UNOFFICIAL/UNAUTHENTICATED TRANSCRIPT 1 [The R.M.C. 803 session was called to order at 0907, 2 9 February 2015.] 3 4 5 6 MJ [COL POHL]: The commission is called to order. Government, who is here representing the United States this morning? STC [MR. DRISCOLL]: Good morning, Your Honor. Kevin 7 Driscoll and Fernando Campoamor of the Special Review Team for 8 the United States. 9 10 MJ [COL POHL]: Thank you. Mr. Nevin? 11 LDC [MR. NEVIN]: 12 MJ [COL POHL]: 13 LDC [MS. BORMANN]: Major Poteet and Mr. Sowards. Ms. Bormann? Major Swensen, Captain Schwartz and 14 later on today, if we get further on, there will be an 15 additional lawyer who will just be assisting me. 16 MJ [COL POHL]: Okay. And I'm going to skip you, 17 Mr. Harrington, because we have some changes. 18 back to you. 19 20 21 I will come Mr. Connell? LDC [MR. CONNELL]: Lieutenant Colonel Thomas and I are here, Your Honor. 22 MJ [COL POHL]: 23 LDC [MR. RUIZ]: Mr. Ruiz? Lieutenant Colonel Gleason, Colonel UNOFFICIAL/UNAUTHENTICATED TRANSCRIPT 8247 UNOFFICIAL/UNAUTHENTICATED TRANSCRIPT 1 2 3 4 Williams and myself, Walter Ruiz. MJ [COL POHL]: Mr. Harrington, who is here for Mr. Binalshibh? LDC [MR. HARRINGTON]: Judge, in addition to me is 5 Lieutenant Commander Bogucki, Major Alaina Wichner and Major 6 Mark Balfantz. 7 Sorry, Judge, and Commander Tri Nhan. MJ [COL POHL]: Commander Bogucki, my understanding you 8 have a request before the commission to withdraw; is that 9 correct? 10 DDC [LCDR BOGUCKI]: Yes, Your Honor. Pursuant to 11 Appellate Exhibit 346(RBS) I respectfully request to be 12 excused from further participation in the commission. 13 14 MJ [COL POHL]: It is the commission's understanding you are retiring from active duty; is that correct? 15 DDC [LCDR BOGUCKI]: 16 MJ [COL POHL]: That's correct, sir. Mr. Binalshibh, do you consent to 17 Lieutenant Commander Bogucki withdrawing as one of your 18 counsel in this case? 19 ACC [MR. BINALSHIBH]: Yes, I did. I have some problem to 20 get the translations, complete translations, so I have my 21 interpreter, Mr. Louay Al-Nazer. 22 trust him because he was working at the black site with the 23 CIA and we know him from there. But the problem is I cannot UNOFFICIAL/UNAUTHENTICATED TRANSCRIPT 8248 UNOFFICIAL/UNAUTHENTICATED TRANSCRIPT 1 MJ [COL POHL]: Mr. Binalshibh, we will get to that in 2 just a second. 3 we will come back to that in a minute. 4 I will go over your attorney rights, and then Major Wichner, is that the right pronunciation? 5 ADDC [MAJ WICHNER]: 6 MJ [COL POHL]: 7 8 9 Wichner. Wichner. Please put your detailing qualifications on the record. ADDC [MAJ WICHNER]: Yes, Your Honor. Major Alaina 10 Wichner. 11 the Chief Defense Counsel. 12 Article 27(b) Uniform Code of Military Justice and Rules for 13 Military Commission 502 and 503. 14 under Uniform Code of Military Justice under Article 42(a). 15 have not acted in any way that might tend to disqualify me in 16 this proceeding. 17 Appellate Exhibit 004H. 18 MJ [COL POHL]: I have been detailed to this military commission by I am qualified and certified under I have previously been sworn My detail letter is marked Thank you. Mr. Binalshibh, do you also 19 consent to Major Wichner as being one of your defense counsel 20 in this case? 21 ACC [MR. BINALSHIBH]: 22 MJ [COL POHL]: 23 I Yes. Thank you. Now, as far as the issue with the interpreter, Mr. Harrington, is there something you want UNOFFICIAL/UNAUTHENTICATED TRANSCRIPT 8249 UNOFFICIAL/UNAUTHENTICATED TRANSCRIPT 1 me to address with that or do you wish to address it inside 2 the defense team and then come back to me later? 3 LDC [MR. HARRINGTON]: Judge, this is a new development 4 and we would ask the court if we could have five minutes among 5 the defense counsel if we could. 6 LDC [MS. BORMANN]: Judge, we have exactly the same issue. 7 My client relayed to me this morning that there is somebody in 8 this courtroom who was participating in his illegal torture. 9 10 MJ [COL POHL]: Okay. And you first became aware of this when we convened today? 11 LDC [MS. BORMANN]: 12 LDC [MR. NEVIN]: 13 LDC [MR. CONNELL]: 14 MJ [COL POHL]: Just three minutes ago. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Mr. Connell, I got three yeses, I don't 15 really need to have any more. 16 in recess for 15 minutes. 17 commission is in recess. 18 [The R.M.C. 803 session recessed at 0911, 9 February 2015.] 19 [The R.M.C. 803 session was called to order at 0933, 20 9 February 2015.] 21 MJ [COL POHL]: Okay. The commission will be We will reconvene at 0920. The The commission is called to order. 22 parties are again present that were present when the 23 commission recessed. UNOFFICIAL/UNAUTHENTICATED TRANSCRIPT 8250 All UNOFFICIAL/UNAUTHENTICATED TRANSCRIPT 1 2 Commander Bogucki, are you going to want to continue to represent him, Mr. Binalshibh, for this week of sessions? 3 DDC [LCDR BOGUCKI]: 4 MJ [COL POHL]: 5 Not present in the court, Your Honor. Okay. You are free to leave if you wish to. 6 DDC [LCDR BOGUCKI]: 7 MJ [COL POHL]: Thank you. With regards to that issue that 8 necessitated the recess, do we need to discuss it further? 9 Mr. Connell? 10 11 12 13 14 LDC [MR. CONNELL]: Sir, I believe that the regular prosecution should be here ---MJ [COL POHL]: I got that piece. No, that's not my question. LDC [MR. CONNELL]: I believe it requires further 15 discussion and the government may have a position as to 16 whether that occurs in closed or open court. 17 MJ [COL POHL]: Okay. Let's do this. I agree, it has to 18 be the regular prosecution team. 19 Special Review Team. 20 like the regular prosecutors to come here. 21 said, Mr. Connell, you think it would be helpful if you 22 discussed it with them before we went on the record? 23 I'm going to excuse the However the connection is made, I would LDC [MR. CONNELL]: From what you I don't know if they are watching, I UNOFFICIAL/UNAUTHENTICATED TRANSCRIPT 8251 UNOFFICIAL/UNAUTHENTICATED TRANSCRIPT 1 2 don't know what they know. MJ [COL POHL]: Neither do I. 3 know. Let's do this. 4 0925. We will reconvene at 1030. 5 recess. 6 7 I don't know what they I don't know where they are. It is now The commission is in The commission is not in recess. STC [MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ]: Just one quick point, 8 Your Honor, minor, but I wanted the record to reflect that 9 independent counsel for Mr. Binalshibh has been here all 10 morning, Lieutenant Colonel Pitvorec. 11 was placed on the record. 12 13 14 15 16 MJ [COL POHL]: I don't believe that I don't think it was either, but I appreciate that. The commission will be in recess. [The R.M.C. 803 session recessed at 0933, 9 February 2015.] [END OF PAGE] 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 UNOFFICIAL/UNAUTHENTICATED TRANSCRIPT 8252