-2-i 23 Prosecuted against Hr..Perrot that fit in this time scheme and this neighborhood in this area? A. Would you rephrase that again. Q. was there more -- A. _(Interposing) Was there mere than one case? There was a multitude of casesIr as I remember. 01 May I -- this is Exhibit No. 1. Would you take a minute and iook at that, sir. {Indicating} A. I?ve seen this. (Indicating) Q. Who made up the wording of that, sir? A. I couldn't teil you. I . Who typed it? A. Don?t knowu Q. You have seen it before? yes. I Q. When did you see it? A. .The last time? The last time prior to today that I have seen it? Q. Yes. When was the first time you saw it? The first time 1 saw it would have been the day it was being put together. Q. Going back -- A. (Interposing) What I mean is I was involved within COMPUTERIZED onus}?! s. Associmss hoe? this Process. I just can?t tell you physically who typed it and where when it was typed,_here or at the Springfield Police Station, I would be guessing. Q. What's the reason you would be guessing? A. Just the length of time I was aware of it I was involved in this, but I don't want to say it was done in the office as opposed to Springfield Police Station because I can't tell you. I don't know. Q. Okay. And you can?t tell me who's words those are? A. It would have been authorized by me. Whether I came up with the-words or someone else did and offered it to me for approval I don?t know. Q. Okay. So itfs your document, basically, but you can't tell me whether you recall -- whether you did the actual_ typing or somebody else typed it? A. I don?t want to say that. I don't_see it as being important. I don't know whether I put this together or one of the police_officers put it together and then showed it to me. I just don't I don't know whether it was me or one of the other officers. -U1tinately before anything was done with it I had seen it and approved it. - 0. Okay. Whether or not you remember how it had get created please turn to page three. . CDHPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN-8 ASSOCIATES (Witness complying.) Uh-huh. Q- _Would you notice, please, there are three signatures there? (Indicating) A. Right. Q. One of those yours? A. Yes. Q. Do you recall signing your name? A. No. ?1 here no recollection of signing it. That is my signature. 0. One of the signatures that you recognize the handwriting? A. Yes. Q. Is one or those signatures George Perrot's? A. Is it his signature? Yes. Does it puroort to he 4- do you recall signing this? A. No. He didn?t sign it. I don't know. It would have been me or either one of the police officers. I don?t have any recollection of doing it myself, but I can't say I did. Q. It could have been you who signed George Perrot's name? A. Could have been. - COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION ASSOCIATES 1 Q. Yen are telling this Court, now, you don't know who? 2 it was that signed the third page of this document next to 3_ your signature?_ 4- A. I have no recollection either to tell you the two 5 other_signatures do not appear to be my handwriting. So I 6 don?t have -- I 7 Q. (Interposing) That is not what I asked you. I 8 didn't ask you who?s handwriting it appeared to be. 9 A. I don't signed it. 10 Q. I wasn't asking you who's handwriting_it appeared 11 to be. I am just asking you do you know if George Perrot g?ms 12 signed it? 13 A. Yes. I know whether he signed it or not. 14 Q. .And did heSomebody else signed his name? 17 A A. Yes. 18 I Q. Are you telling me you can?t remember who it was? 19 A. I don't remember specifically. I know ft wasn't 20 I I Q. What function is your name on there? A. As a witness to George Parrot, correct. Q. You didn?t witness it? TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN a ASSOCIATES . you can't remember? a. No. I have said tWice it is not his signature. Q. - Did y0u witness the pen going to that piece of paper or can?t you remember? A. You mean whoever.signed it did I see them sign his? name? That's what you are asking me? I donit know.- 0. You don?t remember? A. No. Q. It is possible that it could have been you that did it? - A. No. I would say it is not. Excuse me. I would say that it is not my handwriting. Q. Again, I am not asking you to be a handwriting expert. If I may.. the other signature, does it purport to be sergeant Kelly's? A. Yes. Q. And did you at some time have a conversation with Sergeant Kelly about that signature? At the time this was done? 9- At some time did you have a conversation with Sergeant Kelly about that signature? A. I talked to Sergeant Kelly about this, yes. -COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN 8 ASSOCIATES . . I 1 Q. When? 2 A. In the last few weeks I've talked to him. 3' 0. Okay. And what was the nature of that 4 conversation? 5 A. It was about this. 5- Q. Did sergeant Kelly tell you that he put his 7 signature on that paper? 8 A. NO, he didn't. He told me that it is not his 9 signature_and he doeSn?t remember being involved. 10 Q. Did he call and ask you about this not too long 11 ago? . 12 A. He has talked to me a number of times. I have been 13 friends with him for years. 14 Q. About this particular document, you talked to him a 15 number of documents (sic) over the years; is that what you are 16 saying? 17? A. I talked to him more than once about this, yes. 18 Q. You have? 19 A. Yes. .20 Q. Has there a specific phone call that you can recall 21 to your law office or your home from Sergeant Kelly recently '22"Wafter the decision of the appeal had been granted and the 23 'decision to retry George Perrot had come up? Did you and -COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN ASSOCIATES. ?09:qu ?ii-:91: qo-s-ijorim . -. .u . ?eet-55.. vhf" )??m-5-?g-gfiq -. .. .. ?v .30 '22 Sergeant Kelly discuss this document? (Indicating) we've discussed this when I took the call and when A. I don?t -- Q. (Interposing) I am trying to aid in remembering specifics. A. I don't remember where it was or whether he called me at home or whether he called me at work. I can?t tell you. Q. But at least you remember that you and Sergeant Kelly talked about this document? A. We have talked about this document. Q. At the time Sergeant Kelly's name was signed did you -- do you recall asking him if it was all right-to use his name? A. I don't know who signed Kelly?s name. Q. Do you recall asking if it was all right to use his name? I A. No. Q. You recall telling him you used his name during one of these many conversations you had with Sergeant Kelly? Do I recall telling Kelly I used his name?? A.. d. Yes. A. No. Q. You don't recall that at all? ZED TRANSCRIPTION COMPUTERI PHILBIN ASSOCIATES look at number two. 3_ One more question about document number one just to make 4 sure I am not confused here. 5 You can't remember who typed it or who worded it, but you 6 are a adapting that document as something that you approved 7 of? A. Yes. 9 And you recognize the handwriting as a witness to 10 George Perrot's signature as your own? 11 - That is my'signature from my name not the other witness? 14 a. Right. I 15 Q. And you also testified that George Parrot did not- 16 sign this? 17 A. Correct, 18 Q. So you did not witness George Perrot signing this? 19 No. - 39 0.. Take a look it that one, number two. 21 - Actually, sir, I am going to direct just to the bottom at 22' the signature of George Perrot, does it appear to you there 23' has been more than one signature done there? (Indicating) i. - TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN s. ASSOCIATES - - tracing? 0.. Whose signature are you talking about there. Mr. Perrot. Yes. It looks like someone went over it in pencil over the pen. When you say, "it looks like someone" am I to take it then you don?t recall ever seeing that before, that What you're showing me? Yes. I No. You didn't do that? NO. Who else was involved in this investigation beside I Sergeant Kelly? Chief Stelzer.r Captain Arpin, Sergeant Kennedy, Sergeant McFarlin, Detective Jarvis. All Springfield police? About at least eight or nine people that were prominently involved. All from the Springfield Police Department? Correct. Anybody from the state police ever involved? N0.