1 1 2 3 _______________________________________________________ 4 5 EMINENT DOMAIN PROCEDURE LAW (EDPL) 6 7 PUBLIC HEARING FOR THE 8 9 10 CDTA UNCLE SAM TRANSIT CENTER ________________________________________________________ 11 12 13 Date: November 16, 2017 Time: 6:00 p.m. Location: City of Troy City Hall Troy, New York 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 JEANNE O'CONNELL, RPR (518) 491-7292 2 1 MS. KIRCHER: I would like to formally 2 open this public hearing for Capital District 3 Transportation Authority Uncle Sam Transit Center 4 project located in the City of Troy, Rensselaer 5 County, New York. 6 hearing is to meet the legal requirements of 7 Article 2 of the Eminent Domain Procedure Law. 8 9 The purpose of this public A notice of the public hearing was published in the Troy Record on October 31st 10 through November 4th, 2017. 11 of Public Hearing was sent to the assessment 12 record billing owners potentially impacted by the 13 proposed public project. 14 public notice to the stenographer to be included 15 as part of the hearing's official record. 16 A copy of the Notice I will now give the As stated in the notice, there are 17 several purposes of tonight's hearing: 18 provide information on the proposed project 19 background and evolution; two, explain and 20 describe the public use, benefits and purpose to 21 be served by the proposed transit project; three, 22 describe the location or geographic parameters of 23 the proposed project and explain the reasons for JEANNE O'CONNELL, RPR One, (518) 491-7292 3 1 the selection of the location; four, the 2 alternatives considered for the project and major 3 design features; five, identify the property 4 interests CDTA will need to acquire in order to 5 accomplish this project, including the procedures 6 for acquisition; and six, accept and consider 7 public comments on the proposed project. 8 9 The oral statements made during tonight's session will be stenographically recorded. 10 Additionally, various documents have been made 11 available for public inspection. 12 have been premarked as exhibits and will be 13 incorporated into the record for this hearing. 14 Those documents Following tonight's session, members of 15 the public are invited to submit written comments 16 or other documents relating to the proposed 17 project. 18 should be addressed to Douglas Teator at Creighton 19 Manning Engineering. 20 documents will be included as part of the record. 21 These written comments and documents These written comments and As soon as possible after tonight's 22 session, copies of the transcript of this hearing 23 and the hearing exhibits will be made available to JEANNE O'CONNELL, RPR (518) 491-7292 4 1 the public for examination without cost during 2 normal business hours at the Capital District 3 Transportation Authority office, 110 Watervliet 4 Avenue, Albany, and at the Rensselaer County 5 Clerk's office, 105 Third Street, Troy, New York. 6 Any person who would like to examine these records 7 should contact Douglas Teator at 518-446-0396, 8 dteator@mellp.com. 9 At some point within 90 days after the 10 record of this hearing is complete, the entire 11 record will be delivered to the CDTA Board of 12 Directors for consideration and further action. 13 That further action will occur in the form of CDTA 14 Board of Directors rendering its Determination and 15 Findings concerning this proposed public project. 16 A brief synopsis of the Determination and 17 Findings will be published in the appropriate 18 newspaper and mailed to assessment record billing 19 owners. 20 There are several exhibits that are going 21 to be incorporated into the record of this 22 proceeding. 23 the record in the transcript will be made The exhibits that are made a part of JEANNE O'CONNELL, RPR (518) 491-7292 5 1 2 available for public review. In addition to the exhibits that have 3 been premarked and entered into the hearing record 4 this evening, all written public comment 5 submissions will be entered into the record as 6 Exhibit 6, collectively. 7 The notice of tonight's public hearing 8 was published in the Troy Record, and that notice 9 and the affidavit of publication have been 10 11 premarked as Exhibits 1 and 2. In addition to publishing the notice of 12 this hearing in the newspaper, Capital District 13 Transportation Authority mailed notices to each of 14 the assessment record billing owners. 15 notice, along with copies of certified mailing and 16 return receipt document, have been collectively 17 premarked as Exhibit 3. 18 The letter Also available tonight for public 19 inspection is a copy of the Alternatives Analysis 20 prepared by the engineering firm retained by CDTA 21 to design and oversee this project. 22 many of the technical details relating to the 23 project, including the scope and evolution, JEANNE O'CONNELL, RPR It includes (518) 491-7292 6 1 alternatives, environmental, and social matters 2 that were considered. 3 premarked as Exhibit 4. 4 The document has been A power point presentation has been 5 prepared for tonight's public hearing. The 6 presentation contains technical information on the 7 project. 8 presentation have been collectively premarked as 9 Exhibit 5. Copies of the slides from the At this time, I would request that all 10 premarked exhibits be admitted into the record of 11 these proceedings. 12 The preferred design alternative for the 13 project involves the acquisition of private 14 property. 15 process to acquire the property rights necessary 16 for construction of the project. 17 portion of the hearing will include an explanation 18 of the property acquisition process. 19 CDTA is required to follow a specific The technical At the conclusion of the technical 20 presentation, we will open the floor for public 21 comments. 22 there was a sign-in sheet. 23 we asked you to indicate whether or not you wished As you entered the room this evening, JEANNE O'CONNELL, RPR On the sign-in sheet (518) 491-7292 7 1 to provide oral comment. 2 written comments and documents related to this 3 project. 4 the table if you wish to speak. 5 6 CDTA will also accept Please fill out a registration card on I would now like to turn it over to Doug Teator to present the design portion. 7 MR. TEATOR: 8 Project evolution. 9 Thanks, Kelley. This project actually started, Uncle Sam Transit Center project, 10 actually started as part of the larger bus rapid 11 transit corridor project that CDTA started 12 studying in the winter of 2015. 13 Subsequently, the project was given a 14 determination of Cat Ex D II in the spring of 15 2015. 16 owners shortly thereafter in the summer of 2015, 17 which is actually continuing on to this day. 18 NEPA determination was made for the overall 19 project in the spring of 2016, which was a Cat Ex 20 D category of exclusion. We began coordination with the property 21 We commenced detailed design efforts 22 starting in 2016 after those initial property 23 owner meetings. That is continuing until the JEANNE O'CONNELL, RPR (518) 491-7292 A 8 1 present day. 2 City of Troy here for zoning, planning, in the 3 city council chambers in January, February of 4 2017, about a year ago. 5 And we held public meetings with the The purpose of the project, the transit 6 center project, is to construct a facility, 7 transit center facility, in downtown Troy to 8 continue serving the needs of the current riders 9 with CDTA, while expanding bus services, such as 10 frequency and destination options, from this 11 location. 12 The need is identified as basically 13 providing basic facility needs, size based on 14 current, and also projected ridership levels. 15 Improving the customer experience by providing an 16 environment that's convenient and comfortable to 17 wait at. 18 as a transportation alternative as the projected 19 ridership increases at this location. 20 Encouraging people to consider transit Also accommodate the future bus rapid 21 transit implementation at this site. 22 additionally, reduce reliance on automobiles and 23 promote other modes of travel, which is the JEANNE O'CONNELL, RPR And (518) 491-7292 9 1 primary function of transit. 2 The existing conditions. The present day 3 stop at the site is actually two bus areas, bus 4 stop areas. 5 riders per day counted in 2015. 6 square feet of covered waiting area. 7 the two bus shelter stops. 8 station southbound on Third or River Street and 9 northbound, there's two bus shelters at Fourth 10 There's a little over a thousand There is 600 Those are There's a large bus Street and Fulton. 11 As I mentioned, there's two separate bus 12 stops. 13 serving this location. 14 next to city park and riverfront. 15 At any one time, eight buses could be A lot of the buses layover So, currently there is a lack of space 16 for both boarding and pedestrian functions, 17 especially for the northbound stop, where some 18 patrons block the sidewalk, so it creates a 19 physical constraint for pedestrians not riding the 20 bus. 21 Also, the thousand boardings is a pretty 22 large site for CDTA. So, there's also no public 23 facilities, like customer service functions or JEANNE O'CONNELL, RPR (518) 491-7292 10 1 bathroom facilities, for those customers. 2 This graph shows why this site has been 3 selected. Bus service is existing in a pretty 4 significant quantity here. 5 different route. 6 northbound and southbound. 7 Fourth Street here and southbound being on Third 8 Street, which converges at stops from the 9 northeast to this point, accessing one-way Each color is a We have split streets in Troy, Northbound being on 10 roadway, south, east and west. 11 Third and Fourth Streets. 12 Converging on One of the functions of this facility is 13 to promote transfer activity and keep that 14 transfer activity within climate controlled 15 environments, so you can see how the convergence 16 of routes promotes the functions of a transit 17 center at this site. 18 That convergent hot spot is right in this 19 area where the existing bus stations are. 20 that's why we're looking at this site, because of 21 all the existing usage and convergence of those 22 routes, transferring from one colored route to the 23 other colored route. JEANNE O'CONNELL, RPR (518) 491-7292 So, 11 1 So, the proposed facility, we obviously 2 are proposing to construct the transit center 3 building. 4 study that was put together, is at least 1,000 5 square feet of enclosed and climate controlled 6 waiting space. 7 barely 600 square feet of that available and it's 8 not climate controlled. 9 Our minimum requirements, based on the As I mentioned earlier, there's Covered waiting areas. There are 10 currently only enclosed waiting areas. There is 11 also adding covered waiting areas over the 12 sidewalk for patrons waiting outside, possibly the 13 summer or other seasons where they don't want to 14 wait inside. 15 ticket agent. Providing one ticket area for a 16 Two ADA compliant restrooms. That drives 17 the site of the interior space to meet the ADA 18 requirements. 19 functions. 20 facility, so CDTA needs the space to have 21 janitor's closet, gas service, water service, and 22 the like. 23 areas to serve waiting and layover buses. Space for utility and janitorial Again, this is a CDTA proposed Sufficient number of berths and parking JEANNE O'CONNELL, RPR (518) 491-7292 12 1 As I mentioned, eight buses serving that 2 site earlier. 3 project is there's need for both on street berths 4 to pick up and drop off riders, as well as layover 5 spaces to serve buses that are at the end of their 6 route that are waiting to start again. 7 One critical component of this So, the transit center building itself, 8 the interior, there's waiting space, restrooms, 9 space for CDTA staff. It's all consolidated into 10 one stop, one building. 11 a couple of graphics. 12 I will get into that with The exterior plan is to erect canopies 13 over waiting areas, reconstruction of curb, 14 sidewalk and pavement. 15 to create, contraflow bus traffic on River, Fulton 16 and Fourth Streets. 17 actually presented to the city and gained approval 18 for. 19 We are creating, proposing That's something we've Other site modifications, other 20 modifications necessary as well, to accommodate 21 pedestrian access to the facility itself and 22 meeting ADA requirements, primarily on the 23 sidewalk areas. JEANNE O'CONNELL, RPR (518) 491-7292 13 1 So, the alternatives that were 2 considered. 3 at in 2015 was a transit center at the southwest 4 corner of the garage property. 5 to highlight the alternatives. 6 Our first alternative that we looked There are graphics Second site we evaluated is at the 7 southeast corner of the existing property. We 8 also looked at a portion of an area on Broadway, 9 south of the site we're proposing at, between 10 Third and Fourth Streets. 11 null alternative is to provide whatever is there 12 today for riders today into the future. 13 And then obviously the So, the first alternative, we'll go 14 through a quick overview. 15 right. 16 Fourth Street is one-way northbound. 17 or River Street is one-way southbound. 18 So, north is to the Buses, remember the one-way streets, Third Street So, the purpose of creating one central 19 area is to get all the riders in one place, get on 20 and off the bus, get on and off the bus on the 21 right side of the bus, and provide areas where you 22 don't have to cross the street to transfer between 23 buses, which is currently the bus stop is here JEANNE O'CONNELL, RPR (518) 491-7292 14 1 northbound, and the bus stop is here southbound. 2 So, any riders on those eight, nine routes that 3 have to transfer get off and transfer over or wait 4 where they are to transfer to a different bus. 5 So, with this alternative, buses coming 6 northbound turn left on to Fulton Street, which is 7 being changed from one-way traffic to two-way 8 traffic. The red arrows represent bus only 9 traffic. The black arrows would represent 10 vehicular traffic. 11 Again, buses would stop here in the 12 berths. 13 sidewalk where the waiting area would be. 14 waiting and climate controlled space is here 15 represented by the transit center in this 16 location. 17 continue contraflow against traffic in its own 18 lane, through the alleyway to the left. 19 The canopy is outlined here over the Inside And then buses going to the north would Buses coming from the south turn left 20 into the alleyway, turn right on Fourth Street, 21 right down Fulton Street, into the three berths 22 that are provided to pick up, drop off passengers. 23 One function of the alleyway is that JEANNE O'CONNELL, RPR (518) 491-7292 15 1 space for laying over the buses which currently 2 now park on River Street. 3 relocate that in the alleyway. 4 We're looking to So, alternative two was developed after 5 some initial meetings with the property owner 6 discouraging us from looking at this location 7 while we were encouraged to look at the southeast 8 corner. 9 actually identical. Very similar flow of traffic. They are Buses go left on Fulton, 10 right, right and left. 11 To the alleyway, right, right, and then left. 12 Southbound, same thing. This alternative you can see there is 13 larger canopy areas. 14 Fulton Street for buses going northbound, and then 15 there is two berths plus on Fourth Street for 16 buses coming southbound to stop and drop off 17 riders. 18 So, there's two berths on In the two alternatives, there's a 19 limited area of unloading and loading activity 20 space with alternative one. 21 it's more expandable. 22 Fulton, two berths on Fourth Street, larger areas 23 for passengers to wait under the canopy, and also With alternative two, There's two berths on JEANNE O'CONNELL, RPR (518) 491-7292 16 1 a more centralized building in this corner for 2 folks wishing to wait, get on and off the bus out 3 of the building and into the northbound and 4 southbound directions. 5 Alternative three mentioned is the south. 6 So, that area I was talking about is off to the 7 right of the page, actually here in this corner. 8 We looked at an additional location here on 9 Broadway which involves a similar pattern. Left, 10 buses stop on right side. 11 would have a contraflow on Third Street. 12 Street is already one-way so the roads would stay 13 the same, Fulton and Broadway. 14 left on Fourth Street to go north. 15 River would go left, right and right on to 16 Broadway, and continue left for southbound 17 destinations. 18 alternative one. 19 enclosed waiting area and transit center itself. 20 Going northbound, we Fulton Again, then turn Conversely, It's very similar size to A limited area for a canopy So, then, for the comparison that I just 21 went through, alternative one does meet the 22 purpose and the need. 23 efficiency capacity operations. There is good as far as JEANNE O'CONNELL, RPR Stop is (518) 491-7292 17 1 centralized. 2 So, from an operational standpoint and a capacity 3 standpoint, it was judged as good. 4 Transfers can occur in one location. Street impacts, impacts on parking, were 5 judged as good as well. 6 relocations of on street parking that need to 7 happen and actually some elimination of on street 8 parking. 9 There are some Similarly was noted as good. Impacts to adjacent properties was noted 10 as poor because of visual impacts to actual 11 neighboring businesses at that location, and we 12 were actually asked to move that building location 13 to alternative two. 14 is best. 15 there's only three berths to alternative one. 16 There's four berths to alternative two. 17 expandability and efficiency capacity, that's why 18 those bests are there on the alternative two 19 compared to alternative one. 20 Proximity to existing stops Expandability is poor. I've gone over So, Two also meets the purpose and the need. 21 The parking street impacts are the same as 22 alternative one, which is building location that 23 moved primarily. Impacts to adjacent properties JEANNE O'CONNELL, RPR (518) 491-7292 18 1 we feel is best in the location that is adjacent 2 to the Atrium, no existing building in place, and 3 there's no neighboring businesses that don't 4 already have some type of bus service abutting 5 their business. 6 Proximity to existing stops is good. 7 It's a little further away from the existing Uncle 8 Sam stop southbound, which is the busier of the 9 two existing split stops. 10 I mentioned expandability is best there. 11 Alternative three also meets the purpose 12 and need generally, although it scores poor or 13 worst in all other categories. 14 expandability. 15 expand, but it's further away from the primary 16 stop generator, which is at the existing location. 17 Alternative four is the null alternative. It has some There's some right-of-way to 18 Clearly doesn't meet the purpose and need of 19 providing indoor climate controlled waiting space. 20 Doesn't provide a covered waiting space on the 21 sidewalk. 22 the stops if they are looking to transfer between 23 routes. It requires folks to transfer between JEANNE O'CONNELL, RPR (518) 491-7292 19 1 Impacts to the street parking are 2 obviously the best because it's the existing. 3 There are no changes to the street. 4 there's not only issues with buses stopping and 5 cuing on River Street blocking the park, but 6 there's also issues with the bus stop next to Nite 7 Owl News with pedestrians and transfer riders all 8 sitting in one place, trying to serve the 9 different needs. 10 However, So, the impact there is judged worst from 11 what we currently have. 12 because that's where it is in the current 13 situation. 14 Proximity was the best Just a summary of right-of-way impacts. 15 So, alternative one and alternative two are pretty 16 close in terms of what areas have to be acquired. 17 Alternative three is a smaller acquisition area 18 than the other two alternatives primarily because 19 of the alleyway. 20 alternative three for layovers to occur, which we 21 are planning to acquire. 22 numbers are a lot lower. 23 There's no alleyway in So, that's why the As you look at the two areas and then you JEANNE O'CONNELL, RPR (518) 491-7292 20 1 judge the benefits of each alternative, one and 2 two, we're splitting hairs between the areas of 3 acquisition, and the preferred alternative in this 4 situation is alternative two at this time. 5 Clearly, the null alternative, there's no 6 right-of-way impacts associated with this present 7 condition for a baseline condition. 8 9 10 11 12 I'll turn it over to Jim to highlight the aspects of the right-of-way acquisition process. MR. DELORIA: Jim Deloria from R.K. Hite and Company. Essentially, there are four steps in the 13 right-of-way process -- an initial meeting with 14 each property owner, the real property appraisal, 15 establishing just compensation and negotiating a 16 settlement and transferring title to CDTA. 17 primary goal through the process is to negotiate a 18 fair settlement with each property owner. 19 Our The first step in the process is a 20 preliminary meeting with one of our property 21 rights specialists. 22 specialist will contact you to schedule a 23 convenient time to meet at your property. The property rights JEANNE O'CONNELL, RPR (518) 491-7292 At this 21 1 meeting, they will provide you with information 2 about the acquisition process and an explanation 3 of the proposed impacts to your property. 4 We will also inspect the property and 5 gather preliminary information. 6 meet will also handle your negotiations. 7 it's important for you to have one person you can 8 contact if you have any questions. 9 The person you We think The next step in the process is the real 10 property appraisal. 11 determine the fair market value for the property 12 rights to be acquired. 13 research and analyze the real estate market in 14 your area. 15 information will be reviewed. 16 The appraisal will be used to The appraiser will first Comparable sales data and other market Next, the appraiser will inspect each 17 property. 18 gathered at this time. 19 opportunity to accompany the appraiser during this 20 visit. 21 No one knows your property better than you do. 22 Finally, the appraiser will prepare a 23 report. Site specific information will be You will be given the You should take advantage of this offer. The report will document his or her JEANNE O'CONNELL, RPR (518) 491-7292 22 1 findings and state the fair market value of the 2 property rights to be acquired. 3 Just compensation is the price CDTA must 4 pay to acquire your property. CDTA will establish 5 an amount it believes to be just compensation. 6 This amount will not be less than the highest 7 approved fair market value for your property. 8 stated previously, the fair market value is 9 determined during the appraisal phase. As We try to 10 offer an amount that reflects the price a willing 11 buyer and a willing seller would agree to in an 12 open market. 13 To avoid any possible confusion, we will 14 prepare a written offer for each property. 15 offer will include a statement of the just 16 compensation amount, the basis for the just 17 compensation amount, and a description of the 18 property and the interest to be acquired. 19 contact each property owner and schedule a 20 convenient time to meet. 21 negotiator will deliver and review the written 22 offer. 23 The We will At this meeting, the Once you have accepted the offer, we will JEANNE O'CONNELL, RPR (518) 491-7292 23 1 prepare the necessary papers and schedule a 2 closing. 3 estate transactions you may have been involved in. 4 I'd like to quickly summarize the process The closing is similar to other real 5 we will use to acquire real property on this 6 project. 7 owner to provide information on the project and 8 potential impacts to the property. 9 First, we'll meet with each property Next, we'll appraise your property to 10 determine fair market value. 11 will be used by CDTA to establish just 12 compensation. 13 compensation, we will prepare and deliver a 14 written offer to each affected property owner. 15 Fair market value Once CDTA has established just We understand that the right-of-way 16 process may be new to you. I'd like to assure you 17 that we'll try our best to make it as easy as 18 possible for you. 19 acquire the property by negotiation. CDTA will make every effort to 20 That concludes my presentation. 21 have any questions, I will be available after the 22 meeting. 23 MR. TEATOR: Thanks, Jim. JEANNE O'CONNELL, RPR (518) 491-7292 If you 24 1 Just a quick recap on next steps and 2 schedule. 3 hearing. 4 project, go out to bidding for our final design 5 documents in the winter. 6 year in the spring. 7 2019. 8 Tonight is obviously the public We plan to move forward with the Begin construction next Complete construction summer With that, turn it back over to Kelley to 9 conclude the hearing. 10 MS. KIRCHER: This concludes the 11 technical portion of the public hearing. 12 important aspect of the public hearing process is 13 receiving comments from the general public 14 regarding the project. 15 An At this time, I would like to open the 16 floor for public comment. 17 your attention to the fact that the required 18 format for this public hearing does not allow us 19 to respond to your statements and questions at 20 this time. 21 received will be considered in the preparation of 22 the determination and findings. 23 I would like to call However, all statements and comments I have two people who wish to comment JEANNE O'CONNELL, RPR (518) 491-7292 25 1 this evening. If there are any others, please be 2 sure you fill out a card. 3 please come up and state your name and address for 4 the record. 5 each individual to address this hearing. 6 necessary, CDTA will provide written responses to 7 comments received tonight. When I call your name, We have allotted three minutes for 8 Pat Seely. 9 MR. SEELY: As My name is Pat Seely. 10 with the law firm of E. Stewart Jones Hacker 11 Murphy. 12 garage, who is our client on this. I'm I'm here on behalf of the Uncle Sam 13 I know there have been a lot of 14 discussions that have gone on between the folks at 15 Creighton Manning and the folks on behalf of the 16 garage, and I know a lot of progress has been made 17 over the course of these past several months. 18 From what I gather, talking to various people, 19 whether it's Doug or Amanda, the door is still 20 open for that to continue. 21 understand it is from our side as well. 22 changed, I suppose that's a different issue. 23 There are several things. JEANNE O'CONNELL, RPR I want everybody to If that's One, while (518) 491-7292 26 1 there's been plenty of discussions, and my folks 2 are well aware of what it is the areas that you 3 guys plan to acquire, what we aren't terribly 4 clear about is exactly what interests you're 5 acquiring of the property, and nor have there 6 been, so far as I can see right now, a 7 presentation for anybody else in the room that 8 identifies where it is that you're acquiring it. 9 We, on behalf of the Uncle Sam garage, 10 have a decent idea, but I don't know that anybody 11 else does, to be honest with you. 12 There has been, certainly in the 13 discussions back and forth, identification of what 14 our client believes is the costs that are proposed 15 for this, several million dollars; that those 16 costs, at least from what they've done, in their 17 experience, is contractors who have done plenty of 18 work, that they believe that those costs should be 19 about two thirds of what they are. 20 So, that's something for the board to 21 consider when they're looking at this as far as 22 sharpening their pencils. 23 into the cost benefit of this. JEANNE O'CONNELL, RPR I think that also ties We're spending (518) 491-7292 27 1 several million dollars to move a bus stop that 2 could be created in the same spot where it is now, 3 so far as I can tell. 4 to me that we're shooting a mouse with an elephant 5 gun, because I haven't heard too much in terms of 6 the benefits here. 7 I am no engineer, but seems I haven't heard that there have been 8 accidents from pedestrians crossing the street or 9 anything like that, or any of that kind of thing 10 that we might want to address that would justify 11 spending this kind of money and changing 12 directions of roads, in addition to the impacts 13 that it creates on this. 14 So, I think that when the board is 15 considering this, that cost benefit should be a 16 part of it as well. 17 many months down the road and it's probably 18 already taken care of, but I think that, at least 19 as far as this location is concerned, that cost 20 benefit be something the board considers. 21 I realize this project is One issue that's come up very recently, 22 in fact, just in the last few days, and I know our 23 client sent an e-mail over very recent, just JEANNE O'CONNELL, RPR (518) 491-7292 28 1 yesterday perhaps, that right now the proposal is 2 that the footings for this bus shelter are going 3 to tap into the existing footings for the garage. 4 The garage is about 40 years old, and now 5 I'm going to wander into areas that I know very 6 little about, which is it is apparently a post 7 tension garage that has cables in there, and just 8 enough work of using the corner of those footings 9 could cause the type of stress on the garage that 10 may not have been considered thus far, at least as 11 far as my folks can tell. 12 If that happens, now we're pulling on 13 something, pulling on the garage in a way that it 14 hasn't been before, and it might create issues 15 nobody has perhaps, to this point, considered. 16 Also, exiting traffic from the garage. 17 As I understand it right now, CDTA proposes to 18 close the Fourth Street exit from the parking 19 garage and place it out in that alleyway so that 20 the traffic will exit out that way and lose some 21 of these parking spots. 22 23 One thing here is that, having walked around that garage this evening myself, it's very JEANNE O'CONNELL, RPR (518) 491-7292 29 1 busy at rush hour; and that, coupled with what I 2 assume is going to be the right-of-way for the 3 buses in there, it's going to create quite a 4 bottleneck in the garage at the busiest times. 5 So, there should be something that's done to 6 accommodate that, some sort of traffic control, 7 that will allow the folks to be able to get out of 8 the garage. 9 The neighboring properties -- and I think 10 there will be folks here to talk about this, but 11 right now the plan is to put buses, the waiting 12 area, in that alleyway, which puts it right on the 13 back of the Best Western Hotel. 14 has been done about that, but it would seem to me 15 that you would have put some kind of sound barrier 16 deck over there. 17 25 feet, 30 feet away, from what I could see 18 there. I don't know what You have people in rooms maybe 19 Maintenance is a big issue here as well. 20 The snow removal, right at the top deck up there, 21 you don't have any place to put the snow, and you 22 folks are planning to take away areas that they 23 currently use and create the kind of impact which JEANNE O'CONNELL, RPR (518) 491-7292 30 1 last winter, winter before, nothing happened, but 2 we get a winter with heavy snow and there's no 3 place to put the snow. 4 been weighed in here to consider, so that everyone 5 can appreciate just how hard it is to take a block 6 sized area in the city and put snow somewhere it's 7 supposed to be. 8 9 I don't know if that's As part of this, I understand there's work to fix some sidewalks, I think I heard that 10 mentioned here earlier tonight, and the city is 11 making a requirement that all sidewalks be porous 12 so that storm water drains through where they are. 13 Those things have a much shorter life. 14 concrete sidewalks 40 years, plus or minus; porous 15 sidewalk maybe 10. 16 pay for that, who's picking up that cost here. 17 you're dumping on the landowners, then that's just 18 adding further aggravation to this. 19 Currently, I don't know who's going to If With this contraflow traffic, you're 20 going to be refiguring things that are going to 21 impact loading, like the Fulton loading dock, and 22 right now there's going to be a convenient store 23 which goes into what used to be the OTB space JEANNE O'CONNELL, RPR (518) 491-7292 31 1 center of gravity. 2 There's going to be no place for these 3 trucks to deliver the goods to either CVS or the 4 convenient store right now without affecting 5 people who are crossing the street carrying 6 merchandise. 7 going to be using it. 8 spaces and anybody who's going to go into the new 9 space down there. 10 That's a problem for anybody who's It's currently using those I didn't hear anything in the 11 presentation tonight about what really the problem 12 was with using the current location in a way that 13 would cost many multiples less than what you're 14 planning to spend. 15 You addressed the other areas. There's 16 no reason why you couldn't put this spot in the 17 alleyway behind the garage, not bothering anybody, 18 there's no traffic flow problems. 19 something that I didn't hear as an alternative in 20 here. 21 you have on River Street. 22 picking up passengers. 23 alleyway. So, that's Right now, that makes the same situations Buses are sitting there Just do it in the Solve a lot of problems here. JEANNE O'CONNELL, RPR (518) 491-7292 32 1 One issue that I have not had a chance to 2 dig in deeply on is CDTA has not unlimited 3 authority in what it can acquire. 4 through the books, I know you get to acquire a 5 transportation facility. 6 A quick look I haven't yet determined what that means 7 because I haven't had a chance, but I'm not sure 8 that the type of acquisitions you're talking about 9 here fit that category. So, I don't know if 10 you're within the scope of what you are allowed to 11 do under your enabling legislation. 12 I think I have covered everything on my 13 list. Thank you for letting me go more than three 14 minutes. I appreciate that. 15 MS. KIRCHER: 16 MR. BRYCE: David Bryce. I just wanted to make it 17 clear for the record that CDTA was gracious in 18 discussing the property with us and exploring 19 design alternatives. 20 kind of discussions were shut off, and I was very 21 close to accepting the offer that wasn't fair, but 22 it was good for the community, so I thought I 23 should participate despite its negative economic Sometime around July, any JEANNE O'CONNELL, RPR (518) 491-7292 33 1 impact on me and my family. 2 I'm the owner of the garage, 3 incidentally. 4 -- I sent in a request for CDTA to consider moving 5 the curb at the -- near the current Third Street 6 location two feet to the east. 7 other comments in the e-mail, and we can and we 8 will make it a part of the public record just 9 because it was insulting, the response, in my 10 And what happened at July is I got There were two mind, that I got. 11 During the process, I've heard from 12 various entities that I slowed the process down, 13 but the process didn't allow for a turning lane 14 into the garage -- and no fault to Creighton 15 Manning's design, they did a great job with 16 things, but adding a turning lane took two months. 17 Once the turning lane was added, then it 18 became apparent you needed a boulevard in front of 19 it. 20 pleasant design, but the boulevard has a needle 21 nose and it would never support vegetation, so 22 we'd have an ugly boulevard. 23 So, we put in a boulevard, and it was a I want to make it clear for the board, JEANNE O'CONNELL, RPR (518) 491-7292 34 1 and if it comes up at the board, that most of our 2 objections to this process, and what has brought 3 us here tonight, is that in July -- and it 4 probably was due to time pressures, but any 5 ability on our part to help improve the aesthetic 6 of the intersections involved here were just 7 closed off, and no longer would CDTA consider 8 improving the width of the boulevard to accept 9 plantings, or simply move this curb two feet in 10 that direction. 11 indicating take it or leave it. 12 didn't set well with me. 13 Instead, I got an e-mail That certainly Subsequent to that, a number of issues, 14 some of which Pat brought up here, but there's 15 quite a few more that will come to light, 16 partially because we were never given the courtesy 17 of reviewing any of the drawings. 18 attaching a monster to our beautiful building. 19 It's an ugly building. 20 building. 21 That CDTA is I should say ugly In a lot of ways, we just are unhappy 22 with how we've been treated on this thing. 23 graciously tried to work with you and then the JEANNE O'CONNELL, RPR (518) 491-7292 We 35 1 July 2017 take it or leave it. 2 us here more than anything. 3 MS. KIRCHER: 4 Michael Cocca. 5 MR. COCCA: That's what's got Thank you. My name is Michael Cocca and 6 I own the Franklin Square Best Western. 7 don't really own any of the property that's 8 involved, but I'm very concerned about the whole 9 situation. I'm a good neighbor. So, I I was an early 10 developer in Troy, one of the first guys here when 11 it was a ghost town. 12 David Bryce. 13 I have lots of trade with We share parking. I have a great relationship with CDTA. 14 We provide all the bathrooms all day long, so 15 11:00 at night all the bus drivers, which sounds 16 like nothing, but it's definitely an 17 inconvenience. 18 otherwise would have no place to go when they're 19 on this shift to the bathroom. 20 to be Switzerland, as I call it. 21 We take good care of them and they So, I always try I don't get involved in politics. I 22 don't get involved in city rhetoric and craziness. 23 I take care of my own four walls. JEANNE O'CONNELL, RPR But no one has (518) 491-7292 36 1 more of a vision and a drive for a better Troy 2 than I do. 3 Again, I came in when it was a ghost town 4 and have paid dearly. 5 have two more major hotels coming to Troy, which 6 gives me big competition. 7 that except that they have PILOT programs and 8 don't pay any taxes for 25 years, and I pay 9 $165,000 a year, so that it makes it very hard for 10 I have concerns because we I'm not a crybaby about me to do business. 11 When I was first approached by this a 12 long time ago by CDTA and David, there was a warm, 13 fuzzy meeting. 14 to do this, we're going to change traffic. 15 the bus stops. 16 walking down the street. 17 me. 18 Everybody was happy. We're going I hate Nite Owl News. I hate I hate It was very exciting for Do you have any concerns? Well, yeah, of 19 course I have concerns because they're going to 20 put buses under all my bedrooms. 21 a noisy hotel, people are going to go over to the 22 new hotels which aren't connected to this mess. 23 So, if I become But it was a wonderful relationship. JEANNE O'CONNELL, RPR (518) 491-7292 37 1 CDTA was out front. 2 We're going to make this right. 3 done well. 4 improve everything around us. 5 We got plenty of money. It's going to be David's excited because it's going to And I get a call in July and says the 6 project is off. I didn't get a call. I heard it 7 on the street that the project fell apart. 8 don't call anybody. 9 the project fell apart. I don't even call him. I Okay, I've heard this in Troy. 10 You know, it's always one step forward, two steps 11 backwards in Troy anyway. 12 So, I just took it in stride, another 13 movie theater. 14 day. 15 We'd like you at a meeting. 16 went to the meeting. 17 the hotel. 18 there, and according to them, the project is on, 19 the project is going, but it's going to be through 20 eminent domain. 21 Then I got blind sided the other CDTA called and said, the project is on. My cousin Michael He's the other half owner of And we're shocked that David wasn't Well, to me as a businessowner and 22 property owner, when you have to go to the level 23 of eminent domain, it means you're taking JEANNE O'CONNELL, RPR (518) 491-7292 38 1 someone's property that probably didn't want to 2 sell it. 3 them fairly and give them fair market and 4 everything else, but if they were going to be a 5 happy seller, they would be selling to you and you 6 wouldn't have to go through eminent domain. 7 That's just my little pea brain way of 8 understanding it. 9 It all sounds nice that you would treat So, now I am concerned. Our concerns are 10 that I am not in those warm, fuzzy meetings 11 anymore. 12 Not that I can control the project, I don't own 13 the property, but it does impact my future. 14 have a $7 million investment there and I have to 15 pay for it. 16 I'm getting kind of backdoor politicked. I I am concerned, and want a public record, 17 I'm concerned about what's going to be done, how 18 it's going to be done, how noise will be handled, 19 how fumes will be handled, and the future of 20 everything. 21 So, I was told if it's not on public 22 record tonight then you can't bring it into the 23 process later. So, we are very concerned about JEANNE O'CONNELL, RPR (518) 491-7292 39 1 the future. And I don't like the non-upfrontness 2 that I'm experiencing right now. 3 that to be public record. 4 Thank you. 5 MS. KIRCHER: 6 7 Would anyone else like to speak? MR. SEELY: I have got a written 8 statement for my comments. 9 in as part of the record. 10 And just want MS. KIRCHER: I just want to put it That would be part of 11 Exhibit 6, which will include all of this and 12 written comments. 13 So, I would like to thank everyone for 14 coming this evening. 15 and documents will be accepted by CDTA until the 16 close of business on November 30th. 17 Written comments, questions Please submit your written statements to 18 Douglas Teator at Creighton Manning Engineering, 2 19 Winners Circle, Albany, New York 12205. 20 written statements will be incorporated into the 21 hearing record. 22 These I now adjourn this hearing. (Hearing concluded at 6:45 p.m.) 23 JEANNE O'CONNELL, RPR (518) 491-7292 40 1 C E R T I F I C A T I O N 2 3 4 I, Jeanne O'Connell, Registered Professional Reporter 5 and Notary Public in and for the State of New York, do 6 hereby certify that the foregoing to be a true and 7 accurate transcription of the stenographic notes as 8 taken by me of the aforesaid proceedings. 9 10 J eanne O'Connel l 11 11/27/17 12 _________________ Date 13 ___________________________ Jeanne O'Connell 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 JEANNE O'CONNELL, RPR (518) 491-7292