REPORT OF THE MISSOURI HOUSE
SPECIAL INVESTIGATIVE COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT

April 11, 2018

?ag 3w

Jay Barnes



Vice? hairman Don Bhillips

 

 

. Ranking Mem er Gina Mitten

 

 

Rep. in Austin

 

 

 

Rep. Tommie PierSon Jr.

SENSITIVE CONTENT WARNING

This report contains content ofa sensitive and sexual nature. The House Special Investigative Committee
on Oversight has kept descriptions of an adult nature and coarse language in order to provide an unfiltered
record of witness testimony. In some cases, the identities of witnesses and sensitive information have
been redacted from the record to protect privacy.

HISTORY OF THE COMMITTEE
The House Special Investigative Committee on Oversight (the Committee) was formed
by Speaker Todd Richardson on February 27, 2018, and consists of seven members: Chairman
Jay Barnes, Vice-chairman Don Phillips, Ranking Member Gina Mitten, Rep. Jeanie Lauer, Rep.
Kevin Austin, Rep. Shawn Rhoads, and Rep. Tommie Pierson Jr.
House Resolution 5565, adopted by a unanimous vote of the House of Representatives on
March 1, 2018, established procedures for the Committee. In particular, HR 5565 empowered
and required the Committee to “investigate allegations against Governor Eric R. Greitens” and
“report back to the House of Representatives within forty days of such committee being
appointed[.]” It further permitted the Committee to close all or a portion of hearings to hear
testimony or review evidence, and to redact testimony transcripts and other evidence to protect
witness identities or privacy.
Subpoenas were issued to compel the appearance of witnesses and the production of
documents. Every witness before the Committee testified under oath.

1

•

On February 22, 2018, Speaker Todd Richardson indicated he would form a committee to
investigate allegations against Governor Greitens (Greitens). In response, counsel for
Greitens stated that they would “welcome reviewing this issue with the independent,
bipartisan committee of the Missouri House of Representatives.” Counsel promised to
“work with the committee,” after faulting the Circuit Attorney for the City of St. Louis
for refusing to meet with Greitens. 1

•

On February 27, 2018, the Committee was formed by Speaker Todd Richardson.

•

On February 28, 2018, Chairman Barnes made contact with attorneys Ed Dowd, Counsel
for Greitens; Scott Simpson, counsel for Witness 1; and Al Watkins, counsel for Witness
3. Requests were made for production of documents.

•

Counsel for Witnesses 1 and 3 timely responded to the Committee’s request for
documents. Counsel for Greitens declined to provide any documents, stating that they
were under a non-disclosure order from the Circuit Court of the City of St. Louis in an
existing criminal case not to disclose documents from that case. However, the Committee
notes that only one of the requests for documents to Greitens involved documents from
the current pending case.

•

On March 7, 2018, pursuant to subpoena, the Committee took testimony from Witness 1.

•

On March 9, 2018, pursuant to subpoena, the Committee took testimony from Witness 2,
who identified herself as a close friend of Witness 1, and Witness 3, the ex-husband of
Witness 1.

See Ex. 23, Correspondence with Greitens’ Counsel.

Page 1 of 24

 •

On March 12, 2018, pursuant to subpoena, the Committee took testimony from Witness
4, a close friend of Witness 1.

•

On March 22, 2018, Chairman Barnes sent requests for sworn answers to interrogatories
to counsel for Greitens, and requested that counsel be prepared at a meeting the next
morning to provide available dates and times at which Greitens could testify before the
Committee.

•

On March 23, 2018, Chairman Barnes, Vice-chairman Phillips, and staff attorneys Alex
Curchin and Alixandra Hallen met informally with Ed Dowd, counsel for Greitens and
Ross Garber, counsel for the Office of the Governor of Missouri. Chairman Barnes
informed counsel that, although Greitens did not have a constitutional right to testify
before the Committee at this point, the Committee was treating the process as if he did.
Chairman Barnes requested that counsel inform the Committee by Monday, March 26,
2018 whether Greitens intended to exercise or waive his right to testify before the
Committee at this point in time.

•

On March 26, 2018, counsel for Greitens informed the Committee that Greitens would
decline to testify before the Committee at this point in time. The Committee notes that
Greitens has the constitutional right to so decline, and that the Committee has treated this
process as if he also has the right to testify at this point in time.

•

On April 3, 2018, the Committee met to discuss the process for redactions of the record
and drafting of this report.

•

On April 5, 2018, the Committee met to vote on redactions of the record and discuss a
draft of this report.
LIMITATIONS OF THE COMMITTEE

The Committee operated under significant time and resource constraints pursuant to the
resolution. The Committee also notes that Greitens has declined to participate in this fact-finding
process at this time. Greitens declined to provide the requested testimony, documents, and sworn
answers to interrogatories. Greitens enjoys a fifth amendment constitutional right not to testify in
his criminal trial – and before this Committee. Yet, it is also true that he enjoys a constitutional
right to testify in his criminal trial if he so chooses. Further, this Committee treated the process to
date as if Greitens also had a right to testify before it.
Greitens has effectively waived the right to testify before this Committee at this point in
time. Thus, to the extent this report does not include Greitens’ perspective, that is the result of his
choice not to participate. While disappointing to the Committee, his failure to participate is not
held by the Committee as an indication of the truthfulness of the allegations. Finally, the
Committee also notes that Greitens will be afforded further opportunities to present evidence
should additional proceedings of the Committee be deemed necessary.
Page 2 of 24

 Finally, this Committee was not tasked with recommending specific actions for the
House of Representatives or Senate to take following this report. Instead, the Committee’s
purpose, per HR 5565, is to determine, to the best extent possible, the underlying evidence to
allegations made against Greitens. Accordingly, while individual members of the Committee
may have recommendations and beliefs about appropriate actions given these facts, those beliefs
are the Committee members’ as individual representatives, not of the committee as a whole. The
Committee also notes that the seriousness of this process is such that it would be inappropriate
for it to make recommendations after a series of closed hearings and before other elected
officials and the public have been made aware of the facts included in this report.
FINDINGS OF THE COMMITTEE
A. Conduct in Relation to Witness 1
Based on the testimony and evidence received by the Committee to date, the Committee
finds reason to believe the following:

years.

1.

The Committee finds Witness 1 to be an overall credible witness.

2.

Witness 2, a confidant of Witness 1, testified she has known Witness 1 for ten

2

3.
Witness 3 authenticated a surreptitious recording of a conversation with Witness 1
that took place on March 25, 2015, approximately four days after Witness 1’s sexual encounter
with Greitens.
4.
Witness 4, a confidant of Witness 1, testified that she has known Witness 1 for
thirty years, dating back to elementary school. 3
5.
Greitens declined the opportunity to testify and failed to respond to the
Committee’s request for production of documents and sworn answers to written interrogatories. 4
The Committee notes that Greitens has the constitutional right to so decline, and that the
Committee has treated this process as if he also has the right to testify at this point in time.
6.
Witness 1, a hair stylist, met Greitens in 2013, when he became her client. 5
Witness 1 testified:
He became a regular client of mine. And – I don’t know. I saw him pretty
regularly, unless he was traveling. Seemed pretty typical…we got to know each
other pretty well, and I thought he was great. I thought he was this perfect guy. I
probably knew too much about what he had maybe done in the past, as far as – I
2

Tr. W2 at 7:2-11.
Tr. W4 at 7:19 to 8:15.
4
See Ex. 23, Correspondence with Greitens’ Counsel.
5
Tr. W1 at 5:21 to 7:1.
3

Page 3 of 24

 knew – I knew that he was an author, I knew he was a motivational speaker, I
knew he was a Navy SEAL. I knew he had volunteered at the Mother Theresa
House…I don’t want to say that he was speaking highly of himself, but he found a
way to tell me these things, and so I just thought he was wonderful. 6
7.
From the fall of 2014 to March 2015, Greitens did not make any appointments
with Witness 1. Then, on or about March 7, 2015, Greitens returned for a haircut: 7
[W]hen I saw Eric was coming in that time, I was super nervous because he was
one of – you know, really, my only client that I had somewhat of a crush on and
thought he was this great guy, and so I just felt kind of nervous having him come
in, and because I thought that maybe he didn’t come in to see me after that time
because he felt bad flirting with me, because he was having a baby soon. 8
8.
Witness 1 testified that, during the March 7 appointment, Greitens moved his
hand up her leg and “all the way up to [her] crotch” without her consent. 9
9.
On or about March 7, Greitens attempted to call Witness 1 on her cell phone, but
she did not answer. 10 Witness 1 explained her feelings:
I was at least curious. Did he have the same feelings for me? Was he going
through something similar with his wife? Why did he feel like he could do that?
Because he didn’t know I was separated. So, anyway – so I was at least curious. I
didn’t want to talk to him, but I did want him to call me. 11
10.
On or about March 14, Witness 1 called Greitens while she was out with friends
in the Central West End area of St. Louis. Witness 1 testified:
[W]e were trying to have a conversation in code of sorts, like, I’m really – my
friend is really curious – she’s in a situation. She was really curious what
happened and why…you know, it was kind of in code. The way he was talking, I
could tell he was most likely at his house because he wasn’t really talking.
And – so he said, Actually – hey can you meet me outside of Starbucks in an alley
– oh, because he asked me where I was, and I said – I was in the Central West
End with some of my friends… 12
11.
They met for a few minutes in an alleyway behind Starbucks. There was no
sexual contact during this meeting. Witness 1 testified:
6

Tr. W1 at 6:8-24.
Tr. W1 at 7:2 to 9:19.
8
Tr. W1 at 9:11-18.
9
Tr. W1 at 11:6-11.
10
Tr. W1 at 13:22-25.
11
Tr. W1 at 13:9-15.
12
Tr. W1 at 14:6-17.
7

Page 4 of 24

 [H]e asked where I was, and I said I was at a restaurant in the Central West End –
a Mexican restaurant there. And he said, Well, can you meet me in a few minutes
in the alleyway behind Starbucks, because I think I have a solution to your
friend’s problem. So I said, Okay. And I went over to kind of where he was
talking about behind the Starbucks, and I was, like, shaking, because I was
nervous to even be talking to him like this. And he kind of hugged me and just
said, Listen, calm down, it’s not – it’ll be okay. I have an idea of, you know, of a
time when we can talk about this openly. Next weekend, my wife is going out of
town, you can come over to my house, we can discuss these things, because … I
have to get back to my house in a minute. 13
12.
On Friday, March 20, Witness 1 called Greitens from her salon and told him, “I
don’t feel comfortable coming to your house, can you please meet me at Starbucks or Coffee
Cartel?” Greitens responded that he could not be seen in public with her because he was running
for office and people would be watching him, especially in the Central West End. Instead, he
insisted they meet at his house where she could “come in through the back door, nobody will see
you, we can talk, you can get back to work, it’ll be fine.” 14
13.
Witness 1 arrived at the backdoor to Greitens’ home at approximately 7 a.m. on
Saturday, March 21. 15
14.

Witness 1 had to be at work by approximately 7:45 a.m. that morning. 16

15.
Upon entering the home, Greitens made a “shush motion” to Witness 1, took her
purse and keys, removed all items from her purse and searched it, patted her down from head-totoe, and then went back outside to check if anyone had seen her enter the home. 17
16.
Witness 1 testified that she was nervous, and Greitens attempted to calm her
down. Greitens asked if she could come back later after she finished working. Witness 1
informed him that she would be finished at 4:00 p.m., but that she had to pick her children up at
that time so she could not return that afternoon. Witness 1 then testified to the following:
[H]e said, Well, okay, I have this idea. And I thought about you so much, and I
have this idea, and it’s to make you feel good. I feel like you haven’t been treated
good in so long. And I said, Well, I want to talk to you. I want to know what is
going on in your relationship. You don’t even know what’s going on in mine. And
he said, I know…but we don’t have a whole lot of time. Have you exercised
today?

13

Tr. W1 at 15:11 to 16:1.
Tr. W1 at 17:12 to 18:1.
15
Tr. W1 at 18:11-15.
16
Tr. W1 at 18:16-18.
17
Tr. W1 at 18:25 to 19:22.
14

Page 5 of 24

 It was like he was on a mission, sort of, like this kind of high energy – it was kind
of high energy. And I said, No I haven’t exercised. And he said, Will you let me
take you through an exercise – like, through a workout? I just have this idea. It’s
going to make you feel so good and – for whatever reason, I trusted him, thought
this is okay, this is – somehow we’re going to get to this – I don’t know – I’m
going to leave here feeling more clarified that, obviously, he has feeling for me. 18
17.

Witness 1 explained that Greitens had prepared clothes for her to change into:
So he said, I have these clothes I want you to put on. He had clothes sitting on his
countertop. I want you to go change into these – take off all of your stuff – take
off everything you’re wearing and put on these clothes. And I just kind of looked
at him like, Oh, God, what do you have? And he said, Just trust me. … I just want
to make you feel good.
So I went – he has, like, a little bathroom off his kitchen, and I went in there,
changed into these clothes. The shirt was his – like, a man’s white T-shirt that he
had cut a slit at the top, and the pants were men’s pajama pants. 19

18.
When Witness 1 emerged from the bathroom wearing the clothes Greitens had set
out for her, Witness 1 testified that Greitens told her he would show her “how to do a proper
pull-up.” Witness 1 testified that she believed “this is going to be some sort of sexy workout.” 20
She explained, “I thought this was going to be some sort of, like, sexy workout. I knew he – he
had asked if I worked out that morning. I knew he – he said he had this idea that – something that
would be – make me feel really good and I did work out, because he wanted to take me through a
workout. And at this point I thought – we hadn’t worked out together ever, so I thought, Oh,
maybe it’ll be some sort of – I don’t know – sexy workout.” 21
19.

Witness 1 testified that she “was shocked” and “confused” at that point in time:
I still really thought he was perfect. He definitely knew – I know I had made it
clear I had not cheated on my husband before and that, you know, I didn’t want to
do anything physical with him. So I think I was just confused, kind of shocked.
And I was curious enough – he likes me this much that he has something planned
for our workout? I don’t know. I – I guess more than anything, confused.” 22

20.
At that point, Witness 1 testified that she would not have been “okay with a
normal sexual encounter with him if he said, Hey I just want to have sex in the basement.” 23

18

Tr. W1 at 19:27 to 20:25.
Tr. W1 at 21:1-13; 86:8-17, answering in the affirmative to question posed by Rep. Lauer whether Greitens
appeared to have “planned to have those available.”
20
Tr. W1 at 21:14 to 22:1. This testimony is consistent with statements Witness 1 made to Witness 3 in the
surreptitiously recorded phone call of March 24, 2015. See Ex. 1 at 16:24 to 17:5.
21
Tr. W1 at 111:11-19.
22
Tr. W1 at 86:22 to 87:5.
23
Tr. W1 at 111:20-23, responding in the negative to a question posed by Rep. Rhoads.
19

Page 6 of 24

 21.
testified:

When asked if she thought she was being led into a “a situation,” Witness 1

I did. But at this point, not a bad situation...More that he had a plan and – like I
said, I think I really thought maybe he will, you know, have some sort of sexy
workout planned, which is why – because he said, Change your clothes into these,
and I said, What do you mean? And he said, I just want to take you through a
workout, come on. Just trust me. I want to make you feel good. And I just feel
like you haven’t been treated good in so long. So at this point, it was more
curiosity / confusion. 24
22.
Upon entering the basement, Witness 1 testified that Greitens taped her hands to
pull-up rings with “this gauzed tape stuff” and then put a blindfold on her. Witness 1 testified
that these items were laying on a “workout bench right there, and that’s where he had that
stuff.” 25
23.
Witness 1 testified to Greitens’ demeanor at the time, stating, “[H]e kind of had
this controlling sort of – again, it almost as if he had a – like we were on a movie set. So he’s got
this whole thing down of what he was going to say or whatever, but he was super – he was in a
controlled state, which at this point was intriguing to me.” 26
24.

Witness 1 testified that Greitens then spit water into her mouth:
And then he said, First, before we start a workout, you have to be hydrated and
puts water in his mouth and tries to spit it in my mouth, at which point I realized
he’s trying to kiss me, but I don’t even want to kiss him. …
So I just spit it out. He does it and he’s like, You’re not going to be a bad girl, are
you? Tries to do it again, to which I just let it dribble out, because I didn’t even
want to kiss him. 27

25.
Witness 1 testified that she had not spoken to that point, and that Greitens then,
“[S]tarts kissing down my neck and he starts kissing kind of like down to my chest. And he takes
the shirt and rips it open.” 28
26.
Witness 1 testified that she did not consent to Greitens’ tearing of the shirt,
exposing her. 29
27.
Witness 1 testified that Greitens then commented on a scar on Witness 1’s
stomach, before “kissing down [her] stomach” and “pull[ing] down [her] pants.” 30
24

Tr. W1 at 87:6-20.
Tr. W1 at 22:2-5; 99:18 to 100:6; 102:13-23; Ex. 1 at 17:3-5.
26
Tr. W1 at 22:5-10.
27
Tr. W1 at 22:14 to 23:9. See Ex. 1 at 17:7-11.
28
Tr. W1 at 22:22 to 23:12. See Ex. 1 at 17:13-19.
29
Tr. W1 at 70:7-24, responding in the negative to question posed by Rep. Mitten.
30
Tr. W1 at 23:12-19.
25

Page 7 of 24

 28.
ankles. 31

Witness 1 testified she did not consent to Greitens pulling her pants down to her

29.
After Greitens pulled down her pants, Witness 1 testified, “[T]hen I hear him kind
of, like, step back – take a step back and I hear – I can hear like a, like a cell phone – like a
picture, and I can see a flash through the blindfold.” 32
30.

Witness 1 testified that she felt like her “privacy was invaded.” 33

31.
Witness 1 testified that she never saw an actual picture. 34 Nor did she recall “the
first time she saw his phone.” 35
32.
On April 9, 2018, the Committee was made aware of a motion filed in the
criminal case by Greitens’ counsel that asserted Witness 1 testified as follows:
Q: Did you ever see him in possession of a camera or phone?
A: Not to my knowledge. I didn’t see him with it.
Q: And as you sit here now, you cannot state under oath that you ever saw him in
possession of a camera – with a camera or a phone?
A: Correct.
Q: And you can’t say you saw it on his person, you can’t say you saw him put it
down in the kitchen, take it from the kitchen, or put it down anywhere in the
basement. Those are all correct statements, are they not?
A: Yes, I cannot say.
The motion notes that, when asked by the Assistant Circuit Attorney, “did you see what you
believed to be a phone?” Witness 1 answered, “… I haven’t talked about it because I don’t know
if it’s because I’m remembering it through a dream or I – I’m not sure, but yes, I feel like I saw it
after that happened, but I haven’t spoken about it because of that.” 36
31

Tr. W1 at 72:12-14, responding in the negative to question posed by Rep. Mitten.
Tr. W1 at 23:19-23; 62:3-24, testifying that Greitens admitted to her that he took the picture and that she “could
hear it and [she] could see the flash;” Tr. W1 at 78:13-25, testifying again to hearing a click, seeing a flash, and that
Greitens “acknowledge[d] it after he took it and sa[id], I’m going to put this picture everywhere. And then whenever
[she] came back, telling [her] that he had erased it;” Ex. 1 at 17:24 to 18:2, stating four days later, “[H]e stepped
back, and I saw a flash through the blindfold, and he said, ‘You’re never going to mention my name, otherwise there
will be pictures of [you] everywhere.”
33
Tr. W1 at 65:17-24, responding in the affirmative to question posed by Rep. Phillips. The Committee notes that
this question was related to a general feeling of invasion of privacy and not necessarily to the elements required for a
conviction under §565.252, RSMo.
34
Tr. W1 at 103:15-17.
35
Tr. W1 at 99:6-12.
36
The Committee notes that it includes these quotes in the absence of a full transcript from the deposition. It does so
in reliance upon Greitens’ counsels’ obligation of candor as officers of the court. The Committee also notes that, on
March 23, 2018, Chairman Barnes informed Greitens’ counsel that the Committee would support a motion by either
party to the criminal case to make an exception to the current non-disclosure order in that case. “However, in the
32

Page 8 of 24

 33.
When asked whether she had reason to believe a photograph of her was
transmitted in a way that allowed access via a computer, Witness 1 stated she knew “he had an
iPhone … And if he had iCloud, yes.” 37
34.
The committee does not possess any physical or electronic evidence of a
photograph or its transmission. 38
35.
Witness 1 testified that Greitens then said, “You’re not going to mention my
name. Don’t even mention my name to anybody at all, because if you do, I’m going to take these
pictures, and I’m going to put them everywhere I can. They are going to be everywhere, and then
everyone will know what a little whore you are.” 39
36.

Witness 1 explained her reaction:
I just stood there, because I was like What the fuck? He doesn’t have feelings for
me, he just wants to fuck me. So anyways, I was completely silent. I didn’t say
anything, especially – so I didn’t even – my husband traveled for a living, and I
didn’t even let him get pictures of me. So I just stood there quietly, and then he
came up close to me and he said, Are you going to say anything? Are you going
to mention my name? Of course, in my head, I was screaming, Fuck, all I want to
do is tell people right now. I’m dying. This is the most embarrassing thing that’s
ever happened to me. So I just didn’t answer at all, and then he spanked me and
said, Are you going to mention my name? And I said – I just gritted through my
teeth and I said, No. And he’s like Good – now that’s a good girl and was, like,
back in his – whatever – you know, the thing that he had in his mind, the thing
that he was going to do with me. 40

37.
Witness 1 testified that Greitens began kissing down her stomach again, and “as
soon as he got, like, low on me, I just started freaking out and I started ripping down my hands. I
was like, Get me out of here. I’m not ready for this. I don’t want this. I don’t want this.” 41
38.

Witness 1 described her emotions at that point:

event any such evidence is provided, we would insist on having the complete set of evidence. In other words, we
will not accept cherry-picked evidence from either the Circuit Attorney’s office or your client.” Greitens’ counsel’s
motion may be found in Exhibit 23. Counsel for Witness 1 responded with a statement and an email asserting that
said motion “mischaracterizes” her deposition testimony. Counsel for Witness 1’s statement and email is labeled
Exhibit 24.
37
Tr. W1 at 103:18-25.
38
The Committee’s requests for documents and sworn answers to interrogatories directed to Greitens sought
photographs and information identifying all computing devices and electronic communications accounts under
Greitens’ custody or control during the relevant period. Greitens declined to respond.
39
Tr. W1 at 23:24 to 24:5.
40
Tr. W1 at 24:6-25; 101:20-25; Ex. 1 at 18:4-8.
41
Tr. W1 at 24:25 to 25:5; Ex. 1 at 18:12-16.

Page 9 of 24

 I was definitely fearful. I was so embarrassed and ashamed, because I really felt
like a whore because I had let him get me in this position before we’ve even
kissed. I felt really used. I felt like what the – who are you? I think it was the
thing that just kept playing through my mind is, who are you? What is this? What
is this? Oh, my God, where am I? Get me out of here – because I just kept saying,
Get me out of here. I’m not ready for this. It was also, too, that feeling of, I came
here not wanting to do anything – nothing. 42
39.
Witness 1 testified that after she stated, “I don’t want this,” Greitens “stood up
and started helping me take down this tape. He was like…calm down, it’s okay. It’s okay.” 43
40.
Witness 1 testified that she responded by stating, “No I’m leaving, I’m leaving.”
However, as soon as she “start[ed] walking out – or going to go up the stairs, … he grabs me and
like – like, in a bear hug, and was like, Shh, shh, it’s okay, calm down, calm down, and like, lays
me down on this ground in the basement. … Not, like, hard, like – I mean, I was like a puddle of
– no. I just, like, was crying.” 44
41.

Witness 1 then testified:
So he was laying there and I was laying next to him just crying – like
uncontrollably crying. And he was like, Shh, shh, it’s okay, it’s okay. That’s all he
was really saying at this point. And he was trying to, like fondle my body. …
I’m bawling my eyes out. Yeah, so I’m still crying. And then he’s like – I can tell
he’s still, like, in it – he’s still in this – in this thing that he’s got in his mind of
whatever he’s doing, and he’s still like messing with me.
He starts undoing his pants, and he takes his penis out and puts it, like, near where
my face is. And I’m like – so this guy literally just wants me for this, and this is
all he wants, and then he’ll let me – because at this point, too, I also know I have
to be at work, and he’s not going to let me leave, because he’s obviously still
horny. So I gave him oral sex at this point. 45

42.
Witness 1 further testified that Greitens pulled his pants down and “pulled his
penis out…max, six inches or something” from her face while she was still crying and felt that
she had no other choice if she were going to get out of the basement. 46
43.
As to whether she consented to oral sex at that point, Witness 1 testified, “It’s a
hard question because I did it – it felt like consent, but, no, I didn’t want to do it.” 47 She further
explained, “Coerced, maybe. I felt as though that would allow me to leave. That’s what he
42

Tr. W1 at 130:7-18.
Tr. W1 at 25:5-7; 74:8-17; Ex. 1 at 18:17-21.
44
Tr. W1 at 25:8-16.
45
Tr. W1 at 25:18 to 26:12.
46
Tr. W1 at 132:6-25
47
Tr. W1 at 73:22-24.
43

Page 10 of 24

 wanted – I felt that’s what he wanted….” 48 Witness 1 then agreed with the statement that she
“didn’t feel necessarily able to leave without performing oral sex.” 49 She further testified,
“Looking back, yes” she believed that saying no when she was bound and blind-folded extended
to not consenting to further contact, but, “In the moment, I was so emotional” and that one of the
emotions was “definitely” fear for her “physical self.” 50
44.
Later, Witness 1 presented conflicting testimony as to whether she was physically
afraid at that particular moment. When directly asked, “Did you feel afraid to leave?,” she
answered, “No. Not at this point. I feel like he hadn’t gotten what he wanted,” but also affirming
she was crying, under duress, felt as if she had no other choice if she was going to get out of the
basement at that moment, and that it was only after feeling she had no other choice that she
performed oral sex. 51
45.
Witness 1 testified that after performing oral sex, “He did exactly what I thought
he would do. He was just like, Okay. I literally got up – he didn’t stop me from leaving. I walked
upstairs, went into the bathroom, got dressed, and left and went to work.” 52
46.
Witness 1 forgot her keys and had to return to Greitens’ house to retrieve them
after work. 53
47.
Witness 1 testified that Greitens was waiting for her when she returned at the end
of her workday at 4:00 p.m. She testified that she then confronted Greitens about the picture:
[H]e was already in the kitchen and opened the door and said, You forgot your
keys. I said, Yeah. And I was obviously pissed. And he said, You’re angry. And I
said, I’m really angry. I’m so angry. That is not at all what I wanted to do, Eric.
And he said, I know, I know, I just – I kept thinking about you. And I said, No,
you took a freaking picture of me. My husband doesn’t even have a picture of me.
You took a picture of me. And he said, I know…but you have to understand, I’m
running for office, and people will get me, and I have to have some sort of thing
to protect myself. And I thought about you, though, and I felt bad, so I erased it.
To which – you know, I didn’t believe him, but at least, he, like, acknowledged
that it was messed up and had a reason why[.] 54
48.

Witness 1 further testified that after she and Greitens talked for a while:
[H]e was back to kind of being that guy that I knew from the salon. It was
extremely charismatic, very – kept looking at me straight in my eyes and engaged
– like, I felt like he cared about me. He kept trying to hug me and touch me and

48

Tr. W1 74:2-4.
Tr. W1 at 74:5-7, responding in the affirmative to question posed by Rep. Mitten.
50
Tr. W1 at 74:18 to 75:1.
51
Tr. W1 at 132:17 to 133:4.
52
Tr. W1 at 26:13-17.
53
Tr. W1 at 26:18 to 28:1.
54
Tr. W1 at 28:5-21; 88:2-10, testifying, “And that’s when he explained…I have to protect myself, and you have to
understand this. You know, but I thought about you all day and I feel, you know – I erased the picture.”
49

Page 11 of 24

 kind of fondle me, meaning, like maybe hugging me and trying to put his hand up
my shirt. And at this point, it – I was really kind of mixed, because I hated him
from earlier, but I also loved the man that I knew before[.] 55
49.
Witness 1 further testified that she had never been photographed in a state of
partial or complete nudity either before or after March 21, 2015. 56
50.
Witness 2 testified that she spoke with Witness 1 within days of the encounter
between Witness 1 and Greitens on March 21, 2015. Witness 2’s testimony about the contents of
her conversation with Witness 1 is consistent with key portions of Witness 1’s testimony before
the Committee. Witness 2 testified that, in an emotional phone call, 57 Witness 1 told her:
a. “Greitens had suggested that she come over to his house, that she had said that she
really didn’t feel comfortable going there, that she would rather do something like
talk at a coffee shop. He said that he could not do that because he could not be seen in
public with her. And so – that he wanted her to come over to his house. And it was
within walking distance of…where she worked, and that she did – she did end up
going over there.” 58
b. “She had went into his house, that he was trying to make her feel comfortable because
she was nervous. He had given her some sort of loungewear – some sort of lounge
pant to put on and some sort of T-shirt – not what she wore over there, but clothes
that he had had, and that he invited her down to his basement to teach her how to do a
proper pull-up – she’s really into fitness.” 59
c. “She went downstairs. He had bound her hands to some sort of pull-up equipment
with some sort of tape that he had, put a blindfold over her eyes. He had ripped her
shirt and pulled down her pants some, because – she has a...a scar[.]...He had made
some comment about that.” 60
d. “She had seen a flash through the blindfold and that he had taken a picture.” 61
e. “[S]he did not consent” to the taking of the picture. “She said she was embarrassed
and shocked that he had said that she had better not mention his name because he
would then distribute the pictures.” 62
f. “[S]he was embarrassed and upset. She was married, so she was worried about the
stuff being out. She has a family that she’s close to, that she had gotten upset, and that
55

Tr. W1 at 29:10-19.
Tr. W1 at 104:21-24.
57
Tr. W2 at 29:23 to 30:2.
58
Tr. W2 at 9:8-16.
59
Tr. W2 at 9:21 to 10:3.
60
Tr. W2 at 10:4-11.
61
Tr. W2 at 10:11-13.
62
Tr. W2 at 10:14-21.
56

Page 12 of 24

 Greitens was trying to comfort her, telling her that it was going to be okay, and that
she did end up performing oral sex on him. … I think it was on a floor – a basement
floor. She was upset, and he was consoling her. That’s the only thing I can remember
from that, besides the actual fact.” 63
g. “[S]he had went back upstairs. She got back to the salon. She had forgotten her keys
there, so she had to go back to his house. She was upset, she was angry, she was
embarrassed, and that he said, Just don’t worry about it; I have deleted the picture.” 64
51.
Witness 4 testified that she spoke with Witness 1 soon after the encounter
between Witness 1 and Greitens on March 21, 2015. Witness 4’s testimony about the contents of
her conversation with Witness 1 are consistent with key portions of Witness 1’s testimony before
the Committee. Witness 4 testified that Witness 1 told her:
a. “She said that she went to his home and that when she entered his home he had
checked her for bugs as far as being bugged, wired I guess, and made her disrobe into
one of his dress shirts. And he checked her purse and her belongings for any devices,
recording devices.” 65
b. “[A]fter he had blindfolded her that she had saw a flash type and recognized that he
had taken a photograph of her, and he said that if you mention my name that I’ll put
this out there or put this on the Internet, something to that effect. And she got very
upset and wanted to get down, wanted him to get her down.” 66
c. “[W]hen he said that to her about the photograph or that incident that he sounded
different and that she was afraid at that point.” 67
d. “[H]e helped her down, and was trying to comfort her. She was very upset. Freaking
out was how she described it. And said that – he said that ‘I deleted it. I deleted it.” 68
e. “I don’t know when this incident occurred. I’m not sure if it was from the original
encounter or not, I don’t know, but there’s pieces of things that we’ve talked about
and she had described an encounter where she was really upset and that she had given
him oral sex and she said that she just did it so that she could leave.” 69
52.
On March 24 or 25, 2015, Witness 1 testified that she decided that she had to tell
Witness 3 about the encounter. The resulting conversation was recorded by Witness 3 without
her knowledge or consent, and portions of it have been broadcast on television. 70 Witness 3
63

Tr. W2 at 10:25 to 11:12.
Tr. W2 at 11:14-19.
65
Tr. W4 at 11:12-16.
66
Tr. W4 at 12:9-15; 32:7-20.
67
Tr. W4 at 22:19-21.
68
Tr. W4 at 12:18-21.
69
Tr. W4 at 16:4-10; 29:20 to 30:8.
70
The transcript of the surreptitiously recorded conversation is part of the Committee’s file labeled as Exhibit 1.
64

Page 13 of 24

 promised their conversation would not “leave the car.” 71 Witness 1’s statements in the
conversation are consistent with key portions of her testimony before the Committee. In that
conversation, Witness 1 told Witness 3:
a. “I met Eric a year ago and I instantly had a big crush on him. No, I never flirted with
him. Never confided in him except for I talked about…and he helped me with that
and just talked about life and whatever. He is very motivating. That’s his personality.
He’s very persuasive. He never flirted with me other than complimenting me a couple
of times on, ‘Oh, I really like your hair like that,’ or whatever.” 72
b. “[H]e quit coming in, and then I didn’t see him at all for five months. Like I wasn’t
lying about that. And then he came in, it was a Friday, and I was so nervous to even
have him come in because I knew that I had those feelings, those unexplained
feelings of I shouldn’t have a crush on anybody; I’m married; this is so stupid. So
then I had really bad anxiety.” 73
c. “He came in. Knowing that I felt better whenever he came in and I felt more calm and
that made me feel better, but while I was shampooing his hair and telling him about
my class – at first I thought it was just me, but then I realized it wasn’t. He was – I
was in the middle of talking and he was doing ‘this’ to my leg. And at first I ignored
it because I didn’t know if that was just me, and then I realized he was doing that and
I said, ‘Eric, you need” – well, I said, ‘You need to stop.’ And he looked at me and he
said, ‘What?’ And then I said, ‘You know what you’re doing. I know what you’re
doing. You need to stop.’ And he didn’t say anything. And then he came back and sat
down in the chair and I said – because there was silence. And I said, ‘Is that why you
didn’t come in here for five months?’ And he said, ‘Yes.’ Or, no, he said, ‘Maybe.’
Because I guess he was attracted to me.” 74
d. That she met Greitens on the weekend of March 14, but “nothing happened on the
14th,” but that she had met him outside and he told her that he wanted to see her the
next weekend. 75
e. “[O]n Friday, I called him from work and said, ‘I’m going home. … I cannot come
over. … I would like to discuss or to try to get all of these thoughts away from me.
Will you just meet me for coffee or something so that way we can just talk’. And he
said, ‘No, I can’t – I can’t be seen with you. This is wrong.’ And I said, ‘I know.’ So
he said, ‘Just please come to my house.’” 76
f. “So on Saturday morning before my first client, I did go to his house. … For the first
time. Ever. Like I said, nothing period, had ever happened or taken place until this
71

Ex. 1 at 10:13-14.
Ex. 1 at 8:7-17.
73
Ex. 1 at 8:25 to 9:7.
74
Ex. 1 at 9:8 to 10:1.
75
Ex. 1 at 13:11-14.
76
Ex. 1 at 14:10-22.
72

Page 14 of 24

 snowball. This fucking tornado just happened. I know I brought it on. I showed up
and I said, ‘I’m only here to talk.’ And he said, ‘I know.’ I said, ‘I just want to tell
you I feel like you’re always hope because I don’t know your relationship.’ He
doesn’t talk about his relationship, at all. He didn’t talk about himself at all, so I don’t
even know. But I said, ‘I just had a feeling that you wouldn’t be attracted to me if you
didn’t have a wife with a baby. I’m just trying to process why I’m feeling this way,
and I hate it. I really hate it.’ And then he – basically had been fantasizing about me,
tried to live out that fantasy. He just coaxed me, kept talking to me gently and
touching me, whatever he could do to still have that fantasy play out. And I did it.” 77
g. “I was so confused with emotion. I can’t even believe it because it’s not really in my
character. I don’t even fucking know. I’m so confused. He said, ‘I’ll make you feel
better. I’ll make you feel good. Come downstairs. I want to show you how to do a
proper pullup.’ And I knew that he was being sexual, and I still let him. And he used
some sort of tape, I don’t know what it was, and taped my hands to these rings and
then put a blindfold on me.” 78
h. “And said, ‘If you’re going to do proper pullups, you need to know how to drink,’
and I guess put water in his mouth and tried to pour it in mine and it scared me. And I
spit because I didn’t want to kiss him. I mean, I’m so …. I thought …. I thought.” 79
i. “He just kept touching me over my clothes and just kept touching me. And then undid
my clothes. I just didn’t say anything at all. I didn’t – I was just completely numb. I
didn’t even know. I was just numb. I just stood there and didn’t fucking know. I was
so – he was sort of messing with me with his hands.” 80
j. “[A]nd he stepped back, and I saw a flash through the blindfold, and he said, ‘You’re
never going to mention my name, otherwise there will be pictures of [you]
everywhere.’ … He said, ‘You’re not going to mention my name, are you?’ I didn’t
say anything. I didn’t realize what – I don’t know what the fuck I’m doing. And then
he asked me again. And I just said, ‘No.’” 81
k. “And then he tried kissing my stomach and tried to kiss me down there but didn’t
quite get there because I flipped out and I said, ‘You need to stop. I don’t want this. I
don’t want this. I don’t want this.’ And he instantly stood up and freaked out and took
off the blindfold and undid my hands and said, ‘I’m really sorry. Oh, my God…I’m
so sorry. I thought – I want to be – I want to make you feel better.” 82
l. “I left my fucking keys at his place and so I had to go back and get the fucking keys
after work. … And I showed up, said, ‘I’m so sorry for what happened earlier. I’m
77

Ex. 1 at 15:14 to 16:12.
Ex. 1 at 16:19 to 17:5.
79
Ex. 1 at 17:7-12.
80
Ex. 1 at 17:13-19.
81
Ex. 1 at 17:24 to 18:8.
82
Ex. 1 at 18:12-21.
78

Page 15 of 24

 just obsessed over you; it’s wrong and in real life, but I need to not do that. I know. I
love my wife, and I’m really sorry. And we should not ever talk again, and I hope that
you get everything figured out. … I said, ‘Well, I’m leaving.’ He said, ‘Just stay for a
little while longer, please.’ And I said, ‘No, I really have to go.’ ‘Please just stay.’
And then he held me for a long time and then made me feel better, just kept kind of
touching me. … I just – it was like, I don’t know 45 minutes of me being there, me
leaving, and then him going, ‘You know, are you sure you really want to go? I’m just
never going to see you after this and.’ … And that was it.” Witness 1 stated that she
never touched him, but, “He kept touching me,” that he turned her on, “and then
didn’t, did both,” she felt “every emotion.” 83
m. When Witness 3 said, “You’ve been half-raped and blackmailed,” Witness 1
responded simply, “Yes.” 84
n. When Witness 3 asked why she was “not going to tell anybody,” Witness 1
responded, “When I came back, I said to him, ‘I’m very, very pissed off at you. I’m
grossed out. I’m so pissed off.’ He said, ‘I know.’ ‘You took a picture.’ He said, ‘…,
it’s just because I fantasized about you, I fantasized about all these things, and you
could ruin my life. And – but I erased it.’” 85
53.
Greitens came in for an appointment with Witness 1 approximately a week and a
half or two weeks after her conversation with Witness 3. Witness 1 testified that Greitens first
question was, “You didn’t tell anybody, did you?” Witness 1 told Greitens that she had not, and
Greitens told her that he could not quit thinking about her and wanted to see her again. 86
54.
The next time Witness 1 met Greitens was for another appointment at the salon,
for which Greitens arrived 30 minutes early so that he was the first appointment of the day.
Witness 1 testified, “When he showed up, I consensually kissed him – so that would have been
like the first time that I was – that was totally my decision. He came in – at that time we stayed
clothed and everything, but essentially made out. And then he – my client – my coworkers
showed up, I did his hair and he left.” 87
55.
The next encounter between Witness 1 and Greitens occurred in May 2015.
Witness 1 was reading a book outside her salon when Greitens drove by, stopped his car, and
invited Witness 1 to his house that evening. Witness 1 agreed to meet him for “a little bit” and
went to Greitens’ house sometime around 6:30 p.m. She entered through the backdoor again, and
the two of them had consensual oral sex. 88
56.

The next encounter occurred on a Saturday in June 2015. Witness 1 testified:

83

Ex. 1 at 19:9 to 20:23.
Ex. 1 at 22:13-15.
85
Ex. 1 at 22:16 to 23:1.
86
Tr. W1 at 35:19 to 36:11.
87
Tr. W1 at 37:23 to 38:4; Tr. W2 at 13:18-22.
88
Tr. W1 at 38:10 to 39:10.
84

Page 16 of 24

 I went out with a few of my girlfriends after work and then went over to his house
afterwards. So this – my guess would have been 10:00 p.m., kind of later. And at
first was consensual, you know – he has a spare bedroom upstairs and took me up
there, and we were, like making out at this point. My guess is at least seminude at
this point. And he looks at me and asked me … have you been intimate with
anybody? And I said, What do you mean? And he said, Well, since you and I
started – because he knew that I had been separated from my husband. And I said,
Well, I slept with my husband – because I know at some point I had. And he
slapped me across my face, just like hard to where I was like, What? Eric, what in
the heck? You’re married. Why would – what do you mean? And he just said, No.
Like, that was – you’re mine. This is – what do you mean you slept with your
husband? You are not supposed to be sleeping with him, you know? And I said, I
think you’re screwed up from being in the Navy[.] 89
57.
Witness 1 testified that she did not believe the slap was intended to physically
hurt her. Instead, she said, “I felt like he was trying to claim me.” 90 The slap did not leave a mark
but “was just jarring. It wasn’t sweet and gentle; it was forceful.” 91
58.
Witness 1 testified that immediately afterwards, “[W]e laid there and talked about
him being in the Navy and what happened there. Because I know we talked about – there was a
bomb that went off – I don’t know. That was pretty much our conversation after that, because it
was just bizarre.” 92
59.
Witness 2 testified that she spoke with Witness 1 after the slapping incident, and
that Witness 1 had told her:
[H]e was communicating with her through a TracPhone, and that she had went
there. His wife was out of town, that she had – he had asked if she had any sort of
sexual relationship with anybody since they had been together last. She stated that
she had had sex with her husband – her husband at the time, and that that had
made him angry, and that he had slapped her in the face and called her a whore. 93
60.
Witness 1 testified that she spoke with Greitens a few times over the next week
via a burner phone that he had purchased, and then “saw him one more time, which was in the
morning before work.” Greitens asked if she wanted to come over to workout. Witness 1
testified:
[W]e did exercise and went through, like, a workout, and then at the end of it,
then it turned sexual in nature. And at first it was fine, and then we were in a
position that would have been as if we were having sex, like doggy style, but we
didn’t ever have intercourse throughout all of the times that I saw him. So he was
89

Tr. W1 at 39:17 to 40:13.
Tr. W1 at 76:2-7.
91
Tr. W1 at 119:12-16.
92
Tr. W1 at 40:16-21.
93
Tr. W2 at 13:4-12.
90

Page 17 of 24

 essentially, like fingering me and – but in that position, and out of nowhere, just,
like, kind of smacked me and grabbed me and shoved me down on the ground.
And I instantly just started bawling and was just like, What is wrong with you?
What is wrong with you? And I just laid there crying while he was just
like…you’re fine, you’re fine. You know, not really – I think he was just – I don’t
know. Maybe that’s normal, but, to me, it’s not. So, after that, I got ready and left
and went to work. 94
61.

Witness 1 testified that this incident “might have actually left a mark”:
[I]t actually hurt, and I know that I actually was really scared and sad when that
happened. The only reason why I say it might have actually left a mark is because
I can remember afterwards looking in a mirror – so it was only maybe a week and
a half, two weeks, tops, later that my husband and I were back together of sorts –
at least considering it. I remember looking in the mirror and thinking, Can he see
anything? So – I think that there’s probably a good chance that there was
something there. I didn’t take pictures of it. 95

62.
Witness 1 testified that Greitens was waiting for her when she left work that
afternoon. He told Witness 1 “there’s an issue” and she needed to follow him in her car.
Eventually, they pulled into a parking lot by a Kmart and Greitens asked her to get in his car. He
then told her, “Somebody has emailed my wife today. I think it’s this Democratic operative that
lives in my neighborhood.” Witness 1 suspected it was actually Witness 3, and her belief was
confirmed by later testimony and documents from Witness 3. 96 Witness 1 testified that Greitens
informed her that he planned to fly out to see his wife, convince her that Witness 1 was “running
in the neighborhood,” “came up to the door to get a book for [her] daughter,” and that Greitens
gave her a tour of the house and she “went out the back way.” Witness 1 then told Greitens that
they should not see each other again in any setting. She testified, “I said, No, do not come into
the salon. This is not fair to me, this is not fair to your wife, just leave me alone.” 97
63.
In October 2015, Greitens came into the salon again and the receptionist told him
Witness 1 had just had a cancelled appointment that Greitens could fill. Witness 1 then told
Greitens again that she did not want to see him anymore. Greitens informed Witness 1 that his
wife “doesn’t think anything.” After telling Witness 3 of the encounter that evening, Witness 1
then sent Greitens an email stating, “Please think of everyone involved and just leave me alone.
Don’t come in at all.” 98 Greitens never returned and Witness 1 never saw him again. 99
94

Tr. W1 at 42:1-21; 120:8 to 121:2.
Tr. W1 at 119:18 to 120:4.
96
See Ex. 2, email stating “There is another woman in your home right now. I’m assuming you’re out of town again.
If you want to know more contact me here. I’m sorry. This isn’t fake or spam. They are at the Maryland address.”
97
Tr. W1 at 42:20 to 44:2.
98
See Ex. 20, screenshot of email from October 20, 2015 from Witness 1 to Greitens stating, “Eric, I am asking you
to please consider all who are involved and the circumstances around us. I need you to not book at the salon
anymore. This isn’t fair to me, nor anyone close to us. Please respect me and my wishes. I need to move forward in
my life as I know you are doing as well. Take care.”
99
Tr. W1 at 44:24 to 46:4.
95

Page 18 of 24

 64.
When asked why she would continue to have contact with Greitens after the first
encounter, Witness 1 testified:
I’ve asked myself that so many times. I think it comes down to a few things. One,
I felt really disgusted with myself that I allowed that first time to happen. Really
embarrassed that he thought of me as a whore. And so after my – I told my
husband and he was clear that he did not want anything to do with me, that he
wanted to move into an apartment, and when Eric came back in and he was
normal and so kind to me, that felt so much better and it allowed me to just ignore
any of those bad feelings about myself, in particular. Because if I thought he was
this horrible person, I really felt shameful of myself.
And so, I think I just wanted to feel better about it. I didn’t want to think that he
thought of me as just a whore. I wanted to think that he actually really liked me
and wanted to have a relationship with me of sorts. 100
65.
Witness 1 testified that she thought it was her intent at the time to have a
relationship with Greitens:
I think at the time – I think – I don’t even know. I think just to feel better than
whatever I felt the day before. Because then I would have – we had chunks of
time where we didn’t see each other where I did feel more like myself, I started to
feel better. And then when I would see him, it was almost like this excitement
would build up, and then I would feel, you know, a ton of emotions again, and
then I would feel awful and disgusting and I hated myself and it was horrible. And
then I would start to feel better, and then he would come in again – you know, it
was just such an up and down. Because I didn’t want to be involved with
somebody who was married. I didn’t want to be having any feelings for him, in
particular because I was so embarrassed about the first encounter. He basically
made it clear that he felt that I was a thing to him. 101
66.
Witness 4 testified that she had a similar impression of Witness 1’s motivation to
continue to have contact with Greitens. She testified that Witness 1 “was very embarrassed by
what had happened. She had been called a whore by her husband and felt as though she was a
whore to Eric and was trying to find some thing that she felt that he cared about her for her to
feel okay with herself. She was very critical of herself.” 102
67.
Greitens declined to testify, stating through counsel that he would be willing to
testify at the conclusion of the criminal trial. Greitens also declined to provide documents, or
answer interrogatories under oath: 103
100

Tr. W1 at 88:23 to 89:15.
Tr. W1 at 89:18 to 90:10.
102
Tr. W4 at 28:1-6.
103
The Committee notes again that Greitens has the constitutional right to so decline, and that the Committee has
treated this process as if he also has the right to testify at this point in time.
101

Page 19 of 24

 a. On February 28, 2018, Chairman Barnes sent a request for production of
documents to counsel for Greitens that included four requests, including one
request for all documents produced in the criminal case against Greitens.
Subsequent to the request, an order was entered prohibiting disclosure of
information in that case. Accordingly, Greitens’ counsel was prohibited from
releasing the documents called for in one of the requests. However, the
Committee’s request was broader than the documents that had been disclosed
in the criminal case, and Greitens’ counsel did not provide those documents.
b. From February 28 to March 23, 2018, Chairman Barnes engaged in several
conversations with Greitens’ counsel in which he repeatedly informed
Greitens’ counsel that Greitens had the opportunity to testify before the
Committee.
c. On March 22, 2018, Chairman Barnes sent requests for sworn answers to
interrogatories to counsel for Greitens, each of which sought disclosure of the
various computing devices and electronic communications accounts under
Greitens’ control. Greitens failed to respond.
d. On March 23, 2018, Chairman Barnes sent correspondence to Greitens’
counsel requesting that they inform the Committee whether Greitens would
exercise or waive his opportunity to testify by Monday, March 26.
e. On Monday, March 26, Greitens’ counsel informed the Committee that he
would be waiving his right to testify.
68.
Though he waived his opportunity to testify before the committee, Greitens has
been asked several times in public settings whether he took a picture during the encounter at on
March 21, 2015.
69.
Press.

On or about January 20, 2018, Greitens was interviewed by the Associated

104

a. When asked, “Did you tie or bind the hands or blindfold your former
hairdresser?” Greitens answered:
[T]his was a consensual relationship. There was no blackmail. There was no
violence. There was no threat of violence. There was no threat of blackmail.
There was no threat of using a photograph for blackmail. All of those things are
false. The mistake that I made was that I was engaged in a consensual relationship
with a woman who is not my wife. And that is a mistake for which I am very
sorry, sorry to Sheena. I’m sorry to our boys. I’m sorry to our family, to our
friends and to everyone who has been affected by that. Beyond that this is—it's a
104

See AP Interview with Gov. Greitens at https://soundcloud.com/user-834153029/associated-press-interviewwith-missouri-gov-eric-greitens. See also, Tr. Greitens’s Public Statements at 3.

Page 20 of 24

 private matter and everyone involved has asked for privacy and I respect that and
I’d ask you to as well. 105
b. When asked the follow-up, “Did you actually take a photo of her?,” Greitens
responded:
As I said, this was a consensual relationship, David. And there was no blackmail.
There was no threat of using a photograph for blackmail. And there was no
violence. The mistake that I made, as I said, was that I was engaged in a
consensual relationship with a woman who wasn’t my wife. And beyond that,
everyone---Sheena, everyone has asked for privacy and again, we would ask you
to respect that. 106
70.

On January 22, 2018, Greitens held a press conference to discuss the state budget.
a. When asked, “[T]here’s one point we want to clarify. Did you take a picture
of the woman in question?,” Greitens responded:
…I’m happy to address this for everyone here once. And to make sure that we can
move on, and talk about the budget and other important priorities that are, before
us. As I said before, I made a personal mistake years ago before I was elected. A
personal mistake for which I take full responsibility. And it’s something that
Sheena and I dealt with years ago. We dealt with it by the book. We dealt with it
openly. And it was hard, but with loving family and a lot of prayer and
tremendous support, we’ve made it.
And I am grateful, grateful to Sheena, for her forgiveness and grateful to God, for
His forgiveness. I’m also grateful for people around the state of Missouri who, at
this time, come to us, with tremendous love and compassion and prayer, who have
helped us through a very difficult time. And we also appreciate those who
understand that this is a private issue that Sheena and I dealt with years ago that’s
now been dragged into the public. We look forward--I look forward to working
with legislators in this building, people around the State of Missouri in getting
their priorities passed and making a difference for them.
A lot of what’s been put out is not true. There was no blackmail. There was no
violence. There was no photograph for blackmail. There was no threat of using a
photograph for blackmail. There was no threat of violence. The mistake that I
made was that I was engaged in a consensual relationship and a mistake for which
I am deeply sorry. For Sheena and I, that is where the story begins and ends.
Everyone involved has asked for privacy. I’m going to respect that privacy and I
would ask you to respect that privacy. 107

105

Tr. Greitens’ Public Statements at 5:1-15.
Tr. Greitens’ Public Statements at 5:16-25.
107
See Greitens Budget Press Conference, Jan. 22, 2018, available at
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIcukJ1jcOI. ; See also, Tr. Greitens’ Public Statements at 29:23 to 31:12.
106

Page 21 of 24

 b. When asked the follow-up, “[T]he woman’s now ex-husband asked her if she
was quote “half-raped and blackmailed” and she said yes. How do you
account for the difference in those two accounts?” Greitens responded,
“Ma’am, ma’am, ma’am, I have addressed everything in the answer that I just
gave you and in the interviews that we did over the weekend. We are now—
there’s been a lot of people in the State of Missouri who are counting on
us.” 108
c. When asked another follow-up, “The question is: why did she say she was
blackmailed and you say she wasn’t?” Greitens responded, “I answered your
question, and we answered them in interviews throughout the weekend. Does
anyone have a question on the budget?”109
d. When asked, “Governor, yes or no, did you ever take her picture?” Greitens
responded, “Sir, again, I just answered. We answered them over the course of
the weekend, and we are moving forward.” 110
e. When pressed, “With all due respect, Governor, you haven’t answered the
photo questions.” Greitens responded, “Sir—sir, I’ve answered your question.
We answered them with multiple outlets this weekend, and we’re moving
forward.” 111
71.
On February 8, 2018 at a luncheon for the Missouri Press Association, Greitens
was asked again, “[D]id you take a photograph of the woman?” Greitens responded, “Actually
…we have answered all of those questions.” When pressed, “So what is the answer to that one?”
Greitens responded, “We’ve answered them in multiple interviews with multiple people. …we’re
ready to move forward, which we have, which we are, and we have.” 112
72.
In review of the evidence as a whole, this Committee does not view Witness 1’s
non-reporting of these events to law enforcement or others as bearing on her credibility.
73.
Witness 1 did not initiate sharing these details with the public, law enforcement,
this Committee, or anyone other than close friends. To the contrary, she testified that she would
rather not have to endure recounting the events of 2015:
I’m angry that I’m in the middle of this. I am – of course, I’m upset with myself
for any of my involvement with him. In particular, because he was married, but,
also, because he didn’t share the same type of feelings. And also because I was
still technically married.
108

Tr. Greitens’ Public Statements at 32:8-19
Tr. Greitens’ Public Statements at 33:2-6.
110
Tr. Greitens’ Public Statements at 45:5-9.
111
Tr. Greitens’ Public Statements at 46:14-18
112
See Mo. Press Association luncheon video, available at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHis4AU8IVY; See
also, Tr. Greitens’ Public Statements at 48:8-17.
109

Page 22 of 24

 But I’m also dealing with things for the first time these past two months that I
never did before. I just pushed them aside because it was too scary. I didn’t want
to think about it. I didn’t want to talk about it. I just wanted it to go away, and
then maybe it never happened like that. And knowing that I’m in the situation and
knowing that at this point, the only parts that Eric has denied are the parts that
were hurtful. The other parts weren’t traumatic to me at all. You know, it was – it
was consensual, and those parts were not traumatic. The parts that he denies are
the parts that I’m finally dealing with and going – I feel sad for that person I was.
That was so vulnerable. I was so vulnerable. I just feel really taken advantage of, I
think – and also by my ex-husband, hugely. 113
74.
Witness 1 testified that she could not read the transcript of the conversation her
husband had surreptitiously taped, “I started to read part of it, and I got to the part where he took
the picture, and I just couldn’t read it, so I have not read any of the rest of it.” 114
75.
Witness 2 described Witness 1 as suffering from anxiety and stress after the news
reports in January. “[S]he never wanted this to come out. She would have never brought this out.
She’s got minor children; she has her own business and – a lot of stress.” 115
76.
Witness 3 repeatedly threatened her with release of information about Witness 1
and Greitens. Witness 1 testified that Witness 3 told her, “Just wait, because your good
reputation…your outstanding reputation is going to be ruined and so is Eric Greitens’. You guys
are going to go down because I have proof of it.” 116 Witness 1 further testified that Witness 3
repeatedly said, "I'm going to ruin this guy, I'm going to ruin this guy.” 117
77.

Witness 3 released the recording to media outlets in December 2017. 118

78.
Witness 3 testified that an unidentified third-party had paid at least $15,000 “to
cover lawyer fees and all of the things that were about to happen to me financially because of the
fallout” relating to these events. 119
79.
The first time Witness 1 heard from a news organization occurred in December
2017 when a reporter named Lauren Trager “booked a fake appointment under a fake name, and
… came in and announced that she wasn’t there for a haircut, that she was just working on a

113

Tr. W1 at 90:20 to 91:16.
Tr. W1 at 108:2-5.
115
Tr. W2 at 19:16-19.
116
Tr. W1 at 49:14-20.
117
Tr. W1 at 47:3-4.
118
Tr. W3 at 73:22 to 74:12.
119
Tr. W3 at 53:24 to 54:9, Witness 3: “I spoke to the Post-Dispatch well before, and I have received nothing so far.
My lawyer has a trust account that someone put something in after speaking to the Post-Dispatch, to cover lawyer
fees and all of the things that were about to happen to me financially because of the fallout, but I had spent $15,000
or so dollars of my own prior to all of this[.] … And while I was talking to the Post, someone contacted my lawyer
and said he was going to help with legal fees.”
114

Page 23 of 24

 story about the governor.” 120 Witness 1 testified that she cried and asked Trager not to run a
story, saying, “No, you do not understand how traumatic this whole thing is. I cannot go there. I
have kids. My ex-husband is so, so vindictive, he wants to hurt me so bad. Please do not run this
story… please do not do this to me. I have children. I’m in school full-time. I work full-time –
my life is so busy.” 121
80.
The next time Witness 1 heard from Trager was the day before the story aired.
Trager told her that she was in possession of a recording. 122 Trager was soon informed by
Witness 1’s counsel at the time that Witness 1 “does not want any part of this. Please do not do
this.” 123 Trager called Witness 1’s lawyer three minutes before the story aired, stating that
Greitens had admitted to the affair and that they would air the story. 124
81.
Witness 1 testified that she learned the story was going to air moments before it
went live, explained to the Committee the circumstances of the airing of the report, and how she
was forced to inform her children about it. 125
82.

Witness 1 testified to concerns she presently has:
How will this affect my kids? Because it has already. What’s going to come of all
of this, you know? What will people think of me that don’t know me? I’ve had
huge support with family and friends and clients – and that’s the other thing too.
Beforehand, I thought what will happen to all of my clients? I have a huge client
base, and I love my clients, and a big part of why we love each other is because I
am – I’m a very open book, normally. This is the one thing I just kept in a pit in
my stomach and I never talk about this. And so far, that’s actually been a pretty
good – my clients have been pretty good to me, for sure.
So now I think my fear is if this comes – becomes public – I’m in school fulltime. So far I don’t think the students on campus know, but then how does that
affect my schooling? … Does that push me back?
Luckily, I’m not as fearful physically anymore, because I feel like anybody would
be crazy to hurt me because they would know who it is, so – that’s one huge
positive thing that’s happened. 126

120

Tr. W1 at 52:2-5.
Tr. W1 at 52:6-16.
122
Tr. W1 at 53:18-19.
123
Tr. W1 at 54:18-19.
124
Tr. W1 at 54:24-25.
125
Tr. W1 at 55:1-24.
126
Tr. W1 at 92:24 to 93:20.
121

Page 24 of 24

  

 

Exhibit No.

Exhibit No.

Exhibit No.

Exhibit No.

Exhibit No.

20

23

24

EXHIBITS

Transcription of Taped Recording of: Witness No. 3 and
Witness No. 1

Email Correspondence to Sheena Chestnut Greitens

Email Correspondence from Witness No. 1 to Eric
Greitens

Correspondence from counsel for Eric Greitens to
Speaker Todd Richardson, Speaker Pro Tem Elijah
Haahr, and Floor Leader Rob Vescovo; Correspondence
between counsel for Eric Greitens and Chairman Jay
Barnes

April 9, 2018, Correspondence to Chairman Jay Barnes
from Attorney Scott Simpson

 

 



0TRANSCRIPTION OP TAPSD RECORDING 

WITNESS NO. 3 AND HITNESS NO. 1

PREPARED FOR COURSBL

PROTECTED AND 

REPORTED BY: CARRXE A. CAMPBELL. RDR CRR CSR OCR

 

 


13?! 7M

 

 

no. i: i know you're not stupid.

"113289 No. 3: And stop -- and you need to
know l'n not atupid and that I deserve 100 percent of
the truth. and that means without having to ask. 1
know every single detail. Okay. No. stop. 1 need to
know every single detail without having to aak. and
that is the tirst step in feeling like you're finally
being honest with no about every single thing. That
is the tirst step to no building anything for us and
the working on -- and the working on things and
tiguring out what's next. this way or that way or the
other thing. Like it doesn't -- it doesn't it
doesn't change anything except for the pain 01 knowing
that you've been lying to me, knowing that I don't
know all the story. but knowing that you didn't want
to work on things allowed me to shut that out and say
i know -- know that i don't know the truth. And i
have gotten past that and surrendered to that.

extends N0. 1: So that's why l'm asking you
would it be easier --

No. 3: Hell -- no. listen. it would
be easier to know nothing.

no. 1: Okay.

"378388 80. 3: it you wanted a divorce and

it was completely over like you said. It you went a

 

 


(sauna-eons

anu0400"trutse NO. 3: This might be a long grocery
run.

RD. 1: So --

witness NO. 3: I need -- i need every
single bit of the truth. You owe no every single bit
ol the truth because this has been a torturous evening
and dayI'm not going
to ask questions because you're going to tell no
everything.

"lt?tss no. 1: Okay. My iirat question (or
you is knowing this and this alone. yes. I lied to
you. he. i didn't sleep with him. No, we're not
having an attair. and i'u not talking to him. But.
yes. i lied to you. Yes. l've had toelinga and --

viruses 80. 3: 1 have (inaudible) 

wxrutse no. 1: Right. But. no. i need to
know this iron you: Hould -- knowing how you feel
right now and how you have (air, would that make you
want to work on our relationship knowing that l've
lied to you?

?lf?lss NO. 3: I can't tell you what X'n
going to tool or any of that kind of stuif --

uxrnzea no. 1: But I want to --

witness no. 3: -- except that this is what

I know: 1 know that l'a not stupid.

 





 

 

gliopse oi hope at anything else. anything else. then
l'n going to stop talking and you?re not going to
finish until I know every single detail. Don?t make
me ask a question.

Did you conteea 

?xtures no. 1: he. that would be worse
(inaudible) in my whole entire lite. I'm never seeing
- again. Ever. I've never felt more linaudible).
never felt worse in my lite, ever.

thuzas NO. 3: Maybe you needed to because
he knows that you're lying about something.

WITNESS no. i: it was really. really awiul.
you know somebody in lying about something.
wouldn't you want to otter then a place to talk?

NITRIBS N0. 3: have ottered you a sale
place to talk.

HXTRISS no. 1: i know you have. and you're
the only person 1 tool sale with, but I don't want to
hurt you. ll we're not going to be together -- I'm
not having an allair. The man is married and he
has a baby.

no. 3: Yeah. I'm aware of
everything.

erutes so. 1: 1 know. I'm sure you dug

into everything you can dig into.

 





Exwwr 

 

 

"213288 RO. 3! No.

urtntat no. 1: No. you haven't? Look at me
and don't lie to me. First at all. don?t lie to no.

Did you loot at ray phone to get -'s
number. or did you look at my phone because you were
curious?

utt?t?s no. 3: I looked at my -- I looked
at your phone because I saw it on the thing.

WITNESS RD. l: okay. Thank you for telling

no that.

ur-mtaa no. 3: Nov, 1 did nee-'8
number.

alf?l?? NO. 1: No. No.

HITNISS no. 3: That was a true atory. That
is --

urrnree no. i: You're a lie with
a true story. you know what I mean.

viruses 3: No. No. That's what
you've done every single time.

"118388 1: Yes, that?s true.

wrruraa no. 3: That's what you've done
every single time.

no. 1: I will take 100 percent --

?xtures no. 3: New. I have never lied to

you and said. lied to you because." and given you a

 

 


Bul?00N?


 

 

make sense o! it as l'm apologising.

no. i: 1 an a coward.

wIt?tsa no. 3: Please begin and put it all
on the table. It's the only chance we have. lt'a the
only chance. No more half-truths. No more thingd to
make it make oenao. Just tree yourself.

N0. 1: l'n telling you (inaudible).

vrrutae no. 3: free yoursell. Free
yourself.

urrursa no. I: You have to promise no
(inaudible).

wrrutss no. 3: It von?t leave the car.
That's up to you.

no. 1: No. it really won't.

?373288 no. 3: It won't leave the car.
(Inaudlble).

wrrutoa no. 1: So the truth is. yes. I've
had horrible iaelings (or {our years. - three
years, whatever, conatantly suppressing. and I do feel
guilty about that. That's the tirst truth.

whether boobs. I
thought he was great: the guy in Vegas. he won great;
clients, whatever. and 1 know that it's no. So. no. I
have not acted on anything. I don't (lirt with

anybody. There's no acting. but by nine has been

 

 


uulnroun


~reason. And every single time you've --

urrntas 1: just did that.

urrnras no. 3: No. No. I didn?t. Every
single time I have lied to you and confessed. I have
said -- I have said, an so sorry,? and I have
never. never tried to defend it with a ?bet? or ?this
is a reason' or "this is why it made sense? or ?it's
your fault' or any 0! that. Every single time .-

wxrutas No. 1: But none or this in your
fault. It's not --

911N388 N0. 3: Step. Every time i have
lied to you and contessed. have said. ?There in no
excuse. I an sorry.? That's (inaudible) why don't
tell me something and then tell no why because I've
never laulted you for no wronging or lying to you --
lying to you.

So I knew something is up. I'm not a
tucking idiot.

Hlf?tss no. i: I know.

NO. 3: I deserve to know. I knew
that was being lied to. I knew that you were lying
to no and when you --

vrrutes no. 1: i couldn't go anywhere 

WITNISS NO. 3: Step. I understand. I

understand. But I'm not the coward that when I lie. 1

 


?Him


 

 

going crazy. and I know it's me. Because I -- I have
everything in you except for something. I don?t know.
And wheneVer that ahut oil. that's what I've been
dealing with. So I knew that it's not these people. I
know that. but in knowing that, I can't shot this oil
and my brain has been going insane.

so. yes. I not Eric a year ago and I
instantly had a big crush on him. It would help it it
would look at no.

I instantly had a big crush on him. no. I
never Illrted with him. Never eentlded in him except
to: I talked about ?and he helped no with that
and just talked about life and whatever. He is very
motivating. That's his personality. He's very
persuasive. He never Illrted vith me other than
complimenting no a couple or times on. 'Oh, I really
like your hair like that." or whatever.

Heanwhilo. I did develop a big crush. and I
Ielt insanely guilty about it. I couldn't stop my
brain. I don't know about you. but I can't control my
brain. as much as I would like to. It's the most
aspect o! no in that way. since I was a kid. I just
can't stop it. Hhatever I don't want it to think. it
does 

Anyways. he quit coming in. and then i

 





 

 





didn?t see him at all [or five months. Like I wasn't
lying about that. And then he came in. it was a
Friday. and I was so nervous to even have him cone in
because I knew that I had those toelings. those
unexplained feelings oi I shouldn't have a crush on
anybody: I'm married; this is so stupid. So then I
had really bad anxiety.

He came in. Knowing that I (sit better
whenever he came in and I felt more calm and that made
me tool better. but while I was shampeoing his hair
and telling him about my class -- at lirst I thought
it was just me. but then I realised it wasn?the middle of talking and he was doing
?this" to my leg. And at first I ignored it because I
didn?t know i! that was just me. and then I realised
he was doing that and I said. ?Eric. You need? --
well. I said: "You need to stop.?

And he looked at me and he said: ?What?"

had then I said: 'You know whet you're
doing. I know what you're doing. You need to stop.?

And he didn't say anything. And then he
came back and sat down in the chair and I said --
because there was silence. And I said: ?Is that why
you didn't come in (or live months??

And he said: "Yes." no. he said:

 

 



iv'i?ri?w??

ll

 

 

period.

So anyways. I torgot he had ny e-nail. he
sent no an e-aail. I think just to check to see it I
was okay. but it said nothing. There was nothing in
the e-mail.

But he asked me a question. whatever he
asked me. I answered back and said. 'Hhen you book
your next appointment. you need to make sure that you
ask (or me because they will tell you I'm booked until
April whatever." And he said -- and he said: ?That's
great. what's the best number I can reach you at?"

I did not. I promise you. - I swear. I
did not think that that meant to call no to tell this
bell. So I e-mailod him back and said: ?Call this
line. They will -- it you can't get an appointment.
they will take your number. and I will call you back.
It you can't reach me there. this is my cell phone
number.?

What I didn't know -- and I said -- and I
was trying to send a message through there. I said:
-- it was - birthday party night. I
said: -'s birthday is tonight. My husband and
my tamily will be over at my house." And that was
just trying to send a message of like. look. I get it

now. we know we both have this weird attraction. but I

 

 


moses





?Maybe.? Because I guess he was attracted to us.

And this happened to be after you and I had
just had that week or whatever. It happened to be
when I was really in escape mode. I guess I really
wanted an escape;

So whenever he was getting ready to leave.
he said: come here." I guess to like talk to
on about whatever just happened or whatever. and I
said: ?he. Let's go to the Iront.? And then he came
over and by me and I said: ?Eric. we're both
narried.?

He said: know. I know.?

- this can't leave the car.

?If?lsa no. 3: It won't.

"It?lss no. I: So then we walked to the
(rent. I said 'bye.?l That was it.

He came by later and dropped or! his book.
his new book. and just said ?enjoy." and that was it.
And then he sent as an o-nail and that is how he got
my phone number. that?s the truth. He sent me an
e-neil and just said: -- that he had my
o-nail (or exactly the reason why I told you he had my
nuober. but it was actually my o-nail from like a year
age. He was doing some sort 0! book thing and asked

(or my e-nail. and then he just never e-nailed me.

 

 

HMNFORDREBORHN08IBCHNOUXW
Bunnmub


12

 

 

know 100 percent his attraction is he has a wife with
a baby. he's exactly in the boat you were in. similar
beat. I'm sure. I'm sure his wile is -- whatever.

So he actually called on. I didn't know
that. Didn't talk to his. nothing. throughout the
whole week. nothing. The only reason why I know that
he had called as was because whenever he called me
Saturday night. I noticed that the number was a Dc
nuaber and got scared knowing that you would look and
realise that that same number had called me that
night.

So. anyways. I went throughout the whole
week and nothing. And I just kept trying to process
my thoughts. and I felt like I was going crazy and
that?s when I couldn?t sleep because I knew euerything
I was Ieeling was wrong. I don't know why I can't
control it. It's tucking horrible.

So on Saturday. I did the wrong thing. It
was me who e-mailed him and said: ?My triend is
having troubles with her thoughts. Can you please
call me about that" or something. So that's the
reason why he called me that night. And we talked
about my Iriond. and essentially I was just looking
(or ?you're so netivating on everything. please help

me just turn of! my thoughts because this is horrible.

 

 


'n'uwnawna


it's driving me insane.? 1
And he said: '1 might have a solution. but 2
1 will have to get back to you on it. And l'm sorry 3
that you tool that way. I know how that reels." and 4
just roundabout. There wasn?t any sort of deep 5
talking because we're talking about my lriend. 6
"113288 30. 3: This is the 11th? 1
"Ithaca no. 1: So then he said: '1 9
think -- have a solution. I can see you next 9
weekend.? so that was this past weekend. 10
no. 8: So nothing happened on the 11
14th? 12
"128888 NO. 1: No. nothing happened on the 13
14th. 1?
"113283 no. 3: But there were two phone 15
calls. 16
wrrurss no. 1: The second phone call was 17
him asking it 1 would come outside to meet him. 10
urrurss NO. 3: And? 19
WITNESS NO. 1: 1 came outside to meet him. 20
?lt?t?s N0. 3: You told me (inaudible). 21
viruses 1: I didn't but 1 didn't 22
touch him. Nothing. I just that was him saying: 23
'1 think 1 have a solution. 1 know that you're in a 24
bad spot. really sorry.? ?hatever. 1 know this 25

?~vds inra?a?m?
15
I knew I had so many wrong thoughts in my mind that 1 1
just couldn't figure out. 2
s: what did you do? 3
HITNIBS NO. 1: 1 don't think you really i
want to know. It's horrible. 5
no. 3: Just tell me. 6
Witness no. 1: 1 don't think you want to 7
know. 8
urrutas no. 3: Tall no the details and the 9
truth. lo
uxrutsa no. 1: (Inaudible). 11
urrutss no. 3: (Inaudiblel tell no the 12
truth. The truth. Only the truth. 13
"118288 no. 1: So on Saturday nothing ii
bolero my lirst client. I did go to his house. 15
no. 3: For the tirst time? 16
nrruran no. 1: For the first time. Ever. 11
Like 1 said. nothing. period. had ever happened or 1:
taken place until this snowball. This tucking tornado 19
just happened. 1 know 1 brought it on. 20
I showed up and 1 said: ?l'n only hero to 21
talk.? 22
And he said: '1 know.? 23
1 said: '1 just want to tell you 1 tool 24
like you're always hope because 1 don?t know your 25

 

 


Bunnwuu

14

 

whole thing is wrong. - so (inaudible) 1 don't
know what to do.

And then he said: ?Hell. 1 want you to come
over next weekend."

And 1 said: '1 can't. I can't do that.?

And he said: ?1 want you to come over.?

So then 1 said: ?No. 1 can't.?

And then he said: ?Hell. at least call no
if you can't.?

And on Friday 1 called him tron work and
said: 'l'n going to hone. It's?'a
birthday. 1 cannot come ouer.?

And he said: 'Hcll. 1 understand.?

And 1 said: '1 would like to discuss these thoughts away (too me. Will
you just meet no lo: ceiiec to: something so that way
we can just talk.?

And he said: 'No. 1 can?t -- 1 can't be
seen with you. This is wrong.?

And 1 said: '1 know.?

So he said: 'Just -- please just cone to my
house.?

no. 3: Keep going.

er?tss N0. 1: So that's the reason why 1

 

 

was so torn talking to - birthday night because


realm-coo:


16

 

relationship.? He doesn't talk about his
relationship. at all. he didn?t talk about hinsell at
all. so i don't even know.

But 1 said: '1 just had a that you
wouldn't be attracted to no it you didn't have a wile
with a baby. I'm just trying to process why l'm
feeling this way. and 1 hate it. I really hate it.?

And then he -- basically had been
iantasiring about we tried to live out that fantasy.
He just coaxed be. kept talking to no gently and
touching me. whatever he could do to still have that
fantasy play out. And 1 did it.

3: Did what?

wrrarss HO. 1: We're getting divorced.
-

no. 3: it's up to you right now.
Tell no the truth. sat yourseli tree. please. and
tell me the truth.

assures NO. 1: 1 was so contused with
emotion. ilnaudible) 1 can't even believe it because
it's not really in by character. I don't even tucking
know. l'u so contused.

"113283 no. 3: Tell no the details. please.

HITNIBB no. 1: He said: '1'11 make you

{eel better. 1'11 make you {eel good. Cone

 

 

 

HMU70RDREPOKHNGITECHROUXW
11mm



downstalrs. I want to show you how to do a proper
pullup.? And I knew that he was balng sexual. and I
let hln. And he used some sort of tape. I don't
know what lt was, and taped my hands to these 
and then put a on no.

"113288 no. 3: Keep golng.

wxrutss no. 1: And sald: ?If you're golng
to do proper pullups. you need to know how to 
and I guess put water In mouth and trled to pour
lt ln mlne and 1: scared me. And I because I
dldn't want to hln. I mean. I'm so --
(lnaudlble) I thought I thought llnaudlblel.

He just kept me over my clothes and
just kept me. And then undld my clothes. I
just dldn't say at all. I dldn't -- was
just completely numb. dldn't even know. I tool
like I don't even know. I was just numb. I just
stood there and dldn't know. I was so -- he
was sort 0! with no hands.

WITNESS NO. 3: InlldOT

urrutss no. la Inslde. yes.

80. 3: And?

vrrutss no. 1: I mean. that was Ilnaudlble)
and he stepped back. and I saw a flash through the

and he sald: 'You're never golng to

 

 


u1nu?a


19

 

 

doesn't reel I told you I was only here to

talk."

uxrusas RD. 3: "hat else?

no. I: And then I lelt.

urturss no. 3: Is that every detall? Don?t
llo.

?xtures no. l: No, lt's not every detall.

I lott. went to work lo a really tucked up state ol
nlnd. lelt horrible. (lnaudlble) 1elt my
keys at place and so I had to go back and
got the tucking keys alter work.

KO. 3: And?

"If?lds N0. l: And I showed up. sald: 'l'n
so sorry for what happened earller.?

?I'm just obsessed ever you. and Iantaslro
about you: It's wrong and lo real llte. but I need to
not do that. I know. I love my wllo. and really
sorry. And we should not ever talk agaln. and hope
that you got Ilgurod out.?

"113388 NO. 3: And?

WITNESS no. It I sold: ?well. l'm
loavlng.?

He sald: "Just stay for a whlle
longer. please.?

And I sald: "No. I really havo to 90.?

 

 


.


Odm

Isl

059mentlon my name. otherwlse there he plctures a!
me Islcl everywhere.?

no. 3: Keep golng.

urrutss no. l: He sold: "You're not golng
to mentlon my name, are you?" I dldn't say 
I dldn?t reallre what -- I don't know what the luck
l?n delne. And then he asked me aqaln. And I just
sold: 

no. 3: Old he (lnaudlblel.

uxrurss no. 1: Hell, my pants were down.

th?lss no. 3: Keep gelng. please.

ux'mtss no. 1: And then he trled my
stomach and trled to no down there but dldn't
qulte got there because I (llppod out and I sold:
?You need to step. I don't want thls. I don't want
thls. I don't want thls.?

And he instantly stood up and Ireaked out
and took all the and undld oy hands and
sold: ?I'm really sorry. Oh. my God. I'm so
sorry. I thought -- I want to he I want to make
you (eel better.?

And then I was llks: 'Thls doesn't oaks ne
Ieel good at all. I'm so ell. I don't know
about you. I?m so lost. I'm so vulnerable

now. lo a really lucked up place. It

 

 

quureanassoxnnoa1tcnnouxw
Bananas


20

 

 

"Please just stay.?

And then he held no (or a long tloe and then
made as tool better, just kept kled o! as


WITNESS 30. 3: And?

wrrutss no. 1: I just -- lt was llko. I
don't know, 46 mlnutes o! no belng there. as leavlng,
and then golng: ?You know. are you sure you
really want to go? I'm just never golng to see you
alter and? --

"118388 3: And?

erarss no. 1: And that was lt. It was
just --

":11!sz no. 3: You never touched hlo?

Hlf?zss no. I: No. He kept no.

911N288 no. 3: He touched you llnaudlblol?

HITNISS we. l: I told you he touched me
seven tlnes. he dldn?t eat me undressed. but he just
kept or mo.

?Irntas no. a: (Inaudlble). It's really
fucked up. he turn you on?

l: Yeah. and then dldn't, 
both. I Ielt every enotlen. That's the reason why
I'm so toroentod.

?xtures no. 3: So the only contact

 

 




400(inaudible)?

no. 1: And touching me. touching no
all over. touching my boobs or my -- 1 let him. I'm
:00 percent wrong.

wrr?zss no. 3: How about kissing?

WITNESS NO. 1: Hot really. 1 don't know.
I don't think 1 really over kissed him. He kept
trying to kiss no.

9123233 N0. 3: Did you (inaudible)?

wrtuzss N0. 1: Re. 1 was turned on in the
beginning because I made this really long and maybe
his putting into all these toolings and just so much
built-up (college. I mean. it's not like we had
talked about shit. we had not not talked about shit.

30. 3: This is only one day. on
Saturday?

wrtutss no. 1: Yeah.

no. 3: Do I know every detail about

this?
WITNESS NO. Yes.
urturss NO. 3: For the rest 0! my life?
WITNESS NO. res. (lnaudlblel oh. yes.
NO. 3: No other people that you
know?

witness no. i: No other people.

 

 

HARTFORD a TECHNOLOGY
ualnnemb

23

 

 

erased it.? And my mouth lucking (inaudible).

witness BO. 3: I'm sure you're not the
lirst. I need to know that there's not one ounce of a
detail that you're lying to me?

arrests no. 1: 'No.

urtutsa no. 3: You never had sex?

no. 1: Ne.

urtutss NO. 3: Are you ever going to see
him again?

thutss N0. 1: There's a chance. yes.

witness no. 3: Did you ever touch hin?

wrsutas 80. 1: no. (inaudible).

no. 3: I don't want to you to lie
(inaudible). Rhere are you new?

no. 1: 1 don't know it we can make
it.

?118283 no. 3: Where are you --

witness no. 1: You're a great dad.

no. 3: Are you asking for
rorgiveness. or are you saying this is what happened?

"128288 No. 1: Oh, I detiniteiy want
(orgiveness.

WITNESS no. 3: Just to make it clear to you
that the grass is not greener on the other drive.

"states 80. l: I wanted to tell you. I've

 

 


nun?wub
unejudhdupmduaem

?90'-wrrutss no. 8: will you ever see
(inaudible)?

uttutss N0. 1: 1 don't know. I can't say
no because he may come in and get his hair cut. 1
don't know. I don?t want to not ever see him again.

le?l?s NO. 3: Why not?

le?tas NO. 1: Because.

estates no. 3: Because you love him?

RITRIBO no. 1) No. 1 don't love him. It
takes a lot more to love somebody. I have so many
mixed emotions about something (inaudible) 1 also care
(or -- .

no. 3: You've been hall-raped and
blackmailed.

Hlf?l?? 80. 1: Yes.

urtntaa no. 3: And you're not going to tell
anybody about that? th? Because (inaudible)?

no. 1: When i came back, I said to
him: "I'm very. very. very pissed oil at you. 
grossed out. I'm so pissed ell.?

He said: '1 know.?

?You took a picture.?

He said: it?s just because I
tantasised about you, I fantasiaed about all these

things. and you could ruin my life. And -- but 1

 

 





24

 

 

been tucked up. like, i don't know. I've been
depressing lsic) so many thoughts 1 thought that --
there's this weird torment oi -- I never lelt that
botoro.

wrrutss NO. 3: It there is a chance in hell
for us or (inaudible)? To able to say to go somewhere
else (inaudible) but of course (inaudible) but it
there is a chance in hell (or us. and 1 mean even way
down the road. you need to show some sort of real
remorse and adult ability te put yourselt in better
situations.

?lt?tno NO. 1: (lnaudiblo).

uxrussa no. 3: I don't know about that.

911N288 no. 1: You obsessed over the
tucking (inaudible) things.

no. 3: Just because l'n not an
idiot and I knew someone and I knew something was
going on. 1 know the person tree the first time you
talked about him. i need you to stop talking about
him and then hit no or he?s going to look at us, and
than two calls. and then lied to about this and then i
lied to -- asked you to tell no the truth and not
tucking (inaudible) and things add did not (inaudible). have you told me the

entire truth?

 

 


unlneeun


?118283 no. i: would you rather i not tell
you?

WITNESS NO. 3: For the sake or our
relationship and any sort of future. I absolutely need
to know every tucking truth. That's it. Obsessing
and all that; that?s on no. But the tucking truth is
on you.

SITNESS no. i: i can't ever go back to

l-

HIINISS NO. 3: You need it.

WITNESS NO. 1: Re. No (inaudible).

WITNESS N0. 3: You (inaudible).

80. is. Are you kidding me?

RIINBSS no. 3: You don't have the option of
telling (inaudible).

RITNISS no. (Inaudible).

HITNESS N0. Do you want a divorce?

HIIRBSS 80. I don't know what 1 want.

HIINISS no. 3: Have you spoken to him

since?
HITNISS No. 1: 
HITHISS 80. 3: There are no other truths --
?xtures NO. 1: Ho.
wif?lss no. 3: E-oeils? rhene calls?
Texts?

 

 

HARJFORDREFOKHN68116HNODOGY
wueaszmuunhauu

27

 

 

RIINZSB no. 3: You need to have any
(inaudible) from here?

RIINISS no. i: (Inaudible) l'm ao ashamed
or myselt. I?m so ashamed. (eel like the only way
to be really taithrul to you is to love you with my
whole heart because this is so unshaking. I mean, it
is shaking. don't want to be like this. I want to
be strong and 

?118888 N0. 3: You didn't kiss him once
(inaudible) when you came over?

"128288 NO. 1: NO. I didn't.

ulr?rsa N0. 3: And you'Ve never been to his
home other than those two tines that one day?

urrurss No. is No. No. I swear on that
baby.

assures no. 3: Never walked with him around
the neighborhood?

HITNISS NO. 1: No. Never. - please. I
just told you the hardest thing ever. I swear. no.

no. 3: I know everything?

HITNISS NO. 1: You know everything.

WITNESS NO. 3: And I've heard that several
times this week, and I really want (inaudible).

NO. l: i mean. do you still love me

new? Because this is a pretty tucked up thing.

 

 


?Klaramd




No. nothing. Zero percent.

no. 3: is there anyone else
(inaudible)?

HIINISS R0. 1: No. No. Nothing. I just
felt surprised at all. I just think -- do you have
those thoughts?

no. 3: I've had those thoughts in
the past. yeah. i told you that.

?zr?tss no. 1: No. you haven't.

"It?zss no. 3: Yes. i have. but nothing
like that. This is just a line that I know, and 
have not tucked with that line. The closest thing
that ever happened to me era 1 was blocked out and
someone kissed me and stopped it. And, yes. I was a
coward for not telling you. and then told you. And
what I told you was 

N0. is You were like --

RIINISS no. 3: -- not your tault. not your
fault. Not me being contused or any o2 that because
or you, I was contused and I fucked up. and that was
the closest.

wxrutss no. 1: But 10:. telling you. - 1
don't blame you tor Vegas. 1 don't blame you for
this. but I do think that there's something wrong with

the way that I --

 

 


(330737-000!


28

 

 

WITNESS No. 3: i love you. i hate you
right now. I hate you (or what you've done to
yourself. (Inaudible). took at me. I love you.
Right new 1 just don't (inaudible) knowing that you
lied to me this whole tine. still try. - you
lied to me.

WITNESS NO. 1: I'm so sorry. Like. I even
don't know. - I was just wanting thoughts. I thought that would do
it.

"128888 NO. 3: A woman who was raped and
blackmailed 50 shades of Grey style. How tucking
poetic.

And you never came? How long does it
(inaudible)?

uxrurss NO. 1: Hhat do you mean? Like
30 minutes in the morning and then i don't know how
long -- that's how long 1 was there. 45 minutes
(inaudible).

WITNESS no. 3: The whole time when you went
over to get your keys, was still touching you and
lingering you and all this shit?

WITNESS we. 1: Just coaxing and. you
know --

WITNESS no. 3: It you vent to 

 

 


uunaoaa
are an

"113288 NO. 1: It was just tormenting.

"113388 N0. 3: To avoid to let that happen.

NO. 1: Yeah.

wrrutse 80. 3: How did you (eel
(inaudible)? Has he masturbating?

wrruras we. 1: He touched himself.

WITNESS no. 3: You never put your hand on
him?

"113388 R0. 1: No. It was him trying to
make me leel good and. i don't know. whatever.
(inaudible).

uxt?tss no. 3: Do you think that you could
ever heal and be able to have sex with me again?

no. i: I don't know. i thought
about you. know you would never (inaudible) -- you
wouldn't cheat on be like that.

th?tSS no. 3: going to be honest with
you and say i knew you lied and i know something
horrible had happened. But when you said it was over.
i tried to let go and i took a step in my life to
not (inaudible) and to not stress. to let you have
whatever it was that you had to lie about. I had
hoped that (inaudible) and it wouldn't be a
relationship that showed no a lot. but I knew that I

didn't want to deal with it because it will only hurt

 

 

HAEJFORDREPORTDW381ECKNOLDGY
bananas


31

 

 

me so l'n not obsessing and loving you and (inaudible)
loving and sink into myselt.

?178288 1: without being with me. it's
so hard. 1 can't.

witness NO. 3: (Inaudible).

wrrurss NO. 1: I wanted to because i just
wanted to stop reeling the way that I teal. i hate
it. 1 tool so guilty a lot of times.

wit?lss no. 3: The grass is always greener.

?xtures no. 1: But it's not that. i don't
have those thoughts. It's not the thoughts oi ?this
would be better: this would be better.? It's not
that. it's more just like --

Hifutsa wehave
sex with him?

no. 1: Ho.

"?13288 N0. Did ask him?

NO. 1: No.

wrrurss N0. 3: Did you guide him?

wtrNIss no. i: No.

no. 3: Did you tell him what to do?

HITNISE no. 1: No. 1 don't --

wrrutss no. 3: Did you ever want to have
son when you saw his taco?

WITNESS no. i: No. No. The only time 1

 

 



Judu?unnhvun





06because I was letting you go.

RITNIOS NO. 1: 1 know.

natures we. 3: So last night was the worst
night ever and the night before hearing you question.

HXTNIEB NO. i: i'm sorry.

?313888 no. 3: And when you started
questioning. didn?t want to hear it because i had
already started my healing. And you cannot suck me
back into this loveless place where I loved so much
and I'm not loved or at least loved tor. And I'm not
saying that you haven't done a lot and work at us. but
after all that work and all that I've been to you
recently to have this happen on the day after -
birthday. tucked up.

No. i: i know.

?113388 R0. 3: it sucks no back into this
tornado. but i need to know is this a real tornado
because then I have a decision. do I get back into the
stern and ride it out. or do I just let the store
happen and help you reaettle? That is a question (or
you to tucking answer. Sorry for the pressure. but
this is on you. i am not going to emotionally put
mysel! back into this spot. Not going to (inaudible)
just a pretty tucking (inaudible) all week because i

was letting go. changing and opening a new chapter (or

 

 


. Bunnoud
uuwjudu?qm?hym?

32

 

 

was really turned on was in the very beginning and
once he (inaudible).

wxrutse no. 3: You're just going to let
this man got away with this?

No. i: I don't know how to describe
it.

"318888 we. 3: He took such advantage at
you. You need to tell.

NO. 1: No. I don't want you to 

no. 3: it there's -- a time to
learn tron this iucliing lesson with -. then you
need to tell. Risk it. Risk the embarrassment.

wrrurss N0. is It's not like that. though.

wlrutss NO. 3: it's not like what? This
notheriucker is running (or senator.

NO. is ?hat else can help us?

thuras N0. 3: i know that he comes of! as
this mother tucking manly here and it's all about
resilience and honor and all that.

le?lss N0. l: I knew you would obsess.
You're obsessed.

estates 3: ho. No. No. This was
when -- beioro that i knew you were lying to me.

urrutss no. is Bullshit. Don't lie to me.

no. 3: precise.

 

 


B?i?10a8


urrataa no. i: You haven't looked today or
yesterday?

wxrutss so. a: took no. - on -
birthday. you told no it was overtold you yesterday that devastating cry was
about the kids because i know that there was nothing I
could do to control it. So not one tucking ounce of
energy from me has been spent on learning about you or
catching you or anything. i know -- knew and I know
that you lied to no. but I knew that nothing would
come of it il I dug except (or pain (or no. I didn't
want to know. Every single person told no. ?none oi
this adds up. hunans ore mathematical: deducing she's
cheating on you.? and I said --

wrratss N0Stop. And i said. don't
eVon core anymore. I don't want to know because it
only hurts me." That's the tucking (inaudible).
That's the truth. Anything I knew tron bolero was
when i was panicking a week before you did this
knowing you had lied to no about this nan. And I'll
have you know. i can destroy his career in a hall an
hour.

no. i: it you do that. then I would

hate you.

 

 


lemmas


35

 

 

er?lad we. 1: "all. fine, then he's like
Bill Clinton or whatever. but it doesn't mean he can't
he a great governor. It doesn't oean he's not
brilliant or when -- when 1 go back there
and (inaudible) a lot better. that's the hard things.
persuasive and 

witness so. 3: Are you in love with this
guy?

Hlf?l?? NO. I: No. I'm in love with tho
idea of -- ot him. you know: not him.

wrrutss No. 3: You don't think you're
tailing in love with this guy?

HITNIEB ND. 1: No. i think that that takes
an open heart. you know. like. both parties. l've
never loved the way 1 love you. All or your worries
are my worries except 0?

?113888 3: You know (inaudible).

witness NO. 1: 1 tool like in doing this
I'm alraid that there's no way we could be together
with you (inaudible) and me being okay because the
thing that have hated more than anything in our
relationship is the researching everything. I hate lt.
I hate it more than I hate anything and --

wrrutss NO. 3: And every time l've boon

rightWITNESS no. 3: he took a picture of my wile
naked as blackmail.

witness NO. 1: I would hate you.

WITNESS NO. 3: he took a picture of ny wile
naked as blackmail. There is no worse person. so you
tell him -- actually. you tell him nothing. 1 don't
want you in contact with this petson ever again.
it -- if you come to the conclusion that you want to
try linaudible) but you cannot (inaudible) would have.
Take a cue tron our 16-year-old.

no. 1: There?s a big dilteronco.


lenzss 80. 3: This man is a part o!
ruining our family and he's got away with it.

RITNISS NO. it It's my iauit. though. it
really is. like --

R0. 3: Yeah. some 0! it is. but you
didn't take his pants olt. you didn't ask hio to go to
your house. you didn't --

no. i: he's at fault. i know he is.

he. s: he's the one running (or
senator. not you. Or governor. not you. You cannot
let this nan charade his lite as this great.
upstanding. everything. look at me. I've got it all

together. and it's always bullshit.

 

 


gunman;


36

 

 

wrrutss so. i: her every tine. -. Fuck
that. You look into shit all the tine. No. not every
time. - ?l'wo tines in tucking 12 years. One tine
really is the only time I've ever really cheated.

Ho. 3: was right that you would
lie to me. was right that you would cheat on no.

No. 1: You hovon't lied to no? You
haven't looked through shit? You haven't -- -
don't you dare try to pretend like you're this pertect


wrrutss no. 3: I?m not.

wrruzss so. i: i don?t search through your
shit. so i don't know. For all I know you've had many
conversations with women onlina. You've had many
conversations with wouon through phone.

Have you?

wrrurss no. 3: Yes. tons. No.

Rif?las no. i: Have you?

wrrutss no. 3: no. I don't tucking do
anything. I support you in everything. 1 come home.
I'm with the kids.

witness no. l: in all this time you
haven't?

urrutse no. 3: No. you can

tucking -- all my minutes are accounted tor.

 


narrows


 



OUO

wrrutss no. 1: But you have all my minutes
accounted (or.

"128388 NO. 3: No. I don't. Going to work.
i don't know when you don't have clients. 1 don't get
to go to work and have spaces. Spaces --

wr'rursa no. 1: Bullshit, -. You have
all kinds or tine. I don't know when you do things.
I would never in a million years look into that.

errata: no. 3: Okay.

"tints: no. i: 1 can't be with you if
you're going to search into everything. It happened
with the thought in my mind at --

wrr?rss n0. 3: Right, justifying your
(inaudible) behavior.

"123238 no. i: No, no. it's not at all.

wrr?tau no. 3: Hell. listen. some people
are just dillerent. and it i'n a little suspicious on
that kind of stuti. maybe that's somewhat on you and
your generosity or your commitment --

l: (Inaudiblo).

wrruzss no. 3: Okay. okay. Other people
are. too. So maybe that's a part of your commitment
or generosity to go out oi your tucking butler tone
and help somebody and say. "No. babe. I love you.

Like. i promise we're" -- you know. blah-blah. But

 

 


uulnm??a
uwwhu?nhnmahyua

39

 

 

for a moment on the 20th when you were supposed to be
out with your lriends?

no. i: I was out with my lriends.
They thought i was talking to you. i lied to then.

no. 3: Oh. the circles we weave.

no. 1: - 1 don't know who I an.

wrrutss no. 3: That's nice.

wrrutas no. i: i'm so scared.

"traces NO. 3: "hot do you want item no?

wrrutaa NO. is You (inaudible) so strong.

NO. 3: Don't tell me that you're
never going to see - again.

"?13388 NO. 1: Hell. that was the worst.

no. 3: No. because I 
(inaudible).

wrrursa 80. 1: No. ruck no. l?ve had such
a -- are you tucking kidding me?

no. 3: what did he say? Because
obviously he picked up on something that I didn't.

no. i: it was horrible.

"118888 no. 3: did he say? what did
he say that was not the truth?

?113288 N0. 1: it was how he acted acted. 3o horrible.

urturae no. 3: And you (inaudible! I'm

 

 


J?ul??om?


0400instead you get angry and you do understand what that
looks like. and you do understand what it looks like
when 1 end up being right.

"nurse no. i: - all oi these other
times. all or those other times. those millions of
times that you were wrong. that's why I'm angry.

wxsurss so. 3: This has been a ditterant
weekend and week (or me, and the last thing i want to
do is be sucked back into your tornado that you were
or that I was, okay. And this last waeh has been
tucking liberating and beautiiul [or me.

no. i: l'm sorry (or everything.

witness no. 3: Yeah. so. too. -
there's something 1 need to know. I need to know
you?re not going to hurt yourseli. i don't want make
this to become overwhelming and you do something rash.

no. is Seriously?

wrrures so. 3: Seriously.

wrrurss no. i: i did. I mean, to me doing
that, it was weird. It was like I wanted that. I
wanted to hurt mysell.

"tinted N0. 3: Could you have sex with me
after this? This was last weekend.

WITN888 NO. 1: No. Just 

Hlf?lsd we. 3: And you just talked to him

 

 


numerals
ww-hudn?qunhgun

?0

 

 

back.

wxruraa no. i: No. - l'n telling you.
it was horrible. when you leit the room he said:
I'soenething's changed in you this last three to (our
months. so tell no what the tuck is going on.?

NO. 3: And what did you say?

no. i: i said: ?Three or (our
Inonths?t'I

And he said: ?Yeah. You're obviously
cheating on hin.?

er?lds no. 3: He was right.

?xtures N0. 1: how wish that i --
linaudiblo) see. to be able to tell him I have never
telt so scared in my lite. it was so horrible.

Hif?lss NO. 3: You?ve been calm the whole
time and you haven't told him the truth so --

no. 1: Ne. bullshit. -
whenever he said --

wrrures NO. 3: "hot did you say in
responsehim?

viruses no. 1: Yeah. i just said no. i
couldn't say anything. - I just sat there. It
was so unconlortable. And he said: '?ell, my wife
cheated on no. and i know what it looks like. -.

Don?t iuck around with no. l?ve been doing this (or

 




 

years. you know. and you know what, you're giving
up. No wonder why you're sad. - you're giving up
on your iamiiy. You are stepping out on your tamily.?

no. 3: You don't tool like that was
true?

wxsutss no. 1: You don't tucking talk to
somebody like that, though. when you?re a counselor.
You really think that that's the best way to be a
counselor?

wrrutss no. 3: I'm not a counselor. Maybe
it is. i don't know. I do know that trust hin
beyond what i understand.

wxrutss no. i: i don't. It was horrible.

wxrutss no. 3: Hell. that's an issue.
?inaudible! knows the truth.

wx-mtss no. 1: I canwould like to you think
about that.

who else knows?

no. i: - and - are the
only two people I told.

?xtures HO. 3: You told than the details?

NO. 1: Yeah.

wrrurss no. 3: And what did they say?

no. 1: Hell, they didn't say

 

 


13mm


{3

 

 

somebody else. i love the idea at us so much. love
it. but i also don't want to continue to light all
those And I know tho second that you fool
depressed. it sparks that in no. and it's not your
(suit. but it does do that. it that's something
that I can work on with a separate counselor. would
absolutely do that. I want to do that anyways. But
there's no way in hell l'm seeing -. never (air
were sick to my stomach.

NO. 3: i don't like the (act that
you're in the position that in you're right now and
you're asking rules. saying nevors. i don't like
that. And that's one of the things I don't like about
this whole situation is that you make these decisions.
you may think they're so solid and you stick with then
because you're tucking stubborn like that. You're 
rule maker.

"118288 NO. 1: I am?

wrrutsa no. 3: l'm learning to be very.
very tlekibio. l've done all
these things. so you can dig the things that you say
or things that you've done and thinking you know it
all and defining everything.

HXTNIBB no. i: i don't. He should probably

let -- - go into the grocery store. Park up

 

 


B?H?wa?
wuwlu?mbnn?hpnn

400-anything. Obviously it's out or character {or no to
do anything and that they didn?t know what they would
do it they were me 

wirutss NO. 3: They don't know what they
would do. as in tell or iinaudible)?

wirutss NO. l1 Because I said it's killing
no. I wanted to tell you so bad that first night.
that's why i made - sleep with no. It was just
a year ago and I couldn't process the whole -- it's so
bizarre. I don't know. i had so many mind games that
day. like this scared. like. dislike. hate. pissed
otl. care -- you know. I neon. just every emotion I
[sit so I just wanted to do something. I (olt
horrible. But --

8118288 noyour
system?

Ulf?l?s uo. l: 1 don't know. that's my
hope.

"113388 no. 3: But you don't know?

wrrutss NO. 1: The only reason why I say I
don't know is because l'n so jumbled without sleeping.
and 1 know that the second that l'm around you and the
kids. 1 want -- i want -- I want to do whatever can
to make us work. I can't envision a life without you

at all. and 1 can't envision a lire with you with

 

 


outneomn
hudnbwu?umn

{4

 

 

closer. It's 5:56.

ursutsa no. 3: ilnaudible) in your entire
lilo?

uzsusee no. 1: ?y entire lite, yes.

wrsutse no. 3: Is his number still under
- lolder?

"128388 no. 1: Yes. I haven't touched it.

HXTNIBS 80. 3: I don't know what to any
right now except there will be sore contact it there's
a chance. I don't even know what you're asking (or.
Are you asking tor a chance? Because quit fucking
with we.

HITNISB no. is I know. i know. I know. I
know. I know.

wlf?tea no. 3: This is worse than the
cheating. This is going to take some processing for
me in a new way. I do love you. Every goal and
aspiration that i had with you is still the same. I
don't know what that path looks like anymore than I
did yesterday, although new I see hall of it. All
right. i see it halt as clearly.

assures no. 1: Do you think you would be
able to not worry every single time my phone rings --

wxrutss no. 31 New now you know what a

slippery slope is and can do.

 


mn'uulnmoua


 

wxruras no. 1: Yeah. i know what a tornado
is. actually.

uxrutss N0. 3: I want to say and things it
1 tool like I?ve thought it through and it's necessary
(or no to say something like. you know. you'll novot
speak or see this person again. even it it?s in the
salon brietly. but I can?t say that right now because
I need to process this. But you need to quit tucking
with me. and you need to tell no what it is that you
want or what it is that you're willing to try because
you are at ground zero with trust right now. And
that's everything to no because I have finally trusted
nyselt again.

1 tool bad (or you. and I want to help you.
but really need my distance [or a minute in many
ways because you can't help me.

wx-rurss no. 1: Okay.

?lf?tss no. 3: The ball is in your court as
to what you want to do. what you want to ask no to do.
You tool (too. You need to tool open. You need to
tool like I'm trustworthy. So it you're having a
thought. you need to tell no: you need to ask no. If
it's something 1 can do for you. I'll think about it.
and I?ll do it. If it's something I can't. I'll think

about it. and l'll let me know why or when.

 

 


uunnwau
bm?dupnh?

 

 

uoranraa 

STATE OF MISSOURI 1
38
COUNTY OF ST. LOUIS 1

I. CARRIE A. CAMPBELL. RDR. CRR. NO COR. IL CSR-
and Notary Public in and (or the State of Missouri.
duly commissioned. qualified and authorized. do hereby
certily that I reported the following tape-recorded
conversations in shorthand and transcribed into
typewritlnq. and that the torogoing pages correctly
set iorth the conversation or the parties. to the best
o! my ability, and is in all respects a lull. true.
correct and complete transcript oi the conversations.

iurther that I am not at counsel or
attorney (or any of the parties in the conversation,
not related to nor interested in any at the parties.

In ?heater, have hereunto subscribed my

name and allixed my Notarial Seal on this 8th day 0!
January. 8.0.. 20l8.

My Commission expires February 2. 2018.

?nal, 4. 4439411
Carrie A. Campbell. 833 CRR can con

Certified Shorthand Reporter
Certitled Rooltime Reporter

 

 


uunwreuu

Right now l'n not going to bounce this ball.
You're -- it's in your hands because you?re tucking me
up and taking me into your tucked up world. and I'm
better oi! without that because 1 was doing well. 1
know I'm a stronger man than such I know that on.
and 1 know I'm a stronger nan than you've ever thought
1 was.

So we'll see. what it is. we'll see. I
don't know. because I still don't know what you're
asking. So when you have a question. you let me know.
I'm going to welt it oft. Get groceries.

?states no. i: - (inaudible).

urtutso no. 3: This is exactly the time (or
to you do this. sorry, but you got to deal with
however it is have to deal with this right now. Let
me process.

?118283 NO. 1: (lnaudiblcl.

uxrutss so. 3: Go home and got your purse
and come back. I'll be home with the kids. I?m
sorry. Look at no. I love you. (lnaudiblo) tucking
hate you. Our love is more stronger than (lnaudiblel.
but there's your honesty and there's mine. You
(inaudible) -- you really do. our love is so much

stronger than that. (lnaudlblol.

 

 

HMUTORDREFOKHNOI1ECHNOUXW
mndFu?
udm?qm?hywn

chris 



I 4

. f" . 
?11 a?There
is
another
woman
hmyour
home
right
now.
I'm
assumi
ng
youTe
out of
town
again,
tfyou
want to
know
more
contact
me
here.
I'm
sorry.
This
isn't
fake or
spam.
They
are at
the
Maryla
nd
addres
5

Chris

gheena Chestnut Greitens

canpershellta?gvahoo.comsq

 

Thanks very much for writing. l'mrtravelling from June 24 to July 5 with limited access to
email. I look forward to responding to your message when i return.

 

Sheena Chestnut Greitens

Assistant Professor. University of Missourl
Non-Resident Senior Fellow, Brookings institution



To; Sheena Greitens
- Today was not the ?rst time he has had her in your home.

?90

From: Sheena Chestnut Greitens ssheena 

To: <canpershell@yahoo. corn; sg>;

Subject: Out of the office Jurie? 24-Juiy 5 Re: Another woman with erlc
Sent: Fri, Jul 3 2015 2: 4t? .00 PM 

Thanks very much for writing. I'm travelling from June 24 to July 5 with
limited access to email. I look forward to responding to your message
when I return.

-- a

 

Sheena Chestnut Greitens

Assistant Professor, University of Missouri
Non-Resident Senior Feilow, Brookings institutienr": - .4 -





 

 

 

 
 
     

 

  
 
  
  
 
 
  
 
  
 
 
 

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a. 



DOWD BEN LLP

Edward Dowd Direct Dial: 314.889.7301 

 

February 22, 201 8

By Email

Todd Richardson. Speaker of the House
Elijah Haahr, Speaker Pro Tent

Rob Vescovo, Majority Leader
Missouri House of Representatives

201 West Capitol Avenure

Jefferson City, Missouri 65101
todd.richardson@house.mo.gov

elij ah.haahr@house.mo. gov
rob.veseovo@house.mo.gov

Re: House Committee Investigation of Governor Greitens 

Dear Messrs. Richardson. Haahr. and Veecovo:

We welcome reviewing this issue with the independent. bipartisan committee of the
Missouri House of Representatives

For 40 years as an attorney for the public and for private litigants. I have never seen
anything like this. The charges are unfounded and baseless. The Governor is absolutely innocent.
Not only is he presumed innocent he is innocent. The Circuit Attorney?s investigation is
completely unusual.

This statute has never been used like this in Missouri history. In unprecedented fashion.
the Circuit Attorney circumvented the local police force and hired her own investigators. We
attempted to meet with the Circuit Attomey and make the Govemor available to discuss the
issues. They refused. They proceeded to ?le an indictment that has no facts.

We will work with the conunittee. We will be deposing witnesses and will be happy to
share information with you with the Court's permission.

Sincerely.

WK QM

Edward L. Dowd

Partner
Dowd Bennett LLP
7733 Foasvrn BOULEVARD. Sum: 1900 - Sr. Lows. 63105 
314.889.7300 314.863.2111 . 23

Page 1 of 25

Ryan Clearwater

From: Ryan Clearwater

Sent: Wednesday. February 28, 2018 5:59 PM

To: 'edowd@dowdbennett.com'

Subject: RFD to E6

Attachments: 2018.02.28 - RFD to EG.pdf; 2018.02.28 - RFD to E6 2.pdf

Good Evening:
Attached are two documents from Representative Jay Barnes for you. Please let me know if you have any questions.

Sincerely,

. 
2.,
Law?"Z? T:

RYAN . CLEARWATER

Of?ces of Representatives Jay Barnes Paul Curtman
Missouri House of Representatives

201 West Capitol Avenue

Jefferson City, MO 65101

573-751-2412

573-751-3776

40'

Page 2 of 25

CAPITOL OFFICE COMMITTEES
State Capitol Chairman:
2m Wen Capitol Avenue Rule: - Administratitv ?alight
Jefferson City. MO ?lm-6806 Member:

Elementary and Sectmdery liducnticm
Crime Prevention and Public Safety
Joint Interim Kurnminw no Stan.-

Tcic: {573) 751.2412

 

- Employee Wages
ltohlail: Joint Committee an Administrative
Jay.linmcr@hmuc.mo.gnv Ruin
MISSOURI HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
JAY BARNES
State Representative

District 60
February 28. 2018
Edward L. Dowd. Jr.
Dowd Bennett
Via email:
edowd@dowdbennett.com
Dear Counsel:

It was good to speak with you brie?y this morning. Thank you for reaching out to discuss some
key facts that you deem relevant. As Istated in the press conference announcing formation of
this committee. our task is to gather facts in a fair, thorough. and timely manner. To that end. it
would be helpful to start with the evidence that the St. Louis Circuit Attorney turned over to your
team in response to your discovery requests. Please ?nd attached a formal request for said
documents.

At this point in time. the precise schedule of the committee has not been determined. However.
we expect to take sworn testimony from relevant witnesses within the next three weeks. We are
happy to work with you on the timing of that schedule so that it does not con?ict with other
obligations in the Circuit Attorney's case.

Sincerely.

def/3??

Rep. Jay Barnes

Page 3 of 25

HOUSE SPECIAL INVESTIGATIVE COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT
REQUEST FOR PRODUCTION OF AND THINGS

PLEASE TAKE NOTICE THAT pursuant to 21 .400, the House Special
Investigative Committee on Oversight requests that Governor Greitens and his counsel
produce for inspection and cepying the documents described below. Production shall be made by
5:00 pm. on Wednesday, March 6 at the o?ice of Chairman Jay Barnes, Room 306 of the State
Capitol Building.

DEFINITIONS AND INSTRUQEIONS

A. As used herein, the term ?document? means the original or drafts of any kind of
written or graphic matter. however produced or reproduced, of any kind or description, whether
sent or received or neither. and all copies thereof which are different in any way from the
original (whether by interlineation, receipt stamp, notation, indication of copies sent or received
or otherwise), regardless of whether designated ?con?dential,? ?secret," ?privileged," or
otherwise and, including without limitation, any writing, paper, account ledger, invoice,
statement, bill, agreement, contract, memorandum, letter, object, evaluation. report, record, study
note, diary, working paper, minute books, index sheet, summary, recording (including audio or
video), or memorandum of telephone or other conversation, or of interviews, or of conferences.
however produced or reproduced, whether computer or electronically retained or generated to
which the defendant has or has had possession, custody or control of, has or has had access to, or
has knowledge of. ?Document" also includes. but is not limited to, any electronically stored data
or paper document. This includes. but is not limited to, electronically stored data on magnetic or
optical storage media as an ?active" ?le or ?les (readily readable by one or more computer
applications or forensics software): any electronic ?les saved as a backup; any ?deleted? but
recoverable electronic ?les on said media; any electronic file fragments (?les that have been
deleted and partially overwritten with new data); and slack (data fragments stored randomly from
random access memory on a hard drive during the normal Operation of a computer [?le
slack and or RAM slack] or residual data left on the hard drive alter new data has overwritten
some but not all of previously stored data). However, in no case does ?document? require
disclosure of materials protected by attorney-client privilege or attorney work product.

B. ?You,? ?Your,? and ?Yourself? refers to the person to whom these Requests
are directed and any of his, her or its officers, directors, shareholders, employees, consultants,
agents or attorneys.

C. If your response to any request herein is that the responsive documents are not in
your possession, custody, or control, then please identify who has possession, custody. or control
of the documents and where they are located.

D. With respect to any document called for by these requests which is withheld

pursuant to any claim of privilege other than attorney-client or attorney work product privilege,
please list the following information for each such document:

(1) The title and general subject matter of the document;

Page 1 of 2

Page 4 of 25

(2) The date of the document;
(3) The identity of the author of the document;
(4) The nature of and basis for the claim of privilege; and

(5) The identity of all persons who saw the contents of the document.

B. When the term ?person? is used, it means a natural person, ?rm, partnership,
corporation. preprietorship, business trust, joint venture, association or any other organization or
de?nable entity.

F. When the tertn ?identify? refers to a person, it means to state the full name.
present or last known address, and employment of each such person.

0. Whenever your answers to document requests refer to other sources of
information, please identity such source with suf?cient detail to enable Plaintiff to subpoena any
persons who are the source of such information and/or to obtain by a subpoena duces tecmn any
document which serves as a source of information.

H. To the extent required by law, these document requests are to be deemed
continuing, and if you or your attorneys, agents, representatives or other responsible persons
discover additional information as to matters inquired of in such document requests between the
time the answers are made and the date of trial on the merits in this case, supplemental answers
shall be served, fully setting forth such newly discovered information.

I. Space is included for answers to these document requests upon the original as
required by rule. If additional space is required, separate attachments may be used and properly

designated.
FOR PRODUCTION

Request All documents disclosed to Eric Greitens or his counsel by the of?ce of
the Circuit Attorney of the City of St. Louis in connection with the
criminal indictment ?led on or about February 22, 2018, including but not
limited to all documents referenced in the cover letter sent by the Circuit
Attorney that was publicized on or about February 27, 2018.

Request All documents in your possession, custody, or control other than the
documents provided as a response to Request fit relating to the criminal
indictment ?led on or about February 22, 2018.

Request All documents consisting of or relating to communications between you
and - including but not limited to emails or text messages.

Request Ail agreements or contracts between .and you or any person or entity
acting on your behalf.

Page 2 of 2

 

t-ert-?rw: 

Page 5 of 25

 

 

CIRCUITATIO Trogway

 

 

cmossr LOUIS 

111d Matit'e'tSt; 5 (01
Stunts.qu t0! 
(314)622 94:
February 27, 2018
Mr. Jack Garvey
Mr. James Martin
713 Blvd. Suite 1900
St. Louis. Missouri 63105
Re: State v. Greitens
Cause Number: - 
Mr. Jack Garvey and James Martin: '5 - I I 
BY DEPUTY

 

My records re?ect that you are in possession of the following discovery:
1. Grand Jury indictment filed on February 22. 2018 -

Plasma tind enclosed the following discovery:
. Request for Discovery (2 pages);
. Transcripts: of taped recordings ofP. S. and, K. (47, pages);
. Email questions and answers for, KMOV interview. 'of P. (5 pages):
. Email of ..S to P. dated Match 24, 2015 (lpa'go)
Email ofK..S to P. datedMoreh 26 2015 (ipage)
. Email of KS to P3 dated July 2015; (2 pages)
E. statements to the ublie (l .
Taped statements 011222 1 
Picture of admin contact of 3.0 (l page);
10. Picture of (ipoge); - . ..
ll. Picture ofemail from K. 8. dated August 25.; 20i5 (lpage);
12. Picture of email of K8 to- E. 0 dated October 20. 2015 (ipage);
13. 6?3 Faeebcok post (3 pages): 



have not received any discovery from you to date. Please forward any discovery you 
have. If you have any questions or would like to discuss the case. please call me at (314). 89

6289.1 look forward to speaking with you.

Sincerely,

Isl Robert Steele

First Assistant 2ircuit= Attorney
MO Bar ii. . 

cc: Court File

 

  

  
   

 

 

 

 

Page 6 of 25

Jay Barnes

From:
Sent:
To:
Subject:

Dear Jay, Sounds good. Ed

Ed Dowd
314.330.5160 (mobile)

edowdeowdbennettxom

Ed Dowd <edowd@dowdbennett.com>
Monday. March 05. 2018 2:36 PM

Jay Barnes

Re: Discovery Materials

This email is from the law ?rm of Dowd Bennett LLP and may be privileged.

On Mar 5, 2018, at 2:16 PM, Jay Barnes day.8arnes@hgugg.mo.gov> wrote:

Dear Ed:

Thank you for the quick phone call today. Consistent with our phone call from this afternoon, we expect
to hear from you by noon tomorrow (Tuesday, March 6) regarding the status of our request for
documents. We will decide how to proceed next after having that conversation.

Sincerely,
Jay Barnes

Representative Jay Barnes

60th District

Missouri State Capitol, Room 306A

573.751.2412

Jay.Barnes@house.mo.gov

. an: - .. 

Page 7 of 25

Jay Barnes

From: Jay Barnes

Sent: Thursday, March 22. 2018 4:19 PM

To: edewd?dowdbennett.com

Attachments: 2018.03.22 - First lnterrogatorles to Gov. Greitens via Dowd.pdf
Dear Ed:

Please ?nd attached requests for sworn answers to written interrogatories directed. These questions are more
appropriate via interrogatory because they involve details that your client may have dif?culty recalling on-the-
spot in an interview with the committee. Answers to these interrogatories are due next Thursday. Please also be
aware that the committee has the authority and will, in fact, protect any personally-identi?able device or
account information provided to the committee against public disclosure.

1 am looking forward to our meeting tomorrow. As we discussed, Vice Chair Don Phillips will be present, as
well as staff attorneys Alex Curchin and Alix Hallen. In advance of our meeting, I request that you be prepared
to provide a time at which your client will be made available for sworn testimony before the committee. We are
happy to accommodate your and your client?s schedule at any time between Wednesday, March 28 to Thursday,
April 5.

Your client would be provided with the same courtesies and procedures as those for other witnesses who have
appeared before the committee. At your request, we would schedule the hearing at the Jefferson City Police
Department for privacy and security. In addition, counsel are permitted to sit at the witness table, but not
permitted to testify.

If your client plans to invoke his constitutional right not to testify, kindly request that you inform the
committee of this fact via written response by Monday of next week so that we can ?ll out our schedule over
the next few weeks and ful?ll our responsibilities in a timely fashion.

Sincerely,

Jay Barnes

. a. .-. . M~v n. 

 

 

Page 8 of 25

TO: Eric Greitens, via hand-delivery and email to Edward Dowd at edowd@dowdbemett.com

BEFORE THE HOUSE SPECIAL INVESTIGATIVE COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT



You are hereby requested to provide answers. sworn under oath. to the following interrogatories

and to provide the same by 5:00 pm. 'I?hm?sday. March 29, 2018 to the office of Chairman Jay
Barnes. Room 306-13, State Capitol Building. Jefferson City, Missouri.

As used herein, ?you? or ?your" or any derivative of the same refers to Eric Greitens.

?Communications device" refers to any phone (including, but not limited to smart-phones).

tablet, laptop, desktop. or lntemet-connected device capable of storing. receiving. or sending any

transfer of signs, signals, writing, images, sounds. data, or intelligence of any nature.

I. How many communications devices have you used since January I, 2015 for any
purpose. personal or professional? For each such communications device, answer the

following:

ANSWER:



Whether you still have possession or access to that device;

The phone number associated with that device;

The unique device identi?er associated with that device;

The IP addresses for any such devices;

For phones, whether the phone is or was a pay-by-month or ?humor" phone:
Whether you used any method to back-up or store the contents of
communications. photographs, or other documents sent, received, or created
on that device;

The service providers you used for purposes of sending or receiving
communications with the device; 

The service providers you used to back up or store the contents of
communications, photographs, or other documents sent, received, or created
on that device;

Whether you have an account or access to an account where data sent by.
received by, or generated by the communications device is backed-up or
accessible on the lnternet;

Whether you have a server or other computer equipment to which data iiom
the communications device is backed-up;

Whether you currently have or have ever had an iCloud account with Apple
relating to the use of Apple devices. such as an iPhone, iPad, or Mac
computer; and if so, the dates such accounts were opened and closed and
identifying information for your iCloud account, including your usemame;

Page 1 of 2

Page 9 of 25



.-. 

2. How many email accounts have you used since January 1, 2015 for any purpose, personal
or professional? For each such account, identify the address used and the dates for which
you used the account.

ANSWER:

3. Do you have an Apple 10 account? is so, how many and what email addresses are
associated with those accounts?

ANSWER:
VERIFICATION
STATE OF MISSOURI 
ss.
COUNTY of 

1, Eric Greitens hereby State under oath that i have read the allegations of the foregoing
lnterrogatories and the same are true to the best of my information and belief.

BY

 

.Bric Greitens

Subscribed and sworn to before me this day of 2018.

 

Notary Public

My Commission expires:

Page 2 of;

Page 10 of 25

sun?s-run: .-.- -- i \v-H .-- i~ a: qr,? .. . .9. .. .W?"Jay Barnes

From: Jay Barnes

Sent: Friday, March 23, 2018 1:17 PM
To: ed0wd?dowdbennettcorn
Subject: Follow?up on This Morning
Dear Ed:

It was great to meet with you this morning. As we discussed, your client has the opportunity to testify before the
committee under the same courtesies and circumstances as other witnesses who have testi?ed. I would note that
your client has been aware of this opportunity since the beginning of the investigation starting with the ?rst
communication we had on February 28 and following with several subsequent conversations.

While it is, of course, true that he has a right not to testify in the criminal trial, it is also true that he has the right
to testify so if he so chooses. As for our investigation, while he does not have a constitutional right to testify
before the committee at this point, we are treating it as if he does.

Now, nearly a month after the ?rst notice, the committee needs a ?rm answer from your client as to whether he
will testify. So that we may plan accordingly, we kindly request a written answer on whether he will exercise or
waive this right by Monday at 5:00 p.rn. If your client chooses not to participate in the process, that is his
choice. However, regardless of his choice, the committee will issue its report on time.

We also discussed the possibility of reviewing discovery from the criminal case pending in the City of St.
Louis. We are happy to review evidence from that case and are supportive of a motion by either party to make
an exception to the current order against disclosure to third parties. However, in the event any such evidence is
provided, we would insist on having the complete set of evidence. In other words, we will not accept cherry-
picked evidence from either the Circuit Attorney?s o?ice or your client.

Sincerely,

Jay Barnes

m? who-Gun. l? mun-u. - .3.-. 

Page 11 of 25

March 26, 20 8

Chairman Jay Barnes

Vice Chairman Donald Phillips
Representative Kevin Austin
Representative Shawn Rhoads
Representative Jeanie Latter
Representative Gina Mitten
Representative Tommie Pierson, Jr.

Dear Reps. Barnes, Phillips, Austin, Rhoads. Latter. Mitten and Pierson:

First and foremost, we wish to reiterate what we told the Chairman and Vice-Chairman of the Committee
when we met with them last week: Governor Greitens will cooperate fully with the work of this
committee.

Rep. Barnes has made two demands of the Governor: i) That we let him know by 5:00 p.nt. today
whether the Governor will testify and 2) that if the Governor agrees to testify, he do so within two weeks.

On the ?rst request. our answer is: yes. the Governor is willing to provide testimony to the committee, as
well as all necessary documentation, discovery, depositions, and other key information. Rep. Barnes'
second request. however, is unreasonable. This Committee was formed to investigate allegations made by
St. Louis City Circuit Attorney Kim Gardner. Trial in that case is 7 weeks away, and the court Just today
ordered that the case proceed to a trial by jury. Moreover, the court?s restrictions on what information
can and cannot be released make it impossible for the Governor to provide what the Committee needs to
complete its work. That includes discovery information from the Circuit Attorney, transcripts of
depositions of key witnesses, and other critical information that is not currently available to the
Committee. by court order. That information will be available only atter the criminal trial is concluded.

The Committee. the House, and the people of Missouri deserve a full and complete report. But due to no
fault of the Committee or the Governor, it is impossible for the Committee to accomplish that goal by
April 9. The timing of the release of any documents or reports from this Committee is all the more
important in light ofa jury trial. Anything published by this Committee will no doubt influence the
jury pool and the public about this case, and thus it is vital that the Committee?s work reflect the
full facts. That is why we respect?rlly request that the members of the Committee grant yourselves a brief
extension of a few weeks so that you may complete a thorough and comprehensive investigation.

Moreover. as you all know, the Governor is unable to testify prior to the criminal proceedings, as doing so
would violate his right to a fair trial. He would be under no such restriction once the trial concludes. in
other words, even though the Governor can and will provide information to the Committee over the next
two weeks not subject to the court?s orders. critical information that the Committee needs to complete its
work will not legally be available by the Committee?s original April 9 deadline.

For example, while the Committee has heard from some witnesses. there are others who have and will
testify at depositions. which by court order the Committee will not have access to before the original

 

As you may be aware. Mr. Dowd had spoken with the Chairman weeks ago and offered to provide the Commince
with discovery in the criminal case, but at the request ofthe Circuit Attorney. thejudge ordered that no third parties.
including this Committee. may obtain discovery materials from the case. including information derived from the
Circuit Attorney's investigation and exculpatory evidence (evidence showing the Governor is innocent).

alo-~- u. .. -. .. 

Page 12 of 25

. April 9 deadline. The Committee deserves to see those accounts, many of which show that accusations
made against the Governor are false. The Committee also deserves to see all of the discovery material
assembled by the Circuit Attorney herself, some of which shows that the Governor is innocent. By court
order, this information may not be shared with the Committee until alter the trial.

In order to get that key information, the Committee ought to give itself a brief extension. through just
a?er the criminal trial has concluded. The Circuit Court trial will begin on May 14 and is expected to last
only two or three days. A brief extension of five weeks past the Committee?s deadline will give the
Committee all the information and evidence it cannot currently obtain.

Although the Governor asked the Court for a trial date of April 3?ln part so that the trial would be
completed before the Committee?s report was due?the Court set trial for shortly a?er the Committee?s
current due date. Fortunately, the Resolution authorizing the Committee and its work allows it to extend
its deadline and permits such an extension by simple majority vote of the Committee. In a matter of such
weight and seriousness, surely all of us?and the people of Missouri?will agree that completing a full,
thorough, and accurate report is more important than sticking to an arbitrary schedule. particularly when
the extension need only be for a few weeks.

The Committee Chairman has stated that the ?committee's job is to investigate the underlying facts and
report back to the General Assembly.? A brief extension will enable the Committee to do just that:
conduct a thorough, complete, fair investigation of all the underlying facts. 0n the other hand, absent a
brief extension, the Committee:

- Will not have the benefit of the discovery in the pending case, which includes information that
exonerates Governor Greitens.

- Will not have the bene?t of the depositions taken in the pending case, which include cross-
examlnations and testimony of witnesses, some who have testified before the committee and
others who have not.

- Will not have the benefit of testimony and evidence elicited at trial.
- Will not have the testimony of the Governor.

- Will disseminate incomplete, false and misleading information that will cause damage to entirely
innocent people, some ofwhom are families and children.

- Will cause pretrial publicity that interferes with the fairness and due process of the Circuit
Court trial and unduly in?uences the jury pool.

- Will cause disruption of the legislative session and conthsion among legislators who will be
justi?ably perplexed as to what, if any, action they should take based on an incomplete and
inaccurate report.

Based on all of the above, we see no compelling reason not to provide a brief extension of this
Committee?: work. Over 36 months have passed since the incidents being investigated by this Committee
allegedly took place. Surely the committee can spare six additional weeks to get a full and complete
accounting of what actually occurred. The matters being investigated by the Committee are not urgent,
nor, for that matter, are they matters directly related to the continued functioning of state government.

Page 13 of 25

 - .. .. .. .. .. . . - .. .. -.

During'the course of this investigation, the Governor has continued to govern, just as he will during the
five additional weeks the committee ought to take to complete its work.

Please take an additional five weeks to do a complete and thorough review of all of the underlying facts
and the evidence as shown at trial in order to write a full. fair. complete, and truthful report. We strongly .
believe that a rushed, incomplete. inaccurate report will not serve the Committee, the House, or the people
of Missouri well. Speed is not of the essence here; accuracy is.

We respectfully request the Committee approve this brief extension to provide the public and your fellow
lawmakers with a complete and accurate report that preserves the constitutional rights of every person
involved and does not unduly interfere with the Governor's right to a fair trial by an untainted jury. There
is no compelling reason not to allow yourselves more time to do this work right'and we respectfully
submit that doing so would be in the interest of the Committee, the House of Representatives. and the
people of Missouri.

Respectfully submitted,
Edward L, Dowd Ls! Lucinda Luetkemeyer
Edward L. Dowd Lucinda Luetkemeyer
Dowd Bennett. LLP Counsel to the Governor
7733 Blvd., Ste I900 . Office of the Governor of Missouri
St. Louis. MO 63105 
(314) 889-7301
edowd@dowdbennett.com

Ross Gather (of counsel)
Shipman Goodwin 
1875 Street, N.W.
Washington. D.C. 20006
(202) 469-7798
rgarber@goodwin.com
Counsel on behalf of Erie Greitens Counsel on behalf of the Of?ce of the Governor of Missouri

cc: Speaker Todd Richardson

. .u . . mu.??o 

Page 14 of 25

Jay Barnes

Ftom: Ed Dowd <edowd?dowdbennettcom>

Sent: Monday. April 09, 2018 10:13 AM

To: Jay Barnes; Don Phillips: Kevin Austin; Shawn Rhoads; Jeanie Lauer; Gina Mitten; Tommie
Piersonjn Todd Richardson

Attachments: 2018.04.08 Defendant?s Motion to Compel Immediate Production of all Exculpatory
Informationpdf; 2018.04.09 Letter to Chairman and Committee sending 4.8.18 Motion
to Compei.pdf

For your information and review. Thank you for your considerationPage 15 of 25

u- n? .- un? 

Edward Dowd. Jr. Direct Dial: (314) 889.7301 Emall: 
April 9, 2019

Chairman Jay Barnes

iay.bames@house.mo.gov

Dear Chairman Barnes:
Attached is a Motion to Compel we ?led on behalf of Mr. Greitens on April 8, 2018.

As you will see, there are several important developments revealed in the deposition of the
alleged victim.

I. The alleged victim admitted some of her memory of certain evidence may have been
from dreams instead of reality, and she had earlier informed the Circuit Attorney's Of?ce of her
dream or visions;

2. The alleged victim described that her contact with Eric was consensual and that she was a
very willing participant; and

3. The Circuit Attorney?s Of?ce videotaped an interview of the alleged victim but is now
claiming that the video is lost or the equipment malfunctioned. These are matters that were not
disclosed to the defense until her deposition on Friday, April 6.

We would appreciate it if you would review this important information. Thank you for your
assistance with this matter.

Sincerely yours,
{1 

Edward L. Dowd, Jr.

ELD:djs
cc: Vice Chairman Don Phillips don. hilli housem . ov
Representative Kevin Austin kevin.austin use.mo. ov

Representative Shawn Rhoads shawn.rhoads@house.mo.gov
Representative Jeanie Lauer ieanie.lauer?iousemdgov

Representative Gina Mitten gina.mitten@house.mo.gov
Representative Tommie Pierson, Jr. tommie.piersoni?housemo.gov
Speaker Todd Richardson 

Page 16 of 25

IN THE CIRCUIT COURT FOR THE
TWENTY-SECOND JUDICIAL CIRCUIT

CITY OF ST. LOUIS
STATE OF MISSOURI
STATE OF MISSOURI. 

Plaintiff, 
Cause No. 
v. 

ERIC GREITENS, 

Defendant. 

MOTION TO COMPEL IMMEDIATE
PRODUCTION OF ALL EXCULPATORY INFORMATION

 

Defendant Eric Greitens requests a court order compelling the Circuit Attorney to
immediately produce all exculpatory information in her possession. Recent deposition testimony
has continued that information that supports the Defendant?s innocence has been withheld from
him as well as from the Grand Jury and the House Committee reviewing this matter.

Background on Recent Events

Counsel for the Defendant questioned K.S. under oath on Friday, April 6, 2018. This
testimony provided information establishing that the Circuit Attorney lacks evidence to prove the
offense. However, it also established that the Circuit Attorney has withheld evidence from the
defense. Similarly, the House Committee looking into these matters has been deprived of
essential information. Of note, the sworn testimony established that K.S. never saw a
photograph, has no evidence of transmission of any image, and that any assertion by KS. that
she saw a phone on the day in question was based on a dream or vision. In addition, the Circuit

Attorney videotaped an interview of witness KS. but now claims that this tape (which Defendant

.. Page 17 of 25

believes would further provide proof of his innocence) does not exist due to a claimed
malfunction. The loss or destruction of such key evidence bears scrutiny.

A. Undisclosed Dreams or Visions

The prosecution admits it does not have any photograph that forms the basis of the
charges. Nor has the prosecution provided any evidence that KS. ever saw such a photograph.
Nor has evidence of any transmission been provided. Nor does K.S. recall seeing a telephone 0r
camera. When K.S. was asked by defense counsel, ?Did you ever see him in possession of a
camera or phone?" she answered: ?Not to my knowledge. I didn't see him with it." The
question was then asked: ?And as you sit here now, you cannot state under oath that you ever
saw him in possession of a camera - with a camera or a phone?? and K.S. replied, ?Correct."
And then, ?And you can't say you saw it on his person, you candown in
the kitchen, take it from the kitchen, or put it down anywhere in the basement. Those are all
correct statements, are they not?? K.S. answered. ?Yes. i cannot say."

Apparently recognizing the dif?culty this testimony presented for the charges, the
Assistant Circuit Attorney later asked K.S. ?did you see what you believed to be a phone?" K.S.
answered: .. i haven't talked about it because I don?t know if it?s because i?m remembering
it through a dream or I - I?m not sure, but yes, I feel like I saw it after that happened, but I
haven't Spoken about it because of that." She later re-con?rmed, however. that she could not
testify under oath that she saw a phone.

A witness who is "remembering it through a dream" is not a witness upon which a
prosecution can be based. K.S. testified that she had informed the Circuit Attorney that her
recollections may well be from a dream or vision, but the Circuit Attorney did not turn that

information over to the defendant. It was not until a?er hours of testimony that K.S. revealed

Page 18 of 25

she was having a dream or vision about what happened. Nor did K.S. inform the Missouri House
Committee looking into these matters of this key fact. These dreams and visions may well
extend to multiple other aspects of recollection of these three-year-old events. For the
Circuit Attorney to have been told by K.S. about these dreams and visions and to have not
disclosed it to the defense is a violation of m.

B. Witness K.S. Provides Other Undisclosed Evidence That is Exculpatory

There are also differences between the testimony KS. gave in her deposition versus what
she said to the Grand Jury. On key points, KS. admitted she had not disclosed to the Grand Jury
or the House Committee important facts. KS. also acknowledged that the recordings made by
her ex-husband contained what she describes as lies. These differences make it critically
important that the defense obtain accurate information about what K.S. has said on different
dates about the events in question.

By way of example, apparently a theory of the Circuit Attorney is that K.S. would not
consent to creation of images involving partial nudity. But in an event never previously
disclosed to the Grand Jury or House Committee, K.S. now admits that she
transmitted images via Facetirne of herself to the Defendant while she was in a state of partial
nudity. In a similar manner, K.S. acknowledged that for months after the alleged "invasion of
privacy," K.S. continued to see the defendant willingly. One of those events took place that very
same afternoon on March 21, 2015, and another just days later. Other events took place weeks
and months later, again suggesting that K.S. did not view the Defendant as having violated her
privacy rights back in March. K.S. acknowledged that she never viewed anything that happened

as a criminal matter. agreeing that the "last thing on [her] mind" even in January of 201 8 was

Page potential criminal prosecution. Moreover, key information tending to prove innocence was not
provided to the Grand Jury or House Committee.

The facts disclosed in the deposition establish that this was a months-long relationship
and that K.S. was a co-equal participant; any current testimony to the contrary appears to be the
product of dreams or visions that make it dif?cult to remember what happened, the passage of
time after the defendant decided to terminate the relationship, or the continuous interviews on
this subject. The defense therefore requests a report of any statement by K.S. to the government
that would tend to be exculpatory, including in the sense of showing that conduct after
March 2  2015 was unlike a person who was the victim of an invasion of privacy. These
multiple statements by this witness are key to the defense and have not been provided in any
detail. Therefore, full memoranda of what was said by K.S. at all interviews should be provided.

C. The Circuit Attorney's Missing Tape of KS. Interview

Given the passage of time and inconsistencies between what K.S. says on different
occasions, it is essential that the Defendant have c0pies of prior statements of witness KS.
One of these prior statements was given to the Circuit Attorney months ago. On Friday, K.S.
testi?ed that the Circuit Attorney and Mr. Tisaby had a video camera at this key interview. They
told KS. and her attorney that the interview was being videotaped. The camera was set up by
Mr. Tisaby. As far as K.S. was aware, the interview was videotaped. This videotape is essential
to the defense of the case because it likely would con?rm even more inconsistencies in the
evidence or corroborate important exculpatory details. Already the evidence contains different
statements by K.S. to her husband on recordings; to the Grand Jury; what KHS testi?ed

in her deposition that she said to the House Committee; and in her deposition. A videotape of

 

 

. .. -..- 

Page 20 of 25

an interview would be particularly powerful evidence for the Defendant. Its production is
essential.

Apparently, the Circuit Attorney claims that the videotape machine did not work. If
proper investigation technique was followed, the tape machine would have been checked before
the interview started, the tape would have been marked as involving an interview of RS. on the
date at issue, and the tape would be preserved. Yet no tape has been provided. At a minimum, a
written a report should exist that described the attempted taping and why it failed. No report has
been provided. Nor has any other explanation been given for the malfunction. This tape is
essential to the defense, both for the substance of what was said and to con?rm what was told to
the prosecutors. Defendant believes that if the St. Louis Police Department - and not an
unlicensed private investigator - conducted this investigation this valuable evidence for the
defense would not have been lost or destroyed.

Background on Discovery Issues in this Case

Over a month ago, at the March 6, 2018 court hearing in which The Circuit Attorney
participated. the Circuit Attorney?s Office stated, ?the State will absolutely turn over anything
that is whether or not it?s in a report, and it will be put in writing and in a report." 3648
Transcript, p. 15. Similarly, the Circuit Attorney?s Of?ce had promised ?anything potentially
exculpatory we will absolutely turn it over within 48 hours of getting it." 3-6-18 Transcript, p.
15-16.

The Court is aware of some of the dif?culties defense counsel has had trying to obtain
accurate information as to what K.S. has said in prior statements made to the Circuit Attorney.
The claim that there are no notes from the January 29, 2018, interview of K.S. conducted by Mr.

Tisaby and The Circuit Attorney is well documented in defense counsel?s motion to compel Fage 21 of 25

second deposition of Mr. Tisaby. After Mr. Tisaby had been grilled as to how he could have
conducted a two-hour interview without taking a single note. suddenly the following day the
Circuit Attorney produced notes she had from that interview. Notations related to what K.S. said
regarding the events of March 21 and the days following are minimal to say the least.
Additionally, K.S. had been interviewed on January 24, 2018. However, no one other than The
Circuit Attorney participated in that interview. While defense counsel has notes of The Circuit
Attorney from that interview, as discussed below, the exculpatory facts were not referenced
within the notes. Consequently, until deposition last Friday, signi?cant exculpatory
information had not previously been revealed, as promised to the Court and to defense counsel.

Time and effort was wasted in the deposition of K.S. obtaining information that the
Circuit Attorney chose not to disclose to defense counsel or the grand jury before the deposition.
Defense counsel raised the concerns about not getting exculpatory information more than a
month ago. The Circuit Attorney?s Of?ce promised ?anything potentially exculpatory" would be
turned over. The failure to do so in such an important matter is inexcusable. Moreover, what
other exculpatory information may also be available is still unknown. K.S. was interviewed once
by only The Circuit Attorney, yet her notes have no exculpatory information included. The
second interview was videotaped. but the Circuit Attorney?s Of?ce claims the equipment did not
work. The Circuit Attorney?s Of?ce has acknowledged that exculpatory information must be
turned over whether written into a report or not. However, that did not happen in this case. With
The Circuit Attorney sitting there in the courtroom, her of?ce made clear they knew the rules:

will make sure if there are any things that are not contained
in the report. and I candidly can?t imagine anything that would fall

into that that hasn't been turned over, but should there be anything,
it's turned over in advance of the deposition."

. 

Page 22 of 25

3-6-18 Transcript, p. 17. When this statement was made, the Circuit Attorney knew at least

some of the information set out above.

Request for Relief

Defendant requests that the Court order the Circuit Attomey to produce all exculpatory

information in its possession, including any further statements by K.S. that her testimony may be

based on "dreams" or "visions"; any further statements by K.S. that negate or call into question

the essential elements of the case; and ?irther statements that suggest that K.S. did not view

herself as being a victim of an invasion of privacy a?er March of 201 5, and the video tape and

machine at issue (or any report related thereto). This request extends to all exculpatory

infomiation, whether documented in writing or retained only orally.

Dated: April 8, 2018

Respectfully submitted,

Down LLP

By: 1mm.?
James G. Martin, #33586
James F. Bennett, #46826
Edward L. Dowd, #28785
Michelle Nasser, #68952

7733 Blvd.. Suite 1900
St. Louis, MO 63105

Phone: (314) 889-7300

Fax: (314) 863-2111
jmartin@dowdbennett.com
jbennett@dowdbennett.com
edowd@dowdbennett.com
mnasser@dowdbennett.com

John F. Garvey, #35879
Carey Danis Lowe
8235 Suite 1100
St. Louis, MO 63105
Phone: (314) 725-7700
Fax: (314) 678-3401
jgarvey@careydanis.com

Page 23 of 25

- cu 

 



N. Scott Rosenblum, #33390
Rosenblum Schwartz Fry
120 S. Central Ave., Suite 130
Clayton, MO 63105

Phone: (314) 862-4332



Attorneysfor Defendant

 

u. 
. . .

Page 24 of 25

CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE
I

I hereby certify that the foregoing was ?led electronically with the Clerk of the Court to

 

be served by operation of the Court?s electronic ?ling system upon the City of St. Louis Circuit

Attorney?s Of?ce this 8th day of April 2018.

Isl James G. Martin

 

 

 

Page 25 of 25

 

Jay Barnes

From:

Sent:

To:

Subject:
Attachments:

Mr. Barnes,

Scott Simpson <scott@knightsimpson.com>

Monday, April 09, 2018 8:46 PM
Jay Barnes

RE: Subpoena for Testimony March 12

Statement - Greitens 4-9-18pdf

i have read the motion that Gov. Greitens team filed in response to her deposition testimony. Piease be advised, the
motion mischaracterizes my client?s testimony. I am happy to provide any supplemental information your committee

might find helpful.

I have attached statement calling for the release of my client's complete deposition transcript.

Thank you,
Scott Simpson

Scott Simpson

_,Attorney at Law

Knight Simpson

423 Jackson Street

Saint Charles, MO 63301

Phone: 636?94 7-7412

Fax: 636?947-7505

Email: 


r'H'n'c??ik'ferl'fi fol) 

This transmission and any attached ?les are privileged, confidential or otherwise the exclusive property
ol'the intended recipient or Knight :52 Simpson. lt'you are not the. intended recipient, any disclosure,
copying, distribution or use of any ofthe information contained in or attached to this transmission is
strictly prohibited. ?you have received this transmission in error, please contact us immediately by e?
mail (scott?ilmightsimpson.com) or telephone (636-947-7412 and destroy the original
transmission and its attachments. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do
?ol relate to the official business of Knight Simpson shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed

it.

 
 

.3

      
 

1/ 


   

r?L"

.WV

    

Joshua G. Knight

. 'KnightErSimpson Scott Simpson

Attorneys at Law

(@Attorneys at ow . FC Ryan 0
Paralegal

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

April 9, 2018

Media Contact: Scott Simpson (636) 947-7412
Missouri Gov. Greitens

Navy Seals have a code that directs its members to take responsibility for their actions
and the actions of their teammates. With that code in mind, it is time for Gov. Eric Greitens to
take responsibility for his actions as well as the actions of his team which is made up of the best
lawyers other people?s money can buy. Gov. Greitens has admitted to my client, on multiple
occasions that he took her photograph, without her consent, and threatened to release it if she
ever told anyone about their relationship. Instead of taking responsibility for his actions, Gov.
Greitens has decided to let his team attack my client by mischaracterizing her deposition
testimony.

In an effort to preserve her privacy and the privacy of her children, my client has refused
to comment on this case and her silence has allowed a number of false and misleading statements
to go unanswered. However, the most recent attack on my client?s credibility cannot be ignored;
it is time to set the record straight. We will support a motion to release the complete transcript of
my client?s deposition, so long as her name and other identifying information is redacted. Gov. 
Greitens needs to take responsibility for his actions and be honest about the fact that he took my
client?s photograph without her consent.

The governor can continue to try this case in the media but at his trial the facts will speak

for themselves. My client has taken responsibility for her actions and it is time Gov. Greitens
accepts reSponsibility for his.

(W

423 Jackson Street Phone: 636-947-7412
Saint Charles, MO 63301 Fax: 636-947-7505

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


1
2
3
4
5
6 SPECIAL INVESTIGATIVE COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT
7 HEARING
8 us. -
9 MARCH 7th. 2018
mala?sus Phone: 1.000.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334
HEANNG 
F3903
1 APPEARANCES
2 Mr. Jay Barnes. Chairman
3 Mr. Alex Curchin. Senior Counsel/Legislative Director
4 Representative Don Phillips
5 Representative Jeanie Lauer
6 Representative Kevin Austin
7 Representative Gina Mitten
8 Representative Shawn Rhoads
9 Representative Tommie Pierson. Jr.
10
11
Also present:
12
Ms. Alix Hallen
13 Mr. Bryan D. Scheiderer
14
The Court Reporter:
15
MS. LISA BALLALATAK, CCR
16 Kansas CSR No. 1610
Missouri CCR No. 1336
17 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
2511 Broadway Bluffs, Suite 201
18 Columbia. Missouri 65201
Phone: (573) 449-0561
Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334

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P3902
1 INDEX OF EXAMINATION
2.
3 Ms - 
4 Examination by Mr. Barnes 5
5 Examination Phillips 61
6 Examination byIMs. Mitten 66
7 Examination by Ms. Lauer 79
3 Examination by Mr. Austin 94
9 Examination by Mr. Rhoads 109
10 Examination by Mr. Tommie Pierson, Jr. 118
11 Re-examinetion by Mr. Barnes 123
12
13 INDEX OF EXHIBITS
14 EXHIBITS:
15 Exhibit No. 1 {Audio Recording Transcript) 107
16
17 Reporter?s Note: Exhibit 1 was retained by the panelALARBIIHGKHONSERVEES
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P3934
1 {The hearing commenced at 8:02 a.m.l
2 MR. BARNES: I call to order this meeting
3 of the House special committee on investigative
4 oversight.
5 Mr. Secretary. please call the role.
6 MR. CURCHIN: Chairman Barnes.
7 MR. BARNES: Here.
8 MR. CURCHIN: Representative Phillips.
9 MR. PHILLIPS: Here.
10 MR. CURCHIN: Representative Lauer.
11 MS. LAUER: Here.
12 MR. CURCHIN: Representative Austin.
13 MR. AUSTIN: Here.
14 MR. CURCHIN: Representative Mitten.
15 MS. MITTEN: Here.
16 MR. CURCHIN: Representative Rhoads.
11 MR. RHOADS: Here.
18 MR. CURCHIN: Representative Pierson.
19 MR. PIERSON: Here.
20 MR. BARNES: All here and accounted ?or.
21 Seven present. so everyone is here. So everyone
22 knows that in order to -- state your questions
23 clearly and loudly enough.
24 Good morning. Thank you for being here.
25 While Mr. Simpson is getting coffee, have
ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
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1 you ever given testimony before?
2 I don?t know if I can say.
3 HR. BARNES: Okay. And that?s a fair
4 question.
5 This is going to be a conversation, and if
6 there's any question that we that you don't
I understand the question, it's important to just say,
3 Stop, I don?t understand what you're asking. If you
9 can't hear us, stop us. If you need to stop for any
10 reason, feel free to stop and use the restroom,
11 whatever for whatever purpose.
12 Now that Mr. Simpson is back, we're going
13 to administer the oath.
14 
15 being first duly sworn, was examined and testified as
16 follows:
17 EXAMINATION
13 BY MR. BARNES:
19 Q. Can you state your name.
20 A- 
21 Q. And, ma'am, how long have you known 
22 Eric Greitens? 
23 A. Since, like, 2013.
24 Q. What were the circumstances in which you
25 came to know Eric Greitens?

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1 it was pretty typical.
2 Q. when did -- at what point in time did you
3 see him socially outside of the context of your
4 workplace?
5 A. That wasn't until March of 2015.
6 Q. And can you describe how that came about?
1 A. So I hadn't seen him for about a six?month
8 period, which was pretty abnormal, and I noticed it.
9 The time before he came in -- so that would have
10 been the summer of 2014, I knew that his wife was
11 having a baby soon, and I had just gotten back from
12 a vacation with my whole family, and I mentioned
13 something about my husband not letting me go to the
14 without him being with me -- and he didn't
15 exercise, just to kind of -- I can't remember how
16 the conversation went, but I know that in that
17 conversation that happened in August 
18 Q. Do you mean your husband didn?t exercise?
19 A. He didn't right. Exactly. My husband.
20 Eric did. He asked about the trip, and I said, They
21 had this really cool gym, but going to the was a
22 little annoying at times because my husband refused
23 to let me go by myself, and he would sit there,
24 like, at the machine, the equipment next to me just
25 to watch me and make sure nobody was watching me

 

 

 

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1 A. He came into the salon for a haircut.
2 Q. Okay. So that was 2013. How was your
3 relationship how long did it go? How did it
4 start? Can you describe as a client what it was
5 like?
6 A. It just started where he I believe he
7 came in to a couple of my coworkers beforehand, but
8 once he came to me, he became a regular client of
9 mine. And I don't know. I saw him pretty
10 regularly, unless he was traveling. Seemed pretty
ll typical, except for I would say mean, I had conversed with most of my clients pretty
13 often, but we got to know each other pretty well,
14 and I thought he was great. I thought he was this
15 perfect guy. I probably knew too much about what he
16 had maybe done in the past, as far as -- I knew I
17 knew that he was an author, I knew he was a
13 motivational speaker, I knew he was a Navy Seal, I
19 knew he had volunteered at the Mother Teresa House,
20 I knew that he I mean, he -- to I mean I
21 guess he I don't want to say that he was speaking
22 highly of himself, but he found a way to tell me
23 these things, and so I thought he was just
24 wonderful.
25 Yeah, other than that I mean, I think
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Pages
1 sort of thing. And I don't know that I went into
2 that detail with him. I just said, Oh, yeah, it was
3 really cool, except for I had my my husband, who
4 didn't really exercise, kind of watching me.
5 And that was the first time that I felt
6 like maybe the other times where he had boasted
7 about himself a little bit he had brought me
8 books -- signed books in the past that I didn't ask
9 for. He would, like, stop in after his visit. So
10 maybe had flirted a little bit here and there, but
11 that was the first time that summer. After that
12 conversation, he was like, Tell me about your
13 husband. I mean, what does he look like? I picture
14 him being this, like you know, very confident,
15 tall, you know, handsome man. And I was like, No,
16 my husband is an artist. He's not a big guy,
17 he?s -- he's an artist. He's an emotional guy 
18 you know, it's -- and then -- it just felt a little
19 bit, like -- a little flirty.
20 And so after that day I didnthat was in the summer/fall of --
23 A. Summer of 2014.
24 Q. -- of 2014?
25 A. Yes. And then I didn't see him at all 
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1 I had heard that following February that he was

2 running for office. And then in March, he came in.

3 And so this would have been the very beginning of 

4 March, maybe birthday is March 7th, and

5 I know it was right around then. a

6 9. He came in for an appointment? 

7 A. He came in for an appointment. And that

8 week prior to, my husband and I had just separated,

9 and he had just moved into his brother?s house -- or 
10 was sleeping at his brother's house at that time. a
11 So when I saw Eric was coming in that time, I was 5
12 super nervous because he was one of -- you know, 
13 really, my only client that I had somewhat of a 
14 crush on and thought he was this great guy, and so I
15 just felt kind of nervous having him come in, and
16 because I thought that maybe he didn't come in to
17 see me after that time because he felt bad flirting
18 with me, because he was having a baby soon.

19 So 
20 Q. So what happened, like, March at that
21 appointment in early March?
22 A. 50 he came in and went to go give me a
23 hug, it's great to see you, and he noticed I
24 was visibly shaking. So this is the morning he
25 was my first client. And he was like, Oh, you seem
ALARBIIHGNHONSERW115
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Pagan

1 and -- describing a conversation I had with one of

2 my professors, and I noticed I could feel his

3 hand on my leg. And at first I just ignored it,

4 thinking, like, This really he's not really 

5 and then he kept doing that and staring at me while

6 I was telling him the story. So I just kept

I continuing the story, and then he, like, moved his

8 hand all the way up to my crotch, at which point I

9 stepped back and was like, What are you doing? And
10 he just laid back and kind of looked up at me like,

11 I don't know, and didn't say anything.

12 So I just walked back to my chair, and he i

13 followed me back there. And I was blow drying, not a

14 saying anything at first, I just looked at him and

15 said, Is that why you didn't come in for all of this

16 time? And he just said, I don't knowcoworker right next to a

18 me, so we didn't discuss what had just happened, why a

19 he felt like that. I went to go walk him up to the 

20 front, and he asked or let me show you

21 this thing over here -- he wanted to talk to me

22 about it, and I just said, No. You're married and

23 I'm married. Because I didn't tell him I had just

24 separated. I didn?t mention my husband at all. And

25 he said, I know -- like, I know, but whatever --
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1 kind of shaky. Did you exercise? Did you not eat?
2 And I was like, Oh, yeah, no, I didn't which was
3 not the case: I was just super nervous. And he was
4 like, Okay, well I'll be right back. And literally
5 just took out the door -- or ran out the door and
6 went across the street to Straub's and came back,
7 and he had, like, a protein shake and a banana and
3 chocolate and a water. He's like, - just sit
9 down and talk to me before you start the
10 appointment. I want you to be -- you know, feel
11 good. And so we sat there and talked for a few
12 minutes before I started his appointment and just
13 filled him in I had started school again,?and I
14 had started CrossE?it. And he had mentioned that he
15 was running for office.
16 So that was about it. And then once we
17 sat down and I was cutting his hair, it was really
18 obvious that he was flirting with me, to me. 
19 you look incredible. You look better than you've
20 ever looked. You're glowing today. I mean, this is
21 just crazy. Something is going on with you. You
22 just look beautiful. And so I was shampooing his
23 hair -- this was at the end of his appointment. and
24 I had just finished, but he was still laying back in
25 the shampoo bowl, and I was standing next to him

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Page12
1 I have these feeling -- I don't know. There was
2 just so much unspoken. So I just walked him up to
3 the front, he left.
4 Later on that day, he shows up dressed in
5 his suit and everything, and he had a book for me 
6 his newest book and left it with the girls at the
front because I had a client. And later on -- I
8 believe it was that night, I received an e-mail from
9 him, which the only reason why he had my e-mail
10 was because maybe a year, year and a half prior to,
11 he had asked me for my e-mail so he could send me
12 book suggestions -- because that's the other thing
13 we talked about a lot was what we were reading. But
14 he never used it, he never e-mailed me, so I had
15 totally forgotten he had even had it.
16 So that night be e?mailed me with: Hey,
1? I great to see you as always, I dropped off a
18 book for you, let me know that you got it. Also, is
19 there a better way to reach you because sometimes
20 it's hard to book an appointment with you. To which
21 I thought about it before I wrote him back what I
22 was going to write, because I knew -- he doesn't
23 know that I'm newly separated. He also doesn't know
24 my husband is extremely controlling. He looks
25 through everything of mine. My phone, my Facebook,
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HEAMNGIIZQOW
Pagata
1 my everything he had access to, and he was obviously
2 extremely -- paying attention to everything at this
3 point, too, so 
4 So I e-mailed him back with, Great to see
5 you, too, but you here is my cell phone number 
6 oh, because I also didn't want to say, well, you
I can't have my cell phone number, because I didn't
8 want him to think I'm extremely angry at him,
9 because I was at least curious. Did he have the
10 same feelings for me? Was he going through
11 something similar with his wife? Why did he feel
12 like he could do that? Because he didn't know I was
13 separated. So, anyway so I was at least curious.
14 I didn't want to talk to him, but I did want him to
15 call me. So I said, Well, here is my cell phone
16 number: however, the best way to reach me is to
17 still go through the salon, they'll let me know if
18 you can't get an appointment Okay. So that is approximately March 7th?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Okay. when was your next contact with him
23 after that?
24 A. So he called my cell phone that a phone
25 call I missed because it was birthday. I
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1 believe it was the following Friday?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Okay. And you were having this
4 conversation in code the following Friday? 
5 A. Correct. Yeah, I went -- 
6 Q. So that would be approximately it?s
7 around March 14th or so -- March 13th would have
3 been a Friday.
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Okay.
11 A. Okay. So he asked where I was, and I said
12 I was at a restaurant in the Central West End -- a
13 Mexican restaurant there. And he said, Well, can
14 you meet me in a few minutes in the alleyway behind
15 Starbucks, because I think I have a solution to your
16 friend's problem. So I said, Okay. And I went over
11 to kind of where he was talking about behind the
18 Starbucks, and I was, like, shaking, because I was
19 nervous to even be talking to him like this. And he
20 kind of hugged me and just said, Listen, calm down,
21 it's not it'll be okay. I have an idea of, you
22 know, of a time when we can talk about this openly.
23 Next weekend, my wife is going out of town, you can
24 come over to my house, we can discuss these things,
25 because I don?t have you know, I have to get back

 

 

 

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Puget!
1 knew it had to be him because it was a D.C. number,
2 and the only other person I knew that had a D.C.
3 number was my friend and it would have
4 showed up as her name. So so I called him that
5 following Friday so that would have been most
6 likely on a Sunday. And then that following Friday,
7 I called him back, and we were trying to have a
8 conversation in code of sorts of like, I'm really 
9 my friend is really curious she's in a situation.
10 She was really curious what happened and why,
11 because this person -- you know, it was kind of in
12 code. The way he was talking, I could tell he was
13 most likely at his house because he wasn't really
14 talking. And -- so he said, Actually -- hey, can
15 you meet me outside of Starbucks in an alley -- ch.
16 because he asked me where I was, and I said I was
17 in the Central West End with some of my friends
18 at --
19 Q. Hold on. Let me slow you down, because
20 I'm confused by the timeline.
21 A. Sure.
22 Q. So you missed a call from him on -
23 - birthday?
24 A. Right. Yes.
25 Q. Okay. And then you called him -- I

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Page16
1 to my house in a minute. And I said, Well, I don?t
2 know if I can do that. I knew my husband's
3 birthday was that following Friday. I also knew 
4 I don't know how this is going to go.
5 Really quick, just to back up, when Eric
6 called and I saw that missed number, I saved it
7 under my I saved his number under my friend
8 name, worried that if he because anytime
9 my husband would see a number that he didn?t
10 recognize, he would either call it or text it, just
11 to find out who is contacting my wife. So,
12 meanwhile, during that week, he had done what I
13 thought he would do, which was call that number, and
14 he told me -- he made up a story about how he had to
15 call -- which he never called - -- I had
16 to call - about something, but I called the
1? number that was on there, and Eric Greitens's
18 voicemail picked up, so what is going on with this
19 guy? So I also didn't know what was going to happen
20 with that with my husband and how I would feel about
21 meeting him the next week, so we left it at, I will
22 call you on Friday I told him I will call him on
23 Friday when I?m leaving work and let you know if I
24 feel comfortable coming over to talk about this. He
25 said, Fine.
ALARIS 
wunmda?ius Phone:taum2803376 chaw??d4n334

 

 

 

 

 

HEAHNGIEWQNB
Puget?
1 So that following Friday --
2 Q. So this would be March 20th?
3 A. Twentieth. And that is -- that was I
4 . actual birthday. I called him from my
5 salon and I said, I don't feel comfortable coming to
6 your house, can you please meet me at Starbucks or 
7 Coffee Cartel, something because I had told him I i
8 don't have any time other than before work on 
9 Saturday, I come could by that week before. He
10 asked if I could come by that weekend, and I said
11 that would be the time.
12 So, anyways, I said, Can we please just
13 meet at Coffee Cartel or Starbucks. And he said,
14 No, - I cannot be seen in public with you. I?m
15 running for office. People are going to be out to
16 get me, they cannot see me with you. And I said,
1? What do they know we're talking about? We can just
18 meet in that room -- Coffee Cartel has a back room.
19 No. I cannot meet you in public. I'm telling
20 you -- especially in the Central West End, people
21 will being looking. And I know I said, Well, I?m
22 not even going to have too much time. And he said,
23 well, I live right by there, so if you come to my
24 house, if you come in through the back door, nobody
25 will see you, we can talk, you can get back to work,

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1 Q. With his finger over his mouth?
2 A. With his finger over his mouth.
3 And so I just kind of stood there. And he
4 grabbed my purse and my keys out of my hand and set
5 them at there was a countertop kind of right to
6 his right, and he sat this down. And I watched as
7 he went through my purse, taking stuff out and
8 looking through my purse. And he, you know, looked
9 at me a couple of times, basically telling me don't
10 say anything. He searches through my purse, comes
11 over to me and pets me down, like, head to toe I
12 guess to see if I was wearing a wire. And then he
13 went back outside, checked to see if anybody had
14 seen me come in or whatever, and comes back inside.
15 And at this point I?m like, Oh, my gosh. I guess
16 this is a Navy Seal thing, maybe this is my that
1? he knows my husband -- because I had told him on 
18 that Friday night, Just so you know, my husband saw 
19 that you called, and he is extremely controlling
20 over stuff like this. I you know? So I thought,
21 well, maybe he's doing this because he's worried my
22 husband I don't know.
23 So I was shaking, I was so nervous. And
24 he said, - it's okay, calm down. How much time
25 do you have? I said, I only have, like, 45 minutes.

 

 

 



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it'll be fine.
2 So he eased my mind enough that I said --
3 and I know during that conversation that we had on
4 that Friday night -- because I said, No, I'm not
5 comfortable being in your house I have never
6 cheated on my husband at all. That was not my
I intention. I'm not going to come to your house I
8 feel uncomfortable. And he saidcan't meet you in public. Just come to my
10 house and we can still just talk. I said, okay.
11 So that next morning, I came to his house
12 and came in through the back door --
13 Q. What time was it?
14 A. Approximately, like, ?:00 a.m. on that
15 Saturday.
16 Q. And this was before you had go to work?
17 A. Yeahwork by 7:45,
18 7:50.
19 Q. Okay.
20 A. So I came in through the back door, and he
21 was waiting right there in the kitchen. And he was 
22 waiting and did this (indicatingwalking upcan you describe --
25 A. Oh. Like making a shush motion.
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PageZO
1 And he said, Can you come back later? What time do
2 you get off work? And I said, No, I can't. I get
3 off at four, but I have to go back and get my
4 kids because my husband was staying at his
5 brothers, but my kids didn't go there. I was
6 responsible for them, if I wasn't working.
7 So, anyways, he said, Well, okay, I have
8 this idea. And I thought about you so much, and I
9 have this idea, and it's to make you feel good. I
10 feel like you haven't been treated good in so long.
11 And I said, Well, I want to talk to you. I want to
12 know what is going on in your relationship. You
13 don't even know what's going on in mine. And he
14 said, I know, but we don't have a whole lot
15 of time. Have you exercised today? It was like he
16 was on a mission, sort of, like this kind of high
17 energy it was kind of high energy. And I said,
18 No, I haven't exercised. And he said, Will you let
19 me take you through an exercise like, through a
20 workout? I just have this idea. It's going to make
21 you feel so good and -- for whatever reason, I
22 trusted him, thought this is okay, this is --
23 somehow we're going to get to this -- I don't
24 know -- I?m going to leave here feeling more
25 clarified that, obviously, he has feeling for me.
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1 So he said. I have these clothes I want

2 you to put on. He had clothes sitting on his

3 countertop. I want you to go change into these --

4 take off all of your stuff take off everything

5 you?re wearing and put on these clothes. And I just

6 kind of looked at him like. oh. God. what do you

I have? And he said. Just trust me. just trust me.

8 I just want to make you feel good.

9 So I went he has. like. a little 
10 bathroom off his kitchen. and I went in there. 
ll changed into these clothes. The shirt was his 

12 like. a man?s white T-shirt that he had cut a slit
13 at the top. and the pants were men's pajama pants. 
14 So I came out of the bathroom. and he 2
15 said. Follow me downstairs. I?m going to show you
16 how to do a proper pull?up. So I did what he said.
17 And at this point. I was intrigued. definitely.
18 because I thought for sure he really has feelings
19 for me. He's definitely not going to take it to
20 any past any point that I'm uncomfortable with
21 because he respects me and you know? And maybe
22 this is going to be some sort of hot workout. We
23 talked about exercising quite a bit. And the fact
24 that he asked me to take off everything and put this
25 on. I thought. Oh. this is going to be some sort of
ALARJS 
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1 anything I want to do right now. but I'm intrigued
2 enough and I'm letting him and I trust him -- I

3 don't know. No. I'm not talking at all at this

4 point.

5 Q. Okay.

6 A. So I just spit it out. He does it and

he's like. You're not going to be a bad girl. are

8 you? Tries to do it again. to which I just let it

9 dribble out. because I didn't even want to kiss him.
10 So then he starts kissing me down my neck and he
11 starts kissing kind of like down to my chest. And
12 he takes the shirt and he rips it open. And then he
13 commented -- I have from having my kids.

14 and he commented -- that was the only time that he
15 broke character was he was like. what happened
16 here on your stomach? Other than that. it was

1? pretty much like he was in character. so -- anyways.
18 he starts kissing down my stomach and gets to my

19 pants. and he pulls down my pants. and then I hear
20 him kind of. like. step back -- take a step back and
21 I hear I can hear like a lindicating}. like a

22 cell phone like a picture. and I can see a flash
23 through the blindfold.

24 And -- so. anyways. he says. You're not
25 going to mention my name. Don't even mention my

 

 

 

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1 sexy workout and -- I don't know.
2 So I follow him downstairs. and he says.
3 Put your hands on the pull?up rings. And he had
4 this gauzed tape stuff. and he starts putting it on
5 my hands. And he was he kind of had this
6 controlling sort of again. it was almost as if he
1 had a like we were on a movie set. So he's got
8 this whole thing down of what he was going to say or
9 whatever. but he was super he was in a controlled
10 state. which at this point was intriguing to me.
11 And so he takes this gauze tape and he
12 puts it around my hands. and then he tells or
13 then he takes a blindfold and puts a blindfold on
14 me. And then he said. First. before we start a
15 workout. you have to be hydrated and puts water in
16 his mouth and tries to spit it in my mouth. at which
17 point I realized he's trying to kiss me. but I don't
13 even want to kiss him. So I spit it out. and he's
19 like oh. sorry.
20 Q. I'm sorry. Have you said anything to him?
21 A. I haven?t said anything.
22 Q. Okay.
23 A. I honestly was. like. in shock. because I
24 was I was intrigued. but I'm also how I'm
25 not even talking to him. I'm not we're not doing
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1 name to anybody at all. because if you do. I?m going
2 to take these pictures. and I'm going to put them
3 everywhere I can. They are going to be everywhere.
4 and then everyone will know what a little whore you
5 are.
6 So I just stood there. because I was like.
7 What the fuck? He doesn't have feelings for me. he
3 just wants to fuck me. So. anyways. I was
9 completely silent. I didn't say anything.
10 especially so I didn?t even -- my husband
11 traveled for a living. and I didn't even let him get
12 pictures of me. So I just stood there quietly. and
13 then he came up close to me and he said. Are you
14 going to say anything? Are you going to mention my
15 name? Of course. in my head. I was screaming. Enck.
16 all I want to do is tell people right now. I?m
17 dying. This is the most embarrassing thing that's
18 ever happened to me. So I just didn't answer at
19 all. and then he spanked me and said. Are you going
20 to mentiOn my name? And I said I just gritted
21 through my teeth and I said. No. And he's like.
22 Good -- now that?s a good girl and was. like. back
23 in his whatever you know. the thing that he
24 had in his mind. the thing he was going to do with
25 me. And he comes around front and starts kissing
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Pagezs
1 down my stomach again. And as soon as he got, like,
2 low on me, I just started freaking out and I started
3 ripping down my hands. I was like, Get me out of
4 here. I'm not ready for this. I don't want this.
5 I don?t want this. And then he stood up and started
6 helping me take down this tape. He was like, -
7 calm down, it's okay. It's okay. I was
8 like, No, I'm leaving, I'm leaving. And I start
9 walking out -- or going to go up the stairs. and he
10 grabs me and like like, in a bear hug and was
11 like, Shh, shh, it's okay, calm down, calm down,
12 and, like, lays me down on this ground in the
13 basement.
14 Q. Lays you down Not, like, hard, like -- I mean, I was
16 like a puddle of no. I just, like, was crying.
17 So he, like, hugged me, kind of like laid
18 down with me. So he was laying there and I was
19 laying next to him just crying like,
20 uncontrollably crying. And he was like, Shh, shh,
21 it's okay, it's okay. That's all he was really
22 saying at this point. And he was trying to, like,
23 fondle my body.
24 Q. Are you still crying at this point?
25 A. I'm bawling my eyes out. Yeah, so I'm

?Nnkahnsuu Phonezt?oozsoaa76 Fmo31?6443334
HENMNG 3190?
P39027
1 anybody else to go get them because then somebody is
2 going to know.
3 Q. When you were leaving and gathering your
4 stuff in your purse, you previously testified he
5 took everything out of your purse.
6 A. And then he put it back in.
Q. Were your keys in your purse when you
8 walked in the door?
9 A. No. I had them in my hand.
10 Q. Okay. And then you sat them down?
11 A. I didn?t. He took them from me. He took
12 my keys and he took my purse as he did that, and
13 then he sat them down, and then he just went through
14 my purse and he put that stuff back in there.
15 Q. okay. So you're back at work and you
16 (realize that you don't have your keys?
1? A. Right. So all day long I just pondered
18 what to do. At this point, obviously. I haven't
19 told anybody. I just kind of made it through work
20 that day and decided just made the ultimate
21 decision because he never brought them back up
22 there -- because that's what I thought, maybe he'll
23 find some sort of excuse to bring an envelope to me
24 or somethingthe day, I just make the

 

 

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Pago26
1 still crying. And then he's like I can tell he's
2 still, like, in it -- he's still in this in this
3 thing that he's got in his mind of whatever he's
4 doing, and he's still, like, messing with me. He
5 starts undoing his pants, and he takes his penis out
6 and puts it, like, near where my face is. And I'm
7 like so this guy literally just wants me for
8 this, and this is all he wants, and then he'll let
9 me -- because at this point, too, I also know I have
10 to be at work, and he's not going to let me leave,
11 because he's obviously still horny. So I gave him
12 oral sex at this point. And this and this -- and
13 he finished. He did exactly what I thought he would
14 do. He was just like, Okay. I literally got up 
15 he didn't stop me from leaving. I walked upstairs,
16 want into the bathroom, got dressed, and left and
17 went to work.
18 So I grabbed my purse as I was leaving the
19 door, and it wasn't until I got to work that I
20 realized, I don't have my freaking keys because I
21 always put my keys inside of my purse, and so all
22 day long, I just kept thinking, I don't know what to
23 do. He?s told me I cannot call him. He obviously
24 will freak out if I call him. I have to get my
25 keys. I literally can't leave. I can?t tell

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Page28
1 decision to walk down there. I knew he knew what
2 time I got off work because he asked me earlier in
3 hope that he would be, you know, waiting or
4 whatever, which he was. I went in through or I
5 walked up to the back door, and he was already in
6 the kitchen and opened the door and said, You forgot
7 your keys. I said, Yeah. And I was obviously
8 pissed. And he said, You're angry. And I said, I?m
9 really angry. I'm so angry. That is not at all
10 what I wanted to do, Eric. And he said, I know, I
11 know, I just -- I kept thinking about you. And I
12 said, No, you took a freaking picture of me. My
13 husband doesn?t even have a picture of me. You took
14 a picture of me. And he said, I know, but
15 you have to understand, I'm running for office, and
16 people will get me, and I have to have some sort of
17 thing to protect myself. And I thought about you,
18 though, and I felt bad, so I erased it. To which --
19 you know, I didn't believe him, but at least he,
20 like, acknowledged that it was messed up and had a
21 reason why and so then I he said -- I said,
22 Yeah, but I wanted to come here to talk to you. And
23 he said, Well, ask me any question now, I?ll tell
24 you. To which -- I mean, that wasn?t really the
25 case, but because I don't know how many questions
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HEAMNG 
Page29
1 I asked him. And, really, all he about his 
2 relationship, what is going on? What made you feel 
3 like you could do that, because I feel like if you 
4 were in a happy marriage, you wouldn't be doing I
5 that, you know? He just said, Well, my wife had a
6 baby, we're not really intimate now, and that was
7 really the only answer I got. Not that they were
3 separated, not that you know, really, anything
9 else, that was the only reason he gave me.
10 And we talked some, and he was back to
11 kind of being that guy that I knew from the salon.
12 It was extremely charismatic, very kept looking
13 at me straight in my eyes and engaged like, I i
14 felt like he cared about me. He kept trying to hug
15 me and touch me and kind of fondle me, meaning,
16 like, maybe hugging me and trying to put his hand up
17 my shirt. And at this point, it -- I was really
18 kind of mixed, because I hated him from earlier, but
19 I also loved the man that I knew before, so 
20 I stayed there for about 30 minutes, maybe
21 45 minutes having this type of a conversation,
22 having a calming, soothing and his excuse was, I
23 fantasized about you for so long that, you know, I
24 had this idea, and I thought you would really enjoy
25 it. So whenever I went to leave and he and I
ALARBLIHGNHONSERWCES
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embarrassing.
2 So I know the few friends that I told
3 during this period of time, I just -- I didn't want
4 to believe what they saw, you know, looking 
5 outside -- that wasn?t I didn't feel the way that
6 I feel now about it until way later. I was way too
7 embarrassed to think about it. So I didn't sleep --
8 I didn't sleep. I called my friend - I believe,
9 the next day and talked to her about it and told
10 her, I can't all I can think about is my husband.
11 I feel so awful. I'm sick about it. I feel like I
12 have to tell him. And she's like, You know how he
13 is, he?s going to freak out. He freaks out
14 if you flirt with somebody. He will really lose his
15 mind. And I?m just like, I know, but I'm not going
16 to sleep if I don?t tell him. I can't quit thinking
11 about him. Because now, of course, he seems really
18 great pause. You mean -- "he seems
21 really great to me.? You mean your husband?
22 A. Yeah.
23 Q. Your eat-husband now? To him you're
24 referring?
25 A. Yes.
ALARBIIHGNHONSERWCES



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PagaSO
1 both agreed we wouldn't see each other under these
2 circumstances again because I told him, I know
3 I'm in a vulnerable state, my husband and I just
4 separated. I don't know what?s going to happen with
5 that, I just know that I'm -- I don't know. I just
6 feel so uncomfortable with all of this. I just
7 said, I?m not ready for this.
3 So I left that day, and he -- with the
9 understanding that we wouldn?t see each other like
10 this, but he would still come in and get a haircut.
11 And that night I was supposed to be going I was
12 supposed to hang out with a friend of mine -- my
13 friend And she called me, and I said, I
14 can?t go anywhere, can you please just come to my
15 house? She said, Yeah. What?s going on? I said,
16 Just come to my house, please.
17 So she came over that night, and I told
18 her what had happened, and she was just I
19 couldn't quit crying. She laid with me in my bed.
20 I couldn't fall asleep. So and her response was
21 like, - that's -- this is really messed up.
22 And I didn't even at this point, I didn't
23 necessarily want her or anybody to think bad things
24 about him, because it was so embarrassing to me,
25 too. I didn't want him to not want me. It was so
ALARBIIHGKDONSERWCES
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Page32
1 Q. And so you called - the next morning
2 and you told her what had happened the previous day?
3 R. Right.
4 Q. okay. That would be Sunday when you
5 called her?
6 A. Yes.
I Q. Okay. So you had the conversation with
8 - -- I'm sorry for interrupting. I want to go
9 back where we were.
10 a. Sure.
11 Q. You had the conversation with - She
12 said, Your new ex-husband is so jealous, what are
13 you going to do? You said, I have to talk to him.
14 I'm not going to be able to sleep?
15 A. {Witness nods.l
16 Q. Okay. And then?
11 A. And so another --
18 Q. were you still separated at the time from
19 your ex-husband?
20 A. Yes. He was still living at his
21 brother's. So the day before I saw Eric, on -
22 birthday -- on the weeks in
23 the very beginning of our separation I mean, even
24 right away, he just kept pushing me, my husband,
25 asking me, Does this mean you want a divorce? You

Phone:t8002803376 Fae3i?644333?

 

 

 

 

 

 

HEANNG swoon
Paga33
1 have to tell me, do you want to divorce? He just
2 kept pushing it and pushing it. We had that
3 conversation I don't know how many times a dozen,
4 maybe, between the very beginning of March it
5 could have been the very end of February,
6 whatever -- it was about a week before I saw Eric, I
1 know that, until now -- this is March 20th, 
8 birthday. When I got home from work that night, 
9 knowing I had just had that conversation with Eric, 
10 that I?m at least going to talk to him in the 
11 morning about how I have feelings for him or he has
12 feeling for me or whatever, I get home -- and that
13 night, - was going out for - birthday with some
14 . friend, and he looked at me and said, I need
15 to know tonight. Do you want a divorce or not? And
16 I said, Fine, if you have to know tonight, yes, I
1? want a divorce.
18 Q. This was on the 20th?
19 A. On the 20th. So the let, I see Eric, now
20 a mess, as far as emotional -- I have no clue what's
21 going on. And the 25th, I believe 24th 
22 24th or 25th, at this point, I was going on almost
23 no sleep, other than a few hours of sleep total over
24 a four-day period. I make the decision that I have 
25 to tell -
mus unsanow 
ma lanaus Phone:1.800.280.3376 Fax: 31456441334
HEARHQG 
PI9I35
1 Don't tell anybody. Please, please, please, please,
2 don't. And, also, after that day, it was, I need to
3 get an apartment. I'm going to get an apartment,
4 you?re - is going to get an apartment,
5 because -- I mean, you're exactly what I thought.
6 You're a home-wrecker -- because he kept saying, you
7 know, exactly what he knew would get to me.
8 Probably one of the biggest things I felt so guilty
9 about was I did go into a married woman's -- I went
10 into a married woman's home. So he just kept saying 
11 that throughout this whole -- from that point 
12 forward was, you're a home?wrecker, you?re a 
13 horrible person. You went to a married woman?s 
14 home -- because he knew that -- even though we had
15 newly separated, they were definitely married. So
16 it was, you're a home?wrecker, you're a whore,
11 you've cheated, you you know, I have to get an
13 apartment, and we'll meet with a mediator.
19 So Eric came in for an appointment again
20 maybe like a week and a half or two weeks later.
21 And when he came in, the first thing, of course, he 2
22 says is, You didn't tell anybody, did you? And 1
23 was just like, Oh, no, knowing that now telling 
24 my friends is one thing, because they wouldn?t break 
25 my trust, but telling now my soon?to?be ex-husband,

 

 

 

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939034
1 MS. LAUER: I'm sorry. Who?
2 MS. I made the decision that I
3 have to tell my husband.
4 A. So I told him, I have to tell you
5 something, it's really sensitive. Can you meet me
6 so we can talk about it? And he said, Yeah, we can
1 meet in the parking lot -- we were at a parking lot
8 by our house, and he asked me to get in his car, and
9 I proceeded to tell him everything, except for=-- I
10 didn't tell him that Eric called me a whore.
11 There's by that point, there is no way I can tell
12 him that, because I thought even me just telling
13 him anything he's gritting his teeth the whole
14 time, like -- I am so angry. when my husband gets
15 angry, he's really angry. And I know he's so
16 jealous anyway, so and there's no way by the
11 time I got to the point where even I gave him oral
18 sex, I could not tell him at that point.
19 Eventually, I did tell him because my husband and
20 I got back together in July, and I told him, you
21 know, everything.
22 And so after I finished that conversation,
23 his response was, A, you know, I'm going to get this
24 guy one day, I?m going to get him. And I just kept
25 saying, Please, you cannot you can't tell anybody.
ALARIS LITIGA110N SERVICES
WJIIHSMS Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fuc314t6444334
HEAHNGIHWQON
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1 who hates me, hates him, is going to do God knows
2 what, you know, now this on my mind. So I just
3 said, No, no. And he was like, Good, because I have
4 to see you again. I cannot quit thinking about you.
5 You're on my mind all the time. You're the most
6 incredible woman you know, just complimenting,
1 complimenting please tell me when I can see you
3 again. Which, to me, felt so much better than,
9 Okay, yeah, he doesn't think of me as a whore, he
10 doesn't think of me as this thing that he just wants
11 to get off with.
12 So he asked when was the next time he
13 could see me. And from this point forward -- so
14 this would have been early May, you know, maybe --
15 early to mid-May. I saw him a total of, really,
16 five times that were consensual -- or wait, no -- I
17 guess three times. One of the times is the first
13 time, and then I saw him so the next time I
19 agreed to 
20 Q. (By Mr. Barnes} Okay. So let me back up.
21 You were not talking about what happened on
22 march 2Ist?
23 A. Correct.
24 Q. Now you're talking about what happened
25 afterwards?
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Fege37
1 A. Afterwards.
2 Q. And you said three other times?
3 A. Correct.
4 Q. okay. Can you describe -- can we talk
5 about each of those?
6 A. Sure.
7 Q. And sort of the just the general --
3 what happened in your relationship with Eric?
9 A. So kind of forward. So I meet -- here's
10 March. and then I do his hair. We've agreed that.
11 okay. maybe the next time because he said. Could
12 you come in early the next time I come in for an
13 appointment to see me. and that way we can actually
14 talk alone and whatever? So that next time I saw
15 him was at the salon. I didn't typically -- the
16 front desk girls would typically get there first.
1? unless you had a client who had to be there early.
18 So that day I did get the keys from the salon and he
19 showed up maybe 30 minutes before his appointment.
20 and that -- he would have been the first appointment
21 of that day. So that would have been the next time
22 that I saw him in more of a sexual sense or more of
23 a social sense. When he showed up. I consensually
24 kissed him -- so that would have been like the first
25 time that I was that was totally my decision. He

ch3Hd?Ad334
HEAMNG enema
PageSS
1 a. No. Probably 6:30. seven at the latest.
2 Because usually I worked until six or 6:30.
3 And then I went down to his house. came in
4 through the back way again. That time would have
5 been -- I consensually partook in both of us 
6 essentially. oral sex. We were in his bathroom the
7 whole time. pretty much. I wasn?t there for a super
8 long time. I don?t know. maybe 45 minutes. an hour.
9 I don't know. Left. There was nothing really crazy
10 that happened that time or anything. And so then
11 the next time that I saw him would have been 
12 wouldn?t have been until. like. the end of June.
13 So he had come in to the salon at some
14 point. maybe early June. mid-June and said his wife
15 would be out of town for a week. and he wanted to
16 see me during that week. And so on that Saturday. I
1? went over to his house. I went I went out with a
18 few of my girlfriends after work and then went over
19 to his house afterwards. So this my guess would
20 have been 10:00 kind of later. And at first
21 was consensual. you know he has a spare bedroom 5
22 upstairs and took me up there. and we were. like. 
23 making out at this point. My guess is at least 3
24 seminude at this point. And he looks at me and 
25 asked me. have you been intimate with

 

 

 

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1 came in at that time we stayed clothed and
2 everything. but. essentially. made out. And then
3 he my client -- my coworkers showed up. I did his
4 hair. and he left.
5 And then my guess is -- this would have
6 been three. four weeks later --
7 Q. So we?re now we?re --
8 A. In May.
9 Q. May? Okay.
10 a. I was sitting outside of the salon. There
11 was a fountain outside sitting out there reading in between clients. and he
13 drove by and stopped his car and said. come
14 here. And he said. You just look incredible sitting
15 there. You know. I want to see you so bad. What
16 are you doing tonight. because I actually have the
17 house tonight. Would you come over? And even
18 though my husband had an apartment. the kids never
19 saw the apartment. They never went there. They
20 would stay with me every night. so I knew I couldn't
21 be home late. because my husband was staying with
22 the kids at my house until I got home. but I said
23 maybe I could come by for a little bit. So after I
24 left work that night. I went over to his house --
25 Q. What time was that? Five o?clock?

male?sm Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334
HENMNGINWEOB
PI9040
1 anybody? And I said. What do you mean? And he
2 said. Well. since you and I started because he
3 knew that I had been separated from my husband. And
4 I said. Well. I slept with my husband because I
5 knew at some point I had. And he slapped me across
6 my face. just like hard to where I was like. What?
7 Eric. what in the heck? You?re married. Why
8 would -- what do you mean? And he just said. No.
9 Like. that was you're mine. This is what do
10 you mean you slept with your husband? You are not 
11 supposed to be sleeping with him. you know? And I 
12 said. I think you're screwed up from being in the
13 Navy or this is I grew up with a dad who was
14 0 percent physical with me ever. That was just so
15 bizarre to me. you know?
16 So then -- I know we laid there and talked
1? about him being in the Navy and what happened there.
13 Because I know we talked about -- there was a bomb
19 that went off I don't know. That was pretty much
20 our conversation after that. because it was just
21 bizarre.
22 Q. Let me back up. How -- you said he hit
23 you hard.
24 A. Yeah. not like a playful. Oh. you silly;
25 it was like. You're mine. what are you doing?
ALARIS 
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HEANNGINWQOW
Page."
1 Q. With intent to harm or -- I mean -- I'm
2 trying --
3 A. Just. like sure.
4 Q. I'm trying to get something other than
5 just hard. Super hard? Did it knock you down?
6 A. It just swung my face.
7 Q. Okay.
8 A. I didn't have a bruise from it.
9 Q. was it open an open hand?
10 A. Open hand. Uh-huh.
11 Q. Right hand?
12 A. So I don't know. That's a good
13 question. I'm not positive.
14 Q. Okay. So you talked. and then what
15 happened?
16 A. I left that night. and I know I saw him
1? one more time that week. And at -- I believe it
13 was -- so if that was on Saturday. on Sunday he
19 called me and told me. I want to be able to talk to
20 you this week. I got. like. a throwaway phone or.
21 like. a burner phone to be able to call you.
22 Because at this point. we really didn't have much
23 communication outside of the salon. So he got this
24 phone that he could call me on. I believe. on that
25 Sunday. And I know we talked a few times that week.
ALAMSIIHGKHONSERWCES
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1 out. and his car was right outside of the garage.
2 and I followed him to -- off of Manchester by --
3 there was. like. a Kmart by there. Pulled into a
4 parking lot by him. and he asked me to get into his
5 car. And he said. Somebody has e-mailed my wife
6 today. I think it's this Democratic operative that
1 lives in my neighborhood. And. of course. in my
8 mind. I'm like. it's my husband. I know he's been
9 following me. I know I?ve seen people who he's
10 had following me. a couple of his a friend and
11 his friend's brother. you know. as well.
12 But. anyways. he says. I'm going to fly
13 out. I'm going to go see her. convince her. You
14 know. I what I've told her -- and I -- is that
15 you were running in the neighborhood. You came in 
16 through the front door to get a you came up to 
1? the door to get a book for your daughter. and then I 
18 gave you a tour of the house. and then you went out
19 the back way. I guess. just in case semebody saw me
20 leaving the back way. So this is the story you're
21 going to tell if anybody asks you.
22 And so I said. Well -- and so at this
23 point. he finally agreed. Yes. you know. I can't see
24 you like this. but I still want to come in and get
25 my haircut. I said. No. do not come into the salon.

 

 

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?9042

but then I saw him one more time. which was in the

2 morning before work. He asked if I would come over
3 and work out with him. And I did that. came over --

4 we did exercise and went through. like. a workout.

5 and then at the end of it. then it turned sexual in

6 nature. And at first it was fine. and then we were

7 in a position that would have been as if we were

8 having sex. like doggy style. but we didn't ever

9 have intercourse throughout all of the times that I
10 saw him. So he was essentially. like. fingering me
11 and -- but in that position. and out of nowhere.

12 just. like. kind of smacked me and grabbed me and
13 shoved me down on the ground. And I instantly just
14 started bawling and was just like. What is wrong
15 with you? What is wrong with you? And I just laid
16 there crying while he was just like. you're
1? fine. you're fine. You know. not really I think
13 he was just -- I don't know. Maybe that's normal.
19 but. to me. it's not.
20 So after that. I got ready and left and
21 went to work. and it was that day that at the end
22 of the day. I went to leave work. and he was waiting
23 outside of The - and he said. I need to talk to
24 you. you have got to follow me. there's an issue.
25 And I said. Okay. So I got in my car and pulled
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Page?

1 This is not fair to me. this is not fair to your

2 wife. just leave me alone.

3 So I know he called me one more time that

4 next morning early before he got on a flight to go

5 to see Sheena to convince her that all of this was a

6 lie and that this was nothing. And he told me he

7 was throwing away the phone and that was. you know.

3 going to be it.

9 So that following week. my husband and I
10 had a -- our mediator appointment and to discuss
11 the details of our divorce. and my husband was
12 extremely kind to me for the first time since.

13 really. all of our separation had started. and he's
14 like. I don't want this divorce. she's the one that
15 wants it. I'm really sad about it. I love her you
16 know? And so after that we discussed. could we give
1? it one last try? I told him. I will not be seeing
18 Eric ever again. I know I won't. And so we decided.
19 yes. we would give it one last try. And that's when
20 we had conversation after conversation after
21 conversation about what did I do with him? When did
22 I see him? How did I see him? what exactly
23 happened?
24 and in October. Eric came in or he was
25 walking by the salon and came in to the front desk
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Page45
1 and said. you know. Does - have anything I
2 available today? Well. her client after this one
3 canceled if you. you know. want that appointment.
4 So as soon as he sat down. I was like. Eric. you
5 have got to stop. I?m back with my husband. And
6 he's like. What? You cannot be back with this guy?
7 What do you mean? You haven't told him anything.
3 have you? And I was just like. No. but you have to
9 leave me alone. I mean. what about your wife? And
10 he's like. She doesn't think anything. Everything
ll is fine. She doesn't think anything. So I said.
12 well. okay. just please don?t don?t come in. just
13 leave me alone. And in that conversation. I felt
14 like there was enough things said like. 
15 you're on my mind all the time. that I thought. he's 
16 not going to leave me alone. 2
1? when I got home that day. I promised my 2
18 husband if I ever saw him or talked to him. I would 3
19 tell him. So I told my husband. Listen. he came in 
20 today. And my husband flipped out. got super angry
21 with me. How dare you even cut his hair. And he
22 said. He's going to continue to do this because he
23 wants to maintain some control over you. just in
24 case. And I said and part of me thought.
25 regardless. I do think that's true. so I decided to
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Page47
1 recording over to the media; is that correct?
2 A. Yes. 50 after that day. he kept saying.
3 I'm going to ruin this guy. I?m going to ruin this
4 guy. And it wasn't until October the reason why
5 we for sure went to get a divorce is not simply
6 because of this. When we got back together. my
1 husband admitted to sleeping with five women with
3 five women from the time that we ?irst got
9 separated. two of them being before his birthday.
10 and then the only reason why the only reason
11 why he admitted to it is because I met one of the
12 women when we first got back together. and when I
13 met her. I asked him if he had slept with her and
14 he thought maybe I had asked her. because I actually
15 spoke with her. So he admitted. yes. I did. but you
16 are the one that wanted to separate, this is your
1? fault. So -- and I agreed. You know. I was the one
18 who asked him to go to his brother's. I am the one.
19 And. plus. I felt so bad for him for what I had
20 started with Eric. So that was fine. And then he
21 admitted that following week that he slept with five
22 women and but I just made the ultimate decision
23 that if we're going to make this work. I can i
24 absolutely look past this. This was when we were 5
25 separated. and I'm hoping for his forgiveness. too.

 

 

 

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1 write that e?mail and sent him an e-mail just
2 saying. Please think of everyone involved and just
3 leave me alone. Don?t come in at all. And then
4 that was it. I never saw him again.
5 Q. So that was October of 2015?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. And you have not since seen Eric Greitens?
8 A. No.
9 Q. Okay. Did Eric Greitens or anyone
10 associated with him pay you or give you anything of
11 value --
12 A. No.
13 Q. in exchange for -- let me finish my
14 question. okay?
15 A. 0h.
16 Q. Did Eric Greitens or anyone associated
1? with him pay you or give you anything of value in
18 exchange for staying quiet about this?
19 A. No.
20 Q. Did Eric Greitens or anyone associated
21 with him ever offer you anything of value in
22 exchange for staying quiet about this?
23 A. No.
24 Q. Your ex-husband. I believe tell me if
25 this is correct -- is the one who turned the audio
ALARIS SERVICES
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HEARHQG 
Page 48
1 And then in October when I told him that
2 Eric had come in. he told me. I still can?t be
3 married to you. Even after I sent the e-mail. he
4 said. I still can?t be married to you. This is way
5 too -- too much. And so at that point. I just said.
6 Okay. I am so tired. I am so tired of being shamed
7 and hearing how horrible I am. Okay. And so then
8 he kind of freaked out thinking. Oh. my gosh. it?s
9 really going to happen. So he said. Well. wait. I
10 need to talk to you. You were right I had been
11 asking him in that maybe month and a half or -- so
12 just saying. Is there another woman involved?
13 Because I had met a woman who he worked with. and I
14 caught them talking alone in August at a concert
15 that he had. And I asked him five women. and he said no. she?s married. she has
1? two kids. it?s not her. And I said. Okay. I just
18 knew something was weird. And so I kept asking him.
19 Are you sure none of these other women are still
20 involved? You aren't talking to any of them?
21 Because he had access to everything in my phone 
22 he had everything. but I was not allowed access to
23 his stuff because it was me who wanted the
24 separation whatever.
25 So in October he says. Yes. there is
ms SERVICES
?Mnmah?nus Phone:18002803376 Fm:31%6440334

 

 

 

 

 

 

HEANNG EWQOB
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1 another woman involved right now, and I did sleep

2 with one of the five again the one who I met.

3 After I met her, after we were back together, they

4 slept together again at some point while we were

5 back together. And then there was another woman

6 involved, which I believe to be the woman who he is

7 still currently with. So she ended up leaving her

8 husband it was just such a mess at that point.

9 I'm like -- so now there's this woman, there's 

10 you slept with somebody else after we were back

11 together so much. No, I -- I can't do it. This

12 is too much. And then that's when he started with,
13 Well, you?re the one who wanted a divorce, this is
14 your fault, you asked for this. Just wait, because

15 your good reputation, your outstanding

16 reputation is going to be ruined and so is
1? Eric Greitens'. You guys are going to go down
18 because I have proof of it. And that was the first
19 time he admitted he had proof, but I didn't see it; 
20 he just said it. 
21 Q. So that was in October of 2015? 
22 A. Yes. 
23 Q. That his name is 

24 A. Yes. 
25 Q. started threatening you --
ALARIS LITIGATIONSEMCES
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Page51
1 So then right around the election, I had 3
2 multiple people nobody came to me nobody from 
3 the media, nobody from the political world came and 2
4 said, Tell me about your story, we want to run a 
5 story. Nobody did that. - started claiming to
6 friends and family, anybody who would listen, You
I don't even know the story that's trying to come out,
3 but I'm protecting I've paid thousands of
9 dollars to protect her. He also told me the same
10 thing. You deserve it, but I'm -- I'm protecting
11 you, even though you don't deserve it, - -- even
12 though I don't deserve his protection.
13 And, again, nobody came up to me, nobody
14 said anything until after the election. I had
15 multiple people tell me that Koster?s campaign had
16 the information but decided not to use it, and that
- had tried to get them to use it but refused to
18 give them that tape at that point because that would
19 prove that it was him, and also refused to go on
20 record saying anything. And so at this point, I was
21 just relieved that no matter how hard he was trying
22 to hurt me, that somehow it wasn't going to happen
23 until this past December. That was when the first
24 reporter came in I'm in a different salon where I
25 have essentially think of, like, a tiny home

 

 

 

malariaus


ch31$844d334



 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pagoso

A. Yes.

2 Q. -- with the proof -- let me start over so

3 we have a clear record.

4 In October 2015, started

5 threatening you with disclosure of the proof that he

6 had regarding you and Eric Greitens; is that

7 correct?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. Okay. And how did he go about threatening
10 you with that and for how long? was it a one-time
ll deal?

12 R. No. 50 it would be random texts that he
13 would send saying, you know, You ruined your kids'
14 family. You have coming to you what you deserve. I
15 can't believe people don?t see behind, you know,
16 what you've done. Just wait. this you know, when
17 Eric was running for office, you know, multiple
18 times he would say things to me like, you know, If
19 this P05 gets into office, this is absolutely
20 insane, he doesn't deserve this, just wait. And I
21 just kept hoping he because I would just ignore
22 it. I never would say, well, you did this, too, or
23 whatever, because at this point, I really just don't
24 want to talk about it, I just want to move on, and
25 I'm hoping he really did not record me.
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Page52

salon. It's like a little room. And this woman

2 comes in -- she had booked a fake appointment under

3 a fake name, and she came in and announced that she

4 wasn't there for a haircut, that she was working on

5 a story about the governor. And I just started

6 crying. I said, No. No, you do not understand how

7 traumatic this whole thing is. I cannot go there.

8 I have kids. My ex-husband is so, so vindictive, he

9 wants to hurt me so bad. Please do not run this
10 story. She said, Well, I understand, but there are
11 some allegations. Some of these rumors are pretty
12 disturbing. And I said, I understand that, but my
13 ex-husband is so, so evil with this stuff. He just
14 wants to hurt me. Please, please do not do this to
15 me. I have children. I'm in school full time, I
16 work full-time -- my life is so busy. So she was
11 just after the only thing that I confirmed or
18 denied was -- she said, There's a rumor that you got
19 paid off, and I said, Well, that's not true. The
20 rest of it, I didn't confirm or deny; I just
21 essentially said, Please, I don?t want to do this.
22 And she said, Well, there are rumors of other women.
23 And I said, Well, tell them that's one thing. If
24 you find these other women, you can contact me, and
25 I will talk to them, and that's how I left it. I

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1 said, Thank you for, you know, respecting me --

2 because she seemed as though she was not going to do

3 this story at all. She I gave her a hug. She

left my salon, and I called my friend - who had

5 known about the situation since the very beginningbest -- she was the one that I

7 saved his number under from D.C., and she?s an

8 attorney. And I said, - this woman just came

9 in and I?m freaking out. And she said, She?s not
10 going to run a story without your word, 

11 please, just don't say anything, and it'll be okay.
12 You'll be fine. 
13 And then she -- that woman continued to a
14 call me throughout that month, and I didn't answer 
15 ever. I received other missed phone calls. I never a
16 talked to anybody else. And then the day before it
1? aired, I got a missed phone call from her, and she
18 said on my voicemail, - I've just heard a
19 recording with your voice on it and your ex-husband,
20 and I know other media people have, too, and
21 somebody is going to run this story, so we really
22 want you word. And I called - and I said,
23 because - had asked me, They're not
24 going to run it do they have any proof? And I
25 said, Well, - has threatened me that he has this
ALARELIHGNHOHSERWCES
me Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334
HEAHNG QWQOE
P391355

1 that. I asked my my kids were in my room,

2 because I sleep with them sometimes, and I asked

3 them to leave the room because I was going to watch

a an adult show. And then I heard it I heard it

5 for the first time then, because I was hoping to God

6 that it didn't really exist. And he said in that

7 interview that he had to do my ex-husband --

3 because his daughter was being -- getting calls,

9 which was so untrue. It was my daughter. I had a 
10 daughter when I was in college the first time, like, a
11 three years before I married - and - is the
12 one who got the missed call. She had no clue what
13 it was about. She thought it was about 

14 neighbor, because they asked for about
15 an incident, and she just passed along the message: 
16 it wasn't a big deal. And then in the morning 
17 she was already asleep when that came on, and in the 
13 morning the morning after, I went downstairs and i
19 had to wake her up and tell her about everything and
20 what she might see on TV about her mom.
21 So this just makes it so complicated,
22 because I have -- it's not somebody who I didn't
23 really know that wanted to put this information out
24 there,- it's the father of my kids. So
25 Q. I have four more questions for you, and
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P39054
tape, but I can't see him doing it because then it
2 goes against his story that he?s claimed to
3 everybody that he's just trying to protect me, so I
4 don't think he would use it, if he even had it. So
5 when I called her and said they have this tape,
6 said, Just don't say anything. I will call
her back. For all you know, it's really jumbled,
8 you know, you can?t even hear it. Because -- who
knows. Maybe he had it in his pocket. So then the
10 next day, she called she called the Lauren
11 back. Because the reporter had texted me saying,
12 Did you get the voicemail? I
13 So called her back and just said,
14 Listen, my client was not aware of being taped.
15 Where did you get this from? And she said at first
16 she was not telling her, and then she said, Well, I
1? got it from the ex-husband. And she said, Listen,
18 she does not want any part of this. Please, do not
19 do this. And she just said, I know, but somebody is
20 going to run this story, we just want her word, to
21 which she just said, No comment, no comment. And
22 then three minutes before it aired, that woman,
23 Lauren -- called my friend, and just said,
24 We're going live with it. He admitted to the
25 affair. So that was the first time I ever heard
MARIE SERVICES
melanin Phone: 1.800.200.1376 Fax: 314.644.1334
HEAMNGIHWQOE
Pagess
1 than I think we'll take a break.
2 The first three are questions I feel like
3 I have to ask because there have been so many rumors
4 swirling about, and the first two relate to
5 something I think you?ve already answered but I want
6 to follow up with the particulars.
7 Are you driving new car?
8 No. I have a 2009 van.
9 Q. Okay. So you're not driving around in a
10 Range Rover paid for by someone unknown?
11 A. No.
12 Q. okay. Do you know where that -- is there
13 any, like 
14 A. I know where that came from. So my
15 current boyfriend just got a new job as a -- he's an
16 -that will be traveling, and his work car
17 that he got, before it came in or a company car,
18 before it came in, he had two rental cars. one of
19 them being an Infinity, like, bigger car -- I don't
20 know what it is -- and one of them being a Tahoe.
21 And so on two occasions I picked up my kids -- and
22 this just happened. He just got the job in
23 November, and he didn?t get his current company car
24 until maybe the beginning of February or something.
25 Anyway, so I showed up to pick up my kids
ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
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Page??
1 from my ex-husband in both of those care. because as
2 soon as this broke. my boyfriend said. Take my cars. 
3 do not drive your van because I was followed in i
4 my van by reporters. And so my sister?in?law went 
5 to go pick up my nephew from my ex?husband's house
6 and said. Hey. just so you know. says that you
7 have some new car and that it's fishy how you got
8 it. And I said. Well. no this is ?rental car.
9 But he never asked me about it. never -- you know.
10 just to seewhatever. The
11 next thing I know. that's a rumor that reporters had
12 asked Scott about.
13 Q. So the second question is about a rumor.
14 and that is. Did you just remodel your house?
15 A. So I did kind of update my kitchen. I
16 painted the cabinets and put new hardware on the
1? cabinets. I did get new countertops and 
18 Q. Did that cost. like. $200.000?
19 A. No. It cost a couple of thousand dollars.
20 but I paid for it with my own money.
21 Q. Okay. The third question is of a
22 relationship with Chris Koster. That is another
23 thing that is bandying about the Capitol. and I feel
24 like I have to ask you the question. Did you have
25 any relationship with Chris Roster?

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1 room. without revealing whether you spoke to the
2 grand jury. is there anyone else with whom you
3 spoke --
4 A. Prior to? My friend -. That would
5 have been a couple of weeks later.
6 Q. is that correct?
1' A. YES.
3 Q. Okay. And that week -- and she?s been
9 identified in something we received from your
10 ex-husband. or course. there's your ex?husband?
11 A. Yes. So that was it at that time. He had
12 told -- he sat my family down -- at some point 
13 when I was -- I took a vacation for the first time
14 ever by myself. I went to Tucson to go hiking in
15 early June. just to get away from this stuff. and he
16 sat my family down while I was gone and told them
1? everything -- told my mom. my sisters. my dad.
18 Q. when was that?
19 A. Early June.
20 Q. 2016 or 
21 A. 2015. He told friends. friends of
22 friends. anybody who would listen what 
23 Q. Hold on. He told Your family?
24 A. He sat my family down when I was out of
25 town and told them. 

 

 

 

 

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A. Zero percent. I mean. he was my client.
2 He was my client. that is true. but nothing outside
3 of that. He's like a father to me.
4 Q. And then the last question I want to ask.
5 and then we'll take a break. is. other than the
6 people in this room. and without revealing whether
7 you spoke to a grand jury. who else have you spoken
8 with about your relationship with Eric Greitens?
9 Now. let me start with examples. because
10 you said -.
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. And what is last name?
13 .. 
14 Q. And you said -
15 A. Yes. 
16 Q. And you said 
1? A. Yes.
13 
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. But she was your lawyer?
21 A Yes.
22 She?s a friend and a lawyer?
23 A. Correct. And she acted as my attorney in
24 the very beginning until Scott took over for me.
25 Q. Okay. So other than the people in this
ALARIS 
malaria: us Phone:1.800.230.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334
HEAMNGIWWQOM
Pagsso
1 And then -- so at that time. that was all
2 I had told. None of my coworkers -- - was my
3 coworker. but none of them -- not even I have a
4 really close friend that I didn?t tell. She didn't
5 know anything until this came out. She called me
6 that night -- I mean. most people knew it was me
7 because of my voice. but the only other people I
8 told was right after the election. I was at a
9 dinner with a group of. like. six girls -- one of
10 them was turning 40. and all of the girls except for
11 one are Republican and had voted for him. and they
12 were talking political stuff. I was staying silent.
13 At this point. they were talking about all of these
14 women who were complaining about Trump. they're just
15 babies -- I mean. all of these -- why did they care?
16 And I don't know. it just got to me. I started
crying. They said. - what?s wrong? I said.
18 Guys. I had something happen that I?m actually
19 sensitive to Trump?s comment about grabbing them --
20 grabbing women by the pussy whenever you have power
21 like that. And they were like. What do you mean?
22 And so I sat there at. like. a fancy restaurant with
23 all of these women crying with them. telling them
24 what had happened and you know. You guys do not
25 ever tell anybody. please. And they all were like.
ALARBIIHGKHONSERVKES
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H9061
1 Why did you let us vote for him. you know? I said.
2 because I don't want anybody to know, please.
3 So other than them. that was it. And
4 then now I've just obviously. like I said. a
5 lot of people have asked me about it because they
6 knew my voice and they?ve heard from I mean. i
7 everybody. I feel like. knows. 
8 Q. Okay.
9 MR. BARNES: Let's take a break and go off
10 the record.
11 recess was taken.)
12 MR. BARNES: Thank you. After having
13 taken a short break. I'm going to let vice chairman
14 ask some questions now. And just so you can be
15 aware of what our order is going to be here. we?re 
16 going to go with our vice chair. ranking member 
11 MS. LAUER: Senior. 
18 MR. BARNES: Senior. in terms of
19 legislative experience. and then we're going to go
20 in order of legislative age here. I?m the chairman
21 of the said committee.
22 So Representative Phillips.
23 EXAMINATION
24 BY MR. PHILLIPS:
25 Q. Don Phillips. And is it all right i? I

nuntah?sus Phonm13002803376 Fac3H4?41334


1 is a picture now. they're going to have to get it,
2 like. forensically, they?ll have to pull it up --
3 or do you think this phone is gone, he destroyed
4 that particular phone, or would anybody have access
5 to it?
6 A. That?s a good question. I don't know. I
1 would assume that he's probably gotten rid of it by
8 now.
9 Q. Okay. All right.
10 A. But I'm not sure.
11 Q. okay. Was there ever any attempt to
12 blackmail -- I know what -- you testified what was
13 said to you. but was there actually ever any attempt
14 after that for any kind or blackmail or anything?
15 A. No. He would just ask me. Have you told
16 anybody?
17 Q. okay.
18 A. And it was just -- to me. that was kind of
19 an understanding of. You're not going to tell
20 anybody otherwise something will happen.
21 Q. Okay. Then -- since then, has there been
22 any contact from him to call you and say, 
23 this has all broken down, this has all broke in the
24 media, my job as governor could be in trouble, you
25 need to keep your mouth shut? Has he ever called

 

 

 

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1 call you -
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Okay. you'll be pleased to know my
4 questions will be somewhat brief. I think you have
5 been very open, and I appreciate that, and I?m sure
6 the other committee members do. So I don't mean to
rehash some of those details that aren't com?ortable
8 for you. obviously, and -- I want to kind of cut to
9 the chase as to what we're really doing here.
10 So one thing I wanted to ask about was the
11 picture. Do you know absolutely for a fact that he
12 took a picture -- I know he admitted taking your
13 picture.
14 A. Yes?
15 Q. And did you just see the flash or what --
16 what did he use? His phone? was that it?
11 A. Yes. I could hear it and I could see the
18 flash.
19 Q. You could hear it click?
20 A. Yeah. It sounded like a cell phone
21 click you know. like a {indicating}.
22 Q. Okay. And was there a flash to you?
23 A. Yes. I could see it through the
24 blindfold.
25 Q. Okay. Then as far as you know, if there
ALARBIIHGNHONSERVKES
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1 and said anything like that --
2 A. No.
3 Q. since the news broke?
4 A. No. His attorney reached out right after
5 my attorney's name was released -- reached out to my
6 attorney and essentially said. What does your client
1 want out of this? And my attorney said, She wants
2 this to not he the case. She doesn't want to be a
9 part of this. She's a mother -- and he said,
10 Well yeah -- I mean. that was the general
11 conversation, was. essentially. Tell me what does
12 she want out of this.
13 Q. So by "what does she want," did you
14 interpret that to mean if you said, You know, I can
15 think of a quarter million reasons why I can keep my
16 mouth shut; did you interpret it as a question
1? leading down that road, like what does she want,
13 meaning monetary?
19 A. I took it more to mean does she want to
20 fight my client on this?
21 Q. okay.
22 A. Dr is she just going to remain quiet and
23 it's going to go away?
24 Q. Okay. So the tone -- you spoke directly
25 to the attorney; is that right?
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A. I did not.
2 Q. oh, you did not?
3 A. Right. His attorney contacted my
4 attorney.
5 Q. Okay. And so that was your take on it.
6 You didn't see that as some attempt to buy you off
7 or anything like that?
8 A. No.
9 Q. Okay. And then any other staff members
10 ever get ahold of you after that? Any follow-up
11 calls anything?
14 A. Unless I missed a call that I don't know
15 what it is. Nobody ever left me a message. and I
16 never spoke to anyone.
1? Q. Okay. One other thing real quick. The
18 thing that he's been charged with by way of grand
19 jury is invasion of privacy. And -- based on that
20 picture, that?s going to be fairly hard to prove
21 unless they've got a picture. My question to you
22 is, if you feel comfortable answering it, do you
23 feel like your privacy was invaded?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. It's pretty obvious from what you said
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Pages?
1 here and I thank you for your courage and your
2 candor. I can only imagine how difficult this whole 
3 thing has been for you, and my thoughts are with you 
4 in that respect. 
5 So these are going to be some difficult 
6 questions, and I want to apologize in advance for
7 them, but, first of all, you described it the first
8 time on March 21st, when you came to Eric's house at
9 approximately 7:00 that he grabbed your purse.
10 Was that a forceful grab? Could you sort of
11 elaborate on exactly what your sense was of how that
12 happened?
13 A. I didn't pull it away from him, so he
14 didn't have to pull hard, but he -- it wasn't --
15 there was no spoken word of. Can I look through your
16 purse 
17 Q. Right.
18 R. it was just literally looking at me
19 with making the quiet --
20 Q. The signal?
21 A. The signal. And then looking at me
22 while he grabbed my purse and keys out of my hand,
23 and then sat them over but looked back at me to
24 make sure I'm still not talking. and then he started
25 going through my purse.

 

 

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1 that -- I knew the answer to that question, but I

2 needed to be sure, because, you know, in one sense,

3 you were willing to go there -- to the house. I

4 mean, you weren't -- you didn?t sign up for the

5 other stuff. So, anyway, that?s really all I've

6 got, and I thank. you, again, - for being here

7 and being open and telling us some things that were

8 pretty painful for you to share, so 

9 MR. BARNES: Back up, because she was --
10 we had a head shake and I'm sorry to play the --
11 you said -- I'm sorry to play the lawyer role, but
12 to make a clear record here, the representative
13 asked you, You didn't sign up -- you came to the
14 house willingly: correct?

15 MS. -: Yes.
16 MR. BARNES: But you did not sign up for
17 the other things that happened; correct?
13 n5. No. No.
19 MR. BARNES: No, you did not sign up?
20 1-13. .: No, I did not.
21 MR. BARNES: Thank you.
22 EXAMINRTION
23 BY MS. MITTEN:
24 Q. Hi. I?m Representative Mitten from the
25 st. Louis area, and, again, I thank you for being
ALARIS 
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1 Q. Okay. So you never obviously consented to

2 him doing any of that?

3 A. No.

4 Q. Okay. Then did he search your purse at

5 any other time "a during any of the other encounters

6 that you had with him? So the second time, I guess,

7 was in May of 2015, the third time would have been

3 in June 2015. I can't remember if there was a

9 fourth time or not, honestly, but --

10 A. No. The only other thing like that that
11 he did was when I was in his car, he took my phone.
12 Q, Right.

13 A. Because my phone had vibrated at some

14 point, and he took it to make sure that nothing --

15 it wasn't being recorded or anything, and he took my
16 phone and sat it aside, that way I couldn?t touch it
1? while I was in his car.

18 Q. Okay. And then, again, that first time,
19 in addition to grabbing your purse and going through
20 its contents, he also then touched your person
21 without your consent. Is that a fair
22 characterization?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. And you believe he was he was touching
25 your whole person? In other words, your --
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1 A. Correct. 3
2 Q. -- clothed chest, buttocks, that sort of
3 thing?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. okay. Then -- how was that touch? How
6 would you describe that touch when he was -- that
7 you did not consent to immediately upon your arrival
8 in May of -- excuse me on March 21st?
9 A. It just made me more nervous than I
10 already was. But he was he seemed as though he
11 knew what he was doing.
12 Q. okay. Would you describe it as a forceful
13 touch?
14 A. Yes. Not to hurt me. but yes. Not a
15 gentle petting, but more, I'm going to see what's in
16 here. - 
11 Q. Right. Okay. Okay.
18 Then during any of your sexual contacts
19 with Eric, did he ever ask you for your consent
20 beforehand? And I?m going to sort of run through
21 some of those, just so that you understand the broad 
22 question, and we'll get a little more specific, but, 
23 for instance, did he -- did he ask for your consent
24 before he tied you to the rings?
25 A. No. He just told me to put my hands on
ALAREIIHGNUONSERWCES
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1 A. Exactly. Because it was still on my arm.
2 Q. okay.
3 A. But it was just completely open, I guess.
4 Q. And then you testified that you that he
5 provided you a pair of male pajama bottoms that you
6 were wearing at the time that you were in the
7 basement. were those -- was that piece of clothing
8 also removed? 
9 A. It was down at my feet. 2
10 Q. okay. 2
11 B. So he pulled it down. a
12 Q. So he pulled the he pulled those pants 2
13 down to your ankles. Is that a fair
14 characterization?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. And you did not consent to that happening,
1? either?
18 A. No.
19 Q. And then he you testified that he then
20 kissed you, at least on your upper body?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. And you never consented to thatthere is some 
25 MR. BARNES: Did you consent to that? We

 

 

 

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Page70
the rings.
2 Q. okay. And did he ask you for your consent
3 before he placed the blindfold on you?
4 A. No. He just placed the blindfold.
5 Q. Did you object verbally or by action?
6 A. Not at this point. I was silent.
7 Q. Okay. Did he ask you for your consent
8 when he tore the shirt that you were wearing it
9 was apparently -- the shirt that he had provided you
10 was torn, I believe, pretty quickly after you were
11 blindfolded and bound?
12 A. No. he did not.
13 Q. But you did not consent to that to the
14 tearing of that -- your clothingthe clothing you were wearing? It
11 wasn't really even your clothing.
18 A. Correct.
19 Q. And you may have answered this or
20 testified to this, so I apologize to have to rehash
21 this, but he tore the white shirt. Did he remove it
22 or tear it all the way off of you?
23 A. He tore it, and then it was just kind
24 of 
25 Q. Hanging?
ALARBIIHGNDONSERWCES
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1 have an ambiguity question in the answer.
2 MS. MITTEN: Did you consent to -- 
3 MR. BARNES: Yes. Did you consent -- 
4 MS. MITTEN: To the pulling down of the
5 pants.
6 MR. BARNES: Yes. Yes. But that's not
1 what you asked initially, so I want to back up
8 and again, clear record.
9 MS. MITTEN: Thank you. Thank you. I
10 appreciate it.
11 MR. BARNES: Okay.
12 Q. {By Ms. Mitten) Did you consent to Eric to
13 pulling the pajama bottoms down to your ankles?
14 A. No, I did not.
15 Q. Okay. Did you consent -- there's -- the
16 transcript of the tape that we've sort of touched
1? upon -- and I believe we'll touch upon more later --
18 indicates that he was touching you with his fingers.
19 Is that did that happen?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. On March 21st at the 7:00 a.m. in the
22 basement, after you were blindfolded, after you were
23 tied, he touched you with his fingers; correct?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And did that touching include genital
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Page 73
1 touching of you of your genitals by his fingers?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Did that include the word used in the
4 transcript is "inside." We would call it legally
5 "digital penetration." so -- sorry to kind of go
6 down this route. but was there digital penetration
1 at the March 21st 7:00 a.m. encounter in his home?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Did you consent to that digital
10 penetration?
11 A. Not verbally, no.
12 Q. Okay. Okay. Would you -- do you believe
13 you consented in some other fashion to that digital
14 penetration?
15 A. I mean. I was silent.
16 Q. okay. No. that's not the same. so --
17 that's fine.
18 Then you indicated that there was. then.
19 oral sex at the March 21st 7:00 a.m. encounter --
20 we'll just call it that. Did you consent to
21 performing that?
22 A. It's a hard question because I did it 
23 it felt like consent. but. no. I didn't want to do
24 it.
25 Q. Okay. Do you feel that you were coerced
ALARBIIHGAIKNHSERWCES
wuwnah?sis Phone:18002803378 

PIQOTS
A. Yes. i
2 Q. okay. And then I?m going to move forward I
3 to -- I believe you testified that you went to his
4 house again in May of 2015 -- or was that at the
5 salon? I can't remember.
6 A. I believe May was at his house.
7 Q. At his house. Well, let me ask this way:
8 Were there three times that you went to Eric's
9 house?
10 A. Four times. including the March time.
11 Q. okay. So March. May. June -- oh. twice in
12 March.
13 A. And then June well okay. So in
14 March -- I guess it?s five. if you include the fact
15 that I came back that day.
16 Q. Twice on March 21st.
1? A. Right. And then in May. and then at the
18 end of June and the very beginning of July.
19 Q. okay. And then that was the very
20 beginning was the July 3rd when the e-mail --
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Okay. okay. Then in -- it was the 
23 late June 2015 when he asked you if you had had any
2d sexual encounters with anybody else; is that
25 correct?

 

 

 

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Page74
or otherwise forced to do that?
2 a. Coerced. maybe. I felt as though that
3 would allow me to leave. That's what he wanted I
4 felt that's what he wanted. and then I would .u
5 Q. So you didn't feel necessarily able to
6 leave without performing oral sex?
1 A. Correct.
8 Q. when you said no -- and I?m sorry. I'm
9 sort of backtracking a second here. But. again,
10 during the March 21st encounter. when you were bound
11 and blindfolded and he had begun to touch you. you
12 indicated that you said. No. and he then stopped.
13 Is that a fair characterization?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. And then he unbound you and removed the
16 blindfold?
l? A. Correct.
18 Q. Did you feel that saying no at that point
19 extended to the further contact?
20 A. Oh. Looking back. yes. In the moment. I
21 was so emotional.
22 Q. Okay. Would you describe I mean. would
23 you describe one of those emotions as being fear?
24 A. Definitely.
25 Q. Physical -- fear for your physical self?
ALARIS SERVICES
Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334
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Pa9e76
1 A. Correct.
2 Q. And when he slapped you. did you feel he
3 was trying to hurt you?
4 A. I felt like he was trying to claim me.
5 Q. Okay.
6 A. More slap sense into me, if that makes
7 sense at all.
8 Q. Do you believe that he slapped you with
9 the intent to hurt you?
10 A. Not necessarily. I don't know the intent.
11 Q. Right.
12 A. I?ve never been in a relationship like
13 that. so I'm not sure. It felt just claiming me.
15 Q. Okay. okay. And then what happened after
16 he slapped you? was there sexual contact -- I'm a
17 little bit fussy about what happened after he
18 slapped you.
19 A. I believe it was just conversation after
20 that. I remember laying there talking to him about
21 it -- about him being in the Navy and asking
22 questions about that. It kind of became more -- I
23 wanted to understand that. There had been sexual
24 contact that night prior to 
25 Q. Right.
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1 A. -- but I don?t believe afterwards. I 
2 my I just remember asking you know, saying,
3 You're married. I'm so confused. It just didn't
4 make sense to me.
5 Q. okay. So, again, just so that I can
6 understand here -- so in the June 2015 encounter,
7 you're at his home, you're engaging in consensual
8 sexual behavior?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. And then at some point during that sexual
11 session, for lack of a better term, he asked you
12 about if you had sex with anybody else, and then
13 you're slapped, and then you have a discussion. Is
14 that a fair characterisation of the chain of events?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. And then at some point, you leave, and
17 then the next encounter was, I guess, July 3rd,
18 probably less than ten days after that slapping
19 incident? Is that a fair --
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Okay. You discussed at some point Eric
22 having a second phone or a burner phone. When did
23 you first become aware of the existence of a second
24 phone?
25 A. That week that his wife was going to be
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Page'ls
1 MS. MITTEN: Thank you. Thank you so
2 much.
3 EXAMINATION
4 BY MS. LAUER:
5 Q. Hi. I'm Representative Jeanie Lauer. And
6 I will probably not go in order, as my colleagues
1 have done here: I might jump around a bit.
8 First of all, can you confirm that it is
9 your voice on the audio?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. And at what point -- at what point -- or
12 were you ever aware of this audio being recorded?
13 A. In October of 2015. So at the end of that
14 year, whenever my husband and I were for sure 2
15 getting a divorce, that's when he told me he had i
16 proof and he had taped that conversation. 
1? Q. But you had never heard it at that point? 
18 A. I had never heard it until it came out on 
19 January 10th in the news.
20 Q. okay. We've talked about blackmail, and,
21 of course, they were talking about more of the
22 financial thing. I'm going to ask a bit more about
23 the emotional side, because there were times when
24 you said that Eric would ask if you had told and
25 said, Good girl and so forth. Did you feel that

 

 

 

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1 out of town all week, I saw him -- I believe she
2 left let's say Thursday or Friday. I saw him
3 that Saturday, and he did not have it at that point.
4 Maybe Sunday, the next day, he let me know that --
5 he had wanted to talk to me more while his wife
6 gone, so he had gotten this burner phone.
7 Q. Okay. And that was -- that was not in
8 March, that was in May or 
9 A. This would have been end of June.
10 Q. okay. That's what I was going to say.
11 Okay. End of June. So you're not aware of him
12 having a second or burner phone as of March 21st --
13 A. Correct.
14 Q. -- of 2015? Okay. Did you ever see a
15 photograph that he took of you in any state of
16 undress?
17 A. No. He did not show it to me.
18 Q. So your only personal knowledge is from
19 hearing a click and seeing a flash on Harch 21st --
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. of 2015?
22 A. And him acknowledging it after he took it
23 and saying, I'm going to put this picture
24 everywhere. And then whenever I came back, telling
25 me that he had erased it.
ALANSLIHGNHONSERVKES
mandate Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334
HEAMNG 
PagsBO
1 there was a threat coming from him, that if you did
2 say something, that something would happen?
3 A. Oh, definitely. I during this time
4 period, I was also fearful of the picture, but also
5 of what I didn't know, what else would he do.
6 Because this obviously meant a lot to him. It
wasn't until later that I became not as worried
8 about the picture, more worried of my physical
9 wellbeing.
10 Q. Talk about that a bit -- about your
11 physical -- what caused you to feel that way?
12 A. . I felt as though -- this obviously meant running for governor. I knew I had
14 told my husband -- more -- more importantly than
15 anybody, and that if the word got back to him, he
16 would do something to hurt me to make sure that I
17 couldn't tell anybody else or that, you know,
18 this -- I would know that I wasn't supposed to be
19 doing -- you know, telling anybody this.
20 Q. Did that create a level of fear in you?
21 Yes. 50 my current boyfriend reminded me
22 of an incident that happened maybe that -- before
23 he was elected while he was running was the worst
24 period of time -- after my husband and I were
25 separated. Because I knew he had no reason to
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PageB1
1 protect me now. He doesn't want to; he's made it
2 clear, and Eric knows he cannot contact me because I
3 had sent him that e?mail. I was dating my
4 boyfriend, and every single time I would come home,
5 I would search my house first and just make sure
6 nobody was in my house, nobody was hiding and but
7 my boyfriend didn?t know he knew that something
8 had happened in my marriage. I told him -- because
9 he asked why was he so mean to me? And I said,
10 Well, I did hurt him. I cheated our marriage, and that was all he really knew at 3
12 this point. And he had let himself into my house -- 3
13 we had been dating for probably four or six months
14 at this point. My boyfriend let himself into my
15 house without me knowing. I'm calling his name,
16 calling his name. I?m looking around my house,
1? nobody was there. I come up the stairs, and it's
18 pitch black. And I walked into my bedroom, and when
19 I went to go switch on the light, he grabbed my
20 ankle trying to scare me, and I literally started
21 shaking, crying like I mean, freaking out --
22 which, of course. he was nice about it. He thought
23 this was going to be so funny. And, of course. it
24 really didn't hit him until he knew about this
25 whole situation after the election, because I could

Fhenm13002803376 Foc3HdH4m?H
HEAWNG EWQOE
Pagea3
1 Q. okay. All right. And so when you had
2 been you had known him for some time prior to all
3 of this beginning?
4 A. Correct.
5 Q. And you described that you had a lot going
6 on with your then husband and some different things,
7 and you indicated that Eric made you feel he had
8 made you feel how would you describe that?
9 A. You mean what was the benefit make you feel when he came into
11 the salon?
12 A. Oh, he I mean, he made me so the --
13 there are a couple of things. At this time, a big
14 issue in my marriage was that my husband was
15 extremely insecure. And as I stated he?s a
16 and -- so he's very emotional. And, to
17 me, Eric seemed like this very strong figure that
18 could take care of things, whereas, in my household,
19 I was the one who paid the billstook out the trash, I was the one cleaning 
21 whatever -- really did a lot of the stuff, whether
22 it was female or male aesociated. And Eric seemed
23 to me like a very strong person who knew what he
24 wanted, and he wanted me, and it just felt like 
25 somebody who would take care of me, I guess. 2

 

 



 

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Pages:
1 not quit crying for like a week, and finally he just
2 said, If you want to tell me something, you can tell
3 me. So he did know about it when this broke, but I
4 think he fully got it, why I freaked out to that
5 point. You know, because at that time especially
6 during the election, because I thought, he really
7 has a lot to lose, because he hasn?t gotten to the
8 place he wants to get yet, you know?
9 Q. Okay. which kind of leads into the next
10 question. When we were discussing your privacy
11 being invaded, did you ever feel that -- I think we
12 were talking about the situation when you were at
13 his house. But at any other time, did you feel that
14 your privacy was invaded -- and to the point where
15 what you're describing was fear, going through your
16 house, or that he drove by while you were sitting
17 outside reading. Did you ever feel the that that
18 was going on?
19 R. No. He lived in the area, and so he would
20 walk by the salon sometimes. And I worked right at
21 the window. To me, it just felt like he was
22 checking in, just to make sure I still had feelings
23 for him. It more just felt like that. I felt like
24 he was at ease when he could tell I had feelings for
25 him still.
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Page84
1 Q. So that was comfort to you?
2 A. It was comfort.
3 Q. All right. And so let's follow up on some
4 of the words you used to describe Eric. You said
5 that he was controlling, he was charismatic, and
6 that he was on a mission.
1 A. Correct.
8 9. Could you describe that a little bit more
9 as far as how he what caused you to feel that
10 way? What did he do, say; not say, not do?
11 A. Charismatic because he has a way of
12 looking at you in your eyes and while you?re
13 talking, paying attention to certain things that you
14 say and -- or that I would say. Even throughout
15 this -- in particular. when we were at the salon,
16 when he wasn't and on a mission, I would say it's
17 almost as if he gets a testosterone high and he
13 seems as thOugh that's his focus. He's no longer
19 caring and looking at you in your eyes and not
20 telling you things that make you feel close to him.
21 And controlling, the he would always stand very
22 close to me or whoever he was speaking to, shake
23 your hand very hard. He's a very -- it just felt
24 kind of intimidating sort of person. And he seemed
25 to just want to have all of the knowledge of
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Pageas
1 whatever was going on. So that type of control. 
2 Q. Okay. So when you were with him in those I
3 private situations, did any of these types or
4 descriptors fit any of the situations you were in
5 where you felt he was controlling, charismatic, on a
6 mission, any of those things?
7 A. When I would be alone with him -- there
8 were moments where I definitely felt as though he
9 cared about me, and I would see that charismatic,
10 loving guy, but, in general, it was more more of
11 a testosterone sort of high that I saw that would
12 get very -- very controlling, as far as what?s going i
13 to happen and what he wanted, and then afterwards, I
14 he would kind of -- that was kind of it.
15 Q. And you said at one point that you knew --
16 or it was like he knew what he was going to say.
17 Like he had maybe a script of this in his mind or --
18 A. Correct. It felt like that.
19 Q. Okay. Tell me a little bit more about
20 that.
21 A. Some of the things felt as though it
22 just wasn't what it was not how he normally
23 talked to me at all. So it was almost as if he was
24 in character he had stepped into a character, and
25 we were in some sort of play zone -- which maybe you
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1 do anything physical with him. So I think I was
2 just confused, kind of shocked. And I was curious
3 enough -- he likes me this much that he has
4 something planned for our workout? I don't know.
5 I I guess more than anything, confused.
6 Q. Okay. Did you feel like you were being
7 led into a situation?
8 A. I did. But at this point, not a bad
9 situation.
10 Q. Uh-huh.
11 A. More that he had a plan and like I
12 said, I think I really thought maybe he will, you
13 know, have some sort of sexy workout planned, which
14 is why -- because he said, Change your clothes into
15 these, and I said, What do you mean? And he said, I
16 went to take you through a workout, come on. Just
17 trust me. I want to make you feel good. And I just
18 feel like you haven't been treated good in so long.
19 So at this point, it was more
20 curiosity/confusion.
21 Q. okay. Uh?huh. And so the first situation
22 was where you were blindfolded and so forth, and
23 then you went back that night to ask that what?
24 A. I came back that day after work.
25 Q. The day. Uh-huh. 

 

 

 




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1 would be with if you had been with your partner for
2 a really long time or something. So it was just
3 odd. I don't know. Not normal talk, I guess.
4 Q. Okay.
5 A. Like, he knew what he was going to say
6 next. That's a good girl. You?re going to believe
7 that sort of thing.
8 Q. okay. When you went to his house the
9 first time, and as Representative Mitten asked,
10 you've already discussed the purse and the keys, and
11 then you said he had clothes. Were they there on
12 the cabinet?
13 A. They were sitting on his kitchen island.
14 Q. On the kitchen island. 50 it would
15 appear -- so that was planned to have those
16 available?
1? A. Yes.
18 Q. All right. So when this was all going on,
19 the frisking and the taking of your things and put
20 your clothes on, what was going through your mind at
21 that time?
22 A. I think it was shocked. I still really
23 thought he was perfect. He definitely knew -- I
24 know I had made it clear I had not cheated on my
25 husband before and that, you know, I didn't want to
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PageBB
A. To get my keys.
2 Q. And what was the conversation at that
3 point?
4 R. It was, What the heck happened? I'm so
5 angry with you. And that's when I said, You took a
6 picture of me. My husband doesn't even get pictures
1 of me. And that's when he explained, - I have
8 to protect myself, and you have to understand this.
9 You know, but I thought about you all day and I
10 feel, you know I erased the picture.
11 Q. Uh-huh.
12 a. That was when that conversation occurred.
13 Q. So you expressed that there were different
14 emotions going on during that time and certainly
15 during that first encounter, that there was a level
16 of concern, to whatever degree that might have been,
17 but then there were follow-up visits and
18 get-togethers.
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Why -- because you said you were angry at
21 him for the picture and so forth, so why would you
22 continue to have contact with him?
23 A. I've asked myself that so many times. I
24 think it comes down to a few things. One, I felt
25 really disgusted with myself that I allowed that
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Pe9e89
1 first time to happen. Really embarrassed that he i
2 thought of me as a whore. And so after my I told
3 my husband and he was clear that he did not want
4 anything to do with me. that he wanted to move into
5 an apartment, and when Eric came back in and he was 
6 normal and so kind to me, that felt so much better 
7 and it allowed me to just ignore any of those bad
3 feelings about myself, in particular. Because if I
9 thought he was this horrible person, I really felt
10 shameful of myself.
11 And so I think I just wanted to feel
12 better about it. I didn't want to think that he
13 thought of me as just a whore. I wanted to think
14 that he actually really liked me and wanted to have
15 a relationship with me of sorts.
16 Q. And was that your intent, too, to have a
1? relationship with him?
18 A. I think at that time I think -- I don?t
19 even know. I think just to feel better than
20 whatever I felt the day before. Because then I
21 would have -- we had chunks of time where we didn't
22 see each other where I did feel more like myself, I
23 started to feel better. And then when I would see
24 him, it was almost like this excitement would build
25 up, and then I would feel, you know, a ton of
ALARBIIHGKHONSERWCES
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Pa9091
1 dealing with things for the first time these past
2 two months that I never did before. I just pushed
3 them aside because it was too scary. I didn't want
4 to think about it. I didn't want to talk about it.
5 I just wanted it to go away, and then maybe it never
6 happened like that. And knowing that I'm in the
I situation and knowing that at this point, the only
8 parts that Eric has denied are the parts that were
9 hurtful. The other parts weren't traumatic to me at
10 all. You know, it was it was consensual, and
11 those parts were not traumatic. The parts that he
12 denies are the parts I'm finally dealing with and
13 going -- I feel sad for that person I was. That was
14 so vulnerable. I was so vulnerable. I just feel
15 really taken advantage of, I think -- and, also, by
16 my ex?husband, hugelykind of all around you.
18 A. Yeah.
19 Q. So when you say you were taken advantage
20 of, what do you mean by that?
21 A. So I think when you enter a situation 
22 whatever it is a lot of the times you enter it
23 assuming that that other person maybe in a
24 conversation or whatever it is you're doing -- you
25 assume that they're coming in with the same sort of

 

 

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Page9o

emotions again, and then I would feel awful and
2 disgusting and I hated myself and it was horrible.

3 And then I would start to feel better, and then he
4 would come in again -- you know, it was just such an
5 up and down. Because I didn't want to be involved

6 with somebody who was married. I didn't want to be
I having any feelings for him, in particular because I

8 was so embarrassed about the first encounter. He

9 basically made it clear that he felt like that I was
10 a thing to him.

11 Q. So during your discussion here today 
12 and, again, thank you, as everyone has thanked you
13 for doing this. And you became emotional during --
14 several times during this, and one of the
15 descriptors that you said that triggered the crying,
16 as I believe, was the embarrassment of that. What
1? are the other things that have triggered, just in
18 today, your being upset and crying? What are some
19 of the things that were going on -- those feelings?
20 A. So I?m angry that I'm in the middle of
21 this. I am -- of course, I?m upset with myself for
22 any of my involvement with him. In particular,
23 because he was married, but, also, because he didn't
24 share the same type of feelings. And, also, because
25 I was still technically married. But I'm also
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1 background that you have, and in my mind, I was

2 feeling that way. Maybe Eric has this same type of

3 feelings towards me. And that day in particular,

4 and even the other times when I was with him, I

5 don't think his intentions were to love me -- you

6 know, have mutual feelings towards me; I think it

7 was just really, I'm I'm horny and you're

8 vulnerable. So I think I felt taken advantage of,

9 as far as -- that's -- he got what he wanted, but I
10 obviously wasn?t getting what I wanted. And with my
11 ex'husband, just don't know all of his
12 intentions, other than the you know, having --

13 get sympathy and also getting revenge and -- you
14 know? I don't know.
15 Q. When you say your ex?husband was trying to
16 get revenge, is that in regards to you or to
l? Greitens?
18 A. I believe both.
19 Q. Both?
20 A. {Witness nods.)
21 Q. as now that this is all out, what are some
22 of the things that you're -- what concerns do you
23 have now, if you have any?
24 A. How will this affect my kids? Because it
25 has already. What's going to come of all of this,
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PageQ3
1 you know? What will people think of me that don?t
2 know me? I?ve had huge support with family and
3 friends and clients -- and that's the other thing,
4 too. Beforehand, I thought what will happen to all
5 of my clients? I have a huge client base, and I
6 love my clients, and a big part of why we love each
other is because I am I'm a very open book,
8 normally. This is the one thing I just kept in a
9 pit in my stomach and I never talk about this. And 
10 so far, that's actually been a pretty good my 2
11 clients have been pretty good to me, for sure. so a
12 now I think my fear is if this comes becomes 
13 public I'm in school full time. So far I don't 
14 think the students on campus know, but then how does
15 that affect my schooling? I only have one semester
16 left. Does that push me back? Luckily, I'm not as
17 fearful physically anymore, because I feel like
18 anybody would be crazy to hurt me because they would
19 know who it is, so that's one huge positive thing
20 that's happened.
21 9. Anything else, as far as concerns?
22 A. I can't think of anything.
23 MS. LAUER: Thank you very much, and I
24 appreciate the emotion that you have. And that's
25 okay.
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1 I said, Mom, I have this client who wrote this book, 
2 and he's just this, you know, great guy who has done 2
3 all of these wonderful things. And he overheard and
4 said, Who is this douchebag, what are you talking
5 about? Who is this person? Let me see that. And
6 he said, Nobody would give you this unless they're
hitting on you. And that was the start of the 
8 obsession with who is this person? Because I didn't 
9 speak like that about very many of my clients or -- 
10 you know? I mean, I spoke highly of people. but I 
11 guess he could sense that I thought this guy was i
12 really great. i
13 So when he discovered that that was the
14 phone number, he was definitely on to, what does
15 that mean, you know?
16 Q. From your prior testimony, it sounds like
17 you would characterize your husband as a very
18 suspicious man.
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. He would go through all of your personal
21 documents in your phone; is that correct?
22 h. Correct.
23 Q. Do you think he ever had you followed or
24 surveiled by either friends or professionals?
25 A. Yes.


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Pa9994
1 Thank you, Mr. Chair.
2 EXAMINATION
3 BY MR. AUSTIN:
4 Q. Ma'am, my name is Kevin Austin, and I?m a
5 state representative in District 136. I'll try not
6 to repeat questions we've already had, but I'm going
7 to bounce around a little bit, so if for some reason
8 we get out of context and you don't understand,
9 please tell me or your attorney and I'll rephrase or
10 go back.
11 A. Okay.
12 Q. So as I understand it, you first met Eric
13 in 2013; correct?
14 A. Correct.
15 Q. 50 between 2013 and through 2015; did you
16 ever talk about Eric either directly to your now
17 ex-husband or in iront of him?
18 A. Yes. So after he had given me -- I
19 believe to be the second book -- it could have been
20 the first book, my mom, who is an avid reader, I
21 showed her the book. My ex?husband was there at the
22 time. So we had been having marital issues for
23 about two and a half years prior to 2015. When this
24 happened, I showed my mom this book, and he was
25 over -- was listening to my conversation with her.
MARKS LITIGATION SERVICES
rls.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 31454451334
HEANNGIWZQON
Pagass
1 Q. Okay. Friends or a professional?
2 A. I would guess both.
3 Q. Okay.
4 A. He made a comment -- so when we got back
5 together, he made a comment that he had sent the
6 e?mail to Sheena, which is what I thought was the
1 case, that somebody had taken pictures of me going
8 in and out of the house. So somebody, meaning,
9 like, private investigator. But I never saw these,
10 I never 
11 Q. You never -- I'm sorry to interrupt you.
12 Go ahead.
13 A. No, you're fine.
14 Q. You never saw any documentation or
15 photographs or video at his surveillance evidence;
16 is that correct?
1? A. Correctthis would have been yeah, two and a half
24 years prior. I said, I want a divorce. I can't go
25 through this anymore. This is too many it's just
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1 too much- 
2 
3 We had been in marital counseling. made --
4 we maintained that counseling. and then that summer
5 before I mentioned we went on vacation. After we
6 got back from that vacation. I said. I can't do it.
7 I can't do anymore. So he said. Fine. I?January -- which is the reason I signed up for
13 school. That's something I had talked about for a
14 long time. I wanted to finish my degree. So I
15 signed up -- it was starting in January, and maybe a
16 week or two prior to that is when he started with
1? the big emotions againFine. That was January. February/March is when I
24 said. I just can't do it.
25 Q. I read in the transcript -- and I don't
mumnowsemcss
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1 A. Correct.
2 Q. And then later that evening, when you went
3 back and got your keys. you walked back again to the
4 salon to get your car?
5 A. Exactly.
6 Q. When you first went into the house on
7 3/21/2015. Eric had some clothes for you. Did you
8 ever see his phone at that point?
9 A. Not at that point.
10 Q. When was first time you saw his phone?
11 A. I don?t know. That?s a good Question.
12 I'm not sure.
13 Q. At some point. You went to the basement to
14 the exercise equipment?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. And at what point did he produce the tape
17 and the blindfold?
18 A. Right whenever we got downstairs.
19 Q. Were they laying on the table or something
20 or --
21 A. I believe there?s like a there was
22 like a workbench or a like a workout bench right
23 there. and that?s where he had that stuff. And then
24 there were rings hanging up. There were weights
25 behind I believe it was just right whenever we
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PageQB
1 know if you have access to this transcript. but I
2 read in the transcript of the recording that your
3 ex-husband made between you and him in the parking
4 lot of the grocery store -- I don't know if you?ve
5 seen it or not. but it mentions a man named?.
6 Who was 
1 A. That was our marital counselor.
Q. Did your husband see this - before you
9 and him went to see - for marital counseling?
10 A. No. We saw him just for marital
11 counseling. But he had seen him alone afterwards.
12 So we saw him together. - saw him alone a couple
13 of times after our separation. and then we saw him
14 still a few times together. even after we were
15 separated.
16 Q. Did your ex-huaband have a personal
relationship with this 
18 A. No.
19 Q. Going to the day of 3/21/2015. I still
20 don?t understand. How did you get to Eric's house?
21 Did you walk? Did you drive?
22 A. I walked. The - was about a block and
23 a half up the street from where he lived.
24 Q. So when you say you left your keys there.
25 you were you just walked back to the salon?

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P399100
1 came downstairs. it was sitting there. He didn't
2 carry it downstairs. I guess.
3 Q. Could you describe this tape a little bit
4 more. I think you said something about gauze tape.
5 A. It was kind of that stretchy athletic
6 tape.
1 Q. And was that something that if you applied
8 some force. you could rip your hands free. if you
9 wanted to?
10 A. Yes. I started to I couldn't really
11 get down myself because it was there was just a
12 lot of it or whatever. but with his help. I was able
13 to get it down. It wasn't sticky. I guess.
14 Q. Yeah. Because. you know. you think of
15 something like Duct tape. that would that?s
16 really hard to get that off your skin. But this
1? gauze tape -- I think I know what you?re talking
18 about.
19 So when you I think you said you
20 freaked out and said. No. enough. he immediately
21 stopped his behavior and helped you down from the
22 rings?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. That basement -- was it a walkout
25 basement?
MARIE 
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Hme1m
1 A. No.
2 Q. What was the lighting like down there?
3 A. It was dim.
4 Q. Do you remember if there were, like,
5 fluorescent lights like we have here or was it lamps
6 or 
7 A. Like a lightbulb.
8 Okay.
9 At least on at that time. It was dim.
10 Q. was there other exercise equipment in this
11 room?
12 A. Yes. There was. like, a rower machine.
13 Q. Was this exercise room or workout room,
14 was it like -- what I would call a great room part
15 of the basement, or was it in a separate room, or
16 how did. that --
1? A. It was right whenever you walked
18 downstairs. It was pretty much all of his exercise
19 stuff -- an unfinished basement.
20 Q. And at the point where -- as I read
21 through the transcript, you freaked out and said,
22 No, no, no and then before that, had you given Eric
23 any sort of indication, physically, verbally, or in
24 any way that you did not want to proceed?
25 A. No. I was silent.

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Page103
1 A. At that point -- probably both. Because I
2 know I kept opening and closing them throughout this
3 time because I was so curious because he had
4 something planned. But when he first put it on,
5 maybe my eyes were closed and then I just kept -- so .
6 it wasn't super tight. I guess, if you're asking 
7 that. 
3 Q. How did he bind the blindfold backhave some sort of clasp?
10 A. He tied it.
11 Q. Tied it. And at some point he stepped 
12 away from you physically, and what was the sequence? 
13 Flash, click, or simultaneous? I don't know. 2
14 A. I would say simultaneous. 
15 Q. And you testified you have never seen the 
16 photograph he took of you; correct?
17 A. Correct.
18 Q. And let me ask you this. Do you have any
19 reason to believe that this photograph was
20 transmitted in any manner that allowed access to
21 that photograph via the computer -- and I know it's
22 a long questionknow he had an iPhone, so if
24 it because I have an iPhone, too, so we could
25 iMessage or you know? And if he had icloud, yes.

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1 Q. And let me ask you this then: What was

2 the blindfold? What was it? A workout towel? What
believe to be like a

5 blindfold. I mean like a long strip of

6 something. It was a dark material. So it wasn't a
1 towel, it was an actual material.

8 Q. Do you know what kind of material it was?
9 A. I don't remember. It was nothing strapped
10 to your nothing that I remember specifically,

11 other than I know it was dark and that it was, you
12 know, a blindfold.

13 Q. If I have the order right, first he taped
14 your hands to the rings; correct?
15 A. Correct.

16 Q. And did you have -- were your feet on

17 anything stable?

18 A. The ground.

19 Q. okay. So your feet were able to touch the
20 ground? You weren't dangling?

21 A. Right. No.

22 Q. And then he put the blindfold around you?
23 A. Yes.

24 Q. When he put the blindfold around you, did
25 you leave your eyes Open or did you close your eyes?
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Page104
1 Or if he, you know, connected his phone to his
2 computer or something, yes.
3 Q. And did he have an iPhone? Is that what
4 you said?
5 A. He did.
6 Q. And that was what he had that day?
7 A. Yes.
3 Q. And he that -- you saw that in the
9 basement, that iPhone?
10 A. I would assume that would be the only
11 phone that he would have that was the only phone
12 that I was aware that he had in general at that
13 time.
14 Q. And you don't recall one way or the other
15 whether you saw it that very day in the basement?
16 A. Right. I just know that I heard and saw
17 the flash.
18 Q. And before 3/21/15, had either you or your
19 ex-husband had an extramarital affair?
20 A. No.
21 Q. Either before or after 3/21/15, had you
22 ever had -- had you yourself photographed yourself
23 in a state of partial or complete nudity?
24 A. No.
25 Q. Have you ever met a man named Roy Temple?
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A. No.
2 Q. Have you ever been contacted by anybody
3 from the 
4 A. No. No.
5 Q. Have you ever been contacted from anybody
6 that said they're from Intera, 
7 A. I don?t believe I can answer that
8 question.
9 Q. Well, let's --
10 MR. AUSTIN: Am I getting out of 
11 MR. BARNES: Here is my concern, is
12 there's -- if it relates to grand -- things that
13 went in front of a grand jury. I think that --
14 Counselor. are you concerned with grand
15 jury secrecy. without confirming or denying
16 testimony before a grand jury? So I 
11 HR. AUSTIN: I?ll just withdraw the
18 question.
19 MR. BARNES: I think the answer to that
20 question may be a crime in and of itself.
21 MR. AUSTIN: Well, let?s withdraw the
22 question.
23 Q. {By Mr. Austin) Part of your testimony 
24 was, My husband travels -- and I just didn't 
25 understand this -- I did not or did let him take
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Page107
1 Q. And that is all of the ladies that were at
2 that dinner?
3 A. Yes. I believe so.
4 Q. And when Representative Phillips was
5 asking you questions, you said Eric's attorney
6 reached out. Who was that, i? you know?
7 A. I don't know.
8 Q. It was attorney contact with your
9 attorney; right?
10 A. Correct.
11 Q. So the only conversation you would have
12 would be from what your attorney told you; correct? 2
13 A. Exactly. 
14 MR. BARNES: I would like to take a break.
15 recess was taken.)
16 {Exhibit No was marked for
17 identification.)
13 MR. BARNES: Back on the record.
19 Representative Austin.
20 Q. (By Mr. Austin} Ma'am, we have just come
21 back from a recess, and I've handed your attorney
22 what I've marked as Exhibit 1. And I'll just submit
23 to you that that's a transcript of a tape recording
24 made by your now ex-husband parking lot of a grocery store. Have you reviewed

 

 

 





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1 pictures of me?

2 A. Oh, I did not.

3 Q. Did not. Okay.

4 Who was the reporter that contacted you

5 and continued to contact you through -- when this

6 was -- came out?

1 A. Lauren Trager.

Q. After the election -- I think you

9 testified you were at dinner with six iriends. Who
10 were those friends?
11 A. did you want me to spell
12 this?
13 Q. Yesit's I can't remember her
11 name right now.
18 Q. That's all right.
19 A. She -- yeah.
20 Q. That?s ?our.
21 A. so there is another girl that?s in that
22 group. Her name is I had
23 told her, actually -- she's part of that group. She
24 happened to not be there that night. and so I
25 talked I discussed it with her as well.
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1 that transcript before?

2 A. $0 I started to read part the part where he took the picture, and I just

4 couldn't read it, so I have not read any of the rest
5 of it.

6 Q. Okay.

7 A. I've heard some of the things that are in
8 it and can recall some of that. too, but I have not
9 read it the rest of it.

10 Q. What page did you get to? Probably 17?

11 MS. MITTEN: There's an index at the back,
12 if that would help you.

13 A. Okay. Yes. I believe it was on 18 that I
14 stopped.

15 Q. (By Mr. Austin) Well -- and it's your

16 testimony that -- I mean, you?re emotionally unable
IT to go past that point. as far as reading the

18 transcript?

19 A. Yes. 

20 Q. If we can just, then limit it to pages 1
21 through 17, you weren't under oath then, but you are
22 now, and my question will be or is, are your

23 answers that you gave then truthful to the questions
24 posed then, and if not. what answers or portions of
25 answers were untruthrul?

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Page109
1 A. I don't believe I told him -- I should
2 having looked at this right before; I didn't.
3 Q. And we can take a break if you want to
4 read it. I mean 
5 A. I don't believe I told him that he patted
6 me down.
7 Q. And there may have been some omissions,
but what you did say was true?
9 A. Oh. Oh. Oh, yes.
10 Q. Is that okay to say?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. There were omissions, but what you did say
13 was truthful in response to the questions posed?
14 Yes.
15 Q. Pages 1 through 17?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Okay.
18 MR. AUSTIN: That's all I have.
19 MR. BARNES: Representative Rhoads.
20 EXAMINATION
21 BY MR. RHOADS:
22 Q. Ma?am. my name is Shawn Rhoads. I want to
23 ask you some questions -- and it's going to get a
24 little graphic. I'm not trying to be mean to you, I
25 just -- we have to have some clarification on a

malariaus H1009: 1.000.200.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334
HEAMNG swoon
Pagoi?
1 put pants on.
2 Q. Okay. So you did that?
3 A. I did that.
4 Q. So all that you were wearing was the
5 T-shirt that he provided and the pajama pants that
6 he also provided: correct?
7 A. Correct.
8 Q. So at that point in time -- and maybe you
9 said earlier and I didn't catch it, but what were
10 your thoughts that his intentions were going to be?
11 A. I thought this was going to be some sort
12 of. like. sexy workout. I knew he he had asked
13 if I worked out that morning. I knew he -- he said
14 he had this idea that -- something that would be 
15 make me feel really good and I did work out. because
16 he wanted to take me through a workout. And at this
1? point I thought -- we hadn't worked out together
18 ever. so I thought. Oh. maybe it'll be some sort
19 of I don't know -- sexy workout.
20 Q. okay. At that time were you okay with a
21 normal sexual encounter with him if he said. Hey. I
22 just want to have sex in the basement?
23 A. No.
24 Q. Then I want to go forward to the incidents
25 when you were at his house again -- and forgive me,

 

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1 couple of things. And I want to go back to the
2 day the first encounter when you went to his
3 house that morning and where you came in and where
4 he took your purse and keys and looked through all
5 of this stuff.
6 So you come in the house. he takes your
purse, your keys. he looks through it and puts it
3 back in there. and then he tells you to change into
9 these clothes that he provided for you there:
10 correct?
11 A. Correct.
12 Q. What were you wearing before and where
13 did you go to change?
14 A. I was wearing I would have been wearing
15 black pants and a black T-shirt for work.
16 Q. Okay.
1? A. I was dressed in work clotheshas. like. a very small bathroom right by
19 his kitchen, so I went into there and changed in
20 that room.
21 Q. So were you wearing undergarments
22 underneath those clothes?
23 A. Underneath my clothes?
24 Q. Yes.
25 A. But he told me to take off everything and

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Paos?a
I don't know the date when there was alleged 
2 that you said he slapped you.
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. okay. So you go in the house -- and I'm
5 just making sure I?m correctspare bedroom; correct?
I A. Correct.
8 Q. Okay. end were you clothed, unolothed --
9 help me through that.
10 A. I believe at this time we were at least
11 partially unclothed. I know there was sexual
12 activity taking place. I know when I got there. we
13 kissed and we talked a little bit, and then he was
14 like, Come upstairs with me. And I know it was
15 sexual in nature at this point. So I believe that
16 at least both of us were partially nude.
11 Q. Okay. Did he take your clothes off or did
18 you take his clothes off or did you take your own
19 clothes oft. or how did that happen?
20 A. I don't recall.
21 Q. okay. And by "partially nude," can you
22 clarify for us how that was?
23 A. When he slapped me. I just remember being
24 bare at the top.
25 Q. Okay. Okay. So let's go to that. So
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1 were you sitting on the bed. laying where were you in relation to him and him in 
3 relation to you when that happened? i
4 A. He was standing up, and I was kind of
5 sitting laying back like this {indicating} on the
6 bed.
7 Q. okay. okay.
8 A. So he was standing in front of me.
9 Q. Okay. And I?m going to bounce around a
10 little bit here, I apologize. So -- because, to me,
11 there's a question when you're -- your ex-husband
12 e-mailed Eric's wife and said, you know, she's in
13 your house or whatever the e-mail said -- or he --
14 yeah -- and you think that someone was following
15 you. So would your husband follow you around
16 periodically or 
1? A. Yes. 50 he worked works downtown, and
18 there were multiple times that either I or coworkers
19 would see him driving by the salon.
20 Q. Gotcha.
21 A. Where he didn't have to.
22 Q. So but you walked from your business --
23 your place of business to that house; correct?
24 A. Correct.
25 Q. So there wouldn't be like you had a long

umnuah?sus Phone:t8002803375 Faca?ha441334
HEANNG $1203
Fags?s
1 met me there. and he said. I think you can leave.
2 but I'm going to make sure. So when I left. the car
3 was waiting across the street from me, tried to
4 follow me, but he got behind and didn't allow him
5 to, so I was and then I went to my mom's. 
6 Q. was he on duty -- like. a uniform police 
7 officer or -- 
8 A. No. Off duty. Just acting as a friend.
9 Q. Just a friend helping you?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. So what I?m gathering is -- and make sure
12 that I'm right is -- in this relationship with
13 Eric Greitens, he was wanting a physical
14 relationship and you were wanting more than that;
15 correct?
16 A. Correct.
17 Q. and that would have been your frustration
18 with kind of how things went down?
19 A. Yes. And, also. that I didn't this was
20 really just with myself. I didn't feel like I was
21 acting in ways that I wouldn?t I didn't feel like
22 in control of my own 
23 Q. Sure.
24 A. -- feelings and thoughts and actions the
25 way that I typically would be. so 

 

 

 



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1 drive where somebody would follow you through town
2 or anything like that?
3 A. Correct.
4 Q. Do you think anybody is following you now
5 because this has all come out, that people are
6 following you around?
7 A. I've only positively known of one instance
8 when I left work. When I got on the highway, I
9 noticed that there was this same car behind me that
10 was behind me right whenever I left work, and this
11 would have been probably a week and a half after the
12 news brokeand once I got there, I noticed
14 this car was definitely still there, so I'm going to
15 pretend like I'm getting off my exit and get back on
16 the highway and see if they do that. If they do, I
1? know for sure they're following me. When that
18 happened, they did that, so I right then called a
19 friend of mine who is in law enforcement and said.
20 I'm almost positive this person is following me. So
21 he directed me back to I essentially got back on
22 the highway, drove back east. This person followed
from to
24 I went inside a Walgreens
25 and waited for the car to leave. The friend of mine
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1 Q. And I'm sorry. I'm backing up. Let?s go
2 back to the incidents with the slap. You said
3 afterwards you talked. Do you recall what you
4 talked about and how long were you there after that?
5 A. The only thing I remember for sure is that
6 we talked about his what was it like being in the
7 Navy and did he feel like that affected him and,
8 really. just talked mainly about that. Maybe I
9 wasn't there a super long time afterwards. I don't
10 know.
11 Q. Is there anything that anybody has not
12 asked you that you feel like we need to know?
13 Because I realise -- and I -- I sympathize with you
14 when you say you don?t want your kids involved with
15 this. And what I'm trying to get at was. if there
16 was no angry ex-husband, there was no reportings,
11 where do you think that we would be right now?
18 would this be an issue?
19 A. I don?t I'm not sure. That's a great
20 question, because -- I keep thinking. had I maybe
21 had I not told - I know for sure I would have
22 felt very differently immediately about what
23 happened on March 2lst. Because the second I told
24 him, it became his thing, and I was afraid of him
25 and what he would do with it. I really didn't even

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1 process it.
2 So would I have eventually told somebody?
3 Possibly. But I also didn?t want to hurt anybody,
4 too, so that 
5 Q. I understand. And I see where you're
6 coming from with your business and with -- you know,
7 you don't want to damage those things. And I
8 apologize that you're in the middle of this. I
9 appreciate your cooperativeness, but, again, I just
10 want to give you the opportunity, if there?s
11 anything somebody hasn't asked that you feel like is
12 pertinent to what we?re doing, we'd love to hear,
13 because you?ve been answering questions and not gave
14 us a free thought.
15 You can come back to that if you want, if
16 you want to discuss that.
11 113.?: Okay.
18 MR. BARNES: If you want -- let's finish
19 our questioning, because he asked you something that
20 you probably haven't even thought of.
21 MS. -: Right. I haven't.
22 MR. BARNES: So if you -- we?ll finish our
23 questions and then give you a short break, if you
24 want to answer that question 
25 MR. RHOADS: Well and Representative

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1 A. Not that I recall.
2 Q. Okay. Did you consent to that?
3 A. No.
4 Q. Okay. Then the second time was a slap on
5 the face: is that correct?
6 A. Correct.
7 Q. And did that leave a mark?
8 A. Not that I recall.
9 0. Okay. Could you describe that a little
10 bit more? Do you think -- you said it was open
ll handed, I think: is that correct?
12 A. Correct. Meaning it could have left a red
13 mark right away, I guess. It was dark and at night
14 and we were alone in a room. Did it leave anything
15 later? No. It was just jarring. It wasn't sweet
16 and gentle: it was forceful. .
17 Q. okay. And then the third time. 
18 A. The third time might have actually left a 
19 mark. I know that it actually hurt, and I know that
20 I actually was really scared and sad when that
21 happened. The only reason why I say it might have
22 actually left a mark is because I can remember
23 afterwards looking in a mirror -- so it was only
24 maybe a week and a half, two week, tops, later that
25 my husband and I were back together of sorts at


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1 Austin took about half of my questions I have, so --
2 because he seen them, I think, and that?s why he was
3 trying to do.
4 Thank you, Chairman.
5 EXAMI NAT I ON
6 BY MR. PIERSON:
7 Q. Good morning. I'm Tommie Pierson, Jr.
8 state representative of the 66th district in
9 St. Louis County, St. Louis City. And I, too, will
10 kind of have some questions that may not be in
11 chronological order. The first one is --
12 apparently, he -- there was so Eric hit you
13 physically?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. How many times do you recall him hitting
16 you physically?
1? A. Well, the first time he spanked me
13 multiple times, but where I actually felt kind of
19 scared of -- what is he I guess I could say it
20 was more physical was the two times, though. The
21 one time where he slapped me in the face and the
22 other time where he slapped me and pushed me.
23 Q. okay. So the spanking, did it leave any
24 mark? Was there any welt or anything or that
25 nature?
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Page120
1 least considering it. I remember looking in the
2 mirror and thinking, Can he see anything? So -- I
3 think that there's probably a good chance that there
4 was something there. I didn't take pictures of it.
5 Q. Did your husband make any comments
6 about --
7 A. Not that I remember. Not that I remember.
8 Q. And that last time, can you talk a little
9 bit about that situation, kind of what led up to
10 that and what happened subsequently?
11 A. Up until that point, the that
12 encounter like I said, we had exercised
l3 earlier -- or that same morning, and then it turned
14 sexual in nature, that was consensual. You know, I
15 was nude at this point. And I couldn't see him. so
16 I didn?t know what was on his face. He was behind
17 me. And I like I saidhave intercourse during this period of time we
19 never did. But he was mimicking that, of sorts,
20 behind me, and so I just remember him, like, hitting
21 and shoving me, and it felt out of nowhere as if,
22 like, all of the sudden you just got -- I don't even
23 know. I don't know. Because it was so shocking to
24 me and it made me fall on the ground -- kind of on
25 my face and on my side a little bit and just made me
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Pagetm
1 start crying. I just know it was really i
2 embarrassing and confusing. 
3 Q. How would you describe, I guess, the 
4 source of the crime -- was it physical in nature? .
5 Was it emotional in nature?
6 A. I would say both at that that time, in
particular. Because it actually hurt, and. also 
8 also, it was embarrassing. I don't know what
9 happened. It was just kind of a bizarre thing to
10 happen, I guess.
11 Q. The picture that was taken, did any
12 discussion ever occur about the picture after -- is
13 it the let of March?
14 A. Not that I recall. I only recall him
15 asking me -- like. each time I did his hair in
16 particular, at the salon, he would say. You haven't
11 told anybody. have you? It was more that checking
18 in to make sure I hadn't said anything. But I don't
19 remember him bringing up the picture again after
20 that first day. Probably knowing it was -- I mean.
21 I kind of freaked out. so I don't know if he knew,
22 let's just not go there I don't know. But we 
23 really didn't discuss it after that. 
24 Q. very good. So you never brought up the 
25 picture, either; is that correct?

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1 just finished shampooing his hair. but he was still
2 laying back in the shampoo bowl. kind of looking up
3 at me. And at first I just ignored it. I was
4 thinking I think I'm picturing something that's
5 not really happening. and I didn't look down. And
6 then once he got up to my crotch, I stepped back and
1 said, What are you doing? And then that's whenever
8 he looked up at me like. I don't know. And at that
9 point I think it was just shock. because -- even
10 though I had had definitely somewhat of this crush
11 on him, I never pictured that happening. So I think
12 it was just shock.
13 Q. Do you recall anyone else being in the
14 room when that happened?
15 A. A coworker was in the roomthe shampoo area. She was she worked
11 right next to me at that time at our actual hair
18 station. and so she was back there. so she did
19 not see that happen.
20 Q. Okay.
21 A. I told two of my coworkers that day that
22 that happenedthe ones who I
23 told.
24 Q. So there are a couple of coworkers who i
25 were made aware or' that incident? 

 

 

 

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1 A. No.
2 Q. Okay. Okay.
3 In the time that you-all worked together,
4 did you-all share any meals or drinks or anything of
5 that nature?
6 A. He does not drink at all. so it was never
7 like that. I remember that morning I believe it
8 might have been that last morning because that
9 was the time that we worked out together. He made a
10 smoothie that was -- like, as I was leaving. he made
11 a smoothie.
12 Q. okay.
13 A. That's all I remember.
14 Q. On 3/15 you were -- I believe you
15 described doing his hair and shampooing his hair at
16 the salon.
l? A. Yes. This would have been earlier or.
18 like, maybe a week prior to that, yes.
19 Q. okay. And I believe that was or would
20 you agree that that was the first time where he
21 touched you in a way that startled you?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. And what was your reaction when that
24 happened?
25 A. So I was standing up I had actually
ALARBIIHGKUONSERWCES
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EWQOE
P11911124
1 A. Yes.
2 Do we know who these individuals are?
3 A. One of them is -. who I mentioned.
4 and another one is a -- the friend that I was saying
5 is very close to me but I didn't tell anything until
6 this came out and she called me that night. Her
7 name is Her reaction was so angry
8 and ticked off at just that. that I felt
9 uncomfortable telling her anything else after that.
10 so 
11 Q. In the course of your discussions with
12 Eric, did he ever mention The Mission Continues?
13 A. Definitely throughout the times whenever I
14 cut his hair. 0h, definitely. That was also a big
15 draw to him, that he had started this nonprofit that
16 helped veterans and 
11 Q. But, subsequently, that was not a topic of
18 discussion, it was specific or relegated to times in
19 the salon?
20 A. Correct. When yes. When I was alone
21 with him, it was not -- he wasn?t as forthcoming
22 with discussing things. Like I said. it felt a
23 little more like he was on a mission.
24 Q, Was there any discussions in relationship
25 to any campaign-related issues?
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Page125
A. other than I when that person
2 e-mailed him -- being my husband -- him mentioning
3 that he thought it was Democratic operatives that
4 lived in his neighborhood that he felt like were
5 always watching him, I know when I came back that
6 first time, that was actually a question I asked 
1 him, was, Why did you switch parties? I know that I 
8 asked him that, because I just remember that -- i
9 because he asked if I had any questions for him,
10 because I thought we were going to have a
11 discussion. Other than that, I don?t remember 
12 oh, except for he knew that I did Chris Koster's
13 hair. And so he didn't ask about any specifics
14 about him. just, What do you think about him?
15 So other than that, not really. It
16 wasn't -- I?m not a very political person,
1? typically, so that wouldn't have been something we
18 would have discussed; it was more. What type of
19 charities are you working with? What did you -- it
20 was more along the lines of that.
21 Q. So you described Chris Roster as kind of a
22 father figure. Can you describe that relationship a
23 little more?
24 A. Yes. I mean, he had been going to a
25 friend of mine up until -- I didn?t start doing his

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Page127
1 seemed very planned. Would you agree with that?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. In your subsequent encounters with Eric,
4 did those seem planned as well or 
5 A. Not like the first time. No. The other
6 times seemed a little more just I don't know. I
didn't feel like I was living a script out, no.
8 Q. If Eric asked you to meet with him now,
9 would you go?
10 A. Positively not alone. with my attorney
11 and his attorney, possibly. but I have no clue what
12 would come of that.
13 Q. How do you deal with stress -- so this was
14 a stressful time during this period. How would you
15 say you deal with stress?
16 A. $0 I had just started CrossFit that
1? January before no, no, no, it was that August,
18 too. During this time, I just weight lifted a lot.
19 I ended up injuring my back because I wasn't
20 sleeping very much, I was just exercising and I
21 read -- I was still reading during this time. I was
22 seeing a counselor on my own. I switched to a
23 personal counselor right after the March I want
24 to say it was sometime in April, I started seeing
25 her. And I was still reading. I know I read a lot

 

 

 

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Page126

1 hair until maybe late 2014, possibly, early 2015.

2 Anyways, my coworker moved to New York, and then he
3 started going to me. I knew he was a client of the
4 salon before that, and, in general, he would ask me
5 what was going on in my life and kind of give he

6 likes -- or he liked to give advice as to what's
1 going on with school or what's going on with he

3 knew I was separated with my husband. We did not

9 discuss anything throughout the election period, in
10 particular, after Eric was not my client. He didn't
11 bring it up. I didn't bring it up. We just didn't
12 discuss that.

13 Q. So there was no discussion of Eric in your
14 conversations with Chris Kbster?
15 A. Not -- when they first when I first
16 knew that he was running as well, Eric was still my
1? client at that time, and I knew that -- Chris knew
18 that he was my client as well, and I?m sure he asked
19 the same question you know, What did you think of
20 this guy? That was pretty much it. Both of them
21 were pretty good about not asking me anything that
22 would make me feel uncomfortable. He didn't really
23 ask anything else in regards to Eric, other than
24 that.
25 Q. And, you know, the incident on 3/21, it
ALARIS SERVICE
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HEAMNGINWEOB
Pencils

of self-help books during this period of time.

2 Definitely exercising was a huge thing.

3 MR. PIERSON: Thank you. Thank you for

4 your time and your being here today.

5 MR. BARNES: Thank you. I have a few more

6 questions.

RE-EXAMINRTION

8 BY MR. BARNES:

9 Q. were you afraid to ask about the picture?
10 A. Yes. I just didn't want to bring it up at
11 all. So, A, I didn't want to remind him of it. I
12 didn?t want to remind myself of it. I really just
13 wanted to pretend like it didn't happen.

14 Q. Did -- the time that you described as
15 being slapped when you were in the spare bedroom,
16 did that cause physical pain?
17 A. More like a stinging -- it didn't make me
18 cry. It wasn't like a, Oh. my gosh, this is
19 absolutely horribly painful, it was more of a
20 stinging shock.
21 Q. The last sexual encounter where you
22 described getting hit, do you feel that that was a
23 punch or a slaphe, like, roughly, like,
25 slapped and grabbed me and shoved me. So I don't

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Page129
I know.
2 Q. You testified earlier that you attempted
3 to look in the mirror.
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. How -- approximately how many days after
6 was that?
7 A. Well. I'm sure I did right away -- you
8 know. a day or two after. but I know that the
9 memory that I have is after I had gone to the
10 mediator with - I'm thinking. If he knows this
11 or if he sees this. he's going to flip out. So that
12 had to have been a week later.
13 Q. So a week later. you're looking in the
14 mirror to see if there's a mark?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. was it still achy or painful at that point
17 in time when you're looking for the mark?
18 A. In that direct area. yes.
19 Q. I want to go back to March 21st as well.
20 And you testified that Eric was kissing you lot
21 me -- after -- you testified that you started
22 freaking out as Eric was kissing you and coming down
23 the front of your body. Yes?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And you freaked out. and he took you and
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Pageth
I walked me up and was saying. - just calm down.
2 calm down. it's okay. it?s going to be okay. And
3 then laid me down -- kind of laid down with me like
4 I was a little doll or something.
5 Q. Okay. And when you were laying down.
6 where was he?
7 Like. laying next to me.
3 Q. Laying next to you face to face?
9 A. Face to face -- at this point. from what
10 I what I'm picturing so I don't know if he
11 started behind me I know that he was laying face
12 to face with me.
13 Q. okay. And were you still crying?
14 A. I was crying so hard. yeah.
15 Q. Were you naked at that point in time?
16 A. Yes.
17 Did he have a shirt on?
18 A. I believe so. at this point.
19 Q. Did he have pants on?
20 A. Yes. At this point.
21 Q. Did you unzip his pantsunzip his pants?
24 A. He unzipped his pants.
25 Q. While you were crying?

 

 

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untied the gauze strips: correct?

2 A. Correct.

3 Q. Were you crying at that point?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. And describe the emotions that you had at
6 that point in time.

7 A. I was definitely fearful. I was so

8 embarrassed and ashamed. because I really felt like
9 a whore because this
10 position before we've even kissed. I felt really
11 used. I felt like what the who are you? I think
12 it was the thing that just kept playing through my
13 mind is. who are you? What is this? What is this?
14 Oh. my God. where am Get me out of here --
15 because I just kept saying. Get me out of here. I'm
16 not ready for this. It was also. too. that feeling
of. I came here not wanting to do anything --
18 nothing.
19 Q. Did you start walking towards the door?
20 A. Yeah. I well. to go upstairs. There's
21 not like a door that closes. but. yeah. I started
22 walking towards the door. and that?s when he just.
23 like. enveloped me -- that's a good word. Because
24 it wasn?t as if he. like. threw me around. He
25 literally just kind of bear-hugged me and literally

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1 A. While I was crying.

2 Q. And laying on the floor next to him?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. And what did he do after he unzipped his

5 pants?

6 A. He kind of pulled them down and pulled his
7 penis out.

8 Q. Okay. And -- I?m sorry. These are

9 difficult questions. In relation to your face. how
10 far away?

11 A. Max. 6 inches or something. Close the one who put his penis in

13 that position?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. Were you still crying at that point?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. Did you feel afraid to leave?

18 A. No. Not at this point. I feel like he

19 hadn't gotten what he wanted. It was just -- he was
20 still obviously turned on.

21 Q. would you say you were under duress?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. Did you feel like you had another choice
24 if you were going to get out of that basement?

25 A. Not at that point.

ALARIS SERVICES
malarlaua Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: MMBEH

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Ploe??
1 Q. And after feeling you had no other choice
2 at that point in time, is that when there was oral
3 sex?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. The last time you were hit from behind, I
6 want to make sure -- was it your right hip and --
7 A. Yes. My memory is that I kind of fell
3 into, like -- kind of more into my left, and that it
9 was on my right side.
10 Q. Okay. what?s the basement floor like?
11 A. Just a concrete basement floor.
12 Q. I'm sorry. Say --
13 A. We exercised in the basement. so this
14 would have been the last time. And it was after we
15 exercised, so we were still in the basement at this 3
16 point. 
11 Q. (By Mr. Barnes) Okay.
18 MR. BARNES: Okay. I have no further 5
19 questions. 
20 EXAMINATION 
21 BY MR. AUSTIN:
22 Q. Just a couple more questions. 
23 The basement floor is concrete?
24 Yes.
25 Q. There's no rugs or carpeting or anything,

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Page135
1 moment?
2 HR. SIHPSON: I would. And before we get
3 that far and if this isn't the proper time to do
4 so, please let me know. The transcript that you put
5 in as an exhibit, out of respect for my client, I
6 would like to request that any identifying
1 information between her, her ex-husband or anybody
8 else that would lead back to who she is be redacted.
9 I'm am well aware of the potential that this may
10 become public at some point and would like to really
11 redact that. Frankly, anything in this proceedings
12 that would identify her specifically, I would ask
13 for that courtesy from this panel.
14 MR. BARNES: You will certainly have that
15 courtesy.
16 So let's take a five-minute break.
1? In recess was taken.)
18 MR. BARNES: And so we -- do you want to
19 make a final statement, please feel free really just wanted to say a
21 couple of things, which is, one, thank you for
22 clearing up the rumors that are out there, because
23 that's been one of the most difficult things is
24 hearing them and knowing I've taken the position
25 to truly try to not involve my children as much as

 

 

 

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1 it's just concrete?
2 A. Over where the exercise area was, there
3 was some -- the squishy mat.
4 Q. Where you were hit the third time, you
5 were on concrete at that point?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Let me back up a little bit. You said
8 that -- this was before, that your husband e-mailed
9 Eric's wife. Do you know that for sure, or is that
10 something you're supposing, knowing your husband?
11 A. He told me after we were back together.
12 Q. okay.
13 MR. AUSTIN: That's all I have.
14 MR. BARNES: Okay. If you want to make a
15 statement, you can. If you want to take a minute to
16 collect your thoughts and -- tell me if you want to
11 take a five?minute break, collect your thoughts, and
18 make a statement or -- really, it's up to you. I 
19 you know, I think Representative Rhoads had a very
20 good question, and he kind of caught you off guard
21 after having -- we?re three hours into a barrage of
22 questions for you from seven separate people, and so
23 I think it?s fair to let you collect your thoughts
24 before you make such a statement.
25 So do you want to take a break just for a
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Page136
1 possible, therefore, it is kind of difficult to hear
2 those things and know I don't have a voice. So I do
3 appreciate that. And, also, the that you
4 have taken to make this private, and I really do
5 appreciate that.
6 I really think you guys covered most of
I the things that I felt and appreciate you for being
8 understanding, because I did not like that person at
9 that time, which is why I'm so emotional. If I
10 liked her, I could tell you guys, He's a jerk and
11 he's a jerk, and I did nothing. So I appreciate
12 your understanding. And it's really hard for me to
13 be vulnerable in front of people I don't know, as
14 opposed to my friends and family, who know that that
15 wasn't me; I was going through a crazy period of
16 time. So I really do appreciate it, because it does
1? help me -- or at least you aren't throwing stones at
18 me if you guys hate me. But thank you.
19 That's it.
20 MR. BARNES: You guys will be excused, and
21 we?ll talk about future business of the committee.
22 MR. SIMPSON: Sure.
23 MR. BARNES: Thank you so much.
24 I want to get with you on contact
25 information for the people identified with whom you
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1 spoke. I don't want you to read their phone numbers

2 into the record. but I want to get that contact

3 information. 3

4 MR. SIMPSON: And whether you want to do 

5 it I?ll let you decide. We have provided an

6 answer to some requests for production. As of

7 yesterday. after I got -- after I left my office, I

3 came into the possession of another document that

9 you probably want. If you want it today, you can
10 have it. but I need a photocopy because I have the
11 original.

12 MR. BARNES: We can arrange for that here.
13 There's got to be a copy machine somewhere in this
14 building. 50 if you want to ask one of the officers
15 outside. I'm confident they'll make a copy.

16 So we'll excuse you. Thank you for being
1? here today.
18 MR. BARNES: Let's go off the record for
19 just a moment.
20 [Discussion off the record.)
21 MR. BARNES: Friday at oneidentified as a witness in
23 - answers to our requests to documents.
24 After that. does the committee believe 
25 MS. LRUER: Will that be here?
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1 11:30 a.m.

2 MS. MITTBN: okay. 0: 3:00 p.m.

3 MR. BARNES: 0r 3:00 p.m.

4 Does anyone disagree to that idea?

5 All of those in favor say. aye.

6 (Unanimous "Rye"1

MR. BARNES: In failure of Friday. I'll

8 ask his lawyer about Monday availability.

9 MR. AUSTIN: Time out. You said earlier?
10 Well. how is this . going to take very long? If
11 he cools his heels out there for an hour. that?s not
12 our problem.

13 MS. MITTEN: We could do it at two.

14 MR. BARNES: So do you want me to try

15 three first?

16 MR. AUSTIN: I prefer 11:30 first.

1? MS. MITTEN: Either way. Just see what we
13 can do.

19 MS. LAUER: Is it okay if they see each
20 other?

21 MR. BARNES: 11:30 or two?

22 MS. MITTEN: Or threethree. I just want to get it out of the way Friday
24 if he can.

25 MR. BARNES: Okay. And I want to take a

 

 

 

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1 MR. BARNES: That will be here.
2 Does the committee believe we need
3 here?
4 MR. RHORDS: I do. I feel like it puts
5 the pieces of the puzzle together.
6 MR. BARNES: Do we want to see if we can
1 get him for next Monday?
8 Ms. MITTEN: Can we do 3:00 p.m. on
9 Friday?
10 MR. RHOADS: I'm afraid that conversation
11 is going to take hours and hours.
12 MS. MITTEN: Why should that take hours.
13 though? This is four hours. what do we need to get
14 from- Authentication.
15 MR. RHOADS: I'm afraid there'll be a
16 little game played with his attorney on. Well, we
1? don?t want to answer that. we're going to --
18 MS. MITTEN: Fine. He can leave.
19 MR. RHOADS: Regroup and go and then --
20 MS. MITTEN: I?m just thinking -- I don?t
21 know what we need from-
22 Can we go off the record for a second?
23 {Discussion off the record.}
24 MR. BARNES: I move that we attempt to get
25 the testimony of this Friday at
ALANSLITIGATION SERVICES
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HEAHNG annexe
P398140
1 roll call vote to close Friday's hearing.
2 So the motion on the floor here is to
3 close Friday's hearing.
4 All of those in favor. voice. yes.
5 Mr. Secretary. please call roll.
5 MR. CURCHIN: Representative Barnes.
7 MR. BARNES: Rye.
8 MR. CURCHIN: Representative Phillips.
9 MR. PHILLIPS: Aye.
10 MR. CURCHIN: Representative Mitten.
11 MS. MITTEN: Rye.
12 MR. CURCHIN: Representative Lauer.
13 MS. LAUER: Aye.
14 MR. CURCHIN: Representative Austin.
15 MR. AUSTIN: Rye.
16 MR. CURCHIN: Representative Rhoads.
17 MR. RHOADS: Aye.
18 MR. CURCHIN: Representative Pierson.
19 MR. PIERSON: Aye.
20 MR. BARNES: The vote is seven aye; zero
21 no to close Friday's hearing. It know everybody is
22 getting excited.
23 We have eight additional witnesses
24 identified. I believe. beyond - --
25 is everyone in agreement we should attempt to her
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1 testimony.
2 Is that a yes all around?
3 Yes all around. is
4 another. Is everyone in agreement?
5 MS. LAUER: She was at the dinner?
6 MR. BARNES: Yeah.
Is everyone in agreement
8 on her?
9 Okay. was identified as a
10 lawyer. I would -- I don't want to try to breach
11 anyone's attorney?client privilege. Is everyone in
12 agreement that we?re not going to call her as a
13 witness?
14 MS. MITTEN: I agree.
15 MR. PIERSON: With her. she seemed like
16 she wanted to get some information from- order.-
11 is that correct? Did that breach -- so that would
18 be a breach if we talked to her 
19 MR. BARNES: For -, yes. -
20 - was a lawyer for Ms. and as a
21 result, I do not 
22 MR. PIERSON: 
23 MR. BARNES: Lauren Trager was the
24 reporter.
25 Does anyone believe we should have the
ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
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P390143
1 resources from The Mission Continues private grants. 
2 They may arrive today. We subpoenaed those
3 documents. They may arrive today. His lawyer has
4 been in contact with our counsel and should have
5 them soon. and when we do, we will spread the word
6 that they have arrived. They will be in the chief
7 clerk's office with our folders that we're going to 
8 turn into binders. The idea is everyone to have a 
9 binder in there. Let's leave it in there. mainly -- a
10 because I don't even-trust myself to take documents 
11 outside and then take notes in there. i
12 MR. AUSTIN: And we can have access to 
13 those binders --
14 MS. MITTEN: I believe Representative
15 Barnes is going to try to get access to the office
16 so that even after hours we'll have the ability to
force - to let us in.
13 MR. BARNES: Mr. Curchin -- Alex has that
19 ability. so he's on permanent call.
20 MS. MITTEN: Lovely.
21 So. Mr. Chair. Mr. Simpson indicated that
22 documents have already been produced.
23 MR. BARNES: I believe he said they were
24 mailed well, he told me in the hallway they have
25 been mailed. He said we?ve sent them.

 

 

 

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1 reporter?
2 MS. HITTEN: No.
3 MR. BARNES: okay. Then there were the
4 women who were at the dinner. -
-1 and 
6 -. And then there was. essentially. I think
7 and I heard a name. I
8 think that I want everybody to think about
9 whether we need to call them after having spoken
10 with these other witnesses.
11 MR. RHOADS: Mr. Chairman, I?m afraid
12 there'll be very limited information with these
13 women. They were in public talking about this
14 incident. I doubt she went into detail about
15 everything in a restaurant with six other women.
16 MR. BARNES: That's that's fair. And I
17 think these other witnesses that we've already
18 identified -- we need to talk to them first before
19 making this decision. but I wanted to put that out
20 there as something for people to think about. even
21 as we were getting the next round of testimony.
22 Ms. LAUER: Sure.
23 MR. BARNES: Okay. The other thing is we
24 should be receiving documents soon from Michael
25 Hefner relating to use of The Mission Continues --
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1 MS. MITTEN: So we haven't seen those yet.
2 and those will be added to our binder folders.
3 MR. BARNES: And what he has brought here
4 today is a phone record.
5 MS. LAUER: Is there any reason to
6 consider the Boys State?
7 MR. BARNES: I think let's hear from
a Mr. Hafner first. Let's look at his documents and
9 hear from him first. I take that from you. you
10 think that there is.
11 MS. LAUER: I would question him.
12 MR. BARNES: And I'm open to that
13 possibility. I?m open to what the committee
14 considers. obviously, we have people in public
15 statements from people who need to get one of those
16 people who was quoted publicly to do so. What I
1? also want to do is bring the board of Boy's State
18 down here to testify. I think what may be helpful
19 to them is to send written interrogatories to them
20 or ask them to sign a declaration or affidavit.
21 But we could direct interrogatories to him to
22 make sure that we're getting answers to the
23 questions that we want.
24 Ms. MITTEN: Well and my only and I
25 don't know is there anything about that that --

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1 is there some law that was violated by virtue of 
2 that, or is it just sort of bad behavior?
3 MR. BARNES: It's potentially a
4 misappropriation or a theft if you get information
5 for one purpose and use it for another.
6 MS. MITTEN: Okay.
7 MS. LAUER: Without the individuals
8 knowing about it.
9 Ms. MITTEN: Okay.
10 MR. BARNES: Potential. And. you know, I
11 want to go down the path and find out the were
12 there expectations? What were those expectations?
13 MS. MITTEN: What were the expectations.
14 Okay. That's fair.
15 MR. PHILLIPS: And all of this falls in
16 the guidelines of the resolution to be passed --
1? MR. BARNES: It does.
18 MS. MITTEN: Those are also allegations at
19 that point, I guess.
20 MR. BARNES: Any further comments or
21 questions?
22 MS. LRUER: What about next week so I know
23 whether or not to pack more clothes or not.
24 MR. BARNES: So Mr. Hefner will be here on
25 Wednesday morning at 8:00 a.m. We're going to try

maladaus Phone: 1.800.280.3378 Fax: 314.644.1334
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Page147
1 MR. RHORDS: I'm good. If sounds like we
2 can eliminate spring break. if at all possible.
3 MR. BARNES: You mean eliminate testimony
4 during spring break? Or at the very least, everyone
5 can have Monday and Tuesday of spring break. Is --
6 does everyone like the idea of Monday and Tuesday
7 for spring break?
3 MS. LAUER: Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday 2
9 is not good for me. I could try to shift things 2
10 around. a
11 MR. BARNES: Let's adjourn. 
12 I hereby adjourn. 
13 [The hearing concluded at 12:manners

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to get some testimony on Monday morning and 
2 MR. RHOADS: As of right now, do you have
3 testimony lined up for Monday morning?
4 MR. BARNES: I do not. Because
5 Mr. lawyer gave us this list of other
6 witnesses. we attempted to make contact with all
7 three of them. I made contact with 
8 she's coming on Friday. I made contact with 
9 - regarding Monday at one. She said she had
10 to check back and see about child care arrangements.
11 I'm still waiting to hear back. And then - did
12 not respond to my calls.
13 MS. LAUER: Did you say there is another
14 one next Friday?
15 MR. BARNES: We do not have anything
16 scheduled for next Friday at this point.
17 MS. MITTEN: I would pack for it.
18 MR. BARNES: Is anyone planning to be out
19 of town on Friday?
20 MS. MITTEN: Not anymore.
21 MR. BRRNES: I'm glad that looks cannot be
22 not recorded.
23 MR. RHOADS: Is it spring break week?
24 MR. BARNES: No. I'm talking about next
25 Friday.
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Page148
1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
2
3 I. Lisa Ballalatak. a Certified Court
4 Reporter for the State of Missouri, do hereby certify
5 that the witness whose testimony appears in the
6 foregoing hearing was duly sworn by me; the testimony
7 of said Witness was taken by me to the best of my
8 ability and thereafter reduced to typewriting under my
9 direction; that I am neither counsel for. related to,
10 nor employed by any of the parties to the action in
11 which this hearing was taken, and further that I am
12 not a relative or employee of any attorney or counsel
13 employed by the parties thereto, nor financially or
14 otherWise interested in the outcome of the action.
15
16

18 Lisa Ballalatak
19 Missouri Supreme Court
20 Certified Court Reporter
21
22
23
24
25

mandate Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax 314.644.1334

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Page 1

2
3
4
5
6 HOUSE SPECIAL INVESTIGATIVE COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT
7 HEARING
8 MARCH 9th, 2018
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APPEARANCES
2 Mr. Jay Barnes, Chairman
3 Mr. Alex Curchin, Senior Counsel/Legislative Director
4 Representative Don Phillips
5 Representative Jeanie Lauer
6 Representative Kevin Austin
7 Representative Gina Mitten
3 Representative Shawn Rhoads
9 Representative Tommie Pierson. Jr.
10
11
Also present:
12
Ms. Alix Hallen
13 Mr. Bryan D. Scheiderer
14 The Court Reporter:
15 MS. LISA BALLALATAK, CCR
Kansas CSR No. 1610
16 Missouri CCR No. 1336
ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
1? 2511 Broadway Bluffs, Suite 201
Columbia, Missouri 65201
18 Phone: [513} 449-0561
Hannah?sus

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Fig.2
1 INDEX OF EXAMINATION
2
3 Ms . 
4 Examination by Mr. Barnes 5
5 Examination by Mr. Phillips 14
6 Examination by Ms. Lauer 15
7 Examination by Mr. Austin 21
5 Examination by Mr. Rhoads 24
9 Examination by Mr. Tommie Pierson. Jr. 31
10 Re?examination by Mr. Barnes 33
11 Re-examination by Ms. Lauer 34
12 Re-examination by Mr. Barnes 38
13
14 Mr - 
15 Examination by Mr. Barnes 42
16 Examination by Mr. Phillips 53
17 Examination by Ms. Lauer 66
18
19 INDEX OF EXHIBITS
20 EXHIBITS:
21 Exhibit No. 2 (E?mail} 41
22
23 Reporter's Note: Exhibit 2 was retained by the panel.
24
25
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Page4
{The hearing commenced at 12:59 
2 MR. BARNES: I hereby open this committee
3 of the House Special Investigative Committee on
4 Oversight.
5 Mr. Secretary. please call the role.
6 MR. CURCHIN: Representative Barnes.
7 MR. BARNES: Here.
8 MR. CURCHIN: Representative Phillips.
9 MR. PHILLIPS: Here.
10 MR. CURCHIN: Representative Mitten.
11 MS. MITTBN: Here.
12 MR. CURCHIN: Representative Lauer.
13 MS. LAUER: Here.
14 MR. CURCHIN: Representative Austin.
15 MR. AUSTIN: Here.
16 MR. CURCHIN: Representative Rhoads.
1? MR. RHOADS: Here.
18 MR. CURCHIN: Representative Pierson.
19 MR. PIERSON: Here.
20 MR. CURCHIN: Ali here and accounted for.
21 MR. BARNES: A full committee being
22 present. we are ready to start. And I believe we
23 told -- I told the officers to bring the witness in.
24 Good afternoon. Thank you for being here.
25 Just go ahead and take a seat. We'll start with
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1 administering an oath.
2 okay.
3 
4 being first duly sworn. was examined and testified as
5 follows:
6 EXAMINATION
BY MR. BARNES:
3 Q. Can you state your name.
9 .. 
10 Q. And. ma'am. have you ever given testimony
11 in a deposition before?
12 HR. BRIGHAH: I'm sorry?
13 Q. Have you ever given testimony in a
14 deposition before -- not 
15 MR. BRIGHAM: In a deposition.
15 Q. (By Mr. Barnes) In a deposition.
1? A. No. No. Never.
13 Q. In a deposition?
19 A. No.
20 Q. okay. So we?re just going to have a
21 conversation. There are a couple of ground rules.
22 If someone asks you a question. and you don't
23 understand it, please don't hesitate to ask them to
34 stop and rephrase. I see you're nodding your head
25 now. You can't nod your head in answers to

malariaus Phone: 1.000.280.3376 Fax: ?Mist?
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1 A. Almost ten years.
2 Q. How would you describe your relationship?
3 A. Good friends.
4 Q. And have you worked together or just met
5 as sooial acquaintances?
6 A. No. I met her almost ten years ago. My
7 husband was friends with her now ex?husband. and so
8 when I got with my husband almost ten years ago, I
9 was introduced to and and we hung around
10 as a foursome. A few years_after I met her. I 
11 she also started doing my hair and 
12 Q. Have you known - to have a
13 reputation for truthfulness and honesty?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. And is that her reputation?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Did ever speak to you about
18 contacts she had with Eric Greitens?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. And when was the first time she spoke with
21 you?
22 A. I don't remember the specific date. but it
23 was sometime in March of 2015.
24 Q. Do you remember it in relation to when the
25 events happened and how many days after?

 

 

 

 

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1 questions.
2 A. Okay.
3 Q. You have to say "yes" or 
4 A. All right.
5 Q. And if you need to take a break at any
6 time, just let us know, and we can take a break.
7 MR. BARNES: And. Counsel. would you like
8 to introduce yourself?
9 MR. BRIGHAM: Sure. My name is
10 Chad Brigham. counsel at Goldenberg. Heller 5
ll Antognoli in Edwardsville. Illinois.
12 Q. (By Mr. Barnes) And so the way this is
13 going to work is, I'm going to ask you a series of
14 questions to start. and then our vice chair is going
15 to ask some questions. our ranking member is going
16 to ask you some questions, and then down the line in
1? terms of legislative seniority. Some people may not
18 have questions, and we'll -- we will see.
19 I'm the chairman of this committee. I'm
20 Jay Barnes. I'm from here in Jefferson City. You
21 should also know that we have the authority under
22 our rules -- we will redaot your name and protect
23 your privacy in this process.
24 Ma'am. how long have you known 
25 
ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
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aruzom
Pages
1 A. No. She first mentioned him before the
2 event. that he was a client that had came in that --
3 there was flirtation. that he was a good-looking
4 guy. he was a Navy Seal. that he was a Rhodes
5 Scholar I remember that specifically, because I
6 had no idea what a Rhodes Scholar washome and Google -- that he had authored some
8 books. I couldn't even remember his name when I had
9 gotten back from getting my hair done. so I had to
10 Google -- I remembered Eric and a word in one of his
11 books. and that's all I -- I didn't know who he was
12 or anything.
13 Q. So she had mentioned previous to March
14 those types of facts about him?
15 A. It was probably maybe sometime in early
16 March. maybe. It wasn't long before I heard about
17 the event.
18 Q. Okay. And where were you when -- you
19 referred to it as "the event" -- and we'll get into
20 that in a minute.
21 A. It was a phone conversation.
22 Q. And who were the parties to that
23 conversation?
24 A. Just me and -
25 Q. And what did she tell you?
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1 A. That she had been invited over to
2 Greitens' house. She had suggested that she
3 really wasn't comfortable going to his house; she
4 would rather do something like a coffee shop.
5 Q. When you say "she had suggested," was she
6 suggesting that to you or --
7 A. Oh, I'm sorry. To Greitens. That
8 Greitens had suggested that she come over to his
9 house, that she had said that she really didn't feel
10 comfortable going there, that she would rather do
11 something like talk at a coffee shop. He said that
12 he could not do that because he could not be seen in
13 public with her. And so -- that he wanted her to
14 come over to his house. And it was within walking 5
15 distance of The Chase, where she worked, and that 
going over there. i
17 Q. okay. And did she tell you what happened
18 after she went over there?
19 Yes.
20 Q. And what did she say?
21 A. She had went into his house, that he was
22 trying to make her feel comfortable because she was
23 nervous. He had given her seme sort of
24 loungewear some sort of lounge pant to put on and
25 some sort of T?shirt not what she were over
ALARBIIHGNUONSERWCES
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1 She was married, so she was worried about the stuff
2 being out. She has family that she's close to, that
3 she had gotten upset, and that Greitens was trying
4 to comfort her, telling her that it was going to be
5 okay, and that she did end up performing oral sex on
6 him.
1 Q. Did she tell you the circumstances at how
8 that came about?
9 A. 1 don't recall. 1 think it was on a
10 floor a basement floor. She was upset, and he
11 was consoling her. That's the only thing I can
12 remember from that, besides the actual act.
13 Q. Did she tell you what happened after that?
14 A. That she had went back upstairs. she got
15 back to the salon. She had forgotten her keys
16 there, so she had to go back to his house. She was
11 upset, she was angry, she was embarrassed, and that
18 he said. Just don't worry about it; I have deleted
19 the picture.
20 Q. when she spoke with you, how many days
21 after the incident do you believe it was?
22 A. I'm not sure of the exact number of days,
23 but it was what I would consider, like, fresh --
24 like, it had -- it had newly happened.
25 Q. And what was her demeanor on that phone
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Page10
1 there, but clothes that he had had, and that he
2 invited her down to his basement to teach her how to
3 do a proper pull?up i- she's really into fitness.
4 She went downstairs. He had bound her hands to some
5 sort of pull?up equipment with some sort of tape
6 that he had, put a blindfold over her eyes. He had
7 ripped her shirt and pulled down her pants some,
8 because she has a hernia scar, and he had made
9 some comment about her maybe not a scar -- or
10 something abnormal because of the hernia. He had
11 made some comment about that. She had seen a flash
12 through the blindfold, and that he had taken a
13 picture.
14 Q. Did she tell you whether she had consented
15 to that?
16 A. No, she did not consent.
17 Q. Did she tell you whether she had?
18 A. No. she said she was embarrassed and
19 shocked that he had said that she had better not
20 mention his name because he would then distribute
21- the pictures.
22 Q. Did she tell you about anything that
23 happened after that point in time that she told you
24 about?
25 A. Yes. That she was embarrassed and upset.
U116AT10N SEFMCES
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Page12
1 cell?
2 A. Embarrassed. Shocked. My when she was
3 telling me this, my very first reaction was that
4 it -- he sounded creepy. It was creepy for him to
5 be taking this picture. It doesn't sound like this
6 was, in my opinion, the first time he had done this,
7 because he was taking this picture and using it to
8 keep her quiet, for whatever reason. I thought it
9 was because he was married. She thought he had
10 feelings for her. I -- I didn't think that was
11 true, but she was pretty set on it. She thought
12 that -- that he cared about her.
13 Q. Did she speak to you at any other time
14 after that about her relationship with
15 Eric Greitens?
16 A. We spoke several times after that, and it
1? probably partly had to do with Greitens, but we
18 talked a lot about her marriage problems and then
19 kind of how the Greitens thing was intertwined in
20 this.
21 Q. Did she tell you of any other -- is there
22 anything else that stands out to you about the
23 things she said about Eric Greitens?
24 A. She did recount a story that occurred I
25 want to say it was in July, but I didn't hear about
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Pa9013
1 it right when I only heard about it maybe a month
2 or so ago when we had met up for dinner, about how
3 she had met him back in met him again in July,
4 that he was communicating with her through a
TracPhone, and that she had went there. His wife
6 was out of town, that she had -- he had asked her if
7 she had any sort of sexual relationship with anybody
8 since they had been together last. She stated that
9 she had had sex with her husband her husband at
10 the time, and that that had made him angry, and that
11 he had slapped her in the face and called her a
12 whore.
13 Q. Is there I?m going to ask -- this is 
14 similar to the last question I asked. Is there any i
15 other conversation you recall? 
16 A. That she had sent well, she had told me 
17 that after the event -- the event at his house with 
18 the picture, that he had came in sometime after that
19 to the salon -- it would have been before July 
20 before working hours. - was the only one there,
21 and he had showed up. There was some sort of
22 make?out session only then. She had also commented
23 that -- the way her station was set up at the salon,
24 the whole back wall was windows, and that she could
25 see him several times walking past the windows while
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HEAMNG EEQON
Page15
1 Q. Okay. All right.
2 MR. PHILLIPS: That's all I've got;
3 MR. BARNES: Representative Mitten.
4 MS. MITTEN: I have no questions.
5 HR. BARNES: Representative Lauer.
6 MS. LAUER: Yes, Mr. Chair.
1 EXAMINATION
BY MS. LAUER:
9 Q. Jeanie Lauer from the Kansas City area.
10 And I want to ask you about -- from the period of
11 time you?re good friends for ten years?
12 A. Yeah.
13 Q. And so over the period of time that she
14 was talking to you about the situation, would you
15 describe -- if you were to, like, chart this out on
16 a graph, her level of emotion as she was talking
17 with you about this? So as an example, after the --
18 when she talked to you about she had met him, he was
19 flirtatious, what her emotions were like when she
20 talked to you, and then after the event kind of
21 walk through that -- what her emotions were.
22 A. I feel like they were pretty consistent, 
23 that it was anxiety and stress because her 5
24 marriage was so intertwined with it, too. A lot of 
25 the conversations, even after the event with 

 

 

 

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Page?
1 she was doing hair. She also ran into him one time
2 at a grocery store -- I don?t recall which one --
3 and that he was there with a toddler, and that it
4 was unCOmfortable for her. That's all and that
5 she had sent him an e-mail -- and this would have
6 been after, even, the July incident, that he
I couldn't come in and get his hair out, he couldn't
8 come into the salon anymore.
9 MR. BARNES: I have no further questions
10 for now.
11 EXAMINATION
12 BY MR. PHILLIPS:
13 Q. I'm Representative Don Phillips, and I
14 just have a couple of questions.
15 One is, do you have any knowledge if -
16 was contacted by Governor Greitens or any of his
17 staff or attorney after the story broke? Did she
18 ever share anything like that with you?
19 A. No.
20 Q. okay. Do you have any knowledge that she
21 received -- or did she tell you about receiving any
22 kind of compensation or anything related to her
23 remaining quiet on the story?
24 A. She specifically told me she did not
25 receive anything.
ALARIS 
Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax 314.644.1334
assure
Pags16
1 Greitens, had to do with how it would affect her
2 marriage, if it -- you know, her ex-husband -- her
3 now ex-husband found out. She was embarrassed, in
4 general, but I think that -- she was in such a bad
5 place in her marriage, and I think that she really
6 thought that Greitens had feelings for her. So I
7 feel like she was very conflicted, especially
8 between the actions that Greitens was doing and then
9 what he was telling her, how smart she was and --
10 trying to balance those with the -- his actions,
11 too.
12 Q. Okay. And did she ask you for any advice
13 that you gave to her?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. And what was that?
16 A. Right after it happened, I told her not to
1? tell her ex?husband all of the details. Several
18 months afterwards, her and - were trying to work
19 on their marriage. They were going to counseling.
20 I told her that she should tell him everything. My
21 fear was if they actually made their marriage work,
22 and then a year went by, and she didn?t tell him
23 every single detail, and then found out
24 something she had left out a year from now, then all
25 of the work that she had -- they had put into it to

nonmab?sus Phone:t3002803370 

 

 

 

 

 

HEAHNG straws
Pagan
1 make their marriage work would all be gone. So I 
2 told her that she should be fully honest with him a
3 about everything that happened. 
4 Q. okay. When you were discussing the first i
5 event that she talked with you the first meeting,
6 you said that she said that Mr. Greitens was
7 flirtatious --
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. -- or flirty yeah, flirtatious. Did
10 she give you any specific descriptors about what
11 that meant?
12 A. Just that he was extremely complimentary
13 of her. He came off really intelligent and good
14 looking and was paying her a lot of attention and
15 compliments. I know that she was eating up --
16 specifically because she was in such a low spot in
17 her marriage.
18 Q. Okay. And, also, the other thing you
19 said, that she -- she did not feel comfortable going
20 to his house.
21 A. Uh?huh.
22 Q. Could you describe that? Did she use any
23 specific descriptors about what that meant?
24 A. No. Not that I can recall.
25 Q. Okay. And when this whole thing came out
ALARBIJUGNUONSERWCES
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HEARHHG 
Pago18
1 haven't talked to any of them.
2 Q. Okay. So you've never responded to any of
3 their requests for interviews?
4 A. No. I haven?t even answered the phone.
5 Q. You haven't answered the phone?
6 A. No.
Q. What is your relationship with - now?
8 A. With 
9 Q. I'm sorry.
10 A. Still good friends.
11 Q. okay. And how would you describe her
12 emotions her feelings at this point in time. now
13 that everything has come out?
14 A. Anxiety.
15 Q. Okay.
16 A. Stress. She would she never wanted
1? this to come out. She would have never brought this
18 out. She's got minor children: she has her own
19 business and a lot of stress.
20 Q. okay. And as her friend, she may have
21 told you what caused her to continue to interact
22 with Greitens. What was it that -- when she said
23 she didn't feel comfortable and had anxiety and so
24 forth, yet she continued? Did she share -- to what
25 degree did she share with you why she was doing

 

 

 



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Page 18
1 into the open, you were still communicating with
2 her?
3 A. Yes. We were still talking. I had no
4 indication that this was going to come out except
5 for the fact that I started getting phone calls from
6 reporters. That's how I first found out about it.
7 that a reporter from Politico called me and left me
8 a message asking for sons comment. I had no idea
9 what they were talking about. Thirty minutes later.
10 I got another phone call from a reporter. and that's
11 when my husband and I started on. like.
12 Twitter to see what could possibly it be. and that's
13 when I texted her.
14 Q. So she had not given you any indication
15 that anything was breaking?
15 A. I think she was just keeping everything
17 quiet.
13 Q. And so what is your thought on how these
19 reporters got your name?
20 A. I?m not sure how they got my name. but
21 several of them I have gotten calls from the
22 New York Times. CNN. I haven't talked to any of
23 them. so I'm not sure they just leave me messages
24 telling me they want some comment and it can be off
25 the record; they just want my voice. but I just I
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Page 20
1 that?
2 A. She thought -- I think she thought he
3 cared for her.
4 Q. She thought he cared for her?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And you questioned that feeling? 
1 n. Immediately.
3 Q. Okay. And why was that? 
9 A. Immediately. Because his actions of
10 binding her and taking a picture. it sounded
11 extremely creepy for me. I mean, I didn?t
12 understand why he would take great -- that's
13 a really big step to take for your wife not to find
14 out. You know. you take a picture of someone that
15 you're planning to be intimate with. and you're
16 taking a picture and telling her that you'll
1? distribute if she says his name. I thought. was a
18 very big step to take just so his wife wouldn?t find
19 out. I didn?t even occur me that it would have been
20 any other reason than for his marriage.
21 Q. Okay. And what did she specifically say
22 that caused you come to the feeling that he was
23 creepy?
24 A. The blindfolding. the picture. not wanting
25 her to tell anybody or he was going to distribute
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HENWNG savage
Page21
1 this picture, making her change clothes, I thought,
2 was odd. The whole thing, to me, from an outsider
3 didn?t seem like he cared at all; it just seemed
4 like a creepy action to me.
5 Q. Okay. As her friend, were you ever
6 concerned about her safety?
7 A. No. Because I thought it was just -- I
8 was concerned about it leaking out to her house --
9 you know, I wasn't concerned for her safety,
10 because, to me, it was just a married man having an
11 affair with a married woman, so my biggest concern 1
12 was spouses finding out. 
13 MS. LAUER: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
14 EXAMINATION
15 BY MR. AUSTIN:
16 Q. Hi, I'm Kevin, state representative in
17 District 136.
18 You said earlier that you and - were
19 still that was when you were still talking, but
20 then you also said you?re still friends: is that i
21 right?
22 A. Uh?huh. 
23 Q. Do you guys still talk?
24 oh, yeah. Regularly. Sorry.
25 Q. And when was the last time you talked with

amnesh?siu Phonezt8002803376 ch3$t644d334
HEAHNG semen
P89023
1 A. No.
2 Q. We have what we believe to be a recording
3 made by her husband -- an audio recording of a
4 conversation between her now ex-husband and her. no
5 you know of any other recordings that he made?
6 A. No. I was surprised to hear that there
1 were audio recordings.
8 Q. Has anybody besides reporters and law
9 enforcement contacted you about this matter?
10 MR. BEIGE-1.31M: I'm hesitant, just
11 knowing I don't know if some of the relationships
12 of -- of the relationships between certain offices,
13 so I think we better not answer that, as well, at
14 this time.
15 Q. {By Mr. Barnes) And I'll just ask you 
16 has anybody from Enttera, LLC, or anybody claimed to
17 be associated with Enttera, LLC contacted you?
13 MR. BRIGHAM: We can't answer that
19 question.
20 Q. [By Mr. Austin) When .was describing
21 that -- the event, if you willdescribe what the tape was that was put around her
23 hands?
24 A. No. I only recall it just being tape.
25 Q. She just said tape?

 

 

 

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1 her?
2 A. A couple of days ago.
3 -Q. Okay. Was there any talk about these
4 hearings that we're having that you?re in today?
5 A. Just that I was really nervous and asking
6 her kind of who was in the room. So -- it?s
7 intimidating being on this side.
8 Q. I'm sure it is. And I apologise for that.
9 Did you talk about any of the substance of
10 the questions that you could anticipate?
11 A. No. Just that we were sitting here and
12 kind of that the panel would be there.
13 Q. Physical layout?
14 A. Yeah.
15 Q. Okay. Has anybody besides reporters
16 approached you about this?
11 an. BRIGHAM: Next question. We better
18 keep that 
19 Q. {By Hr. Austin} Same question. We?ll
20 exclude the circuit attorney?s office regarding the
21 grand jury.
22 MR. BRIGHAM: Not narrow enough.
23 Q. (By Mr. Austin) Has anybody from
24 Eric Greitens? office or anybody claiming to be
25 associated with Eric Greitens contacted you?

nonmahnsis Phono:i80&2803376 ch??t?44d334
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PageZ4
1 Yeah.
2 Q. Did she in any way describe the blindfold?
3 A. No. Just that it was a blindfold.
4 Q. And did she tell you how she knew there
5 was a photograph?
6 A. A flash of light.
7 Q. And did she ever tell you that she
8 actually saw the photograph -- obviously, no?
9 A. No. That she she had saw the flash,
10 and then when she came back to get her keys that she
11 left, that he said, I deleted the picture; don't
12 worry about it.
13 Q. Did you -- did she ever tell you or show
14 you any screenshots she made of any texts or copies
15 of any e-mails between her and Eric Greitens?
16 A. No.
11 NE. AUSTIN: That's all.
1 8 EXAMINATION
1 9 BY MR . RHOADS:
20 Q. My name is Shawn Rhoads. State
21 representative from West Plains.
22 Just to kind of clarify a couple of things
23 that you have said before. You said you have been
24 contacted by, like, CNN and and whatever. Is
25 that on your cell phone, or is that --
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HEAHNG macaw
Page25
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. So someone is giving out your cell phone.
3 A. And my full name. is what
4 they're asking for.
5 Q. Okay. well, ma'am, who would you
6 speculate has done that?
A. I don't know.
8 Q. Okay. Did husband -- ex-husband 
9 know your cell phone number?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Okay. So you said. earlier that you and 
12 often talk. Are we talking five times a week? More
13 than that? Once a day? I'm talking talking -- I'm
14 sorry, I want to clarify. I'm talking, talking on
15 the phone, not texting, because I'm sure I am going I
16 to answer that question here in a little bit, too. 
17 A. I think that we talked more often back in
18 2015 because I was getting my hair done by her. So
19 for a woman, that?s, like, six -- every six to eight
20 weeks that I would see her for a couple of hours,
21 getting my hair done consistently, and then talking
22 between my hair appointments. too. I would say more
23 recently, probably once a month.
24 Q. Okay. Do you text each other very much?
25 A. Probably around the same. Probably once
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HEAMNG semen
Page27
1 about how it must be nice for -- basically implying
2 that - had gotten a new car or that she had been
3 compensated. And was like, or course I never
4 got paid anything. So it was all centered around 
5 some allegations that thought she had been paid 
6 some hush money. i
Q. I understand. Okay.
8 A. I was trying to remember where I had seen
9 that conversation. I think it was a third?party
10 Twitter account that we suspected may have been set
11 up by -, and that?s where that cenversation came
12 from. I
13 Q. Do you know what that Twitter account is? 
14 A. It was. like. show_metoo, t-o?o, something I
15 like that.
16 Q. Do you think it's still active? 3
17 A. I'm not Sure. I try to stay off of there.
18 Q. I understand.
19 So I want to go back to these calls you?ve
20 been getting. When did they start?
21 A. I don't know the date, but it was the very
22 evening that the Greitens made his the --
23 Q. So the night of the State o? the State --
24 that didn't get over until, like, 8:30 or nine
25 o'clock, and you immediately started getting calls

 

 

 

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Pagezs
1 or twice a month, a phone call, text, now.
2 Q. So how many times would you say and I
3 realize you can't point that you have talked about
4 the -- any incident or any kind of interaction with
5 Eric Greitens and 
6 A. I would say quite a bit, but in varying
7 capacities. because, again, a lot of our talks may
8 not have been about the event but more about her
9 marriage and her ex?husband and how all of that was
10 kind of being brought into play because of all of
11 our talks about marriage and all of that stuff.
12 Q. Do you think she was really detailed in
13 what she told you, or do you think that maybe she
14 didn't give you all of the details?
15 A. As far as the event?
16 Q. As to what happened and went on during her
1? interaction with Eric Greitens.
18 A. I don't know. I don?t know.
19 Q. Okay. I want to touch on a question that
20 Representative Phillips had asked about
21 compensation. How did that come up in a
22 conversation?
23 A. Because - had made a cement somewhere
24 about I think maybe -- I want to say it was --
25 I'm not real sure -- that - had made some comment

Phons:t3002803?78 ch31t644d334
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PageZB
1 after that?
2 A. Before that.
3 Q. Before 
4 A. Probably -- if I had to guess, like,
5 between six and seven that evening. It was early.
6 Q. Okay.
7 A. The first one.
8 Q. What is your feelings about someone giving
9 out your number and giving this in?ormation about
10 you?
11 A. I?m not happy about it because I?m,
12 like, constantly watching my phone to make sure 
13 any number I'm not able to answer any number that
14 I don?t know. Sometimes they're not leaving
15 messages. we do some sort of reverse lookup to see
16 who it is that's calling. Most recently it?s been
1? the St. Louis Post Dispatch. I think my last three
18 or four phone calls have been from a Jack suntrup
19 from the St. Louis Post.
20 Q. Do they say, Hey, I got your number from
21 so-and-so when they leave a message --
22 A. No.
23 Q. They just say --
24 A. Hey, -.
25 Q. They can go straight to the point and say,
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HEARING 3192018
PIge29
1 Hey, we need to talk to you about this; call me
2 back?
3 A. Yeah.
4 Q. Okay.
5 A. They could be off the record -- you know,
6 that kind of those kind of comments.
1 Q. I understand. I understand.
8 So when you were talking to I on the
9 phone -- and you may have already said this, and I
10 apologize if I'm asking you a second question that
11 you have already answered. Did she seem upset on
12 the phone: did she seem okay on the phone, just kind
13 of like a normal conversation but just say --
14 telling you what's going on or -- I realize that's
15 several conversations, but at any time did you hear
16 an emotional -- her getting very emotional on the 5
17 phone or anything like that? 3
18 MR. BARNES: Can you specify the time of i
19 the call? 3
20 MR. RHOADS: The first one -- the first
21 call.
22 A. She was emotional. To be honest, she was
23 emotional in some way on almost every phone call
24 during that time. Because it was either emotional
25 about what had happened with Greitens or it was
ALARIS SERVICES
malariam Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 31456441334
HEARING 35.12018
PsgI31
- 1 EXAMINATION
2 BY MR. PIERSON:
3 Q. I?m Tommie Pierson, Jr., state
4 representative in St. Louis County.
5 so -- just, again, did anyone contact you
6 about Eric Greitens other than reporters -- state 
7 law enforcement or federal law enforcement, any i
8 circuit attorney or any staff member of the circuit 
9 state's attorney's office, any investigator, expert,
10 or other person retained by or affiliated with the
11 circuit attorney's office?
12 MR. BRIGHAM: Anyone other than that?
13 MR. PIERSON: Yes.
14 A. Nope.
15 Q. {By Mr. Pierson} Has anyone from New
16 Missouri ever contacted you about - or Eric?
1? A. I don't think so, because I'm not sure
18 what that is.
19 Q. Has anyone from Axiom Strategies contacted 3
20 you about or Eric?
21 A. Nope. 
22 Q. Has anyone from the Dowd Bennett law firm i
23 ever contacted you about - or Eric?
24 A. No.
25 Q. Anyone from Scott Rosenblum's office ever
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PageSO
1 emotional about the state of her marriage.
2 Q. okay. And that -- you reminded me of a
3 question that I had typed up that I was going to ask
4 you.
5 My interpretation of when she was here,
6 she said that she was kind of in a -- in a rough
7 place, obviously, with her marriage not being in a
8 good way, and I'm going to ask you, from that point,
9 when that stuff was going on to now, her dealing
10 with problems in her life, saying they are better
11 than they used to -- because at that point in time,
12 when all of this was going on, this alleged -- what
13 we're talking about here was going on, she appeared
14 to be -- and she even said, I was really distraught
15 and confused and just not in a good place and -- you
16 know, obviously it seems like she's a lot better now
17 than she was. Is that correct?
13 A. Oh, my yes. Yes.
19 Q. okay. I said a lot of words but sorry
20 about that.
21 Mr. Chair, thank you.
22 MR. BARNES: Representative Pierson.
23 MR. PIERSON: Thank you. Mr. Chair.
24
25

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Page32
I contacted you about - or Eric?
2 A. No.
3 Q. Were you under the impression that 
4 believed that Eric did, in fact, delete the photo?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. So your relationship started with -
7 based upon the relationship with the husband?
8 A. Yes. I met them both at the same time,
9 but my husband knewI her knew - before he even
10 met 
11 Q. And how would you describe that
12 relationship now?
13 31. Which relationship?
14 Q. Well, the relationship with -.
15 A. My relationship with 
16 Q. Yes.
11 A. It's nonexistent. Once they got divorced,
18 you almost had to pick a side. And I was still
19 getting my hair done by - and it lwas kind of
20 an ugly time. So I have not spoken to him in a
21 couple of years.
22 Q. Did you talk about a conversation where it
23 was relayed to you that -- in an encounter with
24 Eric and where she got slapped in the face?
25 A. Uh-huh.

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anuzrns
Page33
1 Q. And you said that he called her a where?
2 A. Right.
3 Q. Have you ever noticed any -- I guess, any
4 facial any bruises or scars or anything o? that
5 nature on -
6 A. No.
7 MR. PIERSON: Thank you.
8 EXAMINATION
9 BY MR. BARNES:
10 Q. Have you shared this information with
11 anyone other than the list that Representative 
12 Pierson -- let's go back. Scratch that. Let?s 
13 start it this way. a
14 Prior to January, did you share any of
15 this with anyone other than 
16 A. The attorneys at the law firm that I work
17 with, when I started getting phone calls. My
18 husband, also.
19 Q. You described to us two acts, at some
20 level, of a physical altercation between Greitens
21 and Are there any other incidents that
22 you?re aware of beyond those two acts?
23 A. No. Not just what information I gave
24 you today. That's all I know.
25 MR. BARNES: Okay.

usnasbnsus Feca?t?44?a34
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Page35
1 husband, me --
2 MR. BRIGHAM: Are you asking if -
3 expressed that to her?
4 MS. LAUER: Yes. I?m sorry.
5 A. Yes. That it -- that he would -- that it
6 was kind of hung over her head that he had this
7 information.
8 Q. (By Ms. Lauer} Okay. And continuing with 5
9 that, did she share did share with you any
10 specifics as to what she was concerned that her now 
11 ex might do to her, to Greitens, to anyone? a
12 A. I think she was just afraid he?d tell. 
13 Q. That he would tell? i
14 A. Right.
15 Q. Whom?
16 A. Tell whoever would listen -- his friends,
1? her family, his family. I think that was her
18 biggest fear, is that he just wouldn't keep it under
19 wraps. You know, that he had this information; he
20 was hurt by this information, and that she was
21 worried about what he'd do with the information.
22 Q. And did she feel that there was a risk
23 that he would share this publicly?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. She did state that?

 

 

 




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Page34
1 Representative Lauer.
2 MS. LAUER: Yes, Mr. Chair. A few
3 follow-up questions.
4 MR. BARNES: Yes, ma'am.
5 MS. LAUER: Thank you.
6 EXAMINATION
7 BY MS. LAUER:
8 Q. As being a -- and in that
9 business, I know that in my experience, it is very
10 normal to have conversations with a 
11 while you?re spending time there and so forth. was
12 that natural ?or her to do with her customers, to
13 have conversation and just kind of get to know her?
14 A. I'm not sure. I was already friends with
15 her by the time I started getting -- having her do
16 my hair, so I really didn?t see her do anybody
17 else's hair.
18 Q. okay. All right.
19 A. I?m not sure.
20 Q. At the time -- during the times when she
21 was talking to -- and you said she had anxiety and
22 stress about her situation with her ex-husband and
23 so forth. Did she give you.any indication that
24 there was a concern o? what the ex-husband might do?
25 A. I think that all of us that knew -- my
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1 A. That she was scared that he would say
2 something?
3 Q. Yeah. That he would share this
4 information publicly.
5 A. Publicly to not her friends and family?
6 Q. Uh-huh.
1 A. I'm not sure.
8 Q. Okay.
9 A. I'm not sure how to answer that.
10 Q. All right. And I just want to confirm the
11 money -- that she had not received any monies for
12 keeping quiet and not sharing anything. Have you
13 been at her home?
14 A. Have I been to home?
15 Q. Uh-huh.
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Have you noticed any remodeling that was
13 done there in the kitchen area?
19 A. No.
20 Q. Okay. Have you noticed that she has a
21 ditferent vehicle than what she might be driving
22 originally?
23 A. No. I haven't noticed anything.
24 Q. she still has the same vehicle, same
25 kitchen?

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1 A. Nothing that I have noticed.
2 Q. Okay.
3 A. But I don't know. I don?t really pay
4 attention to that stuff. Sorryany time during her
5 discussions with you, she shared that she had
7 feelings for him. that -- and that she did not feel
8 like that was reciprocated. Is that right? Or did
9 she feel that there was a love or -- whether you
10 might call --
11 A. Yes. Absolutely. 
12 Q. She did feel that? 
13 A. I think she felt that Greitens cared a lot 
14 about her. 
15 Q. okay. 3
16 A. I think that was from the beginning. she I
17 felt that. 
18 Q. Okay. And did she share why she felt that
19 way?
20 A. I think because he was saying nice things
21 to her. He was making nice comments. very
22 complimentary like. this was a new thing for him
23 to be outside of his marriage. I think she felt
24 special.
25 Q. Did she feel excited about that. as in
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1 in Illinois that you want to live and don't want to
2 be dragged down here to Jefferson City. and I wish I
3 could give you specifics. but I have no specifics at
4 this time.
5 MR. BRIGHAM: Could this be used as a
6 deposition-type testimony. something like that?
1 MR. BARNES: If we need to go there. we'll
8 go there.
9 MR. BRIGHAM: Fair enough.
10 MR. BARNES: Thank you.
11 And now I will motion that we recess
12 until -- he's coming in at 3:30 3:15?
13 We'll recess until 3:15. All of those in
14 favor. signify by saying "aye.'I
15 [Unanimous "aye":
16 MR. BARNES: Actually. let me back up.
1? Having voted and decided that -- the
18 prevailing side. I'd like to reconsider the motion
19 to reconvene at 3:15. and instead we will reconvene
20 at 3:30. the time we actually told him to get here.
21 and we will each show up 15 minutes early.
22 So now the motion is to roll call to
23 reconsider the previous motion.
24 Mr. Secretary. please call the roll.
25 MR. CURCHIN: Barnes.

 

 

 

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1 joyful?
2 A. I don't remember her feeling excited about
3 it: I just remember her feeling anxiety about the
4 whole situation.
5 MS. LAUER: All right. Thank you.
6 Thank you. Mr. Chair.
7 MR. BARNES: I have just a few more.
8 EXAMINATION
9 BY MR. BARNES:
10 Q. You testified earlier that said
11 she was uncomfortable going to Greitens? house.
12 A. Uh-huh.
13 Q. Did she express why?
14 A. Not that I recall.
15 MR. BARNES: I have no further questions.
16 Thank you for taking the time to come down
11 and speak us with today. We appreciate it.
13 You're welcome.
19 MR. BRIGHAM: Thank you.
20 Is there a process. just to kind of set
21 the table for what could potentially happen in the
22 future. in terms of testimony or --
23 MR. BARNES: At this point in time. we
24 will not I appreciate the question because you?re
25 trying to plan you know. you've got a life and 
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1 MR. BARNES: Aye.
2 MR. CURCHIN: Phillips.
3 MR. PHILLIPS: Aye.
4 MR. CURCHIN: Mitten.
5 MS. MITTEN: Aye.
6 MR. CURCHIN: Lauer.
1 MS. LAUER: Aye.
8 MR. CURCHIN: Austin.
9 MR. AUSTIN: Aye.
10 MR. CURCHIN: Rhoads.
11 MR. RHOADS: Aye.
12 MR. CURCHIN: Pierson.
13 MR. PIERSON: Aye.
14 MR. CURCHIN: Okay. That motion is
15 carried. seven.
16 MR. BARNES: So the witness may show up
1? early. I know everyone wants to go home as early as
18 they can. So let's -- can we recess to an
19 indefinite time. and people plan to be back here
20 about let's recess until three o?clock. and we
21 may stand at ease until such time as the witness 
22 All of those in favor of recessing until
23 3:00 p.m. say aye.
24 (Unanimous "aye"}
25 MR. BARNES: The eyes clearly have it.
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1 We'll stand in recess.
2 And we can go off the record.
3 recess was taken.)
4 {Exhibit No. 2 was marked for
5 identification.)
6 MR. BARNES: I call us back to order.
7 And I now move, while we're waiting on the
8 witness. to close Monday?s session. which will begin
9 at 1:00 p.m.
10 All those in favor will vote yes. and all 
11 those opposed will vote no. 
12 MR. CURCHIN: Summarize what will be 1
13 involved in that.
14 MR. BARNES: Monday at one we are hearing
15 from another person I identify is by. as someone
16 she spoke with in the week or two after March let.
1? Mr. Secretary. 
13 MR. CURCHIN: Barnes. 
19 MR. BARNES: Aye. 
20 MR. CURCHIN: Phillips. 
21 MR. PHILLIPS: Rye.
22 MR. CURCHIN: Mitten
23 MS. MITTEN: Aye.
24 MR. CURCHIN: Lauer.
25 MS. LAUER: Aye.

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1 Q. And have you ever given testimony in a
2 deposition not in front of a grand jury or any
3 sort of investigation, just a deposition?
4 A. No, sir. .
5 Q. okay. Well, this is not a deposition, but i
6 it's kind of like a deposition. so there's some just 3
7 basic ground rules. One is, if you don't understand 
8 a question, that's okay. stop the person asking the 
9 question and ask them to ask it again. 2
10 A. Yeah.
11 Q. The second rule is, you can't nod your
12 head yes or shake your head no, you have to answer
13 "yes" or because the court reporter cannot get
14 a head shake.
15 A. Yes, sir.
16 Q. Okay. And the third rule is if you need
17 to stop for any reason, just let us know. okay? And
18 we can do that.
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. okay. You should also know that the
21 committee will redact your name and certain
22 information for privacy reasons. We insist that the
23 rules establishing this committee allow us the
24 authority to do that, so feel free to speak freely
25 and know that we have the power with that.

 

 

 



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1 MR. CURCHIN: Austin.
2 MR. AUSTIN: Aye.
3 MR. CURCHIN: Rhoads.
4 MR. RHORDS: Aye.
5 MR. CURCHIN: Pierson.
6 MR. PIERSON: Aye.
7 MR. BARNES: There were seven ayes. We
8 vote to close Monday?s hearing.
9 And now we will stand at ease until the
10 witness arrives.
11 MR. BARNES: We are now back in session,
12 having recessed. It is approximately 3:45 in the
13 afternoon.
14 Mr. ., my name is Jay Barnes; I'm the
15 chairman of this committee. I'm a state
16 representative here in Jefferson City. Before we
17 start. I'm going to swear you in.
.a 
19 being first duly sworn, was examined and testified as
20 follows:
21
22 EXAMINATION
23 BY MR. BARNES:
24 Q. Please state your name.
25 A- 
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HEAHNGIEHEOM
Paged4
1 A. Thank you, air.
2 Q. I want to start with what I've set on that
3 table, which is an e-mail that was sent by your
4 attorney to us in response to a request for
5 documents. Do you recognize this e-msil?
6 A. Yes, sir.
Q. And how do you recognize it?
8 A. It was an e-mail that I sent when I had
9 suspected my ex?wife of being at her home -- being
10 Sheena Sheena?s home during a time that she
11 wasn't there.
12 Q. Is it a fair and accurate representation
13 of the e-mail that you sent?
14 A. Is this the e-mail that I sent?
15 Q. Yes. Is it a fair and accurate
16 representation of that e-mail?
17 A. Yes.
13 Q. It is, in fact, that e?mail?
19 Yes, sir.
20 And on page 2, is that the response -- are
21 these the responses that you received in response
22 from Sheena Greitens? e?mail?
23 A. Yes. sir. I think it was an
24 auto-response.
25 Q. That's what it looks like to me?as well.
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HEARING seems
Pleads
A. Yes, sir.
2 Q. Okay. Did you ever speak with Sheena
3 Greitens?
4 A. Not specifically.
5 Q. Did you how did you know that your
6 ex-wife was at the Greitens? home at the time that
7 you sent this e-mail?
8 A. I had driven I had driven by multiple
9 times when I suspected that she wasn't at work when
10 she was supposed to be at work. and I seen my car 
11 her car/my car out in the front of the home.
12 Q. And that was on this date in question, on
13 July 3rd?
14 A. Yes, sir. Yeah. I believefrom work. It was during the day.
16 Q. okay. Your attorney also sent certain
11 recordings to the committee. Have you listened to
18 those recordings?
19 A. In the past, yes.
20 Q. Okay. Did you participate in those
21 recordings?
22 A. Yes, sir.
23 Q. were you the person who, in fact. recorded
24 those conversations that were sent to this
25 comnittee?

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Page47
1 A. Yes, sir.
2 Q. And so other than the recordings that you
3 sent us -- in particular, recording No. 1, did your
4 ex?wife ever speak to you about contacts she had
5 with Eric Greitens?
6 A. Yes, sir.
Q. And other than what she told you in that
8 long recording that has been -- parts of which have
9 been played an the air, what did she tell you?
10 A. In 
11 MR. WATKINS: In addition to what was on
12 the recording.
13 Q. {By Mr. Barnes} Let me narrow my question,
14 okay?
15 A. Okay.
16 Q. Let's start with -- I believe the date was
11 March 21st of the incident in the basement.
18 A. Yes, sir.
19 Q. Okay. And you had a conversation -- on
20 what date did you record the conversation in your
21 car I believe it was in the Save-ArLot parking
22 lot?
23 A. That was the following it was the 
24 March 21st was on a Saturday -- 22nd, 23rd. 24th --
25 so the 25th.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Page46
1 A. Yes. sir.
2 Q. And have you altered them in any form or
3 fashion?
4 A. Absolutely not.
5 Q. Were -- who had possession of those
6 recordings before they came to this committee?
7 A. From my understanding, only myself and my
8 attorney.
9 Q. And are those recordings true and accurate
10 depictions of conversations that you had with your
1 1 sex?wife. 
12 A. Absolutely.
13 9. Now, those recordings have a lot of
14 information in them and conversations that really
15 are no business of this committee and your marital
l6 relationship with your ex-wife. Obviously, though,
17 the -- her relationship and your conversation about
18 her interactions with Eric Greitens are relevant.
19 So before I ask you the next question, I want to
20 start with the prerace that we don't want to get
21 into the feelings and the marital strife that you
22 have; we want to talk about what she told you about
23 Eric Greitens.
24 A. Yes, sir.
25 Q. okay?
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Page4a
1 Q. Wednesday, March 25th?
2 A. Wednesday, March 25th was when the
3 recording was made.
4 Q. So we obviously know from that recording
5 what she told you in that recording on March 25th.
6 Is there anything else she told you that day on
7 March 25th?
8 A. On that day. no. That was the extent --
9 that was the extent of our discussions regarding
10 that.
11 Q. When was the next time she talked to you
12 about the events of March 21st?
13 A. We spoke about it many times. Many times
14 after that, probably within a week.
15 Q. What else did she tell you about the
16 events of March 21st that is not on the tape
1? recording?
18 A. Within a few weeks of the recording, a
19 period of reconciliation had begun between my
20 ex-wife and I. and over the course of a month or
21 two, had many conversations. many hours spent
22 talking about all sorts of things -- other details
23 were explained. The story always stayed the same;
24 just additional details came out.
25 For instance, she initially didn't tell me
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SANELNE
Foge49
1 that when she walked in, he had he asked her to
2 go in the bathroom and put his clothes on, and that
3 the clothes that he removed from her when she was
4 tied up were actually his clothes, being shorts and
5 a T-shirt, which he ripped off of her. That was
6 information that was told to me afterwards. I don't
7 think it was even touched on in the initial
8 discussion.
9 How specific would you like me to get,
10 sir?
11 Q. I would like to know as specific as you
12 accurately recall 
13 A. All right.
14 Q. what she told you.
15 A. Okay. In the first one -- in the first
16 conversation about the incident, she said that she
17 forgot her keys and had to return after this, saying
18 that when the picture was taken, she freaked out and
19 asked to leave. left, went to work, forgot her keys,
20 had to come back, but there was only discussion, but
21 it went on for far longer than it should. He was
22 enticing her and comforting her and these other
23 things. And then later, I was she told me
24 that -- in the kitchen, actually, when she returned, i
25 that he -- that she gave him a blow job in the 
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1 about?
2 A. Oh, that was that was the initial one.
3 Q. okay.
4 MR. BARNES: I?d advise counsel to let the
5 witness answer the questions.
6 9. [By Mr. Barnes) After that day, did you
7 have any conversations with your ex?wife about other
3 encounters with Eric Greitens?
9 A. Yes. Many.
10 Q. Can you describe any of those other
11 encounters?
12 A. Yes. During the first reconciliation
13 period, she told me more details about the first
14 encounter. She would tell me about other times
15 where she had conversations with him. she wouldn't
16 necessarily tell me if they were on the phone, but
1? she always said he was very protective, so it's 
18 unlikely it was on the phone. I tried to get 
19 details about if he was coming into the salon or if 
20 she was meeting him otherwise, and she never led on
21 to specifics, necessarily, about conversations that
22 were had in that exact period.
23 Then later, around July late July,
24 August, during the second reconciliation period,
25 where I knew lots and lots of information was being

 

 

 



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1 kitchen, and that's when I learned after that,
2 which was not in the initial conversation.
3 Q. What else about that day?
4 A. Yeah, she discussed that she was told to
5 not park anywhere near there and to ceme she kept
6 her car in the Chase garage, walked the few blocks
7 down there, but walked by an alleyway behind the
8 house. She described then how there was a detached
9 garage and a fence that was high. She would be let
10 in through the back door: she went through the
11 fence. The back door then led into a kitchen-type
12 area, which is where the -- he was sitting with her
13 keys on the table, invited her in; they talked, and
14 then it unfolded into more of a sexual encounter.
15 Q. Let's go back to the morning. Did she
16 describe to you anything that happened after she --
1? describe being removed from the exercise rings?
18 A. The only thing she would say was just more
19 detail about the conversation and about how upset
20 she was, that she left; he was apologizing saying he
21 would delete the photo, and that that?s not what he
22 wanted, he thought that this is what she wanted, and
23 some other things along those lines.
24 Q. okay. Is there anything else about that
25 day, in particular, that you recall her talking
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withheld from me, I knew something had been going
2 on -- during the period in between the
3 reconciliation periods because everything was on
4 a trajectory for reconciliation, and then suddenly I
5 was cut off. I suspected that there was a good
6 reason for that. And then she had a change of heart
7 again. During our second reconciliation, she
8 finally confessed around August time that during
9 that time, that they did have other meetups, one of
10 which she told me about was in a guest bedroom next
11 to his son?s bedroom -- it was upstairs. She went
12 into pretty graphic detail and said that in the
13 beginning of the encounter, that he asked her if she
14 had been with anybody else, and she said, Yes, I was
15 with my husband; we were trying to reconcile. He
16 then hit her in the face, according to her -- she
said that he hit her in the face. And that during
18 that sexual encounter, while things were happening,
19 he got extremely rough with her, and she was crying
20 and asking him to stop and -- some other sexual
21 detail.
22 Q. What -- you said "and some other detail."
23 What other detail about asking him to stop?
24 A. That he was calling her names, that he
25 called her a whore and similar names. It was just
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1 getting very rough in a sexual sense. and she was -- 
2 she said she was crying at that point and then asked 
3 to go to the bathroom.
4 Q. Were there other events that she told you
5 aboutother encounters but never
7 got specific in that sense. She told me about a few
8 encounters that happened at work where he would come
9 in unannounced and be in the chair and make
10 appointments and things like that where she was 
11 during reconciliation was telling him to please go
12 away. and he was showing up at her work.
13 MR. BARNES: Representative Phillips. 3
14 EXAMINATION a
15 BY MR. PHILLIPS: 
16 Q. Don Phillips. state representative from a
17 District 138, down by Branson. 
18 My questioning is going be a little bit
19 different.
20 The transcript that we -- the transcript
21 that we have. based on the recording that you did.
22 were you ever compensated for the release of that
23 information?
24 A. I spoke to the Post-Dispatch well before.
25 and I have received nothing so far. My lawyer has a

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1 MR. PHILLIPS: Okay.
2 MR. WATKINS: There was significant
3 resources that were expended by my client.
4 MR. BARNES: Counsel. we are not directing
5 questions to you.
6 MR. WATKINS: I understand that. but 
MR. BARNES: Counsel. we are not 
8 MR. WATKINS: I understand that 
9 Mr. Barnes. please understand 
10 MR. BARNES: Counsel 
11 MR. WATKINS: -- I have a duty and an
12 obligation to my client. I will not allow him to
13 compromise the integrity of his rights as a client
14 with an attorney. So with respect to anything
15 having to do with finances --
16 MR. BARNES: You can state your objection
1? to the question and he can either answer it or not
18 answer it. but we are not asking questions of
19 counsel.
20 MR. WATKINS: I understand. And I
21 don?t I'm not answering questions or asking any
22 questions: I'm providing you with information. You
23 can choose to listen to it or choose not to. and
24 that?s up to you. but I'm making a record. I will
25 instruct my client to feel free to disclose any and

 

 

 

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Pa9854
I trust account that someone put something in after
2 speaking to the Post-Dispatch. to cover lawyer fees
3 and all of the things that were about to happen to
4 me financially because of the fallout. but I had
5 spent 15,000 or so dollars of my own prior to all of
6 this. trying to keep all of this quiet. and then
everything exploded underneath me. And while I was
8 talking to the Post. someone contacted my lawyer and
9 said he was going to help with legal fees.
10 Q. okay. So that's the Post-Dispatch. Is
11 there anybody else that has offered you any kind of
12 compensation for the release of any of this
13 information or encouraged you in that regard?
14 Mx. I want to make sure there's
15 clarity here, because I think what you just said was
16 the Post-Dispatch offered and --
11 MR. PHILLIPS: Did I get that wrong?
18 MR. WATKINS: Yeah. 50 I'm instructing --
19 you know. my client has been very. very candid with
20 me about the forthcoming nature of my scope of
21 disclosures that can be made.
22 MR. PHILLIPS: Okay.
23 MR. WATKINS: The representation by our
24 firm of Mr. - commenced in September of 2016.
25 before the election.
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1 all information that he has that is within the
2 subject matter of the purpose of this committee and
3 to do so --
4 MR. BARNES: And the subject matter of
5 this committee 
6 MR. WATKINS: So I have a duty and an
1 obligation to my client that I will discharge today.
8 Go ahead and answer any questions. If I
9 instruct you not to respond. please do so.
10 A. I -- the Post didn't give my anything. and
11 I have not received any money.
12 Q. (By Mr. Phillips} That's all I needed to
13 know. Thank you.
14 Now, as far as what was your motive for
15 releasing the iniormation?
16 A. I didn't want the information released.
17 The only reason I -- the reason that I retained
18 counsel is. A. I felt that the person that had
19 threatened my wife at the time probably knew that
20 she had told me. and I feared for my safety and my
21 life and everything. if he knew that I had
22 information. especially since he had started a
23 campaign shortly afterwards. The guy frightened
24 me -- things frightened me about the situation: I
25 wanted nothing to do with him.
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1 So the first thing I told my attorney was,
2 I need a lawyer, somebody in law to have this
3 recording in case I turn up dead so you guys knOw
4 who to go after. I'm just telling you the exact
5 words that I said to this man.
6 Secondly, I said, I don't want this to go
I anywhere. I?ve already been contacted by somebody
8 that knows the rumors. People had contacted me
9 and -- a representative, actually a politician
10 guy who I was mutual friends with or wasn't
11 friends with him -- we had mutual friends. He
12 contacted me and talked to me and everything, and I
13 realized, this is a political game; I want nothing
14 to do with it. So I went straight to him and said, 
15 You've got to represent -- somebody has got to 
16 represent me so I can send this to you for you to 
keep this crap quiet. I need this crap quiet. I'm
18 over the marriage. We were in the process of a
19 divorce. I didn't want it to come out in the
20 divorce. I didn't want anything to happen where my
21 children knew about any of this. I didn't want any
22 of this.
23 Over the course of the last two years,
24 probably once once a month, if not more frequent,
25 on occasion. less frequent on others, somebody would
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1 members and my boss, no one knew some of these
2 details -- nobody knew these details, and these were
3 coming back to me on my work voicemail. 
4 All of that, I'm calling him saying, These 
5 people know something, and they're saying that 
6 they're going to go with the story with or without
7 me. That?s all I kept hearing, and they were -- it
was -- was a threat, certainly, the way that these
9 things were being presented to me, saying, We know
10 this; we know this; we're going to go ahead with
11 this with or without you. It was media manipulation
12 where they're telling me they've got something. And
13 all I thought was, either this man was hacked or my
14 phone was hacked. Because around the same time, my
15 Eacebook -- my Facebook, my phone, all sorts of
16 digital things that I work with were acting real
1? funky -- and I'm an awfully savvy guy, so I'm -- I'm
18 not super susceptible to being hacked, but I?m also
19 willing to admit that anything can happen, and I'm
20 not the most technical guy. So I'm freaking out
21 thinking that this audio is out there, because all
22 of the details in the audio are being told back to
23 me in the media. Scared me to death.
24 But the kicker for me was, my daughter got
25 a voicemail from the media my teenage daughter.

 

 

 

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1 contact me, either through a voicemail or leaving a
2 business card or something in my home in my front
3 door, in my mailbox, et cetera. Not enough where it
4 freaked me out where I needed to do anything, but

5 enough where I would always send it to my lawyer

6 saying, So~and?so from this station contacted me:

7 so-and-so from this magazine contacted me; please

8 make sure this is quiet.

9 All of a sudden, November, December of
10 last year, I was getting messages four or five times
11 a day from all sorts of places that I -- some that I
12 knew; some that I didn't. Some national,
13 international publications, some Small -- a whole
14 bunch that I couldn't keep track of, and I didn't
15 want anything to do with it. But something had
16 happened with a rumor or the story had got into the
1? wrong hands where it was going somewhere.
18 Authorities knew a lot more and apparently
19 were all over this and media was all over this.
20 They were swarming me, and I couldn't I couldn't
21 go to work without having work -- voicemails on my
22 work saying and I mean down to the details 
23 down to the details I?ve never told anybody, down to
24 the details I know that he's never told anybody.
25 And aside from -- and I mean a couple of family

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1 She forwarded me the voicemail that was sent, and

2 that was it, man. Like, I had to we had some

3 serious conversations to be had. There was a couple
4 of media outlets that said that they were going to

5 go with the story right around the time that it was
6 about to break. They gave me a timeline,

7 essentially. Different publications gave different
8 timelines, and, ultimately -- ultimately, I felt

9 like I had, absolutely had to get out in front of it
10 in order to, A, ask whoever broke the story to

11 please not use my ex?wife's name, to please not use
12 my child's name in that voicemail, to please try to
13 protect the sanctity of my family, the privacy of my
14 family. I begged for that, and I needed to get out
15 ahead of the story, because one of the ways that it
16 was being put to me -- and I don't no offense to
17 everyone that's in politics, but I know enough about
18 some of these papers that are owned and in the

19 pockets of some of these parties and politicians,

20 that they were going to spin it to make my ex-wife
21 look like some dirty blackmailer or something that
22 was trying to take down the governor, and thatmay have our differences, but we?re
24 coparents, and we're responsible for these kids, and
25 I don't want them in the limelight. And I certainly

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Page61
1 don't want my ex-wife in the limelight as a bad
2 person and destroying her reputation in front of my
3 children. And I I just felt it necessary I'm
4 sorry to out you off, sir. I just felt that I had
5 no choice but to jump on the grenade, so to speak.
6 and take some of the shrapnel and let take some
I of the fallout for hopefully the benefit of my
8 children and the reputation of their mom.
9 MR. PHILLIPS: And I think that?s the very
10 reason I asked you that question, because you
11 undoubtedly care about your children, that's pretty
12 obvious, and your wife cares about those children.
13 You have more than one, I assume?
14 A. Yes. sir.
15 Q. (By Mr. Phillips) I?m using the plural
16 here. Okay.
17 So your testimony, then, is that you
18 didn't voluntarily go and release any information
19 because that would have been harmful to not only
20 your wife's reputation but your children -- and very
21 harmful for them and yours as well. And so anything
22 that's tied into compensation goes through -- I
23 don't understand the trust part of this, but it goes
24 through a trust through your attorney; is that
25 right?
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Page 63
1 Q. That really doesn't make too much sense think it does, sir, if you were raised 3
4 with my principles and my parents and my background 3
5 and my spirituality and the way I am in my life 5
6 these days, the person I'm in love with, the person
1 that loves me now. Believe me, sir I have been
8 through this before. when child
9 at 17 with my high school sweetheart. My Baptist
10 background told me I had to marry her at 18. I
11 married her at 18. We were never supposed to be
12 married; we were two kids. That woman had an affair
13 on me and cheated on me with some ex?boyfriend.
14 I've been through this before.
15 Q. Uh-huh.
16 A. And that boyfriend ultimately did me a
1? favor, and me that woman are better than ever 
18 MR. BARNES: Let's get back to the focus
19 of 
20 THE WITNESS: I'm just answering the man's 
21 question based on a principle, because some men 5
22 probably couldn't forgive. 
23 A. But I guarantee you guys. this man has 
24 this much (indicating) to do with my daily thoughts 2
25 or my life or anything. My life is better than 

 

 

 

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Page?z

A. Yes. sir.

2 Q. Okay.

3 A. I don't want anything. If it was offered.

4 I don?t want it.

5 Q. Okay.

6 A. I want to take care 

7 Q. To help with the legal fees, is that what

8 you're saying?

9 A. Yeah. Legal fees and if who knows. If
10 something was given or whatever. this is going into
11 a trust for my children. I want nothing. I don't
12 want a thing. I don?t want any of this. I don't
13 want a part of this. I don't want to be in the
14 news. I don't want my ex-wife in the news. I don't
15 care about politics. I don't care what happens to
16 this man. I wish him luck. I don't want anything
to do with this: I really don?t. I cannot overstate
18 that. I don?t want to be here.

19 Q. Now, to get back with what you just said
20 real quick. It's hard for me to imagine a husband
21 whose wife has been through this with another man
22 and be that forgiving. Have you always had that
23 attitude? It's like, Oh, well, I wish him the best.
24 I hope he gets along well?
25 A. Yeah.
. ALARIS SERVIH
wuamah?siu Phone:t8002803376
HEARHHG 
Page?4

1 ever, and I want nothing more than a good

2 relationship with the mother of my kids. That's all

3 I care about.

4 Q. (By Mr. Phillips) okay. All right.

5 A. Truly. .

6 Q. Did you say earlier that you had been

7 threatened, or did I misunderstand that?

8 A. No. The the media the way that was

9 being --

10 Q. The way the media did?

11 A. Yeah. the way the media was presenting
12 these things.

13 Q. Okay?

14 A. Saying -- giving all the details, and
15 we're going with this story. regardless. That's 
16 that was the scariest.

11 Q. Right.
18 A. I'm thinking. you know, what am I going to
19 read in the paper in the morning?
20 Q. I understand that. So there was never a
21 threat coming from the governor?s office or any of
22 his people or calls from an attorney or
23 representative of the governor in any way?
24 A. No, sir.
25 Q. Okay. One more question, real quick.
AUMNSUHGAHOHSERWCES
Phone:18002803376 Fut3?$644d334

 

 

 

 

 

HEARWHS 
Pagess
1 Did you give the media or names released
2 to the media of any of friends of your wife or
3 your friends or so that they could contact them and
4 get statements from them and so forth? 
5 A. I don't recall giving anything to the 3
6 media. I gave my lawyer the few names of the people
1 that knew the story as I did from my understanding.
8 Q. Okay. So your role would have been
9 passing information along to your attorney?
10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Q. Okay. And then one more thing, real
12 quick, that I happened to think about. Earlier, I
13 think, if I understood you right, you said something
14 about what prompted this e-mail on 1/3 of '15 to
15 Sheena Groitens, was that you saw your wife's car,
16 as I understood it, at his home; is that right? .
l? A. Yeah. 0n the street. 
18 Q. Okay. And so, typically, I think you said 5
19 after that, that she would park her car somewhere
20 else and walk up there to his house. Why would she
21 be careless on that day and have her car parked
22 right out there in plain sight?
23 A. During that period, she was parking at a
24 different garage -- a farther garage because the
25 Chase Park Plaza garage was closed for construction,

wusnab?sus chaited44334
demon
PI9067
1 the time, I had seen on her phone a few weeks prior,
2 numbers that were connected to his phone they
3 were his phone number. I had always known for many
4 years that she had a crush on this guy and that --
5 Q. For how long did you think she had a
6 crush 
A. I knew she had a crush on him for a number
8 of years.
9 Q. A number of years?
10 R. Yeah, yeah. since she had met him. He
11 was just a client that she spoke of in a way that
12 she wouldn't talk about other clients. And we were
13 married for ten years. I know when, you know, my
14 wife at the time, was attracted to another man. And
15 this wasn't the first time.
16 So seeing those types of patterns and
17 going through a number of weeks of not sleeping,
18 knowing that my wife had been texting and calling
19 and potentially meeting with another man had
20 destroyed me, and she wasn't telling me.
21 It's a pretty common practice by me in my
22 profession, and the way that my mind works -- I'm
23 not very organized --
24 Q. I'm sorry. Back up. you said it?s a
25 pretty common practice for you to audio people?

 

 

HEARHQG 

 

 

 

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Pagess
1 but I knew she had left the house at an hour that
2 wasn't normal, so on my way to work or wherever I
3 was going, I would drive by there and see if the car
4 was there.
5 And you've got to remember, this was the
6 time right after a reconciliation period that
I seemed to be going wellconcerned -- all of a sudden, I was cut offemotional disaster. I was sleeping
10 an hour and a half a night. It was the worst time
11 in my entire life.
12 But during this second reconciliation
13 period the deterioration of that reconciliation,
14 I was able to really grasp life and accept things
15 and move on. But that summer was --
16 MR. PHILLIPS: Okay. Thank you.
1? MS. MITTEN: I have no questions.
18 MR. BARNES: Representative Lauer.
19 MS. LAUER: Yes, Mr. Chair. Thank you.
20 EXAMINATION
21 BY MS. LAUER:
22 Q. What was your reason for audio taping this
23 conversation?
24 A. Well, I mean, just like I said about the
25 summer, I was an emotional wreck. My my wife at
ALARBIIHGNUONSERWCES
Phons:1.800.200.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334

Pagess
1 A. No, no, no. To audio -- let me finish.
2 To use my phone as, like, a memo pad.
3 First of all, I have to drive a lot because my
4 children are in two different school districts, and
5 I I?m in music -- I do music for a living. So
6 it?s a habit, instead of writing down a memo or
I jotting down in a notebook, I will use the audio
8 recorder to say, I have to be at T?Eleven at
9 so?and-so time, or I have a song idea, and I'll sing
10 into my phone. And, You know, I?ve done that a lot.
11 I've -- I've never recorded anybody before, but I
12 recorded myself taking notes, a lot of songs, all
13 sorts of things. And all you know is that something
14 had happened on the let, when my wife wasn?t
15 sleeping for a number of days. No sleep. Something
16 was tearing her up. I had been torn up for a number
11 of weeks. And on Wednesday morning at 3:00 a.m. on
13 my drive to work that day, she had called me to tell
19 me that she needed to speak to me. And I knew that
20 whatever it was going to be from the sound of her
21 voice, it was going to devastate me. So I asked her
22 not to tell me prior to me going to work and to tell
workday.
24 I left the office around 11:30 or noon,
25 picked her up, took her to the parking lot had
ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
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HEAHNG SEVZWB

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pagese
1 been up since three, had not slept, really, in
2 weeks, and knew that something huge was happening.
3 I also knew that it was my legal right to record her .
4 in Missouri in Missouri under the law. So I I
5 put the phone in the cup holder, hit record, knowing 
6 this was going to be a long and detailed
I conversation to which I was not going to be
3 emotionally ready to handle all the details.
9 It's as easy of an answer as I can give.
10 That was my motive. Did I know anything like this
11 was coming? Absolutely not. I had no clues. I
12 thought she was going to tell me that she was
13 beginning something on the phone, because that's all
14 I had had prior to that. I had no idea any of this
15 was coming.
16 Q. So using your terms that you used that
17 mechanism as a way as memo recorder, basically 
13 A. Yeah. It?s called voice memos.
19 Q. So having that conversation as a
20 quote/unquote memo, what was your purpose what
21 were you going to do with it as a memo? what were
22 you going to do with it at that point, then?
23 A. I knew that if we were going to reconcile
24 and other conversations were going to go on, if I
25 had learned anything -- if she told me anything that
ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
malaria.? Phone 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334
Htamwo:esooe
Fags71
performing well as an employee or as a father, and I
2 needed to figure out how to sleep. I had talked to
3 my doctor and said, I needed Xanax to sleep. I
4 needed to recalibrate.
5 So I wasn?t able to take in everything
6 right off the bat. So I was I laid low and just
I kind of tried to take care of myself during that
8 period and focus on -- I wasn?t focused on too much
9 except for that and hopefully saving my marriage.
10 That's really all I focused on until something
11 clicked and she said, I don?t want to be with you.
12 Q. So your intent is on saving your marriage.
13 You indicated that you are protective of her -- I
14 think that was your word a while ago -- and that you
15 are in a good relationship -- you want to be in a
16 good relationship with her because you're parents of
17 the children; right?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. So why were you looking for discrepancies,
20 then, as if to try to catch her in something?
21 A. Because there were phone calls and texts
22 that were being hidden from me. I wanted to know
23 the truth. I want to have a relationship that's
24 always based on honesty and truth. when I say that,
25 I'm protecting her 

 

 

 

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Page70
1 was different, I was going to be able to compare it
2 to the initial story.
3 Q. So you were looking to catch her in some
4 discrepancies?
5 A. I was looking to catch her in some
6 minimalization of it. Because you?ve got to
I remember, I didn?t know, necessarily, what was
8 coming. I had just known that in the past, if I
9 suspected her of doing something or expected any
10 human of doing some, in an initial confession or
11 discussion, they're going to minimize their role and
12 minimize details and minimize something. It?s going
13 to be a concise version. So I just needed something
14 to compare it to.
15 Q. So how long after 3/21 did you start
16 driving by the house and kind of trying to find out
17 where she was at?
18 A. Probably not until the end of the second
19 reconciliation I'm sorry of the
20 reconciliation.
21 Q. What time was that?
22 A. We're talking May May, June 
23 actually, probably -- yeah, May. I was a wreck.
24 And I remember in April and May, I was trying to
25 recalibrate myself. I knew that I was not
ALARBIIHGNHONSERVKES
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HEARWKESMNZOE
Page72
1 MR. BARNES: Representative, if we could
2 go back to I think we?re now getting -- we're
3 straying --
4 Ms. LAUER: I?m sorry.
5 MR. BARNES: All right. Thank you.
6 I'd like to get back on track.
I Q. (By Ms. Lauer) In the transcript on
8 page 10, it says, "This won't leave the car."
9 A. Sure.
10 Q. And it did.
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. So why is that discrepancy, then? What
13 happened -- why is there -- why did you say, This
14 will not leave the car -- this conversation will not
15 leave the car, then go to these extents to keep a
16 tape, share it with an attorney, and it ends up
17 public?
13 A. Okay. Again, when this all came and I
19 really found out all of the details, you got to
20 remember that I feared for my life.
21 Q. By whom? Who did you think was going
22 
23 A. With this man and his commercials with his
24 guns and the millions of dollars going to politics
25 and this whole game that you hear about and
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Page73
1 conspiracy this and this person ends up dead and
2 this person is missing and all this kind of crap --
3 I 100 percent feared for my life from the guy that's .
4 on TV holding guns talking about this and talking 
5 about that. 
6 Now, knowing that he had just threatened
I my wife and I just heard this for the first time.
and all I'm concerned about is my marriage and
9 whether I can fix this and whether I?m getting all
10 of the details from this encounter. of course I?m
11 going to say. This won?t leave the car. because I
12 never planned on it leaving the car. Never. Never.
13 My intent was -- and my hope was for -- and I would
14 think anybody in that position -- if you can put i
15 yourself in that position for a second. I'm a a
16 destroyed man hearing about his wife with another i
17 man. My hope. as small as it may have been, was
13 that my marriage was going to survive this and this
19 would all be in the past -- between me and her in a
20 van. That was the hope. That was the hope all the
21 way until December, when all of this 
22 MR. WATKINS: December of what year?
23 A. December of last year, when I was -- I
24 felt forced my hand was forced to release this
25 thing to protect what was happening. Because if
ALARIS LITIGATIONSERVICES
manners Phone: 1.300.280.3378 Fax: 314.644.1334

Page75
happened, because she then confessed to me that she
2 went back there during in between the
3 reconciliation periods. He was calling and trying
4 to FaceTime her and he ended up in the salon in
5 October. When all of that became clear that this is
6 a relationship. but I don't know all the details. I
7 don?t know what they discussed; all I know is it?s
8 probably likely that if they had a relationship to
9 the intimate degree that they did. she probably told
10 him that he I'm sorry -- she probably told --
11 MR. BARNES: Let's stop. I'm going to
12 stop -- we are far in the realm of speculation
l3 and again. if we could 
14 MS. LAUER: That was beyond what I had
15 asked. That's fine.
16 MR. BARNES: Okay.
17 Q. (By Ms. Loner} On page 28 -- sorry 22
18 and 20, you stated that she was half raped and
19 blackmailed. and then on page 28, you said that she
20 was raped and blackmailed on the transcript. So to
21 what degree did you report that or address that?
22 A. Okay. I -- listen, that was my reaction
23 to what I was being told. I still think -- again.
24 if I had reported anything or the only thing is.
25 you are dealing with a destroyed man sitting in a

 

 

 

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Page74
1 somebody else had already had it I don't know how
2 they were going to spin things. I knew that I
3 hadn't edited anything. It can be proved that I
4 hadn't edited anything. This is her telling a story
5 about what happened to her. And if somebody else
6 had the thing. you Can manipulate all sorts of audio
7 to serve a purposef and I didn't know who or what
8 side or what group or what politics were going to
9 play into this. where they can manipulate and use
10 that to then harm my family or harm her reputation
11 or defend themselves in something they were going to
12 have to admit. This is a political game that these
13 people play, and I want nothing in it.
14 So I said. Okay. I'll sacrifice my do
15 you know how embarrassing this is to have everybody
16 hear all of this stuff and me damn near crying and
1? groveling and all of that. It would take an insane
18 person to release that.
19 Q. (By Ms. Lauer} At what time did you ever
20 consider getting rid of the audio?
21 A. As soon as my marriage was final. This
22 meant nothing to me. I didn't listen to it; I
23 didn't do anything with it except for. Oh. my God.
24 if this man suspects that she told me, which I --
25 anyone would assume that that conversation had
ALARBIIHGNUONSERWCES
melons us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.844.1334
HEARHHG 
Page?6
1 van still hoping that his marriage was reconcilable.
2 I was trying to save my marriage. I loved my wife.
3 and I wanted her back. I lost her for this moment
4 in my head. I lost her for a moment in the past.
5 and I was looking for the future. and all I thought
6 was. This woman is telling me something that
I happened to her. I love this woman, and she's been
8 violated.
9 I don?t know what you want from me. I
10 mean, I?m -- you got more words than I'm willing to
11 say. because I'm not going to listen to these tapes.
12 You think this is something I want to relive and --
13 Q. I'm just -- no, I'm not asking that; I?m
14 just asking what you did in response to that --
15 having that statement.
16 A. I tried to save my marriage.
11 Q. So then 
18 A. I tried save 
19 Q. How many times did you follow her?
20 A. May I respond to that I never followed
21 her.
22 Let me respond to what you said. though.
23 I was trying to save my marriage. The only thing
24 that was important to me was to save the marriage.
25 and nothing was going to do but discussing things
ALARIS LITIGA110N SERVICES
mam-Isms Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.614.1334



 

 

 

 

 

Paga77
1 with my wife and trying to get everything out in the
2 open and honest and keeping it between me and her.
3 If you're asking why I didn't report anything,
4 because I certainly didn't see it helping my
5 marriage. And I?ll tell you what, I didn't care
6 about anything but my marriage at the time.
7 Q. okay.
8 MS. LAUER: Thank you. Mr. Chair.
9 MR. BARNES: Can we take a five-minute
10 recess?
11 IR recess was taken.)
12 MR. BARNES: Representative Austin.
13 MR. AUSTIN: No questions.
14 MR. BARNES: Rhoads.
15 MR. RHOADS: No questions.
16 MR. BARNES: Representative Pierson.
11 MR. PIERSON: No questions. Mr. Chair.
18 MR. BARNES: It's always I will have no
19 questions at this time either.
20 I'm always reluctant to say I've got no
21 further questions.
22 MR. WATKINS: For the record. my client
23 will make himself available for supplemental
24 requests for information, documentation. anything
25 above and beyond that we haven't already given you.
ALARBIIHGNHONSERWCES
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HENHNG astute
Page79
I devastating or possibly bad for me, and that is
2 devastating. I just want you guys to know I'm here
3 for you. and I'll do what's legally required of me.
4 but this is not my fight. I have moved on. My
5 children are awesome and healthy and have moved on, 
6 and this doesn't benefit them, and it ain?t my 
1 fight.
8 MR. BARNES: Thank you. Today's hearing
9 is adjourned.
10 (The hearing adjourned at 4:38 p.m?monotheim

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PBQOTE
1 We're not aware of. but if there is something that
2 triggers, perhaps. the need to disclose something
3 else, he's ready, willing, and able. and that
4 includes a response to supplemental questions that
5 you may have.
6 MR. BARNES: okay. And we appreciate
7 that, and we appreciate your willingness to cone
3 down here.
9 And we already voted to close Monday, so
10 we will close that.
11 THE WITNESS: Can I make a statement real
12 quick?
13 I'm here for you guys; I'm here for my
14 state; I'm here for my country. This is not my
15 fight. Contrary to whatever people would like to
16 spin this into and put on me, I'll take the
11 shrapnel. I don't care about this. I don't -- if
18 my ex?wife -- this is not her fight; this is not my
19 fight. I don't want anything to do with anything
20 that she doesn?t want anything to do with. All I
21 care about is my children. That's all I cared about
22 from the get-go. You question what you want. I
23 truthfully don't care what people think of me I
24 really don?t. I just knew that I felt like I had a
25 choice between something extremely bad and
ALARIS SERVICES
mala?sms Phone: 1.000.280.3376 Fax: 3146441334
HEANNG 
Pageao
1 CERTIFICATE REPORTER
2
3 I, Lise Ballalatak. a Certified Court
4 Reporter for the State of Missouri, do hereby certify
that the witness whose testimony appears in the
6 foregoing hearing was duly sworn by me; the testimony
I of said witness was taken by me to the best of my
8 ability and thereafter reduced to typewriting under my
9 direction: that I am neither counsel for. related to.
10 nor employed by any of the parties to the action in
11 which this hearing was taken. and further that I am
12 not a relative or employee of any attorney or counsel
13 employed by the parties thereto, nor financially or
14 otherwise interested in the outcome of the actionLisa Ballalatak
19 . Missouri Supreme Court
20 Certified Court Reporter
ALARIS LITIGA110N SERVICES
?whimsy: Phone; 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 3145441334

SPECIAL INVESTIGATIVE
COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT

Monday, March 12. 2018

Jefferson City Poiice Department
4 1 Monroe Street

Jefferson city.

COMMITTEE MEMBERS:

Representative
Representative
Representative
Representative
Representative
Representative
Representative

Missouri 65101

Jay Barnes Chair

Donaid Vice-Chair
Kev1n Austin

Shawn Rhoads

Jean1e_Lauer

Gina_Mitten

Tommie Pierson Jr.

 

Also present: Bryan Stheiderer. Lega} Anaiyst
Aiex Curchin
Aiixandra Haiien. Minority Counsel

REPORTED BY: Beveriy Jean eentch. CCR NO. 640
Court Report1ng
11 East Broadwayl Suite 310
Coiumbia. Missouri 65203
573.999.2662

 

 

 

1
TIGER COURT REPORTING. LLC
573.999.2662

 

 


INDEX
Page


Questions by Representative Barnes 6
Questions by Representative 19
Questions by Representative Mitten 22
Questions by Representative Lauer 24
Questions by Representative Austin 28

Questions by Representative Pierson Jr. 32

 

 



TIGER COURT REPORTING. LLC
573.999.2662

APPEARANCES
For the witness:

JASON LUDWIG
Attorney at Law
CARSON COIL
515 East High Street #301
Jefferson City. Missouri 65191
573.636.2177

 

2
TFGER COURT REPORTING. LLC
573.999.2662

 

 

(March 12. 2018)

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Caii this hearing of
the House Speciai Committee on Investigative Oversight
to order. Mr. Secretary. piease ta11 the ro11.

SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative Barnes.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Here.

SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative 

REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: Here.

SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative Mitten.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Here.

SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representativo Lauer.

REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Here.

SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative Austin.

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Here.

SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative Rhoads.

REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: Here.

SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative Pierson Jr.

REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON: Here.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: seven present. We
have a quorum and. in fact, everyone is here.

I wouid now move that we vote to ciose
wednesday morning's hearing at 8:00 a.m. we are going
to hear from Michaei Hafner who pursuant to a subpoena
we sent to him has provided the committee with documents
about the disciosure and use of a 1ist of donors for The

 

TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC
573.999.2662

 

 

mmummawmp






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Mission Continues to the Greitens campaign in early
2015. Discussion on the motion to close? seeing none,
I now move that we do. in fact. close that hearing. Hr.
Secretary. please call the roll.

SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative Barnes.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Aye.

SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative Phillips.

REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: Aye.

SECRETARY CURCNIN: Representative Mitten.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Aye.

SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative Lauer.

REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Aye.

SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative Austin.

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Aye.

SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative Rhoads.

REPRESENTATIVE Aye.

SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative Pierson Jr.

REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON: Aye.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Seven ayes. zero nos
vote to close wednesday's hearing. And with that, we
are ready for today's witness.

Good afternoon. counsel. would you like to
note your presence for the record?

MR. LuowIG: My name is Jason Ludwig of the
law firm Carson E. Coil. I'm here on behalf of 

 

 

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anyone asks you where you don't understand the question.
please just ask them to repeat because it's important
that if you're going to give an answer you understand
what the exact question is that's being asked.

A. okay.

Q. In addition to that. if you need to stop for
any reason to take a break. just let us know and we can
do that. okay?

A. Okay. Thank you.

Q. How. you should also note before starting that
this Committee. the resolution which created it gives us
the authority to redact names and information for the
privacy of witnesses. and we udll. in fact. be doing
that. So your name will not be displayed out in full
for the public. We will. in fact. redact your name from
any report. I want to make sure you understood that
before testifying.

A. Yes. thank you.

Q. okay. How long have you known 

A. I've known since kindergarten since
five years old. I'm 35 so about 30 yearsschool together?

A. Yes. we did.

Q. So elementary school?

A. Elementary school.

 

 



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REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Before we start. I'm
going to swear you in to start. we'll just talk about
kind of the ground rules what we're doing here today.
okay?
(witness sworn.)
being sworn. testified as Follows.
QUESTIONS BY REPRESENTATIVE BARNES:

Q. Can you state your name?

A- 

Q. And can you spell your name for the court
reporter?

A- It's 

Q. Ms. W. have you ever testified in a
deposition before? 

A. No. sir.

Q. okay. So just let me give you some brief
ground rules. This is not a deposition but it is a lot
like a deposition that we have a court reporter here.
when we ask you questions. you cannot answer by nodding
your head yes or shaking your head no. You have to
actually say yes or no so that our court reporter can
make a record of your answers. Do you understand that?

A. Yes. I do.

Q. In addition to that. if there?s anything that

 

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Q. Middle school?

A. We went to Catholic school. So it's through
8. eighth grade.

Q. Did you go to high school?

A. No. we did not.

Q. okay. But you've known each other even
through high school?

A. Yes.
Q. And even after high school?
A. Yes.

Q. Have you worked with 

A. No. I have not.

0. Just life long friends; is that how you
describe it?

A. Yes.

Q. Does have a reputation for
truthfulness and honesty?

A. Yes. she does.

Q. And what is that reputation?

A. She's never lied to me about anything. She's
pretty honest about her life in general.

Q. Did ever speak to you about contact
she had with Eric Greitens?

A. She did.

Q. when was the first time she spoke with you

 

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about contacts with him?

A. Approximate1y mid March of 2015.

Q. Do you remember where you were when she spoke
to you about it?

A. Yes. I do. we were at my parents' home.

Q. And where is that?

A. That's in 

Q. Not address. just city.

A. St. Charies. Missouri.

Q. Is that a home that the two of you had hung
out in and p1ayed in as chiidren?

A. Yes.

Q. were your parents home at the time?

A. I beiieve my mother was home.

Q. Was there anyone e1se who was invo1ved in the
conversation you had with 

A. No.

Q. How did it come about that you were there on
that day speaking with 

A. we were going to go to dinner and we met at my
mom and dad's house.

Q. And then before you went to dinner you had a
conversation?

A. Yes. she gave me a book.

Q. okay. And can you te11 me what the book was?

 

 

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Q. And what day of the week was this? Do you
remember?

A. I don't reca11.

Q. okay. Did she speak to you then about
Mr. Greitens?

A. Yes.

Q. And what did she te11 you then?

A. she described an encounter that she had with
him at his home.

Q. Go ahead and describe what she described in
that encounter.

A. she said that she went to his home and that
when she entered his home he had checked her for bugs as
far as being bugged. wired I guess, and made her disrobe
into one of his dress shirts. And be checked her purse
and her beiongings for any devices. recording devices.

Q. And then what did she te11 you happened after
that?

A. I think -- or she toid me that they spoke on
the couch or some sitting area for a iittie bit and then
they had gone down to a iower area of the home. I don't
know if it's a basement or just some 1ower part of the
home.

Q. what happened in the iower part of the home
that she described to you?

 

 



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was his book. Eric Greitens' book. I don't
know the name of it.

Q. what did she te11 you about Mr. Greitens and
her relationship with him at that point in time?

A. Just that she spoke fond1y of him. said that
she cut his hair and that she thought I wouid rea11y
1ike the book. and she gave it to me as 1ike an eariy
birthday present. My birthday is in March. the end of
March.

Q. And did she say anything e1se at that time
about Mr. Greitens?

A. Nothing in particu1ar.

Q. when was the next time you spoke with her
about Mr. Greitens?

A. Approximateiy the beginning of Aprii 2015.

Q. And where were you at the time you had that
conversation with her?

A. At her home in Missouri.

0. what were the circumstances of your being at
the home?

A. coffee. we were just having coffee.

Q. Did she ask to speak with you?

A. No. It was something that we had done for
several years. just to go over in the morning before

work or schooi and have coffee together.

 

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A. she described to me being heiped into some
type of device that was hanging. some type of workout
equipment that was hanging and having her hands tied
behind her back, that she was b1indfo1ded. and that he
had pieasured her with his hands at that point.

Q. okay. And then is there anything she said
after that point in time?

A. After that -- During that discussion after she
had described that she said that after he had
b1indfoided her that she had saw a fiash type and
recognized that he had taken a photograph of her. and he
said that if you mention my name that put this out
there or put this on the Internet. something to that
effect. And she got very upset and wanted to get down.
wanted him to get her down.

Q. And what did she describe to you happened
after that?

A. I don't reca11 exactiy. but she got down. he
heiped her down. and was trying to comfort her. she was
very upset. Freaking out was how she described it. And
said that -- He said that de1eted it. I deieted it."

REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: I'm sorry. wouid you
repeat that?

THE wItness: He said that he de1eted the
photograph and was apoiogetic.

 

 

 

 

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'REPRESENTATIVE BARNES:

Q. And what did she describe to you that happened
after that point in time?

A. From what I recaii, she gathered her ciothing
and got dressed. And at that point in this conversation
she had toid me that he was apoiogetic. I think they
sat in the same sitting area or some sitting area and
taiked and then she ieft. But she had forgotten her
keys.

Q. okay. And did she taJk to you about what
happened iater that afternoon?

A. Yeah. I don't know the exact time frame as
far as how much time went by before she went and
retrieved her keys. but she went back to the house and
got her keys at his home.

Q. Did she te11 you what happened when she
returned to the home?

A. I don't reca11 everything about that. I
beiieve that she had said she was very upset about
the situation and embarrassed.

Q. How wouid you describe her demeanor when she
was reiaying this information to you?

A. she was embarrassed but she was not hyper but
just sort of excitabie when she was teiling me the
story. Aimost iike can you beiieve this type of

 

 

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had with Mr. Greitens?

MR. LuowIG: During that conversation or
subsequent conversations?

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: During that
conversation.

THE During that conversation. the
on1y thing that she had realiy taiked about in that
conversation was that her husband did not want her to do
his hair any further and come into the saion any more.
BY REPRESENTATIVE BARNES:

Q. You mean hr. Greitens' hair?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you have further discussions with her
about interactions Mr. Greitens?

YES.

Q. what was the substance of those discussions?

A. Another encounter was him coming into the
saion. I don't reca11 if it was after her aiready
asking him not to but that he had come in again and
smoothed things over with her. toid her that he couidn?t
stop thinking about her. that he was sorry again.

Q. And did she describe to you what happened
after those efforts by Mr. Greitens to smooth things
over?

A. She spoke fondly of him again.

 

 



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excitabie is the oniy word I can describe it I guess.
she wasn't hystericai or anything. Upset.

Q. Did she te11 you anything eise on that morning
and beginning of Aprii 2015?

A. Not that I recaii from that conversation.

Q. Did you have any further conversation with her
about Mr. Greitens that you recaJ1?

A. Yes.

Q. So that we can give the committee a road map
here. how many different conversations do you recaJ1
having after that day?

A. we've had severai.

Q. Had severai. Okay. Do you recali any
conversations in particuiar. the next conversation you
had w?th her after the beginning of Aprii 2015?

A. The next conversation that we had was about
discussing with her husband and confessing to her
husband about the encounter.

Q. And what was the substance of that
conversation?

A A. That she had toid her husband what had
happened and toid him everything that had happened
between her and Eric Greitens.

Q. Regarding her interactions with Eric Greitens,
did she te11 you anything about further encounters she

 

 

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Q. Did she speak to you about any subsequent
interactions she had after what you described as the
visit to smooth things over?

A. I don?t know when this incident occurred. I?m
not sure if it was from the originai encounter or not. I
don't know. but there's pieces of things that we've
talked about and she had described an encounter where
she was reaiiy upset and that she had given him orai sex
and she said that she just did it so that she couid
leave.

Q. Do you recaJi when she to1d you that?

A. It was after our originai conversations. I
don't know if it was a separate occasion that that
happened or if it was from the originai encounter at
their home.

Q. How often do you speak with 

A. Fairiy often.

Q. okay. And so wou'ld you describe as
one of your best friends?

A. Yes.

Q. So to the extent you've had conversations. and
I?m asking you about specific detai1s of the dates in
which you speak, wouid you say you speak with her so
often that it is difficuit for you to identify the exact
dates and times upon which information was re1ayed to

 



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mmummamNIyou?

A. Yes, other than the originai conversation when
she gave me the book and then the foiiowing conversation
in the beginning of Aprii. I reca11 those dates mainiy
because it was around my birthday and that was the first
I had ever heard of him or anything about him.

Q. As to the first conversation. she gave you a
gift?

A. Yes.

Q. Are there other conversations you had with her
that stick out in your mind about interaction she had
with Mr. Greitens? 

A. Yes.

Q. And can you reTate to us the substances of
those conversations and to the extent you recaii the
times on which you had those conversations?

A. The on1y -- There's I guess two conversations
that stick out that were around probabiy that summer of
2015. maybe possibiy June roughly in that area. One was
that his wife had come into the saion not to get her
hair done by but by another 1ady at the sa'lon.
And she was she feit very upset about that. she said
that she seemed iike a rea11y nice woman and she was
very ashamed.

Q. And do you reca11 the other thing that sticks

 

 

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he. Eric Greitens. had asked her if she had s1ept with
anyone and she said my husband and he siapped her.

Q. And this is what she reTayed to you. This
wouid have been --

A. More recent.

Q. in the 1ast two months?

A. Yes.

Q. so since the news broke?

A. Yes. she never toid me about that prior.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Thank you. And now so
our process here is. and I apoiogize for the 1ength of
this process. but each member has the opportunity to ask
you questions. And so we're going to start with the
vice chair and the ranking member and we're going to go
in order of seniority. Representative 
PHILLIPS: Thank you.

Mr. chair.
QUESTIONS BY REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS:

Q. can Phi11ips. State Representative District
138. which is down by Tab1e Rock Lake near Branson. Do
you ca11 

A. Yes.

Q. okay. I'm going to ca?i her that in reference
to my questions. First of a11. though. have you spoken
to anyone that has a1ready testified before this

 

 

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out to you?

A. Yes.

Q. And what is that?

A. That she had. and I don't reaiiy reca11 a
whoie iot about this one. but mainiy that she had 1et
him into the salon before hours. and I don't reaiiy know
why we were taiking about that other than her just
saying that there was oniy a few occasions they had been
aione together.

Q. Is there anything eise you can reca11 that
sticks out to you about the conversations you had with
her about interactions with Mr. Greitens?

A. Recentiy I had specificaiiy caiied her and
asked her about him hitting her. siapping her. Eric
Greitens. and she toid me that that was true and that
she was embarrassed. And I asked her specificaily
because one of my sisters had read that story. I hadn't
seen it anywhere and they had asked me about it. I said
that I didn't think that that couid be true because
u. wasn't -- that's not 'Iike her to 'Iet
someone physicaiiy harm her. man. woman or anyone.

She's not a vioient person.

And I ca11ed her and asked her and she toid me
about that. And the specifics of what happened, I don't
know where they were, I don't know that I asked. But

 

 

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committee since we started this process? Have you
talked to other witnesses?

A. Other than n?

Q. Right.

A. no.

Q. But you have spoken to since she
testified?

A. I spoke with her on a Friday. Friday. this
past Friday. So I don't know when she testified.

Q. Did she share with you what she testified to
us. what she toid us?

A. No. she did not.

Q. Do you have any know'l edge of receiving
any kind of compensation for being quiet on this
subject? she's not spoken to the media at a11 and has
assumed a certain amount of anonymity to this point. Do
you have any know?edge of her receiving any kind of
compensation from anyone?

A. No. I do not.

Q. she didn't share anything iike that with you?

A. No.

Q. Knowing her 1ike you do. when she toid you the
story about her and eric Greitens first encounter. 1ed
to the basement and a11 that. did you think it was odd
that she continued to see him after that?

 

 



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A. Yes. I did.

Q. Did she share with you why she continued to
see him after that?

A. Yes.

q. what did she say?

A. she said that she didn't want to feel 1ike 

I think she believed that he cared about her, and I
tried explaining to her that he didn't care about you if
he would do something iike that. but I believed that she
thought he cared about her.

Q. Once the story broke, did she ever share with
you what she thought about the source of releasing the
information to the media?

MR. LuowIG: Do you understand?

THE I believe I do. As far as her
husband. ex-husband?
BY PHILLIPS:

Q. Did she believe he's the one that released the
information?

A. Yes.

Q. She based that on something she told you about
a conversation with him or just suspected that he would
be the obvious one to do it?

A. No. we both saw the channel 4 news and
recognized his voice and his partially blurred face.

 

 


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- regarding any other sexual encounters with Eric?

A. No. other than that oral sex one that she said
she just wanted to leave.

Q. Okay. And then I just want to make sure that
I'm not mischaracterizing your testimony here that you
don't recall if that was -- the oral sex was at the
first encounter she had with Eric or a later encounter?

A. Right. I don't know for a fact. I can only
assume.

Q. okay. Do you believe that she told you that
at some point and you just don't remember or is that a
possibility I guess would be the better way to put it?

A. I don?t believe she told me.

Q. Exactly when that happened?

A. Yes. I don't believe she told me.

Q. You don't believe Let?s just make sure we
get our record clear. so you don?t be?lieve that 
ever told you specifically when the oral sex Eric
occurred?

A. That's correct.

Q. And you don?t recall any other details about
that incident of oral sex for lack of a better way to
put it?

A. No. other than that she felt as though she did
that -- that he just wanted to get off is what She said

 

 

 

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PHILLIPS: Okay. I think
that's all. Hr. Chair. Thank you.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Representative Mitten.
QUESTIONS BY REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN:

Q. Good afternoon. I'm Gina Mitten from the St.
Louis area and I appreciate you being here today. First
of all real quickly. when Representative Phillips asked
you about sort of your feelings about Ms. -
continuing to see Mr. Greitens. and I probably don't
have this quite down yet so bear with me, but you said
that a indicated that she thought Bric cared about
her and you indicated that you didn't think Eric cared
about her because he wouldn't. quote. do that to you if
he did. what do you mean by do that in that sentence?

A. Take that picture of her.

Q. okay. Did ever talk to you about having
any fear of Eric?

A. The only time she mentioned that was in one of
the original conversations was that when he said that to
her about the photograph or that incident that he
sounded different and that she was afraid at that point.

Q. And when you say the original conversations,
you're meaning the mid march. early Apri1 conversations?

A. Uh-huh. yes.

Q. Did you have any other conversations with

 



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and that if she did that that she could leave.

Q. okay. So did she indicate some fear during
that -- during the encounter that included oral sex or
is that your impression?

A. That's my impression that she was
uncomfortable and wanted to leave and that if she did
that that he would let her leave.

Q. Did you get the impression that believed
if she did not perform oral sex she would not be able to
leave?

A. I didn?t -- she didn't say that so.

Q. was that your impression though?

A. The only impression I had was just that she
felt uncomfortable that he was prolonging the stay and
that he wanted to get off and that if She did that then
he would let her leave.

MITTEN: Thank you. Thank you
very much. I know this is difficult. so I appreciate
it. No further questions.

BARNES: Representative Lauer.

REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Thank you. Mr. chair.
QUESTIONS BY LAUER:

Q. Good afternoon. Thank you for being here. I
know this is not great fun and you never planned on this
ever in your life probably. I'm Jeanie Lauer. a

 

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Representative from Blue Springs which is near Kansas
city.

So you've known - for a long time which is
great. and would you say that the two of you are
confidants. that you confide in each other?

A. Yes.

Q. Does she have other friends that you feel she
will confide in?

A. Yes.

Q. who might those be?

A. I don't know her other -- I don't know her
other personal friends too well. I know she has sisters
that she would probably confide in and maybe two or
three friends that she would confide in that I don't
personally know.

Q. And during the time you've known her. has she
been an individual who gives you the straight scoop or
at sometimes might she dramatize things?

A. she's not a dramatic person. she'll tell me
her opinion but she's not judgmental in any way. She's
open-minded to everyone.

Q. okay. so prior to meeting Mr. Greitens. how
would you describe her demeanor?

A. Prior?

Q. Just as her.

 

 

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A. Yes.

Q. And then you also said that that would not be
in her character to have that happen or to -- would you
explain that a little bit? It?s not in her character to
accept it?

A. when I found out about the slapping?

Q. Uh-huh.

A. Yes. That's completely out of character for
her to allow someone to physically harm her in any way.

I say that based on the fact of how she was raised. Her
parents didn't have physical punishment in any way. no
spanking. no slapping. smacking. and just from past
relationships and interactions that either one of us
have had that that was an absolute no for her.

Q. so prior again to this event. if something
like that had happened. what would you anticipate her
reaction would have been to that?

A. If it was her husband or something. she would
have left them.

Q. So why is it then do you think -- I know you
indicated that she thought he cared for her. but given
that physical nature why do you feel she would want to
go back given that she would have left him in another
situation? That's just your opinion.

A. Yeah. The only opinion. and it is just that.

 

 

 

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A. Just as her?

Q. Just her. How is she? How would you describe
her?

A. She's a happy. very good mother. good friend.
good daughter. sister.

Q. And based on what you were saying 

A. Hard worker.

Q. awhile ago you did see a difference then
when she started seeing him and talking about him?

A. Yes. And she was also. you know. going
through a rough marriage at the time. So she had
probably a lot on her plate at that time.

Q. okay. Have you ever known her prior to this
situation having relationships with others outside of
her marriage?

A. no.
Q. so it's not in her character?
A. No.

Q. So when you -- You mentioned that she had
expressed or explained what happened with the physical
nature of the encounter with Mr. Greitens and that you
thought it was not a good deal that he was physical with
her --

A. Yes.

Q. -- yet she continued to see him?

 

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is that she was very embarrassed by what had happened.
She had been called a whore by her husband and felt as
though she was a whore to Eric and was trying to find
some thing that she felt that he cared about her for her
to feel okay with herself. She was very critical of
herself.

LAUER: Thank you very much.
That's all.
QUESTIONS BY REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN:

Q. I'm Kevin Austin. state Representative
District 136. Just a few follow up questions. As I
understood your timeline. I understand you may not be
too clear. the third contact you had with regarding
Eric Greitens was when you discussed about her
confessing to her husband: is that correct?

A. Yeah. The second or third conversation she
had mentioned that she told her husband almost
immediately after the encounter.

Q. The first conversation was mid Harch. second
one as I have it. tell me if I'm wrong. was beginning of
April. The third one. whenever that was. was the
confession to her husband. Have I got the timeline
right?

A. No. I think you do. I just I don't recall
if that second conversation in early April if she had

 

 

 

 

 



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aiready toid me as far as she confessed to her husband
or-if she was just te11ing me about the encounter and
then at another conversation. we had severai
conversations in a short span of time. and I don't
remember if it was from the second conversation or the
third. but within a week's time or very short period of
time she toid me she had confessed to her husband.

Q. May have been your second conversation
concerning Eric Greitens or may have been a subsequent
one but within a short period of time that spring of
2015, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. You said that she spoke fondiy of him again.
Are we now into the summer of 2015?

A. Yes.

Q. Possibiy a June date you said?

A. Yes. or ear1y summer. Tate spring area.

Q. And when she described to you about giving him
ora1 sex. approximateiy when was that?

A. I don't recaii exactiy when the conversation
had. but she had just The oniy thing that I remember
about the conversation was her me that she feit
she was upset that 31} he wanted was to get off and
that he didn't recognize she was upset and she felt he
was proionging the stay; that if she did this that she

 

 

v.2?.mu.pu.q.qq.m

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were. I have an idea of who her cioser friends are.
Q. who is that?
A. There's --

THE WITNESS: Is that okay to answer?

There's iike a I don't know her iast
name. There?s - and I don't know her 'last name but
I think I couid probabiy recaTT it if I thought hard
enough. And there's and 

BY REPRESENTATIVE 

Q. what?

A. 

Q. can you spe11 that?

A. I think it?s Those are just the
friends that I know of that she's ciose with.

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Thank you.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Representative
Pierson.

REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON: Tommie Pierson Jr..
State Representative.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: I'm sorry. I went out
of order. Are you okay? sorry. Representative.

REPRESENTATIVE RHDADS: I don't have any
questions.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: NOW Representative

Pierson. I wondered why you Tooked at me why are you

 

 

 

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eccentric-awn..-

couid Teave.

q. And the conversation. the approximate date is
sometime after that June or Ju1y date when she's
speaking fbndiy of him?

A. Yes. roughiy. I don't reaiiy know exact1y. I
just know that there was another sexuai encounter that I
was aware of and that was that. I don't know when it
happened.

Q. And whereabout in the time frame did she
mention to you about the photo being taken. and correct
me if I misquote you. but eric Greitens wouid have said
to her in a different tone that made her afraid. when
was that conversation?

A. That was that early Aprii conversation.

(1- Has - ever to'ld you about other incidences
of. for 1ack of a better phrase. domestic violence
against her?

A. NO.

Q. Do you know of any that occurred that she
didn?t te11 you about?

A. No.

Q. You mentioned that she had two or three
friends who she confided in. who are those friends? Do
you know the names?

A. I don?t know. She didn't te11 me who they

 

unjanmqm.mu.m.u

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tailing me out of order.
QUESTIONS BY REPRESENTATIVE PIERSDN:

Q. Tommie Pierson. State Representative St. Louis
County. Thank you for being here. Not many questions.
The question I have is around the picture. Did 
ever taJk about the picture?

A. I don?t know that she ever saw it or anything.
She on1y described that she had been aware that he had
taken a picture. I recaii that she had sort of seen
some type of fiash through the cioth or whatever was
biindfoiding her and she was upset and he had said he
deTeted it.

Q. And did that picture or that encounter come up
in any subsequent conversations that you a11 had?

A. Yes. Mainiy because I had said to her he
doesn?t care about you if he did that to you. and I've
said that to her severai times.

Q. was there any conversation in re1ation to the
possibi1ity that the picture was not de1eted?

A. No. not that I recail.

Q. Do you reca11 her sharing with you any other
times where perhaps she was bug checked?

A. Other than that initiai visit. no. not that I
recaii. she didn't mention to me about that.

REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON: Thank you. Thank

 



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you. Mr. Chair.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: I have no further
questions. If any other members of the committee have
further questions? seeing none. that conclude the
testimony. Thank you very much for being here for
driving down tO Jefferson City tO be with us. we
appreciate it greatiy.

THE WITNESS: Thank you.

(witness excused.)

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Do we have any we
voted ciosed Wednesday. I don't think we have anything
eise pending right now uniess anyone eise can think of
something. That wili ?1056 today's hearing of House
Speciai Investigative Committee on Oversight.

(off the record.)

 

 

 

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CERTI FICATE 0F REPORTER

I. Beverly Jean Bentch, CCR No. 640. within the
State of Missouri. do hereby certify that the witness
whose testimony appears in the foregoing questioning was
taken by me to the best Of my and thereafter
reduced to typewriting under my direction; that I am
neither counsei for. reiated to. nor empioyed by any of
the parties to the action in which this questioning was
taken. and further. that I am not a reiative or empioyee
of any attorney or counsei empioyed by the parties

 

eeveriy Jean Bentch. CCR No. 640

 

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Page 1

SPECIAL INVESTIGATIVE COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT

Thursday, April 5, 2018

TAKEN AT
Missouri State Capitol, Room B22
201 West Capitol Avenue
Jefferson City, Missouri

MISSOURI HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES COMMITTEE MEMBERS
Jay Barnes, Chairman
Don Phillips, Vice-Chairman
Gina Mitten, Ranking Minority Member
Jeanie Lauer
Kevin Austin
Shawn Rhoads
Tommie Pierson, Jr.

REPORTED BY:
Tammy F. Ballew
Certified Court Reporter No. 563
Capital City Court Reporting
Post Office Box 446
Jefferson City, Missouri 65102
Telephone: 573~761-4350
E?mail: 


 

 

 

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Page 3
1 I 
2 CHAIRMAN BARNES: We'll call to order
3 Missouri House Special Investigative Committee on
4 Oversight.
5 Mr. Secretary, please call the roll.
6 SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative Barnes?
1 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Here.
8 SECRETARY CURCHIN: Phillips?
9 REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: Here.
10 SECRETARY CURCHIN: Mitten?
ll REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Here.
12 SECRETARY CURCHIN: Lauer?
13_ REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Here.
14 SECRETARY CURCHIN: Austin?
15 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Here.
16 SECRETARY CURCHIN: Rhoads.
1? REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: Here.
13 SECRETARY CURCHIN: Pierson. Jr.?
19 REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON: Here.
20 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Now that we are properly
21 situated where everyone wants to sit, or almost
22 situated, today we?re going to do essentially a mark-up
23 session of a draft report. I've taken comments from
24 various members about points in the Committee report
25 that we need to have discussion on, and I have marked
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Page 2 
I ALSO PRESENT:
2
3 Alixandra Hallen, Minority Counsel: Alex Curchin,
4 Committee Majority Counsel; and Bryan Soheiderer,
5 Legislative AnalystJEFFERSON CITY CAPITAL CITY COURT REPORTING THE LAKE AREA
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1 them on the screen and highlighted in color. And my
2 plan is just to go straight down the list of everywhere
3 that I have highlighted.
4 The first is -- we?ll call this sensitive
5 content warning. I think that due to the nature of the
6 report and the language in it, that it's fair to put
7 this on the cover so that readers can properly be
8 apprised that they're about to see descriptions of an
9 adult nature and, of course, language. Is there any
10 objection to this?
11 GROUP RESPONSE: No.
12 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Seeing none, I'll remove
13 the highlight. Okay.
14 REPRESENTATIVE MITTENrecord real quick?
16 OFF-THE-RECORD DISCUSSION WAS HELD.)
17 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Okay. I'm sorry.
18 Back on the record.
19 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Okay. Back on the record.
20 For the record, the discussion that was just had was
21 regarding how to refer to witnesses in this hearingthe same page as to who is Witness 1, who
23 is Witness 2, who is Witness 3, who is witness 4, so
24 that we are not creating a report whereby we have to
25 have a series of redactions per name.
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Page 5 3 Page 6
1 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Thank you. Mr. Chair. 1 bunch of grammatical changes we need to --
2 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Our first suggested Change 2 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Greiten. So
3 is on Page 2, and there was a suggestion mentioning 3 declined. And he needs to be specific. Thank you.
4 that Mr. Greitens' declining to testify before the 4 CHAIRMAN BARNES: And we can delete this last
5 Committee at this point in time was consistent with his 5 phrase if we want the committee has treated --
5 Constitutional rights. I have no objection to this 6 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: An equal
7 change. If anybody else does. please speak them now. 7 Constitutional right.
8 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: I have no objection. 8 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Well, I don't -- it?s not
9 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: None. 9 an equal Constitutional right before this Committee.
10 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: I have none. 10 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: I guess that's right.
11 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: None. 11 Right. That's true.
12 REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON: None. 12 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Because if we chose to 
13 REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: None. 13 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: You're right.
14 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: This refusal is 14 CHAIRMAN BARNES: -- say you can't, we could
15 consistent with -- is that -- 15 say you can't, but we?re treating CHAIRMAN BARNES: Are we capitalizing? 16 that right.
17 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Yes. 1? REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Yeah. Good.
18 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Did we decide we were going 18 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Okay. Okay. The
19 to capital -- 19 suggestion here. and I don?t like how this is worded at
20 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Yes, we are -- 20 all, the first two sentences here are just --
21 COUNSELOR HALLEN: We have to fix it in all 21 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Wait, wait, wait.
22 of the -- 22 Before we go there. I would just like to again note for
23 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: We need to capitalize 23 the record that when we?re going through that list 
24 it. 24 where are we again, that we will need to go through
25 COUNSELOR HALLEN: There's going to be a 25 and capitalize Committee throughout. There may be some
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Page 7 Page 8
1 other grammatical changes. I don't want to bog us down 5 1 CHAIRMAN BARNES: So we'll take the
2 with that. And I don?t know if this is the appropriate 2 opportunity --
3 time to talk about whether -- what -- you know. how 3 I REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Perfect. Just want
4 we -- how we want to process this through: in that, 4 to be clear that we're all on the same page about that.
5 we?re going to sit here, we?re going to. you know, come 5 you know, the Committee being 
6 to a consensus or vote. perhaps. on making specific 6 CHAIRMAN BARNES: And I think you're right,
7 changes. But my hope would be that then on, perhaps. I the redline form is what we need to do for the next
8 Monday morning. you know, we'll have reports back in 8 thing.
9 the Speaker's office. we?ll all have another 9 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Yeah. Yeah, we'll do
10 opportunity to review -- 10 that.
ll REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Yes. 3 11 CHAIRMAN BARNES: I I think actually we
12 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: -- the collective 12 delete this part. I want to point -- I do want to
13 changes. And at that point. my hope would be that what 13 point out that -- how -- or here's the alternative.
14 we will what I?m thinking is, maybe we'd produce a 14 And I?m just talking out loud here, guys, is we could
15 redline with the grammatical changes that I believe -- 15 delete that part.
16 that the Chair certainly and I have kind of talked 16 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: I would delete the
17 about -- 17 first part. I believe that --
18 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Agreed. 18 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Okay. Is -- hold on.
19 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: -- so that you guys 19 Before I do that, that was a little bit -- that was a
20 see that. 5 20 little bit quick.
21 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Today is about the 21 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: So I?m assuming you
22 substantive changes. 2 22 have a back?up?
23 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: That's fine. 2 23 CHAIRMAN BARNES: I I think -- because I
24 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Scrivener's errors, 24 think that. Representative Austin, it was your
25 grammatical, who cares. 25 suggestion to delete that first part, I think.
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Page 9 Page 10
REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: I just said it was a 1 well. So I I like your statement noting the crunch
2 little too muchdid. But here's 2 we've been under.
3 what I also like, is that I think we do need to say 3 CHAIRMAN BARNES: So what if we keep that. I
4 something about our time constraints. I mean, we?ve 4 want to delete the second part of the paragraph,
5 been asked to do -- Jay, and what you said before is, 5 because we are not -- we're going to get to this vote
6 an investigation that would take law enforcement six 6 on -- on bifurcating the report, but this obviously
7 months to do, we'very much shorter 1 references a second part.
8 time frame. 8 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Well, I have a
9 CHAIRMAN BARNES: We've talked to a number -- 9 problem with that, and here's the thing, first of
10 yeah, we've talked to a number of witnesses and I'm just going to bring a minority
11 don't have, necessarily, the resources to hire folks to 11 caucus perspective here, is that the significant time
this work. So I I think 12 and resource constraints were self?imposed. And I -- I
13 that's fair to keep in. You know, for the part that 13 believe that saying, you know, these are self-imposed
14 we?re doing today, we've -- we?ve talked to all the 14 time and resource constraints. We could have gone
15 mast relevant witnesses, and we?ve done So in a short 15 about this in different -- in a different way. I'm not
16 time frame. 16 suggesting that we should have, but I am saying that
11 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: We have, but there?s 11 I I have a problem with that sentence.
18 still others. I mean 18 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Well, self-imposed,
19 CHAIRMAN BARNES: There are some others. 19 now, you mean because we didn?t vote to extend our
20 There's -- 28 deadline, or self?imposed because we all voted for the
21 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: There there was a 21 resolution in the first place?
22 request made for interrogs, et cetera, and, I mean, so 22 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Well, I mean, to some
23 I -- I think that -- I mean, we have been under a time 23 extent, yes. And, you know, the second -- the second
24 crunch, and this isn't also our full-time job as 24 phrase of that first sentence, I don't -- I mean 
25 legislators. I mean, we?ve had to do other things, as 25 CHAIRMAN BARNES: The resource constraints.

 

 

 

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Page 11 Page 12
REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Right. 1 CHAIRMAN BARNES: And by the Resolution.
2 CHAIRMAN BARNES: You're saying that if we 2 REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON: And the Resolution.
3 had so chosen as a body -- 3 I think we should --
4 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Exactly. 4 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Right.
5 CHAIRMAN BARNES: -- we could have spent 5 REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON: I think we should
6 money to hire private investigators -- 6 point to the Resolution here in some way.
7 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Yes. 7 REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: Why can't we just
8 CHAIRMAN: -- and counsel at this point in 8 say 40 days? Just call it like it is instead of --
9 time. 9 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: There's a reason for
10 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: I don't want to 10 it.
11 diminish what we are doing, but I think that that sort ll REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: That's fine.
12 of -- 12 COUNSELOR HALLEN: Just -- just --
l3 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: I don't disagree With 13 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: That?s fine. I'm
14 what you're saying, Gina, but I'd still like to have 14 fine with just saying that.
15' something in there to show that, you know, we?ve had to 15 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: One, two, three 
16 do this in 40 days or under. 16 one, two, three -- the fifth word, I don?t think that
17 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Could we remove the 17 we need to modify time constraints.
13 second, third -- first, second, third fifth word? 18 COUNSELOR HALLEN: You probably can say that
19 No. The Committee operated under 19 word if you want to.
20 CHAIRMAN BARNES: You know what, let's do 20 CHAIRMAN BARNES: So that?s the question. I
21 this. Let's put this in the parking lot: is that okay? 21 mean, there's no way we could have got 
22 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Yeah. 22 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: No, I understand,
23 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Is it not though 23 I I I -- I just okay.
24 the time frame was somewhat dictated by the 24 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: And then after
25 session? 25 Resolution, delete the rest?

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Page 13

CHAIRMAN BARNES: I think so.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Yes.

CHAIRMAN BARNES: Yes, because we're going to
be -- we're issuing a bifurcated report.

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Okay.

CHAIRMAN BARNES: Do we want to do this, or
do we want to delete the second sentence?

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: I would just take
away -- no, no, no. Go -- after procured to -- in -- a
cost. I think that?s reasonable.

CHAIRMAN BARNES: Well, no, I -- I would take
the whole sentence out.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Okay.

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Okay,

CHAIRMAN BARNES: Okay. And then I'd just
move this up.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Yes, that's fine.

CHAIRMAN BARNES: All right. I'll remove the
highlight from that. Are we in agreement?

REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON: So now at no point
have we referenced the, I guess, criminal
investigation. Is that an issue?

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: I don't think we --
personally, I don't think that we have to spell out

what we're -- what we've done is going to be spelled

omoo-JoxmaswroH




 

 

out in the report itself. We don't have to say, here?s

what we did -- here's what we did, and now here's five

making sure, since we took it out here, to make sure it

Tommie, we're stating the purpose of our investigation?

a criminal investigation going on concurrent to what it

Page 14

pages explaining what we did.
REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: You mean, his
declining to testify because of his -- the criminal 
REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON: Or at least --
REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: That -- that appears
later.

REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON: Okay. I?m just

doesn't appear somewhere else. Because I think in some

way that -- I mean, that ties in to what it is that --

 

that we?re doing.

REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: You're saying,

REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON: No, I'm just wanting

to make sure that if we take out the fact that there's

is that we're doing, I think that?s a piece of
information that in some way should be included in
this.

CHAIRMAN BARNES: And I think we still have
it here.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: We do. It's -- we

have it later.

 

 

 

 

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Page 15

REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON: Okay.

CHAIRMAN BARNES: And then there?s some of it
later.

REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON: Okay. Very good.

REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: So I Mr. Chairman,
I want to go back to the second sentence.

CHAIRMAN BARNES: The second sentence here?

REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: Yes.

CHAIRMAN BARNES: Okay.

REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: It says, the
Committee also notes that Greitens declined to
participate in it?s fact?finding process. Can we put
that 

CHAIRMAN BARNES: Kind of like you're
suggesting, later on in the document?

REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: As long as they?re
consistent, because that wouldn't be consistent as the
other one. It would say --

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Time.

REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: At this point in
time, due to --

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Just at this time,
not point in time; it's just a time.

REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: Do we want to put in

there, due to a criminal case or 

 

 

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REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: I thought there's a
paragraph that specifically talks about that.

SECRETARY CURCHIN: There is, Paragraph 3.
There is. And instead of at maybe at this point in
time, be more deferent by the issuance -- or at the
time of the issuance of this report.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: At this time,
that's -- the report is dated, so it's as of today, you
know.

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: All right. Let's
move on.

CHAIRMAN BARNES: Are we good?

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Less is more.

CHAIRMAN BARNES: Okay. All right. Our
wordsmithing. So here are some ideas. One idea is, to
varying degrees, the members of the Committee -- so
right now it says Witness 1 was a credible witness.
Option one: To varying degrees, the members of the
Committee believe Witness 1 was a credible witness.
That?s one option.

I believe Representative Rhoads had an option
that might be easier.

REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: I just put that the
witness appeared to be a credible witness.

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: I like varying

 

 

 

 

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Page 17 Page 18
1 degrees better. 1 in fact, the truth. Do you think that I'm telling the
2 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: I don't -- I?m not an 2 truth.
3 English major, so you need to word it to where -- 3 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: But --
4 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Let me ask this. Is 4 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Credibility is
5 there any member of this Committee that believes 5 different.
6 witness 1 was not credible? 6 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: But -- but the thing
I REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: I think my -- 1 is though, is what witness 1 said in Committee, how do
8 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: I can't -- I can't 8 we prove that that's exactly what happened?
9 give a blanket statement that to say to everybody i 9 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: That?s not what
10 who reads this that I found her 100 percent credible. 10 you're saying. You're saying, we found her to be
11 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Can we say overall? 11 credible.
12 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: I cannot say that 12 CHAIRMAN BARNES: You're saying -- and I
13 every fact that she told us -- everything that she told 13 think everyone would agree that, overall100 percent truth, because we have nothing to go 14 credible witness. I know there are some members who
15 on. 15 have -- who --
16 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: There?s no way. 5 16 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: She appeared credible
1? That's not what you?re saying though. It's saying, do i 1? to me. She appeared to be.
18 you find her to be credible; that?s different than 18 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Well, Rashomon,
19 saying -- 19 that?s probably a reference that?s --
20 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADSREPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: So, Shawn, you're
21 she's credible? 21 saying we have no proof, so, therefore --
22 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Well, because 22 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: Exactly.
23 well, because if I tell you that the sky is blue, you 2 23 Unfortunately, the problem decide. Do you think that I'm telling the truth or do i 24 don't have somebody else that was involved in that
25 you think that I'm not? That doesn't mean that it is, 25 situation that said x, Y, and happened, yes, that's
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Page 19 Page 20
1 correct. Okay? 1 they'll take from that that I believe everything she
2 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: You never have that. 2 said in there is 100 percent truth.
3 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: Look, I know, but -- 3 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Well, the definition
4 CHAIRMAN BARNES: All right. Hold on, hold 4 of a credible witness is, competent to give evidence
5 on, hold on. Hold on, let's slow down, because we're 5 and is worthy of belief.
6 all interrupting each other. We are all interrupting 6 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Number -- part one,
7 each other, so -- 1 I'm okay with: part two, worthy of belief? What
3 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Fair enough. 8 is -- I mean 
9 CHAIRMAN BARNES: And we're around this 9 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Well, here's --
10 circle table, so it's more of a conversation. I want 10 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: We need to define
11 it to be conversational, but I also don't want 11 that.
12 everybody to be interrupting each other. So I'm going 12 CHAIRMAN BARNES: a couple of things.
13 to then start calling on people. And I still want it 13 First, I think the standard of, if there's not someone
14 to be free?flowing, but Representative Austin, and 14 else saying it, we can't say it's credible, is not a
15 then -- 15 real-world standard. There's thousands of criminal
16 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: I'll yeah. 16 trials every single year where you would never be able
1? REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Okay. I have some 17 to get a conviction if that were the real-world
18 doubts about the veracity of some of the things she 18 standard.
19 said. And the reason I say it is, one is, she kind of 19 Number two, there are things about her
20 gave conflicting testimony. And she allowed herself, I 20 testimony that lend credibility to her. The first is
21 believe, to be kind of led down this one path, and then 21 regarding the first instance, up until the point where
22 she?d say something else when she was asked similar 22 she was taken down. Her testimony before our Committee
23 questions. 23 is entirely consistent with what she said in a car with
24 So I can't sit there and say to whoever reads 24 her husband when she her husband promised that 
25 this report that I found her credible, knowing that 25 that it would never get out of the car. It?s a tearful
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1 conversation, and that's what she says there. 1 And I think that that adds to her credibility. This is
2 After that point in time, we have friends of 2 not -- these are not the types of things that I imagine
3 hers that corroborate certain things that she said at 3 her making up, in any respect, and her demeanor when
4 certain points in time. Now, some -- one was within 4 she was telling this. Yes, there were times where
5 three to four days, another one was -- I think both of 5 she there were leading questions, but most of it 
6 them were within a week. And the details don't match 6 the start of it was free-flow. It was, what happened
I up 100 percent correct, but -- 7 next, what happened next, what happened next.
8 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Nor should they. 8 And if we go later in the document, where
9 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Nor should they. Exactly. 9 there's that conflict, we need to know where there is
10 If they matched up perfectly, we would be highly 10 that conflict, and it is noted in the document.
11 suspicious of them matching up perfectly. 11 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: May I -- I have some
12 In addition to that, the things that she said 12 proposed language from our superstar, Alix Hallen here,
13 that happened after the things that were already in 13 which is, Witness 1 provided credible testimony from
14 that call are so embarrassing that I don't see a person 14 which the Committee drew the following facts.
15 making facts that embarrassing up when there?s nothing 15 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: I don't want to say
16 in it for her. 16 facts, but I'll say evidence. But here's what -- why
17 And she testified to us that -- she testified 1? don?t we do Shawn's --
18 that she felt guilty herself. She felt shame and 18 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: From which the
19 embarrassment, and that she didn't like that person, I 19 Committee found finds the following.
20 think she said at some point in time, which is not -- 20 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: The Committee finds
21 she didn?t come in and play this victim of all victims 21 Witness 1 to be, overall, a credible witness.
22 part. 22 Credibility is defined as, and then we use Jeanie's
23 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Innocent, yes. 23 definition.
24 CHAIRMAN BARNES: She said she was -- she 24 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: And while you?re
25 said, you know, there are things that I really regret. 25 typing, I'll -- I'll make my case, as well.

 

 

 

 

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1 CHAIRMAN BARNES: I?m not going to delete 1 Rhoads has the floor.

2 what's up there; I'm going to put all the options up 2 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: I guess to say an

3 there. 3 overall credible witness, is that any different than

4 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: I -- I 4 saying credible witness?

5 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Because I well, the good 5 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Yes.

6 thing is, we have a reporter here who can read it back, 6 CHAIRMAN BARNES: I think that it is. I

but I want -- the Committee finds -- so hold your 1 think overall is a -- is a word of limitation on --

thought, let me write this down so we've got multiple 8 REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: Uh?huh.

9 options on the board. 9 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: I think it is, too.
10 The Committee finds Witness 1 to be an 10 I think it shows there?s little areas that --

11 overall credible witness -- and what did you say next? 11 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: All right.
12 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Credibility is 12 REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: Yeah. I like that.
13 defined as -- and then Jeanie's definition. 13 REPRESENTATIVE NITTEN: Can we delete the

14 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: I?ll find it. 14 definition?

15 REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: Do we really need l5 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Yeah.

16 to define that? I don?t think so. 16 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: We don?t need that.
1? CHAIRMAN BARNES: I think I'm fine with that 11 CHAIRMAN BARNES: I like -- I like having it
18 definition, because I think what Representative Austin 18 in. I'm open either way. I --
19 is saying is, there?s certain things in this 19 REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON: I say less is more.
20 testimony -- think the overall helps --
21 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: I need to take this. 21 REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: I actually like
22 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Let?s take a short break. 22 having it in, but I can go either way.
23 (A BREAK WAS TAKEN.) 23 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: I?m either way. I
24 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Back to -- after a short 24 think it just does give a level of standard as to what
25 phone call break, we are back, and Representative 25 we were all basing it on. It doesn't matter to me.

 

 

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CHAIRMAN BARNES: Representative Rhoads, does
it bother you one way or another? Do you have a strong
preference?

REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: I think -- I think we
could go with the majority on that. I don't -- I don't
see that -- I mean, I don?t think that having a
definition there really adds or takes away. I mean. I
think it's --

REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: I think most people
understand the word credible.

REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: They should know what
credible means.

CHAIRMAN BARNES: Okay. There it is. Okay.
So are we -- I can take the highlight off of this?

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Yes.

CHAIRMAN BARNES: Are we in agreement on
that? Okay.

Okay. Paragraph 2. I and this is going to
be a theme. We have -- every witness we -- I think
every witness, other than Witness 1 -- well, and

Witness 3 we asked whether they had a reputation for

"truthfulness and honesty. And the answer we got. no

matter who we were asking about it, was yes. So I am
in favor of taking it out all around.

So the other thing is, technically. that sort






 

 

Page 26
of question isn?t relevant until it's been questioned
in some respect.

I REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: I'm for taking it
out. but you?re not meaning take it out of the
transcript?

CHAIRMAN BARNES: No.

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Just out of our
report?

CHAIRMAN BARNES: Just out of the report. I
don't think it adds anything.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: I think that taking
it out of the transcript could he sort of a gross
violation of our duty, frankly.

CHAIRMAN BARNES: Yeah.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: But I'm fine with
taking it out.

REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: Yeah .

REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: And just to confirm,
the transcript will be part of the report 

CHAIRMAN BARNES: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: -- or an appendix to
the report?

CHAIRMAN BARNES: Okay. In addition to
grammatical changes. we are going to have to go through

and check that our citations stayed correct after the

 

 

 

 

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1 edits and -- because we have -- remember, we have
2 corrections to the transcript coming. and we're making
3 edits. to the document right now that -- did I spell
4 confidant right? I don't think that I did.
5 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Yes. Also. I just
6 want to -- I want to make. again, clear for the group
7 again and for the record. that any corrections to the
8 transcript are really just typographical errors.
9 Sometimes. you know. a word gets jumbled. especially --
10 well. I know some of my testimony was jumbled. because
11 I talk really fast, and I know there were times when
12 Chairman Barnes couldn?t be heard. So we are not
13 making anything remotely close to substantive changes;
14 I believe that those changes have been available for
15 review, or if they haven't been. they will be. But I
16 want to make it clear that --
17 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Well. let's just give an
18 example. VicenChairman John Phillips is what one of
19 them said. and so it's Don Phillips.
20 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: It's Don Phillips.
21 SECRETARY CURCHIN: I think confidant does
22 not have an on it.
23 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Does not have an Okay.
24 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Yes. 50 -- so the
25 changes that we will be getting in the transcripts are

 

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going to be the redactions, which we?re going to talk
about, I believe, later today. And then whatever
corrections, which I believe also for the most part are
going to be we're going to try to throw them up on
the screen.

CHAIRMAN BARNES: Okay. No one marked this
paragraph about Witness 3. I'm going to mark it now,
because I think we're going to need to come back to it
after our discussion about redactions. So if someone
could take down a note that we're going to have to come
back to Paragraph 3 --

COUNSELOR HALLEN: I've got it.

CHAIRMAN BARNES: at the very end. So
Paragraph 4 here. consistent with what we just had.
we're going to delete this.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Take away the E.

REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: off confidant.

CHAIRMAN BARNES: Okay. I?ll take away that.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: What?

CHAIRMAN BARNES: No. I?m just 

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Oh, it's highlighted.
Okay.

REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: It doesn't leave much
of a sentence.

CHAIRMAN BARNES: I think that?s a -- I think

 

 

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that's a since how long she's known the witness. I
think that's --

REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Uh-huh.

CHAIRMAN BARNES: Okay. So Paragraph 5. what
we want to do is track the language from above: is that
correct? Okay. So let's go get our language from
above.

REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: You might want to just
highlight what we've done in a different color so we
can easily go back and reference some of these things.

REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON: Well, I think
we're I think we're --

CHAIRMAN BARNES: This sentence right here,
is that what we want to take?

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: We still are going to

reference the criminal case? I just want to -- I can't
remember where -- so we're keeping both of those
sentences?

CHAIRMAN BARNES: Yes, that's my intent.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Yes, that's fine.

CHAIRMAN BARNES: Is everyone in agreement
with that change?

GROUP RESPONSE: Yes.

CHAIRMAN BARNES: Okay. This is further

detail that I think is very important to put to put

 

 

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of this?

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Sure.

CHAIRMAN BARNES: Yes or no?

GROUP RESPONSE: Yes.

CHAIRMAN BARNES: I would almost take this
out except for that it puts context to the second
part of the sentence.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Right. I agree.

REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Leave that in.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: I agree. And again,
it?s only a couple of sentences, but it?s in the
transcript, and clarity --

CHAIRMAN BARNES: Yes. ma'am, I agree in
unanimity on that point. Okay.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: I don't think we
need -- going back to -- what was that, seven? We
don't need the, fall to March, Greitens didn't make any
appointments. Just on or about March 1th, Greiten
returned for, you know, came -- made an appointment or
some for a haircut.

CHAIRMAN BARNES: No. I think it matters,
because if you look at the transcript, that gap in time
is something that she testified to.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Okay.

CHAIRMAN BARNES: All right. You're -- I

 

 

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Page 30
in here in -- in Paragraph 6, which is the relationship
prior to the incident of March 21, 2015. And I. again,
I foIlow the same pattern of just quoting from the
transcript.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Can we trim some of
this of this though? I mean, it?s in the transcript
and I -- it just seems to me that an ellipsis, again.
starting from, seemed pretty typical until we got to
know each other pretty well: it's, like no, no.

Not you?re going that?s not what I'm talking
about. I'm talking about, like, the third line.

CHAIRMAN BARNES: Well, hold on. I'm cutting
down up front because --

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

CHAIRMAN BARNES: I mean, let's just go line
by line. He became a regular --

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Yeah.

CHAIRMAN BARNES: client of mine.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: I saw him pretty
regularly as he was traveling. Seemed pretty typical,
ellipsis. We got to know each other pretty well, and I
thought he was great. You know what I'm saying: this
stuff is in the transcript verbatim. We don't
necessarily -- again. less is more.

CHAIRMAN BARNES: Do we want to ellipsis all

 

 

 

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could be amenable to that.

Representative Rhoads? Representative
Austih?

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Yeah.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Just the first
sentence. You could even just say on or about
March 7th. Greiten returned after a six you know,

a 

REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: What was the start
date?

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: It's, like, 2013,
wasn't it?

REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Is there a date up
above that says 

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Then again, it was,
unless he was traveling. I saw him regularly unless he
was traveling.

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Let's just leave it
in.

CHAIRMAN BARNES: Leave it in.

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: You may think it?s a
bit verbose, but come on.

CHAIRMAN BARNES: Okay. Now I see footnote
three here and -- where is footnote three? This is for

the declining to testify, and so I think that

 

 

 

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1 correspondence with counsel, that should be included in 1 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: That's a lawyer
2 the record. And we're going to have to get exhibit 2 thing.
3 numbers for that stuff. And what I would propose is, 3 . REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: And that was a subset
4 we just append it onto the end of the whatever 4 of 15, so we used --
5 exhibit number we're on now, we just do we just do 5 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Wellone exhibit that contains all of that traffic. 6 the A was created by the parties to that agreement, not
I REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: May I make a by us.
8 suggestion, which is that we just exhibits that were 8 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Okay.
9 used in the course of witness testimony would have 9 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Okay. So here's another
10 numbers; exhibits that we came to us outside of 10 deal, Witness 1 testified straight out of the
11 witness testimony would have letters? Maybe that?s 11 transcript. I?m fine with it.
12 more confusing though: that's kind of a lawyer thing. 5 12 GROUP RESPONSE: Pine.
13 CHAIRMAN BARNES: I think it?s 13 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Okay. Everybody's waiting
14 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: You may be right 14 on somebody else to say something.
15 about that. 15 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: No, I mean, it is
16 CHAIRMAN BARNES: I think it's more . 16 what it is.
17 confusing. 17 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: That?s the facts.
l8 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: You may be right I 18 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Well, but, Representative,
19 about that. 19 I want to make sure everybody has a chance to actually
20 CHAIRMAN BARNES: We?ll just put our exhibits 20 read it that I've added to the document.
21 in number order -- 21 Okay. Next.
22 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: In number order, i 22 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: This -- on
23 and -- yeah. 3 23 Paragraph 8, it needs to be in with witness testified
24 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Because we had 24 that during the March appointment, Greitens moved
25 a 15A. 25 his hand.
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REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: 2015? 1 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: solely related to
2 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Yeah, 2015. 2 the 
3 CHAIRMAN BARNES: I -- guys, I don?t want 3 CHAIRMAN BARNES: No.
4 to -- once we start in a year, until we?re in a new 4 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: charges to
5 year, we don't need to put the year in every single 5 witnesses 1 through 4?
6 paragraph. 6 CHAIRMAN BARNES: We're going to be less
7 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Agreed. 7 than 30 pages.
8 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Nobody's going to be 8 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Okay.
9 confused that this was different. 9 CHAIRMAN BARNES: There?s nothing wrong with
10 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: I think folks that 10 detail.
11 haven?t been living with it like we have -- I 11 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Could we go down a
12 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Yeah, but it flows together 12 little bit?
13 as a document. Okay. New -- new phrase, and I'll just i 13 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Yes.
14 shut up, because I'm I added this here and you guys 5 14 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Yep.
15 were waiting for me to say something. 15 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Okay. And then I deleted
16 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: What? 16 what I had there previously, so I had that --
17 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: I?m good with 17 REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON: What is this -- what
18 Paragraph 9. 18 does that word go with, the t-w?o-n?
19 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Paragraph 10 is the code i 19 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: 0h, is there a bad
20 conversation. 20 hyphen?
21 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: I'm good with 21 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: I think it?s between,
22 Paragraph 10. 22 isn?t it? what is that?
23 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Oh, right, okay. 23 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Let's go up again.
24 Good grief. Is this now 42 pages of -- 24 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTINCHAIRMAN BARNES: No. 25 little bit?
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1 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Oh. yeah. 1 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: SO 
2 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Out of town. Thank 2 CHAIRMAN BARNES: I think that change is
3 you 3 relating to let the -- let the testimony speak for
4 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Out of twon. Okay. All 4 itself.
5 right. I'm going to un?highlight this. 5 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Delete again; delete
6 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Wait a minute. is 6 again. You?ve got two semicolons. Yes.
7 there I don?t have hyphen you comma; is that 7 CHAIRMAN BARNES: This is an additional
8 accurate? It should be you know. that last sentence in 8 citation to where?s 41 -- to something -- to this
9 the quote. I don?t know well, I can go and look at 9 type of testimony. about being taken down. and so I
10 the actual transcript. 10 just want to cite everywhere in the record there's
11 CHAIRMAN BARNES: How about we do this. 11 discussion of it.
12 because it's not pertinent either way? How about we 12 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Oh. right. Uh-huh.
13 just do that? 13 CHAIRMAN BARNES: And if people are reviewing
l4 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: No. no. just take 14 this and you see anything that we missed we missed
15 away the don?t have. because I have to get back to my 15 something else that's in the record that relates to
16 house in a minute. Yeah. 16 something we?ve already cited, point it out. I mean. I
17 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Yeah. Okay. Where are we 1? did my best to find every place every place in the
18 next? 18 record. I added this. because it?s better with the
19 REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON: We?re making 19 context of the specific question that was asked.
20 progress now. 20 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Nell. wait a minute.
21 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Look at this. 21 I know that she was specifically asked about being
22 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Okay. This was -- I agree 22 coerced.
23 with this and leave it to what was in there. I was 23 CHAIRMAN BARNES: I believe that is in there
24 trying to do a summary. And what -- I need to take the 24 somewhere: yes. So that's earlier. It's a hard
25 strike off. 25 question 
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REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: The second line. 1 testified that he slapped her and they had this
2 CHAIRMAN BARNES: -- because I did. it felt 2 conversation. And I think that what happens after that
3 like consent. but. no. I didn't want to do it. She 3 is important to put in the report itself.
4 further explained coerced maybe. I felt as though -- 4 Discussion. if any?
5 do you want to say when directly asked? 5 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: No.
6 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: No. I?m okay. 6 CHAIRMAN BARNES: So what CHAIRMAN BARNES: Okay. And this is what 1 we have the -- the current before I added that
8 happens back at the house, her testimony about back at 8 change. I'm not sure why that's highlighted. because
9 the house. 9 it?s the same in this copy that I have in front of me.
10 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: The man that I knew 10 So that may have been an accidental highlight. I
11 before -- last sentence. 11 apologize for that. This -- I had this highlighted.
12 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Yes. ma?am. Okay. Let me i 12 This was highlighted. and I've looked -- it's the same
13 save this before I 13 as it was before.
14 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: It's control S. 14 This is what was new. it's 56. Discussion?
15 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Yes. yes. yes. yes. yes. 5 15 Is everyone fine with adding --
16 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: I mean. this is just 16 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: You're adding that?
17 really recitations of the testimony. 11 CHAIRMAN BARNES: We are adding this. Any
18 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Well. but it does so in a i 18 objections? Seeing none. Okay. This is the details
19 fashion that merges -- i 19 on the --
20 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Right.Ir I get that. 20 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: Mr. Chairman, can we
21 CHAIRMAN BARNES: -- the testimony together 5 21 go back?
22 in a fashion that is readable. 22 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Yeah.
23 I do not know why this is highlighted. Does 23 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: 63. 64 -- wait a
24 anyone know why this is highlighted? I know why it's 24 minute. Never mind. I apologize. Go ahead. You 
25 highlighted. because this is what happens after she 25 you added numbers.
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CHAIRMAN BARNES: Yeah, I've added numbers,

so your --
I REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: Okay.
CHAIRMAN BARNES: -- 63 and 64 are different.
Okay. So 65 is -- this is the we want to add this
constitutional language again?
REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Uh-huh.

CHAIRMAN BARNESfootnote this time? The Committee notes once again 
REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: That?s fine.
Okay.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN:

CHAIRMAN BARNES: So let me 
It?s an automatic
numbering: it's not going to like that.

CHAIRMAN BARNES: Yeah, we?ve got to fix
that.

REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: Is there a legal
reason we keep saying this point in time after
everything?

There is no

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: I agree.

reason to do that. It just says, at this time, is all
that's needed. The report is dated.
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: See, because right
there, it says, or answer interrogations under oath.

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just saying he just declined to testify, period?

CHAIRMAN BARNES: Amen.
REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: I'm fine with that.
too.
REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Yeah.
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: I mean, really,
that's the bottom line.
REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: I would be fine with
that.

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Okay.
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: That covers it all;
that covers all of it.
REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: There. There you go;
I think that's perfect.

CHAIRMAN BARNES: And also you need to split
up the documents and the interrogatories from the
testimony, because that's a separate -- those are
separate issues.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: That?s why. Okay.
Thank you.
REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Okay. But he has
offered to testify, you know, later on after the 
REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: That's in there.
CHAIRMAN BARNES: But but that's in here,

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I like all that is extra if it doesn't need to be in

2 there.

3 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: You know what, that

4 could actually be changed to say, Greitens declined to
5 testify, comma, provide documents, or answer

6 interrogatories under oath at this point in time

stating, through counsel, that he --

8 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: At this time.

9 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Oh, sorry. Did I say
10 that?

11 REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: You did.

12 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: At this time. Look
13 at that, I'm guilty of my own crime.

14 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Okay. At this time
15 is now, but at the point we asked 

16 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Well, at this time is
17 the date of the report.

13 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: But that's not when
19 he declined. He declined when we asked him earlier.
20 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Well, then you would
21 say as of March 20 --
22 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: At that time.
23 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Right. Exactly. So
24 that?s why if you say, at this time, you know.

25 REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: What's wrong with

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of the criminal case.
REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Oh, okay. Sorry.
REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Yeah.

REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: Uh-huh.

CHAIRMAN BARNES: I can get rid of some

commasthat. Okay. These are --
let's see, I think -- so I'm going to do a slow fly by
here, and everybody -- here, you can look at the copy.
We?ve got one, two -- I think there are four
paragraphs, and I think they -- they kind of flow --
REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: These are news
reports.

CHAIRMAN BARNES: Well, they're more than
news reports, they are recordings. They are audio
recordings or video recordings of his statements, so
they?re not this is not at all, hey, we?ve got a
transcription from a reporter, and who knows if the
transcription is correct. It is -- and we?ve I've
cited them. And what I -- actually, what I want, you
know, I would hope is that we've got this document. I
can set forth the -- the links of where these are for
people to review and make sure that I've got got it
right, what was said.

So -- but our

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Right.

resolution says we are to administer an oath -- none of

 

 

 

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these folks have been administered an oath. Now, we
are accepting some documents that weren't -- a
foundation was laid, I understand, but most of them we
have had foundations. And I mean. this is in the
public sphere, I mean, as far as news reports.

CHAIRMAN BARNES: I think a couple of things.
As to reliability. so laying the foundation -- for the
video, I think we can lay the foundation ourselves
based on we can see that it is, in tact, him. There
were lots of news reports where we can call the
reporter in to testify that they were there someone
in the room, that they were there, and, yes, that's
what they heard him same.

For the tape recording, it's clearly his
voice the tape recording of the Associated Press.
It's clearly his voice. It appears to be an interview
that was set up by the Governor's office for the --
the -- so let's take these one at a time. Sorry.

The Associated Press interview, the entire
interview is posted here at this 5oundCloud.com. It is
clearly his voice. It appears that it was an interview
set up by the Governor's office. He was asked
questions that this Committee would have asked.

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Oh, but, now that?s a

little problematic, because now, obviously, you're

 

 

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audio portion? Now, maybe we can have a little give
there, but it's still not under oath, but let me ask
you this --
CHAIRMAN BARNES: I -- I think we should -- I
think that that should be noted, but also I, you know,
I think that's obvious, but fine with noting it.

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Well, I don't know if
we have to note back
up just a little bit and just ask a couple of
questions. Since this is an investigative Committee,
there aren't parties. so admission of a party
opponent, I think is improper law.

What is it when you have a statement against
interest of a witness; what's the law there? Do you
guys I don't remember that.

CHAIRMAN BARNES: Statement against interest
if it 

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: It's hearsay.
CHAIRMAN BARNES: It?s an exception to
hearsay.

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Unless -- but does it
have to be contrary to their interest? I mean, it's
not just anything. Like, I always think of as a
admission of a party opponent, you can throw anything

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1 saying, well, we're taking the Governor's testimony as
2 if he were here. But he?s not here and he's not under
3 oath as we are required under the Resolution to put our
4 witnesses under.

5 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: And quick question to

6 add to that. that would be like taking Witness 3's

statement from the news media and entering it as well.

8 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Well, a couple of things.

9 Number one, if it?s, in fact, a statement of Witness 3
10 that is an audio recording, it would be admissible as a
11 statement of a party or -- he would be -- he's not
12 necessarily a party; he?s a witness. It -- this type
13 of stuff is admissible in trials as statements of a
14 party. Yes, he?s not under oath. but it is, in fact,
15 his statement.

16 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: But, yes. The other
1? thing is, and I apologize, are we 100 percent sure that
18 what you?re quoting up here was not edited in any way?
19 CHAIRMAN BARNES: I would encourage you to
20 read the -- to listen to the interviews.

21 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: I just don't think
22 that it has any place in our report.

23 CHAIRMAN BARNES: They're his words.

24 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: Doesn't matter.

25 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Maybe -- I mean, the

 

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1 witness -- just a witness, it has to be something

2 contrary to their interest.

3 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Well, I think, obviously,

4 he's a -- he is a party in some sense. There's two --
5 I think there's two parties here: Witness 1 and the

5 Governor. So also the rule I mean, those are the

7 conflicting sides. I mean, this is audio: this is a

8 recording from the Associated Press that's been online
9 and reported, and the Governor?s office didn't say he
10 was misquoted or that there was anything wrong with the
11 recording.

12 The other one is a -- is a video from a press
13 conference that you can see the words coming out of his
14 mouth. It's a 40-minute press conference. They?re

15 words that came out of his mouth; we didn't put them in
16 there. There's no editing of the transcript that is

1? obvious at all, and I would -- I want to encourage that
18 we get people to actually go look at this and check how
19 I've done this. But he said it; they're his words.
20 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Yeah. I'm trying to,
21 you know, also defend my position about statement

22 against interest and the rules of hearsay on all this,
23 but there's just something that just strikes me in my
24 gut that's wrong that we're putting in AP reports, even
25 my beloved KY3 reports in here.

 

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1 CHAIRMAN BARNES: But it's not an AP report. 1 And without that, we -- without this, we have no
2 We are putting in what he said on a -- sort of like 2 reference to him and his position. That would be
3 Witness 1 was tape recorded in a car and that is 3 absent. So given that this exists, it seems to me we
4 relevant. And -- 4 should include it, because it does complete the
5 COUNSELOR HALLEN: And it?s part of our 5 framework of the entire picture and it includes
6 transcript. 6 information that we have regarding him -- or of him.
1 CHAIRMAN BARNES: And it's part of our 7 CHAIRMAN BARNES: I've got it up here: we'll
8 transoript. 8 play it for the Committee. I mean, this is 
9 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: After a foundation 9 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: I don't think playing
10 was laid. 10 the -- the tape doesn't do anything. I mean, that's
11 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: With people under 11 not -- the whole thing is, is that we?re quoting --
12 oath. 12 we're quoting newspaper and media stuff that --
13 CHAIRMAN BARNES: She wasn?t under oath in 13 CHAIRMAN BARNES: This isn't 
14 that car. 14 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: If we're going to do
15 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: No, but she -- 15 that, we?re going to we're going to quote
16 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: Well, she -- she 16 Witness 3?s interview on whatever TV station it was on.
1? testified under oath that that was her in in the -- 17 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Okay. It's his statement.
13 in the audio recording. 18 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: I mean --
19 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Yes, she did. Are you -- 19 CHAIRMAN BARNES: They're words that came out
20 Representative Lauer? 20 of his mouth. It?s not that it was in a news report,
21 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Oh, sorry. 21 it?s that there were words -- this is -- these --
22 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Well, you had your hand up. 22 PLAYED.)
23 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Yeah. Okay. We 23 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Let?s listen to this
24 cannot not have -- we do not have a direct statement 24 without a transcript of the audio, because that -- I
25 from him, because he did not come forward to testify. 25 mean --

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 PLAYED.) 1 an opportunity to, you know, confirm. But I think with
2 CHAIRMAN BARNES: So that is his voice. That 2 reasonable -- I mean, I believe that that was his
3 is his statement about facts that are fundamental here. 3 voice. I believe that these were his statements; some
4 It is admissible in any type of proceeding, because it 4 type of a qualifying statement.
5 is a statement of any type of proceeding relating to 5 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Can 
6 this, because it?s a statement of a party. It's going 6 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Yes, ma'am.
1 to be admissible in the criminal proceeding. 7 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: It seems to me, and I
REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Because he's a party. 8 don?t -- I guess we?d have to go back to the paragraph
9 He's not a party here. This is an investigative 9 that started all of this. But it seems to me that the
10 committee. Hey, how do you want to resolve this, 10 Governor has made a decision not to testify. We can
11 Mr. Chair? 11 all debate the reasons for that and we can write that
12 CHAIRMAN BARNES: They're -- they're his 12 up in our report. But the bottom line is that this
13 words. Representative Pierson? I?m sorry. 13 Committee is making in its findings that the Governor
14 REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON: It sounds like the 14 has declined to come and appear. The Governor has
15 difference between what we allowed as admissible that 15 declined to produce documents. The Governor has
16 happened in the car with Witness 1, and this is that 16 declined to answer written interrogatories, and the --
1? Witness 1 had an opportunity and Witness 3 had an 1? and we can still say this is out in the public.
18 opportunity to, under oath, confirm that thatbasically, this is a
19 said what we are allowing as evidence. 19 way for this Committee to say, we recognize that the
opportunity to do that 20 Governor has not authenticated this information. And
21 with these statementsmake that 21 maybe that's the qualifying statement that
22 statement that, you know, we were not able to some 22 Representative Pierson would like to see.
23 kind of qualifying statement? I think having this kind 23 But I agree, I think that -- I think that it
24 of I would be in favor of keeping this in there with 24 should be in here. This is -- this is pertinent to our
25 some kind of qualifying statement of, we did not have 2 25 investigation, and just because it's not under oath,

 

 

 

 

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1 the public -- let the -- let the public look at these 1 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Jeanie, what do you
2 words and decide for themselves. 2 think?
3 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Sorry. I just wanted to 3 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: My thought is that
4 pull it up. So this one?s not just audio, this is a 4 absent him testifying, this is, indeed, evidence that
5 video of -- of him. I mean, there?s no case to be made 5 has been put forth, including the verification that it
6 that these are not authentic. 6 is, indeed, him in person and in audio. And that,
1 And then the third one is -- let me pull the 7 again, absent of him testifying. we are including this
8 third one up. The fourth one, I think there?s 8 as part of the report.
9 there's a case. We can -- we can talk about that in a 9 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: I think that if we
18 moment. The -- so the third one, again, is -- 18 want to include this in the report, this stuff?s
11 (VIDEO PLAYED.) 11 already out there, why would it need to be in our
12 CHAIRMAN BARNES: This is clearly Governor 12 report if it's already out in the public?
13 Greitens. So -- and then the third one is an interview 13 CHAIRMAN BARNES: It's relevant to the 
14 on KMOV, which is a spliced interview. They don't 14 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Yeah, the story.
15 provide -- otherwise, we have -- one, two, and three we 15 REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON: Yeah. These are
16 have all the way through. We have, like, a 30-minute 16 directly 
17 uninterrupted for the press conference. We have 20 17 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: I just I don't --
18 minutes uninterrupted for the Associated Press 18 I don't see that that's something that we did in our
19 interview, and then we have three minutes uninterrupted 19 Committee. We?ve never even discussed this in
20 for Missouri Press Aesociation. 20 Committee. In any of our investigations, this portion
21 Here we have an interview that is clearly 21 was never discussed in front of the Committee at all.
22 spliced together, and so to the extent there's 22 CHAIRMAN BARNES: That is true. That is
23 authentication problems or anything. this -- this is 23 true.
24 the one that more relies on a news report, is this 24 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: And that's the sole
25 fourth one. 25 reason why it needs to be gone.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Well, we can notice it up 1 that?s what anybody's saying. That's certainly not
2 for Menday and watch the videos in full. 2 what I?m saying. My attitude is, because the Governor
3 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: That's what I'm 3 declined -- and -- and I?m not trying to weigh in on
4 saying is. the report's preliminarily made and we're 4 those -- on the basis or the reasons for that decline
5 going to have to have a hearing so we can watch TV 5 or why he declined. But because the Governor has
6 programs and news stories. 6 declined, it does seem to some degree that we would be
7 CHAIRMAN BARNES: We can we can watch them 7 remiss if we did not point out that the Governor has
8 today. I mean, this is what I would encourage every 8 made public statements that, you know, as we're seeing
9 member of the Committee to double verify -- and I've 9 here, as -- as the Chair is outlining in his draft.
10 got the citations down here -- to double verify the 10 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Do you believe that that
11 exact words and to watch these videos. We've -- we've 11 was, in fact, Governor Greitens?
12 got the links. It's not like I'm pulling this out 12 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: I mean, sure, it
13 of 13 looks like him, but I'm not talking about that. I'm
14 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: I also think that if 14 talking more about the audiotapes, the cut news
15 we're going to do that, then we need to subpoena who 15 stories, that kind of stuff. I mean, that's not work
16 was taking the audio recording so they can authenticate 16 the Committee did. None of it is.
1? it. 1? CHAIRMAN BARNES: That's true, there -- it 
18 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: This is not a trial. 18 it's also relevant to our inquiry. And if we want
19 This is an investigative report. 19 to notice it up on Monday and watch the videos watch
20 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: I agree. But if 20 the videos with the court reporter.
21 we?re going to -- if we're going to go through the 21 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: We can notice up --
22 steps that we've went through to get to the point where 22 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: If I were called in 
23 we're at, we can?t just go, well, it?s okay for this 23 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: Well, let's notice it
24 one. 24 up tomorrow. Let?s do it. I'm here: let's go.
25 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: I don't think that 25 COUNSELOR HALLEN: We already are.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 CHAIRMAN BARNES: We can do Monday. 1 us. but he was more than willing to talk to the press.
2 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: Nell. we'll do 2 It's documented there. I don?t think it -- I don't
3 tomorrow morning. 3 think it's a problem.
4 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: If I were called in to 4 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Not that this is how
5 this Committee and asked to testify on the phone call I 5 you have to handle it because you're Chair. but if we
6 got from Greitens. it would -- I would say. during that 6 took a vote. I think it would be five to two about
1 conversation. he said he admitted to the affair. that 7 coming in. Having said that. both Tommie and Jeanie
3 he -- he said he did not blackmail. he said that there 8 have some qualifying language or intro language. Now.
9 was no violence. That's what he told me on the phone. 9 here?s -- put that in there.
10 So we have numerous people in the body who have been 10 Now. here's maybe the hard part. Do we want
ll contacted with those statements. 11 to footnote Shawn and my's objection? Just say. we
12 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Let me throw this -- 12 object to this intro. but we'll side with the --
13 oh. go ahead. 13 CHAIRMAN BARNES: I?d be yes. I'm open to
14 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: That?s all right. I'm 14 that. I also think --
15 fine. 15 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: But that gets us down
16 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Well. I think. can we -- 16 a path where. do we want to go?
1? Representative Phillips hasn't and maybe you don't REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Yep.
18 want to say anything. because I think we -- 18 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: I think we?re going
19 CHAIRMAN BARNES: I think everybody's talked 19 to hit that path on another issue. too. aren't we?
20 except for Representative Phillips. and then you've got 20 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Not -- maybe on -- on the
21 a suggestion for another idea. 21 redaction issue?
22 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Yeah. I do. 22 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: Well. I possibly.
23 REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: I don't see 23 yeah. I mean --
24 anything wrong with referencing it: I don't. I think 24 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Yeah. you're talking about
25 it ties into the fact that he wasn?t willing to talk to 25 the redaction issue. I?m fine I am absolutely fine

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 with that. because I don't think -- you don't 1 I said just a minute ago. did you?

2 dispute -- I think if you listen to the audio and you 2 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: I'm hoping you all

3 watch the video. there?s no person that can dispute 3 remember what I said later.

4 that that is. in fact. Governor Greitens. 4 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: I don?t think any

5 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: My complaint is not 5 media reports should be in our report.

6 that I'm worried about the CIA or KGB coming in here 6 CHAIRMAN BARNES: So it?s this Paragraph 70.

and putting words. you know. on the -- on these tapes. I which is the St. Louis television station? Are we okay

8 you know. Also they?re all in one piece. they're not 8 with taking that out. because that was not the full

9 spliced like that KNOX one or KMOV. whatever it is. 9 interview?

10 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Do you want to take KMOV 10 REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: Yep. 
11 out because -- 11 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Correct. 
12 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: I do. but -- 12 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: The one that was him 3
13 CHAIRMAN BARNES: -- of the splicing? I?m 13 standing there speaking. was that a press conference? i
14 fine with that. 14 CHAIRMAN BARNES: That was a press conference

15 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: The ones that are in 15 on the State budget.

16 their entirety. but I Still just -- I just didn't want 16 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Okay. So that would

17 any media reports in here. 17 have been controlled by him. that is him. that's him

18 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Well. let's put -- 18 saying it.

19 MR. RHOADS: I echo the same comments as 19 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Well. I would add. the

20 Representative Austin. 20 Associated Press interview was in his office. and if
21 CHAIRMAN BARNES: I I'm in favor of taking 21 you listen to it. there's a press person there
22 KNOV out. because it is spliced together. 22 directing the interview saying. okay. we've got to wrap
23 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Look at that 23 up here; clearly set up by his office in preparation

24 compromise. 24 for being asked these questions. Which we might not
25 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: You didn't hear what 25 have asked that question exactly. but we would have

 

 

 

 

 

 

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certainly asked that question in some way. 1 it and come back.
2 So Representative Austin. can we -- let?s -- 2 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Okay. I'll leave it
3 why don?t we put this in the parking lot to think about 3 highIighted. And we agreed to delete the KMOV, which
4 how you want to word that footnote and come back to it. 4 was edited -- an edited report.
5 or do you want to do it now? 5 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: And I don?t remember
6 REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: Or do you want to 6 the qualifying language that Tommie and Jeanie had:
7 do it? 7 though I hope they do.
8 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Or do you want to do it? 8 CHAIRMAN BARNES: We'll figure it out.
9 REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: If you?re going to 9 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: It was absent his
10 object anyway, it doesn?t matter. does it? 10 testimony.
ll REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: I would like to go on 11 CHAIRMAN BARNES: We'll come back to it.
12 record that -- just that I do -- it seems to me that if 12 Okay. Paragraph T0. Representative Austin, I 
13 we?re going to have a report that includes footnotes of 13 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: 0h. is this --
14 who disagrees with what. we could end up with a lot of 14 CHAIRMAN BARNES: This is her fear, and I
15 footnotes. 15 think she's expressing fear to both Governor
16 CHAIRMAN BARNES: No. but I don't know that 16 Greitens and to her ex?husband.
1? there -- I don't know that he?s -- that they're 17 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: First place, I had a
18 disagreeing as to the fact that it was said and that it 19 question as to who she's talking about fear of. because
19 was Governor Greitens. They're disagreeing as to its 19 if you look at Page 30. Lines 13 through 16. to me it?s
20 inclusion in the report. 20 clearly saying the ex-husband. Jay and I both kind of
21 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Right. And I 21 read it. maybe she's meaning both.
22 would -- 22 But let me just ask this overall. what's the
23 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Possibly the record 23 relevancy of -- of her feelings. at this point. of
24 we're making right now is sufficient to record our 24 fear. I mean. with -- certainly without -- I mean, the
25 objections; I don?t know. Let's -- let?s think about 25 only supportive evidence we might have is she testified

 

 

 

 

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Page 63 Page 64
1 that that the ex may have surveyed her either by 1 transcript in order to basically write a more concise
2 having friends or professionally. and that Eric 2 story of what this Committee has heard. yeah. it's
3 Greitens walked by her salon afterwards. So I I 3 relevant.
4 mean. but I don't see how it's relevant, her fear. 4 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: I would go a step
5 CHAIRMAN BARNES: I think it's -- her fear is 5 further and say. the relevance has to do with that very
6 relevant to credibility. and because there?s the 6 last line.
7 suggestion. at least in the public space. about the 7 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Yeah.
8 fact that she did not come forward of her own accord REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: I was not as concerned
9 for a long period of time. that somehow that cuts 9 about the picture. but worried about my physical well
10 against her credibility. And the fact that she had 10 being. That is significant in this situation to her
11 fear both of Governor Greitens and of her ex?husband is 11 whole make?up and everything that's going on.
12 relevant to suggest why she would not come forward. 12 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: Let's back up.
13 And it goes to what I think is not atypical 13 CHAIRMAN BARNES: I -- I also think it's
14 behavior of someone who's been a victim of sexual 14 important to -- we get this next line: she?s also
15 assault or violence in this sort of fashion to have 15 fearful of her ex-husband.
16 that kind of fear and to testify to that kind of fear. 16 Representative Rhoads?
17 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Is that evidence 1? REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: Please remind me the
18 weighty enough to deserve a paragraph in a report? 18 time where she's referencing that she was --
19 It's certainly in there as an exhibit. l9 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: During this period?
20 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: My gosh. we're on 20 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: worried for her
21 Page 22 and we've had 15 pages of what they could 21 physical well being. Was that during the first sexual
22 arguably consider to be not relevant to the extent that 22 encounter?
23 we're reciting transcripts. So it seems to me. 23 CHAIRMAN BARNES: No. this is -- this is
24 honestly. I -- it?s. like, I don?t see the problem. If 24 later. This is 1-11. so 79 I've got her testimony
25 the point of this is to pull out portions of the 25 here in front of me.

 

 

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Page 65 Page 66
REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: I guess we could 1 about that a bit, about your physical; what caused you
2 reference it to which visit that she made to his house 2 to feel that way?
3 that she was fearful for her life. 3 And then she says, I felt as though this
4 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Well, but that's not -- 4 obviously meant a lot to him to be running for
5 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Well, we don't know 5 governor. I knew I had told my husband, more -- more
6 that. 6 importantly than anybody, and that if the word got back
7 CHAIRMAN BARNESjust 7 to him -- and I think that him refers then to Governor
3 read from the transcript for you. So this is 8 Greitens -- he would do something to hurt me to make
9 Representative Lauer, she says, starting on Page T9, 9 sure that I couldn't tell anybody else, or that, you
10 Line 20: Okay. We've talked about blackmail and, of 10 know, this -- I would know that I wasn't supposed to be
11 course, they were talking about more of the financial 11 doing -- supposed to be doing, you know, telling
12 thing. I'm going to ask a bit more about the emotional 12 anybody this.
13 side, because there were times when you said that Eric 13 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: Okay. Well, thank
14 would ask if you had told, and said good girl and so 14 you. I was trying to clarify where that was.
15 forth. Did you feel that there was a threat coming 15 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: It gets confusing.
16 from him, and that if you did say something, that 16 CHAIRMAN BARNES: And so this is after I
17 something would happen? 1? think because of where it is in the report, it is clear
18 And her answer is, oh, definitely. Oh 18 that it's not relating back to the first incident.
19 definitely. I during this time period, I was also 19 Maybe I should why don't we just put, testified to
20 fearful of the picture, but also of what I didn?t know: 20 her fear after --
21 what else would he do, because this obviously meant a 21 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: After her four sexual
22 lot to him. It wasn't until later that I became not as 22 encounters with -- or their four visits.
23 worried about the picture. more worried about my 23 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: After encounters with
24 physical well being. 24 Greitens.
25 And then Representative Lauer asks, talk 25 CHAIRMAN BARNES: After encOUnters with

 

 

 

 

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Page 67 Page 68
1 Greitens. 1 to 11?
2 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: Well, they were all 2 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Wasn't it pretty much
3 sexual encounters. 3 like the same things?
4 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Well, not necessarily: she 4 CHAIRMAN BARNES: It it?s related, and I
5 had some that weren't. 5 think that more than one member might not want this to
6 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: The one where she 6 come out. I don't know, and this is just a particular
I went and got her keys back. 7 example of that fear manifesting itself.
8 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Well, the one in the 8 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Could we, maybe on
9 alley. 9 this one, because it's very long and it -- to just say
10 CHAIRMAN BARNES: K-Mart. 10 that she has testified to a particular instance of
11 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: The one at K?Mart, 11 her --
12 yeah. 12 CHAIRMAN BARNES: And footnote where it is in
13 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Alley. Phone call. 13 the record?
14 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: Okay. l4 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Exactly. It just
15 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Haircuts. 15 seems that that's a lot of ink.
16 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: So since this was all 16 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Absolutely. Absolutely,
11 after these feelings of fear that arose, this goes to 17 Representative. You are getting your brevity wish
18 her credibility -- 18 here.
19 CHAIRMAN BARNES: I think -- 19 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Thank you.
20 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: -- in your guys' -- 20 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Okay. What else?
21 in your belief? 21 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: The last ones, I
22 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Yes. 22 think, are still my complaints about, you know, is
23 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Uh-huh. 23 this -- what's the purpose here talking about this?
24 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Absolutely. 24 And -- I mean, it certainly evokes sympathy, I got it,
25 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Are we can I move on 25 but that -- I mean --

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Nell. but it's more than I REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Yeah. Wait a minute.
2 sympathy. It also goes to credibility that -- 2 Go back up. Sorry.
3 I REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Yes. 3 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Let me put that paragraph
4 CHAIRMAN BARNES: -- she doesn't want to be 4 back up there. What --
5 here. I mean. imagine her sitting in her bedroom and 5 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Just do control B.
6 having to tell the children to leave the room because 6 CHAIRMAN BARNES: I don?t -- I'm not hip with
1 this report is about to air that is so embarrassing to 1 all your computer expertise here. okay?
8 her. that no woman would ever want this on television 8 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: You could have just
9 about them with their children in the room. 9 ended after not hip.
10 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Could we continue to 10 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Okay.
11 curser down, just because I'm trying to see what 9 11 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Nell, wait, maybe
12 else 12 it?s --
13 CHAIRMAN BARNES: And this -- 13 CHAIRMAN BARNES: You know what we could do.
14 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Something about her 14 Witness 1 testified she learned the story was going to
15 daughter? 15 air minutes before it went live, and then explain --
16 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: I would take out that 16 commar explain the circumstances of the airing of the
17 second paragraph. 1? report. and then explain how she was had to tell her
18 CHAIRMAN BARNES: This one? 18 family members about it.
19 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Yeah, that it -- 19 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: I'm fine. Yeah.
20 whose daughter it was. I don't know that that 20 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Yeah. that's good.
21 really -- personally. and then to tell her -- 21 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Her children -- her
22 CHAIRMAN BARNES: We could -- if we get rid 22 child about it.
23 of that paragraph. we need to get rid of the next two. 23 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Can we take a short break?
24 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Keep the third. . 24 (A BREAK WAS TAKEN.)
25 CHAIRMAN BARNES: This one? 25 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Okay. Back from break.
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Page 11 Page 72
1 So the plan relating to the Associated Press 1 were made. Missouri -- Associated Press was first,
2 interview. the Missouri Press Association video. and 2 then I believe there's the Budget Press Conference:
3 the budget and press conference video. is that at the 3 then there was the Missouri Press Association video.
4 conclusion of our hearing today -- actually. before we 4 And my thought was to take the relevant questions out
5 gavel out, the court reporter will take down a 5 and put the relevant questions and answers in the
6 transcription of those audio so that we have her 6 report. because it for example. in the Budget Press
7 transcription rather than a member?s transcription of 7 Conference, there?s ten questions about the budget.
8 it. And the citations will be to where it is online so 8 There?s no need -- but she would take a transcription
9 that people viewing it out in public can listen to it 9 of the entire press conference.
10 for themselves. and to the transcript that we're 10 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Okay. For the
11 creating here today. 11 reasons I?ve stated earlier, I certainly just register
12 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: So if I understand it 12 my objection to including any of those three. but 
13 right, we?ll have two paragraphs that have the -- the 13 CHAIRMAN BARNES: But if we're going to do
14 interview and video -- audio and video of an interview 14 it. do you agree that that's the best way to do so?
15 in toto. and we?ll have another one where it?s just an 15 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Yeah. I agree with
16 audio in toto, and that's going to be the two 16 that.
1? paragraphs. And it will only say. here it is. here's 17 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Okay. All right. We have
18 the cite reference. and then it will also represent an 18 this last paragraph and then we're going to circle back
19 exhibit, which will be the court reporter's 19 to some things.
20 transcription of what is said in the airings? 20 So paragraph 81. Witness 1 testified to her
21 CHAIRMAN BARNES: It will be three. 21 concerns. Again. I think this is relevant to state of
22 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Okay. 22 mind and to her coming forward right now or talking to
23 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Because there's the 23 our Committee. I wouldn't even say that she has come
24 Associated Press. there's the Missouri Press I'm 24 forward. She has talked to people at this point in
25 sorry. I'll do it in chronological order of when they 25 time, but that?s why I think her concerns should be in.
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Page 73

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: And I -- and I don't
think her state of mind subsequent to the events that
we're talking about is -- is relevant. I just -- I
just don't get it. I mean. And they talk about
somebody?s emotions as they are now or after the events
that we're investigating; I just don't see how it's
relevant. I just can?t see it.

CHAIRMAN BARNES: And and here?s my
question about that is. one thing that we've heard --
and not just this case. I think it?s a lot of cases --
is. people see a lapse in reporting something like this
as some sort of evidence of lack of credibility by the
person saying it. And I think that her state of mind
after it happened is relevant to the reporting or not
reporting.

And if we're comfortable as a Committee
saying, a lapse in time and not the -- the failure to
immediately report this has no bearing on the
credibility of what is said, okay, then all of this
stuff is -- is not necessary, because that?s the
conclusion that it goes to is, there are reasons people
in this situation don't report right away. And I think
that her fear goes to one of those reasons.

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Now, I can --

conversely. I think, putting in her fears right here,

 

 

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CHAIRMAN BARNES: Okay. Representative
Phillips?

REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: I don't know.

REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Could you go back to
the beginning of that dialogue so I can get the
reference back in check?

CHAIRMAN BARNES: I want to make it clear in
the transcript here, we have no evidence of an actual
physical threat after these encounters were -- were
over. I just want to make that -- that clear. so that
there's no mistaking that.

REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: Now. am I right in
saying that there has not been any contact between him
and her since the last encounter that they had?

REPRESENTATIVE: That was her testimony.

REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON: That was her
testimony.

REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: Uh-huh.

CHAIRMAN BARNES: Since -- yes. since
the -- the email in October of '15.

Is that correct? Does everyone agree with my
recollection?

REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Yeah.

REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: Uh?huh.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: With Greitens, you

 

 

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Page 74
people will infer that there's actual threats of
violence used by either Eric Greitens or her ex.
CHAIRMAN BARNES: But 
REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: You're saying that if
we just put it in a paragraph that, hey, from our

review of the transcript in total. we see no reason to

believe that her delay in reporting is -- in any way
affects her credibility. I -- I mean, that?s something
I can --

REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: She?s never reported
anything though.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: No.

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: But I can live with
that: it's not being saying she's not credible, you
know.

REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: And I think even now.
since it came to light in January, she could have went
to the police and made a report. and she's failed to do
so.

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Instead of those two
paragraphs talking about her kids and the fear she had,
if we put in something to allay your concerns that
people don't read in to this that there's a credibility
factor in her delaying in her reporting or not

reporting, I mean. I I'm okay.

 

 

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Page 76
mean?
REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: Correct.
CHAIRMAN BARNES: So. Representative Austin,
are you proposing we would take IO, 71 -- 70 and 71
would come out.r and then we?d leave T2 and -- actually.
in their place we would say --
REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: In the review of the
evidence in total. this Committee does not view
Witness l's delay or -- I don't want to say failure.
but non-reporting of these events to -- to lead us to
question her credibility. I mean --
REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Is it a question

or --
REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: Uh-huh.
REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: The concern that was

expressed was -- because when she didn't come forward

with this 

REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Uh-huh.
REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: -- that she's not
telling the truth now.

REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Who thought of that
concern?

SECRETARY CURCHIN: Disclosure.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Yeah. Disclosure.

SECRETARY CURCHIN: Instead of involving.

 

 

 

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1 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: I agree. 1 actual physical threat out there.
2 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Delay. 2 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: And it's still in the
3 SECRETARY CURCHIN: Delay. 3 transcripts, which will be part of our report.
4 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: No. 0r decision to 4 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Okay. Representative
5 not -- I mean 5 Phillips?
6 SECRETARY CURCHIN: 0r lack of public 6 REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: Uh-huh.
I disclosure. 7 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Representative Lauer?
8 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Yeah. REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Sure. Okay. Now
9 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Well, why even say 9 wait, are we taking we?re taking 70 out then?
10 public, because even if she reported it to the police, 10 CHAIRMAN BARNES: 70 and 71.
11 that would -- you wouldn?t want to include that. 11 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Okay. Could we go
12 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: Well, if she reported 12 back up to 69 -- let's see. where we're at.
13 it to the police, it wouldn't be public. 13 CHAIRMAN BARNES: 69 is interviews. 30 10
I4 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Right. So just 14 and 71 are out. In review of the evidence, this
15 leave 15 Committee does not view witness 1's lack of reporting
16 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Lack of reporting of the 16 of the events to law enforcement or others as bearing
17 events to law enforcement or others as bearing on her 11 on her credibility.
15 credibility. 18 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Okay. Well, I go back
19 COUNSELOR HALLEN: And/or after enforcement. 19 to that very last line about her being concerned about
20 CHAIRMAN BARNES: That gets us out of this 20 her physical well being, whether that's real or
2l space of having this -- I think that she did have 21 imagined.
22 fears, but there was no we have no evidence of any 22 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Hold on. Witness 1?5
23 actual. physical threat. And so it's relevant to the 23 non-reporting of the events. Of these events?
24 extent it's to her state of mind, but I -- we don't 24 Oh, I hate it when it does that: I don't know
25 want to create any misimpression that there was an 25 what that means. How do I fix that?

 

 

 

 

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1 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: What? 1 lot going on and that she's a different person than she
2 CHAIRMAN BARNES: All right. Okay. 2 was then?
3 Representative Lauer? 3 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Yes, she did.
4 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: We took out that part 4 REPRESENTATIVE MITTENabout, I wasn't as much worried about the picture as I 5 find that.
6 was for my physical well being. Is that correct, we 6 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: Which, obviously, I
7 took that out? 7 think you could tell by interviewing her and what she
8 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Yes. 8 talked about the actions that she did then and the way
9 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Real or imagined, 9 she was handling herself now. I gathered that she,
10 that -- that I -- that creates a level of severity to 10 obviously, was dealing with a lot, and that she's
11 the events. 11 probably at a better place now than she was then.
12 CHAIRMAN BARNES: I think that 12 REPRESENTATIVE: So to speak.
l3 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Or the significance of 13 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Yeah, I think more than so
14 the events or 14 to speak. I think most -- most definitely.
15 CHAIRMAN BARNES: I think that it does, but 15 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: Even with the actions
16 it goes to her state of mind, and I think the purpose 16 that are going on.
17 of going to her state of mind is to say that, look, the l? REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: So the parts that he
18 fact that she didn't report this right away doesn't 18 denies are the parts we're finally dealing with, and I
19 mean doesn't go to her credibility. There -- 19 feel sad for that person I was that was so vulnerable.
20 because there?s other -- there -- we have this other 20 Is that what you?re talking about?
21 evidence of her state of mind, which is a reason. 21 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Yeah. Yeah, here we go,
22 Representative Rhoads? 22 and we have that at 11. I?m also dealing with things
23 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: I don?t have the 23 for the first time these past two months --
24 transcript to say go back to, but did she reference 24 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Yes.
25 that at that point in time in her life that there was a 25 CHAIRMAN BARNES: -- that I never did before.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Page 81 Page 82

1 I just pushed them aside because it was too scary. I 1 get to this issue of the idea that is floated out there

2 didn?t want to think about it. I didn't want to talk 2 publicly. at least. that. oh. if it wasn't reported.

3 about it. I just wanted it to go away. and that maybe 3 you know. then it must not have been so bad or must not

4 it never happened like that. 4 have happened.

5 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: Okay. Thank you. 5 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: okay.

6 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Mr. Chair. I'm just -- 6 CHAIRMAN BARNES: I I think the point of

7 one more. please? I that is to rebut that general idea that if someone

8 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Yes. ma?am. 8 doesn't report it right away. it must not have

9 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: If I had an incident 9 happened. which that's not true as it -- in some cases
10 occur and I came to any one of you and said. I'm very 10 it could be true and some cases not. but 
11 uncomfortable with this. that creates a level of 11 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Generally speaking.
l2 severity or seriousness. If I come to you and say. I'm 12 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Generally speaking in this
13 really fearful of my physical well being. that is a 13 area. I mean. we could talk to experts in this area.
14 whole other level. And for that person. whether it is 14 who I think will tell you that. again. her actions are
15 perceived by the outside world or not. for that person 15 not atypical of people --
16 that is a reality. It it is a level of state of 16 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: True.
17 mind. but it also is a -- a thing that impacts their 1? CHAIRMAN BARNES: -- in this situation. And
18 total behavior. their everything they're going to do 18 so in place of having all of that. if we just get to
19 during the day. It's going to run -- run through that 19 the larger point of the non-reporting has no bearing on
20 person. so it's more than just a statement. 20 her credibility based on what she's told us. that gets
21 CHAIRMAN BARNES: I think that?s true. but I 21 us to the that actually gets us to the conclusion --
22 also I?m concerned about -- we want to be clear that 22 it skips past those facts and gets to the conclusion to
23 we have no evidence of an actual physical threat. And 23 which those facts. I believe. are relevant.
24 I think that getting to the reason I -- I wanted to 26 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Okay. Yeah. my
25 include that was to get to the state of mind to -- to 25 underlying -- I -- I get that now. My underlying

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Page 83 Page 84
1 concern is that we?re not over-diluting that statement. 1 I would -- I would leave that in.
2 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Yeah. I don't -- I don't 2 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: I don't see the
3 think that we are diluting it. And. I mean. it's still 3 relevance.
4 going to be in the transcript. 4 CHAIRMAN BARNES: I mean --
5 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Yes. 5 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: I mean. again. I
6 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Remember that. so -- I 5 think we could be using ellipses with a lot of this.
7 would imagine these transcripts are going to be picked We start with. you know. how will this affect my kids.
8 apart. not just -- you know. people are going to read 8 because it has: what's going to come of all this --
9 our report first. and then they're going to go pick 9 dot. dot. dot. What will people think of me or. you
10 these transcripts apart. and then they?re going -- 10 know. what?s going to come of this. what will people
11 they're going to ask. well. why didn?t they include 11 think of me -- dot. dot. dot.
12 this in the report. 12 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Every time we use
13 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Yes. 13 ellipses --
14 CHAIRMAN BARNES: So -- 14 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: I have a huge client
15 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Because it's in the 15 base --
16 transcript. 16 CHAIRMAN BARNES: -- we are making a judgment
1? CHAIRMAN BARNES: Well. because it is. and 1? as to our words. not witnesses' words.
18 there are some things that are not in the report: we 18 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: That's not true.
19 also know they're in the transcript. 19 We're just -- we're -- we?re -- I disagree with that.
20 Okay. So 80. those are present concerns. and 20 but -- and the transcripts are available. I mean.
21 I feel like that goes to. again I think this goes to 21 that?s part of my concern is that I think that we're
22 her credibility. and it was kind of her -- I think 22 putting in a lot -- if we?re trying to tell sort of a
23 that?s what she might have said at the end when we 23 succinct story. I think that we could be far more
24 said. do you want you know. we've given a couple of 24 succinct.
25 witnesses the opportunity to end with a statement. So 25 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Should we put

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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something in the report then that says this this is. 1 actions that occurred in 2014, '15, and '16.
2 indeed -- not like a summary. but this is the key 2 CHAIRMAN BARNES: I think it goes to. again.
3 findings and the actual transcript is available for -- 3 her credibility. It also is a good for purposes of
4 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Oh, my plan is to attach 4 a report that wraps up. it's, like. her last statement.
5 the transcripts 5 It is a wrap-up of where we are to finish the report.
6 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Yes. 6 and I think it does go to her credibility again. It
7 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Okay. 7 goes to -- this is the one thing I've just kept in the
8 CHAIRMAN BARNES: -- to the digital report. 8 pit of my stomach: I never talk about this.
9 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: But do we need to 9 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: Yeah. but that's --
10 state that right at the beginning? 10 that's vague. I'm sorry. But that?s a vague
11 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Okay. 11 statement. What did she put in the pit of her
12 CHAIRMAN BARNES: I -- no. I think it will be 12 stomach?
13 obvious 13 CHAIRMAN BARNES: I think if you go to her
14 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Okay. 14 statement up here about the -- the -- I'm dealing with
15 CHAIRMAN BARNES: to anyone who gets the 15 this. the parts that Eric denies are the parts that
16 report the transcripts are -- it will be one packet. 16 were hurtful, the other parts were traumatic to me.
17 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: okay. 1? She's talking about these things that she pushed aside
18 CHAIRMAN BARNES: My idea is that Trevor will 18 because it was too scary.
19 send out a single packet that -- so -- and then 19 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: I get it. but. again.
20 wherever if it's posted online. it will be all 20 what did Eric deny?
21 together. 21 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Well 
22 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: I mean, certainly it 22 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: We haven't talked to
23 evokes sympathy for her. She has her kids, she has her 23 Eric.
24 clients. she's in school. she's trying to move on with 24 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Well. here's what he --
25 her life. I just don't see why that's relevant to the 25 here?s what he's publicly said. We have his public

 

 

 

 

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statements that she's aware of. 1 it; she was just trying to move on.

2 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: I understand -- I 2 CHAIRMAN BARNES: And then it?s also not

3 understand that she quoted a news article or media 3 weighed down by the physical violence language for

4 whatever -- 4 which we have no evidence of an actual threat being

5 CHAIRMAN BARNES: This is not a news article. 5 made.

6 these are the -- his words from a tape recording and 6 Representative Pierson?

I from a video. 7 REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON: Well. we know

8 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: Of a news a media 8 what -- I mean. we know what Governor Greitens is doing

9 outlet. 9 now. and we know what this woman is doing now, and it
10 CHAIRMAN BARNES: That he said -- this is not 10 kind of puts it in that context.

11 a -- they?re his words. 11 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: That's the same things
12 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: Wellr I mean. we 12 Greitens said. We?ve we've reconciled this: we're
13 can we can get around that. I mean. I don?t -- I 13 moving on and we're 

14 think probably both those sections. I mean. I made it 14 REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON: Yeah. And it's kind
15 clear I'm not happy with referencing the -- the media 15 of her current state.
16 on that, and I'm probably with Representative Austin on 16 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Well. I don't -- it's not
17 this section of that. 17 the same thing. I don't think it's the same thing he
18 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Paragraph 80? 18 said.

19 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: Correct. 19 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: And what he said is
20 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Representative Lauer? 20 not in our report.
21 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: I think this goes back 21 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Well, yeah.
22 and -- and confirms what we just said as to why she 22 CHAIRMAN BARNES: So --
23 didn?t report. She just wanted to move on. She didn't 23 REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON: I'm fine with it
24 want to have it out in the public. she didn't want to 24 being there.
25 have to report it, she didn't want to have to deal with 25 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Okay. Representative

 

 

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1 Phillips? I 1 REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: Aye.
2 REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: I'll just -- you 2 SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative Mitten?
3 know; I haven?t had a problem with it. but I told you I 3 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Aye.
4 didn?t have a problem with much of any of it we've 4 SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative Lauer?
5 been picking apart. 5 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Aye.
6 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Representative Mitten? 6 SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative Austin?
7 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: I'm okay with it. 7 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Aye.
8 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Let?s -- it?s a potential 8 SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative Rhoads?
9 parking lot. let's go up to our real conflict. Right. 9 REPRESENTATIVE RHOABS: Aye.
10 So -- okay. So in my plan here. we're going 10 SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative Pierson?
11 to vote in a little while to well. why don't we just 2 11 REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON: Aye.
12 vote now to bifurcate the report because now that 12 CHAIRMAN BARNES: By a vote of seven ayes.
13 we're at this point. 13 and zero no. you have voted for a bifurcation. And
14 So I move that this Committee bifurcate this i 14 I -- I should have put this before. but I want to state
15 report such that we release the part that we have 15 this on the record. I think I talked to everyone
16 reviewed so far today next week. and we place all of 16 individually today on the House floor. We have. in The
17 the stuff relating to The Mission Continues and the 17 Mission Continues and campaign part of the report. we
18 campaign in a separate report to be released at a later 18 have a substantial number of emails that still need
19 time. i 19 review that are already in our possession. And we
20 Discussion on that motion? 20 have. based on the witness testimony we received this
21 Seeing none. Mr. Secretary. please call the 21 week. maybe ten. maybe more -- somewhere around there.
22 roll. 22 but a significant number of new paragraphs that the
23 SECRETARY CURCHIN: Chairman Barnes? I 23 members of this Committee have not had any opportunity
24 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Aye. 24 to review before today?s hearing. And I don?t think
25 SECRETARY CURCHIN: Vice-Chair Phillips? 5 25 it?s fair to just plop this up on the screen and say.
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1 hey. let?s discusa and vote on it very quickly. 1 Witness 1. First. I want to just ask the open
2 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: And it?s not fair to 2 question. Is there anyone who believes that Witness 3
3 the recipients of this report for us to sit there and 3 is a credible witness?
4 do willy-hilly knee-jerk reactions. 4 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: I'm going to go on
5 CHAIRMAN BARNES: That's exactly right. 5 the record and say absolutely not.
6 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Agreed. 6 CHAIRMAN BARNES: I'm going to go on record
7 CHAIRMAN BARNES: So I what I would 7 with you and say absolutely not.
propose to the Committee is. after we're finished here 8 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: I agree.
9 today. I will cut everything relating to The Mission 9 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: I join.
10 Continues and the campaign out of the report. paste it 10 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: I think if you read
11 into a different document that will then become the 11 his --
12 first draft of Report No. 2. Which also means as we go 12 REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: I don?t believe
13 up here. where we -- starting here. on this on 13 he?s credible either.
14 March 14. 2018. all of that is going to come out of the 14 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: If you read the
15 report. all of those bullet points. because they relate 15 transcript. he contradicts himself several times.
16 to -- it?s going to create an interesting situation 16 CHAIRMAN BARNES: So the debate here is in
l? with our exhibits. because our exhibits 1? our redactions. Do you want to pull up -- can we get
18 span but -- but we're good. Okay. 18 that on the screen?
19 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: 30 along with that. 19 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: I can.
20 Mr. Chair. do we need to ask for a continuance? 20 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Well. hold on; time
21 CHAIRMAN BARNES: We will we will get to 21 out. what do we -- I mean. the redactions are kind of
22 that. 22 like part two.
23 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Okay. 23 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Yeah. actually, we need --
24 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Now. for the big 24 we probably need to be off the record. But it relates
2S discussion. Paragraph 3. Witness 3. the ex-husband of 25 to how Paragraph 3 is going to be written. which is
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1 about Witness REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: See, I don't '2 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: You mean just cut out
3 understand quite either what you?re getting here on 3 Paragraph 3 altogether?
4 Paragraph 3, for the reasons set forth below. Well, 4 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Well, no, because he
5 there's nothing below, there's an attached transcript. 5 did authenticate -- here's here's -- here's the way
6 CHAIRMAN BARNES: There are some things about 6 that I see this. He did authenticate the recording,
1 Witness 1 set forth below about Witness 3 -- I'm 1 and obviously the recording is something that is a part
8 sorry -- about Witness 3, but it's way below. So let's 8 of our report. And the recording, to some extent, and
9 get -- we can start by deleting this, okay? 9 portions of the transcript, is already out in the
10 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Yeah. 10 public domain. 50 this Committee, as part of its
11 CHAIRMAN BARNES: We could add a sentence I ll investigation, has said this recording is authentic.
12 here that says, the Committee only accepts Witness 3's 12 We believe do we believe that the
13 testimony for purposes of authenticating -- 13 recording is authentic? I believe that. I'm happy to
14 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: No. I mean, why 14 go on record saying that. And the rest of his
15 would we need to say that? 15 testimony is just his testimony. It's out there. Why
16 REPRESENTATIVE: Say say what? 16 does our report have to go specifically into --
l? REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: The Committee only 2 1? CHAIRMAN BARNES: Well, I think that -- to
18 accepted the testimony, I mean -- 18 that point, a little bit, we don't testify as to
19 CHAIRMAN BARNES: No, we accepted the - 19 credibility of witnesses to or for either. And I think
20 testimony. We only -- the only thing he?s -- that he 5 20 we all thought -- I -- general consensus might have
21 says that I think is is that he 5 21 been that Witness 4 was the most credible witness of
22 authenticates the tape recording. 22 all. Maybe not, I don't know.
23 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Again, I have a 23 But -- go ahead Representative Austin.
24 hard his testimony is what his testimony is, and it 2 24 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: So I mean, Gina, are
25 seems to me the testimony should just be out there. i 25 you saying leave Paragraph 3 as it is, don't add
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anything else, and we'll move on? 1 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: No, as is.
2 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Yeah. 2 CHAIRMAN BARNES: We?ll leave it as is.
3 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Well, I don't know 3 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Right, yeah.
4 that I disagree with that. I know, what's happening 4 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Leave it as is. So that 
5 here? 5 we've -- okay.
6 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: Are you talking about 6 REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON: Because --
7 putting the sentence back in it that you took out; is 7 because did Witness 1 also authenticate the recording?
8 that what you're talking about, Representative Mitten? 8 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Witness 1 also
9 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Yeah, just leave it 9 authenticated the recording.
10 as it is. 10 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Yes.
11 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Yeah. And then if 11 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: No, only to, like,
12 we -- if we happen to redact something from his 12 Page 
13 transcript, then we do. 13 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: That?s true.
14 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Right. It's not his 14 CHAIRMAN BARNES: That's right. That?s
15 transcript, it's Witness 1's transcript. 15 right.
16 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Oh, it's -- yes. 16 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Okay. Got you. But
17 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: I'm going was her voice.
18 going to you may not ever hear this again, but I do 18 CHAIRMAN BARNES: It says it's her voice, but
19 agree with Representative Mitten. 19 she never listened to it and she didn't read the --
20 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: For the record -- 20 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: And she didn?t Want
21 COUNSELOR HALLEN: You've got to quit now. 21 to.
22 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Yeah, exactly, I 22 REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON: Okay.
23 think I'm about to have a heart attack. 23 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Why is -- do we know why
24 CHAIRMAN BARNES: All right. We'll take it 24 this is highlighted: did I miss that?
25 out. 25 COUNSELOR HALLEN: Because we didn't have an
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1 exhibit number. I 1 make a record of how we're handling this. It's kind of
2 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: Yeah, because it says 2 hard for-us to have a redactions conversation on the
3 see EX. and then capital 3 record. because we've got to talk about the substance
4 REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON: Then what about 4 of the redaction --
5 this? 5 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: No. We can -- 
6 CHAIRMAN BARNES: We have to -- we have to 6 CHAIRMAN BARNES: -- or we're going to redact 
1 number these exhibits. that's why that?s there. the whole darn thing. 
8 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: I think you wanted a REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: We can absolutely do
9 just a colon there, because then you're quoting. 9 it. We?ll put the things up. and it's by page and line
10 CHAIRMAN BARNES: I -- I don't if no one 10 number.
11 has an issue with this paragraph. it might have been an 11 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: But that's 
12 accidental highlight. 12 CHAIRMAN BARNES: But we -- but we have to
13 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: I think that -- 13 talk about the contents of the page and line number. I
14 actually. I think that that needs to be moved to the 14 mean, we're going to debate whether to do it or not. in
15 beginning the beginning of Paragraph 7. Witness 1 15 debating whether to redaot something.
16 testified from the fall -- dah, dah, dah. dah. 16 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: I understand. I
17 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Oh, you know what -- what's 17 would ask that run into
18 the difference between the footnotes in 6 and So 6 18 trouble9.11 to 9. 18. Okay. We?ve got 19 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Fair enough.
20 a -- there?s a distinction there, so let?s leave those 20 Representative Austin?
21 separate. 21 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: I bet you there's
22 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Okay. Time for 22 only one or two redaction issues, correct?
23 redactions? 23 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Exactly.
24 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Yes. How do we want to -- 24 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Yes. And they're -- I
25 well, the first question is, how do we -- I want to 25 think they're related.
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1 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Do we want to take -- i 1 Wait a minute. That might be a little bit 
2 do we want to take a restroom break before we get into 2 what page are you on there? Oh. there we go. Let's go
3 the redactions? 3 down to Line 17. Yeah. No, no, no. We want the --
4 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Sure. 4 from -- from after the again on Line into I said
5 CHAIRMAN BARNES: I'm fine with that. Let?s 5 on Line 22. Yeah.
6 go off the record. 6 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Does everyone concur with
(A BREAK WAS TAKEN.) 7 that?
8 CHAIRMAN BARNES: We're back from break to GROUP RESPONSE: Yes.
9 speak about redactions and -- 9 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Hearing all ayes and no
10 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Can I just make a 10 objections. everyone agrees to that redaction.
ll proposal? 11 In addition to this redaction, we have --
12 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Well, yes, in just a 12 there has been available the transcripts where there
13 minute. I think the Committee is in agreement on go 13 are a number of other redactions for which I don't
14 ahead Representative Mitten. 14 think there's any great controversy. If anyone has any
15 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Well. okay: so I 15 other areas they deem need to be redacted right now,
16 propose that we do not redact the portions on basically 16 speak up.
1? the late 40's. I think. In the transcript for 1? Seeing none. we have a redaction plan.
18 Witness 1. the pages, I think it?s about 47 through 49. 13 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Great. And just if I
19 but we do redact on Page 9. Lines 18 through 21 -- 19 could, I want to make it clear on the record. and I
20 excuse me. through 22. Did I say Line 9? 20 believe that our disclaimer may have already addressed
21 CHAIRMAN BARNES: You said Page 9. 21 that, but I don't believe that other than names, there
22 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Page -- I'll get this 22 are some references to dates that could be seen as
23 right. Page 96, Lines 18 through 22; Page 97, Lines 1 23 identifying. I I I don't believe we have
24 and 2; Page Lines 8 through 11: Page 97. the middle 24 redacted anything of substance, other than other
25 of Line 17 to this on Line 19. 25 than information that could be -- readily identify the
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1 witnesses 1, 2, 3, or 4, or their family members or
2 their locations of their homes for instance.
3 If I have somehow forgotten something, I hope
4 that somebody on the Committee will remind me. And if
5 I come across something in my travels over the weekend,
6 I will certainly remind the members.
1 CHAIRMAN BARNES: We will all need Monday and
8 Tuesday to take a look at this with fresh eyes.
9 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Yes.
10 CHAIRMAN BARNES: And it's very -- I think
11 it's very important to we don't want to
12 unintentionally let something out. For example, today,
13 Representative Pierson found a footnote in the report
14 that contained a -- a witness? name.
15 Okay. So, so ends our discuss on redactions.
16 We have -- so we've moved for bifurcation.
1? And our due date depends on how you judge this
18 calendar, is either Saturday, Monday, or Tuesday. I'm
19 going to move that we release this report on Wednesday,
20 which is 24 hours later. We're going to go through the
21 process of making sure -- dotting I's, crossing T's on
22 redactions and this report, and notify -- notifying
23 members of this body and both Caucuses shortly before
24 making the report available to the public.
25 I think that we owe that to our colleagues
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1 CHAIRMAN BARNES: And so, now I move that we
2 extend the Committee until May 16, 2018. Further
3 discussion on the motion?
4 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Chair, with all due
5 respect, I have expressed some concerns about the
6 ability to perform and I suspect that I'm not alone
7 in this to perform my legislative duties during the
8 course of this, you know, in order to accommodate the
9 needs of this Committee, and I -- I want to express
10 those concerns again. I think that it has been 
11 there are some ways in which Majority leadership has
12 been accommodating, but there are some ways in which
13 they have absolute -- I don't feel that they have been.
14 And it certainly puts an additional burden on us.
15 I would hope that we would be able to explore
16 hiring some assistants to help with the -- with the
1? work of this Committee. If we're going to extend it
18 and we're going to do it by Committee vote and not by a
19 new resolution, I do think that some of these things
20 need to be at least I personally feel that I need to
21 express my concerns about this, and I I I just
22 feel that that's important.
23 So my hope would be that we can work together
24 moving forward if this Committee is going to stay
25 intact until the end of session, because it has and
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who have placed a lot of trust in us to do this and
have been asking us many question for the last 40 days
about where we are and how's it going and what?s going
on. And I think we deserve -- they deserve to know
before the public release of the information.

Discussion on the motion?

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: When you say they
deserve to know, what does that mean?

CHAIRMAN BARNES: I think that we should have
discussions with -- Caucus discussions about the facts
of the report shortly before it becomes public. I?m
not talking about 24?hours' notice. If -- if people
don?t think they can trust their Caucus members for 30
minutes 

REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: Oh, it will become
public alright.

CHAIRMAN BARNES: It's on its way to becoming
public, so any tweet storm that follows will soon be
swallowed by the report itself.

REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON: Is there -- so -- so
the Resolution -- the Resolution said -- yeah, we need
to --

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Let's go Off the
record.

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1 I can?t speak for any other member but myself, but it

2 has been a -- a a strain.

3 I CHAIRMAN BARNES: Representative Pierson?

4 REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON: And I echo the

5 sentiments of Representative Mitten. Even as we go

6 into further investigation, it seems that we are moving

2 into a realm of evidence review, so it's kind of a

8 different flavor and feel to the investigation that is

9 just headed into a kind of a different realm of depth.
10 Again, with evidence review, as opposed to interviews
11 and those types of things, which I think require some
12 expertise in some areas, which require more timeecho what Representative Mitten has
14 expressed.

15 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: And I just -- I'm

16 sorry. I want to reiterate -- I will I'm sorry.

11 Well, here's the thing, as we move --
l8 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Representative Mitten?
19 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: -- as we move towards
20 the -- you know, we're coming around the bend to the
21 end of session and -- and the idea that my at least
22 my colleague, Tommie and I actually feel this way
23 about all members of the Committee. To the extent that
24 this Committee meets while we are in session, it is a

25 problem for me, and it's going to -- it?s going to be a

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1 bigger problem as we start getting -- as we go from
2 waist deep to shoulder deep in bills that are going
3 to you know, that have the potential to end up on
4 the Governor?s deskthe time this Resolution was
6 drafted, you know, I think that we all worked together
7 in good faith, and I appreciate that, but I do have
8 concerns that as we're going to be you know, as the
9 Floor Leader schedules six or eight hours or ten hours
10 on the floor, in addition to trying to prepare for and
11 take witness testimony or review documents, that's
12 going to be problematic, and I feel that that needs to
13 be expressed.
14 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Further discussion? Point
15 is taken. I think that we have worked together to try
16 to avoid missing session. We've missed -- is it twice,
17 and not that much those two days. But even though we
18 had a missed session, taking away preparation time is
19 also important. You have my continued commitment, the
20 members of this Committee, we?re all bearing a heavier
21 load here because of this Committee, both time wise and
22 brain space. And I don't think it's been a cake walk
23 for anyone to be on this Committee and adding it to the
24 other responsibilities they had. And so you have my
25 commitment that I will work with the two of you and
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REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Aye.
2 SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative Rhoads?
3 REPRESENTATIVE RHOAOS: Aye.
4 SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative Pierson,
5 Jr.?
6 REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON: Aye.
7 CHAIRMAN BARNES: By your vote of seven 
8 and zero no, you have voted to extend the Committee,
9 the Resolution under which it is operating, until
10 May 18, 2018.
11 I now move that we vote to issue I now
12 vote that we cancel tomorrow?s hearing.
13 SECRETARY CURCHIN: Do you need to vote on a
14 report issuance date?
15 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Yes.
16 SECRETARY CURCHIN: Okay.
REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: If we're exceeding.
18 SECRETARY CURCHIN: You've already extended
19 the authority of the Committee.
20 REPRESENTATIVE MITTENdeadline for the report.
22 SECRETARY CURCHIN: Okay.
23 CHAIRMAN BARNES: For the Committee's
24 knowledge, we have canceled tomorrow's hearing because
25 we got through the stuff we needed to do today.
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1 every member of this Committee to try to make these
2 things work and to work with leadership about that, as
3 well 
4 Representative?
5 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: I might just add that:
6 I agree, everyone's worked well together and in good
1 faith. And to end it now, I feel that we.wou1d not
8 have completed due diligence in the process. This is
9 significantly important, and so is the legislative part
10 of this, too; they?re all important. But, of course,
11 we don?t want to out anything short. And I would
12 suggest that we try to balance this as best we can with
13 the Chair's help.
14 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Further discussion?
15 Seeing none, all those in favor will vote.
16 Mr. Secretary, please call roll.
1? SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative Barnes?
18 REP BARNES: Aye.
19 SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative Phillips?
20 REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: Aye.
21 SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative Mitten?
22 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Aye.
23 SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative Lauer?
2Q REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Aye.
25 SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative Austin?
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1 I now move that we vote to release the report
2 on Wednesday of next week. We?ve got a little more
3 work to do, and I want to make sure that we?ve got this
4 right and the report that we?re speaking of relates to
5 everything that we?ve reviewed today.
6 Discussion on the motion?
7 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Just briefly. I'm
8 sorry, guys. I know I know we all need -- want to
9 get out of here. I appreciate the Chair working with
10 us in this regard. I, obviously, am not particularly
11 happy about the delay. I am going to support the
12 delay.
13 Can -- you know, there was some discussion
14 earlier about being on the record; I do believe that
15 it's important that the issuance of the that we
16 comport with the Resolution. I just want to make sure
17 our record is clear because we went down a different
18 path and then came back and had a motion withdrawn, and
19 I think that it's important that because the Resolution
20 has a specific outline of who in the body is able to
21 receive information from the members of this Committee
22 as to the witnesses or the testimony or the evidence,
23 that we all understand that that has not been changed,
24 and that our report will be issued contemporaneously
25 with any discussions that anybody wants to have with
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1 members of their Caucus. Is that a fair I 1 Mr. Chair?
2 characterization? 2 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Yes, ma'am.
3 CHAIRMAN BARNES: I think that?s a fair 3 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: That this would be the
4 characterization. I think we punted the issue of that 4 Speaker's decision to make, as far as the release of
5 notification until next week and further discussions on 5 the information, or is it the Committee?s?
6 the mechanics of that. 6 CHAIRMAN BARNES: I -- I believe that it's
7 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Okay. So is the idea I the Committee's decision to make the release of the
then that we're going to release, what. the end of a report.
9 business on Wednesday? Is there a time that we?re 9 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Okay.
10 talking about? 10 CHAIRMAN BARNES: And we're going to do it --
11 CHAIRMAN BARNES: I would guess in the 5 11 my motion is to do it on Wednesday.
12 afternoon on Wednesday would be 12 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Okay. Thank you.
13 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Okay. 13 REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON: And is it the
14 CHAIRMAN BARNES: And I don't want to set a 14 Committee's decision on how the report is released, as
15 specific time 15 well, the mechanics of that?
16 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: I understand. 5 16 CHAIRMAN BARNES: I think that it is the
17 CHAIRMAN BARNES: in this motion. I just 5 1? Committee's decision. but I believe that next week
18 want to state that we will we will release the i 18 Monday, Tuesday. Wednesday, we're going to have a
19 report on Wednesday of next week, which would be -- 19 broader conversation amongst -- how -- Majority Party
20 SECRETARY CURCHIN: April 11. 20 and Minority Party leadership about mechanics. We are
21 CHAIRMAN BARNES: April 11th. So Wednesday, I 21 not -- you know, we're not an island here. We?re --
22 April 11th. And it?s a 24-hour delay. 22 our colleagues put a lot of trust in us and want to
23 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: I understand. I 23 consult with others.
24 understand. 5 24 So the motion on the table is to release the
25 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Then could I clarify, 25 report on Wednesday, April 11th. All those in favor
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1 will vote yes. I 1 SECRETARY CURCHIN: We are noticed up.
2 Mr. Secretary. please call the roll. 2 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Perfect. Perfect.
3 SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative Barnes? 3 Do we need to close it?
4 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Aye. 4 SECRETARY CURCHIN: Two o?clock. We need to
5 SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative Phillips? 5 vote to close it if you want it closed.
6 REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: Aye. 6 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Okay. Let's Vote to close
7 SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative Mitten? 7 it. I vote to close Monday's hearing at two p.m. All
8 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Aye. 8 those in favor will vote aye.
9 SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative Lauer? 9 Mr. Secretary, please call the roll.
10 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Aye. 10 SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative Barnes?
11 SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative Austin? 11 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Aye.
12 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Aye. 12 SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative Phillips?
13 SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative Rhoads? 13 REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: Aye.
14 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: Aye. 14 SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative Mitten?
15 SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative Pierson. 15 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Aye.
16 Jr.? 16 SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative Lauer?
l? REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON: Pass. I need a 17 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Aye.
18 comeback. Aye. 18 SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative Austin?
19 CHAIRMAN BARNES: By your vote of seven 19 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Aye.
20 and zero no, you voted to release the report on 20 SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative Rhoads?
21 Wednesday of next week. 21 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: Aye.
22 Representative Mitten? 22 SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative Pierson.
23 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Do we want to meet 23 Jr.?
24 Monday? 24 REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON: Aye.
25 COUNSELOR HALLEN: We need to notice up. 25 CHAIRMAN BARNES: By your vote of seven aye.
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1 zero no, you have voted to close Monday?s hearing at 1 CHAIRMAN BARNES: I will -- I will stick
2 two p.m. 2 around. Yeah, if you've got a long drive, drive home.
3 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Will we be in this 3 All we're going to do is, I'll create a record of what
4 same hearing room then? 4 we're watching and then we'll 
5 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Here. 5 REPRESENTATIVE MITTENCHAIRMAN BARNES: We will be in this hearing 6 now?
1 room. 7 CHAIRMAN BARNES: But we?re not going to end
8 Okay. Now that we're finished, I would like 8 today?s hearing. I will end the hearing 
9 to create a -- the transcript of these two these 9 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Can we stand in
10 three items up here. And so I'm going to hold the 10 recess for a minute while we switch court reporters?
11 Committee hearing open for purposes of creating that 11 CHAIRMAN BARNES: We will stand in recess
12 transcript. Is there any objection 12 while we switch court reporters. We will then do a
13 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Nope. 13 transcript and I will conclude the hearing at the end
14 CHAIRMAN BARNES: -- to that? 14 of the day.
15 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: None. 15 (HEARING IWILL. STAND IN RECESS.)
16 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: I have a question. 16
17 What's the process; she's going to sit in here and -- 17
18 REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: She's got. to leave,- 18
19 we're going to get a new court reporter. 19
20 THE COURT REPORTER: she's waiting outside. 20
21 REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: And she?ll come in. 21
22 watch it, transcribe it? 22
23 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Yes. 23
24 REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: And you will be here 24
25 with her? 25
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Page 115
CERTIFICATE

STATE OF MISSOURI 1

COUNTY OF HOWARD 

I, Tammy F. Ballew, Certified Court Reporter
for the firm of Capital City Court Reporting,
9 P.O. Box 446. Jefferson City. Missouri 65102, do hereby
10 certify that I was personally present at the
11 proceedings had in the above-entitled cause at the time

w-quU'thAJNH

12 and place set forth in the caption sheet hereof; that I
13 then and there took down in Stenomask the proceedings
14 had. and that the above and foregoing is a true and

15 accurate transcription. to the best of my ability, of
16 said proceedings.

 

 

 

 

17 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my
hand this 8th day of April, 2018.

18

19

20 Tammy F. Ballew

CAPITAL CITY COURT REPORTING

21

22

23

24

25
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1 A A A 
2
GOVERNOR ERIC PUBLIC STATEMENTS 3
4 The following were present at the Missouri State Capitol
5 for the audio/video playing of the three public statements
6 by Governor Eric Greitens
1. Associated Press Interview with Missouri Governor Eric 7
Greitens and and Summer Balentine taken 3 JAY BARNES, Chairman of the Special Investigative Committee
January 20th of 2018 9 on Oversight
10
2. YouTube video of Governor Eric Greitens reveals Budget I 11 ALIXANDRA HALLEN, Minority Counsel,
Plans, Monday, January 22, 2013 12 House of Representatives
13

14 SHELLY STEWART, Certified Court Reporter
15 Capital City Court Reporting

3. YouTube video of Governor Eric Greitens

questions and answers on February 8, 201B

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

16
17
Transcribed By: L. STENART, CCR (No. 619} 18
CAPITAL COURT REPORTING 19
Post Office Box 446 2 20
Jefferson City, Missouri 65102 21
Telephone: 573-761?4350 22
The Lake: 573-365?5226 :2
25
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1 0 I 5 1 Sheena and I are strong. Our team is strong. And we?re
2 CHAIRMAN BARNES: It is Thursday, April 5th, 2018 2 excited about what we can do together.
3 at 4t00 p.m. The rest of the members of this Committee 3 In fact, one of the things I'll tell you that?s
4 have been excused to drive home under the agreement that at 4 happened in this process is we've reached out to a lot of
5 this point in time we will have a court reporter transcribe 5 people and a lot of people have reached out to us.
6 three public statements that Governor Eric Greitens made 6 And two of the best conversations I had over the
2 relating to the relationship with Witness one. 7 course of this were actually with two senators. And the
8 The first such recording is an Associated Press 8 other senators who I've had some disagreements with on
9 interview with Governor Greitens that occurred in 9 policy, but they are people who have experienced some pain
10 mid-January 2018 and which is present on the website 10 in their life, and some suffering, some hardship, and they
11 soundcloud.com in what appears to be its full form. 11 were some of the thoughtful, caring People in this whole
12 There are two reporters in the room identified, 12 process.
13 and you can identify them by voice one is Mr. David Lieb, 13 And our conversation, I think, really reset our
14 another is Ms. Summer Balentine and Governor Eric Greitens. 14 relationship. And I'm hopeful about what we can all do
15 The transcription will start now. 15 together moving forward.
16 PLAYING WHILE COURT REPORTER 16 Q. You've apologized --
l7 TRANSCRIBING.) 17 A. Yes.
18 QUESTIONS BY MR. LIEB AND ANSWERS BY GOVERNOR GREITENS: 18 Q. -- for a personal mistake and acknowledged being
19 Q. First of all, thanks for agreeing to meet with 19 unfaithful to your wife. Your attorney has denied some of
20 us. 20 the other allegations that were included in that audio
21 A. Well, thank you guys for making the time to come 21 recording made by your hairdresser's ex-husband. We know
22 out. I appreciate it. 22 these are going to be sort of difficult and maybe
23 Q. I want to ask you about a question right up front 23 uncomfortable questions.
24 here. Are you going to resign from office? 24 A. David, I want you guys to ask every question you
25 A. David, I'm staying. I?m staying. We're strong. 25 have, sir, please.
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1 Q. Very well. Did you tie or bind the hands or
2 blindfold your former hairdresser?
3 A. David, this was a consensual relationship. There
4 was no blackmail. There was no violence. There was no
5 threat of violence. There was no threat of blackmail.
6 There was no threat of using a photograph for blackmail.
All of those things are false. The mistake that
8 I made was that I was engaged in a consensual relationship
9 with a woman who is not my wife. And that is a mistake for
10 which I am very sorry, sorry to Sheena. I?m sorry to our
11 boys. I'm sorry to our family, to our friends and to
12 everyone who has been affected by that.
13 Beyond that this is -- it's a private matter, and
14 everyone involved has asked for privacy, and I respect
15 that, and I would ask you to as well.
16 Q. Did -- did you actually take a photo of her?
1? A. As I said, this was a consensual relationship,
18 David. There was no blackmail. There was no threat of
19 using a photograph for blackmail. And there was no
20 violence.
21 The mistake that I made, as I said, was that I
22 was engaged in a consensual relationship with a woman who
23 wasn't my wife. And beyond that, everyone -- Sheena,
24 everyone has asked for privacy. Again, we would ask you to
25 respect that.
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1 fact that Sheena and everyone has asked for privacy in
2 this.
3 b. Did you tell her about it, Sheena that is, back
4 in 2015, or did it not get discussed with her until, like,
5 recently?
6 A. No. Sheena and I dealt with this years ago.
7 Sheena and I dealt with this back in 2015, and we dealt
8 with it privately. We dealt with it together, and we moved
9 through it together.
10 And it was hard and -- what was hard about it was
11 that I caused pain for the people who moved me the mosthusband and a father is to protect my
13 children and to protect my wife, and I caused pain to them,
14 and that was hard.
15 Q. You indicated there was never any violence, but I
16 want to ask you this directly, because it's come out,
17 someone alleged it: Did you ever slap your former
18 hairdresser?
19 A. Absolutely not.
20 Q. Okay.
21 A. And I also I wanna to be clear, there are all
22 of these rumors and falsehoods that have been reported,
23 completely irresponsibly. There was a story that was out
24 that while Sheena was giving birth, that I was with another
25 woman and slapped her.
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1 Q. When did this begin?
2 A. You know, David, this started and ended years ago
3 and it was -- it all took place in 2015.
4 Q. That audio?recording would indicate that it was
5 March of 2015, is that approximately --
6 A. Yeah.
I Q. -- when it began?
a A. Approximately.
9 Q. Okay.

10 A. Again, for Sheena and I this is -- it's a private

11 matter that we wanna -- we wanna -- that we've dealt with

12 privately.

13 It was hard when we dealt with it, but with a lot

14 of help from family and friends and a lot of faith, we've

15 moved forward together and we?re stronger as a result.

16 Q. When did it end?

1? A. This all -- it ended in 2015.

18 Q. I mean, but if it started in March, when did it

19 end?

20 A. It ended in the -- in the fall of 2015.

21 0. Fall, okay. So there -- there was -- you had

22 more contact with her than that one audio-recording that

23 was released in March?

24 A. David, again, this is -- it's a private matter.

25 And what I would ask you, and everyone, is to respect the
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1 And it?s preposterous. We didn't even have a
2 child that year. And when we did have children, I was
3 there with Sheena in the delivery room.
4 These are outlandish, absolutely false stories,
5 and they're also hurtful. They're hurtful to Sheena.
6 They're hurtful to our family.
7 when Sheena has friends who call her and Sheena
8 picks up the phone and they read these things that are
9 false, it is hurtful.

10 Q. Besides your former hairdresser, have you ever

11 had a romantic or sexual relationship with anyone else

12 while you were married?

13 A. No. I made the mistake with one woman, sir. I

14 made a mistake with one woman, and I?m deeply sorry for the

15 mistake that I made. I'm sorry to everyone involved and

16 everyone who has been affected.

17 QUESTIONS BY MS. BALENTINE AND ANSWERS BY GOVERNOR

18 GREITENS:

19 Q. So you had created an exploratory committee to

20 run for office in early 2015, then you embarked on this

21 extramarital affair at the same time that you?re making

22 preparation to run for office, but that seems like a pretty

23 risky move politically, What were you thinking?

24 A. You know -- you know, Summer, this was -- as I

25 said, this was a private matter that Sheena and I dealt
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withdealt with it privately. And 1 QUESTIONS BY MR. LIED AND ANSWERS BY GOVERNOR GREITENS

2 it ended years ago before I was ever governor, and we're 2 Q. Have you talked with or been subpoenaed by the

3 moving forward. 3 St. bouis Circuit Attorney's Office --

4 We're going to continue. We're staying strong as 4 A. No.

5 a family. We staying strong as a team and continue to 5 Q. in relation to this affair?

6 serve the people of Missouri. 6 A. No. I have not been contacted by anyone at the

7 0- Some voters would say that a marriage vow is the 7 Circuit Attorney's Office. I have not been contacted by

8 most important promise a person makes and argue it's even 8 anyone at the FBI.

9 more important than an oath to uphold the constitution. 9 ?y attorneys have never been contacted by anyone
10 What would you say to those voters who wonder 10 at the FBI on this or any other matterwhat this affair says about your character and integrity? ll conduct, there's nothing to investigate.

12 A. Yeah, what I?d say is that I made a mistake. I 12 Q. Are you familiar with this Eli Karabell person
13 made a personal mistake in my marriage years ago. 13 who says he was a volunteer on your transition and says
14 And I'm incredibly grateful to Sheena for her 14 that he was interviewed by the FBI in November?

15 forgiveness and her love. And I?m grateful to everyone 15 A. I do not know him. I know a number of members of
16 who's provided love and compassion and support to this 16 the staff do.

1? whole process. 17 Q. I know you made various calls to lawmakers; did
18 And that is one point that's important I want to 18 you call each and every one of them?

19 make, is that amidst the storm of negativity and craziness 19 A. We called almost all of them.

20 and falsehoods, Sheena and I, in the center of that storm, 20 Q. Both Republican and Democrat?

21 felt a tremendous amount of love and compassion. 21 A. Republicans and Democrats, Senate and House.

22 And I am going to work every day to be the 22 It's really important for us to work together, and one of
23 husband that Sheena deserves, the father that my boys 23 the things that I am so hopeful about is that, you know,
24 deserve, and to be a great governor for the people making sure that good things can come,
25 Missouri. 25 even from difficult situations.

 

 

 

 

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1 And we work with a lot of people here and talk 1 I wake up every morning and go to bed every night and ask
2 with a lot of people here, and are working with lot of 2 for God's strength and wisdom to serve the people of
3 people here who want to work with us to get things done. 3 Missouri.
4 Wanna work with us to get things done for the 13,000 kids 4 And that's what I'm going to do. That's what I
5 in Missouri's foster care. 5 did this morning. That's what I?m going to do tomorrow
6 They wanna work with us to get things done for 6 morning, and that?s what I'm going to do the day after
7 law enforcement officers. They wanna work with us to get 7 that.
8 things done for military families and veterans. 3 We're a hundred percent focused on serving the
9 They wanna work with us to get things done to put 9 people of Missouri, and that's what we're going to continue
10 money back in the pockets of the people of Missouri. And 10 to do.
11 I'm really hopeful about the work that we can do together 11 Q. I know there is a rally that's going on outside
12 with Republicans, with Democrats, with people in the 12 starting at one o'clock to support Donald Trump, and most
13 legislature and with people all over the State of Missouri. 13 of the other statewide Republican officials are there; are
14 Q. And I know you reached out to lawmakers and a lot 14 you going to that?
15 of people 15 A. No.
16 A. Yeah. 16 Q. Why not?
1? Q. -- have you also talked with either Vice 1? A. You know, it was really important for us to
18 President Pence or Donald Trump about thiswork done for the people of
19 A. No. 19 Missouri.
20 Q. Okay. Anyone in their administration or national 20 I think you?ve seen we're back to work. You've
21 party leaders? 21 seen what we're doing last week. You've seen what we're
22 a. No. 22 doing what we're doing next week.
23 Q. Okay. How do you think this affects any future 23 Q. Your critics are suggesting that you're hiding
24 plans you might have for other offices? 24 from the public by not going to the Trump thing or not
25 A. You know, what we do every day, every day is that 25 holding your tax tour that you were going to do. Are you

 

 

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hiding? 1 to get things done for the people of the State of Missouri.
2 A. No. NO. The fact is, we've been talking -- we 2 QUESTIONS BY MR. LIEB AND ANSWERS BY GOVERNOR GREITENS:
3 put out the statement as soon as this came out. You?ve 3 O. The woman, the former hairdresser. has not come
4 seen other statements. We've reached out to people. 4 forward publicly. No one has been reporting her name out
5 And we are, we're going to continue to go out and 5 of respect for her, but have you or anyone associated with
6 engage with and be with the people of the State of 6 her with you, paid her 
7 Missouri. 1 A. No.
8 We'll continue to do we will do our tax tour. 8 Q. in exchange for her silence?
9 He'll do our statewide tour, and we're gonna get great 9 A. No.
10 things done. 2 10 0. Okay. Did she people have asked if you tried
11 QUESTIONS BY MS. BALENTINE AND ANSWERS BY GOVERNOR 11 to blackmail her, and you said absolutely not. Did she try
12 GREITENS: 12 to blackmail you on this?
13 Q. There are legislators who have questioned your 13 A. No.
14 ability to effectively lead and implement your agenda in 14 Q. Okay. Does -- has her ex-husband tried to
15 light of all of this. a 15 blackmail you on this?
16 I know you said that some have spoken with you 16 A. No.
11 and said they're interested in working with you to 11 Q. Okay. I want to go back to the small details
18 accomplish these things, but realistically, you know, how 5 18 there, and we've already addressed the violence and the
19 do you respond to some of those questions about your 19 slapping thing.
20 ability to implement these policies? 20 A. Right.
21 a. We're staying. We're moving forward. We've got 5 21 Q. When you acknowledged being unfaithful to your
22 a great team. We got a great team and we got a lot of 22 wife. are you saying you actually had sex with this woman?
23 people both here in Jefferson City and around the State of 23 A. Yeah. David, this is a private matter. Everyone
24 Missouri who want to get things done, and that's what we're 5 24 has asked for privacy, Sheena has, everyone involved. And
25 going to do. We're going to move forward and we're going 25 I would ask you to respect that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 Q. Okay. I?m just going through the list of -- 1 morning and go in and see Jacob, who is one and a half
2 A. Yes, sir. 2 years old, who sees me and starts bouncing in his crib.
3 O. things professionally. 3 And Joshua, who wants to wear his pajamas to
4 A. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. And I 4 preschool. And Sheena and I wake up every day knowing that
5 understand, and I appreciate that. 5 we've got an awesome family and fantastic boys.
6 Q. Have you talked with her since this all blew up 6 Today, this morning, she is on a preplanned
in the news? 1 vacation that we've had planned since last fall for the
8 A. No. 8 boys to spend time with their grandparents. And we were
9 Q. Okay. 9 not going to allow this to interrupt time for Sheena and
10 A. My understanding is that she's asked for privacy, 5 10 the boys and their grandparents.
11 and I respect that. i 11 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I want to jump in real
12 Q. One of the other -- speaking of the privacy sort 2 12 quick here. We?re at 15 minutes. If you have maybe one
13 of things, rumors have floated out there because I've seen 2 13 final question, we're happy to do that. and then we need to
14 it reported that Sheena is in Washington, I guess, with her 5 14 move on to the next one.
15 family which leads people to speculate that she left you. 15 QUESTIONS BY MS. BALENTINE AND ANSWERS BY GOVERNOR
16 Not the case? What -- 16 GREITENS:
11 A. It's another absolutely false and hurtful rumor. 17 Q. You had said that you've received love and
18 The fact is Sheena and I dealt with this privately years i 18 support as you've been reaching out on this?
19 ago, and we've also dealt with this together. 19 A. Yeah.
20 You know, we went into a meeting together the day 5 20 Q. I?m wondering how this might affect your
21 after this, and as we went in, people were so supportive, 21 relationship with lawmakers moving forward, especially in
22 so loving. They knew exactly what Sheena and I needed, and 22 the Senate where you've butted heads with lawmakers in the
23 they were there for us. And the days after we had 23 past and have been fairly critical of some lawmakers in the
24 beautiful mornings with our boys. 5 24 legislature?
25 One of the great joys for me is to wake up every I 25 A. Well, first let me say the love and support has
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1 been tremendous from people all over the stateknow you?ve written a whole book about
2 very grate?ul to friends, to family, of people who've 2 resilience, but --
3 reached out. 3 A. Yeah.
4 You know, this has been hard, and hard on our 4 Q. sort of puts it to a new personal test.
5 families. I went to see my parents, and they're reading of 5 A. Yeahthe most wonderful
6 the falsehoods, and they?re reading all of the rumors. And 6 moments for me and I want to say again, this has been
7 I walked into my house -- their househard, and I think people from the outside, they see all of
8 phone with my 95-year-old preschool teacher, who had called a the craziness and the negativity and the falsehoods and the
9 my mom to say I love you. I care about you. We care about 9 rumors.
10 Eric and your family, and we are here for you. 10 Inside there's been a tremendous amount of
11 We have had tremendous love and support from 11 support. And one of the nicest moments was when my buddy,
12 people all over the state. And we have, we've reached out 12 who I wrote those resilience letters to, called me.
13 to legislature -- members of the legislature, and they have 13 And he just said hang in there, Mr. G. He said
14 reached out to us. 14 we?re all rooting for you, talking to all the guys. We?re
15 And I'm very confident that together we can do 15 behind you. You changed my life. You had my back. I've
16 great work. I'm very confident that God has a way of 16 got yours.
1? bringing good from ditticulty. 17 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Thank you guys so much for
18 God has a way of helping people in the midst of 18 making the time to come in on a Saturday.
19 pain to emerge with wisdom. 19 GOVERNOR GREITENS: Yeahhelping you to move through 20 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: We appreciate it.
21 suffering and actually become stronger. 21 MS. EALENTINE: Yes. Thank you.
22 And I am very confident that working with members 22 GOVERNOR GRBITENS: Thank you, David. I
23 of the legislature, Republicans and Democrats, Senate and 23 appreciate you.
24 House and people all over the State of Missouri that we can 24 MR. LIEB: Yeah. Thank you, sir.
25 accomplish great things together. 25 (END OF AUDIO.)

 

 

 

 

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1 CHAIRMAN BARNES: The previous transcript was 1 dollars of the people of Missouri, making important
2 from an interview that took place on January 20th, 2018. 2 investments in Missouri's future. And also making the top
3 The next transcript is from a video posted on 3 choices that are necessary to make sure that we don't
4 YouTube of a press conference that Governor Greitens held 4 burden Missouri's children with them.
5 to discuss the state budget on January 22nd, 2018. 5 In our work we protect every dollar and every
6 It was posted to You Tube by the Columbia Daily 6 cent we can.
1 Tribune on January 22nd, 2018. 7 Just last week we announced we got rid of another
8 VIDEO STARTED WITH COURT REPORTER 80 cars and saved the people of Missouri another 2 million
9 TRANSCRIBING THE FOLLOWING.) 9 dollars.
10 The economy is growing. Missouri's businesses 10 We pay attention to every dollar and every cent,
11 are creating jobs. People are going back to work. 11 because dollars and cents matter. We pay attention to them
12 Missouri has the lowest unemployment rate it's had in 12 because we remember that every single dollar this
13 1? years. 13 government spends was earned by the hard work of Missouri
14 More manufacturing jobs are here in Missouri than 14 and is the people?s money.
15 there were a year ago, and we moved up nine places in the 15 You've all been given a summary of the budget.
16 rankings of the best states in the country. 16 The full budget is available online. We're happy to roll
17 Because our economy is getting better, our budget 11 out the budget today and take questions on the budget from
10 situation is stronger than it was a year ago. 18 the media today.
19 You'll remember when we came into office, there 19 We'll also be doing a Facebook live later this
20 were plans to spend over $600 million that we didn't have 20 week to answer questions about the budget from people all
21 in the budget. 21 over the State of Missouri.
22 So we faced a choice. We could raise taxes or 22 Our budget director, Dan Haug, will also be
23 cut spending. We did the hard work of cutting spending. 23 holding a press conference a little later to review the
24 The budget we're introducing today is a common 24 budget in detail.
25 sense conservative budget. We?re watching out for the tax 25 I want to walk through a few of the areas where

 

 

 

 

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1 we made some investments, and also be clear about some of 1 increased the funding that schools receive by almost

2 the tough choices we made. 2 200 million dollars.

3 Our budget increases funding for our (inaudible), 3 This year's budget has 87.5 million dollars more

4 and you?ll see increased funding for infrastructure, for 4 for schools than last year, and a total funding of 6.1

5 education, for programs to support our most vulnerable 5 billion dollars is a record investment in the State of

6 (inaudible). 6 Missouri for elementary and secondary education.

7 We're able to afford those investments by making 7 We're proud to make that commitment. We also

8 top decisions to balance our budget and protect taxpayers' 8 want to see that those dollars get to students and

9 dollars. 9 teachers.
10 Our government doesn?t create jobs, but it can 10 Teachers in Missouri are not getting the pay that
11 create the conditions of which businesses can grow and 11 they deserve, and that's why the 2019 budget increase is

12 prosper. 12 paid for teachers and state-funded schools.

13 That's why this budget includes an increase of 13 And we're sending more money than ever to our
14 162.8 million dollars to help build roads and repair roads 14 elementary, middle and high schools. We want to see that
15 and bridges. 15 our school districts follow our lead and increase teacher
16 We're also investing 25 million dollars to 16 pay.
17 establish a new jobs and infrastructure fund that will 17 Last year we introduced an initiative to bring
18 assist local communities. and build the infrastructure 18 high-speed broadband to rural public schools at no cost to
19 necessary to create jobs. 19 the school themselves, and we're continuing that investment
20 We?re also investing 7.6 million dollars to 20 of 6 million dollars this year.
21 improve our {inaudible}. This is an important investment. 21 We?ve also made some investments in programs to
22 It will help our farmers and other businesses to sell 22 support vulnerable children. We put in 5.3 million dollars
23 Missouri goods around the country and around the world. 23 in new funding, a new line item to help reduce the backlog
24 We're also investing in our future by supporting 24 of children in the foster care system who need legal
25 our teachers and students. Since we took office, we've 25 assistance so they can move to a safe, stable and loving

 

 

 

 

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1 home. 1 correctional system.

2 The budget also includes an increase of 3.3 2 We're making a number of critical investments,

3 million dollars in funding to care for children who have 3 including 3 million dollars in new funding to expand the

4 been abused or neglected and removed from their homes. 4 crime lab at the Missouri State Highway Patrol's General

5 There's also, in this budget, an increase of 5 Headquarters.

6 8.5 million dollars for the First Steps Program, which 6 We're also expanding our fight against the opioid
7 provides earlier intervention services for families with 7 epidemic. We've invested 4.7 million dollars in new

8 young children with disabilities and developmental illness. 8 funding for peer recovery coaches and hospital emergency

9 We've also included 8.4 million dollars in new 9 departments and faith and community recovery support

10 funding to provide instruction and therapy to young 10 services.
11 children with disabilities through the early childhood 11 And we've allocated three quarters of a million
12 special education program. 12 dollars in new funding to reduce opioid involved deaths in
13 We?re making investments in our veterans and 13 training, education and the distribution of opioid

14 public safety. We put 1.7 million dollars in the new 14 antagonists like Naloxone to first responders and law

15 funding to ensure that veterans' homes residents are 15 enforcement.
16 provided with the quality care that they deserve, and the 16 Now despite the fact that Missouri's economy is
17 quality care that their families expect. 17 growing and we're in a stronger position than we were last
18 Our budget increases pay for the highway patrol 18 year, what continues to be the greatest challenge in the

19 and for front-line corrections officers. It provides 19 budget is the explosion in federally mandated and other
28 needed safety and forensic investigation equipment, and it 20 health care spending.
21 increases funding for drug treatment homes. 21 When we came into office, spending on health care
22 We're including 3.6 million in new funding for 22 was at 18 billion 334 million dollars. And in this budget
23 adult, family and veterans' treatment core programs which 23 it's at over 11 billion 633 million dollars. That's a 1.3
24 provides effective treatment for substance use disorders 24 billion dollar increase in just two Years.
25 and opioid incarceration -- opioid incarceration in the 25 The State of Missouri spends more money on health

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care than we do on through 12 education, community
colleges, technical colleges, domestic violence shelters,
veterans programs, our judicial system, public safety and
our corrections system combined.

That massive spending increase on health care
means we have to tighten up in other areas of government
and spend less money.

We're making some important investments with this
budget. We're also having to make some hard choices.

There?s been a growth in administrative costs at
many of our universities. We want to thank university
leaders who work in partnership with us to identify
savings.

As just one example, President Choi and others
did a study with PricewaterhouseCoopers and identifying
$70 million dollars in savings.

The UN system is going to save up to 2 million
dollars just by getting rid of cars that they don't need.

We were happy to help them find those extra costs
and glad that they were eager to work with us to bring
those administrative costs down.

We appreciate their strong leadership, and we
also appreciate the important role that they play in moving
forward.

We've had to make tough choices this year, and

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Page 26
while we're increasing funding for elementary and secondary
education by 8? million dollars, higher education will see
a 7.7 percent reduction.

This wasn?t a choice we paid We have
been working with the universities to try to help them to
manage the budgets better.

Last year we had a choice. We could raise taxes
or cut spending. We face that choice again this year.

And, again, we are not raising taxes on the
people of Missouri. Instead, we told departments to
tighten their belts. We reduced the total number of state
employees and we made tough choices.

We did that because that's what the people of
Missouri sent us here to do, to look after their tax
dollars and build a common sense, conservative budget that
makes sense.

I'm proud of the work that our cabinet, our team
and others have done on this. We've already had good
meetings with House and Senate budget chairs, and I look
forward to working with members of the House and Senate to
get a balanced budget passed.

And I would be happy to take any questions.

REPORTER: Governor Greitens?

GOVERNOR GREITENS: Yes, sir.

REPORTER: Phillip Joens with the Jefferson City

 

 

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News Tribune.

GOVERNOR GREITENS: Yes, sir.

REPORTER: A 20l6 study showed that Missouri
state workers pay ranks last among state workers in the
50 states. Do you plan to call for or issue a proposal to
increase the pay of state workers?

GOVERNOR GREITENS: Yes, sir, I do. And what was
your name again, sir?

REPORTER: Phillip.

GOVERNOR GREITENS: Yeah, Phillip. Yeah, thank
you so much for your question, sir.

So first of all, one of the things that we?re
doing, Phillip, is in our budget for every state employee
who is making $50,000 or less, they will see an increase in
pay of 5650.

And we that?s going to happen when we get
civil service people on past this legislative session, and
we?re confident we can get that passed.

We've talked with a lot of members of the House
and the Senate so they will see that increase in pay soon.

What you'll also see, sir, is that we?re going to
invest an additional 61.2 million dollars in state employee
health care.

You'll see that we're fully funding the

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dollars.

And one of the other things that you'll see,
sir, is that there are targeted pay adjustments of 4.5
million dollars for specific jobs in the State of Missouri,
but we want to see those pay adjustments to make sure that
Missouri is offering a competitive wage for those
positions.

REPORTER: Thank you.

GOVERNOR GREITENS: You're very welcome, sir.

REPORTER: Last year there was a lot of debate
over in-home health care patients and the best way to try
to fund that. You vetoed the choice that came out of here.

What what would you what type of
(inaudible) would you like to see will be acceptable to
provide or restore that funding?

GOVERNOR GREITENS: Yeah, so -- so first of all,
I think well, the way we think about -- what was your
name again, sir?

REPORTER: Marshall (inaudible).

GOVERNOR GREITENS: Marshall, 50 one of the
things that we do is that we think about our health care
funding in the context -- or we think about that question
in the context of our overall health care fund.

So as I mentioned, when we came into office, we

were looking at 10.3 billion dollars in the health care

 

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1 budget. 1 address this for everyone here once. And to make sure that
2 We're now at over 11.6 billion dollars. It's an 2 we can do this so that we can move on and talk about the
3 increase of 1.3 billion dollars that we are putting into 3 budget and other important priorities that are before us.
4 health care funding just over the course of the last two 4 As I said before, I made a personal mistake years
5 years. 5 ago before I was elected, a personal mistake for which I
6 We look forward to continuing to work with 6 take full responsibility.
7 members of legislature and members of (inaudible) and any 7 And it's something that Sheena and I have dealt
proposals that they have to help us to -- to -- to slow 8 with years ago. We dealt with it by the book. We dealt
9 down and control the costs of what government is spending 9 with it openly. And it was hard, but with a loving family
10 on health care. 10 and a lot of prayer and tremendous support, we made it.
11 And the same time also work with them to make 11 And I am grateful, grateful to Sheena for her
12 sure that we're improving the quality of health care for 12 forgiveness and grateful to God for his forgiveness. I'm
13 people in the State of Missouri. 13 also grateful that the people around the State of Missouri,
14 So, again, when we think about this, we think 14 who at this time come to us with tremendous love and
15 about it in the context of the massive increase in health 15 compassion and prayer, who helped us through a very
16 care spending, which we need to which we need to 16 difficult time.
17 control. 17 And we also appreciate those who understand that
18 And I?m happy to work with anyone who has 18 this is a private issue, that Sheena and I dealt with years
19 proposals to make sure that we're taking care of the most 19 ago that's now been dragged into the public.
20 wonderful Missourians. 20 We look forward I look forward to work with
21 REPORTER: Governor, Lauren Trager with KMOV. 21 legislators in this building, people around the State of
22 You made some remarks recently, but there's one point we 22 Missouri in getting their priorities passed and making a
23 want to clarify: Did you take a picture of the woman in 23 difference for them.
24 question? 24 A lot of what's been put out is not true.
25 GOVERNOR GREITENS: Yeah, Lauren, so I'm happy to 25 There was no blackmail. There was no violence. There was

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1 no photograph for blackmail. There was no threat of using 1 We move forward with the knowledge every morning,
2 a photograph for blackmail. There was no threat of 2 and we wake up and we are blessed having a beautiful
3 violence. 3 family. And we have a wonderful mission in front of us of
4 The mistake that I made was that I was engaged in 4 protecting, serving and working with the people of
5 a consensual relationship and a mistake for which I am 5 Missouri.
6 deeply sorry. 6 REPORTER: Adriana Diaz of CBS News. Governor,
REPORTER: Governor, the specific question was 7 you say that the affair that you had was consensual. Now,
8 GOVERNOR GREITENS: And for Sheena and I 8 the woman?s now ex-husband asked her if she was quote,
9 REPORTER: -- was about the picture, was it 9 "half raped and blackmailed," and she said yes.
10 takenGOVERNOR GREITENS: For Sheena and I -- for 11 GOVERNOR GREITBNS: Ma'am --
12 Sheena and I that is where the story begins and ends. 12 REPORTER: -- account for the difference 
13 Everyone involved has asked for privacy. I'm 13 GOVERNOR GREITENS: Ma'am 
14 going to respect that privacy, and I would ask you to 14 REPORTER: in these two accounts?
15 respect that privacy. 15 GOVERNOR GREITENS: Ma'am, I have addressed
16 And to set the record straight, I've never been, 16 everything in the answer that I just gave you and in the
17 and my attorneys have never been contacted by law 17 interviews that we did over the weekend.
18 enforcement on this or any other matter. 18 We are now -- there's been a lot of people in the
19 Sheena and I are moving forward. We are blessed 19 State of Missouri who are counting on us. There?s 13,000
20 with beautiful children and a fantastic family. 20 kids in the Missouri foster care system. They need us to
21 Many of the rumors that have been put out are 21 get this work done, important work in this budget, the
22 false, and they have been hurtful, hurtful to Sheena, 22 important priorities that are before us.
23 hurtful to our family, hurtful to the people we love. 23 We have law enforcement officers, military
24 We are grateful, though, that we believe that the 24 families and veterans who are counting on us to get this
25 people of Missouri will see through this. 25 work done, and that's what we?re focuaed on today.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 REPORTER: Governor, the people of Missouri also I 1 REPORTER: That was the question on the budget.
2 need to trust you. The question isLawmakers here are saying they have lost faith in your
3 was blackmailed and you say she wasn?t? 3 ability to lead.
4 GOVERNOR GREITENS: I answered your question, and 4 GOVERNOR GREITENS: Sir --
5 we answered them in interviews throughout the weekend. 5 REPORTER: That does affect the budget and your
6 Does anyone have a question on the budget? 6 entire agenda going forward.
7 REPORTER: Governor, you're here to lay out a 7 GOVERNOR GREITENS: Sir, we answered those
8 budget for the future of Missouri. 8 questions this weekend. There's a lot of important work
9 GOVERNOR GREITENS: Yes, sir. 9 here, a lot of important work.
10 REPORTER: I've spoken with several lawmakers who 10 REPORTER: And you still think you're the person
11 question your ability to lead in light of this scandal. 11 to effectively get that done?
12 Why do you think you still can lead the State of Missouri? 12 GOVERNOR GREITENS: Sir, we've got a lot --
13 GOVERNOR GREITENS: We answered those questions. 13 again, we answered those questions this weekend. We
14 REPORTER: You have not answered that question. 14 answered them here.
15 Why are you now confident in your ability to lead the 15 We are moving forward. There's a lot of
16 state, sir? 16 important work that needs to be done, important work that
l? GOVERNOR GREITENS: Sir, we answered that 11 needs to be done that we talked about here.
18 question, and we answered them over the course of the 18 There's kids in our foster care system, there are
19 weekend. 19 families who are counting on us to get this right. There's
20 Do you have a question on the budget, sir? 20 important work that we need to do for public education, and
21 REPORTER: Do you have any plan to resign? 21 that?s why we made a record investment in public education.
22 GOVERNOR GREITENS: Sir, I've answered that 22 We're moving forward to get the people's business
23 question, and we answered them over the course of the 23 done. It's a wonderful opportunity and a blessing for us
24 weekend. 24 to do that. I
25 Do you have any questions on the budget, sir? 25 REPORTER: Governor 
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GOVERNOR GREITENS: Who has the next question on 1 Missourians. And we're going to be rolling out next week
2 the budget? 2 that plan in detail. And also we have a statewide tour
3 REPORTER: Governor Greitens 3 around the State of Missouri to talk about all of the
4 GOVERNOR GREITENS: Yes, sir. 4 details for that plan.
5 REPORTER: Jack Suntrup with the Post Dispatch. 5 We've also been in touch just very recently with
6 GOVERNOR GREITENS: Yes, sir. 6 Senator Wallingford, the Chairman of the Committee. We
7 REPORTER: Do you or your staff still use the 7 look forward to working him.
8 text deleting app Confide? 8 Our team?s been in touch with Senators Eigel and
9 GOVERNOR GREITENS: Jack, again, we're here to 9 Keeney {phonetic spelling}. I think that we have a
10 talk about the budget. We're here to talk about the 10 wonderful Opportunity to reduce taxes on the people of
11 budget. 2 11 Missouri and we're going to we're going to do so.
12 REPORTER: Well, I 12 We look forward to working and cooperating with
13 GOVERNOR GREITENS: Sir, so we?re here to talk 13 members of the Senate.
14 about the budget. We are cooperating fully with the 14 Yes, ma'am.
15 attorney general's inquiry. . 15 REPORTER: Yes. Governor, Kat Reed with 41
16 We have complete confidence in our policies and 15 Action News in Kansas City.
11 our procedures. And as I've said many times we follow the 1? GOVERNOR GREITENS: Yes, ma'am.
18 law. 13 REPORTER: When we spoke to some lawmakers today,
19 Any questions on the budget? 5 19 they mentioned that when I told them there was a four p.m.
20 REPORTER: Phillip Joens, do you support the tax 20 press conference today about the budget, they did not know
21 reform plan like Senator Eigel, just wondering? 5 21 these recommendations were coming out.
22 GOVERNOR GREITENS: You probably saw last week, 3 22 Can you talk to us a little bit about the contact
23 we rolled out our principles for tax reforms. And we're 23 you've had with lawmakers and your faith and the ability to
24 really excited about our tax reform plan. 2 24 work on this with them?
25 It's going to cut rates for 91 percent of 25 GOVERNOR GREITENS: Yeah. I'm very confident
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1 that we?re going to have a really cooperative, good 1 positions within Missouri, within Missouri government. And

2 relationship working on the budget. 2 some of those are people who are making more than 50,000

3 I In fact, not only did Dan Haug, our budget 3 dollars.

4 director, and our team meet with Chairman Fitzpatrick and 4 And then I'm sorry, ma'am. I think you had a

5 Chairman Brown last week, I?ve spoken to them multiple 5 first part to your question?

6 times including as recently as a couple of hours ago. 6 REPORTER: Ag Department, can you give us some

7 So we're really confident that we're going to be 1 highlights about that?

8 able to work for and with them to make sure that a lot of GOVERNOR GREITENS: So a couple of -- couple of

9 these important agenda items, again, get addressed in this 9 important points, one of the things that you will see in

10 budget. 10 our detailed budget outline is a lot of work that we're

11 Yes, ma'am. 11 doing to make sure that we're supporting farmer and
12 REPORTER: Alisa Nelson, Missourinet. 12 ranchers. Director Haug will go through all of the
13 GOVERNOR GREITENS: Yes, ma'am. 13 details in the budget for Ag specifically, but I?ll just

14 REPORTER: Can you talk a little bit about what 14 mention a couple of highlights.

15 your proposal includes for the Ag Department? 15 One of the things that we heard from a lot of

16 Also what happens with state worker pay for those 16 farmers and ranchers around the state is that they wanted
17 that make more than $50,000 a year? 1? to see increased investment in infrastructure to make sure
18 GOVERNOR GREITENS: Yes, ma'am. So, Alisa, the 18 that we could move goods to market.
19 focus, ma'am, of the raise for state employees is those 19 So a couple of specific things that we're doing
20 that are making $50,000 or less. 20 there. I mentioned the l62.3 million dollars that we are
21 The people who are making $50,000 or less, they 21 investing in infrastructure.
22 will see a $650-a-year increase in their pay, and, again, 22 In addition to that there's an additional seven
23 when we get this civil service reform passed. 23 plus million dollars that we are investing in (inaudible).
24 And our budget director, Dan Haug, when he does 24 Because of Missouri's position in the country and
25 his follow?up with you, can also talk in detail about 25 because of the fantastic farmers we have here, we believe

 

 

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Page 39 Page 40
1 that making these kinds of investments will help Missouri 1 increase in fuel tax?
2 farmers move their goods to market. 2 GOVERNOR GREITENS: So, Mike, when we when
3 i There are a couple of other infrastructure 3 we -: when we roll out our tax plan in detail next week,
4 investments at the county levels, partnerships with, which 4 sir, you'll see that this is a plan we're really proud of.
5 again, Director ?aug can talk you through in detail. 5 It is a bold plan. It's going to reduce taxes on
6 And the last thing I?ll mention just on the 6 97 percent of Missourians, and that's what we want to do.
1 infrastructure side is the 25 million dollar jobs in 7 We want to cut taxes for the people of Missouri.
8 infrastructure. a Our plan will not include an increase in the gas
9 So what we're doing with the jobs and 9 tax.
10 infrastructure fund is the State of Missouri is investing 10 REPORTER: Why not?
11 25 million dollars. 11 GOVERNOR GREITENS: Well, sir, right now we don't
12 And when we have counties or communities at the 12 want to raise taxes on the people of Missouri. What we
13 local level who have an opportunity for economic 13 want to do is lower taxes on working families throughout
14 development and they want to invest in infrastructure, when 14 Missouri. Again, we will be rolling out all the details
15 they put up a hundred dollars, the State of Missouri will 15 for that plan next year.
16 put up a hundred dollars and make those investments in 16 REPORTER: Governor, in an effort to move forward
1? infrastructure together so that we can help to bring jobs. 17 as you stand on other issues, will you agree to (inaudible)
10 So thOse are just some of the key things that 18 with every media outlet about this matter, and will you be
19 we're doing in Ag. 19 cooperating with the circuit attorney's office --
20 And what you'll see as well in the press release, 20 GOVERNOR GREITENS: Ma'am --
21 if you haven?t seen it already. is a lot of support from 21 REPORTER -- investigators?
22 the agricultural community around the state for making some 22 GOVERNMENT GREITENS: Ma'am, we've addressed
23 of these key investments. 23 those questions. I?ve addressed 
24 REPORTER: Governor, my name is Mike (inaudib1e} 24 REPORTER: With every media outlet and
25 from Kansas City. Will you support and campaign for an 25 {inaudible}.

 

 

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1 GOVERNOR GREITENS: Ma'am. we've addressed those 1 vulnerable children by almost 30 million dollars. These
2 questions here today. We addressed them in interviews this 2 are really important investments for us to make for the
3 past weekend, and I can tell you we are moving forward. 3 State of Missouri.
4 REPORTER: You declined to speak with KMOV. 4 But in any budget you also have to make tough
5 Would you agree to sit down with us? 5 choices. Now the good news is I really appreciate the
6 GOVERNOR GREITENS: Ma'am. we're moving forward. 6 cooperation that you have of a lot of leaders in higher
2 And we're moving forward because that's what the people of 1 education who have worked with us to identify cost savings.
8 Missouri (inaudible). 8 So as I mentioned earlier, PricewaterhouseCoopers
9 We're moving forward because we've got a lot of 9 sat down with President Choi and the University of Missouri
10 people around the State of Missouri who are counting on us 10 system. and they identified over 70 million dollars in
11 to get results for them. 11 savings just within the UM system.
12 And that's what Sheena and I are doing. That's 12 So we are fully confident that we can address
13 what our family is doing. That's what our team is doing. 13 administrative overhead, take that cost out while
14 We're moving forward. 14 continuing to do great work here in the State of Missouri.
15 REPORTER: Summer Balentine. The Associated 15 I'll also mention now -- I think it's
16 Press. 16 important -- there is an increase that we are diverging in
l? GOVERNOR GREITENS: Yes. 1? higher education. scholarships that we're putting in for
18 REPORTER: You're already getting some pushback 18 students.
19 from lawmakers over the cuts to higher education; why cut 19 I believe that the increase is somewhere on the
20 in that area? 20 order of 6.5 million dollars. And, again, Director Haug
21 GOVERNOR GREITENS: Yeah. So look, there are 21 will have all of those details about the increase in
22 tough choices that have to be made in the budget. As 22 scholarship funding for higher education.
23 you've seen, we're increasing funding for elementary and 23 REPORTER: David Lieb, AP.
24 secondary education by over 87 million dollars. 24 GOVERNOR GRBITENS: Yes. sir.
25 We are also increasing funding for programs for 25 REPORTER: Your sheet here says you are

 

 

 

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Page 43 Page 44
1 recommending 40 million dollars in cost containments to 1 I'll also ask -- you know, Director Haug can talk
2 Medicaid. What are you proposing to out? 2 you through in detail, for example, some of the increased
3 I GOVERNOR GREITENS: Yes. sir. So one of the 3 investments in Medicaid to make sure we are taking care of
4 things that we're doing with the Medicaid program is 4 the most vulnerable people in the State of Missouri.
5 exactly what you said. There's a number of places where we 5 I?ll ask Director Haug. for exampler to talk you
6 can contain costs. 6 through in detail what we're doing with the 65.8 million
7 And the Director Haug and Steve Corsi. the 7 dollar investment in the Department of Mental Health
8 Director of our Department of Social Services can talk you 8 to make sure that we're taking care of 1.399 individuals
9 through what we're thinking in terms of those specific cost 9 who have disabilities or are in need of additional
10 containment items. And I'll make sure they get you those 10 assistance.
11 details as we have them. 11 REPORTER: Does your budget proposal include any
12 But. again, Medicaid is the largest drawing cost 12 cuts in state worker positions?
13 for State of Missouri's budget, as I said from 10.3 billion 13 GOVERNOR GREITENS: We are -- we are reducing on
14 to 11.6 billion dollars. And we're confident that there 14 the state workforce, and we continue to do so. Right now
15 are a number of cost containment measures that we can put 15 the state workforce is the smallest that it's been in
16 in place. And unfortunately I don?t have those details 16 decades.
1? with me. 17 And. again, Director Haug can talk you through in
18 REPORTER: In general, would it be the people 18 detail where all of those positions are.
19 receiving? 19 Big picture for us, what's important for us to
2D GOVERNOR GREITENS: No. sir. In general, what 20 get done in this legislative session is to get civil
21 we're doing is we think that there are a number of ways for 21 service reform passed.
22 us to contain costs. deal with administrative overhead and 22 We want to-make sure that we can pay good workers
23 make sure that we're still providing services to most 23 more. And right now this system holds us back from doing
24 vulnerable Missourians. It?s really important for us to do 24 that.
25 that. 25 We want to be able to invest in and reward people

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Page 45 Page 46
1 who are doing good work. 1 Yes, sir?
2 We also want to make sure that we can move people 2 REPORTER: Mike (inaudible) again.
3 into jobs where they can do the best possible, best 3 GOVERNOR GREITENS: Yes, sir.
4 possible work for the people of the state. 4 REPORTER: Governor, with all due respect what a
5 REPORTER: Governor, yes or no, did you ever take 5 lot of people want to know is what were you thinking? You
6 her picture? 6 jeopardized your political career, your family. What were
1 GOVERNOR GREITENS: Sir, again, I just answered. 7 you thinking?
8 We answered them over the course of the weekend. and we are 8 GOVERNOR GREITENS: Mike, again, I appreciate
9 moving forward. 9 your question and others. As I said, I've addressed those
10 REPORTER: Governor, (inaudible) KMOV. Is there 10 questions here. We addressed them this weekend in multiple
11 a reason you?re not choosing to speak with everyone in a 11 interviews, and Sheena and I and our team are moving
12 public setting? 12 forward to serve the people of Missouri.
13 GOVERNOR GREITENS: Na?am, we are -- we have 13 Any other -- any other questions?
14 spoken to people in a public setting. We addressed these 14 REPORTER: With all due respect, Governor, you
15 questions in multiple interviews over the course of the 15 haven?t answered the photo questions.
16 weekend. 16 GOVERNOR GREITENS: Sir -- sir, I've answered
17 REPORTER: But with specific outlets? 1? your question. We answered them with multiple outlets this
18 GOVERNOR GREITENS: But, ma'am, we have addressed 18 weekend, and we're moving forward.
19 the specific outlets. 19 Any other questions on the budget?
20 REPORTER: Is there a reason you won't address it 20 REPORTER: Relating to the tax proposal you
21 with everyone? 21 outlined last week.
22 GOVERNOR GREITENS: Ma'am -- ma'am, we've 22 GOVERNOR GREITENS: Yes, sir.
23 addressed this question. We've addressed it. We've 23 REPORTER: The 2014 cuts are just now taking
24 addressed them over the course of the weekend. I've 24 effect?
25 answered your question and we're moving forward. 25 GOVERNOR GREITENS: Yes, sir.

 

 

 

 

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Page 47 Page 48
1 REPORTER: Why do you think the state already 1 Thanks for inviting us, Governor. I?m
2 needs another tax cut? 2 Christopher Ave from the Post Dispatch. It should be noted
3 GOVERNOR GREITENS: Yeah, so what's really 3 I think that when Governor Nikon, your predecessor, had
4 important to understand, especially as it relates to the 4 these gatherings he didn't have any knives out, like there
5 budget, is that this is a revenue neutral tax cut. 5 were no knives. So to your credit there are knives out
6 So it?s revenue neutral, and I?m really proud of 6 here.
7 the work that the team has done on this. I So let's just get this out of the way. In the
8 Again, I'd be happy to sit down with you and 8 matter of the affair, did you take a photograph of the
9 others to kind of talk to that in detail when we roll that 9 woman? That is a question that hasn't been clearly
10 proposal out next week and again do the statewide tour. 10 answered.
11 Thank you again so much for showing up. Director 11 GOVERNOR GREITENS: Actually, Christopher, we
12 Bang will be available to answer your detailed budget 12 have answered all of those questions.
13 questions. I appreciate everybody coming today. Thank you 13 REPORTER: So what is the answer to that one?
14 guys very much. 14 GOVERNOR GREITENS: We've answered them in
15 (END OF YOUTUBE VIDEO OF GOVERNOR GREITENS 15 multiple interviews with multiple people. We're ready --
16 BUDGET SPEECH.) 16 we're ready to move forward, which we have, we are, and we
1? CHAIRMAN BARNES: The next video is a YouTube 17 have.
18 video taken by the Columbia Daily Tribune again at a 18 I think what you?ll note, what?s exciting to see
19 session with the Missouri Press Association in the 19 is the way that people of Missouri are responding to our
20 Governor's mansion on or about February 8th, 2018. 20 agenda.
21 (YOUTUBE VIDEO PLAYING NOW.) 21 I think -- I think that you probably saw last
22 GOVERNOR GREITENS: This is a shy group. This is 22 week we did events around the state in Macon, Palmyra,
23 a really, really shy and tired group. 23 Jackson, Springfield, Joplin and Kansas City and had
24 (INAUDIELE). 24 hundreds of people who were coming out because they were
25 REPORTER: I appreciate that. 25 excited about the work that we?re doing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Page 49 Page 50
1 They're excited about the fact that we are i 1 questions about the business in front of the people of
2 working to cut taxes for the people of Missouri. 2 Missouri?
3 They are excited about the fact that we are 3 OF YOUTUBE VIDEO.)
4 making sure that we're building an economy where families 4 CHAIRMAN BARNES: Having gone through the videos
5 can prosper. 5 and the audio recordings of the statements made by Governor
6 They're excited about the fact that we're cutting 6 Greitens in January and early February of 2018 in public
7 regulations on the people of Missouri. And we're really settings. this will now conclude today's hearing of the
8 excited about that agenda, and we're going to continue to 8 Missouri House Special Investigative Committee On
9 work on, talk about and get that agenda passed because it's 9 Oversight.
10 the right thing to do for the people of Missouri. 10 (END OF 
11 REPORTER: One follow-up? 11
12 GOVERNOR GREITENS: Yeah. 12
13 REPORTER: Just one follow-up. Thank you. Have 13
14 you or any of your representatives been contacted by any 14
15 law enforcement or prosecutors in regards to the matter of 15
16 the affair? 15
17 GOVERNOR GREITENS: Again, we've answered all 17
18 those questions, and you know that the answer is no. You 18
19 know that the answer is no because you've seen that 19
20 question answered multiple times. 20
21 REPORTER: A week ago. 21
22 GOVERNOR GREITENS: Yeah. and you've seen that 22
23 answer -- that question answered multiple times. 23
24 REPORTER: Thank you. 24
25 GOVERNOR GREITENS: So does anyone have any 25
JEFFERSON CITY CAPITAL CITY COURT REPORTING THE LAKE AREA JEFFERSON CITY CAPITAL CITY COURT REPORTING THE LAKE AREA
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Page Shelly L. Stewart. Certified Court Reporter, within and
4 for the State of Missouri, do hereby certify that I was
5 personally present at the proceedings had in the
6 above-entitled cause at the time and place set forth in the
caption sheet hereof; that I then and there took down in
3 Stenotype the proceedings had and produced with
9 computer-aided transcription and that the foregoing is a
10 full, true and correct transcript of such Stenotype notes
11 so made at such time and place.
12
13 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand on this
14 7th day of April 2018.
15
16
17
18 SHELLY L. STEWART, CCR
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SPECIAL INVESTIGATIVE

COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT

Monday, April 9. 2013

State Capitol Building
201 w. Capitol Avenue
Jefferson City. Missouri

COMMITTEE MEMBERS:

Representative Jay Barnes. Chair

Representative Donald Phillips, Vice-Chair
Representative Gina Mitten. Ranking Minority Member
Representative Jeanie Lauer

Representative Kevin Austin

Representative Shawn Rhoads

Representative Tommie Pierson, Jr.

Also present:Eryan Scheiderer. Legal Analyst
Alex Curchin. Legislative Counsel to
Speaker of the House
Alixandra Hallen, Minority Counsel

REPORTED BY: Tracy Taylor

Tiger Court Reporting, LLC
111 East Broadway, Suite 310
Columbia, Missouri 65203

573.999.2662

 

 

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REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: By your vote of
seven present. none absent. we are all here.

What I wanted to do today was a couple
things. First, Alix Hallen took the report that we
went through Thursday and made a series of grammatical
edits and capitalizing Committee everywhere that it
was. I accepted all of those for which I deemed there
would be no objection whatsoever in this Committee, to
save us time.

I, perhaps to her dismay. rejected
changes that put ellipses in direct quotes from
witnesses, to leave as many witness quotes as we
could.

And then there are a couple things
remaining. That's the first thing I'd like to do --
let's write this down. All right? The second
thing -- create an order of business here -- is to
discuss the letter that we received from the First
Lady.

SECRETARY CURCHIN: Okay. Are we on --
probably rcdact this discussion if it's not going to
be part of the record.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Well, I'm going
to -- let?s keep the discussion in. I just want to

talk about the fact that we received a letter. And

 

 

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woo-ammoREPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Call to order
this meeting of the Special Investigative Committee on
Oversight. Mr. Secretary. please call the roll.

SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative

Barnes.
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Here.
SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative
Phillips.
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: Here.
SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative
Mitten.
REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Here.
SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative Lauer.
REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Here.
SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative
Austin.
REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Here.
SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative
Rhoads.

REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: Here.

SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative
Pierson. Jr.

REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON: Here.

SECRETARY CURCHIN: A11 hers and

accounted for.

 

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it's been publicly reported that we did receive a
letter and it's been publicly reported what the
general contents of that letter was.

The third item is that attorneys for
Governor Greitens filed a Motion to Compel this
morning in the case in the City of St. Louis, and I
want to briefly speak about that.

The fourth item is going over
correspondence between myself and, in a few cases.
others and the Governor's counsel. And what I'd like
to do is mark those as exhibits and enter them into
the record. There's been -- I don't know. I wouldn't
characterize them as leaks because they're their own
letters that have been released in the last four or
five days, but I think it's important that we give a
context to those letters, both of which were sent in
response to correspondence from me apprising them of
we expected to hear from them in some form or fashion.

The articles only talk about the response
and never set forth the correspondence that led to
them. And so I think it's clear -- it's good to have
a clear record as to why those responses were sent to
this Committee.

And then if there's does any -- before

we even start. does anyone else have anything to add

 

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to this list? And we can add it later as well. After
we get through these four, I'm open to adding
additional things.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Can I look at
your list?

REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Are we going to
talk about the time frame of the report?

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Okay.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Yeah, I think my
questions all come down to --

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: I'll add that as
five.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: process.
timing.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: All right. So
first thing's first. I'm just going to scroll down
until we meet our first --

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Okay. Can I add.
like, next steps?

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Sure.

REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Is it the --

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Given the
temperature. permission granted to remove jackets.

REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: IS it the intent

 

 

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REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: Right.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: There's a common
interpretation of the phrase. ?Did you feel like your
privacy was invaded?" And then there's the technical,
legal interpretation of the phrase in the statute.
And I want to make clear that we're speaking to --
that was a common interpretation. We didn't ask her
for a legal conclusion there.

Is everyone in agreement to adding that
to the footnote?

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Good.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Okay. I think
this is a good suggestion from Alix. which is to break
these paragraphs up. The first -- first of all.
because it's a really long paragraph. But the first
paragraph talks about whether she consented; and then
the new second paragraph talks about the conflicting
testimony at that particular time. And I'll give you
guys time to read.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Oh, right. Then
it just re-numbers. I got it. So that was just one
monumentally long -- makes sense.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Yes. And I think
where the breakdown makes sense is where we say.

"Later. witness 1 presented conflicting testimony as

 

 

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review this report and complete it at this
sitting. or will we have an opportunity to go back and
look at it individually again?

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: I think it's to
do this. look at it individually and sign tomorrow.

REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Okay.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Again, because
I -- you know, we want to go through this one more
time and have an opportunity to review.

So let me go down -- okay. So Footnote 3
is and we'll cover this in a minute -- the
correspondence with Greitens' counsel. They are not
yet marked as exhibits and they're going to be marked
as exhibits. so that's just a placeholder for that.

Also want to note that after we get to a
document today. Alex or Alix and Alexes should go
through and check that all of the citations to the
record are accurate. I think they're pretty close.
but we want them to be entirely accurate.

Okay. So the first change -- and this is
something that I made. Footnote 32. paragraph 30.
Representative Phillips asked if she felt like her
privacy was invaded. she answered yes. And I want to
add something to the footnote that you did not go

through the elements of the crime.

 

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to whether she was physically afraid at that
particular moment.?

REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON: SO those were
two different times during the questioning?

REPRESENTATIVES BARNES: Two different
times during the questioning. And I believe what
happened here is Representative Mitten asked a series
of questions and then when we came back arOund. I
asked a series of clarifying questions. And -- and
she testified that she was definitely in fear for her
physical self at one point. And then another time she
said -- when asked, "Did you feel afraid to leave??
She answered. "No, not at this point."

Now. there's some ambiguity and, you
know, hindsight is always 20/20. The follow-up
question should have been. what did you mean what
do you mean by "not at this point"? But we didn't ask
that -- I didn't ask that follow-up question in the
moment.

And so it could be that she could have
reconciled those two statements. She could have said
when she said "not at this point." she was speaking
about something different than what she said to you.
But we have the testimony we have at this point and I

think it's important to put both of those in there.

 

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momma-umwould be it would be a little bit misleading
to not include both of those statements in there.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTENget it. Yep. fine.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Further
discussion? Everybody fine with this?

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Good.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: IS anybody not
fine with it?

Okay. I'm going to --

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Accept. accept.
Not reject.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Fine. You guys
win on your -- okay. Accept. accept. accept. delete
comment. no. accept. Okay. Now. watch this magic.
Okay. Alix?

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: We will fix this.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Yeah. Somebody's
going to have to fix this.'

MS. HALLEN: Yeah. we'll fix it. Stuff
is going to get messed up with all the footnote --
when we have to make footnote changes.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: There. You're
good.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: But it's not --

 

 

 

 

 

 

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REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Okay.

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: We better
schedule meetings every day because you never know
what's going to come up.

SECRETARY CURCHIN: We have one scheduled
for Wednesday as well.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Yeah. I think at
this point in time. following your advice.
Representative Mitten. we are just going to notice up
for every day: and if we have to cancel. we have to
cancel. But that's the -- better safe that we've got
something noticed up if we need to meet than to be
scrambling for notice.

Okay. Come on.

REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: I know we'll
talk about this. Jay. but what are going to be our
marching orders for the press? Because they're going
to interview everybody that they possibly can
concerning this topic.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Let me add that
to the list.

REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: Okay.

REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: I'm already
getting requests for appointments.

REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: It won't just

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REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: not
formatted -- okay. Yeah. we'll fix that. That is not
a Committee Chair's --

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: I cannot be
trusted with that format fix.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: -- duty. You
cannot be trusted with a format fix. Yeah.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Okay. Paragraph
68. So a?ter everyone left Thursday. we had the court
reporter stick around and make a transcript of those
statements that were on YouTube -- or two of them were
on YouTuhe. one of them was on Soundcloud. And so the
rep-- what Alix did is took the words straight from
the transcript and changed the citations so that they
cite to the transcript.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: And we're waiting
for those transcripts.

MS. HALLEN: We have them.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Oh. we have them?
Okay.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Let me fix this
stuff. Accept. accept. accept. accept. accept.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Are we meeting
tomorrow?

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: At noon.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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be us. It will be everybody.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Sorry. guys. I
want to make sure though that everybody got a chance
to look at this. I think that this is it. Okay.

Come on.

Okay. I'm going to accept this deal in
the footnotes and then I'm going to accept these as --
let me back up. I'm going to reject this first one
because I want to put the publicly-available link in
there.

MS. HALLEN: Oh. yeah. That's fine.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Does everyone
agree to that?

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Uh-huh.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: See AP interview
with --

REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: In most sources
when you reference God. the is capitalized in "His
forgiveness."

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Where did you see
that?

REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Last line. first
word.

REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: I'm grateful to

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Sheena for her forgiveness. grateful to God for His
forgiveness. I think it's pretty common to capitalize
the in ?His."

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Good catch. I'm
going to delete the mark of the video. This would
be --

MS. HALLEN: You can just reject that
change.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Yes. Okay.
Accept. accept. accept, accept, accept, accept.

MS. HALLEN: Just go back. Hit --

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Reject. reject.

MS. HALLEN: And then just accept that
one.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: I don't want to
reject that change because we still want that. Right?
okay. There we go. All right. So file, save as.

okay. The next question, moving on to
Topic 2 -- take one and pass it down. I think
everyone received an e-mail this weekend from the
First Lady. Most of it relates to Witness 3. I don't
know that it -- not I don't know. I am 100 percent
confident it does not change any member of this
Committee's conclusions about witness 3. It adds to

our conclusions about Witness 3.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Without
objection, we will not include that e-mail in the
report. Seeing no objection. we will not include the
e-mail in the report.

Let's take a break for one second.

(Off the record.)

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: The next issue
is -- for today is the Motion to Compel that was filed
this morning. And. again. I believe everyone -- at
least my e-mail shows that everyone got a copy of
this. Can everyone put the letter in a stack here
that we?ll so it's no longer just floating around?

So the first thing is I'm going to move,
on the next item at issue. that we create exhibits for
all of the correspondence with Greitens? counsel.
This is also correspondence. It's a publicly-filed
document. So does everyone agree that this should be
an exhibit attached to the report?

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: I do.

REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: I do.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: I have not had a
chance to review it, but what is the status of the.
quote. gag order in that case? That's my only
concern .

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Well. this

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loos

This morning I sent an e-mail in response
to her and thanked her for her letter and asked if she
sent this intending it to be made a part of the public
record. My intent is if she says yes. we will include
this further redacted copy. If she says no. then we
will not include it as part of the record.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Hasn't she
responded?

REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: Uh-huh.

REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: I received e-mail
from her at one o'clock.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Yes. Saying no.
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: She said no.
REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Correct.
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Is everyone in
unanimous agreement that we will not include this I
move then that we do not include this letter in our
report. Again. I think it solidifies feelings that
members of this Committee already had.

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: I just read her
response, the one o'clock response. Yeah. I'm for not
including it.

REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Agreed.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: I would --

SECRETARY CURCHIN: Without objection.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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isn't --

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: I haven't looked
on Case.net. for instance. so I just don't know.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: This is a
publicly-filed document.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: So it's a
pleading available on Case.net?

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: It's a pleading
available on Case.net. It was sent to us. And we are
under no obligation to follow the nondisclosure order
in the Circuit Court case.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Well. I guess one
could -- would assume that it's not part -- subject to
the gag order because it came from one of the
attorneys involved now that I think that through.
but 

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Well. from my
perspective. we are not a party to that case, we are
not subject to the nondisclosure order. And I don't
think there's a constitutional way we could ever be
subject to the nondisclosure order in that case.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: I guess my only
concern is that has any -- has a member of the
Committee -- because I have not -- gone through the
publicly-available pleadings in that matter to see

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tom-Jaimewhat other. if any -- there exists any other pleadings
filed that would also be pertinent to attach?

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Well. the reason
this is different is because this was sent to us by a
party to that litigation. This was sent to us by
Greitens' counsel.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: And that makes it
different because?

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Because it's a
communication from his counsel to this Committee in
particular.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Nell. but we just
made an opposite -- go ahead.

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: I haven't seen
anything that I thought was relevant. The only thing
that makes this relevant is a somewhat cite to her --
to Witness Number 1?s testimony.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Right.
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Yes. And so the
second question would be whether at this point in time
we would no-- or take this exhibit and footnote in our
report where there is some sort of reference to
testimony that's in the report right now.

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: And I guess my
thoughts are we do. Because I don't think the

 

 

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on?

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Page 3. second
paragraph under B. This just looks -- this is not
quoted. But in an event never previously disclosed.
she now admits. blah. blah. blah. We don't know what
the context of that was. We're just taking this at
face value without looking at a transcript. and I do
have a little heartburn about that.

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Well. if you look
on page 2. there certainly are quotes.

REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: Where they do
quote her though. it?s pretty much out of context. I
mean. they're framing it the way they want and then
they're quoting her. it looks like.

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: I mean. we're
adding as exhibits news reports. At least we have
somebody here under oath.

REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: Well. I'm not
opposed to entering it.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: I'm comfortable
with adding it as an exhibit to this.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Well. hang on a
second. First of all. to response to your cemment.
we're adding news reports that are direct questions

and answers that have been transcribed. This is

 

 

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defendant's attorneys are making up quotes. you know.
We don't have the actual transcript. which means maybe
we could reconcile her testimony. maybe we can't
because we don't have the transcripts.

Because as you knOw. when you cite lines
from a deposition. you're not -- certainly not going
to make up stuff from the deposition. but you're going
to cite stuff that's favorable to your client. I
mean. that's what I would -- that's what I do as an
attorney.

So -- but having said that. it's still
apparently sworn testimony from her that they quote.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: These are not --
these are not quotes.

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Yeah.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: They are -- no.
there's no citations.

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: I agree there's
no citations.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: The deposition
was taken Friday. They may not have the full
transcript yet.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Well. I?m looking
at the second paragraph under --

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: What page are you

 

 

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editorializing and this is just very different. in my
opinion. And I see the quotes on the second page.
And. frankly. those quotes comport with the testimony
that was given to this Committee.

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Well. let?s look.
I mean. there's a couple things brought up. One is
about did she ever see the phone. Second one. she's
referring to this dream. And then there's another
part where she's talking about --

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: A FaceTime --

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: So let's take
them one issue at a time. So the first issue.
Representative Austin. is on -- this is on page 2.
This is regarding the phone. seeing the phone.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Right.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: And I believe
that is consistent with her testimony before us.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: It is absolutely
consistent with her testimony before us.

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: What did she say.
just so we'll know?

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Sorry. I'm
making sure I've got the right quote.

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: No. that's fine.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Page 99. line 6

 

 

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through 9.

"Question: when you first went into the
house on 3/21/15. Eric had some clothes for you. Did
you ever see his phone at that point?

?Answer: Not at this -- at that point."

Line 10. "When was the first time you saw
his phone?

"Answer: I don't know. That's a good
question. I'm not sure."

Page 103. line 15, ?You testified you
never -- you have never seen the photograph he took of
you. Correct?

?Answer: Correct."

Then on line 23 she testifies that she
knew he had an iPhone.

And then the question on page 104. line 3
is. "And did he have an iPhone? Is that what you
said?

"Answer: He did.

"And that was what he had that day?

?Yes."

There's some ambiguity in that question
because she might have known that he had an iPhone
that day. but she's not testifying that he [sic] saw
it that day 

 

 

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saw it -- I mean. I don't -- I'm not for sure what
she's 

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: But -- I'm sorry.
Finish. I'll let you go ahead and finish.

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: No. 90 ahead.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: I'm going to have
to get a talking stick. if I'm not careful.

Look. here's the thing. This is not a
transcript. This is not sworn testimony. I believe
that every attorney in this room understands what we
do when we take testimony and we write a motion about
it.

And I don't have a problem to the extent
that this contains quoted testimony. although I would
still argue that we don't -- without the full
transcript. it's being taken out of context, which is
part of why this very Committee is producing all of
the transcripts. so that nothing can be taken out of
context by the general public. And that. I think. is
a part of our duty to the public.

To release this -- if you go to the next
page. this is not direct quotes. This is -- this
is -- we have no idea what that questioning looks
like.

And I'm sorry. but the Governor, as we

 

 

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moo-ermineREPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: She saw it.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: -- in front of
us.

"And you saw that in the basement?"

She says. would assume that would be
the only phone that he would have. That was the only
phone that I was aware of that he had in general at
that time.

"Question: And you don't recall one way
or the other whether you saw it that very day in the
basement?

?Answer: Right. I just know that I
heard and saw the flash."

And so actually it?s a good --
Representative Austin. I think these were your
questions. It was a good follow-up question to go
back to make sure that there was no ambiguity. She
says there. I think on line 16. right, she doesn't
recall one way or another whether she saw the phone
that very day in the basement. And I think that's
consistent with what's here on page 2 of the motion.

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Sort of; it?s
sort of not, in my mind. Because she's saying, I
don't know if it's because I'm remembering it or a

dream or I don't know if I felt I saw it happen. I

 

 

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spoke at great length on Thursday. made a personal
choice not to come and testify before this Committee.
That was the Governor's choice. We all understand
that. That doesn't mean that the Governor then gets
to say. But here's a motion my lawyers filed that may
or may not take testimony under oath out of context.
and that should be included in our report. I just --
that is not what this Committee is supposed to be
about.

REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: I see what you're
saying. but to go back to the other point. we're
taking testimony where he wasn't under oath at an
interview and 

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Those are direct
quotes.

REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: Doesn't matter.
He wasn't under oath, was he?

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Those are direct
quotes. If this had a list of direct quotes. I would
have a very different view of it. but this doesn't.

REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: we can take -- we
can take -- we don't want this, but when we got
somebody that's not under oath. we'll take that
public --

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: When you can see

 

 

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the questions and answers. those I guess, you know.
one could argue are statements against interest.
whatever. But I just this is -- this is not --
this is not direct quotes. Whether it's under oath or
not. it is not.

It is an attorney doing their -- they're
very good attorneys. I'm sure that they're doing a
very good job. I'm not trying to question that at
all. But that's what you do when you're a lawyer: you
make an argument. This is an attorney's argument, not
actual testimony or direct evidence.

REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: So as the
non-attorney in the room 

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: And there's more
than one.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Oh, there's more?

REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: On behalf of this
one anyways, so my question is, is if it was said in
the deposition. even though they didn't quote it.
would they have put it in here? Are you allowed to
put that in there and file it in a motion?

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: They'd be
treading on very dangerous ground because they know a
transcript is on the way. So my guess would be that

these were -- somebody was there taking copious notes

 

 

 

 

 

 

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REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: okay. Maybe I'm
going too far.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: You weren't
surprised as to what was said. at least on page 2 that
we're talking about right now. about her not
testifying about seeing the phone, because she told us
she didn't see the phone.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Let me put it
this way --

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Hold on. .And let
me -- hold on just a second.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: I?m sorry. I
thought you were done.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: And I want to go
back. I sent Mr. Dowd an e-mail on March 23rd, 2018
and the last paragraph of that e-mail said this: We
also discussed the possibility of reviewing discovery
from the criminal case pending in the City of
St. Louis. We are happy to review evidence from that
case and are supportive of a motion by either party to
make an exception to the current order against
disclosure to third parties.

However. in the event any such evidence
is provided. we will insist on having a complete set
of evidence. In other words, we will not accept

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of what was being said and that's how they put it in
there. And there's -- there's going to be a
transcript to follow. They're probably being produced
today.

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: As an officer of
the court, I would never misquote somebody in there.
But having said that, to address maybe what Gina's
saying, well, there are some direct questions. Now.
we don't get the question before and the answer
before. the question after and the question after --
or the answer after, but, you know, I?m not saying
they're those things are in context. I don't think
we can say it's taken out of context. We just don't
know.

But we do have some direct quotes. And
to me, if nothing else. it bothers what I find
bothersome. especially tor the line of credibility
because now we're maybe getting two different stories.
and maybe not. Maybe they can be reconciled and maybe
they can't. So now we have this coming -- this. you
know, eleventh-hour bombshell coming on. but yet it?s
there.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Hold on. I don?t
know that I would characterize anything in this motion

as a bombshell.

 

 

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cherry-picked evidence from either the Circuit
Attorney's office or your client.

Now, having said that and drawn that
line, I think that we still need to include the motion
in the documents of the Committee. It's already a
publicly-tiled document. We may also have a footnote
that we told defense counsel we support any motion to
release the evidence from that case, but it can't
be -- it shouldn't be cherry-picked evidence.

And it is obvious any lawyer is -- when
they file a motion -- maybe the words aren?t
cherry-picked. Right?

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Right.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: The words are
you're going to use the testimony that best fits your
client and attempt to 

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Minimize.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: -- minimize any
testimony that doesn't. So. of course, we don't have
that other testimony. But this is what we have from
them at this point. And I think it would be fair to
include this, if nothing else, as an exhibit to the
report. I

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: All that I can 

I could just restate what I've said before with the

 

 

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addition of the fact that I think that there's two
sort of money quotes right here. The first was
Representative Austin saying we don't know. And that
to me is indicative of we don't know enough to add
this to our report, which is a reflection upon this
Committee's work. And I.don't think that we -- I
think that we don't know is probably not a sufficient
basis.

The other thing is --

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Well, hold on.
When you say ?we don't know." you mean what else is in
that transcript?

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Right. Exactly.
We don't know. which falls into the comments that you
just made, Mr. Chair. which is that an attorney is
going to cherry?pick and they're going to minimize
what's not there.

So here's one of my questions is. so for
instance. if at One place this basically says that
witness 1 acknowledged the recordings made by her
ex-husband contained lies. okay. maybe there's another
place in the transcript where she says the exact
opposite. And those are facts that would not be
cherry-picked by one side to a criminal case.

I mean for all of these reasons. this --

 

 

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one way or the other whether you say it that very day
in the basement?

"Answer: Right. I just know that I
heard and saw the flash."

And in -- and then this motion is. ?You
can't say you saw it on his person -- being the
phone -- you candown in the
kitchen. take it from the kitchen or put it anywhere
in the basement?"

She says. "Yes. I cannot say." That's
what she -- I cannot -- I don't -- you don't recall
either way whether you saw it.

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: But on page 2. I
think we can infer that she's remembering she saw it.
but she doesn't know if she remembered it because she
actually saw dream. I mean.
she's saying something by this because I remember I
was -- through a dream actually
happened.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: If anything, I
think that that second paragraph -- so it says --
apparently recognizing the difficulty. which is --
it's a -- ignore the lawyering in the sentence and
start with the factual part of it.

"The Assistant Circuit Attorney later

 

 

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this pleading is a publicly-available record. I have
absolute faith and confidence that the members of the
press are going to take what they want out of this and
make sure that the public is made fully aware of its
contents. This Committee's role is not to take
cherry-picked pleadings filed by one party in a
criminal case. particularly in light of the very well
thought-out comments that you made. Mr. Chair, to the
Governor's counsel.

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Well. I mean, but
on the other hand. this Committee's also made a couple
of value judgments; one is the credibility of Witness
1. So if we sit there and say we don't even take this
into account. I don't think we're doing ourselves any
service by not taking it into account, saying. Well,
this may -- I mean. this may or may not affect that
value judgment. And in my mind. it might have -- it
might affect now that statement that we agreed upon
last Thursday.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: well, as it
relates to the phone -- seeing the phone. she
testified in front of us --

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: That's what she
testified to us. It's page 3.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: "You don't recall

 

 

 

 

 

 

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asks Witness 1. Did you see what you believed to be a
phone. she answered."

First of all, there's an ellipses.

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: There is.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: So what did she
say in the ellipses before they got to this?

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: I hear you.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: haven't talked
about it because I don't know if it's because I'm
remembering it through a dream or -- I'm not sure, but
yes. I feel like I saw it after that happened but I
haven't spoken about it because of that."

To me, what that answer says is I wasn't
sure whether I saw the phone itself or not so I
haven?t said that I saw the phone. Because the things
that I am stating are the things that I am confident
that I experienced. And the things that she says
she's not confident about experiencing are the things
that she's not stating.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: For the record.
only page 1 -- or page 2 has any quotes whatever. The
rest of it is just pure argument.

REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON: And even the
quote that was just stated by Mr. Chair has the
ellipses and a lot of l?its" with no direct mention of

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atom-amine

what it is and that's -- that's troublesome.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Representative
Laser?

REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Going back to
page 2 and under A. second paragraph, when they're
doing the questioning and she says in the third line,
haven't talked about it because I don't know.?' So
it's obviously not a fact. If you don't know, it's
not a fact. Right? And then she continues. feel
like I saw it." But that's not a fact if you feel
like it.

And then we go on to the next paragraph,
I'm sorry, the third line of the last paragraph that
her recollections may well be from a dream or vision.
not fact. And then we go on --

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: But that -- hold
on.

REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Okay.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: That is their
words.

REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: That?s their
words, right.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: And the only
quoted words were as to seeing the phone.

REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Right. I'm with

 

 

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of testimony that Witness 1 she was having a dream
or vision."

Now we're into a more finite, that she
was. And then, of course, it takes a big leap into
they may well extend. That's just editorializing.

So I'm agreeing with you. Mr. Chair, that
I think that the quotations are the key part and the
rest is what you're saying is -- without seeing all of
that. this all is superfluous, the rest of this stuff.
It's their opinion. it's their editorializing.

REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: Well. and I'll
interject this. We've interviewed one side of this
whole thing. Regardless of who said they couldn't
testify now or not. which doesn't -- which really --
pertaining to what has happened. we have interviewed
one person.

And even though that one person through a
recording may have said this again. through whatever.
it doesn't necessarily make it a fact. It may be you
believe what Witness 1 said. but we've yet to be able
to corroborate that into this person did this. other
than they've told this story once and then told it
again.

I think on this document obviously. you

know, Witness 1 is being quoted, but it's -- you know.

 

 

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that.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: So defense
counsel extrapolating from that statement about seeing
the phone --

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Right.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: -- to then try to
get at everything else --

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Color.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: is good
lawyering, but it doesn't tell us that that, in fact,
was said anywhere else --

REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Exactly.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: -- in the
deposition.

And my bet would be that if those words
were said. something similar to what is in that
paragraph, that we would have a direct quote instead
of words of lawyers.

REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Because then in
the last sentence, moving onto the next page, "It was
not until after" 

THE COURT REPORTER: I'm sorry? I didn?t
hear what you said.

REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: I'm sorry. The

last sentence on page 2. "It was not until after hours

 

 

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whatever the defense has done in producing their
document. I think we have to take it as the quotes
that are there. And like I believe Representative
Mitten said, you know. the press is going to do
whatever they want to do with it. It's kind of like
our report. You know --

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: If I could --

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Well, whoa, whoa,
whoa, whoa. There's a tremendous difference between
this motion and our report.

REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Uh-huh.

REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: No, I get that.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: And this idea --
there is a false narrative being played by Governor
Greitena' lawyers in this that somehow he cannot
testify. It happens every single day in this state,
in this country that there are parallel criminal and
civil or administrative proceedings going on.

It happens in every DWI case in the state
of Missouri. The Department of Revenue does not pause
license revocation proceedings for criminal trials to
happen. You can testify if you want in those, you
cannot testify if you don't want. you have the
Constitutional right to testify or not testify, and
this Committee respects that. But the idea that the

 

 

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Governor is unable to testify is very simply a false
narrative.

REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: I don't think I
said that. I said for whatever reason, he chose not
to testify. I mean, I think that there are other
means and areas that we could have went out and looked
to people, you know. I mean. I don't know if we want
to go down that road right now or not. But I think
there's some -- there's some left on the table. so to
speak, for what we could have done as a Committee.

REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: What would be
an example of that?

REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: We could have
interviewed the Interra (phonetic) folks on their
investigation or what they could have -- at least
tried to. That?s just a start. I mean. I'm just
looking at it from a criminal perspective of when I
would investigate a crime. If something touches
something else, you've got to go that route. You got
to go down that and you got to go here and you got to
go there.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: If I could just
remind the Committee briefly that this Committee had a
very long discussion as witnesses came to testify

about the fact that we wanted to hear from witnesses

 

 

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has to go out on the day it?s supposed to go out. It
needs to, without a doubt.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Okay. I just
wanted to make sure I understand.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Representative.
to the extent there is anything in this report that is
incOmplete, it is by the choice of Governor Greitens
and his lawyers.

REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: I don't -- I
don't think that?s right. I think there's more --

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: He is free to not
testify and he is free to testify.

REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: I'm not
addressing that. He can do whatever he wants to do.
If he don't want to testify, don't testify. But I
feel like we could have done more. And not trying
to -- not trying to belittle what we've done. I think
there's been a lot of work done, but I feel like
there's some left on the table still.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Let me ask this.
Let me go back to page 2. And that is -- so I pulled
up on the screen what we have in our current report
that relates to the testimony on page 2.

Paragraph 31 says, ?witness 1 testified

that she never saw an actual picture nor did she

 

 

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and not from their attorneys. We were very specific
about that and for, I believe. good reason at the time
and I don't believe that any of those reasons have
changed. so that sort of -- to address -- further
address the motion before us.

As to your comments. Representative, I
mean are you implying that we should hold off on
releasing any report until we --

REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: I never said
that.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Okay. No. I just
want to ask. You know, I want to make sure that I'm
understanding what you're saying.

REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: Here's the deal
with the report. If you don't put the report out on
time, then you're not doing what you said you were
going to do. Right?

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Okay.

REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: So you have to do
that. Regardless of what it does, you have to do
that. I feel like that that's what's in our House
Resolution. that's what we need to do. we need to
honor that.

I just wish we could have went a little

different way about it. I feel like that the report

 

 

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have direct quotes are either exactly accurate or

 

recall, quote. the first time she saw his phone."

what I would propose is either adding
directly in the body or in a footnote that a motion
from Greitens' counsel filed on this date asserted
that in a deposition. Witness 1 stated these things.
And also noting that that motion did not provide a
full transcript of those proceedings and so there very
well could be other relevant testimony that was left
out.

Also noting that unless somebody can find
another direct quote somewhere 

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Which I Cannot.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: -- which I
cannot, that I don't -- the other items are not words
of witnesses, they're words of lawyers. And so to the
extent that there are words of witnesses in here, I --
like Representative Austin said, I'm going to trust

that as officers of the court, those places where they

really close to it and the reason they're not accurate
is because they don't have a full transcript yet. And
so I think that it is -- we are capable of putting
them in this report.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: So you'd like to

make a footnote as to paragraph 31 just indicating

 

 

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that a motion was filed that -- I mean my attitude is
a motion was filed in the criminal case that says --
that basically comports with that.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: I think the
testimony is consistent.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Right. So iS
that what the footnote says?

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: I think just -- I
mean reference just her quotes where --

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Do we add a new
paragraph here?

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: We're not adding
a -- we're not going to --

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: I think it Should
be part of the footnote.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Footnote or new
paragraph?

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: New paragraph.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: This is I'm
sorry. I'm sorry.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Hold on. We are
going to have a footnote, Representative. that notes
that we are relying on their duty as officers of the
court to not make up these quotes. I think that we

can trust that the quotes themselves are accurate or

 

 

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REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: You candown. Right.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Okay. I want to
insert a footnote -- where are we? Okay.
REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: ws'11 have to
mark this as an exhibit? No, we can't mark this as --
never mind. Duh.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: The Committee
notes that if --

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: You can?t mark
what as an exhibit?

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Never mind.
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: So the question I
want to ask is we're only using the direct quotes and
that's consistent with the e-mail that we sent that
said -- well, first of all, it's not entirely
consistent with the e~mail because the e-mail said,
listen, we don't want cherry-picked evidence at all.

But I'm not -- I don't want to put
lawyer's words in the report if there's direct quotes.
We note that it's not consistent with that e-mail
saying we don't want cherry-picked evidence
and -- but that to the extent it quotes directly ?rom
the witness, we are relying upon the attorney's

obligation not to misrepresent the words.

 

 

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very close to it.
REPRESENTATIVE
read.
REPRESENTATIVE

date?

SECRETARY CURCHIN: It's the 9th.

REPRESENTATIVE

criminal case.

MS. HALLEN: 2011, holy moly.

REPRESENTATIVE

filed in the criminal case by Greitens. No, you file

in the criminal case by -- what are you modifying?

REPRESENTATIVE
Greitens' counsel.

REPRESENTATIVE

criminal case by Greitens? counsel.

REPRESENTATIVE

REPRESENTATIVE
read these?

REPRESENTATIVE

REPRESENTATIVE
You can't say you --

REPRESENTATIVE
finish.

REPRESENTATIVE

MITTEN: Type and I?ll

BARNES:

What's today's

MITTEN: Filed in the

MITTEN: And then a motion

BARNES: Filed by

MITTEN: No. Filed in the

BARNES: Fine.

MITTEN: Do you want me to
BARNES: I'll do it.
LAUER: The first line.

MITTEN: Yeah. let him

LAUBR: I'm sorry.

 

 

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REPRESENTATIVE
that this FaceTime stuff is
won't be --

REPRESENTATIVE
in the report.

REPRESENTATIVE
itself will be in there?

REPRESENTATIVE
motion itself is -- I guess
the motion. It's already a

REPRESENTATIVE

REPRESENTATIVE

REPRESENTATIVE

motion itself as an exhibit.

direct quotes in the report
REPRESENTATIVE
REPRESENTATIVE
okay. Here we go. Now I'm

these quotes in the absence

AUSTIN: So you're saying
not direct quotes so that

BARNES: That will not be

AUSTIN: But the motion

BARNES: Well, I think the

I'm fine with including

public document.

AUSTIN: Yeah.

MITTEN: Okay.

BARNES: We'll include the
We only include the

itself.

AUSTIN: All right.

BARNES: Committee 

drafting this. Includes

of a full transcript. It

does so in reliance on Greitens' counsel's

obligation --
REPRESENTATIVE

MITTEN: As an officer of

the court. As officers of the court. I guess.

Can we say. however, the Committee

declines to --

 

 

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REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Also notes that
March 23rd, 2013 --

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Are you quoting
your letter?

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: okay.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: How about only to
the extent it has been presented as direct testimony,
or no? I think I get where you're going. but I don't
know how to --

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: What I just want
to say is. listen. we don't have the transcript. And
I want to note -- I do want to note that even though
we said, listen. we're not going to do anything unless
we get the full report. we are going back on that to
the extent they're providing what purports to be a
direct quote and we are doing so out of an abundance
of fairness to Governor Greitens.

I mean the other thing is we told them
March 23rd. how many weeks ago is that? It's two -- a
little over two weeks ago that we would be supportive
of a motion to disclose all of this stuff to us. Has

such a motion ever been filed? The answer is no.

 

 

There's other stuff in the -- in the
deposition -- I'm confident there is something in that
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REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: That's right.
That's right.

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Just leave it.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: All right. So in
the footnote review. there's also going to be a review
for -- for a whatchamacallit -- review this for
grammar and spelling as well. We are on the fly here.
We are on the fly here and the type is really small.

Well. let me -- actually let me go back
and undo so that those are both marked for the review.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Okay. SO this is
a new -- this is going to be an exhibit and that?s the
only thing we're putting in the report.

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: But then the next
thing on the thing is you're going to say all
correspondence between you and the Governor's
attorneys.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Yes. Where's my
list? 50 Item 4 on the list is correspondence
regarding the governor's counsel. These letters do
not go to facts. Here is what I want in the public
record.

There has been leaked -- I'll call them
leaks. They have released both letters that they sent

 

 

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deposition that is not great for Governor Greitens,
but it's not their role in that case to point out the
things that aren't great. But we don't have that in
front of us either. And so to rely too heavily on
this motion of the two thing -- two or three questions
they picked out is not something that we should do.
Okay.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Still, I don't
think that we need that final sentence. We are
including these quotes only. you know. in the absence
of a full thing but they're direct quotes. I mean if
anything. you're just going to say. you know. these
excerpts are included in the report solely because
they're direct quotes or else we have to say that
we -- you know --

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: The other
question is I think this testimony is consistent with
what she already told us. And at the very least. it
is not inconsistent with what she told us.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: I would agree.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNESparagraph that says these particular
questions and answers are not inconsistent with --

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: No. I don't think

we need to editorialize.

 

 

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to this Committee. Both of those letters were sent in
response to e-mails that said. We have told your
client from the beginning that he has the right to
testify. It's time to tell us whether he's going to
avail himself of that opportunity or waive it. They
followed up with an e-mail that said no. we're not.

And then last Friday. after we voted
Thursday to release the report on Rednesday. I called
and left a message for Mr. Dowd that said. Hey. just
want to let you know we voted to release the report on
Wednesday. wanted to give your client one more
opportunity to testify Monday. Tuesday or Wednesday of
next week. You tell us the date and time and we will
accommodate his schedule.

In response to that. we got another
letter that was again sent to the media and just so
happened that the e-mail that was sent which
precipitated the letter. was not also shared at the
Same time.

And to the extent that Governor Greitens'
lawyers are sharing communications with this Committee
with the world. I think it's fair for this Committee
to. in response. share the communications that led to
those letters being sent to this Committee.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: To avoid

 

 

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REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: I agree with
that, but I think we need to take a time out because
don't you have a motion out there? Didn't you move --
didn't he move something?

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: I don't think
I I don't think I moved. Regarding what to do with
the Motion to Compel?

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: I think there was
a motion.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: If I so moved, I
now retract that motion.

And now --

REPRESENTATIVE MITTENthe. you know, assuming no objection. that the
correspondence is going to be in?

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Assuming no
objection. the correspondence will be attached as an
exhibit. Seeing no objection. the correspondence will
be attached as an exhibit.

And we discussed this, but I want to say
it on the record. Assuming no objection, we will add
this new paragraph 32 and attach the motion and the
letter, which is also correspondence --

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Right.

 

 

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tomorrow or Mond-n or Nednesday morning?

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Representative
makes a good point.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: At this point in
time I'm ready to close the door. I mean, on new stuff
for the report. Anything that's sent to us by the
Governor's counsel at this point in time, as we've
seen over the last week and a half. is going to be
made public anyway. And to throw something on us new
at the last minute, I think would be purely designed
as a way to delay release of the report rather than
substantive.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Can we take a
quick break?

(Off the record.)

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Back on the
record. back from break. Seeing -- the motion on the
floor is that we close the record to new facts at this
point in time. I shouldn't say -- not forever. but as
to its release on Wednesday. Is there any objection
to this plan?

REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: To this particular
report?

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: when are you

going to set that time? Is it tomorrow at noon?

 

 

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REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: -- as an exhibit.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Seeing no
objectio 

REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Do we have to
number the exhibit?

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Yes. We will
number them, we will number the correspondence as
well.

REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Okay.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: The next item.
Item Number 5, is the time frame of the report. And
Representative Mitten raised this as an issue. This
is not to be coy. I can't tell you the precise time
at which we're going to release it. My belief is it
will be Wednesday afternoon.

REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: I think that's a
good idea not to have a time because we may have
something that we -- something may happen that we
don't anticipate and then we say, Hey. we're supposed
to have it out at 2:15 and something's happened and --
so I think that's fair enough.

REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON: In regards to
that, are we open to receive further items up until we

release? Because what happens when we get a letter

 

 

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Because look. what happens if the Circuit Attorney
files a response?

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Files a response.

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: As I understand
it, this motion was filed Sunday?

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: It might have
been filed this morning. How about we say tomorrow at
1:00 

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: We go in at noon,
this Committee meeting. Right?

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Okay. Tomorrow
at noon. So tomorrow at noon is the shut-off time for
any new information that this Committee may receive
before the report.

And I just also want to note, it's going
to be very brief no matter who it comes from. And if
something comes from the Circuit Attorney's office
that likewise includes a bunch oi lawyer's words.
we're only going to include it to the extent it is the
witness's words themselves.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Agreed.
Absolutely.

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Goose/gander

rule.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Treated

 

 

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the exact same.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Mr. Chair, one
more question about that. Is this all just going to
get released electronically? Are we going to have
copies in the Speaker's office or actually the library
is where they should be. I don't know if that's for
the Committee to discuss or not.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: I believe it
should be electronic. We don't need to print a
thousand copies of a 400-page document. Or in the
alternative. we could print a bunch of copies of the
report itself and then release the transcripts and
stuff electronically.

REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: How do we go
about doing that?

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Doing what?

REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: Releasing this.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: You mean the
printing of it?

REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: No. Just -- is
someone going to have to call and request from you or
the clerk's office to get this report? How is this --

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Is it going on
the website?

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: This is all --

 

 

 

 

 

 

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investigative reporter.

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: So when is the
transcripts for like our Committee meetings going to
be --

MS. HELLER: I haven't gotten any. I can
contact Shelly.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Can you get us a
transcript by tomorrow?

(Off the record.)

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: And then
tomorrow's meeting we can publicize -- we can publish
the transcript --

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Whenever.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: -- Thursday or
Friday or whatever. It doesn't have to be -- people
don't -- people don't want to hear what we have to
say.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: A discussion
about website versus paper is maybe not as urgent.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Nobody is going
to be paying attention to our argument about paper or
website.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Okay. So the
next question was next steps. So what I would propose
is the two Alexes go through this, get footnotes

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ammo-wusDlREPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: This is for
tomorrow?

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: This is for
tomorrow. but it's also -- these are logistics
questions that are questions for the Chief Clerk and
the Clerk's office as to entering it into the record.

Because I think we need it enter it into
the day's journal. The report itself. They may not
want the transcripts to be in the journal itself. but
I think that in the past when there have been
committees of this general nature, the report itself
has been included in the journal.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Okay. So we can
talk to the Chief Clerk's office tonight then and find
out by tomorrow?

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Those logistics,
yeah.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Which makes
sense, but we should all have some understanding of
what that's going to he.

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Or they're all
going to be asking. Hey. where can I get those
reports.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Exactly.

REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: You're the

 

 

 

 

 

 

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right, get the transcripts of the hearings set up.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Right.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Bryan get the
exhibits set up and put into a PDF format and we meet
tomorrow at noon.

REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: when do we get a
copy of the report -- the revised report as amended?

MS. HALLEN: I'm planning on doing this
immediately after we're done right now. Well. at
least on my end.

SECRETARY CURCHIN: I will be up there as
soon as I can. 

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: So first thing
tomorrow morning or close of business tonight?

REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Tomorrow morning.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Tomorrow morning?
Nine o'clock? And by nine o'clock in Adam's office?

MS. HALLEN: I can do that.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: 9:00 I
should say. in Adam's office.

Okay. Further questions about next
steps?

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Well, my next
steps was also beyond just this reporthave any witnesses coming up? What are our 

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macaw-hutchhave some documents that need to be reviewed.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: We need to make a
plan for review of those documents.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Yeah.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: And there?s some
additional witnesses who have been identified.
Perhaps at the -- after we get done with this part, we
can talk -- we can put together --

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Have a broader
conversation?

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: an e-mail plan
at the least.

REPRESENTATIVE NITTEN: Nell. and listen.
Mr. Chair. again, I've expressed these concerns to
you. There's apparently a pretty voluminous number of
documents already. we're at what. April 9th today. I
know you don't need me to remind you that the clock is
ticking.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Your concerns are

very well taken. So yes. Your concerns are very well

taken.

REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Do you want these
returned?

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: No. Those we
can -- those get to go in your notebook.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: So I think every
member of the Committee should be very limited in
their public comments. And that?s my intent as well.

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Or as we have
been. say nothing. Because. I mean. it's not beyond
the realm of possibility that we'll find something or
want to supplement the first part of this report.

REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Since we're Still
under the Resolution.

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Yeah.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Well. it seems to
me that this report though is an accurate
representation of the evidence this Committee has
heard to date.

REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: And that it should
speak for itself.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: And that it
speaks for itself. I agree with you.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: There's certain
more or less procedural questions about the
Committee's operation that I want to be able to
answer, but not to go into depth.

MS. HALLEN: You're not bound by your
Resolution regarding procedure. You're only bound in
terms of witness and evidence.

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REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Further questions
about next steps?

Seeing none, the seventh item is media.
This Committee. and myself as the Chairman, is in no
position to try to introduce a gag order on any other
member of this Committee.

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: The body you
mean?

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: The body or
members of this Committee. Because I think the
question was how are we going to deal with media
requests because you know they're going to be swarming
all over us.

My intention very
limited in public comments.

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: I think that?s
right. If I can interject. I mean this Committee's
going to continue. So we're still under the
Resolution. Right?

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES:

REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN:

Yes, we are.
where we can only
talk amongst ourselves and Gail and Todd.

SECRETARY CURCHIN: You're not going to
want to issue any statements prejudging any further

action by the Committee, should that be necessary.

 

 

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REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: So you're fine
talking procedure.

MS. HALLEN: You could talk about it now
if you really want to.

REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: What's going to
happen is that there's going to be a bunch of people
that will get interviewed that don't have anything to
do with this Committee. They're going to start
throwing their speculation out there and giving their
theories on stuff. And it's going to seem very odd if
we have no statement whatsoever.

And the people that are mum on this
subject are the ones that served on the Committee and
everybody else is stepping up to the mic. I don't
think we need to be telling what we know, but I think
we need to tell -- we need to kind of have a blanket
statement from -- some guidelines within our body here
as to what we are going to say pertinent to what we've
found out.

SECRETARY CURCHIN: Say the Committee
voted to extend its authority on a date certain until
that time. We're operating as a Committee under
the -- I

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: I think your

broader point is --

 

 

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ownSECRETARY CURCHIN: -- Resolution.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: -- about this
report itself. And I think it's important 

REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: It is.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNESconduct a fact-finding investigation.
We did so. We think the facts that are included in
this report -- we're going to let them speak for
themselves at the present time. The Committee
continues in existence and will continue doing its
work.

REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: And they're
available.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: And they're
available with full transcripts, 400 pages. Have we
figured out what our page --

REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: It's like a tax
bill. Maybe we could 

REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: NO. no.

REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Sorry.

REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: Because they're
going to take our other members. our colleagues,
they're going to take them down a different road than
we want to go down. with their questioning and their

?what do you think" and speculation.

 

 

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that if we find out other information. then a
supplement report can go out?

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Depending --
yeah, depending on what the members of the Committee
view as to whether it should.

REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON: Okay.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Any further
discussion?

Seeing none, we will reconvene tomorrow
at noon o'clock in this hearing roOm. And that will
close today's hearing in the Special Committee 
Special Investigative Committee on Oversight.

(Meeting adjourned.1

 

 

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REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: And we can't
control --

REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: I know, but I'm
just saying.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Even if -- no
matter how hard we try. there is no hurting of these
cats in either caucus.

REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: Right. That's
why it's important that we have a -- just a fairly
consistent statement to give.

REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON: And we
bifurcated the report. So there is still opportunity,
from what I understand, that there could be
supplemental reporting done on what we will come out
with on Wednesday. Is that true since we have --

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Well, to the
extent that new facts and information some to light,
absolutely.

REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON: Okay.

REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: And we do have --
there will. no doubt. be a second report from this
Committee relating to all the work we did on other
topics.

REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON: Right. But the

other bit of information that's still what ongoing. in

 

 

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CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER

I. Tracy Thorpe Taylor. can No. 939, within the
State of Missouri, do hereby certify that the witness
whose testimony appears in the foregoing deposition
was duly sworn by me; that the testimony of said
witness was taken by me to the best of my ability and
thereafter reduced to typewriting under my direction;
that I am neither counsel for. related to. nor
employed by any of the parties to the action in which
this deposition was taken, and further. that I am not
a relative or employee of any attorney or counsel
employed by the parties thereto. nor financially or

otherwise interested in the outcome of the action.

J/Mda :3 Jag/5??

Tracy Thozgg Taylor. CCR 939

 

 

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