1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 TRANSCRIPT OF TAPE-RECORDED 11 HI-CALIBER HORSE RESCUE 12 JANUARY 3, 2018 13 14 DR. T 15 DR. S 16 CPT. CESAR PEREA 17 MICHELLE KNUTTILA-COCHRAN 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 [180103_001] 2 DR. T: 3 It's a deal where -- uh, what I 4 understand about this sale, it's -- you've got a lot of 5 horses that probably are in bad shape. They're 20 years old, 30 years old, chronic 6 7 laminitis, chronic severe arthritis, that sort of stuff 8 and, um, you know, they're going to -- the philosophy of 9 the place is these things are -- at the prices they're 10 going for, they're -- they're going to go to Mexico to a 11 slaughterhouse, that's where they're going. And these guys bring them down, if they're useful, 12 13 they use them. Some of them probably just need to be 14 euthanized, but that's the -- their thought is that, uh - 15 - their thought is that euthanasia is, uh -- here is 16 better than a Mexican slaughterhouse. So that's -- a fair number of them come in with that 17 18 deal. 19 DR. S: I see. So -- 20 DR. T: So I look them over when they come in. 21 DR. S: -- so you check each of them in? 22 DR. T: Yeah. I look them -- every one over and 23 I make -- you know, we try to make recommendations. Some 24 of them I say that this horse should probably be 25 euthanized -- 2 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 DR. S: Mm-hmm. 2 DR. T: -- severe laminitis, cachexia, all that 3 stuff. 4 DR. S: Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. 5 DR. T: And, um, you know, if we feel like 6 there's a place to go with them or if they feel like 7 there's a place to go with them, then that's what 8 happens. 9 10 DR. S: Do they retrain and rehome if they're -- 11 DR. T: Yes. 12 DR. S: Okay. 13 DR. T: I do that. 14 DR. S: Okay. 15 DR. T: If it's -- if it's possible. I try to - 16 - if a horse is not, you know -- in fact, if you care, 17 I'll be happy to send you x-rays of some of these things 18 if we feel like there's no, uh -- um, realistic way -- 19 maybe a 25-year-old gelding that has severe ringbone or 20 that sort of thing. 21 If we feel like there's no real hope that he could 22 ever be sound enough for anybody to use him for anything, 23 then it could be a euthanasia that way. 24 DR. S: Uh-huh. Yeah. Okay. 25 DR. T: So I do that and I try to, you know, 3 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 work up the lame ones. We do -- I do dentistry too. We do 2 a lot of dentistry. Um, it's a bit of a challenge, 3 because most of them haven't seen a dentist in probably - 4 - ever. 5 DR. S: Ever. 6 DR. T: So it's not like this place is where 7 they get it once a -- once a year; you know? 8 DR. S: Yeah. Yeah. 9 DR. T: It's like he probably hasn't had it in 10 15 years. 11 DR. S: Yeah. Yeah. 12 DR. T: So it's a little more of a challenge to do 13 them. Um, they worm them when they get here and -- and 14 -- you know, and part of it is just to give them more 15 groceries, a lot of them. DR. S: 16 17 Yeah. Yeah. They've got a nice stack of hay down there. DR. T: 18 So -- yeah. No. I mean, there -- I 19 don't think there's any question about them being 20 fed adequately; okay? 21 DR. S: Mm-hmm. 22 DR. T: Obviously, you're going to see some here 23 that may not look too good, the ones that just got 24 here. 25 They take pictures of them when they come in and we 4 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 do a little, uh, check-in sheet, uh, about them, what 2 breed we think they are, what age we think they are, 3 blah, blah, blah. 4 DR. S: Mm-hmm. 5 DR. T: It's very common -- I think it's part of 6 the culture up in that area that these things are not 7 castrated and very common. 8 DR. S: Sure. 9 DR. T: And so I castrate a whole lot of 10 horses, more than I ever used to, that's for sure. 11 MR. PEREA: 12 DR. T: 13 14 Wow. So these things will be 15 and 20-year-old stallions. DR. S: Don't you wonder where their -- like 15 how are there so many more that -- I don't know anyone 16 that's breeding anymore. How are there this many more 17 horses every week at the auction; you know? Just makes me 18 wonder. 19 DR. T: No. I'm with you. 20 DR. S: I guess maybe my -- my clients 21 weren't breeding anymore -- 22 DR. T: No. 23 DR. S: -- but I guess other people are. DR. T: 24 Well, I mean, according to our 25 association, you probably know this, there's 90,000 5 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 unwanted horses in the country every year. 2 DR. S: 3 MR. PEREA: 4 DR. T: 5 Yeah. Wow. That seems like a crazy -- that that number would be crazy -- 6 DR. S: Yeah. 7 DR. T: -- but it comes from legitimate sources. 8 So they're there and, um -- yeah. No. I'm with you, 9 because my deal is mostly mares and foals and, you 10 know, my [inaudible] in the industry is business is off 11 by two-thirds of what it used to be. 12 DR. S: Yeah. 13 DR. T: So, um, I don't know, they -- they -- 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 anyhow, so that's what I see. Um -DR. S: And then if they've got wound care and stuff like that, are you doing that? DR. T: I mean, I advise them on it. A lot -- they do the day-to-day bandaging and stuff. Um -MR. PEREA: day, you -- I mean, twice a week? 21 DR. S: 22 MR. PEREA: 23 24 25 So -- so you're here twice -- twice a Twice a day, that'd be a lot. Twice a day -- twice a week pretty consistently? DR. T: You could -- I mean, if you really wanted to get after it, you could almost do that -- 6 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 MR. PEREA: 2 DR. T: Wow. -- but I -- I -- yeah. I'm here twice a week 3 and they -- they medicate them and follow up on them and 4 stuff. I mean, I try to be advisory as much as I can. 5 DR. S: Mm-hmm. 6 DR. T: I -- you know, and I -- you know, I'm, 7 um -- I'm honest and -- and sometimes they'll overrule 8 me. 9 I mean, uh, if I feel that we have an older horse 10 with chronic laminitis that's in pain all day long, I'll 11 usually, you know, say, I think you should euthanize them 12 and, uh, sometimes they may decide to fight it for a 13 while, you know, but I try to -- if there's just no hope, 14 I try to -- because there's a certain amount of, uh, you 15 know, feeling for the animals -- 16 DR. S: Oh, sure. 17 DR. T: -- and the people who work at a place 18 like this have feelings for them. And, uh -- but if I 19 think it's hopeless -- or like one today, he's -- you 20 know, he has severe arthritis, severe advanced 21 [inaudible] ringbone and he's probably 25. 22 23 And, you know, you have to be honest, he's probably not going to be anybody's riding horse. 24 DR. S: Yeah. Yeah. 25 DR. T: So the market for him is going to be 7 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 slim. And so, you know, they have a certain amount of do 2 you want to go -- do we want to do his teeth and do his 3 [inaudible], you know, but it becomes a -- he's here once 4 or twice a week, that guy and, um, I mean, they're -- 5 it's a grassroots type of deal to me. 6 It's -- uh, we can't go [inaudible] this week, 7 because one might need it, you know, and like there's 95 8 [inaudible]. It's a -- it's a -- 9 DR. S: Yeah. 10 DR. T: -- grassroots -- what they do with the -- 11 in the big picture is probably a drop in the bucket -- 12 DR. S: Yeah. 13 DR. T: -- but it's a grassroots kind of deal. 14 DR. S: Yeah. 15 DR. T: So if you want to see x-rays, I've got 16 quite a collection of them. Uh, it'll be, uh, 17 entertaining to you, some of it. 18 19 20 DR. S: Might find some good pictures to use on [inaudible]. DR. T: It's, uh -- what they do -- I mean, uh -- 21 uh, they -- you know, the issue you've got for a lot of 22 these people is -- you know, and a lot of it up there, 23 I'm not going to lie to you, it's -- it's -- it's -- this 24 is Hispanic culture up there that they're involved with 25 and they don't like to geld and -- and a lot of times 8 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 they don't have the money. They've got to pay the vet to euthanize them and pay 2 3 the vet to haul them off. These -- you know, this is 4 going to probably be at least $400 or $500 and they bring 5 them over there and these people will give them $50 to 6 $100 for them and take them. 7 DR. S: Mm-hmm. 8 DR. T: I mean, they wish they could be rehomed or 9 be rehomed and then the euthanasia takes [inaudible] out 10 of them or severely cachexic and they haven't been fed 11 and stuff. And I don't know where the hell they all come 12 from, tell you the truth. DR. S: 13 14 Yeah. It's just -- it's just boggles my mind. DR. T: 15 Yeah. They're not -- the males are often 16 not castrated. That's sort of part of the culture too 17 -- 18 DR. S: Mm-hmm. 19 DR. T: -- they don't like to castrate the males. 20 So we -- if -- I mean, if a horse is in bad enough shape 21 when he gets here, I -- you know, what's the point of 22 putting them through a castration -- 23 DR. S: Yeah. 24 DR. T: -- at 25 when he probably needs to be 25 euthanized. So that does happen. Um -- 9 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 2 3 4 DR. S: And then are you euthanizing them for them then? DR. T: She shoots them. She does shoot them and, uh -- 5 DR. S: 6 or -- 7 DR. T: And then does she have a burial pit No. The, uh -- they come and pick them up. 8 She has the service -- one of the services that comes 9 and picks them up. 10 11 DR. S: I don't even know what happens in San Diego. Is it a landfill? 12 DR. T: Sweetwater Landfill now. 13 DR. S: Oh, okay. 14 DR. T: Until it fills up, I guess, that's 15 16 17 18 where they go. MR. PEREA: Is it double -- is it -- was it Double D -- or who's the rendering company that -DR. T: Well, the company we've got now is a guy -- 19 he's called -- uh, I can give you his number. He's 20 called Animal Pickup or something, it's a simple name. 21 There's a couple of guys, one's up into Murrieta and 22 one's in San Diego. 23 24 25 DR. S: There's one by Anderson in Murrieta; right? Is he still there? DR. T: Uh, that's -- and it used to be, uh, 10 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 Stiles [ph] did everything -- 2 DR. S: Yeah. 3 DR. T: -- you know, up in Ontario, but this 4 guy's -- 5 DR. S: Yeah. 6 DR. T: -- kind of pushed him out of business a 7 little. I've used him a lot. I asked him what he does 8 with them. He says, uh, we can take them to the 9 Sweetwater Landfill. And so that's where they go now. 10 DR. S: Mm-hmm. 11 DR. T: Um -- 12 DR. S: There's not another vacant, uh -- 13 DR. T: -- you know, shooting them is not 14 something that I -- well, I guess, my thought about it is 15 this, I -- I'm not going to do it, because I'm a vet -- 16 DR. S: Mm-hmm. 17 DR. T: -- and I really don't need some video of 18 me shooting a horse. 19 DR. S: Yeah. 20 DR. T: I think if -- if it's done properly, 21 which I think it is, then I -- I don't want to watch, I 22 don't like to see it, but I think it's humane -- 23 DR. S: Mm-hmm. 24 DR. T: -- if it's done properly, which I think -- 25 I mean, they have the experience. So that's how it's 11 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 done. And why would that be done? 2 It's -- you know, I guess it saves money. I take a 3 hit on the Internet just for being here and -- and, you 4 know, that's the kind of thing that eventually runs vet 5 [inaudible] bets off. 6 DR. S: Yeah. 7 DR. T: There's some people who are very, very 8 opposed to euthanize, uh, under any circumstances. So my 9 name gets on there occasionally. Um, I would guess I 10 would prefer not to be euthanizing the number of horses 11 that can euthanized here; you know? 12 DR. S: Yeah. 13 DR. T: Um, and plus, some of them are here, 14 because they have significant behavioral issues. So it's 15 not that easy to euthanize them by injection; you know? 16 DR. S: 17 MR. PEREA: 18 DR. T: So -- and -- 19 DR. S: Are you involved with weeding those 20 ones out at all? 21 DR. T: 22 25 Yeah. Well, those ones usually weed themselves out -- 23 24 Right. DR. S: Yeah. Like you can't even get an exam DR. T: -- when you can't -- they want to jump done? 12 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 up and punch you in the face; you know? 2 MR. PEREA: Yeah. 3 DR. T: 4 MR. PEREA: 5 DR. S: [inaudible] 6 DR. T: So we see that. So, uh -- but I -- they You know how that goes. It's never fun. 7 do their best to rehome them, in my opinion. They 8 probably try on some that I wouldn't try. Uh, I'm gelding 9 probably three a week anyhow out here, um, and that helps 10 them. That helps them. 11 DR. S: Yeah. Yeah. 12 DR. T: You know, we just keep that [inaudible] 13 over there and [inaudible]. 14 DR. S: I heard him, now I can see him. 15 DR. T: Oh, there he is. He's going to get up, 16 though. He's -- 17 DR. S: Yeah. 18 DR. T: -- he was kind of wild. And so we had to 19 -- I gave him enough to lay him down and to get his 20 feet trimmed, but -- 21 22 23 DR. S: I was going to say, do you do their feet and teeth while they're down too? DR. T: Well, I don't do the teeth. [inaudible] 24 25 [180103_002] 13 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 2 DR. S: This was one out in the middle. 3 DR. T: I do -- I do give some bad [inaudible] out 4 of their ears [inaudible] mouth, but, um -- 5 DR. S: Where's your [inaudible]? 6 DR. T: Um, I live in Valley Center. 7 DR. S: Oh, okay. 8 DR. T: And, uh, so I get some, uh, bad press. 9 I've -- I'm just trying to be honest with you to give 10 back a little bit, but this is the end of the line for a 11 lot of these horses and I'm trying to give back a little. 12 You know, I mean, I don't work for free, but I 13 probably work for reasonable and, uh, to [inaudible] or 14 we can go -- and ultimately, I feel like I'm -- somebody 15 has to say, this horse should be put down and I guess, I 16 feel like I'm the most qualified at the end of the day to 17 say that, but I don't have to do it myself. 18 It obviously saves them a lot of money to do it by - 19 - by -- and -- and I guess some people don't like that. I 20 think it's humane if it's done properly, which I think 21 they do out here. They've done enough of them, that's for 22 sure. Um -- 23 MR. PEREA: Do -- do they -- does the recommendation 24 usually come from you to euthanize or do they -- is that 25 something -- 14 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 DR. T: 1 2 I would say it's a decision made together. 3 MR. PEREA: 4 DR. T: Okay. Made together. Um, for me, most of them are 5 pretty easy, 35, 30 -- 25, 30-year-old horse with 6 chronic laminitis that can barely walk. It's like, you know -- and you'll see -- if you see 7 8 my name on there, they say I'll okay too many euthanasias 9 or whatever, but some people are going to be opposed to 10 euthanasia at any -- for any reason. 11 MR. PEREA: 12 DR. T: Mm-hmm. And I -- I don't -- the last 13 [inaudible] engaged these people on the Internet and -- 14 and he ended up regretting it, because they -- they want 15 you to engage. 16 MR. PEREA: 17 DR. T: Exactly. And so I don't -- like I told him, I'm 18 62, I don't know what Facebook is. I don't care what's 19 going on, all these things, I don't care. So I'm not 20 engaging in any way -- 21 MR. PEREA: 22 DR. T: 23 Yeah. -- they're not going to change their mind. 24 MR. PEREA: 25 DR. T: Mm-hmm. Um, and so -- but I -- you know, it is 15 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 an issue. It's [inaudible] that have horses and don't 2 have enough money and what are you going to do with them 3 at the end of the line? [inaudible] -- I mean, if they do 4 anything, they do create a little market up there for 5 them, because they'll give them $100, $200 for them for a 6 horse that's worth nothing. 7 DR. S: 8 DR. T: Yeah. But for those people, it's a swing of 9 $200 or $300 out versus $100 in their pocket and I 10 feel like they maybe get a little too carried away 11 with that sometimes, because they create a market -- 12 DR. S: Yeah. 13 DR. T: -- you know, for them up there. It's -- 14 uh, I don't know what -- ask her. It's in Riverside or 15 someplace [inaudible]. 16 MR. PEREA: 17 DR. T: 18 19 Do -- It's the same one, I forget now, but it's on- -- I mean, as far as I know, it's once a week. MR. PEREA: -- and they'll -- uh, and you know for 20 sure where they end up if they go to auction there and 21 they buy them? Where -- where do they go? 22 DR. T: To the guy who's there who they deal with, 23 takes them to the slaughter and -- well, if he sees one 24 that he thinks is useful -- 25 MR. PEREA: Mm-hmm. 16 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 DR. T: -- he'll try to sell it privately -- 2 MR. PEREA: 3 DR. S: Yeah. A lot of those guys do that. 4 DR. T: -- but -- but if -- if there's no place Mm-hmm. 5 to go with it, I mean, my understanding is they're going 6 to slaughterhouses in Mexico, but you could -- I mean, I 7 haven't seen that with my own eyes, but, you know -- 8 9 MR. PEREA: DR. T: Yeah. -- and I think this is -- don't quote 10 me on this, I think we could use a horse slaughterhouse 11 in this country. There's just too many unwanted horses. 12 My God, they've got 30,000 feral horses at that -- 13 in that contained facility up in Reno that -- you know, 14 that they've rounded up and I mean, it's -- BLM -- BLM's 15 going broke just feeding them all, because if they try to 16 euthanize them or do anything with them, it's -- it's -- 17 DR. S: [inaudible] 18 DR. T: -- it's a huge -- 19 MR. PEREA: 20 DR. T: Wow. -- you know, one of those -- I was at a 21 meeting about it in Reno last month and one of the 22 surgeons up at Oregon State started to do some -- he's 23 trying to do some research just to know how to -- meth- - 24 - methods of sterilization. 25 He got -- he got a life threat -- his life was 17 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 threatened over that. 2 DR. S: Are you kidding? 3 MR. PEREA: 4 DR. T: 5 S: 6 DR. T: Wow. That's how hot button an issue it is -- DR. Yeah. -- this whole thing is and, um, you 7 know, I told him, I'll work here until I get -- I start 8 getting personal threats. Then I'm not sure I'm going to 9 be able to keep going, but that's how these people are. 10 They're very -- 11 MR. PEREA: 12 DR. T: Wow. -- they're very, very -- and -- and, uh, 13 you know, you feel like saying, come out here with me and 14 che- -- look what these horses are like when they come 15 in. If you want to be mad at anybody, you go find the 16 person that allowed this horse to look like this. 17 Um, but -- so anyhow, my approach for the moment. 18 I've only worked here now for about three or four months 19 or five months, something -- is that I'll go until I get 20 threats. 21 I don't think there's been a vet working here has 22 ever gotten any personal threats. The last guy started 23 engaging them on the Internet and that was a mistaken. 24 MR. PEREA: 25 DR. T: Yeah. It always is. [inaudible], because you weren't going 18 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 to -- he wasn't going to win. 2 DR. S: 3 MR. PEREA: 4 DR. T: 5 S: 6 DR. T: 7 No. No. He wasn't going to change their mind. DR. Never. They'd be happy to argue with you for the next 10 years. 8 MR. PEREA: 9 DR. T: Oh, yeah. You're not going to change their minds. So 10 I don't know, that's where the -- I'm trying to give 11 back, um -- oh, my gosh, [inaudible]. Um, I'm trying to 12 give back, uh, that's my ideal here. If it gets too 13 ugly, I don't want to be here anymore. 14 MR. PEREA: 15 DR. T: 16 17 18 19 Yeah. Would I want to do this kind of thing for a living? Not particularly. DR. S: Yeah. Twice a week is a significant chunk of your time. DR. T: Yeah. Well, I mean, they pay me. Um, you 20 know, they're scared not to pay me, because there's 21 not many vets who want to come out here. 22 I -- I -- I think my rates are pretty reasonable on 23 the whole thing, um, but at the end of the day, I've got 24 to pay my bills too. So anyhow -- 25 DR. S: Yeah. Yeah. 19 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 DR. T: 2 MR. PEREA: 3 4 5 Guys, I don't know what else to say. business card or your info? DR. T: One of the ways they approach this thing, as [inaudible] told me, is if they don't -- 6 MR. PEREA: 7 DR. T: 8 9 10 [inaudible]. Do you -- do you have a That's fine. -- they don't like what's going on at a place -- the folks -- oh, thanks -MR. PEREA: DR. T: Sure. -- if folks don't like what there -- is 11 going on, they try to see if they can intimidate the 12 various service providers -- 13 DR. S: Yeah. 14 DR. T: -- so we won't [inaudible]. 15 DR. S: Yeah. 16 MR. PEREA: 17 DR. T: 18 MR. PEREA: 19 T: 20 MR. PEREA: 21 DR. S: No. [inaudible] -- 22 DR. T: You check me on -- 23 DR. S: -- coming to provide the care? 24 DR. T: -- you can check me on the going to 25 Wow. And, um -- you know, um -Which would only make it worse. DR. Well -Does that make any sense? Mexico for the slaughterhouses. That's what I'm told. I'm 20 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 just repeating what I've been told. 2 MR. PEREA: 3 DR. S: [inaudible] 4 DR. T: I haven't wit- -- witnessed it with my 5 Yeah. own -- 6 DR. S: Yeah. 7 DR. T: -- two eyes. So I don't want to -- 8 DR. S: But that's [inaudible] what's out 9 10 11 12 there. DR. T: -- but that's not going to be a pretty situation under any circumstances; you know? And, um, so that's what the -- that's -- you know, a 13 certain number of these horses, probably two or three a 14 week, come in, but it probably, you know, should've been 15 euthanized a long time ago. 16 So -- but they have pictures of them all. So that 17 sort of stuff, every horse that comes in, they -- they 18 keep those on file. So I think if you see some of them, 19 you'll see them [inaudible]. 20 DR. S: So they kind of scrapbook, like intake a 21 month later, two months later or whatever or is that -- 22 you might not necessarily know that. 23 24 25 DR. T: Probably. Probably. We have an intake sheet we fill out and they take pictures and file them -DR. S: Uh-huh. 21 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 DR. T: 1 -- and they worm them and they treat them 2 all for lice [inaudible] so much lice and they -- they 3 put them on a [inaudible] and -- but, uh, I mean, my 4 only thing is because it becomes so expensive is it -- 5 6 [180103_003] 7 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 8 9 [inaudible], but we didn't [inaudible] everybody the time off [inaudible]. Nobody's 10 going to die if you're standing [inaudible]. So everybody 11 wanted to have their time off. So [inaudible]. 12 MR. PEREA: So you -- you're hands-on with 13 everything out here? 14 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 15 MR. PEREA: 16 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: [inaudible] Okay. It's me all day, every day. I 17 can tell you every horse, their name, their diet, their 18 age, they fart [inaudible], every medication they're on. 19 I can tell you every one of my volunteers' names, I can 20 tell you everything. Every single one of these horses 21 [inaudible]. MR. PEREA: 22 23 So you survive strictly on donations or -- 24 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 25 MR. PEREA: Yeah. Oh, wow. 22 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: [inaudible]. Part of their 2 problem is they don't like that I'm euthanasia certified 3 and I'm [inaudible]. We've got a woman who pulls the 4 trigger and they don't like it. So this is my farrier, 5 L [ph]. He can tell you, he's here every week. 6 MALE: 7 MR. PEREA: 8 MALE: 9 MR. PEREA: 10 11 [inaudible] How are you doing? Good. How are you? Good. MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: $1,600 a week. This is D [ph]. 12 MR. PEREA: 13 FEMALE: 14 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 15 FEMALE: 16 MR. PEREA: 17 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 18 FEMALE: 19 MR. PEREA: 20 DR. S: 21 MR. PEREA: 22 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 23 Our average bill with him is Hi. Hi. She's our [inaudible]. Hi. How's it going? She's [inaudible]. Good. How are you? Man, we should've probably [inaudible]. [inaudible]. Good training; huh? Yeah. Trying to. [inaudible]. I'm just going to open the door up. 24 DR. S: [inaudible] 25 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: [inaudible] part of my barn 23 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 [inaudible]. We break down the barn every day. This horse 2 just got here last night, [inaudible] euthanized today. 3 DR. S: The one that she's leading? 4 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: This is my mud room, the 5 pharmacy, here's my organs I donate post-euthanasia, 6 here's my med book. We also have a database, shelter, 7 stable. Well, these are all my horses under vet care. 8 DR. S: 9 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 10 What do you donate? Testicles, ovaries, eyeballs, whatever they want. 11 DR. S: Where is that donated? 12 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: Uh, the zoo takes 13 reproductive organs for a rhino study, Davis takes eyes 14 for uveitis study. And we have our hard copies over here. 15 16 17 18 DR. S: Are they looking at, um, [inaudible] recovery techniques and stuff? MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: questions [inaudible]. 19 DR. S: 20 want. 21 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 22 23 24 25 I don't know, I don't ask So they just tell you what they Well, these are all our hard copies and then we enter it into a database as well. DR. S: Do you give them the testicles from castrations or -MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: Mm-hmm. Yeah. They're already 24 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 packed up and ready from today. Um, when I euthanize the 2 horses later, um, the mares, I'll take the ovaries out. 3 Uh, we harvest them. 4 And then same ovaries, we cut them open after 5 they're done and harvest the ovaries, which again, people 6 don't like. I don't care, when they're dead, they're 7 dead. This mare came in at midnight last night. 8 9 She's a relinquishment for euthanasia. So when she - she's got a [inaudible] up there and her back leg is 10 disgusting. I was actually -- would've already euthanized 11 her, but I had to stop and talk to you guy. Not bitching, 12 just saying. 13 14 MR. PEREA: So where was she relinquished to, what agency? 15 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 16 MR. PEREA: 17 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: Me. Us. Oh. [inaudible]. We offer free 18 euthanasia. Right now we're getting, uh, a new permit 19 dealing with the county. 20 So our shit's on hold. We're going to want to start 21 composting, but we can't do it without the permit. So 22 we're working with fire department and the County of San 23 Diego -- 24 MR. PEREA: Okay. 25 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: -- for composting. This is 25 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 our training area. So again, worst problem you'll find 2 here is that I gave everybody the holiday off from 3 mucking. So -- and then we just open these up and tractor 4 them through. So this is training. These are all the horses that 5 6 are actively being trained or ready for adoption on stall 7 rests, whatever it might be. The area you guys were down 8 at talking to the veterinarian, that's our quarantine 9 area. 10 It's where isolation horses are that came from, uh, 11 an auction. So they're kept on the separate end of the 12 ranch until we know that they're without strangles or 13 communicable diseases. Everybody's quarantined for 30 14 days, they're [inaudible] tested. Uh, we run SAAs on 15 everything. 16 When they come in from auction, we run their blood, 17 take their temp and any reason for us to [inaudible] what 18 they have [inaudible], then they get put to the armpit of 19 the ranch. 20 21 22 23 DR. S: Seems like you have a pretty good database so that there is [inaudible]. MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: Uh, yeah. My highest one was $2,000 last week. 24 DR. S: Nice. 25 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: And Dr. P [ph], Dr. 26 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 H [ph], they're my friends from [inaudible]. They're 2 also active [inaudible] -- active members of our 3 organization. Dr. [inaudible]. 4 This is our [inaudible] warmer. [inaudible] 5 yesterday. We're also grade 5 out of 5 [inaudible]. This 6 is our orphan that animal control is out on, because 7 apparently, it's illegal to have an orphan. 8 9 So we've raised him since he was two days old, he's now two months old. So he gets round-the-clock carrots. 10 And then -- 11 DR. S: 12 13 Do you have someone stationed during the night? MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: Mm-hmm. Yeah. We have seven 14 people here. This is Nina [ph]. She was [inaudible]. 15 She's from Riverside County Animal Control. She was an 16 evidence case -- uh, emaciation case. 17 So she's putting on a nice amount of weight. She got 18 in here, uh, about three weeks ago. Then I have two more 19 evidence horses they're sending me also. So I, uh -- 20 MR. PEREA: What agency was that? 21 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: Uh, Riverside [inaudible]. 22 And this is Mina [ph], we just bought her in a parking 23 lot for $100 two -- two weeks -- when did Mina get here, 24 two weeks ago? 25 FEMALE: I think so. Yeah. 27 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: Yeah. So she was, uh, dumped 2 in the parking lot that -- up in Riverside [inaudible]. 3 We -- we have an extension program. So we'll pay up to 4 $200 to get a horse out of a bad backyard. 5 We call it a bad backyard program and it's to flush 6 all these bad horses out. So we'll offer up to $200 cash 7 for a horse like her so that we're getting [inaudible] 8 out of the backyard. 9 So we'll pay them to bring them out and then -- you 10 know, otherwise they go into hiding and they don't -- you 11 know, the horse dies, starves to death. 12 MR. PEREA: Mm-hmm. 13 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: But she just got here. Uh, 14 this horse was relinquished last night. She's a five out 15 of five lame, bone [inaudible]. She'll be euthanized 16 today. Um, this is a former BCS one. 17 So she's at the tail end of her recovery, but she 18 came in a skeleton. That other mare out there, you saw 19 Radar [ph], she was also a BCS one. So you can see we 20 document everything. We have an intake. So everything is 21 -- has photos taken of it. 22 MR. PEREA: 23 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 24 25 Did you post it on Facebook? No. It's in an internal group. MR. PEREA: Oh, okay. 28 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 2 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: Uh, but for reasons like this -- so you can see this is her when she got here. 3 MR. PEREA: Mm-hmm. 4 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: So we document everything. 5 Um, so you can look up like -- this is another BCS one 6 that just came in and that's her now. You just saw her 7 over there. 8 MR. PEREA: Mm-hmm. 9 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: So they come in skinny, they 10 leave fat, but we document everything. Like this mare, 11 she'll be euthanized today. So we have video of her so 12 that if anybody has any questions and thinks that my vet 13 is like being paid off to -- 14 MR. PEREA: Mm-hmm. 15 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: -- sign these horses over, we 16 take video of them so that we have this stockpiled. Uh, 17 everything's in the book. 18 MR. PEREA: 19 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 20 MR. PEREA: 21 22 Where do you, uh, euthanize? Here. No. I mean, specifically, like do you have a -MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: Sometimes where the horse is. 23 If the horse can't walk, you know, I don't -- my only 24 rule is I don't do it in front of other horses. 25 MR. PEREA: So if you were going to euthanize a 29 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 horse that's in use in this barn, where -- where would 2 you do it? MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 3 Well, if it could walk, I 4 would walk over here. If it can't walk, then I would lock 5 all the horses up so they can't see it and do it right 6 here. 7 MR. PEREA: 8 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 9 Right here? Just my -- my only rule is they can't see it. 10 MR. PEREA: Yeah. 11 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: That's -- I don't want any 12 other horses seeing the other horses euthanized. So most 13 of the time it's down there or up here. So the -- the 14 removal company has to be able to access it. So it's got 15 to be a fairly open area. 16 MR. PEREA: I see. 17 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: And then that trailer is our 18 training/tack trailer. We have like 20 people that come 19 out and ride our horses, get them ready for adoption. 20 That pen right there is a free feed pen. 21 So after they're out of re-feed syndrome, they get 22 fed all day, like the buckskin and the chestnut got here 23 48 hours ago. There's a video that went up on the 24 Internet when I got them. 25 But I document everything when they get here, what 30 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 they look like when they leave. Everything's recorded, 2 everything's photographed -- 3 MR. PEREA: Mm-hmm. 4 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: -- everything sees a vet 5 within 24 hours. Dr. T's here at least Wednesday and 6 Friday. We have a $46,000 a month bill with him, plus 7 another $5,000 to $8,000 a month for [inaudible]. 8 9 We hospitalize a lot of the horses. We have three in there for [inaudible] this month. So on average, 10 [inaudible] pharmaceuticals, about $20,000 a month 11 medical expense, my farrier is $6,000 a month. 12 13 14 DR. S: What's under the, um, plastic wrap on the building in the barn [inaudible]? MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: [inaudible]. The one that's 15 being trained doesn't have any [inaudible]. She just came 16 in with a laceration and we didn't want it to turn into a 17 [inaudible] sore. 18 So she's supposed to be covered [inaudible]. That 19 other horse that was in the barn, he came in with slices 20 on his side from spurs. [inaudible] before we got him 21 [inaudible]. He also had it on his heel. 22 He had to have a surgical intervention. And then 23 these herds are where they go after they're out of 24 quarantine if they're either too brain-fried or go into 25 training. Like a lot of these horses that we get have 31 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 2 mental scars that are just [inaudible] in the head. So we put them out in the herd for three to six 3 months so they don't have to deal with people, they can 4 reset their clocks or if they're young, like a 5 [inaudible] yearling, two-year-olds, we don't break our 6 horse [inaudible] before here. 7 So we're bitless. Um, we try to -- we're not anti- 8 bit, but we just get so many horses in here that their 9 mouths just split open or they're mouth-shy, because 10 people rip their mouths off, because they don't know how 11 to ride and they make the horse pay the price by putting 12 in a twisted wire. 13 So we have lead the way on bitless training. We ride 14 stallions, greens, racehorses; you name it, we ride it 15 bitless. 16 Uh, we're right in the process of buying this place 17 now in which case we're tearing all the wood out and 18 putting fire, uh, friendly fencing, but for the first 19 three years that we were here, we didn't know if we were 20 going to buy it. So we didn't invest the money into 21 [inaudible]. Now that we're [inaudible] -- 22 DR. S: 23 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 24 25 You're purchasing? -- that's all -- that's all a donation [inaudible]. DR. S: Wow. 32 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: So we have a lot of 2 celebrities that come out here, support us. So these are 3 all getting reset. 4 So, uh, like Shawa [ph] right there, she was a 5 brain-fried, uh, [inaudible] horse, um, Bailey [ph] came 6 from Riverside County Animal Control, uh, a lot of these 7 are ex-race horses that came in just completely spent. 8 Harper [ph] just got here. She's a little bitchy, 9 she just had a mare. So -- or had a filly. Uh, so she's 10 out here just kind of resetting her clock. But there's a 11 full rotation of farrier. 12 So he'll do the herds one week and then, uh, 13 vineyard one week, pyramid and loft the next week, 14 training, barn. So it's a six -- six to eight-week 15 rotation. Everybody gets their feet done between six and 16 eight weeks and then same with the next herd. 17 But you're welcome to go out there and see them all. 18 You won't find a long hoof in the bunch. On my medical 19 team, I've got 12 girls that are on my medical team. 20 We're staffed 24/7. The guy that has [inaudible]. So 21 they [inaudible]. So he has a lot of work to get set up. 22 [inaudible] 23 MR. PEREA: 24 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 25 How -- how big is the property? [inaudible], but they'll lie and tell you that it's 11 and I have 200 horses. That's 33 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 their -- their claim to fame on the Internet. 2 MR. PEREA: How many do you have? 3 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: Uh, here on site, I think, 4 164, but in the program, I've got like 190-something. 5 There's Foster [ph]. Uh, this is the other herd. 6 So this is like oldies, uh, pasture [inaudible], 7 lameness issues that doesn't constitute euthanasia, um, 8 but they're not ridable or like, uh, Ghost over there, 9 she's just kind of said, fuck off, doesn't want to be 10 11 12 ridden. So this is just our -- they're adoptable, but like he came from Riverside Animal Control. 13 DR. S: Okay. 14 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: Yeah. He was another 15 starvation case. So that was him when we first got him 16 and he came from, um -- you can see him right there too. 17 And he's been in magazines. 18 So -- and he just lives his life here, because he 19 has massive separation anxiety. So if you take him and 20 use him, he freaks out. So he's one of our few sanctuary 21 horses. We only have like three, but the rest of them all 22 are in adoption. 23 So when they leave this area after they're cleared 24 for health, they come out here and then these are 25 tractored once a month. That's a tractored one from 34 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 2 [inaudible] scheduled for quarantine. vSo communal areas are done every month and then, 3 uh, 24x24s are done 3 days a week. My goal is to get them 4 done five to seven days a week, but it is what it is. 5 Nobody's going to die from [inaudible]. 6 7 8 9 DR. S: How do you adopt them? Do you have [inaudible]? MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: [inaudible]. There are people here all day, every day. The only day we won't show 10 horses [inaudible]. So this is the nursery. It's 11 overpopulated right now, because we got a large group of 12 orphan foals. 13 Male had a -- an autoimmune wart. So normally we 14 should only have about seven in there, but because we 15 didn't want to cross-contaminate, we allowed, uh, double 16 the populous for now until their, uh, facial warts are 17 all cleared up. 18 So these all came, uh -- I think they came from 19 Texas, [inaudible]. So B, she does our watering and 20 feeds them grapes. Bleaches -- everybody gets bleached. 21 The only shitty thing here is that our water looks like 22 beer, because we have such massive amounts of, uh, iron 23 in the water. 24 25 So same thing with this, it gets tractored once a month. So they're on the tail end. I think actually 35 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 yesterday [inaudible]. Then this is stud row. So all of 2 these are stallions that were gelded. 3 4 We're [inaudible]. So [inaudible] gelded [inaudible] huge stickers on their butts. 5 DR. S: Who [inaudible]? 6 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: [inaudible], Lancaster 7 [inaudible]. These are all the studs and these just 8 gelded. [inaudible] 9 DR. S: That's an all-red horse. 10 MR. PEREA: 11 DR. S: 12 A what? All-red. [inaudible]. It's a [inaudible]. 13 MR. PEREA: Oh, really? 14 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: And then all of these are 15 horses that have been exposed to upper respiratory, came 16 in with snots, high -- high [inaudible]. So these are 17 anything that's been here within the last 30 days. 18 And then same thing, so we tear these down at the 19 beginning of the month. We open these up, drive the 20 tractor in, scrape it. 21 22 23 DR. S: And then all -- that all goes over on the other side where we saw the [inaudible]? MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: Yeah. We could dispose of it, 24 but the county -- like I said, we're right in the middle 25 of doing, uh, a new permit and they want to remove 36 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 [inaudible] composting, but they need the environmental 2 sign-off. 3 DR. S: 4 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 5 6 7 8 9 Mm-hmm. So we're just waiting. That's why the big pile's there. DR. S: Do you have to build a structure to compost it or how do they do that? MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: Um, I don't handle it, but as far as I know, they're going to dig down -- 10 DR. S: Uh-huh. 11 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: -- and put into the ground. 12 So -- like all -- she just came two weeks ago from sale, 13 uh, to me. Like you can see, she's got a snotty nose, 14 she's been treated. She's on Excede. Franklin, he's on 15 Excede, Bentin Coleman [ph]. 16 So all of these are the brand newbies. So you can 17 tell when you get down here, they start looking like 18 shit. And so it rotates. You can see these are all the 19 new ones and it phases like this. 20 So these are the most recent horses and then it 21 starts to go that way and those have been there closer to 22 a month. So like these guys just got here. 23 24 25 DR. S: [inaudible] obviously doesn't work for you, is that from a sale? MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: No. It's from the fires. 37 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 DR. S: Oh. Oh. Oh. 2 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 3 DR. S: 4 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: We spray-painted -- Hello. I have such a short memory. -- uh, we were 1.8 miles -- 5 yeah. No. We spray-painted everybody, because we were 6 [inaudible] -- 7 DR. S: Yeah. No. Su- -- such a short memory. 8 9 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: Uh, see, they all -- I keep 10 their stickers on them. So it's a visual identification 11 to my volunteers that these are quarantined animals. So 12 everything down here is isolation. 13 So that's why we do the shit once a month down here, 14 because, you know, if there's strangles or anything, we 15 don't want it cross-contaminating. So once the horses are 16 out of quarantine, uh, then we start over, scrape it, 17 open these panels and then the new horses go in. 18 These -- this horse right here, like Branston [ph], 19 she was a parking lot buy. A lot of people meet us in the 20 parking lot. So it's part of our incentive program. So we 21 have a lot that we meet in up in Riverside and anybody 22 can come dump their horse. So no questions asked, just 23 get it out of your yard. 24 25 DR. S: Do you find the same people are coming back with more of them? 38 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: Yeah. But they go and do a 2 hunting for me. So I don't -- you know, I don't speak 3 Spanish and it's a cultural issue. These people don't 4 give a shit about horses. 5 And so -- uh, and that's part of the reason, you 6 know, for me, as a -- a 13-year officer, I know what it 7 takes to do a 597.1 case. And so the punitive side of 8 things is -- is nonexistent when you have somebody that 9 says, no, I just got the horse a week ago. 10 I can't prove that they did it to the horse. You 11 know, oh, my friend just gave it to me, I just got it 12 from Mexico, oh, I found it, it was -- you know, and 13 their buddies aren't going to testify against them. 14 Their neighbors, uh, c- -- clearly didn't call. So 15 they're not going to do anything. You know, we had a -- a 16 34-horse, uh, BCS 1 and 2 case up in San Bernardino, F 17 [ph], you can Google it. 18 It was a massive case we did, 34 starved-raised 19 horses all BCS 1s and 2s. They don't give a shit. They 20 didn't go to press charges. I mean, I made the case for 21 them. I did photos, vet records, displayed it all, handed 22 it to the D.A. and said, here you go, do it. 23 They didn't do shit. So your -- your Riverside and 24 San Bernardino, uh, Animal Control is completely behind 25 the curve when it comes to how to d a cruelty case. They 39 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 2 3 don't give a shit. So they are more apt to show up there and bitch at me for administering Banamine to my own fucking horse. 4 So the moment I buy these horses at sale, if they're 5 sore, if they're colicky, you know, whatever it might be, 6 I carry all my injectables with me and I'm administering 7 it to my own horse that I purchased and they're more 8 likely to come up behind me and go, you know, you really 9 shouldn't be doing that in public. 10 Or what? There's no law that says I can't inject my 11 own horse with medication. It just has to be humane, and 12 I know what I'm doing, and it has to be mine, and I can't 13 charge money. 14 So they don't give a shit that I get these skinny 15 horses. They don't do anything, because there's no case 16 and I get that. You can't make a case when you don't have 17 probable cause in the elements of the crime and all of 18 these things that you need. 19 And so you get these people who call you guys or, 20 you know, uh, DAS or SDHS and bitch that these people 21 aren't getting punished. 22 You and I both know you can't go to a judge and say, 23 arrest them because they have a skinny horse. You've got 24 to prove that they knew what they were doing, they had 25 the horse, they were negligent and meet all the elements. 40 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 If you can't do it, the best -- next best scenario 2 is for me to step in, get the horse, rehab it or 3 euthanize it and move on and that's what I do. 4 So if I can't rehab it, I euthanize it and that's 5 my, you know, uh, probably claim to people hating me is 6 that I don't think that you can be pro or anti-slaughter 7 without being pro-euthanasia. 8 9 You know, people want to live in a fucking fantasy world, oh, slaughter is horrible, you know, it's 10 inhumane, then preach euthanasia, because as long as 11 these horses are standing in people's backyard suffering 12 -- you know, and that's the problem is that they can't 13 afford it. 14 I -- I -- I interview everybody that I get and I say 15 -- and I'm non-judgmental, I'm super chill with them, 16 that's why they trust me, why didn't you call a vet? Why 17 aren't you euthanizing the horse? What's stopping you 18 from putting this horse down? 19 I don't have $600. By the time you call the vet out, 20 pay for the barbiturates and removal, you're almost at 21 $600. They don't have the money. 22 So they call me and, you know, it sucks, but I've 23 been euthanizing animals at the shelter since I was 19 24 years old. It is what it is. 25 I would rather them call me and have the horse put 41 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 out of its misery than stand in a backyard the rest of 2 its life rotting away. You know, I mean, literally, I get 3 bones falling through the soles. 4 I'll go to auction -- you -- I mean, you can watch 5 our videos, week after week after week I'll get my mail 6 and pick up under their hoof and they've got their bone 7 falling through. Coffin bones are just right out the sole 8 and these people don't care. 9 And the problem is they drug the horses so bad to 10 where the auction house can't turn them away and now that 11 the auction knows that we're there, they would rather the 12 horse run through so that we legally buy it instead of 13 turning it away, because when they turn it away, the 14 horse disappears. 15 So the auction actually works in our favor and says, 16 hey, there's a really bad horse coming through, make sure 17 you get it, blah-blah-blah and they help us out, because 18 they know that horse is going to disappear if we don't 19 get it. 20 So -- but it's just -- it's a -- it's a horrible 21 situation that the -- the auction is in the perfect storm 22 of a cultural deficiency and, uh, an agency that seems to 23 be so far behind the times that, you know -- uh, and on 24 one hand, I guess it's a good -- 25 It's a blessing that they -- they don't have the 42 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 ability to prosecute these people, because then it would 2 scare everybody else off, you know, and -- and you and I 3 both know they're -- the court systems are a smack them 4 on the hand, tell them they can't own a horse for a year 5 and then they go right back to doing it. There's no system for these animals. So it's like I 6 7 tell these people online, the best chance I've got for 8 these horses is to get them out. So, you know, it is what 9 it is. And here, like we had our satellite site up on Cole 10 11 Grade [ph] where we had 45-ish horses and, uh, well and 12 electricity and shit went wrong over there. So we pulled 13 them back over here, but we're still looking for a second 14 location. So really, we don't want more than 100 here, but 15 16 because it was an oops over there, this time we're like 17 starting to fix the well and the electricity. We pulled 18 45 back over here, but that's just temporary. A lot of these horses came from Louisiana. So they 19 20 just stand in here 21 microchipped. Everybody's under Dr. T's care. 22 DR. S: 23 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: and free feed, they're Do you -- do you [inaudible] them? Mm-hmm. Yeah. And we just got 24 approved for a brand. So we'll start freeze branding 25 everybody too, because, you know, get 100 bays, they all 43 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 2 3 look the same. If they ever end up at auction again, I want to be able to spot them. So -- but -- yeah. 4 Uh, it's just -- it's unfortunate you get these 5 people that call you guys because they're -- they're 6 anti-euthanasia and they -- they don't like the fact that 7 I sit there and preach -- you know, it's like the horse 8 in the arena today, I sat there and I put her on video 9 and I said, tell me what you want me to do with this 10 11 horse. She can't walk, her legs are torn apart, she can't 12 walk, you know, her heartrate's through the fucking roof 13 even on pain medication and you want me to keep her alive 14 just for living out her days. 15 It's bullshit and they get upset; you know? Why do 16 you get more horses, you know, if you're euthanizing 17 those ones? 18 Well, tell me any municipal shelter -- and not that 19 I am one, but that's the mentality I have. I've worked in 20 the shelter industry since I was 19 years old. 21 I don't know any municipal shelter that says, all 22 right, we're full, take your dogs. No. We walk through, 23 we find the kennel cough, we find the behavioral, we find 24 the non-adoptables, we euthanize them and move on. 25 And that's my thing is that I'm not going to punish 44 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 the healthy horse that's standing in the pipeline waiting 2 to get saved because I can't make the hard decision and 3 euthanize a founder horse, a navicular horse, you know, a 4 behavioral case like that mare in the barn. 5 You know, she's got behavioral issues and lameness 6 issues. I didn't do it to you, I'm sorry, best I can 7 offer you is a humane end. So -- and that's what we do. 8 9 So we let them stand here. You know, if they're irremediably suffering, we euthanize them right away, 10 like the two horses we got in the last 24 hours. They'll 11 be euthanized today and then anybody else. 12 You know, we either do x-rays, give them a chance, 13 try to see if Previcox will help them out, you know, 14 Osphos, whatever it is we can do for them. 15 Sometimes we'll send them up to San Luis Rey and do 16 some surgeries if there's like a splint or a bone chip or 17 something like that. Other than that, they stand here in 18 this area for 30 days and they're out to adoptions. 19 So this is our most populated area. So when -- the 20 first 30 days are here, I don't adopt them out, because I 21 don't know what they have, I don't know what their 22 behavior is. But you can see all the other areas, those 23 are free-flowing. 24 You know, we average an adoption a day. So we rescue 25 about 500 horses a year and we average an adoption a day, 45 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 we have a 10 percent euthanasia rate. So we're well below 2 national average. So -MR. PEREA: 3 4 were -- was here? MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 5 6 When was the last time that DAS or SDHS Uh, DAS was here about three, four weeks ago for my orphan. So -MR. PEREA: 7 Okay. What do they typically do? Do they 8 come and just do the investigation that they got a 9 complaint on and then -MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 10 Same thing I'm doing with 11 you, walk through. Most of the time I just turn them 12 loose and make sure they know that this is quarantine, 13 don't touch, don't cross-contaminate, [inaudible] on 14 yourself. So I mean, I have nothing to hide. You're not going 15 16 to find an empty water, you're not going to find a long 17 hoof, you're not going to find anything. So I don't care. 18 Like I said, the worst you're ever going to find is shit. When you come on the end of the month, that's what 19 20 you're going to find is a month's worth of shit in my 21 quarantine area and that's just -- Rome wasn't built in a 22 day, you know, and that is my -- probably my number one 23 goal for 2018 is I really, really want to get away from 24 that. 25 I just brought in a new guy as a tenant who is going 46 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 to do full-time tractoring. Um, but no, it's the same 2 thing, they just -- this is a complaint, this is that; 3 you know? 4 And then you get the chick from San Diego Humane 5 who's a fucking accountant for 12 years and now she slid 6 right into a sergeant position trying to talk to me about 7 597.1, like I did it for 13 years, don't -- don't try to 8 tell me about the law, that I enforced that law when 9 you've been doing it for two years. 10 And so she, you know, tries to tell me shit about, 11 you know, euthanasia, and this, and that, and I'm like, I 12 can do it. Uh, you know, I could shoot every fucking 13 horse here, every horse, line them up and shoot them and 14 it's my right, they're my property. 15 As long as I'm doing it humanely, I'm completely 16 within my right. And there's animal shelters across the 17 country who kill healthy animals all day, every day for 18 population, for budget, you know, for whatever. 19 I don't euthanize for space or age, only behavioral 20 and medical reasons, but that's not to say that there's 21 not a time I won't. 22 You know, if I get a batch of 20 horses and I get a 23 phone call that says, hey, we're going to ship them or 24 you buy them, if I don't have room for them and I don't 25 have the budget, you better believe I'm going to buy them 47 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 and I'm going to euthanize them, because I'm going to 2 spare them from going to Mexico, no apologies. 3 But she likes to get on my ass about, you know, the 4 fact that I do the euthanasia here and the people are 5 bitching and complaining about the euthanizing and stuff, 6 I don't give a shit. 7 I can euthanize every fucking horse on this property 8 and there's not a goddamn thing anybody can do. Am I 9 going to do it? No. But I could, it's completely legal. 10 So, you know, that's my argument with her is that 11 she's so concerned about perception, I don't give a shit. 12 My moral compass is to these veins, not to anybody else. 13 I don't care what the critics say. 14 You know, they're not here. I've got 300 volunteers 15 that frequent this place every month; you know? I answer 16 to them and these horses and that's it. 17 So, you know, that's what pisses me off about her is 18 that she's -- she's -- she bends so bad to the public 19 outcry, they're euthanizing healthy horses, healthy -- 20 no, I'm not, but if I did, it's legal -- absolutely legal 21 and there's shelters all over the country that do it 22 every fucking day. 23 You know, I had to do it. I euthanized hundreds of 24 dogs with San Diego Animal Control that didn't do a damn 25 thing wrong. They weren't biters, they weren't kennel 48 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 cough, they were nothing, but too many black dogs back in 2 the early '90s. That's just the way it was back then. MR. PEREA: 3 4 Is that Sergeant M [ph] that you're talking about? 5 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 6 MR. PEREA: 7 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: No. Oh. Not her name, can't remember 8 it, which is ironic, because, you know, one of the chicks 9 over there used to be a foster for us. And I -- and I get 10 it, you guys are sick of the phone calls. 11 I get it. I'm sick of the fucking phone calls, but 12 I'm not going to stop doing what I'm doing just because 13 there's people bitching; you know? I don't care. You -- you -- we went to the Pride Parade and had 14 15 pita on our ass for riding horses in the parade; you 16 know? Am I going to stop riding in the parade? No. You know, I get it, gunshot euthanasia in California 17 18 is scary, they don't get it. All across the country 19 everybody's shooting their horses. It's a far better, 20 quicker way. The problem that I have and why we started moving 21 22 towards gunshot euthanasia is that we started getting 23 more into these rank horses and, you know, like that gray 24 in the barn you try to touch her, she'll fucking kill 25 you. 49 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 I mean, we couldn't even administer a sedative with 1 2 the vet today without her trying to kill us. You -- you 3 mean to tell me that I'm going to try to restrain that 4 animal and pump 120 CCs into her neck while she flops 5 around like a fish and that's going to be the end of her 6 life. 7 Not on my watch, sorry. Nope. She'll be eating her 8 head in a bucket and she'll be gone with a hollow point 9 .22, she won't even know. 10 And I get that in California, that that's scary, 11 because we all massage our dogs and get acupuncture and, 12 you know, feed raw food and shit, I get that. 13 People in California don't understand, but the way 14 that I ended up getting into it was my veterinarian told 15 me, you know, you've got to consider this, because you're 16 starting to get rank horses. 17 And what am I going to do, lay on a yearling that's 18 never been handled, but has, you know, a deformity to 19 euthanize it? That's the end of its life? Nope. 20 So we prefer gunshot euthanasia here, because the 21 horse has no idea it's coming and the amount of rank and 22 unhandled or defensive horses that don't like restraint 23 that come through here, that is not okay for me to watch 24 them have to be restrained to the point of fear just for 25 a chemical euthanasia. 50 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 So, you know, gunshot's AVMA, UC-Davis. It's a 2 widely accepted and practi- -- practiced method. I was 3 trained by Dr. G. We've been using the technique here 4 for years. 5 I've never fucked up. You know, I've seen chemical 6 euthanasias go wrong a million times and, you know -- so 7 if they're upset about it and they can show up and outbid 8 me by the horse, then keep it themselves, but it's my 9 rescue, my choice, my business. 10 So -- and if they don't like it, I don't care. So -- 11 MR. PEREA: 12 13 Are you, um -- is there a limit on the amount of horses you can have per acre, etc.? MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: Well, with our new permit, 14 uh, our business limit, we only ask for 100. So that's 15 why I'm saying I don't -- I don't want as many that -- 16 that are here right now. 17 MR. PEREA: Mm-hmm. 18 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: The only reason we have about 19 45 over is because we shut down the satellite site and 20 we're still looking for a second site. 21 MR. PEREA: Okay. 22 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: So, um, is there a limit 23 currently? No. With the new permit that we're getting and 24 we applied for, uh, so that we can get more into 25 commercial stuff, uh, 100 with the rescue, but I've got 51 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 five residences here. 2 MR. PEREA: Mm-hmm. 3 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: So we're going to -- we're 4 going to have at least 120 horses here because of the 5 residential aspect of it. So -- 6 MR. PEREA: Who's that permit through? 7 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 8 MR. PEREA: 9 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: So county, like code or -- 10 MR. PEREA: 11 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 12 The county. Mm-hmm. -- it's not through animal control? Mm-mm. No. Animal control only does dog kennel licensing. So -- 13 MR. PEREA: I see. 14 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: -- Riverside is hard to get a 15 horse license, San Diego is hard to get a dog license -- 16 or not dog license, but kennel license. 17 MR. PEREA: I see. 18 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: So all the dog breeders go to 19 Riverside and all the horse people come to San Diego, but 20 -- yeah. No. 21 That's why we chose it out here, because we had a 22 lot of freedom with the numbers that we can have and like 23 I said, the only reason that we're putting a limit on it 24 is because we, uh, get these horses for people. 25 Um, so for instance, let's say there's a horse -- 52 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 oh, she'd already left. 2 Uh, let's say there's a super healthy horse at 3 auction that's nice, pretty, like we got a little grulla 4 last month, somebody wants the horse, but they don't have 5 the heart to show up at a meat auction or maybe they live 6 a county away and they see the horse and go, oh, my God, 7 I want that, we'll bid on their behalf, buy the horse, 8 vet them, make sure that they're okay, we'll bring the 9 horse back here and we'll board it for a month for 10 quarantine for them so that they can take it home after 11 adheres quarantine. 12 But for us to be able to commercially charge for 13 that and recoup, we need a permit, I don't want to break 14 any laws. So that's why we applied for the permit so that 15 we could do boarding, rehabilitation and stuff like that. 16 MR. PEREA: Mm-hmm. 17 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: So to bring in additional 18 income. So we're at the tail end of it. Right now we're 19 just reworking the fire plan, going to tear down a lot of 20 this wood stuff and put it up with more fire-friendly, 21 you know, setup. 22 Like this -- the -- all of this will be wiped. We're 23 going to put a barn right here. So none of this is 24 permanent. So we'll put a barn -- this is a separate 25 parcel. 53 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 So this is a structural permit and this is going to 2 be a new medical barn and then, uh, that over there, 3 we're going to tear out the wood and put fire-friendly 4 fencing. So now that we know it's going to be ours, we're 5 going to invest the money into making it prettier. So up 6 until that point -- 7 DR. S: When you say medical barn, is that going 8 to be your quarantine barn or that's like what you have 9 up top now? 10 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 11 DR. S: 12 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: It'll be for the quarantine. Okay. Currently, we have to bring 13 the quarantine medical cases, if they're really bad, up 14 there and although, we've never had any cross- 15 contamination, because we're super anal about back in the 16 stalls and [inaudible], it's still uncomfortable to me if 17 like I get one volunteer and forgets and touches. 18 So I would rather keep -- like these coughing horses 19 that have all been here, you know, just a couple of 20 weeks, if they get really bad, they get a secondary 21 infection, they start failing to thrive, I've got to pull 22 them up there and I don't want to do that. 23 DR. S: 24 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 25 So you'd have to [inaudible] -So we're going to build a second barn for anything that's under 30 days or 54 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 communicable down here. 2 DR. S: Mm-hmm. 3 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: So up there would be more 4 like wound care, stall rest, you know, like when we do 5 sesamoid surgeries, you have to leave them up in the 6 stall rest or something, but this would be more for 7 communicable issues down here. So -- but -- yeah. 8 MR. PEREA: All right. 9 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: So that's the place. You 10 know, it's the same -- and just like I tell everybody 11 here, you know, if I could wave my wan- -- magic wand, I 12 would love to have shelter over all of this stuff, you 13 know, but it's not required by law currently and a lot of 14 these horses came from areas that don't have shelter and 15 if somebody wants to buy me a shelter, feel free, it's in 16 my goal list. 17 You know, my goal is this area down here is 18 completely sheltered by the end of 2018, but, you know, 19 if they have to stand here for 30 days in nice ambient 20 temperature, you know, we don't freeze out here, we don't 21 snow, we don't -- you know, the worst that happens is 22 summertime and we set up sprinklers in the summertime and 23 put up shade cloth. So it is what it is. 24 25 MR. PEREA: All right. Do you have any questions or anything? 55 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 DR. S: I don't think I do. 2 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: Uh, I mean, you're welcome to 3 talk to any and all the vets we use. We have eight 4 different veterinarians that we use. T's our in-house 5 vet. So he's here onsite. 6 We have our internal medicine and our surgeon, we 7 have P [ph], H [ph], Dr. L [ph] who's also at SLR, Dr. 8 S's [ph] on maternity leave, but she worked here for 18 9 months, Dr. M [ph], he does, uh -- he's our overflow and 10 he does our, uh, cattle and stuff like that, goats. 11 12 So on occasion, we get goats, cattle, pigs and he 13 does our overflow. D G, like I said, he was our 14 founding board member. He was on our board for 11 years. 15 So a ton of -- ton of DVMs that'll tell you that they 16 work with us and -- 17 18 MR. PEREA: So where was the rescue before it was here physically? 19 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 20 MR. PEREA: 21 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 22 MR. PEREA: 23 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: Escondido. Oh, okay. So -- You moved here --- we just outgrew it. We 24 were 60 horses down there and the, uh, demand is just 25 getting huge. 56 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 We had all the shelters calling us wanting to dump 1 2 horses on us and -- you know, like Riverside right now 3 they've got two stallions that they don't want that were 4 part of the humane case that they don't want there. So we're making room for them. And so it was just 5 6 getting to be such a demand. We were getting huge and that's the irony of it is 7 8 like, you know, we were the golden children and we got so 9 big that all these stupid rescue bitches started going, 10 oh, my God, how are they making all this money, how are 11 they getting this beautiful ranch, how are they supposed 12 to -- we can't even get five-dollar donations and -- I 13 put up a post and I'll get $1,500 to back a horse like 14 that. 15 My village is so dedicated. I make every single 16 person that donates to this place feel like they own 17 these horses. I will send them personalized videos, I 18 have flown people out here, you know; anything and 19 everything that I can do to make you feel like this is 20 your project. 21 I have one donor who's in New Jersey that gives 22 $20,000 a year and she's never set foot on this ranch, 23 but goddammit, I make her feel like this is her place. 24 25 I send her videos, pictures, everything, you name it to make her know -- you know, I'll go live and walk 57 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 through this place so that she feels what she's giving 2 towards. 3 I'll take, you know, like surgeries -- I'll take 4 them along for live surgeries and shit like that, because 5 that's what they want; you know? Forgotten Horses Rescue 6 buys these horses at fucking auction and then you never 7 hear about them again, they're gone. 8 Oh, it's in foster, it's in pasture. Bullshit, you 9 fucking euthanized it and you're not going to talk about 10 it and that's fine, euthanasia is better than slaughter, 11 but that's the claim to fame is I'll give you the good, 12 the bad, the ugly. 13 14 15 I'm not afraid, I don't care and that's -- it -- it makes me famous, but it also pisses people off. So I'm happy to go head to head with anybody and, 16 you know, I -- I own what I don't do right, I fail 17 forward, there's a million things here I want to improve, 18 but Rome wasn't built in a day and if it's better than 19 slaughter -- are they all coming in skinny and leaving 20 fat, are they all getting vet care, you know, am I 21 letting anything stand here and suffer? Nope. 22 So I can sleep at night knowing that, but, you know, 23 these other rescues, they don't understand how we're able 24 to be a multimillion dollar nonprofit and have a ranch of 25 this capacity, although, it's ugly and rundown right now, 58 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 now that we're buying it it's going to be much more 2 esthetically pleasing when we fix it, but they don't get 3 it. 4 They don't understand how I'm so successful. So the 5 same reason people love me is the same reason they hate 6 me. And so, you know, I don't care. Like I said, I answer 7 to the horses, I don't give a shit what people think. 8 9 You either love me or hate me. Eat a dick, that's my motto. Like literally, that is what I tell people, you 10 don't like it, start your own rescue, don't care. So, you 11 know, people get mad, oh, you're so unprofessional, you 12 can't say that, you can't do this, you can't do that. 13 My daughter's 11 years old and she did a video and 14 she did this, oh, my God, they called CPS. Shut up, dude, 15 you know, she's 11. It's like kids doing this, they don't 16 care. They'll -- they'll call for anything. 17 They called that we're running an illegal daycare. 18 They called that -- you know, they told CPS I was 19 injecting myself with fucking Ketamine, because -- I, uh, 20 gave myself Imitrex, I have migraines and I pop myself 21 with Imitrex. 22 I had to go piss test for CPS. Uh, they said I was 23 doing fucking Ketamine. Like they'll -- anything they can 24 say about me they will. Whatever. 25 As long as you keep talking about me, I don't care. 59 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 I have 500 horses a year that are appreciative that 2 they're out of the pipeline. So -- 3 FEMALE: 4 disappeared. I was looking for you. I thought you 5 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 6 MR. PEREA: 7 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 8 9 All right. MR. PEREA: Hello. FEMALE: 11 MR. PEREA: 12 DR. S: 13 FEMALE: 14 MR. PEREA: 15 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 16 MR. PEREA: 17 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 18 MR. PEREA: 19 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 20 MR. PEREA: 21 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 23 This is R, she lives here. 10 22 No. Hi. How are you guys doing? Good. Peachy. Peachy. Do you -- you don't live here? Mm-hmm. Oh, you do too. Mm-hmm. It's a nice house. Uh, in the castle. I like that. It's the other reason they don't like me, I drive a BMW and I live in a nice house. How can a rescuer have nice nails, nice hair, live 24 in a nice house and drive a nice car? I must be stealing 25 donations. 60 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 FEMALE: 2 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 3 But have shitty boots. underwear too. 4 DR. S: 5 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 6 FEMALE: 7 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 8 FEMALE: 9 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: Me too. Yeah. What was this one for? FEMALE: 11 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 12 FEMALE: 13 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: Uh, I don't know. Just because? Yeah. Waste resources? Yeah. At least you got a nice drive. 15 MR. PEREA: 16 DR. S: 17 MR. PEREA: 18 DR. S: 19 So -- but -- So we -- did we get another complaint? 10 14 True. So I have a hole in my Any -- any questions at all or -- I don't -- I don't think -- um --- you -- you good? Yeah. I don't think I have any questions. 20 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 21 FEMALE: 22 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: Who's here with the trailer? I don't know. 23 saw a red -- 24 FEMALE: 25 MR. PEREA: They're pulling in. I just Oh, I don't know. Are you -- are you usually this open 61 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 2 with anyone that comes to do an investigation? Okay. MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: I can put -- anything I'm 3 telling you is on the Internet. Like, uh, I'm Internet 4 famous. I sit and rant all fucking day on the Internet. 5 And like I'm an open book. I -- I have nothing to 6 hide, nothing to hide. Uh, I'm going to the first one to 7 point out my flaws to you. I'm -- that was the first 8 thing I told you, the worst thing you're going to find 9 here is our shit. 10 That's my biggest problem and I'm the one that's 11 always griping and bitching about it, but, uh, they're 12 volunteers. 13 MR. PEREA: Mm-hmm. 14 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: Everybody wanted to leave for 15 the holidays. What am I going to do, you know, like tell 16 everybody -- 17 FEMALE: 18 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 19 FEMALE: 20 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: You can't leave. So -- No family. No. And so, you know -- and 21 the horses aren't going to die from Christmas to New 22 Years of not getting mucked. Is it ideal? No. 23 And then we had the fires on top of that. So we 24 moved everything to Del Mar and what stayed here was 25 contagious. So those, you know, went five days. 62 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 So, you know, uh, that -- that's going to be our 2 worst thing, but, uh, I -- I have nothing to hide. Like I 3 don't -- I really truly don't give a shit what these 4 people think, because I'm in the arena doing it, I'm the 5 one boxing. 6 You guys are sitting in the fucking stands wishing 7 you could be me, wishing you could do this and that 8 really is all it is is jealousy. 9 I mean, because the reality of it is if you guys go 10 and you read what they really say about me is that I'm 11 fat, um, I have ugly teeth, because I got my teeth done, 12 I get too much Botox, I have fake tits, um -- 13 FEMALE: 14 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 15 You have a big nose too. -- oh, yeah, I've got a big nose, that I should get a nose job next -- 16 FEMALE: And wrinkles, by the way. 17 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: -- um, that I drive a BMW, 18 that I live in a nice house, that God-forbid I just went 19 to Las Vegas with my kids for Christmas to a Britney 20 Spears' concert, I must've sucked somebody off for that. 21 Uh, that's all it is about. It's not even about the 22 fucking horses. Everything is about me, and tearing me 23 down, and what I look like, and what I'm driving, and who 24 I'm fucking, am I kissing a girl, am I doing a guy. 25 It has nothing to do with these horses. Uh, it's 63 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 comical to me. It's so fucking stupid. You know, and 2 obviously, if we're doing anything wrong, why are the 3 shelters sending their horses here; you know? 4 Like half of these horses are from the animal 5 shelters and they're out here. You know, K [ph] from 6 Riverside, she's out here all the time. K [ph] from San 7 Diego is here all the time. GR[ph] from DAS is out here. 8 9 You know, most of our volunteers are first 10 responders, firefighters, [inaudible] nurses, you know, a 11 lot of mandated reporters, social workers. We -- I mean, 12 we have -- obviously, I have the mouth of a fucking 13 sailor. 14 So we don't attract, you know, a lot of the softer 15 crowd. We don't get snowflakes out here, we get -- we get 16 your -- your typical like rough-around-the-edges, cops, 17 firefighters, nurses who can deal with it. 18 And you have to have that, because you never know 19 when I'm going to be cutting a horse open on this ranch 20 to pull out ovaries and I can't have snowflakes walking 21 around that are freaking out that, you know, we're -- and 22 I tell everybody, hey, I've got to do a necropsy today. 23 You know, if you don't want to see it, don't see it, 24 but if everybody wants to come and see it -- if I've got 25 a horse that dies of cowlick and I want to know, you 64 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 know, that it's pulling one over its spleen, I'm going to 2 open the fucking horse up and know. 3 And I'm very blessed that I've worked with DVMs for 4 15 years that have walked me through necropsies and told 5 me how to do it. When they're dead, they're dead and they 6 get mad at that. You know, she -- what -- what -- Mengele, the -- the 7 8 doctor from the Nazi Germany -- they like to call me 9 Mengele, because I'll open up a horse when it's dead to 10 see what happened. You know, I find masses this big or, you know, if 11 12 I've got to harvest eyeballs, they're dead. I loved the 13 horse while it's alive, but they're dead. And I'm sure if you worked the field long enough, 14 15 when you have to pump a -- a dog full of, you know, 16 Fatal-Plus, when it's dead, you dead, you chuck it in a 17 fucking barrel. You're not going to sit there and go, oh, 18 I'm so sorry, puppy, I'm so so- -- it's dead. 19 It's science to me. You know, Dr. G, uh, walked me 20 through all of this shit for over 10 years, it's just 21 science. And so, you know, the -- if they have to die, at 22 23 least I don't want it to be in vain and I want to know 24 why. 25 And if I can find a mass, if I can, you know, find 65 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 an adhesion, if I can find whatever it is -- and 2 sometimes, you know, our -- our vet will do it, because 3 I'm stumped, but I've been doing this long enough to know 4 where I can find a torsion, I -- you know, all these 5 things and I'm lucky that I've worked in the veterinary 6 field with incredible veterinarians that have teach- -- 7 taught me, you know, a shit ton of stuff, but people 8 don't like it and I don't care. 9 10 11 FEMALE: Yes. The bigger -- the bigger we get the easier people -MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: Well, I'm not out here doing 12 cowlick surgery, but when they're dead, I'm completely 13 within my right to cut them open. So thank you. 14 MR. PEREA: 15 DR. S: Sure. I have one question. Um, are you 16 getting your meds from the vet here or do you have 17 an account set up? 18 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 19 DR. S: 20 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 21 DR. S: 22 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: Both. And then one of them signs on it? Mm-hmm. Okay. Mm-hmm. Everything goes 23 through the vet. So -- yeah. We don't have our DEA 24 anymore, I don't want it. I don't want my 66 here. I have 25 too many volunteers. 66 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 I don't want [inaudible], I don't Fatal-Plus. So now 1 2 that we do gunshot euthanasia I don't keep any of the 3 controlled substances here. So all of that goes through 4 him. 5 When we were smaller, uh, and I had a tech onsite, 6 then we used to have our 66 and have Fatal-Plus here, but 7 I don't use it anymore. 8 9 If it sits there, I don't want to have to deal with the logs, I don't want to have to worry that someone's 10 going to break in and steal my Ketamine. So I don't have 11 any of that stuff here. So anything I have is not 12 controlled. So -- 13 14 15 16 MR. PEREA: All right. Well, thank you for -- so much for the tour and all the information. MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: [inaudible] 17 FEMALE: 18 DR. S: 19 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 20 MR. PEREA: 21 22 Take a horse with you. Or 20. Yeah. So what's next? Um, I just need to get back to both the humane society and DAS, that's pretty much it. MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: They're welcome out here. 23 Like I said, GR was just out here not long ago doing 24 the call on the baby. They called, because we should 25 have an igloo fee- -- feeder. 67 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 MR. PEREA: What was the outcome on that -- 2 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 3 MR. PEREA: 4 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: IE -- -- do you know? -- Insufficient Evidence, 5 shit closed it out. We've never had an issue. We've never 6 had a single violation here. I've never had a citation, 7 I've never had anything here. MR. PEREA: 8 9 No one's ever issued you a, uh, notice of violation or nothing? MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 10 Not an NOC, nothing. No. No 11 Notice of Complaint, no NOC, noth- -- the worse we've 12 ever gotten here is from the fire department to cut our 13 trees and that wasn't even on our dime, we just moved 14 here. So no, never had a case, never had anything, because 15 16 everything here is under vet care. Everything is under 17 vet care. Every single horse is under our veterinarian's 18 care. 19 Everything is seen within 24 hours and I have record 20 upon record upon record. They'll show every horse is 21 being treated and under a vet's care. 22 So, you know, like I said, there's -- I'm not -- uh, 23 I don't have a five-breeding reservoir. I don't know what 24 your -- your codes are up in L.A., but I can tell you 25 every code here in San Diego County, 62, 669, all the 68 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 2 codes, 997, all your PCs. There's no five breeding -- breeding reservoir, we 3 have no, uh, permit necessary for running this outside of 4 the code, which we're getting, um, but outside of that, 5 no -- no NOCs, no -- no cites, no 121s. 6 I don't know what you guys call them up there, but 7 if anything, it's the opposite, they're all sending us 8 horses and half of my volunteers, like I said, are either 9 in the veterinarian/animal control world or first 10 responders. So -- 11 MR. PEREA: 12 DR. S: 13 MR. PEREA: Okay. Good times. Sounds good. Well, we'll get out of your 14 hair then and let you get on with your day. Of course 15 we'd show up on the busiest day of your week. 16 17 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: to see it. You get to see. I mean, this is the reality. 18 FEMALE: 19 MR. PEREA: 20 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 21 MR. PEREA: 22 23 It's good. I'm glad you get A real vet is here. Yeah. You know -- No. He was here and the farriers are here. So -MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: Well, um, I mean, they -- 24 they get a paid a -- uh, a nice chunk of change. So it's 25 -- it's not that they're just here -- you know, I know a 69 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 lot of these rescues get, oh, I'll call a vet out every 2 couple months. No. My vet's here at least two days a week, lot of 3 4 times three and I always have something at the clinic. So 5 there's no chump change at this place. $85,000 a month to 6 run it. 7 MR. PEREA: 8 FEMALE: 9 10 Wow. So with something like this, how long does it take for you to finish your investigation and either, um -- to close it or whatever? MR. PEREA: 11 Well, I'm not -- uh, I'm not 12 specifically here on one specific incidence, uh on one 13 complaint. 14 We were asked to come here by the San Diego Animal 15 Control and the humane society, because there was some, 16 uh, possible conflict, that they weren't able to do an 17 unbiased investigation. So they asked us to come take a 18 look. 19 FEMALE: Mm-hmm. 20 MR. PEREA: 21 FEMALE: 22 MR. PEREA: So that's why I'm here. Mm-hmm. So now I'll just get back to them. But 23 based on everything we've just talked about, I -- I don't 24 think you're ever going to have a complete closed case to 25 where they're never going to come out, because if they 70 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 have -- if they have an allegation of something, they 2 have to come out and investigate it. Uh -- 3 4 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: I'm okay with that. 5 MR. PEREA: 6 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 7 I -- I -- and I get that and Yeah. My problem is you guys can never answer what I'm being investigated for. 8 It's always oh, we've got a series of calls and 9 complaints. No. Tell me, is it a failure to provide care, 10 is it husbandry, is it that I'm euthanizing, is it that 11 I'm hoarding? Uh, I want to know what these allegations 12 are -- 13 MR. PEREA: Well -- 14 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 15 MR. PEREA: -- and nobody can tell me. -- and I'll -- and I'll tell you, as an 16 investigator, when we do cases, I -- I specifically will 17 go out and address the issue that's being complained 18 about. 19 So if you call me and say, we want you to go to this 20 place to investigate, I'm not going to take a complaint 21 that says, oh, yeah, you know, they're euthanizing, 22 they're -- you know, the -- the people there are crazy or 23 whatever complaints that I'm sure you've seen, I need a 24 specific allegation about an animal that's either not 25 being provided care or is injured, neglected or in 71 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 cruelty. So I'll come out and say my complaints about 2 that horse. 3 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 4 MR. PEREA: Mm-hmm. So what I need to see is what vet care 5 was provided, um, you know, how did the wound or whatever 6 it is that we're investigating occur, just the basics 7 about 597. Um, and I'll tell you that's -- that's why I'm 8 here. You'll know why I'm here -- 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: MR. PEREA: Mm-hmm. -- which is, uh -- uh, I'm explaining to you that the -- the specific inc- -- incident. MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: So was it a spec- -- specific horse today? MR. PEREA: Mine, no. No. Mine -- my investigation is related to a possible conflict, uh -MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: And my frustration with San 17 Diego Humane is that she comes out here and questions me 18 about laws that don't exist. You want to talk to me about 19 597 all day long, I'm cool with that. 20 Don't tell me I can't euthanize these horses; don't 21 sit and question me and put me up against the wall about 22 laws that aren't even in existence. 23 MR. PEREA: 24 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 25 Yeah. That's my issue is that you're wasting my fucking time talking to me about stuff 72 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 that's not even illegal to begin with, because there's 2 nothing that you can do regardless. 3 4 5 So why are we wasting our breath talking about something that isn't even a law to begin with? MR. PEREA: And -- and -- and that's a really good 6 point, because that does happen, unfortunately. But my 7 recommendation is going to be to them that if they get a 8 complaint, then it has to be specific. 9 So it has to be this animal with this description in 10 this area, has this ailment, it's not being treated or 11 whatever it is. So then they'll show up maybe with a 12 picture or something and say, I'm here for this horse, 13 can we see it? 14 And then you'll walk over, look at that horse, you 15 can provide them the vet care that's been provided, etc. 16 and then -- 17 18 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: less. Like that -- 19 MR. PEREA: 20 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 21 And that frustrates me far Yeah. -- that's exactly what I'm saying that I'm looking for -- 22 MR. PEREA: Yeah. 23 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: -- what is the complaint? 24 Because this shit, wasting three hours doing this five 25 times a year, is so monotonously boring. 73 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 It is the same song and dance every fucking time. I 2 do the walk, show you through, I turn you loose, go look 3 at hooves, go look at whatever, everybody gets dentals, 4 everybody gets trimmed, everybody gets everything, 5 they're all vaccinated, they're all under care. 6 7 If you come here and say, hey, I want to look at the horse in the barn that can't walk, I'm cool with that -- 8 MR. PEREA: Yeah. 9 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: -- because not everybody 10 knows that that horse is getting proper care. Maybe they 11 don't know, maybe they don't understand -- 12 MR. PEREA: 13 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 14 15 Mm-hmm. -- maybe they weren't here when the vet came. I'm all right with that. People can assume the worst, but when I have to go 16 through the whole general song and dance, this is so and 17 so, this is so and so, such a fucking waste of 18 everybody's time. It's such a waste of time. 19 I mean, I can sit and jerk people off all fucking 20 day long with this stuff, because, uh, it's the same shit 21 over and over and over and over again. And my volunteers 22 get so fucking sick of it. Like this is their life. 23 They don't get paid to do this shit. They come here, 24 they spend time away from their kids, their jobs, their 25 homes. 74 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 vdThey come here and bust their fucking asses and 2 they are so sick of watching their love and their joy and 3 their efforts be questioned with this broad allegation; 4 you know? 5 We can all sit and laugh if you come in the barn and 6 say that Magnum [ph], the orphan's being neglected, 7 because, you know, we have thousands of dollars in vet 8 care on that thing, but when you just come and make a 9 broad assumption that we're doing anything wrong -- and 10 not saying you are, but the calls -- 11 MR. PEREA: Mm-hmm. 12 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: -- that's where we just get 13 like completely over it, because we're busting our 14 fucking asses. 15 Her and I are out here at fucking 1:00 in the 16 morning, you know, feeding the orphan, giving medication. 17 We were, at midnight last night, pumping that horse full 18 of pain meds, you know, setting up IVs, popping in 19 catheters, you name it. 20 Like we're -- this is hours away from our kids, 21 hours away from sleep and people make the allegation that 22 we're doing anything negligent is just fucking ridiculous 23 and it's all about being the big bitch. 24 25 FEMALE: Well, and they say, you know, we starve our horses, we don't feed our horses. That's a regular 75 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 [inaudible]. I mean, it gets low and it -- 2 MR. PEREA: 3 FEMALE: 4 Yeah. -- then it gets replenished and these horses have never gone without a meal. 5 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 6 FEMALE: 7 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 8 FEMALE: 9 Not a day. And -Ever. -- the -- the stories that they come up with and make up it's beyond crazy. 10 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 11 FEMALE: 12 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: They -- But --- I mean, they seriously 13 must think that I am magical in my ability to pull the 14 wool over as many fucking people's eyes as I can, because 15 the reality is these volunteers, they do a two-hour 16 orientation and they're cut loose. I've got nothing to 17 hide. 18 There's not a single place on this ranch, anybody 19 can come in. Do my orientation, sign your fucking waivers 20 and you are clear to go anywhere and everywhere on this 21 ranch. If I had something to hide, I would have blocked- 22 off areas and -- no. It's open door. 23 You know, I had one bitch that was all over the 24 Internet, during the fires, trying to get up my shit and 25 I said, come out here, come out here, I'll give you a 76 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 2 fucking tour. She came out here, she apologized, she hugged me and 3 went and put it all over the Internet that she was wrong 4 and she was sorry and that's -- that's the norm. 5 These people who are calling you don't live in the 6 fucking state and they've never been here and that's 7 the bullshit. So I -- I've offered -- D T who runs, uh, 8 Tracy Acres up in -- 9 10 FEMALE: Mm-hmm. MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: -- up in Northern California, 11 she's offered to pay the way of any critic -- any critic 12 who wants a plane ticket to come out here and see this. 13 She'll pay their plane ticket. 14 Not a single one will take her up on it, because 15 it's so much easier to fucking sit there on the Internet 16 and jerk yourself off, diddling yourself to my -- my life 17 here and that's what they do. 18 They just sit there and oh, I'm going to just 19 fucking get all over her shit today, oh, my God, she died 20 her hair purple, oh, my God, she did this, she did that. 21 I had a video once where the key was in my hand, I 22 had a rental car and I went like this with my hair and 23 they saw the tag, oh, she's showing off her new BMW. Oh, 24 my God, please. Like I can't do shit without these 25 people. So it's just crazy town. 77 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 2 FEMALE: It's, uh -- uh, and it sounds crazy, but it's -- it's true. 3 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 4 FEMALE: 5 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: Let's go to Shedrow, read it. It is sadly true. Read it. You'll read all -- I 6 went on a date two weeks ago, within three hours, it was 7 on the Internet. Three hours it was on the Internet. 8 They follow me, I can't go to lunch with out photo- 9 -- it's like fucking paparazzi. We go to lunch up in 10 Riverside, there's pictures of us eating our fucking 11 lunch all over the Internet. 12 MR. PEREA: Wow. 13 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: It's crazy. These people are 14 psycho. I have death threats on me. Like I have told 15 people here the scariest part of my life is when we have 16 events that are open to the public, because I don't know 17 who's here to shoot me. 18 They want to kill me. I have it all over that 19 they're going to kill me, they're going to set my place 20 on fire, you know, they can't wait for the day that 21 someone comes up and pops me in the face. They're crazy, 22 crazy. 23 MR. PEREA: Wow. 24 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 25 MR. PEREA: So -- All right. 78 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 1 2 though; you know? 3 DR. S: 4 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 5 FEMALE: 6 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 7 FEMALE: 8 [inaudible] boiling water. And all we want to do is save horses -- all All right. Well, you have my contact info. So if you have any questions, feel free to call me. MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: Cool. If you want to adopt a horse, come by and get one. 13 MR. PEREA: 14 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 15 [inaudible] Right. MR. PEREA: 11 12 I'll stay away from that. for saving horses. It's crazy. 9 10 -- it's life in the big city, All right. And then you'll be a conflict of interest too. 16 MR. PEREA: Thank you. 17 DR. S: 18 MS. KNUTTILA-COCHRAN: 19 FEMALE: 20 MR. PEREA: 21 DR. S: 22 MR. PEREA: Thank you. Thank you. Drive careful. All righty then. [inaudible] No. She's pretty thorough. Did you get 23 that whole thing about sucking the dick? Did you like 24 that? 25 DR. S: [inaudible] 79 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 MR. PEREA: 2 DR. S: 3 Okay. Yeah. And like it's very cool that she's really frustrated. 4 DR. S: That's her motto. 5 DR. S: Her motto is to eat a dick. 6 MR. PEREA: Oh, that's right, eat a dick. Eat a 7 dick. I misquoted her. Since we're going to be on fucking 8 TMZ this afternoon, apparently. DR. S: 9 [inaudible]. She owns it [inaudible] to say 10 that. [inaudible]. She mentioned that [inaudible], but I 11 didn't see any. [inaudible]. Goats -- they have goats 12 too. 13 MR. PEREA: Well, and that's the thing, it's like 14 you're going to have a sick animal -- sick and injured 15 animals here. So it's like, did you see any sick or 16 injured animals? Well, absolutely. 17 DR. S: Yeah. 18 MR. PEREA: 19 DR. S: It's a cool house. MR. 20 PEREA: Yeah. It is. Huh? 21 22 23 24 25 80 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645 1 2 3 I, Chris Naaden, a transcriber, hereby declare under 4 penalty of perjury that to the best of my ability the 5 above 80 pages contain a full, true and correct 6 transcription of the tape-recording that I received 7 regarding the event listed on the caption on page 1. 8 9 10 I further declare that I have no interest in the event of the action. 11 12 February 6, 2018 13 Chris Naaden 14 15 16 X_____________________ 17 18 19 (Hi-Caliber Horse Rescue interview, 1-3-18) 20 21 22 23 24 25 81 NOBLE TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES - 714.335.1645