05 0615 Office of the Attorney General Terry State of Arizona Attorney I May 22, 2003 Lalo Pacheco re: Orson William Black Dear Mr. Pacheco: Enclosed please ?nd a certi?ed copy ofprints and photographs of Orson William Black. I am sending these to you at the Noriega. Please let me know if I can provide anything further. I can be reached at Thank you for your assistance. Sincerely, Norma B. Martens 1775 West Washinc?on. PhC-?airt. Arizona 85001-2926 . mum en? 542.3881 - Fax 60AGQ030001 33/15/209: 19:15 4999993939989 Fr}? 92:: 5.1 Los Angeles, California, a 15 de Marzo de 2004 Procuradurla General de la Rop?blica ARLA I 601 I O4 Agregaduna Regional Los Anoelea. California ASUNTO: ORSON WILLIAM BLACK JR. Delltos Sexuales en agravio de menor En alcance a la conversaci?n telefonica sostenida con personal de esta Agregaduri?a Regional relatlva a la localizacl6n del reclamado de la justlcia de los EEUU ORSON WILLIAM BLACK, JR., quien se encuentra de manera ilegal en nuestro pals, me permito comunicar a usted que Ias autorldades de la Procuraduri?a General del Estado de Arizona nos Informaror? conocimiento de que este sujeto esta perfectamente localizable en la En este sentido, nos fue lnformado que el dla de ayer esta persona comlo en el restaurante prOpiedad de Lorraine Jones, al que se han hecho referencia en nuestras comunicaciones anteriores. De igual rma el dia de ho el fugitivo recibio una llamada telefonlca de Utah al que muy probablemente se encuentre localizado en el ili al ue estan registrados tanto ese m'Jmero de tel?fono como el Finalmente, se tiene conocimiento de que su se unda tercera esposa vive en una casa ?inconfundible? que se localiza en Se ?eta de ?53 amarilla, de dos pisos en la que tambi n_ pu iera encontrarse. ATENTAMENTE EFECTIVO. EL AGREGADO LIC. ENRIQUE EBA PEDA VAZQUEZ. LIC. ALEJANDRO FLORES. EH8. MIGUEL ANGEL GONULEZ FELIX LIC. DE LA UC. FERNANDO REDENDXI WON 1"199-16-2884 89:22 E11 STATE OF ARIZONA OFFICE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL 3 FACSIMILE . DATECOMPANY NUME: . . I: do no: 5:ch: all pages. 1, We ?11? rust-mime pagcs LnClur?ng this cover sheetpicasc call immedianety, - . . NUMBER . . 5 . . TELEPHONE 1?3? MESSAGECIFDESLREDFROM: . - - ?(in .a .5. i -l . CONFLD ENTLKUTY This facsimile: canw infamman may 1'50 E3: [?5197 'thChu Wand-Cd Only For ch: us: of the :ddc:ss(s) (uracil man. {f'jou I15: M16 {Mc?d?li? o-C' acci?cd Ch? arw disscminncio; or coo-fin; ac?chxs facsimikc. or ch: ukmg of my Eaten istuacz 0:45: Wand: . (ha calccoc?qd ill?ormiuon m'uv he, simczl'r prohibit?.21. {fyou hr?: auxin-A {his I I w. abcvs. wilt-9.: u: the - 2.10:: (2.2??le LC u: -- immCdiliEW (zlzg'ncn: 1m: (?12.12. :35: ncci?} u: - DE. CHIHUAHUA . . PROCURADURIAGENERAL - . -: . Chihuahua, Chih., a 24 de Mayo del 2004. - y" Por medlo del presente, Ie comunico que se recibio el 7 de mayo del ano en curso, diverse documentacion en esta Procuraduria General de Justicia del Estado, mediante los cuales Ia C. Norma B. Martens, de la O?cina del Gobernador del Estado de Arizona, Estados Unldos de Norteam?rica, solicita la colabora'cion de esta Representacion Social, a fin de que sea detenido puesto a disposicon de las autorldades migratorlas, la persona que Ileva por nombre ORSON WILLIAM BLACK, qulen cuenta con diversas ordenes de captura emitidas por Cortes del Estado de Arizona, se?alando que se encuentra lnternado ile almente en este pals. Asimismo a ecer se encuentra en anexando fotografia a color del fugitivo de re erencna. . Por lo anterior le solicito se sirva girar al personal a su digno cargo a efecto de que se aboquen a la localizacion puesta a disposicion de las autoridades migratorias a la persona mencionada, para su posterior entrega a las autoridades requirentes, informando directamente al funcionario del pais veclno de las gestlones realizadas. Sin otro particular por el momento, hago propicia Ia ocasion para enviarle un cordial saludo. ifs. ATENTAMENTE. SUFRAGIO EFECTIVO. NO REELECCION. $403ng EL SUB PROCURADOR . DEL ESTApdw-igigge? Ger-21mm- us JUSTICJA almost-Hm cam Arizona. c.c. . C. Norma B. Martens. O?cina del Gu'uernador d- Estado d- are su conocimiento. c.c.p. FEB 20 2004 20:41 p.2 Swear-53?? GENERAL DE LA REPUBLICA. .. AGENCIA FEDERAL DE INVESTIGACION. 5 DIRECCION GENERAL DE DESPLIEGUE - REGIONAL POLICIAL. DIRECCION DE ATENCION A . MANDAMIENTOS MINISTERIALES OHCIO No. ASUNTO: EL QUE SE INDKZA. M?xico, D.F., 20 de enero de 2004 1ER. sua- CMDTE. RUBEN HERNANDEZ ESPARZA Hago referencia al o?cio de fecha dieciseis de enero de dos mu cuatro. del cual se agrega sus anexos. ban Ze eda V?z uez. stados Unidos de Norte America. mediante el cua so 101 a se con?rme Ia ubucaczon e. nacional norteamericano ORSON WILLIAM BLACK, JR. probable responsable de la comisi?n de los delitos de conducta sexual con un menor conspiracion Dara Demeter el delito de conducta sexua?. con un menor. Derivado de lo anterior. se la instruye para que gire instrucciones a quien corresponda a efecto de que se avoque a} cumplimento de lo sotic'rtado? ndo en consideracion que 1a persona ames mencionada podria encontrarse en la an un restaurante propiedad de Lorrame ones: informando ios resultados obtenidos a esta Direccion en un plazo no mayor a setema dos horas. Sirve de apoyo fundamenlo a lo antes expuesto, Io prescrito en los articu'l?os 21 de la Constituci?n Politica de Ios Estados Unidos Mexicanos. 4 fracci?n i. Apartado A, 20 fraccion l. inciso a) de la Ley Orga?nica de la Pro E?a General de la RepUinca 22 62 de su Reglamento. ?j/cuaadt Sin otro Padicylar. aprovecho la onunidad para reI1-%rle Ias seguridades de mi conSideraCi?n- . . .. i 1? CIDN. JAN 2 7 $2559 . ?.Tos MINISTERIALES SE . AGENCVGARCIA.- DP. . - ISTEBAN ZEPEDA vkonEL c.c 9. con.- NGMIJ OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL TERRY GODDARD STATE OF ARIZONA ATTORNEY GENERAL 16 encro de 2004 Lic. Enri ue E. Zepeda V. Lic. Enri me E. 26 eda V. Hago referencia a nuestro reunion en mi o?cina el dia 13 del presente mes, por medio del cual Ud. pidio mas informacion sobre el ubicacion dc ORSON WILLIAM BLACK, ciudano de los Estados Unidos, quien se busca como fugitivo a la ley en Arizona. En ese reunion, 1e present? con photos, huelgas digitales copias del orden de arresto contra el nombrado. do que BLACK se encucntra en la un restaurante de la propiedad de ompa?ia de Robery Stubbs, Beth Stubbs, orrame ones. Rose Marie Stubbs Barlow su esposa Amy Black. Adem?s, es posible que BLACK se encuentra a dando con la construccic?m de un con ylomerado de residencias Mormones en ?Seg?n nuestro informante, algunos individuos en el grupo se encuentran armados. Sin embargo, si llcgase el caso de necesitar nuevamente su valiosa ayuda lc hare llegar mi peticion. Sin otro pa?icular, aprovecho la oportunidad para reiterarle la seguridad de mi atenta distinguida consideracion. Lic. A Paulino F0 tes Puchi -CDMM.. Mum TIME 12:93 MODE I 5510? 121 (31 8 E23 FILE NO. STN NO. 9889 STRTIOH PQGES 901 m. 802.4302 99:98:OFHCE OF THE: ATTORNEY GENERAL 5 TERRY GODDARD STATE or ARIZONA GENERAL 2 FAX Cover Sheet i DATE: January 16, 2004 TIME: 9:FAX: . 5 COMPANY: PGR LA i i We are including (two) pages, including this cover sheet. If you do not receive all pages, please call immediately. FROM: Adri?n Fontes FAX: 5 PHONE: i MESSAGE: El original 58 envfa por correoBACKGROUND ORSON WILLIAM BLACK, IR., DOB gt 510, 185, Bro, Hair Bro, allegedly using the name LLOYD BLACK, has been charged with Counts 1 and 3: Conspiracy to Commit Sexual Conduct with a Minor; Counts 2, 4, and 5: Sexual Conduct With a Minor. In March 2003, BLACK allegedly left the United States and rmation obtained indicates that members and children of his family. . (f1 C: On this date, June 20, 2003, I received the following informatiOn. ORS ON WILLIAM BLACK, Jr, is residing on the outskirts of in a Mexican residence. -He is still gomg by the name LLYOD BLACK. He spends a lot of time in at a restaurant run by LORRAINE JONES An upcoming ?city council meeting? ?will determine if BLACK will be allowed to live 1n either? The following individuals have been seen with BLACK: ROBERTA BETH ROSE MARIE STUBBS and on occasion, his legal wife AMY BLACK. SA ""me 5/90/le AG000008 On this date, June 20, 2003, I received the following information. ORS ON WILLIAM BLACK, Jr, is residing on the outskirts of in a Mexican residence. 'He is still going by the name LLYOD BLACK. He spends a lot of time in? at a restaurant run by LORRAINE JO g? will determine if BLACK will be allowed to live in eitW The following individuals have been seen with BLACK: ROBERTA BETH ROSE MARIE STUBBS and on occasion, his legal wife AMY BLACK. AG000009 STATE OF ARIZONA .. OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL TERRY GODDARD Attorney General FACSIMILE COVER SHEET DATE: June 20, 2003 TO: ATTN: LOUIS NORIEGA FACSIMILE NUMBER: We are transmitting 2 pages, including this cover sheet. If you do not receive all pages, please call immediately. FROM: NORMA MARTEN FACSIMILE NUMBER: TELEPHONE UMBER: MESSAGE: PLEASE DELIVER IMMEDIATELY TO LOUIS NORIEGA CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This facsimile contains information which may also be legally privileged and which is intended only for the use of the address(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination or copying of this facsimile, or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this telecopied information, may be strictly prohibited. If you have received this facsimile in error, please notify us immediately by telephone and return the entire facsimile to us at the above address via the US. Postal Service. case ?7 7 I Page. 1 -l From: Rene Luna To: Fontes, Adrian Date: 4/15/04 Subject: Orson William Black case Norma Martens called me today and advised that the governor's of?ce recently did a favor for the governor of Chihuahua and Chihuahua appears willing to reciprocate the favor. Norma thinks this is a good time to ask them to assist with the Black deportation and i agree with her. Today, I am providing Norma with an info packet on the Black case,i.e., arrest warrant, indictment, photograph and last known location info which she will be providing to Chihuahua next week. Based on this new development, I believe we should postpone our trip to Chihuahua for at least one week to allow them to receive the info packet from Norma. This will then pave the way for us to make our trip if Chihuahua authorities are not able to locate Bla will also give us a good law enforcement contact to assist us in future cases. I also remembered thaHDetective Rico Fragoso had mentioned needing some assistance from Chihuahua on a case. i contacted Rico and he is going to E-mail me the info so we can give it to Norma and she can incorporate it with the Black info to send to Chihuahua. Norma has already agreed to do this. AG000011 'U?f . ?if? . .. STATE OF ARIZONA OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL Ea! EQV 3 git/0y TO: d?i?L? . w, my COMPANY: FACSINLILE it . . ?W'e an: mag-aiding 1 pages, this cover sheet. If you do not mei'v'e all pages. . . f' 916.154: c111 Wadi-stew. - - . - . FROM: . t. 1 . f: NUMBER- . .2 l. . - TELEPHONE WNLBER: - - . MESSAGE (1F DESIREDCONFIDENTIAUTY NOTICE: This facsimile contain: informaciuu which may ?c l:gally gnv?eged mt which is intruded only for an use afth: named aha-II. ?you are nuctht: inundcd racipimt. you are hacby If ?(ind f-?flt My dissuminmioz: or copying OHM: hesimlle. or the u?mng afany ?(ion in eeli'mcc on mutant: (hi: z:l=copicd mrorm'mon. may hr: Strictly Ifyou have mi: acsimdc in nori?fy us" i; imm?ht?y by and mum cam: human: u: g: nu. ?hen: the US Pom! Same:- Wmoxfmmack - warm am we ma Montana 5336c] NDILULS 8386 'l-llaED N15 988- 371:! 68:68 La :68 NOISSIHSNUBL $80143?) 300? AG000012 *mmrmox 68:68 3411 mm BLUCI amen]: TERRY GODDARD OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL STATE OF ARIZONA ATTORNEY GENERAL March 19, 2004 Jaime Es arza VIA RE: State of Arizona Orson William Black Current efforts by our of?ce, the US Marshall?s Of?ceMexico, along with Mexican Immigration Of?cials, will hopefully result in the deportation or expulsion of ORSON WILLIAM BLACK from Mexico to the US. We expect this to occur in El Paso. This case is a high priority for our of?ce, and we would appreciate any efforts four of?ce can make to ensure that this individual is held under a very high bond if he is remitted to custody in your district. Our concern that Black may be released is justified by many factors including; a) his continuing fugitive status, b) his establishment of family and residences outside the US, 0) the dangerous nature of the crime charged against the defendant, d) our of?ce?s concem for the safety of the public which may come into contact with the defendant, e) the fact that when spotted recently in Mexico by US joumalists he ran and could not be located, and other factors that make him a very serious ?ight risk. Thank you for accepting the enclosed information re ardin0 ORSON WILLIAM BLACK. For your infomiation, I have included a copy of the I have also included ?ngerprints and a photograph. If better resolution of the photo 01? prints is required please notify me at? If at some point in the future, I may be of any assistance to anyone in the -Of?ce please do not hesitate to contact me at the phone number below, or via email. Sine a? 7 . . - >4 .10 Adrian P. Fontes DRTE rm?ig-QBEM Max:101: THE 1613'? NUDE MEMORY 16:35 16:37 FILE STN NU. CONN. FIBER NU. STRTIUN N0. PRGES 831 UK a 911/911 2113:8155STATE OF ARIZONA OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL I FACSIMILE cow: ER 51-11-351 DATE a 3 . . - 111v canCOMPANY 3; ?11151st 11111415- %2 .W: at: 111115111in i pagu. mclming this cover sheet If you do not mcci'Je 11!! gages, please can . FROM: 44ml} {Tm/'65 .. FACSIMILE - 'f . 1111211110111: NUMBE NESSAGE 11? 1355111213) - . - . h/(11? ,'"291 - NOTICE This fusumlc (011131.: whisk 611'] also ht legally Q?VIltzc-d ?131 {3 only far the us: of 111: :ddmsis] named abo 1c lfyou 1:1: nuc 1hr 1111:11ch 1cc1pi:111, you :11: 5 nati?cd (hat an 7 diascminncion or cooying a. ?this Resin-1.1: or the. ?king aha; 1:111:11 111 Human: and content: Chi: klccogmld infumadon m-uy be wiccl/ thtbu'd lfyou, ha we r:c:1 1:11 (1111 Facsimcle 111 ?for 01:11: ??57 1-111: 1: (?09 FEB 20 2004 20:41 . Procuradurla General de la Rep?bllca Agregadurfa Regional Los Angeles, California TRANSMISION DE FAX Los Angesesl 0a., 20 de febrero de 2004 PARA: c. ADRIAN DE: uc. ENRIQUE ZEPEDA VAZQUEZ 2 pagina(s) incluyendo {a car?tula. En atenci?n a nueslra conversaci?n telef?nica, te envic documento que se explica por si solo. Atentame AG000016 FEB 20 2004 20:41 . 00000000000000000 p.2 2 WW .01? PROCURADURIA GENERAL DE REPUBLICA. AGENCIA FEDERAL DE INVESTIGACION. DIRECCION GENERAL DE DESPLIEGUE REGIONAL POLICIAL. DIRECCION DE ATENCION A MANDAMIENTOS MINISTERIALES OFICIO No. ASUNTO: EL QUE SE INDICA. M?xico, D.F., a 20 de enero de 2004 Acmwumr DE RUBEN HERNANDEZ Hago referencia al o?cio de fecha disao'as?is de enero de dos mii cuatro. del cual se? agrega ia asi como sus anexos. suscrno Enn?que con?rme la ubicaci?n nacional norteamericano ORSON BLACK, JR. probable responsable de la comisi?n de Ios delitos de conducta sexual con un menor conspiracion para cometer eI delito de conducta sexual con un menor. Derivado de lo anterior. se Ie instruye para que gire instrucciones a quien corresponds a efecto de. que se avoque a1 cumplimento de lo solic?adnm We. mencionada podria encontrarse en en un restaurame propiedad de Lorraine Jones; informando Ios resultados obtem as a esta Direcci?n en un plazo no mayor a setema dos horas. Sirve de apoyo fundamenlo a lo antes expuosto, Io prescrito en los articul'os 21 de la Constitucion Politics de Ios Estados Unidos Mexicanos. 4 fracd?n I, Apartado A, 20 fraccion l, inciso a) 21 de la Ley Org?nica de lana General de la RepUblica. 22 82 de su Reglamemo. - . Sin otro parwar? aprovecho Ia onunidad para r'ene rie Ias seguridades de mi consideracibnma?a. -- cm. Asmara . A . 145 CESSLECELE: . - STATE OF ARIZONA OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS SECTION REPORT DATE WRITTEN BY AGENT: FEBRUARY 23, 2004 NUMBER: AGI 02?1249 CASE NAME: WILLIAM BLACK REPORT TYPE: INTERVIEW AGENT: R. GIBSON SUPERVISOR: PAGE 1 OF 1 ?On this date, February 23, 2004, I telephonically interviewed MIKE WATKISS, News -eporter at_ WATKISS advised as follows: On February 18, 2004, approximately 1200 hours, he and a cameraman, who is Hispanic, were in the state of Chichuahua, Mexico, lookin0 for an individual named ORSON BLACK, JR. After driving around the area of_Sonora, Mexico, with the cameraman asking questions about BLACK, they stOpped at a phone to contact sources in Arizona. At this point, they were unsuccessful in locating BLACK. WATKISS went to a small store to purchase a phone card when he literally bumped into a man who he believes was BLACK. The man ran through the store and out the back in an attempt to run from WATKISS. WATKISS along with his cameraman, attempted to catch the individual with no success. WATKISS stated that he ?rmly believes that the man who ran was ORSON WILLIAM BLACK JR. They were able to take a least two photos of the individual jumping a wall. The photos are not of good quality, but WATKISS advised that he would let this of?ce see the photos. WATKISS and the cameraman then went to the local police and asked for their assistance. They told WATKISS that they were not aware that BLACK was wanted by Arizona, but was aware of him being in their area. They did assist WATKISS in looking for BLACK, with negative results. WATKISS then went to the local radio station and talked to a female who advised that she knows of BLACK. WATKISS further advised that BLACK is ?living large? with two or three of his ?wives? and a 15 year Old who he is treating as a wife. AG000018 STATE OF ARIZONA . OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS SECTION REPORT DATE WRITTEN BY AGENT: JANUARY 26, 2004 NUMBER: AGI 01-0114 CASE NAME: CITY located close to cc: L. Reckart A. Fontes E. Lehner AG000019 DRTE mm TIME 12:23 MODE MEMORY 121.1 12183 STN NO. COW. QBRR NU. STRTIUN NO. DURQTICN 891 CR 8 - 902/802 130! ?30158 mum-4: OFFICE OF ma: ATTORNEY GENERAL . . TERRY GODDARD STATE or ARIZONA GENERAL FAX Cover Sheet 1 DATE: January 16, 2004 5 TIME: 9:30 am. i TO: COMPANY: 3' We ate including (two) pages, including this cover If you do not all pages, please call immediately. FROM: Adrian Fontes ?3 FAX: PHONE: i MESSAGE: El original 56 envia por corrco OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL TERRY GODDARD STATE OF ARIZONA ATTORNEY GENERAL 16 enero de 2004 Lie. Enri ue E. Ze eda V. Lic. linri ue E. Ze eda V. Hago referencia a nuestro reunio?n en mi o?cina el dia 13 del presente mes, por medio del cual Ud. pidio mas informaci?n sobre cl ubicaci?n dc ORSON WILLIAM BLACK, ciudano de los Estados Unidos, quien se busca como fugitivo a la ley en Arizona. En ese reunio?n, le present? con photos, huelgas digitales copias del orden de arresto contra el nombrado. in formaci?n indicando que BLACK se encuentra en hihuahua, Mexico en un rcstaurante de la propicdad de orrame . ones. tam ien se encuentra en la compa?ia de Robery Stubbs, Beth Stubbs, Rose Marie Stubbs Barlow su esposa Amy Black. i iruiando con la construcci?n de um I Segfm nuestro informants, a gunos individuos en el grupo sc cncuentran armados. Sin embargo, si llegase el caso dc necesitar nuevamentc su valiosa ayuda lc hare llegar mi peticion. Ademas, es posible quc BLACK se encuentra con lomcrado de residencias Mormoncs on Sin otro particular, aprovecho 1a oportunidad para rciterarle 1a seguridad de mi atcnta distinguida consideraci?n. Atentamente, - A iz?m Paulino F01 tes Puchi STATE OF ARIZONA . A OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL . - SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS SECTION . REPORT . . DATE WRITTEN BY AGENT: JANUARY 13, 2004 NUMBER: "01?0114 vx ifv Of weapons aregu weapons at the lbncaion a; CC: Laura Reckart Adrian Fontes - (info only) Emma Lehner (info only) Doug Lau (info only) I - - AG000022 'i OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR THE STATE OF ARIZONA SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS SECTION AGENT REPORT: AGI-01-0114 CASE: Colorado City INVESTIGATOR: Dave Kleinz (DOC) my DATE WRITTEN BY INVESTIGATOR: January 12, 2004 REPORT TYPE: Investigative SUPERVISOR: John On 01/05/2004, Case Agent Ron Gibson told me that he had information that high ranking members of the Fundamentalist LDS church that formerly were residents of Colorado City, Arizona had left Arizona. Gibson said his sources told him the former residents had moved to Mexico. Special Agent Gibson is aware that I have a documented Homeland Security source of information who would be able to substantiate his information. On 01/07/2004, I contacted my source in Mexico. I related the information as presented by Gibson. On 01/09/2004 source told me that there is a ?Mormon Compound? located a roximately onora, Mexico. The compound is on ?he local area is known a The source said there are several buildings being constructed in the area. The source would willing to go to the area 0 (1 take photographs. The source said there were members of the LaBaron family in area. CC: Laura Reckart Adrian Fontes(info only) Emma Lehner (info only) Doug Lau (info only) AG000023 Office of the Attorney General Terry Goddard State of Arizona Attorney General May 22, 2003 Lalo Pacheco re: Orson William Black Dear Mr. Pacheco: Enclosed please ?nd a certi?ed-copy ofprints and photographs of Orson William Black. I am sending these to you at the re nest of Luis Noriega. Please let me know if I can provide anything further. I can be reached ath Thank you for your assistance. Sincerely, MAW Norma B. Martens MQR- 16?2884 219: 22 P. 81 TSATE OF OFFICE THE GENEPAL Quay?? - . - 5 4g NAM COMP Am: i NU M259. . .. Lu cages. ., .w an mama-Liming pacts this shecL plans: call . 6W f- 2 FROM: )2 WM - . NUMBER . TELEPHONE-NUMBER: . i . . .- NESSAGE (If DESIREDla?o he kgal?w anViKc"?d and What . {my/2 .-. Ea scion CONFLDENTIALITY fwm?k an ndco'.? ?:c19i:nt.jl0u Lu: cc'cm 1 :?dcd a Mu [xF i USC Oflnd lddf:55( 5) (1&de be" If an; aC- can?t-?11?. (106?de EHV 0? CDOVUIE, Ch (Chm (uGSlm1:5; i I I a blt?Id [f 3 i (H dual 0 u: (EH3 (CLCCO ?ll I 1(\Qn by SC i- {l .L 993%: 9-- 1:2 'ch u: 5% immcha-izty by 3L1 m- 4 Tom Sheahan MOHAVE COUNTY Jim McCabe CHIEF DEPUTY SHERIFF OFFICE The attached copies are true and exact co ies of prints and photographs on, Orson William Black, on ?le with the Mohave County Sheriff? Of?ce. .w?l [datum/A?) Frances Edwards Records Clerk 316th 01f) Not??y Subscribed and sworn before me on this 21St day of May, 2003: OFFICEAL SEAL SP NDY EDWARDS .1 j, NOTARYPUBLIC- ARIZONA MOHAVE My Conn?. Exp'iz- 6532;): 20 2004 (0 gm?? ?g rm?, mwmm-mg AG000026 . ., ~AG000027 AG000028 STATE OF UTAH :1 DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC HEALTH CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH (7 :71? 3:340 0088 .ruc: or m: c. oouuTY ngp/M?a, 2. usual. ?name! 0! (Where 4m mother 0 CITY TOWN CITY. TOWN. OR LOCAT Z?xj?/ . 6. NAME OF - If not in Am ?red taddrgu) NOSPITAL 0R d. A0 OR 555 SCH-00L DIST d. IS- PLACE OF INSIDE CITY LIMITS l. is RESIDENCE. CITY YESD no I: firkTHER .- . IN-F 0:2qu 5 SIGNATU - I . 5:47? i/jjng/ CL - IF. TWIN OR TRIPLE. WAS CHILD BORN Dal?Emdad! {un?iontfi OTHER IAUdn-n In Ila. ?vinyl 0 5/ 15 .. . [Act (Air eAild 1 {final born ?(in on (A: dalcrh ??11 7 ?1 hnby 13o. ATTENDANT AT BIRTH 0.0. IN. DATE SIGNED 3. 27/5/ IS. 5 DATE RECD. BY LOCAL REG. 21.01??: on wmcu Gwen mm: Aoosn 5m i-evn 9419796) I: This is to certify that this is a trJe Copy-of the'ce?i under authority of section 26 2- 22 of the Utah code As Amended 5 7W . Date Issued: 8L 225811 teuou -. Barry Nangle DIRECTOR OF Vl TAL RECORDS ill 1 :1 fl )3 ile' iri' this office. This certified copy is issued I or r35: ?1?,4aoo. Orson William Black, Jr. Desc: 5'10", 185#, BR Eyes Adrien Fontes Special Agent Ron Gibson Special Agent Meg Pollard Wives: 1. Amy Barlow (DOB- - LEGAL WIFE 2. Claudia essop Zitting (DOB- 3. Rosie Stubbs a/k/a Rose Marie Barlow (DOB- :0 4. Roberta LeAnn Stubbs (DO- 5. Beth M. Stubbs (DOB - 6. Vashti M. Barlow (DOB - No Photo Available 7. Sally Beth Barlow - - No Photo Available May be traveling with: Rose Lacelle Stubbs (maiden name is Pledger) Desc: 220#, GY Hair, BR Eyes Drives Burgundy Dod Caravan (possibly a 1996 model) AZ License plateh AG000030 Other Vehicles Owned by Black or his wives: Description Voyager Minivan Dodge Van Honda Civic Honda Odyssey 2000 Honda Prelude reighlliner Motor Home 1995 Chevrolet License Plate AG000031 Laura Reckart - Colorado City Vital Records DuBois Rpt.wpd I Page 1] STATE OF ARIZONA OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS SECTION REPORT DATE WRITTEN BY AGENT: JULY 24, 2003 AGI 01-0114 CASE NAME: COLORADO CITY REPORT TYPE: INFORMATION FROM VITAL RECORDS AGENT: T. MCMILLION SUPERVISOR: PAGE 1 0F1 PAGE On July 22, 2003, I left a message for Esteban Sandoval at? regarding my need to obtain birth records relative n. He left a message for me to direct the request to Joann DuBois aW On July 24, 2003, twice spoke by phone with Joann DuBois relative to my request for birth records during the period 1997 to 2002 for any children born to Daniel Barlow and a woman by the last name of Steed, first name unknown. I described the information I needed and DuBois asked me to fax a letter to her attention requesting the .g information. ldid fax that request to her. During the subsequent conversation, DuBois said she looked up 31 records for births to Barlow during the period 1997 to 2002. She was able to locate only one record among these re?ecting the maiden name of the mother as Steed. That person?s name is Sally Jean Steed, dob -That child was born in Utah, so the original record would be with officials in that state. DuBois agreed to make available a copy of the information provided by Utah relative to this birth. /tm AG000032 [Laura Beckarl - Colorado City Doughierty.wpd__ . Page 1 . STATE OF ARIZONA OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS SECTION REPORT DATE WRITTEN BY AGENT: JULY 22, 2003 AGI 01-0114 CASE NAME: COLORADO CITY REPORT TYPE: INFORMATION FROM JOHN DOUGHERTY AGENT: T. MCMILLION SUPERVISOR: PAGE 1 0F1 PAGE On July 22, I spoke by phone twice for a total of about 5 to 10 minutes wit?? eporter John Dougherty relative to information he has learned abou I marriage of an un can be reached at deraie female to Colorado City mayor Dan Barlow, Sr. Dougherty He provided the following information: - oken with Lyman Dudson (Dudson), a former resident of ho has left the religion but whose former wif area an too ildren with her. Dudson now resides in Dudson?s son Todd William Dudson, is being prosecuted in Mohave County case number? According to Dudson, officials in Colorado City became interested in prosecuting his son for molesting his sister while a juvenile only after he became interested in romantically pursuing a young woman who . was part of the Barlow group. - According to Dudson, the practice of polygamy by the police and other officials is . common in the area. According to Dudson, about five years ago Dan Barlow, Sr., approximate age 65, took a 15 year old bride by the last name of Steed to be his 5th wife. The then 15 ear old is a dau hter of Walter Steed, the now deceased #Dougherty understands that several children have issued from this marriage and that Barlow, Sr. maintains only one house for all his families in Arizona. Joe Barlow also is alleged to have - married a 13 year old female. /tm AG000033 OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS SECTION STATE OF ARIZONA REPORT DATE WRITTEN: July 30, 2001 CASE NAME: Colorado City Uni?ed School District REPORT TYPE: Interview Dee Bateman NUMBER: AGENT: Richard F. Mauzngw? SUPERVISOR: T. McMillion 5WPAGE 10F 6 WITNESS INFORMATION: BATEMAN, Deloy ?Dee" Address: Work: On March 5, 2001, I spoke by telephone with Deloy ?Dee? Bateman regarding the af?liations of Colorado City Uni?ed School District administrators, faculty, and staff in order to identify potential instances of District employees being paid but not performing work. Bateman explained there are three groups involved in the Colorado City situation: 1. First Ward followers of the current ?prophet,? Rulon Ieffs. Rulon Ieffs is old and enfeebled, however, and his son, Warren Ieffs, runs the church in his father?s name. 2. Second Ward the ?Apostates,? centered primarily in Centennial Park, Arizona, who do not accept the leadership of Warren Ieffs in his father?s name. 3. Non?Believers former First or Second Ward members who no longer af?liate with either group. Bateman, a former First Ward member, is a non?believer. As for the group af?liations of District employees, Bateman a life-long Colorado City resident and former First Ward member identi?ed them as follows: First Ward: ALLRED, JEAN K. .ALLRED, RICHARD J. ALLRED, SUSAN BARLOW, ALICE B. BARLOW, ALVIN S. BARLOW, ANN A. BARLOW, BRIGHAM R. AG000034 REPORT TYPE: Interview - Dee Bateman July 30, 2001 Page 2 of 6 Pages BARLOW, JR., DANIEL BARLOW, DIANNE J. BARLOW, DONALD N. BARLOW, EDITH B. BARLOW, ELIZABETH A. BARLOW, JOHN T. BARLOW, JOSEPH I. BARLOW, KELLY T. BARLOW, KIMBALL D. BARLOW, LEE ANN B. BARLOW, MEADE J. BARLOW, NATHAN B. BARLOW, OLIVER B. BARLOW, OLIVIA D. BARLOW, RICHARD J. BARLOW, SANDRA M. BARLOW, SARAH A. BARLOW, SARAH F. BARLOW, STEVEN B. BARLOW, VALIANT Y. BARLOW, VANCE W. BARLOW, WINFORD J. BATEMAN, JR, DAVID R. BISTLINE, LYNDON R. BISTLINE, MARIA B. BISTLINE, JR F. LEE BLACK, MARTIN L. BLACK, VAUGHN M. BLACK, VEDA. COUNSIL, LITIA A. DARGER, COLEEN B. DARGER, DENNIS N. HOLM, DONNA ENID HOLM, ESTHER B. HOLM, JEANNIE B. HOLM, MARJORIE R. JESSOP, CLEA MARIE B. JESSOP, DOROTHY E. JESSOP, ELLEN B. JESSOP, EVELYN S. JESSOP, FERN L. AG000035 REPORT TYPE: Interview - Dee Bateman July 30, 2001 Page 3 of 6 Pages JESSOP, GLORIA W. JESSOP, GUY H. JESSOP, IRENE N. JESSOP, JEFFERY P. JESSOP, JOYCE W. JESSOP, KAREN JESSOP, LAURA S. JESSOP, MAE J. JESSOP, MARIE C. JESSOP, MARTIN HYRUM JESSOP, MARY S. JESSOP, RONALD R. Jessop, Tammy B. JOHNSON, CHRISTOPHER KIM JOHNSON, CONNIE JOHNSON, DANIEL B. JOHNSON, GRACE C. JOHNSON, GWENDOLYN B. JOHNSON, GWENDOLYN M. JOHNSON, MARY ELLEN B. JOHNSON, MILLICENT JOHNSON, SAMINA R. JOHNSON, VEDA B. JOHNSON, WARREN M. KAPCSOS, DIXON L. KAPCSOS, SHIRLEY A. NYBORG, NEIL T. PEINE, MALETA J. PIPKIN, GERALD A. PIPKIN, KATHALEEN C. POPE, DONNA L. REAM, BONNIE B. RICHTER, DONALD W. RICHTER-LELAND D. RICHTER, NORMA B. ROUNDY, J. DEE. ROUNDY, VIRGINIA J. SHAPLEY, JOANNE M. STEED, CHARLES STEED, ELIZABETH B. STEED, KLOE Y. STEED, LAWRENCE AG000036 REPORT TYPE: Interview - Dee Bateman AGI-01-0129 July 30, 2001 Page 4 of 6 Pages STEED, TRIXIELEE B. STEED, VERGEL K. STEWART, JOHN W. WILLIAMS, VALJA JEAN ZITTING, LUCIEANNA B. ZITTING, NITUMA B. ZITTING, RACHEL M. Second Ward: DOCKSTADER, DIANE B. DOCKSTADER, ELIZABETH H. DOCKSTADER NANCY B. HAMMON, ALICE H. HAMMON, AUDREY C. CAROL s. HAMMON, ELAINE H. HAMMON, ELIZABETH HAMMON, ELIZABETH C. HAMMON, JONATHAN L. HAMMON, LETA B. HAMMON, MARLYNE J. HAMMON, MELANIE B. HAMMON, NOLA HAMMON PAULINE HAMMON, SETH STEED, ZELPI-IA ANN TIMPSON, CAROL K. TIMPSON, DIANNE O. TIMPSON, ELDA MAE H. TIMPSON, ILENE R. TIMPSON, JENNIFER TIMPSON, C. TIMPSON, LEANNE D. TIMPSON, MARY TIMPSON, PAUL A. WAYMAN, M. WILLIAMS, MARGARET Z. ZITTINC, DANIEL N. ZITTING, HAZEL . ZITTING, LEAH H. AG000037 REPORT TYPE: Interview - Dee Bateman AGI-01-0129 Juiy 30, 2001 Page 5 of 6 Pages Non?Believers: BATEMAN, DELOY C. BATEMAN, VIRGINIA BLACK, CHARLENE R. DUTSON, MADRENE HAMMON, MAUREEN B. Unknown Af?liation: BARLOW, BETH D. BARLOW, CARLING BARLOW, ISABELL J. BARLOW, MARGARET BARLOW, MARSHA ANN BARLOW, MARTHA L. BARLOW, SARAH ELIZABETH BARLOW, SHERRIE W. BARLOW, VILATE C. BRINGHURST, LEROY B. CAWLEY, ANGELA CAWLEY, CONNIE R. CAWLEY, ROSE T. COOKE, RACHEL B. DIXON, JAN K. DOCKSTADER, ALYNE DOCKSTADER, ANNE S. DOCKSTADER, CLAUDIA K. DOCKSTADER, SARAH A. DUTSON, APRIL D. GILBERT, MARTHA HAMMON, ALICE MARIE HAMMON, ALMA HAMMON, LILLIAN HAMMON, MARIA HAMMON, NATALIE HAMMON, PRISCILLA HAMMON, RICHARD S. HAMMON, SUSAN z. HAMMON, VIOLET J. HAMMON, WILMA HAMMON, YVONNE AG000038 REPORT TYPE: Interview - Dee Bateman AGI-01-0129 July 30, 2001 Page 6 of 6 Pages HAMMON, YVONNE D. JESSOP, EDSON P. JESSOP, PARLEY RAYO JESSOP, SHERILYN H, JESSOP, WARREN S. JOHNSON, JOHN RAY KNUDSON, CALLIE MACKERT, AMANDA STUBBS, EVELYN W. TIMPSON, SUSIE TIMPSON, VICKI WILLIAMS, CARMEN WILLIAMS, CAROL E. WILLIAMS ISABELLE WILLIAMS, LUANN H. AG000039 STATE OF ARIZONA OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS SECTION REPORT DATE WRITTEN BY AGENT: OCTOBER 4, 2001 NUMBER: AGI 01-0114 CASE NAME: COLORADO CITY ?32 REPORT TYPE: INTERVIEW - PENNIE RAE STUBBs AGENT: R. GIBSON r/ SUPERVISOR: PAGE 1 OF 2001, I tele honicall interviewed PENNIE RAE telephone? STUBBS advised as follows: She made contact with TAMARA PHELPS mother during the week of September 17, 2001. PHELPS mother would not give her a phone number to contact TAMARA. She advised that she would give TAMARA a hone number to reach PENNE. PHELPS mother advised her that PENNE resides ind She had problems and was being helped by some agency in? to get an apartment and a job. As of this date, PENNE has not been contacted by TAMARA. She will attempt to recontact PHELPS mother. PENNE advised that I should not attempt to contact PHELPS mother as she is a part of Ward 1 and would not talk to me. PENNIE further advised that she has three sisters living with ORSON WILLIAM BLACK, R., as wives. Those sisters are ROSE MARIE, ROBERTA LEANN and BETH. She stated that BETH had a miscarriage sometime within the last year. As far as she knows, BETH has not had any children. She further advised that AMY BARLOW is legally married to BLACK an that the house that BLACK, JR and the others live in belong to another woman who lives with him as a wife. The house is i AG000040 STATE OF ARIZONA OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL 1 SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS SECTION REPORT DATE WRITTEN BY AGENT: NOVEMBER 9, 2001 NUMBER: AGI 1-0114 CASE NAME: COLORADO CITY REPORT TYPE: INTERVIEW - PENNIE RAE STUBBS AGENT: R. GIBSON SUPERVISOR: jg/ PAGE 1 OF 1 nically interviewed PENNIE RAE STUBBS, - ENNIE STUBBS is the sister of ROBERTA LEANN STUBBS ROSE MARIE STUBBS and BETH MSTUBBS celestial wives of ORSON WILLIAM BLACK JR. PENNIE advised as follows: She has not made contact with CARLA PHELPS, the mother of TAMARA PHELPS, since September. At that time, she had asked CARLA PHELPS to contact TAMARA to see if she would contact this of?ce. I asked if she objected to me contacting CARLA PHELPS. She did not, but believed that CARLA would not tell me anything. PENNIE further advised that ORSON WILLIAM BLACK, JR., resides at W- She further stated- that legal wife, AMY BL an another celestial wife, CLAUDIA ZITTING resides in the same house with him. ROBERTA LEANN STUBBS, lives on the property in a mobile home. She does not know where BETH M. STUBBS and ROSE MARIE STUBBS reside. The property allegedly belongs to ZITTING. When asked if BETH STUBBS had any children, she stated that she had been pregnant within the last fourteen (14) months, but had an early miscarriage. She does not know if she has gotten pregnant since that time. PENNIE stated that any information that she may have on BLACK is second hand. She does believe that he would do ?anything? to stop us from talking to any ofher sisters. He does have a history of domestic violence and is known to be a part of the ?big boys? in Colorado City. She stated that the term ?big boys? refer to the leaders of the Colorado City/Hilldale area. She has been told that he has a meth lab within the Utah border of Colorado City. She does not have any address. The meth supposedly is sent out of the Colorado City/Hilldale area. AG000041 STATE OF ARIZONA OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS SECTION REPORT DATE WRITTEN BY AGENT: JANUARY 14, 2002 NUMBER: AGI 01-0114 CASE NAME: COLORADO CITY REPORT TYPE: INTERVIEW - RUTH M. STUBBS- AGENT: R. GIBSON SUPERVISOR: PAGE 1 OF 2 14 2002 RUTH M. STUBBS, dob as interviewed at- STUBBS resides with her. sister, PENNE PETERSEN and can be at Prior to December 9, resided at the home of RODNEY HOLM. Present at the interview was SA PATTY RUSTENBURG. PETERSEN was present for approximately ten (10) minutes and then left the room. She came back approximately The interview took place from to STUBBS adVised as follows: On anua In July 1998 STUBBS met with RULON JEFFS inHildale, Utah, to get permissmn to marry CARL COOK She was escorted by RODNEY HOLM- STUBBS was an apostate and needed someone to go with her to See JEFFS. In a subsequent meeting, JEFF decided that STUBBS would be placed with HOLM, not On December 111998, a ?mamage ceremony took place in the home of WARREN JEFFS, which 18 in Hildale Utah The only people at the ceremony were WARREN JEFFS, RULON JEFFS FRED JESSOP, SUSIE I-IOLM, WENDY BARLOW, RODNEY HOLM and STUBBS. WARREN JEFFS Conducted the ceremony, which placed STUBBS with HOLM as his third ?wife?. :She did not want this to happen, but was persuaded by her sister SUSIE to become third ?wife?. SUSIE is legally married to HOLM, with WENDY BARLOW being his second ?wife?. At the time of theplacernent', STUBBS was sixteen years old. birthday is? She stated that intercourse with HOLM occurred that same night, December 1 1, 1998. It took place at the Mark Twain Hotel, in H-ildale, Utah. In January, 1999, she became aware that She was pregnant. When asked if intercourse took place in other than Utah, She stated yes. In January 1999, WLM had intercourse at the businessof GREG HOLM, RODNEY brother, in further stated that on at least three occasions, in 1999, she and HOLM had intercourse at the business of GREG HOLM. Twice when She was Sixteen and once when she was seventeen. On October 5, 1999, she gave birth to MARANDA ROSE HOLM. She stated that the father is RODNEY HOLM and that she got pregnant when she was sixteen (16). She further stated that she had another child, WINSTON HOLM, on October 16, 2000, when she was seventeen AG000042 Report to Colorado City File I4 Interview - RUTH M. STUBBS January I4, 2002 Page 2 of2 RODNEY HOLM is the father of that child also. Both children were born in Hildale, Utah. She is now pregnant with her third child by HOLM. She does not know how far along she is. She has not seen a doctor as of this date. When asked about any other young females being placed or ?married?, she stated that the normal time frame for ?marriage? is between the ages 16 -18. She does not know any females who were placed or married at a younger age. She did state that if they, the females, did not want to get married or placed as a sister wife, theyjust said so, and they would be left at-the home of their father. STUBBS stated that her sister, ROBERTA STUBBS, was placed with WILLIAM BLACK, JR, at a young age. BLACK is seen as a prophet by some in Colorado City, Arizona. In December 1998, she spoke to ROBERTA and found out that she had given birth. ROBERTA informed her that the father was WILLIAM BLACK, IR. At the time of the birth, ROBERTA was approximately sixteen (16) Since then, she has not been able alk to ROBERTA. ROBERTA lives 1n a motor home on property, which is'inm?BLACK has four to ?ve ?wives? residing with him on his property to include another of her sisters, BETH. She does not believe BETH has had any children by BLACK. She did hear that BETH: had a miscarriage, but does not know the time frame. STUBBS furnished a photo taken on the date of her? marriage? ceremony In the photo was WARREN IEFFS, RULON IEFFS, FRED IESSOP, WENDY BARLOW, SUSIE STUBBS, RODNEY HOLM and RUTH STUBBS. She also furnished a copy of Hildale Maternity Home Record of Birth for MARANDA ROSE HOLM . STUBBS advised that 1f requ1red she Would testi to the fact that HOLM is the father of her children and that she had intercourse with HOLM 1n at least three occasions when she was sixteen and seventeen. /rg l4cc\Rutl1 AG000043 STATE OF ARIZONA OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS SECTION REPORT DATE WRITTEN BY AGENT: December 31, 2014 LF NUMBER: CR2003-0239 CASE NAME: Orson William Black Jr. REPORT TYPE: Supplemental Information AGENT: P.J. Janik - SUPERVISOR: Michael Edwards PAGE 1 OF 1 Beginning in April of 2014, started to receive a series of'telephone calls from a Mr. Jethro BARLOW, a long time established community member of the Short Creek area regarding Orson William BLACK Jr. Orson BLACK Jr. is a fugitive from justice charged with several counts of sexual conduct With a minor and believed to be residing In Mexico. it should be nOted that Mr. not an attorney, but considered a respected member of the Short Creek community? that is often contacted by c0mmunity members regarding information they Would like to provide or reCeive assistance on. in addition, Mr. BARLOW is an employee for the Fiduciary of the United Effort Plan (UEP) and has cooperated on numerous inquiries from this agent. - Mr. BARLOW inquired about the options of Orson BLACK Jr. returning to the United States. Mr. BARLOW would not acknowledge that he spoke Orson BLACK Jr, but only in generalities. Mr. BARLOW did relate that he believes Orson still resides in Mexico, but has express through mutual acquaintances an interest in returning to the United States to be with family. In addition to briefing my superVisor, I also briefed AAG C. who would be handling this case and provided her an Update. of these inquires. explained to me the circumstances surrounding'this-case in order to continue forward. Since then I have either met or had telephone calls with Mr. BARLOW on several occasions regarding some options for Orson BLACK Jr. to consider should Mr. BARLOW have any direct or indirect contact with him. The last conversation had with Mr. BARLOW was on December 15th, 2014. At that conversation, there was no additional information where Orson BLACK Jr. may be residing or his interest in returning. AG000044 pdate.doc STATE OF ARIZONA OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS SECTION REPORT DATE WRITTEN BY AGENT: August 2, 200'2 NUMBER: AGI 01-0114 CASE NAME: COLORADO CITY REPORT TYPE: INTERVIEW - PENNIE RAE STUBB . AGENT: R. SUPERVISOR: PAGEIOF On August 1, 2002, I received a tele hone call from PENNIE RAE STUBBS, - _lephon? STUBBS advised as follows: She had recently received information pertaining to Bountiful, BC. WINSTON BLACKMORE, the Bishop in Bountiful had been removed from power. The reason, was that a young girl named VANESSA ROEBUK who was to be ?married? to WARREN JEFFS, had left the Hilldale Utah/Colorado City, AZ area to avoid the ?marriage?. She had gone to Canada and asked for help. WINSTON BLACKMORE took the young girl in. When WARREN found out, he had WINSTON removed from power. As far as she is aware, VANESSA is still in Canada. She further heard that WARREN has been preaching ?blood atonement? toward VANESSA. She did not advise where the information came from. However, she would contact me is additional information is obtained. AG000045 STATE OF ARIZONA OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS SECTION REPORT DATE WRITTEN BY AGENT: MARCH 17, 2003 NUMBER: AGI 02-1249 CASE NAME: ORSON WILLIAM BLACK, JR REPORT TYPE: AGENT: R. GIBSON SUPERVISOR: gilt PAGE 1 OF 3 On March 10 2003 at a roximatel 1815 hours durin adrive-b of the residence at- Tom Welch and Andrew Rubalcava observed a dark colored minivan (AZ license driving out of this residence. This residence belongs to Orson William Black, Jr. (Black). The driver appeared to be a white female with an at least 4 passengers. John Malkiewicz, Francisco Arvizu, Kathleen Kempley and I alon with Welch and Rubalcava followed this vehicle and observed it pull into and park a_ This residence - belongs to Amy Black, Black?s wife. We were unable to obtain any further description of the vehicle?s occupants. On March 1 l, 2003, approximately 0500 hours, SA Kempley and I began surveillance at the SA Kempley took photographs of the residence and vehicles. The following vehicles were on the property: a green Plymouth V0 a er a white Dodge Caravan a light colored Honda sedan and a greenish-blue Honda Odyssey Simultaneously, Welch, Rubalcava, Malkiewicz, and Arvizu began surveillance at the _residence. Arvizu and Malkiewicz took photographs of the exterior of the residence. At approximately 0805 hours, SA Malkiewicz while identifying himself as a police officer, knocked several times on the door of the _esidence, but received no response. The followin vehicles were on the property: a white Chevrolet pickum a white utility a white Dodge picku_ and a ite ymout oyager minivan At 0810 hours, Rubalcava-and Welch observed a white male walk to the edge of the driveway next to Rubalcava and Welch made contact with the male who identified himself as Abraham Zitting (Abraham). Abraham said that he had not seen Black in a few weeks. Abraham also said that he did not hear any knocking on the door prior to leaving for the bus. He agreed to go inside and ask his mother to come outside and talk to Rubalcava and Welch. While Abraham went inside, Rubalcava and Welch saw three additional males ranging in age AG000046 Report lo WILLIAM BLACK. JR File AGI 024249 March 17,2003 Page 2 of 3 from 13-16 arrive at the bus stop. The school bus arrived and the three males boarded the bus. Rubalcava and Welch held the bus for Abraham, who came out of the house after a few minutes. As Abraham ran to the bus, he said that his mom will be right out. At approximately 0820 hours, Claudia Zitting (Zitting) spoke with Welch and Rubalcava. Zitting said she is not married to Black. She rents the house from Black, who is the property owner. She said that Black was not in the house and she had not seen him in a while. Zitting provided her telephone number and agreed to try to contact Black through friends. Zitting requested that any Special Agent call her instead of knocking on the door because of the dif?culty she has of hearing the door. - SA Malkiewicz and I arrived at the?esidence a few minutes later. Zitting told us that Black was not at the residence. She stated that she did not know where he was. SA Malkiewicz told her we were not there to arrest anyone. He told her that we were attempting to He provided Zitting with cell phone numbers and asked her to have Black contact us. At approximately 0915 hours, SA Malkiewicz and I contacted Amy Black (Amy),at the residence. We asked Amy if she knew where Black was. She said he was working, but she did not know where. We told her we are looking for Black as we need to talk to him. She wanted to know why we wanted to talk to him since he lived in Utah. We told her that we had papers- and that we wanted him to meet us at the Arizona/Utah border and accept them. She told us to talk to Todd MacFarlane, a Utah attorney that was present during previous interviews of the victims. She was told that this was a Arizona investigation and that MacFarlane would not be able to represent Black in Arizona. We provided Amy with cell phone numbers and asked her to have Black contact us. At approxima and I met with Marshal Sam Roundy and Sgt. Clark Cook with the Of?ce. We advised Roundy that the Arizona Attorney General?s of?c We requested his assistance in locating Black. He stated that he had not seen Black in quite awhile. However, he said he would put out the word through his deputies to find him. At approximately 1100 hours, Roundy contacted me and told me that Black? brother had been contacted and the brother suggested that we contact MacFarlane. The brother suggested that MacFarlane could have Black meet us to I then contacted MacFarlane. He wanted to know why we wanted to meet with Black. I told him that we had? He wanted to know what?was for and I explained the charges to him. At that time, he stated that he would be back in touch with us after talking to his client. He later contacted me and told me that Black was going to hire an Arizona attorney. MacFarlane then asked me to provide him with the details of the investigation. I informed him that I could not disclose that information. I told him that if Black he would know the details and co orney. MacFarlane advised me that he would represent the victims, but would for them. AG000047 Report to ORSON WILLIAM BLACK IR File 02-l249 March 17. 2003 Page 3 of 3 At approximately 1445 hours, Malkiewicz and Arvizu again visited with Amy at the residence to inquire whether she had any ?irther information regarding Black. She did not provide any further information. At a roximatel 1500 hours, Malkiewicz and Kempley visited with Claudia Zitting at th*esidence Zitting said she had talked to Black and told him we were looking for him. She then stated that she had spoken with Black?s attorney and told him we were looking for Black. Surveillance continued at both residences until late evening of March 11, 2003. On March 12, 2003, surveillance was again established at both residences at 0500 hours. All vehicles previously observed at both residences were still present and did not appear to have been moved. Kingman, AZ., requesting that th I advised him that since February 28, 2003, numerous attempts were made both the Mohave County Sheriff? 3 O?ice and the Arizona Attorney General?s Of?ce to locate hBlack. All of the attem ts ?had been unsuccessful. Vehicles registered to Black were present at the ?esidence, ich led us to believe that Black ma be resent at that residence. Based on the above information Zack was able to obtain At a roximatel 1340 hours, J. Frazier attempted to Frazier? 3 request, 5 Malkiewicz, Arvizu, Kempley, Rubalcava, Welch and I assisted him. Upon arrival, we observed that all of the vehicles registered to Black were still at the residence. Upon further observation, we noted that all of the windows were blacked out with either black plastic or wood. Deputy Frazier knocked on the front door and announced his presence. For approximately 15 minutes, the door was either knocked on or FRAZIER walked around the house announcing his presence with negative results. He then took pictures of the vehicles and their license plates and left his business card on the east door. We then departed from the premises at approximately 1355 hours. At approximately 1405 hours, w?t th residence. Zitting met us at the front door and stated Black was not present. SA Malkiewicz asked for and received verbal consent from Zitting to search the premises. Zitting led us through the multistory house as we conducted our search. We did not ?nd Black during our search of the residence. We thanked Zitting for her cooperation and le? the residence at approximately 1425 hours. A?er departing from the sidence, I met with Sgt. Cook again. I advised him that there was now nd again asked for his assistance in locating Black. AG000048 STATE OF ARIZONA OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS SECTION REPORT DATE WRITTEN BY AGENT: APRIL 15, 2002 NUMBER: AGI 01-0114 CASE NAME: COLORADO CITY, AZ REPORT TYPE: INTERVIEW AGENT: R. GBSON SUPERVISOR: PAGE 1 OF 2 On April 10, 2002, Special Agent Supervisors JOHN MALKIEWICZ and TINA MCMILLION, Special Agents FRANK ARVIZU, MEL POLLARD and writer conducted ?ve (5) interviews at the Utah Attorney General?s Of?ce, 192 E. 200 North, Suite 200, Saint George, Utah. Also present during all the interviews was TODD MACFARLINE. MACFARLINE advised that he was -respresenting the women. He later stated that he was there more for moral support than anything else. The individuals interviewed were: BETH M. STUBBS, ROBERTA LEANN STUBBS, ROSE MARIE BARLOW CLAUDIA ZITTING and AMY BLACK. The aforementioned women reside They reside in the same residence as WILLIAM ORSON BLACK, Jr). At the time of the interview, BETH STUBBS was pregnant. She further advised that she had gone through a pregnancy in 2000, but lost the baby in the eighth month. However, she stated that She had never had sex with anyone. She had self inseminated herself using a manual and syringe furnished by BLACK, Jr. BLACK r.also furnished the Sperm in the syringe. He did not assist in the procedure, nor was in the room when she completed the self insemination. She used the same method on both pregnancies. She stated that she has had no sexual encounters with anyone. She considers herself girlfriend and boyfriend with BLACK, JR. ROBERTA LEANN STUBBS has had two children. Birth certi?cates indicate that BLACK Jr. was the father of both children. She stated that she had used the self insemination pocedure also. She further stated that she has had no sexual encounters with BLACK Jr. She also stated that she has had no sexual encounters with anyone. She considers herself girl?iend and boyfriend with BLACK, JR. ROSE MARIE BARLOW has had three children using the self insemination procedure. She used sperm furnished by BLACK Jr. She considers herself and BLACK, Jr., girlfriend and boyfriend. CLAUDIA ZITTING advised that She is the girlfriend of BLACK Jr. At this time She has not produced any children for BLACK Jr. She wants to loose weight and get well ?rst. AG000049 Report to Colorado City, AZ File AGI 01-0114 INTERVIEW April 15, 2002 Page 2 of 2 AMY BLACK is the legal wife of BLACK, R. She does not know what goes on between BLACK, Jr. and the other women residing with him. During the interviews? all ?ve women stated that they do not discuss their private time with BLACK Jr., with anyone, not even among themselves. /kl< 01 14cc\CC-Aprii lO AG000050 STATE OF ARIZONA OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS SECTION REPORT DATE WRITTEN BY AGENT: APRIL 4, 2002 NUMBER: AGI 01?0114 CASE NAME: COLORADO Cl IY, AZ INTERVIEW ROSE STUBBS AGENT: R. GIBSON . three weeks. She further- stated that STUBBS date'efbi'rth _1s new pregnant and 18 due to deliver on April 17 2002 She further advised that B. STUBBS was pregnant approx1mately one on April 17, 200l Mrs, STUBBS stated that. B3: STUBBS would most liker give birth in - She does not know. where 6r with whom STUBBS Is. She was contacted by BETH, ROBERTA AND ROSE MARIE and told ab6ut the 1nterv1ews She STUBBS, Wanted to arrange a telephone interview with her" daughters and the other women, AMY BLACK and CLAUDIA ZITTING, all living at the reSidenee 6f WILLIAM ORSON BLACK, JR, She had been contacted by them to attempt to arrange the tele hone interview. They wanted to talk to the Attorney General? 5 of?ce instead of appearing? Mrs. STUBBS was advised that because the women were over the age of eighteen (18), they would have to talk for themselves. She was also advised that we would not do a telephone interview. We would meet them in person and interview them. She was advised that she should have all ?ve (5) women contact SA GIBSON so arrangements could be made. AG000051 Repon to Colorado City, AZ File AGI 01 -01 14 INTERVIEW - ROSE STUBBS April 4, 2002 Page 2 of 2 On April 2, 2002, this of?ce received a telephonic message from ROSE MARIE BARLOW. This of?ce also received two phone messages from B. STUBBS. B. STUBBS would not leave a phone number. On April 5, 2002, Igfwasircontacted by ROSE MARIE BETH STUBBS, ROBERTA STUBBS, ZITTING Iwas advised by them that they wanted to be interviewed instead of having totappear? None ofthe women stated that they were bein re scheduled for Wednesday, April 10, 2001, in On April 8, 2002, apprommately915 AM Ireceivedatelephonlc message from ROSE MARIE BARLOW. I returnedzher'call later in the time our meeting was on April 10. She wantedtoaiknoijthet ewasUtah timai'ojr'Arigona time. I reaf?rmed the time as 900AMUtahtnne :honicmessa Stubbs AG000052 #26637 STATE OF ARIZONA OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS SECTION REPORT DATE WRITTEN BY AGENT: SEPTEMBER 19, 2001 NUMBER: AGI 01-0114 CASE NAME. COLORADO CITY REPORT TYPE: INTERVIEW: I AGENT: M. PAGE 1 OF4 PAGEISI People Interviewed: Flora Jessop Holm Ms. Holm currently lives in oiJId probably be willing to talk tO us about this incident. Tammy Phelps a friend of Ms Stub .. {as previously married to a man named William Black and had three children during this marriage. Ms. Phelps has been involved in an on- going custody battle for her Children since she divorced Mr. Black. It is Ms. Phelps? Claim that, throughout her marriage, she was forced to use drugs manufactured by her ex-husband. She was considered to be a good wife when she took the drugs, but when she refused she was rebellious and a bad wife. According to Ms. Stubbs, Ms. Phelps lives inmith her mother, Carla Phel ull name is Tamara Sue Phe ps an er mother's telephone number is AG000053 Report to Colorado City File AGI 01-01 14 Interview Flora Jessop September 19. 2001 Page 2 of 4 Ms. Stubbs explained that two of her sisters Beth and Roberta Stubbs, were married to William Black at the age of 12. In 1997, Ms. Stubbs contacted the Child Protective Services Of?ce in Fredonia. She spoke with a man named Steve Terry Mr. Terry told Ms Stubbs that there was nothing he could do about the situation and that he wouldnotiiget involv ousamIlIes Ms. Stubbs stated that her sisters and Mr Bla There Is a large blue water tank whe" Ms. StubbslefttheCd? L, . E?h wa approximately14years old. She Is considered an .. . . keeps all records. The records for. the ch?urch-gwould be kept in the Jessop house. When asked about Warren Jeffs? beginning t6 speak for his father Rulon Jeffs Ms. Jessop stated that this began slowly after Leroy Johnson (the previous Prophet) died Warren began speaking for Rulon after ?rst stroke Ms. Jessop believes that Rulon would have been treated for the stroke in Salt Lake City. With respect to childbirth In the Colorado City/ Hildale Community, Ms. Jessop and Ms. Stubbs stated that all First Ward babies are born at the clinic run out of Fred Jessop' 3 house (unless they can ?t get there in time) The clinic just recently began refusing to treat Second Ward women. The clinic IS equipped with birthing and labor rooms, as well as x- ray and other equipment. It' Is an actual medical facility, with offices but it is attached to AG000054 Report to Colorado City File 01-0114 Interview Flora Jessop September 19. 2001 Page 3 o! 4 the home. Ms. Jessop described it as one wing of the house. Lydia Johnson (recently deceased) and Martha Barlow ran the clinic. Martha is a Ms. Jessop stated that when she was living at the Jessop home, she was a witness to both women dispensing drugs to patients. Ms Stubbs knows that her SIster Ruth had at least one baby at this clinic. -- has had a very hard tImeia bs further explained that Ruth will never leave beca hd uld also fear losing her According to from Utah. She stat of marriage. This be and fathers often ubbs'was kicked out of school. She he middle of a circle surrounded by he ever tried it again. The letter was was then taken before a group of men ?arid?! the men. The purpose of this was to qu'es .,*about the incident. Sam Barlow and Truman Barlow were among the men pres?n ,deitionally, Lawrence Steed was present but walked out. Ms. Stubbs stated that Mr Steed left because he did not agree with how they were treating her. Ms. Stubbs stated that her oldest child was fathered by Brian Black, William Black's older brother. She did not elaborate as to how this took place, but did say that she was never married to Brian Black - legally or spiritually.- AG000055 Report to Colorado City File AGI 01-0114 Interview Flora Jessop Seplember19. 2001 Page 4 ol 4 Ms. Jessop provided us with a small Tupperware dish containing an unidentified red powder substance. This substance was provided to Ms. Stubbs by Kenneth Gordon approximately three years ago Mr. Gordon has a vitamin/herb business and told Ms. Mr. Black claims it Is a mineral/protein energy boosting product Ms Stubbs believes this is the same substance used by her mother and belIeves It is: a drug manufactured by William Black. Ms Stubbs gave the Tupperware contaIner to Ms Jessop Ms Jessop ob bly born In Salt Lake City. .2 . . sOp stated that it looked like Ler? .. tWarren Jeffs made sure that 6h ThIs opened the doors for would be willing to speak and the church person ., Imp AG000056 em. MW 1.51:4 STATE OF ARIZONA OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS SECTION REPORT DATE WRITTEN BY AGENT: OCTOBER 14, 2003 NUMBER: AGI 02-1249 CASE NAME: ORSON WILLIAM BLACK, JR REPORT TYPE: INFORMATION AGENT: R. GIBSON SUPERVISOR: PAGE 1 OF 1 On October 13, 2003, I received information that ORSON WILLIAM BLACK, IR., was renting and residing in a i - . . seen rom roa . ence He is renting the house to BLACK. IS owne by JOHNNY JONES, a member 0 AG000065 STATE OF ARIZONA OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS SECTION REPORT DATE WRITTEN BY AGENT: February 7, 2005 NUMBER: AGI 02-1249 CASE NANIE: ORSON WILLIAM BLACK JR REPORT TYPE: INFORMATION - PENNIE PETERSON AGENT: R. Gibson SUPERVISOR: R. LUNA PAGE 1 OF 1 2 b/ On this date, February 7, 2005, I was contacted by PENNIE PETERSON, regarding where ORSON WILLIAM BLACK, JR., may be residing. PETERSON advised as follows: She had received information from her cousin, who resides in in Mexico, that BLACK was in one of three small towns. She knew the names of two of the towns: ?All three towns allegedly are on a mountain top close to each other. Another bit of information she received from her cousin indicates that there is a doctor residing in one of the towns who visits? on the average of once or twice a month on a Sunday to practice his medicine. She believes he would know where BLACK is. PETERSON would not disclose her cousin?s name, but did indicate that her aunt is LORRAINE JONES and she resides at least maintains a post of?ce box there. She most likely resides in Allegedly, LORRAINE JONES is in contact with BLACK and his family. AG000067 STATE OF ARIZONA OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS SECTION REPORT DATE WRITTEN BY AGENT: December 14, 2006 NUMBER: AGI 02-1249 CASE NANIE: ORSON WILLIAM BLACK, JR REPORT TYPE: Information AGENT: R. Gibson SUPERVISOR: R. Luna ?y PAGE 1 OF 1 nd writer attem ted to locate On November 11, 2006, SSA JOHN ORSON WILLIAM BLACK, JR. at a residencmapproximatel The residence belongs to CLAUDIA ZITTING. CLAUDIA ZITTING is one of celestial wives. ADAM ZITTING, son of CLAUDIA ZITTING answered the door. He advised that CLAUDIA was not available. ADAM advised that he has not seen or heard from him in years. ADAM was asked to contact our of?ce if he sees? BLACK or hears from him. r1 November 11, 2006, we knocked on the door of a residence in here BLACK is known to reside with his legal wife, AMY BLACK. The house appears to be occupied. However, the windows and doors were covered with black trash bags and other materials. Even though noises were heard inside the house, no one would answer the door. We announced who we were and asked to speak to someone in the residence. We did not get a response and left the premises. AG000068 COLORADO CITY (AGI 02-1249) UPDATE: In A ril 2002, ROBERTA STUBBS and BETH STUBBS, sisters residing in ivere interviewed. It was alleged that both sisters had been impregnated by ORSON WILLIAM BLACK, JR. During the interview, they both advised that BLACK was the father of their children. When asked tO explain they both advised that they had been impregnated by arti?cial insemination. They further explained that they got the idea from a medical dictionary that BLACK had. BLACK and the girls read the directions. When asked if BLACK assisted in the procedure, they stated he had not. He did however, furnish the syringe and semen to them. They then went to a room by themselves and inserted the syringe and injected the semen. When asked if they knew for a fact that the semen came from BLACK, they stated that the children look like him. RSON WILLIAM BL CK, JR. He also resides in a residence outside ot ohave Count Sheriff's Of?ce and the Arizona Attorney Genera ?s 0 ice was unsuccessful In March 2003, BLACK, the victims (ROBERTA and BETH) and others from his family allegedly ?ed to Mexico and is now living there. Numerous re orts have BLACK living under the name Of LLOYD BLACK in the state Of (LLOYD is the name Of one of BLACKS children). TO date, it is believed that BLACK is still residing in under a assumed name. It is further believed that he now has two new wives both underage, residing with him and his lural wives. Reports are that his legal wife resides in- along with one plural wife in-p AG000069 STATE OF ARIZONA OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS SECTION REPORT DATE WRITTEN BY AGENT: MARCH 3, 2003 NUMBER: AGI 02-1249 CASE NAME: ORSON WILLIAM BLACK JR REPORT TYPE: REQUEST FOR ASSISTANCE AGENT: R. f/ . SUPERVISOR: PAGE 1 OF 1 ?p On this date, March 3, 2003, I contacted Officer Rathbone I was informed by Of?cer Rathbone that he attempted RSON WILLIAM BLACK, STUBBS and BETH STUBBS on Friday, February 28, 2003, approximately There was a green minivan and a white truck on the premises of BLACK. He was told by a young girl that none of the above individuals were available. On March 2, 2003, Of?cer Rathbone again attempted -ame individuals at their residence. Again, he was told that they were not home. There was a white minivan and a white truck on the premises of BLACK. I requested that he attempt aily and document who they talked to, what vehicles were present and their tag numbers. I further asked him to fax me a report on every attempt to include the February 28?h and March 2 attempts. He stated he would. AG000070 Frank?Col-linjs- Qrs?on Blac-k From: "Garcia, Anth To: ?WilliamJ. Ekstrom J1 E/b rb AG000073 83/87/2883 Si madman a II I: If.) FROM: 13: COUNTY Jim L1: CI-HEF DIEPU {17? I . FAX. SHEET Mmz?upfnu?n NUMEISER m: D. 0 if) IS INTENDED {3(ij THE EXCLUSIVE use OF THE I I \DLlell-llzt) IIMAY INFORMATION WHICH IS PRIVILEGHJ . . -, II- A PAGES ARE NOT RECEIVED: COUNW OFFICE IIOX 700 DAM, A2: 66432 (5:20) 347.4900 FAX (520) 3471.4 902 WW AND LAW. IF YOU ARE Ngi' . IN OR ANY OF THE RECIPIENT, You ARE ltL) THAT ANY Fl COMMUNK A . JRTI-HER IIXJPY. OR IDISUL-OSURE OF . IS IF YOU HAVE. . WI IAL. IN IMMEDIATELY NOTIFY US AT PHONE ABOVE: I URN TO MAII. WITHOUT MAKING A YOUR IN IS (INT-A I LY APP AG000074 83/87/2883 13:28 PAGE 83 02/27/03 _Ohave County Sheriff? Office 406 12:03 6vil Process Service Worksheet Page: 1 3rocess Number? son Served 'rocess Information: ame Type Witness Disposition ACT .gency MOH Court Date 03/28/03 ourt Number CR 2003 239 Court Code ate Issued 02/27/03 Expiration Date:' ate Received 11:57:29 02/27/03 Date Returned ssigned Officer: Bailey, S. Location CCITY arvice Requirements: apers Served CRS Criminal Subpoena ervice Attempts: fficer Person Served Address Date/Time Mileage ?riot-MM 2W kisser-?next - - 0 3 BEAM-321mac Dgz?Q/_ v??v-h Person served was of suitable age and discretion and resides therein. a 26?538 83/83/2883 17:48 PAGE 8: DATE: 03/03/2003 TO: RON GIBSON, ARIZONA ATTORNEY GENERALS OFFICE FAX: FROM: DEPUTY LYLE D. RATHBONE REFER: CIVIL PROCESS PER OUR EARLIER CONVERSATION, I THINK THIS IS THE INFORMATION YOU WANTED. I HAVE ATTEMPTED SERVICE TWICE. THE FIRST TIME WAS ON 02/28/2003 AT 2000 HOURS. THE ONLY DOOR INTO THE RESIDENCE IS IN THE BACK, SOUTH SIDE. I MADE CONTACT BY KNOCKING ON A WINDOW IN THE NORTH WALL. THERE WERE FOUR CHILDREN IN THAT ROOM. AFTER CONTACTING THE CHILDREN, I SAW AN ADDITIONAL FOUR CHILDREN, YOUNGER THAN THE FIRST GROUP. ALSO AT THE DOOR SEVEN SMALL DOGS DID APPROACH. ONE OF THE DOGS DID SNAP AT ME. AT THAT TIME THERE WAS A WHITE FULL SIZE PICK UP TRUCK, POSSIBLY A CHEVY, AND A GREEN MINI VAN PARKED IN FRONT OF THE RESIDENCE. AT THAT TIME I MADE CONTACT WITH SHE ADVISED ME THAT SHE HAD NOT SEEN BETH AND ROBERTA STUBBS FOR SEVERAL DAYS. CLAUDIA FURTHER STATED SHE HAD NOT SEEN WILLIAM ALL DAY. FROM HER DESCRIPTION THE RESIDENCE IS BROKEN INTO THREE APARTMENT. ON 03/02/2003 AT 1735 HOURS, I RETURNED TO THE RESIDENCE. AT THIS TIME THERE WAS A WHITE MINI VAN AND THE SAME WHITE TRUCK IN THE YARD. THERE WAS NO ANSWER TO MY KNOCK AND I DID NOT SEE ANYONE. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED: "ii/k 01 AG000076 .1 . FertilityPius: Information Wn'tten by Patients, for Patients Page 1 of 1 .. Table of Contents FertilityPlus is a non-pro?t website for patient information on trying to mggki?mm conceive. We are not professionals, but rather are providing information Watkins-an that is written by patients for patients. Reader participation in some of our materials such as FAQs recatling personal experiences is welcome. Nothing on this site should be used as a substitute for medicai care . . . instead, the information provided here should be used to form questions to ask of your healthcare provider and help you become a better advocate in your own care and treatment. Please note that we cannot answer your medical questions or give medical advice. You need to look through the information provided and than direct all questions to your healthcare provider. We strongly recommend that you write down your questions before your appointments. It makes the information exchange process quicker. MM Home Table of Contents Disclaimer Contact Us Copyright 2001 Rebecca Smith Weddell. All Rights Reserved, AG000077 ertilitg?lz?lus: At?Home Insemination Instructions Page 1 0f 5 At-Home Insemination Disclaimer: This page is not intended to serve as medical advice and does not take the place of consulting with a doctor. Before following the instructions on this page, you should read through and discuss this technique and all the risks with a quali?ed medical professional. There are basicaliy 3 ways of doing an at-home insemination: 1. The so?called Turkey Baster Method. though it is smarter to use a needleless syringe or an oral medicine syringe. 2. Insemination using a Cervical Cap, Diaphragm or Instead Cup. 3. Using a Cervical Cap with Access Tube such as the Oligiosperma Cup from Milex, (Needs to be purchased through a doctor. This is a cervical cap with a tube for adding sperm alter the cup is in place And the 4th method which I am staying away from is an intra-cervical insemination it is more painful, no more effective, and your doctor needs to give you equipment and train you. Some Resources are listed at the end of this document. . ?Messages-ang .. $24111; ?use. . ,Siiq? a? Lil-7% 7-. I ?ts? . Supplies needed Needleless syringe or oral medicine syringe Collection cup, baggy or condom (Optional) Saline without additives or preservatives (Optional) Tube to attach to syringe (Optional) Mild germicidal soap You can ask your doctor for a needleiess syringe or you can buy an oral medicine syringe at just about any drugstore of in WaI*Mart near the children' thermometers. Buy the syringe with a plunger, not a bulb end (not the mini turkey baster!) The syringes work pretty much the same way. One that Is maybe 4 inches long, or longer is probably best. The oral medicine syringes have about a haltinch narrow tip on the end You can attach a catheter (thin tube) to either kind of syringe but you don?t need to and it may waste more ofthe semen to use one. a) Take a clean or sterile glass or plastic cup, baggy, or collection condom and have the male ejaculate into it. You' ll probably have better luck getting the semen out of a cup since you could suck the baggy or condom up to the syringe and block the opening, but you may get a larger AG000078 FertilityPius: At?Home Insemination Instructions Page 2 of 5 sample with the baggy or condom. You can use a tiny bit of saline, without additives/preservatives, to help get as much sperm as possible into the syringe, but you don?t need to worry too much about leaving a little behind. if you are using frozen sperm, you need to ask the sperm bank for directions on thawing. b) Draw back on the syringe once with nothing but air, then push the air out again. c) Draw back on the syringe again, but this time have the end of it in the semen the vacuum created by pulling back on the stopper will suck the semen into the syringe. d) Try to tap out any air bubbles since you don't want to inject air into your vagina. You can do this by slowly rotating the syringe until the opening is facing up. Tap the air bubbles to the top and them push the plunger in on the catheterjust a small amount enough to get rid of air We squirting semen out. e) Get into a position where you can either stay comfortably for a half hour or can get into the position w/ minimal movement. ideal is to either have hips raised orto lay on your side making sure your pelvis is canted (usually hips provide natural angle if you hips are wider than your waist, but if your bed, or wherever you are lying, is soft, you may want to put a pillow or two underneath your hip). i) Slowly glide the syringe, or catheter, into the vagina until it is close to the cervix but do not try to get it into the cervix and do this gently. Your goal is to coat the outside of the cervix and to deposit as much sperm as possible as close the cervix as you can get it. Q) SLOWLY inject sperm. lfyou do it too fast, it can squirt out of the vagina or at ieast spray away from the cervix. h) lfyou are concerned about wastage in the syringe, you can use some saline, without additives . . . add some to the syringe, shake it a bit, get the air out, and inject. This is not necessary since there probably won't be enough wastage to be of concern. i) Try to have an orgaSm Some suggest that using a vibrator for clitoral stimulation produces a bigger,'more powerful orgasm. Use whatever method works best for you (unless it requires lots of wateri). The orgasm helps the cervix dip into the vaginal pool'and suck up sperm it helps get more sperm up there, and may speed sperm travel. Avoid penetration (as in intercourse orwith vibrator). This fails in the can't hurt, might help category. j) You can use water and a mild germicidal soap to clean your Supplies if they will have time to dry completely before re?use, or run very hot water over them. Otherwise you can use saline to clean everything. Timing for this kind ofinsemination is the same as for intercourse if possible. The best timing is the day before LH surge, day of LH surge, and next 2-3 days, the last day or two being insurance. if you don't have all those options, the day of the LH surge and the day after are best. The advantage to this method is that you don't need any ?tted equipment! You don't even need a speculum (though you can use one). The success rate is the same as with intercourse, perhaps a bit less because there are usually fewer opportunities for insemination and timing may not cover the bases as weii. CERVICAL DIAPHRAGM CUP AG000079 - Fertility/Plus: At-Home Insemination Instructions Page 3 of 5 Supplies needed: Cervical Cap, Diaphragm or instead Cup (Optional) Collection cup, baggy or condom (Optional) Needleless syringe or oral medicine syringe (Optional) Saline without additives or preservatives (Optional) Mild germicidal soap Both the cervical cap and diaphragm are items that you are usually ?tted with by a doctor. The Instead Cup is actually a cup that women use to hold their period blood instead of a tampon or pad, and is available OTC. They all come with directions on insertion, but i will give a little detail here. This is something you may want to practice doing to try to avoid spilling the semen. a) You can either have ejaculation directly in the cap/diaphragm/cup, or into another clean receptacle (glass or plastic cup, baggy collection condom). You may need a needleless or oral medicine syringe to get the semen from the collection receptacle to the cap/diaphragm/cup. b) Fold the cap/diaphragm/cup in half so the upper rim in closed enough to hold in the semen. c) Get into a comfortable position for insertion standing with leg up on chair/toilet, sitting wide legged on toilet . . . whatever works for you. You can also have your partner insert it, but practice ?rst. cl) Once the cap/diaphragm/cup is in place, try to have an orgasm. Penetration is OK, but maybe not the best idea . . . As stated above some suggest that using a vibrator for clitoral stimulation produces a bigger, more powerful orgasm. The orgasm helps the cervix dip into the vaginal pool and suCk up sperm it gets more sperm up there, and may speed sperm travel. it's one ofthose . can't hurt, might help things. 9) Leave the cap/diaphragm/cup in place for at least 23 hours, but not more than 12 (check directions). f) You can use water and'a mild'germicidal soap to clean your supplies if they will have time to dry completely before re,?use, or run very hot water over them. Otherwise you can use saline to clean. everything. . Timing is the same as for intercourse if possible. The best timing is the day before LH surge, day of LH surge, and next 2-3 days, the last day or two being insurance. if you don't have all those options, the day of the LH surge and the day after are best. One advantage is that you can m0ve around immediately since the sperm is place next to the cervix and held there. Disadvantage is that you need to be ?tted for the cervical cap or diaphragm. The success rate is the same as with intercourse, perhaps a bit less because there are usually fewer opportunities for insemination and timing may not cover the bases as well. CERVICAL CAP WITH TUBE AG000080 Fertility/Plus: At?Home Insemination Instructions . Page 4 of 5 Supplies needed: Cervical Cap with Tube Collection cup, baggy or condom Needleless syringe or oral medicine syringe (Optional) Saline without additives or preservatives (Optional) Mild germicidal soap I've only found onesuch device and it is sold by Milex to doctors and medical suppliers. You may need to get it from your doctor. This would be basically the same as the cervical cap discussion above, only you inject the sperm through a tube afterthe catheter is in place. The success rate is the same as with intercourse, perhaps a bit less because there are usually fewer opportunities for insemination and timing may not cover the bases as well. PREPARING DONOR SPERM No speciai preparation is needed for donor sperm coilected iocally from a known donor. Shipped fresh sperm is generally sent overnight at a cool temperature similar to a refrigerator. Perparation is as simple as warming the vial in your hands or bra for a few minutes before loading into the syringe or cervical cap[diaphragm/instead cup. Another option is to load the syringe and warm in your hands before inserting into the vagina. Just be careful not. to spill.- Frozen sperm should be thawed fairly slowly. The best thing to do is ask the sperm bank for directions on handling and warming the sperm. lfthat information isn't provided, it is probably best to put the vial into a cup cool water and turn every minute or two for about 5 minutes. Then refresh your cup with somewhat warmer water and continue turning. Repeat until the sperm is thawed. When the vial is ciose to body temperature, go about your insemination with whichever method you've chosen. Make sure not to get the sperm too warm de?nitely do not use hot, water (not only could it kill the sperm, but there is the potential of breaking the vial as well). A Few Resources: Donor Resources Instead Cup and Instead Cup insertion Information Biotranz sperm shipping kit for sending fresh donor sperm overnight. Milex Products Article: lntracervical insemination Randomized controlled trial of cervical cap with intracervical resen/oir versus standard intracervical iniection to inseminate cryopreserved donor semen. Home Table of Contents Disclaimer] Contact Us AG000081 FertilityPlus: At?Home Inseminatidn Instructions - Page 5 of 5 Cogyright 1999-2002 Rebecca Smith Waddeli. Ail Rights Reserved. Last revision: Januraxy 13, 2002 AG000082 9" 4 ?9?04? ?Em, Arizona Attorney General?s Office Drug Enforcement and Violent Crimes Section Drug Racketeerinq Unit ?lemon!? To: Cochise County Justice Court (Bisbee) - Cochise County Justice Court (Douglas) Commander Ron Hager - Cochise County Jail Carol Cappas - Cochise County Jail From: Laura M. Reckart Date: May 23, 2003 Re: State v. Orson Black Pages: 8, including cover page 7W THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS FACSIMILE MESSAGE IS ATTORNEY PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION INTENDED ONLY FOR THE USE OF THE INDIVIDUAL OR ENTITY NAMED ABOVE. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY DISSEMINATION OF THIS COMMUNICATION IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. IF YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS COMMUNICATION IN ERROR, PLEASE IMMEDIATELY NOTIFY US BY TELEPHONE AND RETURN THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE TO US AT THE ABOVE ADDRESS VIA THE US. POSTAL SERVICE. THANK YOU AG000083 TERRY GODDARD OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL MAIN PHON ATTORNEY GENERAL STATE OF ARIZONA FACSIMILE May 23, 2003 RE: Orson William Black, Jr., DOB: To Whom It May Concern: The Ofa Black, Jr., DOB: is letter along with certified copies ndividual known as Orson William Based on information this Office has received, it is believed that Mr. Black is currently in- and will, in the near future, be retumed to the United States. It is further believed that he ma be brought to either the Douglas Justice Court or Bisbee Justice Court? authon?ties learned that Mr. Black had absconded to Mexico with the victims of the crimes Should you have any questions, please feel free to contact any of the following individuals at the below?listed numbers: Mr. Lura M. Reclam? (Please Note that Ms. Reckart IS NOT AVAILABLE May 26 through June 2, 2003) To Whom It May Concern May 23, 2003 Page Two Thank you for your time and cooperation. AG000085 Married to Orson William Black, Jr. Amy Barlow DOB Date of Photo Unknown Children: Truman William Blac Leroy Raymond Black Sonja Black Jefferson William Black Levi Richard Black Janie Black AG000086 Claudia esso Zitting DOB Married to Orson William Black, Jr. Date of Photo Unknown Children: Allen essop Zitting Arland Jessop Zittin Adam essop Zittin AG000087 Roberta LeAnn Stubbs DOB Married to Orson William Black, Jr. Photo Taken 6/12/1998 Children: Robert William Blac Quinie Blac AG000088 Beth M. Stubbs Photo Taken 11/26/1999 AG000089 Rose Marie Stubbs Barlow DOB Married to Orson 1 1am ack, Jr. (Previously Married to Leslie Barlow) Date of Photo Unknown Children: John Leslie Barlow (approx 18-19 years old) Davie Barlow (approx 16-18 years old) Richie Barlow (approx 14-17 years old) Benjamin Barlow (approx 12-16 years old) Sally Beth Barlow (14 years old) Seth? Barlow (14 ears old) Anita Rose Black Annette Rose Black Angela Rose Black 6-7 additional Barlow ren names not known) AG000090 STATE OF ARIZONA OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS SECTION TRANSCRIPTION REPORT 06-20-2002 DATE OF RECORDING: NUMBER: 01-0114 CASE NAME: Colorado City, REPORT TYPE: Interview - Beth Stubbs AGENT: RNG SUPERVISOR: RUF PAGES: 26 SPEAKERS ON THE RECORDING ARE: NAME: DESIGNATION TYPE: Special Agent Ron Gibson RNG Special Agent Patty Rustenburg PR Beth Stubbs BS Tom MacFarlane TM RN G: Today?s date is June the twentieth, two thousand two. It?s approximately ten ?fty. I?m Special Agent Ron Gibson from the Special Agent Patty Rustenburg from the TM: Todd MacFarlane representing Beth Stubbs. BS: Beth Stubbs. RNG: 0k. We?re going to do the easy parts now. I want to get your address. Where you reside. BS: 1 don?t know. RNG: Where do you live most of the time? Who are you staying with? BS: Amy?s. RNG: Ok. What?s that address. BS: 1 don?t know what it is. RNG: What is, where?s it at? AG000091 BS: TM: BS: PR: BS: PR: PR: BS: RNG: BS: RNG: BS: RNG: BS: BS: RNG: BS: It?s the -ouse. Yeah. You live together with Roberta? Yeah. We live at the same place. Ok. In that house, it?s you, Roberta and Amy? Are there others beside your children? No. Just you three and the children? Yeah. And William stays there sometimes. Ok. And what? William stays there sometimes. Ok. When how long have you lived at_ residence? For since, about May. May of this year? This year, yeah. Prior to that where did you live? -is? An address for that? Is that 1..- Yeah. AG000092 BS: RNG: BS: BS: RNG: PR: BS: RNG: BS: BS: RNG: BS: PR: BS: PR: RNG: TM: BS: BS: RNG Yeah. 0k. How long did you reside there? It would have been, I moved there in the ?rst of two thousand. January of two thousand? February? February. February. Is that when you met Mr. Black? Mhm. No. When did you meet Mr. Black? We?re talking Orson William Black, Jr. Ninety-?ve. Ok. What was the circumstances surrounding that? How did you meet him? Through Rosie Through Rosie. Rosie being Rose Marie? Yeah. How is she in relation to you? She?s my sister. 0k. 0k. Is Rose Marie married to William Black? Or does she live with him or what?s her relationship? If you don?t I don?t know. Ok. But you met Mr. Black through her? Yeah. At what point in time, well I guess I?ve asked this question, what was your relationship AG000093 with William Black, Jr.? BS: I?m engaged to him? RNG: Ok. When did you become engaged? BS: In ninety-eight, I think. RNG: What part of ninety-eight? BS: November. RNG: November, ninety-eight? Can you explain to me your de?nition of being engaged? How are you engaged to him if he has a legal wife? PR: What does engagement mean to you? BS: We?re engaged that, that means it?s a spiritual engagement. We?re going to be married in the after life. RNG: Ok. How old are you right now? BS: Eighteen. RNG: Your eighteen. When is your birthday? RN G: What year? RNG: 0k. PR: Did you get engaged on your birthday too? BS: Yeah. PR: Oh, good. RNG: 0k. How did that occur? Your engagement to him? Is it something that you asked him or he asked you? Or (unintelligible) BS: I asked him. AG000094 RNG: You asked him. Where you living in November, ninety-eight? BS: RNG: PR: Were you living with you mother, father, your family? BS: 1 was living with William. RNG: Ok. And this at BS: TM: - RNG: 0k in November ninety-eight, you just turned sixteen or ??een? BS: Sixteen, no ?fteen. RNG: Ok. Did you guys discuss children? BS: Yes. RNG: On that day? BS: Yes. RNG: Ok. What was the discussion surrounding children? Having children? Not having children? BS: Having children. RNG: Ok. And what was the outcome of the discussion? What did you decide? BS: I want children. RNG: Ok. Have you had any children by Mr. Black? BS: Now? RNG: Yeah. BS: Yes. AG000095 RNG: BS: RNG: BS: RNG: BS: RNG: BS: RNG: BS: RNG: BS: RNG: BS: RNG: BS: RNG: BS: RNG: BS: RNG: BS: Ok. Back in ninety-eight, did you try to have children by Mr. Black? No. Ok. We discussed, last time that we talked to you, you had a miscarriage, correct? Yes. Ok. When did that occur? Ninety-nine, er two thousand. In two thousand? Ok. Who was the father, who would have been the father of (unintelligible) William. 0k. At what point in time did you become pregnant with that child? Ninety-nine. And how old were you in ninety-nine when you became pregnant? Fifteen. OK, do you know what date? Ok. I?ll just, let?s backup real quick. Last time we talked - arti?cial insemination. Is that what occurred on Yes. Pregnancy? Yes. What do you know what day that you artificially inseminated yourself? July twenty-fourth. Of ninety-nine? Yeah. On that day you were ?fteen then? Yeah. AG000096 RNG: Where did you reside at the point? Where did you live? BS: I lived, (clicking noise) we just moved to Amy?s. RNG: Ok. That would be in - Bs: ?yeah. RN G: Where did you live before that day? BS: RNG: So that was from -to- BS: Yeah. RN G: When did you move to or - BS: February of two thousand. RNG: Ok. Prior to the ?rst pregnancy, did you live only on the - side of the border? Or did you go back and forth to the- side, like meanin- BS: What do you mean? RNG: Do you ever stay at- prior to that? BS: Yeah. Iwas staying out there some months. TM: Now prior to what I guess RNG: Prior to getting pregnant the ?rst time. Prior to July of ninety-nine. TM: Mhm. BS: What? RN G: Prior to July of ninety nine, the ?rst time you tried arti?cial BS: Did we stay out at -ometimes? RNG: Yeah. BS: Yes. RN G: During your stay out there, was there ever discussions with William concerning having AG000097 BS: RNG: BS: BS: RNG: BS: children or being engaged? No. 0k. But on your birthday of November of ninety-eight, you talked to him about becoming engaged or getting married? Yeah. Ok. Oh yeah we, we did talk out at- Ok. Did you discuss children? Yes. Did that discussion revolve around how to have the children? Yes. Whether you were going to have the normal way of sex or arti?cial insemination? Yes. And that occurred when? When did those conversations occur in Arizona? On my engagement day. So on November of ninety-eight (clicking noise) you were at-when you talked to him about it? Yes. Did he say anything about where to have the arti?cial insemination or where you were going to have your children or where you were going to get pregnant? No. You just talked about it out there? AG000098 BS: RNG: BS: BS: RNG: BS: BS: RNG: BS: BS: RNG: BS: RNG: BS: BS: RNG: BS: RNG: BS: Yea. And did he discuss how you would get pregnant? Yes. You discussed the arti?cial insemination? Yes. This was while you were ?fteen? Yes. But nothing happened for another year or so? Till ninety-nine. Ok. And when it did happen (clicking noise) in ninety-nine, where did you actually do the insemination.1..- Yeah. Ok. Did you talk to him that day about it or did he talk to you about it? I just told him, yeah. On July the twenty-fourth of ninety-nine you said I think it?s time or? Yeah. Where did that discussion take place? Um, I just told him the morning before. I mean, the morning. Where were you? At Amy?s. At Amy?s in- Yeah. AG000099 RNG: Ok. This is the one that resulted in a miscarriage? BS: Yes. RNG: 0k. The second child, the one that you just had. BS: Yes. RNG: How was that conceived? BS: The same way. RN G: Arti?cial insemination. BS: Yeah. RNG: Where did you reside or live at the time that this occurred when you got pregnant? BS: I lived at - RNG: 0k. You (clicking noise) July the twenty-ninth of nineteen ninety-nine, you were at - - Is that when the ?rst, that was when, no. What day did you become pregnant? BS: July twenty?fourth. RNG: Of what year? BS: Two thousand one. RNG: How old were you at that time? BS: Seventeen. RN G: Seventeen? You were residing at-at the time? BS: Yes. RNG: You discussed the procedure with William that or you told William it?s time again? BS: Yes. RNG: And he said 0k, we?ll do the arti?cial insemination? Or was that an assumption on your part because the ?rst episode or the ?rst instance? BS: What? 10 AG000100 RNG: How did you think you were going to get pregnant this time? BS: The same way. Arti?cial insemination. RNG: 0k. PR: How did you learn about how to do that? BS: (tapping sound) He has a medical book. He just showed, he showed his medial book. (Ringing sound). I read it. PR: Where were you when he showed it to you? BS: In my room. In his room,? PR: Which was - RNG: 0k. And that was the ?rst time or the second time? Or both times? BS: First time. (ringing sound) RNG: 0k. PR: So the ?rst time was in, in relation to your engagement which was - no that was your birthday. November of ninety-eight, was it at that time you ?rst started discussing it? (Unintelligible) BS: It was on my engagement day. PR: On your engagement day? BS: Yeah. PR: Where did you get engaged? BS: In- PR: So you got engaged in -then you went back to the trailer, the motor home in - BS: Yeah, the trailer. PR: You talked about you wanted to have children at that time? 11 AG000101 BS: PR: BS: PR: BS: PR: BS: RNG: RNG: BS: RNG: BS: RNG: BS: PR: No. We talked about it before we got married, before we got engaged. How many times did you discuss it? Just that once. What how far before you got engaged did you discuss it? Do you remember the date or about the time? Discussed what we were talking about? The arti?cial insemination? Yes. (Unintelligible) Just having children. Did you talk about that, you said prior We just talked about it on the engagement day. Which was November of ninety-eight. Yes. And that was in your motor home? Yes. Wait, where were you living ovembe-of nineteen?ninety eight? OK, but you became engaged to him a-hat day? YesYeah. So did he come to- then for your engagement and then you both went to - afterwards? 12 AG000102 BS: BS: RNG: BS: RNG: PR: RNG: BS: RNG: BS: We were staying out to .nd then we went and got engaged and went tc- Ok. I?m totally confused. We were staying out to -It was a school day and we just stay out there sometimes with Amy. And then we just drove some place and, and we drove into- and became engaged. 0k. Where did where were you at when you were discussing having children that day? In the motor home. Where? In the motor home. Which is in - Yeah. Is this time that he talked to you about arti?cial insemination? Yes. And this is when he showed you the book? The medical book? Yes. And that was in November of ninety-eight? Yes. The same day as your engagement? Engagement? Yes. Ok. And then in ninety-nine, July the twenty-fourth of ninety-nine, is when you decided it was time to have children? Who decided it was time for you to have children? I did. Ok. So you went to William and says it?s time? 13 AG000103 RNG: PR: BS: BS: PR: BS: TM: TM: BS: TM: Yes. Where were you living in November, in July of ninety-nine? July? We just moved to Amy?s. 0k. m_ Where did you talk to William about having children that day? At Amy?s. 0k. In Utah. Yeah. 0k. But when you discussed this, I just want to back up a little bit. When you discussed it on your engagement day, how come you didn?t try it then? First time I tried it, it was in June. Of what ninety-eight? Of ninety eight. How come you didn?t try it on your engagement day? (unintelligible) Now, I?m confused. You said June of ninety-eight didn?t you? Yeah. And that doesn?t coincide with the time frame that I?m. So let?s back up and make sure we got the year right. You said June. Do you remember what year? Of ninety-nine. I?m sorry. Ok. Because you didn?t become engaged till November of ninety-eight. All right. 14 AG000104 RNGJune of ninety?nine you tried it? Yeah. It didn?t work? No. 0k. (Clicking noise) So how come you didn?t try it sooner than that? I wanted to wait till June said I could have a March baby but that didn?t work. I can?t hear a word you said. I wanted to wait till June so that I could have a March baby. 0k. But it didn?t work. It didn?t work in June so you tried again in July. Yeah. And the second time was a charm. It worked. Yes. Ok. Did you talk about, did you talk about having sex versus arti?cial insemination? Did he mention anything about why he would chose that method? He just said that?s the way we, we just do arti?cial insemination and that way we won?t get in trouble with the law. We can?t, we won?t get in trouble. That you wouldn?t get in trouble? Yeah. What was your reaction when you ?rst heard of that? What was my reaction? Just said ok. (Unintelligible) 15 AG000105 BS: RNG Did you think it was strange? No. No? Do you know of any other people that did it that way? Any friends or family? No. You just trusted his word? Yeah. Ok. That, that ?rst pregnancy resulted in a miscarriage. Yes. Then in February of two thousand you moved to- To the little blue trailer? Yes. And that was living with Roberta? Yeah. July the twenty-fourth of two thousand one is when you got pregnant the second time. Yes. And that was through the same procedure. Arti?cial insemination. 0k. At that time you went to Mister Black and said you want to have a baby. Yes. 0k. And you both were in Arizona at the time? Yes. 0k. He, you assumed or did he say we?re going to do arti?cial insemination this time also? Or did you assume it or know that?s the I just assumed it. Ok. Sensitive questions. Did he, at that point and just maybe at that point, did he say 0k, 16 AG000106 BS: BS: here?s the syringe or did that happen a little bit later? No. That happened later. Same day The same day. 0k. And this was still in Arizona? Yes. 0k. Did he did you see him put the semen in the syringe? No. Did he hand you a syringe and say here it is. This is my semen or did you assume it was his semen? Ijust assumed it was. Ok. You were living in the trailer. You did the insertion yourself? No one was with you? No one was around? No. I did it in the trailer. Where did you do that? I stayed out at Amy?s that night. So you drove, he gave the semen in Arizona and you No. He gave it to me at Amy?s. Oh, 0k. That?s where I was getting confused on this. You talked about it in Arizona but you went to Utah to do it? Well it was the twenty-fourth. It was a holiday so we were out at Black Hill just having a party. Yeah. And I told him I wanted to try that day. And so when we stayed out at Amy?s that night, 17 AG000107 he just gave it to me. He did or she did? He did. He did. Was he staying in the house that night? At Amy?s house? Yes. UK. And he came to you or you went to him and he says here it is? I went to him. You went to him. Then you went back to your room and did what you had to do? In the bathroom. In the bathroom. And then he was no where in that room with you? No. Have you ever had any type of sexual contact with him? No. Meaning him touching you or you touching him? No. Sexually or anything like that? No. 0k. Did he tell you why he did not want to have regular sex to have kids? Yeah. Why did he not want to? So we wouldn?t get in trouble. So you wouldn?t get in trouble The law. The lawUtah? Why didn?t you do it in Arizona? What would 18 AG000108 BS: BS: RNG: BS: BS: RNG: BS: RNG: PR: BS: PR: BS: PR: BS: PR: BS: PR: BS: PR: BS: have been the difference? That?s just where I was staying that night. 0k. Just because that?s where you lived? Or stayed that night? I stayed that night 01:. And you got pregnant? Yes. First time Second time. That time. That was the second time. Well both times you, well you?ve been in June it didn?t work. July you got pregnant, had a miscarriage. July, you did it again, got pregnant. Yes. And everything workeddoctor about any of this procedure or? Mhm, no. How long after you got pregnant did you go see the doctor? I didn?t have a doctor. I had a midwife. Ok, a midwife. Who was that? Who was she? Uhuh. Elizabeth Camp. And she pretty much took care of all of your, your Whole pregnancy? Yeah. Did she deliver the baby too? Yeah, she did. 19 AG000109 PRafter the ?rst time, I mean have you ever asked about sex? Have you, you know, been just interested about it? I mean Ijust it seems odd that you wouldn?t, you know, ask No. No? Was it just something that he said was (clicking noise) for spiritual reasons or just because he didn?t want to get in trouble with the law or is that the only reason why he Yeah, I guess. He had told us after we?re twenty?one then it was something we really felt we wanted to do (unintelligible). So he is able to actually function sexually? I If you don?t know Beth, then don?t answer. don?t know. Ok. Then has he claimed to you that he?s able to function ok but he just wants to wait until you?re twenty-one? I just don?t know what you?re talking about? Really, he?s pretty much said it?s your choice, right? That Yeah. as far as the sexual side of it that?s not even an issue with William is it? Yeah. In other words what?s going on here The kids. is give you the opportunity to have children, right? Yeah. Is that the highest priority for you? 20 AG000110 BS: Yes. PR: How many children do you want? BS: As many as I can have. PR: Wow. I think two?s a lot of work. (Laughs) TM: Why is that Beth? (Laughs) Beth, help these people understand why you feel that way. BS: I just feel that God put us here on earth to, probation, to for eternal salvation and I think I feel like my duty is to have as many kids as I can. To teach them really good and the truth. TM: And you?re just trying to do that. BS: Yes. PR: (unintelligible) How old is the baby now? BS: Two months. PR: Oh. Did you have a boy or a girl? BS: Boy. PR: What?s his name? BS: - Anything else? RNG: I just want to make sure Ihave these dates right. Are all you guys moving out to the _Moving frorr-everybody moving or BS: Just me and Roberta did. PR: RNG: Ok. And (unintelligible) and Rosie gets the whole place? BS: Oh we go out there stay sometimes in the day time. RNGschool? 21 AG000111 BS: PR: BS: PR: TM: No. What?s your highest grade? Eighth. Did you quit on your own? Yes. Is that a normal thing out there? A lot of people seem to be quitting around the eighth grade. I don?t know. Is that when you got engaged? Is that when you stopped going to school or was that? No that?s not when I got engaged. I got engaged at year later. A year after you were done with school? You got anything? No. Ok. I think we?re done. Same thing. Yeah. Think about it for a few minutes, if you need to. I have I think I was getting, getting her angry at me just then don?t think I can?t think of anything else. That was my main concern is the time frames. To make sure of the ages and stuff. Well and from my perspective based on what I perceive to be a little bit of your angle. I don?t know what the angle is but in terms of what you seem to be concerned about was the time frame and the locations and frankly there was a little bit of confusion Mhm. 22 AG000112 TM: TM: BS: in part of that. And so I feel like it?s important that we make clear that we?ve got the dates and the locations down so there can?t be any confusion about that still go back and ever whether it?s you or someone else looks at the transcript and starts saying well here?s maybe a needle hole. Yeah. We can start working or something. So (unintelligible) What if we need to go over that again why don?t we go it just to clarify. And this is what I?ve got. In November of ninety-eight, you became engaged. Yes. To Mister Black. Yes. You were ?fteen years old. At that point there was really there was discussion of children but no actual act to produce children of any kind? Right. Arti?cial insemination of any kind. And at that point you resided at the_ house, is that right? Yes. Ok. But you talked about it at the Black Hills trailer. Yes. That?s where we (unintelligible) And that?s when you saw, saw the book? You were out there for the weekend or something? Yeah, it was after school. 23 AG000113 PR: BS: PR: BS: TM: PR: TM: BS: And you saw the book at that time? Yes. Ok. But you weren?t ready to actually, the timing wasn?t right to actually go ahead and try at that point. Actually we, yeah we talked about it and, yeah it wasn?t right that time. And then I just decided to wait till June. Well at that time did you guys discuss the fact of where you would have a child or where you would do the arti?cial insemination based on his fear of the law at that point? No. 0k. In July the twenty-fourth of ninety-nine, is the second attempt that you made. Yes. Correct. Ok. Twenty-fourth. And that was, where was that? Amy?s out (unintelligible) Apple Valley house. So then the pregnancy that resulted in this recent birth was July twenty-fourth? Yes. Nineteen ninety?nine. When you had- That was two thousand one Oh two thousand one when you had -yhich was two months ago. And (clicking noise) you were out there at Black Hill during the day. Had some discuss or something but you were at Amy?s house at Apple Valley that night. Was The discussion of what? 24 AG000114 PRabout the, the timing being right and, and going ahead with the procedure. Yeah. And you And that was July, two thousand one? (unintelligible) You talked about it at your trailer in - (clicking noise) 1, yeah. But you actually went ahead and did the arti?cial insemination in Apple Valley. Yeah. I stayed out there that night and that?s Where we did it. Ok. Now (clicking noise) it seems to be their perception that whenever this was going to happen there was a conscious decision to leave Black Hill and go into Utah. Is that the way that worked? That?s just where we ended up. That?s, that?s just Where you were. You would have done it at Black Hill if that?s where you were or if you?d been in Winchester Hills that?s where you would have done it, is that. What it wasn?t a It?s just where ever I went and that?s where (unintelligible) Ok. So it wasn?t a conscious decision to, 0k let?s, let?s run from the Arizona authorities and No. go over to Apple Valley or something like that. No. On your part, 25 AG000115 BS: No. TM: did he ever say anything like thatyou understood you were Within your legal rights doing What you?re doing, is that right? (Clicking noise) BS: Yeah. RNG: 0k. That?s it. It?s about eleven ?fteen and I?m going to end the interview. END OF SIDE A. 26 AG000116 STATE OF ARIZONA OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS SECTION TRANSCRIPTION REPORT DATE OF RECORDING: 04-22-2002 NUMBER: 01-0114 CASE NAME: REPORT TYPE: Interview of Roberta Stubbs AGENT: RNG SUPERVISORQ PAGES: 14 SPEAKERS ON THE RECORDING ARE: NAME: DESIGNATION TYPE: Roberta Stubbs RS Special Agent Ron Gibson RG Special Agent Meg Pollard MP Todd MacFarlane (Attorney) TM THE BELOW LISTED RECORDING DEVICES WERE USED: (Signature) (D ate) AG000117 RG: Ok. Today?s date is April the tenth, two thousand and two. It?s approximately ten-ten. We?re at the Utah Attorney General?s Of?ce in St. George, Utah. Present at the interview is Special Agent Ron Gibson from MP: Special Agent Meg Pollard from the TM: Todd MacFarlane. RS: Roberta Leann Stubbs. RG: Ok. Now I?m going to ask you to speak up as loud as you can. Hopefully one of these things will work. So we will go from there. So your name is Roberta? Lee Ann? Stubbs. What?s your date of birth? RG: Ok. And where do you live? RG: Ok. What?s your address? Rs: RG: 0k. Do you live in the house or do you live in the module out there? The trailer? RS: 1 live in the blue trailer. RG: 0k. How long have you lived there? RS: Since January of two thousand. RG: 'l'hat?s in the trailer? RS: Yeah. RG: Where did you live before then? RS: llived down i- RG: In- RS: (unintelligible) AG000118 RG: RS: RG: RS: RG: RS: RG: RS: RG: RS: RG: RS: RG: RS: RG: RS: RG: TM: RS: RG: RS: RG: 0k. How long did you live there? Since ninety-eight. 0k. Whose residence is the one in? Williarnsl. Ok. William Black? Yes Williams (unintelligible) And that?s William Black, Junior? Yes. What precipitated you being in that house in- How did you end up there? We just went down there and visited for a while. We being? My sisters, my mom. Ok. So how did you know William Black? I met him at my house. 0k. Through? Through, he just came over in his new truck. I went over and said that I liked it cause it was a Dodge, it was my favorite color. You like Dodges? Big Dodges? Was he there to visit you Roberta? No. I think he was there to visit my mom. Cause she came up and talked to him after I told him I liked his truck. Ok. And then I left. Did you have any relatives living with Mr. Black at the time? AG000119 RS: RG: RS: RG: RS: RG: RS: RG: RS: RG: RS: RG: RS: RG: RS: RG: RS: RG: RS: RG: No, thatI know of. How long has Rosie lived with Mr. Black? I?m not sure. 0k. But you met him because he came to your house at one time? About when do you know when that was? What year? About a month before I turned thirteen. So it was ninety??ve. I think. So at twelve you knew what kind of truck you liked? (laughs) We were big into Dodges. Yeah. 0k Did you start living with Mr. Black?s family at that time? Or at some point at that time? No. We just visited. Ok. So when did you become a member of the family? In ninety-eight. Ok. And I guess to ask you, in what capacity was that? Were you, what was your relationship with Mr. Black? When I moved in? Yeah. We got engaged the day that I moved in. 0k. Can you explain engaged? Promised to be married. Here in the State of Utah? Arizona? Or in what capacity? He told me that we would be married, we would be engaged in this life and married in the hereafter. 0k. Do you have a problem with that? AG000120 RS: RG: RS: RG: RS: RG: RS: RG: RS: RG: RS: RG: RS: RG: RS: RG: RS: RG: TM: RG: No. That?s our religion. 0k. When, when did you guys move to the?ddress? When I moved there it was January, two thousand. Ok. Why did you move there? We, we always planned on moving there. That was kind of we were going to build a big house and just sort of move in. Ok. You?ve had two children. Correct? Yes. Who is the father of those two children? William. What?s the children?s names? Ok. And the other one? Is that how you pronounce it -.7 ou know what, before, so that I don?t have to ask you at the very end of this conversation. Do you have a drivers license with you? Yes. Form of (Unintelligible) Here?s another one?Drivers license for that long. That?s a long time. Mine?s going to expire way before then. I?ll ask you some straight forward questions. Ok? When you moved in to the family of Mr. Black when you were thirteen? Twelve, thirteen years old? Is that how old you were? AG000121 TM: RG: TM: RG: RS: RG: RS: TM: RG: RS: RG: RS: RG: RS: RG: RS: RG: MP: RS: MP: RS: RG: How old were you? That? not what I heard. I heard that?s when she ?rst 0k. became acquainted with him. When did you move in with him? I moved in with him on my sixteenth birthday. 0k. In ninety-eight. That was in ninety-eight. Right. Ok. Did you have sexual relations with him at sixteen? NE: Ok. Then how did you have a child and you had a miscarriage by? MW He told me that we?d use a procedure called artificial insm Is that with both children? I . You?ve never had any type of relationship, sexually with him at all? No. rm.? None at all? You guys don?t even kiss? He kiss me on my sometimes on my birthday or when we got married he came and kissed. That?s pretty much it. When you got married, he kissed you? Is that what you said? Engaged. Did you go to a doctor to have this done? AG000122 RShome. "We" being? I. - He didn?t assist you? No. He gave it to when we were alone. And I went to my room qus going to bed and sat on the edge put the syringe in my drawer and went to bed. The next day I gave it back to him and that?s it. {Mr Was that both times? Same scenario? No. With- It was, we had barely moved out t- Mhm. Cause we, we got kind of sick of traveling of back and forth all the time. So we, we kind of moved back, we went back and forth from- to? Mhm. And I was out Black Hill and I told him that it was time thatl was about that I wanted a baby in May, a little girl on my birthday. Well, my mom?s birthday. And so he said well, maybe we can go out to the house with Amy and he?d see me later. And so then he when he got home I told him that I was ready to go to bed. Arndsohe Brought it to me. I went in the bathroom and put it in. Then came back out and gave it to him and went to, bed. And so he produced the sperm the same night that you inseminated yourself? I think sosyringe, gave it to you and you did the, you did it yourself? With no help from him or anyone else? No. I went in the bathroom by myself. AG000123 RG: RS RG: RS: RG: RS: RG: RS: RG: RS: RG: RS: RG: RS: RG: RS: RG: RS: Well, how did you know what to do? Well, when we were engaged I asked how we would have kids if we weren?t going to have sex and he went in Amy? 5 room and got a medical book and showed me where it was and I read it andI was looked like a pretty easy procedure. And that?s he told me. I mean it?s said that you had the semen in fourteen days after your previous period started. Ok. And so I just so whenever my last period was when I wanted to have a baby then I, you know, went and told him and asked him. It was all right. 0k. What kind of relationship do you consider yourself in with him? He?s my boyfriend. Ok. Does he have a legal wife? Amy. Ok. He said that if we did it this way he said that the Lord told him that if we did this way that we wouldn?t be, we wouldn?t get into trouble with the law. Do you know if any of the other ladies in the family used the same procedures? He, on our engagement day then he told me that I, he didn?t want me talking about this to anybody cause it WThat was nobody?s else?s business but my own. Ok. You weren?t afraid of hurting yourself? No. I read the book and I, I trusted him. I believe in him. 0k. You never told your mother how this occurred or your, your sisters? How what occurred? The arti?cial insemination. You never mentioned that to them? No. He told me not to so I haven?t said it to anybody. AG000124 RGthey knew, you guys had sexual relations? Don?t know. Don?t know. Do you know if your mother knows? She probably, I don?t know. She might. What about Rosie? I don?t know. I don?t we just discuss it. We keep it to ourselves. So and there been there, so probably they think that you guys had sexual relations then? I don?t know. So that?s what they would tell me? I have no idea. Ok. Just keep it to ourselves. Do you know Jenny Steed? Jenny, who? Steed. I don?t, don?t recall. Jenny? Jenny. How about a Louisa Johnson? Yes and no. I went to school with her. 0k. Is she in someone else?s home? I don?t know. lhaven?t seen her since school. 0k. When did you leave school? I left school, in, lets see, January ninety-eight. AG000125 RG: RS: RG: RS: RG: RS: RG: RS: RG: RS: RG: RS: TM: RS: RG: RS: RG: RS: RG: RS: RG: What grade was that? Ninth. Why did you leave school? Well, there was a few reasons. One of them, the main reason is because the guys over in that school, they were they?re really bad. They just treated outsiders rude. 0k. You?re considered an outsider? Yeah. 0k. They?d call you names and, you know. I guess a questionl didn?t ask And then I did get sick so I kind of used that as an excuse to quit. Why did you become an outsider? I?ve been, they?ve called me an outsider all my life cause I?m a Stubbs. That?s from your own family versus Williams?. Yeah. Yeah. I was an outsider before even I met William. But why what happened to the Stubbs family?to become outsiders? Don?t know? Just history? They just went their own way, I guess. Ok. So what you?re telling me is that you have not had any type of sexual contact with Mr. Black, at any point in time while you were under eighteen years of age? No. I?ve never had any. And your telling me you, you the pregnancies occurred due to arti?cial inseminations? 10 AG000126 RS: RG1 RS: RG: RS: RG: RS: RG2 RS: TM: RG2 RS: RG2 RS: RG: RS: RG2 MP: That you administered yourself? Yes. And I asked him ifI could get pregnant. Like on, for example, on the ?rst when I was engaged,. I told him that I had heard that the sooner that I get pregnant and have a baby and the better chance I would not get cancer and both my mom and grandma both died of cervical cancer. I didn?t want that. I wanted to be healthy for my kids. It?s pretty hard growing up without a mom. You said your mom? Are you talking Sally? No. My mom died when I was six years. 0k, 0k, What is Sally?s relat. Ok. So Sally?s is, andI get confused sometimes about the relationships and that?s why I?m trying to get it straight. So She, she took care of me when my mom died. 0k, 0k. Got you. Ok. She was morn but it She was basically a sister, a mother in the family. Right, right, got you. It?s not as easy growing up with, I mean, a different mom. Right. It? s, it?s she does take care of you and do lot?s of stuff for you but it?s just different. I understand. She, she?s trying to protect you in this. Yeah, That, that?s what mothers are for. Is to protect the children. You have anything. Can?t think of anything. 11 AG000127 RG: TM: RG: TM: RG: TM: RS: MP: RS: MP: RS: MP: RS: RG: RS: RG: RS: need to talk to you again, do you have a problem with that? Matter of fact I probably need to get your phone number. Mine? Yeah. 0k. Yeah I gave it to him but I?ll be happy to give it to you. Well if he?s got it, that?s alright. Yeah, I gave it to him. But Roberta, did you do that because they, they ask Beth some questions like this about why she came to do that and who?s idea it was. Who?s idea was it originally to get involved in this relationship, this engagement? It was mine. I, I-liked William a lot and I wanted a good father for my kids. They, I could have picked anybody. I mean there?s lot?s of people that I could have. I just wanted a baby. You know to have sex or but I wanted a good father for my kids and I believe that William would be a really good father. That, protect me. Protect my kids. I did think of one other thing. Have you ever, you haven?t had any kind of sexual relationship with William? Right? - Mhm. Ok. Have you ever had any kind of a sexual relationship with any other man? No. Ok. So you would still be technically a virgin? Yeah. 0k. Your eighteen right now or nineteen? Nineteen. You turned twenty this year. I?ll be, I?ll be twenty this May 12 - AG000128 RGyou?re, your term of age eight between, seventeen, sixteen, ?fteen is a minor. Eighteen and above is an adult. So, you have not had any sex since you turned eighteen? No. He told us that we couldn?t have sex until I turned twenty-one. Ok. Even then he didn?t want to but if I felt like I need, needed to, he would think about it then. Is this still what you want Roberta? Your still relationship you want to be in? You feel good about it? Yes. I?m happier now than I have ever been in my life and it just keeps getting better, not worse. So, you?ve never been coerced into it? No one ever made you be placed in this marriage or this relationship? No. After he told me that we couldn?t have sex till I was twenty-one, he asked me what I thought about it. If I still wanted to be with him and I told him that I did. That I (knocking sound) didn?t want to be with anybody else, I would give up sex to have a good father. So why twenty-one? That? 5 just what he said. Did you guys all get together and talk about What we were going to ask you? You and Beth and the rest of the family? No. So this is all your thoughts, your decisions? Yeah, he told me that I needed to think about (unintelligible) and just need to think about. Just tell the truth. He said that the Lord would protect me. 1 3 AG000129 RG: Does he know you?re in here? He knows you?re here? RS: (laughs) Well he, I brought all the moms down here so he kind of had to stay home. RG: Is he baby sitting? 0k. Anything? MP: No. RG: We will end it. It?s approximately ten thirty. I?m going to go ahead and turn the tapes off. MP: Did we do today?s date? RG: Yes. It?s April the tenth if we didn?t, still. END OF A. 14 AG000130 DATE OF RECORDIN STATE OF ARIZONA OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS SECTION TRANSCRIPTION REPORT priI 10, 200 NUMBER: 01?0114 CASE NAME: Colorado CI REPORT TYPE: AGENT: R. Gibson SUPERVISOR: R. Foster PAGES 49 SPEAKERS ON THE RECORDING ARE: NAME: DESIGNATION ON TAPE: Beth Stubbs BS Ron Gibson RG Meg Pollard MP Todd MacFarIane TM THE BELOW LISTED RECORDING DEVICES WERE USED: (SIGNATURE) (DATE) AG000131 name is Special Agent Ron Gibson with? it is April 10?h approximately 9 o'clock. We?re in St. George, Utah, present in the interview is Ron Gibson, Special Agent Meg Pollard. Todd MacFarlane, here with Beth Stubbs. Beth Stubbs. Beth Stubbs ok?, I, I?d just like to get ailittle background on you to begin with to let you know what we?re doing here. We've talked a couple times very short conversations. do need to talk to you uh, I don?t know if you know what we?re talking about yet, if you don't know what we?re looking at. But, I?ll explain it to you. About a year and half ago we had some allegations of young girls being impregnated by older men up there and I mean by young girls, minors. You ?t in that category as a minor if I?m not mistaken, that?s what I want to clear up with you. So, just to start-off again if you can tell me your name, tell me your address where you reside and tell me your birthday. My name is Beth Stubbs and my address is, I don?t know the address out there. I is it the residence Black? AG000132 ?p Yeah. Okay, make double sure you know, we're gonna carry on the conversation just like this isn?t here so, it?s informal/formal. Okay. We'll just go from there, I had the address somewhere. Something like- Yeah, that?s it. in? Yeah; AG000133 Okay, uh, we?re gonna talk about your relationship with Mr. Black and we're talking about William Orson Black, Orson William Black, which one is, which way does his. name go. Orson William Black. And, he's a Jr. Yeah. Okay, do you know Mr. Black? 9 Yes. Okay, do you reside in the same residence as him? No. Okay, where do you reside and if you don't Reside meaning that you?re saying the same You live in the same house. AG000134 BS RG BS RG No. Okay, where do you live? I live in a trailer. Okay, where?s that trailer locatedthat in the same residence as Roberta? yes. Okay but, 'it?s on the same property. Yes. Yes. Okay, how long have you been there? 5 AG000135 For February of 2000. Where were you at before then? Okay um, what type of relationship do you have with Mr. Black? gl?m engaged to him. Engaged to him. Yes. How long have you known Mr. Black, known Mr. Black or been around Mr. Black? Since '95. Since ?95. In what capacity, were you residing with him then did you live in the same area with him? Did you live in the trailer with Roberta at that time No, that time I was just, I was just got to know, I mean just as family 6 AG000136 .what mean when I say sexual relations? Yes I do. Okay, have you had sexual relations with Mr. Black? No. ?Then how could you be carrying his child? Cause we used an arti?cial insemination procedure. okay, where a? I mean it was in, which medical facility did that? I i did that. You did it? Yeah. AG000137 .. . .Just out of curiosity how does that work? I used a syringe. Okay. When did this occur, when did you do this? - Um, July 24th 2000, um, 2001. mm Okay, the semen that you used, I?m not to smart in how this thing works, this arti?cial insemination, that was Mr. Black?s semen?? Yes. Okay, so there was really actually no sexual contact with him? No. Could I, could I break in? Could ask you a question too Beth? How do you know it was Mr. Black?s or William?s, Beth do you know for sure? No, I don?t know for sure but. Okay, you, you think it was? AG000138 BS Well, he gave it to me. TM Okay. . RG Okay. MP He gave it to you? BS YeahYeah. RG Okay, where did this occur did you, while you were still on the Arizona side of the border, is this where you inseminated yourself over thereUtah. RG You?ve been living out there since 2000 you said, with Roberta, how long have you been living with Roberta in that'trailer? BS Yeah since 2000 since. 10 AG000139 Okay, have you had any sexual contact with Mr. Black, physical sexual contact with Mr. Black? No. None at all? No. Okay, you know this is kind of a strange situation, it doesn't feel right. I?m sorry what do you want me to tell you. I want you to tell me the truth, I?m just trying to get it into my?mind how this is really working. Uh, We never heard of anyone inseminating themselves. Can you explain to me how you do that? I know it?s sensitive, Beth go ahead and tell him what you know He just gives me a syringe and I go in the bathroom and do it. 11 AG000140 mu know that part,il know you go in the bathroom and do it. I want to know how did you do it to yourself? I stick it up in my vagina and insert it. Okay. How did you learn about that Beth? He has this medical book that shows how to do it Shows how to do it and tells how and shows pictures As a woman, how did you take asyringe and place it inside your vagina without hurting yourself? What do you The ?rst question I guess is did it hurt? No. 12 AG000141 painful? No. Okay. Did you have help, was any of, your sisters or your mother No. Any other ladies helped you? No. A good question is did VWliam help you in any way with that? No. Okay, have you had sexual relations with anyone? No. So the practical purpose is you're still a Virgin. 13 Yes, other than a syringe. So, if you were examined by a doctor, your hymen would still be intact, is that what you?re saying? And, if you don?t know the I don't know what that means. Okay, that would be the part um, that when you have sex with a man there is a certain part of your anatomy called a hymen which is broken, so if a Doctor examined you he would be able to determine whether or not you are still a virgin guess my concern about that is that uh, it?s possible at least in my way of thinking that a syringe could also break the hymen. I don?t know that and so I Can you tell me how large the syringe was that you used? It?s the size of my ?nger. About the size of your ?nger, okay. 14 AG000143 5' don't really think this is gonna go to much further with you, with that answer so, i, I have to think about this for a second; Take all the lt?s highly unusual. (unintelligible) we knew it would be, we knew it would be so, and we know that . you?ve got some other things going on in your collective minds about what?s going on and not just with this situation, but with the overall big picture and so you know, take what time you need to absorb it but I gbess another question, did you, your mother, your sisters, Amy and Claudia get together and discuss this before you came over? Discuss What? What you were gonna say, what you?re gonna say? No. Okay, so you never talked about it? ?15 AG000144 BS No. RG Okay. MP Can you tell me why you would want to be pregnant, if you are not married to this man um, you haven?t had sexual relations with him. What, what reason would you have to want to inseminate yourself that way? BS Well, I just, I felt like God pLit us here on earth to, on probation, to return salvation and that, I feel that my duties is to have as many kids as I possibly can,' teach them to be good and do what?s right. - By yourself? BS Well, he helps, he?s the father, he supports them. RG Well, why didn?t you guys do it the normal way? BS . Because that way, we?d get in trouble with the law. RG Okay, is that a typical thing that happens out in Colorado City, is that a lot of these uh, young girls get pregnant? 16 AG000145 ?don't know, I don't live in Colorado City. Okay, well you live at an address, you live in -hich is this Well, I wouldn?t know about any of those. Okay. The reality is Beth, William is essentially what and I don?t know if you?ll be familiar with this word, I use the word dissident, which means he's essentially separated from the other group in Colorado City and kind of what they do, is that correct? Yeah. And, so you can't necessarily judge what you do or what he does by what they do, is that right? . Yeah. ls VVilIiam considered an apostate? Yeah. 17 AG000146 Are you? By them-?yeah. Okay so, if I'm not mistaken, everybody in that little group out Yeah. Are considered apostates? Yes. Are they any relationship to any Ward? You got Ward and Ward ll out there or are you guys just out there on your own? We?re not in any relationships with any. Wards we?re just loners i guess. You have your own church services on Sunday? No, we Or anything like that? 18 AG000147 No. Robenae Okay. Now, Roberta has had two children. Yeah. Do you know who the father of those children are? No, Okay, well let me ask you about twdorthree other people, let me ask you about How can you not know when your sisters been living in the same trailer? mind my business and she minds hers. Do you think you know? I'm sure he is but I don?t know. 19 AG000148 you know you know how it Roberta use arti?cial insemination? I don't know, you need to ask her. Okay, do you know a Jenny Steed?? No. Do you .know a Louisa Johnson? Who? A Louisa Johnson. No I don?t think so. Okay, you know this, this is her story, she?s gonna stick with it so I don't guess there?s really to much further we can go with her. I Well, and maybe I could even ask her some questions but, I, I?m sure one of the concerns they have is that your not doing this because you want to or somehow or being coerced or it's not your idea um, if it is your idea think maybe you need 20 AG000149 put their minds at ease as to why you?re doing this a little you explained some of Yeah. But, has anyone ever twisted your arm to do any of this? No. Did William ever twist your arm? Nolwent to him. Okay. Okay so as opposed to the other arrangements that are usually made out there um, you kind of initiated it, is that what you're saying? Yes. Alright, um, and I?m just quite a bit of background there and ifl was in your shoes, I know what kind of questions and concerns I would have. Certainly feel free to ask any follow-up questions. 21 AG000150 RG Well, I do have one other question, I?ve been told and have talked to people out there, notjust your sisters notjust your mother, that you?ve had a miscarriage in the 0 I BS Yes. RG Is that true? BS Yes. RG When was that? BS It died?Maroh 5th of 2000. R6 Okay, how did you get pregnant by that? - BS Same way, arti?ciai insemination. MP How far along were you? BS - i had a month left when I, about, about a due date MP You were about 8 months pregnant? 22 AG000151 BS The due date is the same day as this time, it?s urn, April RG So you?re supposed to have this kid next week. BS yeah. RG You?re moving good, ok uh, you understand where we?re coming from, what are our concerns are? BS Yeah. RG Okay uh, we were just, we had found out and we do have information on other people that they did have children at sixteen, did have children at seventeen. 'Which at that age they are considered minors um, you?re an adult that?s tine, if you had sex with him now, .you?re an adult l'don?t care, that?s not my job. Right now. at sixteen and seventeen thatis a crime and that?s what I?m concerned about, the young girls. TM Oh sure and when'you say it?s a crime the crime is to have the sexual relations that would normally lead to child birth. 1 RG Right. 23 AG000152 ?7 just want to clarify you said, have children at sixteen and seventeen is a crime, that?s kind of what came out of your mouth. Even, even the fact if, if say Beth had, had any type of sexual encounter at sixteen and seventeen, I understand, that resulted Not even resulted Oh sure, I If she complained, if she would come Yeah, you're right. And said at sixteen years old, he touched my Right. He touched my vagina. whatever the case may be, that's a crime. That is not supposed to happen to ?fteen, sixteen, seventeen year olc1 24 AG000153 \u this case there was none of that Okay, that's, that?s the bottom line to all this, did you have sex when you were ?fteen or sixteen, even if you consented to it, that is still a crime. And, that happens to a lot of girls in Phoenix, they consent they have sex, either they get pregnant or something happens and it?s: still a crime. You?ve always understood that, haven?t you Beth? Yeah. Is that something that?s taught out there to young girls, I hope? That it?s a crime, you mean? That they shouldn?t be doing that at ?fteen and sixteen. Right. Yeah. Okay, okay anything else you want to say, you just want to get out of here. 25 AG000154 lguess?. (unintelligible). Yeah go ahead. Urn, can you tell me how far you?ve gone in school? Eighth grade. Eighth grade and how come you quit going to school? There is a lot of prejudice at our school, like said we?re apostates and kids are pretty rude, they?re mean so ljust dropped out. Okay. Do uh, do you guys have anything to do with Raelene and Warren? No. 80, their on their own little world over here and you guys are in another world over here? 26 AG000155 Yeah. Okay. You said, that before February of 2000, you lived in- Yeah. Who were you Iiving with then? I was living with William. How long have you been living with VVIIliam, regardless of where it was? How long then i- Anytime ever, where ever. I started moved in with him and his family in 98'. How old were you then? I was fourteen. 27 AG000156 RG Why did you move in with him? And, why did who put you there? BS I did. RG At fourteen you made a decision that you wanted to leave your mother? BS Yes. RG And, live there? BS Yes. RG And, was there a problem there with your mother and father? BS No. RG Okay. TM Did you ask them to basically consent or BS Well, yeah I asked them permission?. TM Their blessing? 28 AG000157 Did Roberta move in at the same time? She was already moved in With them, when I moved in. is that part of the reason you wanted to do that? Yeah, and then don't know. Okay, was uh, this is also in-Nhen she moved in with him? Yeah. Okay, and then you guys moved out here about two years ago? No, we moved, ?rst we moved to Amy?s house it?s in Utah. Yeah. -me where around there and then we moved t- Out there. 29 AG000158 5. .The blue modular home? Yeah. They refer to it as- think, right? Yeah. Yeah. That?s where you reside at this time in the same place with Roberta? Yes. Okay I just kind of wanted to follow up said, that you um, went to, to live with Mr. Black and his family in 98' and Roberta was already Yeah. I 32 AG000159 Did you, were you becoming part of his family like, that he was raising you as a father at that point or what kind of a relationship was that? No, it was Did you have romantic interests in him at that time? I wanted to marry him at that time. Okay. How did you guys know him in the ?rst place that you had some interests . in going there? Good question. How did I know him? Uh?huh, how did you know him, that you became romantically interested in him? I?d just been since ?95 then, me and my sisters we?d always gone down there and stayed with him, week-ends and stuff you know, just, Well, how did you know 33 AG000160 Yeah. Who's Property is that? It?s okay, how did, where did he get it from, do you know? I don?t know. Okay, because I had been told it was Claudia's at some point or one point in time. The reality is to um, at some point, there may a lot of things that over lapse that Beth may not know but um, I?d be willing to answer. I mean, really I don?t think any of them have anything to hide nor does?VVsIIiam and uh, you know can answer those kinds of questions. Okay. a quite title action on?the prOperty, ?g That?s not even a big deal, I was just cause, I 30 AG000161 Well To start with that you?d even go to Yeah. Him on week-ends? Apparently they don?t know that Rosie is your sister, right? I do. You didlknow that so, that?s kind of what started it all right? Okay, yeah Rosie is my sister and she, we?d go out there with her and then that?s how we got to know him and his kids and his family, Amy. So Rosie?s been there for quite a while? Yeah. So, Rosie is kind Of the connection there, basically right? 34 AG000162 BS Yeah. For some reason i keep calling her Rose Marie i don?t think she likes that. MP That?s all i have. RG Okay. TM Hey Beth, Uh, just a follow up too, one of the big concerns then of course they're focusing really on the letter of law and sexual relations and things. But, I think one of the concerns you have too is, are people in say your situation where they want to be, doing what they want to be doing and no one?s here, i mean this is between you and them and they want to hear a truthful answer. BS Yeah. TM Are you, where you want to be doing what you want to be doing? BS Yeah, yes. RG (unintelligible), this is what you?ve been taught. BS Yes. 35 AG000163 You were talking about you know, the religious aspect of this about producing kids and you know that type thing. This is what you?ve been taught all your life.- Yeah. Okay and so you see, again like I said as an adult i don?t care what you do. Okay. As a sixteen, seventeen year old it does bother me when this happens to young girls. So, that?s why you did it though, you did it based on your religion? Yes. You did it because you felt like you were in love with him and you. wanted to marry him at some point, is that it? Yeah. Okay let me ask you the term marriage, he has a legal wife Amy. Yes. 36 AG000164 . know terms, would that mean you would become a sister wife? Are you a sister wife to him? No. You?re not. What do you mean a sister wife? Well, a sister wife is what I?ve been told over the last couple of years is that an individual will have a legal wife and this case it?s Amy. To go a little bit further that would mean that Rose Marie or Rosie would be a sister wife, she is not legally married to him. She's an adult I don?t care. Yeah. That means, if you are going to produce children through him insome form of fashion, you become a sister wife correct, you are part of that And, if you feel that they are putting words in I Well, l?m not playing 37 AG000165 TM Okay. Educate me, I need to be educated. BS l?m not his wife, I?m just engaged. RG Okay. BS l'm going to be his RG So, what happens with B8 In the afterlife. RG In the after life. So you?re engaged, you will never, l?m not gonna put words in your mouth, you tell me if I?ve got this right. BS Okay. RG You?re never going to legally marry him? I BS Not on earth. 38 AG000166 William owns the property. I asked Claudia when was up there before and she just said, she didn?t know who?s property it was. Yeah, I did a quite title action some time ago. Okay, was it, is it in th-hat time? I know it was a while ago it's kind of hard to remember some of these things. You know the reality is too, there are uh, maybe multiple business entities and so exactly uh, what entity holds the property or what ever the case maybe and, and frankly I think Claudia is probably a trustee or the trustee (unintelligible). Well, they haven?t seen a trust. And, so but, anyway. Okay um, where do you reside at this point and time? Um, at At twelve-seventeen or 31 AG000167 earth, you?re not gonna become married to him by the State of Utah or the State of Arizona? No. Okay. What about celestially married? is that what this is called? Do you have some kind of, I know that we?ve spoken with other people um, in polygamist families that there is a ceremony that takes place much like a wedding onlso that you are spiritually married. Maybe not married in the eyes of the law but,_that in the eyes of your religion, your faith um, that in that aspect, you?re married and you will remain married in=the afterlife would that Well, we?ve had a spiritual engagement. Spiritual engagement, can you explain to me what that is? It?s just, basically means that, that it?s a promise that he?ll marry me in the afterlife. I?ll be his wife in heaven. 39 AG000168 Does a ceremony actually take place for that? Yeah, we did a ceremony for it. Okay and who did, who, who performed the ceremony? William did. Okay, you guys just did yourselves? Just me and him did it. Okay, what about um, you talked about Rosie was there with him first. Yeah. Did Rosie havesome similar ceremony or don?t know. I?ve not heard the, the term having ?um, you know a spiritual engagement. But, rather, I mean that you?re actually living as a husband and wife here and you will is different then, than in the eyes of the state and, and you know 40 AG000169 I?m not concerned about, l?m not concerned about that. (unintelligible). I'm trying to Sure. The make up of, of the family and what?s going on. You don?t necessarily take the position that you are living together as husband and wife, do you? No. Alright so, he, you?re a mother, you?re?not yet but you intend to be a Yeah. And, have children, there is a family and you fit into the family. Yeah. 4?1 AG000170 And, he will be the father of those Children, he?ll be the father ?gure and help you and everything but, as far as living together as husband and wife that'8 not what you?re doing. Yes. Or what you intend to do, is it? No. What would it mean to you to live together as husband and wife, what?s the difference to you? To me living as husband as a wife, is just living in the same house and same room, sleeping together and stuff like that. ?ls there anyone in your family unit. meaning everybody on that Yeah. Who would be living as a husband and wife, in your eyes? Amy. 42 AG000171 (4And that's all? That?s all I know of. Okay. I didn?t ask you this, what?s your birth date? Okay, I don?t think we can go much further than this, there?s no where to go. One (unintelligible). Yeah, I understand, one thing I'll say, you asked about her education um, (unintelligible) I?m kind of interested in is writing and uh, retired a couple years ago from practice to do some writing. I read of Beth kind of a journal that Beth had written and frankly I was just down. right impressed with uh, the intelligence that was exhibited in herjournal and how well written it was. Uh, just from my stand point, if I?d never met her, read the journal and it was you that wrote it, right Beth? 43 AG000172 ITM Yeah. Uh, I?m convinced that she knows what she's doing and she?s doing what she thinks she should be doing. My purpose, really in asking that question was you know, trying to ?nd out if, it she left school, why she left school. Right, sure. Did something make her quit school, did she want to go back or um, what were the; circumstances. Oh, yeah I understand. i?m not questioning you?re intelligenCe Yeah. How smart you are at all, please don?t take it that way. I Okay. 44 AG000173 l?m just trying to make sure that you?re safe and happy and healthy. Well, that?s a uniform concern that people have though, not getting the education, they don't have the background to make well informed decisions all those sorts of things. I mean those are all legitimate concerns that I think flow out there and the general populous and.:. Okay, would you have a problem ifl have any more questions to call you? No. Okay, and you can be contacted through who, see know Roberta doesn't have a phone: Rosie, Rosie has a phone. Okay. And, right I?ve been staying at Amy?s though. Okay, I think, she gave me a phone number I?m pretty sure, so okay. The other thing that we didn?t do if you had some identi?cation just so that we 45 AG000174 .(unintelligible). Driver?s License. Yeah, a driver's license. can verify that we really talked to Beth Stubbs. Same picture l've can?t believe how long these driver?s license go for now, to 2048. Holy cow without being renewed, Without being reneWed. (unintelligible). (unintelligible) the same in 46 years. i don?t know that uh, it's the same way in Utah or not, I have Utah driver?s license so, maybe I?ll have to sign up in Arizona. 46 AG000175 STATE OF ARIZONA OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS SECTION TRANSCRIPTION REPORT I DATE OF RECORDING: 04-10-2002 NUMBER: 01-0114 CASE NAME: Colorado City, AZ REPORT TYPE: Interview of Rosie Barlo AGENT: RNG SUPERVISOR: RU PAGES: 13 SPEAKERS ON THE RECORDING ARE: NAME: DESIGNATION TYPE: Rosie Barlow . RB Special Agent Ron Gibson - RG Special Agent Meg Pollard MP Todd MacFarlane TM RG: April the tenth. It?s approximately eleven twenty with the Utah Attorney General?s St. George Of?ce. Present is Special Agent Ron Gibson with the? - MP: Special Agent Meg Pollard with the? TM: Todd MacFarlane representing Rosie you go by Barlow or Stubbs? Barlow. RG: And state your name? RB: Rosie Barlow. RG: Ok. And you don?t go by Stubbs at allcan?ticall .you Rose Marie any more? RB: No. RG: Ok. AG000176 RB: RG: RB: RG: RB: RG: RG: RG: RB: RG: RG: TM: RB: RG: Rose Marie Barlow is (unintelligible). Ok. (unintelligible). Can you tell me your date of birth? This is just for identi?cation purposes. A baby. Can you tell me your address? That?s considered a_ddress? Uhuh. Which is really-?hat?s what you guys told me last time. Ok. Probably. Ok.? We?re here to see if We can get information so you don?t have to appear down there. (Unknown person whistling in background during questioning). So like I told you on the phone we just want the truth. So that?s all we care about and it?s concerning Mr. Black. What?s your relationship with him? Boyfriend. I?m sorry, he?s your boyfriend. Ok. How long have you guys been in a relationship? our years. Ok. I?m going to ask you, this doesn?t pick up well so. Speak up as much as you can Rosie. Ok. Ok. This basically involves around Roberta and Beth. Like I mentioned before, when we didn?t have much of a conversation. We have concerns about (unknown person whistling RG2 RG2 RG2 RG2 RG2 RG1 RG2 RG2 RG2 RG2 in background during questioning.) sex with minors, in some situations.? Mhin. And that?s what we want to ?nd out from you. If you know anything about their relationship. Do you know what type of relationship Roberta has with Mr. Black? I don?t. I assume it?s probably a lot like mine. Ok. l'didn?t know there was anything actually 0k. Till it was very obvious. Very obvious by Roberta being pregnant? Being pregnant. (Unintelligible) 0k. We know she?s had two children. Do you know if they?re Mr. Black?s children? No. I can only assume. I would think they were. 0k. How about Ber, Beth? At this point in time, well she?s had one miscarriage she says. Mhm. And she?s pregnant at this time. Do you know if those are Mr. Black?s children? Not positive. Not positive but you you?re assuming again? Yes. I would think so. Why would you assume that? Because of where they are. 0k. (Unintelligible) Ok. How long have Roberta and Beth been in a relationship with Mr. Black? I don?t know. DJ AG000178 RG: RG: RG: RG: Ok. How long have you, how long they lived in that trailer? I?m assuming they both live in the trailer and not in the big house. At that, I don?t know. I?m not sure long that trailer?s been there. Two or three years 0k. (unintelligible) I guess bottom line question. Do you knOW, for a fact, (unknown person whistling in background during questioning) are you making an assumption that those children belong RG: RG: RG: RG: to Mr. Black? No, I don?t know for a fact. Ok. However you do know they are pregnant. You do know that Roberta was pregnant at age sixteen and was pregnant at age seventeen? But you don?t know by whom? You can?t be sure by whom? That?s what you?re telling me. Yes. Ok. We know that Beth had a miscarriage about a year or so ago. Which would put her about sixteen or seventeen, getting pregnant. And now she evidently has gotten pregnant at seventeen again. She going to have this child next week. Mhrn. You do not know who, you can?t be sure who the father is with that one? This pregnancy? No. Neither one of them talked to you about it? No. Neither one of them talked to you about how they got pregnant? Uh, uh. AG000179 RG1 MPS'ure. TM: TM: TM: TM: TM: Ok. Then that?s it unless you have something else? Can?t think of anything. Ok. need to talk to you at any time in the future, would you not hang up on me when I?m calling you? Would you talk to me? Did I hang don?t want youdoing it in the future. Oh, oh. .. Could I ask Rosie some questions. Maybe clarify some of those issues? Rosie, how many children do you have? Fourteen. Fourteen children. Now you made a statement that I guess I kind of caught on. You said that you assumed that their children are conceived the same way yours were? Is that what you said? Uhuh. That I was actually surprised that they didn?t go into more detail about your answer. I think that they maybe assuming some things. How were your children conceived? I?m talking about, do you have any children that are that, that William Black is the father of? (unintelligible) How many children? I have three. Three children I have three with him. And then eleven. AG000180 RG: RG: RG: RG: RG1 Ok. Then I guess I know where Todd?s going for. How were they conceived? My three children with William were, we used an arti?cial method. Ok. Why does William use an arti?cial method? Well, when I moved out there I, I was separated, you know, I lived out there for about a year. Separated, not knowing for sure if I was going to go back to, to my other . relationship. And, and then when I didn?t and I moved out there, well my three older boys were in a lot of trouble. They were going out, drinking and smoking and had been in trouble with the law. 1 Already stealing, shoplifting. But and I really was impressed with the way he dealt with them. Mhm. (unintelligible) going in school. Got their grades back up and. I just says I, I don?t really have anywhere else to go. I would appreciate you staying here if, if nothing else. Having your in?uence with my kids cause it was, it was pretty scary to watch those cute little things grow into monsters. (Laughs) Yeah. But, he said ?ne. And he approached me with the idea that after his experience with Tammy, you know, when he lived right there in the community Mhrn. that he felt like he needed to do things differently. And that was the approach that he was going to take. That he felt like (unintelligible) to be able to live his religion and not break the law. And at the time I said well I?m pretty busy with the kids I have. I don?t but later on as, as things go (unintelligible) we did get engaged. Just we had the spiritual engagement and, you know, he presented me with the ideaof of how he felt by going AG000181 RG2 RG2 RG1 RG2 RG1 RG1 RG: RG: about having kids. I didn?t go with it right at ?rst. But after a while I decided (unintelligible). So most people go to a doctor for this. Did you go to a doctor? No. Ok. So explain. I, he whenl decided to do it then. Well the ?rst time was When he lived in St. George. Mhm. And we came back and forth, every so often. He had a (unintelligible) pulled down there and we?d kids back up with'us and we?d stay the night. And, and I just did it down there. I?d just stay in the guest room when was there. He just gave me the syringe and I used it++ and gave it back to him the next day and. It for me it worked the very ?rst time on, on that one. Yeah. Cause a couple of the other kids that I tried a couple. It didn?t work. Ok. That was one of my questions (unintelligible). Ok . Or and then after they moved and thenl would just go over to Amy?s house. Ok. Do it there. So i actually never did do it right there where I lived. So all three of the children you have with William are have it was due through arti?cial insemination? Yes. That you proceed that you did yourself? Yes. No doctors. AG000182 RG: h: RG2 RG: RG: RG: RG2 RG1 RG1 MP: No. ?Where did you get instructions? Did you read about it? Did Actually he, I mean, I?ve heard of the term. Yeah. But when and when he mentioned it at ?rst I didn?t really get into it cause at that point I didn?t think it was something I would go for. But I was quite busy with sons. (Unknown person whistling in background during questioning, same little tune as previously heard). Kind oftie the family together. And he, he said he felt like I?d probably have few girls so and I had, had mostly boys. I have nine boys. He used to have a, have a book. A medical book. - 0k. He showed me. He showed me that. Is he celibate? I don?t think so. 0k. But he?s his experience with Tammy was rough, yeah. Real scary. He has her children there in his house, right? Yes, yeah. And he just felt like (unintelligible) wouldn?t work long term. 1 know that he, I know that he?s mentioned that he does have problems, a little bit. But. Ok. I?m sorry. You AG000183 TMguess you may need to, you may need to clarify what you mean by celibate tool, I just think that you may need to de?ne that better, for all of us. Ok. Basically celibate just means does he sex with anybody? Does he have sex with anybody. That you?re aware of. I he?s, he?s stays with Amy sol. 0k. Has he had actual sex with you? - 0k. No. Do you know if he?s had the At first when I moved out there, my relationship before was really rough. Mhm. And I had, and even before I. moved out there I had moved my husband?down into the livingroom for quite a few months because. And so when he presented me with the idea that way, it sounded great to me. Cause I had, had a rough sexual experience 0k. and I wasn?t really interested in. 0k. And so that part of it for me was no problem. 0k. Well let me Can I Sure. Back it for just a second. You said that you thought he had some problems in that area. AG000184 Were you referring to sexual function? RB: Yes. MP: Ok. He told you that he had some problem with that? 7 RB: He, he didn?t tell me any speci?c names or anything but he just said that it doesn?t for me quite as well as it used to and so that?s all I can recall. MP: Ok. RB: When he was talking about Tammy (unintelligible) saying the different reasons why. MP: Did you know why, what in the relationship with Tammy, would cause him to not Want to have sexual relations with other women? RB: Basically the just the law. That it just doesn?t work. RG: She was younger? RB: She was, she was a plural wife and he well they went through quite a few court cases. Maybe I can even clarify, I?m not the witness. RG: Mhm. TM: 1- But all kinds of really bizarre accusations of (unintelligible). I mean I basically lived it with him. RG: Ok. TM: Because we went through a lot of extensive litigation for years over that and the custody of the children. But a lot of real bizarre accusations with respect to, you know, sexual encounters among other things. And I thinkafter that and I think that?s what Rosie?s referring to. RG: Yeah. TM: William?s position was I?m just not even going to go there. I, I like these kids. I believe 10 AG000185 TM: TM: TM: MP: TM: MP: MP: MP: MP: it?s my duty to, to, to have children. And it?s part of the religion. Right. (unintelligible) how we feel. But as far as even getting close to anything like that. I?m just not even. I, I mentioned the word trap before something. That?s kind of what I meant by that. He, he?s basically taken the position that, that?s not even going to be a possibility based on his previous experiences. T?guess I?m not really clear on why, I mean obviously you?re an adult. Huh! exactly. And that?s the reason I wanted to clarify that with Rosie because. I mean there?s no reason that they couldn?t, under other circumstances. (unintelligible) whether you were (unintelligible) why, why I don?t have a sexual relationship with him. Is that what you?re saying? Mhm. I don?t because of my past bad experience. Well, but regardless of, of what your feelings are if he?s telling you that he didn?t want that because of what happened with Tammy. I?m not really clear on why you would pose any kind of a threat. 1, I suppose if I wanted to 1,1 .You mean 3? could ask for an annulment at this point. I, you know, I?m 11 AG000186 TM: I think it?s more of just the legal entanglements when we talk about the experience of Tammy getting crossways with the law. .He didn?t want anything to do with. He does feel like it?s his responsibility, religiously and Spiritually to have a family and to raise children to provide for them and everything else. But as far, 1 mean it, it?s very strange I think to be sitting on that side of the fence and saying, you know. Here we thought that the main reason they were doing all this is for sex. And know it looks like this isn?t adding up according to the normal paradigm that we try to apply to this thing and I realize that, that?s the way it looks but that?s, I think what the facts and the evidence are. Ok. And I think Rosie really helps clarify that because there?s not a age issue there. Right. And they could have a fully functioning sexual relationship and they still don?t. Ok. So. Is, is Claudia a, a girlfriend or boy or only girlfriend, boyfriend? Is there a relationship between those two? Between William and Claudia? (Someone whistling same tune in background). Not that you know of? No, not really. Ok. Let me ask you, give you two names and let me know if you know them. Do you know Jenny Lymi Steed? How about Louisa Johnson? Mhm. (No) 0k. 12 AG000187 RB: I mean I may have seen their faces but I don?t know their face to their name. RN G: 0k, anything from you?. ?Ok. That?s it then. It?s about eleven thirty??ve. END OF SIDE A. AG000188 STATE OF ARIZONA OFFICE OF TIIE ATTORNEY GENERAL SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS SECTION TRANSCRIPTION REPORT DATE OF RECORDING: 04-10-2002 NUMBER: 01-0114 CASE NAME: Colorado City, AZ REPORT TYPE: Interview - Claudia Zitting AGENT: RN SUPERVISOR: PAGES: 4 SPEAKERS ON THE NAME: DESIGNATION TYPE: Claudia Zitting CZ Special Agent Ron Gibson RNG Special Agent Meg Pollard MP Todd McFarlane TM RNG: Today?s date is, again, April the tenth, two thousand two at the Utah Attorney General?s Of?ce in St. George, Utah. I?m Special Agent Ron Gibson,? TM: Todd McFarlane, representing Claudia Zitting. RNG: Can you introduce yourself to the machine? CZ: Claudia Zitting. RNG: OR. Date of birthshort conversation about, seems like years ago, was about two weeks ago CZ: Right. AG000189 RNG: CZ: Ok. Is that your residence? Yes) it is. Ok. What we kind of talked about a little bit at the time was Roberta and Beth. Their situation about if you knew who do you know who they are? Yes. Roberta Stubbs and Beth Stubbs. Do they reside on the same property? Yes. i Ok. And which part of the property do they stay on? In that trailer. In the trailer. They don?t stay in the main house? No. Ok. You reside in the main house? Right. 2 0k. In what capacity? What do you mean by that? I guess just to be blunt, are you and William boyfriend?girlfriend? Or are you a renter? . You told me last time you rent aroom there. Yes. I rent. Yeahl consider myself a girlfriend. Ok. (Someone whistling same tune as heard in interview of Rose Barlow) How long have you know Mr. Black? Actually I grew up knowing him. So you?ve known him forever? Mhm. (Yes) AG000190 CZ: RNG: CZ: Ok. What type of relationship do you have with him? Is it monogamous. meaning do you have sexual relations with him? Have you had any children by him? I haven?t. We do have an engagement. 0k. 0k. Then I?ll I would like to. ask you about Roberta and Beth. We know Roberta has had two children. Yeah. Do you know who the father is? I can only assume it?s William. Ok. I don?t know details. Do we know that Beth?s had one miscarriage and she?s pregnant now? Do you know who the father is? I would assume it?s William. Ok. You don?t have any ?rst hand knowledge? No, I don?t. No conversations with William about it? No conversations with Roberta? No. Ok. And you say you have no children by him. No, I haven?t. Do ;you know how Roberta and Beth conceived? No, I don?t. Ok. No idea? No. AG000191 RNG: MP: CZ: i 5MP: CZ: MP: CZ: Ok. Has William ever talked to you about having kids? Oh, we kind of mentioned a little bit. Can you go into dtail about that at all? No, no. (unintelligible) Talk about then, why, how? No. We just decided that maybe later if I can lose some wight and 'get?my health a little better then we?d discuss it. CZ: 3 "0k. Well that?s the bottom line of that situation. I just have two names to throw at you and you let me know if you know who they are. Do you know who. Jenny. Steed is? No, I don?t. Louisa Johnson? No, I don?t. Ok. I think we covered most of it with Claudia right there. Is a, that?s it. Any questions? Anything? (unintelligible) It?s about eleven forty. And we will end the interview. END OF APE SIDE A. AG000192 STATE OF ARIZONA OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS SECTION TRANSCRIPTION REPORT DATE OF RECORDING: 04-10-2002 NUMBER: 01-0114 CASE NAME: Colorado City, AZ REPORT TYPE: Interview - Amy Barlow AGENT: RNG t/ SUPERVISOR: PAGES: 24 I SPEAKERS ON THE RECORDING ARE: NAME: . DESIGNATION TYPE: Amy Black AB Special Agent Ron Gibson RNG Special Agent Meg Pollard . MP Todd McFarlanc TM RNG: Today?s date, April the tenth, two thousand two. Approximately eleven forty. We?re at the Utah Attorney General?s Of?ce in St. George, Utah. I?m Special Agent Ron Gibson with MP: Special Agent Meg Pollard with? TM: Todd MOFarlane representing Amy Black. RN G: Ok. If you?d like to introduce yourself, give me your date of birth and address. If you don?t mind. AB: Amy,AmyB1ack-? RNG: Ok AB: RNG: Ok. You told me you had two addresses. You have one on the Utah side and one the AG000193 AB: RNG: Arizona side. Ok. Could you give me the Utah side? Either one. Ole?they traded but. 1 don?t know I think it?s - AB: MP: AR: TM: MP: TM: AB: AB: AB: RNG: AB: RNG: That?s the Utah side? is that in Hildale?? (unintelligible) it?s different. No it?s actually by- What, what are they, I What?s the mailing address? Yeah, they must have put a-or-or something on it.- The mailing address? I think it?s a address. I don?t know the box number. That?s close enough. (Unintelligible) it?s .We had a little conversation a couple of weeks ago, you and 1. Yeah. Mhm. And you?re here to talk to me about what we talked about last week. And let?s what happens at that point. Ok. You?re the legal wife oer. Black, correct? Ix.) AG000194 AB: Yeah. I?m the only one. 0k. How long have you been married to him? Twenty-one years. 0k. How many children do you have by him? (Someone whistling same tune that was heard in the interviews of Rose Barlow and Clauding Zitting) I have eight. i Ok. Just going to skip around a little bit here. (Unintelligible) I need to talk about Roberta and Beth. That?s what we, you and I had a little discussion about last week. Last time. Didn?t get many answers from you. So we?ll try again. (Whistling continuing) Do you know who Roberta Stubbs and Beth Stubbs are? Yeah. 0k..Did they reside on the property on in Colorado City? (Unintelligible) Do they live there? Yes. At this point, yeah. At this point. Ok. How long have they been there? I think about, I?m not sure. I think Berta was there about ninety?nine. And Beth, I believe, two thousand. Ok. I?m not sure. Ok. I, I know that Roberta, and we talked to Roberta, has had two children. Mhm. U.) AG000195 Do you know whose children they are? I can guess. Ok. You don?t have any absolute proof of who, who?s the father of those children? I don?t have any proof. Ok. Who do you, what would your guess he? I can guess William. I don?t know. Ok. But you can make that guess and that assumption but you have never talked to - William about it-or you have never talked to Roberta and Beth? Either one? Mhni. Ok. Beth is pregnant now. She?s had a miscarriage about a year or so ago. Again, the same question. Your guess would be? I can guess. 0k, and again the guess would be William? I can guess. But no proof or. No proof. No conversations. Ok. That?s basically your assumption. Yeah. Ok. Todd brought it up in the last question I had with someone so I?m just going to ask you right up front. You have had children by William Black? Yes. Has this been through normal conception or other means? Just normal. We talked about when we left Colorado City, you know say, and we had the problems with Tammy. Mhm. AG000196 AB: We, we kind of went in to talking about that he was kind of having some problems with being impotentcy. Mhm. And so we talked about ar, arti?cial inseminating. And I told him I?d rather just do it the other way unless, you know. Yeah. Did you guys read up on it, study?up on it and everything? - ?Yes, We did. We talked about. Ok. Did you use books to read about it? Uhuh (yes). Or whatever? Mhm. Ok. You still have those books? Mhrn. Ok. Would you be surprised if, if he was the father of their children? That, that?s what they used? We talked about it. He said that?s the way he would do it. Ok. But you really don?t have any proof, knowledge? I?ve seen the syringe. Ok. That?s about it then. That?s about it. Ok. Anything? He talked to you about having arti?cial insemination to have your kids? AG000197 AB: MP: AB: AB: MP: AB: RNG: AB: MP: AB: MP: AB: MP: AB: TM: .2: Yeah, he did with my kids. 0k. What was the reason for that? He was kind of lrnpotent. Yeah. And I, I wanted to have more children. Like urn, I?d gone for years and a lot of stress. Ok. Did he talk about it in other sense of having other wives or girlfriends, about have doing arti?cial insemination? That if he, if that were to be the case that?s What he would do? Yeah, I think, uhuh. Ok. That?s the only way he would do it if, you know. Pardon me if I?m a little ignorant about, you know, a lot of they guy stuff here (unintelligible). If he has an impoteney problem, how does he produce this semen to give? You would have to ask him that. (Laughs) Ok. I?m not a guy either. Ok. Ok. I don?t think I have anymore questions on that (unintelligible) on those, 011 Roberta or Beth. Do you know the name Jenny Steed? Or Louisa Johnson? No, I don?t. It doesn?t ring a bell. 0k. 0k. Maybe I could just ask Amy 5. question. I don?t know that it is really important but she AG000198 TM: AB: TM: AB: TM: AB: TM: AB: TM: TM: AB: mentioned that one reason that he had mentioned was because of impotentcy issues. Mhm. And the other (unintelligible) other thing she mentioned was Tammy and Tammy?s name kind of keeps surfacing. I don?t think anyone experienced all of that and knows anymore . about it, besides William, than, than Amy does. And Amy might be able to shed a little light, again, on why that would havecaused, among other reasons, for William to do some of the things that he?s done. i I think that would be important with the issue of arti?cial insemination. If you can tell me IA why, is it Tammy or Tamara? Either. Her name is Tamara That?s Tamara Sue Yeah. Or is it Tamara? - Is that how they say it? I don?t know. Her dad calls her that. (Laughs) I don?t know (unintelligible) Oh, 0k. If, if you can explain to me how this affected him to the point of causing impotentcy? If you know. And I don?t know if she knows that. Urn, he had, he had like some pains.- Did, did ok. I guess was it a sexual problem with Tarn, Tamara? Did she beat him up? No. Did she hit him or? AG000199 AB: KNG: AB: RNG: AB: RNGthink it was stress, really. Just stress related? 1 think. And, and some physical. Not, not maybe not she?s beat him up but him physically, I mean stressed. Yeah. Did they have, was it a very physical marriage as far as they, was there domestic violence in this marriage? None that I saw. Ok. Now you mention allegations at one point. What kind of allegations was he making - against her or she was making against him? Was she making? (Unintelligible) Your imagination. You, you name it. Yeah. Can you just kind of explain to us what was the situation with Tammy and why was it so traumatic? I mean in your words it, it; what happened? Urn, when she had her last Mhrn. And when we kept her she had, she went into the hospital. Well I don?t know about when but just say like um maybe three months or something. I think, is what they said. AG000200 AB: TM: AB: MP: TM: i (tinintelligible) AB: AB: RNG: TM: AB: TM: TM: Yeah. And so your imagination. We had one point where the well, the middle daughter, her middle, she Tammy had three children. And her middle daughter, second child who at one point we wondered if maybe she tried to attempt drowning her. Or whatever because the little girl would not get near the tub. You could not bath her. For I had to sponge bath her for six months. She would not get near water. And especially not in the tub. . ok. So there?s some of that you?re dealing with. I mean I?m just saying, you know, inside. And then he was accused, you know, of everything from you name it. Sexual problem, rape? Yeah. Or sodomy or stuff like that? And physical abuse. Just bizarrest things like that he got a rock and, Hit her in the head. Hit her in the head with it. Just the most (sighs). Strange. Was this ever investigated by the locals over there? It wasn?t. No I think (unintelligible) Ok. Now which was investigated? Did any of the stuff that William was going through with her? Did, did the Marshalls or Mohave Countylook into it? Was it ever reported or? I mean again when I say that we?ve been to hell and back on that between criminal AG000201 AB: TM: charges and cus child custody issues, we literally been probably three to four years of Ok. essentially non?stop criminal and civil litigation, including appeals. Was he legally married to her at one time? No. Ok, she was I?m the only Wife. That?s what I thought. Ok. 7 (unintelligible) Anything?- No. If I have questions in the future, can I call you? Sure. Ok. It?ll be along the same lines. I?ve already told Todd it?s just something like this. If, you know, depending on where this goes. Ok. I just want to say one thing that he is the oldest umgrandson of (unintelligible) 7 Black. Ok. And so with, you know, the religion we feel like that we do want to live a, you know. The religious aspects. Uhuh. Raising children and (unintelligible) Did William?s personality change because of, of with the thing with Tamara? He?s always been low key cause he seemed to be low key when I was out there that day. It?s William probably deals with stress maybe different than other people do. He never lO AG000202 AB: TM: AB: MPH AB: MP: TM: AB: MP: AB: AB: TM: gets real worked up or excited. Yeah. He?s pretty calm. I don?t think even under real but he has other manifestations. Right? (laughs) Exactly. Ok. Well that?s the that?s what we needed to ?nd out from you guys. Whether there was problem or there isn?t a problem, so. There was nothing personal against you guys. Yeah. Canl askgyou another question real quick. - ?Sure I don?t know how relevant it is. But the question is kind of running through my mind after talking to everyone. Typically, .I know, in that area and hearing referred to the religion. I understand that you guys are not part of the, the main ones, with the Ieffs. Nor the others? (unintelligible) good questions. No. Right. But I sense something of a hesitation to refer to anything having to do with plural marriages. Do you guys have some different philosophy that? What.-.. We believe, I mean that, that women have a right. You know, and that they don?t need to be told what. You know that they just take women and marry, you know that?s how they control it._ That?s what happens on the Ward One side? Or Ward Two? I, I didn?t I think they can talk in the sense that they?ve all grown up in it. 11 AG000203 RNG: Mhmyour dad Truman? Is that his name? A - AB: TM: AB: TM: AB: RNG: AB: RNGit. And certainly Amy, in fact, your own family as opposed to the Stubbs girls. I have so many mothers or Whatever you want to call it. The Stubbs girls were basically dissidents but your family, they?re still active. Right? (unintelligible) Oh yes. Your dad. Very much. Mhm. They?re still active in basically the ?rst ward, right? And they pretty much, they don?t talk to you. Yeah. You?re, you?re shunned. You?re, you?re That?s where the word apostate comes in? Yeah, (laughs) whatever you want. Enemy. I?ve heard all these terms so I don?t know which, where to put them. I kind of, I don?t either. I keep hearing people referred to ?spiritual engagements? versus this ?spiritual marriages? and plural wives like we?re used to hearing. And celestial Wives. Is there, is there something different, I mean (unintelligible) (unintelligible) There, I would say there is. I mean not that I?m the expert. But probably con, converse l2 AG000204 MP: MP: AB: MP: TM: about it just like Amy. Marriage, doesn?t marriage mean like a, a married, you know. Like you?re the married one. Yeah, I?m the married one. - Then you?ve got the other ladies. There not married on this earth at this time. They are in a probation to, you know because we?re here on the earth on a probation. And what, what we do here on this earth will make it what we?are in heaven. 0k. How is that different from, what I understand, from, from people in, in the 'Jeff? group. That you still have plural wives and that, I mean, you?re not legally married in that sense but they are (unintelligible) celestial marriages. Uhuh. Is that do you guys have a different belief system than, than what they have or are we just using different terms. Or are we talking I think that probably all trying to head for the same (unintelligible) All got the same goals. ls just that we?re using different words here. I, I really I, I don?t necessarily I mean there are certainly some similarities but at least based on my discussions with William, again, he refers to it as a spiritual engagement. Aside from Amy, who is his first and legal and only legal wife. But with the others it?s a, a spiritual? engagement during what they refer to as this probation. And I think one of the words that he or kind of the phrases that he?s mentioned to me before was that we?ll just do the best we can. We feel like it?s our duty, our responsibility to have children. To raise them. To teach them right from wrong. To do the best we can with AG000205 TM: MP: TM: MP: TM: MP: AB: MP: AB: MP: AB: them. And we all have our free agency and we can go different paths. And some of these women may decide to go a different path or some of the children may decide to go a different path. And they have that right. And they have the right to do that. And then the way he described it to me was and then we?re going to let God sort it all out. At that point, in terms of whether or not there?s an ultimatehcelestial marriage or T'sealing" or whatever the case?may be. And ?so I, I do think i it there are some-differences or distinctions between the way they view it and the way ?l?ve ever heard described Right. over on the other side of the fence. I think he?s more of less trying to provide them with an oppOrtunity for if they want to have children that he?ll provide, he?ll be the father. He?ll provide for them and their children and do a lot of those things. But not get into a lot of the other things that, Right. that I thinkare issues. What we understand I might have said this to you before but you haven?t, haven?t (unintelligible). I?m not asking you because we?re worried about the, the plural marriage thing. Mhm. That?s not 'why we?re here. I?m just trying to understand the makeup of your family unit. Mhrn. To ?gure out where the other women and the other girls ?t in here. They?re mothers and they have their children and they (unintelligible) 14 AG000206 MPTM: 'But one of her questions might be and she maybe afraid to ask you that. But you consider MP71.1: Would you consider yourself a with, with these other women, do you work together like women would work in the plural marriages that, that we know of? (unintelligible) To consider them that, do you mean, are you family? Are you together like sister wives or? (unintelligible) I don?t go around and say. No we don?t call them wives or anything like that. Whatever, whatever label that you want to, to give it. yourself to be kind of the queen bee that you?re the ?rst wife No, no, no. That?s not what I?m asking at all. Ok. All right. No, I don?t. (Laughs) No, I I hope I don?t One situation that I can think of I?ve been, and I?ve mentioned to it before then before, they don?t have a school lunch program out in Colorado City. And so I?ve, I?ve been actually there before when all the?kids are bused home and they all start coming for lunch. And so I was going to ask you, And these children here at our house. You all work together in kind No. They?ve, they we don?t. The, the mother each feeds her on children. So you just don?t eat together. A (unintelligible) 5 AG000207 MPyou don?t We. can if we have big parties and let?s do something. But as an everyday thing we, we kind of all do our own thing. You segregate from each other. Your just kind (unintelligible) And you have your own life. . Uhuh. So when your kid, when the kids all come home from school, there?s abunch of them. - "You?re kids come to where you are and you ?x lunch for them and they leave. And Rosie?s go to her and (unintelligible) Or we might make a deal and, and do it together. You cooperate it seems like. Cause Claudia works and I cook and you know, there might be some of that. Ok. Like, like the laundry. Oh, yeah. We all do our own laundry. Trust me, you know. (Laughs) Do you all have your own washing machines? Uhuh. Or do you coordinate Um, no. They all have their own washing machines, fridge, stoves, apartments. What ever you want to call it. So you have like In fact down to ?nances. Separate ?nances, right? Yeah, get their own. How would you explain, how are things laid out in the house? 16 AG000208 ABTM: AB: What do you mean? Do you like, you know, these are my rooms and those are your rooms? Well everybody has their own territory or whatever. I don?t even . I mean, you Amy, have the house. You call it - I call it- But anyway, that?s your house, right? Right. And then there?s the big house Where Rosie and Claudia and their children live. And - when you?re out there, there?s a motor home and a ?fth wheel trailer. And you basically when you?re out at what they call -you spend most of your time in the ?fth wheel trailer, is that right? I do actually. (Laughs). I do. 0k. And Because of the meal time and stuff and Claudia has a little bigger kitchen. I?ll bring in and work with her or, you know, whatever. And then Roberta and Don?t have Are in the blue modular home. Yeah. They don?t have any school age kids. No. But it?s when you ask how it?s all separated out, the only ones that basically live in a common house and I don?t know how that one works is the big house, and Rosie and Claudia live there, right? 17 AG000209 ABTM: MP: AB: MP: AB: MP: AB: TM: AB: TM: AB: TM: AB: TM: Right. (Unintelligible) And how is that separated? Just they know how who?s (unintelligible) or what? They the Rosie has like the upstairs and Claudia has the down stairs. So would you consider all these other women, all five of you, to have Equals. a romantic relationship with William? No. Probably just me. And I don?t even See that, that?s the part I don?t understand. - i"don?t really even either. He?s not really romantic. A lot of men are that way, so. (Laughs) I mean, you know, twenty one years it wears out. (unintelligible) the women do you suppose all ?ve women have romantic You?d have to ask them. . Um, for him versus, you my brother?uncle. I wouldn?t know. I wouldn?t: know. But he, he takes you and he takes them occasionally takes them shOpping. He?ll take us shopping. He?ll take us out to dinner. He?ll take On your birthdays, for example, them too. He?ll take them to dinner or a show or something too, right? Mhm. Kind of a date, right? Yeah. But you go together all lot of times too, right? 18 AG000210 MPdoes do things, I mean, they do go out and they'go- occasionallyAB: Would he have dates with, with all the women? Either together or separately? Several women. I mean do you, would he kiss them the same way that he would kiss you? I wouldn?t know. (Laughs) I couldn?t tell you on that one. And you would have to ask (unintelligible) Right, right, right. Their'answers would. probably be that there isn?t a physical relationship. It?s like this. My kids couldn?t even tell you if they?ve seen me kiss. (Laughs) Yeah. It?s not a very often thing, but they do go to dinner and that sort of thing. Ok. I?m just trying to understand like you would see them and how they would see you and. It?s just really not a romantic. Well I realize some guys are not romantic, I don?t mean that in a sense that he doesn?t That doesn?t mean I don?t light him with the candles, but. bring you ?owers and light the candles. And even culturally I, I think. Let?s talk about your family that you grew up in, Amythat in your own family? Yeah. I saw my mom kissed. I?d seen my dad kiss other moms. Yeah, I did-I did actually. And, and my mom?s guys, they did live together. They?d each take a week. And cut that (unintelligible) In fact she still does. In fact I haven?t even talked to her I think I 9 AG000211 AB: TM: TM: AB: since, I went to the store and saw her in the store. It?s been probably a month. (Laughs) We were up there that day. You weren?t the only people we talked to. Have you heard much about what was going on? I really haven?t. Since the school?s kind of, they took everybody out of school. Then they don?t. I don?t hear much. Ok. They?didn?t, they don?t. :1 gotthe distinct'impression you guys didn?t like the cops up there. When you say "you guys" are you talking about the Blacks or are you talking about every one in Colorado City? Your family. All I?m, all I?m, your family right there. Well is I?ve heard all the people say Blacks. Well we don?t like the cops from Colorado City. Right. Yeah, right (unintelligible) Is it because they?re Ward One? No. It?s actually because of really um personal, you know, Oh. . come into the family. And I mean when we lived in the house in they came too because Tammy lived with her, Mhm. 20 AG000212 TMwas like swat teams raiding the house because Tammy had walked from her house. AB: TM: AB: TM: AB: TM: TM: AB: TM: RNG: moved in with her mother. She needed help. And she walked back home one night and they decided to come and get her. Tammy had And they swarmed our house. Yeah, absolutely. They swarmed our house I mean guns drawn. 1 mean William had me, I meanz It was spooky. I mean the kids were peeking under the window, freaking out. Her mother?s house. Her mother?sihouse. To where her children are. To where he lived. To where her children are. She did it and. Basically (unintelligible) if you want to look I mean (unintelligible) into separation between church and state, on the other side of the highway and who calls the shots. I mean Amy?s experienced all the persecution. Ah, basically they used I mean I?ll just say it this way. They used To I?ll call it as a pawn, to try to take away her children from William. And obviously she wasn?t capable of carrying for them. Mhm. TM: ?We?ve been through all the custody evaluations and 21 AG000213 AB: TM: AB: TM: AB: TM: everything but that was the, again, he?s a dissident considered an apostate and at one point in time they considered to take him on very actively and very aggressively. And I mean in terms of having a lot of bad law enforcement experiences. She come (unintelligible) this area. We moved, we moved out of -nd moved to They had the St. George cops come up to our house and literally took her (unintelligible). Oh, they jerked And he pulled him out of my hands and took my whole hair with me. I mean just and the kid was screaming. (Unintelligible) I mean, they jerk the kids right out of their hands and. I, I again when I say we?ve been to hell and back, we have. And Yes. after that came out to Black Hill and came, came out with all kinds of wild. accusations about things that have happened and, and. Well it was only like four cops. That?s active there. They?ve got a bunch that are certi?ed but they?re reserves. So you mean bunch of cops showing up, all four of them or just -a bunch of them. I wouldn?t know that. I mean that?s a new one on me. Are yOu saying out there or here? (unintelligible) In Colorado City, they only have four cops? They have four cops that are full time. That?s what I?ve been told. And the rest are volun, 22 AG000214 TM: AB: TM: AB: TM: AB: AB: MP: TM: AB: AB: MP: TM: AB: not volun. They?ve been to the academy, they?re certi?ed 00ps. They work on weekends or part-time. That sort of thing. Work weekends and stuff like that. I just, I wouldn?t really know. I haven?t No. They de?nitely have a very negative law enforcement experience. With that town. Um, Even in St. George. It was pretty. the guy, the guy that came to our house, he literally opened, I mean, walked through my house cause we ditched in a room. I was Scared. Mhm. was like getting William on the phone, what do I do. They are, there are cops swarming the house. But was speci?cally to do with the Tammy situation, right? Right. Yes. Yes. But the, but the cops still walked in my house. Can they do that? Not unless they have a search warrant. Can they walk through, up the stairs and. Unless somebody invited them in. No. Or if they had papers saying they had a right to the children and they know for a fact the children are in the house. I mean it was Amy?s house and she was in charge. Yeah if CPS is involved We?ve had AG000215 (END OF A) (Start of Tape/Side B) TM: uh, there?s no question about that. Since ninety-two, ninety?four. MP: Anything other than stuff having to do Tammy?s kids. TM: Oh and everything else they could. I mean that?s Where it Started but obviously with these other 'gii?ls. If they feel like they can get some kind of AB: They will (unintelligible) TM: ?but they?ll try. I mean there?s no doubt,_ there?s no doubt in my mind about that. RNG: 0k. Well I?m going to end this because my tape is going to run out. But it?s approximately twelve oh ?ve. And we?re end interview, end the interview at this time. 24 AG000216 STATE OF ARIZONA OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS SECTION TRANSCRIPTION REPORT DATE OF RECORDING: 06-17?2001 NUMBER: 01-0114 CASE NAME: Colorado City REPORT TYPE: Telephone Conversation - Ruby AGENT: RNG SUPERVISOR: GTF PAGES: 35 SPEAKERS ON THE RECORDING ARE: NAME: DESIGNATION TYPE: Les Zitting LZ James Zitting JZ Flora Jessop Flora Jessop Sgt. Steve Stovall Sgt. Stovall THE BELOW LISTED RECORDING DEVICES WERE USED: (Signature) (Date) LZ: This is a recording. A telephone recording between myself. Les Zitting. and my younger I LZ: LZ: .lZ: LZ: JZ: LZ: LZ: .lZ: LZ: .lZ: LZ: .lZ: LZ: JZ: LZ: .lZ: LZ: .lZ: brother .lames?Zitting. who is the chauffeur for Fred essop. This was on June seventeenth. two thousand and one. Hello. Hi. Les. You looking for me? Who is this? This is Ll. who? James. Your brother. Oh. my gosh! (laughing) I didn't expect you to call me. Oh. (unintelligible) called and asked about mother? I sure did. How. how you doing James? Pretty good. How is mom? She's doing real well. Yesterday morning she quite a headache but by noon she was feeling a lot better. And she went to meeting and Does she get headaches a lot? Not a lot. Pretty much the same as she always has it seems like. Uhuh. You know. she used to get: these mean headaches once in a while. Uhuh. And a but not too bad. Well i know that I had talk with her the other day and she made a comment that they have got her on steroids. What do steroids do for that? Do you know? I don't know. (Unintelligible) AG000218 LZ: LZ: .lZ: LZ: (laughing) I don?t know either. I rnean l?ni. I?m de?nitely not medical anything. Just I just I don?t know what it does for her. But she. she tells me that when she's on the steroids Uhuh. that she can only take it for a certain amount of time. Uhuh. Then she has to back off and then after a period of time she can go back on it. But she tells me that when she's on it. it reduces the problem. Uhuh. And when she goes offof it the problem just starts all oyer again. Wow. And I thought well that's weird. Yeah (laughing). \R?hy even keep doing this. You just can't keep doing this. That?s for sure. \K'hat is going on and I so I was just wondering if you knew what the steroids does. it you David would probably know more than I do cause he?s the one that takes her to the doctor and Well he don't like to talk to me though. (Laughs) (laughs) How you doing Janies?? I?m doing quite well. Are you sure?? DJ AG000219 .lZ: LZ: .IZ: LZ: LZ: .lZ: .IZ: LZ: Ah yeah. Promise. (Laughing) Huh? Yes. 1 promise. (Laughing) Well I had. I had never expected to have you call me. 'l?hat kind of blows me away. Well. (Laughing) Do you. do you still love me? Well. yes but 1 sure don't appreciate what you're doing but you. you do what you got to do. And we do what we got to do. You do still love me but you don?t understand where I'm at do you? Yeah. that?s true. Well. And I. [just almost. well. just wish it was could be different but it?s the way it is. I know. Can I ask you kind ofa personal question?? Being as you. being as you chauffeur Fred? Can do you. do you know where (unintelligible) do you know where- is? Well I haven?t made it any of my business and business then he would tell. And there?s a lot that I know but a lot that I don?t. No. I don?t. (Laughs) You do not know where she?s at. he seen her around. Since. since. since she went back to Fred?s. you?ve seen her around? Sure I have. So she?s in town at there? 1 don?t know. 1 don?t know if she is or not. AG000220 LZ: .lZshe's in town out there? I don?t know. I don?t know if she is or not. Oh. So youjust don?t. you just really don?t know. No. don't. Well haye you seen her around the last two weeks? Yep. Well. that?s weird. (laughs). Soniebodys lying to us. (laughing) (unintelligible) Huh? I don?t know. I don?t know what information you?ve got. but she's been around And shes doing good? 1 know one thing and that is was there personally when the day after she came back. . Uhuh. She was sitting there with her family. Uhuh. She was in tears. And she?s says. ?You guys don?t know how glad I am to be back." Uhuh. That?s what she said and I listened to it. Uhuh. So people that say that she's there against her will. no true. Not at all. Why then don?t she contact the authOrities and tell them that? Hey. She has talked to the authorities. The authorities ain?t telling you eyerything. And U1 AG000221 .lZ: LZ: LZ: .lZ: LZ: the reasons why they're not is because of her age. Well we understand that she. that someone has talked to the authorities. We don't know for a fact that it?s her. Well. they've had good contact with her. So they have actually met her. You bet. And that?s good. You bet. And know for a fact that. yes there was a time when she thought that maybe she wanted to leave but after she was gone for a while. how ever many days it was. She was mighty glad to be back. She says. found out that isn?t what I want." That what isn't what she wants? (unintelligible) To leave you mean? The lies that the world had to offer. But did But the life that her brother had to offer her. L?huh. (unintelligible) 1 know that much. Huh? I know that much. And. ofcourse. I don't even know who her brothers are. In fact. the truth is I?ve never met. The truth is I've. I?ve never rue-Background noise) Well I don't know her. I AG000222 JZ: LZ: LZ: LZ: .lZ: LZ: LZ: JZ: LZ: JZ: LZ: don?t. 1 know yery few people because it?s been so long ago. Yeah. I. I just want you to know James. I?m not against you. Well. 1 know that but. Do you? There?s a. there's a whole lot less to this that you guys are doing than what you are pumping up. Cause there?s. there's so very. very. little of this and Little of what? l?ye never eyer seen anybody. that I?ve seen. anybody forced to stay here. Haye you eyer. haye you eyer talked to Flora Jessop?? Yeah. I'll say i haye. Have you? I was. I was yery much a part of what Flora was doing before she eyer left. (unintelligible) (unintelligible) And are you saying that everything that Flora says is a lie?? No. She was not forced to stay there. You?d haye gone any time just like you and I could. Huh. She was not forced to stay to that in. in that in this community. Really?? She just loyes it. Not one time. Not that know of. She could haye gone at any time. Do you guys ever get rid of people? AG000223 LZ: JZ: LZ: LZ: JZ: LZ: .th LZ: .lZ: LZ: .th .lZ: LZ: .lZ: (laughs) Not that I know of. Huh?? What do you mean get rid of them? Does Sam Barlow takes certain people and. and. and. and get rid ofthem'? I don't know. (Laughs) You don't know'? (unintelligible) know what Sam does. (Laughs) Huh?? I don?t know what Sam does. Well. I want to tell you. Sam Barlow. himself. personally got rid of Leslie and Paul Zitting. Well. it was after you guys done what you had done. Oh! We were bad guys. Yeah. Man. We were bad. (Laughs) (laughs) We were wicked. Yeah. Yeah. It was after. after we all did what we did. asn't it?? I don?t know anything about that. (Unintelligible) Well. my point was Sam Barlow drove us out of town and got us rid of us. So it does happen. And. and our feelings were when while during. during the trip. While it was happening. Uhuh. AG000224 LZ: .lZ: you guys were just a little bit too damn spunky for us. man. HaughS) Sorry about that. Huh? Sorry about that. You?re just. I don?t we need to hear. And we want you to. to just go back home to your mothers in Salt Lake City and. and be good little boys. Well. what's wrong with that? l-luh. Whats wrong with that? Well. you don?t understand. I understand that because-you wasn?t part ot?it. (unintelligible) You couldn?t possibly understand. Well I know one time Uncle Ray told me to pack up my stuff and leaye. And that was because he thought I was messing around with one of his ladies. Oh. did he? And you know what? What? He ?nd out that I wasn?t Paul. That you wasnt what? Paul. Who's Paul. Your brother. (Laughs) AG000225 LZ: .th LZ: LZ: JZ: LZ: .lZ: LZ: LZ: JZ: LZ: .lZ: LZ: JZ: LZ: He thought that Paul was messing around with one of his ladies?? He was. I was witnessed of it. Really"? Yeah. \R'ho was I messing around with James?.7 I don't know. Huh?? don't haye any idea. \R'ho was I messing with? I don?t eyen know. And probably nobody. Hmm. Ok. So. so. so Paul was messing around with one of Leroy Johnson?s women?? Well. well he just. he wasn't messing around with her. He was just being too friendly. Oh. he was friendly with Dorothy. Right. He was friendly with Dorothy. He was being too friendly. I was (unintelligible). was there. Well I got to go. He's just driving away right now. Hey. James. Thanks for calling me and letting me know about mom. I sure do appreciate it. All right. Thank you. Yeah. You bet. Bye. (END OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION) Flora Jessop: Was May twenty-?fth was the ?rst one. 10 AG000226 Les Zitting: Flora .lessop: Les Zitting: Flora .lessop: Les Zitting: Flora .lessop: Les Zitting: Sgt. Stox'all: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stox?all: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: OR. The second one was May twenty-ninth. 0k. And then June ?fth was the third one. Hmm'? And they were all with Stoyall? Yep. 0k. Ms. Jessop? Yes. it is. (unintelligible) Yes. Ok. This is Sergeant Stovall with the Sheriff's Of?ce. lli Sergeant. How are you today? 0k. How are you doing? Pretty good. I understand you were up here in Washington County. Are you over in (unintelligible) right now? Uh. no l?in not. Oh. (Unintelligible) I am going to be this afternoon. 0k. Anyway dispatch told me that you had some questions. something concerning your sister- Yes. What can I do for you today?.> ll AG000227 Flora .lcssop: Sgt. Stovall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stovall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stovall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stovall: l-?lora Jessop: Sgt. Stovall: Um. what I would like to know is she was taken against her will and taken back to Fred .lessop's house. Why hasn't someone gone in and gotten her yet? She?s fourteen years old. (unintelligible) spent the last two days investigating that. And at this point we have absolutely no evidence to suggest that she was kidnaped. In fact. it?s all to the contrary. Uh everything that we've been able to determine up to this point is that she is not in any danger. She is safe. She's with her mother and step-lather. I guess. Fred. Mhm. They're out of town. traveling. is? Uni. well as far as 1 know it'-her mother and step-father and 1 don?t know who else. Do you know happen to know where they are? have. no I don?t. I haven?t been able to ?nd out. The Chiefof Police. Sam Roundy. has spoken to them by phone. But he said he did not know their whereabouts. Um I have (unintelligible) Chief Roundy. indicated to. you know. got the information to Fred and what?s the mother?s name? Pat? Pat. Pat? That I would like to have .3rought into Saint George. you know. so that I can interview her in a neutral setting. Which would be the (unintelligible) Justice. (Unknown background noise). (unintelligible) All the information that I've been able to get back from Chief Roundy. and also AG000228 Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stovall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stovall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stovall: Flora .leSSOp: Sgt. Stovall: from one of the other officers out in Colorado City. (Unintelligible) that it will occur but I don't know what date. They're suppose to contact me and let me know when they?ll bring her in. But Chief Roundy indicates that he doesn?t (unintelligible) which happened to be on a. on a trip. a family trip. lt' not. ok. It is not a family trip?? Well. you know. until I knew what I?ve been told Right. I have know. I don?t have any evidence to the contrary. Like I said. everything that I?ve been able to find out-tot in any danger. Uh. as far as I know. I?ve happened to find out. And. and you found that out through Roundy. right? Well this is through. yeah. through Roundy and through different people we've talked to. that there never was a marriage ceremony. There was to. Well. l?mjust telling you what we've been told. We've been told that there wasn' t. Flora .lessop-old me herselfthere was. Sgt. Stoyall: Flora Jessop: Sgt. Stovall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stovall: l-luh. Would you be willing to give us a written statement to that effect? Yes. I would. The other thing is even if there was a marriage ceremony. that we?ve also been told (unintelligible). And that is bull shit too. Yeah. And where did that come from? Flora .lessop: - AG000229 Sgt. Stoyall: thats you see. that?s the reason I need to talk to-nd I think Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoy'all: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoy'all: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoy?all: Flora .Iessop: Sgt. Stoyall: Flora .Iessop: Sgt. Stoyall: (unintelligible) actually will talk to - l?m going to tell you something that about talking to- Go ahead. Right now since she has been taken back. I know. I went through this years ago. Mhm. She. when you question her Mhm. she is going to tell you that is ok. Right. And the reason for that is she has been threatened. My mother has been threatened. My little brother has been threatened. Their liyes have been threatened it" she talks. Now when you say your brother. are you talking about Joseph at No. I'm talking about Lyman. the one left in Fred?s house. Oh. ok. (Unintelligible) 'l?hat. that is how they work. 1 know. I have been through this. Ok. Are you going to be out of town on Monday? I don't know. I liye in- and was. I am going to apply For custody Uhuh. Yeah. you're basically within your rights to do that. But. you know. you don't know. if you have ever worked with law enforcement before on these. you haye go by the facts that we have in front of us. 14 AG000230 Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: And I know that at the same time. you You know. we just can?t go and kick the doors down just because somebody says. 1 know. But you know what. you guys. don't even understand what these. what these kids are going through out there. Yeah. And you can?t understand because you?re not part of it. Sure. But the emotional. um. the emotional stuffthat they put these kids through. The. the mental abuse and the um is you can?t even comprehend what it is these kids go through. Yeah. well I?m sure you?re right. I. you know. it?s hard for me to imagine that. But you know. it I called them out there yesterday. That a I told Chief Roundy and I also told (unintelligible) Barlow that. you know. the of?cer that was working with yesterday that. you know. our concern is. is the welfare of the child. If we have any indication that. you know. that she is in danger and we make eyery effort to protect her. up to the point we don't haye anything. Eyerybody we?ve talked to says she's tine. Even her brother say that she is line. Which brothers?? Robert and Joseph. Ok. And Amy. who is Robert's wife. Uhuh. you know. she was (unintelligible) everything that?s-is doing. right now everything that she?s done. you know. past month or so been of her own free will. AG000231 Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: Flora .iessop: Sgt. Stoyall: Flora .iessop: Sgt. Stoyall: Flora .iessop: And she was not kidnapped. She?s doing fine. She simply wanted to get away from her husband and go back to her family. And didn?t want to be married. And her husband lives as her step?brother in Fred's house. Right. yeah. Now. you know. that?s nonsense. (Uninteiligible) But. you know. I can. I can kind of understand where you?re coming from. And. you know. if we can. if we can come up What is the marriage age in Utah?? Well in Utah. 1 think it's fourteen. Well at the age of fourteen they can?t giye consent. At the age of ?fteen a marriage can take place but it has to be with (unintelligible). Ok. Then. you know. and that's. that?s the civil marriage. (Unintelligible) where you buy the marriage license. Right. But (unintelligible) But (unintelligible) my de?nition of marriage. I don't know if. you know a religious (unintelligible)in and of itself (unintelligible) a person may run into some problems with the. you know. strictly religious ceremony where say a fourteen year old girl was married to an adult male and then the marriage was consummated then. you know. you would prosecute necessarily on the. the marriage angle. you know. the sex abuse. Right. From what I understand Warren. Warren .ieffs. has declared that legal marriages will no longer happen out there. 16 AG000232 Sgt. Stoyall: l?lora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: l-?lora Jessop: Sgt. Stoyall; l-?lora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyallz lilora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: l-?lora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: lfhuli. l-?or the simple reason that the law has no baring on what God wants. Yeah. well. yeah see in the law in Utah is. is recently changed. I tried to intet'yicw Warren Jeff?s yesterday and. and he didn't want to talk to me. And I suspect that when they do make a statement it?ll be through. you know. their attorney. Right. Basically (unintelligible) told us nothing. And. you know. the law has changed it's so new that we don?t even have a copy ot?it yet. All though I'm going to get on the inter iet tonight and look it up. But Right. It?s a. it took effect I belieye on April thirtieth. And it has something to do with. you know. making it against the law for anyone to arrange a marriage. you know. for a minor. Or perform a marriage. 01? perfonn a marriage. Right. And see that's why the can?t afford for her he get brought down her to me. And the other thing that we?re doing that. you know. I (unintelligible) is that [We talked to social seryices today. I?m giy ing them a chance to bring - in and it that doesn?t happen then we?re going to go through. well 1. 0k. thats. you know. legally that?s the only way AG000233 flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: lilora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall?. lilora .lessop: Sgt. Stoy'all: l-?lora .lessop: Sgt. Stoy'all: lilora .lessop: Sgt. Stoy'all: lilora .lessop: know. go that route. So. And what happens if they don't bring her then if you know. ifthey resist those efforts then ofeourse. you know. (unintelligible) creating (unintelligible). But it would become a criminal activity for them (unintelligible). And because. oh gosh. You know. it?s not in their best interest if. if. if their interest is in maintainirg yot; know. their secret society and all (unintelligible). It's not in their best interest to not bring-n because itjust draws that much more attention to them. Kids. be quiet. 'l?hat's what I explained to Sam Roundy yesterday is. you know. and he understands that and he says that they?ye been through this a couple oftimes in the past and it?s they understand that it?s in their best interest to bring her in. Yeah. And not. you know. (untelligible) out there with mom and dad sitting across the table from them but for them to bring her in here where I can interyiew (untelligible) And she?s going to be terrified when she comes into you. Yeah well. you know and I don't. I don't doubt it. But hopefully. you know. in the setting that we'll be (untelligible) Center she won?t haye contact with mom or dad or anyone. It was completely her and myself and a social worker. If there was any way possible I would like to be there just for the simple fact that 18 AG000234 think that she would trust me. (Long pause) (Phone line disconnected). LZ: You cut me off. Flora .lessop: It. I lost tny call. LZ: Oh. I see. Well it ended right where you said if. if you could possibly be there at the interview because just because she would trust you. Then it cut off. Flora .lessop: Ok. Pretty interesting though. huh? LZ: Oh yeah. Now that was on the twenty. twenty-?fth? Flora .lessop: Yes. LZ: That was on Friday night. Flora .lessop: Yes. this is on Friday night. LZ: 1 tell you what. they. Sam Roundy and all those people are lying. Flora .lessop: 1 tell you what they?re all screwed. LZ: They are lying. (unintelligible) Flora .lcssop: You know what else is interesting? LZ: What? l-?lora .Iessop: He says he talked to Amy and she said she that-had said she never. she wasn?t forced into anything. That is such a big lie. LZ: Oh. I know it is. You know what they did to you. Flora .lessop: Because you know what Amy told me. she never said one word to them. LZ: Really?? Flora .lessop: She never. she was in the room she never said a word. LZ: Flora .lessop: As a matter of fact she tried to get a hold ofthis son-of-a-bitch to tell hitn she. she (Unintelligible) because they wouldn?t let her put in her statement that anything 19 AG000235 WW that. that anything other than that she had witnessed with her eyes. . 11%: Are you telling me that everybody involved is not telling the truth? Flora .lessop: Yes. I am. @3549? Flora .lessop: And you know what. the saddest part about it is or 1 don?t know if it's the saddest or the best we hate it on tape proying it. Right. Flora .lessop: But they wouldn?t. they wouldn?t let. they wouldn't let her put in her statement Ilia-old her anything or my brothers. I can guarantee you. even it'omes in. it?s going to take seyeral days before she will really tell the truth. Flora .lessop: That?s what I told him. She?s not going to tell you guys the truth. 1% And I'll bet you she?s got drugs in her system. Flora .lessop: Wouldn?t sulprise me (unintelligible). l< Flora .lessop: And I wouldn?t be surprised if she?s pregnant. l-lmh. Well this is going to be interesting. Flora .lessop: Ok. let me finish this tape for you. ['lsZ: All right. Flora .lessop: Ok. Let me see ifthis is at the right place. Sgt. Sloyall: (unintelligible). Flora .lessop: I?ll just start it right here. Sgt. Stoyall: (unintelligible) or anyone else. It was completely her and myself and a social worker. AG000236 Flora Jessop: Sgt. Stovall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stovall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stovall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stovall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stovall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stovall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stovall: Flora .lessop: lfthere was anyway possible I would like to be there just for the simple litet that 1 think she would me. know she would before she would trust you Yeah. You know ifthat?s possible 1 don't have a problem with that. You know. I don?t have problems with anyone being there. You know we're not going to put on [just think that you guys are going to get the true story with here right now. Especially after her spending whatever time she is spending there with them. Yeah. you know you and could be right. I?m not saying you're not. you know I'm just the law being what it is. you know. (unintelligible) Yeah?l know. people a lot ol?times that sometimes the private citizen has more clout. you know. more has more options than a law enforcement of?cer does in situations like this. Right. And you don?t have any idea where they've taken her'? We have. no we don?t. I. I?ve asked Sam that. Sam told me he. he doesn't even know. (unintelligible) I'm sure Sam's not lying to me because. you know. And they can certainly say that he doesn't know and be hottest about it. Right. l?m sorry what was your name again?? I?m Steve Stovall. 0k. [f you lind anything out can you please call me back? Yeah. I've. I?ve got your number written down here.? Right. AG000237 Sgt. Stoyall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyallz Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: Flora .Iessop: Sgt. Stoyall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: Ok. Sure. My husband has had contact with the authorities in Arizona. Uhuh. And if she was in Arizona could do something about this. Yeah. But being as it?s Utah. Yeah. it?s a different state. You know and. this is another problem that we're got and we discussed last night is the. see worked on this thing until two o'clock this morning. But one of the problems we have is we?ye heard that. yes there was a marriage ceremony but we don?t know whether it took place in Arizona or whether it took place in Utah. Utah. So. we have. you know. I know. (laughs) I know. you know there's. there?s a lot ofloose ends there but hopefully il?. well our hope is that we can get .md she?ll tell us the truth. How long are you giving them to bring her in? Well the weekend. you know this is a holiday weekend. My. my gut instinct is that their going to. where ever they?re at. they're going to be gone for the weekend and they?ll be back on either Monday or Tuesday. Ok. So 1. I would. I would expect probably not to happen until Tuesday but 1 AG000238 l-?lora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: l-?lora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: l'lora lessen): Sgt. Stoyall: Hora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: l?lora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: l?lora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: l-?lora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: Flora .lessop: would expect not 'I?ttesday if. if we hayen't heard from her that. You know and the other problem is. you know if we feel like on Tuesday they hayen't brought her in Right. And you know that will give a little bit to go on. (lhiintelligible) lt?. il?nothing else il?thcy do bring her in on Tuesday. (?ould you let her call me without her parents knowing about We can try. yeah. But 1 don?t Ask her if she would like to contact her sister without anybody knowing. Mhm. and let me talk to her. Sure. Yeah. 1 don?t haye a problem with that. If we can that. sure. Because that way you may be able to get some truth out of her il? she knows that I?m. that I'm here for her. Mhm. ok. We'll give that a try. I would appreciate it. Yeah because yott know our interest is. is maybe not the same as yours but our interest is to protecting the child. That?s that only thing that want is her protected. And if we felt like. you know. that she was in any danger right now because it was dangerous. You know (unintelligible) Physical. maybe not mental. AG000239 Sgt. Stoyall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoy?all: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: Flora .Iessop: Sgt. Stoyall: Yeah. De?nitely. Yeah know and I have. there?s no doubt about that. you know we want to protect her interests. You know. the mental programming so. Right. Well i appreciate your time (unintelligible). I?ll be back in the of?ce on Monday. 0k. And what. what is your phone number? My number at the of?ce here i- Mhm. 0k. (unintelligible). Ok. I?m not always there but leave a Voice mail and I always get back to my yoiee mails. 0k. And I appreciate and I guess I?ll be looking to hearing from you on 'l?uesday. Ok. Pretty good. You never know. maybe I?ll be there. You know. you know if anything happens between now and then I'll. l'll giye you a call. 'llhank you. 0k. 0k. All righty. AG000240 Flora .lessop: Bye. Sgt. Stoyall: Bye. bye. (Phone line disconnected) Flora .lessop: Hey. 1.7.: Yeah. Flora .lessop: Did you notice that he ?nally admitted that yes he had been told il? he was ishy- washy on the marriage deal. LZ: Right. Flora .lessop: He ?nally admitted. oh yes that we it has been admitted that there de?nitely was a marriage but we just don't know which state it took place in. l.Z: That's right. Flora Jessop: So he lied to me. LX: I noticed that. Who which who was the Sam that he meant. that he mentioned?? Flora Jessop: Sam Roundy. the? LZ: Oh ok. ok. Flora .lessop: That was the end ol?that conyersation. All right. Flora .lessop: Now we go with the one that took place on May twenty-ninth. ?l?his is the lnestlay when he was going to go out and make see if she was back. Right. Flora .lessop: Ok. (Starting next recording) Steye. Flora .lessop: Hi Steve. 'l'his is Flora IQ Ul AG000241 Sgt. Stovall: lilora .lessop. how are you?.? I wasjust talking to you about or talking about you to social services. (Laughs) Flora .lessop: You were? Sgt. Stovall: I?ve got them on the other line here. We're trying to decide it e're trying to l?lora .lessop: Oh. they haven't produced her. huh'.? Sgt. Stovall: Well. she called me on Friday night. She wouldn't tell me where she was at. She told me she was doing line. You know. she asn't being mistreated. She said there?s never been a marriage (unintelligible) sex between her and (unintelligible). She?s not being mistreated. but she was not kidnaped. She?s sate. happy. secure. She is with her mother and that's all she would tell me. She would not consent to an interview. you know. thee-to-t?ace interview (unintelligible) or you kttow (unintelligible). She would not tell me when she was coming back. So any way -Well I?ve got to go through social services. 1 notitied them last over the weekend. last Friday or Saturday. (Unintelligible) I told them that it they had not produce-for an interview. you know. by today that we could do it. I think that?s what I told you too. l?loralessop: Right. Sgt. -red and mom. you know. to have them produce-for an interview. li'loralessop: 0k. 36 AG000242 Sgt. Stox'all: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stox'all: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stox'all: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stovall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stovall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. StOVall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stox?all: Flora .lessop: Sgt. St0\'all: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stm'all: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stovall: Flora .lessop: That's where we're at now. So that should when take place today? Yeah. yeah. We?re going to try to get that done today. One of the things I?report done so I'm going to have that so I can take o\'er. And (unintelligible) got that started (unintelligible). A lot of work to do on that report. Right. But anyway that?s where we?re at now. Ok. I was going to give you a call as soon as I get off (unintelligible) with social services. Ok. I beat you to it. You did. (laughs) Anyway got them on the other line. so. 0k. Could you keep me updated on what's going on with this? You bet. If we get the order then I'll. I'll get back with you and let you know if it?s been served. I would appreciate it. See where we go from there. 0k. Ok'? Thank you. You bet. Bye. bye. AG000243 Sgt. Stoyall: Bye. bye. (End of phone recording) LZ: You there? Flora .iessop: Could you get that one?? LZ: I did. That was a bad recording though. wasn?t it. Flora .lessop: Yeah. LZ: Yeah. But 1 did. I did hear inost ofit. Has he contacted you at all eyen once?? Flora .lessop: Nope. Not since that initial phone call. LZ: i don't think he will either. Flora .lessop: I doubt he will. LZ: (unintelligible) from social from child protectiye services says Les we're going to do this right and I will keep you informed and da?da?da?da-da-da-da?da?da. And I hayen?t heard a word. Flora .lessop: Yep. LZ: Nor will we. Flora Jessop: No. I don?t think so either. LZ: And to. by the way what ?fteen year old girl would talk like that? Flora .lessop: (unintelligible) LZ: l. haye not been married and I?m happy and secure and da-da-da-da?da-da-da-da?da. Flora .lessop: That's right. LZ: I don't Flora .lessop: And you know what I told my brothers about this LZ: (unintelligible) Flora Jessop: and they both said the same thing that I was thinking. 28 AG000244 LZ: What's that? Flora .lessop: It?s not-It'sher sister. Maybcl. 1.7.: Could be. I don?t tltink it was lither. There. Flora .lessop: -don't talk like that. LZ: And see Flora .lessop: Maybe] does. LZ: the truth is they can call this deputy and say what they want. And the deputy. whether he bclieyes it or not. all he can do is listen. But the is. is that they can lie easier than they can tell the truth. Flora .lessop: That's right. LZ: And. I mean. they're just they?ve just done that all their lives. Flora .lessop: (unintelligible) One more conversation. LZ: Ok. Flora .lessop: And this cuts off in the middle and there?s a space but we?ll skip that so. LZ: Ok. Flora .lessop: (Pause) Now I guess it's still dialing. so. LZ: That's all right. Flora .lessop: But what do you think? 1.7.: I think. I think I?m recording it good. Flora .lessop: Good. Ok. Here?s this other one. Flora .lessop: Hi. This is. this is Flora Jessop Sgt. Stoyall: Flora .lessop. Oh Flora. yes. Flora .lessop: And 1 was just wondering what?s going on. what?s happening with my sister 29 AG000245 Sgt. Stoyall: l-?lora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: l-'lora .lessop: Sgt. Stoy'all: l?lora .lessop: Sgt. Stoy'all: (tmintelligible). Oh. you know what. let?s see. I was going to call you the other night. \\'ent down to the. oh what I did. let?s see I think I told what I was going to do the other day. We took. I took one of the DOS workers oyer to Colorado City last 'l?hursday. tried. well the reason we did that is because the Attorney (ieneral?s ()I?lice is .Unintelligible) too many cases on my mind. Anyway produe-il' it comes through the Attorney Cieneral's of?ce through bel'ore they can. has to make an attempt at. you know. face-to face meeting with the joy enile. So that's the reason we went out there. (unintelligible) Knowing that she wasn?t going to be produced most likely the fact that she wasn't. However. Chief Roundy' hadn't been in contact. I did talk to your father. Joseph Senior. And explained to him what we were doing or why we needed to talk to .and all that. (Unintelligible) he was pretty well satislied. Well he then went to (?hiel' Roundy. who was ready to go on vacation. (.?hief Roundy somehow or another got in touch witl-ye still don't know where she's at but she's sale and eyerything with her mother and some other people and. and Joseph said that eyery year about this time when school's up. its family tradition to take yacation. (io somewhere. At any rate-ts agreed or the family. mom and dad. llilkl agreed AG000246 lilora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: Hora .Iessop: Sgt. Stoyall: l~lora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Sloyall: l-?lora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: to bring-in when she gets back which will three weeks from 'l'hursday. Three weeks from 'l'hursday'.? Yeah. from last Thursday. So and a couple of weeks or two and a hall' weeks we should be able to interview nd meet her. so. We?re not. you know. not certain on the exact date yet. But they did promise they'd bring her in. so. \\?hen she gets back from her trip. You know that?s I ah (laughs). it be nice if we knew exactly where. ln l?act one thing we even suggested was il?they would tell us where she?s at we could contact an agency in that area. haye them do a courtesy interyiew tor us. You know just to face?to face meeting make sure she is all right. And look we don't know where shes at so we can?t do that. l?hey refused to give you that. huh?? Yeah. Not surprising. So that's kind of where we?re at. So now we've got to wait (unintelligible) because they haye agreed? we could be but all they would do is stall. you know. for what e\ er period a time anyway. You know. it?sjust easier to. to do it. You know I?m. I?m not man the I would expect that they will not. you know. unless the three weeks passes and we don?t have-you know. to talk to or something. 9) AG000247 Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyallz Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyallz Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: Flora .lessop: Sgt. Stoyall: Right. You know the thing that. that. that was. I was thinking about was it'. il?. il' in fac- where she wants to be. Uhuh. hasn?t anybody seen her to so she can tell them that. You know. (Unintelligible) Meaning he's at my brother?s? Oh yeah. She told me when. when I talked to her she didn?t like her brother (laughs). Oh. please. (unintelligible) I?m just telling you what she told me. You know it?s odd that she would tell or say that to me when she had called him to come and get her. you know. a couple of weeks ago. For certain. You know. so. So that doesn?t. doesn?t hold much water. No. I wouldn't say that phone call at all holds much water. Yeah. At this point. 0k. 1 was just wondering what the status was on this. Yeah. One ofthe things that Joseph told me. Senior. is that where she's at there are no phones and can?t get out on a cell phone. So they have to get a message to where ever it?s at. And then they have to come out of where it's at to get to a phone.So. Hmm. And kind of. kind of halfjokingly I said well you know where 1 think she is and where and I said in your compound in Canada. (Laughs) So 1 don't. you know I 9.: lo AG000248 don?t know the slightest idea. Flora .lessop: Yeah. Ok. Well I guess we?ll wait to see now I guess. Sgt. Stoyall: Yes. that?s all we can do. Flora Jessop: (unintelligible) Sgt. Stoyall: And like. you know like I said if. il-ias been produced within. you know. within three weeks probably then the Of?ce then will start insisting that. you know then I you know we?re not going to have to insist very hard and the Flora .lessop: And it cuts. hang on. it cuts off right there. LZ: 'l'hat?s all right. I?ve got a question. Flora .lessop: What? LZ: I?m almost positive he said he personally talked to her. Flora .lessop: You know that?s kind of what it sounds like. huh? LZ: That?s what it sounds like to me. Flora .lessop: But he tells me he (unintelligible) he hasn?t seen her. LZ: That's right. Some someones not being honest. Flora .lessop: I can guarantee it. LZ: And I think it?s everybody involved. Flora .lessop: (unintelligible) LZ: Except for- Flora .lessop: I think it's a conspiracy between the (unintelligible) and the law enfrn'cement agencies. Just like I said to protect their ring of\\'hate\'e1? (unintelligible). LZ: Whatever. Lu Lu AG000249 Hora .lessop: 'l?here's no way these people. these sheriffs deputies would be protecting these people if they weren?t somehow involyed. 1.7.: I and another thing. He did say he took an DCSF of?cer with him. Flora .lessop: Yes. LZ: I?m almost sure that Steve or I mean that (unintelligible) told me that they had any contact or anything. Flora .lessop: That?s right. LZ: And I?m going to call in the morning before 1 send these tapes out and I'm going to Verify that with Jean and put that on the tape too. Flora .lessop: That?s right. That?s what they told us in the meeting that they hadn't gone out there. LZ: And I?m almost sure that's what they?: told us. So. so I want to. I want to verify that with Jean. Flora Jessop: (unintelligible) LZ: And to cause he said right on that tape. tape that he took a DC FS of?cer out with him. Flora Jessop: That?s right. LZ: Someone's in deep do-do. Flora .lessop: Yes. they are. LZ: Huh? l??lora Jessop: Yes. they are. LZ: So. whateyer. Just give u- Flora .lessop: That?s right. I guess this is almost done now. LZ: All right well I'm going to get offthe phone. And l'lljust talk to you later. Flora Jessop: 0k. AG000250 LZ: Please turn the tape over with a conversation with a child protective services and myself. Thanks. Bye. La.) U1 AG000251 Page I of 3 STATE OF OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS SECTION REPORT DATE WRITTEN BY AGENT: January 17, 2018 CASE NUMBER: SIS- 2017-0174 CASE NAME: Black, Orson REPORT TYPE: Initial Case Overview - Supplement #1 AGENT: SUPERVISOR: Chief Special AgentReginaid Grigsby, Lamerson, James Chief Special Agent On 1/21/18 at a roximatel 0900 hours myself, SA Connell SA Goldsb and SA Smith met with ?nality Fetish at the located at; ?The purpose of our visit in the Colorado City area was to contact (V) Beth Stubbs and (V) Roberta Stubbs to check their welfare as well as to obtain their statements regarding a previous investigation (AZAG P002-2001-0114) involving (3) Orson William Black. Upon arrival and contact with Deputy Felish he provided a contact telephone number for Shane Stubbs brother of Beth and Roberta Stubbs. Due to the fact that there was no telephone or cellular reception at the- drove near the Colorado City Municipal Aiiort and contacted him via cellular phone. Upon contact Shane Stubbs stated that he does not live in nd he was unaware of exact whereabouts, but stated that Orson Black has a residence across the street near the near a water tank. W9 this, at approximately 1000 hours we drove to the ocated at - Hildale, Utah and contacted ten Jones. While at this location we attempted to locate Beth and Roberta Stubbs through local contacts known to Jones. however we were unsuccessful in obtaining additional information. . Upon leaving the Wt approximately 1200 hours we drove to the address consistent to the location descn ane 5. should be noted that the address of this residence is unknown, however usin Goo le Ma the approximate latitude and'longitude of this location was deterW should be noted that this property is located on the east side of and located at the west side of the property is a modular residence and further east of this modular residence is a 2-story dwelling. There were also multiple vehicles parked around the property and in the front of both buildings. Myself. SA and Deputy Felish ?rst made contact at the modular building with SA's Connell and Smith surveilling nearby in their state vehicle. It should be noted that there were decorative cement step~stones placed in front of the residence and 1 observed that one of these stones had "William Amy Black" written on it. i knocked on the door and a male subject who identified himself as "Arlen Ziti? came to the door. The subject who identi?ed himself as Ziti stated that he was a renter at the residence and was a distant relative of Orson Black. Ziti consented to letting me to walk through the residence, however after a brief walk-though I did not observe Beth or Roberta Stubbs present. Following this Dep. Felish, SA and I walked to the adjacent 2-story residence and upon knocking on the door a subject that identified himself as Orson Black's relative "Seth" answered the do hen asked, he stated that neither Beth or Roberta Stubbs were present and stated that they were at the residence. When asked the address of-residence Seth responded that we knew where it was (when I told him that I did not, Seth did not provide any address). When asked Seth did not consent to a search of the residence and I provided him with my business card and the cellular telephone number of my cellular AG000252 Page 2 of 3 phone. Upon MW the driveway of the residence, at approximately 1254 hours I received a telephone call from A female on the line identi?ed herself as Beth Stubbs. i told her that was attempting to contact her in order to ensure her safety and she responded that she was not in danger. I then stated that i wanted to speak with her about the investigation from the 1990's and she responded that she already gave her statement. When I replied that she gave her statement almost 20 years prior as a juvenile she responded that she did not wish to speak with me without having her attorney present. It shouid be noted that during our conversation i asked Beth to meet in person so that I could verify her identity and she sent me a text message containing a photograph of herself holding her Arizona Driver's license (attached to this report). It should also be noted that advised Beth Stubbs that she was not considered the suspect in any crime. and she repeated that she did not wish to speak with me without having her attorney present. At this approximate time. at 1256 hours. I also received a telephone call from? The female on the line identi?ed herself as Roberta Stubbs. I told her that i was attempting to contact her in order to ensure her safety and she responded that she was not in danger. I then stated that I wanted to speak with her about the investigation from the 1990?s and she responded that she did not wish to speak with me without having her attorney present. it should be noted that Roberta advised that she wouid send me a text message with her photograph to prove her identity, however she also added that she had dif?culty using her cellular device. At this time this report is being submitted I have not received a photograph'from the subject believed to be Roberta Stubbs. I also advised Roberta Stubbs that she was not considered the suspect in any crime, and she repeated that she did not wish to speak with me without having her attorney present. It should be noted that SA provided me audio recordings of my contacts with Shane Stubbs. the female subjects believed to be Beth and Roberta Stubbs, as well as video recordings of our contacts at the believed residence of Orson Black. These were later placed on 2 along with the photograph sent by Beth Stubbs, and entered into Property and Evidence on 2/2/18 at approximately 0945 hours. At this time there is no further information. Investigation Continues RELATED PERSONS AG000253 Page 3 of 3 RELATED PERSONS Type: First Name: Middle: Last: AKA: Other Shane Stubbs Gender DOB: SSN: Hair? Eyes: Height: Weight: Race: ?ii I Cell: Work: Fax: Address: City: State: Zip: Email: Type: First Name: Middle: Last: AKA: Victim Roberta Stubbs Gender: DOB: SSN: Hair: Eyes: Height: Weight Race: Home: Cell: Work: Fax: Address: City: State: Zip: Email: Type: First Name: Middle: Last: . AKA: Suspect William Orson Black Gender: DOB: SSN: Hair Eyes: Height: Weight: Male Brown Brown - 5'10" Race: Home: Ceii: Work: Fax: White Address: City: State: Zip: Email: Type: First Name: Middle: Last: AKA: Victim Beth Stubbs . Gender: DOB: SSN: . Hair: Eyes: Height: Weight: Race: ome: Cali: Work: Fax: Address: City: State: Zip: Email: AG000254 Page I of 3 STATE OF ARIZONA OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS SECTION REPORT DATE WRITTEN BY AGENT: March 16, 2018 CASE NUMBER: SlS-2017-0'l74 CASE NAME: Black, Orson REPORT TYPE: 3/16/18 Case Activity - Supplement #2 AGENT: Lamerson. James SUPERVISOR: Chief Special Agent Reginald Grigsby On 3/16/18 at approximately 0834 hours I attempted to contact Beth Stubbs via telephone at however after the phone rang several times and an automated message stated that the voicemai a no been setup. Following this, at approximately 0835 hours I attempted to contact Roberta Stubbs via telephone at owever after the phone rang several times and an automated message stated that the voicemail had not been set up. At this time there is no further information. AG000255 RELATED PERSONS Page 2 of 3 Type: Filst Name Middie: Last: AKA: Victim Beth Stubbs Gender: SSN: Hair: Eyes: Height: Weigh Race: ome: Ce?: Work: Fax: Address: City: State: Zip: Emaii: Type: First Name: Middle: Last: Victim Roberta Stubbs Gender; DOB: SSN: Hair: Eyes: Height: Weight: Race: Home: Cell: Work: Fax: Address: City: State: Zip: Email: AG000256 Page 3 of 3 RELATED ATTACHMENTS W8601337.WMA 2. IA I W8601336.WMA AG000257