Case: State of Missouri v. Darren Wilson Transcript of: Hearing Before the Grand Jury, VdumeZ Date: September 3, 2014 This transcript is printed on 100% recycled paper 515 Olive Street, Suite 300 St. Louis, MO 63101 (314) 241-6750 1-800-878-6750 Fax: (314) 241-5070 Email: schedule@goreperry.com Internet: State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page I i STATE OF MISSOURI VS. DARREN WILSON GRAND JURY SEPTEMBER 3, 2014 VOLUME II Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 2 I IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF ST. LOUIS COUNTY 2 STATE OF MISSOURI 3 4 STATE OF MISSOURIDARREN WILSON, 12 The following is a hearing before the Grand l3 Jury of St. Louis County, at the offices of St. 14 Louis County Prosecuting Attorney's Office, 100 15 South Central Avenue, in the City of Clayton, State l6 of Missouri, on the 3rd day of September, 20l4, 17 before Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 3 i APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL: LUMP FOR THE STATE: Lb Ms. Kathi Alizadeh Ms. Sheila Whirley Assistant Prosecuting Attorneys for St. Louis County 100 South Central Avenue, 2nd Floor Clayton, MO 63105 9 (314) 615?2600 Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 5 i GRAND JURY HEARING MS. ALIZADEH: Good morning. Today's date LUMP is September 3rd, 2014 and it is about, I can't see Lb my watch, a little before 9:00, 9:55. (sic) This is Kathy Alizadeh with the Prosecutor's Office and also present in the room are the 12 jurors and Sheila Whirley with the Prosecutor's Office and the court reporter who is taking down everything that's being 9 said at this point. 10 Just some preliminary things. First of 11 all, did everybody get in okay, was there any 12 confusion, you all got in okay? 13 Well, did give you menus for today? 14 (All jurors indicate yes.) 15 MS. ALIZADEH: What I would like to at 16 least begin explaining, and we talked to you about 17 when you want to meet in the future. And we are 18 going to accommodate you whatever time or date you 19 would like to meet. Whatever you decide, if you 20 want to meet, to continue to meet on Wednesdays 21 because that's what you're used to, we will make 22 this room available for you on Wednesdays, okay. 23 We'll do something else with the new grand jury, 24 they'll meet elsewhere. 25 So I would suggest that possibly over the Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 6 i lunch break today maybe talk amongst yourselves. a During your lunch break it is not going to be LUMP recorded, you all can talk about amongst yourselves Lb about future days. And then maybe at the end of the day today or after the lunch, we are going to need a list of some dates. Those dates are not going to be made public, we're never going to discuss on the record 9 in advance what dates, you know, you're going to be 10 meeting, but we'll need to know so we can start 11 scheduling people. 12 Keep in mind that unlike typical grand 13 jury days, we cannot present evidence on this matter 14 unless all 12 of you are present. 15 I know you all have the phone number for 16 the grand jury. If you all make arrangements to 17 meet on a particular day and then, you know, 18 somebody gets up in the morning and they're sick, l9 they've got the flu, you're going to need to call as 20 soon as possible so we can try to call people and 21 head them off if they haven't already left their 22 homes if one of you can't make it, then we're not 23 going to be able to hear anything that day, okay? 24 . So the 25 alternates, alternates will not be called in on Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 7 1 this, is that my understanding? 2 MS. ALIZADEH: That's correct, they're not 3 going to have heard everything that you would have 4 heard. 5 Okay. 6 MS. ALIZADEH: Typically the grand jury 7 will hear a whole case in a matter of 15 minutes 8 maybe, but that's not the case here, so there won't 9 be any alternates that are going to be seated. 10 All right. ll MS. ALIZADEH: So the way I would like to 12 progress is that each day when we meet, we're going 13 to try to be on time and start on time. I think 14 that's respectful of everybody else. We know you 15 are dedicating a lot of your time to do this, so 16 we'll try to be more punctual on future dates. 17 I also want to tell you as you notice we 18 have some additional equipment in this room, there 19 is probably more people in this room than ever 20 before. I'm probably going to bring in some 2l additional fans because it will heat up and get warm 22 in this room. 23 If anybody at any point feels like they're 24 feeling, you know, a little overheated, please let 25 me know because we'll take a break. With this door Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 8 open when I walk out here it is way cooler out here 2 than it is in here. If ever you feel like you're, 3 you know, not being able to be attentive because of 4 the heat, stop us, okay. 5 And what I would also like to do is every, 6 the beginning of every time you meet is to give you 7 an overview of what to expect for that day. This is 8 not in the form of like an opening statement where 9 I'm going to talk about what the evidence is going 10 to be, I'm just going to give you the names of the ll witnesses that we expect to call and who they are 12 and what we anticipate the content of the topic 13 they're testifying about. 14 As you have seen in the past, the witness 15 will take the stand, be sworn, take the stand and 16 then I will begin or Sheila will begin by asking the 17 witness questions. 18 And I'm not trying to say, I don't want to 19 discourage anybody from asking any question that 20 they want to ask, but what I would like to see if 2l possible, because your questions might be answered 22 later on in the testimony. Some of these witnesses 23 are going to have testimony and at some 24 point, you know, you might ask a question that I'll 25 say he's going to talk about that in a minute. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 9 i 1 If you don't understand something that's i 2 being said at the time, raise your hand, identify 3 yourself by your juror number and say excuse me, I'm 4 not understanding what you're saying right now. But 5 if you have a question that he hasn't, the witness 6 hasn't seemed to answer yet, if you want to jot that 7 down in your notes then, you know, at the end, of 8 course, you know, I will open it up to questions and 9 Sheila may have additional questions or vice versa 10 because we are taking turns on putting on different ll witnesses because one person can't do all of this. 12 Are there any questions so far? 13 There will be times when I'm going to hand 14 out things to you like maps or reports of other 15 people just so you can have them for your reference 16 while you're hearing the testimony. I would 17 encourage you to still pay attention to the 18 testimony. 19 It can be distracting if you are reading 20 something that's in front of you while a witness is 2l testifying, you are going to be missing something 22 that's being said on the stand. Anything that we 23 give you will be available to you at any time during 24 the time you're sitting. Certainly for your 25 deliberations if you wish to have items back that Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 10 you've seen before, we'll get those to you. When you do get maps or reports or LUMP anything of that nature, what I would like you to do Lb is to just write your juror number on the corner of it, but I don't want you to put any other writing on it. If you have notes you want to take, put them in your notebook because as we've explained to 9 you your notebooks are going to be private, they're 10 locked up, nobody is looking at them and they will ll be destroyed at the end of the process here. I 12 don't want you making notes on anything that is, you 13 know, not your notebooks, okay. Can we agree with 14 that? 15 After our last session Sheila and I sat 16 down and listened to some parts of the testimony, 17 the mikes pick up very well. Remember last time I 18 said I wasn't sure how that was going to go? So I 19 was kind of encouraging people to lean forward. I 20 think we're not going to have any problem as long as 2l people keep their voices up, we should be able to 22 hear everybody that wants to speak. 23 And if at all, you know, you cannot hear a 24 witness as usual, you know, you need to raise your 25 hand, I can't hear you or I didn't hear what you Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page ll said. Any questions about that so far? LUMP Sheila, one other thing I forgot. So the Ab next time we meet, we will need for you to be on time because Judge who is the grand jury judge, is going to be here before we start that day and she's going to read to you another charge. When I say charge, it is like she's charging you 9 with an oath, I guess. 10 That is having to do with the fact that ll you're session is being extended. So I told her, 12 you know, what time I thought we wanted to get 13 started. You know she's going to be here a little 14 before that. So if we can make sure that everybody 15 is here on time so, you know, she doesn't have to 16 wait around for us. 17 MS. WHIRLEY: What time we talking, 8:00 l8 or 8:30. 19 MS. ALIZADEH: I think we were talking 20 about 8:30. 21 MS. WHIRLEY: 80 8:30. 22 MS. ALIZADEH: You all can be here by 23 8:30? 24 MS. WHIRLEY: You actually prefer 8:30? 25 Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page l2 2 MS. WHIRLEY: Okay. Because 8:00 worked 3 well. I think they prefer 8:00 to bring them in the 4 way they did today, they prefer 8:00. 5 MS. ALIZADEH: So what time do you all 6 think you can be here and seated for Judge 7 8 (All indicate 8:00.) 9 MS. ALIZADEH: I will tell her to be here 10 at 8:00 for the next time you meet. ll You have a question? 12 13 I know she spoke a lot 14 about secrecy and we all take that very seriously. l5 l6 l7 18 MS. ALIZADEH: I don't know the answer to 19 that question. I do know what that is, so I will 20 have to check with our people and see what they say 2l about that. 22 Okay. 23 MS. ALIZADEH: I can't imagine there would 24 be a problem with that. 25 MS. WHIRLEY: I didn't hear over here, I'm Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 13 1 sorry. 2 MS. ALIZADEH: You want to go ahead and 3 restate it? 4 5 6 MS . WHIRLEY: 7 8 MS. WHIRLEY: 9 Because of what we are 10 going to be doing. 11 MS. WHIRLEY: Okay, I didn't hear you. 12 MS. ALIZADEH: As we mentioned before, 13 people in your lives know you are on a grand jury l4 and have been. Of course, we're not going to 15 disclose to any media outlet or the public in 16 general your identities, but your families and your 17 employers know that you are on the grand jury. 18 But more importantly, what you are charged 19 with is that you cannot discuss anything that you 20 hear in here. So, you know, if you have 21 conversations with your family or your employers 22 about, you know, your meeting times and your meeting 23 dates, how long this is going to take, thatunderstand that that's something that you 25 all need to work out with the people in your lives. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page l4 We would like to get this done as quickly as possible, but then again, we are not going to LUMP rush anything. Lb If there is a need to meet until after the first of the year, that's what we are going to do. I don't anticipate that, but there is no way after this whole process is over that anybody is going to say we rushed anything, okay. I want you to have as 9 much time as you need, hear as much evidence as you 10 think you need to hear. If we don't call somebody ll that you want to hear from, we'll get them here, 12 okay. 13 So for the next meeting we'll start at 14 8:00, the Judge will give you a charge. Today we're 15 going to have testimony on the investigation into 16 the shooting of Michael Brown in the morning 17 session, hopefully we can get done by lunch time. 18 In the afternoon today you are going to hear a 19 regular docket of cases that we need to move through 20 the grand jury. 21 After that, we anticipate that all of 22 your, everything you will hear every time you sit 23 will just be evidence on the investigation into the 24 shooting of Michael Brown. 25 I know this is different than other cases Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 15 i 1 because normally when we've charged somebody with an i 2 offense, you have the charge in front of you, you 3 can read what the charge is, you can read what maybe 4 the elements are and you don't have that in this 5 case. 6 I understand that that kind of leaves you 7 not sure how you are supposed to look at this 8 evidence. 9 So after this morning session, Sheila and 10 I will sit down and we will come up with statutes 11 for you on the various degrees of homicide and there 12 will be some other relevant statutes on the use of 13 lethal or deadly force when, and possibly 14 self?defense statutes, so you will have by the time 15 you are here next time. We'll have that for you so 16 you can kind of at least understand the law as you 17 are hearing this evidence. 18 We're putting on witnesses in a certain 19 order because we're trying to make this easier for 20 you to digest and understand the evidence as it 21 comes in because unlike a trial, I'm not making an 22 opening statement. I can't outline for you what all 23 the evidence is. In a trial, you know, a jury gets 24 to hear that, that's not going to happen here 25 because I'm not making an opening statement. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page l6 3 So we're trying to put the evidence on in a more logical order so you can kind of understand LUMP as the witnesses progress, oh yeah, I remember Lb hearing about that the other day. Um, but as it happens, sometimes we have scheduling issues with witnesses, and sometimes things might be out of order. There might be an occasion where you hear 9 testimony from a witness and then you say to me or 10 Sheila, well, you know, what about that, was that ll found at the scene? Well, you're just, I can't l2 answer those kind of questions for you, you're just 13 going to have to hope you are going to hear evidence 14 about that and at the conclusion of all of this, if 15 you have additional questions and you give us those 16 questions, we will see if we can get those answered 17 through witness testimony, okay. 18 I think the best thing for every day is 19 for us to tell you how your day is going to go. So 20 today you are going to hear from two witnesses. The 21 first witness is St. Louis County Detective, 22 Detective He is a crime 23 scene investigator. He will testify about what he 24 did in relation to his investigation into the 25 incident that occurred involving the shooting of Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 17 1 Michael Brown, okay. 2 We're going to see pictures, and some of 3 them are going to be graphic and disturbing and I 4 have to just get that out there in the beginning. 5 The next witness we're going to hear from 6 is going to be I will have him 7 spell that for you. I don't want to misspell it. 8 He is the medical examiner who conducted 9 the autopsy on the body of Michael Brown and he's 10 going to describe his job and what his findings ll were, okay. 12 So with that, are we ready to get started? 13 . Now, on 14 the times for next week, we want to be in the garage 15 at 8:00 so we can be here at 8:30, or we want to be 16 at the room at 8:00? 17 MS. WHIRLEY: I think you want to be in 18 the garage at 8:00, that way you can come through 19 the way you did. That seemed to work very well 20 according to So be at the garage at 8:00, 21 unless you hear differently. I will call you if 22 something changes, but 8:00 in the garage. That 23 will probably put us at 8:30, ready for Judge 24 25 MS. ALIZADEH: And that's kind of what I Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 18 told her earlier this week, 8:30, I thought. From a frequency LUMP or time allotment standpoint for future weeks, what Lb is your anticipation from a need, eight hours per week, two days per week balance with what you have available to present to US. MS. ALIZADEH: That's going to depend a 9 lot on your schedule. Sheila and I have talked 10 about this. It would be great if we could go five ll days a week for as long as it takes to get this 12 done. As I said to Sheila yesterday, we're not 13 going to be able to do that. 14 In a typical case we have a year to 15 prepare to put on evidence and we don't have that 16 here. And so, and as you may, you know, find out as 17 the testimony comes in, we may have additional 18 witnesses that we don't even know about today that 19 we will have to, you know, present evidence on. 20 So that's going to be up to you. If you 21 guys decide well, we'd like to meet for, you know, 22 an afternoon on a certain day of the week and all 23 day on Saturday, you know, or we'd like to meet two 24 evenings during the week, whatever you all think is 25 best. Understanding that the more often we meet, Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 19 i the quicker this will go, but I don't think it is a realistic for either side, our side as well as your LUMP side to think that we're going to have, be able to Lb put this case on Monday through Friday until we get done. I just don't think we could do it. All right, you can talk about that during lunch what everybody kind of feels comfortable with as far as a schedule, okayjob, I know my session is to end next Wednesday, ll so will we get a letter stating the fact that it has 12 been extended? 13 MS. ALIZADEH: We can provide that for 14 you. 15 MS. WHIRLEY: will take care of 16 that. 17 Thank you. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 20 of lawful age, having been first duly sworn to 2 testify the truth, the whole truth, and 3 nothing but the truth in the case aforesaid, 4 deposes and says in reply to oral 5 interrogatories, propounded as follows, to?wit: 6 EXAMINATION 7 BY MS . ALIZADEH: 8 Can you state your name and spell it, 9 please? 10 A Good morning everybody. My name is ll 12 And where are you employed? 13 A I am a crime scene detective with St. 14 Louis County Police. 15 Are you a police officer? 16 A Yes, ma'am. 17 And can you briefly describe for the 18 jurors what training you went through to become a 19 police officer? 20 A After receiving a bachelor's degree, you 2l attend the police academy. You start as a police 22 officer like everyone does on the street in a patrol 23 car. After different various assignments and 24 training and interviews, I was accepted into the 25 crime scene unit about five years ago. Once in the Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 21 1 crime scene unit, here again, subjected to another 2 10 to 12 weeks of field training and ongoing classes 3 and training after that. 4 What does a crime scene investigator, what 5 is your job, what do you do? 6 A Primarily our number one job is evidence 7 at various crime scenes that we are requested to, 8 photographing evidence, collecting evidence, 9 diagramming scenes, videotaping various scenes. 10 And so you say that you have been a crime 11 scene investigator now for approximately five years? 12 A Yes, ma'am. I was assigned to this unit 13 in January of 2009. 14 And during the time you have been a crime 15 scene investigator, have you also received any 16 additional training either through course work or 17 attending conferences or seminars that are 18 particularly directed toward crime scene 19 investigations? 20 A Yes, ma'am. Everything from interviewing 21 interrogation techniques, to scene photography, 22 setting up death cases, forensic anthropology 23 courses, several things. 24 So as a general rule, before we get into 25 the particulars of this investigation, it is fair to Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 22 say that you have to be called to a crime scene by 2 other police departments or agencies; is that 3 correct? 4 A Yes, ma'am. 5 So you're not driving around in a van 6 looking for crime scenes? 7 A Not at all. 8 So you have a van that you usehas all kinds of things in there ll that you use during your investigation; is that 12 right? 13 A Equipment, tools, supplies, those sorts of 14 things. 15 And so when you are called, are you 16 on?call, like you could be called in at any time? 17 A There are l7 of us in the unit and we 18 work, we cover 24 hour shifts. So at any given time 19 there is a minimum of two of us St. Louis County 20 crime scene detectives on duty, 24 hours a day. 21 When you receive a call to go to a crime 22 scene, you get your stuff, go, and you drive your 23 van to the crime scene; is that right? 24 A Yes, ma'am. 25 Now, typically when you arrive at a crime Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 23 scene, what's the first thing you do? A First thing I would do is contact either LUMP the person in charge of the scene or an officer that Lb knows what's going on. They would typically give me a rundown what they know at that time and walk me through the scene to show me, again, what they know, what occurred and where it occurred. And so it's, you are not the first officer 9 arriving at a crime scene, other officers are always 10 there before you; is that right? ll A Correct, yes, ma'am. 12 And so you talk with them about what they 13 know, what they might have already found, correct? 14 A Yes. 15 Okay. Um, and so after you get that 16 information, is that necessary for you to then 17 decide what you are going to document, what you are 18 going to search for and so forth? 19 A Yes, it helps greatly knowing what they 20 know and then I can take my time and start digging 21 further into finding evidence and stuff like that. 22 But knowing what they know prior to my arrival helps 23 me establish a starting point for my investigation. 24 And I would imagine every crime scene is 25 going to be unique, correct? Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 24 A Every one. 2 And whether it is a shooting or a burglary 3 or sexual assault, those are all different crime 4 scenes, correct? 5 A Yes, ma'am. 6 So after you have spoken with the officers 7 there and gotten some information, what's the next 8 thing you typically do? 9 A I would walk through the scene with them, 10 they typically would point out evidence that they've ll already found or stuff that may have obvious to 12 them, stuff that other witnesses or victims may have 13 shown them already. From that point, for homicide l4 scenes and other death investigation scenes, the 15 first thing that we would do is videotape a 16 walk?through from my own perspective. Not with 17 anyone narrating it or with anyone particularly in 18 front of the camera, it would typically be just my 19 point of view walking through the scene from what 20 know from that initial contact with the officer. 21 And in these cases given that other 22 officers are already there before you, is it usual 23 that whatever they have determined the scene to be 24 has been taped off with police tape, that yellow 25 tape that keeps people out of the scene? Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 25 i A Yes, ma'am, generally that's the case. Oftentimes through the course of an investigation we LUMP may find something, obviously, that's outside the Ab crime scene tape initially, but typically the crime scene tape is already up, a scene has been established for us and then we start our investigation. And I would imagine that, you know, what 9 you were hoping for is to have a crime scene that is 10 undisturbed, uncontaminated by anyone from the ll outside who is not involved in the incident itself, 12 would that be fair to say? 13 A In an ideal world, yes, that would be 14 perfect. 15 Does it occur that there is contamination 16 of a scene either because of police officers being 17 there, other pedestrians being there, emergency 18 personnel, first responders being there? 19 A Yes, absolutely, that's one of the tenets 20 of crime scene work. That's a theory that anyone or 21 any person that comes in contact with a crime scene 22 you can either take something away, but you will 23 always leave something there, be it footprint, 24 steps, anything. 25 And so after you have done your video Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 26 i walk?through then, what's the next thing that you i 2 do? 3 A The next thing we do is after we capture 4 video, we take overall scene photographs. And 5 again, it is photographs from my perspective of what 6 is in place when I show up. 7 If there is a police car that's shown 8 up or crime scene tape, everything is left in place 9 from when I get there and I take my overall 10 photographs from what is in place when I get there. ll There is no way I can photograph stuff that happened 12 before I get there or try to guess what it looked 13 like before, so the photographs that I take from the 14 crime scene are actually what I see when I show up. 15 So it would be against protocol to try to 16 rearrange things so that they were the way somebody 17 thought they were before you arrived? 18 A Yes, ma'am, correct. 19 So nobody touches anything once you get 20 there and you then go through it, photograph 21 everything as you see it; is that right? 22 A Yes. 23 And then after you have completed 24 photographing a scene, what do you do next? 25 A Once we do the overall photos, we would Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 27 typically walk through and place down our number of placards to mark the known piece of evidence that we LUMP have recognized or determined at that point. Lb After that, we'll start photographing those pieces of evidence individually and then once those things are documented, we'll then start moving things, looking for more pieces of evidence. We always want to be able to show stuff that was in 9 place, how you would normally just walk in and see, 10 there is always going to be hidden pieces of ll evidence that we need to move, either a car, you 12 know, a couch, move cushions on stuff and start 13 looking for additional pieces of evidence. 14 And then we just restart the same 15 process. Photographing it where we found it, 16 putting a placard in place where we found it and 17 then collecting it. 18 And then when you collect evidence after 19 you photograph that evidence, you referenced a 20 placard, is that, explain for the jurors what a 21 placard is? 22 A A placard, I'm sure you have all seen 23 them, they come in various shapes and colors. There 24 is typically a hard plastic, for lack of a better 25 term, with a number on it. And the only purpose Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 28 that it truly serves is for primarily me to 2 recognize a photograph, what number of evidence that 3 I'm picking up. 4 Any given scene shell casing or a 5 blood drop somewhere. If you find a picture of this 6 shell casing 100 pictures later of a separate shell 7 casing, it would be nearly impossible for you to 8 determine which was number one and which was number 9 200. 10 So a numbered placard is just a ll reference for my report writing and my evidence 12 collection of what I've just took a picture of and I 13 can reference that in my evidence. 14 So after you have placed your placard and 15 photograph the evidence items with their placards, 16 you begin collecting pieces of evidence, correct? 17 A Yes, ma'am. 18 And you always have with you in your van 19 envelopes, plastic bags, swabs, all kind of things 20 that you might need in order to properly package 21 pieces of evidence? 22 A Yes, ma'am. 23 And you do that personally yourself? 24 A I do. Typically in larger scenes there is 25 always two of us there. One is keeping notes, one Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 29 i is getting the piece of equipment for someone else. i 2 We are working together doing that, but yes, we all 3 do pick up our own evidence and place it in 4 individual bags and envelopesparticularly large scene, it 6 is more than one crime scene detective present at 7 the scene. Is there one of you that takes over that 8 that is your scene? 9 A Correct, yes, ma'am. 10 And so the other detectives that are there ll are assisting you? 12 A Correct. 13 So when you package evidence, do you mark 14 the packages or envelopes or bags with your own 15 handwriting and your notes denoting what it is 16 inside and where? 17 A As far as the labeling on front of the 18 various different envelopes that we have. One 19 person may write that. The one thing if it is your 20 case, in particular the Ferguson case was mine, some 21 envelopes I filled out the front information, but on 22 every envelope we seal it with a piece of evidence 23 tape so it is closed and that is my initials and DSN 24 on the back of every evidence seal. 25 Each individual piece of evidence would be Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 30 packaged separately, is that protocol? 2 A Yes. 3 So after you have filled out the evidence 4 envelope and sealed it with tape and placed your 5 initials and DSN on the envelope, do you prepare an 6 evidence sheet? 7 A Yes. 8 A receipt? 9 A Every piece of evidence has a paper trail, 10 it has a receipt that denotes not only what the ll evidence item is, where it was found, but it also 12 goes to a different part of our crime lab and/or 13 property control. Our crime lab has three or four 14 different wings to it, be it firearms lab, the 15 chemistry lab, the DNA lab, any piece of evidence 16 that goes to any part of those labs has to have its 17 own individual receipt. 18 So this receipt that is with this packaged l9 evidence stays with that item; is that right? 20 A Yes, not only is the evidence receipt, but 21 also serves as the chain of custody but everyone 22 that picks that item up has to sign off on it as the 23 chain of custody. 24 And it is not unusual for items that you 25 may have collected to go through a number of Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 31 1 different hands to get to its final destination, 2 whether it be the lab, whether it be the fingerprint 3 section, whether it be the medical examiner's office 4 and so forth, several people may have handled this 5 package, is that fair to say? 6 A Yes, ma'am. 7 And those people have to sign off on that 8 package? 9 A Yes. 10 And then when they give it to somebody ll else, they have to sign that they gave it, and the 12 person they gave it to then signs? 13 A Yes. 14 And until the evidence reaches a 15 destination where it is going to be examined or 16 tested, does anyone open that package while they're 17 handling it? 18 A No. 19 Would you agree that it is the general 20 policy of whether it is the St. Louis County Crime 21 Lab or any other place, that if they were eventually 22 to receive one of your evidence envelopes and the 23 envelope tape has been torn or tampered with or in 24 any way changed from when you initially sealed that 25 envelope, do they notify you? Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 32 A Typically. For instance, if I, when I 2 package a piece of evidence, I would put it into our 3 vault, especially if it is overnight. Typically 4 these things happen at night or when the crime lab 5 is closed. Whoever takes that piece of evidence out 6 of the vault or in the lab, they are going to open 7 it. 8 So they will cut my evidence tape. 9 When they're done with it and seal it back up, they 10 put a piece tape over top of it. ll Let me stop you, you are talking about a 12 vault that's at the lab? 13 A Yes, ma'am. 14 So that's after the evidence has arrived 15 at the lab? 16 A Correct. 17 But the people that may handle it before 18 it gets to the lab aren't to open that evidence, 19 correct? 20 A No, typically I would be the only person 21 that would handle that before it gets to the lab. 22 Okay. So once said sometimes if it is overnight, they have an 24 overnight vault? 25 A Yes, ma'am. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 33 1 You can drop evidence in? 2 A Correct. 3 And so you know no one else from the 4 outside except the lab people are going to be able 5 to get to that? 6 A Actually, myself, not myself, but crime 7 scene detectives and our property control director 8 are the only people that have access to it. 9 So once the lab people come in, they have 10 one of you guys have to open the vault for them to ll get the evidence out? 12 A Yes, ma'am. 13 And then, of course, if they have to 14 examine it for whatever testing or examination they 15 are going to do, that's when the first time this 16 evidence envelope is opened? 17 A Yes. If at any time there is a problem 18 with the receipt, be it if you missed a signature on 19 a receipt or if you have 30 envelopes of evidence 20 and one of them does not have the seal on it, you'll 2l get a call, a page, an email, they won't touch 22 anything until you respond back down there to fix it 23 before they will accept it as evidence. 24 So the lab is charged with the duty of 25 checking the chain of custody making sure that is Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 34 all copesetic? 2 A Yes. 3 Making sure the envelope is sealed and has 4 not been tampered with? 5 A Yes, ma'am. 6 And then after you have delivered your 7 evidence items to wherever they're going to go, the 8 lab, property control, and property control for the 9 sake of explaining to the jurors, what is property 10 control? ll A Property control, obviously, the name 12 explains a lot, they control the property. But they 13 primarily take pieces of evidence that are not going 14 to be tested by the forensic lab and fingerprints 15 for that matter. 16 If it is a recovered stolen bicycle 17 from the back of someone's yard, that's not going to 18 go to our lab for DNA testing, that's going to sit 19 in property. 20 It is what we would think of as an 2l evidence room? 22 A Exactly, yes. 23 So after you have delivered the items of 24 evidence to wherever you are going to send them to 25 and let me ask you this, at some point there is Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 35 i 1 another officer who is in charge of the i 2 investigation, would that be fair to say? 3 A Yes. 4 And do you also take instruction from that 5 officer on various parts of what you're doing? 6 A I'm assuming you are referring to like a 7 detective that's doing the lead part of the 8 investigation. 9 Right. 10 A They are oftentimes given more ll information, especially throughout the course of an 12 investigation than what we would typically have at 13 the scene. They are initially outside interviewing 14 witnesses and other people, be it even a suspect 15 and/or victim. 16 At times what they will do because 17 I'm given basic information when I show up to the 18 scene, I'm typically not privy to the ongoing active 19 investigation. 20 So other detectives, be it homicide 2l detectives or anybody else would come into the scene 22 and go hey, we just found out this. Can you look 23 for this. 24 And then I may have a piece of 25 evidence that I already collected that deemed Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 36 3 important to the case, or I assumed it might have something to do with it, and I would think to send LUMP it to the DNA lab. Lb Well, they may find out something and say can you go ahead and send that to firearms first before it goes to DNA, can you send this to fingerprints before going to DNA or vice versa. So they come in and ask certain 9 things or ask that things be sent or certain things 10 be collected that I may not have known about ll initially. 12 So, for example, while you are on the 13 scene, a detective may come up and say, hey, the guy 14 just told us he threw the knife in the sewer, now he 15 is going to cause you to go look in the sewer to see 16 if you can find the knife? 17 A Yes, ma'am. 18 After you delivered all your items of 19 evidence, then do you make a report? 20 A I do. 21 And your report is documenting what, 22 everything you have done at the crime scene; is that 23 correct? 24 A My reports are not narrative filled, like 25 typically police report it is basically an inventory Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 37 list. It is three sections or sometimes four, depending on what I do at different scenes. The LUMP first section is an inventory of the photographs Lb that I took and what they show. The second section if I took latent fingerprints or developed prints, I would list where I found each print, the third section is just a list of the evidence I collected and where it was 9 collected, what the evidence item is and where it 10 was collected and the fourth list, the fourth ll section would be if I took video or did diagrams of 12 the scene, which is me listing those things as 13 pieces of evidence. 14 Okay. And so lets get to the 15 investigation that occurred at the scene of the 16 shooting of Michael Brown. And so you were on duty 17 on August 9th of 2014; is that right? 18 A Yes, ma'am. 19 And about what time did you receive a call 20 that you were needed to respond to the scene? 21 A Shortly after 1:00 p.m. 22 And where were you when you got that call? 23 A I was actually northbound on around 24 Highway 40. 25 So how long did you go directly to the Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 38 1 scene? 2 A Um, I switched my radio over to the muni 3 north radio, which dispatches for the Ferguson area, 4 not for Ferguson, but for the munis in that area. 5 And I heard several reports of gunshots being fired 6 near the crime scene, so I stopped and put my vest 7 on. 8 Okay. What was the call involved in the 9 shooting, what information were you given when you 10 first got the call? ll A I was told that it was an officer involved 12 shooting with a Ferguson officer and Ferguson had 13 requested St. Louis County Crime Scene to respond. 14 So this incident happened within the city 15 limits of the municipality of Ferguson, correct? 16 A Yes, ma'am. 17 And typically that would not be a 18 jurisdiction that you would investigate in, they 19 would have their own police department, correct? 20 A They do. They handle burglaries and stuff 21 like that. We typically do not go in there for 22 property crimes. 23 But in this case being an officer involved 24 shooting, was it unusual for a municipality to reach 25 out to the County and ask for their assistance or Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 39 i ask them to take over the investigation? A No, ma'am. We handle those type of calls LUMP for any municipality that ask. We also handle those Lb calls for any department that uses the Major Case Squad. So when you said that you, on your way, heard on the municipal radio channels that there were shots fired, are you talking about shots that 9 were being fired after the officer involved shooting 10 occurred? ll A Correct. 12 So that caused you to decide to stop and 13 put on your Kevlar vest? 14 A Yes, ma'am. I stopped almost immediately, 15 once I got it put on, I drove directly to the scene. 16 And so what was the location of the scene? 17 A I was given the address Canfield. 18 So how is it that from where you were 19 driving you eventually travel onto West Florissant; 20 is that correct? 21 A Yes, that's the round I took. 22 And then from West Florissant you turn 23 onto what street to get? 24 A You can turn directly onto Canfield and 25 West Florissant. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 40 So from West Florissant when you turn into 2 Canfield, that's a residential area, isn't it? 3 A Yes. 4 And after you travel some distance, not 5 terribly far, you reach an apartment complex, 6 correct? 7 A Yes, ma'am. 8 What's the name of that apartment complex? 9 A I honestly can't tell you. I would just 10 assume it was the name Canfield apartment complex. ll So when you arrived, turned onto Canfield, 12 did you notice a crowd? 13 A Immediately. The distance from West 14 Florissant to the scene, if I can recollect, is 15 probably less than half a mile. And it is a 16 residential street, all the houses have driveways, I 17 have been on that street before. There is typically 18 not a bunch of cars parked on the side streets and 19 stuff like that, but as soon as I turned onto 20 Canfield, I encountered traffic basically at a 21 standstill. 22 There was some officers that were 23 directing traffic near the first cross street 24 because people were pulling in, being told they 25 can't drive through, trying to turn around and it Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 41 was a little bit of a mess when I showed up. 2 Were there also a number of first 3 responders there? 4 A Several. 5 Police cars? 6 A Yes, ma'am. 7 Ambulances or were they already gone? 8 A I can't testify to that. I don't remember 9 if they were there or not. I know there were 10 several police cars and hundreds of pedestrians. ll Hundreds of pedestrians outside of the 12 police? 13 A Yes, ma'am. 14 This is in the middle of day, correct? 15 A Yes, ma'am. 16 Daylight hours? 17 A Yes, ma'am. 18 Was it raining? 19 A Sunny, nice weather. 20 So after you made your way through that 21 initial crowd, did you arrive at an area that was 22 taped off and you determined to be the scene of the 23 crime? 24 A Yes, ma'am. 25 And so, what is it that you first did when Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 42 you arrived? A I first sought out whoever it was in LUMP charge. I saw some other officers and sergeants Lb from my own department and I obviously made my way over to a group of people that were talking. They were expecting me and I just asked, simply asked can you tell me what's going on. What information, when you say a group of 9 people, you talking about police officers? 10 A Yes, ma'am. ll You didn't talk to any witnesses? 12 A No, ma'am. 13 Or anybody in the crowdwhat did the officers tell you? 16 A They told me that they had an officer 17 involved shooting. They were pretty brief with me 18 initially stating that the officers car is down 19 there and at the other end of the street is the 20 victim. 21 When you, now, the initial call that came 22 out for this, do you recall was this, how is this 23 determined initially? 24 A I was told officer involved shooting, that 25 would be the typical term they would use when Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 43 talking to me on the phone. 2 Now, several of the items that you have 3 packaged and also marked, you write or have 4 indicated assault on 5 A Correct. 6 What does that mean? 7 A At my point in the investigation it is 8 obviously right when everything starts and charges, 9 determinations, names assigned to things aren't lO necessarily set in stone. So during my initial ll investigation, we are investigating an assault on a 12 law enforcement officer. 13 Were you told when you initially arrived 14 at the scene that there was some type of altercation l5 involving an officer and the deceased? 16 A Yes, ma'am. 17 And was that described as an assault? 18 A Correct. 19 So when you began this investigation, you 20 were characterizing this as an assault of a law 2l enforcement officer, correct? 22 A Yes. 23 Is that in any way meant to be your 24 opinion of what happened or who was a victim in this 25 case? Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 44 A No, ma'am. Any time I'm involved in an 2 officer involved shooting, be it a fatal one or 3 nonfatal, it is always during my initial 4 investigation listed as an assault on law 5 enforcement. 6 And so on various evidence items that you 7 package on these sheets, you list a victim name? 8 A Correct. 9 And when you began this investigation, who 10 was your victim name on these packages? ll A Officer Wilson. 12 That would be the Ferguson officer? 13 A Yes, ma'am. 14 Again, is that in any way supposed to be 15 some kind of comment on whether you think who was 16 the victim of this incident? 17 A No, ma'am. That's how, when we list 18 assault on law enforcement, he was the victim of the 19 assault that we were initially investigating. 20 Okay. So did you immediately learn the 21 identity of the deceased? 22 A We had a preliminary TD. There was no 23 form of positive investigation when I started my 24 investigation. 25 Okay. And so after having talked to the Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 45 i officers about what happened, what's the first thing i 2 you did in this case? 3 A One of the sergeants with Ferguson give me 4 a brief walk?through to start my investigation so I 5 can have a logical starting point from where I would 6 start my video, photographs and looking for 7 evidence. 8 So eventually you did a diagram of the 9 crime scene is that correct? 10 A Yes, ma'am that's the last thing we do ll before we leave. 12 So given that it is the last thing, but 13 I'm going to use it initially as one of my first 14 things to help the jurors understand what is going 15 on, but as I turn off of, as you enter the apartment l6 complex and at the point where the crime scene is, 17 Canfield is basically a straight street, correct? 18 A Yes, ma'am. Where this entire scene 19 occurred is a straight stretch of road. 20 And is it a paved road? 21 A Yes. 22 Is it marked with any paint or lane 23 parkers? 24 A It has a center lane marker, yes. 25 And is that a double yellow line? Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 46 i A Yes, ma'am. i 2 And is this a street where there's a 3 single lane of traffic that proceeds in opposite 4 directions? 5 A Correct. 6 And Canfield is a street that goes east 7 and west? 8 A Yes, at that point. 9 Okay. It is a curvy street? 10 A Yes. 11 But at the point where your crime scene 12 was, it is straight and it pretty much is an east to 13 west street? 14 A Yes, ma'am. 15 And when you started your walk?through 16 with the Ferguson officer, did he direct your 17 attention to Officer Wilson's vehicle? 18 A Yes. 19 And where, in relation to the deceased 20 body, was the vehicle, was it 21 A The west end of the crime scene. 22 Okay. And then further east down Canfield 23 then was the deceased? 24 A Correct. 25 And so when you began your walk?through, Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 47 did you start on, what end of this crime scene did 2 you start at? 3 A Everyone that I spoke with, the Ferguson 4 officers and my own department, we were on the east 5 end of the crime scene near the victim or the 6 deceased as it were. 7 Yeah, because I don't want to get confused 8 using the term victim because some of your things 9 are 10 A Yes, ma'am, they are. ll Marked victim is Officer Wilson. So let's 12 talk about deceased or Michael Brown in that term. 13 A Okay. 14 And then any officer, the Ferguson officer 15 by his name, okay? 16 A Okay. 17 If everybody doesn't know as of yet, the 18 officer that was identified to you as being involved 19 in this shooting was Darren Wilson; is that correct? 20 A CorrectOkay Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 48 So the vehicle was on the west end of the 2 crime scene, Michael Brown's body was on the east 3 end of the crime scene? 4 A Yes. 5 So when you began your initial 6 walk?through, you started where the body was? 7 A Yes, ma'am. 8 Are you videotaping at this point? 9 A No, ma'am. 10 When you are doing the walk?through then, ll did you notice that there were already items of 12 apparent evidence or things of interest that had 13 already been marked? 14 A Yes, ma'am. There are a lot of times 15 classes that are offered at their own police 16 academy, basically road officers responding to 17 homicide scenes. 18 It is not only training, a lot of 19 times kind of fall backs on common sense. If there 20 is something, be it a shell casing or piece of 21 clothing that you know is part of evidence or 22 evidentiary value, most anyone will typically mark 23 that, be it with a piece of crime scene tape or 24 traffic cones, they will set stuff near items just 25 so one, it is marked and they know where it is at. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 49 3 Two, so someone doesn't accidently step on it or kick it or move it. LUMP So did you notice that there were a number Lb of traffic cones that were already in this scene? A Yes, as part of the walk?through they would say that cone over there is marking what we think is a projectile or that traffic cone is marking a shell casing and they would just point 9 things out to me as we were walking through. 10 All right. And so after you did this ll walk?through, did you walk the length of the crime 12 scene going then west and then returning east to 13 where the deceased was? 14 A Yes, ma'am. 15 And also, just for the record, the street 16 of Canfield at this point, are there sidewalks on 17 either side of the street? 18 A Yes. 19 And there are apartment buildings, this is 20 a complex that has a number of apartment buildings, 21 correct? 22 A Yes, ma'am. 23 And the apartment buildings have parking 24 lots? 25 A Yeah Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 50 1 And there is entrances to the parking 2 lots, there are streets that are coming off of 3 Canfield, correct? 4 A Yes, ma'am. 5 So after you did your walk?through, what's 6 the next thing you did? 7 A Um, typically at that point we would go 8 back, my van was parked on the west end of the crime 9 scene just west of where Darren Wilson's vehicle was 10 at. We would go back there, I would prepare my ll video camera, you know, get a new memory card put 12 in, write some notes down and at that point 13 typically start my video walk?through of the scene. 14 Is that what you did in this case? 15 A No, ma'am. 16 Why not? 17 A As far as the exact times, I couldn't tell 18 you, but during this time when we were heading back 19 to my car, another round of gunshots were fired and 20 extremely close proximity to the crime scene. There 21 was obviously a large crowd reacting to that as well 22 as a police reaction to it. 23 And the decision was made almost 24 immediately to kind of hold, make sure that our 25 crime scene is secured. have to be able to Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 51 1 concentrate what I'm looking at and trying to 2 collect, versus trying to watch the crowd behind me 3 that's growing ever bigger and more angry by the 4 minute. 5 And so there was a break in your 6 investigation until you were comfortable that the 7 crime scene was secured; is that right? 8 A Yes, ma'am. 9 Is anyone else processing the crime scene 10 or do anything else or touching in the crime scene 11 while you take that break? 12 A No, ma'am. All the manpower there was 13 utilized to try to secure the crime, just secure the 14 perimeter of the crime scene. We had officers 15 10 feet apart, 5 feet apart every inch of the crime 16 scene tape trying to keep people out of it. 17 These were county officers, were there 18 Ferguson officers? 19 A County officers, Ferguson officers, I 20 guarantee you there were other neighboring 21 municipality officers that were there. 22 Approximately if you had to guess, how 23 many police officers were on the scenethat unusual in your experience? Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 52 A Very unusual. 2 Had you ever had a scene like this before? 3 A Never. 4 And so after this break until you were 5 comfortable about the crime scene was secure, did 6 you begin your video walk?through? 7 A I did. 8 And so are you the one who operates the 9 camera? 10 A Yes, ma'am. ll And do you shoot the video continuously 12 during your walk?through or do you stop it at 13 certain points? 14 A Once I start the actual scene video, I do 15 continue one continuous video. 16 Did you do that in this case? 17 A Yes, ma'am. 18 Now, you mentioned that typically as you 19 are going, is there audio on the video? 20 A There is. 21 You are not narrating anything? 22 A No, ma'am. 23 And so you can hear things in the 24 background, but you're not speaking on the video? 25 A Correct. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 53 Any other officers that are narrating 2 what's going on? 3 A No, ma'am. 4 And so after you did this video 5 walk?through, again, where did you start the video 6 walk?through? 7 A I believe if you want to look at the 8 picture of the crime scene as a rectangle, I started 9 at the southwest corner, moved east to northeast to 10 northwest in a counter clockwise motion. ll Okay. I'm going to hand you what we have 12 marked, and I want to make something clear on the 13 record, I believe the last time we met there was one 14 item that was marked as an evidentiary item, it was 15 a report for that witness. Just because to make it 16 clear, that was, I think, marked State's Exhibit 1, 17 which is typically what we do in cases. But because 18 this is a grand jury exhibit, we're going to use 19 different, call it something different. 20 So we will at some point re?mark that 2l report, which was State's Exhibit 1 and that will be 22 Grand Jury Exhibit 1. Okay, it is State's Exhibit, 23 it has the typical red sticker that has State's 24 Exhibit, but it will say GJ 1. We are going to mark 25 all of ours GJ and then a sequential number. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 54 1 So I'm going to hand you what I have 2 marked as GJ 2. 3 (Grand Jury Exhibit 2 marked for 4 identification.) 5 (By Ms. Alizadeh) That's a two page 6 document. Do you recognize that? 7 A Yes, ma'am. 8 Is that your diagram of the crime scene? 9 A It is. 10 And that's the top page, correct? 11 A Yes. 12 And then the second page, what is that? 13 A Page two is a legend and it has 14 measurement details and starting points and 15 measurements. 16 Okay. And does this represent the crime 17 scene that you diagrammed on that day? 18 A Yes. 19 As I'm not offering a piece of evidence 20 like I would in trial, I'm just going to put it up 21 here for your benefit. And I'm going to have to 22 move this for a second. I'm also at this time going 23 to pass out copies of this diagram and the legend 24 that's attached to it. And as I said, if you would 25 just put your on it somewhere in the Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 55 i corner and try to avoid making any marks on it or i 2 notes. 3 These numbers, these things are kind 4 of tiny, it might help if you can look at your own 5 version, your own copy. 6 Can you see okay from where you are 7 sitting? 8 A I cannot see the left?hand side of it. 9 Okay. If you would bring your chair, 10 maybe sit next to here. I don't want you to block ll the view, I'm going to get out of the way too once 12 get this situated. 13 As best I can show that, can 14 everybody see it? I'm going to move out of the wayprojector so it 16 is displayed on the wall. I have a laser pointer 17 and so do you, Detective 18 A Yes. 19 Can you describe, this is the street you 20 are talking about Canfield, correct? 2l A Yes, ma'am. 22 And we see a directional arrow at the 23 corner at the top right? 24 A Yes, indicating north. 25 Okay. And so if you were to drive in this Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 56 i 1 direction, you are going west? i 2 A Correct. 3 Toward West Florissant? 4 A Yes, ma'am. 5 As you drive in this direction, you are 6 driving east, deeper into the apartment complex? 7 A Yes. 8 And it eventually comes out and goes? 9 A A_subdivision, I think it goes into 10 another apartment complex and then into a ll subdivision. 12 Okay. And so when you arrived, you have 13 listed or diagrammed here what is a vehicle? 14 A Yes, that is Darren Wilson's police car. 15 And then you also diagrammed what appears 16 to be a body? 17 A Yes, that is Michael Brown's body. 18 And then these boxes that are here that 19 have numbers, it says Canfield? 20 A Those are the two apartment buildings that 2l we used as reference points for areas that we 22 collected items of evidence. I can note out the 23 addresses on here, I have it listed and 24 from west to east. They are actually descending, so 25 both of these buildings, while they are one Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 57 1 building, it contains two addresses. 2 So the first address, this side off 3 the left hand or west end would be the east 4 end would be . So it is descending from west to 5 east. 6 Okay. So now what is this object here 7 that you've drawn? 8 A This is an entrance to a parking lot and 9 this is actually kind of a grassy hill. 10 So a vehicle could pull into this area ll here and enter a parking lot? 12 A Yes, ma'am. 13 And then what about this right here? 14 A Same thing, this is a, this is an entrance 15 to a parking lot for this building, this is an 16 entrance to the parking lot for this building, and 17 this right here is another entrance to a parking lot 18 for a building. 19 So where you've got an arrow points to 20 Copper Creek Court, that is a driveway that enters a 21 parking area? 22 A Yes, ma'am. 23 That residents would park? 24 A Correct. 25 And so when you are beginning to process Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 58 your crime scene, you start, do you start by taking 2 measurements? 3 A No, measurements are the last thing that 4 we do. 5 Okay. And so in this particular case 6 after you completed the video walk?through, what do 7 you do next? 8 A Um, after we do the video walk?through, I 9 would take overall scene photos of exactly how the 10 scene is when you arrived before placing down ll placards or anything that I would do to assist in my 12 investigation. 13 And so you take those photographs 14 yourselfthat, do you use a department 17 issued digital camera to do that? 18 A Yes, ma'am. 19 Does that camera have a memory card? 20 A It does. 21 And after you take these photos, what do 22 you do with the memory card? 23 A The memory card is placed into a photo 24 envelope and then taken to our departments photo 25 lab. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 59 i Now, when you're processing the crime scene and you are taking photographs, do you ever LUMP delete a photograph like if you take it and you look Lb at it and you see that's blurry or doesn't show what you wanted it to show? A No, ma'am. When the flash goes off, that picture is what it is. And so if you hit that shutter button 300 9 times, you have 300 pictures that you send to the 10 photo lab? ll A Yes, ma'am. 12 Whether it comes out blurry or 13 unrecognizable, it is going to be printed, correct? 14 A Right. 15 So after the photo lab, and then let me 16 ask you this, do you edit those photos in any way, 17 do you on your camera, do you use color contrast or 18 do anything to edit the image that you are taking? 19 A No, ma'am, I do not. 20 And after that card then goes to the lab, 2l does the lab print up your photos? 22 A Yes. 23 Do they call you up and say hey, Matt, 24 photos are ready? 25 A For homicide scenes, part of our protocol Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 60 is we stamp each individual photo as an official 2 photograph, but yes, they download our photographs 3 from our memory card to their servers and then for 4 homicide scenes and other various scenes where stuff 5 is requested they print out 8 lOs that we come 6 down and stamp. 7 (Deposition Exhibit Number 3 8 marked for identification.) 9 (By Ms. Alizadeh) Okay. So I'm going to 10 hand you what I've marked as GJ 3, which is a yellow ll envelope. Do you recognize your handwriting on 12 that? 13 A Yes, ma'am. 14 And when you received that, did that 15 envelope contain photographs? 16 A I filled out this envelope and I put the 17 photographs in here. 18 And the photographs that you put in there, 19 were they the photographs that you took on the scene 20 at Canfield that day? 21 A Yes, ma'am. 22 And you looked at each photograph 23 individually? 24 A I did. 25 And stamped them with your stamp? Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 61 A Correct. 2 And initialed them and number each one 3 individually, correct? 4 A Yes. 5 On the outside of that envelope, does it 6 say how many photographs you took? 7 A 161. 8 Did you go through those photographs and 9 assure yourself that there are 161 photographs in 10 there? ll A Yes, ma'am. 12 I'm going to remove these photographs. 13 And these photographs are not individually marked 14 with stickers. So I'm just going to hand you the 15 stack first and you had indicated that you put your 16 stamp on the back? 17 A Yes, ma'am. 18 And typically write the number and your 19 initials, you didn't on that one? 20 A I didn't put the initial on that one. 2l Okay. Let's look at the first one and 22 this is depicting what? 23 A This would typically be your first and 24 last picture and anything that's seen, it is crime 25 scene information board. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 62 1 And so I'm going to put this up there. 2 This has the date, the complaint number, which is 3 what, what's the complaint? 4 A Complaint number is basically your report 5 number. I particularly put the county complaint 6 number, which is denoted by our municipal code, 7 which is 99, so our report number would be 8 99?14?43984. The smaller number you see lower right 9 is Ferguson's complaint number, their mini code is 10 33?14?12391. 11 The 99 is for county number? 12 A That denotes county number. 13 33 is Ferguson? 14 A Yes. 15 And 14 is 2014? 16 A Correct. 17 Whatever sequential number is the next one 18 up in the hopper is the number you get? 19 A Yes, ma'am. 20 So you've indicated the incident assault 21 on 22 A Correct. 23 And then detective DSN, that stands for? 24 A Departmental serial number, which is slang 25 for badge number. FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 3 14-241-67 5 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 63 Each officer has their own 2 A Yes, ma'am. 3 You are 4 A Correct. 5 Now, just so the jurors can see, I'm going 6 to turn this over and you said that you stamp each 7 photograph with your stamp and it says initial 8 photograph St. Louis County Police Department 9 Detective and your DSN, correct? 10 A Yes, ma'am. ll And then it says badge number? 12 A Image number. 13 Image, okay, and then your initials? 14 A Correct. 15 So there you have written the number one? 16 A Yes. 17 And neglected to put your initialed on 18 there? 19 A I did. 20 But you recall taking this photo of the 21 placard, correct? 22 A Yes, ma'am. 23 Now, I want to draw your attention also 24 because this will become information later, there's 25 some printing on the back of this photo that looks Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 64 1 like it is computer generated? 2 A Yes. 3 I'm going to turn it around because it is 4 upside down. Does this printing print out on each 5 photograph as it comes out of the printer at the 6 lab? 7 A It does. 8 So it says on there that's St. 9 Louis County Police Department, correct? 10 A Yes, ma'am. 11 And then it says DOS, and then there's a 12 four digit number? 13 A Correct. 14 And on this photograph it says 0001? 15 A Yes, ma'am. 16 And the one is circled, did you circle 17 that? 18 A I did. 19 And then it says dot 20 A Yes. 21 And then it says 0001 again; is that 22 right? 23 A Yes. 24 So the printing that appears on the back 25 of each photo, does it sequentially number these as Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 65 i 1 0001 and then the next one in order would be 0002 i 2 and so forth? 3 A As far as the DSC number, that's the 4 number of the photograph on the file card. So this 5 picture is number one, the next picture would be 6 number two. 7 Okay. 8 A The second number that you see 0001, those 9 are not always going to be in sequential order for 10 this stack. Different things number, this one 11 printed up three separate copies. So while this 12 picture will always be number one, the next picture 13 may have number four or number eight, whatever 14 number that photo was print off. 15 If they printed up four photos of 16 that one, it would also be DSC1, the second set of 17 numbers could be 001 through 4, depending on which 18 number it was in the stack. 19 Okay. So the number that you circled, 20 which is the first number, that's what we are 21 talking about, this is your first photo? 22 A Yes, ma'am. There are several ways to 23 stamp the back of these. Some officers just use the 24 official photograph stamp and would just circle that 25 number as the image number. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 66 i 1 So when you went through each of these i 2 photographs, did you check to make sure you had each 3 of the 161 photos in sequential order? 4 A Yes, ma'am. 5 And then after determining that, you put 6 your initials typically and you write the number on 7 the photograph? 8 A Yes, ma'am. 9 Not every detective does that? 10 A No. 11 So we're just going do go through these. 12 That was Image Number 1, which was your placard that 13 you do at the beginning of every? 14 A And the first and last photographs. 15 Okay. So I'm going to put up here, I'm 16 not going to do this on everyone, but just to show 17 you guys there's the number two, correct? 18 A Yes. 19 And then again on this photo it has got 20 0002 on there? 21 A Yes. 22 This is the second picture you took, 23 correct? 24 A Yes, ma'am. 25 And after having looked at all of these Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 67 1 photos, do you feel that these photos accurately 2 depicted the scene as you saw it that day? 3 A For the most part, yes, ma'am. 4 Okay. I want to make sure I get the whole 5 photo. There we go. 6 And so in Image Number 2, can you 7 describe what is depicted there? And you can use 8 your pointer if you want. 9 A Okay. 10 I'm going to get out of the way. ll A This would be the first photo that we took 12 after the initial walk?through and the walk?through 13 with the video. Some of the things that this video 14 shows overall number one, here is where my crime 15 scene van is parked. The traffic cones that you see 16 are things that were set in place prior to my 17 arrival. 18 Different pieces of evidence, 19 Ferguson officers or anyone else officer wise that 20 were there that knew part of the story of the scene 21 would denote that, you know, just kind of make sure 22 hey, this is where this is at or make sure no one 23 steps on it or moves it. 24 Let me stop you here, Detective. 25 A Yes, ma'am. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 68 I know some able to see the entire image because of the way that LUMP screen is recessed into the wall. So first of all, Lb these photos will all be available to you to handle and look at at any time you want to see them, but if you feel that you can't see, you want to move your chair around here and again, if you are asking questions, just state your juror number, it doesn't 9 matter if you are in order, just as long as you 10 state your juror number. ll A So this perspective where I'm standing is 12 also where I started the video walk?through. It is 13 the southwest corner of the scene. 14 You can see this is Officer Wilson's 15 car, down here you can see another Ferguson vehicle 16 and another Ferguson vehicle down at the eastern 17 end. Those are cars that were there when I showed 18 up to start my investigation. So again, when I show 19 up, I try not to move anything because I photograph 20 how I come into a scene. 21 Those vehicles were not there at the 22 time of the incident, they were placed there by 23 Ferguson officers to help secure a crime scene and 24 to block views of Michael Brown's body. 25 So Michael Brown's body is in between Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 69 i 1 those two Ferguson police cars and those are SUVs, i 2 correct? 3 A Yes, ma'am. And you can see the corner of 4 an orange body screen between the two cars, that is 5 something that I set up after my arrival to assist 6 in blocking views. 7 Why do you do that? 8 A A number of reasons one, privacy. Two, 9 seeing a dead body in the middle of the street is 10 often disturbing to a lot of people. It is out of II respect for the victim, out of respect for the 12 family, out of respect for everyone to just kind of 13 take away a visual sign of stress more than 14 anything. 15 You learned at some point that family 16 members of Michael Brown had arrived at the scene, 17 correct? 18 A Yes, ma'am. 19 Were they allowed to enter the crime 20 scene? 21 A Initially, no. I think towards the end, 22 not towards the end, but when the medical examiner 23 had arrived and were getting ready to move the body, 24 I believe Michael Brown's father, I think, but a 25 family member was allowed to step inside while we, Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 70 the crime scene, while we removed his body as part 2 of the investigation. 3 So keeping anyone out, including family 4 members, that's all because you want this crime 5 scene to be as pristine and undisturbed as possible, 6 correct? 7 A That's our goal, yes. 8 And so at this point, about how long into 9 you being on the scene are we now? 10 A If I arrived or so, probably find the ll time stamp on this photo, it is no less than an hour 12 after I arrived just because in between this photo 13 being taken and my arrival was when the gunshots 14 were fired a second time close to the crime scene 15 and everything was put on hold. 16 Now, this shooting occurred at 17 approximately what time? 18 A I think I was told l2zl4, l2zl5. 19 A little after noon? 20 A Yes, ma'am. 21 And were you present when the body was 22 removed? 23 A Yes. 24 And would it be fair to say that it was 25 almost four hours later before the body was removed? Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 71 1 A Yes. 2 Is that unusual that a deceased person 3 would be left at the scene for that long of period 4 of time? 5 A No, ma'am, that is fairly common, almost 6 routine. 7 And in this case, you mentioned that there 8 were a number of times where everybody had to kind 9 of stop what they were doing because the scene was 10 becoming dangerous? 11 A Yes, ma'am. Not only do you have to take 12 into the fact what we were dealing with at the scene 13 security and personal safety, but St. Louis County, 14 who was requested to the scene to investigate, we 15 were not notified until almost an hour afterwards. 16 If you look at the time of four hours as a whole, we 17 only got there a little after 1:00 to start our 18 investigation. 19 Okay. So now in the photograph, I would 20 imagine it is fairly clear to everyone, this is the 21 driver's side of this vehicle, correct? 22 A Yes, ma'am. 23 And it is facing west, towards West 24 Florissant, correct? 25 A Correct. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 72 If everyone can look at your diagram, you 2 diagram that as the vehicle, the rear left tire is 3 over the double yellow lines; is that right? 4 A Yes, ma'am. 5 Now, this tape that's wrapped around this 6 vehicle, did you put that tape on there? 7 A No, ma'am. 8 All right. Would you have typically done 9 that? 10 A No. ll So that was done before your arrival? 12 A Yes. 13 Okay. And so you left it there and that's 14 how you photographed it? 15 A Correct. 16 That's how it was when you got there? 17 A Yes. 18 And then these cones you talked about, 19 these were placed before you got there? 20 A Yes, ma'am. 21 And during your walk?through with the 22 Ferguson officer as you said, would you say why 23 these cones were placed in various locations? 24 A Yes, ma'am. 25 If you all have a question about a Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 73 particular photograph, rather than having to say can 2 we see that one again that had the blank, blank, 3 blank, ask it now, probably make this go smoother. 4 Yes? 5 this may be 6 answered later, I don't know. I just want to know 7 why is the door closed, do we have any idea why the 8 door of the SUV was closed or was it reentered? 9 MS. ALTZADEH: That will probably be 10 addressed by other people. This detective wasn't ll present beforehand and as he had said, his statement 12 is this is how it was when he got there. So there 13 will be other witnesses who are going to be called 14 to testify being first on the scene, what they saw, 15 whether they photographed anything, but that's the 16 way he observed it. 17 Any other questions about Image Number 2? 18 (By Ms. Alizadeh) Image Number 3, again, 19 it has got your three on there. Describe what that 20 image shows? 2l A This is kind of, I moved east 22 from the first viewpoint, and typically what I would 23 do when I'm photographing an overall scene 24 photograph, I would stand in one spot and just pan 25 my camera taking this angle, 1 twist, this angle, Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 74 twist, twist. So if you can picture laying four 2 pictures out side by side, you would get, in 3 essence, a panoramic view of the scene. 4 And I would do this at this point, in 5 the middle of the side of street, at the other end, 6 go to the other side and just do the same thing. It 7 is called bracketing photos. 8 Okay. And so this is just a 9 different angle from the previous image. You see 10 your that's your van there? ll A Yes, ma'am. 12 On the left side of the image, correct? 13 A Correct. 14 MS. ALIZADEH: Okay. Anyone have any 15 questions about this? 16 (By Ms. Alizadeh) Image Number 4. 17 A Again, this would be, the left side of 18 this picture would be the tail end of Darren l9 Wilson's car, again, looking farther east. 20 Okay. Now, I think if you can see, this 21 is crime tape; is that right? 22 A Yes, ma'am. 23 Police tape, and does it appear that there 24 is police tape back there as well? 25 A Yes, initially when we arrived, this first Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 75 i piece of crime scene tape was the barrier to the i 2 crime scene. After several people had torn down the 3 crime scene tape, run onto the scene, the gunshots 4 being fired, the crowd would run from this building 5 in particular from this side of the crime scene, 6 around this building, through the parking lot to 7 this side of the crime scene, depending on what was 8 happening. 9 We had an opening where the crowd had 10 run to the eastern end of the crime scene. So ll several people moved crime 12 scene tape farther back into the parking lot to try 13 to keep people farther away from the crime scene. 14 Okay. So that was done not because you 15 determined that somehow this area was now a part of 16 the crime scene, it was done to keep the crowd from 17 encroaching upon the crime scene? 18 A Yes, ma'am. 19 So there's no particular processing of 20 this scene, you didn't suddenly say I'm going to go 21 and photograph and walk around this area? 22 A No, ma'am. The only thing I think that we 23 did in that area was film a witness' perspective 24 with our video cameras and that is even farther back 25 from where that crime scene tape is set. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 76 3 MS. ALIZADEH: Anyone have any questions about this image? LUMP (By Ms. Alizadeh) And this is image number Lb five. Can you describe for them what you're seeing, what this image depicts? A From this angle, I think you are going to start to see that I am in the middle of what I would deem the crime scene looking east on the south side, 9 I'm sorry, looking west from the south side of the 10 road, and I will start kind of a pan from my left to ll my right. 12 Again, you can see Darren Wilson's 13 police car, the cone that had been set up, my crime 14 scene van and then I had mentioned before my crime 15 scene van was just inside the initial crime scene 16 tape. You can see a crowd of people gathering there 17 on top of this hill and, of course, you can see the 18 amount of vehicle traffic that is now blocking l9 Canfield. 20 Okay. So the first series of photos you 2l were closer to this area to where this police 22 officer is, and you walk down here and take another 23 series of bracketing photographs? 24 A Yes, ma'am. 25 MS. ALIZADEH: Any questions about that? Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 77 (By Ms. Alizadeh) Number 6. 2 A Similar image as before, I had just tilted 3 a little bit so now you can see Darren Wilson's car 4 is on the left side of the photo and I'm panning to 5 my right, or to the east. 6 Image Number 7? 7 A The center of the crime scene. I am 8 basically in the middle looking from south to the 9 north across Canfield. 10 MS. ALIZADEH: Any questions? ll (By Ms. Alizadeh) Image Number 8. Can you 12 describe what you see in there? 13 A Same scene or same location, I've now 14 turned further to the east. This is, I believe this 15 is Caddiefield, at the intersection of Canfield and 16 Caddiefield. A Ferguson police car, an SUV was not 17 described to me, was not there at the scene, it was 18 put in place to block the body. 19 Where the white sheet is laying 20 between this police car and the orange body screens 2l is Michael Brown's body. 22 I'm not sure what department vehicle 23 that is, again, it is a police SUV used to block 24 this street and to assist with security at the crime 25 scene. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 78 So the two vehicles you see in this 2 picture as far as you know had nothing to do with 3 the incident? 4 A Yes, ma'am. 5 Image Number 9. 6 A Now, I'm now standing, if you get the 7 perspective, the Ferguson SUV that was in the middle 8 of the street is directly to my right now. I'm 9 looking back west on Canfield. This is Officer 10 Wilson's SUV. ll MS. ALIZADEH: Any questions? 12 (By Ms. Alizadeh) Number 10? 13 A Same view, I've stepped into the street a 14 little farther this time. You can see this is the 15 back of the vehicle that was blocking Michael 16 Brown's body. 17 ll? 18 A Standing in the same place looking east. 19 I turned my camera to the north, that's the tail end 20 of the same vehicle that you saw in the previous 21 picture. 22 So this is looking north as you are 23 standing on Canfield? 24 A Correct. 25 And so Michael Brown's body would be Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 79 i outside of the frame on the right? i 2 A Yes, ma'am. 3 Image Number 12. 4 A I've now turned, same viewpoint looking to 5 the east. You can see the Ferguson police vehicle 6 blocking this end of the crime scene, several cones 7 that were placed out prior to my arrival marking 8 evidence that they had located. Under the sheet is 9 where Michael Brown's body is located. The sheet 10 was also placed there prior to my arrival. ll The orange body screens are things 12 that I added to the scene when I arrived to assist 13 in our investigation. 14 From your perspective, the other Ferguson 15 vehicle that was blocking the scene was in this 16 direction; is that correct? 17 A Yes, ma'am, it would be over my left 18 shoulder. 19 That hasn't been removed from the scene? 20 A No, ma'am, it is still there. 21 Number l3. 22 A Same standard view, I've moved from the 23 street level back across the sidewalk to show a 24 wider perspective. Again you see, you get a better 25 look at the different cones were set up marking the Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 80 evidence around it. 2 And just to clarify, this here is that 3 Copper Creek Court on your diagram? 4 A Yes, ma'am. 5 So vehicles can drive up here and park 6 back here, right? 7 A Yes. 8 Number l4? 9 A Standing further east looking back west 10 you can see now that there is crime scene tape ll between this, my viewpoint and Michael Brown, give 12 you a wider, overall perspective of the crime scene. 13 You are still looking west on Canfield 14 towards West Florissant? 15 A Yes, ma'am. 16 So this vehicle, again, is not involved in 17 the crime scene, it is blocking? 18 A Correct. The vehicle that you see in the 19 far end of this photograph that's angled is Officer 20 Darren Wilson's car. 21 Now, in the image, what is this thing 22 right here on the ground? 23 A This is a sand weight that is used to 24 weigh down these body screens. They are made out of 25 extreme light PVC and cloth, so any type of breeze Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 81 1 would move them. You can see that there are several 2 weights holding down the feet of the body screens 3 that are up. This is one that was just left there 4 while we were there. 5 That is yours? 6 A It is. 7 But not part of the crime scene? 8 A Correct. 9 Number 15? 10 A Same viewpoint. I think I just turned a 11 little bit to the north side again because in the 12 last picture, you could see Officer Darren Wilson's 13 car to the far end, I'm just panning to my right. 14 16? 15 A I've now moved to the north side of the 16 street and I'm looking south. This is the car that 17 was used to block the view of the body, the body 18 screens that assembled and set up. Again, the 19 body screen weight that was left at the scene, 20 Michael Brown's body is behind these screens, this 21 is Caddiefield that you can probably see in your 22 diagram, 1 think. 23 And now we see the crime scene tape along 24 here and running across here. These people back 25 here are just a part of the crowd that's gathered? Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 82 A Yes, ma'am. 2 Approximately how many people, if you had 3 to guess, bystanders that were just there? 4 A In that photograph? 5 Just overall? 6 A Altogether, 3 to 400. 7 I'm going to show you Image Number 17. 8 A Same viewpoint, on the north side of the 9 street looking south. Again, the body screens and 10 then this vehicle here is Darren Wilson's police ll car. 12 Now, at any time during the time you were 13 processing the scene, did you feel that anybody, 14 whether it was a police officer or a citizen in any 15 way suggested that you not perform your duties the 16 way you thought they should be performed? 17 A No. 18 Were you ever told don't photograph this 19 or in any way did you feel that someone was trying 20 to influence you to do something other than what you 21 felt you would typically do? 22 A No, ma'am, not at all. 23 Looking at Number 18. 24 A Same viewpoint, I've now turned almost 25 completely east. This is the vehicle blocking Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 83 Michael Brown's body. His body would be just to the left out of frame and this is Darren Wilson's police LUMP car. Ah I have a question, are you by yourself as you are walking around doing these photographs or anybody with you? A During the video process of it, since it is a continuous video, at this particular scene I 9 typically would have one person, another crime scene 10 detective that is assisting me walk with me, ll basically with a hand on my shoulder making sure I 12 don't trip over something in a hallway or a street, 13 because I'm looking directly at that view finder so 14 I can get the perspective I want to. 15 This particular case there was, I was 16 running the video and I had three other crime scene, 17 two other detectives and my detective sergeant. One 18 was guiding me so I didn't trip or step on anything, 19 the other two to get the perspective for the video. 20 I had to get very close to the crowd. So the two 2l people that were assisting him were making sure the 22 crowd wasn't going to grab, push, throw, do 23 something to us. 24 Okay. 25 A Short answer no, I don't do videos by Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 84 myself, photographs I do, I do by myself. 2 (By Ms. Alizadeh) You make the 3 determination in what's being photographed, nobody 4 says take a picture of this, don't take a picture of 5 this? 6 A Correct. 7 They might point out? 8 A They can point out something that they 9 would like to have a photograph of as part of their 10 investigation. But never have I been told don't ll photograph this. 12 Okay. Number 19? 13 A This is from the same view point as the 14 previous picture. We use l8 to 35 millimeter l5 lenses. I just zoomed in to the 35 millimeter to 16 show perspective of Darren Wilson's police car. 17 Number 20? 18 A Yes. From the last perspective I have was 19 standing here looking almost directly east. l've 20 now moved to the center of the north side of 2l Canfield looking back east. Again, Caddiefield is, 22 that's the street sign for Copper Creek Court and 23 then Michael Brown's body. 24 So Darren Wilson's vehicle is down this 25 street to the right? Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 85 i 1 A Yes, ma'am. i 2 And that's 21, I believe, let me look. 3 A Yes. 4 Yes, 21? 5 A Same perspective. I've now twisted to my 6 right. Caddiefield Court would be to your left. 7 You can no longer see the street sign just looking 8 to my right. 9 Number 22. You want to hand them to me? 10 A I can, I can probably put them up on this. 11 You want to do that? 12 A I can. 13 This is number? 14 A 22. 15 22. That will make it easier. 16 A Same perspective. The vehicle that was in 17 view in the previous photograph is partially cut 18 off. I'm panning farther to my right showing my 19 bracketed part of the scene. Any questions? 20 Photo Number 23. Same as before, 21 turning farther to my right. Now you can see 22 Darren's police car within the scene and the cones 23 marking different pieces of evidence. 24 Number 24. Almost the exact same 25 photo as before. I think I may have zoomed in to Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 86 i show the area which we were looking at. a Number 25. I didn't initial it. As LUMP the perspective goes from the diagram, I'm now Lb standing on the northwest corner of the crime scene looking east, Caddiefield is on your right, Copper Creek Court is here on your left, and then the two vehicles that were blocking Michael Brown's body. Number 26. Same perspective just, 9 turning to my right bracketing the photo. 10 Number 27. Turning farther to my ll right, you can no longer see the two vehicles that 12 were blocking the body and this is the center of 13 Canfield. 14 Number 28. I'm on the north side of 15 the road facing almost directly south in the middle 16 of the crime scene. You can see on the right?hand 17 side of this photograph, the back end of Darren l8 Wilson's police car that has the crime scene tape 19 applied directly to it. The crime scene tape that 20 you see on the ground again from one of the earlier 21 photos, that was one of the crime scene tape 22 officially put after the crowd moved. They were 23 able to take that down and move that crime scene 24 perimeter back. 25 Number 29. Panning to my right Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 87 further, the previous picture you could see the tail end of the car. Here again is the police car in its LUMP entirety and the tape had been torn down. Lb Number 30. I've now moved farther to the west. Still on the north side of the street, this is the front end of Darren Wilson's police car. Now, let me stop you here. As a part of the scene like this type of scene, if you had noted 9 or scene, for example, tire marks, whether they are 10 skid marks or marks in the grass indicating ll possibly, you know, the travel of the vehicle, the 12 speed it was traveling and so forth, and you're not 13 an accident reconstruction person, correct? 14 A No, ma'am. 15 If you had seen tire tracks, like skid 16 marks around this vehicle, would you have documented 17 those? 18 A Yes, that would have been something that I 19 would have recognized as probably important to the 20 scene. No tire tracks of any sort, any skid marks 21 or I didn't notice any and none were brought to my 22 attention and I didn't document anything. 23 And in preparation for your testimony 24 today, did you and I look in these photographs and 25 did you look to see if you could see in those Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 88 1 photographs? 2 A We did, yes. 3 Did you see any type of tire marks or skid 4 marks? 5 A No, it was images that we looked at that 6 had closer views of the tires on his police car that 7 were actually focused on pieces of evidence, and we 8 could not see any type of skid or tread mark 9 anywhere. 10 And those pictures are included in your ll batch of pictures? 12 A Yes, ma'am. 13 Ms. WHIRLEY: Was it brought to your 14 attention, this is Sheila Whirley, was it brought to 15 your attention that you should look for skid marks. 16 A At the scene? 17 MS. WHIRLEY: Yes. 18 A No, ma'am. 19 MS. WHIRLEY: Okay. 20 A Number 31. Same perspective where I had 21 moved, I could see in front of Darren Wilson's 22 police car. Now looking back farther to the east, 23 kind of bracketing photos from my right to my left 24 this time. 25 Number 32. Same perspective. Turned Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 89 i from the northwest corner looking almost directly i 2 east. 3 Number 33. Same perspective again, 4 18 to 35 millimeter lenses. 1 just zoomed in that 5 perspective to give you an idea what we were looking 6 at farther down the street. 7 (By Ms. Alizadeh) So you didn't actually 8 walk closer to that scene? 9 A No, ma'am. Just zoomed in from the 10 previous perspective. ll Number 34, the first group of 12 pictures were what we refer to as my overall photos 13 of everything. Now is when I would typically start 14 taking my individual photos of items of evidence. 15 Okay. So can you describe what number is 16 this, 34? 17 A This is number 34, yes. 18 What is this picture and why you took it? 19 A Okay. As a procedural thing, if I'm going 20 to do my evidence in order, you can see now you will 21 see the yellow evidence tents are placed down 22 throughout the scene. In particular number one. In 23 a perfect world, you would take a photograph of 24 evidence number one, you move to number two, number 25 three just to keep everything in order and that's Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 90 the order that we find things. There is not 2 necessarily a rule or law that says the item that 3 you see first has to be number one and everything 4 has to go in order. 5 It could very well, for instance, in 6 this scene, if I marked number one and number three, 7 or that's number two there, I could mark 1 through 8 30 and then when we're getting ready to go find a 9 shell casing on the other side of number one and 10 have that be evidence item number 31. So it is not ll necessarily in the physical space things are 12 numbered, they are numbered how we find them. 13 So during the first series of photographs 14 that we've seen and that was kind of your 15 walk?through of the scene? 16 A Yes, ma'am. 17 Did you take a break and then place 18 placards in areas or were those placards visible in 19 your earlier photographs? 20 A No, they are not visible in the overall 21 photographs. The overall photographs I take right 22 after the video is done to show an overall view in 23 pictures, not just video, of what the scene looks 24 like when I arrived. 25 So after you've got done with the overall Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 91 walk?through photographs. 2 A Yes, ma'am. 3 Is that when you then go through the scene 4 and put placards down? 5 A At that point I would walk through and 6 placard items that I know our evidence. Things that 7 are pointed out to me that were noted by the traffic 8 cones first responding officers put down that they 9 saw, and I would put my placards there on those 10 pieces of items. ll During that time you may notice 12 another shell casing or something else and, of 13 course, we would placard that. Once those things 14 are placard, we start taking our overall photos and I5 close?up of each placard. 16 These items that have a placard, and I 17 think maybe you can see that that is number one 18 there, does that correspond with your diagram where 19 you have a number one with a circle on it? 20 A Yes, ma'am. 21 At this point after having documented 22 these placards and you said you took measurements at 23 a later time, those items that are numbered are 24 depicted on the diagram? 25 A Correct, on the diagram. All the little Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 92 bubbles you see, and that's not the best copy of it, 2 but all the small circles that you see have a number 3 inside of them denoting that item of evidence and 4 its location at the scene. 5 And then the legend that's attached to 6 that diagram would tell you what number one is? 7 A Correct. 8 Okay. And so number one here by the tire, 9 of the front left tire of Darren Wilson's vehicle, 10 what is that? ll A I don't have my list. I'm not sure, is it 12 a bracelet? 13 Here, is this yours? 14 A It is a black and yellow bracelet. 15 And then this thing right here, number 16 two, what is that? 17 A A red baseball cap. 18 Number three? 19 A A spent .40 caliber shell casing. 20 MS. ALIZADEH: Any questions so far? 21 . Number 22 five is another black bracelet? 23 A Yes, ma'am. 24 Thank you. 25 A Okay Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 93 2 A Yes, sir. 3 When you, I guess, put the 4 placards down. 5 A Correct. 6 Was there anything that 7 you found on your own or was everything already 8 marked? 9 A No, there were several items that I found 10 on my own afterwards. ll 12 A Yes. 13 You said that three and 14 four were .40 caliber spent casings, on the list it 15 says Federal, what is meant by Federal? 16 A Federal is a brand name. Federal is the 17 name of the brand that is actually stamped on the 18 tail end of the bullet. 19 Okay. 20 MS. ALIZADEH: Any others? Okay. 21 A Image 35. 22 MS. ALIZADEH: Any time you want to take a 23 break or stand up, feel free to do so. 24 A The previous image was kind of an overall 25 view of the several placards that you could see. So Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 94 in the previous image you saw what I would term overall view. This would be an intermediate view LUMP kind of referencing where in space placard number Lb one is, you can still see the driver's front wheel of that. Image 36. This would be the close?up view of item number one. This is a hard plastic placard that's number one, that has a scale printed 9 on it to show size. And that's the black and yellow 10 white bracelet. 11 (By Ms. Alizadeh) Now at this time, do you 12 know if that bracelet has anything to do with your 13 scene or the incident? 14 A No. 15 You are photographing things, you're not 16 sure what involvement they may, they may have direct l7 relation to the incident, they may have no relation 18 to the incident? 19 A Correct. 20 Image 37. 21 Can you twist it? 22 A Yes. This would be the overall view that 23 I would show starting to zoom in on item number two, 24 again, giving reference in space how it is located 25 to Darren Wilson's vehicle. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 95 i 1 MS. ALIZADEH: I will tell all Of you that 2 when it comes time to you actually looking at the 3 photos, they are not as blurry as what you are 4 seeing up here. 5 A Thank you for clarifying that. I do take 6 better photographs than that. 7 Image 38. This would be the 8 intermediate view of evidence item number two. 9 Image 39. I think we spoke about 10 this yesterday, the evidence item placard number two ll has an asphalt mark, tar mark in the middle of the 12 placard. Has nothing to do, this is showing 13 evidence item number two, just happened to be there 14 in the photograph. 15 (By Ms. Alizadeh) This thing here to the 16 right? 17 A That is the traffic cone that was in place 18 prior to my arrival marking the location of that 19 piece of evidence. 20 So you don't remove the traffic cones when 21 you are doing this? 22 A No, ma'am. 23 . Had that 24 traffic cone not been there, would have placed that 25 placard to the right side of the cap then? Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 96 i A Probably. 2 Okay 3 A I try not to move anything when I'm 4 placing my placards. 5 Okay. 6 A Image Number 40. We were going towards, I 7 think that's item number three, again, my overall 8 view showing space where it is located on the 9 driver's side. 10 Image 41, intermediate view of item ll number three. 12 Image 42, would be my close?up view 13 of item number three, which again is the spent .40 14 caliber Federal shell casing. 15 (By Ms. Alizadeh) Nowquestion. I want to clear up something, some people 17 might perceive, are you in any way saying that that 18 was the third shot fired by giving that number 19 three? 20 A No, ma'am. 2l Are you able to determine when you are 22 collecting these shell casings in what order these 23 shell casings were fired out of a weapon? 24 A No, ma'am. 25 So each little shell casing doesn't come Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 97 with a number on it that you put in your magazine in 2 a numeric way? 3 A No, they do not. 4 It would help you if they did, correct? 5 A Tremendously so. These things, the 6 numbers, the placards in any of my photos and most 7 anyone they have nothing to do with the order in 8 which things were done during a crime. They are 9 specifically the order in which we found that piece 10 of evidence, and the number that's assigned to it is ll just to help us determine which piece of evidence it 12 is. Has no other chronological significance. 13 So in your report you refer to that this 14 is evidence item number three in the envelope it is 15 packaged in, it is denoted as evidence item number 16 three? 17 A Yes, ma'am. 18 With a description? 19 A Correct. 20 So it keeps that number? 2l A Yes. 22 This shell casing that you photographed is 23 still number three, your evidence item number three? 24 A It is my evidence item number three. 25 Okay. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 98 I don't know 2 too much about guns and stuff like that, so from 3 that shell casing, where is the front of the bullet, 4 where is the back of the bullet, can you tell me 5 what direction it is facing? 6 MS. ALIZADEH: Let me clarify something 7 here. We will have ballistics people, let me ask 8 you detective, are you trained in firearms? 9 A Yes, I am a firearms instructor for our 10 police department. ll (By Ms. Alizadeh) So you feel that it is 12 within your expertise to talk about, this is called 13 a cartridge; is that right? 14 A Casing. 15 A_casing. You are able to answer her 16 question, you feel comfortable doing that? 17 A Yes, ma'am, I can do that. 18 Okay. 19 A As far as the direction the bullet is 20 facing, I can't tell you, but as far as what you 21 would determine the front would be where the actual 22 bullet itself would come from, would be this hollow 23 end of the shell casing. 24 . You 25 talked a second about how that happens, how a Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 99 i handgun goes through that process, how casings are a ejected, it doesn't happen every time they fire a LUMP bullet. How far do you think they might travel, Lb anything about that for people that are not familiar with that? You might want to address that. MS. ALIZADEH: You know what, I would like to talk about in answer to your question is his familiarity with cartridges and shell casings and 9 projectiles and firing pins because he can testify 10 about that, but as far as like how they're ejected ll from a particular gun, how far they travel, I 12 believe we had this conversation before today, you 13 feel that is outside of your area of expertise? 14 A Far outside. 15 MS. ALIZADEH: If you want to ask him 16 questions about how, what the components what we 17 normally think of is a bullet what are the 18 components, what happens to it when it is fired, 19 think he can answer that. 20 Just to rephrase, one of 21 these casings is ejected every time this weapon is 22 fired, this particular weapon is fired, correct? 23 A If it functions properly, correct. 24 All right. 25 MS. ALIZADEH: Any other questions? Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 100 Are we also to expect all of these listings for a casing are from LUMP Officer Wilson's gun at the time. Lb MS. ALIZADEH: We will have testimony that will talked about their comparison. As you recall he talked about taking items of evidence to the lab and our laboratory has a ballistics section. So at some point you will hear about the testing that they 9 did and they will refer to this as evidence item 10 three, but to make it even more confusing for you, ll the lab will give it it's own number. It will be 12 like Q7 or something. 13 But there will always be paperwork to show 14 that this shell casing right there was picked up by 15 this officer and put in an envelope and it is 16 forever his evidence item number three. It might 17 have another lab number that the lab uses and then 18 someone who is going to testify about what they did 19 with this and what conclusions they draw from their 20 examination. 21 Okay, thank you. 22 A Image 43. This would be my overall view 23 of evidence item number four, which is down here in 24 the lower part of the photo. 25 (By Ms. Alizadeh) This is Darren Wilson's Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 101 1 vehicle? 2 A Correct, you can still see the placards 3 for one, two and three. 4 Okay. 5 A Image 44. In the previous image I was 6 standing on the southern side of the road looking 7 north, and you can see item number four. 8 What they typically will do again in 9 a perfect world is you always try to angle your 10 placards all facing the same direction. So if you 11 are standing in the middle of the road, you can see 12 the number of each one because they are basically a 13 triangle. And turned to the side you can't see what 14 number it is on. 15 So in this photo all I did was turn 16 or moved to my left a little bit so you can see the 17 front of the evidence placard. 18 Can I ask you, and you can see it also in 19 Image Number 43, and you can kind of see it in this 20 image, but there is a thing that's down here that's 21 yellow? 22 A I believe that is actually a knotted up 23 piece of crime scene tape. 24 So that's not a placard? 25 A No, ma'am, it is not a placard. I believe Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 102 I initially that was laying down somewhere around here 2 near this item number four, which is another shell 3 casing. When and/or something moved or threw it 4 down on the sidewalk. 5 So that yellow thing right there has no, 6 as far as you know, no evidentiary value? 7 A Correct. 8 You didn't seize it or package it? 9 A No, ma'am. 10 Okay. ll A Image 45. Close?up view of item number 12 four, another spent shell casing. 13 Image 46. I've now moved over to the 14 northern side of the street and this is my overall 15 view of evidence item number five. 16 Again, in a perfect world, the 17 attempt is made to photograph items of evidence in 18 the order that I find them. 19 Image 47. Intermediate view of 20 placard number five. 21 Image 48. Clarify this as again 22 another intermediate view. You can still see part 23 of Darren Wilson's police car, be it that may be a 24 running board somewhere at the bottom of his 25 vehicle, again, placard number five. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 103 Image 49. Close?up view of the 2 vehicle, the bottom of the vehicle can no longer be 3 seen. My evidence placard and then a black beaded 4 bracelet. 5 Image Number 50. This, looking at 6 the next photo, this is an overall view of evidence 7 item number eight, I think the last one we had was 8 number five. Again, the ideal world you can 9 photograph everything in sequential order. I 10 believe items number six and seven were farther down ll the street. So at the time that this photo was 12 taken, I didn't want to move down the street and 13 then move back. Eight and nine were right in front 14 of the car. 15 I stayed in this area to continue 16 with the photograph, this overall view. What we are 17 looking at here is a red stain on the driver's door. 18 Image 51. You can see this is what 19 we would use as a placard. There is some adhesive 20 removable stickers that are numbered one through 21 zero or one through nine and zero that we can make 22 combination of numbers. Obviously, this is 23 something that we would typically stick on a vehicle 24 or a window or something that we can't stick a 25 placard onto, just to number in our photographs as Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 104 evidence item number eight. It is denoting a red stain below that. LUMP 52, Image 52. This would be the Ab close?up view and again, it is not in focus with the projector, but you can see that the placard number eight is there, it has a small scale and items of this nature. We would typically insert my own visual scale in the photo to show size and shape of 9 whichever item I'm photographing at that time. 10 Now, Detective all of these systems ll so far that you've testified about are all things 12 that you at some point picked up and put them in an 13 envelope and packaged them, correct? 14 A Yes, ma'am. 15 So this is a red stain that is on the side 16 of a vehicle, correct? 17 A Yes. 18 Did you seize that? 19 A I did. 20 And how do you seize something like that? 21 A This particular piece of evidence, we call 22 it a red stain, it was actually kind of, I don't 23 want to use the term fleshy, but it wasn't like a 24 liquid. I was actually able to seize that with a 25 pair of tweezers. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 105 i So that red thing just kind of peeled off i 2 the car? 3 A It came off completely, yes. 4 And you packaged that substance or 5 whatever it was? 6 A Yes, ma'am. 7 Was, in your experience with working with, 8 for example, you know, blood stains or blood 9 spatters, did it appear as if it was a blood droplet 10 or spatterwas something else? 13 A Something else. 14 All right. 15 A Image 53. Overall view, what this is 16 looking at this is obviously, not obviously, still 17 the driver's side of the vehicle, rear passenger 18 door, the rear tire here. You can see the placard I 19 put on there. Again, was an adhesive sticker for 20 number nine. It is covered up partially by the 21 police crime scene tape that was applied by Ferguson 22 prior to our arrival. 23 So to find that item number nine, you 24 actually lifted up the crime scene tape to look at 25 the vehicle, but then once you placed a placard on Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 106 i the car, you put the crime scene tape back where it i 2 was? 3 A Yes, ma'am. 4 So you did move something on the crime 5 scene, but only to search for evidence? 6 A Yes, ma'am. 7 Image 54. You can see this 8 photograph, crime scene tape is no longer there and 9 basically what's happening is I am holding the crime 10 scene tape up with my left hand and taking the ll picture with my right hand. 12 And what is Exhibit 9 or what is your item 13 number? 14 A Number 9 is a red stain on the exterior of 15 the driver's side rear door. 16 Okay. On the driver's side rear door? 17 A Yes, ma'am. 18 It is a four door vehicle? 19 A Correct. A lot of times people use left, 20 right sided vehicle, that often still confuses me. 21 I use driver and passenger side. 22 This would be a close?up view of the 23 red stain on the driver's side rear door. Again, 24 adhesive sticker, and the evidence below it. 25 Image 56, this would be the previous Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 107 photo was shot more at an angle or somewhat of an 2 angle. This you can see the crime scene tape, I can 3 no longer hold it up with my left hand and hold my 4 scale and tape. So I pushed it down below the item 5 of evidence so I can again put my scale into the 6 photograph so you can show the size and shape of the 7 red stain. 8 Now, did you seize that item number nine? 9 A Yes, this particular piece of evidence 10 appeared to be some type of dried liquid. I was ll able to collect it with a DNA swab. 12 So do you have swabs that you carry in 13 your van? 14 A Yes, ma'am, sterile swabs from the 15 manufacturer, sterilized water that oversized professional Q?Tipsit, that piece of evidence we were able 18 just to collect it with a Q?Tip and put it into a 19 package and submit it. 20 The entire time you are at the crime 21 scene, are you wearing latex gloves? 22 A Yes, 90, 95 percent of the time if I'm at 23 my van doing paperwork, it is not always easy to 24 write paperwork, but any time I leave my van, 25 majority of the time between collecting different Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 108 items of evidence, you change gloves between those 2 items. 3 So the tools that you use to collect this 4 are in a kit that the police department purchases 5 from a company, correct? 6 A Our crime lab. 7 Your crime lab? 8 A Yes. 9 They are sterile? 10 A Yes. ll They are specifically for the purpose of 12 collecting items that might be analyzed for DNA at a 13 future time? 14 A Yes, ma'am. 15 So no one else's DNA would have been on 16 that Q?Tip prior to you opening that package and 17 then rubbing, you said wet the Q?Tip with sterile 18 water? 19 A Yes, ma'am. 20 And then you basically rub it on that 21 stain? 22 A Correct. 23 In essence, is it somewhat, it then 24 changes that stain, correct? 25 A It does. Generally the stains that are Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 109 i that small, the stain is gone when we collect it. i 2 Okay. 3 A Obviously outside of microscopic traces 4 that would still be left on there, to the naked 5 I took that stain off of there. 6 And then regarding evidence item number 7 eight, the substance that you removed with tweezers? 8 A Yes, ma'am. 9 The tweezers that you use, are those 10 also ll A Again, supplied by our crime lab, 12 sterilized individually packaged, they came out of 13 the same DNA kit. 14 You open up those? 15 A One time use. 16 You throw them away when you're done? 17 A Yes, ma'am. 18 MS. WHIRLEY: Sheila Whirley. What do you 19 do with those items like number eight and number 20 nine that you seize once you seize them, what do you 21 do with them? 22 A Number eight, since I was able to take it 23 off with as a whole with tweezerspiece of what we refer to as way paper, kind of wax 25 paper. This is in our sterilized kit. It is folded Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page llO so it doesn't get lost. And that folded piece of wax paper is then placed inside of a coin envelope LUMP and that envelope is sealed. Lb Item number nine, since we use Q?Tips, we have these basically long Q?Tip boxes and again, they are provided by our crime lab. They come from a sterile environment, they are inside our DNA kit. You don't handle them without gloves. 9 Each individual swab, be it a touch DNA swab or 10 swabbing of a red stain or buccal swab to collect ll someone's DNA goes into its own individual swab box. 12 MS. WHIRLEY: And then what do you do with 13 it? 14 A Once they are in the swab box, they go in 15 an evidence envelope. 16 MS. WHIRLEY: For the purpose of? 17 A Sealing that as my piece of evidence and 18 taking it to the crime lab and keeping it as sterile 19 as I can. 20 MS. WHIRLEY: Thank you. That was all. 21 MS. ALIZADEH: Okay. 22 A 57. This is a series of photos that I'm 23 attempting to show the driver's side mirror being 24 pushed outside of its natural position. This is 25 something that was brought up as part of the Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 111 investigation just because we were told that there was a struggle in and/or around the police car. LUMP This was an item of evidence like hey, that mirror Lb may have been pushed during the struggle. You make sure to note that in your photos. (By Ms. Alizadeh) So this would be an example that somebody had pointed out this may have some relevance to the actual incident and so go 9 ahead and photograph that and document it? 10 A Yes, ma'am. ll So the mirror on that police car, is it a 12 mirror that can move? You don't break it by moving not broken, it is like many new 15 cars nowadays, it swivels and moves front to back. 16 If you are sitting in the driver's seat, 17 the mirror is pushed forward to the front of the 18 vehicle? 19 A Correct. 20 If you are sitting in the driver's seat, 21 you can't use that side mirror at that point to 22 check? 23 A No, you would not be able to see that. 24 All right. 25 A Image 58. Intermediate view, same Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 112 1 driver's side mirror pushed to the front. 2 And this thing right here, what's that? 3 A That would be the spotlight that's 4 accessible from the driver's side you operate with 5 your left hand. 6 Is that mirror intact or 7 is it broken? 8 A It is intact. The next photo is a little 9 bit closer the driver's 11 side window open or closed, I've haven't been able 12 to tell in the photos? 13 A It is not there right now, it is down. 14 It is open. 15 MS. ALTZADEH: Did you determine that the 16 window was broken? 17 A It had been broken out. 18 (By Ms. Alizadeh) The driver's side window 19 is broken and there is no glass in the door frame of 20 the driver's side window; is that correct? 21 A Correct. 22 And then 23 A Actually, the glass, the broken glass is 24 still within the door frame itself, but as far as 25 intact window that would be able to roll up and roll Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 113 1 down or be halfway up is not there. 2 To clarify there is no 3 glass fragments outside the car or inside the car, 4 it was all contained within the vehicle. 5 A No, we talked about this. There is 6 definitely glass inside the car. You can see broken 7 glass in the seat and the floorboard. To my 8 knowledge, I do not remember glass outside of the 9 car. 10 Image 59, it is much clearer than the 11 actual photograph, it is a closer up view of that 12 mirror. You can also see item number eight is still 13 on the car as of this time. 14 Image Number 60. Several things you 15 can see in this video again, it is still 16 (By Ms. Alizadeh) Photograph? 17 A I did say video. Image, you can see in 18 this image, you can still see the crime scene tape 19 is there. Evidence item number eight with the 20 placard or sticker is still next to it. Nine, I 21 believe, is now underneath this crime scene tape. 22 What we are focusing on in this photograph is a 23 defect to the exterior side of this door. 24 Image 61, intermediate view of the 25 same defect. This would be the handle to the Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 114 driver's side front door. It is just below. Image 62, a view straight on to the LUMP defect with my scale in the photo to show size and Lb shape. (By Ms. Alizadeh) Let's back up here for a second. I think you need a break, he's the one whose fingers are flying a million miles an hour. Let me just finish up talking about this and we can 9 take a little break for sure and everybody else can 10 get up and take a break. 11 So this defect that's on the outside 12 of the driver's door or Officer Darren Wilson's 13 vehicle. 14 A Yes, ma'am. 15 And so this door is metal, correct? 16 A Yes. 17 Can you describe what that defect appears 18 or looks like to you, not what you concluded it is, 19 but describe it? 20 A For lack of a better term, this is convex, 21 it is coming out of the vehicle. It is not a dent 22 in the vehicle. And it is also, it is hard to tell 23 again what you are seeing up there. 24 It is not a stain that's on the 25 vehicle, you can tell that paint has come off of the Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 115 i 1 vehicle. Something from the outside or from the i 2 inside coming out made that defect to the exterior. 3 And is there a hole, is there a hole in 4 what you are looking at there? 5 A From the outside of the vehicle? 6 From the outside of the car? 7 A No. 8 MS. ALIZADEH: Okay. Any questions about 9 this. Okay. 10 MS. WHIRLEY: Is there a hole from the 11 inside looking out? 12 A There is. 13 Why is it 14 not notated on herepiece of evidence. 16 It isn't. 17 A The vehicle was taken as a piece of 18 evidence and processed at the crime lab by another 19 detective, but at the scene that's just a visual 20 note that I was taking. It wasn't a piece of 21 evidence that I could collect. 22 Okay. It is notated in 23 your paperwork? 24 A Yes, ma'am. 25 Okay Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 116 i 1 MS. ALIZADEH: Okay. We'll take a break i 2 here. Let me check on the timing of your lunch. 3 (Recess) 4 MS. ALIZADEH: This is Kathy Alizadeh. It 5 is 11:30, we just took about a ten minute break. 6 Detective is still testifying. Sheila 7 Whirley, she's left the room but everyone else that 8 was present when we began is still present in the 9 room. 10 I want to tell you that your food is 11 scheduled to be here at noon. is just going 12 to knock on the door when the food is here. At that 13 point, I will try to kind of finish up, if he's not 14 done, we're going to get to a part where I can make 15 a logical pause and you will be given your lunch. 16 It might seem like oh, let's go ahead and 17 eat while we are hearing testimony. One, you need a 18 break, I think it is good that you take a little 19 time for lunch, whether it is 30 minutes or an hour, 20 that's up to you. 21 Also, some of these photographs are not 22 going to be things you want to see when you are 23 eating lunch, of course. Ready to get started? 24 Officer what is your next 25 photograph? Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 117 A Next photograph is Image Number 63. This is again, what I took an overall photo and what we LUMP are going to zoom in on is hand impression that is Lb on the rear of Darren Wilson's police car. This is from east looking west on Canfield. This is my crime scene van at the edge of the crime scene. (By Ms. Alizadeh) Okay. A Image 64, rear of the vehicle, the rear 9 glass of the vehicle. This would be kind of the 10 left side or driver's side of the vehicle on the 11 rear lift gate. 12 Again, it is hard to see from this, 13 not only this photograph but kind of this angle it 14 looks like a couple handprint impressions kind of on 15 the glass. 16 65. What I did in this image is 17 moved just to my left a little bit to combat the 18 reflection of the sunlight, daylight that was there 19 to get a better image of what I was seeing in person 20 to describe what this is. It is not a bloody 21 handprint, it is not a muddy handprint, it would be 22 if the window was clean and somebody slapped a wet 23 hand on there and went down a dusty roaddust impression of a hand. 25 After I photographed this, almost Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 118 immediately a Ferguson officer, I don't know who, came up to me because they noticed me photographing LUMP this and were trying to figure out does this apply Lb to the scene? Does it not apply to the scene? I had noticed it and considered I better document it. After I photographed it, somebody came up to me from the department and goes hey, just so you know, Darren was told during roll car to get his car 9 washed because the sergeant saw the handprints on 10 the back window. 11 It was obviously deemed at that point 12 not of evidentiary value to us, but I had already 13 photographed it, so the picture shows what I took. 14 So had you thought that might have some 15 relevance, you would have maybe tried to lift a 16 print off of there? 17 A I would have done a number of things. 18 I don't want you to belabor it, you didn't 19 act any further on this handprint because it was 20 told to you it was there earlier in the morning? 21 A Correct. We did nothing other than the 22 three photos that you just saw. 23 Okay. 24 A Image 66, this is just an overall view of 25 the vehicle itself. I think if I remember the time Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 119 3 limit correctly, we were told that the tow truck was a close trying to gets its way down Canfield so we can LUMP tow the vehicle away. Lb Image 67. Same thing. Just overall image of the vehicle before we were getting ready to tow it. Image 68. Right before this image was taken, my chain of events kind of got scattered. 9 I would have typically have continued photographing 10 the vehicle and then once it was towed I would have 11 taken a picture of where the vehicle was at right 12 after it had been removed. 13 Someone, I'm not sure who, be it 14 family member or someone in the crowd, had tore down 15 some crime scene tape and a few people ran into near 16 the crime scene. The decision was made then that we 17 needed to stop our order of events, how we typically 18 process a scene and we needed to get the body 19 photographed and get the body moved immediately. 20 Typically what you would see in the 21 beginning of the photographs were I had the overall, 22 the intermediate and close?up view of each 23 individual piece of evidence, that got thrown out 24 the window. 25 We not quickly ran down, but we had a Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 120 large crowd that had gathered now at the end of the crime scene near Michael Brown. The apartment LUMP buildings that you can see on either side, one in Ah the front, there is one obviously behind me where I'm taking this picture. Those were filled with residents on the three stories of the stairwells. There were people on roofs, people had started to line the crime scene from the side not being 9 blocked. 10 What we decided on doing is the ll medical examiner, I think the fire department that 12 was there had sheets and some tarps that we were 13 going to use because the crowd at this point were 14 starting to chant, kill the police, numerous other 15 derogatory things towards everything about us. And 16 we fully expected another, I don't want to use the 17 term riot, but an outburst once we did uncover the 18 body and begin to move it. 19 We made the decision to use the 20 sheets and tarps the best we could to block the view 21 of everybody that was trying their best to get in 22 the crime scene and see what was going on. 23 Several officers that were there, I 24 would say probably 10 to 15 officers grabbed the 25 body screens, sheets, and tarps, and not just held Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 121 1 them on the ground, but held them up above their 2 heads because the apartment buildings were very 3 close to where we were at. 4 It is hard to really get a 5 perspective from this view how close those buildings 6 were to the scene. We had people on the third floor 7 apartments that could see straight down, and people 8 on roofs that could see straight down. 9 So we had people in close proximity 10 of the perimeter of that body holding screens to try 11 to block us while we're working and still trying to 12 protect the crime scene as well. 13 So this blocking maneuver I'll call it 14 that you did, was this done so that you were hiding 15 some of the things that you were doing or was this 16 done so you could avoid inciting the crowd with what 17 they see when you remove the sheet? 18 A It was strictly done to avoid any type of 19 emotional response that we were expecting to happen 20 when the body was uncovered. 21 You also refer to the medical examiner 22 being there? 23 A It was medical examiner field 24 investigator, not one of the pathologists. 25 Do you know which one it was? Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 122 A 2 So after this photograph, and you said 3 that you, it disrupted your normal course of order? 4 A Yes, ma'am. 5 So you can go ahead and talk about the 6 next image. 7 A 69. The first, the previous photo would 8 be the overall view, this would be just the 9 intermediate view of me stepping closer to the body. 10 Again, just kind of drawing your attention to what ll we are getting ready to photograph. 12 Image 70. This image, obviously, 13 Michael Brown has been uncovered, the sheets have 14 been moved from here to this end of the body, you 15 can see now people's feet, which I would typically 16 just out of habit try to keep people out of my 17 photographs, but again, I'm standing in between 18 policemen now, kind of my back against, with the 19 scene secured and kind of collapsed down on top of 20 us to shield the public's eye. 2l Image 71. 22 Can you turn it? 23 A Yes, I'm sorry. Just like I would 24 normally do at the beginning of the scene taking 25 overall views from all the way around what I'm Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 123 1 trying to show you. I do the same thing with a 2 victim or Michael Brown. 3 So before I was standing over here on 4 the right side of the picture looking this way, now 5 I'm looking at his feet, I'm standing on the eastern 6 end looking to the west. 7 Image 72. Same thing, the previous 8 image I was standing probably on the double yellow 9 line, now I've moved to the south and again 10 you can see the feet of the policemen that are 11 standing around holding the screens. 12 Image 73. I'm on the south side of 13 the street looking north and again just kind of an 14 overall intermediate view. This picture in 15 particular you can see that I cut off part of his 16 foot in the photograph. 17 You mean out of the frame of the 18 photograph? 19 A Out of frame, I did not cut part of his 20 foot off. In the photograph his foot is out of the 21 frame. 22 You see the white sheet is still above his 23 head? 24 A Yes. Image 74. Corrected the previous 25 photo by including his entire foot in the frame. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 124 Image 75. An overall view, again, I put in the center of the overall view kind of where LUMP I'm going with the next information so this would be Lb in our processing of the scene. We do as many face shots and identification shots as the body is found. Now, when you are processing a death scene, is it common place when you first see the body and document it that there might be evidence of 9 medical intervention, people that might have been to 10 a scene and tried to provide medical aid to a 11 victim? 12 A Yes, ma'am, anything from people being 13 intubated with a breathing device, to clothes being 14 removed for CPR purposes, to just the simple EKG 15 type of devices attached to the feet to check to see 16 if there is a heartbeat. 17 In your experience in those circumstances 18 that when there is some type of medical 19 intervention, when the medical personnel are done, 20 they leave those devices at the scene? 21 A They do, yes. 22 Did you see any evidence of medical 23 intervention? 24 A No. 25 And his clothes didn't appear to have been Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 125 i 1 cut off or in any way moved or removed that you i 2 could see where there would be leads placed on his 3 body? 4 A No, ma'am. 5 Okay. 6 A Image 76. Intermediate view Michael 7 Brown's shoulders and face. 8 Image 77. This would be the close?up 9 view. 10 Image 78. Again, an overall view and 11 in the center of the screen I see his right hand and 12 injury defect to it. 13 Image 79, what I would determine an 14 intermediate view of his right hand and the defect. 15 Image 80. Moving farther up the 16 right arm, that would be a defect injury to his 17 right forearm. 18 Image 81. This would be kind of 19 moving back again, as far as my perspective because 20 I'm starting to show the tattoo and injury to the 21 inside part of his right arm. 22 Image 82, image of the defect to the 23 inside of his right arm, all of these series of 24 photos I'm showing you. It is the body as it is 25 uncovered to me. He has not been moved, manipulated Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 126 i with me or by any of the medical examiner i 2 investigators. 3 Image 83. Photo of right arm again 4 showing visible tattoos that we can use for a 5 positive identification. If we have family members 6 that are there that can say oh, yeah, he has a 7 tattoo of this on his arm or this on his leg, stuff 8 they told us to look for that we can use for 9 identification purposes. 10 Image Number 84. Overall view and ll what we're looking at here is tattoo on his left 12 arm. 13 Image Number 85. Tattoo on the 14 inside of his left arm. 15 Image Number 86. This would be a 16 view of Michael Brown's back. This is a standard 17 photograph that we take as part of every death 18 investigation, be it an overdose or child death or 19 anything else, we always show lack of injury as 20 well. So this is the medical examiner investigator 2l lifted up the back of his shirt just to show no 22 injuries were present there. 23 Image 87. This image is showing an 24 overall view specifically as to the location of 25 Michael Brown's left hand. These are again a set of Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 127 1 images that were requested by the detectives after 2 they had spoken with Darren Wilson and we kind of 3 had a brief, we had his first initial statement they 4 requested these photos as part of his statement. He 5 had said that Michael Brown had come back towards 6 his direction with a hand stuck into his waist band, 7 as if 8 Don't speculate about what as if, this was 9 information that you got, not directly, from an 10 officer? 11 A I did not speak to Officer Wilson, I still 12 have not to this day. 13 This was a third hand? 14 A A detective that had spoken with him that 15 was now back at the scene giving us things to look 16 for. 17 This is the reason for the photograph, you 18 are not drawing any conclusions or assumptions from 19 that information, correct? 20 A Yes. 21 Now, in this photograph you can see yellow 22 lines that are around his extremities? 23 A Yes. 24 What's that for? 25 A As part of any scene, we talked about the Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 128 diagram that you guys have the placards are always left in place even after we collect the evidence. LUMP The last thing we do is diagram the scene part of Ah the diagramming of any death scene is where the body position was. Everyone has seen the old fashion silhouette still laying on the ground, those are paper and they move, particularly outdoor scenes. 9 We take chalk and we outline the location of the 10 feet, hands and head where we have those permanent ll chalk marks, not permanent, but chalk marks on the 12 ground while we were there to measure his location 13 from after he is removed. 14 Those are marks that you make? 15 A Yes. 16 MS. WHIRLEY: And this is Sheila Whirley, 17 was Darren Wilson on the scene when you arrived? 18 A He was not. 19 MS. WHIRLEY: Okay, okay. You said you 20 investigated several police shootings? 21 A Yes, ma'am. 22 MS. WHIRLEY: Is that unusual for the 23 officer who is involved in the shooting to not be on 24 the scene? 25 A No, ma'am. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 129 i MS. WHIRLEY: That is pretty customaryprotocol from many 3 departments is the officer that is involved 4 typically leaves almost immediately once they are 5 able to. 6 MS. WHIRLEY: Okay. 7 A Image Number 88. Intermediate view of the 8 location of his left hand and arm, or the position. 9 (By Ms. Alizadeh) This yellow right here, 10 that's not your chalk mark, is it? ll A No, ma'am, that's the inside, that's the 12 yellow dividing line for the road. There should be 13 a chalk mark that we can kind of see here denoting 14 where his hand is. 15 Okay. 16 A Image 89. Outside of his shirt being 17 lifted up in the back by the medical examiner l8 investigator, this is the first time Michael Brown 19 had been moved. He was rolled onto his right 20 shoulder, again, showing the positioning of his left 21 arm. 22 And you were there when the medical 23 examiner rolled him onto his shoulder? 24 A Yes, ma'am. 25 Are you familiar with what rigor mortis Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 130 is? 2 A Correct. 3 Did you, do you believe that rigor mortis 4 had set in on the body of Michael Brown at this 5 point? 6 A Yes, ma'am. 7 And when the medical examiner 8 MS. WHIRLEY: Medical investigator. 9 (By Ms. Alizadeh) Medical examiner lO investigator turned him over, did his limbs stay in ll the positions that they were when he was on his 12 front? 13 A They did, and you can see that not only 14 from the position of his arm, his leg is still up 15 and his head is not moved down. 16 So this is hand? 17 A I believe, is the blue glove. 18 Okay. 19 A The white glove is an employee of the St. 20 Louis Delivery Service, which is the company the 2l medical examiner's office uses to transport Michael 22 Brown. 23 So is this officer trying to place his arm 24 in a particular position by, in this photograph or 25 is that the way his arm was when he was rolled over? Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 131 1 A His arm stayed in that position from the 2 time he was rolled over until the time we rolled him 3 over onto his back. 4 Okay. 5 A Image 90. Previous to overall, this would 6 be an intermediate, again, showing the position of 7 his left hand. 8 And you did not witness anyone manipulate 9 that in any way did you? 10 A No, ma'am, other than just rolling him 11 onto his right shoulder. 12 MS. WHIRLEY: His hand, it seems like it 13 is balled up, this is Sheila Whirley, there was 14 nothing in his hand though? 15 A Not that I saw at the scene, no. 16 MS. WHIRLEY: Okay. And you would have 17 noted if there was something in his hand? 18 A Typically, yes. The body itself belongs 19 to the medical examiner. What we investigate on the 20 body at the scene is very minimal compared to what 21 they do at autopsies. If there was a knife sticking 22 out of his hand, something that is protruding, I 23 would have been able to see that and document that 24 if there was something clenched inside of his hand, 25 that is not something that we would pry his hand Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 132 1 open to see at the scene, that would be something 2 that is done after the body arrives at the morgue. 3 MS. WHIRLEY: I understand if there was a 4 weapon in his hand, you would have seen it. 5 A Yes, ma'am. 6 MS. WHIRLEY: And there was not? 7 A No. 8 Image 91. Michael Brown is now 9 rolled completely over onto his back. Again, you'll 10 see the overall photos of me walking kind of a 360 11 degree area around the body. The sheet that he's 12 laying on is not one of the sheets he was covered up 13 with, this is a new sheet, and lack of a better 14 term, body bag brought in by the medical examiner. 15 (By Ms. Alizadeh) This thing right here, 16 this blue thing right here? 17 A You will see that in, a couple of the 18 images, that is a handle for the bag to pick him up, 19 it is to assist in carrying people. 20 Okay. 21 Would the 22 old sheet that we was on, would this have been 23 collected as evidence as well? 24 A I was asked that yesterday. I did not 25 collect it, I can't say with certainty, but I am Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 133 assuming those type of things typically go into the 2 body bag and go to the morgue. 3 Image 92. Overall view of the 4 previous one was from like his feet looking towards 5 his head, this side view. Again, better image of 6 that blue material you see was a handle for the body 7 bag. 8 Image 93. 9 (By Ms. Alizadeh) Can you turn it? 10 A I'm sorry. ll No, the other way, you're not on, turn it 12 around, there you go? 13 A Okay. Again 360 degree view from his head 14 looking towards his feet. Again, you can kind of 15 get perspective now the policemen that we had 16 blocking the scene. 17 You see those weighted sand bags along 18 here for the body screen? 19 A Yes, just like we saw in the previous 20 images at the beginning of my photos where that 21 weight was kind of left in the middle of the street. 22 Do you know what this is right here? 23 A I think that's another sheet that had been 24 used to cover him or part of it. There was more 25 than one sheet that had been used to cover him up. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 134 All right. 2 94. 3 Can you turn it, the other way, there we 4 go. 5 MS. ALIZADEH: That means your food is 6 here. So maybe we'll try to finish with the images 7 of the body at the scene, six? 8 A Five more. 9 MS. ALIZADEH: And break for lunch, is 10 that all right with everybody? ll A Again, just overall view of the body, kind 12 of the exact same position. This may be one of 13 those things where my camera clicked twice. I know 14 at this point there is some items sitting on his 15 stomach, this is where the investigator from the 16 medical examiner's office had removed some items 17 from his pocket to show what he had in his pockets 18 there. 19 (By Ms. Alizadeh) Now, is it typical at a 20 scene that do you ever go inside the pockets of the 2l deceased person? 22 A No, again, in the State of Missouri the 23 deceased body belongs to the medical examiner's 24 office in St. Louis County or to the coroner in 25 different counties, however they are titled. Body Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 135 i belongs to them, that includes stuff that's in their i 2 pockets, their clothing, everything. 3 We, myself personally, never touch a 4 body physically unless I'm at the autopsy and I'm 5 fingerprinting the deceased or anything like that. 6 But as far as searching of the body, that is 7 strictly done by the medical examiner investigator. 8 Were you present when the investigator 9 searched the body of Michael Brown? 10 A Yes. ll Did you see him remove items from his 12 pockets? 13 A I did. 14 Did you see him place the items on, I I5 guess, I would say the belly of Michael Brown? 16 A Yes. 17 Is that something that's typically done 18 that the items were placed on the deceased body? 19 A Given space and time, they are either 20 placed on the body or if it is a large amount of 21 things they would be placed directly next to him 22 where I would photograph him and those items are 23 just returned back into the pockets of the deceased. 24 Okay. 25 A Image 95. Again, identification purpose Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 136 i photos, he's now been rolled over the other side of a the face is what I photographed before because this LUMP was the size that was down against the pavement. So Lb now I'm taking my overall intermediate views of the side of the scene. Image 96. Intermediate view of Michael Brown's face. Image 97. Just like on his arms in 9 the previous photos where I did the overall 10 intermediate close?up views of any visible defects 11 or injuries. This is close?up view of a visible 12 defect and injury to his face. 13 Now, can you tell me what portion, I mean, 14 the bridge of his nose? 15 A The bridge of his nose, this would be his 16 left eye. 17 Okay. And you're standing above his head? 18 A Directly above him pointing my camera 19 straight down. 20 Image 98. Intermediate view of items 21 removed from his pocket by 22 And Image 99 would just be a close?up 23 view of those items. 24 Now, did you seize those items? 25 A No, ma'am, I did not. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 137 1 And that's because you said these items 2 belong to the medical examiner's office because they 3 were on the body? 4 A Correct. 5 Did you handle them in any way? 6 A No, ma'am. Image one 7 Let me stop here. The items that were 8 photographed on Michael Brown, did you observe 9 put those items back in the pockets? 10 A Correct, yes. 11 Where he got them out? 12 A I did. 13 I think we are done. 14 A He's been moved now. 15 MS. ALIZADEH: So we'll stop right now for 16 you guys to have lunch, okay. I would just, I'm 17 going to take the photographs that we haven't 18 discussed with me, these I'm going to leave here. 19 Do what you will, but these have already been, you 20 know, looked at by you. I would suggest that you 21 just have a lunch and not go over any of this stuff, 22 but if you desire to do so, they are here, okay? 23 And let you take that. 24 And it is 12:33 approximately, and we will 25 break for lunch. Why don't you guys let Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 138 1 know. 2 MS. WHIRLEY: It is 12:05 p.m. 3 MS. ALIZADEH: Okay, sorry about that. 4 (Recess) 5 (By Ms. Alizadeh) So Officer or 6 Detective this is a continuation of your 7 testimony from this morning. 8 A Yes, ma'am. 9 So you are still under oath, you 10 understand? 11 A Yes, ma'am. 12 And so we're going to resume again with 13 the remainder of the photographs that you took 14 during your investigation of the crime scene. 15 So you can resume with the next 16 photograph? 17 A Image Number 100. This is a standard 18 photo that we take during any death investigation 19 photograph of where the body was after it had been 20 removed by medical examiner personnel. 21 What you can start to see in this 22 photograph are again the chalk markings we put in 23 place while the body was still there for our 24 measurement points. Also you can see an evidence 25 placard here again, once we collect evidence, the Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 139 i placard is left in place for us to measure and a diagram from later. LUMP Now at this point, have you collected all Lb of the evidence? A At that point we had collected everything that we had found. I had mentioned before in an ideal world you see the overall, intermediate and close?up view of each individual piece of evidence. 9 The shell casings, projectiles and some other items 10 of evidence that were around the body in the chaos ll of the gunshots being fired near us, people tearing 12 down our crime scene tape and coming in, those shots 13 were missed, the photographs, the images, I'm sorry, 14 were not taken prior to us picking up those items of 15 evidence. We got them out of there to protect those 16 pieces of evidence and just didn't get photographs 17 of them. 18 But you did document them in your diagram, 19 correct? 20 A Yes. The last photo, the previous one 21 that was up there you can see the evidence placard 22 is still there. You will see it in some of the 23 following photos too, you will see the yellow 24 evidence placard still in place. 25 Item of evidence won't be sitting in Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 140 front of it, but the placard is still where the item was located for measurement purposes. LUMP Now, something that we talked about this Lb morningbrief conversation out there about something that you recalled, I asked you earlier when you were photographing the body of Michael Brown up close and going to start moving the body, uncovering it and moving it, you had officers 9 that were shielding you with sheets and tarps? 10 A Yes, ma'am. ll And the body screens that you call them? 12 A Yes. 13 I had asked you if that was done to 14 conceal what you were doing from public view and so 15 that people wouldn't see what you were doing? 16 A Right. 17 And you had described that's not the 18 purpose for why you were being shielded, was there 19 any civilians who were allowed inside that shielded 20 area once you uncovered the body of Michael Brown? 21 A Yes, after we had put the shields up, the 22 tarps and the sheets to block the outside people 23 looking in from above our vantage point, Michael 24 Brown's father, Michael Brown, Senior was allowed 25 inside the crime scene and actually inside the group Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 141 of tarps to witness and observe what we were doing. That served multiple purposes, LUMP primarily to provide positive identification. Would Lb be no different from any other homicide scene where we would have a family member provide us with identification once we do go in and uncover the body and everything else, just like the photographs that I showed you of the tattoos on his arms, those were 9 things that the family told us to look for when 10 identifying him, but it served no other purpose than 11 letting him observe what we were doing and give us 12 positive identification of his son. 13 He wasn't allowed to touch anything in 14 that inner circle as you called it? 15 A No, ma'am, he stayed basically on the 16 inner perimeter that we had created. 17 Did he positively identify the body in the 18 street as his son? 19 A Not to me personally, but to the detective 20 he was with, yes. 21 Did he remain in that perimeter for the 22 duration of the time that Michael Brown's body was 23 on the street? 24 A Yes. 25 And after he was removed by the delivery Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 142 personnel, did he then leave the scene? A He did, left the inner perimeter. LUMP Right, okay, you can continue with the Ab next photograph. A Image Number 101. Same thing as before showing the 360 degree views of what we're looking at. Again, chalk marks on the ground that are labeled right foot, left foot, see the chalk marking 9 there for the right hand and here for the left hand. 10 Image 102. Same thing as before, 11 north side of the street looking south again, feet 12 and hand chalk markings. A couple things you can 13 see in this photograph are number one, a pile of 14 blue tarps on this side. Those are some of the 15 tarps that we used to shield the view of the public 16 that was around us. Wrapped up in there are some 17 white sheets that were used as well to shield the 18 views, not the ones that I know of that were used to 19 cover the body. 20 Also things that you see in this 21 video here are, image right here is a box that we 22 use to hold our placards and a large 250 foot yellow 23 measuring tape. Just things we were getting ready 24 to do the diagram of the scene. 25 Also you can see in this photo these Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 143 placards over here next to the different cones, 2 those are placards that again don't have any 3 intermediate or close?up views of the evidence item 4 that they were marking the other side, the placards 5 were left in place for diagram purposes. 6 Image 103. Same angle as before, 7 just an intermediate view of the chalk marks and 8 where Michael Brown's body and everything. It is 9 hard to tell, that is an initial for RH, the right 10 hand. 11 . Officer 12 all of the casings were retrieved? 13 A Yes, I'll show you the rest of them when 14 we get towards the end. 15 Number 104. Close?up view. Again, 16 in the actual photograph it shows that is an and 17 that is an H, just denoting our chalk mark of which 18 body part is shown. 19 Image 105. Again, chalk marks for 20 the bottom and the feet, LF left foot, RF for right 21 foot. 22 Image 106. Closer image of the same 23 left foot and right foot chalk marks. 24 (By Ms. Alizadeh) Let me ask you because 25 and again, it is not as clear up on the screen, but Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 144 we talked about yesterday that, for example, what is 2 that thing right there? 3 A Oh, you will see this in a couple other 4 ones, that is a cigarette butt. On the street in a 5 couple images that you will see and a couple more 6 slides, you will see other cigarette butts within 7 the scene. Those were deemed as not evidentiary, 8 they were cigarette butts and trash that litter this 9 entire street. 10 Some scenes, obviously, those are ll important DNA evidence, this scene there is no part 12 of the case up and even to this point where at the 13 scene we knew or thought that a cigarette butt had 14 anything to do with the incident. 15 So you didn't collect any cigarette butts? 16 A No, ma'am. 17 They were just there? 18 A They were left at the scene. 19 . Were 20 there any droppings between the officer's car and 21 the body? 22 A What type of dropping? 23 Blood droppings? 24 A No. 25 (By Ms. Alizadeh) There wasn't? Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 145 i A No. I walked from my crime scene van to i 2 where the body was that day no less than 50 times. 3 Along with the other three detectives, my detective 4 sergeant and countless other crimes against person 5 homicide detectives, and no one saw any, no one 6 noticed any, we looked, nothing was ever found 7 between the officer's car and where Michael Brown 8 was. 9 . What's 10 the distance between the police car, the officer's 11 car and the body, do you know? 12 A 153 feet 9 inches. It is noted on your 13 diagram. If you look on your diagram. 14 MS. ALIZADEH: Page two of your diagram. 15 A Page one. 16 MS. ALIZADEH: All right. 17 A It is noted in the drawing you will see 18 the bottom line on Canfield and you will see the 19 number 152 feet 9 inches noted in there, that is the 20 distance between the driver's front wheel of Darren 21 Wilson's police car and Michael Brown's head 22 location. That's the distance between the two. And 23 that measurement was taken specifically from a 24 baseline measurement of where Michael Brown's head 25 was located when we marked it and where we marked, Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 146 i 1 chalk marked the officer's tire of his car, that's i 2 how we came up with that. 3 The position that you 4 find Mr. Brown face down? 5 A Yes. 6 Was looking to the police 7 car? 8 A Correct. 9 Thank you. 10 A Sure. Image 107. 107, again another 11 overall view. Overall picture of the chalk mark 12 where the left hand was at. Again, another evidence 13 placard here with no evidence next to it, just 14 marking the location of where it was collected. 15 Image Number 108. Close?up view that 16 is an L, that is an with an indicator line and 17 this is the position of his left hand again, 18 cigarette butt that was left at the scene, just 19 happen to be in this image. 20 Image 109. Just so I can figure out 21 where I'm at. At this point in the investigation 22 another crime scene detective had seized Darren 23 Wilson's firearm. Up to this point we had no idea 24 of knowing how many rounds he had fired. We were 25 given the number and the number we had recovered at Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 147 the scene did not match the number that were missing 2 from his gun. 3 (By Ms. Alizadeh) So let me stop you 4 there. 5 A Yes. 6 His weapon was seized and we will hear 7 testimony by other officers, you were told that his 8 weapon was seized and that it was checked to see how 9 many, you're familiar with his weapon? 10 A Yes, ma'amSig Sauer. 13 It is a semiautomatic? 14 A Yes. 15 It is the type of weapons that ejects l6 casings when fired? 17 A Correct. 18 It is the type of weapon that has a 19 magazine that holds ammunition that goes into the 20 handle of the gun? 2l A Yes, ma'am. 22 And were you told how many, do you know 23 how many rounds that gun will carry? 24 A They vary by model. I was told that their 25 duty weapons that he used in this incident carries Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 148 13 rounds total. 2 And that would be how many in a magazine? 3 A Twelve in a magazine and one in the 4 chamber. 5 In order to have a bullet in the chamber, 6 an officer has to have loaded the magazine, rack the 7 bullet into the chamber, remove the magazine and put 8 in one more bullet in his gun? 9 A Yes, ma'am, that's correct. 10 That's fully loaded and one is ready in ll the chamber? 12 A That is it. 13 Is that how you instructed your charges 14 when you are doing instructions at the range? 15 A Yes, exactly. 16 So that doesn't mean that somebody is out 17 to shoot somebody, that is just how you were to have 18 your gun fully loaded and ready to go? 19 A Yes, ma'am, that's how you go to work. 20 And so you were told how many live rounds 2l were left in officer, in his gun? 22 A One live round. 23 And so that would leave 12 rounds possibly Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 149 i 1 And were you told that Officer Wilson had i 2 indicated that before this incident occurred, he had 3 loaded his weapon and it was fully loaded? 4 A Yes. 5 At this point in the investigation, how 6 many shell casings had you recovered? 7 A At this point we recovered ten shell 8 casings. 9 Okay. 10 A We were looking for two. 11 And had you also been told now, initially 12 would you have planned to process the inside of that 13 car while you were at the scene? 14 A No. 15 Your intention was to have the car towed? 16 A Yes. 17 And it would be in a garage? 18 A Yes. 19 Away from the elements? 20 A And our crime lab in a secure facility to 21 process the inside. 22 Were you told at some point that possibly 23 his gun was fired while he was inside the vehicle? 24 A Yes, ma'am. 25 And so now getting back to where you said Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 150 you were interrupted what you had been doing, what event had transpired? LUMP A At this point after the body had moved, we Lb had learned the information of how many rounds he had fired, which were 12. We had found ten shell casings and we were continuing to look at the eastern end of the crime scene where the body was at. We were looking around the western end where 9 the vehicle was at, unknown how many shots were 10 fired at which location. ll The vehicle was getting ready to be 12 towed and to save us time spent here closing down 13 this entire apartment complex, we were trying to 14 determine if possibly the shell casings were inside 15 of his police car because we hadn't been in to 16 search it yet because we had made the determination 17 to tow it and process it at our lab, but that could 18 take a couple of hours from start to finish. In the 19 meantime we could be searching for two casings that 20 just left our crime scene. 21 So I talked with the detective that 22 was going to process his car and we, not quickly, 23 but we briefly opened the door where I photographed 24 the hole that corresponds with the dent on the 25 outside of the door and then we went through just Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 151 1 looking under chairs, looking in the cracks of 2 seats, Darren Wilson's duty bag was in his passenger 3 seat, we looked through it and I have photographs of 4 all of that just showing what we took out of that 5 car. 6 And not processing it for DNA, 7 fingerprints and stuff like that. We were just 8 simply searching for potentially two spent shell 9 casings that we can't account for anywhere else at 10 the scene. 11 So the next series of photographs show 12 that part of your investigation? 13 A Yes, ma'am. 14 Okay. You can go ahead and continue. 15 A Photo 110. Overall view of the driver's 16 side of the vehicle. 17 Number 111. Intermediate view 18 driver's side front door. 19 From your earlier testimony we know that 20 the window is not up on the driver's side door? 21 A At this point, we can obviously look into 22 the vehicle. 23 Sure. 24 A But the window was not there, it wasn't 25 halfway up or it wasn't up at all, it just was not Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 152 1 there. 2 Okay. 3 A Number 112. Video of the driver's side 4 door open. This is just kind of showing our 5 process, the outside door closed, now it is open. 6 Image 113. Same angle, just a 7 different orientation of the camera. 8 Interior door panel. 9 What number is this? 10 A I'm sorry. Image 114, interior door 11 panel. Overall view and again, you can see the 12 placard is still on the ground there where evidence 13 item two was at. 14 What we're looking on this overall 15 view of the interior of the driver's door. 16 Image 115. Close?up intermediate 17 view of circular defect to the inside panel of the 18 driver door. 19 So this portion right here is like the arm 20 rest? 21 A Yes. 22 And then this is the actual side of the 23 interior of the car? 24 A Yes, ma'am. 25 Is that a hole? Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 153 1 A Yes. 2 Okay. It wasn't your job to process this 3 interior of the car? 4 A was simply documenting what we found on 5 the inside. 6 Image 116. Just overall interior 7 view again, now you can start to see this is pieces 8 of broken glass, it is safety glass, most cars you 9 see when it breaks, it doesn't break in big shards, 10 small pieces of glass. 11 Image 117. A View of the upper part 12 of the driver's seat. You can tell in this scene or 13 in this picture that this is what is referred to as 14 a cage car, metal cage is in the back seat where it 15 prohibits these seats from being laid back basically 16 or scooted back farther than this. 17 Is this barrier a cage or plexiglass? 18 A Plexiglass, the top half is glass, you can 19 see here it is metal from here down to the floor. 20 So when you enter the vehicle, is this a 21 sliding little window? 22 A I don't know. 23 Okay. Was it closed? 24 A It looks to be closed. 25 You don't recall if it was open or closed Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 154 and you didn't process it for that reason? 2 A No. 3 Did you look in the back seat? 4 A I did not. 5 For shell casings? 6 A We did open the doors and look, we didn't 7 see anything. 8 Okay. For the purposes of speeding this 9 through, did you find any shell casings inside the 10 car? 11 A No, ma'am. 12 So these next series of photos, we will 13 have somebody who processed the inside of the car 14 who is going to talk about what he found inside the 15 car, but this is just you documenting what you saw 16 in the car? 17 A Yes, ma'am. 18 You didn't seize anything else from this 19 car? 20 A No, ma'am. 21 So we can do these a little quicker. 22 A 118. Again, overall view from the 23 driver's side. 24 Image 119 is an overall view from the 25 passenger side of the vehicle. Again, evidence Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 155 i 1 marker where the bracelet was at is still in place i 2 and this is showing Darren Wilson's duty bag or gear 3 bag and his rain coat. 4 Image 120. Darren Wilson's gear bag 5 in the passenger seat. We are showing it because 6 the rain coat and the gear bag were removed prior to 7 the towing of the vehicle and given back to Ferguson 8 Police Department. 9 MS. WHIRLEY: Sheila Whirley speaking, you 10 mention duty bag and gear bag, are these the same 11 thing? 12 A Synonymous terms, it is a bag that every 13 policeman carries with him that has paperwork, 14 forms, your lunch, your rain coat. 15 MS. WHIRLEY: Is this something that you 16 looked inside? 17 A We expanded it just, and looked to the 18 bottom shell casing had 19 fallen inside. 20 MS. WHIRLEY: You didn't do a thorough 21 search of it or anything? 22 A No. 23 MS. WHIRLEY: Okay. 24 A Number 121. Photo looking down into his Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 156 i 1 (By Ms. Alizadeh) Now, can you describe i 2 what this thing is here? 3 A It appears to me to be a wood baton. 4 That's something that some police officers 5 carry? 6 A Yes. Image 122. The gear bag has been 7 taken out of the seat and when it focuses in now, 8 I'm just showing the rain coat or traffic coat lying 9 in the floorboard. Most of these coats are 10 reversible. 11 Image 123. The inside would be the 12 bright yellow or traffic yellow color, you can turn 13 that outside when you are directing traffic in the 14 rain and inside, obviously, the exterior and that 15 was removed, that was the last photo of his car. 16 Now, we're moving back to the eastern 17 part of the crime scene. Image 124. Okay. I'll 18 ask you to look at the diagram on page one so you 19 can get a reference to where this is. On the far 20 right?hand side you see two evidence bubbles labeled 21 19 and 20. If you look at the top part of this 22 photo, I don't know if it is blocked by the camera, 23 you can see a large red stain here in the middle of 24 the road, that was the location of Michael Brown's 25 head. Farther up the road here would be Darren Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 157 1 Wilson's car. So we are standing at the eastern end 2 looking west. What these other items are, are two 3 blood spatter patterns that are located farther east 4 of Michael Brown's body on the ground. 5 Image 125. 6 Now, let me not correct you, but clarify, 7 you said blood? 8 A I did. 9 You didn't test it? 10 A I did not test it. 11 So it is called red stains? 12 A Yes. 13 Somebody else will testify about what it 14 was? 15 A It is a red stain similar to a spatter 16 pattern that I would recognize as needing to be 17 documented and possibly important to the case. 18 You've seen crime scenes before where 19 there are blood trails or blood spatter, and you 20 know that sometimes those spatters can give you some 21 information about what was going on when that blood 22 was dropped onto that surface? 23 A Yes, ma'am, I've seen it in several crime 24 scenes. I've taken several classes on recognizing, 25 interpreting and the correct way to document these Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 158 1 things. I am not a certified expert and I would 2 never claim to be in pattern analyst. 3 So you recognize that these actual, what 4 you call blood spatters, we think they are blood 5 spatters at this point? 6 A Right. 7 That they needed to be documented? 8 A Yes, ma'am. 9 Okay. 10 A So this would be an intermediate view of ll 19. I know the other picture isn't readily 12 available to give you an orientation, the point of 13 this placard is pointed west down Canfield, if that 14 makes sense. 15 So the stain was nearer 16 his head? 17 A No. 18 So just the opposite? 19 A Just the opposite. 20 Can I ask one question. 21 You talked earlier about a break in the 22 investigation due to additional gun fire; is that 23 right? 24 A Yes, ma'am. 25 Is that by citizens or Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 159 i 1 policethe police. 3 Not by the police. 4 A We don't know who it was. 5 That wasn't in the crime 6 scene at all? 7 A No, it was from where I was standing, 8 which in your diagram would be the building, the 9 building on the south side of the road of it 10 sounded like it came from directly behind that 11 building. 12 So there is no way that 13 this could have been part of this? 14 A No. 15 Okay. 16 A We had already identified, located this 17 spatter prior to the second round of gunshots. 18 Image 126. Intermediate View of the 19 spatter pattern and clarifying this end of this 20 pattern would be closest to Michael Brown, this 21 would be the farthest part. 22 (By Ms. Alizadeh) But Michael Brown's body 23 is in between the blood spatter and Darren Wilson's 24 vehicle? 25 A Yes, ma'am. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 160 So blood spatter is farther east from the 2 body? 3 A Yes. These two spatter patterns are the 4 farthest east evidence that we located. 5 All right. 6 A Image 127. Same thing, directly overhead 7 view with additional scale laid in for analysis 8 purposes. 9 Image 128. At this point I think 10 this would be an intermediate view of the same ll spatter pattern. Again, with more than one scale to 12 assist experts in size and shape. 13 Image 129. Similar photos before, 14 different orientation of the camera. 15 And so the placard and that scale? 16 A Has not moved since the previous photo. 17 Basically the photo before, if you can picture I'm 18 standing facing directly west, now I've oriented l9 myself where I'm facing south and the placards are 20 still in the same direction. 21 Image Number 130. At this point I 22 have switched camera lenses to what we will refer to 23 as a prime lens. The lens I typically use for 24 overall photos is 18 to 35, kind of a wide angle 25 lens. I switched to a 60 millimeter lens, which is Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 161 1 a fixed focal. It is something where you can get 2 close?up images of something with great detail. It 3 doesn't zoom in or zoom out, it only focuses at 4 fixed length. It can focus in really close to small 5 objects to find greater detail. 6 And although you can't see the placard 7 clearly, that's number 19? 8 A Yes, ma'am, still number 19. 9 All right. 10 A Image 131. Again, the overhead projector 11 isn't showing a lot of detail, but this is just a 12 close?up image of number 19 still, and I'm focusing 13 on the scale to show, an analyst would describe as a 14 tail of the red spatter pattern. 15 And that's also 19? 16 A Still 19, yes, ma'am. 17 Image Number 132. Now we've moved 18 back to image, I would have to go back to the 19 overall one first, number 20 is an overall position. 20 You want to look at your diagram? 21 A I need to see the overall of the two 22 placards together. Number 20, in the overall. Can 23 I put this back up? 24 Sure, but say the photo number. 25 A I'm going to put Image Number 124 back up Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 162 1 just to show you the orientation of the placard. 2 Again, the corner arm of the placard is facing back 3 towards Michael Brown's body and Darren Wilson's 4 police car. 5 Now, going to Image 132, so this 6 pointer arm of the placard is facing west. I'm 7 standing on the north side of the road looking south 8 to take this photograph. 9 Image 133. Intermediate view again. 10 The placard is facing west again looking at this red 11 stain pattern. 12 Image 134. Again, evidence item 13 number 20, red stain pattern still standing on the 14 north side of it looking south. 15 Image 135. Same perspective, I've 16 now added a second scale to reference size and 17 shape. 18 Image 136. Again, here I switched 19 back again to my macro lens or my prime lens to show 20 up close and with greater detail the tailing pattern 21 of the spatter. 22 And that's item number 20? 23 A Still item number 20, yes. Image 137. 24 Still on evidence item number 20. Again, another 25 photo, same reference as before. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 163 Image 138. Still evidence item 20, yet closer view of a tail. LUMP Image 139. Scale in the previous Lb photo, this scale was referenced this direction. I moved the placard out of the way and referenced this scale to the bottom of it to give you a reference point. This is on the, this is the eastern end, this up would be the north, I'm sorry, to the west 9 back towards Michael Brown's body. 10 Okay. Now, regarding these two red 11 stains, 19 and 20, did you seize them and package 12 them? 13 A Yes, I seized a sample of them. 14 Was it in a similar, same method that you 15 described seizing the red stain on the side of the 16 vehicle? 17 A Yes, ma'am. Sterile Q?Tip with sterile 18 water and then put into its own individual packaging 19 box. 20 And those are still labeled items number 21 19 and 20? 22 A Yes, ma'am, sample of item 19 and 20. 23 So in this case, you didn't consume the 24 whole stain? Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 164 Q?Tip. And you know you don't need more than a LUMP small amount for testing purposes? Lb A Yes, ma'am. Image Number 140. Basically this is a photograph showing how I have reorientated the scale that you saw in the previous picture. This way, I'm sorry, again you can see the placard for 9 19, which is this other splatter pattern, and 18 is 10 a placard for a piece of evidence that had already 11 been collected, but the placard is still in place. 12 Item Number 18 would have been listed on 13 your diagram as to what that was? 14 A Yes, ma'am, I believe item 18 was another 15 spent Federal shell casing. 16 Image 141. Same thing as before, it 17 is another image showing how I moved the orientation 18 of that scale reference item 20. 19 Image 142. Just like with the 20 previous scale of photos, I go from my intermediate, 21 my overall, to my intermediate, again, this would be 22 the intermediate showing the new reference point or 23 orientation of the scale. 24 Item 143. This is a photograph, 25 again, I had switched to my macro lens and took the Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 165 i 1 photograph with the scale below, the photograph i 2 here. It did not show up in the frame. 3 And this is item 20 still? 4 A Yes, still item number 20. 5 Image 144. The same shot as before 6 with the scale in the frame. 7 Image 145. This image shows several 8 things. This is the overall image of evidence items 9 21 and 22, which we found and you will see in the 10 next few photographs, the final two shell casings to 11 get to 12 shell casings. The first thing you will 12 see in this image number one is the Ferguson car is 13 still here, we have pushed the crime scene back at 14 this point in time. Here again is the pile of tarps 15 and sheets that we used to shield the view of the 16 public. You can also see these are evidence 17 placards for 11 and 12. Those are other shell 18 casings that we found previously and had already 19 collected. 20 This is the end of our, towards the 21 end of my investigation here for physical evidence 22 and it shows that we never stop in the order that we 23 find them. Obviously, 11 and 12 wouldn't 24 necessarily be next to 21 and 22, with 15 being over 25 here. It is just the order we found it at. The Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 166 i 1 very end of the crime scene we finally focused the i 2 time finding those last two shell casings we found 3 them over here in the grass. 4 So just because it is not clear on the 5 overhead, what is that one? 6 A That is the placard for evidence item 11. 7 And that is? 8 A Twelve. 9 Is this a placard? 10 A Yes. 11 What is it? 12 A That is 22. 13 What's this one? 14 A That's 21 is the farther one away. We 15 found 21 first and then continued looking and we 16 found 22 closer this way. 17 Okay. 18 A Or closer to the west. 19 Image 146. Almost identical to the 20 previous photo, just kind of an intermediate view. 21 147. Intermediate view of the 22 placard for 22. 23 148. Same thing, intermediate view 24 of the placard. 25 Image 149. You can see this is a Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 167 1 close?up view still of the placard number 22 and if 2 you can see, which is hard to do, this round object 3 here, that is the very opening of the spent shell 4 casing. 5 It is easier to see on the photo? 6 A It is a lot easier to see in the 7 photograph, and it can also show when they are 8 sitting straight up like that, impossible to see 9 with the naked eye. 10 How is it that they found this? 11 A Three of us were on our hands and knees 12 with gloves on just patting our way through the 13 grassy area to feel a rock or a hard object, you dig 14 down and we were able to locate the shell casing. 15 Image 150. Overall view again. The 16 placard for evidence item 21, there is the pile of 17 blue tarps, we are moving farther to the east on 18 Canfield here. The Ferguson vehicle still on the 19 scene. 20 Image 151. Intermediate view of the 21 placard. 22 Can you see the casing in that image? 23 A Not yet. 24 Image 152. Closer up. You can start 25 to see silver edge here buried in the grass. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 168 1 Image Number 153. There's our 2 close?up View and there you can still kind of make 3 out the edge of a spent shell casing. 4 And that's item 21? 5 A Yes, ma'am. 6 Now, so the total things, you seized all 7 12 shell casings, correct? 8 A Correct. 9 Now, what is a projectile? 10 A Projectile would be the term of the bullet 11 that is fired from a shell casing, the piece of a 12 cartridge that comes out of the firearm that would 13 be the projectile. 14 Did you seize any projectiles or partial l5 projectiles? 16 A Something I would refer to as a parent l7 projectile. 18 Was that one of the items that you had to 19 collect primarily, you had a chance to do a close?up 20 and intermediate photograph? 21 A Yes. 22 What number was that on your diagram? 23 A It is item number 17, and in your diagram 24 it is the north side of Michael Brown's right foot 25 on the ground next to him where you see the number Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 169 i seven, the small bubble that says 17, what I i 2 collected as an apparent projectile. 3 Someone you also conveyed that as well as 4 the samples of the stains, l9 and 20 and number 5 eight and number nine, those all went to a lab for 6 somebody else to analyze, correct? 7 A Yes. 8 Any other projectiles recovered at the 9 scene? 10 A No. ll And again, other than crawling on your 12 hands and knees, you ever like get metal detectors 13 out there and try to recover projectiles? 14 A Every crime scene van is equipped with a 15 metal detector. They're primarily used for finding 16 shell casings and heavily grass areas or other 17 pieces of metal evidence. We have used them before 18 to look for projectiles, we understand that when a 19 bullet is fired, a projectile doesn't stop 20 necessarily for a lot of things, including the 21 earth. 22 Where we would see what looks like a 23 bullet may have skipped into grass and you would 24 swear it has to be there. It could have skipped and 25 gone up and farther away, or if it is fired into the Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 170 ground, it is going to be so deep, it would take a 2 lot of manpower and/or just work to get it out and 3 not guarantee that you will actually be able to 4 recover it. 5 I guess for the sake of understanding 6 this, when shell casings are ejected, you know they 7 travel in a predictable direction and somewhat in a 8 perimeter that doesn't go beyond a certain area, 9 like you are not going to look in the next block for 10 a shell casingshell casing. 12 Right. They tend to be somewhere closer 13 to the crime scene or to the point where they were 14 ejected from the gun, correct? 15 A Yes. 16 But projectiles, would it be safe to say, 17 that could be two blocks away? 18 A And then some, yes. 19 Okay. You may continue. In this regard, 20 did you search the rest of the area, including 21 buildings and trees and objects to determine if you 22 could find a projectile that might have become 23 embedded in something? 24 A This next set of photos, yes, we searched Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 171 All right. A Image 154. This is the front building of LUMP Canfield, which if you want to look at your Lb diagram, it would be the building on the southeast part of the crime scene. I would be close to where the orientation of this, if you look at this window here, this window right here is where we were 9 eventually heading to in this photo sequence. To 10 reference where we're at, straight out here into the 11 middle of the street is where Michael Brown's body 12 had been to orient you where this photo was taken. 13 Photos 155. Close?up view of the 14 address plate. 15 156. Is a closer up View. 16 Image 157. Again, this part of the 17 building right here is where I just took the image 18 of the plate and now we are looking down here at 19 this window in particular. 20 Did you say that 21 apartment is due north of where Michael Brown's body 22 was found? 23 A South side of the street. 24 South side. 25 A The building that is on your diagram. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 172 1 MS . ALIZADEH: 2 A but it is the southeast corner. 3 That is not to scalescale. 5 Okay. 6 A We put that in two spots. That's what 7 accident reconstructionists do when we draw these, 8 we are not accident reconstructionists. 9 Okay. 10 A Image 158. Intermediate view of that 11 apartment window, and what we are looking at here is 12 a defect into the siding. 13 Image 159. Same window, same defect. 14 Image 160. Just a close?up view of 15 this defect. At this point in the investigation, we 16 recovered all the shell casings, the spent shell 17 casings and the number, the 12 that we needed to 18 account for. 19 This was a defect that was brought to 20 our attention by a witness that from what I can 21 testify to wasn't there when the shooting occurred, 22 but lived in this building and brought this to our 23 attention. I think there is a bullet hole in our 24 sidinglook at it after this Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 173 photo was taken. I took out about a 6 foot section of her siding and the insulation that's on it. LUMP Behind it is three quarter inch of plywood and then Lb in between the plywood there's about a 4 inch gap and goes into solid concrete cinder block wall. I could see inside of it that whatever that was that caused that hole was not sitting behind there and this was above the window 9 and it was open behind there. 10 To continue to look for apparent ll projectile that might be in there I would have to 12 remove that siding all the way around to that 13 window, the plywood all the way around and cause 14 significant damage to that apartment building. 15 Again, without guaranteeing any hope 16 of actually finding something because I've done this 17 more than once into just a drywall piece where you 18 see this and you take it all out and realize that it 19 just caused that hole and skipped off somewhere. 20 I've also seen where things have gone through 21 something like that three or four layers of wood, 22 hit something concrete, you get it, it just looks 23 like a penny and it just smashed. 24 And the firearms ballistic expert 25 will testify that sometimes bullets get mangled to Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 174 the point you can't confer anything from this then. 2 So we made the decision at that point, after I had 3 removed the siding to not do any more damage to this 4 lady's outside of her apartment. 5 (By Ms. Alizadeh) And, in fact, you don't 6 know that that was even made by a bullet? 7 A No, no. 8 Could be a woodpecker? 9 A Anything. You can tell it is not exactly 10 a round defect, which is something you typical see ll with a firearm. Not to say that a firearm couldn't 12 do that, but it could have been anything. There was 13 no guarantee or witness that said I was standing 14 here when this happened and this is brand new 15 damage. 16 This, in fact, we walked around that 17 immediate apartment complex and found a few other 18 damages and defects to siding that had cobwebs on 19 this and could tell they had been weathered or old 20 from the time we were there. 21 You did search the surrounding areas and 22 you were not able to find any other apparent bullet 23 holes and no other projectiles? 24 A No, ma'am. 25 And then your last? Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 175 A Final photos is Image 161. I explained at a the beginning this would be the first and last LUMP photos that we take in our memory cards for our Lb photo technicians when they look at our files to know what the beginning and ending of the scene is. All right. I have two other areas to cover very quickly. Going back to Grand Jury Exhibit 2, this is your diagram. So you've already 9 testified that one of the last things, let me ask 10 you this, after you've done the photographs and 11 seized all the evidence that you described, what's 12 the next thing you do? 13 A Now we start diagramming. 14 Okay. 15 A Photograph our evidence, selected our 16 evidence, accounted for every piece of evidence that 17 we know of at the time. The body has been moved, 18 cars have been towed, we go back now to diagram the 19 scene. 20 All right. Now, on Grand Jury Exhibit 21 Number 2, is this the diagram you made of this 22 scene? 23 A Yes, ma'am. 24 And so we referenced this before, you have 25 here not to scale? Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 176 i 1 A Correct. i 2 What does that mean, not to scale? 3 A The items in this photo that are not to 4 scale would be obviously number one, the size and 5 shape of these apartment buildings, we have them 6 just as plain rectangles. The size and shape of the 7 width of the road as compared to the size of the 8 vehicle. 9 If you look as far as scale drawings 10 go, this vehicle is the same size as Michael Brown 11 here. Those things are hard to do with the software 12 we're given and the tools that we use as crime scene 13 detectives to draw into scale on a CAD type drawing. 14 Also the size of this entry point on 15 Caddiefield, the driveway is not the same size as 16 this one. They may be in real life, but whether we 17 measure to scale or measure for our plotting 18 purposes of evidence, we don't measure those types 19 of measurement. 20 You can see down here in the lower 21 baseline starting at 0.0 feet. 22 How we do the diagrams is I took a 23 long screwdriver and at the corner where Copper 24 Creek Court comes into Canfield, I drove a 25 screwdriver down into the dirt and hooked my 250 Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 177 foot measuring tape and 0.0 there. Then from the edge of the road from Canfield, run from 0.0, we run LUMP that tape measure out as far past our last piece of Ab evidence that we need to. If you look on page two of the diagram, it has the measurements and lists of evidence that was collected. How this is measured and the reason why we do this diagram is one, to kind of show a 9 visual picture of the scene, but two, if we ever 10 needed to go back and put evidence back in place, we 11 can easily go back and do that with very little 12 effort. 13 As basic as it is, if you look, 1'11 14 use evidence item number 19 I believe is the 15 farthest one away, you will start at 0.0 and the 16 your first measurement you will see is listed as. 17 You all have your diagrams and probably 18 easier to look at the overhead. 19 A So I will use evidence item number 18 as 20 my example, or 19, it is even number. If you look 21 on the diagram, evidence item number 19 is the 22 bubble here that is farthest to the east. 23 The first column of measurements 24 shows baseline west from Copper Creek, so if you 25 look at the baseline measurement here and walked Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 178 west 31 feet and stopped, in the second column of measurements shows 11 feet 9 inches south of the LUMP baseline. So if you measured 31 feet west, 11 feet Ah 9 inches south, that spot right there is where evidence item 19 is at. You do that for every piece of evidence, even down here the ones, the shell casings we found in the grassy area, evidence item 22, you 9 are 47 feet 4 inches west of the baseline and then 10 31 feet 3 inches south and you'd find the exact spot 11 where that evidence item was placed. 12 The measurements, we did those 13 intersecting measurements for items number 1 through 14 22. 15 Let me stop you. Do those include items 16 like eight and nine, which I think were on the 17 vehicle? 18 A Yes. If you will notice eight and nine do 19 not have measurements on them because those were 20 found on the police vehicle on the driver's side 21 door. So in the second section of marked, it is 22 labeled Ferguson Marked Police Vehicle Number 108, 23 you will find the measurements for the location of 24 each of the four tires from the west baseline and 25 south of baseline measurements. And from there we Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 179 could a You could put the car back? LUMP A We could put the car back where it was at Ab and show you by photographs where those red stains were located. The same for Michael Brown's location, the same exact technique for west from 0.0 baseline, and south left foot and right foot, left hand, right hand and head, and then on the bottom it 9 has a sentence that states again, the baseline runs 10 east to west on north side of Canfield Road, which 11 0 feet 0 inches stops and Copper Creek Court. 12 That's how we do diagramming situations. 13 So to label this not to scale is 14 because these things, if you blew it up to life 15 size, this might not be 153 feet or 152 feet 16 9 inches. To show you the reason why we put that on 17 there is to give you the scale of this size of 18 thing. 19 So just to clarify though, that distance 20 that is between that you already testified about and 21 it is blurry here, but the distance from this point 22 to this point? 23 A That measurement is from the driver's side 24 front tire of Darren Wilson's police car to the head 25 of Michael Brown. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 180 All right. And you said if you blew it 2 up, it might not be whatever that number isscale and size. 4 But that actually is the distance actually 5 between those two items? 6 A Correct. 7 Okay. 8 So the diagram isn't to 9 scale, but the measurements are exact? 10 A The measurements are to scale, but the ll diagram is not drawn to measurement scale. 12 MS. ALIZADEH: Does anybody have any 13 questions about the photographs or the diagram? 14 Okay. 15 (By Ms. Alizadeh) Last thing I have for 16 this witness and this will probably be less than 17 five minutes, unless Sheila can think of other 18 questions. Detective, you took a crime scene video, 19 you have already testified about that's one of the 20 first things you did after your initial 21 walk?through, then you do a video? 22 A Yes. 23 And I have marked this Grand Jury 4. 24 (Deposition Exhibit Number 4 25 marked for identification.) Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume you found that video, the body shields, do you have any questions. September 3, 2014 Page 181 1 (By Ms. Alizadeh) I'm going to play this 2 video right now. 3 You've testified there is audio, but 4 you're not talking on it; is that right? 5 A Yes. 6 (Video is being played.) (End of the 7 video recording.) 8 (By Ms. Alizadeh) Now Detective in and you're the one taking the video? Yes, ma'am. We see you walking basically right around body screens? Yes, ma'am. That you have put up? Correct. At that point in your investigation, had the two red stains that were, I think, 19 I don't think so, no. Those stains went past that location? Yes. All right. MS. ALIZADEH: I think that's it. Sheila, MS. WHIRLEY: Yeah, just something for FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 3 14-241-67 5 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 182 clarification. You may or may not have covered it. 2 (By Ms. Whirley) Your job is not to 3 investigate the crime, is it? 4 A No, just to collect, document, photograph 5 the evidence. 6 You don't talk to any lay witnesses and 7 try to determine what happened or anything like 8 that? 9 A No, ma'am, information from witnesses is 10 usually given to the crimes against persons ll detective that you will hear from later. Items of 12 evidence that may come to light from their 13 interviews is given to me from other detectives. 1 14 do not interview witnesses myself at any time. 15 MS. WHIRLEY: Thank you. You all have 16 anything? 17 I have a 18 question about projectile. I know earlier you 19 mentioned inside of the patrol car there was no 20 casings? 2l A Correct. 22 Was there a projectile in 23 there. 24 A There was one recovered later, not by me, 25 it was another detective, I'm sure you'll hear from Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 183 him that he processed the vehicle at our crime lab. The one that was found, I LUMP think it was number 17, labeled 17. Lb A Yes, sir. Is that one that entered the body and came out? A I can't testify to that. One of the ballistics firearms people that you might hear from, 9 they can answer those questions, I cannot. 10 Yes, ma'am. ll . In the 12 video I'm seeing, and your photographs, I'm seeing 13 that there was shattered glass within the vehicle? 14 A Yes. 15 I'm only seeing two pieces 16 sitting in the driver's seat of Officer Darren l7 Wilson's vehicle. 18 A Yes, ma'am. 19 Was there any on the floor 20 that you recall, I didn't really see any in the 21 pictures as well? 22 A I haven't looked at the other detectives' 23 photos extensively. I know when I went to the crime 24 lab to finish packaging my evidence, the vehicle was 25 down there and there was a significant amount of Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 184 glass inside the door panel itself once they removed 2 that cover. 3 Inside the door panel 4 itself? 5 A Yes. 6 Can you tell me what kind 7 of vehicle is this, do you recall? 8 A It was a Chevy Tahoe. 9 Chevy Tahoe. 10 A Chevy SUV. I'm not sure if it was a ll Suburban or a Tahoe. 12 All right, thanks. 13 MS. ALTZADEH: Just real quickly. There 14 was another part of your investigation you did 15 another video from a perspective and that was 16 because you were told somebody saw something from a 17 particular window; is that correct? 18 A Yes, ma'am, I did one and I know another 19 detective that was at the scene did other oneswhere, I can't remember the 21 address, it is on the evidence receipt, they had us 22 go to different eyewitness perspectives just to 23 stand there and video similar to this. There is not 24 narration in it, it simply is a video, me standing, 25 or whoever the camera operator was at the time, Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 185 i standing where the witness states they were standing i 2 and observed whatever it was they observed. 3 Again, there is not a narrative 4 stating they saw this, they were seeing this and my 5 particular video I know that I stood at the section 6 where the witness stated she saw what was going on. 7 I attempted to use our video camera to zoom in 8 across the parking lot where she was saying she 9 could see everything happening. 10 My camera would only focus on the ll screen part of the door. It was through a sliding l2 patio door, it would only focus on the screen no 13 matter how much I would zoom in, it wouldn't show 14 the scene from her perspective. I zoomed back, you 15 had to step to the left and then zoomed in again to 16 show the distance where she was seeing things and I7 kind of give you a reference point because at the 18 time when I did my witness perspective video, it was 19 after we had picked everything up. 20 It was the last thing, a witness had 21 come forward at the very end and said hey, I think I 22 saw this from here. The detective interviewed and 23 asked to go down and shoot a witness perspective 24 from her standpoint. 25 MS. ALIZADEH: You will see that video Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 186 i 1 later, but I would rather show that to you in i 2 conjunction with that witness testimony so it will 3 be easier for you to kind of tie those together, but 4 from his perspective, you know his job, your job was 5 then just to stand, whatever witness says where they 6 were and film where she says what she saw she saw? 7 A Yes, ma'am. 8 (By Ms. Alizadeh) And the purpose of that 9 is just to see could she see that, are there things 10 in the way, was it such as that, correct? 11 A Correct. 12 Now, you said that from filming it, the 13 camera would not focus beyond the screen? 14 A The human could see through the screen 15 and focus on a point farther than that. 16 Okay. 17 A The camera I was using at the time has 18 focal limitations and would focus just on the 19 screen. 20 Let me ask you this, from your eyewitness 21 perspective, could you see, not what she saw, could 22 you see the place where she said she saw something? 23 A From that specific perspective, she could 24 only see where Michael Brown came to rest. 25 Okay. And so from whatever perspective Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 187 1 she was, she could not see farther west to where the 2 officer's vehicle was? 3 A No. 4 Okay. But you are standing in her 5 position, you could see where Michael Brown's body 6 had been? 7 A Yes. 8 How much farther west could you see beyond 9 Michael Brown's body? 10 A You could see from the angle she was at, 11 which was to give you an orientation because head. She was on the northeast part of 13 the apartment complex. 14 Let's use your diagram. 15 A Here it is. Her apartment building, if 16 this is the entrance to Copper Creek Court, her 17 apartment building is farther back this way, which 18 would be the upper right?hand corner of the diagram. 19 Again, this is not to scale, this 20 building in particular comes from close to this 21 driveway. Her perspective, and if I can come up 22 here and use my finger to show, her perspective 23 would have been on this line and the corner of the 24 building would block the red stain where Michael 25 Brown's body had been. You could just barely see Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 188 the stain in the road, the red stain in the road 2 where his body had been. 3 The large stain that was at his head? 4 A Yes, that was still present. It was at an 5 angle just like this, where this building would have 6 come out at that angle and cut that part of the 7 scene off where she couldn't see anything else. 8 Okay. Do you remember her name? 9 A I just wrote down her 10 address. ll When that witness testifies, we will play 12 that video for what it's worth given the focal 13 limitations of the camera? 14 Could she see to 15 the east the full rest of the crime scene? 16 A Yes, it was a third floor apartment. 17 MS. ALIZADEH: Anybody else? And as 18 always, if there are questions later on of this 19 officer and you would like to have him brought back, 20 he will come back. 2l All right. That concludes the testimony 22 of Detective . And that will conclude 23 the evidence for today, September 3rd, of the grand 24 jury investigation into the shooting of Michael 25 Brown. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 189 i 1 (Court reporter reads the end of the a 2 recording information and that is the end of the 3 September 3rd, 2014 grand jury hearing for today.) Lb Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 190 1 State of Missouri 2 SS. 3 County of St. Charles 4 l, a Licensed Certified Court 5 Reporter by the Supreme Court in and for the State 6 of Missouri, duly commissioned, qualified and 7 authorized to administer oaths and to certify to 8 depositions, do hereby certify that pursuant to 9 Notice in the civil cause now pending and 10 undetermined in the County of St. Louis, State of ll Missouri. 12 The said witness, being of sound mind and being 13 by the grand jury first carefully examined and duly l4 cautioned and sworn to testify to the truth, the 15 whole truth, and nothing but the truth in the case 16 aforesaid, thereupon testified as is shown in the 17 foregoing transcript, said testimony being by me 18 reported in shorthand and caused to be transcribed 19 into typewriting, and that the foregoing page 20 correctly sets forth the testimony of the 2l aforementioned witness, together with the questions 22 propounded by counsel and grand jurors thereto, and 23 is in all respects a full, true, correct and 24 complete transcript of the questions propounded to 25 and the answers given by said witness. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 191 i I further certify that the foregoing pages contain a a true and accurate reproduction of the proceedings. LUMP I further certify that I am not of counsel or Lb attorney for either of the parties to said suit, not related to nor interested in any of the parties or their attorneys. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 192 1 COURT MEMO 2 3 4 State of Missouri vs. Darren Wilson 5 6 7 8 CERTIFICATE OF OFFICER AND 9 STATEMENT OF DEPOSITION CHARGES ll DEPOSITION OF Hearing Before the Grand Jury, 12 Volume 2 14 9/3/2014 15 Name and address of person or firm having custody of 16 the original transcript: 18 St. Louis County Prosecuting Attorney's Office 19 100 S. Central Ave. 20 Clayton, MO 63105 Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 193 i ORIGINAL TRANSCRIPT TAXED IN FAVOR OF: LUMP Lb St. Louis County Prosecuting Attorney's Office 100 S. Central Ave. Clayton, MO 63l05 Total: Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Hearing Before the Grand Jury, Volume 2 September 3, 2014 Page 194 1 2 Upon delivery of transcripts, the above 3 charges had not been paid. It is anticipated 4 that all charges will be paid in the normal course 5 of business. 6 GORE PERRY GATEWAY LIPA REPORTING COMPANY 7 515 Olive Street, Suite 700 8 St. Louis, Missouri 63101 9 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set 10 STATEMENT OF DEPOSITION CHARGES 11 my hand and seal on this day of 12 Commission expires 13 14 Notary Public Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 chBOCba-aOOf-4859-9745 -afcc42b4708c