IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF PHILADELPHIA COUNTY
FIRST JUDICIAL DISTRICT OF 
CIVIL TRIAL DIVISION

ESTATE OF BARON D. ADAMS, NOVEMBER TERM, 2010

BARON K. ADAMS, Administrator

VS
-OFFICER MICHAEL WEXLER NO. 01150

And OFFICER CLARENCE IRVINE

Oral deposition of CAPTAIN FRANCIS HEALY,
ESQ., held in the Law Offices of CRAIG L. THORPE,
PC, 807 North 63rd Street, Philadelphia,
19151, commencing at 11:00 a.m. on
December 21, 2011, before Dorothy L. Johnson,

Registered Professional Reporter and Notary Public.

 

 

 

APPEARANCES:

LAW OFFICES OF CRAIG L. THORPE, P.C.
807 N. 63rd Street, Floor
Philadelphia, Pa. 19151

215?689?0500

BY: CRAIG L. THORPE, ESQUIRE

FOR THE PLAINTIFF

CITY OF PHILADELPHIA LAW DEPARTMENT
1515 Arch Street, 14th Floor
Philadelphia, Pa. 19102
215*683?5381

BY: ARMANDO BRIGANDI,
FOR THE DEFENDANT

ESQUIRE, ESQUIRE

 

 

 

Questions by Mr.

MARKED AS:


Healy 11
Healy 8
Healy 1
Division
Healy 2
Record
Healy 9
Healy 10

 

I 
Thorpe Page 4

EXHIBITS

DESCRIPTION PAGE
Notice 10
Training Document 22
Module 24, CIT 31
Information Systems 53
Investigation Review 63
Document 98
Table of Contents 100

 

 

   

 

 

 

Yes, sir. I

2 . - i For purposes of the record, l'll attach a

3 opy of the court order and deposition notice.

4 - 4 MR. BRIGANDI: This isn't the notice you
5 5 sent me. I received one dated November -

6 Whereupon CAPTAIN FRANCIS T. HEALY, ESQ MR. THORPE: The follow-up notice. That
7 was sworn and questioned as follows: 7 was the ?rst notice.

8 . - 3 MR. BRIGANDI: Ireceived one dated

9 BY MR. THORPE: 9 November 7, 2011, which does not mention any
10 Captain, who are you employed with 10 topics. [tjust said, "The deponent is

11 currently? 11 instructed to bring with him Police Directives
12 A City of Philadelphia Police Department. 12 I36, 10 and CIT Training", which I believe you
13 In what capacity? 13 received. 

14 A Special Advisor to Police Commissioner 14 THE COURT: I'il attach them both. This
[5 Ramsey. 15 will be for the record.

16 How long have you had that position as 16 (Whereupon, Notice was
17 Special Advisor to the Commissioner? 17 marked for identification.)

18 A Since Commissioner Timoney. 18 (CD4 Marked for Identification)

19 What year was that? 19 - - 

20 A 1999 or '98, I believe. 20 BY MR. THORPE:

21 You know you are here as a result of a 21 So you know, Captain Heaiy, [am asking -
22 court order and a deposition request for a corporate 22 the notice says, "Please take notice that plaintiff

23 designee to testify about certain matters in the 23 by his attorney will take the oral deposition of the
24 case of Baron Adams? 24 City of Philadelphia Police Department's corporate

7 8

1 designee to testify on behalf of the defendants 1 Court dated June 14, 2011 indicates, under

2 commencing on - ?rst notice was Monday, 2 produced, "Corporate designee will testify

3 October 31st, 2011, 10:00 am. at the Law Of?ces 3 regarding development, training practices

4 Craig L. Thorpe, RC, 807 North 63th Street, 4 implementation assessment reviews and

5 Philadelphia, Pa. for the purposes of discovery 5 discipline under Detective 136", and to do that
6 before a Notary Public or some other authorized by 6 within 90 days.

7 law to administer oaths. 7 In addition, you sent me a letter dated

8 "The deposition will be continue day 8 January 3rd, 2010. It is addressed to Mr.

9 to day until completed. Deponent is instructed to 9 Straw, my supervisor.

10 bring with him or her and be prepared to testify 10 In that letter you asked for a corporate

[1 regarding all instruction and training material 11 designee regarding Directive 136 and CIT

12 pertaining to Police Directives 10, 34, 43, 136, as 12 strategy.

13 well as any and all directives and or memoranda 13 There were no other topics listed in that

14 pertaining to use of force and self-defense training 14 letter.

15 required for the Philadelphia Police Of?cers, and 15 On the February 15, 2011 you directed a
16 all training received and completed by the 16 letter to me. Once again, you asked for a

17 defendants in their training or preparation as 17 corporate designee regarding training in the

18 of?cers for the City of Philadelphia". 18 implementation of Directive 136 and CIT

19 And a follow-up notice went out on 19 strategy and tactics.
20 November 7th. 20 There are no other topics listed in that
21 Are you prepared to discuss those 21 letter. To be clear, this witness is here
22 topics here today? 22 today to testify about Directive 136 and CIT
23 MR. BRIGANDI: Before you answer that, for 23 training.
24 the record, the discovery order signed by the 24 He is not here to talk about any other

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[g

 

9 10
1 topics. He is versed on Directive 10. To the 1 into play when you are dealing with a mentally
2 extent be can answer things about Directive 10, 2 ill or a severely mentally disabled person
3 I will allow him trainer 3 situation. Am I correct on that understanding?
4 on Directive 10. That's what he's here to 4 MR. BRIGANDI: That's your understanding?
5 testify about. 5
6 If you want an additional witness to 6 MR. THORPE: That's what I asked.
7 testify about other topics, then send me the 7 Am I correct on that understanding,
7 8 notice. And I will provide you subject to 8 Captain Healy?
9 objection, I will provide you with the 9 THE WITNESS: Is there a question pending?
10 appropriate witness. 10 BY MR. THORPE:
11 This witness, Captain Healy, cannot Yes. Is there interplay between other
12 testify to every subject in the book. 12 departmental directives and the performances of an
13 MR. THORPE: I'm sure. But I'm sure 13 of?cer's duty under Directive I36 and under 
14 Captain Healy can testify to all of those 14 A Are other directives applicable, as well?
15 directives that overlap with CIT training and 15 Yes.
16 overlap with 136 training. 16 A Yes.
17 MR. BRIGANDI: If there's any sort of I7 We will touch on those as we go through,
18 relation to CIT Training, I'm sure he can 18 I'm sure.
19 answer that as it relates to CIT Training. 19 Could you give me a little
20 MR. THORPE: That's all I'm concerned 21] background, starting with your education. I know
21 about. I'm not looking to independently analyze 21 you went to the University of Penn. When did you
22 those other directives. But I understand from 22 graduate from there, and what schooling did you have
23 my experience that a lot of the operations and 23 after that? I
24 directives that apply to police of?cers come 24 A My undergrad degree was from Temple
11 12
1 University, 1988 in accounting. Then I went to 1 What about Directive 136?
2 Temple Law School, graduated in 1993. 2 A I'm familiar with 136. I'm not familiar
3 I went to a Master's or LLM from 3 with how they teach it at the Academy.
4 Temple in 1996. I have a Master's Degree from the 4 Do you know who is familiar with how it is
5 University of Penn in 2001 in government I 5 taught at the Academy?
6 administration. 6 A I would defer to the Captain at the
7 Can you give me a resume of your 7 Academy.
8 background of your employment with the City of 3 Who would that he?
9 Philadelphia? 9 A Captain Maye, 
10 A I was hired as a police of?cer in May of 10 Now, you are familiar with Directive 136;
11 1990; functioned as a police officer until I was 11 is that correct?
12 elevated into the Police Commissioner's Of?ce in 12 A Yes, sir.
13 I998. 13 Do you know when Directive 136 was first
14 Have you ever done instruction and I4 implemented?
15 training at the Police Academy? 15 A First implementedyou know when were the most recent
17 As an of?cer you did receive training at [7 updates for Directive 
18 the Police Academy; is that correct? 18 A If you show it to me, I can tell you the
19 A Correct. 19 actual date.
20 Are you familiar with the training 20 I will show you this, because I do have a
21 practices of recruits at the Police Academy for 21 copy that's marked. But before I do that, did you
22 subjects, including CIT Training and Directive 136? 22 review any documents today in preparation for your
23 A CIT Training is not trained at the 23 deposition?
24 Academy. 24 A I reviewed materials for my CIT Program,

 

 

 



 

 

 

 

 

 

13 14
1 as well as I looked over Directive 10 this morning. I I believe one of the first to implement
2 Let's start with CIT Training. What is 2 the model was Texas, Houston?
3 CIT Training? 3 A No, it was Memphis.
4 - A CIT stands for Crisis Intervention Team 4 Memphis, Tennessee; that's right, and then
5 training; it's a 40-hour block of training involved 5 Texas.
6 in the identi?cation of individuals in crisis and 6 A We replicated that model here in
7 the development and practical uses of deescalation 7 Philadelphia. Putting the partners together took
8 techniques of how to deal with people that are in 3 some time. We worked behind the scenesto get it up
9 crisis. 9 and running. -
10 When did the Philadelphia Police 10 7 The ?rst of?cers to receive
11 Department develop a CIT Program? 11 training was in January of 2007.
12 A The CIT Program was in the developmental 12 This training with CIT is it available to
13 stages for quite some time from Police Commissioner 13 all the recruits and all of the of?cers in the
14 Timoney's reign until probably until 2007. Iwas in 14 Philadelphia Police Department?
15 the development with the partners of CITnot available for recruits. It is
'16 a Philadelphia Police Program. It's a joint program 16 not designed for recruits.
17 with a lot of different partners; Department of 17 The model brought forth, the actual
18 Behavioral Health, Mental Health Association of 18 model, is designated or designed for
19 They are all players in the CIT I9 ?rst?responding of?cers. So that excludes a lot
20 Training and protocols. 20 of of?cers in the Philadelphia Police Department
21 We had to get everybody to the table 21 that are not ?rst responders.
22 and development a curriculum, because CIT is not a 22 The training is not done by the
23 Philadelphia Model. It is a model that was 23 Philadelphia Police Department. It is actually
24 replicated out of otherjnrisdictions. 24 professionals, who come in with experience, and they
15 16
1 explain-it to the of?cers; I verify -- I can give you documentation to
2 It's a very labor intensive training- 2 verify whether or not Wexler and or Irvine
3 And that's why the national model calls for 3 received CIT Training and when they received
4 volunteers, ?rst-line volunteers. 4 it.
5 In Philadelphia ?rst-line volunteers 5 MR. THORPE: I'll accept that for now.
6 are patrol of?cers, those officers that are 6 - BY MR. THORPE:
7 assigned to districts. Those of?cers are eligible 7 Since this is not offered to all officers
8 to volunteer for the program if they want to 3 in the Department, can you tell me how does the CIT
9 volunteer. 9 Training offered to the volunteer of?cers, who want
10 Do you know whether Of?cers Wexler and 10 to participate in the program, differ from Directive
11 Irvine, the of?cers that are involved in the 11 136?
12 incident with my client, whether they had received [2 A It does not differ from 136 at all. I36
13 CIT Training? 13 is the basic, the bar that everyone in the
14 A I don't have any independent knowledge 14 department is expected to comply with.
15 whether they did or did not. 15 CIT is another- like I said, the
16 Do you have a list of officers who 16 minimum bar for the Philadelphia Police Department
17 received CIT Training since the inception of program 17 is Detective 136. 136, however, the policy
18 until now? 18 statement does not actually help of?cers to
19 A Yes. 19 deescalate, how to deescalate, how to interact with
20 Do you have that list with you today? 20 individuals. 
21 A No. 21 We have certain standards we can
22 asked you to produce that list, would 22 establish by policy. But he can't make an of?cer
23 23 be good at it, ifyou know what I'm saying.
24 MR. BRIGANDI: I'll do this. I can 24 CIT is that mechanism. The reason

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

volunteer program is because there's a 1 Department Expands Crisis Intervention Team Training
2 synergy that's involved when the volunteer of?cer 2 Citywide for all Personnel", issued December 30,

3 is involved in the program. They want to be there; 3 2009.

4 they want to be able to interact, and they want to 4 Are you familiar with this document?
5 be able to help people in crisis. 5 A I didn't author it. It's from our public

6 It isimportant to know that crisis 6 affairs.? 7

7 is notjust mental health. It could be whatever; it 7 Are you familiar with that document?

8 could be situational crisis. Somebody has a very, 8 A I believe so, yes.

9 very bad day. They get laid off; they get ?red. 9 Does that document summarize the origin
10 How we respond to them in that 10 and the purpose for CIT training and its evolution
11 incident can make a big difference. If the of?cers ll of development in the City of Philadelphia?

12 are able to identify what they are dealing with, 12 A Yes.

13 realizing this the person is in some form of crisis, 13 MR. THORPE: I'll mark this Healy 11 for
14 versus in the middle of a criminal act or visa 14 the purposes for this deposition.

15 versa, the distinction of being able to 15 (Wherenpon, Healy 11, Training
16 differentiate is incredibly important on how the 16 Document was marked for

17 of?cer's tactics and training can come into play. 17 identi?cation.)

18 That's really what CIT is about, the 18

19 ability for the of?cers to shift gears and handle 19 BY MR. THORPE:
20 the situations differently. The sooner they can. 20 Of?cer, can you give me an overview or
21 shift gears, the less likelihood violence will 21 summary of the objectives for CIT Training as it
22 occur. 22 relates to mentally ill or severely mentally

23 I'm looking at a document actually that 23 disabled persons?
24 you authored. It is called, "Philadelphia Police 24 A The mission of CIT Program is reduce
I9 20

1 violent encounters between police and people in I How many hours are expected for of?cers
2 crisis through training, education and the 2 in CIT training to spend in training and development
3 collaboration of our shareholders. 3 and learning the techniques?

4 That's the whole mental health 4 A It's a 40-hour training block.

5 community. 5 In that 40 hours what's involved?

6 You said this is something that your team, 6 A The first portion of it is awareness, what

7 as it was putting together and designing this 7 it is and how they can recognize different things.

8 program, thought was bene?cial for ?rst?line 8 Family members and actual consumers have undergone
9 of?cers and first-line responders; is that correct? 9 some form of crisis usually have dealt with police

10 A That is correct. That's the national 10 of?cers will come into the class and give the

11 model as well. 11 of?cers a different perspective; they actually give

12 Now, how about all the patrol of?cers 12 a personal perSpective, so the of?cers are able to

13 for the City of Philadelphia don't have the bene?t 13 identify people in crisis, rather than criminal

14 of this; is that correct? 14 things.

15 A All the of?cers are expected to comply 15 So that's the ?rst step, to be able

16 with the other directives. And we have had other 16 to identify - the awareness, the identi?cation

17 mental health training available for of?cers on the 17 helps the of?cers shift gears much quicker, so they
18 street. 18 know actually what they are dealing with.

19 I'm trying to get an understanding of 19 In line with that third day of
20 what's the difference between the mental health 20 training we implemented a program called, "Hearing
21 training for of?cers who have not had CIT training, 21 distressing voices".
22 as opposed to of?cers who have? 22 That program, what it does is the
23 A It's the difference between a Class [01 in 23 of?cers walk around with MP3 Players on. The
24 college and a 201; that's all I can say. 24 voices that they hear actually replicate some of the

 

 

 

 

 

21

22.

 

 

 

 

1 voices that a person suffering from schizophrenia 1 the exercises. 

2 would hear. 7 2 It's called an EAR Model. And the

3 So it's not the end ali, be ail. 3 acronym stands for to engage, assess and resolve.

4 Schizophrenia is not the only thing. But it's 4 When the of?cers consciously go into
5 trying to give them a different perspective, like 5 a situation knowing someone is in crisis, the most

6 when you are trying to tell somebody some things, 6 dif?cult thing is to engage them.

7 different things, a lot of things may be going 7 If you can engage them, and get

3 through somehody's head. And what we do is we ask 8 through to them, you can buiid a level of con?dence
9 them to do certain exercises. So they know and 9 and trust, even in a very small period of time. And
10 understand how dif?cult it is to do some of the 10 we tell them different things, when you don't know,
11 simple things when they are hearing the all these 11 and somebody doesn't tell you how to do this we
12 different kinds of voices in your heads. 12 have all made mistakes.

13 That's kind of like an ah-hah moment 13 I'm happy to tell people my mistakes
14 in our training. The of?cers really get a grasp of 14 in the past, so they don't do the same things.

15 the big picture of how important the CIT program is, 15 I The goal really is engage an

16 I think. 16 individual. When they can engage them, the less

17 On Thursdays we begin the role plays. 17 likely had things are going to happen.

18 We take the concept of of?cer safety out of the 18 That's also the hardest part to do,

19 mix. 19 to engage them. But we give them different tricks
20 There's no guns, knivos, bombs, that 20 and tactics on how to engage and how to listen; and
21 kind of thing involved. The goal is - there's 21 how actually some of things we do as police of?cers
22 actually strategy on how to deescalate someone. And 22 can escalate.
23 what we do is we go through the actually, I give 23 It is important that you be careful.
24 the deescaiation portion just prior to them doing 24 When you do something in front of an average human

23 24

1 being, they may bite their tongue. 1 they'll turn around and stop.

2 A person that's suffering in some 2 Next question is, "What do you got?"
3 type of crisis at that point, if you do something 3 And I say to my of?cers, be

4 stupid, or you're just not paying attention to what 4 prepared; get them something. Don't lie to them,

5 you're saying or doing, you can actually escalate 5 and say you're going to get them a hamburger when
6 the situation, rather than deescalate it. 6 you're not.

7 So we teach them deescalation skills. 7 But if all else fails, and you can't

8 But we also teach them to be very careful that we 8 get through to somebody, that's always an easy

9 don't inadvertently escalate as well. 9 trick. Everybody has to do three things; drink, eat
10 You talked about tricks and techniques 10 and go to the bathroom.

11 that you often utilize. Can you share some of those 11 Once somebody thinks you care about
12 tricks and techniques that you would expect a 12 them, it makes a big difference. Sometimes the

13 trained of?cer to utilize after he ?nished your 13 outcome of can change on just the of?cer's

14 program. 14 attitude. And that's really what CIT is about.

15 A Believe it or not, one of. the easiest 15 I want to get into the speci?cs of CIT

16 when I say tricks, I don't mean that to be 16 and some of the training later. But now 1 want to
17 sarcastic. That's what one of the nurses from one 17 contrast that or compare it with Detective 136 and
18 of the hospitals said, "Listen. If you 18 the information that all Philadelphia Police

19 can't get through to somebody, and they're just 19 Of?cers are expected to learn and comply with. Can
20 literally ranting and raving, and you can't get 20 you tell me the difference there?

21 through to them, try one thing, very simply. 'Are 21 A Training and policy, two different things.
22 you hungry'?" 22 Policy is the standard that we expect our officers
23 And it's funny, no matter how bad or 23 to comply with.

24 how off somebody is, if you say, "Are you hungry," 24 There are instructions on how to do

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

25 26
1 certain things that the officers are told- This is 1 of 
2 how it shall be. That's the distinction between 2 Can you tell me how many hours an of?cer
3 policy and training, per se. 3 is expected to study in that particular curriculum?
4 The training on Directive 136 would 4 A I'm not sure of the exact hours. But
5 be making sure the of?cers are aware of what the 5 there's an hourly component put in there. The
6 department's policies are. Time is of no essence, 6 captain from the Academy would know the exact hours.
7 and that kind of issues. Those are important things 7 It's set forth by the State; the State tells us how
8 for the of?cers to know. But how to actually 8 many hours to teach on a subject matter.
9 deescalate something, you can't write into a policy. 9 If you are doing this training under
10 "You shall strike that. - .
11 deescalate someone when they are in some form of II If you are doing this training under
12 crisis", that's not what a policy is for. That's 12 CIT, are you expected to be evaluated and graded on
13 what training is for. 13 your performance during that curriculum?
14 During the course of their training 14' Is there any way to assess whether
15 in the Academy, they are given basic guidelines on 15 the person who took the course got it?
16 how to deal with peeple with I forget the title. 16 MR. BRIGANDI: Are you talking about 
17 But it's issued to the Municipal Police Of?cers 17 MR. THORPE: CIT.
18 Training Education Commission. 18 THE WITNESS: We don't have a test, per
19 They have training on how to deal 19 se, at the end of the class.
20 with people in crisis. I forget the title of it. 20 BY MR. THORPE:
2] But it's very similar to that. 21 How about any evaluation or follow-up?
22 Is that a written curriculum with the 22 A I'm in the process of developing an
23 Department? 23 annualized training or biannual, we're trying to do
24 A That's a written curriculum from the State 24 that, yes.
27 28
1 As it stands now, a person can go through 1 identi?cation.)
2 the 40 hours training; how do you know that they got hours, other than the hopes 3 BY MR. THORPE:
4 and aspirations that?it sunk in? 4 I want you to take a look at it. Tell me
5 A We don't test new. It is something we're 5 if you identify that. And is that the Mogul 24 that
6 looking forward to doing for all of our directives. 6 you use in your program?
7 Back to 136. You say it's a policy. 7 A Yes. This is the portion of the training
8 Other than 136, are there any other policies or 8 that I actually give.
9 directives or memoranda or guidelines in the City of 9 MR. THORPE: That's Healy 8, for the
10 Philadelphia that is designed to help the of?cer in 10 record.
11 his encounter with mentally ill or severely mentally 11 BY MR. THORPE:
12 disturbed persons? 12 In that it has a copy of Directive I36.
13 A On the last page of Directive you will see 13 And you say in addition to Directive 136, you said
14 other directives that are related. 14 the related procedures to Directive 136, the
15 I'm looking at a copy of Directive 136, 15 of?cers in the Philadelphia Police Department will
16 which for the purposes of? in your Crisis 16 be trained on would be Directives 10, 22, and 111?
17 Intervention Manual Mogul 24, you have an attachment 17 A Correct.
18 of Directive 136 and 110 and Directive 22. You use 18 As noted?
19 that in your crisis intervention training; is that 19 A Yes.
20 correct? 20 When you are performing this training,
21 A Yes. 21 Directive 136, do you cover those directives as
22 MR. THORPE: I'll mark this as Healy 8. 22 well?
23 (Whereupou, Healy 8, Module 24, 23 A No. I cover Directive 136 and 22.
24 CIT was marked for 24 That's with the CIT training?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

29 30

1 A Yes. 1 would you expect them to have? 

2 Do you do any training for of?cers of 2 A I?m not sure I understand the question.

3 Directive 136 outside the CIT training? 3 What should an of?cer, who has been

4 A No. 4 adequately trained under Directive 136, and the

5 From your experience as an of?cer, and in 5 other training related to deescalation as provided

6 training Directive 136, can you tell me what is it 6 by the State of what would you expect
7 that you would expect the average patrol of?cer to 7 that officer to be able to do when encountering a

8 understand about from Detective 136 about 8 situation with a mentally ill or severely mentally

9 interacting with severely mentally disabled persons 9 disturbed person? . -

10 or mentally ill individuals? 10 A I would expect him to slow things down,

11 A Time is of no essence. There's no need 11 take his time; barring any exigent - his own life

12 for immediate use of force, usually, and just the 12 or somebody else's life is imminently in danger;

[3 understanding that people in crisis are -- they need 13 basically everything slows down, except for unless
14 special attention. 14 the of?cer is imminent danger or somebody else is
15 . That's why we have special policy 15 in imminent danger. Under those circumstances, you
16 particularly on the subject matter. 16 need to take immediate police action. But at the,

17 Would you expect the of?cer to have some 17 reading all the paperwork, the rule would be for the
18 understanding about deescalation as a result of 18 of?cer to take his time; slow down.

19 being trained under Directive 136? 19 Would the of?cer under 136 training,

20 A I would expect them to have some levels of 20 independent of CIT now, would they know what type of
21 deescalation, not just speci?cally from 136, but 21 actions could potentially escalate, as opposed to
22 from all the other training they received in the 22 deescalate?
23 Academy and in the Advanced Training Unit. 23 A Well, I don't do the training. I can't
24 What expectations of deescalation training 24 say yes or no. I know there's other training out

31 32

I there. 1 If the of?cer can get through to an

2 Every of?cer several years ago 2 individual, get to talk to them in a speaking voice,

3 underwent from the MPO Commission; they are the ones 3 it's a win, win. Because oftentimes when you get

4 that require basically CLE's for police of?cers. 4 into a communication, it's less hostile, and

5 One of the subject matters was 5 likelihood of any violence happening on both sides,
6 dealing with people in crisis or people with mental 6 because everybody's fear level drops down,

7 challenges. I forget the title of the program. 7 intimidation level, whatever you want to call it.

8 That was an awareness training. So 8 The best way can describe to my

9 the of?cers are aware deescalation is a skill that 9 of?cers is if you have ever been in an argument

10 needs to be worked on. I believe it is touched on 10 with somebody, and they just don't get it. You say,
11 heavily in the Academy. But 1 don't teach on that. 11 "That chair is black". And somebody say's, "No,

12 So I can't comment on that. 12 it's white".

13 Let's talk about deescalation under CIT. 13 Eventually, you just feel that stress

14 What are the components of deescalation that you 14 that's building up, "No, no. You don't get it."

15 attempt to get across to your of?cers? 15 And when they ?nally say, "Oh, that
16 A The EAR Model, 16 chair? yeah, that's black".

17 How, using your role playing techniques 17 When you feel that decrease in

18 and your case studies, how do you get across to that [8 pressure, I say that is engagement. 1 say the

19 of?cer how he is supposed to or should approach 19 minute you engage, you are dropping that pressure
20 this situation? 20 down. And that pressure often can get of?cers

21 A Engaging, that's what's stressed upon. 21 hurt.

22 Engaging is the most dif?cult and actually the most 22 They oftentimes don't understand that
23 bene?cial part of reducing a violent encounter or 23 the tactics that they are trained for officer safety

24 any encounter, really. 24 purposes, are actually counter, or they can actually

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

bad position when you are dealing with 1 The more you talk with somebody, the
2 a person in crisis. 2 more they connect with you. And then it gets to a
3 Knowing who you are dealing with, 3 point where, "Listen, please do me a favor. Please
4 identifying, shifting gears ?rst from a person in 4 step down. Let's talk. I'm not looking to touch

5 crisis, versus a criminal, means having to change 5 you. But let's talk. You are scaring me."

6 tactics. 6 Being very honest and forthright with
7 That's how we engage. We use '7 people is how you engage.

8 anything visible the engaging part is very 8 Sometimes people won't give you the
9 simple; nothing they don't already know. We just 9 verbal clues. The verbal clues are easy. That's

10 try to take it to the next level. 10 kinda like ammunition being thrown at the of?cer
11 And we practice it. Engaging is if 11 that he can use, regurgitate and throw back. We
12 you are ranting and raving about something, not 12 teach them that. Don't ignore that stuff.

13 ignoring what you are saying. 13 A lot of of?cers 'will come on a

14 You are standing on a bridge. A lot 14 scene and say, need your name".

15 is hypothetical. If you are standing on a bridge, 15 Why? He's got it on his form. He
16 and the person is looking to jump off a bridge, 16 needs it on the 48. So we ask some questions. I say
17 having an argument over, You don't want to do 17 in reality you are really not listening.

18 this." Yes, I do; no, you don't," is useless. 18 You need to pay a attention, because
19 He does want to do it. That's why 19 they are going to throw a lot of stuff at you. And
20 he's there. Talking to him about his family. 20 if you listen, you can throw it back and talk for

21 "Where is your mother"? Whatever it is. hate my 21 hours. -

22 mother. My mother hated me as a child". 22 If you talk for hours with somebody,
23 "Well, what did she do?" 23 you've won. No harm, no foul to anybody, that's a
24 That gives the of?cer time to talk. 24 win, win. So that's how we engage.

35 36

1 There's also nonverbal clues, such as incident?

2 there was an incident; a longstanding homeless guy 2 A I give some of the stupid things that I

3 in one of the districts, who was always a cop 3 have done as a cop. Police of?cers have a very

4 ?ghter, and they?d always pick straws. "Oh, I 4 sick sense of humor sometimes.

5 don't want to have to deal with him today. 5 One of the points I make is you need
6 Well, one of the officers was able to 6 to be extremely professional when on location. You
7 engage him through - he had a Marine Corps emblem 7 need to watch what you say, what you do, because,
8 on. He connected to that, said, "Are you a Marine? 8 like I said, these people are in crisis. They will

9 The guy stood to an attention, 9 not bite their tongue. If they embarrass or

10 rattled off all this stuff. He said, "Listen, 10 humiliate you, it's escalated.

ll Marine. Marine to Marine, I need you something stupid or

12 favor." 12 unprofessional, then shame on. You deserve to be
13 He said, got a complaint. Can you 13 embarrassed or humiliated.

14 please take your business down the street." 14 I said don't get all upset,

15 He went down the street. 15 especially in these scenarios. I expect it at all

16 That's how simple engagement can be. 16 times for cops to be professional. But cops make
17 But the guy took the time to look at what he was 17 goofy jokes sometimes. I said you need to be

18 wearing. It could be whatever bag you're carrying, 18 careful of that.

19 a lapel or a pin you are wearing, anything, a class 19 I said you need to be careful of

20 ring. The of?cers learn to focus in on those 20 stereotypes, what you say to somebody. I say some
21 things to try to engage. Engaging is just being 21 of the things that I have done.
22 able to talk. 22 And actually the case that I used, I
23 Let's shift over to the what are the 23 said I have raised my girlfriend's son since he was
24 don't dos, in terms of an of?cer escalating an 24 three months old. I said an endearing term that I

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[5

 

37 38
1 used when he was a little kid was Pumpkin Head; he's 1 professional, especially when dealing with someone
2 my little Pumpkin Head. I mean no harm. I mean 2 in crisis to avoid escalating.
3 he's mine. 3 Some of the other things that
4 I handled a disturbance once years 4 escalate that actually when we are trained as police
5 and years ago, and everybody was in crisis. But I 5 officers when we are dealing with criminals, it
6 get in there. I had everybody singing, "Kumbaya", 6 actually gets us in trouble. 
7 and everything was fine. And I walked out there 7 Some things are like boxing people
8 door. There was this little black kid at the end of in. We instinctively do that as police of?cers
9 the door. He was the absolute most adorable child 9 when we're looking for a bad guy to ?ee; staring
10 you've ever seen. And I reached down and said, "Oh, 10 down at people, and being'cognizant we don?t
11 look at the cute little Pumpkin Head". 11 stare down people just because we think we're
12 And all hell broke loose, because 12 better. The bad guy it's a very verbal clue on
i3 they thought I was insulting him. 13 whether or not you know you are going to have a
14 So I use that as a point saying you 14 problem. It's a police tactic for catching bad
15 need to be careful what you say. - 15 person. 
16 i said professionally, you need to be 16 You learn that on the street. But
17 professional at all times. I said although I had no 17 that same tactic can actually place a person in
18 intention of being sarcastic or anything like that, 18 crisis in more crisis, because he feels like he
19 I mean it's an endearing term to me. But they 19 can't breathe. If have-not shifted gears, and you
20 didn't understand that. 20 realize you are dealing with a person in crisis,
21 I said you have to understand 21 versus a criminal, you're not changing your tactics.
22 different races, different cultures, they perceive 22 And that causes a problem. The best analogy I can
23 things differently. 23 use for the officer is I don't know if you're
24 So you need to he utmost 24 familiar with this, but when we go up to the range,
39 40
we need to shoot strong band and a weak hand. 1 If you see somebody getting jittery
2 If you don't switch your eyes, the 2 like that, I said often all it takes is a step
3 bullets are off target. 3 backwards. And also you will see the pressure drop
4 So in that analogy, I said when you 4 down. Just as if somebody was in your personal
5 come on scene, you seen on shift gears and go into 5 space, and they took a step backwards.
6 crisis person mode, versus criminal mode. And that 6 I said making of?cers more aware of
7 staring down somebody that you are trying to 7 those types of things is incredibly important.
8 intimidate them, hoping they don't attack you, that 8 Those types of things, if you forget to shift gears,
9 does not work for you here. So to contact 9 can actually put you in a had position. And you
10 with a person in crisis puts them in more crisis. 10 don't even know you are standing there.
11 The other thing is -- you need to be 1 1 One of the consumers said it this
12 very careful of this -- personal space. I would get 12 way. This was a consumer that dealt with police in
13 very close to an officer in class, and eventually 13 the past as one of the training. He mentioned that,
14 you will see the of?cer move to the left or move to 14 "it feels like I can't breathe, and I'm panicking.
15 the right, because he wants to get away from me, 15 All a want to do is get away. If I run over that
16 because you are in his personal space. 16 police of?cer, I don't even see him. I just need
17 Well, we all know the clues when we 17 to breathe".
18 see that, we can feel it, you feel it yourself. I 18 Having the officers know that, that
19 said if you see that type of behavior, I said you 19 that's what somebody else is thinking, because of
20 have to understand that people in crisis their 20 what they're doing, I said take a step back.
21 personal space may be altered. Ours may be two 21 One of the things for deescalation
22 feet, three feet; there's may be five or six. I 22 is, I said if a person in crisis runs, what have we
23 said he cognizant. You've shifted gears; you know 23 lost?
24 what you're dealing with. 24 I said we instinctively chase people,

 

 

 

 

41

42

 

 

 

 

1 because we chase bad people; that's what we're 1 various equipment, like handcuffs? Does that is

2 trained to do. 2 that something that would escalate a situation?

3 I said recognizing that you have a 3 A Oftentimes it can deescalate very quickly.
4 person in crisis, and he runs down the street, 4 If somebody is out of control, and they need to be

5 there's no need to tackle him, and run after him and 5 put in control, I have the ability to contain them,

6 chase him over. It all depends though. If he's 6 oftentimes putting them in handcuffs can avoid them
7 going to go hurt somebody, it's a different story. 7 and me getting hurt.

3 But for the most part, if they are 8 Now, let's change the scenario. Now,

9 running to get out of your way, they are looking 9 hypothetically you have an individual you

10 oftentimes just to get out of your way. Walk down 10 approached, and there's a suspicion that they have
11 street. They will be standing there. They are not 11 some type of mental illness, and they are calm at

l2 marathon runners, for the most part. 12 the time. And then for whatever reasons the officer
13 So that kinda notion, so you slowed 13 grabs his handcuffs in that situation. Would you

14 everything down, you know what you got. And if he 14 expect that to escalate or deescalate that

15 runs away, and you don't catch him, what have you 15 situation?

16 lost? You did not tackle somebody, because the 16 A On those facts alone, I would say just

17 minute you tackle him, he's going to strike back. 17 taking the handcuffs out with no reason, or there's
18 And then you're going to take the appropriate 18 no behaviorthat would indicate a need handcuffs
19 action. But is that necessary? 19 would probably, I believe, escalate it.
20 That kind of stuff we try to go 20 You would expect an of?cer who has been
21 through with the of?cers, so we can, hopefully, 21 trained under CIT to understand that, that if a
22 avoid a lot of things that they actually put 22 person is calm, this might be one of the factors
23 themselves through. 23 that could escalate the situation?
24 What about in terms of engaging them with 24 A Yes and no. There's two ways the officers

43 44

I are involved with somebody in crisis. One, it could I transported, whether he likes it or not. That's not

2 be I'm coming on the scene, and there's no record of 2 my discretion at that point.

3 him; no family member has gotten a 302 Petition - I 3 So in that case, even though he's not

4 don't know what I'm walking into. And in those 4 doing anything, it is possible the of?cer would put

5 scenarios I'm just trying to deescalate what I have. 5 him in handcuffs. 

6 The other scenario an officer could 6 What about voluntary compliance? Do you
7 be walking into is that he has a radio report to 7 in CIT training try to get the officers to

3 tranSport this person who has been 302'd, 8 understand that there's a phase of voluntary

9 involuntarily committed; the family has the 9 compliance?

10 paperwork, mental health has been signed off. My 10 A Absolutely.

11 job is to transport that person. 11 What is voluntary compliance, and how does
12 In those situations somebody could [2 that work?

13 theoretically be sitting there doing nothing, I 13 A The thing with voluntary compliance is the
14 would say to my of?cer they have to transport with 14 fact that a lot of times with the police officer

15 handcuffs for safety. 15 encounter, "I'm not going to be able to arrest them,
16 But I can also see them coming out, 16 and I'm not going to be able to voluntary commit

17 and the guy is not doing anything; he's already 17 them".

18 checked their paperwork. And I use the scenario, 18 So voluntary compliance, if my

19 Little Johnny sitting on a couch, eating Rice 19 of?cers can convince somebody to go to a hospital
20 Crispies. [fl have to put handcuffs on him, I 20 to get checked out, it's called a 20!, which is a

21 would do it very quickly, get it over with, so that 21 voluntary commitment; he voluntarily chooses to go
22 there's no, "What are you doing; what are you 22 to the hospital to get checked out; it's not an

23 doing?" 23 involuntary.

24 Once he?s in handcuffs - he's being 24 My of?cers are basically -- [walk

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

45 46
1 them through, especially in the CIT Program, if you 1 "Listen, you know what? I'm really worried about
2 can convince somebody that you don't have any other 2 you. You know, I'm worried that you're hearing
3 answer for it, to go to the hospital, because you?re 3 voices. Could you please do me a favor? 1 have a
4 not sure, that you think that's something is wrong, 4 doctor you can see. You can go see, and you leave
5 but you want them to get checked out, it's a win, 5 whenever you want. But I would feel a lot more
6 win. 6 comfortable if you Would just go get yourself
7 We will take anybody anywhere, at any 7 checked out. I'm really, really worried."
3 time under voluntary. If you tell me you want to go 8 When you say that to somebody, that's
9 to hospital, "But I don't want to go to Episcopal. 9 a whole lot different. People will often say
10 I want to go somewhere else", I make it clear that 10 listen, even if they don't want to go, they will go
11 you can call the supervisor. 1f the supervisor says 11 with you just to make you happy. That's a win, win.
12 no, you give me a call. 12 You get them in the hospital; and, more importantly,
13 Our goal is to get whoever wants 13 another officer does not have to deal with that
14 to go to a special hospital, if they want to go 14 person.
15 there, and it's in Philadelphia, I'll get you there, 15 The next time you come across him, if
16 because that's a win, win for us, for voluntary. 16 he doesn't get help, it may he a lot worse. If you
17 People go in the car and there's a way to do 17 can get them to a hospital voluntarily, that's one
18 that. There's a way to say, listen, if an of?cer 18 of the purposes of deescalation. That's a big
19 sees somebody is acting out, not enough to 302 them, 19 thing; that's a win, win for us.
20 but, you know what, they are hearing voices. It's 20 What about the situation when you feel
21 one thing to say, "Buddy, I think you are screwed up 21 like for your own safety you should handcuff'this
22 in the head. You need to see a doctor". 22 person? Is it taught or part of your training under
23 People get defensive over that. 23 CIT, you can say to the guy, "Look, Buddy, I think I
24 But if you turn around and say, 24 need to take you in. But want to put these
47 48
1 handcuffs on you, because it will make it easier for 1 on everybody's part. And that's the win.
2 me to do my job, and transport you", as opposed to 2 Oftentimes, I tell my CIT Officers,
3 ripping them out and throwing them on? 3 it's best if you can, to explain; because the other
4 A I have to say that with a caveat. It 4 side of that is you have to take them off.
5 depends on the situation. Sometimes it's easier if 5 It's easy to get them on. But
6 you explain up front. But sometimes you get the 6 sometimes it?s hell getting them off; I say because
7 feel for a situation that no matter what I say, I '7 you just deescalated the person; you've gained a
8 just spent an hour deescalation you and calming you 8 little bit of trust with them. And you don't need
9 down, I may spring it on, and put the cuffs on, and 9 to lie to them. I mean you are taking the to the
10 be done. It may be the safest course of action. So 10 hospital, or some cases they may not transport them
11 I may look at the facts and circumstances at the 11 with the handcuffs.
12 time. 12 It all depends on the of?cers,
13 But for the most part, it is always 13 whether they think it's in the best interests of the
14 better to explain, if you can. Because oftentimes, 14 patient, as well as them.
15 they don't know; they think they are being arrested. 15 If they think they can transport them
16 [t is nice to say, "You are not being 16 safely without handcuf.s, they do. Some hospitals
17 arrested. This is only for my own personal safety." 17 mandate it.
18 A lot of times you have no problems. 18 What happens is people get all upset
19 But sometimes and I defer to the of?cer's 19 at the hospital. They tell them before they put
20 judgment on the street on that one. 20 them in the wagon I think Episcopal is one of
21 If I said it took us an hour to get 21 them. You have to be handcuffed to walk through
22 to this point, I don't want to go backwards. We got 22 their ER. They explain to them. They say, Listen,
23 him calm. And the next thing you know we clicked 23 I will transport you this way. But when I get
24 him, and it was done. This way there's less force 24 there, I'm going to have to put handcuffs on you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

49 50
1 Don't get upset." 1 MR. BRIGANDI: Which ones?
2 The thing is just to not scare 2 MR. THORPE: All ofthem.
3 people. let them know what's coming. And it helps 3 THE WITNESS: I know we have them.
4 you to get them in and out of your custody, and into 4 BY MR. THORPE:
5 somebody else's custody much quicker. 5 Have you ever seen an index of directives
6 Let's take this over to 136. In 136 with 6 for the Department, either as a recruit or as -
7 thesame approach, is it taught to the of?cers 7 A This is on our intranet website?
8 before they leave the Academy or during follow-up in 8 MR. THORPE: We'll mark this as Heaiy 1.
9 PO training in terms of the types of things that can 9 (Whereupon, Heaiy 1, Information
10 escalate a situation, as opposed to the types of 10 Systems Division was marked for
11 things or techniques that can deescaiate a 11 identi?cation.)
12 situation. 12
13 A I don't know speci?cally where the 13 BY MR. THORPE:
14 Academy teaches that. But I know this issue is 14 I'm looking at the Directive Index. And,
15 taught. There's different components in the Academy 15 of course, the only directive that I see that
16 training, crisis management, mental illness 16 addresses anything about mental illness or mentally
17 training. There?s a whole bunch of different 17 disturbed persons or severely mentally disturbed
18 training that kind of overlaps. And I'm not sure. 18 persons is Directive 136.
19 That's where the Academy staff would be able to teil 19 Are you aware of any other policies
20 you where that is or if that is exactly taught. But 20 or memoranda that outlines or serves as guidelines
21 it is my assumption that it is touched on in the 21 to of?cers, who do not have CIT training, other
22 Academy. 22 than 136? 7'
23 Are you familiar with the directives of 23 A When dealing with somebody in crisis?
24 the Philadelphia Police Department? 24 Yes.
51 52
A Probably Directive 11], which is I A Correct, sir.
2 forget the title of it. It's crisis something. 2 Where are you referring?
3 "Crisis Response Critical Incident 3 A To Asterisk No. 6. That indicates there a
4 Negotiations"? 4 general teletype was sent out amending this policy
5 A "Barricaded Persons, Hostage Situations". 5 on 7/1/09. 
6 All right. 6 The last additions to that were the
7 Since Directive 136 has been around, 7 changes in the CRC. The Crisis Response Centers
8 I think the last edition I have of it being modi?ed 8 were changed. The City changed them around
9 was 7/21/2000. 9 somewhat. Wejnst modi?ed our Directive
10 I'm trying to understand the need, if 10 accordingly. 
11 you already had Directive 136, for the 11 Thank you.
12 implementation of Crisis Intervention Training 12 What was going on between - well,
13 what was going on - 13 prior to the CIT initiative being implemented, that
14 A Let's back up for a second. If you look 14 required the need for the additional training for
15 at the back page. i 15 the of?cers?
16 Directive 16 A Weil, it's a long story. I'll be happy to
17 A Yes. You will see the Asterisk No. 6. l7 tell you. It's a good story.
18 The last time this policy was amended was 7/1/2009. 18 Back when Commissioner Timoney came
19 We don't change the - 19 to town -- I think it was in 1999 there was a
20 You don't change it on the front? 20 mentally disturbed individual shot and, I believe,
2] A Correct. 21 killed at the 30th Street Station by AMTRAK Police,
22 So let's correct that, for the record. 22 not Philadelphia Police, but it was AMTRAK Police.
23 A Appendix A, page - 23 I'm very familiar with that.
24 The last page of the document? 24 A As a result of that, Commissioner Timoney

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



 

53 54
1 asked to review this whole policy. What's our 1 before"?
2 policy on this, because he believed, not knowing all 2 So seeing that is when we
3 the facts, that the of?cers may have run in too 3 collaborated with the FTAC, Family Training and
4 soon, whatever the case may be. 4 Advocacy something. It's through the Department of
5 I So we looked at it, and retooled what 5 Behavior and Health. It's called FTAC, which is, I
6 we had back in 2000. This is the end result; very 6 think it's Family Training and Advocacy Center.
7 similar, but we changed certain things. 7 It's through the-Department of
8 One of the things the Commissioner 8 Behavior Health. We asked them to develop a
9 wanted back then was he wanted a supervisor to 9 training curriculum for the supervisors, because we
10 arrive on the scene in all these types of cases 10 now expect them to come with tasers.
11 where somebody is off. ll 1 said, "Listen, I don't need you to
12 He authorized the supervisors only 12 replicate a lot of things we already have".
13 back then to have tasers. Of?cers didn't have 13 said, mental health awareness, we
14 tasers. The supervisors were not issued tasers; when 14 already have that; how to deescalate, how to 
15 didn't have enough money for that. A couple were 15 interact with these individuals, because there's two
16 assigned to the District. So if you went out on 16 people that need to deescalated on an incident. One
17 patrol, as a supervisor, you could sign out a taser, 17 is the person, and usually one is the responding
18 much like you sign out a police radio. You sign it 18 of?cer.
19 out, and the supervisor would put it on their belt. 19 With that being said, this program 
20 That was one training. But, as a- 20 was developed with John Mclnerney through the FTAC
21 result of that, we kind of said, "With all due 21 Program. And it was offered to the police
22 respect, Commissioner, you now have supervisors 22 supervisors. So the police supervisors were getting
23 responding to these scenes. But what more 23 additional training on the deescalation. It's very
24 additional skills do they have than they had the day 24 good training.
55 56
1 MR. THORPE: I make a request for a copy I "Listen, this is a great program. We want it.
2 of that. 2 Only pick voluntary of?cers."
3 MR. BRIGANDI: You have that. 3 At the time Timoney had a problem with the
4 MR. THORPE: The FT 4 volunteer of?cer concept. He said, "If this
5 MR. BRIGAN DI: Yes. 5 program is so good, then every of?cer should
6 MR. HORPE: Maybe I didn't recognize it. 6 get it. Explain to me why only volunteers."
7 THE WITNESS: That's the 30th Street 7 I was on that boat for a long time as
8 Station job. That's what happened internally 8 well. So we went back and forth for a lot of
9 within the Police Department for us. 9 years. That's why from the time the
10 At the same time the mental health 10 discussions were raised until actual
ll community was pushing forward - they were also 11 implementation took a long time. We went back
12 very upset with the police in general. 12 and forth.
13 You had the Sister Mary's, a whole bunch 13 We get to the point to as Timoney was
14 of individuals from the mental health advocacy l4 walking out the door, Sister Mary, with her
15 groups, setting themselves against the local 15 in?uence -- I don't if you know her.
16 police. 16 MR. THORPE: I know her.
17 We revamped and retooled things. That's 17 THE WITNESS: You don't want to be on her
18 what this came to be. We were ahead of the 18 wrong side. I mean I love the woman
19 curve, looking to do more training, more change 19 personally. But you don't want to be on her
20 of policy, tighten it up. 20 wrong side.
21 At the same time what was happening is 21 She said, "Listen, try this. Everyone
22 across the nation the whole CIT concept was 22 else who has done it". She says, "It's better
23 growing and growing and growing. 23 than sliced bread".
24 The advocates that came forward said, 24 Timoney as a courtesy to her said, "I'll

 

 

 

 

 

57

 

 

 

 

1 start a pilot program. We'll see how it 1 That was never a factor? 

2 operates; we'll see how it runs. And that's 2 A Not with Commissioner Timoney, nor

3 what I can promise." 3 Commissioner Johnson. The factor was, it was the
4 He promised her that. And basically, me 4 shooting at 30th Street Station was the impetus for
5 being in the Commissioner's Of?ce, I was 5 Timoney saying, "Let's revamp things; let's be ahead
6 blessed with the project. That's how I got 6 of the ball". 

7 involved. 7 There was nothing like saying, "Oh,

8 BY MR. THORPE: 8 my God, we're shooting a whole lot of the wrong type
9 I saw somewhere, and I think it might have 9 of people, and we need to do something".

10 been on the Report of Professional Accountability 10 That was never the reason for -

ll done by Eileen Ciesier Green. 11 I did notice in the summary that we marked
12 A Ellen Ciesler. 12 as Healy 11, that one of the reasons that you wanted
13 That during a period between 2001 and 13 to implement the CIT Training was to reduce the
14 2005, 20 percent of the deaths by police shootings l4 amount of violence that occurs with mental illness
15 were of mentally ill persons. 15 and engaging with severely mentally disabled

[6 Are you familiar with those 16 persons? I

17 statistics? 17 A Correct.

18 I A No. 18 Have you kept the statistical data as to

19 Is that one of the factors that was 19 whether this program has helped to decrease this
20 discussed in the implementation of the CIT Training, 20 amount of violence?
21 that there were too many deaths that were occurring 21 A We have tried. And it is incredibly hard
22 of mentally ill people as a result of police 22 to identify, because how we classify assaults on
23 shootings. 23 police, we can't electronically connect them to
24 A No. 24 whether or not the person was in crisis, and whether

59 60

or not what is a crisis. It gets very difficult. I A Not that I recall, to be honest with you,

2 Right now we're collaborating with 2 no.

3 the -- we, meaning the Police Department with the 3 Are you aware of the circumstances that

4 Police Executive Research Forum and the Council for 4 involved my client, Mr. Adams; have you reviewed
5 State Governments. We're looking across the nation. 5 anything?

6 It's very hard to identify what is a CIT call and 6 A Mr. Brigandi went over the facts quite

7 how it is handled. 7 some time ago with me, just briefly.

8 We're volunteering to be apart of how 8 Let me show you 

9 the better identify and track those incidents. It's 9 MR. THORPE: For purposes of this

10 easy if you looks on our coding system, you can ?nd 10 deposition, I'll mark it Healy 2.

11 302. Okay. It sounds like we found an answer. 11 (Whereupon, Healy 2,

12 Those only cover the ones where the 12 Investigation Review Record was
13 of?cer is called to transport. So, "Healy, I need 13 marked for identi?cation.)

14 you to transport a 302 to the hospital." 14

15 That's easy. But that has nothing to 15 BY MR. THORPE:

16 do with the volume of cases that we the deal with on 16 This is a statement daily basis. 17 of?cers who were on the scene at the time of the

18 Have you ever isolated that analysis to 18 shooting, and is a defendant in this matter. Just

19 just shooting of individuals and taking a assessment 19 take a few minutes and read through that, please.
20 of how many of those individuals that were shot and 20 MR. BRIGANDI: Off the record.
21 killed by the police were mentally ill or not? 21 (Discussion held Off the Record)
22 A 1 have not, no. 22 (Witness Reading Document)
23 Anybody on your team or anybody in your 23 THE WITNESS: Okay.
24 group? 24 BY MR. THORPE:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

61

62

 

 

 

 

1 You have had the chance to read the 1 issue came up - first and foremost, even with 
2 statement of Of?cer Clarence Irvine with regard to 2 it's of?cer safety first.

3 the incident that occurred on 7/21/2009. 3 The fact that he had a weapon

4 [f you were using this situation as a 4 complicated the issuecase study, what CIT issues would arise from the 5 type of scenario. 1 think he did the proper thing

6 scenario that you just read? 6 by removing the weapon, trying to safeguard it off
7 MR. BRIGANDI: I object to the form, and 7 to the side and still trying to communicate with

8 that you are asking him his opinion of the 8 him. The of?cers were trying to gather as much

9 underlying facts of the case. But the fact is 9 information 

10 that Captain Heaiy has only read one statement 10 I'm not trying to get your opinion on

11 from the of?cer involvedanything. I just want to know if you were you are
12 the scene. 12 a lawyer. When we have a fact pattern issue of

13 But to the extent that he has an opinion 13 identi?cation, looking at that statement, what

14 on the questions you are going to ask, 1'11 14 issues would you want to instruct your of?cers

15 allow him to answer. 15 about if they were analyzing a scenario like that?
'16 I'm just objecting to this line of 16 What would you want to talk about;
17 questioning, as it does not relate to the 17 communication rapport, escalation, deescalation;
18 purpose that he's here today to testify to. 18 what kind of things would give rise to 

19 BY MR. 19 A The whole thing is to attempt to engage
20 My question is from a training perspective 20 the individual. If that's not possible, they need

21 if that was a case scenario that you were studying 21. to be prepared for whatever action needs to be
22 in your classroom with your of?cers, what issues 22 taken. I
23 would arise from that factual scenario? 23 But in a situation like this, I would
24 A I think the issue when the medication 24 throw it up as a hypothetical; how best would you
63 64

1 try to engage the individual? 1 issues, it changes how they may respond to him.

2 If he talked about his medicine, that 2 So instead of him being a burglar

3 would be the ?rst thing. "Where is your medicine"? 3 that just left the house, they may have been able to
4 That wouid be something that we would 4 identify what he is, and what's going on. And then
5 play on, if it's feasibletheir behavior would have been accordingly.

6 individual where - if the problem is he does not 6 In terms of the quality of training under

7 have his medicine, we might be able to resolve this 7 [36, prior to the implementation of CIT, how would
8 very quickly. 8 you assess the quality of the 136 Training this thing would be 9 types of things that was necessary when encountering
10 that scenario would be used in how would you engage 10 severely mentally disabled persons or mentally ill
[1 him? If he's in that situation assuming there's 11 persons?

12 no pipe present or weapon present, how could they 12 A The objectives are the same. There's no
13 have engaged him? That's what we would go back and 13 real difference there between CIT - the objective
[4 forth with. And that's how [would have trained for 14 there was to isolate, control and contain.

15 that. 15 If they don't think they can do that,
16 We go back and forth in a class, and 16 then they have lost control situation, and things

17 of?cers give advice. would have done it this 17 spiral out of control.

18 way, or I would have done it that way." 18 The main objective is to preserve

19 I mean time is of no essence, unless 19 life. That's ours, as well as an individual in

20 the of?cer is in imminent danger. So that would 20 crisis.

21 have been -- I mean what do you have there at that 21 I noticed at some point when the Directive
22 point? If he wanted to run down the street, we 22 136 was changed, you did put in that provision that
23 don't know what We have yet. But if they can 23 of?cers when encountering somebody, who might be
24 identify the fact he's on medicine; he's having 24 severely mentally disabled, should be bring a

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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supervisor on the scene, or after the implementation 1 any less capable of handling it. In this situation

2 of CIT Training, bring a CIT specialist or someone 2 here they were still, from what I gathered from

3 trained with CIT to the scene. 3 reading that one statement, they were still in the

4 Given the scenario that you read in 4 process of gathering the facts to ?gure out what

5 the case study, that we'll use as a case study, 5 they had.

6 Irvine's statement, would that scenario when you 6 There are a lot of people out there

7 approach the individual, and he says he needs 7 that are having problems that take medicine, does
8_ medication, and he's having issues with breathing, 8 not mean it's a automatically major police incident.
9 would that he one of those scenarios that you would 9 Oftentimes our cops encounter people
10 expect a patrol of?cer, who does not have CIT 10 and ask, "Are you taking your medicine?

11 training to request a CIT specialist or supervisor 11 "No, not today.

12 to come to the scene? 12 "Well, how do you feel?

13 A Not with the behavior that he - no. I 13 feel okay." 

14 mean they didn't even know what they had there when 14 Well, that's not a crisis situation

15 they went there. They were still trying to ?gure 15 that would involve a CIT directly to handle.

16 Out the facts. It was an evolving situation very 16 I The average of?cer should be able to
17 quickly. They did not know what they had yet. 17 deal with that very competently with what he has in
18 I mean our of?cers arejust as 18 his background.

19 quali?ed I mean, just because an of?cer goes to 19 From what I gather here, everything
20 CIT, does not mean the average officer can't handle 20 was escalating. They were in the process of figuring
21 it. They're trained to deal with people. They have 21 what they got out. hat's where I see where the
22 all the other underlying basic training. CIT is 22 thing went, you know in the process of figuring
23 like mental health training on steroids. 23 that out is where they realized what they had.
24 It does not mean average of?cer is 24 By that time, it was too late. They

67 68

1 both seemed to he in a confrontation at that point. 1 piece of equipment. It needs to be used with

2 In dealing with CIT, do you deal with 2 caution. So he wanted all levels of deescalation to
3 issues of use of force and use of non?lethal force, 3 he used prior to having to use this weapon.

4 as opposed to lethal force? 4 What other weapons of --

5 A Yes. 5 A Well, you have your hand the force

6 Can you tell me a little bit with about 6 continuum goes from the officer's mere presence,

7 that training. 7 hand control, mechanical controls. Then you have
8 A According to Commissioner Ramsey, as you 8 your baton, 0C spray. Then you have the taser; then
9 know, the supervisors had tasers, not issued to 9 you have the firearm.

10 them. But they were previously assigned to the 10 That would be Directive 22, the use of

11 Districts. They have since been withdrawn; in 11 force continuum?

[2 process of it; they're already in the process of 12 A Yes, sir.

13 being withdrawn. Supervisors weren't bringing them 13 That is part of your packet that we

14 on the streets. So it was kind of pointless. 14 already marked as Healy 8, right, Directive 22?

15 In 2009 of July, what type of non-lethal 15 A Yes.

16 weapons would an of?cer have available to them? 16 You say there's that continuum?

17 A CIT Of?cers would have had most, maybe 17 A Yes, sir.

18 not at all, because we were short funding for 18 And the of?cer, whether he was trained
19 awhile. 19 under CIT or under 136, would be aware of that
20 Only the CIT Of?cers are issued 20 continuum, or trained under that continuum.
21 tasers. They call them electric control weapons. 21 A Directive 22 applies to every of?cer in
22 And only those of?cers for speci?c reasons. 22 use of force.
23 Commissioner Ramsey only wanted CIT Of?cers to have 23 By the way, what happens and is
24 this piece of equipment, because it is a dangerous 24 following the directives mandatory?

 

 

 

 

 

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A I'll say yes, but with a caveat. policy, whether or not his actions were reasonable
2 Okay. 2 under the circumstances.

3 A Yes, we put a policy in there, for 3 We are actually retooling the

4 example, if our policy says you should not use a 4 process. I have not finished writing it, retooling

5 ?rearm as a club. 5 the Firearms Use Review Board into an Use of Force
6 However, if the facts and 6 Review Board to recognize this fact.

7 circumstances are such that an of?cer is in a fight 7 We have done it 

8 for his life, and he actually uses the gun as a 8 Is that going to just be on deadly force

9 club, it is technically a violation of the policyforce?
10 But it is extenuating circumstancesforce. If the use of force is

11 recognize that fact, Commissioner Ramsey is actually 11 technically a violation of policy, for the most

12 looking to modify - I don't know if you are 12 part, if it's wrong, it's wrong. The of?cers will
13 familiar with our Firearm Use Review Board? 13 be disciplined or counseled or whatever the case may
14 Yes. 14 be --

15 A The concept of that Board is that jobs are 15 That's my next question. If there is a

16 not ?nalized from Internal Affairs. They actually 16 violation of the directives, what are the

17 get presented to the Board for their final - 17 consequences?

18 recommendation, whether to sustain, not sustain, 18 A Let me finish my answer. First, if the

19 exonerate. 19 policy is there, yes.[f you violate the policy,
20 in extreme cases where use of force 20 yes, you are disciplined, or it could mean positive
21 is used that may technically violate a policy, the 21 or negative discipline. I can't say you are going to
22 Commissioner would like that body of commanders to 22 get suspended. But in those extreme cases, it's
23 review those extreme cases to determine whether or 23 just not fair to say - we have a policy that says
24 not, even though the of?cer technically violated a 24 you should not shoot at a moving car.

71 72

1 Well, if the car is running you over, 1 A Yes. 
2 there's an exceptional thing there. But, for the 2 You were talking about the use of force

3 most part, Internal Affairs is very good at seeing 3 continuum. And you said it escalates. Is that part
4 whether or not it's an extreme case. And in those 4 of what's taught in CIT, how to go from one stage to
5 cases, as it stands now there's no out for the 5 the other or the factors that you consider in going
6 of?cer. Not a out, but there's no - "All right, 6 through these stages?

7 Of?cer. You had no choice. You were getting 7 A I touch on it. But the most important

8 killed by three people. And you hit him, so you 8 thing about our use of force continuum, which 1

9 violated policy". 9 think is better than anyone else's, our use of force
10 That's just not fair. That?s why 10 continuum, you'll see most of them have arrows going
11 we're retooling it to recognize the reality of 11 up, as everything escalating up, with no arrows

12 policing, and actually consistent with the courts as 12 escalating down.

13 well, what the reasonable officer needs to use, yes. 13 Ours does, because you can escalate
14 But day-to-day basis, don't use your 14 up to the use of taser, and after that if you

15 gun as a club. Day-to-day basis also, make sure 15 comply, you need to come back down.

16 your car has oil in it too. 16 Ours recognizes that. Things

17 You have certain policies and 17 escalate, and they can be deesealated as quickly as
18 procedures for standard operating day. But in 18 that. Just because you are at one level, deadly

l9 extreme cases I can honestly say where an officer 19 force, case in point, you come at me with a pipe,
20 may technically violated a policy, but he will not 20 "Drop the gun; drop the gun", I'm prepared to use
21 be disciplined for it because of the under extreme 21 deadly force.
22 circumstances reason. 22 Let's say I shoot. You finally drop
23 Couldn't discipline be something as simple 23 the pipe. At that point in time I can't continue at
24 as retraining? 24 that level of force.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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73

I need to come down, because the
threat level has come down. You will see around the
country a lot of use of force continuums, models.
They only go up. Nobody ever seems to come back
down. We recognize that.

And that's what I tell the officers,
Isay, "Just because you have the right at this
point to use force, does not mean it continues to
in?nity."

You say you touch on it, and you train it.
What are the things you touch on and train when you
are teaching your course about 

A For the CIT, for the most part Directive
22 is trained to them on the sixth day of training.
It's the taser training. It's ?ve days classroom
for the CIT. After that, they are done CIT.

At that point they are quali?ed to
go the following Monday with the taser training.

The range folks are the ones that
actually gives them training on the operational use
of the equipment. They go through the whole use of
force continuum, and everything along those lines.

From my perspective for the CIT
Of?cers, my CIT Officers are not just to deescaiate

 

 




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74

civilians.

They are also used to deescalate
police of?cers. So when they come on the scene, a
lot of times I make it very clear -- the range
people will be able to tell you more about what they
are taught for deescaiation when it comes to Tasers.
They cover the whole police force continuum. That's
done by the range on the sixth day of training.

My component of Directive 22, what I
teach them is actually the Policy Statement. If you
are on scene, and someone is out of control, meaning
a police of?cer, that it is also their
responsibility to step in and do something.

You have to understand that sometimes
cops, who are human beings, may temporarily be in
crisis.

If someone just shoots at you, or
someone just tried to hit you with a car, and you
?nally get them, officers can do human things.
Sometimes you need to step in and intervene.

I make that clear to CIT Of?cers, I
expect them to. i expect them to deescalate of?cers
when need be. 7

So the use of force, excessive force,

 

 

 

 

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75

is not tolerated. It's ourjob to police ourselves

when we're on the streets. The CIT Officers, I

kinda let them know, they have a heightened burden.
Not a burden; I?m not going to pay you more money
for it. But I expect you to recognize that if a cop

is have a problem and getting out of control, not

just to stand there and look at it.

I mean recognize that that police
of?cer is in a temporary crisis. You need to
assist him. As much as you need to save other
people on the street, you need to save the cop, as
well.

That's part of CIT, to protect the
community and ourselves. That's my biggest part of
what I do about 22, because I know 22 is talked
about at length on a sixth day. That's my important
thing from a CIT perspective, to let the of?cers
know, be aware; these aren't bad cops. They are
people that are usually scared to death, and they're
just taking a natural reaction.

You know what? Your actions can save
your career, and save someone who is innocent until
proven guilty, from getting excessivoiy hurt.

It's done. It's under control. So

 

 






76

that's my biggest part from the CIT perspective of
use of force.

What about the 136 perspective, for
officers who do not have the benefit of steroid
training? What's your understanding of what they
are taught?

A I mean 136 was -- a lot of the input was
from the mental health community. A lot of it is
the of?cer being aware, most oftentimes people in
crisis are not looking to hurt you.

We're trained people who come at
police are usually ready to hurt us. Most bad
people run away from us. We're very clear in the
Directive, be aware time is of no essence. Take
your time. Slow things down. And be aware
oftentimes, people are just trying to get away.

If you step aside, knowing what you
have. You don't have a criminal. You have a person
in crisis. It's not the end of the world if he runs
away. We'll catch him.

Even if we lose him, we didn't get
hurt; he didn't get hurt. He will show up again.

We'll do what needs to be done then.

I had an incident; it was a homeless

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 person. I'm just wondering how you have your 1 this program, I didn't understand myself. People

2 of?cers in CIT deal with this, who appeared to be 2 say they are not taking their medicine. The

3 very aggressive. He would run up to you almost to 3 question is why. It's simple. If you have high

4 the point of your personal space barrier, seemed 4 blood pressure, you needmedicine, high cholesterol,
5 threatening, but then stop, and just calm down. 5 take medicine. "Why won't you just take your

6 Of course, the average of?cer in his 6 medicine?" I

7 training, you see somebody coming at you 7 Well, it's very clear that some of

8 aggressively iike that, doesn't take into 8 the side effects that these medicines

9 consideration that he has a space limit, and he 9 kicks off are much worse than the actual of
10 stops there. 10 their disease or their problem. So what they try to
11 How do you deal with situations like 11 ?nd themselves doing is finding alternate

12 that the context of 12 medications. - -

13 - A The homeless context is complicated. It 13 Rather than going back to the doctor,
14 is something that CIT is designed for; the ability 14 and saying, "This doeSn't work", a lot of them don't
15 to engage that individual. 15 realize that it's a trial and error.

16 If you are violating the lawdifferent medicine, it

17 you're threatening somebody and that kind of stuff, 17 does not work, you try something different.

18 when we need to take police action, we take police 18 But they don't know that. I guess

19 action. 19 they are just not educated enough. So what they do
20 For the most part, if you can 20 is they go off their medicine; but they try to self
21 communicate with these individuals, and get through 21 medicate with either drugs or illegal drugs. And
22 to them, it is amazing what can happen. 22 what it does is it's double whammy. Not only do
23 A lot of these individuals have 23 they have mental problem. Now, they have either
24 serious problems. Unbeknownst to me, but before 24 alcohol or dependency problemsthe homeless people not 1 coordinates, whether it's a homeless issue, ?nd a

2 ali of them are suffering from multiple problems 2 home, different people from different organizations.
3 like that. 3 Her goal is to say, "Okay. Of?cer

4 The important thing about CIT is not 4 Healy had a problem with Mr. Smith at 12th and Arch.
5 just us. CIT is a bridge between two worlds. It's 5 All right. Is there a mobile team available?"

6 the police world and the whole mental health world. 6 There's a whole lot of other

7 We actually have an individual who is 7 resources. My of?cers don't need to know

8 the crisis coordinator for the Department of 8 Specifically what they are. All they got to do as a

9 Behavioral Health. And what it is when the of?cer 9 CIT Of?cer is to make one phone call.

10 is on the scene on a situation like that, the 10 I want my CIT cop there to try to

11 homeless individual, who is chronic, I expect 11 deescalate that incident. If that just happens

12 of?cer to engage the individual, aggressively 12 every day over and over again, there?s a cycle. And
13 engage him, talk to him, get as much information, 13 eventually more times an officer comes in contact
14 try to communicate to him. But I also at the end of 14 with people in crisis, the higher the likelihood

15 the encounter, expect that officer to pick up the 15 something bad is going to happen for everybody.

16 phone and call my coordinator. Because my 16 So if we can get other people

17 coordinator, her function is to connect the people 17 involved in the process, hepefuily, the goal here

13 that are in crisis with the services that they may 18 is, we can't solve every problem every day. But if
19 need. 19 we can avoid multiple encounters with the police,
20 She's an expert; she works out of 20 that's a win, win.
21 Behavioral Health, and she works with the Police 21 That can't happen without a
22 Department. 22 connection to other services. That's what CIT is.
23 Her role is to ?nd whatever services 23 CIT is not just the police perspective. Police have
24 there may be that this individual needsthe street. But when they pick up that

 

 

 

 

 







81

phone, they activate a whole world of other services
that are available; be it Veterans bene?ts,
medication, whatever it would be. Herjob is to
sort that out, and get the right people involved, if
we can.

The best thing about this program is
a lot of the people, they can't give us the
information, because of HIPAA. But a lot of the
people that we come across are in the mental health
system, for lack of a better word.

So once that information is relayed,
there's a lot that Behavior Health can do. They
know the person's background. That helps, because
my coordinator will then reach back to the police
of?cer, and say, "Listen. Mr. Smith has been seen.
This is his problem".

What that does is gives the of?cer
more information. So the next time I walk up and
see this homeless guy, "Listen, Mr. Green, I
understand you have this, that and the other."

All of a sudden, Mr. Green says, "How
do you know about that?"

"Listen, Greenie, you think I don't
care. I called up. I found out what's going on


??gwaqamauN?


LMNHOWOOQGNUI-BU

82

with you. This guy is calling on you. You have a
chronic problem here. I don't want to mess with you.
If you need help, I'll get you the help you need.

But you know what? I need to help me."

That?s how the whole transaction
goes, where instead of being a hostile encounter, it
can turn into a positive one. 

Some of the business community may
not be happy, because we're not going to cart off
people just because they're homeless, because they
are sitting on their property.

Let's go back to the non?CIT trained
officers. Do they have the ability to make a call
and get a rapid response from CIT Mobilization?

A It's not CIT mobilization. Yes, the way
the CIT Model has been made, there's suf?cient
number of of?cers on all three tours of duty;
that's day work, 4:00 to 12:00 and on last out.

So as within their own squad, there
is - and that's the way it's designed to be, that
the of?cers will know, have Healy's Of?cer
Bergondi's CIT. If I need them, I'm going to call.
He's in 610 Car. Get 6l0 Car. See if he can lend a
hand!?

 

 

 

 

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83

That's the notion, because it is hard
for us to identify over police radio what is
something that would be CIT related.

Now, if we can ?nd that out in
advance, police radio does have instructions to send
CIT Police Of?cers. But that's an art, not a
science.

[fa person is screaming on the
radio, it's hard for us to say whether it's a crisis
related thing or a theft in progress.

Let's take it outside of CIT, and just
your understanding of 136 Training. Is there
anything that the of?cers are taught or should know
regarding a citizen and police encounters and
whether it is criminal, versus noncriminal.

A Yes. Our bar, I believe, is pretty high
in Philadelphia. I believe the average police
of?cer has more than suf?cient background to deal
with anyone, because they have the Academy training;
they have the MPO training several years ago, and
they also have this level of training. A lot of
them have this 

When you say this, you are talking about
FTAC.

 


chmqamauwm




84

A Yes, TAC. Our bar, I believe,
personally - that's, of course, anecdotaliy, but
the effort that we have put in with this training is
more than the average police department.

I think our average police of?cer is
very well quali?ed to handle these situations.
They know Directive 136. They know to be aware of
the signs, being able to shift gears, know what you
have.

CIT is like a masters course. It
does not mean you are any less quaii?ed when you
graduate the regular class. But when you volunteer
for the CIT class, you are just at another level
above and beyond what is expected.

On citizens encounters when you are
dealing with a noncriminal situation, and it is
dealing with somebody with mental health, and that's
part of the assessment, how are of?cers generally
taught to approach a noncriminal mentally ill
situation, as opposed to one where you know that the
mentally ill person may have also committed a crime?

A The issue there is when you say mental
health. There's more mental health out there than
you can ever imagine. You are talking about people

 

 

 

 

 

 

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in severe crisis? 1 training, how should they go about, from their

2 Severe crisis, yes. 2 training -- first of all, do they have the training,

3 A Severe crisis, the goal is preservation of 3 and are they taught how to implement these skills?
4 life and avoidance of injuries. And so when you 4 And if so, in a scenario with a severely mentally

5 attempt to deescalate, isolate, contain, that's the 5 disabled person, how would you expect them to

6 basic tenets that permeates almost all policies that 6 implement that training? -

7 I've ever set on the issue across the country; 7 A I can't tell you 'what they train. I can

8 isolate, contain and try to 8 tell you what I was trained. 

9 That is noncriminal or criminal? 9 My understanding was slow everything
10 A Once you recognize the person is in 10 down, isolate, control, basically slowing everything
11 crisis, no matter what they did or how they got ll down. .

12 there, is somewhat irrelevant. 12 Ultimately, if things get bad, then

13 MR. THORPE: If you need to take a break, 13 it becomes a hostage situation, then professional

14 and get some water or something? 14 negotiators are brought in. But for the most part,
15 THE WITNESS: I'm good. 15 it's just the awareness and slowing everything down.
16 BY MR. THORPE: 16 The deescalation portion, I

17 For the purposes of record, I have not 17 honestly - deescalation, it is talked about. But I

18 talked about Directive 10 yet. I noticed in the 18 don?t think it is talked about as in depth as what

[9 Crisis Intervention Team Manual there's 2 Module 16, 19 we do in CIT. I think that's the beauty of CIT.
20 Deescalation and Active Listening Techniques? 20 But I don't think the average officer is totally
21 A Yes. . 21 void of deescalation techniques. 7
22 Will you talk to me a little bit about how 22 We have a strategy - not my
23 of?cers under 136 should implement these same 23 strategy. It was adopted through the CIT Model.
24 tactics? If they don't have the bene?t of this 24 And it's a very good model. How we engage the

87 88

1 individual, that portion of the training is (Healy 6 Marked for Identification)

2 incorporated in a lot of different sections of basic 2 BY MR. THORPE:

3 training. 3 You can identify for the record what that
4 Even if a person got their car 4 is.

5 stolen, I need to engage them to ?gure out their 5 A I actually teach this portion of the class

6 car was stolen. 6 now.

7 So I think the basic training the 7 You do now?

8 average of?cer has is basic; basic training on how 8 A Carlin no longer teaches it. I step in.

9 to interact with people, interpersonal communication 9 This is what I do, what I mentioned earlier on the
10 skills. 10 Thursday. This is the class directly before we

In the normal situation or 11 begin the role plays.

12 noncriminai, as you mentioned, it would be how to 12 Yes, and I use his previous

13 communicate with this individual. And oftentimes 13 presenters as slides.

14 that's the hardest part. It is mentioned and taught 14 Going back to the case study using the

15 in the Academy. 15 Irvine statement as a study. Can you garner based
16 I do believe it was mentioned in the 16 on at least Irvine's statement, whether they used

17 advanced training required by the Municipal Police 17 any of the techniques of deescalation and isolation
[8 Of?cers Training Commission several years ago. 18 and control that you referred to would be available
19 I know it is mentioned in this 19 to them in the context of their interaction with
20 training. My training is Master's or Doctorate 20 Mr. Adams?
21 level. But it does not mean that the ones 21 MR. BRIGANDI: Objection to the form.
22 underneath are any less quali?ed to handle it. 22 And, again, his sole basis is from reading the
23 MR. THORPE: For the purposes of the 23 statement.
24 record, we'll mark this as Healy 6- 24 MR. THORPE: One statement. I wish I had

 

 

 

 

 

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the other one. That would be the composites I yet. But I believe either I don't know what I've

2 for the whole day. But since I don' just if 2 got. I think I might personally, I would have

3 you could. 3 handcuffed him immediately, because I don't know
4 THE WITNESS: My reading of the facts 4 what I have yet.

5 would indicate that they did not know what they 5 I may have uncuffed him very quickly
6 had yet. They were still in the process of 6 as well. They come off just as easily as they go on.

7 trying the figure out what they bad. They were 7 But the fact he had a weapon in his hand right off
8 still in of?cer safety mode, police mode. 8 the bat, escalated that incident to a -- to a higher

9 I don?t think they had the opportunity to 9 on the continuum. .

10 recognize what they had in front of them, to 10 After the weapon was removed, at that

11 shift gears, even if they had CIT training. I 11 point, based on what training techniques, either for
12 don't know if they did. I don't think they 12 safety or use of force, whatever, would have kicked
13 did. 7 13 in on a case scenario if you are teaching your

14 BY MR- THORPE: 14 students?

15 Even in of?cer's safe mode, what should a 15 Now, I've gone in as Irvine said,

16 trained of?cer do based with training to protect 16 removed the pipe, and I threw it 6 feet away, and
17 himself and the individual he's encountering? What 17 he's sitting on the steps. He's calm. He says he

18 training would you think would kick in at that 18 needs medication".

19 point? . 19 As a trained of?cer under 136, who
20 A At this point here from looking at the 20 does not have the advantage of the CIT training,
21 facts, I'm just looking at those speci?c facts. 21 should do what in terms of consistent with his
22 You're walking up; the male has a pipe in his hand. 22 training? 
23 I don't know what I have. I have reasonable 23 A Well, at this point in time I don't
24 suspicion of some criminal activity. I'm not sure 24 believe you know what you have. don't think you

91 92

1 can clearly say you have a severely mentally 1 I think once they disarmed him, I

2 disabled person. 2 think the pieces were falling into place as to what

3 You have a person who had a weapon in 3 they bad. But before they were able to actually

4 his hands. And they removed the weapon, and I 4 switch gears, everything fell apart very quickly.

5 believe the other of?cer goes up the steps to read 5 If you were using that as a case study,

6 what's on the door. I think they are starting to 6 and you were identifying what training they relied
7 piece together what they have. 7 on, what would you be pointing to saying, In this
8 At the time they piecing together 8 situation they relied on this training, this

9 that this guy may not be all together is at the same 9 training and this training"?

10 time when all hell broke loose. 10 A To be honest, that's all of our training.

11 Now, would the fact that when you arrived 11 From of?cer safety from the get go, their job is to
12 at the scene, the individual was masturbating, at 12 investigate what's going on, of?cer safety, keep

13 least from your perspective when you arrived, 13 themselves safe. This is everything we learned from
14 suggest that this guy may have a problem? 14 the Academy from Day One. They rolled up on the
15 A He could also be a pervert looking at 15 scene, did not know what they had. Their job is a
16 little kids walking by with a pipe looking to hurt 16 preliminary investigator.

17 one of them. 17 They disarmed the individual, because
18 At that point you're asking my 18 he was a threat. And they were in this course of

19 opinion. I don't know at this point. It is not 19 trying to ?gure out what was going on, which is

20 normal for somebody sitting there with a pipe 20 what we do. We always ?nd out the who, what, when
21 masturbating. But that does not mean that he is 21 where, why and how.

22 severely mentally disabled at that point. Instantly 22 I think they were in the process of
23 I can't make that call. They're cop mode still, 23 that. First step is of?cer safety. They got that.
24 of?cer mode. 24 Next thing you know they were trying

 

 

 

 

 

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1 to ?guring out what was going on. And before they 1 case study?

2 could ?gure out what was going on, things spiraled 2 A Taking those facts alone, that would be my
3 out of control. 3 Opinion. 

4 And at that point in time they needed 4 Now, of course, if the radio call had 7

5 to spring into of?cer safety mode, because they 5 additional information, and the second of?cer had
6 were basically under attack from what I read. 6 different information, that would have the impact on
7 It was the gamut of everything we 7 your evaluations here?

8 trained about; how to investigate, observe -- 8 A I would have to look at the totality of

9 This was training that they would have had 9 everything.

10 even if they had not been under your program? 10 THE WITNESS: Can I go to the bathroom?
11 A Yes, absolutely. 11 MR. THORPE: Yes, right across the hall.
12 I don't believe personally that this 12 -

13 is even a severely mentally disabled issue at this 13 (A brief recess was taken.)

14 point yet. 14 - 

15 They are still investigating a 15 (Healy 7 Previously Marked for
16 potential crime or investigating a potential [6 Identification.)

17 incident. They did not get any additional I7 BY MR. THORPE: .

18 information going to the job, that this is a 18 Can you identify for the record, Healy 7?
19 possible 302. They had no idea; they are walking in 19 A Yes, this is the power point presentations
20 blind as to what they had. 20 regarding the legal liability claims that'could
21 Grant it; we can ?gure out what we 2] emanate from a 302 commitment, and it also covers
22 got pretty quickly. And I think that's what they 22 the 302 commitment process? I
23 were in the process of doing. 23 Do of?cers who are not CIT trained have
24 That's using the statement of Irvine as 24 the authority and ability to start the 302 process?

95 96

A Yes. That's well explained in the 1 have you ever seen or been taught the aspects of

2 Academy, and it is also in Directive 136. 2 that document, either as a recruit or used it in

3 MR. THORPE: This will be Healy 9. 3 conjunction with any of your training?

4 (Whereupon, Healy 9, Document 4 A Personally I must have undergone it as a

5 was marked for identification.) 5 recruit. I've skimmed through it years past. But

6 6 this is not my training or the Department?s

7 BY MR. THORPE: 7 training. This is from the Municipal Police

8 This is Healy 9. This is a document that 8 Officers Training Commission. So I'm not that

9 was given to me by your attorney. 9 familiar with it.

10 I think it may be part of the FTAC 10 Taking a look at it, is it consistent with

11 Training. Can you identify that document, or are 11 the training techniques that you utilize under your
12 you familiar with that document at all? 12 CIT Program? And you can take a minute; take all
13 A I'm not sure where this came from. 13 the time you need to take a look at it.

14 MR. BRIGANDI: I think I can tell you [4 A The basic tenets are what CIT is all

15 where it came from, ifI can take a look at the 15 about. -

16 front page. 16 MR. THORPE: add this to Healy 9, the
17 For the record, that was part of the 17 documents. And Healy 10 is an outline of the
[8 curriculum, the basic recruit curriculum, that 18 Table of Contents of the CIT Training Program.
19 I produced to Mr. Thorps. 19 (Whereupon, Healy 10, Table of
20 It was speci?cally under Section 18, 20 Contents was marked for

21 "Handling Arrested Persons'. 21 identification.)

22 It appears that's a section under that. 22

23 BY MR. THORPE: 23 BY MR. THORPE:

24 Are you familiar with that document, or 24 I didn't want to introduce the whole

 

 

 

 

 

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98

 

 

 

 

1 manual. Is that an index of the subject matte 1 identify that information would be the Internal

2 that are covered from 2 Affairs Shooting Review Team. There's a captain
3 A Yes. 3 that oversees it. Off the top of my head, I can't

4 I'm just about done. 4 think ofwho it is.

5 Off the record. 5 There's a captain that oversees the

6 (Whereupon, an Off-the?record 6 Internal Affairs Police Shooting Team. They monitor
7 Discussion was Held.) 7 the statistics for all police shootings.

8 BY MR. THORPE: 8 I don't know, classifying someone has
9 Earlier, Captain, I'd asked you questions 9 a' problem, whether or not it's a crisis or whether
10 about statistical data as it related to CIT training 10 or not they're in a criminal mode,- I'm not sure if
11 and the reduction of police violence. 11 those statistics would be concrete. But if anybody
12 And I believe I asked you if under 12 has statistics on police shootings, it would be that
13 CIT you kept statistical information of the impact 13 unit.

14 that CIT is having speci?cally on the use of deadly 14 I know earlier we talked about

15 force. 15 communications techniques. I'm not sure ifwe

16 And I believe your answer to that was 16 talked about it in the context of communication

17 no, you are not aware of any? 17 techniques how important trust building and rapport
18 A No, I'm not aware. 18 is, speci?cally.

19 Do you know of anyone in the Department 19 I know in CIT you guys deal with
20 who would be aware of what the numbers were prior to 20 trust building and rapport as being a very
21 CIT and subsequent to CIT and where I would get that 21 signi?cant component.
22 information? 7 22 Under 136 when you learned it, or
23 A I don't know if it's directly related to 23 from your understanding of what's taught to recruits
24 CIT. But the best people that would be able to 24 and line officers, who do not have your training, is

99 100

1 there anything written in policy or procedure or 1 expandable police baton. And then you have the

2 training that you are aware that deals speci?cally 2 pepper spray. 

3 with trust building and rapport? 3 Okay. Somewhere in the materials [saw a
4 A Not so much in Directive 136, but I 4 reference, and I'm not sure ifit was the CIT

5 believe from what I just saw in the basic training, 5 training or 136 training. And, Captain, I'm going
6 it was in there; it was involved. 6 to ask you if you can clarify You said the basic training is the 7 a statement that said, "Aggressive action will not

8 document we just marked under Healy 9, "Behavioral 8 be taken unless there's a threat to life in terms of

9 Management and Crisis Intervention"? 9 deescalation techniques".

10 A I believe it was mentioned in there. 10 Is that a common understanding for
11 We did talk about safety. 11 line of?cers under 136, that aggressive actions

12 By the way, the of?cers who are on 12 should not be taken, unless there's a threat to

13 the street, I believe you said they do not have 13 their safety or the safety of others?

14 tasers available to them? 14 A I clearly see that in CIT. But I'm

15 A The average police of?cer? 15 certain it's in here too.

16 The average police of?cer. 16 It's clearly in 

17 A No. 17 A It's in the general procedures. It says,

18 What nonlethal devices do they have 18 "General Procedures, Directive 136, Section 3,

19 available to them when they are on the street, to 19 Section A.
20 your knowledge? 20 It is important for the first

21 A Physical control holds ?rst, mechanical 2! responding officers to use caution, evaluate the
22 restraints, the handcuffs; they have the baton -- 22 situation, attempt to deescalate the situation
23 What you usually call pepper spray? 23 through communication, wait for a backup and a
24 A No, the baton, the stick or A.S.P., the 24 arrival of patrol supervisor before taking action,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

101 102
barring a threat to life." I not that involved in that. Usually it is done
2 In conjunction with Directive 136 - 2 through police radio. lfan individual person wants
3 A Let me follow up. It is also additionally 3 to contact radio regarding their family, we make it
4 touched on in the policy section of 136, Section 1, 4 very clear to our CIT of?cers that if they come to
5 Subpart B, "Time is of no importance when handling 5 a place, and somebody wants to do that, or they
6 the severely mentally disabled person. Aggressive 6 think they should do that for other of?cers
7 action will not be taken by police personnel, unless 7 responding, yes, there is. It is called a premise
8 there's immediate threat to life or physical danger 8 history. It does not last forever.
9 to the severely mentally disabled person, the police 9 We'll put in there like an of?cer
10 or other civilians present". 10 has been assaulted previously. But they expire after
11 Since CIT has been initiated, is there a 11 so long, because people move so much.
12 mechanism that red ?ags, homes or places where 12 Is that premise history data kept without
13 strike that. 13 somebody calling in, just from a perspective of
14 Is there a mechanism that red flags [4 previous encounters at a residence?
15 prior 302 contact or prior mentally ill contact? 15 A If the police radio room supervisor deemed
16 A You mean through police radio so of?cers 16 that it would be important, yes, they could. They
17 are aware? 17 would he the one that would put it in there. Like
18 Right. 18 if there was an assist of?cer there, if we get
19 A There is a mechanism; it can be done. We 19 information of an individual with an autistic child,
20 have family members like a mother has Alzheimer's 20 and a parent wants to put it in, we will put it in
21 or something like that. A document gets sent to the 21 there. But it's usually through police radio.
22 police radio. You can send it, and we will actually 22 That?s when there's an initiative by your
23 include it into the premise history of the location. 23 of?cers or the family to put it in. What if it's
24 The average police of?cer usually is 24 just a history at the house.

103 104
For example, I had a situation, a A That's from police radio. That's
2 woman mentally ill, the police had visited that 2 automatically drops down; the addresses are
3 house on probably eight to ten occasions. Is that 3 maintained what the ultimate job came out to be. It
4 something that would be documented by radio, the 4 could have been a disturbance initially. But then
rior histo of the house, the fact that 1 go to 5 let's say it turned into an arrest. It was a
6 H, and, boom, 1 know automatically that 6 disturbance, because you were breaking into my
7 this is a history of mental illness or 7 house.
8 A Yes. I'll know the history. 1 may not 8 It could be classi?ed as a
9 know exactly what the outcome was. It may be a 9 disturbance, but ultimately coded as a burglary.
10 disturbance. It could be for a lot of reasons. 10 That's done electronically by record.
11 But, yeah, if the police were dispatched to a 11 Nobody is inputting anything speci?cally into that.
l2 certain location, 1 could tell you how many times l2 Your program has now evolved to the point
13 they were there over the course of the years. 13 where you can actually identify mental illness
14 Would you be able to tell me whether it 14 history at a location?
15 was mentally health related or mental illness crisis 15 A Yes, it could be. It gets very weird.
16 related? 16 Some of the people that wanted this program very
17 A Probably would not be, unless somebody l7 much are also very apprehensive about my of?cers
18 took the assertive action of putting it in as such. 18 putting in the police system that they have mental
19 It would automatically be dropped 19 health problems, because of the stigma that's
20 right now if I called the police, and there had been 20 associated with it.
21 a disturbance here. 1 hope we don't have one? 21 They want us to help them. But they
22 No. Hope you could deescalation it? 22 are like, "Well, we really don't want it maintained
23 A Are you hungry? 23 everywhere."
24 Not right now? 24 1 said you can't have it both ways.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

105

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I said we're worried about keeping people alive and ignore verbal abuse, avoid excitement; do not
2 safe. 2 deceive, be honest, use appropriate retraining force
3 So very begrudgingly a lot of people 3 only when necessary, and keep the individual calm."
4 that are strong advocates of the CIT, as well as the 4 Now, that is consistent with CIT
5 mental health community, they are very hinky about 5 training and approach; is that correct?
6 putting that information. So they say, "Just put 6 A Also consistent with the tenets of 136.
7 may need assistance". 7 MR. THORPE: That's all I have.
8 A lot of times they will ask us to 8 (Whereupon, an off-thereto"!
9 put, not 302 - that's a cop term that we use. 302 9 Discussion was held.)
10 is a very small, minute population. 10
11 We're talking about people who are 11 (Hearing Concluded)
12 crisis. They don't want to say, 12
13 has schizophrenia". 13
14 We are going against exactly what 14
15 they trying to prevent, stigmatization. We'll put IS
16 it in there when we believe it is in the best 16
17 interest of the responding of?cers, if it can help I7
18 them shift gears faster, and that's the goalthere, we'll put it in there. 19
20 I want to make sure this is consistent 20
21 with 136 training. I had certain references 21
22 again, I'm not sure which document I got it from. 22
23 But it said "Officers should when dealing with a 23
24 crisis of severely mentally disabled person should 24
107

2 I hereby certify that I am a Court Reporter
3 and Notary Public. I FURTHER CERTIFY that the
4 witness was sworn to testify to the truth. I
5 FURTHER CERTIFY the foregoing is, to the best of my
6 ability, a true and accurate transcript of the
7 testimony taken stenographicaliy by me at the time,
8 place and date hereinbefore set forth. I FURTHER
9 CERTIFY that I am neither a relative, employee,
10 attorney, nor counsel to any of the parties to the
11 action, and that I am neither a relative nor
12 employee of such attorney or counsel and that I am
13 not financially interested in the action.
14
15 (The foregoing certification of this
16 transcript does not apply to any production of the
17 same by any means, unless under the direction,
18 control and/or supervision of the certifying
l9 reporter.)
20
21 DOROTHY L. JOHNSON, R.P.R.
22 Court Reporter
23


is