1 1 SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE 2 U. S . SENATE 3 WASH I NGTON , D.C. 4 5 6 INTERVIEW OF : 7 ROBERT GOLDSTONE 8 9 10 11 FRIDAY, DECEMBER 1 5 , 20 1 7 12 WASHINGTON , D. C . 13 14 15 16 17 The interview in t h i s mat t er was held a t t he 1 8 U. S . Capi t ol Building, 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 9 : 39 a . m. , commencing a t 2 1 APPEARANCES : 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITT EE : J ason Fos t e r, Ch i e f I nves tig a ti ve Counsel , Chairman Grass l ey Pa trick Davi s , Deputy Chief I nvest i gat i ve Co unsel , Chairman Grassley Lee Holmes , Chi e f Cou n sel , Senator Graham Bri an Pri vo r, Seni o r Counsel, Senator Feinstein He at her Sawye r, Genera l Counsel , Senator Feinstein Mo lly M. Cla f li n, Cou n sel , Senator Feinstein Lara G. Qu i nt , Ch i ef Counsel, Sena t o r Whitehouse Jennifer Duck , St a ff Director , Senator Feinstein FOR THE WI TNESS : 20 G. Robert Gage , Jr. , Esq. 21 Berna r d W. Ozarowski, III, Esq . 22 ALSO PRESENT : 23 Sena t or Rich a rd Blumentha l 24 Daniel P . Parker , I nvest igat i ve Assistant , 25 Ch ai r man Gr ass le y 3 I N D E X 1 2 EXAMI NAT I ON BY 3 COUNSE L FOR THE MAJORI TY: 4 By Mr . Davis 5 By Mr . Foster PAGE 3, 1 2 3 , 145 , 154 , 158 64 , 1 44 , 1 53 , 1 58 , 244 6 7 COUNSEL FOR THE MINORI TY 8 By Mr . Privor 6 4 , 1 01, 1 07 , 11 0 , 11 3 9 11 8 , 1 58 , 1 72 , 1 79 , 1 85 10 191 , 196 , 20 6 , 2 10 , 2 17 11 223 12 By Ms . Sawyer 1 00 , 1 06 , 1 09 , 11 2 , 11 6 13 16 9 , 176 , 183 , 190 , 193 14 2 05 , 21 6 15 22 1 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 By Ms . Claflin 24 1 4 EXHIBITS 1 2 GOLDSTONE EXHIBITS 3 Exhibit 1 4 5 6 7 8 11 12 Exh i b i t 2 15 16 17 18 Exhibit 3 Exh i b i t 5 35 Email 36 Email Exhibit 7 37 Email Exh i b i t 8 38 Article Email 21 Exhibit 10 22 Email 25 28 Email 20 24 26 Email 19 Exhibit 9 23 26 Email 13 Exhibit 6 14 18 Email 9 Exhibit 4 10 PAGE Exh i b i t 11 39 52 53 Email Exhibit 12 56 5 1 Email 2 Exhibit 13 3 Email 4 Exhibit 14 5 Email 6 Exhibit 15 7 Email 8 Exhibit 16 9 Email 10 Exhibit 1 7 11 12 13 Exhibit 18 Email 16 Exhibit 20 17 Email Exhibit 21 22 23 24 25 1 23 1 25 12 6 1 26 1 27 12 8 AIM Messages 20 Exhibit 22 21 1 03 Email 15 19 61 Email 1 4 Exhibit 19 18 58 1 31 Messages Exhibit 2 3 133 Email Exhibit 24 Email 1 33 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Exhib i t 25 Email Exhibit 26 Exhibit 27 Exhib i t 28 11 Exhibit 30 12 Email Exhib i t 3 1 16 Email 17 Exhibit 33 18 Email 21 22 23 24 25 1 49 152 1 63 AI M Messages 15 Exhibit 32 20 14 2 Email and At t achment Email 19 1 40 Email 10 14 1 36 Messages 9 Exhibit 29 13 1 34 1 99 225 7 P R O C E E D I N G S 1 MR . DAVIS : 2 3 This is t he tran sc ribed interview o f Ro bert Goldstone . 4 5 Good morning . On October 18 , 2017 , Chairman Grassley sen t Mr . Goldstone a letter, stat i ng t hat the 6 Judiciary Commi tte e was seeking information 7 related to a meet i ng held o n June 9th , 201 6 , at 8 Trump Towe r, as well as r e lat ed mat t ers . The 9 letter reque s t ed an interview and cer t a i n 1 0 categories o f documents . 11 I n response , Mr . Go ldstone has , t hro ugh 12 his counsel , agreed to t his volun t ary interview 13 and pro vided r o ughly 2 00 pages o f documents . 14 15 Would t he witness please s t a t e your name for the record? 16 MR . GOLDSTONE : 17 MR . DAVI S : Robert Ian Goldstone . On behal f o f t he chairman , I 1 8 wan t t o thank Mr . Golds t one f or appearing here 1 9 today . My name is Patr i ck Davis , and I am the 20 deputy chief investigati ve counsel with the 21 commi tte e ' s ma jority staff . 22 I will ask everyone else from the 23 commi tt ee who is here to i n t rod u ce t hemselves as 24 well. 25 j ust a f ew mo ments . We will ge t t o Mr . Golds t one ' s counsel in 8 MR . FOSTER : 1 2 Jason Foster , ch i e f inves ti ga ti ve counsel for Chairman Grassl ey . MR . HOLMES: 3 Lee Ho lme s , ch i ef counse l t o 4 Lindsey Graham . MS . DUCK : 5 Jenn ifer Duck , s t a ff director f or 6 Senator Feins t ein . MS . SAWYER : 7 Heather Sawyer, genera l 8 counsel , Sena t or Feinst e in. MS . QU INT: 9 La r a Qu i nt with Senator 1 0 Whitehouse . MS . CLAFLIN: 11 Molly Cla fli n , counsel f or 1 2 Senator Feins t ein . MR . PRIVOR: 13 Bri an Pr i vor , senior counsel to 1 4 Senator Feins t ein . 15 MR . DAVIS: The Federal Rule s o f Civi l 16 Procedure do not apply to any of the committee ' s 17 investiga ti ve ac tivities, including tr anscr i bed 1 8 interv iews . There are some guidelines we f ollow, 1 9 and I wi l l go over those now . 20 Our ques ti oning will proceed in rounds. 21 The ma jority staff wi ll ask quest i ons first for l 22 hour . Then the minority staff will have the 23 oppor tu ni t y to ask ques ti ons f or an equal amo u n t 24 of ti me . We will go back and f or t h until th e re 25 are no mo re quest i o ns, and the i ntervi ew i s o ver . 9 1 We typ i cal l y take a short break at the 2 end of each hour , but should you need to t ake a 3 break at any other time, please jus t 4 5 l et u s know . We can discuss taking a break for lunch whenever you a re ready to do th a t. 6 We have an official reporter taking down 7 everyth i ng we say to make a written record , so we 8 ask th a t you give verbal responses t o a ll 9 quest i o n s . 10 Do you understand? 11 MR . GOLDSTONE: 12 MR . DAVIS: 13 I do. So t hat the court reporter can take down a c l ear record , we wi l l do our best to 1 4 limit the number of people directing ques ti ons t o 15 you during any given hour to tho s e whose turn it 16 is. It is also impor tant that we d o no t talk over 1 7 one another or inter r up t each o t her , if we can 18 help it. That goes f or everybody present a t 1 9 today ' s interview . 20 While Sena t ors on t he commit t ee may 21 obs erve, the chairman and ranking member have 22 agreed that only staff will ask questions . 23 encour ag e wit nesses who a ppe a r be f ore the 24 c ommittee to consult freely with counsel, if t hey 25 so choose . We 10 Yo u are appear ing h ere today wi th 1 2 counsel . 3 record. Counsel , pl ease s t a t e yo ur n ame for the 4 MR . GAGE: Ro bert Gage. 5 MR . OZAROWSKI: 6 MR . DAVIS: Bernard Ozarowski . We want you to answer our 7 quest i o ns in the most complete and truth f ul mann er 8 poss ibl e , so we will t ake our time . If yo u have 9 any quest i o n s o r if you do no t under s t and any o f 1 0 o ur questions , please let us know . 11 12 If you hones tl y don 't know the answer t o a question or don't rememb e r, it's b es t no t to 1 3 guess . Just give us your best reco l lection . It ' s 1 4 ok a y to t e ll us if you learned some i nforma ti on 15 fr om s o meone else, if you indic a te how yo u came to 16 know that informa ti on . 17 If there are things that you don't know or can 't remember , we as k t hat you 1 8 inform us to t he b es t of your knowledge who might 1 9 be ab l e to provide a more complete answer to the 2 0 question . 21 It is thi s committee' s prac tice t o honor 22 valid c ommon-law privilege claims as an 23 a ccommod a ti on to a witness or par t y wh en t hose 24 claims are made in good f ai t h and accompanied by 25 su ff icient explanat i o n, so that the committee can 11 1 eva l uate the claim . 2 honor the pr i v il ege , t he commit t ee ways it s need 3 for the information aga i nst any legitimate basis 4 for withholding it. When deciding whether to The committee typically does 5 not honor con t rac tu al con fi dent i a lity agre ements. 6 You should understand t hat , a lt hough the 7 interview is not under oath , by law , you are 8 required t o answe r ques ti ons from Congress 9 truthfully. Do you understand that? 10 11 MR . GOLDSTONE: 12 MR . DAVIS: I do. Specifical l y , 1 8 U. S . C . Sec ti on 1 3 1001 makes i t a crime to make any materially 14 false, 15 representati on i n the course of a congressional 16 investigati on . 17 s t a tements i n this i n terv iew. 18 fictitious, or fr a udul en t statemen t or That statute applies to your Do you understand t hat? 19 MR . GOLDSTONE : 20 MR . DAVI S : I do. Witnesses who knowi ngly provi de 21 false s t a t ements could be s ubject to cr imi nal 22 prosecuti on and imprisonment for up to 5 years . 23 Do you understand t h i s? 24 MR . GOLDSTONE : 25 MR . DAVI S : I do. Is there any reason you are 12 1 unable t o pro vide truthful answers t o today ' s 2 questions? 3 MR. GOLDSTONE : 4 MR . DAVIS: 5 No. Finally, we ask that you not speak abo ut wha t we discuss in this interview with 6 anyone else outside of who is here in the room 7 today in order t o preserve the int egrity of o ur 8 inves tig a tion. We also ask th a t you not remove 9 any exhibits or o ther committee documents fr om the 1 0 interview. 11 12 Is there anything else th a t my colleagues from the minority wan t to add? MS . SAWYER : 13 14 No , thank yo u, Patrick . We just appreciate th a t you are here 15 tod ay . 16 MR . DAVIS: The time is now 9 : 44 . We will 17 get started with the first hour of questions. 18 EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR THE MAJORIT Y 1 9 BY MR . DAVIS : 20 21 Q. Could you please state your full name again for the record? 22 A. Robert Ian -- that ' s I - a - n -- Goldstone . 23 Q. Where did you reside in June of 2016? 24 A. In Hoboken, New J e rsey. 25 Q. Where d o you currently reside? 13 1 A. I -- well, my official address is still 2 in Hoboken, New J e rsey, but I am residing in 3 Bangkok in Th a iland. 4 Q. Where are you from originally? 5 A. Manchester , England . 6 Q. Are you a citizen of the United Kingdom? 7 A. I am . 8 Q. Are you a dual citizen of any other 9 country? 10 A. The United States . 11 Q. When did you become an American citizen? 12 A. Approximately 2005 . 13 Q. What is your educational background? 14 A. I -- my -- I have junior and high school 15 education in England , and I left school to pursue 16 a career in j ourna lism at the age of 16. 17 Q. Could you describe your professional 1 8 background? 19 A. I, as I mentioned , left school to pursue 20 a career in journalism. 21 journa li s t 22 went to college to study journalism. f o r some years , during which time, I 23 diploma in practica l 24 25 I was a traine e I received a journa lism fr om Richmond College in Sheffield in England . I was a j our nalist o n weekly and daily 14 1 newspapers in the United Kingdo m f o r s o me years . 2 And then I transf e rred to Sydney, Australia , whe r e 3 I worked f o r the Austra li an v ersion o f the 4 Associated Press for approximately 3 years . 5 Aft er that, I swit ched professions to 6 become a publicist , 7 first in Australia , and th en , through o n e o f my clients , I was rel o cated t o New 8 York and to li ve in the United States in 1 991. 9 And I have resided there e v er s i nce . 10 And from 1997 until now , have owned and 11 operated my own sma ll, independent, boutique 12 public relations, music management , and marketing 13 and eve nts c o mpany . 14 Entertainment . 15 French , 0 -U-I. 16 It is called Oui 2 The spelling of the " oui " is th e Q. I would like to get some more information 17 abo ut your wo rk wit h Emin Agalarov . 18 first meet him? 19 20 21 A. I met him in When did you at the very end of 201 1, the b eg inning of 2012 . Q. What is the nature o f yo ur rel a ti o nship 2 2 with him? 23 24 A. Initi a lly, I wa s his music publicist in the United States . Th en after approximately 12 to 25 15 mo nths, I was invit ed t o be his int ernat i o nal 15 1 music manager . 2 3 4 5 Q. So how l ong have you worked for him in tot a l? A. I worked f or him , I do not currently work f or h i m, I wo rked f or h i m f or a pproxi ma t ely 4 and 6 a half years. 7 8 9 Q. And what did your professional r esponsibilities in th a t capaci t y entail? A. My initi a l re spons i b iliti es were purely 1 0 as his public relations representative , pitching 11 h i m f or s t ories to med i a , comi ng up wit h press 1 2 plans , t aking him to t hose media int e rvi ews , 1 3 working o n a strategy to he l p break h i s mus i cal 1 4 and enter t a inment career ou t side of his native 15 16 17 18 Ru ss i a . Q. Did any o f your other employees or assoc i a t es ass ist in your work f or Emi n? A. They didn't assist directly, but my 1 9 co f ounder , David Wi l son , definite l y too k him t o 20 some interv iews , se t up a couple music interv iews 21 for h im. He i s the d irector of pub li city . And 22 on ce I became Emin ' s internati ona l music manager , 23 Dav id cer t a i nly helped f ac ilit a t e and t ake him t o 24 some o f these interv iews . 25 the point o f contact 24/7 f or Emin . But primarily, I was 16 Q. What is your understanding o f Emin's t i es 1 2 to t he Russi an Government, if an y? 3 A. I have no ide a . 4 Q. When did you first meet Aras Agalarov? 5 A. I believe it was in 2012. I was in 6 London wi t h Emin, and we were due to fly to New 7 York , and we were du e to take a commerc i a l 8 9 flight. And at the last moment , he said t o me , oh, I need your passport . I need t o s end s ome detail s 10 because my father is flying from Moscow , and I 11 a sked h i m to pick us up in London , and he will fl y 12 us. 13 And i t was o n that occas i o n that I met 1 4 Aras on the plane . 15 Q. What is the nature o f yo ur relati o n sh ip 16 with him? 17 18 A. I had a very cordial relat i onship with him , based on the f ac t t hat I was his son ' s music 1 9 manager and responsib l e f or h i s e ntertainme nt 20 career ou t side of Russia. 21 Q. Have you ever worked for Aras Agalarov? 22 A. No . 23 Q. Have you ever been paid by h i m? 24 A. No. To my knowledge , no . I mean , I 25 received a f ee every month through Emin. I don't 17 1 know what the chain o f command and how that was 2 paid . 3 But no would be the simple answer . Q. What is your understanding o f Aras ' ties 4 to the Russian Government , if any? 5 A. I don 't know . 6 Q. Have you ever worked for the Crocus 7 Gro up? 8 A. Not directly . 9 Q. Could you describe your i ndirect work 10 with them? 11 12 A. Many of the events and things that I set up or attended for Emin were hosted by Crocus , 13 took place at Cro cus . 14 15 I was also , as I am sure you a re awa re, invo lved with the Mi s s Universe contest in 20 1 3 , 16 which was not only hosted by Crocus Group but took 1 7 place wit hin the Crocus confines . 18 Q. So have you ever received payments from 19 the Cro cus Group? 20 21 22 23 A. Again , because I do not know the chain of command in terms of my fee, I wil l say no . Q. Have you ever worked f or or on behalf o f the Russian Government? 24 A. No. 25 Q. Did yo u help arrange the June 9th , 2016 , 18 1 me eti ng at Trump Tower as part of your role 2 working for Emin Agalarov or for some other 3 ent it y? 4 those tasks? A. I n the capac it y as Emin ' s U.S.-based 5 6 I n what capacity were you performing music manager . 7 Q. Offhand , the meeting does not appear to 8 have had any relevance t o enter t a inment work for 9 Emin . Did you typically prov i de the s e types of 1 0 services , ones unrelated to the entertainment 11 12 industry, f or h i m? A. Emin had become my sole client, based on 13 the need and the i rregularity o f the hours and the 1 4 locations, so I decided to divest my other clients 15 16 17 to work wit h him . As a result , I was often asked to do things wh i ch don 't necessar il y f a ll under a very 1 8 s tri c t entertainment guideline , and this was just 19 another o f those requests , to me . 20 Q. I'll ask you to t ake a look at the 2 1 document Bates stamped RG 00006 1. 22 MR . DAVIS : This will be Exhibit 1 . 23 [Goldstone Exhibi t 1 was ma rked f or 24 identification.] 25 BY MR . DAVIS : 19 1 Q. This is an ema il excha nge between you and 2 Donald Trump Jr. that was provided by your 3 counsel . The first ema il chronolog i cal l y is from 4 you to Trump Jr . at 10 : 36 a . m. on June 3rd, 2016 . 5 I n it, you write, " Emin just called and 6 asked me to contact you with something very 7 interesting ." 8 To the b es t of your recoll ec tion, did 9 Emin ca ll you on the morn i ng of June 3rd , 2016, 1 0 pri or to your email to Trump Jr .? 11 A . He did. 12 Q. Was that call the first you heard about 13 possibly setting up a me eti ng between Natalia 1 4 Veselnitskaya and Donald Trump Jr.? 15 A. It was . 16 Q. Can you please describe that call in as 1 7 much deta il as you reme mber? 18 A. I received -- I received the call fr om 19 Emin that morning , and he asked me if I could 20 contact the Trumps with something int e r es ting and 21 sa id th a t a wel l- connected Russ i an a tt o rney h ad 22 met with his father that morning in his father's 23 of fi ce and had told h i m th a t they had some 24 interesting information that could potentially be 25 dama g ing regarding f u nding by Russians to the 20 1 Democrats and to its candidate, Hillary Clinton . 2 3 Q. Do es the content of your email match the content o f th a t cal l, in your op inion? 4 A. If I can expand on the call, I said at 5 the time th a t I didn't quite underst and wha t he 6 was asking and asked for more information. 7 I asked if he could tell me a bit more about the 8 a ttorney, as I felt I might b e asked that. And he 9 sa id th a t the attorney was we ll- connected . I 1 0 asked again , connected , what does that mean? 11 he said , we ll-connected. 12 I made a flip r ema rk. 13 like as into the p o wer grid? 14 15 16 17 And what? I said , connected Like connected t o And he said , connected . I then mov ed on t o ask about the content . I said I believed I would be asked more about it if I sent the e ma il. 1 8 could he expand? Could they expand? And And Emin simply said that all he 19 knew was that there was some p o tentially damaging 20 informa tion r e : Hillary, wh ich could be of 21 interes t t o the Trumps. 22 " the Trumps." 23 24 The words he used were , Q. Did you underst and Emin ' s use of the word "connected " in r e f e r en ce to Ms. Veselni tskaya to 25 refer to ties that she might have with Russ ian 21 1 intel l ig e nce or th e Russian Go vernment? 2 A. I d i dn 't a t t hat time. 3 Q. Ho w did yo u i n t erpre t 4 A. I interpreted it as she -- I ' m no t sure I his st a tement? 5 even knew it wa s a she , j u s t t o be clea r, a t t hat 6 point . 7 that the att o rney was wel l- c o nnect e d . 8 He kept referring to an a tt orney . Bu t It took me a few minutes a fter I had hung 9 up t o dec i de t hat wel l- c o nnec t ed p o t ent i a ll y c o uld 10 only be c o nnected , if you are talking about 11 pol iti cs , perh a ps to t he government . 12 Q. At the time o f Emin's cal l, did you 1 3 bel i e v e setting up th i s me e ting was a good idea? 14 A. I s a id, in the call at the end , t hat I 1 5 bel i eved it wa s a bad idea and t hat we shou l dn 't 16 do it. 17 And I gave the reason for that being that I a m a music publicist. 1 8 about . Poli ti cs , I knew nothing And I said , nei t her do you and neither 1 9 do e s yo ur f ath e r . And the answer was simply, I ' m 20 only ask i ng you to ge t a meeting . 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Did Emi n de s cr i be any reluctance to se t up the meeting during that call? A. Not reluctance. Hes it ance , perhaps, b u t not reluctance. Q. And what is the dist i nct i o n b e twe e n the 22 1 two , in your mind? 2 A. It was t he f ac t t ha t t he r e was no 3 e l abo r a tion o n any of t he content o r of who t h is 4 was . It was kind of , please , just set up the 5 meeting . 6 7 Q. Returning to th e ema il, i n it, you wrot e , " This is obviously very high -l eve l and se n s itive 8 info rma ti on but i s part of Russia and it s 9 governme n t's support f o r Mr . Trump he l ped a l o ng by 1 0 Aras and Emin ." 11 12 13 14 What was t he basis f or your asse rtio n th a t the Russian Go ve r nmen t suppo rt e d Mr. Trump? A. What I meant in that was that I had been , a t t ha t ti me , p rob ab ly 12 or 1 3 ti mes t o Russia , 15 includ ing I had been i n Ru ss i a with Mr. Trump 1 6 during the Mi ss Un iverse Organizati on pageant . 17 I had seen and heard first hand pe op le of a ll leve ls, 1 8 whe ther it was business people , whe ther it was 19 friend s o f Emi n , f r i e nd s o f his f ather , talk in 20 ve ry glowing t e r ms about Mr. Trump . 21 I had a ls o s een on telev i s i o n i n Ru ss i a 22 many , many reports i n wh i ch government o ffi c ial s , 23 i nc ludi ng t he President , Mr . Putin , had p r a ised 24 Mr. Trump, who , in tur n , I had seen on CNN had 25 praised Mr . Put in. 23 So what I was trying to say there was , 1 2 look, here , Emin may have this information. This 3 is yet ano ther ex a mple of Ru ss i an s uppo rt for you 4 and your father . And t hat ' s why I put , 5 6 Aras and Emin." 7 8 " Helped along by They don't wo rk for or they' re not members o f the Russ i an Government . Q. So a t t he ti me you sen t t his email , did 9 you have any rea son to be liev e that the Ru ss ian 10 Government was making efforts to interfere in the 11 U.S. 20 1 6 president i a l elec ti on? 12 A. No. 13 Q. Pr i or to this emai l, had you ever had 1 4 communica ti ons wi t h Mr . Trump Jr . about Russian 1 5 Government support f o r his father? 16 A. I believe not . 17 Q. Had you ever had such commun i cat i on with 1 8 anyone fr om the Trump Organization or campaign 1 9 prior to th i s? 20 A. I believe no t. 21 Q. Yo ur ema il a l so states , " What do you 22 think is the best way to handle this information? 23 And wo uld you be ab le t o speak to Emi n abo ut it 24 directly? I can also send t his info t o your 25 f ather via Rhona, but it i s u l trasens i t i ve , so 24 1 want e d t o send t o yo u first." 2 3 Were yo u r e f e r e ncing Rhon a Gr a ff, an executive v i ce pres i dent a t the Trump Org a n i z a ti o n 4 and assistant t o Do nald Trump Sr . ? 5 A. I wa s . 6 Q. When you expressed this reluctance to 7 send this ultras e nsitive info rmati o n t o Trump Sr . 8 vi a Ms . Gr a ff, wa s that a r e luct a nc e to sh a re the 9 information wit h Trump Sr . hims elf or a reluctance 10 t o use Ms . Graff as an intermediary t o share it? 11 12 Can you expl a i n wh a t you mean t ? A. I can , indeed. 13 with this information . I didn 't know what to do As I've said b e f o r e , yo u 1 4 know , I'm a music publicist . 15 Th a t' s my world . And s o when Emi n s aid , contact the 16 Trumps , I wasn ' t sure if the right way to d o it 1 7 would ' ve been through Rhon a Gr a ff or t hrough Don 1 8 Jr., and I made the call t hat he was t he lesser 19 level , and that I would run this past him first, 20 rather t han send it down a more offici a l routing. 21 Ho wever , because o f my concern that I had 2 2 pushed Emin on , that I didn ' t know what I was 23 re a lly even talking a bout , beca use I h a d asked i t 24 to be elabora t ed on , I was very specific in 25 sayi ng , what d o you think th e best way -- would 25 1 you be ab l e to speak t o Emi n about it directly? 2 My r eason for putting that there was 3 partly se lfi sh , that they wou l d then speak abo ut 4 it, and I would be no l onger a part of it. 5 And a lso, it was to le ave a little bit of an open 6 question , I think you should probably speak to 7 Emin about this . 8 Q. What was your underst and ing of the nature 9 o f the d o cuments and i nformat i on be i ng offered? 1 0 Did you have any understanding o f where they had 11 originated or who created them? 12 A. I did not. 13 Q. And what abo ut their nature, in general? 14 Did you underst and what th ey were? 15 A. I did not . 16 Q. Accord ing to the email exchange , Mr . 17 Trump Jr . replied to you at 1 0 :5 3 on June 3rd , 18 2016 , stating , "T hanks , Rob. I appreciate that. 19 I am on the road at the moment, but perhaps I will 20 just speak to Emin first. 21 time. 22 especially later in the summer . 23 call first thing next week when I am back? " 24 25 It seems we have some And if it i s what yo u say, I lov e it, Could we do a Do you know where Mr . Trump was at that time? 26 1 A. I don ' t know where he was . 2 Q. I'd like you to t ake a look at a series 3 o f ema il s , and then I will ask s ome quest i ons . 4 5 MR . DAVIS : This is a batch Bates stamped RG000062 t hrough 64 . These will collec ti vely be 6 Exhibit 2 . 7 [Goldstone Exhibit 2 was marked for 8 id en tifi ca ti on .] 9 BY MR . DAVI S : 10 Q. These are a series o f emails between 11 you and Emin . 12 you emailed him a t 13 2 016 , sayi ng , On the Bates page 62 , it a ppe a rs 6 : 09 p . m. on Friday, June 3rd , " From Don Jr ., he wants to speak 1 4 personally on the issue with you ea rly next week ." 15 To which Emin replied, " Great ." 16 Page 63 appears to be an email from Emin 17 to you on Monday , June 6th , 2 01 6 , ask i ng if there 1 8 was any news abou t a call with Trump Jr. And page 1 9 64 appears t o be yo u te l l i ng Emi n that there was 20 no upd a t e yet . 21 MR . DAVIS: Now p l ease take a look a t 22 another batch of emails . 23 RG000065 t hrough 67 . 24 [Goldstone Exhibit 3 was marked f or 25 identification.] These are Bates stamped These will be Exh i b it 3 . 27 1 2 BY MR . DAVIS : Q. These appear t o be emails be t ween you and 3 Mr . Trump Jr . o n June 6th , 20 1 6 , 4 him at 1 2 : 40 p . m. when he will be free to talk 5 wi th Emi n by phone . He responds at 3 : 03 p . m., 6 asking if they can speak t hen . 7 i n which you ask You respond tha t you will track d own Emin in Moscow . And then you 8 get Mr . Trump Jr . ' s number . 9 And then at 3 : 43 p . m., you ema i l Trump 10 Jr . to say that Emin is on stage but should be o ff 11 in 2 0 mi nutes . 12 Between your initial email to Trump Jr . 13 o n Friday, June 3rd , and the time you arranged a 1 4 call for Emin and Mr . Trump Jr . a round 4 p . m. on 1 5 Monday , as reflected i n these ema i ls on Monday , 16 June 6th , did you communicate with Emin using 1 7 means other th an email to d i scuss the a ttempt to 18 19 arrange the meeting or call with Trump Jr . ? A. I d o n ' t b e lieve s o . We often spoke q u ite 20 a lot by phon e , but I don ' t b e lieve we spoke about 21 this , no . 22 Q. How did you track down Emin in Moscow? 23 A. I c a lled h i s band manag er , who is a man 24 25 by the name of Pavel Klychko , K- L- Y- C- H- K- 0 . Q. To the best of your knowledge , did Emin 28 1 and Trump Jr . actua l ly speak by phone o n Monday , 2 June 6th , 2016? 3 A. I don 't know . 4 MR . DAVIS: 5 Next , please take a l ook at the ema il exchange Ba t es stamped RG000068 . This will 6 be Exhibit 4 . 7 [Goldstone Exhibit 4 was marked f or 8 id en tifi ca ti on .] 9 BY MR . DAVI S : 10 11 Q. The first email in this chain chronolog i cally is f rom you to Trump Jr . at 4 : 20 1 2 p . m. on June 7 th, 20 1 6 , the day after you were 13 tryi ng to arrange the cal l between Emi n and Trump 1 4 Jr . And you wrote , in part , 15 " Emin asked t hat 16 I schedule a meeting with you and the Russian 17 Governmen t at t orney who is fl ying over f rom Moscow 18 f or this Thursday . I believe you are aware of t he 1 9 meeting ." 20 When did Emin ask you t o schedule t hat 2 1 meeting? 22 A. I believe -- well , usually , I would email 23 any req u ests f or Emi n f or anyt h i ng within 1 0 t o 15 24 minutes of hanging up a call . 25 was very short on pat i e nce. That ' s because Emin So I would imagine it 29 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 wou ld've been at l east with i n an h o ur o f that . Q. Okay . So was t hat conversation by phone , to the best o f y o ur recollecti o n? A. To the best o f my recollection , it would have been . Q. Can you describe that conversation in as much deta i l as y o u remember? A. I really don 't r eca ll it a t all . Th e o nly t h i ng t hat I note here mys elf i s that I pu t, 10 " I believe you are aware o f the meeting ." 11 obv i o u sly, Don knew there was a mee ti ng req u est , 12 because I had made it. 13 that y o u are aware o f what the meet i ng i s abo ut . 14 Q. Trump Jr. responds, proposing a meeting 15 a t 3 p . m. a t Now , The " aware " here implies his offices . 16 Taking a l ook at Bates number -- 17 ac tu a lly, I don't think we have th a t one . We will 1 8 get back t o that lat e r. 19 Did y o u ever send over the names o f who 20 was going to at t end the mee ti ng to t he Trump 21 Organ i zat i o n? 22 A. I ' m not sure . 23 Q. Had yo u visi t ed Trump Towe r prior t o th a t 24 25 mee ti ng? A. Yes . 30 1 2 Q. On your previ ous v i s i ts , did you typically have t o submit names beforehand? 3 A . To Rhona . 4 Q. Between the time you sent your initial 5 1 0 : 36 a . m. email t o Trump Jr . on June 3rd , 20 1 6 , 6 the one s t arting all t his of f, and t he June 9t h 7 meeting itself , did you communicate wi th anyo n e 8 else in the Trump Organization or the Trump 9 campa i gn besides Trump Jr. ? 10 A. I believe not . I am hesitating because 11 there may have been an i n t eract i on abou t VK and 12 something , and I' m no t sure the date o f it, 1 3 because I don ' t have i t in front o f me . But about 1 4 this meeting , no . 15 Q. Be t ween t he ti me you s ent yo ur 10: 36 a .m. 16 email on June 3rd , 2016 , and the June 9th meeting 17 itself, did you communica t e wit h Trump Jr . u s i ng 1 8 means o t her than email, such as phone calls , 1 9 texts , or messaging apps? 20 A. I bel i eve no t. 21 Q. Do the ema il s yo u prov i ded account for 22 all of your communications with Trump Jr ., the 23 Trump Organ i zat i on , and the Trump campa i gn during 24 that period , June 3rd to June 9t h , 20 1 6? 25 A. To the best o f my knowl edge , yes . 31 1 Q. Do you know Roma n Beniami nov? 2 A. I do . 3 Q. How l ong have you known him? 4 A. I ' ve known him ever since I ' ve worked for 5 Emin , so currently, over 5 years . 6 Q. What do you understand his business to 7 be? 8 A. I underst and -- I've a lways known him to 9 be Emi n ' s ass i s tant, fir s t i n Moscow and then in - 1 0 - well , in the U. S ., in New Jersey , he is based, 11 but in the U.S. 12 Q. What role, if any , did he play in 13 arranging the June 9th meeting? 14 A. He played no rol e in a rranging it. 15 Q. Did you describe the proposed meet i ng t o 16 him before it happened? 17 A. Probably . 18 Q. How did you describe its purpose to him 19 and who would be attending? 20 A. I don 't rec a ll. 21 Q. I' d li ke to turn now to your prior 22 interacti ons with the people you brought to the 23 meeting . 24 25 Prior to ar r ang i ng the June 9th meeting , did you know Natalia Veselnitskaya? A. I did not . 32 Q. When did you fi rst have commun i cat i o n 1 2 with her? 3 A. I be liev e t here was a commun i cat i on t hat 4 I was either copied on or that was sent to me that 5 had an email a ddress, th a t I have subsequen tl y 6 learned was her email address , merely confirming 7 the time o f it . So wi thin a f ew days prior to the 8 mee ti ng . Q. To the bes t of your knowl edge , is Ms . 9 1 0 Vese lnitskaya an attorney f or the Russian 11 Governmen t ? 12 A. I have no idea. 13 Q. Do you kno w if she ever has been? 14 A. I have no id ea . 15 Q. When you first interac t ed wi t h Ms . 16 Vese lnitskaya, what did you understand her 1 7 b u s i ness t o be? 18 A. I' ve never interact ed wi t h her . 19 Q. Even at the meet i ng i tse lf ? 20 A. Well , I don 't know how you define 21 interac ti on . 22 hello . 23 24 Q. Okay. I was intr od uced t o her , and I sa i d Wha t i s your u nders t anding o f Ms . Veselni t skaya ' s relationship wi t h Emin and Aras 25 Aga l aro v? 33 1 A. I d o n't know . 2 Q. Of her r e lationship with Prevezon 3 Holdings? 4 A. I have no idea. 5 Q. Wi t h Den i s a nd Pyo t r Katsyv? 6 A. No id ea . 7 Q. And with Yur i Chaika? 8 A. No idea. 9 Q. Okay . Has Ms . Veselnit s kaya ever pa i d 1 0 you f or any services? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Prior t o arranging th e June 9th meeting , 13 did you kno w Anatol i Samo chorno v? 14 A. No. 15 Q. When d i d you first meet him? 16 A. Well , 17 18 th a t first o f all , I have no idea who is. Q. Okay . To t he best of your recoll ec tion, 1 9 did Ms . Vesel nitskaya bring a trans l at o r with her? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Had y o u met her tr ans l a tor prior to the 22 meeting? 23 A. 24 Q. Prior t o arranging th e June 9th meeting , No. 25 did you kno w Rinat Akhmetsh i n? 34 1 A. No . 2 Q. So when did you firs t meet him? 3 A. I met al l of the group when I was 4 introduced to them in the lobby of Trump Tower by 5 6 I r a kly Kaveladze , I ke Kaveladze . Q. At the time you me t Mr . Akhmetshin , what 7 did you understand his business to b e? 8 A. I didn ' t . 9 Q. Did yo u have any reas o n t o bel i eve that 10 Mr . Akhmetshin has ties to the Russian Government? 11 A. No . 12 Q. Prior t o the June 9th meeting , did you 13 know I ke Kave l adze? 14 A. Yes . 15 Q. How l o ng have yo u known him? 16 A. Again , since about the same time as I 17 18 s t a rted wo rking f or Emin . Q. And what do you unders t and Mr . 1 9 Kaveladze ' s bus i ness to be? 20 A. I don 't know . 21 Q. Do you know i f he works f o r Emi n o r Ara s 22 Agalarov? 23 24 A. Only in as much as I have wo rked wi th him on a projec t for t hem , which was t he Miss Universe 25 pageant , so yes . 35 1 2 Q. Do you kno w if he has b een empl o yed by the Crocus Group? 3 A. I d o n't know the terms o f who employs 4 him . 5 Q. Do you have any reason to believe Mr. 6 Kaveladze has ties to the Russian Governmen t? 7 A. I d o n't know . 8 Q. Prior to the mee ting on June 9t h , 201 6 , 9 who did you tell a bout the meeting? A. I mean , I would 've probably told friends. 10 11 I certainly believe I wo uld' ve talked it over 12 with Roman Be niaminov . 13 14 time t o gether . He and I s pent a lot o f We did a l o t o f pro j ects f o r Emin. That would b e t he e xtent of it. 15 Q. Were you keeping the meeting s ecret? 16 A. Well , I checked in f or it on Facebook , so 17 not re a lly. 18 Q. Okay . 19 MR. DAVIS : I wo uld l ike yo u to take a 20 look at a n ema il Ba t es stamped RG 000070 . 2 1 will be Exhibit 5. 22 [Go ldst one Exhibit 5 was marked f or 23 id en tific a ti on .] 24 25 BY MR . DAVI S : Q. This is an ema il f r o m yo u t o Emin This 36 1 Agalaro v and two other email addresses . Can yo u 2 confirm the identities of the people behind those 3 two ema i l addresses? 4 5 A. The Kaveladze . is definitely Irakly " Ike " The o t her one I had no i dea , bu t I 6 have subsequently learned is ac t ually Ms. 7 Veselni tskaya . 8 MR . DAVIS : And I would like you t o take a 9 loo k at ano ther ema i l cha i n . This d o esn ' t have 10 any Bates stamps . We will label it Exhibit 6 . 11 6 was ma rked f or [Goldstone Exhibi t 12 13 14 iden t ifica t ion .] BY MR . DAVIS : Q. This is an email exchange be t ween you and 1 5 Ms . Veselnitskaya . On June 9th , 20 1 6 , at 9 : 24 16 a . m., she emails you asking to bring Rinat 1 7 Akhme t shin t o the mee t ing and also ment i oning Mr . 1 8 Samochornov . 19 Yo u repl i ed at 9 : 55 , writing , " I would 20 suggest you bring whoever you need in order to 2 1 make the meet i ng successful . Pl ease br i ng them 2 2 with you and Ike for your meeting at 4 p . m. 23 24 today ." Did you inform Trump Jr . or anyone else 25 at the Trump Organization be f ore the meet i ng that 37 1 these add iti o nal peop l e would be attend i ng? 2 A. I believe I did not. 3 Q. Okay . 4 MR . DAVIS : 5 Now let ' s take a l ook at the ema il exch a nge Ba tes stamped RG000077 . 6 be Exhibit 7 . This wil l This is ac tu a ll y 77 and 78 . 7 [Go ldstone Exhibit 7 was marked f or 8 identification . ] 9 BY MR . DAVI S : Q. This is an email exchange between you and 10 11 Mr . Kave l a d ze . It appears t hat you a gree to meet 12 a t 3 : 30 p . m. before your 4 p . m. mee ti ng on June 13 9th , 201 6 . 14 I s that correc t? 15 A. As per the ema il, yes . 16 Q. On June 9th , 2 016 , did you meet with any 1 7 o f t he meet ing at te nd ees prior t o the mee ti ng 1 8 itself? 19 A. No , exc e pt in the l o bby t o me e t . 20 Q. Can you walk us t hrough your iti nerary o n 21 June 9th , 2016 , prior to the meet i ng wi th Trump 22 Jr . ? 23 A. I h a d a meet ing set up a t Sony Mus i c wit h 2 4 Danny Strick, who is t he presiden t o f Sony Music 25 publishing . Emi n is publ i sh e d by Sony . And as it 38 1 was o ne bl o ck away from Trump Tower, I decided I 2 would do t hat first. Then I met wit h , 3 for coffee wi th -- we 4 represent the New York Friars Club, so I met with 5 my contact t here , who handles communications, f or 6 coffee in the plaza, Sony Plaza, which is a t 55th 7 and Mad i son . 8 And t hat took me through about to 3 p.m., 9 a t wh ic h po i n t I went to, yes , another place t o 10 have coffee , which was Starbucks on the mezzanine 11 o f Trump Tower. And t hat is where I wa ited f or 12 these f olks to arrive . 13 MR . DAVI S : 14 Next , I would like yo u t o loo k a t a Newsweek article titled, "Trump Jr. 15 Acqua i n t ance Ro b Go ldst one Used Faceboo k t o Pl ace 16 Himself at Scene of Trump Tower Meeting With 17 Russian La wyer ." This will be Exhibit 8. 18 [Goldstone Exhibit 8 was marked f or 19 identification.] 2 0 BY MR . DAVIS : 21 Q. The ar ticle states that, a t 3:57 p.m. on 22 June 9th , 2 016 , you checked into Trump Tower on 23 Facebook, notifying your Fa cebook friends o f yo ur 24 location. 25 I s that accurate? 39 1 A. If that is what it says . 2 Q. I believe you said you do rec a ll checking 3 4 5 in. I s that right? A. Yes . I actually , if the meeting was at 4 , and I went to have co ff ee , I wo uld i mag ine I 6 was th e re a bit before. 7 I just may not have checked in until -- if it says 3 : 57 . 8 Q. Why did you check in on Facebook? 9 A. Because any time I wou l d check in a t 1 0 Trump Tower , it would annoy 99 . 9 percent o f my 11 12 fri ends . Q. Does checking i n on Facebook mean t hat 13 you did not view the meeting as something covert? 14 15 A. I didn 't v iew th e meeting as anything. I jus t had t o get these people thr o ugh security and 16 my j ob was done . 17 Q. Okay . 18 MR. DAVI S : Before we move on to t he meeting 19 itself , I would like you to look at another ema il 20 chain , wh ich we will label Exhibit 9 . This 2 1 document i s Bates s t amp ed DJTJR00893 . 22 [Goldstone Exhibit 9 was marked f or 23 id en t ifica t ion .] 24 25 BY MR . DAVIS : Q. This is an ema il chain between you and 40 1 Rho na Graf f, Do nald Trump ' s ass i stant , from July 2 2015 . 3 to Ms . Graff on July 22nd , 20 1 5 , and states , i n The firs t email chronologically is from you 4 part , " Emin has an email invite for Mr . Trump to 5 a t tend his f a t her ' s 60th birthday in Moscow on 6 November 8th. " 7 Ms . Graff responded back o n July 24th , 8 2015 , stating , in part , "I will certainly make Mr . 9 Trump aware o f th i s inv i tat i o n , and I know he wil l 10 be honored that Emin thought of him . However , 11 g i ven h i s president i a l c ampa ign , i t is highly 12 unlikely that he would have time on his calendar 13 to go to Moscow in November ." 14 You replied on that same day , stating , in 1 5 part , "I t o ta l ly understand re : Moscow , unless 16 maybe he would welcome meeting with President 17 18 Put i n , wh i ch Emi n wo uld set up ." Why did you believe Emin could arrange a 19 me eti ng between Trump Sr . and Put in? 20 21 A. I believe that when you ask me questions about the Mi ss Un i verse pageant and Mr . Trump ' s 22 visit , my answers would put this in context , so I 23 sh a ll an s wer i t wi thout you having that context , 24 if that ' s okay. 25 During that trip , there was a l ot of talk 41 1 abo ut whether Mr . Trump wou ld meet with Mr . Put i n , 2 whe t her Mr. Puti n would a tt end t he pageant. It 3 was a very big deal both f o r Russ i a and for the 4 Miss Universe Organization . It came down to t he wire , and on the day 5 6 of t he contest, we sti ll didn 't know whether t here 7 would be a meet i ng or whether there would be a 8 call . It transpired, i n t he end , that t here would 9 be ne it her , but that Mr . Putin's spokesman, Dmitry 10 Peskov , called through Aras to speak to Mr . Trump 11 a nd gave his apolog ie s t hat , due t o the tardiness 12 of t he King of Holland, he was unable to schedule 13 a me e ting f or Mr . Trump . However -- and th i s was 1 4 conveyed by Emi n , who was translating for the 15 16 17 roo m, in wh i ch I was presen t. However , on his next visit , should he ever be in t he s a me pl a ce a g a i n , Mr. Pu ti n wo ul d 1 8 do everything possible to accommoda t e a mee ti ng . 19 I n my mind , the n e xt time h e would be i n 20 Moscow , if he was to come , which it was blatantly 21 o bv i o u s he wasn 't, if he was t o come , wel l, this 2 2 was the next time . 23 So I was pretty sure that somebody wo ul d f ollow up on th a t -- my point o f 2 4 con t act is a l ways Emin -- would f o llow up and see 25 wh e ther that me et i ng c o uld finally happen . 42 1 2 Q. Other than this email chain and the circumstances leading up to the June 9th , 2016 , 3 meeting, were there any o ther instances in which 4 you sought to arrange meetings between Russian 5 Government officials and individuals associated 6 with the Trump Organization or Trump campaign? 7 A. No . 8 Q. I would like to turn now to the meeting 9 itself on June 9th , 2016. What wa s the pr o ces s o f 10 getting from the building entrance to the room 11 where the meeting was held? A. They -- Mr . -- I was told that through 12 13 by actually Roman Beniamino v that Mr . Kaveladz e 14 would be bringing the people with him , and that I 15 wou l d meet them there. 16 email exchange with Ike . 17 18 And o bv i o u s l y , I had s o me So I kept looking down to see them. They actually were running late, and I believe Ike 19 call e d me a couple time s t o say th e y we r e running 20 late, which gave me a cert a in leve l of anxiety , 21 because this was a meet i ng I had a s ked f o r 22 specifically . 23 I s aw them a t the door . Then there wa s 24 very , very brief, hello , hello , and I was wanting 25 to g e t them up . We went t o security . I b e lieve 43 1 security asked f o r me , and because my name was on , 2 they didn ' t even bother with other people . 3 were shown i nt o an elevator . We then went up to , 4 I believe , it is the Trump board room . 5 We We were asked to wa i t . Don Jr . came out , came to me first , 6 7 because I was the o nly person , in fact , he knew 8 out of that group . 9 n i ce t o see me . He shook my hand , said it was I i ntroduced h i m to I ke and l et 10 Ike do the introductions to the others , at which 11 point I said , I' m le a ving , as I had a l ways planned 12 to do . And Don looked at me and just said , well , 13 why don ' t you stay, because then yo u can take 1 4 these people out again at the end? 15 16 And I agreed . Q. During the meeting , did anyo ne state that the Russian Go vernment supported Donald Trump ' s 1 7 president i a l c a mpaign? 18 A. To the bes t of my knowledge , no. 19 Q. Did anyo n e stat e that the Russian 20 Government opposed Hillary Clinton ' s campaign? 21 A. To the best of my knowl edge , no . 22 Q. Did anyone at the meeting offer to 23 rele a se hacked emails to aid t he Trump c a mpaign? 24 A. No . 25 Q. Did anyo n e o ffer to manufacture and 44 1 distribute fak e news to aid the Trump campaign? 2 A. Not that I heard , no . 3 Q. Did an yo ne o ffer to hack s tate vo ter 4 registration systems to obtain voter data to aid 5 the Trump campa i gn? 6 A. No. 7 Q. Was there any discussion o f anything that 8 might r eas on a bly be considered collusion between 9 the Trump campa i gn and the Russ i an Government? 10 A. I didn ' t pay a l ot of attention , because 11 I was merely acting as an escort at this point. 12 had brought them in, and I was to take them out. 13 I was checking emails. I was half -l istening . I And 1 4 to th e best of my knowledge , no would b e th e 15 16 answer . Q. Who also attended the June 9th meeting in 1 7 New York City a t Trump Tower? 18 Please list everyone who was present for any portion of the 19 me eti ng itself , however brief , even if they did 20 not a tt end th e en tire meeting . 21 A. Myse lf; Ir ak l y "Ike" Kaveladze ; Ms . 22 Vese lnitskaya; her translator , whose name 23 a pparently I have somewhere ; her colleague , Mr . 24 Akhmetov , I think his name is; Donald Trump Jr.; 25 Pau l Mana f ort ; and Jared Kushner . 45 1 MR . HOLMES : 2 MR . GOLDSTONE : 3 MR . HOLMES : 4 MR . GOLDST ONE : 5 Akhmetshin? Is that his name? Yes . Thank you . BY MR . DAVI S : 6 Q. Were all of the attendees introduced? 7 A. Yes , I believe so . 8 Q. How was Ms . Vese lnitskaya introd uc ed to 9 the group? 10 11 12 A. I believe that Don asked her to introduce hersel f. Q. Did she say what type of business she was 13 in or who she worked f or? 14 A. She did not . 15 Q. Did she or any o ther attendee claim that 16 she was working f or or speaking on behalf of the 17 Russian Governmen t? 18 A. Not to my knowledge. 19 Q. Did it appear that anyone else in the 20 meeting from th e Trump campaign had ever 2 1 previously i nteracted wi th Ms . Vese l n i tskaya? 22 A. It appeared not . 23 Q. How were you introduced? 24 A. To the best of my knowledge , Don said , I 25 know Rob . He is Emi n ' s music mana ger . 46 1 So mething like that . 2 Q. Did you or any other attendee claim that 3 you were wo rking f o r or speak i ng on behalf of the 4 Russian Go vernment? 5 A. No. 6 Q. 7 Prior to the meeting , had you ever interacted with Mr . Kushner o r Mr. Manafo rt? 8 A. No. 9 Q. Ho w was Mr . Kave l adze i ntroduced? 10 A. I ' m not sure . 11 Q. Do you recall if he s a id wh a t type of 12 business he was in or who he worked for? 13 A. I d o n't r e call . 14 Q. Did he or any other attendee claim that 15 he was wo rking f o r or s peak i ng on behalf of the 16 Russian Go vernment? 17 A. I believe not . 18 Q. Did it appear that anyone else in the 19 me e ting fr o m the Trump campaign had e v e r 20 previously inter a ct e d with him? 21 Did anyone seem like they a lre ady knew him? 22 A. From the Trump campaign, you said? 23 Q. 24 A. It appeared not. 25 Q. Ho w was Rinat Akhmetshin introduc e d? From the Trump camp a ign. 47 1 A. I d o n ' t know . 2 Q. And do you recall if he said wha t t ype of 3 bus i ness he was in or who he worked for? 4 A. I don ' t recall . 5 Q. And did he or any other at t endee cl a i m 6 tha t he was working f or or speaking on behal f of 7 th e Russian Government? 8 A. No t t hat I heard . 9 Q. Had yo u ever communica t ed wi t h h i m prior 10 to that meeting? 11 A. No t t o my knowledge . 12 Q. Did it appear t hat anyone else in t he 1 3 me e ting f r o m the Trump campaign had eve r 1 4 previously in t eracted with him? 15 A. I t d i d not appear s o . 16 Q. Did you have any reason to believe that 17 he and Mr . Mana f ort knew e a ch o t her? 18 A. I had no reason t o believe tha t. 19 Q. Do you recal l if o r ho w Ms . 20 Veselni t skaya ' s tr a nsl a t or was in t roduc e d? 21 A. Other than as a translator , no . 22 Q. Moving beyond the introducti o ns , can you 23 recount f or us , in as much de t a i l a s yo u remember , 24 wha t happened a t t hat mee t ing? 25 A. Sure . Th e me e ting began , and Do n Jr . 48 1 invi ted Ms . Veselnitskaya to present whatever it 2 was she wan t ed t o talk abou t. 3 li s tened, half didn 't. 4 glib , but didn ' t care . 5 8 I don 't wan t t o so und It was not my meeting . I had done my par t. 6 7 I, aga in, half She t alked about -- I heard her t alk abo ut names Browder , Zif f, and f u nding t o the DNC . And I didn 't know of Browder , know of Ziffs. I 9 had o bv i o u s l y heard o f the DNC. So it didn ' t -- I was waiting , if there 10 11 was some smok i ng gun , which is why I had been 12 asked to do this, and I thought if t here was , 13 there would be a reaction f r o m s o mebody aro und the 1 4 table. So I was really paying no a tt en ti on until 1 5 maybe somebody re ac ted. 16 After a few minutes o f this labored 1 7 presentat i on , Jared Kushner , who i s s i t ti ng nex t 18 to me , appeared somewha t agitated by t his and 1 9 said , I rea l ly have no idea what yo u ' re talking 20 about. Could you please focus a bi t more and 2 1 maybe jus t start aga in? 22 And I recall that she began the 23 presentat i on exac tl y where she had begun i t last 24 time, almos t word f or wo rd, wh ich seemed , by his 25 body l anguage , t o in f ur i ate him eve n mo re . 49 1 2 3 And at this p o i nt , I was f ee l ing sort o f, I' ve se t up thi s meeting , wha t -- anyway . She then continued . Aga i n , I pa i d 4 virtually no attention to this . 5 6 7 8 9 And Don Jr . t hen said , I' m really no t f o llowing thi s , wha t you 're sayi ng . At which point , she said , what I wou ld r ea lly lik e t o speak abou t i s th e Magni t sky Act . And I had never hea rd of t he Magnitsky o r 1 0 an act , and I thought , okay, maybe here ' s the 11 smoking gun or wha tever it i s t ha t' s coming . 12 th en t he next thing I s t art hearing about adoption 13 a nd sanct i o n s a nd the impact that that i s havi ng 1 4 on adop ti on and Americans . 15 18 i s when I completely tuned out and was li ke we 're hav i ng a 1 6 meeting about adoption . 17 And th a t And I don ' t get this . And t hen fr om t hen on , f or abo ut t he nex t 3 or 4 minu t es , she t a lk ed abou t Magnitsky and how 1 9 u nfair i t was a nd how u nfair sanctions were a nd 20 how , as a r es ult, it was u n f a ir th a t children who 21 wou l d o therwise have the opportun it y t o be adop ted 22 -- again , this adoption i ss ue kept coming up . At 23 wh ich point , she sa id t o Don , so I hope t ha t, you 24 25 know , you will look out f o r thi s . And he stopped this i n its tracks and 50 1 said , wi th respect , I suggest that yo u address 2 your -- wha t seemed ve ry val i d concerns but to t he 3 Obama admi n i s tr a ti o n because t hey actua ll y a re i n 4 power . My father is a private citi z en and , as 5 s u ch , it has no val idi ty , o f what you ' re saying . 6 Thank you very much f or coming . 7 your time . I apprecia t e all You kno w, we have a very busy 8 schedule , and th ank you . 9 10 And t he meet i ng ended. Q. To the best o f your recollection , did she 11 or anyone else ask t hat Donald Trump Sr . t ake any 12 13 action regarding t he Magnitsky Ac t, if elect ed? A. I d o n't th i nk she was as speci fie as "if 1 4 elected ." 15 16 17 Th e inferenc e was t here . It was more about bring i ng it to his a ttenti o n . Q. Did anyone mention the Justice Depar t men t' s l aws uit agains t Prevezon Holdings? 18 A. Not t hat I heard . 19 Q. Did Ms . Vese l n i tskaya or any o ther 20 a tt endee offer anyth i ng to t he Trump campa i gn? 21 A. Can yo u be specific what that means? 22 Q. Ass istance in the election? 23 A. Not t o my knowledge . 24 Q. So wha t, if anything , did anyone a t 25 meeting ask o f the Trump campaign? t he 51 1 A. We ll, t o the best o f my reco llection, the 2 only person to speak , apa rt from th e interruptions 3 fr om Jared and Do n Jr., was , i n f ac t, her . And 4 whilst it didn ' t sound to me like a demand , it was 5 certa i nly a request , wh i ch i s th a t they could 6 potentially pay attention to this. 7 8 And as I said , that was shut down almo st immed i a tely by him suggesting she speak with th e 9 Obama admi n i s tr a ti o n abo ut it. Q. Other than what we have already 10 11 discussed, we re any other topics discussed at the 12 meeting? 13 A. No . 14 Q. Did anyone mention Donald Trump Sr . ' s 15 upcoming birthday? 16 A. At the meeting , not that I recall . 17 Q. Did anyone , at th a t ti me , men tion the 1 8 Agalarovs sending Mr. Trump a present for his 19 birthday? 20 A. At th a t meeting , not th a t 21 Q. What role did Mr . Akhmetsh i n p l ay during 22 the meeting , if any? 23 24 25 I rec a ll. A. I didn ' t observe h i m playing any role at all . Q. What abo ut Mr . Kaveladze? 52 A. The on ly time I saw him -- he played no 1 2 r o l e i n it. He played a role when I believe I may 3 have sent h im a WhatsApp message or some s o rt o f 4 message saying , this is embarrassing . And I 5 bel i eve he kind of nodded a t me . 6 Bu t t hat ' s not a role wi t hin the mee ti ng 7 o fficially. 8 Q. When Ms . Veselnitskaya spoke , was she 9 speak i ng thr o ugh her tr ans l a tor? 10 A. I have thought about this long and hard , 11 and to t he best of my knowledge , because i t 12 appeared she was reading fr om something that had 13 been written , I believe she spo ke in English. 14 Q. And did you play any rol e during the 1 5 meeting? 16 A . No . 17 MR . DAVI S : I wo uld like you t o t ake a look 1 8 a t a f ew documents relating to V Kontak t e , VK . 19 The first is the email Bates stamped RG00007 5 to 20 6. Tha t will b e Exhibi t 21 MR . HOLMES: 22 MR . DAVIS : 23 9 , I b e lieve. Ten. Ten , sorry . [Goldstone Exhibi t 1 0 was marked for 24 25 BY MR . DAVIS : iden tifi ca ti on .] 53 Q. This is an ema il fr o m yo u t o Trump Jr . o n 1 2 Ju ne 8th , 2016 . You wr o t e , "Hey, Don . While I 3 was in Mo scow l as t we ek, I met with t he head of 4 marketing f or Russ ia' s largest social media 5 network VK , Facebook , abo ut Emin ' s projec ts, and 6 th e sub j ec t of Russian - American vo ter s i n USA came 7 up . There are over 2 . 7 mi llion reg i stered 8 Russian - speak i ng vo t e r s in t he USA and most have 9 VK s o cial medi a acco unts. The head o f market i ng , 1 0 who i s a personal fri end , i s keen to set up a 11 Trump campa i gn vo te page on VK , s i mil ar t o t he 12 mockup below, t a rg e t ed a t Ru ss i an and CI S vo ter s 13 in the USA . I will bring a printout o f this bel o w 1 4 t omo rrow." 15 Di d yo u br i ng a p ri n t o ut o f th a t mockup 1 6 to the meeting? 17 A. I don 't be lieve I did . 18 MR. DAVI S : Now I wou ld like you to t ake a 1 9 loo k at a no ther ema il cha in, Bates n umber 20 DJTJR000454 t o 456 , wh ic h will be Exhibit 11. 21 [Go l dstone Exhibit 11 was ma rk ed f o r 22 23 24 id ent ifi cat i on .] BY MR . DAVI S : Q. This i s an ema il from you to Dan Scavino , 25 copyi ng Donald Trump Jr ., Rho n a Gra ff, and 54 1 Konstantin Sidorkov . 2 2016 . 3 It was sent o n Jun e 29th , I t s t a t es , in part , " Dan , I am fol l owing 4 up an email a while back , something I had 5 men t ioned to Don and Pa u l Mana f or t during a 6 mee t ing recen t ly . 7 There are believed to be around 2 mi l l ion Russian - Ame rican voters l i v i ng i n th e 8 USA , and more th a n 1. 6 million of these use the 9 Ru s sian Facebook site V Kontakte , VK , as their 10 preferred social media ou tlet . 11 As I mentioned to you guys , through Emin and my con t a ct a t VK , t hey 1 2 wan t t o create a vo t e Trump 20 1 6 promotion aimed 1 3 d i rectly at th ese users , peop l e who wi l l b e v o t i ng 1 4 in November . At t he t ime , Pa ul had said he would 1 5 welcome it , and s o I had the VK folk s mock up a 16 basic sample page , which I am resending f o r your l7 18 a pprova l now ." Did you discuss t his VK pro posal during 1 9 th e June 9th , 2016 , me e ting? 20 A. Technica lly, not during t he meeting . 21 the way o ut , Do n Jr . kind o f thanked me . 22 said to him , I ' m sorry . 23 this meet i ng . 24 On And I I ' m really embarrassed by I don 't know wha t t hat wa s about . Paul Mana f or t was in f ront of us . And I 25 said , o h , by the way , I don ' t know if anyone saw, 55 1 but I ' m friends with the marketing guy at VK in 2 Russia , and they wan t 3 regi s tr a ti on page o r i nformat i on page for Mr . 4 Trump. 5 Dan Scavino . Who should they send this to? I ' m told And I believe Paul Manafort said , yes , 6 7 to create a vo ting great , that ' s the right pers o n. That was the extent of it. 8 So wasn 't in 9 the meeting, but it was in the r oom where the 1 0 meeting was on our way out o f the meeting . 11 Q. I s it correc t t hat Mr . Mana f or t sa id he 1 2 wou ld welcome it? 13 A. He went , great , that ' s the correct 1 4 person , which I took to mean -- he didn 't say, no , 15 16 it's an awful ide a . Q. To the best o f your knowledge , did any of 17 the o t her a tt endees overhear your conversat i on? 18 A. To the best of my knowledge , no. I think 19 they were already o ut through the g lass doo rs . 20 Q. Why did you pitch VK to th e Trump 21 campa i gn? 22 if you could get the Trump campaign to create an 23 of fi c i a l VK page? 24 Were you o ffered any payment by them, A. So I don't know VK as such , but a fri end 25 o f mine , who I met at the Mi ss Universe press 56 1 conference , who at the time worked f or NRJ Radio 2 and had b een a big suppor t er of Emin , had moved 3 into thi s job as market i ng and music partnerships 4 f or VK . Obviously, I managed someone who was a 5 mus i c i an within th a t wo rld, so we became really 6 good friends. And when he saw that I had done Miss 7 8 Universe , as ti me wen t on , he asked me whe ther it 9 wou l d be poss i b l e to find o ut who he shou l d p it ch 1 0 his little idea to . Hence , I think I sent a first 11 ema il ask i ng who i t was . 12 and it appeared that nobody had really ac t ed on 13 it . He asked me again . 14 He t hen ema il ed them, I asked again . And I t hink t his was maybe the third ask 15 as t o whether I cou l d help . 16 f or a friend. 17 18 MR . DAVI S : I was re a lly doing it Let ' s take a look a t an ema il exchange Bates stamped RG000003 to 7 . This will 1 9 be Exhibit 1 2 . 20 [Go ldston e Exhibi t 1 2 was marked for 21 22 23 24 25 i dentification .] BY MR . DAVIS : Q. Pages 4 and 5 are an ema il fr om Konstan ti n Sidorkov to you on January 1 8th , 20 1 6 . I s Mr . Sidorkov the fri e nd you were 57 1 referencing? 2 A. Yes . 3 Q. Loo k i ng at page 3 , it appears yo u 4 forwarded Mr . Sidorkov ' s email to Rhona Graff and 5 Donald Trump Jr . on Janu a ry 19th , 2016 , to p a ss 6 along Mr. Sidorkov ' s invitation for Trump Sr. to 7 set up an o fficial page o n VK . And she then 8 copied Dan Scavino , who she says was heading up 9 so c i a l media f o r the campaigns . Page 6 is an email from Mr . Scavino 10 11 telling you to send wha tever you had on this . 12 And page 7 is an email from Mr . Sidorkov 13 to Mr . Scavino , Ms . Graff , and Trump Jr ., sending 1 4 them more info on VK . 15 To the bes t of your knowl edge , d i d anyone 16 from the Trump campaign , in response to this 17 a ttempt in January 2 0 1 6 , t a ke any a ct i on to 18 establish an official VK page? 19 A. To the best of my knowledge , they did 20 not . 21 Q. Both your January and June ema i ls 22 referenced meetings with VK personnel in Moscow . 23 Di d those meetings occur? 24 A. The only person I ever met connected with 25 VK was Konstantin Sidorkov . 58 1 Q. Do you have any reason to believe anyo n e 2 a t VK was ac ti ng on b eha lf o f t he Russian 3 Government , as opposed t o usu a l bus i ness 4 interests? 5 A. I have no re ason to be lieve t hat . 6 Q. So we have a lre ady l ooked a t 7 a nd June VK pitches . 8 MR . DAVIS : 9 1 44 . That wo ul d be Exh i b i t 1 3 . 10 Now l e t' s l ook a t 13 RG0001 43 to [Goldstone Exhibit 13 was marked for 11 12 th e January id en t ifica t ion .] BY MR . DAVI S : Q. This appears to be a n email se nt o n 1 4 November 5t h , 2016 , as a foll ow- up ema il to t he 15 June VK ema il. I n thi s fol l o w- up ema il, Mr. 16 Sidorkov again emai l s you , Mr . Scavi no , Trump Jr ., 17 and Rhona Graf f, 18 o ff i c i a l VK page . 19 20 21 reques t ing Trump Sr . set up an So you pitched VK t o the campa i g n in January , June , and November of 201 6 . To the best of yo ur knowl edge , a t any 2 2 point , did the campaign ever accept your pitch and 23 establish an o ff icial VK page? 24 A. To th e bes t o f my knowledge , no . 25 Q. Okay, returning t o the June 9th , 2016 , 59 1 meeting now , was Mr . Kushner present f or the 2 entire meeting? 3 A. To the best of my knowl edge , he was . He 4 may have entered a minute or so after we all 5 entered , but I believe he was . 6 that is because of the seating. 7 who should sit where, and I sat next to Mr . 8 Kushner . 9 o f the table. 10 11 12 And the reason for They wo rk ed out There was only he and I sat a t this side Q. What did Mr . Manafort do during the meeting? A. He -- I remember this specifically. He 13 did not look up fr om checking his phone fr om the 14 moment we b egan until the moment we ended . 15 Q. Did he ask any quest i ons 16 A. No . 17 Q. 18 A. None. 19 Q. And was he present for the e ntire -- -- or make any comments? 20 meeting? 21 A. He was . 22 Q. Beyond the comments you ' ve already 23 described, what did Mr . Trump Jr . do during the 24 25 meeting , if anything? A. Nothing beyond the comments I've 60 1 described. 2 Q. Did you t ake any notes a t 3 A. I did not. 4 Q. Did anyone else , as far as you could 5 th e meeting? tell? 6 A. As far as I could tell, nobody did. 7 Q. Did any of the attendees bring any 8 documents to th e meeting? 9 A. I be liev e, as I ment i oned , Ms . 1 0 Vese lnitskaya was reading from something that 11 looked like it was either bullet points or notes 12 or something , because she was glancing down at it. 13 14 I didn ' t see anybody e lse with anything . Q. Do you know if she l e ft that document at 15 the end o f the meet i ng? 16 A. I have no idea. 17 Q. To the best of your knowledge , wha t ti me 1 8 did the meeting begin and when did it end? 19 A. As I say, we were running slightly late, 20 so th e meeting would've b eg un somewhere a round 21 4 :10, 4 :15, and wou l d ' v e been ove r, at the most , 22 within 2 0 minutes . 23 Q. And how was the mee ting concluded? 24 A. As I said , by Don cutting off Ms . 25 Vesel nitskaya and saying these concerns should be 61 1 addressed to the Obama administration . 2 th a t, th a nk yo u ve ry much f o r yo ur at t endance , 3 everybody . 4 And wi th And th e inference was that they were very 5 busy, and we should le ave. 6 Q. Other t han th e mee ti ng a tte ndees , did you 7 speak wi th anyo n e e l se from the Trump Organizat i o n 8 on June 9t h , 201 6 ? 9 10 A. I be liev e no t. MR . DAVIS: Please take a l ook at this email 11 exch ange Ba tes st amped RG0 000 82. 12 Exhibit 14. 13 [Go ldstone Exhibit 14 was mark e d f o r 14 This will be id en tifi ca ti on .] 15 BY MR . DAVIS : 16 Q. Thi s is an email exchange betwee n yo u and 17 Rhon a Gr a ff sen t on June 1 0 t h , 2 0 1 6 , t he day a fter 1 8 th e Trump Tower mee ti ng . Yo u wrote , in part , 19 2 0 q ue s tion. " I have a d e l ivery Emi n and Aras have a fairly s i zable 2 1 birthda y gift for Mr . Trump, and I wo uld li ke to 22 know exac tly how and where we sho uld deliver it to 23 on Tuesd ay . 24 I r an int o Ke ith yes terd ay , a nd he men ti oned eve rythi ng now has to go to your TSA- 25 styl e scann i ng and security at Trump To wer ." 62 1 I s the Keith you re fe renced in this email 2 Ke it h Schi ll er? 3 A. I t is . 4 Q. And he was Mr . Trump Sr . ' s bodyguard . 5 that correct? 6 7 Is A. As I understood , or head of securi t y or something like that . 8 Q. Did Mr . Schiller a tt end t he meeting on 9 June 9th? 10 A. He didn ' t . 11 Q. Okay . 12 Wha t did yo u discuss wi t h h i m there? A. Haven ' t seen you s in ce Mosco w. 13 14 I ran into h im by Starbucks . everyt hing is good . You must be busy . Ho pe That k ind 15 o f thi ng . And I asked , if there was -- if we had 16 17 anyt h ing t hat had to be delivered , how did it now 1 8 work? Did we have to send t hings as normal to 1 9 Rho na , li ke messages or letters o r anything , 20 because there had been some congratulatory 21 letters , I thi nk , in the past , or how? 22 And he just said , you know , everything 23 now , it's like an a irport-st y le TSA down t here . 24 25 Q. And I assume not , but was Trump Sr . wi t h him at the time? 63 A. No . 1 2 I assume he was buyi ng c o ffe e o r tea or some t hing . Q. Af t er t he meet i ng wi t h Trump Jr., what 3 4 did you do with the rest o f that day? A. I go t 5 6 home to New Jers ey . Q. Did y o u discuss the meet i ng with any o f 7 8 i n an Uber and wen t the oth e r a tt endees on t hat day? A. No . 9 They were gr o uped in t he l o bby . 1 0 They were going , I believe, to also grab coffee or 11 do some t h i ng . I t h i nk I was i nvi t ed , too, and I 12 said , no , no , I have a car here . 13 Goodbye . 14 15 I' m leav ing. Q. Did you report back t o Emin or Aras abou t the meeting? 16 A. Emin immediately . 17 Q. And how did yo u describe it t o h i m? 18 A. I said , t his was th e mos t embarrassing 1 9 thing you ' ve ever asked me t o do . 20 in a meeting abou t adop ti on . 21 22 I' ve j ust sat Q. Did y o u speak wi t h h im by phone or some other 23 A. Phone . 24 Q. Okay . 25 A. Adoption? And wha t was his r eac ti on? And I said , you sho uld 64 1 pro bably speak t o Ike . 2 Q. Did you mention t he meeting t o anyone 3 e l se between the time it occurred and when the 4 media and lawyers began asking about it in the 5 spr i ng and summer o f 20 1 7? A. I t hink I t old anyone who would listen 6 7 that I had been in s o me hide o us meeting that was 8 really embarrassing . 9 the detai l s of what it was . I didn 't necessarily go into But I -- it wo uld be 10 fair to say that I ' m sure I talked about it with 11 f riends a t dinner , as i t' s some t h i ng t hat I had a 12 horrible experience set t ing up a meeting , yes . MR . FOSTER : 13 14 Tower with -- 15 16 MR . GOLDSTONE : Yeah , pr obably spec i f i cal l y a meeting at Trump Tower , yes . 17 18 Specifi cal l y a meeting at Trump MR . DAVI S : I think we are at a good s t opping poin t, so we will go of f the record now . 19 [ Recess 10 : 42 a . m. t o 10 : 59 a . m.] 20 MR . PRIVOR : 21 It i s 1 0 : 59 . 22 23 EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR THE MINORITY BY MR . PRI VOR : 24 25 Le t' s go back on the record . Q. Mr . Goldstone , thank you f or coming in today . I am g o i ng t o be retrac i ng s o me o f the 65 1 steps that Mr. Davis already went o ver , so I 2 a pologize in adva nc e . 3 A . No pr oblem . 4 Q. Some of it will sound repetitive. 5 re a lly just trying t o f ollow up and fill in some I'm 6 gaps where I had some other questions . First , 7 8 background. 9 li v e. I j ust want to start with your Mr . Davis had asked you whe r e you And I wo ndered, have you ever li ved i n 1 0 Russia? 11 A. Li ved in Russi a? 12 Q. Okay . No, never . And do you have any other ties to 13 Russia , o ther than d o i ng wo rk f or the Aga l aro vs? 14 A . Well , I beli eve t hat my grea t- grandmother 15 was fr om Minsk . 16 17 Q. In the present day, have you had any o t her business in Russi a? 18 A. No. 19 Q. And y o u had ment i o n e d that your present 20 work from 19 97 to the present is Oui 2 21 Entertainment, but y o u n o longer wo rk for Emin 22 Agalarov . Is that right? 23 A. Th a t is right. 24 Q. When did you s top working for him? 25 A . Approximately -- well , not appro ximately . 66 1 2 3 4 5 December 30th of 2016 . Q. What occasioned your no longer working for him? A. The main reason was that, for some time , I wa nted t o take a g a p year to write a book 6 called, "Never Mind the Gap ," to see if a 507 something- year - old could reenact what students d o 8 in t erms of taking a gap year, and go and live 9 somewhere exotic and be like a barista , and go t o 10 trekking in Nepal, and how different it would be 11 wh en you are in your 50s and whe n you a re a t 12 13 university. And I d eci d e d that the timi ng was right , 1 4 before I go t even older than I am now , I should 15 pr obably do it. And s o I let Emin know in October 16 of 2016 that I planned to do that. 17 18 It a lso coincided with h i m hav ing hired a new head o f A&R , which is artis t and repertoire, 19 in the U.K., who was also a manager. And I 20 believed t hat I was le aving him in good hands , 21 that thi s guy wou ld ultimately, which he did , take 22 over as manager . 23 24 Q. So wha t other t han pursu ing t h i s gap year project , was t here any other reason that you 25 decided to stop working f or Mr . Aga l arov? 67 1 2 A. The re was als o a financial compo n e nt, th a t because he had hired this new person, our fe e 3 was pr obably g o i ng t o be reduced. We h adn 't 4 talked about specifics , but o nce that was 5 suggested , I sa id, you know , we don't need to do 6 any of that because I've wanted to do this gap 7 year anyway , s o it ' s a perfect time for me t o take 8 a year off . 9 Q. And were there any o ther reas o ns? 10 A. 11 Q. Was your dep ar ture fr om wo rking for Mr . No . 12 Agalarov i n any way related to this June 9th 13 meeting? 14 A. It was not . 15 Q. Or any f a ll o ut fr om the meet i ng? 16 A. It was not . 17 Q. How has your relat i onship with Mr . 1 8 Agalarov been since that Jun e 9th meeting? 19 remained the same? 20 Has it Has it s o ured at all? A. You know , a fe w months a ft e r I l e ft in 21 March o f 20 1 7 , I met with h im in Lo ndon . 22 there . 23 Dorchester Hotel. 24 picture . I was there . He was We had breakfast at the And he said , I wa nt to t ake a And he posted immediat e ly, Rob and I are 25 back in business t o gether . And he g o es , l o ok , 68 1 you ' ve made your p o int. 2 year . 3 Do n't g o and do this gap And I actual l y sa id t o him, yo u need to 4 take that down, and he wouldn ' t . 5 And I said fine , and I sen t an ema il to him and everybody connec t ed 6 with it just t o say, by the way , despite him being 7 a bi t 8 tog e ther. 9 funny and clever , we ' re not still working I'm still pursuing my year . Since then, I saw him i n May when he 1 0 toured in the U. S ., and I had dinner with him . 11 And aga i n , he said , you know , please come back . 12 I know you 're going to leave in June and go and live 13 in Asia for 6 rrDnths . I didn ' t come back to wo rk for Emin . 14 15 And we had ve ry, ve ry nice -- you know , Emin and I had a wo nderfu l relationship, a 16 wonderful working relationship . 17 18 He's fu n to wo rk wit h . He ' s a great guy . And since t hen , since this has all broken, I' ve had a couple o f emails , 19 the most recent o n my b i rthday , abo ut 10 days ago , 20 in wh ich he said , I wish you we ll, and I miss our 21 22 great time s together. Q. It sounds like you have a decent or a 23 pos iti ve rel a ti onsh i p , bu t my quest i on was , has 24 your relationship soured at all? Has your 25 relat i o nship diminished in any way with him s i nce 69 1 2 3 th e June 9th me eting? A. It hadn 't until news of t his broke, wh ich is i n July of this ye a r. When I sent a couple of 4 messages, WhatsApp messages , that simply said , yo u 5 know, I believe th a t t h is -- I t h ink t he wo rds I 6 us ed was t his dumb meeting , wh ich your father 7 insist e d on , has real ly dama g ed my reputation and 8 my ability to do business, both of wh ich it has . 9 Q. Okay . And in what way h as your 1 0 relationship diminished with him? 11 A. I don't know th a t I wo uld wan t to wo rk in 12 th e same capacity f or him in t he futur e . And a t 13 the time I l e ft, there was an o pen-e nded that I 14 possibly would come back af t er t hat . And par t of 15 th a t, if no t a ll of th a t, wou ld be due t o the 16 p os iti o n I believe I was put in. 17 Q. And yo u mentioned -- we a re going t o 1 8 spend some more time on th e public r e l eas e o f th e 1 9 statements re l ated t o the June 9th meet i ng , but 20 yo u had men ti oned yo u making statemen t s a bout the 21 June 9th meeting. 22 you o r upset, based o n statements you had made? 23 A. No, a nd t o this d ay has never made any 24 Wa s Emin in an y way angry wi th angry s t a t eme nts abou t 25 have said . it or criticism o f wha t I 70 1 Q. Yo u als o re fe renced commun i cat i o ns via 2 Wha t sApp , a nd I think this morning you also 3 mentioned some exch ange you h a d during the Jun e 4 9th mee ting to Ik e Kave ladz e via WhatsApp . The 5 document production th a t yo u gave to u s , does th a t 6 includ e d o cument s fro m Whats App? 7 A. There are d o cuments from WhatsApp . 8 Unfo rtun a t ely, you know , I don't have the 9 communica tion fr om Ike from t ha t meet i ng . 1 0 couldn 't find it. 11 And I look comp letely s tupi d . I I will now make mys e lf I don 't know any o t her 12 way other than wha t we' ve d on e, we' ve d on e a 13 tho r o ugh search , o f being a ble t o pro vide that . 1 4 I'm no t t e rribly t echnical . 15 Q. Fa ir eno ugh . So jus t s o we 're clea r, 1 6 your search f or records to produce in response t o 17 Senator Gr a ssley's letter included a se arch o f 1 8 Wha t sApp ? 19 A. It did, yes . 20 Q. And did you sea rch a ll of your social 2 1 medi a pl a tforms t ha t yo u u s e? 22 A. I did . 23 Q. Ok ay . 24 Very well. We ' v e t a lked a bi t about th e wo rk t hat you have done , mostly as a 25 publicist a nd art i st management . Have you ever 71 1 done any l o bbying work y o urself? 2 A. I have not . 3 Q. Have you ever d o ne any work on behalf of 4 the Russian Go vernment? 5 A. I have not . 6 Q. Have you done any work related to U.S. 7 sancti o ns? 8 A. I have not . 9 Q. Have you done any wo rk related to the 10 Magnitsky Act? 11 A. I have not . 12 Q. We discussed -- with Mr. Davis this 13 morning , y o u discussed y o ur relati o nship with both 1 4 of the Agalarovs , and you stated that you didn ' t 15 kno w of the i r relat i o nship with the Russian 16 Go vernment . Do I have that right? 17 A. Yes . 18 Q. I' m curious , particularly wi t h respect to 19 Aras Agalarov . You ' ve als o testified that , during 20 the Miss Universe pageant , you were trying to 21 arrange a meeting wi th Pres i dent Putin . 22 23 being A. I wasn ' t trying to arrange , but it was t here wa s an ef f or t 24 Q. Who was arranging? 25 A. Aras . t o try to arr a nge i t . Who made tha t effort? 72 1 2 3 Q. Okay . Peskov , his spo kesperson , had reached out to Aras . I s that right? 4 A. Yes . 5 Q. Okay. 6 7 And you a l so ment i o ned that Mr . And so you knew that at the time in 20 1 3? A. Yes , because I was in the r o om at the 8 time t he call was made -- myself , Emin , Mr . Trump, 9 pr obably Ke it h Schi ller because he seemed to be 10 with Mr . Trump all the time , Aras . 11 Q. And so based on t hat , do you have a view 12 on whether or not Mr . Agalarov has a relationship 1 3 wi th the Russian Go vernment? 14 A. No, no t really. 15 Q. Yo u d o n 't know wha t 16 A. I don ' t know what his relationship is. 17 Q. But do you know t hat he does have some his relationship is? 1 8 relationship? 19 A. I d o n't. 20 Q. Well , sufficient enough for Mr . Peskov to 21 cal l him on h i s pers o na l phone? 22 A. Sufficient enough for that . 23 Q. And su ffi c i ent to arr a nge a meet i ng wi t h 24 25 the President , Presiden t Pu ti n? A. I t was , i n context , the meet i ng was be i ng 73 1 requested because a very we l l - kno wn VI P and co - 2 owner of t he pagean t, wh i ch was be i ng s t aged in 3 the Russian cap i tal , was t here , who was h i gh - 4 profile enough for a request to be made . It was 5 on t hat bas i s th a t I u nders t ood th a t t he reques t 6 would be made . 7 Q. Other than that 201 3 ef f ort t o arrange a 8 mee ti ng between Pres i dent Trump , t hen j us t a 9 priva t e c i t i zen , and Pres i den t Pu t in , we ' ve seen a 10 document this morning that Mr . Davis showed you 11 wh ere you had o ff ered ano t her oppor t uni t y , if Mr . 12 Trump traveled t o Moscow for Aras ' 60 t h bir t hday , 1 3 perhaps you could reach o ut to Emi n , and Emi n 1 4 could arrange a mee ti ng with Mr . Pu ti n . 15 Other t han tho se two ins t ances , 20 1 3 and 16 then the 60th birthday event , if it occurred , do 17 you know o f any o t her t i mes wh en t he Agalarovs had 1 8 made any o f fers to arrange a meeting be t ween 19 Pr es id e nt Put i n and now- Pr es id e nt Trump? 20 A. I don 't know of any other ti me . 21 Q. Do you know of any o t her ins t ances in 22 which anyone else has made an effort to arrange a 23 mee t ing between President Pu t i n and President 24 25 Trump? A. I d o n ' t . 74 1 Q. Yo u were recount i ng yo ur relat i o nship 2 with Emin Agalarov . 3 4 5 6 7 When i s t he last time t hat you spoke to him? A. Just for me , would you clarify, does spoke include -- do you mean physically spoke? Q. I' m sorry . I should ' ve -- when is the last time you communicated with him , whether i t be 8 by t elephone or some other messaging? 9 o f thi s year was my A. 10 birthday. He sent me a WhatsApp message for my 11 b i r t hday , which I bel ieve we have produced . 12 responded. And I He asked -- he said he hoped I was 1 3 doing wel l, and I respo nded thank i ng him f o r the 1 4 message , sayi ng I was do i ng as well as I could 15 under the c ir cums t ances . 16 Q. And what are those circumstances? 17 A. The f act that I have been at the cen ter 1 8 of a media blitz, apart fro m anything else , since 1 9 July 9th or 10th . 20 Q. Did Mr . Agalarov respond to you, when you 2 1 made th at remark abou t yo ur c ir cums t ances? 22 A. He did. He said he hoped that soon the 23 clo ud s wo ul d p a ss a nd there would be sunshine . 24 Q. And has t here been any f ur t her 25 communication wi th him since he made that remark? 75 1 A. No . 2 Q. Did Mr. Agalarov know that you were 3 comi ng i n to spe ak t o this committ ee? 4 A. Not that I know o f. 5 Q. Have you spoken t o any o t her 6 7 congressional commi tt ees? MR . GAGE : We ll, d o you really want to -- I 8 don 't have a problem with th a t. I don 't know wha t 9 the gr o und rules a re f o r Co ngress . 1 0 question that you all ask , I don ' t If th a t' s a have any 11 problem wit h Rob answer i ng . 12 MR. 13 MR . GAGE : 14 15 PRI VOR : So that i s traditional? MR . PRI VOR : traditional . l7 to others? I d o n 't know if it is I ' m just curious . MR. GAGE : 19 because when I Have you spoken I don 't want to breach pro t ocol , first reached out t o -- and I am 20 glad t o have him answer . 21 That i s a question you ask . 16 18 Go ahead . Don 't misunders t and me . But the protocol was there wasn 't a l o t of 22 communication between committees . 23 if t hat is a ques ti on th a t others have been asked, 24 if t here is no problem wi t h pro t ocol , I have no 25 pro blem wi th him answer i ng . If I am wrong , 76 1 MS . SAWYER: I'm not aware of any pro blem 2 with protocol in asking th a t question as to who he 3 may have testified before . 4 MR . GAGE : 5 wan ted to check . 6 everybody . Fine . You understand why I I just wan ted to be f ai r to 7 MS . SAWYER: Sure . 8 MR . FOSTER: I will say, we had spoken -- we 9 Absolutely . have asked th at quest i on of o ther witnesses . 10 MR . GAGE : Certainly not trying -- go ahead . 11 MR . GOLDSTONE : Yesterd ay , I me t wi th the 12 Senate I n t e lligenc e Committee . 13 BY MR . PRI VOR : 14 Q. And any o thers besides th a t one? 15 A. No . 16 Q. Did you tell Emin Agalarov that you had 17 spoken to ano ther congressional committee? 18 A. I did not. 19 Q. Have you discussed your testimony here 20 t oday with anyone other th an your lawye rs? 21 A. I have not . 22 MS . SAWYER : 23 Can I ask a quick question abo ut the WhatsApp? 2 4 BY MS . SAWYER 25 Q. Yo u said you had searched and yo u 77 1 couldn ' t find the WhatsApp message that you 2 believe you sen t t o Mr . Kaveladze during t he 3 meeting . Di d you f i nd other WhatsApp messages 4 with Mr . Kaveladze at all? 5 6 7 A. Yes , there is one small chain t hat I d i d f ind , yes . Q. Okay . So you know that you did use 8 Wha t sApp and you had messages . You j us t don 't 9 have t hat message? 10 A. No , I only have one small series of 11 mess a ges . I don 't know f or s u re t hat I used 1 2 Wha t sApp , but mos t o f the time I do . 13 So t hat leads me t o bel i eve that i s what I used . 1 4 BY MR . PRI VOR : 15 Q. Yo u had ment i o ned Ro man Beniami nov 16 earlier this morning . You stated that you 1 7 probably disc u ssed t h i s mee t ing wi th him and 1 8 possibly others . Wha t do you remember from your 1 9 conversat i o n with Mr . Beni aminov? 20 A. I was angry when I came ou t of the 2 1 mee t ing , s o Roman was a good vent i ng post for me 22 on many things . 23 d i s t r i c t. 24 And we lived very -- in the same We o f ten saw each other f or co ff ee . And , 25 I was p i ssed . f or sure , I would ' ve said , you know , I thought I was organizing o n e 78 1 me eti ng. 2 I didn't think I was staying . having to stay . 3 I Here I am All of th a t. d o n't know the detai l of it, but I am 4 sure I would ' ve spoken to him about it. 5 6 7 Q. Okay, that's a fter the June 9th meeting. How about before the June 9th meeting? Did you also speak t o Mr . Beniamino v? 8 A. I'm sure I would ' ve done , yes . 9 Q. Do you rec a ll what your conversation with 1 0 him was? 11 A. I do not . 12 Q. Do you recall whether or no t Mr. 13 Beniamino v had expressed any c o ncern about the 1 4 meeting th a t you we re working to arrange? 15 A. I d o n 't be liev e he expressed concern , no . 16 Q. Not to you . 17 A. Not to me . 18 Q. Did you sp eak with anyone els e about th e 19 June 9th meeting befo re it occurred? 20 21 22 A. Most lik e ly would' ve told my business partner , David Wi l son . Q. Do you recall any o f your conversation 23 wit h Mr . Wilson? 24 A. I don 't. 25 Q. Anyo n e e lse other than Mr . Wils o n? 79 1 A. No t 2 Q. Okay, so th e only t wo people you can 3 that I can recal l. rec a ll a re Mr . Wi l son and Mr. Ben i aminov? 4 A. I possibly wou ld've spoken to Mr . 5 Kave l a d ze abo ut it, because o f t he logistics o f it 6 all . 7 Q. And other than log i stics , can you reca l l 8 any ot he r conversation wit h h i m about th e con t en t 9 o r the substance of t he meeting before it 1 0 occ urr ed ? 11 A. I can 't rec a ll, no . 12 Q. You obvi ous ly spok e t o Emin Agalarov , 13 is that right? 14 A. Yes . 15 Q. Okay . And d i d you communicate wit h h im 1 6 by telephone or was it just 17 A. Telephone usu a ll y . 18 Q. Okay . 19 A. A mixture o f telepho n e a nd WhatsApp , 20 depending on wha t it was . 21 Q. And Mr . Agalarov , Emi n Aga l a r ov , he gave 22 you some instruct i on on what the meeting wo uld b e 23 abo ut. I s t hat r i ght? 24 A. Yes , he did . 25 Q. And he mentioned the wel l- c o nne cted 80 1 attorney . 2 A. Yes . 3 Q. Wh i ch yo u i n t erpre t ed as someo ne who has 4 some sort of political connection? 5 A. I i n t erpre t ed i t as t hat , yes . 6 Q. Did you ever ask him specifically who 7 this att o rney was? A. Yes , many t imes . 8 On tha t call , I kept 9 pushing -- no t many t i mes , maybe three times . The reason for that wasn ' t because I 10 11 wan t ed t o know . The reason is I believed I would 1 2 be asked i f I sen t such an email. 13 it? 14 15 What is i t? Well , who is That was my reas o n f o r i t . Q. Other t han tha t call , did you ever follow up t o ask who this person was? 16 A. I don ' t believe so . 17 Q. And how abou t a ft er t he June 9t h mee t ing? 18 Did you ever have a further conversa t ion with 19 Emin about who the l awyer was? Maybe this time he 20 would tell you who she was . 21 A. I d o n ' t be l ieve I did , no , except the one 2 2 where I said I ' m really embarrassed and mad about 23 i t. Bu t t hat wasn 't abou t who she wa s . 24 about I believe I sat in some weird mee t ing about 25 ado pt i o n . I t was 81 1 Q. I n the cal l that preceded the June 9th 2 mee ti ng with Emin , you stated tha t Emin described 3 hav i ng damaging informa t ion concern i ng Hi l lary . 4 A. The lawyer having damaging , not Emin . 5 Q. I' m sorry . I miss t a t ed t hat . 6 would have damaging in f orma t ion . 7 The lawyer And you reacted by saying that you thought i t was a bad idea and 8 tha t you don 't know anyt hing abou t p o l iti cs . 9 A. I reac t ed , ini t ial l y , i n ask i ng him t o 10 elaborate , again , because I said I was sure I was 11 going to be asked . 12 And he sa i d i t doesn 't ma t ter . You just need t o get the mee t ing . 13 And then I said I th i nk th i s is a real l y 1 4 bad i dea . 15 Q. Why did yo u t h i nk i t was a bad idea? 16 A. Because it ' s political . 1 7 manager . I ' m a music He ' s a musician a nd a b u s i nessman . And 1 8 we ' d never t alked po l itics abou t anything . And 1 9 why would he want to get i nvo l ved in th i s? It was 20 21 j us t my gut reaction t o th i s reques t. Q. I want to explore t he bad i dea a l i t t le 22 bit , so pardon me if it sounds like I ' m being 23 24 repet i t i ve . Bu t did you perceive i t as a bad idea for 25 you o r f o r Mr . Agalarov o r f o r b o th? 82 A. I believed -- I perceived it as you get 1 2 ve ry few, in my opinion, requ es ts and favors of 3 people a t the lev el o f a Dona l d Trump even i n h i s 4 private life, and obviously he was running in the 5 pol iti cal wor ld. And you should use t hose 6 sparingly . 7 So fr om a very selfish perspective , on 8 their b eha lf, I wanted to b e sure th a t it was 9 worth using up one of these f avo rs, and that it 1 0 was worth it. 11 And because no one appeared -- like Emin couldn ' t a ppe a r t o tell me in any mo re detail 1 2 wha t it was about , I believed it migh t' ve been a 13 bad idea and a waste of a b i g favor to ask f or a 1 4 mee ti ng a t a very busy ti me . 15 Q. What underst and ing, if any , do you have 16 as to the reason that Emin wanted to arrange this 1 7 mee ti ng to provide a link to a l awyer who may have 1 8 damaging information on Hillary Clinton? 19 A. On l y o n e , wh i ch i s that -- how he opened 20 the message , wh ich was t hat the lawyer had me t 2 1 wit h his father that morn i ng who had asked th a t we 22 set up a meeting with the Trumps . 23 i mp lic a ti on to me was th a t 24 had asked him . 25 So the i t was h i s f a ther t hat Q. And do you have any understand i ng o f why 83 1 his fath er was s o interested in acting as a 2 conduit to provide information concerning Hillary 3 Cli nton? 4 A. I don ' t . 5 Q. And do you underst and what Aras ' 6 relationship is with Mr . Trump? 7 8 A. Inasmuch as , technically , I am the pers o n th a t i n trod uc ed them th e first time, his 9 rel a ti onsh ip was a ve ry cordial bus i ness 10 relationship o f somebody who co - owned a pageant , 11 as i n Mr . Trump , and somebody who helped 12 facilitate it being held i n Moscow , as i n Mr. 13 Agalaro v . 14 15 Q. Had you eve r heard Aras Agalarov express any suppo rt for Don a ld Trump running f o r Pres i dent 16 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. -- before t his time? 19 A. Yes . 20 Q. And o ther t han a rra ng ing or asking you t o 21 a rr ange this meet i ng v i a Emi n , had he ever made 22 any other efforts that you are aware o f to he lp 23 Donald Trump wi t h regard t o h i s elect i on e ff orts? 24 25 A. Yes. And I believe we submitted this. He sent him , via me , via a l etter to Rhona, via 84 1 v i a Roman , Ro man Be niami nov , who d e l ive r e d i t , a 2 copy of a book t hat he had writ t en on economi cs 3 and a note t o Mr . Trump , i n which he sa i d he hoped 4 he would read it , and it would give him great 5 ins i ght into poss i bly a way to run a co u n t ry 6 e conomical l y . 7 Q. And other than pro viding that b o ok and 8 trying t o a rrange th i s me e ting , were t here any 9 o t her e f for t s tha t y o u a re awa re of where he was 1 0 seeking to assist Do nald Trump -11 A. No . 12 Q. -- in his e l ec t ion? 13 A . No , 14 Q. Ho w abou t there were not . Emin , we re there a ny ot her 15 e f for t s o r other of f ers o f as sist an ce fr o m Emi n , 16 o ther than the June 9 th meeting? 17 A . E ff orts a nd a ssist a nce , 18 Q. We r e th e r e eve r any o f f e rs of assistance? 19 A. No . 20 21 no . Th ere were -- there were n o o f f ers o f ass i stance a t all . Q. When Mr . Dav i s was h av i ng y o u l oo k a t 22 email that set up the meeting , 23 mee t ing , wh i ch I believe -- i t' s Exhibi t 24 you have Exhibi t 25 t he the June 9 th 1. Do Oh , it 1 i n f ront of you? A . I t ' s j ust n o t marked , b ut yes . is 85 1 mark e d . 2 3 Q. Mr . Davi s had asked you abou t i t s governmen t' s suppor t Russi a a nd f o r Mr . Trump , and you 4 had described how you had been t o Russia 1 2 o r 13 5 t i mes , a nd people were gener a lly glowi ng abou t Mr . 6 Trump on t elevision . 7 A. And i n pers o n . 8 Q. And in person . Other t han wha t you had 9 watched o n te l evision and what yo u had observed o f 1 0 just people abo ut Russia , were there any othe r 11 b a ses f or wh ich you thought there wa s Russi a n 1 2 Governmen t suppor t 13 A. On l y that for Mr . Trump? this would come at a time 1 4 when Mr . Trump was in Russia . 15 I had seen the inter a ction o f busines s leaders who h a d met wi th 16 him at a dinner , a cocktail party that had been 17 a rr a nged , and i t wa s a love f est . And re a lly, th a t 1 8 is what I was trying t o conve y , was tha t, hey , 19 look , this i s yet another examp l e o f Russ i ans 20 loving your dad typ e of thing , led by Emin and 2 1 Aras , who lov e yo ur d a d . 22 Q. But in you r email t o Don ald Trump Jr ., 23 you re f er not to just generally Russi a ns . 24 specified governmen t suppor t . You What made you t hink 25 there was government support f or Mr . Trump? 86 A. Probably -- oh , what made me think o f it 1 2 was th a t 3 I had seen Mr . Trump praise President Put i n o n TV. 4 Mr . Trump . I had s een Pres i dent Putin praise And to me , that is the government , and 5 th a t i s the governmen t mo uthing its support f or 6 th e candida t e . 7 8 So it was part o f my e ffort t o schmo oze - it's only word I know how to us e , and I'm happy 9 to tr ans l a te it -- with Don Jr . to get thi s 10 meeting . 11 Q. Do you speak Russian? 12 A. I speak a f ew words. 13 traffic . 14 15 16 17 18 I can say, I can curse t he " Hell o , h o w are y o u? It's a nice day ," because I spent 5 years th e r e . Q. Do you underst and Russ i an when it i s spoken to you? A. I can underst and the mos t simple -- if someone understands that I r ea lly don't, yes. Bu t 19 I couldn ' t -- I couldn ' t sit in a meeting and 20 21 und e rstand wha t was going on, no . Q. If you were t o watch Russian telev i s i o n , 2 2 would you be able to follow what is being said? 23 A. No, bu t I wo uld underst and cer t a i n words . 24 Q. I see. Keeping with Exhibit 1 and your 25 ema il to Do nald Trump Jr .' we had talked about the 87 1 o fficial d ocume nts and informati o n . Had you ever 2 seen any official documents or information? 3 A. No . 4 Q. Did Emin ever provide anything to you in 5 adva nce of the meet i ng? 6 A . No . 7 Q. Did you d o anything to prepare for the 8 meeting in advance ? For instance , did you review 9 any mater i a l s in advance? 10 A. I did not . 11 Q. You also descr i bed the in f orma t ion th a t 12 you were providing as very high - level and 13 sensitive . What gave you the impression that it 1 4 was high - level and sensitive? 15 A. The fact that I had been told that it was 16 p oten tially damaging information about the DNC and 17 Hi ll a ry Clinton . 18 on the words , but to me , that is highly sensitive 19 and confidential . 20 21 22 I mean , i t wa s my judgment c a ll I mean , it appeared so to me , even having no ide a what it was . Q. And the damaging information , i s that a phrase that Emin had used? 23 A. Yes . 24 Q. And did you ask what he meant by damaging 25 information? 88 1 A. Yes . 2 Q. Wha t d i d he say? 3 A. It doesn 't mat t er . 4 get a meeting . Al l you have to do is Ike will coordinate . You don ' t 5 even have to at t end , wh i ch I also write somewhere 6 in one o f these emai l s . You just have t o get the 7 meeting . 8 Q. Di d it give you pause t hat you were being 9 asked to a rrange a meet i ng t o provide damag i ng 1 0 information about a U. S . presidential candidate? 11 A. I t didn't only g i ve me pause , t he 12 thought, I spec ifically write, which I don 't 13 usual l y do i n ema i ls to people , you know , what do 14 you think is t he best way to handle this? And 1 5 wou l d you be ab l e to speak t o Emin abo ut it 16 directly? 17 Th at is my way o f saying to Don t hat is 1 8 wha t 19 you should do. Q. Mr . Davis had asked you about the 20 mee ti ng , whe ther you tr ea t ed t he meeting as cover t 21 o r made any effor t t o h i de it, and you sa i d no , 22 because you even posted about attending on 23 Facebook . 24 A. Yeah . 25 Q. But i t sounds l ike you nevertheless f e l t 89 1 that the i nfo rmat i o n that would be c o nveyed dur i ng 2 the mee ti ng was somehow sensi ti ve and not 3 something to be sha red with the pub li c . 4 that right? Do I have 5 A. You do . 6 Q. And so how do you square those two things 7 together? 8 secre t? 9 10 11 12 Did yo u th i nk that the meeting was A. I didn 't think that the meet i ng was secret . Q. Did you t h i nk t he conten t o f the mee ti ng was somehow secre t ? 13 A. No t secret . 14 Q. Was t he conten t of the mee ti ng , as you 15 expected it before it o ccurred , was the content 16 something that you shared with anyone else? No. 17 A. 18 Q. Why no t ? 19 A. Because other than -- first o f a l l , I 20 didn 't have con t ent . Th a t was my whole thing. 21 had been ask ing and pushing if it cou l d be 22 elaborated on . I What I had was basically basic, 23 very basic i n f ormat i on t o set up a mee ting, so it 24 wasn 't t hat I had information to say t o somebody, 25 o h , hey , l o ok , there are these d o cuments . I 90 1 didn't have anything . Even if I had wanted to, I 2 didn 't have anything to share . 3 Q. Before the meeting occ urred, had you 4 heard of the Magni tsky Act ? 5 A. No. 6 Q. So that wasn 't something that Emin had 7 mentioned . 8 A. No. 9 Q. Did he ever mention sanctions t o you? 10 A. No . 11 Q. Did he ever men tion the topic of 12 adoptions? 13 A . No . 14 Q. And so when was th e first time th a t 15 had heard about the Magnitsky Act? you Was it a t the 16 June 9th meeting? 17 A. At the June 9th mee ting. 18 Q. And lik ewis e for adoptions? 19 A. We ll, I've heard o f adoptions . 20 Q. Sure . 21 A. But as it relates t o this. And ac tu a lly, 22 probably after that , because I still didn ' t 23 underst and how -- because th a t was why , when I 24 called Emi n , I said , I just sat in a meeting about 25 adoption . And he seemed as shocked as I was and 91 1 went , ado pt i o n? 2 3 So I didn 't put t wo and t wo toge t her until after that. Q. When Emin told you that he had damaging - 4 5 - 6 and you were pushing back to identify precisely 7 what that cont e nt was , did y o u ever ask Emin why 8 he wa s so int eres t ed in pursuing t his mee ting? 9 10 or t he l awyer would have d a ma ging informa ti on , A. No . No . Q. So he just said , essentially, 11 a tt end , but never gave yo u any furt her 12 information? shut up and 13 A . Essentially, he said shut up and d o n't atte nd. 14 Q. Do n 't at t end . 15 A . Yeah, y o u d o n't have to at t end . 16 have to get the meeting. 17 You j u s t 18 19 You jus t Ike will coo rdinate . h a ve to get t he meet ing. Q. And when he said that he would coo rd i nate , what did h e mean by that? 20 A . I ke would coord i n a t e . 21 Q. I'm s o rry. 22 A . Yeah . 23 Q. And did yo u ever speak to Ik e be f ore the Ike. I misheard you . 24 June 9th meeting to discuss wha t 25 th e me e ting would be? t he content o f 92 1 A. No t the c o ntent. 2 Q. Okay, so you had made arrangements to 3 meet with him, we saw a document , at 3 : 30 4 beforehand. Yes. 5 A. 6 Q. And you described your day beforehand 7 with a few meetings at So ny Entertainment and then 8 going to the Starbucks . 9 10 A. Yep. Q. And before that Starbucks -- is Starbucks 11 where you met I ke be f ore go i ng upstairs? 12 A. No, I saw him and the three people , Ms . 13 Veselnitskaya and these two o thers , come in 14 through the door of Trump Tower, and so I came 1 5 down the escalato r and met them as they were 16 17 coming in. Q. Okay. So before meeting them at the 18 bottom of the escalator , had you had any 19 conversati o n with tho se participants in the 20 meeting about what the meeting would entail? 21 A. I had n o t. 22 Q. Did you speak to Ike Kaveladze on the 23 phone be f ore the meet i ng? 24 A. I believe that all the back - and -forth 25 abo ut the time -- but he did tell me they were 93 1 running late , so i n o rder to d o that , he wo uld ' ve 2 called me , yes. 3 Q. Do you recall, was there any conversat i o n 4 about what the meeting would be about , or was it 5 jus t logistics? A. It was logistics. 6 7 They were running late . 8 Q. And just so were clear , looking at 9 Exhibit 1 -10 A. Yes . 11 Q. -- that's da t ed June 3rd , 12 communica ti on . your Was that t he first communication 13 you had with Do nald Trump Jr . abo ut arranging this 1 4 mee ti ng? 15 A. I be lieve s o , yes . 16 Q. I think Mr . Davis asked you whether or 17 not Mr . Trump had f ollowed up by telep hone wi t h 1 8 Emin. Did Mr . Trump also ever speak to you on t he 19 telepho ne? Or were your exchanges exclusively via 20 email? 21 A. Exclus i vely via email. 22 Q. And other than the emails that Mr . Davis 23 has shown you already this morn i ng , including 24 Exhibit 1, were there any other communications 25 that yo u can recall with Mr. Trump about the June 94 1 9th meeting be f ore i t o ccurred? 2 A. No t t hat I recall , no . 3 Q. Fo r i nstance , over Wha t sApp? 4 A. Yeah , not that I recall . 5 Q. Okay . 6 And do yo u u se , f or ins t ance , Facebook Messenger or any o t her social media 7 p l at f orm t o communicate? 8 A. I do with friends , yes . 9 Q. Do you use tha t t o communica t e wi th 10 Do nald Trump Jr . ? 11 A. I don 't believe so . 12 Q. Just so we are clear , what are all the 1 3 means by wh i ch yo u have communicated with Donald 1 4 Trump Jr ., t hat you can recall? 15 A. I have def i n i tely messaged h i m o n his 16 cell phone , and I have used email . 17 Q. And obviously spoken to him on the 1 8 telephone? 19 A. I d o n ' t know the answer t o that . 20 Q. You ' re not sure -- have you ever spo ken 2 1 wi th him on the telepho ne? 22 A. I ' m not sure if I ' ve ever spoken with him 23 on t he t elephone . 24 Q. And you ' ve met him in person? 25 A. I have met him in person , yes . 95 1 Q. Be f o re the June 9th meet i ng occurred , and 2 yo u saw him a t t he meeting , in t he d a ys l eading up 3 to th a t meeting, from June 3rd when you first 4 planned it until the meeting o ccurred, had you had 5 any personal encoun ter with Don a ld Trump Jr . ? 6 A. I had no t. 7 Q. Ho w about with anyone else fr o m the Trump 8 Organization? A. I' m no t sure if I had -- the VK ema il s 9 1 0 that were referred t o , I'm no t sure if because 11 Rhon a or somebody may have been cop i ed on th a t, if 12 that counts as t hat . But outside of t hat , no . Q. And Mr. Schiller, did yo u see him at all 13 1 4 b e for e t he meeting? You mentioned seeing him 15 after the meeting. A. No , no . 16 17 I saw him before the meeting in St a rbucks, whe n I was s itti ng hav ing my co ffe e , 1 8 waiting for th ese people. He came by also , I 19 believe to get c o ffe e o r d o something . And I said 20 to him , hi , I don 't know if yo u r emember me from 2 1 Moscow . 22 Q. I was g o ing t o ask you , 23 h i m? 24 years before t hat? 25 how did yo u know The l as t you s aw him wa s from 3 years ago, 3 A. Yeah , I think we also saw him -- Emi n 96 1 p l ayed at o ne o f -- at Trump Do ra l, Doral , h o wever 2 you say it, 3 I bel i eve Kei t h was there a t PGA go l f class i c . Emin performed , and t hat t i me . And let ' s see , yeah , that ' s when I saw 4 5 h i m. So i t had been a co uple years , a f ew years , 6 wha t ever it was . He ' s quite recognizable . Q. Have you ever c o mmun i cated wi th Ke i th 7 8 o t her than running in t o him in person a t 9 couple of events? 10 Have you ever commun i cated wi th him at any other time? A. I believe I may have asked h i m -- again , 11 12 t hese I may have followed up t his about wha t was t he 1 3 pro t o c o l on del i very f o r th i ngs , as wel l as Rho na . 14 15 I could be wrong , bu t I believe I may have asked h i m o n emai l. I d o n ' t be l ieve he answered me , i f 16 17 18 Q. Bu t address? 19 20 you do have his personal ema i l A. I had his personal -- we l l , n o t personal . I had his Trump . org . 21 Q. And other than that poss i b l e 22 communication about delivering something to Trump 23 Tower 24 A. Yep . 25 Q. Can y o u reca l l any o ther times that y o u 97 1 have commun i cated wi th him via emai l ? 2 A. Since when? 3 Q. At any t i me . 4 A. Definitely during the Miss Universe 5 con t est , yes , because tha t was our po i n t o f 6 con t act kind o f f or , as I used t o ca l l it , all 7 things Trump . Where i s he? 8 will we find h i m? 9 Al l of t hat . 10 What time? Where Where do we del i ver h i m t o? Outside of t hat , no . Q. Do you have any social relationship with 11 Mr . Sch i ller? 12 A. None a t all . 13 Q. Yo u had ment i o ned arrang i ng a de l ivery o f 1 4 an item after the June 9th meeting . Was t hat a 1 5 paint i ng? 16 A. It was a painting . 17 Q. Was t here anything else wi t h tha t 1 8 painting? 19 A. There was a no te , I be l ieve . 20 Q. Di d you ever see the note? 21 A. No , because I als o d i dn 't de l iver i t 22 myself . I was -- I think I was away . 23 heading to Montreal or somewhere , and so I passed 24 i t on to Roman Beniaminov in his role as Emin ' s 25 ass i stant to take care o f it . I was 98 Q. So o ther than the no te and the paint i ng , 1 2 do you know if t here was anything else included in 3 the ma terial s that were del i v ered to Trump To wer? 4 A. I have no idea. 5 Q. Did you ever t a lk t o Roman Ben i aminov 6 about it? 7 A. Yes . 8 Q. And did you eve r have any discussion 9 about what was g o i ng t o be de li vered by h im? 10 A. Well , b oth he and I b oth knew what was 11 going to be delivered, because we had seen i mages 12 of t his thing. And o t her than t hat , no . Al l the discussions were abo ut log i stics 13 1 4 and wha t ti me this TSA-type thing closed . 15 think he missed the deadl i ne the fir s t time and 16 had to go back. 17 And I That was what the discussion was abo ut. 18 Q. And so as far as you know , it was just a 1 9 paint i ng 20 A. And a no t e . 21 Q. -- and a note? 22 A. And a birthday note . It was a birthday 23 g ift. 24 Q. Re t urning t o Exhibit 1 f or a momen t, the 25 ema i l toward the end o f your June 3rd ema i l re f ers 99 1 to g o vernment suppo rt f or Mr . Trump helped along 2 by Aras and Emin . 3 Do you kno w what was meant by " helped 4 along "? What did you intend by that? 5 A. Hindsight i s wonder ful, and what I 6 should ' ve said was Russian suppor t helped by, but 7 I say here , Russian and its government support 8 helped by . So , yo u know , what I meant wa s , t here are 9 10 people in Russia who support your dad, look, the 11 Russian Government, it i s Russia helped by Emi n 12 and Aras , who also suppor t your dad. It is a sor t 1 3 o f bad claus e . 14 Q. And other t han arrang i ng the June 9th 1 5 meeting, what form of help did thi s take? A. Emin had posted on his social media : 16 17 18 fri end Mr . Trump, vote Mr . Trump, he ' s done well . He has won in wherever he won . 19 I may als o add that we ' re v e ry 20 nonp a rtisan. 21 My A few mon t hs before th a t, we h a d an idea th at Emin had a s o ng cal l ed , " Woman ," and we 2 2 put it to images o f Hillary, and I had tho ught it 23 would be a gre a t t h i ng t o s uggest to t he Cli n t on 24 campaign , because it was a grea t song that summed 25 it up . And Emin p o sted that on h i s soc i a l me dia 100 1 as we ll. 2 So this wa s another of those things. 3 It' s just he knew Mr . Trump pers o na ll y . 4 kno w Hillary . 5 He d i dn't Q. Did the Agalarovs ever provide a ny 6 financial support to the Trump campaign that you 7 ar e awar e o f? 8 A. Not that I a m awar e of . 9 Q. Did they ever try t o ma ke a ny d o nations 1 0 t o the Trump campaign? 11 A. I h a ve no ide a . 12 Q. Did you ever make any donations to the 13 Tr ump campaign y o urs e lf? 14 A. I did not . 15 Q. Did y o u make any don a ti o n s o n beha lf o f 16 anyo ne else? 17 A. I did not. 18 Q. Did you ever facilitate any campaign 19 contributi o ns o n b e half o f anyo n e e lse? 20 A. No. 21 Q. And h o w a bout t o the Cli nton c a mpaign? 22 A. No . 23 Q. Let's move for wa rd to the meeting itself. 24 MS. SAWYER: 25 MR . PRI VOR : Can I ask a quick question? Sure . 1 01 1 2 BY MS . SAWYER : Q. So you have indic a t ed t hat yo u kept 3 pres s ing back to try t o get more info rmati o n abou t 4 the Russian lawyer 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. -- because you felt th at Don Jr. wo uld 7 8 ask f or more . A. I t hough t t hat somebody would ask . I n my 9 pr o fes s i o na l opini o n , if s o mebody h a d asked me t o 1 0 meet , I would want to know a bit more abo ut it 11 Q. And did he ever ask? 12 A. -- to legitimize it. 13 Q. Did h e eve r ask? 14 A. He didn 't. 15 BY MR . PRIVOR : 16 Q. In arranging the meeting, did Emin ever 1 7 g i ve yo u any indic a ti on a s to who should at te nd 1 8 the mee ting? 19 A . No . 20 Q. And other t han wan ting yo u to reach ou t 21 to the Trump Organiza tio n , did he specify to whom 22 you should reach ou t to at the Trump Organi zati on? 23 A. His ac tu al wo rds were to re a ch out to t he 24 Trumps , wh ich is why , a t t he end o f this , I say, 25 yo u know , I could send this to Rhona, but I wanted 1 02 1 to ru n i t past y o u . 2 I didn 't know , b eca u se I r eal ly was a bit 3 na i ve in po liti cs . 4 should go to Rhona for Mr . Trump or it shou ld go 5 to Don Jr . and let him decide where it should go . 6 7 8 I d i dn't know whe ther this So I wen t wit h t he l a tt e r. I t hough t it was t he lesser o f two evi l s . Q. I n t erms of t he persons who a tt ended on 9 behalf of the -- I will cal l them the Russians , 10 a l though you are obviously not a Russian , did Emin 11 specify who wou ld or should a tt end t hat mee ti ng on 12 his part? 13 14 15 A. No , he merely sa id that I ke wo uld coordina t e . Q. And y o u' ve i dent i f i ed the pa rticip an t s in 16 the meeting . 17 expecting to at te nd who did not a tt end? 18 A. Well , Was there anyone else that you were initially, I was jus t exp ec ti ng t he 1 9 lawyer , Ms . Vesel n itskaya , and I ke . 20 21 22 23 Q. Was t here anyone else invited who didn 't sho w up? A. No , but on the day of the meeting , I think it was a lre a d y referred to be f ore , an ema il 2 4 was sen t to me jus t sayi ng t ha t she wan t ed to 25 bring a l o n g two o ther pe o ple , o n e o f wh i ch was a 1 03 1 translat o r and one o f which was a col l eague . 2 3 Q. And did you make a ny effor t to those peop l e before the meeting? A. No . 4 5 to r each out you wa nt. I s imply said to her , bring whoever Ma ke sure t hey have ID. 6 Q. And did you have any c ommunicati ons with 7 tho se pe o ple b e f o re you met them at the bott o m o f 8 the escalator in Trump Towe r right before the 9 meeting? 10 A. I didn ' t . 11 Q. Ok ay , we a re going to ma rk o u r next 12 e xhibit, wh ich is Exhibit 1 6 . MS . SAWYER: 13 14 jus t Why d o n't we o ff the record for a second t o find this? 15 MR . PRI VOR: Sure. 16 [Off th e Reco rd] 17 MR . PRI VOR: 18 I' m handing you wha t Ba ck on t he record. has b e en marked as 1 9 Exh ibit 15 , which is a mu l t ip age d o cument , I t hink it goes t hrough 245 -- 240 . 20 RG000236. 21 [Go ldst one Exhibit 15 was ma rked f o r 22 23 24 25 id en tificati on .] BY MR. PRI VOR: Q. Tak e a momen t to l o ok t hat ove r. I would l i ke t o turn your attention to the Bat es page 24 0. 104 1 2 3 You can see in the bottom right - hand corner there a re littl e serial numbers . MR . FOSTER : Can we go off the reco rd for a 4 second? 5 [Off the Record] 6 MR. 7 BY MR . PRI VOR : 8 PRIVOR: Back on. Okay . Q. I'd like you to t ake a look at Bates page 9 240 o f Exhibit 1 5 . The first quest i on i s , do you 1 0 recognize this document . 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. What is this? 13 A. I believe it's a WhatsApp int eract i o n 1 4 b e t ween myself and Emin Agalarov . 15 Q. Okay . Very we ll. You can s ee a t the t op 16 of the page , it l ooks like Emin writing to you , 17 Rob , what ema il is everyone t a lking abo ut? 18 th e r e an email? 19 Was And then your response is , at 1 602 , do 20 you see th a t? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. And you said , after you and I spoke about 23 the lawye r and the mee ting, I ema il ed th a t request 24 to Don. 25 he wanted to know who she was and what she wanted I n order for him to consider meeting her , 105 1 to talk abo ut . 2 Do you r eca ll making th a t statement to -- 3 A . Yes. 4 Q. Mr . Agalarov? I t sounds , 5 fr om your description then, in 6 order for Donald Trump Jr . to meet with somebody, 7 8 he wanted to know who she was . Is that right? A. Wel l, that's what it sounds like , it's 9 right, yes . 10 11 12 Q. And so had you , in fact, spoken with Donald Trump Jr . abou t t he meet i ng i n advance? A. No. Wha t I' m saying here actually is 13 I am answering him about what the ema il is about 1 4 and why -- I don 't know why Emin would imagin e 15 that I wouldn ' t have ema iled Trump. Maybe he 16 thought I ' d picked up the phone and call Don Trump 17 to ge t t he meet i ng . 18 thought. I have no id ea wha t he But it's me exp lai n i ng why there was an 19 ema il, which had now become o n e o f the mo st talked 20 about emails . 21 22 Q. We ll, yo ur descr i ption to Emi n refers t o what Donald Trump Jr . wanted . How did you know 23 wha t he wan t ed? 24 A. I didn 't. 25 Q. So why did you say that here? 1 06 1 2 A. To g i ve a reason as t o why I ' d written an email . 3 Q. And s o wha t Do na l d Trump Jr . wan t ed , tha t 4 was simply something that you surmised? 5 A. I pushed Emin so many t imes beca u se I 6 said I probably would be asked , tha t 7 I just tho ught I ne e d e d t o g i ve Emi n a reas o n as to why 8 there had been an email , bu t no t just an ema i l bu t 9 a very controver s i a l emai l a s i t stood no w. And 10 my reasoning was , you know , in order for him to 11 consider meet i ng her -- I sho u ld ' ve said I knew 12 he ' d want to know who she was and wha t she was , 13 and that ' s why I pushed you , but I didn ' t say 1 4 tha t. 15 That ' s wha t I sa i d . But tha t' s what I 16 meant . 17 BY MS . SAWYER : 18 Q. So was the reali t y tha t he asked you or 1 9 was th e rea l ity that h e didn ' t , and you made that 20 up? 21 A. That Don asked me s o me t h i ng? Yeah , Do n 2 2 didn ' t ask me . 23 Q. So this wa s u n t r u e? 24 A. Looking at i t now , yes . 25 MR . PRIVOR : When you were t e st if ying -- 1 07 MS . SAWYER : 1 And when I say "thi s ," I am 2 saying t he commen t t hat you sa id, he wanted to 3 know who she was and what she wan t ed t o talk 4 about. 5 That's untrue? MR . GOLDSTONE: It is untrue in the context 6 of t his , yes . 7 8 BY MR. PRI VOR : Q. This morn ing you had testified about the 9 June 9th meeting and yo ur actua l part icipat i o n 10 during the meeting . 11 You said that you were awa iting a smoking gun at the mee ti ng , and yo u 12 were waiting to see if t here were to be any 13 14 react i o n to that? A. Yes, the smoking gun . I mean , I jus t 15 sen t s o mebody an email th at says I'm setting up a 16 meeting for someone that is going to bring you 1 7 damaging informat i on abou t somebody who wa s 18 running to become the President of t he United 1 9 States . I thought that was worthy o f the words 20 smoking gun , yes. 21 22 23 24 Q. So the s moking gun refers t o damaging information? A. Well , yes . I mean , t hat 's the basis on which I requested the mee ting . So I t hough t t here 25 might be some -- smok i ng gun might b e a bit o f a 108 1 PR ridiculous word to use , but what I was saying 2 was, I expect ed there to be something th a t would 3 mak e peop l e react, and , therefo re, there was a 4 reason to have made this request . 5 Q. So your expectation of going into the 6 meeting was that there would be a smoking gun? 7 A. Based on what I had requested, I believed 8 there would b e some " damaging informa tion," which 9 is why I had been asked to set up the meeting in 1 0 the first place . 11 Q. Throughout the course of the entire 12 meeting , did you ever hear any damaging 13 information? 14 A. Well, again , I don't know wha t would b e 15 deemed damaging , but I didn 't hear anything that I 16 would deem to be damaging . 17 And I didn ' t see anybody react in a way th at I believed people 1 8 wou ld react if they heard damaging information. 19 Q. Mr . Davis had asked you whether there was 20 anything that you would r easonably perceive as 21 being evidence of col lusion o f any sort . 22 A. Yeah . 23 Q. And I think you said you didn't hear 2 4 anything lik e that. 25 A. Yes . Is that right? I mean , I didn ' t , to the best of my 109 1 knowledge , I didn ' t 2 thought of as coll us ion. 3 hear anything that could be Q. What wou l d you have thought would 4 constitute collusion? 5 MR . GAGE : 6 MS. SAWYER : Th at ' s a b i t specula t ive . Well , your client has given his 7 opi nion that he didn ' t think there was any 8 collusion , so I think it is fair to ask him what 9 const i tutes col lusion . MR . GOLDSTONE : 10 I think I actually said I 11 didn't t h i nk I heard anything th a t migh t 1 2 perceived by me as collusion. have been I mean , maybe 13 that ' s a l o n g - winded way of saying exactly what 14 you just said . 15 MS . SAWYER : Sure . So what , i n your mind , 16 could you have heard that wou ld constitute 17 collusion? 18 MR. GAGE : I'll let you ask . 19 speculative nature of it . 20 But if you can answer . BY MS . SAWYER : 21 22 It' s just th e Q. So is it f a ir t o say t ha t you don 't know what 23 A. Wo uld cons t i t u t e collusion? 24 Q. Yes. 25 A. In its specifics , that is correct , yes . 110 1 Q. Okay . 2 A. If I heard the word , dah , d ah , dah , 3 col l uded with Ru s si a , then I would expect that 4 that was collusion . 5 anyth i ng like th a t. 6 7 But it would -- I didn ' t hear Q. So anything short of hearing th e wo rds collusion o r colluded with Russ ia would not 8 constitute collusion in yo ur mind? 9 A. Co rrect . 1 0 BY MR . PRIVOR : 11 Q. Mr . Davis had run t hrough a li t any of 1 2 various t o pics that were discussed. I wa nt to ask 13 you a little bit mo re detail on some of those . 14 A. Yes , sure . 15 Q. So you don ' t rec a l l th a t there was a ny 16 informa ti on o n Hillary Clinton , damaging 17 in f orma t ion , o f fered on her? Do I have th a t 1 8 right? 19 A. During the me eti ng? 20 Q. During the meeting . 21 A. There were there was a -- the l a dy did 22 b eg in by talking about funding t o the DNC by 23 cer t a i n people t hat wa s bene fi t i ng Hill ary 24 Clinton . 25 So t he name Hillary Clinton did c ome up . Q. And yo u had menti o n e d the Zi ff bro thers . 111 A. The Zif f brothers ' name came up , o nly 1 2 b eca use I was listening for words th a t e it her 3 j ol t ed me -- I heard names . 4 Ziff . 5 Browder I heard , and Q. Did yo u know anyt h i ng abou t t he Zi ff 6 bro t hers before this meeting? 7 A. I did not . 8 Q. How abou t 9 A. I did no t. 10 11 12 13 Browder? Q. Why did those names stick out to you as s i gni fi cant? Why do yo u rec a ll them? A. Because ou t side o f that, there weren't rea l ly any names used . And so I heard Hillary 1 4 Cl i nton , DNC, this name Ziff , and this name 15 16 17 18 Browder. Outside o f that , I couldn ' t actually recall much, if anyt h i ng at a ll, o f wha t was sa id. Q. You mentioned t he DNC. Was t he RNC ever 1 9 mentioned? 20 A. Not t o my knowledge . 21 Q. How a bout hack i ng of ema ils. 22 Davis asked you about that . 23 anyt h i ng abou t I thi nk Mr . Do you recall hack i ng o f ema il s? 24 A. I don 't recall that being mentioned . 25 Q. Was there ever any d i scuss i o n about 11 2 1 o btaining in f ormation f r o m the DNC , by hack i ng or 2 otherwise? 3 A. No t t hat I recall, no . 4 Q. Did you ever hear the name John Podesta 5 come up the mee ti ng? 6 A. I did no t. 7 Q. Was there ever any d i scuss i o n o f hacking 8 9 10 Hill a ry Cl i nton ' s ema ils? A. No t t o my knowl edge . Q. Was there ever any discussion o f securing 11 or ob t a i n i ng emails th a t belonged to Hillary 12 Clinton fro m whatever their source? 13 A. No t t o my knowl e dge . 14 Q. Wa s t h e r e e v e r a ny discussion of a ny 15 hacking o rganizati o n s ? So , for in s t ance , 16 Wikileaks? 17 A. I don 't rec a ll he a ring th a t n a me . 18 Q. DCLeaks? 19 A. I d o n't r e ca l l 20 Q. Guccif e r or Guccif e r 2 . 0? 21 A. I d o n 't recall hearing that. 22 Q. Do yo u recall any discussi o n of any news 23 le a k org a ni za ti ons? 24 A. No. 25 BY MS . SAWYER : hearing that name . 113 Q. And more broadly, was there any 1 2 discussion of Hillary Clinton ' s emails? 3 A. No , not th a t I rec a ll, at a ll. 4 Q. Any discussion of her use o f a personal 5 ema il server? 6 7 A. No. BY MR . PRIVOR : 8 Q. You had discussed , towa rd th e end of this 9 morning' s s e ss ion, VK . 10 A. Yes . 11 Q. Essent i a lly, the Russian Facebook . 12 A. Russian version of Facebook , yes . 13 Q. Okay . So I want you to take a look at 1 4 Exhibits 1 0 and 11, if you have those in front of 15 you . 16 So if you take a l ook , we will start with 17 Exh i b i t 11, wh ich is t he June 29th , 201 6 , ema il to 1 8 Dan Scavino from you. And you state t hat you are 19 foll owi ng back up o n the mention of VK to Don and 20 Paul Manafort . 21 A. Mm- hmm . 22 Q. And in sort o f the middle o f your 23 discussion, you suggest th a t you could have the VK 24 folks mock up a basic sample page . 25 that? Do you see 11 4 1 A. Mm- hmm . 2 Q. And you , 3 p ag e . i n f a ct , d i d at t a ch a sample I t is t he a t t achment , wh i ch i s p a r t of the 4 exhibit , and you can see that page . 5 And if you a lso compare t hat to Exhibi t 6 1 0 now , you wi l l see t hat one also has a mockup 7 sample page , and i t appears to b e th e exac t same 8 page , i f you we re to compar e t hem side - by- side . 9 So I' m cur i o u s , on Exh i b i t 11, when yo u 1 0 say that you had the VK f o lks mo ck up a basic 11 12 sample p a ge , wa s i t a lre a dy done back on June 8 t h? You ' re not newly doing i t on June 29 t h? A. No , I' m no t , no . 13 1 4 the way , 15 I' m no t d o i ng i t . By just to be clear , no mat t er wha t , I' m no t actua l ly do i ng an ything . But I am be i ng as ked t o 16 d o this by Konstantin , and I ' m asking him to send 17 i t. Bu t, yes . 18 Q. So Konstan t in is the one -- 19 A. Yes , yes . 20 Q. t hat a ctua lly coordin a t ed t he mockups . 21 A. Yes . 22 Q. But in terms of the timing of the mockup 23 hav i ng been prepared , i t wa s ac t ually prepared 24 earlier? 25 A. Yea h , i t loo ks l i ke that , yeah , sure . 11 5 Q. Okay, and yo u -- Mr . Davi s went thro ugh 1 2 different i ns t ances 3 A. Yes . 4 Q. -- in which you had communicated with the 5 Trumps abou t VK 6 A. Yes . 7 Q. 8 A. Yes . 9 Q. -- -- in January , aga i n in June -- and aga i n in No vember wi th Dan 10 Scavino , who is their social media director . 11 12 Did yo u ever get any response f rom them a t all 13 A. I be l ieve -- 14 Q. -- with regard to se t ting up VK? 15 A. We l l , I be l ieve Mr . Scavi no did answer 16 one of these , somewhere . 17 18 this one or i f i t ' s in a I don ' t know if it ' s in b u t there is an ema i l . Certainly, I think we provided -- where he does 1 9 answer i t . 20 They don ' t actually do it, but he does 21 answer i t . 22 again and copies me on it . 23 24 25 And , again , Konstan t in t hen ema i ls him Q. Okay, and t hat would be Exhibi t 1 3 where Konstan t in had copied you on November 5 t h . A. Yeah . 11 6 1 Q. Did you ever get any response 2 MR . GAGE: 3 MR . GOLDSTONE: Just a second to give h i m 1 3 . Thank you . 4 BY MR . PRIVOR : 5 Q. Did yo u ever get any fu r t her response 6 fro m t he Trump campaign where they expressed 7 interest i n actua l ly pursuing this? 8 A . No. 9 Q. So we know fr om yo ur te s ti mony ear lier, 10 you said you don 't think this ever happened , that 11 the 12 A. I don 't believe it did. 13 Q. But were there ever any other e ff orts 1 4 a fter November t he 5th, as reflected in Exhibit 15 15 -- I' m s o rry. Exhibit 1 3 . Were there any effo rts 16 after that November 5th email that you can recall 1 7 wh ere the Trump Organ i zat i on t r i ed t o ac tu a lly 18 f ollow t hrough on set ti ng up t he VK page? 19 A. Not that I know about . 20 Q. During the mee ti ng , was t here ever an y -- 21 MS . SAWYER : Can I just ask? 22 MR . PRIVOR : Go ahead . 23 BY MS. SAWYER : 24 Q. Do you have Exhibit 11 there? 25 A. Yes . 11 7 Q. I n about the third paragraph down , 1 there 2 i s a sentence th a t says , at the time, 3 sa id he wou l d welcome it, and so I had t he VK 4 f o lks mock up a basic sample page . 5 Paul had And yo u' ve a lre ady expla i ned it i s the 6 same page that you had a lready as of June 8 t h . So 7 did you have a conversation wi th Mr . Manafort 8 b e for e June 8 t h about the VK page? A. I did no t. 9 Q. So what is the reference there to him 10 11 we lcoming it and t hen you directing VK t o mock up 12 a page? 13 A. So it ' s -- the re f erence to Paul Mana f ort 1 4 i s s i mply , as I s t a t ed before , t hat on my way out 1 5 o f t he meet i ng , because I' d never met this man 16 before , but I did know he was the campaign 17 cha i rman , I thought he wo ul d be a pre t ty good 1 8 person t o ask , you know , I have a frie nd at VK 1 9 that has th i s in f ormation , blah , blah , blah . And 20 a t t he ti me , I said , you know , we can mock up 21 something, and here it i s . 22 There was on ly ever this thing mocked up, 23 as f a r as I know . 24 VK . I didn ' t make any request o f I just had a very eag e r fri end in Moscow that 25 was desperate to make a l i ttle bit o f a name f or 11 8 1 himse lf by saying , I have a f riend that can get me 2 to t he Tr umps , and , look , there it is , t hey ' ve 3 made a page . So I j ust kept on and on with his 4 5 req u ests . 6 to me . I was jus t t rying to help out a f riend . And s o , that is the reference t o Pau l 7 8 Manafor t. 9 i t. 10 11 12 13 Bu t again , i t was o f no real interes t I t was the only ti me I ever mentioned Q. So you didn ' t have the VK folks mock up this? A. No , I absolu t ely didn 't. inasmuch as we had i t a l ready . 1 4 already done t his . 15 I had -- we l l , Konstantin had And anyt hing t hat was done fr om VK was j us t stuf f t hat e i ther he sen t 16 directly to them or he copied me on . 17 18 BY MR . PRI VOR : Q. Back to t he June 9t h mee t ing i t se l f , Mr . 1 9 Davi s had asked you whether Ms . Veselnitskaya had 20 brought any doc umen t s with her , and you men ti oned 21 tha t she had a statemen t 22 reading . 23 her bring i ng wi t h her , other t han tha t statemen t ? 24 f rom which she was Was there anything else that you recall A. I mean , she had her purse . 25 wel l as that , she had ano ther bag . I t hink as No . 119 1 2 Q. Do you recal l her carrying a plastic f o ld e r o f any kind wit h documents in it? A. No t specifica ll y , but she de finit e l y , as 3 4 I say, was reading from a document . 5 wa s cont a ined i n a pl as tic folder, I' m no t 6 certain . Q. Did you see if a nyone else bro ught a ny 7 8 Whether that documents wit h t hem? A. I d i dn 't. 9 I don 't rec a ll anybody having 1 0 any , but I didn ' t -- I co uldn' t b e 1 00 percent 11 cert a in. 12 Q. I n your o rigi na l ema il s etting up the 1 3 meeting , which i s Exh ibit 1 , when you re fe rred t o 14 t he documents , o r documents and info rma ti on t ha t 15 wo uld incrimin a t e Hill a r y , d i d anyone a t the 1 6 meeting ever ask anything along the li nes of , you 17 know , hey , Rob , you sent an ema il t ha t promised us 1 8 d o cume n t s and info rma ti on . 19 A. They did not . 20 Q. Okay . Whe r e i s it? So you never got any pushback from 21 Don a l d Trump Jr. ask ing , where i s t he informa tion 22 that you promised? No. 23 A. 24 Q. And how abou t anyone e l s e o th e r th an Don 25 Jr . ? 120 1 A. No . 2 Q. Not Mr . Mana fort? 3 A. No . 4 Q. Mr . Kushner? 5 A. No. 6 Q. Did they ask any questions? 7 8 Start with Donald Trump Jr . A. Th ey didn 't ask questions. Th ey 9 interrupted. 10 11 12 Q. And did they ever ask for any assistance? Did Donald Trump Jr. ever ask for any ass ist ance from Ms . Veselni tskaya? 13 A . No . 14 Q. Did he ask for any ass ist ance from the 15 Ru ss i an Government? 16 A. Not that I heard . 17 Q. Or fro m any other Russians? 18 A. Not that I 19 Q. Same quest i o n as to Mr . Mana f o rt . heard . Did he 20 make any -- did he ask any questions? 21 A. No . 22 Q. And how about Mr . Kushner? 23 any questions , other th an you mentioned he asked - 24 25 Did he ask A. No . 121 Ms . Veselnitskaya to start over? 1 Q. 2 A. No. 3 Q. Other th an that, he didn 't ask for 4 -- anything? 5 A. Not t hat I recall here . 6 Q. Was t here any discussion about any 7 possible i nformat i o n that might be provided in the 8 futur e ? A. I didn 't hear th at . 9 Q. Was there any discussion about setting up 10 11 a second meet ing in the futu re? 12 13 A. At the time o f that meeting , you 're ask i ng me? 14 Q. Yes. 15 A. There was no t. 16 Q. You stated , when you left the meeting , 17 th a t yo u were speak ing t o Donald Tr ump Jr ., and 18 Pau l Manafort was right n ext to you . I s t hat 1 9 r i ght? 20 A. He was i n front of us. 21 Q. I n fr o nt o f yo u. 22 Di d yo u have any conversation with Mr . Manafort at that time? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. What did Mr . Mana f or t say? 25 A. He -- we l l , h e didn't. I simp l y said , 1 22 1 o h , by the way , I have a f r i e nd who works i n 2 ma r ke ti ng i n VK i n Ru ss i a who wan t s t o se t up a 3 pag e f o r Mr. Trump . Wo ul d t ha t b e i n t e r es ti ng? 4 And who wou l d he speak to? 5 sho ul d spe a k t o Dan Sca v i no . 6 7 And he goes , yes , he Q. And o t he r t han t he di scuss i on o f VK , was th e r e a n y f urther d i scuss i o n with Mr . Mana f ort? 8 A. The r e was no t. 9 Q. Ho w abo ut wit h Dona l d Trump Jr. ? Was 1 0 there any f urther d i scuss i on b eyond the VK 11 di sc u ss i on? 12 A. Yes . 13 to apolog iz e . I sa id t o h i m, Don , I r ea ll y wan t Th i s was hugely embarrassi ng . I 1 4 have no i dea wha t t h i s mee ti ng was ac tu a ll y about. 15 And he sa i d , don 't wo rr y . Yo u kno w, we 1 6 have so many meet i ngs , and we go from one to the 1 7 o t her . And I a p p r ec i a t e yo u r fri endsh ip, a nd 1 8 wha t eve r he sa i d . Thank 1 9 said thank yo u or goodbye . I d on 't know if he It was that k i nd o f 20 t h i ng . 21 22 Q. Yo u men ti o ned a ft e r t h e me eti ng havi ng a c a ll wi th Emin 23 A. Yes . 24 Q. -- Aga l a r ov . Di d you a l so speak t o I ke 25 Kavelad z e by t e l e phone a f t e r the me et i ng? 123 1 A. Probab ly. 2 Q. Do you recall wha t 3 A . No . 4 Q. Did you have any other conversation with 5 your conversation was? h im a fter the meeting , in the immedi a te time a fter 6 th e mee ting, th a t day? 7 A. I -- I believe I wou ld've spoken to him 8 by phone later t hat day , in a sor t of angered 9 st at e . 10 11 Q. Do you recall anything fr om that conversation? 12 A. I don 't. 13 Q. Okay . 14 MR . PRIVOR : I think our time is up , and 15 we wi l l go off the record a t 11:59. 16 [ Recess 11 : 59 a . m. to 1 2 : 09 p . m.] 17 MR . DAVIS : We 'l l go back on the record 1 8 a t 12: 09 . 19 Mr . Go ldstone , I wou ld like t o take a 20 l ook at an ema il exchange that is Bates s t amped 21 RG000085 , a l o ng wit h a doc ument Bates s t amped SJC- 22 KAV00027 . 23 [Gol dst one Exhibit 16 wa s marked for These wi ll collectively be Exhibit 16 . 24 25 BY MR . DAVIS : identification .] 12 4 1 Q. The f irst i s an email exchange between 2 yo u and Mr . Kave ladze . 3 file th a t is no t shown. Th a t exchange has an imag e The seco nd document i s 4 the image fil e fr om that emai l exchange , as 5 produced by Mr . Kaveladze ' s a tt orneys . 6 7 On June 14t h , 20 1 6 , you wro te to Mr . Kaveladze , stat i ng , " Top story right now seems 8 eeri ly we ird , bas ed o n our Trump meeting l as t week 9 wit h the Russ i an l awyers , e t ce t era ," inc l uding an 1 0 image of a CNN story that is titled, " Russian 11 hackers s t ole Dems ' Trump fil es , fir m says ." 12 Kave l adze replied , " Very interesting ." 13 What abo ut the hacking story seemed 1 4 eeri ly we ird in li ght of t he June 9t h mee ti ng? 15 A. I was wa tc hing CNN, and up f l ashed a 16 headline that basically had the words Russian and 17 DNC in it. 18 f ound eeri l y weird was t ha t I had se t up a mee ti ng Th a t's wha t interested me . And wha t I 1 9 wi th Do n Jr . about , a l leged l y , Russ i ans and 20 i nforma ti on and damaging information and t he DNC . 21 22 23 So it wasn ' t specifica l ly a bout hack i ng . It was the f act that it was about Russians and Democra t s . Th a t i s wha t I f o und eerily we ird . 24 Q. Di d you a l so discuss t his news wit h Emin? 25 A. I b e l ieve I did . 125 1 2 Q. Do you recal l the content o f that conversation? 3 A. No . 4 Q. I would like to ask you about your 5 efforts to arrange a second mee ti ng wit h Ms. 6 Veselni t skaya and Trump associa t es a ft er t he 7 e l ect i o n i n November 2 016. 8 r eq uest for anoth e r mee ti ng? 9 Who initiated this A. I be liev e it was Mr . Kaveladze . 10 Q. And what was your invo lvement? 11 A. I wa s asked once aga in if I wo ul d contact 12 -- I don 't know if, a t t hat time, it was t he Trump 13 campa i gn or the trans i t i o n team . 1 4 the timing of it. I can ' t remember Because t he same Russian 15 a tt orney was go i ng t o be i n New York and had 16 something she wanted to present or discuss with 17 18 them. MR . DAVIS: Let's take a look a t t he email 1 9 Bates stamped RG0001 82 , a l o ng wi th i ts attachment , 20 wh i ch i s stamped 1 83 t hrough 1 85 . Th ese 21 collectiv ely wi ll be Exhibit 1 7 . 22 [Goldstone Exhibit 17 was marked for 23 24 id en tific a ti on .] MR . DAVIS: We will look over a fe w emails 25 be f ore I ask you some quest i o ns, b ut i n this 1 26 1 ema i l , dated No vember 23rd , 2016 , Mr . Kaveladze 2 wri t es you , s t a ti ng , 3 " Hello , Rob . find syno ps i s o f the t o pic Ms . Nata li a wants t o 4 discuss with T people . 5 Enclosed please She has arrived int o NYC ." Now I wo uld like to t ake a look at the 6 email exchange Ba t es stamped RG000 1 86 , which will 7 be Exhibit 1 8 . 8 [Golds ton e Exhibi t 1 8 was marked for 9 10 i dentification .] MR . DAVIS : In this email exchange , it 11 a ppe a rs th a t you wro te back , stat i ng , 12 skimmed it ove r, isn't t his exactly wha t she 1 3 presented at the l ast meeting? " 1 4 Kaveladze r epl i ed , 15 16 17 18 19 talked abo ut a t 22 To which Mr . " Yes , pret t y close to wha t she first meeting." Now I would like to l ook at another f ollow-up ema il, wh i ch i s Bates s t amped RG000 1 89 . It will be Exhibit 1 9 . [Go ldstone Exhibit 1 9 was marked f o r 20 21 " Having id en tifi ca ti on .] BY MR . DAVI S : Q. In this email , you wrote to Mr . 23 Kaveladze , stat i ng , in p a rt, "I am sure you 24 understand I have to first submit this and t hen 25 speak to Do n and Rhona, and then wa i t to see if 12 7 1 they want to have a me eti ng ." 2 Mr . Goldstone , did yo u commun i ca t e with 3 Mr . Trump Jr. about this proposed s econd meet i ng? 4 A. I believe I communicated with Rhona , and 5 I' m not s u re if I communica t ed with Mr . Trump Jr. 6 Q. Okay . 7 MR . DAVI S : 8 Let ' s take a l ook at an ema i l from you t o Rhon a on t he sub j ec t. 9 Ba te s s t amped RG000246. This will be And thi s will be Exhibit 1 0 20 . 11 [Goldstone Exhibi t 2 0 was marked f or 12 13 14 15 identification.] BY MR. DAVIS : Q. I n this ema il, the oldes t ema il in this exchange i s fr om yo u t o Rho na Gra ff o n November 16 28th , 2016. 17 You wrote , " Hi , Rhona . Aras Agalarov has as ked me t o pass on this document in t he hope 1 8 it can b e passed on to t he appropriate t eam . If 1 9 needed , a lawyer representing the case i s in New 20 York curren tly and happy t o mee t wit h any member 21 o f his tr an sition te am ." 22 Was yo ur understanding that Mr . 23 Kaveladze ' s o utre ach t o you was on behal f o f Aras 2 4 Agalarov? 25 A. I t was . 12 8 1 2 Q. Sett i ng as id e the July 27th email change t ha t i s a t t he top o f t h i s one , d i d Ms . Graff 3 o therwis e re spond to yo ur ema il? 4 5 A. I believe not . MR . DAVIS: Okay, I wo uld like to now 6 have you review t he exchange t ha t i s Bates s t amped 7 RG0001 95 through 1 96 , which will be Exhib i t 21. 8 These a r e messages i n November between you and Mr . 9 Kave l adze . 10 [Goldstone Exhibit 21 was marked for 11 12 13 14 identifica ti on .] BY MR . DAVI S : Q. And j ust to clarif y , is i t correct that t hese a r e messages i n November 201 6 between you 15 and Mr. Kave l adze? 16 A. It does appear so , yes . 17 Q. And wha t program wa s this? What 1 8 messag ing program? 19 A. Yea h , I' m l ook ing . Oh , i t ' s AI M, wh i ch 20 it' s some t h i ng -- I don 't know , some t h ing 2 1 me s senger , it s t ands f o r. 22 Q. According to the document , on November 23 27th , 2 01 6 , Kave l a d ze messaged t o you , stating , 24 " The l awyer woman called aga in ask ing abou t t he 25 me et ing wi th T peop l e . I beli eve that meet ing on 1 29 1 lawyer or ass i stant level wi l l be su ff icient . 2 Sorry to b ot her you with t his on Sunday ." 3 Yo u responded, a l so on November 27 t h , 4 2 016 , 5 " I forwarded it last week but no response . If I' m be i ng honest , I do ub t t hey will meet her , 6 as it's exactly the same as they me t 7 didn ' t last time and find it part i cularl y interesting o r use f ul , 8 acco rding to Do n Jr. at the time . Also , she needs 9 to under s t and that t hey are in tr ans ition mode and 1 0 so have a million things on their minds , and I 11 f eel t h i s won 't be one o f them. 12 and see if t hey react." 13 But let's wa it So in yo ur November 27th message to Mr . 1 4 Kaveladze , you said you for wa rd ed the i nforma ti on 15 l as t week . The l as t ema il was an ema il s ent on 16 November 28th , the day after this message with 17 18 Kaveladze , f orwarding the document t o Ms . Gr a ff. Had you , in fact, for wa rd ed t he document 1 9 the week befo re your No vember 27th message with 20 Kaveladze? 21 A. I d o n 't recall, bu t because I know 22 myself , and I know how I write , I would imagine 23 th a t t he minute he reminded me o f it i n here , I 24 f orwarded it t o Rhona, probably the nex t day . 25 I don ' t recal l one befo re then , no . So 1 30 Q. Al l 1 2 right . Pr i o r t o sending that emai l to Ms . Graff on November 28 t h , 201 6 , d i d you speak 3 wi th Ms . Graff or any o t her Trump assoc i a t es abou t 4 a second meeting with Veselnitskaya? 5 A. I don 't believe so . 6 Q. Back to t he exhibi t, in a message you 7 sent t o Mr . Kaveladze o n No vember 28th , 2016 , you 8 wro t e , 9 "I lef t nothing . 10 11 Rhona another message bu t heard I don ' t think we wi l l ." How many times did you contact or attempt to contac t Ms . Gra ff abou t t h i s? 12 A. I believe none . 13 Q. Yo u said you bel i eve none , is that r i ght? 14 A. Except for the email exchange t hat you 15 16 17 have . Q. Okay . Do you recall speaking with her on the phone or leav i ng her any vo i cemails? 18 A. No . 19 Q. Okay . Why did you g i ve the impression to 20 Mr . Kaveladze tha t you were pursuing t he second 2 1 mee t ing more vigo r o us l y than i t appears you 22 23 24 actually were? A. Beca u se I was hoping tha t he would be smart enough t o realize my view on asking f or a 25 second meet i ng . 131 1 Q. And what was your view? 2 A. That it was a ridiculous r eq uest and one 3 that I would fight e v erything in me not to have to 4 request . 5 Q. As f ar as you know , did Ms . Vese lnitsk aya 6 ever speak with anyone on the Trump transition 7 team after the election? 8 A. I have no id ea . 9 Q. Do you know if she ever spoke with anyone 10 fr om the Trump Organization after the election? 11 A. I don 't know . 12 Q. With anyone in the Trump administration? 13 A. I don ' t know . 14 MR. DAVIS : Now I would lik e to move on to 15 what happened when the June 9th , 2016 , meeting 16 became a topic o f interest in 2017 . 17 Let's take a look at the document Ba tes stamped RG000227 , wh ich 1 8 will be Exhibit 22. 19 [Go ldstone Exhibit 22 was marked f or 20 21 22 23 id en tific a tion.] BY MR . DAVI S : Q. This is a series of messages between you and Mr. Kaveladze , is th a t correct? 24 A. That ' s correct . 25 Q. According to this document , on June 3rd, 1 32 1 2017 , you messaged Mr . Kave l adze , stating , i n 2 par t, " When you get a minute , can you please call 3 me? I just had an i n t erest i ng ca l l re : that 4 meeting we attended at Trump Tower last year ." 5 6 7 8 Wi t h whom did you have tha t call? A. I believe it was a voicemail I received f r o m a man named Alan Garten . Q. And is i t correc t t hat he is an at t orney 9 wi th t he Trump Organiza t ion? 10 A. I understand that to be correct . 11 Q. Can yo u please descr i be t he conten t s o f 12 tha t conversa t ion or voicemail in as much detail 13 as yo u remember? 14 15 A. As I remember , it was just , could I g i ve h i m a cal l t o d i scuss a mee t ing tha t was he l d a t 16 Trump Tower? 17 Q. Okay . Eleven minu t es a ft er yo u r message , 1 8 Kaveladze responds , " Na t alia Veselnitskaya , I 1 9 bel i eve that was her name ." 20 Di d you have a call wit h Mr . Kaveladze 2 1 between your message asking h i m to ca l l you and 22 his message stating Ms . Veselnitskaya ' s name? 23 A. I don 't recall the call , b u t I 24 when I looked at this , i t seems t o be t he obvious answer , 25 because I couldn ' t remember her name . 1 33 1 Q. Okay. 2 A. I definitely asked him a t some po int wha t 3 her name was , yes . 4 5 Did you ask him what h er name was? Q. Okay, I would like to have you l ook at a ser ies o f exhibits, and then as k yo u a fe w 6 questions . A. Sure . 7 MR . DAVIS: 8 Th e first will b e an email 9 Ba te s s t amped RG000090, which will be Exhibit 23. 10 [Go ldst one Ex h ibit 23 was marked f o r 11 id en tific a ti on .] 12 13 MR . DAVI S : 26t h, 2017 , This is an email sent on Jun e f r o m Alan Garten t o you . As we 1 4 s t a t ed , he is an at tor ne y f o r the Trump 15 Organ iz a ti o n. 16 is well . 17 tomorrow. And he wri t es , "Hey, Rob. Hope a ll Was wonde ring if yo u were fre e t o talk Let me know wha t wor ks f or you . Bes t, 1 8 Alan." 19 No w I wo uld l ike to l o ok at the exchang e 20 Bates s t a mp ed RG0000 91, which will be Exhibit 24 . 21 [Go ldst one Ex h ibit 24 was ma rked f o r 22 23 24 id en tifi ca ti on .] MR . DAVI S : The fi rst e ma il chronolog i cally is fr om you t o Alan Gar t en on Ju n e 27 t h , 20 1 7 , 25 which states , in part , " Here i s the contact 134 1 information for Ike Kaveladze , who als o attended 2 the meeting on behalf of Aras Agalarov ." Next, I wo uld li ke to l o ok at the 3 4 exchange Bates stamped RG00009 2 , which will be 5 Exhibit 25. 6 [Goldstone Exhibit 25 was marked for 7 identification.] MR . DAVIS : 8 This is an email exchange 9 between you and Emin on June 27th , 20 1 7 . 10 write , You "T hat meeting I set up in October with 11 Trump camp a i gn for your f ather for that Russian 12 attorney and her colleagues is causing massive 13 pro blems. I have today be e n int e rvi e we d by 1 4 attorneys for the second time about it. They're 15 concerned because it links Do n Jr. t o o fficial s 16 from Russia , which he has always denied meeting. 17 I did say a t the time this wa s an aw ful idea and a 1 8 terrible meeting. They 're speaking with I ke , I 19 beli e v e , als o today . 20 And potentially, it may go further, and we may need attorneys . It's really 2 1 potentially a s eri o u s s ituation , s o you and your 22 father should be aware. 23 sure who t hese Russi a n people were , but hope full y 24 Ike can answer for them. 25 kno w. I don 't even know for I've told them what I I'm r e ally not happy being put in a 1 35 1 s i tuation wi th Federa l att o rneys invest i gat ing , et 2 cetera ." 3 BY MR . 4 5 6 DA V IS : Q. You mentioned a meeting in October . Was that -- wha t was t hat in reference t o? A. The fact that I' m now 57 and demented. 7 mean the June meeting. 8 Q. All right. 9 A. Wi th respect. 10 Q. When you wrote that you had been 11 interviewed by at t orneys t hat day f or the second 12 time abou t it, was t hat a reference to interviews 1 3 wi th Trump Jr. or Trump Organizat i o n att o rneys? 14 A. Alan Gar t en , and then Alan Gar t en and 15 Al an Futerfas, I be lieve , was o n the second cal l. 16 17 18 Q. Okay . Can you please describe the calls you had wit h t hose individuals? A. They called and asked me if I could help 1 9 them understand my reco l lection o f the meet i ng , 20 wh i ch I did . 21 22 Q. And were both ca lls related t o your recollection of the meeting? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Okay . 25 How did you describe t he meeting to them in those ca l ls? I 1 36 1 A. I described i t as a -- that i t appeared 2 to me to have been a bait and swit ch of somebody 3 who appeared t o be l o bbying for wha t I now 4 understood to be the Magnitsky Act , and probably 5 thought she wo uldn't be ab le t o get a mee ti ng 6 under that guise , and , t here f ore , had dangled the 7 idea o f havi ng some damaging i nformat i o n on 8 Hillary, which she may or may not have had , but it 9 didn't appear to me as if anythi ng had come o ut o f 10 it at the meeting. 11 Q. Okay. 12 MR . DAVIS: Let's turn to a series o f 1 3 messag es b etwe e n you and Emin. 14 s t amped RG000228 to 240 . Th ese are Bates I know some of t hese 15 ove rlapped wi th Mr . Privor 's exhibit s , bu t we will 16 introduce some this way for sake of convenience in 17 this line o f questioning. 18 26. 19 [Goldstone Exhibit 26 was mark e d f or 20 21 22 This will be Exhibit identification.] BY MR . DAVIS : Q. Unfortunately, the way these were 23 provided t o us, the dates a re not shown on most o f 24 the messages , so I migh t need some clarity from 25 you o n those . 1 37 But l et ' s please look at page 228 to 1 2 begin. 3 A. 228 , yeah . 4 Q. You write to Emin , "I made sure I kept 5 you and your f a t her out o f t he story and t hey j u s t 6 used my word ' acquain t ance . ' The lawyers accep t ed 7 we were j ust acquaintances but te l l me the media 8 i s keen to know who set up t he meeting ." Wh ic h l awyers are yo u referencing i n that 9 10 comment? 11 A. I believe , aga in, it' s a mi s u se o f a 12 word , and it means either the wri t ers or t he media 13 accepted we were just acqua i ntances . 14 no l awyers at th a t point. 15 Q. Okay . There were Do yo u recall when thi s me s sage 16 exchange o ccurred? 17 18 A. I believe it was July 9 or July 1 0 , and I' m sure we can probably confirm t hat f or you . 19 Q. We would appreciate that . 20 21 Why did you keep Emin and Aras out of t he s t o ry? 22 A. They hadn 't been menti oned to me at that 23 s t ag e. This wa s, I believe, a fter I had been 24 contacted by a journalist, and I just felt I was 25 doing the r i ght thing in trying to protect my 1 38 1 clients. 2 the end of it, t here mi gh t be some -- but I didn 't 3 realize it wo uld blow up i n t o the type of s t o ry it 4 did. Q. When you spoke wit h t he Tr ump at t orneys , 5 6 I naively maybe tho ught that might be did you describe Emin and Aras ' involvement -- 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. 9 i n se tti ng up the mee ti ng? Okay . To the best of your knowl edge , when yo u 10 spoke with the Trump attorneys , did they have a 11 copy o f your email t o Trump Jr. set ti ng up t he 12 mee ti ng , which referenced Aras and Emin's 13 involvement? 14 A. I don't know . 15 Q. They didn't ask yo u abou t the email at 16 that time? 17 A. They asked prima rily abo ut the mee ti ng . 18 Q. Did t hey ask a t a ll abou t 19 A. I d o n't know , but i t seems l i kely they 20 would ' ve . 21 t he e mai l? I don't know i s t he answer . Q. No w if you could please tur n to RG00023 1 22 in this exhibit , it appears that you messaged 23 Emin , " Just got o ff phone wit h Tr ump lawyers and 2 4 they wou l d lik e us to have a blanket ' no comment' 25 f or now . Washingt o n Po st was leaked i nfo r mat i o n 1 39 1 that I organized meet ing and has r u n the piece , so 2 now every media outlet is calling." 3 Just for clarity, wh ic h Trump a tt o rneys, 4 which Trump lawyers -5 A. I believe it wa s Al an -- it wa s still 6 Al an Ga rten a t t his s t age . 7 Q. And what was the content o f that cal l, to 8 the b es t of yo ur memory? 9 A. I don 't know if he c a lled me o r I called 1 0 him , but at that point , I didn't have any 11 a tt orneys or a n ywh ere to turn. So probably, I put 12 in a call to him to ask wha t was going on , as he ' s 13 the o nly person that I'd spoken to in the past 14 a bout this possibly b e ing l eaked, or story . And 15 he just sa id a t the time th a t he'd prefer if I had 16 a "no c o mment" t o all these calls that I was 1 7 get ti ng . 18 Q. Do you recall when that conversation 1 9 occurred, the date? 20 I d o n't know if i t shows . A. I ma y, if I look in order . I beli eve it 2 1 was July 1 0 th. 22 Q. And did yo u -- did he explain his 23 re a soning why they wan ted to blanke t 24 policy fr om you? 25 "no comment" A. I' m not sure , b ut if he did, I didn't 1 40 1 mention it. 2 3 MR . DAVIS: All right, now I would like to l oo k at another email exchange. This i s Bates 4 stamped SJC- KAV00132 to 133, and this will be 5 Exhibit 27. 6 [Goldstone Exhibit 27 was marked for 7 identification.] 8 BY MR . DAVIS : 9 Q. Thi s is a chain of ema ils on July 9th 10 and/or 10th. The different dates may be due to 11 different time zones o f the senders, I believe . 12 The first email chronologically is fro m 13 you to Alan Garten , copying Mr . Kaveladze . It 1 4 s t a t es , in part, " Alan , I am in Europe and 15 received a barrage of media cal l s yesterday , 16 including Washington Post saying my name was 17 listed on the o ffi c i a l statement put ou t Sa turd ay 1 8 by lawyers. I had requested last week o f you guys 1 9 to see what was being put out , so I would be ab l e 20 to prepare our own statemen t but never received 21 anyth i ng from you o r yo ur colleague. 22 at least now see the statement you guys put out? " 23 24 25 Can I plea s e Why did you wan t to see Trump Jr .' s s t a t ement prior to dra fti ng your own? A. I just f elt i t would be use f ul if I knew 1 41 1 what they had put o ut , the style , the type . 2 -- t his a rea was really a li en to me . 3 pub li cist . This I'm a music We talk about ego s and no nsense . I'm 4 not used to this kind of structured world . Q. All right. 5 Mr. Ga rten responded , 6 including the statement that Mr . Trump Jr. had put 7 o ut , which , amo ng o ther things , claims that he had 8 not b een told the name of the woman he would be 9 meeting prior to the meet i ng its e lf and that there 1 0 was no further contact or f o llow-up of any kind . 11 Th a t email also adds Mr . Alan Futerfas . You re sponded , stating , 12 "T hank you . 13 Washingt o n Po st called yesterday and said they 1 4 were running with informa tion th a t I had set up 15 the meeting and h ad incorrect sp in on it, which I 16 tried briefly to correct . I said only that the 1 7 mee ti ng a ppe a red t o have been about adoption 1 8 issues and was quickly t erminated . I did not 19 reveal who had requested the meeting or any o ther 20 details . 21 They are only ones I've spoken with, but I do think a generic st a tement may be needed from 2 2 me or Emin at some point , as I had mentioned last 23 week ." 24 Had Mr . Trump Jr. ' s attorneys asked you 25 not to reveal who had requested the meeting? 1 42 1 A. No . 2 Q. Wh y did you no t e th a t i n your s t a t emen t 3 to them? A. I don ' t know why. 4 Yeah , I d on ' t know 5 wh y . 6 7 8 I n re spons e, Mr . Futerfas wr o te, " Agreed . Q. But you can see that eve n your help f ul quote was no t clearly s t a t e d by th e Wash i ng t on Post . Le t 9 Al a n G. a nd wri t e somet h ing ." MR . DAVIS : 10 11 d oc umen t. Now let's l ook at another This is Ba te s stamped SJC- KAV00053 t o 12 54 , and will b e Exhibit 28 . 13 [Go ldst one Exhibit 28 was ma rked f o r 14 15 16 id en tifi ca ti on .] BY MR . DAVI S : Q. Th i s i s an email and attachment you se nt 1 7 on July 1 0 t h , 2 01 7 , t o Emi n and Mr . Kave l a d z e. 18 Th e sub j e ct 1 i n e i s , "Here i s s t a t emen t drafted by 1 9 Trump lawyers , wh i ch they have asked me to 20 r e l ease ." 21 The a tt ac hment app e a r s to be a sc reen sho t 22 of an email fr om Mr . Futerfas to you , whi ch 23 s t a te s , 24 s t a t emen t. "Rob , please cons id er t h e f o llowing as a Please no t e that t here will always b e 25 potential f ol l o w- up quest i o n s to any statement . 1 43 1 But if y o u f eel comfo rtab l e wi th th i s statement 2 and a re comfortable saying no t hing more , at l eas t 3 for the time be i ng , that wo uld be o ur preference . 4 5 Again, any statement should be accurate as to your very bes t 6 recollection." Then the message has the draft s t a t ement 7 itself , which reads , " As the person who arranged 8 the mee ti ng , I can def i n it ely s t a t e th a t t he 9 s t a t ements I have read by Don a ld Trump Jr. a re 1 00 1 0 percent accurate . The meeting was a complete 11 wa s t e o f ti me , and Don was never t old Ms . 1 2 Vese l ni t skaya ' s name prior to th e mee ti ng . Ms . 1 3 Vesel nitskaya mostly ta l ked abo ut the Magnitsky 1 4 Act and Russ i an adoption l aws , and t he meeting 15 l as t ed 20 to 30 minute s a t most . 16 any f o ll ow-up, and noth ing ever came o f the 1 7 mee ti ng . 18 S i gned , Rober t Goldstone ." Did you ever releas e that statemen t? 19 A. No . 20 Q. Why no t? 21 A. I though t 22 Q. How so? 23 A. It wa s 24 There was never -- it was ludicr o u s . it j u s t seemed like a -- seemed lik e something I wou ld n ever writ e . 25 didn ' t s o und l ike my v o i ce . And i t it It j ust s o unded 1 44 1 l i ke an across - the -bo ard endo rsement o f Mr . Trump 2 Jr., as opposed to stating facts. 3 4 Q. Did y o u be lieve that the statement contained inaccuracies? 5 A. Not necessar il y . 6 Q. The statemen t says there was never any 7 f ol l o w- up , but y o u did c o ntact Ms. Gra ff a f ter the 8 election , forwarding Ms . Veselnitskaya ' s letter 9 and attempt i ng t o set up another meet i ng f o r her . 10 11 Did you tell Mr . Trump Jr . ' s attorneys about that f ollow-up when you spoke wi t h them? 12 A. I' m no t sure that I did . 13 Q. Okay. And as part o f that attempt in 1 4 November, refresh my memory , did you reach ou t to 1 5 Mr . Trump Jr.? 16 A. I don ' t believe I did . 17 Q. Okay. After rev iewing the dr a ft mess a ge , 1 8 did you inform Mr . Trump ' s lawyers o f the f ollow1 9 up i n Novemb e r? 20 A. I don't believe I did. 21 Q. Okay . 22 MR . FOSTER : 23 MR . GOLDSTONE: Why not? Because I' m not sure t hat 24 I can 't remember when I realized t hat that was 25 a l so c o nnect e d t o this , that I should loo k at th e 1 45 1 f ol l ow- up . It wasn ' t something that immediately 2 came t o my mi nd as , o h , yes , t here had be en a 3 fol l ow-up . I was v ery much in the moment o f what 4 was happening with this . 5 me as import an t 6 So it didn't even strike f or a f ol low-up . BY MR . DAVI S : 7 Q. And did y o u consider the later VK emails 8 to no t be a follo w-up to t hat mee ti ng? 9 you s t a t ed be f o re you considered -- 10 A. I did . 11 Q. 12 A. As an aside , yes . 13 MR . GAGE : th a t conversa ti on as an as ide. Just to be c l ear , when you say, 14 "I d i d ," you d i d no t 15 up. 16 17 MR . GOLDSTONE : MR . GAGE : 19 MR . DAVI S : 20 MR . GAGE : 22 consider it t o b e a follo w- I did not consider it to be a f ol low-up . 18 21 So the record is c l ear . Thank you f or the c l arification . Yes. BY MR . DAVI S : Q. So the Trump Jr . attorneys sent you a 23 dr a ft s t a tement on July 1 0 th, 2 01 7 . 24 25 I think Let' s return to Exhibit 26 , to page 232 . This is an excha n ge between y o u and Emin, 1 46 1 and you mentioned to Emi n , " Trump ' s lawyers 2 drafted a small s t a t ement they would like me t o 3 put o ut. 4 5 I ema iled it t o you ." Was that a reference to the statement we jus t went over? 6 A. I believe so . 7 Q. Okay . 8 That exchange shows an audio fil e . I would like t o play one of t he audio messages 9 your a tt o rneys disc l osed . I be liev e thi s 1 0 corresponds to that audio fil e , but I would lik e 11 you to veri f y th a t. 12 This audio file has t he Bat es fil e name 13 RG000251, but s i nce it i s an audio fil e , I won ' t 14 introduce it as a physical exh ibit. Technology 1 5 permitt i ng , we wi ll li s ten t o it now . 16 [Begin audio recording .] 17 MR . EMIN AGALAROV : 18 Rob , I underst and your fr ustra ti on and in no way I' m tryi ng t o downs ize 1 9 what ' s happen i ng . But as you know , as the meet i ng 20 happened t hrough Ik e and my dad , I was no t 21 invo l ved , and I was a l so aga in s t 22 possibilities . 23 comments should go t hrough t hem . 24 with I ke wha t a ll The same way right now , any Jus t th e s tr ategy should be . 25 mi nd you commenting anyth i ng . fi gure out I don 't And there ' s n o 1 47 1 pro blem f r o m my side , 2 3 as y o u understand . [ End audio recording. J BY MR . DAVI S : 4 Q. Was it your understanding -- 5 MS . SAWYER : 6 Pa t r i ck , can I jus t ask a clarifying ques ti on? 7 MR . DAVI S : 8 MS . SAWYER : Sure . The document here indicates 9 1 606 . MR . DAVIS: 10 Yes , 11 times t amp . 12 length of the message , I believe that ' s the The time on the left I believe i s the 44 . And the file I believe 13 we have is a 1-seco nd d iff erence . t he sub j ec t ma tt er , But if you loo k 14 at 15 but we can verify wit h the witness t o make sure I 16 have it right . 17 MS . SAWYER : 18 MR. DAVIS: 19 20 I believe it corresponds , Thank you . You 're welcome. BY MR . DAVIS : Q. Is it your recollection t hat that audio 21 file d o es correspond t o this message? 22 A . I ' m just checking something . 23 24 25 I believe it does . Q. So to summarize , statement , and i t you sen t Emin the draft sounded l i ke he said that you 1 48 1 should coordinate wi th I ke about any draft 2 s t a t ements . 3 fine, but you will speak wi th him when he land s And t hen you respond that I ke is 4 A. Yes . 5 Q. -- if I have it right. That's why we 6 assumed this was t hat message . 7 Now was i t your understand i ng that Emin 8 i n t his audio message was expressing t hat he had 9 been agains t setting up the June 9th meeting? A. It was my impression that he was agreeing 10 11 wit h my initial concerns t hat I made t o h i m about 12 set ti ng up t he meeting , yes . 13 Q. And when you express ed those initial 1 4 concerns , did he at th a t ti me echo t hose concerns? 15 A. He did not . 16 Q. What did you understand Emin to mean when 17 he s ays, "I was a g a inst a ll possibili ti es " ? 18 you take t hat as a reference to possible Did 1 9 ass i stance from the Russian Government to the 20 Trump campaign? 21 two ? 22 Possible coordination between t he How did you interpret that? A. The possibility of the meeting taking 23 place . 24 Q. Okay . Turning to pages 236 t hrough 239 25 o f that exh ibit, i t appears that you and Emin 1 49 1 exchange yo ur o wn draft statements . And then o n 2 the bottom of page 239 , dated July 11t h , you 3 wr o te, "I need t o retain an attorney as soo n as 4 possible. 5 Should I speak to Ik e abou t yo u r lawyers? " 6 7 This is getting out of control. Did you retain an at tor ney a t t he ti me? A. I spoke t o Ike and asked him how they 8 would like to retain lawyers for me . 9 Q. Okay . And when did yo u retain a lawyer 10 in connection with this matter? 11 MR . GAGE: Let me get you the ex a ct date. 12 MR . GOLDSTONE : I don't know t he answer . 1 3 Very s o on afterwards . 14 MR . DAVI S : 15 MR . GAGE : 16 MR . DAVIS: 17 Very soon? Very soo n, yeah . Okay, it also looks like you later ema iled your own dra ft statement t o Emin 1 8 Kaveladze on July 11t h , 2017. 19 Le t ' s l o ok at an e ma i l e xchange Bat e s 20 s t amped SJC- KAV001 44 and 1 45 . That will be 21 Exhibit 29. 22 [Goldstone Exhibit 2 9 was marked for 23 id en tific a ti on .] 2 4 BY MR . DAVI S : 25 Q. Yo ur draft stat e me nt here d o es not c l aim 1 50 1 that yo u n ever t o ld Trump Jr . Ms . Vesel nitskaya's 2 name , nor does it claim th a t t here was no follo w- 3 up. I s that correc t ? A. Can you just tell me where we are reading 4 5 fr om? 6 right? 7 We a re reading fr om t he bo tt om o f i t fi rst , Yes , I' m just a bit confused . MR . GAGE : Just give us a minute , s o he can 8 diges t it. 9 10 MR . DAVIS: Tak e yo ur time. MR . GOLDSTONE : Okay . I ' m sorry, your 11 q u est i on was? 12 13 BY MR . DAVIS: Q. Sure . Unl i ke the previ o us statement , i n 1 4 this statemen t, you don 't claim th a t you eve r -15 I'm so rry. You don 't c l a im that yo u never t o l d 16 Trump Jr . Ms . Vese lnitskaya's name beforehand, nor 1 7 do yo u claim t hat there wa sn 't any f ollow-up t o 1 8 the June 9th meeting . 19 Was that an i ntent i o nal change f r o m 20 previous draf t s? 21 22 Were t hose issu es on your mind in draf ti ng this? I should clarify . Did you feel that the 23 inclusion o f t hose statemen t s in t he previous 24 versions were inaccurate and you didn 't wan t t o 25 inc l ude them i n your own? 151 1 A. No , I wanted to give my v e rsi o n of what I 2 b e lieved as a publicist of ove r 20 years standing 3 wou l d help stop false media s pecu l ation . 4 Q. And in your draft statement , you state , 5 re f erring to your ema il on June 3rd , 20 1 6 , to Mr . 6 Trump, which set up the meeting , you state , 7 th e r e f o r e , used th e strong e st hyperbo lic languag e 8 in order to secure this request from Don a ld Trump "I, 9 Jr . ba s ed o n the bare fact s I wa s g i ven ." 10 Mr . Goldstone , in your capacity as a 11 mus i c publicist , h a ve you a t times used hyperbolic 12 language or exaggeration or hype as part of your 13 pitch? 14 A. At most times, yes . 15 Q. So if I under s tand your statement right, 16 you were saying that your email on June 3rd to Mr . 17 Trump was a n example o f this hyperbol i c 18 exaggeration type -- 19 A. It was an example of , I was give n v e ry 20 limited information, and my job was to get a 2 1 meeting, and s o I used my pr o fes s i o na l u s e of 2 2 words to emphasize what my client had only given 23 bare- bones i nformat i on abou t, in order t o get the 24 25 attention of Mr . Trump Jr. Q. When did you e v e ntually issue a public 152 1 stateme nt? 2 3 A. To th e b es t o f my knowledge , I did no t is s ue a pub li c statement. MR . DAVIS : 4 Now I would lik e to take a l ook 5 a t an email Bates stamped RG000247 , wh ich will be 6 Exhibit 30. 7 [Go ldstone Exhibit 30 was marked f o r 8 id en tific a ti on .] 9 BY MR . DAVI S : Q. This is from Anthony Scaramucci to you on 10 11 July 23rd , 201 7 . He wr ites, "I don't officially 12 start until th e 15th, Rob, but I just wan t ed to 13 dro p y o u a lin e to say, if y o u ever need t o pick 14 my brains, th en my door is always open. 15 Obvi o u s l y , there i s s till pressure on a ll s ide s , 16 but if we remain consistent and united , I don ' t 17 envisage any issues we can't ride out . " 18 19 MR. GAGE: fr o m Anthony Scaramucci . 20 21 22 23 24 25 I would add , it is purportedly MR. GOLDSTONE : I was about to say th e same thing. MR . DAVIS : Purportedly . BY MR . DAVIS : Q. Do you know -- have you ve rified whe ther this is his actual email address? 153 1 2 A. I sent this l etter immediately to my a ttorney, this ema il. 3 Q. Do you know Mr . Scaramucci? 4 A. I do not . 5 Q. Did you respond to this email? 6 A. I did not. 7 Q. Okay . And you did never verify whether 8 this was or was not ac tu a lly Mr . Scaramucci's 9 email? 10 11 A. I didn ' t feel it was f or me to verify , so I sent it to my a ttorney. 12 Q. Okay . 13 MR . FOSTER : Did you ever learn whether that 14 is his ema il address? 15 MR . GAGE : 16 MR . FOSTER : 17 18 We ll -I ' m not asking how he learned it. MR. GAGE: Yeah , I'm not -- if there were a 19 privilege log , which we haven ' t yet had time to 20 do , the To/From you ' ve got , but l e t me think about 21 that question ove r the lu nch break . 22 23 I just don ' t want -- or we can take a short break now . 24 MR. DAVIS : 25 MR . GAGE : We can come back to it. Yeah. If you want reserve 2 minutes . I 1 54 1 mean , I ' m not tryi ng to -2 MR . FOSTER : 3 MR . GAGE : 4 MR . DAVIS: That's fin e . I just need t o mak e sure yeah . I ' m going to move on to a 5 different topic then. 6 BY MR . DAVI S : 7 Q. Mr . Goldstone , we discussed br i e fly your 8 i nterac ti ons with Mr . Trump when he was in Russia 9 for the 20 1 3 Miss Univer s e Compet iti on . Yo u 1 0 mentioned him interacting with various Russian 11 people and government o ffi c i a ls. Do yo u rec a ll 1 2 wh ich governmen t o ffi cials , if any , that you saw 13 14 him interact with o n that trip? A. I don 't believe I said governmen t 1 5 o fficial s as such , bu t I defini t e l y saw h im 16 interact with high -l evel business of ficials. 17 Q. And I believe yo u men tioned a call wit h 1 8 Mr . Peskov . I s that correc t ? 19 A. That is correct . 20 Q. He is a government offici a l. 21 Is th a t correct? 22 A. He is the spokesman for Vladimir Putin . 23 Q. Ok ay . 24 So other t han h i m, do you recall any o t her interactions wi t h governmen t o ffi cials , 25 Russian Government o ff icials , by Mr . Trump? 1 55 1 A. I d o not . 2 Q. Okay . 3 There have been news repo rts a l leg i ng t hat someone fr om Emi n ' s entourage 4 attempted to send women up to Mr . Trump ' s hotel 5 room wh i le he wa s in Moscow f or this t r i p . Later , 6 the St eele dossier contains some salacious 7 a l legat i o ns , al l eging that they had gone up there 8 and various misdeeds occurred . 9 Do you have any knowl edge of Mr . Trump 10 engaging with prostitutes while on that trip? 11 A. I do not . 12 Q. Did you have any involvement in t he 13 attempts between the Trump Organization and the 1 4 Crocus Group t o conduct a real es t a t e project i n 15 16 Russia? A. I was present when the idea was floated 1 7 o f a po t ent i a l Tr ump Tower , b u t I had no 1 8 involvement . 19 Q. Did you have any knowledge o n the 20 progress of the project? 21 A. Again , I was present when Emi n told me 22 that , due to the downturn in the economy, the 23 res i den t ial projects had been p u t on hold , and 24 tha t would include Trump Tower . 25 Q. Mr . Goldstone , did Mr . Trump , his 1 56 1 assoc i ates , o r his att o rneys ever ask you to l ie 2 about anyt hing rel a t ed t o the June 9th , 2016 , 3 meeting? 4 A. They did not . 5 Q. As id e f rom med i a repor t s , do you have any 6 reason t o beli eve that Presiden t Trump or any of 7 h i s assoc i ates c o l luded , c o nspir ed , o r c o operated 8 with t he Russian Government to affect or at t emp t 9 to a ffect the 20 1 6 U.S. president i a l election? 10 A. I have no knowledge o f that , no . 11 Q. Have you spoken t o the FB I abo u t 12 the June 9t h , 20 1 6 , meeting? 13 A. I have not . 14 Q. Have you spo ken wit h anybody from Special 15 16 Counsel Mue ller' s gr o up? MR . GAGE : 1 7 q u est i on . I don ' t mind Rob answering the I just wa n t everyone in t he room, I' m 1 8 looking a t -- if t hat is a ques ti on being asked to 1 9 o thers , and in the view o f the maj o rity and the 20 minority , th a t is an appropr i ate ques ti on , I will I d o n 't know wha t t he -- as l o ng 21 let h im answer . 22 as everybody in the room , ma j ority and minority , 23 is com f or t ab le t hat th a t 24 question , I' m not going to instruct the witness 25 not to answer . Okay . i s an appropriate 157 1 2 MR . GOLDSTONE: question? 3 MR . GAGE : 4 MR . DAVIS: 5 MR . GAGE: 6 MS . SAWYER : 7 MR . GAGE : 8 Can now you j ust repeat the No , no . We 're fine with it. Okay. Yes . If you could repeat the q uestion . I' m sorry to i nterrupt . I jus t wan t to resp ec t 9 everybody ' s re spec ti v e i n t erests . 10 11 12 13 14 15 MR . DAVIS: Sure . BY MR . DAVI S : Q. Have you had any contact wit h Specia l Counsel Mue l ler ' s group? A. Meaning have I met with t hem or had any contact? 16 Q. An y contact . 17 A. I have been approached by t hem . 18 MR . GAGE : Well, I t hink t he answer is, as 1 9 you kno w, no , but o kay . 20 21 Well , you can assume -- I' m just -contact wou ld go thr o ugh a counse l. 22 MR . DAVIS: 23 MR . GAGE: Sure . And if it's i mportan t t o 2 4 everybody in t he room, we can talk abou t t hat off 25 the record or as appropriate . But that ' s why I 'm 1 58 1 sto pp i ng the witness at this p o i nt . MR . FOSTER : 2 Bu t 3 interview wit h t hem? 4 MR . GAGE : 5 MR . GOLDSTONE: 6 No , he has not . I have no t. BY MR . DAVI S : 7 8 you haven 't done an Q. Have you g i ven testimo ny abo ut the June 9t h , 201 6 , meeting t o a grand jury proceeding? 9 A. I have not . 10 Q. Other than the f o llow-up about the email 11 p u rport i ng t o be f rom Mr . Scaramucc i, th a t 12 end of my questions f or now . 13 A. Thank y o u . 14 MR . DAVI S : 15 So we will go off the r eco rd at 1 2 :52 . 16 [Recess 12 : 52 p . m. to 1 : 40 p . m.] 17 MR . PRI VOR : 18 i s the We a re back on the record . It is 1: 40 p . m. 1 9 BY MR . PRI VOR : 20 Q. Mr . Goldston e , th ank you aga in. We are 21 going to pick up -- aga i n , as I s t a t ed t h i s 22 morning , a lot o f what I am going to be asking 23 abo u t is f ollow-up t o q u est i ons Mr . Dav i s has 24 already asked . 25 A. No pro blem . 159 1 Q. So I hope you d o n't mind indulging us . 2 A. 3 Q. I would li ke to tur n your a ttenti o n t o No. 4 Exhibit 1 7 , which you had discussed before the 5 break. This i s a document t hat concerns t he 6 ef f or t s to arrange a second mee ti ng , which I 7 understand from your testimony , as far as you 8 know , never occurred. So wit h regard to Exhibi t 1 7 , I just wan t 9 10 to first ask a couple questions about the 11 document, on its f ac e. It s ays Ms . Natali a wa nts 12 to discuss wi t h T peop le, and this is an e mail 13 f rom I ke Kave l adze to you . 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Ms . Na t a li a , is th at the lawyer who was 16 at the -17 A. I wo ul d t ak e th a t t o be Na t a lia 1 8 Vese l ni t skaya . 19 Q. And the T peop l e , would that be the Trump 20 Organization? 21 A. To the bes t of my under s t and i ng . 22 Q. And to your knowledge , this meeting , any 23 effort t o establish a mee ti ng in November or 2 4 thereabouts did not occur; is that right? 25 A. To -- that ' s my understand i ng , yes . 160 1 Q. And do you know who requested that there 2 be a second meeting? 3 A. We ll, in s ubsequent texts between Mr . 4 Kaveladze and myself , he refers to Mr . A. 5 6 7 talks abo ut Mr . A, that refers to Aras Agalarov . Q. And do you know why the Agalarovs were interested in trying to arrange a meeting again? 8 A. I don 't. 9 Q. Now, 10 When he you ' v e testified a lre ady th a t you felt that the meeting didn ' t really go well . 11 You've described it as awful or terrible in a text 12 message . 13 14 Do you know whether the Agalarovs shared your view of th e first meeting? 15 A. I never got feedback fr om them. 16 Q. Did you share your view with them , 17 though? 18 A. I did , with Emin Agalarov. 19 Q. And notwithstanding your having shared 20 your views with Emin , the Agalarovs still 21 requested a s econd meeting? 22 A. They did . 23 Q. Did you give any pushback to the 24 Agalarovs the way that you did for the original 25 June meeting? 161 1 A. I tried t o convey in ema ils my lack of 2 int e r es t in it. And I think, as ema ils go on , you 3 s ee that I say, it's Th anksg iving, it' s things 4 going on , dah , dah , dah . And I do everything , I 5 believe , other th an say no to try and give Ike, 6 who he and I had worked togeth e r for quite a long 7 8 time, the impressi o n as to what I felt. Q. Do you have any sense of why it was so 9 important to the Agalarovs t o arrange a second 10 meeting? 11 A. I don 't. 12 Q. You had t es tifi ed earlier , in r esponse to 13 a quest i o n from Mr . Davis , that you didn ' t know if 14 Natali a Veselnitskaya had spoken to any of th e 15 Trumps a fter the original meeting. Do yo u know if 16 anyone else fr om that meeting had spoken to the 17 18 Trumps in regard to the June 9th mee ting? So starting with Ik e Kaveladze , do you 19 kno w if he ever had any foll o w- up? 20 A. I don 't know if he did . 21 Q. Ho w abo ut Rinat Akhmetshin? 22 A. Not to my knowledge . 23 Q. And how about the tr ans l a tor, Mr . 24 25 Samochornov? A. I have -- I have no idea. 1 62 1 Q. Do you know if there was anyone else who 2 r ep resent ed an y of t hose persons who spoke t o the 3 Trumps wi th reg a rd t o the June 9th meet i ng? 4 A. I don ' t know . 5 Q. And when I say the Trumps , I mean broadly 6 the Trump Organization . 7 A. I understand . 8 Q. And also the Trump campaign , do you know 9 if an yo ne fr om th a t group h ad reached o ut to the 1 0 Trump campaign? 11 A. I don 't know if t hey did, no . 12 Q. Very well. Let ' s take a look at Exhib i t 2 1 again , 13 1 4 wh i ch i s in front of you. 15 MR . PRI VOR: 16 o ur next exhibit . 17 We are going to mark , ac tu a lly, Mr . Davis , we , o bvi o usly, use sligh tl y di ff eren t collec ti ons o f documents e ach 1 8 time. 19 So I 'm goi ng to show you a new exh ibit, 20 Exhibit 31. Okay, so we are showing you a new 21 exh ibit, Exhibi t 31, wh i ch i s Ba te s ma rked 22 RG000191 through 1 94 . 23 a con ti nuat i on o f the document t hat had been 24 already marked as Exhibit 21. 25 pa ges precedi ng it . And this , yo u will note , is It' s just some 1 63 1 [ Go ld stone Exhibit 31 was marked f o r 2 3 id en tifi ca ti on .] BY MR . 4 5 PRI VOR : Q. Take a minute to l ook that one over and let me know if yo u recognize t hat document. 6 A . Yep . 7 Q. Al l right , turning your attent i o n t o the 8 first page o f the exhibit , 9 is t h i s exchange? 10 at Bates page 1 91, wha t I s this be t ween y o u and I ke Kavelad z e? 11 A. I t 12 Q. That is t he I ke iden tifi ed 13 A . Yes . 14 Q. -- i n t he margin? 15 A . Yes. 16 Q. Okay . 17 is. A . Yes . 19 Q. I t 20 it says , 21 22 Ye ah . On the top o f the page , an en t ry da t ed May 1 7 t h , 18 -- there is 20 1 6 . loo ks l i ke the th i rd entry there . And sending you t he Forb es a rticle. And t hat is y o ur me ssage to I ke . I s th a t right? 23 A . Yes . 24 Q. Do you recall, looking back at th e date, 25 May 17th , 2016 , what the Fo rbes art i c l e was 1 64 1 regarding Russia that is referenced there? 2 3 A. I believe t here was an article in which Forbes i n t erv i ewed bo th Emin and Aras together 4 about their relationship with the Trumps. I 5 believe that's what it was . 6 Q. Do you have a distinct memory t hat that's 7 what i t was? 9 I didn 't se t t hat up. A. No. 8 oh , it' s Forbes Russ i a . This, I t hink Yes, thi s wou ld have 10 been set up by Emin or Aras ' public relations team 11 in Russia. I vag uel y recall t hat possibly my 12 colleague, who , as I mentioned , was the director 1 3 o f publ i c i ty f o r our c o mpany , may have asked t o 1 4 see that also . We always like to keep on file 15 major pieces, and Forbes Russ i a wou ld be qu ite 16 ma j or . 17 Q. Do you recall whether yo u' ve ever sent a n 1 8 article to I ke from Forbes concerning the f ounder 1 9 o f Russian Facebo ok? 20 A. The -- when you say t he founder of 21 Russian Faceboo k , we 're talking about V Kon t akte? 22 Q. VK , V Kontakte . 23 A. Well , I don 't rec a ll it specifically, bu t 24 25 I may have done . Q. Okay. And how abo ut , d o you recal l ever 1 65 1 sending an article , a Forbes article , to Ike 2 a round t hat time concerning Rosatom , t he Russian 3 energy company? 4 A. That I don ' t recall . 5 Q. A co uple lines fu r t her down , you will 6 no te, on Novembe r 1 2th , 20 1 6 , th e r e is an ema il or 7 a text from Ike to yo u : Hi, Ro b . I'm back to the 8 U. S . Should I Wes t e rn Un ion $600 t o you? 9 Do you rec a ll what the purpose of the 10 A. Yes . 11 Q. -- o f t hat was? 12 A. Emi n ' s band manager , whose name I Wha t i s th a t ? 13 mentioned be f ore i s Pavel Kl ychk o , has three yo ung 1 4 children . He uses Amazon . 1 5 my house f o r his kids . He sends eve rything t o And when I or somebody 16 travels to Russia , we take it, and usually he 17 pays . 18 had sen t t he goods , I believe , with I ke . 19 Pavel Kl ychk o had g i ven him the $600 t o g i ve back 20 t o me . Beca use I wasn ' t mak i ng a t r i p to Russ i a , I Ike li ves on t he Wes t Coast . And I li ve on 21 the East Coas t, so I be li eve he Western Union ' ed 22 it . 23 24 Q. I see . Could I have you turn t o the nex t page o f th e exh ibit a t Ba t es page 1 92? You will 25 note , abo ut a third o f the way d o wn , Ike i s 1 66 1 writing to yo u again about a trans f er o f mo n ey . 2 He says : 3 tod ay . 4 He llo , $19 , 826 we nt in your direc t ion Do you recall the purpose o f that -Yes . 5 A. 6 Q. 7 A. So Ike and/ o r his c o mpany was the entity 8 th a t always paid our fe es , eve r since I ' ve work ed 9 for Emin . transf e r? And s o what he ' s letting me know is 1 0 that there was a $15 , 000 -- I mean , I will just 11 tell you wha t ' s broken down . 12 f e e , b e cause t hat ' s wha t t he f e e was , and th e n 13 $4 , 000 and whatever the rest o f it wo uld ' ve be e n 1 4 expenses . There wa s a $ 1 5 , 000 So he ' s le t ting me know t hat i t has 1 5 been sent . 16 Q. And the money that was sent is f or your 1 7 wor k a s a publicist? 18 A. And manager . Our company is both public 1 9 relat i o ns and mana g ement servi ces . 20 Q. Bu t it ' s r e lat ed to Emin ' s music career? 21 A. Emi n ' s mu s i c career , yes . 22 Q. Was the payment f o r any othe r purpose? 23 A. No . 24 Q. Le t' s t urn your at t en tion t o Exhibit 20 , 25 which is another one i n f r o nt o f yo u from ear l ier 1 67 1 today . 2 A. Twen t y , yes . 3 Q. So this i s an emai l, Mr . Dav i s had asked 4 you about the email forwarded on November 28th -5 not f orwarded -- sent to Rhona Gra ff on November 6 28th . 7 And we see on t his page t hat i t also was f orwarded to Rhona Gra f f on July 1 5th o f 201 7 . 8 A. To me from Rhona Graff . 9 Q. I' m s o rry . From Rho na to yo u on July 10 15th . 11 A. Yes . 12 Q. Do you recall what promp t ed her t o send 13 that d o cument back t o you o n Ju l y 15th? 14 A. I don 't. 15 Q. Do you think it had anything to d o wi th 16 the public statements about the June 9th meeting 17 tha t were being d i scussed a f ew days be f ore tha t ? 18 A. I don 't know . 19 Q. Do you recal l whether yo u ever sol i c i ted 20 It just seems random . from her t hat she send t hat back t o you? 21 A. I d o not . 22 Q. She notes in her email , attached to 23 doc t or rece i ved November 28 t h . 24 25 Do you know what she means by " doc t or " ? A. I d o n ' t . 168 1 Q. Is that mistyped for document? 2 A. I assumed it was either document or 3 document Trump or something like th a t. I don 't 4 know . 5 Q. Do you recall whe ther or not you 6 responded to t his email? 7 A. I did no t . 8 Q. Around the time of this ema il on July 9 15t h , do yo u recall whether Ms . Graff had s ent yo u 1 0 any other documents? 11 12 13 A. I don 't believe I received a nyt h i ng f rom her . Q. Did yo u ever ask any quest i o ns o r revert 1 4 to her on this ema il with any question of , why are 15 you s ending this t o me? 16 A. I didn ' t . 17 Q. And you 're cer t a i n you did not? 18 A. I' m I hate saying the wo rd certain. 19 I ' m certa i n , i n this case , I did no t . 20 Q. We can see on t his page t hat -- ac tu ally , 21 o n the Rhona Graff piece of it aga in, Ms . Graff is 22 Do nald Trump's assistant . Is that right? 23 A. As I underst and , yes . 24 Q. And do you recall ever having any other 25 communication wi th Mr . Trump himself that would 1 69 1 have prompted Rho na Graf f to send this d o cument to 2 you? 3 A. Mr . Trump Sr . or Juni o r? 4 Q. My understanding is she is Mr . Trump, the 5 President ' s a ss i s t a nt . 6 A. Yeah . 7 Q. Yo u did n o t 8 No . have any communications with Mr . Trump? A. No . 9 Q. Do you know if anyone e lse did that 10 11 would ' ve prompted her to send this? 12 A. I do no t, no . 13 Q. Can you think of any reas o n that Ms . 14 Graff would ' ve sent this document back to you? 15 A. An error perhaps . 16 Q. Any other reason? 17 A. 18 Q. We no te on th e t op third or so of the No. 19 page that it ' s blank and states redact e d att o rney20 client communication . 21 the basis is f o r red ac ting thi s ? MR . GAGE : 22 Probably a b etter question f or 23 me . 24 wou ld say from Rob. 25 Do you know wha t So , aga in, if it wa s a privilege log, it MR . PRIVOR: I am th e recipi en t. Okay, v e ry well . 1 70 MR . GAGE : 1 2 I t was f orwarded to me . BY MS . SAWYER : 3 Q. So before we leave this , you h a d 4 indicated that you didn ' t have a conversation with 5 Mr . Trump Sr . abo u t anyt h i ng rel a t ed t o this 6 emai l. 7 I s t hat accurate? A. I -- the conversat i o ns I -- we l l , no . In 8 ord e r to communicate wit h Mr . Trump Sr ., I 9 communica t ed t hr o ugh Rhon a Graff . 10 11 Q. So have you ever spoken with Mr . Trump Sr . d i rec t ly? 12 A. Yes , in p e rson . 13 Q. Okay . And when was the mo st recent time 1 4 th a t happened? 15 A. Approx i ma tely 6 weeks befo re he made h i s 16 annou ncement t o run f or President o f the United 17 18 St a t es . Q. So May of 20 1 5 was th e las t 1 9 spo ke d i rectly with him? 20 21 22 t ime you What was the t o pic o f th a t conversa t ion? A. Emi n Aga l ar ov was i n New York and had asked whether I c ou ld request that we d o a swing 23 by i n Trump Tower and s ay hello . 24 couple o f previous ones . 25 Rho na Graf f. We had done a I made a r eq ues t t hrough 1 71 And we went and had abo u t 10 mi nutes wi th 1 2 Mr . Trump. 3 pho t o graph . Emin said hello , posed for a Mr . Trump at the time was li sten i ng 4 to very loud rap music when we walked in, because 5 he knew I was in music sa id, look, I' ve been 6 presented with a platinum disk for a song called , 7 " Do nald Trump ," to which I -- that ' s h o w I 8 remember this incident. I cautioned him that he 9 sho uld perhaps l o ok at the wo rds t o the song 10 before he enjoyed it so much . 11 12 And a ft erward , he s a id to us, you know , I am going t o announce my nomination. And Emin 13 said , gr e at , g o od luck , and I ne e d t o take a 1 4 picture . 15 And a s they t o ok the -- I t o ok the 16 picture of them , he said , so maybe next time , I 'll 1 7 be host i ng you guys in t he Wh it e House. 18 19 And t hat ' s the last we spoke . Q. Okay . And th e n with regard t o this 20 document that we were discussing , this Exhibit 20 , 21 you d i dn 't talk wit h Mr . Trump Sr . Did you talk 2 2 with Donald Trump Jr . about it at all? 23 A. I don 't believe I did , no . 24 Q. Anyone else at the Trump Organization? 25 A. No . 1 72 1 2 Q. Mr . Garten? Did you mentioned to Mr . Gar t en t hat there had been a synopsis or a 3 documen t sent previously t o the Trump Organ i zat i on 4 about meetings with -5 A. No t t o my knowledge , no . 6 Q. -- Russian lawyers? 7 Did yo u ment i o n i t to Mr . Kave l adze? 8 A. I' m just trying t o look , because it may 9 be t hat Mr . Kaveladze sen t i t to me origina l ly . 10 So yes , the original , I believe , was from Mr . 11 Kaveladze to me wi th t he synops i s . 12 Q. And when was tha t sent to you , date - wise? 13 A. Twenty- three . 14 15 for it. One second , I ' m loo king Yeah , November 23rd , 2016 . Q. Can yo u reca l l if yo u spoke t o Mr . 16 Kavelad z e about that document around July 15th or 17 anyt ime in Ju 1 y o f 2 0 1 7 ? 18 A. To the bes t o f my knowledge , I did not . 19 Q. Do you remember if you ever ta l ked to him 20 abo ut it af t er ge t ting it from h i m on November 21 22 23rd of 20 1 6? A. Not specifically about the document , but 23 as yo u will see f rom t ext , we d i d talk abou t t he 24 logis t ics of having a mee t ing or no t. 25 BY MR . PRI VOR : 1 73 1 Q. With regard to that same exh ibit, yes , 2 with t he forwarding of t he synopsis -3 A. Yes. 4 Q. -- to Rhona Graff . 5 A. Twen t y . 6 Q. Twenty. You f orwarded it, obviously, t o 7 Rhona Graf f at the time . 8 for wa rd ed it t o anyone e lse? 9 It was -- Do you reca l l if you A. I be liev e I did no t, because it had been 10 f orwarded to me fr om Mr . Kaveladze , and I 11 f orwarded it t o Rhona . 12 f orwarded it t o anyone else. 13 I don't bel i eve I Q. Did you ask any q uestions as to why Mr . 1 4 Kaveladze wan t ed you t o share it wit h the Trumps? 15 A. Again , I bel i eve , i n s ubsequent ema il s , 16 where the l og istics come int o it, I pushed back a 17 n umber o f times and say q uit e clearly, i sn 't t h i s 1 8 th e e xact same t hing t hat was presented , with very 1 9 lukewarm response . 20 Q. Let's tur n your at t ention back now to t he 2 1 press reporting a r o und Jul y o f 20 1 7 abo ut the June 22 9th meeting . 23 Exh i b it 22, wh ich we had earl i er t h i s a ft ernoon . 24 I would like you to take a l ook at So you will r e call that t his was th e 25 document where you referred to having received an 174 1 interesting call regarding the meeting at Trump 2 Tower last year . 3 that this was a cal l And you testified earlier today from Al an Garten . 4 A. I believe it was from Alan Garten , yes . 5 Q. And Mr . Garten asked f or your 6 recollection of the June 9th meeting ; is that 7 right? 8 A. That is correct . 9 Q. Did Mr . Garten ask you about anyone 10 else ' s recollection of the meeting during that 11 12 call? A. I don 't believe he asked me about their 13 recoll e cti o ns, no . 14 Q. At any time, did he ask about any other 1 5 pers o n 's recollection o f the meet i ng? 16 A. Not recollections , no . 17 Q. Did he a sk a nyt h i ng t o do with o t her 1 8 people ' s accoun t s of t he meeting? 19 A. No t their acco unts . 20 Q. What did he ask about other people? 21 A. If I knew the name o f the Russ i an 22 attorney and also if I knew the name of the 23 Ag a l a rov's represent a ti ve . 24 Q. And what did you say in response to t hose 25 questi o ns? 1 75 1 A. That I would -- I did know the name of 2 the r ep resentati ve , and I would send t hat to him , 3 and I wou l d find out the name o f the Russ i an 4 attorney . 5 I actually couldn ' t even remember the name o f the Russian a tt orney . 6 Q. And you did even t ually share that name , 7 Ms . Vesel ni tskaya? 8 A. I believe so , yes . 9 Q. Who was the repre s entative you are 1 0 referring to? 11 A. I ke Kaveladze . 12 Q. And you ref e rred to him as a 13 representat i ve . 14 Why d o you use that term? A. Because I don 't know exactly wha t he 1 5 does , and in thi s in s tance, I saw h im as a 16 representative o f the Agalarovs . 17 Q. And what wa s the precise quest i on , as 1 8 bes t you can r eca ll, fr om Mr. Gar t en when he asked 19 abo ut the representat i ve? 20 A. I don 't rec a ll the exact question , to be 21 honest . But I know there was a quest i o n of , could 22 I remember the name of the Russian attorney f or 23 sure? 24 me as simple as , what was th e name o f th e And t hen I think -- I t h i nk he jus t asked 25 Aga l aro v ' s representative? I think the word 1 76 1 " r epresentative " was what was used . 2 3 Q. Can you rec a ll anything e lse from that conversa t i o n? So f a r , he h as asked you for your 4 recollection o f the meeting , and he has asked you 5 the ident i ty o f t wo persons . 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Is there anything else you can recall 8 from that conversation? A. No t th a t I can rec a l l, no . 9 Q. Is that the t o tality o f the conversation 10 11 th a t you c an reme mber? 12 A. That I can rememb e r , yes . 13 Q. Ho w l o ng did the call last? 14 r eca ll? 15 16 A. I d o n't . BY MS . SAWYER : 17 18 19 Do yo u Q. So you descr i be i t a s a n interesting call. Why was it interesting to you? A. It ' s possibly my -- I d o n ' t want to use 20 sarcasm b eca use it ' s not sarcastic . It ' s to -- I 2 1 don ' t mean i nterest i ng as in neces sa r i ly the 22 content . I mean interesting as in ou t o f the 23 blue , out of the ordinary, a nd I' m trying to i mply 24 that it ' s I' m now usi ng these horrible air 25 quotes -- that it ' s interesting . It ' s s o mething 177 1 you sho uld pay att e nti o n t o . Q. You described it a s out of the blue. 2 Did 3 Mr . Garten explain t o you why he was a s king you 4 about that meeting? 5 A. He said , a t the time, that there had been 6 s o me leaks. 7 Q. Did yo u ask him l e aks of what? 8 A. I did s a y that. 9 s aid , leak s o f what? Th a t is ex a ctly wh a t I And he sa i d o f email s to d o 10 with this June 9th meeting . 11 Q. Did he expl a in who the le a ks had been to? 12 A. To the media . 13 Q. And h e was e xplaining this to yo u on June 14 3rd? 15 A. He wa s exp l aining that to me -- he 16 explained it to me , whether it was o n June 3rd o r 17 whether it wa s in our follo w-up conversation that 18 happened I think a week later, a few days later, I 19 can ' t be sur e . But o v e r the c o urs e o f those 20 conversations, that is what was expl a in e d to me by 21 22 him . Q. And did he explain what email he was 23 talking a bout? 24 been leaks of an email, the email? 25 You said he h a d said there h a d A. At th e time, he said an email . 1 78 1 2 Q. And did yo u ask him what ema i l he was talking about ? 3 A. I did , and he said the ema il that I had 4 sent to Mr . Trump Jr . regarding a meeting at Trump 5 Tower. 6 Q. Did you remember the email? 7 A. I remembered sending the ema i l . 8 I didn ' t r emembe r or r eca ll t he de t a il of t he ema il at the 9 time. 10 11 Q. Did you then go back and l ook at the ema il ? 12 A. I did no t. 13 Q. So when yo u were speak i ng with him , yo u 1 4 didn 't have the email i n front of you? 15 A. I didn 't. 16 Q. Did he ask you anything about that email? 17 A. No, I don 't believe so , 18 i n iti a lly, no . He asked me about the mee ti ng . 19 Q. Did yo u ask him t o see the ema i l? 20 A. I d i dn 't. 21 Q. Why didn 't you? 22 A. Because he had said it was an email that 23 I had sen t, so by def a ult, I knew th a t I co ul d 24 look for it a t some later point . 25 Q. And d o you recal l when you actua l ly did 1 79 1 then go back and l oo k f or it? 2 3 A . No , I really don ' t recall t he t i me f rame . Q. You didn ' t 4 5 I don 't. you sen t go back and look for it be f ore t h i s mess a ge to I ke? 6 A . I don 't know . 7 Q. And i n talking to you about the me et i ng - 8 9 A . Yeah . 10 Q. -- did he indicate to you at all what 11 o t her people had s a i d abo u t wha t 12 mee t ing? 13 A . He did not . 14 Q. Okay . 15 BY MR . happened a t t he PRI VOR : Q. That conversation over the text took 16 17 pl a ce on June 3rd . 18 in person with I ke Kaveladze at any time a ft er 19 that , 20 Do yo u rec a ll wh e t her you met near i n time? MR . GAGE : just have a commen t 21 date . 22 necessarily to these texts . 23 I' m n o t I MR . 24 then . 25 BY MR . t he certain t hat tha t da t e is t ied PRI VOR : We ' ll a sk th a t PRI VOR : abou t as a q u est i on 180 1 Q. Do you kno w the date o f the text message 2 th a t refers to th e interesting call th a t you 3 received from Al an Garten? 4 A. Only based on what I ' m seeing here . 5 Q. And to the best of your recollection, was 6 it on or about June 3rd? 7 A. I d o n't know the answer t o that . 8 Q. Do you have reason to believe it was 9 sometime a fter June 3rd? 10 A. Not necessarily, no . 11 Q. What ' s your best memory of when that 12 13 14 conversation ove r text actually took place? A. We ll, the only memory I have o f it is seeing this. So to th a t end , this is what I'm 15 current l y accepting . 16 17 18 Q. Did there come a time when you met with Ike Kaveladze in person in June of 201 7? A. I had -- oh , I didn't have . I attended a 19 lunch that he was having in New York s o metime 20 b e for e I left to go overs eas at the end of June, 21 but I don 't kno w the date o f it. 22 23 24 Q. Do you recall meeting with Roman Beniaminov aro und the same ti me? A. The lunch was , in fact, with Roman 25 Beniamino v and Jas o n Tropea . 1 81 1 2 Q. What was discussed -- as wel l as Ike Kaveladze? 3 A. As wel l as I ke Kaveladze . 4 Q. So the participants were you , Mr . Tropea, 5 Mr . Ben i aminov, and Mr . Kaveladze . A. They had lunch. 6 7 I was doing something e lse and stopped by at the very e nd j ust to say 8 hello . 9 Q. Do you know what the purpose o f their 10 lunch was? 11 A. I don 't. 12 Q. When you arrived a t t he lunch to s top by, 13 did you have a conversation wi th them? 14 A. I was b as ic a lly doing a kind of goodbye 15 because I was leaving for 7 o r 8 months to go to 16 Asia . 17 18 So I knew that Mr . Kaveladze was in town, and it wa s a chance to kind o f s ay goodbye t o h i m. And wi t h the other two, I saw t hem qui t e a lot, 19 but , again , this would probab l y be the l ast or one 20 of t he l as t times I would see them until 201 8 . 21 22 Q. Was there any discussion at the lunc h about the June 9th meeting? 23 A. Not t he p a rt th a t I at te nded . 24 Q. Right, just focusing on your personal 25 knowledge o f wh i le you were in attendance . 1 82 1 A. No t while I was in attendance . 2 Q. Did you eve r come to l ea rn th a t 3 t hey did t a lk a bout the Jun e 9th meeting o utside o f yo ur 4 presence? 5 A. I haven 't le a rned t hat . 6 Q. Did you ever c ome to le arn wha t was 7 disc uss ed at the l u nch when yo u weren ' t there? 8 A. No. 9 Q. So focu s i ng just o n yo ur time a t the 1 0 lun cheo n, was there any discussi o n abou t the 11 Trump s? 12 A. Not t hat I can recall. I was t here for a 1 3 very, very short time , maybe 1 5 , 2 0 minutes at the 14 15 mos t. Q. Was there an y discussion about the 16 election o f 2016, the presidential election? 17 A. Not t hat I c a n rec a ll, no. 18 Q. I s th e r e anyt hing t hat you can recall 19 f r o m the conversation that was not simply a 20 personal discussion r e lat ed to t he f ac t th a t you 2 1 were l eav i ng the coun try s oon ? 22 A. No . 23 Q. Let's t a ke a look a t 24 MS. SAWYER : Can I just ask a question abou t 25 the ex hibit we were talking abo ut , that Exhib i t 1 83 1 22? 2 BY MS . SAWYER : Q. So up at the top , 3 4 June 3rd , 201 7 . 5 But your lawyer has indicated th a t migh t no t be the date . 6 7 i t does have tha t da t e , MR . pro cess GAGE : You know , just to advance t he -- 8 MS . SAWYER : 9 MR . GAGE : Yes . I may have made a mist a ke . Give 1 0 me just 2 minutes to speak to Rob . 11 MS . SAWYER : 12 MR . GAGE : 13 MS . SAWYER : Absolu t ely . We can go off the record . MR . PRIVOR : 16 17 We talked abou t t aking a break . In the i nt e r es t o f clari ty and accuracy . 14 15 Sure . We will g o off the reco rd at 2 : 09 . 18 [ Of f t he record 2 : 09 p . m. to 2 :11 p . m.J 19 MR . PRIVOR : Back o n the r ecord at 2 :1 1 . 20 MS . SAWYER : Gr ea t. 21 BY MS . SAWYER : Q. So j ust g o ing back to Exhibit 22 , 22 you 23 were just check i ng t o cl a ri f y wh e t her or no t t he 24 date on tha t docume nt , June 3rd , was t he correc t 25 date . 1 84 1 A. It do es appear to b e the correct date. 2 Q. Okay, grea t. 3 4 There's just a note up there at the t op : Messages to this chat and calls are n ow secured 5 wit h end-to -e nd encryption. Ta p f or more info. Can you explain again , wh ich applica ti on 6 7 were you us i ng? 8 A. WhatsApp . 9 Q. WhatsApp . And was that s o mething th a t 1 0 you had just selected at that p o int in time to 11 s t a rt encrypting? 12 at Why wo uld t hat message a ppe a r t hat point in ti me? A. I have no idea. 13 I don't bel i eve I 1 4 selec t ed anything or had changed anything a t all . 15 Q. Okay, s o that just automat i cal l y appeared 16 o n that particular day . 17 18 A. I have no id ea . Well , it seems t o be th e re, so yes wo uld be t he answer . 19 Q. And d o you know whether or not the 20 messages we re encrypted b e for e t his date? 21 22 23 24 A. We may h ave s ome that I can refer t o . d on ' t know . I Maybe there are some o ther o nes. I' m ac tu a lly j u s t t rying to fi nd one th a t has th e date t he same way as t his , and so f ar , 25 don't see o n e . I 185 No n e o f these have th e start o f it th e r e 1 2 a s a d a te. 3 these to refer t o , I d o n't know . 4 5 Q. But it wasn ' t something that yo u recall specifica lly selecting . 6 7 So I h a ve to s a y , bas e d on just having A. It wasn 't something I recall selecting at all . 8 Q. Okay . 9 BY MR . PRIVOR : 10 Q. Okay, let's turn yo ur attention to 11 Exhibit 23 , which you a lso h a ve in front of you . 12 This was an email from Alan Garten to you on June 13 2 6th, asking f o r a call th e next today . 14 I just wanted to know, I notic e d th a t he, 15 Al an , writes t o you , "He y , Ro b ," as if he is very 16 familiar with yo u . 17 e ma il, what wa s your experience interacting with 18 him? A. I had had one or I think two calls with 19 20 What was your , before this him . Outside of that, I'd never heard of him . 21 Q. Wh a t was the purpo se o f yo ur prior c a ll s ? 22 A. He had left me a message t o call him , and 23 then he called me a nd a sked if I could h a ve a call 24 with him and Alan Futerfas. 25 Q. So were b o th o f those pri o r calls with 1 86 1 regard to the June 9th meet i ng? 2 A. Correc t. 3 Q. And did yo u have any s ubst an ti ve 4 conversation with him in those two prior calls? 5 A. Did yo u s ay subst an tive convers a ti on? 6 Q. 7 A. No . 8 9 Yes . And the "Ro b," I mean , that ' s my name . Q. Do you rec a ll when tho se two prior cal l s 1 0 occ urred? 11 A. I believe one o f them wo ul d ' ve occ u rred 12 prior to t he June 3rd text, and I believe that I' m 13 re f erring to I ke , when I said I had an i nterest i ng 1 4 call , th a t it's from h i m. I don't rec a ll when t he 15 s econd one would ' ve been. 16 Q. When you refer to the text, yo u are 17 t a lking about Exh ibit 22? 18 A. I am , yes . 19 Q. Just so the record is clear . 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Th ank yo u. 22 Do you know what , othe r than the June 3rd 23 text a nd t hat call , do yo u rec a ll wh ether the 24 second call was be f ore or after that one? 25 A. I d o n't reca l l . 1 87 1 2 Q. Do you recal l what pro mpt e d Mr . Garten to call you? 3 A. 4 Q. Do you know if anyone asked him t o call 5 No . you? 6 A. I don 't know. 7 Q. Le t ' s t u rn to Exhibit 2 4 . 8 A. For some r eas on , mine are ou t of ord e r . 9 Q. So Exh i b i t 24 i s now June 27 t h . You 1 0 writing to Alan Garten is sort o f the lower half 11 o f t he p a ge . 12 A. Yes . 13 Q. And that is r egard i ng the ca l l , wh i ch 1 4 seems to be a r e f e r ence to t he prior Exh i b it 23 15 16 17 tha t we were just look ing a t. You were sending Al an Garten c on tact in f orma t ion f or I ke Kaveladze . 18 A. Yes . 19 Q. Do yo u recal l why yo u were sending Ike ' s 20 con t ac t i nforma ti on? 21 22 A. Becaus e he h a d asked me i f I h a d con t act informati on f or the representative o f the 23 Ag a l a rovs who wa s a t t he meet i ng . 24 Q. So you were now prov idi ng t he contac t 25 in f ormation . 188 1 A. I was . 2 Q. Do you recall any substantive discussion 3 about I ke ' s participation in the June 9th meeting? 4 A. I don ' t recall any . 5 Q. Do you recall if he asked you anything 6 about Ike's participation in the meeting? 7 A. I don ' t recall him asking . 8 Q. Do you know if Mr . Garten , in f ac t, spoke 9 to I ke Kave l adze? 10 A. I don ' t know . 11 Q. You didn ' t have any further conversa ti on 1 2 with I ke about his call with Mr . Ga rten? 13 A. I don ' t believe I did , no . 14 Q. Did you alert Mr . Kaveladze that you had 15 sha red his contact i nformat i on? 16 A. I ' m not sure I did . 17 Q. Would i t be common pract i ce t o share h i s 1 8 contact information with another lawyer without 19 telling him? 20 A. I was -- I b e lieved I was sharing just 21 h i s contact , noth i ng more than th a t. 22 a participant in the meeting . He had been 23 Q. Le t' s t ake a look at Exh i b i t 25 . 24 MR. GAGE : 25 MR . GOLDSTONE : I tri ed . I know . I don ' t know why I 1 89 1 2 3 can ' t make the n umbers wo rk . MR . GAGE : Here you go . get t hem back in order . I'm jus t tryi ng t o Okay . 4 BY MR . PRIVOR : 5 Q. Ok ay . Mr . Dav i s has gone t hro ugh several 6 par t s of t his ema il, so I jus t wan t t o clarify a 7 f ew points on it . 8 So on Jun e 27th , you we r e writi ng t o Emin 9 Aga l a r ov t hat you s et up a meet i ng i n Oc tober, 1 0 wh i ch you testified earlier was just -11 A. It' s an error . 12 Q. -- a mis t ake . Yo u had been interviewed by att o rneys f o r 13 1 4 th e second ti me . 15 It was ac t ually in Jun e . You s t a t ed t hat was Mr . Gar t en and pr obably Mr . Futerfas . 16 A. Correct . 17 Q. And yo u sa id, I did say a t t he time t h i s 1 8 was an aw ful idea and a terrible meeting . 19 Do you recal l t o who m yo u made that 20 comment? 21 A. Emi n . 22 Q. And to anyone e l se other than Emin? 23 A. I ke . 24 Q. And anyone e l s e o th e r t han Emin and I ke? 25 A. No . 190 1 Q. I think we ' ve talked abo ut your 2 conversation with Emin , but with reg a rd to Ik e , 3 when yo u expressed th a t it was an awful ide a and a 4 terrible meeting , what can you recall fr om that 5 6 7 8 9 conversat i on? A. Simply that it was a request from Mr . A. He o ften referred -- in fact, almo st always r e f e rred to Aras Agalarov as Mr . A. Q. Ho w l o ng d i d that conversation l as t? 10 A. I have no idea. 11 Q. A little b i t 12 fu rther down -- BY MS . SAWYER : 13 Q. And d o you recall what his respo nse was? 14 A. To? 15 Q. To you saying th a t it was a -- 16 A. Awful and terrible . I don ' t know if I 17 used the exact s ame words to him , but th a t 18 a requ es t from Mr . A. 19 Q. That was his respo nse? 20 A. That was his r espons e . 21 22 23 24 25 i t wa s It was a r eq uest fr om Mr . A. Q. And did he agree or disagree with you in a ny wa y? A. I don 't thi nk he himself gave an opinion . Yeah , it was o bvi o us to me fr o m his response . 1 91 1 Q. What was obvi ous? 2 A. That the r eq uest had come from his boss - 3 - I don 't know how you do that word . Hi s -- t he 4 person that he works for . 5 Q. Righ t. Bu t did yo u t ake tha t t o mean he 6 didn't agree wi t h it? 7 Or he was just exp r ess i ng no op i n i o n on -- 8 A. Expressing no opinion on it. 9 Q. And what d i d you exp l a i n to him? Did he 10 ask you why you thought it was a bad idea, a 11 terrible id ea? An aw f ul id ea and a terrible 1 2 mee ti ng . 13 A. Yeah . I don ' t bel i eve he did . I th i nk 1 4 he just ended it with, it's a r eq uest from Mr . A. 15 MS . SAWYER : Okay . 16 BY MR . PRIVOR : 17 18 Q. Ne ar the bot t om o f th a t long paragraph , you s t a t e , I don 't even know for sure who th ese 1 9 Russian people were , but hopefu l ly I ke can answer 20 21 22 for them. What d i d you have i n mind when you thought that Ike could answer f or them? 23 A. Th at because he had coordina t ed t he 24 mee ti ng , t he si t uation was always that I wou ld ask 25 and hope f ul l y get the meeting , and then Ike would 1 92 1 coo rd inate the meet i ng . That I had no idea, 2 outside of t his Russian a tt orney, really who t hese 3 o ther two peo ple were . 4 the translator , 5 I knew one was probab l y from what I had been told. But I s till wasn 't sure who this other person was . 6 wha t So I was saying was that I ke could probably 7 pro vid e that i nfo rmat i o n. 8 Q. You just sa id other t han the Russian 9 a tt orney . Did yo u know anythi ng abou t her be f o re 10 the June 9th meeting took place? 11 12 A. No, bu t I knew she was a t least a Russi a n a tt orney, based on what had been said . Q. Did yo u know anyth i ng about what type o f 13 1 4 a tt orney she wa s , whe t her she worked for t he 15 governmen t or not , A. No. 16 17 I f o r i nstance? believed she did , based on my ema il, bu t I didn 't know t hat she did. 18 Q. The last li ne o f this large paragraph 1 9 says that you ar e not happy being put in th i s 20 situa ti on with Federa l at tor neys investigating. 2 1 Who were the Federa l at t o rneys th at you had in 2 2 mind? 23 A. Well , I ac tu ally was re f erring to people 24 li ke Garten , Futerfas. 25 Federal o r no t . I don't know if they were I t ' s j ust a wo rd . I want e d i t to 1 93 1 sound ser i o us , s o I put Federal attorneys . But I 2 was r e f e rring to now we have t hese people 3 inv e s tig a ting the meeting and goodness knows who 4 e l se . So it's my way o f s aying this is re a lly 5 6 serious . 7 Q. At the time yo u wrote th i s ema il in J u n e 8 of 201 7 , we re yo u awa re th a t t here we re, in fact, 9 Federal inv e s tig a ti ons g o i ng on both a t Congress 1 0 and Robert Mueller on behalf o f the De partment o f 11 Justice? 12 A. I don 't know if, on t his particular da t e , 13 I was aware o f i t . 14 of it. 15 I mean, o bvi o us l y I am aware I don 't know when I b ecame a wa r e of th a t. Q. We spoke ear lier o f the FB I having 16 p oss ibly contacted yo ur attorney . 17 Were you aware a t t h is time t hat the FBI wa s investiga ti ng? 18 A. I don 't b e lieve I was . 19 Q. I s it p o ssib l e , when you re fe r to Federa l 20 a tt orneys , t hat yo u a re r e f e rring to ac tu al 21 22 Federal Government l awye rs? A. I mean , it is possible , in very generic 23 and general terms. 24 important, pay at t en tion. 25 But I' m trying t o s ay it's Q. And that was your way o f getti ng the 1 94 1 attention o f Emin? 2 A. Yes. 3 4 5 Is that r i ght? BY MS . SAWYER: Q. A little earlier in that email , it says , "T hey a re concerned because it links Don Jr . t o 6 officials fro m Russia -- which he has always 7 deni e d meet i ng ." 8 9 10 11 12 13 Who is the "t hey "? A. The Garten, Futerf as . Q. And had they said that to you? Had they expressed th a t concern t o you? A. They had men ti oned that, you know , had I seen i n the press , there had b een some random 1 4 comment a bout had I seen reports abou t Russi a and 15 something about not the meeting as such, bu t I 16 think they said something about they definitely 17 said something abou t Don and abou t Russi a , yes . 18 And my words in t here , which is always 1 9 deni e d meet i ng , I think is just f rom stu ff I had 20 seen in the press . 21 Q. Did they say to yo u that they were 22 concerned because it links Don Jr. to officials 23 fr om Russi a? 24 A. I don 't recall. I really don 't recall. 25 Q. Do you know if that ' s how they explained 1 95 1 to you why they were ca lling you , that they wanted 2 to ask you about t he reports about Don Jr. and a 3 meeting wit h Russian officials? 4 A. I believe they called initially to just 5 a sk me abou t my par ticip a ti on in t he meet ing and 6 as t he person who had sen t an emai l 7 up . that se t it In the course o f that , I don't know if they 8 sa id t hat specifi cally . 9 Q. At wha t po i n t i n time -- you sen t thi s o n 10 June 27th -- did you become aware that they were 11 concerned about the mee ti ng f or th a t reason? 12 A. Well, I had star t ed to see a l ot of press 13 reports abo ut Russia and Trump and al l o f that , so 14 some of this may be a mix tur e of my s uppo s iti on 15 aga i n , mixed i n wit h the fact. 16 Q. So at the time that you are considering 1 7 wha t statements to make about the mee ti ng , yo u are 18 aware that t here is a concern that it li nks Don 1 9 Jr . to o ffi cials from Russia? 20 A. Potentially, yes. 21 Q. Did yo u keep that i n mind when you were 22 making your statements? 23 A. My own st a tement? 24 Q. Yes. 25 A. I wrote my statement as I b e lieved was 1 96 1 2 3 th e tr u th. Q. And you we re awa re th a t t here had be en a concern among the l awyer s that repre s ented Mr . 4 Trump that it links Don Jr . to o fficials fr o m 5 Russi a a t th a t ti me? 6 A. Was I aware o f that? 7 Q. Yes . 8 A. I would have b ee n a wa r e of th a t. 9 BY MR . PRIVOR: 10 Q. Do you recall what pro mpted yo u t o 11 prepare a st a tement initi a lly? 12 A. Yes . I was b e i ng i n undat ed wi t h media 13 requests . I also was overs eas at the time , and it 14 was ve ry difficult to deal wit h . And I a lso work 15 in the medi a , so ma ny o f the peop l e who were 16 calling me were peop le that I have , 17 years , wo rked wit h . f or many And it wa s proving very 1 8 difficult just to avoid th em . A lot o f my fri ends 1 9 were i n the media, a l ot o f the pe op le I was 20 21 fri ends with we re in t he med i a . And thi s s t o ry was o b v i o u s l y becoming 22 very serious . 23 st a tement o f my own and o f my own writing th a t 24 told t he trut h t he way I r e called it. 25 I felt I needed t o prepare a Q. Had you already spoken to the press 197 1 before yo u prepared a statement? 2 3 A. I had . cal l out of the blue from the Washingt o n Post . 4 5 6 I was in Athens when I received a Q. What did you discuss with the Washington Post? A. They called me and said , I'm not sure if 7 you saw a report in th e New York Time s y e sterday - 8 - which I hadn 't that there had been some leaks 9 o f email s fr om, I believe, Mr . Trump Jr. regarding 10 a meeting at Trump Tower. And she said , we have 11 re a son to bel i eve th a t you sent those ema il s . 12 you send those emails? 13 Q. What did you tell h e r? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Did yo u tell her that yo u were s ending 16 17 18 Did the email on the behalf of someone else? A. I believe , a t that time, I just s a id th a t I sent the emails on behalf of a client, but I 19 don ' t beli e v e I named th e client at th e time . 20 21 22 Q. Were you trying to hide the identity of your cl i ent? A. I was trying t o pro tect the identity of 23 my cl i ent a t that time, until I could fi nd out 24 more about any of this. I had just got off a 25 cruise ship and had be e n on -- I me an , I hadn ' t 1 98 1 be e n on land f o r 10 days, so I had no id ea , 2 r ea lly, wha t was even go ing on. 3 Q. Wh a t was it th a t I mean , why were yo u trying to withhold 4 pro tect? 5 you were trying to the name o f your client? 6 A. I was tr ying to , having just been told 7 this , I was j ust trying to get s o me time t o see 8 wha t it was . I hadn 't read the New York Times. I 9 h a d no ide a wha t she was t a l king a bout i n the 1 0 report . So before I said anything abou t anybo dy , 11 I thought it wo uld be prudent to perhaps just re a d 12 something fir st , 13 find out . 14 i nves tigate , see wha t Q. Did you reach ou t I could to Emin at th a t point , 15 to ask him if he wanted hi s name reve a led? 16 A. I didn ' t 17 Q. Did yo u have any discussion with h i m 18 reach o ut to ask him that , no . about whe t her or not his identity shou l d b e 1 9 disclosed? 20 21 A. I did not. I tol d him I hadn 't disclosed hi s identity. 22 Q. Did yo u have any c onversati o ns with 23 either Mr . Ga rten or Mr . Fu terf a s about wh ether or 24 no t you shou l d disclose who originat ed t he r eq uest 25 f or the June 9th mean i ng? 199 1 A. I d o n't believe s o , no . 2 Q. Did you have any conversations with 3 anyone from the Trump Organ i zat i o n regarding the 4 identity of the person who had originated the 5 request? 6 A. I don 't believe so . 7 MR . PRIVOR : I'm g o ing t o sho w yo u our next 8 exhibit , which is Exhibit 32 . 9 document , SJC- KAV00 12 7 . It is a one - page Thi s is an ema il fr om yo u 10 to Emin Agalarov on July 9th , 2 017 , at 7 : 05 a . m., 11 subject regarding s t a t ement . 12 series of emails. 13 [Go ldstone Exhibit 32 was mark e d f o r 14 15 16 17 It i s a ctua lly a identification.] BY MR . PRI VOR : Q. Take a moment to look that over , and let me know if you recognize t hat document. 18 A. Yeah . 19 Q. Is this email r e c o unting your i nt e ract i o n 20 with t he Washington Pos t reporter th a t you h a d 21 jus t described? 22 A. Yes . 23 Q. You state here , abou t 24 t he middle o f t he paragraph , I tri ed t o assure her , which I think is 25 a referenc e to the r e p o rter -- 200 1 A. Yes . 2 Q. -- th a t I had been the one r eq uesting Don 3 meet with her and wou l d not comment on who 4 originated the request in Moscow . 5 Did t he reporter push back to ask you who 6 the id en tity o f the person who originated the 7 request was? 8 A. I believe she did ask if it was Emin 9 Aga l arov . 10 Q. Do you recall what you responded? 11 A. I don 't. 12 Q. But did you disclose Emin's name a t 13 t he time? 14 A. I did no t. 15 Q. Yo u state a t the bottom of that paragraph 16 that the FBI may be investigating this meeting and 17 ask f or fu r t her thoughts. 18 A. Yes . 19 Q. How did you know the FBI may be 20 inves ti ga ti ng? 21 A. We ll, I think it says they a l so say FB I 22 may be investigating, and I am talking previously 23 abo ut Trump lawye rs. 24 bad to assume , t hat in a conversa ti on I had , based So I assume , and I know it's 25 o n what I ' m writing here , they must ' ve said that 201 1 to me . -- 2 Q. So the they in th a t 3 A. Would be the Trump l awye r s . 4 Q. -- refers to Mr . Garten and Mr . 5 A. Yes, it appears so , yes . 6 Q. You state just be f ore t hat , Trump lawyers Futerfas? 7 are a l so i n a statement apparently saying the 8 r eason for t he meeting was " misrepresen t ed " by us 9 and that her ag enda was Magnitsky Act and 1 0 adoption . 11 What ' s your underst anding o f why it was 1 2 misrepresen t ed? Were you aware that t he Trump 13 lawyers had issued a statement suggesting that the 14 r eason for t he meeting was misrepresented? 15 A. We ll, I be liev e I' m saying -- and aga in, 16 I ' m writing this from a sort o f phone in Greece at 17 the time -- th a t, a pparently, they're sayi ng t he 18 reason was t hat the mee ti ng was misrepresen t ed by 19 us . 20 wha t 21 22 23 24 So I don ' t rea l ly th i nk I know at th i s stage t hey 're saying , bu t I'm saying , apparently , that's what they're sayi ng . Q. What gave you the impressi on that they had said i t was mi srepresen t ed? A. I believe I may have had a s t a t ement or 25 suggest i o n o f a statement f rom them at that stage 202 1 as t o something that we could potential l y put o ut . Q. You also s t a t e 2 3 I t hink t his is a further reference to their statement -- that her 4 agenda -- do you know who the " her " is that is 5 re f erred t o? A. Probably . 6 7 I s t hat Ms . Vese lnitskaya? second . But I will just look. One Her agenda , yes , Ms . Vesel nitskaya. Q. And so her agenda was Magnitsky Ac t and 8 9 ado pt i o n . Was th a t an acc urate s ummation o f what 1 0 you understood the meeting to be about? 11 12 A. So I underst and it, you are ask ing me if that's an accurate r ep resentation of what I f eel 13 o r what I u nderstand the meet i ng I attended to be 1 4 about. 15 Q. Th a t' s correct . 16 A. Yes . 17 Q. So you bel i eve th a t' s an acc ur a te 1 8 description. 19 A. Of what i t turned out t o be about , yes . 20 Q. You sugges t or ask the question here , 21 sho uld we prepare a s tatement? 22 sure , let's prep a statement . 23 24 25 Emin respond s , And t hen a t t he t op o f the page , you ' ve now provided , wha t abou t t his as a statemen t ? Yo u state , it should come from, I th i nk , 203 1 e ither Aras , yo u, o r me , or maybe fr o m Crocus 2 Group as a who l e . 3 And then you have a st a tement, the 4 meeting that took place in June 2016 between Ms . X 5 and representat i ves of the Trump campaign was the 6 result of a personal request by us and in no way 7 connected with the Russ ian Go vernment o r any of 8 its offici a ls. 9 Was th a t s tatement an acc urate s ummary o f 1 0 what you understood the meeting to be about? 11 12 A. It was an accurate representat i on o f my horror at that moment in time of having arrived on 13 dry land t o be t o ld by the Washington Post that 1 4 emails that I had sent referring to this had been 15 leaked. 16 Q. What was the horror that you referenced? 17 A. That I was being bombarded by journa lists 18 asking about my connections with Russia and 19 meetings and Do n Jr . and the Trumps and the 20 President . 21 quite d i s turbing. 22 I found it quite anxiety-i nducing and Q. Apart from the anxiety- producing aspect 23 of it, was your statement th a t you suggested here , 24 was that an accurate r ep resentation of what you 25 u nderstood had taken place at the June 9th 204 1 meeting? 2 A. It was a personal requ es t by us. Yes. I 3 bel i eve it wasn 't a request fr om t he Russ i an 4 Government . 5 6 7 8 It was a request from us . The req u est had come f rom Emin t o me . MR . GAGE : I t hink t he focus is on t he request , not the substance o f the meeting itself . MR . GOLDSTONE : The r eq uest, yes . 9 BY MR . PRI VOR : 10 Q. That request , though , as you described it 11 in Exhibi t 1, wh ich you will rec a ll is t he 12 original email t o Donald Trump Jr., you described 13 it there as related to the Russ i an Government . 1 4 wha t changed with this statemen t? 1 5 descr i b i ng it as just a persona l 16 17 18 So Why are you reque s t ? A. Because the request itself was a personal req u est . Q. Did you have any understanding a t t he 1 9 time , though , whether or not the Agalarovs were 20 seeking the r eq uest either on b eha lf of or at the 21 behes t of the Ru ss i an Governmen t ? 22 A. I did not . 23 Q. And t hat ' s something you don't know one 24 25 way or t he other? I s that right? A. That is correct . 205 Q. You don ' t 1 have any persona l knowl edge o f 2 whe t her the Agalarovs were , i n f ac t, seeking a 3 meeting on beha lf o f t he government? A. That is correct . 4 5 BY MS . SAWYER : 6 Q. And why was t hat point the point that you 7 decided to make in th i s statement , that it wasn ' t 8 a mee ti ng connected with t he Russian Government or 9 any o f it s officials? 10 Why did you f oc us on that? A. Because I was scared , because I didn ' t 11 understand all o f the i mp lic a ti ons , b u t I knew 12 that t his was very serious . 13 in that meeting and seen that this l ady , to me , And because I had sa t 1 4 wan t ed t o discuss the Magni t sky Act and wan t ed t o 15 t a lk abo ut adop ti on , I felt that was some t h i ng I 16 had to get across , that it was a personal request , 17 and it didn ' t a ppe a r t o come f rom anyt h i ng t o do 1 8 with t he Russian Go ve rnmen t. Q. That isn ' t exact l y what your statement 19 20 says . It says very declara ti vely : in no way 21 connected wit h t he Russ i an Government o r any of 22 its officials . 23 24 A. Well , i t ' s a lso no t a statemen t I put out . It' s a sugges ti on . So it's kind o f up for 25 d i scuss i o n now as to what anybody wanted to do 206 1 with it. But this is what I wanted to put . 2 I wan t ed to deflect th e id ea , having sat 3 in th a t meeting and heard what it was about , th a t 4 anybody would think , going forward , that there was 5 some Russ i an Government involvemen t, because even 6 if there had been, it wasn 't anything I had any 7 8 knowledge o f. Q. And by this time, you ' ve had the 9 conversat i on with the Trump Organ i zat i on l awyers 1 0 where they have expressed to you a concern about 11 the meeting , because i t links Don Jr . to mee ting 1 2 with Russian officials? 13 A. Yes . 1 4 BY MR . PRIVOR : 15 Q. Let's have you turn your attention to 16 Exhibit 27 . 17 You will recall this is the email th a t or i g i nated wit h you asking Alan Ga rten f or 1 8 the statement that they put out on behalf of 19 Donald Trump Jr . 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. And you can see on Bates page 1 32 , Don a ld 22 Trump Jr . ' s statement is there on the b ottom third 23 of t he p age . 24 Earli e r, you had testified, and I' m not 25 certain it ' s with respect to this exh ibit, I j ust 207 1 want to be clear , you had said that you didn ' t 2 adop t wha t his statemen t said b eca use you found it 3 ludicr o u s . 4 A. It was a different statement . 5 Q. I t was a different one . 6 7 Okay . So let's talk abou t t his one th en . Were you ever asked to comment o n th i s particul ar 8 s t a t ement? You sa i d you hadn 't seen it b e for e . 9 Were you e v er asked for any input on t he 1 0 statement? 11 A. I was no t. 12 Q. Were you ever consul t ed on any of t he 1 3 detai l s that are contained i n this statement? 14 A. I was no t. 15 Q. Okay . Let' s go t o the beg i nning o f 16 Donald Trump Jr . ' s statement , where he states , or 1 7 whoever wrote it states , I was asked t o have a 1 8 mee ti ng by an acquain t ance I knew fr om t he 20 1 3 1 9 Mi ss Un i verse pageant . 20 21 22 Would t hat acq u a int ance be you? I s t hat a reference to you? A. I assume it's me . I mean , b oth myself 23 and Emin we re both acquaintances t hat he knew fr om 24 th e re, bu t 25 in this instance, I assume it's me . Q. Would you describe yourself as an 208 1 acquaintance of Donald Trump Jr . or something 2 more? 3 A. No t more but at best an acq u a int ance . 4 Q. At the end of this statement , it states , 5 my f a ther knew nothing of the meeting or these 6 events. 7 Do you have any idea whether o r not 8 Donald Trump Jr.'s f a th e r, who is now the 9 President , was e v er mad e awa re of the June 9th 1 0 meeting? 11 A. I don't know . 12 Q. Did you ever have any discussion with him 13 yourself about the June 9th meeting? 14 A. I did not. 15 Q. Have you ever re ached out t o any 16 representative who can communicate for him , such 17 as Rhona Gra ff, abo ut the June 9th mee ting? 18 A. I believe not. 19 Q. In the middle of the page, you thanked 20 Alan Ga rt en for sending this, and you r e f e r to th e 21 Washington Post cal l. 22 reveal who had requested the meeting or any other 23 details. 24 25 And then you say, I did not Was there a reason that you did not wan t to reveal who had requested the meeting? A. Can y o u just repeat that last part o f it 209 1 2 aga i n? Q. Was t here any reason th a t you did no t 3 want t o rev eal who had reque s ted the meet i ng or 4 any other details? 5 A. Yes. As I said , I wan t ed t o pro t ect my 6 clien t. 7 8 9 10 11 Q. Did anyone ask you to not reveal the identity of your client? A. No . Q. Did anyone suggest to you not to reveal the identity o f your cl i ent? 12 A. No. 13 Q. So that was entirel y your decision? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. I a m going to have you take a l ook at -- 16 BY MS . SAWYER : 17 Q. I n th a t message , you say th a t when you 1 8 were contac t ed , the Wash ington Post had "i ncorrec t 1 9 spin on it ." 20 What did that mean? A. It means -- I don 't know the specifics , 2 1 because I don 't have the story i n fr on t o f me , but 22 that they had details or facts or something -- I 23 mean , spin i s jus t a wo rd -- I' m sure you know t he 24 wo rd -- the angle or whatever they t ook on it that 25 I bel i eved to be -- what do I say? I don ' t know , 21 0 1 incorrect or not q u i te right . 2 3 Q. And do you r eca ll wha t you f e lt was incorrect about it? 4 A. I don ' t , unfortunately . 5 Q. And i t doesn't ac tu a lly so u nd like she 6 has a s t ory . She said running wi t h information 7 that I had set up the meeting and had incorrect 8 sp i n on it. Bu t 9 you don 't recall wha t her spin on 1 0 your setting up of the meeting was? 11 A. No, I don 't. 12 Q. Cou l d I have you take a look a t 13 26? 14 A. Yes. 15 MR . PRI VOR : 16 We will go o ff the record, when she can come back in and take us o ff the record . 17 18 Exhibit We a re going to go o ff the record . I t is 2 :4 2 . 19 [Recess 2 : 42 p . m. to 2 : 50 p . m.] 20 MR . PRI VOR : 21 2 : 50 p . m. 22 BY MR . PRIVOR : 23 We a re back on the r eco rd at Q. I wo ul d like you to t ake a look at 24 Exhibit 26 , wh ich I think you have in fr ont of 25 you . I j ust have a f ew quest i o ns about this 2 11 1 document . 2 So s ti cking wit h the first page of the 3 documen t, Ba te s p ag e 228 , Mr . Dav i s h a d asked you 4 abo ut the second text b ox that refers to the 5 lawyers a ccep t ing we were j u s t 6 you thought tha t And t hat might have been -- 7 A. Me dia , j ournal i sts . 8 Q. La t er , y o u say, bu t 9 a cqu a int a nces . keen t o know who se t I see two boxes . t ell me t he med i a is up the mee t ing . Is that Emin writing to you? 10 11 A. No . 12 Q. That is you writing t o Emin . 13 A. Le t me j ust r ead this . Yes , it ' s the I t ' s -- we can use the word med i a or 14 same t hing . 15 journa l i s t s , wh i chever fi t. Bu t i t is t h a t the 16 media -- let ' s just use that -- accept we are 17 a cq u a i n t an ces , bu t t ell me t he medi a i s a lso keen 18 to know who set up t he meeting . 1 9 away i s what I' m trying to t e l l 20 That ' s not going him . Q. So y o u have med i a in the second instance 21 22 A. Yeah . 23 Q. 24 A. So this should be journalists t hen . 25 wh ere you s a id l awyers -- th e j ournal i sts accepted we are j ust So 21 2 1 acqua i nta n ces , awesome -- but they te l l me the 2 med i a i s a l so keen t o know who se t up t he mee ti ng . 3 4 My me an i ng t he r e is it' s no t go i ng away . They want to know who set up the meet i ng . Q. Okay . 5 So yo u are ce rt a i n t hat t he fi rst 6 i ns t anc e wh ere you sa id l awye r s , you mean t med i a 7 or j our n a l ists . 8 A. Yes , b eca u se a t t ha t s t age , t he r e we r en 't 9 any o t h er l awye r s . Q. Do you know what the date i s of th i s? 10 Or 11 d o yo u have a bes t g u ess o f when t h i s was sen t ? 12 13 A. Yes , b e s t gu e ss wou l d b e , you know , I was cal l ed Ju l y 9th so hold on a sec . It ' s Ju l y 9 1 4 or 1 0 , b ut I am 8 ho ur s ahead i n At hens , so I 1 5 wo ul d say it i s p r obab l y Jul y 10. Q. Let ' s sk i p ahead two pages to Bates page 16 17 230 , t he mi d dl e o f t he p age : 18 you . 19 They a ll asked abo ut I s that " they " a re f erence to the 20 j o ur na li s t s aga i n? 21 A. I'll jus t 22 Q. But I have sa i d request was from me . 23 A. Yes . 24 Q. Mean i ng you we r e tr y i ng no t l ook . 25 your cl i e n t ' s name agai n ? Ye s , "t hey " i s med i a . t o di s cl os e 213 1 A. Yes . 2 Q. I s t ha t 3 A. Ye s. 4 Q. The very next b ox : 5 rig h t? Let ' s see if that ho lds. 6 What did you me an by th a t? 7 A. Let ' s see if -- l et ' s see if that h o ld s 8 or if t hey end up fi nd ing out t ha t it was you and , 9 t he r e f o r e -- without me even t e lli ng them. 10 11 12 Q. Why were you so i ntent on making that ho ld? A. I was qu ite protective of my clients . 1 3 And u ntil I was rea ll y -- u ntil I felt I was 14 r ea lly pushed wit h no a lt e rn a ti ve , I didn 't wan t 15 h im to g o t h rough t he same ha t e ful media barrage 16 that I was going through . I was b uying some time , 1 7 perh a ps, for h i m. 18 19 Q. The next text box , you s t a t e th a t Pos t sa id that the FBI i s investigating , which 20 we ' ve discussed . 21 the You say why t h i s meeting was ask ed and if Duma was invo l ved . 22 A. Yep . 23 Q. Did yo u have any knowledge a s t o wh e t her 24 25 or not the Duma was invo l ved? A. I had n o k n o wledg e o f that , n o . 214 1 2 3 Q. Let ' s have you turn -BY MS . SAWYER : Q. Just before we le ave t ha t page , the 4 b ottom text : 5 your dad -- I hope this favor was worth it for it could b l ow up. 6 A. Yeah . 7 Q. Was that the e nd o f that text? 8 A. I don 't know . I was jus t look i ng to see 9 if there was ano t he r littl e b it, but there d o e sn 't 1 0 appear to b e , so I will say yes . 11 Q. Do you know if Emin responded? 12 A. If he did , we don 't have it. But, I 1 3 mean , we provided what was there , so I d o n't know . 14 15 Q. Do you know if you eve r had a conversat i o n with h im o r anyo ne e l s e abo ut th a t 1 6 point you were making , this could bl ow up f or Aras 1 7 Agalarov? 18 A. Well , jus t t o put i n context , wha t I was 1 9 saying about it cou ld bl o w up , I was meaning it 20 could blow up mean ing t ha t both you and your 21 f a t he r will ac tu a ll y be named. Tha t i s whe r e I 2 2 was tryi ng to go wit h that . 23 Q. I n t he med i a? 24 A. I n th e medi a . We ll, and ac tu a lly, 25 o utside o f the media as wel l. I mean , pr i o r t o 215 1 that, I say the FBI , you know , the Wash ington Post 2 says th e FBI is inves tig a ting. 3 you kno w, if the FBI i s inv e s tigating. 4 bl own up . 5 6 And it has So that is what I was trying to say . Q. So it could have leg a l i mp lic a tions for them? A. I was saying -- no . 7 8 It could blow up, I was saying it could blow up, meaning you may be named and , by 9 defau lt, yo ur f a ther. Q. I 'll have you turn to page 232 . 10 11 Mr . Davis had played an a udio clip 12 A. Yeah . 13 Q. -- related to that page . 14 And in the a udio clip , Emin had referr ed 15 to a strategy in the a udio. Did I hear that 16 correctly? 17 A. I think he t a lks abo ut a statement or 1 8 something . I don't know. Could we hear it again , 19 perhaps? 20 21 MR. PRIVOR: Are we ab l e to r ep l ay that again? 22 [Begin audio recording .] 23 MR. EMIN AGALAROV : 24 Rob , I underst and your frustration and in no way I'm trying to downs ize 25 what ' s happening . But as you kno w, as the meeting 216 1 happened thro ugh Ike and my dad , I was no t 2 invo lved, and I was a lso against all 3 possibi lities . 4 comments should go through them . 5 wit h I ke what the s t rategy should be . The same way right no w, any 6 mind you commen ti ng anyt hing. 7 I don 't And t here ' s no pro blem fr o m my side , as yo u understand . 8 [ End audio recording.] 9 MR . 10 Just figure out BY MR . GOLDSTONE : I underst and . PRIVOR : 11 Q. So it sounds like -- 12 A. I did 13 Q. It sounds lik e Emin referred to speaking 1 4 to Ik e t o determine wha t t he stra t egy is. 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Do you have an understanding of what he 1 7 meant by t he stra t egy? 18 A. I t ook it t o mean t he stra t egy of t he 19 statement , when it should be put out , if it sho uld 20 b e pu t ou t, wha t should b e pu t ou t. 21 Q. Did the strategy have anything to d o wit h 2 2 whether or not , 23 24 25 f or instance, to identify who your clien t was , who had requested the mee ti ng? A. I don 't know wha t he meant , bu t to be tho se three things I j ust stated . I t ook it 217 1 2 3 Q. May I have you turn t o page -BY MS . SAWYER : Q. So d i d you understand him t o be 4 encouraging you to coordinate your statement with 5 6 Mr . Kaveladze? A. No, I understoo d him to be saying that, 7 in his wo rds , as the me eting was c o ordinat e d by 8 Aras and Ike Kaveladze , that they should decide 9 whether a s tatement s h o uld be put o ut and , hence , 10 the strategy, what should be done with it, not me 11 12 a nd not Emin . Q. Okay . And so you understoo d the 13 coo rdinate as to what th e strategy is j ust t o be 14 15 16 referring to the putting out of a st a tement? A. Yes, and if there shou l d be one , when there should be one , who drafts it . 17 Q. Did anyone ever ask you t o speak wit h Mr . 18 Kaveladze to make sure that you understood what he 19 was saying about the me eting? 20 A . No. 21 Q. Did anyo ne ever a s k y o u t o s peak wit h 22 anybody at all to find o ut what their versi o n of 23 the mee ti ng was? 24 25 A. They did not . BY MR . PRI VOR : 218 1 2 Q. May I have you turn your attention to Bates page 236? You state : I , myself , will be 3 putting o ut the fol l owing statement short l y . 4 A. Yep . 5 Q. My ideal s t a t ement wo uld be : 6 by my clien t 7 I was asked in Moscow , Emin Agalarov , t o request a meeting between Russian attorney and Do nald 8 Trump Jr . 9 I n this i nstance , yo ur ideal statement is 10 to identify your client . What changed? 11 A. I t became craz i er and craz i er , and 12 everybody was asking me , t he media , is your clien t 13 Emin Agalarov? 14 15 Now , again , maybe I don 't need to offer this , but I wi l l, I o nly had one cl i ent at that 16 stage , so it wouldn ' t take a genius . 17 Q. Did you view your cl i ent exclusively as 1 8 Emin or did i t also include Aras? 19 A. Emi n . 20 Q. Exclusively? 21 A. Exclus i vely . 22 Q. The next sentence states : The lawyer had 23 apparen t ly stated she had some i n t erest i ng 24 in f orma t ion regarding f unding to t he DNC from 25 Russia , which the Trump team might find 219 1 2 interesting . You also considered this to be par t of 3 your i dea l statement? 4 A. I did . 5 Q. So you f el t i t wa s impor t an t to disclose 6 the par t abou t -- you describe it as in t eresting 7 in f ormation . Be f ore you had d esc rib e d i t as 8 damaging information . 9 10 Why the change o f descript i o n? A. Because having been in the meeting , I 11 re a lized t hat maybe some o f the language t hat I 12 used in order to ge t t he meeting didn ' t actually 1 3 match up t o it , so I chose t o use th e word 1 4 interes t ing informa t ion . 15 Q. But th i s morning when yo u test i f i ed , you 16 said what prompted the meeting was the potential 1 7 o f d ama ging in f orma t ion . 18 A. Yes , f or sure . 19 Q. So th e lawye r stated she had some -- you 20 describe it here as interes t ing informa t ion , 2 1 whereas this morn i ng yo u test i f i ed that your 22 understanding was the lawyer was offering damaging 23 in f orma t ion . 24 A. Okay . So I t hink -- maybe I' m saying it 25 two d if f e r e nt ways or mayb e it i s being understood 220 1 -- what you ' re asking me n o w i s I ' m sayi ng what my 2 ideal s t a t ement would b e , and my id ea l statemen t 3 is t hat I wou l d use the words interes ti ng 4 informat i on . That ' s my ideal statement on July 5 wha t ever day i t is. What I was told in the initial request, 6 7 that i t was damag i ng i nfo rmat i o n. I j ust didn ' t 8 b e lieve th a t my ideal s t a t ement should includ e t he 9 word damaging . 10 Q. If you skip ahead two more pages to 238 - 11 12 A. Yes . 13 Q. -- you can see aga i n you stated what your 14 ideal s t a t ement would b e . 15 s entence matches the same as Bates page 236 16 A. 17 Q. You can see t he first -- Yeah . where you have id en tifi ed Emin 1 8 Agalarov as your client . 19 The part abo ut what the l awyer stated 20 about int e r es ti ng informa ti on is no longer part of 21 your "ideal s tatement." 22 23 Why i s that? A. Well , I just need to j ust confirm whether this i s -- can I just read t hrough t h i s? 24 Q. Yes , please . Take your ti me . 25 A. So a l tho ugh i t doesn ' t c l arify it , I 22 1 1 bel i eve that th i s is Emi n ' s ideal statement , and 2 th a t' s why it i s slightly different to mi ne . 3 I bel i eve we a ls o provided an aud i o file i n which 4 he says , I believe you ' re giving a little too much 5 informa ti on th a t yo u don 't need to, and I wo uld do And 6 it as this. 7 8 So I bel i eve that having sent my ideal s t a t ement , Emin now r espo nds wit h wha t h i s id ea l 9 s t a t ement wou l d be . 10 11 Q. Okay, so if I ' m understanding you correctly -- I just wan t t o make sure -- 12 A. Yes . 13 Q. -- the record i s c l ear . The descr i ption 1 4 th a t is on Ba t es page 236 , t hose are your words? 15 A. They are , 16 Q. And when we turn to 238 , this is now 17 i ndeed . Emin ' s vers i on o f your id eal statemen t. 18 A. Which is sligh tl y t oned down . 19 Q. Okay, s o it i s Emin who has remo ved the 20 par t abou t wha t the lawyer had stated about having 21 some "i nteres ti ng information." 22 A. Yes . 23 Q. Okay. 24 BY MS . SAWYER : 25 Q. And i n your ideal statement , you 222 1 mentioned the DNC , but y o u say n o th i ng about 2 Hillary Cl i nton . 3 Why was th a t? A. Because I had since -- I had s i nce been 4 in that meeting , and there was nothing about 5 Hill a ry Clinton . Q. So when you say t he lawyer had apparen tl y 6 7 stated -- 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. 10 meeting? 11 -- you are talking about dur i ng t he Or when are you talking about? A. I will j u s t 12 about a t 13 name from there . 14 15 look aga i n . t he beginning . I' m talking I' ve removed Hillary's I mean Hillary Clinton . It' s no t like she ' s my friend, ca lli ng her Hillary. But I removed her name from there . 16 17 Q. On page 236 . 18 A. On page 236 , yes . 19 Q. Yo u remo ved i t . Was it i n there at s o me 20 point? 21 22 23 24 25 A. No , n o . I mean, I remove it when I suggest my ideal statement . I remove her name . Q. And I t h i nk yo u ment i oned t h i s earlier . Her name never came up during that meeting? A. No , her name , I be l ieve , did come up 223 1 during that meeting , but in a very generic way, 2 not in a way that seemed to r e lat e in any way to 3 what had been s tated t o me by Emin . 4 I will make that easy to understand . 5 They talked about donations to the DNC 6 and support for its candidate , Hillary Clinton. 7 That is the time her name came up that I heard 8 during th e meeting. 9 wou l d you cal l So it was as an almost as a , it an a ttachment? It was a lmos t as 1 0 a , and its candidate , Hillary Clinton . 11 12 MS . SAWYER : Okay. BY MR . PRIVOR : 13 Q. So focusing you back o n Bates page 238 . 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. We are jus t 16 cont i nuing with the statement . 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. The next sentence is: I reached out to 19 Donald Trump Jr ., and he agreed to squeeze us into 20 a ve ry tight schedule . 21 22 Why did you describe it as a v ery tight schedule? 23 A. Again , with respect, I believe this is 24 Emin suggesting to me wha t 25 to . he wou ld change this 224 1 Q. Okay . And if we loo k at 236 , 2 unfo rtun a t e ly, we have t he s t a rt o f t ha t sen t ence . 3 We don 't know if t he r e is a r ema rk abo ut t he v ery 4 t ig ht sched ul e . 5 A. Oh , it l ooks like he had a greed to -- 6 yes , it l ooks like I a l so wrot e th a t. 7 So -- wa it. I'm sorry, so what are you -- what was your 8 q u es tion? 9 Q. Why a re yo u desc ribing it as a v ery tight 1 0 schedu l e ? 11 A. Oh , beca use on t he way out , Don s a id, 12 d on 't wo rry, we have hundreds of meetings . And, 13 you k no w, I assumed at the time that was, in the 14 campaign and eve ryt h ing t ha t was going on , it was 15 a v ery tight schedu l e . 16 Q. When you initially set up the meeting -- 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. -- go ing back to Ju ne 3rd o f 2016 , wh ich 1 9 is Exhibit 1, if you n eed to reference it, your 20 initi a l exchange wit h Donald Trump Jr. proposed a 2 1 meeting a t 4 p . m. Do yo u rec a ll th a t? Why don 't 22 we take a l ook at Exhibit l? 23 A. Yes, can we? 24 MR. GAGE: 25 MR. PRIVOR : Gi ve us a second t o r eo rg an i ze . Sure . 225 1 If you l o ok at Exhibit 4 -- 2 MR . GOLDSTONE : 3 MR . PRI VOR : I found 4 . I think what we 're going to d o 4 is we ' re going to mark a new exhibit that shows 5 the full chain . I t ' s across multiple exh i b it s . 6 MR. GOLDSTONE : 7 MR . 8 33 . PRIVOR: Okay , 9 I have it anyway , I am goi n g to show you Exhib i t here you go . Exhibit 33 is Bates DJTFP00011895 thr o ugh 10 8 97 . 11 a sor t 12 between you and Donald Trump Jr. 13 [ Go ldstone Exhibit 33 was marked f o r You will note , that this is id en tifi ca ti on .] BY MR . 16 17 for the record , o f a collect i on o f var i ous ema il exch a nges 14 15 so. PRI VOR : Q. And you had initially proposed that the mee ti ng would t ake pl ace at 3 p . m. 18 A . Well , 19 ema i l , 20 time . 21 if by initially you mean my initial I didn ' t pro p o se anyth i ng i n terms o f the Q. I' m s o rry. 22 proposes . 23 th a t 24 down , It' s Don a ld Trump Jr. th a t So if you l ook at the second page o f exhibi t at 11 896 , abou t a quar t er o f the wa y you can see , on June 7 th, 20 1 6 , at 5:16 25 p . m., Donald Trump Jr . proposes 3 o ' c l o ck at our 226 1 o ffi ces . 2 A. Yep . 3 Q. I app reci a t e yo ur he l p s etting it up. 4 5 And then on page 11895 , the first page of t he exh i b it, now on Wed ne sd ay , June 8 t h , yo u' ve 6 info rmed Mr. Trump t ha t th e r e i s a conflict . Th e 7 Russian attor n ey i s in court until 3 and asks if 8 you can move it until 4 . 9 10 11 A. Mm- hmm . Q. And then Mr . Trump responds on J u ne 8th , a t 11:15: Yes, Rob . I could d o t ha t, unless t hey 1 2 wan t ed t o d o 3 t oday i ns te ad . 13 Ju s t let me know , a nd I ' ll l ock it in e ither way . 14 A. Mm- hmm . 15 Q. So it s o u nds like, re ad ing t h is ema il, 16 Do nald Trump Jr . i s of f er i ng to do i t at another 17 time, 4 o ' clock i ns t ead o f 3 o ' clock , or he is 18 even willi ng t o d o it a diff e r en t d ay a lt oge th e r. 19 A. Mm- hmm . 20 Q. Was t ha t 21 22 your u nde r s t and i ng o f it being a ti gh t schedule? A. Yes , and that the meeting wou ld b e fairly 23 short , wh i ch i t wa s . 24 go t th e impr ess ion t hat we wou ld be squeezed i n , 25 in some way . And t ha t we were -- I a l ways 227 1 2 Q. Okay . So no twi thstand i ng his flexib i l i ty i n when he could do i t, your unders t anding of i t 3 being a t i ght schedule i s tha t i t wou l d be a shor t 4 meeting? 5 A. And t hat i t wo u ld be slipped into 6 wha t ever else they had going on . 7 Q. And ho w did he communicate to you that it 8 was going to be a short mee t ing? 9 A. He d i dn 't. 10 Q. So what gave you that impression? 11 A. That -- I suppose logic t hat , if you j u s t 12 look at when it was we asked for t his and the time 1 3 o f i t and the time frame , I bel i eved that we were 1 4 being squeezed in . 15 I' m no t saying tha t' s correc t. I' m just 16 saying I believed that we were being squeezed in . 17 When we asked , wh e t her i t was 3 or 4 , we wo uld 1 8 probably be a very shor t meeting , squeezed be t ween 1 9 o ther meetings . 20 Q. So tha t was just your own inference . 21 A. I t was my own i nference . 22 Q. It wasn ' t based on anything that -- 23 A. No . 24 Q. 25 A. No . -- someone else t hat said t o you? 228 1 Q. Cont i nuing wi th our Exhibit 26 , wh i ch i s 2 the text messages , t he next sen t ence , the Russian 3 attorney presented a few genera l remarks about 4 campaign funding and quickly turned the topic to 5 the Magni t sky Act and adoption, wh ich carries over 6 to t he next page on 239 . 7 A. Yep . 8 Q. Adop ti on of Russian children , at which 9 point the meeting was halted by Don Jr . and we 10 left. 11 12 13 Nothing came of that meeting , and there was no f ollow-up be t ween t he p a rties. I n f ac t, there was some follow-up. that right? Is Was there an e ffort to arrange a 1 4 mee ti ng in Novemb e r 2016? 15 MR . GAGE : 16 have to say . We ll, two different questions , I It ' s the definition of follow- up , 1 7 but go ahead . 18 MR . PRI VOR : Okay . 1 9 BY MR . PRI VOR : 20 Q. Well , give me your und e rstanding of 2 1 whether o r not there was f o ll ow-up . 22 A. Well , to me , there was no follow- up 23 between the par ti es , because t he only f ollow-up 24 was I ke Kaveladze asking me on behal f of Aras to 25 set up another meet i ng . 229 1 Q. Okay, and as I think you testified 2 earlier t oday, you don 't consider th a t t o b e 3 foll ow-up? A. I don ' t . 4 5 b ut Aga in, I may not be correct , I don't consider i t like t hat , be t ween t he I do consider it t o be follo w- up , but 6 par ti es . 7 f r o m I ke or Emin or Aras , not f r o m these Russ i ans , 8 which is wha t I int e rpr e t ed it as . 9 Q. Let's take a look a t Exhibit 29 . Okay, 1 0 so in Exhibit 29 , the sort o f b ottom third o f the 11 fi rst page o f th a t exhibi t at Bates page 1 44 , 12 you ' re making the s t a t ement : 13 c l arifyi ng and correcting mi sconceptions . 14 Do you see where I am? in hope of 15 A. Yes, I do . 16 Q. Two more paragraphs down , you said , I , 17 therefore, used the s t rongest hyperbolic l ang u age 18 in order t o secure t his request fr om Donald Trump 1 9 Jr . based o n the bare f acts I was g i ven . 20 21 What did you mean by hyperbolic l ang u age? A. Th a t I had puffed it and used some 22 keywords that I thought would attract Do n Jr . ' s 23 a tt en ti on . 24 Q. And in your colloquy with Mr . Dav is 25 ear l ier , I th i nk he re f erred t o it as sort o f the 230 1 work of a publicist . A. I mean , publicist puff is how th ey get 2 3 meetings. Q. What were the bare facts that you had in 4 5 mi nd from wh ich you drew your hyperbolic l ang u age? 6 A. The conversation I had with Emin that 7 morning . 8 Q. Did you have any concern th a t, by using 9 hyperbo li c l anguage , as you d i d , you would damage 1 0 your reputation if you couldn ' t deliver on what 11 was in t hat initial ema il request i ng t he mee ting? 12 A. No. No. 13 Q. Your ema il, which is in Exhibit 1, refers 1 4 to providing incriminating information. 15 Did you think that Dona l d Trump Jr . wou l d be disappointed 16 if you didn ' t deliver on that promise of 17 informa ti on? 18 A. I didn 't think it at the time I wrote t he 19 ema il. 20 Q. And you also r e f e rred t o Russian 21 Government support . 22 hyperbolic about your statement? 23 24 25 A. Yes. Was th a t part of what was I t was using a little ar ti st i c license. Q. And you referred to high - level , sens i t i ve 23 1 1 in f ormation . Was that also what you consider to 2 b e hyperbolic? 3 A. No . I considered th a t, if somebody i s 4 telling me they have damaging informat i on about 5 someone who is a presidential candida te and the 6 DNC, which kind of operates that presiden ti a l 7 candidate and a lot more besides , that , to me , i s 8 highly sensitive and confiden ti al , wha t eve r it is. 9 Q. And did you have any concern that any of 1 0 those descripti ons would cause grief for you if 11 you couldn 't deliver on wha t was described i n th a t 12 hyperbolic email? 13 A. I did not when I sent i t , no . 14 Q. A co uple paragraphs down , you refer t o 15 the Crown prosecu t o r. And you expl a in here that 16 you are using this language from your U. K. 1 7 backgro u nd , in wh i ch yo u refer t o a ll f ormer or 1 8 current Federa l prosecu tor s as Crown prosecutors . 19 A. Mm- hmm . 20 Q. How d i d you know th a t Ms . Vese lnitskaya 2 1 was a Federal prosecu t o r? 22 23 24 A. Emin had said that she was a prosecutor. I didn 't know she was Federal , b ut I had been told she was wel l- connected . And as I said , I 25 made that g l ib remark , we l l , she ' s not connected 232 1 to the power grid , so what ' s she connected to? 2 And still , I didn 't ge t an answe r, so I 3 took th a t to mean she was probably connected t o 4 the government . I grew up i n England , and when I s tudied 5 6 journalism, we had t o s t udy a piece of law, a very 7 sma l l p i ece , but we were taught that al l the 8 equivalen t s of Federa l prosecutors in this coun tr y 9 were Crown prosecutors . 1 0 Crown . 11 12 I' ve a l ways ca lled them Russia hasn ' t had a crown since 1917 . Q. So your u nders t anding f rom the o ut se t was that she was some sor t o f Federal prosecu t or? A. That was my understand i ng , 13 f ormer or 1 4 current . 15 Q. Okay . 16 paragraph . And let' s go t o the nex t The other important fact I wish to 1 7 make very clear is when I re f er to Russ i an suppor t 18 f or Mr . Trump, and t he suppor t o f Emin and his 19 f ather , Aras , this was based on havi ng spent time 20 with Mr . Trump and t hen during t he Miss Universe 21 in Moscow . That phrasing , 22 " And then during the Miss 23 Universe," sugges t s th a t yo u knew Mr . Trump be f ore 24 th en . What was the time t hat you had spent with 25 Mr . Trump be f ore then? 233 1 A. I t ' s , I mean , i t ' s j ust a badly wr i tten 2 email , bu t it's spent time wit h Mr . Trump during 3 Mi s s Uni v erse in Moscow . 4 5 Q. Okay . So the first time you had met Mr . Trump was in connec ti on wit h t he Miss Universe 6 pageant? 7 8 A. I had met him on two previous occasions i n a profess i onal capacity reg a rding a co uple 9 c lie n t s o f mine . As I ment i oned before , I 1 0 represent the Friars Club , and I handled their 11 roasts , and Mr . Trump had a tt ended some o f t hose 12 as a gues t. 13 f or those , so I had met him at a coup l e o f those . 14 15 And I had organized t he r ed carpet And I also had , in 2010 , I b e lieve, had a c lie n t who was i n the Celebri t y Apprent i ce . And 16 during one o f her many breakdowns , I had gone and 17 18 I had seen Mr . Tr ump with her there. But t he first ti me I met him proper l y was 1 9 in connection wi th the Miss Universe contest . 20 Q. You had t estified ea rlier t oday abou t 21 your ti me in Russ i a and hav i ng seen h i gh -l eve l 22 business o fficials who interacted with or had 23 expressed s upport f or Mr . Trump . 24 who those high -l evel business of fi cials were? 25 Do yo u rec a ll A. Specifi cal l y , the i nstance I was talking 234 1 about was during the time Mr . Trump was in Moscow 2 for Miss Uni ve rse, and Aras Agalarov had organized 3 a k i nd of welcome meet and greet f o r s ome high- 4 level business o fficials. The only name I rec a ll is Herman Gref, 5 6 who was the chairman , maybe s till is, the chairman 7 o f Sberbank in Russ i a . And t here we re about 20 , maybe 25 , people 8 9 at Nob u in Moscow . 1 0 it was held there . 11 Emin i s a co - owner of Nobu, so And I witnessed firsthand their ado r a ti on o f him . 12 Q. Were you a t t hat dinner at Nobu for t he 13 durat i o n, the who l e d i nner? 14 15 A. Yes. It wasn 't a dinner , bu t it was a it was kind o f li ke a meet and greet , ask some 16 questions , shake hands , photo , leave. 17 Q. Did you i n t eract wit h Mr . Trump at th a t 1 8 Nobu event? 19 A. Other than Emin and I greeted him -- so 20 it was t he day Mr . Trump had arrived in Russia for 21 the Mi ss Uni v erse pageant . Because he had t o 22 delay his arrival by a day , he came straight from 23 the a i rport . 24 interacted wi t h him there was a t t he entrance to 25 Nobu . And so t he fir s t ti me Emin and I I t was simply a he l lo , welcome , nic e to see 235 1 you . 2 Q. Other t han Mr . Gref , are there any o t her 3 h i gh -l eve l business o ff i c i a l s that y o u can reca l l 4 who were at that event? 5 6 A. There were , bu t I don 't recall who they were . Q. And when you ear l ier had testified abo ut 7 8 the high - level business officials , is this t he 9 gr o up i ng that you had in mind? 10 A. This is the grouping I had in mind . 11 Q. Was t here any other even t 12 13 tha t you had i n mi nd referred to high - level business o f ficials? A. No , although many o f Emin and Aras ' 14 friends and colleagues who I had me t at various 15 fami ly events o r concerts a l so had sa i d , oh , 16 you ' re American , Mr . Trump , you know , I hope he 17 does well . 18 And t hey were also high - level business 1 9 pe o ple . And again , I don ' t I was referring t o a combina t ion of 20 either . 21 both of tho se . 22 Q. Okay . 23 Bu t kno w who they are So these are people at the Nobu event as well as persons 24 A. Yes . 25 Q. -- who were fr i end l y wi th the Agalarovs? 236 1 A. Yes . 2 Q. Anyone else t hat you have in mind? 3 A. No . 4 Q. Was there ever any other time that you 5 discussed the Magni t sky Act wit h anybody i n the 6 Trump Organization? 7 A . No . 8 Q. Or anyone from the Trump campaign? 9 A. No . 10 Q. How about the topic o f U. S . sanctions 11 aga i nst Russia? Have you ever disc u ssed t hat 12 t op ic with anybody in the Trump Organization? 13 A. Not that I recal l, no . 14 Q. Ho w abou t wit h the Trump campaign? 15 A. No t t hat I rec a ll. 16 MS . SAWYER : 17 Just a couple . BY MS . SAWYER : 18 Q. At the event that was at Nobu -- 19 A. Yes . 20 Q. 2 1 bus i ness were t here any discussions of possible doing bus i ness i n Ru ss i a , the 22 possibility of doing business? 23 24 25 A. Between anybody or speci fi cally with Mr . Trump, I assume? Q. We l l , l et ' s start with Mr . Trump . 237 1 A. There -- I can ' t remember when the 2 subject of t he Trump Towe r Moscow came up. It may 3 have been -- it may have been dur i ng t hat , because 4 it was another o f these very like spur - o f-the5 momen t t h i ngs when Emi n said , you know , sho ul d we 6 do a Trump Moscow? 7 But I th i nk i t may have been . I think 8 Mr . Trump may have even men ti oned th a t he was 9 doing a Trump Moscow e v en before t here were p l ans 1 0 to do a Trump Moscow with Emin . 11 So , yes , th a t was disc u ssed . 1 2 discussed. 13 Not That was t alked about . Outside o f that , no , I didn ' t hear any 1 4 oth e r business discussions at a ll. 15 Q. Okay . And when you say it was t a lked 16 about , what was said? 17 Who said it? A. I believe he did, Mr . Trump, may have 1 8 told either the crowd or some journalists after 1 9 that they were planning to do a Trump Moscow 20 tog e ther with the Agalarovs . 21 Q. Was t here any discussion o t her than Mr . 22 Trump telling either the crowd or j ourna lists that 23 he i n t ended to do a Trump Tower? 24 A. Not while I was t here , no . Any 25 d i scuss i o n o f bus i ness or any d i scuss i o n o f Trump 238 1 Tower , no to b o th o f those . 2 Q. To both . 3 A. Wh i le I was t here . 4 Q. Okay . 5 And was there any conversation abo u t b u s i ness wi t h anyone else f rom t he Tr ump 6 Organization? 7 A. There was no t , no . 8 Q. So tha t was t he only conversation you 9 heard about the possibi l i t y o f business involving 10 the Trump Organization in Russia? 11 A. At Nob u, yes . 12 Q. Was t here a discussion about the 1 3 possibi l ity o f the Trump Organization doing 1 4 business in Russia at any o t her time? 15 A. No t t hat I heard about doing anyt h i ng 16 specific , no . 1 7 gave t here . 18 I heard a press conference that he I heard t wo press con f erences . And he t alked about them having a great economy, how 1 9 he admired President Putin , and how he ho ped t o do 20 business . Bu t it was through -- he always 21 referred i t back t o let ' s hope we have a Trump 22 Tower . 23 24 He talked to journalists about it . And as I say, he ran wi th t hat be f ore there even was a plan to have a Trump Tower . It 25 was j ust an idea i n Emin ' s head , at that stage . 239 1 2 Q. And those press con f erences , that was Mr . Trump Sr . ? 3 4 A. Mr . Trump Sr . Trump Sr ., Aras Agalarov , Emin Aga larov . Q. And t hose we re a ll during t he Miss 5 6 Mos t of them were Mr . Universe pagean t? 7 A. Yes , they were . 8 Q. Just taking you back to t hat Exhibit 2 9 , 9 that 10 A. Yes . 11 Q. 12 -- you talked abou t with my colleague , I know we have asked you a lot o f questions . I just 1 3 want t o have yo u explain . 14 15 When you say there -- you wrot e t he s t a t ement " based on the bare facts I was given ," 16 exactly what were the bare facts that you were 1 7 g i ven? 18 A. So , t o the bes t o f my recollection, when 1 9 I spo ke to Emi n , he said t o me : 20 to se t up a mee ti ng . I wo uld l ike you A Russ i an a tt orney me t wit h 2 1 my -- a wel l- connec t ed Russ i an a tt o rney met wit h 2 2 my dad in his office , and she appears to have or 23 seems to have damaging i n f ormat i on on the 24 Democra t s and its candida t e , Hillary Clin t on . 25 I think it c o uld be usefu l t o the Trumps . And 240 He talked about the Trumps rather than 1 2 the campaign . 3 And he wou l d like u s to get a meet i ng . 4 To me , that was it. 5 started pushing f or more i nformat i on . That's when I But those would be the bare facts: 6 7 attorney , damaging info rmati o n, Democrats, Hillary 8 Clinton . Q. And when you say you s tarted pushing , 9 1 0 what you exactly did you push f or informat i on on? A. I sa id, we ll, who i s this person? 11 12 me. He said a Russian attorney . Tell I said , well, 13 I ' m pro bably g o ing t o be asked q uestions about 14 th a t. Well - connected . 15 Again , I don 't say for third time, but I 16 say, well - connected to what , the power grid? 17 Emin sa id, we ll-connected. 18 He and I had a kind of shorthand . And I knew 19 when it was -- I c o uld push all day and I wasn ' t 20 going to get an answe r, so I stopped pushing on 21 22 that one . And then I said , and this damaging 23 informa tion? 24 that says damaging. 25 You know , I can 't just send an email What is it? Doesn 't matter. All y o u n eed to d o is get the meeting . Ike will 24 1 1 coo rd i nate . 2 jus t need to ge t t he meeting . 3 Yo u d o n't even have t o attend . Yo u Q. So that's a ll he wou l d tell yo u a bout t he 4 damaging informat i on . 5 A. Yes . 6 Q. Was t here no men ti on of documents? 7 A. No , desp i te what I say in my ema i l . 8 MS . CLAFL IN: One qu i ck question . 9 BY MS . CLAFL IN: 10 11 Q. We have seen a number o f emails between you and Rhona Gr a ff. 12 A. Yes . 13 Q. Ho w did yo u c o me to be the go - between 1 4 b e t ween the Agalarovs and Rhona? 15 16 17 Why didn 't Emin reach o ut h imse lf o r Mr . Agalarov? A. I would like to answer that in two ways . I -- I -- beca u se I had been wit h Emi n 1 8 when we came up with t he idea f or Miss Universe 1 9 happening in Mo scow, he had nomi nated that I be 20 the po i nt person in the U. S . on the creative s i de 21 to i n t eract wit h t he Miss Univer s e Organiza ti on 22 and with anything as it related to Trump as a co - 23 owner o f it, Donald Trump . 24 And I ke Kaveladze wou ld deal wi t h the business and finance side of 25 it , and work closer wi th Aras Aga l aro v . 242 So because o f that , I had many 1 2 i nterac ti ons wit h Rhona Graff , on especially 3 Trump' s v i s it to Moscow and , i n f ac t, the 4 Agalarovs ' visit to Las Vegas where the contract 5 was s i gned . It was , you know , what time will he be 6 7 there? It was logistica l a lot. 8 9 What time wi l l he leave? I also had become qu ite friendly wit h her , so I would a lways 1 0 -- you know , that kind o f thing . And t he second thing th a t I really wo uld 11 12 like t o answer , many press have specula t ed t hat , 1 3 wel l, why would I , why wouldn ' t Aras pick up the 1 4 phone? Because he ' s a billionaire , and they don 't 1 5 p i ck up phones . And t he re ason people li ke me 16 have jobs is because I ' m the middle man . So if 17 somebody says no t o a req u est , t hey ' re no t saying 18 no t o them. 19 And t hat ' s the reason why . Q. So in your u nderstanding , do you know if 20 there were any instances in which either Aras or 21 Emin ca lled d ire c tl y or ema iled d ire c tl y , not 22 going through you? 23 24 25 A. I don 't know th a t, b u t I bel i eve it no t to be the case . MS . SAWYER : And then j ust one housekeeping 243 1 matter . 2 Are there any other responsive documents , commun i ca ti ons , materials , t hat have no t been 3 provided i n re spons e t o o ur requests? 4 5 MR . GAGE : thorough search . You ' re asking me? We have done a I mean , we can -- we ' ve done a 6 very t horough search . 7 MS . SAWYER : 8 MR . GAGE : Okay . We ' ve g i ven you wha t we ' ve got , 9 including tho se aud i o file s , 10 MS . SAWYER : Okay . f o r ex a mple. And if you could , again , 11 j u s t see -- I mean , we did ge t a number o f 12 communica ti ons between Mr . Kaveladze . 13 check aga i n f or the message that he bel i eves was Ple ase do 1 4 sen t dur i ng the mee ti ng on June 9t h , and any 1 5 o t hers . 16 17 And if you could also do the favor -it's some ti mes just hard , we u nders t and, and we 1 8 appreciate you ge tti ng t he documents t o us . It' s 1 9 hard t o see where the dates -- and t o make sure we 20 have t he full messages for t hose t exts . 21 22 23 24 25 If you cou l d get us t hat information, that would be helpful . MR . GAGE : We will check again , and we will do our best. MS . SAWYER : Okay . 244 1 MR . PRIVOR: 2 MR . GAGE : 3 We appreciate your time . And you should f ee l fr ee to be i n touch. 4 MS . SAWYER : Yes . 5 MR . PRI VOR: We a ppreciate yo u r time t oday . 6 7 We are going off the record at 3 : 25 -- back on the record . 8 MR . FOSTER : I just have a co uple questions . 9 MR . PRI VOR : Mr . Foster is go i ng t o t ak e 1 0 over questioning . 11 BY MR . FOSTER : 12 13 Q. So if you can t urn your at t ention t o Exhib i t 26 again , I wi l l pick up where my 1 4 colleague Hea t her l e ft off here . 15 I a m uncle a r. Is it possible f o r you t o 16 go back and get the date o f the messages on this 1 7 page? 18 A. I s it possible? 19 Q. Can you check your phone and get the date 20 off your phone? 21 22 A. Yes. I mean , I have checked my phone and apparently when I screenshotted it, there was no 23 date, b ut I will check t o see if t here i s a method 24 25 of ge tti ng t he da t e , yes . Q. If you sti l l have that in f ormation , you 245 1 can go get the date and have your lawyer 2 communica t e it t o us. 3 A. Yes, I will send you whatever I have on 4 the phone , absolutely . 5 Q. Thank you . 6 7 So again , t urning your a tte n ti on to t he first page of that exhibit , you say to Emi n : I 8 made sure to keep you and your f a t her out of t his 9 s t o ry, and they jus t u s ed my word acqua i ntance . 1 0 The lawyers accepted we were just acquaintances . 11 12 13 So who is t he " we " in t he we were just acquain t ances? A. Myse lf and Don Jr .' because i t ' s not 1 4 lawyers. 15 As I was saying , I believe it's an e rror in wr iti ng . It' s journa li s t s accept th a t we were 16 the acquaintances , when Don I think had even said 17 18 an acquaintance sen t him t he email . I' m saying th e re they accept that we are 19 acqua i ntances . 20 21 Q. Righ t. And in the previous message , you sa id, they just used my word " acqua i ntance ." 22 A. Right . 23 Q. And you put t hat in quotes . 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. So why were you anxious to characteriz e 246 1 your re l ationsh i p wi th Do n Jr . as j ust 2 acq u a int ances , as oppos ed to some t hing e lse? 3 A. I d o n 't know . I don 't kno w. 4 Q. And just so I understand your testimony 5 about the nex t t ext in reference t o lawyers , are 6 you saying t hat you were no t having communica ti ons 7 wi th Do n Jr . ' s l awyers around this time , that this 8 wasn 't a referenc e t o your tr y i ng to convince Don 9 Jr. ' s l awye r s that yo u and Do n Jr. were jus t 1 0 acquaintances? 11 A. I believe I never had t hat conversat i on 1 2 with his lawyers, no . 13 Q. Are yo u and Do n Jr . mo re than j ust 1 4 acq u a int ances? 15 A. No . 16 acquaintances . As I say, a t best , we are Based on the number of 17 interactions we have ever had , we a re, at bes t, 18 acquain t ances . 19 MR . FOSTER : I d o n't have anyth i ng else . 20 Th anks . 21 BY MS . SAWYER : 22 Q. Well , 23 24 25 just to follow up on that , Emin responds t o you and says a wesome . Why wou l d t hat be awesome for him t o have you portray your re l ationsh i p wi th the Trumps as 247 1 just acquaintances? 2 3 A. I don 't know . don ' t I mean , it' s his word. know . 4 Q. And you didn ' t ask him? 5 A. Apparently not . 6 7 8 9 BY MR . FOSTER : Q. Do you have any fin anc i a l A. Financia l re l a tionships, no. Q. He has never paid you? 11 A. Don Jr .' no. 12 Q. You never paid him? 13 A. No . 14 MR. 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 relationship with th e Trumps or with Don Jr.? 10 15 I PRIVOR: We wi l l Thank you for your time tod ay . go off the record . It i s 3 : 30. [Whereupon , the proceedings were adjourned a t 3:30 p . m.J Review of the December 15, 2017 Robert Goldstone Interview Transcript The transcript must be read in the Senate Judiciary Committee, room SD-164. The reviewer may take notes. 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