Case 5:14-cv-00102-XR Document 45-1 Filed 10/10/14 Page 1 of 23 WILLIAM MCMANUS EYES ONLY JANE DOE V. THE CITY OF SAN et al Page 1 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT T1 T'W'k'f ?T?mn'l'?m m?xr'n? EUR i??n WLDIJLIXJN UlDiI?iik/J. UIT i?zA?D SAN ANTONIO DIVISION JANE DOE, Plaintiff, vs. CA NO. THE CITY OF SAN WILLIAM MCMANUS, CHIEF OF THE SAN ANTONIO POLICE DEPARTMENT, Individually, and OFFICER JACK LEN NEAL, Individually and) in His Official Capacity, Defendant. ORAL AND VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF WILLIAM MCMANUS September 5, 2014 ORAL AND VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF WILLIAM MCMANUS, produced as a Witness at the instance of the Plaintiff and duly sworn, was taken in the above?styled and i numbered cause on the 5th day of September, 2014, from 9:11 a.m. to 11:56 before Tina C. Fuller, Certified Shorthand Reporter in and for the State of Texas, reported by computerized stenotype machine at the offices of Hoblit Ferguson, Darling, L.L.P., 300 Convent Street, . Suite 1450+ San Antonio, Texas, pursuant to the Rules of Civil Procedure and the provisions stated on the record or attached hereto. Hoffman Reporting Video Service Case 5:14-cv-00102-XR Document 45-1 Filed 10/10/14 Page 2 of 23 WILLIAM MCMANUS EYES ONLY JANE DOE v. THE CITY OF SAN et al Page 10 addition, the chief of police shall be in power to take disciplinary action and suspend indefinitely any other police employee for violation of these rules and regulations." Is that your understanding of those powers that are inherent in your department? A. Yes. Q. And I guess, for lack of a better term, the buck stops with you? A. Yes. Q. Regards to enforcing discipline, you have the ultimate say as to what disciplinary action will be taken against a specific officer? A. Yesany way compelled to take a recommendation from.the Chief's Advisory Board? A. No. Q. And if and you have, have you not, seen fit to disregard a recommendation advisory board and actually enforce whatever discipline you saw fit? A. Say that again. Q. In the past, have you ignored, disregarded, whatever word you would like to use, the findings of the you personally saw fit as the chief? A. You're you're 90 percent right. When I Hoffman Reporting Video Service . WILLIAM MCMANUS EYES ONLY JANE DOE V. THE CITY OF SAN et :31 Case 5:14-cv-00102-XR Document 45-1 Filed 10/10/14 Page 3 of 23 Page 11 disregard the board's recommendation, I take advisement from my staff. Q. Okay. A. And we discuss it, and the m- and the City attorney. And based on those discussions, that's what discipline is meted out. Q. Okay. A. Or w? let me change the word "discipline" to "corrective action.? Q. Okay. And that corrective action is inherent in your powers under the local government code that we've just discussed? A. Yes. Q. If we would go to I believe it?s Exhibit in your book, and it will be marked as Number 2 for the deposition. MR. RALLS: You did say right? MR. MALONEY: I did. Yeah, Mark, that's confusing. What I did, they instead of numerically, they w" they sillily sillily it's not a great word they used exhibit instead of numbers, so when I'm repeating myself for the exhibit book as exhibit books are are alphabeticalim The new "~_numbers are going be for the deposition. MR. RALLS: Okay. . . . m?\Case 5:14-cv-00102-XR Document 45-1 Filed 10/10/14 Page 4 of 23 WILLIAM MCMANUS CONFIDENTIAL-ATTORNEYS EYES ONLY JANE DOE V. THE CITY OF SAN et al Page 20 Do youdon?t. Q. If we go to Exhibit D, please. (Exhibit Number 4 marked) Q. If we go to Subsection under, "Police Legal Adviser," it states that, "The police legal adviser shall review disciplinary cases investigated by Internal Affairs prior to their submission to the Chief's Advisory Board." Do you know what that's referring to? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Can you explain that for us? A. It means that when ?w that when investi? when IA is investigating a case, the the attorney that's assigned to the Chief's office works with IA, with Internal Affairs, to make sure that the case is right before it goes to the Advisory Action Board. Q. All right. When you say, "Right," what do you mean? A. Make sure all the basis are covered, make sure everything is that needed to be investigated is investigated. Q. Okay. Is there one specific person that?s the A. There's one person. Well, actually, there's two. Hoffman Reporting Video Service .5 - Case 5:14-cv-00102-XR. Document 45-1 Filed 10/10/14 Page 5 of 23 NILLIAN MCMANUS EYES ONLY JANE OOE v. THE CITY OE OAN et al Page 21% 1 Q. Do you know who that is? i 2 A. Robert Reyna and Jim Cot (phonetic). i 3 Q. Okay. Under Section H, it states the i 4 heading is, "The Chief of Police." Subparagraph 1 i 5 states, "The Chief of Police shall review the Chief's i 6 Advisory Action Board and Chief's City Vehicle Accident i 7 Advisory Action Board recommendations for discipline and i 8 implement such actions as he deems appropriate in each 3 9 individual case." i 10 And, again, I just want to kind of get an i 11 understanding of that review process on on a sustained 12 finding by the board. After there is a sustained i 13 finding, does that find its way to you? 14 A. Yes. i 15 Q. All right. What happens after it comes to you? i 16 What read the investigative file, discuss it with 18 staff, and then there's a board or a a meeting held 19 with the responding officers. 20 Q. Okay. Which who would you consult with on i 21 your on your staff when you go to these? 22 A. My chief of staff, the division commander and 24 Q. Okay. And would you also talk to the officer i 25 individually? Hoffman Reporting Video Service ..- Case 5:14-cv-00102-XR WILLIAM MCMANUS EYES ONLY JANE DOE A. THE CITY OF SAN AATOALO, et al Page 22 A. Yes. 2 Q. And bring him_in? i 3 A. Yes. i 4 Q. And, again, at that time, has anybody reviewed 5 his entire file? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Okay. And who would have done that(Witness nods affirmatively.) 11 Q. So, in_other words, you would look at Jackie i 12 Neal's jacket or his personnel file and go through what's 13 in there? 14 A. Correct. 15 Q. And then what's in there, as we both know, 16 can does contain, also, any allegations that may have 17 been brought against him, correct? 18 A. I'm not sure if depending upon the 19 depending upon the final disposition of it, yes. If 20 it's if it's sustained or it's exonerated, it's in 21 there. I don't remember if mm unfound or not unfounded, 22 but if there are complaints where there are waivers .. 24 Q. And if they're deactivated? - I 25 A. Correct. Hoffman Reporting Video Service Case 5:14-cv-00102-XR Document 45-1 Filed 10/10/14 Page 7 of 23 WILLIAM MCMANUS EYES ONLY DOE V. THE CITY OF SAN at: al Page 23 Q. Right. But if there is a pattern, if there number of complaints and allegations regarding a specific type of conduct by that officer, is that something that you would want to know about? A. Define "a pattern." Q. Sure. Say within a fourw to five?month period two to three, four complaints. A. That information wouldn't necessarily be in there because there could be line complaints, say, but those types of complaints are Q. And I'll rephrase. Formal complaints. A. Okay. Those types of complaints are typically flagged in the IA system, the IA computer system. Q. All right. When you say "flag," what does that mean? A. That means they're that they will be the officer's name will pop up because there's number of complaints over a certain period of time. I don't know exactly what that time is. I think it's a year. Q. And what happens if they if he's flagged, what occurs? A. I believe that the officer is "w could possibly Q. How long has the Officer Concern Program been in effect? Case 5:14-cv-00102-XR Document 45-1 Filed 10/10/14 Page 8 of 23 WILLIAM MCMANUS EYES ONLY JANE v. THE CITY OF SAN et a1 Page 24 1 A. I don't know. 2 Q. Has it been there since you've been there? I 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Okay. And we'll go over that that program 5 here in a bit, but what's your understanding of the i 6 Officer Concern Program? What's its function? i 7 A. Its function is once an officer is identified 8 as possibly having a issue or a 9 committed a certain type of action or offense, then they 10 are eligible to be referred into the ~u into the Officer i 11 Concern Program. 2 12 Q. Okay. But what do they do? Okay. So you've i 13 got an officer in that program. What are they supposed 14 to do? Is there any ?w that's where I'm confused. 15 A. It can be any number of potential remedies. 16 They could be required to go to me if it's an alcohol 17 issue, they can be referred into an alcoholic program or 18 a program for alcoholism. They could be referred to the 19 If it's some type of issue that may be 20 caused by certain strains in an officer's home 21 relationship or whatever it may be, but they can be 22 referred to the to to get help for that. . 23 WrThey?could be referred to any just about anything se 24 Q. Okay. 25 A. for help. Hoffman Reporting Video Service WILLIAM MCMANUS CONFIDENTIALWATTORNEYS EYES ONLY JANE DOE O. THE CITY OF SAN at al Page 25: I Q. But in terms of is there any period of time I 2 that they would remain in that program? 3 A. They typically remain in the program for as i 4 long as a program_lasts or as long as a 5 determines that they should be in there. i 6 Q. Okay. If you?re referred to the Officer 5 7 Confer Concern Program, is a evaluation 3 8 mandatory? 9 A. No. I don't believe so. 5 10 Q. What about if a if there has been a finding a ll of insubordination against an officer, is he 5 l2 automatically sent to the Officer Concern ProgramAll right. Have you read the charter about 15 thatAbout the criteria? Okay. 18 Subsection 2 of on Exhibit 4, that "The i 19 Chief may implement at his discretion immediate 20 administrative or disciplinary action without the Chief?s 21 Advisory Action Board or the Chief's City Vehicle 22 Accident Advisory Action Board participation, and has ?23 ?ultimate discretion to decide whether discipline shall be - 24 implemented against a sworn member." And I think we 25 touched upon that earlier, and as I understand it, that Hoffman Reporting Video Service Case 5:14-cv-00102-XR Document 45-1 Filed 10/10/14 Page 10 of 23 WILLIAM MCMANUS CONFIDENTIAL-ATTORNEYS EYES ONLY JANE DOE V. THE CITY OF SAN et al Page 26 ybu seek the advice and counsel of those on your staff milk-223? before you implement that discipline, correct? A. Correct. Q. If we go to Exhibit in your book, which would be Exhibit 5 for the deposition, it talks again we?re in the disciplinary procedures. (Exhibit Number 5 marked) Q. If we look at Subsection under "Polygraph Uses," it says, "The department uses polygraph examine ?u examine w" examination results as follows: One, that the Chief's Advisory Action Board and the Police Chief review the complainant's polygraph examination results, and only the Chief of Police reviews the sworn member's polygraph examination." Are their ramifications for failing a polygraph examination? A. No. Q. All right. Is there no criteria that you are aware of that if a person is untruthful during a polygraph examination, that is something to be considered in their disciplinary in the potential discipline that will be effectuated upon them? . ?It's typically a tool that's used to further the investigation. It's not a final determinant in a disciplinary action or whether the officer did or Hoffman Reporting Video Service Case 5:14-cv-00102-XR Document 45-1 Filed 10/10/14 Page 11 of 23 WILLIAM MCMANUS EYES ONLY JANE OOE v. THE CITY OE SAN at al Page 28 1 Q.. (By Mr. Maloney) And it's Subsection .13. It 2 talks about the advisory board's procedures, and what I'm 3 really trying to get at with this, Chief, is trying to 4 understand what the advisory board, if you know, 5 considers when they are recommending an action be taken 6 or not taken against an officer. What are they actually 7 looking at, if you know? 8 A. I don't know. 9 Q. That's not something you've ever asked any of 10 your officers, asked them_what the advisory board does? 11 A. I know what they do. I just don't know what 12 each one of them is going through each one of them's 13 mind when they're trying to determine what what 14 recommendation to make. 15 Q. Yeah. Obviously, I'm not asking you to be 16 clairvoyant about what each one is thinking. What I'm 17 asking is do you know what documentation they may, 18 perhaps, review in order to render a determination? 19 A. Sure. They review the investigative file. 20 Q. Okay. And the investigative file needs to be 21 prepared by IA or the complaint itself? 22 A. There's a complaint filed. There's a written ..23 given by the complainant, and.that1s. 24 what the investigation is predicated upon. And then 25 within the within the investigative file are Hoffman Reporting Video Service Case 5:14-cv-00102-XR Document 45-1 Filed 10/10/14 Page 12 of 23 WILLIAM MCMANUS EYES ONLY JANE DOE v. THE CITY OF SAN et al Page 29 interviews, statements from people who may be involvedwitnesses, the responding officer, other officers. Q. Okay. Who who is what is the advisory board comprised of? Is it citizens and police officers? A. Yes. Q. All right. Do you know what the make?up of it in terms of the numbers? Yes. What is it? Seven and seven. Q. All right. And ultimately, there is there a chairperson who is a police officer? A. Yes. Q. And that person actually has the final say, do they not? A. No. Q. If there is let me rephrase. If there is a tie, does the chair have the final say? A. NO. They no. Q. Do they also get feedback from, say, the commanding officer of the individual subject to the discipline, about just his character, what kind of guy he A. No. Q. They're not supposed to consider if he's a good Hoffman Reporting Video Service - Case 5:14-cv-00102-XR Document 45-1 Filed 10/10/14 Page 13 of 23 WILLIAM EYES ONLY JANE DOE v. THE CITY OF SAN et al Page 30 1 guy, not supposed to consider, "Hey, he's got some 2 combinations. He's I've worked with him. He's a 3 stand~up guy, he?s solid"? Are they supposed to consider 4 that? 5 A. They could. I don't know if they're supposed 6 to. They could. 7 Q. All right. But that's in their purview to 8 consider that information? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Can they also consider any ?m any allegations 11 lodged against the individual, his past history? 12 A. I don't know. 13 MR. RALLS: Yeah. Yeah, I just want to 14 clarify, are you talking about in the in determining 15 whether or not the complaint is sustained or in in 16 determining the punishment? 17 MR. MALONEY: Sure. And I apologize. I'm 18 in the investigation aspect of it before discipline has 19 been rendered. 20 Q. (By Mr. Maloney) So making a determination as 21 to whether a complaint should be sustained, and I asked 22 what criteria can be considered by the board. And really 24 way _1 whether or not anecdotal evidence by a fellow 25 officer or a commanding officer can be considered by the Hoffman Reporting Video Service Case 5:14-cv-00102-XR Document 45-1 Filed 10/10/14 Page 14 of 23 WILLIAM MCMANUS CONFIDENTIALHATTORNEYS EYES ONLY JANE DOE v. THE CITY OF SAN et 31 Page 31 i 1 board regarding an individual. i 2 A. They can consider anything they want. I don't 3 know what what exactly their pattern is. There are 4 different boards at different times. 5 Q. Sure. I just did not know if there is any i 6 limitations as to, "Well, you're only supposed to i 7 consider the complaint in front of you and nothing else." i 8 Or can they say, "Well, let's see the whole file on this 2 9 guy and find out is there anything in here that may i 10 explain the action? Maybe he's got a pattern of being i 11 doing really good things. He may have a pattern of doing 2 12 some really bad things." That's what I'm trying to i 13 understand, is whether or not you have an understanding 2 14 of that. i 15 MR. RALLS: Again, that's to determine 16 MR. MALONEY: To determine 5 17 MR. RALLS: whether or not the i 18 complaint should be sustained or not? i 19 MR. MALONEY: To determine whether or not 20 the allegation should be sustained. i 21 A. I don't know. i 22 Q. (By Mr. Maloney) Okay. However, when you i n23m mastss?ly are going #9 discipline an cificer let me i 24 rephrase. 25 When you are reviewing the advisory Hoffman Reporting Video Service Case 5:14-cv-00102-XR Document 45-1 Filed 10/10/14 Page 15 of 23 WILLIAM MCMANUS CONFIDENTIALWATTORNEYS EYES ONLY JANE DOE v. THE CITY OF SEN et al Page 32 1 board's recommendation, you're not limited by anything in 2 the officer's history, are you, in terms of making a 3 determinationdown to page 11, Subparagraph 12, and 6 it talks about, "The board will discuss the case i 7 generally, using the following guidelines." Subsection 8 B, is "All dialogue shall be confined to the facts of the i 9 case and information presented as a result of the 10 Internal Affairs investigation of the testimony 11 provided." So it appears, though, they are supposed to 12 be limited to that which is in front of them, that 13 allegation, correct? 14 A. According to this, yes. 15 Q. And this is the manual, right? This is what 16 you're supposed to go on? i 17 A. Pardon? i 18 Q. You're supposed to go on the manual, right? 2 19 This is kind of the rule book, isn't it? 20 A. Yes. i 21 Q. Okay. Subsection is discussion regarding 22 respondent's character is not permitted, correct? 24 Q. "Discussion is directed toward the 25 determination of whether the action of the respondent Hoffman Reporting Video Service Case 5:14-cv-00102-XR Document 45-1 Filed 10/10/14 Page 16 of 23 WILLIAM MCMANUS EYES ONLY JANE DOE V. THE CITY OF SAN et Page 33 violates or does not violate an applicable standardHoffman Reporting Video Service .23Hmm correct? A. Correct. Q. So you're not supposed to at least the board is not supposed to discuss anything outside that complaint, which is presented to them, and that investigation, correct? A. Correct. Q. But you, as the Chief, though, have the discretion to consider all aspects of that person's character, their history and their background, correct? A. Yes. Q. I want to shift gears just a bit and talk a little bit about Jack Neal. Do you know when Mr. Neal approximately came on the police force? A. I believe he's got about 11 years on. Q. During those 11 years prior to the incident involving the Explorer, do you know whether or not there had been allegations lodged against Mr. Neal regarding a sexual impropriety with females in his custody? A. Yes. Q. All right. Did you consider those when you hewouldrecelve_ following the Explorer incident? A. No. . Case 5:14-cv-00102-XR Document 45-1 Filed 10/10/14 Page 17 of 23 WILLIAM MCMANUS EYES ONLY JANE DOE v. THE CITY OF SAN et al Page 45 1 particular officer is going to receive, is this 2 information I'll l'll limit it to formal 3 complaints does review of formal complaints play into 4 your decision as to what that discipline is going to be? 5 A. If the complaints were sustained, yes, 6 probably. 7 Q. Okay. 8 A. If complaints are unfounded or there's a waiver 9 signed, the credibility of the witnesses are a question, 10 then I don't put too much weight on that. 11 Q. Do you question the officer about it, though? 12 A. I may. 13 Q. I think we've gone over, actually, Exhibit G. 14 We can actually go to H. 15 Now, I guess, Chief, where we're at on 16 this is we're entering into the issue regarding the 17 Explorer incident, and how was this first brought to your 18 attention? 19 A. That the cadet or I'm sorry, the Explorer 20 had I don't know if she was actually an Explorer at 21 the time that 22 MR. RALLS: Chief, you're welcome to take 24 Q. Sure. 25 A. That the Explorer, who was in the applicant Hoffman Reporting Video Service Case 5:14-cv-00102-XR Document 45-1 Filed 10/10/14 Page 18 of 23 WILLIAM MCMANUS CONFIDENTIAL-ATTORNEYS EYES ONLY JANE DOE v. THE CITY OF SAN et al Page 46% 1 process for the department had had some issues with a 2 polygraph, and she acknowledged I think it came up 3 I don't know if it was came up untruthful think it actually said "countermeasures 6 used," something, and then "deception noted." I "w I 7 whatever terminology they use. 8 A. Okay. Anyway, it was brought to my attention 9 that there was some issues with polygraph and that she 10 acknowledged, when questioned about it, that she was 11 dating Jackie Neal. 12 Q. Okay. 13 A. Or had dated Jackie Neal. 14 Q. Okay. Do you know what what what 15 happened after that, after she notified do you know 16 who she notified? 17 A. I dOn't. 18 Q. Okay. Okay. What happened after this 19 notification occurred? Was a formal complaint lodged? 20 A. I don't know exactly what time the complaint 21 was lodged, but at some point thereafter, there was a 22 complaint, and that was investigated. 24 the Explorer program? 25 A. The Explorer program is an is a program that Hoffman Reporting Video Service Case 5:14-cv-00102-XR Document 45-1 Filed 10/10/14 Page 19 of 23 WIIJJAM MCMANUS EYES ONLY JANE DOE v. THE CITY OF SAN et al Page 47E 1 SAPD has to w" for young men and women between the ages 2 .of 14, I think and feel for 3 what law enforcement is like, what you know, whether 4 they would like to be possibly be a police officer 5 when they get older, when they're eligible, whether 6 that's a career that they might want to consider. 7 Q. Okay. What do the Explorers actually do? 8 A. They go through a lot of training on the 9 same training police officers go through. They go to 10 competitions. They attend meetings with their advisers, 11 and they go on ridewalongs. 12 Q. What is the role of a what is a police 13 adviser, as it relates to the Explorer program? 14 A. The adviser is the person who is in charge of 15 them. 16 Q. Okay. Meaning what, when you say "in charge"? 17 A. That's the person who will schedule the 18 meetings. That's the person they primarily report to. 19 Q. All right. Do they also advise offer 20 advice, counsel, mentoring role? 21 A. They could. 22 Q. Okay. That's certainly part of their duties, 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. And, obviously, when parents entrust their Hoffman Reporting m_Video Service Case 5:14-cv-00102-XR Document 45-1 Filed 10/10/14 Page 20 of 23 NONENOE EYES ONLY JANE DOE v. THE CITY OE SAN et al Page 48 1 children to the Explorer program, they expect police 2 officers to behavior appropriately with their children? 3 A. Makes sense, but I can't say what they expect 4 or don't expect. 5 Q. Well, would that make sense? 6 A. It would make sense. 7 Q. That would make sense, that if I'm going to 8 trust my high school daughter to work in the Explorer 9 program, it kind of makes common sense that that police 10 adviser is going to treat her with respect and decency 11 and courtesy, correct? 12 A. I'm sorry. I'm_distracted. Say it again, 13 please. 14 Q. If I am_a parent, and 1 am entrusting my child 15 to go into the Explorer program, I would certainly have 16 the right to expect that child is going to be treated 17 with courtesy, respect and decency, correct? 18 A. Correct. 19 Q. And it would be it would be a complete 20 violation of that trust, would it not, if a young girl in 21 high school is having sex with her adviser. Would you 22 agree with that? 24 objection as to overly broad and vague and misleading. 25 MR. MALONEY: What's misleading about it? Hoffman Reporting Video Service Case 5:14-cv-00102-XR Document 45-1 Filed 10/10/14 Page 21 of 23 WILLIAM MCMANUS CONFIDENTIAL-ATTORNEYS EYES ONLY JANE DOE v. THE CITY OF SAN et al Page 49; 1 MR. RALLS: Well, it's calculated to 2 indicate that the that the girl, because she was in 3 it seems to me because she was in high school, that 4 she may have been a minor, when, in fact, she was almost 5 19 years old, but 6 Q. She's a high school student. That's all I'm 7 saying. And I'm_just simply saying, Chief, Jackie Neal 8 was this young lady's adviser, correct? 9 A. I don't know what his exact w" I know he's a 10 safety officer. I don't know if he was her adviser or 11 not. 12 Q. I'll represent to you the record and we'll 13 go through it the record. He was her personal 14 adviser. Okay? 15 A. Okay. 16 Q. And being a personal adviser means he had 17 contact with her on, if not a daily basis, at least quite 18 a bit, correct? 19 A. Correct. 20 Q. And he certainly he is certainly in a 21 mentoring role to try to encourage her, or at least 22 expose her to what the police department is about, 24 A. Correct. 25 Q. And you would say he's probably not supposed to Hoffman Reporting Video Service Case 5:14-cv-00102-XR Document 45-1 Filed 10/10/14 Page 22 of 23 WILLIAM MCMANUS CONFIDENTIAL-ATTORNEYS EYES ONLY JANE DOE: v. THE CITY OF SAN et al Page 50 1 be inviting her over to his apartment and hang out by the I 2 pool, right? That would be considered kind of a no?no, 3 right? 4 A. Sure. 5 Q. And he certainly wouldn't be inviting her over 6 to hang out at night in his apartment, correct? 7 A. Well, I don't know exactly what he did or 8 didn't do with her, as far as inviting her out and that 9 sort of thing. 10 Q. It's in her statement. 11 A. Okay. Well, I don't I don't recall her 12 statement. I 13 Q. Okay. Maybe I'll represent to you invited 14 her to come over to his apartment at night. 15 A. Right. 16 Q. Ain't supposed to happen? 17 A. Right. 18 Q. And he certainly isn't supposed to be having 19 sex with a high school student. 20 MR. RALLS: Objection. Again, vague and 21 misleading. 22 Q. I mean, I guess I guess that's where, Chief, 24 disconnect on this thing. Okay? I mean, this is where I 25 just and I'm not trying to be facetious. It's way too Hoffman Reporting Video Service Case 5:14-cv-00102-XR Document 45-1 Filed 10/10/14 Page 23 of 23 Hoffman Reporting Video Service NILLIEN NONENOO EYES ONLY JANE DOE v. THE CITY OF SAN et al Page 51 i 1 serious of a matter, but I'm.just trying to have this 1 2 huge disconnect, man, about she was a senior at Reagan 3 High School. Your officer is carrying on an affair with 4 her while she is a high school student he is mentoring, 5 and what I don't understand is why is there not this big, 6 old bright line saying, "Huhmuh. You do this, you're 7 gone." 8 MR. RALLS: Objection, sidebar remarks by 9 counsel, testifying by counsel, and it's vague and 10 misleading. 11 Q. Did you understand the question? I think you 12 know what I'm saying. 13 A. I know what you're sayingknow what you're saying. 15 Q. Okay. Do you have a response to it? 16 .A. My response is that there was nothing illegal 17 about it, and there are some parents who probably don't 18 care if their daughter dates a 35 or whatever however the time. 42?year?old guy. I've come 22 across those people in my years as a police officer. So 24 their daughter is not going to date somebody who is 25 considerably older, I'm I'm just trying to be very . i