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GHILDUTA
that occurred?
A. The first time personally I give
something to him was after he hire me. I
give $1,000.

Q. Why did you give him $1,000?
A. Because that was the deal I make
with him before I get hired.

Q. Who is Nikolai?
A. Nikola! is a friend of mine.
Q. What's his full name?
A. Majescu Nikolai.
Q. Is Nikolai the person that

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about the thousand dollars or did Mr.
Gjieli approach you about the thousand
dollars?
A. Mr. Gjieli approached me about
the amount because he told me to don't go
to the other guy, to my friend, so if we
talk something, we do something, we have
to go straight to him.
Q. Who was your friend he was

what to expect, right?
A. Right.
Q. Were you hired after you gave

11

Mr. Gjieli the thousand dollars?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Mr. Gjie1i hired you?
A. No, first I give him the gift,

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then after he hire me, I give him the

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thousand dollars.

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recommended or referred this job to you?
A. Correct, sir.
Q. Did you approach Mr. Gjieli

GHILDUTA
A. Because that was the deal before
I get hired.
Q. Because Nikolai told you that's

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Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.

What was the gift you gave him?
I give him a crucifix.
A crucifix?
Yes, about $490, about $500.
And then he hired you?
Yes.
Do you have the receipt from
where you bought that crucifix?
A. I don't have a receipt, but I
have a witness.
Q. Who is the witness?
A. Nikolai's wife.

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GHILDUTA
referring to?
A. Majescu, the guy that recommend
me for porter.
Q. So where were you when
Mr. Gjieli told you this?
A. 29th floor.
Q. 29th floor?
A. His Office.
Q. And that's the manager's office?
A. Correct.
Q. Were you expecting him to ask
you for a gift? Let me withdraw that.
Did Nikolai tell you that you
should expect that Mr. Gjieli would be
asking you for a gift?
A. He make a deal before.
Q. Again, the question is just yes
or no, did Nikolai indicate to you to
expect Mr. Gjieli to ask for a gift?
A. I cannot recall that.
Q. Were you surprised when
Mr. Gjieli asked you for a gift?
A. No.
Q. Why not?

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GH!LDUTA
Q. Nikolai's wife?
A. Yes.
Q. Where did you purchase this?
A. Right here on canal Street.
Q. What's the name of the store?
A. I don't remember. I don't
remember.
Q. Is there anything that would
help you remember what the name of the
store is?
A. I know exactly where the store
is.
Q. I'm sorry?
A. I know where the store is, but I
cannot tell you right now.
Q. Okay, we will leave a space in
the transcript and you can tell me where
the store is and what the name is?
A. Okay
(Insert:)
Q. And is it still there now?
A. I think so.
Q. What is Nikolai's wife's name,
the one that was with you?

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GHJLDLITA
Joany,
1-o-a-n-y, Majescu.
A.
were
you
friends with Nikolai
Q.
and Ioany?
A. Yes, I used to be.

At the time in 1994, you were
friends with them?
A. Yes.
Q. What were you doing work-wise at
the time that you went to -- for
employment at Trump?

Q.

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A.

Your income taxes?
Yes, sure.

Q. After you gave Mr. Gjieli the
crucifix, you were hired, is that correct?
A.

Correct, sir.

Q.

Did Mr. Gjieli also ask you to
fill out any employment applications?

A.

And you did that?

A.

Yes, sir.

Was I working --

Q.

Yes, were you working before

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Yes, I did work, yes.
At that time were you employed,

at the time that you went to seek work

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with Trump?
A. Yes, I work.
Q. Where were you working at that
time?
A. MT Pretzel. It's a company right
here.
Q. What's the name of it?
A. MT Pretzel.

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Q.

Q.

Q.

A.
A.

something.

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then?

GHILDLITA
going to find a way, income tax or

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Yes, sir.

Q.
(Defendants' Exhibit B marked
for identification.)
Q. Mr. Ghilduta, I just marked a
document for identification Defendants'
B. It's a two-page document. The second
page there's a signature next to a
signature line. Is that your signature?
A. Yes.
Q. Is this your writing on the
first page?
A. Yes, sir.
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Q.

MT Pretzel?
A. Yes. It's am food company.
Q. What were you doing with them?
A. I was a salesperson.
Q. A salesperson?
A. Yes.
Q. What was your income in 1993
with MT Pretzel?
A. I cannot recall that.
Q. What was your income when you
first started with Trump? What was your
salary?

A.

Around $30,000, $33,000.

Q. Was that more or less than YoU
were making at MT Pretzel?
A. It was more.
Q. Is there anything that would
help you remember what your salary was at
MT Pretzel?
A. No right now, but I can provide
you that information.
Q. Where would you get that
information from?
A. I talk with the company. I am

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GHILDLITA

Q.

And that is YoUr application for
employment.
MR. BARROWS: Is that correct, a
copy of your application for employment?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. I notice that the section next
to college or education, that is blank.
Did you go to college in Rumania?
A. Sure, sir.
Q. Why is it blank in the
application?
A. Because manager told me don't
write more than 1 did because you are over
qualified for the job. So when you get a
job, you have to put up enough how much
education, sir.
Q. And what was the name of the
college you attended in Rumania?
A. Cluj Polytechnic Institute of
Construction.
Q. Where was that located?
A. Cluj.
Q. Cluj, Rumania?
A. Yes.

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GHJLDUTA
Q. Is that still there?
A. Yes, it's still there.
Q. Polytechnic Institute of

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Construction?
A. Yes.
Q. And that was the only college
you attended?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. What degree did you

obtain from

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there?

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A. Bachelor degree.
Q. And you see there's a column

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there or row there for trade school as

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well in the application, is that correct?
A. Yes.

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Q. And why is that blank? Well, let
me back up. Did you attend the trade
school in Rumania?
A. No.
Q. Did you attend a trade school
anywhere?
A. No.
Q. So the only school you attended
was Polytechnic Institute of Construction

GHJLDUTA
A. No, sir.
Q. He had left for another company?
A. Yes, he left.
Q. Did you have any discussions
with any other of your coworkers about
Mr. Gjieli's hiring practices?
A. Yes, I did, sir.

Q.

With whom did you have such

discussions?
A. Cornell Nedelcu, Petre Anghel.
A few others I don't remember right now.
Q. When did you have a conversation
with Cornell Nedelcu With regard to
Mr. Gjieli's hiring practices?
A. When I met him.
Q. When you first met him?
A. Yes.
Q. And when was that?
A. I cannot recall right now. I
don't remember exactly when it was the
time.
Q. More than five years ago?
A. Yes, more than five years.
Q. Was it more than two or three

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GHILDUTA
and that's where you referred to earlier
you obtained a degree in civil
engineering, is that correct?
A. Yes, that's correct.
Q. And you knew Nikolai in Rumania,
is that correct?
A. Correct, sir.
Q. Was he employed with Trump?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was he still employed with Trump
on December 20, 2002?
A. No, sir.
Q. Are you currently in contact
with him?
A. No, he is dead, sir.
Q. When did he die?
A. I don't remember exactly. He
died in car accident in -Q. Approximately five years or
more?
A. More.
Q. And at the time that he was in
in the car accident, was he employed with
Trump?

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GHILDUTA
years after you first started working for
Trump?
A. I think after three years. I
cannot recall right now.
Q. What were the circumstances that
this conversation about Mr. Gjieli's
hiring practices came about that you had
with Cornell Nedelcu?
A. Mr. Gjieli asked me to find the
guys which went in wanted to work to pay
for the job.
Q. When did Mr. Gjieli ask you
this?
A. I cannot recall right now, but
it was like two months before he get
hired.
Q. Did Mr. Gjieli ask you to do
this on more than one occasion?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. When was the first time he asked
you to do this?
A. This was the first time, sir.
Q. Can you tell me the other times
that he did this?

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?o

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o,
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GHILDUTA
between Mr. Nedelcu and Mr. Gjieli with
respect to the money that had to be paid
to Mr. Gjieli?
A. Can you rephrase it, like a

little shorter, please.
Q. All right, let me go back.

8

Did Mr. Gjieli ever communicate

9

to Mr. Nedelcu about the money that
Mr. Nedelcu was going to have to pay
Mr. Gjieli?
A. No, sir.

Q.

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So Mr. Gjieli communicated with

you about that money?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. And you communicated with
Mr. Nedelcu, is that correct?
A. Correct, sir.
Q. Do you know anybody else who
acted as a go-between for Mr. Gjieli and a
potential employee, besides yourself?
MR. BARROWS: Object to the term
go-between.
A. There were a few other people.
Q. You understand what I mean by

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GHILDUTA
That was the practice or whatever.
Q. Other than yourself and
Mr. Petre, do you know if this was being
done by anybody else?
A. Sure, all the guys pay the
money.
Q. I'm sorry?
A. All the guys which pay for the
job, somebody else took the money. Also I
don't know the situation when the person
gives money to him, it was one person who
take it to the job and took the money and
give the money to the manager.
Q. So you did this on two
occasions, is that correct?
A. No, I did that one occasion, but
in another guy was the guy which I tell
him -Q. Okay, I understand. In other
words, you testified already that the
second person -- you didn't handle the
money, you just referred him to
Mr. Gjieli, is that correct?
A. Yes, correct.

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GHILDUTA
go-between?
A. Yes, yes. If I understand well,
you talk about somebody else took the
money from another one and they give money
to Mr. Gjieli. That is your question?
Q. Yes.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And who were those people?
A. You see, when Petre Anghel took
the money, he bring one guy, he give the
money to Gjieli, sir.
Q. So Petre Anghel did similar
thing that you did, correct?
A. Yes, yes, yes.
Q. Anybody else?
A. I cannot recall right now.
Q, And why do you think that
Mr. Gjieli asked you to act as this
go-between?
A. I don't have any explanation
right now, sir.
Q. Did you have any explanation at
the time that this occurred?
A. I don't have an explanation.

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Q.

Was there any other occasion
when you referred somebody to Mr. Gjieli?
A. It was like four times.
Q. Four times?
A. Yes.
Q. And on each of these occasions
did you tell the person that you referred
that you were sure he was going to have to
pay Mr. Gjieli?
A. Yes.
Q. And on each of those occasions
did that person directly, or through
somebody else, pay Mr. Gjieli?
A. I assume so, sir.
Q. Do you know how much the second
person paid Mr. Gjieli?
A. I don't know.
Q. Other than that first occasion,
did you ever personally handle the money
that was being exchanged?
A. No, sir.
Q. So on those other occasions, you
served merely as the person who referred
the potential employee to Mr. Gjieli, is

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Case Document 77 Filed 03/03/08. Page 1 of,5 ..

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT i. . ..    i
SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK I i?  "j   

IOAN GHILDUTA   [$11 0 5.
..
Plaintiff,
?against? 04 CV 7494 (BSJ) (GWG)
ECF Case

THE TRUMP CORPORATION and MICHAEL P.
ISHMAN, as President of LOCAL 32B-32J, . -. 


 

 

 

 

 

 

SERVICE EMPLOYEES INTERNATIONAL
UNION, AFL-CIO

Defendants.


 

 

SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT AND GENERAL RELEFWE

This Settlement Agreement and General Release (the ?Agreement?) is made by
and between The Trump Corporation, The Board of Managers (Residential and
Commercial) of the Trump Tower Condominium, and Trump Tower Commercial LLC
(collectively ?Trump?); Michael P. Fishman, as President of Local 328-32], Service
Employees International Union, AF L-CIO (?Local (collectiver ?Defendants?);
and loan Ghilduta, an individual residing in the State of New York (?Plaintiff?),
(collectively ?the Parties?).

WHEREAS, Plaintiffs filed a Complaint in United States District Court for the
Southern District of New York entitled ?loan Ghilduta v. The Trump Corporation and
Michael P. Fishman, as President of Local 328-32], Service Employees International
Union, Index Number 04/7494 (United States District Court, Southern
District of New York) (?Action?);

WHEREAS, Defendants deny all claims in the Action; and

WHEREAS, the Parties have determined it to be in their mutual interests to settle
the Action.

NOW, THEREFORE, for good and valuable consideration, the sufficiency of
which is acknowledged hereby, and in consideration of the mutual covenants and
undertakings set forth herein, the Parties agree as follows:

1. Compensation. Trump and Local 328] each agrees to issue a check to Plaintiff
in the amount of seven thousand ?ve hundred dollars ($7500.00) within seven
days after the Agreement, and the stipulation referenced in paragraph 8, have been
signed by Plaintiff and returned to Katchen Locke, SEIU Local 328], 101 Avenue
of the Americas, New York, NY 10013, and so long as Plaintiff has not revoked
the Agreement as set forth in paragraph 13 below.

 

 

Case Document 77 Filed 03/03/08 Page 2 of 5

2. Denial of Wrongdoing. It is agreed and understood between the Parties that
nothing contained in this Agreement, nor the fact that Plaintiff has been paid any
consideration under it, shall be construed to be an admission of liability or any
wrongdoing by Defendants.

3. Con?dentiality. It is agreed and understood between the Parties that the terms
and conditions of this Agreement shall be kept con?dential. Plaintiff agrees that
he will not disclose any information concerning the terms and conditions of this
Agreement, including the amount paid to him, except to his immediate family
members and to his legal, tax and/or ?nancial advisor(s), and to the extent
necessary to enforce the terms of this Agreement. Any damages resulting from a
breach of this con?dentiality provision will be dif?cult to determine, and Plaintiff
agrees that Trump and Local 32BJ shall each be entitled to recover the amount of
$7,500.00 from the Plaintiff as liquidated damages in the event of each such
distinct and separate breach by Plaintiff, in addition to attorney?s fees and costs
and any equitable relief available to Trump and Local 32BJ. This provision shall
be reciprocal in nature in all respects.

4. No Future Employment. Plaintiff agrees that he will not seek any future
employment with Trump.

5. General Release. Plaintiff, in consideration of the sum of seven thousand ?ve
hundred Dollars and other good and valuable consideration received
from and/or on behalf of Local 3ZBJ and Trump, receipt of which is hereby
acknowledged, releases and discharges: 1(a) Trump, Trump?s parents,
subsidiaries, af?liates, present and former of?cers, directors, attorneys,
employees, shareholders, members, agents and representatives, The Trump
Organization, Inc, Donald J. Trump individually, and any and all other
corporations, partnerships, limited liability companies, designees, and other
entities owned, Operated, controlled and/or managed by Donald J. Trump, and
each and every entity and/or business or company with which Donald J. Trump is
af?liated in any manner, and each of the aforementioned releasees? respective
of?cers, agents, directors, employees, attorneys servants, partners, members,
subsidiaries, and shareholders, collectively, the ?Trump Releasees?); and
2(a) Local 3ZBJ, and Local 3ZBJ ?5 parents, subsidiaries, af?liates, present and
former of?cers, directors, attorneys, agents, employees, servants, and members
collectively ?Local 32BJ Releasees?), from all actions, causes of action,
suits, debts, dues, sums of money, accounts, reckonings, bonds, bills, Specialties,
covenants, controversies, agreements, promises, variances, trespasses, damages,
judgments, extents, executions, claims and demands whatsoever, in law, admiralty
or equity, which against the Trump Releasees, and/or Local 32BJ Releasees,
which Plaintiff ever had, now has, or hereafter can, shall, or may have, for, upon,
or by reason of any matter, cause or thing whatsoever from the beginning of the
world to the day of the date of this Agreement. This release is general in nature as
and between Plaintiff and the Trump Releasees and Local 3ZBJ Releasees, but

 

 

Case Document 77 Filed 03/03/08 Page 3 of 5

10.

ll.

12.

also speci?cally relates to all claims or causes of action asserted or which could
have been asserted in the Action.

on-Disparagement. Plaintiff agrees not to criticize or denigrate Trump
Releasees; or (ii) make any remarks or comments about Trump Releasees, orally
or in writing, to any third party, which remarks or comments reasonably could be
construed to be derogatory or disparaging in nature, or which reasonably could be
anticipated to be damaging or injurious to Trump Releasees? reputation or good
will. Any damages resulting from a breach of this non-disparagement provision
will be difficult to determine, and Plaintiff agrees that Trump shall be entitled to
recover the amount of $7,500.00 from the Plaintiff as liquidated damages in the
event of each such distinct and separate breach by Plaintiff, in addition to
attorney?s fees and costs and any equitable relief available to Trump. This
provision shall be reciprocal in nature in all respects

Duty of Fair Representation. Without any admission of wrongdoing, Local
agrees to comply with its duty of fair representation with respect to its
representation of Plaintiff.

Dismissal of Claims. Plaintiff agrees to dismiss with prejudice any and all claims
against Defendants, including any and all claims asserted, or which could have
been asserted, in the Action. Plaintiffs shall execute the Stipulation of Dismissal,
attached here as Exhibit A, and any and all other documents necessary to effect
the dismissal of the Action with prejudice, and to waive, release and discharge
with prejudice any and all rights, claims or causes of action Plaintiff may have in
the Action.

Covenant Not to Sue. Plaintiff agrees that he will not, jointly or individually, ?le
any charge, claim, grievance, suit, complaint or action with any government
agency, union body or in any court or other jurisdiction against Defendants
relating to any claims that are released in Paragraph 5.

General. The invalidity of any provision of this Agreement shall not affect the
validity of any other provision hereof. This Agreement may be executed in
counterparts.

Entire Agreement. This Agreement constitutes the entire agreement between the
Parties with respect to the matters set forth herein and supersedes and terminates
any and all previous agreements and negotiations between the parties with respect
to the matters set forth herein. Plaintiff acknowledges that Defendants have made
no promises to him other than those contained in this Agreement. This
Agreement may not be changed unless the change is in writing and signed by all
of the Parties.

Review Period. Plaintiff acknowledges that he has been afforded a reasonable
and sufficient period of twenty-one (21) days to review and consider this

 

 

Case Document 77 Filed 03/03/08 Page 4 of 5

13.

14.

LOCAL 32 

By; 

Name:

Title:

Date:

Agreement before signing it. Plaintiff understands that he may use as much of
this twenty-one?day period as he wishes prior to signing. Plaintiff acknowledges
that, to the extent that he decides to sign this Agreement prior to the expiration of
the above period, such decision was knowing and voluntary on his part. The
Parties agree that any changes to this Agreement, whether material or immaterial,
do not restart the running of the twenty-one day period.

Revocation Period. Plaintiff acknowledges and understands that he may revoke
this Agreement within seven (7) days of the date on which he signs it (?the
Revocation Period?) by delivering a written notice of revocation to Katchen
Locke, SEIU Local 3281, 101 Avenue ofthe Americas, NY, NY 10013, no later
than the close of business on the seventh day after he signs this Agreement. If
Plaintiff revokes this Agreement during the Revocation Period, the entire
Agreement shall be null and void and the Parties shall have no obligations under
the Agreement to one another. This Agreement shall not be effective or
enforceable and no payment will be made hereunder until after this Agreement is
fully-executed by the Parties.

Choice of Forum and Law. This Agreement shall in all respects be interpreted,
enforced and governed in accordance with and pursuant to federal law. The
Honorable Barbara S. Jones of the United States District Court for the Southern
District of New York shall retain jurisdiction to resolve any dispute arising out of,
or related to, this Agreement.

 



Name: Cece  

Zoo/it;

 

 

Title: R?vvome% Ere-i ?from?

 fl 
Z*Eit%

aware??

Date:

 

 

ScalkxA  is: 

 

IOAN Pro Se Plaintiff

Date:

 

62 as 

Sworn to before me this 200'- day of

  ,2008
Notary ic

LYLE D. ROWEN
Notary Public State of New York
No. 02H0611B333
Quali?ed In New York County

Commission Expires November 8, 20 i?

4

 

 

Case Document 77 Filed 03/03/08 Page 5 of 5

SO ORDERED:

 

x' Honorable Barbara S. {63

708/

 

 

Three indicted

in bribery case

By BILLY BOWLES

Free Press Staff Writer

Three Albanian men. one of them already serving
four life terms for murder and assault. have been
indicted by a federal grand jury on charges of offering a
$100,000 bribe to a US. Treasury Department agent for
help in a prison escape.

The indictment against convicted murderer Zeff
Lulgjurai. his 20-year-old son Nickola. and a family
friend. Gjergj GJlell. 36, was announced Monday in
Detroit by US. Attorney James K. Robinson.

According to a press release from Robinson?s office.
family friend Gjleii approached Treasury agent Robert
Van Hengei on June ll asking his help in a plan to help
Lulgjura] escape from Jackson Prison, where he was
sent after his June 1977 conviction for gunning down
four men in his restaurant. Zorba?s Coney island at 9100
Woodward. on Oct. 28, 1976. -

The indictment says Gjieil met again with Van
Hengei five days later and reiterated the offer and on
July 22 Van Hengei went to Jackson and met with left
who told Van Hengei that $50,000 to $60,000
was already raised to pay the bribe.

According to the indictment, Gjieli and Nickola
Luigjura] met with Van Hengei July 24 and gave him
310.000, and on Aug. 5. Nickola met again with the
agent and showed him $90,000 more. but did not give it
to him.

Nickels Luigjura] declined to comment on the
charges. His lawyer. Evan Callahan of Westland, said
the charges "are far-fetched. I think you've got a
government agent taking advantage of some very naive
people . . . an overzealous government agent taking
advantage of a naive foreigner."

Callahan said the government has tape recordings
that it claims support its case, but Callahan said he has
not yet listened to them.

Nickola Lulgjuraj was charged along with his father
in the shootings. in which Leroy Turner. 29. Morgan
Marshall Jr.. 44. and Robert Duson, 44. all of Detroit,
were killed and William Anderson, 20. was wounded
and left paralyzed.

Nickola was 16 at the time and was committed to the
Michigan Department of Social Services for detention in
the state?s Boys Vocational School. Lawyer Callanan
said Nickels now is a student at Wayne County Commu-
nity College.

 

 

)

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,

' p

I

CRIMINAL NO.80-80529

Plaintiff, Q
'

VS_

~

HON. HORACE GILMORE

'

,"1

:

.'

'

L.

A-

GJERGJ GJIELI, ET AL.,

'

' a

Def
end
ant
s.
.
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6

32

SENTENCING MEMORANDUM

"fir

FOR
THE
UNIT
ED
STAT
ES
---------------------

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INTRODUCTION

1

22%;

93,

The purpose of this memorandum is to provide to the court
the views of the United States as they relate to what type of

sentence that should be imposed.

Initially, it should be noted

that since this was a jury trial, this court has seen and heard
all of the evidence;

therefore,

this memorandum will not dis-

cuss the facts in any great detail.

For reasons which will

be explained in the following discussion,

it is the position

of the United States that all of these defendants should be
imprisoned for a substantial period of time.

SENTENCING CONSIDERATIONS

GJERGJ GJIELI

As this court has seen from the evidence,

defendant
;he

Gjieli was the person who first approached Special Agent Van

Hengel with the bribe offer.

It is the contention of the United

States that this defendant was acting pursuant to the instructions
of defendant Zef Lulgjuraj,

him out anyway.)

(who told him to find somebody to get

Lfi

--cuitaule evidence established beyond any doubt that

defendant Gjieli's actions were knowingly done.

He acted in a

calculated manner to find a method to help a convicted murderer

break out of prison.

This utter disdain for the laws of our

country cannot be tolerated.

His actions are even more re--

prehensible when one considers that he is a citizen of this
country by choice.

According to his testimony, this defendant

came to the United States to enjoy the abundant freedoms that

are non--existent in Albania or Yugoslavia.

This defendant

should learn that freedom carries a price:

obedience to the

law.
The United States believes that because of defendant
Gjieli's central role in these offenses and the contempt he
has shown and,
laws,

in fact, continues to Show for our system of

a substantial period of incarceration and a committed fine

should be imposed.

As an indicator of the seriousness of this

offense, the United States made a plea offer of a maximum of
ten imprisonment to this defendant.
ZEF LULGJURAJ

Paradoxically speaking, making a sentencing recommendation

with respect to this defendant is both the easiest and the most

difficult task.

This is due to the fact that this defendant

is already incarcerated; the temptation exists to simply say

that whatever is done by this court would have little or no
However, to take such a position would be a derelection

'

of the duties of this office.

it is the position of the United States that a

O
n

Briefly,

the
d at

H 7*

geffect.

signigicant period of incarceration--consecutive to his pre-

The

'1"3'a

sent sentence----should be imposed upon this defendant.
v

_United States urges a consecutive sentence because of the>>

seriousness of the offenses for which this defendant attempted
to avoid incarceration.
'

.

V"

Furthermore,
.A

,1'

it should be noted that
'

,',1>!_'_,,.'A

(

under the laws of this state, a sentence of imprisonment for
>

escape is consecutive;

M.C.L.A. 750.193.

Such a law reflects

' -_uuALD wno try to avoid
couliuement for their crimes.

The United States believes that

this court should recognize and give effect to that policy hererecognizing in the process that the defendant tried to use the
Federal Government to avoid his confinement.v

NICKOLA LULGJURAJ
As indicated during the trial of this case, the evidence

clearly established that this defendant knew what he was doing
and was fully aware of the illegal nature of his activities.
While it is possible that he acted out of love for his father

and perhaps even followed his father's orders, that does not
excuse his actions.

In fact,

it should be noted that when

this defendant followed his father's orders just over four

years ago, he killed three people.
The importance ofifibt fact can not and should not be lost
on this court.

This defendant, Nickola Lulgjuraj,

is not the

innocent, well intentioned young man that he and his

sweet,

family/friends would have this court believe.

This court

observed the defendant on the witness stand as he twisted and
contorted facts in a futile attempt to avoid a conviction for

his actions.

Now, we are subjected to the same display in an

attempt to avoid a well deserved substantial period of imprisonment.

Counsel for defendant has requested sentencing under the
Youth Correction Act.

The United States of America strenuously

objects to any such sentence.

To allow a person who, along with

his father, has killed three people and then tried to help his

father escape from confinement for those offenses to receive

the
:1 a!
oke

ij e fact of the matter is that this defendant needs to
be punished; there is no hope of rehabilitation because if

":
mes
cri
se
the
of
one
any
mit
com
ld
wou
he
ty,
uni
ort
opp
given the
again.

t
an
nd
fe
de
is
th
ce
en
nt
se
to
ed
ir
qu
re
t
no
is
t
ur
co
'This

under the Act.

The only legal requirement is that the court

7:;

the benefits of the Act would be a travesty of justice.

-

need not even be stated.

424,441 (1973).

-cusuus

Dorzynski v.

for

such a finding

United States,

418 U.S.

The United States urges this court to make a

finding of'"no benefit"'and impose a Substantial period of
incarceration as an adult upon this defendant.
CONCLUSION

In conclusion,

it should be noted that the offenses of

which these defendants have been convicted are very serious.
Bribery is an offense which goes to the integrity of a free
governmental system such as ours.

It is an offense which

attempts to substitute the will of the individual for that
of the orderly processes of government.
Jacobs, 431 F.2d.754,759 (2nd Cir.

1970).

See United States v.
Accordingly, these

defendants should be sternly dealt with.
Respectfully submitted,

RICHARD A. ROSSMAN
United States Attorney

OHN N. THOMPSON,

. P--

)

Assistant United States Attorney
Attorneys for Plaintiff
817 Federal Building
Detroit, Michigan 48226
313/ 226--4460

Dated:

January 6, 1981

CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE
th<

Robert G. Anderson;

1766 City National Bank B1dg., Detroit,

48226, by depositing same in a U.S. Postal Service mail
receptacle located in the Federal BUilding in Detroit, Michigan

MI

on January 6, 1981.

Miran a

MM i__i___qfl.

"

arris,

ecretary

okt

I 7" ll

This is to certify that copies of the foregoing Memorandum
Evan Callanan and John
was served upon the following counsels:
Poman; 33300 W. Warren, Suite 107, Westland, MI 48185, and

TRUE NAME: Gjergj Gjieli

"--
._
DOCKET NO

J [_

| 80 - 80529

iUflEXefiUifllfiiIQRUZ)EXEGQEMBfiifiUEMQQCXMTMIHHVNEfiUfi Gbifibefii
mourn

In the presence of the attorney for the government

198 1

I
8
y
ar
nu
Ja
--
>
--
--
--
--
--
--
--
--
e
dat
this
on
son
per
in
ed
ear
app
the defendant

l
red
desi
t
ndan
defe
her
whet
d
aske
and
sel
coun
to
t
righ
of
t
ndan
defe
sed
advi
t
However the cour

L_l WITHOUT COUNSEL

COUNSEL

have counsel appointed by the court and the defendant thereupon waived assistance of counsel.

.

a

YLAM

DAY

lX_.I WITH COUNSEL

LBPEeE'ifin'leisin _ _ _ _ _ _ of_cou_nse_l) _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _. _
(Name

PLEA

1 NOT GUILTY

|

|NOLO CONTENDERE,

l

L__.l GUILTY, and the court being satisfied that
there is a factual basis for the plea,

L__l NOT GUILTY. Defendant is discharged

flaming/verdict of

There being

[EJ GUILTY.

k

Defendant has been convicted as charged of the offense(s) of

FINDING &

"mGMENr

Count One:

Conspiracy to Bribe a Public Official; l8:USC:37l.

Count Two:

Birbery of a Public Official;

18:USC201(b)(3).

r'
tra
con
the
to
se
cau
t
ien
fic
suf
no
e
aus
Bec
d.
nce
nou
pro
be
not
uld
sho
nt
gme
The court asked whether defendant had anything to say why jud
i
ant
end
def
The
t:
tha
d
ere
ord
and
ted
vic
con
and
d
rge
cha
as
lty
gui
ant
end
def
the
ed
udg
adj
rt
cou
the
rt,
cou
the
to
ed
ear
app
or
wn,
sho
was
of
iod
per
a
for
ent
onm
ris
imp
for
ve
ati
ent
res
rep
d
ize
hor
aut
his
hereby committed to the custody of the Attorney General or-

years

(5)

Count One:

Five

SENS?"

Count Two:

Fifteen (15) years

"3:33?"

These sentences to run concurrently .

BOND IN THIS MATTER WAS CANCELLED ON

11/2 1/80

Defendant remanded at that time.
SPECIAL
CONDITIONS
OF
PROBATION

ADDHTONAL
CONDITIONS

0F
PROBATION

-'

r~ ._

'7 r

_

__

the
on
t
ou
set
n
io
at
ob
pr
of
ns
io
it
nd
co
l
era
gen
the
t
tha
d
re
orde
by
re
he
IS
It
e,
ov
ab
d
se
po
im
n
io
at
ob
pr
of
ns
io
it
nd
co
l
cia
spe
In addition to the
.
n,
io
at
ob
pr
of
ns
io
it
nd
co
the
ge
an
ch
y
ma
t
ur
Co
reverse side of this judgment be imposed. The
w,
la
by
d
te
it
rm
pe
s
ar
ye
ve
fi
of
od
ri
pe
n
io
at
ob
pr
m
mu
xi
any time during the probation period or within a ma
.
iod
per
n
io
at
ob
pr
the
ng
ri
du
g
in
rr
cu
oc
ion
lat
vio
a
for
n
io
at
prob

,--
ds
en
mm
co
re
d
an
l
ra
ne
Ge
ey
rn
to
At
e
th
of
y
The court orders commitment . to the cu. stod
.
the,

.1. u

"is okdmd that the Clerk dcrm
I
a certified copy of this judgment

Mllen' Federal

and commitment to the U.S. Marshal or other qualified officer.

.

-

j \x\ a i
DATION

\

\'\i\'\?\
(

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V
SIGNED BY

'--

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LKKJ U.S. District Judge

Horace W . Gil m

"ms. it..-

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Ni . s N Us"

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on." r.

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i
---
---
.LUTll-Tne'al'l'eg ati'oh 5 0 f Paragraph fourteen are ne' h

/;139

6/

"Md __ n

'

"'ZE//Jy//

i

,
_,Y.d9 not heceSSarily have to become'citizens.
They can be jlssued what we {call ~a green card, which

allows them to be-a resident alien;

'* I

'A

As far as I know, Marash I know is a resident

alien.
Gjergh we believe has a green card, and Zeff
and Nick both have green cards. Whether or not they
have subsequently become citizens, we're not really

sure of that.

'

A JUROR:

Okay.

That 18--

MR. THOMPSON: " (interposing) for reasons
unknown to me, the immigration records are not very
well kept and we asked them to check it out, and we
still haven't been able to get a clear answer on it.
Page 22 -- COVERT:
" .
Gjergj, who is an Albanian, engaged
him in the conversation about getting a short--wave
radio so that he could listen to broadcasts from his
native Albania.

Page 23 - COVERT:
" . . .
Zeff was convicted of shooting four
people here in Detroit on Woodward and Clairmount back
in--l975,

I believe,

or

'76 is when his occurred.

Three of the people were, they were all shot,
and when they were down he and his son went around
and shot them again to make sure, and one guy played
like he was dead but he lived.

He's paralyzed for life, but he did live.
And subsequently, Zeff was convicted of
these murders and they wanted to break him out of
jail and secrete him out of the country. 'They wanted
to get him back into Albania, which is one of the'"

Communist bloc countries at this time.
Page 24 - COVERT:

" . . .7 These people are particularly
violent people.' They don't need muCh of an excuse
to kill anybody. They have no respect for law, law
enforcement. The fact that they offered a'Specialv >>>>
Agent a bribe let's you know what they think of law
enforcement.' They juSt figure they can buy anybody.

Page 25 -'COVERT!j "I.

:1.'Most of-the; all of the defen ants

,in"this Case are aliens. EAlbanians talk very,.Very;
fast and maybe that"S'why they chose ATF, becauSe
we're used to working with machine guns, you know,

becauSe'he'juSt, you know, talks very, very fast.
So you have to---they are hard to understand.

it's there.

But

TRANSCRIPT

On June 16,
.of Alcohol,

1980,

Special Agent ROBERT VAN HENGEL, Bureau

Tobacco and Firearms,

Criminal Enforcement,

Detroit, Michigan, made an undercover contact with
GJERGJ GJIELI at DeLuca's Lounge, 1008 N. Woodward,
Oak, Michigan.
"

Royal

At approximately 6:02 p.m., Special Agent VAN HENGEL
entered the lounge.
The conversations were recorded.
GJIELI was not immediately present, but arrived later.
General conversations with other persons, not associated
with this investigation are omitted.
GJIELI is a bartender
and since he was working the conversations are interrupted.
One June 26, 1980 and June 27, 1980, Special Agent Van
Hengel transcribed the conversations.

The following is a transcript of the conversations between
Special

Agent VAN HENGEL and GJERGJ GJIELI:

V.

GEORGL just walked in,

...

Routine bar talk .
G.

How you young man?

V.

Pretty good GEORGE,

G.

Oh,

'V.

I'm crazy,

in a red shirt

.

.

.

.

how are you?

crazy.

You're late.

G.

(Unintelligible)

V.

I know tnat.

G.

I didn't call you so then .

V.

What?

G.

you know don't have no
You probably busy in office
time to call (unintelligible) and ah, his father was last
night in my house . . . Sunday night

V.

Who's father?

G.

ZBF's

V.

Yeah.

father .

.

TOBY knows that

.

.

.

.

(unintelligible)

.

.

.--2...

And you say for what, you told me, you know, you got
talk to somebody,

I don't know you know

have been left him last night .

.

.

.

.

sort of .

I just

.

. they

stayed for awhile you know .
this guys off work,
(unintelligible) his son, his daughter and his wife and
ah, what he alls going to do, he's going back to Yugoslavia
. . . (Pause here while GEORGE is taking care of a
customer)

And ah then, I was justa nothing resting, I really wanted
to go (unintelligible) had a good time, great time.
For
instance . . .
and for the ah . . . what the hell was I
saying . . . yeah, I stopped today for the ah, for the,
where the hell I stop in there . . . Clawson Lounge,
Clawson RCA . . . RCA?
Ha huh
All kinds

of short waves or whatever you know?

Yeah.
Was it I

found,

that is

I use a straight wire.

Uh huh
Or use ah,

That's what I told you.

Or put it,

Yeah,

put it on a pole

if you can .

.'.

I talked to our old friend the other day.

Oh who is?
KIRK

G.

-3--

Yeah.
He says you're, you're going back to ah the old
country . . . course KIRK talking in his cups again.
He

.

.

.

he's a funny guy.

Apologie in there to (unintelligible) . . . operation
o
o
70 years old . . . he tell me ever time it
changed the world . . . (unintelligible)
V.

Arthritis?

(Pause while GEORGE takes care of customer)

G.

I'm going to tell you situations . . . or whatever . .
how much you want me for, forrthe longest time I keep
your radio I will give you whatGVer, you know, your
money you wants me give you, you know, because my
-relatives are going go in Europe, and really, by this

present time I'll give you some money, you know,
OK,

Even

when?

tomorrow,

even tomorrow,

radio and I give you .

.

I going to give your

the

.

No you can hold onto the radio,

hell, what the hell.

No really.
I think three hundred is a fair price.
Pardon me.

Three hundred's fair
That's sounds good,

it's good_price.

But if you don't want it, you know, say so, you won't
That's up to you to decide.
embarrass me.
That's right, I was opening the shell and I never
saw nothing like that . . .
The Army has them
Hell of a piece of equipment, yeah.
What the hell .
made to specs that are unbelieveable.
the other night you're were kinda late, you know, it was
kinda late when I was talking to you . . . a hundred
thousand . . . cash . . .

Cash on line, and if you don't believe, I get it my
house, any kinda way to want it.
I don't care what

way you want it, he'll do it cause if

(unintelligible)

What's he in for?
Huh?

What's he in for?
What's he in for?
G.

He's a .

V.

What's ZEF?

.

.

What's he in for

He killed three niggers .

.

.

(unintelligible)

.

.

.

they robbed his place and they came
about two - three o'clock .
restaurant

Is that .
downtown?

.

.

.

.

. that's not that one dOWn on Woodward
(unintelligible)

That's the one.
Oh really?
to

(unintelligible)

An shit

.

.

.

I never did hear what happened

that

Because

a

.

There was a big thing on it when it happened .

.

ah that.

o

They were changing the things one day said this, one day
said this and it was all badly abused, you know . . . that
day it was my house, and I said, he told me it's somebody
he knows

and he,

told,

and he,

you know,

that guy,

that

guy, he picked him up in house, he didn't tie him up,
they know each other for many years, you know he didn't tie
him up and he was out of jail . . . something like this he
I always said they told him, you know, eh he
told me.
don't going to be in jail for shooting . . . you (unintelligible)
they said they found him dead, there's no fucking dope,
cause I been there you know he never sold dope, never in his
He had lot of pushers there, all time, (unintelligible)
life.

-5-

Where was that place?'

'

It was on Woodward somewhere.

Yeah, near Clairmont.

Clairmont?
G.

Clairmont.

(Interruption ~ Routine bar talk)

G.

So . . . (unintelligible) . . . says to him, you know,
he says ah, we think you found some guns, and he said
no, he says ah, (unintelligible) he says stupid, you
know, (unintelligible) . . . cause my mother's cousin,

my mother's, my mother had ah, had a brother, you know,
so her father and that guy's
All

father they are brothers.

Albanian?

Albanian.

I got to thinking bout that, you know, after . . . it
was late at night and I'm thinking Shit
goddamn,
you setting me up, or what, you know.
No way, no way man.
Us Albanians, we dcn't, (unintelligible)
there's no way man.
I am nothing like this, you know,
the guy, he is . .
he's there.
You know, after I
mentioned to you, that guy, his daughter (unintelligible)
used to own Airport Limousine.

Who

.

.

oh Airport Limousine .

.

.

yeah.

. . he had a
There is the one . . . (unintelligible)
talk with him and he told me, says, promised him he would
be . . . six months . . . that son of a bitch it was not
even

four weeks after that he was dead in his house.

Dead

from what?

with Albanians,

I

don't know if I want to screw around

you guys are crazy.

No . . . no . . . no . . . this guy did die . . . you
know, he used to work for Jimmy Hoffa, he used to be his
secretary, he used to own the Airport Limousine Service
Yeah,

I know the AirpOrt Limousine Service

Well that .

.

.

That was a Hoffa connected thing

Yeah well he, he got shot in his bed.
After he left
(unintelligible) his wife told me that (unintelligible)

You mean Hoffa got shot in his bed?
No .

.

.

his secretary.

His secretary.

His secretary
His secretary's a guy though.

That's right
And he
He,

Oh

.

he,

.'.

.
he,

.

it's a guy,

oh yeah

whatid he do with Airport Limousine.
used to own Airport Limousine.

and he got shot after that

Oh yeah.
We don't work that see,
let alone . . .

I work drugs

and

that stuff,

Yeah he did.
Keep track of

.

.

He shoot . . . 64
(unintelligible)

(unintelligible)

this son of a bitch

You mean he got shot?
Shot him dead,

four times.

Who?

1 they say, he got shot and nobody know, they never
Nobody Said anymore after
mentioned him anymore, never.
the (unintelligible).
She work, she make it from M-Ss
by cemetary there, you know

_7..

I don't know that area that well.

That's Pontiac.

Yeah,

I know Pontiac.

M-59 goes through Pontiac

'Cemetary there, you know, on top of the
Oh, it's right down, oh, as you come in from a, OK,
I know where the Airport Limousine Service is, yeah,
they used to have a garage there.
Add they change it now,
Orion now.

she she bought a place Lake

(Pause while GEORGE take care of Customer)
G.

Anything .

V.

No I just .

.

.
.

if I,

if I go .

.

.

eh .

.

.

.

If I know something .

KIRK said
This month
KIRK said possible you're going,
a shit .

I don't really give

No, my mother and my dad are going,
for good.
V.

my dad are going

Yeah.

For good.
If by any chance if I'm do have to go them
in July, and if I have to go in July, then I'll know
if they want to come back and I will do one thing . .
I'll bring even here the radio, cause (unintelligible),

I bring here the radio, I give it with DENNIS, I give
it to JOHN,.(unintelligible) before it comes to this
you nothing is going to happen to it and I'll call you
in a (unintelligible) something happens (unintelligible)
Well,

you‘re going back,

aren't you?

 Oh yeah.
What a

.

Oh yeah.

Oh yeah.
.

.

can you go back and forth over there?

Oh yeah.

I thought there was some shit over there that you
can't go . . .
'
'
‘Ah,

no,

ah my dad, my dad

(unintelligible)

No with you, but I understand alot of people can‘t go
back into there

That's right . .
well, my brother finished military
and my sister_husband, he is the, for 25 years working
fOr Government, for Communist Government, and he he has
a job, he is over telephone and telegraph.
The post
. office, the telephone, the telegraph, thats all the one.
Yeah.

It's not like here,

you know.

Here‘s it's a private industry it's there it's all
Government

One
And
job
me,

thing (unintelligible) and ah, he's he's over that.
ah, heLs over that, one (unintelligible) he had a
with the Communist, but anyway, they don't bother
I just shut up.
I don't say another godamn word.

Yeah

You don't say another word, and if we have a house there
and stuff like that, you know, what you going to do, you
One thing was great there . . . most
.have no choice.
people (unintelligible) like-a dollar was 2000 (unintelligible
regarding value of the dollar against Yugoslavian currency
You cannot find a kilo coffee today
and Government).
100 bucks, buy kilo coffee.
‘7

You can't.find it?

 ._9...

You cannot find ah white flour, American flour to make
a food for.a hundred bucks a pound, you cannot find
it.
The Russian pumpernickel, some (unintelligible)
they changed it.
You die, that's why JIMMY CARTER

is going next week there.

'

”

JIMMY CARTER's going there?

Yugoslavia or to

(unintelligible)

Lotsa money.

That's

it, that's what happened.
So, so in the case of
something, or you know, if you wanna be
Well, I'm thinking, thinking about this other thing,
you're talking what, a hundred thousand
One hundred thousand dollars cash and besides that I'll
guarantee you you'll get a biggest present of any,
you ever had in your life.
I don't give a shit what you
got there, because I know the people.
We are people that
live like in native country, know what I mean, who are no
no no shit, you know, really
each but six hundred
(unintelligible) . .
hundred and some thousand dollars
. . . man says whoever do the job, get the money (sent
(unintelligible) . . . either he going to die there, do
the job and get the money
What about the a,
courts?
Appeals,

what about going at it through the
you know, and that

Judge ROBERSON, assholes, assholes (unintelligible) . .
you know what they want, just to get him out of there,
cause, you know, just to get him out of there cause they
have ways (unintelligible) just to get him out of there.
OK,

assume we

.

.

.

(Unintelligible) a person has somebody (unintelligible)
he wants to get out of jail or something OK, soon as
they transport someplace . . . setting us up, you know
what I mean,

some shit,

you know.

You mean transport him from the prison to ah,
Something
Yeah

like this,

but mental,

mental,

something

 —10_

You know, but when you go, so some guy
I slipped, you know, fall asleep or
Yeah but this is a

.

.

(unintelligible)

.

three murders, they're going
to watch him like a godamn hawk.
That's the only
problem.
Yeah, but he has the best record.
One of the best records
out at Jackson four years.
You know they allowed him?
Talk out to his parents two - three times a week.
I'm
talking about two — three times on telephone.

Where are his parents?

Jackson

Where are his parents though?
In Detroit.
Oh,

they're they're
\

Also, he had a TV, he has all kind things,
kinds . . . (unintelligible)

he gets all

You can get anything if you have money.
Yeah.
What's

.

.

don't know,

.

you know I could come down there,
this things getting kinda deep.

and,

I

You know something
Hundred

thousand is good.

That's no bullshit
I know, no bullshit, but what do I use for a front?
Huh?
Are they
Vhat do I use for a front to talk to people.
going to drop some money out in front?
G.

I don't understand.

V.

Put some front money up.

G.

It doesn't work that way.

Five,

ten thousand out in front.

 -ll-

'

V.

You got to talk to people though.

G.

(Unintelligible) I know, I know, I know, I didn't
realize that, the guy says he does, you know, people

that promised him, you know, he going through the
court, nothing like that.
Eh, shit, nothing happened . .
nothing happened.
So he said then just, I have to find
somebody, give him money and get the job (unintelligible)
hundred thousand,

whatever he want,

he wants,

here

.

.

.

V.

Yeah, but the problem is getting it after it's done.
Say the act's done, son of a bitch is out of the country,
you know I'm a Federal agent, I've about twenty years,
you know that.
I've got twenty years on this job.

G.

Twenty years,

yes.

(Interruption — Routine_b§r talk)
G.

So that's how it is,

V.

Yeah,

it is crazy,

guarantee,

you know

but I got to have some godamn

number one,

I got a partner

a partner I work with,
I make
G.

Huh.

V.

A partner.
know

.

(Unintelligible

.

V.

Hang up there .

.

.

.

I have

he knows every godamed move

He's an ex-Chicago policeman,

G.

weekends

.

.

.

uh,

you

they don't know if .

.(waitress brings VAN HENGEL coffee)

You know we're both .
G.

crazy

.

.

These people, four negroes, they come in restaurant,
baseball bats and knifes (unintelligible) I don't know,
I'm sure they looking for something you know, 45 minutes,
after 45 minutes he called the cops, the Detroit Police
This not . . .
show up.

V.

Vhen'd this happen.

G.

That night.

V.

Huh?

G.

That night.

 VO

G.

Oh,

that night.

That night.
Do you believe that stuff.
Add this guy,
I think it's crazy, he he's going, he said he's going
lay off six hundren policemen, or whatever, you know.
Who the hell gonna control the god damn city?
Something
something . . . I'm really glad on Woodward this
(unintelligible) people, they are nuts.
I'm interested in what you're talking, that's why I
wanted to get in here early to talk to you, but .
You know something?

or I could be setting you

Either you're setting me up,
up . . .
no,
No,

No, no, no, no,
misunderstand.

. .
no,

. nothing like this.
know something?

Don‘t

I‘ve got twanty years.

You
You know something, I'm not stupid, you know.
We all are from families,
know what I‘m talking about.
nobody says nothing.
Yeah,

but I'm not part of

Albanians,

No,

no,

no,

family

and you're one of them.

don't give a shit,

delivery .

the

.

.
no

and what‘s

so we deliver,

the,

.

.

.

those god damn

They kill cops,

they

the thing of

what's

and boom.

(unintelligible)

I'm not about to go down there looking for a hundred
thousand. . .

Only one man you deal with would be
JOE,

his father,

(unintelligible), me,

nobody else involved.

Nobody.

I know

what I'm talking about, and because JOE would talk to him,
ZEF, you
his dad, gonna give nobody the money anyway.
know, give away his money real well, and the only thing we
do . . .

Or something .

ZEF'S the guy that's in?

He's 39 years old now .
know yourself,

if you

.

.

.

(unintelligible).

raise kids

today,

.

. you

10 years old,

a,
ic
er
Am
in
er
th
fa
no
th
wi
ed
is
ra
be
ey
th
,
15
,
14
16,
That's a crazy, I mean, really
know that is?

you

 _l3_

V.

Albanians don't like blacks,

G.

No,

V.

You sure you don't want .

G.

No,

do they?

not to well

no way

.

.

.

.

.

you know what we,

You can never saw it,

you how We know.

you can go all over United States,

never can find a black got a decent place, nice place,
where enjoy yourself, I never heard.
I never heard.
No I never heard.

V.

How long you been in the United States?

G.

Ten years.

V.

1967 you used to be able to go to the Flame Show Bar
downtown, all black run, those bars that ran down there
and the best acts would come in there that's before the
riots.
We're talking about 60, 61 and sure they were
catering to the white man, but you used to be able to
go in there and if you minded your business, they minded
there's and it was good.
There was . . .

(Interruption -

Routine bar talk)

G.

You hear that?

V.

Barely read and write,

G.

Huh?

V.

Some of them can barely read and write

G.

They can't read and write,

V.

What don't you join the army.

G.

Huh

V.

Why don't you join the army.

G.

some of

them .

.

.

some of them .

.

.

To late for me.
Thirty—seven years old . . . too late.
You know something?
So many people, for so many men, for
some of things Army make people human,.you know and ab.
They make a person so live, make person something to
.be anyway.
Really.
You get out of the school, you
become 22 years, dumb then, I mean dumb, really, really,
really what you gonna do, you know.

 _l4_

You go to school in Albania?

Oh yeah .

.

. you have to, you have to learn how to

read and write and language

.

.

.

(unintelligible)

You're English is good
What?

Did you learn English there or here?
G.

Here.

(Interruption — Routine bar talk)
V.

Before blabber mouth gets back here, ah, gonna need
a couple of weeks just to even think on it.
You're
talking some shit though.

G.

Listen.
First we die and all our life for something
like this . . . I'm telling you.

V.

Yeah,

G.

Listen no, listen no, don't give me no (unintelligible)
I'm not stupid you know, (unintelligible) the family
still live in the eighteenth century like, they say they
no change, I mean they say and that's all.
I want

I know,

but

I'm .

.

.

with you to know something, you plan something,
one day (unintelligible)
V.

I give him a little test run,

so,

we go

just move him around

a little bit and show_you what we can do,

but I'm gonna

need some assurance from you oeople before we do something

dumb like that.

'

G.

No, no doubt about it.

V.

Do twenty years.

G.

Oh,

V.

Probably that on the other side, me and ZEF,

I know that.

(Interrupti9n_— Routine bar talk)
V.

GEORGE.

I didn't want

to

talk with her around

together.

 G.

No.

She can hear too god damn much.

G.

It is simple if no one knows

V.

Yeah.
Give me a couple weeks,
research

.

.

.

just for a little

'You know something.
You're gonna have
I do . . .

to meet my partner,

cause anything

No, no, no listen.
I tell you something, OK, on my
word, you know, my word that I'm telling you the truth
and whatever can meet you want to meet, whatever . . .
Well,

I'm gonna want some assurance.

I know.
Anything, anything, any kinda assurance,
do you need, any kinda insurance it's possible to give
anyone this way, you know,_any way, we give it.
(Unintelligible) we want the guy out, is all.
Pay the
money . . .
What you going to do with him when you get him out?

We're going to leave him this country.
No body gonna,
nobody gonna expects he going be in old country.
As long as they can do nothing about
That's for sure.
No
it, you know what I mean . . . (unintelligible)
way .

I bring my partner in here,
Don't say

No,

no,

don't tell him any price.

a hundred thousand,

no,

no

.

.

nothing.

.

You can ta k to him

Nothing, nothing
He's ex—Chicago policeman,

he's ah,

I dOn't know about

He's
him, but when I move, he's with me all the time.
I don't want him to know how much.
gonna have to know.
You know we all got a little game to play.

Don't say nothing to.
V.

OK.
guy.

Let me, let me take a look at the
Couple weeks.
I got that piece of paper you wrote the name on.

 _l6_

G.

OK.
You know something?
And he was not really bad
guy, because after he knew he did it because they
were niggers (unintelligible).
Even, even the,

even the judge and jury (unintelligible) Judge ROBERSON‘s
brother,

I know he he professor,

you know,

he's a

professor in Wayne University.
I think, and he told,
the other lawyer, this guy told him, he's (unintelligible)
the black guy, he's a lawyer now he is, he says
(unintelligible).
He say it never could happen, he
since 1967,

say,

one black man can shoot three blacks

at one time.
V.

Hmmm

G.

And the one when he told em,
And he was pissed off.
they told him, that if went down, they said the
(unintelligible) took 45 minutes after when they called .
They were
police came . . . you can't imagine that.
not that

far,

god damn it

they

could have

come

.

.

.

.

from

Fourty—five minutes, I mean, no
Flint to Detroit.
Even if there
trouble they could go, you know, I mean.
was something danger, not from a, not from a, from thir .
from eleventh precinct, even from Davison, eleventh
Even from second precinct, downtown, on
precinct.
Beaubian, you know, they could go . . . so many kind
police, at least five minutes . . . Detroit police came
in, (unintelligible)

V.

Why he, why'd he shoot them?

G.

Because they came at him with baseball . . . baseball
bats and knifes and they caught him in the office . .
what are you going to do.

.

V.

Hm‘am .

G.

I mean, what are you going
What are you going to do.
He couldn't go in the basement, he couldn't
to do.
So he had under the counter, he had a the, the
move.
the, the a what do you call it, this shit man, the, the,
double barreled, you know, shot gun.

V.

Oh,

G.

ey
th
,
ys
gu
r
he
ot
e
Th
.
om
Bo
.
em
th
of
t
ou
ck
fu
e
Shot th
ot
sh
he
a
d
an
,
ns
gu
r
ei
th
ok
to
d
an
m,
hi
s
rd
wa
turned to
t
ou
ab
d
ha
y
gu
ch
ea
wn
do
ll
fa
ey
th
s,
them two or three time
ll
ki
t,
oo
sh
he
If
n.
ma
dy
bo
g
in
ck
fu
r
ei
th
in
s
ten bullet
th
ur
fo
e
th
d,
ze
li
ra
pa
or
e,
iv
al
s
wa
k
in
One of them I th
em.
I
do
n
ca
r
ve
ne
,
lk
wa
n
ca
r
ve
ne
he
,
guy . . . all his life

shot gun.

nothing,

but he didn't see ZEF kill him.

Do you believe that?