1 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 FOR THE DEFENDANT, VERSUS UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA AMERICAN SOCIETY FOR THE PREVENTION OF CRUELTY TO ANIMALS, CIVIL ACTION NO. 03-2006 WASHINGTON,D.C. THURSDAY, MARCH 5, 2009 2:30 P.M. FELD ENTERTAINMENT, INC., DAY 16 TRANSCRIPT OF BENCH TRIAL - AFTERNOON SESSION BEFORE THE HONORABLE EMMET G. SULLIVAN UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT JUDGE A P P E A R A N C E S: FOR THE PLAINTIFF, KATHERINE A. MEYER, ESQ. TANYA SANERIB, ESQ. ERIC GLITZENSTEIN, ESQ. HOWARD CRYSTAL, ESQ. DELCIANNA WINDERS, ESQ. Meyer,Glitzenstein & Crystal 1601 Connecticut Avenue,N.W. Suite 700 Washington, DC 20009 202-364-4092 LISA JOINER, ESQ. KARA PETTEWAY, ESQ. JOHN SIMPSON, ESQ. MICHELLE PARDO, ESQ. LANCE SHEA, ESQ. Fulbright & Jaworski,LLP 801 Pennsylvania Avenue Washington, DC 20004 202-662-4504 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 2 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 EXHIBITS: Exhibit 168 Exhibit 326 Exhibit 192-A Exhibit 76 Exhibit 76-A FEI Exhibit 334 Exhibit 335 Exhibit 336 Exhibit 337 Exhibit 338 5 9 9 76 76 84 87 88 96 99 WITNESSES: Carrie Coleman.......... BY MS. JOINER...... BY MS. SANERIB..... GARY JACOBSON........... BY MS. JOINER...... 26 PAGE: 3, 24 10 I N D E X Proceedings recorded by mechanical stenography. Transcript produced by computer-aided transcription. REPORTED BY: WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 333 Constitution Avenue,NW Room #6718 Washington, DC 20001 202-354-3111 WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Counsel just asked you which elephants you thought were Who would be in a involved in the fight. Let me ask you this: better position to know the identity of the elephants involved; would it be you or one of the handlers? A. Q. Obviously, one of the handlers that was involved. And the question was asked about Mr. Houcke and what he Do you think that Mr. Houcke was doing with that elephant. was causing any injury or pain to that elephant? A. Q. No. I believe you just said -- did you report this incident to Dr. Wiedner? A. Q. Yes. Was it your job as a vet tech to double check whatever Dr. Wiedner had reported to her to see if it made it into the medical records? A. No. MS. JOINER: Nothing further, Your Honor. THE COURT: All right. Any other questions? MS. SANERIB: THE COURT: down. No, Your Honor. Thank you. You may step All All right. Please do not discuss your testimony with anyone. right? Thank you. Watch your step. MS. JOINER: * * Call your next witness. We call Gary Jacobson, Your Honor. * * GARY JACOBSON, called as a witness in this case, WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 26 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 after having been duly sworn, testified as follows: * * * * THE COURT: Good afternoon. THE WITNESS: MS. JOINER: Hello. Please the Court. DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. JOINER: Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Would you please state and spell your name for us? Gary Jacobson; G-A-R-Y; J-A-C-O-B-S-O-N. And by whom are you currently employed? Feld Entertainment. Where do you work? The CEC, Center for Elephant Conservation. Have you ever handled elephants, Mr. Yes, I have. What does it mean to handle an elephant? It means to deal with them in the same space, lead them, Jacobson? feed them, water them, just take care of them. Q. A. Q. And how long have you been handling elephants? Since 1972. How old were you when you first started handling elephants? A. Q. Twenty-two. And what kind of handling method did you first use with elephants? A. Hands on. WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 27 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. And what do you mean when you say "hands-on"? It means you share the same space with the elephant. And is "free contact" another name for "hands-on handling"? A. Q. Yes, it is. Okay. And what tools, if any, are used with free contact handling? A. Q. Any number of tools; a guide or a bull hook. And let me just stop you right there. What do you call it, guide, bull hook? A. Q. A. I call it a "stick", normally. What is the purpose of the stick? It's so you can handle an elephant in a free contact environment. Q. A. Q. A. Is it a generally accepted tool? Yes, it is. Worldwide. How, if at all, are voice commands used with the guide? Voice commands are used first. You know they would tell them something once or twice and then back it up with a guide. Q. Are you aware of any other institutions, aside from Feld Entertainment, that use a guide? A. All circuses, all zoos that are hands-on, and throughout Europe and Asia. Q. Okay. A couple of demonstratives that we have here Jacobson? today; do you recognize this guide, Mr. WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 28 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Yes. That belongs to me. This is your permanent guide? Yes. And how often do you use this? Normally, every day. Okay. Yes. What is this? That's a company stick. They're made for Feld And do you recognize this? Entertainment. Q. Okay. THE COURT: You probably should give them some numbers because the record doesn't reflect any numbers; that's 325 I believe. BY MS. JOINER: Q. Okay. This is 325, and we can mark the white one, his, as -- as long as we can give it back to him at some point -327. THE COURT: All right. BY MS. JOINER: Q. A. Q. And were you present for the inspection at the CEC? Yes. Were all of the guides that are used at the CEC presented for inspection for the plaintiffs in this case? A. Yes. The ones that are on site, yes. WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 29 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. Okay. Did that include these two? Yes. Have you had an opportunity to see the guides that are used in the Blue Unit? A. Q. Yes. And can you tell us, please, how those guides compare to these here? (Indicating.) A. I believe most of them are similar to the black one, and then there may be some other ones similar to the other one, but probably not as long. Q. Okay. So the ones used in the show, how would they compare in length with Exhibit 325? A. To the best of my ability, they'd be about that size; maybe a little shorter. Q. A. Q. A. Okay. And what color are the ones used in the show? They're black. Why are they black? If you have a light-colored hook in the ring, the spotlights hit it, and it kind of looks like fireworks if you're up in the seats. Q. A. Q. A. Do you think it's possible to hide a guide? No. Okay. No. THE COURT: They can be put up the sleeve of a WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 30 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 jacket, though, can't it? I've -- I guess in the past, I've seen THE WITNESS: people try to do that, Your Honor. THE COURT: You've never done that? THE WITNESS: BY MS. JOINER: Q. Let me ask you something about that: If somebody were to No. No. No. stick a guide up there sleeve, what would happen to their ability to handle or control the elephant? A. You simply wouldn't be able to, you'd have to get it out It would -- it and turn it around and do something with it. doesn't make any sense. Q. Did you at some point, Mr. Jacobson, begin presenting or exhibiting elephants to the public? A. Q. A. Yes, in 1974. And where was that? The Circus World. It was a theme park owned by Feld Entertainment. Q. And would you explain for us what the difference is between handling versus presenting an elephant? A. Well, presenting is normally in front of the public in an act for entertainment purposes. Q. Okay. And I interrupted you; what were you doing at Circus World? A. Pardon? WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 31 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. What were you doing at Circus World? I was handling and presenting elephants. Have you done any other presenting of elephants? Yes; on other circuses, nightclub. Did you ever work on the Blue Unit for Ringling? Yes. When was that? 1978; and four months in '79. Do you currently own any elephants? Yes. Which one? A male named Smokey. Where is he housed? At the CEC in Florida. And do you personally have any licenses that pertain to elephants? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. I have a USDA permit, and Florida Fish and Game. And are those licenses both current and in good standing? Yes, they are. Have you ever trained an elephant? Yes, I have. Can you tell us, please, what it means to train an elephant? A. Normally, you take a young elephant that knows really nothing as far as handling or training goes, and you turn it WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 32 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 into a trained elephant. Q. A. Q. When did you first train an elephant? The first elephant I trained from scratch was in 1980. And prior to your training of that elephant, what was that elephant capable of doing? A. She was on a circus. She traveled from town to town and was tied on a picket line. Q. A. Q. And what did you train that elephant to do? All of the basics, and it was for a nightclub act. And when you say "basics", would you please tell us what the basic -- are you referencing commands or behavior; what are you referencing? A. Q. A. Commands and/or behaviors. And what do you consider to be the basics? To be able to lead the elephant; lay it down; sit it up; stand it up; have it stand still; get on pedestals; roller barrel. Q. A. Q. Have you continued to train elephants since then? Yes, I have. And would you explain what the difference is between an elephant handler and an elephant trainer? A. Well, the first year, you normally become a handler, and from there, you become a trainer, and it's just more experience and you teach them how to do more things if you're a trainer. WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 33 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. Are you an elephant handler? Yes, also. Are you an elephant trainer? Yes. Do you have any experience with captive elephant breeding? A. Q. Yes. And when did you first begin working on captive elephant breedings? A. Q. 1989. And was that natural or artificial insemination breeding? A. Q. Natural. Have you continued to work on captive elephant breeding since then? A. Q. A. Yes, I have. In what way? As a manager of the CEC, we have the largest, more successful breeding program in this hemisphere. Q. And what type of breeding program -- let me back up -- what type of method of breeding has Feld Entertainment used in its program? A. Q. Primarily natural. There's been one AI. Can you tell us, please, how many captive elephant births have you participated in? WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 34 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Eighteen. Can you tell us how many people in the US have worked on 18 or more captive elephant births? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. There'd be a hand full, that'd be about it. When did you begin working at the CEC? We took the first elephants there June 26th, 1995. And what was your title at that time? I was the Director of Training. And what were your duties as the Director of Training? I trained the young elephants. At some point, did your title change? Yes. In 2000, I became the general manager. And would you tell us what your duties are as general manager, please? A. CEC. Q. A. Q. Is there a staff at the CEC? Yes. There's about 18 people. I oversee everything, all the physical activities at the And how many of those people on your staff are actually handlers? A. Q. All but two. Can you tell us how many traveling shows Feld Entertainment has with elephants? A. Q. Three. And what are they? WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 35 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. The Red Unit; the Blue Unit; and the Gold Show. How many years of experience do you have working with elephants? A. Q. Thirty-seven. And can you tell me, please, how many collective years of experience your staff of 14 handlers -- 14, 16 handlers at the CEC have? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Well over 200 years. How many elephants are currently located at the CEC? Twenty-nine. What kind of elephants are they? They're Asian. How many are males? Eleven. So, there are 8 -- 18 Eighteen females, yes. Who owns the CEC -- the elephants at the CEC? Feld Entertainment. With the exception of yours, Smokey? With the exception of Smokey, yes. Okay. Can you tell us which elephants are handled "free females? contact" at the CEC? A. Q. A. All of them except the adult males. And what do you consider to be an adult male? Anything normally from eight over. WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 36 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. So the free contact includes Jewell; Lutzi; Susan; Mysore; and Zina? A. Q. A. Yes. Why do you handle these elephants with free contact? Basically, so you can take care of them, and, also, they were performing elephants, so you have to use the "hands on" method. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Where are Karen and Nicole right now? They're on the Blue Unit. And how are they handled? In the free contact system. And why is that? That's the only way you can keep the elephants safe from one another and people safe from the elephants. Q. Is there any other way that you're aware of to handle an elephant in a circus setting? A. Q. A. Q. No. Are you familiar with protected contact handling? Yes. And what does -- what do you understand protected contact handling to be? A. To me, it means you do not share the same space with the elephant. There's a barrier in between you and the elephant. Q. And what is the purpose of having that barrier between the elephant and the human? WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 37 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. So the -- normally so the elephant cannot hurt you. Do you also refer to protected contact as hands off handling? A. Q. Yes. And are there any elephants at the CEC that are handled hands off? A. Q. A. Q. Yes; a number of males. Which males? Charley; Vance; Romeo; Doc; Raja; and Ozzy, I believe. And why are these males now handled with protected contact? A. Q. A. They're extremely dangerous. Why are they extremely dangerous? The adult males are driven by testosterone. They're pretty grumpy. Q. A. How big are adult males? Well, when they're eight years, it varies some, but when they're eight years old, normally, they're pushing about 7000, 8000 pounds, and then the full adults are up to like 15 and 16,000. Q. A. Would you tell us, please, what is musth? It's a period that the males go through, and they sort of lose their mind. It's an Indian word that means intoxicated, and they exclude fluid out of the temporal glands on their heads, and they just sort of loose their minds. It's kind of WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 38 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 like a runt and a buck dear. Q. And what do you do with an elephant that's in musth at the CEC? A. Q. Nothing. They're behind bars. These elephants that you just identified for us that are now handled hands off, could you tell us how they were handled until they were eight years of age? A. These were all performing elephants when they were young, so they were all in a hands-on society. Q. A. Q. Did that include a guide? Yes. Do you still use a guide with these adult males in protected contact? A. Yes. You can in certain circumstances like when you're working on their feet or giving them injections. Q. And how, if at all, has the free contact handling that these males began with affect the current hands-off handling that they have now? A. When you're in close contact with them, they still kind of remember how to behave when you have them in a shoot and you use a stick around them. Q. And what, if any, is the safety effect of having a stick with you? A. If you don't have one, they don't listen very well, and if elephants don't listen very well, you can certainly get in WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 39 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 trouble. Q. And what, if any, are the benefits of free contact handling? A. Normally you can simply take care of elephants better if you're able to go near them. A. Q. If they're behind bars, everything is at a distance. And what do you have to do to a protected contacted animal if you want to provide veterinary care to it? A. Q. A lot of times, they're sedated. Is there any -- what, if any, is the risk of sedation to an elephant? A. Q. A. die. Q. Can you -THE COURT: Is that because they're overly sedated or -THE WITNESS: It's -- it's kind of a strange thing. Veterinarians can really explain it better than I can, but there's something about their systems that makes it more dangerous, and, also, if you're going to anesthetize a dog, a cat, or a human, it's been done millions of times; with elephants it's relatively new, so it's just not as experienced. Sedation is rather dangerous with elephants. Why is that? Because of their size and then sometimes they go down and WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 40 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MS. JOINER: Q. Okay. And does free contact make the likelihood of having to sedate an animal more or less likely? A. Q. Much less likely. And what affect, if any, does free contact have on husbandry of elephants? A. It's easier to take care of them and better if you're in the same arena with them. Q. Can you approximate how large the community of elephant managers is in the US? A. It would be -- managers, not that many, but the entire group of people that handle them would be a few hundred. Q. Okay. And where would elephant managers work, what kinds of institutions? A. Q. The circuses; the zoos; and parks. Do you belong to any groups or organizations regarding elephants? A. Q. A. The Elephant Managers Association. And what is the Elephant Managers Association? It's a group of people that either work with elephants or have an interest in elephants; handlers; trainers; veterinarians; and then there's just some people who just like elephants. Q. A. Is it only for free contact handlers? No. It's for everything across the board. WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 41 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 to Mr. MS. JOINER: like to tender Mr. Okay. At this time, Your Honor, I'd Jacobson as an expert in elephant handling, care, husbandry, training, and breeding. THE COURT: Any voir dire? BY MS. MEYER: Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Mr. No. You haven't had any veterinarian training, have you? No. And you have no degree in animal behavior, do you? No. You haven't studied elephants in the wild, have you? No. Okay. The CEC, where you work, is not a member of the Jacobson, you're not a veterinarian, are you? American Zoological and Aquarium Association, is it? A. Q. No, it is not. And Feld Entertainment is also not a member of the American Zoological and Aquarium Association, is it? A. Q. No. And Feld Entertainment also not a member of the Species Survival Plan for the Asian elephant, is it? A. I don't think so, no. MS. MEYER: Your Honor, we don't have any objections Jacobson talking about his personal experiences, what he's observed and his -- and what he knows based on his WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 42 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 personal knowledge. What we do have a problem with is him giving opinions based on anything else because he did not submit an expert report, so with that caveat. THE COURT: What about that? MS. JOINER: Did you get a report? No, Your Honor. This is not a person We did give them under the rules that is required to do that. notice that we would designate him as such, but the rules do not require anybody -THE COURT: Which rule? MS. JOINER: I'm looking at 26(a)2(B). So with respect to a witness who is -THE COURT: Just a minute. 26(a)2(B). what? MS. JOINER: With respect to a witness who is All right. Just a minute; And the exception you're relying on is retained or specially employed to provide expert testimony in the case or whose duties as an employee of the party regularly involved giving expert testimony should be accompanied by a written report. Mr. Jacobson is neither of those things. He's His expertise arises simply from worked at the CEC since '95. what he does; he's not been retained as an expert, and he's not a person who regularly testifies as an expert for the company; that's not his job. THE COURT: Counsel. WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 43 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Honor. notes. MS. MEYER: problem with Mr. And, again, Your Honor, we have no Jacobson giving testimony today based on his personal experience. What we do object to is him going beyond that and giving expert opinions about the industry in general, about causation of wounds or other medical conditions of the elephants, about anything that he reviewed in preparation for the litigation, etcetera, because he has not done an expert report, and -THE COURT: Why is there one required of him? MS. MEYER: Pardon me? THE COURT: Why is there a requirement for an expert report for him? MS. MEYER: Because there is an expert -- there's a requirement under Rule 28 for all expert report -- for all experts to give an expert report unless they fall within an exception, and the exception that is being relied upon here -THE COURT: Rule 26 you mean? MS. MEYER: Rule 26; sorry. THE COURT: You said 28. MS. MEYER: I have -- I guess I have a typo in my THE COURT: I mean, if it's 28, you can focus me on the appropriate sub-section. MS. MEYER: It's 26. It's 26. I have a typo. I'm sorry, Your WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 44 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 above. THE COURT: 26(a)2(B), that Ms. Joiner references does say that, in general, in addition to the disclosures required by Rule 26(a)1, a party must disclose to the other parties the identity of any witness it may use at trial to present evidence under Federal 702, 703, 705, unless otherwise stipulated or ordered by the Court. Was he disclosed, first of all? MS. JOINER: THE COURT: Yes, sir. He was. He was disclosed. Unless otherwise stipulated or ordered by the Court, this disclosure must be accompanied by a written report, hyphen, prepared and signed by the witness, hyphen, if the witness is one retained or specially employed to provide expert testimony in the case or one whose duties as the parties employee regularly involved giving expert testimony. And, basically, she's arguing that he's none of the MS. MEYER: Right, Your Honor. And what I'm saying is -- and there's case law on this, Your Honor, and the best case I can site to you is Bynum versus MVM,Inc. 241 F-R-D 52 -- it's a Judge Friedman decision, District Court of DC, 2007, and pertained to a treating physician. And, basically, what the case law says is that, yes, a treating physician is someone -THE COURT: This is different, though, from a WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 45 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 treating physician rule, though, isn't it? MS. MEYER: Well, I think that's what they're trying to say, that he qualifies, he does not have to give an expert report; he falls within the exception because he's allowed to testify about his personal experience with the elephants at the CEC, and I have no problem with that; of course, he can. What I have a problem with is if he tries to go beyond that and start offering expert opinions based on other matters without an expert report; that would be the problem. For example, if he's -THE COURT: I don't think Judge Friedman's opinion covers this point, though. I don't think -- what is it about Judge Friedman's opinion that might persuade me that you're correct here? MS. MEYER: I think Judge Friedman's opinion basically stands for the proposition that you have to look at the scope of the testimony that's offered, and we're sort of talking in the abstract. THE COURT: Just a minute. They offered him as an expert for three or four subject matters. Are you objecting to him rendering an opinion with respect to those subject matters that they offered him? MS. MEYER: As long as it's based on his personal experience, I have no problem with that. THE COURT: That's what he's going to do. He's going WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 46 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 to offer his expert opinion. MS. MEYER: Right. Your Honor, again, I'm sort of talking in the abstract because it may not come up; but if he -- if during the course of his testimony, he goes beyond his personal experience and starts to give expert opinions; for example, if he's reviewed the medical records in anticipation for this litigation or something like that. THE COURT: Let's deal with the facts. If he exceeds those boundaries and those areas, again, are, what, husbandry, training -- what else? MS. JOINER: Yes, sir. Elephant care; handling. THE COURT: Care; handling. MS. JOINER: Husbandry; training; and breeding. We're not offering him as a vet because, obviously, he's not a vet. THE COURT: I'll take a look at Judge Friedman's opinion, but I think he falls squarely within the rules because he's not one of those people. expert. He's not retained as an He's not -- well, I don't know. Is he an employee of? I mean Ringling Brothers owns CEC, correct? MS. JOINER: That is correct. He is an -- THE COURT: Why isn't he employee of plaintiff, then? I mean employee of defendant? MS. JOINER: He definitely is an employee of the defendant, but what the rule contemplates here is that it's an WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 47 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 employee of the entity whose purpose is to be a testifying expert. That -- that's also not his purpose. THE COURT: How many times has the -- we're talking about -- I'm going to have to ask you to step outside just for a moment. All right? THE WITNESS: Okay. THE COURT: We're not going to speak unkindly about you; we're going to talk about it. All right. (Whereupon, the witness exited the courtroom at this time.) THE COURT: How many times has he testified as an expert on behalf of the defendant? MS. JOINER: Never previously, Your Honor. THE COURT: Never? MS. JOINER: He was deposed three times in this case, and during the course of those depositions, I think plaintiff took what amounted to expert discovery. So, for example, the 10-minute clip that we submitted to you was -THE COURT: He rendered those opinions during depositions? MS. JOINER: Yes. He was asked during his deposition, for example: I'm going to give you a command, tell me -- just make sure he's gone. I'm going to give you a command; tell me what it is; tell me how it works; tell me what you do. There were also hypotheticals that were given to WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 48 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 him in the sense of -THE COURT: So, in other words, you're telling me his testimony should come as no surprise to plaintiffs. MS. JOINER: I think that is correct. He has never testified as an expert before, so -THE COURT: All right. Did Judge Friedman go so far as to say that an expert report was required for that doctor who was testifying? MS. MEYER: exempt. THE COURT: All right. Well, that's right. normally the case. MS. MEYER: Yes. So that's the analogy, to the That's I didn't think so. No. No. No. The treating physician was extent he's acting similarly as someone who has an expertise based on his personal experience, which is what he -THE COURT: -- offered him. He's already indicated his background, training, etcetera, and they want him to offer opinions, and they didn't provide reports. I'll take a look at it, but I don't think Judge Friedman articulated anything new in that report at all. MS. MEYER: The only thing that Judge Friedman said that I was just -- I was just putting on the record, Your Honor, it depends on the scope of his testimony, which we haven't heard yet, and it may not become a problem. THE COURT: You've heard it, I think. You probably WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 49 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cross-examined him during his depositions. MS. MEYER: I had -- I've had no problem with the testimony he gave in his deposition, but I haven't heard the testimony he's going to give here, and I -THE COURT: Let me ask you this: Is this a fair question -- as long as he testifies consistent with his testimony during the deposition, there's no surprise, and he's not exceeding the boundaries of the proffer for which he's being offered as expert, are you satisfied with that? MS. MEYER: THE COURT: MS. MEYER: Yes. All right. And you'll let me know. I certainly will. THE COURT: I have no doubt about that. All right. That's fair. I think he can testify. MS. MEYER: MS. JOINER: Yes. Thank you, Your Honor. THE COURT: Sure. MS. JOINER: MS. MEYER: MS. Were you done? I'm done. Okay. Thank you. JOINER: THE COURT: Now, what's your best prediction with respect to the length of his direct? MS. JOINER: today. I would like to finish Mr. Jacobson WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 50 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 THE COURT: With his direct; you can do that? MS. JOINER: Absolutely. I'd like to finish him all together today. I don't, obviously, know what plaintiffs are anticipating, but I think hour-and-a-half, two hours; that's what I'm going to try for. THE COURT: All right. Well, that may get us to the limit of our own time constraints. Well, that's fine. I mean at some point, we need to take a recess, and maybe we should take it now before you even start. (Whereupon, the witness returned to the courtroom.) THE COURT: I'll let you testify, and I assure you We'll let you testify as we did not speak unkindly about you. an expert. We're going to have to take our 15-minute recess now and then just go to 5:30. MS. JOINER: Okay. THE COURT: And you can finish your direct by then. We'll just proceed with cross-examination. MS. JOINER: I believe so. Thank you. THE COURT: We'll take a 15-minute recess now. You can step outside. You don't have to stand there. Okay? THE DEPUTY CLERK: at a 15-minute recess. (Whereupon, there was a brief recess at this time; thereafter, court resumed.) THE DEPUTY CLERK: Please remain seated and come to This Honorable Court now stands WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 51 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 order. THE COURT: MS. JOINER: BY MS. JOINER: Q. A. Mr. Jacobson, what is elephant husbandry? Go right ahead, counsel. Okay. It's the care and management of elephants, the taking care of them. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Have you ever performed any husbandry on elephants? Yes. When? Every day for the last 37 years. Can you give us some examples of the kinds of elephant husbandry that you have performed? A. Feeding; watering; foot care; breeding; all the normal maintenance. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. And what do you mean when you reference foot care? The fact that we work on their feet. And how do you work on their feet? With various tools and implements. Do you recognize this? (Indicating.) That's a rasp. MS. JOINER: Okay. And I'm going to mark this, Your Honor, as Exhibit 328. THE COURT: All right. BY MS. JOINER: WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 52 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. And would you explain for us, Mr. Jacobson, how a rasp is used on an elephant? A. It's used primarily on the toe nails and on the pads, and you can also use it on rough spots on their skin. Q. And which side -- there are two sides, a coarse side and a finer side? A. Right. The coarse side, of course, is for -- if you're making large cuts, taking off a lot, and the other side is to smooth it out and the cuticles. Q. A. Q. Okay. Yes. And can you describe -- we'll mark this as Exhibit 329 -And is that a normal tool to use with elephants? what this is? A. That's a sweep-off brush. That's just you lay elephants down and sweep the debris off them with it. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Okay. Nylon. And where do you use this on the elephant? All over its body. Does it hurt them when you use it? No. Not at all. What is this made of? And we'll mark this as 330; can you tell us what this is? That's a wire brush. What do you do with a wire brush on an elephant? We wet the elephants and scrub them with the brushes. WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 53 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. Where do you scrub them at? Almost everywhere. Does it hurt them when you do that? Not at all. It cleans off the dead skin. One's right and one is left-handed, but I'm not sure which; what are these? A. Q. They are hoof knives for trimming on feet. Okay. And we'll call these together Exhibit 331. And if you would describe for us how is a hoof knife used on the foot of an elephant? A. Q. It's for trimming the pads and the toe nails. Okay. And how do you trim it on a pad? How do you trim a pad? A. It's -- you take long sweeping motions down the bottom of the foot on the pad. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. And why do you have to trim the pad of the foot? A lot of times they grow uneven. Okay. And one more; would you tell us what these are? That's a nippers. And what are nippers used for with elephant husbandry? Primarily used for overgrown toe nails. Just like an elephant nail clipper? Right; the very same. And one final thing; we'll call this Exhibit 333. And would you explain to us what this tool is? WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. It's a European draw knife. And what do you use a European draw knife for with elephants? A. It's for doing the pads. MS. JOINER: give me a second. BY MS. JOINER: Q. Are these tools that we've just looked at, Mr. Jacobson, Okay. I'll set these back down if you common husbandry tools? A. Q. A. Q. CEC? A. Q. A. We primarily use chains. Why do you use chains? It is the simple, easiest, cleanest way to tie up Yes, they are. What about tethers, are they used in elephant husbandry? Yes, they are. What kind of tethers are used at the main barn at the elephants. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Have you tried other alternatives? We have experimented around with ropes and bands. Did you ever use any of those? Yes. They normally eat them. And is the main barn where Jewell, Lutzi, Mysore, and Zina stay at night? A. Yes. WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 55 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Would you tell us, please, what the daily schedule for the main barn at the CEC is? A. Certainly. A couple of my guys come in about six in the morning, and they push the manure in the ditch, clean the elephants off, and then start to water them. Q. And what do you mean "push the manure in the ditch"? Would you describe that? A. There's a Gary(Phonetic) barn cleaner behind the elephants, and the manure is pushed in there. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Are the elephants tethered while this is being done? Yes. And when are the elephants watered? About 6:15. Is anything else done to the elephants at that time? Well, they're looked at; everybody looks at them to make sure everybody is drinking and make sure they've eaten during the night. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Okay. And then what happens next? Then they go outside. About what time is it when they do that? About seven. Where do they go outside? We have various corrals and paddocks that they go into. Can you tell us what the substrate is of those yards? It's grass and sand. WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 56 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. What do they do during the day out there? Depends on which elephants. Okay. Well, let's start with Jewell, Lutzi, Susan, Mysore, and Zina. A. They go out in the grassy fields. They each have about one and three-quarters acres apiece. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. What do they do during the day out there? Take naps; eat grass; throw dirt. Have you ever tracked their movement during the day? Yeah. We put GPS collars on them. When did you do that? There are some students at the center that are doing a project. Q. A. Q. A. Q. When did they first do that? About six weeks ago I believe. Which of those five elephants had collars on them? I think all but Lutzi. What did that collar indicate about the movement of these elephants during the day in the yard? MS. MEYER: testimony. about. ago. Your Honor, I'm going to object to this This is precisely the kind of thing I'm talking This is something that apparently was done six weeks It looks like it was done in preparation for litigation. That's the kind of thing that's not allowed to come in as an expert -- as expert testimony unless there's been an expert WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 57 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 report so that I know what the data is and had an opportunity to look at it, examine the witness about it, etcetera. THE COURT: Why should I allow any testimony to come in through this witness that was not a part of his deposition testimony? MS. JOINER: litigation. This wasn't done in connection with the It's a It's just something that's happened. function of the time lag between discovery and trial now. THE COURT: Well, he was deposed. I think it's fair to limit his testimony to that testimony that was elicited on direct and cross-examination during his deposition. objection is sustained. BY MS. JOINER: Q. Okay. So let's set aside the collars. Have you yourself So the had an opportunity to observe and see what these elephants do during the day? A. Q. A. Yes. And what are their movements like during the day? The retired ones walk out to the field and throw dirt for awhile; then they lay down and sleep. Q. Can you tell us how far out the walk from the main barn is to the field? A. Q. It's roughly a third of a mile. And then what time in the afternoon do you round them up to bring them back to the main barn? WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 58 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. About three p.m. What are the elephants doing at this time when you go to get them? A. Q. A. Q. A. off. Q. A. Q. A. Q. And what kind of tools do you use when you wash them off? Wire brushes; hoses; and pressure washes. Does the pressure washer hurt them? Not at all. And after you bathe them, what do you next with They're waiting by the gates, ready to come back. Do you have to force them to come back inside? No. Where do they go? They go to a wash rack where they're watered and washed elephants? A. Q. Then they go in the barn. And approximately what time is it when they go back into the barn? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. About four. Are they put on tethers at that time? Yes. Would you please describe how they are tethered? Front and back, opposite legs. And does that change on a daily basis? Yes; every other day you switch. WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 59 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Are the elephants -- when are the elephants fed during the day? A. Q. A. They're fed when they're put in. And can you tell us what they are fed? They receive elephant chow; various fruit; vegetables; and hay. Q. A. Q. A. And who decides their diet? We do and the veterinarians. What happens at 6:30 -- around 6:30 at night? They're fed more hay, and manure is pushed in the ditches. Q. You can't hear? Can you try to move that closer? THE COURT: Just try to keep your voice up a little bit. THE WITNESS: MS. JOINER: THE WITNESS: BY MS. Q. JOINER: Excuse me. Speak louder. I'm trying. I'm sorry. Let's see, we were talking about fed more hay, manure cleaned up; is that right? A. Q. A. Q. A. Correct. And does anything else happen after that in the evening? Yes. They're fed for the last time at 8:30. What are they given at 8:30? Hay, all the hay that will last through the night, and WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 60 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 then the rest of their fruit and vegetables. Q. A. Q. A. Q. How long has this been the daily schedule at the CEC? Pretty much since we've been there. And when did the CEC open? In June of '95. Do you consider this daily routine harmful to the elephants? A. Q. Not at all. Are you aware of any kind of state or federal law that would prohibit this schedule? A. Q. There is none. And are you aware of any state or federal law that restricts the amount of time of chaining for elephants? A. Q. There is none. Can you tell how many elephants are in the main barn overnight? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. There is, I believe, 17. Are all of them tethered? All but the ones that are with the mothers. Do they have enough room to lay down? Yes. And which, if any, of them lay down? I think all of them lay down except Zina. How many hours per night do they sleep? Normally, adults, three or four. WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 61 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. When they are tethered, do they have the ability to interact with their neighbors? A. Q. A. Yes, they do. They can reach one another. How is the lineup in the barn determined? By the compatibility of the elephants, how they get along. Q. A. Q. And how do you determine that? We know the elephants, that, and trial and error. Why don't you just turn all 17 of them loose in the barn Jacobson? The barn isn't set up that overnight, Mr. A. way. Q. A. That would be quite a mess. The big ones would eat the little ones. Why do you say that? The elephants are pretty feisty if they're left to their own devices, a lot of them don't get along. Q. Have you had any experiences where they have not gotten along? A. Yeah. Actually Zina and Susan got in a rowel the other night and skinned each other up a little. Q. Would it be possible to put individual stalls in the main barn at the CEC? A. Q. Yes, it would be. And what would be the effect of individual stalls on the elephants? A. There'd actually be less room for them. It would be more WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 62 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 dangerous for the guys because of having more steel and pipes. Q. What impact, if any, would that have on the ability to clean around them? A. Any time you have more gates, it just makes everything more difficult. Q. A. Q. A. Q. What kind of surface does the barn floor have? Cement. Why is it cement? So you can keep it clean. What happens to the barn, the main barn floor, every morning? A. salt. Q. A. Q. A. Why don't you just put down rubber mats in the barn? They just tear up the rubber mats. Has the company ever tried to use rubber mats? We've put them in trucks and the rail cars, and they chew It's completely cleaned up, scrubbed with bleach and them up. Q. A. Q. Can you tell us if the barn floor is level or sloped? It is slanted to the back so the urine runs off. Are the elephants familiar with this daily routine that you've described? A. Q. Quite. Did you alter this daily routine in any way during the weeks and months prior to the inspection in this case at the WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 63 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CEC? A. Q. None whatsoever. And were Susan, Lutzi, Jewell, Mysore, and Zina tethered nightly, consistent with this, prior to the inspection? A. Q. A. Q. A. Yes. Where are the adult males at the CEC kept? They are housed in individual barns. And when are the adult males at the CEC chained? They are never tied up unless we're collecting semen or working on feet. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. So that's not part of their daily routine? No. Do you have any adult males at CEC that sway? Several. Can you give us an example of one? Charley, more than the rest. When was the last time that Charley was chained overnight? A. I don't think since we have been at the CEC, so it would be over 10 years. Q. A. Q. A. And are there certain times when Charley sways? Yes. When are those times? If he is ready to go out with a female or if he's ready to come in and eat. WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 64 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Have you ever had the opportunity to go to Asia and observe elephants there? A. Q. A. Q. A. once. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Did you ever visit the Udawalawe Park? Yes. What kind of elephants were there? Asian. Do you know whether they were wild or captive? I saw wild and captive elephants there. Did you ever see any elephants there that were swaying? Yes. Were they tethered or untethered? They were untethered. I want to go back to the topic of guides that we were on What is the purpose of the guide again? Yes. How many times have you done that? Four times. When did you go? I've been to Sri Lanka twice; India once; and Thailand earlier. A. It is more or less like the extension of your arm, and it is to back up cues to the elephants' verbal commands. Q. A. Q. Does it make contact with the elephants? Sometimes. How much force is used when making contact with the WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 65 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 elephant? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. You use as little as possible. Do you stab elephants with the guide? No, you do not. Why not? You do not do that; we don't stab elephants. Is it ever necessary to hit an elephant with a guide? Sometimes. When would that be necessary? Breaking up a fight, or if a big one is going after a small one; sometimes the males. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Are you familiar with the term "to correct" an elephant? Yes. What does that mean? That's to have them comply with your command. Would you ever hit an elephant to correct it? I have. When? What do you mean "when"? Well, give us an example of when you have corrected an elephant? A. Q. A. stop. When we had the calf born, the last calf. And what happened that you had to correct it? The mother went after the calf, and I made the mother WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 66 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. And why did you do that? She could seriously injure it. Are there generally recognized cue spots on elephants? Yes. Can you give us some examples of where they are? The back of the front feet is to pick up their feet; the front of the back feet is to pick up their back feet; the middle of their back is for them to lay down; the top of the shoulders is to stretch out; the front of their face is to back up; under their trunk is to trunk up. Q. Now, are handlers supposed to create permanent bruises on these cue spots? MS. MEYER: Objection. Leading, Your Honor. THE COURT: Rephrase, counsel. BY MS. JOINER: Q. Have you ever heard of creating permanent bruises on cue spots? A. No. MS. MEYER: Objection. Leading, Your Honor. THE COURT: You can answer the question. THE WITNESS: BY MS. JOINER: Q. A. Q. Would that be a generally accepted practice? No, it would not be. Are you familiar with the term "hook mark"? No. WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 67 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Yes. And what is your understanding of what a hook mark is? Similar to a pin prick. What causes hook marks? Elephant hook or a guide. Is the purpose of the guide to make marks on the elephant? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Not at all. Does the use of a guide always cause a hook mark? No, it does not. How often does that happen? Actually, seldom. What are the factors that can contribute to a mark being caused from the guide? A. Well, a lot of it depends on what you're doing with the elephant, what you're trying to get out of the elephant. Q. And what, if anything, does the skill level of the handler do? A. Well, normally, the more skilled the handler, the less marks you leave. Q. And what, if any, does the affect of how trained the elephant is, have on whether or not there can be a mark? A. Q. The better they're trained, the less likely a mark. Even if a handler is being very, very careful, can a mark result? WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 68 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. you. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Yes. You can mark them up. How can that happen? Sometimes they'll pull into the hook and pull away from Can you tell us how big hook marks are? They're small, like a pin prick. Do they bleed? Sometimes, but not very often. And how much blood are we talking about? At the most, a drop. Do they require medical care? No. Do you think that the use of the guide hurts the elephants? A. I do not believe it hurts them, no. THE COURT: Can you keep your voice up, please? There are dead spots in this (Indicating), and your voice trails off. THE WITNESS: BY MS. JOINER: Q. help. A. Q. A. You can pull that up a little bit maybe, if that will I don't know. Why is that, Mr. Jacobson? I'm sorry. Could you repeat the question, please? Sure. Do you think use of the guide hurts the elephants? No, I do not. WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 69 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. them. Q. Why? I think it may irritate them, but I don't think it hurts Well, would it be a correct way to use the guide -THE COURT: Let him testify. BY MS. JOINER: Q. Yeah. Let me rephrase that here. What, if any, roles do fear and pain play with the use of the guide on an elephant? A. I don't think the elephants are afraid of us at all, and I believe that the guide may irritate them, but I certainly do not believe they're in any kind of pain. Q. Would it be a purpose of the guide to inflict fear or pain in the elephant? MS. MEYER: Objection, Your Honor. Leading. THE COURT: What's the purpose of the guide, to do what? THE WITNESS: touch them with it. It's an extension of your arm. You You pull them to you, make them get over; touch them, pick their feet up. BY MS. JOINER: Q. Can you tell us what happens to an elephant's reaction or response the more often the guide is used? A. Hmm, well, it's a matter of training. The better they're trained, the sharper their reaction time is. Q. Is it -- what if any -- strike that. What role does WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 70 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 consistency play with guiding elephant? A. You try to be extremely consistent so the elephant knows exactly what you want. Q. So let me give you a hypothetical; if you were to use the guide frequently with an elephant, would you then be able to take it into a ring and suddenly stop using it? MS. MEYER: THE COURT: that? THE WITNESS: You try not to do any more with it out Objection, Your Honor. Leading. Would you or would you not be able to do of the ring than you would in the ring or if you were practicing. You try to keep everything the same no matter where you are. BY MS. Q. A. Q. A. JOINER: Have you ever seen an elephant miss a cue in a show? Yes. What happens? You go to the next cue. THE COURT: You don't correct the elephant? THE WITNESS: No. Not in a show, no. Because -- THE COURT: Why not? THE WITNESS: -- there is an entire production going So you just on, so you're going with the band and everything. go on to the next thing. BY MS. JOINER: WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 71 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. And what, if anything, do you do to the elephant after it misses a cue on the floor and you take it out off of the ring? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Nothing. Has your use of the guide changed at all over time? Yes, it has. Can you describe how? You become more proficient, you use it less. Have guides themselves changed at all since you started working with elephants? A. Tremendously in the last 30 years. They're a lot smaller. Q. How often are guides used with the free contact elephants at Feld Entertainment? A. Q. Really, not very much. And when do the handlers at Feld Entertainment carry the guides? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. They always have one if they have an elephant loose. Why is that? It is only way you can stay safe. Is the CEC subject to inspections? Yes, we are. By whom? The United States Department of Agriculture and Florida Fish and Game. Q. Are the USDA inspections scheduled in advance or not? WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 72 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. They're unannounced. I'd like to go to Defense Exhibit 76, please. I just want to pull up the first page of this exhibit; do you recognize this form, Mr. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. CEC? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Yes, it is. Would you go down to the bottom, please? (Witness complies.) Do you recognize the signature there? Which one? The very bottom. Jim Williams. And who was Mr. Williams? Yes. What is it? It's the old USDA form. And what is the date of this particular document? 9/20/'95. And is this actually a USDA inspection report for the Jacobson? He was the general manager. In 1995? Does the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service inspect you at the CEC? A. Q. A. No, they do not. To your knowledge, what does Fish and Wildlife do? They regulate interstate or regulate travel transport. WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 73 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. The next page in this exhibit I would like to go to is Jacobson? PDF-4; do you recognize this form, Mr. A. Q. Yes. That's the current USDA form. If you look at the first line, it says -- PDF-6 -- there If you look at the first line, it says: I inspected Did we go. 7, dot, 20 Asian elephants accompanied by Gary Jacobson. I read that correctly? A. Q. Yes. Would you explain what that numerical reference, 7, dot, 20, means with regard to elephants? A. That's the males and the females; seven males and 20 females. Q. So when we see notations like that, it's males in the left column and females in the right? A. Q. Yes. A couple of lines down, it says: One of the males is one year old and still with dame(Phonetic). Do you see that? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Yes. What does that mean? The calf is still with its mother. How long do you normally keep them with their moms? Normally, about two years. If you look down at the bottom of this at the signature, is that your signature? WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 74 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Yes. I would like to go to PDF-8 of this exhibit. And if you'd go to the text of this -- blow that up just a little bit. Okay. What is the result of the inspection that's indicated here in this report? A. Q. Everything was in compliance. Okay. What is it saying about the number of elephants present at the CEC at that time? A. Q. There are eight males and 12 females. If you would go down to the bottom, please. Who was the inspector for this particular inspection? A. Q. A. Susan McCoda. Who is Dr. Susan McCoda? She's an exotic animal vet that was working at that time for the USDA. Q. Okay. I'd like to go -- can you tell us before I do that how thorough are these inspections? A. Q. A. Q. They're quite thorough. Is CEC always perfect when it gets inspected? Most of the time, but not always. Let's go to PDF-12, please. And if you could pull the text up, is this an example of a report where the CEC had a non-compliance found during the inspection? A. Q. I'm not sure. Well, if you look down at this text right here WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 75 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (Indicating), can you highlight that so you can read that? Can you see that better? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Yes. All right. Yes. Do you know what this report is indicating? I believe that the elephant had not been treated. Okay. What does the reference "correct by May 10, 2006" mean when it is on an inspection report with the USDA? A. Q. A. Q. It means that they want it corrected. By a particular date? Yes. By a particular date. And if you look down at the bottom again; is that your signature on this? A. Q. Yes. So how does this inspection process work? Do they -- how does the CEC get copies of these reports? A. The inspector fills out the paperwork while he's there and leaves a copy. Q. Does the CEC retain a copy of these reports in its normal course of business? A. Yes. MS. JOINER: Your Honor, I'd like to move for the admission of the Exhibit 76. THE COURT: Any objection? WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 76 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MS. MEYER: No objection, Your Honor. THE COURT: Admitted. BY MS. JOINER: Q. And there's one additional document I'd like to have you This is PDF-8 in this exhibit, I look at from Exhibit 78. believe, and if you could put the text up so he can read that? Is this also an inspection report for the CEC, Mr. A. Yes. MS. JOINER: And I'd like to move this exhibit Jacobson? into admission, as well, and I'd like to call this 76-A. THE COURT: Any objection? MS. MEYER: No objection. THE COURT: Admitted. MS. JOINER: BY MS. JOINER: Q. A. Q. Mr. Jacobson, when do you begin training an elephant? Thank you. Right after they're born. And what kind of training is involved with a newborn elephant? A. Nothing really specific. You just got to spend some time around them. It's kind of a loose training thing; it is not like tricks or anything. Q. A. How many elephants have you trained? Quite a few. THE COURT: How many is that? WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 77 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 THE WITNESS: BY MS. JOINER: Q. A. Probably close to 20. Have you ever heard the phrase "breaking an elephant"? Yeah. That was some of the old-timers used to use that, but it really referred to horses, the training of horses and not elephants. Q. Which commands or behaviors do you start training a young elephant with? A. feet. Q. A. And how do you teach them to pick up their feet? Normally, I touch them with a spray from the water hose. You could also put a The first thing you teach them to do is pick up their Then you go from there to the stick. rope around their foot, pick their foot up with a rope. Q. A. Q. Does any of that hurt the animal? Not at all. What are some of the other basic commands that you start with after picking up the feet? A. Teach them how to stand still, how to move up, how to back up, how to lay down, get on the tub, sit up on the tub, sit up on the ground. MS. JOINER: With Your Honor's permission, that was I'd the video clip we previously submitted so if it's okay, like to skip that. He has identified it, it is in the video, so I don't want to repeat it here if that's okay. WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 78 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 THE COURT: That's fine. MS. MEYER: MS. JOINER: I'm sorry. I didn't follow that. He explained at his deposition all of the commands for you at his deposition when you said how do you do this. So I just had him identify those, and rather than repeating it here, it's on that video. MS. MEYER: BY MS. JOINER: Q. Would you explain how you begin to put together a routine I see. Okay. Thank you. for elephants? A. First, you teach them how to do the different behaviors and commands, and then you just put it all together in segments. Q. A. Why do elephants need to be trained? If you're going to travel around the country with them, they have to be trained. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. And are there any benefits of training? You can take care of them much better if they're trained. Do you have to train an elephant to accept a tether? Yes, you do, but it's rather simple. How do you do that? You just put one on their leg for a short amount of time. And why do you do that? You need to keep them in one place at night, and then also when you travel, they need to be tied up. WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 79 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. I'd like to go now to some video clips and have you It's PWC-139; the first one is 40 to It's dated explain some of this. 4508. This was produced by Feld Entertainment. August 4, 1997. THE COURT: Let me just say this: lose Carol next week, correct? before you leave today. eight o'clock tonight, We're going to So both sides, huddle with her I don't mean to keep you here 'til Carol, but I mean as far as the sheets, it's very important that if there are inaccuracies, you need to let me know. 5:30 so you can do that. I'm sorry. I just thought about that now, Carol. I was looking over my notes the I We will stop a little bit before would have done it earlier. other night. The -- I'm not sure the record is clear with I did admit respect to that so-called "ancient document". that into the record, the 1979 document, so I'm not sure that -- that wasn't on one of those sheets we talked about last week that I submitted over objection. What's the exhibit number, Carol? It's 30 I think. Yeah. Thirty, right. That's right. BY MS. JOINER: Q. Are you ready? (Whereupon, a video clip was played. ) BY MS. JOINER: Q. Stop right there. All right. What commands did you have WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 80 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 to give those elephants to do that? A. Q. They came in line and then picked their feet up. Is that one of the basic commands that you referenced earlier? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Yes. Which two elephants are these? Benjamin and Shirley. And who is the person in the screen there? That's myself. And who is other person that we just saw in the screen? Kathy Jacobson. MS. JOINER: Could you continue on, please? (Whereupon, a video was played.) BY MS. Q. JOINER: Okay. How did you teach the second Stop right there. elephant to -- tell us first what that is called, where the second elephant is lifting up? A. Q. A. That's a long mount. And how did you teach the elephant to do a long mount? You do it first on the ground and then just transfer to the tubs. Q. A. Is that harmful to the elephants? Not at all. (Whereupon, a video was played.) BY MS. JOINER: WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 81 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. What are those elephants doing? Standing on their heads. How did you teach them to do that? First, you teach them to do a hand stand; then put their trunk down between their front legs and pick their back legs up. Q. A. And how do you teach them to do a hand stand? You just jump them up on an elephant tub and pick up one rear foot and then pick up the other rear foot. Q. Then, I think you said after they put their head down, you pick their back legs up; is that correct? A. Q. A. Correct. Would you describe how you do that? Normally, I use ropes on their back feet to give them support until they figure out how to do it. Q. A. Does that hurt them? Not at all. MS. JOINER: (Whereupon, BY MS. Q. A. Q. A. Q. JOINER: What is this maneuver here called? Continue, please. a video was played. ) Stop there. That's called a merry-go-round. Is that used in the performances in the show? It can be. And how do you train an elephant to do that? WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 82 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. You mount them up on the tub and then on the elephant, Quite simple. and you just turn them around. (Whereupon, a video was played. ) BY MS. Q. A. Q. A. JOINER: What is that behavior right there? That's an over the garden wall. And how did you teach them to do that? The elephant already knows how to sit on a tub, so it just goes across the other elephant and sits up. Q. A. Does that hurt them? Not at all. THE COURT: How do you know that, sir? THE WITNESS: lay there. THE COURT: I mean an elephant weighs how much, seven tons? THE WITNESS: No. These guys are little guys. She I've done a lot of them, and they just probably weighs a little over a ton; he probably weighs about 2,500. But they wrestle around like that, Your Honor, and climb on each another. (Whereupon, BY MS. Q. A. Q. JOINER: What did you just do with that guide? a video was played. ) Stop right there. I touched his trunk to make him trunk up. Did you put a mark on him? WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 83 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. No. Did you hurt him? No. MS. JOINER: (Whereupon, Okay. Would you continue? a video was played. ) BY MS. Q. JOINER: What is that called right there, that Stop right there. behavior(Indicating)? A. Q. A. They were kneeling and shaking their heads. How do you train them to do that? You just put a gum wrapper or something on the top of their head, and it tickles them and they shake their head, and you associate that with a command. Q. Would you continue? (Whereupon, BY MS. Q. made? A. They were talking about putting it in the show, and they JOINER: Jacobson, why this footage was a video was played.) Do you remember, Mr. wanted to see what they were doing. Q. A. Who is "they"? The director that was putting the show together. MS. JOINER: Your Honor, I'd like to move for admission of that as FEI Exhibit -- I believe we're on 334 now. WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 84 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MS. Q. A. THE COURT: Any objection? MS. MEYER: No, Your Honor. THE COURT: Admitted. MS. JOINER: The next clip I'd like to look at is 4509 to 4707, and I believe this is already in evidence at PWC-139(A). THE COURT: All right. (Whereupon, a video was played.) JOINER: Jacobson? How did you train an elephant to do that, Mr. They have very good balance, and you start by having them get up on the barrel and you just rock it; then have a block in front and a block behind, and you move the block a little in the front, and then the back one catches up. really fall off. So they can't The barrel stays in place even if they go It's relatively simple to train. forward or backward. Q. A. Is that dangerous to do? No. I've never, ever heard of an elephant getting hurt from a barrel. Q. A. Q. A. Is it harmful? Not at all. Why do you say that? It's very simple for them to do. You can train almost any elephant to roll a barrel. Q. How do you feel about these elephants that you work with WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 85 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 at CEC? A. They're like part of the family. In fact, I see more of them than I do my own family. Q. I'd like to go next to PWC-139 at 4715 to 49. (Whereupon, a video was played.) BY MS. Q. A. JOINER: Jacobson? Where is this being filmed at, Mr. That's in the barn at the CEC. (Whereupon, a video was played.) BY MR. Q. A. Q. JOINER: Jacobson doing? What is Mrs. Besides playing the drum, she's feeding him. And I'm not sure if you back it up a little bit to where What, if anything, is in her you can see her pockets. pockets? A. Q. A. She has treats. How did she -- who trained this elephant? I train all the heavy basics, and my wife trains the trunk tricks. Q. A. Q. Did she train this particular elephant? To do this stuff, yes. How did she train it to pick that up and hit the drum with it? A. First, they learn how to tail up; once they hold anything with their trunk, then you just do it with a series of steps. WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 86 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 It is pretty easy. Q. A. When you say "tail up", what do you mean by that? That means to walk along holding the elephants tail in front. Q. Okay. Let's look at the next one. (Whereupon, BY MS. Q. A. JOINER: a video was played.) How do you train an elephant to do that? Once they learn how to pick their feet up, it's They just pick their foot up, put it relatively simple. down, Q. pick it up, and put it down. And let's look at -(Whereupon, a video was played. ) BY MS. Q. A. JOINER: How do you train an elephant to wave? It's pretty simple, too. First, you get them to hold something in their trunk and then you just grab their trunk and physically move it. Q. Okay. (Whereupon, a video was played.) BY MS. Q. that? A. They hold it in the end of their trunk. It's quite JOINER: After awhile, they pick up on it. Can you explain for us how the elephant is able to hold simple. WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 87 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. And how is that behavior taught? Well, they breathe through their nose. Once they figure out that you want the noise, then they just blow harder. MS. JOINER: last one? Okay. Is there one more there or is that the I'd like to move for the admission of this exhibit as 336. THE COURT: Any objection? MS. MEYER: No objection, Your Honor. THE COURT: Admitted. THE DEPUTY CLERK: MS. JOINER: Counsel, I think it might be 335. 335; I'm sorry. THE COURT: Admitted. MS. JOINER: at for this, Mr. One more clip that I'd like you to look which is PWC-139 at 5434 to 5620. Jacobson, (Whereupon, a video was played. ) BY MS. Q. A. Q. A. JOINER: Did you train the elephant to do that? Actually, my wife did. Do you know how she trained it to do that? Once they learn how to pick things up, they already know First, they just take the ball over and dunk how to stand up. it, and then later they stand up and dunk it. MS. JOINER: Would you play the rest of it, please? a video was played.) (Whereupon, BY MS. JOINER: WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 88 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Is this a different elephant than we saw in the first part of the footage? A. Q. Yes. It's a different one. Why is one elephant standing on its hind legs and the other one not? A. The one is not as far along yet. We have to make sure that he is comfortable before we can stand him up. Q. A. How do you determine which elephants do which behaviors? It depends on whether they have the physical or the mental abilities to do them. Q. A. Why was this footage filmed? It was the same as the other footage, it was for a director. MS. JOINER: this as Exhibit 336. THE COURT: Any objection? MS. MEYER: BY MS. JOINER: Q. How do you determine, Mr. Jacobson, which elephants No objection. I'd like to move for the admission of actually travel and perform in the shows? A. Q. It depends on their temperament. Do you have any elephants at the company that are not put on the road? A. Q. Yes; quite a few, actually. Why is that? WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 89 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Because of their temperament. How, if at all, has training changed in the past 10 to 15 years? A. It's -- in the last 20 years, probably, it's has gotten a lot simpler and a lot easier, and it's not as rough as it used to be. Q. A. What is the goal when you're training an elephant? To get the most out of them with the least amount of force or pressure. Q. Do you believe that the elephants fear the handlers at the CEC? A. Q. A. I think not. Why do you say that? If they were afraid of you, they wouldn't stay with you. They would leave you. Q. Do you believe that the elephants at the CEC fear the guide? A. Q. A. I believe not. Why do you say that? The same thing goes; if they were afraid, they wouldn't stay around you. Q. For the elephants that are handled free contact at the CEC, how much human interaction do they have on a daily basis? A. Well, we see them first early in the morning and put them to bed about nine at night, so they spend a lot of time with WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 90 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 people. Q. Were you present for the inspection of the CEC in this Jacobson? case, Mr. A. Q. A. Q. Yes, I was. Did you participate in it? Yes, I did. And what, if anything, did you do to train or prepare the elephants for it? A. Q. We did absolutely nothing to prepare for it. Did you or anybody else at the CEC alter the chaining routine prior to the inspection? A. Q. Not at all. And did you or anybody else at the CEC alter the use of the guides with these elephants prior to the inspection? A. Q. Not at all. And did you yourself change your behavior or handling of these elephants in any way during the inspection? A. Q. Not really, no. I'd like to go to PWC-142, which is the inspection video, The first one is 45 and look at certain clips from that. seconds to 117. And would you just describe for us what we're looking at here, please? (Whereupon, a video was played.) THE WITNESS: elephants live. Those are the fields where the retired WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 91 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MS. Q. A. JOINER: And what are you doing here? We're rounding them up to take them over to wash them off for the inspection. Q. A. Q. A. What is that right there? (Indicating.) That's a shade structure. What's a shade structure for? To provide the elephants for shade when it's hot. MS. JOINER: go to is 215 to 245. (Whereupon, BY MS. Q. A. Q. JOINER: Jacobson? a video was played.) Okay. The next clip that I'd like to What are you doing in this footage, Mr. We're taking the elephants over for a bath. Given the age of these elephants, how would you describe their general condition? A. Q. A. 60, They're in excellent shape. Why would you say that? One of them is 65 years old; the other ones are pushing and they are in good body condition. They all eat well. They all lay down They're and sleep. They all drink well. in good shape. The average age of a zoo elephants' death in America is 42, and these guys are pushing 60. Q. I'd like to go to clip 2030 to 2348. (Whereupon, a video was played. ) WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 92 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MS. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. JOINER: Which elephant is this entering the picture? This is Susan. What are you doing? Giving her a bath. What type of hose are you using? It is a three-quarter inch water hose with a pressure nozzle on it. (Whereupon, BY MS. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. JOINER: a video continued to play.) Who's the gentleman in the frame with you? That's Jim Williams. Are you familiar with a product called "wonderdust"? Yes, I am. What color is it? It is a light gray in color. Is it waterproof? Not at all. What is wonderdust used for? Primarily used by farmers and ranchers and some elephant It is for scrapes. It is -- basically it is people use it. lyme. Q. Did you or anybody else at the CEC apply wonderdust to these elephants prior to the inspection? A. No. WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 93 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. After this kind of a bath, would there be any wonderdust left on Susan's face? A. Q. A. Not at all; none. Do you remember who was present for the baths? Dennis Schmitt, and I believe both legal teams, almost all of the other legal team. MS. 2639 to 28. (Whereupon, Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. a video was played.) JOINER: Okay. I'd like to go now to clip What are we seeing here in this film? They're having a drink of water. Is that how you normally water them during the day? If we water them during the day, yes. How often do the elephants at CEC get watered? Normally the big ones, twice a day. When do you do that? Morning and evening. How much does an elephant drink during the day? Thirty to 50 gallons a day, big elephants. Do you restrict in any way the water that they drink, the amount? A. Q. A. Absolutely not. Why do you use buckets to water them? One of the best ways to tell if an elephant is healthy or not is by watering them with buckets so you can see when they WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 94 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 drink and when they don't. THE COURT: Do you only have one bucket for the elephants? How can you -- how can that be a good test? THE WITNESS: Normally, we don't water out there. THE COURT: Oh, I see. THE WITNESS: We were waiting for some people that were late, so we just went ahead and watered them. BY MS. Q. JOINER: So after the baths, what did you do next with the Okay. elephants at the inspection? A. Q. A. Q. We lined them up and fed them some hay. And did you apply any wonderdust to Susan at that time? No. Let's go to 4738 to 4804. (Whereupon, a video was played. ) BY MS. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. that? A. That's Tova. JOINER: What's that elephant doing with that tree? That's Mysore scratching. How much power does an elephant have? Quite a bit when they're scratching. Do you know why she's scratching? She was itchy from having a bath. If you look at the very left end here, which elephant is WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 95 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Why is Tova there at the inspection? She lives with Lutzi, and Lutzi would have been bothered if Tova wasn't with her. Q. Is it part of the elephants' normal routine to line up like this during the day? A. Q. Never. Do these elephants ever practice commands or behaviors anymore? A. Q. A. No. They're retired. Now, how would you describe Zina during the inspection? She was a little agitated. MS. JOINER: Let's take a look at clip one hour, 25 minutes, 15 seconds, to one hour, 27 minutes and 22 seconds. (Whereupon, a video was played. ) BY MS. Q. A. Q. A. JOINER: Which elephant are we looking at here? That's Zina. What are you doing right there? I was trying to turn her around. It was a little too out of context for her. Q. A. What are you doing? I was cuing her to pick her foot up. THE COURT: I'm sure everyone else knows the answer to this: on, Why do some people have those air filtration things masks? WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 96 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MR. Q. A. Q. A. BY MS. Q. A. people do. THE WITNESS: Actually, I don't know why these I think I would ask the veterinarian about that. THE COURT: Is that the first time you have seen people with those things on? THE WITNESS: JOINER: No, sir. How would you describe Zina's temperament? She's a nervous elephant. MS. JOINER: And let's go to one hour, 30 minute, 29, to one hour, 31 minutes, and 29 seconds, and look at a different elephant. (Whereupon, JOINER: a video was played. ) Which elephant is this? This is Susan. And how is Susan's behavior during the inspection? It wasn't exactly marvelous; it was too much out of context. Q. A. And how would you describe Susan's temperament? She's nice, a very nice old elephant. MS. JOINER: At this time, I would like to move for the admission of those clips as Exhibit 337. THE COURT: Any objection? MS. MEYER: BY MS. JOINER: No objection, Your Honor. WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 97 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. And there's a few photos I'd like to show you, Mr. if we could pull up Plaintiff's May Call 54, and I Jacobson, would like to go to PDF-242. Mr. Jacobson, this is the right side of Susan, and if we can increase this area right here, (Indicating) I want you to look out for us. A. What are these things? She has little pockets on both sides of her head, and There's little they're kind of almost like little pimples. waxy particles in there that you clean out from time to time. Q. And I'd like to go to PDF-226. And this is the left side And what are of Susan, and I'd like you to enlarge that part. we looking at right here, Mr. A. Jacobson? (Indicating.) You're looking at the same thing only on the other side This is healed up a little bit more than the of the head. other side. Q. A. Why is the skin right here darker? That's from an oily substance that we put on there, an ointment called "Croata(Phonetic) Cream". Q. A. Q. A. Q. What is this right here? (Indicating.) That's a temporal gland. How many temporal glands does an elephant have? One on each side; two. And if you could go to PDF-211, please. This is again the elephant, Susan, and I'd like you to focus right here on this. (Indicating.) What is this? WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 98 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q A. Q. That's a scar. How long have you known Susan to have that? For as long as I've been around the elephant at the CEC. And where did Susan come from? From India. When did she come from India? 1954. And given when she came and where she came from, what do you think this is? (Indicating.) A. rope. Q. A. Q. A. Do you think that could be a hook mark? That's definitely not a hook mark. Why? Because it's over a foot long and an inch-and-a-half There's no way you could do There's a very good chance that that's from a chain or a wide; inch, inch-and-a-half wide. that with a hook. MS. JOINER: And I'd like to mark -- THE COURT: -- dragged across the skin would cause a mark like that. THE WITNESS: terrible wound. severe scar. MS. JOINER: I'd like to move for -- mark these That would be from a terrible, You could make a scratch, but that's a very three and move them as 338. WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 99 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 THE COURT: Any objection? MS. MEYER: No objection, Your Honor. THE COURT: Admitted. MS. JOINER: BY MS. JOINER: Q. Mr. Jacobson, does Feld Entertainment have a breeding Thank you. program? A. Q. Yes. Can we pull up Defense Exhibit 69, please. Now, the chart portion of this is in evidence, but if you go to this second page, I just want to clarify why our exhibit differs. It differs with regard to -- whoops -- this text right here (Indicating), and plaintiffs, I believe, have objected to this portion right there (Indicating); is that correct? MS. MEYER: Correct. THE COURT: What's the objection? MS. MEYER: It's an inaccurate statement. It says the remaining 12 reside at the CEC with their mothers, and Mr. Jacobson's deposition testimony shows that the -- those elephants do not reside with their mother's. they've been separated from their mothers. THE COURT: Which version is correct, Mr. THE WITNESS: They do not -- well, Jacobson? In fact, some of them live with their mothers, but not all of them. THE COURT: Is that statement correct that the WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 100 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 remaining 12 reside at the CEC with their mothers? THE WITNESS: They're not with their mothers; some of them are, some of them are not. THE COURT: I'll admit it subject to his testimony. He's the expert. MS. BY MS. JOINER: Q. So if we could go back to the first page of this, Mr. JOINER: Okay. Jacobson; have you seen this before? A. Q. A. Q. Yes. Is the information in this chart accurate? Yes. Okay. THE COURT: 69. I'm sorry -- that last page -- this is This is in the record; that last document, does it have a number on it? MS. JOINER: Which document? THE COURT: The one I just allowed to be part of the -MS. JOINER: THE COURT: MS. document. THE COURT: All right. BY MS. JOINER: Okay. That's fine. JOINER: The second page? Yes. It is the second page of this WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 101 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. If I could just -MS. MEYER: Your Honor, for the record, we have the same chart already in evidence as our chart "A", Will Call 151, except that it doesn't have the text that we object to. THE COURT: That's fine. That's fine. I'm going to admit this in defendant's case-in-chief, but subject to his testimony. He says that they don't live with their mother, so I'm not going to give that statement any weight. BY MS. JOINER: Q. How many elephants have been born to the breeding program Jacobson? at Feld Entertainment, Mr. A. Q. A. Q. Twenty-two. Are those elephants listed here in this chart? Yes. And are the locations of the elephants, the mother and the father, columns, correct? A. Q. A. Q. Yes. How many of these births have you personally attended? Eighteen. And which elephant on here was the result of artificial insemination? A. top. Q. If we can go to the second page, please, and look at that Barack; the last one. Well, the fourth one down from the first statement; is it accurate that 18 of the 22 live births WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 102 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 have survived? A. Q. Yes. Is it accurate that these five elephants indicated are on the Blue Unit? A. Q. A. Q. Yes. And is Angelica on the Red Unit?. Yes. Now, the remaining 12 elephants, is it accurate that they reside at the CEC? A. Q. A. Q. Yes, they do. Do their mothers also reside at the CEC? Yes, they do. So what you're saying is that they're both at the CEC, but some of them are not together? A. Some are not with their mothers, correct. THE COURT: All right. So all the elephants reside -- all those named elephants reside at the CEC, but some of the elephants do not reside with their mother at the CEC. THE WITNESS: BY MS. JOINER: Q. A. Q. A. Q. Are the mothers chained during the birth, Mr. Yes, they are. Would you explain how they're chained? Their tied front and back. How many legs? Jacobson? Correct. WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 103 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Sometimes two; sometimes three. And why is that? To keep them in one place and to keep the baby safe when it's born and to keep the guys safe when the 10,000-pound cow is delivering. Q. A. Q. Do you think that those chains harm the mother? Not at all. Would you ever attempt to deliver a captive born elephant without chaining the mother? A. Q. A. Absolutely not. Why not? There is very good chance she would kill the calf and possibly the help that is standing around. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Now, what do you do as an elephant's due date approaches? Start living in the barn. And how long do you do that for? Normally, at least two weeks; sometimes longer. And during the birthing process, are there any other elephants present in addition to the mother? A. Q. A. Q. There's others in the pens next to them. Why is that? For company. Do you know -- I think Ms. Meyer may have asked you this -- do you know what the SSP program is? A. I think it's a species survival program. WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 104 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Does Feld participate in that? We're not members, but we give out semen, and we have a And we also have six other male at a member zoo on loan. elephants that are out on loan to other zoos. Q. A. And why are they on loan to other zoos? Zoos ask us for surplus elephants so they'll have friends for the elephants that they have. Q. A. Q. How often do you get requests for elephants? Every year. Can you tell us what the company would have to do if it were unable to tether Karen and Nicole in the Blue show? A. Q. A. They would have to come back to the CEC. Why is that? You would not be able to handle them without being able You couldn't house them at night, and you to tie them up. could not house them in the train if you couldn't tie them up. Q. And what would the company have to do if it were not able to use the guide with Karen and Nicole in the Blue show? A. CEC. Q. If you couldn't use the guide or the tethers, how would It would be the same; they would have to come back to the you get them back to CEC? A. You'd have to have permission to use them to get them back to the CEC. Q. If you were not able to put Jewell -- Susan, Jewell, WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 105 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Lutzi, Mysore, and Dinah on tethers in the main barn at the CEC, what would you have to do? A. Q. A. You would have to build cages for them. And why would you have to do that? If you cannot handle them with bull hooks or tie them up, then you have to treat them as if they're wild elephants, so you have to put them in something to keep everybody safe. Q. Who is responsible at the company for deciding which elephants go out on the road? A. Q. Primarily me. Are you going to put Susan, Jewell, Lutzi, Mysore, or Dinah back out onto the Blue Unit? A. Q. A. No. Those are retired for good. Why do you say that? They were retired once and went back out, and then they They will not go out again. came back in, and that's it. They're -- one is 65, and the others are pushing 60. They're too old. Q. I'd like to have you look at PWC-132(F), which I believe is already in evidence. THE COURT: In the wild, the elephants would not have to be chained to give birth, so what's the reason for them being chained to give birth at the CEC? THE WITNESS: The mothers get pretty agitated when A lot of they give birth, and it's a pretty horrific process. WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 106 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 times, the first-time mothers kill calves; with the first-time mothers, when they first have a baby, a lot of times they kill them. THE COURT: Does that happen in the wild, as well? THE WITNESS: It does, probably not as much because they live in wild herds, and it's an entirely different environment. (Whereupon, a video was played.) BY MS. JOINER: Q. Do you recognize -- whoops. THE COURT: I'm sorry. counsel? MS. JOINER: already in evidence. THE COURT: It is? MS. JOINER: BY MS. Q. A. JOINER: Jacobson? Yes, sir. This is 132(F), which I believe is Okay. Sorry. What's the exhibit number, Do you recognize the elephants here, Mr. I know who they belong to; they belong to George Carden(Phonetic). Q. A. Q. A. And how are you able to recognize them? Because I don't know them. Pardon me? I don't know them. They're not our elephants, and They're not ours. they're released to the show for two years. WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 107 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Do you see -- this looks -- why is this darker right here? (Indicating.) A. That's Vaseline that they put around the eyes. If the tissue dries out at all, they put Vaseline on them. MS. JOINER: Your Honor, I have one other document to show him, but I'm not sure that it's contested; so if it's not -- it's PWC-35, which is the chart from summary judgment. It's Exhibit 1. I'd like to move that into evidence. We do object to this one, Your Honor. What's the objection? MS. MEYER: THE COURT: Which one is it? MS. MEYER: The objection is that -- there has been It's a chart that they put no -- it has a lack of foundation. together which purports to describe the regulatory status of each of the elephants, and, whereas, we don't object to some of the information on there, a lot of the information on there is hearsay, and for that reason, we have objected. They also did not list this document on their pretrial statement, and we object for that reason, as well, Your Honor; but, mainly, because it's hearsay. THE COURT: Was it listed? MS. JOINER: THE COURT: MS. JOINER: Exhibit 35. THE COURT: You did? Pardon me? Was it listed as an exhibit? They listed it as their Will Call WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 108 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MS. MEYER: move it into evidence. We listed it, Your Honor, but we didn't They didn't list it on their pretrial statement, and it's got hearsay information in it, which is why we didn't move it into evidence. THE COURT: All right. MS. MEYER: THE COURT: MS. JOINER: And it's not admissible. Did you list it, though? We didn't. We had a catch-all category We took an that said any exhibit listed by plaintiffs. excerpt of this to have the seven elephants at issue, and plaintiff objected to that, I believe, because it was incomplete. So I'm willing to put the entire thing in. does THE COURT: With the exception of the hearsay, it have any value? of this exhibit? MS. JOINER: Does anyone intend to -- What's the value This particular exhibit is a summary, and it simply shows there has been the passage of time; so two elephants have passed; two have been born. But for the seven at issue, it's accurate, d it shows the -- to the best of our knowledge, based on the records, it shows the date and place of birth for the elephants. THE COURT: All right. It has some value -MS. MEYER: Yes, Your Honor. Yes, Your Honor. It Do you dispute that, counsel? has a whole category called "regulatory status and evidence WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 109 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 thereof", which is -THE COURT: I'm not concerned about that. I'm talking about the evidentiary value that counsel just eluded to; if it's the summary of when elephants were born and who was born, then it has some value, putting aside the hearsay; if the evidence -- if that evidence is disputed, that's another question. MS. MEYER: We do dispute it, Your Honor, because When we put on there's been no foundation for it at all. summary evidence, we had to put a witness on the stand to authenticate it, to say where the information came from -THE COURT: If there is some dispute, I'm not going to allow it. I won't allow it. Have the attorneys been utilizing that procedure for all other exhibits, any other exhibits listed by an adversary? MS. MEYER: No, Your Honor. We objected to the defendants putting such a caveat in their pretrial statement because the rule requires -THE COURT: For that reason, I'm not going to allow it. MS. JOINER: Would you permit me to try to lay the foundation with him for it? THE COURT: Well, both sides. you didn't -- the rules are for If you didn't list it, I'm not going to allow it. Okay. Then at this time, Your Honor, I MS. JOINER: WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 110 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 have nothing further. THE COURT: All right. Do you want to use 10 minutes for cross-examination or do you want to call it a day? MS. MEYER: I'd rather call it a day, Your Honor. I actually have to use the restroom, to be perfectly honest. THE COURT: Carol is going to be here tomorrow, right? She'll be very happy to talk to you. She'll talk to you tonight -- she'll stay as long as you want her to. All right. So we'll start at ten o'clock. Crunch time. How many more witnesses, definite witnesses? witnesses? All right. How many I'm going to be fair. Who are the witnesses for Tuesday -- Monday; starting Monday, then; don't show up Tuesday thinking it's Tuesday. o'clock. MS. JOINER: Jacobson. Dr. Friend. Right, Monday. Well, obviously, Mr. It's Monday; ten And then after that, we'd like to have Markarian; Ms. And then the plaintiff, Mr. Weisberg and Ms. Liss. Mr. And then we have two video depo's for Glitzenstein and Angela Martin. THE COURT: Is that your case then; is that it? MS. JOINER: No. We have one more -- we have a We have another expert Blue Unit person to come and explain. after that, and then we also have our vet. THE COURT: All right. huh, do you? So you still think Thursday, WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 111 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MS. JOINER: MR. SIMPSON: That's our goal; yes. That's our goal, Your Honor. Give some thought to what we THE COURT: All right. talked about early on about -- it sounds like both sides agree to some sort of brief hiatus after the trial is over. Give some thought over the next several days, and I will give some further thought, as well. I think I'm in favor of that, as well, but I don't want to -- I get involved in other things, and I don't want to get involved in too many other things and then the hiatus is longer than I want it to be. So give some thought to it, and we can talk about it on Monday and figure out the best thing to do, but I think everyone would benefit from a brief hiatus after the trial is over and maybe either a combination of some argument before the findings and proposals are filed and after. whatever suggestions. All right. Enjoy your weekend. We'll start at ten I'm open to o'clock on Monday morning. your testimony with anyone. THE WITNESS: I have to ask you to not discuss Yes, sir. Thank you, counsel. THE COURT: Enjoy your weekend. MS. JOINER: Thank you, Your Honor. [End of proceedings] WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 112 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 C E R T I F I C A T E I, Wendy C. Ricard, Official United States Court Reporter in and for the District of Columbia, do hereby certify that the foregoing proceedings were taken down by me in shorthand at the time and place aforesaid, transcribed under my personal direction and supervision, and that the preceding pages represent a true and correct transcription, to the best of my ability and understanding. ________________________________ Wendy C. Ricard, RPR, CCR Official U.S. Court Reporter WENDY C. RICARD, RPR, CCR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA AMERICAN SOCIETY FOR THE PREVENTION OF CRUELTY TO ANIMALS, Plaintiff, v. FELD ENTERTAINMENT, INC., Defendant. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . CA No. 03-2006 Washington, D.C. Monday, March 9, 2009 9:47 a.m. TRANSCRIPT OF BENCH TRIAL - MORNING SESSION BEFORE THE HONORABLE EMMET G. SULLIVAN UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE APPEARANCES: For the Plaintiffs KATHERINE A. MEYER, ESQ. TANYA SANERIB, ESQ. DELCIANNA WINDERS, ESQ. Meyer, Glitzenstein & Crystal 1601 Connecticut Avenue, N.W. Suite 700 Washington, D.C. 20009 202-364-4092 LISA JOINER, ESQ. KARA PETTEWAY, ESQ. JOHN SIMPSON, ESQ. MICHELLE PARDO, ESQ. LANCE SHEA, ESQ. Fulbright & Jaworski, LLP 801 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20004 202-662-4504 For the Defendants: Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 2 Court Reporter: JACQUELINE M. SULLIVAN, RPR Official Court Reporter U.S. Courthouse, Room 6820 333 Constitution Avenue, NW Washington, D.C. 20001 202-354-3187 Proceedings reported by machine shorthand, transcript produced by computer-aided transcription. Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 3 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Honor. THE COURT: record? MS. MEYER: P R O C E E D I N G S COURTROOM DEPUTY: Matter before the Court, civil action 03-2006, American Society For the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, et al versus Feld Entertainment, Inc. Will the attorneys please introduce themself for the Katherine Meyer for the plaintiffs, your Ms. Meyer. Good morning, your Honor. Eric MR. GLITZENSTEIN: Glitzenstein for the plaintiffs. MS. SANERIB: for the plaintiffs. THE COURT: MR. CRYSTAL: Counsel. Good morning, your Honor. Howard Good morning, your Honor. Tanya Sanerib Crystal for the plaintiffs. MS. WINDERS: Good morning, your Honor. Delcianna Winders for the plaintiffs. THE COURT: MS. SINNOTT: for the plaintiffs. MR. SIMPSON: for the defendant. MS. JOINER: for the defendant. Good morning, your Honor. Lisa Joiner Good morning, your Honor. John Simpson Good morning. Good morning. Michelle Sinnott, tech, Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 THE COURT: Good morning. Good morning, your Honor. Kara MS. PETTEWAY: Petteway for the defendant. THE COURT: MR. SHEA: the defendant. THE COURT: MS. STRAUSS: for the defendant. THE COURT: Ms. Strauss. How are you this morning? Mr. Shea. Good morning, your Honor. Julie Strauss Good morning. Good morning, your Honor. Lance Shea for Good morning, sir. THE WITNESS: THE COURT: THE WITNESS: THE COURT: MS. MEYER: Fine, thank you. You're already sworn in. Thank you. Ms. Meyer? Thank you, your Honor. GARY JACOBSON, WITNESS FOR THE DEFENDANT, PREVIOUSLY SWORN CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS. MEYER: Q. A. Q. Good morning, Mr. Jacobson. Good morning. Mr. Jacobson, since last Thursday when you testified here, have you discussed your testimony with anyone? A. Q. No, ma'am. Have you discussed any of the questions I might ask you Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 5 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 with anyone? A. Q. No. And have any other people discussed your testimony or the questions I might ask you in your presence? A. Q. No. I'd like to take a look at May Call 75, please. Mr. Jacobson, what we're showing you has been admitted into evidence in this record, and it's Plaintiffs' May Call Exhibit 75. you see it on the screen there? A. Q. Yes. And do you see that's a brochure about the Center for Do Elephant Conservation? A. Q. Yes. You're the general manager of the Center For Elephant Conservation, right? A. Q. Yes. Okay. Could we go to page two, please? THE COURT: I didn't see Mr. Rider. Good morning. You know, you can sit at the table here. You're a plaintiff. You can sit with the attorneys if you'd like to. MR. RIDER: THE COURT: MR. RIDER: THE COURT: BY MS. MEYER: That's all right, your Honor. Good morning. Fine. Good. How are you? Thank you. Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Oh, boy. That's hard to read. Can you make that any larger where it's talking about the elephant playground there? Okay. Okay. So this is a brochure that's disseminated by Feld Entertainment about the Center For Elephant Conservation, correct? A. Q. Yes. And it's something that's disseminated to the public, correct? A. Q. A. Q. Pardon? It's something that's disseminated to the public, correct? I believe so, yes. And you see there on page two where it talks about the elephant playground? A. Q. Yes. And it says the elephant playground is almost thirty acres, more than a million square feet of prime meadow where elephants can roam and socialize to their heart's content. that? A. Q. Yes. But it's not correct, is it, that at the CEC the elephants Do you see get to roam and socialize to their heart's content? A. Q. I don't understand. It's not a correct statement that the elephants at the CEC get to roam and socialize to their heart's content, is it? Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Well, there's certain constraints that go with that. For example, when I took your deposition on October 24th, 2007, you told me that the adult female elephants, including Lutzi, Susan, Mysore, Zina and Jewell, are all chained on two legs in a concrete barn from about three in the afternoon until seven o'clock the next morning, isn't that correct? A. Q. Roughly, yes. Okay. So they're not free to roam and socialize to their heart's content, right? A. Q. Not at night. And you also told me that none of the adult males go out on grass, isn't that correct? A. Q. Correct. So they're not roaming around in prime meadows at the CEC, are they? A. Q. No. Okay. And in fact, last week you testified that the males, when they get to be about eight years old, are put behind bars at the CEC. A. Q. Yes. So they're definitely not roaming and socializing to their Do you remember that testimony? heart's content, are they? A. Q. Well, they're loose all day or all night. But they're not roaming and socializing in prime meadows at the CEC to their heart's content, are they? Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. No, they're not. And in October of 2007 when you testified at your deposition, you also testified that the young male elephants were chained on two legs on concrete from about three o'clock p.m. to seven a.m. the next morning. testimony? A. Q. Yes. So they certainly were not free to roam and socialize to Do you remember that their heart's content, were they? A. Q. Not at night. Okay. And you also testified that Gunther lives under a Do you remember that testimony? metal roof on a concrete slab. A. Q. Yes. And you testified that he was chained by himself from about three p.m. until seven o'clock the next morning each day, do you remember that? A. Q. Yes. So he certainly wasn't free to roam and socialize to his heart's content, was he? A. Q. He's loose during the day. And even when he's allowed off chains, Gunther was kept by himself, right? A. Q. A. Yes. And how old is Gunther? He is now seven. Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. And likewise, when you testified in October of 2007 at your deposition, you also testified that the young females, at that time it was Angelica, Osha, and Rudy, were chained on two legs on concrete from about three in the afternoon until seven the next morning, do you remember that testimony? A. Q. Yes. So they weren't free to roam and socialize to their heart's content at the CEC either, were they? A. Q. Not at night. Okay. And when you testified in October of 2007, you also testified that an elephant named Emma spent about 22-and-a-half hours of every single day chained in a concrete barn. remember that testimony? A. Q. Yes. So she certainly wasn't free to roam and socialize to her Do you heart's content, was she? A. Q. True. And you also testified in October of 2007 at your deposition that an elephant named Shirley was also chained on concrete for about 22-and-a-half hours each day. remember that testimony? A. Q. Yes. So she also wasn't free to roam and socialize to her Do you heart's content, was she? A. No. Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 10 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Now, last week you testified during your direct that the adult female elephants that were inspected as part of this case get water twice a day; is that right? A. Q. A. Q. Yes. In the morning and the evening? Normally, yes. Okay. And that the normal schedule is that they're given water in the morning at about 6:15 a.m.; is that right? A. Q. Roughly that, yes. And then the second time they get water is around three o'clock p.m. when they come back to be put in the barn for the rest of the day and night, right? A. Q. Yes. Three to four. The elephants are not provided free access to water, correct? A. Q. they? A. Q. No. We're in an environmentally sensitive area. No, they are not. And they're not provided any place to swim at the CEC, And -THE COURT: THE WITNESS: Aren't they given free access to water? We monitor their amount of water that If you go in in the they drink to check on their health. morning and an elephant does not drink, you'll know just normally something is wrong because they always drink really Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 well in the morning, so it gives you a jump up on the fact that they could be sick. BY MS. MEYER: Q. But the answer to the judge's question is that the elephants are not given free access to water, isn't that correct? A. Q. Correct. They only get water if you give it to them, isn't that right? A. Q. Yes. Now, so the next time they get water after 6:15 a.m. in the morning normally is around 3:00 when they come back to go into the barn; is that right? A. Q. Yes. All right. Now, last week you made a point of telling Judge Sullivan that when three o'clock roles around the adult females are waiting at the gate at the CEC. that testimony? A. Q. Yes. Ms. Joiner asked you do you force them to come back to the Do you remember that? Do you remember gate and you said no. A. Q. A. Q. Correct. But that's the next time they're going to get water, right? Yes. And the next time after that that they're going to get Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 water is 6:15 a.m. the next morning under the normal schedule, isn't that correct? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Yes. And it's hot down in Florida, isn't it? Certainly. And the elephants know the schedule, don't they? Yes. I want to go to one of the videos that you were shown. It's Plaintiffs' Will Call 139A, and I just want to play it from the beginning to about 48 seconds. (Video played.) These two elephants are Benjamin and Shirley, right? A. Q. A. Q. Correct. And how old were they when this footage was taken? I'd be guessing, probably two-and-a-half. And these two young elephants, Benjamin and Shirley, they were like brother and sister, weren't they? A. Q. They are brothers and sisters. And at the time this footage was taken, both of them had been separated from their mothers, isn't that correct? A. Q. Yes. So they weren't living with their mothers at the CEC when this footage was taken, were they? A. Q. No. And you and your wife were present throughout this scene Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 13 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 both carrying bullhooks, weren't you? A. Q. Yes. And Benjamin and Shirley could see that you both have bullhooks, correct? A. Q. Yes. And these young elephants are required to do these maneuvers many times until they learn how to do it so they can perform in the circus, right? A. Q. Until they learn how, yes. In fact, Benjamin and Shirley had practiced this routine before this footage, hadn't they? A. Q. A. Q. Certainly. Many times, right? Yes. And in the process of learning a trick like this, elephants fall, don't they? A. Q. Sometimes. And when they fall, you make them get up and do it again, don't you? A. Q. Yes. And it's your job to make sure they can perform these tricks before they go out on the road, isn't it? A. Q. Yes. And they're not learning this trick that we're seeing in this video footage for husbandry purposes, are they? Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 14 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. No. They're not doing this routine for purposes of feeding or watering, are they? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. No. Or for purposes of receiving veterinary care, are they? No. Or for purposes of breeding, are they? No. They're learning this trick to perform it in the circus, right? A. Q. Yes. And in the other excerpts that you showed or reviewed with your counsel last week, elephants playing basketball and playing musical instruments, those tricks weren't exercises for husbandry purposes either, were they? A. Everything that they do, that they're trained to do, is It keeps their mind and their bodies fit. It's good for them. an entire big picture. watering or husbandry. Q. Okay. It's not just you do this for feeding or It's all one entire process. But learning to play basketball is something they're learning so that they can perform that trick in the circus, isn't that correct? A. Q. Yes. And learning to play the harmonica is something they're learning so they can perform a trick in the circus, isn't it? Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 15 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. Yes. Now, Benjamin is dead, isn't he? Yes, he is. All right. And he died while swimming in a pond in about July of 1999, isn't that correct? A. Q. Yes. And his death was the subject of a USDA investigation under the Animal Welfare Act, wasn't it? A. Q. I'm not sure. You don't know whether his death was the subject of a USDA investigation? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. I'm not clear at this time if it was or not. All right. And Shirley is how old about now? She was born in 1995, February, so she's 13, 14. She's not performing on the road, is she? No, she is not. And in fact, she hasn't been performing on the road since about January of 2000, isn't that correct? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Correct. She's been at the CEC since then, hasn't she? Yes. So she's been at the CEC for the last nine years, right? Yes. Since she was about four, five? Right. Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 16 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. And Shirley was present at the location where Benjamin died, wasn't she? A. Q. she? A. Q. I'm not sure. She was there when he died in the pond, wasn't she? MS. JOINER: THE COURT: know. THE WITNESS: BY MS. MEYER: Q. And she and Benjamin were being handled at the time when She was on the property. Objection; lack of foundation. He can answer it if he knows. I don't Yes. She was swimming in the same pond that he died in, wasn't that incident occurred by Pat Harned, isn't that correct? A. Q. Yes. And right after Benjamin died, Pat Harned brought Shirley back from Texas to the CEC by herself, didn't he? A. Q. A. Q. Yes. So that would have been in July, around July 1999, right? Yes. And then she went back out on the road a few months later in November of 1999, didn't she? A. Q. A. Yes. She went to the Blue Unit, right? Correct. Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 17 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. she? A. Q. And she went back to the Blue Unit with Pat Harned, didn't Yes. But then she was taken off the road again in December of 1999 or January 2000, correct? A. Q. Yes. When she went back out on the road after coming back to the CEC after Benjamin died, she was assigned to Troy Metzler to handle her, right? A. Q. A. Q. Eventually, yes. And that didn't work out too well, right? No. And that's because Shirley was acting nervous on the road with Mr. Metzler, right? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Yes. She just was not quite herself, right? Yes. So you took her off the road in January of 2000, right? Correct. And even though she and Benjamin were siblings and she wasn't present at the property when Benjamin died in that pond in July of 1999, it's your opinion that the reason she wasn't quite right after that had nothing to do with his death, right? A. Q. Not at all. She didn't miss him? Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 18 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. Not a bit. She wasn't mourning his death at all? No. Now, since Shirley went back to the CEC, Feld Entertainment hasn't used her in any performances, correct? A. Q. Correct. Okay. So again, that's for the last nine years she's been at the CEC, right? A. Q. A. Q. Yes. Instead, Feld Entertainment is using her to breed, right? Yes. And in fact, the first time she was impregnated was when she was about not quite eight years old, isn't that right? A. Q. I would have to look in the record. Okay. Let's take a look at Chart A, if we could, If you look at Plaintiffs' Chart A, which is Will Call 151. this chart which has been admitted into evidence, Mr. Jacobson, you could see how old -- well, you can see the first calf that she gave birth to was Ricardo, right? A. Q. A. Q. Yes. And you can see when Ricardo was born, December 5th, '03? Um-hmm. And you can see how old Shirley is by seeing when she was born, right? A. Correct. Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 19 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. And you know how long the gestation period is, it's about 22 months, right? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. you? A. Q. Yes. Your main job was to keep Shirley under control during the It was 21 in this case. So how old was Shirley when Ricardo was born? Eight or nine. I'm not very good at math. She was about eight, eight-and-a-half when he was born? Correct. So how old was she when she was impregnated? Twenty-one months off from that. So just not quite seven, right? Correct. Okay. And you were present when Ricardo was born, weren't birth, isn't that right? A. Q. Yes. And during that birth, Shirley was chained on three legs on a concrete floor; is that right? A. Q. Yes. I'd actually like to go to the videotape of Shirley's I just want to show some of it. It's Exhibit 1341 birth. that's been admitted into evidence. 240 to 252, if we could, right now. (Video played.) I just want to show from Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 20 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Yes. That's you on the left, isn't it, Mr. Jacobson? And this is the scene of Shirley giving birth to Ricardo, isn't it? A. Q. Correct. And you just took your bullhook and pulled her on her trunk; is that correct? A. Q. A. I'm not sure. Do you want to see it again? Sure. MS. MEYER: BY MS. MEYER: Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. There. Yes. Do you see that? It was her chin. Could we show that again, please? So you pulled her chin with the bullhook; is that right? Yes. But she's chained on three legs here, right? Yes. I'd like to actually show the rest of the clip until we get to 308, please. (Video played.) That was you on the left there with Shirley and using your bullhook on Shirley, right? A. Q. Yes. Okay. Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 21 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Yes. Take that off. Ricardo refused to nurse, isn't that right? So he wasn't raised by Shirley, right? No, he was not. He was raised by the staff at the CEC, right? Yes. He died when he was about eight months old, isn't that right? A. Q. Yes. He died when he fell off a tub that you were using to train him to do tricks for the circus, right? A. Q. A. Q. No. That's not right? No. Okay. He didn't fall off a tub and break his legs and have to be euthanized? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. He fell off the tub. And did he fracture his legs? Yes. And was he euthanized by Feld Entertainment? Yes. Now, Shirley, after Ricardo died, actually after Ricardo was born, Shirley was bred again, wasn't she? A. Accidentally. Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 22 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Okay. And she got pregnant about six months after Ricardo was born, right? A. Q. Accidentally, yes. And she gave birth to another elephant named Mable, isn't that right? A. Q. A. Q. Correct. And Mable was born in April of 2006, isn't that right? Yes. And as we've already discussed, as of your October 2007 deposition, Shirley was chained on concrete 22-and-a-half hours each day, right? A. Q. Yes. And at that time Shirley had tested positive for tuberculosis, hasn't she? A. Q. A. Q. Yes. But she wasn't being treated for tuberculosis, was she? No. And that was because you were using her to nurse Mable, right? A. Q. Yes. And as of your deposition testimony, Mable had not been tested for TB, right? A. Q. A. No. And she wasn't being treated for TB? No. Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 23 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. Pat Harned is currently working at the CEC, isn't he? Yes. And when the Court-ordered inspection took place at the CEC in this case, Mr. Harned was there, wasn't he? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Yes, I believe so. He was present that day? Yes. He was wearing a leg brace on his leg? I believe so, yes. Now getting back to Ricardo, he was born on December 5th, 2003; is that right? A. Q. Yes. And we already discussed the fact that he died in August of 2004 when he was about eight months old, right? A. Q. Yes. And you said he was euthanized by Feld Entertainment after he fell off a tub and fractured his hind legs, right? A. Q. Yes. All right. Now, on the day Ricardo died, you and your wife were in the process of training him to get up on a tub, isn't that right? A. Q. Yes. You were training him to put all four feet up on that tub, weren't you? A. Yes. Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 24 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. And that's a tub that's used in the performances for the circus, isn't it? A. Q. This one is not. It's like the tub that's used in performances in the circus, isn't it? A. Q. Yes. And the training that you were involved in on the day Ricardo fell off that tub involved using a bullhook, didn't it? A. Q. I had one with me, yes. And the training also on that day when were you training Ricardo to get on that tub also involved tying a rope around his trunk, didn't it? A. Q. A. Q. I had a trunk rope on him. So it involved a rope tied around his trunk, did it not? Yes. And in fact, tying a rope around a baby elephant's trunk is part of the training you use for all of the elephants, right? A. Q. Yes. And Ricardo got two feet up on that tub and then he fell, isn't that right? A. Q. Yes. He slipped off. He was having trouble getting his back legs up on the tub, wasn't he? A. Q. He slipped off. He was having trouble getting his back legs up on the tub, Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 wasn't he? A. off. Q. 65. Let's go to Mr. Jacobson's November 2007 deposition, page Let's take a look. You remember being deposed by me? Do you remember that? I don't know if he was having trouble or not. He slipped Actually, I deposed you three times. A. Q. Yes. And one of those times was November of 2007. Do you remember that? A. Q. A. Q. Yes. And you were under oath, correct? Yes. Okay. If we go to page of 5, line 21. I'd like to read the question that I asked you and your answer that you gave at that time. Question: But he was having trouble getting his back legs up on the tub that day, correct? Answer: He seemed to, yes. Does that refresh your recollection? A. Q. Yes. So he was having trouble getting his back legs up on the tub when he fell, and as a result of the fall he broke his back legs, right? A. Q. Correct. And the next day he was euthanized by Feld Entertainment, He fell, he fractured his legs? Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 26 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 right? A. Q. At Gainesville, yes. Okay. And the USDA conducted an investigation of this matter, didn't it? A. Q. They looked into it, yes. And in fact, you provided a statement to the USDA as part of that investigation, didn't you? A. Q. Yes. All right. I'd like to go to what was Exhibit 12 to Mr. Jacobson's November 2007 deposition. I'm showing you what was marked as Exhibit 12 to your November 2007 deposition, Mr. Jacobson, and just ask you to take a look at it before I ask you some questions about it. taking a look at it? A. Q. Yes. So this is a statement you gave to the USDA in the course Are you of its investigation of how Ricardo died, isn't it? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. I think so. You see at the bottom there it's dated November 4th, 2004? Yes. And that's your signature there as well, right? Correct. Now, I notice that this statement is not sworn by you; is that correct? A. You mean like with a notary? Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 27 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. With a notary, sure. No, it's not. You didn't state that you were giving this statement under penalty of perjury, did you? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. No. Was there a reason for that? I don't know. You don't remember? No, nobody said anything. Now, if you look at the statement, it says in the middle paragraph that you're explaining how he died, how Ricardo slipped off that pedestal, and the third line down you say, quote: One of the enrichment and exercise toys with which All of the Ricardo liked to play is a 19-inch high pedestal. young elephants play on such pedestals and Ricardo had been playing with it for months. A. Q. Yes. And in the next paragraph you're explaining what happened. Do you see that? In the second line you say, He climbed on the pedestal right away, he put his front feet on the pedestal but slipped and went down on his hind quarters. A. Q. Yes. Now, you don't mention in this statement that you gave to Do you see that? the USDA that the pedestal that Ricardo fell off was in fact a tub that is used to train elephants to do tricks in the circus, Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 28 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 do you? A. Q. A. Q. They're the same. But you don't mention that, do you? No. And you don't mention that in fact you and your wife were training Ricardo to get up on that tub, do you? A. Q. No, but everything we do with them is training them, so ... You don't mention that in this statement you gave to the USDA, that that was training -A. Q. No. If I could finish my question. You don't mention that this was a training exercise, do you? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. It's all the same, but, yes. You don't mention that it was a training exercise, do you? No, I do not. You say he was playing, right, he was playing that day? I don't follow you. You said, you told the USDA that Ricardo was playing on a 19-inch pedestal when he fell, correct? A. Q. A. Well, no. We were with him. And that he was playing on that pedestal, right? He was not playing on that pedestal. THE COURT: She's saying it's in your statement. You said he was playing, right? Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 29 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 THE WITNESS: BY MS. MEYER: Q. Okay. Not at that time he was not playing, no. So when you said to the USDA, again back to the second paragraph, One of the enrichment and exercise toys with which Ricardo liked to play is a 19-inch high pedestal, and then you say all of the young elephants play on such pedestals and Ricardo had been playing with it for months, you're not telling the USDA that he was playing on the pedestal when he slipped? A. No. What I was saying was, if I may explain that, we leave pedestals or bathtubs in the yard when the elephants are loose and they climb up on them. But my wife and I had the elephant and had him on a pedestal, almost on one. Q. But that is a statement that you're giving to the USDA in the course of an investigation into how Ricardo died, correct? A. this. Q. Yes, but I am not saying that the elephant was playing on I'm saying the elephant has access to play on those. Okay. But you don't mention in here that you were going through a training exercise when he slipped, correct? A. Q. It was a pretty informal training exercise. Okay. And you don't mention in this statement to the USDA that your wife had a rope tied around Ricardo's trunk, do you? A. Q. No. And you also don't mention in this statement anywhere that you were using a bullhook that day, do you? A. I had a hook in my hand. Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 30 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. You don't mention it to the USDA, do you? I always have one in my hand. Okay. I would never mention that. Now I'd like to go to Exhibit 13 to his deposition. You provided a second statement to the USDA in the course of this investigation, didn't you? A. Q. I believe so, yes. And that was on December 8th, 2004, a couple months later, Sorry. Right? right, actually one month later. A. Q. Yes. Okay. We're showing you what was marked as Deposition Why don't you Have you Exhibit 13 to your November of 2007 deposition. take a look at it before I ask you some questions. taken a look at it? A. Q. A. Q. Yes. Do you remember giving this statement to the USDA? Yes. All right. And this statement is dated at the bottom 12/08/04, do you see that? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Yes. And it's signed by you, right? Yes. And also not sworn though, right? Correct. And at the beginning it says that you're giving this to the Do USDA to supplement what you provided on November 4th, 2004. Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 31 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 you see that? A. Q. Yes. All right. And in the second sentence of the second It was not our practice to use Do paragraph, you state, quote: restraints when walking Ricardo out to the exercise yard. you see that? A. Q. A. Q. Correct. And the word "restraints" is in quotes. Yes. Okay. Do you see that? And the reason that you put the word restraints in quotes is that the USDA was interested in knowing whether or not restraints had been used that day, right? A. Q. A. Q. I do not know. Do you know you put the word "restraints" in quotes? Because we didn't use restraints. Okay. And in this version, this statement that you gave to the USDA, this is the first time that you mentioned that your wife had a rope quote placed around Ricardo's trunk to guide him. A. Q. Do you see that? Yes. But again, even in this statement to the USDA, you don't mention that you and your wife were training Ricardo to get up on that tub when this incident occurred, correct? A. Q. He already knew how to get up on the tub. So you don't mention that you were involved in a training Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 32 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 exercise, right? A. Q. No. Because you've already testified this morning that in fact Do you remember you were training him to get up on the tub. that testimony? A. Q. Yes. Okay. Now I'd like to turn to the investigation report for And as you can see, It's dated the Ricardo incident, which is 1B Ricardo. Mr. Jacobson, this is a Report of Investigation. January 26th, 2005, and if we go to the next page you can see that it concerns, at the bottom of that next page, violation events. A. Q. It concerns the death of Ricardo. Do you see that? Yes. And you see that it says, the last sentence says that the USDA states that Ricardo was euthanized after sustaining non repairable fractures to his back legs after reportedly falling off a training platform while playing. A. Q. Yes. And if you go to the next page of the investigation report, Do you see that? again, at the top of that page where it says Explanation of the Evidence, and if you go down to the -- in the first paragraph it says, on 8/04/04 Ringling Brothers and Barnum & Bailey Circus reported the death of 58-month old Asian elephant named Ricardo after sustaining nonrepairable fractures as a result of falling off a training tub while playing. Do you see that? Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 33 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Yes. And listed in the explanation of the evidence are two statements by you, Exhibit 3 and -MS. JOINER: Objection; foundation. At this point I think counsel is just testifying about the document. THE COURT: MS. MEYER: THE COURT: BY MS. MEYER: Q. Your two statements, unsworn statements, were relied on by Counsel? I'll ask questions about it then. All right. the USDA in reaching this conclusion, correct? A. Q. I'll assume they were. You see on this document that your statements are listed as Exhibit 3 and Exhibit 4? A. Q. Yes. So the USDA relied on those two unsworn statements that you gave them about how Ricardo died when it issued this final investigation report, right? MS. JOINER: THE COURT: BY MS. MEYER: Q. Your statements are listed as exhibits that were relied on Objection; calls for speculation. It does, it does. by the USDA, correct? A. Q. I guess so. And the USDA again concluded that Ricardo slipped while he Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 34 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 was playing, isn't that right? A. Q. I'm not sure what they concluded. Okay. But in fact, Ricardo was being trained to perform a trick in the circus, wasn't he? A. Q. Not formally, no. Informally? Everything counts. Okay. For example, the video -- you can take that down -- the videotape that you showed, we reviewed with the judge last week and actually we saw again this morning of Benjamin on the barrel and falling off the barrel, is it your testimony that Benjamin is playing in that scene? A. Q. A. Q. No. He's been trained to do a trick for the circus, isn't he? Yes. Last week you testified that the USDA does investigations -- I'm sorry, inspections, you said, that are, quote, quite thorough. A. Q. Yes. But you don't believe that the USDA investigators know Do you remember that testimony? anything about elephants, do you? A. Q. Could you repeat the question? You don't believe that the USDA investigators know anything about elephants, do you? A. Q. Well, they know some things, obviously. Okay. Could we go to Mr. Jacobson's November 2007 Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 35 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 deposition at page 23? This is testimony from your November 2007 deposition, Mr. Jacobson. I'd like to read you a question and answer that you gave me, from line 07 on page 23. Question: And at the time that you decided to rehire Mr. Harned, were you aware that -- did anybody inform you that as a result of the USDA investigation of the death of Benjamin, that the USDA investigator had found that Mr. Harned's use of the bullhook had precipitated in the death of the Benjamin? Ms. Joiner: Answer: have or not. Question: Okay. Is that something you would have Objection to form; asked and answered. I don't have a clue as to whether it would wanted to know about before making a decision to rehire Mr. Harned? Answer: I think that that was just a -- I think that that would have had nothing to do with the elephant's death. Question -- I'm sorry, Answer: I do not believe that the elephant drowned because Pat abused it with a hook or whatever was said. Question: But if a federal investigator had concluded otherwise, is that something you might have wanted to know about before you rehired Mr. Harned? Answer: I don't know of a federal investigator that knows anything about elephants particularly outside of what's in Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 36 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 their rules and regulations. Do you remember that testimony? A. Q. Yes. So you don't believe that the USDA really knows much about elephants, right? A. Q. Correct. Now, it's true, isn't it, that once you separate the baby elephants from their mothers, those baby elephants don't live with their mothers at the CEC, right? A. Q. Correct. And I'd actually like to look at Will Call 151 again, if we And this is a list of the elephants that have been born I think actually you might have referred You certainly talked Do you remember could. to Feld Entertainment. to this last week or some form of it. about the babies that were born at the CEC. that testimony? All right. Actually, I'd like to go down the list if you don't mind and you can tell me which of these elephants live with their mothers, okay, at the CEC. How about Angelica? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. No. How about Arie? No. Actually I can't hear you. No. How about Asha? I'm sorry. Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 37 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. No. How about Barack? Yes. How about Benjamin? He's dead. I'm sorry. She's also deceased. How about Bertha? How about Bonnie? THE COURT: MS. MEYER: BY MS. MEYER: Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. How about Bonnie? No. How about Doc? No. How about Gunther? No. How about Irving? No. How about Juliet? No. How about Kelly Ann? No. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Bertha is what? Bertha is also deceased, your Honor. Kenny is deceased, right? Yes. How about Mable? Yes. Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 38 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. How about Osgood? No. How about PT? No. How about -- sorry. No. How about Rudy? No. How about Sara? No. How about Shirley? No. And how about Sundara? Yes. You mentioned during your direct testimony last week that Ricardo is deceased. How about Romeo? the mother of the last born calf tried to kill him at birth; is that right? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. We didn't let it go that far. But she was trying to kill him, is that what you said? She was going after him, making threatening gestures. And that would have been Bonnie; is that right? Yes. And that calf was the baby elephant that you've named Barack? A. Yes. Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 39 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Now, your specialty for Feld Entertainment is training the young elephants, right? A. Q. Yes. And you learned how to do this from a guy named Buckles Woodcock, right? A. Q. Yes. And you also received some your training from a guy named Smokey Jones, right? A. Q. A. Q. Smokey, yes. Smokey Jones? Yes. And when the elephants are born at the CEC, they're wild animals, aren't they? A. Q. Yes. And you have to tame these young wild elephants in order to be able to use them in the circus, right? A. Q. The word "tame" doesn't come into it much. You have to train them in order to make them usable in the circus, right? A. Q. Yes. All right. And another word for that training process of a wild elephant is called breaking it, right? A. Q. No. Okay. Because last week when Ms. Joiner was asking you about the term "breaking," you said that's a term that the Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 40 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 old-timers used. A. Q. Yes. Do you remember that testimony? When you said "old-timers," you meant old-time elephant people, didn't you? A. Q. I meant horse people actually, but ... So Ms. Joiner asked you if you were familiar with that term and you said that's a term the old-timers used, you were talking about old time horse trainers? A. Q. And elephant people. Okay. So you were talking about elephant people too, right? A. Q. Yes. And when the old-time elephant people used the word "breaking an elephant," they're talking about taking a wild young elephant and training it to obey commands so that it can be used in the circus or some other purpose, right? A. Q. Yes. Okay. And one of the steps, first steps to training an elephant so they can be used in the circus is to remove it from its mother before it's weaned, isn't that correct? A. Q. That depends. If you're going to train it to do tricks for the circus, you need to remove it from its mother, right? A. Q. Some of them. Okay. That's the normal process, isn't it? Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 41 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. Some of them. It's the normal process? Normally, yes. And you separate them from their mothers for that purpose while they're still nursing, don't you? A. Q. Yes. And you do that when the elephants are around two years old; is that right? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Normally, yes. Because sometimes younger, right? In the past. Sometimes younger than two? Yes. And the reason that you separate them from their mothers before they're weaned is so that you can start training them, right? A. Q. Yes. And one way that you do this is by taking the baby away from its mother and then tying it up with ropes and keeping it restrained until it becomes submissive toward you, isn't that correct? A. Q. I don't know about the submissive part. You take the baby from the mother and you tie it up, right, and have it restrained? A. Yes. Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 42 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. For some period of time, isn't that right? Yes. For example, in about April of 2007 you separated Aria and Irvin, two of the young baby elephants, from their mothers, right? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Yes. And Aria at the time was about two years old, right? I believe so. And Irvin was not quite two, right? Correct. And the way you did this was you grabbed them from their mothers and tied them up, right? A. Q. Yes. And you put each one of them in a separate paddock at the CEC by themselves, didn't you? A. Q. A. Q. They were right next to each other. But they're a separate paddock, aren't they? Yes. And at first you had ropes on all four of their legs, didn't you? A. Q. A. Q. Yes. And then it was only on two of their legs, right? Correct. And the reason that you restrained the baby elephants this way is because they're wild, right? Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 43 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Yes. All right. And after you separated Aria from her mother when she was about two, you put her on chains every day for four months with the exception of about forty minutes a day, isn't that right? A. Q. Right. Okay. And those forty minutes a day was the time she got to spend with you, right? A. Q. Correct. Otherwise she was on chains the entire time, isn't that correct? A. Q. Yes. And after the baby elephants are separated from their mothers, another part of the training of the young elephants is to teach them what a bullhook is, correct? A. Q. Yes. All right. And you're responsible for training the baby elephants to know how to respond to the bullhook, aren't you? A. Q. Yes. And isn't it true that as part of the training process the baby elephants are hit with bullhooks? A. Q. A. Q. Not as part of a training process, no. Okay. Yes. Part of the correction process, the baby elephants are hit Well, you call it correction, right? Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 44 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 with bullhooks, right? A. Q. A. Q. Yes. All right. Yes. All right. And when you say "correct," you mean getting And that's to correct their behavior, right? the elephant to comply with your wishes; is that right? A. Q. Yes. For example, Benjamin was hit with a bullhook during the training process, wasn't he? A. Q. He would have, yes. And in addition to hitting the elephants with a bullhook, another way to correct them is to tie them up, put them in chains, right? A. Q. It can be. Okay. Now, none of the videotapes that you showed to the Court last week with your counsel during direct showed you separating any baby elephants from their mothers, right? A. Q. No. And none of those videotapes showed you restraining elephants on ropes or chains for weeks at a time in order to make them comply with your wishes, right? A. Q. No. And none of those videotapes showed you hitting elephants with a bullhook to correct them, did they? A. No. Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 45 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. And none of those videotapes showed you or your wife leading elephants around with ropes tied around their trunk, did they? A. Q. No. So those videotapes certainly did not reflect the way you actually train an elephant to perform a command for the first time, right? A. Q. No. All right. In fact, those videotapes we saw leave out a lot of steps, don't they, between when the baby elephant is born and when it's climbing on a barrel or playing a harmonica, right? A. Q. Certainly. And in fact, isn't it true that you have never video-taped any of your training sessions when were you actually teaching the elephants how to do their commands for the first time? A. Q. A. Q. We do not normally video, no. You've never done it, have you? I don't think so, no. And in fact, you would not let the public relations department or any other department of Feld Entertainment to come down there and videotape one of those training sessions, would you? A. Q. We normally do not video. You wouldn't let the P.R. department come down and do it, Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 46 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 would you? A. Q. Probably not. And so what you've been showing -THE COURT: THE WITNESS: THE COURT: THE WITNESS: know. THE COURT: department? THE WITNESS: THE COURT: Public relations department. Why don't you think -- what is it about The public or the public relations Why? Why not? Pardon? Why not? I don't think they would understand, you the training that they wouldn't understand? THE WITNESS: Just tying them up. I'm sitting here defending that now, so, you know, it's a difficultness. THE COURT: THE WITNESS: THE COURT: THE WITNESS: based. It's difficult to defend that? It is in this modern world, yeah. Why is that difficult? Because everything is kind of born-free Everything has to be free and warm and fuzzy and, you know, we handle elephants and then, you know, they handle thousands of them in Asia and they tie them up and they have bullhooks, you know, but in the modern world it's just more difficult to explain, your Honor. THE COURT: It is. Do you have a feel for what the reaction Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 47 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 of the public would be, not the public relations department, the reaction of the public to training film? THE WITNESS: I think most of them, if it was explained to them, you know, without reasonable thought process, the average public would think it was all right. THE COURT: Do you think your training procedures as discussed with the attorney a few minutes ago are humane? THE WITNESS: A lot of this has changed since some of As time goes on, we figure out how these statements were made. to be simpler and easier doing these things. THE COURT: THE WITNESS: More humane? Just work out better. People have learned quite bit in the last twenty, thirty years. THE COURT: BY MS. MEYER: Q. So what you have been showing the judge when you showed Go ahead. those training videos last week are really tapes of rehearsals of elephants who have already been trained, right? A. The long tape, yes. The other was still training in progress. Q. Now, it's true, isn't it, that over the years Ringling Brothers handlers have been attacked by elephants? A. Q. Pardon? It's true that Ringling Brothers handlers have been attacked by elephants over the years, isn't it? Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 48 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Yes. And in fact, Axle Gautier was killed by a Ringling Brothers' elephant, wasn't he? A. Q. he? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Yes, he was. And he was killed by an elephant named Rena, right? Yes. When was that, early '90s? Yeah, early '90s. She stomped on him, right? Pardon? She stomped on him, didn't she? I'm not sure. I wasn't there. Yes, he, he was. And he was an elephant handler for the Blue Unit, wasn't Have you ever heard the term "Mexican hat dance" in reference to elephants? A. Q. No. Okay. And Axle Gautier and his sons Michael and Kevin worked for Ringling Brothers for many years, right? A. Q. they? A. Q. Yes. And they were abusive towards the elephants with a Yes. His sons Michael and Kevin were trained by them, weren't Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 49 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 bullhook, weren't they? A. Q. Yes. And after Rena attacked and killed Axle Gautier, she stayed at the CEC, right, for a while? A. Q. Yes. And then she was at some point given to the Phoenix Zoo; is that right? A. Q. A. Q. Yes. And that was in 1999? Yes, it was. Now, there was another incident in 2005 when an elephant at Do you remember the CEC knocked a man down and stepped on him. that? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Yes. That guy's name was David Mannis, right? Yes. And he had to go to the hospital by helicopter, right? Yes. Which elephant was that? Toby. And then there was another incident a little over a year ago involving the elephant named PT, right? A. Q. A. Yes. He knocked Joe Frisco down, didn't he? I believe so. Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 50 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. And that was out on the road, right? Miami. Florida, right? Yes. Not at the CEC? No. And Mr. Frisco had to go to the hospital, right? Yes. All right. And PT was only about three-and-a-half when that happened, right? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Yes. And he had just begun working with Mr. Frisco, right? No. He had worked with him down at the CEC? Yes. So Mr. Frisco had come down and trained with PT at the CEC before taking him out to Miami; is that right? A. Q. No. Okay. He hadn't worked with -- he had trained with PT at the CEC, though, right? A. Q. Earlier, yes. I see. Okay. And after PT knocked Mr. Frisco down and Mr. Frisco had to go to the hospital, PT went back to the CEC, right? A. Yes. Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 51 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. And has he remained at the CEC since? Yes. Now, there was a recent incident at the CEC involving the elephant named Emma, wasn't there? A. Q. Yes. All right. And she knocked Randy Peterson down and stepped on him, didn't she? A. Q. A. Q. I don't know if she stepped on him. He had to go to the hospital, right? Yes. He has a large scar on his face, doesn't he, from the incident? A. Q. He had stitches, yes. Okay. And Emma is that elephant we talked about earlier that you said was chained for about 22-and-a-half hours a day, right? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. That's Emma. And how old is she now, about 36? Something like that, yes. And Randy Peterson's been at the CEC for while, hasn't he? Yes. And before that -- well, at the CEC he had some responsibility for handing Lutzi, Karen, Jewell, Susan, and Zina right? A. Yes. Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 52 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. And before he was at the CEC, he was on the Blue Unit, wasn't he? A. Q. Yes. Where he handled those elephants plus Karen and Nicole, right? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Yes. Now, Mr. Jacobson, do you know what a hot shot is? Yes. It's also called an electric shot, right? Yes. You've used an electric shock on elephants, haven't you? Yes. You've used one on a male elephant to collect semen for the artificial insemination program at the CEC, right? A. Q. A. Not to collect semen, no. Well, for what purpose then? The males are quite dangerous and it's to keep them from going after you while you collect semen. Q. Let's go to Mr. Jacobson's October deposition, page 199. I want to show you some testimony that you gave me at your October 2007 deposition, Mr. Jacobson. Question: on an elephant? Answer. Question: Yes. When was that? I see. Page 9199, line 1. Have you ever had to use a hot shot Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 53 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Yes. Answer: Question: Answer: Question: Answer: The last time I guess was collecting semen. When was that? A month ago. Okay. Raja. Which elephant? Do you see that? And you've also used electric shock on elephants when they wouldn't go into a truck fast enough, haven't you? A. Q. No. How about when you wanted to send Casey to the Fort Worth Zoo, you used an electric shock on him, didn't you, to get him up on the truck? A. Q. A. Q. Yes. You shocked him with an electric shock, right? Yes. And when we visited the CEC and had an opportunity to inspect the tools, there included among the tools that you showed us were several hot shots, right? A. Q. Yes. I'd actually like to go to those photos, if I can. The first one is Will Call 118 at 21. couple of those hot shots, right? A. Q. Yes. This is a photograph of a And they're used at the CEC, aren't they? Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Yes. Okay. Now I'd like to go to May Call 54 at page 374. And this is another hot shot, isn't it? A. Q. A. Yes. And that's used at the CEC, right? Yes. MS. MEYER: I'd actually like to move into evidence those photographs, your Honor. THE COURT: MS. JOINER: Any objection? Object as irrelevant for the reasons stated in our pretrial motion. THE COURT: MS. MEYER: All right. Admitted. Actually, before we move on, I'd also like to, before I forget, I'd like to move in the two statements to the USDA that Mr. Jacobson talked about, which were Exhibits 12 and 13 to his deposition. THE COURT: Let me ask you a question. The hot shots, that's not a pled allegation in your complaint, the use of the hot shot. What's the -MS. MEYER: "other instruments." It's not, your Honor. Actually we do say We talk about the bullhook and other instruments, and it's certainly relevant to how they treat the animals, your Honor. THE COURT: MS. MEYER: For that limited purpose, I'll let it in. Thank you. I would like to move in those Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 55 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 two statements that Mr. Jacobson gave to USDA before I forget, which were Exhibits 12 and 13 to his deposition. THE COURT: MS. JOINER: THE COURT: MS. JOINER: MS. MEYER: THE COURT: Ms. Joiner? Objection; hearsay. His statements? Yes, sir. They're admissions, your Honor. Admitted. His statements? (Plaintiff Exhibit Nos. MC54 and GJ 12 and 13 were admitted into evidence at about 11:11 a.m.) BY MS. MEYER: Q. Now, is the CEC still under quarantine by the state of Florida? A. Q. Yes. And that's due to the fact that some of the elephants tested positive for TB, right? A. Q. Yes. All right. And because of that quarentine, none of the elephants kept in the main barn at the CEC are allowed to leave the CEC, right? A. Q. Correct. And that would include Susan, Jewell, Lutzi, Mysore, and Zina, right? A. Q. Correct, yes. They're not allowed to leave the CEC right now because of Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 56 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that quarantine, right? A. Correct. THE COURT: Is that the reason why those people have the air filters on every day? THE WITNESS: I will assume that that's why they had them on, but there would be other reasons also. THE COURT: THE WITNESS: What are the other reasons? Anybody coming near our elephants has to have a clean TB test, so if a person doesn't want to have a clean TB test given, then they can put a mask on. THE COURT: THE WITNESS: THE COURT: Any other reasons? No. The other day you said were you unaware of Isn't that what you any reasons why people were wearing them. told me the other day? THE WITNESS: Right. But basically I just didn't think of why they would have them on. THE COURT: BY MS. MEYER: Q. That actually was going to be my next question, your Honor, Right. because you did testify last week you didn't know why those of us who had masks on at that inspection were wearing masks, but it was because of the quarentine, right? A. No. I think it's because there were -- you had to have a clean TB of test to come on the property. Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 57 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. So it was because there was a TB quarentine, right? No. It was because people coming from other elephant If we hire an employee, facilities are coming into our place. they have to have a clean TB test to come near the elephants. Q. Okay. Now, on direct you -- actually before I leave that, the Williston facility which Feld Entertainment also runs, is also under quarentine by the state of Florida; is that correct? A. Q. Yes. And that's because some of the elephants there have tested positive for TB, right? A. Q. Yes. Now, you mentioned on direct an entity called Circus World. Do you remember that? A. Q. A. Q. Yes. All right. Yes. That was a stationary circus operated by Ringling Brothers, That was the Circus World theme park, right? wasn't it? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Yes. And it was operated in Florida, correct? Yes. For many years, right? Ten years probably. 1974 to 1986? Right, but I don't know what part of that Feld owned it, Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 58 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 so ... Q. And operated, but it was operated by Ringling Brothers, right? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Not the entire time, no. But for a chunk of that time, right? Yes. And that was a theme park with the circus motif, right? Correct. There were elephants on display, right? Yes. Were there other animals there? Yes. And there were acrobats and other performers, right? Yes. And actually, many of the elephants at issue in this case were used in that theme park, right? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. I think so. Lutzi, Susan, Jewell, Karen, right? Yes. And Zina did a stint there as well, didn't she? Yes. And Buckles Woodcock was in charge of the circus theme park for Ringling Brothers, right? A. Q. Some of the time. And he was the head elephant handler for the Blue Unit for Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 59 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 about twenty months beginning in January 1995, sorry, January 1994 until December of 1995, isn't that right? A. Q. I'm not sure when he left. Okay. He was the head elephant handler for the Blue Unit, Buckles Woodcock, at a time when Karen, Nicole, Lutzi, Susan, Jewell and Mysore were all on the Blue Unit, right? A. Q. I believe they were there, yes. So they would have been handled by him at that point in time, right? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Yes. Now, Mr. Jacobson, you know who Tom Rider is, right? Vaguely. He's the plaintiff in this case, right? Yes, right. Okay. And you actually crossed paths on the Blue Unit in the late 1990s, didn't you? A. Q. I'm sure we did. All right. And you know that for the last several years Mr. Rider has been going around the country telling people what he saw when he worked for the circus, right? A. Q. Yeah, I believe so, yeah. You've known about those activities of Mr. Rider since at least 2002, right? A. Q. I would imagine. Okay. I'd actually like to, and you reported -- actually Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 60 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 did you not report to higher-ups at Feld Entertainment that Mr. Rider was going around the country talking about what he had seen at the circus back in 2002? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. I believe so. Okay. Oh, my. So you remember doing that, right? There were some conversations about Mr. Rider. I'm sorry, there were some conversations about Mr. Rider? Yes. You actually sent an e-mail to Richard Froemming, who was vice president of circus operations in 2002 telling him about Mr. Rider speaking to various groups in the legislature, and I think it was in Rhode Island, about the elephants in the Ringling Brothers Circus, right? A. Q. I don't remember that. Okay. Well, let's actually take a look at FEI 38333. You see at the top it This is a string of e-mails, Mr. Jacobson. says from Gary Jacobson, that's you, right? A. Q. A. Q. 2002? A. Q. A. He was the vice president. Vice president for circus operations? Yes. Um-hmm. It says to Richard Froemming, right? Yes. What was Mr. Froemming's role at Feld Entertainment in Do you see the date? Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 61 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. And do you see what the subject line is? Yes, I do. It says Tom Rider Information. Yes. And actually you are forwarding an e-mail that you got from Do you see that? Do you see that? Cari Johnson, who's listed on the next line? A. Q. Yes. She's an expert who testified for Feld Entertainment in this case last week, right? A. Q. Yes. And again, the subject of her e-mail was Tom Rider. Do you see that? A. Q. Yes. Okay. And if we look at the e-mails that you're forwarding And this is to Mr. Froemming, let's actually go to page two. the e-mail that you were forwarding, if we go to that first full paragraph, it says: Todd, when you and I talked after the Greenberg hearing last week you said Tom Rider claimed he was covering all his own expenses and you asked me to look up quotes refuting that. Since up until last week he has admitted to At the bottom of this e-mail is a recent ASPCA paying his way. article from the Philadelphia Daily News where the reporter says the ASPCA pays his expenses. In addition, I pasted a copy of my Rider was asked about notes from the Providence hearing below. the expense issue in the following up questions and answers. Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 62 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Yes. Do you see that? So this is you forwarding this information to Mr. Froemming about Mr. Rider's expenses being paid by the ASPCA, right? A. Q. I do not remember the e-mail, but obviously I sent it. Okay. If we go to page four of this document, which is the part of the e-mail that was cut and pasted from the Providence hearing, if you look at the paragraph towards the end where we have a representative from Providence, Rhode Island, Representative Caprio, and he said where do you live, what do you do now that you don't work for Ringling? Tom said he follows Ringling around to protect my girls, the elephants, and the ASPCA pays his expenses for traveling. When probed by Caprio, Tom said ASPCA pays for hotels, bus fare, meals, a new set of luggage, and other expenses. So Caprio asked if he has any living expenses at all and Tom said no, but he said if ASPCA didn't pay for everything he'd still do it. fight for my girls. A. Q. Yes. So this is the information you were forwarding to Mr. End quote. Quote, I'd help Do you see that? Froemming, right? A. Q. A. Q. Yes. And that was in 2002, right? Yes. So if Feld Entertainment counsel makes the representation Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 63 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 to the Court that Feld Entertainment didn't know until sometime in 2005 that Mr. Rider was having his expenses paid by the ASPCA, that wouldn't be correct, right? MR. SIMPSON: THE COURT: some point. MS. MEYER: your Honor. THE COURT: redirect? All right. How much time do you need for All right. I have no further questions, Objection; argumentative. The Court will determine credibility at I was going to take a fifteen-minute recess at 11:30, but I'm just inquiring how much time you might need. MS. JOINER: minutes, Judge. THE COURT: curtail you. All right, fine. I'm not trying to Go ahead. I think I can do this in about ten I just thought I'd ask. Okay. MS. JOINER: Thank you. REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. JOINER: Q. You discussed just a moment ago the quarentine. Are Shirley and Emma both under quarentine at the CEC? A. Q. Yes. And what impact, if any, has that had on the amount of time that they spent on chains every day? A. Q. None. And can you tell us who is with Emma and Shirley at this Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 64 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 time? A. Q. A. Q. Mable. And how old did you say Mable was? I believe she'll be three in April. Now, of those three elephants, would you tell us which ones have tested positive for TB? A. Q. Shirley. And Ms. Meyer asked you whether or not she was being Do you recall that? She did not ask me. Do you know whether or not Shirley is being treated. A. Q. No. Oh, okay. treated at this time for TB? A. Q. A. No, she is not. Why is that? Because of the fact that the TB medicine may be passed off into the milk. Q. A. Into the milk for which elephant? Into the milk that Mable drinks. She's still nursing on her mother. Q. Okay. You were asked some questions about access to water. Other than the times that the elephants are watered during the day, do you ever provide other forms of water to the elephant? A. Q. A. We have sprinkler systems. When do you use those? It depends on the weather. Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 65 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. What kind of weather would it take to turn them on? Quite hot. These elephants are used to hot weather. Let me also ask you, what does the TB quarentine do, if anything, to the ability for Shirley, Mable, or Emma to travel? A. Q. They cannot travel. The topic of Ricardo's birth, you were asked about calfs Do you recall that? being kicked. A. Q. No. Okay. Well, you were shown some video footage. Let me just ask you this: A. How often do moms kick their newborn calfs? Almost every time there's one born if we don't get it away quick enough. Q. A. Q. And what could be the harm that could result from that? Cows kill the calfs sometimes. With regard to Ricardo, had there ever been a guide used on that elephant prior to the time of his death? A. Q. No. Can you describe for us what were the health issues that Ricardo had at the time of his birth? A. Q. that? A. Q. A. We ended up attempting to bottle-raise him. Who bottled-raised him? My wife primarily. He did not willingly nurse on the mother. And what, if anything, did you have to do as a result of Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 66 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. What did that entail? 24-hour around-the-clock feeding. At the time that Ricardo was in the yard with both of you, what type of training was he undergoing? A. day. Q. A. Q. Was he in any way being pulled or forced on to the tub? Not at all. If you know, Mr. Jacobson, when does the USDA investigate It's just a little informal exercise thing we did every elephant events that Feld Entertainment has? A. Q. What do you mean? Are you aware of when the USDA will investigate events with elephants? A. Q. A. If there's an incident, then they would investigate. And what kind of an incident would that entail? If an elephant maybe runs away or hurts somebody or anything, that's noteworthy. Q. At what age do the males in the CEC become -- strike that. At what age do the males in the CEC go to their own separate yards? A. Q. We like to do it by the time they're eight. What, if anything, is the difference between what you were describing as a wild young elephant and an imported elephant? MS. MEYER: BY MS. JOINER: Objection, your Honor; leading. Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 67 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. What, if any, is the difference? THE COURT: THE WITNESS: Yes, that's fine. Well, we say they're wild because they're wild animals, but they're really more like domesticated because we touch them before their mothers do, so they're primarily pretty used to us from the minute they hit the ground on, so they're not technically wild like from Asia. they're thoroughly used to a human's touch. THE COURT: difference? But you say they were wild, so what's the You know, You're either domesticated or wild or some combination, I guess. THE WITNESS: It seems to be a combination of both. It would It would be a lot simpler if they were domesticated. be a lot simpler if there was value put on them. As soon as you take the value away from any animal, then its chains of survival are very poor. THE COURT: mean by a value? liberty? THE WITNESS: Well, it's not that so much. I don't So what do you mean by that, what do you Confinement is taking away a value, isn't it, know how to put this in words in two seconds. If there's no commercial value, then the people in the range states have no reason to keep them alive. You know, in Africa they have them in the parks, so it's important that they be able to drive through the parks and see the elephants, and in three lockets, Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 68 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the same thing. They go out there and view the elephants if Otherwise all they are are there's some money to be made. vermin that destroy their villages and make a lot of people hungry. They shoot three elephants a week over there. It's a travesty, but nobody can do much about it, you know, so ... BY MR. SIMPSON: Q. How do you determine whether or not a young elephant can be trained with its mother? A. Q. A. A lot of that depends on the mother. And why do you say that? If the mother will let you handle the baby elephant, then Some you can be with the baby and the mother at the same time. of the mothers won't let you handle the babies. Q. On the topic of separation, you were asked some questions. How long have you been separating elephants, Mr. Jacobson? A. Q. A. Q. A. Since August 1996. And how, if at all, has that -'95. I'm sorry. '95. How, if at all, has that process changed since that time? Well, then we would just take them away from their mothers and tie them up, and then now we -- some of them we leave with the mothers if the mothers will permit it, and then others we tie up for a short amount of time. The one little female was on The little male next one chain for four months, not two chains. to her was completely loose at the same time, so it all varies Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 69 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 from one elephant to another from different circumstances. Q. A. When, if at all, are hot shots used at the CEC? We use hot shots primarily for self-defense and protection. Normally it's just when there's a male involved, the adult males. Q. A. And when would you use it with an adult male? If you're collecting semen or working on their feet or loading one in a truck, you would always have a hot shot there for safety. Q. And when, if at all, do you use a hot shot just to handle elephants? A. Normally we never do. MS. JOINER: THE COURT: I have nothing further, your Honor. Any questions? CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS. MEYER: Q. Mr. Jacobson, Emma and Shirley are not kept in the same There's a partition between them, space together, are they? right? A. Yes. MS. MEYER: further. THE COURT: Thank you. That's it, your Honor. I have nothing All right. You can step down. The elephants aren't -- are all of the elephants that are born at the CEC the Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 70 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 product of artificial insemination? THE WITNESS: We have had one calf born to artificial. The rest are all natural. THE COURT: THE WITNESS: THE COURT: selecting the semen. THE WITNESS: THE COURT: Pardon? How prevalent, how common is that practice All right. One artificial birth. So how prevalent is that process then, of selecting the semen. THE WITNESS: that have males. THE COURT: So what do you do, do you market that or It's fairly common for the institutions something to other institutions? THE WITNESS: institutions. THE COURT: THE WITNESS: You sell it? No, no, no, we do not sell it. Ours is Oh, no, no, no. We give it to other SSP just given to other organizations. MS. JOINER: Your Honor, in light of your question, I think I maybe better ask one more to clarify. THE COURT: Go ahead. REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. JOINER: Q. Since we're on this topic now, let me ask you, would you Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 71 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 explain what the difference is between electro ejaculation and having a hot shot for collection? A. Electro ejaculation is a method that they first developed for dairy cows, and it's an electrical stimulant that's placed in the rectum and that stimulates the male. They don't use that at all in Ringling Brothers or in any other institution anymore to collect Asian elephants. did. Never. They had in the past. We never Because it's harmful for the insides of the elephants, so now there's an entirely different way of selecting and the hot shot is just there leaning against the pipes for safety, is all. It's not used to stimulate anything. Nothing further. There's a more humane way of doing that? Much, much more so, yes. I mean, is this relevant? I have no further questions, your Honor. All right. MS. JOINER: THE COURT: THE WITNESS: THE COURT: MS. MEYER: THE COURT: I'm going to resist the question. MS. MEYER: THE COURT: further proceedings. MS. JOINER: courtroom? THE COURT: MS. JOINER: Absolutely. Okay. Sure. Would it be okay if he sits in the Me too. I'm going to excuse the witness from Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 72 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 witness. 11:30. THE COURT: THE WITNESS: THE COURT: You can step down. Thank you. I have to ask you not to discuss your testimony with anyone, all right? The Court will take a fifteen-minute recess. It's COURTROOM DEPUTY: Remain seated. (Recess taken at about 11:32 a.m.) COURTROOM DEPUTY: THE COURT: Remain seated and come to order. All right, counsel, call your next MS. JOINER: Defendant calls Dr. Friend. Do you solemnly swear or affirm COURTROOM DEPUTY: that the testimony you're about to give will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? DR. FRIEND: THE COURT: THE WITNESS: I do. Good morning. Good morning. THEODORE H. FRIEND, WITNESS FOR THE DEFENDANT, SWORN BY MS. JOINER: Q. A. Q. A. Q. Would you please state your full name for us? Theodore H. Friend, F-r-i-e-n-d. Do you hold any degrees? Yes. In what? Jacqueline M. Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 10 mechanical [2] 120:14, 120:17 medical [1] - 106:10 medicine [1] - 64:14 meeting [1] - 77:22 members [1] - 77:22 membership [1] - 77:2 mental [1] - 107:6 mention [14] - 27:23, 28:3, 28:5, 28:8, 28:12, 28:15, 29:17, 29:20, 29:23, 30:1, 30:2, 31:22, 31:25, 90:8 mentioned [3] - 31:17, 38:15, 57:12 merits [1] - 114:19 metal [1] - 8:12 method [5] - 71:2, 106:13, 106:16, 108:8, 108:10 methodology [1] 81:3 Metzler [2] - 17:8, 17:14 Mexican [1] - 48:16 MEYER [31] - 1:14, 3:7, 4:16, 4:19, 5:25, 11:3, 16:12, 20:11, 20:12, 29:2, 33:7, 33:9, 33:21, 37:8, 37:9, 47:15, 54:7, 54:13, 54:20, 54:25, 55:7, 55:11, 56:19, 63:6, 66:23, 69:15, 69:20, 71:15, 71:18, 82:6, 110:15 Meyer [7] - 1:16, 3:7, 3:9, 4:15, 64:7, 127:4, 127:5 Miami [2] - 50:2, 50:17 Michael [2] - 48:19, 48:22 MICHELLE [1] - 1:20 Michelle [1] - 3:20 microphone [1] 79:13 middle [1] - 27:10 might [11] - 4:25, 5:4, 35:22, 36:13, 63:10, 79:4, 79:5, 104:11, 109:16, 118:3, 118:20 milk [3] - 64:15, 64:16, 64:17 million [1] - 6:17 mind [3] - 14:17, 36:17, 87:12 miniature [1] - 119:6 minoxide [2] - 117:14, 117:18 minute [5] - 63:9, 67:5, 72:4, 99:16, 110:19 minutes [8] - 43:4, 43:7, 47:7, 63:12, 109:19, 112:3, 112:4, 112:6 miss [1] - 17:25 missing [2] - 109:2, 113:14 modern [2] - 46:17, 46:23 moment [2] - 63:18, 97:22 moms [1] - 65:9 Monday [1] - 1:6 money [1] - 68:1 monitor [1] - 10:22 monoxide [1] - 118:17 month [2] - 30:8, 53:3 months [12] - 16:21, 19:2, 19:9, 21:8, 22:1, 23:14, 27:16, 29:7, 30:7, 43:4, 59:1, 68:23 morning [33] - 3:10, 3:12, 3:15, 3:17, 3:19, 3:20, 3:22, 3:24, 4:1, 4:2, 4:4, 4:5, 4:8, 4:11, 4:20, 4:21, 5:18, 5:22, 7:6, 8:5, 8:15, 9:5, 10:5, 10:8, 10:24, 11:1, 11:12, 12:1, 32:3, 34:9, 72:16, 72:17 MORNING [1] - 1:11 Most [3] - 74:13, 101:11, 115:7 most [10] - 47:3, 75:11, 88:10, 92:25, 93:3, 93:9, 108:8, 120:7, 121:10, 124:6 mostly [3] - 78:4, 80:2, 98:10 mother [12] - 38:16, 40:20, 40:23, 41:19, 41:23, 43:2, 64:18, 65:19, 68:7, 68:8, 68:10, 68:11 mothers [16] - 12:20, 12:22, 36:8, 36:9, 36:18, 41:4, 41:14, 42:4, 42:12, 43:14, 44:17, 67:4, 68:12, 68:19, 68:21 motife [1] - 58:7 motion [4] - 54:11, 112:9, 112:13, 112:17 mounted [1] - 120:8 mourning [1] - 18:2 move [12] - 54:7, 54:13, 54:14, 54:25, 82:6, 82:25, 84:19, 85:12, 86:3, 87:24, 115:10, 116:23 MR [41] - 3:10, 3:15, 3:22, 4:5, 5:21, 5:23, 63:3, 68:5, 82:10, 83:3, 83:7, 83:24, 84:22, 85:15, 86:6, 88:3, 89:15, 89:18, 89:20, 91:3, 92:3, 92:21, 100:20, 107:15, 107:18, 108:15, 108:22, 109:3, 109:6, 109:13, 109:16, 109:21, 109:24, 110:2, 110:23, 111:2, 111:6, 111:10, 111:19, 116:19, 117:1 MS [98] - 3:7, 3:12, 3:17, 3:20, 3:24, 4:2, 4:8, 4:16, 4:19, 5:25, 11:3, 16:8, 16:12, 20:11, 20:12, 29:2, 33:4, 33:7, 33:9, 33:19, 33:21, 37:8, 37:9, 47:15, 54:7, 54:10, 54:13, 54:20, 54:25, 55:4, 55:6, 55:7, 55:11, 56:19, 63:6, 63:11, 63:15, 63:17, 66:23, 66:24, 69:12, 69:15, 69:20, 70:19, 70:23, 71:11, 71:15, 71:18, 71:21, 71:24, 72:11, 72:19, 74:18, 74:21, 74:25, 79:14, 79:16, 79:18, 82:6, 82:14, 82:25, 83:9, 83:14, 83:19, 84:3, 84:8, 84:19, 85:1, 85:4, 85:12, 85:19, 86:3, 86:9, 86:12, 87:10, 87:15, 87:16, 87:24, 88:7, 89:10, 89:17, 109:5, 110:15, 110:17, 111:24, 112:5, 112:8, 113:3, 113:15, 113:20, 114:15, 114:22, 116:1, 116:3, 116:15, 116:22, 117:5, 126:19 multi [1] - 115:18 multi-plexers [1] 115:18 musical [1] - 14:14 Mysore [3] - 7:4, 55:22, 59:6 N N.W [2] - 1:16, 1:22 name [3] - 49:15, 72:20, 95:6 named [10] - 9:11, 9:19, 22:4, 32:23, 38:23, 39:4, 39:7, 48:8, 49:22, 51:4 natural [1] - 70:2 nature [2] - 73:12, 73:13 Nautious [1] - 117:14 nautious [1] - 117:17 near [3] - 56:8, 57:4, 92:6 need [7] - 40:23, 63:8, 63:10, 109:9, 109:15, 110:1, 110:21 needs [1] - 112:5 nervous [1] - 17:13 never [7] - 30:2, 45:14, 45:18, 69:11, 71:6, 106:5, 110:15 Never [1] - 71:7 new [3] - 62:13, 102:16, 126:9 newborn [1] - 65:9 News [1] - 61:21 newspaper [1] - 96:8 next [23] - 7:6, 8:5, 8:15, 9:5, 11:11, 11:23, 11:25, 12:1, 25:25, 27:18, 32:10, 32:11, 32:19, 42:16, 56:20, 61:5, 68:23, 72:9, 76:11, 84:9, 85:5, 101:5, 122:11 Nicole [2] - 52:4, 59:5 night [5] - 7:10, 7:23, 8:10, 9:9, 10:12 nine [3] - 15:22, 18:7, 19:5 nobody [2] - 27:9, 68:4 noification [1] 105:17 nomadic [1] - 125:25 None [1] - 63:23 none [7] - 7:11, 44:15, 44:19, 44:23, 45:1, 55:18, 115:3 nonrepairable [2] 32:16, 32:24 normal [12] - 10:7, 12:1, 40:25, 41:2, 90:4, 103:11, 117:24, 118:1, 119:1, 119:2, 119:3, 123:17 normally [4] - 10:25, 11:12, 45:17, 45:24 Normally [5] - 10:6, 41:3, 41:9, 69:3, 69:11 Nos [2] - 55:9, 88:5 notary [2] - 26:25, 27:1 note [1] - 83:3 notes [1] - 61:23 noteworthy [1] - 66:16 Nothing [1] - 71:11 nothing [6] - 17:23, 35:17, 69:12, 69:20, 72:14, 107:15 notice [1] - 26:23 noticed [1] - 124:23 November [10] 16:22, 25:4, 25:8, 26:10, 26:12, 26:19, 30:11, 30:25, 34:25, 35:2 number [7] - 80:4, 83:6, 83:16, 83:18, 83:20, 92:22, 97:16 numbers [1] - 78:15 numerous [1] - 80:1 nurse [3] - 21:2, 22:18, 65:19 nursing [2] - 41:5, 64:17 NW [1] - 2:3 O o'clock [5] - 7:6, 8:4, 8:15, 10:11, 11:16 oath [1] - 25:11 obey [1] - 40:15 Object [1] - 54:10 Objection [7] - 16:8, 33:4, 33:19, 35:10, 55:4, 63:3, 66:23 objection [11] - 54:9, 82:9, 83:2, 83:25, 84:21, 84:25, 85:14, 85:15, 86:5, 88:2, 116:25 objections [4] 107:16, 107:22, 111:12, 114:7 Jacqueline Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 11 objective [3] - 74:14, 81:6, 81:9 objectives [3] - 81:5, 86:17, 86:18 obseration [1] - 122:6 observation [2] 103:16, 120:19 observational [5] 81:13, 81:14, 81:20, 106:25, 107:7 observer [1] - 101:23 obsolete [1] - 115:9 obtain [1] - 106:22 obtained [1] - 102:15 obviously [4] - 34:24, 62:4, 108:7, 111:16 occasion [1] - 118:11 occur [1] - 94:3 occurred [3] - 16:14, 31:23, 105:21 occurring [1] - 93:17 October [9] - 7:2, 8:2, 9:1, 9:10, 9:18, 22:9, 52:19, 52:21, 112:11 OF [3] - 1:1, 1:3, 1:11 offered [1] - 83:22 Official [2] - 2:2, 128:2 often [3] - 65:9, 122:12, 123:19 old [22] - 7:18, 8:24, 12:14, 15:13, 18:13, 18:18, 18:23, 19:4, 19:8, 21:8, 23:14, 32:23, 40:1, 40:3, 40:7, 40:8, 40:13, 41:8, 42:7, 51:18, 64:2 old-time [2] - 40:3, 40:13 old-timers [3] - 40:1, 40:3, 40:7 once [3] - 36:7, 102:14, 121:7 one [53] - 12:8, 14:19, 19:9, 24:3, 24:9, 25:8, 29:12, 30:2, 30:8, 40:18, 41:18, 42:14, 45:22, 52:13, 53:22, 65:10, 68:22, 68:23, 68:25, 69:7, 70:1, 70:20, 74:6, 75:18, 76:21, 77:3, 77:15, 79:4, 80:17, 82:2, 82:20, 84:9, 84:11, 84:22, 85:24, 86:6, 86:17, 87:4, 95:9, 97:4, 98:16, 100:2, 102:7, 106:23, 108:11, 109:3, 113:7, 120:10, 120:20, 121:20, 122:11, 125:24 One [5] - 27:13, 29:4, 70:4, 95:5, 107:23 ones [4] - 64:4, 75:11, 75:14, 87:3 oops [1] - 77:2 open [1] - 111:16 operated [4] - 57:17, 57:20, 58:2 operations [2] - 60:10, 60:23 opiates [1] - 125:12 opinion [7] - 17:22, 108:19, 119:11, 119:15, 122:7, 123:7, 123:16 opinions [1] - 108:11 opportunity [1] 53:17 opposed [1] - 108:13 opposite [1] - 80:21 opriori [1] - 80:16 optimal [1] - 73:20 option [1] - 95:25 order [6] - 39:15, 39:18, 44:20, 72:8, 99:19, 106:21 ordered [1] - 23:3 ordinarily [2] - 96:21, 106:19 organization [4] 75:24, 76:15, 76:19, 76:23 organizations [1] 70:18 Osgood [1] - 38:1 Osha [1] - 9:3 Otherwise [4] - 43:10, 68:1, 97:13, 122:22 otherwise [2] - 35:22, 105:6 othology [1] - 73:11 out-of-court [3] 90:18, 90:21, 91:5 Out-of-court [1] 90:20 outside [4] - 35:25, 109:18, 118:11, 119:3 oversees [1] - 77:7 own [2] - 61:18, 66:18 owned [1] - 57:25 ownership [1] - 105:3 P p.m [13] - 8:5, 8:15, 10:11, 82:13, 83:13, 85:3, 85:18, 86:11, 88:6, 109:20, 114:23, 117:4, 126:23 P.R [1] - 45:25 paddock [2] - 42:14, 42:17 Page [1] - 52:21 page [26] - 5:17, 6:13, 25:4, 25:13, 32:10, 32:11, 32:19, 32:20, 35:1, 35:4, 52:19, 54:2, 61:14, 62:5, 75:7, 76:11, 87:12, 91:8, 92:4, 94:7, 97:1, 101:4, 101:5, 101:6, 103:12, 103:13 pages [1] - 128:3 paid [3] - 62:3, 63:1, 89:4 panel [5] - 88:10, 88:11, 88:12, 88:15, 88:18 panting [1] - 107:2 papers [2] - 84:11, 108:7 paragraph [10] 27:11, 27:18, 29:4, 31:4, 32:21, 61:16, 62:7, 101:17, 102:10, 102:11 PARDO [1] - 1:20 Pardon [5] - 6:10, 46:5, 47:23, 48:13, 70:7 park [4] - 57:15, 58:7, 58:16, 58:22 parks [2] - 67:23, 67:24 Part [1] - 43:25 part [16] - 10:2, 24:17, 26:6, 41:22, 43:14, 43:20, 43:22, 57:25, 62:6, 78:16, 82:7, 99:24, 112:12, 113:4, 113:5, 120:16 partially [1] - 78:13 participate [2] - 78:17, 123:14 participated [1] 86:23 particular [7] - 82:22, 84:14, 87:22, 99:15, 109:11, 113:9, 120:23 particularly [2] 35:25, 95:24 parties [1] - 111:15 partition [1] - 69:17 passed [1] - 64:14 past [3] - 41:11, 71:6, 125:9 pasted [2] - 61:22, 62:6 Pat [5] - 16:14, 16:16, 17:1, 23:1, 35:19 paths [1] - 59:15 pause [1] - 110:20 pay [2] - 62:16, 78:18 paying [1] - 61:20 payment [1] - 91:15 pays [3] - 61:22, 62:12, 62:13 PDF [1] - 74:19 pedastal [1] - 27:14 pedastals [1] - 27:15 pedestal [10] - 27:12, 27:19, 27:20, 27:24, 28:20, 28:22, 28:23, 29:5, 29:8, 29:12 pedestals [2] - 29:6, 29:10 peer [27] - 77:6, 79:4, 79:10, 93:16, 93:17, 93:19, 93:22, 93:24, 94:18, 94:20, 95:12, 95:18, 95:20, 95:23, 96:2, 96:10, 96:14, 96:16, 96:22, 97:3, 97:4, 97:12, 97:21, 98:24, 103:14, 108:3 peer-reviewed [8] 94:18, 95:20, 96:10, 96:14, 96:22, 97:21, 98:24, 103:14 peers [3] - 79:4, 79:5, 99:7 penalty [1] - 27:4 pending [1] - 110:5 Pennsylvania [1] 1:22 pens [1] - 75:20 people [24] - 5:3, 40:4, 40:5, 40:9, 40:10, 40:13, 56:3, 56:14, 57:2, 59:19, 67:21, 68:2, 73:14, 73:16, 75:25, 76:1, 76:23, 76:25, 77:21, 88:18, 96:5, 98:13, 98:16, 122:20 People [1] - 47:12 per [8] - 89:2, 89:7, 89:25, 90:15, 91:10, 91:23, 92:11, 92:12 percent [1] - 74:4 perfectly [1] - 107:20 perform [9] - 13:8, 13:21, 14:9, 14:21, 14:25, 34:3, 45:6, 122:25, 123:21 performance [1] 123:17 performances [3] 18:5, 24:1, 24:4 performers [1] - 58:13 performing [5] 15:15, 15:17, 81:18, 122:17, 123:19 perhaps [3] - 96:25, 108:8, 122:1 period [3] - 19:1, 42:1, 121:22 periods [1] - 115:9 perjury [1] - 27:4 permit [1] - 68:21 permitted [1] - 111:14 person [5] - 56:9, 96:4, 120:20, 121:24, 121:25 personal [2] - 74:22, 74:23 personally [1] 105:24 pertained [1] - 111:6 pertaining [2] 106:11, 110:5 Peterson [1] - 51:6 Peterson's [1] - 51:20 PETTEWAY [2] - 1:19, 4:2 Petteway [1] - 4:3 ph [1] - 73:17 Ph.D [1] - 73:1 Philadelphia [1] 61:21 Phoenix [1] - 49:6 photograph [1] 53:22 photographs [1] 54:8 photos [1] - 53:21 Physiology [1] - 80:8 picture [1] - 14:18 pigs [2] - 93:7, 102:19 pinky [1] - 119:7 pipes [1] - 71:9 place [6] - 10:17, 23:3, 57:3, 114:6, 125:24, 126:2 placed [2] - 31:18, 71:3 plaintiff [4] - 5:19, 59:13, 83:23, 102:1 Plaintiff [2] - 1:5, 55:9 plaintiff's [2] - 83:16, 83:17 plaintiffs [10] - 3:7, Jacqueline Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 12 3:11, 3:13, 3:16, 3:18, 3:21, 83:4, 84:4, 110:22, 112:10 Plaintiffs [1] - 1:14 Plaintiffs' [7] - 5:8, 12:9, 18:16, 83:25, 84:23, 86:7, 127:13 plaintiffs' [1] - 83:20 plants [1] - 73:21 platform [1] - 32:17 play [8] - 12:9, 14:20, 14:24, 27:14, 27:15, 29:5, 29:6, 29:16 played [3] - 12:11, 19:25, 20:21 playground [3] - 6:2, 6:14, 6:16 playing [19] - 14:13, 27:16, 28:17, 28:19, 28:22, 28:23, 28:25, 29:1, 29:7, 29:8, 29:15, 32:17, 32:25, 34:1, 34:10, 45:11, 121:14 pled [1] - 54:18 plexers [1] - 115:18 plus [1] - 52:4 point [8] - 11:15, 33:4, 49:6, 59:8, 63:5, 101:24, 104:17, 110:7 pointed [1] - 95:23 policy [1] - 77:23 pond [4] - 15:4, 16:4, 16:7, 17:21 pool [2] - 101:19, 103:2 Poole's [1] - 116:7 poor [1] - 67:15 portion [4] - 82:16, 103:24, 104:1, 104:19 position [3] - 103:8, 107:10, 108:23 positions [1] - 77:3 positive [4] - 22:13, 55:16, 57:10, 64:5 possible [1] - 94:11 possibly [1] - 81:16 potentially [1] - 78:7 poultry [1] - 75:11 Poultry [1] - 75:15 practice [7] - 31:4, 70:8, 81:11, 101:18, 102:14, 103:11, 104:4 practiced [2] - 13:10, 89:24 precipitated [1] - 35:9 precise [1] - 109:10 prefer [1] - 80:25 pregnant [1] - 22:1 premises [1] - 124:9 prepare [1] - 86:13 prepared [1] - 101:13 preparing [1] - 116:13 presence [1] - 5:4 present [6] - 12:25, 16:1, 17:21, 19:12, 23:6, 77:16 preservation [1] 113:24 preserved [1] - 113:23 president [3] - 60:10, 60:22, 60:23 pretrial [1] - 54:11 pretty [2] - 29:19, 67:5 prevalent [2] - 70:5, 70:8 PREVENTION [1] - 1:3 Prevention [1] - 3:3 previous [1] - 116:20 previously [1] - 84:25 PREVIOUSLY [1] 4:17 primarily [3] - 65:24, 67:5, 69:2 primary [1] - 123:20 prime [3] - 6:17, 7:14, 7:24 probed [1] - 62:12 problem [4] - 111:21, 122:15, 122:21 problems [3] - 107:23, 119:13, 124:17 procedure [2] - 112:8, 114:6 procedures [1] - 47:6 proceed [2] - 81:5, 116:16 Proceed [1] - 116:21 Proceedings [1] - 2:7 proceedings [3] 71:20, 110:20, 128:4 process [20] - 13:15, 14:19, 23:20, 39:21, 40:25, 41:2, 43:20, 43:22, 43:25, 44:9, 47:4, 68:18, 70:5, 94:21, 95:1, 95:2, 97:4, 97:11, 108:4, 121:7 processes [1] - 95:3 produced [1] - 2:7 producing [1] 102:22 product [1] - 69:25 production [1] - 102:1 proferred [1] - 107:17 profession [1] - 73:6 Professional [2] 75:23, 76:12 professional [5] 75:24, 76:14, 76:18, 76:23 professorship [1] 73:7 proffer [1] - 106:20 program [5] - 52:14, 73:25, 78:14, 78:15, 78:20 progress [1] - 47:20 project [2] - 87:22, 96:4 projects [4] - 74:2, 74:13, 87:21, 103:23 promptly [1] - 126:20 property [3] - 16:11, 17:21, 56:25 proposed [3] - 78:15, 78:19, 102:23 protect [1] - 62:11 protection [1] - 69:2 Protection [1] - 78:10 provide [3] - 64:21, 74:13, 100:9 provided [10] - 10:14, 10:17, 26:6, 30:4, 30:25, 91:13, 101:25, 103:15, 103:18, 105:2 Providence [3] 61:23, 62:6, 62:8 provisionally [1] 116:21 psiology [2] - 80:8 psychological [1] 117:10 psychology [1] 121:13 psylogical [1] - 102:18 PT [7] - 38:3, 49:22, 50:9, 50:16, 50:19, 50:22, 50:23 public [9] - 6:8, 6:11, 45:20, 46:9, 47:1, 47:2, 47:5 Public [1] - 46:11 publication [21] 77:5, 86:1, 94:1, 94:14, 94:15, 95:21, 96:6, 96:10, 96:12, 96:14, 96:22, 98:5, 98:8, 98:13, 98:17, 98:23, 99:15, 100:16, 101:2, 103:9, 104:14 publications [19] 75:5, 75:10, 75:16, 79:25, 92:23, 93:3, 93:9, 93:10, 93:12, 93:13, 93:15, 95:4, 95:12, 97:16, 97:20, 98:2, 113:7, 113:9, 121:2 publicly [1] - 94:4 publish [3] - 77:5, 94:1, 103:5 published [14] - 75:8, 75:12, 75:14, 75:18, 82:4, 82:20, 84:14, 85:7, 85:24, 96:9, 96:13, 98:19, 100:14, 103:3 publishes [1] - 77:15 publishing [1] - 77:7 pulled [3] - 20:6, 20:15, 66:6 purchase [1] - 102:16 purpose [6] - 40:16, 41:4, 52:16, 54:24, 86:16, 122:4 purposes [8] - 13:25, 14:2, 14:5, 14:7, 14:15, 112:21, 114:8, 116:12 pursuant [1] - 105:8 put [16] - 7:18, 10:11, 23:23, 27:20, 31:10, 31:14, 42:14, 43:3, 44:12, 56:10, 67:13, 67:20, 87:12, 114:6, 120:7, 120:10 putting [1] - 89:25 quick [1] - 65:11 quite [9] - 17:16, 17:23, 18:13, 19:10, 34:17, 42:9, 47:13, 52:17, 78:6 Quite [1] - 65:1 Quote [1] - 62:16 quote [6] - 27:13, 31:4, 31:18, 34:17, 62:17, 91:9 quotes [4] - 31:8, 31:11, 31:14, 61:18 R radiation [1] - 118:12 rail [2] - 117:8, 120:9 railcars [2] - 120:9, 120:11 raise [1] - 65:22 raised [4] - 21:4, 21:6, 65:23, 111:11 Raja [1] - 53:5 Randy [2] - 51:6, 51:20 range [12] - 67:21, 74:11, 76:16, 76:24, 95:3, 117:24, 118:1, 119:1, 119:2, 119:3 ranges [2] - 119:10, 119:14 ranging [1] - 118:4 rank [1] - 73:14 rate [9] - 88:25, 89:25, 90:4, 90:13, 90:17, 91:12, 91:19, 92:13, 92:17 rather [2] - 108:20, 111:13 rationale [1] - 124:22 raw [1] - 96:23 reach [6] - 88:15, 118:22, 119:12, 121:16, 122:7, 124:14 reaching [1] - 33:11 reaction [3] - 46:25, 47:2, 122:10 read [6] - 6:1, 25:13, 35:3, 81:23, 87:11, 116:8 readily [4] - 119:19, 119:20, 119:21, 119:25 reads [2] - 96:9, 102:11 realize [1] - 84:3 really [6] - 10:25, 36:4, 47:17, 67:3, 75:7, Q qualifications [2] 82:8, 83:1 qualified [3] - 95:22, 107:17, 121:12 quantify [2] - 81:17, 81:19 quarantine [2] - 55:12, 56:1 quarentine [7] - 55:18, 56:23, 57:1, 57:7, 63:18, 63:19, 65:2 quarters [1] - 27:21 Questin [1] - 35:18 questions [22] - 4:25, 5:4, 26:13, 30:12, 33:7, 61:24, 63:6, 64:19, 68:13, 69:13, 71:15, 91:18, 94:11, 97:8, 97:11, 100:15, 106:13, 109:23, 111:23, 111:24, 114:25, 116:17 Jacqueline Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 13 121:21 reason [10] - 17:22, 27:6, 31:10, 41:14, 42:24, 56:3, 67:22, 106:19, 112:12, 125:8 reasonable [3] - 47:4, 119:10, 119:14 reasons [5] - 54:10, 56:6, 56:7, 56:11, 56:14 receipt [1] - 94:23 received [4] - 39:7, 78:2, 78:9, 115:16 receiving [1] - 14:5 recent [4] - 51:3, 61:20, 75:11, 93:9 recently [1] - 88:10 recess [3] - 63:9, 72:4, 126:23 Recess [1] - 72:7 recognize [8] - 75:1, 81:24, 82:17, 84:10, 85:6, 85:21, 87:17, 107:18 recollection [1] 25:19 record [6] - 3:6, 5:8, 18:14, 107:21, 110:4, 128:4 recorded [1] - 101:25 rectum [1] - 71:4 Red [2] - 86:24, 124:13 redacted [1] - 74:23 Redirect [2] - 127:5, 127:6 redirect [1] - 63:9 REDIRECT [2] - 63:16, 70:22 reduce [1] - 78:15 refer [2] - 79:3, 93:13 referee [2] - 78:25, 79:2 refereed [2] - 93:13, 93:15 reference [1] - 48:17 referenced [1] 117:21 references [1] - 75:7 referencing [1] - 118:2 referred [7] - 36:13, 92:22, 93:10, 95:4, 96:17, 97:17, 99:25 referring [3] - 79:25, 97:4, 100:16 refers [1] - 108:3 reflect [1] - 45:5 reflects [1] - 110:3 refresh [1] - 25:19 refused [1] - 21:2 refuting [1] - 61:19 regard [9] - 65:14, 117:7, 117:12, 117:19, 117:22, 118:5, 118:14, 119:9, 120:2 regarding [11] - 78:4, 79:19, 83:1, 86:14, 88:9, 118:22, 119:15, 122:7, 122:25, 123:16, 124:14 regardless [1] 112:24 regards [1] - 73:22 Registry [1] - 75:23 regular [1] - 119:18 regulations [1] - 36:1 rehearsals [1] - 47:17 rehire [2] - 35:5, 35:14 rehired [1] - 35:23 reinforcing [2] 123:25, 125:10 reject [1] - 97:13 related [2] - 92:20, 110:24 relates [2] - 78:12, 111:12 relating [1] - 98:2 relations [4] - 45:20, 46:9, 46:11, 47:1 relative [1] - 118:6 release [2] - 125:10, 125:11 released [2] - 120:1, 125:12 relevant [3] - 54:22, 71:14, 81:6 relied [6] - 33:10, 33:16, 33:22, 97:6, 103:15, 114:11 relief [3] - 113:21, 113:25, 114:1 relies [1] - 114:11 Remain [2] - 72:6, 72:8 remained [2] - 51:1, 101:18 remember [25] - 7:19, 8:5, 8:12, 8:16, 9:5, 9:13, 9:21, 11:17, 11:21, 25:5, 25:6, 25:9, 27:8, 30:15, 32:4, 34:17, 36:2, 36:15, 40:1, 49:12, 57:13, 60:5, 60:14, 62:4, 94:20 remove [2] - 40:19, 40:23 Rena [2] - 48:8, 49:3 rendering [1] - 116:13 repeat [1] - 34:21 repetitive [2] - 122:23, 124:20 repititious [1] - 125:2 repititious-type [1] 125:2 replaced [1] - 87:25 report [16] - 32:7, 32:19, 33:18, 60:1, 75:1, 87:20, 91:8, 91:22, 91:25, 92:4, 97:15, 97:17, 98:4, 99:25, 106:10, 116:13 Report [1] - 32:9 reported [4] - 2:7, 32:23, 59:25, 103:16 reportedly [1] - 32:16 reporter [1] - 61:21 Reporter [3] - 2:2, 2:2, 128:2 reports [2] - 89:2, 106:11 representation [1] 62:24 representative [1] 62:8 Representative [1] 62:9 request [3] - 110:21, 110:24, 113:17 require [1] - 114:4 required [1] - 13:6 research [19] - 74:2, 74:7, 74:9, 75:25, 76:15, 77:5, 78:5, 78:12, 81:3, 84:11, 85:24, 92:25, 102:12, 108:18, 115:17, 118:14, 119:8, 119:11, 123:9 Research [1] - 89:2 researched [1] - 78:21 resist [1] - 71:17 resolve [3] - 74:14, 114:16, 114:17 resources [1] - 102:11 respond [1] - 43:18 response [2] - 91:18, 125:2 responses [2] 117:11, 123:11 responsibility [1] 51:23 responsible [1] 43:17 responsive [1] - 125:4 rest [4] - 10:12, 20:19, 70:2, 74:7 restrained [3] - 41:20, 41:24, 42:24 restraining [1] - 44:19 restraints [7] - 31:5, 31:8, 31:10, 31:12, 31:14, 31:15, 89:12 result [7] - 25:22, 32:24, 35:7, 65:12, 65:20, 119:11, 123:7 results [4] - 87:20, 98:5, 101:22, 118:22 resume [1] - 85:11 resumes [1] - 114:23 retain [3] - 100:13, 104:4, 105:3 retained [2] - 105:18, 112:14 return [1] - 105:6 returned [1] - 101:19 reuse [1] - 102:15 reused [2] - 102:4, 105:10 review [24] - 79:6, 93:16, 93:17, 93:20, 93:22, 93:24, 94:3, 94:5, 94:20, 95:1, 95:12, 95:15, 95:19, 95:25, 96:16, 97:3, 99:10, 101:21, 102:14, 105:24, 108:4, 111:15, 116:11 reviewed [19] - 14:12, 34:8, 77:6, 79:4, 79:11, 79:17, 94:18, 95:20, 96:2, 96:10, 96:14, 96:22, 97:21, 98:24, 99:2, 99:3, 101:23, 103:14, 112:20 reviewers [12] - 79:5, 94:4, 94:23, 95:14, 95:16, 96:3, 96:18, 97:5, 97:12, 99:13, 103:14 Reviewing [1] - 77:10 reviewing [4] - 77:11, 77:21, 101:20, 121:18 reviews [2] - 93:18, 95:23 Rhode [2] - 60:12, 62:8 Ricardo [38] - 18:19, 18:21, 19:4, 19:12, 20:3, 21:2, 21:23, 22:1, 23:10, 23:19, 24:8, 24:11, 24:19, 26:17, 27:11, 27:14, 27:15, 27:24, 28:6, 28:19, 29:5, 29:7, 29:14, 31:5, 31:22, 32:8, 32:12, 32:15, 32:23, 33:17, 33:25, 34:3, 38:5, 65:14, 65:18, 66:2 Ricardo's [3] - 29:21, 31:18, 65:5 Richard [2] - 60:9, 60:19 Rider [13] - 5:18, 59:11, 59:19, 59:22, 60:2, 60:6, 60:7, 60:11, 61:2, 61:10, 61:17, 61:23, 63:1 RIDER [2] - 5:21, 5:23 Rider's [1] - 62:3 riding [1] - 120:20 Ringling [21] - 32:22, 47:21, 47:24, 48:2, 48:20, 57:17, 58:2, 58:23, 60:13, 62:10, 62:11, 71:5, 86:24, 87:5, 102:4, 120:20, 124:3, 124:10, 124:12, 124:15 road [10] - 13:22, 15:15, 15:17, 16:21, 17:4, 17:7, 17:13, 17:18, 50:1, 120:22 roam [9] - 6:18, 6:22, 6:25, 7:8, 8:8, 8:18, 9:7, 9:15, 9:23 roaming [3] - 7:14, 7:21, 7:24 Rochester [1] - 78:23 role [4] - 60:21, 73:25, 77:8, 77:19 roles [1] - 11:16 Romeo [1] - 38:5 roof [1] - 8:12 Room [1] - 2:3 rope [6] - 24:11, 24:13, 24:14, 24:16, 29:21, 31:18 ropes [4] - 41:19, 42:19, 44:20, 45:2 rotated [1] - 77:17 Roughly [2] - 7:7, 10:9 routine [4] - 13:10, 14:2, 121:13, 121:23 routinely [1] - 100:13 RPR [1] - 2:2 Rudy [2] - 9:3, 38:7 rule [1] - 110:8 rules [1] - 36:1 ruling [1] - 112:24 rulings [1] - 116:20 run [1] - 120:1 Jacqueline Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 14 runner's [1] - 125:16 Runner's [1] - 125:17 running [1] - 103:7 runs [2] - 57:6, 66:15 RV [1] - 124:9 S safety [2] - 69:8, 71:10 sample [1] - 121:24 Sanerib [1] - 3:12 SANERIB [2] - 1:15, 3:12 Sara [1] - 38:9 save [1] - 102:15 saw [4] - 34:8, 45:9, 59:20, 119:19 scar [1] - 51:11 scene [3] - 12:25, 20:3, 34:11 schedule [3] - 10:7, 12:1, 12:6 Schmitt [1] - 98:16 Science [8] - 75:15, 75:19, 76:17, 77:4, 77:7, 77:13, 95:6, 95:10 science [6] - 72:25, 73:2, 73:11, 73:20, 80:13 sciences [1] - 75:25 Sciences [1] - 76:4 scientific [13] - 81:11, 88:13, 93:20, 93:22, 95:20, 96:1, 96:22, 106:13, 106:16, 108:1, 108:8, 108:10, 108:17 scientist [2] - 108:9, 108:16 Scientists [1] - 75:23 scientists [3] - 76:14, 76:19, 106:20 scoring [1] - 122:2 scratching [2] - 121:6, 123:23 screen [1] - 5:9 scroll [1] - 75:9 seasons [1] - 102:23 seated [2] - 72:6, 72:8 second [7] - 10:10, 27:19, 29:4, 30:4, 31:3, 108:4 seconds [2] - 12:10, 67:20 Section [1] - 75:21 section [2] - 76:12, 77:25 see [55] - 5:9, 5:11, 5:18, 6:13, 6:18, 13:3, 18:18, 18:21, 18:23, 20:9, 20:13, 26:19, 27:16, 27:21, 30:18, 31:1, 31:6, 31:8, 31:19, 32:8, 32:10, 32:12, 32:14, 32:17, 32:25, 33:13, 50:22, 52:22, 53:6, 60:16, 60:19, 60:25, 61:2, 61:5, 61:11, 61:25, 62:17, 67:24, 81:1, 81:7, 82:16, 92:8, 94:24, 97:8, 117:23, 119:4, 121:14, 122:2, 122:15, 124:17, 125:1, 126:1, 126:5, 126:7 seeing [2] - 13:24, 18:23 seeking [1] - 113:21 seem [1] - 102:24 select [1] - 95:16 selected [1] - 95:14 selecting [3] - 70:6, 70:9, 71:8 self [3] - 69:2, 123:25, 125:10 self-defense [1] - 69:2 self-reinforcing [2] 123:25, 125:10 sell [2] - 70:16, 70:17 semen [7] - 52:13, 52:15, 52:18, 53:1, 69:6, 70:6, 70:9 semester [1] - 74:6 semesters [1] - 74:5 send [6] - 53:11, 94:2, 94:22, 95:14, 95:16, 105:12 sensitive [1] - 10:19 sent [2] - 60:9, 62:4 sentence [2] - 31:3, 32:14 separate [6] - 36:7, 41:4, 41:14, 42:14, 42:17, 66:19 separated [4] - 12:20, 42:3, 43:2, 43:13 separating [1] - 44:17 separation [1] - 68:13 sepparating [1] 68:14 September [1] 101:14 sequence [1] - 112:13 series [5] - 78:4, 80:1, 80:3, 123:4, 123:5 serve [2] - 88:10, 95:4 serves [1] - 76:1 SESSION [1] - 1:11 sessions [2] - 45:15, 45:22 set [13] - 62:14, 76:7, 76:8, 80:17, 80:22, 81:15, 81:17, 110:24, 111:1, 111:7, 120:3, 120:6, 120:21 setting [2] - 81:1, 124:6 seven [6] - 7:6, 8:5, 8:15, 8:25, 9:4, 19:10 several [6] - 53:19, 59:18, 86:17, 86:25, 97:20, 107:5 SHEA [2] - 1:21, 4:5 Shea [3] - 4:5, 4:7, 111:22 sheet [2] - 87:25, 91:15 sheets [1] - 101:25 Shirley [29] - 9:19, 12:12, 12:16, 13:3, 13:10, 15:13, 16:1, 16:16, 17:13, 18:4, 18:23, 19:4, 19:15, 19:18, 20:3, 20:22, 20:23, 21:4, 21:23, 21:24, 22:10, 22:13, 38:11, 63:19, 63:24, 64:6, 64:10, 65:3, 69:16 Shirley's [1] - 19:21 shock [4] - 52:11, 53:8, 53:12, 53:15 shocked [1] - 53:15 shoot [1] - 68:3 short [1] - 68:22 shorthand [1] - 2:7 shot [9] - 52:7, 52:9, 52:22, 54:3, 54:19, 69:7, 69:9, 71:1, 71:9 shots [5] - 53:19, 53:23, 54:17, 69:1, 69:2 show [8] - 19:22, 19:23, 20:11, 20:19, 52:20, 81:16, 84:2, 106:2 showed [9] - 14:12, 34:8, 44:15, 44:16, 44:19, 44:23, 45:1, 47:16, 53:19 showing [6] - 5:7, 26:11, 30:10, 46:3, 47:16, 123:24 shown [2] - 12:8, 65:8 siblings [1] - 17:20 sick [2] - 11:2, 124:25 side [1] - 78:24 sign [1] - 125:5 signature [1] - 26:21 signed [1] - 30:20 significance [4] 118:18, 119:21, 122:16, 123:15 signs [1] - 124:17 simpler [3] - 47:10, 67:12, 67:13 simply [2] - 107:21, 108:24 SIMPSON [4] - 1:20, 3:22, 63:3, 68:5 Simpson [1] - 3:22 single [1] - 9:12 SINNOTT [1] - 3:20 Sinnott [1] - 3:20 sister [1] - 12:17 sisters [1] - 12:18 sit [3] - 5:19, 5:20, 126:14 sits [1] - 71:21 sitting [2] - 46:14, 92:9 situation [3] - 107:8, 120:7, 126:7 six [2] - 22:1, 101:17 Six [1] - 88:19 size [1] - 119:7 slab [1] - 8:12 slipped [8] - 24:21, 24:24, 25:2, 27:12, 27:20, 29:8, 29:18, 33:25 Smokey [3] - 39:8, 39:9, 39:10 socialize [9] - 6:18, 6:22, 6:25, 7:8, 8:8, 8:18, 9:7, 9:15, 9:23 socializing [2] - 7:21, 7:24 society [1] - 76:13 Society [4] - 3:3, 76:17, 76:22, 77:14 SOCIETY [1] - 1:3 solemnly [1] - 72:12 solicit [1] - 94:4 someone [3] - 93:17, 96:12, 96:21 sometime [1] - 62:25 sometimes [5] 41:10, 65:13, 74:11, 111:20, 115:15 Sometimes [3] 13:17, 41:12, 121:5 somewhat [1] - 110:3 sons [2] - 48:19, 48:22 soon [1] - 67:13 Sorry [2] - 30:8, 77:2 sorry [15] - 34:16, 35:18, 36:23, 37:4, 37:5, 37:7, 38:5, 59:1, 60:7, 68:17, 75:11, 75:13, 79:11, 83:16, 120:16 sort [3] - 80:22, 93:7, 93:17 space [1] - 69:17 speaking [1] - 60:11 specialty [2] - 39:1, 73:8 species [5] - 74:16, 76:20, 76:24, 88:17, 125:13 specific [2] - 101:24, 104:23 speculation [1] 33:19 spend [2] - 43:8, 124:2 spent [5] - 9:11, 63:22, 74:3, 74:7, 91:9 spoliation [1] - 112:9 spring [2] - 74:5, 102:17 sprinkler [1] - 64:22 square [1] - 6:17 SSP [1] - 70:14 staff [1] - 21:6 stand [5] - 90:1, 95:22, 109:20, 113:6, 114:23 standard [7] - 91:19, 92:13, 93:19, 93:22, 94:22, 95:1, 96:17 standing [1] - 110:18 standpoint [1] - 81:7 start [2] - 41:15, 126:20 starting [1] - 107:12 state [9] - 27:3, 31:4, 55:12, 57:7, 72:20, 81:5, 118:1, 122:20, 122:22 statement [19] - 6:24, 26:6, 26:16, 26:23, 27:3, 27:10, 27:23, 28:8, 28:24, 29:13, 29:20, 29:23, 30:4, 30:15, 30:17, 31:16, 31:21, 98:24, 99:1 statements [11] - 33:3, 33:10, 33:13, 33:16, 33:22, 47:9, 54:14, 55:1, 55:5 Jacqueline Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 15 STATES [2] - 1:1, 1:12 states [2] - 32:15, 67:21 Station [1] - 73:4 stationary [1] - 57:17 statistical [2] - 96:24, 106:24 stayed [5] - 49:3, 117:23, 119:1, 119:10, 119:14 step [4] - 69:23, 71:25, 109:15, 109:18 stepped [3] - 49:12, 51:6, 51:8 steps [3] - 40:18, 45:10 stereopothy [1] 123:21 stereotypic [13] 89:12, 121:3, 121:16, 122:7, 122:17, 123:1, 123:10, 123:18, 123:20, 123:21, 124:19, 125:8, 125:13 stereotypical [1] 124:23 still [13] - 41:5, 47:19, 55:12, 62:16, 64:17, 104:11, 109:23, 112:23, 115:11, 115:13, 115:14, 115:22, 118:25 stimulant [1] - 71:3 stimulate [1] - 71:10 stimulates [1] - 71:4 stint [1] - 58:20 stitches [1] - 51:13 stock [1] - 93:4 stomped [2] - 48:12, 48:14 stop [2] - 124:19 stops [1] - 125:13 straight [1] - 111:20 strategies [1] - 102:22 STRAUSS [1] - 4:8 Strauss [2] - 4:8, 4:10 stress [8] - 74:12, 78:7, 119:15, 119:17, 119:19, 124:18, 124:23 stressed [1] - 80:22 stressful [1] - 78:7 strike [2] - 66:17, 123:15 string [1] - 60:16 structure [1] - 80:22 student [1] - 121:11 Student [1] - 101:20 Students [1] - 121:9 students [3] - 121:10, 121:20, 124:7 studied [2] - 106:5, 120:3 studies [36] - 74:13, 78:5, 79:19, 79:24, 79:25, 80:1, 80:6, 80:11, 80:19, 80:24, 81:4, 81:13, 81:14, 81:20, 82:2, 82:20, 99:16, 100:3, 102:4, 102:5, 102:13, 106:18, 107:1, 107:5, 107:6, 116:4, 116:7, 116:9, 117:6, 117:12, 122:25, 123:8, 124:1, 124:5 study [32] - 73:10, 73:17, 74:16, 80:16, 86:13, 86:16, 86:23, 87:1, 87:6, 97:6, 101:18, 102:2, 102:7, 102:18, 102:21, 103:16, 107:2, 107:3, 116:12, 118:5, 118:6, 118:8, 119:12, 120:3, 120:4, 120:6, 120:19, 120:23, 121:15, 123:3, 124:10, 124:12 studying [8] - 73:12, 73:14, 73:23, 80:6, 87:22, 117:13, 117:19, 117:21 subject [7] - 15:7, 15:10, 60:25, 61:10, 80:5, 100:2, 115:23 Subject [1] - 116:20 subjective [1] - 125:23 submissive [2] 41:20, 41:22 submit [1] - 101:13 submits [2] - 96:12, 96:21 submitted [11] - 75:6, 77:10, 87:20, 91:16, 93:16, 93:23, 97:20, 97:24, 99:11, 100:22, 103:4 submitting [3] - 77:21, 96:8, 96:16 suggest [1] - 102:24 suggested [1] - 110:9 Suite [1] - 1:17 Sullivan [2] - 11:16, 110:16 SULLIVAN [4] - 1:11, 2:2, 128:2, 128:5 Sullivan's [1] - 91:18 summer [2] - 102:1, 102:23 sun [1] - 118:13 Sundara [1] - 38:13 supplement [1] 30:25 supported [2] - 98:8, 98:10 survival [1] - 67:14 Susan [5] - 7:4, 51:23, 55:22, 58:18, 59:5 suspected [1] - 89:17 sustaining [2] - 32:15, 32:24 swaying [1] - 101:24 swear [1] - 72:12 swim [1] - 10:17 swimming [2] - 15:4, 16:4 switched [1] - 115:16 sworn [3] - 4:13, 26:23, 30:22 SWORN [2] - 4:17, 72:18 systems [2] - 64:22, 115:15 T table [1] - 5:19 talks [1] - 6:13 tame [2] - 39:15, 39:17 TANYA [1] - 1:15 Tanya [1] - 3:12 tape [4] - 47:19, 105:11, 109:2, 121:24 taped [14] - 45:14, 100:10, 100:12, 101:8, 101:11, 103:23, 104:1, 104:17, 105:8, 105:14, 105:20, 106:3, 115:5, 115:7 Taped [1] - 115:7 tapes [19] - 47:17, 101:19, 102:3, 102:15, 102:16, 105:3, 105:24, 109:23, 112:21, 112:23, 112:25, 113:14, 114:25, 115:11, 115:14, 115:19, 115:20, 115:23, 116:11 taping [3] - 102:4, 102:24, 115:9 TB [13] - 22:22, 22:24, 55:16, 56:9, 56:10, 56:25, 57:1, 57:4, 57:10, 64:5, 64:11, 64:14, 65:2 teach [3] - 43:15, 74:2, 74:4 teaching [3] - 45:15, 74:3, 115:14 tech [1] - 3:20 Tech [1] - 73:2 technically [1] - 67:6 temperature [13] 80:9, 117:14, 117:21, 117:22, 118:8, 118:9, 118:10, 118:11, 118:23, 119:1, 119:2, 119:5, 119:6 Temperatures [1] 118:3 temperatures [2] 118:12, 119:9 Ten [1] - 57:23 ten [1] - 63:11 tender [1] - 89:11 term [7] - 39:25, 40:6, 40:7, 48:16, 73:18, 77:17 terms [2] - 107:1, 113:25 test [7] - 56:9, 56:10, 56:25, 57:4, 80:13, 80:18, 80:23 tested [5] - 22:13, 22:22, 55:16, 57:9, 64:5 testified [17] - 4:22, 7:17, 8:2, 8:3, 8:11, 8:14, 9:1, 9:2, 9:10, 9:11, 9:18, 10:1, 32:3, 34:15, 61:7, 98:23, 112:14 testify [7] - 56:21, 111:14, 113:7, 114:3, 114:6, 114:10, 116:21 testifying [3] - 33:5, 90:14, 92:16 testimony [52] - 4:23, 5:3, 7:19, 8:6, 8:12, 9:5, 9:13, 9:21, 11:18, 22:21, 32:5, 34:10, 34:17, 35:2, 36:2, 36:16, 38:15, 40:1, 52:20, 72:3, 72:13, 89:7, 89:25, 90:4, 90:5, 90:18, 90:20, 90:21, 90:24, 91:5, 91:9, 91:13, 91:19, 91:24, 94:24, 97:9, 97:15, 100:21, 105:15, 106:14, 107:19, 107:24, 113:2, 113:6, 113:13, 113:17, 114:8, 114:12, 114:14, 126:14, 126:15 testing [5] - 80:24, 106:15, 108:6, 116:5, 116:9 Texas [7] - 16:17, 73:4, 73:25, 90:9, 90:10, 90:11 THE [209] - 1:1, 1:3, 1:11, 3:9, 3:14, 3:19, 4:1, 4:4, 4:7, 4:10, 4:12, 4:13, 4:14, 4:15, 4:17, 5:18, 5:22, 5:24, 10:21, 10:22, 16:9, 16:11, 28:24, 29:1, 33:6, 33:8, 33:20, 37:7, 46:4, 46:5, 46:6, 46:7, 46:9, 46:11, 46:12, 46:14, 46:16, 46:17, 46:18, 46:19, 46:25, 47:3, 47:6, 47:8, 47:11, 47:12, 47:14, 54:9, 54:12, 54:17, 54:24, 55:3, 55:5, 55:8, 56:3, 56:5, 56:7, 56:8, 56:11, 56:12, 56:13, 56:16, 56:18, 63:4, 63:8, 63:13, 67:1, 67:2, 67:8, 67:11, 67:16, 67:19, 69:13, 69:22, 70:1, 70:3, 70:4, 70:5, 70:7, 70:8, 70:10, 70:12, 70:14, 70:16, 70:17, 70:21, 71:12, 71:13, 71:14, 71:16, 71:19, 71:23, 71:25, 72:1, 72:2, 72:9, 72:16, 72:17, 72:18, 74:20, 74:24, 79:13, 79:15, 82:9, 82:11, 83:2, 83:6, 83:8, 83:10, 83:16, 83:20, 83:22, 84:2, 84:4, 84:7, 84:21, 84:24, 85:14, 85:16, 86:5, 86:8, 87:9, 87:14, 88:2, 88:4, 89:7, 89:9, 89:14, 89:16, 89:23, 90:2, 90:5, 90:6, 90:7, 90:9, 90:10, 90:12, 90:13, 90:16, Jacqueline Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 16 90:17, 90:19, 90:20, 90:21, 90:23, 90:25, 91:1, 91:2, 92:1, 92:16, 92:19, 100:17, 100:19, 107:16, 108:13, 108:21, 109:1, 109:8, 109:15, 109:18, 109:22, 110:1, 110:18, 110:21, 111:1, 111:4, 111:8, 111:18, 111:21, 112:1, 112:6, 112:23, 113:10, 113:19, 114:3, 114:16, 114:24, 115:2, 115:3, 115:4, 115:5, 115:7, 115:11, 115:13, 115:19, 115:21, 115:22, 115:23, 115:25, 116:17, 116:20, 116:25, 117:2, 124:22, 124:25, 125:5, 125:7, 125:16, 125:17, 125:19, 125:20, 125:21, 125:23, 126:3, 126:5, 126:12, 126:17, 126:18, 126:20, 126:22 theirs [1] - 126:7 theme [4] - 57:15, 58:7, 58:16, 58:22 themself [1] - 3:5 themselves [2] 42:15, 123:23 THEODORE [2] 72:18, 127:7 Theodore [1] - 72:21 they've [1] - 122:23 thinking [1] - 104:8 Thinking [1] - 104:10 third [1] - 27:12 thirty [2] - 6:16, 47:13 Thirty [3] - 73:24, 74:4, 81:10 Thirty-five [3] - 73:24, 74:4, 81:10 thorough [1] - 34:17 thousands [1] - 46:22 threatening [1] 38:20 three [20] - 7:5, 8:4, 8:15, 9:4, 10:10, 11:16, 19:18, 20:17, 25:6, 50:9, 64:3, 64:4, 67:24, 68:3, 90:14, 91:8, 92:5, 109:8, 109:14, 124:4 Three [1] - 10:13 three-and-a-half [1] 50:9 thriving [1] - 125:6 throougly [1] - 67:7 throughout [1] - 12:25 throwing [2] - 121:4, 122:14 thrown [3] - 101:8, 101:9, 105:25 Thursday [1] - 4:22 tie [5] - 41:23, 44:12, 46:22, 68:20, 68:22 tied [4] - 24:14, 29:21, 42:12, 45:2 tigers [6] - 75:19, 75:20, 102:5, 102:7, 102:13, 123:5 timeline [1] - 104:12 timers [3] - 40:1, 40:3, 40:7 timing [1] - 121:17 tip [1] - 119:7 title [1] - 81:23 TO [1] - 1:3 Toby [1] - 49:20 Todd [1] - 61:16 together [1] - 69:17 tolerate [1] - 117:24 Tom [7] - 59:11, 61:2, 61:10, 61:17, 62:10, 62:13, 62:15 took [6] - 7:2, 17:18, 20:6, 23:3, 99:16, 100:7 tools [2] - 53:18 top [3] - 32:20, 60:16, 82:16 topic [4] - 65:5, 68:13, 70:24, 91:25 touch [2] - 67:4, 67:7 touching [1] - 123:22 toward [1] - 41:20 towards [2] - 48:25, 62:7 toys [2] - 27:13, 29:4 trade [1] - 96:12 traditional [2] - 78:6, 108:1 traditionally [1] 80:16 trailer [1] - 124:9 trails [1] - 103:6 train [7] - 21:11, 27:25, 39:18, 40:22, 45:6, 99:16, 124:15 trained [8] - 14:16, 34:3, 34:13, 47:18, 48:22, 50:16, 50:19, 68:7 trainers [2] - 40:8, 98:12 training [38] - 23:20, 23:23, 24:7, 24:10, 24:17, 28:6, 28:7, 28:9, 28:12, 28:15, 29:18, 29:19, 31:22, 31:25, 32:4, 32:17, 32:25, 39:1, 39:7, 39:21, 40:15, 40:18, 41:15, 43:14, 43:17, 43:20, 43:22, 44:9, 45:15, 45:22, 46:13, 47:2, 47:6, 47:17, 47:19, 66:3, 121:22 trans [2] - 122:20, 122:22 trans-like [2] - 122:20, 122:22 transcript [2] - 2:7, 128:3 TRANSCRIPT [1] 1:11 transcription [1] - 2:7 transport [12] - 86:14, 86:19, 98:3, 99:22, 100:3, 117:13, 118:21, 120:2, 120:4, 120:5, 121:15, 126:9 transportation [15] 80:11, 80:12, 80:20, 87:23, 89:12, 116:12, 117:6, 118:15, 118:16, 119:9, 119:16, 121:10, 122:8, 124:1, 124:15 transported [4] 80:21, 117:8, 118:7, 119:18 Travel [1] - 89:2 travel [3] - 65:3, 65:4, 87:1 traveling [4] - 62:12, 88:13, 124:8, 125:24 travesty [1] - 68:4 treat [1] - 54:22 treated [4] - 22:16, 22:24, 64:8, 64:11 tremendous [2] 76:16, 122:9 trial [5] - 91:9, 108:23, 110:11, 112:10, 114:18 TRIAL [1] - 1:11 trick [7] - 13:15, 13:24, 14:9, 14:21, 14:25, 34:4, 34:13 tricks [5] - 13:22, 14:14, 21:12, 27:25, 40:22 tried [2] - 38:16, 80:7 trip [3] - 120:14, 122:11 trouble [5] - 24:22, 24:25, 25:2, 25:16, 25:21 Troy [1] - 17:8 truck [5] - 53:9, 53:13, 69:7, 117:8, 120:8 trucks [1] - 126:1 true [6] - 36:7, 43:20, 45:14, 47:21, 47:24, 81:1 True [1] - 9:17 trunk [8] - 20:7, 24:12, 24:13, 24:14, 24:16, 29:21, 31:18, 45:2 truth [3] - 72:13, 72:14 truthfully [1] - 94:11 try [5] - 80:8, 81:1, 114:2, 118:13, 120:9 trying [6] - 38:19, 63:13, 74:13, 91:17, 125:21, 125:22 tub [22] - 21:11, 21:16, 21:18, 23:17, 23:20, 23:23, 24:1, 24:4, 24:8, 24:11, 24:19, 24:22, 24:25, 25:17, 25:22, 27:25, 28:6, 31:23, 31:24, 32:4, 32:25, 66:6 tuberculosis [2] 22:14, 22:16 turn [2] - 32:7, 64:25 turns [1] - 95:20 twenty [4] - 47:13, 59:1, 77:18, 94:13 Twenty [1] - 19:9 Twenty-one [1] - 19:9 twice [1] - 10:3 Two [2] - 75:8, 97:24 two [38] - 5:17, 6:13, 7:4, 8:4, 9:3, 12:12, 12:15, 12:16, 24:19, 33:2, 33:10, 33:16, 41:7, 41:12, 42:4, 42:7, 42:9, 42:22, 43:3, 54:14, 55:1, 61:14, 67:20, 68:23, 75:5, 75:13, 79:5, 90:14, 93:9, 94:23, 95:4, 98:2, 107:22, 113:10, 120:10, 120:22, 121:20, 124:4 two-and-a-half [1] 12:15 tying [4] - 24:11, 24:16, 41:19, 46:14 type [6] - 66:3, 74:9, 74:12, 74:16, 123:11, 125:2 types [2] - 106:17, 123:19 typical [1] - 80:18 typos [1] - 96:13 U U.S [2] - 2:3, 86:14 UK [1] - 88:14 UK's [1] - 88:11 Ultimately [1] - 108:22 Um-hmm [2] - 18:22, 60:18 unaware [1] - 56:13 under [15] - 8:11, 12:1, 15:7, 19:15, 25:11, 27:3, 55:12, 57:7, 63:19, 81:17, 96:17, 97:3, 108:9, 124:18, 124:23 undergoing [1] - 66:3 undergraduate [1] 74:5 underlies [1] - 96:18 underlying [4] - 97:12, 108:2, 113:8, 114:11 understood [4] 108:10, 110:4, 110:6, 110:13 Unit [8] - 16:24, 17:1, 48:5, 52:1, 58:25, 59:4, 59:6, 59:15 UNITED [2] - 1:1, 1:12 units [3] - 87:5, 124:10, 124:12 University [2] - 73:1, 73:4 unless [1] - 113:8 unreliable [1] - 115:15 unsworn [2] - 33:10, 33:16 up [42] - 11:1, 13:18, 23:20, 23:23, 24:19, 24:22, 24:25, 25:17, 25:21, 28:6, 29:11, 31:22, 31:24, 32:4, 41:19, 41:23, 42:12, 44:12, 46:14, 46:22, 53:13, 61:18, 61:19, 61:24, 65:22, 68:20, 68:22, 75:11, 76:7, 76:8, 80:17, 80:22, Jacqueline Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter 17 81:15, 82:23, 92:4, 99:15, 103:8, 110:18, 120:3, 120:6, 120:21, 124:6 updates [1] - 75:4 upper [1] - 120:8 ups [1] - 60:1 usable [1] - 39:18 USDA [51] - 15:7, 15:10, 26:3, 26:6, 26:16, 27:24, 28:9, 28:19, 29:3, 29:8, 29:13, 29:20, 30:1, 30:4, 30:15, 30:25, 31:11, 31:17, 31:21, 32:15, 33:11, 33:16, 33:23, 33:25, 34:15, 34:19, 34:22, 35:7, 35:8, 36:4, 54:15, 55:1, 66:8, 66:11, 78:15, 78:18, 78:19, 80:3, 86:13, 87:7, 87:20, 88:12, 99:25, 101:18, 102:2, 102:5, 102:12, 106:2, 115:16, 116:12, 124:1 USDAs [1] - 98:4 useful [1] - 115:13 usual [2] - 91:12, 97:11 uthenics [2] - 73:17, 74:1 utilized [1] - 115:1 V vaguely [1] - 79:12 Vaguely [1] - 59:12 validity [2] - 121:23 value [5] - 67:13, 67:14, 67:17, 67:21 Vargus [1] - 86:24 variation [2] - 102:18, 122:3 varied [1] - 122:10 varies [1] - 68:24 various [1] - 60:11 veal [3] - 78:5, 78:7, 78:13 Veer [1] - 77:15 vehicle [2] - 117:10, 118:10 vehicles [4] - 118:7, 118:21, 119:25, 120:1 vermin [1] - 68:2 version [1] - 31:16 versus [3] - 3:4, 107:2, 113:11 veterinarian [1] 106:8 veterinary [1] - 14:5 VHS [8] - 101:18, 102:3, 102:19, 115:9, 115:14, 115:20, 115:21, 115:22 vice [2] - 60:10, 60:22 Vice [1] - 60:23 Video [3] - 12:11, 19:25, 20:21 video [6] - 13:25, 34:7, 45:14, 45:17, 45:24, 65:8 video-taped [1] 45:14 videos [5] - 12:8, 47:17, 121:8, 121:11, 121:14 videotape [4] - 19:21, 34:7, 45:22, 103:15 videotapes [22] 44:15, 44:19, 44:23, 45:1, 45:5, 45:9, 99:17, 99:19, 100:6, 100:9, 100:11, 100:22, 101:7, 102:2, 102:14, 102:23, 102:25, 103:8, 104:1, 104:25, 107:25, 121:19 videotaping [1] 102:20 view [2] - 67:25, 96:8 views [1] - 94:24 villages [1] - 68:2 violation [1] - 32:11 Virginia [1] - 73:2 visited [1] - 53:17 voir [2] - 89:14, 112:16 Voir [1] - 127:9 VOIR [2] - 89:19, 116:2 W Wait [1] - 110:19 wait [2] - 112:2 waiting [2] - 11:17, 90:1 walk [1] - 126:10 walking [2] - 31:5, 118:24 Wankel [1] - 78:3 warm [2] - 46:20, 118:25 Washington [4] - 1:6, 1:17, 1:22, 2:4 watched [1] - 122:6 watching [1] - 107:7 water [14] - 10:3, 10:8, 10:10, 10:14, 10:21, 10:22, 11:5, 11:8, 11:11, 11:23, 12:1, 64:19, 64:21, 123:12 watered [1] - 64:20 watering [2] - 14:3, 14:19 weaned [2] - 40:20, 41:15 wearing [3] - 23:8, 56:14, 56:22 weather [5] - 64:24, 64:25, 65:1, 118:25, 119:2 weaving [5] - 121:3, 123:20, 125:3, 125:5, 125:8 Weaving [1] - 123:20 week [16] - 7:17, 10:1, 11:15, 14:13, 34:8, 34:15, 36:14, 38:15, 39:24, 44:16, 47:17, 56:21, 61:8, 61:17, 61:19, 68:3 weeks [2] - 44:20, 124:4 weight [8] - 108:14, 108:18, 108:21, 113:1, 113:11, 114:5, 114:9, 114:14 welfare [7] - 74:12, 74:14, 74:15, 78:24, 89:13, 122:15, 122:21 Welfare [2] - 15:8, 75:19 whole [1] - 72:14 wide [2] - 76:16, 76:24 wife [9] - 12:25, 23:19, 28:5, 29:11, 29:21, 31:18, 31:22, 45:1, 65:24 wild [13] - 39:12, 39:15, 39:22, 40:14, 42:25, 66:22, 67:2, 67:3, 67:6, 67:8, 67:9, 106:5, 125:25 Williams [3] - 121:11, 121:18, 122:1 willingly [1] - 65:19 Williston [1] - 57:6 Winders [1] - 3:18 WINDERS [3] - 1:15, 3:17, 110:17 winters [1] - 103:7 wish [1] - 83:6 wishes [2] - 44:6, 44:21 withdrawn [1] 110:22 witness [11] - 71:19, 72:10, 78:23, 88:20, 105:18, 107:16, 109:11, 109:15, 111:13, 111:22, 116:21 Witness [2] - 109:20, 114:23 WITNESS [58] - 4:12, 4:14, 4:17, 10:22, 16:11, 29:1, 46:5, 46:7, 46:11, 46:14, 46:17, 46:19, 47:3, 47:8, 47:12, 56:5, 56:8, 56:12, 56:16, 67:2, 67:11, 67:19, 70:1, 70:4, 70:7, 70:10, 70:14, 70:17, 71:13, 72:1, 72:17, 72:18, 89:9, 90:2, 90:6, 90:9, 90:12, 90:16, 90:19, 90:21, 90:25, 91:2, 92:19, 100:19, 115:2, 115:4, 115:7, 115:13, 115:21, 115:23, 124:25, 125:7, 125:17, 125:20, 125:23, 126:5, 126:17, 126:22 WITNESSES [1] 127:2 Woodcock [3] - 39:5, 58:22, 59:5 word [8] - 31:8, 31:10, 31:14, 39:17, 39:21, 40:13, 100:13, 104:4 words [1] - 67:20 work,Dr [1] - 73:3 World [2] - 57:12, 57:15 world [2] - 46:17, 46:23 worry [1] - 100:14 Worth [1] - 53:11 writing [1] - 89:2 year [3] - 49:21, 74:6, 101:2 yearly [1] - 78:11 years [19] - 7:18, 15:22, 18:7, 18:13, 41:7, 42:7, 47:13, 47:21, 47:25, 48:20, 57:22, 57:23, 59:18, 73:24, 77:16, 77:18, 81:10, 89:23, 98:19 yes-or-no [1] - 81:2 young [13] - 8:3, 9:2, 12:16, 13:6, 27:15, 29:6, 39:2, 39:15, 40:15, 42:4, 43:14, 66:22, 68:6 younger [2] - 41:10, 41:12 yourself [1] - 76:9 Z Zina [4] - 7:4, 51:23, 55:23, 58:20 Zoo [5] - 49:6, 53:12, 94:14, 94:21, 95:2 Zooological [1] 98:11 Y yard [3] - 29:10, 31:5, 66:2 yards [1] - 66:19 Year [1] - 78:12 Jacqueline Sullivan, RPR Official Court Reporter