Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 5 1 DAVID R. HOPKINS, P.E.D. 2 of lawful age, Witness herein, having been first 3 duly cautioned and sworn, as hereinafter 4 certified, was examined and said as follows: 5 6 CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. COPETAS: 7 Q. Good morning, Dr. Hopkins. 8 A. Good morning. 9 Q. My name is Ted Copetas. 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. As you may know, I'm representing We just met. 12 Ryan Fendley in the lawsuit that he is maintaining 13 against Wright State University. 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Would you please state your full name 16 for the record? 17 A. David R. Hopkins. 18 Q. And have you ever had your deposition 19 20 21 taken before in a civil proceeding? A. I believe so. It's been a while but I -- I think I have. 22 Q. Okay. 23 A. Uh-hum. 24 Q. I am just going to go over some basic 25 instructions. Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 6 1 A. Uh-hum. 2 Q. And, first of all, for the benefit of 3 the court reporter, if when I'm asking questions, 4 you could do your best to answer with affirmative 5 yeses or negative noes as opposed to uh-huhs or 6 huh-uhs and shrugging or anything like that 7 because it will be easier for her to get an 8 accurate transcript of the proceedings. 9 And if you don't understand any of my 10 questions, if any of them are unclear, feel free 11 to stop me and ask me to rephrase it or make it 12 more clear and I'll endeavor to do so. 13 don't ask me to do that, I'll assume that you've 14 understood my question; is that fair? If you 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Are you taking any medications or 17 anything like that that might interfere with your 18 ability to testify accurately and truthfully 19 today? 20 A. No. 21 Q. Is there any other reason why you 22 might not be able to testify accurately and 23 truthfully today? 24 A. No. 25 Q. I am going to do my best to when I Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Feneley. Ryan v. Wright State University David R. napkinsPage 7 ask you a question let you finish your answer. A. [ThahunL Yes. Q. And by the same token -- thank you. And by the same token, if you could let me finish asking my question before you begin an answer. A. Yes. Q. And that will make it easier for the court reporter to get a clear transcript. Please state your date of birth. A. August 14th, 1948. Q. And what is your current address? Q. And have you ever been convicted of a crime other than minor traffic? A. NO. Q. Have you ever been party to a litigation either as plaintiff or defendant? A. NO. Well, let me just i, I don't know being as representing the university, I'm sure I have been in that manner, as the president of the university; but personally, if you're asking me personally. Q. Personally. A. NO, 110. Mike Manley Reportini 300789474327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 8 1 Q. And have you ever -- you've said 2 you've testified in a deposition before but it's 3 been a while. 4 A. Yes. I recall when I was provost but 5 I don't recall the incident or what it was about 6 but I do remember being deposed but I don't 7 remember what it was about. 8 Q. 9 employment matter? 10 A. I don't. 11 Q. Okay. 12 Do you recall whether it was an And where are you currently employed? 13 A. Wright State University. 14 Q. How long have you been employed by 15 Wright State? 16 A. 14 years. 17 Q. And what is your current position? 18 A. President. 19 Q. How long have you been in that 20 position? 21 A. Ten years. 22 Q. And you report to the Wright State 23 University Board of Trustees; is that correct? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. What positions report directly in to Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 9 1 2 you? A. Presently the provosts, the vice 3 president for legal affairs, the associate vice 4 president for human resources, the chief real 5 estate officer. 6 7 Q. That is it at this point in time. Okay. And can you tell me about how many employees there are total at Wright State? 8 A. 2,800 roughly. 9 Q. And how many are unclassified versus 10 11 classified? A. We have about a thousand faculty. 12 have 1800 staff. 13 classified. I -- I would guess about 800 are I don't have the exact numbers. 14 Q. 800 of the staff -- 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. -- are classified? 17 A. Uh-hum. 18 Q. And the faculty are not? 19 A. No, uh-hum. 20 Q. Okay. 21 A. You said unclassified, right? 22 Q. Let's make sure we got it. 23 24 25 How many of the staff are unclassified employees? A. We I would expect without looking at them about a thousand. Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 10 1 Q. Okay. Ryan Fendley's most recent 2 position at Wright State was senior advisor to the 3 provosts, correct? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. To your knowledge was Mr. Fendley 6 performing well in that position? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. When did you first get to know Ryan? 9 A. Oh, it must have been about five or 10 six years ago. 11 Engineering/Computer Science. 12 13 Q. He was working in the College of Okay. And over the course of that time, what was your opinion of him as an employee? 14 A. Outstanding. 15 Q. And why do you say that? 16 A. I found Ryan to be quite 17 entrepreneurial in his thinking, quite innovative, 18 which is an important part of what we do. 19 yes, I found him to be quite successful. So, 20 Q. Was he hardworking? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Did you come to believe he always had 23 the best interests of the university at heart? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Did you ever express to Ryan any Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 11 1 dissatisfaction with his performance? 2 A. No. 3 Q. And as far as you know, has anyone 4 else expressed dissatisfaction with respect to 5 Ryan's performance? 6 A. Not that I'm aware of. 7 Q. Did you have a good relationship with 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. And did you like him personally? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Do you recall telling Pam Wheeler 8 Ryan? 13 that you believe Ryan was one of the most 14 important people at Wright State? 15 A. I'm sure I would have said that, yes. 16 Q. The position of senior advisor to the 17 provosts was a promotion for Ryan; is that fair to 18 say? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. And am I correct that before that, 21 Ryan played an important role in creating the 22 Wright State Research Institute? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Can you, for the record, explain what 25 the -- I'll just call it the WSRI does? Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 12 1 A. It's helpful if I give the context of 2 this. It think it will make more sense for 3 everybody. 4 Q. That would be great. 5 A. That when we work in research, I 6 differentiate the kind of research we do from 7 applied research and basic research. 8 school of medicine, lots of basic research. 9 Applied research is when we work with local We have a 10 companies. 11 Force research lab. 12 developed to do more of the applied use inspired 13 research, working external to the university, not 14 just the NIH/NSF grant. 15 use inspired arm of the university. 16 We work with external like the Air Q. The research institute was So it's really an applied And that allows it to do more 17 innovative things with private industry; is that 18 fair to say? 19 A. Yes. Uh-hum. 20 Q. And so there is no problem in concept 21 with Wright State partnering with private 22 businesses on research contracts? 23 A. That was our intent to create 24 opportunities to link the Air Force research lab, 25 private business industry, for the benefit of the Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 13 1 region, yes. 2 Q. And part of the research institute's, 3 WSRI's, mission is to help be a driver of the 4 local economy; is that fair to say? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. And that might include being involved 7 in a service contract with a private company to 8 help develop new technologies? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Ryan served as the director of Wright 11 State Research Institute; is that correct? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Did he do a good job as the director 14 of Wright State Research Institute? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Do you recall some of his 17 accomplishments? 18 A. Well, we -- I think what we were 19 trying to do was grow the portfolio of the 20 research institute with the Air Force research 21 lab, with local industry and I think under his 22 direction, it grew steadily each year. 23 Q. And is it true that he helped secure 24 the first ever multi-year contract with the Air 25 Force? Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 14 1 A. I don't know for sure which grant 2 that is. 3 instrumental in everything, from the startup to -- 4 yes, all the way along. 5 I'm sure he did though because he was Q. And if you recall, Ryan also was 6 responsible for creating the clinical trials 7 research -- research alliance with Premier Health? 8 9 A. I believe he certainly was a big part of that, yes, he partnered with I think Dr. Fyffe 10 and people in the school of medicine, Boonshoft 11 School of Medicine; but, yes, he was a part of 12 that, yes. 13 Q. 14 15 Why was that important for Wright State and the research institute? A. I think again it was a way for us to 16 engage with the local health industry, multiple 17 hospitals, primarily Premier, but to bring the 18 clinical trials, instead of people having to drive 19 to Cincinnati or Columbus, that we could do that 20 for our own community and, yes, important for our 21 community and quality of life. 22 23 Q. So Ryan's contributions in that regard were significant to Wright State? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. And Ryan helped found the Wright Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 15 1 State Applied Research Corporation; is that 2 correct? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. And for the sake of going forward 5 let's call that the ARC; is that fair? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. What does the ARC do? 8 A. The ARC was designed to be more of 9 the contract arm of the institute. It was also 10 designed to be a place where we could do contracts 11 that were with, for example, NASIC, The National 12 Air and Space Intelligence Center, which is 13 located at Wright-Patt. 14 was very -- I don't know what the word is, but the 15 kind that cannot be exposed, the research with the 16 intelligence agency, so it was an arm of the 17 university -- excuse me, of the institute to do 18 contracts and work with contracts that the 19 institute could not work with in a public way. 20 21 Q. The kind of research that And Ryan then became the first CEO of the ARC; is that right? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And that's a significant 24 25 responsibility, is it not? A. Yes. Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 16 1 2 Q. take on that responsibility, do you know? 3 4 Who made the decision to have him A. I think it was the recommendation of Dr. Narayanan. 5 THE REPORTER: 6 THE WITNESS: 7 THE REPORTER: 8 THE WITNESS: 9 I'm sorry, Dr. Who? Narayanan. Thank you. You want me to try to spell it? 10 THE REPORTER: 11 THE WITNESS: Sure. I'll give it a go. 12 Ryan can probably do it better than I can. 13 N-A-R-A-Y-A-N-A-N. 14 BY MR. COPETAS: 15 Q. Thank you. And you agreed that Ryan 16 would be the appropriate person to take on that 17 job? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Was Ryan effective as the CEO of the 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. And am I correct that Ryan was the 20 ARC? 23 director of the -- of WSRI and the CEO of the ARC 24 simultaneously, right? 25 A. Yes, I think there was a period of Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 17 1 time where that was the case, yes. 2 Q. Who replaced Ryan as CEO of the ARC? 3 A. Dennis Andersh. 4 Q. And who replaced Ryan as the director 5 of WSRI? 6 A. Jason Parker, I believe. 7 Q. You wouldn't suggest that Ryan was 8 overcompensated for any of the positions that he 9 held with Wright State, would you? 10 A. No. 11 Q. And you indicated that Ryan was 12 effective in the role that he held in the provost 13 office beginning in 2013; is that fair to say? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Can you share with me any of his 16 17 accomplishments there? A. Well, I think he worked closely with 18 the provosts on helping the different colleges and 19 schools overseeing the budgets, helping them 20 identify places where we could make investments. 21 He was doing multiple things in multiple ways but 22 I think supporting the basic mission of the 23 university. 24 25 Q. And he also helped create Wright State's new budget model? Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 18 1 A. We worked hard -- yes, it was called 2 the -- I'm trying to come back with the -- what it 3 was called because I know it was not RP -- RCM. 4 It was called -- Responsibility Centered 5 Management is the concept used nationwide but ours 6 was Mission Driven Allocation, MDA. And Ryan was 7 instrumental in helping design that. It has not 8 been implemented, but it was designed by Ryan 9 primarily, yes. 10 11 Q. Very important part of it. And he created the concept of Double Bowler Properties; is that right? 12 A. He was part of that conversation, 13 yes. I would not say he developed it 14 single-handedly but, yes, he was part of the team 15 that we had talked about that opportunity, yes. 16 Q. So he played a big role -- 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. -- in developing Double Bowler? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. And he also helped deliver the 21 university's largest individual donor; is that 22 fair? 23 24 25 A. I don't know if that -- I'm not sure what you're referring to. Q. Larry Dosser. Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 19 1 2 A. It is a donor, but it's not the largest. 3 4 That would not be the largest donor. Q. But Ryan was instrumental in helping deliver donors like that? 5 A. Yes. Uh-hum. 6 Q. At some point you became aware that 7 the federal government was looking into certain 8 contracts that the university had entered into; is 9 that right? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Do you recall when you first became 12 aware of that? 13 14 A. February 2015. February 22nd, I believe it was. 15 Q. And how did you become aware of that? 16 A. I was contacted by the Ohio Attorney 17 General's Office and was asked to, along with the 18 chair of the board of Wright State, to meet with 19 the Attorney General's Office representation with 20 the U.S. attorneys in downtown Dayton on that 21 date. 22 Q. And at some point after that, you had 23 a meeting with Ryan, Dr. Narayanan and Phani 24 Kidambi; is that right? 25 A. Yes. Yes. Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 20 1 2 Q. meeting? 3 4 Was it all with them in the same A. Yes, they were all three in the meeting. 5 Q. And you informed them that you had 6 become aware that the federal government was 7 investigating and they might take an image of 8 their computers? 9 10 A. I think that happened before I met with them. 11 12 No. Q. Okay. Well, what did you tell them in this meeting that you -- 13 A. Yes, that meeting was to clarify that 14 there was an investigation of -- of visas and that 15 I was asking them not to be involved with that at 16 any time, to stay clear of that in their work, to 17 focus on other duties. 18 would recommend you get a -- you each get a 19 lawyer. 20 believe, in that meeting. 21 22 And I do believe I said I I did make that recommendation, I Q. Okay. (Thereupon, Plaintiff's Exhibit 23 Number 1, Defendant Wright State's responses and 24 objections to plaintiff's first set of 25 interrogatories, was marked for purposes of Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 21 1 identification.) 2 BY MR. COPETAS: 3 Q. Dr. Hopkins, you have been handed 4 what has been marked Plaintiff's Exhibit 1 and it 5 is defendant's responses and objections, or Wright 6 State's responses and objections to plaintiff's 7 first set of interrogatories. 8 a moment to familiarize yourself with that 9 document. Would you just take 10 A. (Witness complies.) 11 Q. And let me ask, do you recognize this 12 document? Have you seen it before? 13 A. Yes. Uh-hum. 14 Q. And if you could, turn to your 15 verification page, which is about seven or eight 16 pages from the back and you'll find the 17 verification page that you signed. 18 A. (Indicating.) 19 Q. Okay. And in your verification you 20 state that you verified the truth of the answers 21 to interrogatories one through seven, ten and 12; 22 is that correct -- 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. -- as you look at the verification 25 page? Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 22 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. So if I could please direct your 3 attention to interrogatory number four. 4 is on page 3. 5 read interrogatory number four. And that And if you could take a moment to 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. So this interrogatory asks for each 8 policy, procedure, rule, regulation or law the 9 defendant believes plaintiff violated, provide the 10 following information, the date of the violation, 11 a brief -- and a brief description of the conduct 12 the defendant believes violated the policy, 13 procedure, rule, regulation or law. 14 on behalf of Wright State, you answered NA, 15 correct? And to this, 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. And am I right that this means not 18 19 applicable? A. I -- yes. I think what I'm -- I 20 think what it means is I did not know the exact -- 21 in other words, I don't know the policies and 22 procedures exactly. 23 criminal activity for the reasoning. 24 but it says NA. 25 Q. Okay. I was talking about a But that -- And just so we're clear, this Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 23 1 interrogatory four doesn't just refer to criminal 2 activity, right? 3 A. Yes. Uh-hum. 4 Q. So correct? 5 A. Correct. 6 Q. So am I correct that Wright State 7 responded and you on behalf of Wright State 8 responded in this way because Wright State never 9 determined that Ryan had violated any specific 10 policy; is that right? 11 A. I don't know what policy would be 12 involved in criminal activity, but, yes, if you 13 want to say a pol -- a specific policy, yes. 14 don't know if I'm answering what you're asking. 15 16 Q. I Let's make sure we have it clear. That's fair. 17 A. Yeah. 18 Q. So am I correct that Wright State 19 never determined that Ryan violated a specific 20 policy? 21 22 23 24 25 A. I'm not aware that we identified a specific policy, true. Q. And did Wright State ever determine that Ryan violated any rule or regulation? A. All that I'm aware of, that I'm Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 24 1 personally aware of, is that it was around the 2 criminal activity that was involved. 3 relates to a policy, I do not have that 4 information. 5 Q. How it And when you say around the criminal 6 activity -- and let me just clarify. 7 point where Wright State determined Ryan, we 8 think, broke the law? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Okay. 11 Was there a When did it reach that determination? 12 A. August of 2015. 13 Q. And what law does Wright State 14 believe Ryan violated? 15 16 17 18 19 A. The criminal activity was on visa Q. And what specifically did he do that fraud. you think amounted to visa fraud? A. I can only go by what was presented 20 to me by the U.S. attorneys in August of 2015 21 where they shared with me the information and 22 documents. 23 that Ryan had, along with the two other 24 individuals, been involved in criminal activity 25 involving visa fraud. A variety of documents had indicated And this was shared with me Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 25 1 by the U.S. attorneys on that -- in that month, 2 that date, whatever the date was, and that became 3 the basis for our action. 4 Q. Okay. Do you recall what it was they 5 shared with you that made you believe that Ryan 6 had engaged in some criminal activity? 7 A. They shared contracts. They shared 8 e-mails. They shared a variety of documents that 9 would show this transfer of money, a variety of 10 things. I'm not -- I was not allowed to take the 11 documents. 12 me in an oral fashion. 13 they -- that came from their investigation of our 14 internal -- of our documents. This is what they were presenting to These are documents that 15 Q. Okay. 16 A. They were Wright State documents. 17 Q. And you said there were contracts. 18 A. I believe they showed me contracts, Q. And the contracts they showed you 19 20 yes. 21 were the contracts between Wright State and Web 22 Yoga; is that right? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. And those contracts had been signed 25 by people other than Ryan on behalf of Wright Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 26 1 State; is that right? 2 A. I believe so. 3 Q. And you said there were e-mails? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. What do you recall from those 6 e-mails? 7 A. I don't recall any distinct. I 8 recall them going back and forth, but I don't 9 remember the -- I don't recall exactly what was in 10 the e-mails. It was a whole disposition of how 11 they were sharing their information with me about 12 their investigation. 13 Q. And so these were their allegations? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. And Wright State didn't do anything 16 to determine whether those allegations were true 17 or false? 18 19 MS. RABE: answer. You can You can answer. 20 THE WITNESS: 21 aware of. 22 BY MR. COPETAS: 23 Objection. Q. Okay. Not that I'm So as far as you know, Wright State 24 didn't do anything to determine whether or not the 25 allegations that the U.S. attorney was showing Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 27 1 you -- 2 A. Uh-hum. 3 Q. -- had any validity? 4 A. No. Except that our U.S. -- excuse 5 me, Ohio Attorney General was in -- was a part of 6 it. 7 from their involvement, that's the only way we 8 would be validating it. 9 We had a special counsel. Q. That's all I -- But, again, the university never 10 investigated the allegations that the U.S. 11 attorney was making? 12 A. 13 14 15 16 MS. RABE: Objection. BY MR. COPETAS: Q. And you said that you were shown documents showing the transfer of money. 17 18 No. MS. RABE: Objection. BY MR. COPETAS: 19 Q. Is that correct? 20 A. That -- yes. 21 Q. Earlier in your testimony? 22 A. I recall that as part of the package 23 24 25 You had said that? they shared with me, yes. Q. You're not suggesting, are you, that there was a transfer of money to Ryan personally? Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 28 1 A. No, no. 2 Q. And you don't believe that Ryan 3 engaged in any conduct for his own personal -- to 4 increase his own personal wealth, do you? 5 MS. RABE: 6 THE WITNESS: 7 No, I do not. BY MR. COPETAS: 8 9 Objection. Q. And you don't believe that he engaged in this conduct to, you know, improve his own 10 circumstances in some way, do you? 11 MS. RABE: 12 THE WITNESS: 13 know that. 14 BY MR. COPETAS: 15 Q. Okay. Objection. I don't know. I don't Did you ever see any 16 information that made you -- that led you to 17 believe that? 18 A. No. 19 Q. Did you ever see any information that 20 led you to believe anything other than that Ryan 21 was doing his best to act on the best interest of 22 Wright State? 23 24 25 MS. RABE: Objection. You can answer. THE WITNESS: Answer? Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 What I saw was Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 29 1 what appeared to be from U.S. attorney sharing 2 with me a -- an attempt to do something with the 3 company that circumvented the visa laws. 4 BY MR. COPETAS: 5 Q. Okay. 6 A. That's the impression and what I was Q. Now, when you mention the transfer of 7 8 9 shown. money, are you talking about the transfer of money 10 from Wright State to -- I'm sorry, from Web Yoga 11 to Wright State? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. And then Wright State paying certain 14 individuals, right? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. And what about that made you conclude 17 18 that Ryan was engaging in some criminal activity? A. As they shared this, they said that 19 what had been done was inappropriate and criminal 20 activity and that -- so I'm taking their comments 21 about that and they were trying to show me the 22 evidence that they had accumulated to show that. 23 That's what I was taking, their interpretation of 24 their investigation. 25 personal interpretation. Their interpretation, not my Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 30 1 Q. Okay. And so this was a contract 2 where Web Yoga was supposed to be conducting 3 research, right? 4 MS. RABE: 5 THE WITNESS: 6 yes. 7 BY MR. COPETAS: 8 9 Q. Objection. It's my understanding, And did you come to conclude or did Wright State come to conclude that the research 10 Web Yoga said it was doing was not actually going 11 on? 12 13 14 A. That is what I gathered from the U.S. attorney's comments, yes. Q. And if -- hypothetically, if the 15 research actually had been occurring, if Web Yoga 16 was conducting the research it said it was 17 conducting in its contract with Wright State, 18 there wouldn't have been a problem; is that right? 19 MS. RABE: 20 THE WITNESS: 21 don't know. 22 BY MR. COPETAS: 23 Q. Objection. I don't know that. I Did Wright State ever determine that 24 Ryan knew that Web Yoga wasn't doing the research 25 it said it was doing? Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 31 1 A. All that I had was what the U.S. 2 attorneys were sharing. No, I had no other 3 information to that point. 4 Q. Just so we're clear. 5 A. Uh-hum. 6 Q. So Wright State never concluded that 7 Ryan knew or had any reason to believe that Web 8 Yoga wasn't conducting the research it said it was 9 conducting? 10 MS. RABE: Objection. 11 THE WITNESS: I came to the 12 conclusion from talking to the U.S. attorneys that 13 he must have been aware of that from their 14 analysis of the information. 15 representation of that as that's the way they 16 interpreted what their investigation was coming to 17 and that he had been involved, therefore, in 18 criminal activity. 19 BY MR. COPETAS: 20 Q. I took their So you concluded that based on the 21 allegations that the U.S. attorney was making at 22 the time? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Did you retain the documents that 25 they showed you? Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 32 1 2 A. No. They would not allow me to do Q. Do you know if your counsel retained that. 3 4 the documents that the U.S. attorney was showing 5 you? 6 MS. RABE: 7 THE WITNESS: 8 Objection. I -- no, I don't know. BY MR. COPETAS: 9 Q. Do you know if anyone other than 10 counsel retained the documents that the U.S. 11 attorney was showing you? 12 A. I don't know. 13 Q. And, again, this was in August of 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Do you know -- do you know the 14 17 18 2015? precise date that this occurred? A. I don't. I'm sure I could find it if 19 I go back on my calendar and determine that, but I 20 did not do that at this point. 21 that, yes. 22 Q. Okay. I can determine And I'm sorry, Dr. Hopkins, I 23 don't want to belabor the point, but what is 24 Wright State saying that Ryan Fendley did wrong in 25 these dealings with Web Yoga? Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 33 1 MS. RABE: Objection. 2 THE WITNESS: What I was shared -- 3 what was shared with me was that there was -- from 4 U.S. attorneys' analysis of this, that there was 5 visa fraud going on in terms of how the visas were 6 done and how they would work with this private 7 company, and based on that, on that analysis, 8 sitting with the U.S. attorneys for a period of 9 time, and I took that analysis that there was 10 criminal activity by all three of the individuals 11 and I moved to remove them from their 12 administrative position based on the information, 13 the evidence provided to me by the U.S. attorneys. 14 BY MR. COPETAS: 15 16 Q. And the three individuals you're referring to are who? 17 A. Dr. Narayanan, Phani and Ryan. 18 Q. Phani Kidambi? 19 A. Phani Kidambi, yes. 20 Q. And how long did this meeting with 21 U.S. attorneys last? 22 A. About an hour. 23 Q. And to your knowledge Ryan has never 24 25 been indicted, right? A. No. They indicated at that meeting Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 34 1 that an indictment -- they anticipated an 2 indictment would be forthcoming. 3 Q. So the fact that Ryan was under a -- 4 or that the U.S. attorneys communicated to you 5 that Ryan was under a criminal investigation was 6 the reason why you determined Ryan needed to be 7 removed? 8 MS. RABE: Objection. 9 THE WITNESS: Not that just he was 10 under criminal investigation. 11 he had committed a criminal act. 12 BY MR. COPETAS: Okay. They had determined 13 Q. But, again, to this day he 14 remains unindicted? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. The general counsel's office at 17 Wright State is responsible for the university's 18 compliance with immigration laws, right? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. And at the time that the Web Yoga 21 contract was entered into and carried out, all 22 H1-B visas were processed through the general 23 counsel's office, right? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. And the general counsel's office is Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 35 1 responsible for making sure that Wright State 2 isn't issuing any visas for improper purposes; is 3 that fair to say? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And prior to the time that you became 6 aware of the federal investigation into Wright 7 State's visa program, did Wright State provide 8 anyone outside of the general counsel's office 9 with training about H1-B visas? 10 A. I don't know. I'm not aware if the 11 U.S. -- the state attorney had provided it. 12 not aware of any training. 13 Q. I'm You're not aware of any training that 14 executives such as Ryan would have received in 15 going through the H1-B visa process? 16 A. 17 I am not. (Thereupon, Plaintiff's Exhibit 18 Number 2, Wright State's responses and objections 19 to plaintiff's first request for production of 20 documents, was marked for purposes of 21 identification.) 22 BY MR. COPETAS: 23 24 25 Q. Dr. Hopkins, you've been handed what's been marked as Exhibit 2. A. Yes. Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 36 1 Q. And these are Wright State's 2 responses and objections to plaintiff's first 3 request for production of documents. 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Do you -- are you familiar with this 6 document? 7 A. Yes, I've seen this document. 8 Q. If I could direct your attention to 9 request number seven, which is on page 3 of the 10 document. This request asks Wright State to 11 produce all documents that describe or reflect 12 policies, procedures or rules in effect during the 13 relevant period that relate to obtaining H1-B 14 visas in connection with the employment of foreign 15 workers. 16 State referenced documents numbered 0001 through 17 0005? And you see in the response that Wright 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Do you know what documents are being 20 referred to there? 21 A. 22 No. (Thereupon, Plaintiff's Exhibit 23 Number 3, memo dated September 29, 2014 from Tracy 24 Silvert, was marked for purposes of 25 identification.) Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 37 1 BY MR. COPETAS: 2 Q. If you could take a moment to look at 3 what has been marked as Plaintiff's Exhibit 3, 4 which appears to be a memo dated September 29, 5 2014 from Tracy Silvert regarding non-immigrant, 6 immigrant worker assistance followed by some 7 forms. 8 A. (Witness complies.) 9 Q. And have you ever seen these 10 documents before? 11 A. No. 12 Q. It looks like this is a memo that 13 provides guidance to folks who are going to issue 14 H1-B visas in connection with research 15 contracts -- 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. -- is that fair to say? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. And the memo here is dated 20 September 29, 2014, right? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. So this of course would have been 23 after the university entered into the Web Yoga 24 contract, correct? 25 A. Yes. Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 38 1 Q. Do you know if prior to the issuance 2 of this memo whether the university had ever 3 issued any other prior guidance that might guide 4 employees who would find themselves involved with 5 the H1-B visa process? 6 A. I don't know. 7 Q. As far as you know, there are no such 8 documents, right? 9 MS. RABE: 10 Objection. THE WITNESS: I am not aware of 11 documents of that sort, no. 12 BY MR. COPETAS: 13 Q. 14 Exhibit 2. 15 number three. 16 to produce all documents that relate to or support 17 its decision to terminate plaintiff Ryan Fendley's 18 employment. 19 Hopkins reviewed documents that were presented to 20 him by assistant United States attorneys but was 21 not provided a copy of those documents and cannot 22 specifically identify what those documents were. 23 Okay. If you could go back to And direct your attention to request And this request asks Wright State And in response it says President You had indicated that there were the 24 Web Yoga contract, the university's contract with 25 Web Yoga? Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 39 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And that there was a series of 3 e-mails, right? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And there were transfers of money? 6 A. Those were the ones I recall, yes. 7 There probably were -- 8 Q. Any others? 9 A. Well, there was a packet of materials 10 that they laid in front of me that they talked 11 from. 12 of all the information, no; but there were others, 13 I'm sure. 14 I'm -- I don't remember details of every -- Q. Okay. Well, the contract itself 15 didn't lead you to believe that Ryan had done 16 anything improper, did it? 17 MS. RABE: 18 THE WITNESS: 19 contract, no. 20 BY MR. COPETAS: 21 Q. Objection. Not from just the Was there anything about the e-mails 22 that led you to believe Ryan had engaged in 23 unlawful conduct? 24 MS. RABE: Objection. 25 THE WITNESS: I could not Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 40 1 specifically say that to any e-mail, no. 2 BY MR. COPETAS: 3 Q. And was there anything about the 4 transfers of money that you referenced between Web 5 Yoga to Wright State and to these employees that 6 led you to conclude that Ryan had engaged in some 7 illegal conduct? 8 MS. RABE: 9 THE WITNESS: 10 Objection. By itself, no. BY MR. COPETAS: 11 Q. And those three things together, is 12 there anything that led you to believe -- to 13 conclude that there was illegal conduct here? 14 A. What I was taking -- they were 15 sharing documents and they were saying things to 16 the point that this is what we're looking at. 17 believe there is evidence here that demonstrates 18 that there was a criminal act in regard to visa 19 fraud. 20 We So I was taking -- this is within an 21 hour period. They were sharing documents with me 22 in a variety of ways and I was taking what they 23 said as this is the evidence we will use to go 24 forward with an indictment for criminal activity. 25 I'm taking that as a holistic review of what they Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 41 1 shared with me. 2 3 Q. Okay. And was it ever suggested why Ryan would engage in visa fraud? 4 A. No. 5 Q. Do you have any idea why he would do 6 such a thing? 7 8 A. Just that they were suggesting he did, but not reasoning to me exactly why. 9 10 No. Q. And did anyone at Wright State interview or ask Ryan about these facts? 11 MS. RABE: 12 THE WITNESS: 13 I'm aware of. 14 BY MR. COPETAS: Objection. I don't know. Not that 15 Q. You didn't? 16 A. No, I did not. 17 Q. And you're not aware of anybody else 18 who did? 19 A. No. Well, we were -- it was a 20 federal investigation we were told to stay as much 21 as possible completely away from. 22 was part of the reasoning there was no -- there 23 was no connection or comments with Ryan at 24 all. 25 So I think that (Thereupon, Plaintiff's Exhibit Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 42 1 Number 4, letter dated May 4th, 2015 from Dr. 2 Hopkins to Ryan Fendley, was marked for purposes 3 of identification.) 4 BY MR. COPETAS: 5 Q. Dr. Hopkins, you've been handed 6 what's been marked as Exhibit 4, which is a letter 7 dated May 4th, 2015 from you to Ryan Fendley, 8 correct? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Do you recognize this document? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And that's your signature on the 13 bottom of the document, correct? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Did you send this to Ryan or hand 16 deliver it? 17 A. I believe it was sent. 18 Q. You indicated that you had a meeting 19 at some point with Ryan, Dr. Narayanan and Phani 20 Kidambi -- 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. -- where you indicated you were going 23 24 25 to be placing them on leave; is that right? A. I believe that's true. recall exactly. I don't I know this letter was put Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 43 1 together. 2 there was a group meeting about the leave. 3 don't believe so. 4 individually. 5 look at my calendar. 6 7 Q. I can't remember -- I don't remember if I I may have met with them I don't recall that. I'd have to Do you recall that you did maybe meet individually with Ryan at least? 8 A. I don't recall. 9 Q. You recall telling Ryan that putting 10 him on leave was something that the board was 11 requiring him to do? 12 A. I -- 13 Q. Requiring you to do? 14 A. I consulted with the board and it was 15 the board's -- yes, the board was recommending 16 that was the appropriate thing to do at this time, 17 yes. 18 19 Q. Prior to sending this letter, had you met with the U.S. attorneys? 20 A. Only the first time in February. 21 Q. Okay. 22 A. All my conversations then were with 23 the special counsel conveying information. 24 Q. And who was the special counsel? 25 A. Mike Crites. Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 44 1 Q. So the first time you met with U.S. 2 attorneys back in February, who was in that 3 meeting? 4 A. I think there were a lot of people in 5 there. I remember I think Alex Sisler was in 6 there at that time. 7 recall, as far as who was there from the federal. 8 There were other investigators in the room from 9 multiple jurisdictions. He's the only name I would They introduced 10 themselves but I do not recall all the 11 individuals. 12 Q. And what was shared by the U.S. 13 attorneys with Wright State in that February 14 meeting? 15 A. Simply that they had -- were involved 16 in a criminal investigation of visa fraud and they 17 shared some preliminary information, which was 18 about Web Yoga and what they thought were criminal 19 violations, but it was very brief and very much 20 simply we're -- this investigation has been 21 underway for a while, we're bringing it to your 22 attention now. 23 action that would jeopardize their investigation. 24 And asked us to cooperate fully; I should add 25 that. And they asked us not to take any Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 45 1 Q. In your letter, Exhibit 4, you state, 2 as you're aware Wright State continues to 3 cooperate with an ongoing outside investigation. 4 What did you mean by the outside investigation? 5 A. The federal investigation. 6 Q. And then you go on to say, the 7 university has begun its own internal 8 investigation as well. 9 investigation? 10 A. What is the internal I believe at that point in time there 11 was an intent -- we used a forensic accounting 12 firm and that was part of it, but it was our 13 special counsel that was cooperating with the 14 federal and also, I'm assuming because this is, 15 again, what I was told at that time, that that -- 16 there was not an internal investigation other than 17 a forensic accounting of all the work done at the 18 Wright State Research Institute and the Applied 19 Research Corporation. 20 that I'm aware of. 21 Q. Who was the forensic accounting firm? 22 A. Plante Moran. 23 Q. And what were they looking into? 24 A. They were asked to -- again, this was 25 That's all that occurred a special counsel who brought them in to look at Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 46 1 all transactions -- 2 MS. RABE: And I'm going to interrupt 3 you for just a minute. 4 for conversations with you and special counsel -- To the extent this calls 5 THE WITNESS: 6 MS. RABE: Yes. -- or your in-house 7 counsel, I would instruct you not to answer. 8 the extent you know from other means, please go 9 ahead and answer. 10 BY MR. COPETAS: 11 12 To Q. And to be clear, I don't want you to tell me anything that you said to special counsel. 13 A. Okay. 14 Q. Or that special counsel said to you. 15 But what I'm asking though is your understanding 16 of what the forensic accounting firm was looking 17 into. 18 A. Was to look at all the dealings of 19 the research institute and the applied research 20 corporation. 21 Q. And did this involve looking into 22 only the Web Yoga contract or other contracts as 23 well? 24 A. No. It was much broader. 25 Q. And when you say it was much Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 47 1 broader -- 2 (Cell phone interruption.) 3 MR. COPETAS: 4 5 I apologize. BY MR. COPETAS: Q. When you say it was much broader, 6 what else was it looking into beyond the Web Yoga 7 contract? 8 9 A. I think the intent was simply to make sure, because this federal investigation was going 10 on, to make sure we had no other issues or no 11 other problems. 12 might be but just to make sure things were done 13 properly on other contracts and interactions. 14 15 Q. We had no insights to what they Did other issues or problems end up becoming revealed by this investigation? 16 A. The report has not been released. 17 Q. When you say it has not been 18 19 20 released, has it been presented to you? A. It's been presented in an oral fashion, some initial findings. 21 Q. And what were those findings? 22 A. Nothing criminal in any way, at least 23 we're being told it's simply some sloppy -- maybe 24 sloppy work in terms of how we documented things 25 is what's been found. But just some more Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 48 1 documentation that wasn't readily available that 2 should have been. 3 Q. And -- 4 A. That's my interpretation of what I've 5 6 7 8 9 heard orally from the report. Q. And based on what you've heard orally, who engaged in the sloppy work? A. Ryan was part of that. Multiple people were part of that. 10 Q. Such as? 11 A. Other people at the research 12 institute, our general counsel. 13 done in perhaps a fashion that were appropriate 14 but were just sloppy. 15 what we've heard to this point, but an official 16 report has not been released to us. 17 18 Q. Things were not That's the sense I get from Is there a date when you expect the report to be released? 19 A. I don't know. 20 Q. Who was it shared with? 21 A. Our board of trustees. 22 Q. Anyone else? 23 A. That's it, uh-hum, the board. 24 Q. And when you say sloppy work by the 25 general counsel, are you referencing a lack of any Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 49 1 procedures with respect to H1-B visas? 2 MS. RABE: Objection. 3 THE WITNESS: No, I think it was 4 more -- I don't remember exactly what it was but 5 it was just making sure there was proper oversight 6 of different -- a variety of activities that go on 7 in the institute, a variety of activities that go 8 on in the ARC. 9 BY MR. COPETAS: 10 Q. H1-B visas are part of that, yes. So there was a lack of oversight 11 that -- by the general counsel's office over the 12 H1-B visa program? 13 A. I would not say that was what was 14 conveyed by the oral report. 15 that there could have been better oversight. 16 Q. Was there any oversight at all? 17 MS. RABE: 18 THE WITNESS: 19 It's just saying Objection. Yes. BY MR. COPETAS: 20 Q. What was that? 21 A. Well, there was a review and there 22 was a signature, I believe, by the general 23 counsel's office on all of the visas. 24 25 Q. Bear with me one second. (Thereupon, Plaintiff's Exhibit Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 50 1 Number 5, letter from Dr. Hopkins to Ryan Fendley 2 dated August 12th, 2015, was marked for purposes 3 of identification.) 4 BY MR. COPETAS: 5 6 Q. Dr. Hopkins, you've been handed what has been marked as Exhibit 5 to your deposition. 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Which is a letter from you to Ryan 9 Fendley dated August 12th, 2015, correct? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Do you recognize this document? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. And is that your signature on the 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. In the second sentence of the letter, 14 bottom? 17 you write -- I'm sorry, the first sentence of the 18 letter you reference that he was placed on leave 19 as a result of an ongoing outside investigation 20 and by that you mean, am I correct, the 21 investigation by the Assistant U.S. Attorney's 22 Office? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. And forgive me if I've asked this 25 already, but to your knowledge as part of that Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 51 1 investigation or the internal investigation 2 conducted by Mr. Crites, as far as you know, no 3 one spoke to Ryan? 4 MS. RABE: 5 THE WITNESS: 6 7 Objection. As far as I know, yes. BY MR. COPETAS: Q. So the university never gave Ryan an 8 opportunity to discuss what his role in the Web 9 Yoga contract might have been? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. And when you say in the second 12 sentence, I have determined that it is in the 13 university's best interests to end our employment 14 relationship with you, as of the date of this 15 letter, you understood that the U.S. Attorney's 16 Office was making allegations against Ryan, right? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. But Wright State hadn't concluded 19 that Ryan had done anything wrong -- 20 A. No. 21 Q. -- is that fair to say? 22 MS. RABE: 23 THE WITNESS: 24 25 Objection. Yes. BY MR. COPETAS: Q. That's fair to say? Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 52 1 2 3 4 A. looked at, yes. Q. And Wright State had not made any conclusion -- 5 6 From Wright State from what we had MS. RABE: BY MR. COPETAS: 7 Q. 8 regulation, right? 9 12 -- that Ryan violated any rule or MS. RABE: 10 11 Objection. Objection. THE WITNESS: Yes. BY MR. COPETAS: Q. And there is no internal Wright State 13 policy that you could point to that Ryan violated 14 in connection with Web Yoga or that Wright State 15 determined that Ryan violated in connection with 16 Web Yoga; is that right? 17 A. My decision was based on my 18 determination working with the U.S. attorney that 19 he was involved in criminal activity related to 20 visa fraud and that was the basis of my decision 21 to do this with Ryan, terminate Ryan, and to 22 terminate the other two from their administrative 23 positions. 24 Q. 25 Right. And Dr. Narayanan and Phani Kidambi are both still working for the university Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 53 1 as faculty, right? 2 A. They were relieved of their 3 administrative duties and they have a faculty 4 fallback position that they go back to; and 5 because of the union contract that we have, they 6 remain in the faculty until there is a -- there is 7 in the contract triggers of where we can move to 8 termination. 9 Q. Have you done that? 10 A. We have not. 11 The triggers have not been reached. 12 Q. What are the triggers? 13 A. I don't know exactly, but my -- my 14 review of that in talking with my team is that an 15 indictment. 16 Q. Okay. So did -- so your meeting with 17 the U.S. Attorney's Office in August that after 18 which you terminated Ryan's employment, also the 19 U.S. attorney had presented to you evidence that 20 led you to believe that Dr. Narayanan and Phani 21 Kidambi were engaged in criminal activity? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And for you to terminate their 24 faculty positions, you would need just cause to do 25 so; is that right? Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 54 1 MS. RABE: Objection. 2 THE WITNESS: There -- my 3 understanding from our contract with the union, 4 there is a procedure. 5 three of them at that point in time as I did 6 Mr. Fendley, but because of the faculty contract, 7 I was not able to do that at that point in time. 8 BY MR. COPETAS: 9 Q. I would have terminated all So Wright State believed that 10 whatever the U.S. attorney had told -- whatever 11 the U.S. attorney had told you was not sufficient 12 to relieve Dr. Narayanan or Phani Kidambi of their 13 faculty roles? 14 A. I believe it was sufficient; however, 15 there was a procedure that needed to be followed 16 and there were within the contract, I was told by 17 our counsels, our special counsel, people who 18 reviewed the contract that -- 19 MS. RABE: And again, I'm going to 20 advise you not to talk about what counsel told 21 you. 22 23 24 25 THE WITNESS: Okay. BY MR. COPETAS: Q. Wright State never documented that Ryan broke any law or regulation, correct? Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 55 1 2 3 A. documented. Q. I don't know what you mean by That we -Well, is there any document where 4 Wright State has stated it believes Ryan Fendley 5 engaged in unlawful conduct in any way? 6 A. Not that I'm aware of. I do know 7 that legal counsel has had conversation. 8 all I'm aware of. 9 Q. 10 That's And Wright State never documented that Ryan violated any policy, correct? 11 A. Not that I'm aware of. 12 Q. And you never told Ryan that Wright 13 State had terminated his employment for just 14 cause; is that fair to say? 15 MS. RABE: Objection. 16 THE WITNESS: I wrote -- this letter 17 was prepared for me by the attorney general, I 18 think it was Sloan Spalding, and that was the 19 intent to convey that it was for cause for 20 involvement in criminal activity; and, thus, I 21 signed the letter that was given to me that would 22 convey that. 23 BY MR. COPETAS: 24 25 Q. So you're saying this is the only letter that you issued to Ryan Fendley to convey Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 56 1 the reasons for his termination; is that right? 2 3 A. This is all that was given to Ryan, Q. And where in this letter does it yes. 4 5 indicate that he's being terminated -- I 6 understand it says that -- it says that you've 7 determined that it's in the university's best 8 interests to end its employment relationship with 9 Ryan Fendley, correct? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. And then you go on to state that he 12 is being terminated and -- 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. -- you talk about his personal items, 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. And then you talk about his benefits. 15 right? 18 Tell me, Dr. Hopkins, where in the letter you 19 mention just cause. 20 A. I do not use the term just cause. 21 It's my -- it was my understanding at the time 22 that the attorney general's legal counsel, Sloan 23 Spalding, was in communication with you about the 24 cause and I was told that this letter was 25 appropriate based on that conversation. Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 That's Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 57 1 2 all I know. Q. Well, I can sit here and represent to 3 you that I have never had any such conversation 4 where it was conveyed to me that Ryan Fendley was 5 terminated for just cause. 6 what have been -- may have been -- you know, what 7 your understanding may have been about what 8 attorneys may have communicated with other 9 attorneys -- So other than 10 A. Uh-hum. 11 Q. -- is there anywhere here or anywhere 12 else where the university communicated to Ryan 13 that he was being terminated for just cause? 14 A. No. 15 Q. And the word cause isn't even used in 16 this letter, Exhibit 5, is it? 17 A. No. 18 Q. Prior to today, do you recall the 19 last time you saw Ryan in person? 20 A. I saw Ryan at Dr. Narayanan's 21 father's funeral. 22 that was the last time I saw Ryan, yes. I don't remember the date but 23 Q. You recall that was approximately 24 September of 2015? 25 A. I think so. Uh-hum. Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Yes. Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 58 1 2 3 Q. You recall apologizing to Ryan for how things had worked out? A. I said, Ryan, I'm sorry -- I said to 4 Ryan as I shook his hand, I'm sorry this worked 5 out the way it did. 6 Q. 7 8 9 Do you recall also stating that you wished you could find a way to bring Ryan back? A. My hope, I may have said -- I don't recall saying exactly that, but I would have loved 10 to have had Ryan back if this would all go away, 11 if there had been -- nothing had ever happened. 12 Ryan was a wonderful employee, yes. 13 14 Q. And as far as you know, Ryan may never be indicted, correct? 15 A. I don't know. 16 Q. And if Ryan never gets indicted, 17 would that lead you to conclude that, well, maybe 18 he didn't engage in any criminal activity? 19 MS. RABE: 20 THE WITNESS: 21 indicted, yes. 22 that was the intent. 23 BY MR. COPETAS: 24 25 Q. Objection. Yes. If he's not But it was very clear to me that And if he's not indicted, then in your mind, terminating him would have been a Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 59 1 mistake? 2 3 MS. RABE: Objection. BY MR. COPETAS: 4 Q. Is that fair? 5 A. Yes. 6 7 MR. COPETAS: Why don't we take a short break. 8 MS. RABE: Sure. 9 (Thereupon, a recess was had.) 10 MR. COPETAS: Back on the record. 11 (Thereupon, Plaintiff's Exhibit 12 Number 6, Wright Way Policy 8210, was marked for 13 purposes of identification.) 14 BY MR. COPETAS: 15 Q. Dr. Hopkins, you've been handed what 16 has been marked as Plaintiff's Exhibit 6, which is 17 Wright Way Policy 8210, which was formally 4004, 18 on the conditions of employment for unclassified 19 staff, correct? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Do you recognize this document? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And am I correct that this expresses 24 the terms and conditions of employment for 25 unclassified staff? Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 60 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. So this document would state the 3 terms and conditions for Ryan's employment at 4 Wright State; is that fair? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. And this is where Wright State has 7 agreed what it will do when someone is discharged 8 without just cause versus what Wright State will 9 do if someone is discharged with just cause; is 10 that right? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And to your knowledge does Wright 13 State apply this policy consistently among its 14 unclassified staff? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. And so when someone is -- when Wright 17 State is discharging someone without just cause, 18 it's bound to provide the notice that's provided 19 for in this document; is that right? 20 A. 21 22 Yes. MR. COPETAS: I don't have anything further. 23 MS. RABE: 24 (Thereupon, the deposition was 25 We'll read. concluded at 11:22 o'clock a.m.) Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 61 1 I, DAVID R. HOPKINS, P.E.D., do 2 hereby certify that the foregoing is a true and 3 accurate transcription of my testimony. 4 5 6 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 7 8 Dated _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Job: 161025MMW2 Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 62 1 STATE OF OHIO 2 COUNTY OF MONTGOMERY ) 3 ) SS: CERTIFICATE I, Monica M. Silverwood, a Notary 4 Public within and for the State of Ohio, duly 5 commissioned and qualified, 6 DO HEREBY CERTIFY that the 7 above-named DAVID R. HOPKINS, P.E.D., was by me 8 first duly sworn to testify the truth, the whole 9 truth and nothing but the truth. 10 Said testimony was reduced to 11 writing by me stenographically in the presence 12 of the witness and thereafter reduced to 13 typewriting. 14 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a 15 relative or Attorney of either party, in any 16 manner interested in the event of this action, 17 nor am I, or the court reporting firm with which 18 I am affiliated, under a contract as defined in 19 Civil Rule 28(D). 20 21 22 23 24 25 Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327 Fendley, Ryan v. Wright State University David R. Hopkins, P.E.D. Page 63 1 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set 2 my hand and seal of office at Dayton, Ohio, on 3 this 8th day of November, 2016. 4 5 6 _______________________________ MONICA M. SILVERWOOD, RPR, CET NOTARY PUBLIC, STATE OF OHIO My commission expires 9-2-2019 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Mike Mobley Reporting 800-894-4327