LOUISVILLE AND JEFFERSON COUNTY 00* i 1? ?775 CRIMES AGAINST CHILDREN UNIT . JERRY E. ABRAMSON 436 Seventh Street DAVID L. Louisville, Kentucky 40203 . County JudgefExecut'Ne (502)588-2465 (502)588?2098 OK. it's 10?11?93. It's approximately 1000 hrs. We're located in the Crimes Against Children Unit office, 436 South 7th Street. Present in the room is Commonwealth Attorney's Prosecutor Lisa Schweickart, Detectives Schiller and Redmond with the CACU. Attorney Tim MbCall, and Jerry Lawler. This interview is in reference to Case #93?1468. SCHILLER First of all, Mr. Lawler, what I would like . to do is, is of course if you'd seen any episodes of Matlock or anything else you know about people getting their rights, have certain rights that are, that are granted to you by the laws of the state and. and the government. And I want to go over these with you and make sure that you understand them. If you have any questions LAWLER well sure. SCHILLER we can explain them, First of all you have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. have the right to talk to a lawyer prior to any questioning or the making of any statements and to have him present with you while you are being questioned. And actually that's why Mr. MCCall is here today. MCCALL Right. SCHILLER If you cannot afford to hire a lawyer one will be appointed by the court to represent you before any questioning if you desire .one. And you may stop the questioning or making of any statements at any time by refusing to answer further or by requesting to consult with an attorney prior continuing with the questioning or the making of any statements. Do you understand those rights? LAWLER Yes. SCHILLER OK. What this is it's called a waiver of rights. Simply what it means it?s not an admission of any guilt, it just indicates "An Equal Opportunity Employer" Jerry Lawler Statement Page Two SCHILLER (cont'd) MCCALL SCHILLER MCCALL LAWLER SCHILLER LAWLER MCCALL LAWLER that we have given you your rights, you understand those rights and you wish to waive those at this time and go ahead and discuss the case with us. Right. Is that correct? OK. So you need to sign that, Jerry, and I'll sign it as a witness. OK. Just sign right there on that. 0K, Mike, do you want to sign this? OK, Hr. Lawler, I, I just understand by, by talking to Tim that, that you had some things that you want to go over with us, things you want to discuss with us about this. well yeah, I, I certainly would like to, you know, have an opportunity to tell you all at least my side of the story and I, and, and hopefully, uh, as, as I was telling Tim, uh, you know, uh, knowing that an, an indictment in my case would, I mean it'd just, it, you know, it would be devastating to, to not my family and my career and anything would, you know, and especially when it's something that, that has gotten so blown out of proportion and, and, uh, it just, I mean it's just, it's just totally not true. And, uh, I understand that these girls have, have told a story that have some truth to it and I know the girls and (inaudible). You know, the funny thing is I've always thought they were friends of mine and, uh, but I think that the, the way the story came about, that the way that, the reason they started telling the story is, is, uh, has not ever been brought out, you know. And, and I think that has a lot to do with how, how my name got involved with this. OK, how is that? Maybe you know something we don't. well, uh, the girls, uh, and I?m not even really sure of her last name, I think it's uh, have, have been regular fans at the wrestling matches for years. Uh Jerry Lawler Statement Page Three (Blank area in tape.) LAWLER MCCALL LAWLER MCCALL LAWLER Uh, like groupies. The wrestlers have, for the years have had sort of an affectionate term for them and not, maybe not, uh, too respectful but they're, we term them arena rats. And I mean, you know, when you you see these girls, you know, you say, say, there's a couple of arena rats hanging around the back door, that sort of thing. Uh, and as I said both of these girls I had thought, you I have known for a long time and thought they were my friendsometimes at Louisville Gardens like the little photo sessions where people can come and have their picture made standing next to a wrestler for a, a picture made Right. And you you charge them $5.00 and, and, uh, ordinarily my girlfriend comes with me to Louisville Gardensphoto session she will go out, take the pictures, take the money from the people, that sort of thing and, and they wait in line, come up and have their picture taken. well a, a couple of times in the past when my girlfriend wasn't there I've let and have asked to do that for me and they've taken the pictures and I let them handle the Honey and everything and I've paid them, you know, each one of them $10.00 for, for helping me out on the thing. And so, uh, yeah, that's why, that's why most of this comes as like such a, such a shock to me, that, that it has gotten to this point. Uh, but the way that understand that this all came about was, uh Jerry, could you tell them of how the first time you heard about this and who you heard it from? Yeah, 0K. The very, the very first time I heard anything at all about it it was, uh, I would say-probably about 4 weeks ago now. Uh, I was wrestling in, here in Louisville and I was downstairs at, uh, in, in my dressing room. And, uh, he's not actually the building manager of Louisville Gardens Jerry Lawler Statement Page Four LAWLER (Cont'd) MCCALL LAWLER MCCALL LAWLER but he's, he's one of the guys that's in charge there during the events, uh, something. Uh, he came down in my dressing room and he said Jerry, do you know anything about, uh, uh, some guy he, he said I want.to ask you, he said some guy came in here claiming that he was the, uh, the relative to or custodial parent to two young girls that you supposedly have been messing with. And I said I don't have any idea what you're talking about, it's got to be some, I just, I mean, can't remember the exact words, I said he's got to be some goofball. And so, uh, I didn't really, I didn't really think any more about it until, uh, uh, it was about then that, like a week later, uh, I got a call from, I got a call from two people. First of all I got a call from, uh, the lady that runs or is the manager of the Days Inn in Sellersburg, Indiana. And, uh, she called as and told me that I guess that you guys have been over there asking questions about, about that. And then, uh, oh, who's the other person, another wrestler named called me and, and told me a similar thing, that he had a friend that, uh, that worked at a store that you guys had talked to and, and so he told and then told me. He said I, you know, he said I don't know what's going on but, you know, I just know people are asking questions about it. And I still, you know, I, I still hadn't really hadn't put 2 and 2 together until, uh, I asked about it. And, uh, told me, you know that I guess that you guys had had talked to him and that, that this was like a real serious deal (inaudible). Uh, you know, that, I, I couldn't believe what, what?he was telling me, you know. I said this is, it's, it's sort of crazy. So then I, you know I started checking around and trying to find out what was, what was going on. And, uh I don't mean to interrupt you here Yeah Let me just direct you in a couple of directions and then (inaudible) Sure.? Jerry Lawler Statement Page Five MCCALL LAWLER MCCALL IAWLER MCCAEL LAWLER MCCALL LAWLER Tell them about the Sellersburg situation, exactly what happened on that. OK. Because I think that's the first situation that we, we have knowledge of. OK. Uh, well, well when you say that I mean like what I've heard that they said or what actually happened or what? Tell them what actually happened and then they might have some questions about it. OK. OK. Uh, back in may, uh, I wrestled here on a Tuesday night at LouisVille Gardens. And both and were there and it's, it's a, it's a funny thing, I and like if my girlfriend, I mean if my girlfriend comes with me, uh, and they see that she's there they're like, I mean you know I, I just thought of them as like big fans. Right. And, but they act jealous if they're, if they see my girlfriend's there because they, they have come up and like one time when she was doing the pictures they would, especially, would walk by and go bitdh, slut and, and then when she was taking the pictures after the picture taking one time she'the stands and, and, and screaming obscenities at her as she went by, you know. As a matter of fact so, so strong that, uh, that later on came up to have a picture made even after she had been doing that and my girlfriend came up and, you know, grabbed her by the arm and said look, what is the deal with you, you know, saying this kind of stuff. So she, and she said oh, that wasn't me saying that. She, she said I was looking right in your eyes, you know. But anyway so she was a little upset with my girlfriend. But that particular week, and they would always ask if my girlfriend was with me. well that particular week my girlfriend was not with me. And on the Tuesday night they had they had told me that,?uh, they were going Jerry Lawler Statement Page Six LAWLER (cont'd) to skip school the next day and come over to the hotel and see the wrestlers. WEll it's like so many of these girls do a lot of big talking at the matches. And, and I would, I really honestly believe that about 99 or 90 percent of what they do is all talk because, uh, you know, I know the wrestlers and I know it's, it's no, it?s no big deal for one of them to say oh, I was with Jerry Lawler last week or I was with or I was with you know, to one of the other girls. And, and I'm know, knowing all the time that they weren't, you know, and, uh, 'and, uh, it's cases of that in, in every city. I mean there's a, there's a little girls in, in Nashville that, that tells everyone, swears to everyone that she's fiancee. well . is married and, and, and you know, and wouldn't even look twice at his little girl, but she would swear to anybody that, that they're going to-get married, you know. And that's just, that's just the way these girls will talk to each other and tell these stories trying to impress each other. Uh, one time my business partner was, was wrestling there in Louisville and his wife came to the matches and the, some of the girls knew that was his wife. She went into the restroom so two girls made it their business to march in and be sure that within earshot of her that 'oh yeah, I was with last week, last Tuesday night he spent the night with me, oh, he's a great lover' and all this, you know. It wound up they got in a fight, actually came to blows in the, in the, the place, they had to pull them apart, you know, and it was just, she was just, they, they get, and, and you know, it's part of the allure of wrestling. Naturally all we have to sell is an image. And, and it's just like any form of show business. If you can, if you want the public to think that you are accessible, to think that they might have a chance to be around you but, I mean because that's the only way they will come to see you and pay money to come to see you. Once they find out that you're not accessible a lot of times they get, uh, embarrassed for even thinking that you were or they get upset that you're not, . Jerry Lawler Statement Page Seven you know. So most of the guys try to keep the fact, you know, your personal life you try to keep out of it because people want to think that you're bigger than life, the, the fans want, they don't want to know that you got a wife and that you-got a house note and that you got a car note and stuff like that. You know, they want to, they want to, they want to think that gosh, this is, this is, uh, somebody that's, that's not like me, that's not an average person, not an ordinary person, they're something special. That's the only way they're going to pay money to come to see you. So, uh, you know, the, these two girls told me that, that, uh, they were going to skip school the next day, come over to the hotel and-see the wrestlers. And they had, I mean I didn't think a thing about it because I knew, first of all, uh, the, the wrestling or the wrestlers that stay at the, the Days Inn which is about probably 90% of them would wrestle in Louisville on Tuesday night and they we wrestle in Evansville, Indiana on wednesdays. It's like a circuit, Memphis is Mbnday, Louisville is Tuesday, Evansville, Indiana is WEdnesday, and so on to, to around the week to, right up to Nashville on Saturday. And so, uh, we stay at the, everybody stays at the Days Inn in Sellersburg because they give the guys a, a special rate and then they give you a late checkout. So you don't really have to, uh, it's only like a hour and a half drive from, an, from Louisville to Evansville so you got the whole day to kill. And that's, they stay there because they give you the late checkout. And it's, it's a, sort of a congregating place for, for these girls, a certain certain number of these girls that find out and know where the wrestlers stay and they go there. I mean, you know, when the matches are over that night they'll got over there as long as the wrestlers stay there they're hanging around. I mean it has been, at one time it's almost like a, a, like an airport holding pattern. I mean girls would actually circle the, the Days, and you know, just driving around the parking lot waiting for a wrestler to come out of his room or something. They'll go next door and wait at the, at the restaurant there. So I Jerry Lawler Statement Page Eight LAWLER (cont'd) MCCALL LAWLER didn't even, I didn't even think anything about it. They called and asked, uh, you .know Let me ask you one question or, had these girls have or told you before or asked you before or said they were going to meet you and never shown up? Had that happened before? Yeah the, well yeah, they both had said that they would come to the hotel before. But I, I had, I think, uh, the only time I've actually seen them at the at the hotel in Sellersburg was, uh, one time as I was checking in with my girlfriend, uh, they, they, uh, were in, like-parked in a car with somebody else, you know, with some other girls. They have some they have friends that, uh, have cars. And, and these girls, they just, you know, they want to be in the know, they want, and I nean they will drive over there and they'll try to rush to get there before the wrestlers do and they'll, they'll park and watch, you know, watch like your every move. They'll, they'll park over in the dark and they want to know what wrestler, what room the into and, and then they'll go back and they'll call later and that sort of stuff. And, and they've, especially and too, I mean they, I'm sure, and certainly I'm sure I'm not the only one but they've called my room a hundred times, you know, on Tuesday nights when they're at home. And, uh, as I said I'm sure they call everybody else and I know that when I'm not in Louisville I know they're over talking to, uh, other wrestlers and that, that, that sort of thing. But anyway they, they, they said that, they called that Tuesday night and said that they were going to come over the next day. well I, like I said I didn't even think anything about it. W.., about, uh, and I'm really not, I'm really not sure exactly what time because I, I mean I've wracked my brain since all of this has come come up, you know, trying to think of any details, I mean to, to, uh, you know, verify my side of the story. But, but it was so insignificant at the time I I just didn't, you know, because I knew there was, there was nothing going on, that I just Jerry Lawler Statement Page Nine IAWLER (cont 'd didn't, I didn't think anything about it. So, uh, I don't remember exactly what time it was. But there was a knock on my door and, uh, I got up, went to the door and there's and standing there. Now, uh, they, they wanted to come in and use the phone because they had concocted some lavish, I, you know, at first I was surprised, I said what, what are y'all doing here? So they had an elaborate little scheme that they had concocted where they, they both skipped school, it was a school day, they had both skipped school and, uh, had, or well maybe both of them but I know they both used the phone but had, I remember how she explained it, her mother, her mother's boyfriend lives next door and she apparently spends most of her time next door at her boyfriend's and is there from, you know, like the wee hours of the morning. So anyway she, had said that she had come in real late and was asleep and so left the phone off the hook in another room so that when the school called that the line would be busy, you know. And so she wanted to.call and make sure that her mother hadn't gotten up and put the phone back-on the hook, that sort of thing. And I, I can't remember but I think had done the same thing basically, but anyway they both wanted? to use the phone. well I let them use the phone and I went downstairs and got, uh, borrowed the keys because I didn't, I didn't, had not driven myself that week, I'd rode with somebody else to, to, uh, Louisville from Memphis. So I went down and borrowed the keys to the car and, uh, when I got back upstairs I I told them, I said look, what I, and this is, I mean my M.O. is the same, every week I've been doing this like I said for 23 years, uh, and it's, it's so boring that, you know, you get into a rut of doing the, doing the same thing. And on Tuesdays the, I mean you know, in the daytime you can either sit there in the hotel and watch soap operas or youout. And I, you know, every Tuesday when I'm there I will get up and I'll either go up to the River Falls Mall or Greentree Mall or some, some of the stores there in Clarksville and, and, uh, that. And, and I just try to Jerry Lawler Statement Page Ten LAWLER (cont'd) kill the you know, kill the day there until 5:00 and it's time to drive to Evansville. And it's just a really boring, uh, day, you know. .So now these girls are, are there in my room and, and please believe me, I mean, you know I'm, I'm 43 years old, I'm the, you know, I've got two grown sons and I've, I've been fortunate to, I've been in this business for 23 years and this business has not changed, there has always been these type of girls around and there always will be. And and they, you know, I've been fortunate enough to, I, I don't drink, I don't go to clubs, I've never drank in my life, I don't smoke, I don't do any of that kind of stuff, I don't, I've always realized I had, I had, fortunately had a guy that broke me into the business named who I really had a lot of respect for and really admired. And he, he always told me, one of the main things he told me especially about clubs and that sort of thing, he said son, don't put, don't put yourself in a position to get, to be in trouble. If you go to clubs if you drink there's nothing good that can come out of it. You're going to run into somebody in there that's a drunk and he's want to going to want to test, hey here's a wrestler, let's see how tough you are, and he said it's going to be nothing but a problem, you know. And as I said I've been fortunate enough to, to be in this business for 23 years and rise to the top of my profession and become something -that, that very few other wrestlers have ever .1 been able to do. I, I am part owner of the, of the wrestling company simply because of the fact that, uh, the, the original promoter, and the original owner felt that my, my worth to the, to this company as a, as a wrestling, uh, performer was, was worth a part of the profits for me to, to stay with the company and so, uh, we made that deal about 15 years ago and, you know, I know how (inaudible), I mean the -business, this business is my life. And, and it's not only my life but it's the life of, you know, so many people that, that evolve around me. My mother is, you know, totally dependent on me, ex, uh, ex?wife, my two kids, this sort of thing. And I, you know, I know that I'm as I said I know this business Jerry Lawler Statement Page Eleven LAWLER (cont d) MCCALL LAWLER MCCAEL LAWLER MCCALL LAWLER MCCALL LAWLER too well to put mySelf in a position to endanger something like that. And, and, and immediately I was like, you know, I'm saying here's, here I got two girls in my motel room and I was, I'm getting out of here. So I went down and got the keys, they used the phone and I said girls, what About what time do you, about what time do you think that was, Jerry, when they were there WEll Just approximately. 10, 11 or 12, (inaudible) I would I would say probably 11, 11:30, something like that. But you're pretty sure they used the phones over there so that can be traced (inaudible) I oh absolutely, definitely know they used the phones (inaudible) 0K. Do you remember when A, another thing, another thing is that ordinarily, uh, you know I, as I said we all stay, we all stay at that, uh, at that Days Inn, all of the wrestlers. And, uh, the management has, have, they have known me for years and, and I'm not a part of, of, I've never been a part of, of what goes on there and, and I'm not going to deny that some of this stuff doesn't go on there. The girls come over to be with the wrestlers and, and that, that goes on. But, uh, you know, I have, I have not ever been a part of that and the management over there knows that and subsequently I have I've always been able to get a, a downstairs room on the first floor where I could drive right up to, to the door and, and, and, and there's just a little porch like, uh, there are, only the downstairs no smoking rooms have, have, uh, TV's with remote controls. WEll I mean, you know, that's a nice extra little thing when you consider the, the upstairs rooms don't have remote controls so it's just, you know, Jerry Lawler Statement Page TWelve LAWLER (cont'd) MCCALL IAWLER I always, they, they gave me that because they know that I'm, that I'm not going to have any girls in my room where there's going to be a lot of noise and they're going to get into complaints from any of the other, uh, people that are Spending the night. The rest of the wrestlers, all of the rest of the wrestlers they put on the second and third floor simply, I mean they put them basically away from the other guests and I wean, you know, it's a big hotel and they was, it's not usually that full on a, on Tuesday nights. So they have a little area where they put the wrestlers on the second and third floor. And, uh, I always get a room on the ground floor Jerry, what room do you think you were in back in (inaudible) well I know exactly what room I was in because the week before, uh, the week before I went in to check in and, and, uh, the girl said Jerrythe, uh, second floor, we don't have the, uh, (inaudible). well, and another.reason they the ground floor is they, you know, they don't usually give late checkouts on those and mine was the only one they give they give a late checkout and he, that, 'cause they wouldn't be able to rent that room the next day so she said, she said well the, is the manager over there. And I said I said why is this? And then she said well upset because one of the wrestlers, and, and certainly in our profession we certainly have our share of bogus guys that, that will mess up things for everybody concerned. Uh, and there was a guy named who for what, why, I mean, you know, why a, guys will mess.up when just doing right would do a lot better. Uh, this guy had stolen or kept a key. Uh, he had stayed there one time and he had kept a key and then he would.come back just instead of checking in he would go up and open the, you know, if the room was empty he would go up and Open the door and just stay there without ever checking in. So anyway the week before that the, uh, the maids had gone to clean up his room and the door was locked. And, and she looked at the Jerry Lawler Statement Page Thirteen LAWLER (cont'd) MCCALL LKWLER MCCALL LAWLER MCCALL LAWLER thing in the room and it showed it was supposed to be vacant. So she starts banging on the door and the door's still locked, she can't get it open. Finally she sees somebody move the curtains like this, so she.knows somebody's in there. So she called the manager, and said there is somebody in this room and it's supposed to be vacant. She.looks, supposed to be vacant. She comes up, knocks on the door and then she said well I'll tell you what, I'm going to stand right here until whoever's in there comes out. So finally opens the door and, uh, you know, and he's all apologetic, I meant to Check and a, you know, like big bogus story. So anyway that made upset with the wrestlers and she said, she had left word to the desk people all wrestlers upstairs and, you know, in, in the back. Or at least upstairs. So what room do you think you were in (inaudible) 0K, hey, I'm sorry. That's all right. Uh, I was in, I, when they, when they came there and they told me that, uh, she got to put you upstairs and I said well okay, since I'm here tonight and I said but this will be the laSt, I said, you know, I don't appreciate that because I'm not involved in that kind of stuff and, and I'll just stay somewhere else. I, I don't need to be around them anyway. So anyway they put me in Room 211 and, uh, fortunately there was a guy in Roo.., there was a guy in Room 210 who I found and now lives in Indianapolis, Indiana, uh, who was in the room right-next door to mine and he saw the girls arrive at my door, said he had his door open, saw the girls arrive at my door and saw the girls, and saw me leave first and go downstairs and then saw me and the girl leave, me and the girls all leave within a space of 10 minutes. Let me ask you this. At any time during that whole day did you have any sexual acts of any kind with either one of these two girls? Absolutely not. Jerry Lawler Statement Page Fourteen MCCAEL LAWLER MCCALL LAWLER MCCALL LAWLER Did they ever take their clothes off No, they NOthing, anything like that? No. OK. _So where did you all go from there? well, as I told the girls, I said girls, we, I, my, what'I do here every week is I go to the mall or I go to the stores and, and I said y'all are welcome to stay here at the hotel and go around and see whoever but I'm, you know, or you're welcome to go with me. So they went with me and, and as I said I didn't think one thing about it. I mean that, oh, I'm enjoying their-company, they're, uh, you know, I, one of the things that I've always and I guess I, I got it hearing Dick Clark say that, uh, uh, if people would ask him how he stayed young looking and that sort of thing and he said, he said I attribute it to the fact that I hang around with young peOple. And I've always tried to, you know, as I said I'm 43 years old but I'm in a business that depends on a, appealing to all ages and eSp.., and especially kids and just like Hulk Began or something like that. And you want to be able to relate to kids. And, and, uh, you know, I'm, I'm a, I'm around them all the time and I'm the chairman of Special Olympics in, in Memphis, you know. I'm, I'm the chairman of the board of, of, uh, Raymond Skinner Handicapped Center in Nemphis where, you know, it's, it's a, uh, several hundred mentally retarded kids. Uh, I'm on, I'm on the Sheriff's Front Line Against Drugs where it's, uh, all Memphis athletes where we go out to the schools and, and talk to school kids about the dangers of drugs and the, and you know, preach to them about staying in school. And I, you know, I didn't think a thing in the world about being around them and they, we went to I, I think the, I mean I don't even remember exactly where we went. we went to the mall, we went to some stores and, and, uh, probably got something to eat. And then they said well we got to be back in Louisville by, their, their school was out Jerry Lawler Statement Page Fifteen LAWLER (cont'd) MCCADL LAWLER (Side A of Tape 1 Ends.) SCHILLER LAWLER at 2 something and the, so they said, you know, we got to be back over there and I said well, who's going to come and get you. And they said nobody. And I said well I'm not taking you girls home. And they said well, just please drop us off at Louisville Gardens. So here I went, crossed the bridge, dropped them off at Louisville Gardens, still not thinking a thing about it. That was the last I saw of them. And then, uh, as I-said that was in May. The next week they were right back at the matches, everything's peaches and cream and hi, how are you doing, you know, this sort of thing. And, and they're there every week up until I hear this and 0K, tell about the second episode that was mentioned to you, uh, the deal in July over here that they, explain that situation. OK. New all right, uh, that was some time in July and I don't, I don't have the exact date but I'm sure I can find it. Uh, I I flew into, I flew into Louisville and had to fly out early, very early the next morning. Uh, back to MEmphis. And so I wasn't booked in Evansville that particular week so I was flying back to Memphis early the next morning. well OK, we're on Side 2 of the, the tape. It's now 1030. The delay was just an ending of the tape. As I, as, as I said it was, it was some time in July and I had, uh, flown into Louisville, uh, got a cab to the matches and then after the matches as I said without even talking to anybody I just, I just pick up my bags, and when you go out of the back door of Louisville Gardens there are literally I'd say at least a hundred people and maybe more than that, that are waiting in the back alley. The police will escort you out and and escort you to your, to your car or, or whatever ride you have. And, but all the fans, you know, that's where they congregate to get autographs, to see you, to be close, touch you, that sort of thing. Everybody Jerry Lawler Statement Page Sixteen LAWLER (cont'd) FEMALE MCCALL FEMALE MCCALL FEMALE SCHILLER LAWLER wants a hug, everybody wants a handshake and a autograph. And, uh, there are as I said, you know, and after wrestling here almost on a weekly basis for 23 years I know a lot of these people by, on a first name basis. Ver.., very, very few of them do I know their last name, unfortunately, but, and I probably couldn't remember them if I did because I only see them once a week. But there's, there's a lady who sits at ringside named and she's probably maybe 50 years old and, and she has a young daughter named and they're all friends with and and there's another girl named who they're, they're just sort of like a little running group there. And I think would, would ride to the matches with, excuse me, with most of the time. Uh, I don't know if she came with, I, I act.., I think she came with her mother because, uh, uh, told me also since all this took place that, that, uh, her mother was what we refer to affectionately as an arena rat, that she, her mother, she told me her mother used to be engaged to a wrestler named . _Mr. MCCall? Uh?huh? are you Mr. MCCall? Yes, uh?huh? You have an emergency phone call. OK, the pause is attorney Tim MCCall leaving the room. The time now is 1032. we're going to continue the tape at Mr. MCCall's request. Uh, anyway had informed me that her mother used to (inaudible), and she adamantly believed this, she said Oh, my mother used to be engaged to . well, uh, I mean you know, I knew wrestled him many times and knew him personally. As a matter of fact he and my best friend in the world, my manager at the time, were both killed in a car accident in, uh, in 1976 coming back from, we had just, and I had Jerry Lawler Statement Page Seventeen LAWLER (cont'd) SCHILLER LAWLER SCHILLER IAWLER just wrestled in MEmphis and it was such a tragic thing because was supposed to be riding with me and who had called earlier that day and conned a ride with because he didn't want to drive, he said come on, let me ride with you. Anyway they wound up taking his own car and on the way back from MEmphis, uh, they were involved in an accident, a drunk guy had, had hit a bridge and was just sitting sideways in the road with no lights on and .'nem hit him and was killed, was killed and Excuse me just a second. I just wanted to mention that Mr. MCCall had just returned. All right, go ahead. And anyway, uh, so.I knew, you know, I went to his funeral and I knew him well and I knew his wife and so any, I.mean was married and, and so obviously not engaged to, to this lady, you know. But adamantly believes and her mother has told her that she was engaged to . Uh?huh. Uh, and she was a typical arena rat at the wrestling matches. Uh, but anyway back to the July incident, uh, I, I flew in and met with, after the matches I took my, got my bags, went out the back door, met with uh, and her daughter and, you know, peeple was just all around and I said I, I need a ride. And, and basically all you have to do is just say I need a ride over to, uh, the Days Inn, can anybody give me ride? And there will 15 people beca.., simply because they want, it makes them feel important to be around you. I mean you know, uh, and I, I know the feeling because I'm, I'm a big fan of other things too and it was, you know, I was, we were talking about the Cleveland Browns yesterday, you know, if I was around the Cleveland Browns and I said, one of them said could I take you to the hotel I'd say yes, please, I would, uh, be glad to, you know, because you just want to be around to talk to them, that sort of thing. well, uh, and her daughter Jerry Lawler Statement Page Nineteen LAWLER (cont'd) MCCALL LAWLER MCCALL SCHWEICKART MCCALL IAWLER and and are in, as I said in car and they, they leave, they they didn't follow us to the hotel or anything. And, uh, and while I was there I asked and I said, I said, you know, I got a flight out and it was like 6:00 or 6:30 or something the next morning. And, uh, I said is there any way I could get, uh, she, 'cause she told me she had to work early the next morning, I said is there any way I could get a ride to the airport. So she said yeah, I'll come by, you know, She (inaudible), she was acting like it would be a big inconvenience but I'm sure she, you know, she was not too put out. But she said she'll come by and give me a ride to the airport the next morning real early. So they dropped me at, uh, and, and, uh, dropped me off at the hotel. .I checked in, I don't remember what room or anything, but anyway I, I mean if I saw it I'd know exactly what room it was in, in looking at the place but I don't remember the room number. But I checked in and, uh, that was it. I didn't see or hear from anybody, anybody at all that night. And, uh, the next morning uh, you know, I?was up, I had a wake up call. I got up and showed up. And I was already waiting up by the, I'd gone up and checked out and everything and I was already waiting up by the, oh, by the office when she came and picked me and took me the I mean to the airport. Now And that was that. To the best of our knowledge that's what's been told to him, are two episodes that he is supposed to have done something and both, if there's another one we don't know about it. And Where did you hear about that (inaudible) Who had told you about those two? Uh, I, I guess, I mean I'm not sure, I think, I guess . I think that he said that, I think he said he had talked to you Jerry Lawler Statement Page Twenty IAWLER (cont?d) MCCALL IAWLER SCHWEICKART LAWLER MCCALL LAWLER guys and that you wanted me to come in and, and talk to you about it. And, uh, at least that, that was I believe what told me. And, uh, at least that, that was I believe what told me. And I said man, I'll be, you know, I'll be glad to, to come in and talk to them. And then what happened I think a, a week ago Friday he called me and, and I told him I didn't want him talking until I could talk to him. Then when I talked to you all, you and you last Mbnday, you know, you said you were going to present the case today and y'all were going to Indiana. I didn't know that there was any room for talking until I saw you on Friday night. (Inaudible), we do need to, to go and talk to him if that's the situation. If there's other charges, I don't know, he'll, he'll be glad to answer them but he, we don't know what they are. Now tell them whether or not you had any contact as what this girl and what the girl has told you. Subsequently so they know what she said about at least one of the episodes. 0K. Whidh girl? Uh You tell them. . Uh, well I, the first thing when, when, when I, you know, the first, immediately after I heard from, from I just thought that, uh, uh, I mean I was flabbergasted, I could, I, I really didn't comprehend the seriousness of it because I I, I didn't feel like there had been anything done that could be, that could warrant this kind of a, you know, serious situation. And I said this has got to be something that can be cleared up. So the first thing I did I called a, you know, I tried to ahold of . And, because, like I said these, I, you know, I know the girls and I've talked with them a hundred times and I didn't think anything about it. So, uh, but, and she had, she had given me her number Jerry Lawler Statement Page Twenty?one LAWLER (cont'd) in the past, she had written down her number and, and, uh, and given it to me and I thought I had it so I started searching all through my house and briefcases and stuff and I didn't have it so apparently I'd thrown it away. So anyway the first person I called, uh, I called, I did have the, number. And so I called and, uh, she gave me, she, or her daughter gave me number. So anyway I called them. And her mother answered the phone and I said, uh, this is Jerry Lawler and I said I have a, you know, I've been getting some real disturbing reports from some people that, that, uh, are saying that, has said that, uh, you know, that she and I have done some, had some sort of a sexual liaison or something, you know. And she said well, yeah, is that not true? And I said no, ma'am, it's certainly not true at all and, and, uh, and, and I said well why, you know, why is, why is she saying this stuff. And so we talked for, you know, we talked, we talked for quite a while a, about, uh, try.., uh, me especially trying to figure out why, why these accusations could be made. And then, uh, she, well she told me, uh, she told me sort of one version of it but then later told me another version of it. The mother first told me that, she said well I caught messing with this boy up the street, down the street. And she said, uh, I was getting onto her and, and, and when I was, when I was, she, she said when I was getting into her about that she come out and said well, uh, that guy's not the only guy I've been with, I've been with other people before too. And she said she mentioned you and she mentioned another guy and somebody else. And I said my goodness, I, I can't even you know, why would she do that? And so anyway subsequently, and she, she went on to, you know, tell me a lot of stuff about she, she said well, uh, she said, you know, don't always tell me the truth. She said that's why I'm, I'm not, I haven't done anything on hearsay. She said, you know, has lied to me before about stuff. And she said I know that when aro.., at home she's my little 13 year old girl, you know, my little baby, she's called her. She said but I;know that Jerry Lawler Statement Page Twenty?two LAWLER (cont'd) when she's not at home she likes to try to act big and, and this sort of stuff. And then she mentioned getting to running with the wrong people and, and, and, uh, she said, you know, she just came out with a lot of stuff with the fact that she, then she came out with the fact that, uh, uh, well I, she, she didn't actually volunteer the information but that, that had told me that has got, got two twin brothers that are either 17 or 18. One's named and one's named . And, and told me that, uh, that they had caught sleeping with or having sex with . So, uh, anyway their mother confirmed that on the phone and, uh, and she said, you know, this is, she said these, they, they get to running around with the wrong people and they get to doing this stuff and then they get to liking it and she said I know, you know, that this is, this is bad. She said that she don't need to hanging around with and she said nothing but a she said nothing but a liar and a troublemaker. well then, uh, subsequently I've talked, I talked with and, and same thing. I said why are you, you know, why would you say this kind of stuff. well, she said well I didn't really say it. She said uh, she said I didn't volunt.., is your, she, I don't know how she put it but in other words she said what happened was this. Uh, who I've never met in my life, I wouldn't know him if he were sitting right there but I've heard of him. He, he apparently used to be sister?s boyfriend and he's apparently 25 or 26 years old. And I remember in the past saying something about this guy either messing with her or trying to mess with her. well he's no longer her, he's no longer her sister's boyfriend but he is always around and he's this guy that's sort of like obsessed with her. And, uh, he's like, she, she called, she says he, I mean her exact words about him was that he's just kind of like an overprotective nut. And, and so this guy would, will every Tuesday night he'd come, he drives a white car with these like neon lights underneath it. Every Tuesday night Jerry Lawler Statement Page Twenty~three LAWLER (cont'd) his car is sitting out there behind Louisville Gardens. He will come there and like just watch . He doesn't go inside to the matches. And he hates the fact that she goes to the matches. Uh, and and, bet he just comes there to like watch her, and make sure, you know, make sure she's not doing anything, I guess. So, uh, and the, said that, the girl said that it's sort of like common knowledge among friends and everything that something had gone on in the past, doesn't really I mean I don't think likes the guy or anything like that but he has tried to do something with her in the past and, and is, is like obsessed with her. well he, he was the guy who actually caught having sex with somebody down the street, is what said. He like came up into this guy's house and kicked the door in and caught them together. well he then went to mother and, uh, uh, first of all he, he started screaming at and, uh, uh, was going to beat this guy up or something like that (inaudible), this is what was told to me. Anyway he started screaming at ranting and raving to her and so to either get back at him or to shut him up or whatever she, that's when she told him well, this is not the only guy I've been with, I've been with other people before so get off my back, you know, that kind of of thing. well, he then went to mother and told her and, you know, I've never met mother. I, all I've seen is and at the matches and, you know, I'm, I'm not, I'm not saying that they're not, they're, you know, I mean, I mean you know they're just, maybe not the highest caliber of class people or whatever. Obviously if they got a little weird situation going there and, you know, doing stuff with any.., but then again like I said a lot of these girls obviously say they're having sex with peOple that they're not, you know. But is claiming to have, be having sex with brother and, and mother is admitting it and saying I've told her (inaudible) and all this kind of stuff. I Jerry Lawler Statement Page Twenty~four MCCALL LAWLER MCCALL LAWLER MCCALL LAWLER MCCALL LAWLER MCCALL LAWLER MCCALL LAWLER SCHWEICKART MCCALL LAWLER Jerry, hold on just one minute. Has admitted to you that whatever she's told, whoever's she told about you having sex with her here in Louisville is a lie Yes And she told you Yes, she has And admitted that she lied about that. Yes. Did she say what her motive was for lying about that? No, she didn't. I mean she just, I think it was, or she didn't actually just say why she did it, she just implied that, uh, it was the guy putting pressure on her or something. See then What about the one over in Indiana? She never did deny that, I mean she still says that that's the truth to the best of your knowledge? - Uh, no she, I mean it's not like, it wasn't like I was saying, you know, uh, I mean it wasn't like I was badgering her or questioning her or anything, she just didn't, she didn't even, she didn't really talk about it. OK I mean it's like, uh, it would be like if, if you and I were real good friends and, and, and would talk every week when I called her (inaudible), she wouldn't even talk about that, it was just like she started talking about, uh, you know, what's, gosh, what I did or where I got to wrestle next and stuff like that, you know, just, and I'm trying to, I'm saying you know When did Like to ask, answer Lisa, (inaudible) 0K, sure. Jerry Lawler Statement Page Twentyefive SCHWEICKART LAWLER SCHWEICKART LAWLER MCCALL LAWLER MCCALL LAWLER OK, when, when did you talk to her, she (inaudible) I've talked to her sev.., on, several times. She's called me, her mother's called me, I've called them. Uh, I, I initiated the first call . When did you initiate that first call? I don't know exactly the exact date but it would have been after, uh, you know, after I heard about the, I guess from So you're talking about, about what, a month ago?. Oh no, just like a week ago. About a week ago? Yeah. No that's, (inaudible) basically about a week ago. Uh, but anyway then the .told mother about catching her with this guy. And, and mother either not necessarily, uh, I don't know if she didn't believe him or she just, uh, like, you know, is, is, I'm not saying that She can, certainly condones that conduct or that, or whatever it is, whatever being the case I don't think she believed this guy. And so, uh, she didn't, she didn't do anything about it. I mean, you know, she didn't call the police or she didn?t do anything. I think she had a talk with 2. And, uh, told her that she would not be allowed to go not allowed to go back to wrestling and not to be around and that sort of thing. well apparently that didn't satisfy because that's when he went, he supposedly went to Louisville Gardens and claimed to be a relative or a custodial parent of . And he went to the, the managers there and, and he was really pitching a big fit saying oh, these wrestlers are molesting this little girl and that sort of thing. And then apparently called the police. And the, that is,.is what said, that he was the one that, that, uh, that called you all. And so, uh, you know I, and I, and Jerry Lawler Statement Page TWenty-six LAWLER (cont'd) SCHWEICKART LAWLER SCHWEICKART LAWLER MCCALL LAWLER MCCAEL it was also said that that, uh, he said something about that he would, he would make sure that didn't never get to go back to wrestling again and that he would fix Jerry Lawler or get Jerry Lawler or something like that, I mean. And (Inaudible) Uh, I think, I think either that or Told you that (inaudible) Yeah, that he, that he had said that to somebody, either to them or somebody and, uh (Inaudible) But his, his, his big problem was with her going to wrestling. He didn't like for her to be around the wrestling. Uh, so anyway, uh, I'm trying to think of who Let, let me say this now for the record. we, you know, we're coming here in good faith to tell you what we know about it from what people have told him. He would, I, I just want y'all to know, if there is any other type of allegations against him he would at least, and we're, and we're not prepared for this but if y'all got anything else if we're not on the right track what these two are supposed to be then please ask him now so he can answer them right now. I don't want, I don't want it to come up a week from now well, we've got an allegation that somebody says he did something at the Seelbach HOtel in June and y'all didn't answer that question, because if there's something else hit him with it now so he can tell you what the hell the deal is. Because it's hard getting him in town and all that, you know. I, I'm not trying to find out exactly what your situation is. we think we know it but if there's more please ask him about yes, no, or I didn't do it or I did it. Because he denies to me having sex with either one of these girls and, uh, you know Jerry Iawler Statement Page Twenty?seven SCHILLER LAWLER SCHILLER LAWLER SCHILLER MCCALL SCHILLER LAWLER SCHILLER LAWLER MCCALL LAWLER OK. well, I kind of have to go back there a little bit so you, when you had called 'and talked her to the first time. Uh~huh. OK, and she had, you said, you know, why, why are you bringing this up or what, you know, why did you say and she had mentioned something about kicking in the door and finding her in bed with this other guy and that, that's when She told him that she's been, she's been having sex with several different people Uh-huh? And, but you never really finished that part of it apparently, she was getting to tell you Who were the other people (inaudible) WEll (inaudible), I don't think, he didn't actually say that your name was mentioned at that point but Yeah, she did, she did say (Inaudible) That she, she.said me andwrestler named she mentioned him. And the the funny thing is as I said I've talked to these girls a bunch of times and, and, uh, they, they don't have any qualms-at all about talking about sex. Uh?huh. It, I think it's, it makes them feel, you know, unfortunately teenagers want to grow up too fast and I think that, you know, that makes them feel grown up. well she, she, uh, had, uh, told me once before, and this, and she told me this, uh, bef.., uh, even before Nay. Bec.., and I mean, and, and I realize now why she, you know, why she was telling me this stuff, she, and I don't know if it's true but she was, she was telling me that she had had sex before. In other words trying to, trying to imply, you know, like if, if Jerry Lawler Statement Page Twenty-eight LAWLER (cont'd) MCCALL LAWLER you and I do some thing it won't be the my first time, you know. And she said that there was a man named who owned a painting business, uh, right in their neighborhood right across the street from her or something. This guy's like 39 years old and, uh, she said that they had been having sex for like over a year. And he had used her as a babysitter. And, uh, uh, and then, and then some other people said that he, he was like real friendly towards her and bought her a ring and promised her car when she was 16 and this sort of stuff, you know. But as I said it's just that, you know, I have no proof of that other than the fact that I always felt like she was just saying that to try to, try to seem more or seem more sexually, uh What about this other wrestler, Have you talked to him to find out whether or not he says anything ever happened between them? I, I did, I did talk to him and he, he said no, not in, no way. He's, he's married and got, uh, you know, two little kids, a, a one year old, uh, baby and a, and a two year old or something like that. I don't, I, really I don't, I, I know . very, he is like, uh, he lives here in Louisville and he's what we would refer to as a just really a, basically a part?time guy. I mean they, would book him, call him to book him maybe as a fill~in something or something like that maybe. being used on a full-time basis. And I, I just didn't know him well at all, I mean don't know him well at all, you know. Uh, but I, I called him up and I said, uh, you know, I said have you heard that, uh, uh, and are saying that they've had sex with you and me? And he said no, I mean he was really shocked, you know. He said heck no, not, he had not heard one word about it at all. And so I said well they are. I said, uh, I know for a fact that, you know, that, that they have told the police this. And he's going oh, my gosh, he said this is, he said this is horrible. I mean this, he, he literally got, uh, I mean he was about to get physically sick. He said I'm, I'm sick Jerry Lawler Statement Page TWenty?nine MCCALL IAWLER MCCALL IANLER at my stomach. You know and, and, and I know the feeling but I mean, you know, I, you know, I mean I can't impress upon you guys enough. I mean this has, this week has been like being in hell for me. It's like, and, and I know this is your, you know, this is your guys job and everything like that and you probably see a hundred or a thousand of these cases whatever. I mean, you know, but this is, this is my life and it's, of course it's life and life and all of that too, you know, but I mean this is things that affects people's lives forever, you know. And everyb. . everybody that's connected with them. And, you know, I know, I know how he felt when, you know, when all of a sudden you're hit with an allegation like that that, you know, that I know how' serious it can be. It's, it's, I mean it's just completely devastatin . And so, uh, I spoke to him that one time and, and have tried to call him twice since then and have not gotten any answer, I've not, you know, not spoken to him since. OK. I don't know, you know, what he's done since then. Did you have the opportunity to talk to (inaudible) I, I did talk to one time. Uh, and was just a, ?is a who.., is a whole different ball game from . is, well you know, I mean you guys are, have obviously talked to he?. seems like an intelligent, bright, uh, you know, girl with, with, that comes from obviously a, an unfortunate situation, you know. But she seems to me like somebody that has, could could have a lot gOing for them and, and, uh, she has, at least my impression, it seemed like she was sort of looking for a father figure, you know, she never had a father. Uh, on the other hand is just sort of like, she's sort of like the typical, at least in my dealings with her or opinion of Jerry Lawler Statement Page Thirty LAWLER (cont MCCALL LAWLER MCCALL LAWLER MCCALL LAWLER her, she's just sort of like the typical, more like a juvenile delinquent type person, you'know. Uh, like a No, that's all right. we, (inaudible) give your impression, I don't know either one of them, I well yeah, I mean (Inaudible) And I don't, I don't know her well but I mean I just know from what I hear from her and what, the way I see her act. I mean, you know, and it's, she has, uh, I mean I've had other guys, other wrestlers say that she would expose her breasts to them and stuff and, and their, wear short shorts and pull them, you know, pulled up and expose her buttocks and would cuss like a sailor and. this sort of stuff and I know, you know, that she's, had, she's having a lot of problems in school and that sort of thing. [m . did that conversation go that you had with her? well (inaudible), I, I asked her the same thing. I said what, I said, oh God, I, I mean that of all the (inaudible), and believe me because I, I mean, you know, my life is at stake in this I, I feel like. You know, I just, all, all of a sudden this hits me. And so, uh, you know, when, whenever I talked with them I I was just hoping that they would admit that this didn't happen, you know. So I, I taped the conversation. And so, uh,_the only conversation that I didn't tape was with because she, she called, I mean with, uh, was because she called me and said that, uh, uh, well she said a couple of, I I said, I said why is, uh, why are y'all saying all this stuff. And she's, and, and she's like sort of upset with and, it seemed like because I guess, you know, it's she had been trying to call and her mother won't let her talk to her and that sort of thing. She said oh, Jerry Lawler Statement Page Thirtyeone LAWLER (cont'd) SCHWEICKART LAWLER MCCALL IAWLER (Side of tape ends.) LAWLER SCHILLER LAWLER blabbed and blabbed her mouth to about about some stuff and that's what started this whole thing. And I said well, you know that you and I have never done anything. And she said I know it. And I said why didn't, why, why don't you tell them that, why don't you say it? And she, and she said well, my mother said that, that, uh, she said oh, my mother is scared that, uh, I'm trying to think of exactly the way she put it. But she implied, she said that you all had told her mother that if she didn't go through with this and didn't see that this was prosecuted that that could be taken away from her for her being an unfit mother. So, I mean that's the way that conversation went. And I said they can't do that, I mean I'm just, you know, I was they can't do that, and nobody's going to do that. . Did you ever call or did call you back? well I, I called first and then, and then called me back one time. And I only spoke with her on two, on two occasions. And that's all. OK, how about her mom (inaudible) did you talk to her? Uh, I talked to her mother, uh, I, I talked to her mother at the same time the world wrestling Federation which Vince MCMahan had (inaudible) OK, (inaudible). OK, we're continuing Tape #2 now, or actually this is the beginning of Tape It's now 1110, same location, same people present. Mr. Lawler, before when we were talking you said you talked to both girls since you initially heard these allegations trying to discover, you know, really what was going on and where all this was coming from, is that correct? Right. Jerry Lawler Statement Page Thirty-two SCHILLER LAWLER SCHILLER MCCAEL LAWLER SCHILLER MCCALL LAWLER MCCALL LAWLER OK, and you said you had the opportunity to tape the conversation with and that you didn't, unfortunately didn't have the opportunity.to tape the one with is that correct? Right. OK. You'd also, had just told and, and, Mr. McCall had mentioned that during those conversations you had with that she had said that the whole thing was a lie. Net, well go ahead. (Inaudible) well, but she well she said that, uh, uh, I think when, the last tire that I talked to her, uh, her mother had said that they were going to contact an attorney. 'And, uh, and so, uh, because her mother and, her mother had, her mother was just saying that, you know, she didn't want to go through this, she didn't want to put through this and, and, and that sort of thing. And, uh, she had just said well, she was going to contact an attorney and just see what she And you had mentioned that when you had talked to her that she said I said why don't you just She wanted I said why don't you just tell them that it's, that we didn't do anything, that you know, and I told her, I said you did not come to, uh, my hotel room and, you knowtell these people that. And, uh, I mean you know, I'm being totally honest with you and, and she said, she said well is that what you want me to tell them? And I said well I was, just want to tell them that, I want you tell thenlthat we didn't do anything because I, we didn't do any, you didn't come over there. And so she said well, that, uh, she said that you guys had come out and, and, and, uh, she said, Jerry Lawler Statement Page Thirty-three IAWLER (cont'd) MCCALL SCHWEICKART LAWLER SCHILLER MCCALL SCHILLER MCCALL SCHILLER MCCALL SCHILLER IAWLER MCCALL SCHILLER MCCALL SCHILLER she said that, uh, hollered, I mean she said that you had hollered at her and, and said that she couldn't change her story and, uh, and made her cry and, and, uh, that she had said, she, she said that you had told her that what she said she was going to have to stick with. OK. When did you speak to her? That was yesterday, I believe. 0h, yesterday, 0K. What we, what was yesterday? Sunday. OK. WEll, I'm sorry, it was Saturday. Saturday? 0K. Saturday. well I guess what I'm getting at is that, you know, you had said that you talked to her and that, and that she had mentioned at one point in time when you were in the conversation that it was a lie. And that you also had mentioned that you'd recorded that. Do you have that available. Uh Yeah, we, we have all of that. Did you bring that you, the fact that she said it was a lie. Uh, I can, I haven't listened to them yet, I told him to bring them in. When he called me a week ago Friday I told him if anybody contacted him or if he contacted anybody that he should record their conversations. (Inaudible) But, but you do have that, you got a tape where she said this is_a lie. Jerry Lawler Statement Page Thirty~four LAWLER MCCALL LAWLER MCCALL LAWLER- MCCALL LAWLER SCHWEICKART MCCALL LAWLER SCHILLER MCCALL SCHILLER LAWLER SCHILLER LAWLER SCHILLER LAWLER SCHILLER MCCALL LAWLER I think SO. Did she, did she use the term (inaudible) No, she did not say this is a lie. well was She did not say that word. well was that your impression of it or what? (Inaudible) well actually what we just want to know is if you have the tape (inaudible) we have the tapes. We have, uh, we have, uh, how may tapes did you bring? (Inaudible) briefcase. Uh, I think there's a total of three. Three? OK. Do you (inaudible) No, but I'll get them for you in a few minutes, they're over in the office. Ybu all can come over and get them (inaudible). 0K. Another thing too, when, you said you didn't have I, this was the situation in May that took place over in, in Indiana. said you didn't have a car and you had to borrow one? Uh~huh. Whose car did you borrow that day? My son's. What kind of car is that? It's a Chevrolet Blazer. OK. (Inaudible) your son's? OK. was he here in Sellersburg (inaudible) No, (inaudible) Jerry Lawler Statement Page Thirty-five SCHILLER MCCALL SCHILLER LAWLER SCHILLER LAWLER SCHILLER MCCALL LAWLER SCHILLER LAWLER SCHILLER LAWLER SCHILLER LAWLER SCHILLER LAWLER SCHILLER MCCALL OK. And you said there was a, a guy in Room 210 that apparently was there and, and was some witness or something? Uh?huh. Who, who was that, do you know? His name is OK, have, and have you talked to Apparently you have. Yes. Do you have any kind touch with him? (Inaudible) phone number? Yes, I can get his phone number. Some of this stuff I still have it, it's in MEmphis. UK. New in, in the situation where you said they had, they had cut school, had you, had they, had you discussed cutting school with them prior to that? No. OK, you, at no time did you discuss that with them? No. OK. So you didn't have a clue they were going to school. No. UK. They didn't say we'll cut school tomorrow and then come see you. No. OK, I thought you might have said that. I thought that you, a, you said the night before that they said they were going to cut school Jerry Lawler Statement Page Thirty?six LAWLER SCHILLER MCCALL LAWLER SCHILLER LAWLER SCHILLER LAWLER SCHILLER IAWLER SCHILLER IAWLER SCHILLER MCCALL LAWLER MCCALL SCHILLER LAWLER MCCALL SCHILLER LAWLER I don't, I, I don't think they actually said they were going to cut school, they just said that we're going to try to come to the the hotel tomorrow. OK. OK. And then they just showed up. Yeah. OK. You didn't, you didn't go by, you didn't pick them up and bring them over to No. In, in front of Louisville Gardens? No. OK. I dropped them off in front of Louisville Gardens. OK. But you'd never picked them up there. No. OK. Do you know how they can get hold of or her mother? Is it (inaudible) I've got, I've got her number too, and OK. I might be talking to her myself (inaudible) (Inaudible) Yes, I will. OK. And you said you guys went shopping that day when you were in Indiana, is that right? Well, probably not exactly shopping because I don't think I bought anything. But I mean just walking around the stores Jerry Lawler Statement Page Thirty?seven MCCALL LAWLER MCCALL LAWLER MCCALL LAWLER SCHILLER MCCALL SCHILLER MCCALL LAWLER SCHILLER LAWLER SCHILLER LAWLER SCHILLER OK, what, where did you all go to? I honestly don't remember. I I, my,-my, uh, uh, my usual route that I take is like, uh, I go to Greentree Mall, uh, River Falls Mall andalways go to a store at, to a Value City to get a, a certain kind of washing detergent that they have a unbelievable buy on there. OK So that's (Inaudible) I mean at least they had, they had it, they had it there one time and, and, uh, uh, this, like Fresh Start detergent, they had, they was like huge things for like $3.00 and in MEmphis it's like $12.00 and so I, I, every, every time I've gone by, I've gone back there I bought like three of them so I've gone back there to see if they ever had any more of them. OK. When did you talk with The first time or last time or Yes, both I, I, I really don't know the exact date. I just (inaudible) Uh, and I, but I may have it, I may have it written down. All, all of these conversations took place this past week. 0K, did you tape any of those conversations? Yes. OK. So who all do you have taped, taped conversations with? (Inaudible) Uh, with, uh, with and with mother. 0K. (3 Jerry Lawler Statement Page Thirty-eight SCHWEICKART LAWLER SCHILLER LAWLER MCCALL LAWLER MCCALL LAWLER MCCALL LAWLER SCHILLER LAWLER SCHILLER said there that you had.called one time and talked to and her mother but did you not tape that conversation? No, I I don't think I did. I'm not sure. OK. I may, it may, I may have. Her mother, have you guys talked to her mother? (Inaudible) I mean I, like I said I've never met her, I've never met mother. But she just was like not very talkative. But, uh, yeah, that sort of thing, you know, she just, is the way she came across on the phone and, and, uh, uh, she, the only thing that she I think indicated was that, uh, she had talked to mother and was going to do whatever mother decided to do or something. OK. Uh That's when then, then after that is when called back and said that she should, oh, man, my mother went off. And I said what are you talking about? And then she said, she said oh, man, she got mad. And I said about what? And she said, then she said well actually, my mother didn't get so mad and she said my aunt, my aunt was there and aunt got mad and got my mother all upset. was they mad because you called them or-mad over the girl making an allegation or what? No, mad, I think mad because I called them. And, uh, uh, because she said her aunt said oh, you shouldn't, you shouldn't be talking to him. And, uh When was that that you talked to her and her mother? That would have been this weekend? No, it would've been earlier on. OK, earlier last week. Jerry Lawler Statement Page Thirtyenine LAWLER SCHILLER IAWLER MCCALL LAWLER MCCALL LAWLER MCCALL LAWLER MCCALL SCHWEICKART LAWLER SCHWEICKART Yeah. Uh, I'm trying to think of what else said. well that was, that was when, uh, I said well you know, why did she get mad and then she said well, uh, she's mad 'oause you called, she said y'all shouldn't, y'all shouldn't be talking to him. And I said that's, that's when I had, I had said, I said well why, you know, why, and why are y'all saying this stuff? I said well I, I'm.mad because, you know, y'all are, y'all are telling these stories about me and I said you know that you and I have never done anything. And she said I know it but, and I said well why don?t you tell that. That's when she said well they told my mother that if they didn't, if She didn't prosecute or go forward with this thing and that, that, uh, they would say that she was an unfit mother and take her kids away from her. You, and, but this is the conversation you have on tape. Yeah. (Inaudible), you might have it on, I don't know if you have it on tape I don't think I have that one on tape. That's where, that's, uh I wiSh you did. She had, she come, she went into, in, in, uh, uh, she left her house and called from a pay phone. well I know but you've got the tape recorder, why didn't you have it on? I know but I, I I, I answered the phone downstairs and I just, I wasn't either, either (inaudible) OK. But you don't think that you taped the initial one when (inaudible) I may have. I'm not sure. OK. Where were you when made those calls? Jerry Lawler Statement Page Forty LAWLER SCHILLER IAWLER SCHILLER MCCALL LAWLER MCCALL LAWLER SCHILLER MCCALL SCHILLER LAWLER SCHILLER LAWLER SCHILLER LAWLER SCHILLER MCCALL LAWLER At my house. were, let me ask you this, were, were there ever any other times other than one time in Indiana that either of these girls or together or otherwise have been in any of the hotel rooms that you've have been in? Never. OK. So you're saying that when, when you were at this Days Inn down there this little girl never came into that hotel She did not Or I, did she know what room you were in? (Inaudible), I don't think that, not that I know of, I don't know. OK. So you're saying that in June and I think we think it was in July (inaudible), June. OK, how about in June? Do you recall any situations in June where they may have come to your No. To your hotel on Arthur Street No. Either one of them or both of them never came, never came knocking on your door or nothing NO. Never showed up. 0K. were you even in that hotel in June, do you know? WOuld you have been there or I think I've only, I've, in, in any recent memory I think I've only stayed at that Jerry Lawler Statement Page Forty?one IAWLER (cont'd) MCCALL LAWLER MCCALL SCHILLER IANLER SCHILLER MCCALL IAWLER MCCALL LAWLER MCCALL LAWLER SCHILLER IAWLER SCHILLER LAWLER SCHILLER IAWLER SCHILLER hotel twice. Because I only stay there if I have a if I'm flying in and out. And that's not, that's not (inaudible) WOuld there be a way for us to find that out - Sure. And you can show it, though? WOuld it have been in June, (inaudible) been in June? I don't know that. I don't, I really don't. But you know for sure that you were in July, is that correct? I, I'm saying July, was it in June or July? (Inaudible) I don't know, I, I really don't know when it was. Do you know (inaudible) I just, I, some, somewhere and I, and I think it was from uh, I heard the July date. OK. I don't know. OK. But when you were on Arthur Street, do you know if you've ever been here (inaudible) No. 0K. And the only time that you drove anyplace (inaudible), do you, how, how did they get to your place, do you know? (Inaudible) (Inaudible) OK, that you could, they, you didn't ask them, they didn't tell you? No. OK, and that you had taken them shopping in Jerry Lawler Statement Page Forty?two LAWLER SCHILLER SCHILLER IAWLER SCHILLER LAWLER SCHILLER IAWLER SCHILLER MCCALL LAWLER MCCALL SCHWEICKART MCCALL SCHWEICKART LAWLER MCCALL And I did, I did, uh, uh, I, I remember because when, you know, when I, the first thing that came to my mind was when I saw them I figured maybe that, uh, or somebody like was with them. Uh, but, you know, they wanted to use the phone and then, and then I went downstairs and I didn't see anybody, I, you know, I didn't see So they did, they did use your phone Yes, they used the phone Do you know who they were talking to? They called their house OK Tb see if the line was busy. OK. But did they ever have a conversation with anybody? No. OK. (Inaudible) well he, I'm not sure he knows and he, did you leave part of the time while they were up there? Yeah, I did leave part of the time while they were up there. Well, I mean we don't know who they talked to there, would there be a way to trace however many phone calls they made? Some hotels (inaudible) Right That they supposedly used your phone at least twice. Yes. well, you know, we think at least twice. But they might know, (inaudible) Jerry Lawler Statement Page Forty?three LAWLER SCHWEICKART LAWLER SCHWEICKART IAWLER MCCALL SCHWEICKART LAWLER SCHILLER MCCALL LAWLER MCCALL LAWLER MCCALL IAWLER MCCALL LAWLER And like I said, I don't remember what time, I, I just, I don't remember what tine they got there. I just remember what time, I Kean, I mean I just remember what tinelthat, that I took them back, uh, to Louisville. What was the I'm sorry. What was the name of the man you said that was in the room next door, or was staying next door (inaudible) that saw them coming and going in? That was, uh, . OK. I'm going to get you his number. How would he remember that, Jerry, this man, man, is he a good friend of yours, is he a wrestler or what? Well he, he was, uh, not actually a wrestler but he was working her for the wrestling organization at that time. Uh~huh. And, uh, he no longer, he doesn't work for the organization any more, he's in Indianapolis now. But, uh I.mean what's significant about two girls being in your room for 5 or 10 minutes that (inaudible) What I'm trying to find out. well nothing, other than the fact that he, that he was, had his door open Uhrhuh. And that's, for some reason, customary for him to do. He's kind of a strange guy, he, the only guy I've ever seen, he wears a, he, when he comes in town he's, puts on a Jerry Lawler Statement Page Forty~four LAWLER (cont'd) MCCALL SCHILLER LAWLER SCHILLER LAWLER SCHILLER LAWLER SCHILLER LAWLER SCHILLER LAWLER SCHILLER IAWLER SCHILLER bathrobe, I mean, you know, not many people would take a bathrobe with them or, or, maybe I should say somebody might take a bathrobe but, you know, he gets in a hotel and he puts on like a bathrobe on and then he'll parade around, walk around outside and, you know, stand around and you'll see him. And so anyway he had his, he had his door open and, uh, I, however, you know, when, uh, when I recall that date and check that date and, uh, I you know, I, I recall the incident. I that's why there are certain things that are distinctive to me, that I remember mainly about being put up on the second floor for the first time and then I remember that was standing out there and, and, uh, saw me, uh, you know, leave to go downstairs because he spoke to HE and I spoke to him. And then he saW'me come back and he saW'me and both girls leave. OK. OK, so, you know, the girls were there and and when you left he saw (inaudible), then he saw the girls leave. Yes. OK. So he saw them leave is what he saw. And, and I?think he saw them get there too. OK, have you, have you talked to him about that? Yeah. You say he's in Indianapolis now Yes. Is that where he works? Uh?huh. Yes. OK. And he's no longer a part of the organization. No. He kind of left on bad terms. Oh, is that right? Jerry Lawler Statement Page Forty-five LAWLER SCHILLER IAWLER SCHILLER MCCALL IAMLER MCCALL LAWLER MCCALL LAWLER MCCALL LAWLER Yeah. 0K. Now when you first, first heard about this it was from someone having (inaudible) managerial position with Louisville Gardens, 'somEthing. OK, what did tell you? I was, I and I remember I was getting dressed at the time that, uh, fixing to go wrestle, he came down and came into my dressing room and he said, uh, he said Jerry, do you know anything about some guy has come here and, uh, he claimed to be some girl's either custodial parent or relative. And, uh, he said he came up to the office the other day to.make, raising a lot of Cain about saying something about you and some wrestlers have been molesting his, this, two little girls. And I, and I said that's crazy. I said he must be some kind of goofball. And he says you don't know anything about it, I said no, that's crazy. He said OK, good. OK. That was it. That was it? OK. And then as far as the specific incidents that we're here, that we've talked about here today, you know, the one where, uh, she supposedly, where they met you up at your room, okay, in Indiana and the one where the one girl supposedly came to your, to your hotel to visit Uh?huh. OK, and you heard that from Yes. OK. I hope that's not getting in any trouble (inaudible) help Jerry Lawler Statement Page Forty?six MCCALL SCHWEICKART MCCALL LAWLER MCCALL IAMLER SCHWEICKART IAWLER MCCALL SCHWEICKART LAWLER MCCALL LAWLER MCCALL LAWLER MCCALL LAWLER SCHILLER MCCALL We don't want to, we're not trying to get in any trouble No, no. Somebody had to tell him what it was about Yeah I mean, you know. (Inaudible) well but didn't tell me, I guess didn't tell me anything until he said that you guys had talked to him about getting me to come in here, you know, and, and talk to you about this. No, that's not going to get in any trouble at all. OK. NO- Did anybody ever discuss with you the June incident? No. we, uh, we may, what he thinks is the July incident may be that, we don't, I mean that's what he Yeah, I don't know, I He's gone and checked the May 28th date, he knows that date. And he thinks the other thing was in July but it could be in June. Don't get Yeah, yeah I don't want you being locked into that. If, 'if you don't know what date it was 'cause we don't know (inaudible) Yeah, (inaudible) Yeah, I think it's clear to me, he's made it clear to me that he's not too sure (inaudible) He, he remembers an incident Jerry Lawler Statement Page Forty?seven SCHWEICKART MCCALL SCHILLER MCCALL SCHILLER MECALL SCHILLER MCCALL SCHWEICKART MCCALL SCHWEICKART MCCALL SCHWEICKART MCCALL SCHWEICKART MCCALL SCHWEICKART MCCALL SCHWEICKART No. he already Where these other people went to the MCDonald's with him and the other girl picked him up that morning Right. But it. that's the same incident Right. (Inaudible) we don't know what day it was but if it's a different one he doesn't. I mean Right. He doesn't know about it. I'm going to, I'm going to tell you because you sat here and you said you wanted to make it clear that we asked about all the incidents. Yeah. There are in fact two incidents that we are referring to. one in June. one in July, and in addition to a May incident that occurred in Indiana (inaudible), actually 2 incidents OK, could you tell us about them, just, uh Incidents (inaudible) Is one of them similar to the one he talks about when the people went MbDonald's with him? That would be the July one. That is July, OK. And the June one NOW can you just tell us what happened in June supposedly, so he can answer it? I'd like for him to answer right now without having some preparation for it. In June, okay. Do you recall her ever coming to your hotel room in the morning and waking 1 you up? Jerry Lawler Statement Page Forty?eight LAWLER SCHWEICKART MCCALL LAWLER SCHWEICKART SCHILLER MCCALL SCHWEICKART MCCALL SCHWEICKART MCCALL LAWLER MCCALL LAWLER MCCALL LAWLER MCCALL LAWLER MCCALL LAWLER No. Not at all. (Inaudible) I think you would recall that if that happened. Oh. absolutely. Oh. okay. (Inaudible) New I think June, June is the Hetel and the restaurant. OK. That's all I have (inaudible) I'm sorry. Is there. is there there is another incident? (Inaudible) No, no, it?s, now let me (inaudible), that he thinks the July is. is the morning when she came and woke you up and June is the MbDonald's and well what about this girl? Did she come in and wake you up that morning? No. nobody ever came in and woke me up. The only times as I've stated. . is that well how did you get in the car with her to go to the airport is what I'm asking. Uh would she have been waiting outside or you No, I I was already up. you know. I get the wake up call and I had a predetermined tine meet her. I was already up with my bags packed and waiting up at the office (Inaudible) For mother. OK, so no girl's ever come knocking on your door and says can I just come in for a few minutes Never Jerry Lawler Statement Page Forty-nine MCCALL LAWLER MCCALL IAWLER MCCALL SCHWEICKART MCCALL SCHWEICKART MCCALL LAWLER MCCALL LAWLER MCCALL SCHWEICKART MCCALL SCHWEICKART MCCALL SCHILLER MCCALL SCHWEICKART MCCALL Or had No. OK. And she wouldn't have used the phone out of your room or anything like that then? No. 0K. Do you have any other questions? I mean that was basically it, the June incident, I mean well other than the sexual acts that occurred when she was in the hotel room So the And she says she came knocking on your door The one girl's saying on two occasions in June or July she had sex with him in his room? Who is, who said that, is it I assume it was . Assuming. (Inaudible) . And the other incidence that occurred in Indiana Right With both girls. 0K, uh, is that enough? Do you have any I think I, I don't have any other questions (inaudible) I just want to know logistically, are you going to present the case today to the grand jury or are you going to put it off? Right now it's still scheduled today at 12:45. OK Jerry Lawler Statement Page Fifty SCHWEICKART MCCALL SCHWEICKART MCCALL SCHWEICKART MCCALL SCHWEICKART MCCALL SCHWEICKART MCCALL IAWLER MCCALL LAWLER MCCALL LAWLER MECALL SCHWEICKART SCHILLER MCCALL SCHILLER I'd like to hear the tapes OK If I could before then All right. well let me go back to the office and get them. I want to listen to them first and then I'll give them to you. I mean I'd like a later date, I don't know, I (inaudible) well I'm going to ask you if you I understand that, that's I just want to know if, but, but I (inaudible) to have him over there until he's requested the opportunity to go before the grand jury. Right now it's still scheduled for 12:45 but I would like to hear the tapes. OK. OK. How long are these tapes, Jerry? I don't know 0K. Fifteen minutes each or an hour each or what? Uh, they may, they may be that long. I mean An hour? They may be long, you know. There is, like I said there's three tapes. OK. (Inaudible) well, I was specifically interested in, in So if you can review that as quickly as possible and get that to us and you can find out if All right. And if you can do (Inaudible) Jerry Lawler Statement Page Fifty?one MCCALL SCHILLER SCHWEICKART MCCALL SCHILLER MCCALL SCHILLER MCCALL SCHILLER Trans: tm I tell you,-if you can, if you can review them that, uh, I'll give them back to you as soon as I can. Right. OK. And we'll end this right now (inaudible) Sure. Yeah, what time is it? It, it's 11:30. OK. (Inaudible). (Inaudible) It's 11:30. we'll close the tape out. Same date, lO?ll~93.