1 ^L 2 594 3 4 5 6 7 8 1 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR 9 10 2 THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF LOUISIANA 11 12 3 NEW ORLEANS 13 14 4 15 DAVID, ET AL, * Case No. 08-1220 "E" 16 5 * 17 Plaintiffs, * 18 6 * 19 v. * January 16, 2015 20 7 * 21 SIGNAL INTERNATIONAL, * 22 8 * 23 Defendants. * Daily Copy Transcript 24 9 25 26 10 27 28 11 29 DAY 5 30 12 MORNING SESSION 31 32 13 TRANSCRIPT OF THE TRIAL PROCEEDINGS 33 BEFORE THE HONORABLE SUSIE MORGAN, 34 14 UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE, 35 AND A JURY. 36 15 37 38 16 39 40 17 41 42 18 43 44 19 45 46 20 47 48 21 REPORTED BY: 49 50 22 MARY V. THOMPSON, RMR, FCRR 51 Official Court Reporter 52 23 HB 273 53 500 Poydras Street 54 24 New Orleans, Louisiana 70130 55 (504)589-7783 56 25 mary_v_thompson@laed.uscourts.gov 57 58 59 60 61 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 62 ^L 63 595 64 65 66 67 68 69 1 APPEARANCES: 70 71 2 72 73 3 For Plaintiffs: ALAN HOWARD, ESQ. 74 HUGH D. SANDLER, ESQ. 75 4 Crowell & Moring, LLP 76 590 Madison Avenue 77 5 New York, NY 10022 78 212.803.4021 79 6 80 DANIEL WERNER, ESQ. 81 7 NAOMI TSU, ESQ. 82 MELIA AMAL BOUHABIB, ESQ. 83 8 Southern Poverty Law Center 84 Immigrant Justice Project 85 9 233 Peachtree Street NE 86 Atlanta, GA 30303 87 10 404.521.6700 88 89 11 CHANDRA S. BHATNAGAR, ESQ. 90 American Civil Liberties Union 91 12 Foundation (New York/Broad) 92 125 Broad Street, 18th Floor 93 13 New York, NY 10004 94 95 14 96 97 15 For Signal Entities: ERIN CASEY HANGARTNER, ESQ. 98 ELHAM RABBANI, ESQ, 99 16 HAL UNGAR, ESQ. 100 BRIAN ROUX, ESQ. 101 17 Hangartner Rydberg & Terrell 102 One Shell Square 103 18 701 Poydras Street 104 Suite 310 105 19 New Orleans, LA 70139 106 107 20 PATRICIA BOLLMAN, ESQ. 108 Patricia Bollman, APLC 109 21 P.O. Box 13707 110 New Orleans, LA 70185 111 22 112 113 23 114 115 24 116 117 25 118 119 120 121 122 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 123 ^L 124 596 125 126 127 128 129 130 1 For Sachin Dewan: STEPHEN SHAPIRO, ESQ. 131 Law Office of Stephen Shapiro 132 2 700 Camp Street 133 New Orleans, LA 70130 134 3 135 136 4 For Malvern Burnett: TIM CERNIGLIA, ESQ. 137 Law Office of Tim Cerniglia 138 5 1521 St. Charles Avenue 139 New Orleans, LA 70130 140 6 141 142 7 143 144 8 145 146 9 147 148 10 149 150 11 151 152 12 153 154 13 155 156 14 157 158 15 159 160 16 161 162 17 163 164 18 165 166 19 167 168 20 169 170 21 171 172 22 173 174 23 175 176 24 177 178 25 179 180 181 182 183 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 184 ^L 185 597 186 187 188 189 190 191 1 EXAMINATION INDEX 192 193 2 PAGE NO. 194 195 3 PLAINTIFFS WITNESS 196 197 4 198 JACOB JOSEPH KADAKKARAPPALLY 199 5 200 201 6 202 Continued Direct Examination by Mr. Tsu.... 610 203 7 204 205 8 206 207 9 208 209 10 210 211 11 212 213 12 214 215 13 216 217 14 218 219 15 220 221 16 222 223 17 224 225 18 226 227 19 228 229 20 230 231 21 232 233 22 234 235 23 236 237 24 238 239 25 240 241 242 243 244 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 245 ^L 246 598 247 248 249 250 251 252 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 253 254 2 (Call to order of the court.) 255 256 3 THE COURT: All right. I think y'all had a couple 257 258 4 of matters you wanted to talk about before the jury came in. 259 260 5 MR. BHATNAGAR: Morning, Your Honor. 261 262 6 THE COURT: Good morning. 263 264 7 MR. BHATNAGAR: Two quick housekeeping matters. 265 266 8 Firstly, with regard to deposition designations, we 267 268 9 have ready to go today, two designations, and we'll have a 269 270 10 couple more ready by the afternoon, if necessary. 271 272 11 What we had envisioned was having paper copies of 273 274 12 the passages that were going to be read in, which would be 275 276 13 available for all parties, as well as for the Court, and then 277 278 14 have the reader appear and the witness also have a copy. 279 280 15 And if that's accords with the Court's preference, 281 282 16 we can proceed with that as kind of the choreography of it. 283 284 17 THE COURT: Well, who is going to read it? And is 285 286 18 one person reading the whole thing, you know, as far as the 287 288 19 lawyer? 289 290 20 MR. BHATNAGAR: That's actually where we're seeking 291 292 21 guidance. We're amenable to have -- to whatever the Court's 293 294 22 preference would be regarding who the reader is. 295 296 23 We have a professional witness who will just sit 297 298 24 there and provide the answers, but whatever Your Honor will 299 300 25 prefer with regard to the reader. 301 302 303 304 305 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 306 ^L 307 599 308 309 310 311 312 313 1 MS. HANGARTNER: Who is the professional witness? 314 315 2 MR. BHATNAGAR: It's like me -- a person like me, 316 317 3 nonparty like. An actor reader. 318 319 4 THE COURT: An actor. 320 321 5 MR. BHATNAGAR: Actor. 322 323 6 MR. HOWARD: Your Honor, if I can add. 324 325 7 The first one, Mr. Buford, I think it would be very 326 327 8 easy for the plaintiffs' attorney to get up and read all of 328 329 9 our designations, because then Signal's designations come 330 331 10 after it, there are no interruptions sequentially. 332 333 11 THE COURT: Does Signal agree to that? 334 335 12 MR. HOWARD: That is Mr. Buford. 336 337 13 So it's actually their examination on redirect of 338 339 14 the witness at the depo. 340 341 15 MS. HANGARTNER: So it's separated? 342 343 16 MR. HOWARD: It is separated. 344 345 17 MS. HANGARTNER: I have no problem with that. 346 347 18 THE COURT: That one person would read all the 348 349 19 questions? 350 351 20 MR. HOWARD: No, no, no. 352 353 21 MS. HANGARTNER: For Buford, I think what we're 354 355 22 agreeing on is that since it's separate -- in other words, 356 357 23 they designated what they took and then we designated ours on 358 359 24 redirect -- we can split that one. 360 361 25 THE COURT: Who will read for the plaintiffs -- who 362 363 364 365 366 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 367 ^L 368 600 369 370 371 372 373 374 1 will ask the questions? 375 376 2 MR. HOWARD: Either Mr. Werner or myself. 377 378 3 THE COURT: Okay. And then so you have the first 379 380 4 part and then it switches, and Signal has the last part, and 381 382 5 there's no back-and-forth? 383 384 6 MR. HOWARD: Correct. 385 386 7 MS. HANGARTNER: Yes, Judge. 387 388 8 THE COURT: Then that's easy. 389 390 9 MR. HOWARD: That one's the easy one. 391 392 10 THE COURT: Who is next? 393 394 11 MR. HOWARD: Then I think the next witness is 395 396 12 Mr. Rigolo. And how is that? Is that intermixed? 397 398 13 MS. HANGARTNER: That is intermixed. 399 400 14 MR. BHATNAGAR: That more intermixed. 401 402 15 MR. HOWARD: I don't have a problem trying in this 403 404 16 case for us to just read it, but... 405 406 17 MS. HANGARTNER: I mean, I think that makes the 407 408 18 most sense because, again, you're asking the questions from 409 410 19 one angle, and then, if it was me, I would be asking from 411 412 20 another angle. 413 414 21 MR. HOWARD: Correct. So it was a plaintiffs' 415 416 22 lawyer asking all the questions that have been designated by 417 418 23 the parties. 419 420 24 MS. HANGARTNER: It was actually Hugh. 421 422 25 MR. HOWARD: Correct. 423 424 425 426 427 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 428 ^L 429 601 430 431 432 433 434 435 1 THE COURT: So you are agreeing that Hugh would ask 436 437 2 all of the questions? 438 439 3 MS. HANGARTNER: Yes. I think that would be the 440 441 4 most logical and less confusing for the jury. 442 443 5 THE COURT: So just one person asks the question? 444 445 6 MR. HOWARD: Correct. 446 447 7 MS. HANGARTNER: Because I don't think we did 448 449 8 any - 450 451 9 MR. HOWARD: Redirect. 452 453 10 MS. HANGARTNER: No, we didn't. 454 455 11 THE COURT: All right. So that's fine. We've 456 457 12 gotten through the first two. And then you all think about 458 459 13 who the next one is and what we need to do. 460 461 14 MR. BHATNAGAR: Secondly, with regard to the 462 463 15 designations, Your Honor, we have a general agreement among 464 465 16 all parties regarding which witnesses will be utilized in 466 467 17 which cases. 468 469 18 And so there are about seven designations in 470 471 19 plaintiffs' case in chief. And then there is additional 472 473 20 designations in Signal's, and then in Mr. Burnett's and 474 475 21 Mr. Dewan's. 476 477 22 So we have maybe one or two witnesses that the 478 479 23 parties are still trying to finalize, but once we've done 480 481 24 that, we'll provide for the Court kind of a bit of an outline 482 483 25 so that it is clear, and yourself and everyone else will be 484 485 486 487 488 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 489 ^L 490 602 491 492 493 494 495 496 1 able to have some understanding of where the witnesses will 497 498 2 be coming in. 499 500 3 THE COURT: And then have you all talked about how 501 502 4 the time will be charged for reading the depositions today, 503 504 5 Mr. Buford and Mr. Rigolo? 505 506 6 MR. HOWARD: I'm fine with charging the time to the 507 508 7 plaintiffs. It's mostly our designations for these two 509 510 8 witnesses. 511 512 9 THE COURT: Then how about Mr. Rigolo? 513 514 10 MR. HOWARD: I think - 515 516 11 MS. HANGARTNER: Same. 517 518 12 MR. BHATNAGAR: For Mr. Rigolo as well. 519 520 13 MS. HANGARTNER: It's Michael Pol who is going to 521 522 14 be the big issue. 523 524 15 THE COURT: So we know we're going to charge the 525 526 16 first two depositions all to the plaintiff. So that's good. 527 528 17 That's easy. 529 530 18 MR. HOWARD: Easy. 531 532 19 MR. BHATNAGAR: The third issue, Your Honor, that 533 534 20 we would like to bring to the Court's attention is a proposal 535 536 21 to allow for a one-sentence kind of description involving the 537 538 22 title of the witness so that the jury has some understanding 539 540 23 as to -- and it would be a sentence that all parties would 541 542 24 agree on, but it would be, you know, Tom Rigolo is the senior 543 544 25 vice-president of operations at Signal; runs the Texas 545 546 547 548 549 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 550 ^L 551 603 552 553 554 555 556 557 1 facility. Something that's noncontroversial that would give 558 559 2 the jury some context as to who they are hearing. 560 561 3 THE COURT: All right. So will you have that 562 563 4 ready? 564 565 5 MR. BHATNAGAR: We will. We will. 566 567 6 THE COURT: Will the questioner read that or do you 568 569 7 want me to do it? 570 571 8 MR. BHATNAGAR: If Your Honor doesn't mind reading 572 573 9 it - 574 575 10 THE COURT: I would be happy to if you'd just make 576 577 11 sure I have it. And I've got the instructions about -- I can 578 579 12 do that at the same time as I tell them what a deposition is. 580 581 13 MR. BHATNAGAR: Very good. 582 583 14 On another note, on Tuesday plaintiffs will be 584 585 15 calling a fact witness, Sabulal Vijayan, who is the 586 587 16 individual who was referred to earlier that had the suicide 588 589 17 attempt on March 9th. And plaintiffs are offering 590 591 18 Mr. Vijayan to speak to the conditions at Signal and the 592 593 19 events of the week of March 9th and the day of March 9th. 594 595 20 And it has come to our attention that Signal is at 596 597 21 least considering using demonstratives, and we haven't had a 598 599 22 chance to see the demonstratives yet so we are reserving 600 601 23 judgment on those. But we simply wanted to -- because I'll 602 603 24 be preparing him over the weekend and he is going to be up 604 605 25 first on Tuesday, it was just our hope that we could get 606 607 608 609 610 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 611 ^L 612 604 613 614 615 616 617 618 1 agreements from all parties and guidance from the Court 619 620 2 regarding the scope of the cross-examination that Mr. Vijayan 621 622 3 would be facing, and we wouldn't be going into his 623 624 4 recruitment, and we wouldn't be going into any other 625 626 5 tangential issues. It is really hearing about what happened 627 628 6 at Signal and the week of March 9th. 629 630 7 So that was the other issue I wanted to raise. 631 632 8 MR. UNGAR: Hal Ungar for Signal. 633 634 9 That's Signal's understanding as well, Your Honor. 635 636 10 If we proceed to use a demonstrative with the witness on 637 638 11 Tuesday, I can provide that to counsel at the end of today. 639 640 12 MR. BHATNAGAR: Sure. 641 642 13 THE COURT: And y'all agree to the scope of his 643 644 14 testimony? 645 646 15 MR. UNGAR: Absolutely. 647 648 16 THE COURT: Which is about March 9th? 649 650 17 MR. BHATNAGAR: Which is about the conditions of 651 652 18 Signal, number one. And then, number two, the events of the 653 654 19 week and day of March 9th. 655 656 20 THE COURT: All right. And Signal agrees to that 657 658 21 scope? 659 660 22 MR. UNGAR: Yes. 661 662 23 THE COURT: All right. And Signal will provide its 663 664 24 demonstratives to the plaintiffs and the other defendants 665 666 25 today? 667 668 669 670 671 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 672 ^L 673 605 674 675 676 677 678 679 1 MR. UNGAR: Yes, Your Honor. We've been doing that 680 681 2 several days in advance of the witnesses, and will continue 682 683 3 to do that as long as we are informed when the witnesses 684 685 4 come. 686 687 5 MR. BHATNAGAR: And, Your Honor, only because it's 688 689 6 a three-day weekend and I just wanted to make sure I could 690 691 7 prepare my client appropriately. That's the only reason why 692 693 8 we're raising it. 694 695 9 THE COURT: So you wanted to be sure you knew what 696 697 10 the scope of the testimony was? 698 699 11 MR. BHATNAGAR: Yes, Your Honor. 700 701 12 THE COURT: And what the demonstratives would be. 702 703 13 So the lineup now is Mr. Jacob. Then who is next? 704 705 14 MR. BHATNAGAR: Then we have the deposition 706 707 15 designation for Mr. Buford. And then Mr. Rigolo. 708 709 16 THE COURT: Okay. 710 711 17 MR. BHATNAGAR: Then on Tuesday morning we would 712 713 18 have Mr. Vijayan. 714 715 19 THE COURT: All right. Everybody knows the order. 716 717 20 MR. HOWARD: And one other point, Your Honor. 718 719 21 I wanted to inform the Court -- I just informed 720 721 22 Signal -- plaintiffs will be calling, as their expert witness 722 723 23 on the scope -- from your order on the debt practices in 724 725 24 India and those related issues, Amy Mowl and not 726 727 25 Smita Narula. 728 729 730 731 732 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 733 ^L 734 606 735 736 737 738 739 740 1 THE COURT: And do you think that -- Mr. Vijayan 741 742 2 won't take all day Tuesday or - 743 744 3 MR. HOWARD: Our intent is that he would take 745 746 4 probably a bulk of the day. To the extent there is time in 747 748 5 that day, we're going to have other depositions ready to go 749 750 6 so there will not be another live witness on Tuesday. 751 752 7 And I'm not sure whether we made a decision as to 753 754 8 when to fit in some of the other depositions. Like Michael 755 756 9 Pol's deposition reading could take the bulk of a day, too, 757 758 10 given the scope of all the designations. 759 760 11 Hopefully the parties will be able to pare that 761 762 12 down some, but he is a defendant and important witness. 763 764 13 I think the next live witness we would have would 765 766 14 be Mr. Palanyandi Thangamani. And the next live witness 767 768 15 after that would be Mr. Andrews Padaveettiyl. Do I have that 769 770 16 right? 771 772 17 MS. HANGARTNER: Padaveettiyl. 773 774 18 MR. HOWARD: I was asking about if I had the order 775 776 19 right. 777 778 20 MS. HANGARTNER: I'm sorry. 779 780 21 MR. HOWARD: And then we would -- we have two more 781 782 22 experts, which be would Amy Mowl and Cyrus Mehta, who is the 783 784 23 immigration expert. And then hopefully we would get done all 785 786 24 through next week, but that's pretty ambitious with only four 787 788 25 days of work. 789 790 791 792 793 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 794 ^L 795 607 796 797 798 799 800 801 1 THE COURT: Don't you have one more plaintiff? 802 803 2 MR. HOWARD: And then we have one more plaintiff, 804 805 3 and he is Mr. Khuttan who I discussed with the Court is 806 807 4 traveling, so he is available the week of the 26th. 808 809 5 The way it's looking with the deposition reading 810 811 6 and whatever, he'll probably be coming in at the very end of 812 813 7 our case. And if somehow we finish earlier, I think there 814 815 8 was an agreement with the parties and the Court that he could 816 817 9 go even after Signal started its case. 818 819 10 THE COURT: Right. 820 821 11 MS. HANGARTNER: That looks like - 822 823 12 THE COURT: If y'all wanted to do some depositions, 824 825 13 and -- you know, because you wanted to wait and start your 826 827 14 live witnesses, I'll let you all work that out, but we'll 828 829 15 figure it out. 830 831 16 MR. HOWARD: Very well, Your Honor. 832 833 17 THE COURT: Then we have some exhibits from 834 835 18 Mr. Sony? 836 837 19 MS. HANGARTNER: Yes, Your Honor. 838 839 20 THE COURT: I would rather stand up for a while 840 841 21 before we sit all day, so that's why we're standing. 842 843 22 MR. SANDLER: Good morning, Your Honor. 844 845 23 The exhibits that were introduced by plaintiffs 846 847 24 through Mr. Sony were 1909, 763 - 848 849 25 THE COURT: Hold on a second. Cesyle, you're okay? 850 851 852 853 854 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 855 ^L 856 608 857 858 859 860 861 862 1 CASE MANAGER: I'm okay. Go. 863 864 2 MR. SANDLER: 1909, 763, 768, 769, 765, 766, 740, 865 866 3 815, 799, 1190, 808, 2031, 1201, 2142, and 1360. 867 868 4 MR. UNGAR: Your Honor, most of Signal's exhibits 869 870 5 have already been offered. 871 872 6 Signal also offers 770 and 2098. 873 874 7 MR. CERNIGLIA: Your Honor, the Burnett defendants 875 876 8 would offer into evidence Exhibit Nos. 526, 824, 1192, 1194, 877 878 9 1195, 1197, 1198, 1418, 1876, and 1877. 879 880 10 THE COURT: All right. Any objection? 881 882 11 MR. SANDLER: Your Honor, plaintiffs don't object 883 884 12 to any of the exhibits except we request that they need to 885 886 13 redact portions of the banking documents that were entered by 887 888 14 Mr. Cerniglia, which demonstrate banking transactions after 889 890 15 Mr. Sony departed Signal. 891 892 16 MR. CERNIGLIA: I don't have a problem with that. 893 894 17 THE COURT: What exhibit number is that? 895 896 18 MR. SANDLER: Well, definitely 1194, but we would 897 898 19 like to review the documents around that, because Mr. Sony 899 900 20 also had a savings account about which he didn't elicit much 901 902 21 testimony, but I think there might have also been the same 903 904 22 issue. 905 906 23 MR. CERNIGLIA: But they weren't introduced by you. 907 908 24 That's part of 1201. 909 910 25 MR. SANDLER: I am talking about 1201. 911 912 913 914 915 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 916 ^L 917 609 918 919 920 921 922 923 1 THE REPORTER: I can't hear you. 924 925 2 MR. CERNIGLIA: That is one -- you went through 926 927 3 each one individually. 928 929 4 Plaintiffs' attorney introduced 1201 and put them 930 931 5 up on the screen one page at a time. 932 933 6 MR. SANDLER: To authenticate them. 934 935 7 MR. CERNIGLIA: And you talked to him about it, and 936 937 8 I asked about it too. 938 939 9 MR. SANDLER: Well, I didn't talk to Mr. Sony about 940 941 10 it. I just had him authenticate those were his documents. 942 943 11 But to the extent redaction is required across the 944 945 12 board, we intend to do that for any documents that show 946 947 13 banking documents after Mr. Sony left Signal. 948 949 14 MR. CERNIGLIA: And my only problem with that is I 950 951 15 believe that during the redirect, Mr. Sony was directed 952 953 16 towards certain interest payments on one of these documents. 954 955 17 And it doesn't show what year it was, but I think 956 957 18 that if that's going to be left in but nothing else on that 958 959 19 page, I'm not going to be able to make my argument how I 960 961 20 don't think that is correct. 962 963 21 I think it will be subject to argument. 964 965 22 MR. SANDLER: Can the parties work -- plaintiffs 966 967 23 can work with counsel for Burnett to see if we can agree on 968 969 24 redactions and get that to the Court next week? 970 971 25 MR. CERNIGLIA: And we probably can. 972 973 974 975 976 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 977 ^L 978 610 979 980 981 982 983 984 1 THE COURT: All right. So I'll admit all the 985 986 2 exhibits that were offered, and I will revisit any requests 987 988 3 for redactions next week. 989 990 4 MR. SANDLER: We'll meet and confer beforehand. 991 992 5 THE COURT: All right. 993 994 6 MR. UNGAR: Thank you, Your Honor. 995 996 7 THE COURT: Anything else? 997 998 8 (No response.) 999 1000 9 THE COURT: So let's bring in the jury. 1001 1002 10 (Jury in at 9:25 a.m.) 1003 1004 11 THE COURT: All right. Good morning, ladies and 1005 1006 12 gentlemen of the jury. Have a seat. 1007 1008 13 And we'll continue Mr. Jacob's examination. 1009 1010 14 (Interpreter previously sworn.) 1011 1012 15 JACOB JOSEPH KADAKKARAPPALLY, 1013 1014 16 having been previously sworn, testified as follows, to wit: 1015 1016 17 CONTINUED DIRECT EXAMINATION 1017 1018 18 BY MS. TSU: 1019 1020 19 Q. Good morning, Mr. Jacob. 1021 1022 20 A. Morning. 1023 1024 21 Q. Yesterday we were talking about requests that you 1025 1026 22 had made of Signal for improvements at the Indian workers' 1027 1028 23 man camp. Do you remember that? 1029 1030 24 THE INTERPRETER: Could you please repeat it? 1031 1032 25 MS. TSU: Yes. 1033 1034 1035 1036 1037 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 1038 ^L 1039 611 1040 1041 1042 1043 1044 1045 1 MS. TSU: (CONTINUING) 1046 1047 2 Q. Do you remember yesterday, at the end of the day, 1048 1049 3 talking about improvements that you had requested at the 1050 1051 4 Indian workers' man camp? 1052 1053 5 A. Yes, I remember. 1054 1055 6 Q. At that time when you were working at Signal, did 1056 1057 7 you talk to anyone outside of Signal about problems at the 1058 1059 8 man camp? 1060 1061 9 A. With one or two people who were with me when we 1062 1063 10 went to the church, they had spoken with the priest there. 1064 1065 11 Q. They had spoken with the police there? Is that 1066 1067 12 what you said? 1068 1069 13 MS. TSU: I'm sorry, I couldn't understand the 1070 1071 14 translation. Could you say it again? 1072 1073 15 THE WITNESS: Priest. 1074 1075 16 MS. TSU: The priest there. Thank you. 1076 1077 17 MS. TSU: (CONTINUING) 1078 1079 18 Q. And what had you told the priest? 1080 1081 19 And let me just say I only want to know about 1082 1083 20 things that had to do with the Signal man camp, not about 1084 1085 21 confession. That's separate and not related. 1086 1087 22 Let me break that down. I'm going to ask you 1088 1089 23 questions about what you said to the priest. 1090 1091 24 A. Okay. 1092 1093 25 Q. I'm not asking about anything that happened in 1094 1095 1096 1097 1098 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 1099 ^L 1100 612 1101 1102 1103 1104 1105 1106 1 confession. I'm just asking about things that had to do with 1107 1108 2 Signal. 1109 1110 3 A. Okay. 1111 1112 4 Q. So what did you tell the priest about conditions at 1113 1114 5 Signal? 1115 1116 6 A. I had just been there twice for the confessions 1117 1118 7 there, but then I had not talked -- I have not spoken to the 1119 1120 8 priest regarding any problems with Signal. People who were 1121 1122 9 with me, they were the ones who spoke with them. 1123 1124 10 THE INTERPRETER: Sorry, it's not a confession, it 1125 1126 11 is a holy mass. 1127 1128 12 MS. TSU: (CONTINUING) 1129 1130 13 Q. The -- okay. So what happened after coworkers of 1131 1132 14 yours spoke to the priest about things happening at Signal? 1133 1134 15 A. The first thing they did is that they arranged a 1135 1136 16 bus for us to go attend the holy mass in their church. And 1137 1138 17 then they had called up some people from New Orleans Workers' 1139 1140 18 Center and arranged a meeting there. 1141 1142 19 Q. And when you say they called the New Orleans 1143 1144 20 Workers' Center, who was the "they"? 1145 1146 21 A. The people that are related to the church. One 1147 1148 22 person's name I remember -- recollect as Tom. 1149 1150 23 Q. Okay. And did you ever go to a meeting at the 1151 1152 24 church with the New Orleans Workers' Center or anyone else 1153 1154 25 regarding issues at Signal? 1155 1156 1157 1158 1159 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 1160 ^L 1161 613 1162 1163 1164 1165 1166 1167 1 A. The first meeting I did not attend. The friends 1168 1169 2 who attended that meeting said that it is a very good 1170 1171 3 meeting, and that they would definitely help, that they would 1172 1173 4 talk to Signal and help us. That's what they said. 1174 1175 5 Q. What was your understanding about what the -- what 1176 1177 6 the people at that meeting would talk to Signal about? 1178 1179 7 THE INTERPRETER: Would you please repeat it, 1180 1181 8 ma'am? 1182 1183 9 MS. TSU: Sure. 1184 1185 10 MS. TSU: (CONTINUING) 1186 1187 11 Q. When you said they would talk to Signal, what was 1188 1189 12 it they were going to talk to Signal about? 1190 1191 13 A. At the first meeting, I did not attend so I did not 1192 1193 14 understand much of it. Only the second meeting I attended 1194 1195 15 and I understood what they were saying. 1196 1197 16 Q. So what is -- what did you understand -- let me 1198 1199 17 ask: At this meeting -- where was this meeting that you 1200 1201 18 attended? 1202 1203 19 A. There was a hall right next to the church. 1204 1205 20 Q. And who was at that meeting? 1206 1207 21 A. There was a person named Saket Soni from 1208 1209 22 New Orleans Workers' Center. 1210 1211 23 And then there was a lady lawyer also with him, but 1212 1213 24 I did not know her name then but later on I came to know, 1214 1215 25 after inquiring, that her name was Patricia Rice. 1216 1217 1218 1219 1220 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 1221 ^L 1222 614 1223 1224 1225 1226 1227 1228 1 Q. And what was discussed at this meeting? 1229 1230 2 A. A couple of people's wages were reduced at the 1231 1232 3 company so some people were talking about that. 1233 1234 4 And I personally was talking to them about the 1235 1236 5 accommodations and to get that better, improved. 1237 1238 6 Q. And when was this meeting? 1239 1240 7 A. I think it was Sunday. I don't remember the date. 1241 1242 8 Q. Was it before or after Signal terminated you? 1243 1244 9 A. Before getting terminated. 1245 1246 10 Q. And did -- do you know whether the charities did 1247 1248 11 anything, after the meeting, for you? 1249 1250 12 A. At the meeting they said that they would write a 1251 1252 13 letter to Signal addressing all of our problems, and like 1253 1254 14 that they would be able to solve the problem. 1255 1256 15 Q. Did Signal ever find out about the meeting with the 1257 1258 16 charities? 1259 1260 17 A. After the meeting, what Signal did is that they 1261 1262 18 terminated me and so I don't know what happened after that. 1263 1264 19 Well, just before the day that I got terminated, a 1265 1266 20 day before that -- I think it's March 8th -- that 1267 1268 21 vice-president from Signal had came down there and did a 1269 1270 22 meeting talking about that you guys are planning to sue the 1271 1272 23 company, and that's when I understood that maybe they came to 1273 1274 24 know about the meetings at the church. 1275 1276 25 Q. Okay. The meeting that you just referenced on 1277 1278 1279 1280 1281 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 1282 ^L 1283 615 1284 1285 1286 1287 1288 1289 1 March 8th with the vice-president of Signal, where was that 1290 1291 2 meeting? 1292 1293 3 A. That was in our -- Signal's -- inside the Signal's 1294 1295 4 man camp. 1296 1297 5 Q. Who was at that meeting? 1298 1299 6 A. In there there was Ron Schnoor and 1300 1301 7 Malvern C. Burnett. And there was one other person whose 1302 1303 8 name I don't know. 1304 1305 9 MS. TSU: Could we bring up the defendants in the 1306 1307 10 lawsuit. 1308 1309 11 MS. TSU: (CONTINUING) 1310 1311 12 Q. Can you circle with your finger on the screen who 1312 1313 13 was the Signal vice-president. 1314 1315 14 A. (Complies.) 1316 1317 15 Q. And would you also circle Mr. Burnett. 1318 1319 16 A. (Complies.) 1320 1321 17 Q. Other than Mr. Schnoor, Mr. Burnett, you, and this 1322 1323 18 other person who you don't remember, was anybody else present 1324 1325 19 at that meeting? 1326 1327 20 A. I don't correctly remember, but I think it was this 1328 1329 21 person there (indicating). 1330 1331 22 Q. Okay. Were there other Indian workers present? 1332 1333 23 A. Yes. From the site they had called up for an 1334 1335 24 emergency meeting so everybody were there. 1336 1337 25 Q. And when you say everybody, do you mean the Indian 1338 1339 1340 1341 1342 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 1343 ^L 1344 616 1345 1346 1347 1348 1349 1350 1 workers? 1351 1352 2 A. Yes, only the Indian people. 1353 1354 3 Q. Do you remember a speech that was played yesterday 1355 1356 4 when Mr. Sony was testifying? 1357 1358 5 A. Yes, I know. 1359 1360 6 Q. Do you remember it well enough that I can ask you 1361 1362 7 questions about it without playing it again or would you 1363 1364 8 prefer me to play it again before asking you questions? 1365 1366 9 A. You don't have to play that. I do remember it. 1367 1368 10 Q. At that time when you heard the speech when you 1369 1370 11 were in the Signal man camp, what did you understand 1371 1372 12 Mr. Schnoor to be saying to you and the other Indian workers? 1373 1374 13 A. The first thing I understood is that Signal is not 1375 1376 14 going to be doing any visa extensions or green card 1377 1378 15 processing. The second thing is that they misunderstood that 1379 1380 16 we are going to be suing against the company. 1381 1382 17 Actually, we did not have the meeting at the church 1383 1384 18 for suing the company. We wanted better accommodations; just 1385 1386 19 for that. 1387 1388 20 And in the meeting, they also made an announcement 1389 1390 21 that they are terminating the H-2B program. 1391 1392 22 And then the other thing that I understood is that 1393 1394 23 meeting was to create fear, and that it was a threat -- in a 1395 1396 24 threatening way that -- how the meeting was conducted. That 1397 1398 25 I felt that they were saying that if you want to work with 1399 1400 1401 1402 1403 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 1404 ^L 1405 617 1406 1407 1408 1409 1410 1411 1 whatever we are providing, you can work here. If not, you 1412 1413 2 can leave. 1414 1415 3 I think that's what I understood from the meeting. 1416 1417 4 Q. And when you say that you thought that they were 1418 1419 5 trying to create fear, what was the fear that you understood 1420 1421 6 was being conveyed? 1422 1423 7 THE INTERPRETER: Could you please repeat the last 1424 1425 8 part. 1426 1427 9 MS. TSU: (CONTINUING) 1428 1429 10 Q. What was the fear that you understood was to be 1430 1431 11 conveyed? 1432 1433 12 A. The biggest fear that we had was that with the huge 1434 1435 13 debt that we had incurred to come here, that we may have to 1436 1437 14 go back on July 31st. 1438 1439 15 Q. And at that point, do you believe that Signal knew 1440 1441 16 about the debts that you and other workers had incurred to 1442 1443 17 come to Signal? 1444 1445 18 A. Definitely. 1446 1447 19 Q. And do you believe that Signal understood the 1448 1449 20 stress that that debt caused you and other Indian workers? 1450 1451 21 MR. UNGAR: Objection, Your Honor. Leading. 1452 1453 22 THE COURT: Sustained. Rephrase it. 1454 1455 23 MS. TSU: (CONTINUING) 1456 1457 24 Q. Do you believe that Signal understood the effect of 1458 1459 25 that debt on you? 1460 1461 1462 1463 1464 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 1465 ^L 1466 618 1467 1468 1469 1470 1471 1472 1 A. They knew. 1473 1474 2 Q. I believe you said that meeting was on March 8th; 1475 1476 3 is that right? 1477 1478 4 A. Yes. 1479 1480 5 Q. What happened the next day? 1481 1482 6 A. The next day morning when I was waking up in my 1483 1484 7 bedroom, I actually was woken up with a very unusual noise. 1485 1486 8 Q. What was that noise? 1487 1488 9 A. The people in the container were all standing up 1489 1490 10 and talking and all the lights were switched on. 1491 1492 11 Q. And at some point you got up and I assume went to 1493 1494 12 the restroom. What happened when you came back from the 1495 1496 13 restroom? 1497 1498 14 A. When I came out of the bathroom, I'm seeing Sabulal 1499 1500 15 is standing beside my bed. And what I'm seeing is that his 1501 1502 16 arm was cut and he was bleeding. 1503 1504 17 Q. Who is Sabulal? 1505 1506 18 A. Sabulal was a person who was working with me, and 1507 1508 19 he was also living in the same container as I am. 1509 1510 20 Q. He is another Indian worker? 1511 1512 21 A. Yes. 1513 1514 22 Q. And you said that you saw Sabulal standing there. 1515 1516 23 What did you do? 1517 1518 24 A. Sabulal was crying. He was saying that, Jacob, 1519 1520 25 they are catching hold of me and they are taking me away. 1521 1522 1523 1524 1525 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 1526 ^L 1527 619 1528 1529 1530 1531 1532 1533 1 And that there is no one for my family, and please save me. 1534 1535 2 And saying this, he was crying loud. 1536 1537 3 When I'm seeing Sabulal, from his arm he was 1538 1539 4 bleeding profusely. So I hold onto his arm like that 1540 1541 5 (indicating). And when I was holding Sabulal by his arm, 1542 1543 6 Sabulal was in a condition that he is going to be almost 1544 1545 7 falling down. And holding him -- holding Sabulal, I came out 1546 1547 8 of the container, and there all the people were gathered 1548 1549 9 together. 1550 1551 10 Q. Did you take Sabulal to the hospital? 1552 1553 11 A. I was telling people that were gathered there that, 1554 1555 12 as quickly as possible let's take Sabulal to the hospital, 1556 1557 13 help me. And then I was walking towards the mess hall there. 1558 1559 14 Q. Did you make it to the hospital? 1560 1561 15 A. By the time I -- all my -- I was covered with 1562 1563 16 blood, and so people around me said that, Jacob, you go and 1564 1565 17 change your clothes and we'll take him there. 1566 1567 18 And then I went to change my clothes, and people 1568 1569 19 had taken Sabulal from me. 1570 1571 20 (Interpreter and witness conferring.) 1572 1573 21 Actually, I did not go to change my clothing. I 1574 1575 22 was following them towards the gate. When I was walking 1576 1577 23 towards the gate, a person came and held onto my collar like 1578 1579 24 that. 1580 1581 25 Q. Who was the person who came and held onto your 1582 1583 1584 1585 1586 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 1587 ^L 1588 620 1589 1590 1591 1592 1593 1594 1 collar? 1595 1596 2 A. Mr. Darrell. 1597 1598 3 Q. At that time, did you know who Mr. Darrell was? 1599 1600 4 A. Darrell is the camp manager there. 1601 1602 5 Q. What did Mr. Darrell do or say when he held onto 1603 1604 6 your collar? 1605 1606 7 A. Darrell said, You have to come with me. I have to 1607 1608 8 talk to you. 1609 1610 9 Q. Did you go with him? 1611 1612 10 A. I went on with him. I thought that it was going to 1613 1614 11 be regarding Sabulal where he would be asking what had 1615 1616 12 happened to him or how we could help him, like that, so 1617 1618 13 that's why I went along with him. 1619 1620 14 Q. Did Mr. Snyder ask you what had happened to Sabulal 1621 1622 15 or how Signal could help him? 1623 1624 16 A. No. 1625 1626 17 Q. What did Mr. Snyder say or do? 1627 1628 18 A. Mr. Snyder had taken me to the TV room -- TV hall 1629 1630 19 that's next to it. When I went to the TV hall, I saw there 1631 1632 20 were two security guards who I've not seen before standing 1633 1634 21 there. 1635 1636 22 Q. Describe those security guards, please. 1637 1638 23 A. There were two American people that were very 1639 1640 24 strong. They were wearing a T-shirt and that was written 1641 1642 25 Swetman Security, so that's how I came to know they were 1643 1644 1645 1646 1647 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 1648 ^L 1649 621 1650 1651 1652 1653 1654 1655 1 securities. 1656 1657 2 Q. And when you -- what did Mr. Snyder do when you 1658 1659 3 reached the TV room? 1660 1661 4 A. When I and Mr. Snyder went to the TV room, the 1662 1663 5 security guards opened the door. And then they closed the 1664 1665 6 door after we went in. When I went inside the room, I saw 1666 1667 7 two more Indian people there. 1668 1669 8 When we went inside the TV hall, Darrell asked me 1670 1671 9 to sit. There were two chairs there to sit opposite each 1672 1673 10 other. 1674 1675 11 Q. And what did Mr. Snyder tell you in the TV room? 1676 1677 12 A. He was sitting opposite to me and was saying that, 1678 1679 13 Jacob, you know that you are terminated and you are going 1680 1681 14 back to India. 1682 1683 15 That's what he said. 1684 1685 16 Q. And what was your reaction to hearing that news? 1686 1687 17 A. I was really upset. I did not expect that at all. 1688 1689 18 I was thinking that he is going to be asking how we could 1690 1691 19 help Sabulal. 1692 1693 20 And I almost lost my breath. I was in shock when 1694 1695 21 he -- when I heard him say that that afternoon I will be sent 1696 1697 22 back to India. 1698 1699 23 Q. What did you do or say? 1700 1701 24 A. After I came back from my shock, I asked him, Why 1702 1703 25 are you terminating me? 1704 1705 1706 1707 1708 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 1709 ^L 1710 622 1711 1712 1713 1714 1715 1716 1 Further Darrell said, I don't know anything about 1717 1718 2 it; it is the position from the top management, and my job is 1719 1720 3 to carry out what the top management want. 1721 1722 4 Q. At that point, did you leave the TV room? 1723 1724 5 A. No. No. As soon as when they put me in that room, 1725 1726 6 I heard people outside were making a loud noise. I did ask 1727 1728 7 Darrell that I -- to give me an opportunity to speak with the 1729 1730 8 top management. I requested him to give me an opportunity to 1731 1732 9 talk to upper management, and Darrell was not willing to 1733 1734 10 listen to my request. 1735 1736 11 And then Darrell was trying to leave outside of the 1737 1738 12 room, going next to the door, but at that time we heard loud 1739 1740 13 noises and -- by the door. The Indian people were shouting 1741 1742 14 like this: Open the door, open the door. 1743 1744 15 Darrell came back to me and asked me to go tell 1745 1746 16 your people to be silent. 1747 1748 17 At the time I asked Darrell, if I could go and ask 1749 1750 18 them to be silent, is it possible for you to give me an 1751 1752 19 opportunity to speak with your top management. At the time, 1753 1754 20 Darrell agreed to it. 1755 1756 21 And then I and Darrell went to the door, and I 1757 1758 22 asked the security guards to open the door for us. 1759 1760 23 Q. Did you ask the people to be quiet? 1761 1762 24 A. I told the people that -- to be quiet, they are 1763 1764 25 going to give us an opportunity to speak to the top 1765 1766 1767 1768 1769 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 1770 ^L 1771 623 1772 1773 1774 1775 1776 1777 1 management about our problems and we will find a resolution. 1778 1779 2 And so I asked them to be quiet. 1780 1781 3 Q. At that point, did you and Darrell both leave the 1782 1783 4 TV room? 1784 1785 5 A. After we said that, Darrell was leaving -- walking 1786 1787 6 away from the door, and I was also following Darrell. But at 1788 1789 7 the time the security guard stopped me and said, We're not 1790 1791 8 going to let you go. You are locked up here. 1792 1793 9 That's when I actually understood that I am being 1794 1795 10 locked up in the room. 1796 1797 11 Q. Why didn't you ignore the security guard and just 1798 1799 12 walk on out? 1800 1801 13 THE INTERPRETER: Could you please repeat that, 1802 1803 14 ma'am? 1804 1805 15 MS. TSU: (CONTINUING) 1806 1807 16 Q. Why did you not ignore the security guard? 1808 1809 17 A. I had requested two or three times for the security 1810 1811 18 guards to let me go outside, but they did not concede. 1812 1813 19 Q. Okay. The -- what did they say the first time you 1814 1815 20 asked to go outside? 1816 1817 21 MR. UNGAR: Objection. Hearsay. 1818 1819 22 MS. TSU: These were Signal's agents comments made 1820 1821 23 within the course of employment. 1822 1823 24 MR. UNGAR: Your Honor, it was a security guard. 1824 1825 25 THE COURT: Weren't they retained by Signal? 1826 1827 1828 1829 1830 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 1831 ^L 1832 624 1833 1834 1835 1836 1837 1838 1 MR. UNGAR: Yes, Your Honor. 1839 1840 2 THE COURT: All right. So it's overruled. 1841 1842 3 A. That I could not -- I should not go -- I could not 1843 1844 4 go out. That I had to wait there up until Darrell comes 1845 1846 5 back, and that's why they are standing guard there. 1847 1848 6 MS. TSU: (CONTINUING) 1849 1850 7 Q. And what about the second time? What did the 1851 1852 8 security guard tell you? 1853 1854 9 A. The second time I asked -- asked them, I requested 1855 1856 10 them to go to the bathroom for me, and they rejected that. 1857 1858 11 Q. Was there a bathroom in the trailer you were in? 1859 1860 12 A. No. 1861 1862 13 Q. Did you ask a third time to leave? 1863 1864 14 A. The third time I requested them for me to go get a 1865 1866 15 cup of coffee to drink, because I like to do it, and they did 1867 1868 16 not let me do that, either. 1869 1870 17 Q. And did you make any other requests to leave? 1871 1872 18 A. And then I asked them for my phone because that 1873 1874 19 morning I just came out of my bed, I forgot to grab my phone. 1875 1876 20 So I requested for that. 1877 1878 21 Q. Did you ever ask again to use the bathroom? 1879 1880 22 A. Later on in the afternoon. I think it was by the 1881 1882 23 afternoon there was a lady security who had come inside our 1883 1884 24 room, and so I asked that lady security for me to go to the 1885 1886 25 bathroom. And she said, If you have to go, you can go in the 1887 1888 1889 1890 1891 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 1892 ^L 1893 625 1894 1895 1896 1897 1898 1899 1 room here. 1900 1901 2 Q. But there wasn't a bathroom in the room there. 1902 1903 3 What did you understand her to be meaning? 1904 1905 4 A. What I understood is that I'm completely locked up 1906 1907 5 in that room. That there is no way that I could go outside 1908 1909 6 of the room. And that if I need to go to the bathroom, I 1910 1911 7 should be going then and there in that room. 1912 1913 8 Q. What time did you enter the TV room with Darrell, 1914 1915 9 approximately? 1916 1917 10 A. I think it is between 6:00 and 6:30 in the morning, 1918 1919 11 because that's the time everybody gets up and gets ready to 1920 1921 12 go to work and that's when they caught hold of me. 1922 1923 13 Q. And what time was that request to the lady security 1924 1925 14 guard to use the restroom? 1926 1927 15 A. Approximately in the afternoon. I think 1928 1929 16 approximately noontime, I think. 1930 1931 17 Q. And how long were you in that room? 1932 1933 18 A. Approximately I got released from the room in the 1934 1935 19 evening, about 4:00. 1936 1937 20 Q. Did you ever get a chance to talk to that Signal 1938 1939 21 manager? 1940 1941 22 A. Let me also tell this before I answer that. 1942 1943 23 Approximately in the afternoon, between 2:00 or 1944 1945 24 3:00 in the afternoon, a security guard -- someone had come 1946 1947 25 and spoke to the security guard, and then the security guard 1948 1949 1950 1951 1952 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 1953 ^L 1954 626 1955 1956 1957 1958 1959 1960 1 had allowed me to go to the bathroom. And with the 1961 1962 2 security's escort, I was taken to the bathroom. 1963 1964 3 Q. Thank you. 1965 1966 4 So did you get a chance to talk to that Signal 1967 1968 5 manager? 1969 1970 6 A. Yes. At about 4:00 or so, approximately, a Signal 1971 1972 7 manager came to that room. 1973 1974 8 MS. TSU: Could we have the defendant chart up 1975 1976 9 again. 1977 1978 10 MS. TSU: (CONTINUING) 1979 1980 11 Q. Mr. Jacob, would you look at this chart and tell me 1981 1982 12 if you see the Signal manager who came into the room. 1983 1984 13 A. (Indicating.) 1985 1986 14 Q. Mr. Bingle and Mr. Snyder came in? 1987 1988 15 A. Yes. 1989 1990 16 Q. Okay. And did Mr. Bingle tell you anything when he 1991 1992 17 came into the room around 4:00? 1993 1994 18 A. When Bingle came in, the first thing I asked of him 1995 1996 19 is what is the reason for them to terminate me, why did they 1997 1998 20 terminate me. 1999 2000 21 Q. What did Mr. Bingle say in response? 2001 2002 22 A. That I am organizing people against Signal. That's 2003 2004 23 what he said. I was -- I told him in response that I am not 2005 2006 24 organizing anybody or anything like that; that people are 2007 2008 25 coming and telling me their needs and I'm just merely passing 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 2014 ^L 2015 627 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 2021 1 on their needs to you -- to the company. 2022 2023 2 And their needs is also my own needs, too, so 2024 2025 3 that's why I'm talking to you about getting those needs 2026 2027 4 fulfilled. And other than that, we are not conspiring 2028 2029 5 against Signal or anything like that. 2030 2031 6 Q. What language was this conversation happening in? 2032 2033 7 A. In English. 2034 2035 8 Q. How well did you understand what was happening? 2036 2037 9 A. What do you mean, what is happening? 2038 2039 10 Q. Let me rephrase. 2040 2041 11 How did you understand what Mr. Bingle was saying 2042 2043 12 if he was talking in English? 2044 2045 13 A. Bingle was speaking very slowly. 2046 2047 14 Q. Okay. And when you said that you were translating, 2048 2049 15 not organizing, what did Mr. Bingle say in response? 2050 2051 16 A. When I'm saying these things to Mr. Bingle, I did 2052 2053 17 not see there was any chance of them cancelling the 2054 2055 18 termination, so I was really tense and I was crying. I spoke 2056 2057 19 about all of my debts and about my family and all to 2058 2059 20 Mr. Bingle. And even Bingle was looking at me and laughing 2060 2061 21 at me. 2062 2063 22 Q. He was laughing at you? 2064 2065 23 A. When I'm saying "laughing at," I'm saying that he 2066 2067 24 was smiling, kind of like that. 2068 2069 25 Q. What was making you cry? 2070 2071 2072 2073 2074 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 2075 ^L 2076 628 2077 2078 2079 2080 2081 2082 1 A. Because of my feeling and my debts that -- and -2083 2084 2 that I would not be able to return back to India. 2085 2086 3 Q. You said you had told Mr. Bingle something about 2087 2088 4 your family. What did you tell him about your family? 2089 2090 5 A. I was living with my family in my childhood home, 2091 2092 6 and because of this American dream, I had to leave my 2093 2094 7 childhood home and go and live in a rented house. 2095 2096 8 Q. What effects would it have on your family if you 2097 2098 9 were terminated from Signal? 2099 2100 10 A. That I would not be able to support my family. My 2101 2102 11 older brother was sick, so that's why I had to give him my 2103 2104 12 family home. I had to sell off all of my wife's jewelry and 2105 2106 13 whatever money I had to come here. 2107 2108 14 And in my hometown, I had told everybody very 2109 2110 15 happily that I am going to America before I came here; and in 2111 2112 16 that condition, I would not have been able to return back. 2113 2114 17 THE WITNESS: Can I take a break? 2115 2116 18 THE COURT: Let's take a break for a second. We'll 2117 2118 19 just stay in the courtroom and stand at ease for a few 2119 2120 20 minutes. 2121 2122 21 MS. TSU: Is it okay if he is excused and goes to 2123 2124 22 the restroom or -2125 2126 23 THE COURT: That's fine. If you want to go to the 2127 2128 24 restroom -2129 2130 25 THE WITNESS: I want to go wash my face. 2131 2132 2133 2134 2135 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 2136 ^L 2137 629 2138 2139 2140 2141 2142 2143 1 THE COURT: Okay. Well, let's do this. We'll take 2144 2145 2 a break for 10 minutes, and so we'll start back at 10:20. 2146 2147 3 I want you to remember the instructions that I've 2148 2149 4 given you throughout the trial. 2150 2151 5 Until the trial is over, you're not to discuss the 2152 2153 6 case with anyone, including your fellow jurors -2154 2155 7 I want the lawyers to be quiet while I'm doing 2156 2157 8 this. This is important to you and to the jurors, that they 2158 2159 9 hear and remember what the instructions are. 2160 2161 10 You're not to discuss the case with anyone, 2162 2163 11 including your fellow jurors, members of your family, people 2164 2165 12 involved in the trial, or anyone else. 2166 2167 13 If anyone approaches you, do not tell your fellow 2168 2169 14 jurors but advise me about it immediately. 2170 2171 15 Do not communicate with anyone or provide any 2172 2173 16 information to anyone by any means about this case. 2174 2175 17 All right. So we'll come back at 10:20. 2176 2177 18 (Jury out at 10:12 a.m.) 2178 2179 19 (A recess was taken.) 2180 2181 20 AFTER THE RECESS 2182 2183 21 (Call to order of the court.) 2184 2185 22 THE COURT: Bring the jury back in. 2186 2187 23 (Jury in at 10:24 a.m.) 2188 2189 24 THE COURT: All right. Be seated. 2190 2191 25 You may continue. 2192 2193 2194 2195 2196 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 2197 ^L 2198 630 2199 2200 2201 2202 2203 2204 1 MS. TSU: (CONTINUING) 2205 2206 2 Q. Mr. Jacob, I would like to briefly finish up about 2207 2208 3 March 9th before moving on. 2209 2210 4 A. Okay. 2211 2212 5 Q. How did you finally get out of the TV room? 2213 2214 6 A. After speaking with Bingle and Darrell, they told 2215 2216 7 me we would be taking you to the airport, and tomorrow 2217 2218 8 morning you would have a flight to go back. 2219 2220 9 So like that day I started packing my things at 2221 2222 10 about 4:00 to take me outside of the property. 2223 2224 11 Q. And once you packed your things, where were you 2225 2226 12 taken? 2227 2228 13 A. They packed my things. And when they were bringing 2229 2230 14 me, along with my packed things -- when we were heading 2231 2232 15 towards the gate from the camp, my coworkers who were working 2233 2234 16 with me, the Indian coworkers, they had taken me from them 2235 2236 17 and put me out of their way and took me to another place. 2237 2238 18 When I came to the gate, there was some media 2239 2240 19 people. 2241 2242 20 Q. How did you get to the gate? 2243 2244 21 A. I walked. 2245 2246 22 Q. And did Signal -- did Signal take you anywhere, 2247 2248 23 drop you off in town? 2249 2250 24 A. No. While I was walking towards the gate and by 2251 2252 25 the gate, there were some media people. And they asked me 2253 2254 2255 2256 2257 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 2258 ^L 2259 631 2260 2261 2262 2263 2264 2265 1 some questions, and I answered to their questions. And then 2266 2267 2 some of my friends were there and I -- they took me to my 2268 2269 3 friend's place from there. 2270 2271 4 Q. Okay. So I'm going to -- I want to show you a few 2272 2273 5 documents, including a document -2274 2275 6 MS. TSU: Could you bring up, please, Exhibit 695. 2276 2277 7 MS. TSU: (CONTINUING) 2278 2279 8 Q. Do you see your name on this document? 2280 2281 9 A. Yes. 2282 2283 10 Q. And were you -- did anyone from Signal ever show 2284 2285 11 you this document? 2286 2287 12 A. No. 2288 2289 13 Q. And under reason for change, I'm going to circle 2290 2291 14 the checked box. What box is checked? 2292 2293 15 A. Termination. 2294 2295 16 Q. And I'm going to circle the date. What is the 2296 2297 17 date? 2298 2299 18 A. March 9, 2007. 2300 2301 19 Q. Were you ever given any copy of this to sign? 2302 2303 20 A. No. 2304 2305 21 MS. TSU: You can take that down. 2306 2307 22 MS. TSU: (CONTINUING) 2308 2309 23 Q. You testified earlier about a meeting at a church 2310 2311 24 with the New Orleans Workers' Center for Racial Justice. 2312 2313 25 After coming back from the meeting, did you tell anyone about 2314 2315 2316 2317 2318 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 2319 ^L 2320 632 2321 2322 2323 2324 2325 2326 1 the meeting at the church? 2327 2328 2 A. Yes, I did speak. 2329 2330 3 Q. Who did you tell? 2331 2332 4 A. I told a person named Ramesh. He was a translator 2333 2334 5 there. And he was also the safety marshal, I think. So I 2335 2336 6 told him about the meeting. 2337 2338 7 Q. Was Ramesh another Indian H-2B worker? 2339 2340 8 A. Yes. 2341 2342 9 MS. TSU: Could we bring up Exhibit 1015, please. 2343 2344 10 And will you scroll to the third page and call out 2345 2346 11 the bottom paragraph. 2347 2348 12 I'm sorry. Actually, could you do the -- that 2349 2350 13 whole bottom e-mail. 2351 2352 14 Thank you. 2353 2354 15 MS. TSU: (CONTINUING) 2355 2356 16 Q. Do you see in this highlighted paragraph your 2357 2358 17 Signal badge number? 2359 2360 18 A. Yes, I can see it. 2361 2362 19 Q. What was your Signal badge number? 2363 2364 20 A. 500296. 2365 2366 21 Q. 500296. Okay. 2367 2368 22 Before I get into the substance of this e-mail, do 2369 2370 23 you remember Ms. Hangartner stating in her opening that 2371 2372 24 Signal used badge numbers to refer to Indian workers whose 2373 2374 25 names were hard to pronounce? 2375 2376 2377 2378 2379 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 2380 ^L 2381 633 2382 2383 2384 2385 2386 2387 1 A. While I was in Signal, I had not heard anybody 2388 2389 2 being called by their badge number. 2390 2391 3 Q. Are you being called by your badge number here? 2392 2393 4 A. Where? 2394 2395 5 Q. In the e-mail? 2396 2397 6 A. Yes. 2398 2399 7 Q. What is your first name? 2400 2401 8 A. Jacob. 2402 2403 9 Q. Do you see in this highlighted paragraph, it is the 2404 2405 10 second sentence -2406 2407 11 MS. TSU: Will you translate the second sentence, 2408 2409 12 please, or will you just translate the highlighted part. 2410 2411 13 THE INTERPRETER: (Complies.) 2412 2413 14 MS. TSU: (CONTINUING) 2414 2415 15 Q. Do you see where Mr. Snyder says that he was told 2416 2417 16 by an Indian employee that you were going from bunkhouse to 2418 2419 17 bunkhouse to recruit workers? 2420 2421 18 A. I did not go from bunkhouse to bunkhouse to gather 2422 2423 19 people or anything like that. I went looking for my friends 2424 2425 20 in to the bunkhouse, and accidently I met Ramesh there. 2426 2427 21 That's how I met Ramesh. I did not intentionally go looking 2428 2429 22 for Ramesh to see him there in his bunkhouse. 2430 2431 23 Q. And you said you did not go bunkhouse to bunkhouse. 2432 2433 24 Who did you tell about the meeting with the lawyer in 2434 2435 25 addition to Ramesh? 2436 2437 2438 2439 2440 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 2441 ^L 2442 634 2443 2444 2445 2446 2447 2448 1 A. Sabulal lives with me in my room, so I had 2449 2450 2 discussed it with him about these things. 2451 2452 3 Q. Anyone else? 2453 2454 4 A. And then if someone had approached me and asked me 2455 2456 5 about these things, I would have told them, too. 2457 2458 6 Q. Who do you think the source is that Mr. Snyder is 2459 2460 7 referring to here? 2461 2462 8 MR. UNGAR: Objection. Speculation. 2463 2464 9 THE COURT: Sustained. 2465 2466 10 MS. TSU: Could you scroll down to Page 4. 2467 2468 11 And go into the bottom. I believe it's the last 2469 2470 12 bullet point, the last paragraph. 2471 2472 13 Will you -- that's good enough. 2473 2474 14 MS. TSU: (CONTINUING) 2475 2476 15 Q. Did you ever talk to your coworkers at the jobsite 2477 2478 16 about meeting with lawyers? 2479 2480 17 A. No. 2481 2482 18 Q. Why not? 2483 2484 19 A. When we go to the jobsite, we're usually busy 2485 2486 20 there. Just like that, the tasks that the foreman gives 2487 2488 21 would be -- we have to finish it before the end of the day, 2489 2490 22 so we would be busy doing those. 2491 2492 23 Q. Did anyone at Signal ever tell you that you were 2493 2494 24 creating a safety violation by talking to people on the rig? 2495 2496 25 A. No. Not only that, because I have raised a safety 2497 2498 2499 2500 2501 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 2502 ^L 2503 635 2504 2505 2506 2507 2508 2509 1 issue, they would have actually punished me from Signal. 2510 2511 2 Q. Okay. Well, I want to -- I want to keep focussing 2512 2513 3 on this issue about talking on the rig. 2514 2515 4 Did you talk to your coworkers on the rig about 2516 2517 5 anything? 2518 2519 6 A. No. Other than the camp, I have not spoken to 2520 2521 7 anybody on the rig. 2522 2523 8 It is a risky job that we do, and so if there is 2524 2525 9 more than one person in the crew that are working, we need to 2526 2527 10 communicate with them. And if there is more than one crew 2528 2529 11 working on the rig, we need to know what other people are 2530 2531 12 doing there. And then we also had to let them know what we 2532 2533 13 are doing there. 2534 2535 14 We should communicate and we should be 2536 2537 15 knowledgeable about the work area. 2538 2539 16 Q. Okay. Let me ask about that, because now I'm 2540 2541 17 confused. 2542 2543 18 You're talking about communicating for safety 2544 2545 19 purposes, but I think you said you didn't talk to people at 2546 2547 20 the jobsite. 2548 2549 21 MS. TSU: Could you translate that and I'll ask the 2550 2551 22 question. 2552 2553 23 THE INTERPRETER: (Complies.) 2554 2555 24 A. Yes. 2556 2557 25 MS. TSU: Let me ask again because maybe I wasn't 2558 2559 2560 2561 2562 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 2563 ^L 2564 636 2565 2566 2567 2568 2569 2570 1 clear. 2571 2572 2 MS. TSU: (CONTINUING) 2573 2574 3 Q. So did you talk to your coworkers at work about 2575 2576 4 anything -- let me ask this: Did you talk to your coworkers 2577 2578 5 at work about work-related things? 2579 2580 6 A. Yes. We would be talking about the job-related 2581 2582 7 things. 2583 2584 8 Q. Could you give me an example of the kinds of 2585 2586 9 job-related things you might talk about at work? 2587 2588 10 A. Well, for example, we go as a crew to work and 2589 2590 11 there would be like two fitters -- no, there will be like one 2591 2592 12 fitter and one welder. And if there is any fire watch 2593 2594 13 available, there would be a fire watch. 2595 2596 14 If there is no fire watch, if one person is 2597 2598 15 working, the person next to him would act as a fire watch. 2599 2600 16 So when we go to work, at the site if there is 2601 2602 17 another electrician working, then when we are doing the job, 2603 2604 18 we have to tell them about the job that we are doing, 2605 2606 19 grinding work, and there may be spark from that so that 2607 2608 20 they're aware of that. 2609 2610 21 Just similar like that, if the electrician is there 2611 2612 22 and they are charging any electrical equipment, they'll also 2613 2614 23 inform us so that we're aware of that as well. 2615 2616 24 Q. Okay. 2617 2618 25 A. Things like this is what we would be communicating 2619 2620 2621 2622 2623 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 2624 ^L 2625 637 2626 2627 2628 2629 2630 2631 1 at the site. 2632 2633 2 Q. In their opening, Ms. Hangartner said that some 2634 2635 3 Indian workers made threats at Signal that if they did not 2636 2637 4 get a green card or $20,000 immediately, there would be no 2638 2639 5 peace at Signal. Do you remember that? 2640 2641 6 A. (No response.) 2642 2643 7 Q. Did you ever make a threat like that? 2644 2645 8 A. From the date that I started at Signal to the date 2646 2647 9 that I got terminated from Signal, I had always spoken to -2648 2649 10 spoken to Signal people respectfully. 2650 2651 11 Q. Did anyone at Signal ever tell you you were 2652 2653 12 speaking inappropriately while you were at Signal? 2654 2655 13 A. No. 2656 2657 14 Q. Let's talk about your recruitment to come to the 2658 2659 15 United States. 2660 2661 16 Was Signal the company you were originally 2662 2663 17 recruited for to come to the United States? 2664 2665 18 A. My recruitment process started in 2004, and at that 2666 2667 19 time, the process was -- they were recruiting me for J & M. 2668 2669 20 Q. And how did you first learn about the opportunity 2670 2671 21 to work at J & M? 2672 2673 22 A. While I was working in Saudi Arabia, one of my 2674 2675 23 friends had traveled to India on a vacation. And then when 2676 2677 24 he came back from his vacation, he was telling me that there 2678 2679 25 are people recruiting for going to America and by Rao by the 2680 2681 2682 2683 2684 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 2685 ^L 2686 638 2687 2688 2689 2690 2691 2692 1 Indo-Ameri [sic] company. And that he was saying that if you 2693 2694 2 are interested, you could approach them. 2695 2696 3 Q. What do you remember telling your friends about the 2697 2698 4 opportunity to go to the -- America, if anything else? 2699 2700 5 A. When my friend told me about this, I could not 2701 2702 6 trust him so I had sent an e-mail to Sachin with the help of 2703 2704 7 an employee from the -- who was working in the office there 2705 2706 8 using an office computer there. 2707 2708 9 Q. Okay. And where were you when you sent the e-mail 2709 2710 10 to Sachin, what country? 2711 2712 11 A. Saudi Arabia. 2713 2714 12 Q. Could your family live with you when you worked in 2715 2716 13 Saudi Arabia? 2717 2718 14 A. No. 2719 2720 15 Q. And did you ever meet Sachin Dewan? 2721 2722 16 A. The e-mail that I got from Sachin, the reply was 2723 2724 17 that the Indo-American [sic] recruitment was full, it was 2725 2726 18 completed, and that they are now recruiting for a company 2727 2728 19 called J & M Associates. And that it is going to start next 2729 2730 20 month, and I should go to India immediately. 2731 2732 21 Q. And did you go to India? 2733 2734 22 A. When I get the e-mail, I had applied for an 2735 2736 23 emergency vacation at the company that I was working in. And 2737 2738 24 so the next day I -- I went on a flight to India. 2739 2740 25 Q. Why was this worth an emergency vacation? 2741 2742 2743 2744 2745 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 2746 ^L 2747 639 2748 2749 2750 2751 2752 2753 1 A. Usually the thing is that normally a vacation is 2754 2755 2 after one-and-a-half years, and if we are taking vacation 2756 2757 3 after one-and-a-half years, they would provide the ticket for 2758 2759 4 us. And if it is an emergency vacation, that we should be 2760 2761 5 paying for our own ticket. 2762 2763 6 Q. Okay. 2764 2765 7 MR. SHAPIRO: I'm sorry to interrupt, but I'm 2766 2767 8 having a very difficult time hearing the translator. I 2768 2769 9 suggest moving closer to the microphone. I know how 2770 2771 10 difficult this is. 2772 2773 11 THE COURT: Thank you. He moved the microphone 2774 2775 12 closer. 2776 2777 13 MS. TSU: (CONTINUING) 2778 2779 14 Q. Did you meet with Sachin Dewan in India? 2780 2781 15 A. After I arrived in India, I had called and spoke 2782 2783 16 with someone on the phone. I don't know if it was Sachin or 2784 2785 17 Saliman. 2786 2787 18 And after the phone call, I went to Cochin. I 2788 2789 19 think it was the Trident Hilton Hotel to meet them. 2790 2791 20 Q. And who was at this meeting at the Trident Hotel? 2792 2793 21 A. Sachin Dewan, Saliman, and Michael Pol. 2794 2795 22 Q. Any other workers in addition to you? 2796 2797 23 A. Yes, there were many people. It was a very good 2798 2799 24 crowd there. 2800 2801 25 Q. What did Mr. Dewan tell you and the other recruits 2802 2803 2804 2805 2806 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 2807 ^L 2808 640 2809 2810 2811 2812 2813 2814 1 about the J & M opportunity? 2815 2816 2 A. That J & M is a shipyard, and that they are taking 2817 2818 3 us there to do work there with them. And there is a test 2819 2820 4 that will be conducted. And if we pass the test, we'll be 2821 2822 5 selected and we'll be taken there. 2823 2824 6 And that's all. 2825 2826 7 Q. Did he explain how much it would cost for this 2827 2828 8 opportunity? 2829 2830 9 A. On that day, they were saying approximately it 2831 2832 10 would cost six-and-a-half lakhs. 2833 2834 11 Q. Do you know how much six-and-a-half lakhs is in 2835 2836 12 U.S. dollars? 2837 2838 13 A. (No response.) 2839 2840 14 Q. If you don't know off the top of your head, I'm not 2841 2842 15 asking you to do math. We can figure that out. 2843 2844 16 A. Okay. 2845 2846 17 Q. Okay. So -- what visa were you going to go on if 2847 2848 18 you were selected for this opportunity with J & M? 2849 2850 19 A. Initially they said that the J & M process will be 2851 2852 20 done in three steps. And just like that, that we would be 2853 2854 21 paying in three installments. 2855 2856 22 The three steps is that the first one is they would 2857 2858 23 be applying for labor certification. At the time, we had to 2859 2860 24 pay 55,000 for three people. 2861 2862 25 MS. TSU: Will you call up Exhibit 783. I think 2863 2864 2865 2866 2867 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 2868 ^L 2869 641 2870 2871 2872 2873 2874 2875 1 that will help. 2876 2877 2 And can you zoom in on this one page so that it is 2878 2879 3 bigger. 2880 2881 4 MS. TSU: (CONTINUING) 2882 2883 5 Q. Let me just ask, is this something you received 2884 2885 6 from Dewan Consultants? 2886 2887 7 A. Yes. 2888 2889 8 MS. TSU: And could you call out the part that is 2890 2891 9 highlighted. 2892 2893 10 MS. TSU: (CONTINUING) 2894 2895 11 Q. So I believe you said that you would be required to 2896 2897 12 pay installments, three installments for three steps; is that 2898 2899 13 right? 2900 2901 14 A. Yes. 2902 2903 15 Q. Okay. And is this information that you received 2904 2905 16 about the installments and the cost of the installments and 2906 2907 17 the steps of the process? 2908 2909 18 THE INTERPRETER: Could you please repeat that, 2910 2911 19 ma'am? It's not very clear. 2912 2913 20 MS. TSU: (CONTINUING) 2914 2915 21 Q. Does the information here reflect what you were 2916 2917 22 told about the cost of participating in the program and the 2918 2919 23 three steps? 2920 2921 24 A. Yes. 2922 2923 25 MS. TSU: Could you call up the third step, please. 2924 2925 2926 2927 2928 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 2929 ^L 2930 642 2931 2932 2933 2934 2935 2936 1 MS. TSU: (CONTINUING) 2937 2938 2 Q. So -- but I think my question was, what visa would 2939 2940 3 you be going on for the J & M opportunity? 2941 2942 4 A. What they were saying is that the three processes 2943 2944 5 that they were explaining is that by the end of these three 2945 2946 6 processes, that we would be getting a green card. And with 2947 2948 7 the green card, we would be going to America. That's what I 2949 2950 8 had understood. 2951 2952 9 Q. And did you want to take this opportunity? 2953 2954 10 A. Yes, I would like to. 2955 2956 11 Q. What did you do after this meeting? 2957 2958 12 A. They said that Malvern C. Burnett is coming the 2959 2960 13 next day. And so we had to come with all of the mentioned 2961 2962 14 documents along with our first installment the following day 2963 2964 15 to Trident Hotel. I don't know if it was the next day or 2965 2966 16 after a few days. I don't exactly remember it. 2967 2968 17 Q. Did you gather money to pay for that first 2969 2970 18 installment? 2971 2972 19 A. Some money I had saved up to take a test and I used 2973 2974 20 that. And some of the money I had to -- for that I had to 2975 2976 21 pledge my wife's jewelry to get that. And then I was able to 2977 2978 22 use this. 2979 2980 23 Q. So what -- what jewelry of your wife's did you 2981 2982 24 pledge? 2983 2984 25 A. I think it was her bracelets, bangles. 2985 2986 2987 2988 2989 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 2990 ^L 2991 643 2992 2993 2994 2995 2996 2997 1 Q. Her bangle -- her bangle bracelets? 2998 2999 2 A. Yes. 3000 3001 3 Q. And did -- was there a significance to your wife 3002 3003 4 for those bangle bracelets? 3004 3005 5 A. As per our Indian culture, a woman usually wear 3006 3007 6 gold ornaments there, and that's something they would like to 3008 3009 7 do there. And they love that very much. 3010 3011 8 Q. Okay. And did you -- did you sell the jewelry or 3012 3013 9 were you pawning it with the expectation of getting it back? 3014 3015 10 A. No, I did not sell it. I just pledged -- I pawned 3016 3017 11 it and I got money from that. 3018 3019 12 Q. Okay. And between your savings and pawning your 3020 3021 13 wife's bracelets, that's how you raised the money for the 3022 3023 14 first installment? 3024 3025 15 A. Yes. 3026 3027 16 Q. Okay. And when did you next see Mr. Dewan? 3028 3029 17 A. The next time I'm seeing Dewan is at Madras 3030 3031 18 [phonetic] for the Signal interview. That's when I'm seeing 3032 3033 19 him. 3034 3035 20 Q. Okay. Did you -- did you pay a second -- the first 3036 3037 21 installment at some point? 3038 3039 22 A. For the first installment, Sachin was there and 3040 3041 23 Malvern Burnett was there. And I was in India at the time. 3042 3043 24 And for the second installment, I was in Saudi Arabia and my 3044 3045 25 brother was the one who made the payment. 3046 3047 3048 3049 3050 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 3051 ^L 3052 644 3053 3054 3055 3056 3057 3058 1 Q. Okay. So let's talk about the first installment. 3059 3060 2 Was that in Madras? 3061 3062 3 A. No. 3063 3064 4 Q. No. The Madras meeting came later? 3065 3066 5 A. The first installment I was paying in 2004, and I'm 3067 3068 6 seeing Sachin in Madras in 2006. 3069 3070 7 Q. So let's go with the 2004 date. Who was at this 3071 3072 8 second meeting when you paid the first installment? 3073 3074 9 A. Sachin was there. Saliman was there. 3075 3076 10 Malvern C. Burnett was there. And along with them, there was 3077 3078 11 a lady as well. 3079 3080 12 Q. Okay. And did you pay an installment there? 3081 3082 13 A. I paid. 3083 3084 14 Q. Who did you pay? 3085 3086 15 A. I don't exactly remember if I handed it over to 3087 3088 16 Sachin or Malvern C. Burnett. I had two drafts, one for 3089 3090 17 Michael Pol and one for Malvern C. Burnett. And I had cash 3091 3092 18 to pay for Sachin as well. 3093 3094 19 MS. TSU: Could we call up Exhibit 608, and maybe 3095 3096 20 pull out the two drafts so they are bigger. 3097 3098 21 MS. TSU: (CONTINUING) 3099 3100 22 Q. Are these records of your payments to Mr. Burnett 3101 3102 23 and Mr. Pol? 3103 3104 24 A. Yes. 3105 3106 25 MS. TSU: Could we pull out Exhibit 611, please. 3107 3108 3109 3110 3111 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 3112 ^L 3113 645 3114 3115 3116 3117 3118 3119 1 MS. TSU: (CONTINUING) 3120 3121 2 Q. And is this a receipt that you received for that 3122 3123 3 payment? 3124 3125 4 A. Yes. 3126 3127 5 MS. TSU: Is there a second page to that document? 3128 3129 6 Could you zoom in on that. 3130 3131 7 Thank you. 3132 3133 8 MS. TSU: (CONTINUING) 3134 3135 9 Q. Is this a receipt that you received from Mr. Pol 3136 3137 10 for your payments to him? 3138 3139 11 A. Yes. 3140 3141 12 Q. Mr. Pol wasn't there, but somebody handed you this 3142 3143 13 receipt? 3144 3145 14 A. I think maybe Sachin would have given this to me. 3146 3147 15 Because it's been so long ago, so many days ago, I don't 3148 3149 16 exactly remember it now. 3150 3151 17 Q. Did Mr. Dewan give you a receipt? 3152 3153 18 A. No. 3154 3155 19 Q. Were you -3156 3157 20 MS. TSU: That's all. Thank you. 3158 3159 21 MS. TSU: (CONTINUING) 3160 3161 22 Q. Were you told anything about the J & M opportunity 3162 3163 23 at this meeting? 3164 3165 24 A. No. In this meeting, there was a big line in front 3166 3167 25 of Malvern C. Burnett for people to fill out the application. 3168 3169 3170 3171 3172 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 3173 ^L 3174 646 3175 3176 3177 3178 3179 3180 1 And on the other side, there were people handing over the 3181 3182 2 checks and everything. 3183 3184 3 So it was really busy, and there was a big rush. 3185 3186 4 So in this meeting, nobody spoke anything about J & M. 3187 3188 5 Q. Did you sign paperwork at this meeting? 3189 3190 6 A. Yes. I asked the staff in front of 3191 3192 7 Malvern C. Burnett, and I signed papers as they requested me 3193 3194 8 to do. 3195 3196 9 Q. Which came first, paying or signing? 3197 3198 10 A. I think it was altogether that I had to pay the 3199 3200 11 check and do the application. 3201 3202 12 Q. And if you had been told by Dewan Consultants or 3203 3204 13 Malvern C. Burnett at this point that the opportunity was 3205 3206 14 simply a temporary 10-month visa, and that you had no 3207 3208 15 opportunity to be sponsored for a green card, would you have 3209 3210 16 paid the money? 3211 3212 17 A. If it was a free chance, then I would have gone for 3213 3214 18 it. I would not have participated in it by paying money. 3215 3216 19 Q. How long did you wait between the first step of the 3217 3218 20 process and the second step? 3219 3220 21 A. Approximately two years. 3221 3222 22 Q. Did you contact Mr. Burnett during that time to ask 3223 3224 23 for information? 3225 3226 24 A. Yes. 3227 3228 25 MS. TSU: Can you call up Exhibit 1217, please. 3229 3230 3231 3232 3233 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 3234 ^L 3235 647 3236 3237 3238 3239 3240 3241 1 And zoom in on the top e-mail, please. 3242 3243 2 MS. TSU: (CONTINUING) 3244 3245 3 Q. Mr. Jacob, is this an e-mail that you sent to 3246 3247 4 Mr. Burnett? 3248 3249 5 A. Yes. 3250 3251 6 Q. Okay. 3252 3253 7 MS. TSU: And could you call up Exhibit 1219, 3254 3255 8 please. 3256 3257 9 And highlight the e-mail there -- sorry. I meant 3258 3259 10 calling it out. 3260 3261 11 MS. TSU: (CONTINUING) 3262 3263 12 Q. Is this Mr. Burnett's response to your e-mail? 3264 3265 13 A. Yes. 3266 3267 14 Q. At the time that you received this e-mail, did you 3268 3269 15 think you were going to definitely get a green card? 3270 3271 16 A. From 2004 to 2006, at the point where the Signal 3272 3273 17 processes were started, I was 100 percent certain. 3274 3275 18 Q. You were 100 percent certain. Okay. 3276 3277 19 MS. TSU: Could you call out Exhibit -- or go to 3278 3279 20 Exhibit 1221. 3280 3281 21 And call that out. 3282 3283 22 Thank you. 3284 3285 23 MS. TSU: (CONTINUING) 3286 3287 24 Q. Is this another e-mail you received from 3288 3289 25 Mr. Burnett? 3290 3291 3292 3293 3294 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 3295 ^L 3296 648 3297 3298 3299 3300 3301 3302 1 A. Yes. 3303 3304 2 Q. And do you see the second sentence (as read): We 3305 3306 3 will keep you informed via Dewan Consultants? 3307 3308 4 A. Yes. 3309 3310 5 Q. What did you understand the relationship to be 3311 3312 6 between Mr. Burnett and Mr. Dewan? 3313 3314 7 A. That Malvern C. Burnett is processing green cards 3315 3316 8 on behalf of Dewan Consultants. 3317 3318 9 Q. Okay. Did you ever give Mr. Dewan money to pass on 3319 3320 10 to Mr. Burnett? 3321 3322 11 A. Normally we give all the checks to Sachin, and 3323 3324 12 Sachin is the one who gives to the other people. 3325 3326 13 Q. Okay. 3327 3328 14 MS. TSU: And will you call up -- can we go to 3329 3330 15 Exhibit 1215, please. 3331 3332 16 MS. TSU: (CONTINUING) 3333 3334 17 Q. I'm going to show you a series of e-mails. 3335 3336 18 Is this an e-mail that you sent to Mr. Burnett? 3337 3338 19 A. Yes. 3339 3340 20 Q. If you can read it, what's the date of that e-mail? 3341 3342 21 A. Six, but I'm unable to read what is in the center 3343 3344 22 there, and then it is 2004. 3345 3346 23 Q. Okay. 3347 3348 24 MS. TSU: Can we call up 1216, please. 3349 3350 25 And call out the e-mail. 3351 3352 3353 3354 3355 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 3356 ^L 3357 649 3358 3359 3360 3361 3362 3363 1 Thank you. 3364 3365 2 MS. TSU: (CONTINUING) 3366 3367 3 Q. Is this an e-mail that you sent to Mr. Burnett? 3368 3369 4 A. Yes. 3370 3371 5 Q. And if you can read it, what's the date on this 3372 3373 6 e-mail? 3374 3375 7 A. 10 November 2004. 3376 3377 8 MS. TSU: And Exhibit 1220, please. 3378 3379 9 MS. TSU: (CONTINUING) 3380 3381 10 Q. Is this an e-mail you sent to Mr. Burnett? 3382 3383 11 A. Yes. 3384 3385 12 Q. And if you can read it, what is the date on this 3386 3387 13 e-mail? 3388 3389 14 A. March 20, 2005. 3390 3391 15 MS. TSU: And Exhibit 779. 3392 3393 16 And could you call up the e-mail. 3394 3395 17 Thank you. 3396 3397 18 MS. TSU: (CONTINUING) 3398 3399 19 Q. Is this an e-mail that you sent to Mr. Burnett? 3400 3401 20 A. Yes. 3402 3403 21 Q. And what is the date on this e-mail? 3404 3405 22 A. 13th April 2005. 3406 3407 23 Q. Where were you when you sent these e-mails? 3408 3409 24 A. In 2005, I think I'm in Saudi Arabia. 3410 3411 25 Q. Did Mr. Burnett respond to any of your e-mails? 3412 3413 3414 3415 3416 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 3417 ^L 3418 650 3419 3420 3421 3422 3423 3424 1 A. Many times he had responded, replied, and I think 3425 3426 2 most of the times he had said to contact Dewan. 3427 3428 3 MS. TSU: Could you call out Exhibit 1218, please. 3429 3430 4 MS. TSU: (CONTINUING) 3431 3432 5 Q. Is this the response that you received from 3433 3434 6 Mr. Burnett? 3435 3436 7 A. Yes. 3437 3438 8 Q. And as you had said, he in here asked you to 3439 3440 9 contact Mr. Dewan. 3441 3442 10 Did you contact Mr. Dewan for updates? 3443 3444 11 A. Yes, I have contacted. 3445 3446 12 Q. Did Mr. Dewan or his office ever tell you it was 3447 3448 13 time to pay a second installment? 3449 3450 14 A. Yes, they did say that. 3451 3452 15 Q. Okay. And did you or -- did you pay the second 3453 3454 16 installment? 3455 3456 17 A. When I was supposed to pay the second installment 3457 3458 18 and to fill the application form and things like that, they 3459 3460 19 had send me those information to Saudi Arabia. 3461 3462 20 I filled out all of the application forms and then 3463 3464 21 I sent it back to India. And I asked my brother to collect 3465 3466 22 the money from my wife and pay them and made him responsible 3467 3468 23 to do that. 3469 3470 24 MS. TSU: Can we call out Exhibit 820. 3471 3472 25 And blow up the top two-thirds. 3473 3474 3475 3476 3477 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 3478 ^L 3479 651 3480 3481 3482 3483 3484 3485 1 MS. TSU: (CONTINUING) 3486 3487 2 Q. Is this one of the remittance forms you were just 3488 3489 3 testifying about? 3490 3491 4 A. Yes. 3492 3493 5 Q. And how much is this remittance form for? 3494 3495 6 A. 55,000 -- U.S. dollars equaling to 55 Indian 3496 3497 7 rupees. 3498 3499 8 Q. Who is the payment to? 3500 3501 9 A. I paid to all three of them. 3502 3503 10 Q. And in this exhibit, 820, who is it to? 3504 3505 11 A. For Michael Pol. 3506 3507 12 MS. TSU: Can you bring up Exhibit 821, please. 3508 3509 13 MS. TSU: (CONTINUING) 3510 3511 14 Q. Is this another remittance form that you had 3512 3513 15 testified about a moment ago? 3514 3515 16 A. Yes. 3516 3517 17 Q. And who was this remittance form to send money to? 3518 3519 18 A. To Malvern C. Burnett. 3520 3521 19 MS. TSU: Could we call up Exhibit 1889, please. 3522 3523 20 And blow up the check part of it, please. 3524 3525 21 MS. TSU: (CONTINUING) 3526 3527 22 Q. Is -- does this check reflect a payment that you 3528 3529 23 made based on one of those remittance forms? 3530 3531 24 A. Yes. This is a draft that you initially go pay the 3532 3533 25 money to the bank, and then they give you this dollar draft. 3534 3535 3536 3537 3538 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 3539 ^L 3540 652 3541 3542 3543 3544 3545 3546 1 Q. Okay. And I'm going to circle the bottom left 3547 3548 2 corner of the check. 3549 3550 3 Who or what is Mullakkal Allappuzha? 3551 3552 4 A. That's the bank that is close to my house at 3553 3554 5 Mullakkal Allappuzha. And that's where I went and paid the 3555 3556 6 money to make the draft. 3557 3558 7 But the draft was made from Canara Bank, Cochin 3559 3560 8 branch. 3561 3562 9 Q. So the circled language is a place; is that right? 3563 3564 10 A. City and then district. 3565 3566 11 MS. TSU: Is it possible to get rid of the call 3567 3568 12 out, keep this exhibit on the screen, and add exhibits 1259 3569 3570 13 to the screen? 3571 3572 14 Maybe we should just go to Exhibit 1259 first so it 3573 3574 15 can be big. Can you do that? 3575 3576 16 Could you highlight the sender, the receipt, and 3577 3578 17 then Line 13. 3579 3580 18 Maybe just blow up the whole top half of it. 3581 3582 19 Thank you. 3583 3584 20 MS. TSU: (CONTINUING) 3585 3586 21 Q. Do you see your name on this? 3587 3588 22 A. Yes. 3589 3590 23 Q. Does this -- well, let me say Line 13 has been 3591 3592 24 highlighted. Does that line reflect a payment that you made 3593 3594 25 to Mr. Dewan to give to Mr. Burnett? 3595 3596 3597 3598 3599 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 3600 ^L 3601 653 3602 3603 3604 3605 3606 3607 1 A. Yes. 3608 3609 2 MS. TSU: Now I'm going to ask you if there is a 3610 3611 3 way to split the screen. 3612 3613 4 THE COURT: Maybe we're going to take a break. We 3614 3615 5 try to break about every hour to give the interpreter a 3616 3617 6 little rest. 3618 3619 7 So you can do -- figure that out during the break. 3620 3621 8 I want all of you to remember the instructions that 3622 3623 9 I've given you, that you are not to discuss the case with 3624 3625 10 anyone, including your fellow jurors. 3626 3627 11 We'll come back at 11:30. 3628 3629 12 (Jury out at 11:23 a.m.) 3630 3631 13 (A recess was taken.) 3632 3633 14 AFTER THE RECESS 3634 3635 15 (Call to order of the court.) 3636 3637 16 THE COURT: Bring them in. 3638 3639 17 We're going to break for lunch at 12:30 or 12:35 3640 3641 18 for planning purposes. 3642 3643 19 (Jury in at 11:37 a.m.) 3644 3645 20 THE COURT: Be seated. 3646 3647 21 MS. TSU: Could we please bring up on the screen 3648 3649 22 Exhibits 1259 and 1889. 3650 3651 23 MS. TSU: (CONTINUING) 3652 3653 24 Q. Mr. Jacob, my question to you here is what is the 3654 3655 25 demand draft number on Exhibit 1889? 3656 3657 3658 3659 3660 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 3661 ^L 3662 654 3663 3664 3665 3666 3667 3668 1 A. 16450. 3669 3670 2 Q. And looking at Exhibit 1259, the letter from 3671 3672 3 Mr. Dewan to Mr. Burnett, do you see in the DD number column 3673 3674 4 that same number, 16450? 3675 3676 5 A. Yes, I'm seeing it. 3677 3678 6 Q. Okay. And so just to confirm, Exhibit 1889 is a 3679 3680 7 payment you made to Mr. Burnett? 3681 3682 8 A. Yes. 3683 3684 9 Q. Did you pay Mr. Dewan in this second installment? 3685 3686 10 A. Yes, I did. 3687 3688 11 Q. How much did you pay him? 3689 3690 12 A. 55,000 Indian rupees. 3691 3692 13 Q. And did you get a receipt from him? 3693 3694 14 A. No. 3695 3696 15 Q. Where did you get the money to make this second 3697 3698 16 installment payment? 3699 3700 17 A. The second time around, I was in Saudi Arabia. I 3701 3702 18 was making money, so I actually had saved up some money. 3703 3704 19 And then I had paid off the money to get the 3705 3706 20 jewelry from the -- I got the money back -- got the jewelry 3707 3708 21 back that I pledged earlier. 3709 3710 22 So when I was making the second installment 3711 3712 23 payment, I had the money from my savings and I also had to 3713 3714 24 re-pawn some of the jewelry. 3715 3716 25 Q. And what jewelry did you pawn of your wife's this 3717 3718 3719 3720 3721 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 3722 ^L 3723 655 3724 3725 3726 3727 3728 3729 1 time? 3730 3731 2 A. Some of her bangles and a chain. 3732 3733 3 Q. What is the importance of the chain to your wife, 3734 3735 4 if any? 3736 3737 5 A. It's -- during the wedding you put on the chain, 3738 3739 6 which is considered to be holy. Only if the situation is 3740 3741 7 very bad -- only then someone would be either selling the 3742 3743 8 chain or pawning the chain. 3744 3745 9 Q. And this is what you pawned to get the money for 3746 3747 10 the second installment? 3748 3749 11 A. Yes. 3750 3751 12 Q. How did your wife feel about that? 3752 3753 13 A. She was not interested to do it, but then again she 3754 3755 14 thought that it would be leading to a good future and that's 3756 3757 15 why she got ready to give that to me. 3758 3759 16 Q. What would it mean for your wife and you if you did 3760 3761 17 not get back the chain? 3762 3763 18 A. That it would affect our good relationship. 3764 3765 19 Q. I'm sorry, I didn't understand. 3766 3767 20 A. If I did not get that jewelry back to her, then it 3768 3769 21 would have affected the husband-and-wife relation. 3770 3771 22 Q. How would it have affected the husband-and-wife 3772 3773 23 relationship? 3774 3775 24 A. This chain, which is considered to be holy, a 3776 3777 25 symbol of wedding, that she should be wearing. And when she 3778 3779 3780 3781 3782 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 3783 ^L 3784 656 3785 3786 3787 3788 3789 3790 1 goes out, if people in my hometown would see that, that she 3791 3792 2 is not wearing this chain, then they would accuse me, that I 3793 3794 3 had fallen down and had gone so bad that I -- that they will 3795 3796 4 find fault in me and they would do that. 3797 3798 5 And father-in-law, too, had accused me that I would 3799 3800 6 be losing all the money that I earned because of this 3801 3802 7 American chance. And he was also finding faults in what I 3803 3804 8 was doing. 3805 3806 9 And all this time my wife would be encouraging me 3807 3808 10 saying that this will happen, this will work out and we can 3809 3810 11 go there. 3811 3812 12 Q. The recruitment we've talked about so far was for 3813 3814 13 J & M; is that right? 3815 3816 14 A. Yes. 3817 3818 15 Q. At some point you transferred to the Signal 3819 3820 16 recruitment, correct? 3821 3822 17 A. Yes. 3823 3824 18 Q. When was it that you transferred from J & M to 3825 3826 19 Signal for the recruitment process? 3827 3828 20 A. In 2006, November. 3829 3830 21 Q. And what happened to the J & M process once you 3831 3832 22 transferred to the Signal process? 3833 3834 23 A. I did not understand. 3835 3836 24 Q. Yeah. Okay. Well, let me step back, then, and ask 3837 3838 25 the -- what were you told about the Signal opportunity? 3839 3840 3841 3842 3843 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 3844 ^L 3845 657 3846 3847 3848 3849 3850 3851 1 A. What happened is that when -- I came to India from 3852 3853 2 Saudi Arabia on a vacation, and I was returning back and I 3854 3855 3 had the flight ticket all taken and I was supposed to leave 3856 3857 4 the next day, that night one of my friends called and told me 3858 3859 5 that Sachin from Dewan Consultants was taking people to 3860 3861 6 America and did I not receive any calls from him. 3862 3863 7 The next day, Saliman's office is some distance 3864 3865 8 away from my home so I went to see him there. 3866 3867 9 Saliman said that, yes, we are taking people for a 3868 3869 10 company called Signal International, and if you're interested 3870 3871 11 in participating in that, you should get the receipt for 3872 3873 12 5,000 rupees for a visa fee and then you should come to 3874 3875 13 Chennai by November. 3876 3877 14 Q. Did you go to Chennai in November? 3878 3879 15 A. At the time I asked Saliman more details about this 3880 3881 16 opportunity. And he was saying that this is a nine-month 3882 3883 17 visa, and then they would renew it two times, and then they 3884 3885 18 would process the green card. And if you're interested, you 3886 3887 19 could participate in this. 3888 3889 20 So the same day I canceled my flight ticket to 3890 3891 21 Saudi Arabia, and then I went to Cochin. And I went to the 3892 3893 22 head of the bank to get that 5,000 rupees visa stamping fee 3894 3895 23 receipt. 3896 3897 24 Q. Did you meet with anybody from Dewan Consultants 3898 3899 25 there in Chennai? 3900 3901 3902 3903 3904 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 3905 ^L 3906 658 3907 3908 3909 3910 3911 3912 1 A. In Chennai they had organized the meeting in a 3913 3914 2 place that is similar to a workshop. They have also 3915 3916 3 organized a test to be done there too. 3917 3918 4 We went there the night before and we stayed in a 3919 3920 5 hotel there. And then the next morning, we went to the shop 3921 3922 6 with the address they had given us. 3923 3924 7 Q. Who was at the shop that morning? 3925 3926 8 A. The shop, Sachin Dewan was there, Saliman was 3927 3928 9 there, and Signal International's superintendent, Mr. Shouse, 3929 3930 10 was there. And in that meeting, Sachin was talking about 3931 3932 11 H-2B visa and Signal. 3933 3934 12 Q. Okay. What did Mr. Dewan say about H-2B visas and 3935 3936 13 Signal? 3937 3938 14 A. That you are going on an H-2B visa to a company 3939 3940 15 called Signal International. And Signal International -3941 3942 16 that after you go there on an H-2B -- you are going for nine 3943 3944 17 months on an H-2B visa, and then it will be renewed after you 3945 3946 18 go there. 3947 3948 19 That they would be renewing two times the visa. 3949 3950 20 And then they would process the green card -- that Signal 3951 3952 21 would process the green card. 3953 3954 22 Q. Where was Signal's superintendent, Shouse, at the 3955 3956 23 time Mr. Dewan was saying these things about the H-2B visa 3957 3958 24 and the green card? 3959 3960 25 A. He was standing behind Sachin, close to him. 3961 3962 3963 3964 3965 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 3966 ^L 3967 659 3968 3969 3970 3971 3972 3973 1 Q. About how close? 3974 3975 2 A. Very close. A foot or a foot-and-a-half away. 3976 3977 3 Q. What language was Mr. Dewan speaking in? 3978 3979 4 A. Dewan was speaking in English and Hindi. 3980 3981 5 Q. And the statement about the H-2B visas and the 3982 3983 6 green card, what language was that spoken in? 3984 3985 7 A. Mostly he was speaking in English, but when any 3986 3987 8 Indians would be asking him for a clarification or doubts at 3988 3989 9 the time, he would be speaking in Hindi. 3990 3991 10 Q. So was he speaking in English when he said that 3992 3993 11 Signal would sponsor you for an H-2B that would be extended 3994 3995 12 two times and then Signal would process the green card for 3996 3997 13 you? 3998 3999 14 A. Yes. 4000 4001 15 Q. Did any of the Signal employees correct him? 4002 4003 16 A. No. 4004 4005 17 Q. At that time, what did you understand the 4006 4007 18 relationship to be between Mr. Dewan and Signal? 4008 4009 19 A. When Sachin was talking to us in the meeting, a 4010 4011 20 person asked some question about -- what all the current 4012 4013 21 processing that is happening now. 4014 4015 22 And then he had raised his voice and spoke to him. 4016 4017 23 And after that, everyone else became quiet and we just 4018 4019 24 listened to what he has to say. 4020 4021 25 Q. Okay. I think there might have been some 4022 4023 4024 4025 4026 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 4027 ^L 4028 660 4029 4030 4031 4032 4033 4034 1 confusion. Let me ask my question again. 4035 4036 2 When Mr. Dewan told you that Signal would process 4037 4038 3 you for H-2B, extension, extension, green card, what did you 4039 4040 4 believe the relationship was between Signal and Mr. Dewan? 4041 4042 5 A. What I understood is that he was -- Sachin was 4043 4044 6 recruiting people to work for Signal International. 4045 4046 7 Q. Did you believe that Signal International had 4047 4048 8 authorized Mr. Dewan to offer you an H-2B visa for Signal 4049 4050 9 followed by extensions and green card processing at Signal? 4051 4052 10 MR. UNGAR: Objection. Speculation. 4053 4054 11 MS. TSU: I'm asking about his understanding. 4055 4056 12 THE COURT: Overruled. 4057 4058 13 A. Normally when recruitment like this happens, there 4059 4060 14 would be -- the company's client will be there and then the 4061 4062 15 recruitment officer will be there talking to people. 4063 4064 16 So when Shouse and Sachin was there, we thought 4065 4066 17 100 percent we -- I trusted 100 percent that 4067 4068 18 Signal International would be processing the green card. 4069 4070 19 MS. TSU: (CONTINUING) 4071 4072 20 Q. How much did this Signal opportunity cost? 4073 4074 21 A. Other than the other processing I had to pay, 4075 4076 22 additionally 33,500, something like that. 4077 4078 23 Q. And you had, at this point, made two installments 4079 4080 24 on the J & M process, correct? 4081 4082 25 A. Yes. 4083 4084 4085 4086 4087 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 4088 ^L 4089 661 4090 4091 4092 4093 4094 4095 1 Q. And was that all you paid, the two installments and 4096 4097 2 then the 33,500 rupees? 4098 4099 3 A. No. They said if you are wanting to participate 4100 4101 4 and go on the H-2B visa, then the future payment, the third 4102 4103 5 installment, needed to be paid then and there before you go. 4104 4105 6 Q. Who said that? 4106 4107 7 A. Sachin. 4108 4109 8 Q. And did you believe that Signal had authorized 4110 4111 9 Sachin to charge money? 4112 4113 10 A. Normally that's what happens. And even for 4114 4115 11 recruitment for other countries, the agency is the one that 4116 4117 12 collects the money so that's what we believed. 4118 4119 13 Q. Did you pay that third installment? 4120 4121 14 A. I paid the third installment. 4122 4123 15 Q. Okay. When did you pay the third installment? 4124 4125 16 A. The third installment I paid by going to Sachin's 4126 4127 17 office in Bombay. 4128 4129 18 Q. Before you paid that third installment, did you 4130 4131 19 interview at the U.S. consulate? 4132 4133 20 A. Yes, I participated. 4134 4135 21 Q. Was that interview for the H-2B visa or the 4136 4137 22 green card? 4138 4139 23 A. For H-2B visa. 4140 4141 24 Q. And what -- were you given any instructions about 4142 4143 25 what to say or not say at this interview with the 4144 4145 4146 4147 4148 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 4149 ^L 4150 662 4151 4152 4153 4154 4155 4156 1 U.S. consulate? 4157 4158 2 A. Yes. We had to go to Sachin's office and there 4159 4160 3 were some preparations to be done. They were preparing 4161 4162 4 documents there. 4163 4164 5 And at the time, we were told not to mention 4165 4166 6 anything about a green card, not to talk about a green card, 4167 4168 7 because that would cause any confusion. And that we are 4169 4170 8 going on a H-2B visa, and we should only talk about H-2B visa 4171 4172 9 there. 4173 4174 10 Q. Who told you this? 4175 4176 11 A. Mr. Sachin. 4177 4178 12 Q. And did Mr. Dewan tell you anything else about what 4179 4180 13 to say or not say at the consulate? 4181 4182 14 A. Yes. If they were asking about any visa fees, that 4183 4184 15 we should say the visa processing fee of 33,500 only. 4185 4186 16 Q. And at the consulate, did the consular ask you how 4187 4188 17 much you had paid? 4189 4190 18 A. No. 4191 4192 19 Q. What were you asked at the consulate? 4193 4194 20 A. When I gave my file to the consular, the -- the 4195 4196 21 consulate, he asked me how many years of experience I have. 4197 4198 22 At the time I told him that I have 10 years of experience. 4199 4200 23 And then the officer looked through my file, and 4201 4202 24 then he said that I could go. And that my passport will 4203 4204 25 be -- I could get my passport from the agency. 4205 4206 4207 4208 4209 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 4210 ^L 4211 663 4212 4213 4214 4215 4216 4217 1 Q. And did the consular ask you anything about 4218 4219 2 green cards? 4220 4221 3 A. No. 4222 4223 4 Q. Did you get the passport from the agent? 4224 4225 5 A. When they took the passport from me, I did not know 4226 4227 6 if the visa is stamped already or if I'm selected or not. 4228 4229 7 After that, I went to Sachin's office. At the 4230 4231 8 time, Sachin told me I could return back to my hometown and 4232 4233 9 that he gave me the details for making arrangements for the 4234 4235 10 next money to be paid. 4236 4237 11 MS. TSU: Will you bring up Exhibit 784, please. 4238 4239 12 MS. TSU: (CONTINUING) 4240 4241 13 Q. Mr. Jacob, is this -- are these the details that 4242 4243 14 Mr. Dewan gave you about the payment to be made in the next 4244 4245 15 month? 4246 4247 16 A. Yes. 4248 4249 17 Q. And I see that there's a statement about an amount 4250 4251 18 to be paid to Mr. Burnett and Mr. Pol. 4252 4253 19 Were you to pay Mr. Dewan as well in this third 4254 4255 20 installment? 4256 4257 21 A. Yes, I paid. 4258 4259 22 Q. And I notice that here it speaks about 4260 4261 23 employment-based permanent residency for Signal, but doesn't 4262 4263 24 talk about the H-2B. 4264 4265 25 Did you ask Mr. Dewan about this? 4266 4267 4268 4269 4270 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 4271 ^L 4272 664 4273 4274 4275 4276 4277 4278 1 A. Because Mr. Dewan had explained these things many 4279 4280 2 times in the meeting, we did not ask him. 4281 4282 3 Q. Did you believe you were going to get a green card 4283 4284 4 from Signal? 4285 4286 5 A. Yes, I believed. 4287 4288 6 Q. Did you believe that it was a certain thing? 4289 4290 7 A. Yes, I believed. 4291 4292 8 Q. Why did you believe it was a certain thing? 4293 4294 9 A. The reason being is in the previous two processes 4295 4296 10 that they did, they had applied for labor certification and 4297 4298 11 labor certification was approved. So we got a good belief, a 4299 4300 12 trust that they would be able to do it. 4301 4302 13 Q. Did you understand, when you were in India, how 4303 4304 14 green card processing in the United States worked? 4305 4306 15 A. I did not know anything about American immigration. 4307 4308 16 Q. What was the source -- who or what was the source 4309 4310 17 of your information about American immigration processing? 4311 4312 18 A. Most of the information that I received is from the 4313 4314 19 e-mail communication that I had, and then from Sachin Dewan. 4315 4316 20 That's how I have gained all my information. 4317 4318 21 And while all this processing were happening, 4319 4320 22 during that time period a computer or Internet was not that 4321 4322 23 easily available. 4323 4324 24 Q. Okay. So -- when you talk about the e-mails, you 4325 4326 25 were referring to the e-mails such as the ones that we saw 4327 4328 4329 4330 4331 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 4332 ^L 4333 665 4334 4335 4336 4337 4338 4339 1 earlier today? 4340 4341 2 A. Yes. 4342 4343 3 MS. TSU: Could we call up Exhibit 0057, please. 4344 4345 4 MS. TSU: (CONTINUING) 4346 4347 5 Q. Is -- are the checks in Exhibit 0057 representative 4348 4349 6 of the payments that you made to Mr. Burnett and Mr. Pol for 4350 4351 7 that third installment? 4352 4353 8 A. Yes. 4354 4355 9 Q. And to whom did you give these demand drafts? 4356 4357 10 A. To Sachin's office. 4358 4359 11 Q. Did you get a receipt for these last payments? 4360 4361 12 A. I don't remember. 4362 4363 13 Q. Did you pay Mr. Dewan anything for the last 4364 4365 14 installment? 4366 4367 15 A. Yes, I did. 4368 4369 16 Q. And in addition to the third installment payment to 4370 4371 17 Mr. Dewan, did you have to pay for your airfare? 4372 4373 18 A. Yeah. The third installment, airfare, and money 4374 4375 19 for the H-2B visa. 4376 4377 20 Q. And how much was that final installment to 4378 4379 21 Mr. Burnett? 4380 4381 22 A. What I paid to Burnett is $1,460. 4382 4383 23 Q. I'm sorry, how much was the payment to Mr. Dewan? 4384 4385 24 A. One lakh and 33,000 rupees. 4386 4387 25 Q. So how much did you pay in total at the -- for the 4388 4389 4390 4391 4392 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 4393 ^L 4394 666 4395 4396 4397 4398 4399 4400 1 recruitment that led you to get the job at Signal? 4401 4402 2 A. I think I had probably spent about six-and-a-half 4403 4404 3 lakhs. 4405 4406 4 Q. Do you know -- I don't know if you figured this out 4407 4408 5 since I first asked, but do you know approximately how much 4409 4410 6 that money is in American dollars? 4411 4412 7 A. Based on the value during that time, I think it was 4413 4414 8 $14,500. 4415 4416 9 Q. How long would it take you to earn 6.5 lakhs at the 4417 4418 10 job that you had in Saudi Arabia? 4419 4420 11 A. At least three years. 4421 4422 12 Q. And if Mr. Dewan had told you at this meeting that 4423 4424 13 you would be going to the United States on the H-2B visa 4425 4426 14 only, and that Signal was making no guarantee about even 4427 4428 15 sponsoring you for a green card, would you have made your 4429 4430 16 third installment payment? 4431 4432 17 MR. UNGAR: Objection. Speculation. 4433 4434 18 THE WITNESS: No. 4435 4436 19 MS. TSU: It is calling for his state of mind at 4437 4438 20 the time. 4439 4440 21 THE COURT: I overrule. 4441 4442 22 MS. TSU: (CONTINUING) 4443 4444 23 Q. Where did you get the money to make this third 4445 4446 24 payment? 4447 4448 25 A. For the third installment, I had to sell 240 grams 4449 4450 4451 4452 4453 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 4454 ^L 4455 667 4456 4457 4458 4459 4460 4461 1 of my wife's gold ornaments. And my wife's father -4462 4463 2 father-in-law gave me some money. And I had some money with 4464 4465 3 me, so I had put everything together to pay them. 4466 4467 4 Q. What is a crown? You said I think 240 crowns. 4468 4469 5 THE INTERPRETER: Grams. 4470 4471 6 MS. TSU: Grams. Thank you. My mistake. 4472 4473 7 MS. TSU: (CONTINUING) 4474 4475 8 Q. Did you sign anything when you paid the third 4476 4477 9 installment? 4478 4479 10 A. On that day when I was giving money at Sachin's 4480 4481 11 office, I had signed some papers. 4482 4483 12 Q. Who had your passport at the time you signed the 4484 4485 13 papers? 4486 4487 14 A. Passport was with Sachin. 4488 4489 15 Q. Had you already paid your money at the time that 4490 4491 16 you signed the papers? 4492 4493 17 A. When you go to his office, the first thing that 4494 4495 18 they do is collect the money from you and then they count the 4496 4497 19 money. And if everything is okay, then they would say, Sign 4498 4499 20 those papers, and we have to sign that. 4500 4501 21 MS. TSU: Could you show Exhibit 790, please. 4502 4503 22 MS. TSU: (CONTINUING) 4504 4505 23 Q. I apologize. This is something I meant to show you 4506 4507 24 earlier. 4508 4509 25 Is this something that you received from Dewan when 4510 4511 4512 4513 4514 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 4515 ^L 4516 668 4517 4518 4519 4520 4521 4522 1 you talked about the documentation he gave you before making 4523 4524 2 the third installment paper -- payment? 4525 4526 3 THE INTERPRETER: Could you ask the question again? 4527 4528 4 MS. TSU: Sorry. 4529 4530 5 MS. TSU: (CONTINUING) 4531 4532 6 Q. Did you receive this from Dewan? 4533 4534 7 A. Yes. 4535 4536 8 MS. TSU: And could you blow up the bottom third of 4537 4538 9 employer sponsor's part. 4539 4540 10 Would you translate the Paragraph No. 1, please. 4541 4542 11 THE INTERPRETER: (Complies.) 4543 4544 12 MS. TSU: (CONTINUING) 4545 4546 13 Q. When did you get this document from Mr. Dewan's 4547 4548 14 office? 4549 4550 15 A. When -- just about a few hours before we left to go 4551 4552 16 to the airport at the time. 4553 4554 17 Q. And so you got this from Mr. Dewan in his office in 4555 4556 18 Mumbai? 4557 4558 19 A. Yes. 4559 4560 20 Q. Does what is reflected in Paragraph 1 match with 4561 4562 21 what you understood the process to be? 4563 4564 22 A. I did not have enough time to read all of these 4565 4566 23 things over there. When we went to their office, what they 4567 4568 24 did is just to lift up the bottom of the paper like this 4569 4570 25 (indicating), and then made us to sign and put the 4571 4572 4573 4574 4575 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 4576 ^L 4577 669 4578 4579 4580 4581 4582 4583 1 fingerprint. And that's what they did. We did not have 4584 4585 2 enough time to read any of this at the time when we were 4586 4587 3 reading at the office. 4588 4589 4 Q. How many people were processing through Dewan's 4590 4591 5 office with you? 4592 4593 6 A. I think when I arrived there at the office, there 4594 4595 7 was about approximately 40 people there. 4596 4597 8 Q. Are these all people who are processing through 4598 4599 9 paying their third installments and planning to head out to 4600 4601 10 Signal that night? 4602 4603 11 A. Yes. 4604 4605 12 Q. Did you ever get a green card from 4606 4607 13 Signal International? 4608 4609 14 A. No. 4610 4611 15 Q. Did you ever get a green card from Mr. Burnett? 4612 4613 16 A. No. 4614 4615 17 Q. Did Mr. Burnett ever file a green card application 4616 4617 18 listing you as the beneficiary? 4618 4619 19 A. No. 4620 4621 20 Q. Mr. Burnett never filed an I-140 for you? 4622 4623 21 A. He filed it. 4624 4625 22 Q. When was that, that he filed? 4626 4627 23 A. I don't exactly remember the date. I think it is 4628 4629 24 sometime in 2007. 4630 4631 25 Q. Did you know that Mr. Burnett was going to file 4632 4633 4634 4635 4636 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 4637 ^L 4638 670 4639 4640 4641 4642 4643 4644 1 that application for you in 2007? 4645 4646 2 A. No. 4647 4648 3 Q. Who was the employer that it was sponsored for? 4649 4650 4 A. After many days is when I got the receipt, and in 4651 4652 5 that receipt I think it was for J & M. 4653 4654 6 Q. You had e-mailed Mr. Burnett during the time of 4655 4656 7 your recruitment, right? 4657 4658 8 A. Yes, I would send. 4659 4660 9 Q. And in 2007 were you still using the e-mail address 4661 4662 10 that you had used to contact Mr. Burnett? 4663 4664 11 A. Yes. 4665 4666 12 Q. Did Mr. Burnett or anyone from his law office 4667 4668 13 contact you before filing this application? 4669 4670 14 A. No. 4671 4672 15 Q. Did -- was the application approved by the 4673 4674 16 U.S. Government? 4675 4676 17 A. No. 4677 4678 18 Q. Okay. I want to ask you about your impressions 4679 4680 19 about when you first arrived at Signal. 4681 4682 20 MS. TSU: Would you show Exhibit 789, please. 4683 4684 21 And maybe zoom in on the bottom half. Thank you. 4685 4686 22 MS. TSU: (CONTINUING) 4687 4688 23 Q. Mr. Kadakkarappally, do you recognize this 4689 4690 24 document? 4691 4692 25 A. Yes. 4693 4694 4695 4696 4697 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 4698 ^L 4699 671 4700 4701 4702 4703 4704 4705 1 Q. What is it? 4706 4707 2 A. This is my visa for me to come to America. 4708 4709 3 Q. Do you see the highlighted portion that says 4710 4711 4 Signal International, LLC? 4712 4713 5 A. Yes. Yes. 4714 4715 6 Q. What is the significance of Signal's name being on 4716 4717 7 your visa? 4718 4719 8 A. That that visa is for Signal International, LLC. 4720 4721 9 Q. Could you work for anyone other than Signal? 4722 4723 10 A. No. 4724 4725 11 Q. When you arrived at Signal, were you given a choice 4726 4727 12 of working in Texas or in Mississippi? 4728 4729 13 A. No. I actually asked them -- requested of them 4730 4731 14 that I wanted to go to Texas, but they rejected it. 4732 4733 15 Q. Why did you ask to go to Texas? 4734 4735 16 A. People -- some of my friends, who I came to meet in 4736 4737 17 India -- that I wanted to stay with them, I would like to 4738 4739 18 stay with them, so I asked. 4740 4741 19 Q. Were they in Texas? 4742 4743 20 A. Yes. 4744 4745 21 Q. Did you get a choice about what trailer you were to 4746 4747 22 live in? 4748 4749 23 A. No. 4750 4751 24 Q. Was Signal's man camp full with all the Indian 4752 4753 25 workers it had received when you arrived in December of 2006? 4754 4755 4756 4757 4758 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 4759 ^L 4760 672 4761 4762 4763 4764 4765 4766 1 A. I don't know that. We when arrived to Signal, it 4767 4768 2 was nighttime. And then they showed a trailer number, and 4769 4770 3 then asked us to go sleep there. 4771 4772 4 When we went into the trailer, there were already 4773 4774 5 some people there. And where there was an empty spot, we had 4775 4776 6 to go sleep there. 4777 4778 7 Q. And how many people ended up staying in your 4779 4780 8 trailer? 4781 4782 9 A. Twenty-four people. 4783 4784 10 Q. And when you first set eyes on the man camp, what 4785 4786 11 was your first impression? 4787 4788 12 A. When I saw the man camp, I was upset. I did not 4789 4790 13 expect an accommodation like this in America. While I was 4791 4792 14 working in Saudi Arabia, even though it was a free 4793 4794 15 accommodation, they had put us in much better accommodations 4795 4796 16 than this. But even -- here, even after paying for this 4797 4798 17 accommodations and they had given us bad accommodations like 4799 4800 18 this, I was really disturbed. 4801 4802 19 Q. And that first night when you arrived at Signal, 4803 4804 20 were you glad for a bed to lie down in? 4805 4806 21 THE INTERPRETER: You could please repeat that, 4807 4808 22 ma'am? 4809 4810 23 MS. TSU: (CONTINUING) 4811 4812 24 Q. When you arrived that first night, you said it was 4813 4814 25 night, were you glad for a bed to lie down? 4815 4816 4817 4818 4819 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 4820 ^L 4821 673 4822 4823 4824 4825 4826 4827 1 A. We had come here after 21 hours of flight journey, 4828 4829 2 and we were all tired so wherever place we could find, we 4830 4831 3 laid down there and slept. 4832 4833 4 MS. TSU: Could you show Exhibit 808, please. 4834 4835 5 MS. TSU: (CONTINUING) 4836 4837 6 Q. Mr. Jacob, does this picture accurately show the 4838 4839 7 insides of the trailer to which you were assigned by Signal? 4840 4841 8 A. I was living in this trailer. 4842 4843 9 Q. Will you point out where your bunk was. 4844 4845 10 A. This person, who is sitting here, his name is 4846 4847 11 Sajeesh [phonetic] and my bed is close to him over there. 4848 4849 12 Q. Is your bed touching Sajeesh's bed? 4850 4851 13 A. It is eight beds attached together. It's like a 4852 4853 14 unit, four beds on one side and four beds on the other side. 4854 4855 15 Q. And so is your bed the bed that is attached to 4856 4857 16 Sajeesh's bed? 4858 4859 17 A. Yes. There was just one wood piece that is a 4860 4861 18 division. 4862 4863 19 Q. How did you feel about sleeping so close to another 4864 4865 20 person? 4866 4867 21 A. That was very disturbing. Even without me telling 4868 4869 22 you, you could guess that. 4870 4871 23 Q. How sturdy were the bunks? 4872 4873 24 A. They are not that much strong. When we are 4874 4875 25 climbing up the ladder, the whole thing would shake. 4876 4877 4878 4879 4880 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 4881 ^L 4882 674 4883 4884 4885 4886 4887 4888 1 Q. And where did you store your luggage? 4889 4890 2 A. The locker that is seen there, that is what they 4891 4892 3 had given us. Each individual got a locker. 4893 4894 4 And the width is about a foot. And the top up 4895 4896 5 there is a square for one foot, and then the rest was a long, 4897 4898 6 lengthy one. My suitcase was about approximately 2-foot long 4899 4900 7 and 1-foot wide, and that I was unable to fit in that so I 4901 4902 8 had to keep my suitcase on the bed that I was lying down. 4903 4904 9 Q. Where did you put your suitcase when you were 4905 4906 10 sleeping? 4907 4908 11 A. I think the bed was like four by six so in one 4909 4910 12 corner I would keep the suitcase and on one side I would be 4911 4912 13 lying on to sleep. 4913 4914 14 Not only me. Most of the people that were living 4915 4916 15 in that room, they were keeping their belongings on their own 4917 4918 16 bed. 4919 4920 17 Q. For how many weeks or months did you sleep with 4921 4922 18 your suitcase on your bed? 4923 4924 19 A. Throughout the time that I was in Signal. 4925 4926 20 Q. The picture that we have here, is that how wide the 4927 4928 21 walkway was between the beds? 4929 4930 22 A. Yes. 4931 4932 23 Q. And can you describe for the jury what it was like 4933 4934 24 for you to be sleeping in a trailer with 23 other men? 4935 4936 25 A. In the morning -- I think I told you about this, 4937 4938 4939 4940 4941 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 4942 ^L 4943 675 4944 4945 4946 4947 4948 4949 1 but that tube light that is there is on top of my bed. So 4950 4951 2 each time when someone is going to the bathroom, that tube 4952 4953 3 will be switched on. Just like that, the bathroom is -- was 4954 4955 4 next to my bed on the other side, and there is about a 3-foot 4956 4957 5 distance between the bathroom door and my bed. Each time 4958 4959 6 someone goes to the bathroom and when they flush, I hear the 4960 4961 7 sound of the flush and I would wake up. 4962 4963 8 So I was not getting any good sleep at all. And I 4964 4965 9 was unable to sleep properly. And without getting proper 4966 4967 10 sleep, I was -- I could not go to work for the next day, too, 4968 4969 11 properly. So if I don't go to work the next day, then we 4970 4971 12 have to still pay the company the money for us to stay there, 4972 4973 13 so I -- even though -- no matter how much of difficulties 4974 4975 14 that I had to have, I had to still go to work because they 4976 4977 15 would cut the money from the following day's work. 4978 4979 16 Q. How many times a night would somebody go to the 4980 4981 17 bathroom on average? 4982 4983 18 A. There were 24 people living there. And from my 4984 4985 19 memory, if I could recollect and tell, until 12:00 at night, 4986 4987 20 my job used to be like counting how many people were going to 4988 4989 21 the bathroom because I was so much disturbed about those 4990 4991 22 things. 4992 4993 23 This space that you are seeing (indicating), that's 4994 4995 24 where four people have to change their clothing in the 4996 4997 25 morning to go to work. 4998 4999 5000 5001 5002 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 5003 ^L 5004 676 5005 5006 5007 5008 5009 5010 1 Q. Did you have a problem with the lack of privacy? 5011 5012 2 THE INTERPRETER: Could you please say the question 5013 5014 3 again. 5015 5016 4 MS. TSU: (CONTINUING) 5017 5018 5 Q. The lack of privacy, did it affect you? 5019 5020 6 A. Exactly. It really affected me. There was no 5021 5022 7 privacy at all in that camp. 5023 5024 8 THE COURT: Ms. Tsu, let's take our break for lunch 5025 5026 9 right now. 5027 5028 10 I want to remind the jury of the instructions I've 5029 5030 11 given you. Until the trial is over, you're not to discuss 5031 5032 12 the case with anyone, including your fellow jurors, members 5033 5034 13 of your family, people involved in the trial, or anyone else. 5035 5036 14 If anyone approaches you and tries to talk about 5037 5038 15 the case, do not tell your fellow jurors but advise me about 5039 5040 16 it immediately. 5041 5042 17 Also please remember, you are not to reach any 5043 5044 18 conclusions in the case until all the evidence has been 5045 5046 19 presented, the Court has instructed you on the law, and it is 5047 5048 20 given to you for deliberation and decision. 5049 5050 21 So we'll come back at 1:40. 5051 5052 22 (Jury out at 12:39 p.m.) 5053 5054 23 THE COURT: All right. I want to tell the lawyers 5055 5056 24 that the jurors asked the courtroom deputy and/or the marshal 5057 5058 25 about whether they could ask questions, and I want you all to 5059 5060 5061 5062 5063 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT 5064 ^L 5065 677 5066 5067 5068 5069 5070 5071 1 think about your response over the lunch hour, how you feel 5072 5073 2 about it and what you want me to tell them. 5074 5075 3 I have -- I believe I have, in other cases, allowed 5076 5077 4 jurors to write questions and give them to me with no 5078 5079 5 guarantee that they would be asked, but that I would 5080 5081 6 communicate them to the lawyers. 5082 5083 7 Another option is for me just to, when they come 5084 5085 8 back in, say I know that y'all have asked about asking 5086 5087 9 questions but that is not allowed. 5088 5089 10 And maybe you have some other ideas about options, 5090 5091 11 but those are the two I can think of, so why don't y'all 5092 5093 12 think about it over lunch, and we'll discuss it when we come 5094 5095 13 back. 5096 5097 14 MS. HANGARTNER: Thank you, Judge. 5098 5099 15 MR. HOWARD: Thank you, Your Honor. 5100 5101 16 (End of morning session.) 5102 5103 17 * * * * 5104 5105 18 CERTIFICATE 5106 5107 19 5108 5109 20 I hereby certify this 16th day of January, 2015, that 5110 5111 21 the foregoing is, to the best of my ability and 5112 5113 22 understanding, a true and correct transcript of the 5114 5115 23 proceedings in the above-entitled matter. 5116 5117 24 5118 /s/ Mary V. Thompson 5119 25 _______________________________ 5120 Official Court Reporter 5121 5122 5123 5124 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT