1 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 PUBLIC HEARING DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL PERMIT NUMBERS 2D0190460 AND 2D0190508 TUESDAY, APRIL 21, 2015 6:17 PM OAK HILL HIGH SCHOOL AUDITORIUM 350 WEST OYLER AVENUE OAK HILL, WEST VIRGINIA 25 _____________________________________________________________ 26 27 28 Catherine A. Altizer 29 Court Reporter 30 and Notary Public 2 3 4 MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 5 6 7 8 POST OFFICE BOX 1852, CHARLESTON, WV 25327  (304) 342-4758 FAX (304) 342-4847 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 04/21/2015 1 2 3 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 (304) 342-4758 2 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 1 04/21/2015 3 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 MS. GILLENWATER: Good evening. Can everyone 3hear me? 4 ALL: 5 MS. GILLENWATER: 6Gillenwater. Yeah. Okay. I’m Kelley I am from the Department of Environmental 7Protection Public Information Office. Welcome to tonight’s 8Public Hearing to discuss two permit renewal applications for 9an underground injection control facility in Fayette County. 10Those draft permit numbers are UIC 2D0190460 and UIC 112D0190508. 12 Also, here this evening are Gene Smith, Tom Bass, Zach 13Stevenson, Rick Campbell and James Martin with the DEP’s 14Office of Oil and Gas. We have Dennis Stottlemyer with the 15Environmental Advocates Office and Jake Glance with the Public 16Information Office. 17 The applicant is Danny E. Webb Construction, 181Incorporated. The Danny Webb Construction facility known as 19the North Hill plant operates two commercial Class II UIC 20wells where fluids associated with oil and natural gas 21production are injected. If approved the permits for the two 22wells will be valid for five years. 23 Public comments will be considered by the DEP before the 24agency decides whether to approve or deny the permit 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 1application. 04/21/2015 4 In addition to comments taken orally at 2tonight’s hearing, comments can be submitted in writing at 3this hearing or can be sent through the mail or via fax or 4email by May 1st. The mailing address, fax number and email 5address were available at the sign in table. If you didn’t 6receive this sheet with that information stop by the table on 7your way out or find me or someone else with the DEP. 8 The purpose of tonight’s hearing is to give you the 9opportunity to share your comments with the DEP about this 10proposed rule. You can do this through the public address 11system here in the auditorium or if you would prefer you can 12give your comments directly to a court reporter stationed in 13the cafeteria. 14 Please note that the DEP will not be responding to the 15comments made here tonight, but written responses will be 16prepared for all comments received. However, in the cafeteria 17we have two information stations set up where representatives 18from DEP Office of Oil and Gas are on hand to answer questions 19about these permits in the permitting process in general. 20 All the comments received here in the auditorium and in 21the cafeteria are being recorded by court reporters and will 22be part of an official transcript. All written comments 23received will also be part of the public record. To insure we 24successfully achieve the purpose of tonight’s hearing we ask 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 04/21/2015 5 1that everyone be respectful and considerate of each other by 2refraining from interrupting those who are speaking and this 3applies to speakers giving public comments here and in the 4cafeteria and people talking and getting their questions 5answered at the information tables as well. 6 We also ask that you keep your comments on topic so that 7our time together is used significantly. Please note that any 8gross violations of our basic rules of conduct will be cause 9for the offending party to be asked to leave or for the 10conference to be ended. 11 Because we do have an abundance of speakers who wish to 12speak here at the podium tonight we will be limiting each 13speaker to two minutes. Once you hit the two minute mark I’ll 14let you know and you can wrap up your comments. If you 15haven’t finished your comments, again, you can submit your 16comments in writing through May 1st or you can go to the table 17with the court reporter in the cafeteria and submit your 18comments as well. 19 For those who are speaking here tonight when I call your 20name, please, come up to the podium at the front, say your 21name clearly and any affiliations that you are representing. 22If you happen to be outside at the information table, I’ll 23call your name again, at the end, so you have the opportunity 24to come up and speak, so don’t worry about rushing back. 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 1 04/21/2015 6 Now for those of you who may be taking part in the 2information station, part of our setup if you are at a table 3and you have multiple questions and there are quite a few 4people behind you, we ask that you please be respectful of the 5people behind you and wrap up your questions that you can 6always go to the end of the line and come forward again with 7additional questions. 8 Also, if you have written comments that you want to 9submit again in lieu of or in addition to your oral comments 10you can drop those off with any member of the DEP here tonight 11or you can mail those into the address by the registration 12table. 13 14 Anyone have questions about our format? AUDIENCE SPEAKER: Yes ma’am. Do I have to go 15outside to get questions answered or if I ask a question here 16would it be answered here? 17 MS. GILLENWATER: We’re not -- because we have 18so many people we are not responding directly to questions 19here, but we have the information stations setup so you can go 20out there and ask your question and depending time permitting 21we will probably stay a few minutes after this portion of the 22evening wrapped up just to be able to answer questions. 23Again, that’s time permitting however. 24 AUDIENCE SPEAKER: 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 Yes, ma’am. (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 1 MS. GILLENWATER: Okay. 04/21/2015 7 I guess we will start 2with our first speaker and if I can ask -- I’m going to ask 3for a second person to come forward just to be ready to be on 4deck so to speak, but our first speaker who signed up to speak 5at the microphone is Tom Rhule and behind Tom will be Trish 6Kicklighter. 7 So Tom if you could come forward and Trish if you could 8get ready that would be great. 9 MR. RHULE: Thank you. Well, I’m glad you put me first. 10Can you tell me why you put me first? 11 MS. GILLENWATER: You were the first person to 12sign in. 13 MR. RHULE: 14 MS. GILLENWATER: No, that’s not true. First person to sign in to 15speak -16 MR. RHULE: That’s not true -- oh, maybe that 17is true. 18 MS. GILLENWATER: 19 MR. RHULE: 20hear me? Yeah. My name is -- is this one? Can you My name is Tom Rhule and I don’t live in Fayette 21County, but I’ve got lots of friends who live here. I spend 22lots of time down here, vacations and time with my friends. 23live in Kanawha County and I consider Fayette County my 24neighbor. So I’m here to defend my neighbor against the 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 (304) 342-4758 I 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 04/21/2015 8 1wanting dumping of radioactive waste in the watershed of the 2most beautiful part of West Virginia I know. 3 In the draft permit there is a document of a sample 4report, one document that records the radioactivity of the -5let me get my notes up here, I’m sorry. I didn’t sign up 6first, they’re putting me up here first for a reason. The 7radioactivity going into that well is many times higher than 8what’s allowed by law. Its typical frack waste and they’ve 9known this for a longtime. Back in 2010 they fined the City 10of Wheeling $414,000.00 for accepting frack waste into their 11municipal waste treatment plant under the Water Pollution 12Control Act. They ordered remediation of technologically 13enhanced nationally occurring radioactive material, also known 14as TENORM. 15DEP. That’s a word that they don’t usually use at the TENORM it’s a term of art. 16learn it, because it’s important. It’s a legal term of art, It’s your defense against 17this radioactivity going into your watershed. There is a law 18against them permitting it without coordinating it with either 19the Nuclear Regularity Commission or the Department of Health 20and Human Recourses. 21 Anyway, the one sample result was it 31,048 picocuries 22per liter. 23 Now, I’m going to explain this here in a second. MS. GILLENWATER: Mr. Rhule, you will need to 24start wrapping up your few minutes -2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 1 MR. RHULE: 2 MS. GILLENWATER: 3 MR. RHULE: 4Okay. 04/21/2015 9 Oh yeah, of course. -- explanation -- Yeah, two minutes, I get it. It’s over 54 times the federal action level for 5industrial of fluent going into that well. It’s illegal, but 6it’s going in there. 7 Other problems I have with the draft permit is the 8mechanical integrity test that was done back in 2012 was 9inconclusive. The documents they included in the draft permit 10and the fact sheet were incomplete. That well is leaking. 11Dr. Vengosh came in and he showed that frack waste is going 12into Wolf Creek. 13228. Among that frack waste was Radium 226 and It was downplayed in the press. It is going into the 14watershed in over 750 wells in this state of the same class -15class II injection wells. I send them a Freedom of 16Information Act Request over a year ago asking for where those 17wells are and they’ve stalled me on that they sent me -- the 18answer was they had 46 wells, didn’t really identify where 19they were. EPA has been stalling me for almost six months; 20they won’t tell me where they are. There are 11 Class II 21injection wells in Kanawha County, and there are three in 22Fayette County and I guarantee you these aren’t the only two 23that are leaking radioactive waste in the aquafer, for 24eventually into your drinking water. 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 1 MS. GILLENWATER: 2we can have our second speaker. 04/21/2015 Alright, thank you. 10 Now if State your name and your 3affiliation, please. 4 MS. KICKLIGHTER: Trish Kicklighter, 5Superintendent of the three national parks of Southern West 6Virginia. 7 The National Parks Service is adamantly opposed to 8permitting any injection wells or holding ponds that are used 9to store waste or fluids associated with oil and natural gas 10production within the watershed of the three rivers associated 11with the three national parks, the New River, the Gauley 12River, and the Bluestone. 13 The Three National Parks and this is particularly true 14with the plans that are adjacent to Wolf Creek. This is one 15of the primary contributories of The New River. The three 16national parks in this immediate area are the foundation 17stones of the local tourism industries. They attract each 18year over 1.2 million visitors and contribute 51 million 19dollars to the local economy. They are unique resources and a 20treasure of all people in the United States especially of the 21West Virginia folks. Some of the resources in these parks are 22even globally significant. The National Park Service has been 23entrusted to protect these resources especially the water 24quality and must insure the standards set by the Clean Water 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 1Act are followed. 04/21/2015 11 Water quality is directly linked to the 2success of tourism industry in this area. There is a public 3expectation that the National Park will provide a world class 4visited experience in a high level of resource stewardship of 5protection. Because many of these resources are threatened 6from outside sources the only way we can protect them is with 7partnership with the surrounding communities and also the 8State of West Virginia. 9 For the tourism economy to be maintained and to grow in 10this area we must offer an excellent product. 11excellent water quality. This includes Therefore, I’m requesting the State 12of West Virginia to deny this permit and pass legislation that 13excludes the watershed of the three rivers from future 14permitting consideration. 15 Thank you. MS. GILLENWATER: Okay. I’m not sure if I’m 16reading this correctly, Aiden Hodge or Modge? 17 MR. HODGE: 18 MS. GILLENWATER: 19Gary Zuckett. Gary if you could be ready to come up after Mr. Aiden Hodge. Okay. And on deck we have 20-- did you Hodge? 21 MR. HODGE: 22 Hello, my name is Aiden Hodge. Hodge, yes. I am a chemistry and an 23environmental student at Concord University. 24any official affiliation. 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 I do not have I’ve been investigating this creek (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 1since the beginning of the year. 04/21/2015 12 Intentionally, I did not 2contact other originations for today except for the PAN 3Network throughout my investigation to kind of rid myself of 4any bias that may form. 5 I have lived in this town for several years. I have -- 6you have probably seen me deliver as a pizza delivery guy to 7your house every once in a while, but now with my 8introductions out of the way, as you all may know in September 92013, Dr. Vengosh at Duke University determined that the Wolf 10Creek watershed near the injection al plate was contaminated 11by frack and waste water. From his affidavit it was revealed 12through various ICP instruments that there was contamination 13such as Iron, Barium, and Strontium on the orders to magnitude 14of 113 parts per million iron and 2000 parts per million 15Barium and Strontium. This storage pits since that report 16have been dug up at the injection site, however, Dr. Vengosh’s 17report could not differentiate whether the storage pits were 18leaking or the injection well itself was leaking. So, I begin 19my project and I hope to determine to see if the injection 20wells are leaking or not. My findings have determined that 21the injection well itself is not leaking and the concentration 22of barium has gone from concentration of over 2000 parts per 23million to below the detectable limits of the ICP instrument 24at Marshall University. 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 However, the Iron content at the head (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 04/21/2015 13 1waters was still elevated above the DEP water quality standard 2of 1.5 parts per million since the creek was at 2.32 parts per 3million and that seems also kind of match with other data that 4I’ve seen in regards to the iron. 5 The organics that were once visible at the site are no 6longer visible and any visible quantity and compared to that 7Summerlee acid mine drainage that also flows into Wolf Creek 8from the Summerlee area it has 3.88 parts per million iron and 9detectable amounts of barium and strontium at .026 parts per 10million and 0.149 parts per million respectively. 11 MS. GILLENWATER: You need to start on your 12completion, please. 13 MR. HODGE: 14 MS. GILLENWATER: 15 MR. HODGE: Start with the conclusion? Okay. Yeah. Now, I’m going to switch 16from actual data to my personal opinion. 17 As I’ve said the waste since the storage pit -- the 18storage pits themselves are leaking not the injection wells 19from my determination and even though I say that, my personal 20opinion is that I’m personally against fracking because I feel 21that it is currently a needlessly in dangers the environment. 22We don’t really need to be fracking just yet, but eventually 23we do and I support research in that field. 24 However, despite this I support the injection well, 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 04/21/2015 14 1because as determined by Dr. Vengosh’s report and what has 2happened here having this stuff at the surface is detrimental 3to the environment, but I feel that it would be a crime to 4keep this stuff at the surface instead of injecting it to the 5environment, because it’s too dangerous to keep it up here. 6It needs to go back from where it came. 7 MS. GILLENWATER: Okay. Thank you. Next we have is Gary 8Zuckett and if we can have Eric -- and I’m having trouble 9reading this Antimoth (sic)? 10 MR. ZUCKETT: Good evening. As she said my 11name is Gary Zuckett, I’m Executive Director of West 12Virginia’s Citizen Action and we are here to oppose the 13proposed permit. We feel there are too many unanswered 14questions, such as what is the source of the chloride, 15bromide, the sodium magnesium, strontium, barium that was 16detected in Wolf Creek and others will have a lot more 17questions. I think what we are looking at here is a bigger 18problem than just Fayette County. To me this is deja-vu all 19over again, because I have property up in Richie County and 20I’m a member of the Hughes River Watershed Association also 21and we are looking at the Hawg’s disposal wells outside of 22Bellinburrow (sic), which had two disposal wells and two 23holding ponds and in ground holding pounds with high levels of 24conductivity in the wells there -- the monitoring wells high 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 04/21/2015 15 1conductivity in Herhsers Run (sic) below the site, so you know 2this is not like a Fayette County problem. 3Virginia problem. It’s not a West It’s a regional problem and it’s a problem 4with the fracking industry. If we can’t make the industry -- 5the fracking industry keep its waste in order and not let it 6leak into our streams and not let it pollute our drinking 7water then maybe we shouldn’t be doing additional permits for 8drilling. 9 Thank you. MS. GILLENWATER: We now will have Eric and I’m 10not going to attempt that last name again. 11 MR. ANTIMOTH: 12 MS. GILLENWATER: Eric Antimoth. Alright. And we actually 13have Peder Halvorson has signed up to speak at both places, so 14if Peder if you want to speak here come up to the front, if 15not, Andrew Sullivan if you could come up to the front and be 16prepared. 17 MR. ANTIMOTH: Hi, my name is Eric Antimoth, 18I’m the Board Member of Classical Action Network, I’ve been so 19for the last 15 years. Classical Action Network has been 20doing water sampling on Wolf Creek for 14 years and we have 21created and have grown with the EPA watershed protection plan, 22which is currently being implemented. I don’t have the 23technical expertise or Watershed Coordinator Levi will address 24some of those technical things, but I want to say this about 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 04/21/2015 16 1to you and not so much to the DEP, but I also want the DEP to 2hear this issue. 3 We know that Danny Webb has violated the rules and the 4terms of his permit. We know that the DEP has failed to 5inforce the rules in terms of that permit. 6this community. The DEP has failed They have favored the corporation interests 7over this community’s interest time and time again. It’s 8outrageous, it’s immoral, and the DEP should be ashamed of 9itself. 10 (APPLAUSE) 11 MR. ANTIMOTH: Now, I know there are DEP here 12who are good people, many people at DEP are good, honest 13people, and they have to do what they are told, much like 14people who work for coal mines they have to do what they are 15told. Sometimes we get put into situations where we have to 16do things that we know aren’t right. 17to stop. Nevertheless, it’s got The people who should really be ashamed and I would 18like the DEP employees to think about holding their higher ups 19accountable for their behavior and what they do to us. 20Secretary Huffman should be ashamed of himself. Governor 21Tomblin should be ashamed of himself and Senator Manchin, 22former Governor should be ashamed of himself, he came to this 23community -24 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 (APPLAUSE) (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 1 MR. ANTIMOTH: 04/21/2015 17 -- months ago and promised us 2that he would do something about this and all he has done is 3shuffle things around, confuse the public, wear us down, and 4try to scapegoat this whole thing on oh, well there is nothing 5we can do. I have no expectations that the DEP is not going 6to grant this permit. I expect they will do it, but it’s 7outrageous and it’s just immoral, don’t you think so? 8 9 (APPLAUSE) MS. GILLENWATER: Next up we have Peder 10Halvorson and behind Peder we have Andrew Sullivan and if we 11could also get Sylvia and Aubrey Allen ready in the front as 12well, again, this is Peder Halvorson followed by Andrew 13Sullivan and then followed by Sylvia and Aubrey Allen. 14 MR. HALVORSON: 15first opened up. I worked at the well when it I set the well up, not knowing exactly what 16everything was going in there. I don’t know if Danny even 17knew what was going in there at that time, but the thing that 18happened there to me was in 2004 I had my first seizure. And 19then I got sicker and I left on voluntarily layoff and it took 20five years for doctors to find out what was wrong with me. 21And I’ll tell you when the liners in the pits were leaking, 22which he put another liner in, but we didn’t remove the whole 23other liner. I know that for a fact, I was there, so it is 24still in the ground. 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 And if you flip something over, just (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 04/21/2015 18 1like he’s trying to seal a trash bag, something is still going 2to come out the top and it ain’t -- it gave me toxic poisoning 3of the central nervous system, which is a terminal illness. 4It has affected everything in my body, it has given me seven 5seizures and besides degenerative disk disease, the 6deterioration of my spine and my other bones in my body. The 7cartilage is deteriorating and if they are going to do 8something like this it needs to be done safe, but that’s not 9for me to decide. 10public issues. Everybody has their own safety issues and I’ve done what I was told when I worked there. 11I worked hard there. If I wouldn’t have got to the right 12doctor at the right time I would have been dead and they 13didn’t find it here because these doctors down here weren’t 14capable of finding it. I’ll just leave it at that. 15 MS. GILLENWATER: 16 MR. SULLIVAN: Andrew Sullivan. Good evening, I am here first 17and foremost to go ahead and be a proponent of the opposal of 18this well and any other injections sites or toxic waste 19dumping sites within the three rivers system that we all enjoy 20in this area and is the hallmark of the economy in this area. 21 I’m also here representing the White Water Professional 22Community. I drink the water from these rivers. 23these rivers part of the year. I work on I’m highly concerned as are my 24coworkers about the damages or the impacts of these toxic 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 04/21/2015 19 1chemicals on our bodies and all the people who come here to 2enjoy it, tourism. At this point in West Virginia we all know 3the fracking industry is on the decline. So with the changing 4of the economy we need to look towards new ways to sustain 5ourselves here in the heart of Appalachia and one of those is 6these tourism economy. So again, I’m here to oppose any toxic 7waste and any injection wells in the region. 8 I’m also concerned about the families of the area, the 9children, and the long term effect of consuming these 10chemicals, which we are not accurately testing -- the DEP is 11not accurately testing for and not accurately creating 12collecting data for. I would like to see some new science and 13some new testing done to reinsure that these facilities are 14foolproof. That our water is safe, that the office I live in 15and work in and enjoy my playground is safe and the people 16come here to visit us are safe. There are fisherman, 17kayakers, whitewater rafters, hikers, children, families, 18everyone is out here trying to enjoy this area that’s why we 19live here and without stricter enforcement and without holding 20these companies accountable who are consistently violating the 21rules in these permits, I don’t see really any chance that we 22have. Please step up and go to bat for us. Help us out, we 23will work with you; let’s see the future of Appalachia become 24what we really need to be. 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 Thank you. (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 1 MS. GILLENWATER: 04/21/2015 20 Next up we have Sylvia Allen 2and if we can have Brandon Richardson and Mary Rahall ready to 3speak here as well. 4 And also, I’m having trouble reading this name, I have 5somebody signed up to speak with the court reporter in the 6cafeteria and I can’t read the name very well, it looks like 7either Timothy or Trinity, middle initial J Thomas? 8 MS. ALLEN: 9I’m really upset. Good evening, I’m Sylvia Allen. The reason I’m here, I’m a concerned 10grandparent, parent, citizen. I wrote a letter to the DEP and 11I’m really upset with what I’ve read in the findings. I’ve 12been following this in the newspaper as all of you have. 13very concerned about the contents coming from the well. I’ve I 14hope that the State of West Virginia and the DEP will do 15everything you can to stop this well or wells in the state and 16I’m here to tell you I’m going to do everything I can as a 17grandparent. I’m here as an advocate also of children. 18retired educator. I’m a I spent many years here in Fayette County 19and I love these hills and valleys as well as you do and I 20don’t want to see them destroyed by this and destroying our 21water that we drink every day, so you people, get off your 22duff and do something about it. Thank you. 23 Brandon Richardson. MS. GILLENWATER: And 24again, Mary Rahall is next followed by looks like Lydia or 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 04/21/2015 21 1Lynda Ervolina. 2 MR. RICHARDSON: Hello, my name is Brandon 3Richardson, I’m with Friends of Water and I would like to -- I 4reside in Oak Hill, West Virginia and so does my family. I 5would like to first address the Weir sandstone, which is the 6Mississippi and Geological area that the proposed injection is 7to take place. We would like that the DEP to state what is 8the total volume of injected fluids compared to the capacity 9of the Weir sandstone to hold these fluids. The people are 10asking it to be demonstrated with sufficient data that the 11Weir sandstone is in fact isolated from surface waters and 12ground water drinking sources. We need the DEP to point out 13the geological layers used as confining layers, for those of 14you who don’t know what the confining layers are used to block 15the fluids from moving up in the rock columns, what is the 16total thickness of confining layers resting between the Weir 17Sandstone and our ground water and drinking source waters and 18surface water? If it is the solely, the Mackerty (sic) 19formation which overlies the Upper Price then we need to know 20the thickness of mudstone and layers in this county since it 21varies across the state, shallowing in the north to a 22thickness of only a 150 feet. The Greenbrier limestone can 23hardly be considered a defining layer for the Weir Sandstone. 24The Malchunk (sic) group if that is being used as a confining 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 1layer then we are in trouble. 04/21/2015 22 We are asking that you describe 2what geologic layers that lie between us and our water. We 3need to have an accurate report of the confining layers 4including at least thickness peroxided and permeability. This 5should also include any fractures own peroxided associated 6with the natures of these rocks and any artificially produced 7fractures own peroxided associated with well bores and 8abandoned mines and others. 9 We are asking that measures to taken to assess the 10damages done to the soil and waters of the state and private 11property of the owners. More specifically we ask that a 12complete soil sampling survey be conducted on the property of 13Danny Webb Construction North Hill Plant and surrounding 14properties in the entire stretch of Wolf Creek. In addition 15to the monitoring wells that are located on Wolf Creek we want 16monitoring wells installed on Danny Webb’s property in 17Lochgelly with routine testing for all parameters including 18the selected by Dr. Avner Vengosh. It seems necessary in 19these conditions to install deep ground water monitoring wells 20in the geologic areas and immediately overlying the Weir 21Sandstone to investigate possible routes of contaminates 22migration. 23 Since the DEP has fully demonstrated with evidence all 24that they are capable of doing with these permits is violating 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 04/21/2015 23 1state and federal law, we are very disappointed and disgusted 2with the DEP involvement as this site according to the 3petition circulating with 350 plus signatures. The West 4Virginia DEP is not to be trusted with the oversight of this 5injection facility and we do not trust them with the 6responsibility of assessing damages caused by the site or the 7remediation in the case that damages are present. 8 MS. GILLENWATER: Mary Rahall. Lynda Ervolina 9who was next has deferred her time to Tom Rhule, so Tom if you 10could be ready and we also have Barbara Daniels after Tom. 11 MS. DANIELS: 12 AUDIENCE SPEAKER: 13 MS. GILLENWATER: 14 MR. KEENAN: Brad Keenan. 15 MS. RAHALL: Thank you so much for everyone for I also deferred to Tom. I want to defer to Tom too. I don’t know your name? 16attending this public hearing. 17 Back in 2012, I had heard about a lot of people in our 18area that had cancer and serious health problems, even young 19children. So I remember coming home one day and I asked my 20husband, I know this sounds crazy, but I think there’s 21something wrong here. And I remember him thinking oh, Mary 22you are just paranoid there is nothing wrong with anything. 23So I started checking around and trying to figure it out and 24there weren’t any smoke stacks or anything and finally did 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 04/21/2015 24 1some water testing and later learned that Wolf Creek was very 2badly polluted. At the time I knew nothing about Danny Webb 3or anything, but my overall goal was really almost as if it 4was a rescue mission. I just wanted to get Wolf Creek cleaned 5up and I thought it would be a really simple matter, but as 6the time went by, you know, turned into weeks, months, to 7years and then you realize it wasn’t going to be simple at 8all. Funny how -- to make a long story short, fortunately, we 9were able to get Duke University experts as well as the USGS 10to come in and test the headwaters of Wolf Creek and they were 11amazing. This was in addition to some other go to had come 12in, but they concluded that Wolf Creek was very badly 13contaminated with hydraulic fracking waste and they explained 14to me that if the acceptance of over 700 chemicals. They 15didn’t test for 700 chemicals, they just tested for the 16fingerprints of fracking because they wanted to distinguish it 17from acid mine drainage, because over the years we have been 18told that the Wolf Creek was polluted by the mine drainage. 19So getting these experts in here and concluding that was a 20pretty big deal and then it was later that I learned that 21hydraulic fracking, you know, a lot of these chemicals are 22toxic and cancer causing and even a bigger issue that can 23collate with the fact this fracking is in creditably 24radioactive. And this is a fact that has been hidden for many 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 04/21/2015 25 1years, simple because they don’t want us to know how 2radioactive it is. So to make a long story short we learned 3recently that one of the tests that were done on the effecting 4leak that was being injected at the Danny Webb site had over 5-- radium level of over 3000 picocuries per liter in that 6waste water. 7 Okay and the maximum threshold for federal and state 8levels are 60 picocuries per liter. Like if you take a little 9bottle, a two liter bottle -- excuse me -- one liter bottom of 10water that over 3000 picocuries per liter and you think about 11the sludge, 18 feet worth of sludge at was sitting in those 12two very large pits out there. I asked Dr. Vengosh when he 13was in town on one of his visits, I said how radioactive do 14you think that stuff in the pits is and he said I don’t know, 15I can’t really answer that question, but just to be guessing, 16everyone just chit chatting, was thinking probably 1000s times 17higher than the federal and state level. 18 MS. GILLENWATER: Ms. Rahall, I’m sorry, you 19need to start your wrap up. 20 MS. RAHALL: Okay. Alright. So anyway you are 21talking about tons of this stuff that was allowed to sit out 22there. I got online, the Federal EPA website clearing states 23that it is a known fact and you can go read it yourself and 24you can even read about it on dirty secret waters.com. 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 I was (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 04/21/2015 26 1really going to do a nice presentation for you guys today, but 2I was told I wasn’t allowed to show photographs of the site. 3I wasn’t allowed to do a presentation with slides or anything, 4so that is on dirty secret water.com, but I want you to know 5if you go to the Federal EPA website, process back into the 6water can have up to 9000 picocuries per liter, okay. That’s 7a lot, that’s a whole hell of a lot and when you think about 8the fact that they allowed this stuff to sit out there in pits 9for 10 years, that’s a major problem, because according to the 10Federal EPA this stuff affects everybody’s health to a 50 mile 11radius -- 50 mile radius. 12 That’s a big deal. And another thing I wanted to point out to you. While 13USGS stayed right here they said they test a lot of places, 14they do a lot of work everywhere, but when it came back and 15told me you are not going to believe this we were actually 16blocked from getting a water sample from the sediment pit and 17that injection well and I was like what do you mean? Like 18well, you know, the Department of Environmental Protection 19they actually took legal action to block us from just getting 20a sample of this water and they gave me this report. It’s 21right here in my hand and it is dated May of 2014. 22 MS. GILLENWATER: Ms. Rahall we do have 21 23additional speakers, -24 MS. RAHALL: 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 Okay. Alright. (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 1 MS. GILLENWATER: 04/21/2015 27 -- sorry, we will have to ask 2you to wrap it up. 3 4seven years. MS. RAHALL: We have been poisoned for over Don’t you think I deserve a little more than two 5minutes to speak of it? 6 7 (APPLAUSE) MS. GILLENWATER: With 21 additional speakers, 8so at this time we have Lynda Ervolina. 9 10 MS. ERVOLINA: MS. RAHALL: Can I be -I’m going to tell you something. 11I came in to this thinking as a rescue mission -12 MS. GILLENWATER: 13 MS. RAHALL: 14not going to rescue us. 15that bans that stuff. In the future -- -- there is no rescue. The DEP is It’s going to come down to a county I want to see what all these wells are 16leaking. 17 MS. GILLENWATER: Ma’am, -- Ms. Rahall, you 18have -19 20coal mines. MS. RAHALL: And let’s say you have water in This stuff is going into our water. If we want 21to save our families, by God you better get out there and help 22yourself, because DEP is not going to do it. 23 24 (APPLAUSE) MS. GILLENWATER: 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 She has two additional (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 04/21/2015 28 1minutes because the next speaker defers. 2 MS. RAHALL: I want to go ahead and mention one 3more thing while I’m up here. A little over two years ago, I 4went to the State Capitol and spent some time with people, 5talking to them about this issue. Shortly after that I found 6at that a bill was passed called Senate Bill 243. This bill 7actually blocks the public knowing what they are supposed to. 8It blocks you from knowing what’s in the frack waste. Our 9legislatives passed this, so not only have we been exposed to 10these toxic chemicals, we are not even allowed to know what 11all we have been exposed to. But I do know that we have been 12exposed to something like trihalomethane, benzenes, horrible 13things that cause cancer and I’ve got a long list of these 14things that were provided to me from researchers who took the 15time to come here and provide the evidence and to show this 16was a tragic -- this is just a horrific mess that we are in 17and I hope to God that this does not haven’t been a waste of 18our times. I know that people literally put their lives on 19the line to bring this information to you, literally put their 20lives on the line and I pray to God that our efforts aren’t in 21vein. 22 Thank you. MS. GILLENWATER: Brad Keenan and Barbra 23Daniels, the next two speakers, they have been deferred to Tom 24Rhule and he has a total of four minutes. 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 And behind Mr. (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 04/21/2015 29 1Rhule we have Diane Pitcock, if Diane can be ready and then 2Levi Rose. 3 MR. RHULE: Thank you. Thanks for Brad Keenan 4and others and Barbara Daniels for deferring their times to 5me. In the interest of full disclosure I am the Communication 6Director for the Mountain Party of West Virginia. We are 7circulating a petition to band all industrial waste in this 8county and do it by -- through the passing of an ordinance 9through the County Commission. You have probably been 10approached by Barbara or someone else to sign that petition 11that’s the Mountain Party bring that to you. 12political. It’s a matter of self-survival. The Act is nonNow I want to 13talk a little bit more about this frack waste, which they cut 14me off, you know, two minutes earlier. First of all, Aiden 15back here says they were not -- those wells are not leaking. 16I can tell you I have a copy of a letter to Senator 17Rockefeller from the DEP assuring him that those ponds -18those settling ponds were not leaking. 19says right in it. They did dye test, it It is on their letter head. 20Rockefeller those ponds are not leaking. 21fracking waste coming from. Senator So where are the I’m going to tell you they 22punched those wells down through the Saul Coal Mine, that’s 23not documented in that draft report. When they punched down 24through an abandon mine there’s void there and that void 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 04/21/2015 30 1cannot -- it opens up the ability of that stuff to travel 2through and another thing that they don’t talk about and it’s 3not included in there is the fact that when they shut those 4mines -- those injection wells down for a while because they 5had to -- they were under pressure and he needs to be thinking 6about this, but they shut it down for a while and then he goes 7out and tests and suddenly there is no more stuff coming up in 8the creek. Well the injection pressure is what pumping it 9back up the outside channel of the bore hole back up into that 10creek and it is bubbling up and you can see stuff bubbling up 11into that creek when you are out there. So Dr. Vengosh when 12he went out and proved conclusively that there is frack waste 13with radium 226 and 228 in that sediments of that creek and 14the DEP says it did not come from those settling ponds, it 15pretty much had to come from those wells. 16it. I mean, think about So let’s think about shutting those wells down and when 17Mary talks about taking this into our own hands and signing 18this petition, I’m telling you we are going to carry this to 19other counties, 750 of these travesties of nuclear waste 20sites, but they -- pro-public -- let me tell you this. A 21national magazine looked at the number of inspectors versus 22the number of wells here in West Virginia said each inspector 23had to inspect seven wells a day in order to inspect them once 24annually. That’s impossible. 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 So when they came up with all (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 04/21/2015 31 1of these weird things in the draft permit that are left open 2like is the mechanical integrity test done, is it good or not. 3It’s not the fault of the inspectors so much as it is the DEP 4and the Governor for not putting enough inspectors out there. 5They’re not funding these agencies -- they are underfunded. 6The DEP is never going to step up. The Department of Health 7and Human Resources is underfunded, they are never going to 8protect us. The EPA got raked over the coals back in 2012 by 9the GAO and said they are not doing due diligence on State 10oversight. Nobody is here to protect us except us, we 11ourselves and we can do this on a county level by passing 12county ordinances to stop industrial waste dumping. We are 13not a sacrifice son, let’s stop it here. 14 (APPLAUSE) 15 MS. GILLENWATER: We need to move on to another 16speaker now, could you just make your closing lines? 17 MR. RHULE: Yeah. Thank you. Anyway like I 18said I’m not running for office, not pushing a candidate on 19you, but I am the Communication Director for the Mountain 20Party. If you go to mountianpartywv.com and put the search 21term TENORM. These documents are going to be online, you know 22when I’m talking about the well reports, the things that I 23found. I spent a lot of money on Freedom of Information Act 24request and lied on them and they did not supply the right 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 04/21/2015 32 1documents and they are still stonewalling me and the EPA is 2too. So anyway don’t trust them, don’t even trust me, double 3check. Don’t trust Aiden, because he’s wrong. 4 MS. GILLENWATER: Thank you. Now we have Diane Pitcock 5followed by Levi Rose and Patricia Hamilton could also be 6prepared to be third. And again, right now we have Diane 7Pitcock. 8 Diane if you could state your name, again, and any 9organizations that you represent. 10 MS. PITCOCK: Good evening. My name is Diane 11Pitcock and I am a resident of Doddridge County, West 12Virginia. I’ve lived in West Virginia for about 10 years now 13and originally from Maryland. When I moved here I expected to 14retire, but our neighbor when he leased his mineral for 15several well pads on his surface and 27 horizontal legs, I 16decided I wanted to get interested in fracking and what it 17really means. 18 I’m not a scientist, but I am an educator by background, 19but I do surround myself with scientists because of my 20interest and my concern for the people of West Virginia. I 21started an organization called West Virginia Host Farm Program 22and some of you may have heard of it. My personal opinion is 23that because West Virginia is considered a sacrifice state and 24because of the favorable -- the pro-industry stance and I’m 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 04/21/2015 33 1not saying there is anything wrong with that to create jobs 2and so forth, but there is a lot of things going on that 3shouldn’t be happening here. Therefore, I started a program 4that is a grass roots effort and I’m a volunteer, I do not get 5paid. I put in a lot of hours and in the last three years we 6have attracted a lot of out of state researchers, because my 7point of view is this has been going on for so long with the 8DEP. If they don’t have the resources or the staff or the 9agenda to help find out what’s going into the ground and what 10is affecting these people in these communities then we can do 11it for them as a volunteer grass group effort. With that 12being said, I believe that the real interest is going to get 13people from outside the state to come here and help in the 14form of journalist, researchers, investigative reporters, and 15environmental groups. So when I started this program, I 16started networking, we have people in 14 different counties 17who are volunteers, if any of you want to help, I left my card 18at the table or look up our website wvhostfarms.org or our 19Facebook page. Basically what we are doing is getting people 20here to help, you mentioned Avner Vengosh at Duke University 21we got him here in 2012. For three years he was been doing 22baselines water samples in Doddridge County, before the drill 23bit hits the ground. We’ve had Cornell come an interest in 24doing surveys of cattle where they are going to hand air 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 04/21/2015 34 1monitors on cattle and their compressor stations and so forth. 2We’ve also had Carnegie Mellon do air quality and because I 3live in Doddridge and I’m at ground zero fracking the stuff 4that is being created there in the form of brine and waste 5water and drill cuttings and so forth. Dill cuttings are 6going to landfills, they are radioactive. We know that. 7That’s been proven and it’s going on and it’s an issue, but if 8that flow back and is coming up with the drill cuttings and so 9forth and the liquid form is going in the injection wells, 10it’s also radioactive. And as far as the injection well, a lot 11of people are here because they probably have a pretty good 12idea of the concerns. 13 MS. GILLENWATER: 14 MS. PITCOCK: Ms. Pitcock you need to -- Okay. And an injection well can 15only hold so much and then it is going to seep out and there 16is well -- the mechanical well integrity you have to worry 17about, I want to make the point that if DEP if it is so safe 18why do they keep blocking any scientific testing and 19especially from outside of the state -- labs outside of the 20state and what have you, that’s what we need. So if you want 21-- what we do is we get people that are at ground zero, we 22already have access to the adjacent property to that well so 23that we can start getting people in here to do the test. We 24are working with people in public health studies that is going 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 04/21/2015 35 1to take the town of Fayetteville and look at it as a public 2health study to as why this area has a highest cancer rate -3one of the highest cancer rates in certain kind of cancers. 4There’s got to be a reason, so we want to find that out and 5that’s why I say our interest lie outside the state getting 6people in here to do what the DEP and legislatures is not 7appear to be doing for us. 8 MS. GILLENWATER: And as Levi makes his way 9forward I have Kristen Hoecker and I apologize if I’m 10pronouncing that incorrectly and Leasha Trimble if you want to 11speak to the court reporter outside you are welcome to do so. 12 MR. ROSE: Good evening. My name is Levi Rose. 13I am an employee of the Plateau Action Network and also a 14graduate student at Appalachian State University. This 15evening I came with a speech that is about eight and half 16minutes long, but I’ll do my best to distill this in the time 17that I have. If you would like to hear science and facts 18tonight, please fill free to give your time. 19 This evening I would like to discuss some of the research 20and science that has been conducted in Wolf Creek along with 21water quality monitoring data collected downstream at Danny 22Webb’s UIC site. In November of 2009 a little over five years 23ago I was hired by the Plateau Action Network to work on 24restoring the health of the Wolf Creek watershed. 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 Wolf Creek (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 04/21/2015 36 1used to be the town of Fayetteville’s primary drinking water 2supply until the State deemed Wolf Creek impaired. 3Restoration efforts have been primarily focused on the 4remediation of acid mines drainage coming from the Summerlee 5site, but big strides have also been made in documenting waste 6water issues. Through an intensive water quality monitoring 7program I’ve gain valuable insights in the help of Wolf Creek, 8results of which was recently released in a watershed report. 9You can find this report on our website plateauaction.org. 10 I first heard about Danny Webb UIC site in 2009. At the 11time, I did not know much about the operations, which came 12into focus in 2013 during a process to renew a permit for one 13of two injection wells, one of the same wells that we are here 14tonight for. I started receiving reports from concerned 15citizens that Danny Webb’s operations might be contaminating 16headwater contributories of Wolf Creek. I decided to 17investigate these claims, and that I would like to share with 18you my findings and the research by others investigating the 19site. Last summer on June 12th, 2014, Tom Riff represented 20the appellants Bradley Keenan, Natural Resources Defendants 21Counsel, West Virginia Surface Owners Right Origination, and 22the Plateau Action Network in the appeal to the DEP regarding 23the reassurance of an underground injection control -24 MS. GILLENWATER: 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 Sir, another speaker has (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 04/21/2015 37 1deferred her two minutes to use, so even though your two 2minutes have just ended you have another two minutes. 3 MR. ROSE: Okay, I’ll keep rolling here. 4Several deficiencies with the permit were brought to the 5environmental quality board and we asked the board to reverse 6or vacate this permit altogether as legal and factual errors 7cannot possibly be remedied in order to bring this permit into 8compliance with state and federal law. Fast forward 10 months 9to April 8th, the environmental quality board finally issued a 10decision from our appeal. Four key issues were litigated and 11a final written brief and oral argument by Tom Rist, the board 12found that allowing Danny Webb Construction to operate without 13a permit was inconsistent with the law and ordered the DEP to 14regulate Danny Webb Construction’s underground injection 15control well by permit and not by rule. And I quote, “The 16West Virginia Department of Environmental Protection has 30 17days from entry of this order to bring Danny Webb Construction 18into compliance or otherwise require the operations to cease. 19They have until May 8th to do so.” However, the final order 20issued by the EQB only addressed three of the four issues, 21failing to even mention water quality impacts that were 22central to the appeal and that’s what I would like to spend my 23remaining time talking about. 24 MS. GILLENWATER: 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 You have one minute. (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 1 MR. ROSE: 04/21/2015 38 Several organizations and agencies 2have collected water quality samples down stream of Danny 3Webb’s UIC site including the US Geologic Survey, Duke 4University, Appalachian State University, Concord University, 5Down Stream Strategies, Mary Rahall, Bradley Keenan, and 6myself. The US Geologic Survey Toxic Substance Hydrology 7Program has included Danny Webb’s UIC site in a national study 8of looking at the disposal of unconventional oil and gas waste 9waters. I’ve collected water samples down stream of Danny 10Webb’s UIC site on six different occasions, twice in 2013, 11twice in 2014 and twice this year. The test included 12evaluating several parameters and on one occasion 124 13different parameters were analyzed. I have observed elevated 14levels of several dissolved constituents in the water such as 15chloride, bromide, sodium, magnesium, strontium, and barium. 16Additionally, other constituents that would not normally be 17found in the water were detected including methane gas, 18several glycol compounds and oil and grease. When the DEP was 19confronted with the results they stood firm that the pollution 20resulted from previous mining activities in the watershed and 21what many of the other have pointed out tonight sighting Dr. 22Avner Vengosh that the chemical composition of the two are not 23the same. 24 We took this a step further and also -MS. GILLENWATER: 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 You need to start with your (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 04/21/2015 39 1closing, please. 2 MR. ROSE: This is the homerun. We have also 3consulted with other experts including Dr. Lance Larson. Dr. 4Larson earned a dual Doctorate in Environmental Engineering 5and Bio Geo Chemistry from the Pennsylvania State University 6in 2013. His PhD research was on the environmental impact of 7acid mine drainage throughout western Pennsylvania and West 8Virginia, which included the Summerlee site. On January 6th 9of this year I collected samples from the Summerlee site and 10samples from Danny Webb’s operations to compare the chemical 11composition. Based on Dr. Larson’s expert opinion the results 12collected downstream of Danny Webb’s operation do not exhibit 13a chemical composition consistent with the elevated 14contaminate levels due to an acid mine drainage source. 15Instead elevated contaminate levels are consistent with 16previous samples taken at this location by Duke University 17researchers which concluded that contaminates were likely due 18to an oil and gas waste water source. Based upon the overall 19overwhelming evidence the science clearly indicates this site 20possess a hazard to human health and the environment. I urge 21the DEP to deny the UIC permits being applied for by Danny 22Webb Construction in order to protect the human health, the 23environment, and the state water researches. 24 MS. GILLENWATER: 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 Thank you. Patricia Hamilton followed by (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 04/21/2015 40 1Debra Hamilton and if we could also have Denise Scalph ready 2to go third. 3 First up again is Patricia Hamilton. MS. P. HAMILTON: Good evening. My sister, 4brother, and I grew up in Fayette County and due to the death 5of our parents in the past two years we are now owners of 6properties in Fayette County. Perception is reality. If 7there is even a perception that there are chemicals or other 8toxins being dumped and seeping into Wolf Creek, which will go 9into the New River it will damage the tourism that Fayette 10County is now so well known for. People have to be assured 11and right now they are clearly not assured that this fracking 12waste water is safe. 13drilling. 14site. Fayette County does not have shale It is of no economic benefit to become a dumping Fayette County is one of our cool progressive counties 15with a healthy outdoor lifestyle image. Becoming a dumping 16ground for real or perceived toxins will destroy that image. 17Fayette County’s future does not lie in becoming a dumping 18ground for the fracking waste water from another county or 19another state. 20 Back in the ‘60s Fayette County implemented planning and 21zoning recognizing that the coal industry was just about gone 22in the county and they needed to diversify of the economy. 23They are still one of only three counties in West Virginia 24that are planned and zoned. 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 That vision and for thought lead (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 04/21/2015 41 1to the protection of the New river Gorge, which later lead to 2the accomplishment of being selected for the high adventure 3base camp for the Boy Scouts. I cannot imagine why it was 4ever deemed appropriate to allow an injection site for 5fracking waste water in Fayette County. Again, perception is 6reality and we have no insurance that this chemical laced 7water is never going to do harm to the environment or to the 8people. 9here. I am baffled as to why waste water is being dumped There is absolutely no economic benefit and conversely 10there could be great economic harm. Speaking as a person who 11loves Fayette County there is no reason on God’s green earth 12to renew this permit. Thank you. 13 MS. GILLENWATER: Now we have Debra Hamilton. 14 MS. D. HAMILTON: One of the good things about 15being here is this is the first time that I have traveled with 16my sister to come to an environmental hearing, but I partly 17came here to learn because I had no idea that this was 18happening until the call for public hearing earlier this 19winter and I really do appreciate the many of you that have 20been learning and watching and being active, because those of 21us who love Fayette County, but aren’t here all the time 22really count on you to keep the DEP in doing what is right. 23And in terms of the DEP is it just the two of you that are in 24this room now? 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 1 MS. GILLENWATER: No. 04/21/2015 42 There are about eight 2people from the DEP in this -3 MS. D. HAMILTON: Could they introduce MS. P. HAMILTON: That are in the back or -- 4themselves. 5 6but who is in this room that -7 MS. GILLENWATER: We’re cutting into your time, 8we have about 15 more speaking -9 MS. P. HAMILTON: Is Nottingham here? 10 MS. GILLENWATER: Excuse me? 11 MS. P. HAMILTON: Is Mr. Nottingham here -- 12 MS. GILLENWATER: No. 13 MS. P. HAMILTON: -- with the oil and gas MS. GILLENWATER: No, the Chief of the Office 14division? 15 16of the Oil and Gas is not in attendance. 17 MS. P. HAMILTON: Because I guess, you know, I 18had written some words but they just kind of all went away as 19I sat here listening, because it’s really sad that so many 20people here assume nothing will be done that this permit will 21be granted and like my sister I am baffled. I understand the 22one person who stood in support and saying injecting it might 23be better than that junk just sitting on top of the surface, 24but I mean, is that our option that we have sludge, pounds of 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 04/21/2015 43 1muck that is been trucked into this county and the DEP just 2lets it sit there and our good option is to put it down where 3it can hit the ground water and go into the contributory. I 4understand above the intake for this area water, you know, and 5another thing I wanted to learn like I saw on Facebook that 6this explosion of a fracking injection site in Colorado and I 7hope you all saw that, because I wanted to know well, what is 8here was what was there that exploded this past weekend. 9mean, what kind of endangerment are we presenting here. I And I 10hear yes, it is that so I truly hope that when the DEP revokes 11that permit once, when they for some reason revoked it the day 12after they issued a renewal and then somehow in that 13revocation said oh, but you can keep doing it. You do have a 14chance to prove these people wrong to show that you are 15looking at what is good for the environment, what is good for 16the people. 17permit. I mean what is the motivation to give this There can’t be a political motivation other than the 18person that probably correctly said its better down there than 19up on top. 20 MS. GILLENWATER: You need to move to your MS. D. HAMILTON: Mr. Webb was here, and I 21closing. 22 23imagine he is for it. Is there anyone else in this room that 24thinks it is a good idea to bring oil and gas extraction into 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 1this county? 04/21/2015 44 I mean Fayette County is clean and green and it 2is common sense to do what is for the common good, because it 3is uncommon place. It is our national park. It is the place 4the Boy Scouts is going to bring people from all over the 5world to enjoy. It is the place we all enjoy and you have a 6chance to keep this county clean. 7 MS. GILLENWATER: On her way up front, Sally 8Savage is up next and if Sally could be ready as well and next 9up again we have Denise Scalph. 10 And as Denise is making her way to the front I do want to 11issue a reminder we have an information station outside if you 12have specific questions about this permit or the permitting 13process in general and want to speak directly to a DEP 14representative and meet some of those DEP representatives. 15They are right outside and if time permitting they will be 16here a few minutes after this portion of the hearing 17concludes. 18 MS. SCALPH: Thank you. On behalf of Fayette 19County Commission we have a letter that we will be submitting 20when I make my comment. 21 AUDIENCE SPEAKER: 22 MS. SCALPH: Speak up we can’t hear you. When I make my comments and I will 23submit this letter on behalf of Fayette County Commission to 24the DEP. I will keep them brief, not reading the entire 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 04/21/2015 45 1letter, but I would like to share some of it with you. 2 I am Denise Scalph and I am President of the Fayette 3County Commission. As elected leaders the Fayette County 4Commission foremost responsibility is the health and safety of 5our citizens. We the commissioners are not chemists, but an 6advantaged -- but an advanced degree is not required to 7understand the fluids that are brought to the surface in 8connection with conventional oil or natural gas production. 9Have the potential to ignite therefore a threat to our public 10health. By failing to require this disclosure of the possible 11constituents of this waste fluid as part of the permitting 12process the WV DEP puts the health and safety of Fayette 13County citizens at risk. Without the necessary material 14safety data sheets about the chemicals being hauled through 15our communities, emergency workers are placed at a definitely 16disadvantage. First responders and health care providers 17cannot effective prepare to mitigate or protect themselves 18from a disaster involving these fluids. The threats to public 19safety endangered by the transportation of accrue and an 20industrial waste fluid throughout communities is alone enough 21to warrant for their examination. Even more significantly 22Danny Webb Construction underground injections wells are 23adjacent to Wolf Creek, major contributories to the lower New 24River whose mouth is only one mile upstream from the drinking 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 04/21/2015 46 1water intake that serves 40 percent of these counties 2residents. The potential threat to our virtual drinking water 3is not acceptable. Beyond a threat to public health we must 4also consider the impact that an industrial spill would have 5on our local tourism economy. Tourism generates almost six 6million dollars per year in spending for our local economy and 7is dependent on clean vibrant communities. Allowing fluids to 8produce in association with oil and gas productions to be 9exempt from the regulatory structures are designed for 10hazardous substances protect industry profits and not West 11Virginians. The burden of approving that these waste 12materials do not pose a hazardous risk to our citizens is the 13responsibility of the WV DEP. 14 To that end -- (APPLAUSE) 15 MS. SCALPH: 16 MS. GILLENWATER: 17 MS. SCALPH: Thank you. Yes. Start making your close. Yes, ma’am. To that end and 18I will close because I want to allow other people to weigh in 19on this issue. To that end and by allowing Danny Webb’s 20Construction to operate without a permit the West Virginia DEP 21Office of Oil and Gas has demonstrated in our opinion 22inadequate oversight and the Fayette County Commission 23strongly opposes the renewal of these permits in this county. 24 MS. GILLENWATER: 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 Sally Savage and following (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 04/21/2015 1Sally will be J. Morgan Leach and then just Jeff Proctor. 47 But 2again, first up Sally Savage. 3 MS. SAVAGE: 4about this situation. I just want to say a few words My background is that I live one 5mountain top over from where the well is located and up until 6the time -- right after they started putting all of the 7solution down in the ground, I could go on the back of the lot 8behind my -- what was my husband’s office place and the smell 9that would be held down by cool air of the mornings would be 10enough that from the time I put my garbage in the garbage 11container and got back to the home, I was so nauseated from 12the smell of the gas, I guess that was coming from that area 13that I couldn’t hardly keep from being very sick. 14 I don’t have a lot of statistics to report to you or 15anything, but I was also told by some people that what they 16were putting down in the wells was the salt brine. Well, my 17question is if they’re putting a salt solution down into the 18mine it’s my understanding that salt will eat away at wood. 19Well, they’ve got a lot of old timbers that’s the only thing 20that is holding up the mine roof, so if they are putting a 21salt brine in there and its eating away at those timbers the 22future of Fayette County is that we are going to be one big 23sink hole. I’ve lived there for 35 years on top of my 24mountain and its just discussing to think that our officials 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 04/21/2015 48 1in government and in the national government will let somebody 2continue to do that to the community of Lochgelly and its 3large effect on our drinking and water system and every other 4facet of our air. I don’t have a lot to say and it took a lot 5for me to get up here to even say this, but you just have to 6imagine we don’t want Fayette County to be one large sink hole 7on national TV someday when all of those timbers start falling 8in. And if it is true that that’s what they are putting in 9there, besides all the chemicals getting into the water 10system, because I’ve heard of a lot of people who have come 11down with cancer. 12 MS. GILLENWATER: Ms. Savage, you need to start 13your closing. 14 MS. SAVAGE: Okay. I think it is wonderful 15that all of you have come out here tonight, usually I don’t 16get involved, but there comes a time in all of our lives where 17you have to stand up and say we are not taking this anymore, 18big government is out the door. 19 MS. GILLENWATER: Alright. Next we have J. 20Morgan Leach and followed by is Jeff Proctor and then Danny 21Webb, so if J. Morgan Leach can make your way to the front. 22 MR. LEACH: Hello. My name is J. Morgan Leach. 23I’m a second year student at the West Virginia University 24College of Law. I study energy and sustainable development, 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 04/21/2015 49 1so we study these types of issues every day in the classroom 2and this is a great opportunity for everybody to get out and 3see what happens every alley. I think in reality we can all 4agree that there is not enough data to be able to understand 5what the long term impact of this injection well might be. I 6think everybody can agree on that and I think when you take 7that into consideration and you read the exact language in the 8permit by the DEP under section 5 -- or Section H No. 5, if 9there is no proper operation in maintenance there is a duty to 10disclose that these problems are occurring and I don’t believe 11that they can issue this permit without that knowledge. And I 12think that is the most important thing that we can do is to 13come out here and participate. 14fixing this issue. Public awareness is the key to It’s not the DEP’s fault. 15with both hands tied behind their back. They’re working This is the 16governor’s office’s problem and they need to set the tone for 17compliance and enforcement to protect places like 18Fayetteville. So I think that you know with the work like 19Kelley Kernan (sic) here who has been working on documentaries 20and putting together a spectacle for everybody to see to 21understand these issues. I think that is the most important 22thing that we can do and thanks for having me out here. 23 24his way up. MS. GILLENWATER: And Jeff Proctor is making Tresha Plumley, I just wanted to say if you want 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 04/21/2015 50 1to make your comments to the court reporter outside and also 2Matt McQueen and Thomas Koontz. Thomas actually signed up for 3either or, so I’ll call your name here as well. But again we 4have Jeff Proctor up and then Danny Webb. 5 MR. PROCTOR: I’m Jeff Proctor. I’m 6representing Adventures on the Gorge, one of the larger 7employers in this county. Over the last 35 years the National 8Park Service has invested millions of dollars creating the New 9River Gorge National River studying, purchasing land, building 10infrastructure and protecting one of West Virginia’s natural 11wonders the New River Gorge. 12started in the early ‘70s. The whitewater rafting industry This growing tourism industry 13which depends on the New River Gorge has promoted the area in 14the State of West Virginia and created hundreds of jobs in 15Fayette County and the surrounding counties. 16 West Virginia American Water made a 45 million dollar 17investment in Fayette County water system. The intake for 18this water system is directly below Wolf Creek -- or is in 19Wolf Creek -- or below Wolf Creek contributory which Danny 20Webb Construction wells drain. The water system services are 2130,000 residents and hundreds of businesses. The Boy Scotts 22of America did an exhaustive search for a new national camp 23and chose Fayette County. The main reason they chose Fayette 24County was they picked the New River Gorge. 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 The Boy Scotts of (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 04/21/2015 51 1America has invested over 400 million and will continue to 2invest for years to come. They have only scratched the 3surface of creating hundreds of jobs and creating millions of 4memories for scouts and families. 5 I’m here to voice my concern about renewing Danny Webb’s 6Construction UIC permit. We can debate whether the geology 7will contain the waste water or whether the casings will ever 8erode or crack or whether the fracking liquid has hazards. 9There were supposed to be -- there are supposed to be laws and 10regulations, inspections and other controls to insure the 11environment will not be contaminated. Unfortunately, casing 12crack or oxidize, law and regulations change, funding for 13inspections go up and down, does anyone believe that in the 14next hundred years the contents of this well won’t get out 15into our system? 16 MS. GILLENWATER: Sir, you are going to have to 17start your conclusion. 18 19water? MR. PROCTOR: How will that affect our drinking the national park, the tourism industry, the Boy 20Scotts of America, I can tell you well it won’t be pretty in 21the news. How will we insure that the New River Gorge, the 22tourism industry, the West Virginia American Water System and 23the Boy Scott of America are not adversely affect. Whether 24the DEP grants or denies this permit the only way we will 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 04/21/2015 52 1safeguard our water, river, tourism and business community is 2to ask our legislators to pass a law restricting this kind of 3activity within the National Park wetlands and protect any 4stream that potentially contaminate our water. 5 MS, GILLENWATER: 6followed by Gabriel Pena. Thank you. Next we have Danny Webb And then if Tom Koontz if you are 7speaking to the auditorium group if you can make your way 8forward as well. 9 Mr. Webb? 10 Right now Danny Webb. Alright, Gabriel Pena are you here? MR. PENA: 11being here this evening. Good evening, thank you all for I appreciate seeing that there are 12so many concerned citizens here in Fayette County. This area 13has struggled for a long time with the coal companies having 14their way with the New River Gorge. And not that industry 15hasn’t built a strong economy, and help support this area in 16the past, but we have moved beyond that and now our economy is 17based on tourism. Only tourism, but our local food economy, 18our small farmers are starting to make a comeback here in 19Fayette County. It makes no sense whatsoever to put our most 20vital resource, water at risk especially in this county where 21we depend on the white water industry and will grow to depend 22on local agriculture. This type of pollution undermines that 23which we have invested in since 1963 when Wild Water 24Industries came and made southern West Virginia their home to 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 04/21/2015 53 1open a new industry that seeks to utilize our resources and 2preserve them for the future of this industry and for this 3area. I implore the DEP to not, to no longer permit this type 4of pollution, these types of injection wells into areas that 5are so vulnerable, areas that are so importance to the 6economic growth of Southern West Virginia and Central 7Appalachia. Thank you. 8 MS. GILLENWATER: One more -- one more call for 9Danny Webb and if Danny Webb is not available then Thomas 10Koontz. 11 Danny Webb. Alright, Thomas Koontz. On deck behind Mr. Koontz is Meredith Gregg, followed by 12what looks like Tiyhe Bullock. 13 MR. KOONTZ: Thank you all for coming. My name 14is Thomas Koontz, I’m a real estate broker, appraiser, real 15estate investor in Fayette County. 16 (AUDIENCE SPEAKER): Pull the microphone over 17so we can hear you. 18 MR. KOONTZ: 19Fayette County. And I was born 76 years ago in Didn’t know how lucky I was to have been born 20here until I got out and saw some of the rest of country and I 21know this is one of the most beautiful spots in the entire 22world. I have always thought that we had a moral imperative 23to turn the land over to our following generations in at least 24good of a condition that we received it and certainly we have 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 04/21/2015 54 1seen through various types of activities and by not opposing 2it that has not been the case. 3done by mountaintop removal. We have seen the damage been We also know how well 4corporations maintain their obligation to our communities just 5by the Freedom spill down in the Elk River and that great 6disruption we can truly see how competent they are to have 7managed that. There’s another aspect as terrible as the water 8pollution is, there’s another aspect that I don’t think that 9has been brought up. There is strong evidence to indicate in 10Oklahoma for example the number of earthquakes and severity of 11earthquakes is astounding, we’re talking about five times at 12least the severity and obviously this isn’t something that we 13want here in Fayette County. I don’t think anyone would agree 14with it in the whole county if they know they whole story. In 15fact, you all are getting it out and I appreciate getting all 16the additional information I had by coming to this meeting. 17Thank you very much. 18 MS. GILLENWATER: Okay. Meredith Gregg 19followed by Tiyhe Bullock and Matt Wender. 20 MS. GREGG. I am a property owner on Wolf Creek 21and in 2004 -- I’m also a previous member of Plateau Action 22Network or PAN. 23 In 2004, I heard about the problems with the injection 24well and was outraged then and shocked here we are 13 years 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 04/21/2015 55 1later and we are still having issues and actually that they 2are saying that they are going to make this -- let this permit 3go through. What I don’t understand is a couple of things. 4They say here in the Danny Webb permit fact sheet all the 5permitting action, but I want to know about the actions of 6repeated offenses and violations that they have done and if 7corporations are supposed to be people and when people violate 8the laws repeatedly they are put into jail and why for some 9reason these are overlooked that this has been a negligent 10company that has constantly been -- we have been fighting to 11stop doing the negligent and problematic actions is shocking 12to me. The lack of regulatory oversight and enforcement of 13this site by the DEP is an insult to the residents of this 14area and of West Virginia and Tomblin has to take a rule in 15this and I applaud that County Commissioners we need to put 16some bite in our words and let’s get this corrected. 17 MS. GILLENWATER: Tiyhe Bullock and then again 18after that is Matt Wender and then Autumn Bryson. Up next 19Tiyhe Bullock. 20 And just a reminder, please, when you get up to the 21microphone, again, state your name. Don’t trust my 22pronunciation and any affiliations that you are representing 23here tonight. 24 MR. BULLOCK: 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 Hi everybody. Really, I just (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 04/21/2015 56 1want to thank everyone first of all for you coming out here 2and it’s great to see people out here with such compassion and 3conviction. You know I trust that the DEP will listen to our 4voices and do the right thing in the end. 5 My name is Tiyhe Bullock and I’m a City Councilman in 6Thurman and a lifelong friend of the New River. Based on I 7think what everyone has been saying tonight, you know, the 8facts are clear, but my question is how is the Department of 9Environmental Protection protecting us by reissuing this 10permit. If the Department of Environmental Protection won’t 11protect our environment we must do ourselves, whether it’s 12through a county ordinance or on a statewide level through the 13legislature. Honestly, I think it is shameful that we even 14have to be here tonight to ask our government to enforce laws, 15but for now we need to remain persistent and our insistence 16that the Department of Environmental Protection do the job 17that our citizens has tasked us with, environmental protection 18not permit protection. 19 Thank you. (AUDIENCE SPEAKER): We want to hear from 20Danny. 21 MS. GILLENWATER: Matt Wender followed by 22Autumn Bryson. 23 MR. WENDER: My name is Matt Wender. 24member of the Fayette County Commission. 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 I am a I would like to (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 04/21/2015 57 1express my appreciation to the DEP for the difficulty they 2have gone through in rescheduling this hearing due to the 3weather delays that we’ve had, certainly during that time we 4wouldn’t have had this kind of turnout. But I also appreciate 5the fact that you have made it possible for us who chose to 6direct our comments to the larger context of the manner in 7which the DEP has managed the permitting and operational 8aspect of Danny Webb’s injection well permit. 9 During the recent legislative session I read with great 10interest the active involvement by the DEP in fighting any 11curtailment in the water protection provisions that came about 12last year following the chemical tank failure resulting in the 13pollution of the Kanawha River and the thousands of water 14customers. I read with interest and approval the advocacy by 15DEP Director Randy Huffman arguing against any rollback of 16that wall. My question, perhaps my skepticism was this 17sincere on was it only because the state’s largest newspaper 18was closely following the legislature and any response by the 19DEP. Certainly that vigilance on the part of DEP has been 20lacking in the permitting and monitoring of the injection 21wells here at Lochgelly. One can only ask is this public 22outcry by the DEP reserved for closely covered news stories, 23what about rural West Virginia with this story is not in our 24State’s capitol and unfortunately not a high profile. 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 1 04/21/2015 58 On February 5th, 2014, which was seven months following 2the prior hearing that took place here on the Danny Webb 3permit the Fayette County Commission addressed a letter to the 4attention of Randy Huffman and I would like to read part of 5that letter as I requested at that time it was important to 6the citizens of Fayette County. 7 Dear Secretary Huffman. 8two permits. It is written referenced to the This past June a hearing was held in Oak Hill to 9take public testimony relevant to the removal of the above 10permits. At that hearing it was pointed out that Danny Webb 11Construction was continue to operate although the permit had 12expired nine months prior. Your officials heard numerous 13individuals testify about health concerns, environmental 14issues, non-compliance with the requirements of operating this 15injection well. 16 Now, seven addition months has passed and we are advised 17the permits have not been reviewed by the Division of the 18Environmental Protection. This matter justifiably has caused 19great concerned of the citizens of Fayette County. Those 20anxieties are further execrated by the unknown reasons for the 21permit delay. Meanwhile, the operator Mr. Danny Webb has been 22allowed to continue to dispose of unknown fracking fluids out 23our compliance and operating under permits that are out of 24date and expired. Even under terms of strict compliance there 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 04/21/2015 59 1are many rational reasons the public should be concerned about 2the health and environmental consequences of this prude 3disposal method. 4 The letter goes on we would like Mr. Huffman to come to a 5Commission meeting, which did not happen and it concludes with 6a comment never has there been such a public lack of 7confidence in the agency entrusted to ensure the public 8safety, protect our fragile environment and administer the 9laws of the State of West Virginia. 10 Well, we did receive a reply to that letter which address 11the remedial actions taken by DEP, but there was no 12substantive reason whatsoever given for the 16 month delay 13during which the operation was continued -- was allowed to 14continue and there was no permit issued. 15 I would ask with a long time have lapsed if the 16Charleston Gazette showed that much interest in this issue as 17they have in the failed chemical tanks along the Elk River. 18Perhaps the bigger question is, who does the agency represent? 19Is it anywhere consistent with the name The Department of 20Environmental Protection? Does the environment matter? Does 21the citizens of welfare matter or is it to run interference 22for the energy industry when no one else is really looking. 23urge you to exercise the authority that you have and to close I 24that injection well. 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 Thank you. (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 1 MS. GILLENWATER: 04/21/2015 60 Another call for Danny Webb 2is here if Danny Webb could make his way up front, but next up 3again is Autumn Bryson and if Danny Webb is not here Autumn 4will be followed by Erin Board. 5 AUDIENCE SPEAKER: Oh, Danny is not here. 6 AUDIENCE SPEAKER: Go get him. Tell him to get 7in here we want an answer. 8 AUDIENCE PARTICIPANTS: 9 (PARTICIPANTS SPEAKING OUT OF ORDER). 10 AUDIENCE SPEAKER: Yeah. Yeah. I will gladly give up my 11spot if he wants to come and take my place. 12 MS. BRYSON: My name is Autumn Bryson. 13environmental scientist and I’m from Greenbrier County. 14grew up rafting in the New River. I’m an I I just wanted to ask the 15DEP before issuing this permit the DEP needs to test the waste 16water being injected into the well. 17 In addition the new by streams and ground water needs to 18be tested for biocides, which is -- glutaraldehyde including 19diamers and triamers. Also analyze for ethoxylated 20surfactant, xylene, hydrocarbons, ammonium and bromide and 21iodine. These contaminates are highly toxic to humans and 22aquatic life. When drinking water plants use water containing 23these contaminates they run a danger that during disinfection 24halides will become incorporated into organic matter and form 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 04/21/2015 61 1carcinogens cancer causing agents. Additionally, waste water 2should be tested for radioactive including radium 226 and 228. 3Waste that contain these contaminates should not be permitted 4to injected underground contaminating drinking water sources 5and recreational water that this community depends on. Radium 6226 has a half-life about 1600 years and no one wants to see 7one of the oldest rivers in the world turned into a 8radioactive waste site. 9 What goes into these injection wells does not always stay 10in the injection wells. From what I’ve heard tonight from 11other researchers, experts, and local citizens it’s time for 12the DEP to shut this well down for good and protect the people 13and water of Fayette County. 14 Thank you. MS. GILLENWATER: Next up is Erin Board and 15Erin will be followed and I only have a single name here, 16Dalporto -17 MR. DALPORTO: 18 MS. GILLENWATER: 19 MS. BOARD: That’s me. Hi. -- and then Rob Goodwin. Okay. Before I get started 20are the people with the DEP would you raise your hand, so I 21know who I’m talking to? 22 AUDIENCE SPEAKER: We can’t hear you. 23 MS. BOARD: I just asked the DEP members Okay. 24to raise their hands, so I could see who I was addressing my 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 04/21/2015 62 1comments to. 2 MS. GILLENWATER: There are also several out in 3the cafeteria. 4 MS. BOARD: Okay. So my name is Erin Board and 5I am a medical student here, I graduate next month and I will 6be a family physician and I also have my Masters in Public 7Health. I just want to thank very much the DEP for arranging 8for this public comments and the work they have done so far. 9So you know from a public health point of view the world 10health origination says there are a couple fundamental 11conditions for health. 12my notes, hold on. In order to achieve health -- I lost So of these there is education, okay, 13income, human developmental sustainability, peace, shelter, 14social justice, and environmental sustainability. If you look 15at these factors and you map it out across the country the 16areas that are doing the worse are the areas that has the 17worse health outcomes and Southern West Virginia is one of 18those areas. And this is really good example of an 19opportunity to protect our environment to try and increase our 20health outcomes, which, you know, the rule of the EPA. And 21while the EPA is getting a lot of input from the more educated 22citizens in this county who they are not hearing from are my 23patients that are lying in the ICU that are dying from coal 24worker’s pneumoconiosis and other diseases like that are just 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 1highlight this area vulnerability. 04/21/2015 63 And so with that 2population in mind it is very important that the EPA takes 3into consideration of the potential health impact of these 4injection wells. So in conclusion, it looks like my time is 5wrapping up, I did like it’s obvious that the public is well 6strong and the EPA’s ability to regulate this company, but I 7actually believe that the EPA can do this and can do this 8successfully given the right opportunity. Perhaps that comes 9in the form of allowing the permit, but just not here and 10requiring them to change the site of the injection well, I 11don’t know, maybe to D.C. 12 13 (APPLAUSE) MS. BOARD: So other place but maybe not in 14West Virginia, which has like the Swiss cheese rock 15formations, right? And I think that it is important to 16protect our jobs, what jobs we have, so hopefully we will be 17able to come to a solution that protects the environment and 18protects the people and protects the vulnerable population of 19Southern West Virginia and thank you again the DEP. 20 MS. GILLENWATER: Next we have Dalporto 21followed by Rob Goodwin and Terrance Leggett. 22 Do we have someone a Mr. or Ms. Dalporto? If not we will 23move on to Rob Goodwin. 24 MR. GOODWIN: 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 Thank you all for coming out this (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 1evening. 04/21/2015 64 My name is Rob Goodwin, I’m a Policy Specialist with 2the West Virginia River Coalition and I come here tonight with 3a very simply message. 4clear. Our position on this is crisp and This site on this proposed reassurance of the Danny 5Webb injection well is in violation, you know, not in 6consistency with our policy. These types of operations shall 7not exist in a source water protection area. 8conclusion for two reasons. We come to this Our rivers are a threat. We get 9our water from the West Virginia American Water Regional 10intake, which only is a few miles downstream from this Danny 11Webb well. We talk about water quality in our rivers, we talk 12about two things, what’s in the water and what could get into 13the water. 14 The Danny Webb well has been proven over time to 15discharge contaminates into Wolf Creek. 16that eventually got partially remediated. There were some ponds 17ponds need to be completely remediated. We think those We need full complete 18soil removal there to insure there are no contaminates 19continuing to leak into Wolf Creek and get into the New River 20Gorge, the national river, and the West Virginia American 21Water Regional intakes. Secondly, we need to stop injecting 22more fluid into this well and we can do that by not reissuing 23this permit. The reason we must stop injecting more fluid 24into this well is because we will never know the answers as to 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 1whether the casing could fail. 04/21/2015 65 Whether a truck will tip over, 2never get into the West Virginia American Water Regional 3intake that we all. 4questions. So we will never know the answer to these The only way we can stop those things from 5happening and reduce the risk as much as possible is by stop 6injecting into this well. We can spend millions and millions 7of dollars on a petroleum engineer and take years and years 8and years and spend state resources and federal resources to 9do it. I guarantee we would still never know whether this 10thing is safe and whether the risk to our water and the New 11River National River has been effectively eliminated. So by 12that I encourage the DEP to step forward and deploy the 13precautionary principal here and just reject this thing 14because -- not because of what they know, but what they don’t 15know. There are too many unanswered questions that we will 16never know the answers to, but the answer to the question we 17do know is that everyone in this room right now doesn’t want 18this to happen and this is in conflict with economic 19opportunity and the great things that can happen in Fayette 20County and we do not lose anything by not injecting more fluid 21into this well, so I urge now of this permit reissuance. 22 MS. GILLENWATER: We heard from Mr. Dalporto 23and he is deferring his time to Paul Brown, as in the Paul 24Brown who wishes to speak if you could make your way up to the 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 1front. 04/21/2015 66 And also Terrance Leggett has deferred his time to 2end, so if we have one more speaker at the end I will ask for 3a show of hands and then if we have a hand up, the first hand 4that I see I guess will probably. Okay, I see the gentleman 5in the red hat was the first one that I saw. 6 And also after Mr. Brown if Tom Campbell and James -- and 7I apologize for the pronunciation Tourje could make your way 8-- or Tourje make your way to the front. Thank you. 9 Folks my name is MR. BROWN: 10Paul Porter Brown. Good evening. I am the President of The Keeper of the 11Mountains Foundation and while I came here tonight more as a 12witness and not prepared to speak, I do have a few things I 13would like to say. First off, I would like to just echo 14everything that Mr. Goodwin just spoke particularly the 15precautionary principal. Now, when we don’t have any answers 16to things and when our government allows corporations to hide 17the contents of what is being dumped into these wells, I think 18there is a good reason for us to be concerned. You know there 19is a quote that says that Secrecy is the greatest threat to 20democracy. Secrecy is also has been a great threat to the 21health and well-being of the people of West Virginia and it’s 22gone on for far too long. 23 24 (APPLAUSE) MR. BROWN: 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 Our waters have been repeatedly (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 04/21/2015 67 1compromised by these industries and its death by a thousand 2paper cuts. How much more do we want to risk our well-being 3and our water, because folks when it’s gone, it’s gone. We 4live on a little blue ball flying through space, nobody is 5bring us more water and I’m going to ask in closing, first 6that the DEP protect the environment and the people for this 7state for once. Second, if the DEP refuses to do it, I ask 8you to join me as citizens to stand at the gate of Danny 9Webb’s operation and say no more. 10 MS. GILLENWATER: I did actually have Tom 11Campbell, but I actually have a note that Mr. Campbell has 12opted not to speak after all, so James Tourje or Tourje. 13 MR. TOURJE: 14 MS. GILLENWATER: Tourje. Tourje. Alright, and then if 15the gentleman in the red hat could make his way to the front 16and put your name on the list we will get you up next and that 17is our last speaker of the evening, unless I have missed 18anyone and if so I will give you the opportunity to speak if 19your name is on the list. 20 MR. TOURJE: Again, public speaking is not my 21forte, but my name is James Tourje and you guys should be able 22to trust this stuff (indicating personal water bottle). 23is water that came out of a tap in Oak Hill. This You should be 24able to trust it and you don’t have to question it, because 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 04/21/2015 68 1the Department of Environmental Quality or Protection or 2whatever you want to call them has serious conflicts of 3interest. There is big money in here and guess what it’s not 4benefiting any of us. So I would like for somebody to step up 5at the Department of Environmental Quality and maybe fire 6themselves or do something. 7 8 (APPLAUSE) MR. TOURJE: But in closing -- in closing guys 9this is a start we need to keep the ball rolling. 10just sit back and do nothing. 11 You cannot Thank you. MS. GILLENWATER: Our final speaker unless 12again if I have missed someone and I will give you the 13opportunity if you will let me know that, but our last speaker 14that I have on my list is Tug Chamberlin. 15 MR. CHAMBERLIN: I didn’t come prepared to 16speak tonight, but after listening to so many good arguments 17to not re-permit this, given the opportunity I’m going to say 18something. 19passion. I don’t have facts or figures put what I have is The gentleman that spoke a couple incidents before 20me talked about water and why we are not going to have 21anymore. The next big war on this planet will not be fought 22over oil. It will be fought over water. 23of water. We in West Virginia take for granted the water that 24we have. We are running out I’m an instructor in high school. 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 I asked my (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 04/21/2015 69 1students one day, “Where do you get your water?” Do you know 2what the answer was, the faucet. Seriously, think about that. 3You people -- most of you folks know where our water comes 4from, because you are here, you care. Most people don’t. 5have a tremendous resource in West Virginia in water. 6lived out West. We I’ve I’ve seen people go and get bent out of shape 7because the Colorado River Compact promised them water in 1922 8and in 1999 they still didn’t have water they were promised. 9We don’t know how lucky we have it here. 10Danny Webb crap in our water. 11 (APPLAUSE) 12 MR. CHAMBERLIN: Why let someone like It’s absolutely horrid -- -- that the DEP doesn’t do a 13dag nab thing about it. 14 (APPLAUSE) 15 MR. CHAMBERLIN: 16does this go on? A lot of questions like why Well, there is somebody in Charleston with 17their pocket like this (indicating) and there is somebody else 18putting their hand in that pocket. That’s why it happens. 19Mr. Winter has the best -20 (PARTICIPANTS TALKING OUT OF TURN). 21 MR. CHAMBERLIN: 22own rights. -- we have to stand up for our They’re not going to do it and nobody else is 23going to do it for us. We need to stop it, not only in 24Fayette County and make it an ordinance we need to stop it in 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 04/21/2015 70 1West Virginia. 2 (APPLAUSE) 3 MR. CHAMBERLIN: 4crap from New York State here. There is no reason why we get You know why we get it from 5New York State here, because they won’t let them put it in the 6ground in New York State. 7 AUDIENCE SPEAKER: That’s right same thing in 8Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Kentucky. 9 MR. CHAMBERLIN: I know my time is up, and I’m 10the last one and some of you guys haven’t had dinner -11 (PARTICIPANTS SPEAKING OUT OF ORDER). 12 MR. CHAMBERLIN: They are right there, but they 13don’t do much other than moderate. But any how guys, let’s 14stand up ourselves, let’s make this a political issue within 15the county and let’s change the laws where we can and where we 16have impact and not rely on West Virginia to do it. 17very much. Thank you You guys have a great evening. 18 (APPLAUSE) 19 AUDIENCE SPEAKER: We want Danny Webb. 20 AUDIENCE SPEAKER: We want Danny Webb. 21 (PARTICIPANTS SPEAKING OUT OF ORDER) 22 MS. GILLENWATER: Excuse me. Excuse me. We do 23need -- if I missed any speakers, anyone who signed up to 24speak and I overlooked your name, please raise your hand. 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 1 2 04/21/2015 71 (No audible response given by hearing participants.) MS. GILLENWATER: Okay. I need to read this 3ending and also to let you know that our information station 4will remain open for another 15 minutes, so if you want to 5stop by the information stations. 6 And also if you want to submit a written comment we will 7accept those until May 1st. The address and the email address 8is on the front of the sign-in table. 9 At this time, we are concluding the public speaking 10portion of our hearing on the Danny Webb permit application, 11UIC 2D0190460 and UIC 2D0190508 and again, if anyone wants to 12make a written comment you have until May 1st. 13 (PARTICIPANTS SPEAKING OUT OF ORDER). 14 MS. GILLENWATER: Thank you for your 15participation in tonight’s hearing. Have a safe trip home and 16evening tonight. 17 18 *****HEARING CONCLUDED AT 8:07 P.M.***** 19 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 04/21/2015 72 IN THE STATE OF WEST VIRGINIA I, Catherine A. Altizer, Notary Public within and for the State of West Virginia, duly commissioned and qualified, do hereby certify that the foregoing PUBLIC HEARING, DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL was duly taken by and before me, under the West Virginia Rules of Civil Procedure, at the time and place and for the purpose specified in the caption thereof. I do certify that the said open speaking event was correctly taken by me by means of stenomask and speech recognition; which is reduced to written form under my direction and supervision, and that this is, to the best of my knowledge and belief, a true and correct transcript of the proceedings and comments by said participants, and meets the requirements set forth within article 27, chapter 47 of the West Virginia Code. I further certify that I am not connected by blood or marriage with any of the parties to this action, am not a relative or employee or attorney or counsel of any of the parties, nor am I a relative or employee of such attorney or counsel, or financially interested in the action, or 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 (304) 342-4758 1DANNY WEBB CONSTRUCTION UIC PERMIT RENEWAL 04/21/2015 73 interested, directly or indirectly, in the matter in controversy. Given under my hand this 27th day of April 2015. My commission expires June 7, 2017. _________________________ Catherine A. Altizer, Court Reporter, And Notary Public 2MEEKS REPORTING, LLC 3Post Office Box 1852 4Charleston, West Virginia 25327 (304) 342-4758