. . 1 Aulhurlty 0 Series of ialks b1 lanford Griffith. for-021: leJor In!- In M80 0! luv-Section 0-2 Prisoners and Domts I Prepared for mm) SCHOOL, Ian Antonio, lens, April 20, 1942 I will In these two discussions we will study! I. i'he place of interviewing. in research. II. Interrogating and interviewing in relation to am Intelligence. Inte iew 0 Asking direct questions is ordinarily the best and quiet.? t? get answers. rhz. should be axionatic. but it 1- takins us lone til- to recognise it. In: of us beat about the bush in twins to s? an answer which a direct questions would have sufficed, and imagine that we are being clever. Tor examole, I recall at the low York Vorld'l 7111? In erudite professor who worried for sonths over formulating indirect due-?10? to disclose peOples' incomes. We found it such simpler to ask the! direct- Over 90$ told us. We assuled that about one in 10 over-stated and one under stated. But then answers averaged out accurately enough for all practical purposes. In interrogating Ger-nan prisoners, we devote lost of our study to dirth interviewing because time will be short, and three?fourths of our results will cone from our asking of direct questions. This goes for German prisoners?41 asked right. Is answer for a. number of reasons. Most of these, however. boil down to interest in ourselns, our liking of others? interest in ourselves, a desire to show how much we know, and our desire to please. i'hen there is the sent-renew. habit of Just talking . Our problem is to stimulate this urge to answer our questions. Starting with easy routine chatter, we not generate a. momentum in the answering until we get a flow of intonation. The net product is answers - information about ens-y intentions, troop mechanical detail, and anything - everything about conditions around us. 2222;: sassiigas. interrogating and imagine that. vdiile Let us not be superior about this ms, we are all closenouthed our- we are able to get things out of the Ge selves. Bu truth is that we are susceptible to the sane kinds of per- smsion and pressure. he Ger-ans will learn plenty. Ve sust accuse that they will ferret out and study were to exploit our weaknesses. But I do not believe that the: are operating as effectively in this field as we can, if we exploy the full range of techniques. developed in research, and that we are alan using in social and coueroial fields. housing science, sainl: worked out in detail (1) Interviewing is by is analysing for 30 years and sore by and W?dmll. (2) hr some so years it has been increasingly applied to social fields. such so the study of ton and factory conditions. (3) In the measure of political opinion. interviewing has boos developed Gallup and several others, including ourselves. his opinion polling work we Inuisgtheweedsintem. Hefthebeet inbegimssvelutarily. aetheresslt of Mosul - I.th the internal?. we dun-mun.- alhus?xjosc II. Authority 7:301 two maxi-1" m? mm curs-o be local or no questions 13mm", ?in? ?IP?-Oinc several silple yes and inten??.t1?; are of less interest to us in the "new 0 Prisoners. If and when we got a large amber of prisoners our mm ?101:- Political attitudes will b. of value in no?. in 1 and in activities toward a post war Iuropo. l'or our assign- our information_ 1' ?11. tip. which gives us lost of Ema-1 .Pplications of intensive interviewing, I night or two: to?: th? hendled by aw organisation in the last year program. for bn? th' Pun-10'! preferences and degree of interest in radio world? In - :?m5lt1n? commie" attendance analyses at the New York the Hall ofrin ncluding Questions about everything ?03,1. cm to drinking h?bnventione to the strip tease side?shows; children's milk- Ione . '0 mt?: PhO?OSr?phio interests of different age groups; 11 I preferences for colors and smells over others; the public's attitud. toward n?n?p?liu during the Monopoly Investigations in 1938; and. since the outbreak of World War II, a wide range of political surveys, mnly ??n??mins attitudes toward the belligerente, isolationism, opinions ?n 730? measures for U.S. defense, and on the best ways to defeat the Axis. The above range, of course, includes more techniques than we need to use in interviewing prisoners for battle-order intonation. At the same time, these new techniques permit us to push our interviewing much further with present day prisoners than during Iorld Var I. We can get more data and get it more efficiently. We can reduce our margins of error due to personal shortcomings. We can standardize our questionnaires in further fields. We can make a much fuller claesification of our results. We can make more correlations and, very important, we can get the results out in much faster than in the old days. A tine?saver on routine data will be tabulating, card punching, and sorting the cards through Hollerith machines. i'hus on receipt of each new batch of prisoners we will be able to correlate data with that on old prisoners and have the results available for the staff. For ample, and: factional and statistical reports such as personal and unit identification, statistical data on unit strength and quantities of supplie s, can be treated in an entirely routine m, card punched, sorted and correlated with provioua data and with results available to the Staff within a couple of hours. !his is ilportant because may of these correlations were not available in World Var I and many others came too late to be of use in current operations. Into?m and An. lost comoroial interviewing and probably 7 of ours in the Au: falls into the category of science. 'i'here renins 25% which must be regarded as an art. The unusual prisoner will require the unusual interviewer and delicate handling. lven then if the tile is short, this additional infatuation will mostly be lost. Dot if tine perni to and if the prisoner has iaportant information, the interviewer can prolong his interview and latch wits to coax it out of bin. It frequently pays to provide congenial softening surroundings which facilit ate this work. (Stool-pigeon techniques and special prison surroundings should be provided). At least 90? of infer-nation about the essay in this Var will eons tr- the direct interviewing of prisoners and free a stud: of new doc-oats picked up on the battle field. Istintes in lorld Var I went so high as 805 for inforeatios free these sense. he proportion should to la:- et present been?: interviewing techniques have been mpg-eves; 3) this total world war other outset with the essay, sash as through neutral countries and indiroot oe-co'ial relations. have been rodmod to a tow threads. ibis isth of ordinary as: travel Dotson sad aeatral entries provided the .Jer mi .3 intonation. use; ofierldh 3. We! theva ?loot espieaogo Monti. mum 1330 -2- DECLASSIFIED Authority i thortege is no serious loss. 11 m. this is a great opportu- ?01113.n- officere. 'e a1- will have a continuous direct m1 pmiotufmtut with the Germans. He will thus be best placed Oemn conditions, generally. It is also a great opportunity um ?can? ?f our work. 1t well done, can be translated directly into ?r31: '71? lives ami into destruction of the sunny. 10 research in greater service than this interrogation of prisoners. Inn?. int'rmcation usignlent is also a great responsibility. While '0 7? Iwhen to the best sources of infomtion, it depends on our seal ?bu-1V 8! individual interviewers to dig out the information and. to set it 1n usable for- to the Comander. lo book of rules nor instruction can get around the sisple fact that the result will only be as valuable as ?5.17103110- interviewer nakss it. Our seizing effective contacts with the Pri'mnr': Wins the right questions, being careful in recording our answers. the? Winning the information effectively are all essential links in this chain. We a; 9.1% 9; interviewigg. How does interviewing priwn'rs with the work of a reporter. a salemn. and of a police sergeant three people who ask plenty of questions? The Job of the intelligence officer at the front comes closest to that of a newspaper reporter. The reporter gets an assign-ant from his city 0?11?? to cover a fire or a. murder. l'requently he gets a slant on what to look for. He is expected to get the facts, and to shoot then back fast to the City Desk. The reporter is held personally responsible for the accuracy of his reporting. All this applies to intelligence officers in interviewing prisoners. Our Job differs, however, from that of the reporter in that we are not expected to dramtise nor to build up our stories. Also, on essential identi- fications we are expected to follow a well?defined procedure. While ours is not to romanticise, we must present our story with cleraty and forcefully. A news sense helps us in both timing and emphasis. The salenan is nore handicapped than the reporter because, in addition to getting his prospect to talk, he must persuade him to listen. Furthermore, he must persuade him to hand over his money. 'lhis is tong. We have not this hard task and do not need. to and cannot spend the some amount of time on our prospect as does a salessan. In getting a prisoner to talk, we have a decided advantage over both the reporter and the salesman. We, in common with the police sergeant, actually have physical custody of our sen. Re is our prisoner, and we dictate the surroundings and timing of the interrogation. We should exploit this advantage to the linit to get as full and fast a story as we can. is fer as the prisoner is concerned, we are the 'Yoice of Authority'. police sergeant, if he uses elm-fashioned. police nethode. thunps the table, and occasionally the culprit. 'e can do table thulping too if we . cheese, but we have a handicap he has not. She police sergeant is also the voice of he ml Order. le sen cohort the law violator to repeat and to ad. citises. Int to the Gem prisoner, we are the ?Vote or bee-es guhetslke to us. he caneven boast of his aehievuents inhupis? Also,?th silitsn'ooho his ?are is, however. see-panting teeter forushieh leeks. Ieptthe unammuiw . unselecteupsuss?? mums-.mm entire hesieesterespeet?eeiw. . (L DECLASSIFIED Authority 3'23: create this illusion of the transfer of authority to us. Us also ?1 0 decided advantage. If we cannot win our prospect by frisndlino". 30 can use pressure. But friendly. inforaal handling is quickest and ?lle Opens lore fields of infomtion. 20 3-19. Fa luv: W. How can you get people to answer 10 to questions consecutively? rhi- i. usually all we would be asking. the reticu- 11?? 1' much further off than you would inagine. I have repeatch tut? endm'ancs of the interviewed, and an impressed Iyself at how much the? "111 ?km 1 ha" ?lied up to 100 questions. taking 40 ninutes to get answers and at a? 101.19?. (,oofiest Place in the world to ask then at a State fair at Trenton. l-J- If your personal approach is right, and if people are interested in the subject. they usually wech an invitation to talk. Incidentally. contrary to belief, husinese executives are more willing to [pond tine in answering a serious questionnaire than are small people. may themselves are more accustomed to giving an getting information. This will apply to educated Ger-sans and to German officers in spite of restrictions against the: talking. Quanti- tativer we will do best with the non-cons. We will find that we will get better information from the higher-ups than from the rank-and?file. A. prelini- nary condition with officers will be more careful planning of the kind of atmosphere which will stiamlate then to talk. mammogmamditi . Although I have set up a wide variety of questionnaires and have interviewed mmarous Nazis, all this is no substitute for ore?tests of all of our questionnaires based on actual interview- ing of prisoners under war conditions. No amount of ~arevious experience can serve as a substitute. This means that we should have access to a large variety of interviews of Gaman prisoners already made in this war. We must also inturview morons Ger-ans first-hand ourselves. Such experience will inevitably alter any questionnaire we set up in adVence. Us should also alter it to fit into our information needs in a given operatibn. There is, however, basic identification data which can be used in a. routine way in alnost all questionnaires. 1111mm foremost. It is important that our study in the field be anchored to actual nilitary use. The field which interviewers' contacts with the Gerian Amy and civilian population will soon in theoretical research, in peycholog, sociology, and in a variety of political fields is tremendous. there will be constant temptations to get off into theoretical research or into less important side?paths. i'here will also be a. temptation to shift into a terminology uhich is not readily understood by the soldier who has not specialised in. this type of research. Our work is of no value unless it is in a readily intelligble fora for the staff. This is why in each step of the work it is well for the research people to keep in close collaboration with experienced soldiers who will advise the best practical application of the inter- view material. Also. in the field, pressure of tile will frequently be such that adaptability and agility in work under a variety of difficult conditions will be sore {mm than a heavy baggage of theory and elaborate classifications. 32;; m. In this work, we interviewers should not set out to prove any geconceived theory - neither our own nor that of anybody else. Is should ask the questions. get the facts, correlate then, and. than on. eeaclusions. As this Var gets tough for us. and the Geraans give us a mu of total wal, our attitudes toward the Germans are bound to get sore hostile and notional. 'au Ger-ans ars baby killers?: ?the lasi naming 1. nu, ?ma; Iron m't believe a word they Geraass tabs no prisoners?, ad so on. ladivihals in an an are as susceptible to extras opinions at national attitudes as anybody else. the M, hiaself. uy he's veq aim Woes. his pats an added responsibility on as interviewers to get tb M. .1 t. hop the. well in view. in intelligence effieer she lets lineal! be ?waWofsetpremesmmler-sismmhie? Inseam. at?. and as objectively as possible. DECLASSIFIED I NND 873m Authority Series of falks Griffith. formerly lad Inf. In Charge of Bub-Section 0?2 Prisoners and Docunents I Arly DISCUSSIOI -- SOME M21 WSSES '10 m1: Among exoloitable Ger-an attitudes and weaknesses, we include: (1) vanity. (2) venality, (3) lack of broad basic education, (4) eon-?11mmt lack of sense of preportion. (5) the school teacher urge. (6) on slogans rather than on solid study, (7) a quiz enthusiael. (8) 0701'b bereaucratisation, (9) gangster mentality of leaders. (10) Illi- W10- stander1 1 ds. (ll) widespread superstitions, (12) craving of outside recog- on. Ithis brief enuneration of some exploitable attitudes should not be accepted as leading to any general conclusion of lasi weakness. In fut they are still going strong. The purpose of this study is to ?Pun? simply some known German and Nazi weaknesses open to '1 0?3 Intelligence peopleare too inclined to look at the succes- sion of Nasi victories and to accept Nazi propaganda pretentious of Nazi military olniscience at their face value. 'l?here is no doubt that Ger-an hiymr strategy in this war has been remarkable. It is a temptation of the newspaper reporter particularly when convenient propaganda is avails)?? to interpret luck and hindsight as careful planning and foresiglt. Tor example, we should not overlook the fact that much of Germany?s emphasis on modern weapons was imposed by the arma restrictions of Versailes on construction of the old ones. One's own weaknesses can be made to appear nilitency prowess of the enemy. Witness the collapse of Trance. Chance plays a large part in military success and failure. Granted that Ger-nay has command of highly qualified professional soldiers, there are but some 33,000 out of 210,000 officers or about 1 in 7. Also they are mostly in the higher ranks and are not those we will often encounter and interview. when we get into the ranks of the reserve officers we will find plenty of weaknesses to expose and to exploit. l. W. here is a colossal amount of vanity, self adulation, and noisy boasting in lasi circles. All the way down through the Party, the elnlate Big loise Hitler. Little thugs like to think of themselves and to make a noise as big-shots. Probably few Iasi big-shots will was into our net. But sole of the snaller fry will seek to impress us that they are big-shots. ls should give than all the encouragement in this tint vs can. fhey have information about relations between the Basi Peru and law we can well use. If it tickles their ego to show us how 11130th as officials they are and how such they know, why not? Some of this vanity will have been translated into daring and hardihood. But much of it should be chalked up as hot air. Sons of it is downridst neurotic. Allost the last refuge of weakness and lack of self-confidence is bravado. It is co-on for a group dubious of their position to bolster one another up with hurrahs. But this is mt the present interpretation we should lake. ls mt resogii that the lasis are arrogant mainly because they are sum and because as have virtually achieved Hitler's initial objective - the conquest of Iorops. Vs Inst. therefore. recognise this phase of lasi pi.- as sainly due to mm hurls-mm In. Ayn-hm new a ?radiation of the assertion 'I'd rather die thaabs septa-e0. or of the elishs lasi assertion of readiness 'te die for the W. Museum of vol-teen for saisids suede is null. lapses of ssisidsudsrrolantissme-Aim? lera?irls mun; mus Dottie unit. Add). a? mummy 3 ?3 4 n; DECLASSLFIED 'i NM) 3730'? lo-atie bravado is in aodern seehanised warfare. Also daring and We are at their lowest ebb in a var prisoner. Soldiers she boast of their ruthless for hero's death before battle, are usually sufficiently sham after facing death during the fight, to be relieved at being alive ll Prisoners. In long experience, I only encountered one or two prisoners she hi? 3 "DIV?book hero's attitude after heavy fighting and after our pre? 1?n60d grilling interrogation. the state of being hung, dirty, and exhausted 13" 8 d?l?pressing, deflating effect on anybody, and particularly on a soldier. A fee of the. sill be active defeatists who planned in advance to raise a break and get ave; on the first opportunity. rhey have usually a bin? srionnce aginst the lasi system and are ready to talk. then there If. passive defeatists she surrender, such as they sent into battle, because it is the course of least resistance at the tile. loch prisoners are fairly Gooberative because it continues to be their path of least resistance. But they are usually rather apathetic and poor observers. Host of the prisoners, whether they adnit it or not. are ?lum being alive, intact, and out of the fight. It is this brief period of complete physical and emotional let-down that we mt exploit to th. It is this moment, too, that Gem go to the lost trouble to condition troops against. In urea to make a Ihov of intellectual superiority and good taste goes in the German draw as well as in the world outside. for example, in our on daily home life peoples' actual reading is on a lower level than what we usually admit publicly. his is why a check on nagsaines thrown out at the back door discloses lastly Red Book, true Story and Liberty Magazine, mile people prefer to pretend that Bax-pars, the Atlantic and the Iational Geographic go in at the front door. Such harmless little vanities lend themselves to easy exploitation. no Ger-ans are afflicted with this sort of harmless vanity. This is particularly true of the self-trained small nan. Let him feel that we regard hie as a great man in his ?eld, and we will be amply rewarded. Let him get off on his special knowledge, md he will go to great to show us how nah he knows. The Genus have their full quota of amateur strategists who know all the answers, and who likes to show off even to the enemy. 2. Nazi venality deserves special study because it is one of the most brazen affronts to all idealism and is a weakness that we must exploit to the liait. Ihere was never a Germ regiae which indulged in graft or. the scale of the Nazi bureaucracy. Berchteegaden and Karinshall are noun.- aents to it. be higher Party officials have all had a hand, or rather both hands, in the hole loot. Gearing, with his feudal palaces and hunting lodges, has made German into one large game preserve. libbentrop has gone in for chateaus and objects d'ert, contributed by "adnirers' or stolen in the course of his liquidating political enelies. Goebbels, not to be outdone, has 'ae?uired' a. half dozen palaces, plus an assortment of lovenests. taller Party officials have ears lode-t1: grabbed soft but sell-paid industrial Jobs, profitable concessions, and accepted costly gifts from business concerns. this gangster cashing-in even goes dean into the younger generation rarty ushers. ?ier gossip about the fat living of their chiefs, but less with reth than with envy and in anticipation of cutting into the pie thsaeelm as soon as they came into pom. We should collect typical and perm thee particularly to the Ger-en soldiers who are alres? rebelling at the disoriainatow inside their on ranks. 8. 31mm. ?elasiyridethuaelmeahaee- is. assure. tabs mmumrm re . isath-iviaglasisleseistebq nee .?Mrw?mbitwnw a arr-Wu. DECLASSIFIED 1 Authority I his lack of knowlee?e relates particularly to world affairs. lhe Ger-ans we a great to-do about their knowledge of lith their resale-r l-l'w and older university people this pride is Justified. lore m? put on geography ad there was sore popular interest in world affairs in Ger-any than in aost countries. But the Is.st propagandists, 9101? distorted this to their own ends. Actull}. silos the Xasis took over they have been fed a kind of roasntic propaganda 80051119? gredicsted on the conception of Genany as the center of the universe and based on the of Fasi superiority and right to rule the world. One exception were the youth and worker tours of various parts of hrope conducted in the three or four years prior to the war. The? homr ?km by but a small fraction of the workers whose stolen insurance funds went to help pay for than. nothing has a noro hollow ring today thin 3?7" 'Strength through Joy? swindle. The war however reduced the German poOPJ-u knowledge of the outside world to Rani propaganda. The Ger-ans are badly informed, worse informed than they were in World Var I. this is a weakness that will become increasingly. evident when the Kari morale curve has begun to decline, and is one we must exploit to the utnost. The Gemans have not been conditioned to reverses and defeats. Such words have even been stricken from the official unitary and political vocabularies. With no such oreliainary conditioning. how will these laxis take reverses! I believe that they will be eactionally crippled, But so mt draw our conclusions mainly from actual observations in the field. Congeguent Lack of Sings of Proper-?g in Nation. Ii'he older genera- tion of Nazis have travelled very little abroad. They lived for years in the narrow confines of Gorasny and of their own frustrations. They came into power on exaggerations and prepagands. slogans. While Nazi teachers seek to deceive their pupils, they do preliminarily a fair Job of deceiving the-selves. This is a story of the bond salesman who was told. by St. Peter that heaven was too crowded with fellow bond salesmen to get in hilself, and hit upon the idea of telling them that there was a big market for bonds in hell. no idea worked, and in a few moments there were no bond solemn left in heaven, except our friend, waiting at gate to get in. St. Peter stood aside for hire to enter, but instead the bond saleuan turned his back on the pearly gates and dashed off after his colleagues. IWho knows,? he cried, ?there say be something in it after all.? This lack of a true sense of values is lost conspicioue in Nazis an appraisal of Ger-any's chances to win. they actually know very little about American nan-power and or our industrial teatial, and are susceptible to a piling up of facts about our resources, industrial capacity, and our increasing military sight. Giving then glinpses of our size has a useful deflationary effect on the priSoner. 40 School teachers were especially welcome at our 5- WW- littls school at the front and were always along our star pupils. The he was Gems developed a peculiarly virulent toacher-tnowe-best type. mutated to standing up before his class and lecturing by the hour. It was our function to identity ourselves with his knowledge-eager school boys. he would then tell us about thehistory of the area we were fighting over. In?ias our not bowing that this was the ve17 land once ruled by Charlene?, and what a distortion of history not to refer to hia as the great Genoa malarial! And didwoknowabout flu-sand the fmaalong the leselle liver! Vere so asking oar notes in ?orderly This sort leisnot today. lathe podold mess (we, teseher had considerable individuality and prestige. In the - ass lasi those who stated is has slipped into the Iss1 hold and have hes-s am of webbed phonograph for the Party line. His hmities served to trick his into a fallaciess idest cation of Opal-tar- he still has his WM Htme DECLASSIFIED Emmy I there is type of soldier who ought to live in If the spark can be provided to toueh hie off. long es he is challen?ed with emotions. ?11 I- the answer let no I recall one Ger-en urgent. am, from his tnining, should have known better. man he had 51"? dosem Valuable he would wring his hands, only wish I new the never- to more of your questions 9 ?nerons little guessing gene stunts on be trotted out very effectively. 6. W- the niddle of e. qnie gene. he denonetretes hie cleverness no i e. ion meb-vannted leei efficiency ie et its mite-t offices and. new agencies. the Innis shoved. structure of their luv 7. r- in the piling up of new imitation end ability in setting up the broad luropesn Order es en exploitetion 000m. But in execution, the! 11379 loaded down their economy with a multiplicity of ednini strative office regulations and forms. it the start their hungry, nostly unorganized nether: of the lower middle class, demanded. Jobs. new vented to set in? the flesh pots of the bankers end industrieliete. It '38 ?wl creete a. new of? co for new activities rather than fit than into existing services. Also. new offices meant nore Jobs. his use Keri Party phlloeophi' and practice. The coneequent multiplication of of?ces meant noltiplice- tion of paper work. The shortcomings of this sort of expansion are not perticularly noticeehle in an expanding econony, such on the conquest of European countries over the loot six years. But with e. ehbilised or contracting economy, the over-loaded. structure becomes a. uneoing deed reign . ibis deed lead. extends our into the Arty. It is a sore point with the older Arny officers. The older generation recent and. dietrnet this Nazi develop-out. Incidentally, in our interrogation there is no one easier to queen. than physically tinorooe bureaucrat. And, finally, we can play thie ?ele pepemrk close off egainst rent-sand-file Gemn soldiers who ere beginning to understood that they ere the under dogs who are carrying thin deed Mt o! boreencreoy. 9. I . In e. police etete reaching tom into the privacy of the fonily, spies ere everywhere and denunciation flourishes. Children are taught to denounce their perente for lock 0! leei order. At treining coups, the youth learn to doaniee their home life end hecole as loci Oovernent ninister eeidx ?tough, like leather and Krupp steel.? (A plug for troops). Sererol children am parents for lock of Iosi have been saluted no is meeting to the older Ger-ens. he lesi Party eetch the children your; end held on to then until the We then over. he Party provides feneticel political no New We. Inter. they are taught to sink their personel identities in mes in. Le Iinister french: and other lesi politicians put it - the lie-ion e! the Gene: pee?le ie to fight end to die for Hitler, let, in motor tredition, shee not robbing strangers. they are buy et hone ?Niel one mother?s throets for pom. ?gien?tione (Iot 1min) mum-idymeotmrmemtmmuthetmt tombs: ?tie - ui 3 i new