PUBLIC HEARING DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL PERMIT NUMBER 2D0190460 TUESDAY, JUNE 4, 2013 6:00 P.M. OAK HILL HIGH SCHOOL OAK HILL, WEST VIRGINIA Catherine A. Altizer Court Reporter and Notary Public MEEKS REPORTING, LLC POST OFFICE BOX 1352. CHARLESTON. WV 25327 I (304) 342-4758 FAX (304) 342?4847 DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 6/4/2013 PROCEEDINGS MS. COSCO: Good evening everyone. My name is Kathy Cosco and I am with the West Virginia Department of Environmental Protection's Public Information Office. I would like to welcome you to the public hearing on the renewal of an Underground Injection Control permit currently held by Danny Webb Construction. The permit that is the subject of tonight?s hearing is for the disposal of brine and waste water associated with oil and gas drilling activities. This permit was originally issued in 2002 and has been renewed once. The applicant has applied for the renewal of the permit, which if issued, would be valid for five years. Currently, this well is permitted to inject at a pressure of 796 pounds per inch into a depth between 2,643 feet and 2,692 feet, which is about a half of a mile or three times the clearance of the New River Gorge Bridge. There are 65 Class II Disposal UIC wells in West Virginia. The state issued its first UIC well permit in 1988. Most are owned by drillers and used to dispose of the fluids produced in their own drilling operations. This well is one of 14 that are considered commercial wells, which means they take fluids from more than one oil and gas operators. MEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 6 4 2 0 1 3 With me tonight is James Peterson and Gene Smith from the DEP's Office of Oil and Gas. Dennis Stottlemyer and Pam Nixon who is at this door, from the Environmental Advocates Office, and we have a court reporter with us tonight, Catherine Altizer. The purpose for a public hearing is to give you the opportunity to share your comments or information about the permit application with the DEP. Tonight?s meeting is being recorded by a court reporter so that the comments you share can be taken into consideration and entered into the public record for this permit application. A decision will not be made this evening. The transcript will be reviewed and considered by the staff and those of you who signed and giving us your address, you will receive a letter once a decision is made. Because we are here to hear your comments and get them on the record, this is not a forum to engage the staff in open discussion or debate on the proposed permit. After those who wish to speak have done so, we will close the hearing and the record. If you have questions you would like to ask about the activity or what the permit allows, some of the staff will stick around to try to answer your questions. However, we cannot answer them during the hearing portion. To ensure that we successfully achieve the purpose of this meeting, we ask that everyone be respectful MEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 0400 \DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 6/4/2013 and considerate of each other by refraining from using foul language, refraining from name calling, refraining from interrupting each other while they are speaking and keeping your comments on the topic of this permit so that our time together is used efficiently. We know many of you may feel very strongly about the subject, so if you forget these guidelines we will politely remind you. I will call you up in the order that we have received your name on the sign-in sheets. However, we do have a lady who has a presentation with a power point that she would like to share. Originally, I think she had seven, but she has agreed to -- MS. LITTLE: I?m not even doing the power point presentation. I?m just going to read off my notes. MS. COSCO: Okay. MS. LITTLE: There is no wifi -- I don't think I can. MS. COSCO: Okay. Because she doesn?t have wifi, she is not going to do her presentation. So, we have about 15 people who have indicated a desire to speak. Some who may choose to speak as we get further into this proceeding, so I'm going to try and ask everybody to keep it around five minutes. I will raise my hand when we have about MEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 10 11 12 13 14. 15? 161 17% DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 6/4/2013 a minute to go, just to remind you wind it down, but I'm not going to push you off the stage right at five, we?ll let you finish up your comments. If you have written comments that you would like to submit in addition to your spoken comments, just hand them to me, or give them to us at the table after this meeting is over. Does anyone have any questions? (NO audible response given by hearing participants.) MS. COSCO: Then we will begin with our first speaker. And please forgive me, because I may not be able to read everyone?s writing or be able to pronounce your names correctly. So please, forgive me if I botch it. The first speaker I have signed up actually, has a question mark and that is Sylvia Allen. Sylvia would you like to come up and speak? MS. ALLEN: I choose not to speak at this moment, but may I speak later? MS. COSCO: I?ll mark you down as possibly later, yes. MS. ALLEN: Thank you. MS. COSCO: All right, the next one is Ronald MEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 6/4/2013 and Constance Payne. Would both of you like to come up? We have a microphone setup so that everyone can hear you better. Would you like to take advantage of that? Up here at the podium. Is that intimidating for you? MS. PAYNE: Please forgive me if I don?t sound right. I had a stroke here a couple of days ago. My husband and I own Auto Recycling. We have our oil and grease checked every six months. I have a letter here stating that none was detected and this is a month only. And I wish to submit one copy of it for the people. We help everybody that we possibly can. We do the best we can and we are all let?s all get together as neighbors and be neighbors. That?s all I got to say. MS. COSCO: Thank you. The next speaker to express interest is Elizabeth Brown. MS. BROWN: Later. MS. COSCO: Later. The next speaker is Julie Archer. MS. ARCHER: Good evening. My name is Julie Archer and I?m with the West Virginia Surface Owners Rights Organization and we are a big wide membership organization representing over 800 members in all the states oil and gas producing counties. Our organization educates its members and advocates on their behalf before all branches of NIEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 101 11 12% DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 6/4/2013 government on a variety of issues related to oil and gas development. We appreciate that the DEP honor our request and that of others to hold this public hearing to receive input on this UIC permits for renewal and hopefully answer questions in response to concerns raised by the public. We previously submitted written comments on the permit along with the Natural Resources Defense Council, so I won?t go over all of them again here this evening, but I did want to restate our opposition to issue of this permit for the record. Specifically, we believe that the application for renewal of this UIC permit by Danny Webb Construction, Incorporated, is a significant concern about the fitness of the company to operate a facility which handles toxic waste. It also calls into question the adequacy of the state oversight of Class II Underground injection control well and associated facilities given the multiple violations and non- compliance with state orders by the company, which is detailed in our written comments. The history of this site raises questions about whether the DEP has authorized continued activity potentially putting the public at risk to despite indications that the operator may have regularly violated the agency?s order and unless or until the DEP can insure public safety MEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 21 22 23 24 DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 6 4 2 1 3 and full compliance that is required that the site be fully remediated and permanently closed. We believe there is evidence that the DEP ignored the history of this site with issuing previous permit renewal to this company and we encourage the DEP to use this case and to reassess its oversight of the UIC program and all oil and gas waste in the State of West Virginia. Additionally, given the history of the problems at this site and indications that activities associated with the injection wells and the adjacent pits continued to oppose environmental and potential health risks, the DEP should deny the application, unless and until it can ensure the public that the site does not pose a hazard. We thank you again for holding this hearing to allow additional time for consideration, take input and public concern and we appreciate the opportunity to comment. Thank you. MS. COSCO: The next speaker that I have signed up is Matt Wender. MR. WENDER: My name is Matt Wender. I?m President of the Fayette County Commission. I should make it clear though that the comments that I have this evening are mine as an individual. The County Commission is certainly is not taking any action or position on this. I would like to first thank the DEP for MEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 6/4/2013 holding this hearing in Oak Hill. We welcome the opportunity to address our many concerns. However, while the hearing today is in the matter of this permit renewal, this hearing in large part is just as much about the integrity and objectivity of the DEP and your ability to sit as judge and jury. Fair or unfair, it?s often observed that is what is expedient, efficient, and profitable for the energy industry will most often dictate the permit outcome of the DEP. When the DEP is lacked in their enforcement or rulemaking of the coal industry it often results in lost men hours or even worse a Sago or UBB, where lives are lost, sudden, and tragically known immeasurably. Allowing the use of toxic chemicals when less caustic agents are known to be effective and lack of enforcement and disposable of fracking fluids, unlike lax oversight in the coal industry, these consequences may not be immediately noticeable and, in fact, may take many years to manifest themselves in unhealthy outcomes. When adverse health related issues are suspected the decision makers often conveniently hide behind terminology, like lifestyle choices or unproven science or other contributing factors. Fayette County?s economy in large part is based on recreational uses of clean water. But far more important is the essential life MEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 6/4/2013 10 itself nothing is more basic to life than clean water. Today, we are following that same worn path where there is a clear example of a low operator demonstrating his arrogance towards the rules and enforcements whose application is being judged by the DEP who sees little urgency in this matter, having already allowed that company to operate on expired permit for almost nine months. Contrary to the decision you make regulating the coal industry, a bad decision today on this permit is not reversible by a change in policy tomorrow. The consequences of your actions will outlive us and perhaps more importantly they may well outlive the generations that follows us. Thank you very much. MS. COSCO: Dr. John David. DR. DAVID: Hey folks, I?m John David. I?m a Commissioner for the Page-Kincaid Public Service District. And I want to say this that in the 70?s when we formed the PSD, I?m a founding member of the PSD. And we were looking for where to get the water supply to come to us, but a massive water system for a large portion of Fayette County had currently by the way, we serve four percent of Fayette County. We touch Fayetteville; we had 40 miles of pipe, et cetera. We looked at various sources of water. We looked at Minden and the PCD's and the super fund site and we just decided, no, we didn?t want to get river water. We didn?t MEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Office Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 6/4/2013 11 want to have water from the New River or the Kanawha River. We looked at David Francis Princess Mining operation in Hillebrand and said no, we didn?t want mine water. We didn?t know what was in the mines, various equipment; various residuals in there, et cetera. We looked at the lagoons. No, we didn?t want that because in the spring, AEP sprays, et cetera. So we hired a consultant company to come in, Glamroll Associates to take a look at deep wells and currently we?re probably one of the only systems around that gets our water supply from aquifer deep wells and we are pumping water as said to a large portion of Fayette County. Now, my concern or our concerns are as follows: basically, we and no one has yet determined where this aquifer is. It goes all over the place and it?s basically not an underground river, stream, or lake. It?s in rocks, it?s here, it?s there, you know, it?s basically, where we get the water from is very undefined interesting process, but we do pump from the deep wells and we are concerned, as I hope you understand that what might be affecting now, you know, the water supply that comes from deep wells and the aquifer. We know that water can be pumped out or comes down from various sources. I mean, those folks in this room who have been to Dog-N-Chapel know that water for years there spewed up in the air for 20?50 feet. Iron water came from the MEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 6 4 2 1 3 12 mines, it just pushed up it's pushed up because basically what goes down, you don't know where it goes and sometimes it stays down, sometimes it might come up and that?s -- you know, that?s what happened there. We are in Dog-N-Chapel and the Dog?N-Chapel mine, the Dog?N?Chapel water comes from the New River Company workings. The New River Company Workings was a firm that mined coal throughout this area and so we are aware that our water supply is a major factor. Our concern is contamination. We are not willing and able to deal with having a contaminated water supply. We do not know how to test whether or not there is contamination that?s going to be taking place of our water supply. We don?t have the money to deploy various techniques to kind of look for indicators of whether or not something has entered the aquifer that we have water coming from. We don?t know if, in fact, the ejection and some of these fluids maybe coming from Braxton County or different places where they had some earthquakes recently and other places in Ohio and other places around the country have had disruption of rock and you know, turmoil, et cetera. Whether or not, if there is going to be something like that that happens here, whether or not the rocks we move around and our aquifer which is in the rocks, as I said, will all of a sudden not be there anymore, because it will be diverted to another direction, another NIEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 1024% DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 6/4/2013 13 place. So these are real concerns that we have about anything that is going down and for us, you know, common sense you know, if it goes down, you don?t see it then it must be fine and good and all that sort of thing, but actually I think, you know, we have to be real, real concerned about where it?s going. What?s happening to it? What it is and where it might seep this way or seep that way. Whether or not the pipes or the wells might leak, rupture, crack, et cetera, and since we are right now are part of that full area that these two wells are you might say are a part of, we are a little concerned. If you approve this then we would like bond we would like to have some funds, a sinking fund so to speak, set aside so that if our water supply for the purpose and the Fayette County population is suddenly all of a sudden contaminated that we can have some funds to be able to figure something out. We would like to have some funds for testing the water over and beyond what we normally do. That?s an expense that we don?t think the low income people up in Fayette County that we serve should have to bear on top of everything else to have to take care of. So those are concerns that we have and if approved we would like those considerations. Thank you very much. MEEKS G, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 6/4/2013 14 MS. COSCO: Michael Reiks. If you would, sir, when you get to the microphone can you state your name for our court reporter, since I don?t -- MR. REIKS: It?s Reiks. MS. COSCO: Reiks? MR. REIKS: Yes. MS. COSCO: Thank you. MR. REIKS: Hello, my name is Michael Reiks. Unfortunately, I didn?t prepare a statement because sadly I only recently found out that this hearing was being held today, just a few short hours ago. I had read when Danny Webb Construction history in the Laurel Creek project and I was deeply disturbed by it and it would highly suggest the DEP take into consideration of Danny Webb?s history of DEP violations. From 2004 to 2007 they have been fined about five major violations on one site on this area. Since then you can go out to the site now and there?s evidence photos of it on their website, which is dirtywaterwestvirginia.com that shows a lot of spilling. It's dirty, red, contaminated water going in. Obviously, it?s not good. It?s going into all of our water supply. I have been a resident of Oak Hill since I was four years old and I?ve lived in the same neighborhood since then and what's weird is the last few years I?ve noticed a lot of MEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 6/4/2013 15 my neighbors raising levels of cancer. As a matter of fact, my parent?s next door neighbor, he just came down with cancer. The guy has never smoked, never drank, and lived a good clean life and a lot of people on my street alone, coming up more and more cancer raises. Something, you know, the other day we were talking about it, you know, it?s like must be something in the water and low and behold you see pamphlets that say there maybe something in the water. You talking about possibilities of radium, you know, that?s cancer stuff. This is slowly turning into Erin Brachovich. There is something deeply disturbing with this and I would heavily suggest that the DEP to take all of this into consideration. Deny this thing, don't let it go, I mean, because what?s the cost of doing business over the cost of a life, you know. Okay, so Fayette County makes money that?s great, you know, the people suffer that's not right. And I find it disturbing that, you know, the Fayette County Commission didn?t take that in consideration. However, I would -- I totally praise Mr. Wender for his comments. He hit the nail on the head. He said everything that I would love to say. You know, we need more people like that to stand up for us and like I said, just take all of this into consideration. Please, deny that. We don?t need it if it?s contaminating of MEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 6/4/2013 16 even if it?s suspected to be contaminated, don't put that stuff here. We don?t need it. What?s the cost of it? That?s all I got to say, thank you for your time. MS. COSCO: At this moment if I could, I would like to ask if you have a cell phone, please, put it on silent or turn call, if you would please step outside and take that call. It?s kind of distracting for us. Ms. Rayhall if you would like to come and speak next? Would you state your name for the court reporter? MS. RAYHALL: Do you think can you all hear me? MS. COSCO: Okay. MS. RAYHALL: Thank you for having this hearing, I appreciate it. First off, I just want to tell you the only reason that I?m here is because I?m a mom, I have kids. I don?t know Mr. Webb. I don?t know any of the employees there. I don?t have anything against anybody, I just want to point out some major concerns that I have. The only reason this came to my attention because I started hearing about a lot of kids in the area getting sick. A lot of people that have kidney problems, liver problems, kids that have so I just decided to do what I can to find out what?s going on. By doing a little bit of research I found MEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 6 4 2 1 3 17 out that the waste that is being brought in to Lochgelly, the drilling fracking waste water, that waste is actually very toxic. Just something that one test out of dozens, the barium level is and I don?t even want to go into numbers, but the barium level is extremely high. The magnesium is extremely high. The benzene level is extremely high. It?s all above the safety limits for the EPA. Toluene is incredible high; it's in the hundreds, well above the safety limits by the EPA. These are things that cause cancer and liver problems, kidney disease. There are a lot of things like endocrine disrupters that make your organs not function as they should. The chloride is just way off the charts; it?s up to 36,200 milligrams per liter. These are things that you definitely don't want in the air or in your drinking water supply. Now, this is just an older test result that I found in the FOIA document that was provided by the West Virginia DEP, okay. Recent test results that were conducted by Brake Laboratory, because PAN, Plateau Action Network, got involved and decided to test Wolfe Creek water, the head waters of Wolfe Creek. The stream itself had extremely high strontium levels, extremely high glycol. Glycol is a manmade chemical. There is no reason in the world that glycol should be in our creeks -- Wolfe Creek. I spoke with a professor at Penn MEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Office Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 21} DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 6/4/2013 18 State, Connell, Duke University, WVU, Dr. Paul Ziemkiewicz, he's a big researcher at WVU and he knows all about this stuff, and I sent him a copy of all this lab results and he said he definitely has contamination in this creek water -- Wolfe Creek has glycols and elements that definitely don?t belong there, but it?s used in drilling waste. It?s a common element that used in the drilling process. So the chemicals being hauled in that gets dumped into the sediment pits. We are led to believe either the sediment pits are leaking or the injection roll is leaking, because there's some reason glycol and very high levels of bromide is getting into the creek water. So just to summarize: diethylene glycol that was extremely high, monoethylene glycol was extremely high, triethylene glycol was extremely high. And there is absolutely no reason in the world for those chemicals to be in our creek, other than drilling waste, okay. I?ve had a dozen different people tell me this. The other thing that was pointed out to me was the fact that the level of chlorine was extremely high. If 301 milligrams per liter and bromide especially that was the biggest red flag to a lot of people, other than the glycol. Bromide was 2.30 milligrams per liter. The thing that you want to know about bromide is that it is also something that is brought up with drilling waste water. When they drill for MEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 223 DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 6/4/2013 19 natural gas, waste water, the flow back water comes back up with bromide. That is a very salty brine, but it?s not harmful if it's just left by itself, but when this water interacts with our chlorine at the water treatment plant, it turns it into trihalomethane, and I?ll just read what I have here. The Federal ETA states a limit for trihalomethane, its 80 micrograms per liter for parts per billion. Excuse me, its 80 -- yeah, micrograms per liter. are for sanitary byproducts of chlorine treatment of water containing bromine and organic matter. Bromine is a salty substance found deep underground in the Marcellus Shale area and is commonly found in fracking waste water at extremely high levels. The problem that exists is when bromine is filtrated the formation of brominated trihalomethane also known as THM's when it is exposed to disinfectant processes such as chlorine in water treatment plants. the Federal EPA Safety standard for is 80 and keep that in mind, 80 micrograms. The THM's are volatile organic liquid compounds. Studies show a link between ingestion of and an exposure to in several types of cancer and birth defects. Several studies show that bromine levels in creeks and streams have increased drastically in recent years near hydraulic drilling locations. The Federal EPA has not yet set a safety standard MEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 10 11? 12 13? 14 15 DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 6/4/2013 20 for bromine, but some researches suggests a maximum level of 100 micrograms per liter. What I want you to know is the head waters of Wolfe Creek were sampled by Plateau Action Network and tested in April, which was only a month or so ago. The bromine level was 2.3 milligrams per liter. That equals to 2,300 micrograms per liter. The Federal EPA safety limit is 80 micrograms per liter. So you are talking about a lot of bromine in our creek water for absolutely no other reason than drilling waste, okay. So this is creating a huge problem and we have to be aware of what is going on. I have a copy of water tests results from another location and in some cases, you know, when our water gets tested our state doesn't really test for bromine at all. They do test for trihalomethane and it?s done once every three months from what I understand, and some of the levels that are coming back with for our drinking water supply from the New River, it's over 100, okay. The Federal safety limit is 80, but some of our test results are coming back at over 100, okay. MS. COSCO: You are at seven minutes. MS. RAYHALL: Do what? MS. COSCO: You are at seven minutes. MS. RAYHALL: Oh, okay. I?ll try and hurry. Some of the main issues that I have regarding this is the fact that, you know, just knowing that. I looked up your MEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 #4124? DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 6/4/2013 21 FOIA documents and read over some things and I know some of the people in Lochgelly now. And I know that Brad Keenan in 2007, he had submitted video of showing the sites and actually showing waste water, you know, the pollution in the water, but he also came forward, took the time and spent a lot of money on the water testing and showed that there was high levels of diesel in the creek water back in 2007. Diesel is directly related to fracking waste as well. And any time I think that you had the opportunity in 2007 to say no, we need to look into this, this water could be contaminated with fracking waste and knowing that you chose not to, I mean, I just rips my heart out, because I know all the kids out there are having trouble and even a lot of my neighbors are sick. You know, I just wish that you all had taken this into consideration, because honestly some of this stuff should not go on here. I?m not even going to go into all the violations that the NRDC pointed out to you. There is a long list, a long letter that you received it from the Natural Resources Defense Counsel and it expressed their concerns mainly over the issues with all the air pollution that is going on. Also, the fact that in -- there was one case where the sulfur odors were reported by residents who raised concerns and they were found to be hydrogen sulfite, a poisonous and a NIEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 10 1F 12 DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 6 4 2 0 13 22 flammable gas. I mean, I guess a million things. The main thing that I want you all to know is this. Let me get my notes here. I sent a copy of this letter to also someone at cancer research in different areas and one of them actually wrote a nice statement for me to read to you guys. And this is from Dr. Michael Hendricks, he knows a lot about drilling, a lot about coal mine issues as well is considered one of the top researchers, cancer researchers for the State of West Virginia. So he read the test results and asked me to read this. ?My name is Dr. Michael Hendricks. I?m a professor in the School of Public Health at West Virginia University. I am concerned about the disposal of waste water from hydraulic fracturing activity in Lochgelly, West Virginia. These waste fluids are being held near residential areas including schools and pose a risk for both air and water pollution that can affect human health. Fracking waste water contains numerous chemicals that are used in the extraction process and that are brought up as recovered water from deep under earth underground. Some chemicals used in fracturing or fracking are recovered. Some of the chemicals used in fracturing or recovered from underground are known to be harmful if people are exposed to them. These include ethylene glycol, which was definitely found in Wolfe Creek by the way, methanol, diesel products, which Brad Keenan had MEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 21 22 23 24 DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 6/4/2013 23 pointed out to you in 2007, diesel products, strontium that was also found in Wolfe Creek and several others. The EPA has identified at least 27 chemicals that are used in hydraulic fracking formulas that are known to be hazardous to health. There are hundreds of other chemicals that are used in these formulas that have unknown health impacts. The possible health effects of all these chemicals are not understood, but we cannot assume they are safe if their effects have not been investigated. If fluoride or bromine from hydraulic fracturing waste water comes into contact with drinking water sources they may interact with normal drinking water treatment systems to form a brominated disinfection byproduct, which at high exposure levels are carcinogenic and are harmful to human health, as well as the reproductive harmful to normal reproductive development.? He says, ?From a public health perspective because we don?t know what harm might result from exposure to this complex mixture of chemicals, some of which are known to be harmful to human health, it is prudent and appropriate to immediately stop disposing of this waste water close to places where children and other people live.? This stuff does not belong anywhere near our communities and I?m really asking you to stop. I want you to take this into consideration this time. You didn?t in 2007; I?m literally begging you to stop bringing MEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 6/4/2013 24 that stuff here. For the sake of kids, there are a lot of kids that need your help. MS. COSCO: Thank you, and -- MS. RAYHALL: I just want to point out one other thing. In case you guys aren?t aware of this, I went to the West Virginia State Capitol and spoke with several legislatures and senators, they explained to me that the State Legislature passed a state law that prohibits the public from knowing exactly what chemicals are in hydraulic fracking. What do you all think about that? SPEAKER: It?s all bull crap. MS. RAYHALL: Because not only are you people (PARTICIPANTS SPEAKING OUT OF ORDER) MS. COSCO: Excuse me. Ma'am, I need to have you step down. MS. RAYHALL: Fine. MS. COSCO: You have taken twice -- more than twice your time. You need to step down. MS. RAYHALL: I just want you to consider our children and or families. MS. COSCO: Ma?am. We need you to step down in consideration of the rest of the people who is speaking tonight. Thank you. Okay. Our next speaker is Paul Brown. MEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 6/4/2013 25 MR. BROWN: My name is Paul Brown. I?m a retired State Electrical Inspector in and around the coal mine. I?m a third generation coal miner. My great~ grandfather, my grandfather, and myself were all coal miners. I'm proud to be a coal miner, but I am not proud of what the DEP is doing to our drinking water. And what I want to say to you folks is, what we sow now, we reap later and it is much more just like a farmer. He puts out a bushel of grain and he gets out an acre of reap. Now, what you want to let go we are going to reap sometime later. You and all of our government people and my question to you is this. If this is so important and this water is so safe then what I think we need to do is fix every one of you guys including all of our government officials a five -- a half of a million gallon tank filled with this stuff, disconnect all the water from anywhere and not allowed to drink any bottle water and drink, bathe and cook and serve your guests ice water in this. SPEAKER: Amen. MR. BROWN: That's what I want to see you do. And I want to see our so called governor and our so called government officials in Washington, let?s see them stand up and drink this stuff that they tell us it's safe to drink. They have passed a law like she said, that they won?t tell us what's in there because I?ll tell you why they won?t. They MEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 6/4/2013 26 don?t have the guts to do it, because they know they are killing our own people. But the problem with that is they are killing themselves. Am I threatening them, no. I?m telling them what this is going to do to their families as well as all of the rest of our families. My wife is a two time cancer survivor, which I think and praise the Lord she has lived through it two times. Fayette County at one time was the leading county in the state for cancer, so are we going to keep this kind of rate up, people. You people, are you going to stand there and say it?s all right. As a state electrical inspector, yes, I took cussing?s from people. I had people call me all kinds of names and you know what I looked at them and said, I said I'm 6 foot tall and I'm 250 pounds, I?ve got big shoulders and I?ve got big feet, but there?s one thing that I can?t do. I can?t go to your house and tell your family that you are not coming home. I don?t want to do that. I had to do that. I don?t want to ever do it again. I hope you people never have to do it. I hope our government officials never have to do it, which they won?t do it. They don't have the guts to do it with. And this is -- right here is a book called Plundering Appalachia and I know it?s going to be hard for all of you to see, but right here is what our government, Don Blankenship allowed them to pump into the NIEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 6/4/2013 27 mine and this is the drinking water that is just as orange as it can be coming out of this guy?s spicket at his house. And this EPA, you people let it go on. Nobody said oh Don, you can't do that, huh-uh. Right here's what said you can do it, right there. Now, so we our government talks out both sides of their mouth. It says they want tourism. How many people want to go across that State Park and drink water like this? Or do you want to go to Hawk?s Nest State Park and see this right here (indicating). This is what brings our dollar bills in. This is what brings your life; all of our lives to a wonderful end, when we get to the point that God says it is time for us to die. Not, to die early. So I?m saying to you, when you let these things go from now on, what you sow, you will reap, and you will reap more than you sow and I don?t want your families to have to go through this. I don?t want your families to go through cancer and all kinds of crazy weird diseases that I have went through with my wife. I don?t want that to happen to no one. So I?m asking you, stand up and have the guts to look at the governor, the senator, whoever he maybe and say no, we are not going look at a governor and said no, I will not turn my back on safety that will cause people to die. You may want to fire me, you may want to do whatever you want to do, but I said, no. You can fire me, you can do NIEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 10DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 6/4/2013 28 whatever you want, but I'll stand up and look you right dead in the eye. And I?m saying to you people, please, don?t do it because it?s your families as well as it is everybody?s here and everybody in the United States. Everybody in the world, because the people come here to see our beautiful state, but it is not going to be beautiful when we get through blowing the mountain tops off. And one other thing and I?m through. You cannot take a TV, a computer, or any kind of electronic device and take it to the landfill and throw it into the landfill. They charge you $25.00 for it and they put it in a special place and supposedly they send it off somewhere to be whatever they do with it, I don?t know. So if that has heavy metals in it and that?s what they say is the reason for you can?t put it in no landfill, now why are we taking these heavy metals out of the earth and exposing them to other chemicals that we use for making our drinking water safe and we are trying to say it?s okay. Nowtwo things, you know, either way. Here just me or we are outside playing a ballgame, which one are we doing? We are to be here and we are to be heard and we want to be heard and we want you people to stand up and be men and woman enough to look -- I don?t care what government official it is, look them in the and so no, you are not going to kill yourself and your family and you are not going MEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 6/4/2013 29 to kill us. And I thank you. MS. COSCO: Tom Omley or Oxley? MR. OMLEY: It is Omley. MS. COSCO: Omley? MR. OMLEY: All right. I?m going to brief; I wasn?t even really going to speak. I think the last time that this came up for renewal is the -- you may look back on the records, I was very adamant against it. Shortly after that process and it?s no secret I had some employees of the company threaten my life. So this time, I took kind of a side track and kind of stood back on the sideline. As far as being neighbors, I know some of the employees that work with Danny Webb and I know there are some good neighbors, so it's not about just being neighbors. It?s about whether we, as neighbors, have to drink and eat and do all of that stuff. Well, all I?m saying is what can you say after the last gentleman that spoke. You have a job and I think the job is difficult, but it?s more difficult when you do the right thing. So, that's all I have to say. Thank you for your time. MS. COSCO: Beth Little. MS. LITTLE: I?m Beth Little, and I?m with the West Virginia Chapter of the Sierra Club. Much of what I have regarding the Webb permit is questions. Some of which MEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 10 1D 12 l3 DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL may have been answered, if we had been provided the fact sheet we requested. 40-CFR-145.8 says, fact sheet shall be prepared for every draft permit or a major or NPDES facility or activity and the list goes on. And for every draft permit which the director finds is a subject of widespread public interest or raises major issues. The fact sheet shall briefly set forth the principal facts and the significant factual, legal, mythical, logical and policy questions considered in preparing the draft permit. The director shall send this fact sheet to the applicant and on request to any other person." I requested this fact sheet, but it was not provided. says ?The public comment period under paragraph 13.24.B.1 shall automatically extend to 10 days after the close of any public hearing.? I?m again requesting that the fact sheet be provided and that the 10 days extension be honored, so that any additional comments as a result of the fact sheet can be submitted. I am submitting a DVD with video taken at the Webb facility to substantiate some of my comments. There are several ways that Danny Webb is in violation of the law. The site has no security. One of the videos I?m submitting shows the gate standing open, while several trucks, tankers, and pickups drive in and out and an ATV goes through. Even if the gate is closed, there is a bypass for smaller vehicles that would MEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 10 11 12 13 14 DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL stay open and because the side is not fenced a person could walk into this site from any direction. The pits were not constructed according to engineer specifications. Seeps from the side of the pits have killed all vegetation indicating toxic ingredients. There is orange staining and the creek below runs bright orange. The claim that this is due to acid mine drainage does not explain the high, extremely high chloride content, the presence of glycol and benzene in the test results or the petroleum like film on top of the creek that does not break up when touched. Even if it were acid mine drainage this should not be allowed to be discharged into the waters of the state. Another of my videos will show that the freeboard of the pits is less than the two feet that is required by the DEP regulations. Local residents report that the pits have overflowed. They have also reported noxious odors and there are reports of hydrogen sulfate gas laminating from the pits. One of the storage tanks has no containment and due to the mere other ways that Webb?s site is not in compliance, we would like an independent inspection of whether there is adequate containment for the other tanks. Remaining questions, why is Danny Webb allowed to have pits when other underground injection wells have only tanks. Are there forms for the five year period of the permit that was renewed in 2007 and a source list required by the 2007 MEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 10 IL 12 13 14 15 DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 6 4 2 13 32 permit? If so, why have they not been provided at our request? It is an outrageous further violation of law that Danny Webb is allowed to continue operating without a permit and while in violation of the DEP regulations. He should be shut down and not be granted a permit until these or while these violations persist, not on the promise that he will sometime down the road correct the violations, but after the violations have been fixed and the pits should be removed. Thank you. MS. COSCO: Jason I can't read your writing. Cameron? MR. CAMERON: Hello, my name is Jason Cameron. I've actually been an employee for Danny Webb, off and on for eight years. The whole time that I have been there Danny Webb, -- every time something that has come up, issues arose, he?s always went above and beyond trying to repair the issue and try and fix the problem. Danny Webb has always treated me and my family with the upmost respect. That is our source of income. That?s our source Of our livelihood. Every time this comes up, a bunch of questions gets answered, a bunch of questions gets asked. We do our best to try to fix the problems if there is one, which we do our best to fix everything that goes on and we are in compliance with what the state asks us to do, even if it?s something that they MEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 6/4/2013 33 don?t request us to do, we go above what we need to do to fix it. I just wanted to state this from the bottom of my heart, because I am an employee there, my family depends on this job. This job also doesn?t just affect my family; it also affects all of you all. Every time you turn a light on, where do you think the power comes from, it comes from the coal mine or not the coal mine, but power producing plants. Most of the power plants burn coal, but they also burn natural gas. Where does that gas come from the ground? The only way they can get to that gas, they got to drill it. They have to frack it, that water comes up, that water has to go somewhere and at our facilities it gets processed, it gets filtered, and it goes back down into the ground cleaner than what it ever did when it comes back up. I just wanted to state that for the fact. I want all of you to know, all this stuff going on, people are going by hearsay and they see what they see. I work there, a lot of problems that you are arising, because my family also we?ve lived there. We live not far from this depot. I?ve lived there my whole life. None of these problems are affecting us. We live in really close proximity. I just want to state out there because everyone is concerned about health risks. I?ve got little ones, too. I let them play up there. He has even built a pond up there in case we wanted to go up there and MEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 6/4 2 0 13 34 fish up there, you know. There is nothing going on there that shouldn?t be. And every time we have an inspection they came and check us out. I just want to state for the fact that he was been very good to me and he?s been very good to my family, and he has gone above and beyond, which should be done. Thank you. MS. COSCO: Timothy Totombs? MR. TOTOMBS: Yeah. I probably couldn?t make it up to that podium. I just want to say I also work with Danny Webb Construction. I don?t currently now. I have before and I also do live in that hollow as were Danny Webb Construction is based. I mean, I drink out of them creeks, I?ve done that my whole life. I?ve never been sick and neither have my kids. I mean, my whole life I?ve been in that hollow, from a child all the way up to now, I've never been sick and my kids have never been sick. I work there. I?ve handled all of that stuff, I?ve did everything. I?ve never been sick. I?ve never passed anything to my children or my family or anything like that. And also, anything that has ever been raised out there had to been done up there, had to be fixed through the ordinance, it's always been taken care of. You know, if there was a reason, you know, it?s been taken care of. Thank you. MS. COSCO: Okay. Can you state your name? MEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 24? DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 6/4/2013 35 MR. HALVERSON: Halverson. MS. COSCO: Halverson? MR. HALVERSON: Peter. MS. COSCO: Peter Halverson? MR. HALVERSON: Yeah. MR. COSCO: Okay. Can you step to the microphone, please? MR. HALVERSON: Can you hear me? I don?t think anybody here has to say what I do. Don't hold it against me, because I going to tell you what has happened. I want you to know. I?m dying myself, okay. Inflammatory debilitating polyneuropathy. It cannot be cured. It ain't going to go away. Danny Webb, I talked to him about it and he said okay, we'll work something out when it comes time. When it comes, time. Time came. It came time. Well, three strikes you?re out. Nobody told me. I've listen at -- well, I done what I was told to do. Sometimes I got to hold my throat and my nervous system, because they can?t cure your nervous system. They can cure breast cancer. They can cure a lot of things. There's a very few rare treatments, and the doctor told me, what I have, I?m been improperly diagnosed to start with from the Social Security administration. They sent me to one doctor, they failed to find out what was wrong, okay. I helped build that pond, from nothing. I MEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 241 DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 6/4/2013 36 helped him, he told me what to do. He?s the boss, he knows what we are supposed to do, that?s what he told me. ?What do you want me to do,? I said. ?Why don?t we start with the truth,? he said. The man said it right there, (inidicating) you will reap what you sow. It?s right on the head. For three damn days I was in the hospital, the only way they would let me out of there was if I found out something. I was lost and people just left me behind. We are getting left behind. We are getting used. We are getting used by the big companies. And I?m registered as being the assistant manager of that well. I?ve been shot in the with the stuff and never been told until it was brought to my attention that I?m going blind. All these guys sitting there -- stand up, if you want the truth then stand, but don't go and let them do nothing to you. I just told them the other day and Danny told me what I was supposed to do. Now if it?s starting to seep close to the creek, they just put in a new liner. New liners in, they want to know where are the old liner is, it?s underneath the new one with all that black sludge. Just like Mr. Cameron said, because we need a job, to feed our families. Don?t hold it against me, I didn?t do nothing but what I was told to do. From day one, Danny Webb was the one who told me what to do. Like the man said, that it?s all going somewhere because we are getting left behind. MEEKS REPORTHNIG, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 6/4/2013 37 I?m going to lose my sight and there isn't anything anyone can do. I can't pretend that someone didn?t know. I was a truck driver for them and I am talented. I?ve worked many jobs. Now I'm telling you to tell someone. My brother-in-law works in the gulf. Working in drilling in the Gulf of Mexico on an oil well, he wears a suit to be protected. I don't wear a suit. I get drenched from head to toe. All your pores are open because you are sweating, how are you going to protect yourself from that? What happens when we cool down? It closes our pores up with all that inside us. I don?t know how long I?m going to live. The doctor says I?m dying, to my face. But the honest true friends know the truth, if you think I'm lying stay seated. I?m telling you the truth. One of my best friends is real upset and he is sitting here and he is real sick. I know, he always said telling me what I had how bad it?s going to be when it hits him. He won?t be able to speak. I?m registered as being the assistant of that well. I?ve been told I have Worker?s Comp Insurance and the man talks behind your back instead of telling me the truth about my Workers? Comp insurance. How much is -- how much is a man's life worth? MS. COSCO: Sir, you?re reached your time limitMEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 101 24[ DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 6/4/2013 38 MR. HALVERSON: You know, one day I won?t be able to speak and if I?m lying stay seated, but if I?m not lying stand up and let it be known that it?s the truth. And I'm not lying. I?m not lying to you. Am I right? If I?m lying stay seated but if I?m not lying stand up and let it be known that it's the truth. I?ve got two friends that work with me. My son couldn?t make it, he?s at work. MS. COSCO: I have the sign in sheet here for the last few folks that came in, but no one has indicated whether they wish to speak, so I?m just going to ask at this point if there is anyone else that would like to, please raise your hand. MR. CAMERON: I want to speak. MS. COSCO: Okay. I?m sorry sir, what?s your name? MR. CAMERON: Charles M. Cameron. MS. COSCO: Charles Cameron. Come on up, I must have missed you. I'm sorry about that. MR. CAMERON: My name is Charles M. Cameron. I?m the foreman with Danny Webb Construction. I?ve work for him going on probably 15 years. I?ve worked the wells. I?ve drove a truck and did about everything up there that could possibly be done. Also, I?m a resident. I live probably within three tenths of a mile from the well. Danny is the MEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 6/4/2013 39 person you know, that has been good to me. He's been good to my family. As the boss goes, you know, he's a good guy. One of the best bosses that I?ve ever had and this is one of the most decent jobs that I?ve ever had. The thing that gets me is, you know, I?ve you know, kind of whine and listened to people comments and you know, most of the stuff up there is just not true. I've lived that whole hollow from the time i was -- for my whole life there were coal camps up at Summerlee, you know, dumps, big slate dumps set from Fayette Clinic all the way up to the head of that hollow, two sets of tracks and you clean them, it run like from the turn of century up to like 58 from well - you know, some of these going up would probably be 70?s at the cleaning plant. What gets me is they were up at Summerlee when all the old coal cars scattered down to the -- almost to Fayette Clinic, all the way up to the head of that hollow. It was a mountain of slate that run from there almost up to the pits. There were two sets of tracks run almost the distance up in there, and they come finally in the 70?s and junked them all out, pushed all of that into the creek. There used to be a big ice pond set right there at that big curve above Otto, you know, where the recycling place is, that first big curve you come to. There was a dump there that run almost to the Fayette Clinic that was probably 30 to 40 foot high. They pulled it all MEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 1023: 24? DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 6/4/2013 40 over and covered the ice pond up. Cleaned all the other and got all the scrap out of there, it had sit there all them years. You know, people used to ride dirt bikes in the slate dumps, you know, all like down there where Eagle Carbon is; there used to be a dump there as high as that there tower. Used to ride pushed all that over, over the years, filled all that in on that big flat spot where Eagle Carbon and all that stuff sets. So I believe they put all them different slate dumps down, covered them up and now years come, you know, we always talk about orange water. Orange water has always been up that hollow. There had been a whole lot. What concerns me is they want to make a deal about, you know, Wolfe Creek has orange water, it's polluted. You know, I got pictures here, today, I just went up there to Summerlee on the back side of Mr. Omley?s property and there?s red water running through there always, probably to the New River. And would we be, you know, crazy to say well, he's renovated his property and timber and that's his fault. I mean, that would be a foolish assumption by everyone. You know, there?s a dump set up there as probably big as here to the highway that?s covered up. You know, there's one half that size buried up over at Eagle Coal. All that head of that hollow is covered up in slate and then all of a sudden here, you know, water samples you know, I don?t know where to MEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 10 11 12; 13 14 15124? DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 6/4/2013 41 get there sampling from, but the samplings I've heard have been fine. So I just think, you know, people ought to when we buy property you need to realize, you know, there was two coal camps at the turn of the century, all up in ?58, 60's and 70's. You know, a lot of things have gotten buried and left behind and then now they are surfacing. Danny Webb is getting falsely accused. That's all I got to say about it. MS. COSCO: The two ladies that I promised to come back around to is Sylvia Allen? MS. ALLEN: I?m good. MS. COSCO: You're good? MS. ALLEN: I concur with most of our speakers. Mr. Wender, Dr. David. I grew up in Summerlee, so I witnessed a lot of that as a young person. That's what I'm relating to now and I?m really concerned about our ground water. MS. COSCO: Okay. Let me check with Elizabeth Brown first. Did you want to speak? MS. BROWN: I've been there about 10 years and I've never had no problems. MS. COSCO: Is that the extent of your comments? MS. BROWN: Yeah. MEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 17; 19? 202% 21 22 23 DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 241 MS. COSCO: Okay, sir. Come on up and if you will state your name for us. MR. (INAUDIBLE): Yes, my name is Matt. I own the property next to the injection site. One comment that I would like to make on what he just said. He talked about, I guess it?s called Summerlee gob pile, and he talked about the red water running down. SPEAKER: Speak up please. MR. (INAUDIBLE): Talking about the gob pile in Summerlee about the red water running off it. I want to point out the Chuck Law went to jail for that. So, you know, he's saying this is an okay thing, but somebody?s has already been to jail for it. The other thing is I personally was out there with OOG when they took water samples. And I told them, specifically, that there was lead in the water. Now, they did their sampling and I looked at it and they never tested for lead. And I went back in the records and you have a little sheet and it lists all the information, all the things that you should test for. I?m not a chemist, but when I go through that list, there were 14 things that OOG did not test for and I?m just kind of questioning why. The other question I have for OOG is in 2007 the pits were to be removed and then when he I guess then Webb got cited for them, the 006 gave him some to keep, them my question is, MEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 6/4/2013 43 what are the pits for? And if they are to let things settle, why don?t they do it at the location that they are brought up at? And another thing that a lot of people do not know is a lot of this stuff is coming in from out of state. It is not just from West Virginia. It comes in because places like will not let it be put into their states. They have a thing where it has too much radiation, they will not let it go into their state, and it comes to West Virginia. So it?s stuff like that that OOG needs to answer why this is happening. Thank you. MR. HALVERSON: Is it alright if I stand right here? MS. COSCO: Let me make sure that other people MR. HALVERSON: Because -- MS. COSCO: has other things too. This gentleman back here hasn?t spoken. Sir? MR. PEYTON: I?m speaking from a totally different -- I?m pretty loud, I don?t need your microphone. MS. COSCO: Can you state your name for us? MR. PEYTON: My name is Peyton. Some people know me in this area. I work in the river industry, which is a different industry and I think we got other people in here that work in the river industry that are worried about the MEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 1024: DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 6 4 2 0 3 44 water, because that is our livelihood. Not only for drinking but we are putting guests down these waterways, thousands, and thousands bringing thousand dollars' of taxes to this state. A lot of people now have smart phones, and I think the smart phones are pretty smart. You can go on Google maps. I was checking out some Google maps last winter and they update those pictures periodically. Well, a good buddy of mine, Thug, was making some mountain bike trails and was checking out what he was doing in Oak Hill and I went up and saw all of these ponds. They are leaking down the roads, going into Wolfe Creek, going into what was Fayetteville?s water. I think Fayetteville gets their water from the lake now, but that still goes down Wolfe Creek and down through East Landing and then gets up there. That?s the water you are drinking. That?s the water I'm got to work on. A lot of river guides get rashes on their feet, rashes on their butts, under their arms and stuff, yeah, that might be from Virginia or North Carolina, but a good bit of that is from this state, right here and you?re phone, your smart phone, and your computer, you can go on and look at it on Google maps. You can see the damage that is doing. That you are putting me in if you are going to let this stuff happen and continue to happen, you know, and it really sucks and if you can't see that then your phone might be smarter than you. MEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 241 DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 6/4/2013 45 MS. COSCO: Ms. Board? MS BOARD: My name is Erin Board. Thank you for having the hearing. I have my master?s in public health. I?m a third year medical student at the West Virginia School of Osteopathic Medicine, although I'm not speaking on behalf of them I am speaking for myself. And I am also occasionally a videographer for the local rafting companies. So my concern in this case is ignorance, a general lack of knowledge that we have created technology that our regulations have not kept up with. Yes, they are toxic chemicals in the waste water. Is it reaches your drinking water, is it reaching recreational water, I didn?t hear any peer reviewed evidence recording any of those questions, but I will say that just because this waste is half a mile below the bridge, it is completely insufficient evidence to say the least that it will not affect us. Until you have indisputable peer reviewed studies that either can guide our policy process, we have an obligation to cease and desist for the protection of our state and of our people. Our government is a government for the people. You, the WVDEP have an ethical and moral obligation to protect us as citizens. We as citizens depend on the DEP to protect our environment. I and many others of the tourism industry work in the runoff that have been MEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Office Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 241 DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 6/4/2013 46 contaminated by gross negligence. It is your job to protect those of us that are vulnerable and dependent on your oversight to prevent oil and gas companies from accidentally exposing us from toxins. Any level of mismanagement of this issue due to its location, being so close to the New River Gorge, it is morally reprehensible. I believe it is time for West Virginia to serve as an example and lead the rest of the country entirely responsibly manage injection wells and sediments ponds. To be an example of how violations should be handled, I believe the DEP has an obligation to suspend current activities until proper risk assessments can be done. I have all due respect for Mr. Webb and his employees and also think their interest should also be protected financially and call on the community to come around and support them should the permit be suspended. We are all in this together and I think we can solve this in a responsible way. Thank you. MS. RICE: My name is Jessie Rice and for the record, Erin stole most of my comments, so if this is repetitive, I apologize. I vehemently oppose renewing the permit in question. I also believe the state should put moratorium on all new Class II injection well permits until they have found a way to adequately monitor and or assure citizens livings within proximity to a site, but they are not MEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 6/4/2013 47 at risk of the exposure to toxic chemicals or radioactive materials. Additionally, I feel like the burden Of proof for providing -- for proving waste waters are safe should fall on the companies that are requesting these permits, not the people who depend on clean water and soil for our lives and our livelihood. We should not have to suffer the same fate as other communities all over our country who have been poisoned in the name of energy and profit before the state decides to take actions or intervene. I personally don't want myself or my family to become a statistic or a case study in failed policies or another chapter in the State of West Virginia legacy in selling out to oil and gas interest. If Fayette County is going to compete in a new economy the State and the DEP cannot continue to compromise the quality of life of its citizens for short term profit. The Lochgelly spotty history and their violation records make the rejection of this permit even more critical. So I would like for us to set a precedent for other communities in our state and say no. Not without more information, not without a plan, not before our concerns are addressed of which people have covered quite a gamut Of concerns. Let?s just say no, plain and simple and tell them no, we are going to be safe. I also want to say that you know, I?m a computer programmer and I can live anywhere and MEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 241 DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 6 4 2 0 3 48 work from anywhere and I chose to move to Fayetteville, but had I known, you know, the kind of laissez-faire attitude of legislation and regulation, I'm not sure that I would have and I think that I?m an important part of the economy and to that end, I also appreciate, you know, people in this community who jobs are on the line and depend on you know, this injection well specifically and so to Erin?s point, you know, I volunteer to help anyone to find a jobjob because the permit is not renewed. I also volunteer for any organization that is involved in educating people, our legislatures, our government organizations about this issue and I appreciate the website that somebody put useful information from it. MS. COSCO: The lady in the back. MS. STEIN: I?m from North Carolina. MS. COSCO: Our court reporter can?t hear you. That?s another reason we have the microphone so the court reporter can hear you, we want to make sure we get it on the record. MS. STEIN: I?m from North Carolina. Boone, North Carolina and I?m a student in Environmental Engineering. I just started that. I've been a landscape contractor in Boone for about 12 years and I moved to this area because it was so beautiful. And it seemed very MEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 10DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL pristine until I started studying and calling on DEP websites and went to my maps, my water maps and I started looking at the infrared and GIS studies that showed a pathogen sediments that are settling in this area. It is affecting your fish; it is affecting everything in your eco system. It?s called bioaccumulation. Okay, what does that mean? If you've got a job, I feel for you. I came from a family that had worked hard on the land, but when pesticides are in the soil or things are in the soil, it affects women the most, because most of those chemicals will end up in your memory glands and in your fat tissues and it doesn?t just stop there. If you have children it gets passed on to your children and the first thing you know it attacks the neurological system, which is the intelligence of tomorrow. So when you are thinking about your jobs today, think about what?s happening in the next generation and you should be asking this of your company, why don?t you find green solvents? Does anybody know the process of fracking? It doesn't affect going down, that's conventional drilling. What happens is they drill down and then they go laterally two, three miles sometimes. That's just not under their platform of drilling, that's going over and under your hospitals, your schools, your neighbors wells, property, everything. So it?s just not affecting your job, it?s affecting everybody else?s lifestyle MEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 101 24: DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 6/ 4 2 0 3 50 and their eco system and their health. So if you work for companies like this, why not demand, I don?t mean like an union, but demand that why can't you use something like a glycerin based solvents, anything. Try to pull in people to support you; because it?s not just your life and your job, it?s your children?s life and job in the future. It's your whole community that is being affected. So I just ask you to think about bioaccumulation for the next generation, your children's intelligence, and health. So that's all I can say to you. I want to live here, but I don?t want my children or my friends walking around half-wits because some company wanted to make a profit now and not give you a job or your children jobs later or places to grow food. So think about that. It happened in North Carolina, it happened in New York, it?s happening in right now and now it's coming here. They want to dump their crap here and they are already doing it. So that?s all I have to say. MS. COSCO: Did you give your name? Did she get your name? MS. STEIN: Tammy Stein. MS. COSCO: There?s a gentleman right here. SPEAKER: I was on the list. I?m good now. MS. COSCO: Okay. I'm sorry. MR. COOK: Jerry Cook. NIEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 101 DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 6/4/2013 51 MR. COSCO: Jerry Cook? MR. COOK: I?m speaking here. Well, I live in Lochgelly and I have for 14 years and my in-laws lived there before me. There's a really foul odor there that I?m surprised no one has said anything about it. There are days and nights, I can?t go on my porch. I got to go in the house. It is foul. You know, we got a beautiful house and it?s amazing you can?t go on your own porch. We have made multiple calls to DEP and the answer is; we can?t do anything because they have a permit. That was it. No note taking, no questions, nothing but we can?t do anything about it, they have a permit. I find it pretty incredulous, personally, and I find it offensive, so I have no idea what the process is or the science is, are the people up there a lot smarter than I am, but I do know my grandfather finished the third grade, said you don?t pee in your post toasties and it seems like to me that is what we are doing here. So when I built my own home, I think somebody let me down here. So I also have a business here and I have a four million dollar payroll in Fayette County, so I understand business and I?m a business man. I spent 40 years around water and water is my business, that?s what I do and so I accumulated a 150 million dollars of income in this county and I paid over 10 million in payroll, since I have MEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 23? 24' DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL been in business. So I understand business, but I also understand you have to live here. My biggest disappointment is the people that is supposed to protect us and in my opinion is not protecting me. MS. COSCO: Is there anyone that I missed that signed up? MS. TINCTURE: I was not on the list and I would like to say something. MS. COSCO: Okay. You can come on up. MS. TINCTURE: Hello, my name is Misty Tincture. I?m not a public speaker, so you can probably here it in my voice. But sitting here listening to all of these stories, I feel like there is something that I need to say. First off, the gentleman that just spoke about the quality of air. I have two children, two boys and when I was pregnant with my second one, you could smell this odor in the air that was so bad that it would make me sick that I would have to go in my house, because I could not stand to smell it. I just kind of put it off of being pregnant, but I truly don?t think that was the problem. I?ve lived here my whole life in Lochgelly and if something is being put in our water, something has to be done with it. Something has to be tested with this water. If it is something that we are feeding our children, you know, and MEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 101 241 DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 6/4/2013 53 our families, something has to be tested. It can't be overlooked or wrote a citation for something that you didn?t do right. I want to say some names of a couple of people in our community that are children that within the last couple of years of gotten cancer and some did not survive. It?s such a small community you should not personally know that 'many children with cancer. And I hope I don?t offend anyone by saying these names, one is Izzy McManaway, who passed away from cancer that lives in Fayetteville. Her family still lives there. You have Kenneth Bigford who lives here in Oak Hill who died from a brain tumor, a very rare form. Chelsey Dwight, who lives a little bit past Fayetteville who is battling cancer right now, and another young girl Jamie Massey. Now, all of these people, I personally know. Within two years, I mean, that seems strange to me that so many children are getting sick. Not to mention the adults. I mean, this world like you said the smart phones, your Facebook; it seems like every day that I log into these, someone in our community is fighting cancer. And I just don't understand or know where it is coming from and I feel like, as someone stated earlier, it?s in the water. I don?t know if it?s in the water, but it?s in something. It is in something that we are in this little community being accepted too, whether it be the water or the air. And I just ask you MEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 6/4/2013 54 to please, consider what we all said here tonight, because it is our families and our children that are drinking this water and they have a right to know when they turn their faucet on at home that it is safe water. When you take a shower at night, our children have played sports and if they are taking a nice clean bath. So I just ask that you please, please, do what you should do and are supposed to do with your rules and regulations. Don?t overlook them. That's all I ask and thank you. MS. COSCO: We?ve got about time for one more. Is there anybody else? SPEAKER: I would like to ask one question, please. MS. COSCO: We will take the questions after we close the hearing portion of it. SPEAKER: Ma?am? MS. COSCO: Yes, ma?am? MS. PAYNE: Yes. I drive through Summerlee and right at that dip there you can see like an orange with diesel on top of it, alright. At the top of the hill there at Carlson?s Greenhouse is right there on the right. You go a little further, you got them set of railroad tracks, that?s not nothing but swampland and diesel fuel. Some probably really nice, I can't swear to it. But I would be afraid to NIEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 103 DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 6/4/2013 55 throw one of my cigarettes out the window and be afraid of being blowed up. Now, you talk to the people that live down there and you?ll have a lot of their animals have died from heartworms, which is from the mosquitoes that are in those swamps. So how can, you know, this be happening. I mean, why can?t we do something about this yellow, diesel like water coming out of the ground there at that curve before the hump, where the swamp on the other side by the railroad tracks. I mean, we are losing valuable pets here that costs a lot of money, because of heartworms, which are mosquitoes, you got water moccasins, and you got kids that are playing in there too. I mean, you got to take that in consideration also. Because they can't go to a swimming hole, where are they going to play at? MS. COSCO: Well, we will make a note of that. Thank you. Okay. Yes, ma?am, did you sign in? MS. MCDAY: No, I'm not on the list. I?m Teresa McDay. I?m a reading specialist at Rosedale Elementary. When the lady spoke MS. COSCO: Uh -- she can?t hear you. MS. MCDAY: Well, do I have to go up there. MS. COSCO: Yes. MS. MCDAY: Teresa McDay. I'm one of the three reading specialists at Rosedale Elementary. I'm in my MEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 10DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 17th years there. And when Ms. Rayhall spoke earlier, I took the notes about reproduction and the development and when the other lady spoke about the intelligence of the children and everything. People, we got a lot at stake here. We really do. I mean, our kids, I mean, if there when the mothers are pregnant if there is something not going right, if something in the water that they are ingesting and then when the babies are born, there is something in the water. It does affect brain development and it affects how they learn in school and it affects how well they do. Just go on the website and see what Fayette County lays with the State as far as test scores and education. Look and see where Rosedale lies. I mean, yeah, I mean yeah, it?s my job too, right, but, I mean, we got kids we got kids with health problems at Rosedale as well and it's just like a light bulb went on this evening and I just found out about this on the news this morning. I would have been -- I find it odd that there is another major meeting going on in the county now with the new bond and both of these meetings are at the same time and a lot of people that would have been in this meeting have to be at that meeting. I just thought it was kind of odd, because we are trying to make some changes in the county and now this happens all at the same time. Not only have I been a teacher MEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 24i DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 6/4/2013 57 at Rosedale Elementary, they tease me at school because they say I didn't go very far in life. I'm third generation, just four tenths of a mile up the road. I raised two boys in this community as well. I?m checking the dates there what 2002, my eldest son is now having health problems. He is living in Morgantown now. I mean, this really is I?m going to have him contact that professor at WVU, but I?m thinking, yes, there is something going wrong here. There most definitely is and please, please consider this permit, because I don't know how -- I mean, like I say, I?ve lived here all my life, I?m educated, I don?t know how it got by me to begin with and that?s what we were talking about at school today. I don?t know how it came about, but please consider, because we I mean, like I say, it?s no secret. Go on the website and look at the test scores. Look at how Fayette County falls within the range and we have a lot we?ve needed a lot of special ed teachers, we need a lot of reading specialists. I mean, it?s something -- something needs to be done about this. I?m really concerned and thank you for listening. MS. COSCO: Okay. This concludes the public hearing on the application to renew the UIC permit by Danny Webb Construction. To properly receive information from the agency, please make sure we have your mailing address. We?ll have some additional sign-up sheets back there in case you MEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 58 didn?t sign up and you would like to receive a letter from us notifying you of the decision and responses to the comments. As requested by Beth Little of the Sierra Club, we will extend the comment period to Friday, June 14th and you may make statements in writing by submitting them to the agency. We will have that in the back too, but the address is 601 57th Street, South East, Charleston, West Virginia 25304. SPEAKER: Don't you have an email address? MS. COSCO: We do have email address, its dep.comments or depcomments@WV.gov. SPEAKER: Which one is it? MS. COSCO: Send it to both, that way you will be sure you will get it there. SPEAKER: You don?t know which one is the one to send MS. COSCO: Right now I don?t know. I?m not sure if there is a period in there or not. At one time there was and there was a change and SPEAKER: That?s pretty sad. MS. COSCO: I?m sorry. All right. So, we thank you very much for your interest and for you taking the time to attend this hearing. Good night. CONCLUDED AT 7:55 MEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 6/4/2013 59 CERTIFICATE IN THE STATE OF WEST VIRGINIA I, Catherine A. Altizer, Notary Public within and for the State of West Virginia, duly commissioned and qualified, do hereby certify that the foregoing PUBLIC HEARING, DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL was duly taken by and before me, under the West Virginia Rules of Civil Procedure, at the time and place and for the purpose specified in the caption thereof. I do certify that the said hearing was correctly taken by me by means of stenomask and speech recognition; which is reduced to written form under my direction and supervision, and that this is, to the best of my knowledge and belief, a true and correct transcript of the proceedings and comments by said participants. I further certify that I am not connected by blood or marriage with any of the parties to this action, am not a relative or employee or attorney or counsel of any of the parties, nor am I a relative or employee of such attorney or counsel, or financially interested in the action, or interested, directly or indirectly, in the matter in MEEKS REPORTING, LLC (304) 342-4758 Post Office Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL controversy. Given under my hand this 11th day of June 2013. My commission expires June 7, 2017. Catherine A. Altiz Court Reporter, And Notary Public MEEKS REPORTING, LLC Post Of?ce Box 1852 Charleston, West Virginia 25327 (304) 342-4758 '5 my; :9 ?o?h?v -m?w lit.? xx If.) [18253332663 .55 $6335 ii 2951335?) . a: 'ili??fx??i?ii'. 1 $3323?