1 2 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE MIDDLE DISTRICT OF TENNESSEE NASHVILLE DIVISION 3 ____________________________________________________________ 4 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 1 5 vs. 6 ) ) ) ) ) ) ) CASE NO. 3:10-00250 7 MATTHEW PAUL DEHART 8 ____________________________________________________________ 9 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 10 11 ____________________________________________________________ 12 BEFORE: THE HONORABLE ALETA A. TRAUGER 13 DATE: MAY 22, 2012 14 TIME: 10:00 A.M. 15 ____________________________________________________________ 16 APPEARANCES: 17 FOR THE GOVERNMENT: CARRIE DAUGHTREY LYNNE INGRAM U.S. Attorney's Office Nashville, Tennessee FOR THE DEFENDANT: MARK SCRUGGS Nashville, Tennessee 18 19 20 21 ____________________________________________________________ 22 REPORTED BY: 23 24 25 Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 BEVERLY E. "BECKY" COLE, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER A-837 U.S. COURTHOUSE NASHVILLE, TN 37203 (615) 726-4893 BECKY_COLE@TNMD.USCOURTS.GOV Filed 06/06/12 Page 1 of 119 PageID #: 448 2 INDEX 1 2 3 PAUL JOSEPH DEHART: 4 Direct Examination by Mr. Scruggs 5 Cross-Examination by Ms. Ingram 14 6 Redirect Examination by Mr. Scruggs 33 4 7 8 MATTHEW DEHART: 9 Direct Examination by Mr. Scruggs 38 Cross-Examination by Ms. Ingram 49 10 11 12 BRETT KNISS: 13 Direct Examination by Ms. Ingram 59 14 Cross-Examination by Mr. Scruggs 66 15 Redirect Examination by Ms. Ingram 71 16 17 JEAN 18 Direct Examination by Ms. Ingram 74 19 Cross-Examination by Mr. Scruggs 78 20 Redirect Examination by Ms. Ingram 82 21 EXHIBITS 22 23 Defendant's Exhibit 1 8 24 Defendant's Exhibit 2 13 25 Defendant's Exhibit 3 49 Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 2 of 119 PageID #: 449 3 1 THE COURT: 2 States vs. Matthew Paul DeHart. 3 and Lynne Ingram for the government; Mark Scruggs for the 4 defendant. We're here on United We have Carrie Daughtrey The defendant is in the courtroom. The initial issue this morning I think is detention, 5 6 Good morning. and I would like to take that up first. Mr. Scruggs, I already reviewed the detention order 7 8 once, but that was sometime ago. 9 2010. It was back in December of I have reviewed that transcript, the transcript out of 10 11 Maine for the other hearing that was held back in August of 12 2010. 13 14 Would you like me to consider all of that material plus anything additional you wish to present today? 15 MR. SCRUGGS: 16 THE COURT: 17 18 19 20 Yes, ma'am. Okay. Do you have additional witnesses? MR. SCRUGGS: Yes, I would like to call Paul DeHart, who's Matthew's father, as well as Matthew briefly. THE COURT: I have already heard from him once, 21 so I hope we have new information. 22 MR. SCRUGGS: I would like to put him on for the 23 purpose of basically summarizing where we are at this point 24 and the fact that he's more than willing to provide whatever 25 assistance he can to the Court in compliance with any Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 3 of 119 PageID #: 450 conditions of release, absolutely' THE COURT: All right. THE CLERK: Raise your right hand. (WITNESS ms swam" PAUL JOSEPH DEHART, having first been duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows: DIRECT EXAMINLTIW BY SCRUGGS: state your name, please, sir' Paul Joseph DeHart' And where do you live? Indiana' what your address? How long have you lived there? we have lived at --since September of 2011' And how long have you lived in that area? we have lived in the area for seven years' And you are married' Is that correct? Yes' Your wife's name is? Leann Del-[art And Matthew is your son' Is that correctYes' Case 3:1orcr700250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 4 of 119 PagelD 451 5 1 Q Now, I wasn't here the first time you testified, don't 2 really want to go over that in a lot of detail again. 3 A Sure, sure. 4 Q The first thing I wanted to address was what has 5 happened since the last time you testified -- 6 A Okay. 7 Q -- which has been I guess now about 18 months? 8 A December 2010, yes. 9 Q Almost 18 months then, okay. Now, as far as -- number 10 one, and this may be repetitive as far as the last time you 11 were here -- 12 A Sure. 13 Q -- but are you and your wife still in a position to 14 provide a residence for your son and assure the Court that 15 no matter what those conditions are, they will be complied 16 with? 17 A 18 that Matt was arrested in. 19 money for legal expenses, so we have another residence. 20 Yes, we are. We have since moved from the residence It's a two bedroom. I have sold that, used that It's closer to my work. 21 less than a mile, and so the venue has changed. 22 willing to do what are whatever is required. 23 Matthew can come to work with me. It's And we're I work at the 24 church, and we have a kind of a work agreement we can set up 25 for him to do volunteer work. Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 There's always work to do Filed 06/06/12 Page 5 of 119 PageID #: 452 there' Leann works for a seminary. She has programs that Matt can take via correspondence and be working on something positive while he's doing that' He can see his and things that he's not getting right now, and receive all the treatment' He's currently not being treated for his ADHD, which he would be able to be treated if he was released' He has requested treatment for ADI-ID but is not allowed to have that according to the jail' So if I understand you correctly then, you and/or your wife will be able to pretty much supervise him or monitor him 24/ 7? A Yes, if we had to be gone for some reason, Leann's mother, who lives in Fort Branch, about 35 miles away, would be willing to come down and stay with him if he has to remain in the home I believe there are also some people from the community that have come all the way here to Nashville today to show their support' Is that correct? A Yes, sir, we brought two people from our church, one of our elders, and -, who's a friend of Leann's and runs the ladies Bible class just to say the congregation there is willing to support whatever Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 6 of 119 PagelD 453 7 1 requirements the Court has. 2 Q 3 brought as well. 4 A 5 church saying they would support us whatever needed to be 6 done. Also you have some letters that some other folks Is that correct? Yeah, some letters of reference from the elders in the 7 MR. SCRUGGS: 8 letters to the witness? THE COURT: 9 10 Your Honor, if I could hand these Okay. Has the government seen them, Mr. Scruggs? 11 MR. SCRUGGS: 12 THE COURT: 13 MR. SCRUGGS: 14 THE COURT: 15 THE WITNESS: Pardon? Has the government seen the letters? I have just given them a copy. Okay. Thank you. 16 BY MR. SCRUGGS: 17 Q Now, are those letters from people in the community -- 18 A Yes. 19 Q -- who are there to support you and support Matthew 20 and to make sure that everything the judge would order in 21 terms of the conditions of his release would be complied 22 with. 23 A 24 25 Is that correct? Yes, yes. MR. SCRUGGS: I would like to submit those letters then as an exhibit to his testimony, if I could? Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 7 of 119 PageID #: 454 8 THE COURT: 1 2 All right. Any objection to Exhibit 1? 3 MS. INGRAM: 4 THE COURT: 5 (Defendant's Exhibit 1 was received into 6 All right. May I see them? evidence.) 7 (Pause.) 8 THE COURT: 9 No objection. How big is your church? How many parishioners do you have? THE WITNESS: 10 On average, we have about 110 on 11 Sunday morning attendance. 12 BY MR. SCRUGGS: 13 Q 14 even explored some correspondence courses for him as well? 15 A 16 predominantly online and correspondence seminary, so there 17 are programs Matt could be enrolled in and could be working 18 on in his time, so he wouldn't just be sitting around with 19 nothing to do. 20 his time. 21 Q 22 his presence, are you in a position to do that? 23 A 24 mother-in-law is willing to put up the equity in her home in 25 Fort Branch. Now, you had also mentioned me yesterday that you had Yes, Leann works at Trinity Seminary. It's a He would have something positive to occupy As far as putting up any collateral in order to secure We have the title to both of our vehicles, and my And we could -- if we had to, could scrape Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 8 of 119 PageID #: 455 9 1 together some cash if we needed to come up with a cash bond. 2 Q 3 own -- 4 A Yes. 5 Q -- even a relative owns -- 6 A Yes. 7 Q -- to make sure his presence is secured. 8 correct? 9 A Yes, sir. 10 Q Let's talk about what has happened to Matt in the past 11 18 months in term of his health, mental condition and so 12 forth. 13 A 14 because of depression, and he was seeing a psychologist and 15 psychiatrist. 16 So basically you are willing to put up everything you Is that You touched upon that just a second ago. Well, Matt was discharged from the Air National Guard He's been treated for attention deficit hyperactivity 17 disorder since seventh grade. 18 was taking his medication. 19 apprehended at the border, they abruptly ceased his 20 medication for everything. 21 22 When he was in up Canada, he When he came down and was And he was given, from what Matt described, as Thorazine, with I basically scrambled his thinking. 23 And so he -- when I talked to him from the court 24 during his initial detention hearing before Judge Kravchuck, 25 he collapsed in court, and the Court was gracious enough to Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 9 of 119 PageID #: 456 10 1 allow his federal defender to call me and let me talk to 2 him. He was basically babbling on the phone. 3 It was 4 apparent to me that he had had some -- he had been drugged 5 in some way or another. We received medical reports after Matt was in Canada 6 7 that -- you know, when he got back from HIPAA. 8 signed a HIPAA request that Matt had been taken to a medical 9 center in Maine and was diagnosed with psychotic break, a 10 We had drug-induced psychotic break on the 6th of August. Matt said he was denied food, denied water and was 11 12 administered Thorazine. He said it was Thorazine because he 13 read the package that he was administered and described the 14 pill, which I looked up online, and it seemed to be that's 15 what it was, but he was clearly not -- when I spoke with him 16 on the phone he was not coherent. 17 kinds of things. 18 Q Let me move up if I could since last hearing though -- 19 A Sure, all right. 20 Q -- in terms of his treatment at the place where he's 21 housed now, Bowling Green, Warren County Detention Center. 22 A 23 but basically they are in 23 hour lockdown. 24 allowed to go out once a day a couple of times a week he 25 gets outside. He was babbling about all He's currently in a situation where he has sunlight, Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 They are Filed 06/06/12 Page 10 of 119 PageID #: 457 11 So about maybe two or three times a week, he's allowed 1 2 to get out in sunlight. 3 that's confined. Otherwise, he's in an environment He's treated currently for depression with Wellbutrin, 4 5 but he doesn't see a counselor, and he's not being treated 6 for his ADHD, which is the harder thing in an environment 7 like that because of the constant noise and lights, and all 8 that, so it's difficult without any ADHD medication, which 9 he has requested, but has been denied that. 10 Q Okay. So basically you are in a position to ensure 11 that all of the conditions of any possible release would be 12 met? 13 A Yes. 14 Q You can tend to his health issues, medical issues. 15 You'll also possibly secure employment if he comes to work 16 with you? 17 A He will volunteer at church. 18 Q Correspondence courses as well? 19 A Yes. 20 Q And assure the Court that -- 21 A Yes. 22 Q -- every condition of release would be complied with. 23 Is that right? 24 A Yes, yes. 25 Q Now, I have asked you to put together just sort of a Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 11 of 119 PageID #: 458 12 1 little summary of an argument for bond, some of the points 2 and so forth. 3 at the first or the last hearing -- 4 A Sure. 5 Q -- on the bond, whichever. 6 second one, I guess. 7 A Yes. 8 Q But you put together those points. 9 ahead, and I have given a copy to the government here, again Again, some of this may have been addressed That may have been the I'm going to go 10 some of this may overlap, but I would like for you to -- I 11 would like to submit that to the Court. 12 want to read through it. 13 I don't know if you You can probably read it as well as he could recite 14 it, so I would like to submit that to the Court in terms of 15 the argument, points, in terms of addressing the issues 16 about Mexico and the embassy and the Canada thing as well? 17 THE COURT: 18 MR. SCRUGGS: 19 THE COURT: 20 MR. SCRUGGS: What, four pages? 21 THE WITNESS: Maybe. 22 MS. INGRAM: 23 24 25 This is a written document? It's a written document, yes. How long is this written document? Yeah, it's four pages. I object to that, Your Honor, for several reasons. First of all, as Mr. Scruggs just pointed out, a lot of this is overlapping, a lot of this is repetitive. Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 The Filed 06/06/12 Page 12 of 119 PageID #: 459 13 1 witness is here for a second time testifying to similar 2 things from the past. Your Honor has the transcript, and he's here able to 3 4 testify. This information is unnecessary for Your Honor to 5 review the detention hearing. MR. SCRUGGS: 6 Some of these things, Judge, I 7 believe go beyond what was discussed at the detention 8 hearing, is what I'm told. 9 BY MR. SCRUGGS: 10 Q Is that correct? 11 A Yes, it was. 12 some of these things at the detention hearing. We didn't get a chance to talk about 13 THE COURT: I'll receive it. 14 MR. SCRUGGS: 15 THE COURT: Okay. Exhibit 2 will be the defendant's 16 father's written argument for bond. 17 MR. SCRUGGS: 18 THE COURT: 19 cross-examine on any of this. MR. SCRUGGS: 21 THE COURT: 23 24 25 Right. And the government obviously can 20 22 Overruled. Right. So let's have Exhibit 2 submitted, please. MR. SCRUGGS: Okay. Go ahead and submit that the court officer there, and I will pass the witness. (Defendant's Exhibit 2 was received into Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 13 of 119 PageID #: 460 14 1 evidence.) THE COURT: 2 3 Okay. Let me just take a couple of minutes to scan this before we -- now, this has got -- 4 THE WITNESS: 5 THE COURT: That's. -- pencil markings on it. 6 think you want me to have this copy. 7 copy for the Court? 8 9 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. That was my talking MR. SCRUGGS: My only copy then would be the government's. MS. INGRAM: 12 13 Do you have a clean copy. 10 11 I don't I was just handed this as well, so I haven't had a chance to go through this fully. THE COURT: 14 Let's make a copy of it. I'll take a 15 short recess and read it, and we'll come back in, in ten 16 minutes or so. 17 MR. SCRUGGS: 18 (Break.) 19 THE COURT: 20 MS. INGRAM: 21 All right. Cross? May have just one more moment, Your Honor? 22 THE COURT: 23 (Pause.) Yes. CROSS-EXAMINATION 24 25 Thank you. BY MS. INGRAM: Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 14 of 119 PageID #: 461 15 1 Q Mr. DeHart, I'm going to go through some questions, 2 first off, through this information that you have provided 3 to the Court. Did you type this up? 4 5 A Yes. 6 Q The medical information that you have been testifying 7 about, where does that information come from? 8 A Specifically the his treatment and? 9 Q His treatment within the, yes, facility. 10 A He filled out a HIPAA request, and we got it from 11 Eastern Maine Medical Center. 12 the file, and Mr. Scruggs has that information as well. 13 Q You have those records here with you today? 14 A Yes, we do. MS. INGRAM: 15 16 I have that information in Your Honor, at some point I would ask to be allowed to review those, please? 17 THE COURT: Mr. Scruggs, have you got them? 18 MR. SCRUGGS: 19 THE COURT: I have got them. Okay. 20 BY MS. INGRAM: 21 Q 22 incarceration? 23 A Yes, he was. 24 Q Wasn't there a period of time when he had stopped 25 taking his medication that you and your wife were excited Was the defendant taking medication prior to his Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 15 of 119 PageID #: 462 16 1 about him being able to be off his medication? 2 A 3 detention that he -- that he was getting by okay without it 4 because we did not know what it would be like for him to be 5 in a jail setting without any ADHD medication. We had mentioned the fact that when he was in And I think the last time I testified in December of 6 7 2010, I said that we were proud of the fact that he was 8 handle things okay, that -- he hadn't -- from my 9 perspective, that he hadn't broken down and had to be put in 10 isolation, so that was my perspective. 11 Q 12 custody? 13 A 14 District of Tennessee. 15 Q Do you have any sort of medical training? 16 A No, I do not, other than as a parent of a special 17 needs child for the time that he lived with us. 18 Q And that training is what? 19 A Having to take him to psychologists and psychiatrists 20 and doctors and school officials and dealing with ADHD and 21 depression and those kinds of things. 22 Q 23 you don't have specialized training in the medical field? 24 A No, I do not. 25 Q Let's talk about the first page of this where you That was your assessment after several months in Yes, as he was being transported, yes, to the Middle So while you refer to him as a special needs child, Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 16 of 119 PageID #: 463 17 1 reference factors bearing on flight risk. It says "Matt traveled to Mexico for several days 2 3 after execution of the search warrant." He had never been 4 to Mexico before then, right? 5 A No, he had never been. 6 Q And he had no contacts there, right? 7 A We knew people in Mexico. 8 on at least three occasions with mission work in our church, 9 and Leann and I had been on a mission trip to Monterrey, I have traveled to the Baja 10 Mexico when we were in college. 11 Q 12 contacts in Mexico. 13 A 14 he did not have contact in Mexico. 15 Q 16 defendant to come back after several days, right? 17 A Yes, we were. 18 Q He had an invalid expired passport, is that right, 19 expired passport while he was down there? 20 A 21 didn't need a passport to enter at that time to Mexico. 22 Q So I presume you found this out at the last hearing? 23 A I don't recall if it came up at the last hearing. 24 Q You don't remember being asked if he was able to 25 travel at the time without a passport by Mr. Everitt? I understand that, sir, but the defendant had no No, I'm sorry if I misunderstood your question. No, And you and your wife were able to convince the He had carried his expired passport with him. Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 He Filed 06/06/12 Page 17 of 119 PageID #: 464 18 1 A I'm sorry, I don't recall that. I don't have a 2 transcript. 3 Q 4 the detention hearing previously? 5 A 6 I don't remember. 7 Q 8 that your son wanted to be able to have a skill if the 9 investigation in the United States didn't work out. Have you had a chance to review the transcript from I may have read it, but I haven't read it recently, so The trip to Canada, you mention in this in your notes Is that 10 right? 11 A Yes. 12 Q So y'all were all very well aware that an 13 investigation was going on while the defendant was over in 14 Canada? 15 A Yes, yes. 16 Q When the defendant was asked about his residence, you 17 put in your notes that Matt could not remember his address, 18 but that's not true because he lied about his address, isn't 19 that right? 20 A I -- I'm not aware that he lied about his address. 21 Q Well, you know that he mentioned that he was living in 22 a dormitory on campus, right; that's what he had stated to 23 law enforcement? 24 A 25 copy of the report from the FBI agents who interrogated Matt I have seen -- just recently Mr. Scruggs gave me a Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 18 of 119 PageID #: 465 19 1 on the way -- at the border and on the way to Penobscot 2 County Jail. 3 Q 4 lived in a dormitory on campus? 5 A 6 I have stated before, I think Matt -- we have had a medical 7 evaluation, and Matt had a psychotic break later on that 8 day. I do not know what he told them at that point. 9 Q Because you weren't there? 10 A Because I wasn't there. 11 Q And the information you are receiving is from your 12 son, the defendant, right? 13 A Yeah, when we have been able to talk to him, yes. 14 Q Have you had a chance to look at the report and the 15 transcript from the detention hearing in Maine? 16 A I have read that before, yes. 17 Q And so you saw the discussion about the defendant 18 telling Pretrial Services that he lived in a college 19 dormitory; do you remember that part? 20 A No, I don't. 21 Q Okay. 22 A He lived right off of campus. 23 Q You would agree that he was not living in the college 24 dormitory, wouldn't you? 25 A Are you now aware that the defendant told them that he I'm aware of that's their summary of what he said. As I'm sorry. No, he wasn't living in a college dormitory. Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 19 of 119 PageID #: 466 20 1 Q And this drugged and tortured information, who was 2 that provided to you by? 3 A Matthew. 4 Q And do you know anything about there being some sort 5 of substance in the corner of the room that Matthew went and 6 touched apparently and got it in his eye, do you know 7 anything about that? 8 A No. 9 Q He didn't tell you what happened, how that happened? 10 A Unfortunately, as you know, we're not able to 11 communicate with Matt since his arrest other than on the 12 phone that has been monitored, so we don't have those 13 detailed level conversations. 14 Q 15 like that's an accurate statement? 16 A Yes. 17 Q But you do not know all the details apparently, right? 18 A No, I do not. 19 Q You mention in here that you don't think that Matt has 20 resources to flee, but he does have access to his 21 grandmother that you mentioned, right, in Fort Branch? 22 A Right. 23 Q And that is the same grandmother that gave him money 24 to go to Mexico the first time, right? 25 A He shared with you enough information that you feel Yes. Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 20 of 119 PageID #: 467 21 1 Q And I presume she's still in the same financial 2 situation, isn't she? 3 A 4 retain an attorney the first time, and so she has less 5 resources than she had before. 6 Q She still has resourced to assist if she wanted to? 7 A She has some resources, yes. She gave a substantial amount of money for us to (Pause.) 8 MS. INGRAM: 9 Okay. Your Honor, I'm sorry, I'm 10 just going through this and making sure I'm not missing 11 anything. THE COURT: 12 That's fine. 13 BY MS. INGRAM: 14 Q 15 mentioned -- 16 A Yes. 17 Q -- all of this is coming from your son, right? 18 A Yes, yes. 19 Q Have you actually been in there where he's being 20 housed? 21 A We're not allowed in there as family members, no. 22 Q So you haven't seen these conditions that he's 23 referring to? 24 A 25 pictures of the hallways and things like that, that's all I The unhealthy detention conditions that you Other than on the jail picture that they show general Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 21 of 119 PageID #: 468 22 1 have seen. 2 Q 3 pictures? 4 A 5 specific -- 6 Q Any of this information? 7 A The fact that he hasn't had any dental care or? 8 Q That he hasn't had what? 9 A Dental care in two years. 10 Q You can gather that from pictures? 11 A No, I'm not saying that at all, no. 12 Q Okay. 13 ties with the defendant last time, right, and so I presume 14 that's why you mention that in here? 15 the defendant's community ties now, is that why you put that 16 in here? 17 A 18 specifically because of that came up in the last hearing. 19 Q Why did you put his community ties in here? 20 A I think it's important if you're showing that someone 21 is tied to a community that it's not just him by himself, 22 there's other people around him that would ensure his 23 compliance with not leaving the area and attending all the 24 court-required appointments. 25 Q Are you able to gather this information from jail That he's only allowed out once a day or -- what I'm sorry. The Court had a concern about the community No, I just mentioned that. You were going through I don't remember if it was So the ties of the community would be you and your Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 22 of 119 PageID #: 469 23 1 wife, right? 2 A Correct. 3 Q The grandmother from Fort Branch that we have already 4 discussed? 5 A Correct. 6 Q An aunt and uncle? 7 A Yes. 8 Q Another uncle? 9 individuals had with Matt over the past several years? How much contact have these 10 A The aunt and uncle, Matt was -- Matt saw Michael 11 almost weekly. 12 dinner with us on Sundays. He came to church with us, so he would eat The uncle in Kokomo recently retired from the El Paso 13 14 Fire Department and hasn't really been in the area that 15 long. 16 Q So you would say he's not very close to the defendant? 17 A That particular uncle, no, just his family. 18 connected to the church though and has been a member there 19 since we started in 2005. 20 Q 21 that you gave the Court? 22 A Yes, yes. 23 Q Who prepared these letters? 24 A I did. 25 Q You typed them yourself? Let's talk about that. Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 He is That would be the two letters Filed 06/06/12 Page 23 of 119 PageID #: 470 24 1 A Yes, I did. 2 Q Then you went around to the congregation and said 3 please sign this; is that how it worked? 4 A 5 it, and I gave it to one of the leaders of our ladies Bible 6 class. 7 Q 8 church know what charges the defendant is facing? 9 A Yes, they do. 10 Q And they know that he -- do they know how much time 11 he's facing? 12 A I don't know if they know that. 13 Q Do they know the specific details about this case? 14 A I don't think they know that many details. 15 Q Your wife at the last hearing didn't think your son 16 had done anything wrong and this would all just go away; do 17 you think the church members feel that way as well? 18 A I don't know how much all the church members know. 19 Q You mention on here in the community ties that he 20 served in the Indian Air National Guard? 21 A Yes. 22 Q Does he still communicate with those people, do work 23 for them, volunteer there? 24 A No, he was discharged. 25 Q He was discharged because of his mental health I gave it to our elders and asked if they would sign Do these elders and the other individuals in your Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 24 of 119 PageID #: 471 25 1 condition, right? 2 A Because of depression, yes. 3 Q You mentioned some conclusions that you are making 4 about continuing pattern of violations of due process 5 rights, do you have any legal training? 6 A 7 legal expert in any shape or form. 8 Q 9 Are you aware that the discovery process began a very long No, these were just my thoughts. Obviously, I'm not a The law enforcement is dragging heels on discovery? 10 time ago and that discovery has been an ongoing process? 11 A Yes, I am. 12 Q And are you familiar with the process that goes on 13 behind closed doors when the United States is conducting an 14 investigation before they bring charges? 15 A Obviously, I'm not. 16 Q So when you make a statement like they are dragging 17 their heels on discovery, you don't know that's a true 18 statement, do you? 19 A 20 citizen. 21 Q 22 of Tennessee for the purpose of interrogation"? 23 A Yes. 24 Q Do you have anything to support that? 25 your own opinion, right? That's my perspective from a parent, that's all, a It just seems like a long time. "The delays in transportation to the Middle District Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 That's just Filed 06/06/12 Page 25 of 119 PageID #: 472 26 1 A It seemed to be a very long period of time to come 2 down here. 3 not on the affidavit signed by Mr. Thompson, I believe it 4 was, and that he was taken to Portland, Maine, and further 5 interrogated there, which was not reflected on that. Matt mentioned a further interrogation that was That's obviously something I personally can't verify, 6 7 but that's what Matt said. 8 Q 9 the delay was caused to get here to the Middle District of And you have no reason to know that's the reason that 10 Tennessee do you, other than Matt telling you that? 11 A 12 something other than this case is, to me, a logical 13 conclusion. 14 Q 15 transportation. 16 reason that that happened? 17 A Oh, no, I'm sorry. 18 Q Let's talk about your work schedule. 19 work? 20 A I work Sunday through Thursday. 21 Q Is that the same schedule you had in December of 2010? 22 A Yes. 23 Q Is that full time? 24 A Yes. 25 Q Are you gone most of the day on those days? Well, the fact that he was interrogated about I'm specifically asking about the delay in You have no evidence to show that's the Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 No, I do not. How often do you Filed 06/06/12 Page 26 of 119 PageID #: 473 27 1 A I'm at the facility, yes, from nine to two. 2 Q And what are your wife's hours? 3 A She works from eight until five. 4 Q Monday through Friday? 5 A Monday through Friday. 6 Q Does anyone else live in your home? 7 A No. 8 Q So when you say you are able to provide 24/7 constant 9 control over your son, really there would be no one at home 10 while you and your wife were at work during those days for a 11 majority of those days, correct? 12 A 13 was restricted to home, I would have to work something out 14 that I could work from home somehow. If he was allowed to come to work -- correct, if he THE COURT: 15 16 She usually goes in at seven. You are proposing that he come to work with you and do volunteer work? THE WITNESS: 17 That would be my suggestion, yes, 18 ma'am. 19 BY MS. INGRAM: 20 Q Wasn't he a volunteer at the church in the past? 21 A He has volunteered, yes. 22 Q Wasn't that with youth groups? 23 A Yes. 24 Q How often was he doing that? 25 A A couple of times. Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 27 of 119 PageID #: 474 28 1 Q So would he be permitted if the Court allowed it to be 2 involved with these youth groups again? 3 A Considering the situation, no, I would think not. 4 Q And he's not permitted to become employed, you are 5 just offering a place for him to go spend his day, right? 6 A 7 he could have a job, that would be wonderful. 8 Q 9 wish to hire your son? I don't know what his employment options would be. If Are you aware of any potential employers that would 10 A No, I do not know of anybody. 11 Q Are you aware about your son trying to sell 12 information to other countries? 13 A No. 14 Q Have you reviewed the reports that indicate that's 15 what he was, in fact, doing? 16 A I read the reports, yes. 17 Q So you are aware that he was trying to do that 18 according to these reports? 19 A I have become aware of that according to the reports. 20 Q In fact, you have helped him go to embassies, haven't 21 you? 22 A I have taken him to two embassies, yes. 23 Q And you mentioned your contacts in Mexico. 24 contacts in Canada as well, right? 25 A Contacts through the school. Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Y'all have We don't have any Filed 06/06/12 Page 28 of 119 PageID #: 475 29 1 personal contacts, no. 2 MS. INGRAM: 3 If I may have one more moment, Your Honor? 4 THE COURT: 5 (Pause.) Okay. 6 BY MS. INGRAM: 7 Q 8 jury? 9 A Yes, I do in Washington, D.C. 10 Q Back in September 2010? 11 A Yes. 12 Q And do you remember testifying under oath that you 13 believed your son was trying to defect? 14 A 15 I'm not sure I'm allowed to talk about what went on there. 16 It was in a national security section in Washington, D.C. 17 In a secure facility. 18 Do you remember giving testimony before the grand I'm not sure -- I'm not trying to evade your question. Am I able to comment on those things? MS. INGRAM: 19 Your Honor, I'm not asking about 20 national security issues. 21 attempt to defect. THE COURT: 22 I'm asking about his son and his Well, I don't know. The government 23 has been very secretive about everything connected with all 24 of that. 25 reveal something that he testified to in a grand jury. I don't know that I can give him permission to Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 You Filed 06/06/12 Page 29 of 119 PageID #: 476 30 1 could ask him a question -- you could ask him that question 2 without couching it in terms of what he said to the grand 3 jury, I suppose. MS. INGRAM: 4 Yes, Your Honor. 5 BY MS. INGRAM: 6 Q 7 trying to defect? 8 A 9 My understanding was also that he was trying to seek asylum, Do you believe that your son at some point in time was My understanding was Matt was trying to defect, yeah. 10 so that was my thought going in, and so that -- 11 Q 12 successful at that? 13 A I did not know if he would be successful at that. 14 Q You don't recall thinking that he would be successful? 15 A Well, I recall that if it had been successful, I 16 wouldn't see him again. Did you also believe that your son was going to be THE COURT: 17 18 Seek asylum based upon what, our child pornography penalties? THE WITNESS: 19 I don't think, Your Honor, that's 20 what he was mostly afraid of. 21 a group called Forchan online, their connection with a group 22 called Anonymous, which later led to their involvement in 23 Occupy, I think Matt felt the government was watching him 24 before any of this came up. 25 afraid of. Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 I think his involvement with I think that's what he was Filed 06/06/12 Page 30 of 119 PageID #: 477 31 THE COURT: 1 2 Before the child pornography charges came up? 3 THE WITNESS: 4 THE COURT: Yes, ma'am. Okay. 5 BY MS. INGRAM: 6 Q 7 the search warrant, he was aware because of the search 8 warrant that you reviewed that this dealt with a child 9 pornography production investigation, right? So the actual fleeing to Mexico that happened after 10 A That's what -- yes, that's what the warrant that was 11 left with us said, yes, ma'am. 12 Q 13 the investigation regarding child pornography. 14 right? 15 A 16 concerned. 17 Q 18 was executed, the next day is when he fled to Mexico after 19 that specific warrant, isn't that right? 20 A So he was afraid of what that warrant said, which was I think that he was concerned, yes. Yes. MS. INGRAM: 22 provided with the medical records. 24 25 Yes, he was Because after that child pornography search warrant 21 23 Is that Your Honor, we have just been MS. DAUGHTREY: Actually, that's not correct. We had them but didn't know they were relevant. MS. INGRAM: Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 I apologize. We didn't know they Filed 06/06/12 Page 31 of 119 PageID #: 478 32 1 were relevant until this morning, so if I may have a moment 2 to review those records or if Your Honor would like to 3 proceed I will continue looking at them? THE COURT: 4 5 exhibit. Is someone going to introduce them as an exhibit? MS. INGRAM: 6 7 Well, they haven't come in as an I don't know what's in them, Your Honor. 8 THE COURT: Okay. 9 MR. SCRUGGS: All right. I was going to do that, Judge, but 10 I just want to make sure they have got the same thing I have 11 got. THE COURT: 12 13 Okay. Do you know if you object at this point? 14 MS. INGRAM: 15 THE COURT: 16 MS. INGRAM: 17 THE COURT: 18 MS. INGRAM: 19 THE COURT: I don't know, Your Honor. Because you haven't looked at it? Correct. Are you finished with your cross? Yes, ma'am. Okay. Well, why don't we Have 20 redirect? You can be -- you have got another counsel there 21 who was lead counsel on this case, so I would think one of 22 you could be reviewing them while the other -- 23 MS. INGRAM: 24 THE COURT: 25 MS. INGRAM: Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 She still is. -- is listening to testimony. Okay. Thank you, Your Honor. Filed 06/06/12 Page 32 of 119 PageID #: 479 33 THE COURT: 1 All right. Redirect? REDIRECT EXAMINATION 2 3 BY MR. SCRUGGS: 4 Q Just a point of clarification. 5 A Yes. 6 Q January 25, 2010 is when the search warrant was 7 executed at your home in Indiana, correct -- 8 A That's correct, yes. 9 Q -- and after that -- obviously both you and Matt -- I 10 mean, Matt was there that day, correct -- 11 A Yes, he was. 12 Q -- realized that it was pursuant to some type of 13 pornography -- child pornography investigation -- 14 A Yes, that's what the search warrant said. 15 Q -- investigation, correct? 16 A Yes, that's what the search warrant said. 17 Q Did Matt express any concern about that aspect of the, 18 quote, investigation? 19 A He didn't believe it was true. 20 Q What was his concern focused on then? 21 A His concern was that this was part of a government 22 investigation not related to child pornography. 23 24 25 THE COURT: I'm sorry. Someone coughed. Say that again. THE WITNESS: Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 His concern that it was involving Filed 06/06/12 Page 33 of 119 PageID #: 480 34 1 those earlier organizations that he had been associated with 2 and not child pornography. 3 BY MR. SCRUGGS: 4 Q 5 said, Forchan, Anonymous, and so forth -- 6 A Yes. 7 Q -- that was the reason, your understanding is, as far 8 as why he left for Mexico and then came back? 9 A Okay. So as a result of his association with, you He was scared, and he couldn't sleep that night. I 10 think he needed to clear his head, and that's -- that was 11 the reasoning. 12 Q 13 asylum with these embassies. 14 A That's correct. 15 Q Now, that was over two years ago, right? 16 A It is, yes. 17 Q Have you seen a change in his attitude with regard to 18 putting forth a defense in this case and the potential 19 involvement with these national security issues? 20 A 21 involvement of the other groups, yes. And I guess what, a few weeks later he then seeks Yes. 23 He's consistently maintained that there is THE COURT: 22 Is that right? I don't understand what you're saying. 24 MR. SCRUGGS: 25 THE COURT: Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Let me rephrase my question then. All right. Filed 06/06/12 Page 34 of 119 PageID #: 481 35 1 BY MR. SCRUGGS: 2 Q All right. 3 A Yes. 4 Q -- back in August of 2010 and at least been able to 5 see, you know, some of the evidence against him as well as 6 the fact that there has not been any type of prosecution 7 with regard to national security matters -- 8 A Yes. 9 Q -- is he more inclined to stay and put up a defense Since he's been arrested -- all right -- 10 than he was maybe a day or two after the execution -- 11 A Yes, yes. 12 Q -- of the search warrant? 13 A Yes, yes. 14 Q I mean, his concern was the national security issues, 15 correct? 16 A Yes. 17 Q Okay. 18 pornography issues in terms of being able to present a 19 defense? 20 A 21 thought that was bogus. 22 said, so -- 23 24 25 No. Never expressed any concern about the child Initially when we got the search warrant, he THE COURT: At least -- yeah, that's what he He thought that was a ruse, you mean, to get his computers for the national security -THE WITNESS: Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Yes, ma'am, that's what my Filed 06/06/12 Page 35 of 119 PageID #: 482 36 1 understanding was. THE COURT: 2 -- case. 3 BY MR. SCRUGGS: 4 Q 5 border, there was no warrant outstanding for him -- 6 A No, there was not. 7 Q -- for any crime, correct? 8 A As far as I know, there was not, and according to the 9 information you provided, that warrant was not issued until And when he was stopped in August of 2010 at the 10 after he was detained. 11 Q 12 yesterday from the folks up in Maine, the reason for the 13 stop was for national security issues, not for some type 14 child pornography investigation, isn't that correct? 15 A That's what I read, yes. 16 Q It wasn't until after he was stopped, interrogated, 17 and so forth, that this child pornography warrant is issued, 18 correct? 19 A I believe that's the timeline, yes. 20 Q All right. 21 wife stands ready, to provide whatever insurance the Court 22 needs to assure his presence at the trial in this case, 23 correct? 24 A 25 According to the documentation that we received just Anyway, regardless, you stand ready, your Yes, we do. THE COURT: Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Any recross? Filed 06/06/12 Page 36 of 119 PageID #: 483 37 1 MS. INGRAM: 2 THE COURT: 3 MR. SCRUGGS: THE COURT: 7 MS. INGRAM: 8 THE COURT: right. Is there any objection -No objection. -- to the medical records? Let's run another copy of those. 10 THE WITNESS: 11 THE COURT: 12 Yes, and unfortunately this is my only copy. 6 9 Are you going to put in the medical records? 4 5 No, Your Honor. In the meantime, Mr. Searcy, could you come up here for just a minute? (Pause;) (Confers off record.) 14 THE COURT: 15 MR. SCRUGGS: Do you have other witnesses? Judge, I am prepared to put on my client, who will basically -THE COURT: 17 18 You may step down. Thank you, ma'am. 13 16 All Good. I would like to hear from your client. 19 MR. SCRUGGS: -- confirm. 20 (WITNESS WAS SWORN.) Okay. 21 MATTHEW DEHART, 22 having first been duly sworn, 23 was examined and testified as follows: 24 DIRECT EXAMINATION 25 Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 37 of 119 PageID #: 484 38 1 BY MR. SCRUGGS: 2 Q You are Matthew DeHart. 3 A Yes, sir, I am. 4 Q Mr. DeHart, first and foremost here, when we walked 5 into the courtroom, we received on our table a list of 6 conditions -- I guess these are proposed special conditions 7 of bond -- that the probation office apparently has put 8 together? 9 A Yes. 10 Q Do you remember seeing this? 11 A Yes, I do. 12 Q And if you are released pending trial of this matter, 13 are you prepared to abide by each and every one of these 14 conditions? 15 A Absolutely. 16 Q The only problem is that it should say Southern 17 District of Indiana, not Illinois, right? 18 A Yes. 19 Q That's where you would reside. 20 your dad. 21 A Yeah, my parents. 22 Q -- and mom. 23 going to appear every time the Court has you slated for an 24 appearance? 25 A Is that correct? You would reside with Is that correct -- Can you assure this court that you are Yes, I can. Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 38 of 119 PageID #: 485 39 1 Q All right. I want to back up, if I could, because 2 this is an issue that you have not been able to address thus 3 far. 4 A Yes. 5 Q That is, after January 25, 2010, okay, at that point 6 in time, you realized there was some type of child 7 pornography investigation. 8 A Yes. 9 Q When that search warrant was executed, you were there, Is that correct? 10 correct? 11 A Uh-huh. 12 Q What was your concern at that point in time with 13 regard to future criminal prosecution? 14 A 15 names related to my other organization that they would 16 obtain through searching my stuff. 17 would put my group at risk. 18 Q 19 pornography -- 20 A Yes. 21 Q -- you have had at least some access to materials 22 related to that over the past 21 months. 23 a lot more information that you're still seeking, but are 24 you at all concerned about being able to successfully defend 25 those allegations? I was concerned I had a lit of contact information and I was concerned that it Now, with regard to these allegations of child Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 And I know there's Filed 06/06/12 Page 39 of 119 PageID #: 486 40 1 A I'm not concerned at all, sir. 2 Q Okay. 3 your information that's been taken from you, that you will 4 be able to put forth a defense? 5 A I do. 6 Q Therefore, there's no reason whatsoever for you to run 7 off, correct? 8 A You feel like if we're provided with all of No, there isn't. 9 MS. INGRAM: Objection. 10 THE COURT: 11 MR. SCRUGGS: Leading. Sustained. All right. Sorry. 12 BY MR. SCRUGGS: 13 Q 14 now? 15 A No, sir, I don't. 16 Q All right. 17 been no indictment or prosecution with regard to these 18 national security issues, correct? 19 A No, there hasn't. 20 Q All right. 21 sought out asylum? Do you have any reason to fail to appear for court Obviously, in the past 21 months there's Now, you did go to Mexico, came back, and 22 MS. INGRAM: 23 THE COURT: 24 BY MR. SCRUGGS: 25 Q Objection. Sustained. Why did you do these things? Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Leading. Why did you go to Mexico Filed 06/06/12 Page 40 of 119 PageID #: 487 41 1 a couple of days later, then go seek asylum; what was in 2 your head at that time? 3 A Can I address each one? 4 Q Yeah, sure. 5 A As in terms of Mexico, I was in panic mode. 6 very concerned they were going to get other information that 7 they missed the first time which had to do with individuals 8 in the group, like I said. 9 I didn't know how I would be able to protect those 10 people and their information they had. 11 to do that in this country. 12 I was I didn't see any way I thought I was under another investigation with 13 regards to Anonymous, and I really didn't know what I was 14 doing at the time. 15 As for the asylum, I feel completely politically 16 disillusioned being here. 17 government has been prosecuting members of our group. THE COURT: 18 19 20 21 I was very upset at the way the When you say your "group", you mean Anonymous? THE WITNESS: I mean Anonymous and the subgroup known as Anti-Sect. 22 THE COURT: Okay. 23 THE WITNESS: As a group, we were very concerned 24 with extra legal activities the government was taking 25 against the group, what we perceived, and I didn't think I Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 41 of 119 PageID #: 488 42 1 could have a fair shot here. 2 BY MR. SCRUGGS: 3 Q 4 go to Canada? 5 A 6 I could resume life. 7 from the group and being there, things would stop. 8 Q 9 why is that? Okay. So after that, you went to Canada, why did you I wanted to start a normal career there. I was hoping I was hoping that by severing myself Now, August 6, 2010, you come back across the border, 10 A 11 It's a six month visa. 12 Q 13 time, correct? 14 A Yes, I was. 15 Q Sort of summarize what happened over the course of the 16 next couple of weeks. 17 A 18 morning. 19 from Saint Stephen to Calais. 20 I had to renew my visa. I had to get a student visa. You were stopped, you were detained at that point in Let's see. I think I crossed about 8:00 in the There's three land bridges in the United States I crossed at one of the bridges. I made it to the 21 border office, and they told me my passport had been 22 flagged, and they asked me to sit down. 23 They told me I would be on my way soon, they had to 24 ask me a few questions. 25 patted me down. They dumped out my backpack and They put me in handcuffs and made me wait Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 42 of 119 PageID #: 489 43 1 for several hours. 2 After waiting, an FBI or ICE van took me to a 3 detention facility, and I was locked up in a holding cell. 4 My blood was either drawn or I was given something in my 5 left arm. 6 I was interrogated. I know the papers said 3:00, but 7 I think it started at 12:00, and they started asking me 8 questions about the group, and that's where that proceeded 9 that day. 10 I didn't feel of right mind that entire day. And that evening I had broken down about 7:00 when 11 they brought me to Penobscot, which is the county jail. 12 remember waking up in an ambulance that night. 13 I barely remember getting a CAT scan. I I guess they 14 brought me back probably early in the morning of the 7th. 15 I do not remember being interrogated that day, but the paper 16 says I was. 17 I was put in a dry cell, which is a cell without a 18 toilet or sink. 19 was Thorazine. 20 I was given a medication that they told me I was not allowed to have anything else to drink 21 because they said I swallowed a thumb drive, and they were 22 concerned about me going to the bathroom or having any food. 23 I asked for water. They didn't give me water. They 24 gave me the Kool Aid that went along with my Thorazine. 25 That's the only time I had anything to drink. Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 43 of 119 PageID #: 490 44 1 They beat on doors constantly every 15, 20 minutes, 2 every time I tried to go to sleep. 3 I was not allowed out. When I asked to go out, I 4 asked to talk to my lawyer, which I had a lawyer from 5 Indiana that we had currently seen -- I mean, previously 6 seen -- this was the 7th -- I had not been arraigned. 7 didn't have a court-assigned lawyer then. 8 9 10 They wouldn't let me talk to a lawyer. make any phone calls. I They wouldn't I repeatedly asked to do that. That Sunday I remember being interrogated, more 11 questions about the group, questions about -- I mean, I 12 remember generalities about Air Force stuff. 13 As far as the next week, I don't remember much at all. 14 Again, I was in the same situation in that cell. 15 concerned, I couldn't talk to my parents tell them how I was 16 doing. 17 I was And after that, they moved me to -- let's see 18 Cumberland County, I think, Portland, Maine. 19 interrogated again at that facility by two special agents of 20 the FBI that flew up from D.C. 21 that either. 22 I was I don't recall much about And then they brought me to Stratford County, New 23 Hampshire, and interrogated me again. 24 last time I was interrogated. 25 five or six times. Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Then that was the I think it was a total of Filed 06/06/12 Page 44 of 119 PageID #: 491 45 Then I was brought to NBC Brooklyn where they had a 1 2 bubble pack of what was the rest of my Thorazine, and they 3 handed it to me, and that's where I saw they were giving me 4 Thorazine the whole time. 5 Q 6 actually got Nashville or Bowling Green, I should say? 7 A A month and three days. 8 Q All right. 9 taking medication you have never taken before. So how long did it take you from August 6, 2010, to And during that time period, you were Is that 10 correct? 11 A I have never taken Thorazine. 12 Q All right. 13 not all of them? 14 A Yes. 15 Q Now, you have had the opportunity to review some of 16 the reports that have been provided recently from the law 17 enforcement people in Maine. 18 A Yes. 19 Q And did you see on there where you did give 20 information regarding e-mail addresses, and passwords, and 21 so forth? 22 A Yes. 23 Q All right. 24 e-mail addresses and passwords? 25 A And do you remember some of the events but Is that correct? Is that correct? Now, what is the significance of those Those are e-mail addresses I used to communicate with Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 45 of 119 PageID #: 492 46 1 my group, with different people in the group, different 2 people in the game World of the Warcraft. 3 miscellaneous things. 4 Q 5 on them related to this case, you think? 6 A 7 case, yes, sir. 8 Q We have still been searching for those, correct? 9 A Absolutely. 10 Q Yeah. 11 A Yes. 12 Q -- since you have been incarcerated, how have you been 13 treated at the facility where you are in Warren County? 14 A 15 but in terms of specific medical treatment, I have been 16 denied my ADHD medication. I mean, they are Did those e-mail addresses have exculpatory material It had server logs that would have helped in this Anyway, moving on, if we could, all right -- In terms compared to everyone else, about the same, I have put in three or four requests saying I needed 17 18 Adderall, or something similar, Vivance or some Concerta 19 perhaps, and they said they can't give me anything of that 20 sort. 21 The one nurse said they don't treat ADHD at that 22 facility. They tried me on several antidepressants, one of 23 those being Remeron. 24 I was on that, but I had an understanding with one 25 nurse that I could take it later in evening because they Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 46 of 119 PageID #: 493 47 1 have two prescribe time for giving me medication. 2 doing that for three or four weeks, and then randomly they 3 told me I was hoarding medication and threw me in the hole. That's an arbitrary process. 4 I was If you run the shower 5 too long or you step on your razor blade or basically you 6 just irritate the guards, they throw you in 24 hour 7 isolation. The sunlight is a big issue, getting outside is a big 8 9 issue, but, I mean, the whole thing is crappy. It's -- 10 Q 11 defense? 12 A 13 without worrying about people copying them down. 14 time I was put in the hole, I had notes on my person. 15 seized them downstairs and made a photocopy of them. 16 believe Kim Hodde mentioned that before. 17 Is that affecting your ability to assist in your Absolutely, without a doubt. I can't write notes At that They I I can't type on my computer without worrying about my 18 computer discovery which was provided -- without worrying 19 about it being monitored. 20 21 22 23 24 25 I can't have a phone call without being monitored especially discussing issues like this. Again -- I see you once a week or once every two weeks, again, it's a far drive for my defense. I just can't -- it's very hard to think without my medication. Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 47 of 119 PageID #: 494 48 1 Q Again, if you are released, are you prepared to comply 2 with whatever conditions of release that are set out in the 3 document -- 4 A Absolutely. 5 Q -- prepared by the probation officer? 6 A Yes, sir. 7 Q No desire -- do you have any desire to seek asylum 8 someplace anymore? 9 A Not anymore, no. 10 MS. INGRAM: 11 THE COURT: 12 MR. SCRUGGS: 13 THE COURT: 14 MR. SCRUGGS: 15 THE COURT: 17 MS. INGRAM: 18 THE COURT: records. 22 haven't seen. 25 All right. I pass the witness. All right. Judge, I guess can we make this an Any objection to this exhibit? I haven't seen it. You said Ms. Daughtrey was reviewing MS. INGRAM: 21 24 Overruled. it, Ms. Ingram. 20 23 Leading. exhibit? 16 19 Objection. She was reviewing the medical This is actually the bond conditions that I THE COURT: Oh. I'm sure Mr. Searcy gave it to the government as well. MS. INGRAM: Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 He -- Filed 06/06/12 Page 48 of 119 PageID #: 495 49 MS. DAUGHTREY: 1 2 He gave us it to us as we walked into the courtroom. THE COURT: 3 We won't make that an exhibit. I 4 don't think we -- have we admitted the medical records? 5 there an objection? I can't remember. 6 MR. SCRUGGS: 7 MS. INGRAM: 8 THE COURT: 9 Exhibit 3. Do you object? No, we need to do that. There's no objection, Your Honor. All right. So they are admitted as Go ahead. (Defendant's Exhibit 3 was received into 10 11 Was evidence.) CROSS-EXAMINATION 12 13 BY MS. INGRAM: 14 Q 15 executed, you were aware that the information that you are 16 going to be investigated for based on search warrant was 17 child pornography, right? 18 A Yes. 19 Q Did you believe that was a ruse? 20 A I did. 21 Q So you didn't believe that you were going to be later 22 charged with production of child pornography? 23 A I did not believe that. 24 Q But you were aware that you were lying and making 25 threatening phone calls to the victims family, right? Back in January of 2010 when the search warrant was Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 49 of 119 PageID #: 496 50 1 A I wasn't making threatening phone calls. 2 Q You weren't 17 years old, were you? 3 A No. 4 Q Do you remember telling the victim's mother that you 5 were 17 years old? 6 A Yes, I do. THE COURT: 7 Now, we're getting into the offense, 8 and he didn't really testify about any contact with the 9 victim's family, so it's beyond the scope, and I also am not 10 going to give you free-wheeling discovery. 11 detention issues only. 12 MS. INGRAM: Yes, Your Honor. We're focused on I was addressing 13 the portion only as it relates to the issue of danger to the 14 community and harassment to family members for purposes of 15 detention. THE COURT: 16 17 Well, ask him about future conduct rather than admissions of past conduct. 18 MS. INGRAM: 19 THE COURT: Yes, Your Honor. Okay. 20 BY MS. INGRAM: 21 Q 22 remember telling them about Jacob Diel? 23 A No, I do not. 24 Q Have you had an opportunity to review that report? 25 A Tentatively. When you were speaking to investigators, do you I got five minutes. Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 50 of 119 PageID #: 497 51 1 Q Do you know who Jacob Diel is? 2 A He's an individual at the Indiana Air National Guard. 3 Q And did you have reason to believe that he was 4 involved in some sort of activity that was illegal? 5 A Not necessarily. 6 Q So is this the investigation, that report, that you 7 don't remember talking to law enforcement? 8 A I think so, yes. 9 Q Do you remember which time you did remember speaking 10 to law enforcement? 11 A At the border. 12 Q Okay. 13 A U.S. Canada border. 14 Q Okay. 15 A Well, actually starting with the search warrant. 16 would be the first time I spoke with law enforcement. 17 Q Do you remember speaking to them then? 18 A Yes. 19 Q Okay. 20 when you spoke to law enforcement there? 21 A I do. 22 Q And you don't remember any other -- 23 A I remember being brought to the room. 24 Q -- interviews? 25 A I barely remember the different sets of agents. Which border? That Do you -- and do you remember the U.S. Canada, Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 There Filed 06/06/12 Page 51 of 119 PageID #: 498 52 1 were a lot of very specific technical questions that I don't 2 remember. 3 Q 4 but you don't remember what they were, is that what you're 5 testifying to? 6 A This is true. 7 Q You have never been given top security clearance, have 8 you? 9 A You remember that you were asked technical questions, I was approved for the background check. I was never 10 validated on my ID. Basically you have to use your ID to 11 log into the computer. 12 Q 13 clearance, that's not true. 14 background investigation for that top security clearance. 15 Is that correct? 16 A I didn't differentiate between that, no, ma'am. 17 Q Did you receive top security clearance? 18 A Yes, ma'am. 19 Q May I hand the witness what we'll mark as Exhibit 20 Number 1? 21 A Yes, ma'am. 22 Q What is it? 23 A It's a -- that's my separation report. 24 Q Is there a portion on there that references the top 25 security clearance? So when we have heard that you have had top security You were cleared for a Do you recognize that? I believe it's circled. Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 52 of 119 PageID #: 499 53 1 A Yes. 2 Q Does that say that you are cleared for a background 3 investigation for top security clearance? 4 A I think that's what it says. 5 Q And you are telling the Court that you, in fact, got 6 that top security clearance? 7 A 8 background check and actually having the clearance. 9 aware of the difference between the two. I'm not really aware of difference between passing the I'm not That's not my 10 expertise. 11 Q 12 top security clearance or did at one point before you were 13 discharged? 14 A Besides this, no. 15 Q Why did you flee to Mexico after the -- the day after 16 the search warrant was executed? 17 A 18 names and information on there. 19 to come back and get that. 20 that. 21 myself doing that here. 22 Q Why did you choose Mexico? 23 A It was the closest, easiest other country to get to. 24 Q And was Canada also the other closest, easiest country 25 to get to besides Mexico when you went there? Do you have any documentation to show that you have I was concerned that they had missed things that have I thought they were going I had no feasible way to secure I didn't know what to do with it. Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 I couldn't see Filed 06/06/12 Page 53 of 119 PageID #: 500 54 1 A I suppose it would have been. 2 Q And do you remember hiding your computer in a 3 microwave? 4 A I do. 5 Q When you went to school up in Canada, your parents 6 actually set you up to go to school there, didn't they? 7 A They paid for it, yes. 8 Q And you first tried French, right? 9 A I did. 10 Q That lasted only eight weeks, isn't that true? 11 A That was the completed course. 12 course. 13 Q 14 education, but you chose not to, isn't that right? 15 A That's all my parent paid for. 16 Q Then they decided to pay for welding because I'm sure 17 that's what you wanted to do, right? 18 A Yes. 19 Q Has anyone from the government ever spoken to you in 20 detail about this website that you're so concerned about? 21 A On IRC, yes. 22 Q Where is that? 23 A Internet relay chat. 24 it. 25 Q It was an eight week You could have continued on with the bilingual It's whatever server is hosting Where is the report that references that? Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 54 of 119 PageID #: 501 55 1 A I don't have a report that references that. 2 Q So what you're telling the Court is that you remember 3 talking about it, but no one ever felt the need to put it in 4 paper? 5 A In terms of this specific case or? 6 Q I'm talking about any of these reports that we have 7 been speaking of. 8 A Will you, please, ask the question again? 9 Q Yes. Do you have any reports or information that 10 shows that you discussed these websites that you are 11 concerned about? 12 A No, I do not. 13 Q May I hand the witness what we'll mark as Government's 14 Exhibit 2? 15 MR. SCRUGGS: 16 MS. INGRAM: 17 May I see what it is she's handing? It's this investigative report from yesterday. 18 (Counsel confer.) 19 MR. SCRUGGS: Judge, I would note that I just 20 received that yesterday, and he's only had a chance to look 21 at it about 30 minutes ago. THE COURT: 22 Okay. 23 BY MS. INGRAM: 24 Q Can you take a look at that? 25 A Would you like me to review the whole thing? Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 55 of 119 PageID #: 502 56 1 Q No, I just want to you take a look at it. 2 A Okay. 3 Q Do you recognize that? 4 A From over there. 5 Q Yes. 6 August 26, 2010? 7 A This is what it's labeled, yes, ma'am. 8 Q If I can refer you to page 4, please, at the top where 9 it references Jacob Diel? So does this appear to be the FBI report dated 10 A Yes. 11 Q Can you review that, please, and tell me when you 12 finish looking at that paragraph? (Pause.) 13 14 A I have. 15 Q And you have had a chance to look at this, as you just 16 mentioned, right? 17 A Yes. 18 Q It talks about what you said about Diel, isn't that 19 true? 20 A Yes, it does. 21 Q Is that what you told the FBI? 22 A I'm assuming so. 23 Q Have you been made aware that Jacob Diel has offered 24 for his hotel to be searched? 25 A No. Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 56 of 119 PageID #: 503 57 1 Q Did you know that he offered his computers to be 2 seized and searched? 3 A I'm not aware of that. 4 Q Did you know that he offered to take a polygraph in 5 order to prove that none of this information was, in fact, 6 true? 7 A I'm not aware of that. 8 Q Do you remember telling Pretrial Services that you 9 lived in on-campus housing? 10 A I don't remember that. 11 Q Do you remember telling anyone that you lived in 12 on-campus housing? 13 A 14 Services or that discussion where I lived. 15 Q 16 discussions with Pretrial Services, you don't remember 17 speaking to them at all -- 18 A I don't -- 19 Q -- or you don't remember speaking to them specifically 20 about your housing situation? 21 A I don't remember any of my discussions with Pretrial So when you say you never remember having any I don't remember speaking to them at all. 22 MS. INGRAM: 23 THE COURT: 24 (Pause.) 25 MS. INGRAM: Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 May I have just a moment? Yes. I have nothing further. Filed 06/06/12 Page 57 of 119 PageID #: 504 58 1 THE COURT: Any redirect? 2 MR. SCRUGGS: 3 THE COURT: No. When you said you fled to Mexico 4 because you were afraid they would come back and get 5 information they missed, what did you mean? 6 Did you take -- you took a computer with you, perhaps, 7 that had that information on it? 8 about. What are you talking 9 THE WITNESS: 10 devices, Your Honor, thumb drives. 11 THE COURT: 12 THE WITNESS: 13 THE COURT: 14 THE WITNESS: 15 THE COURT: 16 They were portable memory storage Thumb drives? Yes, ma'am. And you took them with you to Mexico? I did, Your Honor. And they missed these in the search of your house? 17 THE WITNESS: 18 THE COURT: 19 THE WITNESS: 20 THE COURT: Yes, they did. Where were they? They were inside of a gun case. Okay. And these were about your 21 group, not about child pornography? 22 THE WITNESS: 23 They were about the group, not about child pornography. 24 THE COURT: 25 MS. DAUGHTREY: Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Okay. All right. I'm sorry. You may step down. I didn't hear that Filed 06/06/12 Page 58 of 119 PageID #: 505 59 1 last -THE COURT: 2 He said they were about his group; 3 the thumb drives he took to Mexico were about his group, not 4 about child pornography. Okay. 5 You may step down. 6 MR. SCRUGGS: 7 THE COURT: 8 Does the government have any MS. INGRAM: Yes, Your Honor, we do. Would you like us to proceed? 11 THE COURT: 12 MS. INGRAM: 13 No, Your Honor. witnesses? 9 10 Any other witnesses? Yes, I would. United States calls Detective Brett Kniss. (WITNESS WAS SWORN.) 14 15 BRETT KNISS, 16 having first been duly sworn, 17 was examined and testified as follows: 18 DIRECT EXAMINATION 19 BY MS. INGRAM: 20 Q Please state your name. 21 A Brett Kniss. 22 Q Where are you employed? 23 A Franklin Police Department. 24 Q In what capacity? 25 A Detective with the Internet Crimes Against Children Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 59 of 119 PageID #: 506 60 1 Task Force. 2 Q How long have you been with that task force? 3 A Five years. 4 Q As part of your duties, did you become involved in the 5 investigation against Matthew DeHart? 6 A Yes, I did. 7 Q How did that happen? 8 A In January of 2009, the parents of one of the victims 9 involved in this case reported this case to our police 10 department, which I was assigned to investigate. Specifically, they found that their son had been 11 12 sending images, pornographic images, of themselves to a 13 person they believed at the time was named Matthew DiMarco. 14 Q 15 that your agency was contacted? 16 A 17 they had found that their son had been sending this Matthew 18 DiMarco images of himself from early 2008. 19 Q 20 defendant was having with the victims in this case? 21 A I'm sorry. 22 Q Did you get involved with any phone calls? 23 A Yes, I did get involved with phone calls. 24 Q And please tell the Court what happened with that. 25 A One of -- both of the victims involved in this case, And do you remember about what time frame this was It was January of 2009 when we were contacted, and What did you do as regarding the contact that the Can you -- Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 60 of 119 PageID #: 507 61 1 as far as Franklin is concerned, had been receiving phone 2 calls from -- with who they believed to be Matthew DiMarco. And at one time, one of the victims's mothers had been 3 4 in contact or had talked to him, and she was at the police 5 station, and we did a controlled phone call of her talking 6 to Matthew DeHart. 7 Q Was that on January 7, 2009? 8 A I believe so. 9 Q Can you tell the Court what happened in this phone 10 call? 11 A 12 Matthew why he was contacting her son and the other victim, 13 why he was giving them gifts, why he was traveling to 14 Franklin, Tennessee to meet with both her son and the other 15 victim, and why he was contacting them in general as to how 16 -- what their relationship was, and asked him not to contact 17 them anymore. 18 Q 19 call? 20 A Yes, he stated he was 17 years old. 21 Q Did he provide a false address in New York? 22 A Yes, he did. 23 Q Did you make any other phone calls or were present 24 during any other phone calls that were made? 25 A During the phone call, the victim's mother asked Did the defendant state how old he was in this phone Yes, I was. Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 61 of 119 PageID #: 508 62 1 Q And please tell us about that. 2 A One night shortly after the first phone call that we 3 made in a controlled manner, I was at the house of the 4 second victim in this case. 5 was talking to them, they received a phone call on the 6 caller ID which stated it was a law firm from New York City. And during that time while I He received the phone call which immediately hung up, 7 8 couldn't make a connection. 9 at this time I was able to record the phone call that the 10 victim's mother had with the person at other end, who we 11 believed at the time to be Matthew DeHart. 12 Q 13 on that phone call? 14 A 15 other end of the phone line as Matthew DeHart or who we 16 believed to be Matthew DiMarco at the time. 17 Q Were any other phone calls made? 18 A There was a -- after the phone call which ended where 19 we believed it was -- or which stated on the caller ID it 20 was from a law firm in New York City, we received another 21 phone call within the next 10 to 20 minutes from who we 22 believed to be at the time Matthew DiMarco asking for the 23 victim's son. 24 Q 25 The phone call came back, and Did one of the victims actually identify the defendant Yes, the second victim did identify the voice on the So was the defendant -THE COURT: Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Victim's son? Filed 06/06/12 Page 62 of 119 PageID #: 509 63 THE WITNESS: 1 I'm sorry, the victim, the second 2 victim. 3 BY MS. INGRAM: 4 Q 5 spoofing numbers? 6 A 7 it look on the caller ID as if it was a law firm from New 8 York City, but on the second call, where he was portraying 9 himself being Matthew DiMarco, he did not use any spoofing. Was the defendant using different what's called For the first phone call he did from the -- which made 10 Q When you were conducting your investigation, were you 11 able to confirm the defendant's connection to a spoofing 12 account? 13 A 14 suspect. 15 noticed a 1-866 number being dialed several times. Yes, we had subpoenaed the cell phone records for the Once we received those subpoena results back, I We -- I did a reverse lookup to that and found it to 16 17 be Spoofcard.com. We subpoenaed the records to Spoofcard 18 and realized that Matthew DeHart had a lengthy account and 19 history with Spoofcard.com. 20 Q 21 you tell the defendant trying to disguise his voice in some 22 of these recorded calls? 23 A 24 distinguish it very easily as being Matthew DiMarco versus 25 somebody else trying -- there's no separation between the And what about this voice recognition, was -- could He might have tried to, but we were able to Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 63 of 119 PageID #: 510 64 1 two. It was clearly Matthew DeHart. 2 Q Was that also with the help of the victims? 3 A That is correct. 4 Q Are you aware of any contact that the defendant has 5 made recently or after this January 2009, these phone calls, 6 with the victims' families? 7 A 8 calls from different places, many times that they didn't -- 9 they didn't answer them, and most of them were more in a 10 The victims' families had received different phone harassing manner. We have received -- they have received phone calls as 11 12 late as September of 2010 which one of the victims stated he 13 heard something in the background like a lot of noise, from 14 a phone number he didn't recognize, asking about things that 15 were personal to him that he knew and that he had mentioned 16 to Matthew DeHart in his prior contact with him. 17 Q 18 for the families at any point during this investigation? 19 A Yes, I did. 20 Q And can you please tell the Court about that? 21 A In January of 2009 both families were very concerned 22 for their safety, so concerned that they -- that the suspect 23 who he was portraying himself as a mobster son, Matthew 24 DiMarco, who was into several mafia dealings in larger 25 cities, mainly New York, they believed that he was going to Have you done any sort of surveillance or protection Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 64 of 119 PageID #: 511 65 1 come down and cause bodily harm to them. They were so concerned I parked a patrol car in front 2 3 of one of the victims' houses, and I had requested what's 4 called a trap trace order, which a judge signed a order for 5 the cell phone account for us to receive an update through 6 the GPS system or through the cell tower systems whenever 7 that cell phone was moved from different cell tower to 8 different cell tower or started moving in any other 9 direction other than around the Newburgh, Indiana, area, we 10 would be receiving notification that it was moving. 11 Q And did that surveillance go on for several weeks? 12 A Yes, it did. 13 Q Are you aware of any firearms that the defendant had 14 at any point in time with one of the victims? 15 A 16 mentioned that during one of the occasions approximately 17 November 2008, in that time frame, close to Thanksgiving, 18 the -- Matthew DeHart did drive to Franklin, Tennessee, and 19 picked up one of the victims and drove him around the city 20 and took him to a gun range in Murfreesboro, Tennessee. 21 Q And did the victim hold the firearm or shoot it? 22 A Yes, both. 23 Q Did the victim's parents know about this at the time? 24 A Not at the time. 25 him. While interviewing one of the victims, the victim Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 They found out about it later from Filed 06/06/12 Page 65 of 119 PageID #: 512 66 MS. INGRAM: May I have just a moment? THE COURT: Yes. (Pause) MS. INGRAM: No further questions. THE COURT: Cross? moss--mum BY MR. SCRUGGS: Detective Kniss, your investigation I'm sure has shown that Victim Number 1, Mr. --, as well as we'll call him victim Number 2, Mr. but he's not listed as a victim in this case, he's not my client has not been indicted for that, but we'll say Mr. THE COURT: Can we not use last names? MR. SCRUGGS: Okay. How about first names, is that okay? THE COURT: First names are okay. BY MR. SCRUGGS: Okay. with regard to - he's the victim listed in this case, -is not indicted in this case, correct? A That is correct. Okay. You realize that my client and - and- all participated in this World of war Craft game that's some worldwide gaming thing, is that right? A Yes, I'm aware of that. Okay. You also realize that Mr. that -and Case 3:1Orcr700250 Documem 105 Fi'ed 06/06/12 Page 66 of 119 PagelD 513 67 - are both very well versed in the use of computers and in the use of computer technology and uploading and downloading materials, and so forth? A I'm not aware of how well versed they are, but I do know they have above the as far as their computer savvy--ness, they are a little bit above the average person, I would say. And did your investigation show that Mr. DeHart also had a female friend who went to Lipscomb that he came to visit on those occasions he came to Franklin? A can you state the question again? Did your investigation bear out that Mr. DeHart had a female friend, a Heather Kaseer (phonetic), who went to Lipscomb that he would come to visit Yes. when came to Franklin and Yes, I was aware of Heather Kaseer. So he wasn't coming to Middle Tennessee just to see .nd/or- correct? A He did see -and - during his visit. Let's make sure we're clear about this. Is it your position that- has actually ever met this man personally one on one? A From my interviews with-, yes, he has met him. Okay. Yet, -could not pick him out of a lineup, Case 3:1Orcr700250 Documem 105 Fi'ed 06/06/12 Page 67 of 119 PagelD 514 68 correct? A That is correct. All right. when you say he went to visit with he's the person he took to the gun range, right? A Yes. Okay. Now so apparently there has been contact between Mr. Del-[art and- and there may have been some contact between Mr. DeHart and - correct? A The contact with -and Mr. DeHart happened approximately two years before the investigation got started, and at that tine I believe he was 12 years old, met him on a dark night. Regardless, in light of all this contact that occurred between Mr. Del-lart,_ and -, there's never been any allegation of any inappropriate sexual conduct on behalf of Mr. DeHart against either of these two individuals, isn't that correct? A There has not been an allegation, no. Okay. And when you did this controlled phone call that I guess involved_ mother, correc A That is correct. there was never any admissions, acknowledgments, in any sort regarding Mr. DeHart enticing someone to produce pornography of themselves or send pornography or anything like that, correct Case 3:1Orcr700250 Documem 105 Fi'ed 06/06/12 Page 68 of 119 PagelD 515 69 Not during the phone call. nothing like that? In fact, this whole incident arose from an incident that occurred maybe, I don't know, six months or year earlier, involving probably wasn't that far back involving a situation where I believe -s house was toilet papered. Is that correct? Are you familiar with that? A I am familiar with that, but this did not start from that' when -'s house was toilet papered, he pointed to Matthew DeHart as being the person who did that, correct, or being responsible for it, right? A He believed at the time, yes' And that apparently led to the discovery of this information of these items on his phone, correct? A That I'm not aware of. Okay. All right' And one of the items on- phone was, in fact, a picture of a nude female' Is that correct? A I don't recall any pictures of nude fanales on his phone' I don't recall were there not some pornographic pictures of the females on his phone? A I don't recall any images on his phone. Because there's a report from the government that Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Fi'ed 06/06/12 Page 69 of 119 PagelD 516 70 there was one, and that phone has been lost or deleted, or something to that effect? A If that's what my reported stated. I said that was a long time ago, so All right. And you understand that this case against Mr. DeHart comes down to this idea, this assertion, that Mr. Del-[art was somehow assuming the identities of some females who were actually communicating with - in terms of - sending to those females pornographic pictures of himself? A Can you rephrase the question? This case revolves around in fact, your affidavit, arrest warrant and search warrant revolves around the supposition that somehow or another Mr. Del-lart was assuming the identities of some females who were communicating with -in an effort to get - to send to them pornographic pictures of himself? That is part of it, yes. That's what it's about, right? That is part of it, yes. Okay. And you have never been able to prove whether or not these females either exist or don't exist, correct? A I have not been able to prove that they don't exist. Okay. And you say about these spoofing calls that occurred where Mr. Del-[art was impersonating a person named DiMarco, right, that's what you were talking about Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Fi'ed 06/06/12 Page 70 of 119 PagelD 517 71 1 earlier -- 2 A Yes. 3 Q -- throughout all of those calls that were made, he 4 never threatened any type of physical harm to these folks, 5 did he? 6 A It was implied. 7 Q Basically, he was talking about potential legal action 8 against them and not physical harm, correct? 9 A He did state legal action, that is correct. 10 Q All right. That's all. THE COURT: 11 Any redirect? REDIRECT EXAMINATION 12 13 BY MS. INGRAM: 14 Q 15 I believe. 16 A 17 first day I have seen that name. 18 Q Is that the same Heather, Englasius? I'm not aware of Heather Englasius. Today is the The -THE COURT: 19 20 There was some questioning about a Heather Englasius, The Lipscomb student, is what you're talking about? MS. INGRAM: 21 Yes, Your Honor. 22 BY MS. INGRAM: 23 Q 24 what you just mentioned, that another Heather was also used 25 as someone who the defendant was going to go see in Mexico, Are you also aware that another Heather -- based on Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 71 of 119 PageID #: 518 72 1 that he had a friend there named Heather? 2 A I was not aware of that until today. 3 Q But have you become aware of that in reviewing 4 reports? 5 A No. 6 Q May I provide the witness what I believe is marked as 7 Government's Exhibit 2? 8 THE COURT: 9 MS. INGRAM: For identification only? Yes, Your Honor. Thank you. 10 BY MS. INGRAM: 11 Q If I can refer you to the fourth paragraph? 12 A Yes. 13 Q Have you had an opportunity to review that paragraph? 14 A Yes, I have. 15 Q And are you aware of, after reviewing that, a Heather 16 the defendant relied on as his contact and a friend that he 17 went to visit in Mexico? 18 A 19 this document. I was not aware of that until today after reviewing 20 MS. INGRAM: 21 THE COURT: 22 MR. SCRUGGS: 23 THE COURT: 24 MR. SCRUGGS: 25 I have no further questions. Any additional cross? No. You may step down. Judge, let me ask one other question. Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 72 of 119 PageID #: 519 73 BY SCRUGGS: Are you familiar with the fact that -and, I believe,-, as well, were both involved in Anonymous? A I have not heard of nor seen any evidence to that fact' Okay. THE COURT: You may step down' Any other government witnesses? INGRAM: United states calls Ms' -- (WITNESS ms swamp) am -- having first been duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows: DIRECT EXAMINLTIW BY INGRAM: Please state your name. A Jean And, Ms' --, how have you involved in this case? A - is my son' Are you the one that got law enforcement involved in this investigation? A Yes, ma'am' And what had happened that got you involved in law Case 3:1Orcr700250 Documem 105 Fi'ed 06/06/12 Page 73 of 119 PagelD 520 74 enforcement? A Well, basically-s mother had called me and said that she was concerned because someone had been giving some gift to - Do you know what those gifts were? A I believe it was a flag and a watch if I'm not mistaken' And she said do you know someone, he says he's from New Jersey, and that he knows- And I said, gosh, let me think' And then I relembered that my son had been playing a game on world of warcraft, and we had overheard him talking with someone that was very vial and using a lot of expletives and things, and we forbade our son to continue to play that game. And I said and I had asked my son who is that person, and he mentioned Matthew DiMarco' And I said, well, I think it might be this person, I think we better get together and have a conversation. That's when everything began to unfold, to the best of my recollection at this point in time Does _know - Yes' They are friends? They were friends at the time, yeah' were you involved in a phone conversation with who you Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Fi'ed 06/06/12 Page 74 of 119 PagelD 521 75 1 believed to be the defendant at any point? 2 A Yes, at Franklin Police Station. 3 Q And what did that phone call involve? 4 A Speaking with him and asking him why he was, you know, 5 contacting my son, and that we asked him not to continue to 6 contact him, I asked him how old he was. 7 giggly, and I even asked to speak to his mom. 8 Q Did he let you? 9 A No, he said she was out. 10 Q Did you ask him about the gifts that he was giving? 11 A At that point, you know, honestly, I don't remember 12 because it's quite sometime ago now. 13 Q Was it a lengthy conversation that you had with him? 14 A Not terribly. 15 Q And during that conversation did he tell you where he 16 lived? 17 A He may have. 18 Q Are you afraid of the defendant? 19 A Yes, I am. 20 Q Why? 21 A Because he has repeatedly lied, and he called our 22 house and used different phone numbers pretending to be 23 different people. 24 25 He was very Maybe five, ten minutes. I can't remember, honestly. My son is -- was very afraid of him initially, in particular. When he actually heard Matthew Dehart's voice Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 75 of 119 PageID #: 522 76 1 on our answering machine, he turned as white as a ghost. He said you don't want to mess with him, he's not -- 2 3 he's not right. 4 Q 5 things happen to you in the recent past that you believe may 6 have been attributable to the defendant? 7 A Possibly phone calls, yes. 8 Q And what happened with those phone calls? 9 A Well, very often it would just be an odd number that Have you or your son had any contact or any unusual 10 would come up. We really wouldn't know exactly who it was 11 or there would be the time that he did call, when he 12 spoofed, and he pretended to be a lawyer. Another time we got a phone call, and it was the 13 14 school that supposedly Matthew DiMarco was attending, 15 different things of that nature. 16 THE COURT: 17 THE WITNESS: 18 THE COURT: 19 THE WITNESS: 20 When was all this? That was at the beginning when -- 2009? -- things were first being discovered, yes. And then he was also on our property. 21 22 BY MS. INGRAM: 23 Q 24 that causes you concern? 25 A Has anything happened since that early 2009 time frame Well, not as much because he's been incarcerated, but, Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 76 of 119 PageID #: 523 77 I mean, there's always a fear that we have because of what has happened and because he is very unpredictable Are you aware of it sounds like you have had communications with - and his family? A Yes? And are they concerned for their safety? Indeed? Are they for the same reasons that you have mentioned? Yes? INGRAM: May I have just a moment? THE COURT: Yes? BY INGRAM: Can you indicate to the Court who else is here with you in the courtroom today? Susan is here, and my husband, INGRAM: No further questions. THE COURT: All right. Cross? moss--mum'qu BY SCRUGGS: So the spoofing occurred in January 2009, correct? I believe so? So the last time you have any have had any known contact with Mr. DeHart would have been in January 2009, correct? Case 3:1Orcr700250 Documem 105 Fi'ed 06/06/12 Page 77 of 119 PagelD 524 78 1 A Well, there was the incident with the T-P'ing, which I 2 think it was later on in that year. 3 Q 4 concern about Mr. DeHart, the toilet paper incident? 5 A It was part of it. 6 Q Okay. 7 concerned that you talked about that you're concerned about, 8 you can't say one way or the other whether or not that was 9 Matthew DeHart, can you? Is that what prompted all of this in terms of the Now, as far as any of these other calls are 10 A I'm sorry? 11 Q With regard to these other calls that you say occurred 12 I think after January of 2009? 13 A 14 type of nature, just odd calls. We cannot say definitely, but they were of the same And at one point my son was texted by what he thought 15 16 was a female, but he did not respond. It was no one that he 17 knew. 18 Q 19 nude female on his phone? 20 A No. 21 Q Okay. 22 actually ever met with Matthew DeHart face-to-face? 23 A 24 and at that point in time, Matthew DeHart gave him a video 25 and what was -- what he was told was a real diamond in a And were you aware that there was a photo found of a Now, do you know for a fact that your son has My son said that he did meet with him when he was 12, Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 78 of 119 PageID #: 525 79 little plastic bag' But you are aware your son was not able to identify Mr. DeHart from any type of lineup, though; you are familiar with that, aren't you? A I have just heard that, yes, but I did see the video and the stone' Now, if Mr' DeHart is released and given home confinement in his home in Indiana with electronic monitoring and any other conditions of his release, that would certainly allay any fears that you or Ms' would have regarding his release, wouldn't it? Not really' Why is that? well, because he's already fled' He's already been a flight risk. And even when this investigation was going on, he made those phone calls and did other things' He is very unpredictable He's never threatened you or your family with any type of physical violence, has he? A He hasn't threatened me' He has not engaged in any type of inappropriate sexual behavior when he's been with either your son or -, has he? A I cannot answer for- And as far as my son goes, I don't think so' Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Fi'ed 06/06/12 Page 79 of 119 PagelD 526 80 1 Q And with regard to the phone call, the controlled call 2 that you made to Mr. DeHart pursuant to this investigation, 3 I'm sure the officers tried to get you to get him to talk 4 about inappropriate sexual contact with your son, didn't 5 they? 6 A 7 me what to say. 8 Q 9 the concerns that you had in your mind, correct? Actually, no, they did not. All right. They did not really tell But that certainly would have been one of 10 A Well, it definitely was a concern. 11 Q And Mr. DeHart never made any type of statements, 12 admissions, or anything, about any type of inappropriate 13 sexual contact with your son, correct, during that phone 14 call? 15 A Well, not during the phone call. 16 Q Okay. 17 MR. SCRUGGS: 18 THE COURT: 19 MS. INGRAM: 20 That's all. Anything else? May I have brief redirect, Your Honor? (Pause.) 21 REDIRECT EXAMINATION 22 23 BY MS. INGRAM: 24 Q 25 involved -- his father was involved in the mob? Did you get any concerns that the defendant was Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 80 of 119 PageID #: 527 81 1 A That's what my son was told. 2 Q Do you know who told him that? 3 A It was -- would have been Matthew DeHart as Matthew 4 DiMarco. 5 Q 6 you mentioned there was some violent expletives that you 7 looked at, can you be more specific about the nature of the 8 communication that the defendant was having with your son 9 just on the World of War Craft? And the World of War Craft that was just discussed, 10 A Well, it's a live chat situation, and we happened to 11 be going by the room, and we heard my son speaking to him. And Matthew DeHart was saying different expletives and 12 13 was very sort of almost domineering in his tone and in the 14 way that he was speaking. 15 And we -- I immediately took notice and my husband did 16 as well because he also heard it, and we were very concerned 17 about that; well, who are you talking to, and we were very 18 concerned. 19 Q 20 with your son, and you mentioned not in the phone calls, but 21 you have been made aware of other information that the 22 defendant was involved in some sort of sexual relationship 23 with your son, right? 24 THE COURT: 25 THE WITNESS: And there was some questioning about the sexual nature Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 I'm sorry. Repeat that question. Yeah, thank you. Filed 06/06/12 Page 81 of 119 PageID #: 528 82 BY INGRAM: I guess the easiest way to ask this is you said not in the phone calls, would you have become aware of any other information about any sexual nature? A well, he apparently my understanding was that he was Matthew Del-[art was pretending to be a female and was asking my son to send pictures to this female' Sexually explicit pictures? Yes, nude pictures, yes' Do you know if - was tipping off the defendant the investigation at any point? Yes, he did' How do you know that? Because -s mother had told me' INGRAM: I have no further questions' THE COURT: Anything else? SCRUGGS: No, ma'am' THE COURT: All right. You may step down. Does the government have any more witnesses? INGRAM: No, Your Honor' THE COURT: All right. Do you have any rebuttal? SCRUGGS: (Counsel moves head from side to THE COURT: All right. we're going to take a lunch break at this time' we'll be in recess until 1:15. Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Fi'ed 06/06/12 Page 82 of 119 PagelD 529 83 1 We're in recess. MS. DAUGHTREY: 2 Your Honor, Ms. Ingram evidently 3 has a doctor's appointment at 12:30 that she expects to last 4 until 1:30. 5 be a possible reconvening time? 6 THE COURT: 7 If Your Honor is available at 2:00, would that Let's see. Is that all right with you, 2:00? 8 MR. SCRUGGS: 9 THE COURT: That's fine. 2:00 is fine. 10 MS. DAUGHTREY: 11 (Break.) 12 THE COURT: Thank you very much. I have a question about the medical 13 records. You all seem to indicate that these medical 14 records had some indication he had been given Thorazine. 15 don't find it any anywhere in here. 16 MR. SCRUGGS: No, the medical records do not 17 reflect he was given Thorazine. 18 recollection of the medication was that he was given. 19 THE COURT: I That's what his I thought somebody said we were 20 finally able to confirm that he was given Thorazine when he 21 got the medical records. 22 23 24 25 MR. SCRUGGS: No, just that he had been diagnosed with that psychotic episode. THE COURT: Okay. All right. I'll hear any argument on detention that anybody wishes to make. Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 83 of 119 PageID #: 530 84 MR. SCRUGGS: 1 May it please the Court, we're 2 asking the Court, once again, to consider Mr. Dehart's 3 release pending the trial of this matter. I think that since I have gotten involved in the case, 4 5 we have been very diligent in pressing the government for 6 discovery. And when I say "government", I say that in a generic 7 8 sense. I'm not blaming this -- the folks standing behind me 9 because obviously the Court has seen the difficulty that 10 they have had in trying to get some of this information. 11 THE COURT: Yes. 12 MR. SCRUGGS: So that's what I'm talking about. 13 And it's taken a long time, and the Court really was not 14 aware, I don't believe, of the complexity of this entire 15 case. 16 And when the Court was finally made aware of what went 17 on in August of 2010 in terms of why Mr. DeHart was stopped 18 and interrogated, and so forth, I mean, that's what this 19 case was really and truly all about, is what -- at least 20 from his perspective. 21 Then when it gets back here, in order for him to have 22 any chance of presenting his defense, it's critical that he 23 has access to all the technological tools that are possibly 24 available. 25 That would mean the hardware, number one, that he Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 84 of 119 PageID #: 531 85 1 needs copies of and then the expert assistance to analyze 2 that hardware to corroborate what his version of these 3 events is with regard to the sex thing, so to speak. But in the meantime, he's been locked up for almost 4 5 two years, and I don't think in any of the prior detention 6 hearings the Court ever heard in as much detail what this 7 case is really about. 8 THE COURT: 9 10 to review in camera documents that also reflect some of that. MR. SCRUGGS: 11 12 13 Well -- and I have had an opportunity So, anyway, the case is definitely in a much different posture. Now, you know, if we had to try the case next week, I 14 guess we could. 15 trial. 16 take some time, and I think the Court is aware of that. 17 If the Court said go to trial, we'll go to But if we're going to do it right, it's going to We have had the opportunity to hear, I think, briefly 18 from Agent Kniss, and my expert Mr. Kempvanee with regard to 19 what all is going on, what has to be done. 20 All right. They have met. We still don't have answers with regard to 21 whether the government is going to give us a mirror copy of 22 everything as opposed to select things in terms of these 23 drives. 24 25 Now, I don't think they even have them yet so that they can review them themselves as to whether or not there's Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 85 of 119 PageID #: 532 86 1 anything objectionable on these other items. But, 2 regardless, there's still much, much work that needs to be 3 done, and in the meantime Mr. DeHart sits in jail. So as far as get back to release, I believe, Judge, 4 5 that we have shown that, you know, Mr. DeHart did some 6 stupid things after the January 25, 2010 search warrant was 7 executed as far as going to Mexico, and the embassies, and 8 stuff like that, but I think that a lot has happened since 9 then. There's not been any kind of prosecution with regard 10 11 to national security issues, even though we have been led to 12 believe that could be happening. 13 prosecutions in any other jurisdictions. 14 left. 15 There's not been any other This is all that's This is all that's holding him. And he's more than willing to stay and fight and 16 defend these cases if he's given access to the materials 17 necessary to provide his defense. 18 His father and mother are here. They are willing 19 basically to put up everything they own. 20 technology in terms of electronic monitoring that can keep 21 track of where he is every second of the day, and I would 22 respectfully submit that he has no reason whatsoever to not 23 show up for court now because we can defend this case, and 24 we can win this case. 25 There is modern So we are respectfully asking the Court to let him out Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 86 of 119 PageID #: 533 87 1 until we get this case ready for trial, which probably is 2 going to be, I would say, three to six months, is what we're 3 looking at. 4 THE COURT: Okay. 5 MS. INGRAM: Government? It sounds like the crux of the 6 argument is that because discovery is taking an extended 7 period of time, the defendant should be released, because he 8 needs access to hard drives and expert assistance he needs 9 to be released. 10 11 And if that were true, all defendants would be released to help out in their defense. This defendant remains a flight risk. And I know Your 12 Honor wasn't as concerned prior about the defendant posing a 13 threat or danger to the community, but the victims' family 14 are in fear of this defendant. 15 reasons. 16 They are in fear for several This defendant knows how to spoof. He does it. He 17 did it in this case. 18 history the agent testified to, of spoofing the accounts. 19 The intimidation that he used involved, you know, 20 referencing that his father was a mobster; that he was 21 living in New York, had a law firm, attorney, in New York 22 calling. 23 He has accounts, a history, lengthy And I realize that that hadn't happened in a 24 significant period of time, but there is still concern that 25 this defendant is unstable and unpredictable. Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 87 of 119 PageID #: 534 88 The crux of our argument would be the flight risk, and 1 2 Your Honor heard a little bit more about that today and how 3 he fled to Mexico, admittedly, because it was the closest 4 country that was not the United States. And not only did he flee the day after the search 5 6 warrant was executed, he fled with evidence. He fled with 7 thumb drives that he had on him and left the country. 8 he decided to come back on his own, he did. When Then he admitted that Canada was the other closest 9 10 country to the United States that was not in this country, 11 and he knew that an investigation was going on, whether the 12 child pornography investigation, he acknowledges that that's 13 something that was real, we know that the defendant was 14 communicating with these boys, pretending to be a 17 year 15 old. 16 lawyer so he would stay out of trouble. 17 And we know he was calling them and pretending to be a So the United States' position is that he knew very 18 well that this investigation would involve child 19 pornography; in fact, it did. 20 The defendant claims that there's no concern about the 21 investigation of child pornography. 22 calling the parents to discourage them, intimidate them, 23 from contacting the police. 24 25 I just address in him The Court has been made aware of several lies that the defendant has told. And today when he took the stand, some Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 88 of 119 PageID #: 535 89 1 of those, he conveniently couldn't remember. 2 when I was asking him about staying in a dorm, if you 3 remember us talking to Pretrial Services about that, he 4 couldn't recall. 5 Diel when the FBI spoke to him about that. 6 7 8 For example, He couldn't recall his involvement with So these that were shown to be inaccurate, in consistent, he conveniently couldn't remember. There's other deception that has come forward today. 9 The representation of the defendant as another person, as 10 Your Honor is aware, and telling the family that he was 17 11 years old, I think, is significant, and shows that these 12, 12 14 year old boys that he had a relationship with, he was 13 grooming them. 14 He is your classic sexual child predator. He was giving them gifts, a diamond. He took them to 15 go shooting -- excuse me, one of the victims to go shooting. 16 He had weapons on him. 17 And while the defense uses this as he's a law-abiding 18 citizen because he got his carrying a concealed weapons 19 permit, he nonetheless felt compelled to have firearms 20 around; not only that, but take one of the minors shooting. 21 The mental health of the defendant, according to the 22 records, from August 6 and 7, 2010, apparently there was a 23 chief complaint of eye pain. 24 by HSI and FBI, he was found to have suffered from 25 psychosis. Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Prior to the defendant's stop Filed 06/06/12 Page 89 of 119 PageID #: 536 90 1 He was supposed to take Adderall but claimed that he 2 did not. And contrary to his urine screen which reflected 3 that he did have amphetamines in his system, not 4 specifically Adderall, but that that was in his system; the 5 testimony about the defendant's involvement in this 6 Anonymous and other programs and any interest by law 7 enforcement, there's no reports that I have seen or that I'm 8 aware of that detail any information about that. 9 THE COURT: 10 MS. INGRAM: Any information about what? Anonymous, his involvement in this 11 organization that he's so concerned about law enforcement 12 coming after him, and these -- 13 14 15 THE COURT: Well, you know that there was such an investigation. MS. INGRAM: I don't know that it was 16 specifically related to his involvement in that particular 17 organization. 18 19 20 THE COURT: Well, regardless, there was such an investigation. MS. INGRAM: I do acknowledge there was an 21 investigation, Your Honor, but, yes, I'm not aware that it 22 involved that specific detail. 23 The United States is concerned for the defendant's 24 unpredictability, he -- and the fact that his parents have 25 been proposed as third-party custodians, they are the ones Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 90 of 119 PageID #: 537 91 1 that set him up in school, they are the ones that paid for 2 it in Canada. They are the ones that have been helping him. They provided him the car to go to Mexico. 3 4 Ultimately, they're his parents. And in the end, I don't 5 know that they would be suitable third-party custodians 6 given the amount of time that this defendant is facing, 7 which is another change that we didn't have before. 8 defendant is facing a 15 year mandatory minimum. This 9 So when the defense says that there's no reason for 10 the defendant to run, 15 years in prison is a pretty good 11 reason for a defendant to run. The last thing I want to mention is that when the 12 13 defendant was on his medication, that's when he was engaged 14 in this behavior. 15 calls to the family, these harassing, threatening 16 intimidating phone calls. 17 boys. 18 That's when he was making these phone That's when he was grooming these He was a danger to the community when he was on his 19 medication. He fled the country when he was on his 20 medication. So the fact that the defendant should be 21 released so he should get on his medication, I don't believe 22 is sufficient enough. 23 And I said lastly, but I did want to mention the 24 concern about the defendant going with the father and 25 spending time volunteering at the church, that may sound Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 91 of 119 PageID #: 538 92 1 like a good idea, but what about when the defendant's father 2 is unavailable. 3 The defendant cannot be sitting near his father at all 4 times. 5 youth programs or do things that I hope the defendant would 6 not be allowed to be around, there are just too many 7 concerns and risks that the United States has and believes 8 that the defendant should remain detained pending trial for 9 all those reasons. 10 11 12 He's a pastor. THE COURT: When he has to go be involved with Okay. All right. I'm ready to announce my decision in this case. In order to continue to detain the defendant, I must 13 find that there are no conditions that will reasonably 14 secure the safety of another person or the community by 15 clear and convincing evidence, and I must find that he is a 16 serious risk of flight by a preponderance of the evidence. 17 I would like to start with something that jumped out 18 at me from the pretrial services report prepared on 19 August 11 of 2010 by the pretrial services office in Maine. 20 This was right after Mr. DeHart had gone to Mexico, 21 gone to Canada, French classes, enrolled in college, came 22 back to get his student visa and was arrested. 23 right after all those events. 24 25 This was And the pretrial services report, nevertheless, states that the probation office can fashion conditions that Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 92 of 119 PageID #: 539 93 1 minimize the defendant's risk of flight at that time. 2 And since that time, the Court has learned a whole lot 3 more background about why the defendant did what he did, why 4 he went to Mexico, what the thinking was in terms of Canada, 5 all of which he was not prohibited from doing at the time he 6 did it. No one told him he could not leave the United States 7 8 when he went to Mexico. No one told him he could not leave 9 the United States when his desperate parents are trying to 10 get him involved in something, get him on a different track 11 than he's on. The other investigation, the national security 12 13 investigation, the Court has learned much more about. 14 easily understand why this defendant was much more focused 15 on that investigation, much more afraid of that 16 investigation, which was propelling his actions at that 17 time. 18 He thought that the search for child pornography was 19 really a ruse to try to get the proof about his 20 extracurricular national security issues. 21 credible on that issue. 22 I can I found him very But looking at the factors I must look at in order to 23 make this decision, the nature and circumstances of the 24 offense, obviously child pornography charges are serious 25 offenses. Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 93 of 119 PageID #: 540 94 1 The government has substantial proof, however, in 2 terms of the weight of the evidence against the defendant. 3 I guess in the process of the last several weeks, I have 4 learned several aspects of this case which, in the Court's 5 mind, indicate the weight of the evidence is not as firm as 6 I thought it was when Mr. Kniss says he cannot really prove 7 that there weren't other little girls in Indiana who might 8 have been enticing these victims to send pictures; he can't 9 prove that, he says. 10 And other aspects of this case; I don't think I knew 11 that the 12 year old was unable to identify the defendant. 12 At any rate, they are very serious charges. 13 minimum mandatory is a very serious thing. 14 motivating factor for fleeing. 15 A 15 year It can be a However, when I look at all of the history and 16 characteristics that have to bear on this decision, Mr. 17 DeHart has no criminal record whatsoever. 18 he -- at my first hearing, I didn't really see that this 19 defendant had any ties in Indiana. 20 His family and This hearing has amplified those ties to the Court, 21 and I think that both his family and he have ties, 22 substantial ties, to the Indiana area where his parents 23 live, the support of the church and family members there. 24 25 He has really no financial resources except what his parents can provide or his other relatives, but we are much Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 94 of 119 PageID #: 541 95 1 further down the road than we were when he was getting his 2 grandmother to give him money to go to Mexico, and I feel 3 certain that none of the family members are going to be 4 giving him money to leave the country. 5 His passport has been surrendered. The proposal that 6 he live with his parents, be on electronic monitoring, and 7 basically go to work with one or the other of his parents 8 every day, be restricted to the residence otherwise unless 9 the probation office approves it seems like a reasonable 10 11 proposal to the Court. The probation office has ginned up the possible 12 conditions, special conditions. 13 ones by now. 14 I presume you have the new Based on the testimony that was heard this morning, I 15 was certainly going to add a condition that there be 16 absolutely no contact with the victims or potential victims 17 or their families in this case, and the probation office has 18 added that he's even precluded from any travel to or within 19 Williamson County, let alone all the contact. 20 The -- I have heard his father now testify twice. 21 heard his mother testify before. 22 court hearing. 23 get this defendant to court. 24 25 I They have been at every I have no reason to think that they will not They both have military backgrounds. They understand the meaning of following rules, and I feel that they will Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 95 of 119 PageID #: 542 96 1 insist that this defendant follow the rules. 2 we'll know about it anyway with all the special conditions 3 that can be imposed. 4 If he doesn't I feel that there are conditions that can reduce any 5 risk of flight. 6 serious risk of flight, and there certainly are conditions 7 that can reasonably secure the safety of other people and 8 the community. 9 10 11 I do not find at this point that he is a I certainly cannot find there are no conditions by clear and convincing evidence. This defendant has been incarcerated for 21 months 12 already. 13 and the pending other motions another lengthy continuance, 14 and for all these reasons I think that the conditions that 15 have been most recently presented to you -- there are 19 of 16 them -- will suffice to assure Mr. DeHart will come to court 17 when he's required to come to court. 18 those. 19 And we are now facing with the change of counsel I'm going to go over So I am going to release him on these conditions. The 20 conditions are -- I'm not going to read them word for word, 21 but the probation office will be going over these with Mr. 22 DeHart and his family -- report to Pretrial Services as 23 directed. 24 is any, must be preapproved. 25 any residence where minor children reside. All changes of residence or employment if there Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 He's not to reside in or visit He's not to Filed 06/06/12 Page 96 of 119 PageID #: 543 97 1 associate directly or indirectly with children who appear to 2 be under the age of 18. 3 where those children are. He's not to volunteer any places 4 He certainly -- the Probation Office will work out the 5 kind of volunteer activities he can do at the church, but he 6 is not to volunteer with youth groups or children's groups. 7 He can attend church as long as he's with his parents, but 8 he's not to have any contact with children there. 9 He's not to possess, view, listen to or go to 10 locations where any form of sexually stimulating material or 11 sexually oriented material is available. 12 He's not to possess or use a computer or any device 13 with access to any online computer service at any location 14 including any employment or volunteer activities without the 15 prior written approval of the Pretrial Services Office. 16 17 18 19 Don't get him an iPhone with internet access. Don't get him a cell phone at all is my advice to you. He'll be subject to a curfew, and his activities out of the residence will be restricted. 20 He's not to travel outside the Southern District of 21 Indiana except for court appearances, attorney visits and 22 without prior approval, and he's not to approval in 23 Williamson County at all. 24 25 He's to have no contact directly or indirectly with the victims or potential witnesses or families. Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 97 of 119 PageID #: 544 98 1 He will not apply for a passport. He's to refrain 2 from the use or possession of controlled substances. 3 would naturally exclude, Mr. Searcy, any prescribed 4 substances for his mental health conditions? MR. SEARCY: 5 6 That's correct, Your Honor. This Any prescribed medication would be exempted. THE COURT: 7 Okay. He's prohibited from 8 possessing firearms, dangerous weapons or other dangerous 9 devices regardless of whether or not he has a permit. 10 11 He's to notify Pretrial Services within 48 hours of any law enforcement contact. 12 He's to undergo polygraph examinations to monitor 13 compliance with conditions of pretrial release whenever they 14 want him to; come in and take a polygraph, he's got to go. 15 You got it? MR. MATTHEW DEHART: 16 17 18 Yes, ma'am. Yes, Your Honor. THE COURT: He's to permit the pretrial services 19 officers to visit him any time at his home or elsewhere 20 without advance notification, and he's to allow confiscation 21 of any contraband that is observed in plain view of the 22 pretrial services officer. 23 He's to participate in any mental health treatment 24 that the probation office wants him to participate in, and 25 he's to pay all or part of the cost if he has the financial Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 98 of 119 PageID #: 545 99 1 2 ability to do so or has insurance coverage. He's to refrain from the use or unlawful possession of 3 narcotics or other controlled substances unless prescribed 4 by a licensed medical practitioner. 5 method of testing for prohibited substances; anything they 6 want, including a sweat patch or anything else. 7 He's to submit to any And he's to participate in a program of inpatient or 8 outpatient substance abuse therapy and counseling if the 9 pretrial services office considers it necessary. 10 Those are pretty strict conditions, Mr. DeHart. 11 you can bet your bottom dollar that the government is going 12 to be watching you, and your slightest deviation or 13 violation of any of those conditions I'm sure will be 14 brought to my attention. 15 MR. MATTHEW DEHART: 16 THE COURT: And I understand, Your Honor. So that's going to be my order. So 17 let's move on to the other matters that we need to deal with 18 today. 19 We have a trial next Tuesday. Mr. Scruggs, you have 20 indicated we need to continue that. I'm sure -- well, the 21 government couldn't try it next week anyway, right, you had 22 a problem -- 23 MS. DAUGHTREY: 24 THE COURT: 25 No, Your Honor. -- with that? And you are requesting a continuance of how long? Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 99 of 119 PageID #: 546 100 MR. SCRUGGS: 1 2 think. THE COURT: 3 4 Six months to be safe, I would Is that all right with the government? 5 MS. DAUGHTREY: 6 MR. SCRUGGS: Yes, Your Honor. The other thing I would bring to 7 the Court's attention, yesterday I filed a motion to 8 suppression -THE COURT: 9 Yes, I saw it. MR. SCRUGGS: 10 -- and that was a bare-boned motion 11 to suppress that I need to amend, so I ask the Court not to 12 set that for a hearing for a while until I amend it. THE COURT: 13 14 minute. 15 is jammed. 16 We'll talk about that in just a Let's figure out a trial date. Well, my December I'm going to have to set it either the week before 17 Thanksgiving or preferably the week after Thanksgiving. 18 could perhaps do it on December 4th, so November 27 or 19 December 4. 20 MR. SCRUGGS: 21 THE COURT: 22 MR. SCRUGGS: 23 November 27 is fine for me. That's better than December 4? I have another trial set in state court. THE COURT: 24 25 I Okay. What's the estimated trial time here? Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 100 of 119 PageID #: 547 101 MS. DAUGHTREY: 1 2 Yes, Your Honor. I'm just looking at those dates. 3 THE COURT: Okay. 4 MS. DAUGHTREY: Your Honor, I would expect it 5 will be probably three days at the most for the government, 6 so -- I really don't even think it will be that long. MR. SCRUGGS: 7 Mine will probably be two days 8 because one day just with my expert and any other possible 9 witnesses that I have. THE COURT: 10 I don't think your expert is going to 11 take the whole day. That would surprise me. 12 count on four or five days. MS. DAUGHTREY: 13 Well, we'll Your Honor, and just looking at 14 the calendar and talking, the better date for the government 15 is December 4 rather than the 27th. 16 whatever what Mr. Scruggs trial date was. 17 THE COURT: 18 MR. SCRUGGS: 19 He says he had a trial on the 4th? THE COURT: You are pretty sure it's going to go to trial? 22 MR. SCRUGGS: 23 THE COURT: 24 25 It's on the 3rd, but it would last most of that week. 20 21 I didn't hear Yes. We probably shouldn't set it the 27th because it might go over into that next week. MR. SCRUGGS: Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 If that's the case, then obviously Filed 06/06/12 Page 101 of 119 PageID #: 548 102 1 if I'm tied up here, that will bump that. 2 would have no choice then at that point in time to bump it. 3 He's not going to overrule you. 4 THE COURT: 5 6 7 So the judge The 27th doesn't work for one or both of you? MS. DAUGHTREY: All right. We'll make it work, Your Honor. 8 THE COURT: Okay. 9 MS. DAUGHTREY: All right. It's the Thanksgiving before, and 10 I know that Detective Kniss may not be easily available that 11 week before, and I know that Ms. Ingram has family that 12 lives out of town. 13 and getting prepared when I fully expect -- I know Detective 14 Kniss's family is in Wyoming. 15 16 17 And that was my concern is getting ready THE COURT: So you might have to just bump up your preparation for the week before or something. MR. SCRUGGS: Judge, if you issue an order saying 18 that I have a trial December 4 and I take that to the state 19 judge, he's probably going to continue that trial. 20 21 22 23 24 25 THE COURT: Well, let's do it December 4 then and not make everybody's life miserable over Thanksgiving. MS. DAUGHTREY: That would be great. Thank you, Your Honor. THE COURT: Okay. All right. We'll set it December 4. Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 102 of 119 PageID #: 549 103 1 2 Mr. DeHart, you know that you have speedy trial rights which you have waived many times. 3 MR. MATTHEW DEHART: 4 THE COURT: Yes, Your Honor. And you have new counsel, and you 5 have discovery issues and other motion issues. 6 agreeable to rescheduling your trial for December 4? 7 MR. MATTHEW DEHART: 8 THE COURT: 9 I guess we'll have you -- do you have a waiver form? MR. SCRUGGS: 11 THE COURT: 13 I'm agreeable to that. All right. 10 12 Are you Not with me. Maybe we can pull off a waiver form and get you to sign it. Okay. December 4, all right. Now, we do have a motion to suppress. It's really on 14 the adequacy of the warrant, but you are raising Franks 15 issues which would require a hearing, and so why don't you 16 tell me by when can you supplement your motion and then 17 we'll figure out when the government will respond and when 18 we'll set a hearing? 19 MR. SCRUGGS: I can supplement it within 30 days 20 provided that I get the report from Indiana with regard to 21 the process the agent engaged in there in basically 22 unlocking his computer, the gateway, and which portions of 23 the hard drives he had access to at which particular times. 24 So I'm still waiting on those reports or that 25 information, and I don't know if that's ever going to be Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 103 of 119 PageID #: 550 104 1 2 3 available or not. I'll say if I can get the information I have asked for, I can have a supplement within 30 days. MS. DAUGHTREY: 4 Your Honor, evidently -- as you 5 know, I have had a lot of issues in my family over the last 6 month and a half -- 7 THE COURT: 8 MS. DAUGHTREY: 9 10 11 Yeah. -- and Detective Kniss tells me that he has sent me an e-mail that has Detective Hill's report. It's not much of anything, from what I understand, but 12 I will go find it and make sure that Mr. Scruggs gets it 13 right away, and I apologize to the Court and to Mr. Scruggs. 14 I didn't realize that it was there. THE COURT: 15 16 anything? MS. DAUGHTREY: 17 18 What do you mean it's not much of process that he used to co-mingle the -- 19 MR. KNISS: 20 MS. DAUGHTREY: 21 24 25 The hard drive. -- the hard drive, yeah. There's a technical thing -- do you want to explain? 22 23 It's a paragraph describing the THE COURT: Why don't you come to the podium, MR. KNISS: Your Honor, Agent Hill, up in Detective? Indiana, I'm familiar with the process that he used to Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 104 of 119 PageID #: 551 105 1 co-mingle two hard drives together to make it appear as one. 2 The laptop that was seized -THE COURT: 3 4 something the defendant did? MR. KNISS: 5 6 This is something the agent did or Actually, it's part of the laptop, the way it's set up from the manufacturer. 7 THE COURT: Oh. 8 MR. KNISS: It's called a raid, two hard drives 9 have information on both hard drives that are commingled 10 together to make it appear as one hard drive, one larger 11 hard drive. 12 And it's mostly done in gaming laptops as we have 13 seized in this case. 14 times in games. 15 It's for faster speeds and quicker What the agent has done is taken both hard drives, 16 made a mirror image of them, and using the software, he's 17 able to take both images of the hard drives and make it as 18 one in this forensic software that we utilize. 19 What I have received from Agent Hill in Indiana is 20 just a brief paragraph describing the process that we use in 21 the forensics software to make these two hard drives appear 22 as one for analysis. 23 24 25 THE COURT: So that your speed of analysis can be MR. KNISS: Well, in the laptop, it's rated -- quicker? Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 105 of 119 PageID #: 552 106 1 it's commingled together for faster speeds, but when you 2 take it out, we have two hard drives, you can't examine one 3 with -- because part of the information is on one and part 4 of the information is on the other. 5 THE COURT: I see. 6 MR. KNISS: So we're combining the two as one so 7 we can analyze the data on it. 8 THE COURT: 9 MR. SCRUGGS: 10 Okay. Does that help you? This is the question that I have. Were any portions of these hard drives encrypted? 11 MR. KNISS: No. 12 MR. SCRUGGS: That's the million dollar question 13 right there because it's my understanding that my client 14 gave passwords to the folks in Maine that may have allowed 15 them access to that, but I don't -- like I said, if none of 16 it was encrypted, then that should not we be a problem as 17 far as supplementing the motion. 18 THE COURT: 19 Okay. that paragraph? 20 MS. DAUGHTREY: 21 THE COURT: 22 So you are going to get him Yes. And then you are going to be able to supplement your motion by? 23 MR. SCRUGGS: 24 THE COURT: 25 MR. SCRUGGS: Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Within 30 days. By June 22nd. Absolutely. Filed 06/06/12 Page 106 of 119 PageID #: 553 107 THE COURT: 1 2 by June 22nd. 3 response? All right. And how long does the government want for a MS. DAUGHTREY: 4 Defendant will supplement Your Honor, if we could have four 5 weeks that would be great. 6 time during that period, and I have reason to believe that 7 Detective Kniss may be a little more difficult to touch base 8 with at that point in time. THE COURT: 9 Okay. 10 MS. DAUGHTREY: 11 THE COURT: 12 pick a hearing date. July 23 for your response? That sounds great. Okay. All right. Thank you. And maybe we can Friday, September 21st? 13 MR. SCRUGGS: 14 THE COURT: 15 MS. DAUGHTREY: 16 I know I have got some vacation That's fine for me. Does that work for you? Yes, Your Honor, that works for the government. 17 THE COURT: All right. 18 10:00 on Friday, September 21st. 19 MR. SCRUGGS: 20 THE COURT: Let's set that at You say 10:00? September 21st at 10:00. Now, do I 21 take it that the issues on the motion to compel are 22 resolved? 23 MR. SCRUGGS: With the exception of is the 24 government going to let us produce a mirror image of all of 25 the hard drives media or just the ones that don't have Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 107 of 119 PageID #: 554 108 1 consider CP on them? 2 made. 3 I don't know if that's a decision they MS. DAUGHTREY: Your Honor, that was something we 4 opposed from the get-go, and I understand from Detective 5 Kniss that it's not difficult to examine a drive that has 6 child pornography on it. 7 We have always said we would be willing to give them a 8 copy of other drives that are appropriate, and I know that 9 the defense expert went and visited with Detective Kniss on 10 one day, set up a meeting for another time, and then just 11 out of the blue canceled it, so he's not making an evident 12 at this point to examine this computer in government 13 facilities at this point. 14 15 16 THE COURT: Did you know he canceled an appointment? MR. SCRUGGS: Yes, and the reason for that was we 17 needed a ruling or some kind of position with regard to 18 whether we were going to be provided with a copy of all 19 these items as opposed to just the ones that were non-CP. 20 As the Court will recall, Mr. Kempvanee testified at 21 length regarding the difficulty of bringing his equipment 22 over to their office to do this, and he wanted to try to do 23 it all at one time. 24 25 I did send an e-mail to Ms. Daughtrey back on May 3rd to which interest was no response requesting a decision on Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 108 of 119 PageID #: 555 109 1 2 that. And to my understanding, when Mr. Kempvanee met with 3 Detective Kniss, Detective Kniss didn't have a problem with 4 allowing him to copy off all because Mr. Kambani showed him 5 his procedure for deleting all the CP images from the mirror 6 images of those hard drives. 7 That could be done, and it wasn't that difficult to 8 do, but obviously it's not his decision; it's Ms. 9 Daughtrey's decision. 10 THE COURT: I think there hasn't been enough 11 communication, so I'm not willing to make a ruling on this. 12 I want you all to work some more together on this. 13 sounds like there might be some -- I think there's room for 14 you all to figure this out. 15 you that I have spoken with Detective Kniss. 16 understanding, there is no way that he can guarantee that 17 there's no child pornography that leaves the government's 18 facility through this particular program which is untested 19 and, you know, hasn't been peer reviewed at all that 20 Mr. Kempvanee is offering of. 21 Yes, Your Honor. It I will tell And from my And my understanding from Detective Kniss is that he 22 did not agree that he had no problem with it at all. 23 think they just discussed it, and he was prepared to make 24 this equipment available. 25 I He's done that in the past without any problems at all Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 109 of 119 PageID #: 556 110 1 on a number of occasions, and that's where we left it. 2 don't know where this misinformation is coming from so. MR. SCRUGGS: 3 I Well, that was what -- and, again, 4 I have another e-mail to Detective Kniss from Mr. Kempvanee 5 that basically reiterates all of that. 6 to the Court? 7 THE COURT: 8 MR. SCRUGGS: 9 10 11 Could I submit these Sure. There's another e-mail that I want the Court to see as well to which there has been no response to either one of those. I guess in terms of the cost associated with having 12 Mr. Kambani go over there and bring his equipment over 13 there, it's going to be much greater to do it that way than 14 it would be to do it the way in which Mr. Kempvanee 15 described as far as making these mirror images but deleting 16 all the CP from there. 17 I don't think there's anybody that could ever 18 absolutely guarantee there may not be an image somehow 19 buried within these hard drives, but if the Court will 20 recall, Mr. Kempvanee gave very specific detail about how he 21 could make sure that none of this ever left his office and 22 that it would go back to the government, be destroyed or 23 whatever. 24 And, you know, if the Court needs to have another 25 hearing on all this, we could do that, or if the Court wants Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 110 of 119 PageID #: 557 111 1 to make a ruling based upon the testimony that its already 2 heard -- 3 THE COURT: 4 (Pause.) 5 THE COURT: 6 7 Let me look at these e-mails. What is the comparative cost? said that you were going to prepare a comparative cost. MR. SCRUGGS: He's not done that yet, Judge. 8 basically trying to make the best of what we pay him. 9 think you can understand because he's very expensive. 10 You I'm I And I just know that from talking to him, it's going 11 to be much more for him to go over there and bring his 12 equipment than it would be to be at -- to have it all done 13 at his place. 14 MS. DAUGHTREY: Your Honor, I'm getting a 15 completely different -- and if we're going to start into 16 argument, I really feel like I need to put Detective Kniss 17 on the stand because my understanding is although it might 18 be somewhat slower, that he, one, wouldn't have to leave his 19 equipment there; and, two, that it's just the difference 20 between how fast a desktop can run versus how fast a 21 forensic laptop can run. 22 And I'm certain that if Mr. Kempvanee has this 23 elaborate wonderful lab, that he probably has a pretty power 24 full laptop that he can use. 25 He's been talking about in his testimony -- and that Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 111 of 119 PageID #: 558 112 1 is testimony too that I would like to get transcribed and 2 have Detective Kniss review, but he talked about all this 3 equipment that he needed. 4 And the equipment that's needed for forensic analysis 5 is simply a very expensive software program, either Encase 6 or FTK, but it's not something that -- you know, these are 7 going to be hard drives that he can hook up to his computer 8 and unhook when he's ready to go home, and there's nothing 9 that -- there's nothing that's left on those hard drives 10 11 that would show what he was doing. And he would be permitted to copy anything other than 12 the child pornography that's on those hard drives, any of 13 the index files, or data files, or whatever, that are there. 14 But that is the clearest way to ensure, and it just 15 doesn't sound to me, and I have talked to Detective Kniss 16 about it, that that's going to be any kind of onerous 17 problem for him. 18 We've offered for him to come to any place that's 19 convenient. I assume coming to the FBI, which is over off 20 Elm Hill, or coming to the U.S. Attorney's Office is 21 preferable to him, but he could also go down to Franklin and 22 do the work down there. 23 MR. SCRUGGS: Judge, I would simply -- I would 24 ask to have another hearing to where we could flesh all this 25 out because I do think apparently we're hearing two Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 112 of 119 PageID #: 559 113 1 different things from our people. 2 And I would ask that if the Court would consider maybe 3 give us one more hearing so that the Court could simply rule 4 on this issue from a fully informed position as far as what 5 the parties feel about this. MS. DAUGHTREY: 6 I would also just like to add one 7 thing, if I could, to this e-mail, which I had not seen and 8 had not responded to, and I apologize to the defense for 9 that. 10 I think I have been clear from the get-go that the 11 government is opposed to anything that has child pornography 12 going into the hands of the defense because of the inability 13 to guarantee that it's -- that there's not child pornography 14 there, and really that's in compliance with the law, the 18 15 U.S.C. 3509(m). 16 There's a statement here that Mr. Scruggs has made 17 orally and also in this e-mail where he states that, "It's 18 my understanding that Agent Kniss has seen Mr. Kempvanee's 19 process for redaction and is not opposed to utilizing this 20 to provide copies first, I want to make note that Agent 21 Kniss -- if you're considering this at this moment, Agent 22 Kniss did not see the process. 23 process, from what I understand. Agent Kniss heard about the 24 And I think it's clear from his other e-mail that he 25 is not agreeing that he has no problem with it, but rather Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 113 of 119 PageID #: 560 114 1 that he's deferring to my decision about whether or not the 2 child pornography hard drives can go into the defense 3 possession. 4 I would also just note for the Court that although we 5 have offered to provide copies of other evidence, we have 6 not ever received any hard drives in order to copy that 7 stuff over to it except for the one that Ms. Hodde provided, 8 which has everything on it, and I think there was some 9 discussion about doing another one with Mr. Kempvanee -- 10 Vancampe, Kempvanee, when we were here in court after his 11 testimony that there would be another hard drive provided to 12 us for us to at least go ahead and provide him with copies 13 of the other items that are not problematic, so I would just 14 note that for the Court. 15 THE COURT: Do you have her provided another -- 16 MR. SCRUGGS: Judge, Mr. Kempvanee advised he 17 would rather go ahead and provide them with the hard drives, 18 blank ones I guess, to get everything at once, so he could 19 view everything at once because a lot of this stuff is 20 interrelated, is what I understand. THE COURT: 21 Okay. How soon do you want to have 22 this hearing? 23 going to be a very long transcript of his testimony from 24 whenever? 25 You want to get the transcript? MS. DAUGHTREY: Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 That's not I think it's from Ms. Cole. Filed 06/06/12 Page 114 of 119 PageID #: 561 115 THE COURT: 1 2 MS. DAUGHTREY: Okay. And it wasn't very long. I do not have the court reporter for that date. THE COURT: 5 6 show who it is. 7 orders, apparently. 8 transcript right now. Let's see. April 20? The docket sheet will Ms. Cole, you have your marching The government is ordering the MS. DAUGHTREY: 9 10 It was April 20. April 20 is when he testified. 3 4 Let's see. I will be ordering the transcript, yes. 11 MR. SCRUGGS: 12 THE COURT: 13 let's see. 14 respond to that. 15 hearing by June 6th? And I'll take a copy. And he'll take a copy, okay. Then you want Detective Kniss to be able to Let's see. MS. DAUGHTREY: 16 So, Could we be ready for that Your Honor, my understanding is 17 Detective Kniss will not be here on the 6th, but would be 18 here the following day. 19 THE COURT: 20 MS. DAUGHTREY: 21 THE COURT: 22 23 24 25 day. The 7th? Yes. I could do it in the morning that Mr. Scruggs, does that work for you? MR. SCRUGGS: I have to move some things around, but I can do that. THE COURT: Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Okay. 9:00 on the morning of Filed 06/06/12 Page 115 of 119 PageID #: 562 116 1 June 7th will be the further hearing on the motion to 2 compel in this case. MR. SCRUGGS: 3 It shouldn't take more than an hour 4 and a half, two hours you think? 5 THE COURT: 6 MR. SCRUGGS: 7 I have back to 11:00. 8 THE COURT: 9 I wouldn't think so. Okay. I was going to push the other thing I don't know. A couple of hours sounds like it would be sufficient to me. MS. DAUGHTREY: 10 I can't imagine it unless 11 Mr. Kempvanee is planning on testifying again, then I don't 12 know. 13 THE COURT: 14 MR. SCRUGGS: 15 Right, he would in rebuttal, absolutely. THE COURT: 16 17 In rebuttal? You are the one that has a problem, so -- 18 MR. SCRUGGS: 19 THE COURT: We'll make it quick. -- you be cogent and concise. These 20 e-mails, do you want me to just keep these for further 21 background? 22 MR. SCRUGGS: 23 THE COURT: 24 25 Just keep them. Is that all right with the government? MS. DAUGHTREY: Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Yes, Your Honor, that's fine. Filed 06/06/12 Page 116 of 119 PageID #: 563 117 THE COURT: 1 2 3 4 These two e-mails, I'll keep these as background on the motion to compel. All right. Is there anything else on this case? let's have Mr. DeHart sign that waiver. MR. SCRUGGS: 5 Yes, Thank you. My understanding, Judge, is that 6 all the items from Maine are on the way, is that correct, 7 from Washington? MS. DAUGHTREY: 8 9 We have all the electronic items. I don't know the status of the nonelectronic items. The -- 10 Special Agent John McMurtry is out of town this week, and so 11 I'm not exactly sure what it is that's in there. 12 I know Detective Kniss is planning on starting this 13 week with review of some of the evidentiary issues just to 14 make sure -- or, excuse me, electronic evidence to make sure 15 there's no contraband on those. 16 THE COURT: 17 MR. SCRUGGS: 18 So that means we would have access maybe at the end of next week possibly? THE COURT: 19 20 Okay. Could we put this on the top of your list please, everybody's list? 21 MR. KNISS: 22 MS. DAUGHTREY: 23 THE COURT: 24 25 Yes, Your Honor. Yes. This case has been bumping along way too long. MS. DAUGHTREY: Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Yes. Filed 06/06/12 Page 117 of 119 PageID #: 564 118 THE COURT: 1 2 3 4 Okay. And I will get the Order for release. Mr. Searcy, how should we handle this? He's going to go down with you or what -MR. SEARCY: 5 Please the Court, I believe that 6 the -- once Mr. DeHart returns to the Marshals lockup, if 7 his parents will be able to bring some street clothes, they 8 can have him change over into street clothes and then come 9 over to our office for the installation of the GPS unit. THE COURT: 10 11 All right. Okay. All right. Anything else? We're in recess. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 118 of 119 PageID #: 565 119 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE 1 2 I, BEVERLY E. "BECKY" COLE, Official Court 3 4 Reporter for the United States District Court for the Middle 5 District of Tennessee, with offices at Nashville, do hereby 6 certify: 7 That I reported on the stenotype shorthand machine 8 the proceedings held in open court on May 22, 2012 in the 9 matter of UNITED STATES OF AMERICA vs. MATTHEW PAUL DEHART, 10 11 12 13 Case No. 3:10-00250; That a transcript of proceedings in connection with the hearing was reduced to typewritten form by me; That the foregoing transcript is a true and 14 accurate record of the proceedings to the best of my skills 15 and abilities; 16 This the 5th day of June, 2012. 17 18 19 20 /s/ BEVERLY E. COLE, RPR 21 22 23 24 25 Case 3:10-cr-00250 Document 105 Filed 06/06/12 Page 119 of 119 PageID #: 566