on a a 0 Mike Hafner SPECIAL INVESTIGATIVE COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT wednesday, March 14, 2018 Jefferson City PoTice Department 401 Monroe_Street Jefferson City, Missouri 65101 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Representative Jay Barnes, Chair Representative Dona1d Phi11ips, Vice?Chair Representative Kevin Austin Representative Shawn Rhoads Representative Jeanie Lauer Representative Gina_Mitten Representative Tommie Pierson Jr. A150 present: Bryan Scheiderer, LegaT Ana1yst ATex Curchin . ATixandra Ha11en, Minority Counse1 REPORTED BY: BeverTy Jean Bentch, CCR No. 640 Tiger Court Reporting 111 East Broadway, Suite 310 CoTumbia, Missouri 65203 573.999.2662 1 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner INDEX Page MIKE HAFNER Questions by Representative Barnes 5 Questions by Representative Phi11ips 45 Questions by Representative Mitten 52 Questions by Representative Lauer 78 Questions by Representative Austin 90 Questions by Representative Rhoads 100 Questions by Representative Pierson Jr. 103 Further Questions by Representative Barnes 112 Further Questions by Representative Phi11ips 119 Further Questions by Representative Lauer 125 Further Questions by Representative Austin 129 Further Questions by Representative Barnes 131 Motion to C105e Meeting Next Friday 132 Motion for Subcommittee to do Interview 133 Motion to Authorize Interview of Mr. Laub 137 3 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner APPEARANCES For the witness: EDWIN C. ERNST, Iv Attorney at Law SOWERS ERNST 13321 N. Outer Forty Road, Suite 600 St. Louis, Missouri 63017 314.690.1724 2 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner (March 14, 2018) REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: We'11 ca11 to order this meeting of the House Specia1 Investigative Committee on Oversight. Mr. Secretary, pTease ca11 the r011. SECRETARY CURCHIN: Barnes. REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Here. SECRETARY CURCHIN: Phi11ips. REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: Here. SECRETARY CURCHIN: Mitten. REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Here. SECRETARY CURCHIN: Lauer. REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Here. SECRETARY CURCHIN: Austin. REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Here. SECRETARY CURCHIN: Rhoads. REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: Here. SECRETARY CURCHIN: Pierson. REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON: Here. REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Seven members being present. Everyone is here. Good morning. Thank you for being here. Before we start, Tet me administer the oath as prescribed in the resoTution creating our committee. Woqu you raise your right hand? 4 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner (witness sworn.) MICHAEL HAFNER, being sworn, testified as fo11ows: QUESTIONS BY REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Q. can you state your name? A. Mike Hafner. Q. can you spe11 your name for the court reporter? A. M?i?k?e H?a?f?n?e?r. Q. Mr. Hafner, have you ever given testimony in a deposition before? A. I have not. Q. okay. so this is not a deposition but it's a 1ot 1ike a deposition. So there are a few ground ru1es. The first is that in answering a question, you need to use words, not actions. 50 shaking your head yes or no wi11 not work. You have to say yes or no. The second is we want to be sure to have a c1ear record, and the way we do that is if someone asks you a question and you don't understand it or it's a compound question or asks mu1tip1e things, just ask them to stop, repeat the question so that you understand. The third is that if you need to stop for any reason, fee1 free to te11 us I'd 1ike to stop for a moment. with that, you've got a stack of documents in front of you there that we'11 get into in a second. 5 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner introduce him and go through the process of running for office. Q. At what point did you start getting paid by Mr. Greitens? A. we finaiized a compensation agreement in 1ate December of 2014 in a meeting at his office, and then I began officia11y working as a paid empioyee of his in January of 2015. Q. Now, you said paid emp1oyee of his. who was that? who was paying the bi11? A. $0 in January I don?t reca11 exactiy. It was either Eric Greitens himseif or the Greitens Group. I don?t reca11 where the check came from. I do know that the 1ast two months in February and March of my empioyment with him was paid by Greitens for Missouri. Q. How wou1d you describe Eric in that first year that you were working with himwouid describe my reiationship with first-time candidates, very new to the process. A150, he was coming from a unique background in the sense that he hadn't made very many reiationships around the state with Repubiican eiected Officiais or donors or infiuencersheip him do that p1us going through the whoie process of deciding to run for office and with Eric the options, the Offices that 7 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner First, some pre1iminary questions. when did you Counse1, if you'd 1ike to note your presence for the record? MR. ERNST: Thank you. Edwin C. Ernst, IV of Sowers Ernst for Mike Hafner. REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Thank you. BY REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Q. Mr. Hafner, when did you start working for Eric Greitens? A. I began work in January 2015 as a paid advisor to Eric Greitens. Q. Did you work for him at any point in time prior to that in a consu1ting ro1e? A. I served as an informai advisor as a voiunteer basis throughout 2014. That reiationship started in December 2013. Q. can you describe that first year as an informa1 advisor what was your job? A. Essentiaiiy to introduce Eric, network, he1p him network among Repubiican donors, infiuencers, activists. He was new to the poiiticai scene, to the Repubiican poiiticai scene. So when we first met him, that kind of began the reiationship. Like I said, we first met in December 2013. He reiied on us to heip 6 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner he wanted to run for were it was aiways indicated to us that it was either governor or 1ieutenant governor and our conversations were geared towards him running for a state-wide office. But my interaction with him it was certainiy a 10t 1ike how you wou1d approach a first?time candidate. with him it was a 1itt1e bit of a unique background because he had had a very, a very great resume and profiie for what you wouid want in a candidate. Q. okay. Let's go to the documents if you cou1d. Just pu11 the one off the top, the one that has the green sheet of paper on top 1abe1ed January 6, 2015. Do you recognize this document? A. Yes, that was an invitation for Q. Let me back up because I be1ieve is that the document 1abe1ed Exhibit 3 in the bottom right corner? A. Yes. Q. Page 1 of 24? A. Yes. REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: For members of the Committee, they're not 1abe1ed with numbers in your books but they are 1abe1ed with dates. BY REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Q. Do you recognize this page 1 here of Exhibit 3? 8 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner you recognize this? A. So this was a meeting that was set by Eric and his assistant. I was hired by Eric to he1p him with fundraising. Q. Ho1d on a second. Is this a fair and accurate representation of the meeting notes you received? A. Yes, it is. Q. And was this sent, in fact, by Eric Greitens? A. I do not know if it was sent by Eric. I can te11 you it was either sent by Eric or his assistant. Q. If his assistant sent it, was it sent at his direction? A. Yes. Q. Okay. And then the e-mai1 address at the top, was that the e-mai1 address that Mr. Greitens used to communicate with you? A. Not so much to communicate with me. A11 the meeting notices I be1ieve came from The Mission Continues e?mai1 address. He had a number of other e-mai1s that he communicated with. I don't reca11 a11 of them, but there was at 1east a coup1e. Q. Was this one of the e?mai1s used by Eric Greitens? A. For the meeting notices, yes. 9 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner A. So this is one of the first e?mai1s that I was provided when I became an officia1 paid staffer of Eric's, and I was supp1ied the four donor 1ists that they had that they I presume had been using in some capacity. Q. And who sent this e-mai1? What e-mai1 address was this sent from? A. Tay1or's. Q. Was that an e-mai1 address she regu1ar1y used to communicate with you and others? A. Yes. I be1ieve it is the on1y one she used to communicate with me and others. Q. Did Ms. Tay1or send this e-mai1 as a free agent or do you be1ieve she wou1d have sent that at the direction of Mr. Greitens? A. At the direction of Mr. Greitens. Q. okay. And there are four attachments to these e-mai1s. can you exp1ain what each of those are? A. Yes. so the first attachment, the A11 Donors 1,000 Tota1 and Up as of 5/17/14, that was provided to me and communicated that that was The Mission Continues 1ist which was Mr. Greitens' former charity. Q. Whose idea was it to use The Mission continues 1ist? A. I don't reca11 exact1y whose idea it was. I 11 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner Q. okay. And if Tay1or set a meeting, wou1d she have done so with the input and direction of Eric Greitens? A. Yes. Q. And what was job tit1e? A. I be1ieve it was vice president. She when I first met in 2015 sorry, in 2014, I be1ieve her job tit1e was his persona1 assistant. At some point, I don?t know exact1y when, she was made vice president of the Greitens Group. Q. Can you exp1ain did she operate I'm sorry. Let me back up. Did she operate as an executive assistant -- in sort of an executive assistant ro1e to Mr. Greitens? A. Yes. Setting the schedu1e, setting meeting times, phone ca11s, everything. Q. Wou1d you describe her as a free agent within the Greitens Group or as someone who worked at the direction of Eric Greitens? A. At the direction of Eric Greitens. Q. This meeting notice was sent out Tuesday. January 6 at 1:57 p.m. I want to direct you to page 2 of Exhibit 3. Do you recognize this? A. I do. Q. And what is this? 10 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner just know that I didn't know any of these 1ists existed. However, I was supp1ied them in one of the first days I was officia11y emp1oyed at Eric's or Mr. Greitens'. Q. Was it your decision to use them? A. It wasn't my decision. I know that that was one of the main 1ists that we used to create a fundraising p1an and ca11 1ist for Mr. Greitens. Q. Prior to this e?mai1, did you have access to any 1ist of donors to The Mission Continues? A. I did not. Q. There's a Danny Laub on this e-mai1 as we11. Who's Danny Laub? A. Danny Laub was a po1itica1 consu1tant that Eric had hired at some point in fa11 of 2014. I had known Danny from years prior. We went to the same co11ege. He was a 1itt1e bit younger than I was. we had a preexisting re1ationship before both working for Mr. Greitens, and he essentia11y was serving as Eric's campaign manager at the time. In Decembermeetings with me to discuss the campaign and a potentia1 ro1e for me in Eric's campaign. If I cou1d state something rea11y quick. The e-mai1 that -- obvious1y it says The Mission Continues 12 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner 1ist. I did not at the time know that that was direct property of the charity. Even though it obviousiy says it, I was unaware that that had I have no idea where it originated from. The press reports say it was the charity's e?mai1 1ist, but at the time I did not know that that was direct property of The Mission Continues. Q. Was it your idea to take The Mission Continues 1ist? A. It was not my idea certain1y to use it. I didn't know it existed before this e?mai1. It was an e?mai1 1ist, a contact 1ist that we uti1ized in the first in JanuaryMr. Greitens and myse1f. Q. Was Danny Laub ever an emp1oyee of The Mission Continues, to your know1edge? A. To my knowiedge, no. Q. And brief1y can you exp1ain what the other three attachments are? A. 50 I be1ieve the E6 Finance Prospects so the E6 Finance Prospects and the fundraising tracker, I don't reca11 exact1y what was in those documents. I be1ieve one of those was just peopie Eric had met throughout 2014, potentia1 donors, some nationa1 peop1e that he had been referred to. I know one of those 13 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner working for and at the direction of Eric Greitens? A. Yes. Q. Ask you to turn to the next page which is page 3, Attachment No. 1 and then pages 4 through 24. If you cou1d take a moment to review these. So we're c1ear, you sent this to the committee in the form of an Exce1 spreadsheet. We turned this on its side so that it cou1d a11 fit on one page. Yes. Do you recognize this? I do. And what is this? A. This is what was described to me as The Mission Continues 1ist. Q. Is it a fair and accurate representation of what you were sent in that e-mai1 as The Mission Continues 1ist? A. Yes. To c1arify, the Attachment No. 2 on page 16, that's part of the same 1ist. Q. That's correct. How many Do you reca11 how many tabs there were? A. There was three. There was one of individuai donors which is the first attachment, and then the document 1isted as Attachment No. 2 is I be1ieve the foundation tab, and the 1ast -- if there's another 15 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner documents was that. I don't know exact1y which one. Q. okay. A. And I think one of the other fundraising trackers -- to my knowiedge, the other fundraising tracker or the Finance Prospects was a 1ist that was created by a gentieman that Eric had been working with, a nationa1 fundraiser named Mason Fink. Oh, okay. The E6 Finance Prospects, that's the one that was Mason Fink's 1ist. He suppiied that to the campaign. The fundraising tracker, yeah, that was the 1ist that had peop1e that donors, infiuencers, that just Eric had come across through different contacts. The Schweich 1ist, I don't know how they acquired that 1ist, but it was Tom Schweich's fundraising 1ist which had to be created interna11y in the Schweich campaign, but I don't know how they acquired it. Q. To be c1ear for the record, these documents, you provided these documents to this Committee pursuant to a subpoena sent to you: is that correct? A. Correct. Q. And so these come from your own records; is that correct? A. Yes. Q. They are records you used in the process of 14 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner attachment in here, there was another tab of corporations and companies. Q. And do you reca11 anything about the meeting on January 7? A. so there were two meetings that we had, fundraising meetings in January, finance meetings. I don?t reca11 exact1y which of those two meetings we went through this 1ist. It might have been both of them. But at 1east in one of those meetings we went through the 1ist, the attachments from that e?mai1 except the Schweich 1ist. I don't reca11 ever going through the Schweich 1ist, but I worked with Mr. Greitens through the 1ist to identify donor prospects for him to contact. Q. when you say the 1ist, you mean restate what you just said. You worked with Mr. Greitens through The Mission Continues donor 1ist to identify peop1e to contact to donate to the po1itica1 campaign? A. Yes. And most of these donors I've been a po1itica1 consu1tant, worked in campaigns for a number of years on the Repubiican side. Most of The Mission Continues donors I was not with. There was some over1ap with your genera1 Repub1ican donors, but a 1ot of them I encountered for the first time on that 1ist. In those meetings Eric gave me notes on specific donors. And of course, donors were seiected based on 16 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner their abi1ity to give which is denoted in the 1ist of their 1ifetime giving history to The Mission Continues. So there were specific names obvious1y that were se1ected from that specific donor 1ist that I received notes on and further 1eads and peop1e to reach out to which came directiy from Mr. Greitens. Q. Did you Can you exp1ain the note? who made the notes in the far right-hand co1umn? I presume this was being sent to you. Do you know who made those notes? So for examp1e, on page 6 of 24, there's a note that says fami'ly of (phonetic spe'l'ling.) A. Sure, it is it's possibie Q. If you don't know who made that co1umn. A. I do not know exact1y. some of these I have no reco11ection of. Now, there?s some other notes on here that I possib1y cou1d have made at the time of going through this 1ist with Eric, but some of these notes they don't ring any I don't have any reco11ection of making. Most of the notes that I took regarding this 1ist were taken on a notepad and then I transferred them -- I typed them out on a computer. Q. okay. If you cou1d bund1e those together in order. We wi11 set those to the side. Now, I want to ask you about -- Are you on what's 1abe1ed January 19, 2015? 17 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner notes and action items from things I send them to my inbox so I can organize them better. It's just something that he1ps me. So they're notes that I took. They're action items that I took from our meeting with Mr. Greitens. Q. And can you exp1ain to the committee the second 1ine what that is in regards to? A. The second 1ine, there was an individua]. Q. Let's state what the "line says for the record. Line says meeting with Lindsey Hodges and Tay1or regarding TMC Contribution List. Meet with sometime this week. what was that about? A. 50 after going through The Mission Continues donor 1ist, at some point during the process Mr. Greitens didn't reca11 a number of names from the 1ist and I was directed he directed me to set up a meeting with Lindsey Hodges who it was indicated that she was either a current emp1oyee or a former emp1oyee of The Mission Continues. And Eric indicated that she wou1d have more extensive information on many of the donors from the 1ist and that I needed to reach out to her to go over the 1ist with her. I never met with Lindsey. I don't reca11 ever reaching out to her, but it's possib1e I cou1d have. But to my know1edge, I don't think she ever came into 19 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner A. Yes. Q. If you cou1d turn to the next page, I be1ieve that's 1abe1ed Exhibit 4; is that correct? A. Mine is not 1abe1ed. It does have an exhibit but it does not say 4. Q. Let's 1abe1 that one Exhibit 4 if you have a pen. A. (The witness comp1ied.) Q. Okay. Do you recognize this? A. I do. Q. And what is this? A. This was an invitation for another fundraising finance meeting with Mr. Greitens. Q. was Mr. Greitens present in both this fundraising meeting and the fundraising meeting mentioned in Exhibit 3? A. Yes. Q. okay. And did that meeting, in fact, occur on January 19, 2015? A. To my know1edge, yes. Q. I'd 1ike you to turn to page 2. Do you recognize this and what is this? A. I do. This is an e-mai1 that I sent to myse1f on January 19. Just persona11y the way I organize things it's a11 done through my e-mai1. So on specific 18 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner the office, and I certain1y never met with her persona11y to go over the 1ist. Q. Do you know why at this point in time? A. I don't -- I don't -- I don't know why, why that meeting was never set. Q. can you exp1ain to the committee the 1ayout of the office in which you were working with Did Tay1or work in the same office space? A. she did. Q. Did Danny Laub work in the same office space? A. Yes. Q. Did Eric Greitens work in the same office space? A. Yes. Q. Was there anyone e1se who worked in that office space? A. There was -- Q. on a regu1ar -- Let me back up. was there anyone e1se who worked in that office space on a regu1ar basis? A. There were two individuais that worked in there on a regu1ar basis. One who was so1e1y doing Greitens Group tasks, a gent1eman by the name of Chris Bobak. Then there was his father who a1so worked out of the same space regu1ar1y, not everyday but mu1tip1e days 20 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner every week. Q. Is that Mark Bobak? A. Yes. Q. okay. Can you describe the set-up of this office space? A. It was the first f1oor of a converted home in the centra1 west end 1ocated on west Pine. They had just moved in there sometime in the fa11 of 2014. They had access to the upper f1oors as we11 as the basement. And when you wa1ked in the office to the right when you wa1ked into the first f1oor from the street, to the right was office. To the 1eft was where Danny and I worked in an office a1ong with Mark Bobak. I'm sorry if I said that incorrect1y. To the 1eft was where Danny and I worked out of an office and then a1so to the 1eft was a conference room which is what Mr. Greitens worked out of. Q. okay. so this is on the first f1oor of the home. There's a common ha11way between these spaces. Is this the type of space where if you needed something from another 1awyer that basica11y others cou1d hear your conversations in your office? A. Yes. Q. so it's a -- wou1d you describe it as a sort of open office setting where everyone cou1d hear 21 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner Mission Continues -- from The Mission Continues fundraising 1ist into this Sa1es Force database? A. I do not remember if I did or not. I know I uti1ized Sa1es Force to take information from it. Q. And so on page 4 of this exhibit, this 1ist of persons, do you remember -- do you reca11 where you came up with this 1ist of persons? A. To my reco11ection, this was these were names that we identified off those 1ists that off the fundraising 1ists that Mr. Greitens and I went through and Q. off the fundraising 1ists. Do you mean the combination of the four 1ists that were in that first exhibit? A. I know we never used the Schweich 1ist but certain1y those other three 1ists. Q. Inc1uding The Mission Continues 1ist? A. Yes. And so to my reco11ection these were names that there weren?t any contact information for and I needed to secure phone numbers and contact info so Eric cou1d 501icit them for contributions. Q. Are the documents contained within what we've 1abe1ed here as Exhibit 5 fair and accurate representations of the documents that you were uti1izing at the direction and emp1oyment of Mr. Greitens? 23 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner everyone e1se and everyone is operating basica11y within the same space? A. Yes. For private conversations, I know I stepped out a number of times, but genera11y, yes, we worked in an open space. Most of the time Mr. Greitens? conference room door was c1osed. Q. okay. If I cou1d now direct you to if we cou1d put that one away to January 28, 2015. And is there a number on that exhibit? A. There is not. Q. If we cou1d 1abe1 that Exhibit 5. Do you recognize this? A. I do. Q. what is this? A. This was an e-mai1 thread that started because I was working on bui1ding some ca11 1ists for Mr. Greitens and there was contact information that I needed that I didn't have, numbers and some other, you know, e-mai1s and maybe some notes that -- but basica11y just contact information, and Sa1es Force was the contact management system that Mr. Greitens used for the Greitens Group. Q. Was this his account eric@greitensgroup.com? A. To my know1edge, yes. Q. okay. And did you input information about The 22 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner A. Can you repeat the question? Q. Are the documents in Exhibit 5 fair and accurate representations of documents that you created and uti1ized whi1e you were emp1oyed and working under the direction of Mr. Greitens? A. Yes. Q. And in case, I'm not sure if I asked the question, for Exhibits 3 and 4, the documents in Exhibit 3 and 4 fair and accurate representations of documents that you both created and received in the course of working for Mr. Greitens and at the direction of Mr. Greitens? A. Yes. Q. You have not a1tered them in any form or fashion? A. Certain1y not the e?mai1s I've not a1tered in any form or the meeting invites. so in Exhibit 4, no. Q. Let me be c1ear with my question because you received fundraising 1ists? A. Uh?huh. Q. In the course of your emp1oyment for Mr. Greitens. your duty was to use those fundraising 1ists to create another 1ist? A. Yes. Q. so you did a1ter those 1ists at some point in 24 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 25 Mike Hafner time. correct? You used them in some fashion to create something e1se, correct? A. Yes. Q. okay. But what you sent us in response to our subpoena are the documents as they were sent to you on those particu1ar dates and time? A. Yes. Q. And you did not a1ter them in any form or fashion before sending them to us as they were received by you on those dates and times? A. I think I'm not sure how to exact1y answer that because those 1ists I wouid have saved on my own to my computerterms of that, they were a1tered because they saved them. Q. You saved them. Your a1teration -- To the extent that you were testifying that you a1tered them, it was to the extent you pressed the save button on your computer? A. Yes. Q. You did not input new things into them? A. No. Q. You didn't de1ete items from them? A No. Q. okay. You just hit the save button to your own hard drive, correct? 25 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner comp1icated than running a regu1ar -- THE COURT REPORTER: I'm sorry. Cou1d you read a 1itt1e bit s1ower. REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Yes, I can. BY REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Q. Let's scratch where I started. go s1ower. To whom did you send this e-mai1? A. To Danny Laub. Q. And was this processed at the direction and service of Mr. Greitens? A. Yes. Q. okay. Now, here's what the paragraph says, and I quote: It is more comp1icated than running a regu1ar fundraising program because the majority of our p1an is based on engaging a who1e new group of non-traditiona1 donors that I wi11 on1y have a 1imited background research on, hence why I need Eric's guidance one more time on these donors and then we can get rocking. Can you exp1ain what you meant by that 1on9 sentence? A. So Mr. Greitens coming from the background of being the CEO of The Mission Continues, as we11 as not being fami1iar with many Repubiican donors in the state or donors that genera11y wou1d give to Repubiicans in Missouri, he was engaging in a comp1ete1y 27 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner A. Yes. Now, as I said eariier on the specific Mission Continues 1ist, some of those notes it's possibie but not 1ike1y that some of those notes were mine in the co1umn; but in terms of actua11y adding to the 1ist or de1eting anything, that did not occur. Q. I now direct you to February 2. I think that has six pages. If you cou1d put that to the side. And if you cou1d turn to the first page there. Does that have an exhibit number on it? A. It does. Q. Okay. We're going to renumber. We're on 6. MR. ERNST: If I may. Give me just one second to c1arify something that you?re asking him. I think it wi11 make it go a 1itt1e smoother. REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Okay. BY REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Q. Is that -- I'm sorry. Are we on 6? Can you mark that as Exhibit 6. Do you recognize this? A. Yes. Q. And what is this? A. This was a finance pian, a fundraising pian for Mr. Greitens' campaign that I deveioped based on the 1ists that I received and aiso input from Mr. Greitens. Q. okay. I want to ask you about this paragraph. Let me read the paragraph. It says it is more 26 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner non?traditiona1 group of donors and wou1d re1y on a comp1ete1y different group of donors than other Repubiicans in his position running for a state?wide office. And so what I meant by this paragraph was that I rea11y needed more background information on some of the donors in order to put together a ca11 1ist, a so1icitation 1ist for Mr. Greitens to work through, and many of these donors were peopie that he wou1d on1y he wou1d have known through the charity and so I needed his first?hand know1edge of his re1ationship of other pertinent information regarding these donors. Q. Did you sit down with him with information from The Mission Continues to go through these donors and 1earn more about them? A. Yes. Q. How wou1d you describe Mr. Greitens' po1itica1 out1ook at this time, at this time? By "at this time," I mean February 2015 and the months prior. A. Sure. Sti11 very new. He was occupied with some other things at the time as we11 inciuding a book that he had just written that was p1anned for 1aunch. Q. Let me back you up because I think you heard my question one way and I meant it the other. I'm going to the non-traditiona1 donor part of your sentence. I think you're thinking of the question prognostication of 28 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner e1ection resu1ts. My question is directed to his po1itics at the time as it regards your statement the non-traditiona1 donors. so the question is what his po1itica1 out1ook at that time not as regards to e1ections but as regards to these donors, potentia11y other donors, pub1ic statements and the 1ike. can you describe what that was in February if you'd 1ike, February 2015 if you'd 1ike prior to that? A. Just so I understand the question. were you referring to his po1itica1 phiiosophy at the time? Q. I am. I am. Particu1ar1y this sentence gets into the non?traditiona1 donors and your work with him up to that point in time. A. Sure. We11, he had bui1t reiationships with a 1ot of Democratic donors. Everything that we had heard up unti1 the time I started working with Mr. Greitens was that he was a so1id Democrat. And he approached this whoie process from a compiete1y different viewpoint than most candidates wou1d when they?re running for one of the highest offices in the state in terms of we needed -- we had meetings and messaging sessions where he had to work through Repubiican poiicies because he just wasn't fami1iar with them. The running joke between Danny Laub and I was that Eric didn't have two sentences where he couid te11 you why he was Repubiican. 29 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner s1ate in January or February of 2015? A. I was extremeiy skeptic of his conservative beiiefs at the time. Q. Are we on Exhibit 6? A. whether he was a b1ank s1ate or not, again, my previous experience with him, what I had heard and knowing some of his background from other individua1s about him iooking at running for office as a Democrat in years prior, there wasn't a b1ank s1ate per se but I be1ieved up unti1 the point he started taiking to us and ta1king about running as a Repub1ican that he was a Democrat . Q. I'd 1ike to direct you to page 7 of this exhibit. This is a1so from February 2, 2015. This is a1so to Mr. Laub, correct? A. Uh?huh. Q. It describes a 1ist that's 1isted as Draft 1, very creative name. we've attached that herein. Are these fair and accurate representations both of the e-mai1 that you sent to Mr. Laub and of the attachment you sent to him? A. Yes. Q. And did you create these? A. Yes. Q. In the course and scope of your emp1oyment for 31 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner That's a major issue when you're going out to soiicit donors when you can't te11 them why you're running in the party that you're running in. Q. what do you be1ieve his motivations were at the time based on your meetings with him and conversations with him? A. In terms of the office that he wanted to run for or his ambition? Q. In terms of what moved him to be in this race and to hire you in the first p1ace. A. It was so1e1y his ambition for the highest office in the state for governor. Q. How many candidates do you think you've worked with over the 1ast decade? A. At 1east ten persona11y. In a much broader sca1e, a iot more than that. I wou1dn't know the exact number. I worked for a consu1ting firm that advised different party committees and things 1ike that where I worked with a number of candidates. Q. In terms of candidates being driven by core ideo1ogica1 be1iefs, where wou1d you rank Mr. Greitens on the sca1e of every candidate you've worked for? A. Very, very 10w on a sca1e, on an ideo1ogica1 sca1e. Q. Did you have a be1ief that he was a b1ank 30 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner Mr. Greitens and at the direction of Mr. Greitens? A. Yes. Q. okay. You state in the e-mai1 you weren't sure if he had made ca11s from this 1ist. Do you know if he 1ater made ca11s using this 1ist? A. To my know1edge, he did. There are some documents that I be1ieve have been withhe1d from the Committee that wou1d indicate that he did make caiis using the 1ist. MR. ERNST: Just for the record, there is the potentia1 for attorney/c1ient privi1eged documents as it pertains to Mr. Greitens or his campaign. Out of an abundance of caution because there are mu1tip1e investigations ongoing, inciuding with the Attorney Genera1's Office and circuit attorney in St. Louis who's conducting a criminai investigation, we have attempted to segregate those documents out subject to further review and determination about whether they are privi1eged. we have no opinion about whether they?re priviieged. Once that process p1ays out and if it's determined that they're not privi1eged and you wouid 1ike further testimony from Mr. Hafner, he'11 be happy to provide it at that time. So he's going to stay away from any topic that wou1d require him to disciose communications that may have invo1ved attorneys 32 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner associated with the Greitens campaign inc1uding Mark Bobak. REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: okay. Thank you. Thank you for that. BY REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Q. If I cou1d direct you to page 9 of this exhibit and the notes herein. It's kind of c001 to see George w. Bush's name on this 1ist. This notes co1umn, if you 1ook at the second row. A. Uh?huh. Q. It says TMC $1,000 Donor. And did you fi11 out that notes co1umn through in conjunction with review of The Mission Continues 1ist? A. Yes. Q. Was it a1so in conjunction with conversations with Mr. Greitens? A. Yes. Q. That wou1d be true of this entire co1umn in this entire document, correct? A. Yes, yes. Q. Now direct you to February 5, 2015. If I cou1d have you 1abe1 this as Exhibit 7. And can you describe what Exhibit 7 is? A. It appears to be the first ca11 1ist that I deve1oped for Mr. Greitens. 33 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner . N0. In response to our subpoena? A A. No. Q. I now direct you to February 17, 2015. Is there a sticker on that? Can we 1abe1 that as Exhibit 8, Mr. Hafner? A. (The witness compiied.) Q. And can you describe what this is? A. This is a ca11 1ist. Q. Let me back up. I want to make sure we're correct. This is on February 17. I be1ieve I said February 7. It is February 17. can you describe what we've 1abe1ed as Exhibit 8, what it is? A. Yes. This is another ca11 1ist that I modified and supp1ied to Eric to make phone ca11s off of. Q. when you say "modified," do you mean before sending it on February 17 or do you mean subsequent to sending it -- right before sending it to us? A. No. whi1e sending it on prior to sending it on February 17. Q. okay. And is this e-mai1 and the attachment thereto a fair and accurate representation of the e?mai1 you sent to Mr. Greitens and Ms. Tay1or and the attachment thereto? 35 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner Q. And to whom did you send that ca11 1ist? A. To Mr. Greitens and Danny Laub. Q. And did that ca11 1ist which is attached inc1ude information about Mission Continues donors and how much they had given? A. Yes. Q. At any point in time, did Mr. Greitens te11 you you shou1dn't be using The Mission Continues 1ist? A. No. Q. If you had refused to use The Mission Continues 1ist, do you be1ieve what do you be1ieve Mr. Greitens wou1d have said or done? A. I don't want to specu1ate on that. Again, at the time I did not know it be1onged to The Mission Continues or how it was acquired. so I didn't rea11y think very much of it. It obvious1y was described as that to me, but again I didn't. Q. Did you be1ieve Mr. Greitens had permission to use this 1ist? A. Yes. Q. Is this a fair and accurate representation of the e-mai1 as you sent it with the attachment as you sent it to Mr. Greitens? A. Yes. Q. You've not a1tered it in any form or fashion? 34 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner A. Yes. Q. To your know1edge, did Mr. Greitens use this attachment ca11 1ist? A. To my knowiedge, yes. Q. And did it identify Mission Continues donors and the precise amounts of their donations? A. Yes. Q. Did Mr. Greitens use that information in the course of making phone ca11s to raise money for his campaign? A. To my knowiedge, yes. Q. I now direct you to March 20, 2015. And if you cou1d 1abe1 that as Exhibit 9. A. (The witness comp1ied.) Q. Can you describe for the Committee what this e-mai1 is? A. Yes, it is a donor prospect 1ist that I created that inciuded a11 the notes that Mr. Greitens provided to me on specific donors and donor prospects that cou1d contribute to his campaign. Q. so if we cou1d turn to page 6 of 25, - and A. uh-huh. Q. They're 1abe1ed as a $10,500 donor to The Mission Continues? 36 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner A. Uh?huh. Q. And that is data you pu11ed from The Mission Continues 1ist; is that correct? A. Yes. Q. And at the request and working with Mr. Greitens? A. Yes. Q. And the same wou1d be true of everywhere e1se in this database where it is 1isted as TMC and an amount? A. Yes. Q. Do you know approximate1y how much money was raised by the Greitens campaign from Mission Continues donors? A. I do not know the approximate amount. I know it was substantia1. Q. Do you be1ieve it to be over a mi11ion do11ars? A. Yes. Q. Do you be1ieve it to be around $2 mi11ion? A. I don't want to specuiate. I know that's what one of the press accounts said on it. I do not know. Q. of course the documents wi11 speak for themse1ves. we have pub1ic records reports to do this. I'm going to hand you another exhibit. If you cou1d 37 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner and that is based on my knowiedge of the fundraising of The Mission Continues charity which raised in excess of $10 mi11ion a year. Q. And based on your first-hand experience, did the campaign receive the "list from Danie'l Laub? A. No. Q. In fact, your e-mai1 shows it was received from Tay1or at the direction of Eric Greitens, correct? A. Yes. Q. Do you know why Mr. Laub wou1d agree to state that he had given that contribution? A. I can on1y specu1ate on that. I do not know the exact reason why. Q. Have you spoken to Mr. Laub about it? A. I have not spoken to Mr. Laub since March 2015. Q. Do you know what Mr. Laub how 1on9 he 1asted with the campaign? A. I don't know the exact time of his separation with the campaign. It was in the fa11 of 2015. Q. Do you have any idea where he worked after 1eaving the campaign? A. I just know where he works now. I don't know what he did in between. I had heard that he had worked 39 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner 1abe1 that Exhibit 10. This is not your document. so this is an amended report from the Missouri Ethics Commission. If I cou1d turn you to I be1ieve the second to 1ast page. Let me approach again and get another exhibit in the record. Mr. Curchin is going to hand you what's been 1abe1ed as Exhibit 11. If you cou1d turn to paragraph 10 of Exhibit 11. In your experience with campaigns, does a 1ist which resu1ts in the raising of over a mi11ion do11ars have a va1ue wou1d it have a va1ue of $600? A. Yes. Q. Yes, it wou1d have a va1ue of $600? A. I'm sorry. It wou1d have a va1ue of much greater than $600. MR. ERNST: I be1ieve you said over 600. REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Let's back up and 1'11 ask the question. BY REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Q. Do you be1ieve it is accurate to say that the va1ue of The Mission continues 1ist which was used to raise over a mi11ion do11ars was $600? A. NO. Q. okay. And do you be1ieve the va1ue to be higher than $600? A. I be1ieve it wou1d be a iot higher than $600, 38 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner on a congressiona1 race or something in Michigan, but I don't have any direct know1edge. Q. You never ta1ked to Mr. Laub after 1eaving the campaign: is that correct? A. No. Last time I spoke to him was the day of our separation in March of 2015. Q. And after 1eaving the Greitens campaign, did you work for any other campaigns in 2016? A. Yes. I worked for John Brunner starting in August of 2015, and then I worked for Kurt Schaefer in 2016. I be1ieve those were the on1y two campaigns I had a ro1e on the rest of that cyc1e. Q. Did you work for Mr. Brunner through the primary in 2016? A. I did. Q. And for Mr. Schaefer through the primary in 2016? A. Yes. Q. In those months between January and March, did you have any discussions with Mr. Greitens about how the campaign may concea1 the source of donations? A. Not direct1y to that topic, but he directed me to have conversations with donors who intended to raise significant amounts of money and concea1 the donors, concea1 the identity of those donors. 40 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner Q. Do you reca11 who those donors were? A. There was one in particuiar, an individua] by the name of Monu Joseph. He was in Ca1ifornia. To my reco11ection, I had two phone conversations with him. There was some e?mai1 traffic as we11 which has been withheid due to privi1ege from Mr. Greitens' end. He contributed ear1y to the campaign in the form of some LLCs that he had in Caiifornia, and I discussed with Monu he wanted to discuss with me how the campaign was going to bundie contributions and conceai the identity of donors. Q. who is Monu Joseph? What's the nature of his business? I assume he owns a business? A. I beiieve he does. Q. Do you know what the nature of that business isbe1ieve it was something in rea1 estate, and there were two contributions ear1y on to Mr. Greitens campaign that came from Monu. One had an odd name 1ike Gray Income LLC or Gray Income Property or something 1ike that, but there were two ear1y conversations there were two ear1y contributions from him that didn't have his name on it. They came from LLCs, but I don't know the nature of those businesses. 41 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner discussions about concea1ing the identity of donors? A. No. Q. so you had conversations with Mr. Greitens, correct? A. Uh?huh. Q. You'Yes. Q. And that was about one of those conversations was about concea1ing the identity of a donor? A. It was about reaching out to specific donors who were intending to raise a 10t of money and wanting to know how to do it. Q. okay. Mr. Joseph. Do you have any other names of donors who intended to do so through a route of concea1ment? A. There was one other individuai named A1ex Rogers. He was a gentieman I never had any direct conversations with him, but I was 1ed to be1ieve that he 1ived overseas. He was intending to raise a 10t of money and wanted to know how to do it. Q. From whom was he going to raise money? A. I don't -- We didn't get that far in conversations or anything. I never spoke to him directiy. There was e-mai1 traffic that indicates a11 43 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner Q. where were those LLCS 1ocated? A. I be1ieve they were iocated in Caiifornia. Q. were they created for the purpose of making a contribution? A. I do not know. Q. If you were provided with a campaign finance disc1osure statement from the Greitens campaign for the first six months of 2015, do you be1ieve you'd be ab1e to identify the LLCs attached to A. Yes. Q. Mr. Joseph? A. Yes. Q. Okay. We may fo11ow up. A. We11, I think they might even be in this exhibit if this is from that time period. Q. That is an amended period. so we'11 take a break at some point if you want to review those rather than have you 100k down as the committee is staring at you. Were there any other individua1s with whom you had contact who were discussing ways to concea1 donations? A. Yes. Again, I think the information on that wou1d be withhe1d. Q. Were there any other individua1s with whom you had conversations who were not 1awyers and there were not 1awyers present in the room when you were having 42 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner of that, but that wou1d be withhe1d. Q. Were there any conversations about receiving donations from foreign nationa15? A. Yes. Q. Were those conversations surrounding Mr. Rogers? A. Yes, I was 1ed to beiieve that he was one of the peop1e. There was another conversation with Monu that I had where Monu said that he had that he had a bunch of friends from Oxford. I be1ieve that was Monu's connection to Eric, that they had met whi1e at Oxford, and Menu indicated that there was a number of peopie that wou1d contribute to Mr. Greitens' campaign. Q. Were these British donors or do you know what nationa1ity? A. No, I do not know. Q. Where is Mr. Rogers' neighborhood? I'm sorry. I cou1dn't resist. I'm sorry. Do you know what country Mr. Rogers is a resident of? A. I be1ieve him to be British. Q. okay. A. I don't know -- I do not know where he 1ived at the time. I know he 1ived overseas, but I don't reca11 where he was from. 44 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner Q. Based on your work in that campaign, do you beiieve that, in fact, there was a strategy emp1oyed to concea1 donors? A. I be1ieve that was an intention of the campaign's ear1y on. Q. Do you be1ieve it was carried out? A. Yes. REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: I be1ieve 1'11 hand it over to my vice?chair. Do you want to take a short break to prepare? REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: Not to prepare. REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Let's take a short break. we?11 come back in approximate1y ten minutes. (A recess was taken.) REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Back from break. Representative Phi11ips. REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: Thank you. QUESTIONS BY REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: Q. Don Phi11ips, State Representative District 138 which is near Branson, Tab1e Rock Lake. why did you 1eave the Eric Greitens campaign? Did I miss that? I didn't hear that discussed at a11. I'm just curious why you 1eft. A. $0 a number of consu1tants that I have professiona] reiationships with had indicated to Eric, 45 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner A. They saw a confiict of interest because the reiationships I had with other consuitants. As it was said eariier, I did end up going to work for John Brunner. That wasn't unti1 months 1ater in August of that year. In their mind, because I had a re1ationship with other consu1tants that had known John and had worked with John, that there was a confiict in their mind but at the time I never had a conversation with John Brunner that I reca11. I had no professionai re1ationship with him or anything e1se. Q. So you 1eft on a good basis? A. As good as it cou1d have been, yeah. Q. Now, when you worked for Brunner and Schaefer's campaign, did you experience the same procedures with them when it came to fundraising as far as hiding donors? Is that just typica1 in po1itics behind c'losed doors to typica'l try to hide donors? Did you experience that in the other two campaigns? can you comment on that? A. I did not experience that in either of the campaigns I had a roie on. The candidates I've worked for I've not experienced that either. Q. okay. so this was unique to Greitens campaign as far as your know1edge goesexperience with candidates 47 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner Mr. Greitens, that if he ran for governor that they wouid not be -- they wouid not have a ro1e on his campaign for governor. And because of my professionai re1ationship with those consuitants, in the days that they had that conversation with Mr. Greitens, Danny Laub asked me to come into his office when I got in in the morning and he said that they were severing they had made the decision to sever a11 ties with those consu1tants and that Eric was 100 percent focused on running for governor and he had ru1ed out any other potentiai office to run for and because of, as I said, because of my re1ationship with those consuitants, they wanted to take a, quote, strategic pause on my re1ationship with Mr. Greitens and his campaign. It was never indicated that a separation was permanent at the time. Danny Laub, Mr. Greitens' attorney and Mr. Greitens himse1f a11 to1d me that at some point if things changed, if the dynamics of the primary had changed, they wou1d iove to bring me back on. Mr. Greitens himseif t01d me that I wou1d make a great emp1oyee in the governor's office some day. It was as amicabie separation as it cou1d have been. Q. okay. so in your mind was there a po1itica1 conf1ict of interest on your part? Is that the way they saw it maybe? 46 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner and my personai experience, it was unique. There are other candidates that operate in that fashion. Q. okay. I was just curious about your part. Now, what's the purpose Educate me a 1itt1e on the purpose of concea1ing donors. I mean why wou1d a person want to do that running for a high profi1e job? A. Sure. There?s a number of reasons for it. I think from a candidate's perspective it's they don't want to be seen as being purchased by a particu1ar donor if they're giving mass amounts of money. I know it's 1ega1 or it was 1ega1 at the time in Missouri. There weren't any contribution 1imits to give a mi11ion do11ars to a specific candidate, but I think the exposure certainiy is one both from the candidate side and from the donor side. They don't want to be seen as inf1uencing a certain candidate. They might have business before the state. There might be a 1egitimate conf1ict. And I think there's a number of reasons for why you'd want to from a candidate perspective and from a donor's perspective. I'm not going to argue on the 1egitimacy or why, you know, peop1e shou1d or shouid not operate in that manner. Q. Do you have an opinion about why Eric Greitens particu1ar1y wanted to hide the donors? A. Again, I don't rea11y want to specu1ate on 48 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner something 1ike that. I don't know what his motivation specifica11y was. Q. ATI right. There's been a term tossed around ca11ed dark money when it comes to the Greitens campaign. Are you comfortab1e describing what you think dark money is? A. Yes. Q. okay. Wou1d you describe that to me because I don't know that I tota11y understand what it is. I've got an idea. A. Sure. I be1ieve it to be a way that donors exert inf1uence in campaigns without having to conceai their identity -- without having to disc1ose their identities. It happens for a number of reasons. But yeah, I be1ieve it's an effort to not be transparent with who's funding particu1ar issues or candidates. Q. So it's fair to say it's peop1e that have a considerab1e amount of money and therefore they have some inf1uence as we11 probab1y due to the amount of money that they're putting into the fundraising efforts? A. Genera11y, yes. However, everyone has the abi1ity to give to some of these ghost corporations and LLCs and other things that in turn can provide money to a state 1itt1e PAC 1ike in Missouri or operate outside of the norma] campaign finance structure, but yeah, you 49 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner do be1ieve in transparency. On another 1eve1, I know what the truth is and I had a1ways assumed that this issue wou1d come back up when I saw the consent form from the MEC. It's not easy for me to be here. I am a Repub1ican campaign consuitant, and I think this is a very serious and somber time for our state. But my motivation is it's not the money or anything eise. I'm paying for my own attorneys. Probab1y the on1y may be the on1y one that doesn't have a defense fund on this. But my motivation is I be1ieve in good government. That?s what drove me to get in poiitics in the first p1ace. I be1ieve in working for good candidates that a1ign with my poiitica1 phi1osophy and the same princip1es that I have. Q. So you have no axe to grind with Eric Greitens? You're not attempting to get back at him in any way or anything 1ike that? A. No. You know, it hurts me with some of my c1ients that I'm here if they knew I was testifying. I advise some pro business PACs and I am a registered 1obbyist. I 1obby for a Senate right group that advocates for 1abor reform and other premarket reforms, education reform and some other things. Yeah, it probab1y I mean it hurts me professiona11y if they know that I'm here testifying against the sitting 51 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner cou1d give $50 or you cou1d give $500,000 or $5 mi11ion. Q. Were you ever aware of any conversations that specifica11y mentioned the Ethics commission and not reporting accurate1y to them, trying to hide money from them specifica11y? A. I don't reca11 any conversations to that effect, no. Q. Wou1d you describe yourse1f as an honest person? A. Yes. Q. Wou1d your acquaintances agree with that, as far as you know? A. YB. M'hrasIkmw,ws. Q. Not just your friends but acquaintances as we11? A. I work in po1itics so everybody has enemies in po1itics. Q. Broader definition, isn't it? A. Yes. Q. My 1ast question to you is what is your motive for providing us with this particu1ar information, the e-mai1s, records of your e-mai1s, the records of the donors? what prompted you or what drives you to share that information with us? A. I think a number of things. In campaigns, I 50 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner governor of our party. MR. ERNST: And I shou1d aiso c1arify for the record just so it's c1ear, the documents that are provided and the testimony today were pursuant to a subpoena from this Committee which compe11ed the production of those documents and his testimony. REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: Right, and I understand that, but I think there had to be some conversations prior to that than just occurred out of the c1ear b1ue. I think there had to be some agreement if there were documents avai1ab1e if a subpoena had ever been issued. Wouid that be fair to say? MR. ERNST: I can't speak to that. I don't know how the Committee determined that Mr. Hafner, my c1ient, shou1d be subject to a subpoena. But again, it was in response to and as compe11ed by that subpoena that he provided the information. REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: A11 right. Thanks. Thank you, Mr. Chair. REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Representative Mitten. QUESTIONS BY REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Q. Good morning. I'm Gina Mitten. I'm from St. Louis county. My district is the 83rd that represents both parts of St. Louis city and St. Louis County. cou1d you brief1y describe your campaign experience? 52 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner You said you've been in this business for a number of years. I don't necessari1y need the who1e candidates but, you know. how many years and in what ro1es? A. Sure. 1'11 give you a quick 30-second rundown. Q. The pitch. A. I got my start with Governor Matt B1unt's campaign in 2004. In c011ege took a semester off, worked for US Senator Jim Ta1ent, worked for Sarah Stee1man and the state party in 2008, state Repub1ican party as coa1itions director. I worked for a business civic group in St. Louis ca11ed the Regionai Business Counci1 for a year and ten months, and then I worked on a number of campaigns starting with then Lieutenant Governor Peter Kinder in 2011-2012 and a number of other campaigns unti1 2015 when I worked for when I began work for Mr. Greitens. Q. And in your ro1e working for these prior candidates or campaigns, what wou1d -- we11, had you done fundraising for those prior campaigns? A. Yes. Q. How many years sort of fundraising? I'm going to get this question out one way or the other. How many years did you work as a fundraiser or perform that function for po1itica1 campaigns prior to January 2015? 53 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner Q. Right. Isn't it fair to say that even if your primary duty is fundraising, fo1ks in that position wou1d genera11y be invo1ved in some of these other more po1icy? A. Yes. Q. Right? A. Yes. Q. Because part of fundraising is being ab1e to provide a message to the potentia1 donor? A. Abso1ute1y. Q. In your fundraising experience outside of your work for Governor Greitens, was it traditiona1 to pu11 from a charitab1e 1ist? A. No, that's not my experience with any candidates I?ve ever worked for. Q. Is it fair to say the time from January to March of 2015 whi1e you worked for Eric Greitens, that's the on1y time in your po1itica1 emp1oyment history in which you pu11ed from a 1ist owned or maintained by a charitab1e organization? A. Yes. Q. can you just sort of give a 1itt1e bit of understanding about how does this work in that not necessari1y for Mr. Greitens but, okay, I'm going to come and I'm going to do fundraising for you. The first 55 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner A. My first experience in fundraising for a candidate was in 2008. Q. okay. A. Since then, yeah, it's a1ways been a ro1e that I've had. Not the direct ro1e that I've had but I?ve managed and directed every department of the campaign whether it?s grassroots, fundraising, communications. Q. Is it fair to say that starting in 2008 fundraising was at 1east one if not a primary component of your work as a A. Yes. Q. po1itica1 advisor throughout from 2008 to 2015 or '14? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Thank you. Then in your work when performing the fundraising aspects 1et me ask this first. when you were hired by Mr. Greitens. was fundraising your primary ro1e or what was your tit1e and what duties were encompassed in that tit1e? A. I was 1ed to be1ieve that I was brought on to coordinate fundraising for his campaign. In my experience, I was an advisor on numerous other issues, inc1uding po1icy deve1opment, some communications work, just genera1 poiitica1 stuff. 54 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner thing we're going to do is pu11 some 1ists. what is sort of the traditiona1 method by which you wou1d pu11 1ists or what expectations wou1d you have from the candidate or campaign to support in that endeavor? A. Sure. we11, for me persona11y you bui1d a fundraising p1an and you have a goa1 that's set based on how much money you need to win your campaign. From that you deve1op a p1an. You se1ect prospects for the candidate to so1icit and bui1d numbers around that. And se1ecting prospects is genera11y based on their abi1ity to give. How you determine that is a 1ot from their previous donor history. You a11 know donors that have given to previous campaigns or active in po1itics are the ones that are 1ike1y to give in future e1ections and future candidates. So it's a process of se1ecting those prospects, bui1ding the fundraising p1an and then your direct outreach. Q. Then making the ca11s? A. Yes. Q. where do these 1ists come from? In other words, obvious1y the candidate or. you know, the candidate or the stakeho1ders to the campaign, they're going to start with their own Ro1odexes and a11 that kind of stuff? 56 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner A. Friends and fami1y. Q. Right, friends and fami1y, a11 of that. outside of that individua1's persona1 network, where e1se do 1ists come from that you reference? You reference there are 1ists referenced in the e?mai1. There is, what is it, the TMC 100, I can't remember, 2,000? A. Yeah, 1,000 p1us. Q. So where do those 1ists come from just genera11y speaking? where e1se do you go to get this information? A. Certain1y consuitants wi11 share a 1ist among their c1ients. Q. Right. A. They'11 take a 1ist from a certain state-wide campaign and use it for another state?wide campaign. They'11 have one from 2012 that they use for 2016 cyc1e. Q. Is it fair to say that that's part of your va1ue? A. Sure, yeah. I don't consider myseif a fu11-time fundraiser which is something that I know how to do that I've done for other candidates. Certainiy the fundraisers in our state, they have buiit up 1ists and cu1tivated those 1ists and donors over a period of e1ection cycies. 57 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner maintaining contact information, ce11 phone numbers, e-mai1 addresses, as we11 as providing a 1ist, a 1ifetime contribution 1ist. Most of the time we'11 go through an MEC report and pu11 off but you sti11 have to find contact information. Q. Right. A. Va1uing it at over $600, I don't know what the exact va1ue wouid be, but in my personai experience a 1ist that raises in excess of mi11ions of do11ars a year, $10 mi11ion a year wou1d be pretty va1uab1e to me. Q. It's something that a 1ot of fo1ks wou1d want to get their hands on? A. A 1ot of candidates, abso1ute1y. Q. Right. And a1so that va1ue wou1d be combined from again sort of the manpower of creating it, the manpower of maintaining it and whatnot? A. Sure, yeah. Q. wou1d you say that a 1ist 1ike that is simi1ar in va1ue or operation to any business's 1ist of c1ients or customers? A. Can you ask that question again? Q. We11, for instance, if I'm ABC widget Company and I se11 widgets to a thousand different businesses across the country, XYZ widget company might be very interested in knowing who my customers were, what the 59 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner Q. Right. And it's not just the data, it's a1so the re1ationships? A. Absoiuteiy. Q. That again is part of the va1ue of hiring an experienced fundraiser is they're going to be ab1e to bring to the campaign that data, those re1ationships and the genera'l information about what the pitch 'looks 'like I guess wou1d Abso1ute1y. They'11 have an understanding of what drives specific donors to give to a candidate or to a cause. Q. Right. so if a fundraiser or campaign needed to reach beyond those networks, do you purchase 1ists? A. I have never purchased a 1ist, but that's certain1y possib1e for some candidates. Q. Do you know how one wou1d determine the va1ue of a 1ist that was purchased? A. I do not. Q. So in your testimony ear1ier that the va1ue of The Mission Continues 1ist wou1d be in excess of I think it was $600, what qua1ifies you to render that opinion I guess? A. In my persona1 experience, a 1ist that is deveioped and maintained over six years potentia11y, that invo1ves a 1ot of staff work, a iot of just 58 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner detai1s of that re1ationship, the cost, the amount of sa1es I make. Is a donor 1ist sort of a simi1ar function, donor 1ist functions to a campaign simi1ar to the way that a customer or c1ient 1ist wou1d function to a business? Is that a fair assessment? A. Yes. And I can give a good exampie of that. If a candidate 1ike Jason Kander who had a mi1itary background had a 1ist of peopie that were sympathetic to causes invo1ving veterans and the mi1itary, I be1ieve that a candidate 1ike Jason Kander wouid rea11y 1ike to have a 1ist 1ike that avai1ab1e to him. Q. oh, I can imagine. That's certain1y fair to say. Representative Phi11ips sort of touched on this as we11, but it's your understanding that bund1ing is, or I'm ca11ing it secret bund1ing, is or is not sort of a traditiona1 thing to do or does it rea11y just depend on the candidate? A. Bundiing is something that a iot of candidates do at the nationa1 1eve1. Q. Right. A. A donor comes in with a p1edge to raise 250,000. They have five other donors that are going to give 10,000. It is a genera1 thing. But norma11y with federai candidates and with state candidates it's done in the open, it's reportab1e. 60 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner Q. Right. 50 in other words, if I were to say I'm going to raise, I'm trying to think of a candidate, I'm going to raise $10,000 for Jay Nixon, say somebody that's not in the game, I just te11 Jay, okay, I got $1,000 from Sa11y and I got $5,000 from Joe and I got another $2,500 from Missy and another $1,500 from Karen and that's my $10,000 here. But it wou1d be reported to the MEC stop that. That's what we mean by bund1ing so that we're a11 c1ear about the definition? A. Yes. Q. In turn, those checks wou1d go to the Nixon campaign from Sa11y and whatever, Karen? A. Uh?huh. Q. Is that correct? A. Yeah. Q. And then in turn the Nixon campaign wou1d report to the Ethics Commission the $1,000 from sa11y -- I've 1ost track of the names. A. Yes. Q. Each of those individua1 contributions. so a1though the Nixon campaign wou1d know that I was responsib1e for co11ecting those donations or getting them, it wou1d be comp1ete1y transparent to the rest of the wor1d by virtue of fi1ing ethics campaign fi1ings, 61 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner Q. Okay. A. But that they individua11y or through their companies wou1d give directiy to a certain entity 1ike a Q. Instead of the do11ars instead of somebody writing a check to Gina Mitten which I in turn, it wou1d be 1et?s create an LLC, 1et's create Gina Mitten LLC, everybody donates to Gina Mitten LLC and becomes a shareho1der or partner or whatever the corporate structure is and then Gina Mitten LLC gives the $10,000 check; is that how you envision that? A. Yes. Genera11y it's not yeah, it's a freedom group. Q. It's another A. Sure. Q. That's not required to disc1ose I guess it wou1d have to be not a state PAC. It wou1d have to be a federaT PAC. A. I'm not an attorney. I don't know how they do it. Q. I am an attorney and I don't get it honest1y. A. They do it in a way that conceais donors. Q. Right. And the reason why I?m asking that is because was that your understanding of what was going to happen with Monu? 63 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner right? A. Yes, genera11y. REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: For the record, I be1ieve you were a thousand doiiars short of your $10,000 bund1e. REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: I apo1ogize but math has never been my strong suit. I thought that's why I went to 1aw schooi. BY REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Q. when I refer to it as secret bund1ing though wou1d be me saying to the Nixon campaign I probab1y shou1d say me saying to the Greitens campaign I'm going to raise $10,000 and I go to Karen and Sa11y and a11 of those fo1ks and they write a check to me and then I write one check for $10,000. Is that a fair way of sort of putting how that works? A. That's not rea11y how I View that it works. It certainiy can work that way. Q. It's one of doing it A. Sure. Q. to bypass? what's your vision? A. It cou1d be. My view is that it's done when somebody -- In the case before us, I think it was intended to get a group of peopie that didn't want to disc1ose who they were. 62 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner A. Yes. Q. And Mr. Rogers, right, obvious1y? A. It was my understanding that, yes, that Mr. Greitens campaign was going -- they had indicated that they were going to go down that road very ear1y on in the campaign. Q. okay. Now, and I'm sorry to rehash because you may have a1 ready been asked this, but did you have specific conversations did you persona11y have conversations or witness conversations with A1ex Rogers or Monu? A. Monu I did, yes. Q. Okay. Do you remember We11, I guess those conversations wou1d have happened sometime between -- A. January and March of 2015. Right, exact1y. Uh-huh. And then is Monu's name spe11ed M?o-n-u? YES . And his 1ast name is Joseph, J-o-s-e-p-h? Yes. Q. Okay. And then A1ex Rogers on Exhibit 7, page 5 is your entry for A1ex Rogers in your what I wou1d ca11 a ca11 1ist? A. uh-huh. 64 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 25 Mike Hafner Q. You were ca11ing it a ca11 1ist as we11. so that makes it easy. It says that ask for commitment in exp1oratory phase and Hong Kong schedu1e. Does that that refresh your reco11ection as to where Mr. Rogers' neighborhood rea11y was? A. Yes. To my reco11ection, Eric was going to be in Hong Kong at some point and wanted to meet with A1ex, and there are some other e?maiis aiong this 1ine that have been withhe1d. Q. Right. Then is it Mr. Bobak that's the attorney, Mark Bobak? A. Yes. Q. So were you an emp1oyee when you started in January '15 or were you an independent contractor? A. I was a1ways an independent contractor essentiaiiy, but I was paid by Eric either through him or the Greitens Group. I don?t remember what his name was on the check. Q. Then one of your e-mai1s, it?s Exhibit 4, page 2. Letthat. MR. ERNST: Shou1d we put Exhibit 7 away? REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Pardon me? MR. ERNST: Are you done with Exhibit 7? REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: I am, yes. Thank you. I think I am. No guarantees I suppose. 65 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner was what in that bui1ding? A. In the bui1ding that I worked out of from January to March 2015 was a converted home in the centrai west end. Out of that office, out of that office bui1ding, office, housed the Greitens Group and eventua11y Greitens for Missouri. Now, I first met Eric in December of 2013 at the Greitens Group office which was then 1ocated at The Mission Continues office just south of downtown St. Louis. I don't know the exact address. Q. I think that's probab1y where my confusion 1ies. so in 2013 or in December 2013, the Greitens Group officed with TMC, The Mission Continues, but by 2015 the Greitens Group had found its own space separate and apart or physica11y separate from The Mission Continues? A. Yes. Q. And at the time that you started, the on1y entities operating out of that bui1ding in the centra1 west end were the Greitens Group and then u1timate1y Greitens for Missouri? A. Yes. Q. And you don't remember if you were paid by Eric Greitens. the Greitens Group. or Greitens for Missouri? 67 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner BY REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Q. Exhibit 4, page 2 has you marked at Bark1age. so were you a1so emp1oyed there or what was the -- why is there the Bark1age 1090 and e-mai1 string even though it says from your Gmai1 account on this page? A. Right. That was a company that I was affi1iated with. I had been emp1oyed by that company from 2011 on. At this particuiar time, I was sti11 affi1iated I was not being paid by that company. I had my own c1ients. I was sti11 they covered my hea1th care and maybe my ce11 phone. I sti11 had an e?mai1 address. I was not being paid by them at that time, but I was affi1iated with them. Q. Fair enough. You described the offices as this sort of renovated home in the centra1 west end in January '15. And in this bui1ding, right, it was a who1e bui1ding; is that correct? A. It was a three?story converted home. Q. Right. There were emp1oyees of The Mission Continues which I be1ieve was Ms. Knode11 no, I'm sorry, Tay1or? A. There was You're referring to the Greitens Group offices that I worked out of, correct? Q. That's what I'm trying to understand is who was Greitens Group, who was The Mission Continues? who 66 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner A. I know the first month I was not paid for I was not paid by Greitens for Missouri. I was paid the 1ast two months by Greitens for Missouri. The first month I do not reca11 if Eric gave me a check persona11y or if it came from Greitens Group. Q. okay. Do you know if Greitens for Missouri reported any payments to you made in January of 2015 as campaign expenditures? A. I do not be1ieve they did. Q. okay. A. And as an additiona1 point to that, there was another empioyee, Danny Laub, who I was 1ed to be1ieve was a1so being paid by Greitens Group. He was hired sometime before me. I don't know which month. I was 1ed to be1ieve he had been hired in November or December and I was 1ed to beiieve that he was paid by either Eric persona11y or by the Greitens Group. He is a po1itica1 consuitant as we11. We were brought on to do poiiticai oriented tasks. Q. so speaking for yourse1f persona11y. did you ever do any work for the Greitens Group or was a11 of your work during the month of January 2015 affi1iated with the Eric Greitens campaign? A. There's on1y one task there's it's a 1itt1e bit of a tough question to answer. There's a 68 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner coup1e tasks that I had to do that wou1d have fa11en under the Greitens Group umbre11a. One was prepping Eric for a speech that he had at the Manhattan Institute I think it was. It was a brief conversation that I put some research together and gave it to him. I don't know exactiy when that date was. There wou1d have been 1itt1e stuff around the office that wou1d have been under the Greitens I had to move I don't know how many boxes of books they had to the basement of his Q. Loading the books, right? A. of his office. That wasn't a campaign thing. There's 1itt1e stuff 1ike that. Q. Is it a1so fair though that your assistance with Mr. Greitens preparing a speech, even though the money was being funne1ed through the Greitens Group, wou1d a1so sort of fa11 into your ro1e as a po1icy advisor to the extent that what the governor said at his speech impacts your abi1ity to fundraise from a Repub1ican donor 1ist? A. Yes, absoiuteiy. The speech had some major donors that Eric was reaching out to around the same time period and it was a speech based on I beiieve it was veterans statistics. It w0u1d have been in some of the fi1es I turned over. Yeah, it was a 1itt1e memo that I deveioped. 69 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner Q. TMC top 200? A. The TMC donor 1ist was donors that had given over $1,000 to supposediy the charity at the time. Q. Go ahead. A. To c1arify. I did not know Again, I did not know this was a direct property of the charity. The first time that it was indicated that it had come from The Mission Continues was when I was contacted by David Lieb from the Associated Press in October of 2016. He had gotten a copy of the donor 1ist and my name was in the donor 1ist as having accessed it. That was the first time he had apparentiy done some research on the 1ist and iooked in the metadata of the document, rea1ized that it was created by a Mission Continues emp1oyee, and so the first know1edge that I had that it originated from Mission Continues was essentia11y from the reporter who ca11ed me and to1d me. Q. okay. okay. so you start -- Ms. Tay1or, right? A. Yes. She's married. Her name is Proctor now, yes. Q. Ms. TayTor sends you an e-mai1 saying here, here's the four 1ists that we have, right; you take those 1ists, maybe take some of your own data, and the goa1 is to create one sort of master fundraising or 71 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner Q. Right. But again, to the extent that what candidates say in pub1ic can impact A. Yes. Q. their campaign and their fundraising, that ro1e or responsibi1ity as to a speech sort of has a dua1 purpose; is that a fair assessment? A. Yes. Q. okay. Do you know when Greitens for Missouri was actua11y formed? A. I don't know the exact date. I know it was in 1ate February. I a1ways get it confused. I be1ieve it was February 24 or February 25. Q. Okay. A. And I was directiy invoived in he1ping get the papers over to Missouri Ethics Commission. Q. okay. Now I'm trying to go back to notes that I rea11y scribb1ed because I didn't understand some of the answers. Is it fair to say that what happened as far as the fundraising 1ists go, okay, so 1ooking at the e-mai1s and the exhibits, you know. that we've a1ready marked and testified about, basica11y you received a 1ist from The Mission Continues, those top 15 or top 1,000 -- can you he1p me what were those ca11ed? A. It was donors that had contributed. 70 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner donor 1ist -- A. Yeah. Q. -- for this particu1ar candidate and as we discussed ear1ier, sort of how this process works is that that comes from the candidate's own contacts and the va1ue that you bring of data and re1ationships to the tab1e and then possib1y other 1ists; is that sort that's how it works, right? A. Yes, genera11y. Q. Then you take a11 of these different 1ists and combine them into one, combine a'l'l of the information, ah the contact information. There might be tidbits for 1ack of a better term or information about the donor that are in different sources. so say you've got John Doe is on The Mission Continues 1ist as a $1,000 donor to The Mission Continues and you have some notes that he's very interested in veterans issues. John Doe might a1so be 1isted in the top 200 donor 1ist and he's a1so interested in 1abor issues. And you take both entries for John Doe and you might know John Doe from your own persona1 experience and know that. you knowl he 1ikes unicorns and puppy dogs. You'11 take those data points and combine them with one entry for John Doe, he gave to The Mission Continues, he's on the top 200 Repub1ican 1ist and he 1oves unicorns and puppy dogs so that then 72 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner when the candidate makes the phone ca11 they can say thank you for your he1p with veterans, I support your 1abor issues and unicorns and puppy dogs are awesome. Is that a fair assessment of how it works? A. Yes. Maybe not so much the unicorns and puppy dogs. Norma11y it's a kid's name. Q. Trying to be charitab1e for 1ack of a better term. A. Yes. Q. Then in doing that process and coming up with this u1timate 1ist or the u1timate 1ist, 1et's ca11 it that, or I think you refer to it as your campaign p1an or your donor p1an, you're constant1y in contact with the candidate about hey, we have e-mai1s ref1ecting this, I need information, I need to sit down with him so that we can go through just what John Doe does John Doe sti11 1ike unicorns or was my puppy dog information wrong or whatever; is that a fair characterization? A. Yes. It's a continua1 process where you need to get feedback from the candidate who's having those conversations with the donor. Q. Right. or I heard from so and so that John Doe can't stand your opponent so we're going to add that data point or that information to the 1ist? A. Yes. 73 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner computers, were those owned by the Greitens Group to the best of your know1edge or do you have any understanding of that? A. Yes. The office equipment, the Internet at the time was certain1y owned by Greitens Group. I was part of a furniture purchase Q. You don't 1ook 1ike furniture to me. A. a1ong with Danny Laub where they wanted to get a bunch of furniture to put in the second 1eve1, second and third 1eve1 of the bui1ding, and I was invo1ved in that. I be1ieve those expenditures were made through the campaign committee because that was 1ater on. But up unti1 the committee was -- yeah, it was. Q. It was rea11y basica11y the first month or two months. Assuming that Greitens for Missouri was formed in 1ate February of 2015, then from January 1 we'11 say of 2015 unti1 the end of February your day-to-day officing expenses and perhaps your sa1ary were paid for by the Greitens Group? A. Yes. Unti1 -- Q. when I say sa1ary, I guess I shou1d probab1y say compensation just because you were an independent contractor. A. Unti1 the committee was fi1ed, yeah, 75 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner Q. Is that fair? A. Yes. Q. okay. Now, I have a note here and it's probab1y been -- we're probab1y so far down the road you might not remember but I have a note here that says that you didn't add or de1ete anything to the 1ist. Do you mean The Mission Continues 1ist? Do you mean I mean that's what I'm trying to understand what did you mean by that? A. so this is a document that I accessed obvious1y, and I cou1d not reca11 if some of those notes in the co1umn I took myseif or I took from Mr. Greitens and added those. I just don't reca11 that, but these are the same documents that I we11, most of them are the same documents I supp1ied when I was subpoenaed by the MEC. Q. Right. A. None of them have been a1tered in any way since that point certain1y and certain1y before that since 2015 when I was empioyed by Mr. Greitens. Q. okay. And then going back one 1ast time to the sharing of the Greitens Group and the Greitens for Missouri or at 1east the campaign, both the campaign and the Greitens Group fo'lks a'I1 being in one big house, were fo1ks using office equipment, et cetera, the 74 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner everything wou1d have been paid for, you know, desks, Internet, everything by the Greitens Group. Q. Photocopier? A. Obviousiy I departed before the Apri1 quarter1y MEC report was fi1ed so I had no ro1e in that, and I haven't even iooked through it to see if those expense Q. In kind expenditures were reported? A. Yeah, which they shou1d have been if they were used for the campaign. Q. Right. 50 Mark Bobak was an attorney that was emp1oyed by the Greitens Group. Is that or do you know? A. I do not know. My sense was that he was he was. He had a Greitens Group e-mai1 address, but I can't speak to his compensation or anything eise. Q. But he was there in the office bui1ding in the centra1 west end? A. Regu1ar1y. Many times per week. Not everyday but at the minimum two or three days a week. Q. okay. Did he have his own office or desk? REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: I think we're getting in the rea1m of -- if we're going to go down the attorney/ciient rea1m, I think that's a topic for a different day. 76 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Okay. I'm just trying to determine what his ro1e was. REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: I think we can get there. MR. ERNST: I'm okay with questions that don't intrude on the privi1ege. REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Right, I'm not asking about communications, just who is this guy, why is he there. MR. ERNST: We're not getting there yet. As I said before, we don't have an opinion about whether it's privi1eged just because he's an attorney. Out of an abundance of caution, we?re very c1ear. I'm comfortab1e with your question. If I think it's a prob1em, 1'11 voice my concern. REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Thank you. BY REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Q. so did he have 1ike, you know, a desk, an office, his own sort of workstation for 1ack of a better term? A. He had his own desk. I worked out of the same office as him for the duration of this time. Q. By office, do you mean the same room, physica1 room? A. Same room. Our desks were in the same room. 77 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner when you started with Mr. Greitens -- 1et's back up. There are four groups I think we're kind of dea1ing with. we have The Mission continues. we have the Greitens Group. We have Greitens for Missouri. And then a 1itt1e bit 1ater maybe appears New Missouri. So what is your understanding of the purpose mission of The Mission Continues? A. Pure1y a charity, charitab1e organization that he1ps veterans around the country. Q. That's its so1e purpose to he1p the veterans? A. Essentia11y, yes. It?s an organization that he1ps returning veterans find ways to continue to serve their communities. Q. okay. And the Greitens Group, what was its purpose mission? A. The way that I understand the Greitens Group to be more of a PR, marketing, promotiona1 company for Mr. Greitens to he1p book speeches and se11 his books. Q. So wou1d that have been more affi1iated with The Mission Continues then versus his po1itica1? This might be an A, B, or question. A. It's a hard question to answer because the CEO of both was Mr. Greitens. So certain1y there were areas that over1apped within Greitens Group and Mission Continues. For one examp1e they were housed out of the 79 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner And then we moved to the second f1oor sometime in I think 1ate February or maybe mid February. I don't reca11 the exact date on that front. But yeah, I was working in the same room as him. Q. okay. Did you ever have any understanding that he was an attorney for the campaign? A. I don't want to specu1ate. He was a persona1 friend of Eric's too. I didn't know if he was a vo1unteer advisor or if he was getting paid or exact1y what his defined ro1e was, but he certain1y was an advisor to myse1f on po1itica1 issues. Q. But not 1ega1 issues? MR. ERNST: I think we're now straying into the gray area. BY REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Q. But he advised you about po1itica1 issues? A. And campaign re1ated issues. REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Representative Lauer. REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Thank you, Mr. Chair. QUESTIONS BY REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Q. Thank you for being here and mine is probab1y a 1ist of random questions. so it won?t be as chrono1ogica11y 1isted as the others might have been. 78 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner same office. And then during the campaign the Greitens Group and Greitens for Missouri were 1ocated in the same offices as we11. Q. okay. so then 1et's go to Greitens for Missouri. That purpose was what? A. That was for Mr. Greitens' specific campaign for governor. Q. And did that over1ap with Greitens Group in any way 1ike we were just discussing? Did it dovetai1? A. Certain1y in terms of sharing resources and, yeah, sharing resources whether that?s staff or office equipment. Q. Okay. And then the New Missouri, I be1ieve that may have happened after you 1eft or was there a discussion about that when you were there? A. No, no. There was That was we11 after I had departed. Q. okay. so then is it fair to say then that there was a bit of over1ap in a11 of these not rea11y definitive1y c1ear 1ines of where they wou1d -- one starts and one ends; is that fair? A. Yes. Genera11y, yes. Q. okay. Thank you. Thank you for wa1king me through that. It gets a 1itt1e confusing sometimes. A11 right. So when you received on one sixteen I'm 80 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner sorry, one six fifteen the 1ist and in the exhibit on one sixteen that's given to you, the spreadsheet has no identifier on it, no header or tit1e or anything 1ike that. It's pretty generic from that standpoint? Just so I'm fo11owing which? Q. I'm sorry. It's on page 4 of 24 on REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Representative, so you understand, Mr. Hafner in response to the subpoena sent us an Exce1 fi1e and we printed it sideways. The tit1e of it wou1d have been the 1K whatever. REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: So there was a typo on it? REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: In the e-mai1 itse1f it has a name which is Donors Over 1K. I don't have the e-mai1 in front of me there. REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: But the tit1e does not say Mission Continues; is that correct? REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: In that tit1e, the document tit1e there. REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Right. It does in the descriptor. BY REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Q. so when you got the spreadsheet and the e?mai1 saying that it was The Mission continues, that was your understanding of what that spreadsheet was; is that 81 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner itse1f. REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Okay. Thank you. BY REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Q. As part of your job being fundraising, you were given or put together severa1 1ists. Was there a strategic order to how you received those 1ists? Was there 1ike a master 1ist you started with and then added on? How did that work? A. I was so I was supp1ied four 1ists one of the first days I started which is in Exhibit 3 I think this is. And from those 1ists I created a coup1e other documents based on input from Mr. Greitens and going through these 1ists with him. Q. okay. And I be1ieve you said there was one that was from Mission Continues, one from 1arger individua1 donors and one from corporations: is that right? A. There were three tabs in The Mission Continues 1ist, and those were the three tabs, yes. Q. okay. You said that Danny Laub was the campaign manager; is that right? A. I don't know if he had that exact tit1e, but he certainiy was in charge of the campaign. Q. Was he your go to person? A. Yes, yes. 83 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner correct? A. It was my understanding, yes. I did not know where it originated or how it was acquired. Q. A11 right. And when you joined with Mr. Greitens, what was your understanding of the expectation of your ro1e? Was there a written 1ist of your ro1es and responsibi1ities or what was your understanding? A. There was no written 1ist, but I had had more campaign experience than the person that he had working for him whose name was Danny Laub and it was my understanding that I wou1d come on to particu1ar1y he1p with fundraising but aiso to assist in a iot of other areas having to do with campaign issues, po1itica1 issues, he1ping network, introducing Eric around, setting up po1itica1 meetings. REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Let me interrupt one more time about that particu1ar 1ist. we have the actua1 Exce1 fi1e that was sent to us back in the room in which we are keeping the documents and so everyone you can review that in that room. I wouid anticipate that this exhibit is not going to be a part of the report that we re1ease because it is a trade secret. It appears to be a trade secret of The Mission Continues. We're not going We wou1d have a summary of that particuiar exhibit in a report but not the exhibit 82 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner Q. Okay. Did Danny have so1e decision making authority or do you fee1 he had to get fina1 approva1s from Mr. Greitens? A. Yes. He had to get finai approvais on aimost anything. Maybe I'm sure there were some minor things that he did on his own, but everything was directed by Mr. Greitens. Q. okay. Who was the individua1 for 1ack of a better word who was responsib1e for the accounting function meaning where deposits are made and tracked and expenses? A. Ear1y on they put me REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: I'm sorry. Can you c1arify from which entity you're referring? REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: For the entity of which you were working which I guess wou1d be the Greitens Group. Thank you, Mr. Chair. THE WITNESS: So for the Greitens Group, just so I'm c1ear in your question, for the Greitens Group you're wanting to know who was in charge of accounting? REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Right. THE WITNESS: I don't know. I assume Mr. Greitens himse1f in terms of the finances for the company. BY REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: 84 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner Q. okay. In regards to the campaign, who wou1d have been the one responsib1e for fi1ing the reports to Missouri Ethics Commission? A. $0 I don't know the exact date but when Mr. Greitens brought on an individua1 named Jeff Stuerman, Jeff served as the campaign treasurer. Mr. Stuerman was working out of the office. I don't reca11 when he was brought on. I beiieve it was in February but he was brought on to put in a system of reporting procedures and document retention poiicies and other things. He was a former Edward Jones executive and was a persona1 friend of Eric's and Mr. Greitens had brought him in to he1p fi1e the reports and do comp1iance work for the campaign. Q. okay. Thank you. In your work with as we ta1ked about these other groups, more particu1ar1y The Mission Continues and Greitens for Missouri, who was the did you have direct contact with a key individua1 at The Mission Continues? A. No, I did not. Now, as I stated eariier in testimony, I was directed to reach out to somebody that was that I was toid was either a current empioyee or former emp1oyee named Lindsey Hodges, but to my recoiiection I never reached out to her. I certainiy never met with her. 85 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner Q. Greitens for Missouri. okay. when the ethics situation came up, I be1ieve most everybody has ta1ked about the 1ist and it was shown that that may have been an inappropriate use and there was a fine associated with that, was there any discussion ever about any moneys being returned to donors? A. Not to my reco11ection. Q. okay. You mentioned that Mr. Rogers and Mr. Joseph were overseas individua1s? A. I was 1ed to beiieve Mr. Rogers was overseas somewhere, and from the notes it kind of jogs my memory that he was in Hong Kong. Q. And had Mr. Greitens been overseas regu1ar1y to estab1ish those re1ationships? A. so he had bui1t a number of re1ationships based from his time at oxford, and some of those he was uti1izing for campaign purposes. I don't know the exact peop1e. If I went through a11 my notes, it wou1d probab1y jog my memory. But there was certain1y a 1ot of peopie from that. Of course in his mi1itary work too there wou1d have been some officers and things 1ike that that had contacts overseas of course. Q. And to your know1edge, were any of those individua1s, did they make donations outside of the LLCs, and so forth, that we've ta1ked about 87 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner Q. And was Danny Laub the key contact at Greitens Group or who wou1d have been the key contact? A. $0 ear1y on in 2014 when I was serving as essentia11y an informai advisor there was a gentieman named Dave Whitman who was kind of my go?between Eric and myse1f with the Greitens Group. Eric and Dave parted ways in the fa11 of 2014 and then it was Tayior. And moving forward it was Tayior when I was working as a paid advisor from January through March. It was essentia11y that was the go?between between myse1f and the Greitens Group. Q. I appreciate you kind of c1arifying a11 this because there's a 1ot of peop1e, a 1ot of different moving parts here. A. Yes. Q. Then with Greitens for Missouri who was the key contact there? A. Danny was the manager. Q. For Greitens for Missouri? A. At the time, Danny, yeah, Danny certainiy was the 1ead staffer. of course the candidate as we11 directed had the finai say on campaign activities. Q. so any moneys that you generated from donors, your understanding was that it went to which group then? A. The Greitens for Missouri. 86 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner A. The on1y one to my knowiedge Q. outside of the United States? A. The on1y one to my knowiedge that made contributions directiy to Greitens for Missouri was the gent1eman Monu Joseph. Certain1y there was much discussion about A1ex and then some other potentiai donors to the campaign in conversations I had with Monu. Monu mentioned that they had a iot of buddies from Oxford that wou1d probab1y contribute, and I don?t know what happened after I 1eft with those particu1ar donors. Q. I want to go back to the over1apping of the Greitens Group and Greitens for Missouri because you indicated that there was some over1ap because of the Greitens Group being a PR marketing group which cou1d certain1y dovetai1 into campaign, and so forth. So when the moneys were put into Greitens for Missouri, were those moneys to your know1edge ever used for Greitens, the Greitens Group? The reason I'm asking that is because it was unc1ear as to where you were paid from. A. Sure. Q. so I'm trying to identify that. A. Can you repeat the question just so I'm c1ear? Q. sure. You indicated that you weren't c1ear on where you received your paycheck from, thought it might have been from the Greitens Group. If the moneys went 88 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner -- the donor moneys went into Greitens for Missouri, then was there a shift of moneys from Greitens for Missouri into Greitens Group to he1p pay for your expenses and any other campaign expenses? A. I don't beiieve 50. Q. okay. You a1so ta1ked about the transparency and that was something that you tru1y be1ieve in and fee1 shou1d be part of government. Were there any other issues during the time you were with Mr. Greitens that 1ed you to be1ieve that there were other parts that might not be transparent? A. Yes. I think on a maybe not so much in terms of campaign finance but certainiy some of his persona1 background, his history as a member or as somebody that wanted to run for office, a member of the opposing party, there's information 1ike that that I be1ieve he wanted to have conceaied. REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: 1eave that to someone e1se to ask if they want to. Thank you, Mr. Chair. THE WITNESS: I know I was paid by Greitens for Missouri in February and March of 2015. In January I just don't remember what the top of the check said. It was either from Eric persona11y or the Greitens Group. I can go back through my bank records and find 89 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner St. Louis University. Q. And Danny Laub was a1so a student at A. He was. He was I think a coup1e years younger than me. Q. Did you graduate from co11ege? A I did. Q. what was your degree in? A Engiish and business. Q. And how 01d are you now? A I am 32. Q. And Danny is younger than you I assume since he was behind you in c1ass? A. Uh-huh. Q. Is that yes? A. Yes, he is. I don't know how 01d he is. I want to say he's at 1east a coup1e years younger than me. Q. okay. And you said you started with Eric Greitens as a paid advisor in January 2015? A. January 2015 was the first month I was paid for my work for Mr. Greitens. Q. And I think your testimony was is that Eric Greitens re1ied needed he1p to introduce him to GOP donors and activists and re1ied on us. The question is that first did I get you right what you said? I I 91 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner it. I know it wasn't from Greitens for Missouri. I remembered the moment when he handed me the check. BY REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Q. That was in January? A. Of 2015. REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: okay. I appreciate your efforts to try and reca11 a11 this information. Thank you. REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Gent1eman from Greene. REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Thank you, Mr. Chair. QUESTIONS BY REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Q. My name is Kevin Austin, District 136. It sounds to me 1ike when you were reviewing your history that you spent your entire career in po1itics either for candidates or for groups or for individua1 companies; is that correct? A. Correct. And for the 1ast three years now I've been a registered 1obbyist too for a number of c1ients, but I on1y have one 10bbying c1ient right now. Q. It sounds 1ike your career in po1itics actua11y started whi1e you were sti11 in co11ege A. Uh?huh. Q. with Matt B1unt; is that right? A. Yes. Started with Matt in 2004. Q. what co11ege did you attend? 90 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner paraphrased you. If so, who's us? You and Danny? A. Danny certain1y and then there were other consu1tants that I was associated with, Robert Knode11 and David Bark1age. We a11 he1ped introduce Mr. Greitens around to a 1ot of peopie that ended up becoming his inner circ1e too. Q. That may just 1ead into you testified ear1ier about some other consu1tants because of your re1ationship with them is why Mr. Greitens wanted to put your re1ationship on pause with you; is that correct? A. That's how it was toid to me by Danny, Mr. Greitens and Mr. Bobak. Q. Is because these other consuitants, whoever they may have been, were a1so associating or maybe not working for money but associating with other potentiai candidates for governor, 1ieutenant governor? A. Yes. Those individuais were just more direct with Mr. Greitens than there was some other consuitants as we11 that were invoived with Mr. Greitens he1ping him do some of the same things that we were, Dave Hageman and Steve Michaei in particuiar. The consu1tants that I was referring to are ones that I think were just more direct with Mr. Greitens and to1d him that if he did run for governor that they wou1dn't be on board with his campaign. 92 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner Q. It's your be1ief that because of your re1ationship with those consu1tants who are more direct with Mr. Greitens, Mr. Greitens then wanted to have 1ess re1ationship with you? A. That's how it was communicated to me by those three individuais. Q. what three individua1s was that? A. Danny Laub, Mark Bobak and Mr. Greitens, and the specific phrase that they used was they wanted to take a strategic pause on our re1ationship, and I just remember that because I've never heard that phrase before. Q. And that was in March of 2015? A. Yes. Q. And then you started to work for John Brunner in the fa?l'l of 2015, correct? A. Yes. I started working for him as a paid advisor not fa11. In August I be1ieve I'm a1most positive was the first month I was paid by the Brunner campaign. Q. This may have been asked and I apo1ogize if I'm bouncing around twice, but what did you do between March and August of 2015? A. what was I invo1ved with? So at that time I was doing a 1itt1e bit of 1obbying. So that wouid have 93 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner heaith insurance and my phone for sure. I was certain1y affi1iated with them for the 1ast, you know, the number of years before that. My reiationship with them was kind of unique though. I wouid norma11y go and work on other campaigns and sti11 be affi1iated with that firm. So 2014 I went to work for Rick Stream who was running for county executive and I worked direct1y with Rick for that entirety. Our reiationship was kind of was unique. I was a1ways affi1iated with that firm and peop1e sti11 ask. It's po1itics. Q. It sounds 1ike you're an independent contractor for a 1ot of different campaigns and organizations? A. Yes. Q. I'm not trying to do a bad comparison here but 1ike somebody who does construction work? A. Yeswork on a 1ot of different houses? A. Yeah. I had my own LLC. Q. Yeah. If you wou1d, cou1d you go to Exhibit 3. And page 2, back to these attachments, if I understand it right, the first attachment is page 4 through 15; is that correct? A. It's actua11y the fu11 through 24. So 95 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner been unti1 May. And then there was some other c1ients that I had been working with, donor groups. There's a pro business PAC ca11ed the Lewis and C1ark Group that I advised. I advise one of the groups now. At the time there were three of them in St. Louis and Springfie1d and I was doing a 10t of work with those groups of donors. And there's a coup1e other c1ients that I obvious1y income at the time and I had intended to stay with Eric a 1itt1e bit 1onger than March. So I had picked up some extra work with the consu1tants I mentioned ear1ier, Robert Knode11 and David Barkiage, and I can't remember the other ciients that I was working on. I know that there was something eise, maybe a 10ca1 government issue in St. Louis County. There were some other things that I was working for them. Q. And this re1ationship with Bark1age and Knode11 you've been asked about it before because it's on one of your e-mai1s and one of your e-mai1 addresses in fact on Exhibit 3 has it and 1ater it was a Gmai1. This was just referra1s back and forth between you and Bark1age and Knode11 as maybe happens with other consu1tants? A. Yes. Again, at the time I wasn't empioyed directiy by Bark1age and Knode11 but they did cover my 94 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner starting on page 16 it says Attachment No. 2 but this is the other tab. REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: If I cou1d. I can expiain. This is a chairman error in copying. what are 1abe1ed there as Attachments 1, 2 and 3 are the sub tabs of Attachment 1. BY REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Q. so tru1y what we have on pages thank you, Mr. Chair. Tru1y what we have on pages 4 through 24 is just The Mission Continues 1ist? A. Yes. Q. But what a1so threw me off is it 1ooks 1ike tab number 1 is in a1phabetica1 order because it ends with - or on page 15 and then we have a second 1ist 1ooks 1ike it starts in As. A. $0 the second 1ist was organized by it was foundations. so it was organized not necessari1y by individua1 name. It was organized by the name of the overa11 foundation. Q. okay. Maybe 1ead you here. A good idea. Looks to me 1ike we have some tab differences in between individua1s and corporations and that's why we have individua1 A to and then A to for corps? A. Yes. There were three tabs in the document. One for individuais, one for foundations and one for 96 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner corporations. Q. Back to page 2 of Exhibit 3. So the second attachment, this EG Finance Prospects. that's not in pages 2 through 24, correct? A. Correct. That was a 1ist provided by Mason Fink. Mason Fink was a fundraiser that Eric had met. He had done some extensive work for Mitt Romney. And he supp1ied that 1ist that inc1uded a 1ot of nationa1 donors, nationa1 Repub1ican donors. He supp1ied that 1ist to the campaign or to Eric or Tay1or. Q. We go to the fourth 1ist. It says Schweich 1ist and if we 100k up above it says Schweich 1ist-steve Michae1. who is Steve Michae1? A. Steve Michae1 is a consu1tant that works for Dave Hageman at Victory Enterprises. Q. Do you know how this schweich 1ist was obtained? A. I do not. And I do remember 1ooking at that 1ist. we never -- I never went over that 1ist with Eric, but it appeared to be Schweich's interna1 fundraising 1ist. I have no idea how it was acquired. Q. why was it never used? A. It was very, very extensive. It 1ooks 1ike the kind of 1ist that one of the professiona1 fundraisers in our state use, one that has Kit Bond, you 97 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner down it says go to: Sa1esforce.com. what's sa1esforce.com? A. It's a contact management too1 that businesses, peop1e use to he1p manage their contacts and it's a database system for managing your contacts. Q. Software program of some sort? A. Yeah, essentia11y. You can access it on1ine too. You can 109 onto Sa1es Force from anywhere and get your contact 1istExhibit 7, first page and I may have missed this certain'ly too. It says GFM ca'l'l 1ist. what does GFM stand for? A. Greitens for Missouri. REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Thank you, Mr. Chair. REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: Representative Rhoads, are you ready to go or do we need to take a break? REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Representative Lauer needs a break I think. REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: We'11 take a break, go off the record for about ten minutes. (A recess was taken.) REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Back from break. Gent1eman from Howe11. REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: Thank you, 99 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner know, Kit Bond donations, Matt B1unt donations. It was deve1oped over years. And it was just extreme1y, extreme1y 1on9. There was information that just wasn't re1evant to Mr. Greitens campaign just because he wasn't a traditiona1 Repub1ican candidate. Q. And you said, if I understood you right, that you were extreme1y skeptica1 of his conservative viewpoints. when did you arrive at that opinion? A. I'm not sure exact1y when I arrived. I wou1d say from the first time we met with him in December of 2013 it was a1ways before that I had assumed he was a Democrat. Later on, you know, 1ater on we 1earned he was very c1ose with Governor Ho1den and Mayor S1ay and we just everyone a1ways assumed in the circ1es that I ran in that he was a Democrat. So to answer your question at what point, I think from the first meeting we had and certain1y when I worked with him in a paid capacity in January there were many conversations that we had and po1icy discussions and other things that he had to formu1ate certain positions that were essentia11y new to him and had to work through them. So I think kind of answer to your question was I a1ways kind of viewed him with skepticismExhibit 5, p1ease. If we go to 1ike the fourth paragraph we11, third paragraph 98 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner Mr. Chairman. QUESTIONS BY REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: Q. Shawn Rhoads from Howe11 county. one question, were you under -- you say you were a contractor obvious1y. You do contract with various peop1e. Did you have a written contract with Eric Greitens or the Eric Greitens campaign or anything 1ike that? A. I don't reca11 that there was a written contract. We verba11y agreed in December of 2014 that I wou1d be paid $4,000 a month starting in January and I wou1d work out of his office four days a week. But to the best of my reco11ection, we never had any contract Q. I'm sorry to interrupt you. You didn't have any kind of hey, 1ook, this is exact1y what your job is other than a verba1 agreement; is that right? A. To the best of my reco11ection, no, there was no. Q. Is that common practice for you or do you norma11y have contracts with peop1e? A. It is standard practice with a 1ot of consuitants to have contracts with candidates. I certain1y have had some with others, but the campaigns I've been invo1ved with I think were just made in good 100 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner faith agreements with those particuiar candidates. Q. so were they The other good faith handshake verba1 agreements, were they with peop1e that you're more fami1iar with? A. Genera11y, yeah, yeah. Q. okay. And I want to make sure that I'm c1ear on this. 0bvious1y you knew I'm assuming, you can te11 me yes or no, you were aware of what The Mission Continues does? A. Yes. Q. And you were aware that when you got the 1ist where it came from? A. I was not positive where it originated or where it came from or how it was acquired. Q. No one exp1ained to you? A. It was 1isted in the, I forget which exhibit it was. Q. The one with the e-mai1s, correct. A. It was 1isted as The Mission Continues 1ist. when I mentioned with Mr. Greitens to discuss it, they a11 were Mission Continues donors. In the first instance that I knew that it originated or that I was to1d it originated at The Mission Continues was when David Lieb ca11ed me in October of 2016. He said in the metadata of the document it was created by some Mission 101 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner donors and gave me notes on specific donors, and then he wanted me to meet with Lindsey Hodges who I don't know who she was. I don't know if she was an empioyee there or if she was a former emp1oyee. I was 1ed to be1ieve she was deveiopment director at Mission Continues for a time when Eric was CEO of Mission Continues. And that directive was given so Lindsey and I cou1d then go through the 1ist more extensiveiy on donors that Mr. Greitens did not reca11 detaiis of. REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: I think that's it, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Gentieman from St. Louis County. QUESTIONS BY REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON JR.: Q. Good morning. I'm Tommie Pierson Jr., State Representative of the 66th District in North St. Louis County and City. Just a few questions. My questions too may be a 1itt1e out of sequence, but hopefu11y you'11 be ab1e to en1ighten me on some of them. where do most donor 1ists come from? A. $0 genera11y campaigns if you're starting from the beginning they're created from a 1ist of personai contacts first from the candidate, maybe friends and famiiy. You add kind of a prospect 1ist to that of potentia] donors that you want the candidate to reach 103 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner Continues emp1oyee. Q. so you weren't at any point, based on your know1edge and experience in consu1ting, ever thought we shou1dn't be using this 1ist? A. No, it certainiy crossed my mind. Again, I did not know how it was acquired. Q. Gotcha. Did you ever bring that up and say hey, based on my training or my experience doing this, you know, where did we get this from and we want to be right in how we're doing this, did you ever bring that up to Mr. Greitens or Danny or whoever? A. I did To my recoiiection, no, I did not. Certain1y there were some directives given to me at 1ike reaching out to the empioyees of The Mission Continues, which I never did, because I was hesitant to reach out to a charity or former empioyees of the charity to be used for poiiticai campaign, but I never spoke to Eric about using that 1ist. In my mind, one, I did not know how it was acquired and, two, I knew that I wou1d be using that 1ist to make another 1ist to deveioping a ca11 1ist and a fundraising p1an. So it was more of a reference that I was using it for. Q. Did they uti1ize the entire 1ist or just parts of it? A. We went through the who1e 1ist and he seiected 102 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner out to or you reach out to. In a 10t of campaigns and a 1ot of higher 1eve1 campaigns 1ists come from -- there's on1y a few specific fundraising, professionai fundraisers in the state that do this sort of thing. So 1ists are shared between different campaigns and among candidates. Certainiy a 10t of state?wide candidates that have cu1tivated their 1ists, if they've come from a 1ower office to a higher office, they've cuitivated that 1ist over years over e1ection cyc1es. To answer your question more directiy, they come from a number of different sources. Q. when you say "shared," does that often inc1ude compensation? How does that process work? A. We11, among poiiticai candidates, say a fundraising vendor in our state or a fundraiser in our state wi11 have a coup1e c1ients each cyc1e. They wi11 have a master 1ist that they work off of. Maybe they just add another coiumn on the side of it and that's for a specific candidate and they work through that 1ist name by name and they're higher 1eve1 donors or donors that the candidate needs to soiicit because they cou1d give at an increased 1eve1. For a fundraiser, they wi11 have cu1tivated a 1ist 1ike that over years over e1ection cyc1es and they'11 work off of the same 1ist for mu1tip1e candidates. So when I say shared, that's 104 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner kind of what I mean. Norma11y a candidate wou1d not give his or her own fundraising 1ist to another candidate that they don't know. A iot of that sorry. Q. so if I were to hire you knowing your past connections with past candidates, wou1d I hire you knowing that you wou1d bring a 1ist with you? A. Certain1y with the connections that I've bui1t with donors and others over time, that's why peopie hire specific fundraising vendors, specific fundraisers in the state. Yes, they bring a10ng those connections, that network. A1ong with that wou1d come a contact 1ist norma11y. To answer your question further, different offices have a different donor base, of course. Many donors that are interested in a state-wide state 1eve1 race wou1dn't be interested in a federai race, vice versa. There's different -- obvious1y, you know, there's a mi11ion different reasons why peop1e contribute. Q. SO in 1ooking at a coup1e of the specific 1ists, and I be1ieve it's the 1ist from Exhibit 3, page 2, if I start with the Schweich 1ist, you did not use that 1ist; is that correct? A. I remember opening that fi1e and reviewing it at 1east one time, but no, I did not work off that 1ist 105 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner FNCE Prospects? A. uh-huh. Q. The source of that 1ist was Mason Fink; is that correct? A. At the time that this was sent to me, to my reco11ection I did not know who Mason Fink was. It was 1ater described that he was a Romney fundraiser from 2012, had a iot of nationa1 contacts and was he1ping Eric in some capacity. The e?mai1 that you see that's designated as Mason Fink's 1ist, I was 1ed to beiieve that he created it; that I remember when opening it it had a 10t of donors that were viewed as nationa1 1eve1 type donors that contributed to races across the board, and I was 1ed to beiieve that that was his personai fundraising 1ist. I don?t know why -- but I don?t know when he gave it to the campaign or anything eise. My first contact with it obvious1y was when Tay1or e?maiied that 1ist to me. Q. But you wou1d say it was a 1ist of va1ue? A. Yes, absoiuteiy. Q. Did you know if there was compensation given to Mason Fink for this 1ist? A. I do not, no. Q. or do you know if there was or if it was given in an in kind fashion? 107 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner with Mr. Greitens. Q. And I be1ieve you stated the primary reason was just difficu1t to work with? A. A 1itt1e bit. It was a very, very extensive 1ist. It was kind of hard to read because there was I don't know how many I mean tens of co1umns in it. It was just kind of difficu1t to work off of. And I know it was deveioped by a professiona1 fundraiser. I don't know who. And usua11y peopie have their own system when they're working with 1ists. I have my own. I know others do too. It just wasn't usefu1 to us. P1us, at the time Tom Schweich was running for governor too, and obvious1y you don?t want to have a candidate reach out to donors of your opponent. It's just not a professionai thing to do. so I never uti1ized that 1ist when I was there. Q. Do you know if anyone do you have any know1edge of that Schweich 1ist being used subsequent1y not by you? A. I do not have any knowiedge of that. It cou1d have been, but I do not know. Q. Okay. Do you know the origin of the Schweich 1ist? A. I do not. I do not. Q. one of the other 1ists is referenced as EG 106 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner A. I do not know that. Q. Lindsey Hodges, you stated you did not meet with her: is that correct? A. No. I never met with her regarding the 1ist. There was one person that came into the Greitens office one time and I don't reca11 if it was her or not. I want to say that it might have been, but I certain1y never met with her about fundraising or The Mission Continues 1ist which is what I was directed to do. Q. so even though you were directed to perhaps use her as a resource, you chose not to? A. Yes. And I don't remember but I don't remember the reason why I chose not to. I just don't reca11. Q. Do you reca11 meeting anyone e1se direct1y re1ated to The Mission Continues? A. Other than -- yes. There were a number of 1eveis. one, the individua1 that I was working with through most of 2014, Dave Whitman worked out of The Mission Continues office and the Greitens Group office and they were 1ocated at the same p1ace. You cou1d say he was re1ated. Then there was board members, peop1e 1ike Tim Noonan I be1ieve, I was 1ed to beiieve was a board member at Mission Continues or was very active at 108 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner Mission Continues. Tim was in the Greitens office a coup1e of different times and I met him. So yes, I did meet peop1e that were invo1ved with the charity and I was 1ed to be1ieve were sti11 invo1ved with the charity. Q. I think you stated there was a meeting on January 7 where you went through a Mission continues donor 1ist. who was invo1ved in that meeting? A. So there were two meetings that we had specifica11y dea1ing with fundraising. I know the ca1endar invites are in the exhibits. Eric and I were invo1ved in both meetings. I don't reca11 the other peop1e there. I wou1d 1ike to say Danny Laub was in at 1east one of those meetings too. I just know Eric and Mr. Greitens and I were invo1ved in both of those meetings. Q. In those meetings there were specific Mission Continues 1ists that were reviewed? A. Yes. Q. Did you ever get a chance to 100k through the MEC 1isting? A. At this time or in the past? Q. Right. I know we had a 1itt1e break. I didn't know if you had a chance to go back and go through it. A. Not rea11y. I g1anced through it a 1itt1e 109 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner don't have any direct know1edge of her time in Mission Continues, though. Q. so she's a former emp1oyee of The Mission continues? A. As I understand, yes. Q. And it's your understanding that after, I forget the gent1eman's name, I think we11, 1et me ask who was the person that she rep1aced at the Greitens Group? A. A gent1eman named Dave Whitman. Q. That was the name. And she came on to the Greitens Group around what time frame? A. I don't know the exact dates. I do know she was present at a number of strategy meetings and other po1itica1 meetings that we he1d with Mr. Greitens in 2014. I don't know the exact time that I met her, but I know she was present in a coup1e of those. And she, as I understand, took over Dave Whitman's ro1e whenever they separated -- whenever Dave Whitman and Mr. Greitens separated sometime in the fa11 of 2014. Q. And did you know Mr. Greitens outside of the office? A. In terms of? Q. Just if you had a persona1 re1ationship with him? 111 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner Q. Did anything fami1iar jump out at you? A. Certain1y there's some payments REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Representative, you're inquiring about Monu Joseph? REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON: Yes. THE WITNESS: Yes. There is an entry on 3/9/2015, two entries, one from Gray Arch Income Property and one from Monu Joseph. Both of those were from him. And there are documents proving that, but they've been withhe1d. BY REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON JR.: Q. I know A1ex Rogers was another name that we ta1ked about. were you aware of any LLCs that perhaps were set up by that individua1? A. I am not aware. I do know again there is some e-mai1 traffic regarding invo1vement and how much he wou1d raise, but those have been withhe1d. Q. Tay1or, when you first met her who did she work for? A. The Greitens Group. Q. Do you know who she -- anything about her former emp1oyment history? A. Just from just from what I know from LinkedIn that she used to work at Mission Continues. I 110 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner A. Yeah. We'd grab 1unch together. We never rea11y hung out or anything, but we'd grab 1unch together a number of occasions. Certain1y I drove him down here for a series of meetings in January of 2015 to meet with e1ected officia1s and some other Repub1ican activists. So yeah, I knew him outside, certain1y outside of the Greitens Group office. Q. what kind of person wou1d you describe him to be? A. Extreme1y ambitious and driven. A guy that doesn?t 1ike to 1ose at anything. somebody that gives 100 percent and is very ca1cu1ating and se1f?aware of how he comes across. REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Just a few additionai questions. FURTHER QUESTIONS BY REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Q. How much were you paid in January of 2015? A. $4,000. Q. Do you reca11 the name of The Mission continues emp1oyee who created the 1ist? You mentioned a coup1e times metadata. Do you reca11 the name of that emp1oyee? A. I do not. The first time I heard the name was 112 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner with the investigator from the MEC when I testified there and she had asked if I knew this person. I don't reca11 the name. Q. You testified ear1ier you be1ieve the computers were owned by the Greitens Group. Do you have first?hand know1edge of that of who purchased those computers? Were the computers there when you showed up at the office? A. At that time we on1y used our 1aptops. There was other office equipment, printers and things 1ike that. Q. Your own persona1 1aptop? A. I did. Q. And Tay1or's computer, when you arrived to work there, was her computer a1ready there? A. Yes. Q. And you don't know who paid for her particu1ar computer, do you? A. NO. Q. Mr. Greitens, did he have his own computer at the time you arrived? A. Yes, it was a 1aptop, a Mac. Q. You don't know who purchased that particu1ar computer? A. No. 113 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner Mr. Brunner by the name of Ji11 Nob1e. Ji11 overheard a 1ot of the contents of the first phone ca11 between Mr. Greitens and Mr. Brunner. In that phone ca11, according to an affidavit that Ji11 had signed, Mr. Greitens was extreme1y irate with Mr. Brunner, cha11enged him to come down to his boxing and used some curse words. I don?t reca11 the exact 1anguage of the affidavit. I can certain1y supp1y it if needed. But because of that first phone ca11 and Ji11's experience, the decision was made I assume by her to record the second phone ca11 that Mr. Greitens made to Mr. Brunner. That phone ca11 ended up making its way to the press by somebody in our campaign. And after that phone ca11 made its way to the press, Mr. Greitens went on the Mark Reardon Show on KMOX in St. Louis and said that Mr. Brunner wasn't taking responsibi1ity for his actions, that he 1acked the courage to come here and sit down with Mark and face him and address questions about the situation. And what Eric said at that time was that he was going to run a positive campaign; that the campaign he was going to run was going to be transparent that you cou1d see his donors and that essentia11y he was going to run a c1ean fu11y transparent campaign. At that time, of course, I was under an NBA. The first time I spoke about any of this was to Missouri 115 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner . The campaign paid for furniture? Yes. Is that an ordinary campaign expense? Is what? Is that an ordinary campaign expense? For a state?wide campaign I think you cou1d make the argument that it is. Q. In your invo1vement with the campaign, did you witness Mr. Greitens pub1ic1y promise to run an open and transparent campaign? A. Yes. Q. Were there particu1ar occasions on which? A. Yes. A particu1ar one that comes to mind in 1ate fa11 of 2015, Mr. Greitens was very upset that a web video had been re1eased. I don't reca11 the topic of the web video. But it was questioning his conservative credentia1s. As a resu1t of that, he made a series of two phone ca11s to John Brunner when John was in Kansas City for a campaign event. There was a staffer who was with John Brunner at that time. Q. Were you working for the Brunner campaign at this time? A. I was at that time. Q. okay. continue. A. There was a staffer who was in the car with 114 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner Ethic Commission. of course at that time when Mr. Greitens had that interview, I knew that that wasn't the case at a11 because I had had conversations with peop1e associated with him in January and February and March when I was emp1oyed and working out of that office that I knew that I was 1ed to be1ieve that they were p1anning that they were p1anning on concea1ing donors in some way or having peop1e associated with on their campaign having staff associated with on their campaign reach out and coordinate donors who wou1d be operating to the contrary of what Mr. Greitens to1d Mark Reardon on his show. Q. And I have one more question and 1'11 a11ow other members to ask additiona1 questions as we11 if you have some additiona1 ones. You testified ear1ier that Mr. Greitens in the course of meeting with you wou1d have to this is a quote I wrote down formu1ate positions that were new to him. can you exp1ain that? A. There was at 1east one session that we did just a genera1 about different questions that he wou1d probabiy get in a Repubiican primary, things having to do with socia1 positions, say pro?1ife issues or guns, Second Amendment, or education. And during that session there was at 1east one that I remember in particuiar that he had to work through where he stood 116 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner on these particuiar issues, issues that you wou1d get with a 1ot of Repubiican primary voters. So it kind of 1ed me it kind of reinforced what I aiready knew that, one, this whoie new process as a candidate, of course, was new to him but, two, he wasn't coming from a phiiosophica1 benchmark on his po1itica1 positions. And he had met with some other peop1e that we introduced him to throughout 2014 but there was a person that we coordinated Mr. Greitens and her to meet, name was Jennae Neustadt, ended up working at the governor's office for him. she he1ped him a 1ot with po1icy formuiation. There was a iobbyist as we11 invo1ved in that, Shawn Ferry (phonetic spe11ing) and John Lamping. Those three heiped him formuiate his conservative positions during that same time period in January, February, March January and February in particu1ar of 2015. Q. what do you mean formu1ate? A. Come up with answers that wou1d be -- come up with answers that wou1d be acceptabie to a Repub1ican primary voter. Q. whose answers were they when they were formu1ated? REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: I'm sorry? BY REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: 117 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: Thank you. FURTHER QUESTIONS BY REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: Q. I'm gathering you're a strong Repub1ican? A. Yes. Q. I assume you have been a11 of your young 1ife? A. I?ve a1ways been a Repubiican. Q. As a contract po1itica1 advisor, have you ever worked for a Democrat? A. No, never as a never as a paid. Q. How were you approached by the Greitens peop1e about coming on board with them initia11y? A. $0 I had a mutua1 friend who had known Eric from a number of years ago. His name was Ty1er Ho1man, somebody I'm sti11 friends with. At the time in 2013, we had started to hear rumors that Mr. Greitens was 1ooking to run for office as a Repub1ican. We weren't entireiy sure which office he was p1anning on running for. It was mere1y just rumors. Ty1er had set a meeting up between myse1f, David Barkiage, Mr. Greitens and Dave Whitman. He actua11y gave me I can't remember how the initia1 meeting or initia1 outreach happened. Either I contacted Dave or Dave contacted me. From that initia1 meeting, from that initiai outreach, we met we then met at the Greitens Group office which was iocated where The Mission Continues 119 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner Q. whose answers were they when they were formu1ated? A. I was not in the sessions with Jennae, John Lamping and Eric, but I know that when I was working with him in the sessions that he and I wou1d ta1k through them together and where the base was on a particu1ar issue, you know, what the genera1 conservative voter wouid genera11y hear from a candidate that's running for a high office in the state. so certain1y myse1f, Mr. Greitens and Mr. Bobak as we11 wou1d have been invoived in that particu1ar session that I'm speaking about right now. Q. In your experience, is that typica1 for a candidate to have to be exp1ained such positions? A. Usua11y when you decide to run for a particuiar party you a1ready know the p1atform of that party. Mr. Greitens was not rea11y fami1iar with those issues. With that said, with candidates you a1ways work through messaging points and he1p them deve1op a concise message on particu1ar issues. REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Is there anyone e1se who has further questions? try and go in order. REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: I wou1d 1ike to. REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Yes, sir. Representative Phi11ips. 118 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner office was 1ocated and that was in December of 2013. So the initiai outreach happened because we had a mutua1 friend, Ty1er Hoiman. And we had been to1d at the time that Mr. Greitens was receiving advice from Ed Martin who was I be1ieve at that time the current Repubiican party chairman. And again, we had been to1d then that Ed was trying to engineer a deai with Mr. Greitens and himseif that Ed wou1d provide support, network and he1p for Eric in exchange for Eric agreeing to Ed that he wou1d run his governor's race in 2016. And we were 1ed to beiieve that Eric was very uncomfortabie with that arrangement, and that was kind of when we were brought into the picture. And our first meeting occurred in December of 2013. Q. okay. so you were contacted by the Greitens campaign. You didn't contact the Greitens campaign; is that what your testimony is? A. I don't reca11 the initia1 outreach whether it was me to Dave Whitman or Dave Whitman to myse1f, but I do know that Ty1er Ho1man was the one that put us both in touch. Q. You being a 1ife 1ong Repub1ican and an interest in seeing the party succeed and having know1edge that Mr. Greitens was a Democrat for an 120 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner apparent1y good whi1e, why in the wor1d wou1d you go to work for him? I don't understand your desire to even be emp1oyed by him. A. We11, certain1y when you come across a candidate that had a resume that he did it makes for a powerfu1 narrative. It was a great candidate profi1e. Somebody who had served in the mi1itary that ran a respectab1e organization, and on the surface on paper it is certain1y it certain1y presents itse1f as a great profi1e for a potentia1 candidate for office. I wanted to be1ieve A 1ot of candidates have conversions in be1iefs, and I certain1y wanted to be1ieve that his was sincere. And at the time I didn't know what his true intentions were. Later on in 2014 it was a1ways kind of -- we were a1ways kind of 1ed to be1ieve that he was 1ooking at either governor or 1ieutenant governor. At the time I had done a 1ot of work for Lieutenant Governor Peter Kinder. In a very, very sma11 circ1e I had known that the 1ieutenant governor wasn't going to run for re?e1ection. I had no idea that he'd end up running for governor. At the time I knew that he wasn't p1anning on running for re-e1ection. I did be1ieve that Eric cou1d have made great 1ieutenant governor for the state, and it's a job that gives him a natura1 segue into Repub1ican party 121 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner Repub1ican party donors. Q. He's a rising star in a resume, but yet you knew that the odds of him becoming governor were s1im. And then you knew on day one, if I understood your testimony right, when you first met with Governor Greitens that you were very skeptica1 then about whether or not he tru1y was a Repub1ican; is that right? A. Maybe the right word isn't very skeptica1, but certain1y I approached the meeting with some skepticism because up unti1 this point we didn't Q. From the Repub1ican candidates that you had worked with in the past, he was vast1y different. I think we a11 agree on that. A. Yes. Q. So I guess the part that I'm wondering about is why again wou1d you stay there? why wou1dn't you bow out ear1y if you sensed this is not going to work out? You don't even have to answer that one. But how 1on9 of a span was there from the time you departed Greitens campaign and became invo1ved in the John Brunner campaign? How many months was that or weeks? A. The first time it was August when I first was paid by John Brunner, the first time I did any sort of substantia1 work. There might have been some things -- 123 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner po1itics because of his veterans background and the 1ieutenant governor is veterans advocate and so he cou1d use that office to kind of prove that he had these conservative credentia1s that he said he did and a1so he1p bui1d the party and network and make sure that he was bui1ding these re1ationships with peop1e around the state. 0bvious1y that advice wasn't heeded at a11. But I went to work for him because I be1ieved in him. I be1ieved that the conversion was sincere and I didn't I a1so didn't know at the time the extent of how he met with senior Democrat officia1s in Washington, D.C. in 2008 or 2010; that he active1y tried to get them to recruit him to run for office at that time. I didn't know about the web domains he took out in 2008 or 2010, the Greitens for President and the Greitens for America, the Greitens for Governor. I had no idea about any of those web domains. A 1ot of that I 1earned 1ater on. Initia11y I certain1y be1ieved in him and that's why I wanted to he1p him. Q. Ear1ier I think you testified that you were doubtfu1 that, I'm putting that word in the sentence, I don't think that's exact1y what you said, I think what you meant was you were doubtfu1 about the odds of him becoming governor; is that right? A. Yes. Yes, he was a virtua1 unknown to 122 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner I knew the peop1e that were running his campaign. There were some guys out of Springfie1d who had been in charge of it. There rea11y wasn't much that I wou1d have done before August, though. August was when I started fu11 time. Q. Were you in communication with his campaign at anytime whi1e you were his campaign or him or his peop1e whi1e you worked for Eric Greitens? A. I was not invo1ved. I was not in communication with John Brunner at a1]. I had met him brief1y a coup1e times before that but had never spoke to him about emp1oyment or anything e1se. Now, the peop1e that I was associated with, some other consu1tants, which is why the separation between Mr. Greitens and myse1f happened, they were in communication with John on some issues but it wasn't me direct1y with John Brunner, but I don't know and I?d have to I just don't know and I don't know if they were -- I don't think they were getting paid at that time either by Mr. Brunner. I think, as consu1tants do a 1ot, I think they were in communication with a number of different candidates. The peop1e I mentioned, Robert Knode11 and David Barkiage, I know David had a number of conversations with Catherine Hanaway too. That's just kind of a, yeah, standard operating procedure for some 124 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner consu1tants. REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: I'm good. Thanks. REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Representative Lauer. REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Yes, sir, just a few questions. Thank you, Mr. Chair. FURTHER QUESTIONS BY REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Q. when you were ta1king about his demeanor about being contro11ing and ambitious and se1f?aware, and so forth, what was he 1ike as use the term office manager? Working with him in the office, what was that 1ike? A. Very structured. I didn't rea11y meet with him. There were times that I wou1d come into the office to ask him a question or something 1ike that. I didn't meet with him to discuss a particu1ar issue un1ess there was a schedu1ed time on the ca1endar to. so extreme1y very structured. Q. You spent four days a week in the office, is that right, that was part of the agreement? A. Yes. And maybe some weeks it was just three days. Genera11y our agreement was four days and most weeks it was. Q. During the time you were there, even though 125 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner Pub1ic Library in March, in ear1y March 2015, and he wanted me to reach out to a number of 10ca1 po1itica1 peop1e to invite them. I did. So in terms of overiap between Greitens Group and the promotiona1 stuff, there was 1itt1e stuff 1ike that that I did. Q. With you being the fundraiser and him asking for po1itica1 guests to come, one might think there was an association there of trying to get donor money? A. Sure, abso1ute1y. Q. A'l'l right. And then I just want to go back to the campaign itse1f and we were ta1king about transparency ear1ier. Were there things that you were to1d that were not transparent or to be concea1ed that wou1d have impacted his campaign? A. So he had me sign an NBA the first day that I was working out of the office. So it was expected that I wou1dn't discuss probab1y confidentia1 information with anybody un1ess compe11ed to. But in terms of other things that he wanted to concea1, I think there was a 1ot that he didn't want information to get out on. And take, for instance, say 0p Re fi1es or things 1ike that. Q. I'm sorry? what? A. Opposition research fi1es or fi1es where you do an assessment on a candidate running and you assess 127 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner you may not have had contact with him, was there any sort of indication as to how he might be managing that? A. $0 at the time he was a1so he a1so had a book 1aunch that he was preparing for. Mr. Greitens is somebody that's, 1ike I said, is very structured and, you know, he was a motivationa] speaker, motivationa1 1eadership speaker as we11. A 1ot goes into that especia11y with him. There's a 1ot of rehearsa1s and things 1ike that that he goes through. There's a process to everything that he does. So he was focused on other things as we11 and not just po1itics at that time is what I'm trying to answer. Q. So when you were working with him as part of the Greitens Group I assume, then were you invo1ved in any of the initiatives regarding his book or The Mission Continues as far as veterans, the book, the PR things? How did that a11 work? A. That was very, very 1imited of what I was invo1ved with. They invited me to the book 1aunch that they had in St. Louis and they wanted me to invite a bunch of po1itica1 peop1e to it, which I did. Q. what was the purpose of that? A. It was the re1ease of his 1atest book ca11ed Resi1ience, and there was an event at the St. Louis 126 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner their vu1nerabi1ities, something 1ike that, or maybe a background information on his -- other background information on his past or Certain1y, yeah, certain1y there's other information that I think he wou1d have wanted to concea1. Q. what were the terms of the confidentia1ity agreement? A. I don't have it in front of me. I know it was quite extensive. REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: If I might, Representative, we have I be1ieve the agreement was provided to us. It's not in the packet that was put together. REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Thank you. I'm done. THE WITNESS: A1so just to add to my ear1ier answer, another thing is our sessions that we had, things where we were he1ping him with his positioning and the Repub1ican p1atform and our conversations. There's a 1ot of things 1ike that that they didn't want to ever share or 1et out in the pub1ic. REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: I rea11y appreciate you being so forthcoming and making sure we're very c1ear on that. Thank you. REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Representative Austin. REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Thank you. 128 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner FURTHER QUESTIONS BY REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Q. so you had an NDA with Eric Greitens, correct? A. I did. Q. Did you have an NDA with John Brunner? A. No. Q. Have you ever signed an NDA with any other candidate that you worked for? A. To my knowiedge, no. Q. You testified that Ji11 Nob1e signed an affidavit. Under what circumstances wou1d she be signing an affidavit or asked to sign one? A. There was a situation. It was I beiieve it was the same interview that Mr. Greitens had with Mark Reardon, and in that interview Mark Reardon said that they, in terms of the Brunner campaign, said that there was an eariier phone ca11 that precipitated the phone ca11 that ended up in the media. Eric, after Mark said that, said that is a 1ie from them. I don?t know the exact quote. He said that is a 1ie from them, Mark, that is an absoiute 1ie. The reason the phone ca11 was recorded in the first p1ace was because the first phone ca11 was of a pretty threatening nature. I guess the ca1cu1ation was made in the car at the time that they wanted to have a record of the second phone ca11. And from that phone ca11 John, I 129 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner that I create, 1ike I say, a fundraising p1an, copy that as a temp1ate and use for other candidates. Q. can you say the same for other campaigns you've worked on, you've kept their documents too; is that what you've done? A. Yes. obvious1y I never expected them to be subpoenaed and produced to many different agencies and everything. Q. Okay. A. Yes, I genera11y save and organize a 1ot of fi1es that I work on for other candidates. Q. You wou1d have documents from the Brunner campaign when you worked on that. You?d have documents from -- and I forgot who e1se you said you worked for. A. Kurt Schaefer. Q. Yeah. Kurt Schaefer. You'd have documents from their campaigns too? A. Absoiuteiy. Rick Stream, Peter Kinder, yeah, a 1ot of 1oca1 candidates I worked on as we11. REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Thank you. REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Representative Rhoads. REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: Nothing e1se. REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON: Nothing, Mr. Chair. FURTHER QUESTIONS BY REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Q. one fina1 question. Do you be1ieve it's in 131 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner think if I remember correct1y, Ji11 had sent the phone ca11 to John. John then sent it to a group of campaign peopie and it got out. I was not the one that 1eaked it. Kevin McDermott from the Post ca11ed me when I was in Troy, Missouri and said he had a copy of it and then I had to deai with it. It was not a fun thing because it made both candidates 100k rea11y bad. Anyways, the affidavit was signed as a response to Mr. Greitens? c1aim that we were 1ying about that, and we issued the affidavit p1us produced John's phone records showing the phone ca11s made from Eric to John. Q. And regarding the documents that are the subject of the subpoena you received from this Committee, why did you keep those documents? A. so it's rea11y just a personai thing. I save a 1ot of stuff. I organize it in my fi1es and up unti1 the subpoenas obviousiy the donor 1ists and a iot of this information I never gave to the Brunner campaign. I was sti11 under an NDA unti1 the MEC subpoenaed me on a 1ot of this information. But why I he1d onto it, obviousiy it wasn't used poiitica11y in the primary for John. I doubt they knew any of this stuff even existed. But I he1d onto it just because it's something I do. I cata1og stuff. I save it. And if there's documents 130 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner your financia1 interest to be here today? A. No, not at a11. Q. The opposite? A. Yeah. As I said, my c1ients don't know that I'm here, and I'm here to produce the documents under subpoena. Yeah, it's not my decision to be here. REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Thank you. Thank you for your testimony. Can we excuse this witness? Thank you. (witness excused.) REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Let's take a short break whi1e they go to the door. we?re back. so the first motion I wi11 make is to send notice of a meeting for to ciose a meeting schedu1ed from Friday, March 23 in this 1ocation at 10:00 a.m. Mr. Secretary, p1ease ca11 the r011. SECRETARY CURCHIN: Chairman Barnes. REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: wait a second. So we're going to do 10:00 a.m. on Friday? REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Un1ess you want to be here at 8:00 a.m. on Friday. REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: I have an 8:30 a.m. appointment. see if I can reschedu1e that. REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Let's do noon. Let's do noon. That's easier for everyone. 10:00 a.m. makes 132 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 25 Mike Hafner you 1eave at 6:00 a.m. Actua11y 1et's do 12:30 so everyone can eat 1unch somep1ace other than here. REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Thank you, Mr. chair. REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: I now move to ciose the hearing for 12:30 p.m. next Friday, March 23, at this same 10cation. Mr. Secretary, piease ca11 the r011. SECRETARY CURCHIN: Chairman Barnes. REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Aye. SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative Phi11ips. REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: Aye. SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative Mitten. REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Aye. SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative Lauer. REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Aye. SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative Austin. REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Aye. SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative Rhoads. REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: Aye. SECRETARY CURCHIN: Representative Pierson. REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON: Aye. REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: By your vote seven aye, zero no to ciose the meeting next Friday, 12:30 p.m. I now move that the Committee authorize a subcommittee of myse1f, Representative Austin and 133 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: if not a signed deciaration on the day that we go down there. Further discussion on said motion? REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON: And he wi11 be, of course, under oath? REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: when we have him without the speciai dispensation, he?s not going to be. REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON: So he's not under oath without the specia1 dispensation? REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: This is just an initiai meeting to see if he has information re1evant to the investigation. REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: An informa1 interview. REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: It is an informai interview to determine whether we need a formai interview to go through the process of getting a court reporter into the federai penitentiary in Springfieid. REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: But it's a1so possibie -- Mr. Chairman, if I might just reiterate. I think think it's aiso possibie that if the subcommittee be1ieves that there is some information that cou1d be obtained by way of a sworn affidavit that we cou1d just get then and there, that's another possibi1ity. REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Yes. Our intent is to report back to the Committee rather than go through this 135 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner Representative Mitten to interview Mr. David Whitman who is currentiy iocated at the federai penitentiary in Springfieid, Missouri and for whom recording devices are not aiiowed into those interviews except with specia1 permission of the warden which I be1ieve we can get but I think that's a somewhat process. At this point in time I think it wou1d behoove us to go have a conversation first before deciding whether it makes sense to have a court reporter there to take it down. Any discussion on that motion? REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: So it cannot be recorded in any fashion? REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: You are prohibited from Un1ess you have speciai dispensation from the warden, you are prohibited from being recording devices into the faci1ity. REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: HOW wou1d that be recorded? REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: we wi11 come back to the Committee with a summary of what he teiis us in that meeting and potentia11y if he has reievant information for our Committee then we wi11 f0110w up with a recorded Statement of some sort if not -- REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: A request for speciai dispensation. 134 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner process where we have to get the warden's speciai permission and then -- I don't know if a11 of us cou1d even get in there for this purpose. My understanding from speaking to the pubiic information officer in the is that they?ve never had anything 1ike this done which shouid not be surprising. There?s never been a committee of the Missouri House to interview a witness at the federa1 penitentiary in Springfie1d, Missouri. REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: They've had 1awyers there depose. REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: They've had 1awyers there. But the question is there are so many of us. They're nine peop1e to come in, bring a recording device. That presents a different sort of thing that they've never done before. REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Something they?re not iogisticaiiy prepared for. REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: They're not iogisticaiiy prepared for. So I now move that the Committee grant permission to Representative Austin, myseif and Representative Mitten and I beiieve Mr. Curchin is going to be with us for said interview on Friday. So I now move. SECRETARY CURCHIN: Chairman Barnes. 136 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 21 22 23 24 25 Mike Hafner REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Aye. SECRETARY CURCHIN: Phi11ips. REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: Aye. SECRETARY CURCHIN: Mitten. REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Aye. SECRETARY CURCHIN: Lauer. REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Aye. SECRETARY CURCHIN: Austin. REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Aye. SECRETARY CURCHIN: Rhoads. REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: Aye. SECRETARY CURCHIN: Pierson. REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON: Aye. REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Fina11y, there is some question about this Committee's authority to issue a subpoena to force either a Mr. Dan Laub or anyone associated with The Mission Continues in Manhattan to appear before us here in Missouri. One potentiaT soTution to that is to take a deposition. There?s a statute that authorizes the speaker to deputize a member or even a non member to take a deposition for any purpose to be used in the House of Representatives. So I want the Committee to vote on said authorization if necessary to interview Mr. Laub or someone from The Mission Continues for that Timited purpose. 137 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner voting on? REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Yes. And my inc1ination it wou1d be myseTf and perhaps another member of the Committee if someone eTSe woqu choose to do so. The same is true for Mr. Laub who I beTieve is in Virginia at this point. REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: I just want to make sure I know what I'm voting on. Aye. REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: That was an aye. was that an aye? REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: Yeah. SECRETARY CURCHIN: Lauer. REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: Yes, indeed. SECRETARY CURCHIN: Austin. REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN: Aye. SECRETARY CURCHIN: Rhoads. REPRESENTATIVE RHOADS: Aye. SECRETARY CURCHIN: Pierson Jr. REPRESENTATIVE PIERSON: Aye. REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: By your vote of seven ayes, zero nos, you have approved the motion. That ends today's hearing. (Off the record.) 139 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner REPRESENTATIVE LAUER: He woqu not be abTe to come here? REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: We don't know the answer to that question yet. It's if he wou1d not come here, refuse to come here, I want to offer up the possibiTity that if they deem that to be too costTy and time consuming, then we wi11 say fine, we wi11 come to you so that there's no great excuse not to speak with us. Further discussion of the motion? Seeing none I so move. Mr. Curchin, p1ease ca11 the r011. SECRETARY CURCHIN: Chairman Barnes. REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Aye. SECRETARY CURCHIN: Phi11ips. REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS: Aye. SECRETARY CURCHIN: Mitten. REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: I'm sorry. But what are we voting on here? REPRESENTATIVE BARNES: Let's back up. REPRESENTATIVE MITTEN: We?re basica11y saying that the chair that shoqu the New York witness refuse to come to Missouri that we woqu -- we're authorizing the Committee or the chair to either traveT to New York to interview or deputize somebody e15e -- trave1 to New York for a deposition or deputize somebody in New York to take said deposition; is that what we're 138 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662 Mike Hafner CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER I, Bever1y Jean Bentch, CCR No. 640, within the State of Missouri, do hereby certify that the witness whose testimony appears in the foregoing questioning was taken by me to the best of my abi1ity and thereafter reduced to typewriting under my direction; that I am neither counse1 for, re1ated to, nor emp10yed by any of the parties to the action in which this questioning was taken, and further, that I am not a reTative or empToyee of any attorney or counseT empToyed by the parties thereto, nor financia11y or otherwise interested i outcome of the action. EEATXZIL .NfefJ' Bever1y Jean Bentch, CCR No. 640 140 TIGER COURT REPORTING, LLC 573.999.2662