FOI Request Reference: DCYA 2018/104 Schedule of Records for FOI 2018/104: Summary of Decision Making Rec. No. Date of Record Brief Description Decision: No. of Grant/Part pages Grant/Refuse 1 4 19/08/2018?20/08/2018 Thread of emails between Minister Zappone Special Advisors Grant 2 1 21/08/2018 Email to Minister Zappone from Patricia Ryan, Special Advisor Grant 3 1 21/08/2018 Attachment to Record 2 Draft Letter Grant 4 1 21/08/2018 Email to Minister Zappone from Jerry O?Connor, Special Advisor Grant 5 2 21/08/2018 Attachment to Record 4 Draft Letter Grant 6 1 21/08/2018 Email from Minister Zappone to Special Advisors Grant 1 Re: Pope Katherine Zappone to; Jerry O'Connor 20/082018 12:21 Cc: patricia ryanz Good. 0k. Will you review words PR put together? And, see if you think any amendments to make it more straightforward but with same messages. Meanwhile, I will look at op ed now. 'lhanks Dr. Katherine Zappone, TD Independent Minister for Children and Youth Affairs Sent from my iPad On 20 Aug 2018, at 11:56, Jerry O'Connor? wrote: HI. Certainly I think going directly to the Pope certainly noteworthy in and of itself. Given the opportunity is so short (max 30 seconds?) introducing the t0pic. setting out 'The church needs to step up to the plate' in a better form of words and asking for a channel of communication is perhaps about as far as you could To have the door-opened - whether it ends being through a Cardinal, the Archbishop or Nuncio - would be a big success and allow for further more detailed engagement. it is the best possible outcome we could hope for lrom this very short engagement. Regards Jerry Katherine - to discuss 'sharc in costs to excavate and re-bury with dignity' From: Katherine ZapponelSLAlNTE To: pairicla ryan Dole: 2010812018 1 Subject: Re: Pope Jerry 7 Dr. Katherine Zappone, TD Independent Minister for Children and Youth Affairs Sent from. my iPad On 20 Aug 2013, at 10:57, patricia ryan2 wrote: Just my opinion and not in any way wedded to this. i think we need to focus on the Pope. it there are issues with the Dublin Archbishop - then the Pope is his "boss". We are going to the tap. I think there is nothing to lose by asking him a direct question - he may or may not otter a response. Even raising it with him is meaningful. it will, no doubt be the first time that it has been raised with him. Katherine Zapponeu-20/0812018 - to discuss 'share in costs to excavate and re-bury with dignity' From: Katherine ZapponelSLAlNTE To: panicla ryan we.? Data: 201080018 1 Subject: Re: Pope 0k. Let us not be overly speci?c. I like very much what is here. Question: Is it practical to ask him for a direct response? Will that get us what we want? What is role of Dublin Archbishop? Or, are we looking to make a more symbolic statement/ Dr. Katherine Zappone, TD Independent Minister for Children and Youth Affairs Sent from my iPad On 20 Aug 2013, at 10:35, patrieia ryan2 wrote: Ok. My suggestion is that we are not overly specific. i think the key message is that the Church needs to step up to the plate. Looking for a commitment on a course of action that has not yet been sanctioned by government will be risky. Also. I think you need to leave yourself room for manoevre. This does not in any way preclude you from giving a strong message and one that can easily be expanded on following the government decision by writing to the Pope as a follow-up. ?Welcome. i am the Minister for Children. i am responsible for the Tuam Mother and Baby Home, where children's remains were found in a sewage system. i hope that you. as Pope, and on behalf of the church will take responsibility and will make reparation for the part you played in this shameful chapter in Irish history. It is important that this commitment is made by the church. i would like to write to you with details of what i believe is needed. Will you respond? presumably he will respond in the positive and this then opens the way for us to engage with the church at the highest level? Also it might be worth getting a translation for ?is that a yes Pope Francis?" in case you need it. Katherine From: Katherine Zapponel To: Jerry O'Connor] Cc: patricie ryan Date: 19/08/2018 0: Subgect: RezF?ope wrote: To: Katherine Zappone From: Jerry O'Connor Date: 08/19/2018 Cc: patricia ryan2? Subject: Re:Pope Hi, Maybe i am over-thinking this but if 'shared costs' were to be put in public domain is there a danger some people could (incorrectly) see it as the setting of a precondition being set to reburial? Apart from that I think remarks hit the spot. We also need to discuss together if and when we will be putting remarks in public domain. Enjoy the match. Sent from IBM Notes Traveler Katherine Zappone Pope From: "Katherine Zappone? To: "patricia ryan2" "Jerry O'Connor" Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2018 9:34 AM Subject: I?opc Addendum - to dlscuss ?share in costs to excavate and re~bury with dignity' That puts out part of my preferred recommendation. Dr. Katherine Zappone. TD Independent Minister for Children and Youth A?airs Sent from my iPad 2? Draft 1 - Pope Francis letter patricia ryan2 to: Katherine Zappone, Jerry O'Connor 21l08l2018 16:23 Dear Pope Francis - Draft 1.docx Piease update the draft number per changes. Dear Pope Francis, Mother and Baby Homes came to public attention in the summer of 2014 a series of disturbing reports of high mortality rates and claims of pessibte burials of children on the grounds of the former Mother and Baby Home in Tuam Co. Galway. The then Government decided to have these matters investigated and a statutory Commission of investigation was established in February 2015. Since that date. the Commission has been examining a wide range of concerns related to the institutional care of unmarried mothers and their babies during the period 1922 to 1998. The Commission is examining 14 Mother and Baby Homes and 4 County Homes. it will in time provide a full account otwhat happened to vulnerable Women and chiidren in these institutions; how they came to be there; and the pathways they took as they left. An early focus of the Commission's work was to examine the Tuam site to address quastions about the alleged interment of human remains. As part of this process. the Commission conducted a series of surveys and test excavations, commencing in October 2016. i visited the site myself and met former residents and relatives shortly before these works commenced. The statutory Commission of investigation continued the presence of human remains on the site of the former Bon Secours Mother and Baby Home in Tuam, Co. Gaiway, The Home was run by the Ben Secours Sisters from 19254 961 in what was previously a workhouse dating back to famine times. in the 1970's the former home was demolished to make way for a local authority housing estate. A small memorial garden is maintained by local residents and there is also a children?s playground on the site. The Commission?s excavations have revealed that human remains are visible in a series of chambers that may have formed part of sewage treatment works for the Home. The Commission believes that there are a signi?cant number of children's remains there. it recovered some juvenile remains for detaiied forensic analysis. From this analysis. it has determined that the remains are between 35 foetal weeks and 2 to 3 years of age. From carbon dating it has correlated the age of these samples with the time period during which the home was in operation between 1925 and 1961. This news was met with widespread disgust both in lreland and abroad. There were suspicions about burials of this kind in Tuam for some time, and it was one of the reasons for setting up the Commission of investigation in the first place. However. it is fair to say that the con?rmation received from the Commission of investigation caused many people to demand that dignity and respect be afforded to the memory oithe children who lived their short lives in this Home. We also owe it to the families of these children to now do the right thing by their loved ones. The Commission has already noti?ed the focal coroner in north Gaiway of its ?ndings. and Gaiway County Council is aware of the matter also. We have now put in place a series of actions to ensure that we have an appropriate and respectful response to the discovery. Since then, i have instructed an expert team to do further work on the site to the options that are open to us to fulfil our duty to these children. The team has reported offering options including a complete excavation of the site and DNA analysis of the hundreds of remains contained therein. A consultation has also been carried out with survivors and local residents about what they would like to see happen on the site in Tuam. There was little compassion shown to the little ones and their mothers in this mother and baby home. We cannot change what happened to them. For the little ones whose remains are in a sewage system, we owe them dignity in death. For their mothers. siblings and families we need to give them some peace. it is my strong conviction that given the role of the Church in this shameful chapter of recent lrish history it must piay a practical role in addressing the hurt and damage. i believe that the church should contribute substantially to the cost of whatever option is decided by the government. This should be done wiltingty. unconditionally and quickly. Nothing tess will demonstrate remorse. i look toward to receiving your response. Yours etc. Lt. Draft 2 - Pope Francis letter Jerry O'Connor to: patricta ryan2 2110812018 16:40 Cc: Katherine Zappone This message has been replied to. Hi, Just some minor changes, the introduction and sign off of the ietter are as recommended for a non-Catholic when writing to the Pope. Regards .. .3411 Dearj?ope Francis - Draft 2.docx I- patri__wcia .anz Rei??ggqa'i 23110812041 8316:23214 From: patricia ryan To: Katherine Zappone . Jerry O?Conno? Date: 21/08/2018 16:23 Subject: Draft 1 - Pope Francis letter [attachment "Dear Pope Francis Draft 1.docx" deleted by Jerry Please update the draft number per changes. DearvPopo Francis. Formatted: Font: {Default} +Body(tailbri], 12 pt As Minister for Children and Youth Affairs and an indejsendent Minister of the Government of lreland i am writing to you in the hope that the church will acmt its responsibilities and -. 4: make reparation for its part in a very shameful chapter of irish history. Motherand Baby Homes came to public attention in ireiand during-in the summer of2014 fotiowing a series of disturbing reports of high mortality rates and claims of possible burials of children on the grounds of athe former Mother?antl?B-aby hi-iome ln Tuam Co. Galway. The then Government decided to have these matters investigated and a statutory Commission of investigation was estabiished in February 2015. tilncethat-daterlthe Commission has been examining a wide range of concerns related to the institutional care of unmarried mothers and their babies during the period 1922 to 1998. The Commission Is examining 14 Mother and Baby Homes and 4 County Homes. It will in time provide a full account of what happened to vulnerable women and chlidren in these institutions: how they came to be there: and the pathways they took as they left. An early focus of the Commission?s work was to examine the Tuam site to address questions about the alleged interment of human remains. As part of this process, the Commission conducted a series of surveys and test excavations, commencing in October 2016. ivisited the site myseif and met former residents and relatives shortly before these works commenced. The statutory Commission of investigation confirmed the presence of human remains on the site of the former Bon Secours Mother and Baby Home in The Home was run by the Bon Secours Sisters from 1925?1961 in what was previously a workhouse dating - I back to famine times. in the 1970?s the former home was demolished to make way for a tocai authority housing estate. A small memorial garden Is maintained by local residents and there is also a children?s playground on the site. The Commission?s excavations have revealed that human remains are visible in a series of - i; - chambers that may have formed part of sewage treatment works for the Home. The Commission believes that there are a significant number of children?s remains there. It recovered some juvenile remains for detailed forensic analysis. From this analysis, it has determined that the remains are between 35 foetal weeks and 2 to 3 years ofage. From . . carbon dating it has correlated the age of these samples with the time period during which 1.. . the home was in operation ?between 1925 and 1961. I This news was met with widespread disgust both in Ireland and abroad. There were suspicions about burials of this kind in Tuam for some However, it is fair to say that the confirmation received from the Commission of investigation caused many people to demand that dignity and respect be afforded to the memory of the children who lived their short lives in this Home. We also owe it to the families of these children to now do the right thing by their loved ones. . - .I .-. have now put in place a series of II '7 actions to ensure that we have an appropriate and respectful response to the discovery. Since then, i have instrutted an expert team to do further work on the site to determine the options that are open to us to ful?l our duty to these children. The team has reported offering options including a complete excavation of the site and DNA analysis of the hundreds of remains contained therein. A consultation has also been carried out with survivors and local residents about what they would like to see happen on the site in Tuam.g ,{Folrmallte?t Font: (Default) +Eody (Calibrl), 12 pl, Bold, Fo? - 83 . Jhere was little compassion-shown to the little ones and their mothers in thismotherand Q??omanm: Font: {Derauln was?; (Canon). i2 pt baby home. -- We cannot change what happened to them. For the iittie ones whose remains are in a sewage system. we owe them dignity in death. For their mothers. siblings and families we need to give them some peace. it is my strong conviction that given the role of the Church in this shameful chapter of recent irish history it most play a practical role in addressing the hurt and damage. i believe that the church should contribute substantiaiiy to the cost of whatever Option is decided by the government. This should be done willingly, unconditionally and quickly. Nothing less will demonstrate remorse. i look forward to receiving your response; With everyLbest yours. Wm Minister for ghiidren and Youth nilnir?: Yours etc. Re: Draft 2 Pope Francis letter . Katherine Zappone to: Jerry O'Connor 21f08/201816:45 Cc: patricia ryan2 May I sleep on this? I prefer dear pope Francis Sent from my iPhone On 2] Aug 2018, at 16:40, Jerry O'Connor? wrote: Hi, Just some minor changes. the introduction and sign off of the letter are as recommended for a non-Catholic when writing to the Pope. Regards (See attached ?le: Dear Pope Francis - Dra? 2.docx) patricia 16:23:14u-Ptease update the draft number per changes. From: patricla tyan To: Katherine Zappon . Jerry O?Connor? Date: 21I08f201? 16:2 Subject: Draft 1 - Pope Francis letter [attachment "Dear Pope Francis - Draft 1.docx" deleted by Jerry O?Conno-l Please update the draft number per changes.