rILEDby nr appeals-----------^ 'S. M«V 3 0 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA 1 citmuce M«ooov Cte»K o s DIST. CT. S Of n* MU*M 2 3 4 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, 5 PLAINTIFF, CASE NUMBER 01-6095-CR-WDP 6 vs. 7 WILBERT McRRBITH, 8 VOLUME 4 Of 6: PAGES 809-1069 Defendant. 9 TRANSCRIPT of JURY TRIAL had before THE HONORABLE 10 11 JOSE A. GONZALEZ, JR., in Fort Lauderdale, Broward County, 12 Florida, on Monday, Dacaaber 16, 2002, in the above-styled 13 matter. * •' APPEARANCES: FOR THE GOVERNMENT; BERTHA MITRANI, ROGER STEFIN, Assistant U.S. Attorneys FOR THE DEFENDANT; JOHN HOWES, ESQ. 18 19 20 21 22 23 ANITA LaROCCA OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER U. S. COURTHOUSE 299 E. BROWARD BLVD., 205-D FORT LAUDERDALE, FLORIDA 33301 954 769-5568 24 25 »1 810 1 OtfwM adilblc lUitaer 21 ......................................... ... 869 3 3 3 4 5 6 7 ACS ISOS ................................... . 8U QxM-Banlnitlon By 8 tedUBCt Baiontlan B/ ft. 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Mum .......................................... . 944 17 U RIOMS VOESt BiUHXE ............. . 961 mt m MMiiw 31 23 33 Oefcnw BddbLc Hntar 3........... 11 34 Defsne Bdiitalt Hnbft 5........... 11 34 35 Detewe BAltHc Kster 20......... 10 35 23 (oeuct eollod eo crdK ut 9iOS o-a.] 1 ft. H3UM. 2 ve caRT: 2 3 ft. ICueo, are )oi ready? 3 4 I«. tOCS: 4 1 Good noDUrg, lartloo and gaKlioan. Judge, I need juot a ndnca wich ay HE COURT: Ci»y. « Ready? I have a cnoMoga fron jurer arbor 1. 3, 3. 4, 8 fta. Sovloy. 9 Ht. KSBSi She'd U)« to -- her huaCand naodo a peemlar. a»'o tha tociiod legal oeczetaiy. And she'o allied if ue could ThaSc >cu. Your Mrer. (aoaa mnuad'im Bf Nt. KMBS: S 0. 8 dim. 7 13 21 33 6 6 ft. lawia, yoj me alao urajlvod in the aeaich of the deferdm'a zeaidaiee en ftreital Amue, corect? 7 A. ft, air. 8 0. you ate the egm «to ei9)ed the return at the intencecy 9 fer that aeerdi, ccctect? 10 tooeaa tencrtew eftamsan ty 3 o'clock if uo'ro actll hero. 10 A. YBa. air. u' u g. Ocay. IW caae agm, you are leECWlble for the o«call u A. Yea. eir. So I'm 93ing to tell her thac of ocutae uo can cur actaKiai. But I 14 And. ft. lewia. ycu're at. 14 g. IS All n^. Wdan aedc. bring the jury in, plMoe. IS A. ft. U Uay antace tlie ocurtnoa). IS g. tSd you aver gi by the ftndvAl zaaldanee? 17 TIE SlRT: 17 A. Ym. 18 But you ueze never ineide of It? 18 19 WaiUiiH of the JUry, ^od namUig. ycu had a nice ueekerd. HB're rMdy to proceed with tha aoaa>OMmLnatian of 30 ft. lawia. 21 rami 23 33 I hope wni0a vHvmwjr araf HE aiKT: ft. lawia. you tan amn laec weak. nu'n ranttded. eir. that )ou are tcill tidar oath. 34 HE HTDES8: 25 HE OSUtT: And v«u nay croaa-eMattfa tha aicnaaa. YM, air. g, ftte you ever at the Ktmval raeidme? 19 A. Thet'e oarrect. 30 g. Ctay. 21 the Itoie that ueze takmi from thK reeidenee, coanct? kith remcc to that aaezeh. you're familiar with 23 A. yae, air. 33 g. YOU. likewiae, are fsi&liar with the itane tatan fzon the 34 69th Terrace raaidence? 25 A. ftciect. 1 A. yes. 2 Q. Oc^. you also arzescad tha dafendnc. oerzaei? 1 ^ Atb thsre aiy cmectin that yaa «euld 1D» to nlw to 2 cbe agn — ceRlmv <3^ } Sagsr m to that baaed i^cn jour tosaladgar le A. yea. I dai't zaeall if he had a tocdi oi. he e^ haw. or If 1 17 tha uBCdas wa ip hare, eerrex? 19 0- Mid the iaxwladge or ard the infoznaclai prodded to yoj by 16 A. YM. 19 g. And you told na. yae, taut for one eaceh that's not beat 20 ochazt? 20 plaoad Into evldenoe, caczecc? 21 A. Cbzrect. 22 0. So «tai you aaore at the return at the Inwantery of the 22 g. And chat ana MCeh chat has not best placed into eddence 23 aeazA at ttrtliaat 69th Ttetiaue aa to ehat «aa eel tad, you 23 la a lOud sll>«r «acdi with niifaaza on the outside: la that a 34 Maze ctolrq ao based tyn «4ac both you ioiaw and i4iac other 24 fair ilaan IpriiTi of it? 25 agwea had told you.- la that cczzect? 25 A. YSs. 21 IIIA 1 g. tut a ndmea now. laC's don’t go with probataUitlsa. CO 1 Q. Oov2 Wt. IOCS: my I ^tauadi. JU^7 3 13C CCURT: Yea. sir. 2 you torn dMza It is? 3 A. He. 4 BY Ht. >OB: 4 g. Omy. Wan you Bl^ad the liMnccry of iuna Ccr the S Q. Let na Cm you a cepy cd a djonaiL and aCt you if you S saazdi oi April 26th, you atpaated before Jiz^ am. oorzact? 7 A. yw. € A. Oozacc. 7 g. And OI April 26th. you acre bafera her tfaK the iiMnury s 9 racoptlta chat? 0. And That da you zeoogiiae that to ba. air? 9 A. TTiLM it a cep/ or a pi^perty racalpt that t fiUao cut tar 10 W. Wiaaich he was arzescad. u u 9 th6 ccpmcc? Q. Ckay. ihnse aze - - that ia a z^ort you flUad oiK of 10 A. ODrrect. 11 g. Lock at Cheae last tm> pagea, AgoX, and see if chat *• Itaea of petatnal pttpezcy you todt fzoat tha dsfandCK. 12 ChK's — first of all. lock at the page fcefere od aee if 13 ozzactr 13 cher'e your afflmatioi and dacher a not chX'a your 14 A. yes. 15 Q. Cl^. Jed tzi chat Use cf Icsia la a TImr ««Cdt cn the 14 iiMKory and zacutn? 16 lOMBT zlght-hnl aide; ia chat ccrzaec? 17 A. yea. 16 Q. Lock at aouezxim’a Bchibit 16. 17 lazzBce zesidnea? la that tha TImk «sceti 19 dec you'za zafaczlng to in that rttinilar item? 20 A. It Ray be. 21 0. Mall, if chac'e nx the «ecdx aid the only other eecdi is 22 tha aa cfaK'a bade here, it's aUnar nd road ad tfaearc 23 Hm a tacd) band oi it. daze is tha TIbbi eacdi tbat you cook 24 froaiar. NdOaich? 2S A. ic'e pittataly still at our offiea. 15 A. Yea. 16 g. Ani le that the Invsiccay sd zeoicn fer the (taxlMsat 69Ch 16 A. yea. 19 Q. Tail the rrenbei’a of the jury tm irany uecehea aze Uatad in 20 that invoncery? 21 A. 1 see OB blade dlvv's «eteh. 22 g. TOU Che BditBa of the jury bow bb^t aa-rtHa noa sic on 23 the edOBsa acanl up there? 34 A. Ttane. 25 g. leU the BBiLeta of the jury Im nav eardas Agate Sigir 1 1 tfUd oame fton tha I«um? 3 K. 1 bell»>« UtTM. 2 A. na. 0- And you a^ on there chac — ec you acacad there chac cha 3 Q. mi tha BitaiB of tha jury tly, if Agnt Sagar aaid thiaa 3 Tlnn chat's In ctwc teg there locks like the Tlnac chac tea -- 4 MCrtaa csie fzoi rhe houae, ycu 4 ctwc you cook fcon »t:. — oft of W. MdValch'a wdsc. occxecc? S only aw twcch chat «oa aeized chac «aa a diver's c>pa tacdi7 S A. < A. 8 doi'C put the naee b»d cf the weeh. 8 uiiuil tnler aacli chare laa MU, I jactafaly did not list this vetd). Uw alliwr vacdi. It's poaaibie ic could be fros his «dsc, Clwc loa atrtsat) fton his safe. 7 dlwr'a twcdi. Q. 8 Probably dldt'c? Q. Ck^. Oi the tecum I IC juac a^e aw blade Muld you tall this a diver's wcdt? » A. ic 4vaaza chac 1 dldn'c — W Q. day. 10 11 A. — ctwc I tnds a lAacaka. 0. chan it also appean chac cha bag «dch the oo MCehas U Q, Nall, X nean. is chac Mac you tould call chat? is chac lew you would iksri ll'ii it? 12 A. xc'a peaaible. 13 In U. the be black boded wcchea. Chat one of those la cbe 13 Q. M locdi chac W. NdOeiCh had oi ac Che else of Ma aneae. 14 would you? IS eoevsec? u A. That'S posslbla. U A. 18 Q. 13 17 Q. 18 So Che evidence with vwpeirc co dwe ms 17 A. IS Q. seised fron Che heuae is ccncsntnaced; is chac fair co aayr 19 A, 20 9 A. I viculiti't Bay it laas caiCaninaCed. cither from W. MdMieh or his house, 21 19 They ueie aaiaed it appears chat chare haw been a wlatake as co there chey haw ban Xt 03uld be. MU. you eercalnly teulOi'C oaU Chls a diver's wacdi. M. A diw'a wMdi hiB anbes on It, clgtae? Yea. So Chat Men you're diving, you coi calltzsCs the Bettings so Chat you can tell how nudi air cine you have left, oariecc? 30 A. CCneet. 21 Q. Ooy. So tw don't now Mow. baaed inoi your teaclmiy. 22 froB, be Chree aecdae tore aelaed either froa his peraoi or 23 23 CroB Cbe hows ehsc Suacained. NO, ic wBB nothing chac I did intoitlawlly Mbi I sucre to cha racum, it was an ouecBi^ic. Q. Nall, you get a ccnpucerizad list of itwie chac are neimd XX 13 A. yea. BTHI. mS: 13 HI. lOBr My I Hpeoadt, Mgiff Q. 14 OB CUKT: Ysa. Sir. Old you pediK out to sqow cha fact that AgaK 9igK, acw IS baaed ifm Mac )oi' re aqdng, «bb mistshw Mo\ ha aaid that 18 Outing siy tioe ixcil I txo^C It to your actnciai? Che iaei~lrn were not vlalble in Che safe? 17 W. Sill'lN: 18 19 IS nr Ht. KlCS: 16 0- Is this Mac you get? 17 A. Yaa. ThE OOCRT: dwmiled. 18 Q. THE MTOESS: 19 Cbjacc CO cha feem of cha ^jaaclai. YBu gat cha rBorts fron cha sgwwa aa waU, eerract? nr m. loiB: Q. Did yoi cell anycne chac peciepa Che wcch Chat you cock 30 A. Yaa. Q. Agent Sager testified about aaiachlng eellsd a log, a 31 saardi log? 22 froa M. MdCreich la In chac bag allagadly oaWng Ctoa a safe 22 A. Yha. 23 In a hows oi 69ch Teraoe? 23 YOU 9R a copy of the seardi log? 30 31 34 A. 3S Q. ». Q. ». 34 A. YM. Old 1C occur CO you chac the wacd) In the bag na#K weU 35 Q. AccuaUy, you probably get the original of the seardi log? 1 10. 7M. 3 Q. dov- 7ou bm all tboae Itm with yoi fzon the Uch (Mil the 36th, ocBsect? 1 FBI office, ccrxecc? 2 A. yea. 3 4 A. OC 3(Eil, yee. 4 A. ucer chat d^, yea. S 0- O^. Nell, the 26th of Jipcll tM Che dKe you nde your S 0. Ocay. After your recum &om the 69th Ttenace ad±ma. < » 6 eccrees? ncwn to Jjdge acw? 7 A. CGrrecc. 8 0. day. NOW. with 7 A. yea. co choee icm. you hM non dai 8 0. ACts yoB- arreet at nr. fcnelth. eeaxect? 9 A. Oxzect. ■pie tine to pnpeie theee UMKcrlee and recunw? 10 A. ne. 11 Q. diay. Km, can you cell me Kere the cgriginal pedoging is 13 {or Opwiiiiau-'e Qdnblc 16, Che cmd mcdae? 13 A. YOU man, like ha« — like a beg, a tsom bag or — 10 0. After your Invntary of the preparcy o< nr. Hdttelth, U comet? 12 A. Aiect. 33 Q. After the inwttsy thK ycu, that l ahowad you 14 Q. There tore oc brow ba^ Chet aganc Sager teatillad to the U ocher day about -- that hare were in like this? u that you filled out with cha icm chac imziaed the llraR 16 A. Cknecc. 17 Q. CD you Kew if Che uecehae ware placed in a bcowi beg like 16 A. yea. 17 g. Md ycu put Che two vecdse in that plastic bag, comet? U trusT 19 A. NO. Ae I eic hoe now, ne. But 1 lenw that Kn chey were U A. yea. 19 0. Old ycu oanidngle ths vecdi that s3ibm told ycu cm from 30 aeltad, 1 imadiaCely -- cr Knccly adcer lecumlng co the 30 the aafe with the «atdi that yoi took ten Ik. HdMlch? 31 otfioe that 21 A. I tfaen inco eur safe, 1 plaoad IS wcdi? It's poseihle I did. 33 Chan inco this beg hoe. 22 Q. nr. nxreith had a grand total of ferty^oe daUars and 23 Q. Sue ycu tinted? 9 A. QaiqlI . 10 Q. Out of the tuted and fccty-slx to a tuted and 11 nlmCy-slx other phocc^r^ha, in bow trery of thoae wee cm ip >dch a 13 grand total ol, 4bc did I e^, fercy-ena doUsce and 14 •l^Ky-Ccw esze; is cfaec corxecc? 13 Ik. mkeith wearing a plaid ehiit? U A. Kn. u Q. In the turkad and fcrcy-six co a tizted and nlnecy-eix 15 A. Yea 16 0. OeiwuMUJC'e Bdtitalt 31-F wee miaad — wU. let *n you pwt of that autvartllanea taaa? 12 A. YBB. 0. 3 A. itMve (phcnacicl, nyfea. S Q. Oi the 20th of toreh, you conducted a aumillBEe of — 6 the 30th of Much, 2001, a sueuaillanae ms ctnducted of 9 let ne bade to (or a ntfuce. Jr *"** 1 IXll L JUbW ii PIL • 8 9 it? 10 A. On I lock to It again? U Q. Sure. u A. Hell, I don't tom. I man, the sleeve goes rl^ dswi to his vrlsc. 14 0. yea. to «ea taaring a fiulti-colored Jehn Dear 3adwt. Ihv Mas 1 don’t, I ton'C torn. Q. toll, the aiaa Iceta pretty big czi to. toaggert, doeei'c u Q. >tBt «B ha Storing? It tofsrrs to ba the aeia ]ad(K in a different aUa. S sue certainly it - w . 3 Q. ab]«cUcn, Your ttznr. ovemOad. Ml. BIS1N: A. to. 35 Q. Did you mmr ask anyone to ds any follow^ InuMtlgaticn 3 Q. to the houee? 22 24 I police were ever Chan. MM police? IS A. u Ri^I agree that it is the sane style jadeec Chat I saw to. Wtteicb toarlng chat day, but I cai’C -- t dart tom if 17 Q. d(^. I ahowd you befse tovemm'a Miitait 21-P. You 18 aee it — you toot* «4«c this is, ri#K7 19 A. yias. 17 it's Che aane -- the actual jaekto, aaae slae. did to. wnelth tsve on that you rdesniert cn the 18 Q. toac 30 Q. 1 oean. do 1 need to show it to you closer? day. tte haa on the JCha Saar JaAat in this 22 piaure? 33 A. niatoi toiaggart. 30 A. He had cn a blade T-toirt, blade prate, and thto'a all I 21 xw0iIb^« 33 Q. YOU Men Icddng, «en you not, to aee If pardraca ha had 24 34 A. 31 Q. And tlac's the aea }adcet that to. wnaitb had en? 35 A. yes. 19 30eb? 23 oi a plaid shirt that day? I dldi't — I am hl/n driving the car. 35 out of toe ar. So, auce if ha «UlaEe can tculd hai« ban Icddng 5 A. tb. 6 g. But nm of chsa ahow W. Wttaich In a plaid aUcc, 7 7 6 A. YSa. 8 A. asracC. 1 t^uld, ChK wuld hM bes) saiethlng I nA^ hM ban loeWng 9 Q. I nan. you had, ccgecher, you and your aurveUlansa can. 10 about a plan to cbaecva nr. Hsceich n chat dqr. 9 g. Ybu'vB loctad at cheaa phoco^r^haf 10 A. YM. 11 mace? U g. you'ca faadllar vdcta Chad? U A. yaa. u Q. And you and yeur aucvalllanae can «oild ha«a. «ould tna 12 A. yea. 13 Q. Ybu Inod Chat cbexa*a not a pteOBa of tatae In a plaid 14 dlaeuaaad i4ac it «aa you «sa Iciddng for with caipeec Co 14 ahUtJ 1$ IS 16 A. yaa. 16 g. cna of the chli9 Uisc you aahad Cl« Ocuct fcr pemdaelcn 17 Q. Mid In your mind, the plaid ahiit by that tine had Ctf«n cn 17 to ataith fcr at the 69ch Teczaoa aCttraaa. the Ferolval IS U atUiaaa, wd in ?>r. na««lch's car wen naiapapai- azticlce, 19 A. yaa. 20 0. 80 you wuld haws cold ycur aiswillAnea caaov neng ottan 21 chln^, bo ba laddng for chat plaid #tlit? 19 connect? 30 A. yaa. 21 g. Ooy. And a ncMg^rar atciela ctiyaetioi, yt» itxxr. 14 Ite (XUtr; 03 ahead. U A. M>. 14 g. Did you do aiychiiig octe chan coUacc and {seasw chac IS BT Ht. KW: IS {articular icon cf evidence? 16 Q. llBta le a photoyeph in thac plcosa, aaiaU.7 u 17 A. cn Che seoad page, yea. A. lb. 17 g. There were phocegnpha taken cf the vehicle chac bene been 18 g. cn Che aecod page. A phecoyagh calaclv* Co the nattar at 18 incroducad into dddenca. eocrecc? 19 hantf 19 A. yaa. 30 g. di^. In the ncrnel -- in the oouraa the FBI's 30 A. yaa. 31 Q. Ony. Than yicjtup^i accclbucaa — er the Mlaad Idiald 21 cpacKlaa. you cake {hcccgrepla ac cr near the ciae of the 32 attrtbuCaa that ptsccgngh co Mr. MdCcalch, oKiacc? 33 aetsuce cf ai icon to preeerva It te pcocslcy aa It acpaacad 23 A. yaa. 34 0. Ck^. And chat la a {fccegnph of a ear aeelddit ddta 23 2$ Chaaa uaa a fatality, azxece? 34 A. y». MMalth'a Jbd teU ne ibether cr not that aoagtaly 4 the BT 7 Q. A fladili^ •• m a fladi bulb %aa used CO cahB Che 8 A. The aaae. 8 9 Q. And 9<7 9 A. I believe ao. y«s. 10 Q. Ybu were direcciig <4iac phece^spba to be calan? A. YM. Q. Ybu loMw at Out tim abcut the lat^a ceBCinav. de not ooeur in this particular ceae «dth TBapect co thia \ehicle. u u u OORBCt? 14 Mila, of Che diiiy Tbyota with the ipciiler m Che bade? 10 A. YW. u Q. as Ita atandard oeucae 13 phottyiiffM at cr about the tine of U 14 15 A. U YM. lb, tloC'e net true. conduct ter the ni to take bi incidn dldi't — did He tack photogr^ha of the \ehicle the d^ after the aaiure. aU the Intarlv ;prarp {fcccgcfba ceacified the ocher day about the robbery mr m Qalt Ocaan 15 A. YBa. 16 Q. OMy. 17 MB* takn cn the 1^. 17 18 Q. Ctid you accsipc to depict Chla picture as a ddiqr car? AU rl^. 18 A. 19 A. tm mnt back and tock acre (teco^^ha ac a lacer tine. 19 30 Q. In 9-D. «culd it be fair to aay tlec you could aaa oi the 30 0. day. 31 A. QZXBCC. The hood s the — 33 0. And that's the cnee that are here in evidence? The hood. 23 A. QxcBCt. 34 cn Che day of his arreac. 21 hoed that It'a in lastcy bad omdltlm? 23 A. 23 Q. 24 about tha hoed. 25 A. I’m not talking about the dm. I'm talking Hall, thecB'a am dmts in it. It'a net a wy good lb, 1 dirfet'c abtotpe oo d^ict U ddiq' or not. Nb juat CdgIc picc^sc0 35 0. Eib you dm'c cake any plecuTBa outside f« a anxh? ThsEB v«8 a picture of the car ojcelde hie heuae die? 1 A, YW. 1 A. OJliecL. 7 2 ckq'. Q. That’S ODvemisiC's MilbiC 10. 3 3 A. QxiBct. 4 0. You tsatified y«eceidBy' about placing a BOD ctr be on the s Icdc out for v^udes - - Cor a vehicle, oonecC? 6 A. 7 Q. Q. YOU teviawad Che rQxxts 4 A. Yes. s l«iat tank was that? Q. Cbcrecc. 6 A. Bank of Acnerlca. And you testified yestenfeiy that ycu based that BOO on 7 Q. Clov. 8 piTTiei daseripcicne fron cstaln indivldals: is chat ccezecc? 8 9 A. 9 A. It «ea a ccnpilaticn of wioieee desctipcicns. 10 Q. U IfrfOgTfBClgl? That coipilaticn of vatness dnsniprimn eduded cexcaln that rettery. UIAL UUL*ULXBd 141 AL 62^0 BU PWlBni] YOU reviehed both the BroMcd aaclff'a Office xqnrts c< that? Yee. 10 Q. Aod thB 11 talked to the wiDMeaes, cccrecc? of the a9enc itto zBeponded to tte scsie 9id 12 A. Yea. 12 A. Cbrrect. U 9tor instance, it eecludad the qpoller? 13 Q. Did you, in fact, reapend to that esene? 14 A. No, 1 did not. Q. 14 A. Oeracc. 15 Q. It 16 A. the ehlny paint jots That's CLAiBLUi 15 Q. Clay. Old you ever go bade and interview any ot thoae 16 witneeees? Oscncc. 17 Q. It aduded a -- it being a lejnca? 17 A. After chat rcteery? ito. IB A. 19 0. YM. IB Q. Hell, would you agree char - An Acuca Legend? 20 A. Yes. 20 A. Fort T.»nHTri»i« — Che Bart lauderdale Ceparomt? And a Jetca? 21 Q. Fbrt Laukardale, FCrt r^erientaie police put cut, yee. Oanect? 22 A. I dxi'C recall if I did car not. It did mt include, in an/ irsner, shape cr farm, »hac 23 Q. H>11, Itet lauderdale had a detective coepenting wteh you 21 0. 22 A. 19 23 Q. 24 earllar oie uitneas referred to as a Jesus fidi car scneehlng 24 alcng thcae lines, a fish on the bade? 25 A. 25 did you eae Che ECLO that the ShKlff'a Departmmt put out? in CMS invest igaticn, riche? Yes. LsHis • cross 1 Q. 2 dccixmcatlOR concerning the retteries, ccerect? Itfd that that detective ves s^pplylrg you vdth 1 BY Hi. ICMES: oBB U b(UB IB UbC Uuuio-k 3 A. He vae assisting in the Inveetl^tion. 3 A. 4 Q. Cka/. 4 5 A. And he VBS turning over zepexts to you. oociect? ether chan cte initial ljT.«sci9Klv« r^nce, inless yM Ym. Q. And chat r^orc indicates chat chase was. In fset, a BOD S placed out? have ecmeching to the ccnccary, I dsi’ c recall him Cuming ovr 6 A. If you haw a particular -- 7 any ocher r^cart he 7 Q. Msec to Che last — Chat last page there. 8 Q. 8 A. lb, it dcesi'c indicate that a BdD was sent cut. 9 Q. All rl^. 6 9 10 hav« dn. Mlchouc our going into a lixg a^ilaiatigi that would put Che jury to sleep, is it fair to say that nest of the reporta that I get cene fron the gouertrenc? 11 A. Y«B. Ya. u Q. day. 13 -- chat you are the pecacn «to others Chose npercs foe Ani would it be fair Co a^ that cbcee are — Chose 10 A. Mall -- It's just a desoripciai cn the police rapesc of what a 11 witness nay tave said wtet Che car locked like. 12 Q. u B^LUi Lli uW LBUA m liJB <.4Ua UULliX^J Ttec drsnlrrlm contains nothing about there being s fiah 14 purposes of gKCing chart to your accotneys to get — to 14 A. About the fish synbol, no. IS 15 Q. day. 16 A. ttHTSCt. 17 Q. 1< ccerecc? A. 17 Q. le 19 yes. ckay. So if there were a BCIC accadsd to the csiginal lauderdale offense repatt, you would have eean it; ie Chat eorxecc? 20 A. Cbcrecc. 21 Q. Ckay. 22 24 25 ns CCUIT: 19 Q. Rad cr rarcai? A. UwJLlQLU • Q. day. 22 rtwT-rihB CO ycu Che fact there wee itec one wdcneeB, 23 tttr. Fsnae, has cascifisd to aa a Jbm type fish oi Che bade (toy I eppioach, Juc^7 24 of Che >«hicle? Yes, sir. 25 A. Yea. m. HAGS: 1990, 1991 htecadas? Red or rrarocn. 21 right? Ybu renenher getting the initial report? 23 A. It says, no tag? 18 A. 20 Because you do lenenter gKCing the initial report. 841 there were you the first cine ycu heard «iy witness prior CO his Ceaclucny or preparatioi for this trial, there 1 tm ttx * oltneM Uwt dMoribad tiw fiib en cb» bade of tt» 1 Q. Stay. 2 ear. 2 A. Ihat'a true. 3 Q. HK4 ptetegr^ia dcwi to 4 praparlng to teetify? Ftelaa oi the day that ha wa It certainly wBoi't In any npocta? 3 Q. And evsi theu^ they an acnadiae comai, wculd ycu egraa 4 chac that is the kind of infarnaclai chat you would -- well. 5 A. 7w. S would aeccacc ycur attention if It waa glvn to you? « 6 A. The fidi ayntol? Q. IM either OanemiaA's BfUblt lO-A cr ttweuuM«.*e 7 • 7 0- YW. 8 A. YM. 9-F too to w. petiae? A. I faelie¥e they were. 9 Q- chtt (sortiBK 9) both d chcaa i**'**''j^*ir 9 Q. JRl it 1b the Kind c£ infTiniWilqn tlMC you in 10 la that syntaol, th« fidi eyitol that we’\e been dlacuealng? 10 aiy BCU3 thee yoi would asd cut? U A. 7M. But I dan't losw itoi the fiah synfaal iioa put on the u 13 car. It could have bean after the Haventer 24th zedaary. U Q. Say. 9s If It «ae after the Mavoitaer 24th roUOeiy. than 14 that CDulSi't ta«e been the car chat wee Undved In It, rl^7 13 would ha^ you pcaalhly elimnate a whole aerlea of oaxa? A. Yea. 12 Q. Becatm it would be an identifying type dtararxeriatlc that 14 A. y«B. 15 Q. ID your jgieeladge, an you the fiiat ember of the 15 A. I oei't eneior fer »r. nrlae. I to'c -1« Q. Ntil, «f«c I'n aaytna la. la thee if ywr aicpoaiciai la 15 liiaiiil Ini cen that cme Into cmacc with Ren Aodra? And t 17 than the fiA eynbol laai't pio cn tocll after the xcOeiy chac IB (ju-uiioJ at ttiiiiuiLui 34th, 2000, Chat the car that belot^ to 19 17 nan that in the invastlgacive aanae. la A. I wae net. Atxher agne. I ballewa, waa. 19 Q. Stay, tts was that? 20 A. NO. 20 A. I'Ri aayliq that I can’t anawar for what nr. PBclaa 21 aaw. I -- what he atw waa «hat he b»>. 22 Q. And you can't, and you can’t aniier Ccr where nr. nrlaa I belle^« It waa Agsit MUler. 21 Q. Stay. And did Agant KlUar repeert bade to ycu cataeailng 33 flrac 99C cha idea chK thm toa a flah ayabol cn cha bade cf 22 ». Attn? 23 A. molding? 34 cha car aa wU, conacc? 24 Q. Ua aoMnacian wdeh Um. 35 A. csiace. 25 A. m eet with him. t^a - Owtaa I believe he say tave Mmd him a __ ______ M4 1 Bi^pOSlB. 1 3 Q. O^. Ha aaivtd hln a au^oena ac a buaineaa addbaaa chK 2 A. YBBn. I tiujvc you saia Suita t\ao rmired BonBCning. itub 3 Suita 434. 4 Q. Sl^. If I did. I'm acciy. But it'a 434. 3 nr. Antra tad ec that tlae, coertca 4 A. I don't. I dvi'C lent wtae the atfrowia asvlce code 5 plJCB. 5 « Q. mu, you're Mre Chat nr. Anlra tad a tiAinem addraaa, 6 oaea mteittne the ten Anln uead en a '• in tha ngular ccuraa 7 a / A. I'm not aware cne way or the ocher, 9 Q. ccea Che .ail,mu 13605 South Dixie Klffeay, Suite 434, Did you or afqcna In the inittetijitim proceaa of thia of buBlneea as his cloalng agent? 5 A. No. 9 Q. Did you or aryexe else In this caaa ever Aedt ftn Anlra'a 10 MiAicl. FlCKida ring a baU «dch you? 10 OHiacdiip cf land a cha enpucer ayacan in Ode CCuicy ficr u u u A. YM. u hom svl hojBBB? 0. Oaf. 12 A. A. la that the adftam fer AOia Itana, Inc.? it could be. It ecuidi like a bualnepa adCbraaa. I (UA'c. no. 13 0. mu. did aLUBJB alae? 14 Q. mu. doea chs aozd like the adftaaa -- none, lac ra dee M A. NX A ny knowdet^. 15 you A dsoranc. 09 you IS Q. dwy. AgtnC MLLLBT BBIW a ttA^AAUI Cll m • /Viu-ba^ 16 thlB peart IculBf dxuwtc? 15 A. Yea. 17 Q. omy. IB thee particular •- Chat cepy of that doarant. »Vim kvSm name Kmim Ciidt* ^ name ^>iar imaA i/nel mp» «‘i‘a'a» m 19 cc?)y of tha gcuLp cf itoiB ttoc wen catmi fion nr. HKalth'a 20 wabicle at cr tox the llth cr 12th ot a^l7 21 A. YM. 23 Q. I eaan. dacawar dv it waa «f» cha aaardi of cha ck waa 23 oonAicted? 24 A. Yea. 35 Q. Okay. And chat dewa — cha ad±raaa chat 1 read ycu than 17 A. 1$ A I believe eo. M4M We* mn* its mim* ■ fhaP riimi9 19 A. AC Chat tima. 1 dA'C believe eo. 20 Q. Stay. Did he later? 21 A. YM. 23 Q. Soy. Did he hen a iMyM vhan he did thac? 23 A. Yae. 24 Q. Did he aaeerc a mA Anendnent privilege at chac elite? 25 Hi. siaiN: Cbjectioi, YOur ttneer. 1 » 1 Sustalnad. THB auv: Suatauiad. 3 BV Ht. K2CS: 3 0. Do )«u loDw if 1^. Aidza tMClflid han bafee* this Jury 2 Mi. K9B: NaU, ril I^taeae it than. 4 inkr a grant of limited imuilty? 3 enr Mt. kscsi 4 Q. Men you eeie chat n-. KReitfi vee tha regiatand aeiar s 5 Hi. siSFiN: Judge, I'n goins 00 ottjacc to me line o£ 6 HMTlmln] cf this wineaB. 6 A. At -- M»7 7 7 0. Cn tha dKa cf hia amat? ■ ve OURT: djKainid. B A. BT Nt. iOB: 1 balieve en the day of Ma arteac, 9 Q. Did )cu ever inveetl^ee nr. Mlze'a broctar? 10 A. tb. U Q. And the — 10 A. u 12 Q. Do you bcw •- did you. did you Icnow vfether or not Rn Ml. IOCS: I epolcgiM, nr. lUttelth. u nr Mi. H3CS; 14 Q. Mould it be fair to eey that W. Mdtteith'e car «w Und of 15 aeBByT 16 A. me. n Q. Did you collect everything in the oar that you thoiB^ la ni^K be of aoie r^luel 15 A. Then Mere a ruito of b^ -- dledr that, vee, 1 9 0. cn tha -- t»w about the nocter street hcuae? I )ocw that he lad uaed tliat uddniee aa a place of u reaUbnee, yea. U Andre's -- had Ibi ftidn's naie coie to your actantloi si the 14 date of his amat? IS A. Ptcbably en tha df/of hia amat. 16 Q. you throu^ dsamnta, eocxect? 17 A. CBOTBCt. IB Q. And tha naie of Mr. Andie's pool ooipaiy cans to your 19 attmis) at that tine too, mmcc? 30 oollacted Itsa cr tayete that I thet^c vaee relevent oo the 20 A. 31 CMe. 21 Q. Hell, let ne Juat cut to Che cteee here. Then «en no 22 Q. And at the tin cf the, at the tin of that collection, the 22 dsomca in tt-. htttelch'a vehicla that had Ibi Mzs'a tmm 23 nan Boi Mza aesK ajithlng to you, oeiaaet? 23 tn thee, ochK chan eloaing itoitenta. octncc? 24 Hi. SISIN: Ogect to tha tcan of tha ^jaacicn. 34 A. TIB waCT: 35 Q. Than ven no buaineaa cards vdth Ibi Andn'a nane on it 35 I dai't irderetnl the queattan. 1 (bi't blow about that day. but soot thenaftA. I believe that's true. iMflB - ftmaa I for hia brother'a buaineaa that had bavi clcead dowi sinoe 1 Q. ^Ecrd Title tneurance Agency? 3 1995, eecxaet? 1 A. Ocerect. 3 A. YM. 3 Q. d^. Mu never calked to her? 4 4 5 Mr. Vi^ and Vi(U ^stiuctloi, or vhatever the rape cf hie 5 Q. day. HlCh n^ecc to Rn Andie? 6 coipaiy vee, the nsi Mo di^'t pey taNW, rl^7 7 A. Oeeteet. 6 A. NO, vdth respect to W. KdCreith. B 0. any. B Agency hee neny eloaing 9 TIE CORT: Boy. «e all renenber him, dan't «e? A. B49 YQBCla IOb UIK jQU pUb U- HILU II Hill U iXLXB« i UUf ill i^« 7 Q. Ck^. Did you aM( M. Rblacn at Oxioced Title inauEBEe 9 A. had dale foe Rsi Andie? I te't tiiink ». no. 10 8cr Mi. HMS: 11 Q. Id the three laniitwe that use onductad at Mr. -- idth 10 Q. Wan you ceetifiad the ocher b. 24 Q. Did you «er taUc to Ouol Rebiaen. R-O-B-t-S-O-W 25 A. lb. 11 diffierenoa# tnrueir the bnk umaib of nr. moeith nl me 16 heuMa in the ana? 20 A. tb. 21 Q. rufi you aaa aiysa pupire the daonmes thB «t with Che 23 policy — Che «jbndcced in etder that loes could be 23 had cn the pt^ertlea? 24 A. tb. 2S Q. You alnply wlT' ieiinrl you being lav anfcecunt. Ctsou^ 1 4 2 2 flcfC Boregage by ifcn Mxa chac «ae paid off. ri^7 3 A. ctrwee. 3 A. Y«B. 4 g. And he cane aay Wch about tMency theuaand dollar — 5 decemine hw ic was chac cbeaa pawlcular l4ndlrg inacinrltiia 5 euancy-cna thousand dallace fnm the sale to Nr. Ndttelth of 6 cane co be involved in chia caae •• or in cbeae Icana, I aboold 6 thac hoiae, rt^? 7 6(V? 7 A. 4 Q. B A. DO you )on< -- lac iiB bade if). Did you actdipc co vea. B g. And ChaC'a pseccy oenalKanc «r decermliie tits it «as thK pmUiiiuul those 4 ltOB7 1 A. 20-13. 2 g. Flagm Slsctiwic. a 8*^ Disonn, ri^? 3 A. yes. 4 g. A tueked nd toi dal lew? 5 A. lb. S A. yes. e 6 g. do bou^ it? Q. Chay. Md i«ur MRS one we twecy teh--iSac «M tbs 7 noic (», JsniBi aces, 20-6? 7 A. Sa sigacvice en the boccan e S g. d^. A. Six. 9 Q. Here'S no acwlng d «to bau^c dees at Jazrm Shoe 10 seen, osrset? HUhest Hdttelch. reoc loetar Stass. is chsc the Mkc ens? 9 A. yes. 10 g. DDCB it aey do hoi^K ic? 13 yax baeie thee* in evldsnae thae indlcetae i4d it vee thK inde 11 A. Ib. 13 g. dcay. disc's Che nm OB? 13 A. 30-15. 14 Che purdaee? 14 g. All n^. Scae ate noi^ aoSers. Coes iC Indicace do IS A. ocher ttwi It «as ford, you todw, Airlns Che aeetth, no. 15 bou^ the neray cedars? IS A. lb. 11 A. Oi the i«oel )t, no. u Q. Ckay. Mall, is there scoeplaoe other tlan the leoeipt that U 0- Clay. itMC's the nen die clMC's RBztad thne? 17 g. Did you try co trace siy noay odse in Chis ease? 17 A. 20-7. IS Q. Sac's « ajto r^eir? 19 A. Xes. 20 Q. M dees It he«* an Irtllrarim of do's the pQor, do the U A. N9. 19 g. you daw ^ chces mt^qe — or three landing insclcuclaa 20 thsc uere imolied in this csee. eeorceec? 23 A. NO. just Chat It da cn a Maroedsa. 31 A. yes. 22 g. 2nd you never tried to credc doan dacher cr not all or 23 Q. Oasn'C say a beat 23 Btc ot this sl^ ludred and fifty-nine dallacs and fOuixam 31 lUJ^’ GVB £lUltf 19S9, 190 Mioadas, nc^7 24 A. ». 2S Q. itBC'B Che nset oa chat las a nadc en it? 34 osnes MnC to one cr sore chose IsiUng inscicuciaa. 35 oorzecc? * —J 1 A. lb. 2 Q. mi dec's the nac oa? ^ la aa 1 A. yes. 3 g. tasuR to the aaeweien of a seattb MSTranc? 3 A. 20-17. 3 A. yea. 4 g. King todd laatry? 4 g. dare in the vdiids did you find it? 5 A. CTset. 6 Q. King tavid. Ine.? 5 A. 1 believe in che ^dboad sree. e^fee Cm wtTtidrteld. 7 A. yes. 7 A. a 8 g. day. Let na show you your ^liescien fee Che ixaiai 6 g. Ms 1C accadad or iiactadad? Q. Aiy nana en chars? 9 A. Ns. 10 Q. dec's the nac one? I dan'c, I dai'c recall. 9 varranc with resgecc to thia neccer. 10 A. day. u A. 20-lS. 13 Q. teeny KUfigar? 11 g. cn ycu p to the last ceyple oC gegM there, ^ur 13 A. yes. 14 Q. m/ iidleetlen en chac cxe? 15 A. tb. 13 A. day. 14 g. On ycu cell the iiaitars ed the jury dacher cr noc ic U g. Ouy. Have tm canted all of the cash xsoa^ca, to the IS A. lb. it -- no. 17 g. So the official record that's filed with the cleric of the 13 17 best of your xeeoUscclcn, in there? llliiiiiitiij ml lecum? 15 indicacee thsc the 9w Peas was feud there? IS A. yes. 19 g. . day. 8o oo ouc of toi have wLlhaR Ndbreich's lase en 18 ocurc fton the Older of this ttuct dtaavc indlesce thsc che 20 ic. n^? 21 A. yes. 22 Nt. HMB; 30 A. that's cccxecc. 19 an Mas VOS foind. eorrect? 21 g. Did you «elce a xepcrc ogoeadng finding aiv ^ these 1 need just a acnanc, Judge. 22 iCBIB? 23 gy m. tots-. 24 Q. you csscifiad en dliecc emniacioi clac you fOind this 9xi 23 A. 2S Mas in Mr. Mdtrslch'a vahlcle? 35 g. dcay. CD you I Mxce a regorc detailing the — or omering che face chat 34 Che vehicle cne of Che [aqaetiea. 9 Q. Ola/. Nall, lac'a go Co Roland T^lca: and 99 tack CO aone 10 nf rhih • fnrvi 4n Mr M-Vm^rh'a nwr **^4 Fixec of all, t±j you tom «4b TtOEia Evene ie7 1 racelpe book; ia thac cccrecc? 3 A. na. 3 Q. And the first oitry ia April lac, 2000, ceatact? 4 A. Yaa. S Q. Rk aevoi Imbed ad fifty dollars? 6 A. yea. 7 0- The noK oicxy is April -- fron Rads Evas? 8 A. arxBcc. 9 Q. Ckay. The aaoid exiy is Apll 14th, 2000, a deposit fer ID 11 tslpa you with your noiccy with laapecc to Raloid T^ler. 12 A. Clay. na. 11 A. Y«B. 12 Q. And if ay noth is cccxecC, dec brU9 us — well, to a 13 Q. 13 tocal of cne thousand one tuded and fifty dollara, clebt? In fact, you toad a rental qrasnsK? M A. na. IS 0- Cloy. Si^nd by ?B. Thyls? 14 A. Yea. IB, I truat ycu. (bch * NR* oa Uac 1 Jubc oppi«d C*&ob7 S A. tb, ic'B dlffam. 4 on the receipt Ae ovae cvo lurtaed aid fifty doUacs. rl^7 < 7 OK? Ito'll hM to «U else In. 6 Q. Tto tuideed — tvo luiOred -7 A. Ombb tuBXy-five. B A. Ua aeooxi oa le cto titcy. t 0. OMe oaesy-five. Clay. Ibw, if ay nech le evnet. » 3 a note on ic. She paid esvsn eaveney'five, hx ttare’a a note Q. See <4bc vdu gK ter cnacing ne? Chay. Ito> nudt ij elac 0- All El^. Its) MB've ^ ai Augac 3id oa. Ybu lave cla S A. yee. TUD hsrbed -- eves tvency-flve. 9 adthox including the oa I tvaiAX., va’re ac aevsn clnaand 10 Ally Bch te've calAed -- 10 nine hbdeed ad aewcy-flve dollars ac this point. rl^7 11 A. CBciecC. 13 0. — ebeuc n A. correct. 12 Q. So if we adi Che two tixdied and fifty -- ad, pleaM, you cl^ — U A. COczect. 14 Q. — fer seven Mvency-tive. 15 Thai AugjBC Izd tOr eevai U A. GBrzeec. 17 Q. itaai s^xaitei 4th ter seven fifty? U A. Yee. 13 uea the raimiarry uell, we'll do •- we'U add the two fifty 14 ac eta end. oloy? 15 A. AU n^. 16 Q. All rl^. Ibe. Chan Mruary 3rd. iblsnd Tajfixx pqa a 17 thouinS tuiAnd dDllAV? 19 Q. ihai Oceoter lOCh tor seven siioy-five? 18 A. YSB. 19 Q. And Chare'S a note of two ludred cfallars da? 30 A. yes. 21 Q. Thai tlT TiTtri' 3rd for sa.«i fifty? 20 A. CCrrecc. 21 0. wrdi 3rd, Ibland Idylcr pqe alx ludesd ad alxcy 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And thai Dsueitai' ileh tfam's seven sucy paid, buc a note 33 dallats? 34 Chat's — nxe on the reeelpc thsc Ae <»es chlzty dollars. 34 Q. Mrdi SCh? 35 rl^K? 35 A. YSS. 33 A. Mrdi SCh. —- Mk 1 0. Banple two of vfiy ncc to crust ire. 1 0. iharB ware also sane ocher icaia ford la W. Maceeich's 2 April 2ni. Arlsne Higgins piye ei^ic luAwd ^Uazs? 2 3 A. on a secand. You said nedi — YOu eaid Wuidt led. 3 A. ocher dial? 4 0- 4 0. ocher Cbai dae we've calked itnr, ao Car? S A. It's really i^iJi 5ch. Six einy. 6 Q. Six sixty. 7 A. CKty. S A. YM. 6 Q. nr aonple, you gcc aoe osdit cardi Ccob hlia. a 8 Q. Arlsne Kiggua cn April 2nd p^a el^ tiiAad? 8 A. Yes. 9 0. Cksy. 9 A. OocTBcC. 10 Q. And also on April M. this Is Calvlai er Odvln Mdgsc U (phcracic) psye Six flfcy? 7 IMscaid. First Uiidi visa, aaie oehar tiling like chac? 10 u Ht. lOS: Judge, nay I twacadi ad go ctan^ a CDiple of these icaie with him? 12 A. Yeah. YcB. 12 13 Q. Ci^. 93 toild you ncre cr less a^ee clac ths total is U gy Mt. K2S: u 0. ttjw, laec vadv befere trial we all aac CogKbar, Che fw 14 alevai chouaad one luiAed at^ay-five dilate? 15 A. Yes. 1« Q. Plus Che cw fifCy. vtUch you need Co add oi fer ae. uc aajtT: yae, sir. IS of ue, right? u 17 A. Ck^. Elaan chouend four chiicy-five. A. yae. 17 Q. And diile we're ledetng ac Icaia, you — efae office vae U Q. HM, did you calk co Francis -- you aliealy — I aliea^ 18 gged an^ co nake na trplaa of aae thinge. eorraec? 19 ashed you if you calked co Francis Evans. Did you mt talk to 19 A. Yee. 30 0. And lac ne Mow you ao>e of these lean ad aaa if you 30 iblaid Taylor? 21 A. It>. 31 reeopiise vbac they are, atd chai you cell ue wlace you 23 Q. Arloa Higgins? 33 A. W. 24 Q. ^vln Mc^ec? 22 fOtfxl chn* 23 Flrec cf all. bdubic Mater s. cafandac'e Miltait 25 A. lb. 35 A. Yee. 34 Haber 5. co you reapiise thee? 1 0^ Ooy- Do ^ 1 A. Y«a. «t«ve yoj fond ttaK7 2 k. IQ the vtiiielt. 3 Q. Ckiy. M ean >tu ttU a vAat thee la? 2 Q. Mac (tee it Mo< aa the belanoe? 4 A. 4 Q. dcay. Oaes it Mow a ondic line? 3 A. ns Imdred ad tuncy-five dilleta and Cota: OBKa. It'e • ehadc Cxor UnOra ibiat to HUtet MSOMtth tier S wfmKy-a* >uidred end fifty doUan. 9 A. Pin linlied, five tuiAad dollve. « Q. On ysu tail ut the date an that? 6 Q. So he's rl^ at the credit line? 7 A. ItQJBt 31st, 2000. 7 A. YH. 8 g. cfe^'. a 0. dcay. 9 9 Mt. iOBB: Waar >bnr, «e wculd im* to Inoabot M. IDES: YCiir (bm, I'd nove to inocABe 10 Dafandant'a BdtiUt Hubs 30 uxo widnee. 10 tlac into wtdmoe — U HE azKT: It will be reoelved In evidne. u 12 m. tos: -- at Bddbit s. 13 U lEefaae Bdutait Nuiber 5 'mm itliBd «)d teoei>«d in HE aotKT; It'S noamd in evldsce. (Defenae Bdiibtt MsOar 30 wee nerind «d raoelMd in U evidewa]. 14 BY Mt. IDBS: 19 Q. lode at MUtiit Mabar 21. if you tculd. please, nd see if U wldme] ■ U nr HI. lOB: 16 Q. Let me etew you Defendant's BdiiUt Miite 16, and etfe -17 Mil. thet'e not the ene. BdUblt Hjiber 20. oo you teoegniae 16 you lecD^iiae it? 17 A. O^. 20 Q. a^. wa that an iton fbwd inelde ifr. WReith'a 18 Q. 03 you nongiin it? 19 A. Y«e. 20 0. Mtat ia that? 21 vahlela? 21 A. It'a a BtatoBit ficem Chase Platimn hMsteceatd. 22 A. na. 33 Q. In the neee of Hiltet KXnlth? 23 0. Ctay. Md Mac is ttaac itaO 24 A. It'S a Hcne Oapoc noeipc, etatenenc. 33 A. Then's no naie on it. 34 Q, Ckm/. Hell, did you ever diadc to find ox if Nr. Ndtteith 39 0. Ot^. Doae It Mow a balam cn the scataaMrc? 39 )xd a Qtaae nscirun c&eSl It ttac pert Had er lc«a? 19 A. YM. r_OCS: Ycuc Ibis, 1 would non to ncM 31 Defandanc'a Bdiiblt 21 into ovidann. 23 HE COuatT: 31 is reoeind in evidaica. t beUen ao, 20 A. YM. 21 g. Md is it in tte — alchcu^, this is a eepy. 33 by ths US Accceney's Office bx rb, ri^? 33 {Defstae Bdilhic Mnber 31 tos neriNd and rsoeind in 34 aviteoel. 23 A. Yta. 24 g. Md it's a goal ciExaicclan of Che crigmel? 39 39 A. Yte. It vea nada imAM . r>mmm tnO 1 Qt oav3 3 m i«U. Ai^. Thla ij a. 5 OT1 1 m. K>ES: And I (KM cb lncicduoe this into evldann 4 t^a . Omaa ne oaRT: oefendm'* a will ta zaoBived la •vidKCB. Oafanaa Bdiitaic ttntaer 23 wa aailtad and reseivad In 2 evidenoe]. 3 EBTHt. H3«S: 4 Q. oom it ahow i4ot W. rtdtteitb'a balanoa naa chBa? 5 « HE HTDBSS: 22. •7 HI- >OB8; Jbdge, it'a 22, tae U« rececd. A. Qtva na a mtixica. YCu ^ing to, ^ 90U<9 co help no s 5 am yxi going to nake aa — aodlt SMailabla? 7 Q- ftadit available. a Ve OOKT: a will b* raeal7«d in «vi(tace. B A. ctadlc aero. 9 (EafMa Bdiltaic tkiitar a was nadcBd ail received in 9 g. Okay. Oadlt lUnlt? 10 •vldina]. 10 A. Fiva chouaand. u U Q. Cloy. So he tn'd this cn out too? 13 A. Yea. 13 Q. Bdubic Hjibar 24. do you reocgnim this Pizat UUoi 14 tateioud. Visa? nr Ht. IOCS; 13 Q. CkB/. to >cu laraitai tha latCarT 13 A. vaa. 14 Q. Bactoa Una it aa^, yoi liMn-t paid ua? Ik's behind? 15 A. tm. 15 Q. MUblc a u a nHuLWaait till? n A. ctay. IB 0- to you moiber finding ttac? 19 A. na. 20 Q. In BdUblt Hjrtar 20, tha red bock bad aaw aianMEit IS A. Yea. U Q. Ocay. And that naa also seiaed fmu hla car? 17 A. yea. 18 Q. a^. 19 Ht. lOB: 20 Jixiga. raealptB in it, asm? 21 A. yaa. 23 Q. Deaa It alcw Wot — 22 24 ?lla. ibw imy diffasK - - how cany, of the ten dlffacanc 17 Q. Ck^. The Padacal Bureau of invesci^Kiai has «i eitmiw IB coRputarlaad fila cn flngecprinte. astzecc? 30 banka, did acneoa ooie tzon ao* law enfcreoterK agaoey co 21 ooTixt a crUia ac»o Invcatl^ciai? 20 g. It haa. in Iqoan'a tsca. a nethc^degy by ubicb it can 31 nacdi by luibata on a gmeral baaia nam'i flngarprinta. a 32 cl^? 13 idboles, tt. tUtteith'B pnnee did not nacA ar^ of cbeed 16 A. itne. 19 A. Yaa. A- I beliew all of than. 23 Q. Mall, taoi't there oe «Bore the Infcmatlcn neo that the 24 perpacracs- was (waring glowaa, ail becauae of that, no erlna 23 A- OKZaCC. 24 Q. ftt- inatanca, they would edee ny eiuib [Tint aid aaaiji it 25 aoaw paraona can? 25 a sezlea of two digit ruibere, ba it ten, cwalw, twency, 1 3 itetsver it la, ttmy «ould asel?! a aerlca of luifcan Co chac, «d chac «ould ba Ctie coda fcr ny clint> prlnc, xl^7 1 A. Yea. 3 Q. Cl^. DO you laBBiter aeelng che haiz7 3 A. Orrecc. Q. tad ct« they cal iMs a club [rliK trem, t don'C tom, 3 4 4 0. 5 S halrr ehia 9it, Wmwor ie la. C A. 7 itara'a cba 9Ji7 m the bac. Q. could nat a pcuc ott this gta> co aaa If that 8 ndne, ccciacC? 9 A. yae. A. R>. 7 0. Chills A^b ibger (ale), you're familiar, ocher Chsi 8 Mhac'a on taleviaicn, «ach Dh, aaian.? 9 A. cecxacc. Q. aecai.iaa the am {xccesa by diidi they uaa to elaaaify try 11 thab {Zinc adch a aarlaa et ratbsea. they tculd uaa co U IS claeaify ClUa pnnc off the gui, the aaie aarlaa of lUitaca, 13 A. corraec? U 13 14 A. Mb. CD you taiertjB teUlng anyone to do eeBtohtng idch Che 6 A. 10 Q. 10 lb. In che Libaleet ame. I'm not 9ilng co aak you to eeq^laln the RDlacular chaala invod>«d. PlaMads't. Q. Okay. But ybu're mkb thee M imching can ba dene txm 14 iBlr aaiplea, ajnecc? IS Q. they oojld then, or aonbcdy csuld. uaa a ooipjcar end call 15 A. Yea. 16 1C CO mtd> all Che {zlnca cue then co aaa If Chaxa'a a tncdi 16 0. 17 beeween che Ouib pine chac coiee fianne hare and Che Uinb 18 print cheta, not totewing tthcae chle print la, ecrcaccT 18 charged, to appear mdar certain elreuraeancea «nd pcdjce heir 19 •enplea? 19 A. 30 Q. 31 A. cercaec. Ctay. 30 A. t«a chac dena in this caea7 2 Mi$a. And ytu’ie euoe Chat Cha gwiiisA haa che Uhetdcy to Yea. 0. Bor aarpariecn pui-pcaaa? 2 Q. Cloy, ta lean of pf^ialeal evidence tzen a pacien'a beCy 2 A. 2 MBB fonl In chla caae, oemcc? 23 Q. 34 A. Yea. 34 A. 3S Q. A hair? » Q. I eenuciad a rate co 89ne Sager che ocher dv of ■! Yea. Mil UML 1b m EKK CBSBB* UJLiVLLJ Yea. . /Wm 1 1 individial. Did that nm ring a bell wich )«u? 3 A. 3 Ma. Q. M alnce I've best che bucc of ny can ydeae. I'll oacliue wlch le. Me laae -- all loee hair et«rydqr> rlefK7 Q. a^. DO you tom toiy chac qjeeclai aaa aeHad? Nt. SISFIN: Cbgaccim, YCur Itoner. ftem of Che 4 cyjeBClcii. S 3 A. $ 6 A. Yea. 7 BY Nt. toe: 7 Q. Osy. 8 Q. 8 A. ThaC'a oariecc. 9 Kelvin? 9 Q. Ckay. 10 A. Yea. 3 Nt. fOS: 10 A. I'll tdchtbaw Che cpaaclon. In Chat {Mitlcular caae. in Kelvin -- vhac'a hla om. QUaoi. U Q. Glheoi. In Kelvin Oltsaai'a caae, did you UK IX jOl CO* jW chia eatot and ehia ratoi and chla todrt co Che m for proeeaning for Bfi. oerracc? 2 A. GCrracc? IB 31 A. 23 luisi naeglal aubjecc co TO caaclng could be fouxl chsa. 15 A. Qibesi, rl^c? 19 A. Me. RTJ WK 2 or did noc wear chat particular hat, oorxacc? 34 A. In chacry. yea. 2 0- Mali, are you saying chat cha TO Is InaeeucKa? 1 Co you fSBbsg chat 1 Af m. 2 Q. do/. 3 A. 4 0. 2 A. Ytea. Qgrcscc. 3 Q. Oi chac day, you met tdeb M. ItaRls? Ctoy. 4 Oaisci.. Wu'ie saying chat 1C inlglc net tta> ifi7 UicBHlae, eur body loses oslls chat czuld be {zssne A. S on a HUzc. <:i:a istt? 5 Q. Identified yourself? 6 A. Me. 6 A. Yes. 7 0- Chay. 7 Q. Rdsbly ahowd bar your badge, bscsuas Chat's ^ur 8 Itc ahirc «aa net teeud. mk to U» lab Scr OM 8 basting, osxecc? 9 A. NBC fbr M casting. 10 0. Oav- 11 12 13 jBi ■ mkrrU9 9 A. IV litewlflcsuai. 10 0. And ItX ter M testing. The UUced Seacas tas che authstcy Co atfc a couct co 11 you aec uich Ha. HBins, you cold her Cbe purpose of your investigaticn? hM sarsene ccy en pactlcular ICoib of cloching, cmecc? 13 A. yes. A. MS. 13 Q. YCu vacs oodwcing m invsecigacion of nr. HdOwldi icLth Oe^. 14 esHwee Co bw9c iLlAsi ies. eotran? 14 Q. ibe hndng any ftoco^r^bs ot ffr. ndttelch In ycur 15 oaUsetiot that yai cbcalnsd fraa tbs car. did you ever ask IS A. OBcrsec. U 1« M. ncrls told you Chat aha «ws fesilllar idth tfaac .. 17 Hi. yiUlN: 18 HB muCT; cbjection. Your tosr. Q. 17 Hr. Hdttelth? 18 A. 19 0. Y4S. 19 BY Hi. ICW: 30 Q. 30 A. YSS. 21 Q. H3W RSIV? Ml the vidao cages. 23 A. lyasa. n^e. And chs video cages? 23 CO you laiailjai of «hlA gsrttradar inclines Chose «eie? QxTset. 34 A. Yea. 25 Q. Hdcb ense? 21 34 YOU am two bs9 and aw Aizc for casting; la chat oczxscC? 22 A. 23 Sustained. Q. A. 25 Q. And the jadwe. And chs jadwe. Ibw. lac me cahe you to Miiii 19th. 2001. g. YOU ehousd bar acme plccuces? A. Itw Flzst Scuchsen xetbery, the Bardc of ArwcIos xttbary, 1 your gnswse, che peracn In chcae phetographa is NiUMre and — I dan'c taow. ihars irsy bsus bawi cuo plecuras fraa ow 2 HdOreich? rctbecy, 3 A. Q. am/. Ite. by this time, you Mere gecclrq a llctls bit of 4 locked like Milhst Kdtteich. heat tzcB yow boas to salw this csss, cl^? 5 Q. d^. So Che first tias Kelly nrxla eiwr said, chac is A. S Nilhert KXreiCh in choee pheco^TfAs, hsa in this couiuusi in a — I Mw I testified co Chat at the Ckad Jury, but I dcn'c chink ahe ever used choea mds. 9w aaid it In a •• not in a ehreatanlng «ey. 7 before this jury; is tlwc eertecc? Q. 8 A. Hell, it ray have bean than mb net with her in peqwretiai 1 taat'c Inplylng chat your boas mbs chEsacenlng you, but you MBTB gattlng acne heat to get this trecter settled ip. 9 for trial. n^7 10 Q. Hichin Che lest Meek cr tMO? A. lb. It we ane — he's a -- he's UMStlgated rettwiies 11 A. Ctr earlier. 12 Q. day. • OM thirty yeeia in hie bureau career. Q. day. 13 TW CORTi Kuld this be B 9xxl place to ectfi? A. And it aae me along the lines of. mbII, lens, you biov, 14 Hi. IDB: YSB, Sir. «tsn are you going to salve this thing. 15 HE aXKT: All n^. ist'e take cur nccnirg recess Q. day. Now, you're looking, nban ysu talked to IN. mrla, 16 now. fer intecnetlai t>wt will allow you to get a eeerch vecrant, 17 arrest wartanc or both, n^7 18 mtivcaa. A. Hell. I dldi't have any e^yectaclaw. I iwb just -- 1 ww 19 ladies and gsntlarai. we' 11 be in leoeea for fiftewi m. Savlov, 1 9X yoks noca. so vs'll be me than 9Mng CO IrcarvleH her and see there that lad. 20 hngy to aooonicdace you tcmitw ao you can gat yoks- tiidarl Q. Saa idwce chat led. BiK «4» aha lodwd at the sbooea chac 21 co Che dBccor. db'. she nMT mar aeld. chac is HUharc Hddeith, like dw 33 JUattU«(4: Thankyoi. did in this couzticon. did aha? 23 HE OOCDT: Ml mrdi longwr will you be. (to you think. A. That'S correct. 24 Hr. Howes? 35 HI. IDES: italf hour, feccy'-fivw adiucea sc che nest. Q. Hwn we the first titrt chsc Kelly Hade sm said, in -3SO. 1 seal Ua mrlng a plaid ahixt. Ikltf zaeHB]. 2 0. Qi otter cccMlaM? 3 HB OXKT: 3 A. yea. 4 09 ahead, air. 4 day. S Ht. 1E5ES: 5 A. tb, it «os -- It ml^ have been the 20th. the Miiii 20 — 5 Cloy. 1 SB OaHT: 3 6 9 8Up dMl, Sir. Be ——* Hr. ImAt. Thank you, YOur Hra^. a m. H3WS: 7 Q. B Cl^. Ben, lec im eca/ ulch yeu cn Mrd) l$ch of laac year. ChaC Une, «• toe talking to Nally Mrrla. rha~rl[rlrn of how 10 A. U Q. BC She gave you a Q. Is that In isBK'atien fer trial? 7 A. - 2001. 8 Q. All rl^. 9 Wttelth «euld normally dreaa, octnet? Q. aything about plaid Marts? YW. 10 A. Oxrecc. BC Chat tine. U d^. aald ttwt ha ueually ten the am atyla But oi Che. bic oi the 19th. de dtdi'C aenticn 0. Bnd — 13 of clothing, bladt panta. a blade T-dilrt and blade dnea? 12 W. KM8i my I Bisoadi, Aafga? 13 Cearect. U TME QSJtTi Yea. sir. And ahe said he «culd fxa^jancly waar the am style ai the 14 BY Mt. >OCS: IS Q. A. 14 Q. 15 tinea that da aan bln, etweet? IS A. let ne have yeu lode at adiiblc IS. Bakyeulfyeu 16 reoogilaa that pamfiilar sbeeeep»(h. y«B. It 17 yea. IS Q. dray. t naw. I'B really cyxT.ing «hac you aald befcae hate. 19 A. tb. 20 30 Q. 09 you lenr Mate it oae Citno 21 21 A. N9. 22 Q. In Che ceursa of your wsk ae ai m agas dealing with 18 A. 19 Q. A. yea. 22 Q. 23 COarlngly absent tzon that eaa aald ty W. Karts to you la 33 ary imtlon of s plaid dilrt. oxxact? 34 A. 9a didi't -- on tha 19th. I ddi't bellew d» — she did 35 ret nsKldi that. rebbadaa, d9 you cry to ka^ utaeaec of faahlai ad clothing atylaa of iidlvldala? 25 A. Btc on ochK occaalcna, da md da baa . rMa 1 34 m«e you aw ssai Cbec -- the color oqy? )bt really, no. AM Q. day. 99 that particular lt«n haa re al^dfloee to you? 1 he Uwl cn Mrelvel? 2 A. YM. 3 Q. d^. 4 atfercarant to gat fingarprlnta off of this Itan. Owaunent'a 4 ane auzvelUanoe of the dafttdaic? 5 5 A. YH. 6 Q. Me calked about the 30th cf mrdi of this yaar? 7 Q. Bnd the surface la coduA'a to fingerprinting, ecaxect? 7 A. yea. 8 8 2 A. 3 tb. Q.. HBce ay UtaipCs node ty an)oia Inolvad In lav Milblt 18 and la-A? C A. N9. A. yea. 9 0. Bnd you have at tinea bean ImolNad In inwatlgatlas dare Cdd you--you nentlened yeecen^ you oarducced Q. d^. Nat other 9 A. did you caAcC eurwillace? I aaa ■■ nyaalf ad ny partner frem the SaAff'e Offioe 10 XU 11 u few diye bafse he tea arieaced. A. yea. •• •> > .4 ^Vemm ■ lenB * 13 Q. In Che area? U A. trlvlng, yea. Occiecc. M Q. crlving a lahlcla? ibM, no attaipt toe tiada en thaaa tw, da ai atxo^ «aa IS A. yes. 15 nide di this m? 16 Q. Ms hs elan cr with athsrs? 17 A. 17 A. M UBS alow. Q. day. Md that -- I ireai, you ]ust saw hut driving? 13 0. 13 Bnd the am la true with to Itsai 17 and 17-A eesvaet? 14 A. IS Q. yes. 18 Q. Met UBS dm with ths T-shirts that uare fouid at the 59th 18 1$ TWxeoe addeeasT 19 A. Yes. Stceed In ota office, in our avldaea facility. 30 0. d^. Md that's ths ody ocher surveillance that use Btlll there? 31 eba? yee. 23 30 A. 21 Q. 22 A. 23 24 35 Q. Wh Kout the pmts? A. yee. 33 34 A. Of Che defaabn, yes. Q. day. ttuld it be fair to say that chat lould be the flrec ClBB chat you cm Into — that yx, ptyalcally saw 25 Hr. Kttuth? 1 Ik tb. 1 A. I bellaw that wa the 3 Q. I nw, at thB 30ch of mtOi? 2 Q. Do you loow tbether cr ret he wa [sovldiiig that a***— to 3 A. YM. 3 4 he gaw Mi. Hxria. M. ictxia in z^cKtlng to her? 4 A. I bellaw he waa, yaa. 5 Obcou OtmT S Q. And Mat wa that location in Pareiwl Ananue, idiac did it 6 A. 6 ootalat of? Q. 2nd t)M a few deya lafcae hla acreac Oriviig aond in Yea. 7 Q. And Chn tAe thiid tlnB wea the itey of hie aEzest? 7 A. B A. Yea. 8 9 Q. Did ^ haw aerial eurwillenca? 9 of the aearch. It wa a wry, wey -- 10 A. u 10 tb. U It wa a, It wa a hsuae in the Qro« eectlai of MiaiiL. But Mvea Ab. Ndmth’a belonglngB «ae«, ften ay tandaraundins tR. >OBS: t dai'C haw any other queetiona, Jlilge. Mi. KMS: 12 Cienk )cu. 13 tHE aXRT: 14 Mi. SSPIK: 15 nadlrect. Mr. seafln? thank >cu, YOur ifefBr. flMCT EOMOmiSM CfcgaetiA, ju^, aa to Mtat hie U iideratanding wa. tw coKi 13 BY Mi. SimM: 14 Q. Suatairad. did you go to the loeaticn? 15 A. 1 (taM by it. 16 BY Hi. SZVIK: 16 Q. Did you ewr go inaide Che imarim? 17 0. Agac Lewie, then Wan eoia qjeatlona aMcad of you 17 A. lb. IB xegaasding n adOreae on rereiwl AawueT 11 g. Here thee* 19 location? 19 A. YM. 30 0- And a eeei'iJi tanrant «aa oatdKCad at that Xccatim aa 20 31 ueU? 21 oonclittlon. icana of avKWmary wlue fciad at that Mi. ICWS: dijectlcxi, Jix^. that calla for a 33 A. Yea. 33 Q. And how did that adATuia coia to yw attttioi aa to 23 24 «hecher or not it had ante praalbla osneetioi to the M 2S ^fsrlnt? 25 HBe ulm into poneaaiai by the fBl? t» auc: SuBtainad. 33 BY Mi. SIEPIN: Q. Hen then ay Itsia eetxed aa a part c£ tMa naa that 1 A. Yea. 1 other than the 69th tHrteca reeldsne, dadng Chat tuo to three ' 2 And tuoied ww to the you? 2 wek period of tin? Hi. lOCB: Objacclai. tW (BUT: Buacalnd. Q. Yae. 3 4 Q. ItD we the owar of that houaej do you xacBll7 4 S A. I beli«« it wa an aldorly ootbl*- S BY Hi. Smtl: 3 A. t don't taDw their e nm io». 7 0- But you aearAad — you alao dstalnad a aaiiii li 6 Q. Did you Inow ayehlng tteut nr. Aettn at Che tlna Cha 7 aaatdi wmc wa oonAbtad? 6 ititliiBne fSthteiTaoe -- 8 A. 9 A. 9 Q. 10 Q. u A. the Yea. -- all of the itM wn aelied. ooexect? Y«e. itaaieay, Judge. lb. Or the etranacenea Ildar Miieh the beuae wa pvchaaed ty 10 the defendnt? u A. Ib. 12 Q. And bow did that adfaeaa eoia to yew KtMiai? 13 Q. 13 A. through wrwiUanoe. U at tiBC reatdmce, the 69th twiaae leaiifence, ocher tha> the 14 BurwUlanoe (tiyalcally by ^taaaU or by oths agmte of 14 defodanc? IS Q. IS the fBl? Mi. KMS: ^ectlen. 17 HE COJO: ^MlVUled. 18 HE HIHCBSi 16 A. By other agante. 16 17 hd for iggiiadimtely how long of a parled of tine wa chon aurwillance coxicted cn that i»rt tniiT raaidenae? 18 0. 19 A. Mi. H9CB: 23 24 gains fioB tfaK twowr: Cbjactioi. tfeBta^. taadlng. Buatalnad. BY Mi. SI91N: 25 Q. 30 Q. lb. In fact, than wen — then wa — atrite that. 21 naidnae you leow vhere this phocogc^ BT Hi. SIBTM; 18 0. Yea, 1 do. 10 Hr. HTTaggert. ic appaare to be a fanLly pboco. U Q. And we choc ocher ptocognpha of R. magnet chat vsa w. Atn^ct? HI. loes; Cblectien. Judge. u u IS M I dcn't )omw «te the oCInt U And ocher chan Che penoi you idvtciflad «s peawlbly Che 17 detendanc'e nocher, do you leow v4isc lelscioiSilp the defewJanc 17 A. I believe it . Anj dv Q. Locking ec the fuinlSilngi in Cha hauaa, doaa etdC 33 Chase eem inUvidjalB that are cn che veil in cha deSedeiC's 22 Q. 33 houae7 33 HI. 1066: adeccim, JU^. 24 A. 34 HE CCUO: Suacalnad. 25 Q. Ms. tbild you mv -- Sf Hi. PISPIN: 2 Q. (bw, acne of the ttecayapha aw hm daces cn ciMRu is chat osiecLT 4 A. yea. 5 Q. Roe yoc inveecigBCian. d» you hacpei to lanw hoe old « IS. Hi. K>B: 8 TIE CCURT: S TtE HITtESS: 1 TIC (aSTi 3 3 4 Hi. 5IEFTN; 2B. — ad 39. TwautT; Ovemilad. They' U be received. RbwemiBK Bddbtc Kntare 27, 28. and 39 vm 5 aackid and received in evideroe] ■ 6 BY Hi. SIBPat: ia^ 7 _______ ___ ft09 1 3 you bellem it voa cakm in Hm YWk? 25 a^in. ircve Chan one plcQaeT t^Mm . mbs taken? Jiilge, cbdacclcn. ic'a IxielevnC. MCXUltd. Ytt. 7 Q. 9 plccure, disc vas che dace Chat phoco^rHiii'd* cskan? 10 A. 10 BY Hi. SSPIN; By Che way. in Oiveniienc'a adilbCC Huber 38. ec lease 8 eoeordiig co che camsa chac -- using Che — taking cha October 2lsc, 2000. u 0. u 0. And ase» chac dqiicc. ^pesr co deprtcc cha defadaX'a u A. I Chink ha'a auaeot or awauai. 12 lliii ata in che teckyaid? 13 0. 13 A. Ym. 14 Q. And you cai sea diac Cha painc •• oondicien at Cha ficik of Appramotely how old? Sowing you tSiac'a btaa iiSied aa OcAeuuHC'a ftJilhlcs 37. 14 38, and 29. IS In cha defendant's car? IS A. Yea. 0. And do chose ptocograiphs also dsucc che dafaileA with the parson dssorihed aa iciaggert? IS A. IS 17 18 IS A. 30 21 33 Hae Chase phocoa also fond in cha padc of {Socoa YSS. Hi. STEFIN: Your Ibor, ac chis cine, ve voold now inco aiiddmoe toermmc'a Bdilfalca 27, 3S, ed 39. Hi. H3HS: Sane ob]aceiai aa parevloualy nocad ad 17 18 che oar is in ctat phcco cn Ccccber at 2000? yea. Q. And daes ic ^pear ficm ctdC photo that cha dafdtBpc ad Epear co drees io aimlsr clothing? 19 Hi. (OES: ctoleccicn, 30 TIE axsT: guacalnad. 21 Hi. SISIN: 33 HE ecus': Wy 1 publidt theae, YOur Hm»7 You nay. sir. 33 imlavnc, Your ttzcr. 23 BY Hi. simii: 34 TW aXKT: 34 25 Hi. SmM: Q. Ibw, you vare adiad ryaarirna about how neny phecc^npha. And you never eat dMi and aowadoiE all che pedacs of 37 •• 28 -- 35 1 [tecs m how RNV Ctw 1 Q. And we have records fion the benk aosMXs belaying to the in «idi padac? 2 defadant? a IL } Q. At least as you UC here rl^ this oliute. « Mtlnated there were ataut avbe peh^ a tuAed ad tlfcy. HibC's comcc. s nv^fte mte « A. 7 0 Q. But )«u lies. Now cf those, wtMt percentage of then tore pieosee of the defwrteK hlneelf, annadnetely. give or tahal 3 A. 4 0. Yes. 6y the wy. oa of the eoceunca -- raai'c oe of the S aooeuKs ac Pirec unon raa the 6 and one raa the paramal accozit et the defadsAT 7 A. I'd hara to take a lock at It. 0 1st ne dew you OorarniBnc'e Bdiiblc lOS, Che Pirec Utioi Q. 9 Bade Koouw. 9 U Q. ttikft weuU mean that itsst of the pictures ware ef ocher cf Httelcb and CLuvaiy 10 If you lock at the firac page, Age 1 and Page 2, lock to see mtar deae nam chat acoomt la titled? U r—car other thln^7 U A. WKreiCh and Qnpav. U A. 12 Q. nth the signaceay, the persen wicb the si^iacuce axhoclcy 13 being Milbart KKeith? u Q. yes. NOW, you've heard the uetinciy ad gathared addace owsd, cceiect? 14 A. IS Q. A. yes. 16 oarattwant'a BOilJaic 104? Md you taatlflad ad you were adcad ^astlcns about M IS 16 the three pieces of prqper^ that Che deSadanc Yes. Atd Che eecBid acownt wea the peragal acosmt. 17 A. ‘DiBC's ccrrecc. 10 ttecher chse «aa any rniey feud oi the defetdanc's pssen. 16 Q. Ad these are cha aooouCe you testified pcevioualy hal a 19 and you testified there chaaa plaeaa of (ctpeicy? 0 a third locecicn? 9 A. 10 Q. I -- cr the ^aae doad you ame 22 33 reoards showing racelpc of penance ef scran hwChai ad fifty 23 aix thircy-cra. chai the profit built into this a^aclen rauld 24 dellwe a nonch. 24 be affcrsdnecely how nudi? 25 CO ycu reeell dather cr not the leuaiA also dsaed 25 Ae A ilCtAC 9MT A fUnm OdAiAKB. 1 C> 1 BY Ml. 5IEFIN; Vair RBCh'B noc ao bad. 2 Ifew, with n^acc to the jst^Kty. Che 1540 lUUiwL 2 Q. 3 69ch TttTBca. the houae that vae aearAed, wee there aleo — 3 4 again, aae there ales a padtet of cfaaiiBKa peRalnlng to ChaC 4 A. 5 Lac oe ahow you first ^lanmc'e Bddbit UO-A. Hculd you pleaee toll the jury tdac chat docuiBK la? It'a a request fer cepy ac cmacrlpc of cac Ccdb. S Q. It'a a -- ^ee it Epur to be an HE farm? Y*e. it ie. « A. ne. 6 A. 7 Q. Let ae tfew )«u idiec'e bean eacicad fer IdmCieaUen ae 7 Q. And It givee the feim nnter on the tpper left-bed ^dbc7 B OweuiialL'a BAlbiC 110 Oarpceite, ad aek you if you can a 9 Idartclfy thia? 9 Q. 10 A. A. 10 dec new? Yee. U Q. Md dare «ae no ccnpoeite feud or raeoiacad? u u u A. I belMMe frern tte tzwae. 12 Q. And 1 aarkBi Qjvernm'a Bdiitaic UO-A and 110-B u 14 oscain tat fgene. I puc than in fxcnc. 14 A. 15 •tac'e bean wailaad ae OTvemrane'e MUbdce UO-A od llO-B. 16 Are thaee a part cf the leuaih that voie aelzed in 1? 0- m I‘n dewing ycu the pedtec of dDcuience feud in the defadn'a zeeidanoe? 18 A. 19 4506. And It'e a eequeet, It'a a feem to the ns, a requett for t«. gnriN: Ycut nirr, at thia tim, we tculd offer Ibr a cepy cr a tranegipc ef cac feem. So it's — all rigb. And deae it indicate de the capeyer is mkiip the repeat for cat fcaaO vae, Wilbert MdOelth. 15 Q. And ttoea it give Hilhacc MNeich's adtreaa ot etde 16 rax farm? 17 IB YM. A. 0- And ia dec siged a- puiputt to la elged by MUbart 19 Harnith? 20 OMtnMnc'a BOUhiCs UO-A and UO-B into evldanee. 20 A. Y4e, on iuguet 30ch, 2000. 21 Sole cbjeccicn. 21 Q. And dnwing you Qmennent'e BdUblC UO-B. Oumuled. 22 Ht. tOS; 22 hb 23 24 aucT: it tall be received. KtotaiiiiBA Btfabit Huber* UO-A acd UO-B were ""'n ad received in evidode]. 3 It'S 05 Rxm BS21. a tax UtfecRBCUn auchcxlation feee. 24 Q. And a^in, tfces it give the nae and adtaeae of Che ie'jeetii~ 1 iti^rTrWi to B3ie of cheaa bank rcbberles, od in ocher Flcrida. 33147, ai^ad Wat B^eer* to be Hr. HdftelCh'e 2 inscaEoe there were ocher aganca that leE'i'i'ilel In your ai9aoae. 3 deni 4 A. 1 A. 2 23 A. 2$ 2S Met is this tCKSO Yw. Hubert nxrelth, 1540 Nxthweet 69th miaae, tOonl, 4 Nt. KW: agartiCTi, Wa* to aczlhe tbe laet 18 dec cemet? y*s. S COBTBnt. 5 Q. 6 6 bit. 7 peat tall be acridcat. 7 Che bank rettery sqad. afprcKUiecely how nav B BY Ht. giBPIN: B would you be resending to My on e weakly baels? 9 Q. DC auc: the cbOectlcn will be auecained. Ihe laec Ocee It purpoct to have hie oigMCur* en 1C7 9 A. And den ycu resend — tail, ]vac let ne bade ip a little ibiw. during the four od-a-half yeera that ycu were with retteriee Hsee to frw. 10 A. Yee. 10 g. U Q. im uder the eigature doee it have a typed naie? u 12 A. Yee, Hilbert Hdtreich. 12 A. ttaolutely. U g. Ad wee your particular cemuzy coiflnad to Browed 14 CDucy cz the szire Ssuchem Dlsuicc of nsicH? 13 14 Ml. BT^tN: Ybur Hnr, I would eCfar, at thlB tioe, OovetmocK'* BdilMt Oonpeoite UO? Jvd aoiBCiiTBs would acne of — would there be acre ch» cne rettery ui a particular day? IS He. W>S: SMB Cp)8Ctiai« id IS HE OUH; Oiarxuled. 16 ttive. 17 DOstamtam ccnpoeice Bdiihdc Huber no tee nedad 18 and received in evidence}. 19 20 It tdU be received. Ml. HiiiPiN: Aid 1 would aek pemlaalan to be aliened to pMlah llO-A and UO-B? 21 HE mU(T: 22 YOU no/ p*v11«b Mt. SiuiN: ny I hM a uuiauL, plaaae, feta 17 g. And If you lonw the newer to this gieetlcn, EFcacinetely 18 how nany bank rctterlaa are eemnictad in Broward and Dade 19 Cbmty anually, at least dirlng the tine period you were with 20 the bank rettery aqusd? 21 A. IVo tinted anuaUy. 22 g. And would Bcnebody Cron the fBl gmenlly leEtid to eacb 23 Manor? 23 of ehaae bank lobbenee? 24 BY Ml. BlSItt; 24 A. 25 0. All rt^. A^nc lads, now, you’ve caetified cbec you 25 g. YM. And there would alao be atate cr local lav afscanenc thK 1 Muld iwtxiid to theae xctbenea aa wall? 1 2 A. 2 g. 3 Q. And (Olid clan be inacane In tfilch the baric ititaery 3 to wdtneaaea. fa aMnpla? 4 4 A. Vaa. Imaatljitlgi would be headed by a etate agvxry or a local S peilioe agency aa c^pcaed to the CBI? S 6 A. 6 7 ONaa. 0 09 HD. it woa. It woa eoncuima.. Out «« had the lead in aeot Inatnce. a£cs 9/U for abotc MU. tUa «aa befcaa -- theae loUBerlea weza be£je 9Al. ii^7 Ck^'. it d^nda. I naan, rm to rotheriee there there have beei — you loiDw. you ahsw at the bade «1 thare'a cwncy wioeaaaa in the letty. 6 g. All rl^. And you mid bene the zeapmtailicy of tryii^ to ^paak to all of thaaa pacpie at char tine? 10 A. na. 11 An hsur. an h3ur and-a-half. 7 euacoere. tank «Rplayeea, callera. 9 10 A. And how nurii tine <±> you ^srl at the aim aoena talking YM. u g. And would you a^ that the intervieta ate ^lita ut-dqith at 12 A. 12 thK tim a t»w would you i.liaci'ltir' the incerviav {sooem? U 13 A. 14 Q. 0. So let'B atidc to befcn 9/U. Haw, hew wculd you fim-rthr beaed oi your e^erienee. and alao with lefetaaje to theae particular tirttarlaa that you wnc 14 16 you would get there? 16 17 A. 17 16 oa tizBC HBpjTdci'a. 19 eove. Qeneially, local lew sdezeamt would arrive pder to ua 20 22 thet are tbm. 1$ IS 21 It reelly dapstk oi, fbr inaeance, the iifitar of wdoaeeea cnoe the agtnte aculd anl'« at the mid be »<»i«yww4 1 wculd oey. da/, I'n going to interview tbe victin r.»iiwr and neyte thie witneaa hse. ivcther agent mid incicviae aoDCher laOMB. U if tbaare'a the victim teller and another lUjUB no <«UPUBUBLVr jMj iiAiAtui • little bit crere tim with your witnaee. It, you )9BW, like I imUmd earlier, if there's fifteen to twenty pecpla in the lri±y, met of theae cuacoiem 19 gneoUy have baai waiting there, and you 20 wok to gac taoalc InCocncia) as < jidcly M powUsiiLft. 21 g. All ri^. So ^pcoUnately — end a^in. woe thee 22 xobbarlaa -- amg thaaa el^ rtWwim. chat there were a 23 After the incerdewa were conclided, we'd eay, ricay, 23 Miter of othar people that were paaeibly in a eatagxy ef 24 lat'e get a cepy of the wdit daet, lot'a get a oepy of the 24 being a wlcnee, who of couree hme ncc beai ealled to taaclfy IDIC certlficace, the police rapect nditav, the vldaot6pe. 25 in thla mttar? 2S 90S 1 A. Me. 1 A. YW. 2 g. hod a^ln. would eoietB^ try to ^aafc to theae pecple at 2 g. Now, you were aaked quMticna afaoK whathar a not ^ 3 Che aoane? 3 aAMttad the hacs, the ritlit. I 9mas peiti^ the }adaec, I 4 A. Me. 4 don't recall, to a aim lab fa aay D6i analyola? S Q. Oculd you tell «» idHCher or not. again, e^Twrlnlly with 9 A. 6 YW. 6 CO thaaa, relatad to thaae bank nttelaa, idinthnr 7 theae intervioa acre in-depth incarview of pacple oi the 7 A. Oerracc. 6 aCBK? 6 g. At any point, woe thore any conaideratlon during the 9 A. Qmexally, no. 9 g. And you had teetified that you dii±i't do that? Inrntigwion a after the Itsie wore aaiaed at that particular g. M. in fact, again, me there othv aganca that did aeiy 10 U of theae incervieis, including Ittsviawlng of the wUneaeea U A. tb. u who teacified at thla trial? 12 Avd 13 A. 13 A. 14 g. Md ie it the obli^Kioi of aganta doing an interview that 14 19 they (teuld paripate a npert of thair Incaandaw ac Koa poloc IS 10 16 Me. In tioe? toaidma to aend thaaa icea fa euA caecing? g. la chat? I bolieve that aince they were seized frtm M. Kttelth'a raaldanea -MI. to»: Jir^. I cb)aet. 17 A. Yaa. 16 g. And turn Chet Intarviaw c^ert am to you? 17 HB axsa: 18 TIB MTQCSS: 19 A. 19 A 01^ tea fumlahed to ne, yea. omrulad. 20 nr. lOttetch llml in. 21 ravuidng aone cf than incerviaw z^sta, whether or not then 21 Incervien were in-Qu fouid « hair In tha hat that aaa wliad at 9 oaia back to tha dafandait, <4Mt wuld that aatabUah 4th 10 U A. It tculAi'c haw diangad it. 12 Q. Ma than U 9 Q. Now, you teatifiad on eeoaa-ekamlnatlon that in addition to 10 any Addnse that the bak xctbcr. In miy deck hia hair cr hla hat cr tock his hat off in the tak 14 cr did sqthing that indicats that a» ahould look Cor IS halca of tha wbber? 16 A. IO offljig tni iiiijtti€0 cm nvK Mpc cn. 17 Q. tb>, if the hat had basi AmjeJ oitaida tha bark or, for 18 CRaipls. tha lotbary <4an dy* Fade aBic tff, if the hat U endit card laoelpta? 12 A. YW. U Q. Aid ao -- ad you natlftad thK you aaland aone oadit 14 cwtli cm def€nd9ic? IS A. yea. 10 17 ijiaiiMart Cs oadit canB baa4 en hia inoaie or allajd 18 enpleyaant? 20 biM been helpful to try to saa if you could enalyM tha hat 19 A. W, 1 do not. 20 Q. Mhai you net with Me. Krrla tha flxat tine, that taa Mnk 21 further? 21 19th? 22 A. Sura, that'a *twc ua stMapted to do with tha Bark of 23 Jaarlea lebbtry ahen tha gun mm, nd the bag taa left and 22 A. YBa. 23 Q. Old da Izdinca dathar cr not it locked lite that tha 24 nocwaiad. 24 robber 2S Q. 3nd you did pimn that 911? 25 A. yea. da did. 19 had been left behind, nd^ — in that cUaBBCnce, it ad^ in the ifotegrapna locked like the deCardant? ^ 1 Q. And i^in, parhapa this ia luat aantica, but do you 1 thiou^ it oc MBS it -- did you, did you — let me retinae it. 2 laall the praeiae aecda that aha uaed at that Ubb? 2 Did you avar go bade to tha car alnca it laa in n gacidy to 3 A> 1 ballawe tha said that loota Ilia wilbst. 3 ntrlawa adSitianal itaia? 4 Mt. SlffOi: CBS noBBK. plasas, ifcir ibs. 4 A. YM. S HC aXRT; yes, sir. S Q. And thee nr ramirad in tha FBI pwktrg lot for a lubar 6 BY Mt. SBPZN: 7 Q. tt«n you do xeperta cr [s^aity Invantory, «hidi you aubidt 6 ot flEvem? 7 A. It'a atlU there. 8 bade to tha oouzt after 8 0. In cutalda vniirhpr oDdltlcia? aacutad a saardi Mirant, to 9 ^fwt level d pradaion do you gaapara thaaa Itsaa? 10 A. Cbviotaly, I try to be aa yraelaa tm peaaibla. But in na U ot tha inatanoea. for inataca, tha plccueea end the Jui.i«iiada 9 A. Yba. 10 hd. 31SIN: lhac'c all I haw oi ndizecc. 11 W aURT: Aything alaa, Mr. Hmb? 12 and the pepanok. than'a }uat — U AH. lOS; YM, plaaae. 13 13 rise <±» not allow for, you Imw, to ItMaa and notaa ^amanqi 14 coint ad luibB- all of thoaa dxrmnta, ao they will ba 14 BY W. H3WS: 15 indicacad aa irdacellaBcua dxuranta or p^ara. IS Q. M. Iberia cold you chat evai tho^ the a>d}ecc waa 16 0, So you noi't rake ay attaipt, for axartpla, if you aaira a 16 wearing a radc. he ^peand to ha 1 Q. M. RanMndea? 2 A. Twice. aonNOW aa ha^'li:g 3 0. And oi ttdi of chcee ooeeelena. fer awpla. you ahowed 4 koan a pwrOC6: 8 Q. Did you wrice nperu idan you ocxdbcced cheat ochar 9 interview -- let ne Cede i^i. itiac Interview wn you 10 A. Yea. 11 0- Okay. l«an Cha IncarvlaiB were net chatu^ aa W. Scefln 10 xafaxrlng eo aa noc being thoca.^7 13 taa had you point out, you wbx bode «d cxnljctad foUov-t^ 12 Q. Day. U 14 A. tt>. 13 A. Yae. 14 Q. day. So nelly, w'n caUaiQ about eoa coHBwy iIbc you 19 2^ inceivlew? 11 A. htaybe aore fzon Che eamafoe Bank robbery. le thee the only m you on chink of? 16 Und Mich 1C Cha ««y 1C wa? u n n Q. Old you crawl co HBw YCrk «dch reepeet to chla A. VWh, aonctlnaa Uac'a -- you'n facoad co do Chat. Ocher A. YW. 18 tinea, you iray have cure co do a foUow-i^. 18 inveacigacioi? 19 0. Mall, hon trany tinea did you neet with the witnaeaeB in 30 chla pwTii^iW eaaa befon chey cesclflad han, after che Ace 19 A. tt>. 20 Q. Tbdv, kben an the agates Wo you aay oanActad 31 ot Che inddsK «d before they got m che wicnaaa acand? 21 aumlllase ai che 69ch Tarraoe aUlieeai? 33 23 A. Theyn acill wbdng. no« of chaa an. (taw (iBiy tinea did you ireec wth tfr. narlaa? 23 A. Twice, n^taa. 33 0. Kicb the FBI? 24 0. d^. 1*. Ksna? 34 A. YW. 38 Q. In cla WanL field office? 2S A. TWO cr etna Clnea. 1 A. Aa far aa i loiew. yoa. 1 A. 3 2 0. BoieciBe befae April '6Ch? 3 A. lb. 4 Q. Uve you ever aaan Che defsxlaic oi a bleycla? 3 A. YM. 4 0. And did you cbeerve aycna ac Che houee ac Chet Cine? S A. lb. 6 0. ibve you aver aesi cha Afendanc oi ttsee bic^laa at me? S A. lb. 6 Q. And you ken Chen te ^saodiiBcely fifceai adzucea? 7 A. lb. 7 A. HrrrnlTirn e 8 0. day. And Chet's che oily cine ^ ken Cheta? 0. Ibw tmy cinee did you atay mrrriile che heuae on 69Ch I Chide it wa early JccU. flxee far Aya of April mybe.' 10 ndmeea, let'a aay? 9 A. YW. 10 Q. 1 aa)«d you a queecioi WouC che raocrA ot HdttaiCh and 11 A. Twice. U Onpary being Incrcdsed, and 1 thsu^ you cold ne they u u Q. i*» kea Chat? 13 karai'C, che bank nozda. A. Befoe he kea axiaaced and Che dv of Ida aoaac. 13 9 Tgvaoe fer nen chan C«i miiueea. cr nan clen flfcan Wn they. In face, inciodjced? IS A. jm oi aAasfjanc Clnaa afcewenk, after hta 4RWC. 14 A. YW. IS 0- day. Then'# luec aoawdiavidBiee. w 9X ocafwWon 16 Q. After hla arceac ha «Mn'C chse? 16 chac? 17 A. cercecc. 18 Q. Befon hla arreac, you — « not one of cha Clnaa you aaw 17 A. YW. 16 Q. dcay. Ibw, lec ne ahow you Qovemnaic'a Bdtibdc Njrber 19 him. YOU calMd about aeeuig him MaiiJi 20Ch ena Una delving 19 108. Ttay hal ahewd you 110-A and B befen. And Chen we a 30 in che Aowe. and then the dace of hla acxeac? 30 dKa on chat of A918C 30ch. 2000, oerraec? a 23 0. Day. So chla ocher d^r chic you'n ac 69Ch TBmee, 21 A. CliW'. Yea. 22 0. day. Thac'a che am Wca w Cha cloalng OI this a 33 3S 0- CUV- 34 A. YW. 2S Q. day. so If Che cleaing'a alnady taWn place, chwa 14 Q. Ctay. A. Yoa. 'khec'a che dace of tine? 34 A. It ««a Aortly befen t had che eeexdi wrm el^ad. neidnee, xl^K? T^mI* • MR 1 teOlA't bs mi/ need toe an/ vsrlflesUon fxan the Incenwl 1 Q. Aid that's it? 3 Dmmim Service about incoie, osncc, if the cloelog's dm? 2 A. 3 A. 3 Q. Chay. Aid you cfatalned indida of OMierebip of asdi of I dvi't torn i4ist tine the closing oaovred er ti«e YM. 4 those other fenre ««re eatt tp. 4 those itan* befcce you left, oorreet? S Q. Cka/. BA with reiyecL to )cu ad eoie of the nwfcete of 5 A. tb. 6 the }iBy, the gowemienc (taeai'c neeeeearlly get ecnething doM "t the em dsy that a lequest le nede, dsee it? 6 Q. S 8 0- Clay. Uke Mat? sgaiL, 9 A. I dan'C loo. cat anpaer that one. YOU cfcteined than later? 7 A. YM, one they were cunad Mr to me. 9 A. Va eettlaioK Maets, you lenw, 10 Q. Clay. mnt 69th nertaoi on ipni uth. 2001? IS A. Five or tai imiutee. Yes. U Q. YOU iMe Ml* to detsndne Mn thst MUit «as puiiJesul? 17 A. By -16 0. By Miau It VOS putdiasid? 19 Q. And (faring that tine you woe daing vtfat? 19 A. Cli, no, no. 30 A. I did a welk-ttveu^ of the house efter it had been 30 Q. to. By dsn it wee purdaaed? u Q. day. lew long did you epad Ineicfa the reeliSma ec 1S40 I thou^c you imair Mat type cf Luipay . 21 eecuzed. I cheerved the blade jadeet ad the plaid shirt 23 hanging in the cloeet, as well as all the othar a^aaive itaie 21 A. lb. 22 0. Ibci it S: Hank you. Dat'e all I have, JU^. 10 M COtRT; day. Hr. lawla, you an/ et^ . 2S hearing Ath te^eo. to thaae aabtoe. And so I would repeat a taAert IngUry — or CObart 1 • 2 He auv: 1 <1^. 2 M. HiBiM: Jui^, CMS wnilcl hM bssi ct» type ot 9 social chK Msuld hM been filsd pvaoul. 4 MS hM sm i'tis»ni'i7'i, but ms W te'C — mU. 3 4 bsw c sneieipseso aiv cyps oC 1W miT: Oo you sjtee with chK, N-. HaeasT Hi. IOCS: 1 agree. Juc^, chac ycu wculd be in a pasuioi CO epaoc a fade 29 if they dat'c gee Che evldsne in. S ci^scCloi Mich iwtwr to this cyps ct Ism, end 1 don't ttalidc S And I doi'C ooicede chac you tculd ncc ^sc che idle 29 if « It's zssliy stpxpriate cr fedr UiK we do this inqjiry. 6 7 B I will Bsy that the sufascantlal porcian ed the 93WnmC's case Is based oi this wlcneaa' tesclmiy, And I 9 ystpMS Chat the Oaurt csi aate chac Inyiliy aa the Hicnaai 10 they do gee -- 7 nc OXIC: in any ewenc -- g Hi. lOG: - it in. 9 TteOMil: 1 indaaseand. 10 CescUias clao,^ cha waHnaflgi cd cha gewuiias. od at ttaa Ht. 8IBF1H: And Che probloe being thee sv ochK U aenanc dan the gowesnmc aeeks to qjallfy hin as an opetc In u 13 13 pntzlal panondlip. Us field. U U CbviMly. If Che OMt is 93lng Co «Mclude Ms caaciiiuiy, chat chac iirsccy nudi nurlulm the cane sqaoy- 15 HB aucT; 16 itac'a ri^. Mt. SD7IM: S3 I d»'C ses idv we need to hm a cuLUp, we (bi'c haw oi oppoccmlcy Co -- as we Add in a 13 If cbe court were to rule agelnec ts paacilsl, if Che 14 defandanc had filed his nocioa, Chan Chat Add hew giivt us 15 am type of 16 han. aso^ to panoeed vdch crisl. ahereas an [cwlitod with no xerady 17 iss-wloaaa yaujeeding to ^ that, tecai,iae there's oily tic 17 15 ouccoias if MS d3 chat; oe is Che Oam's 93lsg to let hin 15 «d Nirto Tire say chac ic is your cbligecien as the gecekenar 19 In allowing this evidsne in Co nske chase decenmnsciOM. 19 ceacify ovw^' or Che Cburc's golip to ewlirip hln. 20 Hi. iOiES: 20 Md if the CBiAC ewrludes hlin. tfacher ic'a baton ha .Ailga, EBtet Mys that your -- cuere Ic ie a trial Cine deternineUai to be nede. 21 raariflaa s idiile he's teacifylnp, Cha naulc is faasioally cha 21 a parecrisl 22 MS. 23 I An't bellsvs, fniiri ippeel this In aqr event. 23 eviteclsy rultig. 23 HB OaKT: 34 m. 8110'IN: Mdcti wuld bs ChK ths auhacntlal micb Add bs7 34 25 pectioi cd cbe eddeoce that lii*s cMs dafwdanc to the alas recIoi, like a Rocicn to s^pnee. And Cbe 25 give It'e net ihe gwuiment. this is ai is Hacher or not this wimee een ni legadly eufficiac evldanee to pneanc to 97n 1 cha jury. 2 7>C aun: 9 Mot MS will te have to qualify the wlPaee to caacify based 7 14 IS 16 Ss. chink you can do that? tft. SISRH: MsU. I have Co lock ac lUiasx a^ln and aaa that cha -nc GCUa: I man, be can't ocaa In han and a^, 1 field, or vtiBC -HI. NibklN: AS ths OouTt ney have bean inlclslly the pnsance of che jury. I chink ic will allow ua co adc gueacions in a nechod 13 and ll■iJaL difteigit than i migc d3 ic In tm cd che Jury, 19 and gee into ama that 1 Cbn'C Chink cha jury needi to osson 14 iCsaU with. Aad I jcdC chink it would be helpful co us if we 15 could d3 chac. 16 hid a Aaam and baaed ipm chac -- After fucthar nview, che ruling oi cha chia wicnaas in Ms aciaitlfie caetnlgNS co ths Cburc qcslrts U cha idea. nc muCT: 9 U 13 on CMs natter and inclined to d3. m would aek chac wa be pezniccad co [sequallfy 10 12 if I siy. atcar furOnr nfleccioi 5 10 I dan' c inaw if chose an cha nagic tcc^, but that's Thee will be m, Wur Hxec. And CfaBi. if chars'a a voir dica. Cbm ha em qirlKX 17 Us wlr dire ad so CocCh. 15 93 wall bayerd that. 18 Hi. K>GS: 19 neaxKT: 19 20 HI. SISFm; 21 DBCCURr: 17 23 Ht. SI7IN: ito'n golnp to 93 baymd. ws'zs going co au ci^. Buc I ChljBl WS'n flM. cfov- 1 O'clock. M'U be in noeaa isKil Choi. OB COKT! 21 AG. KTOiAMi: 22 OB auiT: BamOwa: soss] 23 34 HB axKT: 34 25 Nr. acstln? pcellnCnary deceiminaciai, Jiadgs. 20 23 mo's 9iiag to ■mans cUs wiaan. seem Uka sy xepasc fer ycu co mke Chac H3W long is CMC going Co CaksT I tUiBc ws Can do it in twancy lAmcca. iwercy idtucas. Ody. Ndan Osk. Mould ycu tall the nanbacs of Che jtsy chac Cha COwc has co am caKinoiy aralcy ^ chair 25 {saaMoa ac cUa Um, ad tlac tUe is going to caks addle. 1 • They're free to leeM and oate bade to tha ]«sy rom 2 ac 2 o'clock, cr they can at^ in the jury xtom. 3 want to ka^ than in there trtleaa they hate to. 4 S 6 KS 1 don’t Md I'm tery accry, but thla juat cm ig, sd we didl't loow it waa ^ing to ooie tf> intil now. Hould you HE <3^: 8 HE ^07: 9 HE CJJia: 3 A. 4 m laboraccey, in a mit called the ipeclal phctcgnphic mlt, Yaa. S Hhsi I vaa hired by the FBI, I tea bco^ic Into the TVo yeara ago. that (ujipurait of the tnit ths I waa bcQU^ into tea ussfsiad to wdthtn and narged with anochar All rl^. 7 ifiit. much ia curvancly (ullsl the fonsic srtio, vittao and call your witneae, 8 laaga sialyeia tailt. Stefin. saqi. 9 Q. State your full 10 A. TnaM vosM wiMim. rnmimira 10 And in thcae ei^c yeara. are you i¥Bilrj -i1 to sy 2 particular lailc cr daparenent within tha m? 6 tell thee that. 7 1 Q. Pleaee be aeated, air. AU ri^. ttst ia your cdfidal title with the FBI? My official job daegipciai ia phctcgrqihic teehnologiat, 11 nm sd epell your laat nm. U but ny fitactlcnal title la sandner of qjaaclcned phocogrEdile 12 HE WIHESS: 13 wldnce. U 0. All riefr. 14 ^poaoBtely el^ yeara new? 13 14 He laat nm. vxder Bruagge. la two woeda. Plrat woed, VCcder, la galled V. aa in Vlctcr. O-R-D. aa in Cevld. B-R. 15 Secod word. Bruagge, ia apelled capital 8, aa in 16 bdST, R-U-E-C-G-e. 17 HE OOURT: U Hy nm la Ridard H. Vbntar Bruagga. 16 Clay. NT. Stefin, ycxi ray ingiize of thla wlBnaa. 19 »«. SIEFW: 15 A. Thank you. Ycur ttacr. 30 DDK 1 have best weddng in tda a&m field ter the laat ei^ ^aza, 17 Q. And you say that you've bast ^lig thla for sir. Ould you egilaln vftat the field of fccssic ptBCcgraphle 18 stalyela sicails? 19 A. The field of fomic photogr^diic analyeia iroolvea the 20 KlsKific and tednlcal analyaia of phcco^nphic evutace. 21 Bt Mt. 9IBFIN: 21 Theta are frvy basic types cf exanmatima that cne (xirtrta in 23 Q. IS. Vtaeder tauegge. by whom are you enplc^ed? 32 Chat field. 23 A. The Rderal en^i of Inveetigation. 23 24 0. And how Iciq hate you best with the FBI? 34 25 A. It will be ei^ jtsi'e neKt norh. 25 or The first type la luege sihancsicnt. basically iBfzoving cts vlalUlity of dacaila in a ptnccgr^ vidMCapa inage in ceder to laen noea about «dac the tOisjaa, 1 {tecc^rtc^ depicc6. Q. And v4iat ia your trainiig wd LaiAgiaiid which qualiflea 3 you In fcnnalc photo analyaia with reject to the uie^ The aeccnd c>f)e ot aoBinatiai Imolvna cha oaipartaen 3 cd eicher no {tetc^^ha. ebjaeca cr peqile rlwpifTart in oie stisicaim? And thsi WU gK to coipanaen analyaia in a Moend. 4 ptxjtcgn^n with SI ct^ect or pataa> «3fpirrs1 In anochar 5 ptecoEpDfh. er it oouid tnwoli* the cgipangcn c< the actual A. Hall, in ise, 1 bagan a 9«diace prQgrsn in geologiCBl 6 ptqsical Itsn of evlteca «dth « {toco?:^ that ne/ er ncy not adsxs. in v4iieh I wh saidning radar data of tha planat 7 d^ict that cbject. Vsua. S 9 la chtauung dinensioial infamatloi from phocosngha. And the 10 fourth type of ecankrstim la liiage mrlpilatlsi. datactloi. u Ha uatd oaiputar sisiueisit tadnlquea to inpcowe tha nw third type of aMaRlnaciai le phocogntmatry. «6dc3i aoVcr viaibility of the foturca on the planet, sd net juat cn VMS. But in ay oouraa wodc. 1 alao did digital iaage of 12 Q. All Tl^. With laapect to cheae fcur aceae. would It be shsieettstt of picoaea at the Earth, the aocn. Htra. ocher 13 fair to aay that in thla partlailar caee, we are toally plsBCa. bMieally to sciacc ncee inaga detail fian the. from 14 ;slimrlly focuaed oi Imge anhancsmt sxl coipariaai analyaia? the pieturea. 15 A. That la eenect. 16 Q. Mlth respect to that fim ai», liiage sIibilsism.. t*ac ia chni^ 1990. I wee baaically •• I would do imge sfismarK 17 the aclsca cr tadiology that'a btfUnd inege sihsieam? alfiDBt oi a (tally baaia. Eurlig the couree of ay grsksca pcogrsn fiuii 1985 18 A. Hill, baaically, ainee photoepraphy >sa anacad, Fttm 1990 to ■ - 19 {tsCcgr^iiBCB hawe best acrking cn Miya to inpros the clarity Q. And that waa dirihg ^ur ^Miaca ^ara? 20 c< deealla in their plceucee or adjuat the vlaitaiUcy of A. That wee dirlng ny gcadsce yeara. 21 faatwaa in pieturea through mage sihsioansit tadmgsa. 0. ttsre — by the isy. there did you get your 9»taBte dagiaa 22 Over the laat twsry yeacB the largMt ^mcb in thK sd in tdM field? 23 area taa actually test in digital ioage n'laataalng, in «6iidi A. 34 digital ineglng tadnlquM are ty nodellng it? 34 35 A. IWang the article d evidanoe and, using a canre In the 25 analysis beeli*e the rei? chroqlBut the ucrld thac engage In fnnsle photo 1 A. YW. there are. 1 phctu L^y as well? 3 Q. 3 A. Hall, flucaide of the ccgoilzatiaia dac I oanciOMd. I'm •• cMi you 9IW cMjje •vplM of Ch>K9 so 3 fevaalc itaco lata eec ip? 3 not isnadlacaly mcs of dxn. 4 A. ne. The Uilted Stacee Any Ololnal InveKlgaclai 4 Q. And Miy would chat be. If you lesw the aneier? S 5 A. Ttee'e not thac nudi of a cell Ccr this type of analysis. in net GUan lihonecic). (kogia; the MaoeialB 6 State enne lab in Wecott, tdeoMln. < ►wwwwMi utie cype of eviifecce dMD'C eypiesUy ooae in to aoec ** 7 Iw mituuaimt agendes, at least not (cr this cype of Tww^i ea>^N*»> im f^ • 4i*>^ B this type ef etaRlnaclai. Other plasM -- these typee of 9 exanlnatlaB hew tsei dxe by others in San Diep. 10 u There are -0. H3W about in the world. q.galda tha Uiltad Stacee? 8 analysis. 9 Q. «w, you tatiflMl ctac you've bean Involved in thousanda 10 of -- theuanhi of titres you've besi Unolvod in sdancing u ptscogr^hlc eNddnoe to ddng out the types of details Chat 13 A. YSB. Tha ncherlade Reeneic instloxa in Anteiden — 12 you were calking abcut. U I'm asxy. It's not in Aretecdam, buc it's in the Natherlads U 14 •• lee Indlvldala «bo ccnict these typee of oenperiacne. 14 phcco^^dic analysla fer mipailsai purposM to necdi the IS The iprenelc Sdnee sarvioe In the Uilted Klngdan has tti how my occasions have you besi UMolvmd In amal 15 chjaeta in a phocegr^ with other ctgacca, {f^eloal ebjeeta 18 lidividLals Ms ojrigt eheee types of oaipariaois. The 16 Chet nsy have best pnaoced to you? 17 QaenelTl State tOUce in Australia, t beliey* la the rl^ 17 A. ThcusMda of tinea. 18 a^tlaeuon, hee indlvidiale Ms oandat eheee types of 18 Q. Atd have you best uMiifiwH aa «) epecc in famaic 19 oonparlecna. 19 yimmcMfy on dO a-ju-M iwirt fariml mirm? 31 --ws think In caane of flngerislRte. And pctfeebly Mcy 31 A. Yea, ; have. 32 police d^muinit has pecple that are -- that can do 32 Q. And appetadnscely how imt/ tines have you caacifiad in 23 23 alttar acaca or fedsral eeurt as an epait in fcamsie 34 fliignprljic oarpaarlBcns. Are there clat iteny -- are there elmllarly eltxaiKd 35 iBtlee In wrlcue ecacee of o^ilaaclm that do the fiaranele fomslc (hocegr^fv analyeaa ter oaqaeiKs in 24 ptsco^iphlc aalyeis? 35 A. Over cto dgsen ciaes. t/vWg Btei/ttttla 1 Q« jnd did at least ns of these tinss liT«lve the eccusl 1 pacifically go in and reviev every single st^ of the 2 ocnpariaxi oi phccagi^ta with Isowi ^ecta and to wiier an 3 idniflcBtioi pateuee and signs cCf cn aenflndng the i eptiiion as to Jwcher cr not the objects dtpifTsrt in the 3 Idenciflcecioi. 4 4 0. And MS that pear review eip)lcyed in this peiTloilar eass oeze. In fact, the ssie cbjscts as di^ilsyed to you? 5 A. Oi about half o( the tines that I've testified has* 5 6 imalved cases in idud) I have ccnicced ojipaziaai cial^ee 6 A. yes, it MS. 7 either of <±jects or of peqple car In aare esses bath. 7 0. S Q. (bw, Che results chat you have, that you're able to arrive B ths eviitaoe and All the sidilbics that were pauaibud to 9 at OI occasiaa, o> all occeela» that you xeaeh an qyinlcn as 10 to Che ujujsrlson, the le«l of caiperlacn becvesi «i cb}ecC U srl a [bcccgreFb, are these eetqperlaons si±ijecc to review byr — v&th reepact to all the finding that ^ node with all In 9 all tfaaae ei^ bMk rctberlas? 10 A. yes. 11 Q. M again, in adlitiai to the fact that you hm in-house others in the scientific comuiity, vaclflcally with xe^acc U peer review, would your findings be sibijecc to -- swilabia for 13 to fuiaiBlc ibocQsraphy, to either confirm or refute your 13 verlflcaciai, Bibjact to verlficacicn by ochen in the 14 findings? 14 scientific oorinrilty outside the FBI who could review your u 15 A. yes, every oaninaeian that gses oi in the FBI labccatcry 15 prooesoas sd care to the aare ccnclueioe that you cane to? 16 in syr laiit nust 99 throu^ a peer review {sooeae. U A. 17 Q. and iculd you e^lain the report. 23 findings teaed oi the tadnigues that are gmmlly aspired In 24 34 aaking this mlyelaT In — in 4ile>) a poelcive idaitificKlan is nede, 25 A. 25 there Is a further review that gees en in vbldi ch^ 1 Q. Is ttere siy body of Indivldials cr groups that diBsgree or If they had ted Che asie training and tad^mnd. yee. 1 Asscclatlcn fer Idenciflcatiai. also knevn ae ths lAI, is 2 dellsige the aclMlflc validity of farwale photo oenparlaai? 3 Mccher 3 A. Hx chat I'tiiMre of. 3 te cptlcel BigUserlng, 4 4 IK ooKt: I oculd think of one. of these qr^iiaticns; the Inceznacional Baclecy These three ate the three prineiry forensic 5 Mi. SI7IH: Beaidea the DefOae lav^e' Maociacim. $ 6 nC COST: Ch. 6 dm thst have Udlvldiale who practice the field of ooiparlsai ay Mi. b'lUlN: B Q. pertepe I didn't -- i cbn't loow if I'd pbraae it — taix 7 salysae. 9 these indlvuials in the eelgiclfle oenniiicy thst would 9 Use deal in the am of fesanaic photo idntlfleatiai and 7 8 Q. And is there Ucerature. articles, adoxlflc pubUcaclrxa 10 disagree with your findtngs er dlipute -- 10 aralyees? 11 U A. Then have ban articles pdflirhed le^zding Connsle 12 u 14 Uke. fer oonple, poly^rMfe ae ai sBiple. There's D PLUumM.y a CLOy Q£ LCuIVIQjbIs U) CfK BClSILiklC UJUIULLLjf 13 Q. Md ipeclfUally as It pertains to ocnpsnsoi nslysas dons dlBsgiee vdth ths validity of polygr^bs. IS there any audi bedy that sdats with reapaet to 14 with phoccgiMbs of clothing and the actually itne of clothing IS disagreeing with foreiaic photo analysla? IS that have ben aelzsd tron a, say a sspact? u u A. NX tlac I'm auBie of. A. yea, I've vslttn articles oi that ityeelf. 17 Q. MLth reepact to your ovn pwerrmi quailflatlois, training 17 0. Msb — tar ample, dsc are the, deb are Che nsna of IB ad aperlace. in adfition to the tinea you've taetlfltd as oi U Chaae p,bill cm lens, if you Isiow tbe titles •• 19 aoperc wjmeee. do you belong to ai^ pcedewtaial tensic 19 A. An article that I -- Chx los pdillshed in the Assrlm 20 Mwpclatiaa cr oc^vusatlcra 21 21 Belanoea. bade in 1999, I pbliAed n article ntltled disojM Mil 23 A. Yes, I (k>. 23 C- Md tbac. vbac ceganisatiens would that be? 34 A. Tbe Meriean needery of Reensle Sdanoaa la an 25 ocganlzatlan of vBudi I «n a neRber; the Intsmscicnal - to t. . W4 «Vw4^—A- 33 FhocogrMiilc iikntlfleacinn cf Dnlm Oochlng traa Bnk Kttaef 23 Surveillanoe Film. 34 Q. And without getting into the isderlying article in audi 35 detail, dec «oa the faesia ipon dtidi you wne able to eika a 1 ftemlc idaiclCicatlm Mich le^ect Co choae blue j«BM •• 1 2 A. BMlcally, cheie faanma ^ijiui. chat? Ym. 10 CD idmfy ixii^je cr identifying feaCune in che ahicC thec 10 11 ««a aaiead fzon the che pattern of cha 7 NOW. fvw I gee a third Mde. it'a os In thirty tinea thouemd. 6 9 Now, in this panicular reee, teemae I mbs able to contact the tierufacoirer and gat m aatinece fron chan of the 10 naximm luitaer of duite, vhlA In this case wee el^kam u thouemd -- 12 BT Ht. SIBHI: U Q. Hat Here iiBiifaccured ly the van Haem Qaqxxmion? 14 A. Ha Hasm -- rl^. dun. IS 16 Q. c^. 16 17 A. Cnos I cm decerndne diere chat faacure centra. I cm aae 17 aanutaccured. I Mew that once I hel tiency-aeven cfacuaand — a U 15 Ora I res mie co decsmlna chac ei^aem thouemd MM che iMoiiun luber chm oould here poaeibly bem U oa in CMmcy-aeren cheuemd dmce. Chat the nrarlBr.ice argua 15 will, on Che other aide of a aeon. 19 for it being che sane dun. 30 30 dere it occure relatire to Che, co Chat aaie feature, if you Md there's a one in chixty-flve dimee chat chat And, therefore, I cculd oololude, baaed oi these 21 faaam -- if you were caldng a •• slnplifying aaejipciai that 21 23 you're dialing ]uat with a strait ei^, chare'a a os in 23 Q. Ctuny-five ehanoe chat chat feature will ali^i. 33 ooiparlait in che etun — finding ctBie anas of onparlaon? 23 34 25 Brery seeB hae a os in thirty-five dwnoa of haadng Chet faecuce aliged. Md as dn you here two of theae mmm. acaclstlei. chac it is, in fact, Cha am dUn. All rlgkb. Md chec's )uec taaically talcing cheee axeae of 34 A. U^. 25 0. Md. in fact, you nde fMttnga wteb n«ecc to oa cC che 1 fckSc zettelM ctae Ehm ««t« to *mb ct caipTtjat. 1 itecopraphic aemfaccunng planes at redak atd Mlaroid, 3 80 it valid be, tMlCBlly, tie sciaeifle -- tell, tie nch 3 3 «ould basically ba thiity-five to the sevnth ponv 3 nsiifaccuring -- mbU, cuccii^ pines in Alaban* «Aere cha 4 •SMRCially? 4 S K is oemcc. 6 0- Kr Chet to •• te no eiixcs — for the [nfaatalllcy cC no 7 eiiits being amifaccund to have all at thoee aeie IdBCifylog S vahsre Che cue out pieces are aetn e^ather so that I can see 7 I've alao beoi to aochs plsk. Queae plmt in • feabBee? 8 rHiifrwnVv «tae ddzts HBe alsD Bufaccured. and iA this ilMUntta I VlAlUd pBCCamed flecerial is cut out, as well as netufacturlng planes 6 te nynlf how the pa'ixusa cakes place. 9 A. tte. 10 0. Ml«« figjrid thee out and it's a exaxy ruitar at no 10 OusM facccry as they do at the Anew diizc facccrlea in 9 fonl chat they vae the am iiBufaccucing pcooeesee at the 11 tuxbed and alnEy-fl'e taillicn or eateching? U Alafcom ad oucaide of Aclanca, Oeergia. 13 A. Acoally, I balleve that ue «ere — there Mara aie^ — in 13 Q. All rlpK. 13 oe caee, there were ei^ different oie in thirty denoee •• 13 as an aapert Hicneae in caeaB, have you alao ■ ■ do you also 14 oe in thirty-five dancee. IS But thirty to Che ei^Kb is coe -- is basioally six 14 In addltioi to writing articles and appearing u leccise in this field to other law anferomne agsdes « IS othK aelmtiflc grape? 18 A. tte. I ±>. 17 Q. 17 Q. And how mny tiires tave you given leccurae in this area? 19 {xcoess, Chtou^ ycur — how did )ou — 11 A. ccipile dxan. 19 Q. And chat would be chrou^mc the Uiicad Scacee? 30 30 A. na. tivdred fifty-six trtUicn. 1 faeliew. I Chink He'll atop at a hillidi, }\ec to tnke it slnple. U Etc hew imy actually, with reapeet to the dtlrc RNUtaccuring tbw ace you hnowled^eeble about how ahUts, audi as 31 Che vtan n,eaan diirt, are nnifaccured. that factor In to ^ur 31 0. 33 analyses? 22 A. I have crmlsd to bxh astaeiv for the mi and 33 A. Pert of Che training pnoeae chat we go Chcot^ ter this 23 jiiiiuiil -- given iiiaaiii ill n lai on this of aislyeis. yes. 34 positicn iRvolvae actually 9>ing to the mnufacturUg pianu. 34 0- M&ally, hew iiBiy mi pereorel are assi^ad to the 35 faccoriee ttee articlae of clothing mde. Me alao ^ to 35 fanaic photographic analyees aeccioi? Che Uiitad Scatae ae well? 1 A. Here are a total of five of us vto are currently 1 3 oonkjcting this t^ at imfc. 3 Q. so basically. d» you get involved in am of the big ceaea 3 BY Ht. K3S: 3 Q. Are ynu saying that every tine y«u testify, ycu or cna of 4 areuid the ooincry Cist -- if this type of verk is called la? 4 yw gilleajme caecify. chat the peresn's fond giilcy? 5 A. Yee. 6 Q. IB there any error rets chac'e aHsmarafl with the 5 A. 7 7 Idencificaclai of an Udiv'idial lee besi node, iC'e best ford 8 In ocher Heads, it's besi feud ChK your qilnias. 9 fer emple. have been pnen to be ndscakm die to we faulty 10 -- failc of acisioe cr the CednuBce? Vn HTBK BUMUHtf im 1 dldt'c aay chat. 6 Q. Hall, did you not jv«t aay chat ewy Um an 8 CO be accureca? 9 A. Bvsry cine si individual — yea, air. 10 0. 0^. So you've new besi wag? U A. Hell, the esem srxtr race doem'C reelly ^ply to this U A. Oi. no. U u u U field as a aeianoi. it «rt*'^** to the individal •minB'. Ow -- this ie -- 14 This field la coiperable to fingerprint aval^is ad Q. HD, you -- A. 1 dKki'c aay that. 14 Q. C3^. IS doe print avslyeis in chat, basically, the reliatiLlicy of the 15 A. 16 acaninaciai d^mls vpoi Che individual oaduccing the 16 ell Che cine, ttiac I aaid vse chat in no SKanpla that I an n 19 •oniraciian. 1 am not aimie. having said chat thou^ at mv sea I ndte nosttfeee all the cine. Iocs of paqpla neke miKakBa 17 aware of has an abject or paracii poeiCliAly idsiciflad bean U foud CO not be the edyect er peracn. 19 in diidi an cbjecc a a pgsvii les positively idKiflsd and 19 0. Nell, how wuld Kseene make that finding after ym'vs neda 31 otijea. 31 A. That wuld be -- have to coie above by amois coiPccing 33 Hi. 8I8FIN1 YOur Uncr. at this Clhe, I'm going to 33 tender the witness as an aDqpert in fceansic photo nlysis — 34 HB 03KTI YCu irey voir dire the wicnasa, Mr. Itswee. 25 23 the sane type of ssidnatlon and finding a ndataks in an 23 34 Q. lent, so in ochar verds. chete Mould hm CO be tuien 25 atxtr Involved? 1 At Diac'a cDRecc. 1 ibtcher ny cediu^jM were acoirate cr nx, and then a^eeing 2 Oe iuiiBag has a dlffarcnc eplnlen? 2 Aie te taUaiq in gmnl cr in ct» ^peelfle caaw that I 3 Q. with ny ocntluslcns. ) A. 4 MM 4 Q. 5 Q. s You Mse Calking about in ^pacific 6 A. YM. 7 ^ O 8 A. » Q. cmm. If they had not ^reed with ny oxclualona, the paper oould not have besi accepted ty Che journal. Nm of them cock the 7 & lb-tub. 8 Che cedginal haSc film. iba 1C — cur finding, bov csi » )Qu give me that anaMti^ 20 A. And hM not since been diallsged? 16 A. Thee is ocsncc. 17 Q. Bx no OB his cheAed the results of ^ur paper or the 16 results resdad in your pipier, uneix? 19 A. Because the peer revlex ptooaM chat ny actlela. Mhldi mbs YM. 15 Q. 20 N3, ths rMulCs tMched in ny 21 0. 22 pnoMB of ny laying out ny emOnacioi of the blue ]4M, in 22 23 23 A. ND. air. 24 Outsldi tha FBI? this caae, followd by a daanirtiiTi of ny odeIubIms. And the r»v»r nviaw (zoceaa te the RsmbIc JOumal Involved ocher e^iercs in cha field reading ctae arcicle, aaeing wore discked axing •• M A part of cha peer review procMa. 21 pibLlbad in the Journal of hnralc SdMcea, imalwd the 24 Ymm harl jvTwat So, in fMt. Wm you're saying is chK iig to neke an icMxifiestlak of s 31 Cfeey. Q. pwoi* ycu HMd nchv In clac eMpla Chet nechodoleay M m tb, there's peer snalysM gslng on at eriire labreaCrelM 25 A. Not of our week. do 1 Q. Md your pMr tM*r ceeuro atoQ th* flv» ot ycu 3 thia type cf caz«ct7 3 A. AC Ctae uuiHiL, y«i. 1 A. AC chs name. 2 Q. Okay. Itell, lining the tine of your evaliatioi of these 3 ICoiB «as it llmiced to four achetB? 4 Q. Ob/. S3 yoj’n coipariig aod revlauU^ with ch» ocher 4 A. He had a cobla nore e 5 aalyeee dc watt to agab cleee. they • fiw pecple In the giof)? A. lhac la occrecc. do «ere doing cheea eypee of Che lab to bactna 6 agaca. 1 Q. Ob/, as y«ur yat«9» ia lindcad to fiva pa^d«7 7 • A. Wcfaln cte labcncocy. 9 Cias 1 lae webang oi this oass Initially. 1 don't imarta: 9 0. Ibll, I nan, Michln cla MOrld Ic'a linAtad to cha fiva And oo -- chase cuo my hem sciu beai there et the 9 Hsclflcally if they vara there at the cine. 10 paepla; is cbac oewaec? 10 Q. So your pas gmb might have beat as large as sbtf u 11 A. Snan — ch, six. A. ib. meet. ^•9 asiaaaHHi. t asm* imaasn^im t* am ■ 13 •dchln ycur labccaecay, aw codec ay paar lavlaw of <4)ac u 14 you're doiiy? 15 A. Tte oily Cine chK clay uould have pear review teuld be en 14 another tno individials, am of dm has since cetlxed from the 1« aiVBHile Lila 1 gave you ef tbs Jou&al acciela. 16 also Bvailable at the ciite. 17 0. Ob/. But a jcunal article ctaee not adireos a pirtinilar U iC0 ol intaraac, «i icaii of clot hi ng. a iSBCegnph. vOauvar, 17 Bt Nt. (OCS: IS Q. Ms yoa ehacry bsan sdanrififitHy cescad oxslda of the 19 OKxacc? 19 FBI? 30 A. CCaiecc. 31 0- Dat's a cpaacicn of aciencific intellectual intarasc 30 A. actually •• there vos alsa aiether individjal — then vara 15 Bssai ax) aether individual ds has left the Bureau, dc wars In SO null as there are ocher lafacsacarisB oarAjctlng this 21 type of analysee ad ceecifylng to it, I would aey Chet 23 varaa a pise (landnacicn «d analyses? 22 indieecas chat, yms, it haa been eaatad otraldn ^ cha FBI 23 A. GOrxecC. 24 0- Ob/. Bo the paar geap to dm you mav is liMced to 23 25 four ocbets? 25 "wwia trying to nsfce gold ouC of ochs adstanoee, thee ctm 24 Q. Wuld you ay ^ „ 1 neceasacily a valid aciencific teat of the thaecy? . Middle Ages, dm chse vare asny . , ______ 1 this, as veil as a case of fliqecprlnc ooipsilson or foocwasr 2 A. If they «exa lalng the adociflc laoeese to accede to 3 or tire czadi etnparisai. am nvsc assess the signifieans et 3 oaovart lead to 9ald. fer mple. diich is tne ewnple of 3 every individual dmiaccsrlstlc. 4 aldvy — 4 5 0. 5 ^peeifie dmzacteriacio ray be yimater to tne dc has area 5 A. — m tley vena using cha sdencific pnotss, and they 7 fouxi ctBt they oaild not sucoessfully coMtC lead to gold. e elm that waild be a nooessful ag^Licaciai of the ecienclfic 9 prooMS. 10 Q. BuC «es -- has it been ceeced — tas your preoMS been u caeced? 13 A. Yes. 13 Q. Siopiy ty ocher psepla doing it is disc you’re saying? 14 A. ns. 15 Q. Ob/. itiaC'B the potential for ecrer in your, in your Dm sigtiftcance ney be the — the aigiiflOMee of a 6 aMperience than to smeaia dc is nev to chs field. 7 a Aid, therefore, than esn be dlffaransaa of cglnioi ragsding the slgiificanoa of pacific featuraa. 9 Q. Me has Che nose eaveriace in this field? 10 A. m this fielf 11 Q. yes. 13 A. Fhocogi^filc oDiparisens? U Q. yes. 14 A. The FBI laberacory. 15 Q. Itc tdehin cha FBI latamcsy? 1« 16 A. AC the utiiaic, ra. 17 A. Qk pococial for eaua in the naking of m idncifioaciaa 17 DC WOtTt There you go. U rases with the pacific individal eoRoner oendueclng the U Mi. BiaaN: Thata. 19 amninaclcR. 19 1?eCl»T; TSIcechac. 30 Q. 9s it's a adigactiva dKorndnaciai; is chsc oemec? 21 A. It can be sdQaeciva. based on acnecne's leodadga. 20 Mi. iOCS: axuld I eda ic to Che heart s to the 23 ersining ax) aqaclaxa, lac it be d>)accive. 23 Q. Ob/. But it is a abjective ifcxanlnacifln. oertaec? 34 A. Ihe eigUfltsnes -- idabifiCacicc is a vary igaeific 23 By Mi. iOGS: 23 Q. ttme BCaxlaxda sdsc for the aalncamoe of the tadwligms 25 process, ax) it isqjlna thee oa assess -- in a oiss IDa 35 A. itm atsndards egdac? I’ggalrg to adt thsc g—'Irw. 21 head? 34 tperacioi? 1 * I'm znt sure I uidsnund v«ur ^jMCicn. 1 g. And it zifcoaCed? 2 Q. ED )cu calilance )cur aqulptant? 3 A. Ssctly. 3 A. Itilch ecAiipnenc? 3 g, And Use' a Us nature and sctsit of your datarmlnatiui that 4 4 it MBS MorlUng properly? Ite «9Ji{nrx Chat U uaad — S A. Its uily thing 1 use Us opipueer for in this type of S Q. TDur ocnputer. C A. Tim oaiputw !• ealltacad tim it ccBea In froa tba 6 sisUnetlan is to help ire clearly see Us details Use I am 7 CKtoy. Us oLibntion of t)s ogipcw daes net afteet tts 7 Icdcizq ac. • » 8 g. Cksy. And you tb that by dsnging a video picuse inco a 4nly«M. 0. Axe tjxgjong atox thl* bos >Qur tavalcc^ of 9 digital stamane. oerreec? 10 esputtn? 10 A. Into a digital urage. U A. 11 Q. Into a digital Inage. And in the perrmnn of dalng that, u u I'm epeekiiig about Chl« fcoB ny locMlet^ Of t)s Mmlistian pcocees. 13 you hai^bs) oartain agpecta d Us pbscagcaFh, oonreet? Q. a^, Have >ou «mr had a coiputar cnA? 13 A. 1 nahe nora visible cstain a^srrs of Us (bocognph. 14 A. Wa, 1 have. IS Q. Oiay. itove )Du ewer had a mipxar izcgnm saM)7 14 g. Ml diniiniah others? 15 A. If fscasaary. yes. U A. Oh, yea. 16 g. ibaadby dsnging Us litage as it aDdstad in its noac 17 g. d^. itave you ever had a caipjt^ jKogr&B anth cn the 17 rseiml scata? U eaiputar that you uae to enhssa Us {fccoa In chia patTlnilar u A. It glvBB a miisia la li ii that la dlfteranc from Us 1» caae? 19 slginal liiaga. 30 A. tta. Use cpipuCar has sashed. 20 g. Chay. 21 Q. ckay. Afes it enUsd. >«a It meaead or raeartlflad to 21 A. H3Hav«r. Us ccnwta of Us original inaga hsv« noc 23 nate Bute that it «ea fincciming izoparly? 23 UsBsalvma ban d«ged. 33 A. 24 Q. By n'TT'iiig it bade on again? 23 Q. TM oenUKA 34 A. M>. 35 A. Ml aaeing that it 25 g. JUat Us ^paaiance cf tbao? I aav it with ny oiai eiea that It ms function pecparly. ae «fst t aigaCTad it to give oa. not oeai» II............................... .... 1 g. YOU wane b^c and tack out oihancsisits to bring in ocher 1 A. Yas. 3 g. Us oanumca of Us orlglrad Inage are aclU In Us 3 paita? 3 video? 3 A. itea (sra iragaa in this caae in tfiich I v^r^r^■in m nmrirhna a trlnr nr lui'iladna an Inecs Ui 15 anochar thing to it. u 15 ettt 17 8CEQ81« The (yjaatlm — Us prooesa Use I g» Uso^ is U macely us in Sdoh it ininves Us vlslUlicy of eartaln IB A. No. tb, no. no. HilC^Oe edaistanca are accaipced «d in this case? 3 4 A. 4 tmill Coae Rtansaeutlcels, Inc., dildi is at 113 BtEt*"* I'n aarry. Ha» often ia the - • S Q. Ibw tftsi la the paccem The tturt haa cosidBed the ceee of CSUbert y«(M 5 Qairt 378S; the later ceee, dudi is note apprepriate here, of in the necerlal? « TIE OXST; nepnduasd or rryeattrt? S Knbo, K-U-M-N.O, Tire ^ipaty. Limited veraje Oznlehnl, 7 »R. K>B: npaatad. 7 diidi is at 119 ftprm Oourc U£7; the atn remt can of 8 HE HTDESS: Ninecy maUmtsB, » 8 UUted ficacn wersn Oanln^atn, rfJeh la an Blaiwth CUoilt ttaea 9 can, at 194 r.3d 1186. and*e>half indee. 10 By m. >ocs: 10 u U Mml Alin of DddBEe adsKiflc, tadnieel, cr otlar 0- b«ry three anl-a-half indae? The Court finds that putauare to ibile 703 of the 13 A. yea, aiz. 13 Q. day. And do ytw inM vhether or not van liieaen haa a 13 VadaUnd loDwle^ will aaelsc the trier of fact to 14 prcprletaty Interest in thla particular pattern? 14 IS A. Acocrding to the pecple at ven Mjaaen that I apclte to, they IS do not CMi thac paccem. 17 Nt. fDB; Thwk )QU. 15 esvarlnoa, training, cr edicatlcn my taatlfy thereto In Che IB That's all 1 hawe. Mur Hjia. 19 HE OUIT: All rl^. 13 isrleiBtand the evidstoe cr to decemlne a feet in laaua. A wltnan gjallfled ae an eigpert by leicwlad^, ddll. IS farm at m cpinlon or otherwiae. 17 He Court finds chat the proffered cnciimy of thla u tdenan la biaid laoi suffidac faces cr dies; that hla 19 preffend teatlimy ia the prodgt of reliable prlndpln ad ai thla teetlflony not be admttad Into wldanoe wder ailee ?QB 21 and irachodi reliably to the facta of this can. 22 and 703. Based vton thla preaentetlcn hare, the gMznm hea 33 23 not net lea standard aider Oktex and tnier the rule to 33 testify wlch leapecc to a chescy or cednl^b dOdi can be «d 34 ■atlsfy the re^iliBnaits. and thla CBurt dmld eaclude this 34 hn besi tasted: thac his cescinmy has beat sibjecced to peer 2S teauacry into evidance. 35 cevtsw, and Chat the nsehetfaiegy hn been aubjaccad to peer The court ftsther flnda ctac Che kdcnen la about Co ...... ten 1 inwiaM and pWlcatlen,- and that further, the pntarf.lal rate of 1 3 anxr baeed ifcn the teatlnoiy at the wltneaa la euffidently 3 Ctat'B why «e had to keep y ie «qi bT Vmm TVmhfc *•••• The eeeerd wad, ttuegge, is spelled eaptcal B. n in U bate, R-U-B. double 0. B. W««*- 17 19 (tay mOKB Oe eeuOe^ . u BY Mt. SIBFIN: 19 Q. W. Ibrder Bruegge, nhac do you do fer a living, elr? 20 HE outTi Plaaae be aemd. 30 A. 18 HE CTUtT; CKsy. I wcaic at the Pedml Bureau ef HMati^clm in a tide 71 21 33 the trial, fton tine to tine It don baeaie neoeeaery Ccr the 23 Out to hear teetlnniy oi,Kalda of your ptnewa with redact 34 to oBCtm of In ad otler nntan that leyilze tnel^ecian 23 Q. Don Cfat hawe like a nldoaie so I cbt'C haue to l«sv 33 renting thK? 34 A. SWIA, 1 cn'C ballan ic'a not buccar. 25 by the Oast aloe, 3S Q. Omf. teu n about the fcrenaic audio ad vidn Inge ^hm vi/Wi *vl nalyMM iMtr 1 tfiklyM* uiit. Tall us otiK chat dSM, plMM. 1 A. 3 A. Da feraslc adio, vldao nd Inaga salyaea uiit eenalsca 2 Q. Wth cha FBI7 3 of tte«e parts, an audio analysis part, a video analyala part. 3 A. With the FBI, yea. 4 md mi iimge analysis part. 4 Q. And did you hew a i—'rv»‘i in inaga oialyMa peler to S 5 working for the FBI? Tbs audio and chs vidw parts prlmrlly are « rurralMii fcr otaclng audio «d video avitece, as «all as QBviJCtliig 5 A. yea, I did. 7 Q. And dose chat imolw your greduata and paatgtaduata of vl^o nd ndioc^w. Ibe auUo geetp adao daea sons >cck In guahx • » wal^ea, as veil as wlee ootpariaai icek fron tint to else. u u I haw baen aaduccli^ forenaic iitage analyaea alnoa 1995. 1t» iaage snalyeea pm of the unit, et dildt I «n a pm. taalcally euninee evlteme, avldaice In tba fOois u of vldns, fUn. tiixuip^ilc nagatlisa, [liocc^^ftle prlncs 8 ■tidies od week -■ 9 A. YSa. it did. 10 Q. U -- career? Itv doi't you tall the aaibeni d cha jisy a little 12 Ut abow your back^nad wfiidi ycu m a Ceranaie 13 «1 dig!cal inagea. 14 Q. All ricfit. hid how long haw you been with Che fcrasic 13 ^scwiinBr, OBniiKT^ 14 A. I haw a Badelcor of Seienoe de^ne in oQlnaarlng txon 15 phoCup^9>ic aalyeea txile? 15 A. Mill, Che geo9 chac i an a pm of has bean nargad. The IS Brown Uiiveraity in Pxovldenoe. Bbcda laland, wAldi I recalwd 17 Umbs analyaee pm of RWIA has been a pm of chat uuc since U Msiary of 2000. 17 15 The iitege analyses teak chac I do. atd haw beai doing 30 slnoe 1995. wed Co be irtchln a 31 21 Bede tw years ago chey decided thee elnee eo irudi of 21 cur wodc Involwd video, they Dmadlately after gxadiacing fion chK fsegren, 1 IS oKered a yaugnai in geolcgial adaioea at kaw Uiiweralty. 19 1 raoelvad a watars de^ee in 1967, followed by a Ri.O. In 30 1991. called the facial mlc. 22 16 in 1965. as well aae^ ue MCh the »V work In the field of gmlngiral aclocsa involwd 23 bealcally anelyxing radar ma. raefar pdcniree. if ^ wdll, of 33 the plantc iknua to try od (tetmans ica gealoglceJ hlamy. •*A 34 35 Q. So you hew beoi (faijg inoge Mlyeae Cb3U^ elnee 19957 3S llJd Bcuncain belts oi the mth. od l was oenducUng nalyaea k armm m Uwvb Hm nn^ain _____ 1 to eee the sindlaciclea and differences were becween 1 nnOrt get better plccurea of Vsas, aa well aa radar dtta that 3 enioaln belts oi Vetu sd nouteain bales on Chs Barth. 2 wa raoMted fron a S^dat epace craft that was in ortde 3 Q. So would your weak haw inwlwd ad cheae sCullea haw 3 arcud the planet Wna in the early eiefKiaa. 4 Imolwd Inege analyaea eaasxlally? 4 5 A. Ataolucely. S iwwiiwrt Mgellan (phntle) wot in ccbic amid wma. «d tiae 5 Q. Md where were these inagea coring troiO la this 7 phecegephlc evidence or -- 5 8 A. 8 Q. Old you ewr weak for ay U.S. epace agodlee or at behalf 9 It wea pictures, it wea effectlwly blade od iMta plccurea U tgicical career, a U.8. miaBiai -- I had a little bit of oi cggrtuilcy to review ecae of that 7 data od oialyn chac. It la photcgaphic eiOdaoB. Althou^ It wea ivlBr dKa. 10 that wre just csfcen idch rate wwe rather ttwi TOWBda Che «d d ny — thoi wews. 9 of a epace agency? 10 A. After 1 gx ey fh.D.. I wees to week as a omectix' for 11 tftSA helping clem dewlip epere crate mlaalaa, like the Mrs 13 13 Pathfinder od the lecsic near arth ascaroid mtevoue, which U the inagea to note clearly sea chs features that X ves lodclig 13 laded, actually laded a epax m ima6 aeea »4«Ma AlMliai 23 irage otalyeea wing the data fzae the Mgellot idwlaw the 34 Aarccefco (ptanetlc) ledsr Dish, chat t actually had a chanoe to 34 U.S. mlaaien that went to ikms in the lata elcfdlae. 3S go od take sme of this data ayeelf od {socaae It eo that we 2S And I wee awidal a three year grant, which atartad 1 th» ytar befoce I left chac jA Co go to Cte m. itMn t toot 1 of 3 to ths m. I isd CO tMlcally ceniSmte tht guii. «d «jw4b 2 A. waU, Che FBI sac ip a phoce^r^bic aecclcn In the 1930a 3 •1m pddted 3 Chac MBS healcaUy dMling with aiyching to do with the ok. 4 Q. All n^. So you cold uB chR ^ Mre hired oi to etaa 4 ptocc9c^ih0. S FBI In 1995, I beliew. And «4iac is acCusUy yojr — ck> you 5 • « hM ai cSfldsl jcb tide or deaarlfXiai? Mvlng a gcof) that gpeeifically vea imol'^ in analysing Inegery vaa •• tha FBI ftaned a unit, feanad a 7 A. MU. sy }ob cicl* is • £«dml gMzmnc }cu csi see utat was writtoi just by the 10 Q. •• and do you belong co any of these ceganlzatices? indencaclcn left in. u yes. 12 U coilet imge analyees mmnations. The UilCed Kln^n tee their fbcssic Sclsce 3 S emm aay a ^jaatimBd [AjoiiaA atalyaea. Ybu my Isbeaacery 2 I'm Sony I incemfiud i«u. That fccensic photcgtaiiny la pcaetioad in lantaarto of A. As far as fomaic ptotujiqiiic BBlyeeB «1 forensic 12 phocoy^^ty go. chs loading organUacioi for that ia cbe 13 Ineainatiaiel tasodetiai ftr idBXifieatlon, else Iobmi aa the U 14 lAI. IS also Inelula onire scene ptocograptiy. 19 u 16 is parallelad by the Isrgar Aracloai Acadoiy of Fbemsie tejmee. idiich ia tha largest termlc a^iisatloi in the erim labentoriaa aocas the Uiited States. That's basically taeneic imge analyaee, the type ^ «cii( that I nd The lAl atacced off as a tiiqerprlnc organimtai ted 17 the four oths pecple in ny lab do, is eerductad by oily a few 17 18 labs in the U.S. ind owisaus. 18 U.S. 19 20 Ocher mnples «>hez« this type of «odi is dm included the U.S. Any Qme Lab in (bn Qilaii, Qaapla; the 21 maconsln state aim in wseocc, Hiecersin ccnducta 19 tn ocher individale vto coxijct Uraga analyees emnUiecians 21 Chat are rfenbers of thaae gtops- 22 emnttnatiens llAe this: the Indiana State miica have a erine 22 23 Ub in idiich inega analyses eMerinaticns are mrtrrad. 23 24 mjwlae, chBS are individuals 9«neas in the 2S Wchsrlsnds dn «odc fer their federal Imi enteKeoanc formic I'm a irartier of both of thoas crganlaaticcs. and thsre 20 24 He fiequBicIy -- there ere areual mferences at aAileh iidll 9? as papers cn «ckk cabl we iw* cttw in uv field cC iaege aialyoas. 2$ Q. Are there, in fact, adacifie papers that haw beoi 1 islttdi oi this field of Sccanslc anslyMS «nd oaiparlsdi? 1 Advocacy center in South Carolina, sd I vaa invited dean thse 2 A. yes. there ere. 2 And hew you yourself tdccan and pAUdMd 3 I will CreqjBKly go to ochs cagsiiaaCicne. Cedsai 4 and acate a^tiacioa chat are Incsasted In these types of 3 Q. 4 cr arciclae oi this field? psrlnrtlcaTs last AuguBC co calk abcut imge irenipulacion. S A. yes. 1 tave. S •aninatiOB so chK they cai taow whet cypM of Chii9 cs> he 6 H3W many eiticla have you pdallAad? 6 Mall. I'w had three articles pdiliahed in fanl Journals 7 7 Q. A. 8 er fotml pcocesdiogi dxurents of conferences. 9 RUltipls abstracts. I'w also had me, ad also Co find out dtac they cai do to adanoe their in these areas. 8 9 Also, I'w bsai fcrtinace am^ in ny Ciire at Che FBI CO be invited to Qerrany co calk w a coifemse o£ CccobIc 10 KlaiCiscs oi photegrametry, vhich is Che semoe of obcalnlng you wite an abstract. vSiidi basically lifnnihwn vhet ^'re U neasurernite fzem Imges, as veil ae to J^si. «boe I visited going to talk about in the pve^- 12 the Jarease equlvalanc of the m labaracory and lectured cn 10 then ycu gu to these oenfezBioee and taaemt a p^er. U 12 13 pibliahed. 13 Imga analyeee eaie there. 14 Q. 14 Q. IS anelyais? IS that you've piMided in this field, «hac wse the nrtm s 16 A. yea, I have. 16 dec we the mjcr t^ic ctac you dieiiaeei in cheae papse? 17 TO that types of grovpe er eeganitsciaia? 17 A. I -- tioac of the lectures that i giw an at tha sciBicific 18 Jbtn HUey Qicyolcpedia of Ineging Sciences and Teditolcgy, 19 diich we aititled Imglng Sciewes and Tectislc^ in focaBlcs 20 Aaeoelatiai fer idareiflcaclon. 20 in aiBQiplogy. vhidi le bealcally an owrvlew cd loaging 21 21 0. 18 A. 19 22 23 24 And I've had daters of chose tbve you also lectured in this field of tawalc ;teto aaifsrencaa, euch aa the Anetlcan teadoiy or chi Intsrnaclcnal Ibmwr. fzoB cim to elm. I alid util lacOBe co of PKQMCUCCCtr for cttsplOa on 4pod£ics d ln9i aalyeea. There is Bi '• thse is a -- the eguveln of the roi 2S AoKtaiy for pneecuctsa in the Itaiced Scacee is the Mclcnal 22 Just Jinping faadt a little bdc. Mich negwr co pqeie Mall, just last fprlng l had a di^cs publldad in tha That inchded a large eectloi ou able to idacify and rrmytae all cf tteae 3 galley t^ dadc acd V3t aod lock te Choae un^ thee, in ay ) iidUMU? 3 cpinlai beat 4 A. I pl»ed BY imika oi the yldaot^ee tslna a nvikar In Che 1 will review all of the inagea using a prafeaalonal the chsraecerlstica of. in this caae. Che 4 ahtxt. S liberacocy v^xn ancaring chm into ay evidence Icdcv. 5 6 0. And Mhan you were aenc all o€ cheee eiOdbiCe, vliec «ee« ycu 6 Of the dilrt, Che Crent, cbe sidw, the elaaine, the bade. aa)ad — Wat type of aialyeee were you aeked to paiforai? t A. I wee aenc both the #ilrt, acvecmsic'e ii, aloig with 9 aevezel ocher itan of e/idsoe sd acne {teccgzqia o< an 10 Indlvi^jal. 11 And I was aded to (tececaine if I could IdKlty ay I'm Iccfciiq to get as iieny differait viewe as pnwihl'ft 7 Ode I have determined whidi plccuraa are of iroet incezeet to 8 na, 1 will use aoreching called a digitiser to Odnert Che 9 video plcturee into a digital Unga. U And Che zeaaai I put Cham into a digital inage la 11 Mvaael fold. First ctf all, by comeRing It into a digital 12 of Che arclclea amc eo n«. including chia dslrc. aa Che 12 inage. I can then uee digital uiege crnanaenerc cednusaa eo U aeuclee 13 artense the viaifedlicy of feacuree chat I'm locking at. tocn or carried fey Che baric rettar in the 14 vlifcoC^ica ad Che film inegee d^icced. 14 15 0. All El^. lee's calk abcuc -- let's stick to the shirt 15 dlffaranc w^. Qiie also, by converting than to a digital 16 fs* now, tidch is OovamiwK's Bddbit 11. And lac na gee 16 lin^ n) putting than into a ooipucar. he^ lee pseaera the 17 Chaae out of your way hare. U Ould you cDfdain to the iiaiUeie of the Jury «eac 17 original videotape. U 19 a- tau.Buuee you engage in in oader to begin eo try to And I on do Chat onr ad oiar again in a variety of is cnee I've cakBi these digital inegee off of Che 30 Rola ai idaxiflcacion or at least al is lodvd ip. Wot we call locked ip. ttat I'm not 1 c^les. And we doi'c wait to week off of the c^ae, baeaae 3 gscting rollijig or Chs: the, that Che inage lai'C jiccecy. 4 Just the nexe paoceas of naklng a video oqy cai nela •• can. 4 A s 6 That ian't the oae with a digital oegy, bKMt I'n Thai Che inage is fed Into the coipucer date the video picture la baaically eapcured aa a digital picture. Onee 6 I've gx It c^nired ae a digital picture. IC'a Juec Uls a 7 getting cbe beat pnaaihle cc^ off «hen I gat ay it>gltal aw- 7 jWgtyj ptecure »•*«• you mi^x doHilol frem a digiMl caeen 6 And chac ie find, I can lock at Chat digital aapy owr ad 8 «d use di your hene ccnpucsr. 9 over again and it will naar diaige. 9 1' U then cake chsae piccuces od do a variety ot 10 Q. All ri^. Itov, oD are you digititlng the entire video or 10 oihanoanenc etape viewing them cn the coipucer. And cnce I've 11 ainply inegee of different framae of the video that you're 11 got clw anhamd to tte potnc where I can sec the best qjalicy u 12 inegM, I'll rake prints of chac ualng a phocegraphlc (jialicy actxKClng fron the original and ndcing it into a hard eepy. 13 {Kintar. 13 for eeacple? 14 A. Mcually, I'm not -- the video is not eade -- It ia nada 14 Q. All rl0K. So faasicBlly. are the. are the ingee cn a IS 1^ of thirty Crane per second, afpeadeecely. But ac&ally. 15 oopuur screen coning Cm the video od ^'re. you're — u eedi Crane aameca cf two fields, and I'm digltiiiig 16 A. yas. 15 4*M46«*4Atac it ^n la it Inanaan the 11 I’w showed you the phccoi fron eadt then baede rettery aurveillence film? 12 viaitatUcy of very snail decalla. 12 A. U Q. U Q. And then are your, chan are ^ur phocopraphe chac ^ 14 ■am able to print for ua? 14 After yeu find mgn that you Ilia, you aaid you uculd then print out a hard copy of that Inage? IS A. 16 Q. yw. you did. Saiecun- U A. yrn. Yoj've had - - have you had the cnoetxnlcy to tevleH the U Q. let'a go bade CO the dlixe now. 17 IB 19 in eadi of the el^K barti xctteilen? YOu haw Che iaogn aaiOng el^ by can photographs chat haw bnn intxeducad n evldenoe 17 fian Che bnk surwillanoe (iceage^sha, fron Che videoa, and in this paTTlnilnr can with xeapact to the bnk xotAsy inegee 18 you Ime che ahirc in your poaaeaalai. 19 tec'a calk abouc che ahirc new. ttac is it abcuc the 20 A. Yee, I have. 20 Ratiifaccuring p---------of diizca chac iM^ic enable you Co 21 Q. Md (to. in fact, pirlnted out er dsMiloaded and chn 21 litarkify features of chat ahlrc chac oould be Chen oaipend 22 printed out chon pnrioilar uiagn idttch originated Czm the 22 with iaage nslyen? 23 cciginal bsik ictbezy aurwUlanoe videocavae? 23 A. MU, my. my odiparism analywa inwlwa a ain«laan 24 A. I did. 24 3nd again, you were princii^ out apacific piccum to 25 doiaecarlsclai ore then diaraeceriscics ^ n icon chat 25 0- 1 1 of. tine of aU. Ctae elm dneetmacica. iba den diizt. And so the ficse chlng ere nuec do vhn nddng a enable you to diffeceitiate it into dlffsvit gnafe cc 2 claeeee. 2 OBtfariaoi cf siy inage is an if Chsn clan dBraccerisclaa 3 3 If we were calking abeut pecple. 1 could aay Chet 4 Chare le a clan of S eleene of people that have barotei heir and blade hadr. 6 ted hair, nl thse are In a Milrt like thia, the elm Aaraccerletica that BOtd). 4 One ns has done that and fond chac chsa ia S •iffieicnt aiallaricin nd clan daracteristica Chat natde 6 cm can new on oo lock at the irrbvldial ufcntifylng 7 n're cadking about Inclide ejch thinge aa. don it Iwe a 7 doraeuarietics. 6 patcon. vhleh thle Mrt dsea. it hn e plaid patcam cc a 8 Q. dadted patcam, if you will. 9 your Inagn. 9 10 Nxe apeciftcally. you cn lock at Che dataila cf the 10 AU ri^. So dm --ao you cock this diizt. YCu haw Ycu lodod at the wrieus clan daraccaieclci. Che chii9 you'w juac daaerlbM. U pattecn and aea that there en tanad deadt linn and very Baarrow U A. Ul-tiit. u daadc liiaa, nd chn chse's am wry 11^ dark — linear 12 Q. Iba fact chac ic's Ing-slamd. the face chac it'a a 13 linn. And teeically, you on lock at Che dataila of the 13 pntem ddrt, the fact chac it has a vaiice coUer. Anl Mac, 14 pattern icaelf nd an vhac type of pattern it hn. 14 Mat. Mac vore your initial finding 15 16 ocher cypn of diaractarleeic»i clan diaiaLteriscics Chat thia ahicc has le that it's oollaied. it alao la a 15 A. 16 AU of the elm dianetarieclca cf this Mize natdwd Che elm dureeterlaUca of the ahirc wnm by the bank retber in 17 buttai-^nn ahlrt, it'e not a pull-mr, nd It'a a 17 than cam chat we oould aee the ahirc. 18 18 Q. 19 in aavn of then rttbsia,- la chac ccaiecc? 19 20 21 22 long-alaawd Milrt. Anccher clan chaiecterlecic of thia #iizc chat ftjrcher reduen the elan in «fiieh chla Mtc belo9 is thia ooUac Incerior bit. Ihle place hn ban een oi nd you dn't )wc ne ctae 23 piece of aatenal cn the cutaide, but you eRuelly an thia 24 2S li^ inalik dianctenecic. Then am the gnerel elm dnactetiacAea ef tUs 20 A. in fact, chare were ei^ tettaerln nd a Mlit ia vlalbla That is eetreec. 21 0. And chan che ei^th rettey chse's a blade. Ms speaie 22 CO ba a blade jadoc cf am cypa? 23 A. 24 Q. 25 YU. So having fond chs the dm charinTPrisirfi lacchad. ^ Chat ptocaad at to ac«p cwo s che nos acep of ^u: oialyela? 1 H. That'* cotrecC- 1 be tea as si in the laboratory using the ssie type of canerae 3 Q. Itow, Wki ^ do tt«M Cffaa ot analyaea ad >ou’n 3 and lighting as wore in the backs at this apecific tine. 3 gtwidtd taxiclea ot cloching aev 3 Q. 9o in ochar terda, la lidding, the c^ cf U^cing that ochar cases, dn )cu 4 fine do Che class dmaccsnscic atalyUs. if the class 4 sdacad in the bs4c ei^Ufiatc in ycur stalyeaa dm it oose 5 ctaiaxerlatia aie not the ssie, is there aiy need Etr ay 8 CO loekiip at a pdccuie thee appease to be dUtar chsi the 6 further aantfatlat? 6 dilrt in reel life or telv chsi the diizt in real Ufe7 7 A. ySi, Chare can be. 3rd accually, this case pawldw ai 7 A. yea, lidding m be olticsl. 8 tMtiple of how Che class ehareccsnsclcs nay appear co bs 8 Q. 8o you're saying in a lab ticuatlm yoi try to ApUcer* 9 dlffsraic but are nx, In fact, diffareia. 10 u 12 9 Che lining bICubcIoi that sdstad in Che balk? m eadi of these esses, we’re dealing with black ad dilte vidsD. He're me talking about color yideo, Md. in BIMI if wrm rallrinn aH^ir /r%lnr v^rtar* rtmtm 10 A. MU, try CO reexeace it. niplicwe isi’C alv^s possible. u M, we dan'C have as nueh apace in the Isboraccav as aoie bsk fnr la 13 colcr ditferaces becaae of Che nature of the video {zooeas. 13 Q. Mil, there were, you leiew, e nsber ot bsiks iniplved here 14 14 in Che SDuchem Dletrlct of FlnldB. Did you d» leaaiwiih or But because Che video is in black ad dilca, )«u'ee 15 not going to see Che oalcax ot this dUrc. die jcu're going to 16 see Chan as tfasy're miisiiilal in blade ad white. 15 take other steps to detecnOns disc Che lidding ooxiitlas were 17 17 sisveillspe oeeraa that ere set ip in the bank? ad chK is a) ^4aiak diffemce itai one ceBpsiee 16 cr Chat sdat in thsc bsik with respect to the types of U chla ahizt to the pictures fron the vldeot»WW exi»~ . 4A4 1 would '^1—^ to a lay pecsen? 1 oendiciera in the berk sd alao the type of esRece aqilpisd 2 A. Hell, if we have -- if ycu have llcfUng such as the 3 ouerhud li^Ks ctat we have has, da fluoresoenc ll^Ks, that 3 Chat tsa aperattng? 3 A. yea. 4 peedpas a very narrow mgs of 11^ that idt’C DeesMerlly 4 Q. isc'a — gc4ng bade (o Che Mize now. you talkari about the 5 picked ip very sucngly by a video csiere. 9 fact chK the diiit nscdisd the class daractsietiee of Che 6 6 Milt Chad ^paaced to bs drpicTod in the bsk sicveiUanae If ycu hsue aoiechlng Choi^ liJte dsyli^t:, Mill^ 7 seteandng In, the qiallcy of aenll^ is such chat it can 7 {ttco^r^be. 6 reflect differently off of, off of clothing er other iuns and • 9 can interact ^ch the video cassre in a diffosc toy. 9 you VI narrow it » pleoee of the diirc ac« cue out and then oain togeeber. 1 ply Co Che nwcc, day? 2 So chac If I were Icddng at tida dark line hart Chet 3 Q. All tl^. CBuld you -- «d I pccbably Incam^ud jcu 3 you can aee cn the acge of the, of chla collar here, If I were 4 abeut CO da it. But tould egjlain tht imfacCurlng ;ceoaM 4 to lock at Chat dark line oi the cep layer, thro etencaa are on S baaad cn, ^ )mw. ysur laicwladge aa to how rtilxca of thla 5 Che noc layer below it. I'm not going to see that dark Una. 6 nacuca i«uld be nade in a facsocy7 < 7 A. Ocay. A lac of pecpla Chink Chat avnyttilng'a dm by 7 8 cajutara time days. Cue U'a not the caae «d«i yoi calk abfi4~ 8 offaec a Uccie bit. » 9 Q. Hen you say you're not getng to see it, you're aaylng 10 clochifls aomCacDfflos. ic'a a lot leaa ai^MMiv* ter ocireniaa that are ctay? ted BO cn rod wo on doro below. Or if I do. it' 11 be 10 you're not ^ug eo see it directly -- 12 doing the aawing by land. U A. Uieccly roderneach. 12 Q. — prepeoxicnal nefK eoccly lining tp on layer after the U 13 ocher? 11 amfacciring tiling Lite blue jana or tidzta to hawa paepla It's a lot easier to train a peraon to aaw chlrga Lite 14 ahirta and jeara together chan it is co figure ojt hew a 1$ CBipucer coi it. IS lha mf this fa'weaa aucca la chac you atact cCf with 14 A. CCcxecC. IS Q. Ck^. Mid how dm -- U iag. ihe cloth is cbsi laid d»n at a cutting plant oi a 16 A. tt)W 17 Q. And haw would--go ahead. 18 A. cnee, onoe the fettle la laid out rod you've got five 19 cable that ney be aCnit a tuidred yaida Img. 19 badnd pdiee oi cep, the nenufaccurers lay out basically 20 20 cradig paper that has cutting patterns. 17 a liqa bolt of cloth that can be twtereda and tuxinda of )«idB NSW. these luge bolts will be icOled at on the cabla 21 and tim rolled bade oi itself iiicU the entire roll la , they te'e get Che eane tuifcer cf adera for In frot, how nstv ptoom, how tmy places of — dUcc? 7 Mil. nedlua, lazge. Mra laige and eca acre large every 7 A. tell, this 8 tlae. Evvy diCfosc ahlrc that they at will ptobdily hewa « 8 0. And time plaoea. they're all at or by basieelly a ted tiac' a all becaiae of the. the m/ the fadiioi 11 Indjscry wocte. They u 13 If you -- 9 pactam, ao there will be Lite tlujewile cf pieces fer the 9 differerc nirber. 10 doic. we can coit Uen. decide that this ahicc la not gilng to be aa ^pealing to a osrtadn gtov or another. And eo basically you have -- ^'11 have a diffemt 10 roller rod ticuearda of plaoea fer the sleeves rod ao ferth? u A. Every, every — If you have five tudred plies chidt, 12 you’ll have five hiadrad rollar pleoea in cne particular area. U Ibw, you rmy have piceea fer a oreU ri^ nrot to ro won U pattern fron vblA they're cutting out every tine time tidxcs 14 Iroga and ao on dovn. IS axe nade. U ted cnce you get all chcae pilecee cut out. they, they 15 17 17 groplnga vede bast to get the nost cute out of a aligla cut. It our eetlen Is 3 cut out. 'Ihe plies line ip cn every row. And ec you wdll have 4 viMR icu'ze huctenlng this, eo that nakee ei^. 4 pieces -- 5 5 « The )cte is actoUy the piece here that occm aezees the bedc of the nedc. You car see that there's a, there's a If, in Che tianufaccucing (xoceee, they happen to tale 6 a piece frern the Cep ad by to atitdi it to a pdaoa fron 7 place here a ixiyle inches below the nedc there you have a 7 Che next l^er daw), you're going Co gee a lot of randmsaa in S bleak in the pattern, there the botcon is different fron the 8 this process. 9 tep, that' e the yoke. And that — 9 there is this offset, you're not going to get 10 that an 1 vp to, tsi? 10 this pattern lining ip acres the seen in ary omistsc vqr U JlKXt: Mine. U fron os diirc to the nnc. 12 netaness: Nine. Hoik you. 12 The iMCk ie ten,- odi of the sleeves are acicxher cto 13 patterns aligv. And, in fact, you can't get a curved aeam like 13 In particular, no accorpc is nede to ireke chos 14 pleoes, that's twelve; you've actually got on this shirt the 14 this CO have s allgiiBiC acicu It, becue it isn't 15 cuffs, v^iidi RBtas fourteen. 16 And then acteded here to the cuff Itself aod here tn 15 17 this gap >tere the cuff epes there are nxher two piecea that 17 eee that they line vp. Just the fact -- and it's — ]usc Che IS are reinfardjQ str^. le 19 19 M eipsnsive to raiufarcure m it uculd be if this pocket ware So that tratee sixteen pieces, sixteen pieces of this 16 How, you lock at Che podtets oi this diirt and you'll tact that ore of theee podveca 11ns ip ireks this dUrt twice 20 sane pattern cloth oi this ^Urt. 20 cn the bisB. 21 By HI. SimN; 22 Q. All ri^X. And so viut signlflores does that ha;« in 21 23 teniB of detenOnlng vhscher cr not -- you Icow. Identifying 23 Che front penal. 24 the mlqjeneee of a particular shirt as Ln.i.eeJ to ai^ of the 24 25 other ehlrts chat are nanufactuzed ty the plant uslrg chat am 25 being Cake Che tine to ptyeically line this podeet vp viMn And Che reass fer ttat is that they haw to treke avoe 22 that chia pcdcec la cut cut in ckaccly the am orlencaUai s Naw, furthemore, they have to actually have a tizm Mrmttm- tmMB . Miwr/9MHn 1 they're eewiiq it and nnke sure that that lines ip aa they're 1 HE 021RI: SMp dcwi, air. 2 sewij^g it. 2 Ht. SIEFIN: 3 3 referring to in pertievriar? Putting this pocket — just putting this cne podeet oi 4 redses the speed at vhldt theee ehlrts can be produced by 4 5 fifty percott. 5 lins. It ctadilee the tine it tskea to irerufeecvse 6 6 thm. 7 Wereaa, a perecn noting a ahlrt with pockets oi the 8 btas cm gat cut two luidced in a dtv ** 9 Q. Pockets cn a bias, is that «4at you're aaying? 497 -- s he can show Che jury tSac hs'a HE wniBSS: There are a lot of dlffomc cyps of HI. snPIN: Miy dxi'c you stand a little bit in Che 7 midile here eo ■■ T}B HIHCSS: Here are a lot of. there are a lot of 8 9 different, there are a lot of dlffermc Cyps of lins Chat you 10 A. A pxket on the bias meens, ceana that the patem daam'C 10 can lock at cn this shirt. 11 allgi. 11 12 Q. So thee'a no effcat to line tp the pocket, in other vorda? 12 the vdiJeo, 1 coEsitzace cn -- there's beslcally two dark chide 13 A. 13 lins. There's this very dark SB here. In other diizta. m this case, there is an effort to line a,i- T'm — ho-wiiv rtf rhe Marie white nature of 14 14 m. STBFOI: (hn I fold cne of thse chii^ for you? 15 Q. Una 16 A. 15 HEMIH68S: l*y dai'c you hold that out. 16 m. 9IEPIM: Ck^. 17 HE HIHESS: The lieficlng iat't all that gxd. 18 cloth? In other voedi, llniiq ip the lines fron the bade to 18 If you lock here, ycu cs as there’a a wry dark line 17 Q. the psdcecs. Is there any effect to line ip any of the other pieoea cf 19 the Bleeves, or the yoke to the sleewa, cr the yde to Che 19 ChK I'm pointing to, rlt^ here, alovg the ei^ d this aean. 20 frcnc panels, or — 20 where the rl^ eleeve neeca the left sleeve. 21 A. Nd. No. And you can see ttsc fer youn»lf just by 21 22 oaiparing the wey the left sleeve dceai'c aligi vdeh the ^ke 22 vaye, 23 in the aaie voy that the rt^ aleese aligis with the 23 that's very narrow, dby? 24 24 M get -- if you us chat ctark line — 25 HI. SimH: Hs U^Klng'a not that great. 25 b« •• Ht. SIEPIH: My Che wltneea step dewn Cron Che Jury That's a very thick line. If you go over a little inchs, you'll es chat chere'a a dark blade line 1 2 ' UB MrUGSS: YOU CKi See Chet Chet ^ik line Is hen in tbs attdSe erf a scrip. And ctw, If loi 9 1 pstcam itself on this shirt? 2 A. Basically, che )ay hare is cbsc fcecatae va dcn'c see Cta 3 Chess «id-a-hBU inches, it's in ebs mdUs of emcber 3 4 scrip. 4 indlvldialiae this shirt relacive to da ochm abuts due S dirsaim. S Mould be RBufaccuied ac da saie tins. 6 6 Q, 7 Thsc's the rspsec pactem oi this shlic in U»C tu«. chers's a sscaid eblefc dsik line chac's sU^rfly lea ftak dm Che fuse o» ttaic I dawed you dec goes «C 0 9 10 see ic here oa cbe sleew mry «ell If lock ac Che (tek llnae here thee are baeding doan ebs ales',*. psccacnB Rstdiing aocas Chs sseis, ve can uss Cbst as a /•> ^>ls* individul dareccerlscics erf this particular ehUt? 2 A. I naasured Che lAdChe erf these feSures en this abut ao chac Adc, chac very chin dark line here, «hidi is comng 3 chec I could fipjre cut hor -- <4ac da celacienddp veuld be Che ri^K slee*. 4 baCMBai pieoae naecing m oa side ixich cbeae neetlng on chs S IC alsDsc aaccly raecs Che point «Asrs Cbe ydoe joins 6 the fiuA pnel. 7 that bbU You mold nn your finger vp chac blade Una, Uadi line ad nn ri^ inco that seas chac I «bb 0 Ltkeadae, if 6 0. ^ to accher aiss -- lac's lode ac And 1 dunk you said chec da peccem rapeecs taaaicsUy 7 euBy dsee «l-a-half Indes? 0 A. Co oarlior. 9 5 oehsr side. Y«s. BasiesUy. this, diia (talk line, if U line chac actually nips ebs oamsr. just, just cues da comer U 13 of chs tuccen bale en this side. 12 0. Tbs chide lint er tbs thin line? U A. Tia chin line. 13 And dac ie paralleled on the ocher eide, heraiap ic'e oa pieoe. day? S9 Chat's weeher indivldailrlng IS darsecerlstic fcr this shiit. 16 lAisc oa Rces emple. If ta lock at the ytke, vtare 14 And S3 if, using a -- Becb, eadi erf these, asdi of Chase feabures rapsscs every three and-a-hslf indae. It's jtac cbsc chs chin IS lira is ebs s«sll«sc fsacuie dm va can see vary easily. 16 Q. rrmaiirlnj cut da three and-a-half inches? 17 the ydie ireeCs Che bade, you'll see chac '•'v* goc these dark 17 IS lines, dark vertical lines cn da bade Chat dm' C line ip tdcb 18 A. these eli^rfly less dark lines en che ycke. 19 19 jeac rapaat 10 snd-e-half indae. da mllsr icaelf. You'll see chat da oollar has a very dark mb 9 gaing tros this Aek line to Che nsec etark line, IC's date 10 14 dcwi fxen the ind it actually, da tip of thla just gses beymd this 24 A. 1 A. uaibb 00 you Msre using che chin line as a point of refstenee in Bmxly. And recall that I said there's da cumd »iv4iir»M here trfare da sleM nests these ocher seaia. That 20 wuld coipllcsts ay type of rapaat aalysis. bsoaeae since 20 21 beesMS Cb^ don't need to. Ih^ hat* no intaisK in it. 21 it's nec a scrai^ lint duc'a going paipandiailar Co dat future, ic'a accually gsing co be longer. fs^ls — the pdilic disan'c dsiad cbsc of a ehlrc like this. 22 33 0. 23 24 Cypes of lining ip of da differarf — the diidi Unas cr Cbe 24 3S Chin Unas in cedv co fxBthB' idaalfy, you loiow, ebs 2S orf chac v«ry chin ekrk line naeddng vp. seedling ip or ab 22 All rl^. And did you take paacise tneaaucams of cheee 00 bastcally. If ve did have a aingle aeas that •* M«e crying co lacdi thia psccern Co me aoou iC. chs dunew 1 l^aac toudilng the blade Ilia oi eha oehar Blik, iculd be lnllll« 14 «m m/. IS Q. AU rl^. Mm. lec's say you vare — you have a ^xd 16 aa far aa che left alaeva ia eonoatnad with che 16 MO^ picture chat you caiinke three points of 14 A. ne. they wild. wild the 17 line cp be aiyMece — wild the line cp be tbe aae cr wild 17 idakiflmcim. 18 it be. a^in. mtan with vaapaet to tha rl^ sleese? U laC’s say you're able co idaklfy Che 19 A. Ttan'a going to be a am in thirty-five dunce that iC'a 19 paccem m che left -- m Ctu yoke co cha left sleeve and the 20 ^dng CO be the an cn the right lees« ae it is on che left 20 yoke CO the cl^k sleeve, but also chai you here Che bade chat 21 sleeve. 21 you're ati^ co idencify ae a third neaeure of Idakifimtlm. 22 0- AU rl^. So if you waee able CD find, ^ for Bstple. 22 A. mU. that would be }uac — che nekC acap is juac cUiq che 23 Cron cte ChO piiim oC i f^ 24 pbocogcaph aecohM the aMcc in one ana, aay tbe ycke to the 23 Cade CO che ycke. IB’re not talking abouc the bade co Cbe 25 elewie on che left aide, and than you’re Mle to find a accord 2S 24 sleeves, >wm that adda even acre. Sue if va had sleeve to ycke. ycke co tadc and ycke to 1 ilaaws, Chen that's thirty class thirty clciea thirty, wfildi is 1 that you »-—«»» the iDBC uiemi onplalnc is chac it's IDs eecner. Thac'e feature aw. 9 If we Choi Icok at Che Joint, Che point Wwn Che ycte 10 tins things you see in cbe gmoery scots iSwts they kaq> the 10 Jolna che fme penal, che rl^ CroK pnl, you en ms tdtac U ehidsns. JM l chink ycu’d lachsr lock ac Chan individually U ^4c ^iiwc -- fron clw yoke naked ays. 17 14 is incereecced by a dark line cai&ng tp fron che tiuic panel. 15 AC Che bccccn is at enlarganenc of Che inage fron cfaa 17 cn Che dark line chK ixi'iee tp fzon che li^ front panel. 19 idatclfiacioi ad ali^iiBka ct feacucas. IS nac'B DX3. 19 If we that lock further dawt at the cletK eleew, you 30 20 aee chac wy nerrow dark line that I iwe painting to be&as. U bak wlch a nnber ot arrow polnCing out poiika of In che nddlle at che boctoe le Che sen plccure cd 21 31 vtiwe spears to incsascc the eean vteis the yoke and the frue. 23 pealclen. 22 panel nec. YOu can also see chat occuza riefc here at Clw 23 Kw. lec's )usc BCetc ac che cep beta ac che ooUar. 23 diizt won by che bak rebbar in Kislak. 24 YOU can see che very fzon the aide. 19 30 31 charefore, we oould aee the sU^hbic -- 18 Q. 'Ihls la ai oihoKanenc at that. left noet inege in this picture. 19 A. •• of the yoke ac the lower, at the lower left. 0. 20 18 YOU can see that here at the left nst, at the, oi the Clc^. So. so we had three points of coiparim er Ihere'a an enlargcnent, sn enhanced view of the back of the bank rdtwr 31 ulch arrows pointing cut w acme of the paint* vhere the Idnlflcstloi -- 33 A. Actually -- 33 23 •• In the first. In the first iaage? 33 — tour. eacauM «e hate tha oollar. tha ^ka, tha tme 34 at the botPOB point out to places whse the yds aatchea ip Q. 34 A. Q. 3 A. And beeically, all of theee arrM -- md the arzoM 25 with t>» 35 pai^ nd tha aleeve, ek^ 1 allgmanc vea noted. 1 8c - I'll, I'll note chat the very, the very top arrow at tha piece. So Che lack plaoa la the eighth plaoa. First of all, let ne aak you to Identify eadi of theae 2 esdilUts. JUat cake a lode ac Che hade of eadi ene of these. 3 hade of this dilit. If I may, the numiiimil i Btfiltalt 11. 3 las-O -- let's 4 chse actually are gathers in the mldlle of this whse It's, 4 you. 5 it's, ic'a. It's dnehad i^. the aacerlel la actually •- 5 6 efase'e, there's a plmr 6 7 be effecUtely leaeated. 8 9 And d» •• oil that en Cold In nl If you lock cloeely, here you see that at the tep ef thla pleat, there are two, there are actually two dark Unas 10 Chat overly where the pleat la and It ipreadi out. U mechlng that’s zeeceatad in this view as well. 13 13 14 And adc you again, are these all darts that were 7 A. And that's So fzent Kislak we hai« el#X different pdnea of 8 chrou^ it — let ne just go throu^ it with las-D, m-F. 2-II and 2-1. YM. Osvarmnt'a Bddblt W-D, VBS-F. iS3-ll ad VB3-I ate all chart* that I pr^azed. 9 Ht. BIFFIN: U m. )OCS: 13 Ht. tfiaiM: chix^ dnee. 14 'Oe «r CO the daikeet thidc dark line. Ml4a^1*a y a4>i» rh* dVkllar mvm 10 inUeaUns again the ali^nBit cf feetuiee. 10 U U OKI aetiMlly aee dnn the ali9imt of these linear feacurcs M we noted in the cither icbbery, we have the ckdc Ri^ hen and hoe. vden the tdlte arms an, ^ u line o) the collar thet ie cloee to the edge of the oallar 13 an relative to the pieces oi the yoke and the fm pmel. u 13 towBde Che bade, and is farther auey from the oallsr then you I' U note that the apacing between these relatively 14 get to the tip, whidi ie iten cne. 14 cw light Unas, vhldi an -- interaeet ny chin, you csi aee 15 IS Chay'n apaoad nun closely tegecher chan is the nact OM, He have this diagzdl line that accade Cron the yoke 16 and ireete the fxoc paal here, rl^x ibM chia dadc linaw 16 b, this is. this is yiat further, this is yuet further 30 ydee ad the fm, ri^ tuiu. pawl, you can aee there the 20 21 dark linaa ad the very narrow dark line neets 21 VB3-II, Chia is a fUfli iiiB^ ad eo you'U notioe a lot od rl^ wich 19 lelteracing the collar netdi to the ochs fescun. tf we now lock at these — vhat is lahelel 2-II, 33 ChK point of idenuficaciai. 23 9«ln in this lae^. And chec'a actually the pieces od eUvar 33 33 chat aeke vp the coatlcuait perciclf cd this phocegnph. And BO we have, a^ln, the eane four peincs tbac we 24 weee loddng at in tha othar bait, the coller, the ^Ik, the 34 3S ri^C frent penel ad the rl^K eleeve. 25 locking at Che ri^ side, ad you can aee whse the rl^ If we lock at the left elde now, we have just been . - ,, , 3 the other iiregee, te can aleo aee where the left eleeve meeta 1 Bade rettery? 2 A. T«e. 3 the ri^ eleeve in thia caee nth tha left tiuu. paiel — 3 Q. tec's go to Che nae rettery, 4 esry, the left sleeve maece tha left frm pasl. 4 SeuChen Bank, let ne show you OMunaiL's Bdiibits 3-F. X S S and L. J^aln, wen these darts ptyaied hy ^ from the bank 1 fnxic patel neece the ric^t eleeve in thia iit^, ae te had in And yoi'U notice chat ri^ hare, the bacton arrow la it would be the First 6 polnclng to the offeec of a very dark Una eli^cly offaec feon 6 rettery aurveillance phcccgtqihB? 7 one of Che li^CK chide Unae. thldi oocure 8 bocton arrow here. 7 A. Yes. they wen. S Mt. SIZFDl: YOur HMT. St this tins. ahead and dew the naifeen of the Jury vtiac you toad 21 left-had nose side, is suited with chw thaee to Che incsset od tune, I'm Just 9>ing to sinpUfy cUa. 23 VB3-F doa Che left dmldar axes of the tank rettB-, ae vaU 34 ae the left ttouldv area cd the d&rc. in it you can eee where the left ttouldar tt Che left 1 y4(8 mats tha rl^ — or clM lafc flaavt, aa Hall aa itam 1 Q. Eb would chac be anocher — 3 Che El;^ eleeva rieecs Che left — Che left alaeva naeca the 2 A. That would be eevan, I believe. 3 left fruit panel. 3 Q. 93 che cdlB of this being ladtm «dch cw diliCs, thlr^ to 4 4 the aevwxh power? And Che aima hsa are alao pcdnclng to eha plaee 5 i8Ba the yde neets the left front panel. 8o aa have cine. 5 A. « 6 Q. Being csaeraciw? 7 A. yee. 8 Q. I'm dewing you phecoe ban the Me cf Aoerlce, Che elaM. the yte ad the left fzcxa: pnl. 7 Q. Three polnte of idmciflcecicn? t » A. yea. If we >ae che ehlrcy. 9 Aarca. Q. That racdl? I'm dewing you VB4-r, K ad H -- eh, eneuee aa. 4-P. 10 A. yea. The — 10 KadH. U Q. D)ia la another -13 A. VB, W3-K CrcD the Fliac Southern ank ahow the bade u 13 VQUJav azw of tie osne ikum' . Ho it §toi0 wtte tie 14 ■d the badi panel ireet the right aleeve. u US bWs OC UiiliBI yi 14 A. yea, Bdrlhlcs \M-F. 4-X and 4-M ware diaxta pB'M''** ^ IS Ad basically we have Che all^nent of a 11^ line 15 u ban Che bade wlch a tek Una on the slee(«. aa waU aa Che 16 13 Are choae, a^in -- these ace aU darts chec wse you tron che bade idXexy aurvelllanoe phocos ac Ml. yiU'lN! ycur ttnoc, w wuld RdA chose liKO 17 .njiiMK of ■ aith line on the yelw MCh « tek line on the 17 wldanoe ac this cine. 18 alaew. So we have aDChar o». o«. three pelnca of 16 Ml. KSCS: Sm chjectlai. 19 CQVpBTlBU) in this 19 HC aXKT: The acadieg objectioi dll be owrculad. 30 nnaUy. go bade to Che rl#K dsulder. Ad this 30 The adilblcs will be reoelved in evidaee. 31 juac iddB Che oollar to the nnbar chac we'wa aaaaaaad befcae. 31 33 In chac we 33 Bfkad ad reoelved In evidenoe]. see a relatively dark Une hen at Che mllar. 33 In about the endue cC the oollar. thee linen wlch the 33 (QovemiBX Bdilbic Hjihece IS4-F, VB4-K, VB4-M ware TW NTDCS8: Eddbic 4-F Is titled, on Che M ecxlpe chac oesrA ban the trcnc pml bade to dace the 34 left-had dda. quMClcntd dmt, Bak of Aiertee. HiwaadeL 3S ycha, ahace it aeets the ^ta. 35 34th. 3000, Inege ban 0-5 video. 3 BjUjai ad hie diizt. Ne can aee at the very c^ the errow la 1 vhace che eaan temlnecee. 3 0. Bo that's -- 3 polnclng to this dla^nal line that ojiaa dowi frotn the ycioe 3 A. Ttxc RBhes six. 4 end aaece the left Ima. panel, and the ocher arrow 9er chare 4 S lidlGBClng the augment of the thldter ad thirrar dark llnee. 5 che < 6 llnee omang fion the sleeve ceanuBClng ageinet tha cuff vtae 1 In this Inega «• can aae Che left ahouldar area of the Oi the ri^-had aide, we hSM the alignax of the Ad finally. In this VB4-H. we hove Che ri^ aoUsr, cuff and rl^ elaeve cf Che indlvldiel with the dadc 7 acripM froB the aleeve, the left front alam. with both tfae 7 Ctaaae relatively U^xer 1N! 13 0. toaltive points of cutperieen? U A. 10 0. Thee would be che cuff to che sleeve? 11 A. Qiff CO che aleeve. 13 Q. Of che ri^ cuff CO rl^ sleeve? 13 A. •• \«4-K - cuff to il^ sleeve. 14 SlfliUar pointa of mqarlatT). yea. 14 Q. TTMC'e seven pouxe of idancificeeian with reapecc to che 15 -- we have the rl^ ahouldir In <4iidi we can eee the IS Bank of Aierla dilxt? 16 rl^ ydea — or tfae 17 neacing fmx panel and the rl^ eleme with the ydee, aa well ae with the rtcfx front 16 A. y«a. 17 Q. Shewing you VBS-E. S-B. S-D ad 5-H. Mere Choae darca 18 panel, aa weU as dsie the rl^ fxox pawl naece the yoke, 16 19 dw)^ 19 of the Bak Udead rddaery? 30 Itore this feature •• n Q. Ad Che ydw is the ecrlp in che badu la tlac ooReec? pgqared by you betn Che taak tcUary aurveillaca {kocoa 30 A. YM. 5-B — VB5-E. VSB-B, VBS-O and VM-K are all cherts 21 chac I prepared. 23 Ml. SlEFlN: YQiir H3xr, le wailrt ane 5*B — VH-S, 22 A. yea, tfae yde Is the snip oi chs Cade. 33 So we've baaieally ggc asclar ctxee, che ^ka. che 24 rlghe front pawl ad che rlefx eleaw. Again. xeeelUng chac 33 5-B, S-D atd S-H Inco evddBKS. 25 Che right aleeve has chat very narrow Une chac naeCs ilghc 35 The addhlca will be received in evidane. 34 TtB OIRT: Tht Standing cbjacclen <011 be o«xvilal. 1 * iOoiiCDBnc Bdiiblt Mirtarv \K>8, \B6-B, W6-D, 1 Q. Ctay. 3 W5-K MK* malted and zeoel'>«d In evidne]. 2 A. Nw MS lock ac Che bade cf che hnk zobber in VBS-D. 3 3 Q. The bade ahoc of him? HE KTHESS; In this ott, WS-B, «e have Che left 4 ycta «d left sleew of the rr**mr d^>icc«d. In Chie cbm, 4 A. Beck ahoc, ym. liisre ue can aee che yoto ad cha hack S Hi'n noting chat the aliTmic of thBM very chide dark line* 5 panel of che ehirc. < 6 U ccralacm fion the left sleem to Che cn Che left, and And the point dtere che ytke cszndnaeaa agslnsc che 7 pcwldlng ue MCb o« poinca of idRlflcacioi. 7 heck is nszlad by basically a gap in Cha psctazn, dian mb hare • » 8 thcM DO sCzaqsr CR» 16 clcasly, chsre'B a pleat focually in Che left alesve «hsce it 16 17 aseca Che cuff in chis ares. i4iid) eauaaa Chase no dark lines 17 slifc. bade ahoulte of Che robber. And if you Lode closely ac 16 to QOW t09BtlCr Sll 18 Che dim at che boccan zigg, vhere I'm wearing ic, you oan OM TOthV* you 8O0 Hnally, with VB6-H, ue'ie lodOng at Cha 19 ban aailiBd by che blade arzoas on che far left-hand side. 19 aee that Chs Do » 20 wider apart th«t the Cmo dark lines at chs yds. Thasfue. that gives m amther point oC bade r lines accually TPear co be slightly 31 idveifiMCloi, a aemil ok oi this dilzc CO go along tdch the 21 33 left alasM and left yoke. 32 Wtece Ms're get cheae two wade lines. Do widely ipaced dark 33 W Wt. smt: 34 Q. Ckay. a» Chat's Wat, clew? 23 linw neecing ip with the acre closely paired dark linw at the 25 A. TChe, sleeve, cuff, chree. 3S Hus is reflected m the inege fian che bak rettery 34 ycke, asking thac five. I believe we had ~ yes, ic had the eleere, the 1 cl^ cuff, the zl^ ycte, the ytke oi the b«d( ad cha yoke 1 3 en che slawe, fiM. 2 VB7-H, in adjlelon to ahcurlig che left sleeve to the left ^ke. 3 Q, Five pcsici>a pednes cf airpariacn? 3 It «is» dew the left eleere to the left fxatt pdtel in dddi 4 A. 4 M'v* gx the alignent cf the left sleeve to the left tme S Q. Ck^. SDXROvac. shoidng you OMciMK'a BddMcs S pd»l. 6 W7-K, iE7-H. MB7-D, vn-J and \E7-t. tkn thsM all pnEaced 6 7 by you froa che baek SAuelllanca {hoeagcifha of che SoaUkuat • zcttaayi 7 IndivlikiBl in this oaw. Hs've got baairelly a single U0K 9 A. yea, they veze. 10 MR. 9I7IN; Ycur MncT, BC this tin. Me Mould offta; If we than go to the nett photo, the neic chart. 7-D dowB the left sleere and left cuff ef the 8 MtAi bwd •• dark •• -- dark, hg li^ band en the cuff 9 that is offset fron the dark lines cn the eleere, aa well w 10 che face ctdC the sleere is terminated just after cr» of thaw u choM into evidence. 11 relatlrely li^ bate thac Iccpe azord the dim here and 13 12 here. HE min'! The BCading cbjectio) «dll be overruled. 13 Md they Mill be reoei\ed in evldne. 13 14 U bwk the very narrow blade line the cuff here that's lOciaiLiiiuii Bdiifaic Mataere VB7-X, Wl-H. VBt-ti, Llkswlw, you cai actually aee in the Uisge from the IS VB7-J, \B7-i lore nsiksd sd zeoeivsd in Midanoe). 15 pesicionad iddgieal to ita pcsitiai in the gHstlaad insge. 16 16 BV Mb. 81899): n HE NIHCSS: \B7-K, taken fian che EaadllkuBC Bnk. Ne'ze locking at the left dsulder ct Cha individual in 17 0. All ngg. 8d that oelos it a third point of OBiparieol? 18 iTTIm che left doulder of Che Etlrc. 18 A. W hare, we hare the yde, the left frtnc pddl ad the 19 19 left cuff, thac'e fog. In chis case, Che atzcio are poincing Co Che alignmeet 20 ef the left elaew co che left ytM. Hi have chs — che naQer 21 dKk linM you can see are effase in chs net ny. 33 H» DO red arzon chat are aligHd idth che aean 20 23 juec ace there co point gg «4are che een is to chat you cu peepaze U all these odilblcs fzon the bade icttay airvelllanos phocoa of U the left sleeve ia m and then ths collar is cvo. 14 Uden Bank? IS A. YSb, I did. 14 hBeinV»-H. as M'rs still cn cw. nn we have the yote 16 16 Q. AU rl^. So chat nacdws ip- Ue ycke and the bade nscdi nec's ic fer aoucitmac. u 0. »ay. 13 A. nxt we hsM che left elaew to che yoke. It's again seen IS to the bade. >*iidi la cine. wt. srEFW: Ns vould offer ctase afutaics IKO 17 SVidBKS. 17 m? 19 aid Che)''11 be lacsivad. 18 A. The yoke ad the beck nacdi ip. 19 TOu can tee an offaec In che dark vertical linM 20 30 oaring ip fieem che beck with ths linker ’8ins CE siiw, yuu IS ^iisi^ujy s iiatv s baCMan tha 9»ina. 9 8 euvelllane phocogapha, do you have an qpinldi as to thecher S3 ii) this piccura. it's actually locking at tbs 9 or not they are cha am ahirc aa Bddhit 11, thldi is the 10 oiollar ijiage. YCur eye can not* cut note details, bnusa 10 gmaclomd ahlrt? •11 it's ccncenuated in a oiellar tem «d it'a not dUparaad ewer 11 A. OMCtnent'a BhibiC U, in ny epinien. la cha 13 a larger alee. 12 diirt «sn by the bmk rdher in each cne of thaea sw« tank 13 0. 3o Uoc kould be five points of Idntlflcocim te tha 13 itthertea. 14 Uiloi Bait [SnCagcriiiB? IS A. yea. 15 duxe. You were ptcvidad da qpxtinicy CO MRilM a blade 16 Q. And at ttet point or la thare a point that you'ra able to 16 jmhac? n 17 A. yea. U Q. I'm dewing you Oovouiiat'e Bhihit 13. Are you able to 14 Q. MOW. wa had an al^Kh tank rothery iSildi didi'c Irmlv* cha ooiclude that all of the photogrqta in all the different bank u n.U,»t las are depicting the aano ehtztT 19 A. ttell, for no in this ceae, it oily cock three psinta. 30 Mith a» to the thtxtlaeh donee in Mcy tlH — that 19 icMhify this PdliUt? 20 A. vea, 1 an. 21 cnee -- that hndng three pomes -- 21 0. And dac do ycu recogtiae that u be? 22 22 A. OweiHierC'8 BhlMt Mata 13. the black parla. la a So I’ve ^ thirty tinea thirty tinea thirty, «dild> is 23 tuncy-aewi thouamd, vhlch is half, again, as as 23 jadtec that was mteiLccad to ne at the labcaatecy te 24 ei^cen thauamd. 24 ooiperlaai with Inages In thia oaae. 2S 25 Q. And did you atcoipc to pB&aiu the am phocog^Mc And ao te ny tpinioi, it's enoi^ to 93 ouer to aqr . .. 1 analyses, corparisen analysea fnn the (fecogr^hs fran tha 1 3 bank aurveillane phocegrapha of tha Stmxust Bsik rdbary en 2 Chm lltcla acrlnga actadad to than that nekM it eaaiar to 3 Janoxy the 23rd of 2001 with tha jadtet itself? 3 ^■b on to chan, m wall as a ripper at cha my front Chm haa 4 A. yes, I did. 4 a acring actadad wbare it just ndee it naaliw to find the S Q. And did you isataie datta to iUustme your ctaaristlma 5 siipar. 6 and flndinga? 6 7 A. yea. t did. 7 ctM pzcvlde aheoec an aiUuldeted Icdc to Cha jacket. $ Q. astdig you aoMeiment’a BMtalta w-F alaafi <3, that's 6-F 8 [BOvldBB ehanbeca for the stuffing to ante am that the jacket It hM a nntar of z^peis. Sene of the z4vara have The jadac la also divided into a lutbtr ot panels It also 10 pr^ared by ycu fron the bank aurvnillmoe photugi^ia of tba 9 su^ warm. 10 Q. >to> about the sleeves thanelveB? U SkiiituBt icUaiy? u 12 A. yea. <2»iiarmant’a SMtiUta w-f alaah a and MB6 3 CO see if che eleaa dsBeetarletics netdied. 4 mmfactursl fay the asne mnifacturing plant uoing the esie 4 $ « imterlal sxl the Hie oockle cutter cut out? 9 that it's pcselble fer thie jadcet to haw besi wean by the A. MU, the cnl/, the eni/ eheraeterlatlca that this jadat's 6 bak retber. k T f*a»\ T anri AiA In rhia naA» 7 a atalzis, iiBiia. 8 ■y chla jadcac issi't wexn by Che bsk xdbn. Cr in this oae. U you look cloaely, yoj see theoe Jiiinf^lrr> If the cleee dwccsetenetice iretdi. chst you can esc/ 7 9^119 CO have are 9E&119 to be host and Gear diaiaccaTistlCB, 9 v> If che claee tharaccalacio cfan't nstdt. Chen I can 9 Q. Cki you at least dscexndne ttethn or not cha jadcet is 10 Uttla apoCM ahere the daxn appaara to be ccntrig cut. Hsw, the 10 ecnalscent to che jadcac dcplcced In che bsik zctbecy u peislstsce of aoiethlng lUce that, it cculd dliimwired just 11 12 u u 13 But that'a about the oily festucee that I notioed 14 ^a**!'** of there being any nezklngi m the jadcet chat na^c be IS vlffltol#. 16 Ihat would not be -- chat would not caimic os to A. YM. 0. 1st BB d»w you •• now, getting bade to our bddbtts 6-C M and 6-0. wsuld you Sew ths cuwLeie of chs jury «kat sialyeas 19 you did and dwt paints of ooipaclaai, I'U cse Chat cene Ccr 18 this jiKket, you wsre able to fiid? n iodividuailM this jadcet. Ihia is a ^od jadcet to wear if 17 A. 6-0 and -- 6-P and 6-d, diidi are ahowi on che left-hand 18 you're td±0iig a bsik. bscsuse you cBi't Indlvidiallae It. 19 Q. ttiereas. the dUcc would not be a gxd ddzc to wok ttat 19 iMvlng cbe bsk. 30 ititdng a bertd 20 21 A. Ociect. 22 Q. nth respect to the jadcac than, what analysis cr 21 Jnd cbe one big duce arrow chan is pcdnclng to Che taoed cn 23 ujipai'isen are you able to pertctm giwi the fact that you 23 cetber. 24 oict idsAlfy my Ifldlvldjal ehanctenatics of Che jadat 24 2S that would nehe It '"iTe in the world of all cha jadcaca 29 aide Is dbcdng ths very taoctoii at cha jadcac thK dnwe a 18 aide of this diact. Snw the bade at che bank nlba ae he's At the c^, che bsk cetber ie cloaer to the cowbe. 22 the parka that'a otidclng oib bahind cha bead of che bsk ihe bexton diarc, che bottan pilccuie ai che left-hand »o._a___MJ— 1 little bob V string stlddng dsMi tcon the bcccan et the 1 2 jad«. 3 pbocograph. on the lefc-tsnd side, you can aee chat then's a 3 Cn Che ri^-hand side of this dart, it's slnply Finally, at che very bottan of the bank uYber 3 ^thsr. a acaeod gather chat Is visible here with ths locet 4 l^lng out the podca. And cha snow's pcdncing -- 4 aerow, c)Mt is likewise pceasb cn che left-hsrl eleew of this 5 Q. Thaae ate photos you code; an 1 rl^? 9 jadcet. 6 A. Ibass ace ptncogcipbs Clwt 1 took oi che n^-had side. 6 Q. BHed cn cheee pbotc^^ba, csi you say chK at Iohc in 7 ItMB AW 7 ^paarenee, thee che jadac d^ilcced In che phocup^ba le •• 8 0. Ibalr rl^? ihelr rl^ or *• 9 A. TOUT rl^. YOw rl^. U The rl^-hand side of this dsR is labelsd )enei 8 Idancleal in appeaianoe to cha Oewaanant'a Bdtlbic, che blade 9 jadcet chat wee aeiaad? 10 A. 1 -- cha wy 1 would e^ It is chec the jadcet U jadcst. The ddea arrow at cha cep la pointing to the hood. U —Owecimt's Mlblt 13. is Inrtlerlngridable Cen the i2 Jtxl CD cha bocceei, the blade arrow in che \eav oxnee is 12 13 potaUng to che bed chat la oi tbs neln tipper bere. 13 g. YOU juec Hi'c 14 14 fact, the eons jaddt as tpposwi to che ons Idwcical epsriflr H3W. chaee aren't indlvidiil idsicifying HUUI Ujr Zlw UBfk HAMfl . to a aeiencific certainty that it is, in IS diecterieties. Cheee ere elnply claee daiaccerlstla. 15 blade jadcet eelied? 16 Osy're oenelecenc beciaen chle jadst sd che one wetn by che 16 A. Cbcreec. 17 bnk xd±er. 17 Q. Ibw. you were alao adcKi to 18 IS Mry Key bag thee OSi S m crua': Suacalnad. 4 ttnrve? Jti^. I'm ^dng to dqaet. S 6 UHl. 9I^DI: 6 7 Q. itoU. do }cu toot -- *0 you d»'t toiow th* (lenufaccurlng 7 8 p*oo*M with reject to that ptn-iniiM- 8 9 A. 'Itac'* ecKxeet. 10 0- Gt^. 9 Here you able to 15 Ml. srerai-. to wuld offer 3-G inco evldnce at chla 16 cr tek banli m Cha late wBi«C of the individual. 16 cine. VB3-0, YCur (tnx. 17 0. Again, abac cplnloi on you dca«. if eny. adch reelect eo 17 AS. (DES; Bare cbjeccin. YOur Mmr. 18 the cbjeeca dgaeted cn tha left «artec of cha robber? 18 TK COKT; Ct^ectlcn ovemilad. 19 A. Tha «Odch of Cheat faaturea and cha f»aanw of bri^ 19 EOavaomc Ddiibdc tinbar VB3-0 waa narked nd 30 ar«M would tt oonaiecsK with infrh faoea, arm onalacenc with 30 reoaimd in evldencel. 31 U BY tfl. StSFTN: 4* ■- would be oxBlacnc with theee feacurea being no wettaa on it will be lacelmd. UQ 444V W4 44V Ui UJi blifl HJAIffl . 23 0. Finally, with redact to the Bnk UUtad ptaaco9:x)tB, 24 QjiiiaiiiiuA'a Bddblc IBS-F. Wuld cisaa phocognpha alao be 38 oonaiacnc with the retter wearing two tttac wcctaaa? 23 {toC093gta nd Wat you di^ 34 A. The two left aoac inagaa tt Che CIV nd Che enter Inaga ac 25 1 ^Vplixlng tha Pint Souchem Me lObbacy of Onxfcw 19Cb. 1 A. The claaa cbaxecterlstm of a face are Chli9 Lite the 3 3000. 2 mpe of a me. shape of a tiouth, cbln. fz^Ue. Chcae axe 3 On Che n^-hand aide li a Iciomi -- at the tep, la a 3 class dwesccaclacica. 4 tann fivugnfti of wr. MdOelth. The boccoe pletwe cn the 4 S rigte-hni aide is ainply chat phocegnph locaced acpecKitnKely $ 6 feccy-five ijayete ts ainulate the am angle aa «• hm of the 6 bdIm# nw, cixiffad KBeth, mt pstuoM or otiMr 7 t»k rettar'a face. 7 ottf&dA. e e The arxM are ainply, in chia dwte, painting to the 9 {Bofile view thac cne can aee ducting Che noae. nouch ml The indlvitei identifying texacterlaeiei Chat are momscy co poalclisly idsclfy soiecne include such ehln^ as This -- Chase iiiegea fxoii the Pixat Sxchaxn Bank 9 dx'C pacnLC the — cne to xeaolis audi faBOsea oeS: Cbyectiai. 9 Tie aaCRT: Omruled. 10 (bocogc^ba is cmaiscerc with che ^pratauue of Che % 2J 23 Fliat, if you could idecKify taat tha talrta aia. 22 tabrie. tht flwteccuKVa 93d tten ponibly 23 24 taacher or not there are diffareoc {ointa of Idtatifieaticn in 34 2$ the aaie init hare, 2 were narked Hi. SISTII: And at this pedne. we would tender the 4 rl#K fimt pnel, you can aee thera'a actually a fine 4 wltnaan tar ecoaa-exaitnaticn. 9 line that coeun rartleally cd the rl^ front ptaal. S 6 6 again bow you arrived ac this figjre cf me in cfaircy-ara 1^ I be aetaad? 9 9 7 a wy, cf a li^ line, here oi this aasn. that tip If we lock on thie ehirt, W-2, that triefl line T>£axKr: Sure, hara a aeec. Meoluuly. I'm aura 10 coning off of tha collar la veil paet that taubla atciped line. 10 you're tired. U Sana thing cn the other aide, the yota, tana it raeta the left 11 12 front panel, la diffexant oi the tvo ahiita. 13 CO aora eacirate of vhac choae feacwea an, X'n actually 13 13 iraaaurlng the «dch of theae faecurea and the dlatanae beeweat M idthout taking thla taixt taert 14 Q. YOA tMlolly poixftfld 15 HDula 9iibie you to frmr stmi ot In ccdar CO aligi the feacuxea tad oora 14 choa. IS 16 A. That the ahirta are different. 1X9 dUMSt tlun liJ9 Ctl UU4 9UiL ifl III lltiftiy 16 OB CtaCh ta inta acrooe. ckay? That black line ia lepiiiimd 17 0. So. te oraiple. if you had a phccografk of ota of tha 17 every three nd-a-half Intaee. okay? 18 ahirta nl you had tha ahixt itaelf that you hid to nata a 19 oiipariaai fion, theae are the typea of thinge that you wnilrt U 20 ha able to lock tar? 30 anDChta alRillarly cm off piece tad Juat laid it datn and you a 31 elid it alaig, then evray ctsee and-a-half intaes thta black 23 a trat. ccr «a«plt7 C£ NIT3ESS; A. TO diffenciace the tairta, yae. thta'a eocxact. NL BihriN: Your Maocr. ta thie Um. tar daajatxativa purpoeea, we would offer into avlitan 34 Otweinicnc'e MUbiU VH-i and W-2. 2S TlCCaSir: They'll be receirad in wldtaoa. So chat if cna veze to lay doei ana three and-a-half 19 Inta piece of cloth Clot wee cut f in aquan and Chen cock 23 atrlpa tauld aligi. 33 And ao aeauRing that la a rwtton prooaaa. taidi the 34 itamemative ediiblca help dencnatieca, it la a one in 39 thirty-five tance that chat feature wLU all^i wltb that Imcibc, or bf tBtcmmim. tn/ aOme fwcuw on tiac. 2 ve 03(Sir: Mary good. 3 Mr. H>«8, I'B gnog to lac you ocaa-aNaattna In eta 1 that ai Isur. 2 VC OW: All ri^. 3 Hi. tOB: 4 flonlns. aiice I'm aura Che wltnaaa la eiAaacad. Md if ha'a 4 chac loig. S DOC, Che zaac of ua ax«. S 6 MC. HMS: yea, air. « 7 THE 03iicr: SO M’11 ba lA raoaaa. B We're galng to racaaa aC CUa Clue, naiheia of Che I 011 aynree ic'a zaacing. 2 cecaM, I uculd iccyiaa to argue the OMa in che aftaanecn. 2 judge, 1C a zaacing to che jury. 3 >bw Irng do you need In acguwC? 3 4 •6. KTHIWI: Has- and-a-half, TOur Hxcr. 4 eba thlnga the yuauiiBU. has co prove ia chec the two giM S Hi. IOCS: >Ar and>a-half. 5 mm Cron euceide, were imiifaccuzed oKslde tbe scare of C HE CDUfT: All Ti/ft.. SaaRB fair. 6 derlda for IC co be a fadKal offanae. 7 MS. Kmam: your Hsnor, my I — Ybur Rxer, che 7 8 ggueuiiBA oMoualy ancictpetee raetlng cuuiuw aoning. 9 They my put oi a ooi^e of aherc wtcneaaee after che agfecc. 10 ttw dM your Havr wnc Co handle che oases chac are And, Jidga, lo chK W. HdttelCh ladereCBda, osa of M I aliBBs^ know chac Chaae gszsa wme noc 8 zBiifaccuzad In cha Scare of Plnrlda. And they hawe a HiasBee 9 ftOB AlF «Ad would ooia In and caeci^ co chac, ckay? Mc -10 they're noc •• chac’a noc an leeue. The eeoend thing chec they've co prove la chac yas're a oonvlecad falos, ad thac'a «fy >b aeiend eWa oousc. The Jkz^ CBS calB -- chay ess adc. che gnermBC ms a* cha Jtz^ to cake judicial nocloe of Che face chac chaae'a a pending vlolacios -- or auperviaed iTlnw violacicn pending a^Uac you ac this cine. «d chat's auffidanc, aa lerg aa auebady coma in ad idgnclflaa xwai-jw. your iber? there are ody a few elomKs chac hawe noc 12 baw taoitfc into Chla ceee. I think )k. name «dll acipulace. u 13 IM chec aoieching chac you «nc tx-eomtod co ycur 14 cotfC — to ycur icnr betee the gownme zeece cr ia tbac IS aenaetaing m obi d» afeanazda. atcar eba jury la deilbetecing? VC COCRTi Nall, you CBS leac aa co Corea i — tdsac U 13 17 aze thay? 18 ». Krnwni cna thzou^ cuelvo, your H3«r. 17 19 19 to scipulau to noac ot chac scuff cuiuiilw. That's Msec da's u VC ccucr: -• 1 through 12. and chan ve cas ca)a sv 13 14 IS 15 18 And Kelly hfcrrla could idencify jou. S3 wa'n galng 20 cha r«miising alaiBiCa as eonoazTSS cha last no cones afesr 20 talking about den ahs’s calking about acipulaclae; do ydu 21 cha Jury has zecizad. 33 IC. KimNl: Bo aa to not [zejudloe, luiluuw i 23 «on'C, I wn'c apeclflcally say Gbuecs 1 chroi^ 12, hmene 21 szidaracand? 24 chac BU^iC ijiply CO ochar cosaca. I'll say Ub gnenaunc 3S zeaca m dlaeuamd yaacaedv in oossc. 32 VC IBBCHir: YW. 33 VC ffiuir: itsK Aoc che 34 Hi. IOCS: 3S veccucr: you mid chse's a dUpae abaa dec, chlngi che mgazlae -- %at«icr it Is. 2 1 )ocw hew Rsiy ochar disiaxd it hm oi it, but it ia rsn«d a 2 Aiff IWUy Rolsi. ML HM8: IC'8 Dif4nd«C'S BMUt IS. It'as 3 (tncognth ot a black oala and (jasrifis ahod; 13 fzan a aa^eine of auieus adwtlaljg watdaa cr album cx 14 aomchlng. 13 Aesflodca atd nobody tms do woi the laac peeaidenUsl IS IS But it elaarly dnwa ny eliant'a ethnic hecltaga in 14 alaccioi. Hi. KIB: Juc^, I will. I will affix it with 16 the aista in diidi he Uvea. And, tlsLstcae. l thirk It la 17 pcobaclw. 16 aanething ao chat it is nx visible. 18 18 the gsttUnan wring four wacdse will be reoeiwd. IE. MnSMa: And It wBsi't awn fond In the houae, 19 YOur Hxcr. 1 nean, I guaaa It would ba oie thing if it wee 17 19 HE 03J7: ThaC'agccd. Ckay. But tha plccuie of Indeed, the colphlna had a pucer who used to wear a 20 feud In his house, but I dan't isiew wAara this came fron. So 20 wetdi playing focchell. 21 then's no indteation the detsdant even acr eaw this. 22 Hi. KIES: Ml. yeu lenw. JUf^. let im — the 23 easiest wpoiae to tfaac la. la chm with all ds ta^aec, you 24 haw data m agenca aaarOlng a Insa locking for wiitace of 21 25 a fask zctkecy. Thay*ca net naomaarlly locking thecu^ 2S 22 HE OU7: a^. So bring oe ycur jury inacnrciona, 23 yots vardix fixm. And if we rmrliile by noon, w' U argue Cfae 24 erne conctow. aoodni^. Tbsk you wry Mb. Rclal .