Case Document 1-4 Filed 08/14/15 Page 1 of 19 Exhibit Case Document 1-4 Filed 08/14/15 Page 2 of 19 B-02979 8/12/2015 - Condensed Transcript Prepared by: SEC Friday, August 14, 2015 is? 1, 13V fag? {5 egg :0 \vu? 532?,? Av% 9. Case Document 1-4 Filed 08/14/15 Page 3 of 19 Page 1 Page 3 1 THE UNITED STATES secuearies AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION 1 2 2 3 In the Matter of: 3 WITNESS: 4 Fite No. 4 Carlos Garza 4 5 GAW MINERS, LLC 5 6 6 EXHIBITS: IDENTIFIED: 7 WITNESS: Carlos Garza 7 No. 95 Subpoena 22 8 PAGES: 1 through 66 8 No. 96 Emails 42 9 PLACE: Securities and Exchange Commission 9 10 Boston District Of?ce 10 11 33 Arch Street 12 Suite 2300 12 13 Boston, Massachusetts 13 14 DATE: Wednesday, August 12, 2015 '14 15 15 16 The above?entitled matter came on for hearing, 16 17 pursuant to notice, at 9:Diversi?ed Reporting Services, Inc. 24 25 (202) 46743200 25 Page 2 Page 4 1APPEARANCES: 1 PROCEEDINGS 2 2 MS. SHIELDS: We're on the record at 9:38 am. 3 On behalf of the Securities and Exchange Commission: 3 on August 12, 2015. 4 KATHLEEN SHIELDS, Trial Attorney 4 BY MS. SHIELDS: 5 GRETCHEN LUNDGREN, Counsel, Enforcement Division 5 Would you raise your right?hand please? 6 Securities and Exchange Commission 6 A Yes, ma?am. 7 Division of Enforcement 7 Do you swear to teil the truth, the whoie 8 33 Arch Street 8 truth, and nothing but the truth? 9 Suite 2300 9 A Yes, ma?am. 10 Boston, MA 02108 10 Whereupon, 11 (617) 573?8900 11 CARLOS GARZA 12 12 was catled as a witness and, having been ?rst duly 13 On behalf of the Witness: 13 sworn, was examined and testi?ed as follows: 14 CARLOS GARZA, PRO SE 14 EXAMINATION 15 15 BY MS. SHEELDS: 16 16 Wouid you please identify yourself for the 17 1? record. 18 18 A My name is Cartos Garza. 19 19 You can put your hand down now. 20 20 And where do you live, sir? 21 21 A I live at 136 Hillcrest Terrance in 22 22 Brattleboro, Vermont. 23 23 MS. I?m Kathy Shields and this is 24 24 Gretchen Lundgren, and together for this proceeding we're 25 25 of?cers of the Commission. 1 2/201 Pages 1 4 Case Document 1-4 Filed 08/14/15 Page 4 of 19 Page 5 Page 7 1 What that means is that the Commission has 1 questions may incriminate you in a criminal matter. 2 authorized us to take testimony in these proceedings and 2 Are you asserting your rights under the Fifth 3 to request that people come in and provide documents to 3 Amendment to refuse to answer substantive questions? 4 us, as well as oral testimony. 4 A l?m extremely frightened with this situation. 5 A Yes, ma'am. 5 idon't understand this type of law. We never dealt 6 BY MS. SHIELDS: 6 with anything like this. l'm more than wilting to 7 Before the record opened we showed you copies 7 compiy, but I'd have to have an attorney present. 8 of two documents in this case. One is our Nonpublic 8 can't afford one at this time. 9 Order of investigation, and that is this document here, 9 So, you're not interested at this time in 10 and the other is Exhibit 1 in this matter, which is the 10 asserting your Fifth Amendment rights against 11 Form 1862. Do you have any questions that you?d 11 self-incrimination? 12 like to ask us on the record? 12 A i don?t understand the Fifth Amendment rights. 13 A i don't. i don't understand them, but i have 13 l'm very frightened. i?m very scared. I don?t know what 14 seen them. 14 the SEC is, or what they do. i'rn more than willing to 15 Just to give you a little bit of background 15 comply, but l'd have to have attorney present. I can't 16 here, this is an investigation by the United States 16 afford one right now. 17 Securities and Exchange Commission in the matter of SAW 1? Why don't we take it on a question-by-question 18 Minors LLC, it is our ?ie No. 8-2979, and our 18 basis? You've stated a couple of times that you're very 19 investigation is to determine whether there have been any 19 scared. What is it that your scared of? 20 violations of the federal securities laws, or any other 20 A l'rn very frightened. I don't understand this 21 provisions of the laws that the SEC enforces. 21 type of law. I want to help in any way can, but l'd 22 However, facts that we develop in this investigation 22 have to have an attorney present, and this time i can?t 23 might constitute viotations of other federal, state, 23 afford one. 24 civil or criminal laws. 24 Okay. So, what frightens you? 25 Understanding that you have not consulted with 25 A l'm realty nervous. As you can see, l?m Page 8 Page 8 1 an attorney, are you nonetheless prepared to answer 1 shaking. i don't understand this type of taw. don't 2 questions today? 2 even know what the SEC deats in. reatly want to help 3 don't understand this type of law. l'm very 3 and put this behind us, but l?d have to have an attorney 4 scared. l?m willing to come back and speak with an 4 present and i can't afford one at this time. 5 attorney, but I can't afford an attorney at this time, so 5 So, in other words, if I ask you questions 6 you guys wouid have to appoint me an attorney. 6 about your involvement with Josh Garza, and with GAW 7 A Just so you know, the appointment of counsel is 7 Miners, i understand that you did work for GAW Miners for 8 not something that we are able to do. This is a civil 8 a number of months; is that correct? 9 proceeding and not a criminal proceeding and so there are 9 A i don't understand this type of iaw. i'm very 10 no funds available. We don't, typically, as a matter of it) nervous answering any questions. i'm more than wiiling 11 course, appoint counsel for anyone. 11 to help out, but l?d have to have an attorney present and 12 if you?re interested'in retaining your own 12 i can?t afford one at this time. 13 attorney you are, of course, free to do that. I do 13 Let me just get this straight. You're refusing 14 understand that you've asked for a coupie of extensions 14 to even answer questions concerning whether you worked 15 of this date in order to retain an attorney; is that 15 for the company; is that your position today? 16 correct? 18 A l'm very scared. ldon't understand this type 17 A i think you gave me a total of two weeks of 17 of law. l'm willing to comply, but l?d have to have an 18 extensions. i don't understand this type of law. Like 18 attorney present. As I said, i can't afford one at this 19 said, I'm very scared. l'm wiiling to compty in any way 19 time. 20 necessary, but l'd have to have an attorney present, and 20 Let me tell you what is necessary if you're 21 at this time, i can't afford one. 21 interested in complying. What is necessary is that you 22 There is a provision in the United States 22 provide us full, truthfut, and accurate testimony unless 23 Constitution called the Fifth Amendment and that provides 23 you assert your Fifth Amendment rights not to do so. 24 that a witness has the right to refuse to answer 24 Attorneys are not appointed in this proceeding. 25 questions when you believe that your answer to those 25 You've had since the date we issued the subpoena which [8/12/2015] Pages 5 - 8 Case Document 1-4 Filed 08/14/15 Page 5 of 19 Page 9 Page 11 1 was June 30th, in order to get an attorney and you 1 means we can file lawsuits against people. We can seek 2 haven't done so; is that correct? 2 remedies like injunctions, money damages, bars from the 3 A l?rn very scared. i don't understand, these 3 industry, and various other orders from the court that 4 type of questions, this type of iaw at all. i want to 4 would prohibit people from acting in a certain way in the 5 hetp, but l'd have to have an attorney present. I cent 5 future. 6 afford one at this time, but if i were to get appointed 6 We do share, on occasion, information with 7 counset, or retain counsei, then l?d absolutety come back 7 criminai authorities, so information that you may provide 8 and help. 8 to us may be transmitted to criminal authorities, but, 9 BY MS. LUNDGREN: 9 we, ourselves, are not a criminal authority. That means 10 Mr. Garza, has somebody instructed you to 10 that we have no authority to ask that people be 11 provide that answer to us today? 11 incarcerated, or punished in a criminai fashion, for any 12 A l?m extremely scared. These are my feelings. 12 misconduct. 13 i don't understand this type of law. This is my lack of 13 Let me tel! you something else, the questions 14 knowledge. i'rn more than to heip, but l'd have 14 we're going to be asking you today, if you choose to 15 to have an attorney present. And as I stated, I can't 15 answer them, relate to your employment at GAW Miners LLC 16 afford one at this time. 16 where I understand that you were employed for a number of 17 Why do you believe that you need to understand 1? months. That is the subject matter on which we'd like to 18 Securities Laws in order to answer historical and 18 question you today; do you understand that? 19 factually based questions that we have for you today? 19 A I'm extremely frightened. i don?t understand 20 A My footings are I'm just scared in this 20 this type of iaw at all. You know, i want to help, i?m 21 situation. i don't understand this type of law. Because 21 eager to help, but to have to have an attorney, and as 22 of that reason i really want to help out and comply in 22 said, i can't afford one at this time. I'm very 23 any way necessary, but l'd have to have an attorney 23 frightened. 24 present, and i just can?t afford one at his time. 24 Okay. You've got two choices here. You've got 25 BY MS. 25 the choice of hiring your own attorney, because one is Page 10 Page 12 1 Do you have any reasonable likelihood of being 1 not going to be appointed to you. Or, you have the 2 able to afford an attorney in the next three weeks? 2 choice to invoke your Fifth Amendment rights against 3 A At this time I can't afford an attorney. if i 3 selfnincrimination. You don't have the choice to refuse 4 was to be appointed one, I could absolutely come back 4 to answer our questions. That is what it means that we 5 under his counsel, or her counsel, and answer any 5 have subpoena power. it means we can bring you here and 6 questions they say i shoutd. I cannot afford one at this 6 we're entitled to answers to our questions. Do you 7 time. 7 understand that? 8 Okay. Welt, let me tell you this. There are 8 A I don't understand this type of law. For very 9 no appointed counset in our proceedings, so my question 9 frightened. 10 to you is do you think that in the next three weeks, if 10 Forget about this type of law; do you 11 we were to give you another two or three weeks to come 11 understand what i just said to you? 12 back, that you could retain your own counsel? 12 A i don't understand. 13 A i just don't understand this type of law and at 13 t'm going to try again. You have two choices. 14 this current time, I can't afford an attorney. If I were 14 We can agree that in two weeks or three weeks you wiil go 15 to be appointed one, i coutd absolutely come back because 15 out and ?nd your own attorney and come back here with 18 I'm more than willing to help out. l'm gust very 16 that person, and with the counsel of that person, answer 17 frightened of this situation. I've never dealt with 17 our questions, or, you can assert your Fifth Amendment 18 something tike this in my life. I'm not familiar with 18 right not to answer the questions i ask you today. 19 the SEC, but, t'm wilting to help if i were to be 19 A i don't understand. l?d have to retain counsel 20 appointed counsel. 20 and take his or her advice and then i'd be more than 21 Well, let me tell you a couple of things that 21 willing to come back, and under that counsel, be able to 22 may ease your mind. 22 do as he or she advises. 23 The SEC is a civil enforcement agency. We 23 Do you intend to retain your own counsel? Do 24 don?t take criminai actions. What we are able to do is 24 you have funds that woutd make it feasibie for you to 25 to take a variety of actions in the civii context. That 25 retain your own counsei? [8/12/2015] Pages 9 12 Case Document 1-4 Filed 08/14/15 Page 6 of 19 Page 13 Page 15 1 A At this time i cannot afford an attorney, but 1 come back, absolutely. 2 if you guys woutd appoint me one, then 1 would absolutely 2 Did you work at GAW Miners LLC at any point in 3 come back and help out in any way that he or she 3 time in 2014? 4 instructs me to. 4 A i'm extremely afraid, and l'm scared. i don't 5 l?m telling you we don't have funds to have 5 understand this type of law at all. We never dealt 6 counsel appointed for you. 6 with it, or anything like it. l'm eager to help out, but 7 A i don?t understand this type of law at all. it 7 you guys would have to appoint me an attorney because at 8 just scares me. 8 this time i can't afford one. 9 Are you going to have funds in the next two or 9 Did you understand the question ljust asked 10 three weeks to retain your own counset? 10 you, whether you were employed at any point at GAW Miners 11 A At this time 1 cannot afford counsel. 11 in 2014?? 12 Are you on any medication today that would 12 A l'm extremely scared, kind of intimidated by 13 impair you from giving true and accurate testimony? 13 this situation to be honest. I would be eager to help 14 A i don?t understand this type of law. l'm eager 14 out if the counsel that you guys appointed to me told me 15 to help out in any way i can, but l'm very scared right 15 to answer questions, i would absotutely answer questions, 16 now. As you can hear, my voice is shaking. If you guys 16 and help in any way that i could. 17 were to appoint me counsel, then I would come back under 17 Let me tell you what is going to happen next. 18 that counsel and i would answer any questions that he or 18 We are going to the court and ask the court for an order 19 she advises. Right now, l'm very frightened. 19 that is going to compel you to answer these questions. 20 Other than being frightened, is there any 20 We have, as I?ve shown you, a Formal Order in this case 21 reason you couldn't provide true and accurate testimony 21 and that order entitles us to take testimony from members 22 today? 22 of the public in connection with our investigations; do 23 A I don't understand this type of law. i'm eager 23 you understand what 1'vejust told you? 24 to help in answering any questions if i had an attorney. 24 A 1 don?t understand this type of law. 25 At this time, 1 can't afford an attorney, but if you guys 25 Let's forget about this type of law. Do you Page 14 Page 16 1 would appoint me one i'd absolutely come back and do as 1 understand what We just told you, that this formal 2 he or she instructs. 2 order that l've provided to you enables Gretchen and to 3 Are you related to Homero Joshua Garza? 3 ask questions of members of the public in connection with 4 A i don't understand this type of law. l'm very 4 our investigations? 5 scared. l?m eager to hetp in any way 1 can, but it would 5 A At this point, t'm even more intimidated but 6 have to be under advice of counsel. 1 can't afford 6 l'm eager to help. i would just have to have an attorney 7 counsel at this time, so you guys would have to appoint 7 present. i can?t afford one at this time, but if you 8 me counsel. 8 guys appointed me one i would come back with the counsel. 9 Let me get this straight, you're refusing to 9 Appointing counsel in this context is not 10 answer even the question of are you related to Homero 10 something we can do. 1 think l've told you that a couple 11 Joshua Garza? 11 of time. Do you understand that? 12 A I don't understand this type of law. it 12 A l?m not familiar with this type of law. 13 frightens me very much so. 1 never deatt with anything 13 don't understand, but i am eager to help. 14 -- i don?t know who the SEC is, what you guys deal in. 14 Do you understand what l'm saying to you when 15 l?m eager to help though, but I'd have to have an 15 l'm telling you that we don't appoint counsel for peopte? 16 attorney present. At this time, i can't afford one so 16 A l'm extremely frightened with this situation 17 you guys would have to appoint me one. 17 because l'm ignorant to kind of atl aspects of it, but i 18 You're refusing to tell us even whether someone 18 do know that i want to help. if you guys appointed me 19 is your brother, and that doesn't require any 19 counsel, then i would absolutety come back under that 20 understanding of the federal securities taws; is that 20 counsel and answer any questions. 21 right? 21 Did someone tell you to provide the responses 22 A l?m very scared. I don?t understand why I'm 22 that you?re providing today? 23 here today. i don't understand the questions. l?m eager 23 A l'm extremely frightened. This situation 24 to help, but I?d have to have an attorney present and 24 lntimidates me. A government agency, which i believe you 25 can?t afford one, but, if you guys appoint the one I will 25 guys are, intimidates me, but t'm eager to help, but [8/12/2015] Pages 13? 16 Case Document 1-4 Filed 08/14/15 Page 7 of 19 Page 17 woutd just feel more comfortable and safe if i had counsel, and, i can't afford counsel at this time. What efforts have you made to obtain your own counsel? A I'm frightened. i can't afford counsel at this time, but if you guys apportioned me, then i wouid absolutely come back with that appointed counsei, and i would do as he or she instructs. The question I asked you is what efforts have you made since June 30th when you received the subpoena, or, July 1st when you received the subpoena, to obtain counsel? A At this time i can't afford counsel, but if you guys were to appoint it for me, then would absoluteiy come back. l'm more than willing to comply in any way necessary. Mr. Garza, in response to a number of my questions you've provided basically the same answer that Page 19 (Off the Record from 9:55 am. to 9:57 am.) MS. SHIELDS: We?re back on the record. it is 9:57 am. BY MS. Mr. Garza, would you con?rm for us that during the brief break we took we didn?t have any discussions of substance about this case while off the record; is that correct? A Okay. During the time between when we were off I?m sorry, don?t understand. the record, and came back on the record, neither Gretchen nor i asked you any questions; is that fair? A i know this may sound silly to you guys, because you're educated on this type of taw, i just don't know what type of questions to answer. Like i said, i'm just very ignorant on this and it frightens me. This is a very simple question. Between the time i told the court reporter we went off the record, 19 you're scared, and frightened, and don't understand this 19 and when told her we were coming back on the record, 20 area of law and so you're not going to answer our 20 did i ask you anything at alt? 21 questions. Is that the same response you'il give to any 21 A i feel kind of intimidated just because i don't 22 question I ask you today? 22 know what questions to answer and I just feel i wouid 23 A I'm scared. I?m frightened. i want to help. 23 feel safer if I had an attorney present tojust that 241 can't afford counsel, but if you guys appoint me 24 knew this type of law and could instruct me on how to 25 counsel then i can absolutely come back under the advice 25 answer. i know that may sound silly to you, but i am Page 18 . Page 20 1 of that counsel, and i?d be more than witling to do as he 1 scared of this situation. 2 or she instructs. 2 i'm going to make a statement for the record, 3 What i?m going to ask you is a fairty 3 and then I'm going to ask you if you agree with me, or, 4 question. it requires a yes, or, no answer and not that 4 not, okay? 5 recitat. 5 l?rn representing for the record that between 6 if i ask you any question today, are you 6 the time we went off the record and when we came back on, 7 basically going to say that same thing instead of 7 i didn't say anything to you. Do you agree with that 8 answering substantivety? 8 statement? 9 A l?m just scared to be honest. i don?t know 9 A Would you answer a question of mine? 10 what to answer because i don?t know this type of taw at 10 i can try. 11 all. l?m scared because I want to help you guystrouble for answering that 12 woutd just have to have an attorney and i can't afford an 12 question? 13 attorney. 13 What do you mean my 'in troubie?? 14 What we want you to tell us is the truth. Is 14 A i just don't understand this type of law. 15 that scary to you? 15 I?m asking you what happened in this room. 16 A I don't understand this type of law at ail. 16 That can't possibly get you into trouble. 1? don't understand what you guys deal in, but i do 17 A You're stating that it can't get me into 18 understand that i want to help, but in order for me to 18 trouble? 19 help i would feel way more safe and comfortable if I had 19 For saying what happened in this room between 20 an attorney and as i said, i can't afford one right now. 20 us? 21 But, if you guys appointed me one then I would absolutely 21 A i know you're iaughing, but it is just scary to 22 come back with that counsel and I would instructs. 23 Why are you scared? 24 MS. SHIELDS: We'll go off the record for a few 24 A i don't understand this type of law. i've 25 minutes. It is now 9:55 and we're off the record. 25 never been in this situation before. i'm eager to help [8/12/2015] Pages 17 20 Case Document 1-4 Filed 08/14/15 Page 8 of 19 Page 21 Page 23 1 and t'm scared. i can't afford an attorney, but if i had 1 frightens me, just the questions that you're asking. As 2 one i'd be more than wilting to help in whatever way they 2 i said I don?t know what to answer and what not to 3 said i shouid. 3 answer. For that reason, i'd feel a lot more safe and 4 Did someone threaten you if you spoke with us? 4 comfortabte if I had an attorney. 1 can't afford an 5 A l?m very intimidated right now. i don't 5 attorney at this time, so you guys would have to appoint 6 understand the type of questions that you guys are 6 me one. 7 asking, what you guys deal in. As i said, I?m wanting to 7 When you say you don't know what kinds of 8 comply with you guys but i would have to have counsel but 8 questions to answer, and what kinds of questions not to 9 at this time I can?t afford it, so you would have to 9 answer, what do you mean by that? 10 appoint it for me. 10 A don?t understand this type of law at alt. 11 i understand that you don't understand the 11 I've never dealt with anything like this. For that 12 federal securities taws but the questions that i'm going 12 reason, it frightens me and would feel much better, 13 to ask you today focus on things that you personatly did, 13 personally, if i had an attorney present to represent me. 14 or said, or heard, or, witnessed. 14 As 1 stated ijust can?t afford one at this 15 A i don't understand this type of few. 15 time, but if you guys appointed me one l'd be more than 16 Okay. Put aside the law. What i'm going to be 16 happy to come back and answer questions under his or her 17 asking you about today are the facts, things that you, 17 guidance. 18 personally, were involved in. Do you understand that? 18 Did someone telt you that they would impose 19 A This situation scares me, it frightens me a 19 some kind of consequence on you if you came here and 20 lot. t'm eager to hetp, as stated, but I would have to 20 answered our questions today? 21 be appointed counsel by you guys because i can?t afford 21 A Pro very frightened of this situation with the 22 it as this time. 22 SEC and you guys, because don't understand this type of 23 is your brother Josh Garza? 23 law. This type of law intimidates me on a personat 24 A l'rn very scared right now. I?ve never dealt 24 level, so i would be more than happy, and lwiil answer 25 with anything tike this. I'm eager to help but you guys 25 any questions, i?m wiiling to comply, i want to come P899 22 Page 24 1 would have to appoint me counsel because at this time 1 back, but i'd have to have counsel, and you guys would 2 cannot afford it. 2 have to appoint it to me. But, as soon as you guys 3 The residence where you currentiy life, 136 3 appoint me counsel, 1 wilt come back and twill do 4 Hiilcrest Terrace, is that a residence that your bother 4 whatever he or she advises me to do. 5 owns? 5 Who made threats against you if you were to 6 A i don't understand this type of iaw. For that 6 tatk to us substantively today? 7 reason it frightens me. i want to hetp, and i feel 7 A i am more than wiiling to comply with you guys. 8 that's been, you know, something i want to do, but i just 8 This just scares me, and would feel much more 9 can't afford an attorney, so you guys would have to 9 comfortable if i had an attorney present that is educated 1O appoint me an attorney. to on this type of iaw and that could advise me on the 11 (SEC Exhibit No. 95 was marked 11 proceedings. 12 for identi?cation.) 12 The document that placed before you, when was 13 BY MS. SHIELDS: 13 the ?rst time that you saw it? 14 Mr. Garza, i'm piecing before you Exhibit 95. 14 A As i said, this situation frightens me. Ijust 15 is that a copy of a subpoena that you received in this 15 would feel more comfortable, and [want to help, and I'm 16 matter? 16 very willing to comply, but l'd have to have an attorney 17 A i don?t understand exactly what type of law 17 present. At this time i can't afford one, so you guys 18 this deals in. ltjust frightens me. i know it sounds 18 would have to appoint me one. 19 silly to you guys, but i would just feel more comfortable 19 i asked you when you ?rst saw this document, 20 if I had an attorney. 20 that doesn't require any understanding of the law, sir. 21 l'm not asking you about the type of law, l'm 21 A As i stated, I'm pretty intimidated, l?m pretty 22 asking you is this a document you got in the mail. 22 scared, and 1 would just feel better it! had an attorney 23 A Yes, ma'arn. 23 present to advise me on this situation. I can't afford 24 When did you get it? 24 one right now. 25 A i don't understand this type of iaw. it 25 Have you ever seen Exhibit 95 before today? [8/12/2015] Pages 21 24 .- Case Document 1-4 Filed 08/14/15 Page 9 of 19 Page 25 Page 27 1 A This situation, in and of itself, realty i Before today?s testimony, did you send me an 2 intimidates me and frightens me. I?ve never dealt with 2 e-mail basically representing that you didn't have these 3 anything like this in my life. t'm not familiar with the 3 documents because you no longer have access to the 4 SEC, i'm not familiar with this type of iaw. i am eager 4 computer that you used when you worked at GAW Miners? 5 to help in any way that I can but would have to have an 5 A I know it sounds silly to you guys, can tail. 6 attorney present and you guys would have to appoint me 6 don?t mean to disrespect in any way, but this situation 7 one because i can?t afford one at this time. 7 frightens me. l'rn not educated on this type of law. t?m 8 i'm going to turn to page 6 of the attachment 8 not educated about what you guys deal in. For that 9 to Exhibit 95the top, 9 reason, I feel, personally, that it is in my best 10 'Heading it says, 'Documents to be produced.? Do you 10 interest to retain counsel. I can't afford counsel at 11 see that, sit?? 11 this time, but if you guys were to appoint me counset, 12 A I don't understand this type of law, and 12 would absolutely come back and answer any questions that 13 answering your questions intimidates me. I will be more 13 he or she tells me to. don?t mean to disrespect you 14 than wilting to comply in any way necessary but i wouid 14 guys. I?m eager to heip. genuiner am. But, I'm 15 have to have an attorney present and can't afford one 15 scared as you can see. am frightened. i'll do 16 at this time. 16 anything to heip you guys, butjust appoint me counsei 17 What about answering a questioncan come back under his or her guidance. 18 this heading, intimidates you? 18 Let me just try the question again, 19 A know it sounds silly but I don?t know exactly 19 Before testimony today, last week, or the week 20 the power of the SEC, and I'm not educated on that. 20 before, did you send me an e-mait saying that you didn?t 21 don't know what it deals in, and for that reason, it 21 have any of the documents requested in Category C, 22 intimidates me. 22 because you no longer had access to your GAW Miners? 23 But, as I said, i'm more than willing to comply 23 computer? 24 and help out in any way possible to my abitities as tong 24 A Again 1 don?t mean to disrespect you Ms. 25 as i have an attorney present. 1 can?t afford an 25 Shields, 1 don?t mean to frustrate you, but liust feel Page 26 Page 28 1 attorney right now, so you guys would have to appoint me 1 very uncomfortable answering your questions just because 2 one. 2 ldon?t know what this situation entails. ldon?t 3 Are you on any drugs or medication today? 3 understand why I'm here exactly and I would prefer to 4 A This situation intimidates me. Your questions 4 have counsel to guide me through it. 5 intimidate me. My lack of knowledge, you know, is scary 5 As 1 said, i'm very wiiling to comply. i will 6 for this situation. i'm eager to help out but l'd have 6 come back and wiil help in any way necessary, but you 7 to have an attorney to help advise me. 7 guys would have to appoint me counsel because I can't 8 Did you do anything to look for the documents 8 afford counsel at this time. 9 that are listed in category on Exhibit No. 95, and the 9 So, you're refusing to answer about whether you 10 list of documents requested is on pages 6, 7 and 8. Did 10 sent me an ewmaii about two weeks ago in connection with 11 you do anything to look for those materials? 11 the subpoena? 12 A Yes, ma?am. 12 A Again, Ms. Shields, 1 don't mean to frustrate 13 Okay. What did you do to look fortitose 13 you and i don?t mean to upset you. l'mjustscared. I?m 14 materials? 14 very frightened right now. I don't understand the 15 A I didn't reain have to took because this 15 situation and that intimidates me. I hope that guys can 16 situation intimidates me. knew I didn't have any 16 understand, but, as I stated, I am more than willing to 17 documents. And i'm willing to comply and heip, but to 17 come back and help if you guys appointed me counsei. 18 have to have an attorney present. 18 0 Being scared is not a reason not to answer our 19 How was it that you knew that you didn't have 19 questions, sir. You?ve got two choices. You can either 20 A feel intimidated, you know, and kind of 20 answer them, or you can assert your Fifth Amendment right 21 scared by your questions. As said, I'd come back and 21 not to answer our questions for fear that your answers 22 help answer any questions to my ability but I'd have to 22 might incriminate yourself. Those are your choices. 23 have an attorney present. I can?t afford one, so, if you 23 Teliing me you?rejust scared isn't a vaiid response to 24 guys would appoint me one I would absoluteiy come back 24 the questions that I'm asking you. Do you understand 25 and answer questions that he or she advises me. 25 that, sir? 1 2/201 5] GARZAWCARLOSMZO150812 Pages 25 - 28 Case Document 1-4 Filed 08/14/15 Page 10 of 19 Page 29 Page 31 1 A absotutely don't understand this type of law. 1 in my best interest to have an attorney present on my 2 woutd feel much more comfortabie if i had counsel to 2 behalf, and as I stated, 1 can?t afford one but if you 3 advise me. This scares me. This situation scares me and 3 guys would appoint me one, then i would be eager to help 4 What about this situation scares you? 4 answer any questions. 5 A i'm very ignorant on his type of law, on what 5 What is your personal e-mail addresses, how 6 you guys deal in, it is very intimidating to me. I don?t 6 should we get in contact with you? 7 know what you guys deai in. For that reason it frightens 7 A This type of iaw i'm just not familiar with. 8 me, but as 1 stated, I'm very eager to help. I want to 8 Again, Ms. Shields, 1 don't mean to disrespect you ma'arn. 9 heip. I'd iove to put this behind me but i'd have to 9 i'm eager to help you both and answer any questions to 10 have counsel, and you guys would have to appoint it to me 10 the best of my ability but i would have to have an 11 because I can't afford it at this time. 11 attorney present. ijust feet that's in my best interest 12 And We toid you a couple of times, sir, do 12 with my tack of knowledge. can?t afford an attorney 13 you understand that appointing counsei is not an option 13 come back with that appointed attorney. 14 in this proceeding. 14 We?ve had several rounds of e?mail 15 A apologize for my ignorance, but ijust don't 15 communications; is that correct? 16 understand this type of law at all. 16 A (No repiy.) 17 BY MS. LUNDGREN: 17 Particulariy concerning the schedule for 18 Mr. Garza, during the six week period you had 18 today's date. is that true? Were you the person i was 19 between receiving our subpoena and appearing here today, 19 corresponding with by e?mail? 20 did you make any attempt by going on the pubiicly 20 A I know this sounds silly. This intimidates me, 21 available SEC.gov website to learn what the SEC does, or 21 as 1 stated. 22 taik to anybody about this? 22 On my address 1 think if we needed to converse, 23 A I don't understand this type of law and at this 23 of get a hoid of me, that you could mail me something, 24 time i just can't afford counsel, but if you guys were to 24 especially, if you guys are appointing me an attorney. 25 appoint me an attorney, then i would absolutely return 25 That way i could come back eagerly to help out in any way Page 30 Page 32 1 under his or her guidance and then i would come back and 1 that I can. 2 try to help out and with all of my ability. 2 So, if we want to communicate with you we 3 BY MS. SHEELDS: 3 should send mail to the 136 Hillcrest address in 4 Mr. Garza, are you presently working? 4 Brattieboro, Vermont? 5 A This situation kind of intimidates me. I would 5 A Can i get in trouble for answering that 6 feel more comfortabie if i had an attorney present to 6 question? 7 help with answering questions. 7 i'm asking you how we can communicate with you. 8 So, you're refusing to tell us even whether 8 A liust don't understand this type of law, and 9 you're currently employed? 9 answering different questions. I know this sounds silly 10 A At this time, i can't afford counsel, but as 10 because you guys are very educated on it, but i'm not. i 11 stated 1 want to help. t'm eager to put this behind me 11 didn?t learn about this in high school, but if you guys 12 but this situation frightens me so you guys would have to 12 were to appoint me an attorney that was educated on this 13 appoint me an attorney and then i would come with that 13 situation i could absolutely come back under his or her 14 counsel and help as he or she instructs. 14 guidance. 15 Mr. Garza, what is your fuli name? 15 During what period of time did you work at GAW 16 A Again, Ms. Shieids, i don't mean to be 16 Miners 17 disrespectful at all. i understand the importance of you 17 A This situation intimidates me. I'm just 18 guys, but i don?t understand this type of law at all. 18 frightened. i knew this sounds siily, but I would just 19 Understand that I am scared and that l?m eager 19 feel more comfortable ifl had an attorney present that 20 to help, but i would have to have an attorney present. 1 20 was educated on this situation and in what you guys work 21 hope that doesn't silly to you guys, but if you guys 21 and deal in. i will come back and lwiil absoiuteiy heip 22 appointed me an attorney then i woutd come back and 22 to the best she says, 23 wouid absolutely help by any means that they told me to. 23 because they would be advising. 24 How oid are you, sir? 24 Did you graduate from high schooi, sir? 25 A This situation intimidates me and i feel it is 25 A Ma?am, i really don?t mean to frustrate you, [8/12/2015] Pages 29 - 32 Case Document 1-4 Filed 08/14/15 Page 11 of 19 Page 33 Page 35 1 Ms. Shields, 1 want to work with both of you guys in any 1 rights. 2 way that i can. l'm just scared. This is a very scary 2 For that reason, i wouid feel much more 3 situation for me. We never deait with something like 3 comfortabie if I had an attorney present on my behalf 4 this in my life before. In order to put this behind me, 4 that understands that, that could better instruct me. i 5 I would feel that it is'in my best interest to have an 5 can't afford that attorney right now, so, if you guys 6 attorney that better understands these situations and 6 appointed me one would come back and answer any 7 can?t afford one right now, but, if you guys would 7 questions and try to put this behind us. 8 appoint me one then I wouid absolutely come back and heip 8 Let?s try this. You've said a couple of times 9 in any way that I can. 9 that you're frightened or you're scared. Is what your 10 BY MS. LUNDGREN: 10 frightened or scared of is being found criminally 11 For the record just want to state Mr. Garza, 11 responsible for some action? is that what you're 12 you, in some of your responses say, '1 don't want to 12 concerned about, or is it something eise? 13 frustrate you or upset you,? but for the record Ms. 13 A i don?t understand this type of law at all. 14 Shield's voice has been very calm, very quiet, not 14 i'm very ignorant to it. That's intimidating to me. For 15 expressing reaily any emotion at all. So, i don't take 15 that reason I feel that it would be in my best interest 16 it from your response that there is anything that we've 16 to have an attorney present who understands this type of 17 done physically that is indicating any frustration on our 17 law and that has my best interest where they could 18 part. We?ve been very calm, courteous, and respective to 18 instruct me on how to answer. 19 you not raising our voices to you. 19 And if you guys appointed me an attorney, I 20 A (No response.) 20 would absoluteiy come back. l'm eager to heip that can, and I don't mean to do not mean to be 22 to witnesses who wish to invoke their Fifth Amendment 22 disrespectful in any shape, or form, and, i think this 23 right not to testify. l'm going to ready this to you, 23 speaks to how serious l?m taking this situation. 24 and then l'll ask you if you have any questions about it, 24 Sir, i know that you've said a number of times 25 okay, sir? 25 that you don't mean to be disrespectful but the answers Page 34 Page 36 1 A 1 don't understand this type of law at ali. 1 that you're giving are simply not an option in a 2 Hear me out. This is fairiy standard, and it 2 proceeding like this; do you understand that? 3 is fairiy simply so that anyone can understand these 3 A I don't understand this type of law. 4 words, okay? 4 Okay. Let's leave aside 'this type of law.' 5 l?m not authorized to compet you to give 5 This is a proceeding in which the United States 6 evidence or testimony as to which you assert your 6 ask questions of people about things that they did in 7 privilege against seif-incrimination, and don?t intend 7 connection with GAW Miners. Are you with me so far. 8 to do so. if you tell me that you want to respond to my 8 A just don't understand this type of iaw and 9 questions by asserting your fifth amendment right because 9- would prefer an attorney that is working on my behalf, 10 you?re concerned that answering my questions might 10 that better understands this type of law to help guide 11 subject you to criminai l'll accept that. 11 me, and I think we would be able to come back and be able 12 I also don't have the authority to compel you 12 to help answer questions, and, i would feel more safe. I 13 to answer my questions by giving you immunity from 13 would feel better about my ignorance about this situation 14 prosecution. i can't do that. 14 because they wouid be able to better instruct me on how 15 immunity decisions are made not by me, they're 15 to potentially answer, or what to answer. 16 made by somebody etse. 16 The first time we spoke by telephone you called 17 So, any question that I ask you will be with 17 me and told me that you were calling me on a cell phone 18 the understand that if you want to assert your Fifth 18 that your brother Josh Garza had given you; is that 19 Amendment privilege ail you need to do is say, 'l refuse 19 right? 20 to answer on grounds that my answer might incriminate 20 A i don?t understand this type of law. it I 21 me,? and that is the end of your response. 21 intimidates me, just the questions, because ljust don't 22 Do you understand that? 22 know that you guys deal in. l'm not trying to frustrate 23 A i don't understand this type of iaw at alt. 23 you, but i think it is in my best interest to have an 24 Frankly, it really intimidates me because I don't 24 attorney present that can instruct me, that can help me, 25 understand what you just spoke, and the Fifth Amendment 25 through this process so that we can put it behind us. 1 2/201 5] GARZAMCARLOSW20150812 Pages 33 36 Case Document 1-4 Filed 08/14/15 Page 12 of 19 Page 37 Page 39 1 Sir, l'm asking you about a telephone call that 1 We want to ask you about what went on at 2 you made to me. Did you call me? 2 various company events. 3 A i know this sounds silly, Ms. Shields. I don't 3 We want to ask you about representations that 4 mean to disrespect you, I just woutd feel more 4 GAW made on the websites or internet message boards that 5 comfortable, and that it is in my best interest, if i had 5 the company sponsored. Those are the reasons that you?re 6 an attorney present that was working on my behaif. 6 here today, because we have a bunch of information 7 if you guys were to appoint me one i wouid come 7 already, and we want to ask you about your role in those 8 back and i would absolutely work with you guys under his 8 things, and what you know about what happened in 9 or her instruction and help out in any way that i can. 9 connection with those events. Do you understand what 10 What efforts have you made to try to find a 10 i've told you? 11 tawyer who will represent you? 11 A don't understand this type of law at all. 12 A At this time i am unable to afford an attorney 12 0 Okay. Forget about the type of law, do you 13 but as stated if you guys appoint me one, twilt 13 understand what iiust said to you about the kinds of 14 absolutely work with that attorney and come back to 14 things we want to ask you about? 15 answer any questions. 15 A Ms. Shietds, i don?t mean to frustrate you, and 16 Have you reached out to any bar associations, 16 l'm very sorry. i don?t mean to be disrespectfut; I 17 or other groups to see if you couid ?nd an attorney to don?t at all. This situation scares me. t'm frightened 18 help you in this matter? 18 of this situation. 19 A At this time, i can?t afford an attorney Ms. 19 Okay. Tel: me why 20 Shieids. 20 A idon?t understand this type of law 21 But have you done anything to try to see if 21 Tell me why, why are you frightened? 22 there might be legal services available to you even 22 A i don't understand this type of law. have 23 through you can't afford an attorney? 23 ignorance to this situation. For that reason, i feel it 24 A This situation just intimidates me, but if you 24 would be in my best interest to have counsel who better 25 guys apportioned me an attorney, I would absolutely come 25 understands this and would be abie to advise me. if you Page 38 Page 40 1 back with that attorney and i would take his or her 1 guys appointed me an attorney, i would absoluteiy come 2 advice on any questions that you guys have and work with 2 back and under the advice of that counsel be able to heip 3 you guys, because, they would have a better knowledge of 3 out in any way that can, as he or she instructed. 4 his situation, what the SEC does and deals in, and we 4 How much did GAW Miners pay you in 2014? 5 could work towards whatever it may be that we're working 5 A i don?t understand this type of law. This 6 towards. 6 frightens me. For that reason, i would prefer to retain 7 BY MS. LUNDGREN: 7 counsel and at this time, i can't afford one, but if you 8 Mr. Garza, are you refusing to answer questions 8 guys appointed me an attorney then i wouid be wilting to 9 today because you?re concerned that your brother, Josh 9 come back and help in any way that they instruct me to. 10 Garza, wili somehow have access to a transcript of 10 Did you work for any company or entity other 11 today's proceeding? 11 than GAW Miners in 2014? 12 A i don't understand this type know this sounds silly that I'm scared and 13 that?s what frightens me is that I'm ignorant to what the 13 frightened, but tjust don't understand this type of law 14 SEC deals in, and even why t'm here today. i have no 14 and what you guys deal in. For that reason, i think it 15 idea why i would be here, and that intimidates me and 15 is in my best interest to have an attorney present and i 16 that scares me. For that reason 1 feet it would be in my 18 can't afford one. But if you guys would appoint me one, 17 best interest to have counsel appointed to me by your 17 i would be absoiutely be willing to come back and help 18 guys, because I can't afford one, but as 1 stated lcan. 19 wilting to help and i will come back. But, I feel it is 19 Did you work for GAW Miners LLC in 2015? 20 fair to say that I would feel safer and better with 20 A This situation frightens me, and, again, i 21 someone who understands what you guys deat in that could 21 would just feel it is in my best interest to have an 22 advise me. 22 attorney present on my behalf to help guide me though and 23 We want to ask you about interactions you had 23 use his or her knowledge of the law to help you guys out. 24 with Mr. Garza, your brother, and others that worked at 24 I'm more than willing to do that if you appoint me an 25 GAW Miners. 25 attorney. [8/12/2015] 50812 Pages 37 4D Case Document 1-4 Filed 08/14/15 Page 13 of 19 Page 41 Page 43 1 Did you work for any entity, or company, or 1 this time can't afford an attorney, but, if you guys 2 person other than GAW Miners LLC in 2015? 2 were to appoint me one then I would come back and be 3 A l'm more than wilting to comply and help answer 3 willing to answer under their guidance. 4 any questions but would feel better if i had an 4 in August of 2014, were you working at (SAW 5 attorney present and I can't afford one right now. But, 5 Miners? 6 if you guys were to appoint me one, would absoiutely 6 A i don?t understand this type of iaw. I want to 7 come back and help in any way that i can. 7 do what?s right. l'm eager to hetp you guys. i just 8 When did you stop working at GAW Miners 8 feet it would be in my best interest ifl had an attorney 9 A i am more than willing to comply but this 9 working on my behalf. At this time, i can't afford me 10 situation frightens me and if you guys would appointment 10 one, but if you guys were to appoint me one, then would 11 me an attorney I would be more willing to come back and 11 absolutely come back and answer any questions that he or 12 feel that they wouid be better able to instruct me, 12 she instructs me to. 13 because i can't afford an attorney at this time. 13 Why don't you take a moment to read Exhibit 96 14 In an e?matl that you sent to me before today's 14 and then ask you some more particutar questions 15 proceeding, did you telt me that you wouid bring with you 15 about it. 16 a copy of the 1099 tax form that you got from 16 A I'm a little frightened of this situation. l?m 17 A I don't understand this type of law at ail and 17 scared. I don't feel comfortable because of my lack of 18 for that reason it frightens me. l?m just scared and 18 knowledge of what you guys deal in, and why I?m here 19 would just feel better about answering questions if i had 19 today. For that reason, I feel it would be in my best 20 an attorney present. 20 interest to have an attorney present who is better 21 i'm not asking you a legal question, sir, i'm 21 educated on this type of iaw and has my best interest in 22 asking about whether you said something to me in e?mail. 22 mind. i can?t afford an attorney right nowknow it may sound silly to you guys, i'rn just 23 guys were to appoint me one, then i would absotutely come 24 not educated on this type of law and so in order for me 24 back and i'm very eager to heip answer any questions that 25 to answer questions, i feel it in my best interest, 25 he or she instructs me to. Page 42 Page 44 1 personally, if i had an attorney present working on my 1 Okay. Sir, what i asked you to do was read 2 behalf. 2 Exhibit 96. Are you capabie of reading? 3 I can't afford an attorney right now so if you 3 A I don't mean to frustrate you Ms. Shields, 4 guys were to appoint me one, l'd be more than willing to 4 don't. I know this sounds silly but ljust l'm 5 help you out as he or she instructs. 5 intimidated by this situation and for that reason i feel 6 During the time that you worked at GAW Miners, 6 it would be in my best interest to have counsei, and as 7 did you ever have any concerns that the company was 7 stated, if you guys would appoint me counsel, I would 8 engaged in fraud? 8 absoluteiy come back and help in any way that he or she 9 A This situation scares me. My ignorance too, it 9 instructs me to. 10 scares me. Why i'm here, and why I would be here with 10 Are you impaired in any way, sir, that would 11 you guys, frightens me. i'rn Willing to comply and heip 11 prevent you from reading a document? 12 in any way that I can but 1 would just feet safer if i 12 A l?m scared. l?m very scared of this situation. 13 had an attorney. i'd feel better about things because my 13 My lack of knowledge of this situation, and what you guys 14 ignorance and lack of knowiedge to this situation, 14 deal in, frightens me. For that reason, would feel it 15 frankly, frightens me. But, if you guys appoint me an 15 is in my best interest to have counsel working on my 16 attorney then i would absoiutely be willing to come back 16 behatf who understands the situation that would be able 17 and help answer any questions. 17 to better guide me, and instruct me. That way you both, 18 (SEC Exhibit No. 96 was marked 18 and l, the SEC, we couid work toward resolving whatever 19 for identi?cation.) 19 this is, you guys, the reason l'm here. 20 BY MS. SHIELDS: 20 For the record Exhibit 96 is a two?page 21 Mr. Garza, l'm piecing before you Exhibit 96. 21 document. It appears to be a series of e~mails that took 22 Is this an email chain in which you participated? 22 piece, were sent, or received by you, sir, on August 23 A i'm kind of scared right now because I don't 23 181b, 2014. They bear the Bates numbers, and, sir, those 24 understand this type of iaw. it intimidates rne. feet 24 are the numbers down in the right-hand corner, 25 it would be in my best interest to retain counsel and at 25 and 002. Did i read those [8/12/2015} Pages 41 44 Case Document 1-4 Filed 08/14/15 Page 14 of 19 Page 45 Page 47 1 numbers correctly, sir? 1 question? 2 A l?m sorry. l'rn kind of scared in this 2 l'rn asking you a question. 3 situation. I would just feet better about answering 3 I put, look there is no mystery about this. i 4 questions if I had guidance of legai counsel that you 4 have this collection of documents. This is a foider that 5 guys could appoint to me. 5 is about 4 inches thick, maybe even 5 inches thick, full 6 In the middle of the ?rst page of Exhibit 96, 6 of copies of documents that was pianning to show to you 7 right about in the middle of the page, there is a line 7 today; do you see that? 8 that says on Monday, August 18th, 2014, at 10:01 pm. 8 A Can get into trouble for answering this 9 Carios Garza, and then the e~maii address 9 question? 10 carios@geniusesatwork.com wrote: "Does that mean I'm 10 l'm asking you whether you see this folder that 11 working on strictly commission?" 11 l'm showing you. 12 Do you see that on Exhibit committee 96? 12 A 1 don't mean to frustrate you, Ms. Shields. 13 A i'r?n pretty frightened of this situation. I 13 don?t understand this type of law and what questions 14 don't know why i'm here and what you guys deal in. For 14 Ali right, sir. 15 that reason i think it would be in my best interest if i 15 A how I should answer questions. lwant to 16 had an attorney. 1 can't afford an attorney at this 16 answer questions. If i had an attorney that you guys had 17 time, but if you guys appointed me one then i would 17 appointed to me, i would come back and i wouid heip as 18 absoluteiy come back and work with you under his or he '18 long as I had their guidance. 1 don't mean to frustrate 19 guidance to put this behind. 19 you, ma?am. 20 And for the record, sir, when was reading 20 Let me explain to you what is going to happen 21 that you weren't following along with me, were you? YOL 21 next. I'm going to ask you a series of questions that 22 were starring right straight ahead; is that correct? 22 are designed from my point of view to prove to the court 23 A i know this sounds so silly. It sounds silly 23 that us sitting here untii 5:00 pm. today is a waste of 24 to me as well. i just wouid feel so much more 24 my time, and a waste of Mr. Lundgren's time, and, a waste 25 comfortable it I had an attorney present just because I?m 25 of the court reporter's time. Page 46 Page 48 1 scared. i don?t know what you guys deal in. l?m vary 1 What l?m going to ask you is a series of 2 frightened because of ignorance of this situation, but as 2 questions about whether you're going to give me this same 3 i said, i'm eager to comply and to follow atong with 3 set of responses in response to anything I show you, or 4 anything that you guys need from me as long as it is 4 anything I ask you today. And if you teli me that the 5 under the guidance of counsel that would be able to 5 answer is, yes, that you're going to continue to make 6 instruct me because they would be better equipped with 6 this same set of responses to anyquestions 1 ask you, or 7 knowledge of this type of iaw and what exactly we're 7 any document relating to GAW Miners that i show you 8 dealing with. 8 today, then what l'm going to do is suspend this 9 What l'm most interested in right now, sir, is 9 testimony and go to court and ask a judge to order you to 10 whether that?s an emaii message you sent. Can you answer 10 answer my questions, 11 that question? 11 Do you understand that? 12 A This situations frightens me. l?m nervous 12 A Can i get in trouble for answering that 13 right now because 1 want to do the right thing. I don't 13 question? 14 want to disrespect you guys. I don't want to frustrate 14 i can't tell you what may or may not happen. 15 you guys. I just feel it would be in my persona: best 15 What i'm telling you is l?m going to take the transcript 16 interest with my lack of knowiedge or what you guys deal 16 that the court reporter is going to prepare as a result 17 in, in answering any questions if i had an attorney 1? of this, and l'm going to go to the court and l'm going 18 present who was working on my behalf. As i said, i'm 18 to say to the judge Mr. Garza came here today and refused 19 very eager to come back and help under the guidance of an 19 to answer any of my questions, and we terminated this 20 appointed attorney by you guys because at this time I 20 deposition after about an hour because spending six hours 21 can't afford one. 21 more wasn't going to get me any further. 22 Mr. Garza is it fair to say that you're 22 Sir, the choice is yours. i'm interested in 23 refusing to even look at documents that we put in front 23 your responses to these documents. I truly am. But if 24 ofyou? 24 you're going to sit here and refuse to read the material 25 A Can 1 get into trouble for answering that 25 I put in front of you, this is not oniy a waste of my 1 2/201 5] GARZAWCARLOSWZM 50812 Pages 45 48 Case Document 1-4 Filed 08/14/15 Page 15 of 19 Page 49 Page 51 1 time, but this is expensive. That's not an expense that 1 you mean in trouble from a court? What are you talking 2 I'm wilting to incur, unless you tell me that there is 2 about? 3 some bene?t to doing that. 3 A l'm just extremely intimidated by this 4 So, i'm going to ask you again, are you going 4 situation, because ljust don't know what you guys do, 5 to refuse - wetl, ?rst of all, do you see this fotder 5 what you guys deal in, and i just would feel way more 6 of documents that have on the table here? it is about, 6 comfortable if I had an attorney to guide me though this 7 i'm pretty bad at inches, but l'd say about four inches 7 process so that could be better equipped to help you 8 thick. Do you see it? 8 guys, and answer you correctiy, and do the things that he 9 A This probably sounds silly but my thought 9 or she instructs me to do, because, that is theirjob is 10 process is it, like i answer a question, couid 10 to know what you guys know, and just don't know that 11 potentiaiiy get into trouble, or, something, even if it 11 stuff. 12 is a yes, or, a no question. 12 We?re going to try this one more time. 13 Why do you think that, sir? i 13 show you any documents today relating to GAW Miners, are 14 A i don't understand this type of law at at 14 you going to read them? 15 Okay. 15 A Can get into troubie for not reading them, or 16 A i don?t understand what you guys deai in. 18 should i read them? I would just prefer if an attorney 17 don't want waste your time. i don't want to cost any 17 told me, an attorney working on my behalf, 'Carlos you 18 money. As i said, l'm eager to help, ljust would feel 18 should read this and answer this,? because i don't know 19 more comfortable if I had an attorney and i can't afford 19 the repercussions of anything with you guys, because, i 20 one. 20 don?t even know what you guys do. 21 0 You've made it very clear that you want to have 21 I don?t even understand the organization and 22 an attorney, but We also made it very clear to you that 22 what you guys represent, so it intimidates me and it 23 attorneys we don't appoint attorneys in Civil 23 scares me. [just want to be as helpful as possible for 24 investigative matters. Have you heard me when We said 24 you guys, but to be better equipped with the knowledge 25 that to you? 25 that my own attorney would bring. P899 50 Page 52 1 A i'm very sorry, Ms. Shields. 1 It you guys appoint me an attorney then will 2 Here is what I?m going to ask you. it is up to 2 come back and I'll answer any questions that he or she 3 you whether you?re going to answer them, or, not. 3 tells me, but i just don't know that to do in this 4 have here a coilection of documents reiating 4 situation. it just scares me. 5 to GAW Miners LLC that I was planning to show you today. 5 Are you going to answer my question about 6 iwas planning to have you look at those documents, and 6 whether you're going to read any document that I put in 7 read them, and, answer questions about them. If I put 7 front of you today? 8 any of these documents in front of you, are you going to 8 A (No reply.) 9 answer my questions substantively? 9 Are you going to read any document that I put .10 A if i answer that, will i get into trouble for 10 in front of you today, yes, or, no? 11 answering that? 11 A ls it sitly to think that I should have an 12 What do you mean by 'in troubte?? 12 attorney to help me with this, just to say, ?Carlos, you 13 A ljust I?m scared because know you guys 13 know, you have Then, they could tell me you have to 14 are a government agency. That is where my knowledge 14 do this, and it is in your best interest to do that. 15 stops, and I'm intimidated that if I answer something, or 15 Then i think we would work towards, you know, everything 16 do the wrong thing, that i could get in trouble and 16 much quicker if they couid just, they could, you know, 17 that's just because like i said, I didn't team about 17 use their knowledge to kind of help guide me through this 18 this in high school. 18 whole process so that you guys would bene?t more, as 19 When you say, ?in trouble,? what do you mean by 19 would I. 20 that? I can't answer a question sort of in the abstract, 20 i can't tell you whether, or not, to get an 21 ?are you going to get in troubie.? If you teli me that 21 attorney. What I can tell you is that we?re not going to 22 there are particular things that you are concerned about, 22 provide one for you. You can - you?re absolutely free. 23 I can tell you if those things are likely to happen, but 23 it is percent your right to go out and get yourself 24 i don't know what you mean when you say, 'in trouble.? 24 an attorney. The SEC doesn't pay for that. It is your 25 Do you mean in trouble from your bother? Do 25 choice, and it remains your choice. You haven't given me 1 2/201 5] Pages 49 52 Case Document 1-4 Filed 08/14/15 Page 16 of 19 Page 53 any information to suggest that you've done anything at Page 55 1 1 Are you going to answer those questions? is there a 2 ail to try to get yoursetf an attorney. 2 potential question about GAW Miners that i could ask you 3 Faced with that, have a series of questions 3 that you might answer, or, is it a waste of my time to 4 for you that are going to determine whether we're going 4 keep sitting here with you, asking you questions about 5 to sit here untii 5:00 o?ciock today, or we?re going to 5 GAW Miners? 6 end this relatively soon. So, will you listen to my 6 A This situation just intimidates me. Like l?m 7 questions please? 7 sorry i don?t know what - i feel personaliy, from my 8 A (No repEy.) 8 lack of knowledge, it wouid be in my best interest to 9 The ?rst of them is, are you going to read any 9 have an attorney help me through this process, so that we 10 document that put in front of you today? 10 both bene?t from that. And as 1 stated I can't afford 11 A I don't have the funds to get an attorney. 1 11 an attorney, but if you guys were to appoint me one then 12 can't afford an attorney, but if you guys would appoint 12 i would come back with that attorney and they couid guide 13 me one i would absolutely come back. I just don't 13 me through and i'll, you know, help you to whatever my 14 understand this type of taw and i don't understand that 14 abilities are. 15 you guys deal in. 15 So, is it fair to say that in the absence of 16 l'rn going to take your response as a no, you're 16 some counsel advising you, you?re not going to answer any 17 not going to read any document that i put in front of you questions that i have for you about GAW Miners? 18 today; is that fair? 18 A Can you tell me if i'li get in troubie if I 19 A ljust don?twant to get in trouble for things 19 just answer that? 20 that I don't know, that i'd know. I just I don't i 20 Tell me what you mean by, 'in troubie?? 21 want to help you Ms. Shields. I?m eager to put this 21 A (No reply.) 22 situation, whatever the reason I'm here, behind me. 22 What I can teil you is going to happen next is 23 You can help, but not oniy is it helping, it is 23 if you telt me that you're not going to answer my 24 your legat obligation to answer the questions that i ask 24 questions, is l'm going to take the transcript that the 25 you today, uniess you tell me that you're asserting your 25 court reporter is going to prepare at the end of this. Page 54 Page 56 1 Fifth Amendment right not to do so for fear that 1 What she's doing is recording everything i say, and 2 answering those questions is going to put yourseif in 2 everything that you say, and it is going to get all 3 jeopardy of criminal prosecution, subject yourself to 3 written down on pteces of paper and l?m going to take 4 criminal prosecution. That means prosecution by a 4 that to court and Phi going to ask a judge to make you 5 criminal law enforcement agency for a crime. if you want 5 come back on another day and answer my questions. 6 to do that, that is certainly your right. But you can't 6 And i may ask the judge to impose sanctions 7 just sit here and tell me that you want me to appoint a 7' upon you for refusing to answer my questions, and 8 lawyer for you because that is not going to happen. 8 sanctions can be any number of things. Without sort of 9 A I don't understand this type of iaw. lwould 9 thinking it through, i don't know what l'm going to ask 10 just feet better if an attorney that was working on my 10 thejudge to do fuliy, but that is what i'm going to do. 11 behait helped me through the process. 11 So, this is your choice. You can tet that 12 is that refrain that you don?t understand this, 12 happen and take your chances with the judge, and make any 13 and you're concerned, and you're worried, and you don?t 13 defense, or argument to the court that you would like, or 14 understand what the securities taws are about, is that 14 you can answer my questions. 15 the answer that you're going to give me to any question i 15 A That frightens me so much because i don't 16 ask you today about your involvement with GAW Miners? 16 understand that type of law. 17 A (No repty.) 17 That is the choice that you have, sir. 18 is that what you're going to tail me in 18 A Wilt you guys appoint me an attorney? 19 response to anything I ask you today about GAW Miners? 19 Absolutely not. 20 A I?m sorry that t'm scared. l?m sorry because i 20 A it you guys appoint me an attorney then i could 21 want to genuinely help. [just don't understand this 21 come back and i would answer under his or her guidance. 22 type of law and it really intimidates me. 22 Look, I?m not going to get into an argument 23 i don't need you to be sorry. iiust need you 23 about it with you, sir. We don't appointment counsel for 24 to tell me what you?re going to do if i keep asking you 24 witnesses in civil investigations; it is not what we do. 25 questions about GAW Miners. What are you going to do? 25 This is the choice that you have to make, and [8/12/2015] Pages 53 - 56 Case Document 1-4 Filed 08/14/15 Page 17 of 19 Page 57 Page 59 1 it is you choice to make. And if you'd like you can have 1 the moment, and I'm giving you that choice, sir. 2 a couple of minutes to think about it. l'm happy to give 2 A Could the judge appointment me an attorney? 3 you all the time you need to think about this Choice. Do 3 You could ask the judge for whatever you want. 4 you want a few minutes? 4 i would oppose that request. 1 am telling you that you 5 A i'm just really scared of this situation. l'm 5 can ask the court for whatever you want. 6 eager to do whatever it is that's right. i wouid just 6 A Ajudge woutd be able to appoint me an 7 feet much more comfortable if someone who better 7' attorney? 8 understands this situation couid explain to me who you 8 ldOi?t't knowwnere a judge would get funds to 9 guys are, why l'm here, how to best assist you guys and 9 do so, butjudges have 3 tot of power. I can't give you 10 help you, and that they have my best interest in mind. 10 tegal advice about what a judge could, or, coutd not do. 11 Then I couid heip, you know, in any way that he or she 11 A Yes, ma'arn. 12 instructs, and it would be bene?cial for both of us. 12 Wail, l'li help out any way i can if maybe you 13 You choice, sir. Answer my questions or face a 13 guys maybe can appoint me an attorney, or a judge can 14 subpoena enforcement action in court. 14 appoint me an attorney, then i could come back and help 15 A Ma'am, that scares me because I want to do the 15 answer any questions under their guidance. 16 right thing. 16 So, itake it from that response that is what 17 l?m sorry it scares you but your obiigation 17 you?re choosing, is to suspend today's testimony and not 18 when you get a lawfut subpoena from the Securities and 18 answer, essentially refuse to answer, any questions today 19 Exchange Commission is to answer questions truthfully, 19 since you don't have an attorney; is that right? 20 that?s the choice you have. 20 A l?m just scared. l'm sorry. ljust want to do 21 A I'm eager to help answer any questions. i just 21 the right thing. twoutd just feel more comfortable with 22 can't afford an attorney right now. So, if you guys 22 an attorney that understands the situation and then we 23 appointed me one 23 can help you guys anyway we can. 24 We're getting nowhere. We do not appoint 24 So, not having an attorney with you today, or 25 counsel for witnesses in civii investigations. This is 25 having advised you, you're not going to answer my Page 58 Page 50 1 your choice. Do you want a few minutes to think about 1 questions. is that what you're tailing me? 2 it? 2 A I can?t afford an attorney at this time. 3 A i'm more than willing to compty. i'rn eager to 3 Are you going to answerr any questions that i 4 help out in any way that I can. ijust can?t afford an 4 ask you today, substantively? 5 attorney right now, so it you guys would appoint me one 5 A l?m sorry, Ms. Shields, 1 don't want to 6 then I could come back immediately with that attorney and 6 frustrate you. i don't want to disrespect you. ljust 7 help answer any questions that he or she instructs. 7 want to do the right thing, and I would feel more 8 Again, Ms. Shields, 1 don?t mean to frustrate 8 comfortable if i had an attorney to help me through this 9 you, and I don't mean to upset you. i don't want to 9 process. 10 disrespect anything. I'm taking this very serious. i 10 Mr. Garza, i?m going to try one last time. I 11 just feel like it would be in my best interest if I had 11 can tell from your responses that you're perfectly 12 an attorney here on my behalf to help guide me through 12 articutate. You seem to comprehend the English language. 13 this process. 13 You don't have any dif?culty in speaking in English, or 14 Look, t'm not frustrated with you. I'm not 14 speaking in English sentences, so I don't think that this 15 upset with you. You have not disrespected me. Let?s 15 the issue here. 16 iust leave that there. 16 From your e?mail, i see that you're perfectly 17 A Yes, ma?am. 17 capable of writing and responding to questions in written 18 What l'm trying to do is ?gure out where we go 18 Engtish, including question about relatively complicated 19 from here because as a matter of law i'm entitled to your 19 technology. 20 answers to these questions. What l?m trying to do is 20 A Thank you. 21 ?gure out how l?m going to get those. i could get them 21 i don't have any concern that you don't 22 because a judge - i could go to court and coutd ask 22 understand what's going on. I am concerned that you have 23 the iudge to order you to answer them and that is one way 23 not attempted to read the Formal Order that we gave you 24 I couid get them. The other way is you coutd decide to 24 today, which explains this investigation, and, which, i 25 testify here today. Those are the choices that I see at 25 don't believe you've ever seen before today. [8/12/2015] Pages 57 60 Case Document 1-4 Filed 08/14/15 Page 18 of 19 Page 61 Page 63 1 That concerns me because a lot of what you're 1 we're going to suspend today?s testimony. l'm going to 2 saying is that you don?t understand what this proceeding 2 ask that he court reporter prepare a transcript on an 3 is about and that Format Order that we gave you at the 3 expedited basis. 4 start of today?s proceeding explains what this 4 A Yes, ma?arn. 5 investigation is about. 5 And I'm going to go seek the involvement of the 6 Based on my persona! observation of you sitting 6 court in this proceeding further. Do you understand 7 here today, you didn?t - other than look at the titte of 7 that? 8 it, you didn't read it at all. it's a three page, or 8 A l?m eager to help out in any way that i can. 9 four?page document and you didn't turn the pages at atl. 9 If I were to be appointed an attorney, tike you said, 10 So, ali of what you're saying about not 10 maybe a judge could, then I could absoluter come back 11 understanding this proceeding rings somewhat hollow to 11 and i will hetp to my fullest capacity under their 12 me, because, based on what We observed today, you've 12 instruction. l'm just scared of this situation. 13 made no attempt to understand what this proceeding is 13 i want to make it very clear to you that have 14 about. 14 made absolutely no representations about a judge 15 A While we were off tne record, before we 15 appointing counsel for you and, in fact, informed you 16 started, I ?ipped through every page, and when you asked 16 that we wouid oppose any such request; do you understand 17 me did i have any questions I told you that i simply did 17 that? 18 not understand and you asked if I trad any speci?c 18 A misunderstood. l'm sorry. 19 questions. I read through it, ijust don?t understand it 19 Do you understand now what l?m saying to you? 20 because I don't understand this type of taw. That?s why 20 A (No repty.) 21 1 feet it wouid be in my best interest if I had an 21 A court can aiways do what a court does, and 22 attorney that coutd help guide me through these documents 22 you can ask the court whatever you want. But, if you ask 23 and better explain why E'rn here, what you guys do, and 23 the court to appoint you counsel in this proceeding, 24 how to assist you guys the best, and now to help you out 24 woutd likeiy oppose that request. Do you understand 25 the best. 25 that? Page 62 Page 64 1 Okay. Wetl, let me telt you, it is very 1 A Oppose the request meaning -- 2 simple. The way that you can assist is by answering our 2 i wouid ask the lodge not to do that, do you 3 questions, truthfully, and accuratety, and, completely. 3 understand that? 4 That is what we?re looking for from you. That is your 4 A Yes, ma'am. 5 obligation when served with a lawful subpoena, unless you 5 Okay. Ali right. 6 asset your Fifth Amendment right not to testify. 6 MS. SHEELDS: Given all that, we're off the 7 A Are you saying that it is better for me not to 7 record at 10:59 am. 8 have an attorney? 8 (Whereupon, at 10:59 am, the examination was 9 am not telling you one way or another whether 9 concluded.) 10 you should have an attorney, or not. What t'm teliing 1O 11 you is your obligation is to provide us with truthful and 11 12 accurate testimony. 12 13 if you chose not to hire an attorney, whether 13 14 you can't afford one, or for some other reason, you're 14 15 stilt going to have to answer our questions. 15 16 A i just feel like it would be in my best 16 17 interest to have an attorney, and, as I said, i can?t 1T 18 afford one, but if I was appointed one then i would come 18 19 back and under their guidance heip in any way that i can. 19 20 I understand that you want an attorney to be 20 21 appointed to you and I?ve told you on a number of 21 22 occasions that that is simply not something that the 22 23 securities and exchange commission does. So, faced with 23 24 your refusai, what I am taking as your refusal to answer 24 25 any questions without having ?rst obtained legal advice, 25 1 2/201 5] Pages 61 - 64 Case Document 1-4 Filed 08/14/15 Page 19 of 19 Page 65 i, KIMBROUGH, reporter, hereby certify that the foregoing transcript of 64 pages is a complete, true and accurate transcript of the testimony indicated, held on August 12, 2015, at Boston, MA in the matter of: SAW MINERS, LLC 1 further certify that this proceeding was recorded by me, and that the foregoing transcript has been prepared under my direction. Date: Of?ciat Reporter: Diversi?ed Reporting Services, Inc. 444444.;Page 66 in The Matter of: GAW MINERS, LLC Witness: Carlos Garza File Number: Date: August 12, 2015 Location: Boston, MA This is to certify that l, Nicholas Wagner, (the undersigned), do hereby swear and af?rm that the attached proceedings before the US. Securities and Exchange Commission were held according to the record and that this is the original, compiete, true and accurate transcript that has been compared to the repo?ing or recording accomptished at the hearing. (Proofreader's Name) (Date) [8/12/2015] Pages 65 - 66