ELECTRONICALLY FILED Faulkner County Circuit Court Rhonda Wharton, Circuit Clerk 2016-Jun-29 11:38:02 23CV-14-862 C20D04 : 20 Pages 10 THE Thank you very ll much. 12 Would the court reporter please 13 swear in the witness. 14 PROCEEDINGS 15 THEREUPON, 16 MICHAEL MORTON, 1? THE WITNESS HEREINBEFORE NAMED, 18 having been duly cautioned and sworn by me to 19 testifyto the truth, the whole truth, and nothing 20 but the truth, testi?ed on their oath as follows, 21 to-wit: 22 EXAMINATION 23 BY MR. BUCHANAN: 24 Good morning. Would you tell us your name, 25 please? 0009 1 A Michael Morton. 2 And what do you do for a living, Mr. Morton? 3 A I'm in the long-ten-n care business. 4 Okay. We met once before. Do you recall that? 5 A Yes. 6 Okay. And do you recall that was when Itook 7 your deposition in the Manha Bull versus Greenan 3 Nursing Rehab Center case that was pending in 9 Faulkner County? Do you recall that? 10 A Yes. 11 Have you looked at any documents in preparation 12 for your deposition? 13 A This deposition? 14 Yes. 15 A No. 16 So you haven't looked at any statements you i? might have given or any plea agreement or any -- any 18 kind of documents at all? 19 A I?ve looked at -- I read that Judge Maggie's 20 plea agreement. 21 Okay, Otherthan Judge Maggio's plea 22 agreement, did you look at anything else in terms of 23 what of what you might have read through in 24 preparation for this deposition? 25 A No. I read some of the discovery items,l 0010 1 think they call them, that you sent up. But my 2 lawyers went through all of that. 3 Sure. Discovery responses where we asked you 4 some questions on paper? 5 A Yes. a All right. it A Yes. 8 Any anything else that you recall that 9 you've looked at before your deposition here today 10 about this case? 11 A No. 2:53:32 14 Now, you -- you can-ya cell phone, or you did? 15 A I do. 16 Okay. And the cell phone that you had in May 1? and June and July of 2013, where is it? 18 A I think I?ve upgraded to a different phone, but 19 I --I don?t know what I did with the old phone, 20 but, 1 mean, I've just transferred all the 21 information. 22 Sure. 23 Have you -- have you supplied any any 24 records, any of your cell phone records for that 25 time period? And -- and we'lljust say January 1, 0013 1 2013, to August 31, 2013. Have you supplied those 2 records to anybody? 3 A No. 4 Okay. Do you -- who was your carrier during 5 that time period? 6 A All right. What was your cell phone number at 8 that time period? 9 A The same as it is now. 10 Okay. Which is what? 11 A 12 Is there a reason that -- that -- that we don't 13 have the cell phone records here with us today that 14 you know of, Mr. Morton? 15 A My attorneys had all of the information. 1 16 depended upon them to gather whatever they thought they needed to gather. 13 You could get these records, couldn?t yousomebody 20 A You know, I don't know if you can or not, But 21 I know 1 took it that the FBI had everything they 22 wanted. 23 Okay. Would you have a problem if we presented 24 you with an authorization asking you to allow us to 25 get those cell phone records for that time period? 4 A I?d have a problem with you asking me anythingattorney. 3 Okay. All right. 4 MR. EVERETT: Tommy, I will 5 cooperate with you. I believe that the 6 only way you can get them is by subpoena MR. BUCHANAN: Uh-huh. 8 MR. EVERETT: That's the only way 9 you can get them. 10 MR. BUCHANAN: [lb-huh. 1 MR. EVERETT: And the reason we 12 don?t have them is because we don?t have 13 any. 14 MR BUCHANAN: lgotcha. 15 MR EVERETT: But if you -- but I'll 2:53:32 12 Except for your lawyers that are here with you 13 today and Mr. Dougherty, who is not here today, have 14 you -- have you visited with anybody about your 15 deposition here today? 16 A No. I?m going to hand you what we've marked as 18 Exhibit 1 to your deposition. 19 Exhibit 1 was marked for 20 identi?cation and attached hereto.) 21 MR. EVERETT: I?ve got it. 22 BY MR. BUCHANAN: 23 And do you at least recognize this as a notice 24 to take your deposition here this morning? 23 A Yes. 0011 I All right. Have you -- if you ?ip to the very 2 last page, there is an Exhibit A attached to the 3 deposition notice, and there are 11 requests that -- 4 that we have listed. And these are requests for 5 documents that we asked you to bring with you here 6 today except for those that fall have already given us. Have you seen this list here before todaythis context, 9 Okay. A11 tight, Have you -- do you have 10 anything responsive to Request No. 2? 11 A Any responses 1 might have for this, my 12 attorneys will have. 13 Okay. 14 A But if there?s any responses, they have them. 15 Okay. Well, I tell you what, I?m going to 351: 16 you this. Do you have in your possession anything 17 that you -- not here with you here today, but 18 somewhere where you can get to it, do you have any 19 documents that you?ve you've given or received 20 from the 21 A No. 22 Okay. 23 MR. EVERETT: Tom, I gave you one 24 paper before this started that was given 25 to the FBI. 0012 1 PAIR. BUCHANAN: Okay. All right. 2 BY MR. BUCHANAN: 3 And we?ll we'll talk about it, and 1 think 4 that was 21 FedEx receipt. Other than that FedEx 5 receipt, was there -- has there been any documents 6 provided to the FBI that you know of? A No. Okay. Have you received any documents from the 9 10 A No. 1 1 The same question about the United States 12 Attorneys Of?ce. 13 A No. 2:53:32 16 cooperate with you if you want to l? subpoena those records or if you think an 13 authorization will work, either way, 19 BY MR. BUCHANAN: 20 In terms of -- of any landlines that you used 21 between January the lst, 2013, and August 3lst, 22 2013, and speci?cally this is Request No. 5, 23 what what -- what?s your -- what was your of?ce 24 nrunber at that time? 25 A It's (479)283?4672. 0015 1 And is that a direct line to -- to -- to you? 2 A No, Tha that's the line that most normally people that call into my of?ce would call. I have a direct line that?s (479)783-6694 at my of?ce, ves. For those two telephone numbers, who is the -- the carrier for that? A Do you have a -- a landline that you use other than those two telephone numbers tha -- that you just told us about? A Well, I have a landline at my house. Okay. A As cell phones become more and more popular, you know, landlines at your house are -- the only thing they?re good for is to have incoming telemarketers call you. But, you know, I can?t tell 18 you how often 1 use it, 19 Sure. Is -- the nvo numbers that you gave me 20 with respect to your of?ce -- 21 A Uh-huh. 22 have those changed at all since 23 January 2013? 24 A No, no, no. 'lhey have been the same. 25 The number at your at your house -- 0016 1 A Yes. 2 -- the landline, has it changed since 2013? 3 A No. 4 All right. Who was your carrierat your house? 5 A 6 All right. What's the -- the telephone number '1 at your house? 3 A (479)473-1999. 9 MR. BUCHANAN: Rather than belahor 10 each one of these, John, with respect to 11 Items 6 through 11,1 assume either we've 12 already got it or you don't have it. 13 MR. EVERETT: Well, 011 Item 14 have talked with you about that. 15 MR. BUCHANAN: Okay. 16 MR. EVERETT: And you told me that l? was limited to to documents about this 131er 2:53:32 2 3 4 5 BY MR. BUCHANAN: 6 7 8 museum 18 case, and we don?t have it. 19 MR BUCHANAN: That?s right. 20 MIL EVERETT: The other requests 21 involved requests of documents provided 22 to the FBI or the United States attorney, 23 one way or the other, and there were no 24 such documents. 25 MR. BUCHANAN: Except for the FedEx 0017 1 receipt? MR. EVERETT: Except for the one I gave you. MR. Okay. Do you use e-mail? A Yeah, occasionally. Notalot. Okay. Which -- do you have an e-rnail address? 9 A Yes, I do. 10 Okay. What is it? ll A It's Mmorton501@aol.cotrr. 12 Is there any other e-mail address that you?ve used since 2013? A No. I have another e-mail address I never use. 13 14 15 It's C-a-n-c-i-n-c, but I never use it. 16 Okay. What's the -- what what?s the address? 18 A Ithink it's Mmorton@cancinc.com. 19 That sounds like a corporate domain. 20 A Yeah. A lot of the people that work for me use 2i that, C-a-n?c-i-n-c. 22 Okay. Bu -- but you do not use this AOL 23 address? 24 A I use the AOL. 25 All right. Mmorton501@AOL.oom? 0018 A Yes. 2 All right. How many nursing homes do you own 3 an interest in? 4 A In the operating companies, operational-wise, 5 it's 34. 6 Okay. Are there some other nursing homes? 7 A lease some of them. 8 Okay. 9 A And when you say own, I don't know what you're 10 talking about. 11 All right. In addition to operating some 12 nursing homes, it sounds like you operate 34; is 13 that correct? 14 A Yes. 15 All right. It sounds like you at least own the 16 real estate and perhaps lease the operations to 17 another company? 18 A No. Ilease some facilities. 19 MR. EVERETT: Tom, we interpret -- 2:53:32 22 you mean? 23 A Yes. 24 And that's where you have your of?ce? 25 A Yes. 0021 Now, you've given several depositions in the past; isn't that true? A Yes. Do you lorow roughly how many times you?ve -- you've been deposed? A No. Can you give me an estimate? A Ten to 15. All right. Have all of those depositions related to some litigation with regard to a nursing home that you own interest in? A That I'm a stockholder in, yes. Sure. They don?t deal with any subject matter like we are dealing widr here today? A No. All right. You owned Greenbrier Nursing Rehab in 2013, correct? A As a stockholder, yes. Sure. And you were the only stockholder, right? A Yes. Okay. Is it okay if I just say Greenbrier instead of -- A That?s ?ne. saying the entire name? 0022 So you owned Greenbricr while Martha Bull was a 2 patient there, right? 3 A Yes. 4 And you owned Greenhrier when the trial of the 5 Martha Bull case occurred, right? 6 A Yes. 7 How long have you been in the nursing home 8 businessfora while without any 10 ownership. I didn't -- I did not have any - I 11 became a stockholderin the nursing home in 1976. 12 1976 is when you acquired an 13 interest? 14 A Yes. 15 All right. And assume, since thattime, you've 16 acquired what sounds like around 3-1 nursing homes, 17 whether you own or lease them? 13 A Yes. 19 And besides Greenbrier, you've -- you've owned 20 other nursing homes that have gone to trial in the 21 past, correct? 22 A Yes. 23 Do you know how many times one of your nursing 2:53:you know he owns the corporation, which, in turn, owns these. We're interpreting your question as being his ownership of those corporations. He does not own any nursing homes, I don't think, himself except through the corporate structure that you know about. MR BUCHANAN: Oh, sure. BY MR BUCHANAN: And you understood my question to mean that these are companies that you own interest in that A I'm a stockholder in these companies. Sure. A But what I was referring to was, when you say own, there are ?ve facilities thatI lease. Uh-huh. A I don't own guess I look at it, when people say, Do you own it? you own the bricks and mortar, and I don?t own five of them. I gotcha. Five of the 34? A Yes. All right. So you or one of your companies that you own interest in owns 29 nursing homes and operate another ?ve? A YES. All right. And I assume these are in Arkansas and Oklahoma, Missouri -- in Missouri? A Yes. Any other states? A No. All of the nursing homes that you or your 0020 companies operate, do they have a home o?ce? A Say that -- repeat the question1 please. Sure. Do your nursing homes have a home of?ce? A They have a -- an agreement with CANC to provide administrative services, and we provide payroll services and -- and accounting services. We pay bills; AR -- AP, AIL and Medicare billing. All right. And -- and that's for all the nursing homes that that you or one of your companies operates? A Yes. All right. And so is it fair to say that would be the headquarters, so to speak? A It would he the headquarters for that, an right. A What Ijust described. And the-- the -- the name on the door, I think it says Central Arkansas Nursing Centers, correct? A Yes. All right. So when you say CANC, is that what 15 2:53 32 24 25 homes has been in a trial? A No. 0023 I 25 Okay. Well, can you give me -- can you give me an estimate? A Are you talking about one home? The number of trials. Any home that you've owned. A No. No, I -- I'm not talking about cases. A No. Well, I -- MR. EVERETT: Say your question. MR BUCHANAN: Sure. MR. EVERETT: How many trials? MR. BUCHANAN: How many -- right. BY MR. BUCHANAN: How many trials -- how many how many -- how many tirnes have -- has a home that you own interest in been through a trial, a jury trial, and reached a verdict? A I don?t know. Bu -- my lawyers would probably know better than I, but I -- I don?t know. I've had the Hardin lesson ?rm for a long time, but before them, I used Mitchell Williams totally, Okay. A I would say -- if you want an estimate or do you want -- Sure. 0024 don't know, but I can estimate around maybe maybe 10 times for that, or less. THE WITNESS: You think? BY MR. BUCHANAN: Well, that's fair enough. I'm not after a precise answer. I just want to somehow to get me in the ballpark. A You know, I really feel uncomfortable when you say that about you're not wanting precise because this is a very precise situation here. Okay. Well, I appreciate that. And you -- A Because it's me. Yeah. I understand. A And -- and -- Well, before let me -- you do understand this is a question-and-answer session. A Yes. All right. A Yes. All right. So you estimate around 10 times; is that true? A I guess. Okay. All right. Do you ever recall losing a jury trial or one of your nursing homes losing a jury trial? 15 2: 53:32 2 Okay. Martha Bull, that case was the ?rst 3 case that one of your homes ever lost, true? 4 A Yes. 5 All right. Can we agree that the Martha Bull 6 case was a big case? 7 A Yes. 8 Signi?cant case? 9 A Yes. 10 It was an important case, wasn?t it? 11 A They?re all important. 12 Sure. 13 Do you recall that the Martha Bull trial 14 started on May the 7th of2013? 15 A No. 16 Okay. A Iknowitstarted in '13. 18 All right. Do you recall roughly how long it 19 lasted? 20 A They normally -- I don?t recall it 21 speci?cally, but they normally last around two 22 weeks. 23 Okay. And you didn?t attend any part of that trial? 1 All right. Is there a reason why not? 2 A My lawyers just told me that I didn?t need to show up. All right. Do you recall how many lawyers represented Greenbrier during the trial of that case? A No. Ilcnow that Stephanie did and -- and Kirk and Pruitt. Okay. What about Jeff Hat?eld, he was there too, right? A I don?t know. I'm -- Did Greenbrier have insurance coverage to cover the defense of that Bull case? A They had $100,000 -- their policy is 100,000 with a $200,000 aggregate. All right. All right. And by -- that 6358 went on for years befOre it went to trial, con'ect? A Yes. And leading up to that trial, had all ofthe 20 money on that policy been spent in defending the 21 case? 22 A In the policy, yes. 23 All right. 24 A For that -- it went on for five years -- 25 Sure. GaqauhmM?c?om?qo?mb?? I A -- prior to the trial. So every year thefd 2:53:32 I assume you recall the amount of the verdict. A Yes. And I assume that you recall that it was for the plaintiff. 8 A Yes. 9 All right. Were you informed that day of the 10 verdict? 11 A Yes, immediately after. 12 All right. Were you informed of the amount of 13 the verdict? 14 A Yes. 15 Okay. And so if the records in this case 16 indicate that the jury came back at 5:50 pm. on May the 16th, 2013, your recollection is, you recall 1% basically -- you recall basically immediately a?er 19 that time? 20 A Yes. 2} All right. So sometime around the -- the 22 six o'clock hour, probably? 23 A I would not be able to answer that truthfully. 24 That?s fair. 25 A Because I do not know. 1 That?s fair. Who informed you of the verdict? A The administrator. What -- who -- who was that? A Stacy Ussery. Now, Ms. Ussery, she was the administrator of Greenhrier at the time of the trial, con'ect? 2 A Yes. 8 She was not the administrator when Mrs. Bull 9 died at Greenbrier, true? 10 A Yes. 11 Okay. There had been some -- some changeover 12 in the administrator position? 13 A Yes. 14 All right. And she -- she informed you of the 15 verdict? 16 A Yes. 1? All right. What did she say? 18 A That it was $5.2 million. Did she say anything else? 20 A That we were held innocent on wrongful death 21 and a $5.2 million verdict for pain and suffering. 22 Okay. And innocent meaning not liable or 23 for Ms. Bull's -- 24 A Innocent, that?s what she said. 25 Okay. She said innocent? 0031 I A Yeah. 2 All right. And did she call you on your cell 3 phone? 4 A I can?t remember. Probably so. They mos?y do 5 now. IYLIIKHESS 2: $3 :32 2 have another 200,000 -- or a 200,000 aggregate -- 3 $100,000 policy, $200,000 aggregate a year. 4 All right. 5 A The wayl kind of looked at it, but it could 6 have been restricted just to one event. I'm not sure how the insurance works. 8 Okay. Well, let me ask it this way. Do you 9 know if there was insurance money that was paying 10 the defense during the trial of that case? 11 A No, there was not. 12 Okay. It was all gone? 13 A Yes. 14 All right. And so, in orderto satisfy a 15 verdict, a plainti??s verdict in that case, where 16 would the money come from l? A The nursing home. 18 an right. Which 19 A The corporation that was sueddid the corporation have 21 a million dollars at that time, liquid? 22 A No. 23 All right. Did it have access to where it 24 could liquidate to get to a million dollars? 25 A No. 0028 1 All right. The nursing home paid a million 2 dollars, correct? 3 A The -- the corporation that you successfully 4 sued paid the million, yes. 5 Okay. Where did they get the money that -- 6 A I gave it to them. 7 All right. All right. So you lcuewthat, if 8 there was a plaintiff?s verdict, either the company 9 ?as going to have to -- to satisfy the verdict or 10 you would have to loan the company money out of your 11 pocket? 12 A Yes. 3 All right. Do you lorow how much -- certainly, 14 there wasn?t enough insurance to satisfy a $52 15 million verdict, correct? 16 A Yes. 1? Certainly, the -- Greenbn'er didn?t have 18 5.2 million in -- in liquid assets, correct? 19 A Yes. 20 And so if if Greenhrier was going to satisfy 2] a $5.2 million judgment, you would have had to have 22 loaned it that, true? 23 A Yes. 24 Do you recall that the jury retnmed a verdict 25 for the plaintiffs in the Bull case on May the 16m 0029 of 2013? 2 A I'm -- if you say that's the date, I will 3 agree. 2:53:32 6 Okay. Do you know wher -- A l'm not sure, though. 8 Where were you when you received this phone 9 call? 10 A I was at home. ll All right. Was anybody with you at home at 12 that timehow long did this conversation with 15 Ms. Ussery last? 16 A I have no idea. 1? What was your reaction to the conversation? 18 A Just shock and awe. You know, 29 What did you do, if anything, when you got off 20 the phone with Ms. Ussery? 21 A Well, I had talked to different people. 22 Okay. Who else did you talk to? 23 A Wincy Hirsch, my director of operations. 24 Okay. Ms. Hirsch? 25 A Yeah. 0032 1 Okay. Who was the ?rst person that you called 2 after you got off the phone with Ms. Ussery? 3 A I don't lonow who all Italked to. I know that 4 I -- I'm almost positive I talked to Wincy. 5 All right. Did you call Wincy or did Wincy 6 call you? A I can?t remember that. And that?s what I was 8 going to say. I can?t remember if I called her or 9 she called me because Stacy probably called her too. 10 All right. Now= Wincy, she works for one of 1 your companies, correct? 12 A Yes. 13 And she wasn't at the trial either, was she? 14 A I don't think she was there, no. 15 All right. Why were you talking to Wincy about 16 the verdict? A Well, she's the director of operations. I 18 think Stacy had called her too. And -- so maybe she 19 called me. 1 can?t remember exactly how that went 20 Okay. Do you recall what you and Wincy talked 2] about? 22 A Just the trial and the -- you know, what the 23 verdict was. 24 Well -- go ahead. What was Wincy?s reaction, 25 if any, to the verdict? 0033 A We just -- the same as mine. lt's -- you know, 2 it?s kind of disbelief it would be that high. 3 Were you mad? 4 A I don?t -- I don?t think mad is -- you know, 1 guess it's upsetting. 6 Other than speak with Wincy and you spoke with 2 Ms. Ussery, who else did you visit with that night? 5 2:53:32 called Gilbert Baker. Okay. Now, why did you call Gilbert Baker? A Because Ihad been working with him and forming an organization called Adtansans for Lawsuit Reform, and I wanted to let him know that this is exactly what happens without reform, tort reform, and having limits on noneconomic manages, that it bankrupts companies. And this had bankrupt the nursing home. The $5.2 million was a judgment that was worth more than the nursing home. Sure. And you had set up your company to where it didn't have any assets, correct? A Yes. All right. Now, let me ask you this. So you had already started this group, Arkansans for Lawsuit Reform, before the trial of the case, true? A Yes. And at that point, you had lost zero jury 0034 trials, correct? A Yes. All right. So you call Gilbert Baker. Now, why was it that you called him? A Because he was the one thatI had talked to about heading up this organization. Okay. And how long was your telephone call with Mr. Baker? A I don?t know. A few minutes. I don?t recall, but I just know that I just wanted to - for birn to understand this is exactly what I had been talking to him about. Well, Mr. Baker supported tort reform for years, hasn?t be? A I would -- I think so. Sure. A I'm not positive. Sure. So this -- this, in your mind, was an example of that? A This was an example of -- of why I felt like, you know, we needed tort reform. All right. So what was Mr. Baker?s reaction? A He didn't have necessanly ?n I I - I don't know what his reaction was, otherthan he listened. 0035 I talked a lot. Okay. You know, and -- and -- Were you frustrated? Huh? Were you frustrated? I might have been ?usoated about Arkansans for Lawsuit Reform not - you know= maybe being ?rrther down the line. But when you talk about 29-0 29-0 >0 5 2:53 :3 2 12 What did you do the -- oh, did did Mr. Baker 13 tell you that he had sent a text to Judge Maggio 14 that day before you all talked? 15 A Not that I recall. 16 Okay. Did Mr. Baker -- 1? MR EVERETT: I think that question 18 is so ambiguous. I'm not sure the answer 19 makes any sense. 20 MR BUCHANAN: All right. 21 MR EVERETT: Is your question did 22 he tell Mr. Morton that he had sent a 23 text prior to Mr. Morton and Mr. Baker 24 talking? Is that your question? 25 MR. BUCHANAN: Yeah. And - and 0033 see ifI can do better, John. 2 MR. EVERETT: Okay. Okay. 3 BY MR. BUCHANAN: 4 Did -- when you were on the phone with -- with 5 Mr. Baker that night, the night of the verdict 6 A Yes. 7 -- did he indicate to you that he had been in 8 contact with Judge Maggie via text? 9 A Not not thatlrecall. I?rl?lI?lI?ll??l?lb-ll?Ib?Okay. Okay. We covered May the 16th of 2013, which would have been the night of the verdict, or I think we have. Is there anybody else you can think of you -- you talked with or -- or texted or communicated with at all? A No, not thatI can recall. Sure. I understand -- or somebody has -- has informed me that you don't text; is that correct? A I do a little, but it?s certainly not one of my strong points. Okay. A A lot of people like that, but I jusL.. Are there -- is there a reason that that-- that -- at least with respect to the records we've looked at so far, that you and Mr. Baker never texted? 0039 A I don't ever recall texting him. 2 Okay. Is there any reason that you don't text 3 him? 4 A No. I don?t text anybody, hardly. 5 All right. 6 A Ijust don't - I mean, I lorow thatl dotext people, but it's just not very much. It's -- a lot 8 of people, that?s the only way they conununicate now. 9 With respect to any contact with anyone about ll} 1] the verdict the night before, did you have any contact the next day, which would have been the 12 May the l'i'th, or conversations with anybody about 13 the verdict in the Bull case? ?ppDattri'T 2:53:32 10 frustration, I -- you know, we had done all we could, you know, as far as trying to defend the case, I think. Okay. But you weren?t frustrated about the l2 13 14 verdict for the plaintiffs favor or the size of it? 15 A I didn't agree with it. 16 Okay. You denied liability in your deposition inthat case, titre? 18 A YesWhen you were talking about liabilityphrase it this way. A Okay. Do you recall a question at the very end of 24 your deposition in the Bull case where I said, Mr. Morton, on behalf of Greenbrier Nursing 0036 22 23 24 Rehabilitation Center, do you deny any and all wrongdoing in this case? Do you recall that question? A I personally denied any wrongdoing in it, yes. Sure. And you personally deny any wrongdoing in this case, true? A Yes. All right. Other than Gilbert Baker, Wincy Hirsch, and Ms. Ussery, who else did you visit with that night? A That's all I can remember. If -- if those three. When you get to talking about it, I could have just talked to Wincy. Stacy could have talked to her. But anyway, that?s all I know. Okay. So now are you saying that you didn't visit with Stacy? A No, I?m not saying that I didn't. I'm just -- I know that I talked to either Wincy or Stacy, and I might have talked to them both, but it was just about the case, about the results, the verdict. So what can we look at to determine exactly who you talked to that night? A Well, the -- I probably talked to both of them, but and -- and it probably went the way I said. But that's to the best of my recollection. 003Okay. Well, what -- is there -- are there some documents you could look at to determine who exactly you talked to that night? A No. You couldn't -- A Other than, I guess, phone records. Okay. When you talked to Mr. Baker, was there any discussion about the Maggio campaign? A That night? Yes. A No. 253:32 14 Ha allI'm sure I had conversations with a lot of people, but I most certainly can?t remember them all. Okay. A lawyers, mainly. And I'm not talking about any -- any -- I'm excluding, throughout this deposition, any contact or -- that you've had with lawyers. Do you recall visiting with Mr. Baker the next day? A Yes. I called -- I tltinkl called him the next day. 0040 All right. So ifthe verdict was May the 16th, this would be May the 17th? A Yes. All right. What was the purpose of the call? A The night before, when we were tallo'ng, he had told me that one of his assistants was on the jury that had worked for him or had worked at the college or something that he knew, and he had never said a word about that. And I said, Well, you ought to ask her, or if you can, ?nd out why they made it so high, the -- the verdict. And he had never said a word about anybody being on ?iejury to me before. I mean, that's the firstl had ever known that. And I took that to mean -- he didn?t ever say anything because he didn?t want me to know. And -- but I did want to know. And then the next day, unbelotownst to me, I guess by that time, Judge Maggio had already gotten the -- had gotten an e?mai1 from a juror saying they thought that the whole thing was wrong. This person who was an assistant that Mr. Baker knew, was it Jamie Duvail? A I have no idea. Okay. Was it the juror who sent the email? A No. I know that for a fact it?s not. Okay. All right. So what, if anything, do you 0041 13 14 15 know about any conversation that Mr. Baker had with this assistant that was on the jury? A None at all except the next day he did talk to her some after the verdict to and -- and the best I recall, she talked about, I think, perhaps insurance, thinking there was a big insurance policy behind the whole thing. And that?s about it. You know, he -- he -- he didn't -- there was not a lot of information, you know, that -- that he knew, it seemed to me like, ??om talking to her, So bad he already talked to her by the time you visited with n- with Mr. Baker? A The next day? Yes. A I think so. 2:53:32 Did you have any contact with Mr. Baker during the trial? MR EVERETT: Let me make -- at my age, I don?t hear as well as I should. My recollection ofthc testimony is that he had talked to her son, DidI get that wrong? Maybe I heard the word "son" that was not mentioned. THE WITNESS: To whose son? MR. EVERETT: Gilbert Baker had talked to this unknown lady's son. THE WITNESS: Oh, I I -- I don"t think so. MR. EVERETT: Then i heard it wrong. I'm sorry. Go ahead. BY MR. BUCHANAN: The -- during the course of the trial in the Martha Bull case, did you and -- and Mr. Baker have any contact or conversation? A No. Are you talking about the trial itself? During the trial. Not after the verdict, but during the actual jury trial itself when the jury was sitting in the box or deliberating. A The only thing that that i remember having a conversation with him was the famous lunch at Brave New Restaurant. Arid -- and and I think --I --I mentioned to him then that, The trial is going on in in Conway right now. But he had asked me if I would support Judge Maggie for appeals court judge. Okay. All right. And we?ll talk about that-- that conversation later. I appreciate your answer. But -- A That -- that was during the trial. Sure. Sure. And I understand. A Yeah. [1043 We're talking now -- right now about the day after the verdict came back A Yeah. And you told us that you visited with Mr. Baker and Mr. Baker told you about his conversation with one of his assistants, right, who was on thejury? A Yes. All right. Did -- who else did you visit with that day that you recall? A Like I said, I?m -- I'm sure I visited with my lawyers a lot. Started, you know, Kirk and Stephanie. Sure. And I don't want to - A Yeah. You know, probably people in the industry, you know -- you know, wanting to know. Okay. People in -- in -- in what industry? A The nursing home industry. 2:53:32 20 know that -- I don?t even know if that's true. All right. A I?m talking about what I was reading. All right. Where did you read that! called Max? A I didn?t. 0046 Okay. All right. MR. EVERETT: I don't thin he testi?ed that he did. WITNESS: I did I didn?t say that, did 1? MR EVERETT: No. THE WITNESS: I didn't think so. BY MR. BUCHANAN: What?s the next time that you recall having any discussion, any particular discussion about the case, what you feel that it was too high, or the verdict? I A Well, Mr. Buchanan, irregardless of what I felt, okay, the verdict was 5 .2 million. Sir, my question is, when is the next time? A Okay. Well, you're asking me what I felt or what I discust about it being too high. I dian sit around and discuss forever about anything being too high. It was what it was. \Vell, okay. When is the next time that you had a discussion with anybody about the verdict? A The next time 1 could get in here and talk to my attorneys. Okay. Otherthan your attorneys, when is the next: time you talked to anybody else? 004? I DICJHC A 1 have no idea what -- I'rn -- I mean, I can?t remember discussions i had with everybody in 2013. Okay. On May the l?th, I?ve been informed that there -- there was a meeting between Mr. Baker and the nursing home folks. Do you know anything about that? A May the 16th? Yes, the day of the verdict. MR. EVERETT: What nursing home folks? BY MR. BUCHANAN: I?ll mark as Exhibit 2 to your deposition a copy of the plea agreement. Mr. Morton, I think you told us you reviewed that prior to your deposition; is that right? (WHEREUPON, Exhibit 2 was marked for identi?cation and attached hereto.) A I have glanced over it. I?ve not memorized this. Do you at least ntcognize this to be the plea agreement that Judge Maggie -- well, he wasn't a 2:53:Okay. Are -- are you saying you know for a fact you visited with people in the nursing home industry? A I can?t remember. I'm -- I'm almost certain thatI would have, but I -- you know, that?s just conjecture. I don't know. Sure. A I can?t -- I can?t give you a de?nite answer 0044 that. Who in the industry would'you have visited with? A Well, most of the people thatl would -- would have been the people that l'm closest to. For example, like Jim Cooper. I might have talked with him. I'm not Sure. Jim Cooper, does he live around Melbourne? A Yes. All right. And who else do you think you would have talked to that day or talked with? A People thatI would just normally talk to every day, people that work for me. Okay. Ms. Hirsch? A I?m sure. Do you recall any conversation that you had with with Jim Cooper? A No. When is the next time that you recall visiting with anybody about the Bull verdict or what you believe, that it was too high. other than your lawyers? A Are you -- I would suspect it would have been constant, but i -- I don't -- the people that worked for me would want to talk about it, you know. 0045 Okay. A You know, it was a big matter of discussion all over the place. There was, you know -- you had gone down and talked to -- Max Brantley had an article, and they wanted to talk about it. You have all of people wanting to talk to you about things. Sure. A And I can?t remember them all. Sure. A But 1 know thatl had several discussions with my attorneys. That was the main ones I remember. Sure. A What a -- what a -- what a discussion would be about would be the ones with my attomeys. All right. Do you know if Max called me or if I called Max? A have no idea. Okay. A All 1 know is what he wrote. And whetherl 2:53:32 22 23 24 25 judge at that time, but Mr. Maggie signed where he pleaded guilty of bribery? A Yos. All right. And if you will turn to page 6, and 0048 if you look towards the bottom of the page, the last few lines, just let me knew when you're there. A l'm on 6. All right. If you look towards the bottom of the page, it says, "On or about May 16, 2013, at approximately l0:33 Individual sent Maggio a text stating, have a Little Rock lunch today with the nursing home folks. The topic will be judicial races. 1rr?ou are at the top of the list."' Do you see that? A Yes. Were you at that meeting? A If this is the meeting at the Brave New Restaurant, 1 was there. Okay. Well, at the meeting with the Brave New Restauan who all was there? A Myself, Jim Cooper, David Norsworthy, Ernest Cunningham, Gilbert Baker, our -- Rachel Davis. I think Rachel went, and might be -- it might have -- it might have been Donna our director -- or executive director of the association was Donna -- I forgot her last name. But the one now is Rachel Davis. She could have been -- both of them could have been there. I'm not sure. And -- and the Flanagan -- Linda Lee Flanagan and then Eddie Joe 0049 21 22 23 Williams. Now, is this the -- is this the meeting where you referenced that you just bumped into Linda Lee Flanagan at Brave New? A We had -- we had lunch in there in the back room and discussed different things about, as I recall, tort reform and the different aspects of trying to, you know, accomplish the goal of having tort reform. Okay. I want to make sure that -- thatl have all of the names down. I have Jim Cooper, David Norsworthy, Ernest Cunningham, Gilbert Baker, Rachel Davis, Linda Lee Flanagan, Eddie Joe Williams. Anybody else? A I just said Donna. l'm sorry. A I think, at the time, our executive director was a different girl. And but Rachel Davis was her assistant. So Rachel -- Rachel is the one now. So Rachel could have been there. l'm not sure about that. But you don?t recall Donna's last name? A No. I should recall it, 005 some 1 5 2:53:32 24 When you say the association, what association 25 are you talking about? 0050 A The Arkansas Healtheare Asaociation. 2 Okay. That's the -- the trade organization for 3 the nursing homes? Yeah. Yes. All right. Yes. And Earnest Cunningham, he's a lobbyist, right? Yes. Was he a lobbyist -- is he a lobbyist for the 10 healthcare association? 11 A Yes. 12 Eddie Joe Williamsstate 13 senator or a state representative? 14 A He is a state senator. 15 Okay. At the time, was the session still going 16 on? 17 A No. 18 The session was over? 19 A Yes. 20 So why were y?all talking about tort reform if 21 the session was over? 22 A. Well, I thinkwhat we were talking about was 23 the dismal failure that we had, perhaps, but I'm not 24 sure, you know, why 25 Okay. Jim Cooper, he's your friend that you 0051 1 had already visited with about -- about well, 2 he's your friend, right? 3 A Yeah. And Iharin't already visited with him 4 about anything because the verdict wasn't -- 5 Sure. 6 A I didn?t know anything about a -- The verdict came down thatnight. 8 A I guess. I know that weil, keep going and 9 -- because you're talking about me bumping into 10 Gilbert, and 11 Okay. David Norsworthy, you and him are 12 partners on some nursing homes, right? 13 A Yes. 14 Ernest Cunningham, does he have a role other 15 than being a lobbyist for the healthcare to association? A No, not that I know of. He could be a lobbyist 13 for other people. 19 Okay. Mr. Baker, at that time, be worked for 20 UCA, right? 21 A 1 can?t speak for that. I don?t know if he was 22 working for UCA or -- then or who all be worked for. 23 Well, you -- you weren?t aware that he had a 24 fullwtime job as executive assistant to the 25 president of I I Wall-'7 2:53:32 2 Maggio. 3 Okay. 4 A And then some different folks. And I (ain?t 5 remember if -- if it was just Maggio and -- and -- 6 1 -- Ithink that they mentioned Rhonda Wood at the 7 time, which I would -- you know, 1 was going to 8 support her anyway. But but -- and Idon?t know 9 who all else. I can't remember, I mean, Gilbert 10 was always raising money for candidates. 11 Okay. 12 A He was recruiting -- he recruited and he -- and 13 he raised money for candidates. 14 Do you know ifhe recruited Maggio to run? 15 A Ihave no idea. 15 Did he ever tell you that he had recruited 1? Magic to rundid you understand him to mean that 20 he was looking to raise money for Maggjo? 21 A He wanted to know if -- anytime anybody asked 22 me if I would support someone, they were asking me 23 if I would support them with money. 24 Okay. And so other -- 25 A That?s what I would take that to mean. 0055 1 Okay. So you -- at that time, on that day, 2 May the 16111 lunch at Brave New - 3 A Uh-hul'l. 4 -- Gilbert and and Linda Lee Flanagan left, 5 and you somehow bumped into -- 6 A Well, I didn?t know where they had gone. 7 Uh-hub. 8 A I didn't -- I didn?t even think anyming else 9 about it, So when was leaving, I was surprised 10 thatl you know, when] say bump into them, I'm ll leaving and there they are. 12 Okay. 13 A And said, Hey, we need to talk to you. 14 All right. 15 MR. BUCHANAN: Well, I think we need 16 to change the tape beeause we're about out of tape. 18 THE WTINESS: Okay. I'm going to 19 run to the restroom. 20 THE The time is 2] 11am. This is the end ofTape No. to 22 the deposition of Michael Morton. We're 23 now off the record. 24 (WI-IEREUPON, after a break was taken, 25 the proceedings resumed as follows:) 0056 1 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 10 2 minutes past 11. This is thestartof 3 Tape No. 2 to the deposition of Michael 2:53:32 0052 A I might not have been aware of that at the 2 time, 3 And then Rachel Davis, you said she was -- was 4 the incoming -- 5 A She works for our association. 6 All right. And then Linda Lee Flanagan? 7 A Donna Childress. Childress is her last name, 8 C?h?i-l-d-r-e-s-s. 9 Thank you. 10 A Yeah. 11 Linda Lee Flanagan, what was her role? 12 A I didn't know at the time, but she was the l3 assistant to -- to Gilbert. 1-1 At 15 A I don?t know. 16 Okay. Eddie .loe Williams, we?ve already discussed he was a state senator? 18 A Yeah. You've 19 He was also -- he had just been chairman of the 20 judiciary committee, right? 21 A I'm not sure. 22 For state agencies? 23 A I don't know which one he was. 24 All right. And so I want to make sure I 25 understand. This -- this meeting, do you know who 0053 1 arranged it? 2 A No] do not. 3 All right. And do you know how long it lasted? 4 A We had lunch. Probably -- I'd say maybe an 5 hour. 6 Do you know who paid for it? A Yeah. Ernest Cunningham did, or the 8 association did, I guess. 9 Otherthan tort refbnn, was there any other It) discussion? 11 A I'm sure I don?t -- you know, there?s always 12 a menagerie of things to talk about, I guess, but 13 thatwas the main purpose of it, I'm sure. 14 Was this the -- was this the meeting where you 15 bumped into -- to Ms. Flanagan? 16 A Well, what happened is, Gilbert and her left before, and we were -- we stayed there. And -- 1 18 mean, they lelt. And so when I left, I went out the 19 front. And I don?t know why I did. I -- but 20 anyway, Gilbert was sitting at a table against the 21 wall with - and they hollered at me to come over 22 there, And that's when I was asked about supporting 23 different people. 24 Okay. Who all -- which people were you asked 25 about? 0054 A Well, the ?rst one was if I would support 2:53:32 4 Morton. We're back on the record. 5 Counselor. 6 BY MR BUCHANAN: Mr. Morton, we've had a chance to change the 8 tape. I notice -- did you -- did you and Gilbert 9 Mr. Baker shake hands 10 A Yes. 11 - during the break? 12 Let?s go back to th -- this meeting at Brave .3 New Restaurant because I want to understand exactly 14 where you were when you were having this 15 conversation. Were you -- you were -- were you at a 16 table with Mr. Baker and ?v and Ms. Flanagan? l? A They were sitting at stable. Ijust stood up. 18 It was a very short -- all it was was, Would you 19 support? 20 All right. Do you -- do you know where in the 2} restaurant the table was located? 22 A Have you ever been to Brave New? 23 I have. 24 A When you go in and they -- you know, where the 25 deal is that seats you? It's in that big room 0057 1 there, and they were kind of behind it. 2 All right. 3 A Okay. Where we had had lunch -- have you ever 4 been in the back room back there where 5 I have not, but] know where it is. 6 A Okay. Well, there's a room back there behind 'l -- through some doors. That's where we had had 8 lunch. So she and him had left, and I'm -- you 9 know, we were still talking and stu??. I don?t know 10 what about. You know, I have a lot of things I talk 11 to my friends about. But anyway, when Ilel?r, I 12 went out the way by where they seat you. And I was 13 walking through, and they hollered at me. And David 14 Norsworthy was with me. He heard this whole 15 conversation. And I didn't even sit down. They 16 were sitting there, and I don?t know why they stayed there. I guess to talk to other people. I do not 13 know. But whenI walked by, they hollered at me. 1 19 went over, and they started talking to me about -- 20 the one thatl remember the most because of all of 21 this is because -- about Maggio. 22 All right. 23 A would Support Maggio. 24 And -- and then you also mentioned Rhonda Wood 25 as well, correct? 0058 1 A 1 think that day he asked me about Rhonda because, you know, we knew that she was going to run for Supreme Court. I was already going to support her anyway, butl told him yes because, you know, he had -- he had worked on her stuff before. 253:32 6 Sure. 2 Any other judge that you can recall any discussion about, other -- during that conversation, other than Maggie and Wood? A No. All right. And so did you leave the restaurant? A Yes. Okay. Did you leave with Mr. Norsrvorthy? A Yes. All right. Where did you go after that? A I have no idea. All right. Where does Mr. Norsworthy live? A He has a place that's right in past Rogers, right I think it?s in Missouri. It's right 21 inside the -- on the line up there. 22 Okay. So -- 23 A Nonhwest Arkansas. I would -- would 24 categorize it as that. 25 All right. At some point, did you come home 0059 1 that day? 2 A I don't know. I could have spent the night, 3 but normally, I go down there and come home. 4 Sure. 5 Well, we know that you said you were at home 6 when you heard about the verdict. 7 A Okay. Then I did. 8 All right. Did you and Mr. Norsworthy travel 9 together? 10 A No. 11 When you -- how did you get home? Did you 12 drive? 13 A I don't know if I did or not. 14 All right. 15 A I could have flown, but, you know, don't know. 16 Did you and Mr. Baker have any discussion about 1? the trial that was going on? 18 A No, otherthanl told him thatthe trial was 19 going on at that time. And -- but when he -- well, 20 he just asked me if I would support Maggio, and I 21 said, Well, yeah. You know, that trial is going on 22 right now. I have a trial going on up there now. 23 Any -- anything other than mentioning the 2.4 trial? 25 A No. And, you know, I guess Gilbert didn't know 0060 1 that, you know, because when I told him, you know, 2 he didn?t know it, you know. And I just mentioned 3 it, I?ve got a nial going on up there right now. 4 All right. And so as of at least around noonknew about it then, correct? 6 A Yes. 7 All right. Did you have any concerns about 1 1' 53:32 to Okay. 11 A -- 1?11 agree with them if -- if that's --1 do 12 remember that Gilbert paid for it. 13 All right. Well, let's attach your discovery 14 responses as Exhibit 3 to your deposition so we how 15 what we're v- we?ll have an easy wayto reference 16 them. (WHEREUPON, Exhibit 3 was marked for 18 identi?cation and attached hereto.) 19 MR. BUCHANAN: John, would you like 20 a copy? 21 MR. EVERETT: I've got them. I 22 doa't know ifI have them here, but I?ll 23 get to them. 24 BY MR. BUCHANAN: 25 Is what I've marked as Exhibit 3, does this 0063 1 appear to be your -- your discovery responses? 2 A I have no idea, but what page do you want me to 3 go to? 4 Well, let?s let's just look at the very 5 ?rst page. Does it say, "Separate Defendant 6 Michael Morton?s Objections and Responses to Plaintiffs First Set of Interrogatories and Request 8 for Production of Documents"? 9 A Yes. 10 Okay. All right. Let's go to page 6, ll Interrogatory No. 10. And the question that -- that 12 my clients asked you was, explain -- ?Please explain 13 in detail any communications you have had with 14 defendant, Gilbert Baker, regarding any of the 15 following," and there's a list of subjects there. 16 A Yes. 17 Do you see that? 18 A Yes. 19 All right. Now, ifyou turn to the back page, 20 page 12, you?ll see there's a date that your lawyer 21 sent them over to us. The very last page, it looks 22 like -- does it appear to be January the 5th? 23 A Let me see yours. 24 Page 12? 25 A Okay. Yes. 0064 1 Okay. So -- so these were the discovery responses that you -- you I think you said you looked over before your deposition? My lawyers looked over them. All right. Yes. All right. And they were sentto -- And they were -- they were -- yes. And they were sent to us January the 3th, right? A Yes. 2: 53:32 supporting Maggio while the trial was going on? A No. The -- we know you -- you found out about the verdict that night, and we've talked about that. A Yes. Anything that you can recall that you can add about that day now that we?ve talked about some other things? A The day -- no, not the day of. All right. When you -- when you bumped into Mr. Baker and Mrs. Flanagan, was that the very ?rst time that you felt like anyone was asking you to support the Maggio campaign? Af 'Ihat was the very ?rst time I had ever heard 0 it. All right. When was your next contact with Mr. Baker? A I don't know how much long -- what time period 0061 moon-Jambme was after that, but he called me and wanted to -- and we met at Ruby Tuesday's in Russellville, and he wanted to talk speci?cally about different campaigns and then -- and different things that he wanted me to contribute to. So he called you, right? A Yes. I had -- when we were at the Brave New, I told him, Just call me, you know, and get in touch with me. You know, when he --I mean, [didn't talk to him anything about any speci?cs or anything, what he wanted me to do or anything else. He just asked me if I would support -- if -- if -- if he could count on my support. And I said, Yes. And so I told him, I said, Call me and we'll get together or something, and so he did. So how -- how much lead time was there between when he called you and when y'all met in Rnssellville? A I do not recall. I mean, was it, Let's meet next Tuesday, or, Let's meet tomorrow, or, Let?s meet today? 1 mean, can you give me a feel for that? A No, because I cannot remember. I it -- you lorow, it certainly wasn?t the next day because] bad just been told I was going to have to pay 0062 52 million, and my nursing home was, I felt like, bankrupt, All right. And so you had this meeting with -- with Mr. Baker, and and I think, at least according to your discovery responses, and we can dig them out if we need to, I think this meeting is June the 3th. Does that ring a bellthat's what my discovery responses said ?AppDataJ'l'. 2:53:32 Okay. Let?s look at -- at page 6. We're asking you about any corrununications you had with Gilbert Baker. And then, if you turn to page 7, you'll see some -- some conversations. A It says, "Defendant recalls a subsequent in-person conversation with Mr. Baker in Rnssellville, Arkansas." "Approximately one month prior to the issuance of the checks produced." A Produced, yes. "In which Mr. Baker discussed speci?c contribution amounts for these judicial candidates, including Judge Maggio." Does that sound right? 0065 Yes. Okay. So if the checks were issued on July the 8th., this w0uld be around early June sometime? A I guess so. Okay. A It says, "Approximately one month prior.? All rightyou know it was approximately one month prior, this meeting? A Because you?ve kind of talked me into agreeing with you on that. So you want me to change that? No. A Okay. 1 mean, Ijust want to make sure -- make sure that we're -- we're -- we're communicating. A Well, I can't tell you the exact date is what I?m trying to tell you, but 1 know it was after the Brave New Restaurant. 1 know the discussion was to get together and and discuss specific amounts and things Okay. A -- and different people. All right. So who all was present at this mee1ing? A Myself and Gilbert. And who else? 0066 Nobody. All right. And and you discussed speci?c contribution amounts for judicial candidates; is that correct? A Yes. All right. Which judicial candidates? A Judge Maggio and Rhonda Wood. Any others? A There could have been others, but 1 don't think so at the time. I don't -- I don't think so that day. All right. And what what speci?c contribution amounts did you discuss? Ritz-WC 2:53:32 14 A You mean for the the two candidates? 15 Yes. 16 A He had talked about wanting di?erent amounts 1? of money, and he wanted to put the Judge Maggie 18 meney in PACs and started telling me the names of 19 these PACs. And I -- and then the speci?c amount 20 for Rhonda Wood, he started telling it, so I said, 21 Listen, what I need list of 22 all of these PACs and the amounts and stu?? because 23 I can't rememberall oftbis. And you need to fax 24 it to me sometime, and -- and, you know, I'll go 25 from there. 006? 1 Did what was the speci?c - I mean, was 2 there -- was the Maggie money supposed to add up to 3 a particular sum? 4 A Yes. 5 Okay. 6 A I took itto -- to to mean that, yeah. Okay. And what was that -- the SIJJTI that you 8 all discussed? 9 A You know, as I recall -- Iknow what I got in 10 the fax. and so I can't --I can?t recall the 11 speci?c conversation at the Ruby Tuesday's here. 12 But when 1 got the fax, I remember it bewme it was 13 30,000. 14 Okay. It was $30,000? 15 A And then I think 50,000 for Rhonda Wood. l6 All right. Did Mr. Baker -- well, you?ve been 1? giving to judicial tainpaigns for many years, 18 correct? 19 A Yes. 20 How long have you been giving to judicial 21 campaigns in Arkansas? 22 A You know, I can?t remember when I have given -- 23 the one that -- where -- where I remember 24 and remember getting, you know, what I feel like is 25 involved -- for me, really involved, was with the 0063 1 at the time, her name was Courtney Henry. 2 Well, I guess my question -- 3 A Courtney Goodson now. 4 My question to you is, how long have you been 5 giving -- regardless of of whether it's 6 signi?cant involvement in your view or not, how 7 long have you been contributing to judicial races? 8 A A long time. 9 Over 10 years? 10 A Yes. 11 Do you know roughly how many judicial 12 candidates you've given to over the years? 13 A No. 14 Lots? 15 A Yes. 15 2:53 :32 18 You did? 19 A I did not know that there was a ISO?day. l've 20 already said that. 21 All right. 22 A I didn't know the 180-day rule. But what Tm 23 trying to tell you is, there are times thatl was 24 solicited, I guess, about -- for example, when 25 Courtney Henry wanted to meet with me, you know, 0071 about running for Supreme Court, I don?t know if it was the 180 days or not. You know, I -- Iwasn?t aware of it then, but 1 do know that she was like -- it was like a political race. They are like political laces, whether you want to call them that or not. And -- and they want their money early so anyone that's thinking about running against them know that they're going to be well-?mded. Okay. So -- 10 A I didn?t see this as any other way. 11 All right. Wellsomething. Did Courtney Henry personally solicit 13 funds from you for her campaign? 14 A Courtney Henry personally talked to me about 15 her running for Supreme Court. 16 No. My question is -- 1? A She did not she did not say anything about 18 money to me. 19 Okaybut when I did give moneyto her, 21 no one said anything about 180 days. So I didn't 22 ever know about it. 23 Okay. You -- 24 A It could have been with do you see what I'm 25 saying? It could have been within the time period 0072 and Well, you would expect someone running for 3 judicial of?ce and folks in their campaign to know 4 when they can take money and when they can?t, true? 5 A Yes. 6 All right. And you're not saying -- give me 2 one person, the name of one person. You've given me 8 Rhonda Wood. The name of one person running for 9 judicial o?ice that the campaign outside of the 10 130-day period cattle to you and wanted money, not 1 1 wanting to meet with you. but wanted money. ornamental-nun 12 MR. WATTS: I'm going to object to 13 the form. 14 THE WITNESS: Okay. 15 MR. BUCHANANbetter. 1? BY MR. BUCHANAN: 18 Other than the Maggio campaign, who else has 19 solicited money ?om you outside the ISO-day window ?lezllquUmsimm 2:53:32 More than 20? Probably not that, but. .. Close to that? Maybe. Do you know how much money you've given over 21 the years to judicial candidateshead. 23 Would it be in excess of $100,000? 24 A Yes. 25 Would it be in excess of $200,000? 0069 A I don?t know. 2 Are you aware that there was -- there's a 3 ISO-day window period where basically a candidate 4 for judicial of?ce cannot solicit or receive 5 campaign funds more than 180 days before the IS judicial election? Were you aware of that? 7 A What's the question? 3 Were you aware of that? 9 A When? 10 At the time that you were meeting with Gilben 11 Baker. 12 A No. 13 Okay. Do you know if he was aware of that? 14 A No. 15 Would you expect him to be aware of that? 16 A I would expect a person -- I mean, Itlrink any 12 prudent person would think that, if someone was -- 18 was collecting money for a candidate, that they 19 would know that, yes. 20 Okay. And would you expect somebody who has 21 given over $100,000 to question why the money is 22 being raised so early? 23 A Well, at the time, everybody and their dog was 24 up at my of?ce wanting money early. 25 Judicial races, not -- not -- 0020 1 A It didn't matter what it was. People were talking to me about wanting money all the time, and and I'm not sure -- you know, when you when you get to giving money and I know that, during the legislative session, like 30 days before and I think 30 days after, you can?t solicit money. But as soon as they can, they -- everybody wants to get show money. And it's the same thing with judges. 10 And just -- maybe we can cut this off. I'm not 11 interested in legislative donations because they?re 12 a di?'erent set of rules, correct? 13 A Yes. 14 All right. You know that now? 15 A Yes. 16 All right. You didn't know that then? A Yes. a o>o>o SACotIId-?Ziim? 15 2:53:32 20 for judicial campaigns? 21 A Iwould have -- 22 MR WATTS: Which -- and I'm not -- 23 really not trying to do speaking. When 24 you say Maggio campaign, are you saying 25 that he was with that campaign? 0023 1 MR. BUCHANAN: I'm saying -- yes, 2 I?m saying the -- that Gilbert was an 3 agent of the campaign. 4 MR. WATTS: Okay. Then I have to 5 object to the form of the question. 6 MR. BUCHANAN: Okay. 7 BY MR. BUCHANAN: Let me -- let me ask you this way. Did you -- 9 did you believe Gilbert Baker to be af?liated with 10 the Maggie campaign? 11 A I believed him to be raising money for 12 Judge Maggio, that he was going to be -- but he 13 didn't say that in words. He just asked if I had 14 any support. And then later on, after the meeting 15 at Ruby Tuesday's, you know, he -- he did express, 36 you know, money. Okay. Let's talk about the meeting at Ruby 18 Tuesdafs. When you were at that meeting, did you 19 believe Mr. Baker to be a?iliated with the Maggie 20 campaign? 21 A Well, when you talk about af?liated, I -- you 22 know, I I just -- there are people coming to me 23 all the time wanting me to support people and -- and 24 saying, Can you give them money? 25 Okay. 0074 A And they are not necessarily af?liated with 2 the campaign. But, you know, I did know that 3 Gilbert, in the past, has recruited candidates. 4 He's tried to help raise money for candidates, you 5 know. I didn't see this any other way. 5 Okay. Did you believe -- during the -- the 2 meeting in Russellville, did you believe that 8 Mr. Baker was trying to solicit money from you for 9 Maggio to run for Court of Appeals? 10 A Yes. 1 1 Okay. And did you believe Mr. Baker was 12 soliciting money for Rhonda Wood to run for Supreme 13 Court? 14 A 1ties. 15 All right. Has anybody, other than Mr. Baker, 16 solicited money from you for a judicial candidate 1? prior to the ISO-day period? 18 A have no idea if they ever have. 19 Okay. So as you sit here right now, you cent 20 give me the name of -- of one person who has run for 21 of?ce, judicial of?ce, that has solicited from you 2:53:32 22 outside the 130-day period? 23 A I do not know. 24 Okay. But you can't give me any names? 25 A No. 0025 1 All right. Have you ever had a judicial 2 candidate or anyone who has come to you on behalf of 3 ajudicial candidate asking you to put money in PAC: 4 rather than contribute directly? 5 A No. 6 So the way that the Maggio money would be structured would be different than you've done in 8 the past? 9 A Yes. 10 All right. Did you ask whyExplain whydidn't ask. 14 Okay. Well, did did Mr. Baker volunteer, 15 This is why we're going to put the Maggio money in 16 A No. 18 Okay. And you didn?t ask, Why are we putting 19 the Maggio money this covers not only the last 22 judicial election, but at any time that you Can 23 recall, or a judicial campaign, has anybody asked 24 you to, Do not give the candidate or the 25 campaign, put the money in 0026 I A In a judicial campaign? 2 Yes. 3 A No. 4 All right. Did you think Maggio -- the money for Maggio to be -- being put in 6 A Not necessarily. 3 Okay. Why didn't you think it was odd? 9 A Because I had put money in PACs before that 10 Gilbert had solicited for different organizations 11 that were PACs. 12 But none for judicial -- 13 A No. 14 -- candidates?I 15 A Not that I -- no. No, not thatI know of. 15 Okay. You'rejust talking about FAQs in 1? general? 13 A Yes. 19 Did you ?nd it odd that the money you intended 20 to send to Maggio was being put into 21 A Not necessarily. I said I had been requested. 22 I -- I was familiar with PACs. You know, it 23 wasn?t -- it wasn't unusual for me to he asked to ?les-?ttq?' 2:53:32 0029 A When he sent me the fax 2 Okay. 3 A And he had put amounts on there, the amounts of 4 money, and I went ahead and and wrote the full 5 fi?y for Arkansans for Lawsuit Reform. 6 Okay. All right. You also mentioned that -- if you would consider a. donation to the UCA 8 Foundation? 9 A Yes. 10 All right. Do you have any connection to 11 A Yes. 12 Okay. What?s your connection? 13 A My connection is, I realized -- when he sent me 14 the fax, he put a question mark. He didn?t put any 15 speci?c amount of money, but he put a question 16 mark. And I got to thinking about UCA, and and my connection with UCA, you asked me that. 18 Thank you. Yes. 19 A My connection is is that over half v- or 20 50 percent of all the therapists that work in my 21 nursing homes have graduated from UCA. If UCA 22 didn't graduate those therapists to work in my 23 nursing homes, I wouldn?t have any nursing homes. 24 Sure. 25 Let me ask you. Other than -- did you -- have 0080 1 you ever had any family attend Not that I know of. Do you have any family that are on the faculty? Not that I loiow of. Do you know anyone on the faculty at No. Do you know anybody in administration of No. Have you ever had a relative who's been an 10 empioyee of UCA at any capacity? 11 A No. 12 Have you had any relatives whatsoever attend ?maxim-boa 14 A No. 15 Have you been to UCA ?tnctions? A No. 1? Have -- when's the last time you were on campus 18 at 19 A Never, thatI know of. 20 an right. So ?u 21 A Other than picking someone up. 22 All right. So -- and who were you picking up? 23 A A friend of mine that works for me in or did 24 work for me in Conway. 25 All right. And so you?re going to make this -- 0031 1 you -- I think you told us, when you get the an, 2:53 32 24 put money in a PAC because I have given lots of 25 money to PACs. 00?? I Okay. Did you ?nd it unusual that, prior to 2 this time and every time you've corrn'ibuted to a 3 judicial campaign, the money has gone 4 the campaign, but this time we?re using 3 A Are you talking about judicial? 6 Yesdidn?t think any of that. ljust 8 thought that that's how they wanted it. 9 And at that time, obviously Mr. Baker was aware 10 of the $5.2 million verdict that was - was in 11 place? 12 A Yes. 13 Did you have any discussion with Mr. Baker in 14 Russellville at that meeting about the Bull case? 15 A Not that I recall. 16 Did you have any discussion with Mr. Baker 17 about anything else, other than the speci?c amount 13 for Maggie and the speci?c amount for Wood? 19 A YES. 20 Okay. What -- what else? 21 A He discussed money for Arkansans for Lawsuit 22 Reform. 23 All right. 24 A And then he asked rue if I would consider a 25 donation to the UCA Foundation. 0023 1 All right. The money for Arkansas for lawsuit 2 Reform, that -- that's a 3 A Arkansans for Lawsuit Reform. 4 I?m sony. That?s a PAC, correct? 5 A l'rn not sure if it's a PAC or not. I think 6 it's a I don't know what it is. 8 as right. A But it's -- it's -- I refer to it as that, 9 10 All right. Did he discuss a speci?c amount? 11 A Yes. 12 Okay. What was the amount? 13 A 50,000. 14 All right. Did he discuss how he wanted the 15 moneyWhat was your response request? 19 A I would consider it. 20 You didn't agree or disagree with giving them 21 money during that meeting? 22 A Not then, no. 23 Later on, you made a decision? 24 A Yes. 25 What was your decision? amount ?new..me 2 that -- and we?re not quite to that fax yet, but on 3 the fax, I assume Mr. Baker listed out the PACs for 4 the Maggio money? 5 A Yes. Yes. 6 Did he list the Rhonda Wood campaign? 7 A Yes. 3 Okay. Did he list the money for Arkansans for 9 Lawsuit Reform? 10 A Yes. 11 And did he list UCA Foundation on that faxyes, but he put a 13 question mark -- 14 Okaythat. He didn?t put any 16 money. 1? All right. So on the PACs, do you recall how 13 many PACs there were and the size of the donation to 19 each 20 A Yes. 21 Okay. What was it? 22 A There were 10 PACs and 3,000 each. 23 Okay. And then for the Wood campaign? 24 A 50,000. 25 All right. And then Arkansans for Lawsuit 0082 Reform? 2 A 50,000. 3 And then you?ve already mentioned that with UCA 4 Foundation had a question mark. 5 A Yes. 6 And -- and you don't have that fax anymore? 7 A No. 3 Did you write all of those checks at the same 9 time? 10 A Yes. 11 Okay. 12 A I--I--Ithink--Isayyes. Ithinkso. 13 All right. And so I believe you wrote the 14 checks on July the 8th of 2013. Does that sound 15 right? 16 A Yes. All right. That was the same day there was a 18 hearing in Conway, right? 19 A I don't know, but I know that that?s the date 20 I've seen on the checks. 21 Sure. 22 Do you know if there was a hearing on a motion 23 to whether or not to remit the verdict that same 24 day when you Wrote these checks? 25 A -- I think that that's what I?ve read. 0083 1 Okay. 2 A Yeah. 3 You weren't aware of -- of when the hearing was 2:53:32 PMI 4 going on? 5 A No. 6 That was a pretty important hearing, wasn't it? 7 A Well, to me, yes. Yes. It was --I guess I 8 need to ask a question. 9 THE WITNESS: John, is this okay? 10 MR. EVERETT: Tell me what the 11 question is. 12 THE WITNESS: {Conversed with 13 counsel.) 14 MR. The question is -- I 15 think the question is, do you know that 16 there was a hearing held in Faulkner 1? County on July 8th? Is that your 18 question? 19 MR. BUCHANAN: Yes. 20 MR. EVERETT: And [gather you 21 meant, at the time you wrote the checks, 22 did you know the hearing was going on as 23 opposed to when 24 MR BUCHANAN: Okaycan cIarify. 0084 1 BY MR. BUCHANAN: 2 Did you know that there was a hearing that was 3 going to go on on July the 31h on the motion to -- 4 for a new trial or to remit the verdict? A No. 6 Okay. All right. And so on -- when you were 7 making out those checks, you were unaware that that 3 was the same day that the hearing ?as going on on 9 the motion for new trial or motion to remit the 10 verdict? 11 A Exactly. 12 All right. So you made out 10 checks for the 13 PACs for Maggio, right? Yes 14 A . 15 One check for Wood, right? 16 A No. You didn?t make that out that day? 13 A I made out several checks to Wood that day. 19 Okay. How many did you make out forWood? 20 A You know, I don't think that I gave her the 21 full ?fty, but I can't remember. Ithink it was 22 around forty-eight. So I?d make out made out 23 24 cheeks. 24 In what amounts? 25 A 2,000 apiece, 1 think. 0085 1 Were those going to be put in PACs, or were 2 they all made out to the Rhonda Wood Campaign? 3 A They were made out to Rhonda Wood. 4 Okay. Do you know, did -- did -- did Mr. Baker 5 ask you to make out 24 separate checks for 2,000 253132 8 checks? 9 A And I don't think that 100,000 probably -- into 10 someone's university's foundation --1 mean, people 11 give millions and millions to them, you lmow. 12 Okay. And Ithink you -- you answered a 13 question thatl didn't ask, but I want to go ahead 14 and ask it. You -- you had never given to UCA in 15 the past, true? 16 A No. 1? And have you given -- 18 MR EVERETT: It means yes= that is 19 true? 20 MR BUCHANAN: Oh, I'm sorry. 21 MR. EVERETT: The question was 22 poorly phrased. 23 A I've -- I?ve never -- I've never given to them 24 before because I ?as never asked. 25 BY MR. BUCHANAN: 0088 1 Okay. And have you given -- now, eventually, 2 UCA gave that money back, right? 3 A Yes, they did. 4 All right. Have you given to them since that 5 time? 6 A No. 7 All right. Can you name all of the schools 3 that you?ve given money to and the amounts that 9 you've given? 10 A No. 11 Okay. Can you just -- can you name one? 12 A Yes. 13 .Q Okay. What -- which one? A I can v? Arkansas Tech, I?ve -- I gave them a 15 million-dollar building behind the hospital at 16 St. Mary's -- 1? Okay. 18 A -- that they?ve nuned into a nursing school 19 and EMT school and therapy school or assistant. 20 They -- they do COTAs and stuffthere. All light. What else besides -- any other gi?s to Adcansas Tech? A Well, they run Ozark now, or they -- Ozark is an af?liate of Arkansas Tech. I gave them money for their re?ection pool and their walking trail 0089 1 around the campus. 2 Okay. How much did you give? 3 A I don't know how much -- I can?t remember how 4 much that was. I've given -- some were close to 5 probably a half a million to the Kipp School over in 6 Helena. 2 What is the Kipp School? 8 A It's a school for underprivileged children in 9 the Helena, Batesville -- they?ve got two of them, Kan-hwa 2:53:32 6 apiece? 2 A No, but he didn't put any kind of PAC or 8 anything beside it, so Ijust made them out that 9 way. 10 You -- these were from different companies= I ll assume? 12 A Yes. 33 Okay. So each -- you had 24 companies give 14 2,000 apiece, right? 15 A Yes. 16 All right. The Arkansans for Lawsuit Reform, 1? how many checks were made out? 13 A Two. 19 Okay. Was what was the reason for that? 20 A To have Arkansans for Lawsuit Reform to 21 continue operating. 22 No. I guess my question is, why notjust one 23 check instead of two? 24 A Because Ihesitated in writing the ?fty. I 25 wanted to only write twenty-five. And then I got to 0086 I thinking about it, and so I just Wrote another 2 twenty-?ve before it went out. 3 Okay. Were those from you personally? 4 A I think so. 5 All right. When you're and then the UCA 6 check, that was one check right? ?1 A Yes. 8 How did you arrive at $100,000? 9 A Because even though I don't have any relatives 10 or faculty members or anybody else at Arkansas Tech 1 1 or University of Arkansas or any other place I've 12 given money to, I have given substantial amounts of 13 assets and money to different organizations. And 14 what I had given them that, you know I get some 15 nurses out of Arkansas Tech and their school over 16 here at Ozark. I help them. So] thought, you know, Hit was not for UCA and their therapy 18 school -- this was just, in my owrt mind, thinking 19 that -- that, you know, I would not have a -- I -- I 20 would not be pro?table. That's all there thought, I need to make a substantial 22 contribution to this. 23 Okay. 24 A And the reason I had never made it before -- 25 well, that wasn't a question, but -- but that?s 0087 1 that's how I come up with 100,000. I thought it needed to be substantial. Okay. But there was no math to it like -- A Oh, no. -- these other -- these other cheeks -- A No, no. -- where we split it up into 24 different 5 2: 53:32 10 one in Batesville now, I think, and one in Helena. 1] Anywhere else that you can think of? 12 A I've given buildings in Hope, Arkansas to the 13 Rainbow Conlition that helps mentally retarded 14 children. lthink it was somewhere in the IS neighborhood of 500,000. 16 Anywhere else? A I gave another building in Hope to the 18 University of Arkansas. 19 Anywhere else? 20 A I?ve given money to the University of Arkansas 21 Fort Smith for their -- they call it the Arts 22 Program for after-school underprivileged children 23 that don?t have the money to be able to learn how to 24 play the piano or different things like that, the arts. 0090 1 How how much money did you give the 2 A I give them 25,000 a year. 3 Anything else that you can recall, any schools 4 -- that you give money or buildings or any kind 5 of property to? 6 A Ihave given lots of other property to -- 2 To schools? 8 A No -- well, most -- it's kind of a school, but 9 I?ve given a building away in Dardanelle, and they 10 use it for a battered women's shelter and for Bost 11 Schools and some other stuff. I've given a building 12 away in Eufaula, Oklahoma for the same thing. 1 13 think they even got a police -- a substation, a 14 police station in it. 15 Did you say Bost? Bost. Ult-huh. Best Schools in Fort Smith. What is that? It's a -- it's a deal for mentally challenged 21 adolescents, I think, or -- well, it's not 22 adolescents. 'Ihey -- I guess maybe adults. But 23 they -- they?re young adults, and they give them a 24 place to stay, and then they have them working at -- 25 at different jobs. 0093 I With -- was there a reason that you wanted to 2 be anonymous on the UCA donation? 3 A Well, I like to be anonymous on all of these 4 donations, but sometimes you just can't be. But the 5 reason is -- are you wanting to know why I want to 6 be anonymous? '1 Yes, on that particular donation. 8 A Just --Itrytobethe samewayonallof 9 them. 10 Okay. All of these other donations have been 11 anonymous donations? :broston 2:53:32 A Yeah. I tried -- 1 mean, you can?t keep them from doing what they want to do. 1hey named the building in Russellville Morton Hall, you know, but -- and the reason -- and hateto be -- ifyon -- when stu?? like that happens, everybody starts asking you for money. You know, and I already give a -- you know, quite a bit. But it's just, you know it would, you know, open up things to -- I'd just rather be anonymous. All right. We've talked abut the Rnssellville meeting. Leading up to the fax -- well, ?rst of all, when did you get the fax? When did you get the fax? A I don't know the date. I probably got the fax 0092 the very same day] mote the checks, though. I can 2 tell you that, probably. 3 Do you recall having any contact with Mr. Baker 4 leading upto the time that you wrote the checks? 5 A No. He could have called me and told me he was 6 sending the fax, for 3111 know, be aware it?s 7 coming. I'm not sure about that. It wouldn't surprise me if he had. 9 THE WITNESS: Can we take a break so 10 I can -- 11 MR. BUCHANAN: Sure. 12 MR. EVERETT: Wait a minute. When 13 you get to a good place. 14 MR. BUCHANAN: No, that?s ?ne. 15 THE Do you want to 16 change the tapes too? l've got about 10 1? minutes le?. 18 MR. BUCHANAN: No. That's good. 19 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 56 20 minutes past 11. This is the end of Tape 21 No. 2 to the deposition of Michael 22 Morton. We're now the record. 23 (WHEREUPON, after a break was taken, 24 the proceedings resumed as follows) 25 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is four 0093 1 minutes past 12. This is the start of 2 Tape No. 3 to the deposition of Michael 3 Morton. We're back on the record. 4 Counselor. 5 BY MR. BUCHANAN: 6 When you made out all of these checks to the 7 Wood campaign, were -- were they dated July the 8th? 3 A Yes. 9 10 11 12 13 mun un- anymuumi . M, Okay. And -- never mind. I want to go back to the Plea Agreement, which is Exhibit 2. And if you could turn to page 9. MR. EVERETT: Do you have an extra copy of that? 15 2: 53:32 A No. Okay. Do you know if this would be --I mean, we we settled on the fact that your meeting in Russellville was roughly a month before the checks were writtenyou recall having any telephone conversations with Mr. Baker after that meeting in Russellville? A We could have been -- he could have been talking to me about having -- we had another meeting at a later date, and we could have been talking 0096 1 about it. 2 Okay. But you don't recall if that?s what it 3 is? 4 A 1 don?t recall a speci?c conversation on 5 June 17th at 6:23 pm. 6 All right. The -- the lawyers in your case, in 1" the Bull case, ?led a motion for a new trial that 8 morning -- 9 A Which morning? 10 -- according to the documents. June the 12th. A Oh. You wouldn?t be calling him to talk about that, would you? A I didn't even know they had done that, so no,I wouldn?t. Now, I understand there was another meeting with Mr. Baker? A Yes. All right. Where was it at? A Sonny Williams Steakhouse. All right. And according to -- to your discovery responses, it looks like it was around June the 18th, so the day alter that phone call we talked about. A Yeah. 009? 1 Was the meeting around 2 A I -- if-- ifthey saidthat, I -- ifrny 3 lawyers said it, I'll I'll agree. 4 You'll go with it? 5 A Yes. 6 All right. 7 MR. EVERETT: Does it date -- give 8 that date speci?cally, or does it say 9 "about"? 10 MR. BUCHANAN: It does. think 11 it -- it says "around June 18th." 12 BY MR. BUCHANAN: 13 What was the purpose of this meeting? 14 A We had a long conversation with people about 15 tort reform. 16 Who was present? 1? A Jim Cooper, myself, David Norsworthy, Gilbert, nomination I 2: 53 :32 14 MR. BUCHANAN: Ido. 15 MS. RANDALL: (Hands document.) 16 MR. EVERETT: Thanks. 1? BY MR BUCHANAN: 18 And ifyou could look to June 2013. 19 A Page 9? 20 Of the Plea Agreement, Exhibit 2, right over here. 22 A Oh. Is this -- on the Plea Agreement, page 9? Yes, sir. 24 A Okay. 00 l4 I?llyou look to June it looks like 94 you called -- at 10:29, it says, "Individual A called Individual B, ?ve seconds." Do you see where I'm -- I'm talking about? A Yes. All right. And that would be you making a call to Mr. Baker, right? A Ifyou believe that Individual A is me. Okay. Do you deny Individual A is you? A I don't -- I don?t con?rm nor deny that. I -- I I don't like anything about this whole plea, so I --I guess my lawyer could advise me what to say on that, but, you know, itjust says Individual A. Okay. Well -- A I'd feel better if it said Michael Morton. Okay. Do you -- do you --I know you don't like it, but do you believe that you are Individual 9 A I believe this document was put together with me in mind as being Individual A. And do you believe that this document was put together with Mr. Baker in mind, with Mr. Baker being Individual A Yes. Okay. If you look at June 2013, you will see that a phone call, Individual A to Individual B, 0095 \DM?thwN just says, "Five seconds." So I assume -- do you --I assume that that basically goes to voice mail or no answer? A I guess. I don?t know. I mean, ?ve seconds is not a long timedown to 5:51 Individual A to Individual B. So if you believe that the parties are Individual A and would be you making another phone call to Mr. Baker, correct? A Yes. And then it looks like, at 6:23, Individual calls you, so that would he Baker calls you, and there's a four minutes and 39 second phone call. Do you know what that telephone call was about? 2:53:32 Linda Lee Flanagan, and John Goodson. Where did this -- was it in a private room A Just sitting out in the middle of Sonny Williams. All right. A They don?t have a private room,I don"t think. And -- okay. Did -- was there any mention 0093 2 can't-Jamilabout judicial candidates? A No. Okay. Was there any mention of the Martha Bull case? A No. What -- tell me what you recall about the discussion. A The main thing I -- John Goodson wanted to meet me, Gilbert told me, and he did. And we talked, and I think he had had, at the titne, Jeremy Hutchison doing some work for him and how Jeremy was afraid that was going to try to supportAnn Claremore enough to beat him. And that -- the most speci?c thing I remember is that John Goodson explained to us -- I'm talking about Cooper and myself and David - how he felt like that the strategy that we should take and implement to try to have some tort reform. And what was that strategy? A To have an initiated act and get signatures and put them before a vote of the people. And -- all right. Because, again, the session was over, correct? A Yes. Yes, it's yes. The -- was Hal Honeycutt there? A 1 don?t know Hal Honeycutt. Okay. A So who is that? MR. EVERETT: Who is he? MR. BUCHANAN: I don?t know. BY Do you know him? A No. Okay. A That?s why I?m asking you. I've just got -- I've just got a name down. That's it? A Okay. No, I don?t know a Hal Honeycutt. How long did that meeting last at Sony Williams? A Long enough to meet and take an order, chitchat, talk about things, and, you know, just eat. I'd say an hour to an hour and a half. Do you recall going to a fundraiser for Tim Griffin? 1 5 2:53 :32 20 A No. 21 Do you recall one of your nursing homes hosting 22 a fundraiser for Tim Grif?n? 23 A I certainly do. 24 Okay. Tell me what you recall. 25 A 'Ihatl called the nursing home up and said that 0100 1 Tim Gri?n wanted a long-term care purview to have 2 51 I think that?s the word -- to have a 3 fundraiser. And it ?as going to be there, so 4 someone would be in touch with them about getting 5 everything -- whatever they needed. 6 Okay. Were you there? '1 A No. 8 Did you contribute around that time of the 9 Grif?n campaign? 10 A I'm sur?eI did. I I Was -- okay. So they had the -- the fundraiser 12 at Salem Place? 13 A Yes. 14 But you didnAll right. De you know if Mr. Baker was there? A I was told he was there for a little bit. 18 Who told you he was there? 19 A My administrator. 20 Which one? 21 A Vicki Kirkerneier, the administrator of the 22 nursing home. 23 MR. EVERETT: Say the name again. 24 THE WITNESS: Vicki 25 Kirkemeier. 0101 1 BY MR. BUCHANAN: 2 And she told you that -- that Mr. Baker was at 3 the fundraiser there at Salem Place? 4 A Yes. 5 Did she tell you anybody else was there? 6 A Mr. Griffin and that he wanted to be out in the 7 courtyard playing with the chickens and ducks or 8 whatever we had out drere at the time. 9 Any -- anybody else who told you he was there? 10 A 1 there was not, no. 11 Do you recall any other meetings with Mr. Baker 12 prior to you making out the checks? 13 A No. 14 Do you recall any other telephone calls with 15 Mr. Baker prior to making out the checks? 16 A No. 1? If you?ll trim to page on the Plea Agreement. 18 If you look at the -- at the ?rst paragraph. It 19 says that, basically, Maggie announces -- formally 20 announces his candidacy on June the 27th of -- of 21 2013 for an election to be held May the 201k of 15 2:53:32 24 that. 25 BY MR. BUCHANAN: 0104 1 Do you have any information as to why there 2 would be communication where Baker would tell 3 Maggie, Win, lose, or draw, you have Individual A?s 4 support on the motion new trial or remittitur? 5 A I -- don"t know why -- are you asking me why 6 he would Yes. 8 A He would -- 9 Would say that in any ?rshion; text, call, 10 whatever. I 1 A The only explanation that I would think is that 12 I had never indicated anythingl ever wanted, so 13 I never did demand any quid pro que or anything 14 about anything and -- to Gilbert or anybody else. 15 So I guess Gilben felt like that he had my support 16 irregandless -- or regardless of whatever happened 17 because he never talked to me about it. 18 You're not saying that you didn't want 19 Judge Maggioto reduce the verdict, are you? 20 A Do what? 21 I mean, you wanted Judge Maggie to reduce the 22 verdict, didn't you? 23 A I never thought about it. 24 You never thought about it? 25 A Huh-uh. 0105 1 So win, lose, or draw, it was all okay with you? A My attorneys informed me that that was one of the options that you're talking about, the remittitur'. Yes. A But that it very seldom happened in lower case or the lower -- whatever. So that was - I just felt like that was not -- I didn't think about it. 10 Okay. So when -- at the time that the hearing 11 was going on and -- and meanwhile, this 12 communication -- well, we'll just move on. 13 We pick back up here at where en the 14 sentence that says, "At another time.? 15 A Yes. 16 let me know when you -- l? A Yes. A 13 Okay. 19 Yes. 20 "At another time, Individual reminded Maggie 21 that he would receive campaign ?nancial support if 22 he made the, quote, tough calls, unquote, while on 23 the bench. Maggie understood that Individual was advising Maggie that, in exchange for Maggie's 25 ruling in favor of Individual A and Company A, 4; 2:53:32 22 2014. 23 "On or about June 29, 2013, at approximately 24 8:15 Individual sent Maggie a text message 25 stating, in part, 'Well, your ?rst 50K is on the 02 01 1 way.? Maggie understood that this 50K included 2 ?nancial support from Individual 3 Do you know why Mr. Baker w0uld be sending 4 Mr. Maggio a text saying, Your ?rst 50K is on the 5 way, on June 29th? 6 A No. 7 Do you have any explanation for why Mr. Baker 8 would send Mr. Maggie that kind of a text at -- on 9 June 29th? 10 A No. 11 Do you have any explanation as to why 12 Judge Maggie understood that this 50,000 included 13 ?nancial support ?'om you? 14 A No. 15 Okay. And on -- ifyeu'll rum -- excuse me. 16 We'll -- we'll stay on the same page, the -- the middle paragraph, so just below where we were 13 talking about, page of the Plea Agreement. 19 "Between on or about June 29, 2013, andi'or about 20 July ll" -- or excuse me, "July 8, 2013, 21 Individual communicated to Maggie stating, in 22 essence, 'Win, lose, or draw, you have Individual 23 A's support,? referring to Maggie's decision on the 24 motion for remittitur -- for new trial or 25 remittitur. Maggie understood that the purpose of 0103 this message was not to reassure Maggio that he had 2 Individual A's support regardless of any decision on 3 the remito'tur', but rather Individual was 4 reminding Maggie to make a favorable ruling to 5 Individual A and Company A because of Individual A?s 6 7 3 ?nancial support of Maggie?s campagne." Do you know why -- or do you have any explanation for why Gilbert Baker would send a text 9 saying, Win, lose, or draw, you have Individual A's 10 support? 11 MR EVERETT: Object to the form of 12 the question. 13 MR WATTS: Join in the objection. 14 MR. EVERETT: There is nothing in 15 the language you read that says it?s a 16 text. MR. BUCHANAN: Okay. 13 MR. EVERETT: I don't think. 19 MR. BUCHANAN: I'm sorry. 20 MR. EVERETT: Unless you have some 21 information we don?t have. 22 MR. BUCHANAN: No. No. I'm sorry. 3 And -- and thank -- thanks for clarifying 5 2: 53:32 0106 1 Individual A would provide campaign donations to 2 3 Do you have any information as to why Mr. Baker 4 would somehow communicate to Maggie that he would 5 receive this campaign money if he made the tough 6 calls while on the bench? A No. 8 When we move to page of the Plea Agreement 9 towards the bottom of the page where it says, 10 "Maggie stipulates that the United States w0uld 11 show" -- the last paragraph, the start of the last 12 paragraph. At least this -- this exhibit says. 13 "Maggio stipulates that the United States would show 14 that on or about July 8, 2013, Individual A wrote 15 $3,000 checks to eight PACs for a total efS24,000 16 intending that the money would go to Maggio's I?l' campaign." 18 We know that's not necessarily true, right? 19 A Perhaps, like the rest of the document, it 20 could not necessarily be true. 21 In fact, you wrote 10 checks, right? 22 A Yes, I did. 23 And you intended for those 10 checks to go to 24 Maggie, the money to go to Maggie? 25 A That's what hold the FBI. 010? I And that's what you're telling us, right? 2 A Yes. 3 And so the total would be 30,000. "Maggie further stipulates that the United States would show that Individual used seven of these checks to fund PACs that contributed to Maggie's campaign." Do you know how many of the PACs of the -- the 111 checks, how many ended up or how much money ended 10 up in the Magic campaign? 11 A Mr. Buchanan, I know this for certain. When 12 you write a check to a PAC, you lose all control. 13 And] knew that when I wrote these checks. But 14 whatever my intentions were or anything else, I know 15 that putting money into a PAC, I didn?t know where 16 it was going or what they would do with it. 1? My question to you was not that. IS A You asked me if I knew. 19 My question to you is, do you knew how much 20 went to the Maggie campaign? 21 A Not any more than what has been written in the 22 newspaper. 23 Okay. All right. When did you tell the FBI 24 that you wrote 10 checks for $3,000? 25 A I don't know if I told them that. 0103 I When did you meet with the Doe-Jamb- 2:533 2 2 A A long time ago. 4 MR. EVERETT: Longer than that. 3 Well, I mean, do you recall? 5 A Last summer, I guess maybe. 4 A I recall them asking me about the PAC checks. 6 BY MR. BUCHANAN: 5 Okay. 7 Okay. Do you -- 6 A And Idon?t know if they questioned me about 8 THE WITNESS: July or August, you 7 the number or anything else. I just know thatl had 9 think? 3 written checks to PACS, and I knew what I intended 10 MR. EVERETT: I'll -- I'll let you 9 for them to do. know if it's important. 10 Okay. 12 A If it's --1 can get an exact date if you need 11 A I told them that. 13 one somehow. 12 All right. Was there anything that you 14 BY MR. BUCHANAN: 13 wouldn?t answer to the 15 All right. What were they after, ifyou knowThey asked about checks. They were con?rming 15 Okay. You answered all of their questions? stu?'thatl guess they already knew, but mainly, 16 A Oh, yes. 18 according to my attomey, they talked to him and -- All right And do you remember what month it 19 MR. EVERETT: Don?t tell him whatl 18 was when you met with the 20 told you. 19 A I don't know the exact month. 21 THE WITNESS: Okay. 20 THE WITNESSMR. BUCHANAN: 2] rememberdid you have a - do 22 MR. EVERETT: Here's the source of 24 you remember the names of the agents that you 23 some of the wnfusion. There were 25 visited with? 24 actually two FBI involvement; once they 01 ll 25 came to his of?ce. I'm not sure if he 1 A No. I didn?t visit with them. 0109 2 Okay. You did not visit with them? I talked to them or not. 3 A My attorney did. THE WITNESS: I didn?t thattime. 4 All right. Do you -- do you know what 3 MR EVERETT: [talked with them. 5 documents they were after? 4 And then he goes to the United States 6 A They wanted to look at PAC checks. 5 Attorney?s Of?ce, and he's probably ?1 Anything else that you recall? 6 he's probably not connecting that that's 8 A No. with the FBI. Rather, he thinks he's 9 All right. And as I understand, and your 3 talking -- the FBI was there. But -- but It} attorney has helped me with this, there was a 9 he might be heating you say FBI an -- 11 meeting, it sounds like in Little Rock, where you 10 THE WITNESS: Well, see, I can?t 12 went to the United States Attomey?s Of?ce. 11 even -- 13 A Yes. 12 MR EVERETT: Wait. Wait a minute. 14 And -- and -- and you visited with some folks 13 And not counting US Attorneys. 15 there? 14 THE WITNESS: Okay. 16 A Yes. 15 MR. EVERETT: So and -- andl 1? Do you recall who you visited with? 16 don?t know when that was, but if it's 13 A I don?t remember the exact names. 1? important to youOkay. Was one of them Julie Peters? 13 I?ll let you know. 20 A Yes. 5 19 MR. BUCHANAN: Okay. 21 Was Ward Seal there? 21} BY MR. BUCHANAN: 22 A I don?t. know. 21 The -- the the time when the agent showed up 23 All right. And during this meeting, this is 22 at your of?ce 24 when you say you met with the FBI, this meeting with 23 A Yes. 23 Julie Peters. Was anybody else present besides 24 -- were you there? [1112 25 A Yes. 1 Julie Peters? 0110 2 A Three other people. 1 Okay. When was that? 3 Okay. On their side? 2 A I don?t rememberthe exact date. I'd Say six 4 A Yes. 3 months or -- 5 And I assume Mr. Everett was with you? mazuiqnu. -. "non-n 6 A Yes. 8 Okay. Were there questions that they?ve asked 9 A No. 8 you thatl have asked you about? 10 Were you asked to testify before the grand 9 MR. EVERETT: Say the question 11 jury? 10 again. 12 A No. 11 MR BUCHANAN: Sure. 13 Have you been asked to testify at all? 12 BY MR BUCHANAN: 14 A No. 13 Were there were there -- were there topics 15 Okay, Have you received a target letter from 14 that they asked you thatI haven?t asked you about? 16 the US Attomey's Of?ce? 15 MR. EVERETT: That you have not 1? A No. 16 asked him about? 18 Ifyou go to -- back to the Plea Agreement, 1? MR. BUCHANAN: Yes. 19 there's a call that is -- 18 A I don't. -- I don?t think so. 20 A ?that page? 19 BY MR. BUCHANAN: 21 Page 9. 20 Okay. Were there any people or individuals 22 A Okay. 21 that they asked you about that we haven?t discussed 23 There's a -- it looks like there's a call -- or 22 yet? 24 actually, there are -- there are some calls to -- 23 A No. 25 from to Maggie, and then there is a call from what 24 Do you recall about how long the meeting 0115 25 lasted? 1 appearsto be you to what appears to be appears 0113 2 to be Mr. Baker to you at 4:05. 1 A A couple ofhours. 3 A Uh?huh. 2 Was Mr. Baker there that day, or do you know? 4 Do you see where I'm talking about? 3 A No. He wasn?t with me. Could have been 5 A Yes. 4 somewhere else. Idon?t know. 5 I assume you have copies of these checks or you 6 could get copies of these checks that you wrote on 7 July the 8th. I know you?ve provided some of?iem 8 to us. So, Imean, for example, the Wood checks, I 9 mean, I assume you could get copies of those if you 10 needed to? II A Yes. 12 All right. Were you aware on July the 81h that Okay. And it's eight minutes and -- basically, 8 1:12 minutes long. Do you recall what that call 3 was about? 9 A No. 111 Okay. At that point, Mr. Baker should have 11 received all of those checks, right? 12 A If I shipped them FedEx, he would have had them, I guess. I don?t 14 know. It could have set around for a while. 13 none of these PACs had registered yet? 15 Surejust don?t know. I am unsure of that. 15 Have you had an opporutnity to look at the All right. 16 documents to see the donors to these PACs, who 1? donated to these 18 A No. 19 Okay. Is there --I mean, can you explain why 20 you and your companies are the only donorsto those 21 PACs in July of2013? 13 A He certainly could have. 19 I'll mark as Exhibit 4 a document that you brought with you here today. 21 A Uh-huh. 22 And this is a document, I believe, that you 23 said that -- that you provided to either the FBI Attorney?s Of?ce, one. 23 Can you explain why, if Gilbert Baker is trying 25 (WI-IEREUPON, Exhibit 4 was marked for 24 to raise money in July of 2013, why he would only 0116 25 approach you? identi?cation and attached hereto.) [1114 One or the other, yes. 1 A No. All right. 2 Do you have any information that Mr. Baker 3 solicited on behalf of the Maggie or Wood campaigns 4 to anybody else besides you or your companies? 5 A No, I do not know who all he solicited. 6 Can you explain why -- with one exception. why you and your companies are the only donors to these A I don't know which, And is this the -- the FedEx, I guess, receipt for -- for the -- the package thathad the checks in it? A Yes. 9 All right. And the sender was Pat Cherry. Is communan? 2:53:32 25332 10 that your secretary? 12 A That?s what I was used to from Gilbert. 11 A Yes. 13 Right. 12 And it's ?'om Central Arkansas Nursing Centers 14 A So he -- you know, he got that money that day, 13 to Mr. Baker a1 1? Cooper Lane in Conway, Arkansas; 15 and he could start on a whole new batch. 14 is that right? 16 But you don't know what he was talking about? 15 A Yesyou look at how the -- what the service 18 Okay. type was, it says, ?FedEx standard overnight.? Do 19 A I?m just telling you what my -- the norm was. 18 you know what that means? 20 And you ?gured -- you do things by the norm, 19 A They?re supposed to get it the next day. 20 Okay. Andi -- it appears that there is a 21 time that it was delivered1 and it looks like it was 22 delivered somewhere -- 10:31. Don?t know if that's 23 am. or pm, but 10:31 the next day? 21 right? 22 A Well, it's -- it seems like that people that 23 raise money for politicians -- 24 Well -- 25 A -- they -- they -- it' -- that's their 24 A Uh?hult. Where -- 0119 25 Is that fair to say? 1 standard operation. or it 2 Sure. I A Is it on thereyou assume that yo -- 2 It's kind of the Ieft~hand side overtowards 4 that you were talking to Gilbert because he likes 3 the bottom. 5 talking about candidates because that was the norm 4 A Okay. Yes. 6 for him, right? 5 Okay. All right. 6 A And would assume that's morning. 7 Yeah. Soat -- at least "just based on 8 looking at -- at Exhibit 4 to your deposition, it 9 appears that the package arrived sometime around 10 10:31 in the morning on July the 9th, correct? '1 A Yes. 8 Okay. But what wasn't norm was for you to put 9 money for judicial candidates in PACs of which 10 you're the only donor that are sent on the same day 11 as a hearing to reduce a $5 million verdict. That's 12 not the norm, is it? 11 A Yes. 13 A I had never done that before. 12 All right. And it looks like there are a few 14 All rightcoincidence -- is 13 calls here. It looks like Mr. Baker called Maggio 15 it just a coincidence to you that you're sending 14 at 3:30 and then at 3:31, and then he called you at 16 these checks to the Maggio campaign on the same day 15 4:05. Is this - does this -- does this FedEx 1? wh he's making a decision or is hearing arguments 16 receipt help refresh your recollection at all as to 18 about a decision on whether to reduce or remit a 1? whether or not y'all were talking about the checks l9 $5.2 million verdict? 18 or the Maggio campaign or anything like that? 20 A Is that a question? 19 A Well, we never talked about any campaign -- 21 Yeahcoincidence to you? 20 Okay. 22 A That's exactly what it was. 21 A about anybody. But Idon?t know what the 23 Okayleast see how some i 22 phone call -- he could have been calling me up 24 people might think that the check to UCA was 1 23 thanking me for sending it so quick, for all I know, 25 Gilbert's payoff for doing this -- for being the i 24 but, you know, I -- I don?t know. I don?t have any 0120 25 speci?c conversation that I remember that day. intermediary to -- between you and Maggio? 0118 2 A No, but I guess, if that's what a person wants 1 Okay. And now, this phone call appears to be 2 longer than the other phone calls on here, right? 3 A Yes. Yes. 4 And you don?t know why? 5 A No. The only thing thatl would suspect 6 Uhvhuh. 7 A -- is that -- Gilbert liked talking to me about 3 candidates that was mnning for of?ce and getting 10 the letter from Conrtway -- 9 money, so he could have been starting on a whole new 11 Right. 10 bunch, for all 1 know. That's what Gilbert docs. 12 A -- thanking me for the donation. I don?t know 1 11 Yeah. 13 if I got a letter. He just sent the check back. to perceive that to be, they -- they don?t have to believe anything] say. All right. So do you recall receiving the - a letter from -- from Tom Courtway -- or not Tom Courrway -- a letter from UCA Foundation returning i the money to you? i 9 A Well, I remember the ?rst of -- the ?rst -- 2:53:32 2:53:32 14 I'm going to mark a couple of exhibits and ask 16 It's not one of these. 15 you about them. We'll mark as Exhibit 5 a check 1? MR. EVERETT: Are these exhibits? 16 from Mr. Morton to the UCA Foundation. Does that at 13 MR. BUCHANAN: They are. They're 1? least appear to be a copy of the check that you sent 19 Exhibit 6. 18 Mr. Baker? 20 MR EVERETT: Oh, one of them is 19 (WHEREUPON, Exhibit 5 ?m marked for 21 probably marked. 20 identi?cation and attached hereto.) 22 MR. BUCHANAN: I don't think it is, 21 A Yes. 23 22 All right. And I'll mark as Exhibit 6 a copy 24 MR. EVERETTsome checks. You can ?ip through them, but 1 25 MR. BUCHANAN: I think so. Ithink 24 think there are eight of them. Do those all at 0123 25 least appear to be checks -- or copies of checks 1 .. 0121 2 MR. EVERETT: I bet it is. 1 that you sentto Mr. Baker?s house? 3 THE WITNESS: Well, this check here 2 (WHEREUPON, Exhibit 6 was marked for 4 is -- that was marked. 3 identi?cation and attached hereto.) 5 MR. EVERETT: Here we go. This is 4 A Yes. 6 marked 6. 5 All right. And in particularly, they're all 1' THE WITNESS: Okay. 6 for $3,000 and made out to different PACs, correct? 3 MR EVERETT: Here we go. Thank ?1 A Yes. 9 you. 8 And it appears that each one of them was from a 10 THE WITNESS: Have you got a 9 different company that you own, right? 11 paperclip? 10 A Yes, or me personally. I'll have to see how 12 MR. BUCHANAN: I do. 11 many personal checks there are. 13 BY MR. BUCHANAN: 12 MR EVERETT: Ywh. 14 And all of these checks that we?v -- that 13 THE WITNESS: That one is personal, 15 we?ve talked about are dated on that July the 8th 14 isn?t it? 16 date, correct? 15 BY MR. BUCHANAN: l? A Yes. 16 But again, they're either from you or a company 18 MR. WATTS: Tom, I'm sorry. Were that you own, correct? 19 those the six checks that you -- 18 A Yes. 20 MR. BUCHANAN: Those were eight 19 And I drink you?ve told us here today that, in 21 checks. 20 addition to these eight, there are two others out 22 MR. WATTS: Okay. Canl see those? 2] there? 23 BY MR BUCHANAN: 22 A Yes. 24 I'm going to mark as Exhibit 7 a document from 23 And they are also made out to 25 -- an internal memo From UCA -- or with regard to 24 A Yes. 0124 25 MR. EVERETT: Give me just a second. 1 the UCA Foundation and see if I can ask you some 0122 2 questions about it. The -- it says, "In July 2013, 1 Did you get these from our sniff? 3 Gilbert Baker brought me a $100,000 check to the 2 MR. BUCHANAN: I got them from 4 Awdemic Facilities Fund. Mr. Baker said that the 3 Richard because I think y'all turned over 5 donor wished this gift to be anonymous." 4 like six. Those were attached to Chris 6 Did you -- is that what you told Mr. Baker? 5 Stewart's affidavit. 7 Exhibit 7 was marked for 6 MR EVERETT: Chris Stewart's 8 identi?cation and attached hereto.) 7 af?davit in connection with what? 9 A Yes. 8 MR. BUCHANAN: He provided an 10 And then the UCA Foundation properly reoeipted 9 af?davit -- II this gi? on July the 15th of 2013, correct? And 10 MR. EVERETT: To the ethics people? 12 then let's go to the second page. "After discussing 11 MR. BUCHANAN: -- to the ethics 13 the unfolding situation with Gary Aday and LaVaughn 12 people -- maybe I got them and not 14 Morton, I am instructing you to issue a check to 13 Richard. 15 return this gift to the anonymous donor. 1 will 14 MR WATTS: I was going to say 1 16 provide a short cover letter for you to include. 15 think you got them from thorn. 11' Please remind our staff that this gift was anonymous 2:53:32 PMI 2:53:32 ill 25 and we are not to discuss it outside of work.? Is that at least what this Exhibit 7 says? A That's what this document says, yes. Okay. And it's dated March the 24th of 2014; is that right? A Yes. Okay. And the -- the newspapers broke this story in March of 21114. Does that at least scund 25 right to you? A I thought it was earlier, but -- you know, it went on and on. But that's probably - that?s probably about right. Sure. And so would -- this memo would be -- would he -- it looks like late March, I'd say. Do you at least agree with that? A Yes. I'll mark as Exhibit 8 the -- a leuerto you from the UCA Foundation enclosing a check. Does this at least appear to be a letter that's addressed to you? WWON, Exhibit 8 was marked for identi?cation and attached hereto.) A Yes. And -- and, again, it's dated March the 24th of 2014? A Yes. And it closes a $100,000 check from the UCA Foundation to you; is that true? A Yes. I notice in the letter it says, "While we are -- we appreciate such private support, given recent developments, we feel it is in everyone's best interest to return this 0126 you know what recent developments this lady is talking about? A No. No. It says. "Since this was a tax-deductible gift in 2013, we recommend contacting your tax advisor on how best to handle the return of this gift." Did -- did you do that, contact your tax folks? A I'm sure that -- I have a CFO that is responsible far that. And all of these gi?s, are they all tax-deductible? A Yes. Yes. MR. EVERETT: What gifts are you talking about, to the institutions? BY MR. BUCHANAN: Well, all the gi?s that you've been tall-dug about to these institutions? A Yes. Between the night of the verdict and when 2:53:32 22 23 24 25 for the healthcare association? A She doesn't now. Has she in the past? A Yes. 0129 013 All right. Did you have any conversations with her about the amount of the verdict or the remittitur issue? A I don't think so. Irnight have had a discussion about the case a?er the -- it was announced. Shortly after" or all of this was going on, she was transitioning over to work in a campaign for a candidate for Congress. Whose -- was that Mr. Grif?n's campaign? A No, Iarnes Lee Witt. But you don't recall any particular discussions with her? A No. No. All right. Do you have you - did you have any particular discussions with Judge Wood? A No. Okay. You've talked about you -- I think you've mentioned to us that you visited about the verdict with -- with Jim Cooper, so I?ll scratch that off my list. Do you -- did you know Linda Lee Flanagan before you ran into her and Mr. Baker at the Brave New Restaurant? A No. Have you talked to her since the Brave New Restaurant? 0 A At Sonny Williams. She was atthar deal. I 2 don't know who: might have said hello, you 3 lorow, but she was there. 4 Since the Sony Williams meeting, have you 5 talked to her? 6 A No. 7 Do you and Mr. Baker -- do you all still 8 communicate? 9 A My attomey told Okay. Well, regardless of whether he told you not to, do you all A I always do what my attorney says. Has anybody lived with you from, say, since the night of the verdict until the present? A No. And you're not married, light? A I'm not. Okay. MK BUCHANAN: 1 think this is probably a good -- good time to change the tape. The time is 58 minutes past 12. This is the end of Tape 2:53:32 20 Maggio entered the order remitting the verdict, can you think of anybody that you've had contact with 22 about the -- Maggie running for Court of Appeals, the verdict, or the remittitur that we haven?t 24 already discussedMr. Buchanan, I can?t even begin to tell you 2? probably how many people wanted to talkto me about this at different times. And, you And I appreciate that. Any speci?c people in mind that you talked about that -- that -- I?m just worried that maybe I'm leaving somebody out. A I -- I understand. It would be people that you know, and I've tried to explain to you. You know, people in the industry, they're going to want to talk about it, you lcnow, especially -- especially after -- given the circumstances and -- and what you classi?ed 3 while ago as coincidences. There's been a lot of talk. But when you're talking about between the time -- say that again. Between the time of what? Well, between the time of the verdict -- A Yeah. And then -- -- and the time it was it was - I?m not talking until now. A Yeah. I'm saying from the the of the verdict until the time the order was entered. A Yeah. Have you -- did you talk to anybody else about the Maggio campaign, the verdict. or the reminitnr that we haven't already talked about? WITNESS: Been an hour? THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We've got 10 minutes felt. BY MR. BUCHANAN: Do you know Ruth Whitney? A Yes. Have you ever visited with her about this situation, meaning this case? A I don't know that I ever visited with her alter the verdict, but she was part of the legal THE WITNESS: Did she work for y'all or for Mitchell Williams? MS. RANDALL: I don't remember. BY MEL BUCHANAN: Well, anyway, Ruth Whitney was there as a jury consultant, right? A Yes. Okay. And -- A Hired by somebody. Yes. Have -- do you know if she does any work 2:53:the deposition of Michael Morton. We're now the record. after a break was taken, the proceedings resumed as follows] (Gilbert Baker is no longer present.) THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 10 minutes past one. This is the start of Tape No. 4 to the deposition of Michael Morton. We're back on the record. Counselor. BY MR BUCHANAN: Mr. Morton, the PAC checks that we marked as Exhibit 6, I think there were eight of them, how do you decide which company gives what? A 'lhere?s no formula or anything. It's just -- prior to this new law, you can't give any from corporations like that, but I would just -- the ones that had money in them, I would use those, you know. But there's no method to that? A No, no, no. There's no method, right. We'll mark as Exhibit 9, an article. Is what I have marked as Exhibit 9, does that -- at least to be an article from the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette? (WI-IEREUPON, Exhibit 9 was marked for identi?cation and attached hereto.) And it appears that -- what's the date -- well, it appears -- it?s kind of small, but it looks like it's March 14th -- A Yes. -- 2014. And I want to focus on the bottom few paragraphs of the -- the ?rst page to start off with. And the ?rst paragraph is where it says, "Michael Morton, the nursing home owner, linked to all of the It looks like itokay. The last sentence in that paragraph says, "Morton called the timing coincidental, but acknowledged a problem with the appearance of the transactions." Did you tell a newspaper reporter that -- that -- that in your words, that the timing of -- of this was all coincidental? A Yes. Was that Ms. Shelton from the Democrat-Gazette? A Yes. You you -- do you still acknowledge a problem with the appearance of these transactions? A Oh, yes. And when you move to the second paragraph, you 2:53:32 0133 1 say, have broken no law. If 1 had done that, 2 that would be against the law. I would never do it. 3 I was asked by people that were handling Judge 4 Maggio?s race if I would support him for the appeals court judge, and I said yes because I believe 6 Arkansas needs a more conservative bench.? 7 And did you, in fact, tell Ms. Shelton that? 8 A Yes. 9 All right. And do you still believe that, if 10 you were trying to in?uence the judge, that it 11 would be against the law? 12 A Yes. 13 Sure. And then itlooks like, when you get 14 down to the next paragraph, ?Morton said he was 15 asked for his support either right before or right 16 after or during the trial in the lawsuit that led to 1? the big jury judgment in Maggie?s Faulkner County 18 courtroom in May 2013.? 19 At least in -- iu -- in 2014, March '14, you 20 couldn't remember when you were asked for any of the 21 support? 22 A When she called me about this -- 23 Okay. 24 A -- you know, I didn't have -- 25 You didn't 0134 1 A -- have things in ?ont ofnre. lknew that it 2 was in the proximity. 3 You didn't recall that it was actually the day 4 of the verdict? 5 A Not at the time, you lcnow. 6 And the next sentence says, "But Morton said he 1' wasn?t sure if the request came at the trial time or 8 in July when the follow-up actions led to the 9 reduction of the award in that case.? 10 So at least at thattirne, it could have been in 11 May, it could have been in July: you just didn?t 12 recall? 13 A Yes. 14 But you recall now, right? 15 A Yes. 16 Ifyouturn the page tothe very ?rst 1? paragraph, it says, "Asked about the appearance of 18 the actions, Morton said,? and I quote, "?Looking 19 back at it. now, with all of the uproar about it, 20 obviously the appearance is absolutely horrible.? 21 Do you still believe that the appearance is 22 absolutely hon'ible? 23 A Yes. 24 Skip to the third paragraph on that page. 25 "Asked why his donations to Maggio weren't made 0135 him or his busineSSes as he has done 5 2:53:32 Flanagan. did not tell her to do that or instruct her to do that,? Baker said Wednesday. He said he had no discussions with Flanagan or Morton about giving to Maggio's campaign." Is that -- is that true? A I cannot -- I cannot speak as to what Gilbert 10 Baker says -- 11 Okay. 12 A -- you know. 13 Well, did -- he's telling -- at least the paper 14 is attributing him as saying that -- that he had no 15 discussions with Hanagan or Morgan Morton about 16 giving to Maggio's campaign. You know that's not 1? true, don?t you? 18 A Right. He -- I guess he didn't want this 19 reporter to keep asking him questions. I don?t moon-Immin- 20 lmow. 21 Sure. 22 A I can?t speak for him. 23 Sure. You don?t know why he -- 24 A I know who I talked to. 25 All right. 0133 A And I know what the discussion was. 2 Sure. A If I would support Maggie. And then you know A But the mentioning of -- of all ofthis other 3 4 5 6 you've talked about was not mentioned that day. Well, here's -- here's what you do know is 8 that you had an in?person meeting with Gilbert Baker 9 where Gilbert Baker asked for speci?c candidam 10 about speci?c amounts, true? 11 A Not this day, not here. 12 Well, no, it had already been this is a year 13 later, right? 14 A Ch. 15 MR. WATTS: have to object to the 16 form of that question. MR EVERETT: And I join that 13 objection. 19 MR. BUCHANAN: All right. That's 20 ?ne. 21 BY MR. BUCHANAN: 22 Mr. Morton? 23 A Yes. 24 Your meeting with Gilbert Baker was -- was in 25 2013, was it not? 0139 A Yes. The original one, the very ?rst being 2 asked whether I would support Maggie? 3 That was in 2013, right? 4 A Yes. Yes. 5 May 16,2013? 2:53 :32 with otherjudicial candidates, Morton said, The people who were running his campaign wanted me to put them in PACs. I don't know why, and I didn't Are those people Mr. Baker and -- is that person Mr. Baker? A Yes. Is there anybody else who wanted you one that I talked to. There could have been 12 someone that Mr. Baker was consulting with or 13 talking to. I don't lorow. 14 Right. But -- but at learn the people that you 15 had -- the only person you had conversation with 16 about putting money in was Gilbert Baker, 1? correct? 13 A Yes. Yes. 19 All right. We'll mark as Exhibit 10 another 20 article. The -- does what I've marked as Exhibit 10 21 at least to be -- appear to be another article ??Oru 22 the Democrat-Gazette? 3 (WHEREUPON, Exhibit 10 was marked 24 for identi?cation and attached hereto.) 25 A Yes 0136 1 Okay. And -- and it appears that this one is 2 March the 201b, so about six days -- or six days 3 after the last article, true? 4 A Yes. 5 And ifyou look at the very ?rst paragraph, it 6 says, "Nursing home tycoon, Michael Morton, said a 7 woman who worked with former State Senator Gilbert 3 Baker was the one who asked him last year to support 9 Circuit Judge Mike Maggie since-halted campaign for 10 the Arkansas Court of Appeals while Maggio, at the 11 time, was presiding over a lawsuit against one of 12 Morton's nursing homes." 13 Is -- is there -- did you tell her that a woman 14 who worked fer -- who worked with Senator -- or 15 former Senator Baker had asked you to support Judge 16 Maggie? l? A Yes. 18 All right. Is there a reason -- did you also 19 tell her that it wasn?t just a woman, but it was, in 20 fact, Gilbert Baker that was there? 21 A i told her that I think that sometime Baker was 22 there, but -- I think that she was the one that 23 said, "Hey, Michael," whenl was walking by, and 24 went over. 25 All right. And when you go down to the fourth 0137 1 paragraph, and it's just one sentence -- well, the 2 third and then the fourth, "Baker said he had not 3 known about the conversation between Morton and 2:53 :32 6 A Yes. Yes. 7 Your next meeting with Mr. Baker was in 8 Russellville, right? 9 A Yes. 10 That was in June of 2013, right? 11 A Yes. 12 Where he -- Mr. Baker speci?cally asked you 13 about speci?c amounts for Judge Wood and Judge 14 Maggio? 15 A YES. 16 True? l?r' A Yes. 18 This article is March 2014, so almost a year 19 later? 20 A Yes. 21 So if Gilbert Baker told the paper that he had 22 no discussions with Flanagan or Morton about giving 23 to Maggio's campaign, that is false, true? 24 MR. WATTS: Objection to form. 25 MR. EVERETT: Object to the form of 0140 the question. 2 BY MR. BUCHANAN: 3 You can answer. 4 A I know that he had asked me about them. I thought this article was about that day at the Brave 6 New Restaurant, but he had asked me about -- by this 2' date, March 201.11, 2014. 3 Okay. Well, let's move on to the paragraph 9 towards the bottom that says, "Baker said he was 10 sure that Flanagan." And when you see it, just let 1 1 me know. 12 A Yes,l see it. I'm sorry. 13 Okay. "Baker said he was sure that Flanagan lit would have been very clear in distinguishing between 15 seeking support and seeking campaign ?ruds because 16 judicial candidates in Arkansas are prohibited From 1? seeking or accepting such money until 180 days 18 before an election. The judicial elections are May 19 the 20m.? 20 At least with respect to what your impression 21 was at Brave New Restaurant, your impression was, 22 they were a?er more than your vote; they were alter 23 your money, right? 24 A Well, I just assumed that, but they didn?t -- 2:1 at Brave New, on the ?rst meeting -- 0141 1 Uh-huh. 2 A -- no one asked for money; they just asked for 3 support, would e- could they count on my suppon. it Right. 5 If you turn the page, the second paragraph 6 towards the top is a quote from you, I believe, that says, "People are making these wild accusations." cs'Con?mtjESrDOS 5 2:53:32 8 Do you see that? 9 A Yes. 10 Okay. It says, "People are melting these wild I I accusations. I didn?t try to bribe a judge.? 12 Did you tell that reporter that? 13 A Yes. 14 And that's still your position today? 15 A That's the exact truth. 16 And would -- can we agree that -- that, at 17 least with regard to the timing, you could see why 13 people would make these accusations? 19 A Totally. 211 Sure. 21 And when you if you will go more towards the 22 bottom of the page, there?s a paragraph that says, 23 "Morton, who owns 32 nursing homes in four states.? 24 Do you see where I?m -- where I'm at? 25 A Yes. Yes. Yes. I'm sorry. I see it. 0142 1 "Morton, who owns 32 nursing homes in four states, said he didn?t know whether Baker was at the restaurant with Flanagan. Baker said he was not." Did you tell this reporter that you didn?t know if Gilbert Baker was at Brave New Restaurant with Linda Lee Flanagan? A I don't know ifI told her that or not1 but I know that he was a at at the Brave New restaurant. 10 Well, certainly if-- if-- if-? ifthis 11 report is an accurate -- or this article is an 12 accurate rendition of the conversation that you had 13 with her, what you would have been telling her would 14 have been untrue, true? 15 16 l? ornament-tutu A Yes. I mean, did -- were you trying to mislead her? A No. I mean, I don't know why I would tell her 18 that I actually was asked by support -- about my 19 support. 20 Okay. And, in fact, you've told us today that 21 you knew Gilbert Baker was at Brave New Restaurant, 22 true? 23 A Yes. He -- yes. 24 But you told the reporter you didn?t know if he 25 was there, right? [1143 1 A No. I don?t ?rinkl said that. 2 Okay. So you don?t know -- you question 3 whether or not this is believable? 4 A Yes. I you 5 What we do know is, if Mr. Baker told her that 6 he was not at the restaurant, that's completely 7 false, true? correct? 3 A Yes. 9 I?m going to mark as Exhibit 11 to your 2:53:32 12 All right. 13 A They asked me if! donated to eight. 14 All right. But you didn?t set the record 15 straight and say, Well, actually, I donated to 16 MR EVERETT: Object to the form of 17 the question. You don?t know that unless 18 you see the transcript. l9 IVER. BUCHANAN: No, I understand. 20 BY MR BUCHANAN: 21 What did you tell her? Did you tell her eight 22 or 10? 23 A I have no idea, 131111 --I you know, I 24 wasn?t trying to mislead anybody. 25 I understand. 0146 1 Do you know of any reason that this lady would 2 -- would write eight if you said 10you recall donating to 10, would you have 5 told her, Actually, I donated to 10 instead of 6 eight? 1' A I perhaps would have, but since --I mean, my 8 whole point about, I guess, is that I've had the 9 opportunity to check everything, and there were 111. 10 Okay. All right. Had you given toludge ll Maggio in the past? 12 A No. 13 Would you turn to page 30? 14 A Okay. 15 And it looks like there's a sworn statement 16 by -- or a summary ofone from Gilbert Baker to l? the the staff there at the Ethics Commissionpage 32, Mr. Baker, at least 19 reportedly, and according to this lady, says -- it's 20 towards the bottom of the page. I?m starting where 21 it says, "Again1 he discussed." 22 A Yes. 23 "Again, he discussed many candidates \YiLh 24 Michael Morton. He would have asked him in general 25 for Maggio?s support, but would not have solicited 0147 speci?c amounts from Morton until the judicial window opened." If he said that, that's not true, is it? A Well, it's Ithcught the money that I was giving would go to Maggio. I understand. IfGilbert Baker told this Mr. Barhem that he would not have solicited speci?c amounts from'Morton until the judicial window opened, that?s not correct, according to you; is 10 that true? 11 A That might be why he wanted it in PACs. I 12 don't know. That would make that ifhe had it in 13 PACs, we could sit there and wait until the judicial LOGO-ailthle? 2:53:32 10 deposition a report from the Ethics Commission, a 11 report of where we complained about Judge Maggio. 12 Do you remember speaking with a young lady by the 13 name of Jill Barhem from the Ethics Commission here 14 at this of?ce? 15 (WHEREUPON, Exhibit 11 was marked 16 for identi?cation and attached hereto.) 1? A I remember speaking with a young lady here, 13 yes. 19 Okay. And at that point now -- all of these -- 20 these statements you made in March, the March 14 and 21 March 20, you you didn't have a lawyer at that 22 time, did you, that represented you? 23 A You mean while I was talking to a newspaper 24 reporter? 25 Yes. 11144 1 A No. 2 Okay. When you -- when you visited with -- 3 with Ms. Baritem -- Yes. -- here from the Ethics Commission -- Yes. -- did you bring your lawyers? Yes. Were you sworn? Yes. Okay. If you will turn to page 10. And in -- 12 in fairness to you, this -- this appears to be a 13 rendition from the -- the commission, the Ethics 14 Commission of -- of -- of your conversation -- or 15 the conversation that y'all had. 16 A Yes. 1? And if you look, it says, "He recalls donating 13 money to eight 19 Do you see where I am? ggbbosob 21} A Yes. 21 All right. "He recalls donating money to eight 22 PACs in July of 2013." 23 All right? 24 A Yes. 25 "He was ?rst contacted in May of 2013." 0145 1 All right. Let's -- let's take the ?rst 2 sentence. "He recalls donating money to eight PACs 3 in July of2013." 4 Well, that's v- we know now that?s not 5 accurate. 6 A Yeah, it is. Well, you -- isn?t it true that you donated 3 money to 10 9 A Yes, but I donated to eight. 10 Okay. 11 A They kapt talking about eight. 2:53:32 14 window opened. So maybe he felt like that that?s 15 why it is true, and in my mind, I was giving it 16 then. To Maggie, right? 18 A Yes. Yes. 19 I'll mark as Exhibit 12 another article. 20 What's the date on this article? 21 (WHEREUPON, Exhibit 12 was marked 22 for identi?cation and attached hereto.) A March 25th. 24 or? A 2015. I 01' this year? 2 A Yes. 3 All right. And so -- well, let?s see. At that 4 point, had you already met with the US attomey -- 5 met at the US Attorney's Of?ce? 6 A March ISth -- or March 25th? 10 time you had met with the US Attorney's Of?ce? 11 A No. It was long before that. Before March 12 25111 of '15? 13 Yes. 14 A Yes, way before. 15 THE WITNESS: I think -- wasn?t it 16 in '14? It had to it was last year. 17 MR. EVERETT: Heli, I don?t know. 18 THE WITNESS: Hell, it was last -- 19 MR. EVERETT: I'm thinking it was 20 last fall, but] honestly don't know. 21 THE Yeah. 22 BY MR. BUCHANAN: 23 At this point, you hired a spokesperson, 24 correct? 25 A Now I have, yes. Right. A To talk to her. 3 To talkto Deborah Shelton? 4 A Yes. 5 And he essentially tells her about a second 6 meeting with Mr. Baker; is that correct? A Yes. 8 All right. And -- and prior to that time, had 9 you been asked about any other meetings by her -- 10 had Ms. Shelton asked you about any other meetings? 11 A I don't know because I don't talkto her. 12 Okay. Well, when you were talking to her? 13 A She didn?t -- as far as I know -- I don't Imow 14 what she asked me, and -- and I wouldn?t testifyto 15 what she said 2:53:32 15 Uh-huh. 13 Arkansas Court of Appeals, and defendant said he 1? A -- what I thought or anything else about her. 19 would." 18 All right. At least up until this time, in the 20 Is that what that says? 19 media, there was no mention of a second meeting with 2] A Yes. 20 Mr. Baker? 22 All right, In -- what you told us today is, 21 A I have no idea. 23 that conversation did not occur in April of 2013; it 22 Okay, Did the Ethics Commission ask you 24 occurred in May of -- May the 16th of 2013? 23 whether you had met with -- with Gilbert Baker 25 A Yes. 24 again? 0152 25 A I have no -- I?ve not even read this stuff you Correct? 0150 A Yes. i 1 gave me. And these were -- these were dated this year, 2 All right. I'll go back and ask you about some 3 of these discovery responses, Exhibit 3. 4 A Here it is. Okay. What page? 5 Page 5 and 6. There's an Interrogatory No. 3? 6 A Yes. 2 It says, "Please explain your personal 8 relationship with defendant, Gilbert Baker." 9 And then it says, "Defendant does not have a 10 personal relationship with defendant, Baker." 11 Is that -- do you still take that position? 12 A What are you talking about, now? 13 Well, that that you do not have a personal 14 relationship with Gilbert Baker. 15 A I don?t think] had much of a personal 16 relationship. it's more professional than anything. 11 All right. 18 A It. has been. 19 If you go to pages 6 and 7 about halfway down 20 the page, your response to Interrogatory 2B and C. 21 A Page 6? 22 Well, page 6 has the question, which is January of this year, correct?I A YES. At least in January of this year, were you con?rsed as to whether your meeting was in April or May? A No. You knew it was in May? A Yes. Okay. At least in January of this year, you knew that it was -- you ran into Mr. Baker and Linda Lee Flanagan, right? A Yes. Okay. You wouldn't be confused about whether you ran into Mr. Baker or Linda Lee Flanagan, would yen? A Yes. You would be? A Or no, no, I wouldn't. No. Wellwould not be confused of that. 1 mean, surely, by January of this year, you knew that, right? 23 A Okay. Okay. Okay. A Yes. Yes. 24 -- "Explain your communications with 0153 25 Mr. Baker." 1 What was your reaction when you learned that 0151 2 Judge Maggio had pleaded guilty to bribery? A Okay. 3 A I was surprised. 2 And Ithink page 7 -- 4 Where were you when you learned of this, that 3 A Okay. 5 he had done that? 4 -- and 8 has your response. 6 A I guess at home. 5 A Yes. 1" Well, do you remember where you were when you 6 All right, If you look at and C, it says -- A Page Ithink it was on a Friday or Yes. 10 something. I'm usually at home. 9 A Okay. 11 Okay. How did you learn? 10 Middle of the page. 12 A I forgot. I can't remember how I learned. It 11 A Yes. 13 was so -- I might have learned it on Twitter. They 12 "In Little Rock, Arkansas, in approximately 14 have it ?rst. But I know thatl had to be home 13 April of 2013, defendant recalls an in-person 15 because I went to Tulsa. l4 conversation with Mr. Baker or a female colleague of 16 All right, Was anybody with you there at home? 15 Mr. Baker in which defendant was asked if he would A No. 16 support various judicial candidates, including Judge 13 Do you -- what were you going to do in Tulsa? l?i' Maggio if Judge Maggio ran fora position on the 19 A I have a daughter -- 2:53:32 2:53:32 20 Okay, 22 a case go however they want to. 21 A -- and four grandchildren and a son-in-law that 23 Can we agree that it?s wrong for folks to 22 live there. 24 attemptto in?uence a judge with money? 23 All right. And so you as you sit here now, 25 A Yes. Are -- are you talking about for a quid 24 you -- you really can't recall how you you 0156 25 learned that he pleaded guilty to bribery? 1 pro quo?type giving money? 0154 2 Right. 1 A Right. 3 A I'll give you money if you will do certain 2 I assume are are you aware that he -- 4 things for me? 3 Judge Maggio faces a sentence ofup to 10 years in 5 Sure. 4 federal prison for the crime that he had -- he 6 A That is wrong. 5 pleaded guilty to? 2 And you wouldn't do that, would you? 6 A I just what I've read in the paper and stuff 3 A I haven't. 7 is what I've -- all I know. 9 And you would expect that anybody who has done 3 Do you have any explanation at all for why he 10 that should be punished? 9 would plead guilty to bribery? ii A Yes, 10 A No. 12 Why? 11 Can we at least agree that, in order for there 13 A Because it is objectionable bribe, there's got to be a briber and a 14 MR. EVERETT: Object to the form of 13 bribee? 15 the question, I mean, ask questions 14 MR WATTS: Objection to form. 16 about the facts in this case. 15 BY MR. BUCHANAN: l?l' MR. BUCHANAN: All right. All 16 Can we agree to that? 18 right. Well, 1? A I don't much want to agree with you about 19 BY MR. BUCHANAN: IS stuff, but I will tell you that myself and my lawyer least agree that -- 19 have had lots of talks about a bribee and a briber. 21 A Did you get that from Melanie Piazza, that "can 20 Well, and if what Judge Maggie stipulated to as 22 we at least agree?" or do all lawyers do thattrue, can we at least agree on the fact 23 know, because I don't like sayingI agree a lot of 22 that you stood you stood to gain by his version 24 times. So then I'd have to say I don't agree. Is 23 of the facts? 25 there some other way you can phrase the question 24 MR. WATTS: Objection to form. 015? 25 MR. EVERETT: Do you understand his 1 without asking me if I agree with you? 0155 2 Do you deny or you don't. deny that justice 1 question? 3 shouldn'tbe sold to the highest bidder, do you? 2 THE Yeah. 4 A I do not think it should be sold to the highest 3 MR. EVERETT: Answer i1: ifyou can. 5 bidder, no. 4 A I don't feel like I stood to gain. 6 Is public trust important? Is it important to 5 BY MR BUCHANAN: have trust in the judiciary? 6 If what Judge Maggie stipulated to as true in A Yes. 7 court in from of a federal judge, if all of that's 9 Why? 8 true, can we agree that Mr. Baker was the middleman? 10 A Ithink that -- when you're talking about 9 MR. WATTS: Objection to form. 11 judiciary, you're talking about judges? 10 A I -- I don't --I don?t - I?m not anmvering -- 12 Yes, sir. 11 I don?t know anything about Mr. Baker and his --I 13 A Well, from what I've ob5erved in cases, that, 12 wouldn't speculate or anything else. 14 you know, judiciary, you know, they -- and why I 13 BY MR. BUCHANAN: 15 think that I've given money tojudiciaries, the ones 14 You have read the Plea Agreement, correct? 16 who follow the law, the laws of Arkansas, and I 15 A Yes. I don't have it memorized. 1? appreciate that because I've had judges before that 16 Okay. Can we agree that judges should not be 18 I didn't feel like followed the law. They just do in?uenced by money? 19 whatever they want, make whatever rulings they want i. 13 A We can agree to that. 20 without any regard to the law at all. 19 Why do you agree to that? 21 Well, my question is, why is it important to 20 A I don't think that the public trust should be 22 have public trust in the judiciary? 21 thrown out there for ajudge to take money and make 23 A Just what I told you. So people will have fair 2:53:32 2:53:32 24 trials. 25 Okay. Is there anything that that you can 0153 1 think of in terms of people or events that were 2 signi?cant that we haven?t talked about already in 3 this case here today? 4 A No. 5 All right. Is there anything that, as you sit 6 here right now, you want to correct, meaning you -- you think back and think, Gosh,1 should have 8 answered this way, that was not correct, or, I 9 should have answered that way, that wasn't correct? It] A No. They?ll probably be something, but I?m 11 sure I'll get an opportunity to do that. 12 Sure. But you can?t think of anything right 13 now? 14 A No. 15 All right. 16 MR. BUCHANAN: [will pass the 17 witness. 13 MR. EVERETT: 1 have no questions 19 for Mr. Morton. 20 MR. WATTS: No questions. 21 MR, EVERETT: We'll read and sign. 22 We'll read and sign. 23 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: No one has 24 questions? Okay. The time is 55 minutes 25 past one. This is the end ofTape No. 4 0159 1 as well as the conclusion to the 2 deposition of Michael Morton. We're now 3 off the record. 4 (WI-IEREUPON, the proceedings 5 concluded in the matter at 1:55 pm2:53:32 25 0162 SIGNATURE OF DEPONENT CERTIFICATE 2 I, do hereby certify that I have read the foregoing deposition and that, to the 3 best of my knowledge and belief, said deposition is one and accurate with the exception of the following corrections listed below: PAGE CORRECTION Signature of ??tness 13 STATE OF 19 COUNTY OF 20 SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN TO before me this day of 2015. 21 22 My commission expires: 23 NOTARY PUBLIC 24 25 l5 2:53:32 0160 1 CERTIFICATE 2 STATE or ARKANSAS )ss COUNTY OF WASHINGTON I, Jennifer L. Weber, Certi?ed Court Reporter #653, do hereby certify that the facts stated by me in the caption on the foregoing proceedings are true; and that the foregoing proceedings were reported verbatim through the use of the voice-writing method and therea?er transcribed by me or under my direct supervision to 12 the best of my ability, taken at the time and place set out on the caption hereto. I FURTHER CERTIFY, that I am not a relative or employee of any attorney or employed by the parties 16 hereto, nor ?nancially interested or otherwise, in the Outcome of this action, and thatI have no 18 contract with the parties, attorney, or persons with 19 an interest in the action that affects or has a 20 substantial tendency to affect impartiality, that 21 requires me to relinquish control of an original 22 deposition transcript or copies of the transcript 23 before it is certi?ed and delivered to the 24 custodial attorney, or that requires me to provide 25 any service not made available to all parties to the 0161 1 action. 2 I FURTHER CERTIFY, that in accordance with Ride 3 30(3) of the Rules of Civil Procedure, review of the 4 transcript was requested. 5 WITNESS MY HAND AND SEAL this 25th day of June, 6 2015. 2 9 10 JENNIFER WEBER Arkansas State Supreme Court 11 Certi?ed Court Reporter #653 My Commission Expires 12 March 19, 2017 hull?II?l th 2:53:32