(VIDEO DEPO 0F TERRY BRANSTAD) IN THE IOWA DISTRICT COURT FOR POLK COUNTY CHRISTOPHER J, GODFREY, Plaintiff, vs. STATE OF TERRY BRANSTAD, Governor of the State of Iowa, individually and in his official Capacity; KIMBERLY REYNOLDS, _Lieutenant Governor of _the State of Iowa, individually and in her official capacity; JEFFREY BOEYINK, Chief of Staff to the Governor of the State of Iowa, individually and in his official capacity; BRENNA FINDLEY, Legal Counsel to the Governor of the State of Zowa, individually and in her official capacity; TIMOTHY ALBRECHT, Communications Director to the Severnor of the State of Iowa, individually and in his official capacity; and TERESA WAHLERT, Director, Iowa Workforce Development, individually and in her official capacity, Defendants. Law No. LACL124195 VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF TERRY BRANSTAD THE VEDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF TERRY BRANSTAD, 1 taken before Chris A. Quinlin, Certified Shorthand Reporter and Notary Public of the State of Iowa, November 26, 2014, Suite 200, Des Moines, HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 commencing at 9:19 at 1820 NW 118th Street, Eowa. (VIDEO 9390 OF TERRY BRANSTAHPlaintiff by: Defendants by: State of Iowa by: Videographer: Also present: ROXANNE BARTON CONLIN Attorney at Law ROXANNE ASSOCIATES 319 Seventh Street Suite 600 Des Moines, IA 50309 {515) 283*1311 GEORGE A. ANDREW H. DOANE Attorneys at Law LAW GROUP 1820 NW 118th Street Suite 200 Des Moines, IA 50325 (515) 225*2600 JEFFREY c. PETERZALEK Assistant Attorney General 1305 East Walnut Street Second Floor Des Moines, IA-50319 (515) 281~4213 AMY COOPER ACHRISTOPHER J. GODFREY BRENNA FINDLEY COURT REQORTERS, LTD. (515) 288~4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) Gq EEQEE Examination by: Page Ms. Conlin 6 Exhibit Marked 211w??sm_ 75 255 76 256 HONEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288W4910 Exhibit '(VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) I Continued Marked 259 261 281 287 290 291 293 296 297 299 399 417 421' 423 433 HUNEYHVAUGHN LTD. (515) 238*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAB) 5 PROCEEDINGS THE VIDEOGRAPHER: On the record beginning the videotaped deposition of Governor Terry Branstad, requested by the plaintiff in the matter of Christopher J. Godfrey, Plaintiff, versus State of Iowa, Terry Branstad, et al., ?Defendants, in the Iowa District Court for Polk County, Case Number LACL124195. Today's date is Nove?ber 26th, 2014, and the approximate time is 9:19 a.m. This depositioh is being held in the offices of LaMaroa Landry, 1820 Northwest 118th Street, Suite 210, Clive, Iowa. My name is Amy Cooper, certified legai videographer, of Fidelity Video Services, Incorporated, West Des Moines, Iowa. Counsel will please idehtify themselves for the record. MS. CONLIN: Roxanne Conlin on behalf of the plaintiff. MR. George LaMaroa on behalf of the defendants. I Rndrew Doane on behalf of the defendants. MR. PETERZALEK: Jeff Peterzalek HUNEYMVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 DEPO 0F TERRY BRANSTAD) I . 5 with the attorney generai's office on behalf of the State of Iowa. I THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The oath will now be administered by Chris-Quinlin, certified shorthand reporter, of HuneymVaughn Coert Reporters, Des Moinee, Iowa. TERRY-BRANSTAD, called as a witness,_having been first duly 'sworn, testified as follows: DIRECT EXRMINATEON BY MS. CONLIN: 9.. Tell us your name, please. A. My name is $erry Branstad. Q. And you.iive at Terrace Hill? A. 'Yes. Q. You hesitated.. Do you not live at Terrace Bill? A. Well, I live at Terrace Hill. That is the official residence of the governor. And I have lived there since I was elected as governor again and we and took office in 2011. Q. Okay. Your first term of service was 1983 to 1998; correct? Well, actually, January of '99. So it's mm you serve until the new governor is HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288W4910 (vrsao DEPO 0F TERRY BRANSTAD) 7 inaugurated. So it was from January of 1983 to January 1999. Q. All right. And then you went And tell me what you did in the interim period between 1999 and 20 2011. A. For a brief ?m For a brief period of time I was an adjunct professor at the University of Iowa on the Henry Tippie College of Business teaching readership classes for three semesters. -I then ?m I went to work for Robert W. Baird, passed the Series 7 securities exam, and was a financial advisor for three years with Robert W. Baird. During that time I also served on some "w some boards for different oompanies. I think you remember deposing me because I was on the board of MidAmerioan Energy at the time it was sold to Berkshire Hathaway. That was one of the companies that I served on the board of during that time. And Me And then, of course, I was- on the board olees Moines University, and I was chosen to be the president of Des Moines University. And I served six years and three HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO 0F TERRY BRANSTAD) 8 months_as the president of Des Moines University. And then at the end of October 2009 I retired as the president of Des Moines University to explore running for governor again. I?d been recruited by a number of people who felt that the state was going the Wrong direction and we needed experienced ieadership to get the stete back on track. And I accepted that call and made the decision and announced in January of 2020 to run for governor again and spelled out my my goals and my Vision for the future of the state. Q. All right. And in 2010 you were elected, and then you were elected again in 2014; correct? A. Correct. Q. Have you had an opportunity to visit with your attorney prior to this depOsition? A. Yes. Q. How long a period of time did you spend with your attorneys? A. We spent significant time. I think several hours._m Q. All right. Did you have enough time to HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO 0F TERRY I 9 visit with him or them? A. Yes. And "4 And they have always been accessible and available for any consultation or questions that I might have over the time since this.iawsuit has been filed and they've been retained as our attorneys. Are there any factors which would make it difficult for you to focus on the questions aad provide accurate answers today? No. Q. Are you taking_any kinds of _Medications? A. No. Q. All right. Well, do you have mm are you taking any medications like Carbidopa/Levodopa, Sinemet, Benzodiazepines? Anything like that? I A. Well, I don't even know what those things are. Q. Okay. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*49l0 (VIDEO 0390 OF TERRY newsman) 10 A. But no, I'm not taking any of the ones that you mentioned. No antianxiety medication? A. No. Q. Rside from the deposition that I took of you several years ago, have you had your deposition taken before? A, I have. -Q. On how many occasions? A. On a few occasions. I would say less than half a dozen. Q. Do you me Aside from the MidAmerican Energy one, do you remember any of the others? A. I do remember one involving a Situation with an ethanol plant which was contemplated to be built in the state of that eventually Was not built. Q. What was.your role'in that case? IA. Well, it was mm Actually, I was dismisSed as a party to that case after the deposition. But I?ve been a strong advocate for renewable fuels, and I served as a public member of the American Institute of Certified Public Accountants, AICPAHUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. '(515) 288?4910 (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY BRANSTAD) 11 council meeting of the American Institute of Certified Public Accountants who told me of his interest in building an ethanol plant in the state of And, of course, Iowa has more ethanol plants than.any other state, and so told them that I was very enthusiastic about ethanol and the opportunity that it had. And so I had basically indicated to him that I would be willing to be an advisor or whatever. And And the lawsuit involved people that had invested with him that I had no knowledge of. Q. All right. Any others that you remember? A. No. Q. All right. A. None in We in recent times. You knOw, going way back to when I practiced law and I have mm I'm a recovering lawyer. I practiced law from 1974 to 1982. So I think there were some depositions maybe during that period of time. And I even took some depositionsdeposition in that HUNEYMVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 12 period of time? A. I don't recall. I do recall having -taken some depositions. I even recall a case involying depositions that went all the way to the Court of Appeals, which we wete successful. Eyen though we'd lost the mm the case in district court, we were successful on appeal. But that mm it had to do We that was a criminal case. Q. Okay. Are you currently a licensed attorney? A. No. I have not been mm When I left the governor?s office, I had appointed a considerable number of judges, and I made the conscious decision not to go back into law practice because I thought it would be a very difficult, uncomfortable situation for judges if one of the attorneys that was trying a case had actually appointed that judge. So I made the decision and have not been involved in the law practice since I was elected governor and sold my interest in the law practice to Richard Schwarm in 1982 at the end-0f the zearowm Q. so you do not currently have a license COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF essay BRANSTAB) 13 to practice law? A. I do not. Q. All right; A. And have not since '82. Q. Have you had an opportunity to review any of the depositions that haVe been taken in this case? A. No. Q. Not Mr. Godfrey?s deposition or A. No. Q. m" Ms. Wahlert's or anyone else? A. No. Q. Has anyone provided.you with a summary of those depositions? A. No. Q. For the record, I'd like to remind you of the rules that we follow. One is you need to answer questions orally, which you're very good at doing. I And two is that you need to wait until 1 finish my question before you begin your answer. I I And three is be sure that you understand my question before you try to answer HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 (VIDEO DEPO 0F TERRY BRANSTAD) - 14 it. will you do all those things? A. Yes. Q. Have you had-an opportunity to review any of the documents? A. I have reviewed the interrogatory, my interrogatory. Q. Just one? A. well, end live reviewed some other documents with regard to my responsibilities under the Code of Iowa. Q. The The law.that governs that responsibility? Is that whet you're talking about A. 'Yes. Q. mm or something else? A. The law that.governs the responsibility with regard.to setting the salary of the commissioner of workers' compensation. Q. Anything else? Any other documents? A. Those are the primary documents that I have haye reviewed. Q. Nothing else? A. Not that I can think of. Q. All right._ Aside from your attorneys, HUNEY-VAHGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288~4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY 15 have you talked with anyone else about this deposition? A. No. Q. Do you use emmail? A. I do not. Q. Do you have ewmail addresses? A. I do not. Q. Do you use Twitter? A. I do not, but my my staff does. Q. Okay. Do WM But you do not personally use Twitter. Is that a correct understanding? A. I do not. I have a communications director who does that on on behalf of the governor's office. Do you have a smartphone? A. I do not. Q. Do you use texting or instant messaging of any kind? A. I do not. Q. Do you have a Facebook account? A. I do not. Q. Do you use any kind of social media? A. I do not. Q- Okay. Do you know whether or not there are eumail addresses which receive e?mails for HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 10_ (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 15 you or from which you can send ewmails? A. I do not have an ewmail, and I do not send e?mails. There are members of my staff and my wife that have e+mails. Q. All right. Do you Are there emmeil _addresses that receive ewmail for you? Do you understand what I'm 7asking? A. Well, the governor's office has an e~meil address. Right. Right. A. And it is received by my staff. Q. De Do you ever direct your staff to send e?meils? NO. Q. All right. Each I?m.assuming, is this correct, Governor,-that each of yoer staff members has his or her own evmail'address? A3 .To the best of my knowledge, they do. Q. All right. When you were the president of Des Moines University, did ycu use ewmsil? A. res. Q. Okay. And And did yod have your Den evmail address? I A. Yes; HUNEYHVAUGBN LTD. (515) 288~4910 (VIDEO 921190 or TERRY smsram 17 9.. And you received ewmail at that address, and you also sent e?mail from that address? A. Yes. Q. Why did you decide not to have an e?mail address as governor of the state 0f Iowa? A. Well, I consulted with Brenna Findley on that issue and felt that in light of what had happened previously with other goveroors, that it would probably not be a wise thing, because somebody might send me an emmail that says something derogatory or inflammatory, and I didn?t want that attributed to me. Q. All right. So it was on advice of Counsel that you decided not to have any kind of an ewmail presence? A. Yes. Q. All right. All All of the ewmails that are sent to your office, do they do they all go through state servers, or do you know? A. I do not know. Q. Do you know whether or not your office or members of your staff use servers that are not on the state communications system? A. I do not know. COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY eaansmao) - 18 Q. Do you know whether or not_the electronic communication devices used by the governor's office comply with all document retention policies of the state of Iowa? A. Well, I don't of my own personal knowledge. l_do know that we try very-carefully to abide by all the laws and rules that the state of Iowa has. Q. Who would know about the communiCation electronic communication 'policies of the governor's office?. A. I would think the communications director. Q. That would be now? - Well, that would be Jimmy Centers. Q. 'Is he an IT.person as well? A. He is very knowledgeable in social_ media, as was his predecessor Tim Albrecht. And mm And frankly, it's one of the reasons why I hired them, because they're of a younger generation and are very effective at social communication and know how to use Facebook and Twitter and all the means_of communications that are so important to communicate in this day and age. Rmsoamsas, LTD. - (515) 288~4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY 3-9 Q. Do you have an IT staff person of any kind? A. We have We have a person that is in Charge of that for the'etate of Iowa, and he's got a very unusual name. and he's done a great job. He came from the west. I think from Wyoming or out in that area. And he 13 basically the person that?s in charge of IT for the state of Iowa. Q. Do mm Do you communicate with him yourself? A. I've had meetings with him. Primarily it's been my staff, but I have met with mm with him on w? on occasion. Q. Do you want to take a shot at his name? A. Well, Q. If can probably find it out if you can't remember it or if you can't pronounce it. A. I think Well, maybe Brenna can help me. I don't know if Q. At At a break perhaps. A. Yeahcan get you his name. Q. Okay. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT LTD. (515) 288-4910 .(VIDEO DE-PO or TERRY emsemvery iong and hard to pronounce and difficult name._ Q. All right. All right. A. And he's But he's done an excellent job. We've gotten really good feedback on the work_that he's done in trying to better and work with the departments and agencies to try and improve the whole IT program in state government. And, you know, that is a huge problem, because there's a lot of We there's a lot of issues and there's a lot of lack of standardization. Q. Is he the chief information officer? A. :Yes, he?s the chief information officer for the state. Q. All right. Do you know whether or not there is a litigation.hoid on the communications of your staffknowiedge. Q. So.are the *w are members of your staff, to your knowledge, continuing to follOw the docunent destruction policies of the state of Iowa? A. Yes. HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515)-288w4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY 21 Q. Okay. So no one has told you that all of the material that you have created or that' has any any possibility of relating to this lawsuit is not supposed to be thrOwn away? A. Well, I just know that my WM my staff has been instructed to follow the law and WW and do what's appropriate.. I do know that maintenance of records is a significant issoe that the state has to deal with. 'And We And not just ewmails but also the paper records and how long they have to be kept and all of this. And mm And then my recollection is even going back to when I was governor before, eventually they then go to archives at at the "u the Department of Cultural 'Affairs, part of the Historical Building. Q. Do you understand what a litigation hold is? A. No. Q. Okay; But to your knowledge, there is no litigation hold at the moment on on your materials? Is that a correct understanding? A. I don't know what a litigation hold is, and I don't know whether there is or isn?t. KUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 25' cq- (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) I 22 Q. All right. How do you ensure that text messages are retained? A. That?s not something that I deal with because I don?t receive text-messages. Q. Do people on your staff receive text messages? A. Yes. Do they have smartphones that are issued by the_state of Iowa, or do they have persona: smartphones, or do you know?- A. I don't know. I don't have.a 'smartphone. I think that there are members of my staff that may have, but-I don't know for sure. -All right. Do you have a general understanding of the way that the workers? compensation laws of the state of Iowa work and how people.who are injured file claims and that sort of thing? A. Yes. Q. Do you know what percentage of cases are disputed and brought to the.workers? compensation'commission? A. I do not know the exact percentage, no. Q. Do you know the number of people who COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288H4910 10(VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 23 are injured on the job in Iowa on an annual basis,'roughly? A. I don?t know the exact number of people that are injured on the job, no. And of the m? the workers we do you understand that the workers' compensation system is designed to be self?executing? A. I understand, going back to my time in law school, that the workers' comp system was set up as an alternative system to deal with injuries on the job so that you wouldn't have to go through the tort system, which iS'expensive and takes a significant amount of time, and w? and you wouldn't have to prove fault in order to have an injured worker provided with the resources for their medical bills and for healing and getting back to work as quickly as possible. Q. Okay. Do you Do you have any idea what number of cases are disputed on an annual basis in Iowa? A. I know that there?s a number of cases that are disputed. I am aware that, you know, not only do you have the workers' comp commissioner, you have a number of deputies. COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 24 And there's a significant number of cases that come up every year, some of which are settled and some of which are eventually decided by a workers? comp commissioner. Q. _Can you give me a percentage of the number of people who are injured whose cases are- disputed? A. No. Q. Can you give me a percentage of the number of cases that are disputed that eventually result.in a hearing? A. No. I'm the governor of the state of Iowa. E'm not the commissioner of workers' comp, and I don't know all the details of that particular division or any other within state government. My responsibility is really to set the vision for the state and set goals for .the state and focus on things that are important to grow the Iowa economy and create jobs. Q. Is it your position that the number of disputed oases in_workers' compensation is great enough to affect the mm the business climate of Iowa? A. Well, I look at what the costs are and COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO peso OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 25 i listen to the people that are affected by it. As governor, I go to all 99 counties. And as a candidate and as governor I Visit with a lot of people in all kinds of businesses, large and small, be it manufacturing, food processing, trucking, whateVer. And so I get information from them. I also hear from attorneys that are involved in the workers? comp system. MS. CONLIN: Would you read him the question back, please? (Requested portion of the record was read.) A. It's not the number of cases. It's what the costs are that impact the business climateit?s not number of cases. It's what their disposition is and what mm the costs that are as a result of workers? comp are passed on to the employers that have to pay for them. That's what impacts the business climate. Q. And you mm A. Not the number of cases. Q. Are you teliing me insurance premiums are what affects the business climate? HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REEORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO Base 033? meet BRANSTAD) 25 A. Insurance premiums, but you also have some employers that are self?insured. Q. Yes. And so what affects their decision~makihg? A. Their costs. Q. All right. A. So their costs whether it's. self?insured or whether it's insurance premiums, it's their costs that and the relationship that that has to what the costs.are in other states. So businesses are just making decisions as to where to locate a business or where to expand a business based on the competitiveness of that state's tax and business climate. Ahd so Iowa is in competition with ail the other states in the United States, as well as other countries. Q. Do you know whether or not the percentage of cases in the Workers' Compensation Bivision that settle has changed since Mr. Godfrey became the workers? compensation commissioner? I've had a lot of businesses teii_me that they're fearful because of some of the HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 27 erratic decisions that have been made and. consequently are settling rather than take the risk of having it go before the workers? comp commission commissioner. Q. You used the word "erratic" to desoribe the decisions made by Mr. Godfrey. Is that a correct-understanding? A. Well, I have been told by a number of Ibusiness people Q. Who? A. Well, I don't know that I can recall all the names, but I do remember having a very Serious meeting with Eldon and Regina Roth with Q. Roth? A. Yes. Q. . And what business are they in? A. They have a company called BPI which makes lean, finely textured beef. It's a very fine product, and it's been very unfairly treated by some people in the media. And we have done all we can to try to get the truth out about the fact that it's a safe product and it?s a good product and that it is actually less expensive. HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 cc; (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY 28 Ahd And if you want me to go into more detail about this product, I?d actually brought the governors of Texas and Kansas with me to go through their plant in in South Sioux City to demonstrate the cleanliness and the safety of this food product. They?ve never had complaints about it, but they've been smeared by some celebrity chefs and others that have put out misinformation and scared the public. Q. Well, Mr. Godfrey doesn't put out information like that and scare the public, does he? A. No. You asked me.about the Roths. Q. No; .I asked you Mm A. And I?m telling you mm I'm telling you- .that You asked me about people that had expressed concerns about Mr. Godfrey, but I also have shared with you that this company also has had other unfair things done to them. Okay. Well, let's talk about what the Roths said to you With respect to Mr. Godfrey. They said that they were concerned about the direction that the workers? comp commission was going in IoWa, that it was COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY BRANSTAD) 29 driving up the costs of their business and and making their state of Iowa less competitive. Q. 'Okay. Anything else? Did they tell you how much their cost of business was being driven up by Mr. Godfrey? A. Well, I can just say that they were just one of many. I?ve talked to trucking companies. I've talked with manufacturers. o. What mm A. Well, Don Decker would be an example of a m" of a president of a trucking company in Fort Dodge. One of the classics "w Q. And what A. was a company called Griffin Pipe. Griffin Pipe has a plant had a plant in Council Bluffs and a plant in Virginia. Debi Durham and.I met with them in Chicago. They also have Griffin Wheel in in Keokuk. and they expressed grave concern about They have two plants that make pipe. Basically identical. They both make the same kind of pipe. And And one is in Virginia, and one is in Council Bluffs. But because the workers' comp costs were so much higher in Iowa than Virginia, HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288w?910 (VIDEO 9390 OF TERRY 30 they eventually closed their plant in Council Bluffs. Did you meet with the Griffin Pipe people once or more than once? A. I visited their plant on two different occasions. Once when I was governor before, back in the '903, and then again while I was governor this time} And this particular meeting with Griffin Pipe was actually held in Chicago. I think their with their parent company, which which has different operations, including Griffin Wheel. But they specifically shared with -me and and then I think followed up with documentation as to why the costs for workers' comp in Iowa were so uncompetitive with'their sister plant in Virginia. Q. Do you know whether or not the laws of Virginia are the same as the laws of Iowa?. A. Well, not exactly. I think the laws vary from state to state and mm but we do 'compete with all of the statesAnd the state of Oregon actually puts HUNEY-VRUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY 33? out an annual review of the cost comparison of the various states for workers? comp. And the trend has been really bad for Iowa. Back in 2006 we were the 7th lowest. And I_think in 2012 we were 28th. So we?ve gone to being e? ftom_being one of the lowest in terms of workers' comp costs to now being above average. Q. Do you know whether or not other states have made legislative changes that affect their competitiveness? A. I am aware that some states have done things to legislatively to improve their competitiveness. Q. All right. And Iowa has not taken any action since you've been the governor the second time to change anything about workers' comp; correct? a. Well, we have a split legislature. And things that I can get passed for we pro business things through the House I cannot necessarily even get debated in the Senate. Q. Not my question, Governor. Iowa has not taken any action with respect to changing its workers' HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO DEPO 0F TERRY BRANSTAD) 3? compensation system; correct? A. Not recently. 9.: Okay. Not while you've been governor- the second time? A. Not to my knowledge. Q. All right. And do you think it's fair to blame the workers? compensation commissioner for the-failure of the state of Iowa to take action to improve the business climate legislatively? A. Well, there's a lot of factors, but the decisions that are made by the workers' comp commissioner are one of the major factors that go into the costs of workers' comp. . And I've heard from the business community, I?ve.heard from lawyers representing self?insured and others, and we've aiso.had court cases where judges and.even the Court of Appeals have indicated grave concern about some Iof the decisions that have been made by the workers' comp commissioner and some of his deputies. Q.I Okay. Well, let's return to the issue of with whom you have discussed these issues. Let's set aside for the moment the issue of COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO as TERRY BRANSTAID) 33 fairness and and talk about you had indicated that you had ?w you spoke let?s "w well, let's mm let?s talk about the Roths again. When did you meet with them? A. Well, I met with them first when I was campaigning for governor in 2010. Q. Where do they live? A. They live in the area. I met with them at their corporate headquarters in Dakota Dunes, South Dakota. Q. All right. So do they have a plant in Iowa? A. They did have, but they closed it. Q. When was that? A. They closed it because of that smeat that talked about about lean, finely textured beef. Q. And me And A. and that was a plant that was in Waterloo, Iowa. Q. Okay. A. They also closed plants in Kansas and in Texas. Q. That doesn?t "m A. And I invited the governors of Texas LTD. (515) 288W4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 34 and Kansas, and ?w and I think the lieutenant governors of South Dakota and Nebraska joined us, and we went through the plant that stayed Open in South Sioux, Nebraska. Q. Okay. The closure of the Iowa plant in Waterloo had everything to do with the so?called pink slime issue? A. No, I wouldn't use that term. Q. But finely-tr A. That is not fair. It?s inappropriate, and I strongly object to people using that pejorative, unfair term. Q. The plant in Iowa that A. "Lean, finely textured beef? is the -right term. Q. All right.. The plant in Iowa that manufactured lean, finely textured beef closed as a result of the smear that you've described; correct? A. Right. There's a lawsuit involving that. Q. Yes. A. And I believe very strongly that they were treated very unfairly by some people in the national media and_?~ and by certain celebrity COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288"4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 35 chefs. Q. And they were defamed; right? A. They were defamed. Q. Okay. The Roths, you met during the campaign with them. Have you met mm Did you meet With them after that? A. Yes. When you met with them during the_ campaign, what did you tell them that you would 'do Well, first of all, what did they say to you about the workers' compensation commissioner? A. They expressed concern about some of the deciSions that were being made, things like expanding liability for employers for things Ithat didn't happen during work hours or at the plant. They expressed concerns about the fact that decisions had expanded whole?body disability and ?u and created uncertainty and the insurance companies were raising rates because of that level of uncertainty. Q. Insurance companies were raising the rates as a result of the decision of mm the decisions HUNEYMVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO IDEPO 0F TERRY BRANSTAD) 35' A. Right. Q. of the workersF compensation commissioner? a. Well, and I heard this not just from them. I also attended a meeting of the self?insureds. Q. 'Okay. I want to do one thing at a time, though. You've told me that you met with the Roths, and I want to continue to explore what the Roths said to you with respect to Mr. Godfrey. _Have you told me everything you remember about what the Roths said to you.-- A. Yes. Q. m? about Mr. Godfrey? What did you say to them? A. I mainly listened. When I was running_ for governor, and I do this as governor, but I did this as a candidate, I went to all 99 counties. Q. I know that. A. I visited a lot.of businessesdid this as the president of Des Moines University as well. I said HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO or means BRANSTAD) 37 "What do you like about Iowa, and what are some of the problems or challenges that you think .need to be addressed by the governor?" And workers' comp was one of those issues that came up consistently from a lot of different sources.' They were just one of them.- I also talked to trucking companies. I talked with manufacturers. Q. Okay. Let's A. I talked with businesses of all sizes in different locations of the state. And this is a theme that I consistently heard as I traveled the state of Eowa and as I campaigned for governor. And I set my goals of creating 200,000 jobs, raising family incomes by 25 percent, reducing'the size and cost of government, and restoring Iowa to best in America in education. Q. All right. Can we return to the Roths and what you said to them that you would do to help them with workers? comp in Iowa? A. I really at that point in time just listened to their concerns and listened to the concerns of others as I traveled around the KUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, (515) 288?4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY 38 state. I did indicate that my goal is to grow the Iowa economy and make Iowa as competitive as possible in all areas. Q. And then you talked-to the Decker trucking company, Mr. Dan Decker. What did you A. Don Decker. Q. Don Decker. I'm sorry. When did you neet_with him? A. I em I have met with Don Decker on a number of different occasions. I can?t remember specifically. Q. What did he tell you about the workers? compensation commissioner? A. He expressed similar concerns. Q. Okay. What did you tell him you'd do- Ito help him?. A. Again, I listened to his concerns, I listened to other trucking companies, I listened to other manufacturing companies and other businesses of all all sizes and heard similar concerns as I traveled throughout the state. Q. What other trucking companies, Governor? A. Weli, actually, I met with the entire HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO 23390 or TERRY BRANSTAD) 39 Motor Truck Association. Brenda Neville is their executive director. Q. Brenda Neville? A. Brenda Neville. Q. A. Well, I'm not sure how she spells her name. Q. Okay. A. But she is the executive director of the Iowa Motor Truck Association. Q. When did you meet with them? A. I've met with them on many different occasions. I met with them during the campaign. I have met with them virtually every year that I?ve been governor. Most recently I "w I met with them at John Smith's residence in Iowa. Q. Okay. Was that recently? A. Smith is CRST Trucking ?u Q. I know it well. A. mm in Cedar Rapids. Actually, that was this past summer. Q. Did all of these business people that you spoke with talk about anything other than HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 40 workers? compensation and the workers' compensation commissioner? A. Oh, yeah. We talked about a lot of things, in terms of things that we can do to make Iowa more competitive, things like the property tax, unemployment, other issues as well. I?m proud to say we?ve made progtess Oh those issues. On have passed\ the biggest property tax cut in Iowa history, and we have also because of the success we've had in bringing more business and jobs to Iowa, we?ve had $9 billion in capital investments in this state. Q. -And that's been with Mr. Godfrey as the workers? compensation oommissioner;-correct? .A. This is because of Debi Durham?s good work in attracting new.business and.jobs. .And despite the Workers' comp issues and problems, we?ve.seen the unemployment unlike workers? Comp, the unemploymeht costs have gone down. We have an unemployment system that has different tables depending upon how high the unemployment rates are in Iowa. and so as workers' comp costs have been going up in HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY newsman) 41 relation to other states, our unemployment tax has gone down. And, in fact, January 1 we go to another lower tax table that will save Iowa employers $108 million a year. I And so when I talk to businesses, we talk about the totality of the circumstances, the good and the bad of what's going on in Iowa. Workers? comp is going the wrong direction, but the unemployment is going the right direction, property tax is going the right direction. We have a very great_economic development dynamic leader that's doing a great job of helping us market the state, And when you look at all of those circumstances, Iowa has made progress, and we're doing better than a lot of other states, but 'that doesn?t mean that we should ignore the one area we're going the wrong direction on and try to address that. Q. There's only one area that we're going the wrong direction on, and that's workers' comp. Is that a correct understanding? A. Well, I wouldn't say that's the only thing, but it's one of the bigger things that I've been hearing from the business community COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 42 on. Okay. We've talked about the Griffin Pipe. And you indicated to me that ?e that :you've met with them on two different occasions. They A. Actually, I have done plant tours twice. Q. Once when you were the governor before and_once during_this term? A. Yes, And then I met with them, along with Debi Durham, in Chicago. Q. Just once? A. Yes. Q. Did-you ever meet em A. We met with their parent company in Chicago, and that's when-they specifically shared with us their concerns about the huge disparity between the workers' comp costs in Iowa and the plant in Virginia, which were basically.comparable plants, making the same product. Q. But the laws are not comparable, are they, Governor? a;mu Well: they're Sim%%arr.but I'm not sure I don't know all the details of COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 43 Virginia's workers' comp laws. Q. Well, one of the things that you indicated to me'was that Griffin Pipe's complaints had to do with the two different mm the Virginia and the Iowa workers' compensation "w A. Costs. Q. mm costs. And did that happen just once with your meeting in Chicago? A. With Griffin? Q. Yes. A. Yes. But I "w as I said, what i heard from Griffin was similar to what I heard from a lot of other companies. Members of the Iowa Association of Business and Industry, which has over l,400 members scattered all over the state of Iowa. They used to be the Iowa Manufacturers Association. They've expanded their membetship to include more than manufacturers. But I heard from a lot of members of the Iowa Association of Business and Industry as I traveled the state. And I've always been a very handswon governor. I've always visited a lot of COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288m4910 10(VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 44 businesses. And in those Visits I usually ask what's going well and what the Challenges or problems are and if there's something we might be able to do in state government to help them -to be able to grow and expand in our state. Q. Did any Did you receive any complaints about health insurance premiums while you were campaigning and while you've been the governor?_ A. Oh, yes. That's another issue.that that has been a huge problem for a lot_of businesses. Q. Have you fired anybody as a result of the health insurance premiums going up? A. We haven't fired anybody me Q. have you?aw A. em with regard_to this or that. Q. Have you ew-Have you out anybody elsefs pay? A. - Well, with regard to reducing the pay, that is a responsibility that the legislature Q. Governor, I want you to answer my- question. A.I ?f has given to the governor. Q. I want you to answer my question. COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 DEPO 0s TERRY BRANSTAD) 45 Have you out anybody else's pay in state government since you have been the governor this for your second term? A. We have eliminated a lot of positions, and I have terminated people.- Q. Have you out anyone else's pay? A. Well, first of all, 1 have only done what I have been given the responsibility to do by the legislature. And that is Have you out anyone else?s pay? That is the question. Yes or no? You have out other people's pay or you haye not out other people's pay? Which is it? A. We have eliminated positions, which is a lot worse than cutting somebody's pay. Q. Have you out anyone else's pay in state government? Yes or no? I A. Well, first of all, there are thousands of people in state government, many people of which have seen reductions in their pay. And some of these decisions are made at different levels. Q. I'm talking about decisions that you make at your level. A. Well HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTB. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO DEPO 0F TERRY eaansman) 46 Q. Have you out anyone else?a payWell, I'm not aware of others that I have reduced I WW I m? As I said, I follow the law and do have a responsibility to evaluate people and to evaluate the people that are specifically in the executive branch of government at high ieveis of mm of at high levels in the_exeoutive branch of government. And make a decision as to what their compensation should be within a range 'whioh is set by the legislature. And the legislature determined that range to be appropriate. And the governor has discretion, -after evaluating the person?s performance,.under. the law to set that. And that's what done. Q. Have you cut anyone else's.pay at the executive level? Anyone else over whom you have responsibility directly. A. No. Did you have any complaint about auto insurance premiums going_up? A. Iowa's auto insurance premiums are among the lowest in the nation. Q. They're not mm HUNEYEVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO base or TERRY BRANSTAD) 47 A. Meet people think insurance premiums are still too high, but if you look at a comparison of Iowa's auto insurance with most other states, our auto rates tend to be relatively low. Q. Are you telling me that you have not gotten any complaints about auto insurance premiums? A. I think the insurance commission gets significant complaints about that, but I can' tell you I am very familiar with our auto rates in comparison to other states, and our rates are among the lowest. Q. Okay. Not exactly my question. While you were campaigning for governor and while you?ve been the governor, have you received any complaints about auto insurance premiums? A. Sure. Q. Have you received any complaints that auto insurance premiums are increasing? A. Well, you know, I hear concerns and I listen to all kinds of different things. This doesn't happen very often. As I said, auto rates in Iowa are relatively low, and we don't HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288~4910 (VIDEO TERRY BRANSTAD) 48 get we don?t get nearly as many complaints about'that as mm as we have about workers' comp. Q. And And health insurance premiums; correct? A. Well,.health insurance has really been. adversely affected by ObamaCare. And we've been doing all we can to try to make some changes to make Iowa more competitive. In fact, we passed the lowa Health and Wellness Plan with the specific idea Ito make sure that people have some skin in the game and that ~e from my experience at Des Moines University, I learned about the impertance of doing health risk assessments and so people know what their own risks are-and work to reduce their risks. And then also the importance of exercise and nutrition and not using tobacco products. I Do you know what percentage of costs to business health-insurance premiums are compared to workers' compensation premiums? A. well, 2 do know more about that with regard to state government, because we?ve just gone through a situatiOn where our costs to the taxpayers of Iowa paid for state employees went COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO naive 013' TERRY newsman) 49 up $40 million for this coming year. And that's something that's got to be addressed and something that I'm very concerned about and one of the reasons why in negotiations with the state employees said we need to have state employees paying something for their health insurance. if you don't have any skin in the game, then you don't realise the impact it's going to have. And it's really hurting our state. We're one of the few states where we have a significant share I think over 85 percent of our employees are paying nothing towards their health insurance. I think this is wrong, the people of Iowa think it's wrong, and yet I've got to negotiate that through the collective bargaining process. We have'heen successful in doing that with the SPOC union, and we're we?ve implemented that with the noncontract employees. And I'm in the process of negotiating that now with the other unions. MS. Would you read him the question back, please? (Requested portion of the record HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO 0F TERRY BRANSTAD) 50 was read.) A. I don't know the exact percentages, no. Q. Have you had_an opportunity-to review the statements of the judiciary with reSpect to workers' compensation? A. Brenna Findley has made me aware of some of the comments that have been made by district oourt judges and the.Court of Appeals. Q. Okay. Are you aware that the Supreme Court of Iowa says, and I quote, "Workers' compensation statutes are to be liberally construed in favor of the employee"? IA. I'm not surprised that the Court has said that. Q. Okay.- Are you aware that the Court has also said "The legislature enacted the workers' compensation statutes primariiy for the benefit of the worker and the worker's dependents; therefore, we apply the statute broadly and liberally in keeping with the humanitarian objective of the statute. We will not defeat the statute's beneficent purpose by reading something into it that is not there or by a narrow and strained construction"? Are you mm HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 51 A. That's a statement basically from the Supreme Court. Q. Yes. A. I?m not going to diapute that. Q. All right. The The workers' compensation commission and the commissioners and the deputies are all bound by judicial precedent;*correct? A. Yes. Q. And you are also bound by judicial precedent; correct? A. Decisions of the Supreme Court are the law of the land. And I've always respected that. Q. Okay. The courts have also said "Our courts have long held the Workers? Compensation Act was drafted for the benefit of injured Workers and should be liberally construed to further that objective. This policy has been in place since Pierce," "versus Bekins," "Van and Storage Company decision in 1919." Are you familiar with that interpretation of the Iowa Supreme Court? A. Well, I know the Supreme Court has said COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY BRANSTAD) 52 allot of things over the years, and E'm not going to dispute things that the Supreme Court has said or that you have read directly from. Q. .Ali right. And you do recognize that the commissioner of the workers' compensation commission and We and his deputies are bound, as you are, by the Supreme Court's pronouncements with respect to the interpretation of the workers' compensation law; correct?. A. Yes. Q. When you me Before you became the governor you sent a number of letters to people with respect to seeking their resignation; right? A. Yes; We ?w We did as previous governors have done. Basicaliy sent out a form 'letter asking people to resign and then with the intention-of making a decision-of whether to accept the resignation or not. Q. Did you send such letters to people who had an appointment for a term of years? A. Yes. (Exhibit 57 was marked for identification.) Q. Ali right. Exhibit 57 is the letter Hewsruvauean COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288~4910 (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY BRANSTAD) 53 dated December 3rd, 2010, that you sent to Mr. Godfrey; correct? A. Yes. Q. Did anyone in the executive branch who was a gubernatorial appointment, whether for a term of years or at will, not get such a letter? A. I think there may have been a couple that we missed, but we sent this to, you know, the people that were the top'administrators within'state government, whether they had a term for years or NM or were department heads that served at the pleasure of the governor. This is similar to what Governor Vilsack and Governor Culver did as well. Q. I really didn't ask you that. How many such letters did you send Out? A. I think there were probably about 30. Q. How is Chris Godfrey a key decision?maker? A. Well, workers? comp is one of the important responsibilities of the executive branch of state government. Q. Is he a member of the administration? A. Yes. HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288M4910 cq. (VIDEO DEPO 0F TERRY - 54- Q. Is he a member of your administration? A. Yes. Q. He responded to you on December 6th. I?m marking as Exhibit 58 his letter back to you. (Exhibit 58 was marked for identification.) Q. Did you receive that letter? A. Yes. Q. All right. When you received the letter, what did you do with it? A. Well, we received WW we had a number of people that we asked to resign that did resign, and we had a few that chose not to resign. And we scheduled meetings with those that chose not to resign. Q. As I understand it, there were three people who had terms of years_or who didn't want to resign for one reason or another; correct? A. Well, I know that, for instance, Mr. Gronstai, who was the head of w? of banking, had a term for years and did resign. I know that Mr. Larson and David Neil chose not to. And I met with Godfrey and Larson and Neil, and we tried to get a meeting with COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO .oa? TERRY BRANSTAD) 55 Mr. Forney, who was in charge of the credit union MW in charge of credit unions, and he was not available. Q. A. Did you ever meet with him? We WM We eventually got him to resign. What we found out with Mr. Forney was that he was in Florida. And then we found out later, several months into office, that mm And he was somebody that I had originally appointed. Q. That's what I thought. A. But we found out that he was absent from his Q. recall. A. duties on a number of occasions. Essentially retired in Florida, as I Well, he retired on the job and wasn't there and wasn't performing as we felt he should. And so when we brought this to his attention and that we felt that he had violated his responsibilities, he eventually agreed to resign. Q. A. with him. met with December Did you have a meeting with him? No, we never u" I didn?t have a meeting I think some of my staff eventually him, but the meeting we tried to get in he was unavailable for. COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY 55 Q. All right. Were you m" At the time that you sent out Exhibit 57, were you aware that Mr. Godfrey had, in fact, been appointed fer a term of years and confirmed by the Iowa Senate? A. Yes. And that was true of the others as well. So we sent this letter, which, as I said, is kind of standard operating procedure. New governors do this. It's frankly recommended by the National Governors Association to put your own team in place and and people that you feel confident share your commitment and philosophy to achieve the goals that you want. And so that?s why we did that. And in each instance we have the We we dealt with the individual's Circumstances. And, you know, Itll be glad to talk about the other ones if you want me to as well, but we did mm and David Neil, for instance ?w Q. Governor, I'm going to ask you questions about each of the others. A. Okay. Q. If you would listen carefully to my HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 57 question and provide an answer rather than the talking points, I would be.very grateful, because otherwise there'is no possibility that we Will finish today. A. Well, I'll do my very best to answer the questions directly. MS. CONLIN: Why don't we change tapes now. THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Off the record ending Tape 1 at 10:18 a.m. (A recess was taken.) THE VIDEOGRAPHER: On the record beginning Tape 2 at 10:28 a.m. (Exhibit 59 was marked for identification.) A. If you mm if you don't mindr I would like to say that the name that I wasn't able to come up with is Bob Wolffradt. 9. Oh, yes. A. And sometimes they call him Bob VW. But he's the IT director-for the state, and he's done a very fine job. Q. Okay. A. So I wanted to make sure that "w and w? and I think you can understand why MM and I COURT LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY BRANSTAD) 58 guess that's with two Fs, vonIWolffradt, so ?w for what it's worth. It's a very unusual name, as I mentioned before. Q. Exhibit 59, which I've just put in front of you, Governor, is a press release, attached to which there are three letters. The press release is done by your incoming chief of staff; correct? A. Yes. Q. Mr, Boeyink? A. Well, he was the campaign manager, and then he became the chief of staff when I took office. Q. Okay. Well, he is referred to in this press release from the governor's em from the governorwelect's office as "incoming chief of staff for Governoerlect Terry Branstad today _released the names of three individuals whO' specifically refused Governor Brahstad's request to submit their resignations by December 15th"; correct? Do you see where I'm reading, right at the top? A. Yes. MR. Just Just for HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (vrnso DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 59 point of clarification, Ms. Conlin, I think you said that this was sent to the press. i believe the record is that this is just a draft and it was never sent to the press. MS. CONLIN: I don?t I don't What makes you think that? MR. Well, that's that's my understanding. That's what I?m advised about this document. So I'm not aware that it ever went to the press. If you are, of course, that?s me you can establish that. But to my knowledge, it did not. MS. CONLIN: All right. Q. You mention "w or he mentions u" First of all, GovernOr, do you know whether or not Mr. Boeyink did, in fact, announce to the press the names of the three peeple who refused to submit the requested resignation? A. No. Q. He did not? A. I?m not aware that he did. Q. Okay. And And that mm that the three are Larson, Neil, and Godfrey; correct? A. Yes. Q. And Larson LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO Best) 03? TERRY 50 A. And he mm I guess what I would point out is that after the campaign he was chosen to become the chief of staff, but he did not become the chief of staff, of course, until I was inaugurated. Q. Okay. And this document that is Exhibit 59'I?ve been informed by your we by your lawyer is, in fact, a draft that was not sent to the press. Is that your understanding? A. Yes. I don't remember that there was_ anything done in the press with regard to this. Q. -Okay. Well, attached mm A. We did have meetings with each of these individuals later in the month of December. Q. Attached to this release are three letters to Mr. Larson, Mr. Neil, and Mr. Godfrey. Did those letters go out? A. Yes. Q. All right. The one to Mr. Godfrey, which bears Bates stamp CONFIDENTIAL60, dated December 21 was actually sent to Mr. Godfrey; correct? A. Well, I think Yes, I ?w And each of these individuals I was informed had not mm had chosen not to resign, and so meetings were COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY sandman) 61 scheduled with them. Q. Okay. My question, however, was did you send a copy of Exhibit 59, page 60, to Mr. Godfrey? A. i didn't. Q. Did anyone on your behalf send such a letter to Mr. Godfrey? A. I assume that ~w that Boeyink did.- Q. Okay. A. Or he directed someone to. Q. All right. Among the things that Mr. Boeyink is quoted as saying in this draft press release is "We will continue to explore other options that ensure Governor Branstad has members of his team fulfilling these duties _moving forward." Is that a correct statement by Mr. Boeyink? A. As I said, he at my direction then put together meetings with each of these individuals. Q. Okay. My question, however, is is it correct that you as governor would continue to explore other options that ensure that you have members of your team fulfilling these duties HONEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (vraao ease or TERRY 53 moving forward? A. Well, I only know what I know. And what I know is that the lieutenant governor and' I and Jeff Boeyink met with all three of these individuals and had a very frank discussion. Q. Okay. I understand that, Governor, and we're going to talk about that. But my question to you at this moment is is it right that you were going to explore other options with respect to these individuals so yOu could have your own team in place? A. Well, I'm not sure what you what he meaht by "exploring other options.? The other option that i guess I'm aware of is that we would have a meeting with them and and discuss with them why that they decided not to resign and w? and w? and to share with them our concerns and to hear their concerns. Q. Okay. What other options were you going to explore besides the meeting, if any? A. Well, that is the other option that that we felt was appropriate. Q. Okay. in the letter that you sent to COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 238-4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY - 63 Mr. Godfrey you also say "Please be assured I am' exploring all available options for ensuring those doing work on behalf of my administration have my full confidence and your decision to temporarily deny me this opportunity regarding your current position clearly indicates the need for a change." What did you mean by that? A. Well, I had just gone through a campaign, and I'd shared with the people of Iowa my vision and my goals to change the direction of the state. We were losing jobs. We had the highest unemployment in 25 years. And I felt that we needed to have a direct focus on economic development and change kind of the gotcha attitude that I saw in some of the departments and agencies in state government, and I was committed to do everything i could to try to really make that change and and to put together a team that would support that. Q. You tell Chris am exploring all available options for ensuring those doing work on behalf of my administration have my full confidence." HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) I 54 What options were you explOring? A. Well, we knew we had to operate within the law and that we.thought the best thing_to do would be to meet personally with each of these individuals and share with them our concerns and also to hear their perspective; And we did have that meeting with Mr. Godfrey, as we did with the other individuals. Q. You go on to say "your decision to temporarily deny me this opportunity." What did you mean by that? A. Well, we meant that we hoped to meet with him and and see if there was a chance that he would reconsider the decision not to resign. Q. Okay. A. And we did at that meeting actually ask him again if he would resign. Q. You go on to say the fact that he wants to temporarily deny you the opportunity to have your own people in place indicates that he needs to go; right? That's what you say in the letter? A. Well, it was our desire. We knew that HUNEYHVEUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 cc; (VIDEO DEPO es TERRY . 65 it was voluntary, but it was our desire that he voluntarily resign. Q. But what you say here is the fact that he is not voluntarily-resigning indicates to you _that he that he needs to go; right? A. No. What we wanted to do is have the facemto?face meeting with him and with the other individuals and to share our concerns and then to also hear his perspective. And we then subsequently had that meeting. Q. Okay. It says "and your decision to temporarily deny me this opportunity regarding your current position clearly indicates the need for a change." Does it indicate the need for a change with respect to the workers' compensation commissioner? A.- That was our perspective, but we felt a meeting would give us an opportunity to hear his perspective as well.- And that?s the reason why we asked for the personal facemto?face meeting. Q. Did you have in mind any other options that.you could do if he refused to resign when you had the meeting with him on December 29? A. First of all, each of these positions HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 56 is unique and different and has mm and so in each case we mm we look at what legally we have the authority to do under the law. And so we had our goals and desires, and we also recognized our reaponsibility under the law to abide by and mw and meet our obligations there. And w? And I've always taken that very seriously. Q. On December 29th, when you.had these meetings, did you have in mind any other options in terms of Chris Godfrey and if he refused to resign? A. Well, we wanted to find out whether he would really how he would respond to the concerns that we had. And then we also wanted to hear his perspective and any changes that he might be willing to make to try to meet the goale.that we had. Q. Well,_he said he would be perfectly willing to support your goals insofar as they _did not conflict with_his statutory duties; correct? A. We had a very frank meeting. In that __me?tlng I shared with him some of the concerns that we had heard from employers and from people HUNEYWVEUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) aroand the state of Iowa, from attorneys representing peopie that mm that are selfuinsured. We had heard concerns that he had been an advocate for eliminating the employer choice of doctor,'which is one of the important provisions in the Iowa statnte that has helped control costs over the years. And we confronted him with that. Q. What did he say? A. He denied it. Q. Do you know whether or not that's true? A. We know that there?s documentation that he had advocated for that, yes. Q. When Mm When was that? A. That information was, think, supplied to us by the Iowa Association of Business and Industry. 9. Was that long before he became the workers' compensation commissioner? A. I think it was before he became workers' comp commissioner. Q. And had he since becoming the workers' compensation commissioner publicly changed his position on employer choice? A. Not to my knowledge. COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO DEPO 0F TERRY BRANSTAD) 58 Q. Did.you ask him.that? A. Well Q. You didn't ask him that, did you?- A A. No. We We asked him his mm his position on that, and he denied that he supported changing the law. I Q. Okay. a. it's It's an area that I feel strongly about and that think has been effective.in Iowa at controlling costs. Q. And so does he; right? A. It was my understanding that obviously the position that he had taken publicly on this was that he supported changing it. 'Now, as the commissioner, I think I don?t know you know, 1 don?t know -that held taken a position on that-subsequently, but I knew that was the position he.took previously. Q. Okay. And mm And he did not tell you that he, in fact, supported employee choice, or he did tell you that? A. well ~w Q. Employer choice. I?m sorry; Let me HUNEYHVRUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY 69 A. My understanding was that we you know, I confronted hie with the question on employer choice, and mm and he basically denied that he supported changing that from the employer choice. Q. 'Okay. And you didn?t believe him? You thought he was lying to yon? A. Based on the information that we had received, we felt that was inconsistent with 'with what we had heard from others. Q. Okay. Well, what information exactly were you relying on? A letter from Mr. Gilliland, perhaps? A. We received information from several employers throughout the state of lewa, many of them members of the Association of Business and Industry, and from em from others. Q. On employer's choice? A. On Well, on several issues involving workersf Comp. I remember specifically the meeting that we had with these mm the group that represents the self ?d the self~insured. And Lance Horbach ?m Lance Horbach, who was a state representative that i knew very well, was also present at that meeting. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) '70 Q. And you discussed employer's choice? A. Yes, we discussed that. We discussed a. number of other issues that-impact employers in terms of their competitiveness, in terms of their costs. Q. Okay. Employer's choice is the law of the state of Iowa and it has been for some long period of time; correct? A. It has;_ And I vetoed a bill that would have repealed_it when I was governor before. Q. Well, Chris Godfrey was not the workers? compensation commissioner at that time; correct? A. No. Q. What Well, let's continue discussing the the options that you_felt you had at the .meeting that you had with Mr. Godfrey on December 29. What did you determine the legal options that you had if_he refused to design to resign? A. Well, actually, there was no other legal option. I mean, he could either voluntarily resign or we had no other option. Q. All right. How ~W.Before ?w Before you HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEF-O OF TERRY BRANSTAD) - 71 met with Mr. Godfrey mm Let me show you Exhibit 60. (Exhibit 60 was marked for identification.) Q. Do you recognize that document? A. I don't recognize the document. Q. Do you recognize whose handwriting that is? A. It is not mine. Q. Well, is it we is it Brenna'e? Is it Jeff?s? Is it Tim's? A. I don't know. I don't really know their handwriting. Q. Okay. Can you read it? A. Well,'I can read it. yes. Q. Okay. Because A. Well. some of it's not easy to read. No. I agree. But they're somebody's notes here with regard to the meetings we had with these individuals. Q. Okay. So you think that this document, Exhibit 60, was made during the meetings that you had? Is that a correct understanding? A. Well, it obviously m? there were three people that we interviewed with These are the HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY '72 individuals that we'd asked to resign that choSe not to, and we had individual meetings with each of them. This appears to be somebody's notes with regard to that. 9. Okay. A. I WW 1 noticed, for instance Yeah. It says here specifically with David Neil that we already had indicated that we wanted to name Michael Mauro, who was a prominent Democrat and had been the secretary of state and had lost the election, to be the new labor commissioner. And so that was something that WW I had already called Michael Mauro after the. election, because he had treated us Very_fairly as commissioner of elections, and expressed my interest in asking him to be part of our administration. And so what David Neil did at that meeting is said that his term was going to be ending at the end of April and that he would like to stay on until the end of April and that he would be willing to work during that interim period and mentor and work with with Michael Mauro to learn the responsibilities of that office so we could have a smooth transition. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY BRANSTAD) 73 And that's exactly what we did, and it worked out very well. So the meeting was we with David Neil was I thought Very satisfactory. I thought what he requested was very reasonable. And he agreed. And em And Michael Mauro then went to work for the state and eventually became the labor commissioner at the end of April. Q. Did you meet in the order in which these?people appear on Exhibit 60? A. 3 don't remember. I do remember we met with all three. 'And I do have a recollection of each of the meetings and and what happened at each of those meetings. Q. Did you take notes? a. I didn?t personally take notes. Q. Who did take notes? A. Well, I don't know. Obviously this sheet would indicate somebody-was in the meeting that took notes. And I WW I think w~ My recollection is Lieutenant Governor Reynolds and myself and Jeff Boeyink were the three that were in the meeting. So I could assume Well, I don't want to assume anything, but we were the three that were in the meeting. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 cc; (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY 74 Q. All right. How long ?w A. This is not my handwriting. Q. Okay. How long did each meeting last? A. Well, I think an hour, something like that. Q. All right. And Mr. Larson, there are several there are noteS-mw A. Yes. Q. at the ?w Okay. First of all, let me ask you this. Do you know who prepared the typewritten part of Exhibit 60? A. No, I don't. Q. All right. And it basically says We each of these says the title of the person, when his or m~.his term expires, and provides some mm A. Right. Q. We other options. And it indicates that Stephen. Larson, the option that you provide to him is offering him his old position or an employment guarantee in return for his resignation.d What 'employment w" Do you know what his old position was? A. Yeah. I think he came from the HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 -cq (VIDEO 3331190 or TERRY BRANSTAD) 7'5 treasurer's office. Q. Okay. A. And he indicated that-he did not want to leave state government. He was willing to resign, but he would like to be able to go back either to the treasurer?s office or some other position in state government. But he also shared with us at that meeting, and we were quite impressed, of the changes that he'd made since becoming the director of the Alcoholic Beverages Division. The previous director had done many inappropriate things and not We had violated the law, and and there was an audit that had pointed out significant problems and inappropriate things that were being done. And Mr. Larson shared with us changes that he had made and improvements that he had made and that he had addressed the issues that the auditor had raised. And so we were impressed with him and with the work that he had done. And then we verified with David Vaudt, the state auditor, what he told us to be correct and accurate. KUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY 75 And I then was very satisfied to have him stay on. And indeed,'l recently reappointed him in 2014 to this position. Q. _Okay. I want to focus on offering him his old position or an employment guarantee, because I'm not exactly sure what an employment guarantee means. Do you mean a guarantee of employment within state government? A. Well, this is And again, my understanding is that he had indicated that he didn't want to leave state government and there might be some other position within state government that he?d be willing Me so he's saying don?t feel that I absolutely have to stay in this position. l'm willing to resign this, but I would like to be considered for another position, another more comparable mm a comparable position in state government. Is there something we if there might be something available." So he was very cooperative. He was very willing to to consider a change. But after reviewing the accomplishments that he had made since since becoming the director of the Alcoholic Beverages Division We and he did HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO 0F TERRY BRANSTAD) 7'7 inherit a mess, and he had_really straightened things out and and addressed the issues of the audit} And wm And not only what he said, but it was verified by-David Vaudt, the state auditor. We felt that it was appropriate to?ask him to stay on. And we did.l So as a result of the meeting with him, we changed our mind and said "We're not asking you to leave. We're satisfied with what you've done." We mw We didn't say that at the meeting. We waited until we had verified it with the auditor. But sometime later we got back to him and ?w and said that "We want to continue to work with you, and we feel that you're addressing the issues and concerns that we have." Q.. All right. And the meeting with Mri Godfrey, what mm can you read mm does the note over at the left side say "Horbach"? And- then I can't read whether the next word is "word" or "work." A. I don't know. Again, this is not my writing. I assume it's one of two other people. It?s It's either the lieutenant governor or or Jeff Boeyihk. But, you know, I w" I HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO TERRY BRANSTAD) -78 think you We and you?re going to be deposihg both of them, so you?ll get a chance to ask thee' that question. But Horbach, you know, as I pointed out earlier, is a state representative ftom Tama who was I think a leader on that committee, a Republican leader on the labor committee in the Iowa House of Representatiees. Q. What does it say on the tight side? What do you think? A. Well, it says January 2006. Q. All right. A. it says I'm not sure what the like I say, I'm not w? I don't know that I can m" there's something about with reimbursement policy and Q. "Problems with reimbursement policy, too," TMOWO, "many steps." Would that be it? A. It could be. Q. Okay. A. It looks like it could be, but again, as I said, it?s not my writing, and I'm not 100 percent sure. Q. All right. And up above that it says WW I don't w? I can't read the first word. HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (vioso DEPO TERRY BRANSTAD) I - '79 Can you? I MR. wI'm sorry. 'Up above where? Ms. co?tiN: Up above the "Problems with reimbursement policy" in handwriting on the right side of the page with respect to Mr. Godfrey. Q. i can mm I think what mm Aside from the first word, think that the remaining part of the phrase is "to retiew appeals." Is that what it looks like to you? A. Yeah. Q. Okay. Can you connect what you recall of the meeting to what these notes say? A. Well, the first typed area says "Workers? Comp Commissioner." That was the position for which we were discussing with Mr. Godfrey. The term expires April of 2015. I think that's selfwexplanatory. "There are concerns about previous decisions that could be interpreted by employers as impediments to business development and growth." You and I have already discussed that. This is a concern that we'd heard from COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD). 80 employers all over the state of Iowa, from manufacturers, from food processors, from from trucking companies, from others, from attorneys that represent those that are selfwiRSured. So that certainly And that we had gotten certain information from A31 and from their members. And we also wanted to make sure that Mr. Godfrey knew what our goals were, our goals of creating_200,000 jobs, raising family incomes by 25 percent, reducing the size and cost of government by 15 percent, and our goal to be number one in education. And w? And that's a clear and consistent message we've had'with_everybody that's a part of this admihistration. Q. Did you renew your request for his resignation? A. Yes. Q. He said no again? A. Yes. Q. Did he explain why he felt he should not resign? A. Well, he basically denied and I would say was pretty defensive about the concerns that LHUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 238~4910 (VIDEO DEPO 033' TERRY BRANSTAD) 81 had been expressed by many_people throughout the state and basically said that he was entitled to serve out the "n his entire term. Q. Are you under the impression that he served in his private capacity as an attorney only for claimants? A. I think the WW I don?t know about that. Q. Did you ever look at his resume? A. No. Q. Did you ever talk with anyone from Tysons? A. I talked "m I've mm 1 think Tyson was one of the companies. In fact, Tyson was one lone of the I think a gentleman from Tyson is one of the people that called the meeting that we went to of the self?insureds that had great conoerns about the direction that workers' comp was going. And so that was a gentleman from Tyson, I believe. that actually chaired that meeting or that communicated with Bonnie Hall, who'was scheduling my time at that time for the meeting that we attended duxing the campaign with the selfminsnred businesses. Q. What did you know about Mr. Godfrey's HUNEYMVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 10(VIDEO DEPO or TERRY BRANSTAD) 82 background when you were talking to him on December 29th? Did you know that A. I knew that he had worked previously- for Tyson. I think somebody had told me that. Me I knew that he was the workers? comp commissioner. I knew that I?d heard a number of concerns about him from the business community throughout the state and companies of all sizes and and also from attorneys. Q. Okay. I?m asking you about_what you knew about his background, about background prior to the time that he became workers' compensation commissioner. A. Well, I don't know that can recall all the specifics of.that. .I ?w But.I do.know that he was the workers? compensation commissioner and that he had.a legal background. Q. Okay. Did you know that he had H- You knew Me You indicated that you knew that he had been an attorney for Tysons; correct? A. Yes, I was informed of that. Q. Do you know that he was Tyson's workers' comp attorney? A. I don't specificaiiy_recall. Q. Do you know that he worked for a COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO neat) OF TERRY 33 defense law firm after he stopped working for Tysons? A. didn't know w? i don't know that I knew all these details. Q. Well, your ~w did you believe him to be a if I may quote, a rabid claimants' attorney? A. Well, I just knew that I'd heard from a lot of people that they felt that he was biased against the employers and that the workers' comp commissioner needs to be somebody that?s going to be fair and objective to all parties. Q. Okay. And-mm And what did you do to check on the things that you were being told? A. Well, I listened to a lot of people, and I travel all over the state of lows. Q. Not my question, Governor. What did you do to check to see whether or not what you say you were being told was, in fact, factual?_ A. Well, actually Hm I asked my legal counsel, Brenna Findley, to do some background. And MW Q. When did she do that? IWhen did you ask her, and when did she do that? HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY BRANSTAD) - 84 A. - Well, I don't recall exactly, but I know that she did. And she briefed me oh And basically her research confirmed what I was hearing as I traveled the state from all_kinds of people. Q. Did she do that A. And Q. I?m sorry.. Did she do that research for_you before_December 29th? A. I don't I don?t recall if WW I think most of this was done after December 29th, between December 29th and July. Q. Okay.l And she prepared some document for you with respect to "m No, not She just briefed me on this information that she had discovered, that she was aware of with regard.to-court decisions that. had been made by district court judges and the Court of Appeals and some of the statements they had made on the record about the fact that they felt that Mr. Godfrey had really in some cases not followed the law or had become really more of a an advocate for the We the claimant as opposed to being an objective decisionmmaker. Q. Did MM Did she brief you on speCifio COURT REPORTERS, LTD.- {515) 288*4910 (erso DEPO OF TERRY-BRANSTAD) 85 cases? A. Yes. 9. Okay. So she was briefing you from a document she prepared; correct? A. Well, I don't know. I just know that? she briefed me and mm and told me about specific cases, some of which involved things that didn't even happen at the workplace and didn't happen during working hours. That seemed pretty bizarre that somebody would get workers' comp for such things as while shopping for clothes for work on nonworking hours nowhere near the premises or that somebody that was working out at a We in a wellness center that was provided by a company because they wanted to join some club that required you to press 300 pounds injured themselves while doing that, that the employer would get stuck with those costs when the employer merely provided that as a convenience for its employees in in the community. And it would be something that I felt would be damaging and detrimental to our goals to attract business and companies to Iowa or for those companies to provide those kind of HUNEYWVRUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288W4910 10(VIDEO new or TERRY BRANSTAD) 85 amenities to their employees. Q. When you me You?ve mentioned two cases to me. A. Well, there are more than two cases. I think maybe a half a dozen or so that she made me aware of. Q. Let's talk about the two that you mentioned. Do you know whether or not those cases were consistent with pre?existing precedent? I A. Well, just basically know that they seemed pretty bizarre and and they confirmed what I'd been hearing from employers about the inconsistencies and about the fact they didn't -feel they were being treated fairly-and that this was driving up the costs of werkers' comp. Q.. Would yon expect that in those two cases and the others that she mentioned that that the employer.would appeal the decisions? Or did they appeal the decisions? Do you know? A. Well, at least one of these was a case that was a Court of Appeals. And-another one mm Q. The two cases that you mentioned, one of those went to the Court of Appeals? A. Well, I think some were district court HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO save or TERRY BRANSTAD) 87 judges and some were Court of Appeals. -and one of them was a concurring opinion that Rosemary Sackett had written. And Rosemary Sackett is a was at that time the chief judge of the Court of Appeals. She?s a woman that I had appointed to the Court of Appeals. By the way, I've appointed a number of women to key positions in my administration and on the Court of Appeals and on the Supreme Court. Q. The question, however, was about the two decisions that you mentioned and whether or not those cases were appealed to the district court or to the Court of Appeals, if you know. A. Well mm Well, as I said, Brenna basically briefed me with and gave me information about not only those cases but some others that confirmed what I had been hearing during the campaign and during the first six months that I was governor from various people throughout the state, businesses of all sizes, and attorneys that were involved in the workers' comp system. Q. Okay. My question, however, has to do with the two cases you mentioned and whether or COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288~4910 (wran DEPO OF TERRY newsman) 88 not they were appealed. Do you know whether or not they were appealed? .If they were outside of the realm of what had been done in the past, wouldn't you expect that they would be appealed? A. Well, they were appealed. Q. Okay. A. And w? And these were decisions Me First, the workers' comp commission decision can be.appealed to the district_court. Q. And Ifm asking_you if they were, the two that you mentionedr A. The mm Well, these were district court judges or Court of Appeals judges. Q. Okay. So_you A.. .That.~w So the information that Brenna .shared with me came from decisions made by either the district court or the Court.of Appeals. Q. Okay. So all of the cases, including the two that you mentioned, were cases that the district that the workers? compensation commission had decided in one way and the district court or the Court of Appeals reversed. Is_that a correct understanding? A. That's my understanding. COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 (VIDEO Demo or TERRY BRANSTAD) 39 Q. All right. We were talking about the meeting itself on December 29th. A. Right. Q. Do you recall that Mr. Godfrey explained to you that he had given up his private law practice and took the oath of office for a full term?" A. Well, everybody that that goes to work for the government in a fullwtime capacity has to do that; Q. Not my question. MS. CONLEN: Would you read the question back, please? (Requested portion of the record was read.) A. Well, I don't specifically recall that, but I wouldn?t doubt that he said that. Q. Do you Do you recall that he explained to you that for him to leave would ?u would have large financial costs A. Well Q. mm for him? w? actually, I know that people that have left the workers? comp commission in the past have gotten private sector opportunities. COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (vraao DEPO 0F TERRX BRANSTAD) 90 And having been workers? comp commissioner, think it would have been a great opportunity for him to probably be able to earn even more and have greater opportunities. and that?s-what we thought made sense.for him to do. But obviously it's his personal decision, but that?s'what?s happened with previous workers? comp commissioners. They've been able to get.good Opportunities in the private.sectorg Q. Okay. MS..CONLIN: Would you read the question back, please? (Requested portion of the record was read.)_ A. Actually, as I said Q. Did he explain it to yoa or not? Did he say that to you or not? A. I don?t recall that he said that. Q. All right. A. But if he did, I?m sure that I would have replied that there are great opportunities in the private sector and that you may be able to do And that's exactly the way look at? it. I always look at it and oftentimes COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 91 people that have worked for me in different_ capacities get opportunities to go to the private sector or some other place and oftentimes in the private sector make.a lot more money than they do in state government. Q. But you do not recall that he told you that for him to leave at the time in December of 2010 would have had large financial costs for him. Is that a correct understanding? A. I don't recall that, but if he did bring that up, I'm sure my response would be that there are great opportunities in the private sector and that you ought to take a look at that. Q. But you didn't MW But you don't recall him saying that to you? A. I don't have a recollection of that, no. Q. Do you recall Did Were you aware that Mr. Godfrey had been a member of A. No. Q. Were you aware that he had represented defendants, respondents in the workers' comp lingo, and claimants at almost exactly the same rate as a when he was in the private sector? HUNEYWVAUGKN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 92 A. No. Q. Were you aware that, in fact, he represented more respondents than he represented claimants? A. No. Q. Do you know what the mm the ratio of his decisions were as workers? compensation commissioner in-terms of defendants and claimants? A. No. Q. Did you ever check on that or ask anyone to do so for you? A. No. Q. Mr. Godfrey was confirmed by the Iowa Senate on two.separate occasions. Do_you know whether or not ABE took a position on his confirmation on either occasion? A. I do not. Q. Do you know whether or not in 2009 he was confirmed unanimously? I A. I understand that that is the case. Q. Okay. How did you determine that the complaints that you were receiving were yaiid? explainedrw; from numerous sources, companies large and small COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO ease OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 93 throughout the state. And then Brenna Findley briefed me on some of the statements that judges had said on the record that were pretty clear that the judges mm district court judges and members of the Court of Appeals felt that what he had done was outside the law or that he had really not remained a neutral but instead had taken an advocacy position. Q. In fact, you said of Mr. Godfrey that courts, plural, had said of Mr. Godfrey directly that he was biased against employers; correct? A. Yes. Q. All right." Is that still your position? Courts have said of Mr. Godfrey that he is biased against employers? A. Yes, based on the information that Brenna Findley supplied to me about statements that were made by district court judges and Court of Appeals judges. Q. All right. And you did nothing to check on whether or not Ms. Findley was telling you something that was true or false; right? a. Well, I trust my legal counsel to give me accurate and correct information. Q. You explained to him in this meeting, COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288M4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 94 _as I_understand it, what your goals were. And you?ve repeated them to_me several times, the 200,000 jobs, increasing takewhome pay and cut the cost of government and make Iowa number one in education. Does.wm Does the Iowa workers' compensation commissioner have any impact on education policy? A. No. .1 think the workers' comp commissionerfs biggest impact.has to do with our goal to create jobs and raise family incomes. But also, we were expecting all of state government to help us We inherited a big financial mess. The state was spending more than it was taking in. The.previous governor had done a 10 percent out? We needed to do a lot to make.state government smaller, more efficient, more accountable. So on three of the four we felt that the workers? comp commissioner could have some influence. Q. During your campaign individuals raised objections_who we who_indicated that the climate created by the_Iowa_workers5 compensation_ commissioner was an obstacle preventing the HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 10(VIDEO napo.os TERRY BRANSTAD) 95 creation of jobs. Is that a correct statement? A. Yes. Q. Okay. How did the workers' compensation commissioner create a climate that was an obstacle preventing the creation of jobs? A. Well, according to the Oregon workers' comp commission comparison that they do on a regular basis between the costs of doing business and workers' comp costs in the various states, the costs for workers? comp insurance, Iowa went from two 4? in 2006 from the 7th lowest to being the 28th lowest. Q. And did that have anything A. Of the 50 states, which means we're above average. And this all happened while Mr. Godfrey was the workers? comp commissioner. Q. Did that have'anything to do with the legislative changes made in the other states, or do you know? A. Well, I don't know. Q. Okay. A. I just know that this is an objective comparison that?s done by the state of Oregon and it's one that businesses rely on. And it is concerning to me that And that confirmed the HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 .23_ 24 25 cq (VIDEO 1:32:20 or TERRY BRANSTAD) I 95 same thing that we had heard anecdotally from. employers all throughout the state. And it was also confirmed by what the-judges had said in these court cases. Q. Okay. You also say that Mr. Godfrey was himself responsible for the commission developing an antibusiness bias or climate, damaging Iowa?s competitive advantage over other states related to his decisionmmaking MM or related to the decisionwmaking process of potentiai new employers; correct? MR. Excuse me. Just for the record, where are you quoting from? MS. CONLIN: I'm not necessarily quoting-anything.- I?m asking if he said that.-- MR. I thought you said you've said this or you've stated this. MS. CONLIN: Yes. Yes. Q. Did e? Did you say thatyou want. it read back? A. Well, 1 guess first of all, basicaiiy, what I said is what I heard, as I've told you _many times, from employers throughout the state of Iowa. COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288w4910 (VIDEO 1mm OF TERRY EWSTAD) 97 And I know that the commissioner of workers' comp appoints, is and oversees the deputies. And so this is the lead person in workers? comp. And as governor, I have the responsibility to look at the entire picture. And I wanted to make sure we?re doing everything we can to grow the economy, bring good business We jobs to the state of Iowa. And we want to do everything we can to The state was going in the wrong direction. The costs were going up, and Iowa was becoming less competitive, and we wanted to change that. And we worked very hard to do that. And we've made great progress in doing that. but workers' comp is still going in the wrong direction. Q. It is still going in the wrong direction? That's what you think? A. According to the Oregon study. Q. it's going in the wrong direction today? A. . That We The workers' comp under Mr. Godfrey's leadership went from 7th lowest to 28th. I call that going in the wrong HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288W4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRX BRANSTAD) 98 direction. Q. In 2014 did workers' compensation premiums in the state of Iowa go up or down? A. What's more important is MS. CONLIN: Would you read the question back? A. me how do we compare to other states. MS. CONLIN: Would you read the question back to him? (Requested portion of the record was read.) A. I don't know specifically. And I think it depends upon individual companies as to whether premiums went up or down. But.I do know.that the trend is in the wrong direction} And we are competing? with other states to attract business.and jobs. know that Griffin decided to close a plant in Iowa rather than in the state of Virginia. I know that there are many other instances where I?ve heard from businesses about their concerns about workers? comp costs going up for them and being less competitive. go? And you ww And you blame all of that on Commissioner Godfrey; correct? All of it? HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REEORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 99 A.- 'Weii, no. Not totally. Q. Oh, well, good. A. But he is the person that's in charge. He is the commissioner that oversees workers' compensation. So there's other factors, but certainly his leadership of that important area of state government is a critical factor. Q. Do you know whether or not workers' compensation premiums nationally in the year 2014 went up or down? A. I do not. Q. Do you know whether workers? compensation premiums in the year 2015 are going up or down in the state of Iowa? A. I think that's something that?s really oVerseen by the insurance commissioner. Q. Right. The insurance commissioner, not Chris Godfrey, sets insurance premiums; correct? A. Right. But those are based on costs. So the insurance commissioner w? you know, he really doesn't have a lot of control over it, unlike the workers' comp commissioner. Because the workers' comp commissioner decides what kind HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) . 100 of awards are going to be given. And what kind of awards are given determines what the costs are going to be for businesses. And'then the insurance companies basically.to underwrite _those costs and the uncertainties that are caused by decisions made by the workers' comp commissioner and his deputies, they then price 'it. Q. The workers' compensation commissioner is bound by the law; correct? A. $here?s a lot of discretion that's available to the workers' comp commissioner ?nder the law. Q. And what you seek is someone who will just who will use that discretion in favor of Iowa businesses; correct? A. No. I want somebody who will be fair. Q. And you think w" A. I want a commissioner that's going to be fair to both claimants and to employers. Q. You?ve given me a number of anecdotal pieces of information. Do you have any statistics or other proof aside from the mm the NCCI data that you've given me that indicate that Chris Godfrey was in any sense unfair to HUNEYHVAUGEN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288w4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 101 employers? A. We have what we've heard from the employers. We've had what the judges have said. We have the fact that in relation to other states Iowa has gone from being one of the lowest cost states in the country to now being in the middle or even above average. 9. Okaywhat you've just told me you say was somehow the responsibility of the workers' compensation commissioner. Is that a correct understanding? a. No, that's not. I have never said that. I?ve said that the workers? comp commissioner has significant discretion and the decisions made by the commissioner do impact the costs. Q. What are A. I'm not saying it's the sole thing, but it is certainly a major factor. Q. What other factors are there in the establishing of workers' compensation premiums? A. Well, I?m not mm I?m not going to I don't know that I know all of the factors that go into that. Q. Any? Any other factors? Do you know COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF-TERRY BRANSTAD) 102 any other factors that go into these decisions? A. No. I ?e I know the state laws have some impact on that. And that's the reason Why I feel so strongly about keeping the costs under control and and where employer choice is critically important, employer choice of doctor. Q. And yon think he lied to you about his position on that. Is that a correct understanding? A. Well, I e? I was told that Q. Wait a minute, Governor. My question to you is do you think when Chris Godfrey said that he supported employer?s choice that he was lying to You? A. At the time, yes. Q. All right. And what else Let's Let?s_go back to the meeting of December 29th. Is letis first deal with these factors. The m" Is Is there a premium m? a workers' compensation premium tax on business? A. Well, that is something that's handled by the insurance commissioner. Q. But there's a tax on premiums; correct? COURW REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 (VIDEO DEPO 0s TERRY BRANSTAD) 103 Ad Well, there we there is an insurance premium tax in the state of Iowa. Q. Okay. Have A. On all insurance. 9. Have you ever called for that to be abolished? A. We have dealt with insurance premium tax, and we have, for instance, in some instances reduced the insurance premium tax on nonqualified annuities. And I did that when I was governor before, and it helped us attract a number of companies that mm that sell those kind of "m in w~ in the state of Iowa. Q. Did you ever do that or try to do that with respect to the workers' compensation insurance premium? Because obviously that would haVe an impact; right? A. don't think it would have em MR. 'Wait a minute. There?s two questions. Which one do you want him to answer first? Q. Let me Let me start again, Governor. I don't.want to ask you a compound question. Have you ever tried or proposed that the state of Iowa abolish the workers' HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 104 compensation premium taxAll right. is it correct that the workers' compensation premium tax has an impact on on the employer's insurance premiums? Weil, it is added to the premiums, but I would point out it's not an area that the business community has come to me ahd_said it's an impediment_and ww_whereas.in the area of the insurance premium tax on nonqualified annuities, I was informed by some very knowledgeable people in the insurance industry this-is an area that we could grow Iowa jobs if we got if we cut that tax. We did, and we were very successful in attracting companies because of that. And 3 have worked very closely and I We Nick Gerhart is presently the.insurance commissioner. And I'm always looking to ways that we can make Iowa more attractive. One of my priorities has been to grow insurance and financial services jobs, and 1 mm Q. I Governor, stop. I only have five minutes left on this tape, and 2 want to finish, if we possibly can, the meeting. I really do not want to hear any more campaign speeches. COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 (VIDEO DEPO or. Team? BRANSTAD) 105 it's not helpful to me. If you would listen to my questions and answer my questions, it is possible we'll get done today. But we?ve already done two tapes and we're not we?re not nearly there yet. So let's go back to the meeting of December 29th and see if we can finish up what he said and what you said. Do you remember that he discussed with you his thoughts that we needed a medical fee schedule? A. I don't remember that. Q. Okay. Do you know that Iowa is one of only four states that do not have a medical fee schedule? A. I'm not aware of that. Q. Do you know how much medical Costs drive workers' compensation insurance premiums? A. It's one factor. Q. Do you know how'much of a factor it is? A. I don't know the percentage. Q. Would it surprise you to learn that it's two?thirds of the insurance premium dollar accounted for by medical care? A. Well, medical care is a huge cost HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO page OF TERRY BRANSTAD) I 106 throughout business and throughout government, so I'm not surprised that medical costs We and we know all we all know the medical costs have gone up significantly. Q. Did you review anything before you met with Mr. Godfrey? Any documents or any materials or anything like that? A. No. Q. Okay. How would a_member of your own team differ mm Let me start again. Bow would the decisions.of a member of your own team differ from those of Mr. Godfrey? A. Well, I learned at new governor?s school when I was first elected governor you want to choose competent people and people that you know, because if you choose competent people that that really know their. area and w? and mm and you can You can build loyalty, but you can't build competence. '80 I?ve always tried to fuse we choose people that are competent and people that are fair and I think people that also share the philosophy have to grow the Iowa economy and bring more good jobs to.the state. COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 (VIDEO 131390 03' TERRY BRANSTAD) 107 Q. So you think that Chris We Chris Godfrey is incompetenthad.heard from a lot of businesses they didn?t feel he was fair. Q. Okay. A. And that he wasn?t treating m" it wasn't evenhanded. Q. Okay. But you_did nothing whatsoever to verify whether or not the decisions that he was making as the appellate?level administrative law judge were fair or not fair; correct? A. Well, 3 went on the basis of ail of the information that was supplied to me from many different sources. From attorneys, from businesses, and elsewhere. And what you wanted in that job was someone who would decide cases on behalf of Iowa' businesses A. No. Q. to grow Iowa businesses; correct? A. I wanted somebody that was going to be fair to businesses. I wanted somebody like the workers' comp commissioners that I'd had when I was governor before. I felt that they were fair, that we had a generous benefit system, but COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 108 we kept our costs down. And so it was fair to both claimants and to employers. And that?s what I wanted in that position. Q. Did the lieutenant governor say anything? A. The lieutenant governor was in that meeting, and she's not bashful. I don't specifically recall what she might have said. Q. Did Jeff Boeyink say anything that you recall? A. Again, he was in that meeting, and we all participated. Q. Well, but did_he We do you remember anything that he said? A. - don?t-??-This is a long time ago, so I don't remember speCifically what people-said. Q. Okay. Iris Post is one of the people you appointed? A. Yes. Q. Somebody that you had_oonfidence in? A. Yes. Somebody that you thought was competent? A. _Well, she was one of several. I mean, HUNEYHVRUGHN COURT REPORTERS, (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY swamp) 109 I served a long time as governor. I had many different people that served in that capacity, but I_think she was the last one that served in that capacity when 1 was governor back in the '80s and '90s. Q. Did you think she was fair to employers? A. Yes. I felt that she and the others that served in that capacity did a good job. Q. All right. I THE VIDEOGRAPEER: Off the record ending Tape 2 at 11:29 a.m. (A recess was taken.) THE VIDEOGRAPHER: On the record beginning Tape 3 at 11:36 a.m. Q. Governor, during your meeting of December 29th did you tell Mr. Godfrey that business wanted him gone? A. I don't recall Specifically. I just remember that I had heard from a lot of businesses they didn't feel that he was fair and that we want would appreciate it if he would consider voluntarily resigning. Q. Okay. So you did tell him that business didn?t think he was fair? HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO DEED OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 110 A. Yes. Q. And-you did tell him that Did you tell him ~w Let me start again. Did you tell him who or what businesses had said of him? A. Well, we had a very frank discussion. And I thought that it was important to do that and also to hear his perspective. And we told him some of the things we'd heard, and he basically denied it. Q. Okay. Just like he denied being in favor of -- A.. Yes. Q. empioyee Choice; correct? A. Correct.. Q. Okay. And do you know-a man named Bill Walljasper? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Mr. Walljasper was the CFO of. Casey?s; correct? A. Correct. Q. Casey's is an Iowa business; right? A. Yes. Q. Okay._ Were you aware that Mr. Walijasper was quoted a week before your HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288"4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 111 - meeting of December 29th mm a week before your meeting with Chris Godfrey on December 29th Mr. Walljasper was quoted as attributing the success of Casey's-to three things that helped them to grow?' One was their people, two was workers' compensation rules, and three was the overall business climate. Did you see that article? A. No. Q. Were'you aware of his feelings about workers' oo?pensation? A. Q. He's not somebody that you talked to or that talked to you? No. Q. Okay. Have you ever taiked to him? A. When I was the president of Des Moines University, I believe that I I did have occasion to meet him. But obviously I knew Don Lamberti a lot better. I had a lot of conversations over the years with Don Lamberti and with Bob Myers, who is the present CEO of mm of Casey's. Q. Okay. Did you ever discuss workers' compensation with Mr. Lamberti or Mr. Myers? HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 112 A. No. Q. Okay. How about Mr. Murdock? Do you know Dennis Murdock? A. I know him. Q. And he's the CEO of A. Yes. Q. Did you ever discuss workers' compensation with Mr. Murdock? A. I don't recall having done so. Q. Are you aware that Mr. Murdock felt that Mr._Godfrey was doing a good job and a fair job? A. No. I have never heard that. Q. -Okay. How about the the CEO of John Deere? -Did you ever talk with him about workers' compensation? A. No. Q. John Deere is the largest employer in the state of Iowa aside_from-the state of Iowa; correct? A No Ry?Vee is. Oh, ?y~Vee is now? When did that happen? A. Oh, by far. Q. Oh, really? COURT REPORTERS. LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 113 A. By far. John Deere was at one time, but that was probably back in the 1980s. Q. Well mm A. But today Hwaee is by far the largest_ private employer in the stateHy?Vee? A. Presently? Q. Well, during your campaign in 2010. A.- Well, it's Randy Edeker is now. It was before that Ric Jurgensway back to Dwight Vredenburg. Q. Did you ever discuss workers' compensation with the CEO of Hy?Vee? A. Well, I I don't recall whether I haye or not. I've talked with a lot of different business people about the various- costs of doing business in our state, including workers' comp. may have. Q. Aside from accusing Mr. Godfrey of being unfair to business, did you have any other discussions with him? A. I had one meeting with him. Q. Yes. A. And that's the meeting we've talked about. That was held in December of 2010. RUNEYMVAUGHN COURT LTD. (515) 288*4910 10_ (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRX BRANSTAD) 114 Q. Okay. Did you discuss his performance? A. I did at that meeting. Q. What did you say about his performance? A. I Welie I expressed the concerns that we have_already talked about. Q. In other words, what you told him was that business thought he was unfair to them?, A. Yes. Q. Okay. Nothing else? A. Well, that was the primary thing, that we were concerned about Iowa's competitiveness and the fact that things were going in the wrong direction. Q.- And one of the things you do not recall about that meeting was a discussion-with-Chris Godfrey about his desire to implement a medical fee schedule which would directly impact twowthirds of every premium dollar; correct? A. i have no recollection of that. (Exhibit 61 was marked for identification.) Q. Okay.- Look at Exhibit 60. What did you do with it? A. it's right here. Right here. Q. Okay. COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 115 A. Okay. Q. No. Look at Exhibit 61. A. This is Exhibit 60 right here. Q. Yeah. Did I give you 61? A. No. No. I hate not seen that. MR. You gave me 61. MS. Yeah, I know. Q. And I meant to give you that, Governor. MR. You gave me 61. i don't know that you gave the witness 61. MS. CONLZN: Yeah. I think that Oh, I did not. I did not. MR. Did you find it on the tOp of your pile there? MS. CONLIN: Sorry. Q. Here is Exhibit 61. That is a communication that occurred between your chief of staff present at the December 29th meeting just an hour or two before the meeting that you had with Chris Godfrey; correct? A. Okay. I'm looking at this here. It's Wednesday, December 29th, at 9:35 a.m. to Jeff Boeyink from John Giiliiand from Q. No. From Mike Ralston. A. Well, a carbon copy was to Giliiland. COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY BRANSTAD) 116 It was from Mike Ralston. _You're right. You?re right. Q. Okay. And it forwards to you Mr. Gilliland's ewmail to Mr. Ralston of 9:27 a.m. on December 29th; correct? A. Okay. Q. Correct? A. Correct. Q. All right._ Aside from this dogument, do you have any other documents prior to December 29th. 2010, that are critical of Mr. Godfrey? A. Documents? Q. Documents. .Not that I'm aware of. Q. All right. In his ewmail to Mr._Ralston, Mr. Gilliland.lists four criticisms of Mr. Godfrey; correct? A. Yes, they?re laid out here. Q. Okay.- He says that Mr. Godfrey instituted a system of round robin appeals- reviewed by work comp deputies and that Godfrey hears very few appeals himself, setting no precedent or consistency for the impacted stakeholders to follow. HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 cc; (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY BRANSTAD) 11?? Do you know whether or not that's true? A. No. Q. Do you know whether or not deputies reverse each others' decisions out of spite rather than following any consistent precedent? A. We heard these kind of concerns from a lot of members of the Iowa Association of Business and Industry. So what he is saying in this ewmail basically confirms what we had heard individually from enployers all throughout the state. - Q. Not my question. MS. CONLIN: Would you read the question back, please? I (Requested portion of the record was read.) You're asking for his personal knowledge or whether he?s heard this? I think he's already told you he heard it, and so u? MS. CONLIN: He?s heard all kinds of things. A. Right. I have no personal knowledge, but this is the kind of thing I've heard. HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO lasso OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 118 Q. all right. And And this is what Mr. Giliiland is indirectly telling you through Mr. Boeyink an hour or so before your meeting with Mr. Godfrey; correct? A. Yes. Q. Did you ask Mr. Godfrey about the allegation that he?s instituted a system of round robin appeals, that he doesn't hear very many appeals himself, that he sets no precedent, and that deputies reverse each other out of spite? A. As 2 said, we had a very frank discussion. It's a long time ago, but and Mr. Boeyink and the lieutenant governor and I all made 4? made statements.and also gave your client an opportunity to respond. 9.. Do you know whether or not you mentioned any of the things that I just - mentioned to do mm to you, the round robin appeals w" A. I don't have a personal recollection of the details. Q. All right.? Did you Do you know whether or not Exhibit 61 um whether or not Mr. Boeyink or you or the lieutenant governor HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT (515) 288?4910 (vnmo DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 119 had Exhibit 61 during the meeting of December 29th, 2010, with Mr. Godfrey? A. You MM You need to ask that of Mr. Boeyink, because it was sent-to him. Q. All right. He goes on to say Mr. Gilliland goes on to say "Iowa District Court recently issued BB BPI versus Rizvic 11~18~10 reversing Deputy Walshire, who heard the appeal; citing a 'lack of objectivity' and ?overstepped his role as an impartial arbiter of the facts and became in essence an advocate for the respohdent?s position.'" Did anybody bring that up with Mr. Godfrey? A. I heard this directly from the Rotbs when I met with them. They shared their concerns about me about the way that their business had been impacted by workers' comp. and I gases this m? this decision basically just confirms what they told me. Q. But I thought what they told you was that Mr. Godfrey was biased against business mm A. Well Q. m" and was ?w and that the Court said 80. COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO DEPO 0F TERRY 120 A. Well, this is a deputy that is directly acoountabie to Mr. Godfrey and who he oversees. Q. You think that the workersk compensation commissioner-can intervene in the deoisions of of his deputies? Is that what you think? I A. Yes. It's my understanding that he has the right to review ail of their decisions. Q. Okay. He has-we But they have.to appeal to him; right? A. It is my understanding that the decisions of the deputies can be reviewed by the commiSsioner. Q. Yes. A. And he is.essentially_responsible for them because he appoints them and they report to him and the decisions are essentially his, even though they're made_by a.deputy. Q. Okay. Well, I just want to get a clear understanding of ?w of what you think that Chris Godfrey could have done about this particular case. This case was heard on appeal by Beputy Walshire. Do you know that? Do you understand that? That?s what it says right in COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288"4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY 121 this document. A. Right. He could.have handled the appeal instead of mm instead of delegating it to Mr. Walshire. Q. Okay. He did not A. It would have been his responsibility to handle the appeal. And for some reason he Ididn't. I Q. Do you know whether or not he had a conflict or whether not know. Q. Okay. A. I just know this was a bad decision and it was one made by the workers' comp commission. In this case the deputy, but who was acting as the commissioner. Q. You think that Mr. Godfrey could have disciplined Mr. Walsbire for making this decision? Is that what you're telling me? A. I'm saying he could have changed it. Q. After the appeal was written by Mr. Walshire? A. Well, I guess for some reason the appeal should have been decided by the commissioner. But for some reason he didn't HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF ITERRY BRANSTAD) 122 decide the We the appeal, as is the normal process. Q. But you don't want him deciding the appeal because heis unfair to employers; right? A. Well, in this case it was the deputy that was unfair to employers, the deputy that works directly for him. Q. And you think he could have disciplined Mr. Walshire for.making this decision? Is that a correct understanding of your position? A. I don?t know We just know that he is the one that's ultimately accountable. Just as I, as governor, am ultimately accountable as the chief executive of the state, he is accountable for the_things that happen within-the workers' comp commission.l Q. Okay. My question.is a very precise one. Do_you believe that.Chris Godfrey as the workers' compensation commissioner could have disciplined Larry Walshire for writing the Rizvic decision? A. I do not know. Okay. Do you know what happened to the Rizvic decision when it reached the Court of Appeals?_ COURT REPORXERS, LTD. (515) 288*?910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 123 A. I think that this was just one of many examples that was given to me of decisions that were unfair to to employers. Q. Number 2, "By administratiVe rule, disregarded the latest version of the AMI ?w AMI We AMA Guides (6th Edition) to he used in wotk comp for determining pain and disability ratings." Do you know what Mr. Godfrey put in place to discuss whether or not the state of Iowa should adopt the AMA Guides? A. No. Do you know that there was, in fact, a task force that met for a year under the direction of Helenjean Waiieser A. No. Q. "n with representatives of everybody and that it was the task force that made the decision about whether or not to adopt the 6th Edition of the AMA Guides? A. No. Q. That it wasn't Godfrey but it was the task force that made the recommendation? A. The ultimate responsibility for what happens in workers' compensation is the HUREY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 :cc; (VIDEO mayo TERRY 124 commissioner that is in_charge. And that's the person that the governor appoints. 'And the- governor has a responsibility to review their performance and set their salary. Q. Did you ever review his performance? A. I did. Q. The December 29th meeting you say is a review of his performance? A. . No. No. _No. No. No. I did that after I'd been in office six months, at the end- of the fiscal year, the end of June, early July of 2011. Q. Okay. So mm So you reviewed his performance at that time. How did you go about .that? A. Well, we went over ali the information, inciuding the briefing that Brenna gave me, as weli.as the input we received from employers while during the campaign and then during the first six months in office. And from mm as again I said, I heard from businesses of all size, I heard from attorneys, I heard from all this wide source of people. And that?s basically how I m~ and I looked at his performance and then_I looked at how we compared HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 .(VIDEO DEPO or TERRY BRANSTAD) 125 to other states. Q. Okay. But returning to Exhibit 61 and Mr. Gilliiand's opinion, he says in number 3 "Completely disregards counsel and the resources of the Iowa Workers' Compensation Advisory Committee an all stakeholders group designed in the 19703 to assist the commissioner used effectively by all prior commissioners."l Do you know whether or not that's true? A. I do not. Q. Okay. Do you know, in fact, that the record of the Workers' Compensation Division and Mr. Godfrey specifically with respect to emmails and other documents show a reliance on the Workers' Compensation Advisory Cosmittee for advice and assistance.over the course of all of the years that he was, in fact, the commissioner? A. I don't know, but I do know that this is a large association that represents over 1,400 employers in the state, and this is their impression. And this is coming from the leadership of that organization, an organization that I've worked closely with on a lot of issues HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 126 affecting business over a long period of time. Q.- And is it your position that Mr. Giliiland is_representing the ABI in his communication with you of Becember 29th? A. I Yes. Q. The ABE had taken a position with respect to whether or not Mr. Godfrey should be retained? A. I had already heard from a lot of the members as I traveled throughout the state. Q. I know. I know that. A. This was coming from the staff, but I'd also heard from the members. Q. Not my question. CONLIN: Would you.read the question.back, please? (Reqaested portion of the record. was read.) A. I don't know they'd taken an official position.- I know that this communication was. sent to my chief of staff designee. Q. But you do not know whether or not that 'was the official position of the AB: or whether or not that was Mr. Gilliland's opinion; correct? COURT REEORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY 12'? A. I know that he is employed by ABE, and I know.that he communicated to my chief of staff ww chief of staff designee. Q. all right. And the fourth thing is "iowa work comp rates will rise again on January let a key driving factor cited by NCCI (national insurance rating actuary) is the increase in 'permanent total disability' decisions by the commissioner?s office under Godfrey." Were you under the impression that that was a quote from the A. That's the kind of thing we were hearing. Q. Were you under the impression that that- was a quote from the A. I don't know. "In a number of these cases, the claimant was still working or able to work." Do you know whether or not that's true? A. I've heard that. Q. Do you know whether or not that is, in fact, the law? A. It's my understanding that giving total HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 (VIDEO DEPO 0F TERRY BRANSTAD) 128 disability iS'not appropriate if somebody is able to work. Q. Really? That's your understanding of' the law? A. It is my understanding that in establishing permanent disability, that permanent disability would not apply if an individual just has a particular body portion that is disabled. Q. Okay. Permanent total disability, that?s what we?re talking about here; right? A. I I guess so. Q. Okayr Permanent total disability, is it your understanding of the law that if a I person can work in any job_for any salary that that person is_not and cannot be held to be permanently totally disabled? A. Well, I don?t know about that. And I don't.know the detail of this. I do know that what I have heard from employers was that under Mr. Godfrey, the amount of the number of Claimants that were being granted total permanent disability increased dramatically. At? that adversely affected the workers' comp costs for Iowa businesses. COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 238~4910 (VIDEO lasso OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 129 Q- When You Say "increased dramatically," please tell me what you mean. A. That Q. Doubled?' Tripied? Quadrupled? A. I don't know to what percentage,'but I just know that we heard this from a lot of different sources. and this was of great concern to them. This was a concern that was expressed by the selfeinsured group that met with us, this was expressed by a lot of individual different businesses, and this was expressed in this communication from Mr. Gilliland. Q. What "u What he sought and what you sought by trying to get Mr. Godfrey to resign was to eliminate permanent total disability for certain workers; correct? A. No. What we wanted is somebody that's going to be fair and that would interpret the law as had been done by previous workers' comp commissioners. Q. Including Iris Post? A. As 1 said, I'm not going to try to single out or identify anybody specifically HUNEYMVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288W4910 (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY 130 except just to say that we do look at trends and we We and things were going the wrong direction. And the impressioh that businesses were giving me is that Iowa was becoming less and less favorable towards business growth-because of the workers' comp decisions. I Q. How many injured workers did you talk to, Governor? A. I I'm sure that I talked to many during the course or the campaign. You haven't mentioned ever talking to injured workers in the course of your testimony here today or in the course of your MM any of the documents that have come forward. IA. . Well, the concerns and the complaints were mainly coming from employers, but I also met with and talked to injured workers, and I've worked with vocational rehabilitation, I?ve worked with mm in fact, worked with Senator Harkih and others to try to help people with disabilities to find employment opportunities. And there are too many people with disabilities that are underemployed that codld he employed and who are f? would be good workers. And one of the things we're trying to HUNEYHVAUGEN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288~4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 131 do is find more opportunities for those people. Q. Okay. A. So I'm very concerned about those people too. Q. In In this litigation you never mentioned injured workers before today, did you? And I mentioned them. A. 'Weil, you ask the questions. I just answer them. Q. Are you aware of court cases where Mr. Godfrey denied benefits to an injured worker and was reversed by the district court or the Court of Appeals or the Supreme Court? A. I'm not aware. Q. You're not aware because you don't think it happened, or you?re just not aware? A. No. I'm just not aware. Q. All right. A. You know, I know there are a lot Of denisions that are made, so I'm not aware and don't expect to be aware of every one. Q. But you think it's fair to pick out one decision or two decisions? A. No. No. Q. And HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT (515) 288w4910 cq- (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 132 A. No. No. it's It's the perception Q. You're supposed to wait until I finish my question before you begin your answer. A. Okay; Q. You think it's fair for you_to pick out one decision or two decisions or a handful of the thousand decisions that Mr. Godfrey has had a role in, or maybe more, and and seek his resignation because of those; correct? A. Well, it wasn't just one or two; I heard this from a lot of different sources all over the state, and it was verified by the decisions of the Court and and also obViously the fact that the workers' comp'costs in Iowa were going up in comparison to other states. So it was a totality.of all of those circumstances and the concern and the impression that I'm hearing from the business community while I'm trying to attract business and jobs and grow the Iowa-economy that_this is something that is a negative. Q. How many decisions did Mr. Godfrey make in the average year? Do you know? A. I don?t know. HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288~4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY 133 Q. Do you know how many decisions be made in'his term? A. I do not. Q. Is Teresa Wahlert Mr. Godfrey?s supervisor? A. . No. Q. Is anyone Mr. Godfrey?s supervisor? A. No. Q. Did you ever ww ever in the course of your evaluation of his performance that you say you made see his resume or his A. No. Q. What files or materials did you look at with respect to your decision to try to get him' to resign or with respect to any decision you made? MR. You mean in addition to what he's already told you? spent a lot of time We MS. CONLIN: Yes. MR. and he's told you MM MS. CONLIN: Yes. I beiieve A. I've told you all this. It?s the same information I've already repeated again and HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO 0F TERRY swamp) 134 again. Q. All right. I'm asking you about files. I'm asking you about materials. A. No files. No files. Q. No There's-no written material? A. No, there's_ho written material. Q. Anyplacethe course of your December 29th meeting did Mr. Godfrey advise you of the positive improvements he made in the workers? compensation department? A. I remember he talked about a a new a new system for electronic filing or whatever that he was working on and that he wanted to see that through and wanted to see that completed. And And I remember that was one of the things he brought up. Q. Anything else that you can recall that he brought up, of positive improvements that he's made? A. That's the one thing I do remember. Q. Did he agree to support your goals insofar as he could do so in within the ethical-constraints of his office? COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 135 A. Well, I got the impression that Q. I No. A. you know, from our meeting "m Q. I asked you did he agree to support your goals? A. I don't recall that he did. Q. Okay. Are you aware that during his term fron 2006 to July of 2011 that costs to employers for workers' compensation declined by 7 percent? A. i know that the trend in comparison to other states was in a negative direction, that Iowa?s costs in comparison to other states We that we went from the 7th lowest to the 28th. Q. Were A. It's our comparison to other states that really counts when you're working to attract business and jobs and encouraging expansion and growth. It's not what the premiums are. It's what they are in_relation to the competition. Q. Well, and then mm but if the competition are other states that have significantly changed their laws, then you can't HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288~4910 .(VIDEO DEPO 0F TERRY BRANSTAD) 136 really blame that on Chris Godfrey, can you? A. Well, it's a number of factors that go into this. The decision of the workers' comp 'COmmissionet is one of the big factors that does affect rates. The laws are another factor. Q. But you But you said the rates don't matter. And the rates have gone down by 7 percent. A. Well, the rates in comparison to other states. Q. The rates have gone down by 7 percent. Did you know that? A. Well, that's that's ?w I don't know that as a fact. Q. Okay. Let me start again. were you aware that from 2006, when he began his term as the workers' compensation commissioner, until July of 20il the rate of workers' compensation premiums declined by 7 percent? A. ?No. Q. Do you Let me Show you what I'm going to mark as Exhibit 62. Because this is WW I don't know if you've ever seen this before, but this is apparently something that you rely HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288"4910 3:315:90 OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 137 on. (Exhibit 62 was marked for identification.) MR. Excuse me. I would like you just to ask questions and follow the I rules.- We don't need your commentary. 'You're not under oath here. Q. Exhibit 62 is a portion of the National Academy of Social Insurance. Have you seen this before? A. No. Q. It's a table that shows the costs per $100 of payroll by state for 2006 to 2010. And where Iowa is concerned, the the costs have gone from 2006 from $1.52 per $100 of payroll to 140 I?m sorry to $1.42 from 2006 to 2010. Do you see that? A. Yeah, I see that. Q. Do you have any reason to disagree with that? A. Well, 1 don't know. This is not information ever seen before. and I don?t wm you know. what is important to me is how we stack up versus other states. Q. And HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 138 A. That?s why we relied on the Oregon study. Q. This comes from a book that is Plaintiff's Exhibit 8 for Teresa Wahlert. and it's on page 34 of the Workers? Compensation: Benefits, Coverage. and Costs. 2010, put out by the National Academy of Social Insurance in August of 2012. This is not something that you?ve seen or that you were familiar with A. Q. or that you knew even knew; oorzeot? A. No. No. Q. Here is an.August 20 Wait a minute. Here?s MW ?his You've talked to me several times about going to the selfminsurance people. 1 think that may be the invitation. (Exhibit 63 was marked for identification.) Q. Do you reoogni?e that? A. Yes. Q. And is this the invitation that you received to speak to the self?insurance people, the Eowa ?m A. Yes. HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 cq- (vxoso DEPO 0F TERRY BRANSTAD) 139 Q. We Self?Insurers Association? Did you go and attend that meeting? A. I did. As did Lance Horbaoh. Okay. And Mr. Horbach and_you were speakers at that meeting; correct? A. Yes. And we did a questionwand?answer session with the mm the attorneys and the businesses that were represented. And the invitation came from Todd Beresford from Tyson Foods. Q. Okay. How many people were at that meeting? A. There was quite a few. 3 would guess 40 or 50. Q. Okay. (Exhibit 64 was marked for identification.) Q. Exhibit 64 is additional the next day you got some additional information about that meeting from Mr. Beresford. Or is this your response w? it looks to me like this document includes both your response to the invitation and a brief introduction or resume that is on page 41; right? HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288~4910 (vxnmo DEPO 0F TERRY . 140 A. Right. Q. Okay. IAnd this comes from an ewmaii address ,Do you see that? A. Yeah. Q. That was your campaign e?mail address; correct? A. Yes. And Bonnie Bail was the campaign scheduler. Q. Okay. Do you know where this particular document came from? A. This document you've got as Exhibit 64? Q. Yes. A. I I don't know wheze it came from, but I do know that it is cortespondeHCe between' Bonnie Hall and and Todd Beresford with regard to the meeting with the self?insured. Q. Well, it saye it came from your campaign; correct? A: Yeah. Q. All right. Who asked or who ordered the destruction of all of the e?maiis sent .during your campaign? A. I would assume that would have been the- campaign manager-once the campaign was over. HUNEYHVAUGEN COURT REPORTERS, (515) 288R4910 (VIDEO mayo 03' TERRY BRANSTAD) 141 Q. That was Mr. Boeyink? A. Yes. Q. Why? Why would he order that? A. I Well, the campaign was over, and it was time to m0ve on to the transition to the governor's office. And, you know, I don't micromanage, and the campaign manager decides what to do with the material. And once the campaign is over me There's a lot of stuff that you've got to get rid of once the campaign is over. Q. And do you know what computers were used during the campaign and where they might be? A. No. I have no idea. Q. I Who would know? A. Mr. Boeyink might know. I mean, he was the campaign manager. Q. Otay. the only meeting that you eyer had with Chris Godfrey was the meeting that you had on December 29th; correct? A. That's correct. Q. Do you know whether or not there were any changes in his duties after you became governor? COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY BRANSTAD) 142 A. I'm not aware that there were any changes. Q. His duties are estabiished by law; correct? A. Yea. Q. All right. Do you know whether or not there was any change in the performance of his duties after you became governor? A. Not that I'm aware of. Q. Do you know whether or not there were any changes in the salaries of his Subordinates after you beoame governor? A. Not that I'm aware of. Q. All right. Have A. Other Other than the normal thing that goea on in atate.government. I think most of the employees are contract employees. Q. What does that mean? A. And so they which means they're in the union. And they get whatever the union Contract provides. Q. Do you believe that previous governors have forced workers' compensation commissioners out? A. Yes. COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288M4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 143 Q. Do you believe that Iris Post was forced out by Governor Vilsack during her term of office? A. I don?t know the specifics on that; Q. Well, tell me what you think. Tell u" Tell me what governors have forced out workers' compensation commissioners. A. Well, I know that governors generally like to have their own team and consequently will ask people to resign. Vilsack did this when left office. Q. Okay. My question ?w A. And And w" And also so did Governor Culver. Q. Okay. My question is what governors forced out what workers' compensation commissioners? A. I don't know. Q. But you believe Iris Post is one? A. I don?t know. Q. Would it be correct that the workers' compensation commissioner cannot himself reduce rates? Right? Insurance company Insurance rates. A. That's not a decision "m but m? the COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY BRANSTAD) 144 decisions.made impact rates, but the rates are set by insurance companies and reviewed by the insurance commissioner. Q. And a workers? compensation commissioner could not reduce rates to or have any impact on, let's say, the rates as compared to Kansas unless Iowa had the same workers? compensation laws as Kansas; correct? A. No, not correct. MR. I?m going to object. That?s two questions. Which one do you want him to ansWer? Q. Okay. Let w" Let me start again, Governor. Is it correct that a workers'. compensation commissioner cannot_make decisions that would reduce rates.as_compared to Kansas unless the Kansas laws are comparable? A.I Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Again, the norkers' compensation commissioner?s decision on benefits does affect rates. Q. Okay. I w? I understand you believe that. A. Okay. Q. Okay. COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY 145 A. There?s no question about that. Q. Okay. .And then can the worker MM can the Iowa workers' compensation commissioner have an impact on reducing rates in comparison to Kansas unless Iowa's laws are comparable to Kansas? A. That?s a confusing question. Q. I think better. Will you mm Do you know whether or not Kansas and Iowa have the same workers' comp insurance A. I think the general workers' comp laws are similar in all states, but the specifics vary. And different states have made reforms and changes based on their own experience and what's happened to their states. think the state of Oregon is we they do this comparison to see how they stack up visuauvis other states. And we and other states look at that because it?s an objective comparison that they do for their own benefit as to how they stack up. And that is my concern, is using that Oregon objective study that's done on a HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288"4910 (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY BRANSTAD) 146 regular basis, our workers' comp rates in relation_to other states have consistently gone up under your client's leadership and as the director of workers' comp. IQ. Okay. But you don't take into account -- A. Commissioner of workers' comp. Q. any differences in the laws of the various states. Is that a correct understanding? A. 1 have no control over the laws of any other state. Q. Okay. You do have control over the laws or some control over the laws of the state of iowa; Correct?_ .A. Right. Q. You have not prOposed any changes.in workers' compensation laws to make them consistent with the laws of the states that have .10wer premiums; correct? A. Well, I did veto a bill that would haVe changed the employer choice of doctor. That was critically important. Q. That ?w A. And I did that when I was governor COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY 147 before. And I also work with the legislature and I?m a realist as to what has the opportunity to get approved by both houses of legislature. And I have a Democratic?controlled Senate, a Republican House.. So I try to propose things that I think realistically can be approved with bipartisan support. Q. Okay. So the answer is "No, have not proposed any legislative changes that would make Iowa laws consistent with the laws of other states with lower premiums"; correct? A. Not in this term. Q. Okay. Do.you know how worker demographics impact on the Oregon rate ranking? A. Worker demographics? Q. Yes. Worker demographics. A. No. Q. Okay. So the difference between states in terms of what kind of jobs they have and what kind of workers they have, you don't take that into account yourself? A. We kind of take a look at it from the overall perspective of how do we stack up and how competitive are we. And that's the nature HUNEY-VRUGHN COURT (515) 288*4910- (vxoso DEPO 0F TERRY swamp) 148 of it. Businesses make decisions based on that, so we have to we have to deal with perception as well as reality. And perception is that in Iowa things are getting worse, in some other states it?s getting better. Q. Well, how does Iowa stack up in terms of health insurance premiums? Do you know? A. We're relatively low. Q. -.Okaypoint that out, because that's interesting. Our MM Our health insurance costs are relatively low, although we Iowans kind of think they?re high, but in relation to other states ne're relatively low. But yet our'??'our health results are among the best. Q. So that's a difference in perception. You_got lots of complaints from employers about health insurance costs; right? A. Yes. Q. Okay. You didn't fire Susan Voss or anybody else as a result of those complaints; correct? A. Well, Susan Voss was specifically asked .to stay on as the insurance commissioner. HUNEYHVAUGEN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 '(VIDEO DEPO or TERRY BRANSTAD) 149 And MW And then, of course, she has been replaced now by Nick Gerhart. And I think he's doing a great job. Q. So you did not fire Susan Voss even though businesses ail over the state of Iowa during your campaign complained about health insurance premiums; correct? A. That?s right. Q. Okay. I'think we've already covered this. Mr. Godfrey has more defense than claimants' verdicts. Did you know that? A. No. Q. What do you think the purpose of the six?year term of years for the workers' compensation commissioner is? A. That was a decision that was-made by the legislature, in terms of, you know, choosing to have this n" instead of at the pleasure of the governor, have it serve a term for years. And we have various responsibilities in state government. Some are termed for years, and some serve at the pleasure of the governor. Q. Isn't it correct that the workers' compensation commissioner has a judicial HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY 150 function? A. No. Q. Be doesn't?_ A.- He is part of the executive branch of state government. Q. Does mm You don?t think that the workers' compensation commissioner has a judicial function? A. No. No. No. No. No. No. The judicial department is judiciary is a separate branch of government. And it is governed by the Supreme Court. The executive branch of government, including the workers' comp commissioner; is part of the executive branch of government. And they have administrative responsibilities, and those administrative duties can be appealed to the courts. Q. - ?erhaps E?m A. There's a difference between the judiciary and the executive. This is clearly executive branch. Q. Okay. A. That's the reason why the governor-is given the authority to set the salaries of the COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288w4910 "cq; (vroso DEPO 0s TERRY BRANSTAD) 151 people within the executive branch. There are people that ww whose salaries are set by the chief justice in the court system. There are people in the legislative branch whose salaries are set by the legislature. Q. Okay. Is mm A. This is_executive branch. Q. Is it your position that the workers' compensation commissioner and his deputies do not perform any quasi judicial functions? A. They perform administrative responsibilities as spelled out by the Iowa Code. Q. Okay. So no, they do not perform quasi judicial functions. Is that a correct understanding? A. They w" They make decisions on We on workers' comp issues that have been separated from the courts. In other words, the legislature a long time ago made the decision this should not be a judiCial decision, it should be done administratively, and it should not require a showing of fault in order to get compensation. So it's a different system than HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 (VIDEO DEPO or mam: amazes) 152 the than the court system. Q. The The commissioner is the person to whom deputies' decisions-are usually appealed; correct? A. Yes. Q. The deputies find facts and apply law; correct? A. They do that within the responsibility thatis spelled out by the code for handling workers' comp claims. I Q. Okay. But you do not agree that the function of the deputies and the commissioner in terms of finding facts and applying the law is a judicial or quasi judicial function; is that correct? A.I It is part of the executive branch of government. Q. You think the executive branch of government cannot have quasi judicial officers in it. Is that a correct understanding? 'Afl No. There's all kinds of people in mm in different areas of the executive branch of government that do have administrative responsibilities to m? to resolve disputes. We do that with unemployment, we do that in in COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 153 inspections and appeais. There's a lot of areas in the executive branch that do that._ Q. And those individuals who make those decisions are called administrative law judges; correct? A. Right. Right. Q. Okay. But the deputy industrial commissioner A. But that is different than a judge in the sense of being part of the judicial branch of government. These are executive branch employees. Q. Does the judicial code of conduct apply to administrative law judges and deputy industrial commissioners m" deputy workers' Let me start again. Does the judicial code of conduct apply to administrative law judges and to deputy ?w workers' comp commissioners and deputy commissioners? A. 1 do not know. Q. You WM We've discussed this before, but I take it that you think that the workers? comp commissioner can directly intervene in what the deputies decide; correct? COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288M4910 (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY 3.54 -A. It is my understanding that the decisions of the deputies can be reviewed by the commissioner, the workers' comp commissioner.- Q. The deputies' decisions can be appealed? A. And the final decision is made by the commissioner or he can delegate that. IQ. Okay. And if he delegates that and somebody makes a decision he deesn't like, then he can reverse it. Is that your understanding? A. Well, I'm not sure that I know the details on that._ I just know that he is the one that's in charge. And obviously if you're not satisfied with what a deputy is doing and you are the person that's in charge, you can make changes. Q. 'Well A. Just like the governor can make changes. If I have people that work for_me that aren't doing what i think is appropriate and they are people that serve at my w~ at my will, obviously I can make changes. Q. Are deputies merit system employees? A. No. Q. Deputy industrial commissioners COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288"4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY . 155 deputy workers? comp commissioners? A. No,'they they are not. They m" They are hart of the bargaining unit. They They are contract employees. 9. Okay. So they're part of the bargaining unit; correct? A. That's my understanding. 9. Okay. And then that w? does that mean that he can walk in Let me start again. Does that mean that you believe that Chris Godfrey can walk into a_deputy?s office and say to the deputy "You're fired" and that will happen? A. It is my understanding and this is a different they are in the bargaining unit, but it is my understanding that the workers' comp commissioner has the authority to to choose We hire and fire the deputies. Q. Okay. So you think that the workers' comp commissioner can walk into the office of a deputy and say "You're fired" and that will happen; right? A. That's my understanding. Q. Okay. And the workers? compensation commissioner MM HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 _cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTADdifferent and "m and, you know, I?m the governor of the whole state, and I have all these different departments and agencies, and the law_is different for all of them. Q. Okay. I understand that, Governor. I am fully aware of that. A. So I don't know all the details, but that's my understanding. Q. Okay. You believe that the workers? compensation commission MW commissioner can fire a deputy based on the decisions'that he or she makes; correct? A. I don't know the details of that. I . just.know.that the commissioner is the one not the governor, not anybody else ?m that has the right to hire and fire the mm the deputies. Q. And you beiieve that the commissioner can fire a deputy based.oh his or her decisions; correct? A. Weli, I think that is a responsibility of the commissioner. 'And I?m not going to mm and E've_never been a micromahager, and and it's the I?ve I ultimately feel that whoever is in Charge is the one that needs to be HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY BRANSTAD) 15'? held accountable for what the people that report to them do. Q. Do you know Eisennauer? A. Yes. Q. Okay. What was your relationship with her? A. She served as-a department head in many different administrations. For Governor Ray, for myself, and for Governor Vilsack. Q. Okay. What mm During.your administration what department or departments did she serve as director of? A. Well, I think she was director of what is now Workforce Development. Q. Okay. A. And then under Viisack she was Department of Management. Q. Okay. Did you trust Eisenhauer in terms of her decisionwmaking ability? A. I thought she was a good administrator. Q. You trusted her to hire people and fire people and make good decisions about who should do what kind of jobs? A. Well, everybody that that is a department head, you trust them until LTD. (515) 288W4910 cq' (VIDEO ease or. TERRY BRANSTAD) 153 they do-something you think is totally inappropriate. Q. She never did anything you thought was inappropriate, did she? A. Not that I was aware of. Q. Okay. Do you know m" Did you trust her to evaluate the qualifications of people to perform appraisals and to manage-people? A. Well, as I said, I'm not a mieromanager. 1 thought Eisennauer was dedicated to public service, served in-a lot of different capacities in three different administrations. I think that says a lot for her. Q. Okay. You never disciplined her or fired her or_tried to fire her? No. Q. You never out her pay or suspended her or put her on probation; correct? A. .No. Q. You did, in fact, promote her; correct? A. I chose-her when ?w when we went through a reorganization and I chose her to be the director of the Department of Workforce Development. HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY 159 Q. Would it be A. I thought she did a good job in that position. 9.. Okay. Would it be fair to call her a trusted iongwterm adviser during your administration until the end of your administration in early 1999? Your first administration. A. Yes. Q. Okay. A. And I know she's a Democrat, and and I know that she had worked for Governor Ray, and I know that she got an even bigger job with Vilsack to be the director of the Department of Management. I Q. Well, she was also ?m wasn't ~m i thought she served aS'Vilsaok's chief of staff for a period of time. Is that true, or do you know? A. Well, I thought she was the director of the Department of Management, who works closely with the chief of staff, but management is the one We Dave Roederer has the position today, that oversees the budget and whatever. And that that?s my recollection. COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288m4910 (VIDEO DEPO 0F TERRY BRANSTAD) 160 Q. - All right.- Well, were you aware in whatever capacity she was serving Governor Vilsaok that she interviewed Chris Godfrey for his job in December of 2005? A. No. Q. Were you aware that she recommended his appointment to Governor Vilsack? A. No. Q.- Were you aware that she based her recommendation on his equal experience with reapect to respondents and claimants and on his membership in A. No. I?m not aware of any of it. Q. Okay. Were you aware that he had letters of recommendation from claimants? 'attorneys and defense attorneys? A. No. Q. _That he had letters of recommendation from businesses and_self?insurers? A. No. Q. Is John Deere a self?insurer? A. I'm not sure. Q. Okay. I would mm They're a large_employer in Iowa, obviously. COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288N4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY 151 Q. Okay. Do you know that in recommending him Eisenhauer specifically mentioned his evenhandedness and his fairness? A. i?m not aware of it. Q. Are you aware that she cited his knowledge of the system, his vast experience, and his good working relationship with all of the deputies? A. No. I?m not aware of any of this. Q. All right. Do you know whether or not Eisenhauer knew of Christopher Godfrey's sexual orientation? A. I'm not aware of it. Q. Okay. A. And I'm going to say I was the president of Des Moines University, and I stayed out of it. I stayed out of politics and government during that time. Q. Do you think that Eisenhauer, your iongtime trusted advisor, would recommend the hiring of someone who would be unfair to Iowa businesses? A. i'm not going to make a judgment. Q. You think she would? A. No. I'm not going to try to judge COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-?910 (VIDEQ DEPO or TERRX 152- what I'm not going to try to judge her or anybody else. Q. Well, you judged Mr. Godfrey, didn't you? - A. I had a legal responsibility to set his salary within a range set by the legislature. And I just performed my responsibility. And I- reviewed his performance as part of that.p Q. But you didn't do any of this in writing? NO. Q. Was that the recommendation of. Brenna mm A. No. Q. Findley, that you not do anything in writing? A. 'No. That?s always been my policy. Q. You never do anything in writing? A. Well, I do some things in writing. I you know, I sign a lot of letters, I ?w I respond to a lot of correspondence. But in terms of the evaluation I do of department heads and division directors, that has not been done in writing. Q. Okay. Are you aware of the polity of COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) I63 DAS with respect to performance evaluations and how they are to be done? MR. For what category of employees?' I MS. CONLEN: All categories. MR. There are hundreds of categories in Iowa the governor A. Well, there?s Yeah. DAS, l?m not familiar with the details of m? of that. Q. Ail right. When you We When you perform a performance evaluation and not Mm don't put it in writingin'writing? A. Well, I have a very demanding and busy job, and have to make a lot of tough decisions all the time. And so, you know, I MN I get information over a long period of time, and then when we get to a point like the end of the fiscal yeat and i have a responsibility to do an evaluation and to make a decision as to what the I em I try to get all that input and and then make a decision. Q. But you don't put it in writing? A. Never have. Q. Okay. Did you receive any complaints HUNEYMVEUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 164 about Mr. Godfrey's cooperation with others? A. No. Q. Any complaints about whether or'not he was responsive to legislators? A. No. Q. Any complaints about adminiStrative rUles? A. No. Q. Did you have 5" Did you have any contact with a man named Greg Egbers, A. No. I don?t I don?t recall that name. Q. Okay. He is a partner in the Betty Neuman Law Firm in Davenport. Does that help you to remember who he is? A. . No. Q. Okay.. To your knowledge. did he ever' complain about Chris Godfrey? A. I'm not familiar with him, so I don't- know. Q. Okay. Is he a candidate for workers* compensation commissioner, to replace Mr. Godfrey? A. Not to my knowledge. COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288n4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 155 Q. At the selfwinsurers meeting did you get any campaign contributions from the attendees? A. -Not at that meeting, but.I think there were people in attendance that had w" had or did contribute to my campaign. But that was not "m that was not a fund?raising event. Q. Did campaign staffers attend the meeting with you? A. I think I might have had a driver with me on that occasion. Q. At the meeting did you list ways that the attendees could contribute to your campaign? A. No. This was not a fund?raiser. Q. Did you make any promises about Chris GOdfrey to the people who attended the self?insurance meeting? A. No. THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Off the record ending Tape 3 at 12:36 p.m. (A recess was taken.) THE VIDEOGRAPHER: On the record beginning Tape 4 at 1339. Q. Governor,r who is on the list to replace Chris Godfrey as workers' compensation HUNEYMVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY swamp) I 166 commissioner? A. There is no list. We have named Q. Miki McGovern? A. Miki McGovern as the acting commissioner, and we are presently taking _appiications for that position. Q. Okay. Are people writing you letters and sending you_theit resumes and that kind of thing? A. My My staff is handling that, but basically Ben Hammes handles all appointments, so the.correspondence with regard to that would go to him. Q. Do you know who has expressed interest in the position? A. No, I don't. Q. Do you know if anybody has written a letter of application for the job? A. Oh, I think people have, but I have not WW I have not_had an opportunity to review any applications or any letters,.and we have not done any interviews yet. Q. Okay. You've Have you discussed the candidates with anyone? A. No. HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910' peso 0F TERRY BRANSTAD) 16'? Q. Would a person who has in the past represented the claimants not be a person you would consider qualified? A. I would not consider that as a disqualification. I would point out that for the Civil Rights Commission i chose Beth Townsend, who had been a plaintiff?s attorney. That was an agency that had a iot of big problems, and there were-Some cases nearly ten years oid.l And there's the old saying that justice delayed is justice denied. And there was a lot of and even some employers maybe had some concerns, but she?s done a phenomenal job. She had people that were unqualified, people that were supposed to be enforcing Q. Governor, I didn't ask you about Beth. A. Okay. Q. I w? I asked w? A. All I'm telling you mm Q. "w A. This is an example of mm of the fact that I did choose a plaintiff's attorney for a key position that makes important decisions, being the director of the Department of Civil HUNEYHVRUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 10 ll l2 13 14 i5 16. _l7_ (VIDEO 1312190 or TERRY amazes) 3-68 Rights. Q. Okay. My question, however, was not with respect to Beth Townsend. My question was a person who has in the past represented claimants in workers' compensation cases would not be a person you would consider qualified. And your answer to that, I believe, is yes, you would consider such a person qualified. A. Qualified.' That's correct. Q. A_person who has previously expressed a position on any issue adverseiy affecting business would or would not be a person qualified for the position? A. I would intend to look at the entire totality of the circumstances, the person's experience and.background and knowledge, their reputation for fairness. I want somebody that would.be respected and be fair to both claimants and to employers. (Exhibit 65 was marked for identification.) Q. Exhibit 65 is the report of the Office _of the Senate Republican Leader called RewOpen Iowa for Business Rules Regulations Tour HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY 169 Report, Iowans? Recommendations for Rule Regulatory Reform We Reform, dated April of 2011. I believe that you rely on this as support for your decision to decrease Mr. Godfrey's salary; correct? A. This is one of the items. Q. Okay. And were you on this tour? A. Yes. I did participate in a number of these events. Not all of themthe focus here was on regulations and we regulations that were detrimental to business growth and expansion in Iowa. Q. Okay. There mm I I have been all the way through this. I find two sentences that have anything to do with workers? compensation on the second?towthewlast page marked First of all, Governor, wasn't this report available to the public? A. This was something that was done by the Senate, I think, Republicans. So this And did participate in it. Q. Okay. My question to you, however, is this report is a document that was made HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288W4910 (VIBEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 1'70 available to members of the public; correct? A. I assume so. Q. Okay. It was made available to members of the press; correct? A. Again, this was under the control of the Senate Republicans, not the governor's office, but I assume that they made this readily available to the public and to the media. Q. Why would I be expected_to keep it confidential then? A. I don?t know. Q. Okay. Are you on page 134? A. Yes. Q. All right. And you will see under under "w well, it's a w? itls a.bullet point, "Injuries occurring amongst employees who then file workers' compensatioh.claims are increasingly becoming classified as ?under the act of employment.'" A. Yes. I see that.- Q. Okay. That's the only thing that have found in here at all that has to do with workers? compensation. Do you know of anything else? A. Well, I haven?t gone through this whole COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 (VIDEO 13sec OF TERRY l7l thing. II do know that the primary focus of this was on burdensome regulations that hurt business and that we cooperated, the governor's office, with the Me with the Republican Senate in conducting these hearings around the state. and we did identify a number of things that could be done to try to make Iowa more competitive. Q. So the answer to my question with respect to whether or not this is the only thing w? A. I don't know. Q. Okay. A. I haven't had a chance to read this whole report. Q. All right. The we What does "under the act of employment" mean? Do you have any idea? A. I think it refers to the kind of things that I talked to you earlier about, where someone is shopping during nonworking hours for work clothes or somebody that's lifting weights at a facility that is provided by a company. Q. That's under the act of employment? A. Yeah. And those things, in my opinion, would not be under the act of employment, but they were were ruled as being under the act BUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 cc! (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 172 of employment by the workers' comp commission. Q. And mm And you would expect that if those were in violation of the law the ww the employer would appeal; correct? Or are there mm A.- Well, i don't know. I mean, it's up to the individuals to decide. And there's a lot of reasons that go into whether you appeai or not, including the costs. Q. Okay. (Exhibit 66 was marked for identification.) Q. Here is Exhibit 66. That is an emmail dated May 5th, 2011, from a Scott Folkers, who was with Winnebago, to Mike is it Bousselot? -Bousseiot. Bousseiot. Q. Okay. Not even.ciose. all right. And_what was A. __Michael Bousselot. Q. What was his position? A. He?s on the governor's staff. He is both a lawyer and a CPA, and he's the liaison to a number of diffexent agencies, including human services and, well, revenue and finance. Q. Okay. A. Revenue. HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTEKS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) - 173 Q. This is a request for a September meeting with the w? the ISIA, the conference that you attended in September of 2010; correct? A. Yes. Q. Did you go to that, or do you remember? A. I don?t recall. Q. All right. Mr. Gilliiand's name has come up before. Do you know where he is currently working? A. I think he is no longer with ABE. Q. Do you know when he left? A. I ?w i do not. Q. Do you know why he left? A. No, I do not. Q. While he was We Do you consider him a personal friend? I A. No. He's an acquaintance. Q. All right. .Is he me While he was with ABE did you or members of your staff have meetings mm regular meetings with him? A. Well, my staff meets with all kinds of people. And I'm sure that they met with him I would more likely meet with Mike Ralston, who is the director. Q. Okay. Do you have any idea how often HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY swamp) .174 either Mr. Ralston or Mr. Gilliland would meet with you or members of your staff? A. - I don?t know.with regard to my staff, but as far as meeting with me, it would be not real often. Maybe once or'twioe a year. Q. Okay. A. I Sometimes would be invited to they usually do an annual reception for legislators and_invite the_governor. And I try to, if possible, attend those. -Q. Okay. So mm So do you think that your staff.or Well, let me start again. Would someone on your staff see Mr. Gilliland or Mr. Ralston or someone from RBI during the legislative.session?_ A. . Oh,.yes. I MM They are a major mm They are a major we not company, but they are a major association that represents a lot of employers in the state of Iowa. And I go back a long way. I actually worked with their predecessor called the Iowa Manufacturers Association in writing mm rewriting the unemployment laws back when I was lieutenant governor. _Was we Would they meet as often as HUNEYHVAUGHK COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 175 every dayOnce a week? Once a month? A. I don't know. I can't speculate. I don?t know who my staff meets with. I do know that we do try to stay in touch with key people and and especially people representing business, as we're trying to grow the economy and bring more jobs to the statepaid employee of ABI, Mr. Gilliland; right? A. He was on the staff of A31. Q. And so was Mr. Ralston; correct? A. Refs the He's the director. He?s the top person. Q. And he's still there? A. Yeah. He was the state director of the Department of Revenue, I think, before he came to RBI. And he was eieoted You probably don?t care about this. Q. I really don't. A. I'm sorry. Q. Was be supposed Was We Were Mr. Gilliland and Mr. Ralston supposed to carry out the policies adopted by COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 cc! (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 176 A. They were employed by ABI, so I assume that their responsibility would be to support their policies. Q. Did you assume when they spoke to you that they were speaking for A. Yes. Q. What led to the meeting that Brenna Findley and Jeff Boeyink had with Mr. Godfrey on July 11th? A. We were in the process of reviewing his performance after completing the fiscal year, so we're just beginning a new fiscal year. Q. When would he-have been the subject of any discussion that you had had would have hadsamong your staff? .A.. It would have been prior to that meeting. Q. Before July 11th? A. Yes. Q. Was there one meeting or more than one meeting at which you discussed Mr. Godfrey? A. Well, and mm and I think it was just not the whole staff, but just basically Jeff Boeyink and Brenna and myself. Q. Okay. And COURT REPORTERS, (515) 288M4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 1'77 A. And And the lieutenant governor may have also been present. She's usually in on all of those decisions we in on all of those meetings. but I am not 100 percent sure. Q. Was ?e A. Because her schedule is such that she?s not always there, but I try to include her whenever it's possible. Q. Was there one meeting or more than one meeting? A. More than one. Q. And do you know when they occurred? A. They In that Qrobably in the several weeks preceding July 11th. Q. Would they be on your schedule?' A. Not necessarily, because these would be just meetings that we have internally with the staff members. The things that would be on my schedule would be meetings from citizens or groups that that my scheduler had scheduled. This We But the meetings between staff members and the governor are not scheduled. Q. Was there a particular decision on the workers? compensation commissioner that you were BUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD.- (515) 288*4910 '(VIBEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 178 discussing?? Well, we discussed all the things that you and I have already taiked about and all the questions you've asked. Q. 'Among the things that you tell me in your long answer to an interrogatory is that you and Mr. Boeyihk and Ms. Findley met to discuss several things, including Mr. Godfrey; correct? A. Yes. Q. . And that Ms. Findley told you what laws governed your conduct with respect to the workers' compensation commissioner. A. Right. There?s a specific statute that does affect this particular this particular_ position.. Q.. Okay. And what statute is that? Well, I don't know the number of it, but I know_itis a statute that basically.says the criteria on which the governor_shoald evaluate and set salaries. Q. Okay. Did you consider those criteria? A. Yes. .9. Okay. On what criteria did you make your decision to cut his salary? A. Basically the performance of duty. I BUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (vmso DEPO or TERRY 179 felt that considering the we the record and all the information we received from the business community, from the lawyers, from the judges, and the contact not only that I'd received but also that the chief of staff ahd others had received that he should not be at the top of the salary range. Q. What judges did you discuss Mr. Godfrey with? A. Well, I went on the information that Brenna Findley briefed me on and on those court decisions. Q. That we've already talked about? A. Right, that I've already talked about. Q. Okay. And you were aware during your discussions that he was at the top of the pay Scale? A. Yes. Q. And that Governor Culver had placed him at the top of the pay scale? A. Yes. Q. And you were aware that at the time that he was initially hired in 2006 he was making $85,000 a year? A. Yes. COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (vxnso DEPO 0F mam: 180 Q. Okay. Did you Tell me what you _remember about mm Was it two meetings that you had in which Mr. Godfrey was considered? A. Well, I don?t remember if it was two or three, but there were-more than ohe. Q. Okay. Tell me what you remember about those meetings. A. Well, I just remember that, you know, .Brenna Findley we had received a lot of information, and mm and I've already talked to you about it, from the different sources, but she also briefed me on what the Court had to say in Q. About Mr. Godfrey? A. Yes. In MM In the various decisions. And there were_probably_a half a dozen or so decisions like that which.were very unfavorable towards Mr. Godfrey or the way that.the mm the workersi comp system had been managed. and Q. You?ve told me about two of them; right? A. Right. and there's others. There's several others. Q. Okay. Can you remember_any of the facts of any of the other decisions? HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY BRANSTAD) 18-1 A. Well, I don?t know that I can recite the specific facts. I just know that Brenna briefed me about that and and shared with me what the judges had to say ih-those opinions. Q. Okay. And what they said was that he was biased against employers; correct? A. That was one of the things they said. Okay. What else do you remember that the judges said about Chris Godfrey? A. That he had taken an advocate's position as opposed to being a neutral. Q. That's what they said about Chris Godfrey? A. Well, that they said about this Idecision that was made by workers' comp. Whether it was about him or one of his deputies; I?m not sure, but he?s the one that's in charge. And so I believe that the person in charge is the one to be held accountable for the people that work for him. Q. But you have said before in this deposition and you said publicly before that the judges said Chris Godfrey was biased against employers; correct? A. Again, I'm looking at cases, and some HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 182 of those were decided by Chris Godfrey, some of those were decided by Mr. Waishire or somebody else that was a deputy working for him, acting' in his behalf, and that they were saying that these decisions were biased or that they were -misinterpreting the law, doing things that were not appropriate. Q. Okay. But you have publicly said that Chris Godfrey has been ?e Let me start again. You have publicly said that judges in the state of Iowa have said that Chris Godfrey was biased against employers; correct? A. That?s my recollection of the information that I received from Brenna Findley about decisions made by district.court-judges and by the Court of Appeals. Q. All right. No_materiais were shown to you during this during these meetings; correct? A. No. She briefed me on on the information. Q. How does she brief you?- Does she have anything in her hands, or is she just talking off of mm off.the tOp of her'head? A. Well, I think some mm sometimes she has HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY 183 documents or information and m? and sometimes she just verbally does so. Q. Okay. A. mean, and she briefe me before I interview people for a lot of things, you know. Q. Okay. Do you remember whether or not she had anything in her hands when she was briefing you about the "w A. I do not. Q. Okay. What instructions, if any, did you give Ms. Findley and Mr. Boeyink about Mr._Godfrey? A. Well, first, to give him an-opportunity again to voluntarily resign. And it?s my understanding that that was totally independent of the decision with regard to the salary. Q. Why did you think that? A. Well, because we wanted to give him that opportunity. I'd asked him back in December before I took office, and I wanted to give him that opportunity again before we went ahead_with the "u what I intended to do with the salary. Q. Okay. You cut his salary because he refused to resign; correct? COURT REEORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 25- cc; (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY smsemset his salary within the parameters that the legislature gave me the -discretion to set it at based on my evaluation of his performance. Q. And your evaluation of his performance was based on hearsay from employers; correct? A. Well, it was based on a lot of things. It was based on information I heard from people as I traveled around the state of Iowa, lawyers and businesses of all sizes, and comments on the record made by judges about his decisions. All of those things were part of it. And also information that my staff had received from various sources. Qt The meeting that you had with Chris_ Godfrey on December 29th, did you ever tell nim that his job performance was unsatisfactory to you? A. Well, it was Yes. Q. You think you_said_"Your job performance is unsatisfactory" or that in substance? A. Yes. 9;..w9kaY- If he doesn't remember that and: in fact, thinks that you did not say such a COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRYI BRANSTAD) 185 thing, do you have any proof of that? A. Well, no. There?s no written document, I guess, other than you showed me the notes that somebody had had made with regard to that meeting. But I don't remember exactly what he said, and I'm not surprised that he wouldn?t remember exactly what I said. But I do know that it was kind of a contentious meeting, that we didn?t agree on things, and that I was concerned about what was going on in the area of workers? comp and I'd heard a lot of concerns about that and I shared that with him. I gave him a chance to respond, and he basically denied most of those contentions that ?m that we made. Q. But it is your testimony that you told him that his job performance was unsatisfactory; correct? A. That I felt that it was not in line with the goals that we had as we wanted to move the state forward and our ambitious goals to create jobs and grow the economy. Q. But you told him his job performance was unsatisfactory?? A. 'That's my recollection. HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288W4910 (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY BRANSTAD) {136 Q. All right. After the meeting did you make take any steps to correct his job performance? A.- I didn't feel it was my' responsibility, becanse I respect the fact that he?s in a position that he's responsible to oversee workers' compensation. And i never tried to interfere in any way with him performing his duties or telling him how he should decide cases or anything like that. I felt that would be totally inappropriate. Q. Well, Governor, but you did tell him and you do take the position that the decisions that he was making showed a bias against employers; correct? A. That?s what I was hearing from employers from.throughout the state. Q. And mm A. That was the impression that the largest association representing business was telling me. And that was confirmed by the the statements that the judges said on-the record in cases that came before them. Q. What would Mr. Godfrey have to gain professionally by showing bias against COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 187 employerS?? A. I don?t know, and I'm not going to speculate. Q. Okay. Do Wouldn't that open him up to charges of unethical behavior as an attorney? A. Again, this is a matter of perception that people had about whether or not he was being fair. And I was hearing from a lot of differeht'sources they didn't feel the workers' comp commission was being done in a fair and evenhanded way. Q. But if a judge or a judicial officer or a quasi judicial officer is biased against employers, that would open that person up to charges under the code of ethics of the state of Iowa that applies to lawyers; correct? A. Well, you know more'about that than I do, but I can just say that those things are very difficult to.prove. Q. 'Do you know whether or not any charges were ever filed against Chris Godfrey during the course of his service as the workers' compensation commissioner? A. I'm not aware of any. Q. Okay. After the meeting that happened COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 cc; (VIDEO DEPO- OF TERRY BRANSTAD) - 188 on December 29th did you get any communication from Mr. Godfrey? A. No. Q. You didn't get a thank you note? A. I We I don't remember. I mean, 1 get all kinds of mail from people. And this is something that happened four years ago. So whether we got_a note or not, I we I don't remember. I Q. Okay. In In the meeting that mm You were not in the meeting of July 11th; correct? A. No. Q. Okay. That was Mr. Boeyink and Ms. Findley; correct? A. Yes. Q. And they first So you don't actually know what happened. but what you told them to do Mm A. I know what they told me. Q. Okay. And Me And what you told them to do was ask him to resign again; correct? A. Yes. That's right. Q. And if he didn't resign, then tell him that his salary would be set by you at the lowest level permitted by the legislature; HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 cc; (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY BRANSTAD) 189 correct? A. He'd been at the highest level, and I indicated that I didn't think that was appropriate, considered his performance, and that yes, it should be reduced to the lower level. Q. And the job performance that you based this on was his job performance in terms of employers; correct? A. 'No. His overall performance as it was affecting Iowa?s competitiveness in terms of attracting busineSs and jobs to the state. Q. Okay. A. And the fairness. Q. All right. Do you know whether or not he was told that if he didn?t resign then his salary would be cut to the lowest level permitted by the legislature? A. He was mm I was told, and I We and Brenna Findley and I talked about this, that it needs to be really clear that there is no there is no connection between the two. Q. Well mm A. That That the first question was whether he?s willing to voluntarily resign. HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRX BRANSTAD) 190 That's his decision. If he chose to stay on, then to inform him the decision that m? that I?d made with regard to the_salaryg Q. Well, if he did resign, then there would be no reason to out his salary; right? A. Right. Thatfs righthad voluntarily resigned, the second issue with regard to salary was moot. Q. Okay.' And if he didn?t voluntarily resign, then they were to tell him that his salary would he reduced to the lowest level allowed by the legislature; correct? A. Right. Q.- Okay. And And that was based on your perception of the perception of the business community toward.him and all the other things you've already told me about? I A. Well, it was based on all of the information that was supplied to me, including that of the judges, looking at the Oregon study in terms of workers' comp rates and how Iowa was going in the wrong direction and becoming less competitive, plus all of the information that I?d received from people as I traveled COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 cc; (VIDEO DsPo OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 191 throughout the state as a candidate and then in the first six months as governor. And also things that the lieutenant governor-had heard, the chief of staff had heard, and other people in the staff. So it came from a lot of different sources. Q. and none of it's written down at all? A. No. Q. Okay. And MR. Excuse me. Now that there's no question and answer pending, you've asked some of the same questions 15 to 20 times. This mm This last question that you're about to ask you've asked mm asked at least five times. And at some point you're going to claim you've run out of time. So I have not objected that 'you've repeatedly asked the same question over again, so "u but on the other hand, I'm you know, when when the day is over, the day is over, so MS. CONLIN: The day may be over, but the deposition is very likely not to be. MR. Well, we'll see HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 23._ 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO 0F TERRY BRANSTAD) 192 about that. MS. CONLIN: Okay. Well, certainly We will. Q. Do you know what Mr. Godfrey said in the course of that meeting? A. No. Q. Didn't they tell you? A. They told me that he didn't resign. Q. Okay. A. And they told me that they delivered the message about what I intended to do with his salary. Q. _Okay. You authorized the meeting? A. Yes. Q. You authorized Mr. Boeyink to out his Isalary? A. If he didn't resign, I gave him I said first I think he should be given that opportunity. Did you specify what Mr. Boeyink was supposed to say and in what order? A. I know that he and Brenna Findley were going to do that together. And Brenna and-I had talked about that. And I knew thathrenna would work closely with Jeff Boeyink in terms of doing HUNEYHV3UG3N COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288n4910 (VIDEO IDEPO or TERRY BRANSTAD) 193 it in the appropriate way. Q. Okay. Did you specify what Mr. Boeyihk was to say and in what order didn't tell him specifically what words, but I did say "You should offer him the opportunity to resign." Q. Do you know under what circumstances Mr. Godfrey can be terminated from his job as a workers' compensation commissioner? A. Well, I mm we never terminated him. and so I I didn't really look into the specifics of that. Q. Okay. Why was mm Why did you tell Brenna to be careful? What were your fears? A. Well, she?s the she?s the one that told me that we need to be sure that we do things appropriately and within the law and that we make sure that everythihg that we do is done in an appropriate way. Q. Okay. And were there any concerns that she expressed to you specifically? A. No. Q. Did you have any contact with Paul McKinley after the July 11th meeting about Chris Godfrey? HUNEYHVEUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF mam: 194 A. Not that I recall. Q. Did you have any contact with Michael Gronstal after the meeting of July 11th, 2011? A. Not that I recall. Q. Did you have any contact with Kraig Paulsen after the meeting of July llth, 201l? A. No. Q. And I believe that you've already answered this. You haven't cut the salary of any_other executive officer; correct? A. No. Q. Why did you not out his pay during the budget process? A. Well, I wanted to wait until the end of .the fiscal year; because that?s the time that I normally do the evaluation of all of the department heads and and division directors.- Q. You didn't call him over to sit down with him and do an evaluation? A. No. Q. Okay. And And you waited until the legislature was gone; correct? I A. Well, the legislature adjourned in June. 9. Right. COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288"4910 (VIDEO 13an OF TERRY 195 A. And this is an executive responsibility. It's not a legislative responsibility. And the legislature sets the law and the parameters, and the governor has the' discretion to set the salaries within the legislative parameters. And what I did was set the salary within the parameters set by the legislature. Q. Well, and the but the the budgeting process for the next year went on during the legislative session that went from January of 2011 to June of 2011; correct? A. Yes. Q. And the saiary included in the budget process was Chris Godfrey's salary of $112,000; correct? A. No. They em The only thing that's in there is a parameter. And it?s up to the governor each year to decide what the salary should be. Q. I'm talking about the budgeting process. Not w? Not what the law says but what the budget says about his salary. A. The budget says nothing about his salary. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 3DEPO 0F TERRY 8RANSTAD) 195 Q. The mm A. The The budget only says the governor has the discretion to set these salaries. And it spells out the ones in the code that have the authority to set. .And that they need and there's mm there's like ranges think he?s in like range 5. And then range 5, it says it needs to be between this and this. And he was at the vety high end of that range, and I moved him to the low end of that range. Q. The very lowest possible pay that you "could have given him? A. Yeah. He was at the very highest. I moved him to the very lowesth Q. All right. Why did-you not warn him in some fashion before yod did that? A. Well, I didn?t do that with ahybody. I Those are decisions that are at the discretion of the governor, and I take the responsibility to do that, and i did that as I do with with all of those that are mm have specific ranges. Q. Do you think that-redecing an executive officer's pay by more than one?third would have COURT REPORTERS LTD . (515) 288"?4910 (vmso mac or TERRY BRANSTAD) 197 a sighificant impact on his ability to meet his- needs and the needs of his family? A. Well, it was pretty obvious to him that I wasn't satisfied. I asked him to resign twice, so I think it was pretty clear that I wasn't satisfied, that I didn?t think the performance was what I wanted. And so it shouldn't have been a surprise that I would set the salary at the range that I did. Q. Neither you nor any member of your staff had any contact with him in January, February, March, April, May, or June; correct? A. Right. And I think it would be inappropriate, considering the job that he has and the responsibility. I don't want to be accused of trying to interfere or tell him how to make decisions. That would not be appropriate. Q. Well, I thought you told me it would be appropriate. A. No. No. No. No. There's a difference. It's There?s a difference between my role as the chief executive and choosing the team that I need that I want to help us grow the Iowa economy and the HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 0:1 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 198 responsibility of fulfilling the duties of workers' comp commissioner, which is to decide matters and to do that_in an evenhanded way. Q. Okay.' Well, the record will be what it is. The only meeting you had with him was December 29th. You had no contact with him in any mm at any time until July 11th. No one had from your office had_eny3contact_with .him; correct? A. To the best of my knowledge. Q. Okay. A. don't WW I can't tell you every person on my staff and who they met with, but I can tell you I did not. Q. Okay. And so from December 29th, when he told you he would not resign, until July of 2011, no contact was had with Mr. Godfrey in any way, as far as you know? A. Not from me. Q. Okay. And then on July 11th in a meeting that lasted_mw About how long? Do you know? - A. don?t. Q. Would'it have been a brief meeting? COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY BRANSTAD) - 199 A. I think so. Q. The w? The commissioner "w The workers' compensation commissioner's salary was reduced by here than onewthird, and he was given the choice of resigning or taking that reduction; correct? A. No. The choice of resigning was given to him. He chose not to do so. And then he was later informed that I had chosen to set his salary at mm instead of at the top of the range where he had been, at the bottom of the range. Q. Okay. When you say "later," what do you mean? A. I mean later in that meeting. Q. In the meeting that lasted about five minutes? A. Well, I don?t know how long the meeting lasted, but I I think it was made clear that he should be given the opportunity to voluntarily resign. Q. Okay. The governors before you had the right to set his salary just as you did; correct? A. Right. Q. And they did so? (515) 288W4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 200 Yes. Q. When they did so, are you of the view that you had the power to decrease it? A. Yes. Q. I Even without cause? A. Oh, had the opportunity within my responsibilities in the statute to review. and one of the big items is performance of duty. _And I I think I?ve gone into a lot of detail as to why I felt that his performance-was not good. And that?s the reason why 1 felt the decision to reduce his salary was appropriate. Q. Okay. So So when Governor Vilsaok and Governor Culver set his salary, they had the power to do that, but you.believe that you had the power even me A. The same.power that they had. Q. All right. A. To set it within the range. And every one of us, I think, acted within our rights and responsibilities as governor to set salary within that range. Q. 'Was your decrease of his salary to the lowest level set by the legislature discipline of Chris Godfrey? COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY 2.01- A. No. It was just performing my duties, the same as what the previous governor did in performing his duty and setting it at the very top of the range. Q. Okay. Well, but you told me that it was because of his performance; correct? A. Yes. Q. But you don?t consider it discipiine to cut his salary by a third mm more than a third? A. No, it's not discipline. It is a judgment that the governor makes based on the responsibility that i have under the statute. Q. Do you "n Did you have any contact with Eric Tabor after this happened? A. Eric Tabor is a deputy attOrney general, and I think there was a complaint made to Eric Tabor by Mr. Godfrey. And I was made aware of that. Q. By whom? A. Somebody on my staff. 9. Okay. Do you know what the nature of the complaint was? A4 Well, that We that he was upset about the fact that his salary had been reduCed. Q. Well, were you surprised that he was HUNEYMVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO {32:90 OF essay BRANSTAD) 202 upset? A. Well, I ?w I gness nobody likes to see their their salary reduced, but I don't think he should have been surprised. Q.- Even after he hadn't heard from you from for six months and.he was going on and mm about his duties? A. Well, because this is the responsibility of the governor. And the legislature sets the parameters. And I have the responsibility to set the salary within those parameters. And I did set the salary within the parameters that the legislature gave me. Q. Do you recall that the advisory committee mm the Workers' e? the Workers' Compensation Advisory Committee met shortly after you-did this? A. No. Q. Okay. (Exhibit 67 was marked for identifioation.) Q. Here is an ewmail and a number of documents that that happened shortly after this happened,_the_first of which is Mr. Gilliland?s note we or e?mail to HUNEYVVAUGEN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO 0F TERRY BRANSTAD) 203 Mr. albreoht about the special meeting of the Workers' Compensation Advisory Committee. Did you ever see this? A. No. Q. Were you ever advised as to what the Workers' Compensation Advisory Committee did? A. No. Q. Did you ever This is the first time I've ever seen this. And I've never seen it or read it. Q. Okay. Turn, then, to page 102. These mm This appears to be an ewmail m? there you go ?w from Mr. Gilliland to Mr. Boeyink. And it it talks_about Iowa work workers' comp premiums. Have you ever seen this? A. I don't recall having seen this particular document. Q. Okay. So when you said that Iowa was 28th, that would be wrong; right? A. Well, we were WM No, that's not wrong. It depends upon the year you're looking at. I think the year 2012 is the year that we were 28th. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) I 204 Q. Well, Governor mm A. This is 2011. Q. I know. And you?ve reduced his salary as of this date; correct? A. Right. Q. All right. So whatever happened afterwards you could not have taken into consideration in reducing his salary, could you? A. We were It was_the trend that I was concerned about. We?d gone from being the 7th lowest to being mm and it was going up every time the new survey came out. And Me And the' most recent one that the 2012 one has as now 28th. So we?ve gone among the lowest to the -middle of the pack or even a little higher. Q. Okay. A. . It's the_same concern I had about education, about Iowa being number one in student achievement to now being middle of the pack and how we need to reverse that and get Iowa?s education the best in America again. Q. On the next page_Mr. Albrecht sends Ms. Henderson Kay ?enderson some materials. and um And then he sends them to Sonya Heitshusen. HUNEYHVAUGKN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288~4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY 205 And did you have any knowledge of what was going on with reSpect to these various communications with members of the press, or would that be exclusively within Mr. Albrecht's jurisdiction? A. This would be the communications director's responsibility. And he responds to the press all the time. We get inquiries every day on various subjects, and it's the communications director's responsibility to do that. Q. Okay. There are We Turn, if you would, to 107, which is a release put out by the Democratic party. Did you ever see that? A. No. Q. Okay. The night before, July 12th, you had appeared On a radio show on WHO. Do you remember that? A. Yeah. i did a Ask the Governor show on WHO. Q. And you A. Until I became an active candidate. And then they couldn't continue the show. Q. But this was in 2011; correct? A. Yes. Yes. (515) 288*4910 10 ll 12 13' 14 .15(VIDEO DEPO or TERRY sms'ram 206' Q. Ahd_you were according to this, you were pressed by a caller about why you would try to force the resignation of Godfrey when the Work Loss Data Institute ranks Iowa's system the 5th best in the nation. "Branstad told the caller to 'talk to the Iowa Association of Business and Industry.?" Did you say that? A. Yes. Based on all of the_ihformation I'd received from members of the Association of Business and Industry as I traveled around the state, I felt that there was some good this particular caller could get-information if they talked to people that were employers and belonged to that association. Q. So you did say "talk to the Iowa .associatioh of Business and Industry"; correct? A. Yes, but I meant it in in kind of a generic term, that this is a big organization that represents a lot of people and I?ve received a lot of input from their members. Q. Well, you didn't say "talk to Iowa busihessg or "talk to Iowa industry." You ?talked we You said "talr to the Iowa Association of Business and Industry"; correct? HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 (VIDEO DEPO 0F TERRY BRANSTAD) 207 A. Well, they ate the largest group that represents Iowa business. Q. Okay. And you go on to say "They are the ones that encouraged me to make a change there." Is that Did you say that? A. Yes, I believe I said that. Q. Okay. A. But again, I ww I want to make it clear, it wasn't just the association. It was a lot of people, some of which are not members of their association, but a number of which are. Q. Well, the words you used were "the Iowa Association of Business and Industry." And that is a particular entity; correct? Correct. Q. All right. Do you know that Iowa?s workers' compensation system'during Mr. Godfrey's tenure was also ranked by one rating agency as the top one in the country? pp No. Q. You did not know that? A. No, I did not. Q. Does that change your mind in any way about what you did to him? A. No. Well, first of ail, there?s all LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO 13390 OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 208 'kinds of different rating groups that giye all kinds of different ratings. And you can find about any kind of group, depending upon their _philosOphical bent, that can rate you high or low. I?ve seen-this, and the state of Iowa has. to deal with those kind of rankings all the time. There are business magazines that do rankings. There are w~ various associations do rankings. There are different groups that do rankings. Q. Did you ever approach any member of the Iowa legislature prior to the time that you decreased Mr. Godfrey?s salary? A. No. Q. Are there, to your knowledge, any businesses that seek to game the workers' compensation system? A. Would you rephrase the question? Q. Yes. Do you know whether or not businesses might have been saying things to you that were not true in order to gain an advantage .in the workers? compensation system? A. I No. I'm not aware of anything like HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO nape OF TERRY 209 that. Q. No-ww No business has ever said anything to you that was not correct in order to get a business advantage? A. Well, I don?t Hm I can't judge whether what they told me was correct. I can just tell you what they told me. Q. All right. Did you get any communications of support for Mr. Godfrey? -A. I?m sure there are different people that expressed their support for him. Q. Did you know that Mr. Godfrey has elderly parents who he was supporting? A. No. (Exhibit 68 was marked for identification.) Q. Exhibit 68. Do you know Paul Deck? A. I do not know Paul Deck. Q. He writes your chief of staff. Did you ever see this letter? A. I don?t recall seeing it. Okaycorrespondence in the governor's office. 9. He says that he's been practicing law HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 (VIDEO DEPO 0F TERRY BRANSTAD) 210 since 1946 and lots of his work has been in workers' compensation and he's been on the Workers' Compensation Advisory Committee and had a lot of contact with the administrative ability of Chris Godfrey and that he's a Republican but states emphatically that Chris Godfrey has performed as the Iowa Industrral Commissioner in the highest degree of proficiency and basically free of fault. Did Mr. Boeyink ever tell you that? A. No. Q. And he says "I'm indeed surprised and greatly upset that the governor has requested Chris Godfrey to resign as the commissioner. Thinking back, I don?t know of a commissioner that has served any better than has Chris Godfrey." Would you take that opinion into account? A. Well, I?m just saying that we get all .kinds of letters and people expressing their viewpoints on a lot of subjects. And, you know, we mm yon know, we look at the totality of the circumstances. HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY 211 Q- SO if yOu'd gotten more letters like Mr. Beck's, you might have reversed your opinion? A. Well, again, we?ve gone through this again and again, but I'm "w-I'm saying that we basically made our decision based on what we'd heard from a wide variety of people throughout the state and the We the statements that were made on the record by the judges in these court cases. And, you know, we get letters.on all different sides of about every issue you can imagine. I(Exhibit 69 was marked for identification.) Q. Look at Exhibit 69, if you would. It is from Debi Durham to Teresa Wahlert. it's a Godfrey update dated July 25th, 2011. Did you ever see we Why don't you look at the document that's attached to it. A. No, I've never seen it. Q. The document? A. What ?m What are you talking about? Q. There mm A. This document that's mm Q. Yes. Exactly. REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO DEPO 0F - 212 A. Okay. This isn't MR. While he's looking at that, let me just state for the record, because 1 don't have one that?s attached, but can we agree that Exhibit 69 is through 39, in case they become unraveled here? MS. CONLEN: Yeah. -MR. Is that what you have? MS. CONLIN: Exactly. A. This is examples of cases under Godfrey? Q. Right. A. Is that what you're talking about? Q. .Yes. Yes. A. _Okay._ Yes. Q. Okay. A. And these are actually some of the cases that Brenna had briefed me on. Q. Okay. It-first comes from Todd Beresford, who is with Tyson, to Noel White. A. Right. Q. Do you know who Noel ?m Noel Noel White is? A. No. COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO 013' TERRY BRANSTAD) I 213 9. Okay. And then it goes from Noel to Debi Durham. And she's your IDED head; correct? A. No. it's now the Iowa Association of Business and Industry. No. It?s now the Iowa Department of Economic "m It?s now the Iowa Economic Development Authority. I want to make sure that I get it right. We changed the law, and it's no longer the Iowa Department of Economic Development. It is now the Iowa Economic DevelOpment Authority that she is the director of. Q. Okay. Mr. Beresford puts says first have attached a copy of the information I put together for Governor Branstad on Godfrey. Our lobbyist Matt Bide met with his chief of staff last Friday" "w That would be Mr. Boeyink; correct? A. Yes. Q. And "last Friday" would be July 22nd; correct? A. Yes. Q. And it goes on to say "and was very appreciative of the information and thought it would be very helpful." It says the governor has not mm not had a chance to review the HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 cc; (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 214 information, but they're going to follow up with you. And then Noel-mm Noel sends it to Debi Durham, who sends it to Teresa'Wahlert and apparently also the lieutenant governor; correct? A. Is that what it says on here? Q. Well, it looks like it to me, but I'm _quite curious about this ewmail address. It says That would be Lieutenant Governor Kim Reynolds;.correct? A. That That sounds like it. Q. Okay. Have you ever seen this e?mail address before? A. No. As I said, I don't haVe ewmaii, so I don't really keep track of ewmail addresses. I Q. Okay. The lieutenant governor, Teresa Wahlert would have seen this. And do you know who else might have seen this document? A. I don't know. Q. There are a number of assertions made in the document. And as I understand it, these assertions were never checked by you; correct? A. Well, as I said, I haven't seen this KUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288~4910 (vrn?so DEPO or TERRY emerge) 21.5 document. The information I went on was the briefings that Brenna Findley gave me with regard to the court decisions that verified what I had heard from people throughout the state of Iowa. Q. Okay. Did you We Did anybody tell you that Chris Godfrey was hoping that a new governor will be in.offioe at the time his term expires and he will be reappointed? Did anybody ever tell you that? A. I don't know. Q. Okay. Did anybody ever tell you Iowa employers and carriers are afraid to come out publicly against Commissioner Godfrey as they fear retaliation by the IWCC in the future if he remains as the commissioner? A. Well, I think I heard, you know, people express concern about that. Q. Who ?m From whom did you hear that? A. It was just relayed to me, I think, by some of the staff. Q. Okay. It goes on to say "The commissioner has almost an unbridled discretion in shaping the W.C. costs of all Iowa employers and there is nothing that employers or even the HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 238*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY swamp) 216 appeilate courts can do to Change that under the present system.? Did anybody ever tell you that? A. There's a lot of discretion that the workers' comp commissioner has. and I think there are people concerned that because of WW because we had consistently been low, and we were low when Mr. Godfrey became the commissioner, we?d had a history of being among the lowest cost states.in workers? comp. And all of a sudden we're becoming a lot 1e35?? competitive and have gone from being the 7th lowest to being 28th. Q. I think that that I've asked you thiscan refresh your recollection. Do you know that there are m? there are about 22,000 workplace injuries every year in Iowa? A. I know there?s a lot. Q. Okay. Do you mm A. I know there?s Me And we work to try to improve safety and reduce workplace injuries as much as we can. Q1 Okay. And-of those 22,000, about 4,000 COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO DEPO 0F TERRY BRANSTAD) 217 become disputed cases. Are you aware of that? A. I?m not aware of the exact number, no. Q. Okay. so it will be less than or about 20 percent that ever become disputed cases. Most cases are resolved between the employer and the employee. Would that be fair? A. I think a lot of them are. And I think MW I've been told by a number of defense attorneys that they don?t want to take the risk of a disputed case because they're afraid the costs might be a lot worse, so they try to settle. Q. So you would expect more settlements in the Workers' Compensation Division while Chris has been its head? A. Well, I'm just telling you this is anecdotal information I've received from people and and from defense attorneys that have said this is what I advise my clients. Q. Okay. Governor We A. So I don?t know the statistics. I just know what people have told me. Q. The The Workers' Compensation Division puts out a report every year. Are you aware of that? (515) 288*4910 (vrnmo DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 218 A. I don't read that report or a lot of the other reports made by government agencies. I don't have the time to. Q. Many of the things that you were told and on which you rely for for asking him to resign and for asking mm and for cutting his salary many of those things are verifiable objectively. Are you aware of that? A. I'm not aware of.that. Q. Okay. And you made no attempt whatsoever to verify any of the things that you were told except insofar as the Oregon workers? compensation rankings are concerned? A. Well, and the judges, you know, what the judges had to say. And And then_I relied on the information I received from people all across the state in the business community who felt they had at least a perception that things were getting worse and that Iowa's reputation for low costs in-terms of workers' comp was was slipping away. Q. Okay. But those things that were verifiable And one of the things that is verifiable not appeala increased; correct? That would be That's a number; HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 238~4910 (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY BRANSTADI) 3-19 right? A. Well, again, I didn?t we I mm I didn't look at all of the numbers, and I didn?t read all the reports, and I don?t think-any governor possibly could.- Q. The You teek as true the things that you were told by Mr. Beresford and and others in connection with Mr. Godfrey?s performance; correct? A. Well, I heard this from a lot of different sources. Not just from him and the, people that were involved in the WM the self?employed organization, but from others that were not in that organization but also were employers in the state of Iowa, of all kinds of businesses, from people like BPI to the trucking companies to manufacturers throughout the State. Q. The first piece of paper of any kind that I have with respect to Mr. Godfrey and all of the things that you're talking about comes on July 25th, 2011; correct? It's Exhibit 69. Do you know ?w A. What are you talking about? Q. I'm talking about Exhibit 69. That is the first thing that I have been given ww HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 (VIDEO DEPO 015' 220 A. Okay. Q. mm that sets out all the things that you're talking about in writing; right? I A. This is just one individual, but we received communications from a lot of different people. Q. I'm supposed to have them all. A. So this we What? Q. Ilm supposed to have all the communications you received. A. Well, most of these were verbal communications that I received. Q. Okay. Well, I understand that. A. They were_hot written communicetions, so mm Q. Okay. A. But I travel the state. _As I have said, I go everywhere. I meet with businesses all over the state. I'm accessible to a lot of people. So I hear from a lot of people. MR. And also, we've ?w we've got exhibits here that show that that's not the only document, Ms. Coolie. _You know that we?ve got 60 end-6i?l need there are othets, SO COURT LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 221 MS. CONLIN: No. This I'm talking about this attachment, George, this this thing that wefre talking about, we?re iooking at now. 5h, all right. THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Off the record ending Tape ?lat 1439. (A recess was taken.) THE VIDEOGRAPHER: On the record beginning Tape 5 at 1446. (Exhibit 70 was marked for identification.) Q. Governor, let me hand you the first page of the attachment to Exhibit 69 that has some-handwriting at the top. And what I believe that it says is "Reviewed 7u22 mm and I'm not sure if it?s an or not. It appears to be an S. Do you know who JRS is? A. I?m not sure. MR. Do you have a copy of that, Ms. Conlin? A. I'm not sure. MS. CONLIN: I'm sorry. Exhibit 70. Write down HUNEYWVEUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 1(VIDEO DEPO 0F TERRY BRANSTAD) 222 A. I wouldn't want to speculate. Q. Do you have anyone on your staff who has those initials that you can recall? I MR. Which w? Which initials? I can?t read them. I MS. CONLIN: I know. It's very faint. I beiieve from the original_dooument you can see it a little bit better. And it appears to say but it We it could be something else. MR. Yeah. Well, I Yeahfootball coach named Jim Rydell mm Q. Okay. A. when I.was in high school, but I'm not sure. Q. Did you appoint Robert Landess to be commissioner or workers' comp commissioner? A. I believe he was the workers' comp commissioner back is the day when it was oailed the industrial commissioner when I came into the governor's office the first time. HUNEYMVAUQHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD.I (VIDEO 93:90 or TERRY BRANSTAD) I 223 Q. Did you retain him? A. Yes. Q. He was on your team? A. Well, not only that, his wife was on the team as well. And she was in charge of tourism in economic development for a period of time as well. Q. Did he perform well? A. Yes. Q. Were you satisfied with his ability to keep business productive? A. I think during that time Iowa's like I said, our benefits were relatively generous, but our costs were relatively low. So it was I think ?w yeah, I think "u I think he did a good job. Q. Okay. Did you approve of the deputies that he hired? A. I didn't make those decisions, and I didn't I'm not a micromanager, so I?ve never tried to tell the industrial commissioner or the workers? comp commissioner who he or she-should hire. Q. Well, were they were the deputies perceived by business to be business friendly or HUNEYWVAUGRN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288m4910 (VIDEO DEPO 0F TERRY BRANSTAD) 224 competitive or w? A. I don't recall receiving complaints from business during that period. Q. Okay. A. Or Not to say there weren?t maybe some, but I don't ?e not the extent of the kind of complaints that we?ve received in recent years under Mr. Godfrey. Q. Eris Post was someone that you appointed? A. Yes. Q. is it correct that she had three chief deputies while you were governor? A. I WW I don't know. Q. Chief deputies who decided appeals Icases. Do you know? A. No, I don't. Do the names Heitland, Lantz, and- Cramer have any meaning to you? A. No. Q. Did you ask any prior commissioners to resign? A. No. Q. was: is your understanding Let me ask you some COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 cc: (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY BRANSTAD) 225 A. I have asked other department heads and other people that had terms for years to resign. Mr. Gronstal, who was the We in charge of regulating banks. 9. You've already A. And he did resign and others did. Q. And you've told me that already. A. So I've done that. Q. Okay. But no other workers' comp commissioners were ever asked by you to resign? A. No. Q. All right. Can the workers' compensation commissioner require his deputies to decide the cases that come before them in a certain way? A. I know that they work for the commissioner, but I think if you assign a case to an individual, that individual then makes that decision. But they need to make it within the law. Q. Can the workers' compensation commissioner ask his or her deputies to decide a case in favor of the employer? A. I w" I don't think that would be appropriate. COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288W4910 (VIDEO vase OF TERRY emswm) 226 Q. Can he tell a deputy what the outcome of a case should be? A. I I don't think that wouid be appropriate because I think the person that hears the We the facts should be the one that makes the decision based on the facts. Q. ICan the workers' compensation commissioner tell deputies to generally resolve. disputes in the evidence in favor of employers? A. I don't think that would be appropriate. Q. Can a workers? compensation commissioner tell the deputies, where there is evidence on_both sides of the issue, to decide the case for the employer? A. it needs to be fair and evenhanded to everybody. Q. So the So the workers? compensation commissioner cannot tell his deputies to decide cases where there is dispates in the evidence or evidence on both sides to decide the case in favor of the empioyer; correct? A. No, I don't think he should. Q. Okay. Can the workers' compensation commissioner tell.his deputies to find facts for COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO nape OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 22'7 the employer where there are disputes with respect to the evidence? A. Again, I think the We the person that bears the facts should decide the case based on the information that is before them. And it should be fair and evenhanded to both the claimant and the employer. Q. Should there be a quota of cases annually that are decided in favor of employers? A. No. That would not be appropriate. Q. Should employers have a certain percentage of wins in the workers' compensation commission? A. No. That wouldn?t be appropriate. Q. Do you know how appeals are assigned within the workers' compensation commission? A. No. Q. Has anyone else discussed with you the issue of medical fee schedulesgovernor take adverse action against any person who serves in a judicial function as a result of any judicial decision he or she makes? No. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288w4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 228 Q. Do you believe that being gay is a choice? A.- No. Q. Can people who are homosexual be changed into heterosexuals by medication? A. Not to my knowledge. Q. Can people who are homosexual be changed into heterosexuals by or counseling? A. Not that I'm aware of. Q. Can people who are homosexual be_ changed into heterosexuals by prayer? A. Not that I'm aware of. Q. During your campaign for governor have you specifically opposed granting employment protection to people based on sexual orientation? A. No. Q. When you were governor in the first _term between nineteen eighty ?w not your first term, but in your first stint as governor between 1983 and 1999 did you specifically oppose granting civil rights under the Iowa Civil Rights Act to people who were gay? A. I don't recall that. HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288w4910 '(vmao DEPO or TERRY BRANSTAD) 229 Q. Do you recall not doing it? a. I just don?t recall that at all. Q. Have you opposed amending the Iowa Civil Rights Act to include protection from discrimination based on sexual orientation? A. No. Q. Is it correct that you opposed efforts to amend the Iowa Civil Rights Act to include sexual orientation from 1983 to 1998 "w 1999? A. Well, this is a long time ago, and we and I'm just mm you know, I dealt with a lot of issues during the time that I was governor. And obviously times have changed. Q. Okay. Have you ever used the word "fag"? A. No. Q. Have you ever used the word "faggot"? A. No. Q. Have you ever used the word "homo"? A. No. Q. Have you ever mm A. I was taught to treat people with respect and dignity. I was raised by a Jewish mother who was very sensitive to discriminationeighth grade teacher COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY 230 taught me that everybody should be treated with respect and dignity. Q. Have you ever_used the word "fairy"? A. No. Q. And have you ever used the word "queer"? A. No. Heve'you ever used the word "pansy" or "fruit" when referring to someone who is homosexual? A. Q. have you ever used any pejorative words to refer to people who are homosexual? A. No. Q. You?re sure of that? A. To the best of my knowledge, I never have. I?ve always tried to treat everybody with respect and dignity. And I dontt believe.in calling people names. IQ. The Varnum case was decided when you were not the governor; correct? A. Right. IQ. IAod_it it was a topic during your cempeign in 2010? A. It sure was. HUNEYMVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 231 Q. Do you agree or'disagree with the Varnum case? Well, remember, I had a primaty with Bob Vander Plaats, who was the firebrand and the most vociferous opponent of that. And I had to go through a primary with him. But I put the focus on the economic issues and the fact that Iowa mm Iowa's financial house was not in order and that we need to focus on jobs and and the economic issues. I had to answer a lot of questions on that issue, but my focus was always on the goals that I've already spelled out and we've talked about here before. Jobs and raising family incomes, making our education system the'best, reducing the size and cost of government. MS. CONLIN: Would you tead him the question back, please? (Requested portion of the record was read.) A. I disagree with the Varnum case, but I respect the fact that it is the law because it was decided by the Iowa Supreme Court. COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (vmao DEPO 0F TERRY BRANSTAD) - 232 Q. Were you for or against retaining the judges who decided the case? A. I specifically chose not to take a position on that. I think it?s important for me as governor not to try to influence people's decision on that as governor. I have the responsibility to appoint judges, and.I don't -think it would be and it?s a secret ballot on retention. I think it would be inappropriate for me to state a position. I know that Bob Vander Plaats, who was my opponent in the primary you know, that was a big hot?button issue that he focused on consistently. That was not my focus. He also said that he was going to overturn it with the_exeoutive order. And I said clearly I think that is not appropriate and would not be something a goyernor ought to try to do. Q. Well, in fact, you cannot overturn a Supreme Court decision by executive order, can you? A. I have said that. And I "m And I took a lot of heat for that from a lot_of people that wanted it and believed that that could happen, HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 233 but I had the courage to say exactly what you said during the primary campaign against Bob Vander Plaats. (Exhibit 71 was marked for identification.) Exhibit 71 is an editorial from the Iowa State Daily of October 13th, 1995. .it talks about Lieutenant Governor Joy Corning's upcoming conference on diversity. Do you remember that conference, by chance? A. It's a long time ago. I don?t really remember it, no. Q. Okay.' It says "Branstad balked at giving his full support to the conference due to the inclusion of issues of serual orientation.? Was that true or false? A. As I said, I don't recall. Q. Okay. Do you remember a man named Bill Horn? A. Yes. Q. Okay. He was a representative of the Report, a publication which deals with issues of sexual orientation; correct? A. I don't recall that. i think that COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO 9390 OF TERRX BRANSTAD) 234 Was he the one that served a term on the Des Moines School Board? I think-that's where I remember him from. Q. No, I don't think so. He says "We're for diversity. We?re for multi?culturalism, but it shouldn't include sexual behavior." Did Do you agree or disagree with that? A. I didn't take a position on that. And frankly, I'm not sure that I?m aware of who that is. I mm you know, I guess maybe I thought he was somebody that served part of a term on the Des Moines School Board. Q. I haven't seen anything that indicates that to me,_but it may well be possible. (Exhibit 72.was marked for identification.) Q. Exhibit 72. MR. First of all, for the record, Exhibit 71 is an editorial from the _Iowa State Daily. Is that the university newSpaper? M3. CONLIN: Yes. MR. Okay. COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY 235 MS. CONLIN: I said that. Q. There is 72, which is.from Bleeding Heartland, which bears the headline "Terry Branstad's Family Values." And I didnit me Did I give it to you? A. No. MR. Oh, I?m sorry. You gave me the original. MS. CONLIN: Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I MR. Not a copy. There. I've given the governor the original. MS. CONLIN: Here, let me give you a copy. Okay. There you go. MR. Thank you. Q. This reports and directly quotes some things that you Said in your race of 2010 and specifically in an interview with a man named Dorman. And he asked you why you were uncomfortable with samemsex marriage. Do you remember this interview that you did with Mr. Dorman? A. No, I m? I don't. Q. Well, ii quotes you as_saying, "Well, it's got to do with the whole structure of the COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288~4910 (VIDEO DEPO 01'? main: BRANSTAD) 235 American society; _And a lot of people say when other ancient societies have gone this direction, it was the beginning of the end of their society. Because, the*building blocks of really having stabie culture is really having one man, one woman marriage." Did you say that? A. Yeah, I think I could have said that. Q. Okay. Do you believe that.today? A. Yes. I Q. It also quotes you as saying in answer to the question "What do you say to a gay couple with a child who wants that same stability?" mm you say "1 don't have any problem, I just don't think it has to be a marriage. .I just don?t. I guess my feeling is marriage is an institution .that was and has.been recognized for generations as a.contract between one male and one female. I think it should stay that way." Did you say that? A. Yes. Q. Is that still your opinion? A. Well, the Court has basically changed_ that, so legaily_in the state of Iowa we have gay marriage. And i accept that is the law of Hunazwvnueaa COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288~4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRX BRANSTAD) 237 the state. Q. That was also the law of the state in 2010, Governor, when you gave this interview, was it not?' MR. Well, I think you also have to read everything else that's attributed to him in here. MS. CONLIN: I?m trying to read it-all. MR. You've picked out a number of quotes, but this is a complete document. And also, whoever is writing this said that "You might infer that," speaking of Governor Branstad, "he?s against homosexual relationships, but you'd be wrong." MS. CONLZN: George, I?m reading his direct quotes to him. A. Right. But you're not reading the whole quote. Q. I'm going to read you, believe me, the whole quote. And before I do that, however, I want to establish for the record whether or not you agree with what you said in 2010, at a time when gay marriage was, in fact, legal in Iowa, COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY assassin) 238 just as it is today. A. Well, I think I was asked about the historical context. And mm And the circumstances in twenty ?w 2010 were that And I don't know when this was, if it was before the primary or after the primary. Actually, it?s itfs before the primary. It's before the primary. And I'm doing battle with mm with Bob Vander Plaats, who mm this was his hot?button issue, And I guess I answered questions from the media, but this was not my this was not my focus. Q. Okay. Well, but you did answer these questions and you are quoted in this article as saying that you don?t have any problem but you don't want gay people to be able to marry; right? A. I want to treat everybody with respect and dignity. And I accept that the court of the state of Iowa has has ruled that gay marriage is legal in this state and the governor does not have the authority to overturn that with an executive order. And although I.took a lot of heat COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 239 for taking that position, that was the position that I took. Q. Okay. Well, that was not exactly the position that you took in 2010 in this interview, however; correct? A. Well, you've got to have the whole context of the_whole campaign. And you should have sat through those debates that I had with Bob Vander Plaats and all of the abuse that I took because I refused to go along with his violent we his strong antigay position. My position has never been that. I am not Bob Wander Plaats. Q. I know that you are not, Governor, but I'm specifically asking you a question. There's a quote in this article. And that quote says don't have any problem, just don't think it has to be a marriage." A. My preference would be that He that we did something that recognized the gay people without having it be recognized as the same as but that?s not what the Court ruled, so, you know, that's not my preference, but that's the law. Q. Okay. You go on to say, according to COURT REPORTERS, LTB. (515) 288?4910 (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY emerge) 240 this article, don't have a problem with people that want to live together and raise a child and things like that. In fact,_Grace Copley,_who was my clerk for years, or.my secretary when I was lieutenant governor and governor, she has a son who's gay, and he and his friend have adopted children and are raising the children. _And Grace is a very conservative religious woman. It was a very difficult thing for her to deal with when they this became the situation. But they did. And she still is not someone who is supportive of gay marriage, but she's certainly supportive of her children and grandchildren." Did you say that? A. Yes. Q. Do you agree with mm Do you agree today that A. First,.1 have the greatest respect for Grace Copley. Grace Copley was my executive assistant for a long time. She now lives in the state of Washington, where all three of her grown children are. And I remember going through what she went through and this situation with her COURT LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 241 son, and have the greatest respect for for Grace. And And I think I was just trying to Show my empathy for her and her family. Q. Do you still agree with what you.said in 2010? A. I said I accept the law. That is the law today because of the decision made by the Court. Q. Well, that's what you believe today, but do you believe that it's okay for people to live together and raise a child but they just don?t get the stability or the word "marriage"? I mean, that would be your preference? Well, that's compound. Stability and marriage. We're getting Mm We're getting compound here. MS. CONLIN: You're right. MR. SO ask him one question at a time. MS. CONLIN: Yeah, I will. Q. Governor, I read you a quote. And my question to you is do is that what you still think? A. Weil, the whole situation has changed. And you know what?s happened in the courts in HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 238*4910 (VIDEO 3220 OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 242 state after state. IThe The state laws have been overturned by the courts. And-so we have a new situation in this country today, and 1 think it's something we have to accept. Q. What ancient societies fell when they began permitting, guess, gay marriage? A. Well, from my knowledge, this was something that was part of what I had heard about the Roman empire. I Q. Okay. ?The Roman empire permitted gay marriage? A. Well, I'm-not I'm not sure that mm these are the kind of things that I guess that I We that I?d heard and from different sources. Q. Okay. MR. And, Ms. Conlin, you know, if you're the very next quote he says, "Well, I don't think people should be discriminated against." Okay? MS. CONLIN: I'm not George, going to get there. MR. Well, you've gotten beyond that with some of 4? some of year questions, so I think to be fair to the REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 (Vinmo DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 243 governor, this has to be put into contest. MS. CONLIN: The governor has exactly in front of him what you have in front cf you, and I am about to ask him that question. Q. You do favor civil unions; is that correct? A. Yes. Q. And you favored civil unions in 2010; correct? A. Yes. Q. And you say don?t think people should be discriminated against. And, you know, certainly recognize the situation as far as the hospital and things.iike that." Tell me what you'mean by "as far as the hospital." A. Okay. There was concern that if you had a gay couple that the that the spouse, the significant other, would not be able to be in the hospital with somebody "w somebody that might be terminally ill or somebody that ?w becauSe they're not considered a spouse. Q. They couldn't even get in to see the person, necessarily; correct? A. Well w" Well, it's my understanding COURT REPORTERS, (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEED 0F Team:- BRANSTAD) 244 that was one of the concernswant to be sensitive and treat everybody right and fairly, but at the same time, I'd also respect the religious teachings as well.. And And so vae been trying to do what I think is is the right thing to do and also respect the strong religious feelings of a lot of people as well. Q. If_you would turn to page 4 of 5, this is the Tuesday update, a statement issued by Mr. Albrecht, who was at the time your press person; Correct? A. Yes. Q. All right. He says that you say that you "support marriage as-only between one man and one woman and believes the people of Iowa should have the opportunity to vote on an issue of such importance, as_they have in Bi other states." Is-that what you said? A. Yes. Q. And is that what you believe now? A. Well, I've always believed that it was wrong for the Court to do this unilaterally and- felt that this is the sort of thing that should COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288f4910 (VIDEO DEPO 0?s TERRY BRANSTAD) 245 be done through the "w the normal legislative process. And But the only Way to change it is by giving the people an opportunity to vote on a constitutional amendment.' Q. Do you still think that's something of importance that "u that Iowa peeple want We would be entitled to vote on the Civil rights of a minority? A. Well e? Q. In other words, people mm A. I guess my feeling is WM and and I think the people of Iowa felt strongly enough about it that We that they took three people off the Supreme Court. That says the people of Iowa feel very strongly that this is an issue that they should have had a voice in. Q. Okay. You As I understand it, Governor, you're telling me that you believe that the people of Eowa have the right to vote on whether or not the rights of a minority should be respeoted; is that correct? A. No. What said is the people of Iowa have a right to vote on constitutional amendments. And so it's up to the legislature COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 est (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY BRANSTAD) 246 to decide, And they have to pass it in two general assemblies, two different general assemblies, before the people of Iowa have an opportunity to.mw to have that kind of a vote. Q. Based on this article, in the Tuesday update by Mr. Albrecht you also believe that "Any adoption should be in the interest of the family and child and we have provisions within the law that provide for this: it is vital that every child has only the very best, safe, reliable and nurturing environment that society can provide. The governor believes that only in very rare circumstances could that standard be met by samewsex adoption." Is that what you authorized Mr. Albrecht to say on your behalf? A. Yes. Q. and is that what you believe today? A. Well, I as I said, there are circumstances where I think I think the best was to have a mother and a father in the home with the children; also know that there are children that are raised in single~family homes and there'are children that are raised as Grace Copley's grandchildren have been raised, by her COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288"4910 cc; (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 247 son and ~w and and his his companion. Q. Okay. So Mr. Godfrey and his partner could adopt,'based on your views? A. Yes. Q. Mr. Albrecht also says on your behalf that you do not beiieve in statewsanotioned civil uniohs. Do you see that? A. Where is that? Q. Right at the bottOm of page 4 of 5. A. Okay. Q. IDid you ?w Did you say that? A. I don't reCall that I said that, ho. Q. Okay. A. You know, he said that. I'm not doubting that he might have said that, but I don't think I've ever said that I was opposed to civil unions. Q. Well, so if Mr. Albrecht said that "The governor does not believe in statewsahctiOhed 'f civil unions,? he was not saying something that you approved of? A. Well, I don?t recall the MM the specifics of that. I just recall, you know, our focus, remember, the context of this Q. I remember. HUNEYMVAUGHNIKXEHFREPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO IDEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAB) 243 A. Okay. Q. I just want to know what'e true and what?s not true. 15 it correct that you do believe in statemsanctioned civil unions and.that was your position in 2010? A. - Well, it?s really irrelevant because the Court has made the decisioo its made and the law is the law. Q. Do you or do you not believe in state?sanctioned Civil unions? A. We now have marriage. So it really makes the question of the civil unions basically a moot case. But in 2010 you were campaigningu And .did you say as a part of your campaign that you did not.believe in civil unions? A. I think_I said that Q. Statewsanotioned civil unions. . A. that I did that Civil unions is something I'didn't object to. Q. Well, it says right here "The governor does not believe in state?sanctioned Civil .unions." A. I Well, that?s not to say that every HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 (VIDEO DEPO or many 249 every newspaper item is correct. There?s a lot of information that's unfortunately miscorrect mm that is not correct in the newspaper. This happens to me all the time. And I don?t try to correct every wrong impression that's in the newspaper. Q. This is apparently a press release put out by Mr. Albrecht on your behalf. But I as I understand what you're telling me, Governor, this is not something that you said or believed? A. Right. Q. And it's not something that you said or believed in 2010. So Mr. Albrecht was off on a frolic of his own?? A. Well, I just ?m I just know that my communications directors, press secretaries have to answer a lot of questions from the press all the time. I think they do generaliy a pretty good job, but not we they're not perfect, and I'm not sure that they've always gotten my position exactly correct. Q. Okay. Does WW Does your base include people who supported Mr. Vander Plaats in 2010? A. My base? I represent all the people of Iowa. I don't look at it as a base. In fact, I HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288w4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 250 just won an election with 98 counties. So I represent all the people of Iowa, not just one faction or one group. I Q. Okay. Do you do things and say things in a primary that you then don't do or Say in the general? A. No. That?s the difference between me and a lot of other candidates. If you look at what I went through.running against Mr. Vander Plaats, I kept the'focus on the issues that I cared about. Jobs, improving family incomes, restoring Iowa's leadership in education, reducing the size and cost of government. Now, I have an opponent who is focused on these hot?bottom social issues. And the media asks me these questions, so day after day i.have to answer_them. But I never lost my discipline and focus to keep the focus on the general election issues and why I felt I'd be a better governor than Mr. Culver. (Exhibit 73 was marked for identification.) Q. Exhibit 73 is another article that?s from Cityview from a column called CiVic Skinny HUNEYWVAUGEN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY 251 on February 2nd, Zle. Did you ever see this article? A. No. Q. It seems to have to do with the very same interview that you did with Mr. Dorman that we talked about in connection with Exhibit 72. You are quoted as saying in this article "Children" I believe mm and believe that this is attributed to your interview with Mr. Dorman. "Children who grow up in a stable relationship where they have both a father and a mother are more likely to succeed, not to say single parents can't raise children that end up being successful, but if you look at anything, juvenile delinquency, teenage pregnancy, just about any factor, drug abuse, whatever, it's less likely to occur if you have a stable, what we call normal home situation where you have a. father and a mother to nurture the children." Did you say that? A. Yes. I WM And I think that is correct. I think the statistics bear that out. MR. And also ?m And alSo, while there's no question to answer, you started in the middle of this document. He HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 252 says mm It says "Terry Branstad wants to make one thing perfectly Clear." MS. CONLIN: You can ask him anything you want, but I'm going to ask him what I want from these articles. Okay? When When I?m done, then you can ask him anything that you want to. But in the meantime i?m going to ask him the questions that I wish to ask him. MR. Well we MS. CONLIN: And I haVe finished with that article. MR. You can choose how you want to spend your time, that's fine, but you are taking this out of context. The very first thing he says is don?t think people should be discriminated against" and don't have a problem if people want to live together and raise a child." MS. CONLIW: Are you done? I move to strike the comments of Counsel as totally inappropriate in the context of a discovery deposition. Q. Exhibit Depo 66, this is from the deposition done of Mr. Godfrey by your attorney. It quotes the party COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288~4910' cc; (VIDEO 0390 OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 253 MS. CONLIN: Well, don't you have your own things? Q. It quotes your party's platform, the Republican party platform, "which, among other things, opposes 'the teaching of homosexual behavior as a normal or acceptable lifestyle in our public schools.'" That Republican party platform is from July 21, 2011. Did you agree or disagree with that statement in the party's platform? A. I diSagree. And, in fact, I just went through a campaign where we replaced the leadership of the party and got back more of stable people in "w in key positions within the party. Q. Well ?w A. So I em I can tell you that I don't agree with every platform in the party. Q. The platform "w A. Planks. Q. m" as quoted in this article on July 21, 2011, also says "Sexual orientation should not be allowed to be a basis for any school clubs, such as the Gay Straight Alliance, at any level of the public school system." HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288~4910 (VIDEO 9290 OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 254 Do you agree or disagree with that statement? A. I disagree. I disagree. Q. You and the lieutenant governor speak annually at The Family Leadership Summit; correct? A. Yes. Q. You are listed as a host of that summit; correot? A. Yes. Q. Bob Vander Plaats is the president and CEO of The Family Leadership Summit; correct? A. Yes. I want to make it really clear. I speak at a lot of gronps. And I also have continued to sponsor the the conference that has the governor's name that involves antibullying. And this has been initiated by, to a great degree, the gay community. I've taken a tremendous amount of heat from Mr. Vander Plaats and from his organization, and I have refused to cave to their pressure to withdraw the governor's name from that. I have also sponsored two very inclusive governor?s summits on bullying. And COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY BRANSTAD) 255 I?ve continued to pursue strengthening our antibullying laws. So I believe in treating people with respect and dignity, and I "w I Speak to groups that don?t necessarily agree with every single thing that they advocate. MS. CONLIN: I move to strike the voluntary comments of the governor. (Exhibits 74 and 75 were marked for identification.) Q. Governor, Exhibit 74 and 75 are the 2014 documents from The Family Leadership Council. You did go and speak to them this year; correct? A. Well, I e? the lieutenant governor and I spoke and left, yes. Okay. In the year 2014? A2 Yes. Q. How many peeple attend that conference? A. Oh, there's a huge attendance. It was at Iowa State University. And I suppose there may have been a thousand people there. Q. All right. You have never spoken at the governor's antibullying conference; correct? A. No, but I've hosted the governor's COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO 9390 OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 256 summit on bullying, and we have had huge attendance at both of those events. And then I've also had meetings at schools around the state of Iowa to try to build_a broad?based consensus to strengthen our antibullying laws. Q. But you hate never spoken to the governor's conference on antibuilying. I'm not sure I've got the name exactly right, but IA. No, but I was pressured to take my name off of that, and I didn't do that. (Exhibit 76 was marked for identification.) Q. Exhibit 76 is November twenty Well, I'm not sure, Governor. I think that this is just quite recent. And it has to do with Adrian Peterson.and you and Bill Horn. It goes It suggests in the middle of the page mm A. I don?t know what connection I have with either Adrian Peterson or Bill Horn. Q. "Horn, a former sports broadcaster in California, ran an organization by the same name," and that was called Straight From The Heart Ministries, "that publicly denounced the gay community. He also produced a graphic video titled ?The Gay Agenda,? which questioned the COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 (VEDEO DEPO OF TERRY 257 notion of homosexuality." And he moved WW he was We he recruited Green Bay Packers defensive end Reggie White to campaign against gay rights in Iowa, and then he moved to Oklahoma. "On November 17th, 1995, the Des Moines Register reported that 'Governor Terry Brahstad is helping raise money for Bill Horn, Midwest direCtor of the controversial antigay organization known as The Report.'" Do you recall whether or not that was correct? A. I have no recollection of that whatsoever. Q. "Christina Martin, the governor's press secretary, said Branstad lent his name to the_ effort to raise money for Horn as part of a breakfast fundmraiser earlier this month organized by officials of KVI, West Des Moines." Do you remember whether or not that was true? A. I don't recall. Q. Apparently, according to this article, you wrote the following, according to the HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 283-4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY 258 Dee'Moines Register. "In the last year, Bill Horn has been one of the staunchest defenders of those values. I first met Bill at Cross .Trainers, a Christian men?s group, last year. "Bill was responsible for bringing the public's attention to one of the most controversial proposals ever made by public school officials in Iowa. Our schools are places where our children should learn the traditional academic courses and how to use new technology. "One of the most disheartening and disturbing things for a parent is when public schools contradict the values we teach our children at home. As parents, we.have a responsibility to not only teach our children values, but to take an active role in shaping the public policy that affects them." Do you remember_the proposal that you were weighing in against at that time? A. No. This is 1995? Q. I think so, yes. A. _Hum? Q. Yes, it's 1995. But you don't w? But you don?t remember what HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD- (515) 288?4910 (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY BRANSTAD) 259 A. No, I don't remember the proposal at that time. As I said, my-recollection of Mr. Horn was I thought he served a partial term on the Des Moines School Board, but, you knowcorrect in that. Q. According to Mr. Yepsen, "Horn made public a proposal to teach tolerance of homosexuality in the Des Moines Public Schools and was instrumental in the successful effort toI oust Jonathan Wilson, a gay member of the of the board." Does that refresh your recollection as to what you were speaking about in connection with this writing? A. You know, I really don't haVe a recollection of this. Q. All right. (Exhibit 77 was marked for identification.) Q. I Did you have any role to play when Jonathan Wilson was nominated to serve on the state Board of Education? A. Not to my knowledge. Q. Exhibit 77 from April 17th of 2013 'reports Senator Guth's View of homosexuality COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 '21' 22 23 24 25 cc; (vanao 1:35:90 03?? TERRY BRANSTAD) 260 which he suggests_poses health risks to heterosexuals. Governor, do you believe_that homosexuality poses any health risks to heterosexuals? A. Not to my knowledge. Q. Do you believe that many civilizations have fallen because the traditional family was not protected? A. Well, I'm not going to go try to you know, I'm not an expert on mm on ancient history, so Q. All right. Do you agree with Mr. with Senator Guth?s statement that the mm A. It's Guth. It?s Dennis Guth is the w~f is the senator. Q. All-right. All right. I'm sorry. Do you agree with Senator Guthls View that the homosexual lifestyle is a lie? A. No. Q. Do you agree mm A. . And I will say that, you know, I do know Senator Goth, and I do know that he was a strong supporter of Mr. Vander Fleets. mAnd so we don't agree on these issues. HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 I (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 251 Q. Mr. WM Senator Guth also argued that homosexuality, like "u like secondhand smoke, is a health danger to heterosexuals, but you disagree with that? A. Yes. of All right. (Exhibit 78 was marked for identification.) Q. Exhibit 78 is the current Republican party platform to which you just referred, I believe. A. Well, I referred to the change in leadership of the party, not to the platform. Q. Do you "n Are you familiar with the current Republican party platform? A. No, I'm not.? And the platform is basically a statement of the principles that the majority of the delegates subscribe to. Q. Under one of the planks "w And I didn't print the whole thing off here, Governor, because I just chose the one that I wanted to ask you aboutincluded the first page so that you would know where it came from. And the second page is a one (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO nape OF essay BRANSTAD) 262 lof the planks on life. And it says, number 3, "We support an amendment to both the U.S. and the Iowa Constitutions defining and supporting the honored institution of marriage as the legal union between one natural man and one natural woman." Do you agree or disagree with. that? A. Well, that is the position that the majority of delegates took, that is the position that's in the platform, but I also know that that requires approval from both houses in the general assembly and a-vote of the people. Q. I know what it requires also. I?m asking you whethet or_not you agree with the statement that's in the Republican party platform today. a. Let?s put it this way. I support giving the people an_opportunity to vote on it. Q. That's'not what-this says, however. This says that you A. understand that's what the party platform says, but my position is 1 think it?s a_little different from that. And that is that I believe the people should have an HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO peso or TERRY BRANSTAD) 263 opportunity to vote on this. Q. .But you do not support an amendment to both the 8.8. and the Iowa Constitutions defining and supporting the honored'institution of marriage as the legal union between one natural man and one natural woman? A. I'm only one person, and I respect the responsibility to enforce the laws of the state of Iowa and the country. Q. I understand that, Governor. A. And end I know the Court has made that decision, but I also respect the fact there are a lot of people who would like to have an opportunity to vote on this issue. Q. Do you oppose an amendment to the U.S. and the Iowa Constitutions that defines marriage in the way set out in the platform? A. I don't. Q. Do you support that amendment? A. I believe that people should have an opportunity to vote on that. Q. But my question isn?t whether or not they should have an opportunity to vote. My question is what you support. Do you support an amendment We COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288~4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 264 a. I have not advocated on that issne. Q. Do you have any position on that issue? A. I have mm My position has been that people should have an opportunity to vote on it. And I have not tried to influence that, nor does the governor have a role in that. That_reqnires two general assemblies and a vote of the_peopie, and it does not come to the governor. Q. I understand it doesn?t come to the governor, but as the governor, aren?t yon expected to take positions on issues of public' interest, like constitutional amendments? A. No. In fact, 1 think it would be inappropriate for me to try to influence decisions on things like retention of judges or constitutional_amendments. I believe that the people of Iowa should make their own decision based on their -conscience on.those issues and that I should not try to use my influence or the position of .governor.to influence their mm their decisions. Q. Besides Chris Godfrey, are there other executive officers who are homosexual? A. Yes. Q. Who? HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 265 A. Yes. And he does a great job. And I work directly with him. Q. Did you select him? A. Yes. I Q. Were ~m Were there'other candidates? A. He was And this is who he recommended. And we interviewed him and chose him. HUNEYHVAUGEN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 266 He's got a great work ethic. He's done a phenomenal job. We hear nothing but good MS. CONLEN: I move to strike the governor?s voluntary statement. Q. Did Did you know at the time that you selected him that he was gay? A. I I believe so. Q. Okay. A. It's never really been relevant, as far as I?m concerned- 1 don't make those kind of judgments. I'm interested in somebody's'work. ethic and their ability, and mm and I've never judged people on that. Q. How do you.know he's gay? A. I've been told by members of my staff that mm that he was that he?s gay. Q. Were you told that before or after you lowered Mr. Godfrey's salary? A. Well, this was done at the time he was hired. So it would have been right at the HUNEYMVAUGKN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288"4910 (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY BRANSTAD) 257 beginning of my administration. it would have been_before. Q. Besides His there anyone else that yoo that we that is an exeCutive officer or department head or a person you appoint who?s gay? A, Well, you know, I don't know, and I have not inquired. I have worked with a lot of gay people. I worked with a number of gay people, both faculty, staff, and students, when I was the president of Des Moines University. So I?ve never had a problem working with gay people. Q. Q. And And when was that, Governor? HUNEYMVEUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 17.(vxnao DEPO or" TERRY BRANSTAD) 26? Q. Okay. Was he openly gay A. Well, I don't recall. And it'e? it really doesn't make any difference because that's never been a subject that I've asked or talked to people about. Q. How do you know that he's gay? A. Because he has informed me of that. Q. All right. You said that your staff people told you that was gay; correct? A. . Yes. Q. Why we Why would they tell-you that? A. I don't know. For some reason that information was was was told to me; but it wasn't really relevant. We was the best person for the job, and he?s done a phenomenal job. The.lieutenant governor feels the same way I do. We're very, very pleased with COURT REPORTERS, LTD.. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 269 his work ethic and his ability to work with everybody. He's played a very key rOle on a lot of issues for us, MS. CONLIN: I move to strike the governor's voluntary statement. Q. Have you, to'your knowledge, appointed members of the gay and lesbian community to any job other than during your term that A. I don't ask those questions, so I'm not sure, but it's certainly I'm sure there are plenty of gay people that have been appointed and serve on various boards and commissions and serve in my administration. Q. 'was someone you also mentioned. When did he work for you? A. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 cc; (VIDEO DEPO 0F TERRY BRANSTAD) 270 As A. We're still very close friends. Q. I'm assuming that was not openly gay until at least pretty recently; Would that be correct? A. Q. All right. And ~w And who is Sue Huppert? A. Sue Huppert is the "w married to Judge Huppertthe person COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288"4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 2'71 that replaced Steve Churchill as the person that?s in charge of development at Des Moines University. I Q. And Judge Huppert is a judge that you appointed; correct? A. No. He was appointed, I think, by Vilsaok. He?s a district court judge. Q. Okay. At the present time, aside from and aside from are there any other members of your administration who are openly gay? A. Like I say, I don't ask that question, so I don?t know. Q. Well, if they were openly gay, wouldn't you know? Only if people came and confided that in me. I don't ask the question, so I don't know. And And I don?t ask people about what they do in their private life. Q. Is A. I'm interested in what they do on the job. Q. Do you believe that homosexual behavior is morally wrong or morally right? A. I don?t make judgments. I believe in HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 238-4910 (VIDEO DEPO 0F TERRY BRANSTAD) 4'72 treating everybody with respect and dignity. Q. .Do you believe that people of faith suffer more from bullying than gay people do? I A. No. II think just about everybody suffers from bullying. We did a survey that we among Iowa students that answered this survey. Over 50 percent of them felt they'd been bullied. So all kinds of people get bullied. You get people that get bullied because of their size, because-of their sexual orientation, because of various and sundry things. There?s all kind of reasons why people get bullied. And it's really difficult today because of the social media. Q. Have you ever met with Judge Huppert personally? .Professionally? .Socially? A. I know Judge Huppert. Yes, I've met with him socially and and not Hm I have never had a case with Judge Huppert, so I've only really known him socially. Q. All right. A. But I knew his wife before they were married. Q. You have been quoted as saying that there are political litmus tests that shouldn?t COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (vao DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 273 occur. What political.iitmus tests do you believe should not occur? A. Well, I guess I'm one that tries to be open and and consider all things, and and so'I guess I think litmus tests is mm all kinds of litmus mm litmus tests are wrong. So I "w think'you need to be open?minded and mm and consider the w? the totality of the circumstances and not make a judgment just based on one factor. I Q. Did you discuss Mt. Cramer's ?m Mr. Cramer, the person that you appointed to the Board of Regents, did you discuss his View on gay rights with him? A. No. Q. Did you discuss the Iowa Civil Rights Act with himhis position on gay rights known to you? A. No. i basically know him as a bridge contractor who's done a lot of work. And mm And, in fact, if you recall a few years ago when that person was rescued from "w from the Des Moines River, that was one of his employees COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 2'74 that did that. So ?nd But I do know that he is involved with - and and is a friend of Bob Vander Plaats. Q. Is mm Is His view_on gay rights is something that became controversial. And the quote that I read you about political lit?us tests was something that you are said to have said in consection with his appointment. A. Right. Just like I don't think somebody should be denied the opportunity to serve on the Board of Regents because they're gay, I don?t think somebody that has strong religious views should be denied their right to serve either. Q. HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288w4910 (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY BRANSTAD) 275 Q. A. Q. Okay. A. But seeJr that's the difference. I really "m I really want to treat everybody with respect and dignity. And whether they?re openly or not, to me that shouldn't matter. We just should judge people based on their performance on a professional basis. And I don't want to create problems for anybody. I THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Ms. Conlin, I need to change the tape. Off the record ending Tape 5 at l548. (A recess was taken.) THE VIDEOGRAPHER: On the record beginning Tape 6 at 1601. HUNEYWVRUGKN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 276 Q. Governor, when did Sue Huppert become your executive assistant? A. Sue Huppert has never been my executive assistant. Q. Oh, what is she? A. She is the development director at Des Moines University. Q. Oh, I seedid hire her at Des Moines University, and she became the vice president for development and slumni relations after Steve Churchill took this job with the AMA. And Steve has recently gotten another position with a medicai?related foundation'ih Q.. Sue Huppert doesn?t work for the government? A. No. Q. She A. She works for Des Moines University. Q. Okay. 90 you Was she there when you came or mm A. No. 2 hired her mm She had worked for Xerox. And I had known her_for many years. And I hired her at Des_Moines University, and mm and HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 277 then she was then promoted to the vice president for development and alumni relations when Steve Churchill went on to the AMA foundation. Q. Was she married when you hired her? A. No. Q. Okay. She got married to Judge Huppert during the time that she worked for you? A. Later. Well, I?m trying to think if it was during the time that she worked for me or ?w or maybe even later. Q. Did you ever discuss with Judge Huppert at any of the social events anything regarding Chris Godfrey or workers' compensation or anything like thatcorrect that on January 12th, 2012, you said "We have a number of cdurt cases where they?ve said the workers? comp commissioner is biased against business"? Did you say that? A. I think I?ve already said that several times. Q. On January 18th, 2012, you?re reported as saying "The governor said his staff has compiled a number of cases in which Godfrey has HUNEYMVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO mac OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 2'78 been ?biased against business.'" You said that too? A. Yeah. We've been over this many times. So yes.- Q. Okay. When Mr. Albrecht speaks to the press, is be speaking on your behalf? A. He's the communications director. It's his responsibility. And, you know, we get induiries from the press all the time. Q. Okay. And he?s speaking on your behalf when he speaks to the press. Is that a correct underStanding? A. Yes. Q. Do you have an Understanding aboet the meaning of the word "bias"? A. Yes. Q. Okay. What is your understanding? A. Is that somebody is not fair, that they're leaning in one direction and becomes an advocate for one party as opposed to being a neutral. Q. Can you name any case, even one case, where the Court said that Commissioner Godfrey was biased against business? A. Well, I was briefed on a number of HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 cc; (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY BRANSTAD) 2'79 cases where there were quotes from district court judges and n? and even from Rosemary Sackett with regard to either Mr. Godfrey his deputies. Q. Can you name any case where any court said Chris Godfrey was biased against business? A. Well, I don?t know what the exact quotes were, but there is there are quotes directly from judges that would ~m would indicate to me that he was not being objective towards employers. Q. Do you know of any case, however, which said he was biased against business? A. You know, this is basically stating what I understood, whether that was the exact term that was used, but there were a number of cases, about a half a dozen cases, that that was made aware of, and two or three of them where the judges had pretty strong language about where they felt the commissioner or Wm or one of his deputies was not fair and was taking the claimant?s side. Q. Okay. That?s not what I asked you, Governor, and that's not what you said. You said We or you were quoted as HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO 132190 OF. TERRY 230 saying, and I believe you have admitted and, in fact, l?ve heard you say that the workers' compensation commissioner is biased against business. I And what I?ve asked you is whether or not you can name a single case which 'actually says that. Can you, or can you not? A. Well, I had a lot of business people tell me that. Q. Did you rely on those business people in cutting his salary_and asking him to-resign? Is that what you relied on? A. No. I relied on what I heard from business people, I relied on what I heard from attorneys, I relied on what-I what I saw in the Oregon study of workers' comp premiums, and. .I relied on some of the statements made by judges on the record. Q. Okay. MS. CONLIN: Would you read him back the question, please? (Requested portion of the record was read.) A. I've answeted that by saying that I relied on much more than that. HUNEYMVAUGKN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY 283'- (Exhibit 79 was marked for identification.) Q. Exhibit 79 is a compilation of clippings prepared by Mr. Centers. Do you get these morning clips? A. Yes. Q. Do you review them? Most days I at least look at some of them. 9. Okay. A. All these are is w" is basically my communications director giving ee and the staff an indication of what is being said in the media. Q. Okay. And do do these come to you once a week? A. No. Daily. Q. Oh, all right. A. During weekdays. I get them on my on my phone. -Q. And Mm And these are things that you review? A. I get them on my BiackBerry. As I said, not always, not all of them, but I usually at least it's nice to know what's going on HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 10(VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 282 and what's being said all over the state by the media. And so we get this information, and I think it's helpful. Q. Governor, you told me that you did not have a smartphone, but apparently you do. A. I have a Black?erry, not a Q. That's a smertphone. A. It is? Q.. I think so. A. I don't know. It?s just an old?fashioned Blackberry. Q. It's not a dumb phone. A. My mm My staff people have a lot more sophisticated things than that. Q. Well, I A. just have an old?fashioned BlackBerry that I've had for a long time. Q. Can you get e?mails on your BlackBerry? A. No, because I don?t have an e?meil I address. Q. IWell, Governor, somehow you get this document. This is Exhibit 79. A. Right. Q. It is, in fact, an ewmail._ How does it come to you on your on your Blaokaerry? HUNEYMVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288~4910 (VIDEO DEPO 03' TERRY 283 A. Well. it does come to me on my phone. Q. How does it do that?- A. Well, I don't know. There's an app for that. Q. All right. You indicated that you kept some of the mm A. 80 there's an app on my phone. If I click on that app, then this comes up. Q. Okay. That's mm Thexe's an icon of some kind that you click on that ?w A. Well, I think they call it an app. But yeah. Q. All right. But you do not have an e?mail address? A. I don?t. Q. And you don't get e?mails on your phone? A. I don't get e~mails. Q. Can you get text mm A. And I don?t text either. 1 don?t text. Q. .All right. You are quoted as saying that you kept several of Culver?s appointments,- including Terry Rich, Iowa Lottery chief executive; is that correct? A. Yes. He was He did He did HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY BRANSTAD) I 28% resign, and then I did interview him and determined that he was doing a good job, and I chose to keep him on as director of the Iowa Lottery. He?s a great marketer.? Q. Do you know whether or not he's gayAnd you were also quoted as . saying you kept Donna Mueller, Is Mueller the correct way to pronounce that? A. Yeah, Donna Mueller. Yes. Q. She was chief executive of the Iowa Public Employees Retirement System; correct? A. And she.still is. Q. And she is also not gay; correct? I don't know. I don't know on "m in either case. Q. Well, Governorindividual is openly gay, is that something that you can.avoid knowing? A. Well, I don?t ask, and I don?t know. And I don't frequent gay bars and things like that, so, you know a? I'm just interested in their job and how they do and how they perform their job. HUNEYHVAUGKN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288"4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 235 And w? And with these individuals I review their job performance and what they?re doing and mm and how that impacts our goals. Q. Did you authorize Ms. Findley and Mr. Boeyink to threaten the plaintiff if he refused to resign? A. No. Q. Did you authorize Defendants Findley and Boeyihk to tell the plaintiff if he didn't resign that his salary would be cut to the minimum permitted by the legislature? A. We've been over that before, and I made it clear that 1 said that they should give him an opportunity to resign, and he chose not to resign, and then they informed him that I'd made the decision to take him from the top of the salary scale set by the legislature to the bottom. I - Q. If, in fact, there was no threat involved, why wasn't he simply notified by e?mail or letter or something like that that his salary was going to be out? A. Well, we wanted to do the courtesy of giving him the opportunity to resign. and I thought that was a courtesy and something that HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288~4910 $(VIDEO 93:20 or TERRY BRANSTAD) 286 should be done before he was informed of the decision that I had made with regard to his salary. Q. Goeernor, I have recently been given a long answer *H_a.supplemental answer to Interrogatory Number 4. MS. CONLIN: And, you khow, let's go.off the record for a moment. THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Off the record at 1613. (An discussion was held.). THE VIDEOGRAPHER: On the record at 1615. Q. Governor,r with respect to the interrogatory answer recently provided to me, did you We did you.write that interrogatory answer? 1 reviewed and approved the interrogatory answer. Q. Okay. Who wrote it? A. I think this was worked with our legal counsel. Q. ,All right. But you thoroughix reviewed it and approved of everything it said? (515) 288*4910 3.(VIDEO DEPO or TERRY 287 A. Yes, I did. Q. Did you make any corrections to it? A. Maybe minor corrections. Q. Okay. Nothing major? A. Nothing.of any mm what I would call of any substance. Q. All right.- And when you made We when you signed your name to it, you swore that this was the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth; correct? A. Yes. Q. All right. Let's go on "w While we're waiting for a copy of that document, let's move on to the to Exhibit 80, which is a [Exhibit 80 has marked for identification.) Q. 80 is a document that's been provided to me as something having to do with Mr. Godfrey's performance. Have you seen this before? A. No. Q. Do you know who Ciel is, "Jim wanted me to send you this copy for your information. Thanks." A. I think that's Representative Clel HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 (VIDEO new OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 288 Baudler. Q. Oh, all right. And then can you see who signed it? A. The The company is Cardinal 16, which I'm familiar with. It?s a company that makes glass. It?s in adair County, in Greenfield. Q. ._Okay. This is'a letter from the plant managerr James Miller, with respect to Mr. Godfrey; correct? A. This is the first time I?ve seen it. Q. Oh, you have not seen it before? So it's not something that you relied on in lowering his salary? A. No. 'No. No. Q. Who on your staff would have been me A. .Weil, I'm sure you know, a lot of letters are sent to me at the governor's office, and they are reviewed by and handled by members of the staff, so mm Q. Who would A. Whoever m? Whoever would have been assigned to thie particuiar area would be the one that would have handled it on the goyernor's staff. COURT REPORTERS, LTD. '(515) 288"4910 (VIDEO 9390 or TERRY swamp) 289 Q. One of the things that we have not discussed is your View aS'to whether or not people who are in this country without doCuments should be or should not be covered by workers' compensation. Do you have a View on that? A. i don't think I've stated a position on 'that. Q. Do you have a position_on that? A. Weil, I?d want to study it carefully before stating a position. Q. One of Mr. Miller?s objections is to the fact that people he calls illegal immigrants are covered by the workers' comp system. But that is not something that you relied on in terms of your attempt to get Mr. Godfrey to resign or mm A. Well, if you'll notice, the date on this is January 18th, 2012. It was after the fact. Q. Okay. Attached to the letter is a mm is a brief written by the lawyers for Cardinal Glass. I assume that you also did not see that; correct? I did not. I have visited that company on a couple different occasions, but I don't HUNEYHVRUGHN COURT REPORTERS LTD . (515) 288w4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF mam: 290 remember having seen this particular document. Q. All right. When When did you visit the company? A. I know we did this year. And Doug from the We the Carroll paper I'm trying to think of his last name. He recently brought this Greenfield paper, and he was there, covered our visit. I think Ciel Baudler might have been with us too. The lieutenant governor may have been with me. But this is a company that's a good company that emplOys a lot of people in the small county of Adair County in Greenfield, Iowa. (Exhibit 81 was marked for identification.) Q. Let me hand you what has been marked Exhibit 81. This Me One of the things that 1 asked in my request for production of documents was for all of the documents that constituted the complaints that were made to you and on which you relied for your decisions. And this is the first one that was provided to me. Do We Did you ever see this before, Governor? HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (Sq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 291 R. No. Q. Do you know anything about the facts of this case? A. I really don't know. Q. Do you know who Mr. Elliott is? He's the deputy MM A. This is the Cardinal 1G case? Q. Yes. A. It says he's a deputy workers? comp commissioner. Q. Not somebody that you know, however? A. No. Q. Do you know whether or not his decision We his arbitration decision was appealed? A. I do not. Q. This was a part of what Mr. Crozier's em I'm sorry, Mr. the plant manager sent to you, as I understand it. A. Yes. Yes. Q. All right. A. And as I said, I also personally visited this plant and "m and met with the employees'and and met with the plant manager. (Exhibit 82 was marked for HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288"4910 (VIDEO DEPO 05? TERRY BRANSTAD) 292 identification.) Q. Exhibit 82 is a letter from a woman named Laura Ostrander. Have you ever seen that. before? A. No. 9. Okay. This is the next series of the complaints. And this is marked COMPLAINT816 through 31. And she complains to you about a decision from the Division of Iowa Workers' Compensation. She tells you that she has practiced workers' compensation law in Iowa and that she was aware of the ongoing conflict between the executive branch and the Division of Workers' Compensation and attached a decision called Hancock versus Wei?Mart Stores and American Home Assurance Corporation. Did you ever review that decision? A. No. Q. Do you know whether or not that decision was appealed to the district court or I don?t. Q. Do you.know anything about the facts of HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY 293 the case? A. No, I don't. Q. Would it be proper for you to rely on the facts of a particular case to take adverse action against any employee of the state of Iowa? A. As I said again and again, these decisions I made were based on the requirements that were given me under the law to review the performance of the commissioner of workers'- compensation. And I relied on the totality of the information that I received from many different sources. (Exhibit 83 was marked for identification.) Q. Exhibit 83 is, I believe, the very meeting that you told me abont earlier with Griffin Pipe Company. A. Umwhum. Q. Note the date of that, Governor. It came long after you decreased Mr. Godfrey's salary; correct? A. Yes. Absolutely. Q. All right. Why are they meeting with you? HUNEYMVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO 9390 OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 294 A. Well, because we are interested in trying to save those jobs in Council Bluffs, and we are hearing rumors that this company is considering closing the plant. And so they shared with us why they were looking at closing the Iowa plant rather than the Virginia plant. If you look on page 2 of this exhibit, you can see where the costs "m that we are way out of whack in competed to the Virginia plant. and they me you know, Amsted is the is the parent company. That's who we met with in Chicago, Debi Durham and I. And they owe both the the Griffin Pipe and the Griffin Wheel Company. And they had two plants in Iowa, ahd subsequently.theyI?? they closed the one in Council Bluffs. I have Visited both ?4 I've been to the Council Bluffs plant a couple different times. IUhfortunately that was recently closed. I?ve also been to Ameted?s Griffin Wheel plant in Keokuk as well. Q. When did the Council Bluffs plant close? A. I think it was in 2014. Q. And this meeting that you had, who He HUNEYHVAUGEN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 (VIDEO 1:33:90 015' TERRY BRANSTAD) 295 who did these notes? Do you know? A. I think Well, Debi Durham and I were the ones that attended the meeting. Q. Did the lieutenant governor attend as well? A. I don't think so. Q. Okay. A. it was an economic development trip, and we also attended a Chicago White Sex. baseball game at the time. And so actually what. we did as an economic development project, we host companies that were trying to get to either expand in Iowa or locate in Iowa and u~ at different functions. And this was ~e But then we also have a series of meetings along with it. So we hosted a number of people at the ball game, and then we had a meeting with them on this same trip. And this was one of the meetings that we had. We had several other meetings as well. Q. Okay. This occurred at 10:15 in the morning in Chicago; correct? A. Yes. Q. On August 9th, 2013? A. Yes. HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 25' cc; (VIDEO 13an or TERRY 296 Q. Look at the last page. if you would. Governor. There are some handwritten notes. Do you mm Can you tell me who wrote those notes? A. I don?t know who wrote those notes. Q. And one of the other things that I understand you do not know is whether or not the ?w the Virginia laws are comparabie in any way to Iowa?s laws; correct? A. I just know that the basio philosophy of workers' comp is pretty much the same in all states, but the specifics of the laws vary. (Exhibit 84 was marked for identification.) Q. Exhibit 84 is a document dated ?October 16th from a Davis Brown'lawyer whose name is Jeffrey Baker. Is Mr. Baker someone that you know? A. No. Q. Have you ever spoken with Mr. Baker? -A. I may have met with him. I may have met him. .You know. there's a lot of lawyers in the Des Moines area, so and Baker is a pretty common name. So I don?t want to say that I don?t know him,.but I donit really recall him._ Q. He offers to be of assistance in the HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288"4910 (VIDEO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 297 selection of a new commissioner. Have you taken him up on that offer? A. No. Q. He's a lifelong Republican and would enjoy seeing our state's businesses treated fairly. "Regardless of who is eventually selected to replace Chris Godfrey, it's my hepe that we will be dealing with someone ~w somebody that gives at least a fair shake to our state's' great employers." That?s Me This is not a letter that you saw and it's not a letter you relied on; is that correct? A. Well, this "w No, this is not a letter that I ?m that I've seen or relied on. No. Q. And no one has brought it to your attention? A. No. Q. All right. (Exhibit 85 was marked for identification.) Q. Exhibit 85. Let me give you this one. I don?t I?m not sure who Larry is, but I think it might be Larry Johnson. He's on your staff; correct? HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 10(VIDEO 3321190 OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 293 A. Deputy legal counsel on the staff. Q. ?ll right. And I don't know Who Nicole C. is, but it appears as though this is from ABI. Would that be a correct understanding? I A. Well, it says at the top here. Q. I Yeah. That?s why I thought it was from RBI. Did you ever see this? A. No. Q. Did you rely on it in any way in your decision?making with respect to Chris Godfrey? A. No. Q. Are you familiar with the deolaratory judgment order pertaining to surveillance in Iowa? A. No. All of these things happened after the meetihg with Chris Godfrey that occurred in July of 2011. ihis is 2012. Q. I know that, Governor. And what I asked for were the complaints that you relied on, and this is what I got, so This went to Larry Johnson. Did you ever discuss it with Mr. Johnson? A. No. KUNEYHVAUGEN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288N4910 ?391 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY sag-memo) 299 Q. Exhibit 85. A. Now, I think I've told you time and time again what I relied on. (Exhibit 86 was marked for identification.) Q. 86 is a letter to the editor by Mr. Is that something that you have seen? A. i don?t remember it. Q. He addresses the problem of workers' compensation and the proposed reforms the legislature is considering and says that "Iowa has one of the most generous benefit systems in the country. While at one time Iowa's system was viewed as a model around the country, it now appears headed for a crisis due to a combination of antiempioyer court rulings and an increased number of claims." That?s one of the things that you heard as you went around the state; correct? A. Right. Q. "Many multistate employers specifically identify the costs of workers? "u worker compensation in Iowa compared to other states they do business in as a significant factor when (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 300 making business decisions on expansion and relocating." That's something that you have told me is true; correct? A. I?ve heard that from a lot of people, a lot of sources, yes. Q. And when you ran the first time, did you ever hear anything about workers' compensation when you ran in mm A. In '82? Q. In ?82 and mm and the various times that you ran between '82 and '99. A. In 1978, when I was running for lientenant governor mm Q. I Yeah. *w that's when I heard a_lot about unemployment compensation and how fair unfair that was, that we had people that voluntarily quit that were getting unemployment benefits. And we had a very bad system, and so I campaigned on reforming that. And when I was elected lieutenant governor, back when the lieutenant governor was president mm president of the senate, I actually personally got directly involved in writing the changes and the HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288~4910 Ct; (VIDEO ease or TERRY BRANSTAQ) 301 reforms that we made in that law at that time. And when I first ran for governor in the '80s, our workers? comp system was working very well and our a" we were one of the lowest cost states. It was only in the 2010 campaign that I was really hearing a lot of concerns about that, about workers? comp. Q. So when you ran in your first stint as governor between 1983 and 1999 you did not have complaints from business about workers' compensation insurance premiums and mm Very few compared to some of the other things that we dealt with during_that time. And that time some of the issues that came up was property tax on machinery and equipment and some other issues that were detrimental to business that we addressed. I mentioned while I was lieutenant governor we addressed unemployment. I think we also made some improvements in that again when I was governor in the '80s. And then we addressed the We the tax on machinery and equipment, critically important to attracting capital~intensive industries to the state. COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 302 And since we made that change, and David Lyons helped me do that, that really has made a_big difference. Q. Okay. I MS. CONLIN: Would you hand the governor his answer to Interrogatory Number 4? A. Okay. Q. And if you would turn, Governor, to the second page of that answer. A. Okay. Q. In the second paragraph A. About the governor's school? Yes. "The group of newly elected governors at governor school were told that you can build loyalty but you can;t make an incompetent_person competent.? 'Is it your_position that Chris Godfrey is incompetent? A. No. Q. What is the purpose of that statement? A. _The purpose of that statement is to give guidance to new governors not to just pick your political friends but pick competent, wellwgualified people to do the job, because you can?t build competence, but you can build HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 303 loyalty. And so I've always tried to follow'that admonition that I learned at the first governor's school that I went to in Park City, Utah, in November of 1982. Q. Okay. Would you look at the third I'm sorry the fourth paragraph? A. Yep. Q. You're taiking about what we've talked ahout'many times, but mm A. Yep. Q. in the middle of the paragraph it says "Upon further inquiry and investigation." What investigation did you do into the allegations made by the Iowa employers and their representatives? A. Well, I had my staff well, Brenna Findley, you know, reviewed some of the-court- cases and mm and gave me a briefing on what the judges had said in some of the district court and Court of Appeals decisions. And I also received additional information from Jeff Boeyink and other members of the staff. Q. You did not conduct any investigation yourself. You relied on your staff to do that; COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 304 correct? A. - Right. and that's generally the way I always do thihgs. Frankly, I have such a demandihg and busy schedule that between meeting with people and being acoessibie to constituents and going throughout the state, I do rely on staff to do the background types of investigations and then to brief me and get me the information so I_can make a weil~informed decision. Q. "It also," you say, "became clear to me that Mr. Godfrey did not share my goal of lowering the cost of doing business in Iowa and that he did not share my goal of creating a favorable attitude with job creators about doing business in Iowa." That?s what you say in the fourth paragraph; correct?_ A. Right. And that?s what I was hearing Consistently as I traveled the state, whether it was companies like Cardinal 1G that I visited or Griffin Pipe or whether it was companies like BPI or trucking companies. You name it. From all over the state that?s what I heard. Q. It's your position that Mr. Godfrey did RUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288"4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 305 not want more jobs for Iowans; is that correct? a. It's my position that the decisions that were being made under his leadership in workers? comp was driving up the costs of workers? comp, making us less competitive with. other states, and hurting our ability to compete. Q. Do you have any information that would tell you that someone else that you appointed to this job would make different decisions? Unless you told them to do so, of oourSe. A. Well, you can't tell people what to do, and their decisions have to be made on the individual facts of the case. And each m" each "u each case is different. And mm And I just want to make sure it's fair and that businesses are treated fairly, as well as claimants. And in my previous time, 16 years as governor, through consistently through that time, even though our benefits were very generous, our costs were very lowthis we have a chart that shows what's happened under Mr. Godfrey?s leadership. And you see HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 306 that Iowa has gone from being very low to being very high and in terms of our workers' comp costs. And in comparison to other neighboring states that we compete, our costs have been going up from 2006 to 2012, while others have been flat or even going down. Q. Is it your position that Mr. Godfrey did not want more jobs for Iowans? A. That was 9. That was my question. A. mm the result that I saw_?? It's one of the factors that companies look at in where to locate. And as governor, I've got to try to deal with all of the factors, whether it?s taxes, unemplOyment, workersT comp. And workers' comp was one that was going in the wrong direction while a lot of other things were going in the right direction. We're reducing the tax and regulatory burdens, we?re making Iowa more attractive, we have more aggressive and effective economic development people, but our workers' comp costs are going the wrong direction. and the chart shows it very clearly. HUNEYHVEUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 307 9. Governor, I'm running out of time here, and I'd be very grateful if you would not be repeating all the things that you've already told me. A. Well, don't repeat the questions, I won't repeat the answers. Q. I'm not repeating the questions, Governor. I?m asking you very specific questions about different issues. What percentage of job growth -calculus is workers' comp insurance? A. I don't think there's any way to calculate that. Q. Do you know whether it's more or less than nealth insurance? A. No. There?s no way to know that. Q. Do you know whether it's more or less than insurance to cover vehicles? A. No, I don?t ?m Those I don't think there's any way to The only thing I know is what I'm hearing from the business community and the decision?makers that are deciding where to locate a business or expand a plant. And they're saying that Iowa is going in the wrong direction. HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO 1:35:90 OF TERRY 308 I mean, we have the Griffin Pipe example where they specifically gave us the facts. Here?s Iowa Q. Governor, that was after Me A. Here's mm Q. you made your decisions; correct? A. Well, yeah. But I was hearing.those same kinds of things from all kinds of other people long before._ I heard_that in the campaign, I?ve heard it in the first six months that I was govetnor, and I've continued to hear it ever since. Q. Okay. Did Google mention workers' compensation insurance tates.when iocating their data center? -A. Actually, Google had already chosen Council Bluffs before I became governor, but I'm proud to say we've gotten Google to do a number- of expansions. And we've also gotten Facebook. That was a long negotiating process with Facebook. Debi Durham did a phenomenal job working with Aitoona on that. And we?ve also recentiy_had an expansion of Microsoft here. COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288w4910 (VIDEO DEPO 0s TERRY BRANSTAD) '309 Q. Governor, did Google mention workers? compensation insurance rates when deciding where to put their plants and whether mm where to do expansions? A. Not to my knowledge. Q. Okay. Did ?4 A. I would say With Google a real key factor was the fact that we generate a lot of our electricity by wind energy, and they wanted to be able to say that that mm they have this very heavy use of MW of electricity, and they wanted to say that it was green, that it was renewable. And And I think that also was a factor that helped us with Facebook as well. Q. Did Facebook mention workers' compensation insurance premiums when deciding where to locate their data center? A. Well, only Debi Durham or the economic development people could answer that. They had more detailed discussions with them. I had a few meetings with them. I played a key role in w? in obviously encouraging them to choose Iowa, but a lot of the nitty?gritty discussions were made with the HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (53.5) 288-4910 (VIDEG DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 310 economic development staff. Q. Did Microsoft mention workersf compensation insurance premiums in discussing with you A. Again, the same answer. It?s up to The economic development staff worked with them, and they went over all the details. And-most of these companies, they look at everything. They_?? They look-at I unemployment, they look at workers' comp, they look at taxes, they look at utility costs, they look at regulations. So it's a whole myriad of factors that go into it. Workers'_comp is one of them, but there's many others as well. We?ve been successful despite the fact that the workers' comp costs have been going up and we've been less competitive. Q. And in terms of the we Did Did orascom, to your knowledge, the fertilizer ?w Orascom, did they mention workers' compensation' insurance premiums ih deciding where to locate their plant? A. No. Well, again, I don't know the details of that, but I can tell you that a big couae REPORTERS, LTD, (515) 288?4910 (VIDEO 13sec OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 311 factor for them was the fact that Iowa didn?t have the debt load that Illinois had. Illinois has got the most debt per capita of any state, state and local, and they have the worst unfunded liability system. So we basically sold them on the fact that in Iowa things are good and they're going to get better, but in Illinois things are bad and they're probably going to get worse because of all these liability issues they have hanging over their head. Q. Did the fertilizer plant that located in Sioux City mention wOrkers? compensation insurance premiums when deciding where to locate their plant? A. Again, the economic develOpment department, Debi Durham, was.directly involved in that. And that was a great success to get that expansion from Industries. 1 don't know the details, but I do know that they, like all other companies, look at the total costs of doing business in the state in choosing where to locate. We had the advantage, they already had a plant there, and expanding it with the infrastructure in place HWY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 312 gave us an advantage on that one. Q. The The We've talked about the decisions which you mention at the bottom of? page 14 and the beginning em and the top of page 15. And those are the decisions that you've- already mentioned to me; correct? A. Let's see here. Q. Right at the bottom of page mm A. The bottom page mm A. Yes. This talks about the meeting that Lance ?orbach and I had with the Iowa self?insured association. Q. No. This talks about "2 did hear many such examples." A. This is the bottom of 14. I'm reading Ithat paragraph. Q. Okay. A. That's what this is about. It's about that meeting. did hear many such examples. Some of the decisions that were causing concern and that I would be later briefed on by Brenna Findley were brooght to my attention at this conference"; correct? HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288~4910 (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY BRANSTAD) 313 A. Right. This was the meeting when I was running for governor that was attended mm that was "u we were invited by Todd Beresford from tyson Foods. It was a large meeting that had a number of lawyers and businesses representing the Iowa self?insured association. And Lance Horbach and I spoke and answered questions and heard a number of concerns about workers' comp from the attendees there. And some of those same concerns Brenna Findley provided Court documentations from judges' decisions that basically confirmed what we'd heard from these attendees. Q. Did you ever handle a workers' compensation case when you were in private practice? A. Not to my recollection. Q. Do you have any background in workers' compensation law? A. Well, you know, I I learned about workers? compensation when I was governor, and I've dealt with the subject in the legislature as lieutenant governor and governor. And obviously in our economic development efforts it's one of the costs of doing mm doing business HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 10 11 12 13 14 .15(VIDEO DEPO or TERRY BRANSTAQ) 314 factors that we that we deal with. But, you know, I haven't practiced law since 1982. And I don?t recall handling workers' comp cases while I was in .praotice. Q. Is it your understanding of the law that for an injury to be oompensable it must it must arise out of the employment and be sustained wm_. A. In the oourse_of of employment. Q. No. Arising out of the emponment and in the course of employment. A. Yes. Q. Both_of those things. A. . Out of and in. And that's where some of these concerns arer Decisions like, for instance, buying clothes for work when you're not at work. That's, in my opinion, not out of or in the course of employment. Q. Do you know what the opinion of the Supreme Court is on that issue? A. I don't. Q. Okay. Do you Can you explain to me what it means to say that an injury arises out _of employment?_ COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 315 A. I think the whole reason why workers' comp was established was so that if somebody gets injured on the job, that instead of having .to go and prove that was the fault of the' employer, they can get compensated and their medical-costs paid for without having to prove fault. Even if they?re at still entitled to receive compensation. That?s the difference than you have through the judicial system, where you have to prove liability and ?w you know, through the tort system. And so they made a special exception and carved workersI comp out as w" as something that would be a less costly and more effective way to deal with injuries that occur in the workplace. Q. As a part of that bargain made back in the 1900s, did workers give up anything in terms of what'they would have been eligible to receive? A. I think they gave up the right to sue. So instead of suing and maybe getting a bigger settlement through the tort system, they mm and LTD. (515) 288w4910 (vxDEo DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 315 then the and the employers had to give up the issue of fault. Even if the employee was the person that caused the injury, they were still- entitled to compensation. _It's my understanding. that was basically the bargain that was reached, you know, early. Q. Did ?m Did employees give up the right to collect damages for pain and suffering as a part of that bargain? A. Yes? That's something that you would have had through the tort system but is not a part of the workers? compensation system. Q. Can you explain any further the concept of arising out of employment? A. Arising out of employment would be m? well, it?s ?t it means it's got to be related to your your work and_your responsibilities at work.- Q. Cray. What about.in the course of employment? What do you mean by that? A. It means while you're working, not while you're off duty or in the evening or weekends, where you might be doing recreation or shopping or skiing or whatever. Q. All right. COURT REPORTERS LTD . (515) 288-4910 cc; (VIDEO DEPO or" TERRY BRANSTAD) 317 A. SO'you can't get workers? comp coverage for what you're doing on the lake on the weekend or something like that. Q. Are you aware of how the Iowa Supreme Court instructs a? instructs on how cases are to be interpreted by the workers' compensation commissioner? A. Like say, I've never tried a workers' comp case, and I don?t know the inatruotions. Q. Earlier in the deposition read you some case law with respect to giving the workers' compensation m? Let me start again. Earlier in the deposition I read you some case law about a liberal interpretation of the Workers' compensation laws to favor the employee. How does that fit with your attempt Ito have a pro business plan in Iowa? A. Well, we've always had to deal with the Court's interpretation of the law, so it's the law. Q. What I Maybe I'm not making a very clear question. Can you interpret the workers' compensation law liberally and in favor of the employee and still create a WW a business HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, (515) 288*4910' _,22 23 24 25 cq. 33390 OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 318 friendly climate? A. As long as w" Well, I think we've been able to historically in this state, but it?s been moving in the wrong direction in recent years. Q. Okay. When you wrote-your initial request to Mr. Godftey to resign on December 3rd, 2010, was that letter sent to others who had a set term of office and who had been confirmed by the Iona.Senate? A. Yes. Q. We've talked about Mr. Neil, but any we anyone aside from that? I A. Yeah. Well, we mentioned we Q. We mentioned A. Mm Terry Rich, I think, Tom Gronstal, Donna_Mueller would all be in that category,.in addition to Dave Neil, Jim Forney. So there were a number of them in that categoiy. They all received the same form Iletter. Q. Is it your understanding that the reason that Mr. Godfrey is suing you and the sole reason that he's suing you is because he believes that you singled him out because of his HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY BRANSTAD) 319 sexual orientation? A. Well, I guess that's what I understand the lawsuit is about. I think that's not true, because I have never singled-anybody out because of sexual orientation, and I didn?t know that he was gay at the time that the decision was madef Q. Did you ever prOVide Mr. Godfrey with a performance evaluationthink that you indicated A. Nor do I do that for other department heads either whose salaries I set or other division directors. Q. You generally meet with the others; correct? A. Some of them and some of them not. Q. Ali right. You were unaware of Mr. Godfrey?s background at the time that you asked him to resign; correct? A. I was aware of his performance, and I had heard Well, and we've gone through that again and again, so I won't repeat it. Q. Okay. I A. But HUNEYMVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. 288-4910 Cq' (VIDEO 9290 OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 320 Q. I think that you have basically said to me that you did not know many of the things that I have told you about Mr. Godfrey's background; correct? Like that he represented defendants for the same amount of time that he represented claimants and things like that. A. Right. And 2 don't know that that's really relevant. What What is important to me was his record as the workers' comp commissioner and the direction the state of lowa is going and the impact it was having on our competitiveness to create jobs and grow the economy. Q. Governor, what are the job responsibilities of the workers? compensation commissioner? .A. -Well, he is the'one that is_in charge of administering the law and e? and choosing the deputies and and and making sure that it's -fair and balanced and treats both the claimants and the eeployees fairly. Was he qualified for that position, in your_opinion? ori?i I think he's qualifies: Q. Do you_think that you sufficiently COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288m4910 ac; (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY newsman) 321 understand workers' compensation law to responsibly evaluate his performance? A. Yes. My predecessor wasn't even a lawyer, and he still did it. You don't have to 'be a lawyer to do it. Q. I?m not suggesting that. A. That is the responsibility that the legislature has given to the governor, to evaluate the performance of the people that are in that particular class and em and based on the responsibility that they have and then to set their salary within that range. Q. Can anyone who has represented an injured injured worker be a fair commissioner? A. Sure. Q. The people that you have appointed to be workers' compensation commissioners in the past, between '83 and '99, we've talked about Iris Post and Bob Landess. Can you remember who else you might have appointed? A. Well, i can't remember all of them, but I will say that, you know, I did choose a director for the Civil Rights Commission. Q. We've already talked about that. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288"4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 322 A. Right. So you've heard that. Q. Yes, I have. A. So you know that. so Q. And I never_asked any question about the Iowa Civil Rights Commission. A. No. But the point I'm making is I'm not prejudiced against.somebody just because they?ve been a representative of plaintiffs. So I'm I'm willing to look_at the person and f? and make an evaluation and make a decision based on who I think_would be best to do the job. Q. How would a workers? compensation commissioner go about proving that he or she was, quote, on your team? Well, I think in the way they answer the questions. We would intend to interview people for that position and look em we would also probably iook_at their experience and background and mm and do an interview. Q. Okay. That's for the upcoming vacancy; Correct? A. Right. Q. All right. Well, how would Mr. Godfrey ever have proven to you that he was, quote,_on your team, end quote? HUNEYMVQUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 (VIDEO lasso OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 323 A. Well, we had'a meeting. Q. I know. A. And w" And in that meeting it didn't come across very weil. He was very, I would say, cembative and very dismissive of the concerns that we had expressed. Q. Chris Godfrey was combative with you? A. Well, he was he was basically denied pretty much everything that w~ that we we brought up. Q. Do you know whether or not his denials were factual? A. Well, it?s my understanding that w" you know, again, I made a judgment based on the infOrmation that I had. And I did not have the authority to terminate him. I've terminated w? 1 have terminated a number of people from employment in highmranking positions in state government, but his was a term for years, and so my responsibility was to set his salary within the mm the scale within the parameters the legislature gave me. Q. I don't think you answered my my question, Governor, but let?s move on to the COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 324 bottom of page 15. wanted to have my team on the field in key positions across state government, including on the Board of Regents." Had the former regents not resigned, what would you have done? A. They didn't resign. Q. What did you do? 'They.didn't resign. l.asked if they would let the new appointees take over the leadership positions. And they agreed to that. Q. Okay. A. So they MW they Hm I did not ask them to resign,.but I did say that I wanted new leadership for the Board of Regents, and they- agreed to we to that. Q. What if they?d.said no? What wonld you have done? . A. Well, it was up to the Board of Regents. So I had really no authority to requirelit.l fhe regents themselves elect their own leadership. And the regents chose new leadership, and the new leadership helped us select over the over time the new president of Iowa State and the University of Northern HUNEYHVAUGHR COURT REPORTERS, (515) 288~4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 325 Iowa and mm and freeze tuition, and I think great things have happened. Q. And Me And did the Several of the people on the Board of Regents did resign. Bonnie Campbell They MM A. Bonnie Campbeil is still on the Board w? Board of Regents.- Q. Okay. A. Excuse me. Her term expired. Q. Yes. A. But we But you still have Ruth Harkin on the Board of Regentsknowledge, nobody resigned from the Board of Regents. The chair and the vice chair agreed not to seek to be in those leadership positions and elect the new leadershipAnd then the regents as their terms expired were We were replaced. Q. Did you make any comments to any Let HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 .25 (VIDEO DEPO 0F TERRY BRANSTAD) 326 me start again. Did you meet personally with any members of the Board of Regents to ask them to step down from their leadership positions? A. Yes. Q. With whom did you meet? A. The The David I forget his last name, that was the chair at that time. .9. Okay._ And am I met with him personally. Q. All right. Did you Did you make any comments about funding for the University of Iowa in connection with Mr. His name is actually David Miles. A. David-Miles.l David Miles. I don't remember discussing the funding for the University of Iowa. I did like the idea of having a present regent who was an Iowa State University alumni become the Chair of the Board of Regents. Craig Hill. Excuse me. Not Craig Hill. Interesting, Craig Hill, who is now the president of Farm Bureau, is we is the Craig from w" from that mm that became the Chair of the Board of Regents, HUNEY-VRUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288~4910 10 3.(VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) - 327 and then he was the one that was responsible, you know, to oversee the process of choosing a new president for Iowa State University. Q. Did you ever make any comments to anyone'?? A. Craig Lang. Craig Lang is the name I was looking for. Q. Did you ever make any comments to anyone about what might happen to the budget of the.University of Iowa if they refused to step down? A. No. No. Q. And the new regents were Craig "w Was it Craig Lang who you appOinted? A. Craig Lang was already appointed by Culver. Q. Okay. A. I asked him to become the chair. Q. All right. A. I um I appointed Bruce Rastetter, and I appointed the lady from Carroll. Her name is Carol. And And the woman that?s the superintendent of schools at Linn?Mar, who is the vice chair now. But originally it was Craig Lang and Bruce Rastetter that became the chair HUNEYHVEUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF 328 _and vice chair of the regents. All right. Okay. THE Off w? MS. What do you want to do? MR. Just keep going. VIDEOGRAPHER: Off the record ending Tape 6 at 1703. I I (A recess was taken.) .THE VIDEOGRAPHER: On the record beginning Tape 7 at 1712. Q. Did Do you know,Mr. Tom Iles, who is with John Deere? A. Yes. Q. - Did he ever complain about Chris Godfrey? A. I don't recall that he did. Q. Did he ever support Chris Godfrey, to" your knowledge? A. I I don?t recall that either. Q. Do you know Chris Scheldrup? A. Chrie Soheldrup?_ Q. Um?hum. What's the context?m Q. he?s an attorney in Cedar Rapids-who KUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 283~4910 (VIDEO DEPO 0s TERRX BRANSTAD) 329 represents mostly employers, as I understand it. A. I may have met him. I don't.know him well, no. Q. Okay. He Is he someone who complained to you about Chris w? Chris Godfrey? A. Well, he could be. There are a lot of people that did. And, you know, 1 travel the state extensively, I hear from a lot of people, and I oanlt really tell you names of everybody. Q. Did you ever look at Chris Godfrey's personnel file? A. No. Q. Let's return to page w? Are you on page 17? A. No. I'll go to 17. Q. Okay. MR. Did you say 17? MS. CONLIN: 17, yes. MR. Okay. Thank you. A. Okay. Q. And in any situation where in every case you have a winner and a loser, that would be trials and workers' compensation proceedings, is it a surprise that the people who lose might not be favorably disposed towards the HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288W4910 .(VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY 330 decisionmmakers? A. No. @hat's not a surprise. Q. Okay. The e? The Have you had any complaints about judges who decide workers' compensation cases on appeal? A. Very few. Q.- Okay. A. There have been some. Q. What We Can you remember anything. specifically? A. Well, I just remember some people saying some of the court decisions have mm have also impacted the costs; Q. Well, the the district court and the Court of Appeals and the Supreme Court's decisions with respect to workers? compensation would be broader'than the deciSions of the workers?f compensation commissioner; correct? A. Well, they?re at the appeal level. But it's my understanding that the workers' comp commission has a lot of discretiOn in in making decisions. Q. Okay. But when the Iowa Supreme Court deCides an issue with respect to_workers' compensation, that applies to-the whole state of (515) (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY 331 Iowa; correct? A. Right. It's on the record, and the appeal is on the record, and it's something that applies to the whole state. Q. I Okay. That would also A. It?s It's a binding precedent. 9. That would also be true of the Court of Appeals; correct? A. Yes; Q. And when they affirm workers' compensation cases, they do impact jOb creation in Iowa; correct? A. Yes. Q. What ambitious goals did you have in place for the Division of Workers? Compensation that you were planning? A. Well, actually, the ambitious goals I had were creating jobs and raising family incomes. And we just wanted to make sure that all aspects of government were working together to try to help us achieve that. And u" And every department head and basically everybody in leadership positions in the state government knows that has been the focused and very disciplined agenda of this HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 '(VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 332 administration. And we've had significant success. Q. Explain how you determined that Mr. Godfrey was, quote, dismissive of your assertions. A. Based on the interview that we had in December and MW and the way he responded to that. That was not only my opinion but that of the lieutenant governor and Jeff Boeyink as well. Q. Did After Mr. Godfrey left the meeting did you have a discussion with Mr. Boeyihk and Ms. and Lieutenant Governor Reynolds? A. Well, I?m sure we we had some discussion about it, yes. Q. What was the nature of that discussion? -A. Well, I think we were disappointed. Unlike the m? the meetings we had with David Neil and-with Mr. Larson, we didn?t feel this meeting went near as well. 9. Those Mm Those two meetings occurred before your meeting with Mr. Godfrey? A.- They were on the same day. I don?t 'remember the order in which they were. HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY emerge) 333 Q. All right. The We The Senate confirmed Mr. Godfrey unanimously in 2009. And so at that time he had the confidence of the entire Senate; correct? A. Well, I know the way confirmations work. I was at one time president of the_ Senate, and m" and I know how those we those things work. And basically what happens is they "w they go to the caucus and find out if there's any objections. And if there are no objections, they usually go through without any problem. Most of the confirmations are unanimous. Q. Okay. So it doesn?t mean that he had the confidence of the Senate just because they confirmed him? A. It Well, usually what happens, it's w? it's not the confidence. It's more that there weren't strenuous objections. It's the responsibility of the governor to make the appointments. And the Senate, I think, respects the fact that it is the prerogative of the governor to choose somebody they have confidence in. HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 334 And if the Senate feels a person is not competent or if there?s some major problem with them, then there might be a reason not to confirm them, but generally speaking e? and mm and i'm appreciative of that fact, because I have usually dealt with a Senate that's controlled by the other party 18 of 20 years, and we've had significant success in the confirmation process. And I think other governors have similarly had that experience. Q. Is there anything that he couid have done or said that would have given you confidence in his performance? A. Well, I think if he had answered the 'questions a little differently, if.he had'been not as dismissive of the concerns that we expressed. Q. he He denied that he was antibusiness; correct? A. Well, he denied the specific concerns that were mm that we laid out. Q. And those we you've already told me what those -- A. And I?ve talked about those again and again, yes. HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 335 Q. Okay. All right. And em And he said that?s not true; cortect? A. Yes. Q. And that was unsatisfactory to you. You believed that it was true; correct? A. Well, we just felt that it could have been handled in a much better way. And as I said, it was a contrast to the conversations we had with the other two individuals on that same day, with Mr. Larson and mm and also with David Neil. Q. Okay. The ?w Wellthis another way. Aside from promising you that he would decide all disputed cases in favor of the employer, was there anything else he could have done that would have given you . A.. Well mm Well, we w? we never would have asked for that. That wouldn't be fair and appropriate. Q. Governor, wait until I finish my question. I understand it would not be fair and appropriate, but what you're saying to him in this meeting is "You have an antibusiness bias"; correct? HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288M4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 335 A. That's what we were hearing from people throughout the state;_ Q. And that's what you were saying to Chris Godfrey} correct? A. We shared the concerns that we were hearing from constituents, yes. Q. You said that he was a person.ih a position with the workers' compensation commission where and that he was showing an antibusiness bias; rightThe experience that we had gained during the campaign, the lieutenant governor and I,.in discussing with a lot of people is they didn't feel that they mm that they had a real fair, even playing field. Q, .Okay. You've told me that before. But what I?m getting at is.what you said to Chris and I mean, did you expect that he would say "Oh, yes, I do have an antibusiness bias"? Is that what you thought he would say? A. Well, I think we've brought up some of the specific concerns they had raised with us on some of these issues. And mm And I HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT LTD. (515) 288*4910 1'(VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY I 337 remember specifically the concern I had about maintaining employer choice of doctor. Q. And, in fact, Mr. Godfrey told you that he favored employer choice of ?w of doctor; correct? A. But we?d been told that he was on record and had said that he wanted to change it to employee choice of doctor. Q.- Okay. And And that was from Mr. Gilliland? A. Well, we heard that, I think, from more than one source. Q. Okay. And And, in fact, do you have any proof whatsoever of that statement, Governor? A. Well, again, we relied on the information that ?m that we were given from "m from people whose whose opinions we trusted. Q. Okay. And they told you that Mr. Godfrey favored employee choice. Is that what you're telling me? A. Yes. And that's something I had vetoed back when I was governor before. And it's something that other states have, which has driven up made their their states less COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 log (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY 338 less competitive. .Do you recall that at the meeting_on December 29th Mr. Godfrey told you about draft legislation from 2009 that was bipartisan from the advisory committee that was, in fact, employer choice? Do you remember that he talked to you about that very thing? A. I know there was a move_in the legislature at.that time to change that. And And, in fact, there were six Democrats that voted against these job?killing labor bills that saved the state of Iowa from I think a lot of things that would have made us less competitive. Q. Okay. But do you remember that you discussed with him em A. don?t remember that, no. Q. Okay. And you still insist as you sit here today that Mr. Godfrey's position was in favor of employee choice rather than employer choice. Is that a correct understanding? A. That?s mm That?s right. That's what we had heard. Q. Okay. But you have no proof of that 'whatsoever; correct? A. Well We COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 I (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY BRANSTAD) 339 Q. Just yes or no, Governor. Please. A. To the best of my knowledge, I have no documentation. Q. And as I understand it, when you're talking to him, unless he agreed with you that he was, in fact, biased against employers or that he was making decisions that were outside the realm of the law or any of those kinds of things, you would have considered his ansWers to be dismissive. Is that a correct understanding? A. No. No, not at all. As I said, we had conversations with two other people on that same day, and their viewpoints were a little different, and yet we were able to reach what 1 felt a reasonable agreement with them that was acceptable to them as well as to us. Q. Okay. Did he tell you that he was aware of the criticisms but when he was criticized for being antibusiness at other times in the past, those who criticized him then were wrong also? A. I think he said he basically said that the people that were criticizing him were wrong. COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO DEPO 0F TERRY 340 Q. Okay. don't allow for that possibility; correct? A. Well, I'm not saying that "w Nobody is infallible, and mm and I guess but I just didn't think w? First of all, I deai with and take a lot of criticism. And I try to evaluate it and determine Me sometimes the criticism is talid and we need to make adjustments or changes and we and we do that. Q. Sometimes it's not valid and you don?t make changes. A. ihat?s true. Q. And sometimes when it's not valid you say "You're not right. You're wrong"; correct? A. Well, I think you can dO'that in a very diplomatic way. Q. I'm sure that you can. Are you critical of Chris because .he was undiplomatic? A. No. It was his record that I was. concerned about and_wm and the concerns that we had heard from many sources. Did you Did you expect him to offer specific evidence to refute the_problems identified by the employers and their lawyers? HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288~4910 (VIDEO mac or TERRY 341 A. Well, as We again, this is an impression from a meeting.that I had with the lieutenant governor and Jeff Boeyink, so there were three of us, and we all came away with the same impression, which was not faVorable. Q. Okay. The article by Jason Clayworth, which you reference on page 17, you say "Despite being part of this historical process" we what historical process are you referring to there? A. The historical process is new governors notifying people in positions like Mr. Godfrey was that they should be they should resign, giving the governor the choice of either accepting the resignation or, after evaluating the individual, deciding to not accept the resignation. 'That's something that Governor Vilsack did and Governor Culver did. And Mr. Godfrey um Actually, i think what am what Vilsack did, he even notified people that he had appointed asking them to resign, as well as Governor?Elect Culver. So they both did in that case. Q. So that was the historical process that you understood had occurred mm COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 238?4910 10(VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 342 A. That's WW That's a process that has been used not only in Iowa but I think by a lot of governors across the country. Q. .When you were the governor MW in your first time as governor did you ask everyone to resign each time you were remeieoted? No. In In a re~eleotion it usually doesn?t happen. But when a new governor comes in, especially if theylre of the opposite.party, it usually occurs. But even if they?re the same party, as was the case with Governor Culver, he did that. And mm Well, I know that as a fact because one of those department heads we ended up hiring at Des Moines University, Mary Mincer?Hansen. Q. You quote on page 18 Mr. Clayworth, _whioh I find very interesting, "The process of requesting resignations from department heads has become a relatively standard event. Former governor Tom Vilsack took the same actions as -did current governor Chet Culver." So you know at the time that Mr. Godfrey was asked to resign by Mr. Vilsack if he had been oonfirmed by the Senate? A. I_didn't know that, I just know HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 34-3 that's a standard procedure. And it's usually kind of done in a form way, sent to-virtoally "m virtually all the people that are in those key positions. Q. Okay. "As governor," you say, "I'm responsible-for the evaluation of Mr. Godfrey's performance." But it is correct that you did not perform any kind of'a performance evaluation; right? A. Well, the law specifically spells out the responsibility of the governor to set the salaries. And one of the main reasons on em on which a governor sets the salary is in evaluating the performance of the individual. Q. What A. In addition to how long they've been in the position and some other factors. But it's given the-legislature has given great discretion to the chief executive in setting the level of salary within the confines of the range that the legislature sets. Q. Did you set Mr. Godfrey's salary annually? A. I think it it's done on an annual COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 __17 (VIDEO DEPO 0F TERRY swamp) - 344 basis. Q. Okay. So you set Mr. Godfrey?s salary annually, as well as the other people? A. Well, it's my recollection, unless you're making a change, I don't know-that you have to. But generally speaking, at the end of the fiscal year is when we make those decisions. Q. Okay. And mm And you did that with Mr. Godfrey as well as the other people that you have responsibility for? I VA. Right. Q. -Did you perform the evaluatioo_on an annual basis of Mr. Godfrey? A. We continue to get feedback and make decisions on mm you know, each year. Q. Did you meet rm Aside from Mr. Godfrey, did you meet with all of the other people for whom you are responsible for setting salaries? A. No. No. No. Q. Did you meet with any of them? A. Some of the major department heads I think I met with, but most of them not. Q. Was Mr. Godfrey deficient in his production, his work keeping up With his workload? COURT LTD. (515) 288*4910 cc; (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY newsman) 345 A. I'm not aware of that. Q. I Was he deficient w" deficient in terms of the morale of the people who worked with him and the department in general? I A. .l'm not aware of that. Q. Was he deficient in any way in terms of the statistical studies that were done of the Workers' Compensation Division? A. Well, I I've many times referred to the Oregon study, which is really looked at as a comparison of the states and their competitive! position. It's done by the "w the people in the state of Oregon. And w? And that's the one that I guess is probably the gold standard that we looked at. And that's the one where Iowa had consistently been one of the lowest states in terms of our workers? comp costs and and that during his tenure it's gone in the wrong direction. It's gone up. Q. What were the levels of the deputies' salaries at the time that you lowered Mr. Godfrey's salary? A. Well, the deputies' salaries is determined by their length Of service, because HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO DEPO 0F TERRY BRANSTAD) 346 they?re contract employees. And in state government they get step increases in the early, years and then they get annual increases. And so you have a lot of people we I think Miki McGovern, who has been there for decades, obviously gets paid a lot more. Just like the governor. There?s a whole lot of people, thousands of people in.state government that mate.more than I do even though I'm the chief executive.I Q. Is it correct that when you lowered the workers' compensation commissioner's salary that every single deputy's salary was above his? A. Welly I was not aware'of that, but I'm not surprised that you have_a lot of people with a lot of longevity. And under the contract rules, that their salaries are considerablef Q. Did you reduce or take away any of his duties when you_took away his salary? A. No. Q. Were_any of the duties changed in any way? A. _No. Q. Did yoe contact the NCCI before taking away his salary on the basis that he was biased HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 238?4910 10(lg (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY swamp) 347 against employers? A. Well, no. I didn't take away anything. I had the legal responsibility to set the salary within the range. And that's what i did. Q. Governor, on July 10th, 2011, Mr. Godfrey was making $112,000. And on July 11th, he was making $73,000; correct? A. When he applied for the job, he knew it was a range and that the governor would set that range. And the previous governors had changed his salary a number of times within the range, and the new governor had every right to set the salary within that range just like the previous governors. Q. Okay. A. Instead of an increase, he got a reduction. But that?s the law and that?s the responsibility of the governor to'set that salary. Q. He had no right to rely on the salary that he was receiving. Is that what you're telling me? A. That's correct. Okay. A. The law is very clear. There is a COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO nape OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 348 range, and it is the responsibility of the governor to set the salary within that range. And that?s exactly what I didthat without changing his duties in any way; correct? .A. - Yes. Absolutely. Q. .You can do that even though he may have been receiving 40 perceht or so more on the day before.you decreased his salary; correct? Yes._.That is the law. You need to know that there are different categories and each category Q. Governor, I am very familiar with the law. A. Okay. Okay. .Q. Did v? Did you cohtact NCCI, the organization on whose graphs you relied_before 'you reduced his salary or took it away or whatever you want to say? A. No. Q. Did you contact Susan Voss? A. No. 'Did you contact the National ?5 the NASI, which is mm No. It was my responsibility, and I HUNEYMVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 283?4910 (erEo DEPO or TERRY swamp) 349 didn't feel I had to contact any of these groups. Q. You just relied on those people who have financial incentives within the Workers' Compensation Division; correct? A. No. I relied on the totality of all the information that was given to me, and I made an evaluation, and I made a decision that I felt was appropriate considering his performance. Q. You say on page 18 "Mr. Godfrey was failing to provide a better climate to lower the cost of doing business and job creation in the state of Iowa"; correct? A. Yes. Q. And he was doing that by deciding too many cases in favor of employees; correct? A. Well, I'm just saying we looked at the trend and We looked at the fact that Iowa had historically, even though we have generous m" generous benefits, been a very lowwcost state and that in relation to other states we were going the wrong direction.- And that was a detriment to my goal of growing the lowa economy, bringing more good jobs to the state. HUNEY-VBUGHN COURT LTD. (513) 288?4910 (VIan DEPO 0F TERRY 350 Q. . Okay. The way that he was interfering with your determination to provide a better climate and to.lower the cost of doing business_ in the state was by deciding too many cases in favor of employees; correct? A. Well, it was not just who he decided the cases. It was the expansion of the benefits because of certain of the decisions that were made and .94 Governor, do you know that Governor that Commissioner Godfrey eter expanded any definitions in the workers' compensation system in the state of Iowa? A. We have been provided information that said that the rulings that he and his deputies made did make it possible for people to get more benefits than was the previous position of the workers? comp commissioners. Q. Okay. MS. CONLIN: Would you read him the question back, please? (Requested portion of the record was read.) I Q. Do you know that? I don't want to hear mm HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT '(515) 288?4910 (VEDEO DEPO 0F TERRY BRANSTAD) 351 A. When you're saying "definitions" me Is that the question? Definitions? Q. Yes. Yes. A- The result is what I'm looking at. The benefits. instead of providing a permanent partial, providing a permanent or something like that. Now, there's mm these are a lot of technical terms that people that work in workerS' comp and the attorneys that mm that deal with this can certainly share with you. What I know is the resuit of the actions of the commissioner and his deputies were that the costs of workers' comp are going up. And I had attorneys telling me "I'm telling my clients you'd better settle because you don't want to take the chance of a contested case with this commissioner" Q. You've told me that already. A. 4? "because your costs could be higher." I Q. But you?ve also told me that you did not bother to look at whether or not appeals had increased or decreased during Mr. Godfrey's tenure as workers? compensation commissioner; HUNEY-VEUGHN REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 10(VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 352 correct? You didn?t bother to even look at the statistios that are easily ava?lable; correct? yWell, I didn't look at the the percentage that-were appealed. Q. Okay. And that would be easy to do and that was one of the things that you relied on in deciding to reduce his salary; correct? A. No. Q. 'Yes. .A. I didn?t rely on the number of appeals. I looked at the oosts.and the impact that it was having on the cost of doing business in Iowa. IQ. And one of the ways A. And that's_what I was hearing from all over the state from businesses of all sizes. And I?m trying to revitalize_the.lowa economy and bring more jobs. Q. Okay. What.you were being told was because Commissioner Godfrey was so biased against employers that employers were afraid to appeal to him from the deputies' decisions. IsnFt that what you just told me?. A. Or they were-afraid to even take it ?eeiorem?wdepstY- Q. Okay. That would mean we COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288"4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 353 A. But rather to decide it mm to rather just settle it. Q. Okay. That also would be something that you could easily Check, to see whether or not the number of cases that were mm that went to hearing before the deputies you could easily check to see whether or not that was increasing or decreasing;'correct? A. Well, I have a lot of responsibilities, and I, you know MM Q. I know, Governor. You've told me that before. A. Okay. Q. Mr. Godfrey had the authority to set all cases by law; correct? Set them for hearingr set them for disposition. I?m not sure. Q. Could he have used his legal authority to set all cases to refuse to set hearings until his salary was moved back to the place that it was on July 10th, 2011? A. No. I think that would be totally inappropriate. Q. He has that legal authority to set all the cases; right? HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO DEPO 0F TERRY 354 A. Well, I think that would be a malfeasance, if you refuse to do your job because the salary was set at a level lower than 'you believed you should have received. I think that that?s something that would be unconscionable. Q. Okay. So he couldn't do what the law said he could do; correct? A. What are you saying? He couldn't do what the law says he could do? Q. You say You rely on the law that gives you the power to Set his salary; correct? A. Yes. Q. He mm.The law ??_The workers' compensation law says he has the power to set hearings; correct? A. You're saying he.could just say won't set a hearing until you.give me a higher salary"? Q. I'm saying that he could refuse to set hearings until 2015. A. Well, that would mean he wasn?t doing his job. A. And I think that would be grounds for COURT REPORQERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO 1:312:90 OF TERRY - 355 removal. Q. .You say here that there are Mm Would that be retaliation on his part? A. .Well, I'm not going to speculate, because that didn?t happen. 9. Okay. But do you think that it would be considered retaliation against you if he'd done something like that? A. I just think it would be inappropriate 'and it wouldn't be fair to the claimants or mm or to the respondents who have a right to have a timely hearing of their dispute. Q. You cite on page 19 the bizarre case decisions resulting in employees being awarded workers' compensation benefits in unusual situations that in my evaluation are not the type of activity this system was designed to cover. You've told me about two. Are there any others? A. Well, I think they?re m? they're listed in this in this interrogatory response. So there's a number of them. I think there?s six SQVEIE . Q. Okay. The w? Those And the ones EUEEYMVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. '(515) 288-4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 356 that are listed in your interrogatory-answers, as it happens, they're also exactly the same ones that Mr. Beresford listed in his memorandum to yoo of July 25th, 2011. Are you aware of that? A. No, I?m not aware-of that. MR. And now that he's answered, I don?t believe that's a correct statement by Counsel. Q. The mm are these the Who brought these cases to your attention, Governor?- A. Brenna Findley. I Q. Okay. And that We that was in the course and scope of her employment with you? A. Yes. Q. . You also say that employees were being found to be permanently totally disabled when the evidence shows that they were not; correct? A. Where are you reading from? Q. I'm reading from page 19, the second bullet point. A. Yes. Q. Okay. You-also say "Delegation of important decisions to deputy commissioners when the commissioner should be making the COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY BRANSTAD) 357 decisions." Do you have examples of that to share with me? A. There are WW I don't have specifics on that, but I was made aware of the fact that that happened. Q. And what's an important decision, Governor? A. Well, I guess that?s a judgment call as to what's an important decision, but one that obviously expands the cost to MM to the employers of the state of Iowa I think would be an important decision. Q. Do you think that it?s fair to take a handful of decisions out of the thousands that have been decided while Mr. Godfrey was the commissioner and rely on those cases to try to get him to resign and to lower his salary? A. Well, we we we Well, there's mm there?s, I'm sure, many more. And these are basically a confirmation from judges of what I'd been hearing from employers and lawyers as I traveled from mm all over the state of Iowa. So these cases just confirm what I?d been hearing and what I brought to his HUNEYMVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 358 attention back when we met in December of 2010.- Q. You also say that he had poor judgment and we and a lack of required supervision of his employees. Tell me about that. A. Well, the deputies work for him. And so just as the people_that work for me in the governor's office, E'm accountable and responsible for what they do, he's accountable and responsible for what the deputies do. And some of these decisions that were made by deputies like Walshire I think were inappropriate and out of line. Q. And you think he should have intervened and corrected those decisions. Is that what you?re telling me? A.. Yes, if mm if you have an employee that's doing something like what is said here. And this is what Chief Judge Sackett had to say. also agree with the district court?s criticism of the commissioner's lack of objectivity. The district court found after reviewing Walshire's decision and the. record that Walshire lacked objectivity and overstepped his role as an impartial arbitrator of facts and became, in essence, an advocate in LTD. (515) 288~4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 359 the Rizvio position. After reviewing the record, I agree with the district court's characterization." Q. Do you know when Deputy Walshire was hired?1 A. No. Q. Do you know that he was hired by Bob Landess? A, No, I don't know that. Q. I He was hired in 1984. Do you know that? A. I don?t know when the deputies were hired. I know that a lot of them have been there for a long period of time. Q. Okay. They were Some Mr. Landese mm If Mr. Landess did, in fact, hire Mr. Walshire, then over the course of time_he has decided literally thousands and thousands and thoueands of workers' compensation cases; right? A. I'll take your word on that. Q. Okay. And do you know of any others aside from the Rizvio case in which he?s been criticized? A. Well, you know, I've shared with you LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO ease or TERRY BRANSTAD) 360 time and time again the reasons for the decision that I made. And these court cases are just a confirmation of what I heard from many other people all_throughout the state of Iowa. Q. Okay. My question was, however, whether or not you know of any other Criticism that any court ever had of Mr. Walshire aside from the Rizvic case. A. Well, I you not going to and I'm not aware specifically of every individual case.. And 1 don't see how anyone in my position can possibly know all these details. Q. have any of the WM Did any of your prior commissioners your workers' compensation commissioners have their cases overturned by the district court or the Court of? Appeals or the Supreme Court? A. Oh, I'm sure. I mean, just_like lawyers get their_cases overturned oftentimes on appeal. So those things, I'm sure, happen. Q. The purpose of judicial review is to _assure that the cases are being decided in aCcordance with the law; correct? A. Yes. Q. Okay. What Supreme Court case law do COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 363. you allege that Commissioner Godfrey violated? A. I've ?w I've never alleged anything. Q. in the mm You say here mm you mention the Ernst versus Lenuox case; correct? A. Ernst versus Leunox? Q. Yes. A. Yeah. Q. That?s one of the cases you mentioned; correct? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Do you know if that case was appealed? A. I don?t know; It's just a pretty bizarre case, when you think here's a company that offered a special benefit Q. Governor, please stop. You have told me about this case many times, and I am very well fami1iar with it myself, and I don't need to ?w to have you tell me about it_again. But I thought that what you told _me was that this case, Ernst versus Lennox, violated Supreme Court precedent. Did you tell me that or not? If you didn't, say didn't." And if you don't remember me A. I don't don?t remember having said HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 362' that. Q. All right. So Ernst-versus Lennox did not, as far as you know, violate any Supreme- Court precedent; is that correct? A. I don?t know. Q. These cases that are listed here are are they cases that you, yourself, have reviewed? A. No. Q. The Rizvic versus the Beef Products case which we've diScussed before, that is the to your knowledge, is that the only case where the mm any court suggested that Mr. Godfrey had a flawed methodology or a lack of objectivity or overstepped his role as an impartial impartial arbiter of facts and' became, in essence, an advocate for the respondent's position? A. Well, I don?t know what other judges have said in other cases;- I do know that the language used by the Court here was pretty pretty specific and mm and I think pretty flagrant, saying that it was lack of objectivityr flawed role as an impartial arbitrator of facts, and- COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288~4910 (VIDEO DEPO 0F TERRY 363 became, in essence, an advocate for the respondent's position. Q. And that A. That's pretty strong language to be used by a Court. Q. That was We Do you know what judge decided that case, said those words? A. I don't. Q. Would it surprise you to learn that it was your friend Judge Huppert? A. It.doesn't surprise me that any judge We you know, first of all, you know, I didn't look at which judge decided what. These are judges, and they confirmed the kind of things I was hearing from lawyers and from employers throughout the state. Q. Was the language that you have quoted in your answer to interrogatory reversed by the Court-of AppealsI'm not aware. Q. Do you think that the senators in 2009 had heard all of these myriad of complaints that you heard? A. I don't know. I'm not going to judge what the senators knew or didn?t know. I do COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 364 know how the confirmation process works, and I know'that oftentimes it's just a question of does anybody have any specific objections. If not, the confirmations usually go through. Q. Does Iowa have, to your knowledge, specific law like other states do that state that recreational activities are not in the course of employment? I A. I'm not familiar with that. Q. In Ernst versus Lennox that we've discussed, it's on the preceding page, the commissioner stated Well, let me ask you this. You would not expect the commissioner to ignore existing law; correct? Whatever he's deciding he is supposed to apply the law as it exists. A. It's my understanding that we're ?ohligated to comply_with the mm with the law, with precedence. Q. Do you.wm Do you know that, in fact, the Lennox the Ernst versus Lennox decision which you've cited several times was not _appealed by the cogpany and the and the claimant was paid? HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288~4910 (VIDEO DEPO 033' TERRY BRANSTADI'm not familiar with that. Q. Do you know that Eris Post had a decision in which she compensated a worker who broke his leg playing softball at the company pionio? A. E?m not aware of that. Q. Okay. How does the commissioner Hm How does Commissioner Post?s decision and I can tell you the name of the case if you want, it's called Miller versus UPS how does that decision which finds that an employee should be compensated for breaking his leg playing softball We how does that decision impact job creation? A. Well, I'm not familiar with that case, and we No mm No one brought that one to your attention? A. No one brought that to my attention, no. Q. Do you think that Eldon and Regina Roth, the people that you have mentioned to me before, should be responsible when a worker becomes severely injured in their meat REPORTERS LTD . (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 366 processing plant? A. Yes. Q. Is meat processing a very physical job? A. 'Yes. Q. A dangerous job? A. Yes. Q. Did you mm A. ?owever, their their plants are not slaughter plants._ What they do is do further processing. 89$ takes-meat and dangerous job ox not? Yes or no? A. They?re not nearly as dangerous as slaughter plants a_slaughter plant where -there are knives and stuff like-that. -I've been through that plant. Q. Okay. You've told me that. A. And I'm telling you it's a good plant,. it's a clean plant, it?s a safe plant. Unfortunately, because of the smear, they had to close a plant in Waterloo and one in w? in Texas and one in Kansaswent through the one in South Sioux. HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPQ 0F TERRY BRANSTAD) 367 Q. And you don't blame Commissioner Godfrey for that? A. No.. That mm Q. All right. A. I um I do blame the smear that the media did. Q. .Well, but A. And that "m there's a lawsuit involved in that. Q. The media hasn't I understand that. They?re suing As I understand it, the Roths are suing the media for defamation; right? A. Right. Q. Okay. That?s to hold the media accountable for what they said that caused the plants to fail ultimately; right? A. Well, what they said was untruer and it was very detrimental to w" to that to that company and to that family and MW and to the employees w" 9. Do A. and mm and, frankly, to the customers. Q. Do you think that it would be detrimental to an attorney in a quasi judicial COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY 368 position to be called biased in favor of workers? MR. I'm going to object" to the question as misoharaoterizing the position. It?s also-compound because of that and argumentative, A. Right. I would f? I would just say I made my decision First of all, I can tell you, I only respond to questions from the media. And mayhe I'm not as_artfui as I should be every time, but I try to be honest and direct and forthright when people ask me questions. And these are all all these things that you're bringing up are responses to inquiries that E?ve.reoeived from the media. And I have a press Conference every week. Okay.. My question, however, was wonld it he damaging to a quasi judicial officer to be sailed biased against employers?_ Well, I'm not going to make a judgment. I'm not I'm not going to make a judgment Q. You me You think that it is possible that it would not be damaging to an A. Well, listen, I get calied a lot worse than that every day of the week in the newspaper HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288n4910 (VIDEO lasso or TERRY 369 and from individuals and everything. So it's part of the job. If yOu're in a poSition of responsibility, you've gOt to accept sometimes people are going to say things that you don't like. And you've got you can't have a mm you can't always have such a thin skin that ?w that you let that prevent you from doing your job. Q. Is it correct that a quasi judicial officer who is biased against employers would.be subject to discipline under the code of ethics? A. First of all, this is not judicial. It's an administrative position within the executive branch of government. And I want to make that clear. And the governor has the responsibility to set the salary within a range, and that's what I did. MS. CONLIN: Would you read him my question back, please? (Requested portion of the record was read.) A. Well, I don?t accept the premise of the question, because it?s an administrative position, and I acted within my authority and responsibility under the law passed by the legislature. HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT.REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288W4910 (VIDEO DEPO OE TERRY 3'70 Q. Do you think that ALJs are quasi judicial officers? A. They are also administrative people within the executive branch of state government as well. Q. But MW But they are not quasi jedicial officers? A. They are people that make decisions to resolve disputes. And their decisions And they?re a part of the administrative code; they're part of the administration, which is the executive branch of government, but their decisions can be-appeaied to the judiciai branch, which is a separate branch of government. IAnd remember, I don't set the We the salary.of judges. I do.have the responsibility to set the salary of department heads and key people in the executive branch of government. And I do respect the separation of powers between the legislature, the executive, and the judicialr Q. Okay. And And what I?m trying to get at, Governor, and perhaps I'm being inartful in asking you this question, but I'm trying to COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) zsamaslo (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY BRANSTAD) 371 get at the fact that some positions in the executive department of the government, in that branch of the government, have responsibility for_finding facts and applying the law to those facts; correct? A. Right. Q. They are called either deputy industrial commissioners, deputy workers' compensation commissioners, or administrative law judges; correct? A. Well, there are many throughout the different departments and agencies of state government, people that decide issues involving unemployment and disputes labor disputes. I guess you get into the situation with the public employment relations board and things like that. Q. Okay. My mm What I'm trying to get at is there are some functions within the executive branch that have responsibility for finding facts and applying the iaw; rightrules or whatever it might be. But they are a part of the executive branch of government within the purview of the responsibility of the governor as the chief executive. COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 372 Q. Do the people of the state of Iowa have the right to assume that administrative law judges and industrial ?r and the we and the workerS' compensation commissioner and his or her deputies are making decisions on the basis of the law and the facts? A. Correct. 9.. And do they have the-right to assume that those decisions cannot be swayed by what the_governor wants in terms of creating a great business climate? A. Absolutely.' And I've made it clear and I have never tried to tell Commissioner Godfrey or anybody else that is a deciSionemaker in terms of facts or issues that come before-them- how they should make their decisions. IQ. Ali yoa did was lower his salary by $40,000 a year because he was not creating a favorable business climate; correct? A. I had the responsibility to set his salary, just as the previous governors did. And I chose, after evaluating his performance, as to what level I thought the salary should be. instead of the top of the range, i pieced_it at the bottom of the range. HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288~4910 (VIDEO nape OF TERRY 3'73 Q. Ahd the And the basis on which you made that decision were all the things that you heard from the_businesses and all the things that you've told me before; correct? That?s the basis? A. Well, it's the totality of all the information that I had before me. And I had the responsibility. And there is significant discretion given to the governor in setting the salaries of these key positions in the executive branch of government. And that was the responsibility that I exercised. Q. You exercised that responsibility to set the salary of the workers? compensation commissioner at $40,000 less than what he had previously been making; rightwithin the range and fulfilled my responsibility. Q. Okay. We_were talking about the Roths and I forgot to ask you. I got distracted. The The meat processing work done at that plant, when you toured the plant, did you notice that the floor was very greasy? A. I thought it was a pretty clean facility. And what we what we saw was that HUNEYMVAUGHR COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 '22_ 23 24 25 sq (VIDEOWDEPO or TERRY BRANSTAD) 374 they take scraps that have both meat and bone and gristle, and they use a centrifugal force to separate them. Q. Governor, I didn't really ask you what they did. A. Well, I?m trying to explain. Q. asked you if the floor was greasy. Is the floor greasy or not? Just yes or no? A. No, I don?t think-soy Q. All right. A- I thought it was it may have been wet, but I don't think it was greasy, Q. ?ew cou1d the the workers' compensation commissioner prove to you that Mr. Gilliland and Mr. Ralston were wrong about the things that they alleged about his. performance? A.- Well, the lieutenant governor and I and Jeff Boeyink basically made a.judgment based on. what we heard from him, plus all the other information we?d received from lawyers and and businesses and everybody else. We've been through.this again and again. Q. One of the things you say on page 21 is COURT REFORTERS, LTD. (515) 288M4910 (VIDEO peso or TERRY 3'75 that was also told that Mr. Godfrey personally advocated for an antibusiness agenda relating to :owa's apportionment laws relating to payments by employers when a previously injured employee is injured again and awarded benefits whereby the current employer could pay for a disproportionate amount of the employee?s oondition."l Somebody told you that; right? A. Yes. Q. Were you aware that, in fact, Mr. Godfrey and Mr. Meaoham were a part of the ABA ABI's committee dealing with this issue of apportionment? A. No. Q. Did you ask him about this issue? A. No. Q. Did you ask him about why he did not adopt the AMA Guides Sixth Edition? A. I don't remember that we specifically asked. Q. Did_you MM Do you agree that if you file a claim on your automobile insurance that your premiums are likely to go up? A. Certainly that is one of the factors that has to do with automobile premiums, yes. COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO 0F TERRY - 375 Q. Okay.' The states that you cite as being better than Iowa in terms of premiums, I believe that we ha?e_agreed that those states may have statutorily cut.behefit rates and changed their causation standard and the fee schedule. A. We don?t know. And I think you'd have to analyze it state by state to determine what they've done. Q.. Well, one of the agencies or one of the entities that does do that is the NASI and the and the What's that other one, the workers' something or other? There are agencies that do that; correct? A. Well, there are different groups that do different evaluations using different factors. Q. Okay. And one_of the ?w one of those mm one of those groups has.consistently found that Iowa's workers? compensation commission and its commissioner are among the top five in the country; right? IA. I'm not familiar with that. Q. OkayI Are we competing with states that have changed their laws and states that HUNEYWVAUGKN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 238~4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY 3'77 have not changed their laws? A. We're competing with everybody. This is a world economy, and we're competing with everYbody, And I can just know what the h? you. know, what the best comparison we have in terms of the states and their competitiveness is Ithis.~? what?s done by tne_Oregon workers' compensation commission. And they clearly show that Iowa has gone being one of the ieast expensive places to being middle of the pack. Q. Okay. Well, Governor, in 2014, based on the 2012 experience, did the NCCI decrease Iowa's workers' compensation premiums? A. I'm not familiar with that. Q. 2012 was when Chris Godfrey was the workers? compensation commissioner; correct? A. I think from about 2006 on. Q. Okay. And so if, in fact, what i?m- telling you is true, that the NCCI decreased Iowa's workers' compensation insurance while increasing overall workers' compensation insurance for the nation, then that WW and based that on the 2012 experience, then, in fact, you should have raised his salary back to where it COURT REPORTERS LTD . (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO 1313.190 OF essay BRANSTAD) 3'78 was before; correct? Because, in faCt,_what we?re doing is basing his salary on on the workers? compensation premium experience; correct? A. The chart on page 29 would contradict what you're saying. And I don?t think you can just base it on one year. I'm really looking at the trend and the direction the direction of the trend and the costs. And, you know, back in 2006 we were 7th lowest and now we?re according to this, we?re 28th. Q. So you think what I?m telling you is false? A. I don't know. Q. Okay.. Well, what l?m what I?m telling you is that in 2014.-- A. You can take things out of context and show anything you want to. Q. No, I'm not. It's NCCI. Don't mm A. I guess what I'm saying is we relied on the information that the Oregon people provide. And that is what a lot of businesses rely on. Q. Okay. Well, Governor, if, in fact, the rates for workers' compensation insurance for the entire year of 2014 were 2 percent lower HUNEYHVAUGHN COURE REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 3'79 than they had been before and, in feet, rates across the country were going up by about 8 percent, then that would that would be different than what you based your decision on; correct? A. We are always going to look at the totality of the information and circumstances we have. And i know what we based our decision on was based on information we heard at the local level, court decisions, the workers? compensation premium rate ranking that Oregon put out. And I'm not.familiar with these others that you're talking about, so I really can't comment on it. IQ. Okay. Well, do you know whatis going to happen in 2015? Do you know whether or not Mr. Gerhart has apptoved rates for 2015? A. I do not know. Q. Do you know whether or not those rates also went down? Two years in a row they've gone down. A. The whole question is what is the trend and is it going down more in other states than it is here and how competitive are we with other COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288%4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF BRANS-TAD) 330- states, are we getting better or worse. Q. Well, wouldn't you want to know Don't you Let me start again. Are you required to do due diligence before you out somebody's pay by ?o by $40,000? A. I followed the law. Q. No, not my question. Do you have to do any kind of due diligence, make an investigation? A. No. There is We There is no requirement in the law to do that. The law specifically spells out the criteria under which I should make decisions. Q. Well, the A. And I do that, and the legislature sets the parameter. And the only thing I can do is set the salary within that parameter, which I have done. Q. Okay. And as I recall that law, it mm it sets out four specific factors that you?re supposed to consider, among others; right? A. Right. MR. Well, wait a minute. That?s a misstatement of the law. COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 381 A. There's also discretion in addition to that. Q. I said "among others." Did you hear me say "among others"? I MS. CONLZN: Let's go off. THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Off the record ending Tape 7 at lBll. (A recess was taken.) TEE VIDEOGRAPHER: On the record beginning Tape 8 at 1812.- Q. Do you recall when you decided to set Mr. Godfrey's salary at the lowest possible level? A. Before that he was infozmed lhis was after the end of the fiscal year that ended on June 30th, so it would have been in early July 2011. Do you know whether Iowa's workers' compensation premiums have been stable or unstable? A. l've shared with you the information on which based the decision. Q. All right. So you don?t know whether the rates for workers' compensation premiums are stable or unstable in Iowa. Is that a correct COURT REPORTERS, LTD.- (515) 238-4910 10(VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY 382 understanding? A, I know what I heard from a lot of businesses throughout the state, Q. And one of the things you didn't hear anything about was the stability of Iowa's workers' compensation premiums; is that correct? A. What I heard is the'trend was in the wrong direction, that after years of having very low rates, that our rates have been_going up in relation to other states. Q. Well, then in based on experience in 2012 and 2013 they turned-around and started going down; correct? Or do you know that? A. No. Q. Okay. You mentioned on page 23 that you have founded or started a schoiarship in the name of Luther and.Willie Glanton. A. Yes. Q. How does creating a scholarship for minority students protect minority students from unlawful conduct? A. Well, when I became the president of Des Moines University, I found that we had we _did not have as many minority-healthcare professionals in Iowa as we-have minorities in HUNEYMVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY 383 the state. And I thought a good-thing that we could do would be to establish a Scholarship that could encourage more minority students to go to medicai school and and also in the other healthcare fields we have at Des Moines University here in the state; Willie Glantoh served on our board of trustees. -Before his death Luther Glanton served on our board of trustees. They've been pioneers and leaders in the civil rights movement. He was the first AfricanwAmericah district court judge. She was! the first black woman to serve in the Iowa legislature.- So I came up with the idea of having a Luther and Willie Glanton scholarship at Des Moines University, make it an endowed scholarship. Q. Why did you include that in this interrogatory? A. Because I think it shows my sensitivity to minorities and to people that m" that maybe haven't always received a reasonable break or opportunity. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 Ct; (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 384 Q. Is there anything about the creation of this scholarship that protects minorities from unlawful conduct? A. Well, they are protected by from unlawful conduct by federal and state laws. And_ -we also very carefully adhered to those and did everything we could to protect the interests of minorities at Des Moines University. And we had many minorities and we also had many gay people at Des Moines University. Faculty, staff, and students. And I worked with them as well as with minorities. And I actually approached the chief justice and the chief judge to help us launch the Glanton scholarship. And I'm very proud to say we now have one_and a half million dollars.in that endowed scholarship, and we're helping dozens and dozens of minority students to go to Des Moines University every year. Q. You also put in this answer to interrogatory another statement that I have questions about. And I particularly have questions about whether or not it is any relevance to the case that's pending. You say have been praised for HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS LTD . (515) 288?4910 (VIDEO peso or TERRY 385 appointing women to important leadership' positions in state government as well as in the judiciary." Why do you include that statement? A. Well, it shows my sensitivity to minorities and the fact that women have historically been underrepresented on the judiciary and in the important leadership positions in government. And I'm proud to say we have more women in leadership positions in state government today than ever in history. I have appointed the first woman to the Supreme Court; I appointed more than one woman to the Supreme Court. And I've appointed several women to the Court of Appeals and district court benches as well. Q. Were you informed of the content of Teresa Wahlert?s deposition with respect to A. No. Q. Do you know that she said that she testified that Commissioner Godfrey could not hire as due to HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 mt; (VIDEO DEPO 0F TERRY 386 his advanced age and his proximity to retirement? A. I'm not aware of that. Q. Does that cause you any concern? A. Well, if somebody is being disoriminated against on the basis of age, yeah, it would be a concern. We don't want to discriminate against people for sexual preference. We don't want to discriminate against people for religion or age or any reaSon. IQ. If she said that, would that be something that you would want to investigate? A. Well, it's something that if if indeed, it is the case, it should be reviewed, I- guess. That's really a civil rights issue. Q. I know what it is, Governor. A. So that's something that the Civil Rights Commission I guess if the individual. has a complaint would have the opportunity to mm to, you know, go to the Civil Rights Commission with that. Q. Well, the person would have to know that that's a basis on which they were denied-- employment; correct? HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 (VIDEO peso 0F TERRY 38'? A. Well, I'm not going to speculate because I don?t know. .This is all information I have no personal knowledge of. Q. Would you agree that any person who discriminated on the basis of age in employment would be subject to discipline? A. Weil, it's not appropriate, and think that there's certainly a cause of action if somebody is being discriminated against for any reason. Q. You mentioned earlier sexual preference. What is that? A. If a person is gay. Q. That's sexual preference in your opinion? A. Yes. Q. How many mm Do you know how many lawsuits have been filed against Teresa Wahlert? A. No, I don't. Q. Do you know how many grievances have been filed against her? A. No. Q. Do you know how many grievances she's lost? I A. I have No, I don?t. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288~4910 (VIDEO DEPO 0F TERRY BRANSTAD) 388 Q. Did you investigate the complaint of bies by the ALJs who swore under threat of 'perjury that they were under pressure by her to decide cases in favor of employers? A. I know Teresa Wahiert, and I just don?t you know, I don't have personal knowledge of that, and and she?s assured me that?s not the ease. Q. Okay. So you have not investigated it? A. Not personally. no. That's not my responsibility. Q. Do you know whether or not she'd ever been fired or asked to leave a job? MR. Who are you talking about? HMS.ICONLIN: Teresa Wahlert. A. Teresa Wahiert? I Q. Yes. A. know Teresa.Wahiert. and I know that she has been very suooessful in many different capacities and including the Des Moines Partnership and and I think in the w? in the telepbone industry prior to_that. She worked and managed_Mervin Pomerantz's Mid?America Group for a while. And COURT REPORTERS, (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY BRANSTAD) 389 I think she's been very successful. I know she's very sensitive and committed to opportunities for women and minorities. Q. Not my question. Do you know whether or not she's ever_been fired or asked to leave a jobAll right. You say in this answer to interrogatory have never known Teresa Wahlert to act unprofessionally or to discriminate against anyone"; correct? A. Yes. Q. And if, in fact, she declined to hire because of his advanced age, that would be discriminating; right? A. Yes, if that was the case. Q. Let's turn to the next page. The governor's retreat on October 10th of 2011. The subject matter of that retreat was was the budget matters and rules; correct? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Why was Labor Commissioner Mauro invited? Do you know? A. Jeff Boeyink, who is my chief of staff, HUNEYMVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 cc; (VIDEO 33290 OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 390 basically invited the people to that to that event. And there may have been a specific issue involving labor that he was asked to address. Q. Under the 4A Subsection 9, VPublic Statements Concerning Mr. Godfrey?s Performance," you say that your statements and the statements made on your behalf by Mr. Boeyink, Lieutenant Governor Reynolds,.and Tim Albrecht are all true; correct? A. Yes. And they all have to do with the performance of ?m of his mm of his job. Q. And in connection with_these public statements did you expect mm A. Let me also say all of these statements were.made in response to press inquiries. Q. Sometimes when the press makes inquiry of you or your staff with respect to pending litigation you refuse to comment; correct? A. Yes. Q. Did you hope to undermine the credibility of the claims filed against you and your staff by making the statements that you made with respect to Mr. Godfrey? A. Would you repeat the question? MS. CONLIN: Would you read it COURT REPORTERS, LTD. cc; (VIDEO DEPO 03' TERRY BRANSTAD) 391 back, please? (Requested portion of the record was read.) .A. No. Q. What was your purpose in making those public statements? A. I'm the governor of the state of Iowai I have a press conference every week. I feel an obligation to the people of Iowa to respond to and answer questions that are ?m that are submitted to me by the WM that are asked of me _by the press. And I do this every week, and i have a lot of tough questions that are asked, and do my very best to give honest answers to their questions. I've been advised when there is pending litigation that that it's wise not to respond and but my general inclination is to be very open and transparent and answer people's questions. Q. Do you recall the line item veto that you made on the chief deputy position for the Iowa workers' compensation mm A. I have made hundreds of thousands of COURT LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO DEPO 0F TERRY BRANSTAD) 392 line item vetoes to balance the budget and keep the state's financial house in order or get it in order. Q. Did A. Those are all done basically to keep the state in sound financial condition. And I do that and I did it again this year in a lot of areas. Q. 1 wonder, Governor, if we can agree that state rankings are impacted by legislative changes in terms of the workers' compensation premium rates. A. Repeat the question. (Requested portion of the record was read.) A. Oh, that's maybe one factor, but there's many other factors. The graph that you include, that comes_wm I A. On page 29? Q. Yes. That comes from the Oregon study; correct? Correct. It?s based on the Oregon study. LTD. (515) 233~4910 (VIDEO mayo OF TERRY swamp) 393 9. Okay. And you say here "The 2014 study shows that as Mr. Godfrey continued as workers' compensation commissioner, Iowa continued to move in the wrong direction and lost its ?competitive advantage over South Dakota, Alabama, and Kentucky?; correct? A. Correct. Q. And that is on a comparative basis with no consideration of whether or not the laws in these various states have changed; correct? A. That's just an overall comparison, apples to apples, how we stack up versus the other states. And you can And that's what the state of Oregon does in order to see how they stack up, but it?s shared with the rest of us. Q. On page what I think would be page 31, you certify under the penalty of perjury that all of the material included in this answer to interrogatory is true and correct, to the best of your knowledge and belief; correct? A. Correct. Yes. Q. After page 31 there are several additional materials that go with your answer. What is the purpose of including those (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY 394 additional materials? A. 'I'm not sure. I think it's supplemental information to try to provide the 'information that's requested. Q. One of the things that you refer to are the ?4 is the complaint of Todd Beresford; correct? I A. Yes. Q. And his complaint was made after you lowered Mr? Godtrey's salary; correct? A. But he's also the one that invited me to that meeting that was held in September, before the election in 2010, where I met with the self the self?insured employers and with the lawYers representing them. Q. He "m You also or someone on your behalf at page 36 quotes Mr. Beresford?s comment that given the ABI's and other employers' lack of public support for Governor Branstad?s recent action in reducing Commissioner Godfrey?s salary in an attempt to get him to resign as the Iowa workers' compensation commissioner, a summary of' some of Godfrey's decision is provided. Do you see that? _It?s on page 36. cones REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288~4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 395 A. I don't have that. MR. DOANE: You just said to go through the signature. Q. Oh, okay. A. I don't have that. Q. I Let me show it to you on my page. That?s page 36. And that?s quoted from I Mr. Beresford's em this is the beginning of it. MR. What is the question? A. Yeah. What is the question? Q. Do you Is that a correct statement? MR. Well, Ms. Coniin, you're ?d you're asking him to go over "w and it's going on 6:30 at night, and you're we you're going over matters that have been already provided to you in interrogatory responses to your questions and detailed in writing and you're asking him if that?s what it says? MS. CONLINclearer MR. mean, what is the purpose of taking this time "u MS. CONLIN: Let me_ww Let me ask a clearer question. HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (lg (VIDEO DEPO 0s TERRY BRANSTAD) 396 Q. Is it, in fact, correct, that Mr. Beresford's Is what mm Let me start again. I'm getting a little tired myseif. Is what Mr. Beresford says with respect to the ABI's lack of public support for your reduction in Mr. Godfrey's salary in an attempt to get him to resign as the Iowa workers' compensation commissioner mm is that a did, in fact, the AB: and other employers not publicly support that decision of yours? A. I?m not aware of that. Q. You don't know whether they did or not? A. No, I don't know. Q. Okay. Well A. And_really; that's my responsibility. And I performed my responsibility. Q. Okay. One of the other things that you -rely on, at least in this, is documents mm performance documents 83?84. And that?s the James Miller letter. Do you recall that we looked at that earlier? A. Well mm Q. It's in here, Governor. A. It?s in here?- Okay. Q. I Yes. RUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288"4910 (vmso DEPO or TERRY BRANSTAD) 397 5. So we?ve been over that. Q. Yes,.we have. And there?s just one other thing I wanted to ask you about in this material. At page 60 you say "Mr. Godfrey's main basis for claiming discrimination is that he says Governor Branstad changed his reasons why he lowered Mr. Godfrey's salary. Mr. Godfrey claims that the governor has at different times given different reasons for Mr. Godfrey's poor performance assessment, and from that Mr. Godfrey infers that he must not be telling the truth. There are several flaws in this reasoning, which on its own is no evidence whatsoever of disorimination." Let me show it to you. MR. Ms. Conlih, you're now referring to portions of the interrogatory answer that are the general answers responded to in part mostly by Counsel based on questions with regard to mixed questions of law and fact. MS. CONLEN: I'm not w~ MR. The governor signed under oath the portion of the interrogatories based on his personal knowledge. It's going on COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 :(VIDEO nape OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 398 6:30, and you?re asking him things that have already been submitted to you in mm in discovery and that you know were prepared by legal counsel and not the governor. So I don't know where this is going to go, but, you know, to me, it's abusive and it's me it?s getting absolutely nowhere as _to what the governor knows from his own personal knowledge, which is contained in the portion of the interrogatory answer that he signed and verified under oath. Q. Governor, l've just read that to you. Take another look at it, if you will, and tell me whether or not yon agree with what year attorney said in that reapect. A. I'm not going to contradict my attorney. Q. So as far as you know, that's true? A. This is not something I have personal knowledge of. Q. All right. Do you know about the PERFECT syStem, which is the workers' compensation system that was_supposed to be a computerized system? A. No, I do not. HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288~4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 399 Q. Okay. You don?t know anything about that? A. No. I WW I know thereis been a lot of problems with it. I know that Mr. Godfrey brought that up to me when we had that interview in December of 2010. But I don't know anything about it. Q. Well, do you know do you blame Mr. Godfrey for the failure of the PERFECT 'system to be up and running? A. i said I don't know enough about it to really make a judgment on that issue. Q. So the PERFECT syStem played no role in your decision? A. No. (Exhibit 87 was marked for identification.) Q. Here is Exhibit 87, the headline of which is "Iowa Workers' Compensation Rates Could Moderate in 2014." apologize, Governor. In my effort to keep the documents down, I don't w" I did not include anything that says where this is from, but if you'll accept that it's from a reliable source, it says "The preposed rates for HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 cq. (VIDEO DEPO 0F TERRY BRANSTAD) 400 2014 are based on the National Council on Compensation Insurance's analysis of the state's workers' compensation premiums and losses from policy years 2010 and 2011, evaluated as of December 31,.2012." Were you aware of that? No. Q. Were you aware that average indemnity costs improved.markedly in ?f Let me start again. "According to the analysis, average rates can be decreased because workers' compensation claims frequency by Iowa employers decreased in 201i." Do you know whether that?s true or not? A. No. I've never seen this before, and I don't. Okay." In 20l1 Chris Godftey was the workers' compensation commissioner. And if thel rates of claim frequency decreased in 2011, that's m? on the basis of what you told me, that would be attributable to him; right? A. Well, there is also a statement in the same document that you're quoting from that says that the indemnity costs improved markedly after HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 401 years of deterioration. Q. Well, Governor, do you remember that there was kind of a crisis in 2008 and 2009, like a national great recession that impacted the the rates of return for insurance companies? A. I?m familiar with the fact that the nation went through a significant recession. Q. Okay. decreasing and did decrease in 2014 w? And if,-in fact, the rates are A. that's one year. Q. That was Mm A. I said we're looking at the trend. Q. Well, Governor, I just told you about the trend. These rates decreased even though twouthirds of the premium dollar goes to medical costs, and you've not done anything to decrease those medical costs by adopting a medical fee schedule; correct? A. Well, we've done a lot of things to to deal with medical costs. learned a lot Des Moines University, and we've tried to do lot to get people to take owaership of their health and do health risk assessments and do COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 try at OWH (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY 402 things that are going to help reduce healthcare costs in our state. I So 1 don't agree with your statement we haven't done things to reduce medical costs, because we have. And Iowa's medical costs are generally quite a bit lower than most other states. Q. One of the things One of the things I asked you was about the medical fee schedule that you discussed, though you don?t remember- it, with Mr. mm with Mr. Godfrey; correct? A. Right. That's right. I I don't 'remember any discussion about a medical fee schedule. Q. Are you aware that mm Do you know what -A.M. Best.is? A. a rating agency. Q. Are you aware that based on A.M. Best 'figures, insurance companies who write workers' compensation insurance made record profits in 2013? .A. No. Q. Are they gouging Iowa employers? A. I don't knoe. Q. Could they be? COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 403 A. The insurance commissioner has the responsibility to review the insurance premiums and determine what's fair to protect the interests of the consumers of the state of Iowa. And I have confidence in the insnrance commissioner. MR. Ms. Carlin, now that he's answered, these are all things that he has no personal knowledge of and things that if you Want to establish and they are relevant to this case you could_do so by the very documents and proper evidentiary sources. But to sit here now, it?s going on seven ofclock, just to ask him about things that he knows nothing about or that he couldn?t provide a foundation for and is not even competent to testify on is abusive, and it?s harassment, and it needs to stop, and you need to get on to questions that are germane to this case and and that he has personal knowledge about. That's why he's here. There's We We can start f- MS. CONLIN: It takes a lot of time.for you to make your objections. MR. We can start with HUEEYMVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 '(VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 404 the We can start with the you know, and MW and mm but that doesn?t mean that the governor knows anything about it. Okay?_ So let's just stay with what?s going on with the case here. MS. CONLIN: That?s what I?m trying to do, George. And your mm your objections are taking more time than my questions. Q. Governor, you told me that you understand the question of the scope of employment; correot? A. The scope of employment? Q. Yes. A. For the workers' comp commissioner? Q. Well, for f? Scope of employment has application_to a number of different areas, but is it something-that you understand? .A. Well, scope of employment ?f Rte you talking about a specific individual, or are you talking about you know, so I'm got to give me a better, more clear question. Q. Okay. .Weliwhat you tOid me before is scope of employment means during working hours, On the premises of the' COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (VIDEO peso OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 405 employarr correct, for workers' compensation purposes? MR. Well, then he's answered it. It?s asked and answered. A. Yes. Yes. Q. Okay. So that we agree that that is what scope of employment means? A. Right. So what we're saying, if you're shoppihg at a shopping mall to buy work ciothes, that's not within the scope of employment. Q. Do you know whether or not a violation of an employer role might remove an employee from the scope of employment? A. I don't. Q. And it is.correct that Iowa the state of Iowa'has a progressive discipline policy; right? Do you know about the progressive discipline policy at the state of Iowa? No. Q. Do you know that Iowa workers are entitled to have an oral warning, a written warning, suspension before they're terminated or before adverse action is taken against them? A. Well, it all depends upon whether HUNEY-VRUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 405 they're an at?will employee, whether theylre under a contract, or whether they're under the "m they?re a noncontraot employee. So there's all kinds of different rules depending upon the individual employee?s situation and which category they're in. There's no one answer for that. -Q. The The nonunion employees got a .1 percent salary increase after they were asked to pay 20 percent of their health insoranoe costs; correct? A. Correct. But they were also given an opportunity to be involved in a wellness program and do health risk assessments to help them take . more ownership of their health and reduoe_their health risks. And this is Something I learned at Des Moines University. We did health risk assessments for all faculty, staff, and students. MS. CONLIN: Why don't you object to him? A. Because I?m answering your question. Q. No, you?re not. A. And explaining why we did it. And Wm COURT REPORTERS, - (515) 283-4910 peso OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 407 And "u Q. I didn't ask you why. I asked you if. _Did you do it? A. Yes. Q. All right. And when you did that, Chris was one of the people who had to pay 20 percent of his health insurance; right? A. And I did and the lieutenant governor did and everybody in the governor's office. Yes. Q. And mm And when he was required to pay '20 percent of his health insurance, that changed his compensation rate; correct? A. It changed everybody. All of us in e? that are noncontract employees. But it was all designed to try to'encourage people m? And And by the way, at the bargaining table we're 'asking contract employees to do the same thing. And I went to arbitration on that issue last time, and the arbitrator says, "Well, you're not requiring that of the noncontract." So now we're doing it of the noncontract, and we're hopeful that the contract employees will do as the SPOC union has already agreed to do, a similar program that does require them to pay 20 HUNEYMVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 408 percent. But if they?re involved, they- get, I think, $111 per month back if they do health risk assessments and do.things to improve their own health. MS. I_move to strike the. governor?s voluntary statement. MR. You asked him-about this area. MS. CONLINLet's just keep going, Ms. Coniin. MS. CONLEN: intend to, if you will stop interrupting me. MR. Well, you asked him about premiums and and cuts, and he's given you the answers. MS. CONLIN: I asked him a very simple, straightforward question, and he gave me his stump speech on the issues that we?re- taiking about. I A. No. No. No. No. Wait a minute. MR. No. _No. Stop. THE WITNESS: 'Okay. Okay. HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO or TERRE enansmao) 409 MR. There's no question pending. rat WITNESS: Okay. Okay. MS. CONLIN: There is no question pending. was Okay. Q. So for-Mr. Godfrey and others you took if he was paying $100 a month or so for insurance, you took $20 away from him; correct? A. Not if he chose to'be involved in the wellness program. The whole program was designed to encourage people to do things to take ownership of their own health. I did that. The lieutenant governor did that. There was a lot of other employees in state government. That was a choice. A. You could choose to do that. Or if you chose not to do_that, then you pick up the whole 20 percent. Q. Well, even if you did not pick up the whole 20 percent, even and even if you did the health and wellness thing, you still paid some portion of your health insurance; correct? A. Yes. HUNEYWVRUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY BRANSTAD) 410 Q. Okay. So you took money from Mr. Godfrey's salary to pay his health inserance;loorreot? A. We did this for all noneontraot employees._ Q. I we I understand that. A. He wasn't treated any different than anybody else. And w~ But most of those workers or many of those workers got a 1 percent increase in their salary; correct? A. - I didn?t-and we and the lieutenant governor didn?t. The other elected officials didn't. There's a lot of people that didnitthe people who didn't get that 1 percent were any of those people at the bottom of the wage scale for their employment,'their the rahge set by the? legislature? A. Well, there's thousands of people that are affected by this, so I u? I don't know that can answer that question. Q. Okay. I want to show yon a document that was marked in a "w weil,'yes, it was marked previously. This is the agency performance plan COURT REFORTERS, LTD. \(515) 288?4910 cc: (VIDEO 9290 OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 411 for 1WD. Can you tell me whether or not that's something that you have seen before? No. Q. It is Exhibit 32, marked in a previous deposition. It It purports to set out the the specific measurements for the various services provided by the Iowa Iowa Workforce Development; correct? MR. Do you have a copy for Counsel? MS. CONLIN: Oh, I do. I'm sorry. Q. Okay. Let me see this. Does it have a. Bates stamp? It bears Bates stamp RBC1468 through 1473. This is not something "w 1474. This is not something that you looked at in terms of making your decision about Mr. Godfrey w~ A. No. Q. MW and his pay; correct? This is something that you would have access to; right? A. I don't recall ever seeing it before. I'm not one to micromanage. Q. Do you Let me start again. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO mam OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 412 Did you play any role in the bill introduced into the Iowa legislature to make the workers? compensation commissioner an officer that serves at the pleasure of the governorThis was not a bill that I introduced. Q. I know you didn't introduce it, but did you propose it.or suggest it or discuss it with anyone?- A. No. Q. There were several jobs that had been merit system jobs that you've changed to atwwiil positions. How many? A. Well, this was done by the Department of Administrative Services to more reflect the appropriate classification for those positions. And that action was approved by the legislative council. Q. How many? A- I don't know exactly. Q. Give me a range. A. I I really don?t know.. And I do know this was the responsibility of the Department of Administrative Services, and it HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT LTD. (515) 288*4910 1331120 or TERRY BRANSTAD) 413 was approved by the legislative council. Do you know how many of the people that are holding those jobs that were changed from merit jobs to at the pleasure of the governor still have the jobs that they had at the time that change was made? A. I do not. Q. Are there a number of those people who you have fired or someone on your behalf has fired? A. I'm not aware that we've fired e" that have fired anybody. The departments and agencies have the responsibility. And as I said before, I donit micromanage. Q. The carryover money that's saved from the amount budgeted for spending in the next fiscal year. that's permitted; correct? Carryover money. A. It's a bad budgeting practice that the state auditor said should not be continued. And that's the reason why I have consistently item vetoed those things. Q. Is there a law or a rule that allows you to take such funds from the agency and reappropriate them elsewhere? HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO DEPO 0F TERRY BRANSTAD) 414 A. I have the authority given to me by the constitution of the state of Iowa to item veto items within appropriation bills. And i?ve chosen to veto many of those items because i feel they are bad budgeting practices, as the state auditor has indicated they are. Q. Did you authorize taking $156,000 in carryover'funds from the workers' compensation commission to be put in the general fund and reappropriated? A. ?We did this throughout state government. And I have consistently objected to bad budgeting practices such as this use of carryover funds. Did you scoop up other carryover funds from other agencies? A. Oh,r yes. Q.g Okay. And did A. We've done this consistently over a number of years. It's a bad budgeting practice, and I?ve worked with the state auditor to try to correct as much of these bad budgeting practices as possible. Q. Are you required to give notice to the agency before you take their carryover funds? COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288~4910 (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY newsman) 4:15 A. This is a power that was granted by the people of iowa to the governor called item veto. And I have the right to protect the interests of the taxpayers by item vetoing items. And I have done that consistently. i have done that in conjunction with the objections that the state auditor has made to bad budgeting practicesagency saves money from one budget year to the next budget year mm That money iS'supposed to revert. The law requires it to revert. Sometimes' legislators will say, "Well, let's take that money and spend it somewhere else." And that is a bad budgeting practice. Q. Okay. So it?s your position that the law requires carryover funds to revert to the general fund. Is that a correct understanding? A. At the end of the fiscai year it's supposed to revert. Q. Okay. Item veto is one thing. And you did that to Mr. Godfrey. but the taking of the money that he carried over from one year to another, that's not that was not the subject of an item veto, was it? A. Yes. The carryover And this is HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REEORTERS, LTD. {515) 288-4910 ?sq (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY BRANSTAD) 416 I've done this throughout state government. Sometimes the legislature will say, "Well, we're just going to let this agency carry this money over and spend it in the next fiscal year."? That's contrary to the law that requires that it revert at the end of the fiscal year, and it's a bad budgeting practice that I have prevented through the item veto. .9. Okay. So it's your contention that you have somehow item vetoed carryover funds for state agencies? Is that a correct' understanding? A. If the legislature puts language in an appropriation bill that says contrary to the law that says this is going to revert. instead it?s. going to be able to be carried over and spent on another purpose, I have consistently item vetoed _those kind of provisions in appropriation bills for all departments and agencies. Q. Okay. -So what you?re telling me is that, in fact, the item veto was used by you to remove carryover funds-from agencies? A. Yes. And I've done that on a number of occasions. And it's what's helped us make sure that we have sound budgeting practices that are HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288"4910 (VIDEO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 417 consistent with the state auditor?s recommendations. Okay. Did you Do you know Senator Chapman? A. Yes. Q. Did you provide any material to him after you out Chris's pay? A. I don?t know what you're talking about. Q. Did you ask your staff'or personally provide any material, any information to Senator Chapman after you out Chris's pay on July 11th, 2011? A. I'm not aware of ?w of anything. I mean, I didn't do anything specifioaliy. Q. Do you know whether or not your staff was responsible for ghost writing an editorial that MI. MN that Senator Chapman signed? A. E?m not aware of it. Q. This will be Exhibit 88. No? A. 90. That says 89, I think. Q. No. 86, 87. A. Okay. You're right. 88. (Exhibit 88 was marked for identification.) Q. I?m showing you what I have marked as COURT LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO TERRY BRANSTAD) 413 Exhibit 88, chapter 1186 of appropriations. And if you will turn to the back page, which is an item veto by you of a couple of iSSues. MR. I'm sorry. You're referring to the last page of Exhibit 88? _Ms. CONLIN: Yes. MR. Okay. MS. CONLZN: Yes. Q. Governor, for context, you might want to look at the page before. You say "Dear Mr. Secretary: I hereby transmit House File 2337." and you say am unable to approve the item designated as Section 19," and so on. "This item provides $153,000 to the Workers' Cempensation DiVision to create a new position of chief deputy commissioner. aThe effect of this disapproval shell.oause the $153,000 contained in this item to revert to the general fund."_ And you did, in fact, item veto $l53,000 appropriated by the legislature for the workers? compensation_commissioner to hire a I chief deputy; correct? A. Yes, I did. Q. And the chief deputy, among other HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REEORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO mm TERRY BRANSTAD) 419 things, would be authorized to hear appeals from other deputies; correct? A. I don?t know. I just know that have been working very hard to reduce the size and cost of government, and I conducted a number of item vetoes_of new positions and additional spending. This was one of them. Q.- How did your item veto of Mr. Godfrey?s appropriation for a chief deputy affect the overall budget allocation? A. Well, actually, the budget still went- up. Even with that item veto, the Workers' Comp Division did get an increase in their budget. But I conducted a number of item vetoes that helped us control the the size and cost of government. That was one of them. Q. And what authority did you rely on to give those dollars to other people? A. The money goes back to the general fund. Q. Oh. A. That "u That is the mm Anytime there's an item veto and the money is not spent, the money goes back to the general fund of the state. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO 0F TERRY BRANSTAD) 420 Q. Do you remember an exchange which I don't have with me, but an exohange with a budget person named Kelly Taylor about your authority to item veto this particular appropriation? A. No. Q. Who on your staff would be in charge of that? A.. Well, E?m the one that has the_final decision?making on item vetoes. 'Varioue members of the staff review and make recommendations, but the ultimate responsibility and authority is with me. And I'm the one that personally does all the item vetoes. I Q. Well, what I'm'trying to get at, Governor, is who do I.aek about the.exchahge that you had or we_thought you.had with Mr. Taylor? A. I have no clue. Q. Okay. Is there anyoae on your staff 'who deals with budgets? A. Well, there's a lot of people that on the staff that deal with budgets. Wirtually everybody has a liaison to a different department and agency. It all depends on, you COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288~4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY swarm) 421 know, who is assigned to that agency and mm and whatever. And so there's a lot And the legal counsel and everybody gets involved in that process. (Exhibit 89 was marked for identification.) Q. These Exhibit 89 are the response ww your response to the plaintiff's first request for admissions. You were asked in Request For Admission Number 1 if it says, excuse me, "Plaintiff was not provided a 1 percent salary increase." It is correct, is it not, that Plaintiff was not provided a 1 percent salary increase on July 1, 2014? A. Well, as I said, a lot of people didn't get salary increases it they weren't a noncontract employee, if they were like an elected official or if they were in one of these other categories. And I think there's a whole list of people here that didn't get increases. And frankly, the contract employees didn't either, because they agreed at the bargaining table that they would not get the increase in their final offer. And, of course, HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 cu; (VIDEO mayo 01? TERRY BRANSTAD) 422 they won in arbitration, but their final offer had no increase. Was the plaintiff given a 1 percent increase on July July of 201% or not? A. No. Q. Was he ever given any increase for cost of living or for any other purpose during the 'years that he served under your administration? A. Not to my knowledge. Q. Other people were given cost~of?living increases? A. Well, you have all kinds of people in different circumstances. You have contract employees, you have elected officials, you have noncontract employees, and there are different. requirements and categories_for each one. He is in a category where the governor sets the salary within the range that the legislature spells out. .And I have done that under the law. Q. Governor, have a number of people in your administration been the_subject of investigation for misconduct? A. I'm not aware of mm 1 just know that within the large executive branch of state BUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY 423 government there's always different investigations and different issues that come up. And we try to deal with each of them on the individual basis. Q. David Worley was the commandant of the veterans home; correct? A. He was. Q. Did Were you aware of the investigation into his conduct? A. He was originally selected by Governor Culver. He's one that I asked to resign and who agreed to resign. But then after reviewing his circumstances, I kept him on. I was aware that there was complaints and concerns about him. In fact, I asked Jodi Tymeson to become the chief operating officer to work with him. 'And eventually he came to me mm or mm or because issues were raised about his relations with We his contact or conduct with certain employees at the veterans home, he agreed to resign for the interest because he didn't want to do anything that would hurt the veterans home. (Exhibit 90 was marked for identification.) HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288~4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 424 Q. I'm showing you what I have marked as Exhibit 90. Are you generally familiar with Exhibit 90? A. No. Q. This is an investigation, Governor, that was conducted of the conduct of Mr. Worley in October, November, and December of 2012. Were you aware that ?w Why don't you turn to A. I was familiar with We There Were 'conoerns and there was investigation done by general services. I have not seen this document. I don't know the details; Q. Okay. This This is from your chief of staff to Michelle Minnehan re: Iowa Veterans Home investigation. And it says Were you aware of those complaints against him? HUNEYWVRUGKN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 cc; (VIDEO 13an 0F TERRY BRANSTAD) I. I 425 A. Yes. Q. Okay. The finding ahpears at page 142. Do you know Ms. A. No, I don?t know her personally. Q. Okay. If you would turn to page 142, you will see A. I don't know where 142 is. Q. m? that she says Did you ask Was any discipline visited on My. Worley as a result of this investigation? A. Yes. Q. What was that? A. We met with him, and we basically w? we told him about these allegations, that we thought they were serious, and he said, "Well, if this is something that could harm the veterans home, will resign." And he resigned. COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY BRANSTAD) 426 He voluntarily resigned. Q. in December of 2013? A. Well ~w Well, I don't remember the exact date, but he resigned. Q. I'm sorry. December of 2012. That's m? It's your 9~ It is your contention that he resigned after this investigation occurred? A. Well, I can originally I think what happened is Jeff Boeyink went up and reviewed the circumstances there. We decided to ask Jodi Tymeson, who is a retired general from the National Guard, who had run the Department of Veterans Affairs, if she would become the chief operating officer and work with him to deal with these issues. And she did. And that continued. And then later there continued to be allegations made. And eventually, then, he agreed to resign at a later point. Q. Okay. A. So the point is we take all of these things seriously. We did investigate it. The investigation was conducted, and eventually he agreed to resign. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY BRANSTAD) 427 Q. Well, was it a year later that he agreed to resign? A. It was some time later. Q. And during that We all "u all during that time you continued to receiye allegations against him; correct? A. Jodi Tymeson was there, and she was reviewing the situation and felt that things were, you know, working out, but there continued to be other things that bubbled up. And we finally felt that, considering the circumstances, it was probably best for him to leave. Q. I Okay. You appointed General Tymeson on May 7th, 2013, according to the press release that I have. Does that seem correct to you? A. That sounds right. And w" A. And she's done.a great job. Q. She?s still.?? She mm She replaced him; correct? I I A. Right. And the other thing is he was a nursing home administrator. And the law used to require the person be not only a veteran but a nursing home administrator. HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288M4910 (vmso DEPO or TERRY BRANSTAD) 423. And she?s not a nursing home administrator, but she is a very distinguished veteran general from the Iowa National Guard. But the legislature in the intervening time changed the law and made it possible for the commandant to be a veteran but not a nursing home administrator if you had a chief operating officer that was a nursing home administrator. The The veterans home is a large nursing home. Q. Okay. A. But it serves the veterans and their spouses. Q. I've visited there. According to the press release, Worley resigned on October ist, 2013, ten months after the completion of the investigation into -his conduct by Michelle Golightiy; correct? A. Correct. Q. - And all during the time, December, January, Feerary, March, April, May, June, July, August, September, you were receiving continued complaints of his conduct; correct? A. Actually, we sent Jodi Tymeson up there. And the reports that she was giving us HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910. cq- (VIDEO DEPO 0F TERRY 429 were positive, but then additional complaints surfaced later. And that's where we made the decision it would be in the best interests of 'the veterans home and Mr. Woriey to resign. And he agreed. He?s a good soldier. He agreed to do that. Q. And you you asked him to resign; correct? A. Yes. Q. And you asked him to resign because of the complaints A. Well, we told him the complaints that were being alleged against him, and he said that he felt that he didn't want to put the veterans home through this, and consequently he chose to resign. Q. A. I don't recall that we did. We m? As I said, I did send Jodi Tymeson there to try to -work with him and deal with the.issues and see if it could be worked out and recognizing HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT RE90RTERS, LTB. (515) 288?4910 (VIDEO nape OF TERRY 4-30 that this is a very unique position. It has to be a-hursihg home administrator and a veteranvery distinguished veteran who was chosen by my predecessor, but i asked him to stay on. When you sent Jodi Tymeson, was it to NW what was her purpose? A. Her purpose was to be the chief operating officer. And I think his problem was maybe a personality thing, in that he didn't his interaction with some of the other staff was not as good as we thought it should have been. And we thought possibly that could get'worked out, but it didn't. Q. And you let him stay ten months after he was found to have violated the laws of the state of Iowa; correct? A. Well, allegations were made to that effect. And we continued to look at what was the appropriate thing to do. And I think "u I have a lot of confidence in Jodi. And as I said, she is how the commandant because the legislature did change the law and make it possible for us to have a honmnursing home HUNEYHVRUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (vroso DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) I431 administratot. It wouldn't be easy to find a nursing home administrator that is also a veteran. g. The DAS was charged with the duty of investigating his conduct and interviewing the people who complained; correct? A. They were asked to do that, as I understand it, by my staff. Q. Isn't that the process that you?re supposed to follow? A. As I understand it, this is a mm this is a process that they were asked to do. Q. Did you review any of the statements made by any of the employees who worked under Commandant Worley? A. No. I don't don't get into that detail. Q. Okay. What you mw What you did was A. i relied on my chief of staff. And he mm he grew up in Marshailtown. He's very familiar with the veterans home. He did spend considerable time up there at the veterans home and interviewing and meeting with people. And then we felt that sending COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) zaaeaszo (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 432 Jodi Tymeson up there to be the chief operating officer may resolve it, but later we decided that there.were still enough concerns that he does ?w he did need to be replaced. And he was a good soldier in the sense that he said, "Well, if this is in the best interests I want to do what's in the best interests of the veterans home." And we determined that would be for him to resign. And he did. Q. So you sent Jodi Tymeson to the veterans home after the completion of the' investigation; correct? IA. Yes. Q. And you sent her there to sort of watch over him and keep track of what he was doing and report to you? A. Well, and and to review and make sure that we didn't have additional problems. Well, you did have additional problems, though; correct? A. Well, and once it became obvious there- were additional problems, we took the action that we did. Q. All right. MS. CONLEN: Let's go off the COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910 (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY BRANSTAD) 433 record. THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Off the record ending Tape 8 at 1911. (A recess was taken.) THE VIDEOGRAPHER: On the record beginning Tape 9 at 1917. (Exhibit 91 was marked for identification.) Q. Governor, do you have any social or professional relationships with Rosemary or Bill Sackett? A. Rosemary Beckett? Q. Or Bill, her husband Bill. A. I appointed Rosemary'Sackett to the Iowa Court of Appeals, and she was selected by her colleagues to be the chief judge of the Court of Appeals. And I also did'attend her retirement. And I can tell you there was a wonderful deal at her retirement showing her with a bun, big dark hair on top of her head, and me with long hair and and a dark mustache when I announced her appointment as as a woman to the m? to the Court of Appeals. So I do know Rosemary Sackett. HUNEYHVAUGKN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO nape OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 434 1 mm She's a hard worker, and I think she did a good job in her years on the Court of Appeals. Q. Do you have a sociai relationship with her? A. No. Q. Did yon ever go to her ww'their house' up at the lake or anything like that? A. No. Never have. Never have. Q. Or out to dinner or anything like that? A. No. Q. Do you have a social relationship with Eisenhauer? A. No. Q. .Did you ever go out to dinner with her and her husband Larry or.anything like that? ..A. No. I did appoint her husband Larry.to the district court bench. I think Governor Viisack appointed him to the Court of Appeals. Q. Okay. Did you attend any outside?ofmwork functions with Eisenhauer? A. Not to my knowledge. Q. Exhibit 91 is_cailed "aefiance and Retaliation," Leader?s Edge Magazine. What i want to ask you about are some of the quotes COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 28854910 (VIDEO TERRY BRANSTAD) 435 that we find in this document. A. I've never heard of this document. Q. This is a magazine, and it ?m it quotes you from Ask the Governor and the likecan find that, an eXtra copy. A. We?ve already gone through that stuff on Ask the Governor. Do we need to go through that again? Q. Well, because some of the things that ?w MS. CONLZN: Did I give you my marked copy, George? Oh, no, I didn?t. Here it is. I'm sorry. Q. I?m sorry, Governor. MR. Mine is marked 91. What What is yours marked? MS. CONLIN: No. No. I mean, my mm my with my notes on it. MR. Oh, no. Q. Look, if you would, at page 3, sort of down at the bottom. It It quotes you as saying "So the business groups in Eowa are the ones that told me in no uncertain terms that they were not happy with the direction under HUNEYWVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910 10 "ii 32 13 14 15 .16(VIDEO DEPO OF smear BRANSTAD) 436 Mr. Godfrey." Did you say that? A. We've said that time and time again during this ?w during this deposition. Yes. 9. Okay. If you would turh to page 5 of 9. A. Yes. Q. At the bettom of the page it says mm it quotes you as saying "He?s been an advocate for one side before he came into this position." Did you say that? A. I don't recall saying it specifically that way. I did, think, probably quote the Court decision that said that there was a particular case in which he really, instead of being a neutral, was an advocate. Q. You think there's a Court decision that quotes that quoted me A. Yeah. I've ~w We've cited that, and we've been through that before. Q. Okay. Well, except it doesn't have anything to do with Mr. Godfrey. It has to do with Mr. Walshire; correct? A. I don't know. We'd haye to go back and look at the this. COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) (VIDEO D390 OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 437 MR. It?s ground we?ve Ialready covered. A. Yeah. We've been over that. Do you want to go back over it? Q. Not'really; A. Well Well mm MR. There?s no question pending. Q. Is this correct, to your knowledge, that he's been an advocate for one side before he came into this position? Is that a correct statement, to your knowledge? A. I don't know that it's correct. Q. All right. This article also talks about the Work Loss Data Institute which analyzes injuries, payouts, and other factors in its periodic review. That's not an entity with which you?re familiar; correct? A. No, I'm not familiar with that entity. Q. Okay. A. I'm not familiar with this magazine either. Q. are you under the impression that the federal lawsuit has been dismissed? A. No. COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288w4910 (VIDEO DEPO 0F TERRY 438 Q. The federal lawsuit has been stayed; correct? That's what I understand. A. Yes. Q. It's not been dismissed. A. I understand it?s been stayed. You know,'there's this state lawsuit and there's that and Q. Do you understand that Well, let me ask.you this. Have you read the Godfrey versus State of Iowa, et al., opinion issued by the Supreme Court? A. No. Q. Do you know what it says? A. I?ve been briefed by Brenna Findley about it. Q. And 9* And understanding of your the possibility of you having.personal liability? A. Well, as I understand it, the Court said that the attorney general, who previously had always been able to decide whether or not something was done within the scope of employment the governor, can?t make that deCision so it has to be made by a court. COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288"4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) - 439 Q. By a factmfinder; correct? A. Yeah. So it has to be made by a Court, as I understand ityou are found to be outside the scope of your employment, what?s the result of that? Do you know? A. Well, I'm not worried about that because I know what I did was within the scope of my employment. So I've never been worried about that. I Q.- I understand you?re not worried about it, but let's just assume for the purposes of the what I?m going to ask you w" A. I'm not going to make any assumptions. Q. Do you know what would happen if you were found to be outside of your scope of employment? A. No. MS. CONLIN: I believe that?s all I have, Governor, but_perhaps Mr. m? Mr. LaMaroa has some questions. THE WITNESS: Okay. We?re done? MS. CONLIN: Do you have any questions? THE WITNESS: Thank you. COURT LTD. (515) 288-4910 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 440 THE Off the record ending_the deposition on Tape 9 at 2924. (Deposition concluded at 7:24 The videotaped deposition of TERRY BRANSTAD is now complete. When transcribed, the_original of the deposition shall remain in the offices of Huney?Vaughn Court Reporters. The original exhibits shall be- returned to Ms. Conlin. (UNLESS OTHERWISE DIRECTED BY COUNSEL OR THE PARTIES HERETO, THE STENOGRAPHIC NOTES FOR THE FOREGOING DEPOSITION SHALL BE DESTROYED AFTER A PERIOD OF 3 YEARS FROM THE DATE OF OF SAID DEPOSITION.) HUNEYHVAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288?4910 (VIDEO DEPO or TERRY smears) - 441 I A I, the undersigned, a Certified Shorthahd Reporter and Notary Public of the State of Iowa, do hereby certify that acted as the Certified shorthand Reporter in the foregoing matter at the time and place indicated herein; that I took in shorthand the proceedings had at said time and place; that said shorthand notes were reduced to typewriting under my supervision and direction, and that the foregoing pages are a full and correct transcript of the shorthand notes so taken; that said deposition was not submitted for review. I further certify that I am Ineither attorney nor counsel for, or related to or employed by any of the parties in the feregoing matter, and further that I am met a relative or employee of any attorney or counsel employed by the parties hereto, or financially interested in the action. EN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand and seal this 10th day of December, 2014. CERTIFIED EHORTHAND REPORTER AND NOTARY PUBLIC COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288*4910