DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353?l25 1 U.S. DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS SEVCA LAY DGWN Waghingtonf ETC. Wednesday, M?y 16, 2012 ANDERSON COURT 706 Duke Streat, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone {703} 519w?180 Fax AF2272.0001 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353?l26 USVAAEQIEXOSJIE {m3 PARTICIPANTS: GENERAL ERIC SRINSERI .Secretaryg DQpartmERt of Vet?tan~?ffairs GOULD ELENN NEARY WALTERS NATHAN RAILOR -JOHN SPINELLI TIM RQGANI DENNIS MILSTEN PHILIP MATROVRKI -WILLIAM SCROENRARED QUICKER JAMES SULLIVAN RQNRIE MIRANDA PATRICIA VANDERRERG -CARILYR BQSWELL LINEI RGFF RALPH GIGLIGTTI ELIOIT VANRERSIEK GEFFREY ANDERSQN COURT 7?06 Duke Streat, Suite' 100. Alexandria, VA 22314 Phona ?703) Fax AF2272-0002 AF2272.0002 DenveEmphase2m??oup2m0353927 JOHN GENERICH JQEN MOONEY W. TODD GRAMS PETZEL PHILLIPE ANDERSON GEORGE SEWEECMEN ROGER w. BAKER SIEGEL BQYD WILLIEM LEVEY WILLOUGHBY CHRIS KYRGOS FATE GARY SANTIAGO MONTALVO ANDERSQN COURT REPQRTENS ?06 Duke Streat, Alexandria, Phona ?703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0003 AF2272.0003 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353?l28 mate, pleaae. :3 plml) Just a'quick We are Still awaiting a?ordination'from same 0f the affiaes on the mimutes and the actien items from ApriL ask yQu_please mat COQrdinated on thosg, this week. both Of those were duei 18th and our 38th meetimga. I would If you have if yam would pLease do SQ I?d appreciate itd MECLETARY SHINSEKI: WhQ-are yam-waiting on? MR. ECRETARY SHINSEKI: them out here? SECRETARY SHINSEFI: SHINSEKI: gwttea anything m??ti?g, Rodger; Phone Doctcr Petzel, Whe? Wha are1yeu Waiting on? 30 I'm'gbi?g to have.to fat Yeah? Okay. Being palite hasn't Gkay. 'Fer the April 18th yaur offia?, Todd, Steve MHrro and general counsel. ANDERSON COURT REPORTING 706 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 (703} 519w7180 Fax 519w?190 AF2272-0004 AF2272.0004 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353?l29 5 MR. PETZEL: Well, it?e'niee te be in.geod company. We'll get this te you quickly. MR. From the Sector ?etzel, Bennie, your ofiice, Steve MquO NEA, QM, GIT, ERA, GC, and thet?ll do it. 80 if yew weuld please do those, I?d appreciate it 50 I don?t tet yeu cut at the next meeting. MR, PETZEL: It*ll be dame before the end of' the day, MR. I appreciate that; SECRETARY SHINSEKI: I?m.eure it will, MR. Okay, 'Meving to the next Slide, please. This ie teday?e agendei We?ll etatt with a review at the action items, the Scheduled briefings, and the Denver Case Study, finally, We still list and review that action items under development and that i3 becauee den?t have final from everybody. Se enee I get-final and Gommente beck, we?ll start to leek them deem. The aetien items that ycurre lacking through, there?s a substamtiel number of aetion items ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272-0005 AF2272.0005 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353930 USUAegelzj??fl? 5 that ate coming due effective June the'let. SO we?ll be putting Out a taeking to those Offices that haqe taekinge ?ee to remind yeud And-I?m going to aek fer you ta have them tQ-my affine by May the 30th, 80 we can eempile them-and-et the June let meeting, give the secretary at least-an indication of whether or net we are on track t0 cemelete those respective Eh leaking-at how wefd like t0 try to close I some of these taskinge mey'be.more eempliceted than ethere and require.multiple pegee. But What I am asking you to do if that-i? the We?ld you pleege juet give a one~pege executive summery, top Of the line highlighting of these that we can put forward. Once we compile be sending them out to the council members ?at their review& And thoee instructions will be part of the Verg package that comes t0 you. if we eoeld_new turn to the aetien iteme. The first two elidee here are frem'eur'May 9th meeting. As you can see, welve ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272-0006 AF2272.0006 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m035393?1 7 aeeig?e? OWDEIS in support, but We will need te get with you'thie week t0 agree to the aetien due dates for these respective tastings. If yeu'd g0 te slide -m I*m sorry, go to eiide three, the-me de'yeu have these that are highlighted, air? Do you have these? Okay, eh slide three the three areae that are highlighted, they were due yesterday. They have in fact; eempieteda Papers will be.eiteulated to the couneit.members providing ihfermatiOh and background en eaeh ?ne of these thihge fer your information. If we ge to elide eight, there wag a pretty rohuet dieeuseien at-eur first meeting 'With regard to the authority that cut ccatxactiag effieete held relative t0 Change orders and the value of these change orders. What we have worked with eeuneil.ee.and have put ih place 18 that the contracting effieere fer New Grieane and for Denver will have their authetity raisee to That?s complete. We?re geihg te .he.wetking the details to make Sure we get the deviatiene from the VAR and the and procedures ANDERSCN COURT 706 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, va,22314 Phene {703) Fax Ely-319$ AF2272-0007 AF2272.0007 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353932 8 are'put in place. GOULD: I think my reselleetien was that a.bigget number would have been, at least an the fade ef'it, more useful. Can you briefly describe what'the was for coming te the 259 and what the- eehetraihte were that you were dealing with? NEARY: I think te.make e.qeiek.chahge, the logic that we use in Otlahde. We else believe that there?e more money to be made in pram eutel improvements and we have-a team wetting threugh that, targeting the next couple ef-weeke.te Share oer exietihg of tracking these ehaegee ta idehtify and then process the peihte Where we can mete Streamline imprevemehts. Se we?ll epeed it up; Sgeed ie really the preblem here er delays that take place. MR. POGANY: If the proeese changes thet we heve.in'mihd go into effect and yeu?re.the ftehtline pereen working in this Genetraiht, hew mueh faster and what?s the Standard that we*ll new meet tegethet whieh when Combined with the 250,000 makee?thie'werkable, ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272-0008 AF2272.0008 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353933 9 Servieeable; efficient? NEARY: Yeah, there?s really a geed'bit ef given the complexity of the change an& the value of the Change. We made'well going?tarwand to.prepese to raise the levels at all. Right new there?s a VAR requirement of $100,000-abeve that required legal review. In ome reapentsf it?s a UJ question at eur eenfidenee in the people Qn'the grannd. la theSe big jobs we have a let of confidence 1 in the people in contracting that are Kenning these jebei the thinge we?re leaking'at la 0 ft One seeking a VAR Change that weuld give the ability t0 management to allow higher threeholde baeed on individuals' experience and the cenfidenee that we have~in them. In terms of having tn.eet a number of days, l*m not sure that?e really reagenable'glVen Some Changee are very small or relatively Small changes. Same eeuld be much mere eemplex and large? But nut .L. team ie looking at that and will be Gaming back with recommendations Oh how to address these issues} ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272-0009 AF2272.0009 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353934 10 SECRETARY SHINSEKI: ef change order? MR. NEARY: Pardon me? SECRETARY SHINSEKI: What?s the average-Size ef the change order? We?re increasing autheritiee here but I don't knew what the scale is. NEARY: Wefre just thinking average mea?i the average size 0f aLl Change erdere aCress the enterpriee is probably fairly email. Lese than SECRETARY SHINEEKI: than $10610001 {a this-gives much more flexibility te 00?s? MR. WILLOUGHEY: That i5 ??treCta SECRETARY SHINEEKI: We?ve get GQES here; don?t we? MR. NEARY: Right. SPEAKER: Thaddeue ie a MR. NEARY: Thaddeus ie from Denver. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: :3 thie a help? A little.bit? Not enough? ME. WILLOUGHRY: It would help a great deal ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0010 AF2272.0010 DerivermPhase2mGroup2m0353935 11 behauee some of the times there?s "m as they Were sayihg, some of them are simple and some of them are complex; And the complex ones are ?he ones that'we work through a long time and then'we'have to Send it up for review. And it te?es a long-time again because then weive got to go back through the whole process again to explain it mm to make 063 feel comfortable ahd at_that time we mm it takes a long timee SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Well 256?s about righte 13-500 better? MR, WILLQUGHBY: That'e about right. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: about right? MR. WILLOUGHBY: Yesr Sir; SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Any-others? Anyone onlihe have a comment here? Okayd You're goimg to live-with it for a while. And we cen_leek at it. It*s an interim We can always leek-at it and See if it needs to be increased based_oh the that wePre running into, SLCRETARY SHINSEKI: 13m trying to get eome ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272.001 1 DerivermPhese2mGroup2m0353936 12 momentum here? I?m trying to get same momentum and not ?e SPEAKER: This is Stacy from New Orleans. I have to agree with what Denver i8 saying in the difficulty in acceptance time. The modificatieh takes a long period of time when yen have ptojeete the size ?enver and New Orleansi Even befere we Step-e project (ihaudibieim Cehttectore have getteh ea tited_ef.it taking 80 long to approve the Change order that they are refusing t0 centinue beyond what a change order will take them to. So that usually gete them thteugh the first 'menth, .And then if they take ienger thah three Gt feur weeke for me te get this apprevedi they Step-work and it ends up with issuesi 250,008 will certaihiy help} The higher that limit can be, the better end it will be in the field t0 run the prejeet emeethly and run it efficiently end.te keep them. jmevihg ae heeded. MR. GOULD: If we combined emeumt'?ith a he longer than 14 days or some time'thihg to capture a 5-4 ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272-0012 AF2272.0012 DerivermPhese2mGroup2m0353937 13 yeat=oote point which a combination-of the-amoUnt of .money and now timely the responee is on the paperwork When you go to council for approval. Joe: for purpoeoe-of discussion, why wouldn?t a quelity? etendard that includes both amount and get no the momentum that we?re looking-for? NEARY: I think that we?d.do thati I?ll ask Phillipe to comment, but first I wouid point out that one of the other things we?re doing i3} We?re going'to provide payroll dollars to the-general council to hire three additional ettorneye within Phillipa?e office to work on their Side on thESe issues. So thet?ii help a3 welli Bot Phillipa, you want to comment? M84 ANDERSGN: I think the additional m" with the-additional attorneye right now-we have one Senior attorney and two junior attorneys working the -mejor construction program as well a3 a deputy. With the aodition of the two additional attorneye for major oonetruotion and one additional attotney for teases, we?ll be'able to have one attorney dedicated to eeoh ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0013 AF2272.0013 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353938 usveegelzje?fle 14 ef'the.feur mm the mejor prejeete; Denver; erande, and New Orleans. Se think that that time will be we will be able to turn areund the Chahge ordere much more quickly? When cenferrimg with ?m when Bab eeked-me te weigh in an the 250,000 inereaee, it?s really met a legal issue ee much as a business risk issued 30 if the "m the legal the Centracter wanting to desire to regerve its-rights to Claim additional coer later. We have a very unique change order provisiom in whieh we limit the gentractore overhead under $780,000r 'We jeeleuely' protest that. vatien has been challeeged befere the eeurte and even appealed :e the federal circuit; We've wen on it and that result.d in a savings.of millions of dollars. Se-thet ie Qne why we want te be a part of that review. So that we are net-waiving our rights. But the 253, we will be able te turn it around given the ed?itional eupporr that we_have. And think 250 mu we.eeuld teet it ahd it would be up to, yen know, the management ef the ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272-0014 AF2272.0014 DerivermPhase2mGroup2m0353939 15 facility*s folks ts decide whether to ineresSe it. But again, it's a business risk assessment, I think reviews GOULD: Can ysu comment'on the timeliness issue? ANDERSON: The timeliness issue-"F-eur provision nu tim? 0 meney for Changes u?der SO if a Change results in activity sr duration time of an additional 1 day, 0 days, 1 day; 33, 60, it means the same ts us. -39 time is not necessarily a teeter in direct change orders mm the setivity duration for a shangem MR. GOULD: So my questien Was, yes if' ysu take guy who's en mu ANDERSGN: Oh, time to review? MR. GOULD: Yeah, itfs the-time sf.review Ms? ANDERSON: Oh, okay] The time to review mm I?m-sorry, I missed that. The time te.review-will we we will be able to mm I think less than 14 days. II :msam, we?ve done it. I mean, sur time-to reView is mueh'less than l4 days. If the seekag? is semething ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272-0015 AF2272.0015 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m035BQ4-O 16 that is ready right for revi w. With the additienal attorney for each 0f the majors, we think that we?ll be-able to expedite the and thai atterhay will-know that particular project, will knew the reaident engineers and the contracting-officer, amd that goes a long way to a quick review. GOULD: Bees it "m a.laet quick question. De you eemmunieate the time that yen HEed the anewer back when you Send the request? M34 ANDERSON: 0h, yes, They dea MR, GGULD: And every time it?e.right awayf MS. ANDERSQN: Yee. MR, Okay, get it; Get it; All Eight. 30 there?s no profit to be had in terme of a service level agreement with you Saying, leek, this when I need it tomorrow? Thie is when I need it next week? Would that assist in Phillipa?e triage deeisiene and get yeu better custemer service? MR. WILLOUGHEY: Yea, it'Weuld get ue'bett eue?emer'eerv1ee. And as you said befere, there?s a a ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0016 AF2272.0016 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353?l4?1 USUAegeizj??fl? 17 Our attetney have had communicatiens with the RAE and the contracting staffa They help.expedite real quick when you have that type of.teiatiohehip. BAKER: Does it make eenee me I knew on the teehnelegy side that we have atterney reviews of the that we're deing like at the Kinaudibie). But wouldn?t it make.een5e te u" if yen wili harmenize the ameunts that ate-geiEQ te require certain things in both Sides? SO I-mean m~ are we gei?g'tu basically say, leek ii we?re geing te 250, it*e the beard, requires a legal review no matter'whet type of thing yeu?te nguiti?gp MS. ANDERSQN: There i3 HeidiStinCtiOn'i? the legal teviewe fer Change ordered There?e 250 change Orders across the heard, I mean, the legal it? in -net mm we don?t distinguish between majors, and minors? And I?d like tQ add'that perhage, we should. Red the major mm the resident engineer staff partieulariyr they?re mete u" they.have expertiee in the critieal ate methed scheduler. ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0017 AF2272.0017 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m035BQ4-2 UsVA?zdl-zmsma .18. MR. BAKER: But going heyend 'Whee we've get a $590 million contract in place eh.IT, We_whht to de a ehahge etdet for $253r000. can We-de the same if we have the same issues? We do have mm we de have an l?:that lays Out the type of Gentraet it is, thee-the Value.ef the contract te the value Qf-thet Change greet-which then mm it?s in a matrix-which thee triggers the contracting Officer to-ge back to Or not 'have te go back to GC. I knew in the last couple of years we?ve revised it at least Ghee te tty to start t0 mete these thresheld levels up so it's net Sueh'a burden in the time. And it's Gettaihly "e i think We were geihg t0 start taking enethet run at this t0 take another look at on whether er we should ehee again review those thresholds. ANDERSON: And to your questieh, Redgex, I deh?t know whether there was a distinctieh in ehehge erder for types at contracts. l*m.geihg to ge cheekt we?ll leek at that. MR. BAKER: I?ll just say teem my-experiehee ANDERSON COURT REPORTING 706 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 223l4 Phone (703} Big-"7180 Fax {303;} AF2272-0018 AF2272.0018 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m035BQ4-3 usvgeg?izj??fl? 19 and it.Was a real Shock to my system ih coming'ihte the VA, we have legal review mm we have a lawyer review-ae?uisltiehs at the VA dewh to a much smaller level than we ever did at Commeree? Kind of looking ever the acquieitien Shoulder. I theught at Cemmeree it was either $20 million at mu it was gamethihg pretty-significant before legal ?u befere GS get ihvelved. We want acquisitions With deihq full acquieitionsd M34 ANDERSON: Yeah, and remember; it is eemething that we should revvieit. But before the IT and national and enterprise wide Gentreeteg We didn?t haVe the $20 million ET contracts. 'ec that?s Che So it is semethihg that We m" end that?s the solicitatien review mm i3 worth rewvisitihgt SECRETARY SHINSEKI: EVerybody Cemferteble with that? And that covers the vaet -mejerity of our change ordere. MR: NEERY: It inereaees the number Qf ehahge.hrders. I don't have the data With.me but it weuld increase the number of change orders ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272-0019 AF2272.0019 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m035BQ4-4 20 Signifieahtly that could he executed without legal review} SECRETARY SHINSEKII he get momehtum here and provide, you khOW,-With acceptable tiek, a flexibility at the local level t0 make deeisiehe te get the prejeete movihgl Gkay? 250? All righti SPEAKER: Okeya SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Befere we are there any off this task list anyone.hae any questions ebeut? And there are going te be mere added te thie item today. The Object hf Whet'we'te tryieg here is to underetahd What's requiree and to put together a that gets us the cehstruetiOh project executien, yen knew, with eeme here? Now we?ve done ell the right things and we?ve squeezed out the ihe?fieieneies and eppertuhitiee to make the right call et-the right time eerteetly that we?ve by her collaboratieh, have-Created a that squeezee.thet eutl So if we think the is collecting ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0020 AF2272.0020 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m035BQ4-5 usm-Amlz-msxm taskers and at the end of thie the process will somehow be rewborh, it*e not going to.happeht These taskers just tell us what gape we have, what we haVe to do. We still have to put all of this together and enewer.the, eo whatl Gut of all of-thie, eo whet? Whet'are we going to do? What is the How do we Support the medical center directors whe have respeheihilitiee on the ground? How do we-mahe sure Contracting officers are properly trained and chartered? That's why wejre doing thieq And So, I look at the list and I see a lot of Sullivan eh here, I see a lot of Neery on here,-ahd I see a lot of Matkoveky am here. ?nd they?re hot the Whole precess. They?re-e good portion of it but-they're not the whole procees. So my expectation ie whether you ever appear on this task or not, that you?re paying attention, And wheh.the time oomee and we say, So what are we geing to.do to Change, there?s a ohorue of that gay, in_my area if you did this, this weuld help, Dr in my area if you did'that it?e going to create-problems. Just because you?re not on the ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax Eigln?llg? AF2272.0021 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m035BQ4-6 22 tasking list doesn't mean you?re not in the precessl .And yen have to be ready to make a ee?tributien to make.this process better. Okay? Red the ringmaSter for our meetings ie Glenn Eut he?e just the ringmaeter. Ard all Of us have a rele t0 play herel Okay? Glenn? Schedule. The schedule in your packet ie DEE. By the Side Of'yeur packet there Shauld.be a revised schedule that-wee late breaking newej But as you can see, all the'initial areae that we had intended to cover when the secretary created the review ceuncil, will be completed by mid June. And werll gs from there. You didn?t get it? Here; Thet?e ceurteey of.Jaekiel MR. GGULD: And I?ll ceordinate it with the Chiefw MR. Thet*e.eeurteey of Jackiel Gkay, Se.with that we'll get Started, And I?ll turn it ever to Lynette, MS. RUFF: Qkay. Thank-you very much. I ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone {703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0022 AF2272.0022 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m035BQ4-7 23 appreciate being here to give the.eoneteuction.conncii and overview of the Denver Projectx end I thought that probably it would be a good idea firet'l to giVe you a little background about VA eastern Colorado heelth.oere system for those that nonit know about itt And to-the secretary, I'd say some of this is a repeat, so I hope you don?t mind the redundancy. This showe the map of Coiorado. And be?i?eiiy, the cetohment area and the service area for VA Eastern Colorado is the entire front range of Calorado, extending into western Kansas. So we have a very large territory that we .And we have 12 arees that we prayide Service te-veterane in eastern Colorado. And we xenge frem the very smallest clinics which are in Saiida ane Burlington which are our primary care teleheeith clinics where we see about 500 patients through tel-eheelth1r that ie actually game to them from Puebloi Golorado with one of out providers, to our largeet outpatient clinic which is in Colorado Springs which has about veterans that we-eerve'and'ie growing ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272-0023 AF2272.0023 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m035BQ4-8 usveeg?lzf??fl? 24 by'leape and bounds. The ether thing is, is that we are l.ef facilitiee in VISN 19 . And so we haVe referraig fram many of our sister facilities in Cheyenne, Fert Herrieone Grand Junetien, and Sheridan; 30 we are the tertiary'center and thoee services that we can?t provide by telehealth frequently; Our patiente do travel for servicesi We have expeneiene planned? jNet only-the-replaeement facility, but-Celerade Springs is doubling in size and that will FY13jand 14; Our Lekeweed clinic ie.geing'frem.21209 Square feet to 35,000 Square feet; -?nd we are else repleeimg the Puebla Clinic where emf leaSe expiree and they weuld net renew it. SO in the yeere 13 and 14, we are going to be activating 3 relatively Large clinics. And this year "n this be activating the 40 bed domiciliary thet_Will Dose: prebably in Auguet and September. SO we have lot of activity.going on in additien ?e ?he replaeement feeility. The next slide basically shame ear work load; ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272-0024 AF2272.0024 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m035BQ4-9 Hem-4m: 25 And in FY11 we Saw approximately unique veterane and we've ehjeyed a relatively large growth, In the last 2~years, appreximateiy'14?pereeht and-be??eeh ?05 and '11, a 38 percent increase in unique.eerve. So the veterans in Eolerede are using; VA-ahd-what we?re seeing is that?the mu actually? the penetratieh rate is higher with more veterans seeking Gare-in our facilities? So we?re very that; The next slide basically just ail'the Services we previde and in a hutehell, ether than ergan traneplant we provide almoet every clinical Service that is availabiei And We?re grand Of thati We-heve-a very active affiliation with the Univefsity ef'COlorado Hoepital, with about l3? residents. We have an active research program with 151 primary inveetigatore. And we juet recently Opened a community referral center in Five Points as a genter'for homeless in the heart 3f the city. Se that?S'geihg on fine. might mentien when we-talk-ahout ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272-0025 AF2272.0025 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353950 26 requirements "m and i knew the seeretery'ie-alWeye saying, haw did you define the requirements? When we defihed the requirements for the replacemeht facility, almoet every ene of these programs wee ineerpereted into that requirement development. "The Only Ghee that may not have, have been programs that have heeh added since the planning started Which wenld be the DGM 3 but thet?e outside Of the replacement facility, and Some-of the outreach clinics, Se now we?re geing to ge into the Wh- eenetruetien and the Study. .And this is just-basically the outline. We are-geing to try'to roiiew mu i guees you?d call it the menu heard, that we-heve in front of us. One er the things thet we?ve tried te do was to put items ehronolegically because as.we-ge through, yeu?ll realize that there-wee let Qf hack and forth in the planning fer the hehver feeilitiee. And 80 mm and they mm initially we tent everything that hae with the DenVer replacemeht hospital from 2096 to 2068 or 9 in the ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272-0026 AF2272.0026 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m035395?1 27 And th?n when we finally'get t0.the prOjQCt as it Stands taday, that goes farward, So we didnYt-?o a lot 0f back and forth and a lot 0f redundancy beaauge what y0u*ll learn is that thiS pr?ject hag a lot Of histery and a let 0f cenfugiun in the procesgi And so sometimes in trying tQ put-the baCkground tegether, we may have mi?sed a Caupla paintg but it?s just our corporate hiStoryg It?s net aS-gOQd &3 maybe it could have SO we*re geing tm'start.0ut in 2009 um yeg? SECRETARY SHINSEKI: At same:point though, that Cbrperate history becomes ina?ruC?iVS in hot repaiting it. And 50 not today, but ?t Same point that.need3 to be part of this discuSsiOn. Ms. ROFF: Qkay, SECRETARY SHINSEKI: And I succeeding Secr?taries played a major role in thiat And we've just ta figure Gut how ta make a plan and stigk ta it; MS. RUFF: I would agree. It?s di?fimult. ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Streat, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phona ?703) Fax AF2272-0027 AF2272.0027 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353952 23 Inga-301r the University of Colorado made a that they were geing t0 be relocating t0 the farmer Fitteimmons Army base. erd.at that point in time, the director whose name wee Terry Batlinet, werked with tne'Univereity of Colerede Hospital preeident te etert talking about, would it be time for the VA te meve a5 Well. At that point in time, the University nf Celerado Hospital was right the Street item-the We Were actually going back em: forth with patients Sometimes, with Staff, and with pregremew And eo,?the University at Coloredc eetually hired a CenttaCtet and that contractet etatted develeping 'medele that pctentielly could be used-fer VA te relocate onto the Fitzeimmene Army mm fermer'krmy And they looked at statue qunu contracting fer the facilities, renovating the existing facility, pr 'movingt And then when they Started talking abent mneing'they talked about, eheuld-we be integrated? Should we be a standalone? And this eempany ANDERSCN COURT REPORTING 706 Duke Street, Suite 1-3-50. Alexandria, VA 2231-4 Phene {703) Fax HOS). AF2272-0028 AF2272.0028 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353953 usvhegelzj??fl? 29 rehemmehded at that time that we sheuld be an integrated model fer the Uhiver?ity'ef Celerade and An?.there were all degreea Of integratieh. The?e Gould-have been an integrated mm when we were in the bed tower with the Uhivereity Qf Geleredee had separate amhuLatory care centers, had a separate CLO, and-patentially was an Occupant Of One of their research tewers. SO it wee many different.models, but the idea was an 15 come join us? Be a partner with we, Ahd.ih September, the Uhiversity ef-Colorade Hespitel preside?t Sent a letter to a Mr. Friheipi and he saie? we'heed a commitment and that dammitment heeds t0 be within a year which wag a very Sheri plehhihg horizon fer VA. And then VA actually'eighed a contract with B002 Allen Hamilton and Beez.Alleh Hamilteh.took a look at the whole capital_a$set program; had a risk benefit analyeigf and they came back a: that time as well and said, we think_yeu Sheuld'meve. Their infraetructure was eld,'it was too ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272-0029 AF2272.0029 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353954 30 Costiy to renovate, and you should be int?grated.ihtd the University 0f Colorado health care.system and be part'of that. And then Mr; Principi asked the within VA ta take a leak at it-as wellw And thhy looked at a number of different modeig. They actually added two additiomal medals we CQuld Lock at. But from what I cculd gather; they never came up with a definitive EECOEMEhdatioh? SC that was all through 2002. And then-finally w? MR4 GQULD: Was the motiVa?iQh dh ?hdS? juSt very briefly; predominahtiy that better'care could be achieved for'veterana by ihtegratihg the two sygtems Or was it easentially a M34 ROFF: It was tossmupl GIGLIOTTE: it was efficiency. MR, GOULD: It wag efficiency? MR. GIGLIGTTI: Yeah, yeu had a situatian wher? yau?d have either a VA Ward_and a Univergity ?i ward-d? Coulacated wardg. That Wag to be debathd. And the-ancillayy Servicag WQuld be under'oha ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Streat, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phona ?703) Fax AF2272-0030 AF2272.0030 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353955 31 gevernmeht. SPEAKER: MR. GIGLIOTTI: The ways it was_presented t0 MS'wee; if we were were efficient, fine we de it. If the University ie more efficient, we?d Say ut eh, we?re subservient to them. As we kind of got dawn that.trail a little bit; it became pretty clear we Were-geing te be subservient in every oee_in their U1 0 eyee; And that was one of the deal breakere, I thi?km MS, ROFF: And Mr. Giglietti wee here at the time-a3 the aeseeiate director te'wee invalved in a let at these planning meetings; And ircm What I gather} ie what he'S Saying is, being subeervient i5 we1w0uld.loee many capabilitiee and wOuld be m" kind of become the caeh cow for the Univereity of Celeredo Heepital; MR. GIGLIGTTI: Right. Because particularly if there-mes cowloeated wards a funding perspeetive; we would juet be buying our care item the University. And the feeling was, we probably would ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272.0031 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353956 USUAegelzj??fl? 32 get a geod rate for the first couple mm three years? but when eur infraetrueture is totally remeved, we have.hO-elternative. GOULD: Okay, Thank-you; M84 ROFF: Yeah, 80 then in 2392, Mr? Principi sent a letter back to the University Of Colorado president and he said he needed mere time to Geheider the Optiene, And he remOVed the option ef having a joirt tower with VA and the Univereity of Celerade. And he identified a vetgrah i?ehtity gevernments which was a huge factor. The CARES pregram had just Started at that partieeler paint in time? And 50 they were talking abeut the CARES pregtem-and then what about the budget that wee Eequiredw He did not take off the.idee of beieg can loeeted next to them in a different type ef streeture, but just.didh?t Say we wanted :0 be totally integrated with them. So that was 2002. And then in 2003, the Uhder Searetery of Health chartered a plaeeihg' eemmittee to develep a Denver federal facility. 80 ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272-0032 AF2272.0032 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353957 33 befere.that peried of time, DOD waeh?t part ef'the precees. New BUD enters the precess with VA. And- they ha?.a group that was Chartered by James Fleyd'whe was the director at Salt Lake City at the time; And the group recommended-that there be jeiht federal facility on Fitzeimmehe aed it would'he Vhb?b? And pretty much it was one tower-with beds in that tower on we unite for DOD. I thihk there was about 10 beds that were .And there weuld he an amhulatery care Structure that-would be a VA ambulatory care etrueture and DQDT It wee Separate-but in the same building and At that time I believe we were going ts wave cu: research pregrem inte Still, the University of Celerede Research Center. We were going to teke our-CHE or whet wee the nursing heme et that peried Of timer eed try re eeulee'te it an the campus next he the Stete*veterene Nursing Heme. Se that was the plan at that time. _Did I get it right? MR. GIGLIGTTI: Yeu get it rightw ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272-0033 AF2272.0033 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353958 34 MS. ROFF: All right. Glad t0 heat that. .Ahd then in 2003, VISN 19 identified the need for 9L2 eqUate_feet plus an thank you. Bid.I-do it? I eah*t read that. Fer the We replacement facility and FCIY What-i3 net included in there end.whieh ie a little bit foggy, in thie 912,000 square feet, they-did hat identity Space fer DOD when it was submitted t0 CARESJ This was just the VA SO they identified 41,000 Square ?eet gap in. impatient, 291,900 square foot gap in detpatient; and theh the need for a 33 bed or it may have been ei26 bed Spinal card injury unit. And.that-Wae edbmitted SECRETARY SHINSEKI: So even the 912,000 estimate was met a complete "m it wee shert at that point? Gr was it mm MSG ROFF: Well, I wouldn?t Say.at that point it_wes short. I would say at that paint{ when they Submitted it they did not ineorperate I deh?t knew why the rationale vae behihd that. Bet I believe that they were at that point, thinkihg'ehout ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0034 AF2272.0034 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353959 usvgeg?lzj??fl? 35 abeut square feet fer an outpatient elieie for DOD, But I den't know what the ratienale was. MR. GIGLIGTTI: With the i?ternal deadlines wephadg DGD cauldn?t meet them. We kept trying t0 work with them but they weren?t able te deliver a preduetr SECRETARY SHINSEKI: 912 severed all of ear requirements based an all those Specialty and Gare provisiOnS? M34 RUFF: ?t that time} SECRETARY SHINSEKI: And what wee the camperieeu te the existing, whatever, square footage that we Were operating in? RQFE: Right now we-hed about 650,000 square feet. And that campaeses everything right new; Then in 200 Mr. Bureau whe wee then the netwerk director, received a concept 0f Operatiqns paper that he made a to the Under Secretary of Health and said we needed ?e preceed with. facility. And we needed te Share same-high-? coat?eervieer with the University of ?alerade and that ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0035 AF2272.0035 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353960 DSVA?zalexesfla 36 Zmed, Surgery, and beda be in the federal tamer and there be an urgent care unit and an ambulatory eate buiiding. And then we were given $l50,000'fer'advanee .planning funde. ?e still continue-ta talk with the University Of Colorado Hospital about acquiring -preperty that we eeuld build the iaeility en adjaeent te_them? SO the talks Gentinued about having me being' elese bit but we were just not going to be integrated with them. Red that continued. Amd then we had ah ID IQ architect that came in and did the space plan that identified "u we need abeut a 1.4 millien square feet; New in that 1.4 millie? SQuate feet i?dl?ded everything we had talked abeut befere. We were geing te add the effiee in there. In that lee millien square feet we were also going to be having DOD in that Square footage and the HAG had requested abeut 160,830-te 150,030 square feet in-that facility, as "well: So juet added in VISN, DOD, I thiak that 'waa it_at that period at time. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Tell me 0 AMBER-3.0M COURT REPORTING 706 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone {703} Fa}; AF2272-0036 AF2272.0036 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m035396?1 usvhegelzj??fle 37 MS. RDFF: The Health Acquisition Cehter; SPEAKER: Administratieh Center? MR. GIGLIOTTI: CEO. RUFF: The And they are down the etreet frem us in Derver I think they have ebeut 300,000 Square feet right now. SPEAKER: Yeah. Undereetimeted What they HeEded, Sorry MR. GOULD: Exactly, I think HAG Or the ahproge committee and then the So I?m.eff in.& different world. Se whe ie it that you need ehether 150,006 square feet in addition he the ameunt that.wae requested? Who puts that ih? is the HAG in yeur parlance a VHA entity? RUFF: The HAG is VH. MR. GOULD: So one Of our ewe} And basically, they look at it and is it because they?re ueihg the medel and coming up with diffe-eht ealeulatiehs for your space needs beeause they?re levyihg different requirements? MR. GIGLIOTTI: They see a bue'ahd they?re ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0037 AF2272.0037 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353962 33 Locking far a seat. MR. GOULW: I see. Weakem the statien'and get What.we want. Qkay. And that gats yOu to l.4 million a? MS. ROFF: That brought.uS-up t@ 1.4 millie?. MR. GOULD: "u square feet Of it gees t0 DOD at this'peint. just w" MS. RUFF: Oh, no, no. I said DGD wag in there. MR. GOULD: DOD i3 in there; WISE i5 in there; HAG. MS. ROPE: VISN, DOD, and the HAG as wait as the V?-medical center. MR. GOULD: Okay. MS. RUFF: Okay? And now it?s gcing to keep changing; so just um I hate to say it, but it?g gging ta kaep Changing (laughter). MR. GOULD: And is any.part Qf this.madel gemerated at this point, or have we_yet ta de?elap that'capability where we can translate back in your ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Streat, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phona ?703) Fax AF2272-0038 AF2272.0038 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353963 usvaeselzj05/1s 39 ehevren Chart where you Can take all these-different specialties and put them through.a model and-hi MS. ROFF: Right. GOULD: mm come up'with a square foot? M84 RUFF: We used back then mm for beet ae I can recall, was the health oarejplaneieg model? All right?- And the health care planning medel took a look at what services that you have and what your capacity was as Well as; what your projected-need was and leaked-at it based on a market. That market wae oentral Colorado and it leoked at it by eneeuntere of VA VA population, and projeeted foreard. What'yoe would need in terms of ad?itional visits, And then that was applied ?n the best I can talk.to mm about a space criteria that says, if you specialty encounters, you need number of.square feet. If you have number of primary care encounters, you need number of square feet. And projeots the bed days of care that you will need. So LQ a model. However, during this it was applied period-of time, as you can imaginey'the models ANDERSQN COURT ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0039 AF2272.0039 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353964 4g ehangzed1r the criteria mm the spade criteria change; a new criteria Game in as we started.leeking at haw Keepitals were being planned today Verena I?myeers age. -Rnd the space criteria at eeme pointe wee quite aid and needed to be updated. 30 mm SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Haw far-forward did you project? When you said project ?u RGFF: We prejected w" whee we get there. ail ri ht? Because we?re still not to Denver C3 yet; We pxojeeted, I believe, i? was t0'2 SECRETARY SHINSEKI: And 30 just thinking abeut that projection, haw well d0 yea think yQu're able'te See u? You know mm SECRETARY SHINSEKI: I?m'trying tO-get a feel for} you know, 0w good our estimates are} MSG ROFF: Let me say that the prejectiene fer ZQEGiright new Show, one, a declining veteran pepuLetion and a deelining number Heweverf what it us is an ihereaeing' dependence. And so right now what we?re we'we have ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272-0040 AF2272.0040 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353965 Hem-4m: not hit that downward trend, at leaet in.Dther, we continue to see more relia?oe. So What I?ve beeh told, and I can?t remember'epeeifically; that many of the targets and the projections have been pretty much on from the paet n? say item 2609 to So it?ll be interesting to see, but a lot of it will be depending on, I guess, the options that veterans have-for health care and it they will conti?ue to beeome more teliant on us or not, SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Th? health care planning model ie still being used or it?e no longer used} haVe been modified, or where are we? MR. MATKOVSKY: Sorry, I was juSt mm the heelth care delivery model, SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Yes. MR. MATKOVSKY: So it?e part of'what we-use, so.it*e factored. It is part of what we use. i-mean, it?s factored into SCIP, it?s factored into the decisigng. SECRETARY SHIISEKI: IS there a.way for HS to-go and dielwemdate confidence level here on thie ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272.0041 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353966 42 thing?? I mean, we?ve got Some data paintg hate Gm estimates aging the medal in ZGOQ. 'We.are new eight yearg d?Wn the rmad. MATKOVSKY: We?ve been dcing that in a fEW-select casea and I think we Shauldj We?ve.been going'back and leaking at, you knaw, what did the mcdel predict for this year? Whare.are we new? SO wele take the tasker SECRETARY SHINSEKI: here from.OPP? MR4 We?ll take the tasker-back' and.make Sure that an we juat checked the fidelity Of the Humberg, SO in gulO, we can lose that in What is it if the 2012 isn?t what we Said, a: 2014? Let?S make ment?l note and We?ll dc that. M34 ROFF: I can tell yeu.anecd?tally fram what-I recall in conversations in De?ver that it has been fairly accur&te. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Fairly-accurate? MS: ROFF: SECRETARY SHINEEKI: Ahd'thia madel, Wh?? YOU Came'up with the squara footage was ii by araa-of ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Streat, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phona ?703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0042 AF2272.0042 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353967 usveegelzje?fle 43 died?esien, specialty care, primary'earef 80 ?at enly1is it important to understand therere a $30,000 eqUare_foet requirement3 it?s a feet requirement based on this, thie, and thie? And if part at the ?this? changee mm MATKOVSKY: Correcte SECRETARY SHINSEKI: m" right, inpatient; then-ether thinge and the ether change. MS. ROPE: Adjust? And it?s mm to be honest with_youg frem leaking at it, it?s net juet Specialty care. I mean, they get dawn to the.eneeuntere that you may have for eudielegy, the eneoentere yeu.m??' haVe is: every one of the Specialties because depending on what that Specialty is, that Speeielty drivee'the space requirement. You knewr you might have-a_lerger Space requirement 'er Selected aetivitiee that heve procedural, you knew} things vereue-just a plain Vieit, you knew] -SQ it.gete.very S?e?ifi?u SECRETARY SHINSEKI: I thihk What I?d.aek VHA te do is take the model out and use these tee ease ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0043 AF2272.0043 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353968 USVAeESlzf??fl? 44 Studies and let?e go validate it and decide Whether at net it?e'geed eheugh fer us to continue to and. then, you know, it?ll have a tale; If it len?t, then what next? But we need a tool here, MR4 And we're leekihg-et.thet. I do want'te let yea knew this ie-LQu-DeNine and I am representing OPP teday; MATKOVSKY: Thank yen, LOU, 36f yeah, we?ve loeked at a couple of thingsa And Lem, you khow, I think one of the an you khew, the-challenge eree.ie where there?s hethihg or Significant change ih footprint and makihg sure that it edjuete apprepriately. But fer the meet part, I thihkLWe?ve famed-"m we were looking at Some ef Our health care center prej ctiehs, some ef our EEOC projectiehe. Thie is whet we thought the werkleed weuld be. Thie is what metre Seeing as Geneietent. A little bit ever, little bit under here and there, but, he the whale, nothing tee dramatic in either directien. The biggeet Challenge, theugh, is in the. very big disruptions te the delivery system in that ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272-0044 AF2272.0044 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353969 usual-42e-12j05x16 45 market! Bees it Change behavior? he you get a built it and they will come Scenario that exceeds eur it? But we?ll leek at it and We?ll take the M84 ROFF: Yeah, I?d just say that we anticipate we will have a building and they will come impact? SECRETARY SHINSEKI: And'theh itFll he that faster {inaudible}. MR. Yes, I thihk_thet'tUths out to be true mainly when yeu?re intredueihg a let hf brand new Satvices to an area where they haven?t had Services. And so when you have reliahce built ihte the model besed upon what we had in place at the time, new you?re ihttoducing something new ahd that?S likely te affect reliance in the future, And I think-we are leokihg, in the VHA at leaet, to try and predict that; SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Yeah. I think.whehever wefve had these discussiens, let?e build it and they will came 18 Sort at an undercurteht in the dishhseieh ahdi you knew, I think that?s fair. We ought t0 then ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272-0045 AF2272.0045 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353?l70 USVAeE?lzf??fl? 46 try to ealeulate historically what that nee meant and create-a teeter and include that in cur planning; MS. RUFF: Yeah, it?s impertant. SCHOENHARD: Especially'given-the lar_e tertiary referral geography that you mm SPEAKER: Exactly? SCHOENHARD: There?s 5e many Sub markete that would have t0 go into that analyeie, the {inaudible}, SPEAKER: Good peint. MS, RGFF: I think we can test ferwerd into 2004 new. I?m juet being In 2004, we began leoking'fer aw architect engineering firm and the precess teak a while; Actually we brought what we call the jeint.venture team-en, which ie a combination of feur feeilitiee-Qr feur erganizatiene, and they came in with_a letter eentreet.in 2005? So we were beginning mm we were able te etert using them while we eentinued to negotiate the contract with them. And at that time, the University et'?elerade ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0046 AF2272.0046 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353?l7?1 47 president, after Our urging, geVe he CAD diagrame'for drawings ef the land that the University of CQthado was going to make available to us hext to them for the federal tewer, and it wee-2.46 agree of lendw And everyone wee aheolutely aghaet. SPEAKER: 12.6 ROFF: Pardon me? SECRETARY SHINSEKI: TweLve. MS. ROPE: Twelve, excuse-med -They were absolutely aghast because we had had a con?reeter come in and said the minimum we needed wee between 20 and And so, again, the VA felt-e little bit seagpee in the face by that gehexeus'effer. I knew yeu were there, Ralph, and it did no: g0 very well. MR4 GIGLIOTTE: Exactly right} MS. RUFF: And then finally we-did get the joint venture team on and the centraet_was in pleeae Se that-was happened in 2094. MR. GOULD: And the acres was a tranefer priee-er-juet donated? MS. RUFF: Oh, there was ne-dehatieh'hereh ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0047 AF2272.0047 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353?l72 usvaeaalzja?fle 43 MR. GIGLIQTTIZ Net at all, tra?SfET pricet GGULD: What wae the pricing viewawvie market? ROFF: I don?t think they ever get to that, t0 be heheet. GOULD: I See? ROFF: It was likeK ehr my god, yea khawt MR. GIGLIOTTI: T00 small, yeaht M34 RQFF: It was too Small; MR, GIGLIOTTI: Well; we?ll get t0 that with the actual purehaee ef the land. MS. RUFF: Then in 200%, the seetetary'froa W. letter t0 the delegation explaining the 11 need for a VA Standalone hospital, and he Said that We needed t0 maintain our integrity, All the-buildihge had to be contiguous. There would be he leasee and HQ encumbered land. 80 at that point,_he kind.of'threw dawn the-gauntlet and said thank you? but no thank yen te the University at Celerado and infermed.the Colorado delegation about that. ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0048 AF2272.0048 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353?l73 USVAeE?lzf??fl? 49 MR. GOULD: Ne mention of the amOUHt ef land, just MS. RUFF: I think in the letter_it said that it was teo email, but I can?t remember epeeifically. GOULD: Okay. ROFF: But I did reed.it-and-it was-a gead letterm SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Can retrieve.that letter? MS, RGFF: Oh, yeah. I?ve got.it.et the n" in.~m SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Becauee Kid like t? reed it-beceuse there?ll be centinuing relatiens with University Of Ceiorado. I met nee& to knew where the pinch points occurred. MSG ROFF: Actually there were twe letters: e?e that.eaid we can?t make your timeline in-a year to let yeu know for your master planning precees ew MR. GIGLIOTTI: At the very begi?ning; MS. RUFF: mm at the very beginning; and the ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0049 AF2272.0049 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353?l74 usvheg?lzj??fl? 50 ehe was we?re hat geihg to ge with the federaL tewer we'I mean, we?re not geihg to g0 eh year property; Thank you, we want to'COhtihue to maintaih excellent relatiehehipe. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Yen d0 knew there have been dentihuihg approaches, right? GIGLIOTTI: Abeelutely; SECRETARY SHINSEKI: I didnrt have thie pegged Out? MR. GOULD: Yeah, thie weuld he use?ul. MS, ROFF: Then in 2935, the Secretary Of defense motified the VA that they'were pullihg Cut 0f the federaL towerr And they haid that they were gOihg to have a leaee with the ?niversity of Celerade.Hospitai and they weuld he Longer be.jeihing the'VLJ That?e probably within the first month that I arrived at Denver when we received this letter, It wee like we didn?t really underetand why, but I think that they theught maybe cur wee tee 816W, they emuld.get a better deal with the university. The univerei?y handles TriWeet. That is their'previder, ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272-0050 AF2272.0050 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353?l75 0'figure that that wee prehahly their ratiehale, SG-they pulled out; GIGLIGTTI: Yeah, that was the twe things he Said. ROFF: Then the HAG pulled out, tee, during that period of time, so the VA mu HAG pulled out, DOD pulled out; and then we Started leekihg for phtehtial sites te build the facility. And we had a Site-in Stapleten, which need to be tie grenade for the eld-eirport. We leaked at land, it wee a-trailer park the street from the university preperty er Fitteimmene that was on Colfax. And if yeu?d been theta it?s a really reugh neighborheed that they??e Starting te kind Of gentrify, but it-was met one yeu?d want to walk out on at night. And then we looked at different-property Oh the campus. And the campus, the preperty, most_ef the -preperty was owned either by the Uhiversity of Belgrade or the Fitzsimm0hs Redevelepmeht autherity that really took Charge hf meet 6f the land.e?t?theret And SQ we leoked at different parcels in many,:many ANDE R3031 COURT RAE: FOR-T 706 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone {703} 519w7180 Fax 519m?190 AF2272.0051 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353?l76 USVAeElef??fl? 52 different areas. And :t the Same time, the AES started DJ looking-at a conceptual design. And We locked at three models. We looked at what we call the pancake er the.tewer model; we leaked at cempue.medel with many separate buildings; and we locked at the linear, which eventually we adeptedl And they elee take ler at that time the alignment at the departments within the buildings and then the.big block of where everything should go. Se we didn?t have a property yet, but we were-leeklng at where we could me how We Ceuld pete?tially develop a model of care. MR, GOULD: Can I juet "m Sifg were yen geinq m" SECRETARY SHENSEKI: NO, g?.ahead. MR, GOULD: A quick questlen en this eenetent.tele of ambiguity, eoet, and preparetien.fer being-able te ultimately send a peekage up-te the Eaeed on your experience here, is the idea of doing Ae? work prior te selecting Site a geed Que? ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519mll80 Fax Elge?lg? AF2272-0052 AF2272.0052 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353?l77 USVAeE?lzf??fl? 53 IS it better to Select the Site, have the land? .Beb; you?ve eemmented many times the individual parcel has a tremendeus effect en, you knowr What yen think.yeu can de; And 80 mm MR4 NEARY: I think let ef whet happens very eeriy with an architectural firm is engagement with the individual user groups within.e Center 30 eVerybedy has an underetending of what ere-the requirementsd MR. GOULD: Right. MR, NEARY: What elements of yeur "m the WQrk-that you do is important to you? But you een?t- GOULD: Regardless ef where you?re geing te site it. MR. NEARY: Regardless of where yee?re-geing te.eite it, but you can?t carry the: effer. Yen knew, you need a site 30 yeu can begin te.?e the reel heavy lifting of lewing dawn the building? MS. ROFF: If could elee make a eemmentj you knew, we had lote of recognition ef'what ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0053 AF2272.0053 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353?l78 USUAeg?izj??fl? 54 was geihg t3 happen and a lot of changihg'back and forth between the V363 and the congreesienal delegation, I think it was probablngood at that time that we can say, hey, we brought an AE-on, we?re atarting-to do something. GOULD: I See? ROFF: SO u" GQULD: It gives a geese Qf mementumi MS. ROPE: It was kind of a Sense that, hey, yau?re finally going forward and yeu?te doihg Semething. So I think that was helpful. MR. GGULD: Got it. Get it; That?e goodt SECRETARY SHINSEKE: Has 30D femaiHEd with University of Celerado on their egreemeht? M34 RUFF: No, they?re back with us new. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: i just wanted to.add that fer the record. MS. ROFF: Yeah. SHINSEKI: At'sone.peiht here I?m gcing to aek you t9 leek back. Ralph, With yeur history-and, Lynette, with yours, leek back at what ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0054 AF2272.0054 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353?l79 55 has transpired Since 2000. Where were the apportunities and what did it cast us net to have been de?igive and move ferward with what.1?m ESSuming tbday iS'a-Solutian yam all beli?ve beat'serve veterans? M84 ROFF: And Que thing I?d Say, you knew, just Off'the top of my head, it prebably=cest us about?'oh, four years in terms 0f "w SECRETARY SHINSEKI: FQUI years Df dead time- M34 ROFF: I would say that, yam knaw, if we didn?t have all the backmandmforth that.we?ve had; We?d probably be activating a hospital in or MR, GIGLIQTTI: We leek ?t th?t as a direct cast.and.indirect cost during that timel SECRETARY SHENSEKI: Can you put dollar figure.t0 that time? MR. GIGLIOTTI: Yeah. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: I mean, yam weren?t neae?sarily spending it for thingg, but'there is a goa?; You know, time um there?s-a time value far mm ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS Duke Streat, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phona ?703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0055 AF2272.0055 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353980 usveegelzje?fle 56 to;market. MR. GIGLIOTTI: Oh, yeah, Yeah, on many frentey-abselutely. GOULD: I5 there an indireet'ceet'yeu eould capture on purchased care in the-community by not having the new enlarged facility in that Eastern Colorado area? If so, it might afford yen a Chence t0 quantify some of that direct and.indireeti?eet MR. GIGLIOTTI: Right, right; MR4 GOULD: ?u of the delay my MR, GIGLIOTTI: And we eeuld leek.at Medicare-rates and kind of go from'there ee MS. RQFF: Petential. MR, GIGLIQTTI: mu and-we?ll negotiate it, Eight. MS. RUFF: Just to comment, I think.aleo ie that a lot of the care that we provide in the eommuaiey is care that we?re going to have te provide in the Community because 0f veterenS'that get siek_in Puebla MR. GOULD: I see. ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0056 AF2272.0056 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m035398?1 57 MS. ROFF: "m and Alammsa and La Junta. They?IE-geing to g0 to the nearest emergency roam and go lb and be admittad. And becauge Of mur geagraphy'?? SPEAKER: Yeah, tea Earl "u it?a tee-far. Yen knongjugt a comment; GIGLIQTTI: The re??vatio?s, and ?inaudible) for that. MS. RQFF: Yeah. Now we?re intm 2000 SECRETARY SHINSEKI: But-that?s okayr I mean, that?s the flexibility in thE-VA'SyStem. MR. GIGLIOTTI: Right. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: And then? yeu knewi if yen provide better care in a new'Denver hcspital, then you will, you know, you?ll get them-there. GIGLIOTTI: Right. That?s right, MS. ROFF: All right, we?re moving en te- ?nd we actually started daing w? SECRETARY N?thi?g happened im. 2305} huh? ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Streat, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phona ?703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0057 AF2272.0057 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353982 53 MS. ROFF: NO, I think I did m" yeah. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: we leap ferward t0 ?t MS. RUFF: We leap forward toyzeaah SPERKER: I left. M84 ROFF: Yeah. (Laughter) Very traumatic. And then that was the em 2005 was the year the DOD pulled out and wee the year that the HAG pulled.0ut, and then we just started but work, Se-at that point in time, it was totalty an Eastern Celeradef?enver facility. Se in 2336, we started.deeign.werk and we did Some-Site surveys. We evaluated a property fer entire?mehtel teeters. We had hat pureheSed'the preperty yet, but we pretty much knew where we were going t0 be Oh the campus. And we leaked at the thihge such as noise, endangered Species, and impact oh the 30mmuhity. At that time, there Were he histerie.eohcerhe. That later beeame ah issue that we we had a hunch at mid JAG buildihge that were past their prime, but we Were able te were threugh them. And we got the preplahning'werk ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0058 AF2272.0058 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353983 usvnegelzj??fl? 59 in 2686. All right, 2006 enters_one 0f the VA planning'modeie that we used for the site. at that time, we had an OMB that went in, 0MB 380 in FY 28GB, and it identified the need fer 1,461.millien square feeti Thie included 945,090 Square feet that was actually weli, that?s later en, excuse me; I get ahead at myeeif. We used the planning modeit This ie-juet a snapshot of it ?eiow. And what it is far 209?, the baseline work, and that shows eneountere fer primary care, specialty care, ancillary.and diagneetie services: what was prejected for 2022p! thie Nae in 2006, and the gapi ?nd it wee the gap that wee used to calculate in the health care planning medei the square.footage that was required, Se this is not square.?00tage; it?s encounters. and then thoee eneeuntere then equate to ?m are fed into-the Spec? eriteria and the figure that came up that we needed wee 1.461 millien Square feet. SLCRETARY SHINSEKI: Even theugh DQD and HAG ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0059 AF2272.0059 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353984 50 had withdrawn? ROFF: mehmm. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: am really your space requirements through the rerun Qf'the'medel went up you?re.eeyihg? SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Certainly.signifieamtj ROFF: Right. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: I mean1r 912 to 1.4. NS. ROFF: Right. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: How do you validate: that-model? I mean, wheh'did you run it laat that you get the 1.4 with DOD and HAG in it? And then yeu rerun the model in a matter Of a sample yeare later and it?s "w you knew? it?s not email Change, it?s a fairly significant inereaee. MS. ROFF: Well, I waen?t here when we did the initial model, but there are twe thinge that I'ha? jmehtianed before: one is that prebahly Some Of GUI had inereaee in terms Of the-ptejeetiOhs ahdi two, I believe that Some of the space criteria ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0060 AF2272.0060 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353985 and'planhing models changed as well, 61 thaw, by the time we?re finished with this space pianning-eriteria, you knew; we went frem rooms for patients Where we had twe and three patients in a teem an? the criteria changed te having One Single patient in the teem, whieh adds tremendeus amount at additional space. I Can?t-te but I know has been a required.b different. Colorado during that same time, demenatratively bigger than between that eertaihly accounts fer part-3f whatever-tweaking at the model that too -. 14L you. I that with -30 fellewed hem the model Changed, the deiivery at health Cate there growing amount of space that?s been. ecause 0f the way we deliver health care 30, MR. SECRETARY MR4 Ph 0 GIGLIQTTI: GIGLIOTTI: Ha I mean, that?e my anewer; but an Yeah, {inaudibleiipeint was Yell m" The grewth.in Seutnetn and Celerade Springs the outpatient growth was these twe runs; e0 it: Rad.then that, ANDERSQN COURT REPQRTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 (703; 519-4180 Fax AF2272.0061 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353986 usvgeg?lzj??fl? 52 SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Fair enQUghj I mean, you knew; the medel is intact and-you inereaee the i?putsf yeu?re going te get a chamge in the antceme, SO'that?s met an iesue, MR4 GIGLIQTTI: Yeah. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: But my sense here is there ie a Change to the medel. It?s huge. It?s net MR. GIGLIOTTI: Yeah, partie?larly that (inaudible); SECRETARY SHINSEKI: we (inaudible) that muchr 'Stetietieelly it?e a major ceange; MR. GIGLIOTTI: Right. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Which to me is a policy I meae, it ought to be a Subject Of universal undetetanding, we are changing the model from.a;twem pereen teem to a onemperson reom because'that changes everything for every design thereafter. Red te d0 that, yen knew, requires all of us underetan?ing what the impaCt is going to be, what the impact is to IT, what'the'impaet to operating funde-are geimg ta be. ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0062 AF2272.0062 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353987 53 MATKOVSKY: We have.had a abeut actually managing the design as if the design iteelf was a peliey. So you have-a ?ealth Care delivery model which says one te a reamr ge tram merging heme te CLC, those all have equate feet requirements. You go from primary care model t0 a PAC -m?del? These all have an impact on eut Space; And I think-we?ll see that the PAC still had a further impact Coming down the read aftet this, right? SHINSEKI: Whe'ewne this Hadel? MR. MATKOVSKY: Well, there?s two I think that there are two models that we?te thinking aeeut. Que at them is market medel, which ie peliey and planning; and then there is the design.modelf whieh is jeint artifact between OCFM andIVHAa I:think that $11 jeint artifact needs mere governance maybe, Dennis; end-then, you knew, we?ve talked about thie; mere gavernanee and then a that we?re eemmiseioning to a vereimn of that design. MR. MERRY: We utilize a eystem'that-we COURT REPORTING- 706 Duke Street, Suite 10.0. Alexandria, VA 2231-4 Phone {703} 519w?180 Fax 519m?lg? AF2272-0063 AF2272.0063 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353988 64; a?epted frem the Defense Health Pregeam hailed Space and Equipment Planning System, which.takes the.euteute from the.firet model we were just talking abeut in terms-Of each of the functions in the hespital me what are the workloads, whet cuts are threughput-mm and translates that into a epaee requirement. And each 0f the mu-fer each of the funetichai eetivitiee in a mediCel Center we have we refer he it ae~a Shepherd We.haVe.a set of formulaer if you wili, and parameters that are.developed in eenjunctien with VHA, updated on a threehyeer cycle. And 30 as thinge change in the health Gare delivery model, thhee ehahgee are ineetpefated into the Space and Equipmen? Planning System end m? ee you an increase-in Space and define what the Changes arei .ECRETARY SHINSEKI: I think coming Out of thie we heed sleet, you knew, identificatien'who the 'medel.ownere are. I mean, when it?s Velemen I knew exaetly who; Yen knew, has evereight and wethhee it "very When it?e Vera khew-eXeetly how that weeks. Se here?e anether medei that?s driving ANDE COURT REPORT 706 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703} 519w7180 Fax 519w?190 AF2272-0064 AF2272.0064 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353989 ewe-Age: 65 en: requirement and ?our requiremente? is the eperative term here? I think we eught te have a Clear identification of whe ewes it, wheis allowed ta ehange it; how do you change it, and what?s the that when-these changes are being preposed.thet it?e universally undereteed and we?re geieg to adjust to accept the in demand and seat, SPEAKER: I censurd MR. MATKOVSKY: You knewl Jain and I and Brandi ?hreugh one of the NBC committeea, the Capital and.Legietiee Committee, have the need.te put together, you know, a Standing 50 there?s health care policy and, you knew, literally hew de we deliver patient care ie the policy that we?re putting inte.e deeign, It?s an intentional desigu? Not the same-discussion that we?ve had abeut Sort of the grey reem'or something like that and the: ?esign, but literally, you knew? version the CLC model. Thie ie what we appreve fer CLCS. It is-durable fer Xenumber ef?yeae3; And then we have a plaEned fee tha?'modela It?e durable, but it may require eeme ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272-0065 AF2272.0065 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353990 56 acceptance of you?re building ta the Curfeet_publiehed .medelf you?re designing the next versien model? I think you need a validation in yeur models. No matter haw goed they are? you knew, it?s helpful te-ge back and make sure your medele are, you doing the work that needs t0 be done because Once you plug it in, yeu live with the resulte? 80 net only de yeu need to have ownership, then you need a which-?here is.a _perieele review, challenge the medel, yea know, make it "n demonstrate that it's still validf edjuet it, and then there?e a with adjustment fer appfeval, but there needs to be ownerSEip Of the 'medel. Otherwiee, all 0f ue um I meen? here I am aekihg Lynette, 80 what did you d0? MATKOVSKY: Right. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: And she?s saying I didn?t do anythihgi I used the medel, right? So it?e the_persoh who ewne the medel is really the majer "player here? MR. MATKOVSKY: Cerreet. ANDERSON COURT 706 Duke Street, Suite 1-3-50. Alexandria, VA 22314 Phene {703) 519w?180 Fax AF2272-0066 AF2272.0066 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m035399?1 57 MR. GOULD: Okay. Lyn?ttE, GQuid.I-a3k one .mQrE'questiQn on the medal? MS. ROFF: YES. MR1 GOULD: That?a to drive us crazy, but $0.in no ODE ?w ROFF: 1 may not answer} MR1 GOULD: ?Aii right. Ycu can take-the Fifthi So in ?01, there?s a,baSEii?ei Five yEarS later,.basica11y you rework that and yQu.find that it??.692p??0??t off fer uniques in the same periedi 2022. And that weuld imply, sort of very raugh math, a rate of abaut 2w1f2 t0 3 percent'per year over that zaeyear period t0 achieve that yEtTybu St?rted-fo your brief with uS teday shaming between 6 and 8. 30 i3 m" ultimately, you?re-going tO-get.t? a deacription of why we?re 300,009 Square feet kind of short Of what we need. 15 that entire1y by the grawth ratea you?re Seeing now? Are you expecting ta bubb1e and then tip back down? at @323 mgdeling dQeS-Qur experience new in 2011 mm 7101 ?11, ahd ?12, indicate'that even thig eatimate has subgtantia11y.01f ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Streat, Suite 100 Aiexandria, VA 22314 Phona ?703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0067 AF2272.0067 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353992 usm-Am-m-msxm 68 in terme Of growth? GIGLIOTTI: Right. I think in terme QI-nm GOULD: De you understand-what I?m eeyihg? Yeah, why do we have the gap is~yeur question? GGULD: Well, there seeme t0 be Sueh_a variance between what you?re experiencing new and what was forecaet we weuld be experieheihg ?edey five er Six years age. Have we fully come to terme with the difference between ?m the madel.an??the werld We?re'experieneihg? GIGLIQTTI: Yeah, I geese twe answersl ?ne iS'at seme point, and we?ll get tO'it in the the budget came into-play "w MR, GOULD: Okay. MR. GIGLIGTTI: mm and Said here?e what we eah_build with that. MR. GOULD: Get it. MR. GIGLIGTTI: And SQ itfe kind-Qf'right- ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519mll80 Fax AF2272-0068 AF2272.0068 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353993 59 tOHl?ft'planning. MR. GOULD: Get it. MR. GIGLIOTTI: And them.that gapta b?e? identified and SO th? mm what Ms. Raff led Off with. the Lakewaod clinic. the growth at the Gelarada Springs Clinic and the Aurora clinic. than we still have:that "u a gap that?S the prcject We just we?t thr?ugh. That came to hel? id?htify SQME at that. But the initial part Of youx quegtion i5 the budget piele amd then the had tm'wccur b?cauae Of that. MS. ROFF: ?nd you?re gaing'te See, me haVE?ft getten t0 it yet, but thEre i3 a huga budget piece. We?re juSt about there. MR. GOULD: That?s the constraint. .And the laSt-quick queation, if yen did the-model run now what wguld it tell you those uniques ate-and wculd it identify yet anather gap? Are we in a tailm?hase game? MS. RGFF: First Of all. the madel run never does tall you uniquas, all right? ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Streat, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phona ?703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0069 AF2272.0069 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353994 70 MR. GOULD: I?m Betty. SAD fur. ROFF: You see a unique.up therel Th iS-a_Uquue "n GOULD: Worklead. M84 ROFF: Well, the unique that up there Of'the mm Oh, that?s primary care& Se'what are you aekihg? What did the u" GIGLIOTTI: Basically-if we ran it haw- what would it Show? MR. GOULD: Yeah, if yeu leak at thoee GeluMhe left to right, they?re roughly 650; the delta is 250 on the far Side or 60 percent. The questieh I?m asking.is if that was the ehehge-geihg from an ?01 model run ta an ?O?-model rum and how-we?re anether six yeare later? right, if we ran the model today would we See more grewth_like that?, implying that we had another gap that we had :9 deel_with? MR. I just want te Speak fer'the (ihaUdible) for a minute. 2391 was the fitet time the medel was ever tun te look at utilization pthjeqted ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272-0070 AF2272.0070 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353995 7} ?eet to market and fecilitiee. It was theibaeie.fer but it wee really the first time it was dene? Ahd I think between 2991 and probably the next five years, the wedel was continuously refined. I don?t think that 2006 or 2097 there hee been nearly ee-mueh (j 1 change as there Na in the early years when there was a let.ef refinement geing en the medel. The ether thing I went to peiet Gut becauee wee involved a little bit in this project a few years ago, and we were trying to make the projeet g0 'dewn te the $803 millieu cap. ?nd at the time, whet the VISN was doing at that time and.the feeility Wee leekihg fet ways t0 take werklead that had been projected to: it, looking at where that werklead was Geming from in tetme ef whet counties and what sectors, and seeing if there was ways in=whieh they Ceuld_pueh seme of that werklead Cut, 50 that all thei; -werkleed wouldn?t have to eeme tO-the medical center, Ahd_pett of it was to try and fit_into this ?ap at that time. And een?t knew; sihee I haVeh?t.heeh ihvelved the last few years in thie_preject, whether ANDERSON COURT REPORTING 706 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703} Sign-7180 Fax {303;} AF2272.0071 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353996 ?2 er ?Ot that?e still the ease or whether yeurre just "m they?re juet ueihg the full projectieh new planhihg'to move as much workload-out ef the facility ae they'were several years age. But part cf the baeia fer planning and for space several years age wae-that a certain pertieh 0f the werkload would meve out 0: the facility. MR. GOULD: (inaudible) ask_the questioh a different way. Thank you. That was very helpfull I understahd more about how the modells involved. If we rah the medel teday, what would it tell we eur workload will be in 2022? Has anywhe?dehe that? ROFF: We u" GOULD: It leeka like "u . FATE: We have. Phillip and I were analyzing varioue workloads. He?s trying to pull it up right now. GOULD: Okay, greatl RGFF: I aetually had it and ferget is .bring it} but the workload I Saw was increaaihg, ae-I Say, that tap increase ?m a decrease in vet pop; ANDE R3031 COURT RE FOR-T 706 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone {703} 519w7180 Fax 519m?190 AF2272-0072 AF2272.0072 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353997 Ugvneg?lzf??fln 73 denteasihg enrollees, but increasing anr'market share MR. GOULD: Okay. ROFF: mm which would indicate to me that-we wenld continue to gee grewth and it weuld not flatten-until about 2030? mai GIGLIOTTI: 30 We weuld take that-number- and then match it againet what the medel number we right. 'We can run it in the new modelf but we could see what those numbers say in comparative medel? {inaudible} as an input. MR. GOULD: And we coula'take a look'at that Cffline. I just the thing I?m trYing tn dc at same paint; we?ll have a final reckoning and the beautiful facility will be open and we knew we?ve get a deal with the-300,000 square feet too I?d rather knew new if we think that that number will grew analytically and it will help me plan and aleo help me develep nentingeneies, eel MR. BAKER: How d0 we indetpetate-u- a3 yen deal with the EVA tranafotmation; ene of the things ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0073 AF2272.0073 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353998 usvgegelzj??fle 74 we?re talking abeut are the unanWn MR. GOULD: Yeah. MR. BAKER: Ahd then geihg hack and.leokihg at; yes, but the trend indieatee that these things happen on a pretty regular baeie. GOULD: Yeei BAKER: Yeu knew, juet to make eerteirl that it gets asked at the table, hem de'we deal with the unknewn unknowns of, you khQW? vet pep-is based on were.to date, right? MS, ROFF: Oh what? MR. BAKER: en were to eate; We'eon?t foreeas: ferwerd of in the next 50 years What?s the prebebility that we?ll Eight another conflict? PETZEL: No, in fact, it?s quite the Opposite} We are forbidden to of another war. MR. BAKER: Okay, that?s the answer. PETZEL: The medel Seye there'will be_ne Imete*Ware. MR. So there?s a legal'prehibitien ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0074 AF2272.0074 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353999 75 en deinq that? PETZEL: Well, it'e em legal, I de??t khowg.but it is the way the model werke; BAKER: We?re building a S?eyear heepital here. You knewg a sane pereen_loeke beek.et the last 50 years and said can I project forward for the next 50 years or at least See Something abeut Whatre_going on in that? And I don?t EDIE-thee anybedy you knew, any more than.anybody.el3e in thie_roem want to forecast yet amether War and_yet, yeu know, if you lock at it, every, I den*t knew, What, lQ-yeere fight emether eenfliCt of some seelei What?s the impaEt "e if you juet did'MQnte Carla, if you juet did high sidew low side; you know, midpoint en thier what weuld it tell you? Even if we don?t formally incerporate-it.in Our plan?ing; If the anewer ie with thie we?re bumped up ageinet-whetever happens, and if we fight enether war wefve-g?t ta go build anether hospital, We ought te knew that. And I the other Side, ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone {703) Fax AF2272-0075 AF2272.0075 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m03531GO 76 UhkhOWhe i5 can we ptejeet ferwatd ta if we de fight another cehfliet, what are the Signature weuhde of that'COhfliet? Do we need to dh more thihge? Yen knew, today is there eemethihg we wish we knew about mental health and TBI 15 years age? Ie there anything we-eah-fereeaet forward retative te the facility that would tell us maybe yeu want t0 plan eert of thithjih? 13 it, you knew, mere.MBIe? IS it mete; yam knew; Smaller meeting rooms or whatever, I don?t know} I just an you?re doing a really'qeod oh the USA side of asking that question. to lGOw year etr'etures we?re talking about? SECRETARY SHINSEKE: Seme bf that way Of thinking on at DOD, the eperatiehal-Side of it; And that?s part at the reason why we need to be in bed with themr undetetahdihg what they are Seeing as the operatiehal requirements for them because they d0 that. I_meah, gull will tell yeu,_yeu deh?t always get it_right, but they de try to leak hut because they have-lehger horizons than we de. I mean, to pat a person-in a unit teday, they started plahhihg eh ANDERSCN COURT 706 Duke Street, Suite 1-3-50. Alexandria, VA 2231-4 Phene {703) 519w?180 Fax AF2272-0076 AF2272.0076 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m03531G1 USVAeE?lzf??fl? 77 rectuiting and scheol SeatS and atl-ef that three years befere, three to four years before thatr So someplace there is some of that geihg On. We ?eh?t ?e it here and I think it?e a good point, we Sheuld] MR4 Well, it ?w SECRETARY SHINSEKI: GO-ah?ad. It is true-that uu-my u?detstanding is that in the model the aseumptien based upon what the future discharges are geing to be tram the military are baeed on the Same data used by GBG and.JO, accepted by OMB, and date are baeed en data they?re Supplied by DOD. 39 em and that?g all.[ I think, at this point Jay has to ge am, What DQD really predicts in terms of its future diechetgeez And then I think there?s Same massaging that goes en over-at mm by the Congressional [sic] Office. MR. GOULD: Okay, you need ta identify yeurself when yeu?re Speaking? MR: I?m entry. This is LQU DeNinf I Speke a few timee before. I thought maybe you?d recognize my voice. ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0077 AF2272.0077 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m03531G2 7g SECRETARY SHINSEKI: okay; We?re going to get to eome point where we talk about the 350,000 Sq?are-foot shortfall. end it?s one thiog'to have it, it?s another thing to understand that you etarted a project and your opportunities to Shape the outoomee are far different now when budget ceiling is imposed and you?ve some ooet bee been put into the foundation; You can?t reoover that and SG-your decisione now to fit in under the.budget? you?re taking Stuff down that hurts it?e fuogible epeoe, It?e treatment space;r it?e eervioeeg it?e perkiog lots. you?re elree?y in the grommet roufve Spent um you know, you put in the foundatioo. Thet would have been a different kind of facility; I think that?s where you?re going to Come back to us? So if you?re not going to get to that, I?ll aek you to eddrees it now. If you are going to get to that.m~ MS. ROFF: We do have some reeolotionef SECRETARY SHIISEKI: Okay. Thee I?ll Wait to hear-because that?s mm there?s a.little bit of mm ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0078 AF2272.0078 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m03531()3 usveegelzje?fl? 79 you knew? this is a risk. We need to "m ROFF: It?s in there in thiege we?ve. dOne to date to previde, for instance! What We talke? abeut earlier, and we?ll get ta it: Lakeweed that we?ve expendee dramatically; Spriege that we?re doing dramatically? We?ve else e" and Ifll talk about theta Look at the Operatiens of the facility e3 it_etande that we?ve planned and leek t0 where we Cauld Combine spaces, not to hurt Clinical programs; but maybe eperatlenally within the eyeteme to decrease. And then we have the SEEP pregram that hee What We'would do to addrees through ery? SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Okay; ROFE: SQ it?S there; And I?m sorry for the background, but it?s here. SO in 2906; we finally-brought on a-project manager for the planning and the oversight Qf the eenetruetion project. And we else actually Started aequirinq the land that we needed, We.had dame the schematic design, SD l, and we wemt-up I think it was completed in November. And.at that ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?l80 Fax AF2272-0079 AF2272.0079 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m03531G4 89 point in time, and here, again? ie a little jump? it went frem l.46 million square feet needed to 1.58? This waS'mm occurred when we got out designers-and ear medieal planners in, and they ennferred with eelleeguee. They looked at other facilities that were being_planned, new facilities, and it was a Combinatien of then the VA Space criteria and What was being used. And I think it was the architeet fer deeign.of hospitalsl And so at that pain-t,T in. Navember, we were at l.58 million square-feet and it?e when the budget was $l,l billion. And meving forward, in EGOB eh ene I?m going" to let.h~ I?m going to Skip this Slide because Jim Sulliven is going t0 g0 threugn the whale anpropriatien and give more background on that. .But in 2908, we went up in December to VA OCFM, did the peer'review for the Schematic Design l. and at that time, the directer of OCFM actually took-me aeide and gaid this will not work; l.l billien is te0_high. MR. GOULD: And who ie it that takee yen. aeide (inaudible)? ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272-0080 AF2272.0080 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m03531()5 81 MS. ROFF: This was Mr. UrndOff at the time. MR. GOULD: Thankg, right. MS. RUFF: And said this is-mm MR. GOULD: 30 head of construction. MS. ROFF: Thia i3 too high. We?re Gut 0f sequence here. We need to g0 over to 2008. Far some reaSQn-it u? MR. GIGLIQTTI: Which sLide? MS. RUFF: The next one. MR. GIGLTOTTI: Uh, yeah. MS. RGFF: Yeah. it went out Qf order. MR. That MS. RQFF: Click the magi-one. See 2008? MR. GIGLIGTTI: Yeah, it?s on Slide 28. MS. ROFF: It went Out of.order, yeah. We had ?ur6hased the land "m I?HLgetting a littlg confuaed. We had purchased the land. It was 31 aeres. We had over 14 different parcals that had to be put_together. The cost waa $60.4 millien far the Iahd. The land included the parcels, included.the Uni?ed Physicians, Inc., building that was existing on ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Streat, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phona ?703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272.0081 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m03531()6 82 the'property. And so we were ablg tQ-get the land purchased? It was in 2908 that Gr?doff said this is way too expensive, thiS will net fly} You-need t0 come-up with anather plan. All right? when we started to take a lock at what.we could do then? SECRETARY SHINSEKI: What-drOVE'that? MS. RUFF: Pardon me? SECRETARY SHINSEKI: What dfave-that? MR, NEARY: I believe that-was a thought that~going over n" MS. ROPE: Who was it, Bab?' I'ddn?t remember; MR4 NEARY: Pardon me? 'I.d0n?t "m well, I think-there was a Sense that going ovar.a-billion dollars Was kind of a trigger that leadership wantad ta avaid; SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Sm'that'was a searetarlal impoged cap? MR. NEARY: I didn?t particip?te in'that, ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Streat, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phona ?703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0082 AF2272.0082 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m03531G7 83 but that was my impression from (inaudiblel,;yee. MR. And there-was Significant congreseional oppoeition to this project to Start withw god when they go through the appropriatione you?ll see how they {inaudible} us-with money and authorization with the fundamental opposition to this project from day one for whatever reasons geople did talk abOut? But it was me this was probably'the moot difficult project we ever had to get authorized and appropriate. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: SQ it-wae a COmgreseiomally imposed cap? SULLIVAN: There were the timel I don?t know the extent of them, MS. MOONEY: I think people were just Cautioue about putting forward something big when ?w in the-fact of eignifioant oppositiono MR: STLLIVAN: Right. ljmeao, we also-had a_ (ihaUdible) investigation, an inveStigatioo by the chairmao'of the House Appropriations Committee at the ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0083 AF2272.0083 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m03531()8 USvaag?lzf??fl? 84 time, Who was fundamentally convinced that this ptajact was politically motivated. So thate was just a Cohfluenca of factata. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Was it? MR4 NEARY: I think this all started; a5 you?ve seen here, as "u ROFF: We need it a3 far-a5 I?m caacarnad. MR. MERRY: As you?ve seen here, you.kn0w? thia?all_statted a long time befate.?rl NiCthSOh Game in .. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: What-I?m trying.ta get tG.h?t? is there is implied guidance beihg gi?eh here and people are, you knew, making daCiaiQns baaed an suggeatiOna that we?re crossing a line or attending something. You knew, I?m just leaking for clarity here; And it?s either yea or no, d9 it at don?t d9 it, yau know. I mean, that?s what higher headquartera are abQut, so that there?s Clarity in the ptajact aa we.ga farward, mat innuemdm, not h?ahdea, net um you know? coma on? That?s why all at us are sitting in ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Streat, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phona ?703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0084 AF2272.0084 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m03531()9 85 the team here because it takee alt at us to figure out haw we.qet to where we are? We had this huge project, it*h beeh designed} we?ve been working on it far 12 yeata, and you?re 3?0,000 Square feet,ah0tt* What? MR4 SULLIVAN: I think;t air, it was the Colleetive judgment of the leadehship at the time that they were not going t0 get a larger-praject autharized and appropriated in Cehgtess. And if they could get one at $800 million with an authorization.for that suheequent amount, VA should take the mhhey and Enhg That waa a judgmeht that was reached at the time by the folks that were here. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: By the secretary h? SULLIVAN: Yeah. SECRETARY SHENSEKI: m" Or'by a collective group? MRQ SULLIVAN: It was by the Secretary* The Secretary?s persehal aasistaht, who Shepherded much of this through, was deeply involve?_in theae negotiatieha on the Hill. SLCRETARY SHINSEKI: Gkay, fair emeugh; I ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0085 AF2272.0085 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m03531 10 usveegelzj??fle 86 mean, if it get to that level of then that?s faita MR. SUtLtveh: Yeah, it was out of the Secretary?s office at the time. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Thet?e whet I?m.tryihg te-get to, to see whether there wee clear guidance. Wee it issued as guidance? SULLIVAN: In writing, he. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Okayt MR4 SULLIVAN: Net that Ifm aware of; MS, ROFF: remember Orhdeff saying this will not fly with the secretary; And at that paint in time, we "u the hetwerk'direetet that was Mti Grippen at the time and {inaudible} at the winter epette clinic, ahd we met with the Secretary and.with Dr. Cueemen and spent the majority-9f the-winter shorts elihie trying to figure out hew We were geihg te reduce the scope and the cost so that it would go ferwetd? Se that was how we plahhe?_it, SECRETARY SHINFEKI: SO it-Wee the GutCOme ef-that meeting we?re not geihg te build a standalehe ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0086 AF2272.0086 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m03531 1?1 87 heapital. We?re geing te build semethieg called an ECG, MS. ROFF: The Outcome-Of it'wae that we were going to have a hospital within a beepital at the Univereity at Colorado that was geing t0 build a bei tewet where we weuld have VA fleete that would'heve me patients that would be treated by VA Stef?. we would share same of the enciliety ee nutritie? and food service, maybe lab. We.weuld buiid OD the ptopetty'that we had just bought; or Whatever we called it at that period of time, that HCC we would have-epihel cord injury, we would have a epinel card injury inpatient unit, we weuld have a We matte heve a diagnostic and treatment pregram for eutpetient, we would have outpatient ambulatery surgery and outpatient areest SECRETARY SHINSEKI: decision. MS. ROFF: Yee. And that-is where we'eeme up with'we needed then 88?,000 square feet for this% IBHbed SCI, lZHbed transitienal And we then ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272-0087 AF2272.0087 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m03531 12 83 began the process at designing the pertiene ef'theVCLC in not the CLC, portions of the ambulatery care center that'WOuid fit either in the hospital model at weuid be in the ECG model? We knew we were in treneitien~between-the seeretarieei We proceeded with at least a building and designing what we knew would be lasting. And in the interim we had huge dieeuseieneJr shall we eeyf-aed veice frem the veterans service organizations ae well ae-the delegation SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Whieh was? MS. ROPE: Wee to have the heapitel within a heepital; We met with the Univereity ef Selerade preeideetr We met with the University of Coiorede heepitel preeident. They Said, yeu threugh this before, Are you Sure yen want te do this? Of ceuree we?ll work with you and de whatever we eeng_but are you sure? And we said, gee, we?re Sure} and we eterted off on that read. Ie feet, they even'etarted designing the tower that-they weuld ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272-0088 AF2272.0088 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m03531 13 89 buiidi and that tower is now under Congtruotioh and hag-been under Con?truotion for about six months, but that tower is juot now for the UniVQKSity of Galorado hospital. So it?s an addition to the So that-was from 2098 until you were.o-nfirmod SECRETARY SEINSEKI: And-then we Changed our minds again. ROFF: I'm happy'you Ghanged your mind or our mind and so are the Colorado deiogation.and. (inaudible) and m" SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Sure as hell I wigh I had this-boo (inaudible) I wouldn?t have boon 5o bOid; {Laughter} SPEAKER: Oh, yeah. PETZEL: If that?s the case, it?S a good thing-you didn?t. You absolutely-made-the-right decision; MS. ROFF: kind of-iike a living Soap: opera[ to be honeot with you. MR. GOULD: Oh, my god. 'Couid I juat.get youi us? for purposes of following the Story Em ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Streat, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phono ?703) Fax AF2272-0089 AF2272.0089 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m03531 14 awe-4m: 90 MS. ROFF: Yea. GOULD: This term ef ours, ?heapitai Within-a hospital," very briefly put that.ie certainly a statement about governance, right? .But what is it at.the.mext layer down? Ia it a, yea know,-a eentraetual relatienship? Is it the equivalent at leasing Space and you provide all of the equipment and the Staffing and the patients? What it mean? MS. RUFF: We were just Starting ta work that.outr MR, GOULD: Gkay. MS. ROFF: We would have to lease the That would be one thing. GOULD: Yes. M34 ROFF: We weuld have t0 develop eentraets fer the that we weuld be purchasing, MR. GOULD: Yea. MS. ROFF: There was a let of eeneern abeut empleyees that weuld be working Sideu?yweidem Say in the 6R8 you have a VA nuree and a Univereity ef ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272-0090 AF2272.0090 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m03531 15 usva-A'Ee-l 2f05f16 Celetade nurse, ODE that was represented by the another one that was het unionizedr We were just starting'to talk abeut all of the-things that wa_wou1d have to work threugh in Order te make this a viable relationship, se te speak. GOULD: And these challenges were averted-with the decision in (inaudibleii RGFF: These Challenges were_avertedl MR. GOULD: Got itl M34 ROFF: It was very difficult-for empleyees to ceneeptualize and a let of angst about that, There was concern abeut a number ef'peeple lesi?g.their jobs because patentiallyr yes knew, the University of Celerede weuld take-ever} such as the housekeeping services. We were trying t0 fig?re Out who would do the biomedical repaits? What equipmeet would be VA, what equipment weuld be joint? Se we die get te very initial stages, but it never went beyond that; MR . 'IThank 32011 i SLCRETARY SHINSEKI: Se the big tower that?s ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272.0091 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m03531 16 usm-Am: 92 going up at the Univereity of Celerade-Medieal seheol ie.purpesed? They have the capability t0 make use of it-or mm RUFF: Pardon me? The tower? MR4 GIGLIQTTI: The new.ene. ROFF: Oh, yeah. The?Univereity of Geloredo hospital is growing by leape and beunds. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Cf MS. ROFF: 0h, no. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: m?'we'made a premise, they built semething and new they?re MR. GIGLIQTTI: We didn?t: plain that, :15. MS, ROPE: Ne. They started planning it, we pulled out and it was no big deal because their growth hes been huge. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: 13 there en aptien te buy Space there if we needed it? MR: GOULD: That?e a great-question. MS. ROFF: The Space that we-need um MR. GIGLIGTTI: In the tewer, yen mean? ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0092 AF2272.0092 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m03531 17 usage-931:2 3051? 16 93? SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Yeah, I doh?t knew what?e in the tower, but; I mean, we?re talking Shortfall Oh the (inaudible) and I?m just tryihg'th understand what the optiehe are. M84 ROFF: Rightl The prejeete? ehertfall that we have in space is for diagheetle and treatment, eQ-mere-thah likely that may be a little bit difficult because'yeu?te talking label Mayhe'yeu eeuld use the CT, you know, the MRE, these kinds of thingst SMCRETARY SHINSEKT: UplO?d-?OmE-Of the thihge yen have in your feetpriht ever there and keep in year foetpriht. MS. ROPE: That?s the petehtial. The ether Shettfall that we have is in mental health space-and} me, they don?t have any mental health Space? In fact, the'UhlverSity of Colorado shut down all 0f the mehtal health beds, period, because they juet don?t make.any 'mohey on them. And that is pretty much the fer jmahy-Qf the medical centere in the Denver area. "Yen knew; insurance pay for mental health care, ah theK dehlt end a lot of time on it. I ANDERSCN COURT REPORTING 706 Duke Street, Suite Alexandria, Phene {703) 519w?180 Fax 519e?lg? AF2272-0093 AF2272.0093 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m03531 18 Hem-4m: 94 MR. GOULD: Where de the peevidere_go fer that? We?re in a race to hire a lot at mental health Speeialists new. Were thoee decigicns m?de Are they Still available in that market? M84 ROFF: It?s very difficult for-us to hire mental health previdere and we have another Challenge: that is that a peer peteem hays a let mere for their mental health providers than we do, SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Fer new; FETZEL: The,ermy is ear-woret campetit>r er meet difficult eempetiter. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Fer HOW. DR. PETZEL: But the mehtal health previdere, what they do is they go private pay and they do Outpatient They deh?t get paid anything-for inpatient care anywey, or very-littlea The medication ie m" MR. GOULD: 30, the eerv'ee is available, but 93 an outpatient haeis? DR. PETZEL: Yeah. MR. GOULD: Someone else is previding it? ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0094 AF2272.0094 DerivermPhese2mGroup2m03531 19 g5 DR. PETZEL: It?s the inpatient beds that they den?t have. You know, when you talk to people in any-of these communities, they will tell you that they?re grateful when they?ve got a VA patient because they knew that they?re going to get this broad.range of services "u MR. GOULB: Yeah. DR. PETZEL: mm that they-cannot 'Et in the community. SELRETARY SHINSEKI: Louisville. DR. PETZEL: Except whet? SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Louisville. DR. PETZEL: Even in Okey. MS. RGFF: All right. I think we?re back to Slide 26, if you?ll help me. Okay. Se ie.Jeeuery, the jeint venture team started the sehemetio deeign en whet.we call the reduced scope the EEC. In March, Secretary Shinseki mede'the for a fuilueervioe medical Started doing some what we call reverse engineering ANDERSON COURT REPORTING 706 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA Phone (703} 519w7180 Fax (?0f AF2272-0095 AF2272.0095 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353120 usvle-A'Ee-lz-msxm 96 ahd'plehhihg so that we would need at the 800 millieh cap, and it turned to be l.069 millieh gross square feet; Stay, we?ll ge an to background. Just a eommeht, this wee part of the pleh and it had to de with eommUhicatiOh. And through'thiE'whole proaese there has been active communicatien with the Colerado delegation, the United Veterans of Celeraeo ?ommittee.f veteran Service officers, the campue etakeheldete,.and the local planning authority. Peeple do know what?s geihg on and I weuld tell you that although there hee beeh lots at ehehgee over the years} the veteran eemmuhity and the Colorado delegation efe_juet se thehhful thet we have a new VA replacement facility that.ie about to bet would also say that the 300,900 that we talk_eheut that neede to be resolved is certainly not anything that is on their minds at thie point in timel They are.vety happy with what they?re getting? They know-abeut some Of our expansion plane-in LakeWOod and in Colorado Springs? They are invelved when we have ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0096 AF2272.0096 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m035312?1 97 commenity reseutce and referral Center seeming and a DOM . .We have very goed relatienShipe and our_plae is to keep it that way. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: They?re active-end it?e geed they are euppertive. It?s been geed to watch that? They?re prebably online as well. GIGLIOTTI: Probably. I?d like tQ pubLiely give Lynette credit for thatf toe, on the Cemmunicatione because it wee very Clear when I came ie-two months ago and started groups they had been kept informed the entire time. And Cece-the was ultimately made to go fermerd, they weren?t as ecstatic! bet they knew the precees the whale time. SO, really-geed SECRETARY SHINSEKI: I'eeho that,'Relph. I meenj'thet?e good. MS. ROFF: We?ve got meetings every menth for them to see the hole in the ground; If it?s a little.deeper or a little wider, it?s the meet glorieue thing they?ve ever (?aughter) ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0097 AF2272.0097 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353122 98 SECRETARY SHINSEKI: That?S whate yQu.had thE-briefing for met MR. GOULD: Yeah, I know. I knew. That?s great. SECRETARY SHINSEKT: Sitting ever the hole? leaking at the hole, and there ate these spidetg as a guy drives by and dumps a load at dirt, PETZEL: Just I wouLd make the Gamment that mw echo what Ralph said about on.that. But really, ?ll four of these projects, theta baa Hat been a big issut with the Service organizatimn relationahip. That hag been manage?, thinkg'very WelL'a?d is a high point, if there is any, With all GE these_pr?jects in that the local man?gement h?S really kept.them3elves involved with the service organizationg. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: okayg MS. ROFF: It can?t be.any other-way; It really ca??t. DR. INETZELA .Right: "u MS. RUFF: This jugt Vg_in ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS T06 Duke Streat, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phona ?703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0098 AF2272.0098 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353123 {ism-Age: 29-95116 99 relationship en the campus. We are-eh the far eastern Side; Our immediate neighbors to the meet are the Childreh?a Hospital. They are alaeihhildihg ah addition onto their hoepital? And to the far inme'e't3,f whieh is about sevehmeighthe of a mile away, ia the University of Colorado Hoepital, the researc?i buildinge, the medical eehoel, and, of Ceuree, Building 500 stands in the middle-as the admihietrative building, the fameus building. Oh the far east you?ll See there will be a major ramp that goes off and through the middle of the VA property that we'have'werked ateuhd So that We can beat utilize the property; .Ahd Sometime in the not too distant future we will have light rail that will g0 up the eaetern bouhdary of our property, which will be great because they anticipate that therefs going to be about 4UTQQG.eare.goihg-into and out=of this property by the time-it?e all built '?pt It?ll be huge. MR. GOULD: Will there he a light rail Stop at the-campus? ANDERSCN COURT 706 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, Phone {703) Fax Ely-319$ AF2272-0099 AF2272.0099 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353124 $00 MS. ROFF: There will be a light rail Stop 81056 to Colfax, so veterans and staff, when it ,1 finally gets built, will be able to'walk a?d haV? acceas'to our mm SECRETARY SETNSEKI: Where?g Gmlfax? GTGLIOTTI: Colfax iS'the street my ROFF: Colfax is the scuthi Right there on.the sauthd MR. GIGLIOTTI: mm between the USE and the SECRETARY SHINSEKT: That intaraeetion dawn there; MR. GIGLIOTTI: Yeah. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Qkay, great. MR4 GOULD: And you did me?tien pa?king. MS. RUFF: Oh, gag, We feund iota Qf parking, but we?ll get to that. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: All right: We?ll go up fram'1here; MS: RUFF: All right, the next i3 jugt am aECEitactural renditien of the property. And later an I?ll go ANDERSQN CQURT REPURTENS T06 Duke Streat, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phona ?703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272.0100 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353125 13} thraugh aLl the buildings. We have 182 bedS; 31 acres} and 2,250 parking Spaces. 'T0.give you a lit?le perspeCtive on parking, we have about 903 spaces t?tal in'Denver right now. PETZEL: Juat for orientatienf we?re leaking at this frem the Seutheast? MS. ROFF: You?re lacking at ?u DR. PETZEL: And Colfax'is that street an the left? MS. RUFF: Yes. MR. GIGLIOTTI: Yes, MS. ROFF: End Fitzsimmong Parkway FF-exau?e' me, I apelogize ?w is going up the eaSt Side? And. then you?ll 366 to the left, 0: t9 the west? Childre??s Hospital 0: the Childre??s.?mspital p&rking lots. And they have built.another parking garage already. They were Short day ane that they 'moved.in and we gave them, no Charge; as a neighborly act? 400 spots an QUE property un?il they build a_parki?g garage, and now we?ve aSked tham far parking Spats and they said they?ll be happy in giva them to ANDERSON COURT 706 Duke Street, Suite 100. Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone {703} 519w?180 Fax 519m?ig? AF2272.0101 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353126 182 uE'tOt'?B? a manth? (Laughtet) 36 We?re negotiating that a little bit, MR. MILSTEN: You might actuaily have mm. MS. RGFF: Pardon me? MILSTEN: Yea d0 of the lagt twe slides underheath the placemat ?v SHINSEKI: Yeah, great; MR. MILSTEN: "m that a little 'better detail on. MS. RUFF: Oh, I?m sarry; SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Very mica. MR. GOULD: And just, Lynette, that?a a let Of ccnfidence 0n th? parking, but the ansWer left jESt; enough-roemt I know it?S mere than Wh?t yen currently had, but.i3 it enough fer the Size of facility? ?nd number of patienta in'beds here? RQFF: be showing yam in a minute -the parking Survey we did. If you lack at the parking survey, we?re at the low en? of meeting the EQquirementS. MR. GQULD: Right. RUDE COURT REPORTING 706 Duke Straet, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 thna (703} 519n7180 Fax Sig ?190 AF2272.0102 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353127 USUAeg?lzf??fl? EG3 MS. ROFF: However, that parking eutvey Wee dnne when we were having the 1.4 to 1.58 Sqnate-feet. GOULD: Okay. M84 ROFF: So when we pulled nut eome 0f the entpatient activity and teak it tn Lakewood um GOULD: Yen. RGFF: "w some at the parking-went with it. MR. GQULD: Went with it, Okay, MS, ROFF: Sn we?re back to the VA Genetructien new and we?re going to try te fellew the little cable map. Thank_ybn, And tie.neXt pnrtien is planning requirementn, and this in whet E?ve been talking about before that gnawed-our enrollees, our population from ZOlO-nnw that shows what the growth or the decline will he that is projected right newg and this wee need in-the planning for the Surrent facility. On the other hand} we die beek'dewn the Space plan, but that is What Wan on the books at that time. ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272.0103 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353128 EG4 The ueers, which are that-are showing ie Our calculation because appreximatery 72 percent at our are nearer But you will elem that the market share wee pr?jected te go up from a 21 percent market ehere in 2810 to a 34 percent market share Again, this wee the planning medel, but it realty'didn?t drive the space. Jnet se everybody realizee that we did not use that.ae the Space? In 2009, tte ONE 300 was created-for the ?ll budget and we identified that we needed 945,003 square feet-in newly eenetrueted SQuere feet in reneveted Space. That equated t0 the.l,96 millien Square feet that we had ecquired? PETZEL: What was the reneveted geese? MS. ROFF: The renovated spece ie "m we acquired_the University of Physicians, Inc? "m DR. PETZEL: Qkay. MS. ROFF: mm which was en_the Seethweet eerner or the preperty, Right now the Department of Defenee is back into our plan at the Air-Forge. And ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272.0104 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353129 USUAeg?lzf??fl? EGS they left the University of Colorede Hospital because the University of Colorado Hospital raised the rent SQ mueh 0n them and squeezed them out; Sh arrhmugh they were in} they were Out, now they?re-haek in again. So they have one ef four levels and.it?e probably'they have about 30", 40,900 square feet on the fourth floor, and they are actually walking threugh a oonstruetieo Site to get'te their clinic tedayi -Ahd those other three flooref ehe will.be used for administration and the other two will be for mental health eutpetiente. So that?s there? SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Juiet- to pick. up free and this goes back te my visit eht there? Air3Foree hee e.pretty subetehtiel, geed operatiee en the feurth flOor. SPEAKER: Yep. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: And.ee.we5re putting eur facility in place. Air Force eetive duty famiriee, women, in number, and se they_have e_geed petieht workload for women and children. I agree ue to-eeheider, we?re now integrated, if thatke Where we ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272.0105 Denve{mPhase2m??oup2m0353130 USVReg?lzf??fl? get t0, seme opportunity t0 same ef?their fer, you'knewf wemen veterans, vetera? families with children, so that we den?t have :5 necessarily eetablieh a separate, freestandi?g two cliniee, that thenget to use our facility, we get te use theire, and together we harmenize the requirements. And I denft knew what the, you know, the BSD respense will be; but I just think we have to Leek fer waye to my MS. ROPE: I did mention it te.the colonel the next_week. We haven?t gotten te any but I did talk to him about it and he ween?t oppoeed, SECRETARY SRIRSERI: Yeah, okay} MS. ROPE: He didn?t say'yes a: no, we-juSt ?w Something t0 think about. SECRETARY SRINEERI: Yeaht .Dkay? geodt MS. ROFF: Okay. So u" SECRETARY ERINSEEI: The NIH QutCOmeS; right? SPEAKER: Yes, sir. MS. ROFF: We Started leekihg'at thinge that maybe we'eeuld Shift out of the medical center'end we ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272.0106 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m035313?1 Shifted square feet te in Lakewood. .And ee-?hat 15,000 square feet represente twe Clinic medules that came Gut as we had ta reduce some 0f the Space-back to 15,300 square feet; We are advertising fer the.preperty new. We anticipate that we?ll be epening the Lakewoed clinic in 2913* -And-this-will be very to VBA, so we?ll have an eppertanity not :0 necessariLy be eomleeated with VBA, but very-C188e_te and that?s in the procese? We also in that "m SECRETARY SHINSEKI: These are primary Gare Clinie modulee? MS. ROPE: Yea. We alee decreaaed the CLC. The exieting CLC we have right new is 50 beds in Denver; We have another 40 beds in Pneblo. We are Changing-the of our CLC in that it will be primarily restorative and rehab. And we are increasing the nenminstitutional eare that we are previdinq in the community for lengeterm.:eaidenta? we alab_have a number ef reeidenta that are im CLCS tha?'are'eentraeted in the eemmunity. We have about ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272.0107 103 290 Veterans that are in contract CLCs. Ahd ih many instances it is better because they'are closet to theit.hhmes. So we have reduced the CLC from 60 beds to the'EO beds. That was one way'that we were able to reduoe.some of the scope of the project. The other thing that we did that was extremely controveISial is that we eliminated what we have-in our hospital now, which iS.a ZOmhed rehab PTBD shit; That was probably extremely controversial and the congressional delegation wrote and received approval.trom both the secretary and OSFM for minor construction dollars for a separate 29+hed PERT unit, Which will be built on the campus, as the northern half of it. So we will not lose the capability, it?ll just be built with minor Construction dollars versus major construction dollars, so. MR. GOULD: This is a separate-minor oohstruotiOh mm MS. RGFF: Pardon me? MR. GOULD: This is um we-have ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS T06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272.0108 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353133 USUAeg?lzf??fl? 109 Miami experience here that ie instruetiVe. RUFF: Oh, yeah, I knew. MR. GOULD: SQ this is dh?hk of iCe, Separatee from the main glacier, drifts away on the eea, we label it minor Genetruetien, and thet?a perfeetly fine from a legaL standpeint and frem an apprepriatiene standpcint. ROFF: I Checked it aLl out and_we did it, so I hope it?s right. MS. ANDERSON: Yen checked am well we {Laughter} MS. RGFF: We haven?t Started Co?etruetion. MS. ANDERSQN: l?ve got.te thi?k.abeut that, MR, Scuneel; I suggest yeu take the Fifth on that. MS. ANDERSON: have to think about thett MSG ROFF: No, we have not'etarted the eenstruction on it. It was supposed to be-fer *L2=and '13. 'We.are new deing it for ?13 and ?14 because 9f, yeu know, right now it?s Layudown land where'we?re putting-ell the construction trailers for'the major ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272.0109 Denve{mPhase2m??oup2m0353134 USVAeg?lzf??fl? 110 pfe?ect. Hawever, my iny comment ie it was tetally separate; It wee Submitted totally separately, appteved.totally separately, and is prObably a crown jewel of the VA that we need t0 make-sure we comtinue. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: That wee Signed eff an ROFF: Yeaa SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Cou?gel; please cheak. MS. ANDERSQN: I will, I will. MOrez important an MS, ROFF: Just so you knew, On that game preperty; very Close to the CLO, we?ve been apprOved for a Fisher House. And 50, again? the Figher'?duse will be-en the: prapertyi It will be not-with majer dollars, it will net be with minor dellars, it will be with Fisher dollare. And we?re heping-thet that-will be able to be constructed in time for when we aqtually activate the campue, DR. PETZEL: Do we actually have a date that ?u.I-mean a year that they?re leaking at? MS. RUFF: Yeah, 20l3 and 20l4. -ln fact? I ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272.0110 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353135 USV342312XOSJ16 311 Saw Beve-Kreker laet week and said we wanted ?e make sure that we get everything coerdinatedu We den?t want?to be doing utilities and underground.3tuff twice. Let?s try to make sure that we get it done eneew GEGLIGTTI: We have the ene Fieher?House already on the sight. ROFF: The one Henge we have right now has actually been surrounded by the new University of Cologedo fitness Center? They wanted us te'meve and we could not move in time, so they juet built the thing around us. MR. GIGLIOTTI: It?s on the.nerthwe3t part Of the property. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: SD WE'll keep that Open? 80 are we going to operate two or ?m MS. ROFF: My druthere wauid be, me, it would be better to have one. The one we have new ie nine beeg. The one that we would be building weuid be p. .1 Zl?beii. SLCRETARY SHINSEKI: beds? ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272.0111 Denve{mPhese2m?houp2m0353136 112 MS. ROFF: I think it?e'2l beds. I think that*e.the largest they build. In terms of maintaining two having two people have'to manege?it, I would prefer to coneelidate?ite New,'the heard at the Fisher House probably thinks differently, eo-we need to do some talking. What I really have to do is look at how.meny mm'whieh I haven?t lately w" how?mehy Veteta?s We have out in.the community in hotels obviously, Hime.bede in a Fiehet Reuse doesn?t'wotk when we have people coming from many miles away ehd then say what really makes eehee. Maybe it would.meke eehee te operate two. The only problem is, is that the gramme thet the Fisher Houee ie on ie by the FitzsimMOne Redevelopment Authority and eo there?e the potential that they could probably sell and would like to? I?m sure, beoeuse of the placement of the centerl SECRETARY SHINSEKI: What?e the opportUnity to.reeoup the inveetmeht, the Fieher Rouge inveetment? MR. GIGLIGTTI: Have we:looked {inaudible}? ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax 12 AF2272.01 12 Denve{mPhase2m?houp2m0353137 113 MS. RDFF: I deh?t knemiwhat mm GIGLIOTTI: That?s SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Thailand may belong to the tedevelepment corperation, but they get it-baek with e.feeility on it they e'n and there eheuld he a way t0.reeoup? I knew at least fer Fisher then thatTe-e, you knew, potential return of Some investment "w MS. ROPE: You know w" SECRETARY SHINSEKI: ?t te-get the eutcome yeu went. MS. RGFF: One of the ee thie was back whee the Letter was written again by the Calerade delegatieh to you and to the Higher-Foundation tequeetihg this. The university really wahted the property very badly and so one of the wee really encouraging the University of Celerede to eeme.up-with all the mehey that weul? he required up freht fer the Fieher. Yen know, i think yen have te previde $2 millieh up fteht er raiee $2 millieh hp fteht. SO I think that that was same of the ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272.0113 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353138 114 diedhesieh that they had at the time-as Well. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: We.heed t0 tune-beak iht0.that. It may very well be a facility'that they can for the Same purpose. They probably weh?t-be able-to cell it a Fisher Houee, but they can-eehvert it fer-houeihq for families at patients that ge to medical school. DR. PETZEL: The other hart at that is that half of the cost of it is a community effert, raieed by-the-eemmuhity. Se there are likely to pretty large donors in the community that eentributed part-of the money. MS. ROPE: They Should get ef? Gf the Univereity of Celerado. (Laughter) SECRETARY SHENSEKI: You Can 3011 that m" I mean, if-you can arrange, you know, Seme_returh OH the inveetmeht, roll that into the new Fisher gauge 30 their investments are in place. MR. GIGLIOTTI: Right, at eperate twe as lhhgeae'we can. MS. RUFF: All right. I?m'geihg te'g? t0 ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272.0114 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353139 115 the next slide just because I know that'yeu?d aeked about_parkihg before. So, in 2009, we did a parking'etu?y and heede-based on 2928 demand, and they gave us a range ef.needing a low of 2,152 to a high ef 2,l06. "When we needed to make sure that we Stayed withie the cap, we were able t0 come Out with 2,250. Se you See it?s between the low and the average thatfe requiredl Heweveri I would juet mention that we?ve prehably gained-er effeet the need for about 26G parking by going to Lekeweod. So we?re still probably at the average m" SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Net ii you:have t5 run into-a-?? ROFF: I k?ow, I know} SECRETARY SHENSEKI: facility-that wasn?t short cf parking Spacee? MS. ROFF: The potential, if we need more parking epots, is that the campus is trying to acquire parkihg fer offeite and to lease it and te-bue people in, yeu know, on a Shuttle bus. The enly ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax 15 AF2272.01 15 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353140 116 eehttevereiel subject right now is that at all at the heepitals and everything on the campus; We ate the ehly'ORes that will not he ehetgihg for parking for eut employees and; I believef our patiehtem And their one, that we?re not geihg te he Charging, and we?re concerned, tee, that all at the esidehts will start trying to perk em out Spots. ?e we?re going to have-t0 Come up with a very good to keep eet that don?t need to be in there. DR. Employees have to have a eardt They?re not charged, but they need e.eerd. we. ROFF: Yeah, but the'pteblem ie with the reeidehte, you knew, they rotate ih.ehd out? SO j?et keeping up with that ticket ie going te-he taught In fact.~~ MR. GIGLIOTTE: Residents in free? wewt MS. ROFF: Yeah, when the University.ef Celerede.wes aerose the street, the reeidehte were alwaye trying te nab a free parking epet. Se we have a.little-hit of legroom that we didn?t fighte out, ee mayhe'wefd gain 200 additional spate hy'effmleading ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272.0116 117 eutpEtiehts to Lakewood. All right, here is the'bloek diagrams of the facility; Just a couple of commehts I311 make. "We are looking at it from a, I gm?zess,r east to-west, we east at the tap, west at the bottom.mm orientetien. It is 3 Linear model. The architects call it a-ptug- andeplay'model. So it has been totally-designe? or wefre working on the 13D percent ee?struetien documents. There are three parking garages, The ene parking garage is, if you look at the parking and visitors by the mental health building or the eiihie building south, it?s underground, and that is to allow patients to be able to access your and treatment, your inpatient, your eutpetient, and year mental health, so that there won?t.he a large.walking distehCe-for them? And then at the corner of ITth and Wheeting is-ehether perkihg garage for patients. And then the northern half of the property is parking garages, CLO, Fisher House, and the PRTP. So more of'the residential property is on the northerh.half. About ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272.0117 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353142 118 at the Space is fat diagneetie inwtteatment and inpatient; 21 for Qutpatient; and the remaining 37 percent for research, the CLC, the energy center, administration, and the concourse; SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Whette-themlength? I knew you were geing to ask me. I Can?t-tell you, I?m sorry, I Sheuld have knewn. PGGANY: It?e feetl SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Twelve.hUHdred.feet. MR. PGGANY: A quarter 0f milel SECRILARY SHINSEKI: I?m.juet think Qt.the l? Wetet Gate of elderly veterans having te get; you k?owr adress campus on a walker or WhEElchait, j?St 'meking Sure it?e reaeonable -- that-they aceess physically. MS. ROFF: When we meaeured m" that was a Cencern to me and we meaeured the distances that our" eurtent_patients now have to walk from our parking garage to their treatment areas. 'This i3 aetually less-than out patiente walk new, Homevet, I believe that ptebably we will need to have some kind at valet ANDERSCN COURT 706 Duke Street, Suite Alexandria, Phene {703) Fax HOS). Denvet?PhaseE_??oup2QU353142 AF2272.0118 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353143 119 parking system fer some 0f the patients jug: because you see an elderly man 0: woman with their SPOUSE that are elderly as well walking with a-walker mm SECRETARY SHINSEKI: nygen tank. MS. ROFF: mu Qr the oxygen tank and I-think it will be an operatienal that'we axe-going to havazte bear. DR. PETZEL: Where WOuld b& the ER amd-the MS. RQFF: The ER is I WiSh I had a "w MR. HAGGSTOM: We got that. MS. RGFF: DO we have a *4 MR. We hav? a r?d'cne. MS. RQFE: All right. IS it mm MR. Yeah. MS. ROFF: Do you see it? DR. PETZEL: Do that one er the Secretary. Turn.it behind you and d0 that one for the secretary. MS. RUFF: All right, the ER is right MR. It doe3nft DR. PETZEL: It dmesn?t work-on screen. ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS Duke Streat, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phona ?703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272.0119 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353144 120 MS. ROFF: MS. ROFF: Why can?t I get it-en? SPEAKER: It won?t shew en the screen. The ER is right.here. Separate parking and dropwoff right here. DR4 PETZEL: Ah, ekay. ROFF: And access right through here? Q: With eur critical decisions group that-included many V805, area- this that wee probably one of the mee? centreversial we worked and rewerked and rewerked.eo tha? there Would be parking where they them off, that it weuld be easy into the building. diag?estie and treatment and stuff like that, DR. PETZEL: Se for, like, outpatient same drapeeff there? and treatmert you could came in through here, right here, parki?g. M84 ROFF: NC. For outpatient diagnostic erp-eff and go aerose. DR. PETZEL: Qkay. MS: ROFF: And under here is un?ergreund SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Right. ANDERSQN COURT REPDRTINS 706 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 {703) 519w?180 Fax Phone AF2272.0120 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353145 $21 MS. ROFF: And there are.seme parking Spete eat here; but it weuld be in through here and then doWh'?n?erheath, but dropmoff here here, PETZEL: Okay, thank-you; MR4 POGANY: Yeah, the-biggeet Consideration with the emergency dropweff was the 50" feet Setback that we need to maintain with w" PETZEL: What?s it for? MR. POGANY: The vehicles can?t be withih.50 foot of the building. Se even theugh they?re dteppihg- them off at the emergency teem, they etill get t0 perk ehd drep-eff 58 feet away from the buildinge Se they either have to have call butteh and the pecpte came Gut te'get them end take them into the emergehey teem as oppoeed to just driving up like an ambulance would, but they-don?t have that same type of drivemoff Capability~ DR. PETZEL: Right. MR: PGGANY: But the can pull right Up-to the drepueff bay. DR. PETZEL: Right. ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272.0121 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353146 USVAeg?izf??fl? :22 MS. ROFF: And as I said; this Was a very Gehtreversial thihgi We had many of ear United VeteraRS'Committee part at this ahd We Came up With the very best solution we could with what Tim is gelling this erepweff area and the h?mfeet setbaek, which is very, very difficult. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: So was all of this dehei this design dropweff and se'fertha hefere the Gap was imposed or after the cap? MS. seer: It was after the Cap-was imposed this was done, yeah. Portions of the building such as; say; the north clinic building,-was dens "t had beeh'ihitiated before because we Weald alWays have a Clinic-building, whether it was a health care center or it was an inpatient hospital, but the diaghestie and treatment was afterwards, the inpatient was afterwards. So most of this was all after the.eap had And we had, just as peeple knew, we had abeut 80 different user groups of employees that worked-eh all of the medels. And yen have te give ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272.0122 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353147 i23 them credit because they?ve gone threngh.tnree different iterations and stuck with it,'and'tney did an~exgellent job. ?nd then every'Thnredayg We eeula have a meeting that would be the leadership nf the heap-itali the joint venture team, whieh is the architects and engineers, and Selected membere from the Paralyzed Veterans Of America and otheerSOS that Wenld came te previae their input, Se we made sure that they were part of the ae well a3 the nniene that were invited. {a g. All right. In the 2 fer review. That?s in 2039, ana CFM decided to ?ee the integrated design assist matheaciagy'that Tim is going te be talking about very snertly, and-that ie fer the Contracter and new the contractor was brought on. In 2010, Congress autherized the prejeet as a full-replacement hospital at $800 nillien, And new I believe Mr. Sullivan is geing te'talk a little bit abent and the autherizatien MR. SULLIVAN: Thank yen. Back when-tnie ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax 519e?19Q AF2272.0123 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353148 usveegelzjesxle :24 project was submitted in the 2810 budget in its final form there was obviously ween?t in place at that'time. We had the prioritizatiOn that used a somewhat similar, but a little bit different, criteria? It wee evaluated in that progesee And in the year when we identified all of the CARES money, which wee back in 2934, it ranked thh-of 29 projects that were actively evaluated at the time and became the basie for the releaee and the apprOprietioh and further authorizatioh request for whet.wee known at the time as the CARES of preteetee So if you flip to the next page it-givera yen a history of this? And as I Said earlier, this wee probably one of the mere difficult projectef at least at my tenUre at VA. 'We had eight separate appropriation actions to try and get the money for thie project. We had -multiple authorization requeete, eeveral Qf which were denie? and not acted upon becauee of'a view by some in eur committee structure on the Hill, a hegetite View on the project. just don?t know how me any other ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272.0124 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353149 125 Way te put it. It?s net worth debating why they had that View; but that was met there and that?s what talks were dealing with at the time, trying to get legislation both on the authorization aide and'the apprepriatien aide moving. And it teak a let of effett and you can see the second en the first aetien was-the $38 millien for the design 2004? As part of this difficulty; a tepragramming action wae We kind of an innovative ene wae.dreamed up: t0 be able to keep the project movihg and $25-million wae made available back in 2006. And then each year Subsequent to that, small of the prejeet were :equaseea, even as if the total Eixed emcunt Of the project-still was net determined, whether it wae geing to be mm what size of a freestanding tertiary care facility-or a heapital within a hospital or eeme ether Variatien that was discuesed during this timey There was much the Hill talks-about varieua variatione of theae'prejeets ?ee'of the project as it went forward, trying to find a fit te get-the right, if you will, stare aligned 30 that RUDE COURT REPORTING 706 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703} 519n7180 Fax AF2272.0125 DerivermPhase2mGroup2m0353150 USVAeEelzf??fl? :26 we could get an authorization and an appropriation. Sothisi as they said finally, you know? was put to an end.at the start of your time here Where we leaked in on the'$800 million and on the cost and the size at that as a freestanding facility, And the next slide just shows you a couple of-the-authorizatien requests where what was made the speeifie Citations? And, again, in 2808, we requested authorization, but couldn?t get one due to the discussions and views on the projeet from the folks in the authorization committees, And next I thought it Neale be ee you'would air, to give a little bit of breakaawa in terms 0f as each of these requests went forwardx what the size Changes were and kind of a summary fermat. And you see seer as we started early on with.this prejeot, it was much smaller at the early stages. And these are budget years, so you would loek.at the timeframe of'aetual completion of the work 3: a summation of the views were done probably about i8 months before this 2D04s ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272.0126 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m035315?1 USUAeg?lzj??fl? E27 So this was stuff done i? 2003 fer the 2004 timeframe. And as yen can seef and I think as the different folks have talked about, a3 the prmjec; came up to that 1.4 million level and then locked in at 860,000 and then tied in at the Square feotege 0f 945,000 square feet, which wee the final ameunt that was authorized by back in 261G. And aS-we?ve asked for the last Of that money in 20l1 and_2@l2, we have held to that figure and within the authorized. amoumt-and the authorized size. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Whet.doee the ?nfa? in beds Mea?? No Change? MR. SULLIVAN: No Change, yesg At that paint "m SECRETARY SHENSEKI: 30'188? SULLIVAN: Yeah, SECRETARY SHINSEKI: And what ?reve the SCI increase of one bed? MR: SULLIVAN: I believe it was part_ef the deeig?.cenfigurationy but I will have.tQ-defer. MS. RUFF: I think there may be a ?laW' ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272.0127 DerivermPhase2mGroup2m0353152 123 there. I think it?s OHIV 30. I don?t think it?S 31. MR. SULLIVAN: You think it?s Only 38? DR. Yeah, it Would be umusu?ld MS. ROFF: Yeah, that may be a typm~ because I?m_th aware Qf it. DR. PEIZEL: There?s a very Standard cgnfiguration, a very standard number of beds, and itfs 38+ sure that?s haw it should be, SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Okay; Time far a Ibreakw -Are you dame? MR. SULLIVAN: Yeah, abaelutely. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Okay? I'Want to gome back'at 10 aiter. (Recesg) SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Thank yam, Bab Neary? MR. MERRY: The next brief taday i$ gaing'tQ 'be pregented by Tim Poyany. Tim is our pxcjeat exemmtive at the Site. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Okay, Tim; MR. IOGANY: Okay. I?m gaing to Start with the ~W=eaaentially the design for-the-mm- ANDERSON COURT EEPQRTING 706 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone {703} Fax QIOSI AF2272.0128 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353153 :29 SECRETARY SHINSEKI: This ie the ehgiheerihg' piece here, right? MR. POGANY: This is the-ehgiheerihg piece; This is the sehematie, the desigh'fer the current prejeet that we are working on. We started pertiehe ef the design in SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Right? PGGANY: Which was heSed Q?.the prejectf add what we did is we pulled hut specific pieces at that prejeet that we thought would'hever change, if it wee either going to deei with the HGCF er Whether it was geihg to go full replaeemeht; 30; We Started deeigh werk Oh the "u SECRETARY SHINSEKI: So; the cerei MR4 POGANY: "m the facilitiee, which included the renewetieh ef the existing UPI buildmih, becauee that?s ehe.ef the eutpatieht functions. We also did the.ehergy eehter here, and eheut ehe~haif of the eeheeuree haee_heeause that Weuld he the Same no matter What we did in the fhture, If we did a diagnostic and treatment center' ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272.0129 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353154 USVAeg?lzf??fl? :30 aerCSS'the corridor for a full replaeemeht.medieal center, it we did the diagnostic treatment center for an ECG, that one an the buildmin wanid.change but its locatien in relationship te the concourse would never? ehangei So, these are the parte ef-the design.that we started-werking on early? That?s what.we eventually, enee:we eenverted into the full replacement medieal sehter,'we centinued with the design-er those. One of the things we did in the process of mating from preliminary design inte achematie desigh ie, we moved the iocatien of the energy center based en'eomplaints from the rest of the campus that they Wenld.prefer to have ene Of the interseetiens that was net the-busiest intersection in the entire City? Se, we did relocate that and swap it with the research building} .0 new, the research building and the U91 building; which is the Clinical and Senthf are the same] SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Can_yeu refer us re the :map and just give us an idea what You?re.taiking ahcmM1? ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272.0130 DerivermPhase2mGroup2m0353155 331 MR. POGRNY: Okay. SPEAKER: Go back to the map. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Paper.map.i3 ri?e; POGANY: We?re talking at tie South end at the.eampue. If you look at mm ROFF: Look at Colfax v" POGANY: Thie one here "u Se it?s the CelfaX'ehd of the property and we?re talking about the South haif of the property? This is what we were looking et deeigning, with the exception of the because this one is dependent on if it?e inpatient or eutpatient, the amouht of space that?e in there and the amount of diagnostic equipment that?s geinq into this would be Significantly different if it?e an inpatient buildihg versus outpatient? 30 We didh?t do any-design work on that;r but we did-the design-work on this portion of the deeign of the.projeetiahd we didn?t-touch the inpatient or the pertiene the inpatients would go'awey under the and the BET would either grow or ehrihk depending on whether we were doihg_ihpatient functions ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272.0131 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353156 132 ae'Well as outpatient functions. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Where iS thi? intersection you were talking about? MR. PQGANY: The intereectiQn-em itre in thie parkway, Colfax.Avenue an? -Thie intersection right here is the very busiest intersectien in the entire city of Aurorea SECRETARY SHINSEKI: What did'they ask us for? MR. POGANY: They asked ue te mQVe the energy center from being on thie corner up-te thie earner, ard right at the other iteration ef the ?eeign 'we did.have the building up hete, sc.we_jus: kind'ef flipped the twe buildingei SECRETARY SHINSEFI: See. PQGANY: And actually, it made it mere efficient fer our campue because ?er the future expensien across the 17th Place it made the tune of pipe-aetually Shorter, 80 it did Save meney_pntting it SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Geode ANDERSON COURT REPORTING 706 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA Phone (703} 519w7180 Fax AF2272.0132 DerivermPhase2mGroup2m0353157 :33 MR. POGANY: Qkay, during the project deveiepment we aasigned the Congtructicn.managemgnt Staff at.the Site, resident engine?rs mm SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Gm'back'te the previGuS glidei And if you put a fingei?Qr-a tip Qf-a pen to a point where the decision was made t0 go to a freestanding, that would have occurred when? In 2399? I dQH?t know mm MR. POGANY: It wag m" SECRETARY SHINSEKI: my March'2009? soi in t?rmg of your schematic degign, there?s.n0 Change, Yam were-already focuged on core elements and you?re deSignihg towarda that? We?d lest-a-iittle bit Of inefficiencies becauae some things did Chahge? Like, we.were.0riginally planning for the Clinic building south'ta be mastiy adminigtrative Sgaces3 I think that was prior to D03 coming back into the picture. Ghee DQD came back in and they Say they need_te be up and running by X, Y, 2 date nu SLCRETARY SHINSEKI: See, these are factarg ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Streat, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phona ?703) Fax AF2272.0133 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353158 :34 that=doo?t you know? in the timelioe these were we made but, in fact, they impacted.our timeline. so, we need to be Sate we capture these points. MR4 POGANY: They impacted our timeline for our decision?making because if you-go-dowm-a certain path end you're expending a certain amount of energy, you'hope that you recoup a majority?of your investme?t in that Specific deeign that you were doing and then, you know; six months later you find-out that that was not really the correct to make and that because you*re adding different fu?ctione in your'ee like I Said, decided to flipeflop the a energy center from where it was Loeated to different location because of other fact :84 The amount of time that-we spent looking at putting it at ite current loeation_wae somewhat waeted. However, the ultimat; design-of it was not really wasted, it was just transposed to a different portion of the Site. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: But'thete?e a time value here? When you're looking for the most ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272.0134 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353159 Ugvaag?lzf??fl? :35 efficient proceaa mm POGANY: Cortact. Yeah, normally this procass Would be nine months to a year. wefre at 18 montha'with the way that wa did itr because yam g0 down a.path, you den?t want to pracead and_ihveat all year eggs in one basket SQ you dO-a partial and than it?a.lika yeu'va get to go back and reuwark.aoma of the mark that yam had t0 do SECRETARY SHINSEKI: What you?re teliing me i3; to be efficient yam have to have a dacisimn, right? MR. PGGANY: Cortes SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Yam have ta hav? a ac you could commit and begin to put tesources around develapihg that decision} And anything-that?a ?w I mean, right now yeuyra-attaddling a line; That?a going to be HCC, it cauld be a and you're gaing t0 gamble, right? Yau*rejgoihg to be 60, 70 percent right and'yau?re walkihg down the middle and could go either dir??ti??h But there is a time value ta that, becauae it?s not ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Streat, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phona ?703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272.0135 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353160 USVAeg?lzf??fl? 136 efficient. POGANY: There?s e'benefit and then there was a risk te it, toe. 80y yeei In the leng run it'may have taken us a Little bit mere time but it wee not juet total putting the arehiteet on euepeneien and not having them embeerd at all. It was, we were with the Same design teemr This Way, the teamd Some of the maybe not the we didn?t reap the EGG-percent be?efit but we might have gotten a 69 er TO or 80 percent investment en our dollar that we spent Qriginelly because a lot of the time and effort was put into the project. It was ju?shr ekay, yeu'pick it up and meve it here. You didn?t the entire design precess but you lest some at it, SECRETARY SHINSEKI: But there*e.e east asepeiated with that ?m MR. POGANY: Correct. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: we and part Qf_:he ?eet 1g the.ameunt of time it took. MR. POGANY: Correct. ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272.0136 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m035316?1 13? SEWRETARY SHINSEKI: 9 *efs?s 18 months, OE whatever; We find ourselvee in a peeitien again where Weire having te etraddle. What we enght tn?be puehing for the decision? 30 we get en with it. And knowing in the paet thie'hae ?eet ue.an additienai nine months, and we Ought to avoid that if possible, right? MR. PGGANY: Cerreet. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Okay; MR. POGANY: Okay, next. Slide is censtruetien management staff to training. The Senior- engineer was aeeigned during the deeign developmene Stage, This was prior to the majeiity ef the Genetruetien en the site, 5e we were able te bring-him onbeard, use hie expertise in same of the design review Then, the additional Staff were brought an ae the different pertiene.ef the prejeet -were actually awarded for eenetruetien. That wee ;meetiy the renovation ef the elinie building itself, SECRETARY SHINSEKI: When, in fadt,'dae8 ?he engineer um resident engineer came-on beard? COURT 706 Duke Street, Suite 100. Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone {703} 519w?180 Fax 519m?190 AF2272.0137 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353162 :38 MR. PDGANY: He came en.boatd d?fi?q.th? design-?evelopment stage. SECRETARY SHINSEKII Yeah, but that d?Sign goes from 2l0 te Ell, ea what do we tell about that? MR4 POGANY: He?e been'with me for a_yeer and a'half new. 80 he wee probably ?at 9 monthe before-we awarded the first nu SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Just piek-a date fa: me. 17m just trying to get a feel for where in this processl MR, PGGANY: I went to Say August 0f 201.0w Auguet.of ?lO. SECRETARY SHINSEKE: AuguSt-E?l?. W33 that the right time? Sheuld it have been earlier? Could it have'been later? MR. POGANY: It could have been later. it wee prebably the right time because he was net empleyee when we hired him, so we tried to bring him an heard with the VA way of doing business, and alga he was eating on my behalf a3 part ef my prejeet management team and I was teaching him not only ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272.0138 DenvermRhase2mGroup2m0353163 USVAeg?lzf??fl? :39 type functiens but else project functions. 80, he was involved in seme 0f the design review precese that normally a reei?ent engineer is not involved with4 SECRETARY SEINSERI: ery, I?m.juet.trying te-get a feel for whether or net timing?wise-there is a um whe appeints the resident.emgimeer? PQGANY: The residth-engineer "w ie?'t it.an advieory board mw MR. We did a demolitien,.also, early on. Early on we did a demelitien eneite, There wee a building we had te demolieh and remove the asbeStOS. That was early on; MR, FLOR: What he?e saying is that there was another RE staff member already at the Site SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Yeah. MR. FLOR: mm watching the demelitiene. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: I seel Qkay} 30 August QGIO was abeut right? MR. POGANY: Yee. Fer this prejedt; yes; SECRETARY SHINSERI: IS there a desigm'here ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272.0139 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353164 E40 weTre lacking at? 1*m trying to get the guys; So, there?s a medel we say do a project Like.this, you know? We?ve got a_pr0eess we can leek at'and Say, we'll adjust it but that?e the MR4 NEARY: Fer meet ef.eur projects we de not use this kind 0f a pyramid methed} We-weuld bring the resident engineers en beard Shortly befere Genetruetien starts? In thie model, the Genstruetiee Gentraeter axrivee on the scene eaxlier in the supporting role. It would be better, I think; t0 have the reeident engimeere, eexe of them, there earlier? They eetablish the relationship to the diaeretion of the ee?traeter, they participate in the eenetru tability reviewe that the Genetructien ce?tracter i3 doing for us? I think it just impreves the of then moving into eenetruetienj SECRETARY SHINSEKI: You knew,'I de??t have a deg in this fight, 1*m just trying to-get us to identify.what Serves us best, and_knewing which eehetruetion model we?re going after We e?gh? to be able ?e say, hire the design engineer er the reeident ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272.0140 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353165 USVAeg?lzf??fl? 341 engineer? plug him in here so that there?s eariy connection with the, you know, contractor; And the Sense I get is, we move along and then these things happen, and I?m trying to get me to discipline ourselves and eatabliah, you know, pointe.in time where milestones are made and everybody knows it?s going to be made and if you're-going to adjust, you adfuat off or it rather than you have no model-and you sort of, you know, make a decision because everybody realizes, oh, we?ve got to-dO'thiei MR, PGGANY: Yeah, for this epeeifio project in NeW'Grleane, thin was a brand new wheel to the VA ayatam in doing stuff. Normally wE'wauie either do a project and you-know exactly-when you?re going to bring on the resident engineer staff, and the other one is designmbid?huild and you.know that youire going to bring on the resident_engineer When you know ?on're going to be making the award] Sof thoae are the two models that we?re'uaed to dealihg'with. Thin in integrated deaign.and nonstruot, and we did bring them onboard once we ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272.0141 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353166 E42 Started the design development and we erUth the construction contractor "m they were deihg pre~ cohetruetion services mm at the ehd Of Schematic 2 deeighg which is the start of DD. Se we think en ell.thet we did bring the reeideht engineer-eh time we Oh'heard at prebebly the right timefreme fer this type:ef project deliveryi SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Okay} SQ, we?re geihg te peg in thie model August as abeut right, and timihgmwiee that'e what we?re going to put an the medel? MR. POGANY: I think itfs pegged te the Start Of the design develepment if ycufee-bringing the centreeter embeerd at the ehd ef an SD design? 80, yes. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: But'Auguet 2010 would put it 6 months behind the start ef DD here. SO what are you tellihg me? lt?e better to have them eh at an MR. POGANY: It might have been better te have-them on a little bit earlier, but I think.lh the entire interim process we did mm ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272.0142 DerivermPhase2mGroup2m0353167 USVA42312EOSJ16 E43 SECRETARY SHINSEKI: me; I?m not criticizing what we.did. What I'm trying t0 find Out is, yeu?re the guys that are going to deliver here. When weuid you have wanted that resident engineer, you knew? echematiu design i3 dome. DO you want that reeident engineer; you know, Januaty 2010?: Identified,-meviug forward, leaking fer the centracter eeiectien 50 that you Link in and Start thie precees? Gr do yen want. me me, no, we need Six months after SD, and let us do other'things, and you get tte design an the resident eugineer identified Six months after the procees. I?m asking_here. Whatever it ie, we ought ta dedide, I weuld want the-Senior there the day the contractor arriveef in this particular procurement method. That would have bee?, yeu knew, in February of That?e when they Started, SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Okay, 39 start at designi MR. NEARY: Design development, MS. MILSTEN: Actually, ?ather than'tying-it ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272.0143 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353168 144 to ;eeiqn development, we?d tie it t0 when are We -bringiBthbe eenetruetioe contraetor en beard? SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Okay; fair enough. I 'mean, that?s the way we ought te peg these se we have it in Okey,-goedt POGANY: We assigned additienal Staff a3 the_prejeet developed and we are still building up eur Staff! 'We have hired mm SECRETARY SHINSEKI: How many resident engineers do we have in the system? MR, NEARY: Appreximetely 14G en majer GenetruCtien ?n MS. QUECKER: Well, there*s Only 116 new en beard, but we?re trying tO-remp-up "u MR4 MERRY: We?re ramping up te'le? in the eenstruction Side, and about mm we-heve abeut.2? right new on the leasing side. remping that up ever the eeuree of the next year to argued 45, I think it 134.- MS. QUICKEL: Right. SHINSEKI: We:have emeugh reei?ent ANDERSCN COURT REPORTING 706 Duke Street, Suite 1-3-50. Alexandria, Phene {703) 519w?180 Fax AF2272.0144 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353169 E45 engiheets authorized? MS. QUICKER: Yeah! We have 20 of authetiZed staff. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Shay, all right; M84 QUICKER: It?e trying te get them an beerd_ahd keep thema SECRETARY SHINSEKI: A.different discuseien MS. QUICKER: Yeah? SECRETARY SHINSEKI: but at least We have the authorization to fill those geeitiohe. MS. QUICKER: Yes, that?s not an POGANY: Okay, thie is a Slide Of-eut integrated project delivery team, and then project delivery-team mm integrated project-team and the project delivery team, which is essentially my steif in the-medical center. Medical center has eix= eeple eh their Staff that are dedicated felletime to.thie Speeifie-preject. They have same ether fUHCtiehe With the outpatient clihiee in Colorade Springs and Pueblo ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272.0145 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353170 E46 and LetewOed, but their major functinn was int the project.devn. team. My etatf, cuttently we hate-ll people-on board and we pteject tn have 18 Once we tamp?up total grewth capacity during the next, probably, six t0 eight months. maneqets that ate working fer US in varioue capacitieef we have ll of them Qn'beatd and we anticipate raining their staffing function up to 26. Mast of those will be inspectors. Rightihew we pretty much have out fulletime engineers Qh'beerd; We are hiring a scheduling eeneultaht thrnugh the construction manager that?s gaing to he helging he put tegethe: the integrated thjECt schedule; the funetien schedule, and doing all the cost and schedule impacte with the Genettuction contractersi So, that?e nne of the functinns tiey will be monitoring an nut behalf. Gkay, going into the other part of the designw This is the deeign develepment Stage and the tenettuCtion document phage. We have braken_it ihtn multiple packages 30 that we can, as part of this ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272.0146 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m035317?1 E47 delivery process, you have multipteepaekagee of design that are Specific to activityf Such ae-elcavatien, the foundatione; the home Structure, Super structure; core and Shell, and interier titeeut peekegee that make up the entire project, as well ee the effsite infraetrneture package. We pulled eut?the Cemmunity living center a5 a seperete package that one'e been redesigned a couple times te?meet the current criteria. What you see is.en everlap 0f the design development and the constructie? do?uments because of the different packages being eempleted in different One of the things right new is the prejeeted eempletien of the 100 percent censtructien'decumentS as of.Auguet 2012, which is a sample menthe eutw Part of thet ie of our peer review We leet all of our IDQ RES that provided peer review mm SECRETARY SHINSEKI: What-does that-mean? JuSt-Sey what you juet said, becauee of e?r um MR. POGANY: We had a Gore eet'ef ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272.0147 DerivermPhese2mGroup2m0353172 E48 indepeneent IDQ RES that review Ont deeumentsl SO, we had a five"Yeer contract with one set of consultants thethi?.all that work. When we get te the end of our design development, which is going into the percent Construction doeumente, er the 95jpereent conetrnetien deenmente, we needed that peer review to take place. We lest all five of these people that were-doing the peer-reviews for net It was the end of their contract delivery'time. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: But we muet have known their Contract wee Gaming up, right? MR. POGANY: Yes, we did, SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Could we have anticipated the extent of the contract, rewwrete a eentreet? What are we talking about? MR, POGANY: We had the eelieitetinn Qut fer the next.reund of IDC contractors. However, I think there were Some mm let's See pretests that tranepired that elewed down the of bringing an the mm actually, it'e the'tnird iteration'ef ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272.0148 DenvermRhese2mGroup2m0353173 E49 the'peet-teviewets "m on board. So; there Wee a disconnect between when one group ended and the other gtOup Started up. SECRETARY SHINSRKI: Ie there anything we eouid have done anticipating that this contract wee going t0.ruh out right in the middle cf when we needed it and no hiccups? Ceuid we have terminated eehttact or mewed ihte the negotiatieh at the next Centrect add tried to get smoothnese here? Are there any'optiehe for us? MR, NEARY: We Should have either started Qurjpreeurement of the hext round.ef IDQS earlier,-er W?-She?ld have eterted earlier. we did use entidipete the deleye that we were geing to eheeunter in thet procurement. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: When would.we have seen this? .Wheh Should we have Seen that this was gqihg te be-eh And who eheuid have and-whet Should we have dene? MR. NEARY: Probably whet we eheuid have. done is in the prior procurement, staggered it. ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272.0149 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353174 g?g That*e'What we?re doing now ie staggering it; he that they all wouldn't run out at the same time} SECRETARY SHINSEKI: okay; POGQNY: Itge either he yeahr All Of them either reached their eep so yeu eeuldh*t utilize that consultant, or the_ reeched the end of their time peried and so you couldn?t use these censultente any mereE So then we brought Oh the heXt group{ and theh like Bob?s saying is we heed to stagger them 30 there?s eiweye going to be overlap When we go tram ehe eet 0f eontreete te the next eet ef'five?yeer eentrecte. SECRETARY SHINSEKE: Why didn?t we have that in place before? I mean, we have it in place new because Of learhihg the hard way that we don?t want this? Gr did we have this as a and juet failed to execute and it crept up on he? that are We talking about here? Who watches thihge; end-Vho i3 supp??ed to m- :Iou knew, in this CZiQ'mpleX whe helds up the red flag and gmihg to have'a problem here if you deh?t d0 Semethihg eheut ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272.0150 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353175 351 thia? What I?m trying to avoid is semebedy, after we~have this train wreck, Say yen know, you eheuld have known this was cemihg. Okay; l-get it, Eat it would have been more helnful fer semeene t0 eayf yen knew, eight months out you?ve get a train wreck eomieg becauee-this leeks like it?s going to be emaekudab in the middle of a transitiOh? You want @683 review available and your contracts all-run outl How do we aveid'this in the future? MR, In the future-we?re going te the Staggered procurement ee that'we den*t hate this optien, 80 that when we select a centraatae that?s geihg te g0 with a lchgurange prejeet-suCh-ae a Denver or New Orleahe, that we can select Qne in the youth of their contract and have them fear of the five years. What we didn?t have experience with is the number-of protests. At the time we were out gelieiting is about the same time we saw the upwtief in the pretest largely over our implemehtatiem.ef the service disabled veteranuowned Small bueimees ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272.0151 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353176 :52 COhtfaCtS. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Okay; ME. MILSTEN: And, we got'eaughti SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Okay. SO, whe owne this? I awn it, I ewe it. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Yen an it? KYRGOS: Yes. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: And itie in the proceSS? All right. ME, Yes, we have the can report on all SECRETARY SHINSEKI: I?m serry. KYRGOS: DCAA played en-important role and for the first time they came alomg and said, we?re net going t9 be doing any audite for anything thanj$l? million. They were everioaded. They were taking mere time to do the audits; but we?re net talking about two or three menthga It'wae like three times at least more than it normally takee. Se, ii was another obstacle in the way, bu: we should have ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272.0152 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353177 :53 better on that. MR. MILSTEN: And On that Gee we?ve 3130 taken Steps to make sure we don?t get caught there again-by engaging with the DAIG ae-an Option to de eut required field pricing or audit euppert. SECRETARY SEINSEKI: Okay; End is all ef thie transparent t0 the medical center directet and the VISN directoryeu thew, ie it in.eny way MR4 EGGANY: Yes. MS, RGFF: We knew what wee going enw MR. POGANY: There were, they?re ietegrated into the deeign peer teView peacess becauee the six peeple that she hee on her Stef?, they attended all the meet group meetings and they attend all the peer reviews, the design teeiewe. Se, theyire an integrated part of the team. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: All right. MR. POGANY: The ether-pert that'we need to talk-abeut en thie Slide "u SECRETARY SHINSEKI: This is net geing t0 ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272.0153 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353178 :54 happee.again, right? POGANY: Ned Is that the integrated centraetor, they'did'not bring en their design assist Submcontraetere-until they were awarded the entire mm er, were guaranteed that they were going to be awarded the entire eenettuetien project and, therefore, they held eff-on bringing their true deeign eesiet submeenttaetets en~b0erd, Se, they-were brought on probably-later in the then.they should have been, and that is probably driving out the actual completion date, which is Why we extended out to 8 at 2012 We have to integrate their cenetructebility~type iSSnee inte.tne 100 percent design document $0 that item-Day we don?t 100 percent documente that we*re going to get 1,030 RFIS along mm we're going to handle all the RF: process SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Yeu can have a campeey next time, because if you were the eentraeter yeu weulenTt went to bring on hired help until yen were aeeured you were going to get a me right? 80 yea can ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272.0154 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353179 355 Underetand the motivation there, but how do you protect our interests here? MR. POGANY: I think it?s.having better pram construction services deeoribed in their actual eontreet ee to what they're responsible for doing, and we-have money up front that we could pay either them or their consultants or their subwcontreetere that they want to bring on with their eXpertise in mechanical, engineering on.board earlier, an? we pay them for their pre~00hetructien Services to help up through the conetructien deemment phage; SECRETARY SHINSEKI: So When Should that have occurred in this cycle? MBA POGANY: This one Should heVe occurred as.soon as the IDC contractor wae'hiredl He Should have'breught on board hie submcohtractors.that he.wae thinking of utilizing, or at least the.oneTe he?s need to Warring with. Bring them en early for their expertise on their epeoifie portiene of Ehe the projeet? ANDERSQN CQURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703; Fax AF2272.0155 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353180 156 SECRETARY SHINSEKI: JuSt'piCK a date GE there fer me. PGGANY: I?m geihg to g0 back'to the start-Of the design development stage. it should haxna happened in February 2610. The eenatruetieh eentraeter wag on board, they were deihg-their eehstruetability reviewa, but their subueehaultanta that were doing the Specialty work, thEy didn?t have their expertiee. They just had their own inwheuse peeple deihg that type of work. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: 30, had they agreed with we and brought their peeple on ih February 2310, When weuld we have Seen the Gemstf?etieh document Sampletien? Estimate we would have finished the comettuetien deeigh? PQGANY: If we didn?t have the preblem with.the.peer review we probably wouid_be ?ame right -hew, as a matter of fact. Probably Maymtimeframet I think is what we had originally anticipated. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: May ef'thia year? MR. PQGANY: Yea, is when we probably should RUDE COURT REPORTING 706 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703} 519n7180 Fax Sig ?190 AF2272.0156 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m035318?1 l5? have-tested 106 percent constructien deeumente; SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Se.it ue abeut Seveh.mehths? POGANY: Yee. Between the two things, yee, SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Okay. POGANY: But the benefit at this is: right new the eenstruetien Centrecter is deing werk- They?re doing their activities that they need te do?te keep the project progressing en eeheeule because of the earlier paekegee. Gee of the things we can do with this is leek at things that we can pull Out at the laet twe big packages that are smaller pieces and award them to give deeigee te the construetien t0 keep them Wetting} which 1 would be-like the underground utility werlg That r} would be the next type of work activity that he weuld need to release to his subcontractors. So these are the typee of things we can do te mitigate these type ef'effeete en the project. think we have that further in one of ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272.0157 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353182 USVAeg?izf??fls :58 other slides. MR. MILSTEN: TO be a little bit more clear on that, we have the ability to award the undergrOUHd utilities, the site utilities, before we complete the reef design. So we are actually starting to follow some of those models of fastutraoking, where you start the initial phases while you?re still completing the design_of some of the phases that will tot be affected by.ew or will not affect changes into the site utilities and infrastructure. MR, PGGANY: Okay. This is a.Slide about the Phase 1 procurement for the design build, servioee diSabled vetereeuowned small business? This is Where we awarded small portion of the work to a small business to do the initial demolition work.that seeded to be done in order to construct the oempue. It-wes.a setweside to a servicemdisabled veteran for, I guesS, t0 meet-our contracting goals. But.one.of-the things it'did was showed this Congressional we members of the coloredo delegation that also the'veteran serVioe organizations that we were actually going to do ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax (iOEi AF2272.0158 DerivermPhese2mGroup2m0353183 :59 something at the site. So, this wee shortiy'after we awarded the architect the design centreet fer the main campus; Ghee we made the decieien that we*re a tell replacement medical center, one of the thinge we.wehted te e0 wee after the greundhreakihg, shew that we aetueily were deing some werk en it at the Sit?g Be, that was one Of the of this It finished pretty mueh.en time. We.had.one problem where mm which 15 on a different slide we where we had additional eebeetee abatement.in eeme the buildings they had to demo, but that did net affeet.the overall prejeet as a where} Okey, thie is the Selicitetien fer the current integrated design and Genetrnet centraeterd We hired Kiewit Turn r, a joint venturei Thie-wee.e During that initiai_etep, What We de is evaluate the their past performance and their qualifieetiene, and then the second step ie their technical prepeeal and their that we are evaluating to make'the award of ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272.0159 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353184 E60 the'ptoject to them. During this procegs, we alga determine whether Wa'te going to allow them ta proceed 0h th? decumehts or wait until the 832 documents were iSSued; 1h ar?er t0 give more accurate-pricihg-ahd.a datetmihatieh was made that we were geihg to wait until the 332 documents were issued.t? the competing members to make sure that wag geihg ta give us their best pricing based on what-they saw as the ttu?.SCOpe of the project, and that?a?what.we dtcided ta d0 and that?s one 0f the amendmaht? that we isgued tQ the solicitatimn. DR. PETZEL: SO, Kiewit'Tutnet WOUld.be.thh the design and the Gehgttuction Gansartium? MR4 POGANY: N0. PETZEL: Just the MR. POGANY: We h?ve a separate architect thatig-dhihg the design. DR. PETZEL: Okay. MR. PGGANY: In this saga, thih 13.3 d??ig? mw-ihtagrated dtsign and construct. $0 what they're ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS Duke Streat, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phona ?703) Fax AF2272.0160 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353185 USVAeg?lzf??fl? 361 doing in; they?re looking at the af?niteet?e deeign and they?re deing kind of a a different perspective than an arehitect; PETZEL: I?ve get it. MR4 POGANY: lacking at it from a Conettuetability Standpeint as to what.things are in the design that could be redesignedfbetter t0 meke it mere-efficient fer them to deeign. DR. PETZEL: And that?s-Kiewit Of Gmaha; Turner of Chicago? MR, PGGANY: Yes. Se, this is a joint venture that they put tngether fer our epeeifie project. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: ThiS is something new? Unusual, different? MR. NEARY Yes, It ie more.akin te_whatte an called ennetruetion management, at risky in the private Sector. We were net the first in government tn use it. The Corps; of Engineers and the Naval Faeilitiee Engineering Command had Need it, and GSA, and we adopted it for thin project and fer'New ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone {703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272.0161 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353186 E62 ereens. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: We did a risk amalysis ef-never having done it before, doing it the'first time? 'We looked at what risks were involved? MR4 NEARY: We talked to all the other= agencies, went threugh the processes-that they'd gene through-t0 select the firms, brought in a eeuple of se?sultants whe had previously been in-theSe types One in particular had worked with_the Corpsi sf Engineers and retired ts Werk fer us, to help us formulate the strategy that.we would 11556.- SECRETARY SHINSEKE: And hew did it turn Out? MR4 MERRY: Well m" SECRETARY SHENSEKI: It was NEARLY: it's 1101; at all risk?Time; and in my own View unless we figu?e out some other wayS-te implement this in conjunctien with the federal acquisitien regulatien, we need to be Very Cautiousi We mm ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?l80 Fax AF2272.0162 DerivermPhese2mGroup2m0353187 Ugvaeg?lzf??fl? E63 SECRETARY SHINSEKI: This is'What I?m getting at. We did risk analysis. 'Whatever that was, there was a set at mitigation optiehsi we decided to go ahead, and then we find out that in tasty the risk was there Clear and bigger mm I?m trying te figure out why we couldn?t have seen it before we made the decision. NEARY: I think we @Iebably saw fisher but we.aiso saw that the merits of this type of ptheuremeht, the advantages of hrihgihg a menstruetioh Gentractor on early and having them engaged.with.thea architect in doing the nu SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Who is the."WE? here? MR, NEARY: We in terms-Of um SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Semebedy had t0 make a decision here that said,r okay. Here?s the-risk, you khsw, we?ve done the research, hete*s the risk, here are the-OppertUhities to mitigate; and we?re going-to gm ferward and dc it. I?m juat trying to figure Gut hew all this comes about. This is hat a teyai We did eat all decide to do thish Somebhdy decided to ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272.0163 DerivermPhase2mGroup2m0353188 USvneg?lzf??fl? :64 do this. Where wee it? NEARY: In CFM, the decision was.made in canjunetion with advice from geneiei counsel, but To?d Grndeff was here at the time and his denieien,.my eupperting him, and othere mm late at eneenregement from aernse government tn in this direction. chere were using it, felt they were having I think we're going to have but I think we?re ?eeing Chaliengee that we-wouidn?t face in a traditional contract. We?re under nenetruetinn new in Denver. We would not be under in a traditienel procurement. So, we have'the challenges Of the ?ncertainty about price which we are Werking through right newt MR4 MILSTEN: One of the thinge we?re talking about i8 a lot of the risks frem a negative side? think we ales need t0 leak at those positive -The positive side of this ief we-eheuld aveid enme nf'tioee contracterwidentified iesuee with enr deeignibefOIe we?re actually building. The ptebleme that we had in erando, some of them enoule be ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272.0164 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353189 E65 mitigated by this process. We shouldn?t have as many roefihg issues where we have a bust in the reefihg beeause We have the contractor oh early. Before heis building things, doing a construetahility revie?'and eeyihg, this won't werki SQ, hefere we put eteei in the ground and before we erder materials, the Contractor advises us and says these are the serts Qt thihge_that aren't geing to that We if_yeu Change this a little bit, this detail a little.bit, it makes it better, easier, and I can give it to yeu lese expeheiveiy. Se, there'e a huge upside to thie procese? SECRETARY SHINSEKE: SQ that?s What We Sheuld ha*e gotten, and ?u MR4 EILSTEN: That?s what.we*re still shooting fort We?re getting some of that. MR. POGANY: Weire going to.get it} okay? MR. KYRGOS: And e130, the risk up front reeiiy e? the VA hae a eheiee? First, he hired'this eehtraeter as a eonetruetieh managet hot ae:a gentractm:w He i8 getting involved during design, ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272.0165 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353190 USUAeg?izf??fl? :66 will get hie feedback, his input. ence the design is finished; then the point that he feels he is ready tc give us-ah estimate 30 we can exercise the Optiehg do we went to preceed new with thie contractor t0 d0 the deeigh, to do the cchetructieh, er net? We benefit, 30 there is a firm, fixed price for the construction during the design as cehstructich-mahaget when the VA i8 then, we exercise the optien.~m we-get ah estimate-from him, we see setting a-target price. 'We are in line with this, we make a ?eciSian iet?e proceed with thie to reach.e firm, fixed price eventually as the ccnetructihh he as we're 'mOVihg on, 50 he starte t0 then order matetiels, getting the sube in line, and like we are deihg tight new in Denver? 80, it?e hot like the risk-is on the VA to cover the risk from Day 1. In benefit, a lot hating the deeigh by having gained their input during the design process with the optieh tc exercise the: they'delayed a day when the contract is headym etherwiee, in Denver we could say right now we?re ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272.0166 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m035319?1 167 geing'out to bid the prejeet. Ne terminatian, no preblem at all? We exerciee a different avenue? Thatie the way the contract was comatructed. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: So; this Sheuld'be all be?efit to VA. In fact, are we geing to-realize this? MR. MILSTEN: We are realizing it; "We are un?er constructien right newi SECRETARY SHINSEKI: at; right, fair e?eugh, ME. POGANY: Gkay, this next.elide kind 0f in time when stuff that we.already talked about as the design de?elopment phage; probleme that-we had in the censtruction document phaSe, consolidatien one Of the things that trenspired wee the Start oi the censtruetien deeuments were based on reconciling the cost of the censtruction a?d the eenetruction contractor'e estimate and the architect?e eetimate at the end of i? arder for theHLte proceed into the actual eemetruetion decumentg. We need te make Sure that both parties w?re Saying that the price of the_prajeat-was the Same, in order to be sure that what the-architect ANDERSON CQURT REPORTING 706 Duke Street, Suite. 108 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (7533} 519-"7130 Fax, AF2272.0167 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353192 E68 could be built for the amount of money that we had; 80, that was one of the things that we.ueeded to ?e in order t0 with the constructiOh documents. We already talked ebout.the delays in the Construction doeumente, about the IDQ RES and the delaye-in hiring the design assist. This sti?e just tells ue what-eurreurreet Scope ef-work that we have put into the preeidential budget for the projeet4 We?re building a replacement tertiary care medical complex with let Cf the things that are met in normal heepitals and. things thet are even specialized withih'the VA, gush e5 the-epiuel eerd injury center; We den?t heve those in but a handful of locatiene. MR. GGULD: And ell the items lieted here are frem_the total funds authorized. There?e_ne rm MR. POGANY: Correct. MR: GOULD: mm augmentatieu Of that'threugh renewable energy projeete and so ferth-that Mere added in? Tt*e all under that mu ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272.0168 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353193 :69 MR. POGANY: The regiahal energy initiative was incorporated into the preject a3_patt of the in MR. GOULD: As part of the desigh feathte MR. YES. MR. GOULD: Okay, thank.y?u. MR. POGANY: The Only portion of thig mark that.i3-het incorperated into this wa? the physiaal security t?quiremehts, which is all the perimetat protectihh atomnd the Site. It was. in thiS caSe, fuh?ed-from a different Source in the $BUG-milli0h. MR. GGULD: it. And what was that w? frem Nth? MR. POGANY: NO. that Was a sepatate apprapriatich. majet money. but it-just wa?h?t tied to the $808 miliiah that was agprepriated for the project. It was an additihhal $9.5-million. MR. NEARY: Did we have.asbegtos maney? MR. POGANY: We have aghastas mcney?0h the. prajeat. MR. NEARY: On a appropriation, there are line items far each project ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Streat, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phona ?703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272.0169 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353194 usvheg?izj??fi? 370 and theh there are Some line items aeseeiated with general areas of werk, such as asbeetee removal, the ghyeieal Security that Tim is talkihg abeurt advancea plahhing. In the ease of ashestee and.phyeicel security; the eeheept is that it's difficult te get a handle-en exactly haw much yeu heed fer.e project when yeu'heVeh?t gotten into design yet} in Same easesd Se, Ghee-asbeetes w~ if there?s aSbeStOS required to be-removed and you identify the caste Of that; yam ?an Supplement the prejeet by taking mehey frem the eebeetee-fuhd. The same way with phyeieal security? Since after 9/11 when we identitied these types Of work thet we're geihg to have to start doing, it was uncertain how much that would-taTe and it would vary with different kihde of johe? So, we?ve put 5 percent we.set up'a separate fund, physical security fund, and-up to 5 percent Of the east of a jab can he used frem that phyeiqai fund on the prejeet itself. But ether thah that? all the stuff here i5 part'ef the $830 millieh. ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272.0170 DerivermPhese2mGroup2m0353195 USVAeg?lzf?ifla 171 MR. GOULD: Okay, thank you. FOGANY: Shay, geing on.te design} 2312 April, peer revieW'wae complete ah? identifies deficiencies in the documents. Essentially, things that they identified were that the architectural drawings were not at the 95 percent stage that.they?te be. They were more at the 85 percent stage! There were I think they Gennted up 403 detaile that were missing from the doeumente that were submitted, en yen leek at the eheete ef deeumente, it says to refer te a Specific detail. Well; they counted them all up and all the details that they re?er to added up to 400 that Were mieeing item the document, so thet?e one of the thinge Out peer.review was catchingl On our Specific project it was (inaudible) and Lee Daily and they are deing a very gene jab ef all the deficiencies that they are noting in the'arehitect?s designi Mostly, it was in the atehiteeturalutype paekagee. Some ef'them'wete heeanee the design was not completed tn the etetee AN DE COURT RE PURT 1 NS 706 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, Phene {703) 519w?180 Fax AF2272.0171 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353196 372 that we would normally expect it to be they were waiting from the input from the designers of the for the curtain waii.eed the premeaet type systems on the exterior of the building; Se, some of those that the peer reviewer theught was lacking-wee eimest on purpose because they don?t want t0 deeig? Semething and then have to rendeeign it ence they-get the input from the design sUbCOhtractorfr Se they-made a conscious decision to hold off en specific details until they can get the input from that epeeifie.deeign aseiet subcontractor once they were erught on beard. SECRETARY SHINSEKE: What was t?e expectation? What did we expect? MBA POGANY: We expected full 95 percent Construction documents "m SECRETARY SHINSEKI: 95.pe:cent construetion MR. POGANY: And that?e what our_peer reviewer-is looking at. Howeverr they weref I geese When they started looking at it they were ioeking at ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272.0172 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353197 173 it.1ihe were geihg te be put amt oh the Street to be bid as hard bid, ahd they didn?t realize that we had the eehsttuetieh eenttactor oh boara aireaay' leaking at stuff and they were werkihg with the architect te reeolve the missing in the deaigh preheeat SO, this is different than what we weuid normally d0. Like what Qtlahde did,'whete they did the peer reviewe and it wee Oh documehta that were geihg out on the Street for bid. Well, these are deeumehte that are already being reviewed and.aiee critiqued by the conettuetieh Gehttaeter'and he*e saying? based Oh what I?m Seeing I CathUild'yeut preject for you based Oh the detaile-that E?m Seeing, and [*m'happy with the level of detail.that I get these are the details that me and you as a cohettuetieh contractor and the deeigher heed ta weft eat ehce I get specific Subcontractors oh.beatd. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Sa-yeu?Ve get that eemmitmeht en 85 percent ieeigh? MR. POGANY: Yea. ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272.0173 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353198 174 SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Pram the CantractOf; He said that was geod enought MR. POGANY: That?g what they'hav? Said} In their design reviaw procesa, that?3 what they?re aaying. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: And-what's the rigk here? PGGANY: The risk is_more if yQuidQ 100 parcent.design and you and it?s congtructien, and_then they change it it?s a cha?ga tO the canstructien contrac . If they out the remaining 5 er'lepercent of the details :0 get it to ?he 10$ perC?nt decumenta during this timeirame, Whidh is What they?re doing, then the 100 percent-demumentg reflect Exactly'what the censtruction centraCter wants to build. it Should reduce the number-0f REES and it should heLp Streamline the Submittal far same Gf-these thingg that are marmally-deaigned.by the aatual_curtain wall System contractar or} in this the subacntractor aS-well. SLCRETARY SHINSEKI: SQ, our timeline of ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Streat, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phona ?703) Fax AF2272.0174 Denve{mPhese2HKEDup2m0353199 175 April 2912 we expected 95 percent deeign eenetruetien deeuments? 'nen are we going to hit 95 percent we when do We hit 190 percent? POGANY: They?re werhing 0n the @5 percent new with the input from the design subeentraetere, and then the 100 percent is geing te be in.Aeguet of 2012. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: lQQ'pereent'in Auguet. MR4 FGGANY: Yes. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Sometime between new and then we hit 95 percent. WhetiS the that we make at 95 percent? POGANY: We den?t reelly have'te make decision at 95 because it is the eubmiesien that they?ve already submitted. 30, itte the review they have the comments, they just needgte inCOIperete the eemments inte the 100 percent deeign. Really, it?e.juet the 190 percent designi SECRETARY SHINSEKI: (Iheudiblei here en. this? ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272.0175 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m03532GO 376 MS. ROFF: In terme of the 100 pereent design; there will only be Changes if there is the eaee.that wuuid impact our operatiohe, and.that woui? impeet'the deeign. And Tim will talk a iittle?bi? abeut the censtr etion documente, ebeut the VE. We believe-we will not be impact by the VE, the value engineering. We?re hcpingi Which he?s got right thered MR. POGANY: Okay, so in.Mey cost on the cost have been campietedg Right.new the eetimeted cost between our chiteet and our 0 estruction contractor, there?e ebeut a $100 'millie? gap, which Seems very large. A large paft'?f thet is due to indirect ceete ?rem Our constructien contracter. ?ne of the things we?re deing isJr we?re looking at once we get our firm fixed price, is doing a DEC audit to verify whet their actual indireet Cpete are. They also have inflated bath their unit ?eet en? their labor rates to, Elm going ta Say, drive up their price as part 0f a negotiatien teal. .Ahd glee} $0 tha?'it their overall pet of indirect ceet. ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272.0176 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m03532G?1 377 We are loeking at ways on eur ehe.te help reduce eeme of the gap and we?re looking at abeut $50 milliOR Worth of direct value engineering items that hopefully will not effect patient care in any way, ehepe, er term. The ones that we think may effect patient care we need buyuih frem-the medical center, in Cage-we go from a type Qf material for leQI finiehl let's say, that is very expensive but very durable and over the lifetime of the building is pechably'mere eoetmeffe2tive thee jue? deihg Strict; SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Whe is making the Gall eh hoe.to deal with the $103 millieh gap? MR. POGANY: That is my entire team. Between myself, the eentractihg effieer of the medical they have people on board on all the VE teek- ?erce meetihge that we have worked en te identify the thinge that we need to do to look at :0 reduce the We?ve identified, we*ve accepted over jmillieh worth of VE iteme to date, and there?s $Yl Imiilieh that we?ve identified thit We Still need to leek at-e little bit Closer. They?re potehtiel items ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272.0177 DerivermPhase2mGroup2m03532G2 1?8 that We think we can incorporate with Very little effort,-and not affect patient cared And then there?e another $30 million that we have'nOt made en at'thie point in time? M84 ROFF: Anything other than patient eare that we-wonld need with; for instance{ if they Change the finish on semething we weuld have to evaluate that in tetm8_et the ability to Clean it, to maintain it, to operate it. But you know, some of the things that they?re talking aheut have to de with replacing maybe galvanized.pipe with PVC, Things that probably would not impaet He that greatlya Se, I believe theyTEe geing after those items firet. SECRELARY SHINSEKI: AS I recall, there wae same-finiehing in the parking garage, fer examplel Quality ef the finish would affect the amount ef1mhney you had-to spend on it. MR. POGANY: Cerreet. And then, the Same thin' With the r-ueaat. The wai the eiemcaet ie . designed tight new, the design Subcontractor ANDERSCN COURT REPORTING 706 Duke Street, Suite 1050. Alexandria, VA 2231-4 Phene {703) Fax HOS). AF2272.0178 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353293 379 has made-a tecammendation that says, hay? if yam take it ?30m this and yen make some minor mcditicatians t0 youri?esign documents, I can fabricat? it quiCkery I can deliver it to yaur Sit? easier has use I don't have a.bunch 0f bracing on the back side of it if yam lat me design it the way I think it Should be designed becauae I can fabricate it faster, I can transpert it easier, and I can direct it onto year Site-quicker. 80 Some 0f the stuff that we?re iaoki?g-at th&t?s gaing to out the cast actually ig going to benefit us. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: You have the reSpO?gibility of Claaing thig g?pw MR. POGANY: Yesi SECRETARY SHINSEKI: And medical-center M34 ROFF: Approves "m SECRETARY SHINSEKI: appreves it. MR. POGANY: They approved the Stuff that is either-going to affect aesthetics or patient Gate at things that may ultimately coat them aperating SLCRETARY SHINSEKI: What happens if you get ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Streat, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phona ?703) Fax AF2272.0179 180 to $30 million or $15 millioh and you Can't {i lose?' What happens then? MR. We?re going toiolOSQ, and then we?ll come back to you and you?ll havs to.make a decision-on do you want to buy back some things? Ans what we?re shooting for right now is,'weFve got a topline budget cost of $610 million, That's we?ve inked with the contractor, and ve're-working to get that down to $610. And if there*s patient care affsotsd.ws'll bring that back to_you and ask for your decision on what do you want to buy back based on what we oaniafford? DR. PETZEL: At that stage, the.snly hi is the decision that the secretary is being presented with.a marginal buy back? Everything else is set at the 610 figure and it?s go/no go for the other things? I think with the program management office that we?ve-set up we can ;mske those decisions as loog as it?s not affsotiog patio?t oars and some to an equitable rosolutiom-oh that; Don't you? I think it?s if we have to into AN DE RS COURT RE PERT 1 NS 706 Duke Streot, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phono {703) 519w?180 Fax AF2272.0180 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353295 the'patient baak t0 yau SECRETARY Spac% above MR4 SECRETARY care iasue, 610? $81 that we wouldih??d to came far these decisierg. SHINSEKI: 30 what?s the.trada Or is that cloae? $25" tQ S33.millian. SHINSEKI: And-does the contractor know that 0r net know that? He dOeSf?Ot? SECRETARY SHINSEKI: SQ thatfa ClOSed'hald; MR. That?s clesed h?ldw SECRETARY SHINSEKI: MR. Katmai 5 percent constructien centingEhcy on top th?t pot Of moneyi POGANY: Okay. That Still uS with our cf So we're net t&pping into-what-we would.n?rmally reserve for our constructien Genti?gencieg on a project MR. MBA in all the meetinga 5 percen?? the tapline price. Ph 0 POGANY: Yea. But it is glear with the centrac?dr that-610 is ANDERSQN COURT REPQRTENS HQ ?06 Duke Streat, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 (703; Fax AF2272.0181 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m03532GS USvnegoizf??fl? 382 SECRETARY SHINSEKI: okayl Goody all right. POGANY: Shay, this essentially pretty much on this Specific project all'the delays to the project from when we originally Said we were going to be complete in February'in?20l2 and open for business. We had four months of suspension of worh.during the DCAA audit process of the architect, and the DD development stage. It Started an a work slowdown, wert to about a sixwweek work stoppage while the DCAA.eudit was complete, and then they'had to-ramp up their aotivitiee and they eaid thet equated m" SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Tell me again What the DCAA audit 7&5? POGANY: Defense Contracting Auditing Agenoyl They are required for, I would Say, a procurement of thie magnitude. They were.required to have a DEAR audit. Normally, the'prooese takee two to three months, this one took nine they had been we I em going to say, Chastieed by QMB for their auditing process no they really ratcheted down on their auditing of the architect. The architect was ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?i80 Fax AF2272.0182 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m03532G7 133 fighting back in lets 9f a8 to the infarmatien hhat they needed t0 previde, and they trickled it out aS-hppoeed t0 giving it he them all.ah once like they 'probably should have? So, they were partly responsible fer drawing out the 0f the.audit SHINSEKI: I deer: knew if yen eware of this -m I was met "m-but this-wag playing out, And so when the audit geeS onf while the audit is underway we have to stop? MR. Weli, think we did eeme Spretty Greative thinge, did we not? TO try to keep 'this thing moving fer a period of time? Mh? POGANY: Thie is en the architect deeigh contract, and Originally we had them working under Change Orders. We go to a point-Where the Change .erder wag too large for us to be able because it was putting us at too much risk didn?t know what the audited overhead rates were 'ultimately going he be, 30 we theugh it'Wehld he mu we. were'getting eloee to the end of theauditw hike I RUDE COURT REPORTING 706 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703} 519n7180 Fax 519w?190 AF2272.0183 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353298 :84 Saidi-eur architects purpoeely went into a and mode and then ramp back up, which.they probably'did need to dc if they wculd have just worked with us for the of an additional month or two and it weuld have been dame. They weuid have get their $20 miliien contract awarded to them. But they like I saidr they were kind.ef net being fertbceming in game of the that?they needed to provide to the auditored SECRETARY SHINSEKI: They.being? MR, PGGANY: The architect firms. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: How do'we preclude thie from happening agein? What did we learn Gut Of thie? POGANY: Go ahead; Chrie? MR4 KYRGOS: It is One at the risks of getting involved here. In thie the architect wanted to move et a reimbureable besiei Juet.pey me, let me finish the design, give me mere ehange'crders, finish the design, and then what the-?eet is. We want to prevent thie. We weht tc.make sure that the cverhead is (inaudible) ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272.0184 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353299 USVAeg?lzf??fl? :85 because it?e very impertant what the-evethead 15. :3 it 150 er 200? It?s a big difference in Goat. So, he was playing with-thiagattit?de and-we went up to a point and said} it?s toe much, tee much riak here. And at timeaf we don?t face this normally but it*s a risk taat we?re taking and by default, we?re suppcsed to have an audit befere we make an award of the next phase? It?s net a-elear answerl SECRETARY SHINSEKI: IS-it Suetomary to Step. wetk'while the audit is underway? MR, Well, it'a'a.eombination of thinga'here. But him, he wanted t0 ?t it was a Choice that he had madevery difficult positien because he weuld gay ?n SECRETARY SHINSEKI: "He" wOuld be the architect? MR, KYRGOS: The architect, yes. and new.we are talking about an architect is not one firm. It'a a Cembinatien of three firms, four firms tegether, and there are different parts of the ccumtry, different consultants, and the Geoperation with the auditors has ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272.0185 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353210 186 been very poor and been dragging. .And it WEB, yes: to the benefit to the architect fer the We to write change_erders and with the aesign, e?d at rhe end he'would knew how much he Spent. We would-be at dieedventege when we had too much risk en thie. We are talking about millions of dollars in designi NEARY: Nermelly, we weuld not award a Ge?tract m" we would not allew them tQ Start until it had the required audit? And we?re required to have an-eudit, and we were required by the'VR regulation te either use DEAR or the VAIG, and in meet Cf the recent history we?ve used the VAIG Staffed to de theti And then DCAA, ee Tim said; wee under Severe criticism as reeult Of GAG that Challenged their auditing quality? They bed a Change in leaderehip at DCAA as a result Of?it, They really tightened down their Stan?erds, they reek a lot longer to do the work, and ene of the things they?ve dene ie tried not to engege in.auditing fer anything less than $19 miliien. So, that hit us an this project and-eninahy ANDERSQN COURT REPDRTENS 706 Duke Street, Suite 100. Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone {703) 519m?180 Fax 519e?19Q AF2272.0186 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m035321 ?1 l8? ethers at critical times. We*ve new engaged mm We?re using DEAR. We?ve engaged VAIG and'they?re doing some Of our werk, and we*re also exploring the ability to get a change in the VAR that weuld allow us te'uee-a Big 8 aceeunting firm under contract te us te audit ee well, so.that we'd always have some better'oppertunity tQ get timely audit work done. PGGANY: The Other thing to note an this one is, this one was required because it.was going tram the schematic design, which was one-optien in their eentraet, to the Option fer the design development and construction develepment phase, Whieh was abeut $20.5 million awerd t0 them. SQ: based en the amount at money we had to do another'DCAA audit on that pecifi Optien before we exercise that 0 Optionone phase SECRETARY SHINSEKI: So.whet een.we dQ t0 prevent this from happening again? It Gest you 14 jmenthe'ef dead time. MR. PQGANY: We have more.evenuee te-get audits-done. That?s it? ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272.0187 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353212 :88 MILSTEN: ?ne of the other thing? I think Waite looking at, toe, 13 mat doing Change to keep the AE inter?sted in getting through the audit* Once we get a Cigar path with Starting-the precess u" SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Chang? orders? MILSTEN: We d0. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: i5 the MR. NEARY: The contractimg-foiCETP SECRETARY SHINSEKI: 50 what do we d0, take away pang here? MR. POGANY: I wag going t6 say, the cher thing te do i5 premnegotiate all the diiferent-thians in the Centract up from getting it auditEd-?~ they?re alre&dy prempriced 80 when you.get to that point where yam need to exercise it, you already knaw what_the price of it i5. In this juSt ExerQiSQ-the option for schematic design, they tamplete-the Schematic deaigm but the procesg f?r'thgm to.give us a propoaalP us to negotiate'it, and have ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Streat, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phona ?703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272.0188 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353213 189 the DCAA audit t0 get them to g0 to the next phage teak may longer than anybody would have anticipated and was-way more than we SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Let's catch all Of thiSa There's eeme learning hete? POGANY: And_then that one of the-things that the etehiteet neede.tc dc is give us_a Schedule a3 to the development hf their design development, and their construction documents, Ghee the-medical center reviewed the emeunt of user meetings and the emeunt of input that the medical center'WOnld be able to have on the-actual ?eeign of the prejeet, they didn?t think thete has enengh tonnes nset-gteup meetings, 50 that they would be able te H) get'whet they really needed out of the'ptejecta SO, we.had an additional round of meet group meetinge, which added about Zul/Z months t0 the duratiqn.of the deeign-ef the prejec . In EGll, this is the in etdet te reach a firm target priee "u hot a firm fixed price, a firm target price. It teek about three AN DE RSGN COURT RE PERT 1 NS 706 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone {703) 519w?180 Fax AF2272.0189 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353214 :90 additiehai months beyond what we had-anticipated m" SECRETARY SHINSEKI: What?s the difference here hetWeen firm target and firm fiXed? POGANY: Firm fixed.iS-what we hermally weuld want te have hecauee that i5 hermel Construction award where you*re at a firm fixed price fer the project. Right now we?re e: a firm tergeh priee,_whieh is different. We have ah agreemeht in principle as to what the price of the project would be, but they don?t have the 190' menstruation documehte they can't give us a firm fixed price; 30 CD the that wee a preeuetien point and we were negatietihg them down abeut $70 millieh in erder fer us to reach a firm target price that says We eeh move-forward with this project with yen, Kiewit Turneri SECRETARY SHINSEKI: SQ, lUO_perGent eempLetiOh, 100 percent design here an the eehstruction doeumehte i3 definitiehal here betweeh firm?fixed and firm target. ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272.0190 Denve{mPhase2m??oup2m03532i5 391 MR. POGRNY: Yea. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: And we weuid prefer t0 get to the firm fixed price? POGANY: The firm fixed is what we are normally ueed to sperating under we know exaetly-whet the east of the project is, minus any Changee-that happen after the 109 percent deeumente. SECRETARY SRINSERI: efriqiEntiy'gatting- t0 the 100 percent deeign i3 key here? MR4 Yes, getping'te the 130 peree?t deeign and getting to the firm fixed price.ie the key fer this-entire process. SECRETARY SHINSEKE: Tell me again we?re geing ta be at 130 percent? MBA POGANY: 190 percent deeume?t should be Auguet of 2012. SECRETARY SEIRSERI: Shouldee? MR. POGANY: Will be. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: ekay. MR. We?ve g?t thie mapped.aut, so baeed on criteria that we?ve sat through for the ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, UR 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272.0191 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353216 :92 last meeting is the mileetenee and the datee ?het everybody ie tracking to ensure that we meet these mileetones and dates am that we den?t have any elippage to the right en the subsequent that have to be tackled with the 133 percent being the feundatien ef meving forward to get a firm fixed price. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: And who ewes the to get to 100 percent construetien deeign? Yen MR, PGGANY: I wee going to say, thet?e the Whele l?tegreted project delivery team; So, gee! SECRETARY SHINSEKI: You?re-going to have someone "m MR. POGANY: That's pretty mueh.mel SECRETARY SHINSEKI: You've get t0 have_en umbrella mm somebody with an umbrella leading the parade; right? MR. POGANY: I?m holdi?g the Umbrella and my' support is behind me. ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272.0192 Denve rmF?hase2mG roup2m0?3532 i 7 USVAeg?izf??fl? :93 SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Yen guys ie'the beekgreund. Okay, ceme August we're-geing'te have a diesussion, right? We hepe'not, beeause?they'll be. .de-ne . SECRETARY SHINSEKI: 100 percent, er-yeu can explain-why you?re not there. PGGANY: The other eart at this entire negotiation process was the constructiee.centtacter was saying he needed amount of time tO buiie.us eur projectw We theught it should be dens in He'erigieelly came with a proposal ts build it in 50 We said that was Outrageous and We needed'eut hesltheere facility delivered prior te thatd We finally negotiated a 40.4 month duration fer the entire construction of the project, se-right new~we?re under a firm target price of 604 withia'ceiling of.610 and 1,228 days to build the entire eempusi And that?s what We?re werking with? This-is just the majer milestones at the different phasesw Phase 1 was the original demelitien prejeeti ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272.0193 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353218 :94 Phase 2 was everything with the integrated design eehetruet eehttaetet KiewitmTUthet. Phase-A.is the tehOVatiOh of the clinic building south. Phase is the effeite utility package. Phase is the-main and then Phase ie the eemmuhity living Center] We pulled that out because it wee tedeeiqned twice. SQ we?re on Our third design. We?re finally geihg where eur programmatic people'waht me te be with that-type of facility. And thie is just a recap hf the Costa that we?ve already talked abeut that we?ll have.abeut a millieh gap between what they were initially awarded at and what they?re currently eetimatihg it :c be-baaed'eh the 95 percent documentem The initial contract was on the deeigh and develepmeht documehte. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Can you define-the difference between award and notice te preceed? PQGANY: The award is when-yea actually Sign the-doeumeht? And usually ehee yen Sign the aeeument they have t0 get bending and Some Other financial information to he ih order for us te give ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272.0194 Denve rmF?hese2mG roup2m0?3532 i 9 195 them the netiee to proceedf to actually eeme ehto the Site to start. ECRETARY SHINSEKI: SO that?s'when the eemtraetor demenetretee his ability t0 execute the eentrect? MR. POGANY: Yee. SHINSEKI: Then yen give.?otice t0 'preCEed? MR. PGGANY: You have to get a certain me-the 3payment and performance bond is ueueliy the differenee between the award date emd whee we give them the ?etice ?e proceed because we can?t give them the Instiee.?~ MR. NEARY: They den?t have to demonstrate their.ability to de the job befere We pick themrrbut we give them time "m an the terme.of-the-bendingf-we give them time to actually execute a bending Cantreet -with the bending company. SHINSEKI: Okay. MR. PGGANY: erande had game key .0ure en procurement of RFIS. Essentially we have a EN DE R53qu COURT RE 706 Duke Street, Suite'lOO Alexandria, VA Q2314 Phone {703} 519w7180 Fax {?03i 51$??190 AF2272.0195 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353220 :96 17%day'tUrnarennd time. Gut centreet alleWs us.20 days? so we?re better than where we shenld he; hQWeVer, it?s not as good as What'we want t0.be. huring the partnering process we decided te streamline this en; feet track most of the RFIs te within five daye? We have actually written that inte?the architect?s period service centrect. Phase deme we had some Site C?nditiOnS. This was asbestos abatementi it was Gempleted. It was abent a to the Gentract. It didn?t have any impact and that was asbeetes-meneyl Clinic building senth remedel, this was mere um we ewerded them mm the centreet had 82 level design? They started constructien based en g?'percent deenments. We had changes between 95 end.lGG percent documents basically hf the -misinterpretetion by our e?chitest ef our cede requirements for a renevatee building versus e_new buileing. They had to Change the 95 to le? perCent documents to incorporate what our specificatien ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272.0196 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m035322?1 requirements were for a renovated buildiegg meeting GUI cede'requiremeetsi SO it added abeut $1 million te-the_total overall east of the project; but it doesn?t have any impact on the overall project-because we.did cempiete DGD fourth floor on time-even with design Changes that needed?te transpire. SECRETARY SHENSEKI: HOW d0 we preclu?e misunderetanding en the part of a ee?treet'r misreading something? I mean, how dQ-we preclude that from beceming a hiccup here? MR. MERRY: In this it became n? SECRETARY SHINSEKI: I mean, we picked the guy early to some on heard 30 we de?le here this celleboraticn and mark through this, end-then we end mg with a m" MR. POGANY: This wee mere picked up-by Qur deeign peer reviewer vereue the canetruetieti eentreeter the constructien contracter, they?re just looking at the drawings te See whether they Cam construct it. But the peer rewiewer pointed it out-that, hey, this is in vieletion'of the ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax 519e?ig? AF2272.0197 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353222 I98 requiremente ef what they require fee thie?type?ef'a building; if it?e So the deeign'thet they at 95 pereent.didn?t meet Gut requirementet Normally a eonettuetion contractOK would net be building eff of 95 percent decumente? Hewever, because we needed to get DOD into their space they bed an end date they-Ceuld-not change end we had a deeign timeftame that was right here; we teld the centtecter to start proceeding with the eenetruetiem en the 95 percent and them We Changed "m SECRETARY SHINSEKI: So the eel)" requirement because their lease ran Out Semeplaee else, needed ta -be in Space, drove MR. POGANY: Drove this entire preCessx SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Drove and it deesnrt figure in here exeept it had-en impact, right? We stopped doing whatever we sheuld have been doing in erder te BSD. Thatts_whet yeu?te telling me? COURT REPORTING 706 Duke Street, Suite.100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phene (703} Eex Sig-"7190 AF2272.0198 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353223 .199 MR. POGANY: That?s what I?m teliingiycug sir] SECRETARY SHINSEKI: And how_much time did'i? cast-us b?yond the aillian? MR. POGANY: It didn?t US any timeL SECRETARY SHINSEKI: But-we stappad doing ether things? MR. POGAN H: N04 SECRETARY SHINSE I: POGANY: This was one;portimn.of the work. We didn?t atmp any other portion What it did was it had changes to ?he'typa'?f equiPEE?t that they needed to pracure.far the building. It added maney the.pr?jectg but it didm?t really add any time we?e1able :0 get BSD-into their Space an time SQ that :hey were in their Space and activated by the time their leaae ran out, MR. NEARY: IS the $1 millian that wejpaid far thig, is that an additional requi??ment ar.is that aasociated with any delay in the camtraq?? ANDERSON COURT REPORTING 706 Duke Street, Suite: 10.0 Alexandria, 2231-4 Phone (703} 519m7180 Fax (703} 5194?190 AF2272.0199 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353224 -29@ MR. POGANY: N0, that?s Strict"? the additienal cast of what was Changed. WE'ug?ized'all the feeders in the building. We upsiZEd all the breakera in the building; It?s a lot we?re dealing with on the Specific wade-requirement for ~~'whether you could build it utilizing the existing building infrastructure versus.building it to mget our requirements "m MR. NEARY: 1 guess what I?m.saying i5 paid $1 million to get bettar quality w? MR. POGANY: Yes. MR. MERRY: In primarily the'elewtrical POGANY: It?? in electric&li Some of it was in the syatemgi There.were just-thingg that were not the way they.should have beeg. if they would have looked at this and Said, we need to.redesign MR. NEARY: Well, Should'they have gaught thig at the conclusian of DD 2? ANDERSON COURT REPORTING 706 Duke Street, Suite: 10.0 Alexandria, 2231-4 Phone (703} 519m7180 Fax 5194?190 AF2272-0200 AF2272.0200 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353225 20]. MR. They sheuld heVe, but at that point in time they knew the code wee geing th he MR. 0h, they were betting an the Comet MR. POGANY: However, they based-it 0n "n they were betting on a Change that they knew wee Geming_inte the w" SO they tech a-risk and it didnft WOfk eut. MR. POGANY: A change that they knew wee coming i?t? the design eedes that would.allow them t0 de'thie. SO they proceeded based en their kneredge thet the code wee being rewritten. -Hewevet, Our policy'eays you can?t implement that until it?s eetnelly-writteh into the code, SQ we had to have them ge.heet and redeeign it to what our cede requirement wee at-the time that we were doing the-awardm MR. GOULD: Even though_it might net new temply.with the code? ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272.0201 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353226 -292 MR. MERRY: Right now We?re e" the new-code weuld be a lesser standard. but if we-had-awatded and bille? it at the time the way the-?eeigniWGuld have met let go. MR. GOULE: Could we have-granted eureelvee a waiver on that issue? MR. NEARY: No, we don?t give waivers to net meet-Cede. MR. I don?t think that?e a very good idea. MR. GOULD: Ne, juet in that inetenee. YQQ?IE.building te a higher standard and-it cast-you an etha $1 millien and you knew the cede iS'geing te be-et-e lower standard. It?s a queetien. I mean mm MR. I understand. but I think at the-point in time the code is the code. I think the decision wee made that we abide.by the'cede. MR. POGAMY: I mean, our design Standarde and GUI we And if What happens if the leeser standards are.not ultimately ANDERSON COURT REPORTING 706 Duke Street, Suite 10.0 Alexandria, 2231-4 Phone (703} 519m7180 Fax 5194?190 AF2272-0202 AF2272.0202 DerivermPhase2mGroup2m0353227 eg3 adepted? We?ve got a facility that?e Substandard that we.mey not be abie t0 eccupyi MR. GGULD: ery. MR. PGGANY: Yeah, it was a risk? It wee a gamble. And it could have gene either-weyr-end thet?e whet eur?guye were saying. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Where was that de?ision made-where yeu?re eomebedy bee assumedjrisk here. I don?t.disagree with the decieion madei I?m just txyimg ?e figure eut how u" MR. POGANY: It was mere frem ear censulting suppert service-and Our peer rewiewer'that says, hey, if the code has not Changed, we?re not 100 percent Sure that it is geing t0 get changed. Just because they make a it?s not elweye 108 percent aseuzed-thet the code ie going ?e get rewritten. And Since it may be 85 percent Semetimee, but that 15 pe cent ie d0 yea wee: te_riek designing and building a building that is new deficient as seen a3 yeu open up the doom? Ahd that?s whe?'their thing was. If you?re designing it to ?he ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0203 AF2272.0203 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353228 2g4 Cutt??t Sade, you?d at leagt knaw that yau?re in compliance. MR. MILSTEN: Did we know'in the DD completion th? AR was taking that risk? MR. PGGANY: I?d have t0 g9 back and'laaki Okay, offsite utilities esaamtially'with all underground utility WOrk, especially on an Qid.Army campus where they have not mapped-Gut ail the existi?g utilities, we?re hitting things Left and right as we?re digging down the Street. Smithat?a kin?.?f typical, but it addg money. It dgeanit affect the overall'praject a3 a whale. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Ahd has me imp&Ct to PGGANY: There?S impact t0 cost, but thereis no impact to time. And then Some of the impapt to coat we have asbestGS?related iSSueg'with the affgite package and then thereis constructien Qantract COS: isSues asaociated with that packagew Right mam we?re thinking it?S in about the half AN DE RS COURT RE PERT 1 NS 706 Duke Streat, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phona {703) 519w?180 Fax AF2272-0204 AF2272.0204 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353229 egg ?4 million dollar range with half a dozeh changes in different site conditiehe. Okay, 2C ie the medical eehter campus as a whelem this is just gettihg percent construction documents completed. We?re using and. scheduling techniques ahd CPM te make sure that we eeh keep the project on time, wetting to packages te_keep the project mevihgd In other issues, we are werkimg.eh a centemiheted site. The has a bunch of asheetee- eehteihihg meterieie in it and in addition to that, the eeil i5 contaminated with asbeetee. So when we hit Specific things, we ha*e a management plan that We had te'develep and put in place in order t0 deel with any asbestos that we find on the site? and we have to teke-it to a certified dieposal Site as eppoeed te.e regular landfill. Right now we think we?re keeping the-project on track utilizing the CPM schedule. We think that based on eur analysis at the prejeet Schedule, the cehetruetieh eehtreeter hae aetually' eempleted the exeavatieh activities ahead of schedule ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0205 AF2272.0205 DerivermPhase2mGroup2m0353230 .206 so ith having an impact on the Ov?raii Schedule. I think we have abnut $?5Gf000 worth at asbestns meney that'ws need to pay for both the people managing the asbestos characterization and management plan, the sertified asbestes building inspectors, and then-the additinnai disposal of the asbestns material ans the remnvai. SECRETARY SHENSEKI: th certifies that this is cleaned up and asbestos free? POGANY: certified asbestos.buiiding SECRETARY SHINSEKI: And that?s a Gentract=we POGANY: That?s a censultant-that ws-have hired? Normally it?d be "m our architect hire a certified industrial hygienist to work with us :0 d0 asbestos abstement. They?ve dsne that on the buildings. Howeverz this is a site.conditisn which is different than a building. Sn they nan dn the buildings, but they can?t do sits sQ-Ws ha? tn ANDERSON COURT REPORTING 706 Duke Street, Suits 10.0 Alexandria, 2231-4 Phone (703} Fax (70.3.3? 519347190 AF2272-0206 AF2272.0206 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m035323?1 -29? hire Certified aebeetoe building inepeetere to meni?er. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: weii, Ifm'jUSt trying to be sure-we?re certified and we that we don?t get a stop; it needs te be inspected-by Semebody-elee and cleared. MR. POGANY: That?s what-this Whole Characterization and management pla? does this. It certifiee what have to fellew these-preceduree. That?e what the_plah The eebeetee inepeetore make sure that-we?re complying Wi?h Qur plan. Community living center. This is essentially where we redeeigned it twice. We?re in the third design because the CLC design guys Were in flux a3 we were-proceeding with the designi we have finally develeped a deeign that both the medicai_eenter and the.ueers like ae well as our chief consultants in Resentiaiiy it deesn?t have a delay to the everaii project because it needs te beieempiete by the ANDERSON COURT REPORTING 706 Duke Street, Suite 10.0 Alexandria, 2231-4 Phone (703} Fax (70.3.3? 519347190 AF2272-0207 AF2272.0207 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353232 .208 end-Of the project, but we did have tO'pey'fer redesign to the architect. This is more about riek. 'Essentially we-haVe our baseline schedule for the entire prejeet and it was approved on April ll. A risk.analyeie is due tram the cemetruetioh contractor based eh'thie schedule by June.28l2, and they have to update-their riek management plan on a quarterly baeie-betWeeh me and the construction contractor to make sure their sehedule is still realistic and they cam meet'their eompletien deteel The ether the entire teem ie deihg parteering mm thet?e the VA, the VA medieal center, Gonetruction WQIki?g for me, the Gonetruotion contracter, end the architect. We?re all participating and partnering to identify problems early and come-to early resolutions Qf issues before they escalate to the point where the lawyers need te get involvedl EECRETARY SHINSE l: How?s that marking? MS. RQFF: lt?S working; life beeh.a little contentious in the beginning, but-wetre eeming to ANDERSON COURT REPORTING 706 Duke Street, Suite 10.0 Alexandria, 2231-4 Phone (703} 519m7180 Fax (703} Elgellg? AF2272-0208 AF2272.0208 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353233 USVAeg?izf??fl? egg terms with each ether. I would sey'the biggest contention threngh the whole thing is the price? Ghee we-get eVer the price; then we?ll be in shepei MR. PGGANY: Again we meme tO'the variance. What we already telked.ebent is we need.te Came up-with prehahly $50 millinn'werth of direct savings in eeqts. Our construction eentrecte: has to come-up with same buyout frem their-enheentrantere as well as reduce their own indirect eestea The BSA audit is going t0 help me establieh the indirect and we need to redeeign, im?lement, and.eehieve a firm fixed price. And right new we?re projecting February'EDlB baeed on having the percent decumente in August. What they have to de-ie m? the censtruetien centractor, enee they have the 109 percent doeumente, they?re going te-take those deenments, put them out on the etxeet fer eQmpetitive bidding; put to the Subcontracter communityi And enee they get their pricing and have negatiatiOhe, ,e will be.ahle to determine a firm fixed_priee fer the project. Hopefully, it will he Seener than Februaryi ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0209 AF2272.0209 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353234 310 SECRETARY SHINSEKI: SO EVeh if We deliVer pereeht constructieh deeigh deeumehte in.August, itfeietill MR. MILSTEN: It?s still a delay. MR. PGGANY: Well, it?s not deleye It?s bee they have to take the desighi They have:te package it ihte different peekegee fer- differeht subcontractere. They give it out ta the Subeehtraetihg community. They get somPetitive bids fer the different construction pertiene of the week that are not already awarded. They need t0 leek at these, eVeluete them, get with US to make Sure thee the person that they?re as beet.Velue is eceepteble te us; And then we make recommendatiene-er make acceptance of award to that portien of the mark to the Subcontractors. QHCE they do that, we can help them determine what the firm fixed price shoul? be for the-projecti Thet?e going t0 help us determine Wh??l it?s.gQing ta be. What this ?ees iS'it reduces their riekf be: it doesn?t mu it kind Qf gives them 130 percent confidence in what the price ef the prejeet is ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0210 AF2272.0210 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353235 going te be. So eesentially it?s tranefetting'the riSk to a paint where they know what the eub?e price is gelng'to be. They don?t have any risk an their end ae'te what it?s going to be. Hepefully they can lower their price because they have lower risk. MR. MILSTEN: This is kind ef'?e it?s a transparent process :0 us because we see-what the general Contractet?e getting for the Subcontractors? pricesl We could theoretically, if the market is faverable, see a reduction from the SIG target is the eubeentreete come in lower than anticipatedr Se that?s part ef the riek and the trade eff there. But because'wefre using an all competitive ytceess fer him tQ'get-his subcontracte, we?re abetting mm well; net shorting.~~ but we?re ueing a different process than where we-don?t See how they build their that they?ve come to me with in a prepesell in thie See all of their breakdowns of the Subcontteet In a typical propoea_, they'We?ld negotiate with'theit favorite subs to a geod price or make them ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272.021 1 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353236 USVAeg?izf??fl? 312 feed-it in the Short window that we-give them for bidding a project and come back to he on a due date with a-ptiee that they then compete agaihSt the tetai package with all the other oomttaotore in the pool. So we should see some benefit from_knowihg that we have competitively awarded the euhoonttaete as opposed-to not knowing what?s going on.ih the tfaditiQ?ai proceesi That?s another part-of the that the contractor and the government share ih this EEC process. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: I?m trying to What the heat timelihe can be. I mean, we brought them 0n eariy'fcr benefits to net Essentially we?ve-cpenea the prooees up for a good Groae dialogue. he agreed at 85 percent deeiqn that he can do the ptojeotr We?re-going to hit 95 percent. We deiiver-iGO-pereeht in August, and it Still takes another six to Seven -mohthe-fot him to mitigate risk, and.he wants to take it te zero. I?m just trying to See what the time value-of money is to me. We have a project We waht to deliver here. ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0212 AF2272.0212 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353237 usm-Am-iz-msxm 2'13 MR. MILSTEN: The project constructien is engeing. We?re not Sitting waiting. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: okay; MR. PGGANY: During this time at all this-happening ie the cemetructie? ie whether-we some to agreement en the firm-tixed price Qt net. MR. MILSTEN: TO a poi?t. SECRETARY SHINSEKE: Fair eneugh. MR. Well. net like Belvoir where. they teak it te the very end oi the prejeet. MR. MILSTEN: Right. MR. POGANY: Qkay. These are same at the learned that we put down as we need t0 teexamine whether we want to implement new desige guides. And to ?ctive projects. one Of the-thinge we implemented onto ours which has kind at bitten ue wee we wanted the leteet and greeteet deeign of the eemmunity living center. We implemented them after the etehiteet had Started the eriginal Schematic desigHe-et SDI level utilizing Auto?e?. RIM is the ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?i80 Fax (iOEi AF2272-0213 AF2272.0213 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353238 usve-Aze-12-3051?16 2'14 Cemthy that makes :t algo.makes the'BlM preduet that they are utilizing. 'They were amenable to Converting to the however, we were still developing internally eut own BIM-desigh guidee to tell the erehiteete exactly whet we went out Of the BIM'medel? So some of the information that we requeet on our current projects we?re ptebably het geihg-to get eh.this project; But we?re gei?g t0 get? let?e Say} 85 to 90 percent of what we ultimately went Out of the RIM fer eur specific projeet; -And then in eur the changed between when we.etarted desighjahd when it was eempleted;_hewever, we made-e decision because we were SO far ihte the the deeigh end Seme of the paehegee were actually percent that we were met geihg to eehvert the subsequent peekegee to the current But I think an Some of the projecte, they mm Can you explain the.PGlelS? MR. PQGANY: PGl8~l5 iejtheferehitecte engineer-deeign guides for majer-COeete?etieh AN DE RSGN COURT RE PERT 1 NS 706 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone {703) 519w?180 Fax AF2272-0214 AF2272.0214 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353239 .215 "projeete. In this case it?e for our'full replacement medical center. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: I see-these a5 adtual tasks that yen all have. The lessen learned eut at this is when you came back and Say, we have reexamined implementatien of the new design guides and ear _preposel.ie that we do the following. Te me that?e the lessen learned? What you?re SerVing up ta me_is all the things we have to complete, which is You have to de thieg 'But if there?e ?m to- me, learned invelve Chengee.in behavior? There?e to learned unlese it ehengee behevier, right? I mean, if yen keep deing the same thing'ever egainj stumbling into processes that-we?ve dOne befere and didn?t work, that?s met a learned leseenl So what I?m looking for out of this truly.ere.leesene learned. A?d yen have to go threugh thie and Serve up a that seye, thie ie what we think the lessee learned was and here?e what we de to ehange the in the future. And that weuld then Sit here -ee a we?re going to implement. RUDE COURT REPORTING 706 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 223l4 Phone (703} 519n7180 Fax 519w?190 AF2272-0215 AF2272.0215 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m035324-O usvnegeizje?fl? 316 MR. See in out cage tnie is What we thought was the leesen that we learned from enr project that maybe we could utiliZe on other prejeete t0.net do the same thing that we did that became bloeke for net 50 the we-leerned is we-trien to implement things While we?re deing it and we found Out that ell it is muddy the Water and it extende ant your design timelinee at whatever. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: That ennld be learned, but reexamine implementatien. It get t0 the statement you juet made. A etetement Would_be, we.heve reexamined new design guides and We are eithet geing te do it or net going :0 de it; That?e the lesson learned. MS. RUFF: A leseon leatned would be, Once deeign development has been completee'de Chengee in the design box. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Okay? I mean, it?s a teehnieal point here, but enght te be trely ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?l80 Fax AF2272-0216 AF2272.0216 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m035324?1 .21? thihge that we put ih place that change the'ptevieue behavier so we don?t do it agaihd MR. POGANY: The is we heed.to decide early on what the actual delivery method is going t0 be for the preject, whether it ie.desigm huild,- esign biduhuild, at integrated design ahd construct. In our caee we originally had anticipated daihg this design bid?build, our traditiehal'meth?di Somewhere in the schematic phage we decided Weire geihg to convert this t0 integrated design-and construct. And it didn?t actually have any negative effecta, but we should make the deeisiOh early oh-ahd that'Way our architect and our Cemetructioh cantraatar in thiS caSe or wheever exa?tly they?re going to be fellewihg as Opposed t0 kihd-Of doing ?m MR. This is particularly true related te-the architect. A Chitectural firms like to be Gut there an their awn, doing their designing} and net_ we I?d gay-We?re a Sophisticated ewner. When yeufre an arehiteetural firm and you work in the private secterj ANDERSON COURT REPORTING 706 Duke Street, Suite 10.0 Alexandria, 2231-4 Phone (703} Fax (70.3.3? 519347190 AF2272-0217 AF2272.0217 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m035324-2 313 you?re prehably working with Somebody often Whe?s not a sophieticated owner. 30 the arehiteetural.tirm can kih?.of d0 what they want to do. Ih this Cage we?re bringing in a big construction centraetor whe this-business better than the architect, and we?re aekihg them to be there looking over the shoulder of the architect all the time. When we:hire architects, they knew in advance that we?re going t0 do this, net dacide.t0 do this after they?re O?anId and have thiS mindset that they?re going to be hut there eh their own if you will. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Se if yen have centraCths with that much capability; what is the deeigh architect really provide you if they leak experien?e, they deh?t have the big project experiehce or mm MERRY: The design arehitect_hae tQ do the design. The centractore don?t do deeign. But-the Qthradtor hrith tremendous knewledge 0f haw yam eerUte a design, what priming of materials ie. Sr wheh'the'arehitect wants to lay some particular ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0218 AF2272.0218 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m035324-3 -219 type-of flooring er waLl covering; the'eehtrecter eeh quickly tell them er tell he, that flee: weh?t held up er ii will held.up, but you?re paying a'let.more. Yen guye ?eeide. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Se hew de-we get :0 the criteria we want on the design arehiteet ether than after the fact we realize we have'eemebeey-we prebebly dieh?t went? And whet?e the geihgmih.?dsiti?? that determines who the optimum design architect i3? Whet?e-eur decieieh here? MR. NEARY: We evaluate erehiteete'lergely-en their'experienee "n the experience Of the firm and the eepetiehee oi the individual teem.membere that.they?re geihg to have on the project? What kind of work heve they dene? Whe have they done it for? What?s been their Success rate? SECRETARY SHINSEKI: SO how do we grade eureelves on selection of a design erehiteet fer the prejeete we?ve dehe? MR. MERRY: If we hedn?t.beeh talkieg ebOUt ?rlahdeg I?d say excellent because we-have a leng ANDERSON COURT REPORTING 706 Duke Street, Suite 10.0 Alexandria, 2231-4 Phone (703} Fax (70.3.3? 519347190 AF2272-0219 AF2272.0219 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m035324-4 228 hietery Qf very Succesefui architects wefking an QUE prejeets. MR. I think it goes baCk ?e the jpoint that we need to make these earlier am. And when-we bring the AB on, the AE-ie fully aware that we?re going to be putting a construe?ion team working alongside of them 50 it deesn?t Came as a surp?iee, which it did 24 menths later or something like-that? MR. POGANY: In this case; yeah} they?d already been werking on the project for probably 4 years with tie medical center um MR. Fear years, SD yeu get a let MR. POGANY: Yeu establish a reiatienship with-them and then you bring in a third party-and it?e like "w SO we need t0 clarify that up frent, that here?s what we?re going te'de- SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Okay; Well; that?s a lessen learned then. I can see thati COURT REPORTING 706 Duke Street, Suite.100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phene (703} 519m?180 Fax (T033 519 7190 AF2272-0220 AF2272.0220 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m035324-5 USVA?E?iz?a?fla 221 MEL PQGANY: Then to me this isms-,1be just? .me Speaking but um I think we negd t0 bring the "m it metre doing EEC, we naed to bring them-on earli&t i? th? detign pracess when they havesmat?'input'with the archit?ct btfare the key degign deciaieng have alr?ady been made that affect the wgy that the construction anttactcr can build something or lay-Gut the Site that it?s more effective for them_t0 be able to maneuver-0n the Site in order to build it effectively amd be able to reduce the camstructian timaline as oppmaed to samething the architect-tust designs un- SECRETARY SHINSEKI: agree with that? RUFF: YES, abSQlutely; SECRETARY SHINSEKI: I?m sorry, who spake up enline? Say again? Was that agreement-0t dissent? NEARY: I think that.wa$ an Qpen mic. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Okay. I mean, if there?s agreement an this, thia to be ?t this is not; we Will reexamine any further? We.aught t9 ca?tura this and say we?re going ta dQ-it. COURT REPORTING 706 Duke Street, Suite.100 Alexandria, VA 22314 thne (7 3} 519m?180 Fax (T033 519 7190 AF2272.0221 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m035324-6 322 MR. The problem ie that yen heVe to have deveioped some deeign to give eut t0 the eenttaetOte to give you a price. SO by the time iet?e Say you give a schematic Di design out t0 the eentteetete to price, even the time-you can cue the eenttaetere, Several months elapsed. So the architect ie-meving eieng by the time you select the centrecteri So we are deeiing with that, and we'ttied te find the beet-way-Outd It would he very nice t0 hire them on day'one, but we have to demonstrate eempetitien; These people whe are putting out millions ef deliere fer Commitments, they have to have it based on.a program and a design befere that? And that?s Where we?re dealing there. It?s very restrictivea We tried te make it work and that?s the ObsteCies and the challengee we?re facing there? SECRETARY SHINSEKI: time we went_n~ eh, I?m sertyi DR. PETZEL: 0h, I was ?eet geing'te say he but if the architect knewe from the begiheing that this is going to be a design build and yeukre going to ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0222 AF2272.0222 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m035324-7 Ugvaeg?lzf??fl? 323 be bringing a contractor on ae SOQD as-yeu can, that will at leaet ameliorate the hard feelinga and the-e" MS. RGFF: Exactly. MR. SIEGEL: The architectural pretessienal erganizatiene are Strongly in fave: ef EEC Construction because they feel it gives a'better preduet, they have no Genetructability experience, and their iesurance carriera make sure that they don?t get involved with constructability matteIE?-the liabilities they will net allow them te accept. Se the REA has been etromgly promoting IDC fer yeare,.ae hae the ADC and meet other erganiZatione. This 'methedelegy has been ueed extensively in the ptivate seeter and found to reduce constructien tine? reduce costsa and eliminate Change Orders. I mean, it has a lot going far iti When we started to implement it, we realized that the EAR regulations were a great impediment to deieg'thiea _And GSA and NAFAC and the Corps have also faced pteblemee So that?e one of the reasons we den?t.etart te get-there. ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0223 AF2272.0223 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m035324-8 USVAeg?lzf??fl? 324 Law As far e3 having semethihg ready fat the contradtors to bid 0h mm with heqotiete out exeuge-me. We have IDQQES to perform these Services; that?e'ho problem. But as indicated ih-thie ease, we hired the AB firm yeate before the project was reell? 1 ready to.start. We didh?t khew what the site wee at firstr and that?s not uncommon. In erendeI as you they deeighed the project for ?ne site and theh had to switch to another Site, The preblem is Somewhat the feet that in gevetnment, you?re Sometimes so ever eeutieue that we lot of the advantages. he'wee said before, there ate enermoue advantages for the QWhef fat this methodolegy in time, mehey, ahd preduct. But there are also dieadvahtagee because in a h0tmal.de igh bid? U1 build Scenario, which is the meet commeh One ih the induetry and has beeh for a lehg time} the_riek is -meinly on the contractor?s pert. Here, the tiek.ie Shared'hy the owner, the eehtraeter, ah? the arehiteet tthUgheut the project, It has created ih.meet a much better team, but there are risks, and ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0224 AF2272.0224 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m035324-9 325 we Shouldn?t think that we are eliminating riek When we use.itd There are risks. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: can we quantify'whet these risks are for we? SIEGEL: The rieke are that it may be more costly than we originally expected because in?the Situatiehe we?ve been having, we den?t-have the team tegether from the very, very'beginningl Whe? a team ie.tegether from the very, very beginning, they?re aware efje lot of these cost problems in advance "w den?t nee steel on thie prejeet, it doeeh?t make eehee in_thie locality; or concrete ie herd te Come inte thie'part ef the country because of the.deliVery prebleme; et cetere, et eetere; don?t use Vinyl, use rubber; et eetera? The contracters knew thiee The erehiteete do not know thiea And it will give-n5 a better product. It will most probably be sherter delivery time. But there are some-rieke.in ?eet. MR. PQGANY: And the other thing ie if we ge with our Standard deeign~bidbuildf we?d that we hire a menstruation firm er a CM agency firm ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0225 AF2272.0225 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353250 USUAegelzj??fle 326 to de the revieWe Since IDQ.peer reviewers den?t really do that very well. Another thing is hiring a thir?eparty eetimator te do the cost estimates as to relying en the arehitect?e deeigu estimates. And leet would be bringing an the agent early en in the-prejeet, which is new a requirement of the design guides that was met in ours; MR. SERGEL: But the problem-with that, though, if yen have em independent eetimater, you cannot'get the architect to redesign if it?e tee expeueiVe. If the arehitec says! I have mee my eetimete and it telle me I have met your seat geek, you can get him to redesign if it goee ever the coetw You eenft the other way. MR, NEARY: All right. we gen be beuter informed; MR. SIEGEL: Yes, if we have an in?ependent eetimater ouboard? ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272-0226 AF2272.0226 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m035325?1 MR. MERRY: This is later i?.the design where the architect inveeted in a mu-he is tequited.under contract te deliVet-a job'that can be constructed at a certain peiee? In'the-eaee of Denver, our atehiteet believed he had a pride around 5@?i '0Ut contractet res much higher than that. We get an independent estimate done that?s closer to the eentraetet? 30 under the the dESig?er ie required to redesign we any redesign to get it.within the_ptiee ie at his expense. So he has me ineentive to aeknewiedge that his eetimete may be 10ww PeeANt: Then I ene at the big 'things en Orlando was to eut.advieei I think we talked abeut this before, that 'we?re trying to improve the turnateund time te five deye and it?e being tracked in the quarterly partner meetings ee to what the performance i3 td meet the five days. And the ether thing was en ch-versue thiegeg'we need to have the integrated ptejeet Schedule brought enbeet . We?ve hired a fulletime EN DE R53qu COURT RE 706 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA Q2314 rhene {703} 519w7180 Fax 519w?190 AF2272-0227 AF2272.0227 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353252 323 sehedhler as we talked about earlier to work with the activation teame on these items. MS. RGFF: Okay. We?re-0n te.aetlvatiene. First I think I?d that right now we are 6?2 percent teware the completion at the overall prejeet. And if l'were te Start Off with a learned or a recommendation, I?d start by saying thet we need.te have-guidelines that really give what I-wonle Gall Semewhat of a quick beck for actiVatione that talks about'the whe, what, where, when, and Why. And we have not.really activated a major medical center einee I it wae Detroit. Before that I knew I wae in Florida fer Vest Palm Beach, 30 maize talking a teeg time age; And I believe there are many eimilaritiee that.we Can use, and that has net been a teens in the paete I knew that Phillip and Bath McClellan are working.on that new, and we will have input intQ the i believe that that is eemething that we do need fer all, whether it?s a eplaeement medinal eentet er just a major project that wQUld.helpm ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0228 AF2272.0228 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353253 -229 I?m going to talk a little bit about where we are'in activatione new, where we?re geing? We certainly are not at all mu have a complete plan in place} but we?re working on that. Ard'we knew.that'we will be opening the doete of the new-medical center 'eteber 2615. I?m not going to Say whether it?s geieg t0 be the let of October or the 30th we?ve giVen Ourselves at least a ngdey window fer_the activatiend Right now we believe that we-will receive the total beneficial in April 2015; however, there Will be pertiene of the buildinge that WE'Will be ghee to activate and when I Say activate, :imeen maybe equipmentf furniture, but certainly net running to Operatiene? Denver does net have the luery of being.eble to have twe operations running eimultaneeuely, and it?s not good.fer Patients? safety either'with a lab 7 milee away er-rediolegy milee away. It just doesn?t make 80 looking Out in the future, wefll try te get ee much of the training Huat?erueeu?iel?lgr ell-oi the ANDERSON COURT REPORTING 706 Duke Street, Suite 10.0 Alexandria, 2231-4 Phone (703} Fax (70.3.3? 519347190 AF2272-0229 AF2272.0229 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353254 330 equipment and suppliee in place, and start on a long weekend in bringing the census down.ahd tryihg'te actually'trahsitiOh and move ever a lohg'weeken?f which I weuld say weuld probably be-e foureeay er a fivemdey-weekehd. Thet?e kind of where we?re_plannihg right Howl Se I?m going to talk um SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Where are you going to have thie detailed plan worked out On your part 30 the reet_ef us who are here in suppert make sure that We clear the decks and make eure that the things that you?re.ceuhting on to happen and get, in face, eqUimeht delivered and all those.thimge? MS. RUFF: I weuld Say thet prebebly the detailed plan will not be ready fer at least a year, but there will be parts of it. It will he-frem itereht procesees. We?re working on gettieg same aetivetieh eeneultehts on right new to help US we den?t have necessarily the expertise, and l?m,the first-One to admit that? We are gettihg'ae ihtegrated Scheduler on that will put the whele process hegether ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0230 AF2272.0230 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353255 .233 with the Genetruction aspect, the.activatien, Se that we?ll.know how each precess impacts the'etner One. That integrated scheduler is Geming enbeard may 29-30 we?ll have that precess. We are in the of building it, but I weuld say it will at least,-a year; SEQRETARE SHINSEKI: I wnuld Say that as you buiin_tnisf I for one weuld like te-underetand what you?re.building inwards. And when it? done, E?d Like tn underetand what it is. If it?s a year from have been at this prnjeet eince 2060. I mean, that?e-what people Will Say, right? 1 mean, in effeCt'We-Stafted this in 2009, but thet?S "m hintery for everyene else-i5 2000? SO 13 yearsf and what you can?t afferd'is the building?s done and yeu?re run into we just didn?t get the final planning in plage, MS. ROFF: And believe me, I?m feeling.it every day? SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Yeahf and SO We helpi We need to be in support. And When-I'sey'we, ANDERSON COURT REPORTING 706 Duke Street, Suite 10.0 Alexandria, 2231-4 Phone (703} 519m7180 Fax (703} 5194?190 AF2272.0231 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353256 USvaeg?lzf??fle 332 there are a let of folks around this table mm IT ineluded; legal included; foiee ef the Secretary i?elUde?l We need to make sure that this thing is delivered. We?re Geurting on you to do yeur part3 You all will a0 your part. When we say this prejeet i3 ready'te be activated and set a date for patients t0 be Seen, We?re geing to deliver thatl MR. SCHDENHARD: We need te build in Simulation and a lot of reversal and-d9 a.~w SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Training that gets the Staff ready? MR. SCHQENHARD: Yeem MS. ROPE: One comment I-Wb?ld make me and I?m net making light of Denver?e.aetivatien "u but 1 think we?re much different than Las Vegae? Briande, and New Grleane. And that is that we have-the clinical teams, that we are net geing te be having'to hire.peeple, orient peeple, train them in VA aa'a new VA employee. We have that. Yes, we will have-ta be training in terme of new building ayatems, mew Operations, simulation, but the'enly'new program ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0232 AF2272.0232 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353257 .233 that We?ll be bringing up is spinal cord injury. And I dnn?t make light of that, but we.have been treating spinal Cord injured patients at the Denver facility for a time~ The PVA, of cout'e, haS certain tequirementa that they want to maka Sure that we meet in terms of staffing and that, but I think that-we are in a better positien in terms of the.magnitnde of the mm I-guess I would call it tha recurring-tesnurCeS that are required for Denver compared tO'the others. PETZEL: The prmceas cf activating'a tnplacement medical canter i3 ditierent.than the proeesa for activating a new medical Banter like-Lag Vegas Qt Orlando. But there?s still "i itfs Still a big deal. MS. ROFF: Hugel It?s a huge m" I?m net making light of it. I?m just saying=that it?s differgnt and probably net quite as Camplex Q1 R: Orlan?n_would be. In terms of astivatinn,-wetve Started Same Qf early. In the w" the'facility project taam, the joint venturg team, the ANDERSON COURT REPORTING 706 Duke Street, Suite: 10.0 Alexandria, 2231-4 Phone (703} Fax (70.3.3? 519347190 AF2272-0233 AF2272.0233 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353258 234. architects and subcontractors mm have identified 3baaically the equipment, the furniture, and the fixtutee that we need. And.we have aeVele?ea what lid eall-and-what we call a reugh magnitude at order of magnitude Of what we need. We alae back in started planning on what FEE we would need, and that FTE was based eh first.ef all the_ehahge in the mieSiOh, The ehly'teal ehahge in the miesion was adding SCI, but aleo the expansion and the eize of the facility. Wheh yeu?te-geihg tram 650,830 equate feet te 1.1 millien equate feetr you?ve get'twiee ae much epaeei We ate going'te need a let mare-peepie t0 maintain that spaceE te keep it Clean, -and to secure that place? And whether it-ie.peeple er Centraete, we?ll heed additional peoplet And Se in 2010 we submitted to the VISN what we thought-we heede?, One thing that wae somewhat curious "u and I -think yeu?ll probably aek a questieh at at leaet my asked. When we came up with out requiremehte "u -ahd these are estimates of what we need for equipment, EN DE R53qu COURT RE FORTING 706 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA Q2314 Phone {703} 519w7180 Fax 51$??l90 AF2272-0234 AF2272.0234 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353259 335 for furniture mm who validated it? Whe-Eaid thatfe the tight way to g0? Well, I guess I?d say hehedy validated it in a true eehee, hut'Wheh we compared-our nontecurrihg eoete for furniture, fixtures, and equipment with New Qtleehe, with Lee Vegas, and thath, we were all within pretty-much the same ballpark. Prehably estimating all different ways that we estimated it, but it was pretty similar t0 that? I knew that as we get eleSet, We have in eur budget there will be validation Qhe ef Vhlidetihn ie our aetivatieh Came eh and they will do a fleet~by~?leet in?ehtety 0f everything that we have in the Denver facility. -Ahd then-we?ll determine of all of that that we have; What eeh we.use and what can?t we use in terms at bringing forward to the new facility? My will be ie that there will be very little. Part ef it ie because high tech equipment is juet that, and it becomes eheeltte-vety seen; alee because the Way that we ate doing business and the way that wefte-eehfigurihg the ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?i80 Fax AF2272-0235 AF2272.0235 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353260 336 work, We-prebably fit most of the Old ferniture inte a new envirenment? So we will be deing-thet, and that iS-ene of the firet tasks tha?'the aetivatien Gehsultant team will be working with our?internel team to come up with. I?m geing t0 g0 an to the next slide, which ie-the-eetivatien budgeti are estimates, but a couple of things I went to talk abeut-and our CED was here as Welld Right now we have estimated that the alleeatien fer Denver from VECO fer'fundinq ie-?24li2 millien for activation, and we have a prejeeted need right now ef $353.8 million. SO we have a delta right new ef about $112 million, $ll2.6'millien. Since the Denver project was delayed aeproximately l4 menthe, eur total funding timeline that-we.nriginellg submitted ie off and all.of'the funding requirements have been pushed ferward with a -mejerity of our activation dollars needed in Ffle and lie and'tie activation medel right new Bede at 2014: .All right, so, thereTS a little bit eflreCOheiliatien neede'te be doing because the medel ends and we will ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272-0236 AF2272.0236 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m035326?1 337 be using activation doiiare threugh 2&1? with the way that we?ii be activating the facility. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: 30,-who tundg.the activation? DR4 PETZEL: We de? VHA, SECRETARY SHINSEKI: And is thie part at the project DR, PETZEL: Net tight Hewi_ne, MS. ROPE: N0, it?e Separate; SECRETARY SHINSEKI: SQ, "t DR, PETZEL: It?s an iegue that we've been. diemueeing about whether we want te inelude thie in the pre?ect coste, but right new,.it deeSm?ti SCHOENHARD: We brought it up at-the- midyear that we?re trying to have that carryever and then it puts in Some kind of mm $500 millien Carryaver. DR. PETZEL: Well, no, I mean, what.he?s talking about i3 when we get a appreptiatien nu MR. SCHOENHARD: Right. ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0237 AF2272.0237 DerivermPhase2mGroup2m0353262 USVAeg?izf??fl? 333 BR. PETZEL: "m it would i?ciude aCtiVatiG? MR. SCHOENHARD: Yes, which-it doesniti PETZEL: Which it doeen?i. MR4 SCHQENHARD: Right. So, I?m eayihg from a VISN perspective, we?re trying to carryover ae'muoh a3 we can locally to offeite that'bill that Lynette identified. GEN SHINSEKE: So, what?e the reaction going to be when we suggest we have this project for'X amount, whatever the authorization ceiling isf 800.ahd Whatever; but we are bringing it in at 616, but we'got activation costs that go 341 if We food the Whole thing. What?S the play here? MR4 GRAMS: Although it?g hot in the project, there is a line time-in the medioei oere appropriation every year that_we identified as what we need for aotivatiohsl So, the reaotion is going to be aek for who: you hee?. That?s what Congrees is going to Say. So,_you ghould'he agkihg in that line item and Congress hag been giving ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0238 AF2272.0238 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353263 _239 what we asked for in.totalityn I hint our biggest hurdle with all thie is Thank youi MR. And what?s going to happen ie they?ll continue to do the top down, can't go over this level, and then the challenge we?re faced with is okayr how do we carve out of all the other-money that we have? the money te fund activatione, and thatls the way We have been doing it? MR. aneKe: I think Ira be remiss mgt.ta say that the IT piece of that ie not inoluded in that activation part. So, we haven?t included that eaeh time in this. By 2015, the paradigm?e going to really Shift from what the clinical worker looks like. It?e going to be a mobile environment, probably Single device that they carry around, desktope. In-my world, I think wefll he obsolete at that pointy but there are a lot.of things we?re going to have to.do to make that infrastructure ready. Now, part of the infraettueture is available in-the building, all the wiringf the that, ANDERSON COURT REPORTING 706 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA Phone (703} 519w7180 Fax (?0f AF2272-0239 AF2272.0239 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353264 USVAeEQizf??fi? 340 but the router configuratiens and the Wireless devicee up.there are net. 80, we build these-every year, we build it.into, we?re already working an that. we go down and leek at it, werk with the GIGS and all thatI pert Of that, but it's really different in the IT worid_ef'whet it?e going to look Like in 15 from what it lacks like nowi Gee of the advantages Qf'the Deever Site is we de have their main VietA eyetem in a data center. Se, lat of the trauma in the pest'wes how d0 I keep their main data center running while we were inte new facility? helped activate the?Pelo.elte faCiLity; I was a CAD at the time there, and that'was e-reelly teugh thing t0 do. We hed-lest-it in the earthquake. (Inaudible) together a system term and then had to figure out how do we get it into the new building without any downtime in that? Se,'the IT piece ie a key part to it and you?ve got t0 leek.et it as the times changei MS. ROFF: And my main-Cemeern at thie stage, I haven?t even heard how much has been even ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax 519e?ig? AF2272-0240 AF2272.0240 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353265 Us??an 0'12 ,i 0 5 f1 6 24-} 'plahhed or allocated fer the Dther-?prejeetg and it has between the tour heepitale varied Significantly and I?m-teheerhed that we make aure'that whatever IT 'platforme, whatever types of IT that we?re planning for, What i8 needed in 2015, and I realize that technology moves rapidly, but it?s impertaht'that-the IT-budget has allocated Sufficient dellars. I think erahee'has about $22 million in IT that?a'heeh alleeated, and that is a concern that I have, that Sufficieht i for Denver out_Of the IT rt Di 9 3 MR. GRAMS: "fee, and one .ef the Ways we dee?t help ourselves, and you actually gave he guidance with regard tQ this last week, Mr. Secretary, and most of the peeple were in the ream at the time, and that ie etart identifying activations as a separate line item in the IT budget. Sew that whee the budget goes forward, we can simply add that the for medical care te the fer IT and_ actually for the firat time ever, have the tetal activations. Right now, activations is kind at a ANDERSGN COURT REPORTING 706 Duke Street, Suite 10.2. Alexandria, VA 223l4 Phone {703} 519w?180 Fax 519m?190 AF2272.0241 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353266 USVAeg?izf??fl? 342 Silent.kiiler in IT. We identify the medical Safe, but we ?en?t make a big deal out 0f it in the IT budgetm SO, and.mmst if it comes through in SD and E, Service Delivery and Engineering, and I?ve aeked my people the last yea? and this year t0 identify that Separately in Reger?s budget SQ that they are line iteme fer that of?ift1 Eric wili be coming out. He had gone t0 New orleane so far and do a tetal He?s the SES thet?e in charge 0f my field services. A tetel what neede to be there; :We have feu??i that it?s all over the map. We went te one cf the eitee "u I wen't g0 int0.whieh sites and stuff mm that were.way overeetimetedf weren?t thinking future-think, we?re putting Closets and activation everywhere that didn?t-need te be, weren?t going te the envirenmente we?re geing to go tei SQ, We de need_te be tight at the hip as we do nOMadays, ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0242 AF2272.0242 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353267 USvgeg?lzf??fl? 343 haw the IT goes is hew yen go in the future? It really-i3 going t0 be. MS. RUFF: Most certainly?is; Because elinieiane are geimg eoneumerndriven, they?re going-tQ-walk in-there with their own iPad and ?hey?re geieg?te say I went to use this device and I want te walk areund with it and I want to be abLe to to yeur netwerk? How d0 I do it securely? ?ew-do I move feIWerd with thie? And we got t0 be thie time and get that infreetrue ere into place fer them. MS. ROPE: And 1 need th?? Same interfa?e yeu weuld have for New Orleang "m Yellidi?j_rha?ma it?- MS. ROFF: ekay, MS. FATE: Just as mete that the CU activations model is heading in freeh right now, and; Sef'we'will have far the budget Gaming up? So, we?ll have-the-reeulte of 2013, 2014, and 2015 by meet weekh The one component does include, as well.I ET ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0243 AF2272.0243 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353268 USVAeg?lzf??fl? 344 pfevide an estimate 30 if there?s a faster-that we need to incerperate, if it?s right new tee law, right now ie-the time because mm Yea, I think Erie?s been working with the group. Yes. Has been developing that because'when he firet when Out, and he?s with yen fer Like a yearmandwavhaif.om this SE8 peeition. MS, FATE: Yes. MR, When you firSt went out, he'saw this i5 alL over the map, we have tQ get t0 standardize it Semehew, even theugh it gigs Outeide of the mermal activatien, it hag to.be part 0f that structure. MS, FATE: And thet is Que thing that.we?re working-with, as well, with Dr. Primgle. MR: Yes. MS. FATE: To make Sure that all ef the projects, the NRMS, the minors, and any major lease er ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0244 AF2272.0244 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353269 USVAeg?lzf??fl? 345 Leases'to ensure that these for the EUIB and 2014 eyele also get included so you can have a line item for that . Yea. M84 FATE: Even though'thet get writte? inte the medel right new? but And, Jim, Dr. Billings designimg a model aetuaily that Will get us Closer to accurate-estimatee. This year, we were pretty'geedx We-were within a couple million dellars of what we really needed for activation. 30, I think hie medel is Starting to tune?up pretty well, 30; I'thinklhe?e been ihvolved in thet precessd SECRETARY SHINSEKI: SO,-Jeff, if yen had t0 grab a reugh number of activation medical ET fer Denver, what would be your mm MEG I?m kind at thinking erende and Denver, and they had 22. I meanf Eric.hasn?t leaked'at that, but I?m thinking prebably in that reage, 22 to 25, in that range. Again, What We?re trying to do, as when Neil Rogers was doing, the ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0245 AF2272.0245 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353270 usvgeg?izj??fl? 346 ruthless reduction. 80; we?re trying to meve tomards an emvironment that doesn?t store thi?gs lecaiiy; doesn't d0 any of that Stuff locally; we?re .I tryimg_to baef up Our Systems that are tie data If eentere :0 do that and give them the connectivity that yen have right now with yeur phone and_etuff. Yam (3) W. denft really care where any of that stuff i3. that?s What we?re trying to do is to wave ?e that environment, 80, when you?re leaking at the 15; we?te having to do eome future think an thie stuff, ESpeGialiy in the Goutext of eecuri?g the data. We be WettiEd about rt want-ts make yeu not have detaeentets and Stuff; yeu?d just like to thie stuff. if I can get my arms arOqu-all this in three dates-entersF can Secure it becauee I den?t have t0 i?volve you in that part of it, sir. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Se, what are the optics here? we deliver a medical center at ahd then we come and say and it?s gaihg ta take Us ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272-0246 AF2272.0246 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m035327?1 USvgeg?lzf??fl? 347 to activate. So, what ate?the apticS? I ma mi?? MR. GRAMS: Either we build it Cheaper Or we?re running it expeneive, tight? I mean, these are the aptics. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Semeone?s geimg to say wait.e minutef right, we want :0 take "w I?m tryimg t0 aetieipate net having a SLOWGOWH where Semeene sage Stopi We went to go through every-item en the activation list, and if that?s likely ta happen, whet?5'the that we begin new to start edueating and m? I mean, I don?t RHOW'whether'it?e 341 isia?geed number. I den?t know weather 25 ie a geed number fer a medical IT, but Somebody?e geimg to demand "m MR. We will scrutinize the IT of itI Sir, very deeply, eepecialiy_yeu were hitting the nail on the head on what we?re talking about because taig ie a move frem another medical center, a let ef the router eonfigurati0n8.ehd.etuff like that I will be-ebie to nee again, a lot ef'the pieces are ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0247 AF2272.0247 DenvermRhase2mGroup2m0353272 343 there I?ll be able to in closeta.again. It?a a different thingf year furniture and'tnings like that? 30-mm SECRETARY SHINSRKII Rut'wa'nan?t explain that when we get challenged on it] If activation diasusaiona about what?s in it is going to happen and my-Sanse i5 it we build a $608 million groject and say it takes us $400 million to activate, gnaw ma} okay? Now, if we?re going to say after Challenge that.tha reason it take: ua $25 million is because we?ve changed our approach to IT, we need to Start that-aimeatian proceaa new, that wafre Gaming out of fiXad.platf0rms, that we?re going ta mebile renters and it-ia the way health care 13 going to be deliveredl That education needs to start now? and canit do itF okay? VHA, you have to.start haating the Net up; IT, all right, it?s an education preceaa? MR. Agreed. SECRETARY SHINSERI: I still danit that $341-million in the right numberr but We?re gaing ta find'eut. ANDERSQN COURT Duke Streat, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phnna ?703) 519m?l80 Fax AF2272-0248 AF2272.0248 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353273 USvgeg?lzf??fl? 349 MR. SCHOENHARD: res, We?re.goihg to eeruh SECRETARY SHINSEKI: You?re-going to have to Scrub it hard. Gtherwiee, you?ll get a stop; prooee? ho_further, and what we don?t want ie a Stop work at that point? GRAMS: Sir, I think we?re poieed to-do exactly'what you?re talking about? I thihk we?ve dome the Spate work on it by the work.that we did last year under the deputy secretary?s direetioh can create an activation model. So, for the firet time, we aotually have a model. We walked GMB'thrOugh it leer year; They approved it, they bought into it. They popped-the hood, they looked at it? they said this 15 a reasonable model. So, we need to reehgage them oh.that. If we haven?t briefed the Hill staff on it, we need to ?o thatm We just need to get people to buy-ihto the gmodel, so that way when they Say Where did thie 343 or whatever-the number is, where did it come fromJ our first line of defense is it?s the model, the model ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0249 AF2272.0249 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353274 USVAeg?lzf??fl? 350 Law that we walked you through. That?s the resulte that it?e'predueihg and then peel it dewu tram there, depehdihg on how much detail they want to g9 into} GOULD: I think Bab, that yeu?ve get to it, it weuld be industry'behehmarks f0: aetivatione of medical facilities and hespitale SQ we can get a sense of directienally when you have the Seets to build, it?s another 49 percent or 60 percent just buiiding ?eet] I think that weuid be very telpfui; MR, NEARY: And I think the develepere 0f the model, I think in develepihg'that'deEL; they did same ihdUetry searches RQFE: They did. MR4 NEARY: m" ae well ee.we can Work tegether; MSG ROFF: If you look_et east per square f00t.pet teem, and it can pretty mueh drive it, and we?d prebably heed to validate what we?re deue he MR. NEARY: Yee? ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0250 AF2272.0250 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353275 MS. ROFF: "m against that model and we underetehd that, but this is our #4 Tim'not'goihg t9 Say it?s our first, it?s an iterative! but we Cehtihue tO'deveiop that model, and most at ours compared to say Orlando i3 henreeurtihg with eeme 0f the-recurring Costs where their huge amount is the tecutring?cest for all-the staff that they have to bring em and. train? 30, it?s a iittie different. Just a comment, the VISN received that $48 millieh in FY12 and because our ?esta teeii; activation hae net been getting until 2&13, WAGS ie carrying that over at this stage oi the game ahd I know that Qur VISN is also trying tQ help supplement what we may need and i5 requeetihg tram ERA approval to be able to carryover greater funding than we normally-do. And I don?t think that has been approved or.dieapproved at this point in time, but the ideas that they?re to bank same money te help us in that praceasf MR. GRAMS: And, Sir, that?e ehe of the )a.eawafe ?tom i.e ear review; *efte'wotjin- wit. th th ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272.0251 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353276 USvaegolzf??fl? 352 and the intent ie to bring that back to you and see if.the justification for carrying over more than million is Strong enough that you would sapport doing that for two yeare in a row, we?ve sold our multiyear budget plan as carrying.over $500 millioet If we?re going to go above that} you wanted to be comfortable that you can defend iti ROFF: The other Comment is the activation money comes in onewyear-ihoremente; and sometimes that?s very difficult with the'way-you purohaee, your obligationa, your furniture, your fixtures} and, so, one of the other options that has been and we really have not spent a lot oi time on, is that if we cannot get that onewyeat money obligated in the timelihee that?s requireda should we be'looking at the Supply fund ae a place to bahk.that money and tien nee it again, Thete.are proe and Cone, I gueae; of each one of them is that we have to pay the service charge, which is what, 1 peroent? MR. One pereehtw ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0252 AF2272.0252 Denve{mPhase2m??oup2m0353277 25-3 MS. ROFF: But th& Oth?f aspect of it is that'at lRaSt we?re not loging those fund?r as MR. I think thereis probably Where. if you work with Paul, yeu C'n Swap that meney*0ut so it can.be carried OVRK. So, I think it would lead.us back to the with the secretary about can we gQ over $500 millien? I?d hate to See ycu pay that in the Euppiy fund when I mm SPEAKER: Right. MR. I think thera.were Ether ways SPEAKER: Flexibility. MR. mm to get that flexibilityd MR. Why? {Laught?r} MR, the base level an that prespect of ?m MS. ROFF: See, 1 didn?t mm SPEAKER: He was (inaudible). MR. GOULD: Yes, I was already {inaudible}, SECRETARY SHINSEKI: That? begauge yau?re :m tryimg ta protect ymur franchige fundingl ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Streat, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phona ?703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0253 AF2272.0253 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353278 354 MS. ROFF: Juet trying te get the rate-down a let lewer. It haen?t happened yet. Right now, we have an executive activation teami It is ehaired by the ezter of the medical center. We have what I would call ef.eur resource on that team] 'We have our internal project-teem on it. We will be bringing on a member ijthe NAC, and Glenn has get namee ef that individual frem the-thd We?re going to need a name a8 and person to be part of it. And then'weill'be-brihgimg eh two what we call eeneultente. Gee will be Gentreet that will be fer actually eh. because we do not have the peepie ih emf SAG West te support and then this ether one is an activatien consultant team, The hospitals in our area that have activated, have used activation ceneultante an? teeme, thet.heve had experience in activating.mere than one hospital, and we weuld like to use their expertise. we'have developed a Statement we?re en elir fifth iteration at that, and it eheuld be done Jene'l, ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0254 AF2272.0254 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353279 agave-Am: 2,50 5 1 6 25-5 and we?ll be hiring a contract persen frem SAG West that'will be coming en probably in Juee that will then be leekihg at developing a procurement team that'will flex up and flex down to help us with ell'of the peekegee that we redevelop. So, it?e a little bit different appreaeh than the ethers are dcing. I underetend that @rLendo new'hae a statement of work, as Well? f0: an activation consulting group; but I haven?t Spent a lot if time-ether than looking at their statement Of'WQrk; SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Sheuld thie be Standardized? MR. SCHOENHARD: Yes, it?S Semething we Sheuld pull together in the activetiens gxoup t0 help with.~~ SECRETARY SHINSEKI: IS this.en.advisery Committee? MS. ROFF: Ne. Thie ie a mu SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Thie.i3 a-deGiSiQn we MS. ROFF: They come in team and they week- with your team and help to de the work. The cancern ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272-0255 AF2272.0255 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353280 356 have-is We?re running a medical cgntat; and haVe service sheets that have t0 run their and they?just don?t have the time to d? this} SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Sm; are?these folks empoweted t0 make dgcigiona and implement them? They will be empowared. "We will hava a mgthed for bringing them together? and I?m in the tight new of right new, the assaciate director is in charge of the actiVatiOH team? and I?m ih the process of develhping a positihh descriptihh far a deputy directer that will just d0 activatiahg becau?e I think it?a that important-and we?ll bring theS? teams and people tegether. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: But they?re-deci5i0m~ makerS? RUFF: Yes. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: In other words, they deh?t repert to anybody elae, they "a MS. ROFF: They report to me? SECRETARY SHINSEKI: SQ, theyFre.adViaory team? ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Streat, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phona ?703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0256 AF2272.0256 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m035328?1 357 MS. ROFF: Yea. SECRETARY SHINEEKI: Okay} that?s the queselon I?m asking. RUFF: Right, okay. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: makee the ROFF: They?ll come-and say-this is what we'rehemmehd we do, let?s gG forward. 80, I talked about the activatiOn Chh?ultaht. The goal is to have the team leader for the procurement piece of the activatihh ccheulted on by ?6-Oher 2012, and the pracuremeht hereah Oh by the Ehd hi May. Under the activatieh phage; thie is kind Of a chart of how it would work and Visualize. The. director, which is actually going to'he the deputy, will be under the network uh?er the direqthr. They?ll be the internal team, the facility activation liaisan in Prhject Eagle and activation with a number of Geneultahte, and theh-the SAG wes?, ANDERSQN COURT Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519mll80 Fax Elge?lg? AF2272-0257 AF2272.0257 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353282 USvgeg?lzf??fl? 353 and the will all be coming together'?nder the activation committee. SECRETARY Whatis the diff?gehceg between a dotted and a solid line? M84 ROFF: It wee a mietaket Fire: Qf-ell, there eheuld he a eelid line between the medical center-director and the aeseciate directcr that?s he: there! SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Okay; M34 ROFF: End the detted line means that the deputy directer, director brihge them all together. So, for instance, the activation does not have eny direct feSthSibility :c the facility activetieh but have it :0 the ageeciate directora Se, ve have to Change Some of the de?S; okay? SECRETARY SEIESEEI: okayg MS. ROFF: I think I?ve gene.over this, the activation team components, the Gentraeting teem eempehehtea Activatien plane. ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0258 AF2272.0258 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353283 USVAeg?lzf??fl? 359 Besiealiy, we de have eeme rudimentary requirements that have been started with the neer groups} We?ve identified baseline furniture and. equipment and we have identified that base plan, but it is not complete. Se, we?ll be deing the room by reem by the activation team and I wanted te get to the major equipment I knew thet that has been a huge eeneern in Oriendei Below are eeme of the biggeet we have to make, equipment. And we have what is eelied deferred design reome, end that ie the reeme are not totally deeigned until we knew what the equipment is and we ha*e the Specs for the equipment and it?s given te the eentreeteri Se, they?re net'building the nuclear medicine reem er Siemene when yeu*re buying GE or you?re not going to be doing the beams in.the OR until yen knew where they are? Right newf we have started the ef working? We have an engineer, a fermer reeident engineer-tram Durham1 whe ie working with the eentraeter right new and going through and_ieeking at ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0259 AF2272.0259 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353284 USVAeEQizj??fi? 360 H. all ef'the rooms that we have, doing an eteriay em them to leek to if what?s above the ceiling in terme of.eir~cenditiening due,e, in terms of everything else will be suitable for that, and then we?re deveieping a schedule of when-the ceetteeter needs the Specs for the equipment and then we?te working backwards with the NAG t0 determime when-?e have-te.meke that decieion? The NRC, we?ve had a preliminary-centerence Ceil'with themi They say that they need at leaet Que year ahead of time for lead time te.be able t0 procure the highmcoet, highmtech that we require? We thee have to add on what the Gontt3ct.?eede, as well{ and that 15 where we?re Starting tQ-work-en-that schedule. We artieipate that the joint venture teem, the centres or, the NAC, and out team will be gaming tegethet for our first meeting te establish guidelinee in the beginning of June. We?ve been trying-ta ge: threugh the peer review and everythihg-elSe ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272-0260 AF2272.0260 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353285 usveegeizj??fle 36] that it requires, but I knew this ie a huge thing ehd we went to make sure that we do it right. MR. GOULD: Earlier, Something called a ?whiteeut IS the you juet described the Same thing? I just te'weht.te make that mu MS. ROFF: FE never even heard.the ?whiteeut as well. MR. GOULD: ery. es. ROFF: Se, the 'm1e-e1tmg fer I Said on the next page, is June ZOIE. We are hiring, and this i5 being-hired by tiers grcup an integrated project SchedUleri That fullmtime pereeh is coming on May 29, and that individual will develop the entire Sahedule fer the projects that includes all the eehetruetieh aepeets, all the activation espeete, and item What I understand, I haven?t Seen this integrated.eehedule yet-Jr thet they?ll ehew that if yen de ehe thing, hew it impeete everything elee elehg the timelihe 30 that ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272.0261 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353286 362 H. we knew that if there are any hieeupe, how we heVe to go?baok-end make adjustmehte. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: with this? Okay. M84 ROFF: okay? We talked.ehout the oomeultantel Se, all we need now i3 the office of Information Technology to provide e-pereoh that will be;eur gomto, and we?d love to even have them an the grouad. MR4 It?ll be more'thah ?govtoa? What we?ve done at the other sitee i3 actually a pereoh that?s their job. During aetivatiOH, you Will haVe someone that that is their maih job is to help.you with the activation. M34 ROFF: Right. We welcome them with opeh erms. We are putting all of the activation peeple lhto the Clinic building South so that_they can work tegether and be a full team and they have good cellaboration and cooperation? All right, how I?m onto the_hext thatfe~repurposlhg of the Denver facilityo The ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272-0262 AF2272.0262 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353287 363 existing Denver VAMC has 1? buildings, l?lg? antes. 'We-etarted Genatruetion on that building in 19%8, an, it is Old. I can assure you that it has got.major infrastrueture iasueal SO, it would be very expeneivea tn renovate that building. I certainly weul?n?t want te-do it or make that investment;-maybe ethere would, and l.am teld that it will require acme kind of action with historic becanee'it?e ngyeareweln. The initial property appraieal that.was done in 2002, when we started this proneae, gnawed a net value ef' $16 million. And the appraisal iigure'eounte for land, demelitieny and keeping the parking.gatage. The parking garage is prebably the only really good building on there-exeept-fer-the Gemmunity living center, which was built later an and that is tied into our central energy plan and everything else. there's Seme ieenee are, We.are deing mm ECRETARY SHINSEKI: Do We have enmeene fram_ inietery? MR. GQULD: Yes, right here. RUDE COURT REPORTING 706 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703} 519n7180 Fax 519w?190 AF2272-0263 AF2272.0263 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353288 2:64 SECRETARY SHINSEKI: HiSthy Of "m SPEAKER: Historic MR. GOULD: Historical, thete yam g0; SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Yes. SPEAKER: And the here, efteh the right appraiser focused an the tight preperty, and these figures, you have-e.demoiitien Qt are refiected in the $16 million? MS. RUFF: Yesr but it?s OldT all right. MR. GOULD: SPEAKER: I see. MS. ROFF: ?nd, so, we?re-starting thie process again; all right. We?re aging a-Stuey ihu heuse; meaning with statiehulevel memeyi to see abeut teasing the CLC for either adminietrative or fenctiGns because the funetien ie Gee-of the things that hae been identified in the Program fer 2014.to 2024 that we?re going to need letget requirements. So, we?re looking to See. It?s a Separate-building, 23,000 square feet, if thete*e a ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0264 AF2272.0264 DerivermPhase2mGroup2m0353289 usueegeizje?fl? 365 H.A potential that we could repurpoee it, make it a standaiene building, and we?ll anW'that this year. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: the Sustainment cast and mm M84 RUFF: Yes, exactly; Nerve had a lot of intereet in the neighborheed for our prepertyi we have Rose.Medical Ceuter'aeress the street. They are landlceked, and we represent Something that could be_p0teutially ueeful fer them. The campus nu SECRETARY SHINSEKI: This ie the exieting VA medical centeri MS. ROPE: Right, the campus, Whieh used.to be-Uuivereity 0f Colcrede, wee purchased by a developeri The developer is making plane for uoudoef tewn centere, you name it. So, there is interest in acquiring the property. I guess the that we will have is as we repurpoee or diveet it, the cast that will require to de that because Qf what the requirement are for handing over a buildiug_er Semething like that. ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0265 AF2272.0265 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353290 agave-4m: 2,50 5 1 6 2:66 We have a meeting set fer May 29, and SECRETARY SHINSEKI: That?ll depend on haw badly they want it. ROFF: Yee, I think 304 I?m not enter Maybe Geerge ea? tell us Seme infermatieu about that. SEWARCMAN: I?m sorry; what wae_yeur queetien? ROFF: was saying how much it.weuld Cast-t0 actually get rid of the building; and the Secretary said "u SECRETARY SHINSEKI: The ie bringing it'up to-standarde becauee it?s Old and tt MR. Well, ?bringing it up te etendarde, if yeu?re locking et-a S48-millien ceet a3 an example, that was derived from 2902, then I think that?s probably a nonstarter? I think we?ve had lots of estimates On previouS buildings. I_believe New Grleame-was one of them, and we actually did decenetruet a building in Allen Perky-Michiga?, amd these figures were in the $23 milliem tahgem And that?s-basically the deconstruct, mave'all the ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0266 AF2272.0266 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m035329?1 usvgegelzje?fl? 367 H. haZardouS weste prior to obviously demoliehlng'the entire building, and then you have the.raw land. So, you?re going to have a Same sitUa?iO? that most likely we?ve had in other inetanoee where the deeonetruetion is going to be more-expeneive than the value of the entire Campus, and I think that?s lust.eomething we have to deal with. As far a3 interested parties, I?m Sure they?xe intereeted and, at best, they?re pxobably ihteree?ed in fair market value for'whatever the land would be, and I suspect that wouldn?t be close to whet it?e'going to cost US to, again, decenetruet or correct'to the tune of $48 millid?. The process will be, new, we get sgeoial legislation because there i8 an intereeted party like, for example, Unlvereity-of Colorado, then we Could, perhape, get Specific legielation that directs-me directly to University-of Colo?edz, Historically, those types of of legielation are ne.ooe? to the facilitiee, but, OtheKWiee, We wanid try'to-diepoee it through GSA, and that would be ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272-0267 AF2272.0267 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353292 usve-A'2e-12-3051? 16 268 basically best value that we could get; and Suspect where the negative valued MS. FATE: And, George, aren?t we still teepeneible for Cleaning it up? M84 ROFF: I mean, yes?.ptobebly. SEWARCMAN: Well, abeolutely. That?s why I?m saying we weuld have t0 do some "n if we den?t itf then it tO_GSA_will i? all likelihood probably no good They?re just going to hold it, run some a?e, find that there are no takers, and in the meantime, charge.ue fer the Ceete and their services. 30, we weuld de a feasibility Study. 'That weuld be the fire: thing t0 do is to do a feasibility study what intereete are out there, sounds.like there are, but they probably would net include the duilding-iteelf, just like we don?t like all these eld heepitele that people offer to us. met FATE: Right. MR. SEWARCMAN: For our use? SQ, that iS.a that probably would have t0 start fairly seen, ANDERSQN COURT REPDRTINS 706 Duke Street, Suite 100. Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone {703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0268 AF2272.0268 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353293 USVAeg?lzf??fi? 369 but, ultimately? I think we need te'he prepared to put some mnney into this. MS. ROFF: And, ea, there.are a namber Qf peeple'arennd this table that are scheduled t0 a eonferenee call next Friday to start fer the second time areundi And probably it?ll take a long time for US t0 figure eat what we?ll dc with that, So, it?s part of eur process? All right; the other thing I just wanted.t? talk briefly about wee the and.where we are an that and everyjyearg we take a leek-at the criteria that has been developed fer and leek'at what we have against the criteria. Se, we-have submitted our plan for 2014. When we did the gap analysis fer the 561?, which has a planning horizon of 10 yearel 2014 to 2024, we had a net GAP for our epaee er.329,300 aquare feetm And if you leek on the next page, it wee identified in a number of different areas, with the greateet gap being in, if I can ree. it, mental health, that?s outpatient, which has been growing ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) Fax AF2272-0269 AF2272.0269 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353294 USVAeg?izf??fi? 370 rapidly1r and ancillary and diagnostiC, that?s the and treatment which is, I-thinkg a 65,000 eqUare_fcet gap, and then common area! weich i3 really things that are used fer swing Space and moving back and fetth. Based en the 330,000 square feet gap, which include the new Lakewccd facility has been factcred ihtc this gap, the expanded Celeradc Springs has been factored into this gap, and we haVe been charged with ceming up with a plan to eliminate that gap. We have in that Sum eliminated at a 98 percent factcr'and that includes the repurpoeing potentially Cthhe CLC te provide more PRETP, same convergiea leter on cf primery care tc Specialty servicee in Denver; And then a major gap in mental health and ancillary and diagnostic and Specialty care wculd be adding entc the new and or diagneetic treatment center, constructing a major mental'health building on the erwperty and thee leasing additienal research space. ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0270 AF2272.0270 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353295 agate-Am: EEO-5116 27]. 1 The researcn Space requiree'l thihk it?s 45,538 square feet, and if we cauld; we would at eOUt8e_Iease that frem the Univereity ef'eeimrade that?s in the precese er would like?to conetruet a third building. The Oth iseue with the University at Colerade is they aIwaye like-cap dallare upfreht and it weuld like t0 mix the capital dQlIare? aththat has always been a stuminhg block in the past; Se, these are what we have Qh.the beeke'to close that gap. If you were t0 ask.me today do I need this Space right now, I would probably say that I dah?t think so, However, it we continue t0 meet the prejectihhs that are Gut there, then-I think-it ie-a Do I think that we're going to be in huge straite when we move into a brahdmhew hospital that_ie twice the Size that we have how? I.deh?t? I think that We have worked very hard t0 effeet Some ef the space Challengee and I think the meet importaht thihg ie.ie we'heve hot jeepardized clihieal care for ANDERSCN COURT 706 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, Phehe {703) Fax (IO-3). AF2272.0271 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m0353296 372 patiente. We have two exam teems'pet previderr we have very nice and I would call luxurioue as Cempared te-the_epaee we have new for single patient toemet We have taken a lot of out interventienal-platferme and put them together 50 that we?re net duplicati?g peet?~ space, 80, I think wefve used the space-that we have-been allocated as best as we k?ew hem; having met moved in the deer. Will we need additional space? Yes, ?rebably, but I feel confident that the veterans of Celorade and the and etakeheldete will be'Very happy aid we will Serve the'veterane well SECRETARY SHINSEKE: At same point, the requirement becomes important; Besirability ie alwaye an impo tent diseuesion, but, clearly? the requirement has to be mm and that requirement could change ever time, e; we 168d a t0 shew that we validate and eae-validate how we present thiel Okay, let me go around the fg?mg MR. Gee laSt Slide, Sit. ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?l80 Fax AF2272-0272 AF2272.0272 DerivermPhase2mGroup2m0353297 _273 SECRETARY SHINSEKI: aha mere Slidei 0h, I?m sorry. Well, we?re Only 12 minutas -0ver and we?ve one meta slid?i I gUQSSithatis all right; Well, Sir} Obviaugiy the things we have in moving forward are t0 finish up the iDO_percent censtructien documents.and that us ts get t0 that firm fixed pri?e as Quiakiy as we can. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Gmadg MR. MILSTEN: Of courae, we?re watking on implementing the activation plan ?nd actually fihaiiZing amd flashing all of that mutt The divestiture, the existing f?sility conti?u?s to be one of the things we?ll study few years. We have some time with that aetivityi And tQ.identify additional activities that we nead'ta use t0 clase.the gap. There are Some-major aenstruction andjminor construction that are in.the Gut yefrg'that we may have to make Sure that they?re in the process far. And with that. RUDE COURT REPORTING 706 Duke Straet, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 thna (703} 519n7180 Fax 519w?190 AF2272-0273 AF2272.0273 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353298 374 SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Stay, let me just go araunthhe room. Comments? The back raw? Anything tD-add back here? Historical talks, amything aver that?? Dawn at the end of the table here? SPEAKER: No, air. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Bill? LEVAY: NO, sir. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: YQUI name?s been up here on those MR. LEVAY: I?m aware 0f itt {Laughter} MS, ROFF: Yau were so you got {inaudible}. MR. SCHOENHARD: 1 just wanted t9 thank Lynette-and it?S goed to have Ralph'hetef th-has given great leaderghip through these twiStS and turns and take-all me through this? MS. ROFF: It?s an exciting process, SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Lynette; anything.else? MS: RGFF: No mate. SPEAKER: Nathing, Sir. SPEAKER: No, sir. ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Streat, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phona ?703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0274 AF2272.0274 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353299 375 SPEAKER: NO, Sir. MS. ANDERSON: I owe yam-a'reapange'on the minor piece. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Yes. MS. ANDERSON: But that.will Game-quickly. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Okay. MS. ROFF: Goad responae, Phillipa. (Laughter) SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Stationg Galina, WhO?var?s still up on the Net; any Cemme?ts t0 add} questions to aak? Camplaints? Gkay. good. Deputy? MR. GOULD: Tust a quidk GHE.QH how We actu?lly tr?ck the riskg aSsociated-with the :emediation. For over 300,000 Square feet. it?g a pretty big number and how we track it through the budget proceas where each one of theae whgre it aeams like an-option now cauld disappea? in the prmcaaS later and we?re left with that Shartfall. but ism?: remediated. How d0 we traak that ris<.i? ?erma @f.?3r ability ?e Serv& veterans in the future? ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Streat, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phona ?703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0275 AF2272.0275 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353390 usvgeg?lzj??fl? 376 MR. GIGLIDTTI: Well, at the VISN level} we track ?hat with the SEEP submiseie'nf and, so, we keep MR. GOULD: Over and ever again. MS. RUFF: Every year. MR. GOULD: Keep building it up. MR. GIGLIOTTI: .As you?re involved in-the Genree of time; it doesn?t get funded by'the virtue of the fact that funds are so limited. MR. GOULD: Right. MR. GIGLIOTTI: Then What happene? 'What heppe?e operationally? MS. Well, operatie?ally, you prdbably Stert leeking at a number Of things: One, we?re all looking at increased hours. That won?t take care of it ell. You would get leaees, which just trades Capital dollare to operating dollars and that?g net the beat eolutien, but it?s the one-that we?ve Heed in the peat. MR. GOULD: Yea. Geod,?thank you. ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0276 AF2272.0276 DenvermPhese2mGroup2m03533i)?1 .277 SECRETARY SHINSEKI: I j?st reiterate, well, first 0f all, thank yen very'mueh beih Ralph and Lynette. Very eempreheneive. Long and ii?b semetinyes 'peinful because it?s long, but it?e juet a It?e complex, large prejeete are complex? If we want to be better-at it, you just get to get in there, tell your Sleevee.up, dig around, and _make sure that what we come out With ie a that lU years from new, if we don?t execu?e amether.majer heepitel prejeet for l5 ye re, that when'we have'that 'Qppertunity, people will have benefitted from thief and What-we went ie it eeuld be adjueted; but it'neede 'te be baseline on how we approach this enginess 0 'majer Genetruetien. So, I?ll end where I began, aed that-was out .Qf'this process, the taek lists are imperteet, but what we need ie what is thie the learned, What are we going to do ebeut changing .b?havie: or Changing procese so we?re'better having gene-threugh thie than we were befere we ete?ted*the RUDE COURT REPORTING 706 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703} 519n7180 Fax Sig ?190 AF2272-0277 AF2272.0277 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353392 USvgeg?lzf??fl? 373 first Set Of meetinge. And we?re abeutf I den't knew hallway through. MR. In terms-of the meetinQS? SPERKER: Yes. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Abeut helfwey-threughi Net quite? Maybe 40 percent of the way through, ahd, see we-need to start beginning te feeue On what is it that we Learned out of this and Wha? are We leekinq at in terme of Changes to our process? Refining our We?re going :0 have to defend thie at eeme point and I went to be eure that it ien?t One of we.have'te wait until the end and we ge:.the queseecn before we?re ready to Speak. We need te be in the as we move towards whatever these final deeisiens and recommendatiene are_geing-te be that we are making incremental deeisiens that give_ue Same Sense ef.where we?re headed, even though we etill have ether meetings ta complete. WE?re geing ?e be threueh the major censtructien projects here in a couple mee?inge. ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0278 AF2272.0278 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353393 379 MR. Two meetinga. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: Two.m0re.meetings; and? we_3hould have an if Someone Wauld-ask what are we thinking about, wa have, I thinkI t0.start to sealesce our thoughta, even as we?re getting t0 some final process. Okay? Se} let?s net wait.until the and of June and then begin bringing Qur thaughts tegether. We to sta?t that new, I d0n?t knaw when the question wilL.be aSked; but it will be &sked, and we need to be ready to a?swer it; Okay? And my campiimentg again. MS. RGFF: Well, thank yam +n SECRETARY SHINSEKE: Thanks er th?'ge?d. rundown; and I appreciate mu M34 ROFF: "m it?s a team-effart for Everybody. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: It?s the secend'time I?ve.heard thiS. MS: ROFF: SECRETARY SHINSEKII Ahd ltf?'b?tter tha? the last time, and it?g not because'yeu changed the ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Streat, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phona ?703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0279 AF2272.0279 DenvermPhase2mGroup2m0353394 380 pfaSEntatian, it?s juSt I understand more and just told you; there?S a lot of learning that goea an, and thatfs-thg truth far all of mg; why'WQ want tO'gQ through this and we want tm'capture it, put it in the process. Gkay, thank you, all, very much, very helpful: RGFF: Thank yen. SECRETARY SHINSEKI: See you at the-next seS?ionb (Whereupon, at 6:14 p.m1r the PRGCEEDINGS were adjourned.) ANDERSQN COURT REPURTENS ?06 Duke Streat, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phona ?703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272-0280 AF2272.0280 DerivermPhase2mGroup2m0353395 CERTIFICATE OF NOTARY PUBLIC DISTRICT OF CQLUMBIA I, Stephen K. Garland, notary public in and re: the District 0f Columbia, do hereby certify that the was duly and thereafter reduced t0 print under my direction; that-the witnesses TEIE sworn t0 tell the truth under-penalty of perjury; that said transcript is a hf the testimony given by witnesses; that I am neither Chunsel for, related to, nor empleyed.by shy at the parties to the action in which this proceeding was called; and, furthermore, that I am?nat.a relative-6r empleyee'ef any atterney Or counSel'empleyed.by the parties-hereto, nor financially er otherwise interested in the outcome at this aetien. {Signature and Seal on File) Netary Public, in and fer the Distriet 0f Celumhia. My Commission Expires: May 31, 28l4 ANDERSQN COURT T06 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519m?180 Fax AF2272.0281