PLAYBOY INTERVIEW: VINCE MCMAHON a candid conversation with the boss boss of wrestling about life as a tough guy, battling ted turner andjanet reno and saving the nfl from pantywaists Get ready for X-rated football. After the Super Bowl (that showcasefor prima donnas and pantywaists) comes a whole new ball game—a game with more blood and guts, kicks in the nuts and sheer smashmouth spec­ tacle than the cold, corporate National Foot­ ball League could ever give you. That’s the hype, anyway. And whether you call it XFL PR or XFL BS, this new pro league is a bold play by XFL founder Vince McMahon, the hypemaster with balls as brassy as the wrestling shows that made him a billionaire. Will the XFL win America’s football fans over? NBC thought enough of its chances that the network invested $50 million in the league and will televise XFL games in prime time. The reason? McMahon, the giantkiller who t urned pro wrestling from an ob­ scure sideshow into a TV heavyweight more popular than college football or the NBA. He’s the starmaker who turned Steve Wil­ liams and Dwayne Johnson into Stone Cold Steve Austin and the Rock, two of the biggest names in trashtainment. McMahon, 55, is the guy who created modem pro wrestling by admitting that the spor t is fake. He let fans in on the joke, then proceeded to bowl them over with a sublimely ridiculous show, a crazed sitcom or soap complete with lewd jokes, backstage intrigue and operatic wars in the ring. Fake? Of course! Everybody knew it, and millions of World Wrestling Federation fans played along with the gag. Unlike the rubes they’re purported to be, WWF lovers are attuned to modem media: At one of the WWF’s weekly Raw Is War spectaculars, a McMahon fan held up a sign that read Monday n ig h t f o o t b a l l is fake. What’s real and what’s fake? McMahon knows the difference. And of all the things he is— WWF kingpin, actor-brawler playing the evil Mr. McMahon in his own shows, XFL creator, proud father, horny husband, Forbes 400 media mogul—he is foremost a fighter. His ring exploits may be a soap op­ era on steroids, but go up against him in a boardroom or a back alley and you’re in for a beating. McMahon grew up in Havelock, North Carolina, with an abusive stepfather and a mean streak wider than a country road. He learned to fight dirty. After years of street brawls and minor crimes, young Vince got shipped off to military school, where he was court-martialed. But somehow he stayed out of jail long enough to run headlong into a game as reckless and raw as he was, a game that was in his blood. On a trip to visit his real father—a man long divorced from Vince’s vivacious, fivetimes-married mother—the kid got a look at dad’s business: pro wrestling, a “sport” that featured snarling men in leotards who pre­ tended to beat the crap out of each other. It was the same sideshow his grandfather had promoted before Vince’s father took over, and the boy was hooked in a heartbeat. But his dad told him to find steadier work. "Get a nice government job,” said his father. On­ ly after years of waiting and pestering was Vince McMahon allowed to promote a few cards in the backwaters of his father’s wres­ tling circuit. The rest is a hell of a story line: Eager young huckster turns regional circuit into national spectacle, body-slams cable compet­ itors, gets famous, expands empire into ac­ tion figures and restaurants, makes first bil­ lion, rides 150 mpli motorcycle into sunset. Except that in this story, nothing is as simple as it seems. In fact, McMahon’s road to the top was full of potholes. There was bankruptcy, federal charges that he’d distrib­ uted steroids to wrestlers, a media war with Ted Turner. There was trouble in his mar­ riage to Linda McMahon, the school sweet­ heart who became his wife and chief execu­ tive of the WWF. There was the death of WWF star Owen Hart in a ring accident, and McMahon’s decision to let the show go on after H art’s body was whisked away. There was and is the persistent charge that “I get off on the number of orgasms a wom­ an has, when I ’m the reason she’s having them. To be responsible for a woman becom­ ing absolutely without inhibition—that’s about the coolest thing in the world. ” “The last time I rode a motorcycle I ran into a Volvo. I was on a Boss Hoss—having that much power is like having a 12-foot penis. I hit the Volvo and it launched me. It was just a question of how I was going to land. ” 1 I PHOTOGRAPHY BY DAVID ROSE “There will be controversy. I f there isn’t, we’ll create it. Not the lily-white, pasteur­ ized, homogenized pro football that the NFL wants to sell you. You ’re going to see passion, the passion players have for winning.” >« McMahon is a cultural bogeyman, a panderer who owes his wealth to bulked-up lugs M and their babes, cartoon pimps and their ho trains—the lowest of lowbrow TV. McMahon answers with a shrug: “That’s 4¡ what the people want. ” ^ He can afford to be a little smug. After trailing Turner’s World Championship Wres01 /ling in the ratings for almost 100 straight weeks, McMahon’s WWF smacked its rival down and now crushes WCW week after week. Chyna, the WWF women’s star, got raw in the November 2000 playboy and made that issue a newsstand sellout. The Rock drew roars at last summer’s Republi­ can Convention, then turned up at the MTV awards and got bigger props than Eminem. And now, with Stone Cold Steve Austin back from injury rehab to complete the all-star team and the XFL about to kick off its inau­ gural season, McMahon is the most power­ fu l figure in the field that he calls sports entertainment. Is the McMahon of the hour a hero or a villain—in wrestling talk, a face or a heel? What makes him tick people off? And just how good is he in bed? We sent sports talker Kevin Cook, who hosts a daily show, The Skybox, on eYada.com, to ask. Cook reports: “McMahon is as subtle as a concussion. He’s big—6'2", 230—and in scary shape for a man of 55. He ticked me off at first. I ar­ rived on time at WWF headquarters, a glass box in Stamford, Connecticut festooned with big black flags that make the building look like a pirate ship, and I waited for three hours while he finished up some business meetings. Pacing in his reception room, I watched that Monday’s Raw Is War on 12 screens flanking a backlit WWF logo on the wall. A portrait of the Rock glared down at a jumbo floral display in the middle of the room. The flowers were plastic. “At last I was ushered into his office: black-and-white wallpaper, stark red high­ lights, WWF magazines and posters neatly arrayed, a panoramic fourth-floor view of leafy Stamford with Long Island Sound in the distance. After a muscular handshake he said, ‘Let’s go. ’ “In the next three-plus hours he would laugh a lot, roll Ids eyes theatrically, whistle for effect, jump from his chair to act out wrestling moves. He would talk openly about his businesses, his background, his family, about love and Raw and feeling like you have a 12-foot penis, and he would careful­ ly couch a surprising revelation about sexu­ al abuse. “I ’m no WWF fan, but after hours of back-and-forth with McMahon as dusk and then darkness rolled over Stamford, I can tell you that I ’d want this guy on my side in a fight. “With the first XFL games coming in Feb­ ruary, we started with football talk. ” q At the press conference an­ nouncing the XFL, you said your league was for real men, not “pantywaists.” You questioned the manhood of guys like Joe 56 Montana, John Elway and Brett Favre. PLAYBOY: I did not. I said it’s not a league for pantywaists, that’s true. But I was really talking about how the NFL has changed football. The billionaire owners—or at least millionaire owners— have changed the rules to protect their prime investment, the quarterback. It’s ostensibly for the safety of the perform­ er, but that hasn’t got a damn thing to do with the game. Once you do that, it’s no longer football as we know it and love it. PLAYBOY: And the XFL will be? M C M A H O N : We’re not going to protect the investment like NFL owners have: one hand on the quarterback and the whistle blows. It’s not that way in college, it’s not that way in high school and it won’t be that way in our league. I played both offense and defense in my day, and I remember what you’re taught on defense: Knock the quarterback out of the game. PLAYBOY: Once there’s a famous XFL quarterback, you might be tempted to protect him, change the rules----M C M A H O N : No. It’s part of the game— knock the quarterback out. Now what? You go to the backup, and maybe you M CM AHON: D on’t get me wrong— I hate failin g. B ut I ’m not afraid to take chances and fa ll on my ass, because i f I live through it I ’ll be better off. run more-fundamental plays. T hat’s how it used to be in the NFL. It chang­ es things: When you draft your backs, you’ll want guys who are versatile, who can run and throw. The NFL would have Mr. and Mrs. America believe there are only a few players who can make it in the NFL, but there’s plenty of talent. There’s a Super Bowl MVP who proved my point. For years no NFL team would give Kurt Warner a chance, and he lan­ guished in the Arena Football League. Next thing you know he’s MVP of the Super Bowl. I’m not saying every XFL player is of that caliber, but they’ll sure as hell have the same heart. PLAYBOY: Do you agree with those who say the level of play in the XFL will be between Arena football and the NFL? M CM A H O N: I’d say between the very best college ball and the NFL. But we’ll have our breakouts, names you haven’t heard yet. You’ll get to know the XFL stars’ personalities—unlike in the NFL, which wants to keep everything secret except the NFL. They don’t promote individu­ ality. They won’t let you celebrate in the end zone, and they have uniform police. They’ll fine a 330-pound guy for letting his jersey hang out. They wouldn’t let Jim McMahon wear a headband when he played for the Bears. It’s downright un-American! The XFL will give you re­ ality. And it’s going to be easier to pro­ duce than World Wrestling Federation entertainment, where we start with a blank page and have to write characteri­ zations and verbiage. Now we can turn the camera on charismatic individuals and let them be themselves. One thing I’ll insist on is that they not be politically correct. I can’t stand politically correct. PLAYBOY: You’re the antidote to political­ ly correct. M CM A H O N: People lie through their teeth with that stuff. I hate liars. I hate halftruths. I told Rusty Tillman, head coach of the New York and New Jersey Hit­ men, “Rusty, the moment you’re not yourself, I guarantee that I will be in your face. Physically as well as figurative­ ly. Then we’ll see what kind of fun we have.” PLAYBOY: Hall of Famer Dick Butkus is the XFL director of competition. You’d get in his face, too? M CM A H O N: Oh my God, yes! And Butkus knows it. That will be damn good TV. PLAYBOY: What do the coaches think of your style? M C M A H O N : Rusty said, “Vince, when I coached for the Raiders I swore a lot. Then I was told we had to change our image. I couldn’t swear anymore. Specif­ ically, I couldn’t say ‘fuck.’” I told Rusty he wouldn’t have that problem in the XFL. It’s not just that the word refers to my favorite thing to do in life. It’s that we want communication that’s visceral. Our cameras and microphones are go­ ing to capture everything as we go inside what may be the greatest sporting event on television other than the Olympics: pro football. The NFL doesn’t want the real game exposed. They have a corpo­ rate image to protect. But we’ll give you the whole show, a reality show inside a sporting event. PLAYBOY: Should the NFL be worried? M CM A H O N : They have their audience. I think we’ll have their audience, too, and more. We’ll have a new audience that does not watch Monday Night Football. A younger demographic that advertisers want. Monday Night ratings are down, but sponsors can see that we’re going to grow. Why? Because we look at every­ thing as an entertainment vehicle. Noth­ ing is sacred. We’re not encumbered by the usual rules. That’s something that comes from my life, something that could have been a negative but turned out to be a plus. Most people grow up in a structured environment, but I didn’t. That gives you the ability to fall on your face, to get into trouble, and if you live through it, you don’t know limitations— other than physical ones, which I’m just learning about at 55 years old. PLAYBOY: We’ll come back to your bouncy childhood, but first let’s talk a little more about the XFL. You and NBC each own 50 percent of the league. So who has fi­ nal cut? Who makes the big decisions? M CM A H O N : That’s very clear. I’ve worked ► with NBC sports chief Dick Ebersol for ^ years. He’s one of my best friends. On the day we announced the XFL, Dick called and said, “What would you think 81 about Saturday night—in prime time?” Getting that credibility, being in that NBC pipeline, was worth giving up 50 percent ownership. But the creative in­ put is mine. Dick told me from the getgo: “This is your vision, and we don’t want NBC screwing it up.” You know, the networks aren’t doing that well. They need entrepreneurial spirit, and that’s what we bring. For bet­ ter or for worse, the XFL will revolution­ ize the way you watch sports. PLAYBOY: What about the credibility ques­ tion? When there’s a thrilling flea-flicker, won’t people say it was scripted? M CM A H O N : There will be controversy. If there isn’t, we’ll create it. But the real show is on the sidelines, in the stands, in the locker rooms, and we’re going to show it all. Not the lily-white, pasteur­ ized, homogenized pro football that the NFL wants to sell you. You’re going to see passion, the passion players have for winning and coaches have for motivat­ ing, and you'll see it live, because our cameras and mikes are right there. Someone drops a pass in the end zone? When he comes off the field, we’re there. PLAYBOY: He’s got to talk about it right away? M CM A H O N : Oh, yeah. PLAYBOY: Can you say “fuck” on NBC? M C M A H O N : You can say it, but it will be bleeped out. You’ll definitely see coach­ es, players and fans in the throes of pas­ sion, saying and doing things they would never otherwise think of. The linemen who love contact—they’re trying to rip somebody’s head off! It’s all part of our reality show, the one no one else would have the balls to do. PLAYBOY: Will you market-research the XFL the way you do the WWF? M C M A H O N : Yes. Not only with exit polls and focus groups but also with the em­ pirical sort of research we do all the time. With the WWF we’re in contact with our consumers more than 200 nights a year. They cheer, they boo. That’s how they tell us what they like, and we’re good lis­ teners. Our shows are totally interactive. The fans are part of the show, and some­ times they surprise me. PLAYBOY: When have they surprised you? M CM A H O N : We had a character, Val Venis, this alleged porn star we thought would be the consummate heel. But when Val’s music plays and he walks out, peo­ ple cheer: “Val! Yeah! All right!” That surprised me. Of course, that character has evolved—he’s joined a group called RTC, Right to Censor. PLAYBOY: He’s a good guy now. 58 M CM A H O N : No, he’s not. He has seen the > q light and joined Senator Lieberman’s clan. Which doesn’t make him a good guy, OK? PLAYBOY: You don’t like the way Joseph Lieberman invokes God in speeches and talks about cleaning up Hollywood and other bastions of so-called trashy or vio­ lent entertainment. Is he at the top of your enemies list? M C M A H O N : Anyone who is against free­ dom of expression would be up there. PLAYBOY: And he’s reaching the top. M C M A H O N : [ Whistles] Yes, he is. Lieber­ man’s scary. Not so much for my busi­ ness but for our country. I think it was his first speech after A1 Gore introduced him as the vice presidential candidate, and Lieberman called it a miracle and gave all thanks to God—I’m paraphras­ ing—and I thought. Wow, if this guy thinks he’s got a closer connection to God than I have, or than anybody else in America has, that’s not good. He’s not the Pope. He’s not a religious leader. So either (a) he actually thinks he’s closer to God, or (b) he’s a hypocritical politician using God to garner votes. Then I hear that they’re going to give Hollywood X number of days to respond—that’s scary. PLAYBOY: Do you feel you’re more in touch with the public than politicians or corporate leaders are? M CM AHON: Take the NFL. The suits over there don’t know their audience. In cor­ porate America, at the highest level, they don’t usually have a clue what their con­ sumers want. They drive Aston Martins, so they think everybody does. They be­ long to a country dub, they think every­ body does. It’s easy to fall into that trap, but I couldn’t do it if I wanted to. I loathe that. I am of the people. If I have a gift, it’s the gift of understanding com­ mon, ordinary people. PLAYBOY: How do you understand your fan base? M CM AHON: It’s real, broad-based Ameri­ cana. The teen audience appreciates us, yet we’re sophisticated enough that our female audience is growing by leaps and bounds. We’re growing across the board, not just among the male-dominated 12to 34-year-olds. We own that audience, but I don’t say, “Great, we own 12 to 34, so let’s focus on them.” If you start nar­ rowcasting, you’ll make mistakes. PLAYBOY: Should feminists loathe you? M C M A H O N : We’re equal-opportunity of­ fenders. Chyna’s one of our strongest characters, far above the vast majority of the men. Our female characters are unquestionably sensual, but they’re real bright, too, and they use their sensuality to get ahead. While the visceral, Pavlovian male----PLAYBOY: Gets played like a violin. M C M A H O N : Absolutely. Many females in the WWF are manipulative. But male or female, everybody’s trying to climb the ladder of success. It’s all a soap opera about how you achieve stardom, and then what you do after to remain a star. PLAYBOY: Will there ever be a female champion? M CM A H O N: Chyna’s our female champ. PLAYBOY: But how about a woman win­ ning the belt the Rock has? Could that happen? M CM A H O N: I don’t rule out anything. PLAYBOY: How do you write story lines? Do you brainstorm with writers, send e-mail back and forth? M CM AHON: Our writers talk with the tal­ ent, the talent submits ideas, writers sub­ mit ideas and generally it gets filtered through me. I’m blessed with a little cre­ ativity and vision. Eventually, it comes out on television in this hybrid form, the most unique form of television in history. Remember the old TV variety show? It’s still around. It’s the WWF. PLAYBOY: How do you choose your stars? Did you know that Dwayne Johnson would get so famous as the Rock that he’d knock ’em dead at the Republican Convention and the MTV Awards? M C M A H O N : You can tell if someone has charisma. He has it. So did his dad and his grandfather, who also worked for us. His grandfather was a Samoan chief, about 5'10" and 280 pounds, a rugged, tough son of a bitch, but a sweetheart. And his son, Rocky Johnson—the Rock before the Rock—was an extraordinary performer. A handsome black man. That gene pool is special, and it helps make the Rock a special human being. PLAYBOY: Did you help him with that eye­ brow thing he does? M CM A H O N : No. I think he started that in college. PLAYBOY: Is Stone Cold Steve Austin a better actor than Arnold Schwarzeneg­ ger or Sylvester Stallone? M CM A H O N: Sure, and so is the Rock. Be­ cause they can react, and react honestly. PLAYBOY: Michael Jordan told us he had trouble doing that in Space Jam. It’s not as easy as it looks. M C M A H O N : Well, Michael Jordan didn’t have the right coaching. Put someone with an acting coach? My God, Method acting! That won’t work. You have to un­ derstand athletes and how they operate, how they think, their attention span—or lack of it. Some people can’t give you an honest reaction. You have to challenge them: “Do you have any guts? Do you give a shit about anything? Fell me, and I’ll take that and use it.” If a guy only cares about his grandmother, I can use that. I’ll get him to think of his grand­ mother in a certain situation. PLAYBOY: Ominous for Grandma. Do you try to piss off your wrestlers? M C M A H O N : Sometimes. You have to re­ late to them viscerally. PLAYBOY: Let’s turn to a subject you rare­ ly talk about, when a wrestler died in the ring. M CM A H O N : My God, yeah. Owen Hart. PLAYBOY: Hart died in a ring accident, falling when the harness holding him above the ring broke. You had to decide: Go on with the show or cancel it? You went on. M C M A H O N : I didn’t know if it was the right decision. But knowing Owen as the performer he was, it’s my belief that he would have wanted the show to go on. PLAYBOY: How did you find out what had happened? M C M A H O N : I was backstage in my office when I heard. It happened when the arena was dark, so nobody saw the fall. I thought back to earlier that day: My son Shane and I were out by the ring, walk­ ing through a physical bit we had to do that night, and I was shocked and surprised by Owen. He was descending to the ring in typical Owen fashion, yell­ ing and raising hell. He was one of the biggest rippers, as we call them in the business, a practical joker, a prankster. One time he and Davey Boy Smith put goats in my office, and they made sure those goats were well fed beforehand. You can imagine how it stunk. But that’s how it is in the WWF, and how it was with Owen. So many jokes----PLAYBOY: If you could do it over, would you still hold the show that night? M CM A H O N : I just guessed that it was what Owen would want. PLAYBOY: So you’d do it again? M CM A H O N : I think so. PLAYBOY: Pro wrestling is a dangerous job, a little like being a stuntman. M C M A H O N : It’s a lot like being a stunt­ man, but it’s ramped up, because stuntpeople wear pads. We don’t. PLAYBOY: At the age of 55 you still per­ form in your shows. Do you have a high pain threshold? M C M A H O N : I’m blessed that way. I can handle pain. But the older I get, the lon­ ger it takes to recuperate. Sometimes we affect pain when there isn’t any. Some­ times we feel it and embellish it, if it’s part of the story line. Stone Cold kicked my ribs in one night, and we just w7ent ahead. I cracked my coccyx in a bad fall on a pay-per-view, and we continued. I’ve had several concussions. You get a white flash, and you need time off to get better. I don’t perform as much as I used to. I like the opposite side of the cam­ era—being the producer, the director, the cable puller. PLAYBOY: You don’t pull a lot of cable now that you’re a billionaire. M CM A H O N: Sometimes I do. If a camera­ man is scampering and the cable pull­ er’s not keeping up. I’ll pull the cable. There’s no job too menial. PLAYBOY: How about ring technique? You don’t want to break your neck out there. If Steve Austin jumps off the cage onto you, whose job is it to keep it safe: the leaper or the leapee? M C M A H O N : If you’re lying on the mat and Rikishi jumps from the top of the cage onto you, it’s Rikishi’s responsibil­ ity to come down the right way and not crush you. In that situation you’re do­ ing what’s called giving him your body. You’re saying, “I give you my life.” You give your life to somebody even on a simple body slam, because if he turns you facefirst into the mat and slams you, you’re either paralyzed or dead. PLAYBOY: That takes body control. Is it a natural talent? M CM AHON: No. You learn it. Look at the backyard wrestling you can see on the In­ ternet—some of the media try to glori­ fy that stuff, but it encourages kids to do things they shouldn’t. It takes years of training to take a back drop the right way. p l a y b o y : What’s the trick? M CM A H O N: You need to disperse the fall over as wide an area as you possibly can. Think about the physics of it: If you come off the top rope and land with all your weight on your elbow, that elbow is going to be shattered. But land on your back—as much back and leg as possi­ ble—and you can disperse the impact. Not that it won’t hurt. But you will get back up. p l a y b o y : Are you fearless? M C M A H O N : Like I said, I grew up in a very volatile environment. My view was that if I took a beating and lived, I won. I still have that view. It gives me a tre­ mendous advantage, because I’m not afraid of failure. Don’t get me wrong—I hate failing. But I’m not afraid to take chances and fall on my ass, because if PLAYBOY: Surely it must shape a person. I live through it I’ll be better off, and your mother. M C M A H O N : No doubt. I don’t think we M C M A H O N : Absolutely. First time I re­ I’ll win. member, I was six years old. The slight­ escape our experiences. Things you may PLAYBOY: You had a rough childhood in Havelock, North Carolina, where you est provocation would set him off. But I think you’ve pushed to the recesses of your mind, they’ll surface at the most in­ lived through it. >< grew up in a trailer. opportune time, when you least expect ^ M CM A H O N : [Laughs] A New Moon trailer, PLAYBOY: That’s an awful way to learn it. We can use those things, turn them in­ eight feet wide. Trailer park isn’t pov­ how a man behaves. erty. You don’t have much privacy, but M CM A H O N: I learned how not to be. One to positives—change for the better. But there are nice things about it. Every­ thing I loathe is a man who will strike a they do tend to resurface. thing is compact. And it beats some oth­ woman. There’s never an excuse for that. PLAYBOY: We can leave that topic, but one er places. Prior to that I lived in Manly, PLAYBOY: Eventually, you escaped from thing first. You have said that the sexual abuse in your childhood “wasn’t from North Carolina, in a house with no in­ your stepfather. door plumbing. That could get a little M CM A H O N : By the time 1 was 14 1 was on the male.” It’s well known that you’re my own. I was pretty much a man then. estranged from your mother. Have we disconcerting in the wintertime. Physically, at least. In other ways I’m still found the reason? PLAYBOY: So you’re the manly man from M CM A H O N: [Pauses, nods] Without saying becoming a man. Manly. Are those your first memories? that. I’d say that’s pretty close. PLAYBOY: Was the abuse all physical, or m c m a h o n : Yeah, and the summertime PLAYBOY: OK, let’s take a look at the wasn’t much better, sitting on the privy was there sexual abuse, too? teenage Vince. You with the heat and once said that you humidity and stench. “majored in badass.” Oh, man, the flies! N ew SOLO! M C M A H O N : I was to­ So when we moved tally unruly. Would to the trailer park, it not go to school. Did wasn’t so bad. things that were un­ PL A Y B O Y : You lived lawful, but I never with an older broth­ got caught. er, your mother and PLAYBOY: Did you ever occasional others, steal? right? M C M A H O N : Automo­ M C M A H O N : My p a r­ biles. But I always ents got divorced and brought them back. I I went with my mom, just borrowed them, Vickie. She was in the The all-new cordless SOLO® radar and laser MORE FEATURES really. T here were church choir. A real detector is a revolutionary new design - and now Powered by 2 M batteries (or an optional other thefts, too, and performer, a female you can test drive SOLO for 30 days at no risk. power cord), SOLO is the first detector that lets I ran a load of moon­ Elmer Gantry. Very you customize its operation. 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Leo Lupton. It’s un­ detector our fu ll-fea tu red Optional Power Cord $29” PASSPORT6800 is an PLAYBOY: Finally, the fortunate that he died Plus shipping and handling incredible police c a u g h t up before I could kill OH residents add 5.5% sales tax value at with you. him. I would have en­ 30-day Money Back Guarantee $179'n M C M A H O N : They had joyed that. Not that 5440 West Chester Road • West Chester OH 45069 a lot of circumstan­ he didn’t have some ► Department 200721 tial evidence. I was redeeming qualities. ©1999 Escort Inc. always in fights, too. He was an athlete, great at any sport, which 1 admired, and M CM A H O N: That’s not anything I would They’d pull up and there we were, me I remember watching The Jackie Gleason like to embellish. Just because it was and my group of guys, going at it with the Marines. Show with him. We used to laugh togeth­ weird. PLAYBOY: You fought the Marines? er at Jackie Gleason. PLAYBOY: Did it come from the same man? M CM A H O N: Havelock is right outside the PLAYBOY: Lupton was an electrician. He M C M A H O N : No. It wasn’t . . . it wasn’t Marine base at Cherry Point. There was hit you with his tools, didn’t he? A pipe from the male. a place called the Jet Drive-In. Real cre­ wrench? PLAYBOY: That’s so mysterious. It sounds M CM A H O N : Sure. like a difficult thing for a kid to deal ative—the Jet, because of all the military jets at the base. On Friday and Saturday with. PLAYBOY: He hit your brother, too? nights it was time to get it on with the M CM A H O N: You know, I’m not big on ex­ M CM A H O N : No. I was the only one of the kids who would speak up, and that’s cuses. When I hear people from the Marines. It was a challenge. Most of what provoked the attacks. You would projects, or anywhere else, blame their them were in great condition, but they think that after being on the receiving actions on the way they grew up, I think didn’t know how to fight. I’m not saying end of numerous attacks I would wise it’s a crock of shit. You can rise above it. they were easy pickings. They got their up, but I couldn’t. I refused to. I felt I This country gives you opportunity if testosterone going and they were all should say something, even though I you want to take it, so don’t blame your liquored up. Some of them were real knew what the result would be. environment. I look down on people tough. But me and my guys were street fighters. I mean, maybe you’ve been 60 PLAYBOY: You fought him when he hit who use their environment as a crutch. P< q The world’s best radar detector m 1 800 852-6258 through basic training and you know how to operate a bayonet. That’s differ­ ent from sticking your finger in some­ body’s eye or hitting a guy in the throat, which comes naturally to a street fighter. And they can’t believe you’re not “fight­ ing fair.” Suddenly they can’t breathe and/or see, and they realize: “Oh my God, am I in for an ass-kicking.” PLAYBOY: Ever come close to killing one of them? M CM A H O N: I would like to think not very close. That’s not what I wanted to do. You want to incapacitate the guy. Once you get someone down you don’t want him getting back up. You don’t want him moving, so you make sure he doesn’t. It’s not pretty, but it was challenging and fun. PLAYBOY: Finally, the authorities in Have­ lock gave you a choice----M C M A H O N : Right. It was reform school or military school. I went to Fishburne Military School in Waynesboro, Virginia, in the Blue Ridge Mountains. Military school is expensive. My mom was still my guardian and she couldn’t afford it. So my dad was notified and he paid. PLAYBOY: Your father was a wrestling pro­ moter. It was wrestling money that sent you to military school. M CM A H O N : That’s right. I would see him in the summertime and on the occasion­ al holiday. That he was able and willing to send me to that school made an im­ pression. It was a chance to start over. Maybe it doesn’t seem that I changed, since I was the first cadet in school histo­ ry to be court-martialed, but I at least started to change. No one really knew me at Fishburne. I had no badass repu­ tation to uphold. PLAYBOY: So why did they court-m ar­ tial you? M C M A H O N : For no particular infraction. Again, I was lucky and a little crafty—I wasn’t caught for some stuff that would have meant immediate dismissal, like stealing the commandant’s car. Colonel Zinneker had an old, green, beat-up Buick, and he always left the keys in it. He also had a dog he was nuts about. I love animals, but one day I couldn’t resist giving that dog a laxative. 1 put the laxative in some hamburger and the dog did his business all over the com­ mandant’s apartment, which thrilled me greatly. PLAYBOY: What finally got you in trouble? M CM A H O N : Insubordination. I had no re­ spect for the military because they were playing military. Sure, it’s an ROTC pro­ gram, but we weren’t in a war. We were a bunch of kids. The idea of this adult from Army ROTC ordering all these kids around—and getting off on it—ugh! What kind of human being is that? I was insubordinate, but 1 didn’t really have many scrapes at Fishburne. I was play­ ing sports—wrestling and football—and that helped me. PLAYBOY: What position in football? Offensive guard and defen­ sive tackle. But all I really knew how to do was fight. So it was, “Bring it on!” But when you’ve got bare knuckles and you’re hitting a guy with a helmet on, it’s no good. I was used to gouging eyes and going for the throat. A big kick in the nuts is always primo—you hear the guy go “Huhhh!” and you think. His ass is mine. But you can’t do that on the foot­ ball field. Football is all about technique, and I was a lousy football player. In one game I was personally penalized more yardage than our offense gained. PLAYBOY: Still, you beat the court-martial and even graduated. By then you had stolen cars and run moonshine. You’d had a drink. You’d had your first joint. You’d lost your virginity. M C M A H O N : [Pauses] That was at a very young age. I remember, probably in the first grade, being invited to a matinee film with my stepbrother and his girl­ friends, and I remember them playing with me. Playing with my penis, and gig­ gling. I thought that was pretty cool. That was my initiation into sex. At that age you don’t necessarily achieve an erection, but it was cool. At around the same time there was a girl my age who was, in essence, my cousin. Later in life she actually wound up marrying that asshole Leo Lupton, my stepfather! Boy, this sounds like Tobacco Road. Anyway, I remember the two of us being so curious about each other’s bodies but not know­ ing what the hell to do. We would go in­ to the woods and get naked together. It felt good. And for some reason I wanted to put crushed leaves into her. Don’t know why, but I remember that. I don’t remember the first time I had inter­ course, believe it or not. PLAYBOY: Your growing up was pretty accelerated. M CM A H O N: God, yes. PLAYBOY: In your early teens you spent a stint in Washington, D.C. with your father. M CM A H O N : When I was 12 or a little old­ er, living with my grandmother on my mom’s side, my father and his moth­ er came to visit. I must have behaved myself, because I got invited up to be with him. PLAYBOY: You must have been aching for him all that time. M C M A H O N : Didn’t know it, though. It’s funny how you don’t know what you’re missing if you never had it. Then when I met my dad, I fell in love with him. We got very, very close, but we both knew we could never go back. There’s a tendency to try to play catch-up, but you can’t. You missed those years. There would always be something missing between us, but there was no reason to discuss it. I was grateful for the chance to spend time with him. PLAYBOY: There was a colorful wrestler in his stable. Dr. Jerry Graham. M C M A H O N : Oh, boy. It’s 1959 and I’m M CM AHON: looking up at Jerry Graham and he’s lighting cigars with $100 bills. PLAYBOY: That’s a good story, but nobody would really do it. M C M A H O N : Graham would. He spent more money than anybody I know. He was a 300-pound guy with platinum blond hair and a thick, heavy beard. He wore red pants and a riverboat-gambler shirt. The shirt was either white or red. If it was red, it had white ruffles. If it was white, it had red ruffles. He wore red shoes and rode around Washington in a blood-red 1959 Cadillac, smoking a ci­ gar. He'd run red lights, blowing the horn, and people would scatter. If they didn’t get out of his way he’d cut a promo. PLAYBOY: Cut a promo? M CM A H O N: Yell. Go off on someone ver­ bally. Graham was good at that. My dad wouldn’t let me spend an enormous amount of time with him, but I’d sneak away when I could and go riding with the good doctor. Or we’d be at a party— my dad, Jerry and a couple of the other wrestlers. Jerry and his girlfriend would be arguing and pouring drinks over each other. It was sheer entertainment. I was learning that you can be drawn to people for their charisma, but that’s not all there is to them. Damn, Jerry, he loved to drink. There was a time when I thought Jerry Graham walked on water, but he could be a mean drunk, and that turned me off. PLAYBOY: Still, you were dying to follow your father into the wresding business. M CM A H O N: I loved it from the day I saw it. The characters! But my dad was prag­ matic. He remembered the bad years he’d had. He’d say, “Get a government job, so you can have a pension.” PLAYBOY: You wound up at East Carolina University, where you majored in busi­ ness. What did you learn? M C M A H O N : That I hated economics. Sat in the back row, didn’t like the subject. It’s about numbers, not people. Wasn’t wild about statistics, either. PLAYBOY: You attended East Carolina with Linda, a church choirgirl who fol­ lowed you there and became your wife. She finished college in three years, but it took you five years. Is she smarter than you are? M CM A H O N : Generally, yes. But it depends on how you define smart. I didn’t do well scholastically. Had a grade point av­ erage of 2.001.You needed a two-point average to graduate. PLAYBOY: It came down to your last class? M CM A H O N: I had to go back to a couple of professors to get them to change me from a B plus to an A, or I wouldn’t have made it. PLAYBOY: Why did they agree? Just be­ cause you didn’t steal their cars? M C M A H O N : I guess they didn’t expect a knock on the door from a student who wouldn’t take no for an answer. Some­ one who was saying he’s been here five >< years, and his wife’s been here three and q she’s graduating and she’s pregnant. Now they figure this kid has either made up a hell of a story or maybe it’s true. Either way, it didn’t hurt them to change < the grade. PLAYBOY: It was a great story line. M CM A H O N : I delivered it with lots of conviction, because it was true. Not that I couldn’t have delivered it with convic­ tion had it not been true. But the grades got changed and we both graduated. PLAYBOY: Soon you had a son, Shane, and a job selling adding machines. M C M A H O N : I’m not good with fucking machines. They have no personality. I went from there to a job selling cups and Sweetheart ice cream cones for the Maryland Cup Corp. in Owings Mills, right outside Baltimore. I would get up early and work a zillion hours, but it wasn’t for me. I mean, they want you to talk about the characteristics of the fuck­ ing cup. It’s a paper cup with a plastic coating, and it has a certain lip-type thing. They cook it at such and such a temperature. One day there I am, sell­ ing this guy on the cup, and he looks at me and says, “Son, you don’t really give a damn about that cup.” I said, “No, I don’t, and thank you very much.” That was it for that job. PLAYBOY: Next you got work crushing rocks. You’ve claimed you worked 90 hours a week, but that’s almost impossi­ ble, isn’t it? M C M A H O N : No, it’s not. Linda will tell you. I drove a huge dum p truck at Rockville Crushed Stone, and after a while I got promoted to the pug mill. Linda still teases me for it. A pug mill is where you combine different levels of rock with dirt, and I was made the pug mill operator. Now, that was big time. All this time I’d been pestering my dad to let me work with him: “Come on, Pop. You know I love this stuff.” He had a promoter in Bangor, Maine who had been caught stealing. Caught stealing above and beyond the norm, I should say. In those days all the promoters stole. But you can steal too much, and then you’re a thief. PLAYBOY: How much was too much? M CM A H O N : [Laughs] Over about 20 per­ cent and you’re a thief. So my dad tells me, “Look, the guy in Bangor, I just threw him the hell out. Go up there. You can’t ever say I didn’t give you an oppor­ tunity, but this is the first and last oppor­ tunity you’ll have in this company.” I went to Bangor, the northernmost out­ post of my dad’s territory. Now I’m hus­ tling, promoting a product I love. Peo­ ple cheer and boo and have a good time, and I leave with some money in my pocket. Goddamn, life is good! Started making my way south, promoting areas that hadn’t been promoted before. First thing you know, half my dad’s business is 64 in New England. rupt. You owned horses, had diversified PLAYBOY: Pro wrestling had always been regional, but before long you were in­ investments. What happened? vading other promoters’ turf. You were M CM A H O N: It was visions of sugarplums. the guy who was going to make wrestling It was, “Look how successful I am! I guess I really am somebody.” I got in­ a national business. volved with people who weren’t that M CM A H O N: Right. At tremendous risk. bright and let them tell me that I need­ PLAYBOY: There was a gentlemen’s agree­ ment: Promoters don’t violate each oth­ ed tax shelters. There was a construction er’s territory. In wrestling terminology, company, a horse farm, a cement plant, what you were doing was sort of a dou­ and it all went belly-up. I felt bad about the bankruptcy. I wanted to pay what 1 ble cross. You got death threats. owed, but there were other people in­ M C M A H O N : Many times. On the phone and in person. There’s a person who still volved, and finally the banks wrote it works for us, Jim Ross, who was at a all off. confab in Memphis back then. Ninety PLAYBOY: Later you had some trouble percent of the major promoters flew to with the IRS. Memphis for a big meeting. So one day M C M A H O N : I have withstood numerous Jim was sitting on the throne in the IRS investigations. They’ve never found men’s room when a few of the elder guys anything against me, because there’s come in, and they’re saying, “How are nothing to find. I’ve always remembered we going to stop this kid?” Meaning me. when my dad fronted money for some They’re plotting to do me in. Of course, people before a light-heavyweight fight. Jim doesn’t want them to know he’s A certain party out of New York couldn’t there, because he heard them. show his money, so my dad fronted the PLAYBOY: They were talking about kill­ money. Laundered it through his com­ pany, so the money could be legitimate. ing you? PLAYBOY: A fixed fight? M CM A H O N: [Nodding] Murder. They were going to take me out. So Jim, God bless M CM A H O N: Yes. After that came a grand him, in the middle of his defecation he jury investigation, which my dad with­ picks up his feet so they can’t see him. stood. And then, just when he thought H ere’s Jim with his feet up on the he was off the hook, knock, knock! It was throne, thinking, Please don’t let them the IRS. know I’m in here. Sure enough, they I can still see my dad during that time, walked out, and Jim had no trouble fin­ saying, “Goddamn it, if I could just get ishing his job after that. through this I’d pay every nickel I owe and then some. I just want to be able to PLAYBOY: Do you think they were serious sleep at night.” I remember the anguish about murder? on his face when he said it. So I adopt­ M CM A H O N: Some of it was probably bra­ vado from a pseudo tough-guy. Some of ed his philosophy, and I sleep at night. it was real. They were the last vestige of In terms of taxes, anyhow. I’m not wild the old school, and I wanted to change about sleep. the whole deal. I had to go national. PLAYBOY: How many hours a night do PLAYBOY: By 1984 you had achieved it. you sleep? You were planning the Wrestlemania, M CM A H O N: About five. It takes me forev­ the first of those huge national shows. er to go to sleep. I get frustrated and But it was also the time your father was sweat a lot and think, Damn it, you’ve dying. got to get up in two hours, you stupid M CM A H O N: Dying of cancer. I went to the son of a bitch. You’ve got to be at your hospital and I kissed him. I’ve always best tomorrow. Finally, I learned that if been demonstrative. If I don’t like you, your mind is going to race, you might as I’ll tell you. If I love you, male or female, well enjoy the ride. Watch the visions. I’ll hug you and say I love you. But my It’s a colorful show. I’m also learning dad was old Irish. The old Irish, for that as I get older, my dreams get less some reason I don’t understand, they violent. don’t show affection. T hat’s not how PLAYBOY: Are we talking video game-style I live my life. It’s certainly not the way violence? that my kids, Shane and Stephanie, were M CM A H O N : Not the sort you want to re­ brought up—I don’t know how many member. Now they’re changing, though. times a day I tell them I love them. But Now they’re more typical, R-rated. my dad, no. He never said it. Maybe he PLAYBOY: R for sex or violence? would say something complimentary M CM A H O N: Both. about me to somebody else, but not to PLAYBOY: About 18 months ago you were my face. That time in the hospital, I in a violent motorcycle crash. kissed him and said I loved him. He M CM A H O N : I’m a guy who gets more out didn’t like to be kissed, but I took advan­ of life than some people—more out of tage of him. Then I started to go. I one big breath of fresh air than most hadn’t quite gotten through the door people get from breathing in and out for when I heard him: “7 love you, Vinnie!" a lifetime. Bungee jumping in Germany He didn’t just say it, he yelled it. went OK, but the last time I rode a mo­ PLAYBOY: This came after you made your torcycle I ran into an idiot in a Volvo sta­ first fortune and promptly went bank­ tion wagon. It was July 3, 1999.1 was on a Boss Hoss, a motorcycle with a Chevy there, though, and it didn’t keep me but it’s not. I am a women’s rights advo­ cate. I’m big on equal pay, all that stuff. V8 engine. Enormous power. Not enor­ from working. mous speed—I’ve been on it at 150 miles PLAYBOY: You’ve alluded to feeling older It’s the right thing to do and it’s good business. an hour; it won't go much faster—but in recent years. How’s your libido? great acceleration. Zero to 60 in some­ M CM A H O N: I am a giver. Whether it’s per­ PLAYBOY: Linda’s not the only family thing like a second and a half. Having forming in the ring or sexually, that’s member who’s in the business. Your son, that much power between your legs, it’s how 1 get off. 1 give. I get off on the Shane, and daughter, Stephanie, work like having a 12-foot penis. But 1 had a number of orgasms a woman has, when on both sides of the camera. Few fans know that Stephanie, who is a major part little accident. I was coming down a sec­ I’m the reason she’s having them. of the on-air story line, still works behind ondary road, going about 45, when this PLAYBOY: What’s the record? idiot backed out of a blind driveway. I hit M CM A H O N: [Pauses] You know, you might the scenes, in ad sales. the Volvo and it launched me. It was just not be sure when you’re younger. She M C M A H O N : If your name is McMahon, a question of how I was going to land. could be like Meg Ryan in When Harry you have a day job and a night job. T hat’s when my training in the ring Met Sally. When you’re older, you can Stephanie’s now segueing out of sales in­ helped me. Up in the air I was conscious generally tell. Not just from sound, but to creative. She’s going to head up the creative division. of where the ground was, and I made physically. PLAYBOY: Her night job gets rowdy. Is it sure I didn’t land on my head. It’s like PLAYBOY: Muscular interaction. taking a back drop or some other wres­ M CM A H O N : There you go. You can’t fake annoying to hear fans yelling, “Slut!”and tling move: You might not hit just right, that. To answer your question . . . proba­ “Stephanie swallows!" at her? M C M A H O N : Not at all. You can’t think. bly six. Which is pretty damn good. but you can manage to land pretty flat. That’s my daughter they’re referring to. PLAYBOY: How long does that take? PLAYBOY: You dispersed the impact. It’s a character. As the father of the per­ M C M A H O N : Over the course of an hour. M CM A H O N : Right, and again, it’s like be­ ing in the ring—you don’t realize you’re See, I love women. A woman’s body is son who plays that character, I think hurt at first, because you’ve got your so complex and so beautiful, and it’s she’s getting a response. She must be adrenaline going. You don’t know you’re not just her body. It’s her mind. To be doing a hell of a job. You know what hurt until you try to bounce up, and you responsible for a woman becoming ab­ my worry is? That she might get hurt, can’t. The bike was uphill from me, gaso­ solutely without inhibition, surrender­ just as I worry about Shane or any of line pouring out on me. So I had my mo­ ing in that way—that’s about the coolest the performers. They all take big risks tivation: I was going to try not to burn to thing in the world. I’m not a guy who out there. death. Got up. Walked, kind of. I had just appreciates a woman’s physicality, PLAYBOY: Shane came back after getting broken my tailbone, which wasn’t the either. My wife is chief executive officer hurt in a fall at a SummerSlam show, car­ big problem, because bones heal pret­ of the company not because her last rying on the family tradition. But there’s ty fast. The big problem was that my name is McMahon, but because she’s the one story about a time he was scared to pelvis was separated. It felt like I’d giv­ best one for the job. You would think the death. He was four years old. en birth to a 20-pound baby. Got out of WWF is a bastion of male domination, M C M A H O N : [Grinning] Linda and I have been married for 34 years now, but we’re really different. She would always read to the kids at night. I’d make up stories for them, and my stories were full of action. Couldn’t help it. They’ve just had their bath and they smell so good, they’re tucked into their litde beds and they’re so sweet that you just want to eat them. I’d tell them a story, kiss them goodnight, and they would be absolutely wired. Linda would have to calm them down. So Shane was scared one night. He thought Dracula was in the closet. I said, “Oh yeah? Watch this.” I went in that closet and started growling and yelling, having a batde. I threw a litde furniture. Now Shane’s really scared to death, until finally his dad walks out of the closet. I said, “Son, you never have to worry about Dracula again. Dracula’s dead.” PLAYBOY: How are you as a husband? M CM A H O N : I tease Linda about the sacri­ fices I’ve made for my marriage, but she has made enormous sacrifices. When Linda and I got married, I promised her two things: that I’d always love her and that there would never be a boring mo­ ment. I’ve lived up to both promises. I have always been . . . loyal. PLAYBOY: And faithful? M C M A H O N : Not necessarily faithful. I probably lied to myself, thinking she knew who I was when we got married. The wild guy. But I never, ever threw anything in her face. I was discreet. And Linda never suffered from a lack of at­ tention, physical or emotional. But one day she asked me, point-blank, “Are you having an affair with so-and-so?” And I’ve never lied to her. “Yes.” It crushed her. Then she asked, “What about such and such?” “Yes.” It went on. More names. I said, “Yes, yes and yes.” PLAYBOY: Were your affairs at different times or concurrent? M C M A H O N : Different times. Some were concurrent, but I didn’t think she had to know that. She didn’t ask that question or I’d have had to say yes to that, too. It’s not something I’m proud of. I just didn’t realize the impact of messing with other people’s lives. Notwithstanding the im­ pact on my wife. I’m talking about the havoc you create in other lives, just from wanting to have a good time. There’s no such thing as an innocent fling. When a woman commits to a sexual encounter, it’s generally with a great deal of emo­ tion. With very few exceptions, it’s not just, “Let’s have sex! Boy, that was great. OK, see you.” Women don’t do that. So I guess, maybe . . . I hurt a lot of people. The sex was terrific, but from an emo­ tional standpoint, I regret it. PLAYBOY: Did you change? M C M A H O N : I learned about the ramifica­ tions of a sexual relationship, if you’re married. You’re touching a lot of lives, mosdy negatively. You think. It was just supposed to be sexual. We were sup­ posed to have a great time and be better off. But it’s always more complicated than that. It can interfere with your own life, too. Having an affair, running off here and there, can take a lot of energy. It takes a lot of effort, a lot of time. The last five or six years, I’ve found that I not only appreciate my wife more, but I can get a hell of a lot more done. PLAYBOY: You don’t cheat anymore? M CM A H O N : I have been not only loyal but faithful for about six years. Linda and I have a great marriage, and I don’t want to screw it up. I’m not saying I don’t look. I’m not saying I won’t fall off the wagon one day. I hope not, because of all the complications and because I would have to tell her if she asked me. But oth­ er than for the innate id, I don’t have a desire to go outside our relationship. And if I’m on the road for more than three days, you know I’m flying after­ ward to where Linda is. PLAYBOY: You’re always on the move. Were you hyperactive as a kid? M CM A H O N : Maybe. When Shane had al­ leged learning disabilities in high school, we put him on Ritalin. When I was in school there was no Ritalin. Attention deficit disorder hadn’t been discovered, so I was just a bad kid. PLAYBOY: A little Ritalin in 1960 might have changed the course of American entertainment. M C M A H O N : [Laughing] That’s one drug I’ve escaped. Maybe I had learning dis­ abilities, or maybe I was just starved for attention, striving to be liked. PLAYBOY: Your wresders have been get­ ting more attention lately. A couple of years ago Ted Turner, Time Warner and their World Championship Wrestling beat your WWF in the ratings for 88 weeks in a row. Now you kill them week after week. How fun is it to body-slam Turner like that? M CM A H O N: What happened was that the superstars we created got bought off by Ted Turner. When their WWF contracts came up, Ted opened his checkbook and paid them up to 10 times what we were paying. I had a fraternal, we’re-brothers relationship with our stars, guys like Hulk Hogan, and I never thought they would leave. They gave me every person­ al assurance that they wouldn’t. But ex­ orbitant money can change minds. It’s not easy compering with a billionaire and Time Warner. Still, we knew we could create new stars, and this time around we’d keep them, knowing that the guys Ted bought would get old quickly. Look­ ing back, yes, there was a brief time when the superstars Ted purchased almost in bulk and the promotional machine he owned—CNN, TBS, TNT, the NBA package, the NFL package, which he had for a while—all combined to put him >« ahead. But how far ahead? An average of q 20 percent, or at the most 25. It’s not the crushing situation you see now, when we ® have new stars and their superstars are >• old and jaded and don’t want to work. As ^ my dad would say, the wrinkles are out of their bellies. They’re no longer hungry. At Time Warner, they don’t understand the creative process. They have never been able to create stars, but Ted buys tilings. He’s always been like that. By the way, he has tried to buy the WWF on many occasions. PLAYBOY: What’s the prognosis for Tur­ ner’s WCW? M CM A H O N : I understand it’s for sale. PLAYBOY: You interested? M CM A H O N : Possibly. PLAYBOY: Now that you’re on top, has the WWF been getting a little less raunchy? M CM A H O N : On balance, we’ve never been raunchy. I’d say we are certainly more mainstream that we were several years ago, and we have pushed the envelope too far a few times. A couple years ago we did that with a character called Sexu­ al Chocolate. It was an S&M parody in which Sexual Chocolate was surprised to learn the person gratifying him was a male. Some of the audience got it as hu­ mor, but some felt like. How do I explain this to my young son or daughter? So maybe we pushed it too far. There was no reason to go there. But there will al­ ways be sexuality in the product. We’re a variety show, soap opera, rock concert, action-adventure with a little Comedy Central thrown in and with charismat­ ic world-class athletes performing their feats in the ring. There has never been anything quite like this, and you can’t copy it. It can’t be copied because there’s no formula. It’s living and breathing. PLAYBOY: Some of your critics say it’s dis­ gusting. Phil Mushnick of the New York Post calls you a pornographer. M CM A H O N : Look, we have a huge demo. Fifteen percent of our prime-time audi­ ence is 12 and under. Fifteen percent is 12 to 18. That’s 30 percent who are 18 and under, while 70 percent is your old­ er audience. Who do you write for? Re­ member, we’re part of the cable uni­ verse, where you’ve got The Sopranos, Sex and the City. Compared with a lot of what’s on cable, the WWF actually leans to the conservative side. Phil Mushnick? He’s so right-wing that everybody laughs at him. Even in the New York Post recent­ ly, there was only one pro-Mushnick let­ ter. All the rest were pro-WWF, saying, “Phil, grow up. Who the hell are you to view the WWF the way you do in this day and age?” Jerk. Phil writes his opinion, but he never calls us before he writes. He’s been invited up here. Won’t come, won’t meet me anywhere. Hello, Phil? Wake up! It’s the real world! PLAYBOY: Your shows feature talk about “puppies” and “tits.” M CM A H O N : We don’t say “tits.” We use G8 “puppies,” a cute term for breasts. It’s not meant to be derogatory. I’d say “tits” is vulgar, but “puppies” is cute terminology. PLAYBOY: But the fans yell about tits. And the signs fans hold up at your Monday night show, Raw Is War, aren’t just about puppies. M CM A H O N: If we see a sign that’s objec­ tionable or obscene, we'll take it away. We’re scanning the crowd, but some­ times there are 20,000 people there. You might see some signs that should not be there, especially on the live show Monday night. As much as I appreciate freedom of expression, we will ask the person not to display that sign. If he dis­ plays it anyway, we’ll say, “You know what? We’re going to bribe you now. Would you like to have this Stone Cold T-shirt for free? Give me that fucking sign.” Generally it works. PLAYBOY: Last year you were charged with hypocrisy for refusing to allow ads for the documentary Beyond the Mat to run during WWF broadcasts. How do you explain that? M C M A H O N : As a business decision. You want to know what happened? Ron How­ ard is one of my neighbors. Not that I know Ron well, but he called me and said, “Vince, I’d like you to meet this guy. He wants to do a documentary.” That’s how I heard about Barry Blaustein. I figured it would be a great posi­ tive. But when Linda and I went to a pri­ vate screening, we found out it’s so bad. It’s the underbelly of the wrestling busi­ ness in the early Eighties. You’ve got Jake the Snake off doing blow, and the movie winds up with one of our charac­ ters, Mick Foley—Mankind—bleeding everywhere. I think it was a Royal Rum­ ble event in Anaheim. Foley’s kids are in the audience, along with his wife, and the camera’s on them. Now, Mick’s wife has seen him in a lot worse condition, but here she is screaming so much that the kids—who shouldn’t have been there for this—are reacting to her hysterical screams. It turned me off so badly. I’m thinking, Barry, you and I have com­ pletely different visions of the business. In the early Eighties, and certainly before then, it was viewed as a six-pack and a blow job. But today’s performer is more sophisticated, educated. He’s on the Internet after his match, or playing video games. Or he wants to watch tape to study his performance. He does not go to the bar. So few of our performers even drink, much less do drugs and oth­ er things that were once run-of-the-mill. So to see Mick and his kids and his wife in that movie was a real downer. Even before that screening, I had told Barry and his backers, “You’re using our characters, our trademarks. But none of our performers got paid. You’re not pay­ ing the company. Let us buy in—I’ll pay half the production costs.” We were de­ nied. I told them, “Look, you know' we control all the advertising in our vehi­ cles.” We have for years, because we didn’t want Turner or anyone else capi­ talizing on our hard work. We can’t con­ trol Ford or Chevy, but we control the wrestling genre. So I’m trying to strongarm Barry and his studio. I tell them, “If you don’t let us in, you won’t have access to our vehicle.” I guess they didn’t be­ lieve me. Ron Howard said, “You know, Vince, sometimes out there in Holly­ wood you make bad deals, and you have to live with them.” But this wasn’t one I had to live with. And my decision wasn’t an editorial one, even though 1 didn’t like the movie. There’s plenty of stuff we do that I’m not in love with, but the au­ dience likes it. So this wasn’t censorship. It was financial. It was, “You guys didn’t let us in, even when I was willing to buy our way in, so fuck you. You raped me once, you don’t get the privilege of rap­ ing me twice. Fuck you. You can’t adver­ tise inside our vehicle.” PLAYBOY: Tell us about fear. You’re not afraid of Ted Turner or Dracula. What scares you? m c m a h o N : I was scared of the United States government when I pissed off the Justice Department and they trampled on my rights. They accused me of some­ thing I didn’t do. PLAYBOY: You were charged with conspir­ ing to distribute steroids. You original­ ly faced six charges but were ultimately cleared of all of them. M CM A H O N : And they were the ones who had been coming to me with a plea bar­ gain! It’s supposed to work the other way—the accused goes to the govern­ ment. But they came to me, and I said, “Fuck you.” Those were my exact words. I tried to call Attorney General Janet Reno but never got through, which is probably a good thing. PLAYBOY: Have you worked out any plans to hand over the reins of the WWF to Shane and Stephanie? M CM A H O N : Depends on what you mean by the reins. We’ll be doing films, mu­ sic—there’s a lot to keep me busy, like this little thing called the XFL. But if I bust tonight, Shane and Stephanie and Linda will make sure the business goes on. PLAYBOY: When you do step aside, will you write a death scene for your alter ego, the evil Mr. McMahon? M C M A H O N : A death scene? No, that wouldn’t be reality. Unless . . . you know what? I believe in the laws of nature. When it’s time for me to go, I would like to be devoured by the biggest, baddest carnivore that ever walked the face of the earth. And then I’d like that son of a bitch to get indigestion and vomit my remains back up. PLAYBOY: A romantic finish. M CM A H O N : Yep. PLAYBOY: And you know you’d get----M CM A H O N: Great ratings. □