1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT WESTERN DISTRICT OF MISSOURI WESTERN DIVISION IAN POLLARD, on behalf of himself and all others similarly situated, ) ) ) Plaintiffs, )Case No. vs. )13-CV-00086-ODS ) REMINGTON ARMS COMPANY, LLC, et al.,) ) Defendants. ) TRANSCRIPT OF EVIDENTIARY HEARING BEFORE THE HONORABLE ORTRIE D. SMITH AUGUST 2, 2016 KANSAS CITY, MISSOURI 10 11 APPEARANCES 12 13 14 15 16 17 For the Plaintiffs: MR. ERIC D. HOLLAND MR. R. SETH CROMPTON Holland Groves Schneller & Stolze 300 North Tucker Boulevard St. Louis, Missouri 63101 MR. RICHARD J. ARSENAULT Neblett Beard & Arsenault PO Box 1190 Alexandria, Louisiana 71315 18 19 20 MR. CHARLES E. SCHAFFER Levin Fishbein Sedran & Berman 510 Walnut Street Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19106 21 22 23 MR. TIMOTHY W. MONSEES Monsees & Mayer PC 4717 Grand Avenue Kansas City, Missouri 64112 24 25 1 Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 1 of 60 APPEARANCES (continued) 1 2 For the Defendants: 3 4 5 6 MS. AMY M. CROUCH MR. JOHN K. SHERK MS. MOLLY S. CARELLA Shook, Hardy & Bacon, LLP-KCMO 2555 Grand Boulevard Kansas City, Missouri 64108 MR. DALE G. WILLS Swanson, Martin & Bell, LLP 330 North Wabash Chicago, Illinois 60611 7 8 9 MR. JON SPROLE Remington Arms Company General Counsel 10 11 12 Also Present: The Mr. Mr. Mr. Honorable Glenn A. Norton Matthew L. Garretson Brennan Bilberry Joe Juenger 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 Gayle M. Wambolt, RMR, CRR U.S. Court Reporter, Room 7552 Charles Evans Whittaker Courthouse 400 East Ninth Street Kansas City, MO 64106 (816) 512-5641 23 24 25 2 Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 2 of 60 1 2 TUESDAY, AUGUST 2, 2016 THE COURT: This appears to be a convocation of the 3 regional and national bar. 4 together again in the case of Pollard v. Remington Arms 5 Company, LLC. 6 Welcome, everyone. We are For the record, the case number is 13-86. The hearing this morning is granted at the request 7 of the parties and follows a proposed settlement agreement 8 which was preliminarily approved by the court late last year. 9 Following the preliminary approval, the parties provided 10 notification to members of the class which resulted in the 11 filing of a limited number of claims in the case. 12 The court is informed that the number of rifles at 13 issue here is somewhere between seven and a half million to 14 seven point eight million, and the number of claims actually 15 filed was less than 3,000, which suggested to the court that 16 perhaps the notice given to potential claimants was inadequate 17 to trigger a representative, whatever that word means, a 18 representative number of claims. 19 And so I asked the parties to confer and submit to 20 the court for the court's consideration another plan of 21 notification to potential members of the class. 22 have done that, and we're here this morning to listen to 23 consider the proposed plan and decide whether we should 24 proceed with the court-ordered notice, to borrow a phrase used 25 by the parties in the briefing, and see what happens. 3 The parties Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 3 of 60 1 So before moving to the merits of the plan itself, 2 I'll ask the attorneys to record their appearance on the 3 record and the appearance of any other party who may be here 4 for purposes of addressing the sufficiency of the proposed 5 plan. 6 Who would like to go first? 7 MR. HOLLAND: I will, Your Honor. Eric Holland for 8 the plaintiffs and as class counsel. 9 appearances with the reporter and with the court before Your We've lodged our 10 Honor came out this morning. 11 again with each of the folks who are appearing on behalf of 12 the plaintiffs and present the -- 13 THE COURT: We're happy to go through that You might go ahead and introduce them so 14 I can associate faces and names. 15 MR. HOLLAND: 16 From Alexandria, Louisiana, Richard Arsenault, class I sure will. 17 counsel. 18 My partner Seth Crompton from St. Louis. 19 Kansas City. 20 have representatives of Mark Lanier's firm from Houston here. 21 From Philadelphia, Charles Schaffer, class counsel. Tim Monsees from Jon Robinson from Decatur, Illinois. We also In addition, speaking about the notice plan today, 22 there will be three folks from Signal Interactive, including a 23 partner in Signal Interactive, Matthew Garretson, Brennan 24 Bilberry, and Joe Juenger. 25 THE COURT: Thank you. 4 Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 4 of 60 1 MS. CROUCH: Good morning, Your Honor. Amy Crouch 2 from Shook, Hardy & Bacon. 3 Remington Arms Company. 4 and also Dale Wills, Remington's national counsel from 5 Chicago. 6 Jon Sprole, general counsel for Remington Arms Company. I'll be speaking on behalf of With me I have my partner John Sherk, Our associate Molly Carella is with us as well as 7 THE COURT: 8 Judge Norton, your appearance here this morning is 9 10 11 Thank you. not purely as a spectator. Would you like to inform those interested and the court of your role in this proceeding? JUDGE NORTON: Thank you, Your Honor. It's a 12 pleasure to be here before you this morning. 13 indulgence, I am here today as a mediator hired by the parties 14 to help them work on this plan and put their nose to the 15 grindstone and get something for the court that we believe is 16 going to increase these claims. 17 With your I wanted to come today, give a brief introduction of 18 what we've done and kind of the progress that's been made if 19 the court will allow that very short introduction, and then 20 I'll turn it over to counsel to present details of that plan. 21 THE COURT: 22 MR. NORTON: 23 I've been a mediator in this case since just after Okay. Proceed. Thank you, sir. 24 your order of December the 8th of 2015. 25 to belabor it, I practiced law in Northeast Missouri for about 5 Very briefly and not Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 5 of 60 1 ten years, and then I was a state court trial judge and then 2 an appellate judge for 20 years. 3 doing a lot of mediation. 4 contacted me and asked if I would be willing to help them 5 mediate this and come up with this supplemental plan pursuant 6 to your order. 7 I left the bench and been After your order, the parties Class counsel are here. I've found them to be 8 experienced, hardworking, and dedicated to these class members 9 and committed to satisfying this court that every stone has 10 been turned over, and we've done the best we can to get this 11 notice where it needs to be. 12 I also can tell you that counsel for Remington are 13 here, and I've found them to be just as hardworking and 14 experienced. 15 years. 16 reasons, representing their clients, and I have considered it 17 an honor to be here and to work with them and try to bring 18 something for the court that can get us where we need to be. 19 I've had a lot of contact with lawyers over the Counsel on both sides are in this case for the right We got here -- the court's well aware -- you set out 20 a lot of it; so I'm not going to spend a lot of time. 21 Pollard's been on file for three and a half years, as the 22 court is well aware. 23 December of 2014. 24 25 The settlement agreement was filed in The parties worked diligently to put together settlement and also the notice provision initially for the due 6 Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 6 of 60 1 process notice. 2 provider, came in and did that plan for the due process notice 3 and estimated that the print digital media and direct notice 4 that they completed would reach about 74 percent of all 5 settlement class members, and that reach is into 74 percent, 6 but reached them almost three times. 7 Angeion, a nationally-recognized notice By the time the final settlement had been sent in, 8 as the court noted, about 2,300 claims had been filed, and 9 because of the claims and because of the court's December 8th 10 order, both sides have been working tirelessly to come up with 11 a supplemental plan that we all hope will meet with the 12 court's approval and hired me for that purpose to mediate 13 this. 14 This has not been a mediation where we've sat down 15 one afternoon and had a cup of coffee and hoped for the best, 16 and I wanted briefly to let you know that I have spent 17 hundreds of hours with these lawyers and on this case and with 18 the notice providers and with the interested parties at the 19 request of these parties. 20 their dedication to getting this right. 21 And I think it's an indication of We have engaged the country's foremost media experts 22 to complement the work that's already been done, and I have a 23 quick outline just so we can try to show what we've done here 24 to get this done. 25 I met with the parties in Houston in February and 7 Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 7 of 60 1 then in Dallas in February for two days. 2 and met with the Remington team there and in New England, went 3 to San Francisco and met with Public Justice and Arthur Bryant 4 and Bill Rossbach and others with Public Justice because of 5 their interest to ask them for their input. 6 the parties, to ask their input of what will make this notice 7 better and how to get us where we need to be. 8 that meeting about digital messaging being something that 9 needed to be part of what we moved forward. 10 I went to New York At the request of We did speak at After going to San Francisco, then later in April I 11 went to Bozeman, Montana, and met with my new friend Bill 12 Rossbach and Richard Barber, and we spoke for an entire 13 afternoon about the tragedy that had befallen Mr. Barber and 14 his family and about what they believed might help us get 15 where we needed to be. 16 home to these lawyers and passed on to them and considered, 17 and we've done the best we can to utilize all of the great 18 things we heard from those folks and made it a part of this 19 plan. 20 And all that information was brought Finally, I met with the Signal folks, Jim Messina 21 and Matt Garretson and their crew, who you are going to hear 22 from today, in Washington, DC, in early May. 23 say it's one of the more impressive meetings I've ever 24 attended in my life just in terms of the way they make their 25 presentation, which the court will be hearing today, and 8 I will have to Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 8 of 60 1 you'll be able to form your own opinions, of course, but also 2 in terms of background, experience, the bona fides, as we used 3 to say, that tell you that somebody's been there, they've done 4 that, they know what they're talking about. 5 get to hear from those folks here today. 6 You're going to Dozens of conference calls, talking about the legal 7 issues, and I mediated the legal issues that were addressed by 8 the court. 9 resolution on that. 10 Counsel will talk about that, and we reached And these were hard-fought and sweat- driven conversations about how to get these things done. 11 The parties were very, very willing to let me push 12 them, and most folks who have had me as a mediator will tell 13 you that, as my wife likes to point out, I've still got a 14 little judge in me, Your Honor, and I can be a little bit 15 pushy at times. 16 And they accepted that. We talked about the radio ad language. We talked 17 about the language in the posters that are going to be put up 18 that you're going to hear about. 19 mail that Remington is going to do, what it's going to say and 20 who it's going to reach. 21 about the digital messaging. 22 the testing runs that we put out there with different kinds of 23 language to see what reached the most people and what was 24 responded to most often. 25 that testing to me was impressive and made me feel like we 9 We talked about the direct And then we talked in great detail I was intimately involved with And that testing was detailed, and Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 9 of 60 1 have ourselves in a place where we can't do any better. 2 we hope that the court feels the same way. 3 And We've got a group here, and I will only speak about 4 this briefly because you've heard about it before. 5 the testing and the experts have found is what I suspected 6 from the first moment I learned of this case and where the 7 case found itself procedurally with regard to these class 8 members. 9 But what Gun owners are a group like no others, Your Honor. 10 I think most folks know that. 11 that. 12 of class members in a class action and the class actions that 13 we hear about, whether it's car owners that have a problem 14 with an automobile or whether it's a drug manufacturer who may 15 have people who have taken drugs. I think the court is aware of They are a group of people so different, even in terms 16 These class members know each other. These class 17 members talk. 18 other. 19 because they talk about their gun issues, and they spend their 20 time together, whether it's coffee shops, whether it's feed 21 stores. 22 They have communities. They visit with each If one person gets notice, dozens will know about it And a large percentage of these folks, as I know 23 from personal experience, wouldn't turn their rifles in if we 24 knocked on their door and told them what the allegations are 25 in this case because, frankly, they're suspicious, and they 10 Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 10 of 60 1 don't believe it. 2 Missouri, who know that their Second Amendment rights are 3 challenged and they're convinced of it, and they feel like 4 someone's trying to take their guns away. 5 respond to any notice from anybody no matter what it says. 6 The harsher the language, the more likely they are to turn 7 away. 8 9 I've got a lot of friends in Northeast They will not There's another big group of those folks who will not turn their rifles in because they love their rifles. 10 They've owned them for decades and they've never had a 11 problem. 12 I'm one of those. 13 largest deer of my life with a 700 Remington rifle. 14 These lawyers didn't know it when they hired me but I own one of these rifles. Took the I gave it to my cousin when I moved to St. Louis. 15 called him after this started. 16 turn that rifle in? 17 shooting rifle I've ever had in my life. I've never had a 18 problem. I don't care what 19 they say. 20 I said, Hey, Rick, you want to He said, Not a chance. I'm not sending that rifle in. It's the best I think there's a lot of those people out there. 21 makes this class so unique and so difficult to address in 22 where to go. 23 I It We're going to cover three topics today and I'm 24 going to wind down. 25 Holland Law Firm in St. Louis who's going to address the legal 11 We're going to have Eric Holland from the Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 11 of 60 1 issues that were in your court's order of December the 8th and 2 talk about how the parties have agreed and I believe 3 accomplished their goal of taking care of those legal issues 4 that were a concern. 5 Amy Crouch from Shook will speak on behalf of 6 Remington and talk about the additional notice elements that 7 Remington is taking on, and we believe they are significant at 8 great cost to them with regard to what they're going to do 9 separate and apart from what Signal will be telling you about 10 with regard to direct mail, with regard to mailing to known 11 addresses, with a lot of things that they have found, gun 12 shops and the like. 13 14 15 And she'll tell you about those things. And then, finally, the Signal group is going to come up, and they're going to address the supplemental notice. I want to just tell you, because I don't think these 16 guys are going to get up here and give you a fair 17 representation of who they are because, unlike me, they don't 18 like talking about themselves. 19 Garretson. 20 years of settlement experience in the complex settlement 21 administration area. 22 They have 450 employees. 23 You're going to hear from Matt He founded the Garretson Resolution Group. 15 He focuses on aggregate settlements. He was involved in the World Trade Center disaster 24 settlement when that came down. 25 Deepwater Horizon, which is the BP Oil spill, settlement and 12 He was involved in the Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 12 of 60 1 getting it worked out. 2 Hockey League, a lot of mass torts, and has an unbelievable 3 amount of experience in the complex settlement administration 4 world. 5 He's worked for the NFL, the National In the last couple of years he began researching how 6 to move forward in the class action notice field and how to 7 use what he had learned in that area. 8 Messina, and the two of them together have taken on a 9 collaboration on how to improve class notice. 10 He joined up with Jim Brennan Bilberry is here and will be speaking on 11 behalf of Mr. Messina and their group on mass media data 12 analytics. 13 internationally recognized, and they have reached targeted 14 audiences through contemporary media. 15 They specialize in digital media. They're As the reach of traditional print media goes down 16 and down, the reach of digital media goes up and up, and the 17 two of those things seem to be traveling in opposite 18 directions and traveling fast. 19 pace. 20 That media evolves at a rapid These guys know how to do it. I learned so much from them. It's very impressive. 21 There's a lot of things they talk about that I have to say, 22 Wait, explain that to me again because I don't understand it. 23 But they're really, really good at what they do, and Messina 24 offers a highly-specialized expertise. 25 As an aside, he was Barack Obama's campaign manager 13 Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 13 of 60 1 in 2012, used digital messaging to reach a hunter and 2 outdoorsman dynamic of people to help in that campaign that I 3 think you'll probably hear about today, and that group and 4 that focus has helped in this regard with this case and how 5 we're trying to get this out. 6 More recently he served as campaign adviser to David 7 Cameron in England. 8 of Italy as a campaign adviser, worked for film studios, 9 retailers, and they've supervised over a billion dollars of 10 He's been retained by the prime minister paid advertising. 11 Finally, Joe Juenger, young man that I've just been 12 delighted to work with, he works with Matt Garretson in mass 13 torts. 14 digital messaging and how that will work and how they intend 15 if the court approves to get this messaging out digitally, Joe 16 Juenger is going to talk about the radio piece that we've 17 added as another leg under this stool to try to make sure it 18 reaches as many people. 19 After Brennan Bilberry gets done talking about the Joe Juenger is working with Matt Garretson. He's 20 got a management degree from Miami, professional designation 21 from UCLA, MBA from Xavier, a law degree from Northern 22 Kentucky, and a lot of knowledge about aggregate settlements. 23 And he's going to explain how this radio piece has been set 24 up, where it's going to run, and who it will reach. 25 So with all that being said -- and I apologize for 14 Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 14 of 60 1 being a little long. 2 background. 3 it over to the lawyers to let them make the presentations. I just wanted to give the court that I appreciate your indulgence -- I'm going to turn 4 THE COURT: 5 Mr. Holland, I assume that you are going to address Okay. Thank you very much. 6 the two issues unrelated to notice that were brought to the 7 court's attention by objectors Townsend and Pennington. 8 also note that both Rodney Townsend and Terry Pennington have 9 withdrawn their objections; so I'm not sure how much time we 10 11 I need to spend on that. I do note that Rule 23 does address what happens 12 when an objector attempts to withdraw his or her objection, 13 and it is Rule 23(e)(5) which indicates a class member may 14 object to the proposal. 15 this subdivision, the objection may be withdrawn only with the 16 court's approval. 17 affirmatively take some action to approve the withdrawal of 18 those objections? 19 If it requires court approval under So the question is do I need to MR. HOLLAND: And, thank you, Your Honor. You've 20 hit the nail on the head right out of the gate. 21 this morning to discuss all of the legal issues that were 22 raised and that you put in your December 8th order. 23 we've briefed it extensively from pages 11 through 26 of our 24 briefing and covered, I think, the state laws that you have 25 pointed us to in terms of the strengths and weaknesses of 15 I am prepared I think Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 15 of 60 1 those claims. 2 I don't have a lot to add to that briefing. I'm 3 certainly happy to answer the court's questions about the 4 briefing or any questions that the court has about any of the 5 particular cases or arguments that we made. 6 the withdrawals of the objections here that also came with the 7 fact that both objectors have now endorsed the settlement as 8 in their opinion through their counsel as being fair, 9 adequate, and reasonable carries some weight since they have I do think that 10 been made privy to our filing, our additional notice plan, and 11 our briefing on these very issues. 12 13 So to Your Honor's point, any questions that you have about our briefing, I'm happy to address. 14 THE COURT: Well, I have no questions about your 15 briefing, Mr. Holland. 16 that the subjects have been well treated in the briefing 17 provided to the court. 18 I've read your briefs, and I think I will ask what inducement or consideration, if any, 19 was exchanged with Mr. Pennington or Mr. Townsend for their 20 withdrawal of their objections. 21 MR. HOLLAND: At the court's request, I'm happy to 22 report that there was no inducement to either Pennington or 23 Townsend. 24 issues that we thought were of value, will be compensated if 25 in fact there is an award, a successful award of attorneys' 16 Their counsel, who did work on this case and raised Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 16 of 60 1 fees here. 2 THE COURT: 3 MR. HOLLAND: Okay. What else? Your Honor, in a general sense, I 4 guess, as a housekeeping matter, we would, I suppose, move 5 Your Honor to go ahead and accept those withdrawals of those 6 objections and make that motion. 7 have that in paper form, we would certainly be willing to ask 8 that it be a written motion if Your Honor would prefer that. 9 THE COURT: If Your Honor would like to I would prefer a written motion, and 10 I'll tell you that my inclination this morning is to accept 11 those withdrawals. 12 act on it. But if you'll file a written motion, I'll 13 MR. HOLLAND: 14 And I guess as a preliminary matter, I would say Okay. Thank you, Your Honor. 15 that class counsel continues to be very proud of this 16 settlement. 17 service to gun owners and is in fact very beneficial to the 18 public. 19 to talk about. 20 down to two. 21 We think that this settlement provides a valuable I have three brief points this morning that I planned We just talked about point number three so I'm I'll continue to be brief here. But we did make an extensive filing about the 22 notice. 23 during this process, which I would describe anywhere from 24 acrimonious to hard fought throughout, he was an excellent 25 steady hand through this process. 17 Judge Norton, who was a tremendous, tremendous help And you're going to hear Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 17 of 60 1 more about the details of this plan very soon. 2 We believe -- I believe that this additional notice 3 plan today will be effective and that it's going to result in 4 a more significant response rate, which is what you ordered us 5 to do on December the 8th. 6 class actions for a lot of years, a lot of MDL cases, even MDL 7 cases in this district, and this is cutting-edge stuff. 8 very impressed with it, and I'm happy to have my name 9 associated with it. 10 I've been involved in a lot of I'm More importantly, though, I think this is class 11 counsel's biggest point, the data here objectively prove this. 12 You're going to hear from the folks that are involved in this, 13 and this isn't guesswork. 14 be able to show you what we're talking about here. 15 more details on that here very shortly from the folks with 16 Signal. 17 This is objective. We're going to My second point really is a side note. As I said, It's an 18 issue that we raised in our briefing, and I do want to 19 underscore at this time, and it's about claims rates. 20 Norton spoke to it very briefly here this morning. 21 put some briefing in on the case law on this, and we think 22 that solely focusing on claims rate in any given case risks 23 throwing the baby out with the bath water. 24 case, we want to get guns fixed. 25 we've given it our best, and I'm not going to belabor the 18 Judge We have In this particular We really, really do. Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 18 of 60 And 1 point any further this morning other than what we've put in 2 our briefing and what's been said so far here today. 3 I'm happy to answer any questions of the plaintiffs 4 if you have any further. 5 my colleagues from Shook, Hardy. 6 7 THE COURT: If not, I'm going to turn it over to I do have a question for you, Mr. Holland. 8 Is it possible -- I have my own view on this, but 9 I'm interested in your view -- is it possible for the parties 10 to have notice which is constitutionally sufficient, that is, 11 comports with the requirements of due process, and complies 12 with the federal rules, specifically Rule 23, yet generates 13 such a low return rate, that is, a low number of claims, that 14 it makes it very difficult for the court to find that the 15 proposed settlement is fair, adequate, and reasonable? 16 is to say that the benefits to one side so greatly exceed the 17 benefits to the other that the court would labor to make that 18 finding. 19 That Is that possible? MR. HOLLAND: Well, Your Honor, I think you've 20 described what happened here, and on December 8th, which 21 happens to be my birthday, when I read your order, it 22 certainly didn't sit terribly well as a birthday present. 23 I will tell you, as we've gone through this process and I've 24 thought about all the additional guns that are going to be 25 fixed as a result of your action and you serving as a 19 Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 19 of 60 But 1 fiduciary of this class, which is, as you know, your 2 obligation, yes is the unequivocal answer to your question. 3 And that's exactly what we're doing here. 4 THE COURT: 5 MR. HOLLAND: 6 MS. CROUCH: 7 THE COURT: 8 MS. CROUCH: 9 Thank you. Thank you. Good morning, Your Honor. Good morning. my name is Amy Crouch. I introduced myself before but, again, I'm a partner at Shook here in Kansas 10 City where I've spent my entire career, and I represent 11 Remington Arms Company in this litigation. 12 Your Honor, for the past few years I've been charged 13 with orchestrating the claims process on the Remington side of 14 this case, so everything from the claim form itself to working 15 with the phone center, to helping set up the settlement 16 website, monitoring the claims as they've been coming in, 17 dealing with written notice issues, and making sure all the 18 pieces are running together as smoothly as possible. 19 We're obviously here to talk about one of those 20 pieces today, which is notice, and I wanted to present to the 21 court the two additional items that Remington is proposing it 22 work on in order to complement the work that the Signal Media 23 group is suggesting it undertake. 24 25 The first proposal from Remington is that it send out approximately 11,000 revised short form poster notices to 20 Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 20 of 60 1 third-party retail locations. 2 traditional distribution chains, going down through the 3 wholesalers, and asking that they push these posters out to 4 the 11,000 retail locations. 5 to post the notice for the duration of the claims filing 6 period. 7 with the hope that individuals in the stores will see the 8 notices and it will remind them to file a claim. 9 So Remington will use its And we'd ask those third parties This is a bit of a bootstrap onto the Signal work Remington's second proposal is that it send out 10 emails and postcards to a list of 1.1 million consumer contact 11 information that it's been able to garner from various 12 internal sources. 13 are not targeted to this litigation. 14 various sources. 15 notifications on our company website, signed up for email 16 notifications at a trade show, people who registered their 17 warranties with Remington, had repair work done, contacted our 18 customer service lines. The 1.1 million addresses that we've gotten We've compiled them from Customers who signed up for email 19 We've basically gone through every piece of data 20 that we have at the company that would allow us to gain an 21 email address or a physical mailing address, compiled all of 22 them together, de-duplicated them against each other, and we 23 wound up with this 1.1 million email and mailing addresses. 24 We recognize this list is vastly overbroad. 25 includes consumers who certainly don't own the models at issue 21 It Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 21 of 60 1 in this litigation. 2 own a firearm at all, but Remington is suggesting that 3 everyone on the list receive that same short form notice, 4 again, as a bit of a belts-and-suspenders approach to notice 5 to try to get the word out as broadly as possible. 6 It likely includes individuals who don't THE COURT: Okay. Ms. Crouch, you indicated that 7 you worked on the claim forms in this case, and those are 8 shown at Exhibit A. 9 totally unintentional, why the claim forms begin with the 10 voucher forms rather than the return and retrofit forms. 11 were clicking through one of the social media ads and clicked 12 on a claim form and the first one I saw was I was entitled to 13 either a $12.50 or a $10 voucher, I'm not sure I would go on 14 beyond that. 15 I'm curious why, and maybe this was If I Would it be more efficacious to lead with the claim 16 forms that relate to retrofitting the triggers and rendering 17 the firearms safe or safer as the case may be? 18 MS. CROUCH: Certainly. You're correct, that was 19 completely unintentional. 20 from the least complicated to the most complicated. 21 that has the refund and the attestation on it is at the very 22 back only because it was the longest. 23 process to simply change the order of the claim forms in the 24 PDF that appears on the website. 25 THE COURT: I think that the claims forms go The form It would be a simple Okay. Can we agree that the simplicity 22 Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 22 of 60 1 of the claim form is somehow related to the number of claims 2 that are actually filed? 3 be more likely to file a claim than if the claim form was 4 complicated and lengthy. 5 MS. CROUCH: If it's more simple, a gun owner may I think you could state that as a 6 general matter. 7 are not complicated given the number of different models at 8 issue in the litigation, given the number of different 9 remedies that are available. Our position would be that these claim forms I also think it's important that 10 few people are filing their claim forms with the written claim 11 form as is traditional in today's world. 12 the written claim forms, I think they look more complicated 13 than it looks when someone's filing a claim online. 14 So when you look at When a person is filing a claim online, one of the 15 first questions that's asked is what is your model number. 16 When the model number is entered, then the questions pertain 17 only to that model number, and they appear one at a time on 18 the screen. 19 when the claim is being filed electronically. 20 21 So it becomes a much simpler and quicker process THE COURT: Unless the gun owner has several firearms that qualify? 22 MS. CROUCH: 23 THE COURT: That's true. And then one other question with respect 24 to the claim forms. 25 says, "Stop using your firearm. 23 Several of them contain the warning that Any unintended discharge has Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 23 of 60 1 the potential to cause injury or death." 2 box which requires the firearm owner to acknowledge that he 3 has read the warning provided. 4 MS. CROUCH: And then there is a What's the purpose of that? Your Honor, we included the language 5 that you're referencing only for those firearms that are the 6 subject of the XMP recall. 7 that appears on the XMP recall website. 8 warning, again, is simply to make sure that the consumer has 9 been alerted the firearm you're attempting to submit as part So this is the warning language The purpose of the 10 of this settlement is part of a recall. 11 Remington admits the defect there. 12 using your firearm. 13 a box to acknowledge that they've read that warning. 14 You need to know that We're asking you to stop And, yes, we do ask the consumer to check THE COURT: One consequence of a gun owner checking 15 that warning might be that if the owner doesn't have the gun 16 repaired and there is a subsequent accidental or unintended 17 discharge and that someone is injured or killed as a result of 18 that discharge, that that owner may well face a contributory 19 negligence assumption under the risk of comparative fault 20 defense in a personal injury case. 21 22 Is that some sort of disincentive to file a claim, and is it necessary? 23 MS. CROUCH: I don't know that it's necessary, Your 24 Honor. 25 company to alert a consumer that its firearm is subject to a 24 We do believe that it would be a problem for the Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 24 of 60 1 recall and not have that consumer acknowledge that they have 2 read the warning and understand that they need to stop using 3 their firearm. 4 that Your Honor is describing. 5 We're trying to prevent exactly the situation We do not want someone to try to register a claim -- 6 for us to say your firearm is the subject of a recall, and to 7 have them not turn their firearm in for repair. 8 to encourage consumers to get those firearms back so that we 9 can do a retrofit and fix the defect. 10 THE COURT: We're trying Can you accomplish the same goal by 11 simply having a warning without the checkoff that the gun 12 owner has read and acknowledges the warning provided? 13 14 MS. CROUCH: I think we could do that, yes, Your Honor. 15 THE COURT: 16 MS. CROUCH: 17 THE COURT: 18 MR. GARRETSON: 19 My name is Matthew Garretson. Thank you. Thank you. Next. May it please the court. I'm here on behalf of 20 Signal Interactive Media. 21 with an overview of the scope of our engagement, a discussion 22 of our approach, and, finally, a review of the results of our 23 preprogram testing, which is really at the heart of what we're 24 here to discuss today, as well as our recommendations to the 25 court. I'll begin my presentation today 25 Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 25 of 60 1 In December -- in the December 8th order of 2015, 2 the court directed the parties to develop a notice plan to 3 result in a more significant response rate. 4 parties engaged Signal Interactive Media. 5 2016, to May 12th, 2016, Signal designed preprogram testing, 6 the results of which are the basis of our presentation here 7 today. To this end the From March 29th, 8 During this time we obviously collaborated with the 9 mediator, Judge Norton, who we believe has informed the court 10 of some of our work to date. 11 Judge Norton, we designed various media and messaging 12 approaches. 13 messages and approaches, and we've collected empirical 14 results. 15 bringing to the table, Your Honor, is so often notices run and 16 then the results are seen later after the campaign. 17 In that time frame working with We've conducted preliminary tests on those And that's what is unique about the approach we're We are actually able to do preprogram testing, which 18 my colleague Brennan Bilberry will explain, which shows us 19 empirically what will happen if we run a certain message with 20 a certain theme. 21 It's important to also relate to the parties and 22 those in the court today that all we've done to date is 23 testing. We have yet to run the full campaign we're prepared 24 to run. But we're pleased to say as a result of that testing, 25 that it does indicate that the media and messaging we're 26 Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 26 of 60 1 recommending will indeed result in a more significant response 2 rate. 3 momentarily. My colleague Brennan will review those results 4 So what is the scope of the work we've done to date? 5 Well, our goal, as I said before, and Judge Norton, the 6 mediator, has highlighted in his introductory comments, our 7 goal is to reach and inform individuals of the matter of their 8 rights and of their options. 9 some way with the message and then us to be able to provide to That is to get them to engage in 10 the parties and to the court some empirical data to evince 11 that they did in fact engage with the message. 12 I think it's also important to highlight we were not 13 the authors nor the engineers behind the original notice. 14 That was a program that was done before our engagement. 15 So Signal Interactive Media, what about our 16 approach? 17 Group and the Garretson Resolution Group saw an opportunity to 18 really revolutionize the way in which notice was being done in 19 the United States and bring it up to what we believe is a 20 leading-edge standard that has proven so beneficial not only 21 in the areas which were highlighted within the political 22 campaigns but also being done by all the advanced retailers 23 and consumer type of advertisement in today's day and age. 24 25 As Judge Norton related to the court, the Messina Indeed it's a winning formula and incorporates the science of digital advertising into the notice campaign. 27 Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 27 of 60 It 1 applies data and analytics to empirically measure, to reach an 2 efficacy of what we intend to do before we in fact do it. 3 that is the preprogram testing. 4 We recognize that it's an innovative approach. And It's 5 newer to the legal field, but -- and it will, we believe, 6 disrupt certain decade-old ways of thinking about notice. 7 advancement is necessary as the old way relies on outdated 8 media, again, how readership and print advertisement is going 9 down and down and down and the use of social media and digital 10 11 But media is going up and up and up. So with the risk of being histrionic, we really view 12 this approach as a true public service. 13 needs to be done in the field of notice to enable people who 14 may benefit and participate in a class action settlement to 15 hear about what it is, to engage with the information, and 16 determine whether or not they would like to participate. 17 It's something that So how have we applied the cutting-edge empirically 18 demonstrable approach to this matter? 19 substantial past experience modeling datasets to administer 20 mass media campaigns involving the hunter/sportsman 21 demographic, among many other groups. 22 hunter/sportsman consumer models and data analytics 23 incorporate a variety of information and inputs. 24 25 The Signal experts have Our proprietary The information includes, for example, hunting permits, membership and relevant organizations, and stated 28 Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 28 of 60 1 affinities that some of the hunter/sportsman may make on their 2 social media and other internet outlets. 3 provides unique resource for additional notice, and we will 4 explain in our -- in a few moments how this has actually 5 worked in action. The resulting data 6 So to highlight our media plan and proposed path 7 forward, we are proposing a social media network -- social 8 media networking campaign using our unique proprietary 9 databases and analytics -- my colleague Brennan Bilberry will 10 go into that following my introductory comments -- as well as 11 a national radio media campaign including advertisements 12 across the country's top syndicated radio networks and 13 programs aligned with the demographics of potential class 14 members. 15 Brennan presents the results of the social media campaign. 16 And as you've heard from Remington's counsel, we My colleague Joe Juenger will cover that as soon as 17 believe this will be supplemented, of course, by the direct 18 mail, email, and retailer poster campaigns that their counsel 19 has just articulated. So with that, I'll hand it off to -- 20 THE COURT: 21 MR. GARRETSON: 22 With that, Your Honor, I'll hand it off to Brennan And the radio? Yes, yes, yes. 23 Bilberry to discuss the preprogram and testing results to 24 date. 25 THE COURT: Let me ask you to define some terms for 29 Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 29 of 60 1 me, Mr. Garretson. 2 frequency. 3 sure that I'm speaking and understanding -- The terms are impression, reach, and I think I know what they mean, but I want to be 4 MR. GARRETSON: 5 THE COURT: 6 MR. GARRETSON: 7 Reach, we define that as the number of people who Absolutely. -- what you're telling me. For sure. Yes, Your Honor. 8 have seen the post that is on social media. 9 as reaching someone once someone logs in, and they see the ad 10 The post counts while they are actively using media like Facebook. 11 THE COURT: 12 MR. GARRETSON: 13 with it in terms of click-through. 14 discussed reach, and then there's the impressions. 15 there's the frequency with which they engage with it, and then 16 there's the total click-throughs. 17 How do you know? Because of the way they'll engage So we have -- we first Then And as Mr. Bilberry will describe, once we have 18 empirical data on varying tests we did to see which ones had 19 the most impressions, the broadest reach, and the most 20 engagement through click-throughs. 21 THE COURT: So impression is simply someone who goes 22 to that page and looks at the ad? 23 MR. GARRETSON: Well, sort of. The impressions are 24 the number of times a post on a page is displayed whether or 25 not the post is clicked or not. 30 It's the number of times -- Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 30 of 60 1 it's actually the number of opportunities people have to 2 engage with the message. 3 4 THE COURT: Okay. So they could conceivably call up a page that has the ad on it three or four times. 5 MR. GARRETSON: 6 THE COURT: That's correct. You would count it as three or four 7 impressions, but we don't know whether they actually looked at 8 it and took some -- well, you'll know whether they took some 9 action, but you don't know whether they've looked at it or 10 not. 11 MR. GARRETSON: We know how many times that they had 12 the opportunity to view the impression, to view the message. 13 That is the impression. 14 times that it was then served to each person, and we know the 15 audience and demographic to which we're serving it. 16 once we deduct from that how many times people actually click 17 through, that's where we get the measurable engagement in 18 reach. 19 20 21 THE COURT: We know the frequency, the number of Okay. And then So for an ad to reach a firearms owner, they would have to actually click on the ad? MR. GARRETSON: Not necessarily. They could see, 22 and you'll -- as we appended to our report, they can see the 23 message, which has a cursory review and description of what 24 the matter is about. 25 what we're asking them to click through, but they may observe 31 They can see the theme that underlies Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 31 of 60 1 that and decide not to go any further. 2 people who do decide to engage more deeply with the message. 3 THE COURT: 4 MR. GARRETSON: But we can measure the And what do we call that? Click-through. And we'll have -- if 5 it would be all right, Your Honor, I'll have Mr. Bilberry go 6 into exacting detail of that and the various tests we've done. 7 THE COURT: 8 MR. GARRETSON: 9 THE COURT: 10 Okay. Thank you, Your Honor. Thank you. MR. BILBERRY: Good morning. Good morning. Your Honor, may it 11 please the court. 12 and Signal Interactive Media. 13 little bit of time on the terminology as well that Matt talked 14 about and this is, you know, our specialty. 15 to give a brief overview of what the preprogram testing looked 16 like and then how those results, which include the 17 terminology, were prepared. I'm Brennan Bilberry with the Messina Group 18 THE COURT: 19 MR. BILBERRY: In addition to -- I'll spend a But I first want Okay. As part of the preprogram digital 20 media testing, we tested a social networking media plan among 21 a sample of several hundred thousand potential class members 22 in order to collect preliminary empirical results. 23 groups were made up of individuals who were likely to be 24 hunters or have expressed some interest in Remington or both, 25 and we determined this because this is based on which groups 32 These Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 32 of 60 1 or companies or statements they've made on social media 2 publicly; so if they associate with a specific hunting group, 3 if they have commented on pages from Remington or hunting 4 pages. 5 We also combined it with the results of the initial 6 testing to determine which was reaching -- sorry -- which ads 7 were resonating the best with different groups on Facebook, 8 and then created models of the likeliest people to be class 9 members based on those who responded most directly to the ads 10 that were relevant to the class members and who clicked 11 through to the notice website. 12 This type of preprogram testing is entirely 13 customary and expected in commercial and political mass media 14 advertising, and the purpose is to measure the effectiveness 15 of media messaging images so that the advertisers may adjust 16 and optimize what they are doing prior to launching the full 17 program. 18 click-through, which I'll talk about that terminology in a 19 second, and better response to the ads overall. 20 never launch a large-scale commercial or political 21 advertising, frankly, without preprogram testing, and it's why 22 we think it's really important in this case. 23 And this leads to better rates of engagement or We would This was administered in three rounds, which allowed 24 for adjustment of the messages and adjustment of graphic 25 design. And so we were able to compare the best targets, best 33 Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 33 of 60 1 messages, and best graphic design from the first rounds and 2 test them again to determine what we thought was the most 3 effective way to get class members to click through to the 4 website to be provided information about how they can have 5 their trigger replaced. 6 The testing encompassed several different 7 advertisements via Facebook that were initially in the first 8 round search to 150,000 individuals who were identified as 9 likely to be potential class members, and that was based on 10 the criteria that I discussed right at the beginning. 11 Individuals will see these ads when they first log into 12 Facebook and as they continue to actively move around the 13 site. 14 they have to, according to Facebook's data, be actively using 15 the website in order for that to count as an impression. 16 And the way that we know they've seen the ad is because The reason Facebook was selected for this preprogram 17 test as it's -- it's the overwhelming and the highest read 18 social network, particularly among all demographic groups with 19 an ability to provide us with very granular results during the 20 test. 21 relies simply on looking at demographic groups and then 22 targeting based on that demographic group, we generally 23 believe in a much more granular approach where testing allows 24 you to see how different ads work with different groups. 25 So while a lot of old-style advertising and notice So instead of just, you know, for example, finding, 34 Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 34 of 60 1 you know, the publications that are read by males over a 2 certain age, we see how different demographic groups interact 3 with the ads and then serve those ads that are best and are 4 most likely to drive them to a specific website to that group. 5 So the empirical results of the preprogram testing, 6 and I'll cover the terminology in this section as well, 7 impressions, there were one point -- I'm sorry, 1,049,860 8 impressions, and this is the total number of times people saw 9 an ad. And we know that they saw an ad because the reporting 10 that comes back from Facebook requires them to be logged in 11 and active on the site. 12 That number includes people who saw the ad more than 13 once. 14 the number of unique distinct individuals who saw the ad at 15 least once during the preprogram Facebook testing. 16 number was 309,958 distinct individuals. 17 obviously Facebook monitors the distinct impressions and can 18 tell us the number of distinct individuals who are reached 19 versus the total number of ads that were delivered, which 20 includes the multiple delivery of ads to multiple people. 21 Those two numbers will make sense when you talk So we'll delineate between that and a reach. Reach is That We know that because 22 about frequency which is the average number of times someone 23 saw the ad on Facebook. 24 frequency times the reach is roughly equivalent to the 25 impressions that you're delivering. 35 And that's just over three. So the Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 35 of 60 1 The final number is the clicks to the case website. 2 This was 18,721. 3 through and can be thought of as -- we view it as a response, 4 a response to the advertising. 5 advertisement in Facebook, potential class members are 6 redirected to the case website, which obviously contains 7 information that you, Your Honor, you're aware of. 8 9 This is the number of people who clicked Upon clicking the notice We conducted these tests over three rounds from March 29th to May 12th. Each test allowed us to adjust 10 targets and to continue improving response rates along the 11 way. 12 with 309,958 individuals exposed to the advertisement on 13 average just over three times each. As I mentioned, there were 18,721 total clicks on the ad 14 When they clicked, they were redirected to the case 15 website. 16 18,721 who interacted with the content in other ways or in 17 additional ways, including sharing it with their friends or 18 commenting on it or liking the content. 19 There were also additional individuals beyond the 18,721 clicks among the 309,958 individuals reached 20 equates to just over a 6-percent response rate. 21 among -- this response was higher among the best testing ads 22 and was -- is above average both based on our experience and 23 on Facebook's internal metrics. 24 comes back with what's called a relevancy score and it tells 25 you how -- on a scale of 1 to 10 how likely one of their 36 This response After you run an ad, Facebook Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 36 of 60 1 individual users was to find it relevant; so were they likely 2 to engage with it. 3 And those numbers were consistently above average 4 for the advertising and including the top ones were 5 significantly above average in terms of relevancy scored to 6 these individuals. 7 Subject to the court approval, we predict that a 8 similar response rate will be observed if we serve the best 9 testing advertisements to the entire universe of what we've 10 identified as about 3.4 million users who are among the most 11 likely to be class members with -- based on the relevant 12 dataset. 13 The reason that we believe that they are the most 14 likely to be relevant class members is both based on the data 15 we used to come up with the tests in terms of people who have 16 identified with hunting groups or with the Remington page or 17 shown interest in hunting and also the results of the test, 18 which showed which people when they see an ad about having a 19 trigger replaced on a Remington rifle are most likely to 20 engage with it. 21 before the test and then how the test was conducted. It was based both on the data that we had 22 We believe the broader notification will likely 23 result in a more significant response rate among those we 24 advertise to than the response that was previously achieved as 25 requested in the court order. 37 Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 37 of 60 1 As next steps, we propose, first of all, expanding 2 the social media notice to the entire dataset audience that I 3 just was describing. 4 to expand beyond the initial test groups that we used, which 5 were randomized subsets of the larger -- of the larger 6 universe, and publish notice to that larger universe of users 7 in the U.S. who are identified pursuant to our 8 hunter/sportsman audience model overlaying with individuals 9 who had a self-expressed interest in topics relating to We would request approval of the court 10 hunting and Remington Arms and social media. 11 who have proactively said that they have an interest in 12 hunting, Remington, or in many cases both and who, based on 13 our initial tests, we believe are the most likely potential 14 class members because of their higher engagement rates with 15 ads that offer for their trigger to be replaced. 16 These are people The second is the radio piece, which Joe Juenger 17 from the Garretson Group will discuss. 18 would obviously seek to report back to the court. 19 empirical results from these efforts will be tracked and 20 reported as directed by the court. 21 important to us. 22 use it to both optimize the outreach that's taking place and 23 provide you with a very objective view of what we believe 24 we've accomplished in terms of reach, click-through, 25 impressions, and the other metrics that are useful for Your 38 Then, finally, we The This is incredibly We track and -- for everything we do. Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 38 of 60 We 1 Honor's purpose. 2 We believe that the court should expect this type of 3 data back from any digital notice effort just in order to 4 evaluate effectiveness. 5 just one portion of a larger effort, we believe the rich data 6 that comes back will continue to be useful in evaluating the 7 effectiveness and is why we agreed to pursue this -- pursue 8 this product, as Matt explained as we view it as a public 9 service. 10 I'm happy to answer any questions, and I apologize 11 for all the terminology. 12 that. 13 14 15 16 THE COURT: Did Signal trace claims which were filed directly as a result of the social media campaign? MR. BILBERRY: We only tracked click-through rates to the website. THE COURT: 18 MR. BILBERRY: 20 So I'm happy to jump back to any of Thank you. 17 19 While social media is, of course, I'm sorry. You only tracked -- The people who clicked through to the claims website. THE COURT: Okay. So out of the -- I think the 21 briefing refers to pretesting of 150,000 -- you mentioned 22 several hundred thousand -- you're not able to tell me how 23 many claims that generated? 24 25 MR. BILBERRY: I don't have that number offhand, no. I'm sorry. 39 Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 39 of 60 1 THE COURT: 2 MR. BILBERRY: 3 guess, Your Honor. Is that number obtainable? I'm sorry. 4 THE COURT: 5 MR. BILBERRY: 6 MR. HOLLAND: 7 THE COURT: 8 MR. HOLLAND: 9 I would have to ask the parties, I Well, ask them. Yeah. May I address the court, Your Honor? You may. Okay. As the court is aware with the way the structure of the settlement works now, claims continue 10 to roll in. 11 continuing to come in. 12 differentiate, as I understand it, between -- we can't give 13 you a hard number. 14 to over 6,500, but we can't tell you this is the precise 15 number traced to this because we have had other claims 16 continue to come in. 17 THE COURT: The website is open. It's alive and claims are There's simply no way to Claims have gone up. Claims have gone up So it would be somewhere in the 18 neighborhood of 4,000 at the maximum that would be traceable 19 to the social media campaign? 20 MR. HOLLAND: I believe that's -- I believe that 21 that's correct. 22 notice and the claims czar. 23 I mean, just additional claims -- you're the MS. CROUCH: Mr. Holland stated it accurately, Your 24 Honor. 25 mentioned before there were just under 3,000 claims that had 40 We do know from our last filing in September you Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 40 of 60 1 been filed at that time. 2 have been filed; so we know those claims have been filed 3 between September and now. 4 claims were as a result of a click-through on an ad during the 5 preprogram testing by Signal. 6 THE COURT: To date we've had 6,500 claims that Okay. 7 universe? 8 What's the total universe? 9 We do not know which ones of those All right. And what is the total You indicated you pretested 150,000 to 200,000. MR. BILBERRY: So the total, it ended up being 10 309,958 individuals who were served advertisements, and that 11 includes both the 150,000 in the first round of testing, and 12 then additional -- I believe it was -- I would have to go back 13 but additional numbers that increased that to close to 14 300,000. 15 were based on people sharing the content themselves. 16 And then there were some additional impressions that So it wasn't our -- it wasn't a paid impression. It 17 was someone seeing the ad and then choosing it to share, share 18 it with their friends or family members. 19 THE COURT: 20 have been pretested? Okay. 21 MR. BILBERRY: 22 THE COURT: Well, those are the number that Yes. And the next step is to test the entire 23 universe of potential gun owners. 24 What's the number? 25 MR. BILBERRY: What is the universe? So the -- how we have defined it is 41 Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 41 of 60 1 who we think are kind of the most likely to be potential class 2 members. 3 that we can clearly identify on Facebook. 4 people who have an expressed interest in Remington, an 5 expressed interest in hunting or both, or those who responded 6 and look very similar to those who responded and clicked 7 through to the ads during the preprogram testing. 8 That number by our estimation is about 3.4 million That's based on That number can be broader if we have a broader 9 definition. It can be narrower if we need to have a narrower 10 definition. That's our estimate on what we believe is kind of 11 the most effective place to broaden the advertising to right 12 now. 13 14 15 THE COURT: So in your view you pretested essentially 10 percent of the universe? MR. BILBERRY: Correct. Yeah. Some of the 309,000 16 are not inside the universe that we would -- that we fully 17 advertised to, including the people who might have shared it 18 with friends and family, but approximately, yes. 19 THE COURT: 20 MR. BILBERRY: 21 THE COURT: 22 MR. JUENGER: 23 May it please the court, I am Joe Juenger. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Juenger, I presume. Yes, Your Honor. I'm 24 speaking on behalf of Signal Interactive Media as well. 25 with a team was charged with managing the design of the 42 Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 42 of 60 I 1 national radio campaign. 2 with other experts. 3 Judge Norton, the mediator, but we also pulled in an expert 4 media planner, professional media planner, One Four Media. 5 This is a corporation out of Boston. 6 To design the plan, we collaborated We collaborated under the leadership of I collaborated with its president. She has over ten 7 years of advertising and media planning experience. 8 substantial experience advertising to the hunter/sportsman 9 demographic specifically, and I'll go more into that in a 10 She has moment. 11 She in turn reached out to the senior vice president 12 of sales of the Remington Arms Company. 13 has key information and data on how best to reach its own 14 customers. 15 the world regarding who its customers are and how to reach 16 them. 17 That is, Remington It can be said that they're the foremost expert in Remington's marketing group, their sales group, 18 shared this information with One Four Media in order to help 19 inform our decision process in the design of the national 20 radio plan. 21 majority of the campaigns they have worked on over the last 22 years have involved radio, outdoor advertising, and 23 television. 24 the U.S. except for Hawaii. 25 One Four Media is a corporation in Boston. The They've booked campaigns in every state across They focus primarily on public service announcements 43 Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 43 of 60 1 and what's referred to as issue advertising. 2 are nonpartisan. 3 They've done work and been hired by the Department of Justice, 4 the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives. 5 example of one nonpartisan campaign with which they've worked 6 and designed was the "Don't lie for the other guy" campaign 7 and the anti-straw purchasing program across the United 8 States. 9 Their campaigns Their firearms campaigns are nonpartisan. An With respect to the design of the national radio 10 campaign, our court-ordered notice plan includes a proposed 11 four-week national radio plan. 12 key demographics of hunter/sportsman at issue. 13 to span the country's top syndicated networks and programs. 14 It's designed to be aired during peak morning and evening 15 drive times. It's designed to target the It's designed 16 The networks are comprised of stations. 17 just over 1,300 individual radio stations encompassed by our 18 proposal. 19 we forecast this campaign will generate more than 61 million 20 targeted impressions. 21 There's Subject to testing, which I'll discuss in a moment, Our proposed national radio campaign has several 22 components. 23 traditional terrestrial networks, the radio networks that 24 we're all familiar with, and then the web-based or digital 25 networks such as iHeartRadio, which I'll discuss in a moment. 44 At the highest level there's two components, the Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 44 of 60 1 Within each we have targeted programs with strong 2 hunter/sportsman audiences. 3 As an aside, with respect to iHeartRadio, this is a 4 media in which notice can be digitally streamed online for 5 individuals who, for example, listen on their mobile devices, 6 their phones, or listen to the radio through their computers 7 at work. 8 9 IHeartRadio is the largest national radio group. It's formerly Clear Channel. It is the most widely-used 10 mobile app for streaming radio stations nationwide. 11 targeted directing ads on news talk programs, sports programs, 12 country, and rock stations among others, and I can discuss 13 those in a moment if you would like. 14 We have We have proposed upon evaluation a 60-second ad. 15 Within the format of iHeartRadio, the 60-second ad is not only 16 auditory, but it also has a companion banner which appears on 17 the device, the mobile phone, or computer on which you're 18 listening. 19 the home page of the case website, which, again, contains 20 links to the approved long-form and short-form notice 21 documents. 22 Upon clicking that ad, listeners are redirected to Now, I'll take a step back after talking about 23 digital radio and talk about the more traditional commonly 24 known or more ubiquitously known terrestrial networks. 25 define two terrestrial networks. 45 We I'll describe one as a Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 45 of 60 1 custom network, a very highly-targeted custom network around 2 the hunter/sportsman demographic, and then we took a step back 3 and also created a broader national network. 4 The terrestrial or custom network, again, is 5 targeted at hunting and fishing shows specifically, but also 6 stations that are -- that have a high correlation to the 7 hunting and fishing demographic. 8 that would be stations involving NASCAR or related interests, 9 things of that nature. 10 Colloquially I would say To give you an idea of the number of stations across 11 America, it is 302 stations in our proposed custom network. 12 Gross impressions are forecasted at just over 29 million. 13 net reach of this custom network will be approximately 14.5 14 million persons. 15 person will hear the ad two times. 16 Average frequency is per person. The Each Geographically the U.S. coverage will be 98.6 17 percent. 18 class members in a large scale with somewhat traditional 19 media. 20 to pursue the best notice practical under the circumstances. 21 We also created a national radio plan, which was a That is an enormous asset for us to reach putative We took a step back and went to even broader than that 22 broader set of stations, and in fact it was 1,386 stations 23 across the U.S. 24 network, which we will implement concurrently, is 25 approximately 27 million gross impressions. 46 The gross impressions of this broader The net reach is Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 46 of 60 1 8.1 million unique or unduplicated persons. 2 of this network is 3.4 times the commercial will be delivered 3 to these individuals. 4 Average frequency I have this station list available. We did not 5 include it with our submission because what I have here is 6 approximately 90 pages long. 7 supplemental brief or upon reviewing the materials I have, and 8 I guess upon the motion of counsel, I could enter it into 9 evidence or simply share it with you with permission to 10 11 I'm more than happy to file a approach the bench. The radio script, which is the message of the media 12 or across the media, we evaluated both 30-second and 60-second 13 commercials. 14 studies, the recall, which is key, from 60-second commercials 15 is significantly greater than that of 30-second commercials. 16 Based on recent empirical studies, scientific So we chose 60-second commercials upon evaluation 17 because we felt, based on research, it would allow us to 18 clearly articulate the summary of the case, describe the 19 rights and options of all parties, describe how the listeners 20 -- how and where the listeners may get more information, how 21 they will participate, and across 60 seconds, we found we were 22 able to do this without rushing and just as importantly, 23 reiterating the call to action to improve the recall and drive 24 response rates. 25 In conclusion, the last thing pending questions I 47 Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 47 of 60 1 would say we also propose preprogram testing or in-program 2 testing with respect to the radio campaign that we're 3 proposing. 4 two rounds in order to let us evaluate empirically and 5 optimize feedback to adjust the message or station list, for 6 example. 7 8 9 We'd propose to administer the radio campaign in That is the material I prepared to present, but I'm happy to answer any questions, Your Honor, you might have. THE COURT: Did you consider running the ads on 10 television stations as opposed to radio? 11 radio rather than television? 12 MR. JUENGER: Why did you choose It was considered whether to run the 13 ads on television. 14 and the prior notice agent prior to our engagement. 15 outside the scope of what I was personally involved with. 16 dealt with data analytics in the radio program, but I know 17 that the parties did evaluate and vet the television 18 programming. 19 their decision making. 20 That evaluation was made by the parties It's They can probably speak to that process and THE COURT: Can you tell me whether radio 21 advertising is more effective than television advertising 22 based on your experience in the industry? 23 We MR. JUENGER: I think it's -- I think there's a 24 little bit of -- there's more to that answer because I think 25 it depends, first of all, on the demographic you seek to 48 Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 48 of 60 1 reach, and in this case, I do believe that radio is very 2 suitable. 3 for this audience. 4 would be my response. 5 6 7 8 9 10 Without respect to television, it's very suitable I think it would be very effective. THE COURT: That Are you able to tell me whether in your judgment it's more effective than television? MR. JUENGER: I did not personally run a comparison of television to radio in this matter. THE COURT: Historically, which is more effective? MR. JUENGER: I would say that in my class action 11 experience, I think the efficiency and effectiveness is 12 weighed with respect to television advertisements, and in the 13 majority of class actions, in the vast majority, and we can 14 all attest based on our everyday experience, we do not see 15 television advertising as much as magazines, news print, 16 online, and radio. 17 That also has to do with -- 18 THE COURT: 19 20 21 Can you -- Mr. Juenger, can you directly answer my question? MR. JUENGER: I cannot. I have not done a comparative study with respect to this demographic. 22 THE COURT: Okay. 23 MR. SHERK: Your Honor, thank you. Mr. Sherk. I can shed a 24 little light on this area because I was involved in some of 25 the conversations between counsel after we got your order in 49 Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 49 of 60 1 December of last year. 2 And in particular when we got your order, we 3 realized that we needed to do something different, something 4 that hadn't been done. 5 thing, vis-a-vis notice, and so I got together with 6 Mr. Arsenault and Mr. Holland. 7 what to do, and we ended up with the Signal group because we 8 thought this is going to provide us with cutting-edge 9 technology. We didn't want to do more of the same We really brainstormed about We're going to get to real objective data which 10 we can show the court. 11 these ads that go out. We can prove that people are seeing 12 And along the way, television was briefly touched 13 upon, and we found -- we really found very few instances of 14 television being used as a vehicle for notice in class 15 actions, and that's because we found that it is very broad. 16 It is not targeted at all, and we really wanted to get to 17 that. 18 Also, Your Honor, it is prohibitively expensive. We 19 thought we would get much more bang for the buck by going for 20 the cutting-edge unique services that the Signal group could 21 provide in terms of social media notice plus, you know, which 22 is -- it's a comprehensive and very expensive radio plan. 23 thought those were the best fits for us here. 24 THE COURT: 25 MR. JUENGER: Okay. Thank you. Anything else, Your Honor? 50 Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 50 of 60 We 1 THE COURT: 2 No. 3 MR. JUENGER: 4 THE COURT: 5 MR. HOLLAND: Give me just a moment, please. Thank you. Thank you, Your Honor. Mr. Holland. I don't know if you have any questions 6 of class counsel now as a result of the presentations. 7 happy to answer those. 8 few concluding remarks. 9 THE COURT: I'm If you don't, I would like to make a I notice that there are components of 10 the revised notification plan which are not incorporated into 11 the third revised version of the settlement agreement. 12 that intentional, unintentional? 13 MR. HOLLAND: Is What's the effect of that? It would be my judgment, Your Honor, 14 that we're looking for the court's guidance that these would 15 in fact be endorsed by the court and become part of our 16 agreement before making an amended settlement agreement and 17 including those in such an amendment. 18 THE COURT: Mr. Holland, late last week or over the 19 weekend Mr. Todd Hilsee of the Hilsee Group forwarded an 20 unsolicited correspondence to the court suggesting that the 21 revised plan is -- well, let me just say it can be improved 22 upon. 23 Remington, had an opportunity to review that letter, and would 24 anyone care to comment on the comments -- on the contents of 25 that letter? Have you had an opportunity, you or counsel for 51 Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 51 of 60 1 MR. HOLLAND: Just very briefly I've had an 2 opportunity. 3 week, and with preparing for this hearing and travel over here 4 and so forth, I haven't had a chance to dissect it, spend a 5 lot of time with it, take a look at the statements made in 6 great detail. 7 It was obviously filed at the very end of last We have been in this process, and I think the 8 mediator made note of this, very cognizant of others' views up 9 till now. Anyone that expressed prior to this time any 10 interest in this settlement or any desire to participate in 11 this process, we tried to include. 12 process, and that was something that we put a gold star next 13 to. 14 We tried to give them So this -- just the timing of it coming from a -- I 15 guess, someone who purports to be a notice expert was a little 16 surprising to me with the amount of notice that was provided. 17 Substantively, no, I have not gone through and dissected it. 18 I'm not prepared at this time to make further comment about 19 it. 20 THE COURT: Are the parties -- is plaintiff counsel 21 open to any constructive recommendations that might be 22 contained in that report that you accept as proposals which 23 might improve the overall claims rate? 24 25 MR. HOLLAND: I don't think we have identified anything in there that we saw as -- that would improve this 52 Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 52 of 60 1 present plan because the present plan attempts really to 2 destroy an entire industry, if you will, and to say that the 3 notice as it's currently being done in class actions generally 4 is inappropriate, number one. 5 Number two, I think that the plan and the 6 discussions made in -- from my very treetop level of review of 7 Hilsee's letter, seem to have been made from someone who spent 8 a lot of time doing notice many years ago. 9 that, Your Honor, is that in the last decade we have seen a And what I mean by 10 tremendous change in the way people communicate in this 11 country, and I think that the plan that we're putting forward 12 threads that needle and gets us exactly where we need to be in 13 terms of social media, radio, direct mail, email, retailer 14 poster campaign, all of the things that we've set forth. 15 I feel like that the things that are discussed in Hilsee's 16 letter are not current and up to date, frankly. 17 THE COURT: 18 MS. CROUCH: And Ms. Crouch. Thank you, Your Honor. I would echo 19 Mr. Holland's comments that we haven't had sufficient time to 20 analyze the Hilsee report. 21 From my perspective looking at some of his commentary on the 22 claim forms and, you know, the potential use of postcard 23 cutouts, to me it seemed to oversimplify a situation that's 24 more complex than I think Mr. Hilsee appreciates. 25 We've all read it at this point. Maybe he doesn't have all the facts, doesn't 53 Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 53 of 60 1 understand the number of models at issue here, the number of 2 different remedies, and the simple breadth of what we're 3 dealing with in this class action. 4 arguments that he was making from our perspective should have 5 been made before the objection period closed last year. 6 THE COURT: Also those types of Even so, if you, upon reflection and a 7 detailed review of the proposal, find something in there that 8 you believe would help improve the claims rate, would you be 9 open to modifying the notification plan to include those 10 11 improvements? MS. CROUCH: Certainly. After a review and 12 discussion amongst the parties, we'd be willing to consider 13 those things. 14 THE COURT: 15 Mr. Holland, the parties' brief in support of the Thank you. 16 revised notice plan suggests that the proposed plan would be 17 administered over four consecutive weeks with a target range 18 of July 4th to July 31st of this year. 19 already passed. 20 suitable than dates that are already behind us? 21 Obviously that's What dates do you think might be more MR. HOLLAND: I'd have to defer to my media 22 colleagues to give you a firm date upon which we could start. 23 Is that what you're looking for, the start date? 24 THE COURT: 25 MR. JUENGER: Yes. Could I speak to that? 54 Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 54 of 60 1 MR. HOLLAND: Yes, please. 2 MR. JUENGER: Your Honor, with respect to social 3 media, we're prepared to begin immediately. 4 scheduling radio ads, we would need to speak with the owners 5 of that space. 6 campaign at this point, and media's going to become more 7 expensive as we -- as that heats up. I can say that we're running up against the 8 THE COURT: 9 MR. JUENGER: Okay. 10 THE COURT: 11 MR. HOLLAND: 12 THE COURT: 13 14 15 16 With respect to Thank you. Thank you. Anything further, Your Honor? I don't believe I have any further questions. Is there anything the parties would like to say that you haven't already had an opportunity to say? MR. HOLLAND: Well, Your Honor, on behalf of class 17 counsel, I would like to add just a couple of comments, give 18 you our take on the reach, impression, frequency, and click- 19 through terms that were discussed here today. 20 even terms that were in existence when I attended law school. 21 I think most of the folks in this room grew up looking up the 22 law in books. 23 Those weren't This is quite a sea change for us. But I think as we've learned about it over the last 24 many years in these spaces, it does provide a unique and 25 measurable opportunity in this social media realm, and this 55 Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 55 of 60 1 plan gives us an opportunity for the class and to really gauge 2 what's happening here. 3 notice means because, for instance, when we do mail notice, we 4 have no idea who chooses to look at the thing, throw it away, 5 or what they do with it. 6 This is different than traditional This is much different than that. When we do email notice, same thing. I don't know 7 about other folks in this room, but I delete a lot of emails 8 without looking at them. 9 With regard to television for folks, are they 10 actually sitting through the commercials anymore -- it's a 11 very real question -- instead of fast forwarding? 12 that people take in television, and are they then acting on 13 things that they're seeing here. 14 And the way The social media component really gives us an 15 excellent opportunity for measurement of that. 16 plus the radio, plus all of the other elements that we've 17 talked about, we continue to be very proud of those, and we 18 appreciate the opportunity to come in and present this plan to 19 you and hope that it meets with your satisfaction. And so that 20 THE COURT: 21 MR. HOLLAND: 22 THE COURT: Mr. Sherk. 23 MR. SHERK: Yes, thank you, Your Honor. 24 Just a couple remarks from Remington's perspective. 25 It's fair to say that your December order of last year really 56 Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 56 of 60 1 hit like an A-bomb, and we have worked extraordinarily hard 2 with class counsel to try to come up with a supplemental 3 notice package that the court will endorse and agree with. 4 I've really got to commend Judge Norton for holding 5 this group together. 6 phase of the case in terms of working things out. 7 time consuming. 8 really worked at it, Your Honor; and so it's my request for 9 Remington that we get the claims process going, we drive 10 It's been an extraordinarily difficult It's been expensive. It's been We've all really, toward final approval hopefully, and we can start fixing guns. 11 Thank you. 12 THE COURT: Okay. If there is nothing further from 13 class counsel or counsel for Remington Arms, is there anyone 14 else in the courtroom who would like to speak to the issues 15 before the court this morning? 16 Okay. The court is not an expert in devising the 17 most efficient way to alert potential claimants as to the 18 existence of the settlement agreement or the method of 19 presenting claims to the court. 20 parties have strived valiantly to come up with a plan that 21 would alert potential members of the class that they have the 22 opportunity to present claims and to have rifles retrofitted 23 or to receive a voucher. 24 25 It does seem to me that the Whether it will work or not, I do not know. say that to some extent the proof is in the pudding. 57 I will There is Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 57 of 60 1 a number of claims presented which in my mind would justify a 2 finding that the settlement is fair, reasonable, and adequate. 3 I don't know what that number is. 4 said in reference to pornography, I will know it when I see 5 it, and I will know when I see the total number of claims that 6 are filed as a result of the revised notification plan, 7 whether it is adequate for me to make that finding, which is 8 necessary to approving the agreed settlement. 9 As Justice Potter Stewart That's not very reassuring to you, I recognize that, 10 but, nevertheless, I do have a responsibility to the members 11 of the class to make certain that the benefit flowing to them 12 is somewhat proportionate to the benefit flowing to Remington 13 Arms in this case. 14 Let me ask the parties to submit to me a proposed 15 order submitted in electronic form so that I might modify it 16 if necessary that would approve the proposed notification plan 17 as described by the parties this morning. 18 that order, I will consider what the parties are specifically 19 asking me to do and will either approve it in the form 20 submitted or modify it in such a way that I think is 21 consistent with the court's responsibility in this and any 22 class action case for that matter. 23 Upon receipt of In summary, I would say that your marching orders 24 are to go forward, and we'll see what happens. 25 the very best. And I wish you I hope that when it is said and done and when 58 Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 58 of 60 1 the sun sets, there will be a sufficient response that I can 2 in good conscience approve the plan. 3 merit in removing or repairing guns which may discharge 4 unintentionally, and to the extent that that reduces the 5 likelihood that someone might be injured or killed as a result 6 of that, that's a good thing. 7 I do think that there is But there are limits, and I think the parties 8 recognize my responsibility to the members of the class and to 9 the public at large. 10 Is there anything further this morning, Mr. Holland? 11 MR. HOLLAND: 12 THE COURT: 13 MS. CROUCH: 14 THE COURT: 15 JUDGE NORTON: 16 THE COURT: No, Your Honor. Ms. Crouch? No, Your Honor. Judge Norton, anything further? No, Your Honor. Okay. Thank you. Thank you all very much. I 17 commend you for the effort that you've put into the proposed 18 notification, and I hope it generates results that we are all 19 comfortable with. 20 21 22 If there is nothing further this morning, then we will be adjourned. * * * * * * * * * * * 23 24 25 59 Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 59 of 60 1 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE 2 3 I certify that the foregoing pages are a correct 4 transcript from the record of proceedings in the 5 above-entitled matter. 6 7 _____________ ____________________________ 8 Date Registered Merit Reporter 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 60 Gayle M. Wambolt, CCR No. 462 Registered Merit Reporter Case 4:13-cv-00086-ODS Document 142 Filed 08/25/16 Page 60 of 60