1211 MINUTES COLORADO WATER CONSERVATION BOARD MEETING November 1958 12 Attendance I Board Members Present Stephen L R McNichols Benjamin F Stapleton Jr Felix L Sparks Gov Barnard Jr Duke Dunbar Burr Clarence E F M Peterson Lew Williams Miller David J M W Williams Wm NeLson L S McCandless John B for Chairman Vice Chairman Director Secy Board Member Denver Denver Denver Denver Board Board Board Board Board Board Board Member Walden Member Delta Norwood Member Member Member Member Member Greeley Denver Grd Junction Craig Board Members Absent E Whitten J Christian Wunsch Board Member Board Member Denver La Junta Others Attending Miller Wallace T Thad G Mclaughlin Charles C Fisk Moore Richard L Gordon G Gauss R Moses J H J Knights Sid Nichols J L R Kuiper John L Burritt Tom Gavin Tom Hutton Donald Hamburg Sr Barnard John B I Charles J Beise H H Christy C H Boustead Glenn G Saunders R M Gildersleeve Lee Keating Denver Denver Denver Denver Colo Game Fish Dept Denver Assoc Press Alamo sa Atty for C W C B Denver Bureau of Reclamation Colo Spgs City of Colo Springs Supvr Hyd Engr C W C B Denver Hotchkiss Ute Elec Assoc Colo Denver Rocky Mtn News Denver Denver Post Denver Denver Wafer Board Colo River Water Cons Dist Granby Denver S E Water Cons Dist Dist Pueblo S E Water Cons Pueblo S E Water Cons Dist Denver Denver Water Board C W C B Denver Chief Engr Denver Admn Secty S G S G U S S Denver Water Board U 1212MINUTESOFCOLORADOWATERCONSERVATIONBOARDMEETINGPublicUtilitiesColOlilissionHearingRoom3rdFloorstateOfficeBuildingDenverColoradoNovember121958ThemeetingwascalledtoorderbytheViceChairmanat1000AMIMRSTAPLETONIwouldfirstliketoaskMrStoreyfromtheDictaphoneCompanytoexplaintotheBoardmemberstheuseofthisequipmentwhichyouseeheresothatitcanbeusedeffectivelyAnyofuswhohavereadtheJuly18thminutesoftheDurangomeetingwillknowthatthisisanecessitysoMrStoreywillyouexplainwhatyouwouldlikeustodopleaseMrStoreyexplainedhowthemicrophonesonthetablesshouldbeusedndgavethepriceofthecompleteequipmentbeingusedarthemeetingHeansweredquestionsaskedbythemembersMRSTAPLETONMRMILLERMRSTAPLETONMRMcCANDLESSMRSTAPLETONThankyouMrStoreyBeforewecallontheChairmanIwouldliketohaveapprovaloftheminutesoftheJuly18thmeetingatDurangoIhadmanycorrectionsthatIthoughtIwouldtalktoMrsKeatingaboutIknowRayandDavehavealreadygoneoverthecorrectionsYouwillrecallthattheminutesweretakenbythecourtreporteratDurangoandthetranscriptionwasacompletebustMrsKeatingtellsmethereisnothingfurtherwecandoonthatsetofminutessoIthinkunlesssomebodyiswillingtospendaconsiderablelengthoftimedowninDurangoweoughttoapprovethemastheyaresubmittedImovetheybeapprovedwithwhatevercorrectionsanyonewouldcaretofilewiththesecretaryIsthereasecondtothatmotiontoapprovetheseminutesIIsecondthemotionAllthoseinfavorofthemotionwillsignifybysayingayeopposedthesame l The minutes of July 18th are whatever additional changes to the Director s office I lJ approved with are submitted Now turn to the minutes of September 1958 Are there any corrections or additions to these minutes 17th MR PETERSON Mr Chairman I think I contacted the office in connection with a correction on the Do you have that September 17th minutes Larry MR SPARKS M Peterson called our attention fact that when Mr Larson completed his report to us in that meeting of September 17th he handed us his written report and then he stated at the conclusion that he was certain that the Secretary of the Interior would find that the Curecanti two dam project would be a feasible project and I think Mr Peterson asked him again if that was correct that that was a feasible project and Mr Larson stated that it Yes to the was did not include that in the minutes if you will recall Mr Larson speci He submitted to us fically asked us not to his written report which he wanted put in the The basis for his request record but no more is that it is not within his province or author ity to certify that any project is feasible That decision rests solely with the Secretary of the Interior and Mr Larson did not wish to have anything in our records to show that he had I think we should play approved it in advance with him on that He stated to us frankly along and it was put into the newspapers that he COn sidered it was a feasible project and that the Nevertheless Secretary was so going to state the Bureau works under certain channels of pro cedure and as long as it appeared in the news papers we can say he said it but it doesn t ap pear in our minutes and for that purpose very often these people who make reports will ask us that matters be kept off our official minutes and that was the sole reason we omitted it Now because I we 1214 MR In view of the fact it was made a matter of public record through the news papers I thought surely that the report included in the as given to us could be I don t see or if it has not minutes been published in the papers why then of course it would not have been public notice but inasmuch as it was I saw no reason why it could not have been in the minutes and to me that was very important because it was the first time I have ever gotten the Bureau of Reclamation to make a statement that the Curecanti Project was a It was really a veiyim feasible project portant statement PETERSON MR LEW WILLIfl MR SPARKS S PETERSON SPARKS STApLETON make it a public statement As far as I am concerned I don t care as the members of the Board feel certain that the statement was made and will keep that in mind as don t think we are under any misappre to what he stated Pete He simply did not want it a matter of our official minutes I hension MR not a long MR us He did because he cannot make that kind Let s assume the Secretary of statement the Interior later says it is not feasible then Mr Larson is hanging out on a limb because He indicated he cannot make that determination to us what his opinion was on the matter but it is not his determination of MR asked He I as Are there any other additions corrections comments on the minutes of September 17th May we have a motion then or MR LEW WILLII I will MR BURR I MR STAPLETON make the necessary motion second it It has been moved and seconded that the be approved minutes of September 17 1958 All those in favor will signify as submitted by saying The motion carried aye opposed the unanimously same I Ll MR STAPLETON It is a great pleasure for us L to wel back after an arduous month of traveling the Chairman of our Board and I would like him Governor McNichols to address us at this time come I GOY McNICHOlS I don t have anything in You have a very to the Board particular say it here I saw some time ago interesting agenda and I was interested in seeing what progress has been made on this Ftyingpan and on the surveys and all and I just wanted to be here this morning Otherwise I don t have anything to say Why don t we just get along with the meeting Thank you Ben to MR STAPLETON Before the meeting starts I want to state that I heard in Rome of my election as Yice Chairman and I appreciate the honor and will be very willing and happy to serve at the pleasure I will of the Board in any capacity that I can try and work with the attorney and the Director to carry out your wishes on MR SPARKS With that stated we will first have the Fryingpan Arkansas Project report Gentlemen I think you have been kept up to date pretty well on the progress of that project We have been trying very hard to locate addi tional storage sites in Western Colorado to re place the Aspen Reservoir have made several trips along the Fork River where the Aspen Reservoir Roaring We had field parties is presently contemplated off and on both for weeks over there several of Reclama from this Board and from the Bureau tion There appears to be no making surveys feasible site on the Roaring Fork River other There are other than the Aspen Reservoir site small sites but the cost of those small sites is completely out of proportion to the amount of So it appears water that could be stored there that there is no suitable site other than the Aspen site and if the people of Pitkin County there appears to be do not want the Aspen site I site any further no point in pursuing that think it is a grave mistake on the part of the people of Pitkin County but nevertheless they are the ones who are in a position to decide We I a 1216WehavehadnointerestwhatsoevershownintheconstructionofthatreservoirfromthatcountyNowasfarastheFryingpanArkansasProjectisconcernedstorageontheRoaringForkisnotnecessaryItwasputthereoriginallyattherequestoftheWesternSlopebecausethepeoplewhowereonthePolicyandReviewCommitteeatthattimebackin51or52felttherewaslittlechanceofacquiringstorageontheRoaringForkotherthanbythismethodButasfarastheprojectisconcernedithasaveryminoreffectontheentireprojectIThepresentthinkingoftheColoradoRiverWaterConservationDistrictisthatthesameamountofmoneycouldbeexpendedsomewhereelseinWesternColoradointheupperregionsoftheColoradoRiverandthatagreateramountofstoragecouldbeaccomplishedwiththesameamountofmoneyandthatsexactlytheplanthatweareworkingonnowWehavetwopossiblesitesontheHomestakeCreekbothofwhichlookfairlypromisingcloudedonlyatthistimebycontroversyconcerningwaterrightsAtthepresenttimetheCityandCountyofDenvertogetherwithIbelieveitiscalledtheMetropolitanWaterAssociationwhichconsistsmainlyofColoradoSpringsandAurorahavemadefilingsontheHomestakeCreekintheupperregionsfordiversionintotheArkansasValleyEvenifoneofthosediversionsandonlyonewouldbepracticalifeitherofthosediversionsisgrantedtherewouldstillbesomewateravailableinthelowerregionsofHomestaketogetherwiththeEagleRiverapproximately30000feetButwearenowmakingawatersurveytodeterminehowmuchwouldbeleftifthissocalledElliottfilingweregrantedorifthefilingmadebytheCityandCountyofDenverwasgrantedAfilingwasalsomadebytheColoradoRiverWaterConservationDistrictforwateroutoftheHomestakeCreekAllofthosefilingsarenowpendingintheColoradoSupremeCourtTheDistrictJudgeofEagleCountyrefusedtograntanyofthefilingsthatweremadeonHomestakeCreekSowhattheI IMRNELSONI1211ultimatesituationasfarasthewaterrightsareconcernedwedonotknowbutthereisapossibilitythatwecanstorewaterthereinanyeventWearenotrulingoutthepossibilityofstorageinotherpossiblesitesTothatendwearecooperatingwiththeColoradoRiverDistricttodeterminethosesitesTheBureauofReclamationisnowintheprocessofstudyingthesitesWehavecertainfieldinformationalreadyaccumulatedItisaquestionnowoftryingtodeterminewhatsitewehavesofarsurveyedisthemostfeasibleWithinarelativelyshortperiodoftimewewillknowwhichsiteisthemostfeasibleOnMondayIappearedintheDistrictCourtofGarfieldCountyalongwithMrBarnardoftheColoradoRiverWaterConservationDistrictandMrBeisethecounselfortheSoutheasternWaterConservationDistrictWeagainrequestedanextensionoftimefortheadjudicationproceedingsfiledbytheSoutheasternDistrictandwhenitwasexplainedtoJudgeDarrowthatwewereattemptingtoworkthismatterouthewithoutanyhesitationgrantedanextensionoftimetoMarch21959WehaveenteredintoacontractwiththeBureauofReclamationinthesumof75000andthathasbeensignedandexecutedtoreviewtheFryingpanArkansasProjectIatleastamveryhopefulthatwearenowapproachingtheprojectinthepropermannerEveryonehasbeenextremelycooperativeandthereseemstobenogoodreasonatthistimewhytheprojectlegislationcannotberewrittenreintroducedandpassedatthenextsessionofCongressArethereanyquestionsonitIwouldliketoaskaboutthesitesontheRoaringForkWhatmadethemsoexpensivethetypeofconstructionorwhyweretheyfoundinfeasible7 lO lZ MR SPARKS The only natural reservoir site of size on the Roaring Fork is the basin any above the town of Aspen the Aspen just Reservoir When you get above that site the river drops off very rapidly which means to get any storage you have to go very high with your dam That whole valley is heavily overlain with glacial deposits It is almost to we find what call bedrock in impossible for You drill that valley can several hundred feet and still not find it which then means that you have a very expensive base The reservoir can be built on the sand base that exists there but you will have some If you build a small reservoir and leakage only a small reservoir is possible anywhere above Aspen then your leakage under the dam may be so great that you don t accomplish much holdover storage I You could figure the Aspen Reservoir itself would leak through the sand below but it would not be a significant amount if you When you get had a 28 000 foot reservoir down to 10 000 feet or less then that leakage becomes very significant MR NELSON MR SPARKS I would like to ask another question Has the controversial Ruedi site been checked The Ruedi reservoir site has been It was one of the thoroughly gone over before of of the Bureau Reclamation original plans There again the reservoir site itself is quite feasible the dam site But there is that is a chalk or limestone formation on one of the abutments which is a dangerous type of forma If that limestone formation extends any tion where through the dam site itself eventually There leak out your whole dam will go out is quite an extensive chalk deposit there site has not been ruled out We are looking at the entirely yet for which time sites present present no of on the it face We may have great problem to go back and take another look at the Ruedi The top engineers from the Bureau who site Now that as I 141 have looked at it and are on MR NELSON MR SPARKS I very that reluctant site familiar with it to construct a reservoir are 1 would like to ask a further question There this being in my domain so to speak has been some argument and differences over the Fryingpan Bill as it existed at the end of the session What version of the Fryingpan Bill would probably be submitted when Congress the old version or the is in session again version that was in existence at the end of the session 1 don t believe that the version that in existence at the end of the session would be acceptable Now whatever bill is we reintroduced are going to have to again establish some new operating principles and the bill will have to be in conformance with The original bill was in those principles with those conformance principles and too many I expect that with amendments were tacked on in the next few weeks we are going to have to reconstitute a committee to again review those was operating principles which means representatives from the Colorado River Water Conservation District representatives from this Board and representatives from the Southeastern Water Con servation District Those principles that will be adopted will be in the bill and I don t believe we can permit any further amendments that are not stated in the operating principles MR CHRISTY not a Mr Sparks new set of may I add to that you mean operating principles but some modifications Modifications in line with the which you are able to get agreement I MR SPARKS That s correct They would have to be modified in view of the storage other than the This replacement reservoir would Roaring Fork have to be included in these operating prinicples MR NELSON Then the entire efforts that encompasses the bill the engineering and everything is all going in cooperation you are not going off with one leaving the other one behind MR SPARKS No lZZU MR STAPLETON What s the target deadline for all That s what going thi s MR NELSON MR SPARKS We hope to have this bill ready for introduction at the earliest possible moment in Congress perhaps say by February 1st so that hearings can be held on the bill not later than the end of April MR McCANDLESS In view of the changes how extensive hearings will have to be held MR SPARKS don t think they will require extensive The main portion of this project has hearings All we are concerned already been discussed with now is this Western Slope storage and that We has been the stumbling block in Congress don t think the hearings would need be too ex tensive though I might state that the Bureau while they are at it are revising certain features of the power sites in eastern Colorado to make them more in line with what recent studies have shown They only improve the bill t don involve they really any major change MR STAPLETON I was to ask next I We Would anyone like Any other comments on the any of our any project report to make I guests don t thank that needs any formal motion MR NELSON Chairman at the last meeting your substitute mentioned possible Denver objections to the seven points Are you aware of what they might be 7 MR STAPLETON Mr No I was not aware of them Saunders do you have any comments you would like to make 7 MR SAUNDERS We would like to study and have an oppor tunity to comment formally on these revisions MR PETERSON Mr Chairman it seems to me like this become more involved than we anticipate When do you expect this commission will be set up Mr might I LZZl MR SPARKS I would say within the next thirty We want to do a little more program days ing with the Bureau during the rest of this month I You will notice I have mentioned the possibility of a special meeting in December and at that time we should have this thing ready to go whatever we need in the way of conuni ttee personnel on this review MR PETERSON Ready MR SPARKS That MR STAPLETON Are we pass on to make s the appointments right any other conunents before to the next agenda item there MR NELSON Is there any plan for this Board to take the matter direct to the people of Aspen ore are you going to work through the Colorado River Water District Board MR SPARKS I feel that that is within the province the Colorado River District Board Now I will meet with that Board this Friday and this I am sure will be part of the discussion At that time I hope to be able to understand in more detail what the River Board feels and how they can be of assistance of MR STAPLETON We will then pass on to the next item the agenda the National Reclamation Association convention to be held next week in on Houston I MR SPARKS MR SAUNDERS I think the Board members have been or familiar with this Most of you I believe rather all of you should be on the NRA mailing list Are there any Board members who wanted to go to that We have not had any requests It is to be held in Houston Texas and starts the 19th Wednesday the Board members might Mr Chairman little diffident about suggesting that this Board should send them at the Board s expense and as a stranger who represents per one of the haps largest areas of taxpayers I suggest that there of the State of Colorado be a 1222 should be a good representation at this convention and that no one on this Board ought to feel diffident about accepting the responsibility of going or accepting the reimbursement of the cost of going to it This convention brings to it people from allover the western United States whose interests are identical with ours in the It is a very worth deve10pment of the West while wholesome experience to go there I would hope that especially the Vice Chairman I of this Board would be present to represent of Colorado The Governor has so him demands made that it is many upon to near him to go ask pretty impossible but it would be desirable everywhere certainly to send as many members as you could It the State seems to me a perfectly appropriate expense for the State of Colorado to have its top water officials at this which is the top water meeting of the entire United States MR SPARKS I think as we stated before and all the Board has agreed that it is a good thing for the Board members to go to these various meet ings if they are able to do so particularly the NRA I think perhaps we can leave it that if any of you are able to go if you would come into the office after this meeting sometime today before you get out of here we can arrange it financially and we can make the arrangements for you You may think it is a little late but we can nevertheless do it so if any of you want to come in and talk about it later today please do so MR STAPLETON The Governor has suggested that if there enough members of this Board who would like to go he could possibly make the arrangements for the use of the Guard plane It seats 15 people and I have been trying to work out my personal schedule to go down there and the transportation down and back is not too good I would think that maybe if there were enough of us that could go with a limited amount of time I know that is a problem for all of us we might keep that in mind and discuss it later on in the meeting which brings up another I would like if it meets with the point are I IMRLEWWILLIAMSMRSTAPLETONMRNELSONGOVMcNICHOLSMRNELSONGOVMcNICHOLSIMRNELSON166approvaloftheBoardmaybewecantdoitthismeetingbutfromnowonatourregularmeetingstoplanonhavingaluncheonwherealltheBoardmemberstheattorneyandtheDirectorarepresentsowecandiscussinformallysomeofthesemattersDoesanypodyhaveanyobjectionstothattodayoratanyfuturemeetingsIthinkitisaverygoodideaWewillaskMrsKeatingtoseeifshecantarrangesomeplaceforthisnoonandeverynoonfromthenonoutWemightdiscusswhetherwecangetenoughtotakeadvantageoftheGovernorsofferbecausetometimeisoftheessenceandthetransportationscheduleparticularlycomingbackisnottoogoodItisprettydifficultformetogetawaybutthatissomethingIwouldliketodiscussatthenoonhourifwecanMrChairmanIwouldliketoaskinregardtothisplanewoulditbepossibleformembersofotherofficialwateragenciesinthestatetogoontheplanesayforinstancetheColoradoRiverDistrictortheSouthwesternDistrict7IthinksoWewouldhavetodesignatethemasconsultantssotherewouldntbeanydiscussionTherewouldbetwogoingdownfromtheColoradoRiverDistrictThatswhywehavetheplanefixeduptoputtheseatsinitEverytimewewanttogosomeplacewehavetospend3000or4000orbetteroncommercialtransportationIfwecangetenoughpeoplewhowanttogothereare15airlineseatsinthisplaneTherearetwogoingdownfromtheColoradoRiverDistrictandtheSouthwesternRiverDistrictsentsomeonebeforeIknowtheArkansasValleypeoplesentsomeoneandIthinktheseofficialagenciesmightqualify lZZ4 MR L WILLIAMS by GOY I was checking the air and it is almost Mc NICHOlS MR L MR STAPLETON GOY Was that way or 139 00 round trip Round trip MS WILLIF McNICHOLS one transportation cost I think it would be a fine opportunity for the Board members to go and this gives many of us an idea as to how we can get down there and tend to our business at the same time I le have the problem of having the Air Guard budget tied up with the National Guard budget which puts a real load on the low bud get they were able to get but we are going to give the Air Guard a separate budget of their own so we can take advantage of these things and take our Board members where they ought to be when they ought to be there These techincal people that want to go I think they should be allowed to go consistent with the amount of room we have We have always been limited because of the cost of the travel in getting our people to these places and I don t think we ought to be limited any more MR NELSON MR L When would the guard plane go down7 WILLIAMS the GOY McNICHOLS We 18th are supposed to be there at noon on We would have to clear this with General am sure would make it available to us We would have to do this ahead of time so he can make his plans and get the pilot Moffitt who I MR will MR SPARKS Sparks being an old pilot probably take eight hours Mr STAPLETON says it it is not a This thing on the 18th to be there I had not necessity planned on of 18th there until the the being evening but we could leave the morning of the 18th or we could leave the morning of the 17th either one I MRSTAPLETONIMRCHRISTYMRSTAPLETONMRCHRISTYMRSTAPLETONMRCHRISTYILvLetsexamineourownpersonalschedulesandseewhatwecanworkoutMrChairmanIthinkmostofyouareawareofthfactthatColoradoistryingtogettheNRAtomeetinDenverin59WetalkedwiththeconventionbureauhereinSeptemberandanticipatethatifColoradowantsitwwillwindupwithagreatdealofcompetitionHowmanypeopleattendIwouldimagineinDenverwewouldhavesomewherearound800ormaybeevenmoreYouseeDenverhasnthaditnowforagoodmanyyearsThereevenisamovementintheoffingintheNRAtosetthesetoalternatebetweenDenverandSaltLakeWouldaletterfromtheGovernorencouragethemtocomeinourcentennialyearThelasttimewepresentedabrochuretherewasaletterfromtheGovernorsofficealetterfromtheDirectoroftheWaterConservationBoardtherewasaletterfromtheDirectorofRegion7InotherwordswehavegottohaveateamjobandastrongcommitteefromDenverImighttellyouthatevenColoradoSpringsaskedforthemeetingbutrightorwrongasadirectorIruledthatDenverhadalreadyputinthe1rrequestandwewerentgoingtohavecompetitioninColoradoIthoughtIhadbetterpassthatonandthatisanotherreasonwhyitseemstomethatastrongdelegationfromColoradoisneededandIwanttoaddtoowithCongressmeetingIrememberalongfightortbasinsitesandIthinkthereportof17westernstateshadalottodowithhelpingtheColoradoRiverStoragebillonaccountofthatNowthosearethekindofthingsthatifwearethereintheformulatingstageinanorganizationofthatkindwillmakeitbeneficialNowwevegottheWildernessBillcomingupwevegotthesubstitutionoftheBarrettBilltowritenowWhogottheBarrettBillstartedItwastheNRAwhogotthe 1226 Senator to endorse it We will have to All of those things find another endorser are right down the alley of everything this Board is coping with protecting our rights MR STAPLETON As the Colorado director on the NRA assist you in presenting this brochure I am sure the Governor in our centennial year would be more than delighted to assist in can we every way possible MR CHRISTY There should have been a request in the Governor s office by this time and over here for another letter MR STAPLETON It has not probably has not MR SPARKS I come come to this Board so it to the Governor s office I have received a letter from Mr of this possible move to Christy informing Colorado and I informed him that we would to everything as far as this Board is concerned to We are trying to secure try to promote it some Colorado products for the all states We have secured some banquet in Houston Food land Sky peaches about 600 or 700 cans which will be placed on the tables at the I think it is the feeling of the banquet people who are connected with the NRA in Colorado that a concerted attempt would be made to secure the national convention here me GOV MR McNICHOlB CHRISTY When is the date a matter of fact the last week in is being held by the Denver Convention 59 Also the centennial committee Bureau in is supposed to be working on it but what I am a little afraid of is that there are too many We did have it fingers in the pie right now set up that Ike Walton or somebody would come down and present it to the Board As October GOV McNICHOIB 18th Would you want to leave sometime the The plane may drop you off and pick you up again I 1 MR I will find out how many Governor want to go and find out when to go and let you know SPARKS people do they want I MR STAPLETON Are there any other comments on the Let s take up the next NRA convention item on the agenda MR BARNARD SR This Mr Chaiman may I interrupt has to do with another water meeting which doesn t have the stature or of course status of the NRA convention but it is of interest to the Colorado River basin states It is the meeting of the Colorado River Water Nevada the Users Association in Las Vegas This is an annual 4th and 5th of December convention of representatives of At the seven Colorado River basin states between those meetings controversial subjects upper and lower basins are strictly taboo I haven t even been able to take a fallout of California people which I have wanted to do on occasion meeting or to have a very interesting two items that come to we mind are going to have a panel discussion of the Wilderness Bill with two proponents and two opponents taking part with a moderator who knows his stuff We had some difficulty I might say in finding two proponents to but we appear for that bill in the west Another item is solved the finally problem S S G the report from the U and the Bureau latest de on the of Reclamation and others on control on the velopment experimentation of evaporation in reservoirs and other sub jects such as that We program are going There are I simply want to say to the Board members that the Association would be pleased to have as many as possible attend this meeting I MR STAPLE1DN We will now Mr Barnard Thank you the educational into the next agenda item Will the Director please report on program that go 1228 MR SPARKS Gentlemen I think it has been obvious all and the Colorado Water Congress has certainly pointed this up that there has not been a general understanding in the State of Colorado as to what our problems are The Colorado Water Congress is filling the large t gap in that deficiency and I trust will continue to do so We will have on a report that a little later from John Barnard Jr to us We constantly h ve people coming I in the office farmers who first go to the I don t know how they Denver Water Board then they get get over there but they do over to the State Engineer s office and sometimes they win up in our office and they have some project in mind and they want to knew what can be done to get it Now what we have been trying to do I have been making a note of each one of those projects as fast as our engineering is we will available send out a personnel crew on each of these projects They may be I don t know harebrained schemes most of them will probably turn out that way but when the have an idea about certainly people conservation of water I think it behooves this Board to look into it because actually these farmers on the ground generally know more about the situation to begin with than any one else going This brings us down to some of the Board members will recall that a number of years ago when Public Law 485 was in the United States Congress a concerted drive was made by the Upper Basin states to conduct lobbying activities and educational activities of different sorts A film was produced by the Commission at that time which was shown This was a movie throughout the country film and quite an exceptional film A amount of raised large money was through subscription and an organization known as the Aqualantes was formed They got into I 1229IsomelittledifficultyinCongressapparentlybecauseofregistrationlawstheyapparentlyfailedtoobserveNeverthelessPublicLaw485waspassedagainsttremenduousoppositionandsincethattimetheUpperColoradoRiverCommissionhasnotdonemuchinthewayofeducationalactivityNowthatprogramhasbeenresumedbytheCommissionbecausethebattleisonlystartingWehavetheseprojectstobuildnowandwearealongwaystotheircompletionTheStateofColoradoappropriatedsomemoneythroughtheLegislaturetothisBoardatthattimebackinaround54whichwastobeusedincooperationwiththeotherupperbasinstatesLittleornothinghasbeendonewiththatmoneyforseveralyearsWestillarecarryingitinaspecialfundWehaveabout25000inthatspecialfundwhichasIsayhasbeenlargelyinactiveandIdidntevenknowitexisteduntiltheaccountantcalledittomyattentionIhavedonesomeexploratoryworkdetermininghowwecouldbestspendthatmoneyTheUpperColoradoRiverCommissionhasrequestedthatColoradocontributeapproximately7000forsomefilmsandliteraturewhichtheCommissionhopestogetintoproductionrightawayIthinkImentionedthattotheBoardbeforeThisleavesusthebalanceofsome16000or17000IhavegoneintotheproductionofafilmwithafilmproducerhereinColoradoforColoradousesIMythoughtwaswewouldtiethisinwiththecentennialcelebrationhaveitreadybysometimenextsummerproduceanoutstandingqualityfilmwhichsetsforthsomeofColoradosproblemsForinstancehowthewaterproblemsarehandledtheactivitiesofthisBoardandwhatthisBoardcandoandwhatithasdonetofurthertheconservationanddevelopmentofourwaterresourcesIntalkingitoverwiththemovieproducerwethinkwecanproduceaveryfinefilmwhichcanbeshownthroughoutthe 1230 United States which portrays the activities of the Commission of this Board with parti because cular emphasis on Colorado s problems our problems are unique in the United States This is about the only state in the Union to which no other state contributes any water Our rivers all flow out of Colorado and none we flow in and we have made more compacts have been in more litigation than any other State in the Union with reference to water I think our citizens should be intim rights ately acquainted with all of our problems and they can be graphically portrayed in a film together with a short resume of our ground water problems which can also be portrayed I It would cost for a color film of what is known as a Class B type which means it has anima tion a sound picture of course but has some ani That is a 27i mation approximately 16 000 The minute film which includes television rights over television film shown isto this purpose get stations throughout the United States at no cost I don t of course as a public service program Com of seen this know whether some you may have seen the film some of you may have mission film or for that was produced for Frontier Airlines the Coors Brewery these were produced by Rippey Inc Henderson and Bucknum They produce beauti ful films with This is a film which an emotional impact we would want to have MR NELSON How many copies include of the MR SPARKS Only copy MR NELSON Additional copies would cost MR MOSES Those cost MR SPARKS your pilot only about We would have oli film would that 50 more cost then 00 each probably 25 copies all together MR PETERSON I would like to ask Larry who would main out tain the film after it was produced and let I lZ31 MR W M WILLIAMS They have to be taken in and spliced where they have been broken sections I MR SPARKS MR W M cut out etc They have complete laboratory This facilities right here in Denver is their main office The firm that makes WILLIAMS it would handle it 7 MR SPARKS Yes handle the TV commitments and everything MR PETERSON MR SPARKS see There is a very small cost in that the cost is in your original production which includes travel It means that we would go throughout the far corners of Colorado and the lower basin states and clear out to California even showing Boulder Dam what reclamation has done for the West the position Colorado now finds herself in with very few reclamation projects MR NELSON What film MR SPARKS going is this to have Upper Colorado Commission on Colorado It will be devoted Very little mostly to the main stem projects They will tell two stories on the Commission the battle over the Colorado film one River water and the reclamation benefits from the Colorado River water two the Our recreational aspects of reclamation in here Colorado is much broader as story the Colorado River is merely one phase of our MR I NELSON problem I understand the Commission had a rhubarb over how many films they were going to have Has that been settled yet 7 rather MR SPARKS They are going to have two that but who is going to produce is definite them is another thing But whoever pro duces them these films will be produced in conjunction with each other they will fit in All the script will have to be reviewed 1232trlRNELSONMRSPARKSGOVMcNICHOJBMRSPARKSGOVMcNICHOJBMRSPARKSMRNELSONMRSPARKSWouldthisfilmbeavailablefordistributiontoserviceclubsetcThatisoneofmyprimarypurposesofthisColoradofilmWewanttogetthestoryouthereinColoradoasmuchaswedonationwiseIThereislittleconceptioninColoradoofourproblembasicallythereisverylittleconceptionastohowtheproblemsarehandledWillthisfilmhavesomethingonthegroundwatersituationYesItwouldincludewearethinkingashortresumeofthegroundwatersituationwithsomeanimationshowingyourgroundwatertableshowthBYcanbepumpeddryWewanttomakealittlehistoricalsynopsisoftheStateofColoradoshowingthewaterproblemsparticularlywiththemajorriverstheRioGrandethePlattetheArkansastheColoradoIn27tminutesyouaregoingtohavetocompressitanawfullotYesbutitcanbedoneIwentthroughanumberoffilmsreviewedanumberoffilmsthatthiscompanyhadproducedfornationaldistributionandtheytellterrificstoriesinthatlengthoftimeAsamatteroffacttheydonotrecommendafilmofgreaterlengthWouldthisBoardhaveanopportunitytoreviewthescriptbeforeitwasactuallyproducedThescriptwouldbelargelywrittenoutofthisofficewhichIwouldturnovertothemandacommitteefromthisBoardTheywouldrevisethescriptinaccordancewithproductionrequirementsI IIMRPETERSONMRSTAPLETONMRMILLERrtRSTAPLETON1233MrChairmanIbelievewehaveabigsellingjobtodointheStateofColoradoItinvolvesmillionsandmillionsofdollarsofdevelopmentandIthinkthisisapartoftheprogramtogetourdevelopmentunderwayjustasmuchasitwouldbetoappearbeforeacommitteeinCongressandIwouldliketomovethatweauthorizetheexpenditureofthenecessaryfundsavailablefortheproductionofthefilmthattheDirectorhasjustmentionedandsufficientcopiesbemadetocoverthearearequiredIsthereasecondtothatmotionIseconditIthasbeensecondedbyMrMillerIsthereanydiscussionIwouldthinkthetargetdateshouldnotbethebeginningofthesummerhoweverrathertheearlierinthespringthatwouldtieinwiththecentennialfestivitiesandbeforethecloseoftheschoolyearIwouldfigurethiswouldhaveagoodappealintheschoolsandthequickerwecanaetitdonetotieinwiththeearliercelebrationofthecentennialthebetteroffwewouldbeffiWMWILLIABDoesthiscompanytakealltheresponsibilityforshowingthisfilmdotheyhavenationaloutletsMRSPARKSViRSTAPLETONMRSPARKSYestheywillhookusupwithwhateveroutletstheyhavethemallIdontknowtoomuchaboutitbuttheywillputusintouchwithalltheoutletsPartofthecostisfortheirarrangingwhattheycallaTVfranchiseIwouldgathertheyaregoingtohaveahardtimeplacingthisoutsideColoradotoanygreatextentHesaidnothatyouhavequiteademandforthistypeofthingparticularlyifitisabeautifulcolorfilm 1234MRMcCANDLEESGOVMcNICHOLSMRSPARKSMRWMWILLIAMSMRSPARKSMRPETERSONGOVMqNICHOLSItshouldgostrongintheeasternstatesThereisnocommercialphasethereforeitshouldhaveanappealIIthasnocommercializationandasthefilmisshottheywouldrequestacommitteefromthisBoardtorevieweverybitoffilmthatisshotandeverybitofscriptandwhenthethingisfinallyputtogetherthatprocessisgonethroughwiththecompletedfilmanduptothattimetheBoardcanmakeadditionsdeletionsorrequireadditionalfilmbeshotWilltheysortofdeveloptheplotandthatsortofthingRightIjusthadthisoutlinedtomeinafewdaystimeandtheycomeupwithsomeamazingthingsIwouldntattempttowritethescriptassuchAlltheywantfromusisanoutlineofthethingsthatwethinkshouldbecoveredandsomeofthesalientfactstobepresentedandthentheydreamupthewaytheyshouldbepresentedIcanthelpbutfeelthatitisgoingtohaveotheradvantagestotheStateofColoradootherthanjusttothewaterangleYouaresurelygoingtohaveagoodmanyscenesinyourpictureofvariousspotsinColoradoanditwillinvitetouristtraveltoColoradoandotherbenefitstoColoradootherthanjustpicturingthewaterproblemsIthinkitissomethingthatshouldbedoneIthinkprimarilyourownpeoplehavetobeeducatedontheimportanceofthiswatermatterIfwearegoingtohaveextendedbudgetstomakethesestudiesandthepeoplearegoingtoputupthemoneyforthemIthinkitisonlyfairtoletthemknowinagraphicwaywhattheirmoneyisbeingspentforandwhyittakesthekindofmoneythatittakestodothisjobTherearealotofpeoplethatdonthavetheslightestconceptionofitwhatitmeanswhatitcostsandthereisnoquestionbutwhatweareI 1 tremendous amount 1 of going to spend money it is If it on these water projects and I think a excellent thing to do myself done right and is for educational and is slanted that waY it will purposes be very beneficial I MR NELSON an is Chairman I would like to ask just Film strips are also Could sometimes used for similar purposes some of the same scenes from this movie be transferred to film strips if they are found to be really worthwhile for some purposes7 Mr one more question MR SPARKS Yes MR MILLER Question MR STAPLETON question has been called for the motion signify The opposed the same by saying aye the is have it motion carried ayes All The those in favor of The next item on the agenda is the Western Slope Survey Can we have your on that Larry thoughts MR I SPARKS I think I mentioned before Gentlemen this I think everyone here something about Hill and Jewett is familiar with the Leeds If the Board members do not have report Hill and available a copy of that Leeds we Jewett report which was put out in 1953 have additional copies available in the Board office Now that report was rendered as a result of a demand by the Legislature that the Western Slope potentialities water supplies be surveyed This engineer needs and so on firm to was make that report and ing employed the report was made in a fairly short time It cameout at a very unfortunate time when there was a tremendous amount of controversy going on in the State with particular reference to the Denver Blue River diversion The report met with some hostility in western Colorado and even some in eastern Colorado 1236ThereportisquitecomprehensiveinsofarascoveringtheentireSlopeisconcernedItisnotverycomprehensivewhenitcomestoparticularareasWecanseetheendofWesternSlopewaterinsightatthepresenttimethewaterIoftheColoradoRiveranditappearsthatinthenottoodistantfuturesomecompetitionwilldevelopinwesternColoradoamongtheparticularareaswhenyouconsiderthatwehavecommitmentstomakedownstreamWehavenotbeenabletointelligentlyplanthemanyreclamationprojectsthprioritiesofthoseprojectsinwesternColoradoatthepresenttimeWehavenotbeenabletomakeintelligentanalysesofthewaterthatmaybeavailablethereorfortransmountaindiversionsandthoseproblemsaregoingtocontinuetohauntusinthefutureNowtheColoradoRiverWaterConservationDistricthasrequestedthatthosesurveysbereinstitutedandthatwetakeanotherlookattheWesternSlopewatersuppliesIthinktheHillreportfurnishesuswithafairlybasicprefixuponwhichtoworkandIatthistimedontthinkweshouldattempttogetintoanyWesternSlopesurveysonthewholeSlopeassuchIntryingtoworkthisthingoutwiththevariouspeoplewhoareinterestedwhohavesomeknowledgeoftheWesternSlopeproblemsitappearsthatthebestwaywouldbetostartoutonapilotbasistakingtheHillreportandthenanalyzingitwithreferencetoaparticularareaoftheWesternSlopeIfwecancomeupwiththeproperpilotsurveyinsomeareathenwecancontinueaSlopestudyTheproblemsofaristhatnoonehasbeenabletoagreeonwhatanalysesshouldreallybemadeInotherwordshowfardoyouprojectwaterusesintothefutureWhatsubsidiesareyougoingtoplaceuponagriculturallandsandsoonTheonlywayIknowtoworkthatoutistostartwitharelativelysmallareamakeasurveyandthenpresentittoallpeopleIwhoareinterestedfortheircommentsIfwecanestablishacriteriainthatmannerwewillapplyitthenthroughouttherestoftheWesternSlope IMRSTAPLETONMRSPARKSMRSTAPLETONMRBARNARDJRIL01TheareaInowhaveinmindistheSanJuanBasinbecausethatisacriticalareaatthepresenttimewithreferencetotheNewMexicodevelopmentthatistheNavajoIrrigationProjectandtheSanJuanChamaProjectWehavealreadydoneconsiderableworkintheSanJuanBasinwithreferencetothoseprojectsandtheavailablewatersupplyWehavehadMrCliffordJexwhohasbeenmakingasurveyinthatareabothforthisBoardandfortheSouthwesternBoardMrJexbelievesthatacomprehensivesurveyofthatareacanbecompletedtoputinthereananalysisofprojectprioritiestheirimportancetotheareatheirimportancetotheStateofColoradothatacompletesurveycanbemadeandcompletedforabout6000withinayearstimeWouldthat6000befromourBoardorfromtheDistrictBoardThatwouldbefromourBoardthatwouldbeareportmadetoourBoardThatreportwouldhavetobedoneinconjunctionwithourownengineersWecouldnotgetitdoneforthatsumunlessourownengineersalsoworkonitIwouldliketotiemythinkinginwithourInvestigationCommissionThisisoneoftheirprojectsasIrecallitreviewingtheHillreportandhavetheyrecommendedtousthatthisbedoneorshouldwewaitforarecommendationfromthemIpersonallyhaveleftthisproblemintheirhandsuntilwehavesomekindofarecommendationfromthemastowheretheywanttogoIthinktheInvestigationCommissionbyactionofthisBoardisrestrictedinitsinitialstagestotheGlenCanyonfillingproblemandIthinkitwouldbeveryadvisabletorequesttheircommitteetoworkonthethingastheyhaveontheGlenCanyonfillingtogetherwiththeengineersontheBoardandfromtheSouthwesternDistrictBecauseagainthebasicconceptoftheInvestigationCommissionwastohavetechniciansfromareas JJOinterestedintheColoradoRiversitinonthepreparationoftheveryquestionsthatLarryistalkingaboutthefundamentaltheorieswhichyouaregoingtouseinthesurveyandalsotositinonthefinalreportIandmaketheirobjectionsatthattimeinthehopesthatwhenthereportisfinallymadeitwillhavesubstantialagreementfromtheentitieswhoareinterestedintheColoradoRiverIwillsaythisalsoMrBarkleyadvisesmethatbecauseofthefacttheinitialphasesoftheCommissionsworkarebeingworkedontheyhaventmetrecentlybecausetheyhaventhadanythingtodountiltheystartgettingthosereportsandIamsureMrBarkleywouldbehappytogettheCommissiontogetherassoonaspossibletolookintothisthingandgotoworkonthisparticularproblemMRSPARKSImightalsoaddthatwehavealsohadPhilSmithandMrWilliamsBureauEngineerfromDurangoworkingwithMrGildersleeveandMrlexonwhathasbeendoneontheSanJuanChamasofarwhichisnotascompleteaswhatwehaveinmindherebutitwouldformagoodbasisforinitiatingthissurveyIwouldmovethatthematterbesubmittedtotheInvestigationCommissiontoworkoutaplanforthesurveyandthattheDirectorbeauthorizedtoexpendsuchmoneyashedeemsnecessaryupto6000tocarryoutthatworkThatwassubmittedtotheCommissionalreadyIinformedthemthatIwouldliketheCommissiontotakeupwhattheyconsidernecessaryAtthepresenttimewehavenoideaofwhatthecriteriashouldbebutcertainworkcanbeaccomplishednowCharlieswhatwasdoneonthatIwrotethelettertotheCommissionatonetimeIMRFISKIdontknowLarryIhavenoanswertothat MRSTAPLETONIMRBARNARDJRGOVMcNICHOlSIMRLWILLIAMSvJIhavesomuchfaithintheInvestigationCommissiongettingsomegroundrulesforthisreportandotheractionthatwilleliminateanyfrictionthatcouldotherwisedevelopinthereportthatdidnthavethiscarefulunderstandingofourtoptechnicalandlegaladvisersthatIamveryanxiousthatthisCommissionbethoroughlyfamiliarwithanythingwewanttodoandmaketheirrecommendationsbeforeweactuallysignthecontractsorexpendthemoneyInthatwayIthinkwewouldavoidagreatdealofcontroversyThatisthepurposeofyourmotionisitnot7YessirNowthisHillreportthatwassupposedtobeareportIwasintheSenateatthetimewhenGlennandthesepeoplecamedownandaskedforthemoneytomakethereportwhichwassupposedtobeareporttoendallreportsonwateravailabilityThenafterthatreportwasdoneapparentlyitdidnthavegeneralacceptanceasbeingcorrectandallthatsortofthingPerhapsspecificareamattersaboutwhichyouspeakLarrywerentdetailedinthatrespectandperhapsthatwasthesourceofthecontroversyovertheHillreportIthinkitisworthwhiletospendthemoneytogetthekindofpeoplewhowouldworkonitnotonlyfromthatareabutotherareaswhereitwouldbegivengeneralacceptancesotheycantsaythatisareportstrictlypreparedfortheSanJuanBasinanddesignedtoprimarilybenefittheirinterestsThishasgottobeobjectiveandithastohaveacceptancewhenitisdoneorwearewastingourtimeIthinkitisworthwhiletogetenoughconsultingpeopletogooverthefactsandseethattheinformationiscorrectsothatitwillhavegeneralacceptanceWewillneedwiththeNewMexicoargumentovertheSanJuanChamaandtheamountofwaterwevegotdowntheretohaveallthisinformationanyway lZ4UGOVMcNICHOLSMRSPARKSMRNELSONThatwasoneofourobjectivesalongwiththeWaterCongressideathattherewouldberepresentationfromotherareasinthestatetoworkonthemarshallingofthesefactssothattheycouldbeacceptedIdontthinkweoughttopassuptheopportunitytohavethatdoneoneachoneofthesereportsthataremadesothatwhenwegetsomethingwewillhavebasicinformationthathassubstanceITheactualpurposeherewasforapilotstudyonlytoworkoutthewaysinwhichthesestudiescouldbemadeWehavetoknowforinstancehowmuchwaterisgoingtobeavailablefromtheSanJuanBasintofulfillourcommitmentsatLeeFerryThathasadirecteffectupontheprojectswecanbuildletssayuparoundGranbyoranywhereelseTheyalldirectlyrelatetohowmuchwaterisavailabletothemainstemoftheColoradowhichwillpermitdevelopmentintheSanJuanThoseproblemswehavetoanswerandwehavetoanswerthemquicklybecauseasIsaythetimeiscomingwhenwearegoingtohavecompetitionontheWesternSlopeitselfforwaterThisBoardwillhavetodeterminefromafairlycomprehensiveviewofwherethepriorityshouldexistontheWesternSlopeaswellasanytransmountaindiversionsAllthehelpwecangetonthispilotsurveywearegoingtoneedandthatwascertainlyourintentIinformedtheInvestigationCommissionofthisproblemamonthorsoagoandthereisreallynoonemanwecouldntcompletethisthingfor6000ifwedidnothavetheBoardsengineersandtheseotherengineersonaconsultingbasisThosearestaggeringjobsWethinkoftheSanJuanasasmallbasinbutthefactisitislargerthanagoodmanystatessowearedealingwithalotofterritoryandquiteabitofwaterI1wouldliketoaskaquestionbytheSanJuanBasindoyoumeanalsotheDoloresandtheSanMiguel MRSPARKSIMRSTAPLETONMRLWILLIAMSMRPETERSONMRSPARKSMRPETERSONMRSPARKSMRBURRMRSTAPLETONIMRBARNARDSRlZ41HIthinkprobablythatshouldbeincludedIthinkitisalogicalinclusionHHWehavenotheardasecondtoMrBarnardsmotionHHIwillseconditHHIwouldliketoaskMrSparksifthatmotionfitsinwiththeprogramofwhatwecanaccomplishonthisHHYesitdoesIthinkitfitsinverywellbecauseIthinkwecanstartoutliningwhatshouldbedoneanddrawupadefiniteprocedureWehavealreadydonesomeworkalongtheselinesIhavebeenturningthisoverinmymindforsometwomonthsnowandIhavetalkedtovariouspeopleaboutitincludingsomemembersoftheInvestigationCommissionWeprettywellhaveitoutlinedalreadyHHItdoesnthamstringthestaffofthisBoardHNonotatallHQuestionHHAllthoseinfavorofthemotionwillsignifybysayingayeopposednoThemotioniscarriedImightsayforthemembersoftheInvestigationCommitteethatarehereweoftheBoardareputtingyouonnoticeagainthatwhenwehaveyourrecommendationstheyaregoingtobetheuniformrecommendationsofallofColoradoThatIknowisyouraimandambitionandIamsureyourgoalHHMrChairmanmightIcommentonthatjustalittlebitandemphasizesomethingtheGovernorsaidTheimpetusbehindtheparticipationofmanyofusinsettinguptheWaterCongressandthisInvestigationCommissionisthatallofuswantasaresultofthesestudiesareporttothisBoarduponwhichalloftheareasofColo JZlZMRSTAPLETONMRSPARKSradocanagreeandunlessitishandledinthewayinwhichthemotionprovideswecancomeupwithareportwithwhichnortheasternColoradosoutheasternColoradosouthwesternColoradoorJacksonCountycandisagreeIfwehavethatkindofareportwehaventaccomplishedmuchThankyouMrBarnardThenextitemontheagendaistheWildernesslegislationInadditiontothereportbyourDirectorIwouldliketocallonMrGlennSaunderswhomadeaverycomprehensivereportonthistotheWaterCongressSaturdayandwillspeakontheoppositiontothisattheNationalReclamationAssociationmeetinginHoustonnextweekIwanttocallfirstontheDirectortotellusaboutitandemphasizeitagainandthenwemightcallforafewremarksfromGlennSaundersIGentlemenIdonthavemuchtoreportonthesubjectotherthanwhatIreportedheretotheBoardinInformationBulletinNo2IhavespentsometimeattendingmeetingsofpeoplewhoareinterestedinthisWildernesslegislationLastweekIattendedameetingoftheStateCattlemensAssociationinMontrosethenIattendedameetingatMrChristysinvitationhereinDenverofrepresentativesfrommostofthereclamationstatesrepresentingcattleminingtimberandwhathaveyouIthinkweareallinfavorofconservationWeareallinfavorofpreservingourNationalforestsThedangerinthistypeoflegislationisthatitisanemotionalthingTheproponentsofthislegislationattempttoemphasizethattheyarecreatingsomethingnewNowthesepeoplewhoareproposingthislegislationaremanymanyyearsbehindAsamatterofIfactourNationalforestswerecreatedsomefiftyorsixtyyearsagomostofthemandthewildernessareasandspecialuseareashavelongbeenpermittedandestablishedbytheUnitedStatesForestServiceTheyarealreadyadministeringthese 1LI0IvariousareasIhavepointedouttotheBoardthatwehavenumerousareasinColoradoalreadythatareunderthejurisdictionoftheForestServiceandperformtheverysamethingthatthisWildernessgroupistryingtoperformThemaindifferenceisthatifthisWildernessCouncilissetupitremovestheareasfromanysemblanceoflocalcontrolYousetupanagencyinWashingtonNowatthepresenttimetheSecretaryoftheInteriorandtheSecretaryofAgriculturearechargedwiththeadministrationoftheseforestsNeverthelesswecangooutheretoaregionalforesterandwecanpresentaproblemsaywewanttobuildareservoirinacertainlocalityeventhoughitisinawildernessareaandhewillsayallrightyoucanoryoucantandsometimeshesaysyoucantWhenhesaysyoucantthatsjustexactlywhathemeansHoweverhewillsurveytheareahewillhavehismenlookitoverandifhedeterminesthatyouarenotdestroyingtheareaorthatyouareimprovingithewillletyougoaheadwiththesemultipleusesUnderthispresentbillthesemultipleusestheypaylipservicetothembuttheyareouttheyarejustsimplyoutbecauseonlythePresidentcanallowthemthenandonlyiftheyareamatterofnationalinterestIColoradocattleorColoradodamsarenotamatterofnationalinterestsoyouineffecthavedestroyedthemultipleuseoftheforestTheeconomyinColoradowouldbeterrificallyeffectedifthisbillwastopassandasIsayitaccomplishesnousefulpurposeAiltherightsthattheynowdemandinthisbillcanbeexercisedbyourForestServiceGenerallyspeakingpeopleintheUnitedStateshavehadalotofconfidenceintheForestServiceButthesepeoplenowwanttosettheForestServiceasideandsayherewellhandlethismatterinWashingtonDCYouarenolongercompetenttolookafteryourownareasIhavediscussedthematterwithForestServiceofficialstheRegionalForesterandotherpeoplewhohavededicatedtheirlivestothepreservationofournationalforestsandwithoutexceptiontheyareopposedtothislegislation J11IthinkasIsayitisadangeroustypeoflegislationbecauseithasanemotionalappealbackeastPeoplewillsayletsestablishthesewildernessareasforposteritynotknowingorlittlecaringthattheyarealreadyestablishedIIthinkitbehoovesthisBoardtotakeastrongstandagainstitOurCongressmenhavealreadywrittentothisBoardrequestingguidanceonitIjusthadaletterfromSenatorAllottstatingheisvitallyinterestedSenatorCarrollhaswrittenmeandCongressmanAspinallandallofthemwantsomeexpressionfromColoradoMRSTAPLETONTheWaterCongressatitsfirstannualconventionthisweekendendorsedandrecommendedthatMiRockefellerwhoistheheadofanewcommitteeinCongressthenameofwhichescapesmeappointGlennSaundersonthatadvisorycommitteeThatcommitteeismeetingeitheryesterdayortodayinWashingtontoselecta15mancommitteeandIthinkitmightbeinterestingtohearbrieflyoftheplansofthecommitteeandanythingthatMrSaundersmightaddtoMrSparksremarksMrSaundersMRSAUNDERSMrSparksissorightabouttheratherfanaticalcharacterofthepeoplewhoaresupportingthelegislationpoliciesregardingthelimitationofuseofournationallandstoaverysmallamountofpeopleIrememberbeinginWashingtonatahearingandseeingaverylargefatmanwithalongbeardcleardownoverhisextendedmiddleThemostpeculiarthingabouthimwasthathewasbarefootinthiscommitteeinCongressIaskedwhointheworldwasthatcharacterandwastoldhewasoneofthosewildlifefollowersNowthisgroupwhenyoulookthemoverarenotthekindofpeoplewhoareoutheretouringourmountainsorparticipatinginourrecreationalfacilitiesTheyareasLarrysaysaratherfanaticalgroupI 1440IInordertohavesomesemblanceoforderlyrecommendationsregardingthesedevelopmentsthelastCongressrightattheendofthesessionprovidedfortheappointmentofaNationalWildernessRecreationalResourcesCommissionThiscommissionconsistsofeightmembersfromtheCongresstwoRepublicansfromtheHousetwoDemocratsfromtheHousetwoDemocratsfromtheSenateandtwoRepublicansfromtheSenateInadditiontherearesevencitizensappointedbythePresidentoftheUnitedStatesMrLaurenceRockefellerwasappoinedtheChairmanofthegroupbythePresidenttogetherwithsixotherpeopleofwhomonewastheNationalExecutiveSecretaryoftheIzaakWaltonLeagueMrJoePenfoldManyofyouwillrememberhimHehassomeverystrongviewsyouwillrecollectuponthissubjectIhadthewrongnumberattheWaterCongressBenThereare25tobeappointedonanadvisorycounciltothiscommissionandthese25aretorepresentvariousintereststhroughouttheUnitedStatesandwefoundtherewasntmuchpublicitygiventothismatterandwewereafraidwewereabouttobeslightedWealsonotedthepassageofthebillsomemonthorsoagoandaskedthatsomestepsbetakentohavesomeoneappointedeitheronthisCommissionortheadvisorycouncilThethinglayratherdormantuntilwegotaletterrecentlyfromagroupmostlyheadedbytheCattlemensAssociationthatHaroldChristyputusontowhichindicatedthatwehadtoactimmediatelyorwewouldbeforeverlostSoinordertotiethisthingtogetheritseemedwehadtosendsomebodyandyouknowhowitiswhenyoumakeamotionyoualwaysgetappointedtothecommitteeWellImadethemotionsoIgotappointedtothecommitteeTheWaterBoardofDenverdidsaythatifIshouldbeappointedtothisadvisorycommissionIcouldtakethetimetoworkonitandthereforewegottogetherquiteabitofsupportintheformoflettersLarrySparkssentoneMrPalmerfromthemininggroupsentonequiteanumberoflettersweresenttosupportthisI 1246WehavecontactedByronRogersaboutitbecausehehasaverycloseassociateintheCongresswhoisamemberoftheCommissionWealsocontactedthemeninArizonawehaveknownmanyyearsbecauseoneoftheirCongressmenisontheCommissionsothatperhapswecangetsomerepresentationhereIbelievethatinallourdealingswiththenaturalresourceswhichthisBoardisinterestedinwemustrecognizethatinthepast25yearstherehasbeenastrongandcontinuingencroachmentuponthemultipleuseofournaturalresourcesbyagroupwhoareratherfanaticalinitsapproachesThesearenotusuallytheoperatingpeopleThefishandwildlifepeoplewhohavetooperatetheseresourceswesitdownwithandweworkourproblemsoutwiththembuttheyareconstantlyunderpressurefrompeopleofratherradicaltendenciesIfyouwereworkingforinstanceintheFishandGameDepartmentofColoradoandyouhaveontheonehandpeoplewhowanttomakemultipleuseofourresourcesandyouhaveontheotherhandagroupofradicalswhosayyouaresupposedtorepresentusitputsyouinaprettydifficultpositionThetrendofnationallegislationhasbeendefinitelytolimittheuseofournationallyownedpropertysothatitwouldnotbeavailableforoiIshaledevelopmentfortheminingofcoalforentryfortheremovaloftimberandallofthesethingsbutratherwearehelddownandrestrictedmoreespeciallyfortheuseofrecreationaloneNowtheForestServiceitselfforinstancehashadquiteatimewiththisthingTheyhaveworkedupanexperimentalforesthereinColoradoinwhichtheyhaveprettyconclusivelydemonstratedthatpropercuttingoftimberisbetterforwatershedmanagementbetterforrecreationitisagoodthingLeavingtimberstandinitsvirginstateisbadforeveryonebutbecauseofthepressurefromtheseratherradicalgroupswhowantnoonetogoinandtouchournaturalresourcestheForestServicehashadaveryhardtimeinprovingitspointthatthecommercialutilizationoftheforestsisgoodfortheforestsandisnotdetrimentaltorecreationalusesII IMRSTAPLETONMRCHRISTYIqlNowifthoseofuswhoareinterestedinthedevelopmentofouroilshaleresourcesourcoalhydrogenationourtimberresourcesandallthatdonotcounteracttheinfluenceoftheseprofessionalwildlifersitputsouradministrativeagenciesinanimpossiblepositionintryingtodefendthemultipleuseofourforestsIbelievethatthisBoardcanproperlytakeastrongstandmfavorofthemultipleuseofourwaterresourceswithusesnecessarytothedevelopmentofourprosperityaheadofrecreationalusesIfthereisaprobleminwateruseitseemstomethatwemustputthebringingofwaterforthetownsorcitiesforfarmsforminingaheadofrecreationalusesThankyouMrSaundersGlennmentionedthatIcalledhisattentiontothismeetinghereinDenverThatcamefromtwosourcestheNationalReclamationAssociationandtheUnitedStatesChamberofCommerceNaturalResourcesCouncilImightaddtowhatGlennsaidthathereabouttwoyearsagointhenationalchamberssomeofusinterestedinwaterinsistedthattheygetalistofthesevariouswildlifeconservationorganizationsGentlemenyouwouldbesurprisedattheinterlockingdirectorateoneveryoneofthoseorganizationsthroughouttheUnitedStatesIdontknowwhetheritisproperornotandIamnottryingtotakeFelixsperogativebutthisNaturalResourcesCouncilwastheoutgrowthofthatMeetinghereinDenverandtherewerepeopletherefromCaliforniaArizonaIdahoWashingtonOregonalloverthewestTheyhavesetupanorganizationwhichisnotacrudethingTheyaregoingtohaveasmallboardtheyaregoingtohaveaboardofrulescommitteesimilartotheoneintheColoradoCongressanditwouldseempropertomethatthisBoardoughttohavesometouchwiththatgroupbecauseitmaybe 14tlMRSPARKSMRCHRISTYMRBARNARDJRthemediumforustopropagandizeifyouwanttousethatwordBecausehereisanorganizationinthewestthewordwesthasbeentakenoutinordertoendeavortogetsomeofthegoodpeopleintheeastIbackofthisnaturalresourcesaccomplishmentThereisnofundobligatedbutitisamediumandasoundingboardthroughwhichyoumightbeabletohaveyourproblemsheardanditissetupbasicallyrightnowtofightwildernessIcanenvisionthatthereisalotofreclamationprogramsinthewestthatmightbesuitableforthemandyouarerightonyourownreservationIfyoukeepthemadvisedastowhatyouaredoingthenyouvegotasensiblesourceandaunitedfrontIcantellyouthatifwefindtheUSChamberofCommercegetsonourteamthattheyareabsolutelyopposedtotheWildernessBillThereareseveralothersliketheBarrettBillThereisalotofworkbeingdoneinthatareaifweneeditItseemstomedidntyougetacopyoftheminutesofthatmeetingLarryWesurelydidHaroldItisntsomethingthatisbindingonyoubutitisasoundingboardThethingIwantedtopointoutistheinterlockingdirectoratesofalltheseotherassociationsallovertheeastTheyareateamandtheyarepowerfulAlongthislinebeforeanyspecificactionisproposedIwouldliketodiscussIhaditdownwhenItalkedaboutwhatwedidattheCongressbutthisseemstobeamoreappropriatetimethefactthatthereisahearingonthisproposedlegislationtodayinSaltLakeCityIhadanopportunitytogobutIdidntasIthoughtIshouldbeatthismeetingAlsobecauseofthefacttherewereseveralColoradogroupstoberepresentedattheSaltLakehearinganditseemedtometobebettertacticsifthisI J4IBoarddeterminesthatweshouldopposeitasaStatetoappearatanotherhearingwhichisscheduledforFridayinAlbuquerqueNowiftheBoardfeelsthatsomerepresentationshouldbetheresometestimonygiveninrespecttothepositionoftheBoardandincidentallythepositionoftheColoradoWaterCongressinrespecttothisWildernesslegislationIwouldsuggestthatsomeonecontactSenatorAndersonscommitteesomeonewhoisinapositiontodosothroughthenecessaryprotocolandarrangefortimeattheAlbuquerquemeetingandsomeonebedelegatedtogotothatAlbuquerquehearingandpresentourviewsImightsayJohnthatIhavebeeninformedbySenatorAllottthathehasrequestedhearingsbeheldhereinDenverWhethertheywillbeornotIdontknowbutIpresumetheywillbeMRBARNARDJRDoyoufeelthenthatweshouldnotgototheAlbuquerquemeetingandsaveourannumitionuntilthenMRSPARKSMRSPARKSIthinkwefirsthavetogetadefinitestatewidepolicyInotherwordsIthinkwearegoingtohavetotryandcoordinatewiththeColoradoGmeandFishCommissionwiththisBoardtheNaturalResourcesetcIthinktheplanningwastotrytogetallofthevariousagenciesintheStateofColoradOtopresentacaseatonetimeMRSTAPLETONInoticeMrMooreisherefromtheGameandFishDoyouhaveanyremarksyouwouldliketomakeonthisbillMRMOORENotparticularlybecauseofthefactthatIdontknowverymuchaboutthespecificsofthisbillDirectorKimballhasntspentalotoftimeoniteitherbutIamsurethatwewouldliketheopportunitytoworkwiththeWaterConservationBoardinregardstothisbillandalsotheForestServicebecausewehavealwaysenjoyedaverycloserelationshipwiththemandhavehadI lZOUMRSPARKSMRBARNARDJRMRSPARKSMRSTAPLETONMRMILLERverylittletroubleworkingwiththemIftheyareopposedtoitthenIwouldassumemaybeitisnotsafetoassumebutwehavealwaysworkedverycloselywiththemthatiftheyareopposedtoitthentheremaybesomethingsinthatbilltowhichtheDepartmentprobablyalsowouldbeopposedICertainlywewouldwanttheopportunttytostudyitwithyouThiswholethingpointsoutthegreatneedforsomecoordinatingforceintheStateofColoradoastheGovernorhaslongarguedforthevariousnaturalresourcesdepartmentsHeretoforeourdepartmentswouldjustgoaroundontheirownanditisstillprettymuchthatwayMythinkingwhenIgotintothisWildernesslegislationwasthatnowisthepropertimetocoordinatethestateagenciesthatareconcernedwithnaturalresourcesTheyareallvitallyconcernedYoudofeelthereisagoodchancewewillhaveahearinginDenverdontyouYesIftheydontwewillcertainlyappearinWashingtononeofthetwoIthinkthesehearingsaremoreofawindowdressingasnearasIcandetermineWewentintothattotryandfindoutwhattheywereforItisratherunusualtobeginwithtohavesuchhearingsandactuallywearegoingtohavetodependagreatdealuponourCongressionaldelegationIthinkwewillgointothatalittlelaterthisafternoononwhatwecandowithourCongressionaldelegationIsitthepleasureoftheBoardtotakeanyactionatthistimeinregardtoWildernesslegislationMrChairmantheonlydesireonmypartistogoalongwiththeGovernorsideaofcoordinatingthepositionofColoradoHeretodayIwouldassumethatifwedotakeapositionastheColoradoWaterConservationBoarditwouldhavetobecoordinatedwiththeseotheragenciesI MRSTAPLETONIMRPETERSONllIthinkanymotiontothateffectwouldtieinwiththeNaturalResourcesBoardMrChairmanIbelievethisBoardshouldtakeactionasaBoardinterestedinconservationthenitcouldbefunneledthroughproperchannelstogetanoverallcommitmentIdonotseeanyreasonatallwhywedonothaveenoughinformationnowsothatthisBoardcantakeastandonitIwouldliketomovethatwedostronglyopposetheestablishmentofthewildernessareasthathavebeenproposedMRSTAPLETONIsthereasecondtothatMRBURRIsecondthemotionMRBARNARDJRDoyouhavereferencetothespecificwildernesslegislationJUstasasuggestionPeteinordertoleavesomelatitudefortheDirectortocoordinatewiththeotheragenceswhynotmakeitthatthisBoardverystronglyexpressitssupportofthemultipleusetheoryofnaturalresourcesasopposedtoalimiteduseofthoseresourcesandthateveryeffortbemadetocoordinatewithotherresourceagenciestoarriveataspecificproposalorspecificpositioninrespecttoanyproposedlegislationeffectingthesemultipleusesGOVMcNICHOlSIBeforeyouvoteonthisletmepointouttoyouthatsometimeagowhentheCurecantiProjectwasbeingdiscussedoneofourStateagenciestookapositionagainstitanditwasanunfortunatethingandperhapsnotintendedthewayitworkedoutButwhenyougetbackintoCongressandthenyoufindyouaremakingfodderforyouroppositionbyhavingthemreachbackintotheminutesofanindependentagencyandsayTheydontknowwhattheywantoneagencywantsonethingandoneagencywantsanotherIthinkbeforethisBoardtakesanyactiononthatweoughttogetthe HtlMRPETERSONagenciestogetherthatareinvolvedinthisthingandperhapsyoucancorneupwithanunanimityofactionofalltheagencieswhichdoesexactlywhatyouwantittodoratherthanhavingoneagencyoroneboarddosomethingwithoutknowinghoworwhyitaffectsanotheragencyoranotherboardIYououghttogivethoseotherboardslikeFishandGameandtheMineralResourcesandvariousotheragenciesanopportunitytotalkwithyouandexplaintheirpointofviewanditmightbeyouareabsolutelyinagreementoritmightnotItmightresultinyourtemperingyouractionatalateitimeandthereisnoreasonwhythiscantbedonerightawayAsyouknowwehavenoDirectorofResourcesItisimpossibletohaveonebecausetheamendmentproposedthatwouldhavegivenustheopportunitytoappointaDirectortogetthisjobdonewasdefeatedNowthisjustleavesmewiththeobligationofbeingtheDirectorofResourcesmyselfandIhavenoplacetoputitbutIthinkwithinarelativelyshorttimeweshouldgettheseBoardstogetherandthenworkthisthingoutonacommonbasiswithouthavingtodoitnowWellGovernorifthetimepermitsthatwouldbesatisfactoryIwasundertheimpressionthatsomethingshouldbedoneimmediatelyandIwasthinkingmymotionwasdirectedtowardtheWildernessBillthatisnowinthehopperorisbeingproposedandwhichasitisourdutytoconservewaterinColoradowouldbetomyunderstandingdirectlyadversetoouraimsonwateraloneNowifthereisplentyoftimewhereItherecanbeacoordinatedmeetingorameetingheldtocoordinatethethinkinginColoraoofallheagencieswhyitwillbeperfectlyallrightwithme GOVMcNICHOLSIMRSPARKSMRPETERSONGOVMcNICHOLSMRSAUNDERSIGOVmcNICHOLSlJjItdoesntdousanygoodtocoordinatetheagenciesifwearentgoingtocoordinatetheirthinkingIthinkMrPetersonthatIcangettogetherwiththeseotherDepartmentheadsrightawayandseewhattimetheyaregoingtomeeteveryonethatisconcernedandthatwecoulddraftupastatementofourpositionandsubmitittoourrespectiveboardsbymailforreviewThismeetingyouspokeofasbeinghereinDenverwouldthatbetoolatetotakeactiononitIthinkwecangettheseboardstogetherTheycanbecontactedbymailortelephoneorwireIfitisreallythatimportantwecangetitdonebutIthinkweoughttogivethemanopportunityeachagencythatisvitallyaffectedtoseethisthingbeforesomebodygoesoffonhisownMrChairmanIthinktheGovernorssuggestionisentirelyfeasiblefromatimingstandpointThepresentWildernessBillisdeaditdiedwiththe85thCongressAnewbillwillhavetobeintroducedTherewillberepresentationmadebypeoplefromColoradoonthehearingsthatarebeingheldinAlbuquerqueIhavereadtheonebeingmadebytheStateChamberofCommerceandIamsureeveryoneherewouldbeverywellpleasedThereisavigorousverynicelystatedpositionfromtheSoilConservationAssociationMrSteadmanfromthatdepartmentwillbeinAlbuquerqueandwillmakeastatementonbehalfoftheStateofColoradoandhehasaskedforastatementfromtheColoradoWaterCongresssohewillhavesomestatementsintherecordWhenthenewbillcomesoutwillbetimeenoughIthinkforustopresentthiscoordinatedviewpointbeingreferredtohereIthinkbeforeanybodywhetheritistheSoilConservationServiceoranyotherservicegoestoapublicplacetoapublic 1titMRBARNARDJRmeetingbeforetheymakeastatementfortheStateofColoradothattheseagenciesthatareeffectedoughttogettoseethestatementThatshappenedtoustimeandtimeagainAdepartmentwillgobackandmakeastatementinacongressionalcommitteethatdoesntrepresentthethinkingofthemineralindustryatallormaybeonlyasmallpartofitIThatstheentirepurposeforaresourcedepartmentsothatanybodythatspeaksforthisStateisreallygoingtospeakforitaftereverybodyhasachancetohaveacrackatwhattheyaresayingIthinkitisveryimportantthatwedothisotherwisewearegoingtogetinthesamepositioninregardtowatermattersthatwehavegottenintotimeandtimeagainThatsreallytheverycruxofthematterfordevelopingaDepartmentofResourcestoactuallyboilthesethingsdownandgiveeverybodyachancetostudythesethingsupalittlebitWehavetimeifthebillasyousayisdeadanditmustbeasCongresshasadjournedthenweoughttogetthisstatementpreparedandleteverybodytakealookatitThatswhatwewantGovernorIthinkthatwasthesenseofwhatIwasproposingbutIdobelievethatiftheDirectorisgoingtobecoordinatingwithotheragenciesheoughttoatleasthavesomethingindicatingthesenseofthisBoardinrespecttowhatthepositionoftheStateofColoradooughttobenotforapublicpresentationbutguidanceincoordinatingwiththeotheragenciesIthinktheBoardcouldveryproperlyexpressitssentimentasbeinginsupportofthemultipleusetheoryasopposedtothehighlyrestrictedusetheoryandthenhesIgottogototheGameandFishBoardandtheyaregoingtohavetodothesamethingIfweallwaitforsomeoneelsetomakeastatementthinkwhat GOVMcNICHOLSIMRPETERSONGOVMcNICHOLSHIthinkwhatIoughttodoisdesignatesomeagencyasthecoordinatingagencyforthispurposethenwecangetsomethingdonewithitSincethematterhascomeupherewemightgivesomeconsiderationtothatthatonthisparticularquestiontheBoardbethecoordinatingagencyandhavethemgettheotheragenciestogetherMrChairmanIthinkthefactthattheStateSoilConservationandthattheWaterCongressaregoingtomakeastatementforallofColoradoatthisAlbuquerquemeetingthatsetsthetimetherethatIwasspeakingaboutastowhenwewouldhavealookatitorbeabletomakeourrecommendationsfromthewaterstandppintasfaraswhatrecommendationsshallbemadeasapartoftheStateofColoradosNowthemeetinghasalreadybeensetinAlbuquerquesothereforeIthinkthatIwouldgoalongwithMrBarnardsstatementthatwecangetthesentimentofourBoardherethroughamotionandthenhowitistobecarriedoutthroughacoordinatedefforttotryandgetalltheStateofColoradotomakeastatementorsomeonerepresentingalltheStateofColoradotomakeastatementthatrepresentsalloftheagenciesisafinethingandIwouldsurelygoalongwiththatWellthisisSenatorAndersonsmeetingisntit7MRBARNARDJRYesGOVMcNICHOLSWellwearegoingtogetachancetoappearbeforeSenatorAndersonscommitteeMRBARNARDJRIIdontthinkitnecessaryforustoshootfortheFridaydatebutwiththisunderstandingIthoughtitwasapparentlyitisntandIthinkMrSaundersiscorrectthatwewillhavetimetodoitMyideawasmerelytoexpressthesentimentofthisBoardsothatMrSparksorwhoeveriscoordinatingfortheBoardwillhavethepolicyoftheBoardinmindintryingtoworkoutajointstatementNowthatdoesntbindusto lZObGOVMcNICHOLSMRBARNARDJRMRSPARKSanythingifsomethingcomesuplaterthatindicatesareversalThisisafamilymatteritisnotapublicmatteritisafamilymatteruntilthestateisagreedAsfarastheWaterCongressisconIcernedtheWaterCongresswillnotspeakfortheStateofColoradoofficiallyitcantandneverwilltrytobutitwillspeakforthosewateruserswhoareparticipantsinandsupportersoftheorganizationtotheextenttheywererepresentedatthemeetinglastSaturdayPersonallyIwillhavetotalkwithmyexecutivecommitteeaboutthisbutpersonallyinyiewofthispossibilityIwouldrathernotmakeastatementatAlbuquerqueandwaituntilwearereadytogoThentheWaterCongresswillbeindetailcoordinatedalsoasaprivateorganizationwiththeofficialorganizationoftheStateofColoradoIfwecangotoSenatorAndersonscommitteewhenthetimecomesforustogotherewithaunifiedstatementofeveryagencyintheStateincludingtheWaterCongressandeverybodyelseisntthatbetterIthinkverydefinitelyitissomysuggestionwasjusttoexpressthesentimentofthisBoardtogiveMrSparkssomethingtoworkonWiththisexceptionGovernorThesemeetingsarebeingheldforaspecificpurposeThebillisbeingrewrittenIthinkthethoughtbehindhavingsomebodytestifyattheAlbuquerquemeetingortheSaltLakemeetingorwherevertheymaybewastoindicatethattherewassomeoppositiontothebillratherthanletthesehearingsbeheldthroughoutthewestandnobodyappeartoopposethemNowtheWaterCongressdoesnotrepresenttheofficialviewpointoftheStateofColoradoThereisnoquestioninmymindbutwhattheysaythereisgoingtorepresentusandatleastwecangetsomeoppositioninwithoutmakinganofficialstatementNeitherdoestheSoilConservationServiceitisprimarilyaFederalagencyandI IMRSAUNDERSGOVMcNICHOISIlLlitdoesnotrepresenttheStateofColoradosowegetsomeoppositiontothisbillinawaythatdoesnottieourhandsatallMrChairmanthemotionasactuallywordedwastoopposetheWildernesslegislationbillInanypublicstatementthatIhavemadeIhaveavoidedtheuseofthetermopposeoropposethatIbelievethereisaproperplaceforwildernessareasbutthislegislationwedontthinkrefersproperlytothatIbelievethethingcouldbeofmorestrikingforcewithamorepositivestatementWeareinfavoroftheuseoffederallyownedlandsinthewesttheybeingabouthalfourtotalareaforthebestusesforallofthepeopleandforallpurposesandthatifthereisconflictsofar1believethatthoseofuswhoareconcernedwiththewaterinterestswebelievethebeneficialconsumptiveuseofwatermightcomeaheadofeveryotherconsiderationThatsrightandthatiswhatouragencyisdesignedtodoIpersonallyworkedfortwoorthreeyearsonthemultipleuseofpubliclandsbillinvolvingthemineralindustryandtheoilindustryTheoilindustryhasatremendousstakeinthemultipleuseofpubliclandsandweworkedforbetterthantwoyearsingettingthatlegislationestablishedandintotheCongresstheMultipleUseofPublicLandsBillThatswhatbroughtittomymindmorethananythingelseIfwehadhadhelpinthebackingofthisStategovernmentinaDepartmentofResourcesintheestablishmentofthatbillratherthanhavingtohavetheprivateoilpeopleandtheprivatemineralpeopledoingthisontheirownwhichissomethingtheyshouldnthavetodoifwedidthatwecanthenlookintotherightsofagricultureparksrecreationthewholethingthatweareinterestedinWehaveaDepartmentofParksandRecreationinourStateandIthinkthateverybodyoughttogetachancetolookatthissothatifweneedtomakeanyoppositionortakeastandonthingslikethisitisacoordinatedstand LvOMRPETERSONMRSTAPLETONMRBURRMRSTAPLETONMRMOSESMRSTAPLETONMRPETERSONMRSPARKSMRSTAPLETONMrChaimanperhapsthewordingofmymotionwasnotallconclusiveandIthereforewouldliketowithdrawmymotionandifsomeoftheattorneysaroundherecouldmakeamotiontoincludealloftheramificationstocoordinateoursentimentsitwouldbefinewithmeIWhowasthesecond7IwithdrawmysecondThemotionhasnowbeenwithdrawnWouldMrMosestheattorneyfortheBoardphrasethepropermotionunderthecircumstancesonethattheBoardmemberscanadopt7LetmetryandIwillbringitinafterlunchWewilldeferfinalactiononthismatteruntilafterlunchIwouldsuggestthattheBoardadjournorrecessratheruntil145atwhichtimewewillagainconveneIwouldlikehowevertointroducethreepeoplefromtheFederalGovernmentMrKnightsisherefromRegionNo7willyoustandupsowecanallgreetyouWearegladtohaveyouwithusMrMillerandMrMcLaughlinfromtheUSGSwearegladtohaveyouwithusalsoIthinkthenifthereisnoobjectionMrPetersonhasamattertodiscussIwouldliketoasktheChaimanortheDirectoriftheyhaveanyideahowlongitwilltakethisafternoontoconcludeourbusinessIthinkgentlemenwearejustaboutthroughIwouldsayanhourwoulddoitIWewillreconveneat145Themeetingreconvenedat145PMandwascalledtoorderbyViceChaimanStapleton MRSTAPLETONIMRSPARKSIHGentlemenitisnow145andwewillcallthemeetingtoorderagainWewillaskourattorneyifhehasareporttomakeJustaminuteRayIdontbelievetheBoardmembershavemetourstaffIthinkyouallknowourChiefEngineerMrGildersleeveandnexttohimisMrCyRixfordwhoisanassociatehydraulicengineeranddoesallofourdraftingBothCyandGilhavebeenwiththeBoardforagoodmanyyearsashasthenextgentlemananotherassociatehydraulicengineerMrMcLauthlinThesethreegentlemenparticularlycanshowyouanythingintheWaterBoardofficeyouwantatanytimethelibraryoranythingelseTheyaremoreacquaintedwithwhattheBoardhasinthewayofinformationthananybodyelseonthestaffIthinkbetweenthosethreegentlemenwehaveprobablygotaboutfiftyyearsofserviceontheWaterBoardThesearethreesocalledCivilServiceemployeesandwithalltheirfiftyyearshaveneverbeencertifiedNextisMrRizviwhoisanativeofIndianotacitizenoftheUnitedStatesandthereforeisnoteligibleforaCivilServiceappointmentHehasaMastersdegreeinengineeringhasworkedfortheBureauofReclamationandhasbeenwiththisBoardnowabouttwoyearsWeappointhimeverysixmonthsonaprovisionalappointmentHehastakenouthiscitizenshippapersandwillsoonbeacitizenoftheUnitedStatesandcancasthisvoteNexttoAhmedisDickPearlwhojustgraduatedfromColoradoUniversitywithadegreeinengineeringandamajoringeologyHeisnewontheBoardWesendhimoutonoursurveypartiesandheispickingupthingsrapidlyHeisnotonlytheyoungestbutalsothenewestmemberofthestaffHewashiredjustSeptember1st 160ThenoverhereisMrKuiperwhoistheSupervisingHydraulicEngineerHetookPhilMutzsplaceavacancywhichhasexistedforIthinksomethreeyearsnowandisoneofthekeymembersofourstaffMrKuiperisagraduateengineerandhashadalotofexperienceinwatermattersHewaspreviouslywiththeBureauofReclamationandwasCityEngineerorManagerofPublicWorksIthinktheycallitfortheCityofAurorabeforehecamewiththeBoardHecamewiththeBoardonthe1stofAugustMrBoydstontheSeniorHydraulicEngineerisouttolunchIImightmentionjustalittlebitGiltheChiefEngineerhastheresponsibilityofcoordinatingtheactivitiesoftheengineeringstaffInthatconnectionhehastoberesponsiblefortheoveralloperationofthestaffMrKuiperbeingSupervisingHydraulicEngineerhasbeenchargedwithcertainstudiesoneofthemtheGlenCanyonstudythepowerfeaturesofitandhasalsobeeninchargeofthefieldcrewwhichhasbeenoverontheWesternSlopetryingtolocatereservoirsitesthereCyasIhavealreadystateddoesallofourdraftingworkkeepsourrecordsontheNorthParkthatwearechargedwithundertheSupremeCourtdecisiondoesallthedraftingthatwehavethemapsthatweproduceandallthatMrMcLauthlinkeepsourwatersupplystudiesparticularlyintheArkansasValleyHeisourexpertonallofourwatersupplystudiesandourdailyrecordsthatwekeephetabulatesallthoseAhmedisbeingusedinconnectionwithourfieldpartyontheWesternSlopeandhehasalsobeenassistingintheColoradoRiverstudyandDickhasalsobeenamemberofourfieldcrewoursurveypartyandisassistingwhereverheisneededonanyofthesewatersupplystudiesThatsitgentlementhankyouverymuchforcomingupIMRSTAPLETONMrMosesmaybehavetheproposedmotion7 IIMRMOSESMRSTAPLETONMRPETERSONMRBURRMRSTAPLETONMRSPARKSHblIwillpresentthisforyourconsiderationMovedthatitisthesenseofthisBoardthateverythingpossiblebedonetoencouragethemostefficientmultipurposeuseofnaturalresourcesonnationallyownedlandsbearinginmindthatthebeneficialconsumptiveuseofwaterisofparamountimportanceandthattheDirectorcoordinatehiseffortswiththeotherinterestedstateagenciestotheendthataunifiedpositiononthepartoftheStateofColoradobedevelopedWouldsomebodyliketoadoptthatmotionImovetheadoptionoftheresolutionSecondthemotionIsthereanydiscussionAllthoseinfavorwillsignifybysayingayethoseopposedthesameThemotioniscarriedThenextmattercomesuprightinlinewiththeintroductionofthestaffandthatisBoardstaffadditionsDoyouhaveanythingelseyouwouldliketoaddunderthatitemontheagendaMrSparksWeleftthemattersomewhatupintheairatthelastmeetingformorespecificrecommendationsastoadditionstothestaffTheBoardauthorizedthreepeopletwoofthoseIhavemadeatentativedecisiononatthisdateonthethirdonewearestilldoingsomeexploratoryworkastowhomthatpersonshouldbeandwhathisdutiesshouldbeThetwothatIwouldverymuchliketoseeaddedtothestaffwouldbetwoprojectplanningengineersonetobearesidentengineerofwesternColoradotheothertobeaddedtoourpermanentBoardstaffhereinDenverIthinkwehavegoneintothereasonswhyitisdesiroustohaveastaffengineerontheWesternSlopeManyproblemsthatariseovertheremakeitverydifficultbothdifficultandexpensivetodoadequateliaisonworkoverthereThisFryingpanArkansasisone 1262MRPETERSONMRSPARKSMRSTAPLETONMRSPARKShMRPETERSONMRSTAPLETONMRBARNARDJRthingwherearesidentengineercouldhavebeenofvaluableservicetousalreadyifwehadhimoverthereTheprojectsnowintheplanningstageandwhichundoubtedlywillbeconstructedIovertheresomeofwhichareunderconstructionnowtotalintheneighborhoodofahalfabilliondollarsanditmeansthatwehavealotofdetailedplanningtodoincoordinationwithalotofstateboardsthatarealreadyinexistenceovertheretogetherwiththeBureauofReclamationregionalofficesIhavenoparticularpersoninmindforthatjobbutIwouldliketobeabletorecommendtotheLegislatureatthiscomingsessionthatoneofouradditionalpersonnelbearesidentengineerinwesternColoradoIsthereanydiscussiononthis7ItdoesntrequireanyactiononthepartofthisBoardwehavealreadytakenactiononthatIbelievethatisrightDoesthatinvolveyouwillprobablyhousehimofficewiseorsomeotherofficefacilitydowehaveanythinginthebudgetforanythingotherthansalary7IthinkwewillbeabletotakecareofitinthisnextbudgetallrightifthebudgetgoesthroughinthewayitiscontemplatedImightsayMrifwehaveanengineerconfinedtoanofficehimoutinthefieldChairmanIhopethatoverthereheisnotIwouldliketoseeIagreebuthehastohaveaplacetohanghishatandkeephisrecordsandIjustwonderedwhatwehadinmindinthewayofofficespaceetcIPersonallyIwouldsuggestthatyouwouldhavetolookintothethoughtofhavingtheofficesomewherenearthatoftheRiverDistrictbecauseIthinkwehavetobearinmindastheDirectorhasallalongthatthatistheofficialagencyforwesternColoradoand IIMRPETERSONMRBARNARDJRMRSTAPLETONMRSPARKS1b3theyaredoingmuchthesamethinganditwouldmakeitmucheasiertocoordinateIwouldliketomakethiscommentregardingthatlocationIthinkitwouldbemoreimportantthathisheadquartersbeclosertotheBureauofReclamationofficethanitwouldbetotheColoradoRiverDistrictofficeIthinkperhapsitwouldbemoreconvenientforhimtobeclosertotheBureauofficeIjustmadethesuggestiontotheDirectorthatthatbekeptinmindWeinterruptedyourreportLarryIamgladtohavesuggestionsAlotdependsontheindividualwherewecanfindhimItisalittledifficulttopickupapersonwhohasthenecessarybackgroundforthistypeofjobIamnotthinkingofsomebodynewtothistypeofworkforeitheroneoftheseengineeringspotsTheywillbetopspotswhichmeansthatwhoeveroccupiesthemisgoingtohavetohavehadagreatdealofexperiencealreadyThepersonnelproblemistoughthereTheotheroneIwouldliketohavestationedhereintheDenverofficeAtsometimesduringthepastmonthorsowehavegottendowntowherewehaveonlyhadoneortwoengineersavailableforworkthatcameupTheresthavebeenoutonspecialjobsorworkingonspecialjobsWeareextremelyshorthandedWehavehadtopullpeoplefromonejobtoanotherwhichisnotdesirableAsurveypartyforinstancetooperateefficientlytakesfourmenwhichleavesuswiththreeintheofficetheChiefandtwoothersTheChiefhasbeenworkingonboththeGlenCanyontheFryingpanArkansasandtheSanJuanBasinsimultaneouslyThedraftsmanandoneengineerMrMcLaughlinareoccupiedfulltimestrictlyforadministrativedutiesoftheofficeTheyaretwopeoplewhoperformtheadministrativeduties 1264MRMcCANDLESSMRBARNARDJRWehavebeenextremelyshorthandedonpeopletowhomwecouldassignspecificresponsibilityforaparticularjobMrGildersleeveMrKuiperandMrBoydstonarepeoplewhocanbedependedupontoassumeIresponsibilityforparticularprojectsHoweveratthepresenttimeonlyMrGildersleeveandMrKuiperarecapableoftakingfieldpartiesanddoingallthenecessaryfieldworkTheotherpeoplecandoitundersomesupervisionbuttheyhavenothadsufficienttrainingbelieveitornotaslongastheyhavebeenheretoactuallyhandlefieldworksothethirdengineertheotherengineerwouldhavetobeapersonwhocouldalsotakeafieldpartyandwhocouldplanthenecessaryexploratoryworkIthinkIindicatedtotheBoardatthelastmeetingthattherewasaverygoodpossibilitythatwecouldpickupsuchamanoutattheFederalCenterbecauseoftheirtransferofpersonnelandasIanticipatedIwastippedoffonthissomemonthsagoOneofthetopmenouttherewillshortlybetransferredfromDenvertoanotherstateandhedoesnotwishtogoHeisnowtheAssistantAreaEngineerfortheCorpsofEngineerswhichmeanshehasbeeninchargeoftheofficeandhewillbeavailableforemploymentveryshortlyWecanputhimonacontractbasisoutofthespeciallegalandengineeringfundatthepresenttimeIfwearegoingtogethimwearegoingtohavetogethimwithinthenextthirtydaysIconsiderhimoneofthetopqualifiedmenHehashadyearsofexperienceinthistypeofworkparticularlyinprojectplanningThatisaboutthesizeofmyreportatthepresenttimeIwouldliketobeauthorizedtoputthismanonifitturnsoutthatheisgoingtobetransferredashenowsuspectsIthoughtwedidthatatthelastmeetingIImovethattheDirectorbeauthorizedtoemploythisindividualonacontractbasisifhebecomesavailableforemployment IIlUvMRBURRSecondthemotionMRSTAPLETONAnydiscussiononthemotionAllthoseinfavorwillsignifybysayingayeopposedthesameThemotioniscarriedMRBARNARDJRArewestillonthisagendaitemMRSTAPLETONBoardstaffadditionsYesMRBARNARDJRIthinkitwouldbeappropriatetomentionsomethingelseatthisparticulartimeratherthanlateronThemembershipoftheWaterCongressatitsmeetinglastweekwaspresentedwiththisproposalforanincreaseinthebudgetoftheWaterBoardfortheadditionalstaffmembersMrSparkshasreferredtoTheCongressunanimouslysupportedthatrequestandaskedtheExecutiveCommitteetodowhatevermaybehelpfulinrespecttotheLegislaturewhenitconvenesWewillleaveitthiswayyouletusknowwhatwecandoandwewilldoitMRSPARKSIheardaboutthatJohnIfwilltakecertainlyallthehelpwecangetIdoknowOurbudgetisgoingtobeincreasedslightlyoverourlastyearsbudgetAnytimeyouincreaseyourbudgetthenyouhavegottopresentaprettygoodargumentinfavorofitandIcertainlyanticipatethatanyonefromtheWaterCongresswhocanparticipateinthehearingsbeforetheWaterResourcesCommitteesandtheAppropriationsCommitteeIamgoingtoinformthemofeverymeetingandastowhattheycandoMRBARNARDJRIfyouwillletmeknowIwillgetitouttotheareachairmenandtotheExecutiveCommitteeimmediatelyLetmeknowwhenthehearingswillbeandwellgetthereWenotonlyhavethisproblembutwealsohavetheproblemasyouknowofcontinuingthe50000forspeciallegalandengineeringandthe100000lumpsumappropriationforcooperativestudiesanywhereintheStateMRSPARKS lZbbMRBARNARDJRWecansupportallofthoseunderourprogramMRSTAPLETONMRBARNARDJRNowunderItem8SpecialMeetinginDecemberIthinkitissufficientfortherecordtoannouncethatwearetryingtoplanameetingforDecember9thoftheBoardwiththeCongressionaldelegationoftheStateandthattheDirectorwilleitherhaveitonthe9thoronthe11thattheconvenienceofourSenatorsandCongressmenYouwillbeinformedinduetimeandwithanagendaandprogramtodiscusswithourCongressionaldelegationUnderotherBusinessIthinkthisBoardwouldberemissinnotcongratulatingJohnBarnardJrasamemberofourBoardforthehandlingoftheWaterCongresslastweekSomeofthemembersofthisBoardwerepresentClarenceDavemyselfJohnofcourseanditwasamosthighlysuccessfulwellattendedmeetingIamsuretheCongresswaswellpleasedwiththeresultsandwearedelightedthatJohniscontinuinginthatcapacityasChairmanInlinewiththatwewouldliketohaveyougiveusashortreportaboutwhathappenedwhereyoustandandwhereyouaregoingFirstIthinkyouhaveallmetCharlieFiskHeisSecretaryTreasureroftheCongressandwasreelectedassuchandhasbeenprincipallyresponsiblefortheWaterCongressNewsletterfoureditionsofwhichhavebeensehtouttoallthemembersIBywayofreportintheelectionofofficersIwasreelectedChairmanJSelbyYoungofColoradoSpringswaselectedViceChairmanMrFiskreelectedasSecretaryTreasurerandonourExecutiveCommitteeHaroldChristywhoisColoradoDirectoronItheNationalReclamationAssociationisanexofficiomemberoftheExecutiveCommitteeInadditiontherewaselectedtotheExecutiveCommitteefromtheeightareasJohnBBarnardSrClarenceBurrJackHughes 1267WilliamSEakesClarenceQuinlanCharlesBousteadJRBarkleyandGlennSaundersasmembersoftheExecutiveCommitteeThatwasthefirstorderofbusinessIFridayafternoonweheardanaddressbyHatfieldChilsononessentiallythenationalwaterdevelopmentproblemandtheimportanceofwaterdevelopmenttotheStateofColoradoandtheimportanceofastrongunifiedstateprograminobtainingthatdevelopmentWeheardanaddresslateronthatafternoonbyMrCarlHerzmaninconnectionwiththeColoradoWatershedConservationAssociationanorganizationwhichwasorganizedalongdifferentlinesthantheCongressandwhichhasacomplishedagreatdealinthepastthreeyearsbutwithoutperhapstheStatelevelstrengththattheCongresshasalreadybeenabletobuildupInthatconnectionthefollowingdaywiththeapprovaloftheRulesCommitteeitwasdecidedthatweshouldappointajointcommitteetoworkwiththatassociationlookingtoaneventualmergeroftheseorganizationsITheExecutiveCommitteeauthorizedtheTechnicalCommitteeoftheCongresstobegintokickaroundthequestionofundergroundwaterandalsoappointajointcommitteewiththeColoradoBarAssociationWaterSectiontoworkonaprogramforthereviewofthewateradministrationstatutesintheStateofColoradosomethingthathaslongbeendueAlsoonethingthatcameouttodayinconnectionwiththisfilmitsthehopeintheWaterCongressthateventuallywewillhavefinancialsupportsufficienttoreallyhaveapublicinformationprogramintheStateofColoradoinrespecttowaterIfthattimeisreachedwhenthisfilmisavailablewehopetobeabletoaddressalltheRotaryClubsServiceClubsandvariousorganizationsthatwepossiblycanIthinkIwouldnotviolatemyauthoritytooffertheservicesoftheWaterCongressindistributingthatfilmthroughouttheStateofColoradoshowingitatthesemeetingsetcandbythesametokenitwouldbeagreathelptohaveittographicallypresentthesewaterproblemsandtheirimportancetotheStateofColorado 1268SecondlywehadalongdiscussionagainaboutthefinancialsupportoftheCongressSofarwehavemaintainedasrigorouslyaspossibletheprinciplesofvoluntaryfinancialsupportbutthesuggestionhasbeenmadethatItheorganizationoughttoseeksomelegislativeappropriationortaxtypeofsupportfromtheStateofColoradoMypersonalfeelingwasandourcommitteesoreportedthatthiswouldcreateanotheragencythatwouldduplicatetoacertainextentthefunctionsofthisBoardandnoneofuswanttodothatsoconsequentlytheCongressunanimouslyrejectedtheconceptofStatefundsupportexceptasanentitymemberWefeelthatasaprivateorganizationresponsibletotheindividualsandentitieswhoareinterestedinwaterwecancontinuetoreceivefinancialsupportsolongasourprogramisonewhichjustifiessupportandasMrSparkshassaidtodayandaswehaverepeatedamilliontimesthebiggestpartofourprogramistofillthegapbetweentheofficialagenciesoftheStatewhoaredoingagoodjobandthepeoplewhodontknowaboutitandviceversaThatsthegapwearetryingtofillWearenotduplicatingthefunctionsofthisBoardinanyrespectwhatsoeverWethinktoacertainextentwehavealreadyhadsomesuccessalongthoselinesandwethinkthatourcontinuedsuccesswilldependonavigorousprogramwhichwilljustifyfinancialsupportNowasfarastheprogramswhichtheExecutiveCommitteewasauthorizedtoundertakeforthecomingyearinadditiontowhateverelsemightcomeupthatisapprovedbytheRulesCommitteewewanttolookintothepossibilityofcreatingaStatewaterdevelopmentfundTherehasbeenalotofinterestfromlocalareasinsuchafundforprojectsthatarenoteligibleforFederalparticipationbyvirtueofsizeorotherconsiderationRightnowwehaveaprojectwheretheprincipleproblemisobtainingIthefinancingTheyarelookingatthevariouswaysoftryingtodoitanditisadifficultproblemwithoutsomekindofaStatewaterdevelopmentrevolvingCfundLegislationandsoforthisalongwayoffanditwilltakequitealittlework 1269IAsItoldyoubeforewevotedtosupportinanywaythatwecaninanywaythatisneededtheproposaloftheWaterBoardforenoughmoneytogetenoughpeopletogetthejobdoneImightsayinthatconnectionwehadLegislatorspresentandwehadalotofpeoplewhoarenotedfortheirconservatisminrespecttoStatefundsandIthinkweallagreedthatthisisessentialWedontwanttowastetaxmoneywedontwanttothrowitawaybutasmanyofthesepeoplepointedouttherearealotofthingstheStateofColoradocouldcutoutinordertoprovidesufficientmoneytoprotectanddevelopitswaterWevotedtoopposetheproposedWildernesslegislationTheexactformofthatoppositionwillofcoursebedeterminedbytheExecutiveCommitteeonthebasisofthetheoriesexpressedbyMrSaunderstodayWearenotopposedtorecreationbyanystretchoftheimaginationwethinkthattheycanbeworkedtogetherbutwedofeelthattheconsumptiveuseofwaterbypersonsisoreimportantthanmaintainingprimitiveareasifthereisaconflictandthereisntalwaysOfcourseIthinkalsoweoughttointroducelegislationtorestoreManhattanIslandtoitsprimitivestateAslongasthepeoplebacktherewanttohavethesewildernessareasletshaveonewheretheycangetatithandilyIWealsoaregoingtolookintotheFederalownershipandadministrativequestionasmuchaswecanandprobablywillproposegivingconsiderationtothisBoardforaprogramWealsohaveagreedtoworkoutapossiblemergerwiththeWatershedAssociationWeaffirmedoursupporttoHaroldChristyasDirectoroftheNationalReclamationAssociationforColoradoandGlennSaundersasamemberoftheResolutionsCommitteeandinstructedthepeoplethereattheColoradocaucustotrytoworkoutarelationshipanaturalrelationshipbetweentheColoradoWaterCongressastheColoradoReclamationAssociationtosupporttheNationalReclamationAssociationinthosematterswheretheNationalReclamationAssociationhasaninterestOneofthethingsthatcompelledtheorganizationoftheCongresswasthelackofsuchanassociationintheStateofColoradoandweweretheonlyoneofthe17statesthatdidlackit 1270TheCongressvotedapprovaloftheexistingprogramoftheWaterBoardinrespecttoGlenCanyonandwillencouragethecontinuanceofthattoasuccessfulconclusionLastweekandIwanttomakespecificmentionofthisasIsaywehaventworkedoutthedetailswetalkedaboutitsometimebeforeandthatsastudyofthesituationinrespecttotheRioGrandeCompactandtheSanLuisValleyNowaconsultingengineerfortheBoardsometimeagosurveyedthethingbuthenevercametoanyconclusionsandrecommendedfurtherstudyIthinkweareallawareofthefactthereissomethingwrongwiththeRioGrandeCompactTherearepossibleandIsaypossiblemethodsofsolvingColoradosproblemunderthatCompactthatwehaventgoneintothoroughlyAnyquestionofdefendingalawsuitrenegotiatingthecompactormakingupthedeficiencyofdeliverywillhavetobebasedonathoroughevaluationnotonlyofthepresentsituationbutthesituationthatexistedatthetimethecompactwasenteredintobecauseitwasassumedatthattimethatColoradounderthecompactcouldntaccrueadebitofmorethan50000acrefeetNowsomethingiswrongbecausethishascertainlyhappenedtentimesthatatthepresenttimeandthemanwhomadethatassumptionwasnofoolinrespecttowatermattersItwasMrHinderliderhisreportonthecompactbutinordertofindoutwhathappenedofcoursetherearepeoplethatcomeupwithpatanswersthishashappenedandwhilenoneofthemaretotallytrueallofthemhavepossibilitiesInordertodothisitisgoingtotakesomebodyalotoftimetoreviewthecompactthebasisofthecompactthepresentsituationtoseewhatswrongandIthinkthepeopleintheSanLuisValleydeservethatthatkindofworkbedonetofindoutwhatcanbedonebecausesoonerorlaterunlesswemakeupthosedeliverieswewillhavealawsuitonthethingandwearenotgoingtobereadyforitunlesswegetstartednowSuchaprogramofcoursewouldhavetobeundertakenbytheoardWehopetobeabletopresenttotheBoardaprogramforthatstudywhichyouwillfinditpossibletoacceptII IIMRFISKMRSTAPLEIDNMRBARNARDJR1271ImightinthatconnectionmakethisoneobservationtheStateEngineerfromNewMexicoaprettysharpindividualsaidthatinhisopinionsomethinghecantprovebutinhisopinionthechangeofNewMexicofromadebittoacreditstatuswhilewewerestillinadebitstatuswastheresultofthechannelrectificationandphreatophytecontrolprogramsintheStateofNewMexicoThiswasaFederalprogramandwasdonebecausetheyknewitwascostingthemwateranditdidchangetheirpositionunderthecompactWehaveneverdoneanyworkintheStateofColoradotofindoutwhetherornotwehaveasimilarproblemAnotherpointisthatalotofthepeopledowntherefeelthatbyvirtueofgeographicalchangeswaterisgoingpastthegagingstationsforwhichwearenotgettingcreditNowofcoursethereareotherswhohavetheeasyanswertheysaywhatweneedismorerainbutasIsayinviewofwhatwedoknowaboutthecompactweknowthatisnottheansweratallThereissomethingwrongsoIhopethatwhenwedodeveloptheproperprogramwhichissupposedtobeamatterofimportanceaswasapprovedbytheWaterCongressthisBoardwilltakeactionIthinkthataboutsizestosayaboutourproceedingshaveanythingtoaddupwhatIhaveCharliedoyouIdontbelievesoJohnYouhavecovereditprettycompletelyThankyouJohnAreallthemembersoftheWaterBoardonyourmailinglistoftheCongressirrespectiveofwhetherornottheyaremembers1NehadquiteatusselaboutthatbecausetherearealotofsmallagenciesandlargeagencieswhohavecontributedfinancialsupportWethinkinthefirstplaceanyonewhohasthiskindofaninterestinwatershouldhaveasufficientinterestinobtainingtheNewsletter LZIZMRSTAPLETONMRBARNARDJxMRMcCANDLESSMRBARNARDJRMRSTAPLETONwhichcostsusmoneytosendoutandjoinasanindividualmemberandwearehopefulthatallmembersoftheBoardwilldosoTheduesare1000ayearandyoucanstopatmyofficeifyoucaretojoinAtmydiscretionIcansendoutfreecopiesoftheNewsletterbutItrynottodoitunlessitisabsolutelynecessaryWewouldliketohavetheBoardgettheNewsletterbutwewouldliketogetthe1000alsoNooneisonourmailinglistwiththeexceptionofthenewspapersandmembersoftheWaterCongressTheyaretheoneswhohavereceivedthemthismonthWethinkitworththemoneythatyoupayforittooIIrealizeyourneedforduesetcandIwouldencourageallofustobecomemembersoftheCongressIftheyarenotIwouldaskthattheExecutiveCommitteestronglyrecommendthattheYbegivenmailingprivilegesAfterallwearetryingtoworkverycloselywithyouwesupportedyouAllthesepeoplehereareinapositionwheretheygiveconsiderabletimeandeffortandiftheyfeeltheycantbemembersIwouldappreciateitifwekeepthemonthemailinglistWehavehadthatprobleminrespecttosomeotheragenciesSofarwehaventhadanytroubleabouitTworeasonsinthefirstplacewewantpeopletogetthisinformationbutIhavefoundthistobetrueifitdoesntcostthemanythingtheyarenotgoingtoreaditItsgoingtobemorejunkmailbutiftheyareputtingtheirstuffonthepottheyaregoingtoseewhattheyarepayingforvellJohnweputin50000TheStateofColoradodidyoudidntIMaybesomeofthememberscangettheirwivestogivethemamembershipforChristmasAtanyrateIthoughtyouwouldliketoknowmyfeelingsaboutsomeinformation 1273IUnderOtherBusinessIhavemissedallthewisecounselandtalkofourattorneyIdontknowwhetherhethinksheismuzzledbecausehehasbeenpromotedornotbutIwouldliketohearfromhimanyremarksthathewouldliketomakeatthistimeMRMOSESMrChairmanIfindthatwhenIgotomeetingsofotherBoardsofDirectorsforwhomIamattorneythatsometimesIattempttomonopolizetheconversationandIhavetriednottodothatheretodayIwillbehappytoreportOnwhatIhavebeendoingsincethelastmeetingIattendedadraftingmeetingwithGovernorJohnsonandothersontheresolutionwhichwaspresentedbyhimtotheUpperColoradoRiverCommissionmeetingandwhichwastakenunderadvisementasyouaeawareuntilthenextmeetingoftheCommissionItwastheresolutionwhichthisBoardapprovedatitslastmeetingIattendedtheUpperColoradoRiverCommissionmeetingonSeptember23rdand24thinSantaFeIhavereviewedaninterimreportonthemainstemoftheRioGrandeaboveElephantButteDampreparedbytheCorpsofEngineersandmadesomecommentstotheDirectorconcerningthatreportHeandIaregoingtogettogetheragainshortlyafterthefirstofthemonthtodosomemoreworkonitIIhavetriedtostartbuildingupalibraryinmyownofficeofsomeofthemoreimportantdocumentswhichneedtobereferredtomoreorlessdaytodayandLarryhassentmeconsiderablestuffandIhavegottensomefromourCongressmentryingtoeducatemyselfalittlebitonsomeofthebackgroundIthinkyouallknowifyouhaveeverlookedinthelibraryoverintheWaterBoardofficethereisaconsiderableamountofreadingmatteravailableifyouwanttodosomereadingIdontexpecttoreaditallbutIexpecttoreadagoodpartofit 1274MRSTAPLETONIwasinterestedinthereportbyJohnontheWaterCongressparticularlyasitrelatestotheSanLuisValleyandtheRioGrandeCompactThisisonetimewhenIthinkwehaveanIopportunitytogetpreparedaheadoftimewhichwouldbeadeparturefromourusualpracticeofgettingpreparedafterthecrisisarisesThismatterofchannelrectificationontheRioGrandehasbeenamatterofconsiderablediscussionwithmeandtheresidentareaengineeroftheBureaudownthereandasaresultwiththehelpoftheDirectorwehavehadsomecorrespondencewiththeBureauofReclamationwhichindicatesthattheBureauwillsetupinthefiscalyear1960aprojectdowntheretomakestudiesofthatkindandwewilllookfortheBoardssupportinconnectionwiththatwhenthetimecomesImmediatelyfollowingthemeetingoftheNationalReclamationAssociationwhichIexpecttoattendIwillattendameetinginSaltLakeCityonthe24thasamemberofthelegalcommitteeoftheUpperColoradoRiverCommissionTheAttorneyGeneralofUtahistheChairmanofthatcommitteeandthemeetingistodiscusstheemploymentofanattorneyfortheCommissionandtheColoradoresolutionwhichwassubmittedatthelastmeetingIgetuphereoccasionallyandtrytomakeitapracticewhenIcantostopinandspendalittletimeattheBoardofficetofindoutifthereisanythingIcoulddotomakemyselfusefuleitherhereorathomeonBoardmattersIanticipatethatastimegoesalongIwillnolongerbelookingforjobsbutIwillbetryingtoducksomeofthemThankyouRayImightannouncetothenonlegalmembersthatinrecognitionofRaysabilityasalawyerandparticularlyasawaterlawyerheispresidentelectoftheColoradoBarAssociationwhichmeansthatheisalmostentirelyinthepublicservicefieldasalawyeratthistimeI IIMRNELSONMRSTAPLETON1275IwouldalsoliketocommentthatIparticularlyhavebeendelightedwiththenewimpetusthattheDirectorandthestaffhaveputintotheWaterBoardinitsofficeIthinkwehaveallnoticedafeelingofmoreinformationtotheBoardmembersitisalmostachoretoreadallthereportswearegettingbutwedoappreciateitandasweexpressedatlunchLarrywewereappreciativeofthisandwewanttoasBoardemberstoparticipatefullyandbefullyinformedsowecanproducethebestresultsatthesemeetingsWearedelightedwiththeresultssofarIwishanyofyouwhocanthinkofpeoplewhoarenotonourmailinglistfortheinformationbulletinsthattheDirectorispreparingandotherdocumentsthatcomeoutoftheBoardifyouhaveadditionalgroupsorpeoplewhoarentonthemailinglistwillyoupleaselettheDirectorknowasthestencilsarealreadycutandwewouldliketohavethisinformationdisseminatedtoasmanyascanuseitIwouldliketotellMrNicholsofColoradoSpringsweappreciatehisbeinghereasamemberoftheInvestigationCommissionWouldyoustandupWearedelightedtohaveyouandthankyouforgivingusyourtimeArethereanyotherthingswhichshouldcomebeforetheBoardMrChairmanIwouldliketoaacaquestionwhetherornotweshouldproposeanyfurthereffortonthematteroftheofficeoftheUpperColoradoRiverCommissionIassumeitwillcomeupagainatthenextmeetingandIassumeitwillbedefeatedbutIjustwonderediftherewasanythingwecouldorshoulddoWellIwouldgatherinalegalmannerthereisnothingwecandobuttheremaybesomecommentsfromothersUndertheByLawsItakeititisafourvotenowforitatthenextmeetingwhichisalegalrequirementandthefourvotesareavailable 1276MRMOSESMRNELSONMRSPARKSMRSTAPLETONMRSPARKSMRMOSESMRNELSONMRSPARKSThatistheindicationfromthecommentsofMrNewellattheSantaFemeetingHesaidhewouldvoteforthechangeUnlessyoucantellushowtopersuadeeitherWyomingorNewMexicotovoteagainstit1thinkitistobechangedIOfcoursewiththeGovernorschangingthatmighthavesomethingtodowithit1dontknowTheCommissionershoweverwillbethesameundoubtedlyforthenextmeetingatleastandthatsallifwouldtakeTheyareverymuchinfavorofmovingtheofficetoSaltLake1knowthattheotherstates1wouldthinktheoldCommissionerswouldatleastknowthenewGovernoranditmightbeofsomebenefittocontacthimWhydontyousuggesttoGovernorJohnsonhemightknowthenewGovernorsandmightcommunicatewiththeminadvance1thinkGovernorJohnsonisplanningonmakingastandonthat1knowheisnotgoingtochangehisvoteHowfartheywanttobuckusisanothermatterwejustdontknowWeknowthatNewMexicohasnotbeenfriendlyWyomingandUtahwellofcoursewiththeofficegoingtoUtahweknowhowUtahisgoingtovotesoitisgoingtoboildowntowhatwecandowithWyoming1wouldratherhesitatetosuggesttoGovernorJohnsonhowtoapproachamatterofpoliticalmaneuveringTheofficesforallostensiblepurposesaremovedovertherenowIthasmovedoverthereThereisnothingleftinGrandJunctionexceptsomestationeryTheymaintainanofficeofsometypebutnopersonnelI MRSTAPLETONIMRSPARKSMRBARNARDJRI1277InthatregardcanyoutelluswhatwasNewMexicosobjectionatSantaFetotheresolutionwhichweadoptedItwasrathernebulousfromwhatIcouldreadthattheywantedsomebodytotakeanothercloserlookItboilsdowntothisasfarasNewMexicoisconcernedNewMexicohasreceivedextremelyfavorabletreatmentunderPublicLaw485TheyhaveeverythingnowthattheycouldpossiblygetIsaytheyhaveittheyhavealltheirprojectsreadytogotoutilizealloftheirwaterandperhapsmoresotheirattitudesimplyboilsdowntoWellwehaveitorwearegoingtogetitsowhytakeanyactiontoupsetwhatwehaveNowthatmakesnosensetomebecausetheydonthaveityetbuttheyareprettycomplacentaboutthewholedealAsaninterestingsidelightonthatwhichIshouldhavementionedtotheBoardMrDexheimertheCommissionerofReclamationdroppedintoseemehereabouttwoweeksagoHecalledupandwantedanappointmentwhichIthoughtwasalittlestrangeTheCommissionerofReclamationIwouldhavebeenhappytomeethimanywherehewantedtoseemebutofcoursetheminutehecalledupandsaidhewouldliketohaveanappointmentatmyconvenienceweimmediatelysetoneforhimforthatafternoonIknewthenthathehadamessageandthemessagesimplyboileddowntothisInafriendlywayhesuggestedthatwebackawayfromtheColoradoresolutionInafriendlywayItriedtoexplaintohimwhywecouldntandthatsthewaythematterrestedIwouldliketohearsomediscussiononthisIdontknowthatIamfullydecidedonthisquestionofthelocationoftheofficebuttomeinthefirstplaceIdontliketoomuchthefactthattheregionalofficeisinSaltLakeIthinkUtahgetssomeprettyfavorabletreatmentAlsoalongtheselinesinthesecondplaceitjustseemstomethereissomethingwrongwhenhalfthedoughispaidbyColoradoandsomeone 1278elsedecideswhereandhowitisspentAsIsaymymindisnotmadeuponthisandmaybeitwouldbemoreofasavingforallofustohavetheofficeinSaltLakeCitybutIthinkweoughttolookatthethingprettycarefullytobesureIwearemorallycorrectinthepositionwetakeandifweareIthinkweoughttogivesomesupporttoGovernorJohnsononhisvoteforitMRMOSESTheGovernorhasoursupportThethingweareupagainstisthemathematicalpropositionundertherulesoftheCommissionwherebyfouraffirmativevoteswillcarryandunlesssomethingcanbedoneaboutWyomingtheyhavethefourvotesMRBARNARDJRAsamatteroffactthemostcentralplaceinthefourUpperBasinstatesandIthinksometimesweforgetthecompactisbetweenfourorreallyfivestatesandnotbetweenthebasininfourstateswhatImeanisthatColoradoisoneofthestatesandthemostcentrallyplacedfromthestandpointoftransportationandcommunicationandfromthestandpointofcommunicationwiththechiefengineersofficeoftheBureauwhichisinDenvereventhoughitisnotphysicallywithinthebasinandIthinksomeconsiderationshouldbegivenargumentsalongthislineAnytimeanyonefromWyomingwantstogotoSaltLakeunlesstheyhappentobeinsouthwesternWyomingtheyhavetocometoDenverandtakeanotherplanetogettoSaltLakeThesamethingistrueofSantaFeMRMOSESOnethingthatshouldbekeptinmindistefactthatanychangeisalsosubjecttochangeIfwearenotsuccessfulthistimeitmaydevelopthattheywillmakeanotherchangeIMRBARNARDJRWhatdoyouthinkDoyouthinkitwouldactuallyhelpthefunctioningoftheCommissionfortheofficetobeinSaltLakeMRSTAPLETONMrNelsonmayhaveaviewonthat IjIiZjMRNELSONIcantseethatitwouldhelpatallUtahistryingtocontrolthewholeshebangwithitsBonanzaAirlinebidandtheUpperColoradoRiverCommissionofficeoverthereTheyarejusttryingtorunthewholeshowMRMOSESThestrongestargumentthatwehaveisthatwefootmostofthebillatleastitseemsthatwaytomeandweoughttohavesomethingtosayaboutwhereitgoesMRBARNARDJRWeproducemostofthewaterasfarasthatgoesMRLWILLIAMSMovingittoDenverorSaltLakelookslikeabetterpositionwouldbetoleaveitinsidethebasinsometowninsidethebasinwhichwouldleaveDenverandSaltLakebothoutMRNELSONdonogoodtoleaveittheItisamistakethewayitItwouldwayitisnowisnowMRSTAPLETONWellIthinktheonlythingwecandoisasktheDirectorinhiscommunicationtoGovernorJohnsontosaythatwehavediscussedthisandweknowheisontopofitandanythinghecandowillbeappreciatedWecanleaveitatthatIsthatsatisfactoryIdontthinkwecandoanythingmoreaffirmativeMRNELSONUnlesstheGovernorhasgotsomeideaspoliticallyGOVMcNICHOLSWeareinterestedingettingtheprojectsthemoneyWheretheofficeisreallyseemstometobeasmallmatteractuallyItisnicetohaveitherebutwehaventdoneanybetterhavingithereinsofarasgettinganythingweareinterestedinandIthinktheyhavegotfourvotesEdhashisvotethisisprobablythewayitisgoingtobeThereisnouseantagonizingeverybodyaboutthemovingoftheofficeItisntgoingtogetusanythinganywaysowhyshouldweworryaboutthatIfwecangetitfineifnotIthinkweoughttoletitgoandgetaftertheprojectsand iZIlUMRBARNARDJFGOVMcNICHOLSMRBARNARDJRaftertheappropriationsnotgenerateanysteamonthatbecausetheygotanofficeoverthereThereisnothingthereanywaynowIthinkwearejustholleringuptherainbarrelanywayaboutthisIIthinkweoughttomakethissuggestionlikeIsayitisprobablyamatterofdiscussionIdontknowthatmyownmindisevenmadeuponitbutwhateveristruewiththeBureauregionalofficeIthinktheydosincerelytrytobeimpartialbuttheyaregoingtobestaffedmainlywithpeoplewhoarefromtheareainwhichtheofficeisOveraperiodofyearsthishappensanqwhenitdoeshappenthosepeoplearebetterinformedandmoresympathetictotheprojectswithintheirareasNowitisamatterofgettingtheprojectsbutgettingtheprojectsfromthestandpointofCongressisnottheonlyanswerbecauseuntiltheBureauofReclamationandtheDepartmentoftheInteriordoestheworkontheprojectstogetthemreadytogowedontgetthemoutofCongressSomebodyhadtogetoutofthatofficeoverinGrandJunctionandgettoSaltLakeanywayallthetimeImeanthatIdontseereallythatitmakesalotofdifferencemyselfMaybeIamwrongIcantseeanyuseoffussingaboutitwhentheyvegotthevotesanywayNowwehavestrongcommitmentsfromGovernorSimpsonGovernorMechemallthoseGovernorsonourprojectsonCurecantiandwhenitwasdonetheysupporteditrightdownthelineNowthisissomethingwehavetoredbagainwiththesenewGovernorsIthinkthesearethethingsweoughttobeworryingaboutandnotantagonizingthosepeopleastowherethisofficeisItwouldbeniceifwecouldhaveitbutwearentgoingtogetitwehaventgotthevotesandwemightaswellforgetitIThatsthequestionIhadinmindhavewemadeorshouldwemakeanyrealefforttogetthevotes GOVMcNICHOLSIMRPETERSONGOVMcNICHOLSMRCHRISTYGOVMcNICHOLSMRBARNARDJRIGOVMcNICHOLS128lWellwearegoingtohaveaWesternGovernorsconferencecominguptheendofthismonthagainthe23rdandthe26thwhereIwillseeallthosegovernorsandIplantotalkwiththemaboutthesethingsandseewhatkindofapproachweoughttotakeingettingthesamekindofunanimitywhichwehadamongtheupperbasingovernorsonourprojectsandIhopeweworkourwaybackintoitYoucouldnthaveaskedformuchbettercooperationinthelastyearoryearandahalfthanwehadfromthosegovernorsoneverythingwewantedtodoWewereprettywellagreedonwhatweweredoingandIhopewecandoevenbetterWellGovernorIforonewouldvoteinfavoroftradingtheofficeforSaltLakeforappropriationsforCurecantiIftheycouldmakeanappropriationthatwouldbeanicethingtotradebuttheydonthaveanymoneytoappropriatewehavetogettheCongresstodothatAndanywayMearenotinapositiontotradebecausewedonthavethevotesAlongtheselinesIremembermanymonthsagowhentheoppositiontotheresolutionontheColoradoRivergotboundupwiththisfightoveranofficeIdontthinktherewaseverafightovertheofficeIfwecangettheprojectsandthemoneyIdontcarewheretheofficeismyselfWewanttheprojectswewanttheircooperationThatstruebutIthinkitdoeshaveabearingwheretheofficeisontheobtainingoftheprojectsIdontthinkitmakeanickelsworthofdifferencemyselfwherethatofficeisandthatsmyownopinionIamnotsayingthatIdontwantithereIwouldliketohaveitherebutitissomethingthatisntworthwhilefightingaboutWehavegototherthingsthataremoreimportant 1282MRSPARKSMRBARNARDJRGOVMcNICHOLSMRNELSONMRSPARKSGOVMcNICHOLSMRNELSONMRSTAPLETONMRSPARKSGOVMcNICHOLSIthinkitmightbeagoodideatohaveMrGoslinappearbeforethisBoardandexplainhisthinkingbehindthisproposedchangeWouldthatbehelpfulThatwouldbeveryhelpfulIwouldthinkIWeareentitledtothatHedidntmaketheproposalDidhesayhedidntGeorgeClydemadeitlineditupandhehadofcoursesupportofthoseothertwogovernorstoitbutwhetherhecangetthissupportnowornotIdontknowMaybewehadbetterseeandmaybeyouhadbetterjustdropthisfornowandwewillknowalittlemoreinabout15daysWeinwesternColoradofeelthatUtahhasundueinfluenceovertheBureauofReclamationofficethererwouldputitconverselyIdontthinkhaveundueinfluenceIfIcansummarizeitIthinkwewilljustleaveitlayasitisuntilthenextmeetingIncidentallyGovernorwearetryingtoschedulethisforDecember9thatwhichtimewewouldliketoinvitetheCongressionaldelegationherepriortotheopeningofCongressnextyearWewouldliketomeetwithyouandourCongressionaldelegationInthatrespecttheGovernorhasinvitedustoUsehisconferenceroomandifwedogettheCongressmenherethatwouldbeaveryconvenientplaceIJustalongthelinesyouweretalkingaboutforinstancethissoundsystemandallmaybewecouldinstallthissoundsysteminthatpermanentofficetherewhereitisreallyalotmoreconvenientthangettingshovedaroundfromplacetoplaceWecould IMRSTAPLETONMRMOSESMRSTAPLETONMRNELSONIMRBARNARDJR1283schedulethesemeetingsforyouinthatconferenceroomandhavesomeconferencefacilitiessetupItisclosehereunlessyouwouldhappentoneedworkingpapersorsomethingoutofherebutIimagineyoucouldbringthosewhenyouhaveameetinganywayyouhadtobringthemuphereyoumightaswellbringthemovertherethenwewillalwayshaveaplacewhereyoucanmeetWewilltalkaboutthissystemIknowtherearetwoorthreeofthesearoundWhenIgotoothermeetingsofotherboardstheyhavethesesoundsystemsalloverthegovernmentWemadethatconferenceroomupjustsowewouldhaveaplaceanofficialplacetohavethesemeetingsclosetomyofficewhereyoucouldgetintouchwithusisyouwantusIcantalwaysbeintherebutIcanberightclosebytherewhichIthinkwouldbehelpfultoeverybodyifyoueverwanttotalktomeaboutanythingandifIwanttotalktoyouyoullbethereSoyoucanplanonusingthatwheneveryouwantitIfyouhavetheCongressionaldelegationcominginyoucanusemyofficeforitwhenyouhavethatmeetingThankyouGovernorWewilltakeadvantageoftheinvitationWealsoappreciatetheuseofthesoundfacilitiesWediscussedthisatlunchanddecidedwewouldleaveituptotheDirectorArethereanyadditionalmattersIhaveonemorequestionWewereallexcitedayearagoabouttheSanJuanandgettingitinshapeforthenextCongressWhatsourstatusontheSanJuanIthinkitwillbeaccomplishedTheengineeringcommitteehasntmadeitsfinalreportyetbuttheyhaveaccomplishedmostoftheworkandIthinkthatwewillhavesomeprettysolidstuffonthisStatespositionbythetimeCongressconvenes 1284MRGILDERSLEEVEGOVMcNICHOLSMRBARNARDJRGOVMcNICHOLSGilschairmanoftheengineeringcommitteeWehavethefirstdraftofourreportfinishedItisjustamatterofeditingitIWehadanunderstandingwiththeStateofNewMexicothatwewouldnotrecordwithCongressdisapprovallargelybecausewefelttheywerentgoingtogetitanywayinthefirstplaceandsecondlysothatwewouldgetachancetoworkoutsomedetailsandseehoweverybodywouldbeeffectedandtheyagreedtothatTheywouldnegotiatethephysicalfindingswithuswhenwegotthemsoIthinkitisimportanttoknowwhenwearegoingtogetthisinformationbecausewearegoingtohavetostartrenegotiatingtheseamendmentsAssoonaswegettheengineeringcommitteesreportwehavesomelegalmatterswehavetolookintowhichwehaventdonebecauseweneededtheengineeringinformationItwillnottakethelegalcommitteetoolongtocomeupwithsomekindofareportandthenwewillbeinapositiontotalkwiththeGovernorofNewMexicoWewerealsotryingtolaythegroundasyouwillrecallforsomereevaluationoftheRioGrandesituationwiththeGovernorofNewMexicoandtheGovernorofTexasandwearealsoworkingonthatsomethingtoseeifwecantrollupoursleevesandrenegotiatethecompactItwouldmeanthatwecouldsitdownanddiscussthematterthoroughlybetweentheAttorneyGeneralsandlaterontheGovernorstoseeifwecouldntworkoutsomethingthatwouldbemorebeneficialtoeverybodyonthatRioGrandeinadditiontothatSanJuanChamaandNavajoProjectsI MRSTAPLETONIMRBARNARDJRMRSTAPLETON1285WillthatreportbemadebyDecember9thIdontbelieveitwillbereadytopresenttotheBoardatthattimebecauseafterwegetthereportwehaveseveralthingswehavetodobeforeafinalreportcanbemadetotheBoardBythewaybeforeweadjournthereisonegentlemenwhoispresentherewhohasbeencooperatingwiththefullsupportoftheDenverWaterBoardintheColoradoRiverstudyonthefillingofGlenCanyonIdontknowwhetheryouhaveallmethimornothesagraduatelawyerandagraduateengineeremployedbytheDenverWaterBoardandtheWaterBoardhasmadealotofhistimeavailabletotheInvestigationCommissionDonHamburgwouldyoustandupWeonlyhavejustaminutetogoInlieuofareportfromtheBureauofReclamationthereisalettertoFelixdatedNovember6thwhichbringsusuptodatefromthepreviousreportatthelastmeetingCopiesofthisletterareinyourfoldersSeeAppendixAIsthereanythingfurthertocomebeforetheBoardDontforgettheMissouriBasinmeetingonthe9thandlOthofDecemberWeexpecttohaveourownmeetingoneitherthe9thor11thTherebeingnofurtherbusinesstocomebeforetheBoarduponmotionthemeetingwasunanimouslyadjournedat300PMI IIlZtlCopyUNITEDSTATESDEPARTMENTOFTHEINTERIORBUREAUOFRECLAMATIONRegionalOfficeRegion4SaltLakeCity10UtahNovember61958MrFelixLSparksDirectorColoradoWaterConservationBoard212StateOfficeBuildingDenverColoradoDearMrSparksWehavereceivedyourOctober281958noticeoftheColoradoWaterConservationBoardmeetingtobeheldNovember121958InasmuchasImetwiththeBoardrecentlySeptember17andgavearatherdetailedreportonreclamationactivitiesinwesternColoradoIpresumethatitwillnotbenecessaryforustoattendtheNovember12meetingThefollowinginformationhoweverismoreuptodatethanthatgivenattheSeptember17meetingandmaybeofinteresttotheBoardCurecantiUnitTheplanningstudiesontheCurecantiunitareproceedingonscheduleAllfoundationdrillingatBlueMesaandMorrowPointdamshasbeencompletedTheadditionaltopographyrequiredforBlueMesaisalsocompletedThesizesofthepowerplantsandhydrologiccriterianeededfordesignhavebeendeterminedReportsfromotherinterestedFederalagenciesareexpectedinDecemberThedesignsandestimatesbeingpreparedbytheAssistantCommissionerandChiefEngineerinDenverareexpectedtobecompletedinDecemberLaboratorytestingofearthandconcretematerialsiswelladvancedSmithForkProjectSincetheSeptember17meetingwehavefounditnecessarytogivefurtherconsiderationtodesignsandestimatesThisworkandfinalrevisionsintheAgriculturalEconomyAppendixhasmadeitimpossibletocompletethereportinOctoberCompletionofthereportnowisscheduledforDecember 1288FloridaProjectDrillingofthelowerLemonDamsitewasresumedinOctoberWeexpectthatthedrillingwillbecompletedbythemiddleofNovemberThusfaritappearsthatthelowersiteismuchmorefavorablethantheuppersiteSmallReclamationProjectsOnOctober28and29arepresentativeofthisofficemetwithMrIiichardMandevilleEngineerandMrJohnBBarnardAttorneyinGranbyandthevicinityofGreenMountainReservoirtoconferrelativetoaloanapplicationbeingconsideredbytheGreenMountainIrrigationCompanynowbeingorganizedTheprojectunderconsiderationwouldconsistofacanaltodivertBlueRiverwaterfromtheGreenMountainReservoirandconveyittolandsalongtheeastsideoftheriverbetweenGreenMountainDamandKremmlingWeunderstandthataNoticeofIntenttoapplyforaloanwillbesubmittedinthenearfutureIftheNoticeissubmitteditwillbethefirstfromColoradowithinRegion4oftheBureauofReclamationWearealwayshappytoinformtheBoardofreclamationactivitiesinwesternColoradoandhopethattheinformationgivenhereinwillbehelpfulVerytrulyyoursIslEOLARSONEOLarsonRegionalDirectorII