1 ".' UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT EASTERN DISTRICT OF LOUISIANA NO. 206-cv-4834 DEBORAH C. DIVISION BRUMFIELD, VERSUS RONALD MITCHELL, ET AL ET AL B-4 Deposition of RONALD MITCHELL, JR., 5131 Bundy Road, Apartment A-20, New orleans, Louisiana 70127, taken in the offices of James Mullaly on Thursday, November 8, 2007. APPEARANCES: BARNES & ROOT Attorneys at Law BY: BETSY J . BARNES, Esqui re BY: RICHARD L . ROOT, Esqulre 631 St . Charles Avenue New Orleans, Louisiana 70130 ATTORNEYS FOR PLAINTIFF ( \, CITY OF NEW ORLEANS Attorneys at Law By: JAMES MULLALY, Esqui re 1300 Perdido Street, Suite 5E03 New orleans , Louisiana 70112 ATTORNEYS REPORTED BY: LINDY ROOT Certified Court Reporter Registered professional Reporter FOR DEFENDANT 650 POYDRAS STREET. SU ITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS, LA 70130 AFFILIATED REPOR TING TECH NOLOGY , INC. OFF ICIAL COUR T REPORTERS Ph. (504) 568-9111 Fax (504) 568-9110 2 DEBORAH C. BRUMFIELD, MITCHELL, RONALD ET AL ET AL JR. VS . RONALD Deposition Taken of on MITCHELL, 8, 2007 November EXHIBIT INDEX 1 Autopsy Report of Danny Brumfield 650 POYORAS STREET, SU ITE 26 10 NEW ORLEANS. LA 70130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY, INC . O FF IC IAL COU RT REPORT E RS Ph . (504) 568-9111 Fax (504) 568-91 10 3 INDEX page, Line Exhibit #1 87 22 EXAMINATION BY MR. ROOT 5 5 650 POYDRAS STREET. SUITE 26 10 NEW OR LEANS. LA 70130 AFFILIAT ED REPORTING TECH NOLOGY, INC. O FF IC IAL COUR T REPORTE R S Ph . (504) 568-9 11 1 Fax (504) 568-9110 4 S TIP U L A T ION It 1S stipulated and agreed by and between counsel for the parties hereto that the deposition of the aforementioned witness is hereby being taken under the Federal Rules of civil procedure, for all purposes, in accordance with law; That the formalities of reading and signing are specifically waived; That the formalities of sealing, certification and filing waived; That all objections, save those as to are specifically the form of the question and the responsiveness of the answer, reserved until deposition, are hereby such time as this may be or any part thereof, used or sought to be used 1n evidence. LINDY ROOT, Reporter, Registered Professional in and certified Court Reporter, State of and for the Parish of orleans, Louisiana, officiated 1n administering the oath to the witness. 650 POYDRAS STREET, SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS, LA 70130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY , INC. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Ph. (504) 568-911 1 Fax (504) 568-9110 5 1 RONALD MITCHELL, JR., 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 after having been first duly sworn by the above-mentioned court reporter, as follows: EXAMINATION BY MR. Q. did testify ROOT: record, please. State your name for the Ronald Mitchell, Jr. A. Q. What is your current occupation? New ' Orleans police officer. 1 s t her e a r an k? Police officer one . okay . How long have you been a police A. Q. A. Q. 12 13 officer? A. since 2003. yea r s. Q. 14 15 16 17 So that should be about four Four and a half years. When did you do your academy training? When? Ye a h . A. Q. 18 19 A. Q. 2 0 0 3, Feb r u a r y . 20 21 February? 2003. A. Q. 22 23 24 Okay. And have you remained employed by the city of New Orleans as a police officer for A. No, that entire time? I haven ' t. 25 650 POYDRAS STREET, SU ITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS , LA 701 30 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY, INC . O FFI CIAL C OU R T R E P O RT E R S Ph . (504) 568-9111 Fax (504) 568-9110 6 1 Q. Okay. When was there a break 1n serV1ce, 2 3 4 if you will? A. January 16 of this year . I came back three weeks ago as a matter I 5 of fact. Q. SO can ' t recall the exact date. 6 7 you left January 16 of this year? sir . regarding that? A. Q. Yes, 8 9 What were the circumstances I A. Q. was involved 1n a domestic dispute . With who? 10 11 okay. Ex - A. Q. g i r 1 f r i end . And what 1S her name? a Mar tin. Mar tin s till res ide 1 nNe w 12 13 14 okay. S Y1 v i A. Q. Doe s Ms. orleans? 15 16 A. Q. Yes. Do you know her address? Not the current address. okay. AS a result of that situation, were actual criminal charges 17 18 19 20 A. Q. there some charges, pressed? A. Q. 21 22 23 24 25 Yes. What were you charged with? simple battery. okay. What was the disposition of those A. Q. 650 POYDRAS STREET. SU ITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS . LA 70130 A FFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY, INC. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Ph . (504) 568-9111 Fax (504) 568-9110 7 1 charges? A. 2 3 4 The first disposition I was found guilty ln city Court. Municipal Court. It was later overturned by state court, and I guess you 5 6 would say amended by the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals. Q. 7 8 9 okay. So that's why I okay . am back at work. A. Q. Did the district attorney then 10 11 decline to retry the case after the reversal? A. Q. 12 13 They appealed the decision and lost. Okay. that. You don't have the case number of Do you? 14 15 16 A. Q. Not on hand. okay. I All right. should have said this from 17 18 19 guess I the get-go. Have you had a deposition before ever? A. Q. A. 20 21 22 23 24 25 Once. okay. civil Okay . And what did that involve? civil matter or criminal matter? Q. A. I was sUlng the orleans Parish school Board . 650 POY DRAS ST REET, SUI TE 2610 NEW OR LEANS. LA 70130 AFFILIAT ED REPOR T ING TECH NOLOGY , INC. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Ph. (504) 568-911 1 Fax (504) 568-9110 8 1 Q. A. When did this occur? It occurred when I was like 14 or 15 years old. The actual incident -- The suit recall probably 2 3 4 occurred probably -- I about 2000. Q. A. Q. 5 something l ike that. injury type suit? 6 7 8 9 A personal Personal okay. 1nJury. gOlng back to having given In case you don't well, depositions before. 10 11 remember what people might have told you at the time, the purpose we are here 1S just because the subject we obviously were not 12 to get information, matter of this suit, there that day, 13 14 15 and so we can only find out information by asking you questions. To that extent , the court reporter 1S 16 17 18 19 20 trying to get information, for her already, because I and it's hard mumble and I but what talk too fast, and that's my bad, we can't do is both talk at the same time . You apparently are a pretty good witness in that you don ' t actually 21 22 23 24 immediately step over and give an answer to a question before I quit talking, but 25 please try to do that because she can only 650 POYDRAS STREET, SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS, LA 70130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY, INC. OF FI C I AL CO U R T REPORTERS Ph . (504) 568?9111 Fax (504) 568-91 10 9 1 take one of us at a time. To the extent that there's ever a question that's human nature to try to uh-huh or uh-uh or maybe shake your head yes or no to indicate an answer, the court 2 3 4 5 6 reporter won't be able to take that down. We want to be sure that the clear. record 1S 7 8 9 So if you would say yes, no, and any ' indications, make sure they are verbal like shaking your 10 11 as opposed to physical, head up and down. A. 0 12 13 kay. 1S Q. The other thing since we do just want if you don't feel free to ask 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 the correct information, understand the question, me to say it again. If I I am happy to do it. talk too fast or I've got a little ear I infection and because I might not talk loud enough, am having problems figuring out there's never a problem how loud to be, 21 22 23 24 A. Q. with you telling me to repeat the question. sound good? Yes. okay. All right. 25 Going back to your employment history. 650 POYDRAS STREET, SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS, LA 70 130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY, INC, OFFICIA L COURT REPORTERS Ph. (504) 568-911 1 Fax (504) 568-9110 10 1 Where were you first when you A. Q. assigned in 2003 2 joined the police force? 3 4 5 6 To the 6th District. What were your duties ln the 6th District? Patrol okay. the streets of New Orleans. Was it a lot of traffic duty or - lots of different things a I A. Q. 7 mean there ' s 8 9 police officer does. 'When you orleans, say patrol the streets of New unit, on a 10 11 on foot, ln your motorcycle? A. I basically answered calls for serVlce. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 When the public calls the dispatchers and the operators, via the Q. they send a call down to us radio and we answer the call. 1 You we r e Yes, Slr . n a p 0 1 ice ve h i c 1 e? A. Q. Wit h you r s elf 0 r wit h a p art n e r ? how many people comes to A. It just depends on work that day. Q. okay. How long were you with the 6th Di stri ct? A. Q. 23 24 25 Approximately two years. And were you at the same now? rank then you are 650 POYDRAS STREET, SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEA~JS , LA 70130 AFF ILI ATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY , INC. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Ph . (504) 568-9111 Fax (504) 568-9110 11 1 A. Q. Yes. okay. And then two years later, where did 2 3 you go after you left the 6th District? A. Q. 4 5 To the COPS unit. Okay. What does COPS stand for? 6 7 8 A. Q. Community oriented police. And how is that particular duty different than the previous duty you had done? 9 10 11 A. Basically we patrol on foot and vehicle. for the housing development So we answer calls service just ln the housing 12 13 Q. development. okay. IS that considered by you within the just a change of job? Is it Or 14 15 department to be a -- Is it a promotion of sorts? 16 17 enhanced duty that you want to be on? how would you Vlew that? A. Basically it is just a transfer. about it. Q. 18 19 20 That's Okay. or was Did anything lead to the transfer, it your request or a supervisor's 21 22 23 24 25 suggestion? A. Q. It was okay. by my request. Any particular reason? A lot of A. They made more money basically. 650 POYDRAS STREET, SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS. LA 70130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY, INC. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Ph . (504) 568?9111 Fax (504) 568?9110 12 1 overtime ln the housing development. Q. 2 3 okay. And you were with the cOPS unit from when you came back? 2005 , including today, A. No, sir . Until 4 after the storm. 5 6 They disband cOPS after the storm, because the projects were not open at that time. Q. 7 8 9 okay. So then after Katrina you worked ln what group? A. Q. 10 11 12 13 The 5 t h Dis t ric t . okay. until And you worked ln the 5th District January of this year, when there was the situation involving the accusation of domestic violence? A. 14 15 16 17 Yes, sir. returned Q. And you said three weeks ago you to duty? 18 19 20 21 22 23 A. Yes, sir . Q. A. Are you still with the 5th District? Right now I ' m at the training academy. have about a month worth of classes. Refresher courses. so on. I have to shoot, drive, I 24 25 Q. A. Are those post courses? Yes, sir. 650 POYD RAS STREET, SU ITE 26 10 NEW ORLEANS, LA 70130 AFF ILIAT ED REPORTING TEC HNOLOGY, INC. O FF ICI A L COU RT REPO R T E RS Ph. (504) 568?91 11 Fax (504) 568-91 10 13 1 2 3 Q. okay. And because of the length of time you have to you had not been employed, re-up your training. A. Q. Is that it? 4 5 6 7 Yes, Okay. sir. When will that be completed? A. Q. No later than next wednesday. okay. That also then entitles you to the state pay once that is 8 9 supplemental completed? A. Q. 10 11 12 13 Yes, s1 r . the ma i n rea son As I' m sur e you are a war e, we are here is to investigate the death of a gentl eman, Danny Brumfi el d, 2005. Sr . , that 14 occurred september 3, 15 16 I would like to bring your attention, if I could, back to the time right -- the 17 18 19 day or two before Katrina. AS the storm was approaching New orleans, what was your personal situation 20 21 22 A. Q. in terms of your family situation? Were you a married man at that time? No, Slr. 23 24 okay. Were you living with anybody or a single fellow? A. I had a roommate . 25 650 POYD RAS STREET. SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS . LA 70130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY , INC. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Ph . (504) 568-9 111 Fax (504) 568-9110 14 1 Q. okay. A fellow officer? Different department. preparations 2 3 A. Q. Another officer. okay. Were there any special 4 taken at the time you were with the cops unit 1n preparation of the storm? A. Ye s . 5 6 7 Just more uniforms, Just getting BOU'S, stuff like that. ready and prepared just 8 9 Q. 1n case the worst happened. okay. What 1S BOU? 10 11 12 A. That's basically like a military style uniform. It have pockets allover. stuff like that. It 1S They just dark blue. 13 14 15 Q. have patches on the top. okay. stuff 1 i ke that. Was there a particular spot where you were assigned to weather the storm as the storm approached? A. Just 1n the housing development. B.W. No. A. Q. 16 17 18 19 20 The AS a matter of fact, Melpomene project. 21 Melpomene. Q. 22 23 24 25 where were you when the storm actually hit? In the project. In the project? Melpomene project. A. Q. A. 650 POYDRAS STREET, SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS. LA 70130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY, INC. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Ph. (504) 568-9 111 Fax (504) 568-9110 15 1 Q. okay. A group of officers had a command 2 center there? A. 3 4 5 6 Yes. And where was that exactly? Second floor on Erato Street. remember the address. I can't Q. A. 7 Q. Okay. Tell me briefly about your 8 9 experience during the storm. ' HOW did you fai r? We had a -- The We 10 11 12 A. well, we did pretty good. lights was out, but we had a generator . So we was all right. stocked up on food. Q. A. 13 14 15 16 Was there any flooding Not at fi rst. ln your area? It came after the storm passed when the levees broke. Q. okay. Right after the storm passed before did y'all go out and 17 18 19 the levees broke, patrol, center? A. Q. or were you staying at the command 20 21 We stayed at the command center. okay . When did you first notice water ln 22 your area? A. Q. 23 24 25 what day? Yeah. If I can recall correct, the next day A. 650 POYDRAS STREET, SU ITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS , LA 70130 AFF ILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY , INC . OFF ICIAL COU R T REPORTERS Ph . (504) 568-9111 Fax (504) 568-9110 16 1 around 1:00 or 2:00. P.m. Q. something like that. 2 3 4 How fast was it rising? Pretty fast. We had to get like some Relocate A. 5 6 7 Q. senior citizens out of there. ourselves. okay. Where did you relocate yourself and 8 the senior citizens? A. The ' senlor citizens we convention Center. Center, Q. A. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 relocated to the Some to the convention and some to the superdome. You drove them there in your squad cars? No. We had other vehicles that we had confiscated from criminals that stole vehicles. Q. 16 17 18 19 Duri n g the s tor m? During the storm. okay. So you loaded those folks up ln A. Q. vehicles and took some to the dome and some to the Convention Center, and then you 20 21 22 23 24 relocated where as a command center? A. To Algiers. We relocated to a church off Meyer and -I of off General cross street. forgot the By the MCDonald's. That was 25 our command post from then on. 650 POYDRAS STREET , SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS , LA 70130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY , INC . OFF I CIAL COU RT REPORTERS Ph, (504) 568-911 1 Fax (504) 568-9110 17 1 2 3 4 Q. From just a day or two after the storm then on? A. Q. Yeah. okay. Can you tell me a little bit about 5 6 how you spent those next couple of days? What sort of things were you doing? A. Q. 7 8 9 patrolling Algiers . okay. What was crlme like ln Algiers during that time? A. 10 11 It wasn't too much . It wasn't too much . For the most part it was some looting going on at that time. Q. 12 13 14 15 16 A. Q. There's a Breaux Mart on General there. Ye s . Was t hat 1 0 0 Meyer Isn't there? ted? I don't recall . 17 18 19 20 A. Q. I'm not sure. Okay. And there was a cvs drugstore also Meyer near there. remember whether that was looted on General DO you 21 or not? A. 22 23 24 I don't recall at all. Q. What was the experience of other officers at the time there in Algiers? Were you under fire? 25 650 POYDRAS STREET. SUITE 2610 NEW OR LEANS. LA 70130 A FFILIAT ED REPORT IN G TECHNOLOGY, INC. OFF ICIAL COURT REPORTERS Ph. (504) 568-911 1 Fax (504) 568-9 110 18 1 Was it a sort of combative situation, or did y'all and it was A. well, feel that you were pretty safe 2 3 kind of a low tension area? just kind of low tension. 4 5 6 7 Algiers was That's about it . Algiers was all Like I said, right after the storm . just light looting gOlng on, a couple of trees in the and power lines 8 9 no flooding, middle of the streets, down . there. Q. 10 11 It wasn't really that terrible over 12 13 14 And you yourself were not patrolling the east bank at all, you stayed in Algiers? A. Q. Ye s . That enti re ti me? Pat r 0 1 1 i n g wi s e, okay. well, any yes. 15 16 17 18 A. Q. did you go over to the east reason? you know, got which I bank for A. Yes. 19 20 when my supervisor, instructed to send the night shift, consisted of, to Q. 21 over to the convention Center 22 23 24 patrol. What day was that? That was the okay. 3rd. the day we are talking A. Q. 25 That was 650 POYDRAS STREET, SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS. LA 70130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY , INC. OFFICIAL COURT REPOR TERS Ph . (504) 568?9111 Fax (504) 568-9110 19 1 about. We 11 gOlng back just a little bit . 2 3 What form of communication did you have at your command center in Algiers with the rest of the police department during the storm? A. well, we had radios. As far as the police 4 5 6 7 8 9 department radios, well at some spots. cell that wasn't working too We also had our own 10 11 12 Q. personal phones that wasn't working too good ln some spots. I s i t f air t 0 say you were not inc 0 n s tan t 13 14 communication or you were in constant commun i cation with the superintendent's office and that command structure? A. W ell, a s a p 0 1 ice 0 15 16 f f ice r, I g u e s s you can 17 18 19 20 say it's the job of the supervisors as far as the captains to be in communication with the superintendent's office, know, do. it comes downhill because, you as far as what we The 21 22 But we kept communication. regular police officers, we kept communication with our supervisors. Immediate supervisors. Q. 23 24 25 Do you personally know whether or not your 650 POYDRAS STREET, SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS, LA 70130 AFFILIAT ED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY , INC. OFFIC IAL COURT REPORTERS Ph. (504) 568-9111 Fax (504) 568-9110 20 1 supervisors were able to talk to each other throughout the city? A. Q. I 2 3 4 5 6 can't recall. How about stories or rumors of what okay . was happening throughout the city that you were hearing at the time? Were you able to 7 hear what other officers were experiencing in other parts of the city? A. Q. 8 9 Not ' really. okay . Were you aware of any gun battles 10 11 that any officers had with anybody since the storm had happened from where you were in Algiers? A. Q. 12 13 14 Ye s . okay . Tell me about that . 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 A. That was only basically face-to-face conversation. said, oh, Not on the radio. somebody they had something that happened on a bridge or they had something that happened somewhere else. You know, that was basically officer to not on the radio. officer contact, Q. I 23 24 got you. I'm not asking you to vouch for the 25 veracity of what you heard. 650 POYDRAS STREET. SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS . LA 70130 A FFILIATED REPORTING TECHNO L OGY , INC. OFFIC IAL COUR T REPORTERS Ph. (504) 568-9111 Fax (504) 568-9110 21 1 2 3 A. Right. I Q. am just trying to figure out what you heard. Can you recall any of the stories that 4 5 6 7 you heard during that time? A. Basically just the bridge incident . about it. That's 8 9 Q. okay. How were you keeping your car gOlng with the power out? A. As 10 far a s gas? 11 12 13 Q. Ye s . A. The b rid g e pol ice, connection, working. C res c e n t cit y they had a pump that was We had to really 14 only like one. 15 16 basically get ln line. At first we was gOlng to like country towns right outside of New Orleans and just 17 18 19 Q. paying for gas. 0 k ay. 20 21 22 23 A. Then we found that the Crescent city Connection had a pump open. a line a mile long, putting gas. So it would be and they started 24 25 Q. who else was on the night shift with you ln Algiers? 650 POYDRAS STRE ET, SUITE 2610 NEW OR LEANS , LA 70130 AFFI LI A TED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY, INC. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Ph. (504) 568-9 111 Fax (504) 568-9110 22 1 You said that the night shift got sent over to do convention Center duty that night of the 3rd, of the 3rd. A. It was my partner, Allen. Q. 2 3 4 or actually the morning 5 6 Ray Jones. officer 7 8 9 Do you know offi ce r A11 en's fi rst name by any chance? A. I'm ' trying to think. See, I we called each mean fi rst 10 11 12 Q. other by our last names . names Sur e . 13 14 15 A. Q. A male or female officer? Mal e . okay. officer Abden. officer Hill. Gregory Hill 16 17 18 19 A. as a matter of fact. I'm not sure of anybody else at this time. Q. 20 21 who told you that they needed you over at the Convention Center? 22 23 24 A. Q. That was sergeant Keith Joseph. How many officers from Algiers besides you and your partner and your unit did you expect to go over to the Convention Center? 25 650 POYDRAS STREET, SU ITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS , LA 70130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY, INC. OFF ICI A L COURT REPORTERS Ph. (504) 568-9111 Fax (504) 568-9110 23 1 A. well, was from what sergeant Joseph told us, it 2 3 supposed to be at least about 30 officers over there. Q. A. 4 All No. from Algiers? From different areas. supposed to go 5 6 7 Q. How many from Algiers were over there? 8 9 A. Just the night shift. the night shift, whoever we had on that lS who he was sending 10 11 over there. Q. SO those officers you going over there, too, just named were all as far as you knew? 12 13 A. Ye s . 14 Q. Tell me "about how you and your partner got 15 16 over there. Did you leave immediately after Sergeant Joseph told you to go? Did he tell time? A. No. 17 18 19 20 you to go at a certain We went over there after he told us 21 to. Q. 22 23 24 Was there an announcement made to the whole night shift? A. well call basically what we had was a roll 25 They called everybody ln, 650 POYD RAS STREET, SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS, LA 70130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY, INC. OFFIC IAL COURT REPORTERS Ph . (504) 568-9111 Fax (504) 568-9110 24 1 and normally we would meet up at the church, there. because a lot of us didn't stay They had police officers staying at but I 2 3 4 the church, there. church, right, personally didn't stay 5 We all came and met up at the us, all 6 7 8 and basically he would tell we have this zone and this zone in and the 4th District had this, Algiers, this, 9 and this. he 10 But this particular time on the 3rd, 11 12 told us that we were supposed to meet other officers on the convention Center to restore order. Q. 13 14 15 16 And this was an announcement made to a group of officers in Algiers after roll call? 17 18 19 A. Q. Yes, Okay. Slr . Where were you staying by the way, since you weren't staying at that church? A. I 20 21 22 was staying with my partner at his Rue Parc Fontaine on apartment in Algiers . General Q. Degaulle. And so the announcement was made restore order you 23 24 okay. that they needed you to said? 25 650 POYDRAS STREET, SU ITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS. LA 70130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY, INC. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Ph . (504) 568-9111 Fax (504) 568 -9110 25 1 A. Q. Basically. At Convention Center Boulevard? Right. We were supposed to get with the and we 2 3 4 A. other officers that was down there, all was supposed to the 5 6 7 restore order and keep it safe for until Q. people that was down there the buses came. 8 9 Was there any specific instructions about how order was not in order? you what was going on that was not I 10 11 how the situation was mean when you say restore order, 12 assume there is something going on that was not as you would like it to be. A. 13 14 15 16 No. He didn't say whether it was chaos or everything was all right. whether it was Not I really. told you when I 17 18 19 20 when we I relocated knew it the was was senior citizens down there, a lot of people down there, but that during the day and this time it was at I 21 22 night. mean I didn't know -- I don't think he knew, but he just said that's the to restore 23 24 reason we was gOlng down there, order and keep order and make sure everybody was safe. 25 650 POYDRAS STREET, SU ITE 2610 NEW OR LEANS , LA 70130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY, INC. OFFIC IAL COURT REPORTERS Ph . (504) 568-9111 Fax (504) 568-91 10 26 1 2 Q. Do you guys have a generator over in Algiers? 3 4 5 6 A. Q. We have generators, yes. Did you have TV's that were going? Yes, okay. I A. Q. would say so. Were you watching any news stories 7 of what was gOlng on? A. Really, recall. Q. 8 9 to tell I you the truth, recall I can't can't r adi 0 watching TV at all. 10 11 How abo u t ? How about listening to A. No radio. I 12 know that for a fact. No radio, 13 14 radio. We were not listening to the because the police cars don't have Most of them. had Q. radios. I 15 16 17 Let me say that. The ones never had any kind of radio ln it. What about at your apartment or at the station? people weren't listening to like WWL or anything like that? 18 19 20 21 22 A. Q. NO, not that I can recall okay. Then tell me about your trip from 23 24 Algiers to Convention Center Boulevard. A. okay. Got ln the car, went on the GNO. We 25 exited at the first exit coming towards the 650 POYDRAS STREET. SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS. LA 70130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY , INC. O FFI CIAL COUR T REP ORTERS Ph . (504) 568-9111 Fax (504) 568-9110 27 1 city . Q. 2 3 4 The Tchoupitoulas exit? Right. So we came down . We started at the end looking for those A. 5 6 7 going to the beginning, officers that we was supposed to meet up with, and I guess have a roll call with I 8 9 some captain. 11m not sure who it lS . but 11m not sure who it know he told me, was. Q. 10 11 At the end, t hat w0 u 1 d bet h e end 0 f 12 convention Center Boulevard farthest away from Poydras? A. Q. 13 14 Yes . okay. Yes. I think thatls Hall Z, 15 16 17 18 A. if 11m not mistaken. So we started at the end and we were going to the beginning, Q. 19 A. 20 21 22 What lane were you driving in? I mean it l s two ways with a median ln the center. 23 24 25 A. Q. Right. Were you ln the lanes closest to the side next to the Convention Center, river or the 650 POYD RAS STREET, SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS, LA 70130 A FF ILIATED REPORTING TECH NOL OGY , INC . O FF IC IA L COURT REPO R TE RS Ph . (504) 568-911 1 Fax (504) 568-91 10 28 1 lanes across the street? A. 2 3 4 Going that way we was kind of in the middle, lS but towards the right lane . That towards the hall itself. 5 6 7 Q. okay . Because of the fact on the left side, which was the driver's side, neutral ground, right, they had a -- the and the people was and it was A. 8 9 like on the neutral g'round, 10 11 close to the driver's side window. So we kind of lagged in the middle, like towards the right lane, because the 12 13 people that was on the convention Center part, you know, where the hall lS 14 at, they 15 16 was kind of lagged back because they was under shelter. that side. Q. So we kind of lagged toward 17 18 19 okay. who was driving? Ray Jon e s . if you can A. Q. My par t n e r, 20 21 22 Was it c1 ear ski es or cloudy, recall? A. I don't recall that at all. I know it was 23 24 Q. dark. okay. Do you remember whether a moon was 25 out or not? 650 POYDRAS STREET, SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS , LA 70130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY , INC. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Ph. (504) 568-9 111 Fax (504) 568-9110 29 1 2 A. Q. Don't okay. remember. Were there any lights 1n the area? 3 4 A. Q. Just the lights of the police car. okay. If yo~ would, continue to tell me 5 6 what is going on as you are at the the hall z end of 1n the lane closest to the hall A 7 8 9 A. heading toward the Center. okay. part of the convention My partner 1S driving. no more than ten. I would say Really 10 going five, creeping. 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 So we are driving down and a lot right side, the you know, of people from the passenger's side were hollering, help us, help us. So my partner was slowing down to probably about one to two and we would get like crowds of people trying to come to the car. So, you know, I instructed my partner feared that 18 19 20 to keep going, because I somebody was going to try to take us out of the car and take the car. So, Q. 21 22 you know, he continued going on. was your vehi cl e 23 24 whi 1 e thi s was goi ng on, equipped with a spotlight on the side of the car? 25 650 POYDRAS STREET, SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS. LA 70130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY, INC. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Ph . (504) 568-911 1 Fax (504) 568-9110 30 1 A. Q. Yes. Was that on or off? That was off. Okay. Any particular reason? or just a decision not 2 3 4 A. Q. 5 6 Was it working, to have it on? A. 7 8 9 We 1 1 real that light bright, right there 1S like real, and if we were to put that on somebody it really would hurt their eyes. I 10 11 know that from exper1ence. The only lights that was on was the 12 headlights, lights on. Q. and we had flashing strobe 13 14 Okay. And if you will continue. just experienced 15 16 You said that you folks trying to gather around the car and So you instructed 17 18 19 20 A. you had slowed down. your partner to speed up? Ye s . So we continued down all Hall Q. the way to 21 A. 22 23 24 25 What speed was he driving now -Approximately Let me finish the question first . About what speed was he driving after A. Q. 650 POYDRAS STREET, SU ITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS , LA 70 130 A FFILIATED REPORT IN G TECHNOLOGY , INC. OFF ICIAL COUR T R EPOR TER S Ph . (504) 568-911 1 Fax (504) 568-9110 31 1 you A. told him to speed up? to ten. We went back to the 2 3 4 possibly five creep mode. Q. okay. Continue. Guard. I I don't just 5 6 7 A. We encountered a National know his name, rank, or nothing. know he was National there Q. A. Guard standing out 8 by his self. 9 10 11 12 What cross street or where? That's by Hall cross street. A. I'm not sure of the Q. 0 k ay . asked him did he see any police officers here, you know, anybody that's with He stated to me, 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 A. I down the no, police department . he was the only one out here . So at that time by me talking to him, a crowd was continuing to come towards the police car. So I instructed my partner Ray to make a U-turn and let's go back across the Q. 21 rlver, because it was unsafe out here. male or 22 okay. female? The National Guardsman, 23 24 25 A. Male . Armed or unarmed? Q. 650 POYDRAS STREET. SUI T E 2610 NEW ORLEANS. LA 70130 A FFILI ATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY, INC. OFFICIAL COUR T REPOR T ERS Ph . (504) 568-9111 Fax (504) 568-9110 32 1 A. Q. A. Q. Armed. What was he armed with? M-16. 2 3 4 okay . Did the guardsman tell you he was 5 6 7 afraid or felt threatened out there by himself? A. Not at all that. Q. He didn't say anything about 8 9 Okay. And then you instructed Strike 10 11 that. Why did you feel that you and your 12 partner were ln danger by the fact that other officers weren't there to meet you for your meet up in accordance with what your supervisor told you to meet down there? A. okay. I 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 felt endangered by the crowd of the people that was comlng towards the car, vehicle, number one. I Number two, felt that we had bad because we information on the meeting spot, was out there by ourselves. something had went on. That's why I 22 23 24 So Some kind of miscommunication 25 instructed Ray to go back 650 POYDRAS STREET, SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS , LA 70130 AFF ILI ATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY, INC. OF FI C I AL COUR T REP O R T ERS Ph . (504) 568-9111 Fax (504) 568-9110 34 1 Q. okay. At that point you were closer to 2 3 4 Poydras. Did you continue on to poydras or did you do something else? A. My partner made a U-turn and went right back the way that we came. Q. 5 6 7 8 9 A U-turn that took you on across the median so you're now on the street side away from convention Center Boulevard, or just like a 10 11 complete 360 where you are going back the same way you came? A. A com p 1 e t e 3 6 0 . We couldn't go on the other side of the street, the right side of the street. you know, They a lot 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 had abandoned vehicles and, of debris ln the over there. Q. road. We couldn't drive Okay. The crowd of people you said that were trying to come towards you as you were talking to the guardsmen, did that include 21 22 23 people in back of your unit? A. peopl e front. Q. 1 n the back, from the si de, 1 n the 24 25 well, when you made your 360, was that, for lack of a better word, in the middle of a 650 POYDRAS STREET , SUITE 26 10 NEW ORLEANS, LA 70130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY , INC. OFFIC I AL COURT REPOR T ERS Ph, (504) 568-9111 Fax (504 ) 568-9 110 35 1 2 A. Q. crowd? No. No. 3 okay. I 4 5 6 A. didn ' t say they was on me, The crowd was I but they were So when I comlng. coming. I noticed that am like -- told Ray, look, 7 just turn around and go back. Q. 8 9 okay. We And how far did you get? A. got to the middle of the convention That's at Churchill . 10 11 Center . Q. What speed were you driving on your way back? 12 13 A. Q. Abo u t okay. f i vet 0 ten. 14 What happened next? 15 16 A. What happened next is we seen a black male jogging towards the car . at each and was like, doing. man, Me and Ray looked what is he 17 18 He kept coming. 19 20 So he came from the Convention Center like, the because the people -- like I said, 21 22 23 24 people were off under the shelter like by the doors of the Convention Center all lined to us. So by the time he came to where you can up. So he had a little ways to get 25 650 POYDRAS STREET, SUITE 26 10 NEW ORLEANS . LA 70130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY, INC. OFFIC IA L COURT REPORTERS Ph. (504) 568-9 111 Fax (504) 568-9110 36 1 park at, right by the street, we noticed he His 2 3 4 was trying arm was up, about to do something. and we noticed he had something So, you know, my partner 1n his hand. 5 6 7 noticed he was trying to jump on the car. I'm like, don't hit him dead on, and I didn't want to because he run over was driving, 8 9 him or nothing or have Ray run over him. 'So Ray swerved to try to, you know, I 10 11 guess make him miss from jumping on the car, Q. A but he didn't . Z 12 s you' red r i v i n g tow a r d s the 1 nth e 13 convention Center Boulevard, from your left? A. Q. he was com1ng 14 15 Yes. 0 16 17 k ay . A. The driver's side. When you first saw him, how far -- well , 18 Q. 19 20 how far was he from your vehicle when you first spotted him? A. 21 Like I said, he was close to the doors of Started 22 23 24 Q. the Convention Center standing up. . . Jogg1ng. okay. I guess what I'm trying to find out being on 25 is how far in front of you versus 650 POYDR AS STREET, SU ITE 261 0 NEW ORL EAN S, LA 70130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY, INC. OFFICIAL COU RT RE P O R T ER S Ph. (504) 568-9111 Fax (504) 568-9110 37 1 your side or in front of -- you know, I am 2 3 4 just trying to get at what angle he was coming towards you. A. He was diagonal from us. That's why Ray left, but he 5 6 tried to swerve towards the adjusted to that. Q. 7 8 How would you characterize his movement towards your car? 9 10 11 A. Q. Aggressive. okay. Let me I understand. Let me make my question better then. I guess I'm trying to figure out trotting, 12 13 whether he was walking, sprinting, I A. Q. 14 slowly runn1ng. how was 0 15 16 mean he approaching your car? Hew ask i n d f jog gin g . notice him because of you 17 18 19 Did you first seeing him or because of something your partner said, A. Q. if you can recall? 20 21 Me seeing him. okay. Did you say anything when you saw 22 23 him to notify your partner that this gentleman was A. We 1 1, and I 1 ike I coming towards you? sa i d, web 0 t h see n him com i n g , 24 25 was like, what do you think he 1S 650 POYDRAS STREET, SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS. LA 70130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY , INC. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Ph. (504) 568-9111 Fax (504) 568-9110 38 1 doing or what is he trying to do . something to that effect. Q. 2 3 4 I'm sorry. Was that what you were thinking or what you said? 5 6 A. Q. said. okay . Did he say anything back to you? but I can't recall 7 8 9 A. He said something, exactly what he said. Q. 10 11 The n what hap pen e d ? Like I Boom. said, Ray stopped and swerved. A. 12 13 14 15 16 The guy jumped on the car cracking I yelled out of the car, the wi ndshi el d. get away from the police car or get away from the car, came something to that effect. He jumped over on my side and lunged 17 18 19 20 at me with what I thought was a knife at the time, but I know it was a shiny object. I fired one shot So ln protecting my life, from the shotgun . Q. 21 okay. okay. Let's back up a bit . 22 23 24 A. Q. Are you saYlng that your vehicle came to a complete stop, and then your partner tried 25 to avoid him by moving to the left or 650 POYDRAS STREET. SUITE 26 10 NEW ORLEANS. LA 70 130 AFFILIATED REPOR T ING TECHNO LOGY, INC. OFFICIAL COU RT REPORTERS Ph. (504) 568-9111 Fax (504) 568?9 110 39 1 right? A. No. 2 He swerved and stopped. 3 4 Q. A. which way did he swerve? Toward the 1 eft. Towards Convention Center Boulevard? Yes. Okay . Did the person Jump onto your hood 5 6 Q. A. Q. 7 8 9 from the side of the vehicle or was he in frorit of the vehicle when he got on top of the hood? A. Q. 10 11 From the side. okay. From the side . 12 13 14 Did he slide from the left to the right across the front of your unit on the front of it? I'm trying to picture what happened . A. 15 16 17 18 19 20 what you mea n b y s 1 ide? I thought you said he jumped on the car . Q. A. He j u mp e don the car. okay . He jumped on the front of the car or Q. the back of the car? A. 21 22 23 24 He jumped on the front I would say front L driver ' s side towards the windshield. his feet were on the windshield wipers . Q. ike Okay. And he was coming from your left, so that's why I said he 25 not from the front, 650 POYDRAS STREET, SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS, LA 70130 AFF ILI AT ED REPORTING TEC HNOLOGY , INC . OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Ph. (504) 568-9111 Fax (504) 568-9110 40 1 jumped onto the hood of your unit from the left-hand side. You said he wound up on the side of the vehicle. A. right-hand 2 3 4 Is that correct? 5 6 7 I wouldn't say that's correct. I would say he jumped on the left side jumped on the police car and moved which would be the right side. He didn't 8 9 to my side, I slide. Q. don't - - He didn't slide. He jumped. And I wasn't there . 1 10 11 Okay. I'm not trying 12 1~ to put words A. Q. n your mouth. Right. I Right. 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 am just trying to figure out from what how this all happened. you are te l ling me, A. Q. Rig h t . I understand he 1S coming from the left. What parts -- You said his feet were where the wipers were? A. Right. That close. That's how the 21 windshield got cracked. Q. 22 23 Were his feet near the wipers on the driver's side or the passenger's side? A. I would say in the middle like , because when he jumped, boom, and then came on my 24 25 650 POYDRAS STREET, SUITE 26 10 NEW ORLEANS, LA 70130 AFFILIATED RE PORTING TECHNOLOGY , INC. OFFIC IAL COURT REPORTERS Ph. (504) 568-9111 Fax (504) 568-9110 41 1 side. He wouldn't like MR. MULLALY: 2 3 4 Actually don't speculate. want to make sure we are not speculating. I don't think I just 5 6 7 anyone -- No one wants to you guess. MR. ROOT: 8 9 NO. MR. MULLALY: 10 11 So just answer as best you can. E X AMIN 12 13 14 AT ION BY MR. ROO T : Q. I guess if his feet were ln the middle where was the upper where the wipers were, 15 16 17 18 part of his body at that time? In other words, what I don't understand is whether he was standing up on the car, whether he was laying across the car. don't understand what his body is doing when you ' re guess, And that's my fault, I I 19 20 21 22 for not understanding you, but that ' s what I'm trying to find out. What physically you remember about the 23 24 way his body was on your vehicle is what I am trying to find out . 25 650 POYDRAS STREET. SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS , LA 70130 AFF ILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY, INC . OFF ICIA L COURT REPORTERS Ph . (504) 568? 911 1 Fax (504) 568-9 110 42 1 A. okay . If I can remember correctly, his 2 body was laying on the windshield towards the middle. were out. His hands were That's how I his hands 3 4 noticed he had Right. That's So boom. right, if I 5 6 7 something ln his hand. Yeah, can Q. that's right. remember correctly. hands were out. Was he spread eagle like this on the 8 9 His 10 11 car (indicating)? I am moving my hands out, left hand to 12 the left and right arm out, a -- like making 13 14 MR. MULLALY: A snow angel. 15 16 17 18 19 20 MR. ROOT: Snow angel. Although we are ln the south. MR . MULLALY: Sand angel THE WITNESS: His arms had a slight bend ln them. EXAMINATION BY MR. Q. 21 22 23 24 25 ROOT: okay. At that point was he laying flat on 650 POYDRAS STREET, SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS, LA 701 30 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY, INC. OFFICIA L COURT REPOR T E R S Ph. (504) 568-911 1 Fax (504) 568-9110 43 1 the vehicle or was -- You know what I'm saying? A. I can ' t say. From what I remember his His body 2 3 4 hands were on the windshield. wasn't flush 1S 5 6 7 8 so like his to say like he His hands doing a pushup or something . was on the windshield, car. his feet was on the So like he was in a stance or Like how you play Similar to 9 something like that. football that. Q. 10 11 and you get down . 12 13 wit h his fee ton the h 0 Fee t okay. s till 0 0 d 0 f the car? A. Q. nth e h 0 0 d . 14 15 The car was continuing to move at that point? A. Q. 16 17 18 Negati ve. okay. It was at a stop . So you are saying your partner stopped once he jumped on the hood? A. He stopped. hood. Q. 19 20 Then the guy jumped on the 21 22 okay. And then he tried to swerve once he was on the hood? A. Q. 23 24 He swerved, okay . Yes . stopped, the guy jumped. So he swerved to try to avoid him? 25 A. 650 POYDRAS STREET, SU ITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS. LA 70130 AFFILIATED REPORTI NG TEC HN OLOGY , IN C. OFFIC IAL COURT REPORTERS Ph . (504) 568-9111 Fax (504) 568-9110 44 1 2 3 4 Q. The guy jumped up on the hood? Yes. Your partner stops the car? Yes. And then the Mr. person we now know lS A. Q. A. Q. 5 6 7 Brumfield then somehow was no longer on the hood of the car. HOW did that happen, A. Q. 8 9 if you know? Jumped down. He 10 j u mp e d . 0 f f ? 11 A. Q. Rig h t okay. 12 13 14 In which direction did he go when he jumped off? A. It would be to his left. left. Q. He jumped to his 15 16 0 k ay. 17 18 19 20 A. which lS the passenger's side window of the police car. Q. okay. We 1 1 tell me how he landed. In what fashion A. Q. he landed physically? his feet. 21 22 23 24 He landed on okay. to the He jumped from the hood of the car right side of landing passenger's -- to the the the vehicle, on his feet? passenger's side, 25 650 POYDR AS STRE ET, SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS . LA 70 130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY, INC. OFFICIAL COURT REPOR TER S Ph. (504) 568-911 1 Fax (504) 568-9 110 45 1 2 3 4 A. Q. Yes. When he landed on his feet, was he facing? As a matter of So what direction A. He was facing my direction. fact, 5 6 we looked each other ln the face. he was turned toward me. Q. 7 8 9 Was he saYlng anything at any time? I A. Q. Not that okay. can remember. So he lands next to your at this jumps off the you. 10 point stationary vehicle, hood, 11 12 lands where he is facing correct? A. Q. 13 14 15 Yes. Was there any moment where there was a -- where you both -- where he stopped and looked at you, or was there a continuous 16 17 movement after he hit the ground? Tell A. W ell, me what happened . 18 19 20 bas i cally when h e hit the g r 0 u n d i t him like and he was a continuous movement for 21 basically he was coming towards me, wasn't that far from me already. Q. 22 23 24 How far was he from the window at the point he hit the ground after jumping off the vehi cl e? 25 650 POYDRAS STREET. SUITE 26 10 NEW ORLEANS. LA 70130 AFF ILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY, INC. OFFIC IAL COURT REPORTERS Ph. (504) 568-9111 Fax (504) 568-9110 46 1 2 3 A. I can't estimate, but I I know he was like I can't tell right by the car. you feet, But I car. Q. mean because I'm not good with that. like right by the 4 just know he was 5 6 7 Let me ask you this then. Without guessing the number of feet, was it close enough that he could touch the 8 9 car ' from where he 1 anded? A. 10 Ye s . He was that close to where I could 11 12 13 Q. have touched him. Let me b a c k u p a s e con d . During this ride up and down convention 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 A. Q. Center Boulevard, armed? Yes. were you or your partner What were you armed with? I was armed with a Glock 40 caliber and a A. Mossberg 12 gauge shotgun. Q. And the Glock 1S your standard issue 21 22 A. Q. weapon? Yes. okay. And you were current at that point so forth with the 23 24 with your testing and department? 25 650 POYDRAS STR EET. SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS . LA 70130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY, INC . OFFICIAL CO UR T REPORTERS Ph. (504) 568?9111 Fax (504) 568?9 110 47 1 A. oh, yes . Every year you have to go on your own requalify. 2 3 personal Q. birthday to 4 5 6 And you were also armed with a Mossberg shotgun? A. Q. That was my own okay. personal weapon. 7 8 9 Describe the Mossberg shotgun . IS it a -- What type of weapon is it? ' pump acti on? A. Q. 10 11 12 Pump acti on . okay. pistol grlp. What is the length? A. Q. I' m not sur e . okay. Fi 13 14 How many shells does it hold? A. Q. ve . What kind of load were you I using? 15 16 okay. A. Winchester. rounds. know I was uSlng Winchester 17 18 19 20 21 Q. I ' m not sure the 0 Wh e the r i twa s b u c k s hot B u c k s hot s . okay . Buck shots. Is that three-inch, DO you r A. Q. A. Q. 22 23 24 two-inch? remember what the If I recall correctly A. I'm not sure . maybe - I 25 don't know . 650 POYDRAS STREET, SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS , LA 70 130 AF FILI ATED REPORTI NG TECH NOLOGY, INC. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Ph. (504) 568-9111 Fax (504) 568-9110 48 1 I sure. Q. can't say. I'm not sure. I'm not 2 3 okay. why were you bringing your personal 4 shotgun on that particular assignment? A. 5 6 well, storm, during the storm -- well, after the and we the city was out of control, 7 were allowed to use what we had to use to Q. 8 9 10 11 wheri you say the city was out of control how did you obtain that information? A. By the looting that was going on. really. Eyesight. Eyesight 12 13 14 15 16 Q. Had you heard anything about the city being out of control from any other officers or any other radio dispatches during that time? A. 17 18 Like I said, not so much the radio. Basical l y eyesight and what officers tell and, other officers, you know, face to face contact, roll call, 19 20 21 when we go to let us supervisors, you know, know what is 22 23 24 gOlng on within the department because every day , if I'm not mistaken, supervisor roll call, they have a and they come back 1S 25 and they let us know what going on out 650 POYDRAS STREET, SUITE 2610 NEW OR LEANS, LA 70130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECH NOLOGY , INC . OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Ph, (504) 568-9111 Fax (504) 568-9110 49 1 there. Q. 2 3 who specifically gave the authorization, you can recall, to use your personal if 4 weapons during this time period? A. Q. 5 6 7 8 9 I can't recall. okay. I can't recall. A. Q. would it have been someone in cops? possibly, yeah . I would guess so. That's A. 10 11 my immediate supervisor. The department was also handing out weapons , too. Q. A. Q. 12 13 14 1~ What was your partner armed with? Jus t a G 1 0 c k 40. okay. At the point that you finished Guard officer , 16 17 speaking with the National where was your shotgun? A. Q. 18 19 20 21 I twa s 1 n my 1 a p . Poi n ted wher e ? Away from my partner. okay. Was it pointed out the window or was A. Q. 22 23 24 it a short enough weapon that it can be on your lap without the barrel side of the vehicle? A. hitting the 25 It wasn't pointed out the window. 650 POYDRAS STREET, SUITE 2610 NEW OR LEAN S. LA 70130 AFF ILI A TED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY, INC. O FF ICIAL COURT REPORT ERS Ph . (504) 568?9111 Fax (504) 568?9 110 50 1 By it being a pistol have a stock to it. to where I grip, it doesn't short enough 2 3 So it is had it on my lap leaning up 4 against the door. Q. 5 6 7 Was your window open or closed? It was okay. 0 A. Q. open. And your partner's window? 8 9 A. Q. pen. why was your window open? the v e hie 1 ewe had was kin d 0 okay. W ell, 10 11 A. f old think and the AC wasn't working right. So we I 12 13 it was making a loud nOlse. didn't Q. just use it at all. Returning to your story. Brumfield jumped off the hood, close enough to touch you, you 14 okay. 15 16 17 18 19 20 So Mr. facing you, have your personal with a pistol the right, weapon Mossberg shotgun lap facing to point pointing grlp on your but not at this out the window. What happens next? A. Q. 21 22 23 24 What happened next -well, Is far let me ask this. everything I said so far correct as 25 as you know in terms of a summation? 650 POYDRAS STREET. SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS. LA 70130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY , INC. O FF ICIAL COURT REPORTERS Ph . (504) 568-9111 Fax (504) 568-9 110 51 1 A. Q. pretty much . okay. that I I 2 3 Anything about that that was wrong said? don't want to put words ln your 4 5 6 7 A. mouth. No. Q. okay. okay. facing So continue. Once me. he jumped off the car he is I 8 9 A. been noticed the which I knife ln his 10 11 12 hand -- well, knife, but we I thought it was a later learned it was grabbed my weapon and picked sClssors. 13 14 15 Q. it up and fired. Was it at that moment that you had something ln his hand when outside your window? Was that when you first noticed that he a weapon? noti ced he he was 16 17 18 19 20 A. had something you thought was No. when he was noticed he running towards the car, his hand. I 21 had something in I when 22 23 24 he jumped on the car, knife, it was was thought it was a I but it was something shiny. something shiny, but I knew thought it 25 a knife. 650 POYDRAS STR EET, SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS. LA 70 130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY, INC. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Ph . (504) 568-9 111 Fax (504) 568-9110 52 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Q. In which hand was it? Left. His left hand? Yes, okay. Mr. Slr. Describe the motion that A. Q. A. Q. Brumfield made towards your vehicle with what you thought was a weapon with the greatest specificity you can. What did you see him doing? A. well, hand his left hand was up. His right 10 11 12 13 14 if I'm not mistaken, was like like he was but basically basically coming at me like pointing but not pointing, arm out towards me. Q. 15 16 17 18 19 20 His Yes. rig h t han d ? A. Q. And hi s 1 eft hand was u P tow a r d s his A. Q. h e ad. okay. me? would you simulate the motion for 21 22 23 24 A. Q. Like this okay. (indicating). And you're holding your arm up in simulating that sort of a 90 degree angle, somebody has something ln their hand? A. Yes, sir. 25 650 POYDRAS STREET, SUITE 2610 NEW OR LEANS . LA 70130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY, INC. OFFICIAL CO U RT REPORTERS Ph . (504) 568-9111 Fax (504) 568-9110 53 1 2 3 4 5 6 Q. Okay. Was that the point where you discharged your weapon? A. Yes. What happened then? I got out of the car. Brumfield? Q. A. Q. A. Did you hit Mr. Yes. 7 8 9 10 Q. A. Where did you hit him? Like up around the left side of his body -upper left side of his body. 11 12 13 Q. A. The n what hap pen e d ? He fell down. I got out of the car to see if he was alive or not. Q. A. 14 15 16 What was your partner doing at the time? His door opened. out or not , but I I'm not sure if he got know his door was open . 17 18 19 20 He drew his weapon. Like I Mr. not. said, I was checking Brumfield to see if he was alive or I'm not sure if he stepped out of the I know his door came 21 car or he stayed In. open, Q. 22 23 24 and I know he drawed his weapon. Did you say anything before or after you shot him? 25 A. Just when he was on the windshield. Before 650 POYDRAS STREET, SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS , LA 70 130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY , INC, OFF IC IA L C O UR T R E POR TE RS Ph . (504) 568-9111 Fax (504) 568-9110 54 1 2 3 4 he jumped on the car, I told him to get away from the police car. Q. After you discharged your weapon, did you say anything to your partner before you got out of the vehicle? A. I don't know. sure. Q. 5 6 Not that I recall. I'm not 7 8 9 okay. So you get out of your car to check Mr. ' Brumfield and what happened? What did you see? A. Q. 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 Nos 1 g n s 0 f 1i f e . And how did you d e t e r min e t hat? I put my two fingers to his throat, the A. side of his throat, pulse. Q. and checked for a okay . How long did that take? seconds. Five to ten. A. Q. Maybe five 18 19 Did you observe an entrance or exit wound ln Mr. Brumfield? but I 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. I couldn't say I observed any holes, So I did see blood. Q. know he was shot. And you said he was wearing what? Jeans and a T-shirt. What type of T-shi rt? Just a plain white T, if I recall A. Q. A. 650 POYDRAS STREET. SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS . LA 70130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY, INC. O FF ICI AL COU RT REPORTERS Ph. (504) 568-9111 Fax (504) 568-9 11 0 55 1 correctly. Q. A. 2 3 4 5 6 Sleeveless or sleeved or do you It was short sleeve. okay. recall? Q. And you did observe that there was blood on the body so that way you knew that he had been hit? A. Q. 7 8 9 Yes, okay. Slr. You stayed by the body five seconds you ' said? A. Q. Ao 10 11 12 1~ Fi vet 0 ten. And then what? okay. The n, 0 ut 0 f now her e, s 0 me bod yin the c row d starts shooting. Q. 14 15 Was anybody saying anything that happened? right after 16 17 18 A. well, we heard like the crowd screamlng and but like I said I I heard stuff like that, several real Q. shots ln that area . mean it was 19 20 close. I know a lot of things are but I'm trying to figure out the okay. 21 22 23 24 happening, time frame of everything. Is it within seconds of you examining the body that you hear shots, or was it a 25 greater passage of time than that? 650 POYDRAS STREET. SUITE 26 10 NEW OR LEANS. LA 70 130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY , INC . OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Ph . (504) 568-9 111 Fax (504) 568-9110 56 1 A. Negati ve. pulse. It was when I was taking the 2 3 4 5 6 7 Q. Q. okay. Within that five to ten seconds of me heard shots. range time as an A. taking the pulse I Okay. And you put ln officer. A. Q. correct? 8 9 Yes, Okay. Slr. Did you have any previous career in 10 11 A. Q. the military of any type? Ye s . Okay. in? A. Q. 12 What branch of the service were you 13 14 Lou i s ian a Nat ion a 1 G u a rd. okay. When did you enter the guard? 1 15 16 A. Q. len t ere d the g u a r d Okay. No. n '93. 17 18 19 How long were you with the guard? I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Not '93. A. '97. Q. 20 21 okay. are How long were you with the guard, with the guard? or you still I'm not. I 22 23 24 A. No, got out of the guard in '95. Right before the storm. Q. Right before the storm. 25 You mean 20057 650 POYD RAS STR EET, SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS , LA 70130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY , INC. OFFIC IAL COURT REPORTERS Ph . (504) 568-9111 Fax (504) 568-9110 57 1 A. 2005. storm. I'm sorry. 2005 right before the 2 3 4 Q. A. Q. What was your E- 3 . rank ln the guard? That's a specialist. What weapons did you use ln the 5 6 okay. guard? 7 8 A. M-16, M-60, Saw 203, all different types of hand grenades, Q. stuff like that. 9 10 11 Other than your Mossberg shotgun and your service Glock 40, what other personal weapons do you have? A. An A K 4 7, a Rug e r Min i 1 4, a G1 0 c k 3 5, a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 Ruger 9 millimeter, I Q. a 357 Taurus. think that should be it. of those at the time of the Did you own all storm? Katrina? A. Q. Yes. okay. So you're familiar with a wide Is that correct? variety of weapons. A. Q. 20 21 22 Yes . From your time at the personal range and your did that glve you gun ownership, 23 24 25 A. some idea of what kind of weapons you heard fi ri ng that ni ght? well, that's -- All right. That's 650 POYDRAS STRE ET, SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS , LA 70 130 AFFILIATED REPORTIN G TECHNOLOGY, INC. OF F ICIAL COU RT R EPOR T ERS Ph. (504) 568-9111 Fax (504) 568-9110 58 1 difficult. jUdge. Q. That's kind of difficult to 2 3 4 But I mean can you tell the difference between a 22 and a 357? A. 5 6 Ye s . You can tell the difference between Different calibers. the different sizes. 7 Let me say it like that. Q. A. 8 Right. Yeah. that difference. 9 10 11 You ' can tell Q. SO what's your best guesstimate? I mean -- And understand, I'm not 12 13 14 15 16 holding you to that -- but what kind of weapon did you think was going off? Any idea? A. A semi-automatic handgun. Something of that Q. A. Like 9 or 40. range. 17 18 Did you observe any muzzle flash? No. 19 20 21 22 Q. Did anyone in the crowd say anything, do anything because of this other weapon gOlng off? A. Ye s . What? Scream. Did anybody say anything like help me, save 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. 650 POYDRAS STREET. SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS . LA 70130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY, INC . OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Ph. (504) 568-911 1 Fax (504) 568-9110 59 1 me, with A. Q. or was there just a scream associated hearing the gunshots? 2 3 4 Yes. okay. And at that point you did what, you 5 and your partner? A. Q. 6 7 Retreated. okay. You both returned to your vehicle? relocated to 8 9 A. Returned to the vehicle and the ' top of the GNO B ri dge. 10 11 12 Q. Okay. So you continued down convention Center Boulevard? A. Q. Yes, s1 r . 13 In the same lane that you had come down from 14 15 16 A. Q. z to A, now you are going the other We continued to go towards di recti on? No. z. ramp 17 18 19 20 21 Right. I mean when you first came off the you went from z to A, and now you are gOlng back the other way? A. Q. Correct. Yes. 22 23 24 What speed were you gOlng at that point? At that point we was because I probably I can only A. estimate, Q. wasn't driving. 25 Sure. 650 POYDRAS STREET. SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS , LA 70130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY, INC. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Ph . (504) 568-9111 Fax (504) 568-9110 60 1 2 3 4 A. Q. I would say 20. And then you at that point entered Okay. the ramp taking you up to the top of the expressway? A. Right. us Q. 5 6 We went towards the ramp that took up to the GNO Bridge. And went where? I 7 okay. where? mean stopped 8 9 10 11 12 A. We stopped on the bridge to get a signal because that was like the only place that we knew of at the time that we could get a good strong signal, and that was on real 13 14 Q. top of the 1 s t his for radio? A. Q. bridge Slnce we were so far up. ace 1 1 ph 0 n e 0 r for you run it's 15 16 Cell okay. you ph 0 n e . What about your radio? why weren't 17 18 19 uSlng the unit's I radio? the r ad i 0 A. L ike sa i din the beg inn i n g, s 20 21 Q. were okay. not working properly -- 22 23 24 A. Q. at that time. Okay. why didn't you stay at the scene to investigate who was shooting? A. Because at that time we were I 25 felt like 650 POYDRAS STRE ET, SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS , LA 70130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY , INC. OFFICIAL COURT REP ORT ER S Ph. (504) 568-9111 Fax (504) 568-9110 61 1 we was being shot at. So we had to 2 3 4 relocate to make sure we survived basically. I feared for me and my So we had to get out of partner's life. there. Q. 5 6 7 well, am I correct you didn't hear bullets Right? too. I knew the shots were go by you. A. 8 9 That's kind of hard, 'I he a r d s hot s . 10 very close. Q. 11 12 13 There 1S a sound of bullets -- Are you familiar with the sound of a bullet going by you at all? A. Q. 14 15 16 17 18 Not a t a l l . No? Not a t a l l . Other than the bang or retort of a weapon, did you hear anything else that would indicate to you that you had just been missed by a bullet? A. Q. 19 20 21 22 23 A. I can't say that, been shot at so because I've never have Q. okay. Was one of your tasks to protect the 24 numerous innocent civilians who were staying at convention Center Bouleva r d? 25 650 POYDRAS STREET. SU ITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS , LA 70130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY, INC. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Ph. (504) 568-911 1 Fax (504) 568-9110 62 1 2 Was that one of your charges as an officer that night? A. Q. 3 4 5 6 That 1S correct. If there was a threat due to an armed person at the convention Center, threat also existed to all children, that of the women, 7 8 9 and elderly that were at the Correct? Convention Center . A. well, I had the reasonable SUsp1C10n to 10 11 believe that we were the only -- the guys what Q. I whoever was shooting at us, believe personally. that's 12 13 14 were you guy s we a r 1 n g v est s ? I can t I A. r e call. 15 16 17 Q. Were you issued vests during that time period? A. Q. Yes. okay. I 18 19 20 may have asked you this . Were you wearing your sou's or your uniform shirt? A. Q. 21 22 23 24 SOU uni fo rm. Okay. 00 you recall generally when you wore your SOUlS whether you were wearing your vest or not? A. 25 Normally under regular circumstances, yes. 650 POYDRAS STREET, SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS , LA 70130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY, INC . OFFICIAL COURT REPOR TERS Ph. (504) 568 -91 11 Fax (504) 568-91 10 63 1 Q. Okay. Because we are okay. required to wear our vests. partner then retreat to phone 2 3 4 A. Q. You and your the top of the bridge where the cell 5 reception 1S better and do what? A. 6 7 8 9 called the superV1sor. who I called? Q. A. Q. called. With your personal cell phone? okay. 10 11 A. If I'm not mistaken. c ell ph 0 n e Ius e'd . I'm not sure whose If it was mine's or my I can't say. cell 12 partner's. Q. I'm not sure. 13 14 okay. But one of your two personal phones was used to make the call than your A. Q. rather 15 16 17 18 radio? yes. Ye s . okay. One of the officer's phones, And who did you call? A. Lieutenant Norwood. And where was Lieutenant Norwood physically 19 20 Q. stationed at the time? A. Q. 21 With Okay. oak us on General So he is Meyer. I think it's 22 23 24 25 back at the park Baptist Church? not sure. I live 1n Algiers. A. Q. I'm okay. 650 POYDRAS STREET, SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS , LA 70130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY , INC. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Ph . (504) 568-9111 Fax (504) 568-9110 64 1 MR. MULLALY: That's become obvious. 2 3 4 5 6 EXAMINATION BY MR. Q. ROOT: I am familiar with that church. At any rate, he 1S back at the church on cable and General A. Q. Meyer? 7 8 9 She . She. I'm sorry. 'What is her fi rst name? A. Q. 10 Gwe n . okay. Were you able to ph0 ne . ph 0 n e? reach her? 11 12 13 14 A. Q. 0 n her c ell 0 n her cell Yes. A. Q. 15 16 17 18 19 20 Do you know what that number was by any chance? A. I'm not even sure. a departmental cell If I am correct, it was phone. Q. okay. time? What service were you with at the 21 Sprint, A. Q. verizon? 22 23 24 25 Nexte1, Was Yes. okay. I believe. it one of those walkie-talkie phones? A. Q. But you weren't using the 650 POYDRAS STREET. SU ITE 261 0 NEW ORLEANS . LA 70 130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY , INC . OFFICIA L COURT RE POR TE RS Ph . (504) 568-9111 Fax (504) 568-9 110 65 1 walkie-talkie, you were uSlng the actual 2 phone to make the phone call? A. Q. 3 4 Yes. okay. And what did you say when you got 5 6 7 ahold of -- Is it lieutenant? A. she was a lieutenant at the time. captain now. Q. 0 she's a 8 9 10 11 kay. that I and A. Basically I told her what happened, had to shoot a guy to defend myself, basically just asked her what we need to do and so on, because I had never been So I didn't 12 13 14 involved ln a police shooting. know the process of it. 15 16 17 Q. she basically took care of everything. Did you tell She asked this her the person was dead? I believe but Don't quote me on I don't know. A. 18 19 I'm not sure, So I I'm not sure. Q. can't answer that. 20 21 22 23 Did she have any discussions with your partner? Did you hand the cell partner? Did she have any questions for him? phone to your 24 25 A. If I'm not mistaken officer Hill talked to 650 POYDRAS STREET. SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS , LA 70 130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY, INC. OFFICIAL COU RT REPORTERS Ph . (504) 568?91 11 Fax (504) 568-91 10 66 1 2 her, too . That was about it I think. It The conversations weren't too long. was not too long. We just got the 3 4 notification of return to Harrah's casino. No. The return to Algiers. reached Algiers, the Meyer 5 6 7 Once we supervisors were on cable and General at the church. Q. 8 9 10 11 who ' was that? T hat was 5 erg e ant 5 u mmer s . okay. Yes. That's the supervisor? That's a sergeant. That was our A. Q. 12 13 A. sergeant. Q. 14 15 16 okay. So you got to the church, got out of your vehicle, there, A. well, went into the command center and there was your sergeant? we stayed outsi de, and 5e rgeant 17 18 19 20 Summers and Captain Kelly got out of their vehicles, happened, casino. Q. and we then got in detail and then we of what relocated to Harrah's 21 22 23 24 25 How long did you stay ln Algiers before you headed back across to go to Harrah's? A. Q. Not a good five minutes. okay. And who went to Harrah's? 650 POY DRAS STREET, SUITE 26 10 NEW ORLEANS, LA 70 130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY , INC. O FF IC IAL COUR T RE POR TERS Ph . (504) 568-91 11 Fax (504) 568-91 10 67 1 A. Q. The whole COPS unit okay. and the supervlsors. Okay . This is not just the night shift as 2 3 A. Q. 4 5 6 this point -- Is it just the night shift? A. Q. The night shift, okay. When you right. returned to Algiers, all 7 8 the people who you thought were going to be meeting you there were still Algiers? A. Q. 9 10 11 back at No. No? No. 12 13 A. Q. 14 okay . All Where were they? Just this See, everybody 15 16 17 18 A. right. gets this kind of mixed up though. When the supervisor sent us down there, it was only one, maybe six. Q. two, three, four, five, 19 20 The names I gave your earlier. Sure. Grego ry Hi 11, offi ce r Abden. you know , 21 22 A. They were ln another truck, 23 24 Q. A. patrolling the Convention Center. They were ln a truck? Yes. 25 650 POYDRAS STRE ET, SUITE 2610 NEW OR LEANS, LA 70130 AFF I LIATED REPORTING TECH NOLOGY, INC. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Ph. (504) 568-9111 Fax (504) 568-911G 68 1 Q. A. Had they made it over there? Yes, they had. 2 3 4 Q. A. Q. A. Were they there while you were there? Yes, they were. 5 6 Where were they? They was -- All first. right. We pulled off I 7 8 9 They pulled off can't say when they pulled off, but we pulled off first . So we actually got there before they got there. Q. A. 10 11 0 k ay . 5 12 13 a w hen we mad e i t t a the Nat ion a 1 Gua rd, they were coming up. Q. A. Q. 14 15 16 SO they were back at the well, okay. I z part of the back. waul dn ' t say that far They were somewhere ln the middle? 17 18 19 20 A. Somewhere in the middle. okay. Your vehicle passed that truck on Q. the way back then? A. Q. Right . uh-huh Basically made a U-turn. (affi rmative response) . So they 21 22 23 24 A. Coming back they made a U-turn. was like far behind us. Like by the time like at Hall we got to the middle, B, they was 25 so they was back there by that National 650 POYDRAS STREET. SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS. LA 70130 AFFILIATED REPOR T ING TECHNOLOGY, INC. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Ph. (504) 568-9111 Fax (504) 568-9110 69 1 Guard like between A and B . Q. SO 2 3 4 they were - - Their truck was ln back of your unit? A. Q. Yeah. okay . A little ways. A couple of blocks. you 5 6 But when you made your U-turn, were going toward each other at some point? A. Q. 7 8 9 You could say that . okay. Were they in the same lane as you the lane closest to the because the other side had ' been, 10 11 convent i on Center, was blocked with cars? A. I ' m not sure to tell not sure. Q. 12 13 14 you the truth. I'm I ' m trying to figure out how you Did you 15 16 17 18 19 20 A. pass that truck then on your way back up to the top of the No. bridge then? behind us. They was Q. okay . You are talking about after you came back from Algiers they were ln a truck? A. Wait. Wait . 21 22 23 24 Q. Can you state that again? You are confusing me. okay . MR. Here is where I MULLALY: Does he know this firsthand , or am confused. 25 650 POYDRAS STREET, SUI TE 2610 NEW ORLEANS , LA 70130 AFF ILI A T ED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY , INC, O F F IC IAL COURT REPORT ER S Ph . (504) 568-9111 Fax (504) 568-9110 70 1 did he learn this later? That might be EXAMINATION BY MR . Q. 2 3 4 ROOT: okay. first. Let me figure out the time period 5 6 7 The fellow officers from COPS from the Algiers command post who were supposed to join you and meet you at Convention Center Boulevard that morning, did they actually 8 9 10 11 go to Convention Center Boulevard that night? A. Q. 12 Ye s . Okay. Were they there at Convention Center 13 14 Boulevard the same time that you and your partner were there that the shooting occurred? A. Q. 15 16 17 18 19 20 Yes . They were ln a truck that was behind your car that you were not aware of . Your unit. At the time you were there , you weren't aware that they were behind you though? A. well, I knew they was on Conventi on Cente r, 2i 22 23 but I didn't know exactly -Q. 24 25 0 h, you did n ' t? that they still was parked I mean A. 650 POYDRAS STREET, SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS, LA 70130 AFF ILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY , INC. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Ph. (504) 568-9111 Fax (504) 568-9110 71 1 still by the National Guard or not. because I I 2 3 wasn't sure of that, wasn't really looking behind me to see where they were. Q. I 4 5 6 thought you said when you went there you wanted to meet some officers and you couldn't find them. You are talking about officers other than the COPS officer? A. Q. 7 8 9 10 11 Ye s . 0 Yes . k ay . 12 A. It was supposed to be about 30 officers we were supposed to go and join. 13 14 Q. 0 k ay . 15 A. Because the night shift 1S not just two people. 16 17 Q. okay . Me and my partner. six of us. that . It was at least about something like 18 19 20 A. six or seven. 21 Q. SO your unit goes all the National the way to A, meets 22 Guardsman, does the 360, 23 24 com1ng back the other direction. somewhere in the middle of Convention Center is where you met Mr. Brumfield and 25 650 POYDRAS STR EET, SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEA NS, LA 70130 AFF ILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY, INC. OFFIC IAL COURT REPORTERS Ph. (504) 568-9111 Fax (504) 568-9110 72 1 the incident occurred. A. Q. correct? 2 3 4 Yes, sir. the other vehicle, the truck At that point, filled with the other COPS officers was where? A. Q. 5 6 7 I'm not sure. They were behind you so they were I don't know if they was at Z or did they ramp yet. I am not sure. We 8 9 A. come off the Like I 10 11 12 said, we left before them. got in the car and pulled off before them. I don't know if they left directly after us or a minute or two after us. down there. A. 13 14 We made it Like I said, we went from z to 15 16 17 18 19 Now, I didn't notice them until I think we turned around or made the 360, but I So I know they was supposed to be coming. knew they was comlng anyway. Q. 20 21 But you did notice them in the area though? Yes. okay. Once we made the U-turn. okay. Once you made the U-turn, you A. Q. 22 23 24 A. Q. 25 noticed them? 650 POYDRAS STREET, SUITE 2610 NEW OR LEANS , LA 70130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY, INC. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Ph . (504) 568-9 11 1 Fax (504) 568-9 11 0 73 1 2 3 4 A. Q. Yeah. okay. well, Where were they ln relation to you? like I said, A. when we made the U-turn, we was at A by the National Q. Guard. 5 6 Right. They had to have been towards middle. us. They was coming A. 7 8 Had to have been ln the 9 Q. A. Okay. 50 10 the y was n 't 1 ike 0 nus 1 ike rig h t the r e 11 12 13 Q. by us. Okay. And then you continued to drive away you from Poydras toward the bridge until were ln the middle? A. Q. 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 Rig h t . At t hat poi n t I'm not sure. wher ear e the y? I can't say, because I A. wasn't paYlng attention. Q. okay. 50 at the time you decide to leave somewhere around you though is the area, 21 this truck with the other four or five officers ln it? A. 22 23 24 25 Correct. Did you attempt ln any way to contact that veh i cle and those officers about what had Q. 650 POYDRAS STREET, SU ITE 2610 NEW OR LEANS, LA 70130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY , INC . O F FICIAL CO UR T REPORTE RS Ph , (504) 568-9111 Fax (504) 568-9 110 74 1 just happened? A. Q. 2 3 4 5 6 7 Yes. How? Before we got on the side of us. were fired. They wasn't aware -- At that time they wasn't aware of the shooting. know, basically I A. ramp they pulled on They also heard the shots that 8 9 So, you told them what happened. 10 11 Q. w hen did you tel 1 the m what hap pen e d ? Right by the exit. I A. mean the on ramp to 12 go towards the bridge. Q. 13 14 After the shooting and before you went to the top of the bridge to get your cell phone signal? 15 16 17 18 A. Q. Rig h t . You told them that there had been a shooting? 19 20 A. Q. Rig h t . okay . So the first time you saw that 21 vehicle was when you saw them at the foot of the A. Q. 22 23 24 ramp before you went back up? No. No? 25 A. when they was comlng do wn. I told you when 650 POYDRAS STREET, SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS. LA 70130 AFF ILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY , INC . O FF ICIAL COURT REPORTERS Ph . (504) 568?9111 Fax (504) 568-91 10 75 1 we made the down. Like I 360, I noticed them com1ng 2 3 already said, I knew they was 4 supposed to be there because they was coming. Q. 5 But we pulled off before them. 6 7 8 9 0 kay. 360, that was when I A. So when we made the noticed them coming down. ' So we conti nued, and I don't know if 10 11 they stopped and talked to the guardsmen. All was I know 1S the next time we seen them we ramp. because they was and I was like, you 12 by the on 13 14 They heard the shots, like, yeah, know, hey, you heard that, I 15 16 17 whatever. I just told them that, got involved 1n a shooting. It was a 108 shooting. So we had to go up on the 18 19 20 bridge to get a signal. Q. I guess what I am to trying find out 1S if had made it off the ramp when their vehicle 21 you were now doing the 360? Had they made it onto convention Center Boulevard? A. Q. 22 23 24 Yeah. Okay. of course. If they are of course. heading towards you and 25 650 POYDRAS STRE ET. SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS. LA 70130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY, INC. OFF ICIAL COURT REPORTERS Ph . (504) 568-9111 Fax (504) 568-9 110 1 2 3 you're heading towards them, don ' t 76 you pass them at some point on your way? A. Q. At some poi nt, okay. yeah . Yeah. 4 And at what point was that? D, C, 5 6 A. Q. probably at Hall Okay. something like that. 7 8 9 A. Q. Before they got to the National Okay. Guard. And at that point though you were officers aware that there were additional in that area? A. 10 11 I was aware that they made it there . knew they was coming. I 12 13 Q. W ell, i f you saw the t rue k and the 0 f fie e r s 14 15 they were there? A. Q. Right. Right. thought the best move was to 16 17 18 But you still leave the area? A. Q. Cor r e ct . okay. So any discussions you had with that 19 20 21 22 vehicle were you stopping and talking to them and not by dispatching your not by cell A. Q. radios and phone? 23 24 It wasn't working down there like that. Okay . But it is true you did stop and talk 25 to that vehicle? 650 POYDRAS STREET, SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS, LA 70130 A FFILIATED REPORTI NG TECHNOLOGY, INC. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Ph . (504) 568-911 1 Fax (504) 568-9110 77 1 2 3 4 A. Q. For a second or two. And spoke to who specifically, remember? if you A. I'm not sure. I think officer Allen was and officer Hill was 5 6 sitting in the front sitting in the back on the passenger's side. I know they had the windows So I was rolled 7 8 9 down when I was talking. basically talking to everybody ln the truck. Q. 10 11 12 13 Was that one of those commandeered trucks you talked about earlier? A. Q. Ye s . 14 15 what t y p e 0 f t r u c k? I believe it was A. It was a four-door truck. a chevy 1500 four-door. 16 17 Q. Like a crew cab? Ye s . 18 19 20 A. It was four doors. So it wasn't like no little extended cab. Q. okay . And that truck had returned that truck when 21 22 switching gears a little bit, then y'all A. returned to Algiers with y'all went back? 23 24 Yes. And then after five minutes y ' all all went 25 Q. 650 POYDRAS STREET, SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEMJS , LA 70130 AF FI LIATED REPORTING TECHNO L OGY, INC. O FFICIAL COU RT RE POR T ERS Ph . (504) 568-9111 Fax (504) 568-9110 78 1 back to Harrah's? A. Q. 2 3 4 Harrah's Casi no, okay. yes. And who did you see at Harrah's? I talked to A. I didn't see anyone. Lieutenant Roussel 5 6 7 8 9 and explained to him what was going on while captain Kelly, Lieutenant Norwood and No. captain Kelly and Sergeant Summers went to talk to the ' chief. I ' m not sure what chief she talked to, but I personally seen chief Warren Riley. know if chief Compass was there or but 10 11 12 I don ' t not. 13 14 I'm not sure of any other ones, seen there. that ' s who I Q. 15 16 17 18 19 20 How long did you stay at Harrah's? Ago 0 d 2 0 t Okay . 0 A. Q. 30m i nut e s . Then what happened next? I think we had They assembled A. They assembled a SWAT team. like three or four teams. one of them, to the scene. and we all went back out there 21 22 23 24 Q. Was this the SWAT team that was staying at Harrah's, or they got somebody from another location to come to Harrah's? A. They was at Harrah's at the time . 25 650 POYDRAS STR EET, SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS , LA 70130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY , INC . OFF IC IAL COU RT R E PO RTER S Ph . (504) 568-9111 Fax (504) 568-9110 79 1 Q. Was that one of your command centers? Yes. okay. We Then what happened? SWAT and 2 3 A. Q. 4 A. relocated back to the scene. 5 6 7 some of the cOPS units formed a perimeter around the scene and us. middle of the scene. Q. I am ln the 8 9 How many vehicles did they have with them? I' A. Q. m ' not sur e . 10 11 what kind of lighting did they bring to the scene, if any? 12 13 A. Q. Jus t 0 k ay the pol ice 1 i g h t s . . They had flashlights out 14 A. And flashlights. there . 15 16 17 18 Q. okay. And what occurred then? I ' m A. Someone asked me was this the person . not sure who it was. 19 20 21 Q. So mel awe n for c e men t Yes. okay. Was this the person. per son n e 1 ask e d you? A. Q. 22 23 A. They had something and I over him and they pulled the bag, said, Q. 24 yes , that's him . And it was confirmed that the person 25 okay. 650 POYD RAS STREET, SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS, LA 70130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY, INC. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Ph. (504) 568-9111 Fax (504) 568-9110 80 i 2 3 4 was deceased at that point? A. Q. As far as I mea n What you mean by confirmed? A. Q. He wasn't movlng or anything, okay. NoW, I no. 5 6 realize that you said you had spent a couple of seconds checking his pulse right after the shooting, but I 7 8 assume that they also confirmed that he had died? A. We 1 1, 1 i ke, 9 10 11 a g a in, I s aid - - What you mea n by confi rm? I can't say that, because I'm not sure 12 13 what they did. Q. 14 15 okay. No. okay. MR. Well, did they remove the body? A. Q. 16 17 18 19 20 why? MULLALY: I that . don't know if he can answer THE WITNESS: I can't answer that one at all. ROOT: or did you hear any 21 22 23 24 EXAMINATION BY MR. Q. okay. Do you recall instructions from any rank above you what to do or not to do with the body that was 25 650 POYD RAS STREET, SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS, LA 70130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY , INC . OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Ph. (504) 568-9111 Fax (504) 568-9110 81 1 there? A. I heard Captain Kelly notify Chief Compass radio. And what did he say to Chief 2 3 on the Q. 4 okay. 5 Compass? A. she explained what happened, asked for EMS on the and she also 6 7 8 9 radio and the coroner's office and stuff like that. Q. Did you hear Chief compass' No, I did n ' t . Whose radio? reply? 10 A. Q. 11 12 okay. A. Q. Cap t a inK ell y , s . Captain Kelly had a unit with a working radio? 13 14 15 16 A. Maybe. had. I'm not sure what kind of unit she 17 18 Q. Her radio worked. 0 h, I' m s 0 r r y . 19 20 Was this A. Q. just a hand radio? Yes, okay. sir. The type of radio where you could but 2l 22 23 24 hear the conversation gOlng one way, not hear the A. well, replies? radio down. So I she had the 25 couldn't actually hear her or what was said 650 POYD RAS STR EET, SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS. LA 70130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY, INC. O FF ICIAL CO UR T REPORTERS Ph . (504) 568-9 111 Fax (504) 568-9110 82 1 back to her . Q. 2 3 4 okay. Because they have a volume button. guess she felt I stuff. So I A. that she had to lower it . That 1S 5 6 7 Q. don't know. So I supervisor's you. if couldn't tell okay. What was the crowd doing, during this time? No sound . 8 9 anything, A. Q. Nothing at all. The 0 10 11 f f ice r s a t the s c e n e, did the y all have drawn weapons to secure the perimeter? A. Ye 12 13 14 s. Q. How long was the investigation of the scene, if you will, under way? 15 16 How long did they investigate the thing? A. Q. 17 18 I'd estimate maybe an hour or so. okay. Well, And during this time you were where? for abo u t 5 t 0 19 20 . A. 2 ? min ute s I was 0 n scene by the body. Q. 21 22 23 24 okay. After I identified the person that I shot , Me and A. they told me to go sit in the car. my partner . 25 My partner was doing the perimeter with 650 POYDRAS STREET, SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS . LA 70130 A FFI LI AT ED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY, INC. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Ph. (504) 568-9111 Fax (504) 568-9110 83 1 2 3 Q. the tac unit. Okay . Did you observe any civilian witnesses speaking with anyone from the department at that time? A. The only witnesses females Q. I 4 5 6 did observe were two that came out of the crowd. And who were they talking with? 7 Okay. 8 9 A. Q. Lieutenant Roussel. okay . NO. Did you speak to them at all? 10 A. 11 12 13 Q. Did you hear anything they were saYlng to Lieutenant Roussel? A. Q. A. Q. No. 14 15 0 r w hat hew ass a y 1 n g t o t hem? No. 16 okay. Then at some point ln time you and 17 18 your partner were ln a car away from the scene? A. W ell, we was s til 1 0 19 20 nth esc e n e jus t 1 n a vehicle. Q. 21 okay. And then what happened? they finished. seen was somebody 22 23 24 A. We stayed there until The only thing taki ng pi ctu res. I 25 Q. Was it still dark or was it light at that 650 POYDRAS STREET, SUI TE 2610 NEW ORLEANS , LA 70130 AF FI LIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY, INC . OFFIC IAL COURT REPORTERS Ph . (504) 568-9111 Fax (504) 568-9110 84 1 point? A. Q. 2 3 It was still okay. dark. who was taking pictures? 4 5 6 7 A. Q. Detective Kelly. Then after the investigation was over, happened? what A. They left the body. al ready in the car, We got and we I I was don't know 8 9 if we went back to Harrah's or we went back to Algiers. because I was Q. 10 11 I'm not sure right after that, really exhausted. 12 okay. Approximately how many law personnel were at 13 14 enforcement officers, that investigation scene do you think? A. 15 16 17 18 At 1 e as t okay. there, 15 to 20. Q. And as to why the body was left you don't know, I would have to ask a supervisor? A. 19 20 21 I SO c 0 u 1 d n 't tel 1 you . you return -- Were you done with your Q. shift after that? Did they send you back to your apartment? Did you continue some duty that night? What went on? 22 23 24 25 650 POYD RAS STREET, SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS , LA 70130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY , INC. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Ph, (504) 568-9 11 1 Fax (504) 568?9 11 0 85 1 2 3 A. Q. I think that was it for the night. restricted duty at any Were you put on any point after that? 4 A. No. 5 6 Q. Ever? Yes. okay. When? A. Q. 7 8 9 A. It was like two months or two and a half months after. 10 Q. Okay. And how did that come about? understand? who told you 11 12 13 What did you that there was a change in your job duties because of that? A. okay. After they busted up the cOPS unit, I 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 most of us moved to the 4th District. was at the 4th District for one day, transferred to the and then I the the 5th District with So we all had rest of the COPS unit. 5th District . Even the captain and the 5th District . That's a I lieutenant had the 21 I was on task force. 22 23 24 proactive unit that wear the BDU'S. on task force, to tell was and they told my supervisor me that I was gOlng on I 25 reassignment , and so that ' s what di d . 650 POYDRAS STR EET, SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS, LA 70130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY, INC . OFFIC IA L COURT REPORTERS Ph. (504) 568-9111 Fax (504) 568-9 110 86 1 I Q. worked the desk until I was fired. 2 3 4 Other than that morning ln your discussions with supervisors about what had occurred, and you mentioned several discussed it with, people you 5 6 7 when was your next discussion about what happened that night with some investigating arm, whether it's 8 9 inside the department or outside the department? A. 10 11 okay. well, cold case homicide, they got ln touch with me and basically took my statement . sometime. Q. 12 13 It had to have been November I'm not sure of the date. tim e you g a v e a 14 15 16 17 w0 u 1 d t hat bet h e fir s t written statement or a recorded statement about this? A. Q. A. That I okay . I can' t can remember, yes. 18 19 Any idea why it took that long? say. Did you assist your counsel ln any 20 21 22 Q. Okay . way ln the preparation of the production of documents or exhibits glven to our office as a A. 23 24 result of discovery we requested? No. okay. Going back to the shooting. 2S Q. 650 POY DRAS STR EET, SUITE 2610 NEW OR LEANS , LA 70130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY, INC. OFFICIA L COURT REPORTERS Ph. (504) 568-911 1 Fax (504) 568-9 11 0 87 1 2 After you shot Mr. fall A. Q. Brumfield, up? did he face down or face 3 4 5 Face up. okay. So the blood you observed was on the front of his T-shirt? A. Q. 6 7 8 9 The front left upper. back for any reason? him Did you ever see his Did they ever move the around so you saw his A. Not t hat I I body or flip back? 10 11 k now 0 f . know the body was moved when we came because he wasn't in the original 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 Q. back, spot. Have you ever seen an September 12 , your counsel autopsy from provided by ' OS, that was and the city to our office? Have you ever seen this document before? A. Q. 19 20 No, sir. I okay. #1. would like to mark this as Exhibit 21 22 (Exhibit #1 was marked for identification.) Going to the second paragraph of the document -I 23 24 25 will hand it to you so you can 650 POYDRAS STREET, SUITE 2610 NEW OR LEANS. LA 70130 AF FILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY, INC . OFF ICIA L COURT REPORTERS Ph . (504) 568?9 111 Fax (504) 568-9 110 88 1 " confirm what I'm saying to you. It says there is a single shotgun wound to the left back that is 2 . 5 centimeters ln greatest dimension with no scalloping of the edges or satellite entries of the shot pellets indicating the wound to be close range. The path of the shotgun path is from right, with little 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 back to front and left to appreciable deviation from top to bottom. Do you have any idea why the autopsy would say the gentleman was shot in the back? A. Q. 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. No reason. Brumfield fell, did you see any After Mr. scissors? A. Q. of course. where were they lying ln body? relation to the A. Q. still ln his hand . In his hand? Yes. Were they ln his hand when you the crlme scene? Ye s . okay . DO you know if the SClssors were returned to A. Q. 650 POYDRAS STREET, SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS, LA 70130 AF FILI ATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY, INC. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Ph. (504) 56 8-9111 Fax (504) 568-9110 89 1 preserved as evidence? A. Q. 2 3 I'm not sure. okay . Let me ask off the record . ) record. 4 (off the 5 6 7 EXAMINATION BY MR . ROOT: Q. Back on the record. who have you discussed the shooting with within the department other than officials who came to you as part of a cold case investigation? A. Q. Pe0 8 9 10 11 p 1 e i n my u nit . 12 13 This is after the shooting? Aft e r the s h 0 Okay. 0 A. Q. tin g . 14 Days and weeks and months after the just in conversation? 15 16 A. shooting, Ye s . I 17 18 mean to this day I You know, mean people ask me about it. family , friends, you know, stuff 19 20 people on the department, like that , because, you know, it was kind 21 of recently on CNN again I Q. think. 22 23 Have you ever spoken with anybody who is a family member or friend of the Brumfields? 24 25 A. I know someone that is a family member of Brumfields. the 650 POYDRAS STREET, SUITE 2610 NEW OR LEANS , LA 70130 AFFI LI ATED REPORTING TEC HNOLOGY, INC. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Ph. (504) 568-9111 Fax (504) 568 -9110 90 1 Q. who 1 s that? 2 3 4 A. I'm think -- What's his name? I forget. Johnson. I'm sorry. 5th District. Gregory Johnson. Q. 5 6 7 A police officer? Police officer, okay. As a matter of fact, forgot her last name, his ex-partner -- I but I know her first yes. A. Q. 8 9 A. 10 11 name is Tianni, District so, was also ln the 5th there was some 12 13 14 Q. you know, tension there. Have you discussed this with Gregory Johnson at all? A. As far as what? What happened? Q. 15 16 17 18 19 20 As far a san y t h i n g . Ye s . Okay. what did you discuss? A. Q. 21 22 23 24 25 Just what we are discussing here today, what A. Q. happened? The same thing we discussed today. And what did officer Johnson tell if anything? Yes. okay. you, 650 POYDRAS STREET. SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS , LA 70130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY, INC. OFF IC IA L COUR T REPORTER S Ph. (504) 568?9111 Fax (504) 568-9110 91 1 2 3 A. well, sure. talk, I can't quote him, but -- I'm not Basically just the basic police where you have to defend yourself, stuff 4 you have to do what you have to do, like that, Q. 5 6 7 you know. Stuff like that. SO you felt that officer Johnson was generally supportive of your position? 8 A. Q. Correct. Yes. 9 10 11 What about Tianni? She was not supportive of me at all okay. Be for e MR. MULLALY: I object to that, for speculation. because it calls why do you think that is? A. Q. 12 13 14 15 A. 16 17 18 19 E X A MIN A T ION BY MR. ROO T : Q. Do you know why she is adverse to your position? Do you have any -- well, is your appreciation of that? you know , what 20 21 22 23 24 A. well, Mr. way. So I before I knew she was kin to Let me put it this Brumfield -- well, Tianni is a very attractive female. and she attempted to talk to her, 25 wouldn't talk to me at all. 650 POY DRAS STREET, SUITE 2610 NEW OR LEANS , LA 70130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY, INC. O F FIC IA L COU R T R EP O RT E RS Ph. (504) 568-9 111 Fax (504) 568-9110 92 1 2 3 4 So Gregory Johnson, friend, you know. you know , he is my We had a conversation I don ' t know why she about her. I'm like, don't talk to me, why. that's oh, He said, and he finally told me the guy that you shot, and I was like , 5 6 7 well, her family member, I knew then, I well. but I kind of 8 figured Q. something. wasn't sure. 9 But ' di d you di scuss the shooti ng or the events of the shooting with her? 10 11 12 A. Q. Neg a t i v e . 0 kay . 13 A. Q. I just stayed out of her way. DO 14 15 16 Okay . you know whether the scissors were preserved as evidence in any way? A. I' m not sur e . Have you ever read any of the police report 17 Q. 18 19 20 or supplemental incident? A. report dealing with this I seen a police report . I've never seen a 21 22 Q. suppl emental. okay . You were never asked to reVlew the 23 . 24 A. Q. information ln it at any time? No . okay. Anybody else outside the department 25 650 POYDRAS STREET, SUITE 26 10 NEW ORLEANS , LA 70 130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY, INC. OFF ICIAL COURT REPORTERS Ph. (504) 568-911 1 Fax (504) 568-9110 93 1 that you spoke with? Any news folks try to track you down to 2 3 talk to you about it? A. 4 No. I stay away from the media . 5 6 Q. When you left the employ of the city after the allegations of domestic abuse, you do to earn a living then? what did 7 8 A. Nothing at all. You weren ' t employed in any capacity? There are Nothing . rumors now, No job. but 9 Q. A. 10 11 Any capaci ty . any capacity . a tall. Nothing 12 13 Q. W ere you sus pen d e d wit h 0 u t with pay? pay 0 r was i t 14 15 A. Q. wi thout. wi thout. okay. 16 17 18 19 And that ' s from January to september? A. 0 0 ct 0 0 be r . be r . Q. ct 20 And you earned nothing from January to October? A. 21 22 Nothing at all . Were you on unemployment? No . We 1 1 I 23 24 Q. A. Q. 25 have to ask you. 650 POYDRAS STREET, SUITE 26 10 NEW OR LEANS, LA 70130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY, INC. OF F ICI A L COURT R E P O RTE R S Ph. (504) 568?9111 Fax (504) 568-9110 94 1 2 3 4 A. What did you live off of? Did you have savings? My family. I had a little money saved up, It was not much, because I was in cops. but just a little money. My mom -- My family took care of me until Q. 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 " really basically this was over with. Did you continue to have your own place? Ye s .' Just family members helped you with your A. Q. A. My rent, whateve r I needed. Groceries, stuff like that. Q. 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Give me a second. stuff. MR. I will reVlew some We might be close to done. ROOT: Let's take a quick five-minute break so I can chat with Betsy. speed it up. I think it will (off the MR. record.) MULLALY: okay. MR. ROOT: I think we will introduce this and we are done. 650 POYDRAS STREET, SUITE 2610 NEW ORLEANS, LA 70130 AFFILIATED REPORTING TECHNOLOGY, INC. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Ph. (5 04) 568-91 11 Fax (504) 568-9110 95 1 MR. MULLALY: 2 okay. MR . ROOT: 3 4 okay. MR . MULLALY: Do you have any recross? 5 6 7 I don't. (concl us; on.) 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 650 POYDRAS STREET, SUITE 2610 NEW OR LEANS, LA 70 130 AFF ILIATED REPORT ING TEC HNOLOGY, INC. OFFIC IAL COURT R EPORTERS Ph. (504) 568-9111 Fax (504) 568-9110 96 1 2 3 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE I, do LINDY ROOT, Certified Court Reporter, 4 5 6 7 8 hereby certify that the above-mentioned after having been first truth, duly sworn by witness, me to testify to the did testify as hereinabove set forth; That the testimony was reported by me ln 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 shorthand and transcribed under my personal d ire c t ion and sup e r vis ion, correct transcript, and u n d e r s tan din g ; That I am not of counsel , parties hereto, not and related to not ln any and 1 s a t rue and to the best of my ability counselor the way interested in the outcome of this matter . 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 CERTIFIED COURT REPORTER REGISTERED PROFESSIONAL REPORTER ;~ =::'":-----' .":.:1 24 . :i ' "',<: ,-"'1 .~r ' .. . ", 25 - ;,":: :~} )' , ....,.:'1 :} . ,. " j - -. "', ~ '. 650 POYDRAS STREET, SU ITE 2610 NEW OR LEAN S, LA 70130 AFF ILIATED REPORT ING TECHNOLOGY, INC . O FFI CIAL COURT REPORTERS Ph . (504) 568-9111 Fax (504) 568-9110