. m. 3 1 ES DISTRICT COURT DISTRICT 0 FLORIDA 2 PALM BEACH DIVISIO 3 . 4 RENE JOLTEUS, et al., Plaintiff, 5 Vs CIVIL ACTION 0. 99?8598 6 GEORGIA GROWERS ASSOCIATION, . IN et al., 3 Judge Ferguson Defendant. 14 was reported by Heather 15 1t Reporter and Notary 16 of Georgia, at the 17 Charles Kent 18 225 Avenue Tifton l9 ately 9 00 a on 20 and concluded on the same 21 22 23 24 . Arwood 25 (912) 386-7881 v. ?Mc?n-h? DISCLOSURE STATE OF GEORGIA COUNTY OF TIFT Deposition of Kent Todd Hamilton Pursuant to Article 8.B. of the Rules and Regulations of the Board of Court Reporting of the Judicial Council of Georgia, I make the following disclosure: I am a Georgia Certified Court Reporter. I am here as a representative of Jensen, Coffey, and Arwood. The firm was contacted by the office of Gregory S. Schell to provide court reporting services for this deposition. The firm will not be taking this deposition under any contract that is prohibited by O.C.G.A. 15~l4?37 and The firm has no contract/agreement to provide reporting services with any party to the case, any counsel in the case, or any reporter or reporting agency from whom a referral might have been made to cover this deposition. The firm will charge its usual and customary rates to all parties in the case, and a financial discount will not be given to any party to this litigation. 3?1259 Certified Court Reporter APPEARANCES: 2 3 GREGORY S. SCHELL, Esquire Migrant Farmworker Justice Project 4 Attorney at Law 406 S.E. Avenue 5 P.O. Box 2110 Belle Glade, Florida 3340?7110 6 For the Plaintiffs 7 BOB HALL, Esquire 8 YOUNDY C. COOK, Esquire Ford Harison 9 Attorneys at Law 101 East Kennedy Boulevard 10 Suite 900 Tampa, Florida 33602 ll For the Defendants l2 ALSO PRESENT: 13 Dan Bremer THEREUPON: KENT TODD HAMILTON was called, and upon being first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows on: BY MR. SCHELL: Q. Would you please state your full name for the record. A. Kent Todd Hamilton. Q. Mr. Hamilton, where do you reside? A. 4160 Cool Springs Road, Norman Park, Georgia. Q. How old are you, if I may ask? A. 36. Q. And what do you do for a living, sir? A. I?m a vegetable farmer. Q. For how many years have you worked as a vegetable farmer? A. Approximately twelve. Q. Did you attend college? A. Little over two years. Q. And then couple years after you were out of college, you went into vegetable farming? A. Yes. Q. Which well, are you a sole 4 proprietorship as a farmer or do you work in some sort of corporate form? A. Work in a corporate form. Q. What corporation do you farm with? A. Hamilton Growers, Incorporated. Q. And for how many years have you grown with Hamilton drowers, Incorporated? A. Approximately ten. Q. Prior to that, was there any other company you grew with? A. No. Q. Now, you were present during the deposition of Fermin Palomares yesterday, right? A. Right. Q. He mentioned a company called Southern Valley. Are you familiar with such a company? A. Yes. Q. What is the correct name of that company, the full name of it? A. Southern Valley Fruit and Vegetable, Incorporated. Q. Where does that company operate? A. 2775 Ellenton?Norman Park Road. Q. Is that the same location as Hamilton Growers, Inc. as well? Yes. Q. What is the relationship, if any, between the two companies? A. Two companies have the same owners. Q. Who are the owners? A. Kent Hamilton and Wanda Hamilton-Tyler. Q. What is your relationship, if any, to Wanda Hamilton?Tyler? A. She?s my mother. Q. And is there any reason there are two corporations rather than one? A. NO. Q. Is Southern Valley an active corporation in the farming business at the present time? A. No. Q. When did it, Southern Valley, cease being an active farming entity? A. It?s never been an active farming entity. Q. What does Southern Valley do? A. It?s a vegetable it packs vegetables for the vegetables we grow. Q. There?s a packing house associated with the farm; is that right? Right. Q. And the packing house, for example, I assume employs people to help pack, pack the vegetables; is that right? A. Right. Q, And the people that work in the packing house, do they work for Southern valley? A. They worked for Hamilton Growers. Q. Well, what is the relationship with Southern Valley to that packing house? A- don?t understand your question. Q. Well, you said Southern Valley was involved in packing; is that right? A. Right. Q. How is it involved in the packing? A. I don?t know exactly- Q. Does Southern Valley take title to the vegetables and then sell them as a broker of sorts? A. Well, I don?t really know how you would consider it. Q. Well, why don?t you tell me what Southern Valley does. A. Well, Southern Valley is more of a a~ more of an agent that markets the vegetables for the farm for a fee. Q. It?s involved in the sales of the vegetables, it tries to help locate buyers for them? A. That?s right. Q. And then when the vegetables are sold, Southern Valley receives a fee based on the sale; is that right? A. I think that?s the way it worked. Q. Does Southern Valley have any employees? A. Yes. Q. Who are the employees of Southern Valley? A. I don?t know exactly. Q. What jobs are within the business of Southern Valley? What sort of jobs do they have of people? A. 1 Well, there's officentype jobs, people do payroll and accounting; and then there?s packing~type work that?s over in the packing house involving packing and loading trucks. Q. Let me break that down. You said that some of the Southern Valley employees are involved with payroll activities; is that right? 5K: Right. Q. Do they handle payroll exclusively for Southern Valley or also for Hamilton Growers? A. I don?t know that. Q. You say they had some Southern Valley employees do some sorts of things in the packing house. 'What sorts of things do they do in the packing house? A. The actual packing of the vegetables and palletizing vegetables and loading trucks. Q- And the people who pack the vegetables? are they paid by Southern Valley? A. No. They receive a Hamilton Growers check? A. That?s right. Is there anyone who works in the packing of the vegetables that is paid a Southern Valley check? A. I don?t know. I don?t know the answer to that. Who would know the answer to that? Probably Wanda would know that. Your mother? My mother. 0 Are you an officer in Southern Valley? Yes. Q. What officer are you? A I'm president. Q. And for how long have you been president of Southern Valley? A. Approximately two years. Q. Now, Hamilton Growers actually produces vegetables, right? A. Right. Q. What vegetables are grown on the farm? A. Bell pepper and hot peppers, cucumbers, squash, eggplants, and cabbage. Q. Have the same crops been grown there for the last five years? A. Yes. Q. How many acres are in cultivation with Hamilton Growers at the present time? A. About 900. Q. Was the amount in cultivation roughly the same in 1998? A. Yes. Q. Do you know which of the companies has physical title to the packing house, to the property it?s on? A. No. best source again might be your mother? A. Probably so. Q. Now, what role do you play in the day?to~day farm operation at Hamilton Growers? What do you do in a day? That may be a long list of things, but I would like to get this. A. Oversee all of the farm and help oversee the packing house. Q. When you say oversee the farm, I assume you oversee if it?s time to plant the planting; is that right? A. Right. Q. And would you oversee any cultivation that needs to be done as the crop is growing? A. Right. Q. Do you help oversee the harvest? A. Right. Q. And then you say you do try to help out some in the packing house. What do you do with respect to the packing house? A. I go by from time to time and check on it. Q. If there?s a problem in the packing house, are you the person ordinarily contacted or in}. there someone else in the chain-of?command that?s sort of the person in charge of the packing house? A. It depends on what kind of problem it is; but a serious problem, I would be contacted. Q. Now, are you familiar with the labor needs of the farm for the various things, Various taSks that are performed there during the year? A. Yes. Q. What time of year first of all, let?s Start with January. What activities are going on in the farm in January? A. We would be finishing up cutting cabbage and preparing the land for the spring crop. Q. Well, now, cutting the cabbage that time of year, about how many workers would you need for that? A. In January? Q. Yes. A. For just cutting cabbage? Q. Yes. A. Probably 50. Q. And then is that cabbage in January field?packed or is it run through the packing in: Ex} house? A. Most of it would be fieldupacked, some might would be run through the packing house. Q. So the packing house would be operating in January? A. At a minimal rate. Q. At that minimal rate, about how many people would be employed at the packing house that time of year? A. Maybe five to six. Q. Now, you say preparing the land for the upcoming crop. What sort of preparation is done in the month of January? A. We?re grading the land, cleaning up old plastic, applying fertilizers, and getting ready to lay plastic. Q. Now, you say you grow a lot of your crops on plastic? A. Yeah. Q. Which crops do you grow on plastic? A. All of them. Q. And so that generally requires the plastic be laid down before the plant is before the crop is planted; is that right? A. Right. And then after the harvest, you remove the plastic; is that right? A. Not exactly. Q. What sort of work you said they were getting rid of plastic in January. What do you mean by that? A. After the plastic was completely finished with, we pull it up and load it on trailers to be carried to the landfill. Q. How many people do you need in January to pull plastic? A. Maybe 15, 20. Q. Now, would these workers also do cabbage at the same time or would they be doing just plastic? A. Possibly do cabbage, too. Q. Now, when we go to February, what activities are going on on the farm? A. We?re laying plastic. Q. And about how many people do you need that time of year to lay plastic? A. Maybe 20. Q. Doing any sort of harvesting in that month? A. Most of the time, no. Would the packing house be operating in February ordinarily? A. NO. Q. So would you be doing any planting in February? A. Possibly planting cabbagemachine to plant the A. No, no. Q. How many people do you need when you plant the cabbage? A. Maybe 20. Q. So we?re into March. What goes on in March on the farm? A We begin planting. Planting what crops? A. Pepper, squash, cucumber, eggplant. And how many people do you need to plant those crops? A. Probably 50. Q. And those 50 would move from crop to crop, they would plant some pepper and then they d? (I) would plant some eggplant; is that how it work Same 50 people would work, the same group of 50 would be w. - Probably so. Q. Would you be doing any harvesting in March? I A. NO. Q. Would the packing house ordinarily be operating in March? A. NO. Q. -The cabbage has already been planted usually by March; is that right? A. Yes. Q- So we get into April. What happens in April? A. We begin staking pepper and eggplant, finish planting. Q. And that would be finishing planting the cucumbers, the peppers, the squash and eggplant? A. Cucumbers and squash. And the end of April, maybe start cutting cabbage and picking squash. Q. So the packing house, would it start operating towards the end of April? A. Yes. Q. Well, now, are peppers and eggplants the two crops that you grow with stakes? Right. And are all your pepper crops grown with stakes or just certain of them? A. Q. peppers? A. Q. 900 acres, A. Q. fall? fall. Q. All of them. About how many acres you got in All the varieties of peppers? What time of the year? Over the course of the year out of your how much are pepper? Total spring and fall? Yes. MR. HALL: Object to the form. Maybe 250. How is that split between spring and Maybe 150 in the spring and 100 in the And eggplant acreage, what?s the total acreage between spring and fall? A. Q. fall or is A. spring and Q. 32. Is that split evenly between spring and it more in spring than it is in fall? Well, the total would the fall. How many people do you need to stake the peppers and eggplants in April? A. Probably 50. Q. And you indicated that in April, you?re also finishing planting the cucumbers and squash. Now, you said you had about 50 people the month before doing that activity. Would those 50 people continue until the cucumbers and squash were all planted? A. Probably so. Q. And then you say you started cutting cabbage at the end of April. How many people do you have that work cutting cabbage in that spring harvest? A. Maybe as many as 100. Q. And is most of that cabbage field?packed? A. Yes. Q. And then you say you start picking squash at the end of April. Does squash continue, I assume, into May? A. Yes. Q. How many people do you utilize picking squash in the spring? A. 75 to 100. Q. Now, the packing house grades the {33 squash; is that right? A. No. Q. Is it packed there or does it go any way through the packing house? A. It?s packed there and it?s put into coolers there. Q. So when the squash is delivered to the packing house, how many people do you need to handle it before it gets put in the cooler? A. Maybe 30 to 40. Q. And what do those individuals do with the squash? A. They?re grading and packing them. Q. Are they graded off a belt? Is that how it works? A. No, they're poured into a tank and packed out of the tank. Q. So the graders look at what?s in the tank and pull out the bad ones; is that how it works? A. Yes. Q. And then for the cabbage that's field?packed, is there any activity in the packing house related to that cabbage other than putting it in the cooler? Now, by the time you get into May, what is the farm doing? A. We?re harvesting cabbage, harvesting squash and harvesting cucumbers. Q. Now, would you still be using about 100 people to cut the cabbage in the month of May? A. Probably. Q. And squash, you would continue to use about 75 to 100? A- Probably. Q. And how many would be would you be using to harvest that cucumber crop at that time of the year? A. Probably 50 to 75. Q. Now, I assume the packing house operates in the month of May? A. Right. Q. About how many people would be working in the packing house during that time in an ordinary year? A. Maybe 60. Q. Would they be primarily grading squash and cukes? A. Primarily. What else would they be doing? A. That?s all in June. Q. What?s done on the farm? A. We?re finishing cabbage, picking squash, picking cucumbers, and begin picking pepper and eggplant- Q. Now, about when in June does the cabbage finish usually? A. Around the 5th of June. Q. So it?s almost wound up by the time we get into June? A. Right. Q. Would you still in June be using about 75 or 100 people to do the squash? A. No, it?s less. About how many would you use at that time of year? A. Maybe 25. Q. Is that because you?re coming to the end of the squash harvest? A. No, we have less squash. Q. Cucumbers, that time of year, how many would you be using? You said you were using 50 or 75 in May. Would it be about the same in June or more or less? Around 100 in June. Q. And then you about what time in June do you start harvesting pepper and eggplant? A. June 1. Q. And about how many people will you need to do the pepper and eggplant harvesting work? A. 100 to 150. Q. Now, during June, about how many people are working in the packing house? A. Probably around 60. Q- About the same number as the month before? A. Right. Q. And they would be, I assume, grading squash, cucumbers, pepper, and eggplant? A, No. Q. What would they be doing? A. Grading cucumbers and pepper. Q. Because the squash is about finished? A. Well, the squash packing is somewhat separate from the packing line packing pepper and cucumbers. Q. Okay, tell me how that you said there's a tub with the squash or a tank? Tank? A. Right. I?m not familiar with that. Could you explain that to me? A. They?re packing the good ones out, taking the good ones out of the tank and packing them in a box and throwing the bad ones in the bin. Q. Do you have a separate group that just works on the squash tank? A. Generally. Q. About how many people work at the squash tank at a time? A. Maybe 20. Q. And then about how many do you need to work on the grading line for the cucumbers? A. Probably around 60. Q. Let me make sure I understand this. You said you have about 60 people in the packing house in June. Now, you say you need about 60 to run the grading line for the cucumbers. Now, do you need an additional 20 people to work in the squash? A. Generally. SO all together it might be about 80? A. At times. In July, what goes on on the farm? I o. We?re finishing pepper and finishing eggplant. Q. Are you doing any planting or getting ready for the next crop in July or that hasn?t started yet? A. We would be laying plastic in July for the fall crop. Q. In July about e~ will you still have about 100 to 150 people working pepper and eggplant harvest? A. Yes. Q. And then about how many people during July will you have laying plastic? A. Maybe 25. Q. Would those people also work harvesting pepper and eggplant or they would be separate from that? A. Possibly work harvesting pepper and eggplant. Q. And in the packing house during the month of July, will you have about 60 people working on the grading line for the peppers? A. Possibly. Q. And in August, what?s going on on the farm? 10 1.Planting pepper, planting squash, planting cucumbers, planting eggplant. Q. Have you already laid the plastic by that point? A. Yes. Q. Is the packing house operating during the month of August? A. No. Q. Now, earlier in March, you said you used about 50 peOple to plant the spring crop. Is it about the same in August or is it more or less? A. Yes, the same. Q. September, what?s happening? A. Picking squash, picking cucumbers, staking and stringing pepper, stringing eggplant. 0. Now, and the packing house, I assume, is operating to grade both the cukes and to pull the good squash out of the tank; is that right? A. Right. Q. So let?s talk about the packing house first. About how many people would you have grade the cukes in the month of September? A. Maybe 50. Q. And how many would you have working on the squash tank? EU if! . Maybe 25. Q. And those are usually different groups of people, right? A. Sometimes. Q. More often than not or about half and half or what? A. Maybe half and half. Q. Are there days you have 75 people working at the packing house between cucumbers and squash? A. Possibly on a limited basis. Q. Doesn?t happen all the time? A. No. Q. Now, picking squash in September, about how many people will you have out there picking squash? A. Maybe 75. Q. Little less than the spring crop. In spring you said it was 75 to 100? A. In September, it would be less. Q. And cucumbers, would the same people pick cucumbers that pick the squash? A. Some of the same ones. Q. About how many people do you need all together in September to pick the cucumbers and squash? That?s the best way to ask it. A. Probably 150 to 200. Q. And then do you need additional people to stake and string the peppers? A. No, correction, that would be total people to do all the work. Q. Total to do all of them. So you need it to be about 150 to 200 field workers in the month of September; would that be right? A. That?s right. Q. In October, what's going on? A. Picking squash, picking cucumbers, begin picking pepper, picking eggplant. Q. And for those four tasks all together, about how many people do you need? A. 300 to 325. Q. And then I assume the packing house is operating in October? A. That?s right. Q. About how many people do you need in the packing house in the month of October all together? A. What do you mean all together? Q. Well, how many to cover your labor needs, how many folks do you need to have working ?ka nah] the packing house to get the job done in the month of October? A. Talking washing squash and packing cucumbers and everything? Q. Everything you got going on in the packing house in October. A. Maybe 75. Q. November, what?s going on? A. Depends on the weather. Q. A lot of this I know depends on the weather. I don?t know if there's such a thing as a normal year; but whatever you think is a normal year without any catastrophes, what would you be doing in November? A. Still be picking cucumbers, picking squash, picking pepper, maybe finishing eggplant. Q. Doing anything with cabbage at this time of year? A. Maybe the very end of November. Q. To do those tasks you described in November in the field, about how many people do you need to have? A. In the field? Q. Yeah, in the field. A. Maybe 250. the packing house in that month of November, about how many people do you need total to do the various jobs that need to be performed in the packing house that monthDecember, What activities are going on on the farm? A. Some years, picking squash, picking cucumbers, generally always cutting cabbage. Q. Anything else going on or is that pretty much it for December? A. We may begin to pull a little plastic and clean up fields. Q. About how many people do you need to work on these various field tasks in the month of December? A. Maybe 200. Q. And the packing house sounds like it?s not very active in the month of December? MS. COOK: Object to the form. Q. Is that right? A. We're doing some packaging still in December. Q. How many people will you need in the packing house in December? times, 40 to 50. Q. What do you think is your the month or the period of year you need the most people in the field on the farm? Is there one period of the year that your needs are the greatest in your mind? A. Month of June. Q. And for the month of June, how many people all together do you think the farm ideally would have working on field activities? A. Around 250. Q. Now, you told me that in October you needed about 300 to 325, so is June about the same as that or a little less? A. About the same. Q. There are times you need 300 people out there ideally? A. That's total, that's field and packing house. Q. No, no, just field. Let?s just talk about field. What?s the biggest number you ever need in the field? A. Maybe as high as 300 on occasion. Q. Now, do you have any responsibilities 1? with respect to trying to line up sufficient lab for the farm for the field operations? A. Yes. Q. What do you do in that regard? A. I try to figure out what my labor needs are and try to find labor. Q. You?re ultimately the man who comes up with the best estimate of the labor needs and then you go about trying to fill them; is that right? A. That?s right. Q. How long have you been doing that part of the farm operation? A. The past ten to twelve years. Q. Have you found it easy to find labor generally? A. No. Q. Has it gotten better, worse, stayed the same over that period of time? A. It's gotten worse. Q. Any particular period of time you noticed it starting to get worse or has it just been a steady decline or steady decline in availability of labor? A. Steady decline. Q. Do you have any responsibilities for trying to see that there's sufficient labor for the packing house or does somebody else handle that? A. I pretty well handle that, too. Q. So you try to make your best estimate of how many people are needed in the packing house and then take action to try to make sure that labor is available? A. That?s right. Q. Have you had have you seen an increasing difficulty in getting labor for the packing house as well? A. Yes. Q. Now, do you have any well, let me ask you, before 1998, how did you go about getting labor for the field operations? A. The labor would just show up to the farm. Q. Well, when they showed up to the Farm, what if a worker showed up to the farm, was there were they directed to go talk to a particular person or follow a particular procedure to get a job? A. Sometimes the workers would come Sometimes they would go to directly to me. Fermin. And then if they came to you, what would you instruct them to do? A. Well, if I couldn?t if I couldn't talk to them good enough in Spanish, I would either get Brenda or Juan or Fermin or somebody that did speak good Spanish and English to help me with it. Q. And would you have them fill out some paperwork and then put them to work; is that how it worked or what? A. YES. Q. Did you handle the paperwork or did somebody in the office handle that? A. Somebody in the office. Q. Was there in the past five years, has there been one or two particular people in the office that generally handled the registration of employees? A. Yes. Q. Who are these people? A. My mother Wanda, my aunt Valda Mathis, and Colleen. Q. Do we know what Colleen?s last name is? A. Flowers. Q. Okay. And so if you?re satisfied with b1.) 1 the person, you send them to the office and they 2 handle, I assume, preparing the tax forms and that 3 sort of thing; is that right? 4 MS. COOK: Object to the form. 5 A. Repeat the question. 6 Q. Well, you talk to the person and they 7 want to work, you send them to the office; is that 8 how it works? 9 A. I generally go to the office with them. 10 Q. Who is responsible for checking their 11 immigration documents? 12 A. Whoever fills out their 1-9. 13 Q. Who would that be ordinarily? 14 A. Possibly any of those three people. 15 Q. It wouldn?t be you ordinarilywould be somebody in the office? 18 A. Right. 19 Q. And that and who would fill get a 20 form from the worker for tax purposes? 21 A. Probably Valda. 22 Q. Somebody in the office again; it 23 wouldn?t be you ordinarily? 24 A. Right. 25 Q. Do you ever ask anyone to help you find prior to 1998, did you ever ask anybody to help you find some labor? A. Yeahhelp you? A. Local Department of Labor, spoke with Georgia Department of Labor in Atlanta, spoke with Juan. Q. Who?s Juan? What?s his last name, first of all? A. del AngelHe?s just an employee on the farm that does day?to?day duties. Q. He?s a full?time employee of the farm? A That?s right. Works in the fields? A. He does all types of work. Drives a tractor, what does he do? A. Drives a tractor, anything that has to be done on the farm. Q. He?s your handyman sort of, he?s a utility player. And you ask Juan if he knew people or to ask people or what? A. That?s right, if he knew anybody, anybody looking for a job. I Labor, you talked to Juan. You talked to the Georgia Department of Did you talk to anybody else to try to get labor? A. Q. A. Talked with Fermin, the supervisor. That?s Fermin Palomares, right? Right. Talked with other growers in the area to see if they had any extra labor. Q. Department needs? 5 Q. Get any help from the Georgia of Labor in terms of meeting your Very few. Fewer than a dozen? Always. Did Juan have some success in sending some people over? A. Q. A. Q. I don?t remember. How about Fermin Palomares? I don?t remember either. Did you ever ask Brenda Palomares to put the word out and help get some people? A. Q. I don?t I don?t recall. You say that prior to ?98 most people just sort of showed up at the farm to get hired for the field jobs; is that right? A. Right. You remember when you first asked Juan and Fermin and the Georgia Department of LabOr to help you look for some labor? A. When I first asked them? Q. Yeah, about what year it was maybe. A. Maybe ?88. Q. And did you have enough ?e did you have enough people to pick the crop in ?97? A. NO. Q. How short were you? Did you lose part of the crop? Yes. How much did you lose? Probably 25 percent. And that was due to lack of labor? Right. 0 0 Had you lost_part of the crop in prior years because of lack of labor? A. At times. Q. The part that you lost, what part of the crop did you lose in ?97? Was it spring crop, fall crop, what was it? A. Some of both. Q. Were there particular points in the year that it was really tough to find labor when LI.) you needed to? A. Yes. Q. What were the tough times? A- May and June, September and October? Q. And those were some of your busiest times, right? A. Right. Q. Now, does the farm have housing for employees? Yes. Q. When was that housing built? A. Some sometime in the late ?80s. Q. Have there been additions since then? A. We built additional housing in ?97. Q. Was it available for occupancy in ?97 or wasn?t ready till the following year? A. Wasn?t ready till the following year. Q. So you had some housing for the late and you added some in ?97; is that right? A. Right. Q. Do you remember what the capacity was in ?97, how many people you could have housed since the new housing wasn?t on line yet? Ms. COOK: Object to the form. A. Maybe 125, 150. Now, I assume that one of the rules of living in housing was you had to be working for the farm; is that right? A. Right. Q. Did you charge people for the housing A. Yes. Q. What was the charge then? A. $7 a week. Q. Did you make any record prior to ?98 of how workers got referred to the farm, in other words, if they just walked in off the street or they were sent by the Department of Labor or referred by Fermin or Juan? Did you keep any record of that? A. No. Q. Do you have any sense of that labor that came prior to ?98, how it ended up at your farm, if most of it came through referrals, if it came from word of mouth, came from word of mouth from Juan or Fermin or Brenda or anyone else? Do you have any idea about that? A. Probably 95 percent were just people returning who had worked there before. Q. So you had a core group of workers who came back year after year? A. Right. Q. But you must have been losing some people if you said the numbers were going down; is that right? A. At times, we wouldyour workers return, but you would lose some. They just didn?t come back; is that right? A. Right. Q. And to get new workers since you?re only getting 5 percent new workers, it sounds like if 95 percent were returnees? A. Right, and we every year needed more workers because of growth in our operations. Q. Were you adding additional crops? A. Adding additional acreage. Q. And so you needed more people and you weren?t getting less? A. Right. MS. COOK: Object to the form. Q. Did you receive any notification from the Social Security Administration regarding the validity of the Social Security numbers of the farm's employees at any point? 4D Yes. Q. Do you recall when you received that A NO Q. Do you recall what year it was? A. To the best of my knowledge, every year. Q. And would the letter indicate to you that certain Social Security numbers didn?t match the person whose name was submitted with it, something to that sort? A. I never actually saw the papers myself, but my understanding that it would go something like 75 percent of your numbers do not match your names. Q. I Did they give you the names that didn?t match? A- No- Q. It just said you have this percent that don?t match, something like that? A. That?s right. Q. Who would handle those letters for the farm, if you know? A. Valda. Q. Would your mother get involved in that? 41 Possibly. Q. Do you know if the farm took any action as a result of receiving those letters from Social Security? A. Repeat the question. Q. Well, these letters came from Social Security. Did the farm do anything in response to those letters that you know of? A. We would reverify our records, our Social Security numbers, and check the information we was given to see if that was the same number we was given with the name we were given. Q. Beyond that, did the farm do anything that you?re aware of? A. No. Q. Now, we've talked a little about Fermin Palomares. He?s been at the farm the entire time you?ve been there; is that right? Or pretty close to it? A. Pretty close to it. Q. And he described_his job as a supervisor. Is that your view of him as well as his job? A. Yes. Q. Is he the only one in the farm in that position or are there other people at his same level or doing the same job he is? A. Brenda kind of does the same thing at the packing house that he does on the farm. Q. And what do you view Fermin?s job as with respect to the farm? A. Basically he does anything I ask him to do. 0. Well, what do you ordinarily ask him to do? A. He?s responsible for planting, getting the crops planted. He?s responsible for stringing, staking, anything that goes along during the crops, and he?s responsible for harvesting the crops. Q. NOW, when you say he?s responsible for these things, he doesn't do this work himself, does he? He doesn?t actually pick the crop himself? A. No. Q. So his responsibility is to oversee the people that are doing those jobs, make sure they?re doing them right? A- That?s right. Q. And does he have any responsibilities :43 La) with respect to the labor camp housing the farm has? A. Ed, my mother?s husband, his responsibility is to look after the labor camp and if Fermin will help him some there. If there?s a problem, Hermin will help communicate with the people to get the problem straightened out. Q. Now, Mr. Palomares told us yesterday for at least the harvesting work, he?s paid an amount based on the production that is brought out of the field and run through the packing house. Is that your understanding as well? A. That?s right. Q. And has that rate to Mr. Palomares remained constant over the last five years? In other words, is he paid the same amount for cabbage that he was paid five years ago? A. Yes. Q. And is it based on how much comes out of the field or is it based on how much comes out or is actually graded and packed? A. Depends on which crop. Q. Well, let?s start with cabbage. Let?s start field?packed cabbage. He?s paid by the number of boxes that are packed in the field; is 4% that right? with Mr. Pa the helpers some people oversee; is A. Q. using the 8 do you call A. Q. load the ca field~packe is there? A. boxes. Q. called? A- Q. That?s right. And he gets a set amount for each box That?s right. we had some confusion, I think, NOW, lomares as to exactly what is done with and whether first of all, he has out there in the field that help that right? That?s right. What do you call that job so we?re all Do you call that checker or ame words? that u- I call them a checker. And there?s nobody required to load or bbage in the field when it?s d, there?s not a loader or a driver or Yeah, there?s people that stack the What do you call them? What?s that job A stacker. So we got stackers, we?ve got checkergl we?ve got people who are cutting and packing the cabbage. Who else do we have out there in the cabbage field? A- That?s all. Q. The rate that Mr. Palomares receives for cabbage, dOes that include the pay that neeas to be given to the stackers and the checkers? A. I don?t understand your question. Q. Well, I think Mr. Palomares was saying he got 55 cents for cabbage. Does that sound about right to you? A. No. Q. What does he receive for cabbage? A. The cutter receives 55 cents and the people the guys, the checker and the stacker, are paid $6.30 an hour and then Fermin?s there?s if I?m not mistaken, there?s 30 cents in addition to the 55 cents. There?s 30 cents, The checkers and the stackers and Fermin?s pay comes out of the 30 cents. Q. So there?s 30 cents set aside to pay Fermin, the stackers, and the checkers; is that right? A- That?s right. Q. And I assume somebody calculates out how many hours the checkers and stackers have worked at the hourly rate and take that money out and give the remainder to Fermin. Is that how it works? A. That?s right. And is that done in the office? A. No, the checker is responsible for keeping up with that information. Q. But who actually does a? figures out how much the checkers? check should be and Fermin?s check should be? Is that done in the office? A. That?s done in the office. Q. And so the farm writes a check to the stackers directly; is that right? A. That?s right. Q. Fermin?s not responsible for cashing his check and then going and paying the stacker? A. No. Q. Is that the way it?s worked for the last five years, that sort of system, even though the prices may have changed A. Yes. Q. And the checkers and stackers have always been paid on an hourly basis and Mr. Palomares has been paid based on the volume harvested; is that right? A. Yes. Q. The cabbage now, let?s go to cucumbers. in the cucumber field, we've got a picker and we have dumpers as well? A. Right. Q. Do you call them dumpers or do you have another term for them? A. Dumpers is fine. Q. Okay. DO we have checkers out there? A. Yes. Q. Who else do we have out in the cucumber field? A. That?s all. Q. And in cucumbers, how much does the picker get? A. I?m not for certain. Q. How much is paid to Mr. Palomares in that arrangement? A. I?m not sure there either. Q. Is it done the same way you described cabbage? In other words, there?s a set amount per bucket of cucumbers paid; and from that amount, the checkers and the dumpers are paid with the left~over residual going to Mr. Palomares; is that how it works? A. Right. Q. Do you know if the dumpers and Checkers for cucumbers are paid by the hour? A. Yes. Q. So the more picked, the more money Mr. Palomares should make; is that right? More buckets that are harvested? A. Theoretically, right. Q. Theoretically, right, it doesn?t work that way in practice sometimes? A. NO. Q. What happens in practice to not make that work out? A. I don?t really know, to tell you the truth. It don't always work out like that, though. Q. Is squash paid the same fashion with respect to Mr. Palomares? A. Yes. Q. And in the squash field, do we have dumpers and checkers as well? A. Yes. Q. So we have dumpers, checkers, and k9 pickers in squash. We got anybody else out there doing the squash harvest? A. We don't have dumpers. We just have a checker. Q. So is Mr. Palomares paid a certain amount based on the number of buckets of squash pickedpaid in squash? A. He?s paid on a packeout box basis. Q. So as I understand that sort of system, in the packing house, there?s a count made after the grade has occurred and you pack the squash and you count up the number of boxes that have been actually packed and are ready for sale and he?s paid based on that number; is that right? A. That?s right. Q. And he?s paid so much per box after the pack?outs; is that right? A. Yes. Q. Does it work well in squash, does the amount generated to Mr. well, let?s start over. How is the checker paid in squash? A. He?s paid by the hour. Q. And is that money taken out of the number that?s allocated to Mr. Palomares and the non?pickers? A. Right. Q. Similar to what you described in cucumbers and cabbage? A. Similar. Q. Eggplant, how does that work? Is he paid on a pack?out basis or a field?count basis? A. Pack?out basis. Q. Same as you described for squash? A. Right. Q. And in the eggplant harvest, we have checkers. Do we have dumpers, do we have stackers, or do we have anybody else or just A. Just checkers. Q. Okay. And peppers, how is that how does Mr. Palomares? compensation go on peppers? A. Just paid on a pack?out basis. Q. Similar to what you described for squash and eggplant? A. Right. Q. Are there dumpers in peppers? A. Yes. Q. Checkers as well? A. Yes. U'i the compensation to the dumpers and checkers handled in a manner similar to what you described in squash and eggplant? A. Yes. Q. Mr. Palomares lives near the labor camp; is that right? A. That?s right. Q. Does he live in a facility or a residence owned by either Hamilton Growers or Southern Valley? A. No. It's his own personal residence? A. Right. - Q. He doesn?t pay any money to the company for use of that property? A. No. Q. At some point, I understand the farm decided to participate in the program; is that correct? A. Right. Q. What prompted that decision? A. Shortage of labor and problems with Social Security numbers with the labor we did have. Q. So these letters you?re talking about K) from Social Security? A. Right. Q. And you indicated you lost about 25 percent of the crop in ?97 because of labor shortage? A. Right. Q. So how did you hear about the program? A. Through the Department of Labor. State or federal? A. I don?t remember. Do you remember the person who you first talked to about it? A. No. Q. So you heard about it, then what did the farm do to pursue the matter? A. We looked into it for a number of years and contemplated using it. Finally we come to a point where we had to use it. Q. What was it that was sort of the straw that broke the camel's back, the thing that forced you to use it? A. We lost 25 percent of our crop in ?97. Q. Was that the worst crop loss you ever had due to labor shortage? 5J1 L-J Yes. Q. So you concluded you needed to pursue this program. What did the farm do to move the process along? A. We began talking to local Department of Labor and Department of Labor in Atlanta- Q. Do you recall the people you Spoke with? A. I spoke with Sherri Sparks. Q. Anyone else? A. Spoke with Kay Moncrieffe in Moultrie. Q. Anyone else? A. That's all I recall. Q. What did they tell you about the program? A. They just explained to me how the program worked, what the qualifications were, what was involved with it, just in general how the program worked. Q. They apparently didn?t sufficiently discourage you from pursuing it, so you kept going; is that right? MS. COOK: Object to the form. MR. HALL: Object to the form. A. That?s right. U1 MR. HALL: Argumentative. Q. After you talked to Ms. Moncrieffe and Ms. Sparks, what happened next? A. We continued to investigate it for a couple of years. Q. Well, after ?97, you said things just got so bad you felt you had to really enter the program; is that right? A. Things were progressively worse from about ?94; and from that somewhere along in there, we began to look into the Q. Well, you said that '97 was particularly bad? A. Right. Q. So at what point did you decide that the farm had to participate in the program? A. In the fall of ?97. Q. And what did you do at that point? What did the farm do at that point to pursue the program and begin participation in it? A. We went to local meetings that the Labor Department would hold which was generally in the wintertime, continued talking with the Department of Labor, that's about all. Q. Did you w? did the farm ultimately apply for H-ZA workers for the ?98 season? A. Yeah. Q. Well, you?d gone to these meetings with the Department of Labor you described probably in the winter and ultimately before the ?98 season and application was filed on the farm?s behalf to obtain workers; is that right? A. Right. Q. Now, did the farm complete that application itself? A. No. Q. Who assisted the farm in that? A. I Georgia Growers Association. Q. When was the first time the farm had any contact with the Georgia Growers Association? A. Sometime during ?97- Q. Do you recall what was the nature of that first contact with the organization? A. I don?t understand your question. Q. Well, when was the first time you talked with someone from Georgia Growers Association? A. Well, at the time, there was no Georgia Growers Association. A small group of farmers began talking about some type of association. Setting up something like that; is that right? A. Right. Q. Now. did you attend a meeting at Mr. Grimes? farm about setting up such an association? A. Yes. Q. Was Dan Bremer there? A. Yes. Q. What was discussed at that meeting? A. We further discussed advantages and disadvantages of Discussed Dan told us a little more about the paperwork concerning filing applications, told us more about the whole program and we talked about forming a group as a group and that?s when we formed the Georgia Growers Association. Q. Who were the other folks involved in forming the Growers Association? A. Myself, Wanda Hamilton, Gibbs Patrick and Bill Brim and Dan Bremer. Q. And did you have a meeting after that meeting at Mr. Grimes? to further discuss the application process? A meeting with Mr. Bremer? A. At Mr. Grimes?? Q. No, not at Mr. Grimes?. A meeting at Lewis Taylor Farms? A. Repeat the question. Q. Well, did you have a meeting after this meeting at Mr. Grimes?, did you have a subsequent meeting at Lewis Taylor Farms to further discuss the application process? A. I believe we did. Q. Do you remember what went on at that meeting? A. We further discussed setting up the Georgia Growers Association and talked more about in general. Q. Did you discuss engaging the service of Mr. Bremer to help with the paperwork? A. Yes. Q. Was an agreement reached at that meeting as to how much would be paid to Mr. Bremer for his services? A. I?m not sure if it was at that meeting or not. Q. Did Mr. Bremer ultimately assist Hamilton Growers in filing its applications for 1998? A. Yes. Q. And let me ask you, Georgia Growers Association, are there dues paid to the Georgia Growers Association by the members? A. Explain what due what do you mean by dues? Q. Let?s do it another way. Mr. Bremer, I assume, was paid something for his services in assisting the members of the Georgia Growers Association; is that right? A. Right. Q. And was he paid through the Georgia Growers Association or did each farm write a check to Mr. Bremer? A. I?m not sure about that. Q. Did Hamilton Growers pay any money for the assistance Mr. Bremer provided in 1998? A. Yes. Q. And how much was that? A. I don?t know those Eigures. Q. Did all of the farms that were using Mr. Bremer?s service pay the same or did it vary based on the number of workers involved? A. I don't remember just how they worked. Q. Would your mother be likely to know that information? A. Probably so. According to the job order that was filed for by Georgia Growers Association on behalf of several farms including Hamilton Growers and Southern Valley Fruit and Vegetable, a total of 335 workers were requested for that year 1998. Does that sound right to you? A. Q. Yes. Now, it lists both companies. Is there any reason why it lists both companies as people who needed labor or entities that needed labor? A- Q. I don?t know. There were some HHZA workers admitted in 1998 to work on the operations of Hamilton Growers; A. Q. is that right? Right. Were there any that came in 1998 that worked for Southern Valley? A. . Q. that? Q. I don?t know the answer to that. Would your mother be likely to know Yes. How let me ask this: How were Southern Valley and Hamilton Growers going to locate alien workers to be the workers for the farm in 1998? How was that going to be 1 handled? 2 MS. COOK: Object to the form. 3 A. Well, it's always been my understanding 4 through talking with the workers on the farm that 5 there was plenty of workers that foreign 6 workers that would want to come. It wouldn't be a 7 problem to find foreign workers to come and work 8 on a work visa. 9 Q. But, well, let me ask you, if you had 10 only half of the 33S appear, would that create a 11 problem for the farm? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Could you lose crop that way? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q- So did the farm do anything to make 16 sure that you had at least 335 people lined up to 17 go if the need arose? 18 MR. HALL: Object to the form. 19 A. Repeat the question. 20 Q. Well, did the farm do anything to 21 insure that you had 335 potential workers 22 available to come work for the farm in 1998? 23 MS. COOK: Object to the form. 24 A. I began talking with, as I said, with 25 some of the workers that was working on the farm then at the time and they gave me some names of some people, friends and relatives, and pretty soon there was people calling us. We wasn?t having to call. Q. People were calling, when you ?aalling us, calling the farm? A. Calling the farm. Q. Were they calling from abroad calling from within the MR. HALL: Object to the form. A. Calling from both, if I?m not Q. And was there somebody in the with the farm that handled most of those 1998? We wasn?t having to find them. say mistaken. office or calls in A. Yes, well, a lot of those calls would come directly to my mobile phone in my truck. Some of those people would call Fermin. those people would call Juan. There was Some of several different ones there that said the people that were calling knew, you know, they would contact those people first. Q. Was there any effort made to drop a list of all these folks who called in who were interested in the job? A. Yes. C?fx ii.) Who drew up the list? Myself, Fermin, Brenda, Juan helped some with it, and that?s all. Q. A. Q. I take it you speak some Spanish? Rightone single list, the information that had come from Juan and Brenda and you and Fermin? A. Q. I don?t know about that. You don?t know if there was ever a final list put together of names and addresses of people before the workers arrived? A. list. there was a group of lists, Yeah, at some point, there was a final At some point, there was a final list where you know, the group of people that we wanted. Q. A. Q. prepared? A. Q. Did that add up to the 335? Yeah. Where was that list, that final list, In the office or do you know? I don?t remember that. And what was done with that final list, if anything? A. Q. It was given to Dan Bremer. Now, this was before the workers ?3 31A.) arrived, of course; is that right? A. Right. Q. And why was it given to Dan Bremer? A. Because Dan was in charge of writing up the work order and in charge of taking care of the paperwork at the border and the work with the consulate?s office. Q. And did you have-eventually 335 workers, workers, show up on the farm to work? A. I'm not exactly sure- Q. A number of them came, though; is that correct? A. Oh, yeah. Q. The people who came, were they people whose names appeared on the list? A. Most of them. Q. The workers that came, did some of them work in the packing house? A. Yeah. Q. And some worked in the field; is that right? A. Yes. Q. Did you ask Fermin Palomares to be present at the Embassy when the first group of workers was coming in to see that everything went according to plan? A. I don?t remember. I remember talking about it, but I don?t remember exactly what if I asked him or really what happened. Q. Do you recall tolling Mr. Palomaree the date on which the workers were scheduled to appear for their interviews in Monterrey? A. Yes. Q. And did you receive a call from Mr. Palomares asking that some information regarding the job be sent to him by facsimile while he was in Monterrey? A. I I didn?t handle any of that. Were you asked to advance Q. Fair enough. any money to the workers in 1998 for the cost of their visas? A. Yes. Q. Who asked you to do that? A. Fermin had called back when he was in Monterrey and had said that some of the people were having trouble coming up with the money. Q. And so what did you do at that point? A. I talked with Dan Bremer. Q. And what did you and Mr. Bremer discuss? A. I think Dan Bremer needed to do some checking with the Labor Department maybe to find out if it was okay for us to do that. Q. Did Mr. Bremer then get back to you and tell you the results of his investigation? A. Yes. Q. What did he tell you? A. He told us that it was we it would be okay to advance the money we advanced. Q. So was an advance made? A. Yes. Q. Do you know if the advance came from Hamilton Growers or Southern Valley? A. I don?t know. Q. Do you recall how much money was advanced? A. I don?t recall the total amount, but I believe it was $151 a person. Q. Was that a figure Mr. Bremer indicated to you was the amount needed? MS. COOK: Objection, mischaracterizes the testimony. A. Mr. Bremer, I think, indicated that was the maximum amount that we could lend. 65 Mexico? 0 as to what A. How did you get that money down to I believe it was wired. Was it wired to Mr. Bremer? No. Who was it wired to? It was wired to Fermin. And were there instructions to Fermin he should do with that money? Fermin had a list of people who were on our list that we wanted to come that didn?t have sufficient Q. money. And was he instructed to give the funds to those folks? A. Q. A. Q. YES. As far as you know, did he do that? Yes. Now, those monies that were advanced, were they ever recouped from the worker once the worker came to the farm? A. Q. pay? As far as I know, they were. Were they deducted from the workers' As far as I know, they were. Who would know for certain? Your mother? A. Probably Mother. Q. How many workers received advances? Do you know? A. I don't know that. Q. Was Fermin sent the list of the workers who needed assistance that were part of the group that had been selected by the company so he knew which workers to give the money to? MR. HALL: Object to the form, mischaracterizes the testimony. A. I I don?t know. Q. Well, how was Fermin made aware or which workers should receive the advance? MR. HALL: Object to the form. A. Well, somehow somehow he had the list, the list of the workers that we wanted. Q. Right. A. And then he had obviously he had another list of some people he was talking to at the time there that said they didn?t have the money. Q. So he already had that information, which workers needed additional funds? A. I guess he did. an 1 MR. HALL: Object to the form, calls 2 for speculation. 3 Q. That isn?t something that the farm 4 prepared as far as you know? 5 A. I don?t know that. 6 Q. Had the farm asked Fermin to he there 7 to handle a problem like this at the consulate? 8 A. I remember discussing it as I said 9 while ago, but I don?t remember if he was 10 specifically asked or I don't remember just how 11 that was handled. 12 Q. As it turned out, were you pleased that 13 Mr. Palomares was present to handle the matter? 14 A. Yes. 15 MR. HALL: Object to the form. 16 Q. Is Mr. Palomares issued a at the 17 end of the year or a Form 1099? 18 A. I don?t know the answer to that. 19 Q. Your mom might know that? 20 A. Probably so, yes. 21 Q. That?s not your department, the 22 payroll, all right. Now, are you aware that Mr. 23 Palomares was registered for a number of years as 24 a farm labor contractor? 25 A. Yes. Did you check his registration each year? A. I personally didn?t. Q- Did somebody on the farm check it as far as you know? A. I don?t know for sure- Q. Was that something you were concerned about in your role with the farm, that he was registered? MR. HALL: Object to the form. A. No, not particularly. Q. Why weren?t you concerned if he was registered as a farm labor contractor? MR. HALL: Object to the form. A. Because Fermin had always worked for us there on the farm just for us and, you know, I didn?t believe he fit the description of a farm labor contractor. Q. Did you ever talk to anybody with the Labor Department or anyplace else about whether Fermin needed to register as a farm labor contractor? A. I don?t remember if I ever talked with anybody. I know at some point during Fermin?s employment with us that the question arose that he 7O may need to register as a farm labor contractor. Q. How did that come up? A. I don?t know that. Q. And the question came up, what did the farm do, if anything? A. I don?t really remember how that was handled. Q. Well, now, you say you had concluded that you didn't think he met the definition. Why is that? MS. COOK: Asked and answered. A. Because as I said, he worked for'us and only us. Q. And as long as he worked exclusively for your farm, you believed that he did not need J..- to register as a farm labor contractor; is that right? A. Well, I believed he did not fit the description of a farm labor contractor. Q. And in what sense he didn?t meet the definition? A. Because he worked for me, only for me. He didn?t have any involvement in paying the people. The farm always paid the people. He worked more as a supervisor than as somebody that 71 would consider a contractor to take care of my labor. Q. Anything else that led you to that conclusion? A. Not that I recall. Q. The HH2A MS. COOK: If you?re at a stopping point, I could use a break. (A recess was taken.) BY MR. SCHELL: Q. Mr. Hamilton, in 1998, did all the workers that came to work for Hamilton Growers or Southern Valley arrive at roughly the same time within a few days of each other or were there different groups that arrived at different points in the season? A. Best I remember, there were different groups. Q. Do you recall how many groups arrived? A. No. Q. The first group when you talked about sending the money or wiring the money to Fermin in Mexico, was that with respect to the first group that came or a later group? A. I believe that was the first group. l- um, In you recall how large that contingent was that arrived with that first group? A. I don?t understand your question. Q. Well, how many people came in the first group? A. I don?t remember that either- want to say at least 40 or 50. Q. Might have been more? A. Might have been. Q. The farm, I assume, would have records that would Show that somewhere? A. I would think so. Q. Now, with regard to the 1998 season, who on the farm or working for the farm was responsible for recruitment efforts aimed at U.S. workers? A. I was involved in that and some of the ladies in the office would have been involved in that. Q. What did you do in 1998 to recruit U.S. workers to fill the labor needs of the farm? A. I spoke to the same people that I had spoken to in previous years about labor such as Juan, Fermin, other farmers, Georgia Department of Labor about workers for the ?98 season. Now, when you say when you talked to Juan, what did you what was the substance of that discussion with respect to recruitment of U.S. workers? A. I told him that we was we was needing workers and that we had had problems with Social Security numbers not being correct and in previous meetings through the year we had had I had attended meetings where U.S. immigration officials were there and they warned all of us growers that we needed to make sure we had a legal work force. Q. Did you ask Juan to do anything in terms of finding U.S. workers? A. And after having those meetings, after being to those meetings with U.S. immigration officials, I told Juan that we were going to have to start checking Social Security numbers. Q. So you informed him that would be the procedure. Did you tell him to do anything to go recruit or locate U.S. workers? A. Well, I told him that if he knew anybody or if he heard of anybody, any people, that was looking for a job that, you know, we would be hiring. 74 Does Juan?s position on the farm have a name? A. No. Q. Does he do the same job as Fermin does or a different job? A. He does some of the same job. Q. Does he help supervise the harvest on occasion? A. Sometimes. Q. Is he paid when he supervises the harvest in the same fashion as you described for Mr. Palomares? A. No. Q. Is he paid by the hour or on a salary or how is he paid? A. He?s paid by the hour- Q. Now, you said you also talked to Fermin Palomares about recruitment of U.S. workers. A. Right. It's my understanding that the office sent Fermin a letter requesting, you know, any workers that he knew that or could get in contact with that had worked for us before that, you know, to let them know that we were looking for workers by the same case there that, you know, we would need to verify Social Security numbers. \1 U1. you know if the farm did a mailing to the previous year?s employees about opportunities with the farm? A. I don?t think we did because I think the only address we had was the address of the camp when they lived here. Q. Who was responsible to get the filled out when the workers were registered for the ?97 season when people came and went on the payroll? A. That would have been Valda. Q. And as far as you know, none of the workers from the ?97 season had offered any address when they were hired other than that of the labor camp? A. I I don?t know the answer to that information. Q. Let me just raise something. You said the capacity of the labor camp in 1997 was less than 200? A. Right. Q. But you indicated that you the farm employs well in excess of 200 people at various points during the year? A. Right. there had to have been some people who you had in ?97 who weren?t living in the labor camp; am I right on that? A. Right, right. Q. What did those, if you know I mean, was there any effort made to get addresses for those folks? I didn?t handle that Do you know where the so I don't know. 0 Do you know what address is used for the W?2s or was used for the ?97 forms that were sent out to employees? A. No. Q. Somebody like Valda would know that? A. Yes. Q. Okay, so you spoke to Fermin, you spoke to Juan, you say you spoke to other farmers and that was to find out if they had some extra labor? A. Right. Which farmers did you talk to? A I spoke with Joe and Terry Baker. Q. Did they have any labor for you? A No. Anyone else? a] labor? A. Q. A. I spoke with Mobley Plant Company. What?s the name of the company, please? Mobley Plant Company. Is that a nursery? Yeah. Were they any assistance in getting No. Who else did you speak with? I don?t recall the names of the others I spoke with. Q. Now, you say you also spoke with the Georgia Department of Labor? 2 A. A A. A Right. And was that the local office? YES . Were they able to refer you any folks? Maybe a small amount. Was it less than a dozen? Again, I don't know. I didn?t handle the registering of the people. Q. Did some people come to work for the farm that you learned had been referred by the job service for the ?98 harvest? A. What do you mean job service? Well, through the Georgia Department of Labor? A. For the ?98 harvest? 0. Yeah, ?98 season. A. Yes. Q. And you don't know how many of those people? A. No, I don?t know how many. Q. Did any of them last the whole season? A. I don?t know the answer to that either. Q. So I want to make sure I understand everything that you personally did with respect to recruitment of U.S. workers for the ?98 harvest. You talked to Juan, you talked to Fermin, you talked to some farmers in the area, you talked to Did you do the Georgia Department of Labor. anything else? A. Me as a person? Q. Yes. A. No, I didn?t. Q. Do you know any other things the farm did besides those activities you described that you personally did? A. I don?t know anything directly that the farm did, no. 79 Now, was that part of what Mr. Bremer was supposed to work on, he was supposed to help in that effort? A. That?s right. Q. Were you ever informed that some farm labor contractors in Florida were interested in the job? A. Yes. Q. Were you informed of that prior to this lawsuit being filed? A. Yes. Q. How did you learn about that? A. My mother had spoken with someone concerning this in Florida and she had told me about it. Q. Did you learn that a fee of $8 per worker was being offered to the contractors in Florida for recruiting labor? A. Yes. Q. Were you aware of that when did you become aware of that? Was it roughly at the time it occurred or was it much later after this had all transpired? A. I think at the time it occurred. Did you ever make any effort to 80 increase that fee offered to the farm labor contractors in Florida? A. I didn?t talk with farm labor contractors in Florida. Q. Did you ever talk to your mother or anyone else about maybe offering a little more? A. No. Q. Why was that? A. Because Dan Bremer had come up with the $8 figure and it was my understanding that he had run it past the Department of Labor and it was in agreement that that $8 figure was a fair price. Q. And the law didn't require you to pay any more was your understanding? MR. HALL: Object to the form. MS. COOK: Object to the form. A. I don?t know what the law required. Q. Well, but based on the information you had received from Mr. Bremer you concluded that the offer made was acceptable; is that right? A. That?s right. Q. And so in ?98, Mr. Palomares when he was doing his job supervising, he was supervising primarily workers; is that right? A. He was supervising all workers who were CC.) -.3 workers and domestic workers who had either been referred through the Department of Labor or who had come to the employment some other way. Q. How many domestic workers were there in 1998 that Mr. Palomares would have been supervising? A. I don?t know the answer to that. Q. More than a dozen? A. I would think so, but I?m not certain. Q. There are probably records the farm has that would allow us to determine that? A. Yes. Q. Now, Brenda Palomares, she was the overseer, the supervisor in the packing house; is that right? A. Right. Q. And there were some workers working in the packing house; is that correct? A. That?s right. Q. And were there any domestic workers working in the packing house in 1998? A. I don?t know. Q. Again, the company might have records that would help us answer that question? A. I would think so. part of your recruitment of U.S. workers in 1998, did your farm ever offer bus tickets to U.S. workers who wanted to come to work on the farm? A. No. Q. Were you ever asked by anyone to provide bus tickets to allow U.S. workers to come from their homes to the farm to work for the '98 season? A. I was never asked. Q. Would the farm have would the farm have been willing to do that? A. No. Q. Why not? A. Because it had been our understanding Erom Dan Bremer that advancing transportation was not something we could do. Q. Did the farm ever offer $151 cash advance to any U.S. workers who wanted to come work for the farm in 1998? A. Not that I know of. Q. Would the farm have been willing to do that? A. I don?t know if we would or not. I would have had to talked to Dan. 83 Now, you described how you got the worker list drawn up in 1998. Has that worked pretty much the same way since that time for subsequent years? A. Yes. Q. And from various sources, you develop a list and then that?s submitted and those are the workers who come up as A. Right. Q. Who is that list submitted to? Is it still submitted to Dan Bremer? A. Yes. Q. You ever met anyone called Ricardo Rodriguez? A. No. Q. Do you know who Ricardo Rodriguez is? A. No. The workers that came to work for the farm in 1998, those workers who stayed up to the 50 percent point of the contract, did they have their transportation expenses, their inbound transportation expenses, reimbursed at that point? To the best of my knowledge, they did. Q. And how did the company learn as to the amount of the cost the workers had incurred in. 84 coming to the farm? Did somebody inform the farm of that information or do you know? A. It was a figure that Dan Bremer had given ustell you do you remember what the figure was? A. No. Q. And whatever it was, that?s what the farm paid; is that right? A. That?s right. Q. Did you ever talk to Dan Bremer saying that the rates seemed a little on the high side? A. No. Q. Have you had any discussion since than asking about these transportation charges as to whether they could be cut down a little? A. Yes. Q. Who did you have those conversations with? A. With Dan. Q. What did he tell you, if anything, about that? A. He was going to talk with the bus company we were using and see if they could give us a cheaper rate. A L, Did that happen? A. Seemed like they give us a cheaper rate, return rate, taking the people back home. Q. But the inbound rate stayed high? MS. COOK: Object to the form. A. don?t know if it changed any or not. Q. Now, does Southern Valley or Hamilton Growers provide any transportation itself for its employees? In other words, do you have buses, vans, or anything to transport the employees? A. Transport them Q. Anyplace. A. Hamilton Growers has some buses that we transport the people. Q. And where do you transport them from? The housing facility to the field they?re working in? A. Yes, from the housing to the fields, to the packing house, and to town, to Moultrie, to WaluMart or the grocery store. Q. So they can go shopping? A. Right. Q. And have you had vehicles used for those purposes for a number of years? A. Yeah. Did you add some vehicles in recent years or have you had pretty much the same number for the past five years? A. We just we just got into transporting the workers ourselves in ?98. Q. in ?98 A. Q. buses? A. And how many vehicles did you purchase for the farm? Three buses. And how did you go about finding those We bought them. We knew of a company in McRae that sold used buses. Q. A. Q. that kinds of stuff for themdrives buses. So you took care of that yourself? Yes. And you got all the insurance and all is that right? That?s right. You handle that yourself? That?s right. The drivers for those buses, who do you drivers? Fermin drives. And I think Brenda the two buses. I thought you said there were three sf There are three buses but really one was a spare. Q. So two run at any one time? A. That?s right. Q. And you took care of making sure they had any special driver's licenses or anything that they needed for that} is that right? A. Right, that's right. Q. And you say you started building the addition to the housing in ?97; is that right? You started building it? A. Right. Q. Do you remember what month it was started in ?97? A. Maybe September. Q. And the plans had all been approved by that point, right? A. That?s right. Q. And since that addition you?ve added, have you added any more housing for the workers? A. No. Q. And you handle the plans and all that yourself and made sure all that got approved and that sort of thing? A. That?s right. 88 And are you the person that makes sure that the housing gets inspected and the right permits every year? A. Q. A. Q. No. Who handled that? My mother, Wanda and her husband, Ed. Okay, fair enough. Does Mr. Bremer come by the farm every now and then? 9 Q. discussion farm? A. Q. something, A. Yes. Do you talk to him when he does? If I?m around. What do you talk about when he's there? Ask him how he's doing. Sort of just small talk? Yeah, for the most part. Any ever have any substantive with Mr. Bremer when he comes by the Any what kind? Substantive, more than small talk about more substantive. Well, he would come by when legal services would come to talk with the people and he would come right and there wasn?t any problems. and, you know, make sure everything was He would 89 10 13come by and check our housing, make sure everything was fine there. Sometimes he would come by with business concerning the Georgia Growers and Q. Have you have you had any conversation with Dan Bremer when he suggested ways that you can better run your business? A. No. Q. From a management standpoint? A. No. Q. Your company has for as long as you?ve been there handled the payroll for the field workers; is that right? A. Right. Q. Is it a computerized system? A. Yes. Q. Would your mother know a lot more about that than you do or do you know a fair amount about it? A. No, she would know more than me. Q. Okay, well, I?ll save you from that. You described how Mr. Palomares is paid for his various jobs. He?s been paid in the same fashion for at least the last five years; is that right? A. That?s right. KO MR. SCHELL: I don?t have anything further. (Off the record.) MS. COOK: I have no questions. (WHEREUPON, the deponent having 'reserved the Leading and signing of the deposition, the taking of the deposition was concluded at approximately the same date.) I I A 2 3 GEORGIA, TIFT COUNTY 4 I, Heather L. Coffey, Certified Court Reporter and Notary Public, do hereby certify that 5 pursuant to the stipulations entered into herein by counsel for the respective parties, KENT TODD 6 HAMILTON was by me first duly sworn to testify the - whole truth and, upon oral examination, testified 7 as hereinbefore shown on pages 4 through 91, inclusive, and the same was taken on the 8 stenograph machine.and was thereafter under my direction transcribed into computer?assisted 9 transcription. 10 I further certify that said deposition was taken at the time and place stated herein and, 11 further, that I am neither kin nor counsel for either of the parties in said suit and in no wise 12 interested in the event of the cause. 13 I further certify that I am this day filing said deposition with GREGORY S. SCHELL, counsel 14 for the Plaintiffs. 15 WITNESS my hand and official seal this _m day of 2000. 6 17 I8 19 20 Heather L. Coffey, CCR 21 Notary Public Certificate Number 22 23 My commission expires: 24 August 22, 2003 25 92 Deposition of KENT TODD HAMILTON ERRATA SHEET I do hereby certify that I have read all questions propounded to me and all answers given by me and that: 1) There are no changes noted. 2) The following changes are noted: Corrections to be made pursuant to Rule 30(7)(e) of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure and/or Georgia Code Annotated both which read in part: Any changes in form or substanCe which you desire to make shall be entered upon the a statement of the reasons given for making them. Accordingly, to assist you in effecting the corrections, please use the form below: Page No. Line No. should read: And the reason for the change is: Page No. Line No. should read: And the reason for the change is: Page No. Line No. should read: And the reason for the change is: Page No. Line No. should read: And the reason for the change is: KO (A)