FORM IL 24: 07002 1.3 2 0 a: ,n n. 10_, ll ?4 13 .14L 15' Ele-F '18 19 20? 22V. [z?jjf IN THE CIRQUIT COURT OF THE TWENTIETH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT ST. CLAIR ILLINOIs E. KEMEER, EE AL.. Plaintiffs, Refendant. REPGRT 0F August 2, 1985 Before the HONORABLE RICHARD P. GOLDEMEERSH, Circuit JM 5 Mr. Rex Carr and Mr. Jereme Seigfr?id, Etherneys at Law, an behalf of the PIAintiffS; and I Mr. Kenneth Heineman, Mr. John R. Musgrave and~Mra Joseph Massif on behalf cf the Defendant, Kansanta Campany. Kathlegn Watson Brun?mann Official court Regatta: F: . - . UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT Fl D. . EASTERN DISTRICT.OF MISSOURI- EASTERN DIVISION FEB 25 1994 . Ema-2M0. OE CASES 0 IT IS HEREBY ORDERED that the following Cases, current- ly assigned to the undersigned, to the Honorable Charles A, Shaw: SELLERS v. ST. LOUIS POLICE DEPARTMENT 7 SCHWARTZ v. AMERICAN RIVER TRANSPORTATION I I PNUEMO ADDISON v. DELO (COESOiidatea3Nithi4:91CV1152, 4:91Cv1938 v; MONTAGUE . BARNES HOSPITAL v. SANUS PASSPORT . KAYSER v. CASPARI .BUNYARD v. RONES SALAMON v. 4i93cv293 HOLEROOK v. APEX R.E. T. GEROWIN v; FORD MOTOR COMPANY BRELAND v. CONTINENTAL CASUALTY COMPANY WILSON v. CORPORATION LUEBBERS v; CORPORATION v. LOUIS OFFSET DELEVAN INDUSTRIES rurm u. ?a BAYONNE. N.J. owoz iogPlaintiff?s Ex. No. Marked for I.D. Admitted inta? l7 -18 15 - 20.? 21_ '?33Lf INDEX or-wzwnasgss T47?a11ed 6n behalf Of.the plaintiffs: Clarification Examination" I (By-Mt. 2 PARK 1 . . IC#088'3xaminat1an Under.sectioh.2-1102: (By Mr; Glazifieation.Examinati?n INDEXVOFVEXHIBITS 'Ibe?endant?s Ex; Na. ?atked to: . Admittea?int?ij5??' Eviaenea _Evidence '.15421543 . 51 . 51 3.1543mA' a 31 52 51544,. 64.~ 65 3&1545? 64 as 7i154$ - 65 66 .1547 - 69 531549 - - . 137 . ,148 (BY MK. MHSQEEVS) 19-10 0 0 93.30 0 i .147.? I, ?ronM IL Zia A . 5? PENGAD to.. anq'nnz. mooREMEMBEREB AND CERTIFIED, that heretofore, on to?wit, August 2, 1985, matter as hereinbefore set ferth Tame an fer hearing before the Honorable Exchazd P..- Galaenhersh.VCirTuit Judge in ande Twenti?th JudiTial?j was ha?_a? having pieviously been Talle? As a witneTs-under Section 241102. havi?g ?zeTiausiy?be?n'?worn, .conti?ued TiarificAtibn exami?ati?h as f6119w8? CLARIFICATIBE EXAMINATION (Continued) THE CUURT: Okay,Vgentlemenv Mr. we broke Y?sterday a?tetnasn 'wa wexet?lking ahTut this meeting at EPA Ega?quart?is 1h Kansas'City, KAnaas on Januagy 26, 1979;' De Yen teTall?that;l 51x? A . Tea; 9_ Ana subsequent t0 the meeting, sir, were uh ere same minutes prepared of the meeting? A . YesV? . @3 And thT?.Trepared?_ ranrdilLI'z?Aa . . N41 _o7odz . . 71d}3f75'- AAQIIAHAM ?ifjgj15I- that and i?entify 1t E6: 66, 616656. . . This 16 the EPA 6666:: w1tA a cave: letter 6f 1'4??31f1311 th6 m1nutas that you talked ah?ut a m6m666 6966 at the mee?i?9?.- :1 a And did yOu receive a copy 6f them? ?1 i?W3to Ins1de M6nsant6 Distributien, and w1th tA6 Attachment i that w6r6 A part 6? Aha EPA repett. .Afgl?va {63y Regian 1 EPA. 1A1.QEJ A17A11-31ght1.And were they Sgnt. out to the Andeid you reviaw Aham?? 'v,yesq I I I -Q_And did y6u approve them1 65 1 (Defendant Monsanto Exxhibit 931 marked 1 by the court repetter 1 LAQA 31:; 16A me _Efbeen marked as Defendant's ExA1b1t 931, and ask yen to examin6},f" All right,I By the EPA report, 6:6 you referring jIj_1 238.I%r IL A BAYONNE. N.J. 077001 _,2r :2 1' . .23- 'has'aanuary'25. 1979 at the top7 _0 'Ana the secand'page of Exhibit-931L1?jwh3t; Sir? 1A .- .Are.you apeAkiag the I sir. To the Begand page of the exhibit "9h, I?m sorry. That 13 my @099: i?tter to-the- file regarding the minutes cf th1s meeting. And the first page is what, 31:? I beg you: pardon? The figst page of the ?xhibit is whAt; sit? The Internal wonsanta Distribution." That you; me, madethis report? 35? That'S-cerrect. New if I could direct the first page. en page of the exhibit. ?hich' is your mama; dated January 31, ?79. and the s?g?nd pAIagzaph- of.that.mem0 MR. Excuse me, eaunsel. Do y?u have a copy? MR. HEIHEMAN: ,Oh, certainly. I'm Barty. As a matte: Honey; if at. can: has me objection, gage he has-xea? the exhibit, I would ask the caur??s paxmi?sion 1? PENGAD BAYONNE. NJ. 01.001 have it a?mitted as a Def?ndant?s Exhibi? and-paSS?d ?95 the jury so that they eeul? fellow_aiongwh?n the 9199999." is ?gstiinng about it. MR. CARR: I have no abjecticns, you: 3999:. THE COURT: F1ne9 Then it; will be admitted at this time by.agreement. MR. I think paitionS'of it are already_ih'_ evidence as Plaintiff's exhibit, if not?the entire documentg your Honer. MR. HEINEMAN: I can't reach you, J?dgea THE couam; Thank you. 3okay. Mg. Helhem?n. MR. I was-just giving the.jury a rehance to laek it oVer a minute, Year Honer9 TEE COUBE: Why don' you proceed nan. MR. All Eight9? Thank you. (By Mr. Heineman) ?aw9Mr9-Metealf, 999?999999- page of the exhibit which contains Yout.ememorandum to th?- file, are there some additional comments that y?u ma?a ?there. 81:? A Yes. sir9' And why did you add those cnmm?nts? I didn't feel that.they were reflected in the minutes9 and I thaught it wou1d_be infarmatign 9999_99;' penple 99919 like :9 have. 10 .ll 12 l3 14' ,15'22 ~223f a y?ur?fe911ng th?t the report was A?enhenee~1n that paragrAph, air. where 1: states; ?They A16 - not receive it 13 fact, didn't learn of the 200 part3 per' ov?r?two_weeks after cleanup was started.'D1d I read that A yes; - .-WhAt is it that you Axe s?e?ifically r?f?ztingAto-' lthere?l A 1 A The deeisicn that EPA aa1d.they wculd Aa?e ?6 'remmva all material'that cantained owe: 260 part? per m1111?nA.' menus. . right. And Other ?han those comments, wasait A cemylete? A Q- I Alliright, 31:. Ngw; the very first pArAngph-cf' tAe added commeAts that you made relates to some conversationiv er ayparently comments by Reland M1ller: 13 that right, 51:2 .7 .A Yesy? Ae was the V133 pres1dent was he the vice ptesident an'd geAeral manager at WEStern Environmental Servi?es; the~cleaA~Ap contractor? A A Yes; I?d like yen to ta refer you ta the 1a8t million cutoff on excavation until the day before the meet1ng;' accurately,,sir?1 woum renew rm.? 070cm 10 12 7'v'23f 24 that learn cf Eth-untiljthe day 59f?F9 tha{"tl January 26 meeting? A that's what they Sai? ?t this meetipg. 9' All ri?ht. New, had elean~up been gaing on dut there as reported at this meeting grin: to Wegtenn learned of this 200 parts pet million ieve1?" A 'Yes. Abcut twe weeks. All rights New lat m? direct y?ur attention he the next-page @i the exhibit, sit, which has the date January 26, 1979 typed at the tap. There's a purpos?vstatea there; is that right? I I _Yes?? Whese puzyase was that? I believe that's the gunposa; y, The-yurpose of the meeting?? YES. And this meeting was called by the :3 (3 1h Itgm 2 it says.'Presentahion of Ahalyti?al Data, EPA, Westexn Environmental Services.and Discussion." 'Was that item cf the agenda performed at the meeting?? A Yes,' Qkaya Whatwas messaged by the 1mm and- 'Wastieim And was there de 1 understana-it to be catzectf . mum n. 24? PENGAD co.. anvoqufNJ. claw. 110 3: .1115"23." _Env1xonmenta1 Services? 1.3 Analytical data on total pha no1s, on samples that T: How, the fourth item on the agenda,'on that same page states "Approach For Continuation of Monitor1n9a* does it net. 31:? Yes. QC Was it discussed in the me?ting'aa to wheth?rfar' net manitoting had already been going on at the clean-WP site Yes. - who had been dcing it? A Manitoging, EPA had been manitoring.the efforts 'of Western Environmental Serviees. Q. . And what sort of monitoring well,. under that 'Air,'and $011 at the Spill Site.? Had.theze been air an?a?k $011 monitoring going On by EPA prior to that time? A I believe\so. I'm net a hundre? percent an: a .about air menitoringg'but certainly soil monitoring. New,.i? you g9 tenthe next.page cf the axhibit, rthena?s an EPA Press Statement, is there not? A 9 And.I*d 1ike he direet yeut attention to ?he.?hi? ,had been ?take in a specific series, I think of six ser1es,,1??9' I think that had been taken sometime befate the meeting. 17 1 garagza?h.1t aays ?Approach for Continuation of ?cnitoging; 1?2 a . '23 24,? completad. ,-Inm not :eally'gure hey.mueh EPA had done. 'gaing to be doing it 5? whe was-going'to be doing manie A engineer, was-the on-aeene coordinator; is that right? aa?ia?aataxily; and that,whan it was ?inishedg.it paragraph of ihat Press Statement, an? the secand sentenc?, wh?re it says. ?rhewait will Be maniter?d-an a 24-h6ur ba?is and analyz?d daily.? Do you s?e that, sit? A xes. . I uAll right. Now what's-thgt had thatb?gng?in? on accogdi?g'tov?hat was said intheme?ting by the I I?m?not.sune. It says that there will -Ithey will begin-bu the 29th and will continue uhtil clea?-up is A11_zight. A There had.been.air.?pnitbrihg {hat Kansanto did. All Eight; But aaeogding to this, was the toting an a*24-houx basis and analyzing it dailY: aegoraing to your understanding ai the.meeting? A 0 All right. _And Harry Gilmer, the EPA chemical I That?a carreet. Now, what ?ees that'mean, sir? ?Well; it?s my understanding that he is.the one who was given the reggansibility a: saying the wark was IL 243 renew co.. immune. n.1, 01002 ,22: 23 poaSibla. Said Gilmer.? Carrect? would be ?lean; 'Th? state of missouzi_had deferred ta 'oh this, and apparently Western Enviranmental Services and- the railroad had also. Now;_the next paragraph on that same page stat?s 1 will aontihue to analyZQ samples of the soil as it is remov?d by Western.Envitanme?tal Servieeag' To your air, as it was :epbxted in the meeting,waakthe EPA doing _gr that? A 295. Q. Was that the split sampling?thing talked about, yesteiday?_ A 'Yes. And the last paragraph 0f this EPA Ptess StatemenE'I says, "The eeogetatiVeiaffert by the railtbad, its gleanug ean?tacter and tha'gav?xnmeht'ageneies will help_mitigate- this unfextunat? anvixcnmental accia?nt'aa quickly as. A Yes. 1 was any dise?ssion of.that S?rt,ha? in the meeting-itself ?n-JanuarY'26th? .A Yes. . A11'21ght. New, if I can direct your attention .t9 the max: page OE this these.hinutes, syecifically ta'paragxapb the next 939%, wh?r? it 10 15? 19' 20C 21,.i ?22' 5 ?23 cleanup oyezations including analytical monitoring are the, responsibility of the spillerzF corzect, 21;? A yes; sir. What was'discussed at the meeting on the 26th ~with respect to that sobjeot, if anything? A I am.not sure I understand your question,? I'mo not sure I understand your question. I?m sorry.1 .4 All right. Let me rephrase it; -Was there any - dichssion at tho meeting with respect to who the spiller -.was, an& who assuming reagonsibility for the clean~u?' "operations-and'the analytical monitoring? A Yes, there-was discussions. All right. Now what was that discussion? A Well, it was generally agteed that the prima? ?responsibility for olean~up of the spill was the railroad; and-that Western Environmental Servicos Was retain?a by tho .railxcad to clean up the spill. And that EPA and the . Missouri Department of Natural Resources had to agree with the cleanwup method, and that they woula work with tho othora in developing the preper cleaneup method. 7Q - All right. new the next sentence there*says, will restrict its monitoring activities to those areas 'itVbelieves to be necessary to-gzoteet the environmen? dutiagl -?1??nup operations ah? to-insure that the ol?anuy is oompl?t'd? 11_ noun :1 PLNUAD HAIUNNE. NJ. 01001:20_ -21 '22 24': -of those analyses to convince th.emSe1ves that th work done in a satiSfactory manner." Do you see that, sir? A lYes.. Was there any discusSion at the meeting about that subj ect? A I think-it was -- I what_was said. But the gist of it was that the basic respon? sibility for collection of samples and of analysis would be Western Environmental Services. The EPA would monitor enough by Environmenta1 Services was sufficiently accurate, and . that they would concentrate in areas where they were concern-g7 Ied about possible public health effects. Q. 'All right. I'm interested in that last phrase,? "that they woula_concentrate in areas where they were- concerned about-public health effects;"> Is that what the EPA said at the time? -A I believe so. .Now who was the spokeman? Was that Harry Gilmer?. believe so. I'm not sure; but I thinh'so. .'Now; if yes turn to the next page, where the minutes themselves actually begin. right under the head1ng "Background" there, there' a paragraph where it intrOdUCes someone named Bill Rice.- Do you see that, sir? yes, sir; ?.112 ?fonm IL zda can envo~?a; _ovooz '19, 21 - 23? - name Steve_Sisk,v Now_heq'i guess, was anather BEA man that W53 there. .shallow holes between the xaila and_betweeh the ti?s. The -?ollectionholes ?e?e appreximately?12_inahes deep.' Eight .Samples were collected;?one was ?ollected east of where the 'And it talks about them being collected by EPA and Western' Now, how many people were at this meeting on: behalf cf the A I believe 13. ?9 . All right. Nawy'how did that :el?te to-the- number cf people repgesenting other Ozganiz?tions all'?ut; together? A. i think there were 12 otheis. All right.? . A All total. .0 A Twenty?five at'the meeting. If I can direet your attention to two paragraphsJ after that, sir, there's a garagraph that begins with the A Yes; _They talk about.their samples being collected fram_ spill began and.s?ven.were ealleated.in the spill zone itSelfg and being split. Right? 13, PENGAD NJ. 07002 IL 324 a 10' l2 l3 ?14 v.15,. 1.6 17 18 i9 ?22 "23? 1] page, the following chart shows the results of tha'ahalysea . Now there is a map here, 31:. wh1ch is Attachment 3 to this exhibit. lIt?s the 1ast.page. De yea a?e that. I I sir? A Yes. Does that, according to what was discussed at 11 the heating, Show the locations where the collection ho1ea? -describad 1n that paragraph we just read were done A Yes. were made? A Yes, Maw they?xe talking abeut 4+ farther down 0f Ehh an? cf Western Envitanmental Services; centectg-sir?' A Yes.? . Now what do the$e numbers have to 60, 330101, 102. 103? What do these sample numbera have t9 do with the 1 location re?lected on the map? I I 1 A ,Well, E30101 is sample 1; Sample 2, and 39 forth. All right. 'So that they if the numbers 0n map are air-02 through 03 A "233.. harnespond he these results that age. state?.en pages n1 aha {43 ?a roan u. 246 PENAGAD co.. BAYONNE. N.J. 0790: mars-2.2 23i' .ane,that?s g?tvthedeawing of the railroad track. ,on g;aund,' does it net, sir? ze$peat as there being a-liQuid 33? appesed to~frozen.materia1? A That?s cezzect. 0 All right. Now I'd like to direct your_attentioht ?9 page numbered 2 of the exhibit, sin; A Qf ?he exhibit? I'm serry?. Page numbered two of the minthSa? A Oh, I'm sarry. - _i'mi$sp0ke. That pag? right th?re. It?s the? A A Yes. About here. Right below that drawing it,statesi,5' A Yes. Raw what was ais?ussed at this meating oh_Januaty MR. CARR: -Your Homer, I object-to any such aisaussianc It?s hearsay. He can report what's in this: I.mame. But I objegt to anything this witness might say as to I what.wa? said at-that meeting.5 MR. HEINBMAN: Well, ybur Hebor, We've be?n talking for the la?t 10minatesAabOut what the discussions were_at the meetingi bbjaatihg at this.p@1n? in'uime?? ??robiem not having pud?le Or frozen'substance but a liquia .15 row'IL? us PENGAD co.. amount. 01002 11? 14. _15f1" 16 118:1. higzb'i? :85? g75f7243?f* -, because 8f the 888888 81 the eemments. It?s _h88388y1] ,7th8 meeting 1 t881? that Western and th? EPA were andther way 8f doing that whieh he may net 88 directly, and I obje8t 88 it. :588v1885 being a .11quid on the 888888 iiquid'onwtne 828885? ?32 Objection 18 sustained._ It ithearsa I =(By7Mr?VHe1n8man) Your Hpnor, I 8bject to that. That's THE Objeation 18.8uatained.' It is the. 8888. I (By Mr. Heineman) Wh8 w8s the 8nev~? was th8x8 88y888 at the 888ting who d188ussed the statement set f8rth as a 8:88188 th 8:e? A, 088 8f the Western Environnental Serv1888 888818.V A11 right. And th8 minutes h8r8 r?fl?ct that there was 8 8888188 8888888 18 was a liquid on the 8:888? I A, . '=Yes. I All right? 818 that*wes?ern EnVIronmental .. MR. 9333!. 288: 3888:, I 8hject. f?(8y Mr. 38188888) 8888 8888 there was a Would yen wait until I finish my 1 ?ijeg?i?n? 3 A8 18 new saying th8 8888 thing indirectly again 1-16 71{ 13] . visiIa 9159' . .. 19- And the :aiIrpad. sorry, EPA, DNR and the gthat he eanaot do dizeetly. Heineman, I'm admonishing you n?t to d9 that. .listad-there. is theta not? 1-minut?s speak to: themselves; Ceunsel pezsists in7doing?9I 7th9t.whieh he knows-Is impreperg 7 by Weakern that were groposed, I thInk. by Western ?Envizonmental Services, and Gas of th9se metheds was agreed 99113939; THE GOURT: Objection is suStained. (By Mr. Heineman) All right. Let's leak at two paragraphs down from there sir.? There's anather prolemI'3_> A Yes. i It Say?, Iruh?ihg into latg? Volume 9f mat9319119_ geozreat, airYes. If this is in the winches, can we assume that there was a discussion CARR: Your Honor, I object to that. "The- THE COURT: Obj?ctien is sustaineagii .(By Mr. HeinemAn) Who was it; sir, thatthe leading form of_the RepArase 11 please. WA?tAer or not may I ask 51:, this; w?ke 1A931?81x samples, these-quaiitativeg . :?hults, discuss?d_11 the ma?tingmon.JaAuaryp26, 1979? At that maetiAg, 61d Wes 161A and tAe EPA AAve - 0f the material that xema1ned 1n th? tza?k? . Well, 11 samp1es that had been tAken Auxing_the B16 they neea qualitatlve sample results AA to Awhether tAe1e Was a sme112 Nos:- :hAve;no >thh1ng,'yAur Shank: w. 1Yeu*may step- other queStions, your Honor.7_" A. winner ?mum. i'plout 1 Hum 1114 n? 1 1:10 112;.: I: '~113.54 A?Member that. '?Av?b1117: 351 whatevet1g.?? IMI?3if1111that You are still under eath. .I 233* as RR-adv?xsej . Mil-g?it??ss? 1? . this paint a having previausly bee? called under Seetion 2-1192, having yreviously been swezn1 testified further Mr. PAIR, yen understand your Herr_, _for the "recer?, Ahis 1s A xecall 95 Mr. Bark. as an adverse witness av- 5.undex that section the rule that I keep fargetting1 _51 71102, 11 11? THE COURT: 116217 AlwAys to be knewn As Section 601 MR1 CARR: 11021 gormeinIknown3AS's?ct10nf601'M MR1 CARR: Having use? 1A for Abaut 38 years,. 5119,?35 (By MR1 Carr) Ar 1 PArk1 of course eu understand .1. OORM IL rim-GAD co.. nav?onuc. NJ. 01002 .11 . Jo 12 1?3 141 _11555. 16 ?:17 119 -26 22.? I'd like to hand yeu_some exhibits that IPWaat1 to get your agreement on. I hand you.what's'been markedf?;a. -: 'PlaintiffFS Exhibit 1149, and ask you to look at that and" .confirm that that was dated April the 5th, 1979. It has 'attached to it tables that show the pretence 1n the .1 products produced at Monsanto, and specifica11y the third page of that exhibit shows that the 2,3,7, 8 column, in parts per billion that there are respectively, 23 parts per b1111en, 25 parts per b111ien; '180 parts per b1111on, and 240 parts per b111ien of products? ident1fied in the Chlorinated Phenol Department, Santephe and Chler1nated Phenol. VObjection to the question as repetitious.' He's been thrOugh this exhibit befbre. MR. CARR: I know I?e been threugh this exh1bit,? your-Honor, and not with this witness;- And this is a dpredicate to apather point that I wish to establish. THE COURT: You may proceed. Go ahead. THE WITNESS: I didn't follow you, Mr. Carr. don' see that column here. (By Mr. Carr) The last page attached_to the_ decumentg be you see the column 2,3,7,8 -- C14 2,3,718? A Yes, I'do see that. a 1 All right. Now the figures that I read appear in that column, do they not, sir? It was.va1ues ea isomer._ 1 AI -I don?t recall the figures You read, Mr. Carr. 723, '.23 ?1.324"? Well, I'll read it again. That column shows that in the chemicals produced in the Santophen end Chlorinated Phenol Department, 25-parts per billion.in the - 2,3,7,8 column, 25 parts per billion in that column; 180 parts per billion in that column, 240 parts per hillionIin that eoluhn. Isnit that correct, sir? A Mr. Carr, I'll have this is the first time I've seen this exhibit. I 11 have to study it a moment._' I I see the numbers that you read. They are in that column. headed (:14 2, 3, 7 8. I cannot make out the wording over on the left- hand side of this chart. IQ . Well, Mr. Park, you don?t need to, because those. are batch numbers that have previously beeh?identified as products inIthe Chlorinated Phenol Department, in Plaintiff'e Exhibit 1135. I don't know whether I Went through it with 'you, but I went-through it with other witnesses. The Monsanto Number3 654, Monsanto Numbers 697, two of them that 'are 697 there, all have been identified as chlorinated phenols. And specifically Santophen.in the one instance;- I beiieve, and I know 2g4-Dichlor0phenol in the Number 697. So at any"rate, what I'm asking you to agree. sir, is that- this.exhibit rehorts on the 2,3,7;s isomer as identified 1h: the SahItopheh l-and chlorophenols as I've related it tonou, as I've read to you. A Mr. Carr, looking at the heading which says, Environmental Scienees Data on Santophen 1 and Chlorophenols. I I Yesi IL 14 Irsmuw co.. amount. N.J. 01001 10 Ill 12 13? I 15 I6. lgII 20-" 211 I121.II 1??numhers that you had. That's-as much-as I can 1611 66661 1th1s document. 16 that 661umn under theI 2. 3, 7, 8 heading. .aa appear in the co1umn. I'pratected;1s that right, sir? Amisinterprets the document and misstates prior testimony 'tien h11 been 6666 and 666166 before. '1ah1e taken from Exhibit 1135, 166, Mr.IPark I aon' 1 want I 16 Im?ke 1 his thing 666 then 166k down the column-and read those~ . W611, that's all that I want you to tell about th1sfdocument. A A11 right. That I have correctly read the figures that appear- I A Yes, there are other f1gures. But these four I The other. figures that I appear there are 611 non A Yes. . QI Th6 onIyIaff1rmat1ve figures 1n the batch I entitled 654, you have 23, and 25 parts per billion 2, 5; 7,8 respectively, and in the hatch enumerated 697 you haVe I186 and 2 40 parts per billion reSPeetively.v MR. MUSGRAVE: 6hject to the question, which with regard t6 the document, with regard to what the 661666 means in 66nnection with labeiing 6f this 3, 7, SI and what I the document 1t$elf says down at the bottom. THE COURT: Objection is overruled. That.ohjee~ I I 1 (By Hr. Carr) Do you see -- this is 1 later "numb snows. NJ. 07002 FORM IL 246; /f??gg433;gf, '10 .312 13 '14 '-715 3'16. 37 1618 __119 620' 7- 23?j I Colfthor6T' I got those f1guros,- do you not, sir? 'thoy'a b6 16 the same ballpark._ ,haVe to strain your eyes, you can look at 1135~ B. 'goos to those same two values. appreciate 1f You wouldn3t mark the canrt' exhibits. . described? A . 3 3' A11 r1ght..IAnd.youisee tho 614 numbers 6V6r A .Yos. I 66.6 'Thgt are all 561666.16 one Columnf. - Q7 36'Th6 C14 y6u have 16 that 6xhib1t are 16 two co1umns, 1,3,6 8 6t 61., and 2, 3, 7, 8; 136' that correct, sir' A Yes. And if you add those two columns together, you A L6t me 366, Mr. Carr. I Could you get 1135 out. a A They don't appear to 66 1666:1661. _B6t I suppose And if you will -. and to h61p you, so y6u don?t MR. MUSGRAVE: I'm sorry, what did You 66y, '1135936 . MR. CARR: That' 6rrect. . A (By Mr. Carr) Also look at 1135 C,b6cause"1i A- Those two 6616663 in this first dooument Mr._Park, I haven't asked y?u a questiOn yet, and. 136 s6rry..' 265/ as? ?Es 1 1 PENGAQ-CO.. BAYONNE. NJ. 07002 IORM IL 249 210 75 [1111? 12?: 7713' '146 15' 16 7. 7117 7 ~13 '720 7. _f'723-T yau erase yam: marks, please. Serty; My eyes are not what they were years ago. L77777 17 New, 1f yau look at 1135- it bre aks these ,1t is a typed duplicate of the exhibit that's attached te 1149,_or at 1east_par1 of it. Now on 1135-c, in the typed 7pert10n,'do yet See related to M81654, rthe f1nd1ngs of 23 Ii?and 25 parts per billion 1n the 2, 3, 7, 8 TCDD celumn? Right here, Mr. Parks. B18 you see the same figures appear in the Apr11 document that appear 1n this later June document, I do see these numbers. QL A11 right. You 3159 see the ether numbers thatcolumn, et a1., don you, sir 7 For that ME VOnly in these twe eases. -That's all I'm asking, Dr. Patks. All 7-Yesg I do see theta numbers. 7 And it is repeated in the June 26,1979 document, ?those handwritten figures that appear on the April 5th, 1979 dqcument with relation to the.hatch that I just deseribed to yhu, an8_?or yOur information, the 654 hae?been; _'previeu317 deseribed aS?parachlorephenbl. 'New, the next"' 71 want d1rect your attention to the batch 697, sir. Yeu see 697? A I see that._ 19': Has the figures of 180 and 140 parts per billion 7'in the 7 6, 7, 8 TCDB eelumn? FORM IL 245 .I shown N.J.- 'ovooz 7:13:33- 10 . 11? ,1211I I.22 1.1 23 . tcolumn; isn't that correct, sir? A Yes. And those art the same figures that appear 1n . the handwritten exhibit of Apr11 5th,1979 1n that same.? A That does appear to be; yes; Yea. Again for your 1nfarmation; MB 697 15 2 ,4-Diahloraphanal. Now, Mr. Park, you, of courSe, recagniza?' that 2 ,4aD1ch10rophenol and parachlorophenol are products manufactured by Mensanto, do yau not, sir? . A If you say they ara, I accapt 1t, Mr, Carr._ not that -- Mr. Park, I am not a w1tness in this case. A Yes. I The only knowledg? that I haVa 1s_from witnesses and exhibits that have come to my attehtion 1n this ?333. You are an emplayee of Monsanta. I'm ot ga1ng to he put in the position of telling yen anything in that regard. I11 I you don?t know that 2, 4- Dichloraphenol and parathlorOphenol' is a product of Monsanto and was a product in 1978 '79, A please say so, sir. Mr. Carr I be11e ve I recall that 2 -- I'm just not that certain._ Can I check on thiS? . Mr. Park, don?_t you recall that we Spent days cross examiaing you about whether or not you?re going to rephrt ta TSCA, under the TSCA report ta EPA that your 2, 4-Dich10rophenai had IORM IL ?08 07001 PENGAD co? BAVONNE. NJ. 10' .11319_ )112. -21 24 .11 ?bn?t you recall we agent 5- this $pring3 a few manths?ag? 9-11 Q. :0 ion rec?11 that, don?t yb?3 31:? 11:tec111 ihat, y?s. 1. Q, And - _1 The qther was pataz_ Q1 1 1P3i?chlorophenbl, IA g,'1'm sorry, I just don't ramemberj' use to make Sa?go-Jiff ph??g .You_k?p? that, yang-Mr. Pgrk? 111$?1 earf, 1' aorry3 but 1 dealt; Mr. Park up Qizh7v you w111 accept the exhibit that daecribes these chemical as chemicals in the Santopha? and chlardphen?1? Do?yog accePt that Monaanto-Doeument? W?n't yo?yaMnu'Park? Which document are ou speaking of? . The April 5, 1979 document th at I handed you at' .the outset. 31:.1 Hell, it speaks of chlarophenals. Yes; that' what I'm askiag yau, sir_ . Hum u. 248 07002 PENGAD 90.. HAVONNE. 'n ?12 .13 14 15 16-? '17 .18' i? [22' A, D?jyo? reebguia? as one of the you, 31t?1 . I don?? recbgnize itg'but'l guess I-can gasum? that it is an?gv 'vQ Eon; Hr; Park, you in yqar position, at least 11? y?ur.poai?ion in 1979 as one 9f the att?tney?'fcf had t59P?381b111?1?3 ?ith'regard t9 what'the pabii? was to and_wha??the p?blic y?s-npt to be told about Man?snto?s'pfoducts, did you'not, sir? . A '3 I be asked to gnbmin comments #3 prep?aqd released on,o?eaai??. . ngg"rark."rhxs exhibig~?agea June 6, 1979 is in ?Viden??g and ya; recognize ghatxig talks ab?ut diaxi? .?onca?tratien in 23? and OPC.erude. ?ou see that, air? f: . - . mvsanAvnx- Give me the.exh1bit numbei,j Ipiease; L. - . . CARR: horryj?Mt; '-and-1 the court); exhibit; Would yak mark that is agathe: exhibit? Carr) Yo? rgcoghi?e, Mr. Park, do ?bu {gee that th?f?T?b1e 2 -4 have you got in. Couns?l? I"haygfigg??ihank you, roan IL 143, 07002 PENGAD C0.. BAYONNE. NJ. 10? Us: _12? i3 . I'114f i5 '16, 43" 7 19_ 722? 2g?gniehipro?henol. '12a2;A i?no evidence; if it'pl?aae the Court. By Mr; Carr)? All-right.' 12A9 reports the" dioxin dancentratian in parts pa: million A (Plaintiff's Exhibit 1542 was marked ,ior id?ntification by the gburt ?5 'l.(By Mr; Carr)' I hand you now what's he?n Exhibit 1542. ?nd ask you.1? you niie'th?t779u ?re listed th?re as one of the that7?on?anto_document? 7M3, CARR: and what will to the dopument, relevanee"3 m?tgiialiiy; ?e probative value.? THE COURT: Objection is ovegrulad. 1542 13" . .- (Plgi?tiff?s Exhibit 1542:; was marked, f9: identification by the court reporter,)" . Hr. 6&rr) 1542?: 15 Bible? a? ?g 15?2;?94?3 FORM IL 24 07002 . PENGAO COL. BAYONNE. NJ. we?. 10 _12' l3 14 1'5 "16? 17. 18 19 .1 in '21 .636 Via a blow up .1 believe it is, yes; CARR1. I offer 15492 A Auto evidence, your Honor. Same-Obje??ion. Same ruling; 21?11 incorporate yOan6:i argument?V ?'(BYer; Catr)? Mr. is a memo prep?feif - by Acmeonegin?four'prees or PUB11?-f31?t10n3 departmenta'is it not; R.L;.Neunreiter? VA Someone in Monsanto yes; he's inig_;g; M6nsa nto' Pub1ie_ Re1 ations Department. And number of people, according to this list, received copies of this response_ t6 the Post Dispatch . . 'reporter, did they not, sir?z A thEY did, -YOu?Were-one of were you nbt,af?i A Mr1'Park, According to?thie:exhib1t ther e-hedf been, and the jary knows about it, and I d6n' think you ve been interrogated about it except in passing by Mr. Musgravef?' about the 0S HA erection of dioxin in the chlorophenol nnit at KrummriCE. you recall that a . a, . Join? IL '24 a . 143.1; 01061 .: fiig 1? ?13' 1,4} - 1's- 'je '171_. 19", ?m .Tf?l '311 pa; out in June? 18: ,Tna?counr: Objeetion'ia overrnxed. 3y Carr) A?ow, this tress th? reportgr was told, and that'repott?t 13 Roy Malena of" the-Post Dispafeh do you knew Roy'Malone? No, I'do not. Nave: met him? Not that I can recall;v All right; 1n?any,?vengisitlaays hate that 2 was za1d on June 9. 1979 specifieglly that Qur analysis af a ascent product did not indicgte the presence ofk2t3,7,8 ?iexin,? De you see that, 61t?'? A Yes, I do. . Now in point of fadt, that 13n't_the_truth. [is it; air? 1A . donft know, Mr. Gartz I wduld:asaum? tha? it 13. the exhibit that'you ha?e; th?c Was dated? ?April tha'Sth,'1979, two months beforg this press rele?qe,. A that exhibit i??inates the presence of 2;3,7,8 feDD?ip ybu: f'pt?duet samplg, does it'not, 31:2 - an; gusenAvaz- ehjgge, ya?i Honor, at. eatr913~w;;gi - . 2533 'ronm u. 245 . anvormE. 07002 PENGAD 1-0- 12 13 i4 '15' id 1:17 .18 '2in misleading the jury as to what the says. as_1135 shuns product samples in JEne and thug; had Tenn.? . w1Eh sampling EhaE was eanducte? in February of '79, where 2 1E3 3 3 E6 what tha of what the reporter wanted E9 referring E9 -samp1es EhaE have dates thaE are noE ant. ('Tha documEnE talks about Eac.ent product samp1ea, Eh1ch 1c JuEe, not the dates of the producta that he' 9 identified.; no you-hav??anything?you want to an VfgiE 'M131aading the w1tneas and HR. CARR: No;_your Henor41? We have plancy of exhibits that HUSGRAVE: Then why 114 you THE Let him,f1ni?hg Eusgravg. ME. Musgrave;gi?s?i?;let him, you may proE?ed;l - 1 (By Mr. New, Ehe THE GGURT: The objeet19n 1s oveEru1ed. By. Mr. Carr) the sent Ence of what reporter wou1d wEnE Ea know, bacaEsa. Ehe BSEA Eeleaae deals was a spill that took place in Eha p1anE. regall get into details MR. 0bjeeE-Eo'Ehe qaast1on 11331 FORM -24 07002 PENGAD CO.. BAYONNE. N.J. hp _13' 14f~ 151. '16 V171: 1:911; ?"16216 221:; 23' f: 24 ., 'Malone and the- Post Dispatch, was that your pr oduct samp1e .6 r0f Wha? the dbcument aaYS. It says a. recent pr-oduct agmp-le. I recent.produet sample d1d not indigate_the presence of 'i3naly?is did indicate the.preaence of 2,3,718?61axin?: kngw, the stat; of 1166.33 ta I to yh?t 1;;y did or didn't do, of wan?Ih?V I COURT: Objection thi?k>1t c?ils?f?r the state of ?ihd; 1Q. Mr. Carr) Mr. Park, i?e you at Monsanto gave to tha public at 1arg? through Roy_' 616 not indicate the presence of 2, 3 7 8 diexia. .Mn. MUSGRAVE: Object to it. It-s THE Objection 1: avertuled. Q-. (By Mr. Carr) Isn't that_e?rfect, M1. Bark2'v 6 -6,As the que8t19n waa_phfased, 6 have to say 9.7: You'd have to say n02 9 WaSn' the feporter teld that, exaatly what it says heVre, that the ana1ysia 6f the A '6 That is cortectd Q- . Aha is-there-any statement there that gnyA . 1; There is no statement on this.p?per that so ?nates; Wduid Yen as a reasonable persan, if you rea6 that, wouldn *t6 yen be 1 and to believe that Mansanto has fC?? FORM IL 2?8 07002 . PENGAVD- CO.. BAYONNE. ".1102 11V9 312; I4 r'153 17 7' 1?19'5? H.3V221 #31237?? cheekedic? mater1al and this 983A release galking abo?tV d1oxih 1nV tha praduets 19 somehow at faulty {sulty..?r ?313: 13nd that, in fact, Monsanta doesn' have any products that 3 as 2 3, 7, 8 diax1n 1n 1t, wouldn' you and that as a rea? sengble person, Mr. Park? MR. Object.td the Question as calling .?or speeulat ion, canjecture, and vague and 1Vnde?1n1te, l?ua1ng a legal term, at potent1a1 1ega1 term ofV Vreacanab 1e _peraon. THE-COURT: Objection 1 oVerr?led.71 3Q Carr) How Would VyiuVreadithdt, Mr;- .Park, 1f ydu wouldn' read it that wa?. - A Just simply that a recent analysis of a product sam?1e'd13'not?1ndicate the.nresence of 2 I would? . nut read 1: more braad1y to go any farther. . If I und.erstand you correetly, 12 you had one xtecent praduct that was sampled. and if that one sample dni-dn' shew 2 8 in it, that that' 3 &11 youre rea11y Vs ay1ngV there. Is that the Vway you interpret that 7 doesn any Von1y one has been done.V*AllJit. says 19 that an.ana1y313 of a recen Vpreduat sample did not.- indicate th-e presence of 2,3 7, 8 dioxin. JQV. Than 1?,1n fact, you had a vacant praduet sample that did net indie.at? the prusence of 2, 3, 7, 3 1893 1n3??63 07002 Foam 3 VPENGAD CO.. HA-VONNE. id'- 711 'fizi .15, . 1'7 18 i9 ;2r 1121 '11?3? ?733324711 sir? have in mind'that well, what he was told,? -1f we hai? a Single aamPIE-that_shows no 'what'?he 93339 was tolis and What_th?fPubli? is ultimatelny?I? your v1ew at the time you saw that, air? Carr. I don't ?03-19 VficalIy remember or 393' remember reading this. 1' askinggi 1*yau whether at not you would interpret that, and I admit . thgt.6c?33??d 3336 six ygars ago. You I'would have a '??ho?ygifji a 333 I a not asking yen whether 2 Ithis statement'would be_technicallj correct, 7A.- 1 though you thousa?d other ?rov?f: du?t sampl33 tested that 811 of w?ieh showed the presence 03121 2, 3, .7, 3 183? that correct, 81:7 .1 T?e statement would 3:111 be correct. 1 A11?r1ght. >And when you tgad.that press told #33 cbrract, and we'r? not misleading anyone? 3Was that . IA . It' certainly possibie that I might not.ha?e ever? see3 this, even thaugh m_namedjaa one to whom it positinn to Dread everything.that-comea into me, I.Q I I'm not asking Yb? whether you speei~ f99: there?s naxquggivable way at this point in time you could remember Whe?h325ybu_did_0r did not get this pregas?raiease?lT? JL 248 07002 5-PENGAD ?c20.. .BAVONNE. 2'2jii_f 21212 "1,3 2145 2 125digestion. 2 2 2118 2 f55izl Ly 9u do or an not remember. ?I'D?Dskins'you; Sir3*?o?id?i?u 57 5interpret press reieasc as being correct 13 you had a h?8 product sampling that showed no 2 3.7 8 TCDD, although yeuv 27that- showed he presence 05 2, 3, 7, 8 'ragard to. 'N?unre1ter and Malone, I would think this sentence,"just 'Ds 1t. and I wou1d fee1 it vauld be technically correc:_27 at as 2he Days, rgeent produet sample did no: indicate 5 Dbe appropriate response2 to make 1? you knew that you had 1 29'99 tests that showed 2, 3, 7, TEDD- was there, yen had7 2250ne test tDat showed it wasn 'tt there? had one hundred otDers or on.e thousand other product sampling?j-2 MUSGRAVE1 bject to the question. It assumetfgw {Deta- not in ev 1denee for the witness ta speeulata with THE COURT: Objection is THE Recognizing tDat this mDy not deseribe everything covered 1D the conversation between if the: a were a number 0? analyses that found dioxin, and" 2? the presence of 2, 7 8 dioxin. 2.TDat. mDy have bee the pQ (By Mr. Carr)2 I'm sorry255 2" A may have been the question. 12taka it than that you.&grea that this would' MR. HUSGRAVE: Sumo abjeetian. 5 -PORM 846I 'owoqz PENGAO co" nAvouug..NJ? 8'727'8 138 A 7?6. 81278-v5s' ?81g1243L8 8883hawing the presence of 2, 3, 7, 8 TODD, or that wh1ah coeluteS 8 with and that you had :11 that knowledge, test after ten 811113? Mr. Carr) II: that correct,"sirf Same ruling. 8 THE WITNESS: not say1n t.hat, Mr. Carr-, 9.88. 8I (By Mr. Carr)? 8811,1sn't that really what you 83:8 saying, Mr. Park, because you know, and8 .we have -ample 8 8d8cumentat10n here to 8show that 2, 3, 7 8 TCDD, or that which 8 'coelntea w1th 2, 3, 7, 8 TCD8D, has been 1n your produets and 8 remains in year products up unt11,_ 0h, '82, at least, if 8yff;j 18280: aerVes me correctly, that you at Manganto knew that 8 all IdIuring this unbroken period of time7 You Iknew that. MR MUSGRAVE: Object t6 the questing. year ?-Monor, ha 3 ask1ng the question about what ha would have i 'dIene 18 June of '79; and than he challenges his answer by- 8 talking abeut 8ana1ys 1s and events that aecurred after June 9?Vf791 a an improper quast1on to challenge :87: witness I_object8 to in; THE COURTa8?thactionris dvertaled. It's 8 7prapet question. You may proceed, Mr, Carr. . 78Q8 8 (By Mr. Carr) Assuming t?ated? 8 its praducts, its Santaphen, Santoph8en, and we have ?88 th?se. 38183 .do8wn from 78 and ?79, and those exhibits I _dpn' need to Show you, but Ithey' here in evidan8ce, a nd w? . 010v. unlunnh. NJ. 10 I'1r7 12C ?13 1'4, 1117? 1 szoil. _72i; 122?"' ;,7'233 ment1cn of the numerous tests tha_t. you conducted showing -.2, 7, 8 TODD, or that which looks like and you ILhad *pla question.l Object the questian as assuming facts not 'there' a no eviden?a showing detectible TCDB in these '01 product showing this pr1ar to June of which 1:7 i totally incorrect. 'propet question and basad matters in evidence. iAnSwer '7..the quantian. piaasa. h?nest With the pub11e7-- 10>bjaet to the question MR.-GARR: May I finish it, Counsel? MR. MUSGRAVE: I thought you were, ?T?x COURT: ?Go ahead, Mr. Carr.? mantio? of t?e numerous teats that yen had. including thi s' on? that we'va just discussed in April of '79, making no.L '13 fair and haneat When- you say that there wasn't any in chi sample? MUEGRAVE: abject to ewe question, a mu1:1--3g? in evidence, making raferen?as to analysis in '78,wh1eh products, and object to the use of the term "numberous test%>' THE COURT: abjeetion is overruled. -It?s you consider that this ib-Eeing fair ?ndCi? by saying to them, making no _other teats that showed there VaSn? any? Do you think chid1;_ IUMM 0L ?4 A UAVUHNL. NJ. no ?is-7' j?liv? .7 19:' :20 11?: 233? THE Hr. Carr, this paper here'wag ?at :31 Vprovided to- the pub11c. This is An 1n??rneleeom?un1cet1?n.?f??7 does not purpert to describe eve.ryth1ng that went on 1n~ the conversagion between Neunre1ter and the reporter. -haV? n6 wey 0f kha?ing any teaSan that this 13 not The reporter may well have asked the quest1on, "Have you ,made a recent product samp.1e nnAlys1s that did noE 1nd1eete?5*; t-he pr eaenee of 2, 3, 7, 8 could haVe 7' Answered, 1: that was the ease. "Yes,'we have made sueh'af l.recent prbduct analysis,"ah? thenxs? stated here. (By Mr. Garr) Mrvaerk,7?o refieSh your Aenoty?fi5 as to the June 8 news release f1nd1ng, what 1: se1d_ -b3 _wae that OSHA hAd detected 300 parts par b11119n 1n thA '2 h-Dichlerophenol cf what they thbught was 2, 3, 7, 8 TGDD, 7,0: half of which they thoAght WAS 2, 3, .7, 8 TCDD, and also TVdiacusaed f1nd1ngs in a wipe sample f1nd1ng TED there .1 'Monsanto put out a press releaAe seying thac they have checked these praducte down to 10 parts per b11110n.at e- detectien level of 10 parts per billion and haven't fauna lit. .Th?tss?the_nrese release-that_waa pug eut.- ?ew the --71:377 MR. mussRAvE:"0b3eAt, Couneel, speaks-~ because it 13 a mischaracterization 6f theT??ideheeAEF The 'n_ews release ha has reference ta speaks to, qutA, AA, recent preAAet aanple, Alone queues. The: is del1berace FORM IL 248 . 07002 PENGAO co..V BAYONNE. NJ. '10] 'n '12' -r33 16' 17 .js "j?t 1 '2'07?3 ,Viz A 2.35 f- _aMdV wanted to raise 1t. misrey?eag?gagi?nvb? Mr. ?62M113~1neonnisten?' with ?hiA.Me?uM?n?L" Obje?tion is overruled. CaMr) ?ow, the reporter in this cier cumstance is getting More szeeific. -Ha wants mMreMiMformagiggi tioM than the press release gives, dens he not, 31:7. -Mn. MusaaAvM: object. spncuiation A na Mongectur#_ 2. as to what the reporter is dong or Mot dong. 0 bjection is MVerruled. Carr) 'Isn?t.thac eqrreat, Er; ParR1'7 I deM? know, Mr. Carr. 33M may hav? just M2that th1 s- question was not 'aVnawered by the press It?e1ease Well, Reunreitez says 311 these questions wera' answered tram the prepared queseion and answer farm.V This 13,Vha kept ta the- prepared questian and- answer Vthat was supplied qr prepared by him to answer theae questions. M?ut'M??f inV this instance he deviated from it somewhat. 3? went mare precisely and paid a recent product Manple did not 12. indiaate the preseche of 2 3, 7, 8 TCDD, of diexin._ New, Hr. Park, the thrust of my queatian hare MR. MUSGRAVE: I object to Ceunsel's speach.-Ml? .33 just madc Van affirmative statement cf tact. That waa;V'V Mat posed as a question._ And it a testimony by Bounsel as Lu; Unlunn ?210ffj23? 7 'gg?g?i gh?fygg sample and.YGu .ff? i? :tian 3nd than f*11 tale." to What Mt; Eeuhr?izer was a?1ng or notrdoing'with _to the quantians gnd'anawersg It?s gatally_1mpropei for maka~eon?1usi?nary akgtements; 15 abjeg? to it ?u61raqueot,?t be ram chant: ,Mr. Carr. pl?aa? (3y Mr. Gaff) In that ftah?wotk; Mr, yea-?e: agree that this r??btterQ ?$nti?5 mateap?e1?1e i?formatian;?gs givgn informatihn-thai ?ould be ghtally V?mtalca?ing? I HUSGRAVE: Obja?tntd?tha?guesc10h~??g?nae t: ffa?g?brk that Mr, ngt,?aa tugtifgednza.r?tha?? thg?'any ?ttne?s, and ?gs: is, th??a?ote. t??t1fj1?gfai'f3: t?.?hat this r?y?rnar wa? ?aigg or'n?t what Hr; He?nrei??r was dei?s EEQre?s #6 eviaenaajas? 9? objeatibn in lr?preparatdty ta the quegtian; an? the qu??tiaa as ?.whale. I yla?se5'?r. Park.? K6. I Eat?! Ht; carr.; ?fQ (By Mg; Gert) 'Frem this ?1nd1?ata :?at the gazite'591 IL 14 8 07001 . BAVONNE22-" for speculation and conjecture as tb what the o?h?r?queatiank?i" w?r? that were responded to as set out in were giv??; and as it's pure speculation and conjecture to 'vas a eanversation between Heumxeiter an? the asked you, Sir. I've asked you doesn't this document questigns based upqn ?analyges.that showed the presence ?6 indicated Obje?t to the qdestion- It 53113 n6 foundation laid that this witne?s knows what thy-other qu?stions were that Were asked, what the responSes were try and ahswer that Question. THE COURT: Objectidn 13 avarr?zed. An?wef' the q?eStion please. THE >The document indicates that th?r?" Ireyorter, and that a number-of other questiens and answered. (By'Mr. Carr) 'well, that rehlly isn't what suggest that, from what yeu see there, unless you have same ,additien?l fa?ts that you haven't told as sam? additional knowl?dge 0f w?at went on at ragswer, talk about 2,3,7,3 TCDD being there If?und.b? Mons?ntb. and than he was ?eld specifically that? g' 'tbevt??en?'preduct 88M?1e_did not indicate the pres?neey?iaff??l 11mm IL 0,001 mm n.1, :_Joq?i 3 "iiw"' ffj? ._222%622 12335337-' "or indications of 2 3, 7 8 being in its 8333333? 7323suggest8, improper question for this '73have to answer that question no. .7322'? 33333 333333 .333 333 33 3331333333 333 33 3133 ?33 333 '3"7Press, You better 8811 3P the ??St Dispatch, call up Roy 339f2xMalane and tell h1m :58: while we 81 d8h8ve recent product '8ample analyses that indicate 88 2 3 8 TCDD - we- 've got 3*ot?er analyses that 68 indicate tha presence of 2, 3, 8 1? you,_812? 2 7}82, 3, 7, 8 .j Don you consider that, air, misleading 15 view'81 7.8! the knowledge that Monsanto h8d that 1t 81d h8ve evidenca?L MR. Object to the question 88 calling 22. i3;??r conclusion, speculation, vague 88 t_o what the document_3323 THE Objecticn 18 overruled. THE.WITNESS.L Mr. Carr, as ydu phrased I 11 (By Mr. Carr) A11 133888833353? :28nd 1f yo got this document 8nd read it, y?u, Mr. park, ?[282: would n8t have called Mr. Neunreiter and 3818, '"Look,- you rail '233Ydu. --0 course, would not tell Neunreiter to do that, would5_?; 2 "gSince yOu hav? thelf'rame 8? 1nd that -you juSt answered to, ?2_:Af 33 If 818 conversation had been totally correet ff833' with th? reporter -8nd he informed the reporter and answered 273'? W811, but 11.88 doesn tell the reporter th: 33-.8ll of h1s questions properly, there would 8'8; no reason to?f2?2-?" AA - - 07002 Ps'msm ?eA-v'ounz. ?fu. :12. 13 Vollgr ,16; ?17- 18 2919. 8,82298} VYou' ve got 9 tests that show 2, 3, 7, 8 and one the doosn' :5 ?Park, based on what we know was in the pros a release, and 'what we know is here, and there is no mention of 2, 3, 7, 8 ?about a number of questions that Roy Malone posed, and now_Tp;' You did if he tells the reporter one tenth of the story, show it, he' not telling the whole story, 13 .he, sir? A He may have teld him the rest. 'Now ?'re speculating I gave yOn MR. MUSGRAVE: You're agki?g for the speeulatid? Mr.?cazr. TEE COURT: Objection is overruled" (By Mr. Carr) I gave you the hypothESIa; Mr; found'by Mogsanto. That's the hypothegia_1'7m asking you-to ac?ept,gsir. ..MR. EUSGRAVE: Now I objeCt, your Khmer,- x?bocaus? he'S'changing horses. On the lone hana he a talking 353?? he tolko about a press roleaae. He?s c8onging horses. COURT: Obje.ction is overruled. MUSGRAVE: I object to the question as being?i? 38.18pfoper question and that it be s8r1?kon. I - TEE-COURT: Objection is overruled. The Que?tion is propef. Answer the question, please., don't see that there?s 10.. 3.4. 1.1.1. {flu/FR? a 7 \z ,3 1m .167; Mr. Park. Yau know exactly what I'm asking. Itchat 1t 13 proper 10 31ve the imnression that 1:3 products not contain 2. 3,7,8 TCDD 1 3 that correct,_sir? Conld? Li'you answer that Question specifically so that we could 9118 II on, Mr. Park.;6 'if?You re asking do I feel 1: 1s proper or improyer? '7'111 praduct did,1ndeed have 2, 3, 7, 3 Tenn in it. 11mg, June of H'zhis was In appropriate information document here. Ms?? 1.?8 (By Mr.-Carr) Ih~11?w of the knb?led?? 3?fo In View of the knowledge that Monsanto had that Object tb the question as improner assumption of fac.ts with regard to this po-int 1n THT c0311. 013111111 11 011111111.?] THE Carr) And based upon the knowledge th.at:L H?nh?hta h?d_?3 wall; iqizhat Bark, 1n your; L'Monaanto had as to the presence of 3 8 TCDB, you believj:f8 'jat large that 3 7,8 T898 was not Eound in a recent produegAIL? . if? H. 2? 07002 PENGAD BAYONNE. NJ. ,10 11? 13 11.4 1.5, 16 117' 13 20 22 123* 24 1 CA. I ?ee'nbthi?g in 1Q Is that_?orrect, sir? . s?g nothi?g 1mprope?. All right. New, Mr? Park, a' db?ument marked Plaintiff's Exhibit 1233. would yea look; Do you recoghize'P1S1ntiff's Exhibit 1233? ?as?a.m?mo writ?en by Dallas Ar?strong??_r A Yes. And that indicates 9- have yothad a chance to look at the tables -4 -A No. behind it? THE COURT: What is that exhihit?umberiiy CARR: 1233, ya?r Eg?df; sonar; 'Tha?k fan. I -Q (By Mt. Catt) Have you baa an appartunity :6 -look at that, plus the tables attached to it? A Yes) Now, that shows, 4663 it not, in the wip?'t?st?. 'ther??w?re tetra dioxins detected-1n the one exhibitgthe? congrel team, and Building 237 on the-Central Room Tgble,j}- and in other places according ta I'm Sorry now, Mr; cart, yb?'r? baak.at the tab1gsr 3X:fg3? Hum IL 218' . PENGAD BAYONNE. NJ. 07002? .1. 3107 .14 .15? 1,7161 ?18 15.3"? 2011 21. 22." . 13.1 l3- . .Yes; that'sgwhexe I Am._ VA.V Okay. You see herD C14 1n Department 236, found C14 tetra d1ox1ns.3_ Dr nanograms Df the tetra d1ox1ns. It says C14. . C14 Yen know 18 the tetras, do you not Dir? A I suppose that's what he Deans. A1 1 r1ght. And the nextVtaD1e shows for the ~4 in pentachloroyhenel and ?1:69? for the it Dhows 7. 3 nan?gzams. D7 I'm net familiar w1th these designatiens, Mr. Carx. I Dee the 7. 3, and something. 'WVOD-Bu11aing;237. the Control 300D Table.? :7Af I I I 131441175- 4 D93. 5 Or the u.g. "Ar- :Whatever, yes. I see the numbers. 3W6 5&9 Malloy Describes Dipe t?sts" that they?re higher than rep@:ted by OSHA. MR. MUSGRAVE: Mr. And 1n another one in 236, found 3. 2 micrOgramD 2.7.:49' IUNM IL PENGAD C0.. UAYUNNE. NJ. UIDDI 104 ,11, '12 13 14 .15 17" '13: .20 -Jill '22, 5423?: yzi?JEJ ?than thAt would be eorrect. repogts to Mt. Malloy in June of '79 that these Are' vhigher than r.epOrted by OSHA. Do You see that. 31:? at them is twiJe that; .175 nanograms or u.g.Fs is sign1f1~ y'of questioning._ It's all repetitive. Its been gone 1nto. 1?saw them.I object to 1t.?v ?wish to say to the objection? as'be1ng in the knewledge sf prior to going on to the next point. _Itul?d9_ .abbut'?etra Jiexin3ri.h various placea found in Your plant? Ql (By-Mr. 'I?m sorry, yqu're correct. ~Mrgi. v-A I see the statement there, yes. Yese you do remember that OSHA said there wag, -642 nAnograms anJ these tests are something like -- we11, One A cahtly higher than - 1t' 3 twice as high as 642 MR1 Your Honor, I objeet to this line '.Th1s witness is hot the anther cf any of these Jothm?nts that' have been 1ntchuceJ, no: 13 there any eviaence that he ever THE COURT: Mr. Carr,tdo you have anythIhg you CARR1- Yes; I wish to establish this point_ THE COURT: .?YouAmaY-V P19091363.- .lobjec?tion 180133;?- (By Mt. Do you see. sit. that it is tglking .1. If we take the C14 he tafet to the tetra Jicxins,?w 561 row 9 '24-9 . 399mm: Huang, 99199; .13? _j4 fisl 31? ,18, 3-209 ?21, '23 Yes. Would_you mark this as Pl?ihtiff's 154's? was 9arked fat identification by- the court reporter.) 9 1' 9 (By Rx. Carr) Rand1ng you new P191nt1ff' Jana 9nawe 9 sheet prepared by Sarah Coll1n9, and you teceivedi[1. *a-copy Of 1t d9ted November 15,-1983. 1 A Yes. ?Do you see that, 9193' yes, I 60.. 99. caRa: 1 os?eg 1543 into evid?nc?; 19 19? a? plgase Rhe court. MR. I abject to it, your Honor, as "9 being irrelevant and immatexial. 999 remote 1a 9199 to have 91? any probat1ve value. That ought to cave: 1t, TRR CG5RT Okaye It's adm1?ted over objection?vf? MR. 9999: 60916.1 have 15434Azplease. (P191ntiff's'Exxhbit was marked for identification by the court reportet.3. (By MI. 6999) M9. Park. da9y99're??gn1xe 1543?994?9si9 l?Rxhibit 1543, and 98k You 1f you recognize that as a questionei?vrr NJ. 1mm it. an PING-A0 10' '12 V. 13' I4 ?~16'11' i7 ,15 il? ?IzoI 2&3 gne page number?d?z at the eop on Exhibit 1543? "?onEext. have you read enough of it to recognize that it was IEprepared becaus? of the certain soil samp11ng that had taken 7' placo at the Krummr1ch P1ant2 'Eh1s quezE1on and Enswe: pt?pared by Mrs. Collins, did you not2 7 when representatives of Monsanto meet wiEh the press, aren?t 1.2 they. s1r2 JuaE Ias wo saw aar11or, NeunzeiEer Ire'ferred Eo a ~guest1on and answer. a prepared queot1on and answer when Ea1k7 ?1ng about OSHA13 f1nd1ags. That?s What the queSEion and Cianswer 15 for. 1su'E 1E, 81:. to used by Monsanto repre?_ ?sentatives to present Monsanto o?f1c1a1 pos1tion taken with the public: isn't EhaE correct, 31:2 YES, I do; - g1 MR. c1231 I offer 1543-A, your Honor. I objection. Same ru11n9.I I 0.1 (By Mr. Carr) Mt. Park, putt1ng 1543 in a A 7 Ma. Collins indicates that it was prepared f0: '11n connection wiEh tho Kzummrich Plant 3011 samp11ng program.x '2 You and a number of others race1ved cop1es of A2 Yes; She'was 3?9& 1ng r?view and comments on 1t5_7' 1Q Now. the question and anSWera are Eo be used 3'711would not state 1t quite that Way.- 52?- - . (VIM. . n.4, fo?iooz?f .101 ,_nV 12_ 13_ 1 14V .115 11611ith? 231.1 V1 press 1nquizies. 1' so that all of Heneante' persens that meet?with the pub11e Vattent1on to the tap of page 2, the page numbered 2. .talks about the result of soil samples that were taken in the Krummr1ch. Sanget. Illinois Plant, and 1t giVes the 11 ~parts per 5111163.V SO-What th1s is show1ng1here. you have Well, state 1: the way you would state it. 311.7 A I would say this is 1n?ormat10n whieh theV Public 7?317 Qt well, that's fa it eneugh. Isn't the 1n?oxmat1on and be able to resyond 1n the same and consistentng fash1on?' A I th1nk the purpose is so that whoeVer 13 1 contacted by the press Will be in a poeit1en to prevideF accurate in?ermation to the press. .9 New. ameng other th1ngs. it discusses the in the 8011 samples a: point.-~ and I'm new d1rect1ng yeur_ Vnumerical results as ranging ?rom .5 to .10 parts per billioanV in two samples._ New and 1n ane area: theV sample was 2.4 from 500 - ?30m 100 parts per trillion to 500 parts per sagpze. :sn' that so? That isn't the way she statue 1t, but -- V--Relat1?n8 DePartment tries to gather in area: to "will be saying the same things, have the full knowledge, ?u11 15f?f? 'tzillion in two samples, and 2.4 parts per b11110n 1n anq?herff_1VV anvoNNI. N.J.. 01002 FORM. IL. 215 .114; . 11515 117-?: 1.181 ?tf?d' '312? 1 she sa1d the numbers range item .5, that's 500 gparts peI Itillion. 1sn?I 1t, 31:? 5 A Yes1511109 paIts peI trillion, isn't 1t, ,Ies,. IQ iAnd7ha4-w? 1a 2 4 parts peI tr11110n. 1sn' I that correct. sit? A?q" 9nI95 one Ian $323 that Ionvers1on. fQ?il They suggest there that 1I's a couple of inches 'below the surface, and you?re going to pave the area that .-has this d1ox1n 1n 1E ranging ?Iam 100 parts 93: trillion A to 2. 4 parts p?I billion, that you II going to pave thaI parking and that V111 eliminate any aaposuze.. Do yea see that, 31:2.1 Ihat's what she states.,.' faIIheI on dawn I want to direct your atten~ A -1 tion Ia Ihe Quest1on Number 19 wheIe 1t says "Had you Itested??oI,T?Dnvbe?oIe new; 1_Do yqu.see,that,s 31know that Monsanto had tested foI I befare 19835 don't we, 31:? Af; You Ie referring back to A "grha June of 1791~a 1 Yaeg? mun no BAVONNE. NJ. .1 135V*7i? 1161.1 Vgig" 24 "if ifigjhad found Tepb. Aildocument, 1An' 1t, 31:? f1.1sn?t 1t, 31:? they did find whatevez 1: is. a quantity of c14. 1:1by taking w1pA sAmp1eA And ?Aund 1t no: he be present.. In 1' {and furnituxe 1n the chlorophenol units And their control Isn't thAh what you say. Mr. PArk2- Janswer 1A number 10? V4. ?1nding, wh?re you hAd tested And wher? you .LAV Mt . CArz- 0 I mAAn we knAw that, Aon't we, 31:71?1 1115 I-VNO. A11 wa have 18 th1s dacum?nt here. VQQ1V 135. And that. JunA 12th document 13 A HonsantoAS Yes. But An.e -- 0 And 1: 1s discussing testing Gene by Monsanto, That'A correct. - Q_f And it did find Tabb, didn it, 81:? 1A The decument 1nd1aates thAt thAze was thAt 9 w11cn 1A Tcpn. isn?t air? - That numbers written on thiA dacumen? HV.QV 1 Yea tell. the publi? he: ?We baa tested to: TCBD v2 AV Act what you A 1; expressed in VV1Q. D1dn' I :eAd 1t exActly as 11 wA'sC sAid 1A the V>u11511jV19tak1ng the w1pe samples, we tested the surface at equipment AVV 755 FORM II. PENGAD BAYONNE. NJ. 07002 110 12? I3 14 . 715- '16 .,17 18 19 20?6" 61*{1 A *7 You 6166?6 read 666 whole answerr'l th??g?t? I Mr. Carr. IaYb6 I was IOQking over it. 9. Lat 66 ?666 16 again. Ihe answe: to the 66666166 1-?666 y66 tested ICED b65616 6667' was, ?We had 666666 I6: ICDB by tak1ng wipe 6669166 and f6und 16 no: to 66? 6:6666t. In Iak1nq th6_wipe-samples, 66 666666 the 6611666 [of eqn1yment and furniture.in the 6h16tophenol 66166 and; '1 their Conttol 66666.? 13616.6hat'what it 8398: 31:? 6' Ihat.16 66?t6et? 1.6 .And we_kn6w 16 the control areas you Iognd 11.66.666 6ontxoi ?666 know we, sir? 7" A Mr. Catt, I don't ?666 that. Ihe 66666666 shows that.doesn?t it. 61:? A Inghat 366 have there tak661fr6m a 66616 Why 666'6 yea 66666: the 6666616n yeutseif, by "166k1hg at the 66616 that?s attached to it. A I 1' 6.6ry1ng 66 find it. . I66 control room table. 66 you see that. six? 11Ih6 66:66 Central 6666 Table. 237 6nd th6 .175 and 666 A I 3'93; I 893 it; 666 y66 666 that this says C6nt?61 ?66m Iabl6. y66 666 66666 it says Control R666 Iab167 .266. and .1175 66 666'66666615 Raomgfloog. [no'yo?'se? ?1?55 BAYONNELN.J., 07002 FORM A . "3 223v? ii .. .13?j '1?161' $120; 2] 21p9231 ANI, 'ge?o IQ And that document shows that You 193116 in Jana found TCDD en the Control R@@m tabIQ, daesn' 11, 51:? I A It appears to 1nd1aate that. I 7- Yes.1 And what you told the pub11c 1n 1983 waan '1 the truth, was 11, 31:? I, I A There' a no in?ication that we 101C the public I in 1983. Mr. cart. I . I A Isn? that what you used to respond ta the publie'II I re??e?ta? I . 1 No? neces?ar11y.' This 13 ;th is out t9 geople to get their comments. A 8Q 1. Well. did yea ecument. ?Hey, that? a mat eerrect.17 ?Ion shauldn?t say that.'? a. I can' recall whethe: I commented a: notL Let.me suggest t0 you that this is the only "Qqueation and answer press release Coeument that was given gfto us relating :9 this area, unless yen haVe same that Yau 8.1know eI. unless you know that 11 was changed. and that thia-? His net the one that was used. A Then I111 staua correcteC '.yau know there was same Athero- A Th1: 1 8 not.semeth1ng that I am :espensible 1.1 I?m just net that familiar with it. 24 5 I MI. Park, I suggest that yen 69 have a respensih1??ifs7 NE. ILJ. _s)7vu.- .10.. dArun MAB 10-? an 12 .13 14. '167 17. 18 19 ,?20 *1 *2iA ?-1-24555_ -, wasn't true, was it. 31:? laddressed. den' 1 you. 31:? do, yes. *we establish tAAt already, 81:? 1113; are one of the tecipients o? 1t, are you not? A . I am named as ane of those to whom 1t was 71' I. You have an obligation, an? ma1loy has en the ?ne that geceived th1svmempg Bkh1b11'1233? wasn?t he,-siri A That'a correct. 1 It?s to h1m A YQEO E?ch' Of yea; 51111113.,Ma110y, Silhous?h, . Papageoxge. Shaneberger, each of you hav? a respons1b111ty net just to the plAnt. but he the pub11c, aon?t you, 31:? A 1 don?t undegstan?-yeur qugation, an. Carr. havethe_respon?1bility teVmAke Aura that.the infazmation that yon.91Ve out is-the t??th and not a lie, A, Certa1nly 11 we ave contact with the public, we And this is the yutpose fer this'questionzand:i answer pregazation was ta 1611 this to the pub11c. . 2'33: 1" -. ms 11? this 13 what was. 10.11 to the: public; 11 obligation. And Malioy was the.man at th?_plant. ?a1loy 1S. '1 58. IL 2? 8' PENGAD orooz 10 ?11m l2 '13 I 71,114, 51 1:16 cf ?17; 18 l-223:V 1?391 ?i-Mhere, 15M 11. 51:? Isn?t that Mhe MzuMh? ._1s aveztuled. Aldon?t_knowger; Carr. ~2.0qu assum1ng this-prior thing was Correct.v saying.?- -Juat,a_MMmentg year Honor. _Qf' "(By Ms. Carr) Mat-1:19, 13 11. six? MR. MUSGRAVEM May he finish M13 answet. 9. (By Mr. Carr) If Mh1s 13 what was used and wMaM '7 was M616 to the pub11c, 1 1"3 not corxect. 13 1M, Mir? not true, 13 1t, sir? . I don?t Mh1Mk your statement 13 ?9::ect. neces~ sarily. Mr. 61:1. I Mr. Park, if 1M war 3 Mel? Mhe public, they were werenfM Mh?y; 51:? MUSGRAVE: It?s bgen asked and' 1?answered. TEE Gvezruled. - QM ,1 (BY MI. Matt) Assuming Mhey were M016: 31!- -H.A.. 1 I dMn?M.know that.1s the ?3881 38 you are 55a EMMasing Mr. Carr; Iwwoald have MM anMwer.MM, I deM';Mvv th1nM 1M would be an untruth. Well. Mr. Park, the MruMh is that you fauna TCDD Lt was net responsive. The objection_ 59 ouHM 4? PENGAD 60.. NJ. wou_4__ 10 ll 312 13 14 15 :15- 18' 191?. .20 122 344-234 piece-?: paper. Mt; Carr. iher 31:2. what h1 respansibilities were with regard ta testing. A I danft knaW'that that is the truth. Q44 a Mr. Rank, we jdsh'est?bliShedx?hat that was a C14. C14 atanas for tetra. yam knaw that. don' _t you? A11 yeu'va estab113hea 18 that's wr1tten on that What's all we've_establishad? A Yes. And that piece of paper is tests done by Monsant011 isn't it, 311, and we established that, didg't we. 51:? A. By whomever; yes. I den?t know that'it says 95 as it-say an hexethoper?ermed the teats?r I ean remember that thare,was much ?an?uaian over wipe sample testing. I . ?I?1earned Eton Brian War? ~v yen-knew who Btian Wax? 11, aan?t you. six? I YHA I remember Brian Ward. . 19 He toek_the th?mthzaugr analysis. 101 knaw Brian?Waxa'is man Was doing the tea?inga .He wag head 91 that department at that timet-wasn?t .- A I dan?t reaall what his ?931tio? was exactly. Den?t geeall exaatly. but tell me what it was;, A I donr?t remember his reayansibilities, but he Aid} have ta do - he was in anE deyartment GE Meaigine and - 2?69 PENGAO BAYONNE. NJ. 01002 _rorm 243? 10:! '11, ~12 13. 114_ E116 1' 171 i85 20 Hea1th. .ui deser1hes EhaE he took Ehe wipe EaEplEs and followed them 41Eht0ugh. 89 you 616 have the 1nfarmat1on, you d1d do Ehe I 1?At?5t1n?i 1sn'E EhaE coEEecE, '_Yau had .175 m1chgxams per aquara meter. "1n yen: hand. here; I same, Ehe conEEal Eable 1a the EhaE right? -. He had Ee do w1Eh analysis. didn't he. 31:? And i Yes. . ?a And EhaEa1n?6rEatien w?s bf EA That?s what you have on our plaque Eh?Ee.r? Thatts what you had on the exhibit thaE_you?ha1a? . A I don' see EhaE last part.I .91 Mr. Park: we jusE went Ehzcugh -A. den see the mieragrams per squats meter on I A . ,Yes.. 31:? _f fA tea; ThaE'a d1?ferenE onm Eh13.' 13-diffeEenE ?romEhaE; TEE figures 3 EE Eh? A A- WhaE as you mean control table, ME. Carr? Mr. Park; why age you 60139 Eh132Epva.I_ '9 -They had adaea E0 EhaEEhe nu: 161;. PUNM H. 1?0? PENGAD CO.. BAVONNL. NJ. 01001 :1011 n13 12 13 )4 615 ?l6 ., 17, 18' 1'20 21? 211' A van, gh?'h?a?ing; I'm $6rny.' 'TheTC?htr?l BhomTTanle;.f' 1,1 xesy I And the information is shown there 13 that hheze was TCDD 1n the w1pe samples. 1sn?t 1t, 81 - That?s what the aaeument 1ndicates. And. tharefore. the guess quest1en and answer .statement 13 wrong. 1sn? 1 1t, 31:? Not necessarily. Th1 eou1d be wrong. Mx . Carr. Do-yOu have any 1nd1?3t16na?hAE'1t'a wrong. A . I can recall that there was much confus1on over the taking and analysis Of wipe samples. This was one reaSOn 1 .why 083A decided ta Atop its allegations a: violations. Is that right. My. Park? 1 A As I recall. r-Q- Naw, perhaps it?s because GSHA wasn?t told the A truth by Mansanto. A 11 waa beeAuse OSHA dec1ded to have n6 case that it could bring aga1nst And Acmebody Eton OSHA. I take 1t, wrote yen a 1=1 letter :6 that effect? N69, OSHA went inta the administrat1ve c6uzt And decided ta withdraw 1&1 allegations. .-1 Is there same dacumant they 5316 they withdrew? .24 ?New co.. anonmp. 07002 10_11 1A. 71A doesn?t say Ahey-with?tew it. He dismissed_1t .111 wasn?t prosecuted . Xeu'know that; d?pends a great deal on 1Afarmation that they get from abbut what OSEA, an uAnameA in?ividual at OSHA, At all I proper queAt1on to be asked of this witness. you partiaipated 1A a whereby OSHA sent you 1A AhAt ?Vg answering these questions. know, And the resyonses AA YA No, there? 5 a ruling by the judge that I AA. A11 1A 1s AhaA Ahey AA prosecutm A I I thiAk I recellect that Ahey we: a withdrawn.11 "W?ll; do you hav? any ?oAumenA that 1na1cates thanhead. a matter of Eact, what 053A Would do A: not AA, respandent. in this case . MR. MUSGRAVE: Object1on, speculat1on, conjecture; individaalg at GSAAI It?s svague ana indefinite in that Aes?egt;" It also calls Apeeulati?n.and conjecture. ATHE c0039: Th? abjectian-is a?ezruled. .1159 a THE WITNESS: I wanId say AA. aQ (By Mr. ca rt) Mr. Park, you are aware 63, and VexY Aase that yAu 'rg talking about a long 113: cf requests- fAr informatlon, for responses to lang IisAs Af questions, an? you part1e1patea, yAu yeuraelf parA1c1AaAed directly in '1 "63 FORM ll. I?ll" 01001 rwaan? amount. A 'lloWWT W1118_: '719" 5? 4.2 those admission Wf fact.- You recall Whatg.WWu1WW - yau. Mr. 9atk? I chall the admission, yes. And 11 was after you responded WW those questionsfi 'that the was proseeuted by 1sn't that I '3cprreet, . . i A, WW11, it szetimW later.. That was fairly 5 early on. Th1s was the ?138: step in - It was-aftet.that, wasn it, 31:? Much afteza? . I ma. CARR: -would_yoW Exhibit, please. (PlWinWi??fa Exhibits.1544 anatsas?w?x?.markaaf ?Wr_1dentif1cati?n by the WWutt . ?9 (By Mr..Cazr) HE. Park, I?ll hand marked Plaintiff's Exhibit 1544 and ask yen if yWu I that th1b1W as QSHA's Admissions. 'r'addxeased and Plaintiff's 2111111 1545 7 Mpnsantots'resg?nse WW that Request fer Admissions. If I A .V .Yesj- I GARE: offer these exhibit? into if 11 I 54 - PENGAD C0.. BAVONNE. NJ. 07002 IL 248 _10 12 _13' 14 ?15 I-ls?Igv. 17 '181' ?19 _'201 .21; 1221.} l_afnaE a memo 0E January 5 . 1981 :e?erzing E0 H193 samples. gE 24?5? I . irrelevant and 1mmaEe31a1, your Honor. .1t deals.w1th another . ngoceed1ng.haudled by Izaak Ieliagtin1,janoth?z 1&wy?t. .Th139,9_ Ea any?issue 1n the 1awsu1t.__ that I ve giVan You earlier are app1y1n9 dur1ng this break ?been mazkad Plaintiff?s Exh1b1t 154 6, and ask you 1: thaE 1s The same obzactions. 'Th1slis_?ll THE counis the ?bjectio? 13 o?ettuled. they?re xb?th ad?itted'ai?r'dbj?ction. Mr; 613:; befcre you go in?d- this. is th1s 9006 p?1nt to break for lunch? - I ?es, you: Hanar.; . .IHE ?o?ai: Inadiea and gentlemeh. we w111 bteak for lunch at this time., I weuld rem1nd you the admonishmant? also, We?ll resume again at 1390.. ccurE.1s?1n racess. (LEnEhxraeesa.) . THE. 3013-1111 1511'. can . -9. Exhibit 1546Awa37maxkea ident1ficatian.by the-?Eurt raportez.)l ?999 (By Mg. Caz!) ME. Path. I hand you what's nan Caula yen answer the qaestion? . I 119:1165?1 renew 07002? FORM IL 245 1.10- ?11" 12' ,13- '114 15 1161 .17, 18f- 20' ?a22" .21? I?E-Eorxya 'ITd1dn'E k?ow-you werE addressing me. Mr. Carr;, I didn't hear the question.. The exhibiE EhaE I handed you, r. Park -- -A Ye?o . 1 P1a1nt1ff?s Exhibit 1546 18 a memo dated Janaury 5, 1981, ref?rring to dioxin w1pe samples, is 1E naE,'A *I.siz? -A Ye.s? It's address?d to Wara aha Bohl 1n St. Louis, and to I.Reat 1ng 1h 5E. Louis as wail, 13 it not. 31:? i A I Well, it?s addrEssed E0 ward and Bohl. It shows to Keating and some others. oife: this exhibiE inta evidence, 1f" 1E pIEEse Ehe court._ MR. You.r Boner, I objeeE to this. It ?ea 13 with a different plant, West 1has noth1ng Ea $0 with th1s lawsuit, much less the Krummr1eh '.PlanE.E And Even if it did, again we would ohjEcE on the I.baE1s that it's 1rxe1evant ana immaEErial to any issu? in this lawauit. have no pxabaE1VE value. couame' It's.admitted ovegTEbjectign; 1Q, (By Mr. Carr) And, Mr. Park, you See the very sentence cf that. contrary to what Mr. Musgrave saia, refers to wipe samples taken in the Krummxich Plant, doesn?E_1 65 wan ?11' 2 - - "new co.. 'mvonnzf NJ. 07601. 73 . I - . 1165' "fjifnh C14, 16 ?jAAf 318'155.35 ji?f'* 'Ji?def ?.ij 15; than. The document speaks EA: itaelf. fig;5qu?stion wa? ?irAAted_t? th? first Sentancev It was no? an [*Tf improper question._j1 ITWEIG with xegard tA h1A sayxng contrary to whAt I sa1d abaut 'Vf'this dealing with Wes? first sentence deals with Krummzich. 'AV-Ktummrich Plant. 7 same Ward that thtA the memo that we've 5935 6631153 WithAis' .155 an 553 wipe samples? IE we can f1n3 it again. MR. MUSGRAVE: object AA Aounsel's comment, yAu: TEE CGURT: ObjeAt1on 1s overruled. MR. MUSGRAVE: I your Honor, My comments CARR: Yen $313 th.1s 31An?t have anything '1t9 3A with Krummrich 18 exactly what y0u sa id, Counse1,_ The 151. (Ey Mr. Carr) BAAsn?t it; Mr. Park? THE COURT: The abjectian 1A overruled. '1 THE The fitst sentence Aces ment1on the; (By Mr. Carr) You?feboghize? G.Ward AA the:- MR. Plaintiff?g 1233. Mr. Carr? I'm not sure, CAunsel. CARR: 'w111;ybu pA?s that Axhibit to the juryj?U' {Monor, because hA thA entire document, obviouslyl;?f' I PENGAD BAVONNE. N.J. 07001 run? IL ?a 10.1 111 14 .1 131 '116, 1 '1 17 ,183 19 V2.51. 31-322; 12333 .MR, It 333 333 written by ward. MR. CARR: .Yes. W321 I143 referred to 13 Exhibit THE WITNESS: I would 333333 that 11 13. '(By Mr. Carr) And does 3- and it 3333 33y, 6033 . 1t was aet3333d 13 w1pe 3339133 taken 13 the chlor0phenal unit at the W.G. Krummrich 1331 13 Eabzuary, 3'.1979.? i Doe?n' 13 say that? A 133, that's the first sentence. 7 And that 13 an affirmation a: an agreement w1ah ?the'exhibit that we previously 333 been discussing, that.13 f3131ntiez's Exhibit 1233. is it 391, 31;? Well; it's 3313333 by 3333333 13 Australia. 93333 33' 3 just maybe repeating what h?'g heaxdu I wander 11 yea couldn?t answer my question, M3.-3 1 9331.. A . Well, I would say 33, 11 appears to b3 repaat133_ 1'som3thing ha' 3 heard. -Q 3333 it 333 say that 13 was det?eted 13 the 7 331333933331 unit at'the731G, Krummrieh.Plaht 1n February-3f ';?792 A .. . 333 13313 that the pLAnt that 33133-3333_3311139-? - ant? 68* 3' . A 35:11 . 5? . 5 . FORM H- . ?Nina co.. ?quch. .NJ, 07002 1.103 .1 I I . 1.1141 1'15 'EQ?sf 17 I>Iis .19- Yes. And isn't it wipe samples that were from the l.K?Qth1ch Piant that we?re talking aont? 31' Yes. we erQ._ I And isn't ~~gdeesn't this exhibit thefother Exh1b1t 1233, Qhow that dioxin was 1n the wipe Isamples taken from the Krummrich P1ant? . I .Woul&_you mark this as an.exh1b1t. (Plaihtiff?s BxhibIt 1547 was Masked for identification by the court reporter.)_ - (3y Mr. Ca.rt) I hana an'what1Q marke? Plaintiff's Exh1b1t Number 1547, and it's the iny I have. 3Q 1Qt me show 1t tQ CQunsel ?1er. me ask you 12 recogn1ze that as a Monsanto document dea11ng with 83116- ings 236 and 237, and describing the same sampiings that we previQusly discussed a3 attached tQ Exhibit 1233_. iny :1233 is handw11tten and the accument you have an, 1547, has the results typed. A If you' re asking me if it is, Mr. Carr,I have 1.t0 take Q1QQ tQ them. I haven't this be?ore. That?s what I want yQu tQ dQ. 6-9 PENGAD HAIOHNL. '?16 1* =3s?4qie> mg.- ,7 number here? '10 11? '121 1:13 141. 15' 17 . 18 715 T20 2;7" ?the sameruildings and the same areas from the same buildings. Mr; Park. ?daes it not, sit?. -and this is not. . . Just confirm for me; if you w0u1d, that theY'ze talking aheut . . .We11, we' te comparing Tab1e 1 of the document you?:" have just handed me last, 1547, and i Q: F1rst of all, conf1zm that they' re ta1k1ng about ?3 Is there a_ page-to th1s document --. '19 You have the document as it was g1ven to me, Mr. Park: A'h? ?It doesn't say ?hieh location . 10-. Mr, park, 1t-does say. It says Building 235: BIOwer Motor a Viv I - 1Ye3.;5 And it Say$.Bu1lding 236, Blower'Motor Housing, "Yes, 'But'this is attached to'a Monsanto memo,' 'That 13 also a Monsanto memo. It was given to_ 'me you see the ?Confidential".stamp, you see the C.O. numb: A It's a Monsanto document, it was given to me. the same buildings, the same places. 'Thete'e_the same date. I see the same date . I see the same building-1 [mm In. an MINGAD co.. amount. 0100"6263-66 616724* I Ycu see the same part of th6 bu11d1ng, Blower Hanging, and wallg, 6066661 tables. and th1ngs of that ?16666 that they' :6 taking the wipe samples. A Mr. Carr, th1s most recent d66ument says, ?Blower M6666 6663166 0666166 Walla,? th1s says ?B1ow6r Motor Hous1ng Top Cover.I? Y6u' re aaking me to distinguish 666666666 I?m I 666 ?66111 6: But they appear 66 he di?ferent thmeY.? IQ, W611,w whether thgy areldiffezent at 666. y6u 6.:66696136 66686 66 buildings examined on 6/6/79, abn't you, 61xY IAI I see these numbers here. MR. MUSGRAVE: Where does 16 say they w6re examinea 66 6/6/79, Mr. Carr? MR.ICARR: The 6666 at the 66p 05 666 pag6, '1 6/6/73; MR. Is th? wora ?examined? there? MR. CARR: Mo, Counsel., the word isn't there. It says, "Wipe samyle 1A - Building 236, 6/6/79, 1315 hours, M666: Housing Outside Wall, 313 by 616 area of wipe. .9 (By Mr. Carr) Now it 6136 6636r1b66 an the Exhib16 1233, 6666 it not, 51:, Buiiding 236, 6/6/79, 81666: 1666: Honsing six by six area wipe?Y You_ 866 tha t, Sif? A I But it says ?Tb? saver.? an? 666 6663166 wa116.I Well, there 5 a 116616 more informat16n 66 666 6g;?Y71 H. (CI) PENGAD C0.. NJ. wow 231. 10 1?11? 12' l3 14 is "16? 18 ?16- *2o_ ,?21 .3 66616 16 I06. the oth 6r. There' 6 612161666 16161666166. IT 16 1s 6 611661666 6666, 6666'6 1166 with 66., I 666?6 quarrel with that.' wag-6., 16's 166 with 66 66666 666 6616 findings. _-66 366 666, 611, A A: 1Q 5"Aq. 5?33: 7?96 and 8?33? I 666 that. And w1p6 666661 Yes? But 11 yqu 6111 look 66 the 16616 that 16 16 6616, 6666666 16 SdeS 661 Haw if ypu 166k 66 the 166166 96966 6666 6663 have 6166 6666616 2?1, 3-A, 166 16 666 816661 M666: 3666169 ;-s6666166 6611s; 36116169,236, 16 16 not, 611? And they found there 2,166 66666.1666 of 616316 661 6166, 616 6663 666. 616? A . 1911661 16. 36116 l-i?C 2666 appears 66 66 wha6 16 says.- And 6166 566, Which 16 666 vetti?al 6666616 That?s 6611666. 666 in the 66A -- that was 219 ?61 566 166 236, 6666h6661 of the 1616666' 6 6??166, th6y 16666 16 260 666662666 61 616x16 p6: 6166 in 6h6 --:t6txa 4 661666: 616 thSY 666, Si?? 666 6h6 6-6 661666 16?s 206 666691666 661 6196. 6616h 16 the 66616 16 666 Cantxol R??mo .265. I 606.; 66 y66 666 that, 6112 72: PENGAD co"; ,o?zuoz n. 24.3 lio_ 4ii4 '132 4. .13 4P4 1'714 15? 4 .1. . 116_;4; 41184 '4.440, if 4444234444 many?a? 44444 quas4ians. 1 MR. MUSGREVE: Let my objection be a continuing 3: objection to 4his. 14' a 411 repetitive, yank Honor.' 14's Im-VbeenI sane 4hrough 4h1s manning. 3 been gone through w14h 44'_'44444 w14nesses.l Just all :epetitive. THE Continuing abject1on nated. '7 (By Mr. 634:) Ian 1n the next 1owar celumn. 43141;:wipe sampl? found 1709 nanegzams of 41?34? in ?4 an sample 193; Af I see that number. Now, Mr. Paxk. :e?erring now 44 the Exhibits 1544 ?and 1545. which I've prev1oasly 91444 you. and wh1eh haVe ibeen gaSSQd to the jury. if yen would pIease, 41:. I 3.41958, 9 Q: . 1544 134 a request 4hat.was snbmi443d 44 yea that *yau?4ook 40 various 944914 44 yea: 41434 and 904:1npu4 from Vtham as 49 how 40 answer thesa quest1oas, 616 yen not. 31:? I 3444 of 1.4, as I recall, 49 different .?peo?xe. Ana 4hey responded 40 you as to haw 4hey thought these various qaestiona shoals be answered, d1d 4hey 304,, 1814:? -. A: I 441nk I received responses from.sama. I'm . 7444;344e gram 411. There was some. I think, confusion Ifs;75f PENGIO CO.. BAYONNE. NJ. 0190! PUHM IL N: 121,: -13A 14?. C16 1 119 1291 '"233 3(24_21 AAen prepazed the 11511111191 that was 1? you. prepared these respenses from the information_ 7g by these various pecp1e1 Dr. Wilson aha ether that gave you informati.an1 yen prapa:ed these 'reapansea1 di? not1 sir? . A 7 N01 Ar. Carr. As I recA111 thaxe was fuxthet diaeusszan1 and than retAiAAd cannae11 eutAiAe counsei 1 1y pr?pgrea the submission ta 05HA1 the resAoAse. wA111 he prepared these resyanses based upon information given AA him by manganto employees1 61A he A931 I A Agll, as A result of 11111111918. A $3111 A5 a resu1A.A? He had.no. infarmatton AE his did he1 31:2 He wAuld have infer?ation concezning the MAnaantA Eaaility Exam Monsanto eAployeeso_ ,Yes. And baaed the infozmAt1AA that At. gavAfhim1 he prepared these reapahses to these? Raqnests ?Az Admissions1 61A he A9t1 31:? 5f. WA111 me pexsenally. ?Qj 331:? AA1 Not me pesseAAlly. A said he prepared. 23A 1Yas1 he prepaxe? them. V74 NJ. 07001 FUMM do. 21_1 22? I ?3?ll? uha1 wa'te 11y1ng here, the Keane: ease? Bi? Yon have-any- .~111ed, aid you not, 31:7 ?in 1113 case 1139 had askea Monsan1o 1n cour1 documents - I '1n,?aet 1111 we1e 11116 1a 111a 1136 by Mensan1e's lawyers, I ?11119 11 db w11h that, 31:? your help, and yen saw 11 befere 11 901 A: Yeas. New. ypu*re, 61 1111233, aware that 113 pla1nti??a'- recognize that 11939 teaponsea that you ?1196 were not zeapon1as 1o tequas1s ?113& in a eeuzt. It?s before the OSHA Rev1ew Comm1saion. Bu1 yen de know tha1 1n 1his ease, Mensante was 1159 askad 19 admit the 1?u1hs of certain facts. 7 161 know that, 61 did yea know 1ha1 that ?90k'1131U? 11 this 0336? This Reques1 ?11.Aam13319n3? 1 I?m new talking ?1931 Reqaests for Adm1ssion1 13311 1111 intermatioa given 111 Monsante 1awyers by Monsanto have anything 19 do w111 the 18113111101 of 11? answers 10 Requests fa: A?misa1en?a?'ra11 1131 was filed in 1113 ca se v391091a. 1_ .- 'The case 1111 we?xe 11 11111 with? 'what we re surrently 11 11131 on. *1 I 111 fam111a: with that, Mr. Carr. 1 _'291 had nothing 11 ea. 1 take 11. or did you, 311?: 75- .-PEN6AD co.. amount. NJ. 01001 roux .22, I is 2192 _2_22-26_26v6rtulad. I 6111 take 16 as a cont1nuing objeetion.2- 22 ;L*63_v' l'a?te these taqa6sts. New yen have responded f1rat of 611, I?it?? clear that they?ta talking abo?t the K=1mmrich Plant; 1.1:15611 that correct. 61:? citation, and that the inspection 6661 61666, and that you question 66666: 5 or 6, I'm sorry. 'Ccunsal 96166 thr6ugh thi? document 6166 b6 n6t6d a 9616 on ?Itha basis of relevancy and materiality, and 66 pt6bat1ve 36-. 289" 'All 61666; So let?s 6166686 than what y6u 616 have to do with, Mr. Park, namely these anEWara that Y6u gave I 1A Yes. And they ask you 66 66616 than OSHA 615 gpndu6t 2ar? '1nspaction between February 7 and February 23 A Yes. 02 And, of coura?, you admi that :66 ?116 a the 2 have certainTempi?yaeSI'and that you manu??ctarea,chloronated?91 phenols.at y6ar plant for more than 33 years. That wouldfbe,w YR. Y6ur Benet, may my objection t6 YRE-EGURE: The 6b366t16n 1s n6ted. and'it.161 MR. Thank yog. '2 - (By'Mr. also admit that orEhochloro ?~75 r'mm H: (a a PENEAD Gun .nnv'urms. rm. Elm? r110 1' :12 ,13115 1.15.,1: '5 :1 1-13? '18 '19 . E{Ei-j A Let?a?se?; Th13.1s Eunber what; 9 Number 7. air. A 1 268. We admiEEed 7-D. 1: HEW in ra?nest number 8 they askea you to admiE I,_naEed d1bean?p~d1exins. :e?erxed go as by- dib?nzofuzans as a Eda th?y ?at! 3:3? .1 A l?839 151:? .1 :3 ThaE's Mr. Park, yEu Easy, and eEhers aE MEnsanEE ?=EhaE d1Ex1n End _b$*en in you: chlorinated phenols. knew EhaE a number EE yearE. A - IE was a by?prEducE as we defined it. WEllg'whaE was 1E, a ptEduct? 1REE. IE wEuld be an undesir?a contaminant; if 1E6- WEE anything. 1 Well, al1 zighE., Isn' any undesired7ii 2 1?_wnen 1E1E manu?aetuxod 1a a prEEss. 1sn?E it a by-pxoduct? =v113 not Wh?t-ya? 1nEend.EE_pgeduee. 1 that af chlozinated phenEIE can produce "xou denied the EruEh of that, aid 3;:2 .- ?Enew 1n 1979. 1a Nevamber '79 when yeu?ilad these responses, 7 IUHM PLNUAU 6.0.. uAquNt. NJ. uluw: -10 ll- 712 13 914' 151 '15 177 18 26 .21 ?Zzlr 235 . a: unintentianally. 916 you pte?uce aiox1n 419 that vahat/they wer? ask1n9 yea that d10x1n 13 produced 1n the of chlorinated phenals? 9denied an that has1s. iy?uugould find acme little area there that you thought you .ceuld quazxei w1th., ana be technically caxxeat. 1n so do1n9 ?111999 31:? ?-aumba: 8; We ?enied number 8.- It?was not tata1ly eotr?et? 'And every other one in here that was not totally car: eat was at that giant? A. I No: as that term 13 used by many people, Mr. Carz. Mr. Park, is there any qu?Stion 1n you: mind that -A This type at a requast by a party in an adminiatt?g.. tiva hearing, 1t 15 customary if there 13 anything act totally} PI'cezzect about 1t :0 deny it. Thenetore. allow the party whe. 1 'pxeposes 1t to prove it when it comes to hearing. There?eregi "there is someth1n9 that is net correct about this, so 1t's Mt. what yau?re saying is what you did. it it. you 9aVe a denial insteaa 91 an affirmative response; aid?*t -.A as y?u I have t9 say n0.f We 919199.- 7_0 Wall n99, Mr. Park, 616 you praduee i1ox1n a: not Not intentianally. Weii, I dzan't.ask yea whethe: yea did it 1nt?n~7? . 78 I_ronM u. 'ua ?rsnaao an'ouua. nu. owoz 1' [10 .i4 1: 71?5; ?85171 '5"1si{, 1.1911 1311 11f13331I*l :1 ?811?; fanswexedi plant?uI I . . gAjQ Q1Qx1n was .nant result exta1Q processes. 9- And you perucad 1Q at thaQ p1Qne. d1dn'Q YQQ, . Af? NQQ as a by?prQQuQQ, as I define Qhe QQIQ. I My quest1Qn, Qne QQ a Q1me. 1s. 31:. Q16 1Q QQ the plant? I I I A: I intentiQnally.I '1 1 NY questian 13 did you sz?th 1Q at the plant. sense 1t was produced. 0 A A1 Q51 ~Was~1Q7a Qh?nz han an or a by-product. IQn've Qwo, Q12. 1 QQ. we Mg. Cart. ,9h, 15 1 an and szQucQ? It's QQntamiaanQ, an undesired contaminant., 1:3 ?Qj'ca -Q - IQ was th??gh; wasn't 'ij?ct. it's been asked'and he And.was it the endeQQ?Qct that seeking? .131 PENGAD BAYIONN-E. NJ. 07001 248 10 13 11 14 16'- 17 I 18 ?19 in.?O> ?11 -'22 2,311.1} .szir1*s"? V: he said in a sense, MK. 7 Certainly in a sense. That's 311 I'm Italking?about. In a sense 1: was aeKua1ly one hun?ted petaenti.' _?preduced 1n the Krummr1ch Plant. wasn'K 1K. 31:2 MB. MUSGRAVE: Object K0 the question, been asked and answ?xed. 00081: _It has bKen_answeKed 1n the affizma~; 1 Y??t THEIWITNESSK one-hundredipexcenu. ya? say. don?t know that I aan_agree K1th'KhaK. 9* . (By Mr. Carr) It was produced at the Kxummriah Plant. wasn?t 1K, Mr. Park2 objeeKK It's been asked and IKE 69 ahead ana -answeK THE WIKKESSK 1K.waa pK@Kuced 1n the sense 1K - of the manu?aKKnring process. an undes1rgd 9011 tmi?ant Q- - (By Mr. CaKr) rAnd 1K was1?KheKefore. a product '1 0f a manufaaturing P260933. was 1K noK. 31:2 HR. @ijKK.~ bean asked and I CTKEKGOURKK Kc, it has noK.I WITNESS: as yau' re using Khe Kern, Mr. 89 . mum IL an, PchAo'tou unvormzj. NJ. 0190: . Ing4, ,MIng?1f' '7,,j3-51 V5511 1.6. In any context. If 1t?3 produced. the and :eaultf?1__ ?1 Mt pxc?uaed.1s preduet. 13 1: nut. 31:? . 311' Mg. Carr '1;_91 Me; Mr; Mark; coMid59?;Mn?Metft??MST1f lM: SM- ],WItquea?ion, so we can pass on to?anethax ens-:51 I .. 1 -11 1 '39? My anMwet be no, Mr. cart. as we nnder?.iv iistand those texMM. I i _11. I 1 When you produee Momething, yen make Pre?uctsr 7110i?f1ffdon't yen, 31:? '"?hey the samM Mata, Mae is the eMd result and the other is the Mark? One 1M the noun. the result. 1 M56 verb of What? . :Ian pro?uee a verb, sir? i . . W111 proauceg yes, it would.be a verb. 2 v1M11 =L:sznit pxoduet derived the Math? Viln a context 1t Mania be..z" any eentext. ?0 3? a was . 3?0 f1391 19 I I Doesn't the word ?produce? and ?Izoduct?; aren't A 242. cazz. I. tuned ta- exvlain that. 35?? '114;;[71 - 1?an a jump {Acrou 90.1., :ozoo: 11,11111'1' 11111??11;111 *53324Ti? QC Product 18 a result at ijeet. It?s be?n asked and It.has.n?t..?overrulea; '71. 1THE Semantics, Mr. Carr. 1(33 M1.?Carr) In?eed, wg Are. That, Mr. Paxk. "5'11 Aka?tly the point; that You'cannat'?sdape fromrthe eanaldw? '11810n that dioxin was a because 11 wasn' the and ?ih?Apreduct. 1t wasn' 1 that you were wanting to produce. I 7 Cmunsgl?s 391111.. "af??ugagg??sg1?n;1 xu's counsel's Aginion; {i?canalu?i??$; Request it be stricken, the jury mastructed to 11* ?r1gdisxagazd it. T33 CCURT: The ebaection is evezruled. ,An?w?t' question, please, Mr. Park.w THE Ne. 130:. 7. 1&5 itMA At?du?t?,' by?prOduct? ebjeccion. COURT: Objection is overruled. (BY Mt- Carr) MGM yau? #3 gene ane step farther, Mae stay at A time, please._ Mhen'ygu.havg and QM. Mr; Carr) ;Ybu W?htedAMQ A . . . g8215 IL 249', I Anormz, N-J- ?q7oo_z 1107. -IA 15 A 1711} '18: A]g?oAf" A don' 1 'A7your Honor, that it wa in a AenSe produced. It is not A characterization A: the tastimany of Mr. PArk. I?kxnd of ptoduct, isn' it. 81:? 'yroeess, what 13 it than? song: has aonfirmed 1f 1t.was A product. . MR. MUSGRAVE: object. I THE COURT: Chgection is overruled. THE WITNESS: No, I didn confizm thAt. (By Mr. Carr) Mr. ParM . I wAnt YQA to assume,.spih- MR. MUSGRAVE: I abject further, the testimony. THE COURT: Objection is overruled.; AVQ {By Mr. Carr) Maw. 1I 1t was produced. it is somAQ_. A Me, it's net, Mr. Carr. What is it if if it?s a result of A graduaing [It is An contaminant. ?And that is a product, isn' six? .N?"1t is not.- ;AWhat.1s A pxoduct? A product is something we produce and market..jA A And market As a product.? net in the sense in which we n.39 the term. anduct is semething that YAA produce And market? -f g_cAn*t have praiucts tAAt yoA never market. sir? 83- 2? PENGAD anon?. NJ. 0190: 12.. 13M 1114' is? ioiM .;17h_ i9i" ?20 ?521;?1' _2?Mi227 'Mfinish? example, as a result of graduation What 13 a by-product, sir? MMR. MUSGRAVE: Ju3t a minute, Carr, Ma9 he -. MR. CARR: No; . Honor,?may the with??MMfinigth maven THE COURE: No. MR. my abjectiOn'aM to witness .MHM ennui; 1 said it-was.oventuled.; ,j MR. MUSGRAVE: I just want :a make gu;e;my ob3ectien was naked. T?ur ObjectTOR is ?ulzy'neue?s7 A (By Mr. Carr) What is a by-pzoduct. Mr. Park? A used Mef1nition is that it would Me a secondaxy produced proauct that is marketed.' By~products are marketed? Yes. MQIQ becauae yen dan't 5&1; a1Mxin as such. yen consid?r it a by~product? We ?shnet; Yeu.sell it: hew?ver? H. l. PENGID NJ. ulow 1 715, :7 . ,9 . Y'Zi]ij 19, That may be pxesent in the graduct _-9979hen9??gif? selling 19, don' you, sir? 16 yqu, sirYA [95th99pra??ct tha? ypu' :9 selling; it, sir? 55953_9Ywe?x9 marketing the product. '189919chlorlne. 19 has in it chlorinated phenols, 19 has 19 1t H?d1ox1n, doasn't 1t. 51:? jaren't you, sir? They re part 9f the pro?uct. 99 9 you're Yimazketlng it, aren't yea: sir? not intentionally. ., 9'5 I aidn't ask you intentionally. _oha, Y9u a9 inten99?l_5 it, You know 1t's 1n the product when you 2% selling ~5975? ?fAY?w?-Mr. Carr Q~91,YEXcuse me ,?Mta Park.. Ycu know it's in the product"9 I Y'Afif have to go ch9ck.1 Perhaps 15 tiny qgantities.19 Whatever.quant1ty. You it?s in the pzaduct 911_Net 99 a yroduct. in the product yOu' re selling.h IttS Part 9??j tiny ammunts.= And you axe marketing ?11311, aren? 31:? that product has in it phenol, it has in Yt It may have trace amounts of unwanted impurities. f; 95911 And 399 9:9 ?ailing thQSe unwante? 1myur191es, egg-"Ax PENQAD CO.. BAYONNE. NJ. 07092. FORM IL 2413; .-322 ., .- .?116 47? .13 5.'19 ?20 21. 12-3: yau 18 whether a: mat yea?va reacazchad a: antherized reseazc l' 1n the faxuatien of diexin, aad yea aam1t that you d1d 86, aoa?t.yoq. 31:2 studies grepara? by-er fat that 1 ?ioxin is a pbhential by*preduat in the manufaetuth 91 . 1mg 91 tan quest1an. yea, w: deny that; 1? anabar d1an?t_yauia nuabe: a; 133': that eexxact, 51:2 191m ?iaxin.xe?ers to 75 different comyounds, dependent ayan and yam daay tkartruth 91 that. aon't you. 3112 '9 . 'Tas. ??ow 11$ nea1-qaest1an that thqy'V? aske& A Y389 . . Then the next one they ask yam is whether or net 1' angina? 9116:1018, and yen deny that a139, 1033': you. 51212 A Because 91 a d1??e?enee 1n epin1en absut the msan~;11 Tau ?eny that in tha same sense that you ?enied a. mm, 111311211193 Tea daniedrig 19: the same :?asana yen-deniea That ana thata may well have been other reagent 1111.; The next quastiaa, number it. they ask you. fies. Why? .1ha lacazima 51 the chlaz1na atems with1n the 619313 molecular, 1901 unto-mi. 11.1. 12" I 9313: Isn' that exactly what they re saying here,ggzj~ 3.18 I - 'fqug,~ 1f9507""~ jvqnastion that?s at hMMd.> to what was asked. There MM ward commonly 1n theta: 9? peeple might generally '5-75g??1" 5 Mat what the question was that was asked. '91 ANMC TAM response states because diaxin refers to a - And 1: isn't referred to that there are MR. MUSGRAVE: ?Object tczungg;y?ag;g?a?g. ,2111152x,. NuMber 11? Yes; THE COURT: overruled. Number 11? '13y Mr. Carr) Isn't that what your lawyers and _?;fgyou you: scientists and you: and everybody else?:' . -M'?31yi 3333 531% thAt there ate 75 different azexin isomers? . MR. 0 bject. It?s intelevant._C THE WITNESS: Na, Mr. Carr. 13y Mt. CMzr) some peopie have said 72, ethers'f' broad class 9f compounds estimate 6 t9 exceed 16 000 in number. ;*5w75 Number 11~ may proceed. Mr. I'obj??t, it's itf?levah? tb;gh?27" MR. And the question speaks for FORM IL 24 PENGAD BAYONNE. N.J. 01902 155' denied that the term tetrachlorod1benzo-p-diax1n refers E9 1?512? j_'ffer Admissions. '7Hf23}}3'* ?710f 131-; _151 517. . cf; "Cf 7Q?egtioh.' It's relevant.. 'Patk25,g' .chlorine atoms in vary1ng locations, don' you, sir? Eh? question. Your Han?r.; The anSEion 13.1Es taking it of context. 'Vparaphxasing ef the questian. different locations. You deni Ed Ehat, didn you, sir? g?1?pff?? THE COURT: Objection is overruled. It a a pxapa?f.1Af 3 1 I 61d, Mr. Carr. The anSwer was no. ?dioxin refazs to 22 potential isemets, Each containing four '5 MUSGRAVE: Obgecticn. a misstatement fmuSE be read, your Honor, and he 13 not daing Ehat. ?Heigf?f~ A TEE c0031: ObjecEIEn is overrul?d. a (By Mr. Carr) Excuse me.? My queSEion is?yan5"v -22 potential isomers. each containing four chlorine atoms 1A I As you have stated, I have to say no, Mt..Carz. 1Q. did you a?m1E that, 31:? 131 ThaE questson was not an 01 these in the Request 31 19.1711 That question 15 not 1 You didn read the whole questianr cat??- And number 12. you deAy Ehat Eetrachlorodlbenzo-p-1 row It 41' a 01001 PENGAO CON IAVONNI. Nd. 11? '13 14 ilsi 'v16.ai ill7?: .-j8 '20 zleit V22 MR. one-yon just read, ?is_not what was asked, Mr. Carr. (By Mr. Carr)? What did 1 just ask you 7A Would you like me to read the entire question 12? Qif You tell me. A -You left out the paren statement Hereinafter referred to as TCDD,Zdidnit Yes. Did it change the meaning of the question.by" Ileaving that out, sir? A I think yOU_did?? How so, sir?? A, ?Because TCDD the term TCDD is need elsewhere_~ in_here in another manner, a Whieh'raises queStions as to what was intended by the.asker of theSe questions. . You don't understand that TCDD is_referring tO'? exactly as they.say there, tetra-,' r. ~Chlor0dibenzo?p?di0xin, hereinafter referred to as IA The next question he says it's a toXic compound. Let?s look-at.QueStiOnjnumber 12 first of 'Yes. We denied this because of confusion oVer-the.ri .fdefinition of TCDD by the asking party. niffjg,r;5 H, ?gQ. And where is the conquion over what is a tetra [859 mum-IL 14's .3 PENGAD. Co..v- ?you?. 0700;- "?5f3mmtiswam?? 3310i333: 11D1f?n,' . jiD13? 314f53377 313153;15 ,@2317333 3338CA3333d63333nt? ycu see, at leaSt -at time we aea1t with allows yen to 53y why this doesn?t fall within the ?xame4' Df the sz? comgound? Is the ID some word -- gran? Df entities, 9: what? 3?333333336- Yau' 33 denying that, aren't 31?? All.? 333D5357nd, den?t you. sir? ?anggambiguityl Dancerning use 9f this. term. a 3f: D13. the asker of these questions 1ntend that that Y?u aaD't see? 22399t?htialD33333 Jl? 33D ADD yoD also deny Dumber 13, that TCDD is a taxicii 3 Yes., Dxt?s not a eamyaund. What is it, 31:? A 33DDEA3 That's 3 question IQ is a compound A We are limited by the terms uSed in this- 3 3?7b@ 3; Well, does Ehis somehow or other define compaund 3'33? There 333393 inconsistencies and confusien,i'r Where. sir? term mean an isomer, a campcund; a BPeCifie entitY! 03 3 b3333qa?f'3 Deli; roam IL 14 BAVONNE. NJ. 07001 . 1?10} 1'144112 21115112- .1315; guth ;eig11fie 1:1??I1r3?denv it and then the first party W111 come back and aSk the _6f isomers 1h 12 then he' 3 talking about, apparently,, 3 12 Tzspecific compound in 13. ?this moment. When we answered it.- unfortunate. IT1AT I guess in 11i Where is the use of the word compound" confusing?gg1 and further on.? It appears to refer to a set '*VQfs hat is a compound, sir?: no 3ure I know in the -oontext of this at Did anybody tell you that TCDD was no a compound? As defined in thi document. In any document, anywhere.'a '1'_Aa_f No, no, we' re 1imited to this dOCument, M-r. Carr, 13 compound defined in this dooument? . - The word compound was not defined, whi?h was (A: '25311 A11 right. hThen you?used the Comm6n1jaccept??1_i= definition of compound, wouldn't you,: Mr. Park? 1 liA? fI 1No, we wouldn because 1 1 ?1311' Well, what wouid you. IIu?e then, 51:71 ,331? The common practice throughout the _trade is to Irh?gaiking about the woragcompouh531311; 'rz?cao cvo.. BAYONNE. N.J. 'o1ooz foam IL 213? 112 '1j3." 141 1151? "16] '3 17 I. 188' was not a cempound, and if so, told you that? 7~ 8818 these 888 8 number 8: 808988888 that 88818 ?811 37' Itime, what 18 the meaning of the word comp8888. . A . .Q IA- ?attagney., 88880888 mean ta You? .A that tetrachlorodibenzo~p~d188181 18 a comg?u88? A I'm trying t0.say,r . What Is the meaning of the word compound? Excuse me, I'm asking you the question at this, I?m not Sure what 18*would mean. They told 388 They were confused by it. Did they 8811 you that tetrachloredibanzo~p~ I think, perhays, th?y did. think they may The party that ESRB the question, Mt. Catt It wasn't clear t8 us what he meant.W What 8888 it m88n to You, 81:? The Question was What did It 8888 to the OSHA My question to yen}.Mr. Park, what does the word I?m asking you, Park, what it means to you. I ??n?t:knew, Mt. Carr.' Then if you d88't know, Mr; 988k; haw can y?u deny Because thbSe-ta8hnica lperSOns who were giving_1 :88'8dv188'8n this raised 8 question Co?cerni8g what 19_ .. . .. - . V- .7 -8;928" .yu?nm?u. _2?u venom BAYONNE. 02002 I fyg7?iirtake it to m?an- a substance at Chamlcal. . 4 ?maps - vdIisI} denied that? ?Izd3 _xffI/"F {servant about it., .2 55f not toxic. . I 1gg;= Well, relatively is a modlfying word. We're not f1&7. "",werzying about the meaning Of the ward compound now. we ward compound wou1d encompass a tetrachlerodibenzo-p?I 'Vijdiexin because it 1s .a compound, it' 5 made Of more than ane I;9substance? I sn't that correct. 31:? I don' th ink 50, Mr. Carr. I 3":5 In another context, not this document. I would e11, diaxin is a chemical, isn 't it, 31:? it?s a_c0m90und; isnft ?I?ji IiNo,l net 3 comgound. g9 . "Well, it' not a compound, and that's the teasan 3Aff?f Yes. Because there was something that was n?t What abaut the word toXic, do You GOhSlder that taxic? Is that the reason ygu denied it? ?"7f'131 '1 That could have been a reason right there. :2 .23 Diox?i?n' is a "lat-<39 Rumba? 10f jwawithin that TCDB term. an? that some 0? these are relatively fgfI7*?T Vf+yassed from that.I Because you do know, ana You a0 agree that';nI 1'19?. Well, what is a compound. if that's not the . . beeb?'_ Yes.27 '215971 . Because relatxvely it's act as toxIG as a11 TCDD - {deifferent TCDD isomers, one is more toXic than the other? Yes. But they' re all toxlc, aren't they. 31:? why do yDu deny that 1t'8tox1c? 11? you asking that Ds a questlon, Mt. Carr? .10?Cn?7 - . A Yes, indeed. waiting EDdon't know that; they axe, 513171? f? g] (By Mt. Carr) 'Xou don' know that. A11 right. 14' I . That's the reason yen denied because ycu have me knowledgj _4 that point; is that correct, sir? ro?nM? IL :43 I gaj, ?79 Well, why 61d you deny it? ., .1gAjl, Because one or more about it that were net correct, So it was denied. co.. amount. rm. '01061: .j7211?1I; . themost taxic diaxin compound? Recognized by wh?m, Mt. Carr? 7\ sir.- RR 13?242f.fl i 1" wh_. 1? Same are relatively non-toxlc as I understand. I7-f'l? MR. Just Ia moment. ?Juat a m?m??tl; A: And you denied a1so that it's generally xecegnize&_11' foam? IL up '1 PENGAD BAYONNE. N.J. 07002. 4:1 - :10 1}ijl' 12' 113 .15 717? 118 119_11 17?2?f:. 1211: - at_large;? qaestiong you do knaw whathRe_woras'geaeta11y r?cognize?? means, sir? yam knew the_meaning of thos? commonly used Wozdsg 9' Hor?gepeta11y_recognizea by tha scientific world. MR, R?ssnavgz? wheie 6098 it say that; Mk. car: 1n the question? MR1 CARR: The ward generally is ther? 1n the 1MR. wer?s you justhut 1ntoRitg.t Mr. Cart, where does it say that 1n the question? (By Mr. Cary) Rx. Rark, yen anaerstand what the .1 wards ?generally_zee09n1zed? means; don?t,you. sirR wheane're_11m1ted by the words on th1s paper. Q1 W311, my quest19n 1s a s1de fromR that, Rr. Park, 'Well, yes, and I 16311 kndwi~?_ A11 :1ght. Raw, Rr. RarR. juSt cne thing a a . time. You do knew what the wards ?generally recognized" -Na, if you y??_them in'a eantext; 51:? A, 'Ru t-them-1n a context, Rr. Carr. I intend to 60 so after 1 get your agreement that7"' lunm IL Ian A Cm. ?mum. q'luw A - I 51,0" I ,4511 1nf 12 I 13 142 ?1154"' IlfI 18411 -119}111 - . _'2oi ':W123:l1 24*; . A- words?genera11y recogn1zed?? A . A. of the word ?recognized?" ,?,meaAj 13 that correct. Mr. Park? A A1 . knew the wor& generally means.- I'm not ask1ng you _about th4__' -lW?138?n I don't know that.1_do, Mr. Carr;' that you kn6w'the meaning of t?e1' Generally recognized, n6. A Yes, 9, ?Mt. Cart you doh't know. we?ll pass on, six. 'AYou don't know what th? word "genetally? means? We didh?t knaw what-the writer m?ant. Do you know the mean1ng of the w?td general?" I'm not sure I knew the prec1se meaning of that. Ed you knew a commonly accepted mean1ng of the 1309 You dOn't know that. :Do you know the meahihgf?f.1? I know the mean1ng of the word?recognized1??1 _You do knew the mean1ng of the ward ?recognized??if All r1ght . But you don' know wAat generally Okay;_ Excuse me, Mt? Park, I'm aSking about what ya? . '96] FORM IL 24 8-, PENGAD CON-BAVONNE. NJ. 07002 10. I 12 TJ3 14" 1?16 19 . "*21 "121' '23 1? 0'24"i- regard to_hh1s 1" ,talking abeut is because yeu' re net in that m1nd 91 that ,to assume what 1s the 1awye? ?raft1ng these has 1n A I In many eentexts I do know what the werd means, Mr. Carr, obviously. . A11 right; W911. apparently not so obv1ously because yen ?en1ed 1t a moment age that yen knew what 1t meant. A1. ,fbkay. . 'W1theht eontekt. Mg; cart 54 (By Mr.- carg) whatjewmas?aying now; in? this: I centext you den? kn?w what is meant by the use of the words ?3 ?Thet's eerr?ee; And the same thing, if yeu' re what you' re .1 persen, aha Yen 't knew just precisely what that person means, so yeu?te just going to asSume then that it's t0 be 5" have no attentii'eh pa1a te.1bty' and you' re net go1ngfte 91ve51t7 th commenly aecepted useage, are You, ei_r', or mean1ng? MR. MUSGRAVE: Object te th1s 1ihe of queet1en1ng. your Benet. These are questiene asked, that have to be _responae& t0 in accordance With- ru1es, and no one 18 requiregh is the duty of the lawye: t0 he specifie with the question 39 they can be respondea to. It?s unfair for Mr. Car: to 97 U) :q?aik .1v PENGAD 60.. BAVONNE. 10 ?11* 113% ~14 1:5_ 16" 17 (18. ?19- 20 1i21X .2337 27f7247g11 taking 11 ouer?'QVntext c?lth? tulas'that g1verni1h?__ *1osponses that are 1:11. I . 1 11 1 11111 that goVegn Request: for Admissions. 111191 10 both 1 131.11111 11311 court, 1161111 11111. and the admin1atra11ve aganay ;1n.1h1 federal.syatem. 11? 1b31111en 13 119111116. ?yoa denied 1111 2 3, 7 3 ream is generally xecogntzed to be 1111 19111 1111111, 111'1 yang 111? .jg1n 11111 191111113 15 111. . *11111111119111111011~11ax119 211 111 that. 111'1 yen, 311? 111 11011: 111 quaau1oning 1s campl?tely 111111 .'lQ3. (By H1. Cart) at. Park. question number 14, 111 1911 10x11 11 the ?11111? you, 11:? A Xes. W111, now yen do 1111 11 paint.o? 21?1 that 2.3, 7,8 1899 is gengza11y 1113111111 16 ha 111 1031 19111 a: A I 111 as 111 11115 are 1116 1a 1111 pantieulat 61111111. Mr. Carr. ;11 W111, haw an 11:11 1- what meaning 111 you 911 from that. 1111: than the waz?s. 811? 1? It 11111 11: anything about 11 not 1111111 1111311 19' What 11 11 1h11?1 n11 totally 19:11:17 A 2 119.1111 1613 has 111111111 in 11 a: 1151 ns?d" .Q- 1111, 1113 1111 yau 19 above theta. is 11111 111 1 A 111.'1 661 . 11 98- .IL 34 u' BAYONNE. NJ. 07002 LJof 1rn1: 1.13 j? ,_14 '.is .16' 41:9", .103:: 1:21 123? 2-47.- - I 1 H13 tetrachlorodibenzo-p~d1031a. hereinafter referred to as? you see that, don' you, 31:? that, 81:? '*d1benzo-p-diexin 15 generally recogn1zed to be the mast taxic' of the tetra 130mers, isn' 1 1t, 31:? 1" generally recognized.1 and ?1na11y with the term ?tetra. yen knew what the word?genera11y?meant. "that clear. sarry. MR. MUSGRAVE: Just a mament,'Mt. Carr. Ab?v?' 1t says 1t's 22 130mers. (By Mr. Carr) You see that, danFt yd?;?sit, TCDD A .Ye?g 51:9 . . I ., They use that term TCDD, tetrachlorodiben20w9~ 1 A. es. You can read those together? A I .Yes, 31:. I So you know that that means. 2,3,718 ?ettachlota4' IA YT There wauld be another difficulty with the term 9? A11 right. I thought wa agreed we-knew what the FA Met in this context, Mr. Carr. I tried t? make - W911, what do yen think 1: means in ?h1s context?-I .A - We did not knowzwhat it meant in this context. 6_ My questien.1s what do yau as a 1awyer,_a graduat+ BAYONNE. NJ. 07002 roman 249 10 'n 12 13 14 91522", I239 '99 99999 999991999 19 natally'ixrelevant. Putting 91s 9999? You 99y 999999d, I 999 9999 generally 99999, and than 9199 y999 9921919199 99 the ward generally. It 399 999 99199 the 99:9 ?9999:911y* 19' '.9999. y99 9999999 91999 99 999 99 929 99999: 9919 99 the 9999999 .9199 that y99 9999 ?999999113 99999 39 999 99. ?99 9999 99991-139 That?s 999 999-99199, ?rs_C9xr. 2&3; it #39: I I I 993 19'199?9; .9 91- 9; .19?9'9999919 999199199; '1 93. 999999993 1:?993999 99 999'99999199m9999989 19 19u999 :99 99199.? 9991599 99y 9919K 19 99999 19'r939999199. 19999999999199 99 99:99 that may h999 9999: 9999199 to other 999919.. I 993999 ta 9999 as 99199 1999199999. THE 6099?: 993999199 19 9992:9199. It 19 pxeperly the 99199 19 the 999999: 9991991999. 999 93999991. I 9999 9999_1t 99999 19 a 91999 9999999. ,9?9 (By Cart) 99. Park? . I 919 999 9999 9-999 19 99999 19 this 9999999. .9 Than 999 99919 9999 respen?e? 99 that. "We 99119995 9999 99999, 99: 99999999 99 99: 99999: 99 9999 9999999 19 y99 99 99, 999999199 99 whatever 299 9999-90 993. If 999:9 19 any 9999999 19 999: 9199 99999 the 9999199 9? the word. yau 999w 50mg IL 24 6 mr~ BAYONNE. NJ. 07002 ?10' ?12_:fi 1713 [fax I 19 -::21Gl11 :12231il. ?G4ji;' f?maon'G Yea. Mr. Park? I 31:? _7_G19m_sureg "'GmosG people be11eve something Ga be 30. ,Generally means not everybody, but masG N9G_Ghat _everyone says so, but most Peapla say 1G's 90. That?s the' ward ?generally :eccgnized.. Generally understood whatfs .. the question.. AG. .Counsel advise? to anawer 1G as we did. - Excuse_me. my qaesGian 19 you knew that, don't A ?We had the liberty Go answer-1G Yea cou1a have made it very pree1ae what you meanG;-' generally meana? Let me suggeSG to you that 1G means that MR. GhjeeG-Go Gh?.mG1Giple forG-cf - THE COURT: Objectian THE WITNESS: I w?u1d Gave-Go answer Mr. Carr. .9 Mr. Garr) I'm Garry? . GAI weal have Ge answer no. Q, And 39 you Genie? GhaG 1: was genera11y recognizec? to be Ghe masG Gax1e ef Ghe Getra 1aomers. a1dn' Yea, 31:? . ?s V.New whaG am you be11eve, as yea 81G hera Gaday, that Ghe word G'Ghe way you understasd Gho se Gwe wGras are Go be taken, don"t_ [,191 ll. 2?8 FORM PENGAO (9.. BAYONNE. 07002 .3172. 11 1?2: .114 15? .116,1 11 .Ij18'1? l9 '11 117 . the final product. You also 1111ed the next one, that you had analyzed samples 01 orthochlorepheaal 9:11ueed at the w.e. -Krummrich 71111 10: the presence 01 111x11, 1111 pt 10: to ?.ana after February 7. ?79, 1161'1 you. 3117 A .1 YQSO New,'again you knew that the truth 13 that yau 'did analyze orthoehlorophenol, b?th before and 11:1: Febru11yl . th? 7th. '79, 101' on, air? 531 Ybu-don't that; 3117 You: ?hemists 1101-1] that. We' ve got the accumenta 1n evide1ce here, 31:. A 1 I an' 1 think that?s corre?t. I thin - an. yes. In Maxgh.1? ?73 vulean asked yau to 'analyze 11: the presence 11 116311, and you did._' MR. {Inawhatt Mr. Carr? - MR. In orthochlexephenol. I MR1 MUSERAVE: crude? .Q . '(By?Mx. Carr) 131?1 that eorrect, 31:7 - A '1 th11k that was a aiff?zant pt?duet. Mt. C1119 .I'You?do1't know that Ybu'r? selling orthochloroe ?;9hanol to Vule1n and Reichhold Chemical7 1_ I 10116 assume that arthochlorophenol means the ?111111 9111111. I believe the other might b1 the crud e, not .1 1oz .Ouu?m n. 44D BAYONNE. NJ. w: 1? u. I101 127 13 '1?4 . . 115: 151617 17' 119 Izd_?1 7w2l.11 1 22-1! in '79 callea orthochlozophenal? Eat the ptqduet yau sell *that. are you. 51:? ehlerophen?1 crude, 1t'a not Shawn by the documents, and yaw .adm1tted 1n request number 7 that You manu?actuzed ezthochlarc phen?l, and they' re talk1ng about the orthechloxophenel praduc ?.at that plant, aren't they, sir? .wa$ 31mp1y incorrect. Mr. Carz,1and I'm asSuming that it was I, because samples of this particular pra?uet, the orthochlore?- I gh?nol itself had.not b?en-analyzeas 'that you 've seen - analyzed. I?ve seen them to yea, where they analyzed the 90 you have a product that you sell at the plant Pas Otthechlatophenol etude. Ycu don' sell anYth1ng other th%n A, sorry, 1 just don' know the answer to that.w Well, if yon sell anything ether an an the ?rthe? _1 'hA' Request numbe: 15 was a statement or numbaz 15 - But yea know that it?s not the case. Y?ujknow7 A. V9 1 yau?va seen the documents where they? ve 92th?chlorophanplo A crude? They' re net even talking about orthochlozephenal I crude, and neither ate yea. You call it OCP in a11 at yang 11' documents, dan't yea. 31:? ea: .m11163 ll. Ill! NJ. 07001- 'nnow ?10 9Vh" 129% '913' 14216 ?16 f" 4'17 l-hlg 1"65141- 9?lf1199 . l. . 66666 665666566 knew, 6hough, didn't they. 61:? I 6663 well, that?s n66.airborne concentrat1on of 616316;: ?Theln?x? questian, 18, you dany 16?.616316 exp6sur?. 65616 you, 31:? I. exposure. ?on' 6 yoa, 81r?. ?He-ap?nt weeks here testi?ying 66-6666. Do you una?rs6ana, "siz? - And here y6u?xe aay1ng 16 6613 69666666 6666 16?s not -- 1 1?666?6 know, cart. on "You d6n'6 kn?w -tha6.- The people 6ha6 You went' A I 66616 666666 66. 9 Over 6n page_-~ the next page en ques6166 17. you A. Yes. And y6u know that 16 is a of 616316 A . N06 Not as limited by 6615 document. Mt. Park, 66 y6u 6666686666 that~?he witness)? 666 616668566 preceding y6u. Dr. 86636, 6666 666 66316166 6666 ehloracne is the onIy of dioxin p6iaoning, n6ne_ 666628. . A I .-Yes; A11 right.__ 1Q he swarejund?treath-that 16 19 Ia what? '69' (By Mr. Carr) 666666 by 616316 961366169. ,99 1-, (3y 666:). Of dioxiabexpaaut?? "194 PENGAD B-AYONNEL NJ. 07002 FORM IL I243 10.6 17n -12 [113 14 II 15 16 '18 19 121f?64 7126. '211 th?'qu??tiG?Iaskad. Th?t?'s 666 613166666 666661666. 66: 6661661661 661 06661 I.y66 66 66666 6666 661666666 16 6 6y66666 6! 616616 63666666. _666916 66 661696 6666 6666696 66 66 66 66661616 6666666 66y ?616 666 6666166666 666 66 66 6 666611? 6666666 6666666661 "6y66666' 6666:61f 66 6666 666 word ?661666666? 66666. 66. 66666666: 66:) 666. 66693 66666623: to 666-6 I 663 665666166 16 666666166. 666 WITN3836 No1 66'66 66:61y 666y169 this [By 6611. 16 6616 6666666, 16 16 666166 ,6 7 666 16 666 6666666 66 6616 66666666. I 66666 6 1'31; 6611. y66 6666 666 66666 6166 6666 666 6666 . 6 661 6- ?g'?hat1th? 6666 66 6666'666 6666 ?666666669.666661 . Y661 6' Is that 16, 66. $666, 666 6f 66666 66666 you 666'6 6666 6666 16 666667 I -661 66 ?661 666 666666666 66 6616666 666 666 t?tallykaet?8?? 6 I 066x 6 6 6661 6666616661 666 6663666 66 66169 666166661 6 . 4 66666 16 16 666 66666661 616? E66 666 661661 it?s 666 6666 6666 66 63' 6 1-53; . [lam/I IL. 91 ?new gm. llh'ulinh. 10 ?~11 12? 14 ?15. 17. Ih18 IVVI?teStifying und er oath for a considerable period of time that '1 19.: A21 izie 7 .gif A, may act result in chloracne. Other things. :At least that was the conclusion' drawn Six years ago. 'doesn?t a sk you to say that it's only dioxin that can oause AIt?s a simple little statement that you had witnesses here I chloraone was a of dioxin exposure.li :wN eXposuze, dose. thi -There' no mention about AI That' 3 right, there iSn' There '8 no mentiOn.about doses A That's right., Mere exposdre to a Small amount I>Yes. SO ?fl A large amount may. ?.Yes, that's right. A We don't know; But chloracne can be causedey That's rue. No d?ubt about that..? A so the statement as Written is not wholly correct; It doesn' say it's the only and it it. It dOeSn't ask you to say the amount that oan oaus it. MR. MUSGRAVE: Objection, that's not the testimony_ MR. CARR: It?s not the testimony?7' MR. Dose. not exposure. THE Objectioh.is Overruled; _Yo? may *h ?Ip39093d6Mx- cart. 1 if 1 Q-Y (By Mr. Catt) Here in order Ea stop th16 f3. .ptoaeed1ng that was 96166 on, you und?rE66kYE6~deny the truth of something that Dr. Roush has pointed 666 decnment after - I ~5 661666666 16 the hallmark 6f d16x1n 63666626. 1g 1=1Chlotacne 1s gen6tally recegnized as being 666366 by 616616 'e?P98urei Yet here you aeny it. aen?t y?u, 61:? :6g6: 1' 1656 tot6l1y false. 63. earn. 6?61 V, 1 ,0 That's E6tally ?6166? .. . '9 10 A That was 666 the stappin Ptaceeding at 611. Th1+ 6Vh?v 1' was merely as you 866; this was the f1rst 66: .6E interrogato~ 1, '12 $163.9 Th6se that were net Eota11y correct, we would aeny. ?actaally expecting that the plaintiff, 038A, 66616 6666 back I 34 91116166 3666 6616 66661166 666 more 6166: requests admission%. ?1 '151 Did y66 6611 them somewhere, 616 you wr1te them in 16i'216 a 6666666t saying that 66666: 18. we don'E kn6w 6666 You mean 11' by we 693?6 66:66. 66 dan't knew what chlaracne 1.6., 6: 2' 13 1? be'm?r??Pt?GiS? 66666 what you mean by stptems. 6: b6 m6t6 El 19' l.pr661se what y66 6666 by 6x666666. right, 666? 2256' you understand that yen have the right, 666 you. Mr. Park, .?gy6.i' 1E y?u 6611666 16's ambiguaus. and yea don?E 6666:.6Eand 1t. 9 22' 11> y6u have the :1ght to 6bj66E E6 162 You have the r1ght E6 16f2?691 - 66y 66 66666: 66666: that qn?st1on 6666666 1t?6 ambiguous; 5 dag'E-undarstan? what it 66666, :66 6666 E66 xigh?ggff (uum 4? PENGID (.30.. OAVQNNE. Wu, wow; Hmw? Alx _10? '11 12' '13 14.? 151? 'nlijs 15? 1 2! 'Y?3f771 Vt?c'do ?hatg'youknaw that, don?t_you, 1t 1t was amb1gueus, or you d1dn' know what 1: maAnt. yea mean by by dioxin, or,i Teanjectu??v .. 393'1 . But you d1dn't dc that w1th these questions, 615 Yau,'31z? . . I 7We den1ed those that were not totally correct. A . Ana you dian?t t?ll them that you were deny1ng you just out z1ght denied didn' yen sin? A A Yes, if 11 was not totally correct. Now, don?t you reckin that they could have given ?you more questions i?iyou 3&161 ?Hey? we really don?t undet- 1? stand what you mean by that. Give us more detail. because we? MR. Object.te the Speculation and Objection is ovexrule?. THE WITNESS: What we followed was the common methad cf practice. Mr. BAKE. advised by a counsel experienced 1n OSHA matters.' We fullY expected 08.3A Would come back with, several series of queatians that would define themselves. A - (By Mr. Carr) But tAey didn' t, did they, 51:? dontg?believe.they aid. .1 '75122. 77138 DUNN H. 4. u. amount, km. wow . 10' '12 113,;_ 16-5 18. i . Ii?j 11 I 31:? 1: ?whege' 8939 foundation for that. It's tetally 1: I1II conjecture. I abject-Io 1t. VII Ihem thaI.1? You'll send us mere questions. mate the wer?s like campauna and sympIom. and TCEB, de?ine II, we can give yIu anathex If answers? 1t didn't consist.of Irthechlerophenol, did it, 31:? valm?, a16n?I?Ith, I A.- 15100 HR. abject to Objection. Peeulf?x? THE counr; objection is Iverzu1ed. .an (By Mr. Carr) Did yIu writa Ihem a latte: saying- '79- Did'yeu say that II them? A VNI. Raw In questiIn number 26 yea 61d adm1I that a chemical spill 31:2 I A X95.- . '1 -A I think cesxect. 3I111 consisted If 2,4?91Ch1030Phea61 Ihat I as In what anyone at OSHA did upIn rev1ew1ng and receiv1n93111 _precise questions, Ina define every word 1n yIur decument, 9".g1' PENGAD C0.. BAYONNEVNJ. 07002 FORM IL 243 no 121_" is? 14 i ?15 '16 :17 ?1-8 19 26? '21 :2 1 23' 19793 isn?tthat tight, 31:? A 'Sax nh? agill-gafezxe? to ?n x?qaas? aumb?x-ze. the spill numb?z AGFX 23316, danf?.?hey; .53 3&1? >ga11?ns w- a: ia_1acegze?g. 223;, I335 it dia agillifzem that rail car. did itana?; thln? itwaa-anathgx :ail?qat. With a.dif?erea?.nambeg? wara di??a??nug sir? =x>14 15'- . {16_ 17. 18 19 21~ .121-5' ?7 23.: ?V'ptas?nee of-dioxin prior to Febrquy the Do_y9u See. 1that3131r2' Yes, I see that. . Qv And I suggested to you you had, 1A69ed, testid Itwo saAplas 1A 1978. 00 you recaiI thAt I suggasged ?you37 . . a . IAA. I think I do. MR. Wculd you maxk th1s as an exh1b1t, 9184399 (Alaintiff's Exhibit 1549 was magked _for by Aha ccugt Q.. '(By Mr. Carr) It's the only copy I AAve. so I show it ta you f1xst, Caunselq 1549. A . I hand you wAat's beeA Plaintiff's Bxh1A1t 1549 and see 11 you reevgnize that As anather mama wz1tten eAr11et 1n po1nt 1A time by James WilsAA, to you, an the subject, .of 8a add now also OA- the subgect of 15a. An an EA he A teIIs You that by*pr0du?t 13 9:933:13 1A the process there, ?ees he net. 81:? 3a.- A, on, I'm sorry. Yes, he A 'AAd-whae does-he say About by?pxoa??gruhere? AA. says ?As chemista'use AAe'w?rd 1 7 7 (0.. amount. Uluu? .10 . gr I 121 i3, 'Ii41v 1? 7,17, 1.19,? ?101: 721? . 2.224'171' 51222306122122 can be manu2a?tured as ?chlorophenol manufacture. Dibenzofurans cannot so be made." I 'H.yeu whether or 22: it's true that yeu' we analyzed 3222102 22 '.72119?9??2 and 20226 20 cont?in 22 8162123." . analyzed 12: isn't that correct. B127 had 222. Perhap 8 12 was a 212292222 3226222. I dan't know; .lPexhaps there wa a mistake made. I ?an?t remembeta exh1bits 12 evidence that 32222 that yon requested 12 1978 22 1?xa?tlijhatgbr. Wilson 18 2611129 yau._ But What daes he say about 15a where OSHA has asked Porthechlorophenol fer the presence 92 219312 prior to February 231 He says. 'Tw? samples pro?uced- 12 1978 were agaly??d And he suggests the answer to that quest1o2 should be yes7 VA Yes. But nenetheless, you answered it 22, knew1ng that 1n 2222.2222 Dr. 211322 po1nte? ant ta yea that you 236 2" The tesyanse want in denying that. I 222222 'reeollect exaatly why. Perhaps Dr. Wilson was 120222921 226 2% Mr. Park, as I advised you- already_. we have ";2na1yze;222'diex1nai and you did; They?re in evidence. That'%; I A. II Ye?o - hav129 these facts you aen1ed the truth 21 222 1. w; M. 1-497 runM Irzquo Ico.) anonua?m 01001 .11 1 .1122" 20 ?1sz. 1fe235} statement. d1dn? 6 yen. .. Dz. Wilson was one of 6.66666: 6 6 pa6p16 wh6.7 -3 '_I19666161966ed in . I 6.. II '4Il Exeu?a 66._ M6. Park, 6666 iBn '6 whae 1' asking. Is. 1A. . I understandII, Nevertheless. having knowledge 0 6 these facts, -7I *960p16 can ?6 overrul?d ?6668. 1611 61>6 - These 66 6 Statements coming from Dr. Wilson.v 6 96 These facts, be 6616 you W666 ?6663, and 6I66y _16631 were 1nd6ed ?6666. but y66 you &6616d 666 66666 of 666m. dzdn't1? I I 1 MR. Obj?ction, 16?s 6666662? to the .13. 1.6v1dence. y?ur donor, as 66 what the ?6665 6666.- 16?s_1978 IQ- crude was analyzed. net 666 CF. 15.1; . THE Cov?rg- 063666166 is overruled. is: 66? (By 66; 66616 yaa answer the question.:1 A I a have 66 say 60, Cart. . . 6186.: ?9 6A11 :196 6. On the I think we were 66 -- _yau 6: 'i?_666denied that 666 chemical in 666666 33. Y6u 666166 6666 666 i 6 6lchemical 6p111 you den1ed the 6ru66 66 666 _?666 6666 666 '21 newsgaper 6661616 66666666 thezeI waa ful1y 16. 1idan166 all these ma666 rs from 33 down through 41 all togethex, I 6666156666"16 6165.} This was a Iproeed?ralIthing; MK. @6661 116 PENGAD C0.. BAYONNE13.~ 16, .19, f;19' '1 :9 . 22'" was I991: 1991 was 991 :91eva91 _19-1he 983A 1 objected to i1.I 999 11999 11 was ?911 1991 99- 91199: had 19- 9.9991 1 or deny 11, we denied 11. 1?99919199999'1 you, 311? Idenial. You didn' 1 191 1999 199w that y99 W919 denying I99 technical grounds, did you, 91:? 15} f,9n technical interpretation 9* ??953 did Y?n' b9919, Mr. carts That's 9 919919999191199 91 9991 119 I 9919999; . Well, at 19991 9919 y9u 91ve 199 199999 ?91 199 A Yes. - I ?i '1 You' :9 1911199 them 1999 1191 you are 999y1ng it on technical 9199991, wherein in 19999 9199: instances of A I 9 999: we ?911 11 99919 be understead. . Excuse me. Wiuld ycu answ91_1hat question. _We just 9991.99 11. QI 'And y9u 9199?1 191 them 1999 1991 you 9919 999319. MR. MUBGRAVE: W911, 1 object 19 that. T1911 9991;92y 19 9991 199 answer says. Th9 ebjeetion says that 199 l'basis 11 is immaterial 996 irrelevaat, 991 9999 technical .M, 99999991 says."? 9? (By Mr. Carr) Could y9u'an?w?r my qgesgian'I? -_999,999993 -Tha 993991199?19 999199199; 7? 91 round. n. u-u . "mun co.. snows. NJ. ?91002 1 1 L, 5"5 fr :10 ?111 12?" 13 . 1-14 1 151 1116 47 .- 18- :19. 7? 31?:1101 any sart dated be?ere February the 7th . 1979 which any 2? ']134-41Yassoeiated with dioxin handling. ether than the labatatery I for denying, 616 you? .2 41. didn?t you2 February 7, 1979 inspeatien. Respondent's employees 1n ?wexe manufactured, handled, or stared were net advised of the . '3?9127? .-employee Was aavised at any t1me that they were hand11ng ,1 12222212283932 We aidn?t 31322 we ware - we just 1 (BY Hr- Carr) And yen didn't give any reason I 2" Ne. that's correet. As yen d1d g1ve a reasqn for denying 33 thraugh A - Yes; Q. -. NOVA, directing your attention ta number 42a and b, yau deny 42 a and b. dbn?t you, 31:2 42 says. "2:19: ta 73the areas of its 22 G. _Krummrieh Plant where chlorinated phenols_ c?ntamiaatinn;: Yau aan1ed that, Yes;- . 2y denying that, you mean to say that they were .advised of tha hakatds 91 dioxin contamination, don't you. 31:21: Yes. fa A New, 61& yea ever see a dacument er memorandum Ydiexin. ether than the laharatary empleyees,. an? at the hazards:- - ulna. NJ. 10.. mum-mu 10' 614 I 115 js'z 18'61 .10--9 21_ -22"1j 3'25}. 3724'?- _.empioy?e1? Mr. Cart, I cannot recall with great specificity,? 1but I believe that some emp1eyees in. the pentach1orophenol apezat1oniw?uld have been advised concering ehloracne. TThis 'V??ld haV?Vbe?h 1n wt111n9 and I think that there were verba11_ 191 think that? 1? .293. '9 VBut.My'questien did you-eve: see any memo} any- 'wtiti?gfgany document. Vi AI I th1nk theta wag soMe writing?on the ahloraene.3. 95 In the pentaehletoph?ho1]department? A .Yes, 7Q Thath11ting was datea 91 The 111$ hazaxa they were 1116 that wag F?asible was ehleracne. There ?91was Same reversible 1191: changes 13 what they 9111. That?s l'the 0113 aacument that 11: Roush ceu1d ?116. aaear?ing to h1s -_Htestimany, 11 which employees were 1916 cf the hazards, 01 131931115 hazards of dioxin contamination? no yen have any 'knowledge 91 anything e113. other than that2 Cue: I just think -e a. -__We11. 1&11h1nk.._ I yeah, uh~huha - . 7Naw question numb?: 46, would yam leak at that, ?tzz FORM IL .24 PENGAD NJ. 01002 10 I '3 -12 13 14520. '.21 23? ..24 . 'Dur1ng the manufacturing process of certain chlorinated phEnol% I ptEdueed aE Respandent?s W.G. Krummrich Plant the following -- found in the manufaeEur1ng'pEEaEsa of EhesE chlorinaEEd phenels5 den't you, 31:? .here mighE 3E 61Ex1n concentration. dEesn1E 1E, 31:? Ana 15 parts pEr 1; m1111an5 deesn1E 1t, 31:? And look at dacument 11355 there's 1_thousan?s and tha?sanda of dioxins thousand putts pg: b1111?n ?iqxins _1n yea: pro?uat, according EE 1135, aren't as far as a prEaE?E5 Mr. Cart. as a pErE of proaess A I Xes. 1 In numb?r 46 they ask yoE to admiE Ehat5 quote5 EonEEminaEEs are patentially diax 1n5 TCDB5 .11 aha 25357.3 TCDD5 d9 they n6E5~sir?, A Yea Q5. And you deny the EruEh of EhaE5 dEn' Yea? IA rYes. Q- Now yen de know that 6163138 ware EresenE.1ni? A NEE personally. I assume EhaE there documenEE? 0. well. 169k at EEis Eatad 6/5/79. IE EalkE?abEut. E11 kind.s E1 d1Ex1ns prEsEnE EndeE all Ehe ae cc1amns deaiing wiEh dibxins, all eight 6193113 deElt with. There?s sir? MR. wanE EE Eha me wh1ch onE- says .rIouM u. 140 anon?. N.J. 67902 11? Igr iiI- 'Iegi?g.. 'Ijs =:16 1i7I .50. "ii Ii?i?xins. Xau dan?t have any questien about that in your m1nd,? daeuments _1neozrect1y. request that it be atx1cken tram . the recor? as 1mproper charactet1zat1on of the ev1dence. Mr. 682:; th1nks. - I want.the-ane cf parts in a productginot_ v.191?ase.? i talking abaut a11 d1931ns. a11 the evidence. a11 the ?1n61ngs these can taine?- (By Mr. Cart) Would you answer the question; I MR. MUSGRAVE: .ObjeCE 10Icounae11aIt?pre?en?a?ioh. THE CCURT: @bjection 1s overruled. .Iou_may I I (By Catt) zeEers net just ?0 processing, but to produets. p?t as MTII-I I A I don' know that, Mr. Car 1. That's not What I said. I said> in'a'graeassIstraam. TEE $0311: .Mr..earx, (By Mr. Carr) Yea da knew thht??iox1ns ar? preducea and have been fauna in year graduate, don? yen, 51:} Which aIUxin. Mr. - I don' 1 care about dioxin. is dioxihg' 11?8" II Any dia?ine You denied that. and'YeE 16a had I1I *1124 vuml IL 1? I. gluu? PENGAU nAvunnL. nut. ".10 ., .WC 1 ,-12 ?13 .15' I 716 I '17.1 t9 it. The custhary thing is th?W the complainant? .1911, ?f726--1 .22 do you, 81:? 1111-01.? 9 This item number 46 461a) . I 1113 totallcharteet, Mt. Carr1: '-I_t1s Vague 1n WWme ,Wher? 1 3 1t incorrect. $1r2I_ 2A11 tight.? Certa1n chlorinated phWWo1s.. certain chlarinated phenols 1n61uded Santophen, 2 4-Dichlorophenol, orthechlorophen01: 1sn't that cWrrect. Wir2 0 A A. .?Eha? waSn't? I . _Those are Wat 2 We are 11m1ted to th1s document. _We1re tryi?g' wou1d come back w1th another document. 523_- Hr. Park, p1?as de1t get off on that Wgain.~ 'They'x? asking'yWW for things WutW1de the-dWcument. They? ta. '?'wantingrge knew 46_th?y1re wanting tell them that_1t's We can a?mit Wt deny. - Yen a?Wy. and guilty 125' H. . NJ. omw '10? iiz .13 j4if* 15' 17' 18.. 1 15 V-lzoI 22. '_1f You deny '50meth1ng-Ihat you'know Ia be an; Izthg Sate; 'ITyou?re capable of dehi1ng eve:yth1ng..as yam a1d.j But 11?: Vand?an aItaek on the witness. ,1 ask and the juryI be instructed to disregard 118 1ncorxect. you should deny it. But naw_ I'm asking you. I whare is 1t 1ncerrect that certain a: your A. Okay.? Ihe vague II the places where the ataIemenI I . I I I -I1 No, leI's say where 1I's incorrect. A I said 12's not a tetally coxreet statement. I Okay. What a isn' I 1I totally correct that cegIain1~ :_Whgn he saia eezIa1n chlorinated phenola. For example II, deceitful to do that.1 17 No, air, not when 1I"5I1neezrecc. 1- CARR: Itfs a-speeahg year Renar. Raquest IhaI 1% be stgi?ken. It's not.& q?estion. It's an 1nninuat19m_? THE COURT: It's overruled. was a 9:991: questiana .Q '{By Mr. Carr) M11 Park, I agree w1th yon, 11 1t if1erinated phInels contain d1axin as a cantaminant? Iichlorinate? phenols II the Krummrich Plant had We had an way If thawing what Ihe writer meant You den'I knew what the ward ?chlorinated phenal' ;l1 ?qum H. u? PENGAD -UAVONN1. NJ. uluw .1. 13", .155 11:11? .. AziW. ?1-13" ~11r"1ir?a I-Avv -We didn?t knoW what he Meant when he?wrate thatg he had put aeWn a spec1fie 1190333, or a syne1?1c product ?1 garbage, that might have Ween different. But he d1dn'1. He_ lvsala aertazn chlaz1natad phen01.s. 50 1E You have chlorinat?a.phenels.that have? '"_diox1ns. that?s What he' talking about, 1sn'1 he,s1r? A. I don't 301 . What do yen think he1a talking about 11 he1s n91 '1 ,viiHLW talking abou1 chlorinated pheno1s? 1 1 guess 1kg 9x919 W11h the advice at ceunsel ";;Woa?xuaea that this was thegesege..shanza ?IIdezad at this 11me. The Same is true ?43 _l I I 7 HWW ?an 11.11 ambiguaus? at numb?r?321 I?Iladm1t that y_ou1xe aWaze of spills at chlorinated phenols I ?_mannfaa?ured there. Yam admit number-32, and they used th? ?11 ?IWora chlorinated phenols. - Well, the Ward ?certain chlarinated phenoia" f. raises the qaestion.? So 1he Word 11's not 1chlerinatbd1 .'gphenels." 11's the yoga ?certain.- ?Is, chlorinated phenola.? Ceztazn chlazinated pheno1s _1nc1uded a11. doesn 1 127. .2 2? roan lL 249 PENGAD NJ. 01002 10 - 1'2 . '514 is} 171 15" 2 . 1 3:19 31?; 22 I W163 V?ezon't eextainvchiarinataa'phenals; 111n11.1hay 21111111'111111112' Then the 11:11 - 3333,9 333 1111'1 certain enlazinated Ph?n313 I ?on?ain 111x111? . Ari 1.: 91111813 at 1111, we 111116 that. v_ 331111.11. I know denied 11. 20111 telling Ikma what you 111. 31111311119 yen 111111.1111111 chior1nated. 21 I 111': 1111;1111. 5111 don?13111w 1111.? Azan't 1111: 11111111111 1111111 1111?111 11111 11:1 11 1111111 1249111 1- v1.13 1111. what, pen1a ahlor1na?ed phenol? A I - 11 - Ana 111'1 they 1111311 111x113 111116119 to 1111 ?1 1111111? Yes, they appear to. -7111g11unw: I 1111 1 111: 1111 answer. 111,11111111 1111411113111111 t1. .333 111111; 11111ay11.p11111 111 11 1111 yea: 211. '-111:111111 '11111 y?u, Qr_l 314~311111191111111 111111.1hey 11111111111 . 4.7121 .IL PENGAD co? savanna-9.1: 'ozou; Ii 1/ E: _105 ?12 13 14 .15.. V'js7 =17 ?7191? '9129 11;9f9999999993 911 the 9199, don't y9u, 21:? "19f241 Ca7?9s 993' 'nun99997' .A. '7 was n9t sufficiently, 9999113 9999999. 99 99 warrant 9" q. A . '999999"' 9 9'999 99'11 d9 9h99 by saying that 9h19rinatad 999991 is vag999. ?B9t yo9 999 the words chlorinated phenols throughout your 1 9N9. I Where 13_1t.9999999 319?. 9999:9999 9?_1919 I Th9 statement was 99g99.-? _Wh99 part 91?19419 1999:9999? '5812? 999 concluded that 19 was at the 9199. (By Mr. y099'sir For-putp?SESfof-this 999999999.Y99. Knowin?.19f99 be 999.99999? 9999 part of 19 19 999999. sir? 1'9 9911199 yea that 999 999999999 19 our 9919199'? 9- 99 999999999999 What p999 9919?199199999999?1s $929919 99199199999 9999919719'999999_ We ~;9999- 9999999 that already, We concludea?that?19.99999 999 What 999 9919 was 99 re~going .99 deny that 99.. IL ?40 IUNM I co.. ?mum. .11. 1315: "1161 .N111 V1.3 . 119.1} I1Q205: -. 1 'f22111 '23? ,{got mnlt1p1e-parts. Request.that it be stricken. 5 - Vaguene35 akwut that. You use that wozd. They use that ward. there's no question that you knew that there were presen 5 in your Nhlaxinatad.phenols5 in certain 0f them5. ,Iglzi?9" 5 says eertain of them. ?TbeNe-s N6 quasti?n it-135 hYO?_k??Wg th?ti 'f'Tquestian; - - L601 at-thia deeument tight her?, chl?rinatedN. ..f?ph9391. phehol. chlaroph?nol5 chlorinated ?Nh?n91? They re synonymous, aren' they, sir? There' ne 5 What e156 ate they going to -. MR. MUSGRAVE: Objaet th qne3t1on. -1??afi THE COURT: Objeet1an 1s oVerzuled.? (By Mr; cart) What abaut the next one5 Tabb-5 -- A Not all of them. 1 Na, 1t doesn?t say all cf them, aces 1N5 six? It' g"-Exause me, Mt. Park. N0u112yau answer,?hat 1 'At 1.have to ansNetvno5 than, MTN Caxr5, 1Q .12 You didn?t know it?- I .5 Ag 1 Net the Nay yen phzased the quest1on. ?111 The person that Narka fer Nonsante5 that prepared theae doeumanta, 1135, do you reckin that he 1t? .A. 5* nagidNN-Nhat ha_knaw5_MN5 Gang. pt unm IL 4?hu cm. UAVUNNL. uluw 10 11; IliI': 13 . 14% 15B IGIIC .17. 18 19' 20; 2rj_3 i . 3.5. 1 "d9 you I. submit: to you. why yea-Wm dew the.? that a;oxins MAC Tennis ?ocuaant; Youfv? Seen 1135 and it shows Chlorinated.phen?1 "IAjand it shows the tetrasg_and it shows the_d10xin3; so herkhewt It; (ii-dint; hIe: ?what he put on the document. Tablorinated phenOls, didn' he, 31:? .fax Anath?g, M??'Pazk2 Could You explain.that to.me? truth." ycu're llmited ta this accument, MI. Caxz. . Well; you 69 have an idea becauSe.you?ve seen I A. I can see the document. 0 gAnd he knew it, didn't he. sir? I A I guess the person that prepared the document kne?i Q- . And he knew that there was diox1n and in tk A. Maybe not for this purpase, Mr. Carr. How can you have truth for one purpose and a lie . - (By The truth is the'tzuth is theI_;. THE COURT: The objecticn is overruled. TEE WITNESS: I?ve been trying to explain why I (By Mr. Carr) I?ve been listening to your kalanatie Mt..Park. So far I haven' seen any reason, neg .8 {e IL 266 PENGAD- co.. BAYONNE. N.J. 0100: V10 . 12' .2 17 191f :61 . 21" ,2?4 was Aefined, 11 Aettain1y could be taken to be Aef1ned earlier to ine1ude A11 of the 1serrs 1n TODD. - everyday. and we discussed those the 1&11 year use these terms. year executives use these Iterma. seieatists wz111 scientific articles A3119 these terms. We?ve 9A1 1113 of them in eVidenAA._ Every witness that?s came as an 311 dewn there and say that terms that SigIet that right 16 say these wards that the scientists use isaze vague? Can you tell me that, $112 potentially preseAt Iin. your chlorina1eA phenols? Because all TCDD 's were not present. and that ter?A .. IHew on earth could you get that? IThis is too vague 10 acaeyt. _1 <2 Auyaguer' I A I I These are words that ycu yourself used in Aocument A01 in that wontext, we don?t. Mr. Carr. ya, I We discussed those the Ilast time you were here.I on stanA Aere ASAA these terms. Now, At. Park, Aseientists Ase. that Aha Aectozs use, the chemists Ase he Ideacribe certa1n 111ngs are vague? Where do you in tha law A TIes, because they re used by sameone e159 here.? .Q. They?z? used by ?N01.by'y911731111113111 1?31 YORMI- IL. I. PENGAD col; BAYONNE. NJ. 07002- *6 .10?6} '12 13 {14 I 6156166 16_' 166 is - 72ir' "'6316616666 make 6166?. 66 66 make a yro?itvor?te make a pr6duets.-mheyj6 5W6243f66have 666 funetion. 666.666 functi6n only. that?s 66 6666666 the 3163 prepared th16 666 ask1ng questions 66 the pecp1e that he I 3.66 6616661666, d1dn 6 he, 61:? . Q'fw?re several very capable attorneys with OSHA. Ehey 66616 . Away 66 resyonded., ypu h6d 66 66, M6. Park, because 653A 666 th6 responsibility f, ?66 tha safety and health 6f y6ur 66rk666.d666n't 16, 616? That's the anly resransibility, isn?t that right, 6162 filworkers that work thraughout the 11131666 866666. And yen don't 66n6166.6 that the pers6n that 6- thought 6666 scientists. he thought he was aadtessing questionT?. .AJI M6. Carr, th? p66son that ask?d me these questienf' I. ljftake 6V6: 66166166 6hat we made 6666 and use 16 ageing: us. 166666 th?y Wouldcareful, and be accurate in the Exa6tly right, 666 tha6 1 6 the point, 616. What 1 would say that M6nsanto is primarily 6666666161 6" I'm talking 66666 GEHA. I6 h66 1 66 6616 fun6616, 7 16?6 6616 obligation 16 to prot6gt th6 health and 66f66y of thQin 6:166? . That 6 6666666. 6N6t just 66.66666666; isn?t that 6666666? 6.2661 Ifwhat's 6666666. . "696: fThey :6 666 in it to make m6ney, they' re n66.16 16.5 3mm 01-Ho- 90.. wow ?11" ,101 lifji i; 137" 16? .1113.- .1 18' H~f23111: =so1e function. that is to proteat the hea1th 3nd" safety of A i,you1 warkers, weren?t they. 811? .AA AA speei?ic, M1. c111. Ahe1r so1e job in Ah 1s 1nstance to preAacA the health and Sa?ety of your workers: 13n3t that eotzect, 5112 same eitaAians which baa been issued. ivsafety cf yeu1 workers! 1sn' A that carreet. 3112 Ito a hearing board And determine whether at not you are-1?" u?prapezly proteet1ng Aha health and sa?ety 91 you; workers: werk?xs3 isn? A AA AA correct. 3112 .A The Occupational safety and A?ministzat10n3 .yes, 511. I I And when they submitted these question 3 to you, . H.Ahesa r?quests to admit; they were attempting to perform their -A A We1 1, these were Department of Lab?r aAAotnays, And they were working for OSHA. A They were representing ASHA with respect to Fa: yuzpose Af proteeting health And A Yes. . And in AhaA regard, 1 AhaA zespeet, they asked 'cartain questians at you so that they can present the evidencal is Ahat eorreet, $112 AAjr not totally. Mr. Carr. 1 is their inaction." Aha: was the 3w- ?134 IUKM IL 146 PENGAD CO.. BAYONNE. N.J. 10-?ogi ,21 . ;i3v .. -the sole and only function that they have: isn?t that right; ,sir? ?piotectinq the health an? safety of the workegs? I where the health and safety of the Workers might be jeapordize? 'from a?tarneys with the-Department of Labor, now.to OSHA insye?t?xs.. ?f?am lawyezS?tb investigators, ?9 scientists. They haVe one .39; and Q?e job only, that is to preheat the health and safety the workers; isn't that correat. sir? A Mr. Carr. 9 Whatothet ?nnctidn do thgy have other than A. $53: wasn?t the question you asked, caxr.? IQ VAS exactly the question I asked; I- No, it ?asn't. I 'In wh?tthey w?re deing here. they were ex?cutihg the mandate give? them by Congress,_signed by the Fragident, it's theirjoh ta go out intc the plant and diSeover areas Visn't that-eatteet. MI. Parkthat-~g ?.isnft that-their jab, 31:? 5 ?o-tpllow ya? _They'rg?di??er?nt. The entire 083A personnel; He?s new arguing with the witness. witn?s?falieady answered-the questian; aa*a.now grgning 4. 135' 1mm IL un_. l?leAU 1.0.. IMVONNL. QIUUI 10 1'14 121 13 i4:1? 15j22g,;1 . 2.3 _with the witness.- 1protect the health of workers. 9' is through 1ts employees, through its lawyers, through 1t - I 1 35' that sorrect, sir? Through the seoretaries, through ?theirsoientists, are performing the Congressional mandate of protecting th? 'health and safety of workers, aren 't they, s1r? u\?hl They are supporting OSHA on its" 'function, 1The 1aWye rs are supporting OSHA 1n?1ts:funct1on; A THE- CQURT: ?Objection is overruled. THE WITNESS: The function of the agency is to Qt (By Mr. Carr) And the way that agency functions scientists, through 1ts 1nvestigators, through 1ts 1nspectors3,, 'Yes.- Through the1r nurses. ?iA To be atourate, OSHA, I believe, does not -- 1t uses Department of Labor attorneys. '0 And theSe attorneys, when they" re representing 7 They' re Supporting OSHA. IC-THE hear your'anSWer.I I'm sorry (By Mr. arr) Mr. Par k, there are thousands and thousands 01f: employers in this oountry, aren't there, Sir? . Yes.," And OSHA is a finite, that is a limited there 0mm IL 145_ PINGID BAYONNE. NJ. 07001 11_\18. 19 do I 21 2: ,21.11 1-24-11 '-Eh1ngs EhaE Ehay W1.11 have EE1ngs._ subpoena secorda, dE as we d1d, dig these things ?20m Ehes+ Irecetas. 1E Yen aamiE Ehoae Eh1ngs, you know EhaE you 'and sp?nd Ehe1r manpewar more a??161ently on 0Eher Ehing.s. 1,.You knew you, Park? imptepex .onu don?t knew 1f yen 1f yEu Eam1EEed the EzuEh Of 1 ?Ehese things, Ehe.Eh1ngerhaE yea know Ea be true, Ehea Ehey .1 ?t it. . ate limits Ea Ehe1x?manpowet1111mits Ea their 1a?yeraynaEEn1E V. A ~H1?h limiEs. yes. 9 And you 1n Ehe manufacturing and, you are awazE li'_of Ehe ?aeE 1E yEu make 1E difficult eno?gh for OSHA and I E0 proVe Ehe1r case, it you will deny elemenEary,? can mEke 1E as difficult that they will wiEhdraw Ehe1r aomplaint abjeetiong' Enagfcalls for speeulg?EE THE EEUREE is eveEEuled. TEE WITNEES: NE, 1 Mr. cart. IQ. I (By Kr. Cart) =?Eu ?on?E know a_a0n'E have Ea prave 1E, do Ehey, 51:? If yen admit the truth 1- A. What Ehings,?Mr. Carr? 9 The Ehings EhaE they requested Eha you admiE EEx:fi FORM 2? 33PEN6AD NJ. 070025 10 11 1313 j4 33 3163-3 3-203 "323} 7yoquhraaed 11; Mt. Gatt; adm11 the truth ofI it. 81:. The whale 1dea. 1an 1 11. Mr. Winspeaters- Admit a fact. 31:? 3' 3.0.0933339 33prave 1t 1f yen admit 115 13n11 that r1gh1, 31:3 3314713f?an'1 they; 31:? - It's not c1ear what they requested. 3Q 3 Wou1d you d1rect the w1tnesa 1o answer my questier THE COURT: Mr. Park, yea have 10 answer 1he have to answer n93th?3 te.gna way .. Mr. Carr. lawyera normally reiy an their 1' 3.3Q3 . Isn't that the whol? 1aea;-sirz A That?s e?ntraxy Exeuse me. What 13 the gurpese 9:11 Requ151 It's 1a avo1d being required to prove 11 133] a Isn't that _exa111y What I askea you53?1t31 A. ,3 Ha, I think yen phrased it different, Mr. Carr. AQI It?s 16 avoid 10 prove 11. They don' have ta 3 3A- That?s right. 1Q. But if you deny 11: they then have to prove ith? 33 fPark. a: a Request to Admit a fact is 30 1t need 301 be praven3l "1":138 _3 . '3'9 - . (By Mr. Carr) They have 10 prove 11. 1? yen don't . I52. NJ. 01002 DORM IL I140 13:13 . A . 151 :17. 111 It 2:32: Athey have II analyze yIu I they have II Spend the "ImInths as we have spent here. they have II examine I 11133! prIvI Ihem? 7requests for aImisaions 1s Ivan part If OSHA regulatior 1?15'311 All they have II II 13 'Iv1olaI1In I: a standard? {?th?Y have II pIIve 1t. Ion?t Ith, s1I2 That's .735 Ana t9 PIOVG they have II II plant.5i '3'1th3Y have t0 geI Ihey have II aubpeena your 31 length, sea 11ke witnesses like ?Wdeny those things, they have II them, Ihen, thenyl? It all, Mr. Carr. 19 I They Ion' I have II prove them? I A1 II. This was highly Then dI?Ihey a against 1? this ian?I II what's 1n these My question, MI. PaIk "'lslA?; is II II 1n and prove thaI was 1' I my queinIn, MI. Park, if yIu don't admit it, . A XII. Wilson, w1tnesaas 11kI DI. who Ieny Ih1ngs, ?1.j1? Ith take thaI that's what they havI II do, 11 13"? . i Q. it thaythea have to subpoena ?he regards, d?n't they,_sirthey prove it withput subpbenaing the lrecord??" . 6' - . ?gcve_viplat10n?> They Show. say, a concentration: 7 Qf,39me_chemieal is ?bove 533A limitation in the work 8 place. That's how they do,it; No subpoenaing of.rec9rds at' ?all. I 19 5? . In arde: to fine Monsanto, how do they pr?v?v 11 these=things and make a wilful violatic?? It's a wilful violaticn_that they?re ttying to p?ove on you, isn't.it, Mg. Park?_ '14 A- Whi?h;v?olation are yak 15 Q- Mr; Park, you were cited not an accidental ronM' IL 24 a_ ?iolat1on GE the 933A tegulations, but to: th? deliberate wil??. 17 1. ful .18 . 4 MR. abjeat, your Hanot,.the referehee 19: L- tc,a11egati?na. That?s Request that it be .20_ the jury instructedth disregard it, and CaunSe;_ co.. a'Avonn'E. N.J.2 97002 21 I admonisha& an? in$tguet?? ta z?frain from :efezring to unyrovemy 22 3; unsubstantiated allegatians that were withdrawn. a TEE EQURT: Object*en is everzuled. It is a 4?2?4?f .?xager questien. It 1a a proper area ei inquiry: - 140 FORM 2? PENGAD co.. amount. N.J.A 01002 ,116?. 17 '18 19 520- .21, 22? 23"? .. ?3 >24: V'lma6? 66666666, 666:666661666 it 66 page ?66: or year.s6666?y~ 16f the 616661663, the 61666166 16 16 66166666. but I 666' 1 - have the 66666: in front 61 66 ?166: 666; 66 they not 666666:- I: 6666:66y,- Hz. Park. that you 6666 to prov6 that ygu had kn?w~ '16696, don'_t you, sir?] _things, that 1: that d19x1n 66666 61669 61th making, or potan*_ ?t1ally 66663 61666 with your chlerinate? ph66616, just 66 it "666 6666 666166 16 6616 6666, 666 6666 66 66616 66166 ?6666 ,5 '66116666 the 611661 666:66y d?n't you? 66:61 tryin6 66666666-66'166r666: 066. 7 [61666 that 6611666106, azanst 616?. ?666y'66 knew- -166 16.66 611661 and 6661666. 61:? . 6 6616 16 what 13 6616.? 96? And 66 9:666 666666166 16 611261, 6666 as an A I would 6nppo?6 so; 6 666 by denying that you had 666616666 66 these .6. lWe're no: 6666166 66 666166'3666'666666. Mtg: -Q By 66ny1ng the truth 66 things that yau know 66 66 6 ?666 y66' :6 sett 1ng yourself 66663 the 36666 of whether 'l6r 666 it?s 6 just ch6t66 6666 666:6 6:6 6666: 6666666 that 666 P). Ma. *?6611, in any 66666, you R666 66 prove wilful I 66 a 66166 16 that 6666666. 16-2. 110 12 13: ,14? 415 .16 "-17 ".19 21" '22 IE23 ?Kansanto to: punitive damages, Ehe whole 6 -- 4 manEha have ?b een Egan: nEw putting in evidence on pun1E1ve aamagea Ery1ng AEE grove Ehat yam had knowledge a1oxin was EheE E, and Eha? you E16 nathing about it. Yam did not Eel 1 year custamers. as OSHA charged - .ya? a?axe cf tha ?acE Eheze were wilful Enaxges. Ayen are-aware GE Ehe that Eh1f 7 A But; ?m Isn?t EhaE Eark? A - N90. ME. Park, just as 1h this EE Era-suing ai??'t tall the Pecyle at sturgeen. gYou didn.t tell your} MR. MUSGRAVE: Eb Ehe apg?ch End-E?quesE EhaE 1E be sEricken, your Humor. It has nothing Ea'dd wiEE this ansEiening. jEEy be instruched E0 The ?bje??ien 18.Ev?ttulad. grape: analagy. - 4 '7 (By ME. CaEr)? ME. :whet? Enawleage has PEEVEE in Eh? 6533 citaEianE juEE aa> cage anE1E1ng that we prewe knagledge EhaE.yau baa; isn't- sir? I A I?m zeally Ea?iliaz.with the in ?13- IL 24 a BAYONNE. 010021 10. .. .V 11 I. 12' ?13 15. 172-? 19 '20? 2r "22 ?3 under OSHA 13 br?ught for the purpose 6: punishing =that _66rrect?'_ 156' that what they' re try1ng t6 d6. punish .1 you f6: y6ur violations, for your wilful violations 6f th6 1&6? v161at16ns, w11?ul violations, and for accidental 66:61 .1696.se:1665 and noh~86316665 the 66rd ?wilful?, dian't they, sir? 1.1 1? You're-not aware of the fact that we are saing' for punitiVG-damages?' A I th1nk 1'6 aware 6f that. And 6 611561 charge 13 brought for the and A Any 6harge under OSHA is punishment f6! violation. A There' 3 different punishments for deiiberat6, . violations _where wilful isn' a part of it; 186' that gorre?t; 31:? A The term wilful 1s_just.not used that 6666. ms? 65? 1Q ?36636 me. Could-you'an366r my question, I'm not 66:6, My. Carr1 I Q, 'Well, you've used the word, y6ur?dacuments 666 A_f Mt; Aley used 16. ?Yesg. And You got.n6 did y6u; six? I I 6 61A 616 nat.y Thare was n6-v161a616n.6 '6 - the case, didn't th?y; ,14? IUHM .11. ?40 ?new 'nnvouNL. ML). 0700': ?Ii~f 17121?; "113 14? Wis 17 - 71.8 .19; . th1a7a??g, d1d they. sit? 1 71 01 giggin,,ai? Wat Responaant's giant 1n N*tro, West Vitg1n1a. You even Idenze? that. Wi?n?t yea, s12? was an industrial accident invelving ahlazinate? phenals. U_didn't yau, sir? ?waul? have 1% question the taxm 'chlarinated phenols'~' I'm to recollect why this would have bean denied._ 11 must }?have been.- 1 Yes. they 516. 3&11? whey aidn't subpeena your reeozas as we 611 1n 5 '?.7Af ?Waeli- [91) They didn?t take depositions af important axacuti- and chemlsta an? scientists and Er. Wilaon to prove the presen? ?15 Mt. Wank; yea even Weniad 1n hams request quastioAI'1? _an in?ustrial acciaenu invalving chlorinatea Qhenols oeautredfT 19% fair? I aidn't hear you: an?wer. The answer 15 yea.. you know that it did involve that there ,IggI I recall there waIsi an industrial accident. 1:51 Well. look at Exhibit 1543, la?k at tha s. thaty :1?numbez 54? d1dn't you, air, where they asked yea whether at natifl 11111 :59 . _rwm u. zoo wruom co.. anormn rm. 05001 '10? 12 .13 .14 15.12 16 Inf .- ?20 9?22- puts on there with regard to question 54, that it ,in volved 2, 4, 5- Trichloropheno1 processed as stated . We've- h_h ad studies dOne by Dr. Suskind in which he describe 3 it as a _for making TricthrOphenol, they're going to-Qann and make hit on the 2, 4, 5- -T, another product. ~WilSOn tells You that, ?and you knew that, and yet you denied it; isn't that correct, ISir?. .recollection; in the_position to say that I did'know? asking ab?ut Monsanto knew that they were making phenol in the accident Of 1949. TridhlorOPhena1:accident. IA ?Wilson says, think that-accidenti--?I 1Q .We know because-ne've seen the doCumentSQI A 9' Okay,. I Q, It was a Trichlorophenol'pr0cess; and the process A . I would have to -5_the way yOu phrase it,.I would have t0 answer no, Mr. Carr. - 'You didn't'deny it, or You didnft know it? A didn?t'know it, sir, - Sir? I would have to Say that to the best of my that, no. There were others inVOlVed here I'm not?talking about whether you knew it; I'mu' A*;h Mr. Carr, 1' assuming that if Monsanto had known .146: mum, IL ,14 a A BAYONNE. N.J-. may: :10 '12 :13 14 .515. 16? 17 18 19 ;2o 22> .23 MUSGRAVE: that?th?.cortect respenSe.to 54 was H-answered it differently. Wilson told you it was different.- A I have to assume it was answered correctly. 0 Wilson told yen in 1548 that it was -- There were others than WilBOn who provided infbg~llW .7mation that went into the response-here. .0. _Well, what other sit? A I cannot remember at.this time; MR. CARR: I have no further questionS'of this -f Witnessi-yeur Boner. THE COURT: Mr. Musgrave. MR. MUSGRAVE: Thank you,.yeur Hagar. '0 Mt. Park, while we' re on this very question, With?-Wl regard to the ultra questions that were asked, in these ReunSts far Admissions, and the responses.that-were giv?n MRg'anR: One moment. 'Did I offer'1549? It" ~nEeds ta.be offered into evidence. THE COURT: 1549? MR. CARR: 1549 and 1548. No. 1549. 1548 has been admitta? ijgjfi I .. . - ?3 .IL 248', hump amount. 1019.01 {7116 12, 1 16 ?f?ji, ?4'13_ 1.26 7 [2144- ;fL2244' u3_53; =g?f26kgvy-i MR. 1549 I'd l1ke 66 offer. MR. MUSCRAVE: The 6666 objection 66 t6 1548. THE 1549616 ?admitted Over objection. av (33*Mr- Muagrave) 46? 4. questioning 6n, I'a also like t6 refer y66 t6 admission -'well, Request f6: Admlsaion number 56 up there. D6 that Yes. .4 "[TAna 66kchlorinated phenol, ?,ana ?666 was denied. _Yes. . 1 ?And 46 y66 know why that 666 denied? A I assume because it's n6t fully 92trichlorophenol, 2 4 916 2, 4 trichlorephenloxia acetic acid. D6 y6u knew whether 9 what 6 commonly referred 66 as 2 4 the herbicide that is trichl?rcpn?nioxia a64616' D46616,'16766t a that r?3304? -142 1 Yesg'j 466k you, w1th regard to th16 question that Mr. Carr was just . 44"? 2 . PENGAO . 1'j2.2 Mr. Carr, which 13 2 4, S-T 661' xii?211222622 12Eii2; fMij?i?i: -3g&?165416?3? '211?i2211j? 15 72c6unsel? They didn ask2 about 2, 4 5~Trichlorophen61, they ?1LfVasked about chlorinated pheno1s which 14 2 4 trich1orophenel- question yet 66 that. Do y6u want 66 2'wa1h2 4.: Now do y6u Are y6u leadlng the witness, there,??57i7~ *X247Aren't y6u aware of the fact that 2th6 accxdent 615 not involve- MR. MUSGRAVE: I 6 referring t6 quest10n 50, CARR: The denIal 6 that would be proPeI.r MUSGRAVE: That's fine, 61:. Thank ydu. 1.661?? Mr. Carr, I hav?n' asked2 a CARR: Well. sure, 66 ahead. MR..MUSGRAVE. W611, thank y6u, siI.f" 2 4 S-Triehlorophenol is a chlorophenol to your knowledge232L 4 S-Trichlorophenol? qu OPPosed t6 2 4 I would 2thin2k 4. S-TCP w6uld b6f??1 A chlorophenol? MR2 But 54: t6 a?ny that is n6t .j?i (By MI. Musgzave) N6w, with regard to 54, 2142699; 5 f7 1419.. v'umav no.5 u-mw.n1._ 15.1. . '10- '115 11 13' 14- 15L 165? ?11 '18' 5 . . plant.? .19. - ,522'_ ?253': ~55155155555 ghenols are 1nv51ved 1n'th5-making of 25455-T?f' que?tion. questien 54 reads as 5511555 ~5 15 that right? '51nv5151ng chlarinated phenols occurr?? athespondents N15555 w; 2437 5?the5e,w555 serVedluyea-yaafby-the the 1 And 13 25 4 involved 15 the mak1ng 55 254555151 phenoxia herbicide? .A I'm so rry, I just dbn't know. --9 A You acn' know. 55 you know whether any other ?This 55585155 545 5553 it R?t sta?e, s1: 34? MR. to th? leading.formbof the?- COURT: 053555105 15 sustained. MR. MUSGRAVE: I s1mp1y ask1ng him 15 1t 55555'1_ 55555 scmething. . TEE Y5u'11 have to_raphrase it. -{Ry 55.;555g5555) Let me ask you whether 55 net 3) MR. CARR: $555. 97 (By Mr. musgrava) 1949, an 1ndu?trial 55515515 Yes5 15 5?55. Is the phanala plural there, 515? A-1 Yes. 95. New w1th 559555155 55535 Requests for Ad?issiens: . we VONM IL 149- FENGAD 60.. NJ. 07001 f10 --1119? 20..f 22 ?O?euFAHiOhal safety and Health -- or_aeHua11y I gu?ss repHe-1 the S?cz?Hary 0f Labor: is that Horre?Hl-e. l'extensive exper1en?e 1n OHHA matHars adv1sed us Hhia 1a the "comman pracH1ee 1n pleading of cases which go Hefeze the g' Q'Rev1aw Commission, when Requests 20: Adm1ssiens areH .Vsubm1tted, 12 they are net totally cerre?t, they re Henied-. ?And Hhen obligation back He Hhe ether Harty Ho rephrase than, resubmit Hhem if he so elects, or wHaHevat..' CQHe?ti?ngg That's cortect. . . 1?9 at the United States? 1AA I270 Wthwas represehuihg thaH cazr?ct?Yes. . And.eaeh q?eSHion they Asked yo? s?mHHh1ng.- A tea? Is that eexrech? A 1 That's HerreHH. why was 51:? A As an: eeuhsel whem we retained because HE his -Q This is a preceeding where OSHA 15 attempting an. em; 'objeet? He the? .l-eaaing form?Hf the . -ah@uH if Any part of it was not true; YHu.wHu1d H151: PUHM IL 248 CO.. BAYONNE. NJ. 07002 1.8 1119attempting to establish a viclation of an QSHA regulation - texm, Which you consi?er a vague term, do you have any way 1n 1 reaa1hg th1s document of knowing what they mean by a ter.m that' 'didn't hav?-any intention of-admitting beeaagg Objection 1s sustained.- Mr. M?sgrave) Is this proceeding where OSHA and phat a Eine71 AI '?2gs5 Is that what that was? Yes. I 91? I And in ccnnection with that, if they use a vague There' no way we could know what they meant.h 9' If you were ta admit to a term that you thought had one and they theuyht .had another meaning, could that have any adv arse consequences in this ptaceeding? 11A: 1 -It ?extaihly Gould; 1Q And in an_improge; fashion? A . - Where you might-admit scmething.thatgreglly yhu That' correct. 9'17 Now, Mr. Park, as opposed to the use of language in these ?ocuments, and these are lawyers, are they. air. that prepared this dogument? 4&3? FORM IL NJ. 01001 17, '?18 ?21 22 23 ?24 -l?be formad to get anzopriate answers? 'type attemgting-tb a?ert violation 6f -in this.type a: accument. Mr. East referred yqu to.Ehese they been kn What they?re halking ab??t? 'the tegm ?igxin.in cannectien analysis? .what he means by the term 'diaxin?? -a term that ethex'geepla.eould use ta mean not anly tetra?r~ ?hang? as ta ?hat @SBA.m19ht really be'saying High tha$e~ A. res; indeed: And knew of how-Reques?s fox.Admissibns should A A 2380 . - I. i I Bd?'as apposed to the use a: a do?ument ih this an OSHA segulatian'and a penalty, as appaaed ta language used IA deanmenzs-bere, that are - are that are gaing- tram bne Monsanto emplayee he'anather hans?nto emyloyee? Generally) yes. 0 Where the use A 80 ii Manganta analytie?l chemists-were_te use in_?a1king to another analytical enemist, do.you suppose that that other analytical chemist with.?ansahte might un?arstand A ?33? But an the ether hana,,sir; if dioxin is in fagt. ?hloraa1benza~para~aiaxin, but nitzatedAdiaxina -ido yea take- A153 '10. 11_21 attaKTTYa when they say d1exin_that they'rg sam@ ithing y?u are. ex do you deny it? A: No, we have to be mor? syeeifie; And. Park. this that Cat: eludQSj to abaut how or suggested to you that TERA withdrew this complaint be?aus? we den1ed these queatians -- d1d he suggest that to yougsit? Is that him t9 suggest? A I think at one point be 116. 1 1 . And becausa they didn't have enough manpower, somathing'like that, he talked abaut net having manPQwezg.o:7? 'didn't have_?neugh help te'ae thi?a A Reseutcea. 9" 1 How many 1awy?rs names AdmisSiehs? 'Thare are five lawyats names. ?Thre? lawYezs Tera Ig? ?work1ng very actively on the matter._ 9- They' we got Clause. the 8911c1to: oi Lahsr. whose Inama appears on this pleading. Hexman Grant; the_Reg1onal 'Selicitory whose name appears an th1s gleading, Steven E. I Walanka, an atterney, wheaa mama appears on this plead1ng on behalf of the plaintiff in eh1s ea ea. GSEA, James L. Bowers. anathe: autexaeyy aha then-G?tald a. M9193. They' we got Eive iggj 1-1 733?: ,4 aw IUNM H. l" PENGAD BAYONNE. NJ.. 01002 '10. I'll 239 .241, lawyers whose names appear an here. And you say thrge that_ you?r re aware of that were actively working on it. I Yes. Q. .'18 thAthight2' .A That's correct; The last three wer? quite active 'in wanking an this case. And when you first started working on this matter. 'were you handling it by yourself? A Yes.? And ?16 yau yearsel? hire this eutai?e counsel. ;Mz. Pellegrini: 13 that cerzect? .A- - Yes, I did. :And why was that, air? When I learned that three ea9ab1e attorneys Were in?this matter; I ?iguted-that I sh9u16 bring - retain sameane Wh?'22311y waszo a familiar with the" -OSHA 9?AGtice than wasg. An? Y??1hire? ME. Pellegxini?' A erss Q1 Ana th? first thing?hat happened was the {111399 ?f'this Request Admissiena by these OSHA Attarneys? (A, 9' That case pretty early. yes; 'g .. Ana aa these? -'_155 . EV, . i .10 n} "?12 13W 14 '15 1.164 17, .18'IWW?Wumber 33 is the Sturgeon 59111. Allzight. 1' Va the 111? one here.' WhiWh is it that I wanted to ref?r yWu "2?f'f - . . .iiWW' 24 Wiaclesed the presence of W1ox1n: (WW And Mr; Carr has game ova with you: is that - righu?? -- AI Yea. AWW 0f the :eWpoWaeW 1n here that Wt. yoW abWWt, W16 deW1 with the szpiW in queStien that I WSWA 3W1W their inspectara had Wound analyzed andihad W?level o? Tenn; 13W?t A :Yes, I beliaWe. .1 belieWW it's number 40. isn?t six? A- liYes. . . number 49 dues it not As ?911sts.*aesponden* *-ana1yzed the Wh?Wical referred to No. 33 for the prseWcW- dioxini (W) Wriex-Wo the Wt the-$3111. We the spill.? ?Is that_hewll? '11 A Yea, thAW We1ates to the sp111. A11 r.1ght. The chemical referred ta in Request Ate? A Rumba; 20. Whey. Thank yWu._ Yes. Number 25. Wees it not 'reaW WW ?911st: ?Respondent's aWalysis referred We in ET .155 FORM Iszaa PENGAD BAYONNE. 07002 330; *-'11r 13_ 14 15 ~16 17f -118 6? .691 26 .22.- 25? 6 24 7L .?with 6669666 66 Request that theta Was a 62263.- iamountg?is that eqttect? lnumb er 20 talks about a 59111 occurring on February 21. 1979: Ian6 236 666 237. ;shbsequant to the_clean?up; did it discl6se=thexpgesence_6? 2022622? L?t?s see; We?re at 24(5)? 1 ?Yes. Let's go back to Request numb?r 20. iS?thatv?orrect? That' a correct. A tank Car in the vic inity6 of Departments 236 ?6 Yes. And then Number 24 asks if Mgnsanta analyze? the chemical referred to in number 20, the cne we just talked about, VA ViYes.' . ?6 96:. \And We answered that we did, sub?eq??nt ta 663 'ele?n*336 - 3 . . I IA Yes. And then 25 Says_with regard to that analysis; ai?31?u: A . 2 And we said it did in-a trace amounts isn't that 6A I :?57 ?may .tup. um nut. vu. ?11le i3_2gS,allegatien br6ught by OSHA after y9u respon?ea t6 these, after 6 44,9:6 I 2261367f2 knew reViawed with 666i: Petsonnel a numbeI 6f matters. AAizd'f7Ah "62i?jf7I Al'?i?i'6t Q: One of the violati6ns 6I alleged violatians that was pursuing was that this spill material contained 26' 'Asufficient quantities of contaminants thAI were yatentially :96.harm?ul t6 th? w6rk6Is. 2_ 2AfIg I can't remember th6 exact citations wording. 2' A And in tesp6nse t6 these admissions, t6ld them.' VVAIithat w6 had found 6 trace level; is th?t Iight? A Yes. 929 7 And this was 666 6: th? first things that happens ?Sin this lawsuit? A I Yes. I In fact, did anything 6lse 666966 in this ,y6u t6ld than that 66; analysis h66 iound a tIaee amount? Well, there was $666 general things I remember. were canferences withtha OSHA lawyers. The lawyers: Did they request any samples 93 anything from yaupv I I can't recall 66y a?ditianal requests. 2 Bid they ask any interrogatories. written :AfIquationa that 66 had t6 write answers to2 anII.fpiafth?y 6666266266666666?666?_i9 +1 If] . ?a .4 7 FORM zl a BAYONNE. N.J. o1ooz~ *f.24-' -th@ugh? they had a sage; that they haa a vielatian of OSHA Did they ever say that they weren?t daing it_ because they didn?t have a big enough work st?ff. these fiVe" lawyers? A NO . Did they ever say that?they_werenit pursuing thia imattex?hacause they were vielating the very duty that Mr. Catr_ .says they have to protect the health'of w?rketS? A No. VThat.they were going t? ign??e that and mat pursue this matter?? A N0. 0? Did they ever say that t9 you? A I Did they ever giva y?u aha re?ults cf their a?alysis? . A No. Of this spill matarial?' 31:, 31& they? A I can't remember with clarity, but I don't ?5 I'm softy, I just don't tamember whether we receive? any a: n?te. Dedt you think; air; if they felt they had a #case; a sample of this spilled material, they claimed they had it; they put it in the paper, den?t_you think i?'they funny . ,rmaw to? autumn n.1, 01001 ,"195. 11? 212' . don?t that they weula .1 t6 gaggest that they vauldn't have? do?'t care abcut d?ing their job.?and their in fallowing u9? g?l?y 1 Via: the 1aat two or three minut?s have been leading and - -auggest1ve. and argumentative, an& I object to them, and ask Ithat counsei net 69 it anymare. _.b?en eb3ectea ta up ta this point, but you will have to 4 ";repnxase future questions. "3221;;1; A . Yes-.- Kas_?za Ear: Shaved you10ng-piece Of evidence? Q1. 1 That these give gentlemen axe just fair?doewell 5' le. OT donit have the TA 7? Right. 1Did'he tell yam that he?s braught.one TE evi?anee,1n th1SLTouxaxaem to sabstantiate that suggestion; si?l .A- 1 CARR: Your Haunt. I?m prone to intertuytf'?" Ceunae1 has been'gaing on far sometime. All of these questicns THE c0332: They have b??n 1eaa1ng. They'havenitv; (By M1. Musgrave) Let?s talk-sang maxeTabou?g;' IUHM u'u .RERGID cox. amount. 01001 116j.1 _12 13? I 14: 1161.7 17} 11118-1' (jg. :?120 1:2211?1 111123j: . 24 I these requests, Mr. Park, just a bit.v Referting you to] 'request;11, wftecall he aeked you about 12. . after referred to as TCDD, refers to 22 potential iSomers.. A A. 9? that was in quote before, does it'not? .A (A doeSQit_?efer to it there in as_being 22 potential isomers?_ .A ;Yes. Yes; Used 1n the Singu1ar, a compound. 1 2 and 13 that Mr. Carr asked you about. ?You111,'1 'Yes. And why that was denied. 'That the term tetxachlorodlbenzo-p-diOXin, herein?, Yes.A That was denied. Yes. Now. the very next questiOn uses the same term, econz. that q?estion, that ms. ZWhat~d0es it refer to-as TODD, As.a Compound._. a compound, 2' 1; 3141 ,51, .6- 1? 5 :85 .93 433 .1133 1111,7 5 153' g} .7716,1, ?3 71-325373 that dioxin refers to 75 different cempounds; is that tight? ?1100mdv '7lte diexin as being 75 diffezent compounds, 15 that right? nudiexln, we just talked about that; isn _that right? 1A Yes. 1Q. 3 And, 51 r. referring yen to the ene immediately 1 That? 3 correct. Now, do yeu reaa1.1 Mr. Cert asking you a question. 1_about there be1ng 75 iSomere of chlaredxbenzo-para-dioxins? A I th ink there was a question aleng those 1ines. Q. He said Some peo31e say 75, some peep1e say 72. but 75risemegs has generally.been'talked akeut in this court-; That's right. - 0f the ehlero?iben20*para?aiexin? 1 Yea.. 'Is that right? A AYes. 50 up in 11 the OSHA lawyers are now re?erring A That's what the statement 53y ?bere.e' - And there Are 75 isomers of chlorodibenze-paxa~ Ye?e 1. Q3 . So theSe three questions put together. ceuld they, f'did they ezeate confusion as he 3ust what the heck the governm1nt' - - - . 152 ?g1in front ef that, request number 11, u3 ther 1: xeiete to 75 1 form .z_c a .14. co.. auduuz. 07002 xI wanted 99 know here? 922.99. itib??t031629 I-ns7 _f ??*f?fli?f9r, II?on'tgthey? ?ib171=??m??undst and in 13 th?Y 9 9 saying TCDD 19 a t9x1c compound; 11f437-1sn't that right? 1,9,999919 9f grains af 3319 texic 1f yea eat 19? .f1n YoDr mind wh?n you?- 99 about toxicity oIf diffetent ?9j?iflj-compoun?s5 99 toxicity 9f the same compoun?s, even 2 35 7 58q59 ;,9ne part -per quatrillion as 9pp939d to a 91939 9f 19? Or what th?y said they were saying? a Yes, they Idid. I I In 12 they TCDD 1s 22 19999:$ 5 ;or 22 comp9unc . Or- up in 115 Itihey say that they re d1?ferent That's correct. IT QI 4 Toxicity5 sir, 1 9 t9 y9ur way 9fIth1nk1ng a anuat? 99195I99 y999"khowl?dg? 9991 9AI I IYI9s. I17QLII Is 9hege the same distinction to be mad?5 91:5 2 1932 Yes5 I 9919K that applies 99 everything. ?2 919 the government, and lawyers.v 19 any 9f these Ilsf.11I? II because they say that 9he isbmers in 12 are different compoundJB.39j a- .DD Form TIL 24 3? om. 01002 .ioj w' '14- I .171..- . 1?9 ?Jngo; \11125 1:12am?fgfy "lrtexicitr? 1:9; e_ Ay~ Q1 .IDA: iby?grodu?t;f zszankly cann?ewre?ali my own-#111. "quest1ons when they talked about toxicity, g1ve you level at; ff1'a d?ae somebody was exposed to g?t 1' 10.. whether it was 'Ana 11 you weuld have answered 13 that TCDD 1 3 Ltox1c compound in the affirmative, would that mean or could ED?that Dean construed by the government lawyers Day level of TCDD is toxic? I th1nk 1t could have. Did that have to Do. 31;, w1th the TreaDDns that you Denied some o1 these answers? I'm sure 1t di?. . Or questicns that were raquested that dealt with Yes. NDW, Mr. Park, Dr. W1lson wrote some memos akaut f. and what he thaught by~product st; 15 Did you Dgze? er Disagree with thos?, or- d9 yDu mun IL 141 PENGAKL NJ. 07902_ [m 11' _11. .14f7' 7?15 18" ?,194 '7.:1o "21 hafoi?r.1se the term dibenzo-p?diexin, like in number 7? h.pr19ating this document w?re aistinguish1ng betw?en a by?pradus ?and a contaminant? 7911 that term in. 7 by?produ?1 in numbe:.8. didn't they? 7:.1alked about dioxin there; that they 111111 abau1 it-aa a- contaminant? _talking about dioxin again ana 1113 called 11 a contaminant ho: a by-pxaduct? . '11 was denied that the manufacturing p10cess.df certain '71s dioxins; r1ght? .a D. you know whether the government laHYers in 1 I don' know what 1h? governmen1 mean1 when they Well, they talked ab011 d1oxin or 7 A I Yes 1 Did you notice in number 46, 81:, that when they A 1989 I Did You netiee 1111 in 47, sir, they staggea :f '7 .Yes. I -07 'b'And, sit: with regapd to this 46i that's whe11? contained the following contam1nants. the first thing they say- A. Yes. New in other places in this doeument 19 they net- 'chlorinated phenols praduced at the Krimmrich Plant potentially That Garrect. . A I And Aadn' you previously denied that the terA dioxin re?exzed . ,A?l1. [1 1' 1.. THE CDURT: Mr. Musgrave. rephrase the question. ,15 The 1ast three. at 1east, have been 1eAd1ng, and I told you fA_ to rephrase tAe 1eading questions. 0? so immediately. 3.7.31 (By Mr. Musg:&ve) NuAbe; 11. six, what does that 17' TIA fTAe't?rm diokin refers ?0 75 different com133?a$111 j'OAIB-Vdepehdent ApdA the location of the chi?rin? atoms within-thev- . molecular structure. I I 1A?au were requested ta admit that? "3I,f, tTAat?s right. 714- IDid you a?mit on deny it? '15; ~We denied 1t . rc>'2Ti'i3 31?? FORM IL 2? 'And did you give an exp1anat1on as to why you ?17f,,"den1ed it?. 1.8 A I - 19 pagdon'meg.sir? ?;20 o. '3 2 U. . 'zrf I, I think yeu might look at your answer. 81:. A a A satry. I?m sarry.- I WAS leaking at the Tron? 9191 we ?i??exyla1A-thatgA . AM 911211 was the exp1anatian? . 1.6-6 35>. IUNM IL ll 120.. UAVONNL NJ. . 10' >211 12 13 14_" 15. "16? 17V 418? .19' .'20 21 .22 23 . [124- V1, 6? in that any place the wozd ?wilful" or "deliberate.- A saideioxin Iofers to a broad class 96 compoungs- estimated to exceed 10, 000 in number._ A11 right. And so you doniod it. A I Yea. I . And so back in 46, six, 616 the response that you . gav? in 11 have anything to do, with your denial of 461a1 ?that is that certain chlorinated phenols pIoduced at the plant' lthe KrummIich Plant, contained potentiaL contaminants such a ?1 quote, ?ioXin, close quot?? 01V And did Mr. Show you any documents here, - with :69&1& to the denial Of 46(b), and 616 he show you any documents hoIo where any of those chlorophenols ohown to I G?ntain a1; 22 I, ?f the T093 isooers? 5 ?Al yoNo.V. I I And does 46(b) Specify which isomer it?stalking_ I yabout when it'says-TCDD? 11-11 impli?s 22, all of th?m. And handing you what' 8 boon previously marke? as .Plaintiff?s rial Exhibit 1119, which is the OSHA citations, 51:. 1?6 11ko you to read through that and tell me if you sea./ 1 ??5157, AIL 121?s FORM union!) co.. anounz. NJ. 01002 LiofEV . 711 '13. 141 ?i151_.' page documenE c.03E31n the wards 13:33: . 2013*; ?E32133?;333?nment aescribing Eh3 alleged allegations? VEPht?se or term H.31Eh3r ong, or both, or do you know? 'EUEaken 33 be sexiousl.? 7 agd333n pages at 1333E of EhaE.h3ve the ?1v 3, 313, sev?n, eight pages 33 the 033, two 3f 3331333?- EA I 63 333 right at the top of the Q. Anyplace'else, sir?? A1 Nowhere 3133.- Do you know wheth3z EhaE wilful/serious 33333 A: I think it means 31 the: 333, 3nd a generally MR. CARR: Counsei,- 39 We d?n'E have E3 go throng! th13 on tecros3, why 603' you pd1nE 33E Eh333' 3 3 E315 33.-333333331 3311331/3331333? CARR: EYEE. WITNESS: ?33. Y3u 331d nowhere 3133. 033, two, Ehre?g' Qi And that 1 3 3 wilful-slash? A. 3 Ana 13 1E conta1n?d anywhera 1n the h3?y o: Ehe I 33n1E think 33. 13,68 IL ?may up. umme. wuw Inj ?12 ,lns?f 6'16 17 78 jg '20' 6 i1 - '.23 the :69; is that I . Q. I Mr. Park, yeuI? saw Mr. -- Hr. Cat: asked YauI -AA-a36ut tha one Request for AdmiSSion about the'~? whether we Shad analyzed orthochIOPOphenol. Do you recall that7 A 388. And he showed yea the Dr. Wilson memo where he 't?lked'Abeut'analyzing eithechiaxcphenol7. I Ajv I 268. . Have you Aver h?adia? oithoehlechh?nal Yes. 3% you knew whetheP there 6 a distinction betwea .Vextheahlorophenol. th? product, an? orthochlozophenel crude. preduat7 I think there' a a distinction . Q-f Let me show yen Plaintiff?s Trial Exhibit 7138, 6 3 well As Plalntiff's Trial Exhibit 1135, it was marked twice,- it?s alas a memo by Dr.Wllson that Mr. Carr put in t6 evidence. A is Yes. And does Dr. Wilson in there refer to these sama "~analysea that were done in '78 that were reference& in the . . ,other exhibit he shaved you where he talked about the 6Pth6~ [i [V?m UIUVJ. ?vmuu- you have that, sir7' 12f7": 631f3'66 d66663' This is on page 2 6f exhibit. 333635 {3.1831- ?636163 ':24?f1' 'hiYchloxophenol? . ?UjjAgI? He ca1 1s 3these samples OCP crude. P6PAQI A. Do Yea whether he knew 6r understood at the 366Y6 :A?time he wrete these memos possiblY th? distinction between I-6VLY and crude? A A I would think he should kn6w the dmfferen66.3621?9' Park, Carr al$6 showed yea, I believe 12333 7 4Y6a6 Plaintiff's 15 43. This was pxepareaness question and I If ?answer on 63011 sampling tha was prepared bY Sarah Collins. A I 3 Yes} I (330* 53g' And he asked yen. -ab6ut ?t3he finding 6? level 6f 66 . dioxin in one 65 the locations there in the sampling that Yes. .?6216 And y6u recall that Ahe3 asked you a questian f66**" "Wabout question 8 pardon me, question 6 and answer ?1696 you have that? VA Yes-o3 Abqut what Mensanto was going to ao~about the >93p6tential.exposure.? gA 3 Yes. 4 A66 it was in?ieated'tBAA the I we uu runm H. PENGAD BKVONNK. Ulovul jo :12 . .13 'v14, 2135 '16 1. .171' 18: 21191- 20. ?1 21 V. 221' ;23i A ?Yesa' gQ~ 1'What does question 7 and answer 7, the ones ?1 immediately next to it, what do those read, 31:? Question 7 says. ?Are you aving the lot just because of the didxin Answer, ?No. We planned to extend 3 parking lot pr1or to the sampling program.? And question 6, would you rea? thati sir. A11- Question 6, "Don't You conSider the_one near the, .fenoe area a health hazard??1 And the answer to that. A 1 ~The answer reads, ?No, The dioxin was detaegg?, couple_ of inches below the surface in an area where there 1_has been a 1OW potential for exposure, and w1th the parking "1wt extension this area w111 be paved over, e11m1nat1ng any {expos Qj u?wg Sarah Collins; air, the author of this, '-do you know with Monsanto? No, I don't Several years ago. i 1 1Do-you know whether she was ?mployed in 1979? '1'1 frankly ?on' rememb?r. 1 'xNow,' in question 19, it is aske?, 1s it'not,'six,1 "Baa you ever tested for TCDD before now?" Y336 19? _And would you read the an$wex to us. 133' 7 1;19]' g? 12 -?Wj4. 'gjs?vi 5_17 5} to 1979 i? the sample testing fer the last ceuple e? yeaerWiCj- ;Tture in the chlor0phenol units and their control areas. 'j['yeu thet had one fxnding 9? a contaminant 1h Department 232? - ?131(t_1g? sit? Iteken at thfe Krummrich Plant 1n the interim. between Jun ef been referring te when she 3ei1 ?We tested for TCDD by taking 1_Wipe samples?? a1- The answer rea?e. "We have tested for TCDD by 7 .-tak1ng Wip samples and fauna it not to be present. In taking'3 V'T'the Wipe samples, we tested the surface e? equipment and furniwf. Do you knoW whether Sarah Coll1ns was familiar .A I den ?t know. .97 That Was eeme foe; and half years earlier, ?That's correct; W;Fromev this chument ?ated November at 1983.' 19" yee know, 31:, Whether any Wipe samples were 3'79 and Nevemher 9f '83 When Saxah Collins prepared this memoTj5 I I hi nk there Were a number 0f Wipe samples taken.; ?uAf- She prehably referring te seme more recent in 'LhWith that June, 1979 Wiye Sample exhlbit that Mr. Carr showed 91? Do You kan which results Sarah might have, ',3191 De You think; sir. she would have gone all the ?53.2-12- IL . . ?new NJ. Ao?woa g6131j_6. 17 I \311964 6,6611366t this time. We w1 11 rgsume again Monday 66 9:00. 1111?: remind you, healdes the regular admonishments over any break, "1123'f??hat You :6 not t6 2666: 113333 39 93 ?at?h anything abOUt this-; ?336336113636 in partiaular. 6: subject matter 16 general in any 6f gheiJ?""' -and the objectlon W111 be sustainea. '197h6d shown that there were no findings 6f TCDD 1n w1p6 samples? f? I ink it's qui6e pOSSIble she might have ig;back just a few y6ara.v aha found that none had he6n detected,3r" ?iand then stopped. Your 3660:; I bbjegt t9 this 35 $323 . . 1?71' MR. MUSGRAVE: Well, your onpr, h6 asking 1:331 CARR: Ahd. Counsel knaws it. MR. MUSGRAVE: He' 3 ask6d the witness to 5peculate"_r61 I th1nk th1s is juSt as clearly admIssible speculation 66 to what a asked the witness 66 -:;speculate abeut. tien. It?s my opinion that they haven 6 been speculation. particular question that.y6u re talking about 13 speculatinn, ,after four, 66 w6 'll tarmznate for the day at this.11 Ipoint in t1me.; Ladies and gentleman, we will adjourn fer the day.[6 I want 66 77 TME COURT: You m6?6 the objectian as 66 zrhey v6 666a prayer questiens. This witnass 16 a lawyer._ This 3" 1 I 566 it? a couple Mlnueaa:,l- enema. N.J. .0700; run?m {L?zau PENGAD 107. .13 'j4'22 23, vmedia; er?ei?ctren1?w_5rhankyou fat~y9uk attenti?n?a?d'v -qoop?r?ti0h.' HaVe.afggod.weekend; .Wa?11.?ea ycuch M?nday?v gdjeuzn?d.) may? a . j?mqao'cb? hlvou?zg NJ. 91001 vFill-.1125f 9*5215?*11? STATE OF ILLINOIS CIRCUIT 55; ACCRCOUNTY 0F ST. CLRIR I, Kathleen Watson Brunsmann, one of the Offlcial Court If a true aRd correct copy Rf saia August 12, Kath1een WatsoR Brunsmann, CSR, official CRurt Reporter 'RuReporters, -do hereby certify that the foregOIng ,runnf IL. ?24 a I I 9,001 ?new con ?mung. km, 1 l3 Ffj?fw? 7 1.25. Wff?23333 JUDICIAL CIRCUIT -, j] iss,? hereby that Che foregoing ie a Crue and ?7 correct Copy of Said transcript. STATE OF ILL INOI .Q RICHARD GOLDENHERSH, Circuit Judge: do 1985. RICHARD P. GOLDENHERSH, CIRCUIT JUDGE \x Agony .1121"f. ,23. Aychs A. AA 31THE CIRCUIT Conn: - . 1 JUDICIAL 0A ILLIAGI A .1 ST. CLAIA ceuAAY . Plaintiffs, V8. A0. so-Les7o, Defendant. A AA HON. P. JAdgA'.j" JUAA TRIAL A Angus: s. 1985 . Appeared on Bahalf of tha P1a1nt1?fs AA. A. AASGAAVA and AA. JOAAPA AA Appeared on Bahalf of tha Defendang - OfficAal?Cournv?nporgar .10 Vll.? '12 ?13 "4.V1?1ainciff?? 1.5, . .j .177 .218 1:1.19 .H 23C11?igin?1?fi' 2? Celggification.. PARK Rs?ross Examin?tidu Reclarifieacion . Cross Examination iiainciff?' :CPiain?iffa:* Plai?tiffs? _,?1atntiffs? 16 1 P-ihinti ifs 121a1nt1??ai ?'2111n11gra' Ziil?y1ginsitzgi v.;21: ?1?1hg1??s* Re. '30. H6. no; N01 Ra. me; -No. so.- 1550'. 1551 . :1552 . 15521' 1553 . 1554_. 1247A. 15559. 15565.. .1557 1557A i C. 1393;. land cC. 1111301513039 . '-84 1 91 91 L. . 116 156' ., 165' . 133 . 1337_ ?26 '12 .151 '59] 69 C. C85 1117:.- 157 1' I 11631? f_189 1 PENGAD- 01002 IL 243' V101 S111 j2_L 13jV VIA- V.9is V-16 '_17 .1 I 18.: AV1191 121 121_ 23? I 24, .SJud1c1a1 days of :h1s Court. uh: matter as herainbofora act --?orch cam& on for hearing before the ROS. RICHARD REESE C1rcu1t Judga 1n and for the Twunticth?Jud1cial C1rcu1t,Y '_NCSta:e 01 1111nois . 8t. C131: County Bu11d1ng. Ballaville. 1 ;Cla1r County. 1111no1s, and tha follow1ng was had of record. Ftoewit:?V 'rasum1ng tho w1tnoss stand. hav1ng bean prov1ous1y sworn. ?5121131? further as follows: I BY MR. talking about the Raquescs for Adm1sa1on and ansanta? Raspons+? '12: "quasc1ona anon: than. Haw. guast1ons or requests, 1f yen W111. Ate a6m1: carta1n facts w1th regard to the Sturgobn spill BE 11 azazmssagn Ann that heretofore, on m-wit' ngnday, August 5,1985.ba1ng one of the $083132 i PHOCIOH PARK, CIARIPICATIQH HL PArk. I be1 1ave we recessed Friday. we war: A 1n connect1on-w1th?thac EPA proceeding'thac was ultimatgiy A. 1 -JPardon?- . A 0331;; I excuse me, yes. I want ask you'a'?6up1?ant?: . PINGAD C0.. BAVONNE. NJ. 0100! IL 140 "3124.]f far Adm1saion AA. 33 AA gnauads that wh1ch Any havn?f? A-ocAuAr1Ag 1A posed in . 51:? YAA. AhAy vArA. Q'f And ware whAA numbAtA whArA thiYAA 'tAuAhAd upAn AubjAcA? A IA Quasaions RA. 33. And AhAn Atheraaftcr. 34. 35. 36. 37 38. 39.40,1 1: 1Aoks like carries on AA 41 Q.- 111mm. I . I A 1A.. And All dAAl w1Ah tho of thA Sturgeon .Ap111 occurring in January of 19797 I Yes. VI And what?was Aha Af Aha OSHA invuatigation at KrummriAh f36111t?7 1 that FAbruAty. .Q All ughgy Of '79. Now, with regard no first Af quAstioAs IdAA11ng,91Ah Sturgeon A 9111 whaA responsA 1' A The reApondAnA -- Ah1ch was . objects AA comp1a1nant A - wh1 ch OSHA Esquest co.. snows. NJ. 01001 ronM?n. 1.89 - 810 8 14 '15 17' '18. 88'19': 1-1;;26 . - 22 .123 . 7 ,oceurrAd AwAy fram rcapoudan: a premises and a: A and 91A?d1.' bAyoAA ocbpo of pleadings Acrotn and 'deA1a A _the8 'dAaliA with tha Sturgoon sp111 as 0990331 to OSHA 1AspAct1aA; ?"thosa8 -- than that type of quast1on dAA11Agfw1th the Sturgeon was AAVA the: 11sagracmoni, 8 I I 8? jutisdict1nn. but 988A Alacted to 1A1: 1ssue.8 1c cAuld AAVA ba?bra the Adm1nistrat1vu law judge and.raisAd 1AsuA, arguad 901At. Carta1A1y if 1: to go 8 w1tA?Ases 9: brought on its awn w1tnassas Ar Ahazavnr. froA the and A1tAt1oA her?1n are 8Q Okay. W1eh regard to tha tambiAdo: Af thus. was tA8? saAA objaat1on. 1?.you.w111 1AcorpAratcd by rAferAAcA_ and remade 1A the sums fAshioA? A YAA. 1: was. And if OSHA didn' agras with Abnsanto' 8 poai?ioA - 'spill was and not an Appropriata quAstiAA to be Askcd- 1A conneetiAA with 953A compla1nt and the OSEA A87 0A. yes. I: was our viav-thne :h1s was clearly'bayon+ ivthxough Aanr1Ag AA thiA Aattor, 1A cauld AAVA 8 There A of 1: cauld have hAd 1: so 8983A hawA had the issue A of BAYONNE. N.J. 07002 IFORM-IL 24! Tie ["111 11 A >13( 149_7 151 ?16' )7 1 18 19 211' 22;. .?23r .1624; .?quuga1 was prepariy ohjactod 1o or no: dotorminad b.1911 the 'hoar1ng? A I administrative law judga? .1ak1 1h: 11911 up? - P111111f?s 1542. .99 you hava that, 31:2,. 1fw11L a taper: an a d1scuss1on eonfarcnce w1zh Roy M1lane1 at -11h1 Postobispatch about 610111111 the chlarophanol 1111 11 11a xExummrich Plant. 1sn.'1 1hat 1011111. 11:? fwas specifically 101d in the 311111 31111111. 6919 11 raflac: ~1f1111 that: was 1111: 11311311111 or ochat questions 11111115? A: Had 11 so alccted. 91d 11 ovum baths: to 1111 up than 1ssuaL 1111 111 13111? H0. in our V111 11 was clearly b1 yond 51111?3 311 did any lawyer evan bother 10 I A Ho. they d1d not. 9Q Row; Hr. Park, Mr. car: asked you son. q11811ona about. A: Ha. I den' 1. 1 -Q 1'fThat 18 1 1111 11116 June 611. 1979 6111113 w11h a A A at: a June 91h.1979. TQ. .Pardon me. Juan 9 1979 and 1h11 deals w1ch. if you . 9' Md 4113 11 1111111 that 01h11?1han what the r?poiter? PENGAO C0.. BAYONNE. NJ. 20700! FORM IL 2?8 10. it 13' 14_fVgenara11y d1ox1n at 222 chloropheno1 plan2? 'Vanswared .o_r 22222 qua?2ionsiohviously'anaw?tad 12 2022022102. Iz?dth 221s 2222123?2122 Roy 221022 or 2213 ganvarsatien w122 12S_?Pby 221222 abauz dioxin a: the 221922922201 2212 a: 222 KxummriahV vV'ropor2cd 222 rapartar spoc1?1cally 2211 2222 our analys1s ?Vof a recent product sample 11d 202 12112222 the 92232222 02 . 2, 3 7, 8 dioxin; m. Cart was 3202123 you, 1 22112122. 222 2232122 ?22202 sown 3329123 2222 were 222226 and 22992221 12 Plaintiff: '2?1135. Do you.2awn Pla1n2tffs' 1135 222:2? Y2a. And does 12 1nd1c?2? how'many other 22232102: were or wha2 229 20212 bf 22990 Quas21ona ware 02222 2222 A. No. 222 typa and.numb2r of the quast1ons 19 not indicated.- 2 12.donu Say a I.nnmb?t of quast1ons though dogs 1: 2022? A - 1.2.. So that: ?are 22222-222222! cbvi?usly That?s correct. new.rwizh 223221 to 22:2 aacond sun2anen where 12 13 ;11352. 222 222122 229222, 212. Okay.-V . 1?0? 07001 NE. NJ. PENGAD c0? unvon '16- 11',7 - IS '26 1227 Wou1d you turn to Page 7. 812 62 Plaintiffs 1135 wharf .11 e~ Hat parachlorophuno1 Lo: $102-$021 T?ha: parachloroyhennl what data that 10: was produco?? Atho 2 wanld mnan Fibruaty. 5.10: w0u1d havu been produced in Tobruary 01 '792 ,tioh.'youx abnor. it?li". 1: . ?aw, he no a sample wh1ch was 1dant1?13d as M3654 1s 1deuc1f1e?. Yes. I have Yes. And what 13 1: 1dcntif1ad An. s1r? - A The descr1pt10n on samplc 13ba1 column says can: 1: 1 Q11 Are yen aware of tha fact. lit, that 0b5ect10n to ch: 1111133 farm of tho qu?sQ THE COURT: ObJaction austainad. no yaukaow; air. when the 19: number asaigncd ta 1 believa that the manna 197-9- Hana I be11eva that Q1 A11 r1ghc. And 15 that bnl1e-?_ 18 corract. than thA: A, That' aorrect.. And. at coursa. again 9? E21 6111: Objecc1on no the 1oad1ng_ farm of an: quas-{ - 135.11u11: Objection susca1ned.' ya again. 31:; what 11 'szII? '9123 33.3333; ?122: :3 . . 292w 92 53332196 5916393 39 3339 3 33333 93m; 30 333333 3 33 -I 222223 22' 31.61 2; 3uop 3333 3333 33333 3333 333.3 3333:5335 91mm 333333 21:23 35339 3333 393 no - f?oz, 6 61922213936 am 31699" "33213 11333 on 33 3333 "92$ ?16229 1219222222 2222 92 22 2I2I222 3309-3313 '92393921 3ntn?taxngqu3 3; png'23q?g; IIVI In . 633:49 2? I I ?9369? 9! 22013 ?2229225 222812}; gen 7? 3 3232136 55 99333 313363365339252 33933 IV. LI: 3. IINI6 2991K 7 h, 22-'9692? 22 ?uxoquna?Vos 333'96992 922222142 .222 i 1:6 .I 35 333333935 3'5 pus ?69321 31m; 1 ?03gen .299I22I2I3 2: 2222 m; 295 222 191222 292 9 I 333 913339 on 99333393 0913 3333 '33 ?339 pug.. 5'19' 59" 239331 333303 3333 0309 03 ptnoa,3tq3 ?3333 jv: 63: . . ?1.19: 3? Kim-1223 6 2221? 3? 22V: 2? ?225 333: 93339 2; 3333330303 53333 99334 3333' ?vvf 322932 '22 2222 22I222222222 222 33 33 239': 2223222 222222I2I2 I i 92: 1 wuo; 30010 ?JuudAva avouma. - auqunz. n.1, o1ooz roam lL'Zla.24. _fpraAAd the 1AA numbgr das1gnne1on3 'dana of Ab; w1ch Roy of the Peat-Dispatch? A sample asj1n A11 right. 4 A A291. And that 1A-c1Aar1y March 1.1979 So not only thA 10 numbir 1nd1?aces that. but 1A thiA particu1A: uh cy Avun hawk thA 6AA: there? Yes. - And that dons with tho way ynu' vs 1nter- A YAA. 1ai?areh btforA Ar Aitar would bu Aomh tthA month: 9:10: to this prass - How. 31:. 6 11k. to discs: your actantinn ta . A3703 Plaintiffs Exam: 1135. A YAs: ybu tell us whnt'?hA: pra?uct.1a ?r'What that. A It' A deAcr1b?d A: PCS oxcuaa we. PCP prnduct cut: And do you know what PCP Assad: for? A. Pantachlorophenol. 9Q . Wbra you.mAk1ng punta in 1979 in ?bnaanto. A122 A I m?sorty. I just Am?n0: auxa. ?aws you ova: hAArd of pArA ma: Just?: A few: in: 2632 stands m; r! 3? 31's- ?mop' #6 31am? pav 3 ,13335 .3 03 33133 333333 333 33033 sq 5133991393 3333 '395'. V. I333 5551 '5 3335 33 333313 3333 i1 ?3303.3333 81 '335 . 3.2 9 3 ?56! ?11 11:53: 3333: can 314m: 931 3V ?118?535 53 31d3ss 3333 39 5355 933 ?1 3?33 pug .8381. v. - 33 an 333 3333335 933 5.5 33331331 snap 8133 ?535 Lb 93333 333 393E '533?s~3 1 -,5451 31 33336 331333 833.33339335 03 - 33393.535 9333331 333 3333 330533 53: 303 319 1 '53; 13" 333 9911339 3333 31'333; 933: 335 3131333 3013d sq; .b *835 531 3 39333 '595 3333331 333 9335 an: 3333 9135 '34 xmwdommarnd 8598 we ?1135 9353193314 ?33 5315 ?33 pap311u 3333 ?33 3333 3315338 353 33333 33033 81, 53333333 '30133315133331 1 531 3.3319 '1330353331333336 ?1 '31: ?3333 338 11,335 31 ?3339 ?33 '13usqdi -3331333325'33333 31 '595 333d33331 03 3533 3 3119 33_ 910333533013333333 333 33333 a 535 331539 33 5 33; sp?nas 333q3 5?5 559 no 9133 near 3555 133333 335 paras 3.33309 31- *9333 31 pun '1033353331333335 3955 1335?1k 761 '9lf '51 ?1135,- V21. 3 or: 1: mm; zoom ?t'N "on cumin - . PENGID coLauoNNI. 90760: r'onA ?za-a 1*11: Ch1s? . 7J1r "113 -13 I 1C indicata? 1: W33 2 4 Ch: samples Hr. CAI: referrad C91 Cloak AC Cha analytical results that A1AA 1A Flatntiffs C;analyaia for that? I do. I 1A Chat 1dAAC1?1ed. A1r. A: CA whAC type AC asmp1+ you.kaaw what 2, 4 19? ;AYes. that stands Chan 71: Ans :akan April 2och. 1979. -1211?' Yes. 1: 1A months CA June. 1?41 low; if you.wnu1d 'with ragar? Co bath Af A A Ins. I do. . . A And what 1C show under A61umA 1A Alp?CjIhAC's righc. 4. . 77fijv - And 1C shAwA 1A recent 1A CA of ?79.2 jug: had yAu 109% CC. H3798 H3715 if 9" 1199 I 11 halievn you 11 find a: Pass 19. the sample AC April 17 1979. AA yAu find Air? 5- 9 that would CA column headad 6L4, 91 b6113V%.: T1,r54; C13ht:;91ry And with CA A3715, samvl?gf 2.. PENGAD BAYONNE. N.J.A. 07002 '16 '.lg ?19. - .23 ,724,1 AExh1b1; 1135 under the tours column?_ 1'2?79. than.?h01twa Mr; Carr showed t9 you on his exa?inatton? I Macy Malone. does 1: refer to sevaral samp1as or a single saMp.la. Yduc: samp1a. Hgnar. CARR: -1t bears a date of April 27th?M?79. daas 1: not? lidiscussad with you? I'M-net" aux: what that Mums .. main 19:11.20; 1979. what wait the? finding >3h?m It also shows non: -Q- And those two samples are mars raeanz. 31:. :0 Juan. they are. . And tha Jun a 9.1979 maMorandum, the conversation with -I: 1ndicatas a single Mampleg I: says'a r?ceut-pr6~ m. MUSGRAVE. That's all. T?z 6933!: Mr. Carr. do you hava any fux?h?r{?uastiax 8263038 1'Leck'at Sampla 727, Mr. Park. which is?lat?r' -- A Yas. it does. Q1 And that' a 1age: than the saMples Mh1ch AYes. Raw. it ?ndicates.1a?s' 1: says 12 7 m? .PENGIAD BAIVONNE. 07002 FORM u. 243 .19. 666 sh6wa 14 parts par 6111166. 112. I4 ?is 1 '16- 17, '13, 221' 249? Hr. I 666 6.4666 of 666616. d666 16 666 4-I -Y?8.r I -4?7 A6611 27th '79? grAv6, 16 16 6667 A IA . th?gI '6 1666: than the 6666166 616666666 6166 y6u 6y M66 I A 21 266 6666 163D. 666 many 66666 per 6111166 16 16 6666I 1666: 666616 of 66 paraehl6toph66611 Apparenzly 66666 6666 lamplaa.? 066 shawa 6666? Q6 666, 6666 was 1666 sl1gh61y more than 6 66666 665666 '6616 p666: 6616666. 6666' 6 16. 6162 A- A A.month 666 6 half 66 66. yas. IIQ1I 166} 66616 you 66166 back,1? y66.66616. 66 the . 266666666 66 Q66616s 66 Raq6666s A661661666 10. 11. 12. andI 131 . A ch?f I You 666611 y66 616666666 6166 66. M6sgrav6 or 6166?66 666 Hr. Musgravn Friday 6666 ha 6166' 6 6666 75 1966666 that was jtachnienlly 1666:6666 and 666661666. you 66616 666 66616 6h66 "66666 6666 22 75 611266666 666666666 and 22 1666666; 66 IY66 666611 6666, 61:? Y6s, 6666.16 666 666. 666 666666666 666 666 whally 15% BAYONNE. 0106; - foam, -IL ab 10 .11 122M '13 )4 ',151' TI17 1.813 Ij?i-v '_20 21% 122, .- I23 . -jf 24;; -c9rraeu and, therefbra. was admittad. .I1dan2111cation.) M?Jn1ze ch: nama of the recipient. -7a? the ta?1p1?nts7 -Ials? and of tha raeip1ants7 Ida ya? 9-31 $11 1113 a 919913 on thare? Do you at: Dr. M1auxa 93 gum? MR. CARR: ?bula you mark th1s axh1b1t pleasa.I (A: ch13 t1ma Plaintiffs' Exhibit-11350 was method for 1 I hand yau?whaz' 3 been Plaintiffs Exhibit ?1550 and ask you 11 you recognize that as a Mbnsanco ammo daal1ng' w1th Tetrathal7 AI . I ?on' racogn1za the name of tha writer. I do recogM? .. I asked you.wh?ther 0: net you racegniza that as a Mbnsauto exh1b1t dealing w1th I A MM11 hava 10 say I don? recagn1zs Mr. Carr. Bees 1: hava on 1: a Mbnsant? letterhead on the saeond ?Af" Yes, 12 does. Bo you.recogniae your namm on tha saeond peso as on: Au Mail I was ana of thaae to .44 I . Qj m?wyou use Mr. Jasegh Massif on theta. Joe Massif I was eap1od ih.I Qi-' Do you nae Dr. Milseu on :hara. Dr._Rousch on thara. "14 ?23/ x; .ruuM 2?2? PENGAD C0.. BAYONNE. NJ. 0700-2 -10'1 'i11 13if'l 114' 1=115i 'f55*2. I 18 '19 '.2o 21: 224 ?31r?l - A 2' Af- Yes. 2022 325 addrasseas, some 222 copy-223 (s12. Ygu 229 Mr. Mai: on there; Mr. 318209. M2Carv1112;1" iL?yau sac 211 2hosc peop1e on theta? Q2 You 222032122 those as Mbnganto paopla, don' 2 you; .A: Yaa. Q. And you see 2hera' a a drain 122222 2hare, 12 522222 on:? 9222 T22222ha1 Gus toners, Mbnsan2o Company has recun2ly AME. MUSGRAYE: Object 2022922321 taading from 12 COURT: Objecc1on sustained. 2Q Subw, d9 you 222932122 2h12 an a Mansanto dacumant. 8311?? I V'a AA. 223; ?1 ML CARR: Mow 1'11 offer 12 122b?avidanca Af?i: pleasa the 62222. TEE CGURI: Any objac21on? MR. MUSCRAVE: Yes. I abject 2o 12, your Honor, 12'1219' 1222122222 and 1mmaterial 20 any 13322 in 2ha again" C?with-Tetrathal 3 3 29222222 czaatad in February of 1985.). no m222212112y 02?201evnn22 2a 2222 may hava bean 1n M122 12 2922222102 w12h 2h222 Raaponses 1n Angus: ,215 PENGAD BAYONNE. NJ. 07001 '2?8 335'16' l7_j I 18' 20 I 21? i'229 Aumbarad 3. .24.. '3?1979 coma four. almost ?1vu yaars Aftc: the fact. It'sf ]?tiasua in this lawsuit this Court or jury to dacida, and I [objact :6 1: on thO?G grounds, A1r; 'rsagrd that I'objact to 1: baing passad to thA.jury. It' a baanI IiAtroducAd'1neo ev1donc?; I rahliza that. but new Aha AAc1r3'_ . documant 15 being phased to thanury, and I baliaVi.?th aga1n A 19 AMA Jury to be r?ad oz.aeen, And I objec?? "ea 1: bdiAngAssed bAcause?af that;? "cr?atad in 1:3 Ancira:y.- I yen: Atzantion so 13 9:1A1r11y that found an Ie- 11' a 1n Aha lower A: aha top of page 16 1c is too remote 1n t1mA to any incidant in this 1awsU1c or raz'ccuax: .Objc?tionia overrul?d. I1 =h111'12'13 . reIavaAIt and mataxial. I A (At this t1ma axh1b1t was passed to ha jury. Ybux Honor. mAy I also Ante th? I?much of this is 1rrelevnn: and 1mmatcria1. And counsel haan? selagtiva with reg?rd to the dacumana 1A connaetion with what IKE coast: 0b5?eeian 13 nacsd. It?s;b?an 1AAO'av1dAn?e; It can be pAascd to jury unIess otharw1aa .1qI Mr. Park. par: of this exhibit that I wish to draw A Yus_. I harm 1t. Maw. aha: a u.quaat1an unsung form prepaxad by 755??, ?rtuano co;. ?young. rm. o?zooz' ropm "14: . 15-1-1 '7 13: 18 .2?11 121$- 24 page that I xeforrsd you to says thorn 1:1 75 Inomors or typos 'voi dioxin, 2.3.7.8 tetrachlorodibonao~p-d10x11 (TCDD) 11 tho .A31nt 011131. ?10 75 d1ffer1n: compounds. and you 1116 you don1od that 3111151 :10 11111181 011 of the ?ioxin 1:011:17 to 2 3. 7. 8 ICED or a diox1n 13011:? =771dm1t ch1t_ dioxin tofars to 75 diffotont comp?unds was 8111111,.73 0911113., You 118 1 mambo: of oth1r1. including MI. 31111! hero 30: 109111 of Ic.w11 propaxod in February or J1nuory of - I m.1orry. F1b111ry. 1985.11d the Answaz-No..I3 on tho 111E 16:11 dioxin 11011: and 11 tho compound 1110c11tad 11th. Haw. Hr. Pork, you on you: 3?19?1?1?. your d1111I1 I ~ofj'oquosts to A3111 80. 13. II 11ys aha-t1rm donin rafors. of_th1 of tho.word compounds. Do you 111 11?1h1-1xh1b1: . 111:3: h1v1 just-handa? you that the word c?mpqun??I1_uaed that; - .VIA-V Miss ?1111n1 11 no: 1 tochnIeal 91:101. V, .. Exam/a :11. 11:. Park. 1911111 answer my quosuon. A And year quostion was do I 111 :h1 11:; In this A. 137 7 I 7 Do. hr. Park. that wosn a my quoation.7 1 I sorry.; I 3? you 111 1ho ward compound used :h1r1 with roforouc1 A Y1s. I 111 than 111116 11111111. And you 1111 as I11:.wook 1h1t the 111111 you 6111 [17 a 67:. -FENGAD NJ. 01061 fO?lM IL 1?0 ji?TV3 .116 7 2,2? 6 61i3611 I"j4 16' 177 16646 6 :20 :24? T16 6666': 6 66666666. Mow M6636666 in 6616 66666666 6666:6611 6 .16 '6 I 666126666 I 5~ 6'666166 66 the 66661666y. Th6 666666 that 16 was 666166 is 666' - _anl 16 666 666 666166 6h66 616616 was a compound sir. T.dioxin,.ddaa 13? 616? 66. MUSGRAVE: Objacclto that D666 16 666, air? MUSGRAVE: Obj6ct to that. 'Tha6'6 6 61666966666- 6'6166636?66361666y was as well as what in fact 6h6 R6sp6666 was. ear?.' M6, 16 does not, Mr. 6666. -Q . And you also 66661fiad that your 666161 was 6166 be~ ?66666 66666 6666. 10;000 types 6f compounds kn6wn.66 616616; y66 r666mber 6ha6 also, sir? 1 -Av_ Yes. 9??And71: says h6ra.in?6his Exhibit 1550 6ha6_th666-6666' 75 1966665 6: 6yp66 of dioxin, doms.? 6 16, six? 1 I. I I .A Th66 366666666 is wads. . 16 66666' 6 say that 666:6' 10, 060 666666666 kn6wn 66_ M6;716'd66s not. 6 A6dzy66 Risa 366666 1666 666k 6666 666 66:6_66666+ 6:76616:661b6666spvaioxtu herein rafgrradita as 66666 thd-s' T?forth Mr. Carr, 16 th? Respon66, 66d 16 cleariy 666666 6666 '1 THE COURT: Objection 16 overruled. You may 9666666; PENG-AD CO.. N.J. 107002 FORM IL 2?3 10 ll" v.12 l3 14 ?15" 17 18 21- 23' '1hd?fiuics; Y66 ass taurach10?edib??3?49?41??in (7599) ??34 1? ;1somer and is 3 66666666; 66 you 666 that. air? a_7666166 of the document. The 6666666: does 66: say TODD 1a the gdioxinvi?omerY? .13'56666611y :e6egnizad;:6 be 66x16 6f tha_6etra 16666: "Tnizad to be the most 6661 6- 6f the tetra 13666: a? ,tatrachlarodibanza-p-diexin, the 6636 66316 616316 666?: you; sit? VA. 'VYes. You 6166 6bj6e: or 561d you da?ied the request :66: TODD 16 a 66x16 compound Do y6u sea wher6 ?66 ansWer to Quas - 3:166 13 16 1550 calls 16 the 666: d16 x1n -1- 6666 66x16 6161164 ME. MUSGEAVE: 06366: :6 that. 6666' a 613r6presen~e mostvtoxic 616x16 16666:. I: 66y: 2.3.7.8 TCDD 16 the moat tox?c' TEE COURT: 0bj6ec1o6 sustained. Y6u do see where Question 14 y6u deny that Q6696166 14 in Exhibit 15 -- in the thuespa.to Admit, Quustion Do. 14 A .. ?3433;; Q2 7 Y6u 666 whgre 16 says 2 3. 7 TCDD 1s gen6rally r666g--. A6 - Yes. Q- And you 366 in Exh1b1: 1559 666:6 1: 6166 says 2, 3 7, 8 32 1 3?1? PENGAD C01. BAYONNE. IN.J. 07002 FIORM ILPZIB 1310 '11? 512 1. -I .141?, .11: i6 .15 111201: .217 I121 =24, A1 Yes. 1Q Yaw. Mr.vPark. OSHA was using these terms in exactly? C'the same way yen a: Mbnsanto. lawyers and scientists combined uSed these terms. isn' that correct. 31:? A have to answer no. Doesn this Exhibit 1550,d1dn 1: 'ee - by S5rah Collins; a press relations person and distr1--f' bated and aciantists7 .1 .Por ?otrectioh. eorr?cc. - And did anybody correct 1:7 I hav9'no i?en. 1 assumn that some did. ?All how do you, why do ycu make that assumption? f1); >?i13? p? Whare Ila year A . She sent 1: out for correctionals-- 'Ql' Yes. . I CA I additions or so fardhy And where is yOur knowladge. sir._that it was aver- corrected? A merely guassing. - well Mr. Park you ?va beeA A lawyer long enough to fknow that as a witneSS you' ta not allows to guas 8 unless! 1I'ask you to guess. ~I1aakad you for.knowledga., Ybu said 1.: was-1 Ycorractod an? in wasn' aerteated to year knawludge, was Ifair7 Ais?i?sr" amount. NJQ ozooz ranu' us -n .A 12 . 14A ?15' - 17. 18 19? i?_2o 21 22?' '123. 'PAtk77 3Tb your knowledge 1: was never correct?d. 1A. 31:? ,correcticns. a312, to your knowledga 1A was never carractAd? "fdb you, 31:? A I wou1d assumA that it was. I TD your knowledge it wasn Correctea was .11A . Mr.; . AT I don' A even know 1? 1A was AVA: used. Mr. Park. my quaszion 1s Apedific you understand 1A. AA moment off top of my hcAd I cannot racall ThAn is the answer to my qucst1on the: a euArAcA.. I don' A feel that I Answer way. Mr. Cart. with all recipients Mr. Park, do you have Any knawladgA that 1A earrAc A. Apec1f1c vAll right. Mr. Park. 12 you have no knowledga Aha; 1A was corrected than my statement 1; And accurate. 13 1A MA Cart. not nAcgssar1ly.- VQ 'co yen: knowledgA ?a carefully. Mr. PAIR ?9 y?ut knowledge -9 firAA of All. you havA no knowledga, . I I have knAwlAdge of Axperience, Ar. Car: A I understaad that. Mr. PArk. I fa ga1nAd 1n many maAZAr a like AhiA.~ ?f EAVONNE. NJ. 07001 IL 260 -10- 12 113 14- 615 16? 116:6 . 21' .22, ~246754' v6 6sk6d f6: copies of ?1 1 60666666. we asked for c0916: fknowledga that th6r6' someth1ng other than this was prap6r6d 6.6and can: out 66 tha custpmers,w you hav6 such 6p6?1?1? 1knowledga, Hr. Park? I V.know16dga o1 6uch. C?6p??1f1c knowledge a: th16 moment? hava 6666 responsas. :Vj3p661f1c-know16dgg7 19 6Mbnsanto Corparation 16 36163 to 6136 an Aff1dav1: that th1s 16 gth6 ia:6661dchm6 6 that 6% havs 16 Our ?116 en this?pbint; do Wyouaknowfthat..sir? Mr. P6rk you know wh1ch drgf: this was? Th16 was 'the 11661 dr6ft. 16' 6 datad February 15th it' a go 163 to so out. ?06 Ma6d6y. February the 18% 61:. Comment; are requested toda? 6?:?1n61 drafts. This 16 1t. Mt. Park. unless you hgva 6pgc1f1c I I h?ve -- ,1 66666: at this 60666: recall 696611166 66 v.?Q Then 16 my answer to my qu6661on that you have no such A Hg, but I do h6v6 3666661 6666 666:6 66616 - Is the 66666: ta my quasc1on, 61:. that you h6v6 no :1 I cannot recall. :20 g?gha fullg?complete 60mpliance w1th our Raque?c and that-Sbisvis_ 1' not sure, but -Q Do you.hav6 any k66w16dg6 :6 the contrary. Mr. Park? no you know th66 your attorn6ys and your pres1d6nt of PEANGAD NJ. 01002 IFORM IL 248 ?16 .116 155 3166 17 618- 19' i 6 6621 22- )242*~ '6?f1rs: drafts 66:?changed. .Do you know which draft this 1s?_r 'c6uldn' sir? with 66 ahang6a made? .6611166 whrdad hat trans6inta1 16:66:. 1: 1661163 6::66g1y ?that 16' a not the ?1661 1raft. She 66y6 she 66613 6:666 now_ ?vsay? .W6 16:6n6?69?s?nd it on: Fabgugry the 13th. A 1 havu business knowledge ga1?6d-1n r6661V1ng thcse ?61636. A No.1 666' c. F1rst, last. 16 between? A -No.1 don' know. This c6616 be the 30:6 araft 66 far as you know. A It cartginly could be.. I doubt 16 aha ?1661 62616 6666666 61 the way M158.6 . .9 6 If theraw sgoihg to be 6161610661 cha?gas she wants - 1?6 Yeah. 6 Q. 66366 wants a f?6?back by this aftern?onT6i r-She doasn' say this W111 be pub11shad on th6 18th. ,Sh6 m6r?1y 6ay6 aha 9166.6 16 gianning 66 discuss with ampi6yaes, Q76, 106k at the first page of the axhibit. What does 1: .A {that'? mh? 16:66:. Er. Carr. W6 ware 106k1ng, Q16 -Wr. ?ark, what you're talling us 16 that You?kno? that 16 coula be the final draft as far as you con?erna? 23 (guano co.. auoun?. n.1, . 0706: rank u. 24: 10 '11 1'2 .13 ._14 .151.? 17 zdi 21 22'1 his testimony. Ha nevar said they wera incorrect. he said they'- that correct. sir? a1 tha qunstioa and answer part. -Q. Yes. Mr. Park. so that we can move on from th1a. 11 _1a ttua that you have no specific and no knowledga on . 111s memo whatsoovnr dual1ng with.1his memo. deai1ng w11h these 1 quest1ona and answars than this was changad in any fashion. 1sn' A:.v I canno1 r?calI a: tha momma: any spacif1c changes. 2 fQ? Would you snows: my question. 1 . Park._ You can say I: _yas. that' a correct, or you can say no. that 13n'1 corr1ct. A. I 1: the moment. yes. 1111' a correct. SQ Thank yet. 61:. And in this drafe ?ha'usaa and sends, to you and 811an11sts 11131 very terms that you denied ware '_carrac:1y used 1n your 31190331 to the Raquest, 131' 1 '1111veozxac1,,3122 That's corra11; Now. Mt. Park. you also aiscussad_1halvari?us wipd I tests. 111 augga?tsd-tha: chart were aom1 111a: aampies thaES" were tesgad and that somahow or o1har the f1ndings and referred to in tha Jana 12:1. 1979 mama wars incorr?ct, 11151111 that. 111? 11. museaavzz Objecnien. that's a misstatement of 'tsware.latar 5811113. St??~CO?kis 4phjection is ovarrulad.- ?i . 10' 7'14 .15 17' is 2.0" 21' I'22f I 23. I. 717th. 1980, doesn' sit. on very first page CC the Chat' 3 raferrad :0 1n Jung of '79. shows Sample 1A and" Cad 5A to have CanastamC per m111111tar of doesn? 1C,.91r? '1.170 of diox1n per m111111CCr CxCracC, doCsn'C 1C. 31:? of 1 3 dataa 4th Cf May. 1981. 1an' it. 31C7I "'25 'wbuld.you my MC. Fark. sure I ramamber Chat. Mt. Carr. .I?m sorry? 79? ?3 AD I m. not aura I tha? MR. CARR: wou1d you sat Exhibits 1170 and 1175 pleaaC; The Exh1bi: 1170, Mr. Park. Ch?Ce a a date of January' Yes, 1C does. . And if you leak at Exh1b1t 1170. you'11 find a TCbla 5 2, will you not, air? Yes. 1" And 1170A.alraady 1n Cvidcnca 1a a blowup of Tabl? 2.13 1: sir? - I A7, doCs CppCar to CC Chat. '1 Q. And Chis Cable and -- made 13 1980. six months Cftei A A And it'Clso shaWs it-shows,7 YCs. R917. 11 W11 leak at Cabin 1 in Exhibit 1175. an. PENGAD co.. 01902 roim IL :43 165 .nj 13' '14 117?:- I is" 3119 20 21.? 22} LYAA . And 1t' 5 referring to wipA at the Krummr1ch 1sn? A air? Q7 And 1A Ahcws. doas 1: not. 51:, that of Awe yAArs Aha Aha: you refAArAd to there 614 1a. diexins AA Aha co1umn, at Aha reg1star . A: Aha top cf the column walls and 1A Aha Open top wail doesn it. sir? Yes. I (AA Ah1s AimA Exh1b1t 1551 was mArkAd for gidcntificat1on.) IQA you 1551 88? if you If recognize that as A dncumant dealing w1 th.w1p? sAmp1AAl.l -1ns1dA Bayartmant 237? A Offar 1551. you: Honor, into AvidAnAA.?. TEE CGURE: gAAy objections?' I bAliAvA Ahis 1A same 1A?ormat1oA conAA1AAd 1n Plaintiffs' 1175A, your Honor.. 1 we A11 incor- Abjactions 1 made befora vas_ to wipa sample: As_'y A general AopiA. TEE CGURW: F1no. ThAy?rA 11' A Adm1AtAd 26 BAYONNE. N.J.- 07002. 2MB f101.' I?m _121 "?13.f 1'15 - 1 1- 18 I9 f=2o,? MMchelienM claan1ng job.? Do you see that, sir? .23 - Mao: familiar to ma. results of some tests on Mh1s. on a column at.a-leva1 at *Mthe Mop cf column and in the open. doesn? a 1M. 81:? vtatta dioxins in 311 :hrce tests. that 18. at 12 nanograma per 1n31da a procaSa vassaL Frad Ha11?mgn thinks you did an . (Exhibit pasagd to tha 3 Mxy. 3 Mr._Park this is a Memo 31gned by Buckley. and it want so Kirk d1dn 31:? H- Mr M. Kirk. whatevnr S1r? I: 3 addressed to a P.. 1M1cial P. Kirk. ,Tha name 18_, Q_v doM' know Mhat thaM stands for Mt. Phil Kira? That' 3 correct. 1 WelL that' 8 no: important. but in any avent. 1t showg_ 9A7 And 1: Shaws those threa tests that Mhey foMnd 100 quara cant1meters, 8 nanograms par 100 sq?ara centimMcaMM;_ and 15 naaograms per 100 square cenMimncars. And at the --M 1: also says "Thasa lav?la arM-' lower thaM OSHA Mania expect go in tha workplaea area. A Yeas 27 ?bula aha: suggest to yoM that the aquipman: that had CO.. BAYONNEI N.J. ?07001 FORM IL 246 1105 . :12 133.31 153 1-716 "f 819?gr -idT 21'- 3 II 123 1243' 'baen rapdtted on 13 1979 as having'sig?ificantly 31333: 133313 of d10x1n 33:3 cleaned? Carr, I'm no: sure I can :13 in 9- ?1 hAve 61f-? "f1?gltijith :ha question, bacausall' 3.30: ?f 3311, (10331: :13 that equipmant to th1s.? 9033 it suggaa: to you that eamntima bafbre Apr11. that was_b31ng tested? A1 That' 3 correct. . But evan natw1thatand1ng the cleaning :h3y 3:111 found ?d1ox1n. didn' they, air? A3 Ih1_3 apparently 333 133133 3 process V33331. Cauld you 33333r my 33333133, Park. sorry. I didn' hear 333: you 3316. Mr. PM. TEE I: was inside-tha process v33331; hot 333:3 33333 would he exvosura. I I 33313 ygu 333 33r my qu333103, Mr. Park. I33, ghay apparently a tiny 33333: was found - And :33 statement that was made :3 the 933113 in 1983 Ihad you ever 1n response to 333 quest1on have you 3V3: '7 333333 far ICED befbra new, 33 333 3337:337 f3: 333133 I 1981 the aquipmant 13 237 was cleaned or at 1333: this particu13- . - 2?3 Ifwipe samples and found 13 net 33 be 923333: 13 untrue, 133 a PENGAD BAVON-NE. NJ. 07002 245 '1033 '11. 131 14. 15? .16" I7 18. 193 I3?o 11' '_23 31:? .th3 answer, Mr. Carr.3 'rapresenuation of what the answer was. 113333_333_b333 established ear113r.- '13432? '333W3r n3. Can Yb? giva ma 9* 1 can read -- 3 MR. MUSGRAVE: I baliava you 3333 to read :33 :33: of Mumb3r of the exhibit, Mr. Carr. 1543. . I MR. I would raunSt. y?ur 8330:. that Mr. '1?C3rr 33 r3quired to read the r33: 31 333 33333: which mak3s 1: 13 m1slaad1ng and 1: 13 an inappropriate. 1333:33; MR. GARR: Your Honor. 33 ?v3 gone 1330 th1a axh1b13 'Iwith 333 w1tn333 alr333y. Th?e. jury ha3 They hav3 3333 13.3 THE I dan't havw is'?hat. IMR. Monor._r MR. Q3333133 10 333 Answer 19: you: THE 636311 ?Just 3 313333. fbund 13.4 033333133 13 ov3rruled 3nd the jury does have 13. 33 I ramember the questidn I 33113v3 I 33313 have 301 M1. Park. 33 'v3 3333 through 3 number of 33h13133 I 1-129 Mfuliy 3331333 tory as so what the responsa of this qu333103 1: 333 Ehink 11' n3333333y for 33 :3 go thr?ugh 3v3zy 33133 v\ I unvumuL, HM- remmu guy2h? .6'2r. _?rom;Juno of 129 through 1931 1n tasted Dar an? . fqund. havu an 31:7, Yes. vs have. Q. And the statemcn: Answer 12. we had tested for I CDD by tak1ng wipe samples and found 1: not to_bc preach: 1sn7t_ ?carroc?. 1sn'thtrun. 13/12. 31:? A '-Ybur Annwat 10 you.m?An? . That' a correct. .Thara 3 nothing 1n bar: to 1nd1cgte that thin 13 not correct answer. I would assuma :h1s 18 correct. I 33333 on Ithe basis of 36m: of the that wo have just looked _3c 1: 13 correct thac we had testad for TCDD by taking w1pe samples and fauna 1: not ta ha prnsent. 6n the fact of 1: tha?_appaarn a cotton: statement; - 0h you-mash 1f yoh tanto? ouch. you Dound CD0: ?1nstanca. D19: Sample 2A, 3A. and 4A there when 'c any Betta 1ptaaen: 1n those wipo samplca. and thore?ors. you taka. you shy Deanna: :harc warn three w1pas taken where TCDD was no: fbuhd. .therafcre . aha statemant 1n Answer A10 1n 1543 wharo thay say Thwo had tested for TODD by :Ak1ng?w1pc samples And found.1t not 1:9 ha present 15 therefore a urn: matimuldbh . 2 Is that ydur reasoning, Mr. Park? I That would appear?to ht 4-6 30' ?A.Iez ?303133033 31 ?33333 33393633 333333131 33331., 3 .?3333_1oa3333 933 31 31333.3?3.31 33393311 1 'I1?no?vi 3 nap ?81 3333 3uqn.anua 305 ?01333 3033 1033309 b' '3 333 1 ?33 1?3 1313 '33? 3 nap ?61 3333 ?1133 403 3360 put do: 333 us a3a1d p33 31133 333109 ?b I '?sao. 1 'd3 3336013333 33331833 ?3,333 1 ?331_ 3f 131s *no? 3 331 ?33333 3333 '33od 39331833 1333331333 333 3313 3311133; 303 33 aa& 31? 3?31: '3xnsodxa 333 a 33333 $38 nos 393 sou ?3333 1133 ?3339 ?3uamd1nb3 333 3313 3311133; 333 1 -1 i 1310 '3393333 3333,3 381' 1133 303 undo 333103 ?31133 umn1oa cu: 30 do: no 333 30333 put 19, put 30 can: 31 3333 3313333 93033 1133 '3133 03 33333133 ?q 303 91333 33330333 333303 33 ?1q1ssod. I :03 p139: 33033 33333 3ntmd1nba 13313333 391331 303; u3333 I7,3r1dmuc pun 'o3naod33 333333 sq p1non 33333 33333 93333 03 833333 313331333 31 333 3333 33 31333 31 so 3333 331 3 go 3333 333 8.3933 Itg??1 Vb .3339 #63 ?3130 113 30:11, 1. '13335 fax 3831303333-3ne?iavq3 3131 I. [z I 'Tfloz .16inlet 'Ju'uoua "109' many . ,5 0sz 11 mm; 10610; ,1 1 1 PENGAD C0.. BAVONNE. NJ. 07002 Al>22. 23 jt 1 experience that thoy ?on' hava axpoouxa. do you. 91:? ?Zyou that a conet?i Icon tah1$ that: 1: works: exposurc11 room.th?ta first of 311; that: 13 1n control. A'that tah1a 13 there Eb: aha purpose of tha wankers using 11sn? a 91:1 Began? 1 your common sense 1111 you that1 fby the wor& tabla answar yes. {thare is wnrkar exposure. isn' there. 31:? A I dan't know based on poisbnal'?1pog1enca. Hr. Carr; I 'Wh11, Hr. 111k. thin ion don?t know from.por?onalv A. My commnn sens: tallsm Excuse me Mr.-Park. Duesn't?your cohmbn sense call A I don' know about that. '1 Doesn' yen: acumen sens: tell you that 13 the room, aren?t thara, 31:1 it's _?Ahd, Hr. Park. 1n thae central room 19 a table. 'Ha?,vA A If 1t? 3 a resale: table. yea. bAny,kind of uab1e. If thera' a a ethic there. 1t' 3 1n the central room.wh?ra phbp1a go. :hc:e_s gxpesuro, nhgra, A If it'd by tabla 19 mash: whit a normally maant_> you don? knew anything to tha centrary1 Than A Cauld bu. 1, Ana shin th1a statamant 1cn' crux. 15 siracven 32 - "new 07002" foam IL :43 .. . 10. fiz-_ 1_j4_A_ isf A16 ?18; I 1'9? Izo- 211- .jjI ?24? _W1th1rggard?coAcheAway you.wbu1d modify fougdA1: not to ba prasunt. That 13 a falsghoo?. 1sn' 01:? WhacauSef1t'aAeakan'ou: of context. I: has to be rand 13 con- _Aho??1on.w1th the aacond a?hton??3 cantaxt. A_Athay found 1: nut to ba present? ATtastod fat Tabb 'by cak1ng ?ip: samploa and fbund M2: C?rr We had casted for TODD by tak1ng wipc samples and -QAA II can': any -- I objact no counsel' a representation A0bjec:1on.1319v:rrulod, It?s no: ouz'?f answer 13 to be ne._ I Qj Bid shay find 1: on furniture. on the cantrol room 13_ ,Aeearding ta aunt tabla. yan.v thai, dIdAanshan? any A A {Fbur years lanai - *Qb A1014 Mbnsanco say here that they didn? f1nd 11, the: .iA? It dacan? any they have: found -QA A IA A It ascan' say 1: was nova: fbund.1: says we ha? . if 3?35 BAYONNE. NJ. 0700: form IL quI- ?10 311' 112I 13 .14 v1.5 . LCI17L 18. 1913 3-2o_ IIzlii ?21g thumplea bc?ora '83. 13h' that air? 3 . 23 occas1?n and 1t 3393?: theta. than that makes 1: a truthful statement. You' :3 baek to that now. 3:33 't yau. 31:? d1d 1c bafbr1 the t1m? yen fauna 1: 13 your park1n3 133.: That' I 'whachag 33336., and the anawar was 3: baa tested by 183133 313: 1 '3333113 and ?6331 1: no: to be presenth Thge?s a 31113 an: and"1\' :Yout falaehoad 133? air? .7'832 Newryou? :3 983133 than 11 3503 Izaak a ham3la on an: Re. For one th1n3 1t -1 1: 33311 3333 19 be mare_.11? than one. baeausa it's used in the 313331.. N9. the quast1on 13 had you ever tested 13: Tenn one time or a thousand tings. ?ad-yau :33: ,fA_ . 31.3r. Carr. an I hava stated.I_ D11 you caka 313a aamplaa ?83? 'Yas. . IQ 1 Ibid 333 1n samples naked bafbtc 1.33? I I I '1 AT V.A33arsn:1y in a few samples. 1I Did you find 1: preaau: 1n the samplas taknn be?or?_ IA 3 In a ?33. yos. '3 Q: I Then what 13 crua is that you did find 1: in a few Yes. .I Q1 Than 1: is estrus :0 say that you did 33: ?134 1t I PENGAQ CO.. BAYONNE. NJ. 01002 FORM IL 110" .11 L2, 14; "is? I 16 _17 1.18 -26 Ter 22jy'7 71I23, 661611 ?33 116? 6 1t. :11? '3117 That 18611: aha truth. 61:7 111. isn't 1 1. 11:7 ?111 to gay that: you didn't: ?nd 12:, 136' a 12:. 611? .16 that context. . true that you fauna 1c bef6ra '83. 116? 1: a 116 66 nay that ?gyon d1dn't f1nd 127 "'313, 1Mr. Carr. as I havn stated 4? Excuse 16. 31.9111. 06613 yen unawar. that qussn166f'1 .11 -IQhaw61 44? as TOM phrased 11; noger. Cart. 5Q 3. It is true that you ?6und 1: 613616 '33 tan 1 11? MR. ijaction; Asksd and gnauared,' TEE EOURT: avarrulad 1 Q77 And 1f y6u any that 6336' ?aund befdre '83 that' a Mn. 65332:, 'chat'a unmasked ma Maw?md. "we: count: mama 1.: has not. Mo Mr. Carr, 6663636 that was Mpparantly the case. 5 WMII Mr. Park, you 361: agraed that 1: was true that iwgyeu had ?666 3 1t. -Mow. 12 1t? 8 true that yau found it-s-ax MR. MUSGRAVE: Objget. a bean asked and answ1163 I5.- 661m": 1A M6: as th16?atatomaht is wr1tten. M1. 'Carr. 16Q S1r. wouId y6u please answer 63 If 1: 1: UIUUZ Ivnm . - C0..I I [11 3 12. II13I I14 IT15 I16 '18 119_v3 I '320 3' . 22 ~f_f23,- I13 to say that you d1dn't find 1: before ?83? A . Q. a HR Object. 1: a bean asRod and answered 1n ch1? context .R ., . I I.RTKE COURT: has not been _IThat statamant 13 no: 1n here. I I I you answer that qunst1on . Mr. Park. I weum have :e 1n? 5 true that yen ?aund 1c before it a 3 That stateman: I would say woul bc incorrect.- Is incorroct?*I Yen; II Hr. Park. it' a 110. 13a? It? Object. 1t' 5 bzen askaa and answered m3 count: Overruled. If the truth In Itrwas found bafare ?83 1t' 5 a lie m-say that 1: when found before isn? 31:? - .153 . Iknow truth to be. you asked In: did I take you: :13 c11p :h1nR a II. 13 know1ng . Object . 1t' 3 been asked and answered 003313 OVRrruied. Incortsat statement. 5IYns. 11 you know uh. :ruxh. 1f Mbnsanco knows or TIfrom'youx 31:. I know whethar I took the tIe c11p ?263 you: 31eI-. ?50: not. and 1? say, no, I dIdu? caka your :13 c11y. I'm Jo co,. amount. NJ, 07002 roam uT z?ny ,9 '11' - 13.1?. 14 -D51 :16 .18 res-pDnsIbIo ta: the aDt1Dna bf :hDsD paDple . than a collection of and stockholders and I .IA. . Q. 1 Hr. Park. and yen that D'It0111ng a 112. aran I. 31:? *If you knew you had taken it. yes. IYos. . if 1: had becpmn attached tD yDur~II IcIDthing aDd you were DD: aware cf than that waDld be an VF rincorrac: statement. 3 had cakcn wipe samples be?ore '83 and knaw=that that: wad TCDD Absolutaly, no question about it.? and not a 110. There a no question but Dhat ansancD know that 1: 1 those w1po samples; tharc' a no quaation abDDt thac.- 13 :harD? Sarah 0?111Ds did not knew If? Echse ma. you aDswer that question. Dr. Park. a HR. MUSEEAVB: RD (1191-.me HonDr, object. TEE COURT: Th3 Dbjaction 13 ovnrrulcd I Mbnsanto 18 no: a postn, Mr. Carr. EbnaantD as far as the law 13 concarned 1a 3 952803,: I 1: aDd can only be responsibla.. a Do :7 anych1ng -lexaeut1vas and bDard of directors and pres1dents aDd MR. EUSGRAVE: Object DD the epcach. a DD: 3 Pinon) 10,. 1-3, 1?4 M511 . 16. ',19 4 I 11-24 I. qu.stion.I Rogues: that 1: be atticken aMd the jury instructed I '1 d1sregard THE CODEI: ObjectIon is ovarrulad. It's propbr. ?1 I preparatory to tha Questian that? a Mrying to be aaknd. Mr. Park, there 13 no quastion but MMat Mbnsanto kMaM that wipe samples eakaM befbrc '83 Mad fauna TCDD.. i. 13n.: that corrocz. 31:? I don' knaM that every Mbnsanto employs: can b0 7 charged M1th knowladgo -v I didn't ask you that, air. +4 with every other Mbnsanco employee._ II f?Q' I'm.no: asking you that. Mr. Park, and youngoM I 'm.1 Mos M?king-you-thaa. Evary Mbnsanta caployaa 13 Mac Maid :rcsponsible anyth1ng. The emponeea era no: Mat 6 responsib] _It's tMa ceryoration that' a Mold respaMsible. My question 15 kneM before 1983 Mtge samples Mara taken and iItMat the M1pe saMplos contained 2 3 7. 8 or contained ICDD.L.M 1'I1sn' that correct. sir? ?1'*gA Certainly thosa who aMalysed those samples that '-de MIlookad a: and thosam communicated Mould have been aMare of I You war. on. Of Once that Mall.str1ke tMat.; 7 my knew then tho truth was 2m '1'an was found 1n than wipaI 'fsamplea. Didn?t they. 31:1 138;;f PENGAD co.. BAYONNE. 01qu Yi'jfu I14 15? .I17 YSY .191 ,dh1311?: _Y'2i I 'l122_ 1m? 51:2 I sY MR. museum: in Answer No. 10. r :3 pa?? x: Carr rafarred you to, 13 ghat correct? That' 5 correct. So that' 5 week or so after th5 727 sample that Mt.. . . 137717 . 1423' 115. i 16.2; 717 7'18' 7?19jf g231?2 iook a: tha tabla ANN tell us what the findings were undNr Nb: NCAUCLA column. -1 I Ncne datectad Q1 . All N1ght. And 13 M3736 avnn close: 1N :1ma to I June 9 aha: 1t 13. .NQN I And NB727 1 beliavu you 331d thoNa were two test none-detached? Al NYNS, And oNaywaled? :7 1 BN1 NB7366N May 7, 179.Nas nan?vd?gactadii A. . . . That's 2N3. N9 NthaN quest1ons. yoNN NonoN. NN. Carr, do you have any question322'2: dNnor. Nr;bPaNk-, yoN may Neva. Thahk you. CARE: 1' 311 Jehn McPh1111ps now as an adverse 7' Nada; the appropriate Supreme CourN Rules. JOHN NCPHILLIPS .ibaing callad As a witness Nada Section 2-1102 Of aha Civil NPracticw Aet. having bean f1rst Nuly swarm, as follows C8953 EXAMINATION ?j1 51 9- VV . I ref; 24k 1 ?v-r?w 1" IL 249?: "PrNcAb co? aavouut, 12 1 '17 '1992115- ?.C?mpAQy.; ?Wm-j A 1 }5121_ WOuld you state yOur name please, sir.1 MR CARR., sorry. wara you raady. Counsel? Mn. 'hJust a moment. 1f I could Mr. Catry9?9 (Pauaa) 0kay., Thank yen. Agould you stats your mama please, sir. . -. I?And whats Vdo you live, Mr. AACincinnati Qh1o. I I I, A And how long have ydu 11vad there? A (Alana. f1Va yAars or f1Ae years. A And what 1A ydux present occupation? A A currently a kay account diraccor for Manaanto,' ?9 IA A ?Sixceen years. s1xteen and a half .That mean: you would start somatima about 1969? 99 '69. aar1y2969 I I Q- And directing your attention to 1973 'TAwhara.war& you at th?t t1me? . I Ads in St. Louis.- Q: And worming in tha what . the International Headquarta: far Mbnsanto? I A 91A Yes, 61?. IQ r-orm ?grzu?c'Ao alvdunz. . 0100; 16 [3.19155if- Sturgeon spill took place more or 1135. 1-35 that correct? 11 :fiThat w0u1d be locatad 1n Crava quur? long had y0u been there, physically there at that . AI rhare 1n 1976. 1Q7 And ycu had haen there spma thrae years before the 1' - Ag11lYes. air .2 1 . 1 671:1Qi,1 And yOur position 1n 1979 was what, 31:? 7::Af?f?Harket manager of antimlcrobials.._j1* 7 1 :11Q1751And cauld y?u tell us Just exactly what that involvns A1A1'1fpr1mar11y you 're rasponsibla for tha marketino of ?_-j4gf ?hava that accounts for abbut t?n products. And --5 511'? at the Krummrich Plant? liffJA. Yes. 81:.1? Few lang had you bean rasponsibla marketing the '11?7711111121P1ant as of January 0f 79? years. I cama 1a in April Of '76, so it would be a little whala list b? chemicals un?sr tha antimicrebial grqup that HQ1W hat moul? include chlorinat?? phanols manufactured 7g1113 phanols that were bAing manufactured at :he Mbnaantf7711? .rtuww 11.0.. Mruum.? mo; :2 2103 A 712.I ?/13 171 1'8 20 2'21 .24'-33 .phAnpls7 _now.1t was callAd kay Account maA agar and than with chAnge rAsponsibilitiAs and what hAvA you2 1 wan: to district Annagar and then to kAy Account directer, 30 esaantially AA to Iof Mbnsanta 3 Wh? might 'vpurchasA chlorinatAd phAnol output of Mbnsanto7 313%3 . ?&92 I did hAvA d1rAct contact w1th Aha customera,_ Ifbut primarily AA AAVA A sales farAA that handles those rA89ons1+ :5 IbilitiAa. '2 A11 righg. And how 1ong Aanr January of"79 did yeu' continue to th? responsib111tv of marketing cha chlorinatedI91 A. A yAar and a hA1? . 39 you werei,#- d1d you than 1a 19 5-- ?130.~ 2 . ?haA?2?,go a7coA?1?c?1y711??AreAt posit1937' sir1AngAtiAAsociatAd?wi?h?ehA ch1?iinat?429h?n?1d7 YAs, 81r.2 2 I. I And wha: was that 9681t1an thAn in 19807 KB A: A 2 ACurrAAtiy thA same very similar job to wh1ch I havi vA bAAn in tha same pos1:1on. Now,d1d you in '79 And in '78 hAvn rasponsibilicy for . Gk, yAAh,1?d AAVA mayba sdma indire?c responaibilityT I . A: Q, Did sales fprcA wbrk'undArJYAA7 NUAU I . . . 6' ?6?6what relationship? -- 603.812?; What contact did Y9u- have "1th the sales farce a: I 'IITraported :6 a manaver 6f marketing products whe reported to a gjf,director of markmting The field salas ?area would work through regional managers who'd rapes: to a director of field Iffsales, who a report t6 tha 3666 director of marketing 56 we chemicals that I hardlad Thgy handled probably 60 ..196 131? nether chemicals besides mina. 1 6: problems that would arise in that araa? ,Vf1?zfgigany of the tachnical natura 6f Stuff TOT what the "IIZIYTQtechnical peopla 6h6 would have that responsibility 66y advise '5j65163666 that this that is necessary f6 field salts A 6111 1 werksa- in rm marketing function, which I ?buld 11 be fair t6 say that th? afficacy and tha 'f N6, 31: Bid ybu have 3 responsibility in that respect? I don hav? responsibility in haalth and safety at 9 {wars avantaally aIl under the saIes-marketing organization. but? f1?55 16616?66 I had 66 authority avar than or responsibility for tham.i A11 I6961f_? {6*n451 did was give them assistance in terms of marketing of the with regar? t6 health hazards 6f the chlarinated phenols ans 6f your concerns 6: responsibilities t6 deal with those 677 I maan, it .946 m.y background is hardly capabla to handle {266$ in? . -W WENGAO CO.. NJ. 07002 . 21-9 3 13 14' lvi? 16I I cham1cals? Is that somach1ng that they 1ook at 22 ?'isf [11 :724a '1??6tc_e e6 9666 66. :6 which I woulVd 66 1c. and in f888- 8888 666666 thcy w6uld do 1: and cqpy me 16.> 1' you, Mr. MnPhiIlipa. Is 1: fair :6 say that ch. customers .pgcduct. was a question of safgty 1n toxicityQ or anything cust?mar? viewpo inc. Mr. McPhillips. 13 16 ?61: E6 683 chat 671 gthey whuId be by the of Mpnsante' 6 .616 Achwmicals 1n making a dctarm1nacion as to wheth?: 66 buy '6 when they 666166 whether chemical? W611. perhaps my qusst16n wasn brqad an6ugh '1-ch16r1naccd pheno1s in mak1ng 6 determination.whether to u6? MR. MUSGRAVE: Is that a Question? Is :h6: a quosti6n? That a ?uatamenn. I think I?you - '.Ic 16?6 question; Is that ?6 1: :6 say that. 61:? A. I N6, so. No. yOu kn6w. primarily if thaxnI vjof that 6666:: I was hardly an expert in that area to which I V6616 imm6diacely defer a question to the appxoPr16t6 peop1?.. Aga1n yen misu?deracood My quastioa. From_ th? 3818.:thay look 66.18, 'w6 u1d be by hazards taIating to hgaith asdoc1aeed withI?1"I ?Iy6ur product or to buy yOur produce. and by that I m6an Monsanto16'.1 r1366. -Thg:?6 andyouhadand You, ofcouraI 0/00; V'rum-j. Pinup co., among?; IL). ?10? .12? .13 14. 16' 171 18 '120' I :1 . 1 YerM awara 05 the whether 9: MM: Musromars buy 8 products would bM determinad 0r Mt l?ast 'i1n somM degrea by how they v1Mde 3 perthM w1gh 5127 important place. dan' get me wrong._ Mae of . pr1?1ng and performance 91 ptoduct. :hM avMile111My of 'Mche product. you.kpow. 1t? a mostly whan yoM sell, you.sM11 You' rM oer-Mmphas1Mng you re not oer-. you rM kang that M3 the driving forMM of the product 59'? 11. Mast pricM Mn .quantitites and gon relMtionaM1ps w1th customars product tMaM yen pa: out erM they woMld indeed.make no: to buy to health Mffac: s. ian' AI aura 18? sMall p1McM of 1t . Q2. A small Mf 1M7 I: p1McM Mf I yeah. 1: a ery Well Mr. MMPhiilips . A it 18 VMry 1mportMn= err Mi yMs. It 15 threshold er: You MM MMVM the I talking erM My parapactive.?1 1- I fihish my unMtion, sir and ail 257' . health hazMrd MM MM :hMir MMleyaMa. ea tMMir prospective? ulvvu? A 515;" ?17 er to 991 that product. 909199'9 999y. 31:7 31?s *9 3119', . 9f ?all during 999 9199 you did yam: job 199019: 99 chlorinatad . .520" 151}; . g?;p90699997 of 9991: 99939 of the product 9199. It' a 9991 rasponsibilicy 1999909929 wouId'w9nt to 99 99:19119d that :99 product 19 sa?119 {93919919 the means or 999 con?199s of :99 9:99 that :h9y' to 30193 ,V'to use 1: b9?ore thay would 9V9n 9999169: your 9:99999, wouldn'v? Ithay, 91:7 jw9r9 39193 to 999 19 for, :h9y wbuld d991d9 99 matter 99w 19 l-plcasan: 999 pri_ce 9139: be. th9y 99919 999169 or 99919 6991d1 ?p999019 19 cancarnad. 199' that right. 91:7 ASav'y That? a a pot99cial. but :h9y 9190 99V9 the responsi- . Ability ta aback :99 saf9ty of :91 product thommolvun in 33:33 I sorry. McPhill1ps. but I didn't ask you chan.9 f9A Oh okay. not thruScing my. qu999109 in that r99pgcc. The 9* Yes. sir. 'fQ. And if 999y that 1: 99s unsafe what thay 8919." QT And 9999' 9 909999193. of 999999. 9999 you were swarm A 31:? (Plaintiffs Exhibit 1552 999 999999 ?09 199991f1c991+ rogm 14? 7?15 17 18f 19" ""201 21 22, '.23 In: th1s :1mo.) 7 Exhibit 1552 and ask you if you recognizo that as a memo that ideals w1th ouggoscion or recommendation rather that you.mada to Mr. Clayton callis. (Pause)- "lby Mt. Ko111o that dealt with a recommendation made by you? but I'don' know who: -- A ?Cif 1t please the Court. 1 '1t deals with ponta. irrelevant and.1mmator1a1 to the lawsuit. 45 5 on m1no I th1nk I referred to it as 55. Ask yoo :o_look at ?f1552A and agroo with me that is a blowup of 1552? I hand you.now what' a boon markod as Plaintiffs '(P1a1n11ffa' Exh1b12?1352A was marked for idontifioaci would you ansWer my question, 31:? 81: I didn' understand you asking me a question. I'm Sorry. _I_was reading the mama. IQ I Do you recognize-that as a memo datad?M?roh 3rd. 1978 Yes. I roCognizo 1: as a rocommondation I made by mo. W311, that all I a3kod you now. MR. CARR: And 11 offer that oxh 1b1t into ovidonco, Any objections? MR. HUSCRAVE: Object: to tho-extent, your. Honor, that THE COURT: _It's a?mitted ovor objeotion. If you'wouldlook a: 1550 13 that 1552?. I put Yes, 1: is. on.) ruum ru?' amount. 1mm" _3331 'Qg1147: p1aca you' re compating with new? lv?i??il11 :11igis to hava to proVE ,0 ygur customars that dioxins are TEE?iifiEEw dEas Er daas nEt .E- CARR: 1552A 1f it please the Court. 1.5 MUSGRAVE: Same objection. THE COURT Same ruling. I New. Mt. McPhillips. this mama deals with an issue Efiis. .87 concarn relating to health affects or safety Ef on: of VEMEnsanto 3 chlorinated phenols . inn that correct. air? Yes, sir.' A, And the pargicular chlorinated phenol being discussed7"lw :at this time 15 the pantachlorophanol 133' it, sit? Yes, sir.?. 1? And this mama of March 3rd. 1978. better than a year ArbafEre the Sturgeon spi11 teak place, shows that in the market-:21 1Q And bacausa Dow ha has made an issue of tha Edioxin content of panta. that it? a considared by Mbnsanto inns? if} much as yEur product has more dioxin in it that yEu than arm _Acceptable? Do you see that. sir? Yes. but Dow' a product still has dioxin in it also. 122 i? Hr.koPhillips. I not asking yE to tell me whether 2' ?ijalong the lina Ef the queSt10ns I just asked you earlier. that?ffEE IUHM H. (4B Nd. _"10 ?n?I I12 "113.1; 14? '17. 18 ~1191 2r It was h1s though: that Hannanto now has to undertake I94 -back to provo than diox1no are accopcablg. 1sn? that correct, .?airzj and youkngw,?gxpounding on 1: a little bit. but that'a what 1:1_ 'sais y?a. 16 ?orgot. what was h1s posit1on at that :1mn? Ho was either a. f5: ho was on tha board or v1co president rea11y don' rocsli. I IQI . Tho po1n1 13 that your product had a h1ghor dibxin? A7 Yos, 11 d1d. A And tho monkoy acoord1ng to th1a memo 13 on Monsaneo'T' . 11A 1114??'t Ruby 1f the monkoy?s on our back. butfyoagi ?Wbll; isn?t that what the msmo say37- . Af?;??oah. but chht_ '?Ou?ro reading? tak1ng m?mb41' W111, I didn? 1 expound on it. I just quoted ?xac11y what 1: sa1d. Af Okay. .Q And what 11.mnano 1s 13 that Mr. 611113. he was, ob A 1 don't know. Ha had "sonny 16011.7: knowfIf A jQ wa11, whatevar h1a position was 1: was his thought 1' Ho was no v1ca prao1dan1 or on the board of Monsanto.. .r - ch. 96666 chazfdioxtns don?t 96666661" 1; 6 h6616h hazard. 1361_ '1 ?Obj?ct 66:6h6fqu6661on' n66 . 9.. 766u16 that b. corr?c:. s12? 261,51f I a HUSGRAVE: 063666 66 6h6 qu6661on. The-66666666 16 666 6n6bor6d by 6616 1ndividu61. 666666066. ho 666666 comm6nu '11 761_ on 6h6 thoughts 6f 6h6 writOr beyond 6666 1s 16 6h6 ?666 of 6h6 3,1 -g61':Gocuman6. and 6R6 docum6n6 6p66ks ?or 166616666661 66w 6666696163 66 66k 666661666 66 to wh66 666 66666666- says 66h6r than.what 16 66y: 1n sp66k1ng for 166611 66d 69666- and 36163 66 6h6 mind of 666 author 66 to what h6 66666 3?12 1? or didn? 6 6666 b6y66d wh66 16 666666 in 666 dpcument. i3 1. . 7 THE GGURI: ijaction 16 OV666616G. That's not what -1141. 666 question 6666..11 .115; ,1 A S1r. can you 669666 666 66666166 . I 6166'656666_16. ig31 I heard 6 366666666, I d1dn'6 hear the qu6661on. I I 1%If'1'. . RR. 66616 you 6666 666 qu6e6166 66 h1mIp16666.. 16118~1 (A6 6616 6166 tho court r6porter read back 666 1666 6 i611 I I A .:126:1' A.. On tha b6616 of 6h6 way you 66k6d 6666 66666166 I ?rsmuo 60.. 07062 g12fi- would h6vo 66 66y tho 66666: 18 yes. 16?12,61 Q1 - R6w, 6666rd163 66 6h1a 6666 6666 66666 6666 66666666 123~I;1a 3616s 66 u6d6rc6k6 66 study toxicology 6f 6h6 6166166; - 1;?4gf 66616 6666 b! 6 fair?stgtamant, 616? 1.9.. UAVUNNG, NH.- 101' i 7_12 jI: 1:i3 J4 :115, .161 11-19 . . 207 21' ?22 sz-? II'HbPh1111ps' recommendation. I don ovum know what my rccomr I mandation -- I don' understand the referencq to :h1s mamo.I I,about that. I ask1ng you about this mama. whether or no: Iv this mama means that Monsanto 13 going to have to undertaka tb 'study an: toxicology of the dioxIns 1n ordar to prova that EI?lzeady. Wk ware out of tha panes bus1nesa 1n Hatch I978. ,the business of manufacturing'It I We; air. Sir. 11 I can ask Wh11,what 8-- excuse ma, th18 1 don' tncall even what my 75- 1: says I sates w1th?I I That may be. Hr.HcPh1111pa, but I'm not asking you 8163193 arc acceptable? The dioxins in p&nta? 7. Q. Yas.I? I I Wall I don' know} because u: ware out of tho bus1ne you: penta you had-a you wore out of I A Yaa, 31:. but you warm 3:111 33111ng 1 axy n0t17' 10h. March? 7 A . A wouid you be making 1' -- ?perhaps :h1s mamI deals w1th tho fact that ycu' re not out of ch. chlorinated phenol businaas and yOu 'ra mak1n3 chlor1natad phnnols andj? NJ. 07001 IL un 101 211 .12. '14 '~321 22, '23. ?1scll1ng chum. Panza was Just 9% . Idiffercnt prcduct from the echo: chlorophcnola. ycu know. and 1ycu? re spaculat1ng 8180. and I dcn' agree w1th that. :Mr. McPhillipa. that theta cro d1cx1ns 1n 311 the chlor1natcd '7 c11 the ch1or1natcd 7d1cx1ns that war. in that. were from._whaz my understanding was 1css hasardcun than the chem1cc1 1taclf. As far as aha other ?ch1orophcnolc ?no d1cx1ns 1n 1: an that 11mg. - .1319 ?cPhillips. 3, A 81:. no ware t31k1ng panta and was a totally WI11. you agrcc w1th 1: or not this memo phenc1s and that was feund in 1979 that tharc ware d1?x1ns 1n jNo? 31:. that' no: a tru? staccmant. - 21m. 91:? I don?t th1nk there warn. There arc d1ox1ns_1n pentce 'chlorophancl and than was known fer a 10mg ctmc. The :ypc of of the s1tuat16n. and 1' no :ox1colcg1at, were tcxic or I I Hr? MhPhillips, maybs you didn' hear 9. . theta was i 2Q Maybc you didn' hcar my qucst1cn. I-caid-i? '79. 1 . I dcn? hn$w 1f 1 wculd agree w1th that 521:?mcn: . 54} . 'po1nts out that dicxins e- well. you d1d know or did you?know; <7 is? ?i?9 :0 .229 ?9'23 9. - 'You?rc 111.1u121 of 11-1979-11111 .331ur39on sp1ll Mpnsanto undertook to analyze. 96, A. Yes. 31:. I 6--I the chlor6phan613 and f6uud that dioxins ware I present 1n all phenols?_ v1 In 1111? i All tha chl6r1nuted phenols. Thar: was some a1sroprcsantaci6n of data. was 1 1111 data that 3666. but 1: was vary 66n ?11ct1ng in - terms of yco. :her6 was coma in there. and yes. there was not. A W6 ware analyzing 1n chi .111y par: of ?79. if I recall gand?wa found. yea; wa'?ound sons 1a.;he sample but 1111:1111 I raanalyza? and.?6und none; '7 M113M99h1111ps. are yb?_suggaaz1ng :11: y66 arg.not_.? as the man _mark611ng chl6r1natad phanols or hava a r6sp6n61-" b111ey. that you' :6 not aware of the fact that the ?6 that .you.?6und dioxins 1n your chlor1natgd phenols. in all of th?m?1 V'1n analys1s c6nducted 11 the first six months of 1979 by year 696mpetan: 6ham1sts? f' Yas. I?m swat: that wn found 1111 traces of 1161111 613 them, yes. 81:. Thin what?y6u 3311 -1 A 311%": f? I wars ibuhd;' .65 - @1397 PENGAD BAYONNE.- 07002 FORM IL 246 10"-.47_ 18 9'19 ""920 121'-" 22.: - 23 '-'phe9919 19 1979; you 999 aware 9f that. 9:99 '9 you, 31:? . 'Exact1y what nhdy warn 999:9. I 999 9 999911 912. 'thac d19x199 9:9 do you or 99: ansantc . under cook 19 :99 first par: of 1978 9 p199 9199a 92 pr9v1ng V9.9 99999139 to show that 9109199 haVa 99 health 9999:63. 999: - :hey 9:9 acceptable 19 9919:199999 999991 99999999? ryperf9ccly 9waro of what 19_s talking 99999.1 89916 you 99999: ?f'my q9992199. 31:. 81:, 1 ?99911 that that. was V991999 19v91s of 919319.- 3Q W911 than. you ware aware of A Yes. 91:. 1 9 I Haw. 999k 99 this 9999. 91:. As far 95 the proaf" 999: 9199193 9:9 9999999919? 99" Am.1 aware of one? Yes, 9 A 1 No? 912, 1?9 99:; Th9tV99939'9-9999 19199991: 6999._ 1 .9999 yau ova: 99 any mantiugjaf9ar Hatchf9? '78 99929 1: was 913993999 that H9999929 now has 39: to 9999rcak9 V399 this is talking about 619919 19 99999. .299. 199999..Hr. 9929111193. 3 A 999 that 4- 9 3?31!l 57911 Jun: 99:99:: my 99999199 9199891119 9' A 9' You.havu 29 r9999: ah: 99992199. 65' jthpuaa9ds 91 parts par 9111199 found 19 911 91 y99: 9919:199:ed"Jq 0/1001. . A a A 7113Af5 [1141:16- f167' '11f1771 figj?AA i19- '20 .1 Could you r666 :66 qunac1on :6 616 nga?n.? lisAA,'11 hat6 =6 5? 6 66166666 'i1? 766 could. just 113666 to my quast1ons. A WI ?6 116666163 to you. but 1 th1nk y6u A-- g9 ah6ad.l;7 -Eh16 6166 the court regatta: read back 163: [7 quastion 1 was involved 16 some 66661636 . y66. 61:. right,? Now at that 8166 you ware 66: of tho 7"66666"matk663~bu? you had-66 an 1mperzaneaparc.6? y66r166rk6tf . Santophen, (1166' you, 61:? 61:. And that' a a 6h16r16616d phano-1'1676 1: 31:? Yin. air. 1,30% 6166 had orthochlorephanolocruda? Yin. 511.. ?7 And yau 6166 had 2 4 d16hlotophenol wh1ch y66.66:6 76611163 66 others? A A lv-7"A - Y63..sir. iijQ? 7' 36w, 66 you know whether or not with r6gnrd :6 a ?~51 Athig study 6: th16 attempt :6 gnaw that 616316: at. acceptdb16.61" "d6 6: that 6616: 16 6666666 march 6f '78 and irbbruary 65 '79 66 y6u know or no: 66666666 engaged 516 any k1nd 6f 666:1ng program.o? 1:6 6hlor1nate phenols? 5A, You. 61:. A .257 i 14 . =I.San=ophan. parachlorophanol Wk d1dn?t hAve to 100k a: Sant0ph+n. 21' 1.2-. . is] ?6 A9 ".1?15 if 120 -.QQ: 722' 'n?f r1gh: about tug: same t1mn, 31:, we when we war. 9? 7embark1ng on the 3:10: of orthochlorophonol we analyzed thA orthochIOAOphnnol to: d1ox1na And ?ound none dntactAblc. 1mm you.wau1d havu to :A1k '44, you to gett1ng mg out my A11 x1ght.z What progrAm did 1: undartako? When as had orchoehlorophenol -- ch15 15 A continuodI-v A A11 right. now that a 1n March 01f '73? 7 Sir don' recA11. I: was in 78 somnt1ma._ I can?t raca11 that.> New. was theta and . 31:. And you ant1c1putcd 3 lvA I 1 think an Also 1ookad A: paraehlarcphanol and Santephsn Oh. you have sows tests of parachlerophenol? AMI: I uh1nk there was sown casts run or _thare was s?ma but you '4 have to to an: peoplA._' WA11, WA hava aha peepl? that: rAn thana nests. IQ Hr. manna?, 1a: A. play ?31: 7:11:11 you._ Wohava: j- Atafercnco, I nh1nk th1s mnmo 1s refarcuc1ng to pants but afcor '31' 111 thorn was anno detectable 1n para. there wou1dn bA any 1n :3 -- PENGAQ co? alumnus. ?o1ooz' roan IL 245 10 11218' .19' 20 '21 7 .22? 1? . to this IVVanII'thouovidonoo m. on? to? all tho wosdonoo 11111?- I right; All tight? A You. sit. 1 I oakIng you. whether or- not yon hows ony knowlodgo of whothot at not thorn was any tostIng that went on of tho 1 products this ohlorinotod phenols oftot thin noun woo wtitton to find out who: dioxins woto or woto not 1n your ptodncto? A And we found. we analyzed - Excuse me. Do you hove snob knowlodgo. 311:? A . I. - A11 tight. And when . AV And that was the cube. I undo reference to that. Do you havo any knowlodgo othot than the ottho?l A . I thought during that some than now nnybo thoy -- .5111 tho onolyaio of tho doth thoy lookod at the and thoto' conoidotohlo mount of potaohlotophonoI In tho ortho. and thoto was none detectoblo . so I thInk noybo tho I v, again, you? to gotting no out of my otonn. . Wail, I just want to ask you whothot or not you know - of anything othot than than two of . I A I don? too-.311 how many omloo thorn worn. I Now -- well do you know onything othot thon A 1 r. noon. . LU 110 I I 127.?, '13- 11 152,1. 1'16 :7 ".119 20' 21 1 ..23 [2311:191:11. that. Amer-111113 to 1111111 name you know aha: aha dioxins ara 1. 11131109: 111 your panaa, and asking you whoahor or no: 37011 3' hava day 11911113. other than aha Reiohhold and V111-can. and they specifically to find out; do you ahaa. . . -s1zzI-s' A A 1111.. It waan' 1: 11111111111113 that: Monsanto did on 11:: own . initiativa? on 11:11 own. -Q I Want to know bacon? that: was a apoci?c customer _.raq11oaa a: aha: time. A No. air. We analyaad airaady and one customer rogues! 3'1: add than nuboaquana. about 1111 tried 110 2111: to another 11mg;- another 111. 1. Mr. McPh?lipo. do 7911 have any 1111111131 that yo11? 33d analyzed 1mm. the onIIy exhibit that: we haw 111 evidence A a 1 1:111:11 4- I May Iii-111.311.1113? 11111111111133. Iha only axhihia wane 11an 31a vavidanca 111 that. was analyzed 11:11:11 customer? a - mum. Bayou haw 1m I don a ruca11 :11 .j al V. iL.? 2. C0.. EAVONNE. N.J. 07002 v.21, 6o? snowmen: than a contnary no the ev1donco than no how. and nondor1ng 15 you how such knowlodgo. no any o?donoog tooth; was done other than at tho Ispoc1?1o roonose-V of a damn? food the date of $1313 nono-up- ont?. 1979? know thorn was or- not. is 91:, If you don' knon 1t, 11: could how token 4: thousand times and yon don' t: nocosson?y hand to how; knowledge -153z5n?33*? All. night. IA whatnot 1t: nan pa: and: room: or what. I . Thot' a ?nd reason to asking. bacon? yon' to making MR. MUSGRAVE: I objoot, Tho summon: tho vim? II dado 1f Hr. Conn would hovo liatonod I don' 1; think 115 contrary THE COst Objoouon 1n overruled. Non,- do yon hang: any knowledgo. Mr. Mo?hillips. and: A Paton tho of oh1o mono? That's correct. 81:; .A 81:, I don t: box that doosn noon whether I on word of that. I as looking whatnot or not you may. A That-"I a tron. IQ But: 1' nsking nhoohor or no: you hone day such knowl- PENBAUIQM DMUNNE. ?Nm um? qum YM- 'uu ~1o_ 11.57 '216 T11- is: 1.19 .12261: 2,71] 1'22:- tff24zoul beroquasts on the 1ostanoos wo just d1scussed. 133' that cerroee. I ;s1r2, 131,1 1n tho various chlorophonols and found none.? Wu onaIysod 1n -: '73 and Wm found none. Why do. you.cont1nuo to analyze when you don find anyuh1ng2 a no: thorn. we d1dn't texpooc 1t .1n that: as a rosult of tho Sturgeon spill. 7 Ithat_1t?s thoro. do you. sir? All right. A I don't rocall. "g Now. chore wasn ?e any program that you' to aware o? r';thon. as I undorotand it. that you.havo knowledge of today that' Juno undartakon 1n.'78 to find out whether or not you: chlor1nat+d *yes. but I don? agree with the way you asked me that quast1on._" IQ You don' agroa with tho w1zh what part oi 1:2 . Bocause we analyzed earlier pr1or to ?78 for dioxins to ha in thora.? It was much to our surprise whoa wo found somo; Mr. HhPh1llips You just don? 1 keep looking a: somethIng at least my th1nk1ng 1a .Q Lo: mo givo you ono reason why you.wou1dn?t cone1nua teat1n5.. If you don' f1nd 1: share, you don haVa tho knowloLga I 7 myoa-don?c ?nd yonoon?o find The way you.phrosad that quantioo. I go: to_ answer g7phanoia d1d or did not havo d1ox1n levels other than tho customo11,? .13, HEM rwoAu?co? M-vouuz,? orouz worm un _10:05 21: 22' 1.23_ 2.4 .1110. And 11 yEu dqn' ?1Ed 1E chars. you dEn' havE the knowIadgE tbs: 1E 13 Ebert. do you,l_91r? If 11 you" dEn?E adk1hg you tested somEEh1ng se-f I. I You' ta mEking a to ma.? you EEsEsd -- 1 a: Mr. 116211111198. do you; Ehink that: "the :hEmisEEy of rmaking pEnEa? Imak1?g phenols remainad the sama in all baEEhEs? A I'Sir, I answer EhaE quEsEiau. Don? you.know' I I don' know question. E1E. I Or do yau'knaw >7 n" I w1ahad I E0u1d. but I don' kuaw. Mr. MEPh1111pa. do you know EhaE It can EEpEnd upon how much causE 1E was added at whathex caustic was EddEd 1E I d1sagrca w1Eh Eh: Ehnt you kaEp saying Eo_ depend upon Eempaxaeura, 1E Eda daptnd upon aha accuracy of? the: op?ranE 1? Eaking the pan1Eu1aE cue EhaE he to Enka? ouE; do you know all those things? NEE t9 be an expert 9n 1: Iik? you.are. 91:. no. Well, HE. McPh?lipE, E: ?manly n61: an f. ?may 0,9? Nd. wuw 10 ~12? II _13 3.16 . I :21 3.213I IWhat I know about 11 13 what v3 133rn3d ?36m tha ddcumaneaI 33nd th3 t' a the rcason I?m ask1n3 you. 31:. whath3r or not you ?33k1n3 mo 3 qu3st1on teaally out ofjmy ?1314, -s1r. -s3y you don' know. I 333': find on: that 13?s tharegsw111 you, 31:? ?Yog 7 1c' 3 there w1thou: 3332133. 11, anaIyz3 13 . don' 3 you, 31:7 ?3-333: 323 13 3v1d3333 bdra and from the :33c1mbny of th3 w1?n33363, 31mp1y b3c3usa you :33: 13 on 033 day, 1: decan' n3c33sar1L mags th3c 13 won 't 53 :h3r3 the next manah. does 31:? . A. W311. I th1nk chars more to 1: ch33 that." You' you don't know, Mr. McPh1111ps. just sImPlY I dan' know.I AII right. Bu: 1f y6u don? :33: for you.obv10u31 I 1 31:33:33 w1th the 33y you' r. putt1ng.that 3331333331 5m I 11333133 w1th how yau? 13 mak1ng you'r3 making .I 3 533133331. you :3 n33 '3 A11 r1ght. Tb 113d someth1ng 13 theta you h3va to W311. yau.tasc 1t -- - Excuse-me; .Wbuld you answar that questi3n.'. A 135. If ya? 133 333:. than you 333 'u ?136 eh3t 12' 3 ther3. {7.4 A "in: 1?11?? 3?5 PM ?119 '3033333 .3 3333. A "33p31Aou3??nn 3333.303 3130A 1 ?33q3 A933 3 309 1 'v?l 'Aou3,noA 33 33; av '301333Ab Am a 3333 1133 "b 3 I ?3?33 Mop I ?7 -;.nsaA anaqSAoaq3 113 apem 2313q 33A,13333d0331333333333333_* A3A 3333 sq: 3p3m 33133 33A 31 ?Aoua?noA 33 33; av 'b i"zte ?naua 2.333 V- L333 331A pAAaddsq 33133A33 33333 33A 'Aog '31: '33; I 1.33q3 A933 op_ncz *333p ca-unap :1 80134 01391 ?Aiarq I 3333 ?a 305 9 3w: 311111.983 II 33A 31+A3q o3 33?f1 1313 ?31 3 333A 3333 333 3933 83133 1333 3333 3333 31 sq 33 313019 33333 03 qaawq 331331333d 33?_1 1313 3 nap '3333 A033 op noA 139333339 31 333' 3333 oan 31 3 A 313019 3333 3313dzns 130A 03 33Aons1p p13 noA 'ub1as3nbl . 3333 33 331333 33 30A .33 331A.3338331p 1 333 A33 . 331s ?noA ap 'u1xo1p 3333 303 soap :0 3339 .393: zeuzeqarnguov n05 n.u?p noA par east 30 avn?uvf7 I331 3,3333'3anp03d'3 30$ 331noA.g1 08 1313 Jz?f A .91] z. 731A- va . ti ;_z1 . I ?or ?an uum zoom 'r'pIJ -"03 av'smaa rerun-u. tab PENGAD CO.. BAYONNE. NJ. 07002 14_20:4 22' 23] 24 know that Lt was thors Ln January of ?79, don wo. oLr? From rho analysis of. I gun so Lr,was EPA. and 1 guoos coma subsoquanr we found sons dioan in thoro. you, '_eLr. . . . You do know that Lt was found 13 the 2 4 chhlorophont ?Ln Fobruary '79; you.know'thar. goo. don' you. aLr? A Yeah. but wasn rhoro some oon?1ict1ng data 4" 76? Q- Excuse me. could you answor that quostLOn pleaso. er.. *Gn one analysio'thero yes. ?13 12 your belLof that 1: woo just one analeLs? A- think wo ombarkodu- --. if I recall. sir. wo embarko+ on a very thorough analysis of trying to find the lovnls of r- 2 dLoans in tho product an? soc 1? they represented a hazard,' 1.336 studies wont on for great length. 51;. I don? know the _?dotaLLa. I I I I IQ. I'm askiog you who ther or not you whether you' know=rhar L: was just one analysLa rhar found rho Tenn Yas. rhora was somo analysis. yrs. 813.? 1Q You do know that Nebraska found it and you rho: your laboratory found it Lnr2. 4 d1 AC Thoy found adma. yas. air. There was some lov313,1 bur waan chore was dLsorapancLos as data? I don' recall. wall. you can see in the you are aware of ch; 2' face that song of your 2 4 spiliod Ln rho p1ant Ln.Fobrunry~1 I .. i "new co.. snows. NJ. ovooz? roan nL'ua' 10 11 ,12? .13, :15 17"\ 18?. . - 1'9 .20 _9 21? >22" 1.123; :7j9?7?792 A A .Q 3A first 9 all 083A analyzed 1: and 3313 1t' 3 got 333 parts per - A A ?an. Could identify that exhxbiz; Hr. . ER. CARR: 1121A. m. museum: 1-1317 ma. sang: _1121 and 1168 and 1169. Ybu say a spill 1n-Fabruazy7. A spill took place in February of ?79 at the-plant; .2.4 d1ch10rophnnol? Yas. >1 diAn? knaw that. air. I'And you didn?t knew that Habraaka analyzeA 1e. thAc.i>V billion, ha1? of whidh 1s 2 3 7, 8 thay analyze this? . Excusa me Mr. McPh1111ps. Do_yon know thati'sir? AGSHA analyzed it? was. I don't recall'that. sir, "A:A'you awars of it?s baan a long Aime. I?mxnot say1ng I Agog 1t, but I don' reca11 1t. At Dayton Ann1yzed 1: and found 479 parts per Af Are yen aware of the fae: that yen: own laboratorias.f TAA77T-I 10 11- ~12 13? 14 1351, '1623- ;557 parts pa: b1111en of Tenn. 494 parts per b11110n of TCDD. -and 489 pate: per h1111on of n?you 1n market1ng ware aware of the fact that your own laborator+ ??1n the not only 1n the 2.4 dichlorophannL, but 1: waa.alsa faund in the _.qu1c%1y changed the process to solva that. if 7611. Wald. - A ,xm 251.551.3111? 311'. ?78? A . Thac' a what 1: says. 31:. 1"m asking you. 31:. I know what 1: saya. and 1t' 8 been.1n av1dance com: timn. asking yam whather or no: ?b und that in you: 2 A d1chlorophanol? A We faund some lavela - my quast1ou 15 are?you aWara.H- A Tax. 31r.' thid was 6: do you this 13 What was 6911196 in February of '79? - no. I was not aware of the 39111 in February at '79 1n the plant. 31:. I Ara yen awara af aha face that 1: was found not only A Of natraa? Yes. A Thara' var1ous lavela. yes. 31:, but I think we Q. Mr. Mt?h1111ps,71f you dan?t mind. just limit yauxg PE-NGAD VC0.. BAYONNE. NJ. 0700! FORM IL .246 10 ll' 12' '13 i4 . 1'67'23 V54- . Bacauae yau tol?:m3 -- . . A in marketing. I hava a tendeh?y thtalk a I You told me earlier that yen didn? knew that you 7?bund'dioxin in your all f79.<713 311; you know -- Excuse ma. Mr. McPhillipa. ?3 Go ahead. ?And you do in fact know that dioxin was fauna in ;11 2f? of your chlorinated phancls in "79. don' -you. 81:7 A Yes, there was sown analysis of that. but there Wan - also sown analysis of some samples, weren't there. than said 1 thera?waan? none in chars. too, right? You' ra g1v1ng half the 7 staty probably. ?'fQ Mr. McPh1llips, belisva me. an hava thousands of exhibit: hate. the full story has 1f I am ask1ng a Quast1a that yau think gives half the story. your lawyar here has the I. opportunity to clarify A Yaah, but why do you only givn ma ha1? the story._, Becauaa, Hr. McPhillips A I maan. 12's bean six years. TEE COUEI: hr. MCPhillips. answer the quasaion. 1 Don?t make any abeus that ar your opinions abaut that. I-They ara not :alevant, thny arc not part of tha quantion. thay 'l 339.393 pxopar. Yen: attorney W111 have an appartunity to askV $09 ?313 '3993V333_3o tarp~933?3ou 'paxn3?ay?um?,j 333 33339033 333 $3339 333 323 33333 33:33 333:313A1393q3_3' 43333 asa??ns o3 nou.313 33033 .313 no 3951 an 3331 on 33333 away 3339 max; 3333: 33133m3ozu1 . 30; '3311113333 '33 'sstduns 33: u?uqa 393," ,5 135113133393 66. 51133 3315.113: 01.3.03 11 -- 3333 831339.113333 1 11 '31s ?13130333 333'331351333 3;?3 3A A93 30 301 3ocnb 3 '31351333 aqn u1 sm31qoad amos can I: 33333 ?31 I13333 I 3? '3339 3333I0a303 81 33933 333 ?3 1). -- c.9303: '3313019 30 qaunq?31ena.3 3.33333 '3333 v. 931331350?51 {33399;3333 ?iEu1pu1; 3u13q at 3333 33301133 933 39333333333u1 3330113; 31' I '31 3933 ?azogaq as c1soq anus 333 no ?znt sq: 33 31q1333 3333 ?1 13313039 on ponnua3 sq 301333qu ?3 3 01 :3Avaasnn ?33 I I 10313019 10 uo1111q zed s333d spuscnou3 033 31 sq 03 e3anpoadx ?mow 31 su1xo1p 13303 venous 31 saanpozd yo 913513ua= 1-5.. Act: 533C m: a: hymn: a 1 Ma 1091 8: rm: 6461 at 39q3 333; 333 1 0 oawAn ?05 339 ?361111qaau '33 0 '301801063 33 'suo13 snub oqz saunas aunt A03 13333 03 333m?pnr 5' ano? 303 3,31 '30133u1maxa 93633 s1q3 was; 901313313 3Q 03: p333 31933 193013333033 :13 31 33 333A 8301390nb 532 9"'03 'f'N ran/n 010'sz 10' ll 2 12 1.19, 20. '?zi 7.523' rmanufaecuxed in ?79 had 18v813 of 8:1 and tatra 6103188 and ..to:81 d1ox1ns in thgm. 13 1: not a possib111ty, 81:. 11 you -1 8188' 8xnm1n8 ymu: product or test ypur products 18 betwagn :MArch of '78 or Apr11 of ?78 I think 18 the latest. and 1n all of thosa pxaducts 88183 manufactured in '73? 1' View of the face that you found than 18 '79? 898881888 as :8 that. -:ha way yea ta laading me down the path, 1 38t 88 answaz that .,quest1bn yes, but I d1sagraa with it, 812. ?8888 888?: . swam-2.112 A 08., Q. . ?aw; M8. Mbrh1111ps. 11 these products that warebc1n? MR. MUSGRAVE: Objoction. In V188 of the fact if 8818 exhibit is correct. 1n MR MUSGRAVE: Object. specuiation and conjectuxa. 'Iaa fbundaaian that :818 witn?ss 88818 have the 8888:8188 avan ?888._ 8.1 T88 way you' re ask1ng that qugstion I to . 88, you di??gtag .. A I -Yan?re ?shing _8r. MePhillips. may I ask yourthe quastidn.l 20? IEE 8888!: 08ject1on is ovnrrulad Itidoes 88: 8811:' :31 4 February of '79 188' 1: possible, 31:, that ybu had dioxins-Is' ?rEucAn toy-"snows; 0100:, Form IL 243' r_ 6 _14616;;16 3,613612166 "5_17236,5, {21690 I diaagrea? . 1; You disagrea. y6u' r6 saying 66;] . d66? kn6w 1f they 6:6 or not, 813.666lr, Isn't th6c'I 1.6 I assume 1f?we generated them. 61! 6?66665676: 66~Aasumn that thay 6:6 correct.- ,6 6 :116Yaa. 61: . And your knowledge 66116 you that 11*61: V66 found 16 1979., 666: it 66611 hav6 been theta 16 ?78, and 1f .jfi?;7jjnevar have known 16n' that correct. 61:2 ?65665; Hat 61:. I can reverse that6 for you.61 6 Q1 Excuse 66, 66616 yen 66666: that question. jif fnhat, yea, 61:.f6 Haw, Mr. 1666much as y6u had not dons 3(1615661t66cing'with your products 16 prior to Fabruary 6f '79 '66j861i1you personally w6r6 surprisad by :hg fact th6c 1t wa3 faund ?tf6jg7;f.there. 66:66 yen. 61:2 I?3chat there 666 66 testing 9:16: to January 6? '79. and that' 623162567-contrary 66 611 evidence._ Other than what 66 'v6 mentioned. :6 TEE coax: 6626 that addition. ovarrulod. F6wa didn 6 test 1n '78.1: ?6u1d h6v6 been :h6r6 n6 w6 would ?6-66'6 6:6j51676157f6f Th6 66y yau 'v6 aaksd 66h6: question you could 666666; 6 6666 MR MUSGRAVE. Objnc: to th6:.6 Th6 qucatian assumo6fg?6366 10" 12f"2i 22' 23? 241" 13 Iqaagtion.) ,mada.- MR. That also contrary to the av1danoe, .r ydux Monet, Other than what th1s gentleman might remembar I think would be tbs-appropriate question. I_objact to THE 6062?: Objection is ovarruled. you anstr tha questIon, 31:. 81:. there is no dioxins in 19 -- wh none analysed? "Iot the product 13 1976 in ?78. Mr. MoPhillips. you didn' I1sten to my question. :Would you liaton to my question please. A I'll listen to your question. CARR: Gould you road qu93t1on to him. (At this Mina the court repartar read back the last MR. Eepoa: aha Mama objectiou'as previou311_ COMET: Same mung. A Well. I disagr?e with your statement._sir. MR. GARE: Your Honor, would you dirMot the witness" A. And Iw111.~? THE COURT: Mr. HePhillipB -- A but to answ?r the quesz1on, yai. CEURI: Wait a second. Mr. MMPhillips. I havo I told you, and I'm.not going to tell you aga1n. Answ tithe 783' "?96662121.,? . . 551,333 1 . 13 ff436 49.1564 3 4. 1.7 (#33 3'3 Exhibit? itvquastion.* You: 616636666666 with 653 quascion. 656 66y y6u :Afbeen stating 656 613636666666 '55- 4' 4 4 T58 WITNESS: I56 way 56 askad 66 656 quastion [55-5714 6'63' THE CGURI: ._hi 1: not proper. Just 663666 H.656 qucg~36li634 MhtEGr 6 ?3663 you wrote a 6666 expressing Adidn 6 you. 616? 4 6&1 6SYes. 812._431 3 3 . And I d1dn' 6 make up this 66663 611 I 31:? 4(What'memo. 616? :2Y6u prepared 656 6666.16_f [61Wha6 ?ame?- ".766661864 - di?n't 66y I wrote a 6666 6? 3&29218866- d1dn' 6 say that y6u just 66666 a memo expressing 5 566666166? 64 sf?ifv You 661d that, sit. 61546" 5Q 163N63 I 6616 you wrote 6663 6166 6 yau3 616'?} 6665666 Yeah, I $6666 I did 316. yes. 66 4 I 666Yas, y6u did. 64 4 6 CARR Wbuld ydu mark that as 6 Plaintiffs 3-sts3The 6666 that yen 6616 6566 you?wroce 6x66666163_y666, . (A6 this 63.66 Plaineiifa' 333133333: 1553;331:1155 3Awas 3 10 '12, 13 . 14 15 16_" 17 . .18 "19_ ?20 2.1- 22? 23 .24 mafkad for iddntification.) 'Plhintiffs' Exhibit'1?53 and ask you, 51:3: of all, is 1533Aj _i a blowup.af 1553, sir? I r?b:uary 20th. 1979, 31:? if 1: please tun Court. all, inadvertent error. You say 809 parts par sit? ?cPhillips, 1'11 hand you-now what?s been A It l?oks that way, 91:. CARR: Offer Q. Ioh, do you recognize that as a me?b made by you-aazed A Yes; 91:. MR. This is 1553? an. saga: It is. Offer 1553 and 1553A into gvidgn?a__, THE covnm: Any objections? an. Ha objection, was count: Admittad'without ?bjeetiea. (Exhibit passed to the jury.) . mt. merhilxipa. this -- in this memo? -- _f1rst ?ff million. In fact, yOu?maant 800 parts per Billion. did you A Sir, I ?an?t.know. I mean I dan't_raea11. I Egan, this 15 1979, sir. a?d I I'don': recall. Will, 1st ma_refrash your the only rcasen is_aamabody gave ma that 5 I 28:51?- 9.. .1103"; 1111 i?6?'1 17that I take 19 :9 mean that 3599 were. that you}! . .- 1 11,999 999 according to Exhibit 1301A :99 total dioxins 19 :99: ?.ta?k 99: 19 824 parts 99: billion. You 999 that, don you.'h' 'f;;91r? par b111109..11 189919 y?Iu do that. 91x? '1f- W911. you might 99v9 heard 1 :Im1111on. In fact. y99 ??Al I'sae 824 but I don? 9 999 any raferanca to the parts. R1gh: up there, ppb. Oh. okay.9 Th9r9 1: is sorry.'I .91- $9 99119 your 9999 describes 99 880 parts pet I: m1111on 19 999: 9999 99:, 19 ?99: I want you to assume that yoan.' w999 19 error, that 19 If.99: 1: 999 809 parts 99: b1llion. :MfThank you. A sorry? IA . 91r. 12_ 115939;;11' 1?1N9w, in this iIf1 1 . . 3' 299999: 999 never 9999 the b999.A" m.sorry? I. I I 1 My grammar has n9V9r baen ?99 b99t. 5'3" finding, 999 5:1 you, sir. of dioxin? 1 jf Y99, 91:. 1-1195-11I .Qf?QIMr.McPh1111ps. in 1553 yQu 99989 that 19' 9 a surPr19Q ?115 16 '417 18? 19 20 21 ?22 23? 'v,24, not just you. that you any hara that you were surprised; isn?t that right. sir? A That 3 what I said. yas. 81:. And now, you make the suggestion that you ought to 'Jahalysa for dioxin 1n PCP and 2.4 dichlorophanol and Santophena 1.1. don?t yen. air? A Yes, sir. I do-say that. And shay acCaptsd. whathar tbqy?d1d it chausa_you racommendad it or did it for some other reason, ahey?d1d 1ndecd' ra~ana1yze their product, d1dn' they. sit? A. I Sir._1 think they already started bafo:a by-tha ?tims I wrota this mama that was already starcad. W311..1a any avnnt. shay d1d ana1yza 1c, d1dn?: they, i?sir? Av 31:. Mr. McPhillips. you point something out here - that I asked you of earlier. that 13. the selling of y?ur chlorinated phauols to your customers would be adversely 11f they can see that that: wars health effects in the ch1orinat "phenols that thay bought from Mbnaanto; do yqu see that, 31:7. A- Yes. 81:. I see that. Now A I di?n?t say health-affoczs-though. sir. _.weli. what athar?reason-would thay nct.wunt_tobuy 87 PUNM (1. tin PENGAD NJ. 01001 ?23 2'4. ?Youx7matdria1 with 1f thay found on: that-dioxin was in 1: 'othar than haalth affects? 'zdacuion. ?amot1ona1.doosn't it. air. but it? das11ng with health affactb; .. isn't air? "demage the?sale of you. 31:. as's?gtea 1n.? A $11. thty could just be just emot1onal. just cmotiohaL . Tha1r amot1ons would be associated A I Whathor 12's foundod or not, 51:. Q. 1 Tho1r emotion would be associated with the fact that their inat1ncca would call them. their emot1ons would :611 than thay don' want to be contaminated with diox1n. Thac.makas 1: If ?bers 15 a haalth affact If7ahera is - 1 but just becguseAthsre's diox1n in 1: ?3 1? x: h: Excusa ma..Mr. McPh1111ps. 'If there is a hgalnh1af?cct . If there is a health effect. 'Your customats, and wh?thor there 15 - I wou1d be also. sir. Mr. McPhillips. would you let me finish my quasu1on. #3 >11 I apologize, 81:. _You beliavn that because of the way aha customers 1aok Ant diexin and?health effects on dioxin that ehis could acriausly IUNM IL co.. anvormz?. Olool 19"' 20 21 '22 23 4.24.. Ithis mama? .4 but I am afraid Ichi? is net the.?dsa with our PCP. S?l-cuatomara and the raacticn could bc_dacermantal to our business from a SRIQS 4dan't you. sir? ?iexin in your product would-make them not want to buy it ba-' chlorophenol cdmp1e$ he lacked a: :6 aVOid anothar surpriaa'and' I also to cake hecessary action; if any, isn'? that corracc. 81:2} 89 A way ydu asked that question; yes, sir, yas.\ Is there any other way? Y?u mean: that - you said. Sir. you' re asking - ?Mr. MbPhillips. la: ma finish my question plaasa. ?3 a- Yes. ?You said in this mama, did you not, b?t I am.afraid envirOnme?tal siandpcint. period; and oquuotag'you say Yas. sir. I say that. And you're making that ?nan?ment in this mama baeause. you a: that tima'balievad that of? causa of possible adversa health effacts. isn't that cbrract, sir? A .4 The potential axisted. air, but I think f3 . ?Isn' that correct. sir? A ?Yes. sir, aha way you asked me that question. yaa. 314. And you because of that racommandad that th?-ancixa r, . . ,5 . a PENGAD co.. BAYONNE. 6700511:0 -21. ?22 21. 24 AI _Yos. sir. .Q ?ow, was one of the possible actiohs chit might be - btaken. would that be notifying oustomors that dioxins were.1n the product? A That that would be one of the actions? Yes. A That would be ona of tho actions if the dioxins in the product reprasonted a hazard in the use of the safety of I the product. yos, sir. only if it was a human safety or omih?nt_ _hazard. Another one of the actions might be to ohouga tho Almanufacturing process as it existed in order to eliminate as ?lmuch as possible by that change tho formation of dioxin? A . Yos. sit. IQ Any other action that you ch1nk of that you might _hava moon: by tho words "tako necessary action"?: . A I can?t think of any right now. sir.v Row. time Lana'and Fink. Sterling Drug Compan . Ono of their ?ivisions. you were haVing a diffioul ?z1mo with Lane and Pink canvinciog them that they should st1ck :"w1th Sancophon, woron tyou. 61:? A Yos. 31:1 HR. MUSGRAVE: Point in tint bei?g? In.'79, early '79 a: the period-of -I;I?gle(Plaintiffs Exhibit 1554 marked for A5VQC Handing you Plaintiffs Exhibit 155A and ask dd you ICA- C-Agcognige chA first of a1L isI what will be 155AA a ff blowup 0 . It looks that way. sir .., . (Plaintiffs Exhibi' 1554A EAA FR CARR Offer 155A and 155A A 15 1t the Court- THE COURT Any objActicns? AAIOQ. MR CARR: I hAvAn givAn you a coyy. got divertad Il?If .5 MAR. MESGEAVE WA wou1d object on thA bAAis thAt it 3Hi3 ~C'deals with Santophen, that 1t' 3 AftAr thA 39111 yAur anor,r"? ._i473:11t A irrelevant And immaterial And not prAbAtivA on any issua?Af?C" .is-i .whan weighAd against other considaratians.: THE COURI It' admitted AVA: objection._? IL 140? - . - (Fxhibit pasAAd to thA jury. VAEQ "7 NT McPhillips, in- thA Axhibit that AA looked At. 1553 the one dated February 20th, ??79 I-- "hxzofe' lA5f? YAA. sir. rmmo IIAVONNE. n.1, 0mm Ybu racognize that your business be. your phenol business cotla bA hurt quitA bAdly if the i3 customers laarned AREA if there was in fact dioxins in your ?fig5Aii?h103iAated phanols and if your custowers learnA? af :hA presunnc" \x . no 1 runs]; uu., amen-u. um.? '7710. . r/ 13 .2039 _-127 ?W153"i1554 that 13. Lane 99d '1916119' 1 317_3: i-18 19f '1-223 23' :9 of dinning 1n the chlorinated phenols. ?idn you, sir? ;597 That was a potential conoarn, 51 r, yes. sir, but 1: 'Vwasn' something we wore going to hide W91 1, I question 1459(1' 1 You r9 ropra 39nt1n39?99;9191. ?9 9Q91 W9 question spacif cally is you recognized at that; vot1m9 in Februa 9 of '79 that if dioxins were present in yourj? 'chlor1nated phenols and 1f the customers learned of that b'presance 9our busioosa would b'aW hurtCould be hurt. '91 . A Could b9. 'T?a 9 was a p031tion that 1 felt was 'vi31739933,91r. Not all customors. but a potential threat, 99s, 31 -Qx ono important customer 1; discussed in Exhibit I Yes. sir .- VWQ 9 L999 and F3nh was a very 1mpor?ant customer of your orocasa, wa?n 't 13. Sir? 9 Sanrophen 1 product, 993, 31:. 5179jl9'31M a safaty 9f the garnacides made 13 the ilk-i from a phenol lib,as'9, 9:99 3 they, air? 1.7-: A Phonolic. yes, 'fQ1 And they hAra or in 1554 9:9 concerned with th? po s-79*? 2?29. roan IL 243 07002 - rzwcAofcou-3A?o-?. NJ.I 1*?1121 l'111311 ?+202i? more 3- 'QWoll the environmental 7 .Vzagy, Thay' re concerned for environmental -- environmental aspect, when you ta1k about 1?1monta1 Safety you' re only talk1ng about it insofar 3 8 1t'sD1" going no affect the ultimate health a: human beams, area ?*5you,,sir? Eventually. yes, s1r, but 1t' 3 H.7QY Yas.? So when one wants to- .1 ?whon One 13 taiking' 102:11about the anvironment that ha lives 1n, he' wan'iag to 11Ve "n1vI?1nIan environment that havo harmful toxic substances i1n 1: That? the reason you' re try1ng to protect tha environ- 'ment, 1sn' that correct, 51:7 That' 3 par: 0? air. wo11.an important para of isn? air 7 7 r? >7 ?-IYas, 31:. -I1 Mattar of ?1515 weryI no mo, tho EPE -menta1 Progaction Agency, isn't that correct, Yes. 81!. And you mentioned the importance of that issua and YQIzrg?fthe safety _on the environmental is sues when you.montioned _I,zi11fdioxins, don' you. Sir? 1I 1A1YI Say that -ag31n. :1 I1Q: You recognized :he importance of tha environment and 2'4 6. PENGAD cq.. ?mung-NJ; 01002 "'1123 .- *13f11 . 1?4 ?1 "for lunch? I235 [1117f11 I Tsafety in the environment when mentioned diaxins and 9Q: Q.j1t under the cathory of environmental issuQs, dQn' Iyou,_ 81:1 Yes. 31:, but I hav? a question mark behind th,Tv= 8117? Question marks.? - question mark at point 13 yQu' re th ch '0 5CIsurQ Qt aha timQ that dioxins 1n yen: ochQr than 'TIfthQ OCP that was tested 13m thab'right, sir? 1' A unstio? ?ark THE COURT.I Er. Cer, is this a point tQ IIbreak MR CARE: YQQ, yQur it 19., Chat 'rQ n9; that T.ngQ youT earliQr will apply during *his erQk also.? could I- 7 you a: anch er just p1$a$? (A: .Qis timQ the jury left the courtroom and ffollowing procaa?ivgs 'Qre had at the bench. ?QQ1Tg1fwith this witness something abQut courtroom.etiquetca and T7Af*x I was, st, in that imQ ta'lQ. st . 91r.v - At that po1nt in timQ Qtill unstion mark 1 THE COURT: Ladies and antiean. we 11 erak at this_..? itim?. --wQ will IQ ?me again sleek, vamind THE Okay I would suggest thQ: discusa- HH- PLNUAU LU?aiting until a'quastion is ackad to respond and answaring the q?eStion that?sasked? MR. museum; Okay. THE covar: I chink?it would be in his and 2 lrit?Would be in y?ur interebts since there 13_a motion pendi?g' .- .2ab0ut_ask1ng that you be held in contempt for this type aegio?ybefore. ma; HUSGRAVE: will talk with-him. mncoums~ Okay, fine. (At this time Cour; recessed for lunch.) JOHN . rgsuming aha witne?s stand. having been prsviously sworn, 'tastified further as follows: Give the witness Exhibit 1326 please. f' 2 Pl?intiffs' Exhibit.- Mr. MQPhillips. coula 1 have MR. Tha_jury hag been passed this-exhibit once: :during the ethinationfof Mr. Edwards, and I ?oaft think thay" ihava their axhibics With them. 69 I have another.copy mada for A?the?.? COURT: which number is that?_ MR. CARR: 1326. vTHE?couar: Thaak you. ., 9:5. - MIL 07.001 DfJoi 5' 39i?199_ ID?gjgl . 9920 I, ?97 '21: .124 :R1tha 9 correct, 31 r? fearlier with you. that 1 5, the fact that V9th9 presence bf 9:5t1nuation of those chloroPhanols. 69999 51:? 9 It states th?t. yes. sir. :jchough 1t daas no: present any health hazar?; do you see th?t. *sir? .31r7, 1present 19 Santophen ~l mignt b9 sufficiamt t9 discouraga th9? ?99u819m9r from.using (Exhibit passed :9 the jury Q1. this exhibit 19 9 mama that w9n:.i' [?ywho has 9139 cascified here. and you raceivad a capy 9f 18 That 9 what 1t status. yas sir.?95il And it addresses th? point that we had discussed *191n the chlorophenols 19 of very high importance :9 th9 con-'3? - 1-An it points 99: that any dioxins prasent in ?Santophen 1 may 99 suffic1ent :9 discouxaga a customer, 9Ven 1:9 I 399 that, yes, sir.9: A: Th9: was part my belief yes. Sir. Some cusaemers._yes, 1t could 99 . yes. sir. And what thay would 69. 6v99 though you might think How, you understood that 99 b9 tha ease, d1d y9u n9tg Q59 W911 did you 9: 91d y9u th believe that any dioxinaf1 Mr. Edwards has testified hare aarliar. :9 Dr. Wilsan{L_- IL (.9 rum!? Mummy-3713 '114 'f_is 16:? 1"1751 '18- a19_ $0 1 2i 22 23 724W.fthat decision. 18 that corract, Hr McPhillips? own judgment and could decide, aven thongh it may net be tzuo. :lthey cOuI decida that they don' want that product because 1: "fhas ?ioxinsfin it; isn'It correct. sir?r customer under such circumstances than? Lita or his :th: not to use something that m1ght hava. even . hazard assuciatad with it. 15 that correct. sir? ?areT?ntit11a to Iknbw whether or not thare are diax1ns-preshnti1 I-so?I .that they can axezcise thair judgmant as to whether Or not ?it' somathing tha want to usa and be axposad to? than represents; mam: hazard. they: mum use ahia?ir A 'Oh, don't know 1f?I could agree to that; QL WelL why vauld the presence of ?ioxin discouraga a A . It couldrba just clearly an emotidnal issue. I. QIV Wa 11.?aga1n it emotions cannactad with health and a Safety of their amyloyees and their customers, isn't that entree A Y?s; sirthan or the cusaomar axarcising . though 1; would be extremely remote. that might have a health A The_way you state that,-yes. sir. Q- 15nd,&o you beliava; Mr. McPhillips._tha: your customar% No: raaily. sir, 501 1 You baliava that they don? hava the right to maka 1 -977 PENGAID CO.-. BAYONNE. NJ. '07002 FORM C17) I18 15 A20 5?22- 23I ydu let me expand you?belicve than thay have :53 r135: to ask: the judgmant ?10: themselves as to whether or not they want to ba sxposad to" A'dioxin? not. asking you whether or not you bel1evc that they have ,tha right to mako the dac181on, yaa. I 'mrw1111ng to be exposedI to dioxin or no, m.not Willi n3 to be eXposcd to dioxin? Do Iselvas? A1sn' that what yau? re say1ng. Hr. MthiIlips? _IIhava that r1351. 15 that a beI1af that 19 :adharod to o: accepta? A t2f1. by other: at Mbnsaato that youA haw: knawlodga 05? .293 AA I don' know 11 I woul?.put 1: that way. air. but if Wall that' way putt1ng MI. MBPhillips. A In my ?pihion, m. 31:. I don'tfmink Iic'stocauy' I, necassary. A A AWe11.1nIyour'opinion whether 1:15 n?cassary btAg you balieve they have the right to Amaka that ?ecision thcm- . A ER. MUSGRAVE: Object; c513"quest1onAhda beep a?k?d #ndranswer?dTHE OverruIed. A I think I anawared it. y?s. 51:. IQ And you? re say1ng 18 that they don' have 1513 r1351. Yeah, I guas 9. It's not a quast1on of rIght. Is that A4- is your anief that cha- customers don I 1? AA 5 A I004 tuum H. uny' n.1, p-Luuo ?66113666 136166f was that y66 made the judgment that the d16xin present doesn 21 don't know, sir. :1_*Are y66 speaking 6666 3666 for yourself? speaking for myself s1r.I Q7 right.. Now. and 16 your judgment the people 17" .56?wh6ther 6: 66: there 6r6 d1ox1ns 16 666 producb? IIH 161.16 They have :66 6136: 66 know 1f 1: .696 I bellevn theyifI, '16hava a 666? ?166 r1366 to know the product and 1f the leval '66I6f dioxin repr636nts a hazard t6 thaw, 66 6661: employees or 6661: customers. W611 d6 they hav6 the right 996. "f jg*_6analyses we ?61: that it was no: a hazard or eminent hazard .--.e11that 666 product 166615 +4 we had 39 ye6rs or 20 yaars 6f 6f96ngIisafaty da6a 666 3Q years of 5616 of the product. the customtr? I 2636 as sales 6f :66 product thay had EPA registrations of their . 1.615f66formulations which req6irad safety da6a and human safety 66:6,. 13101666yI66r6 fully 66666 bf 666 saf?ty Of 166 product and in 6' thair belief obviously thay E616 It?wasI safg 6666666 th?y con?1Q6 ;Iit1nuad 66 66 6 16. 1'6 assuming thay' 66 continuing to 686'65 {orthobanzochlarophanol, 51r.- Mr. VcPhillips 6666 you 61 6 though what you related ?11 -j6A I I d6?161taly 63:66 with it._ 06: position and all 66: -. .99} - 611666: buy the product from yOu do not haVe the right 66 know ".1f6616131866 th6y had to $66 the approval 6f the EPA before t?ay 8666 16;; 'rodiv?y u. - - ngudo .onvoim'e. ?q'low .- 1i 1.3; 7111111? *ch?ff Qii?fi 24 a haalth hazard I I did 30"make that. my Paople di?. wall do you believe that your customar has tha righc?17fJIQ ?3,330 datermina for himself whether or not whatever dioxin might there represents a haalth hazard or 13 that something that makas for h1m7 - 1 AfeI i VLA Well the customar has tha right to tas: tha producc?171: .?;jsupp11ed aIl- the safety data Ibar they historically requastad Tijd??30f the product. we d1d not hide a thing. s1r.? Ythemselvas? A INO. sir. -5751r? 31:.1 didn say 'hat. 7have the rinht to decida whafhev or no_ti yea want :0 axposa {yourself to the rIsks.of whatavaz chamicals-might7ba?1n a :Producc aha? you re buyin 7 I 21A. De I hava the r1ght7 '11Q?i?Are you saying than that they have 5? if*th?y7want .7 iva I hava the right to feel 1f 1t 8 a safa chemical yas;q} :1ifu11y and ask the fully questions in terms of safety data.? We 31'? 25to know 1f dioxin is present, that thay should dc 'tha; tasting W911 lat ask it 38313 Ryan nc believa7f? Avail tak? yourself f?r 133tanc?u don I you beliava that N.J. 07002 FORM IL 243.19 20-" 2L 22 23 24 what' a in the product that you' to buying, than you must also ixboliovo that the customor has the r13ht to know whot' 1n the 3 You wuuldn?t take a r1ght to yourself and den; 1: to.thewous-? tamer; would you; 9112 'That's what 11m asking. How -4 - HA I What the.1mpur1ty'1s -- do they have tho t1ght T'gn impur1ty, and I'm ttying I don't nocossarily ogtto that they have tho r1ght I don't know thatfa strong word, 31:. Q. Mt. -MoPh1111pa. are you saying that you don't havo the r1ght to know what? a in a produot that you' to buy1ng2 A Tho right? - Yes, the t1ght. A A Oh. I don? know 11 I nood a right. goose -Excuao no. Do you btl1ovo that you have the tight to. what a in tho product that you? to buying? A The way you? to phras1ng that quostion, you. Now; if you 5o11ovo that you haVn tho right to know produot that your oustomots are buyiog. ian' that corroot, 31:1 A _could you answet that question. M1. McPh1II1ps. - I disagroe with you. 31: Are you say1ng that ?v I, With the wgy you' to osk1ng no that quost1on._ 1?01. 7 PENGAD CO.. ll ..12 l3 l4: ',15 ._16 IE 17? 118 '119 g: 20 '122 :3 9* you believe that yen hava the right to know. but . Lye: your customars do not have a tight to know. 13 that what P'yyou' re say1ng?~ A 1'm saying if I Want to haw: Could you that -- A, the ugh: to know, 1 11 ask for the r1311: :0 . i'knOW1 'If I don' havn tho right -- just because I have the 1" . moan I asked for air. 192? . I?m ac: ask1ng you that. Mr; McPhillips. ?My Qu18:1031_ I'1s you beliavu that you hays the r1gh: to know what' a 1n the 'chem1cals that you' re buy1ng and being exposed to. don' a you. :.s1r? . A If I ask for yea.'31r.? 3h, yuu havu the tight only 12 ya? ?sk?for 13?] A. If?! 33k for c.33uming a Eicusn 1: that the only n1mo that you cons1dar I that one has a right 13 he asks Or when 1: represents an eminent hazard to health. safety to the employees or my employees or to the consumers, . what hava ybu.? Then if you don?t know that chera'a a poss1b111ty of -?iox1n in.atproduet. yau would nova: ask, would you, 31:: 1f: -you.don1t'k30w that's 1: there, and'if you never asks than you y"haya do right by you: dafinition cf aha right to knew, 13 that 1 LU.. Uh . 1117.1- ID12.1 I 115 1.16~1 "18 . ?l;zi?;I VijzA; l-Ccorract, 31:? D16 I understand that corractly? . I don' know if I understood the quastion r1ght.- WDII Ia: mo start over aga1n. ~Do you be11avb that V.you hava a right to know what' a 1n tho chemicals that yDu? re buying and that you' re Ds1ng? A If I ask for the right. yes. 31:. 1 i A 5 I ?Q?l All right. Then 3 a cond1t1onal right? Yen have '11 the r1ghc to only 1f yoD ask quast1on. 13 that correct; 1 Ar 11 that's the way yoD want ta state yes, sirwant to state Is 1: s1r, that ycu belIave the right exists oniy 1f you ask the 1 al?a.? another question, 31:; As1dc from whach?r, ;hav? the tight :9 know Dbat?s?1n ch: ?hem1cala that 7buy1ng from a given soDrce? 51" Yes. if I ask for yes, 81:. Than 1t' a 2:111 a aonditional r1ght. Yeah. IQ: I??you Don? ask for it. than You don? hava the risk: to kn?w, if I understand you corractly? . A1 iTh? tight 131113 if 1: represantsfan 15D1nant?baz?rd >17 or no: It?s hazard at no: hazard. do you baliavD that PENGAD CO.. BAYONNEI NJ. 07002 FORM IL 1465.2' . 25 24' buying. the food I eat 1f 1: r6pre?6nt6 an em1nan: hazard.or potential health :6 me, to my emp16y666,to th6 con6um6r6 'excusa ma 4? I have r1gh: to that 6166, 61:. but to Thava you. I don' know 1f I ?you know, hav: to 99.1 666' 'h6V6 a right, even though you m6y not 6V6: 666 that right and whathar or mat you believe that ybu have the r1gh: to know? the right to 6666 an? that *6611'66_kn6ws A haia the r1ght to know 11 the ch6m1661a thathva_H {616 th6r6 and ask for avery 116616 1mpur1ty 1n 6- think I want to b6 that hyper-1n 6616 66c16ty. I I 'm,nct ask1ng yau whethar or not you want to b6 that hyper. I'm s1mp1y ask1ng you.whecher or.not'y6u bel1avt you may believ6 that 1t' 6 foalish to use that right. ju6t askinf I have the right to know -f'v ER. ch16 h6s asked and answ6r6d saveral times.? . A11 r13ht.Then you do b6116v6 5- 7 I don' know how many times v; got to 66666: th?t. 6Q A Y6s, but now you? :6 say1ng 1t d1fferently. You have i A I have the t1ght to kn6w If I 66k for yaa, 61:. HQ 36 . Yea 1ntarrupted me.- no you beiieva you hava the rIgh: to know if :h6 -. ._101.1 "i2 .1 {1:4 I: ,1i AISIA 22' ?1 ';2311 :7 that 1f you know that d1oxin was in 12 that you would than '1 has tho right to know undo: those circumstances? rw-v? 1a vorianco between what you say and what Dr. W1Ison Boys and 1"And is you: holief that a customor, who: they don' know won'_t . than? w1tnoss has soid. dooida not to buy that product. do you boliovo that the customor171oig; No, 51:. I don' t. right. :'Causo that tho judgment wo made; 1 What yOu"to saying than.1a that_ 1- 1:'3 not a quostion of r1ght. A?v_ You're asking mo_my op1n1on-and I gaveyou my anowor' ',to my op1n1on. I'm no: you knoo. I roproaout 11 work-1 for Honsanto. but you might ask that quost1on of somobody 9: Oh. I hava asked it of ochors. Mr. McPhillipa, as Uagking 1: of you, and I 'm.just trying to find one if thorn 1s A Dr. Rouaoh or Dr._Pagot or if you' to all saying the 3am? MUSGRAVE: Objoot to that, that's not what:;ho fQ' 1 asking. in that corroct. sir? THE GOURI: Objoction.1soovotruled;u you and you a: Mbnaanto have the right to doo1do1 (mm 3.112. A PENGAQF co.. .onm 3.1 ,x lo 1? ii ?15, '6 i7 '187' ?20 2 . 21.22: than 11955 a person that I'm just against 23 24f fretraads that. that 11? a good safe car?ass and that the tr1ad':? A A I d1dn?t say that. air. Q31 All'right. Then they have to know anough about 1h: 1' not there are 6101138 11 it, is that correct. air, before 1h1yilr 113-- bafora they hav1 the r1ght to know? ., A 1 no. s1r. If we felt thgy represented 11 an aminant A 1111 tho customer that. But. Mr. McPh1111ps; thatfs ho?jWhh? I'm a?king you. 11You understand in this mama of-March .31o?e customers would not b?y your santophen oven thbugh in your? judgment 1: d?asn' present any heal th ha3ard.That?srrecogn1zad by Mbnsanto. 1sn": 1t. 81:? A That was a potential thr?at in my opinion. I thihk, Don Edwards agreed to that in that 1110. yas. sir. 7A11;r13ht.v What saying th?n, that th1s you 1 -acknowledga that game customnra would buy 11?evbn 1f 1tis go: ITdioxin'in it. and you know that; TQ 'oAnd.so y?ur solution or.1s'1t? ft YOU consider an-_ .appropr1ate solution 1f you know that I?m not going n?buy -retraaded 11:11 but you know as a manufacturer, 1 p1rsOn that 7giproduct than 1o be able to design a qu1ation to ask whether ,hazard to tha customer. I assure you. 31:. we would 1mm?d1atoly5o' 1 I6 ?6 a rump -co..v ?young." 6.4. 6?70?? ?6f6dossn show tha* 16' a retreaded 1f I coma in there and buy -6?61t 6 retread do 366 consider tha* ycu under those circumstanc \673hav6 the right to keep from ma the information than 1: a 6 232. 7'1: . v? ??6j676*61 ask 3666 6666:1068. x?6 6?66 12f131n thwre 14 1 ask 3666 6663:1663. 6" but you. the 86116: 6f y66 R666 1: s. a ratread and '666i?666666, you know that 666' ycu. a1r.? ?666662666618q31r93 it.~1 66fp60ple won ?t put 66 their car a retreadad tira? Evan though they r.6' a third 6? :66 prica 6f new t1res and 66y 66 just as "igf?ggfigpoa you know that. don 6 you. 81!? "2 6666 That particular case you just talked :know. .1 s??s?if I 6616 in 66 1t leaks like a new :1r6. 18' painca? lika 6 66666166?' 3561;61fyou 66 know that some paople 666 dr1v6 6 retread tire or use 56666 61666 But assume you didn' ask the questions. -Y661r65g616dil6fg6 6666 I would ask 6-5 'y6616 66k ma Aha: I 66616 dd 666 I1656f36?6 put on right and you ve got it painted reaI 5606 so that 1:66?3366 61:6 and yau know that 1 66 6 ?t buy tire 1f you tell me ?6663365a 661fj?6f666f116 661 think in those particular 66566 there 3 6 law that 6646? Excuse 66. 6Do you 66: know 1.0.. ua io' nI;" 12 .13 14 151 1161; 18: 19;- . zo- 1131 23.2. ?That a a possibility. 31:. I Roll. A: the seller of.:hooe zigos, do you think than. i-tho oustowor has the r1ghc_to know thac.yoo're'oelling him a 7 tire, a rotteadod ciro? -IA Tho customer has tho t1ght? I think thoro' 5 Iowa Vthat probably toquirc him.to do that. As1doI from tho laws. Mr. MoPhillipo. I ask1n3 you 'asido from the laws, do you think-tho customs: has tho right to know you havortho ob11ganion to toll that that's a retroadod :1ro as1do from the 13w? If you' to taiking about the tire, I guess 1: would be;. a tiio. You tell no a cardisagree w1th. about a car, half tho timo we all buy used oars and. ,?ohoy' rs lemons. Hr. McPh1111ps. could you con?1no your anowors- to the . quoot1ona. 1 A .I The quoat1on rogarding your t1ro, I guess you havo the] _right to know about a roorooded t1ro.. Thero' no ouootion in your m1nd oboe ho would havo tho r1ght to know that than a no; a new t1re. that that' a _ro?roodod-t1ro? 11311.1 think if 112's :1 th1td the price -- - Excuso me. there is no quostion.1n your miod about that, is thero, Hr. HoPh11 I1ps1 108 ?Un?t diam. 10 n' 112 131 114Overruled. 23? Yes. thero is. Q. There is a quest1on 1n your mind? - A I wouId th1nk if 1t' 8 one th1rd the prioa of a rogula Ciro. I th1nk you would havu to start asking coma quest1ons. -A(and I :h1uk that was the example you gave no. that 1: was one third the price. Q1 No, I didn' say that ?9 AI of a notmal n1ro. 1. 'I'didn't say; that you Wort selling Vcha,t1ro a: that time for.ono third tho pr1co. HI aidn't sugge51- that a: all. -You?ro aell1ng 1: for tho prion that youiwooldv .35: to: any.t1ro. I didn't suggest that. Okay. Ibo oustomnr :h1nks ha' 3 go:t1ug a t1re than isn' ratrcaded and you know that he 19 getting a 21:6 A If ho gavo-ma and 3am: warrane1e3_of,av I. . . QII .Exouso ma. Do you hova-tho right 10 kno? that 1:93 a rotraadod tiro7 MR. MUSGRAVE: It?s boeo askod ao?_ano?oraa, your THE 60URI: I don?t thiok so from-thit lasc~answorg I Would yon ask the question aga1n7 Simply does tho customer nova the r1gh: to know that I . 10 11 13 i4 -lis" 1'5 117 '18 1.19 1?-2o7 23 124 - he?s?buy1ng a retreadad tire? 1A The way ycu'ta ask1ng ma tha question. yes. 31:. . Is there any c1tcumstancas undar which he would not 'have the t1ght to know that ha' a buy1ng a retraadad t1te? A: I dan' know 1f 1t' 3 a quast1on of right, 31:. . No; mw'quastidn 1t_of t1ght. 31:} Is thtre any Aquest1on 1n your mind but undar all circumsta?Cds that you can? Ithink of a customs: coming 1nto a tire shop has got the r1ght Ito know wha that or not ha' a buying a tetraaded tire? 1? MR. MUSGRAVE: Object to this line of qusstioning. gyoux Honor; It's tailing for speculation and ganjacture as taf? any set of circumstances, some 1mag1uary person m1ght not have." I__tha right to know and th1s?eou1d.go on ?orevnr..ad 1nf1n1tum as to pottntial circumstances.? Thit is pure spatulition and Iconjacture. beyond tha competency of any witnass to tasti?y to . TEE COURT: Objection 13 overruled. It' a Ptopet analogy and a view a: area that this is a" - Diaper quast1on; II guess -- you're asking I don't? g1kno? 1E.I_hava to hav? the right ?vtty time that 1t'a a'tetroadqd' tits, sir A11 r1ght. What -- . Becausa I th1nk there' a some casas probably sommwherc.ul ;s?meh?w,I can-think about it long enough I can-up 31th a cast . PENGID CO.. BAYONNE. NJ. 07001 OUHM ll. ll? .g 10 ll _l2v .23 .24 -knaw that ha' a buying 6 61:6. p16ase 6611 ma of the . :that's the cast-as far 63 Ifm concerned. I maun. 1f he's giving . the right and :hare' a a case I say I 606' 666d th? r1ght. wh6r6 you dan't 666 6 the r1ght. I Th1nk 6b6ut it please. and if you can think of 6 616316 episode where tho customs: does not have the right to 61rcumacances. . AC: can't think 6f ono. Q. Well. think as much as you can. 6, A If the product W6: ch: 3666 warr6nty or warrant1os that satisfy m6 and tho price 18 r1ght and I and the warranty satiaf1es my 6666: of what I want to do. than 6 my raspon61- b111ty. 1n' 6 my mon6y. Hafa just s6111ng 1: to ma. I mean. mafthg warranty to :ati?fy.m6 6nd gha 9:166 16 correct. I'll buy :1ra. I 6663; I 666?t 66:6 1f lic_? retrea?ad or 666.:? VQ We. I didn' 6 ask you that. 31:. I just 66k6d7you' --: -AL. W611. y6u gavn at a 6666 where I don? th1 uk I need I asked you wh?th6r that. a any 61:666366666 under '_w616h you b6116va the cus_zom6r V6616 no: havn the right to knowf: that ha' a buy1ng a retread6d :1ra? A And I gavu_y6u tha=.caso, 61:. Q6 .And what 18 that 61rcumstanc6? A I jun: 36v: 1: to you. s1r. . What 13 I. PENGAD {610-91 213? "116 ?"?tha store. You' ta the tire dealer. ?'10 -NFI4I 7?=fs .I18 {11 71.22. 1 '24, I If I walked into a No. no. you' re add1 ng 1 I walked 1n. but I':alk1ngzI I. I'm a cuScOmar.. You're ask1?g mt ifII gcust?m?r I Hr. McPh1111ps, could you just 11m1t3y?ux anbworg pg; . 11, hat ask1ng you. I try1ng to. 91:, rcaIIy. IQ Is theta any c1rcumstancos under wh1ch custamer :1re? A And I?m tailing ybu Initha cage ya?'xa. asking ma my op1n10n No, 1? ask1ng you your opinion whether theta a any AI I I just descr1bad a case where I th1nk ha has a legiti ?mate right. - I g_ I I undarstand he has a legitimaac r1gh?.? Ifm""??v ;??12cumscanc? under whichI a enacomor, a third person coming intOI?I wwould not have the right cc know that ha a buying a ratraaded asking you.whara 1n yaur?m1nd he docs not_ hawa the r1ght to -A I can 'e think of any right newD Mr. Carr. I sorry051$273 NOW: I Mr.- n?hilliPSD t1). custamrs, yeur custamgs-I? I A They re ansanto' 5 customers. '10'1. ?ll 1.2 131 314?1_pe280n who wa1kn in fully undarstanda warranties and evary-I ?15 16 11711' '18 f1 _19' 201 V211 ?22 23111 24? VQI wou1d they have'cha fight'zo know that your product he; sbmething 1n21t aha: they might cohsidor to be unsafe even . .ghough yOu know. like the retraaded tires. a patfactly 1 lgobd tir?f ?Do yaujthink that -- A . No, sir." They donft-hIVa the-sum; right that the customer of 1' a.rotrea?od tire hug? I A I didn't agrae with you about the rattaadad':1ra _'cuatomar.r? I thought-you did, up. I th??gha aura that you said that ybu ?ouldn?c think-bf a single circumstance -- I gavu you a cast. sir. I gave you a ?end what. a bching else. If they re sat1s?aeuory. why-docs he have to know they re racraaded? . No you? re asking ma a quaation, but I m.asking you the question, Mt McPh1111ps.? A. 1' aell1ng you there a a ?33: 132 Mr. McPhillips, you? re no: answer1ng the [quastipna. You'r? not a-V you ta not asking tha questions.. IIEE Honest to God, THE canny: Mt. ngphillips, dank: e111 whiza I?m sort-?f rough for yb? to heaxg'and I wah: 113 PENGAD (20.. BAVONNE. NJ. 07002 FORM 22? 23_? 24- - the questions. and number two. whoa you listoo to oho _answot that quostion and that question only, and I th1ok 1t might improvo things, becauso so for you area ?u doing o1?hor tire, that ho?s buying a rotroadod tire? Is-zhaovwhot'youero - him a tire that is a rotroad ovon though he ch1nks he?o gottiog' you to hear what I'm.say1ng. Yoo' to not asking tho ouoot1ons. you? to answerIng the quest ions. Two chIngs wiII hoIp. Mombor one, If you quit 1otorrupt1og the attorney when ho' 3 asking 'yous? one. and ordering you to do so now. You may proceed. or. Corr. 1 Mt. McPh1111ps, 15 what you' to oaying that you boliovo If you. the doalor. 1f you gIVo that customs: a now c1ro warranty. that ho-doesn' thou need to know-that Mo?s oat boong 3 now saying. s1r? I A - That's a good exemplo; sir. I So when-you go in to buy a new :1ro, you cousidor 1t -- or when anybody goes 1n to a :1ro store to buy a new tire, 1 1t 8 porfectly proper in your judgmon: for that doant to sell a new tire? 81d I Interproc your statomoo: oorroctIyI-Tw A That?s potentialIy the statement, you, air. All r1ght. And now do you know whatnot or not that bol1ef of yours 13 shared by other: that have respon91b111cy or had zoopons1b111ty 1n the customer rolationoh 1p of Mboaanto 1nsofor as tho chlorinated phenols wore oonoorned?. I 114; CO.. BAYONNE. NJ. 07002 FORM IL 243 _10 an <112 ._13 -I4 15 '16 17' -1s .20 '21 _22' 23 724- ?at the tima came so ch?.sama conclusign that we_went with, sir.g7_ ?stated about the customer not having the r1gh: t? know that he?sTL ;Q'buy1ng a ratraa? whom you g1vu h1? a is shared by other: to your knowladga 1n tha at=Mbnsanca ?that ?aal with selling chlorinatad phanols to custamars? know is just your belief? p8ant0phan, 1c 15 your bal1ef that even though the custamar won?t ibuy your Santoph?n if he knows thatc'a_any aioxin 13 1:9 it 135 ?ygur-balief chat-yo? sell him tha; Santophau without t?111ngv As 1: relates to the chloroPhenols, I think all ?f a; .7 ;Wa11g Mt. McPhillips. that isn't that I asked you. -I asked you whether ar-?oc A 81:. I don'ajknaw - youihava to Ac Q-Q Qould you please wait until I tha questian. 31r.f I asking you whether or no: the bnlief the: you hava just asking you whether or not that balief that you hava just scatad A No, 31:9 I don9:.know. All rightg 'Wha? you have scatad then_a? far as yet A In regards t6 the tire. yes. 61:;1 Will and 15 it also your belinf than w1th reg:ard to him that dioxin is in it? A 31?; theta is ugly diox1n_ 1 Excuse me. c0014 You answer that duast1on; A [The way you phrasad that quascion: 9? :th@ way you, .- :6120?1 56fph2886d 666 qQ6861661, . guess I havn to 66666: 66. they 666' 6 6fih6v6 the r1ght.I ~66616 with pr6du?t6 6666: than orthochlerophenol-crude as 66163 111:616va6: 666 6136 661666 66 it 16 6616: of sp111 and as to the issues coatatnt?.7' I1 All 61366. And if you 6616 6ham 6666 66616 immbdiately quit using the pr6duct. and th6ta?6r6. '3 5- you 616 not 6611 than. 166' 6 6666 corraet. 61:? I ng . N6. 11:. 67" W611. 166? 6 666.- I 3] 6 A a 1666' not 666 reason why we d1d6't 6611 6666. no. 66- 661?10 166?: 666 6666. 61:; 16616 atplbe-that.I '6 11 6 MR. CARR: . Vania you 31176 666 19166636 Pla1n?1?fo? >712? ?3361616 1217 I I . _73 - . (At this :16? P1a1ntiffs? Exh1bits 124471. And 1,14 Iiw6xa mark6d 56: 16666151666166.) '15. ?6w, Hr. McPh1111ps. you havu 16 front.6? y6u ,?15 1 MR. CARR: 06, onr Honor . A, . I _117.6'2 W611. 66 you r666g61z6 1247A. B. and 661.616wupa 6 118:. 666 mama 12677 2191 11. A 266, 61:. . MR. cAnng- 6121: 12171; 3.161 6,-youg RUSRRAVE: 063666 66 16'66 the extent that 16 it?? 'noI 1117Ij7 18 1:1 I. [19 23:1 1' 1'324f~ -WW1onsa ?.b?brgquch1oW; understand WhaW. buW what page I133 A'MWmowwritten*by yOu, alghough on Whe copy What I have I {And you db racoghize :53: at you: memg? "22 1' Mama written by MW. W11son 1n wh1ch he pointed out on Apr11 Who; IjWo you Wacall WhaW. 81:2 The mama has been when wnightd*agginst??thgr cona1dar-I ?~_raz Conny: cure; MR. MUSGRAVE: Could yen Wall ma Whe_ -- WWI WhWoo pages MUSGRAVE: What PAges A. B. and 13?. Yeah, - MW, In chronoiogical ordWr. 2* MR.-MUSGRAVE: Chronological ordar. A. B. and C2 MR. GARE: Yes. your a1gnaWura has not been reproduced? sir. Is A I 31W.v I Wight; My cop? machina apparWnW1y~cut I A Q1 Maw. We put 1W in proper parapecWiva, the :3 was a 10th ?79 What that! ware dioxins fauna 1n your chlorophenols.-P Now, Mr. McPh1111ps. do you raccgniz thaW, of coursa. PENGAD 60.. Nd. 711 1,-.2o {21" 22 I 61711011?. u: just asking A. 1 recall the 31:: of Rh: Apr11 10th msct1ng. Apr11 -'10th memo, yes. 81:. ~And you maka A 71: talks about inconclusivn f1nd1ngs. 'I?m natty, 31:7 The tantativa f1ud1ngs 1n tha ?hacf? one of purpasos. 81:, 11 I can explain Excuse me, Mr. M32h1111pa. You' ta volunta?r1?g statp? manta that are beyand my queat1dns.- I'm sura'e?uASel has told I _you to 1?m1t your answer to whacrl?m'askin? do wt doh'c haVo to go into tha A Okay; My -quast1on.s1mp1y was that W1lson 2931 a mono 1n *,prr11 of ?79 13 wh1 ch he stated that there had been d1oxins found 1n your chlorophsnols. 1: that corrocc. s1r7 A . Yes. 31:. . 'And there were other sampieq?s?nt to bay?oa for Aanalyais. That?s po1ntad 05: hare. A . ?Yes, 31:1 1Q, And, 'of course. an hive thosa othhr toaults Of these . Aother samplas 1n evidanca, but one th1ng that you'mcntionad . ~ih?re is tha: these ana1yses are 1n confliec w1th 33:11:: d1oxin_ ?24"1:tas:s made 135013: as Santophanel-is cancatned. earxace. 31:7 "us idb. 119Ropoat tho quoat1on again,- airy ?12. I You point out the bottom of ?111; first 2 II I3 . A You.- oir. You' to talking about the bottom. sorrY-I'_ - I I I4 I was still Iooking under tho of tho imam, I I g. sorry?. . 6 2 You point out at tho bottom oI tho page that tho they: 137 a rosults showed that there were no 2, 3. 7 8 TODD honors in tho I .- . 8' .Svantophon although thorn wore 25 parts per 911111011 of the mono. I19 I I <11, and? IiI'Iotiohlorodibonaoo"; don't you-31:? I . - That? a what: It states. yon. sir. I Now,- at film: point in time. Mr. McPhin1pa woro you I 1:2, IIP?t?sona11y aware of, ?113 fact-that the ?diff [13 or: at least- ono of the ioomors of'thotj1'o?oon31dorod tab: 142" *?vory toxic? I II 15- - A 813:. I don" rooall. 16 I All right. Tha'socond Fag? 90111315; ?it" doesn't _Pu?nM 31:, that in tho 2.4 DCP.you foond 200 parts por.b1111on of the I13 TGDD isomer. of something that could be. tho ITCDD 150er 19 A You, sir, that?s what itjototas. - 22-21220 . . And you. recognize that the 160 parts pot ?billion for . PENOAD .HAYOINNE. N.J. 07.001. -.2r Itho 2 4 5 18 by tho findings on the 2, 4 dichlorophonol,?h 22.2 Ido you not, air? I 23, A .2I'I4ff And-you. also that they?re goingfto alminatog'I. ?ta 1. is; co", umw 2mm It to Dr. W11aon' mama of April 1 Och.1979.:ha: 13. that. that; . 4/1211 2 - '1 I question 13 these tab concerns areas bacansc cf the ?1nd1Dgs? _j7.4. Danny buy aomaghing 11k: 24 0: a: that 21D: thay aura buying 24 ?9i_-cho caustic no 833 1? that helps? Yeah, below. yes. 31:. If QI Dow, theta I--, as tar as you ware canccrund. 'ff-thara ware two vary 1mportan: markce1ng concerns that chest findings brought to the sur?aco. 1sD': that correct. Mr. ?-?MuPh1111paw ?CAQ'IfFind1ngs. 31:7 Th?rh warn t?o markctin?h?oDcerns, yas; . Tha: cam: to light because of the f1nd1ngs sat out -wera diox1ns 1n.tha chlorophanols7 1-13 '7 The two markating concarns. 31:. nus qusgtign Iasked by my managamant. 1? Mr. MhPh1111ps, you? re not listening :0 my qugationu ;of April the 10:h, ?79. 13D that correct/.1 31:7 14" I: 1: prompcad by ab: memo. yes,.51r, 1n 1979a 11911"1 95 DOW. ODD of these concerns dealt w1th Santophan and 29? 4tha ozhsr deal: with 2. 4 d1ehlotophenol. 1aD' a that entrace. ,22:;Ll I :5 Yes,*s1r; I va, I Insofar as San:0phen 1s concerned LaDc and F1nk, ?New con-r unounx.? 67002 tovum, firf I41541 .. I.Isir?4- ,4 49444444 of you: 344444444 output $01? Or-1?38. 4II I don' 4 think 1: was that h1gh. 412.7 I I have a 4444 th4c sayb 1: 44:. and w4'11 34; _tof that :{1n 4 44444:. A 4444'; ?144.? I 43:44'4144 4 4444. 4 Sir14?; been 414. savan y?grs. 1Q All right? It that important whatnot 1: 13 f? 'chat much or not. A ?brld wide, y4u? r4 pr444bly r1ght. . 4: A11 r1ght. And Lane and 3144 18 you Alragdy 74414444 444 b4?4r4 that they :4 444444444 44444 th4 anviranman: ,44 4 144444 44 the h44411cs, 144' 444: right? I Environment 14444 4f the ph4n411ca. y44. 31:. .I Plural; ?-That?sI?orract; 41:; A that if 444:4 are any 4444444414 4144144 14 Santophan-l. 4444 w4 4441f1ad L444 444 Fink they 44414 41344441444 :44 484 4f 4 Sanzaphon 41444: 1444414441y 14 Ly4oI 94443444 Cleaner. QI 444 you 44y h4:4 th4e everybody 1n 444.444t143 agracd?n" Th4: was our 44114: 44444 44 the circumstancas a: 4h44 PENGAD COL. navormc. rm. .0700.15. 11 7n; 17 19] .y "26-1 1:1. 2297}j7 1d4??1. A 1t1me._l yes. sir. And you.knaw that the peeple at Lane and Fink wou1d do that upon the ralationsh1p that you had w1th the 9:7markot1n3 or buying people a: Lane and F1nk.1sn' that correct 31:? ?1 1: 1: Was on the basis of the overall ie1ationsh1p and 'f probiama wa had a: the accOunc 1n terms of the performance of formulation that wa had w1th Lane and Fink. yes. 31:. so 1: was no: just the buying dapartmant. but research and other' d1sc1p11ncs. . A I A11 r13ht. Theta #as other bade ?atcr1a1 thattheyix could buy wh1ch did not contain_dioxin? W111. 31: -- Q- QIan?t ghat sir? 1 Santophen I apa'z.knaw'that.r Idb??t V.Q 81:? A. I den 3 know 1f aha other prcducts hava dioxin in them or not. 51:. 7 we11.you know thay ware can31 der1n3 u31n3 queue 1 They were us1ng quats. Hatter c1 fact. they wara using quata? Isn't that cartact?_ i . j7122 mun. It; a BAYONNE.16 1,17? 18> .VIIA I 201:; ii Izi.' 23} j24~M ;-aver had.anyth1ng close to dioxin 1n 1sn? that corract. 1013' fAAc. I can ?t recall what it does nan have a ohlorophcnoL sir.? To answer your question 1: does no: hava a chlorophenoI. about-IS bf you- 5- 15m sorry. your mAating was six *1 31$. .And that' not a ohlor1nated phan oI? 13 Sir? - I A A: . Mo, s1r.f Q11 And you have absolutely no knowledgA that Any Qua: 91:? A . I mum not know. 3A.: I Isn' that correct what I aa1d to you, air? A I don' know. sir. I raalIy don knOw what 11A Ho, that isn' my qunstion. My question is you have absoluter no that thA quats contain anything. any dioxiniwhatsoAVA r;?1sn? thAt carrect, 31:? A I A I have no knowledge, yes, sir. I All r1ghc. And so you.po1nt out har?. and matter Of fact; a: that mget1ng from Edwards down through Wilso1 Yes. sir.- QV- And anothar IO. another haIf a dozen or so go: copIes; and Metcaif and McPh1111ps, it was a unanimous agreamAnt a: thaA paint in time that if Lana and Fink IaarnAd than there' a . any datactabla dioxins 1n Santophen. they IA no: going to use 123.. I I of your memo, but all six you. Miller, Wilson. Roman. BAwardr, 5? mar PENGAD co.. BAYONNE. NJ. 01092. FORM u. 243 10 .ngv' 13 ,14- '16' i 17 '1 :119_ _21' 22. '23j iMr. HhPh1111pn. 91:? .811 whether cr.not-th1 diox1ns wers.praducad when.you quit 'jSWI'u11?g?caustic, [to not1fy Lane and F1nk.at this time? IA"10th it's baen a while. but when we analyzed the Santophcn f7 7.20.' .1th1re was some v1ry 1nconsisaencias 1n data 1t? I ITh1tlwa1 but b?lief. sir, yes. sir. 1Q d1dn': notIfy Lane and'F1nk that ihafegwcfe any Secectable dioxins in Santopha?; A 81:. a: that time ~41 3 1 . I Excuse me. my quest1on 13 specific and 1t' 9 311911.- --A We d1d no: not1fy Lane and Fink. Q. New} Ybu also d1scussed than whechqr~or no: you ?houl?' ,xnocify.thg? April tha 18th or waitIuncil'aid- That's what it statas there,131t, yas, 31r.' Q, yen dec1dad you wantad to wait'until m1d~?ay to That-was one of tha reasons, yes, 311._ -W111, was share any.o:her reason that Yes. sir. Mr. Wilson? a memo,1? I racaII, -on April for d1ox1ns, we got, from what I undarstand or what I was ?eld. ?Iwhsrag whats the same sample _?1?1?thbla. and our.:1ssarch peopla 1' Nu). N-b?u '10 '11 12~, 13 14' 151 7.173 '18 ?201 f7217 5 "24? really a entrant marked. and we ?Ve got to refine 11 1 11tt1e 11 ?7to 1nd1catc that there m1ght be. bui yet there' a dat1 that 1bowl;7 7:780 try to aavniop a method to determins 1f theta 1s diox1n1 or 5? 'Ito datarm1n1 how to find d1ox1ns 1n produCts like 'SIantophen.; 7 I WhatE wa ?9 your thought than that theaa resulta- m1ght not be corrac and that perhaps theta are no d1ox1ns 1n II Santophan, is that 1t._81r7 Bit . you go: to ask Jim.W1lson -- Excusa me. 13 that 31:7 A The: was a pot113111 yes . sir. IQ I take it than that you daeided you' we go: to 1w112 th1t there are d10$1na 11.81ntophen.II . isn't that correct, 31r7_1 I Yas, 111; A11 r1ghc._ And you.'re talking hara about d1ox1ns, you? re no: talk1ng 1bou; 2. 3. 7. 8 TCDD. are you. 11:7 You' re -?_calk1ngabout d1ox1ns7 We wars primarily talking a: the t1me, 31:, I th1nk Igof the tetrachlero the 2. 3 7 ,8-tetra. pr1mnr11y the estrang- Excuse me. you' :1 :alk1ng in th1s memp just 1bout re talking about 111 dioxins 1n thig mama, area ?t you. 11r7*? - .g'125 - livery 5? we 're am: too sure this analytical method we have is :71. .,,bit to make aura indeed chore arc dioxins.' There are E11psV7 ithara might not be, and they went on abOut a avaivn month study .. 14' Yifji V12 but the Primar? concern, I th1nk, was the V91 Lana And F1nk under SantophAn-l you are talking About A11 dioxir YiarAn' you, Air 7 think very broad, because there' a a 16: 6f dioxins., I dbn' i'a lot Of types. ithat' to bA Aura you 're thAt' mantioned on inhat theta is up 2, 3. 7 8 TCDD 1n Santophan~1 and that there A.V I mentionod that thare were oehAr d1oxins 1n theta. Q. Mr. Ac?hnupe I 31:. My quast1cn 13 apec1f1c.- Y?u at: in this wimp under ,1 VA 1' :a1k1ng abaut mono,'d1V And 2:1 and tetras. 31r._3 That' whAt it stutas hare. sir. A11 d10xina is a very 'an6w mAny, but fram what I understand share A a Iot of :hcm;V A If -you could dirACE your attantion to :hA '?91 and V31 25 parts par miliion mama. di. .and tr1,but OVA on tha f17 . second paga you' rA taiking about dioxins, aran' 3 you, 91:7 ThAt' 3 what the letter stAtes, sir 7 VV 19,- Anya?! VV VV . ?'?vjA but I think 1' infarring tecr?s. 2% Where d0 you say tarraa in that memo. sir? I say tatras throughout the mama. becausA Abs 2.1 primary cancarn was aha ?estas. J24 Whom do you say that 126? LA 2 .3 .3 ,rsw Q22 as?? co.. Buoyant. NJ. 07002 A .2 91.74 A Ten-232 2 i, 2 No2 excu?e1me2 Where do You say that Lane and Fink 3- m8d? a dgc1s1cn About that you .WAIA not go1ng :0 tall the peopls that make Lyso1. And you' :0 L1 A d1dn' a you, 31:? A In this letter-at the Air, And you muda 1n aftar that. not you afta: thAt, Mr. NAPh1111p3;'as well, 136 gfnot go1ng to tell the paople aha: makA thA hosp1ta1 disinfectanAfg?AjJ AAjthat there 8 any d1ox1ns in thA product: you nude Aha: A After AA found Aha: 1: fALt 1: did not -7'prasant an eminant hazard to the product. yes. sir. Yes, so what you did.you decide1 even after 1t was '1conf1rmed that dioxin was thare that yOu re no: going to tell and Fink 2 that corrAcn. air? A up until that tiAA whan I wAs there. yas. s1r. And as A matter of thA AAly F1nkr -f1earAAd up :9 this dAtA that the Lysol :hAt AhAy were manu- lfAAturiAg from your SantaphAA was thiA JuAt this summer._* this vAry AuAmAr whAA they laarnAd of 1: of l?f1la? in this 1sn' .t thac corrAct. 31 r? I don' know, sir. You denim know that; 31:? '30, I'dbn't know that. 131 Ar1x3< A D16 you Aver gAt any -- hava you aver_had any. ;7 any phonA call PENGAD BAYONNE. NJ: '07002 FORMIIL 248 {1541, 11: :2 I13: 14,14 17 1'8' I 19- A .4 262'1__ 22-14 4 that chair Lysol contains d1ox1n? not in evidence and testimony of counaeII every bans in the "7 UnLted inn letter. ne memo 1n existenca whera Honaanto evar notified ?Lana and Fink that Santophen, which is used to mmnufactura 'Lysal which 13 said thraughbua the On1ca? States and perhaps ~that correct, sir? 'fabORt 39183 to net1fy aha -e yau' re going :9 wait until m1?~ . may . dictated mama of any sort that indicatas that Lane and Pink 0: Sterling Drug was told that it' possibla that their Lyso1 that? thay' ta sending into every home 1n tha Unitgd States nearly. MR. -MUSGRAVE: Object to the Question as posing facts- MR. CARR: That is too strong, your Honor, be?ausa 3 VI don' 2 have that knowledge, and I will rephrase the question. IRE COURT: F1na. Mr. MCPh1111ps, so far as you know there 19 no documa: through a pa rt cf tha world as walI contained dioxin, tan 1 . MUSGRAVR: Objact to counsal' 3 use of the word perhaps. 81? he daesn' a know, then 4- I sonar: Overrulad.. VI1MRIQHUSGRAVE -- theRLhe-can?tjuSRLItg' -51r, I am not aware of any memo. no. And when you were makIng th 1s mama 0f April the I8th 4? wall actually yuu.made a decision theta that you were 1311 ruunl 01,goiI ?21 23 I: I".24y. Lana an? F1nk, but t?e question was are?youy lgoing :?.dp1t now or wait until mid-May? 1sn't that Qerth; 51:73was the pos1t10n of I, 1- the test results in mid-May. WQ The statemanc right: be?otQ tha t, 81:. 1am that r1ght. s1r? - .A The way you that Quast1on. yin. 31:. So a ctually you were going to an1fy Lane and Fink, "but than you changed your mi?d about is thus r1ghz. sir? We, air, that? a not correct. Well, wasn?t the question as you pa: 1: un a ?The Quastion discussed in the meat1ng was whethef?ot not we should V'thify and naw or wait unt11 mid?May" and QthQ. That was the unst1on. That was aha Ray question A That was the quest ion as a marketing persQn 1 aska?Q of my research peogla, who include 1n that meaning or my? I technical paaple, who included Hr W1lson, Dr. Wilson, Dr. Roman, Den Edwards and Joe Maccalf than chase are th1 that felt at the tiQQ I sat there and sa1d gee, dQ WE han to 'thi :bQ custemara. That was the purposs of th1s matting 18. ?9 ask them the questian Qf whather I hava 1Q notify the . I?'wasn' a fbr'mQ to say 1 dan' t?wan: an V, "132 ?_17 31824' hey. gnyi. do 1 have to notify the customers. to wh155.5g ',:3tachn1cal paaple 561d ma. hey. number one. the product. 550 . '-?15d15ga arc very tentat1vu, wt 3 5111 got 56 5580155 555 ana1ys: 5umber'one.? 55555: 550, evun if they war: 15 55550 at 55059 v55155s 155515. 15 615 not pose any ?515555 hazard to 555 :product, and 5555:: 5550.. wa 5555 :5558 of safety 5555 05.550 - safety raf_ 555 5505555 than was 5531555555 w1ch the EPA and at . 5555 -p51555 15 5155 we docidad to 515 back 555.w515 to ace wha5 55 5515555 hazard and 1f 15 did praseng an 5515555 585356, I '535555 you, 51:, I would write a letter a: I would reco??ua? vae-write 5 135555, '55P51111ps. 55 555 a5555daas oi 5535 5555155 . 55555 5535' 5 5 315315 doctor not a single taxicologist.? 5555 .attendad 5585 5555153. 553 there, 81:7 A Then was .a Dr. Wilson. a 95.39555. Dr. Wilaoh 1s a 50556: of $555185ry 4+ .5 Yea said dcctor. 81:. I -- 505 an 5.D.. 55d1551 doctor, 55P5111155. T5555 was not 5 505150103135 55: was there a 5561551 do5505 I 5555 55555556 5555.55051ng. was 55555, 3157 .1 515. I don?t recall what Er. 55555 a background was. gim1355 be 51crnbiolegy. I ?133 4f5951?y 55551_ The 55535105 -- :55 purposg of 5518 5555153 553:5555 _7555 mid-May 550515. 1f :55 than analysis o.f? 555 5165155 presented . PENGAD- CO.. ABAVONNE. 01002 FORM. IL 243 3_104 12 1.14 151 I .16., .g-12011 . '122117 that the test was not working very W111.and at that gain: in . 1" 24:2. you knew 1131 if you did 1111 the m, quit using-11; What you werthoping is tha1 I: yank tesu11111n m1d?May would 111ow you 11'sehd~1hem a 113111; I producing anything w1th datactabla dioxins; that' 8 What you Iwe1e hop1ng. wash '1 1c. 31:? l.you as: aha regains inlaid-xayog.f-- :Iaata ch31 was being p1as?nted was 1?1 vary conclua1va. Some -samp1es analyzed d1oxin. level of dioxin in 11 and some did not. 1f10 1 what I undetstana, 311. and a: 1111 thay were ser1ouslv 1 quastianing the m?1hodolegy in terms of how we analyze? the iId1ox1ns in m1 d-May rasulzs were 111 1991 ?ifrom*what I recall May result thay cama baCR and fauna 011 1111111 What you ware 6136113113 than, 311, was whathar yen V_ma1e latter say1ng. yes. we did 6911c: d1ox1ns 11 our Santophon,r' but our 1111: 11313 now in m1d-May s.how 1hat we' re not currently - 81:, I dan'1 think I 31?11? that. wan, whyelse' would you want to wax: until 1A Because the da1a gQ.? why 1111 bring up the point? Becausa the data that was prasentad if I racall the that they wou1d find a better way to analyZe 11. In the E11 - MhPhillips where an ear1h 614 yen hear that the - CO.. BAYONNE. NJ. 01002 1 FORM 12 HQ 23 I "14 i ,515 2_1?126 '17 18; 29? 20--6 'n ?22, =223, ?224;jE working very #011? Who ?016 yOu that? 22 not Just dioxins but aha 2 3.7 32 Imamo of 011663: of ?79. wh1ch they confirmed the presenea of "?uhayl?I to talking about the 1859 136mar. H1vu yen an: scan ch13 5 name, sit. the analys1s of October 15:h.1979? aay'ectcbur? AG vary cancluaiva._ Thay wire getting int?* I A ?who told?yoh th1t. 31:2 A 332': recall. Probably Jt? Hilton 111 Jed Hht?alf If1[j7 Have you seen the exh1b1ts that they v2 prepared? Exhibits? 7 Yas. aha reports that they prepared showing the leva126-75 A 2.11. air The tetras in this. 31:? 31recall, a: that 22mg could -Q Hy quas n1on. Hr. MtPhillips. hava you net 3211 the the TCDD. and they' to not even talking about 12:11 d1oxins, I can't be 2; MR. HUSGRAVE: Hr. cart. 1:1 w: talking about Getobar HR. GARE: 791d you hear me say Hay or'd1a you hgarfma? THE 00323: Ga ahead. Mr. cart. ?22 ana1yze?. 'Wh coul? not be 130mg: ap?c1fiai 11-1 raea1L -si: 2 __21;351- ?Un6w at back in May, whieh was what aha Question was referring to?? (HIV 2 wow 11min IL n-mmu Lu..,nav01m1. NJ. 10'20. 722 .7_1333 to 333 question that you' re 333133, and I 33313 obj??t to 2 that. <13 this 3333?7 3I3u333? 333 33 handle 3333 particular mama. didn 333, 31:? ;Pcussians with other 3333331. [22 3 7 a 1333 1333 33 31, '24 dam you, 31:? 1 331'34333_ I 3313 0333333. MR. MUSGRAVE: 333 I dan' 3333 3333 relevanca 3333 133 3033:. :033333133 13%ov333313d.' (Pause)I_ Rave 3333 seen 3333 b31333? A 'Sir . I wa?ld novtV Bee mamas like this prcbably. becauaa 1? ~52 333, 333 techn1cally oriented. Wall. 3333 you 3333 3333 it 333333, sir? -A In 333333 weeks they' v3 333333.33 a They 539336 1: :9 you in preparatien your tant1moz AV Thay shownd 33 this stuff yes. 31:. 3 VQL 2 And 31 caurse. yen 3333 discuss3d 333 y33933331313; ER. ijac: :0 3333331 333333133 to die-V THE GOUEI: Objectian 333331333 33. 3333111133 y3u 333 3333 3333 3331313 33333 ~332-63323 63313 y33~g133 333 3133333 Exh1b1t11285.a2v .1 PENAAO (20.. anormi. 07902 Form u. 249? 10? 7 12? .113 '16. 18 . 26 11 1 prahably Aas n't &11 than great.- 1f I 23" - -1g?137 A II thAt. -Q- Axh151: that'y?u hiVi 1&78 Air? 1' 31:. 5Q you A136 thiA Axh1b1: - CARR: 51v: him 1195 a120, would've? 1 .(PausA) Mr. HcPh1111ps. see in MAAO 1195A,wh1?h 1A a?tcrj *1jybur ApriI 18th you thArA Santophanal d10x1nalysis? I Q: And do ybu that thAy rAport here. 31:, thAy :thA 3S and 65. that 1110 parts per b11110A of TCDD 150mg: in 'that Sancophan, 31:? I I thaz 1A 19:, Air. 1Q - DA you 3AA immediatAly Abovu it they? VA 3A: 4800. Vuthat' A A .300 parts per billiAA 01 trichlorodibenze~p-diox1A 1A 711% a - ?it. in that 10:? 1 A ?Does it A I likA two d1ffArAA Awe different I if 're askiAg AA my interpretatian. All right . I think IA right. ?7 3: diffArAAciAls 1A skews that thA1r 11. FORM IL 2.52 PENGAD CO.. BAYONNE. NJ. 07001 10 '13'3' I 14:. '15 16; 17' 13. . '19. 20' - ?217 223-?? 231 onuld not mAkA thA dAcisioA whether VA notify the customer. 24 3 1,91800 1n another analysis of tr1? '2 you in JunA of 19797 1 I-ptobAbly would not. 'wthA mid-MAy rgsulzs, you got them 13 June; you 8AA that. 51:? going to wait far, and it confirmad thAt thArA wArA IO 900 *9 V;20, 000 prtA pd: billicn of dioxins 1n i?yau7 A A -VYQV You arA corract, I shouldn't bA adding those two ,Ithagatharanalysis of thA cri ?nd'_3 I YAA. And thiA 19 that sOmAhow e: othAr cama toT-: I don? know. 81 r. I wbuldA?t AtgtelthAt. Air; It the dAtA oa.1t. deesn' 31:2 '11- It. has the data, but weuid I get; this data?lV 80. A113, I ?Qf7j are thA rasults that you ware wa1t1ng for in A9: Mbn?anco gnu A1r. IQ YAs. . wa, 313A: you 3A: results thAt you sAid ybu 1 your SantaphAA d1d you thAn discuss wh?thAr-or Act-you 'ra-go1ng~5? I Am Am:- it, discussmg?u?, Air, me am: WAII but yau arA part of yam wArA in ~51 -ftA tAll Lan? and Fink chAsA facts thAt new baAn confirmsd co IL 245 IPENGAD C0.. BAYONNE. NJ. 07002 FORM 10. 1-2. 713 i4{ 13? l7- ~,18 '319.;6616 until w6 get th6 mid?86y :66u166,_you go: m1d?M6y . .r?aults. the mid-May.results conf1rmad-thevdioxin6, but you _V1f1rm6d.th6 d16x1ns. and they? re g?tt1ng m6r6 66661116 hart 666 3. 7 8 at 61 but you 8186' 6611 th6 custom6t, 818 you, 61:? .Exh1b1t 1286 you got mor6 conf1rma t1on of your Santophen rdsultf. scmathing :866 looks -11kal 2 3. 7. 8 16 your Santoph6n1 A That was 666 Apr11 18?h?msating. y66, 61:. I . 166, and you wart in the m66t1ng whera yen 6618 166' 8186'6'6611 the customnr, and you 666 686 0660866 6636166 666- No; 61:. -Q-V And latar on 16 January of 1980, I th1nk 1t 16, on I MR- What's th? 6xh1b1: numbar, Mr; Carr1.' MR. CARR: Could you give him Exh1b1t 1286 please. _The data of that exhibit is what, Mr. 86P81111p61 '.August 7th, 1988. 3 3 A68 that August 7th 68 1980 shows 810316 16 your Sanuophen. 86666? 16. s1r? 3, A Looks 11k6 16'6 r136: at th6 866666106 116166, wh16h 6666:1066 686th66 there is any 16 theta. QE- McPhillips. 8066 1: Show 7 parts per b111166 6f jA [It gays 2 3, 7. 8 at 61,- yas. 61r.? Q. 8666 16 that, 6666 16 6866 3 parts per 8111106? Y6s, 61:. I I 8066 16 666w 2 part6 66668111166_668 2 P?rt?1?3331 8'139' 10? 12 ,13 I4. {115 . E16 17 181 ~19? :10 7:21 '22, I 23? . 511111131127. En SEptEmber of 1980 of one part per b11110n? -'thE Exhibit says that that ?06132?8 with 2, 3 7. 8 TCDD. . Er EcPhillipE ?5 19791 You 3130 are concarne? about losing 2, 4 d1chlorophanol 'Es_a product, area ?t you, sir? ~i'ybu Enderstand now that chErE was that which coalutes w1th ELthEa and Ep ?111 '82. don' you, sir? sir;'1' 1Q DoEs 1: show that, 31:, even as late as August of 1984 EThac a what 1t state a, Yes. sir. Of somathing that coelutEs with.2. 3 dan' know 1f 1: statas that. 3 3 Well 1: says -5 13"brrxai .1 wuuldn know. wouIdn' know that? Well tEka 1: from ma that Dould you hand h1m,Exhib1t 124513139 b1Eas+;? (Pause) Q. And befbrE you leak at that, direct yaur attEntion ?f baEk to PagE 3 of Exh1b1t 1247.wh1ch is our name Ef Apr11 18: 1 It's a concern, yEs; sir, it was ?And" of coursE. you-undErstand, understo?d thEn End: :45f1A?1 I know about '82 -31r. "-140 .L 3 7, 8 fauna in the 2, 4 d1?hlorOphEnol in En1:1p1E tests PENGAD. co.. BAYONNE. 0700: [mm IL no '11. '121'1 '13- 115 116 17 18 '19 720' 22' 23' 41301 a 112:18 eariier. 1982. saptembar. 1982 65 parts par 'Tper b11110n in your tetra: f8: 2. 4 d1ch1orophenol? 1t. 31r;1f that 338181: catra?cly states the find1ngs in ?.?Saptembar of ?82have shorthanded 1: here. "Carr? 4 from your 2, 4 diehlornphenol the tatra.diaxins or that wb1eh I . You 308' knew that. 31:2 Didn? you sea Exhibit 1811110n 18-88: tacras for year, 2=4 ?iehloIOphanol 146 parts? A 1 333 that. 2 2 Q: It 18 apparant. 83.48cP81111ps, that you 316 no: ai1m1nato the 2. 3, 7, 8 130mg: 18 your 2 4 dichlotophenol.1sn?t A Saptamber of '82? Which cna ?5 Q4 4YesTh;c 1: slephmhar '32? 4 4 I MR..88363AVE: Carr, you sa1d 2, 3. 7. 3 - 1111th Exhibit 1301. 2 MR. 88598583. 4- isomar. T813 13 ?63238; 18'3988 88: say 2, 3 7. 8.. Objact. your 8880:, to Mr. Carr 3 question. A 13 says tatras. 1t doasn' say 2, 3 7. 8 31:. 2838' a true. but the sxh1b1: says 1: coe1utes wit8 THE 881: a second, Go 80w. McPhillips. you 316 net e11m1naza aha d1ox1n? 7eoa1utea 12 3838.18 fact 15 an isomer that coalutas with 2 3 7 8; .1411; A wow" rupm 126 6139' that cort?ctl.' 81?? . 332? VIAA I guess :hac' 6 what the 66:6 says._sir1 536' Th6 666: paragraph says that you' :6 going :6 have :61 14i'maIfy F6116k~L6ncro. who has aakad yen a question.wh6ther 6r Wow. hera' 6 cust666r that 19 6666613163 6636!:h6 t1gh:..? 66d yau 66y you' :6 going to not1fy them wh?n h6 3 761 :Aska the 6666:166 D16 yen no:1?y h1m. 61:? I 666 6666 661665 8: _:h6r6 that 6666615 16 :6 6:166 a 166:6: :6 Fallek-Lancro 36 '9'.3666 a rev16w 16 66-b6 made by 108a1.; D62y6u 666 th6c.g6167_ I. A Yeb. 61116?1 =1$o 666 that austcmar 6V6: neti?16d2 They 66k6 think they 66:6. ya?. sir -- 13 Q3: Oh 4.3-. I 3'114_3 3A.. >36: 6 letter. I . . '96. 6h6r6 16 :66 mama that chay 66:6 told? Wh6re 16?: .1661366113.33 A 3'13661d not 6 166?6rg 61:. 5fg1313? W611 h6r6 it 16 :h6y' :6 36163 to wr1te a 16:66: 66 I66 6 that what It says? A ,1206 . I 534 ThAt' 6 what 16 666666. 61r. Jus:.bscause :66 16:66: 11* tha 60666' 6 mean 1: was 6666. 616. 22 ?3 1Q ma 6666:6616 mule the letter? 81:. I 666? 6 knew. You' v6 36: to 66k _Hr. 66:661f 3 '662422f16666; If I 666611 he did 666 a drafe Of a 16:66: 66366666. PENGAD BAYONNE. "07002 FORM 2?8 10 12 i4 15 11161 'v17' 'H'_1s 19 go 1, l-.2i.27 1_22- of yours that Fa11ek-Lancro was evur told, avun by telephone.- 1an' that correct, 91:? And 1: want to 1sga1 No. 31:. I Al' Sir. 1 dan' know 1f it want to legal or not. sir. I r331 1y don' know. - And Mt. EcPh1111ps, you havn no firsthand know1edga, ,Yes, sir. :hay ware._l You hava firsthand knowledge of that? IUe?talked issue of diox1n_ 'You talked 1b than yoursalf,-did,you? .W?vtaiked dioxins with inid'you_calk dieting yoursalf. 31:? "Yas; air; 1 think.sa. - A?d1whenfwas that,_s1r? .Oh. God. in $33 in that summer; Baca?sa D11 you maka a memo of it. 811?. 31: . a mama of 51:27 ?mum: I That yqu 311133.10 than and what you told themmama? . "Bu: 1: didn' a get any farthar than 13331 did 31:1 143' 10 711 . 12 .437: 914' i-ls?f A "17 1I197 - Idli. .zzAf .3723- --724'1 5_ m.nat asking :1 I 1f I racall whan AA t?lke-d: to AUAA MR. UUSGRAVE: Q5 what. AirI . . . If you AAlkAd to AUAA. 31:, A16 yAu tAlI than About d1oxin 1A your product? A 7 I Acn' what AA told but Q1 1' m_not Asking you whAt you told them, Mr. A Sir. 1: bAAn a long I?m trying to? a? -Q 1 Again you 'rA aay1ng my quantign specifically A '144?_ Hr. McPUiIlipA. do you UAVA Any 1ndApandAAt rAcollectlon todAy AhAt you ever talkAd AA anybody Au FAIlek-Lancro follow1ng AU1A mama of Apr1 1 18th 1979 and bAfArA 1AA, 1980? YAA, A11, I discuss1ng th??vthk of dioxins, 81! . And when was that AA AUA of yen: SomAt1mA 1n the summAr of 1979. I And whAt did you AAII tUAm, s1r?think I told our surpr1AAaf1AdingA. .I think I told them AUAA we werA 1n the thrAwA of Ary1ng to eliminate, Aodifiad AA try AA I?ii?iagt AA A 9A1AA whArA they wouldn't bA A hazard 11 n.1, mum u. u? 10' ii?; . .13 ?314_;m 15? 17 i]19 A -922, 13331 I recall :hAy also Asking EA: information because on 2 4 I II dichlorophenol the USDA or something was talking to them., And A 1Q ThAt' A a1tuAt1An that came up sAmn t1mA Intar,rM1? McPh1111ps. summar I nh1nk 1: was r1ghc aftAr than, g1r,;13. 71" know, 1t' A bAen 81x,yAars. .3 . A I think WA hAvA A memo l1ng w1th that and 1' don' haw: 1: 1mmnd1ately but we'll get to thAt,_ AI sure 1f one ax1sts. WA: that A.mamp by y?u? 31:. now I don't think 1: was A memo. 13 MR.. MUEGRAVE: Ma' nine: Aalk1ng ..A1 1 d1an sAy A . MR MUEGRAVE4 You Asks him about whA: he d1scussad ?uich :hAm and hA A 3AA: tApeatAd that. A And I repeating whAz I d1scussed with :hAm. UR. can you 1dane1?y ah. memo? Theta was no msmp. A1r.. IAU know. 8?3 avuryth1ns 151K by mamas. especially 1n sAlAs and mArkcting. I Rb. we do hava A mama About A d13cns?1on with 83.. thorn 1a any d1ox1ns 1n Aha 2, 4 d1chlarophenal A Idem: 15,1 444 1 1 put than in cont?ct with our te?hnicAl poAplA AA help answer sAma Af their quoatiAns, I ch1nk Uh: gAvurnmAnU a?k1ng ??CarnAy ef the USDA 1a which ha says FAIlAk-Lancro is asking him CO.. BAYONNE. NJ. 07002 231_5? H114 chlorophanol And you it's 1n av1dance here. I don't have the ?numbor of 1: and you' to telling Dr. Carney to be sure and tall u: ab 3: Falldk-Lancro 11nd: but about diox1n 1n 2, 4 61- HR MUSGRAVE: Hr. Carr,? -- I objict to Vcaunsel's paraphran1ng a documnnt. your Hauor. The documont spanks 1ta?1?.The Accumant 1: 1n evidence and I object to counse1 paraphras1ng the do?umen:. '1 I THE 6008!: Obja?t1on 18 overruled. HR. 1:35 incorrget C0631: abjehtionvovurrulcd. I I Mr. McPh1111ps. what you told Fallek~Lancro, 1f any-? thing. was no: reduaad ta writtng in any way. was 31:? -A Prabably n93. 51:. no. . And if you told them anything, you told them that yau? ta go1?g to 611m1nato 1: becauaa of*th? praeeas change. 4.1sn' that correct, air? A I don' know 1? I Would state 1: that strong. sir. - but I?d say that we war; mAk1ng a canscientious effort to rgdu?? the levels of Yes, sir, whArc it wouldn't ba'a 1 . ?fob1?m or An am1aent7hazard.I 4 H511, did you consider va1ou31y yen: objactiva 1s always to re?ne: anythingv' -I1'1u turns of?any kind 01 impur1cy. 11246 - 'zlo -20' 22 23, ?24 covorad that it was 1n your 2 4 dichlorophenol? 6: dichlorophenol . dMn' make that aec1316n. ;I;McPh1111ps. I?man on tha totaM.p61e in this masking hat: 831 I was writing I report. 13 1: not, Matcd May of '79? Q. That's n6: what asking yen, Mr. McPh1111ps. 1913J?.IlIii 31:, I don MR. what 11ms7' In ?79 you discovuIra1 that 1: was in your 47I A 31:, I don?t th1nk we did. YoMmkMaM._1ik? I 1111,g11?j You Mare at a mseting 1: was discussed Mr. Yes air, and I don' racall. It dMean?t sp?cifiealiy,I stata gee -- 31:. all I MM: doing 13 ?211113 the I173 IiminuMMa oi what the meeting was. I maybe M13353 1:1. I Man 10w! I the Minutes and I Might not havu covarcd every 1ssue 1M this '.letter. 51:. evarything that Mas d1scussed 1n ch19 Q. Do you havM Exh1b1: 1245? A150: it. 39 you have it? 1245 is a suMMaty 6! a M313 3 a *Yas. 1: says May of '79. .IQ "Mbuld you turn to an: air. 6"you 3633113: 1: anseainent hazard at that Mhen You .10 An 12 l3 14 15 1'6 .17 1.8 .21 22'. j~ .Q New. th1R 13 no: Wr1tten by you. but 1: is wr1ctan bij,A 1 ;Crosa, Kilbournc. HcEwan, and J. D. Dr. J. 3.7 _'_w1lson. isn-t?1t. 31:? A Tth?R th: 1: status. 31:. If you turn to page numbered two of that exh1b1e. 'wbuld yo.ui do that. 31:. A AYRR. 51:. GARE: And. yo?r Hanor,'ch1s has been pravioubly.? R1n Rv1dence RR 1243A. A A . THE coUR'r: F1113..- S1r? you.maan No. 2 2. R02 2 at Page 2 of distr1bntion.- 2. f?kay.- Attha tap of em page the number (2-. -. fYRs. ?2 13' iv. aha cRuRt1c, And you Ruppresaed :hR d10x1n ?atmat1oR? dioxins cRuld be ?Rtocth .1n any of RhR'RRm?les. Thus 1: was clear :hR: Rho R11m1nat1qn? the caustic erR.:hR 3111199: effect1valy dioxin. A the proeRRs samples. stap pur1f1cation of PCP 5148 ?You thin that the fact that you 311R1- 7-9? If BAYONNE. 07002 FORM IL 2?5 I IE I 112'. >?13 14? 15 l6I 11.7. II20jIlv' 21 and wbEE yen E316 1n 1E 1E docs w1Eh the fact you' vE suppEEsEEd fErmEEb IDE that? pagE 1E frEm toxicological 4,m838?r& with 1: is new such En extramaly iasEE A . 730 you that. air? IE Eh: to my qEEatiEE 45 It also nEys but are not me: mum? Mr.Hc?h111ips I THE Yes, 1r, 1' E,Eorty. . ITKEICEURI: TEE waE Eskcd. Row 4e IE the answer EE my quasEiEn you do see that Eh1s of diaxihs by Eh. of caustic? I don't knEw-1f 1E_ans Egpptaascd. uses sixth thus Eha: A.- aha: 1E Eir. And would you go ?own EE Ehird paragraph En Ehat 11E1E 1s~pEEbEb1y par: pet biliion. This quantion 1E w1Eh DEER Earl in 31E. Ehia. Ef course. 13 yEu said havE said 1n - .. 1-49- Lona PENGAD anvuvmt. N.J. uiuw- Imam IL ?8 10' If12 i3, 1111gods down to one part per b1111on at d1ox1ns. 1sn' 1-tha: correct. 31:? I'1'aboun, th1s mum? 1a talking about any d1ox1ns 1n the ch1or1nata? ._phono1a, 1sn' - 11m1t1ng concentraaians. Fram.pract1cal tox1colog1ca1 eans1der - Rownvar. because 1: 13 now such an extramnly emotional issua I bu our customers. Do you see that, . The documsnt spanks for 1taa1f. I A. That's what th.at states there, 31:, yes. 311.7 IQ Thay' :3 not talking about 2. 3 7. 8 TODD, thay' ra ta1k11 A I don' know about that, IQ 15a ?1 that when 1e says? MUSGRAVE: .Q can navar say that our chlorophanols conta1ns no d1ox1n or dibenzo futans, on1y that they era ba1ow some small ?it? 1 see that, air. And that ca1k1ng abeuu diox1na patio d.1sn' M81 EBSGRAVE: Object to the quaat1on, your Haber. - that d1ox1n 1n the product.may no: bu ancaptab1o no your customnrs Tnn1ons that 11m1t 1: probably about one part per b1111on. This: .we can,mnasure w1th present cquipmant with improvad 1:33.60u323 0b30?t1on 1s uvarru1a?. is this I A PENGADVCOH BAYONNE. NJ. V07001 3015: lreperc af May of '79 d1d concluda with regard to euatamars that - 16 17 18 19- .261 I 21 22_1 23 1 a 3056 point 50: a short break27 rasuming the witnaas stand having boon pravioua1y sworn. 2'3? MR. cAaR:. vyau aaknowledga that one part par b1111on may non ha aacaptabla the mama, but you at Hana auto acknewladsad that ana par: par b1111on in your chiorophanols wbuld no: ha accepta? -?by year customara. 1sn': that correct. a1t2 the r1ght to Maka :ha1: own dac1a1ona about their haalth and 'f24"thair custamara' health don' a they, a1r2 GARE: Sura. your Honor.. THE 6003!: 91.11 taka a short break a: th1a ttma. Tha admoniahmanta that I'va g1van you aarl1ar M111 apply dur1ng'4' th1s break also. Court' a 1n raccaa. (A: th1a tima a abort ra can: was takan. JOHN teac1f1ad furthar as 1011owa: c3035 EXAMIHAIION (ContiMuad) THE COURT: 'okay. Mr-. Catt. '1 I don? think I asked you w1th ragard to the exhibit that you havu in your hand now 1f that taper: of and - A 3acausa of tha extramaly annuionai 1aaua, lyns.? .151 . to tha customnra v- by you. I don' maan d1dn'e .- -Qv You: customata have tha tight to be amoe1ona1 and hawa 5: franc: whether 1t? 3 a v1ab10 coupl6166 66 666' '16' 1-11: 10 13 1:6:66fjffabout dioxin. that r1ght. {1;i?13111f they that way about something. thsy VB ROE ?56 61866 66?_6666 66213566; ?nal that any and.:hoy have right to allow tha1r cautions '62 20'1-1'31'1to control that ?action. to winch?: my w111 or I111 not; I. 175 if; Etha1r products. I :hsy. air? 6 *ffl??il.f' 23 No. 1' I talking about: 116-1 . #6?T??6612ff655f6? HR discussod that 1sIuI Iar11er.; cogaumgrs or what hiV!. People R93: somnthing and they 11354-25R6: Just a reaction and that as: wt warI 1- =Iorc 55 Wham an mantionod Imot1onal. 1t' I not tram I health ?figand safety. Ht wart IorI cancernnd Ivan 1f 1t VII Raalch and 3f no: RI sat1sf1ad with IR. chlorophenol tha:.RIs onI yarn pa: health safety had I I.:alk1ng Imot1onal 1R tIrIs If authoring 111?9? v.11 they have tho ugh: -- 66666 6666 Oapccially of In 1ssu? likI dioxin 11' 3 f??166 Hull they -6 you acknowiadgo and you recogn1ze 'iiI that and rIport of of '79 the: custamars would I 2R11119n of any d1oxin 1R it?becauna of their IIot1ana1 thaling g'_5Rf1 I don2R3: earlier. i?j And you do racogniae IRI: [6 tRat :Roaa. custamars,uI' safety. that. a lot of ?nationalism because of prune. That's the statemane Ry than: anchors, yea. 61"21516 1 1101?.? 1 ,61'1613111 11 1 want: .11 1112 11 113m: 11 1211111111 666 I having Eh! righ: c6 66 afraid 1f 6 663 :66: Clobbers 6: the mouth? 7; l?x1l76h61: Own Imotionl? 666' I have :66 right 66 ?661 6?2616,6f 1.11119"1"1to that f661163? 116zrg1 116" $9 ?66: fear? 1??3115;th6?66rd irrational :66. w1?f6wn emotions 16 :h6 way th6y ?661 61666 things. .13111A115 Their 616 66661666 16 regard 66 markating concerns? f?gwhathar 6t 66: h66. 61:. 6661: 666 66661666. 1181!? hava the 21321:. We ware talking.6boualwhathar 6t 66: th6y 666 6h6 .1 fright :6 know, and you 6616 thay 666' 6 h6v6 th6 right 66 k66w., Their own 66661666 66 t6 66w chgy ?661 66666 dioxin..j6y_, 11Qk1_ Th6y h6v6 ch6 right :6 16666 66661666. 666 thay.6 ?41 >15 They hava :66 tight; th6~16y you 162666 16;ry6bg-thgyafg 5? ?56? 16 theta 66y 663 that they 666' hav6 666 right :6 ;1<2 might 66 1666616661- 1; might-66266 6666166._ That 663 might 711l?1 1:538t 66 thirsty. but 666'1 1 h6V6 666 righg 66 that 6666166, 1:2-1' Y66.hawn :h6 right but 24"1 Y66. 61:. you 66v: :66 right, 66: y6u 6166 6666166 666 asking you whether 61- n6: thay 1:166 6116 right; :96 that PENGAD (20.. NJ. 07002 FORM. IL Its A ?10 . _"'19 H.209 -zr' ?_722 if I 9899 99 be a '9939193'99 an: anyth1ng that hasnn.ad6191vi p99 in 19. don?t I -hava99h? r1399 99 999199, daotionaliy?19'999 be. becauso.thate Anny 999 b9 anough av1dance :9 99991999 9 99919991 phrson 11kt A I all kinds of things 199_ :food 99119 y99 may ra9199911y 991nk '15 I 9999 to 19 699999191ng what ?996 1' 9939193 to 999. what . ?90 91399. 19 might be 9939 ?99 99, 999 don? 9 I has: 999 91399 . 91ght be. as emotional as I 91599 90. &99 9 I hava_9he r1gh: - 999 639119 fbr'myself? yonrsol? that add1ng dya and ?996 99199193 and phospha9es 39d that 19' a s111y for mm to that I 699' 9 want 99 out 99996 991933 and 19' 199919931 ?99? 99. b9: I"m ask1ng ydu. Hr. 609' I havn the 91399 99 be governed 9y my emotions, medic1nea 9 going to 939. what-chemicals I m?391ng 99 be expoand 99$99 way yau 39199 tha*q9999199, $98,931:. . Is that! any other way is 99999919? 999?9-99 all.- ha?a' . 1 all Q, Excuse:ma. La: 99 ?191 39 my 99?39199. D99 9 99 911 have 999 right 99 $9169 our destiny by our 991192 999 what came I '913 man in 9 99999999199 thinks 9139: be 3996 99? H9 91ght:l 99 dac1de for myself. stup1d as I 91399 99. 1999919991 39 I '1 A. I99 way you 89999 9999, :19. I d1sa3999 W199 y9u.l 911.54 an 3333 333 33:3 3305 31 ?331333393 93 33 393339 3?33 33 33 1,3333 303 33 333 as 30133303309 033393Q3 33 333333 33.3313 aqai'y: E-Z 33313., a 3333330d303 333 933333 133013333 33 03 933333 ?3 33 303 pagan 1 3:33 fxw. '303 30 93333 n; 3133 303 3333 303333303 33 1 as 33; .7 '3Is ?Aoua?no? an 333 oa?noi 331333 3,1 ?9,5 33 ?ars *3933 as? 0: warn p.noa 733 s; '233333 33 33933 3333 n05 33w: 3313-3333 31 li'b'* I I #313 ?333 fv_?3 -- 337133.333: 0,3233 31 _f:q?taCIIV .b '39 83333 1 '33& '333' V- '3?335 03 put 31 3p??3.auaod oqa 3333 no; 335.303533 . max 3333 34011.3 n9; 'aq?tz'ttv ;b ?318"eaxs" (um Rain taz?wayp no; I 3395 an? 335 93393 I zaqm ?anus n05 333 3 39;? I ;'71 1n? ?1 3333 ?Iiva-i'll 3338 Axaaotdmoa a; 3anp33d 333 1333' 33 Ba 8361 33 '3333033 333 33 333333 3333133 us put 8313113d?13233l tanuasu?? :8 333313933 330& an 333333 ?3 p?;?qs 7 . ?au?xslatqz_st 5 '3?3333tppifu3 30 tusxunqa 30 33;33~3 30 aonpoid_u 3noq3 1333' .1333 30'3301333203-31 03 03 33833 333'303 33,303 ?39.63t3? ?S?urun a?oat 1 Isi '8l7 913 S?l . . fl lit? 1r" .. OI . ?Il H803 ZOOLO 'f'N "03 PENGAO C0.. BAYONNE. NJ. 07002 FORM 248 10 . if .12 13:1. lsi?? 1311:"yeu think What your posit1on 13. In terms of my Pos1uion l?I A 1' 20 . 21-. :21; vehlorinaced phone In cont1nued to have d1oxin Icvuls evnn afzar "in your chlorin?ca? phenols on your confixmazary beekup stats?? I 603' make :ha poa1t1on 9 lat: any asked by W1lsan and Edwards and others to send out ?f?l?tt?r?jSOHS$ar11ng Drug and to Othar BEE-customers Chg: a Of thair view? A 1' The way you ask that quaat1on. I guess so. 31:. THE COBRI: sorry. I didn baa: your august. I guns: so. 01:. (Plaint1ffs' Exh1b 1: 1555 was markad for 1dant1f1cat1 I, Row,I 11 hand you now Exh1b1t 1555 and lat ms ba?k 'Iup a momnnt. Isn' a your presun: v1aw of your customsrs? r1ght. "1Bn' a it a v1aw that yen arr1vad a: after you laarnad that your-1' you did add1t1onal testing in point-of time? I My v1?w on dioXIn Could yau 4+ my questian 13 d1d you arr1va a: that view aft?r at bafbrelyau.disc0vured that d1oxins.wara presann 1 A Reva: really thought about 1t'befbra. Than 1: has to ba than aftar? HA 1 If aha situation. the situation as presented to you, ?all, matter of fact. yea 10? La: as she? you.sb?a~ -'th1ng, 1555. and ask you 1f you did not before 1: was confirmaaH e~l 13: we back up a mement. Weren' you sometiaa in Jana or - - 156'. CO.. NJ. 07001 Ill] '210 12' 13? .14 11215~ 116 17- 18 .20 _21.5 22 . '23 2 Court. .with Santophan, para, re1avhnt and immaturial. It? ?1n 21mg from the spill so as to havi any 222222222 valua when waighad against othar cansidarations. wa sn' Hr. MtPh1111ps? Veustomera to 3:2211ng Drug and two Oahu: PCP 222222222 baaud Pupon h1e statement to you that 222 samp1e of santophen or PCP 'and/or found no ran? in 1sn' that correct. 51:? 222222 322912301 22'222,22 Sancophe22f A no, sir. Q7 Look as Exhibit 1555 and sea if you don' recognize that as a memo Oi yours dated June 1A.19 79. Is 112.211? Yes. 81:. MR. CARR: the . MR. auscaAv2:_ 025222 to 12. you2 22222. ,12.?2213? TPE 8939:: It' admittsd ova: objection. f12:_ (Exhib1a passad :9 the jury .1 Q. This memo dated June IAth. 1979 was written by yon, A 1 Yes. sir. . a'And 12 212 go 22 22. Wilsen. 2122 2 12. 212? A Yes, sir. And it mentions a pr1or d1scnas.1en that yo had w1th Wilson in which 1: was contemplated that you were 3?1ng to_ 2224 :'j157 '?flf" A 1311' .. 1? a? D13 letters becauD a yeu, as you say hDrD, I hardly believe on:- Dig?jl D;Dfi? A9 I "f121113 I EDD DD problems sending a let?ar to DD: 'Zusend1ng DDeh a 11:22: .1 d1scussion that you found no TODD e1tDDr 1n .no1thor-? ~1 Santophen net 1n PCP7 Shim what my poD1t1on 4- ?ah; aanDr ta that and, and now I want to ask yaD 1_-ragard1ng Dhe Sautophan and the PCP find1ngs? _Dhat theta 1D no TCDD 1n a1th?r pradnct? g_1Dw1tD suatamanz :53: you Da1d :6 D: I 611 not want to sDn? D16 you n0: d1D?ussian w1th Dr. W1ison about Yes. I had such a discussion w1th Dim. 1 And d1d you not. 41d ha no: t?ll ygu ubD: at tha Ba 1011 mo that 1n on; Damplo. 91:. but I told gQ. menu m. w. McPhillips, if you clan r. mind. 1 got I ?you.noc d1scusa w1th Dim abauz send1ng lattars to tho customers- I Did. fsampie each 1D rcpreaantauiva of our recent production. and 01 .1 quote? That 13 caercD. . D1dn'D you that bacauan 61d not want to Sir, 1: not a qucst1on I did net want. I diaagtee?? And d1?- yeu.not celI him. :hat you don? a want :9 aand .1 I ?-155. ?mud on; this lactic: until you got con?ma?on that: was truDQTw PENGAD BAYONNE. N.J. 07002 '19. 1_10 I. 21I 24" 1 but on: gravious analys1s and some analysis on dioxin we fauna scan in there, and.1t wasn conclusiVe; therefbre . I took the . .Vpas1t10nI hay. 'vn got to generata more data. In ch13 can: 111' '3 just the 1avarsa, Mr. Cart. to wh1ch I stats we Vt only .301 one tapresantaaive sampia whe1o 11.3 no; If we-usad the: ?log1c bafbre whether thara? sumo bafbre and no: new, hey, _Ifthis 1.1'3 a two~way strata. so 1e:' 3 go: sown more data, 1 at: that. a what. I am. that. Un111 you couId back 1: up with more tests Isn' that 'corract. s11? I In?oad and that's been the thrust of my question.. ?You 611 not want to sand a 19:10: to the custamars telling them' that that: was no ICED 1n product unt11 you get conf1rmatign f-Au -I wanted to gas more c0n?11ming data. yes, s11. Q'Yes. baeause -- ?hathar and 11111 was in em1nent ha??id?alsa;' say that 1n'ha1e; ?9 ycu.181111 HO. . 5 a >19 I Excua? ma, MtPh1111?a; yOu 453?: any that, ?g I 1 I I Ihht'a'corr?et. I 116 not 3131. that. letter to the custome1s telling than. aha, wa v1 checked our samples, and 11nd no ICED. =an=1g sayingI You' 1: discuss1ng whather or not you' 13 gaing to sand? 7 159 wow IUNM u. an - 7 70:77 .17 In, . ,13? 157:9 16' 17 19';6 1231'11 1124"f?5r66311, 66:6 G1va6dan and an outf1t 661166 I7,wa' :6 no: going 66 send that iatter 66611 w: gat additional '6'verification? V111 ibrward the customs: latter; you see that. 51:? 6 1?66 y6u mean by say1ng that w: own thaSa customsra. Starling )D1ug. Lana 66d F16k and yaur ether PCP 66stomcrs a suspense? the $11. "616 bab1y varba1. j-custamars a response? 611 That' 8 6611666. 31:. And than you say 6666 66 have 6661116661 var1ficat1on' A 6133, I set that. Yo6 say 66:6:66 666 thesd'euhtohnr? a raspans?. VWhac 'ffA Ste.rling Drug and tha two PCP. becausa they-requested; Q.7 Oh. thay didn't requsst any 6666 666 16 which they A- 56?rling_Drug information? 7 I 666?6'166611 -- sir. I 666' recall tha Starling 1 ghr?g 1nquixy a: 611. but the two PCP customers 61:. they tr N6, 511, theta 6696 I have asked for 6nd Mbnsanca?V has produced evary document dea1ing w16h 6656666: 26666616 and -6661163 61th customer 60:166. Tharg is no: any. Hr. McPh1111p6;, and 16 6166 of that what do you maan whan yea say we theta 1 '?577Au 3666636 the customers. the :we PCP custnmers. if I PUKM 1?6 . HQVONNE. N.J. 1'04 ?113. :14. i5 1 I .177 . 1.9.x) "V211'?wha: y?u.ade to customers, d1dn': V.you, 31:1 Miif . '..24Mf{l 1 who by the any._ I 609' think . MM ever sold PCP to eer, and Vand 1s therM dioxins in parachlorophenal -f I don' ramMMb or ?respanae. them that wasn any. {those are the custoMers you' re talking about. I havM thus: 11 be show1ng -thosa to yo in a momMch. But.you? v9 got ?Starling Drug included in :harM. 31:. I I .based upon just one sampla.V isn' that right. air? lI?na Gh?ns?? your mind about whether or not yen ode they askgd questions of whether that: was any dioxins in PCP Pith: exact quast1an to which MM ware @0133 to give them a V, 1.. VB got those VIbM,rMsponde by :5111ng Se 16: MM ask about this, 31:. IhosM are IMtters right thare. and 1' 11 bM show1ng your lettarsV' to than..j ?mhgg.? I ?A?a MAM raspa??a? And 1: is your? belief that you should not tell them That' a what I stat: theta, 81:. yes. 31:. I New, you.changad you: m1nd about chatV. Mr. McPhillips? Iv Mo, a1r. [19; WMII Maw, Mr. MMPhillips. yoM? nevar?aotifiad than. 1,151 roam IL in: 'PcNqu co.. amount. rm. 01002. 10, ?21119 212312 2j?lvv 16' '517 jg .- 2?0 22222, 2.331f "Mr HnPhillips, you' we never not1f1ed than that there?was TCBD 11a these PCP Or in Santophan, haw! you -ha~u ibund ICED in your or 1n your San:0phen. hawn you. F,str? 1,*w1th tha witness just 1n front cf you than as 1ato as May of was diaxin in your Santophgn and.1n your PCP.. we hava thus. 1 no: conclus1va. beaause 1f 1 raca11 we were A I forget exactly what I a:atod.1 think a: than atmgv '86, you told-him chgre wh?n'c any 1n'1t. From the pravious rasulta lQi? Hy quest1on 13 you' vn nova: not1f1ad them that you CA not that I recall. 31:. A 9e11, 31r,_1 don't :acall, 1 mean.yaa?9u got 29?- 7*?1g out B?ma cf thase31381ysea eh}: wa ibun? diaxins. wall. we havn the analysis of tho PCP wu.want chraugh_ 7' ?79 and th1s 13 a result than cams in 1a Juno there-H rasulcs hers alraady. ?y?A But thoaa results were vary tantat1va and :hdy war. Exgusa me. who says that they were :entat1va? tantattvn *vF ,W011,,we 2-9 mm offact. yaujseld him jun: tha opposing.- didn't: 2 162, flO 12 I3- l4I ,17 18. 193 1-I 1?20. 21; '?22 23 I124i7533ieh 31333 at 3 333333133 of 2 3 333 :ho33 333 31333 to 333331 I 1113 113313 could you 33: 11351 1: 3133:: be here the 9:10: 3133333; I: 13 h3r3.- 3 nothing :e3taz1v3" abo?t 33333 {1361353. 13 :h3re, 313? -A -- I 33313 hava to ask my 333331331 p3apI3_f.? I.wha:h3r ?313.13 tentative or not. You' :3 taking 33-33: 3 ?,33 II fi?lTh3 tech31cal people hava 3333 fully 33331333 33333" fully Iaxaminad. and thgy didn' 3 3311 it 333333133. 31:. 1Th333' 3 3333133 13 th3 3333333: th3t 33113 3333 tantat1v3. 133 333323, 31:? 7 Sir. I h3v3n' read :33 ?311? documant. I D1d. somebody tell you b3fbr3 you 333313133 3323 tadny thgeI_ 33333 13 ?333 33:3 tentative findings? 533? 3 know 1? the word t333331v3 HR. HUSGRAVE: Object to counsel 913 sem3b?dy 3311 yeu?befbr3 you 333311133 33:3 tadty 1, 'thgc th333 ware 33ntac1v3 51331333? COURT: 033333133113 overrulcd. A.I II. what I recall '~Then 313 you 333 3 ?ccument'whera all th333 3b. 1 1t 3 a 1333 list of findings ware descr1bed as tentativu? It 3333 herg ch was reparted as two 533333, 1303333 THR.IMUSGRAVE: Object to that calling for hearsay. 153?? HAVONNE. NJ. 07002 -FORM IL 24?'16 '17 '.195 520 .21 _23 7? 24 '5r5555t155 51555. 5 they. 31:? 5 51:. 515:5 thay, 51:? 7 where they deactiba thase as tentat1v5 f15d1ngs? ?L'semcth1ng to y5ur custamnr5 55511 youwwera 55:5, yau'wantod '1 what 6555, 515? . I -.5: They' rd :51k1ng about TCDD. 5:55 It_ they, 31:? 5 DA These levnla do 55: 1mp1y 6-: I Q5 . Exche 55. 51:. They' :5 5515153 about TODD. 5255 't Those 5?7 9555.52 the sdntencc'I just rtad I Q, And shay :5 not taiking about any ta5tat1V5 f1ndings, . A I guns: 1f you.w55t to us. the word 55 I?m 55: 55555153 15 there any word 15 chars .. Nb. 51:, no; that I can 555. 555, yau? V5 3515 at this 5155, 15 I understa5d the thrust of your 1555 5555. yea reglly 5155': 555: to misrepresg5Lv vur1flcat1an betbra.you :5 going to tell ?555.:hat there 5 5o TCDD 195' that right, sir? I 55 Q. A. T55 way you_phra?5d that?questicn, yes. 51:; . Q, . 'Yes. Haw, y?u_gbt the.documentv 44"1135 15-55556 Magnum? amounting: mung ram mm 'Nr -. 10 1 12 .R13- ?14 . 15?' 15; I 2596' 20 .6 21 22 yf23 24?] ,126h. d1dn? 6 you. 31:? ;pr6b16m to show 1: 66 you. 116: 1666:1f1cation. g66f that exh1b1t? And you'wrdte a 166:6! :0 7093'033999929 ?323?1y'th??f651~ A I don' reda11 the data. 61r.. U611. we hava 1: 21gb: here. and11t 666': 6 0 any (P161661ffs' Exhibit 1556 was markgd 1666611166t? Handing you P_161ntiffs' Exhib1t 1556 and 66k yen if that y6u wrote dated July 12th. 1979.6 A Ihgt' a my letter. sir. -Q A I didn' t_hear your answ?f. 6A Ihath my letter. yss. 61:. 6 0616: 155R into 6V1d?6?6._ Any Objectien? . _3 76R. MUSGRAVE: Yea, year 3666:. an object 66 6n tha grounds that 1: deals with parachlorophanol 666 it also remot?'invtim? ?r66 the 6166 65 6h6 39111 to be probativa _?th6 166663 here and when waighc? against 6th6r consid6rat1ana.6;5 THE COURI- Object16n 1.9 overrulad 16' a admittcd HR. CARR: And could 1 Raw 1555A please. I (4161:1116 1:165 Plaintiffs? Exhibit 1555A 66:16:: 9? you recognize 15561 as a 616666 6? the 666666 p3566r gyou.r66636136 the 666666 page of that exhibit as being a 18?2?211 1 6-.116 "?13 -,15 16' I7 ?2_:0f ?7 21 '~24 616 from 666 of the 666666616 that you referred so in th6 E66161 666:6 you 6166' 6 want 66 giv6 a raspon6e. 136' 6 that "2 '6 _:1361. Sit? ;dat6d1J666 1666, 179.- New, what's the 6666 oniPiaintiffsf 'v?66hib1: 1135. 61:? 2666663 66666 6h1636. Table 3 showing r666166 of 66666 66 various chloroph6nola. 166' 6666 6666666. 61:? "f16, 616? CARR: O?f6t 1556A into evidan?ngI' - S666 objection as to 1556. TTHE COURT: $666 r611ng. IQ 'I?Now; Er. McPh111196. 1556A 16 a 16666: that apparantly*v 16666 two 16666r6 66:661666 tog6th6rl.6 ygs. 616. And year 6666 66666 1555 66666 you 666? 6 6666 66 Bi?d66 June 26th. . .. J666 26th,1979 yen go: 666 6x61616 6666 666661666 6 16666 6 6066 rasulta, y6s. . 666. having that 16666: and 6616 Exh1hit 1135 'Qi 6611.166 66 6616 you. 656 if you :6 66661637 115 report 66:11 yon get 6666 confirmatary~data. that memo 1 06 J666 2666 specifically shows 16V616 of TCDD in 66696 6 '1 II don?t know, sir.' I h6van? 6 100666 66 this closely. 1} '[1asw? PENGADVCOH BAYONNE. NJ. 07002 FOHIM IL 243 IloI C3113 g; 13- 14.II 315 3,16 3 T3313 33 3333' 3 P333 11 of PCP at 333313 727 Do y33 333 jzo than. 31:7 32 -- 13;and 333 3333: dupl1cace samp13 61d _not* 3333c: 13 33 1O .24 you.333 that, 3131 6541 And 13 3hows 13v313 0 1 TCDD.Idoean 3 31:1 L03 6 541 33333: read 3333 33313. as? Q, 1 3,33k1ng. Mr. M3P31111ps. 11 you look 33 $333 13 38653, 311 of 33033 33333 Ishaw 3333333313 13 rh3I hundredsI to 130 33:33 per 3111103 of TCDD, doesn' 3 8117 3A 1 603 3 know. 31:. 1 33338 30. I Q-I 11 you' to notI aware 01 13. 333nd3 TODD.I A I333: pag3 3:3 you an? I I T3313 3. I . . A That}; 3:631:13. I 833 ons, sir; - 1t 333w3 13v313 of ?333 190 :3 130 parts p3: I 3111133 of CLA. TCDD, 30333 3 31:1 I A-I Yes, 313. And look to 333 1333 9333 ?33 $33313 72Q 1333 98%? y. _-As 313. -Yas. 31:. andI13 3hows 3033 none 6333333313 3130. 31:. Non3_d333ctabla, 1333 3333 60; $1332you?r3 333133 3?1 T33 33333. 333 33333 33 14 parts 93: 3111133 of I33tras "110 n. 12 13 '14- 15 716 '7 11? .18 19:. 1-2011 . 17922191 MM TCDM-1M your product.? You tolthim that specifically. Our? parts 9M: billian. You tell A I Mow. you tell Mr. @311 or-Mr. that you 111' 'wotk was done year ago 1M test1ng your and you found Me TODD 1M Mark 09M: 3 year agM. you 31:. .- Maw. th.1s work that you MMVM More 1: worM was doMM 1n_1979.1JunM, 1979. 31r?-? I A I_Yes, 81And you?re g1V1ng this man infarmatibn on tests that .MMrM-eonduczad. old teats'thMt VMIM 1978.-1M the 'spring cf '76 ayparantly. Mad not telling the man about casts erM Moadnct?d 1M 1979. are yMu. 312? A I guess not, 31:. MM. I MMll. Mr. MMPM111193. yMu are 1M 1y1Mg to Mh1s Man, arMM?t you. A Mo. air. 81:. I waM Moe laa's -4 Mr. McPhillips. 1am he want1ng to know . TCDD in your product? 'You hEVM-the,> ?Mxhibigrthac shows is TODD 1M your pernMM;.1M yout' you're him that yoMr data showa?f . MM TCED in our prodth M: a 11M1: Mf 19 ICON BAYONNE. NJ. 07002. IL 2A8 11191 If? '12? 14"' (jis . .16- a :20? I 11121' v.111, I, '24 I spe?1?1cally cell?him that. IAhd.th1tlis a 911?} 1? a: Of over a Year 130. Excuse us. That statement is a 111. 18R '11 ?cPhillips? A No, 91:, 1t' 3 not.; Do you have 61: a that shows that you did h1v1 TCDD I.1 11 your product in front of you, Exhibit 113$? A1 8 1135 might say that,131r. bu: than dcasn' mean 7 that I'saw this d1ta.-June 28th, =you get the 4th of July weekend. and I never was copied in on 1 mama 11ke this so :11: doesn necessarily mean that I 111d, sir W111 ?bnsanto 11ad.d1dn't thay? YA . Sir. I den': sea any advantages ca 1y1ng.__ Q1 You ?ea 811 any advantaga 1f 1 customer 1 3 told 'fhat thare' a no TCDD 1n 1 produCt 1: might cont1nue to nag 1 _tha: product, whereas if they know ametionally they r1 going to r?ac: to if they know there' 3 TCDD 1n the product, they '-m1ght emotianally react and dacide tha thay don' Want to 111 _che facts. don? you.Mr.McPh1llips? 30.51:.1 disagree with how you misrepresent the "dtat?mg?tsg'IYVQuldIhava to talk ta my ".159 ~th1t product. You know there 11 an 1dvantage to miarapressuting"?v 313?. 31:. this data 1: bafora Igd m1ke PENGAD (20.. BAYONNE. NJ. 07002' FORM '19 421? 22"1 23'. -~24 thay had a position that I Fa?wh1ch wasn?t conclus1va,and'1 the results and was unaware of any data ganarated and whather_' tha?data was generated rapreaunted any pr?blam. . thac' a 1n charge 9E V111 thesa chem1ca1 ana1yses according ta lsir?* - ?nt11 you get additional v?r1f1?ation. so got 80mg furthar 1nformat1on -bafbre you sant out :h1s letter of ?VJu1y 12th.1sn't tha cerreet. Mr. McPh1111ps? I Idon' 't know what 1: was. Pugh; in this case JUne 12th memo,- I did an: discuss 1: with them. bacause I 5:111 was waiting for? Q: 0h l??sii'?xplore' that a' little letter of June 14ch.1979 Mr. McPh1111ps, goaa to W1ison who is the perm h1s?cost1mony. He gets a copy of this and there' 8 handwritten notas do?n.there. You got four to 31x ad?itional PCP samples a: Dayton awaiting analy913.V IsVzh your handwriting there. A. Ma; sir. 2Q M311. we pr?bahly get this from w1lson, so 11 may ha 'Ihis handwrit1ng. :So y?u're'in contact w1th yet: pebple.and you tell_h1m you?re going .54' yOufrs not go1hg to hand out anyth1hg? A ?Mo, 31 r,.I wouidn? naccssarily agree w1:h mu, 15921111193 I goul? givaryou.a scghario, air, that wauld 1n?youx_1etter of J?na?thh 1 5- x: A3 MI'did abs that at 311';- 7170 t'uHM u. an: uwuz '1,10 il 1'1? :V1thar? was a test from February that where they found th1a,I "13 .,j5,i 16your latter of June you acknowledgad that rthare 1s a tent of recent production. you say 1t apeciftcally.5}1" A Jun& 14th. sir. Your Jana letter you acknowledge that there 13'77 'a recent product test. A bAlchough we have found no TODD ?on't ydu. sir? our produ?t Dohft you. sir? Yes, I see that. ?13 wh'xa p? :3 a You know that there 13 a racent test1,_you know that iyou' ve seen the Santophen tables yourself 31:. what: they - ifbund the parts per billion in the Santophgn A liwa?ra talking PCP. -Q- is'a ?tadicate 4? 13'a5pr3p3r1t?ry ?ham1?al11' I 'zo?Sancophen, is 1: act. 81:? Yaa, sir. And we're talking about yep was nothing;- ',but A guess 39. -You guess so? 'Lobk and sea, M1. ?bPh111193.V 311.. It? 3 prior to caust1c. yes.? .,13 wn7131 _-So yea say you re not 30133 to sand that latest out 1021" _22- 23- 2.4 but what_dq yquldo? You him a.lattar out talking about a sampling}d?na Ova: a yaar.ago; A That?s carract. Whan you have a racenc_8ampla that shows no the Why don'tyou refer him to the recent sample,'mr. MQPh1111ps? . A Ba?ause I felt that data was no: conciusivs. They wara 9:111 genarat1ng additional data, an? you just don' 'analyza on& sample and go off the cuff. 'Why would your A You' va go: to look 3: your gsnaral graduation, not a g1van 1? t. '1 Why would your data that' evar a year old on PCP be ?more reliable than yaur meta rec an: data? 81:. I. gages my position at cha time. and th1a 13 going back 31: years Wbuid you answer my question. 31:. I'm nat.ask1ng you . A 'I?m.?ry1ng air. if you?? 13: me fihish, asking you why you beli?va'thn: 7-31: -- 1 your data from a year bafbra July of '79 11 more ral1able than your data in '79? Ihat 3 what 1' m,ask1ng you, 1781!: 172 "1112_ . 11121 131 1.14 '15 161 1118 1 20" 21?; ?zifH: J'Ij24f? 4 aak1ng the questio feela that tho answar 13 net responsivu,g 52h. has a right to interrupc and draw tha w1tnass to a 1espons1vn 0 of the attorney. I bel1evn the w1tnass was trying to respond. The quast1on was {asked why he would bei1ava something as apposad 1o snatching . 1nterruptedi. H6 one could be sure whether ha 131 raspdn?ing? '101 not, and I bel1eve that he has got a right to 31pla1n h1s that he was interrupted and that he was trying to respond to _1he quastion. your Honor. and when H1.Carr incargup ts. 11' _and I object :0 11. Carr intarrupting and net 9211111113 ;w11ness ta finish his answer. 1' 173' I was tryIng to answer that, air, but you interrupted- me th1s :1me. I'm sorry. may I expla1n that? You can that qusstion THE COURI: Mr. McPh1111ps, if :ha attornay who' 8 MR, MUSGRAVE: W111, your Honor THE ccer- Just wait a second. - MR. MUSGBAVE: I thought you.were finished. THE COURT: _In the future just answer'the questions . . MR, HUSGRAVE Year Honar. may I new, yen: Honor 11-1 01 39. Ha got about ?11: words out of his mouth befbre counsaI _11 answer when ha' 3 aakad a question in that fashien, and 1 believa_' ?61 Court to dacide I believa, whathar he was baing respons1vu, ?.419' '2i 23 24 .the 1htertupt1on_whs proper. It was from::he.s:att ?fze??o?sivg t6?tha7Qu35tio?e- Your specific objection :6 . acE1oh'taken'by Mr. Carr is overrulad, Ybu may prbceed, Mr. -Cart;* I I. I . ;th?t your dnt? on;t ce?ta of a yaat bafqr? _over_a'yehr '1 m, a 1* Erma, what: mean the "situaticsn was. a mass in tart-1x895 trying -&oesn?t mean it goes in the hands ,mamo; - -: THE caukx: 5: dan't think hawasrasp0331ve. 1 think cauld sag if one is expafign?ed in than; matters it?s not - A the data I'll try to answer 1: 7?f 1ths," .j data in 1979 or 778 was anaiys1a that we had. 'The ?79 auca'Iu" 1 ?td put all this stuff t?gather.?and there war?_bits and pi??es'. taming Gut; a?d I was still awaiting some feedback from rasearch;l Grantad, a Jana 26th mama might be out,- LgaAn that'I gat 1: at 311, In fact, just because it's June ?van asking ion abaut that J"?l A . Sir 25a: 3030:. may the witness finish t6 answar'?r. Carr's Question, and I be11?v?. t? to finish without bai?g interruptad at this pdint;l_ ;174 bef?r? J?ly-of '79 is mbro raliabla than your data davalopod l-uuM It. nu?unu Ito? mummc. n.4, .uluiu if 1 - 13' h,i$ n} -'15 7 24,? Wmay ptOcoad. Cosmo of Juno 14th that you don' wa9t to reiy upon tho recent a Coamplc that says thorc' a no TCDD. - I, disregard that rcoont prodoct sample toot and so book to over ,Ia yoar before to us; that a the oXamp1e of and support to say '13 why didn' you use and ro1y upon the recent scmp1o- -chat you koew of bofore June 14th. '79, why didn' t.yoo roly upoo that. 'oir,.1notood of tolling him about a sample that's tastod to ?19737* I, rocali my thinking. J'Io1'd? goat and didn' toll tho 93091 that yon had more recont? f-tosts, you could be tacho ioa11y correct by tolling than thatJ theta-woo no TCDD in tho old wort than a year old toot. but? I'yon could act tell them that if you nocd a mo ro' recent 213:, _bccouso you knew at that time that youx more tocant to eta 1 I THE count: Objection is oatr.lyou? What asking, Mr. McPhillips, i? you can confine youtaolf to what asking, you havoI oaid 19 your mono. oatliot AIUmho. 4- 1n your product, but in yoorI July 79 memo you v.26 your customor thero' a no TODD in tho product.I Hy quostion C. 1? - Sir, I wish I could answer that. but I just don 'Lct mo holp you a littlo'bit.9 If you tofatrnd :55:hewf. ?showod Town? in one or two or throo of them, what-on: out too: -10 '12 . "2113 . .14 1'5. 16 117?_ U18 19' ;20 211' 23 .IIsd1d n?t show and f6: that reason. Hr. McPh1111ps you . ~1 dec1ded to ignora both the good and the bad results of 1979 15 -I7 '-'arder to ba techn1cally correct by referring only to tha 1978 71 rasu1Us, 1sn' that correct. Mr. McPhillips? 7A7 Ina, don 't 80. Er; McPhillipa -- A .I sUid.1 don?t and you?ru I ?putting speculat1ng, and I really don' recall my Uhink1ngI 71'process at the Uth. . . I MR. MUSGRAVE: May my may I onUeU to ebunsal?a 'Quast1on which 13 obv1ously a speech not intended to be a questionI. Uncausa aha w1tneas has said he doesn' reca11 his luthinking an? request thaU 1: Ua stricken and the jury instrucUa 1 U9 ?isregard adbjection~1s ovarr?led. It was a prepar- I'qnasU1UU. .- Let?s 1Uok a: she sscond paragraph of Exhibit 1555. '5.You U311 customs: there cUaU you dacided to analyze a11 the chlornphanals for TCDD using the most current methods and a 11Uquipment avaiiable.~ Now, of comrsa. UhaU?s true, yam did . Z?d?gida to do'chat, and_ycu hava that result 1n front UE you Uo1d Uhem that. ?Uut now'yau' Isay hara . we ?11 be developing tUUsa aaca ova: the hex: sevara1' any change from our previ?ua_?1ndinsa "3 1767 ?10 12 13_ :14. is? 1162 1717 207 le 2'2 241? ?w111 noe1?y you accordingly; don' you, _31r? syou' to going to 100k at 1: and 11 you find anything thac? a ":they' to go1ng to be not1f1?d when 1n fact you hove the data .:1n frant of you, you had in Juno of 1979, a 500& two vodka Vbofbro th1s latter was wr1tton, and you tell them that 1f ehoro "any.change. we 'xe-going to lot you khow, 131:.1no. I change from the pteviouo findings? -eaustio change and what havo you, sir, we found I don?t Alzhink we found any more PCP, and if we did.1t d1dn' present ifaay hazar? a: all. A That' a what I state. sir, yes, sir. So what you to doing 13 you' to tell1ng them that ,7 11 fforont, aVen if chore 13 any change from.tb provious ?1nd1ng. A. I-?id not h1Vo this data. sir. Q7 a W311,1et's' 5- A You said 1 and I did not. 31:. . -Lse 5 just soppose that data did percolato dowh soono 1t, 81:? A: mosuro- -4 wall. to Not nocos?arily to he;- .we11wouldn' know how to interprat all thia data, air. 1 ?D1d you go out and ask whether.or not chororwas any? If I?recall, almost all-our after the sp111pot 177 .77770 ?77y?? 13 333393'79. Two 10:8 has -373 7 - - ,Pmuu. 1.70,, amount; ?rorm IL 24.9. w?i d1366? 6 you $66 that. air? f,ii'V6 67 7?1437 9573367 {3318677 9333333?538tad from February 675 '79 666 15 966 ?166 TEDD 16 Your 36691686337' 3323397?tast$d may 27th of '79. 666:6 1s TCBD in your product, 166.: 7 77331'3.ther6. 61:7 7? 7 7 7 7,3655331 Hell I 6 no: ev6n 66k16g y6u 666666: or no: 1: *ijpresenced a hazard but you 616 find, 61:. th6t there 666 a 7 [change whom you 6666 up w1th'9 4 yau' r6 6611163 th13 man 666 1?73 :7 got TODD 16 it, doesn 31:7 The analys16 6 666 16:. y6s, 61: . H6. 6f 66:6 than 666 16:. W6 v6 6616663 6?78 find1ngs7 7 Sir. I would hav6 66 66k 6? r6666rch 960316 wh?6 :66 9:31?7 7; change. what the significanca 64% ;6 Wall HcPhillips --7 6=369: 3113 6f the data 16 . sir. Hr. McPhillips, 1f y6u ?166 TCDD 16 your samples 7 35; T66 way You phras6 12,- 398. 313'77367 77773373 And that 16 6 change ?666 y6ur 1973 f1nd16gs, 666:6 >799? 36 there was 6 666689: 3333 3 33333' 313' ?1'33 y33? 672 -. back 16 ?78 66? v6 36: nothing. but w6? r6 36166 :6 check and 1f7337jf {jfwa ?166 any change these 6r6viaus findings. 66' :6 36163 t673~3'3 ?777t611 y6u._ A66 FOB 61d find 6 666636 16 year '79 h? 77:7 :3 '10' f11' . f551 I . 3' 11191;, 1 ?fjf?4if I aai? in July, aftar July thay were nevar a customer cf ours. NM ?_thhera was no TCDD 1n aha product. isn air? A7 At the 31mg, yas',_ sir.gN1N you did not notify the customar cf that change. . chd1dIyou._s1r, of than finding. did you; 31:? N1 don recall no, sir. I don think they were a Lcustom?t of ours after. 91:, because. as I said before. Tennessae Eastman was no: a customer and Givaudan Nanzad a higher assay fproduct and I don think Ne evnr supplied them aga1n, sir. I ..Q. MI. McPhillips. they returned product a to you becausc, I they Nara unacceptable. I have a mama written to Cat: from theI NN Givaudan Corporation in Nh1ch thsy refarrad to Purchasc Order 22983 and they send baCk unacceptable drums to you.i Yas, 31r.5 MR MUSGRAVE The: 36: Tanneasea Eastman, 1,3'1 .3- I No, the exh1b1t I hava g1Nnn hiN d??s not rafNr to Teanessae Eastman. It refers cc . '5 You see that letter. sir? Istivaudan You See that l?tter. sir? 31:1 33? it.I-N I - KThay Nara a customar of yours Neran? they? c? .23 >1 .-AIIL I said aftar,.1n may they Nara not a customer 0? oNra .IN hymn: :L?muuaku?ea .rm. forum: runnj 16-140"; 16611166,:- [?666676612616 61*11;116I1thay 666' 6666 to 696 samething at expose 66616 amployeos 66 51.666661 you think 6h6t might possibly be the raason thay asked you the7'16 IIT16156-6 - ..11 .- - - - -666I6616 but 16' 3 a potential yes.I? I II I ?'666616166661696 And they hav6 tha material on hand that y66 991d them. '1'761??666soma af?which may be the batches than 6666 created in February ?79 that has 230 par6s 966 b11116n 6f TCDD in it, that JEAIg?fifipoasibla. 156.6 16. air? I 613Q16 they 1636a A That a M6y 166666., I 361d July. - 1'526 Oh, I 866. S6 you were technically correct in that as of July they Were not a customsr. is the; right, 516? In fact. 1: was b66066 that. s1I-5 -LII6A Jn fact, 1f I racalL 16 was even befbre ?IImatarial was quite old when th?y sant 16 back to us. L6: 66 propose something to y6u. M6. McPhillips.Ig II . Sir.- pranounce their 6666 was inquiring About dioxins because .expasa thair customars to something th?t? got TODD in 167.36 Squestion? 65 that 16*666 there 1.: an 3696636166 of -f 7 Q1 Could you answat that question sir._ "6 Do you think it po6s1b16 that Givaudan 66 however I can '6 speculate of why thsy asked the quastion. s16,6,'6'6 312 ruum '15 ?115 1. 17 '18 39:.7 ~20? '211fl 3?gsg.gqegz Mg. ?nsgrave, if he wants that.13t33r 1n 3vidanca. 23 . that 13 333 :?13v3nt 33 ICED question, 333 charafbre. I A A, I 303': R303. 31:. It' posSibla. I gu3sa 1 3_ It 13 13333 poss 1b13,- an3 1 is also poss1b13 th?t 11 there is TCDD 1n th product, that th3y w3313 3333 1: back to you 33 being unaccaptabla, that possib13. 1sn't sir? A- The reasOn they sent th?t material .1 mei.v could you 33333: that question, sir.? IAM ?Th?t could be possible, 512.: 3 bYaa. . A ?Thg w3y you asked the qu?ation. If th3y sent 1: back to you bacause 1t' 3 got TODD 13 13,13 wnuld not than be eXposed to their workers, would sir? I 1 The way yen spaculat3, sir. that a right. And 1: 33u13 not than be incorporatc? in their products, th31r heap ital 3is1nfectan: and would 33: Eben be or_what3v3r :hay' :3 using 1: for 333 30313.30: than.b3 3333833 ?to their custbmers. isn't it. 31:? MAI That? a 3 sc?n3rio. air. to which you can draw that .conclusion but you 313 not put that 13::3: in 3v133nca. 333 1th3: l?ttar 1 3 ask1ng about assays. Q. Mr. McPhillips, do you understand the way that th1s h3 can put 1: in. H3 talks about 1mpurit_1es 13 other 13:3 131 . I10 'n 12 13 14 16 '-17 ,,143hold 111m 111 contampb' a: going to ham Jurytakim - inc: asking you about that. If ha_th1nks 1:75 can? bring it up._ Ha'a go: a copy of 1:75 Open. "1you don?: gsed to make the case, If he thin it's'impoxtanti ?Er.?McPE1111ps. as to whethar of not isn't it a'fagtIthE: 1f; . they Eon': age the that has it; that their customs? won 't be expand to 11:? A If the obviously if Ithey turnod_1: back. they' :0 ?.not expossd to nothing. but than was not :ha reason they turned 1: back sir. I Mr. McPEillips. no: asking you that.: They didn't ?know that 1: was In there. so obViously :hdy coul? not hava "turaad it back far that reason.' You didn't it was in there. Eow ean they turn it ba.ck 1? yen Eon' tell iEsir? They asEad you specifically about it And you didn' a tell them. Haw can thay turn it back. 31:7 A Sir, you don?t havn to yell at 33,. You.k?ow, I'm ..- .iight Eata.? RapErasE the questign. 'Youiru a 111t1a too loudy: *say again, sir. I TEE COURE: Gentlemen, approach ch. bench ?or a minuc?._ (TEE following procee?iags ware had a: the bench but I- 1of :ha EgarIng of tha jury. 723'27 I TEE COURE: ve had 1: with :h1s guy. and m.I501ng .182? Ito.bt1nqu ha'll bring it up. I'm asking youInowlspoe1f1callygI- r'uRm IL 24 8 that we hot recass for that gurpbsa; bacause I 4~ IE 111' _13' 15 ?.11 1: 171 1,115 1-201 1 {21 . '23_v =abayagce. Chow. we?re dona f6: aha day.~and wa'ra going to do it'nbw. MUSGRAVE: What. for. air? HI. Carr y3111ng hE'gtih1m_t3111ng him not to yell at hnm? THE COURT: ?Ho. He has bean so inaolent. and he has ?",7v1oiazad Everything 1 v1 1?11 E1m to do. I-Eave-Ead 1: with, ruthe games that :hase witnEEBes CARR: You: Hancr. let me suggest hate that H13 I been-cc tha Cantu. it?s been,co.m31 and m. . wiiling at this pdint to put up with it. and I Wauld'ask the would like to Eat through witthh witn?as and.n02 to hgvm'l anothar pathway.that-wou1d go down.that would take u? 6hr time, Hand I would ask that the Gear: ho1d that in abayance and 313 if is any more lik? it instaad of at this tima THE COURT: Okay. A: year IEquast 1'11 ha1d it in HUSGRAVE: Could I EavE a moment 1E talk with the itness in View cf the Court's THE COURT: After court yOu may. (The folIowing proceedings wEre had in the hearing ,and 0? the jury. 1H1, Hc?hillips. ybu never-notified the customEr chethwaa,TCDD'in the prdduct. did you. air? '14 11?, I 183* PENGAD BFVONNE. N.J. 07002 IL 243 10 1 12 .13 ?514 . 1522* _And therefore, they could not use-that as a reason to could uhgy. sir? A sir? 1 us earlier; Mr. Mcrhillips;lth3t-thg knew.1f they agk if there_was TCDD in th51Pr0duet. -90 you rechll that -- A 91:. .1Q . 5* t?lling us that earlier? A 'Ygs,gs1r. ?1 I ?ow hei?i1e a customer that asked he's saying. hb'a ~maet1ng your def1n1t10n of his rights, not mine and not anybody ;eisa' s. but your de?1n1tion. but you didn' :311 him about tha TODD 1n the graduet. 11d you. sir? .30: after Ju1y. sir, no, 31:. And not before July eithar. 6 16 yau, air? A- $0,31r. I _,Sa 1: 13 ant1rely possible that he has part of that 654 that he' a working with at that vary time that he' ask1ng you the quastion, isn' that possibla? HUSGRAVE: Object :9 the sysculat1on. . 371f that batch was manufactured in Fabruary cf ?79? COURT: Objecsion is QVArrulad. guass 1t' s.?0951b1g, sir; yas, .Q . 89 new hare's a mAn or a_ccmpany that?s coneain?d - ?31 . lleil i3 14 '151 '616:- 17 - my 1?61 20 .?217 -:246 16 16 and 66' 6 6666163 to know ?it?at pr1or to July 1266 letter. 166: no ICDD 16 your parachlorophanol? the paople. s1: . 6111I669mthatlthere 1s a 1666: batch of pgrachlorophanol[6hac,' 6'63 6 watts: of ?666. D1reot your 666666106 :6 Batch No. 662 1.66: 66666666 16 that although 666:6 1s tr1ohlorod1benzo d1oxin. theta 13 not 66:66:66 at tetra; do You 666 6666. 61:2 662 1a 2i Iparachlorophanol I 'v'?161ahed product or not. 31:. I 666? 6 6666. I: say; 666. 666656 about PCP as to ask you 66666;: or not there? 3 66y ICED .f 8666. _'vau know that 666:6 16 - Not wh?6 I wrote 6666 16666:. a: :5 i3? 'Oh, now you have I state? June 26th, 1979 I 616 606 necessarily say W6ll, what rapott d1.d you havo 1661666163 that 666:: A . 81:, 1: probably was votbal from. -- to J06 66666166 and W1lson. I I Wall Al I don.' 6 got raw data liko 6666. I 9:166r1ly roly on Qf MhPh1ll1ps. 1f you would look 66 666 6666. yo6 2 66666 not_havaldotoatahla lovnls of 1609 16 16, two later bg?chgs.' A Patachlorophonol out. I 666' 6 knon1f 6666? 666 1:85} FORM VIL 2?8 PSNGAD VC0.. BAVONNE. NJ. (1)002 .15' 1633:? 1' tabla 13V313 of y33.seo that. 31:? I 13 has d?tocgab13 13v. In of TCDD. 21 parts 33: b111103. doesn' 3 13V, sir? ?the only avidancs 1n the cast. '1'1si.' I 633' know. D311. y33.333 that 333 that. . A38 1f you 130k down at PCP at Ho. 671 ynu sag :hhre' 3' I.[3333h3r chlorophcnol that 13. parachlorophanol without dacea-?V 133. s1r. Q, If y33 130k 6393 at M367A that' a para rich cut. 1 A It? a r1gh3 at the 333333103 11313. 31:, I think. VIQ 21 parts per b1111on 1s twice detcct1on 113133 - 3 HR. HIQGRAPR: 933333 33 re?txenca 33 that 13 th1s_1 3-33 33163333 that 93:3 3133 33: 13 a pieduct. A I 3033!: :035333133 13'3v33331 od.' Thor3 is 3v163nce :3 the c3ntrary 13 IKE COUPE 033333103 13 ovarruled. IQ And you.look at PCP 708 M3708. anothnr batch that 33383' 3 30: 3333333313 levals of TCDD 13 13; you see that. sirsays none d3t3ctab1e. What 13 N33.1what y33 333 333:3 13 1f you 13333 333 333 P6P . 1.3361.? FORM II. NGAD C0.. BAYONNE. NJ. 07002 VI17V 18 . 20? 21_ 22? 23.? a: :11, you 838 th baccth w1thout lavul a. IWilsWn cold ypu about that 19 .--I that caused yen: Juna 14th V3 mama 1555,15 that correct. W1r? --?hora ha? his pos1tiWu came fmam WW3 tha PCP. I weal 'that data. sir. I wenld not know.- data, yea. _sth1 yWu Wot.191r? de,'c you, 81:2 A YWW. 31:. I Row presumably I on: or Wf :thW batches F. -A S1r, I don' know. I dpn' know what his pos1t1on not know the details he told WW an analysis sample had no TCDD sample. to wh1ch I rWaponde. IWhWre'hW?go: WW11. ha had the 1n?orma=1?n on the aar11Wr 5- did WW not, abWut F?btuary of ?792 FWbruarj? I would imagi?a hW Would hava betuary of Wr.McPh1111ps.1f ha had you should have it. On a technicai papa: lika this? Q- WW, WW: 1n technical papWr. anyway. howavur you go:" you: informat1onerbably was told it vatbally. yes. sir. But you yen: customWr yWu d1dn?t havW that you cal,l' a cut. that 13, 652 and.wW won 't 30 :hangh that hW? in charge 9f that hus1nesa, WW had that 1W?Wrmae1WW Warlicr, 137. '10' .11_ .12 13 15 '16 17 '18 19' '2'10 '22 231;_ '24: axarc1s1ng the only r1ght that you ?11 31v: h1m, that 13, :haA 31data or any data. Iianother letter? ,3 customnr. I ttn11y don't rec311. ,you recogniza that a1ong with :b1s blawup as a wr1tten identification A Qvar a year ago. yes. 91:. And you you had Mr. McPh1111ps. this customnr, r1ght to ask. asks the quest1on, and you don' a 3011 51m;, do you A -s_1r; a: the 11m; I wrote t?n Ju1y 12th mama I-m13hih net havn been.awaro, I probably was not ?wars oi tha Juno 26:h*1 7 What: you beam: Awake of did you infer- u?nd? um 17A, 51:, 1 don knew 11 I would ever bacomn aware 01 11. 91d yau.cver send amoeba: letter? A No, air, 1 said aftax' that :1ma_ha-was (Plaiut1ffs? Exb1b1: 1557 was markod for idantificaaic Hand1ng you rIainziffa' Exh1b1: 1557the TcnneaSQB Eastman Cbmpany? 1A1 Yes. 81:. 113131. mu) (A: 7:121: um. Pla1nt1ffs Exhibit 1557A was mrkad for- MA. an: Offer menu: these exhibits. DURM IL 245 10- .12 13? ,15 '16 217-- 18 '559 1 50: 121' . 22 4'23. '24 A m, mauvs: This is 15522 113.653: .1 1557s 1: 5 Mom of. 1557.13 1: not? 5 A. Y55. 51:. 15. 555551125; 1'11 object 5-- '55; cm: Offer 1557 and 15.571 1am 51:16:50.5. 581. W5 would abju ct an the 5555 55515 55? 5 55 objecttd to 1556 your Honor. THE COYIT 5555 r511ng. It's admitted oVur 05355510 (Exh1bit p5555d :5 :55 Jury. 555. Er. M5?h1111po. this 15 5 letter vary 51555 to tha.1auguage 555d 15 :55 Exh1b1c 1555. 155' that right, 51:? A Yin. 31:. This 5155 though. ha has read in the 05551551 W5ek -_th5t :55 material that spilled in Scurg5on had TCDD in 1: apparantly. 15 that ?5rract, 5152 A H5 r5f5rr5d ?5 :55 M5y 23:5 artic15. yas. sir. Qf And 555: 13 the article that 555515556 that 555:5 was 15 :55 chemical that sp1llud at Scurgaon; do you ?55511 'Lthat. 51r2 A1 I danfc recall exactly what 1: 5515. 51:. W511, this p5rson 15.55y 5v5n: wants to knew. that 5555s 5555 5515k 15 chute possibly TODD in year parachlor5phenol 55555553, 51:? ?189 ?norms. (Hum 49ch IL117 18' 12720: i :21 122' '.24 1A. Yhs, air. A . And you.ta11 h1u.aga1n ch. data shows no TODD at work 1' that Was dang ova: a year agoY. I A s1r.' . . But youvdbn?t-mudh-th? air-2 I A A .A Nb;'31ri AAy*chet- -- far as I k3qw; Mt. MhPh1111p? 1'11 represent tn you that abuse arc the on1y 1atters that ware givan to us in that would hear a data 61 ?79. WA havu sows 1981 Iottaro writcdn to D1amond Shamrock. . and they' re gett1ng ready to go into Canada w1nh 2 4 d1ch10ro- I phano1. but 1a '79 thasa two 1oteors, so as I am.present1y_- . aware, the nnly two letters sun: to austomart of Honsan?o - irelat1ng tQ the chlarinated Aheno1s.. De you hgvu ankanow1?dg?: ?of any othar letters, Mr. McPh1llipsY I A LattetsY Yes, 1&6. :1r.1 Qf -Do you have any knowledge of any ammo: relating .celephnna conversations? ~11 A. Abuse. no, air. ?h11.yeah. there?s a memo 1A terms of a conwarsat1on, I think w1th regArd to FallekuLancro. -- -- Am?! churn that: memo? 1.3oK 3333 8313331931 33?d33 K33 ?3333301 K33 '3333 K33 3A3q 33K.li 5:1, 33 31 33133333 K3 'K31nbu1 33 anoqe 0333 3 3,3331 ?3 - 33330 K33 113333 3 333 1 3333 3333 33330 333 1.13333333333'03 33 vasn 333 go 3313 3333 331313531 3333 331333 333g 933 33333333 3333033 3333 30133303.3 3,3331 1 b" I vasn an 333333; PvaIva 1? xaIIva p?IIva 93 3333933 313 in 3233 noun 3 no? I 'xIe ?333: p13 33 3333 ?303 'K31nbu1 333 anoqu w1r I tannqa 33Kgptag *3 avg; bi I?;uo1333333303 3 113333 1 333 ?333 31 nun 3333 3 303 1 1319 .Ib -5 333 31 033 3333 3. nap I 'vusn I w; anoqv 13333 3333 pauo1auam 1 3333 0333 333 119303 . 3'3333 _3313 333 I 3013333319 33 33133333A303 - v' is- ~3?uIva?oo stanqu 33333130133 anox 3333 .-qu1 p33133303 3333033 330K 333 31: 63 03.. I 3333 1313 3oK 3 303 03 I-3361333ub 3333 3313333.31 331133 3333 30311ag31r 8311133 pnnI'I nostIm,mIr 03 331313: 1.33339: I Put 'vusn 033 par 533 313013 333Q3 2313133 3333.K333 933 333333 3303 033331-3311333 zzg.i . I II 30?[11 8111 It I 21' 01_. Mid A an in mm mom I'm Nul? 01002- FORM IL 243 PLNUAD '13 . 14" 17 618 19. ,1:20' 11? 22' -, 23- -24. I 616116 61 26.. MUSGRAVE: Is thin. 161979, I mm mm In I 666?: 166611 66 to 16V318 and 6va1yzh1hg 6166 of I >diox1nfth6'wuy'y66 stated that. but I don't 166611 66y.6ther 71 1611616 36163 to 666166613. 611. I I I run,. You: 36661, :h1s 16 6 666v66 16nt p1666 f61-_' 6 us 66 6169.I com: All right. Ladiea ma mum. .wo"11 . ?break 161 aha 66y at-this po1ntl1n'61661 W6 w111?1666mn163616 116661161'661616361 6166 6'6166kIg I 66616 166166 you. as I do Ifbr any 6vn1n1gh: b166ks that you' 16 not to 1666,116166 Cer'watch 66ything abqut 6616 6666 16 9611166161 61 66b166: 1661161 16 3666161 16 66y 6? 6h6 66616. 6116: 61 6166116616. want :6 thank y6u.?61 your 611661166 666 66696161166. c6611 116 adjeuxned. 666116666 66616 I 666 you a: the ban6h ?61 6 616616 916 666. (Ih6 f6116w1ng 191666661656 6616 had 16 chambe1a .16116616g th6 116613361 of 1h6 Ju1y. ICE COURI: I 66616 note that I h6v6 at this 1166 31166 66 C1661, c6py 6f an Qrdar :6 611 6666661 1611661163 ?thau 6616613 66 16666616 1666666166 616 to ba 61666666 666 _what 616 66:. and 1616. I baliavu. 666616166 611 16666616 fdoeumants 51666 :6 66 ?61 1666661166. and I 666' havh 6 I . 19.23 n' '12 13 l4 15 .16' '117 12 '13 1 1119 20g 5 21.. '22? 2% 1 '=24 IapIc1?1c count. but just note thI general amount of documents, 1' I would think that 44- I havI ordered :53: 1: ho done And I -onderseand that 1: could roasonIny bI dog. by Ind 0? I homozrowu1 ThIre two 61soovIry mot1onI and one to shortan 'I-t1mI . and I they' rI 81 1 yours. MR. CARR: BuforI wI 39 ?9 ehIt I to know '11' Iwhen WI 'ra go1ng to gIe thI Af?1dav1ts of Compliancg thI: erI': I'duI framKMIhonIy and from He1noman, I do not wInc to I 'rIs: unt11 VI gIt tho?a A??1de1ts of . THE CDURI: Assum1ng that :hcaI arc?produced :hI Ind. of busInIss tomorrow. when can you Icha, A111d3v1ts? HR. RASSIF: Hill your annex, gas, I'd I Ike to talk to Mr. about that but I know ,4 I think?wa could 3.: 1e 15 you just 4- without =a1k1n3 :9 ham.1?71 could. :-Iore of praparatory on my tImIrks. reasonably soon thereafter. you: Honor.. 11s a: this pain: in :1me2 MR. MASSIF mean 44" IKE cannr- Thay to both 1n Lo "rnaaon.1c can bI I ?ay. MR.. I want to rest no Iatar than_WIansday, fiInd.I don? t?wnn: to tan: unciI 1-41 THE COURI: you don' know reasonably soon: $193 um: 90.. 9100'_15 '16 17 18 ?19- oo 1' 21 2?3 24 Affide?t. and I th1n1: I know the statue of the Hahnney Af?dav: Produced Tuesday. 111' a now Monday afternoon. I 1:111:11: 11odnosday not a not an mreaaonable time. in: chaos Affidavits to - be presented. you A stem-us- 11. "be on tune to have. those presented in toms of .- what has been 1nd1oa?tod to me as to the statue of documents ?gment-.0. we have no objections to their inotiona. {um MR. RASSIF: I don? know the statue 61' Bottom IRE COURI: I 1:111:11: due ordethg that this be HR.NASSIF: Okay. We may hove 1t. tan-you? tomorrow? But I think Redheaday a: hot diagrams with I THE COURT: Okay. 6011M: I undoroteod the situation. in expressing my op1n1oe that Wednesday around noon or one o?clock would not what has been Indioetod to. me as to the statue of production. for ineamora inspection and at the time tebIo for produo?on def Erase matters! which I have ordered produced an augge'stmg .7 that that?s 3. reasonable t1me. MR. CARR: Your Honor-.111 regezdto bothmo?dns 0f. IRE Com; ley. What Shout the 1191-1141:: to Shorten 1m. mason: I'm 5m without hnomodgo of who: their 1191 Lt. 20"" 21' 22. 23 ,2?45 Rh: Radical Racords -. .you'want documanca I-rf RR may no: be abla to comply within": Our pa?p1a to gather the mataxial. so I-eRpeRtIRn -_Rhat I can. '75! $063.14?- "go-R?ltheir7doctots and get tha records? HR hava no objection to that. MR. HUSGRAHR: Rex. with ragard R0 the MRRIRR to HR, CARR: ?Rc doR' havu any medical records. I but I havR axpactations than wu will comply. 24R. MUSCRAVE: Okay. RR. and if I don' we arcady mi last to comply, and IE I daR? t. It's? 9.11; I?m aging th? h?sc? RR. WIS-GRAVE: I _md?rstand. . A SBIGFREID: wan; for mm?, if .4. HR Rush: RR b9 able to get this sRuff just. But you' re gains to have your people CARR: RoursR Rot. HR. MUSGRAVE: 6h; you're Rot? MR. CARR: Of RoursR not. I MR Then you' re onIy geing to get records that Rhay might perchance hava? RR. That RhRy havu a copy 195 sovan days on that because wa. havn to contact all oE our pcop Pinup-con N.J. -rorm 22' 1:23 . -24f, or not.ghora are new doctora.' You 11 hava 311 the information__1 was required to get: thes?. records ?rou Suakiud. i used those authdrizarions to so: records. 'give us morn authorizations. MR. MUSGRAVE: W911. I rh1nk that wo would request . that this mot1on include that rhoy be roqu1red to go and obta1n rheso rooOrds which are within rho1r concro1 s1nco thoy are rho1r dootors that rhoy' vn soon 1n tho same fashion that Monsanto KR. CARR: Your Honor. that' a completely difforent connection botwo?n our doctors_and18uak1nd. Ho'-va already givsnx- them evoryihing that thoy heed to g?z?tho records;?nnd1rh?& havT Ch, you'va g1von rham.a11 authorisations? MR. Your Honor. thoy have all the author1zar1ona 5 they need. WE ro not about to go out and produoo these records- for them. Thay have all the authorizations thoy neea. - THE COURT: You' v3 go: ERR author1zarions.j HR. If you*want more authorizations, why, just THE COURT: If you'v3.got tho anthor11gt1ons. yoRR don't .negd"a motion. I MR. HUSGRAVE: 'Aro that: any other ?oorors_theyfvs_ soon re not aware of though, now doctors? MR. CARR: I have no way of knowing, Counsel.11?m Rot about-to inquire of them, but onoa wa gar tha' bills from thou, anything 1n their pOsaossion. 1r V111 suroly show whothor. "19.6 a - a- 13/ Ia FORM ll. 2? El wane?) 420., shows. 07002 10E 12A alrca?y answared it. -so.qa h3vafzh??jt AghatJoux?pebple_hava. MUSGRAVE: 9611. you will giva us naw author1~I_gEE 1 MR. CARR: Any timh yOu want to . give them.:o you. HR. EUSGRAVE: And all racards that they hav? of'AAyli ':,k1nd:wbuId you'be well. an Interrogatory on thu new doctors than. ?9'11 do it in that fashion, I suspect. :33 If You've get authazjizazians Well, we may not havn for n39 docco:$ I thay?va seam. THE I un?erszand what but? talking Abba: the old one: as far as uydates are concerned I didn' know, I had forgottan that you ha? authorizatians or II was nevur told the:.' RR. EURGRAVE: wall. 'and.many times doctors. as the Court knows. will not honor authorizations that are too old. so in View of Carr' 3 E?f MR. Any.cime yau.?ve sant us an .autHOtiaatioh j'v as havn axeeutad It. If you want more; just send It in. -THE CGURI: Fina.? Good. CARR: And insofar as the Answers to InterrOgator .Mbt1on to-Produ?c outstanding and we?ll cemply just as 3a0n as ?"wu'can; THE COURT: Fine. grant. Anything 013a since we're' Iiback hare? CARR: Not-Eran us; Judge; THE 6082?: .Vhry good? Okay. See you tomorroww naming .. 1 . 198