August 13, 2014 1:50 pm. Detective St. Louis County Police Department Bureau of Crimes Against Persons DSN Detective Special Agent Attorney Unknown Male 2 UMZ DET. DET. DET. DET. DET. DET. DET. DET. SA Today is Wednesday, August 13 and the time is 1:50 pm. This is Detective with the St. Louis County Police Department Bureau Crimes Against Persons, DSN I?m here at the, uh, FBI, uh division headquarters in St. Louis. Uh, in a interview room with Special Agent and uh, also present in the interview room is ma'am would you say your name for the recorder please? Attorney 0k and you are and you are obviously present is that correct? Yes Ok. what is your date of birth? 0k and what is your social security number? uh, honestly I couldn?t tell you. Ok (Inaudible) Spell your, uh, spell your first name for me. DET. DET. DET. DET. UMZ: UMZ: DET. DET. DET. DET. DET. And your last name? Your last name. is your last Yeah, yes Ok. And, what is your home address? Here you go young man. Thank you. You?re welcome. Yes. And that is, uh, a complex that is just to the east of Canfield Green. Is that correct? Yes. Ok. What?s your cell phone? I?m not comfortable givin? out my number. Ok. Well how would we contact you if we needed You can contact me. I can give you my number. Do you want Please. DET. SA DET. DET. DET DET. DET. DET. DET. DET. DET. Ok. Easy to remember. Yes. do you work? No. You do not? Ok. And then sir would you just say your name for the recorder please? And, uh, what is your date of birth? And your home address? Um, actually I don?t have one right now. I?m in between. Do you have a cell phone? Uh, no. Alright. And this is reference to St. Louis County complaint number one four dash four three nine eight four and in associated Ferguson complaint number one four dash one two three nine one. Uh, you were obviously asked to come down here today and, uh, is that correct? Yes. 0k and you did so and you arrived with your attorney and with your Yes. And, uh I appreciate you coming down here, I appreciate all of you coming down. And if, what we?re gonna do is uh, just ask you a few questions about, uh, the incident at hand and I?m sure you know what I?m talkin? about, right? Yes. With, with Michael Brown and his death. 3 DET. DET. DET. DET. DET. SA SA DET. Yes. Ok. Uh, we have it, uh, that you were a witness to this incident. Is that correct? Yes sir. That is correct? Yes. Ok would you do me a favor, please? Would you scoot forward just a little bit towards the Excuse me. uh, chair here. Alright. Would you please, uh, retell into the recorder, uh, your account of what took place that day. 0k and we?re obviously gonna stop you and ask you some clarifying questions, but just kinda start from the beginning and go on through. Ok? Alright. Michael Brown was my best friend and I witnessed him being executed in the middle of the street like he was nothing. And I was at my sister?s house at the time which we were living at, which is at Canfield Apartments and my sister lives two minutes away. And what's your sister?s name? I?m not givin? that out. Could you tell us Can, can I say some, ask some clarifying questions for him? Sure. Ok, now, you say your sister, what floor was she on? She lived on the third floor in Canfield Apartments. 0k, and that was right above the incident that took place? Yes, I seen it through the window. Ok Can you tell us what building? 4 SA SA DET. SA SA SA DET. SA DET. DET. Can you tell him the exact building that it was in? Not the address, but the, just the building or point it out on that photo? It was on a curve, I You can?t really from that area of It came from, comin? down Canfield from where it started to basically almost the So this is West Florissant. It was on the last building. It was just in the enclosed part, in Canfield. The last building. Here? Close to Northwinds, yes, this is, this is Yeah. Um hum. My sister?s building is right about, right there. That?s my sister?s building. That?s your sis, Yes. Could you put an on that? Ok. And what floor is she on? The third floor. I?m gonna mark that a little darker right there. 0k, and where were you at in the, uh, apartment? was in my nephew?s room. And which way does, a, your nephew?s The window faces right out to where he was killed at, which is right here. He got killed right here. DET. DET. DET. DET. DET. DET. SA SA Ok. Alright, so we?re saying that, that this would be the apartment right Yes. Correct? And so what window were you looking out within the apartment? The, it was only two windows. It, the one that was facing the street which was right here. (Inaudible) and this, and you?re making reference to a west facing window that looks towards Canfield is that Yes. In the direction that I?m moving my pen right The way you?re movin? it is the direction, that?s exactly where I was lookin?. Ok. So you?re look, you?re in your nephew?s bedroom, Yes. And you?re lookin? out the window and what do you see? I was on the phone, I heard the first gunshot. I didn?t see the first gun shot, but when I looked out the window, cause I knew that Michael Brown and my cousin were walkin? to the store and I heard the first gunshot so instantly I hopped up and looked out the window and what I seen was Michael Brown drop to his knees and he had on a grey t-shirt and blood was rushing from either his shoulder or his rib cage, I know it was somewhere on the left portion of his body. And he was like, and I heard it and the window was closed so it was very loud and it was people honestly actually out there. I seen him drop to his knees and I seen the What do you mean there were people out there? It Sorry to interrupt. It was people out there, like it was regular day. People walking kids, walking dogs any other regular day of livin? in where live. Kids outsideSaturday, so of course it was gonna be a whole lot of traffic comin' in and out. SA SA SA SA SA DET. SA SA Atty Ok. So, I seen Michael Brown, my best friend drop to his knees, he dropped to his knees he looked at my cousin and told him "run for your life?. Where, where was your cousin? Dorian. Ok, where, where was he? He was right next to him. That?s the one who?s been givin? statements on CNN and That?s my cousin. Um hum. lseent them, I seen him runnin?. I seen Michael Brown drop to his knees and when he said that my cousin took off and ran. And I seen them shoot Michael Brown in the head as soon as the police officer exit, exited his So where was First of all, I wanna, I wanna tell you that you?re talkin? to an FBI agent can charge you with one thousand and one later so I wanna make sure that you think about everything that you tell me- l?m not, this is not no lie. I would never lie about this. This is my best I?m just, I?m just get, we give this statement to They give this statement to everybody just to make sure you know that you?re under And I I?m not gonna lie ljust wanted to, you know, As God as my witness I would never lie on anything like SA SA SA DET. DET. SA DET. DET. DET. DET. SA Ok, well I?m just tellin? you that if you lie to me, we will charge with lying to an FBI agent. So I?m just tellin? you Why would I, why would I, look me in my eyes, please. I want both of ya?ll to look me in my eyes. Do these look There?s no reason to I?m just sayin? do these look like a person who?s lyin?? There?s no reason to get upset, I?m just tellin? Ok. Does this look like a face that?s lyin?? But, just as in Just informing you. Right, just as I?m tellin? you. I shouldn?t, I?m tellin? you what I saw, what I For evidence they have to say this so they can?t Ok (Inaudible) You understand what she?s sayin? is that correct? Yes. 0k. Ok then let?s move on, alright? OK. All we?re askin? is we just want you to tell the truth. Can I, can I say this? Can I clarify this? Can I Yeah. Alright, just tell him, this is the truth. Am I correct? This is the truth. You will not lie about this incident. DET. DET. DET. DET. DET DET. DET. DET. I will never, ever lie on my best friend. Ok. Now, I want you to back up, ok? And tell me from the point, I want you to go into more detail about the point where you said you saw Michael Brown with his hands up, Ok? And go in more detail, Ok? Well, can I, can I stop you there? Ok, I guess, first, let?s, let's go back Ok. You hear that gunshot, right? And you get up and you look out your window. Yes. And when you look out your window, I want you to, to draw a picture for me of what you see. Ok? Tell me everything that you ljust, ljust told you, I seen my friend have blood rushin' from his shoulder or his right rib or his left rib. Through here he had a grey t-shirt on, it?s no way of coverin? that up. seent it. Excuse me though, can you explain how it all, ya know, where was the police in reference to (inaudible) Here, Ok, yeah and here?s what here?s what I want you to Paint the I?m tellin? you what I Ok. put an where you saw Michael Brown standing when you first went to that window. Ok? And He was, he wasn?t standing when I went to the window. He was on his knees in the middle of 0k, put an where you see, where you see And, there was But I think, I think too that?s, I mean just to say something. Is it better aerial view? OK. I guess it's alright And, SA DET. DET. DET. Atty SA DET. These are the online Closer aerial Granted, I have, I have no expectation that we?re talking about that he?s, you know, that we?ve got a specific GPS coordinate on where it?s 0k, ok, ok. I realize that we?re, that we?re using a map here. Ok, so, you?re here, Michael Brown is here, is that correct? Yes. 0k, and you?re saying that at this point right here and there?s anything that is said in here today that is incorrect, please correct it. Ok? If I say Idon?t have to correct anything No, he?s sayin (Inaudible) anything (inaudible) (Inaudible) I know what I saw. No-no-no, if I say (inaudible). Ok? Slow down, slow down UI He don't want you to characterize what you?re sayin? He wanna make sure you I?m not characterizing anything. No, No, listen to me one second . He wants to make sure that when he feeds back what he?s hearing from you, that it?s correct. Not that you are correct by what you?re sayin? that he?s correct and understanding what you?re tellin? 10 DET. DET. SA DET. SA DET. SA SA SA Yeah. That?s what he?s sayin?. He?s not saying are you correct about what you?re sayin?, are you lying. No. He wants feed back what he?s hearing from you to make sure he understands what you saw. You know what you Can?t nobody tell me what I saw. No, oh no he?s not done Okay, alright. If I tell He said If I tell, if I tell you, alright, so what you?re saying is he turns he turned and he picked up a hamburger, right? And you say, I want you to say "No, that?s not the case?. He turned and he picked up a soda, right? So he?s gonna Ok. what he?s already, Youn? He?s gonna retell what he?s already heard you say and he He to interrupt say, no that?s not he says something that?s not That?s not what I?m sayin?. I?m not, that?s not what I?m sayin?. I?m sayin? this. So you can make Yeah, that?s what he sayin?, you, what you He wanna make sure that, that he?s not misunderstanding you. That's all. That?s all. Yes. 11 DET. DET. DET. DET. DET. DET. DET. Ok. I seen my best friend in the middle of the street with his hands in the air and he said, "please don't shoot me. The officer got out of his car and shot him. Stop, I?m gonna stop you there. Ok? (Inaudible) Just, just bare with us, ok? Cause here?s what, here?s what needs to happen, ok? In order for us to accurately understand what happened out here, ok? We have to ask you a lot of specific questions. Ok? And that?s And I?m giving very specific answers. Hold on, Hold on. Listen, ok. And that?s not us trying to, trying to be petty or us not trying to be, you know what I (Inaudible) up front. It?s, it?s it?s the, the details that matter in this, ok? Yes. But, I?m tellin? you what I saw, I know, I know you That if you can?t answer the question he asked you, then you can?t answer (Inaudible) can I please, can I please tell you. Can I, can I Can, is it alright if he tells a story and then come back and ya'll get the details of (Inaudible Multiple people talking at one time) DET. If he say his story and then, and then, Can I please tell the story? Go ahead. 12 DET DET. DET. DET. SA DET. lseent him in the middle of the street with his hands up. I seen an officer. I couldn?t even tell you what the man looked like. I seen him exit his car, shoot him in his head and then he shot him eight more times. It was four gunshots, then it was a ten second pause and then there was four more. And that's all I saw and by the time I made it outside, it was a crowd of people sayin? they killed that boy for nothin?. And the reason why I knew it was him was because of what type of socks he had on. ?Cause he had just left my house. Ok, where was the officer standing when he shot him, in relation to Michael Brown? It was, he was standin? in front of him. How far? Point blank range, like Describe, Close, he was close to him. Gimme a frame of reference, His, his police cruiser was still on the side of them at the time. Could you draw the police cruiser on the map? I can?t. How about this, how about this, can you, ok let?s say, listen to me, listen to You gotta do this together. Ok, listen to me. Let?s say this is Michael Brown, ok? Right? Um hum. Ok, where was the police car? Like just show it by your hand. It was, Michael Brown was right here, the police cruiser was right behind him. Use this pen. Use this pen. Here?s the car. Use this as your car and this is Michael 13 DET. DET. SA DET. DET. DET. SA DET. DET. Police cruiser was right, police cruiser was right behind him and Michael Brown was right there with his hands up and the officer was in front of him, like he got out of his car. He had, he got out of his car and walked up to him and looked him in his and he told my cousin to run for his life and he shot him. In his head. Can you draw a car? Right? Can you draw, and, it, cause It doesn?t have to be perfectjust a rectangle for a I wanna make sure we understand I?m not, just, I just demonstrated to you what I just I know Would you feel comfortable if I do it? Will you Yeah-yeah, I?ll feel more comfortable if you drew it. Ok. Just the car. Just the car, ok. Yeah just (inaudible). Ok, can I. Ok, tell me, look at, look at this. Is this, this is the car, right? Ok, I can?t draw. I'm sorry. I can?t either Alright, this is the front of the car, ok? Yes. So the car goes this way, right? Here's the front of the car. Alright, now. Michael Brown was on the side of the car. Right here. So he was on the passenger side the driver?s side. 14 DET. MTV. MTV. DET. DET. DET. DET. DET. Ok, the driver?s side. Ok. So he, is he like this? Is he like? He?s facing, he facing the opposite So he facing, like, is he like this in front? Yeah, he was facing the opposite way. Ok, now write out, I?m, I?m From, from my window he was facing the opposite way. His feet was towards the window? His feet was, his feet was towards the So his back His back was towards the car. 0k. Ok, so I'm gonna put a circle where Michael Brown Yeah. And is that where you want me to put that circle, right Yes. is it somewhere different? It was right on the side of the police cruiser. Ok, I?m gonna put that circle right here and now I?m gonna draw an arrow which way Mike, which way Michael Brown was facing. Should I draw that arrow going this way or should I He was arrow going this way? He was facing that way. That way. 15 DET. DET. DET. DET. DET. SA SA SA His head was Yesorder to do something to him. Ok, now where is the police officer at? In front of Michael Brown, with his hands, with Michael Brown with his hands up. The police was, the police officer was in front of him. Ok, so if now you draw me a circle where the police officer was please. Right in front. Here just do it, he, cause he don?t wanna say he drew that for you. Right in front of him. Right there, like a step away. And which way is the police officer facing? He is facing Michael Brown. Ok, so I?m gonna put an arrow right here facing this way, ok? And so we?re just gonna say that this is the police officer, right? And I?m gonna say, I?m just gonna use initials here, I?m gonna say for Michael Brown. Is that correct in what we go right here? Yes. Ok. Now let me ask you this question ok. What, how far is Michael Brown from the officer? They was, he was right in front of him with the gun drawed to his (inaudible) (Inaudible) So as close as we are? As close are with his hands on his knees like this. As close as we were just 16 this table, between this table, yes. SA Ok. About that much space? Yes, about that much space away from him. DET. So we?re No more than five feet. No more than five feet. DET Ok, so this, and uh, and just so we?re clear here, I?m gonna put uh, uh, little line here and a little line here and I?m gonna draw this down and I?m gonna indicate that this is five feet apart. Is that correct? No more. ATFY. Well, can you Point blank (lnaudible multiple people talking at one time) DET. Roughly, approximately, ATFY. was close range even SA Five feet (lnaudible) (lnaudible) but y?all gotta understand I was watching from the window. DET (lnaudible) DET. I understand. I?m gonna say approximately five feet or Yeah DET. Would you say that? 17 DET. DET. SA DET. DET. DET. DET. DET. DET. Yeah. Like I know that they was very They was close. Alright. And now how far from the, this is the driver?s side of the car right here because this is the front, right? Yeah. How far from the front, from the driver's side of this car right here was Michael Brown? What?s the distance here that we?re talking about? I could say it was about, it could have been the same distance. About five feet or less? It could have been the same distance. Ok, so I'm gonna do the same thing I?m gonna draw uh, UI here and I?m gonna say, and I again, we?re approximating, right? Approximately five feet. Did you say or less on this one? More or less. ldon?t want to put words in your No-no, it was five feet or more. Or more. You thinkin? more? Yeah. How many more feet do you think? And you can use the, the wall in this room or you can use a, if you played If if you play basketball. The police cruiser was close but it wasn?t very, very, very close, like how he got out his car I would say five to less you Hold on, sir, eh, 18 DET. DET. DET. DET. DET. DET. DET. Oh, I?m sorry. me I understand, ok, but. That?s right. You right. It was, it was five feet. It was either five, it was between five to six feet. Five to six feet. Yeah. Ok, now. Now we got this car here, right? And this is the front of this car, ok. Yes. Now can you tell me on this map where was that car at? If Michael Brown was right here the car was right here on the side, ?cause Michael Brown was in the middle of the street in the yellow line. Ok. So can you draw an, uh rectangle a square, whatever you need to Ican?t cause the is too big, cause the, that was too small. Well again, but it doesn?t have to be exact. Brown is in the middle of the street where is. Um hum He was on, right there. That's the officer? That was the (Unaudible) cruiser. Oh, that was the cruiser? The cru, the, the truck. He was in a truck. 19 DET. DET. DET. DET DET DET DET. DET. DET DET. Oh okay. It was a Ferguson truck. 0k. 0k. Alright. Ok. So, we?ve got the truck here, we?ve got where Michael Brown falls right Yes. that correct? Ok. So now, now let?s come back to this point here. Ok? And You know this is depressing. you?re doin? good, ok? Um hum. Bare with us, alright? We gotta make sure we?re doin? this right, ok? Front of the vehicle's here, here?s Michael Brown, here?s the officer, right? And this is all correct. Is it not? Yes. Alright. What do you see at this point when these two are standing here and I know you?ve said it, uh, you?ve said it once but say it again, ok? I seen blood drippin? on his shirt. I seen it. It was stained, he had a gray t-shirt on. Blood stains. Where did you see the blood stains at? On the left side of his body. Ok. ?Cause that's the way I seent it. The way I seen him it was either from his shoulder, it was somewhere on his left upper body. 0k. 20 DET. DET. DET. DET. DET. DET. DET. DET. DET. I can?t, exactly say where it was. It was on the left proportion of his body. And at this point is he standing? Kneeling? Sitting? Laying down? What? When he shot him I couldn?t tell you. When I came to the window I seen him with his hands his knees and I heard "please don?t shoot me.? 0k, and the point that you?re talking about is the point that you see this, this situation right Yes. that correct? Yes. Ok, so you see Michael Brown on his knees with his hands up in the air- Yes. demonstrate how you?re putting your hands up in the air. How did you see his hands? So you have your hands not entirely all r-raised but essentially raised all the way up. And he was, he was, he was a big guy. He was six, about six five. Ok. He, his arms was probably a little bit long 'cause he had his hands up. I don?t know about angle, none of that. He had his hands up. Ok, so you have your hands up, right? Just in demonstrating what he?s doing and he is on his knees? On his knees. 0k. 0k. And what is he saying? "Please don?t shoot me.? Ok. What else does he say? Anything? He told my cousin to run for his life. 21 DET. DET. DET. DET. DET. DET. DET. DET. DET. Ok. What else does he say? Anything? That was it. By that time the officer shot him. Ok. Now, does-would the officer, the, we?re talking about this police officer Yes. by the Yes. who?s five feet away. Correct? Yes. Ok. What does that officer do? And, uh, and when I ask what he do, what he, what does he do I?m asking you what is he saying? What are his actions? Icouldn?t hear him say anything. I just heard Michael Brown pe-pleadin? for his life. And that man out his cruiser, shot him in the head. I seen him let off, and when his body dropped he let off four more rounds and by the time I got to the end of the steps, he had emptied uh, he had shot four more times so in a totally of eight times. Ok. I heard gun shots. You heard eight gun shots total? No, I?m talkin? about after he killed him with the head shot. I heard two. I seen the one in his head and somewhere when he shot him, so for in total it was ten. Ok. Do, do this for me. Ok? You?re now the police officer, ok? Would you stand up and demonstrate for me what you?re talking about so I can visualize it Do you want me I can do it if you want me to. no, land I, 0k. 22 DET. DET. DET. DET. DET. DET. DET. DET. DET. DET. like him to if that?s alright. The police officer? You?re the police officer now. And, and (Inaudible) the time he got out. I use youframe of reference for Michael Brown? 0k. 0k, l-let?s just make the assumption that she?s on her knees, ok? Want me to get on my knees? No ma?am. (Inaudible) (laughter) That's fine, just please. Just sit on the chair. (Inaudible) Is that correct? Yes. Ok. He walked up to him. Looked him in his eyes. My cousin, my, Michael Brown looked at my cousin Dorian and said run for your life. My cousin was right there crying. He said run for your life. He, my cousin was in shock. He didn?t know what to do. He told him run for his life. And he looked at him and walked up to him and did this, and he dropped. Then- Ok. looked out the win-drop, drop (inaudible) So, Michael Br-Michael I looked out the window. He look, he was, no, he drop, drop all the way down. He turned to the, Michael Brown was turned to the side. That?s 23 DET. DET. DET. DET DET. DET. DET. DET. how he, that?s how when they said he had got shot in his arm, ?cause that how he dropped. Ok. He stood over him and shot him four times. At where you?re standing right now, would, you would be (Inaudible) in front of him like this, four times. Ok. Four, hit him four times. The last four, I didn?t see ?cause when I seen them four (Inaudible) ran out. By that time I got to the bottom of the steps, I (Inaudible) more and then it was over with. I didn?t even see the officer flee- Ok. didn?t see anything. Ok, sir, y-go ahead and, thank you. Um hum. I appreciate you for helping out. Um hum. out. Ok, so just so I?m clear and because obviously the recorder cannot pick up what we?re doing at this point, ok. Your uncle was on his knees with his hands up in the air, you walked up to your uncle facing your uncle, right? So you guys, you were standing at him and you pointed your hand out as if you were holding a gun, correct? Yes. And you were essentially at point blank range where that, your hand was, almost touching your uncle?s 24 DET. DET. DET. DET. DET. SA SA SA SA SA Yes. that correct? Ok. And you said that that officer fired one shot? One shot. And Michael Brown falls to the ground. He fell to Ok. fell flat. Fells, falls flat on the ground. He fall flat, he turns and the officer shot him four more times. That?s how he got shot in his arm, cause I seent it on the news where they said where he had bullet wounds at. That?s how they said he got shot in his Ok., I, I sir. I I, believe me, I, I understand but I don?t When he fell, how did he fall? He fell like this. On his side? Yes. He wasn?t just straight flat. He was kinda lumped on his He, yeah, he?s, yes he was like on his side. Um hum. And, that?s how he, and he shot him four more times and by the time I got downstairs, four more shots from me walkin? those twenty steps down, I heard four more shots in a total of ten shots. And I heard neighbors runnin? outside cryin? and they was like theyjust killed that baby for nothin?. So you said you saw blood on his left shoulder, was that It was, I don?t was still standin? 25 DET. DET. DET. DET. SA was, that?s why he had his hands up. When the officer shot him he dropped to his knees. ?Cause he said he didn?t see the first ldidn?t see the first heard the first heard the first he had saw the second on which was the head what made me get up, seen-l seen the second one that?s what was the head That?s when he fell. what actually killed him, was the head shot. 50 he musta had already been dead. For that man to have some hatred in him to shoot him eight more times. Ok. Is this your best recollection of, of this account? Yes. And this is a truthful account of what you?re Yes, I, I would never lie. I wouldn?t lie on my best friend. This is my best friend. Is there anything that you feel is important that we should know, anything that (Inaudible) questions we didn?t ask you that we should have asked you? No, Ijust, this the question I got. Why? So were there other, uh, people there? Can, can somebody answer that question? But they can answer that 'cause they tryin? to get the investigation to find out the right things, so they can?t answer that, ok? 26 SA DETWhere there other people there that witnessed the shooting? Ican?t tell who witnessed. I can?t, I can only tell What you I saw and my side of the story. That?s the only thing I can be accountable for is for what I saw. I understand that. Were that-any other police officers present? I didn?t see, I didn?t see any body, 'cause when, 'cause everybody ran, eh, up and was like what?s goin? on, what?s goin? on. And, I can just tell you what I saw, ?cause everything had blacked out ?cause I just seen my friend executed and seent it. Was there someone else in the apartment with you? No, my sister had just left to go to my mom?s house which lives in Northwinds, which is my home. What, did she leave on foot? Or, did she drive? She left on foot. Ok. It was, it was, it's not even a one minute walk from my sister?s house to my house. 'Cause we didn?t have no cable and my sister left because she wanted to go ho-go to my mother?s house and watch TV. Ok. You said that you knew what he was wearing because he had just left you Yes, he, he there before he walked to the, another location or to the store or Yes. you said he was going? I was takin? care of him the whole time while his grandmother was in the hospital. I?m talkin' about buying food. My mother the day before that took me and him grocery shoppin? that mornin? to, uh, get some food for us because we, were, I haven?t been, I ain?t been eatin? ljust been nervous, just, I just had a, a, gut feelin? that somethin? bad was 27 gonna happen to somebody that was close to me. And I couldn?t honestly say it was him but, I knew somethin? was fittin? happen. So do you know about what time this occurred? It was around, it was around eleven. It was, it was eleven thirty, between eleven thirty and twelve o?clock. 0k, and why do you think it was I know that?s what time, ?cause that?s what time I woke up ?cause my girlfriend called ?cause I was on the phone with her. Ok, so you, were you on the phone with your girlfriend when you saw this? When I heard the first shot, I said "hold on, let me call you back?. Um hum. And, (inaudible) What?s your girlfriend's name? I?m not givin? that. I?m not that givin? that out. Ok. You understand why we?re askin?? It's so if there is somebody (Inaudible) can story, I wanna know why I?m bein?, never mind. Never mind. If that?s somethin? you don?t choose to answer you don?t have to. I?m not answerin'. I?m not answerin? that. 28 SA SA SA SA SA SA Yeah, you don?t have to, you don?t have to answer that, but he, they just tryin? to make sure, like say like to put the pieces together so I understand. Ok? It?s, it's no pieces to put together. Everything I told you is one hundred percent the No, I, But from their angle, and you know I?m not against you at But what if we have witnesses that did not say the same thing that you just told us? I?m tellin? you what I saw and not because he was my best friend, it?s because I knew that that was wrong. It could not have been my best friend, it could have been anybody else and I still would have cried ?cause that was dead wrong. So there?s no reason why you would come in lie to us today? Yes, I would never come in and lie at all. I was takin? care of this man while his granny was in the hospital. My uncle came and seen us two, three days before that and we was playin' him some music that we made. Tryin' to see if he would put us into the studio. He been with me Everyday. since So he was with you earlier that day in the morning? And now I?m talkin? about Michael Brown. was, I was sleep. He used my phone, he called his granny to check on his granny to make sure she?s alright ?cause she was in the hospital. Um hum. He came and tossed me my phone and said "I?m fittin? walk to the store?. I said "Alright, I?m fittin? stay here and get some sleep?. What about the other person that was with him, was he also in the apartment with you? He was sittin? outside. Ok, outside the 29 They had or outside no, outside my door. Ok. He Do you know what his name? that's they already have his name. He already. I know his name. I?m curious to know do you know his Just say his Dorian. Dorian. 0k, and you know his name is Dorian because you saw it on the news or you know That is my blood Just, just answer it. Just make See they don?t know, they don?t don?t know that so just say how you know his That is my cousin. Ok, so, he That was my cousin. the apartment with you. Michael Brown was in the apartment with you. Yes, he-they was outside talkin? he used my phone. Um hum. Threw it back to me and was like "we fittin? walk to the store? I said "Ok, I?m fittin? stay here and get some sleep? I didn?t go to sleep until six o?clock that morning because I had a feelin? that somethin? bad was fitti? 30 happen. I didn't get no sleep that night. I, he told me to go to sleep, everything gonna be alright ?cause I expressed that to him. Um hum. Just like I done expressed to my family, Ok, so what time did Mr. Brown leave your apartment to go to the store? Do you know? Between eleven thirty, between eleven thirty and, And twelve? thirty and twelve, yes. Ok, so this incident happened right after he left to go to the store. Uh, heh, I guess it happened on the way back. Ok, so what time did Mr. Brown leave your apartment to go to the store? If you don?t know, just say you don?t know. I don?t Ok. just, I just gave a time increment on when I know I woke up and heard the gunshot, which was between eleven and twelve. I cannot give you no specific time, but it was between eleven and twelve. Ok. Eleven thirty and twelve. Ok. And lcan?t get any more specific than that. he left to go to the store, don? know what time it was. You heard a gunshot sometime between eleven thirty and Yes. then you told us what you 31 SA SA (Inaudible) SA DET. DET. DET. DET. DET. SA Yes. Ok. Yes. Could you sign and date this please? May I, uh, assist him on this? Yeah. Make sure you put So, you, you say you changed your name? Yeah. Ok. When did you do that? Uh, he, he can pro-he has the right of self identity, you know. Ok. We wanna make sure that his original rights are really respected throughout whatever goes on through this, you know what I mean. And he has a right of self determination. In the name of his fore fathers. Can?t take that from him. (Inaudible) But can he also put the name that he, that you UI yeah that?s why I Ok. why I said that?s Wait, what is the day today? Eight thirteenth. Thirteenth. 32 SA SA SA DET. Det DET. SA DET. Eight. Eight thirteen fourteen. Um hum. Can you put X, He did. I know. ok. I?m sorry. Eight thirteen? Um hum. Fourteen. You know which way Dorian ran? Icouldn?t tell which way he ran. Can you He, he told me personally he ducked behind um, a white Monte Carlo when the shots rang out. Where, where did you see Dorian at, at first? He was right, I couldn?t tell you. Only thing I seen was him in the middle of the street. My cousin said he ran and ducked behind one of these cars but I know for a fact they were together because they left, when they left my house they were together. That?s the last person he told me that he was with, was my cousin Dorian. Um hum. Icouldn?t tellin? you what I saw personally. I can?t tell you for everything that hap-I?m tellin? you what I saw personally. Ok, so did you see Dorian out there? Or are you, were you basing that off what you, what he told you later on after the event? I knew he was out there. 33 DET. DET. DET. DET. DET. DET. DET. DET. DET. DET. But did you see him out there? He said he ran when the first shot rang I understand I don?t So what I?m asking you is did you see So just, if you don?t, didn?t honestly see him. Ok. Fair enough. And that, that?s all, that?s all I?m getting? at, 0k? Yeah (inaudible). Alright. I?m just gonna mark here, uh, that this right here is your sister?s apartment, right? Yes. And that, this, uh, rectangle here you identified as being Yes that is, it is, it is a grass hill between where they was fittin? to walk and to my parkin? lot, which my parkin? lot is right here, so you know that there was that close. Ok. He was twelve steps away from here. Alright. The rectangle is identified as a police vehicle and this is, and I?m just gonna use an initial here for B. Is that correct? Yes. Ok. All that is correct, uh as we, as we had discussed it, correct? Yes. Alright. You ok with that? Um hum. 34 SA SA SA DET. DET. DET. DET. DET. Uh is there anything else you wanna add? No wanna change? I?m tellin? you specifically what I saw. That?s everything I saw, nothin? more, nothin? less. Ok. And one other thing, put all rights reserved above (Inaudible) All rights reserved I?m gonna step out forjust a minute. Ah, it?s (Inaudible) 50. I, I know obviously if you need to (Inaudible) if you need to talk, stop it just so you?re aware that it?s still recording, ok? You did good. You did. I know it was frustratin?. But really the thing is, it?s gonna be worse if you have to (inaudible, whispering) at you. You just (inaudible, whispering) . Aw you (inaudible, whispering) actually sign it (inaudible)? (Inaudible) Alright, but that signature is actual cursive. That?s your cursive? Uh huh. Aw it is. I?m trippin?. Sorry. You say the name in cursive? And put 35 (Inaudible, whispering) (Inaudible, whisperingthey don?t get confused, cause you You don?t have no rights as None. They fittin? to know that they can?t just do anything (inaudible) to this, you know what I?m sayin?? They all know they got a nation to deal with behind it. When they talk to they boss, (inaudible). But it?s the truth. It is. Ain?t afraid of the truth. You don?t give them, let?s not give them nothin? else. You did good, though. Ok, we wanna go over a little bit more about the, the shots. Where on the body was Mr. Brown shot? lwasn?t there. I only could see through my window but I know it was a maximum of ten shots. I know he had got shot once, cause I seen blood on his shirt and then he, I seen him shoot him in his head and fire off four more rounds into Upper body? his upper body. Um hum. Was that in the front? In the He, he was standin? in the over him. So I couldn?t honestly tell you. He was standin? over him. Um hum. Ok. Is there anything else you?d like to change? No, it?s nothin? I would like to change ?cause I?m tellin? you exactly what I saw. 36 SA SA SA SA SA Ok. Well, I'm gonna tell you that we have multiple witnesses that have not said anything close to what you just told us. You don?t have to worry about that. Their perspective could be different. They coulda been at a different window. They could have been. (Inaudible) You don?t have to worry about that. The reason why I?m telling you is we?ve talked to the prosecutor and if you?re lying to (Inaudible) we believe you are then you?re gonna be prosecuted for lying to an FBI agent. Is there something that you would like to I?m tellin? you. now? If you tellin? the truth First of all, this is, she?s just doin? a preference to make sure the statement?s accurate. We know it is. You're tellin? the truth. Is that Excuse, excuse say me, can I, can I Just, I told y?all this story, it?s, this exactly what I told y?all. It?s exactly what I told y?all. As you as my attorney. That's exactly what he told me. This is exactly what I told her. 37 SA VIRON: Exactly what he been tellin? me. Ok. And that?s what I been (Inaudible) that?s what I told his family. And I?m getting? tired of And I, and I?m gonna say this he would not, he didn?t wanna come in, but he wanted to do the right thing so this is his story has he sawwould not bring anybody in. That?s why I talked to him first to make sure, and I let him talk and I?m, to make sure of what he was sayin?. And, so if this an accurate So, so, so, so you tellin? they have to do I, um, I gotta question though, so you tellin' me that didn?t nobody see this young man with his hands up in the air pleadin? for his life? That isn't, it's not the point. It's yours, it?s what you talkin? about once you?re sayin?, they have to do that with, they?re doin? an investigation. So what you?re (Inaudible) of what everybody what she sayin? right now too. As far as somebody it?s an investigation, ok? of your concern. Exactly. So No, it?s none of your concern. Don?t let it agitate you. 38 SA SA SA SA SA Don?t Don?t let it agitate you. I?m tellin? you that That's why I?m tellin' you I told y?all everything I, everything I told you I know. Ok, well what if the evidence that we have doesn?t support what just told me? If any of his original rights Look me in my eyes. I?m tellin? you exactly everything that I saw. Look deep into my soul. Ok, look in my eyes. I?m tellin? (Inaudible) the Ok, support what you?re tellin? me right now. (Multiple people talking at one time inaudible) SA 0k, 0k, You did your part for Mike, did my part for my Ok. He wasn?t my best friend, he was my (Inaudible) We not tryin? to be adversaries. We just came in to tell what he saw, Ul Um hum 39 that?s all, you know So, so I?m (inaudible) don?t We had to pull him in here to do that, you know 'cause he didn?t wanna do it, but you know. He don?t need to be up Right (Inaudible) I need that for my, I need justice for my best friend. Well we need to hear the truth. But I'm not (Inaudible) to That?s right. case. That's right UI. But I?m not gonna And, I?m tellin? you that the evidence that we not support what Can I, can I, can I speak to the guy real quick? Is he in? Is he here? Yes Yeah. Can I speak to him, please? Sure. Thank you. 40 DET. DET. DET. END lfeel like (Inaudible) done, 'cause Ijust said everything, like that?s only what I was supposed to be comin? here was down here to give my statement. Can we stop the tape recorder? You bet. It?s uh, approximately 2:32 p. m. and at the request of, uh, we?re going to stop the recorder. Is that alright with you? Yes. Stop it. you?re 0k. 0k. 41