Case Document 33-3 Filed 04/17/18 Page 1 of 47 Exhibit 3 Case Document 33-3 Filed 04/17/18 Page 2 of 47 Ashton J. Hayward 1 1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT NORTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA 2 PENSACOLA DIVISION 3 JOSEPH GLOVER, 4 Plaintiff, Case No.: 5 vs. 6 CITY OF PENSACOLA, et al., 7 Defendants. UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 9 - NORTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA PENSACOLA DIVISION .10 -- SCHMITT, 11 Plaintiff, 12 Case NO.: vs. 13 CITY OF PENSACOLA, et a1., 14 Defendants. 15 16 DEPOSITION OF ASHTON JAMES HAYWARD, 17 taken at the offices Of Hitchcock Associates, 18 111 South Baylen Street, Pensacola, Florida, on the 19 13th day of December, 2017, at 9:03 a.Freedom Coin-rt Reporting, Inc I I I 877673-3660 Case Document 33-3 Filed 04/17/18 Page 3 of 47 Ashton J. Hayward other. Let me finish my question, and I'll let you finish your answer. If we talk on top of each other, it's hard to for the court reporter to take down. Fair enough? A. '(Nods head.) Q. What's your current address? A. Personal or.. Q. Personal. A. 1708 Osceola. Q. And what?s the ZIP Code? A. 32503. Q. And what is your office address? A. 222 West Main Street, 32502. Q. And you are currently the mayor of the City of Pensacola? A. Yes, sir. Q. When did you get elected? A. 2010. Q. Are there four?year terms here or longer or shorter? A. Q. A. Q. Four?year. So you were elected again in 2014? Yes, sir. And up for reelection when in '18? Freedom Court Reporting. Inc 877-373-3660 Case Document 33-3 Filed 04/17/18 Page 4 of 47 Ashton J. Hayward think '14 or A. '14, I believe. Q. authority to A. Q. approval? A. Q. A. Q. city, other than city attorney, since you've been elected? A. office in '11, Rusty was the city attorney He he's not the city attorney. He works in the city attorney he's one of our city attorneys. Q. Q. attorney's office? I'm sorry. You were telling me you '15? I was reelected in '14, so it was after And did you as mayor do you have the hire and fire your HR director? Yes. Again, without city council input or Yes. What is Rusty Wells' current position? He's one of our city attorneys. Has he held any other position with the When I was elected in 2010 and took You've got to help me with that one. He?s not the city attorney. Who is the city attorney? Lysia Bowling. But Mr. Wells works in the city Freedom Court Reporting, Inc 877?373?3660 Case Document 33-3 Filed 04/17/18 Page 5 of 47 Ashton J. Hayward out with the finance offic Q. he a City of A. us. Q. name right. A, Q. A. Q. City attorney. A. office. Q. first name? A. Q. A. Yeah. He works in the city w? he helps city attorney. He helps out with the e. He's one of our attorneys. Does he have a private practice, or is Pensacola employee? To my knowledge he's just employed with And Ms. Bowling I can't ever get her Bowling? Bowling. When did she become the city attorney? After '14. And why did she replace Mr. Wells? She replaced Jim Messer. Somebody in between I missed? Yes. Why did Mr. Wells step down from being :3 That was a choice I made when I got into And Mr. Barker, I didn't what's his Dick Barker. What's his current.position? CFO. Freedom Court Reporting, Inc 877?373?3660 Case Document 33-3 Filed 04/17/18 Page 6 of 47 Ashton J. Hayward 21 1 A. When was that date? 2 Q. February 2, 2016. 3 A. Okay. 4 Q. And for ease of this conversation, prior 5 to January of '16, prior to January 1, 2016, are you 6 aware of any performance problems by Chief Schmitt? 7 A. Performance problems? 8 Q. Yes. Any performance problems by Chief 9 Schmitt? 10 .A. Not that I recall. 11 Q. Are you aware do you recall any sort 12 of disciplines or reprimands issued to Chief Schmitt? 13 A. Not that I recall. 14 Q. What about Chief Glover, are you aware 15 of any performance problems towards Chief Gloverassume you're not aware of any 18 sort of discipline or reprimands towards Chief Glover 19 either? 20 A. No. 21 Q. You're aware, I assume, that Chief 22 Glover and several others have filed a lawsuit against 23 the City of Pensacola alleging race discrimination? 24 MR. LARKIN: Object to the form. 25 Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) You can Freedom Court Reporting, Inc I 877?373-3660 Case Document 33-3 Filed 04/17/18 Page 7 of 47 Ashton J. Hayward 22 1 MR. LARKIN: You can answer. 2 A. Can you ask the question again? 3 Q. Yes, sir. You're aware, are you not, 4 that Chief Glover, along with several other 5 African?American firefighters, filed a lawsuit against 6 the City of Pensacola alleging race discrimination? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. And that was filed prior to your 9 election? 10 A. Yes, I believe. 11 Q. But it was pending during your tenure as 12 mayor? 13 A. I don't recall. 14 . Q. You don?t recall if it was ongoing 15 during the time you were mayor? 16 A. I don?t remember. 17 Q. But you do know and recall that they 18 Chief Glover along with others sued the city for race 19 discrimination, right? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. And you're aware that Chief Glover filed 22 an EEOC charge against the city in December of 2015, 23 correct? 24 A. I'd heard that. 25 Q. How did you become aware? Freedom Court Reporting, Inc 877?373?3660 Case Doeument 33-3 Filed 04/17/18 Page 8 of 47 Ashton J. Hayward 23 1 A. I think Eric Olson, maybe. 2 Q. And what do you recall? 3 A. That they told me that, and that was it. 4 Q. What did they tell you, and who is the 5 "they"? 6 A. Well, Eric Olson told me that, and I 7 assume that Ed told Eric and Eric told me, and I'm 8 sure I said, "Thatfs unfortunate" and kept walking. 9 Q. Did you have any discussions with 10 Mr. Sisson HM and that's the Ed in the sentence you 11 gave ?w about it? 12 A. Not that I recall. 13 Q. Did you did you decide that the 14 city ed as to who the city would hire? Do you have to 15 approve the city lawyersWho does that? 18 A. The city attorney. 19 Q. And you're aware that Mr. Larkin and his 20 firm was hired to represent the city in relation to 21 Mr. Glover's December 2015 EEOC charge, right? 22 A. I assume, yeah. 23 Q. Mr. Larkin and his firm have handled 24 other matters for the city prior to the December 15, 25 2015, charge, right? Freedom Court Reporting, Inc 877?373?3660 Case Document 33-3 Filed 04/17/18 Page 9 of- 47 Ashton J. Hayward 27 1 Q. But you were briefed on them? 2 A. Yeah. 3 Q. And you knew that they were alleging 4 conduct against Mr. Sisson and Mr. Olson, fair enough? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Now, after the charges were filed and 7 received by the city, Mr. Schmitt and Glover were 8 placed on leave, correct? 9 MR. LARKIN: Object to the form. 10 A. I don't remember. 11 Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) Do you remember them 12 being placed on leave? 13 A. They were placed on leave. 14 Q. Okay. And do you remember the date they 15 were placed on leavewere to tell you they were placed 18 on leave on February 2, 2016, does that sound 19 familiar? 20 A. Around that time, yeah. 21 Q. So the EEOC charges were filed in 22 December of 2015. We've already established that, 23 right? 24 A. I guess. 25 Q. So after the EEOC charges were filed and Freedom Court Reporting, Inc 877~373~3660 Case Document 33-3 Filed 04/17/18 Page 10 of 47 Ashton J. Hayward 25 1 Q. Did you have any conversations with 2 Mr. Sisson about the substance of either of these 3 gentlemen's EEOC chargesyou recall having conversations with 6 anyone about the substance of these EEOC charges? 7 A. Not about the substance. I know that, 8 you know, I was told by Eric they were filed. 9 Q. Anything else? 10 A. I'm sure I said it was unfortunate, and 11 that was it. I didn't get into the substance. 12 Q. Did you ever follow back up with ?w 13 or with anything about the charges? 14 A. No. I'm briefed when we have our 15 management meetings and things in the city. 16 Q. So you would have been briefed at times 17 about the charges? 18 A. Possibly. 19 Q. Who would have briefed you? 20 A. =Eric. 21 Q. Okay. And do you recall him briefing 22 you on these charges? 23 A. I don't recall, but I'm sure they 24 were in the meetings that we had, giving me an 25 update, I guess. Freedom Court Reporting, Inc 877?373?3660 Case Document 33-3 Filed 04/17/18 Page 11 of 47 Ashton J. Hayward 26 1 Q. How often do you have what did you 2 call them, management meetings? I'm not sure if 3 that?s what you called it. 4 A. Yeah. We try to get together on 5 Tuesdays. 6 Q. And who is present each Tuesday in these 7 management meetings? 8 A. The city attorney, city administrator, 9 assistant city administrator, and Dick Barker, our 10 CFO. 11 Q. What is the city's process upon receipt 12 of the EEOC charges? 13 A. I don't know. 14 Q. Who handles all of thatWhen the charges were filed, and then 17 subsequent to that, were you made aware that both of 18 these gentlemen made allegations against Mr. Sisson 19 and Mr. Olson? 20 Yeah. 21 Q. Tell me what you know about Mr. Glover's 22 charge. What was it about? 23 A. I can't recall. 24 Q. What about Mr. Schmitt's charge? 25 A. I can't recall. Fr?edom Court Reporting, Inc 3377-3736660 Case Document 33-3 Filed 04/17/18 Page 12 of 47 Ashton J. Hayward 27 1. Q. But you were briefed on them? 2 A. Yeah. 3 Q. And you knew that they were alleging 4 conduct against Mr. Sisson and Mr. Olson, fair enoughNow, after the charges were filed and 7 received by the city, Mr. Schmitt and Glover were 8 placed on leave, correct? 9 MR. LARKIN: Object to the form. 10 A. I don't remember. 11 Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) Do you remember them 12 being placed on leave? 13 A. They were placed on leave. 14 Q. Okay. And do you remember the date they 15 were placed on leave? 16 A. -No. 17 Q. If I were to tell you they were placed 18 on leave on February 2, 2016. does that sound 19 familiar? 20 A. Around that time, yeah. 21 Q. So the EEOC charges were filed in 22 December of 2015. We've already established that, 23 right? 24 A. I guess. 25 Q. So after the EEOC charges were filed and Freedom Court Reporting, Inc 877?373?3660 Case Document 33-3 Filed 04/17/18 Page 13 of 47 Ashton J. Hayward 29 1 leave? 2 A. I assume he was briefed. 3 Q. And did he agree with the decision? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And was he involved in making the 6 decision? Was it discussed with him as to whether or 7 not the two should be placed on leave? 8 A. I assume. 9 Q. And what about Mr. Sisson 10 MR. LARKIN: Don't assume. Just answer 11 . what you know. Okay? '12 Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) What about Mr. Sisson? 13 Was he involved in any discussions With 14 A. I don?t recall. 15 Q. You don't recall him ever being present 16 in any meetings in which this was discussed? 1? A. I can?t I don't remember. I mean, 18 with me or with who? 19 - Q. With you. That you're in a meeting, 20 he's there, it was discussed placing them on leave? 21 A. I don?t recall if Ed was there. 22 Q. Do you know if Mr. Sisson was briefed on 23 the matter by Mr. Olson? 24 A. I don?t know. 25 Q. Or Mr. Larkin? [Freedom Court Reporting, Inc I 877-373-3660 Case Document 33-3 Filed 04/17/18 Page 14 of 47 2 Ashton J. Hayward 30 A. I would say yes. Q. Were you present? A. With who? Q. When Mr. Sisson was briefed on whether 1not these two gentlemen should be placed on leave and the decision to place them on leave? A. Briefed by who? Q. Anyone. A. I was Q. That Ed Sisson was present, whether Sisson was present? A. I don?t recall with Ed. Q. Tell me what you recall with Mr. Olson. A. Well, I just I remember just being briefed by Mr. Larkin. Q. When was that? A. I can?t in February is what you're telling me. Q. Well, February is when they went on leave. That was not my question. My question was A. I don?t recall what day it was. How long was it before February 2nd? A. I don't recall. Who was present? A I recall Eric and I having a Freedom Court Reporting, Inc 8774373?3660 Case Document 33-3 Filed 04/17/18 Page 15 of 47 Ashton J. Hayward 31 1 conversation. 2 Q. And tell me about the conversation. 3 A. To my knowledge they recommended they go 4 on leave. 5 Q. And why were they recommended they go on 6 leave? 7 A. It was our from counsel they 8 recommended them going on leave. 9 Q. And Mr. Larkin was counsel handling the 10 EEOC charges, right? 11 A. I believe. 12 Q. And can you tell me any other reasons 13 why it was recommended they go On leave to you in this 14 meeting? 15 A. Well, I was briefed on the meeting 16 basically on things that were supposedly going on in 17 the fire department, and they recommended to me that 18 these guys need to go on leave 19 Q. When was that meeting? 20 A. I don't recall. 21 Q. That was a a separate meeting 22 than the ones about the EEOC charges, weren't they? 23 A. I can't recall. 24 Q. Whose decision was it to investigate 25 Mr. Glover? Freedom Court Reporting, Inc 2377?3736660 Case Document 33-3 Filed 04/17/18 Page 16 of 47 Ashton J. Hayward . 34 1 briefed me. 2 Q. So Eric and we who is the city 3 administrator? 4 A. (Nods head.) 5 Q. And who allegations of wrongdoing, as 6 far as EEOC complaints, had been made against him, 7 right? At this time, right? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Along with Mr. Larkin, who was 10 representing the city in the EEOC matters, right? ll A. Yes. 12 Q. The two of them. Do you recall anyone 13 else discussing any other problems or the need to 14 investigate Mr. Schmitt or Mr. Glover? 15 A. No, I mean, that's what I remember in 16 the conversation. 17 Q. And I want you to think about Mr. Sisson 18 because it's my understanding from reading 19 Russell Van Sickle's notes and other documents that 20 Mr. Sisson was present. 21 A. Uh?huh. 22 Q. So do you recall whether or not Sisson 23 .was present? 24 A. I don't recall. He could have been. I 25 don't recall. Freedom Court Reporting, Inc 877-373-3660 Case Document 33-3 Filed 04/17/18 Page 17 of 47 Ashton J. Hayward 35 1 Q. Being that this was HR matters, 2 personnel matters, would it make sense to you that he _3 be there? 4 MR. LARKIN: Object to the form. 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) But sitting here you 7 don't recall. So I take it you don't recall if he 8 gave any input as to any of these issues, things, that 9 were not good in the fire department? 10 A. I recall walking in. It was like the 11 people that I recall and it was I didn't stay there 12 for the whole meeting, and I remember walking in, and 13 I remember walking out fairly quickly. 14 Q. Prior to m? and let me give you a date 15 and see if this helps. It's my understanding this 16 meeting took place January 29, 2016. 17 A. No. I'm sure it was cold and ugly out. 18 Q. Prior to this meeting, had you ever been 19 briefed or told about any sort of mismanagement or 20 performance problems at the fire department by Chief 21 Schmitt? 22 A. Had he told me personally? 23 Q. No. Has anyone told you? Because I'd 24 already asked you earlier were you aware of any 25 problems by Chief Schmitt at the fire department and Freedom Court Reporting, Inc I 877-373?3660 Case Document 33-3 Filed 04/17/18 Page 18 of 47 Ashton J. Hayward 36 1 you said no. So I just want to "w you come to this 2 meeting January 29th. Prior to this meeting on 3 January 29, 2016, had you ever been alerted to any 4 problems of the fire department on the part of Chief 5 Schmitt? 6 A. No. 7 Q. Had you ever been alerted to any 8 performance problems, mismanagement, unprofessional 9 conduct by Chief Schmitt? :10 A. No. 11 Q. What about by Chief Glover, prior to 12 walking into this meeting, same questionswas told to you at the time 15 that that they recommended they and the only two 16 people you remember speaking to at the time was Eric 17 and Rob, that they recommended an outside counsel 18 investigate 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. correct? 21 A. Yes, sir. 22 Q. Do you recall why they recommended 23 outside counsel? 24 A. There was retaliatiOn against a 25 subordinate by Mr. Glover is What they told me and "w Freedom Court Reporting, Inc 8774736660 Case Document 33-3 Filed 04/17/18 Page 19 of 47 Ashton J. Hayward . 38 1 has for many, many years? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. So he's brought into this meeting where 4 it's discussed the need to investigate these two 5 gentlemen, correct? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Did you agree at that time to hire 8 Mr. Van Sickle to investigate them, or had that 9 already been done by Mr. Olson? .10 A. No. I didn't have anything to do with 11 it. I don't Russell was there. 12 Q. And you don't have any idea how Russell 13 ended up there? 14 A. No. 15 Q. Why was Mr. Wells present? Did you tell 16 me yeah, you did. You told me Rusty Wells_was 17 present. 18 I A. Rusty was there. 19 Q. Why was he present? 20 A. Rusty is a lawyer. He has been with the 21 city a long time. I guess someone that was in the 22 meeting asked him.to come to the meeting. 23 Q. And you have no knowledge as to who 24 called the meeting? 25 A. No. Freedom Court Reporting, Inc 877-373-3660 Case Document 33-3 Filed 04/17/18 Page 20 of 47 Ashton J. Hayward I 42 A. No. The city has I we have a 2 calendar, my calendar. I guess it's the mayor's 3 calendar. 4 Q. You don't dispute you agree that 5 Mr. Van Sickle has provided legal advice on employment 6 matters to you and the City, right, prior to this 7 investigation? 8 A. I assume if you're telling me. I don't 9 recall. .10 Q. Are you aware that Mr. Van Sickle ll conducted an investigation? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Into some allegations against Chief 14 Schmitt and Chief Glover? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. What was your involvement in the 17 investigation? 18 A. Just that I okayed it that day in the 19 meeting. They told me about it and I had to okay it. 20 Q. And then what? 21 A. Then Mr. Van Sickle did his 22 investigation. 23 Q. Yes, sir. And what was your involvement 24 with Mr. Van Sickle in the investigation? 25 A. Nothing. He Freedom Court Reporting, Inc I I 877?373-3660 Case Document 33-3 Filed 04/17/18 Page 21 of 47 Ashton J. Hayward 50 1 . A. I heard he did. 2 Q. And did you ever listen to the contents 3 of the interview or read a transcript of it? 4 A. I don't recall. 5 Q. Where did you hear that he had done so? 6 A. I believe Eric. 7 Q. And what did Mr. Olson tell you about 8 the interview? 9 A. That he did a radio interview. 10 Q. Did he tell you the substance of it? 11 A. I don't recall. 12 Q. . So that I?m clear, Mr. Olson was in the 13 meeting January 29th-of 2016 when and he led the 14 discussions, him and Mr. Larkin, of the need to 15 investigate the two individuals, Glover and Schmitt? 16 MR. LARKIN: Object to the form. 17 A. Correct. 18 Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) And Mr. Olson was 19 involved in the decision to hire Mr. Van Sickle? 20 . MR. LARKIN: Object to the form. 21 A. Can you ask that again? 22 Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) Mr. Olson was involved 23 in the decision to hire Mr. Van Sickle to conduct this 24 investigation? 25 A. Yes. Freedom Court Reporting, Inc 3377?3736660 Case Document 33-3 Filed 04/17/18 Page 22 of 47 Ashton J. Hayward 51 1 Q. Mr. Olson was aware of the EEOC charges 2 when they were filed because he was the one that told 3 you, right? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And to your knowledge Mr. Olson was 6 aware and had discussions prior to this January 29th 7 meeting of the need to investigate Mr. Schmitt and 8 Mr. Glover? 9 A. I don't recall that. 10 Q. During the radio interview, I assume 11 you've been made aware that Mr. Olson stated that he 12 received the EEOC charges, correct? 13 A. (Nods head.) 14 Q. That he notified the insurance carrier 15 and that, through the insurance carrier, the city 16 hired Allen, Norton Blue, which is Mr. Larkin and 17 his firm, right? 18 MR. LARKIN: Object to the form. 19 Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) Are you aware of 20 Mr. Olson saying that? 21 A. No. 22 Q. I'm back to: Did you ever hear the 23 interview I forgot your question. I was thinking 24 something HH 25 A. I don't recall.? Freedom Court Reporting, Inc 877-373-3660 Case Document 33-3 Filed 04/17/18 Page 23 of 47 Ashton J. Hayward 53 1 And he said, did an interview on 2 1620," I believe it was. 3 I said, "How was it?" 4 ?Oh, it was fine." 5 Q. Anything else? 6 A. No. 7 Q. After the interview came out, did you 8 have a did you ever hear anything about it, have 9 any problems with it? 10 A. I think I heard that he was on the radio 11 and talked about complaints that show. Eric is not on the radio all the time and 13 Q. The allegations that ww well, let me say 14 that the EEOC charges that Chief Schmitt and Chief 15 Glover filed, what, if any, investigation was 16 conducted into those charges? 17 HA. I don?t recall. 18 Q. You have already told me that you were 19 aware that the EEOC charges and the allegations in 20 them allege conduct by Sisson and Olson, right? 21 A. I think you told me that. 22 Q. And you agree that you knew that the 23 EEOC charges made by these two gentlemen, Mr. GloVer 24 and Mr. Schmitt, made allegations against Sisson and 25 Olson, right? Freedom Court Reporting, Inc I I 87745736660 Case Document 33-3 Filed 04/17/18 Page 24 of 47 Ashton J. Hayward 54 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Can you tell me why Mr. Olson and 3 Mr. Sisson were not placed on leave pending an 4 investigation into the EEOC chargeS? 5 A. No. 6 Q. Did anybody ever recommend to you that 7 since they were the subject of EEOC charges that they 8 be placed on leave so "we can investigate the 9 charges"? 10 A. NO. 11 Q. And you're not aware of any 12 investigation into the charges themselvesone ever briefed you on any 15 investigations? 16 A. Not that I recall. 17 Q. You told me earlier that your 18 recollection of the January 29th meeting is you were 19 told things were not good in the fire department, 20 unprofessional, complaints by a subordinate employee 21 not handled, and that there was mismanagement. Do you 22 recall telling me that? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Anything else Specifically that you know 25 of or were told regarding what the allegations were Freedom Court Reporting, Inc 877-373?3660 Case 3:16-cv-00697-RV-CJK Document 33-3 Filed 04/17/18 Page 25 of 47 Ashton J. Hayward 1 A. I have no idea. 2 MR. LARKIN: Same objection. 3 Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) And you never asked? 4 A. No. 5 Q. Let's talk about -- 6 7 MR. CALAMUSA: water. Yeah, let's get your I apologize. 8 9 MR. LARKIN: Let's take a five-minute break. 10 MR. CALAMUSA: 11 (Break in proceedings.) 12 61 Q. Okay. 13 (By Mr. Calamusa) Mister... You mentioned that you looked at some 14 documents to prepare, and one of the documents was the 15 termination letter. Do you recall that? 16 A. Yes, sir. 17 Q. My understanding is that Deputy Chief 18 Glover was terminated through a letter from you dated 19 May 10, 2016. Does that sound right? 20 A. Yes, sir. 21 Q. And that Chief Schmitt was terminated by 22 you through a letter from you also dated May 10, 2016, 23 correct? 24 A. Yes, sir. 25 Q. Did you meet with either of these Freedom Court Reporting, Inc 877-373-3660 Case Document 33-3 Filed 04/17/18 Page 26 of 47 Ashton J. Hayward 62 1 individuals to discuss the allegations, the report, 2 the findings, or your decision to terminate? Roll it 3 all into one to speed it up. 4 A. No, sir. 5 Q. Who made the decision to terminate 6 Glover's employment? I did. 8 Q. And who made the decision to terminate 9 Mr. Schmitt's employment? _10 .A. I did. 11 Q. And who else was involved in the 12 decisions? 13 MR. LARKIN: Object to the form. 14 A. It was recommended to me after the '15 report. 16 Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) Who recommended it to 17 you? 18 A. Eric, Rob. 19 Q. Anybody else? 20 A. -I don't remember. 21 Q. What about Sisson, was he involved in 22 the discussions? 23 A. I don't remembermeeting that you all had 25 together? And I?ll say "together" you, Rob, and Freedom Court Reporting, Inc 877?373-3660 Case Document 33-3 Filed 04/17/18 Page 27 of 47 Ashton J. Hayward 63 1 Eric or was it a meeting, one with Rob, one with 2 Eric? 3 A. I don't remember. 4 Q. So the recommendation was made to 5 terminate. Did you consult with anyone else other 6 than those two? 7 A. No, sir. 8 Q. Did you consult with Mr. Van Sickle at 9 all? 10 A. I don't remember. 11 Q. -Upon receiving his report, did you have 12 any discussions with Mr. Van Sickle about the 13 substance of his report or his findings? 14 A. I don't remember. 15 Q. - Did you seek any advice from Mr. Van 16 Sickle as to_his report or recommendations or what you 17 should do? 18 A. I don't remember. 19 Q. Do you know when the decision was made? 20 A. I don't recall. 21 Q. Do you know when the recommendation was 22 made to terminate? I 23 A. I don't recall. 24 Q. Was the decision made to terminate 25 well, the letters of termination were isSued May l0, Freedom Court Reporting, Inc 877?373-3660 Case Document 33-3 Filed 04/17/18 Page 28 of 47 Ashton J. Hayward 65 1 Q. Can you give me the reason for 2 terminating Mr. Glover after 27 years with the 3 department? 4 A. The findings in the report. 5 Q. Can you tell me which findings in the 6 report? 7 A. It's been awhile since I read the 8 report. I can't remember exactly what's in there. 9 Q. You would agree with me that Mr. Van 10 Sickle investigated a number of issues that were 11 alleged by Mr. Sisson, right? 12 MR. LARKIN: Object to the form. 13 A. I know Mr. Van Sickle did an 14 investigation. 15 Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) Yes, sir. And you 16 do you agree with me that the allegations that were in 17 the February 11. 2016, letter. that many of those 18 allegations were deemed to be unfounded? 19 MR. LARKIN: Object to the form. 20 Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) Look at Exhibit 1. 21 Well, do you know that I?m sorry. He 22 objected and you didn't answer. 23 That many of those allegations set forth 24 in Exhibits 1 and 2 were found by Mr. Van Sickle to be 25 unfounded? Freedom Court Reporting, Inc 877-373-3660 Case Document 33-3 Filed 04/17/18 Page 29 of 47 Ashton J. Hayward 67 1 MR. LARKIN: Just for the record, it was 2 almost two years ago. 3 MR. CALAMUSA: About a year and a half. 4 We're close. I'll split the difference with 5 you. 6 MR. LARKIN: All right. Fair enough. 7 I Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) Take a look at that 8 allegation. 9 We might as well try it this way, 10 Mr. Mayor. 11 Who let me ask you this: Who, Within 12 the fire department, is reaponsible for hiring? 13 . A. Who is responsible for hiring fire 14 department? I think it's a collaboration between the 15 Chief and his team and HR. 16 Q. And who is ultimately responsible to 17 for the hiring process Within the department? 18 A. I don't recall. 19 Q. Is it your interim_Deputy Chief Glover? 20 Is he ultimately responsible for the hiring process? 21 A. They are responsible for hiring people. 22 They have a part ultimately responsible? Is 24 it Schmitt? Is it Glover? Is it your battalion 25 chiefs? Is it Jester? Is it going down the line. Freedom Court Reporting, Inc I 877-373?3660 Case Document 33-3 Filed 04/17/18 Page 30 of 47 Ashton J. Hayward 68 A. I don?t recall. 2 Q. So you don't even know who is 3 responsible for the hiring process in the department? 4 MR. LARKIN: Object to the form. 5 A. I believe that the chief, the deputy 6 chief it's a team and HR. 7 Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) What's the deputy 8 chief's role in the hiring process? 9 . A. I don't know. .10 Q. Then how can you say he's part of it if 11 you don't know? 12 A. I assume that. 13 Q. So you're assuming. You don't have any 14 idea who is responsible for the hiring process in the 15 fire department, do you? 16 A. I believe it's the chief, the deputy l7 chief, and it's a collaboration. 18 What is the deputy chief's role? 19 A. In the hiring practice? 20 Q. Yes. I 21 A. I assume that he would interview peOple 22 with the chief. 23 Q. Anything else? 24 A. No, sir. 25 Q. Are you aware of the deputy chief being Freedom Court Reporting, Inc 877?373?3660 Case Document 33-3 Filed 04/17/18 Page 31 of 47 Ashton J. Hayward 69 1 responsible for any other phase of the hiring proCess? 2 A. No, sirdid you terminate 4 Mr. Glover for attempting to conduct a hiring process 5 for new firefighters in a manner contrary to 6 established protocol? 7 A. I don't recall. 8 Q. What is the established protocol? 9 A. I don?t know. 10 Q. Then how can you make a decision as to -11 whether or not to terminate them for violating such we 12 MR. LARKIN: Object to the form. 13 Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) if you don't know 14 the process? 15 MR. LARKIN: Same objection. 16 A. I don't recall. 17 Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) Do you know if the 18 hiring protecols are written anywhere? 19 A. I don't recall. 20 Q. Do you know anything about the hiring 21 protocol, which they allege which was alleged that 22 they attempted to hire in a manner contrary to? 23 A. I don't recall. 24 Q. Under this it says here, "Failing to 25 notify HR of the date of the physical abilities test." Freedom Court Reporting, Inc 877-373?3660 Case Document 33-3 Filed 04/17/18 Page 32 of 47 Ashton J. Hayward . 7protocol and procedures? MR. LARKIN: Object to the form. A. No, sir. Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) Was anyone in HR disciplined, reprimanded, placed on leave, suSpended, demoted, terminated for failing to follow policy? A. I don't recall. Q. Why were these gentlemen terminated then He MR. LARKIN: Object to the form. Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) if HR wasn't and if Mr. Jester wasn't disciplined for his violations? MR. LARKIN: Same objection. A. I don't recall. Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) Do you know a department head named Brian Cooper? A. Yes. Q. Are you aware of any investigation into Mr. Cooper's hiring practices? A. I don't recall. Q. Can you tell me why Mr. Cooper was not terminated for violating hiring practices, proper A. I don't recall. Q. Are you aware that Mr. Cooper violated proper protocol and hiring procedures on two separate Freedom Court Reporting, Inc . 877?373?3660 Case Document 33-3 Filed 04/17/18 Page 33 of 47 Ashton J. Hayward 78 1 occasions? 2 A. I don't recall. 3 Q. Are you aware that Mr. Cooper was given 4 a verbal warning on one occasion regarding violating 5 proper protocol and procedure? 6 A. I don?t recall. I Q. Why was Mr. Schmitt or Mr. Glover not 8 given a verbal reprimand for violating protocol 9 similar to Mr. Cooper? 10 A. I don't recall. 11 MR. LARKIN: Object to the form. 12 Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) Why was Mr. Cooper 13 the second time Mr. Cooper violated proper protocol 14 and procedure, was he given a written reprimand? 15 A. I don't recall. 16 Q. Can you tell me why Mr. Cooper was given 17 a written reprimand for violating proper protocol and 18 procedure regarding hiring when he violated a second 19 time and he was not fired? 20 A. I don't recall. 21 I Q. Can you tell me why Chief Schmitt and 22 Chief Glover, whom you've already told me you had no 23 problems with prior to the filing of their EEOC 24 charges 25 MR. LARKIN: Object to the form. Freedom Court Reporting, Inc I 877-373?3660 Case Document 33-3 Filed 04/17/18 Page 34 of 47 Ashton J. Hayward 80 A. I don't remember. 2 Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) Did you terminate 3 Deputy Chief Glover for demoting and reducing the pay 4 of Deas? 5 MR. LARKIN: Same objection. 6 A. I don't remember. 7 Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) Did you demote I?m 8 sorry. Did you terminate Glover for attempting to 9 'coerce or intimidate a subordinate firefighter into 10 writing a letter for the Pensacola United Firefighters 11 Association in July of 2015? 12 MR. LARKIN: Object to the form. 13 A. I don't remember. 14 Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) Do you know the 15 findings as to either of these allegations? 16 A. I don't remember. 17 Q. Let's let me ask you this, Mayor: Do 18 you agree that Deas was never demoted and never 19 lost any pay,r was he? 20 . MR. LARKIN: Object to the form. 21- A.- I don't recall. 22 Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) Sir, you made a 23 decision to terminate. Was this one of the issues? 24 A. I don't recall. It could be in the 25 report. I don't recall. Freedom Court Reporting, Inc 8779373?3660 Case Document 33-3 Filed 04/17/18 Page 35 of 47 Ashton J. Hayward 81 1 Q. There is a lot of stuff in the report. 2 A. I 3 Q. Stuff that exonerates them. 4 A. I haven't read that report in a long 5 time. Rocco, I haven't read it in a long time. 6 Q. I understand, but you made a decision to 7 terminate two long?term employees, and I'm trying to 8 find out why 9 MR. LARKIN: Object to the form. 10 Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) what the specifics 11 were that led to your decision. 12 MR. LARKIN: Same objection. 13 Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) And sitting here 14 todayr you tell me you don't remember one way or the 15 other whether any of this Deas DHEHAHS any of 16 this Deas mess mattered? 17 MR. LARKIN: Object to the form. 18_ A. The Deas report was I read the 19 report. I don't remember what was in the report. I 20 know Deas was a part of this, you know. 21 Q. (By Mr. Calamusa} Was that one of the 22 reasons you terminated him? For demoting or reducing 23 the pay of Deas? 24 MR. LARKIN: Object to the form. 25 A. I don't recall. Freedom Court Reporting, Inc 877-373-3660 Case Document 33-3 Filed 04/17/18 Page 36 of 47 Ashton J. Hayward . 89 1 Q. Well, Mr. Van Sickle found that the '2 issuance of the written reprimand to Deas was 3 retaliatory. Do you recall that? 4 A. I don't recall. 5 Q. Did you terminate either one of these 6 individuals, Glover or Sohmitt, for retaliating 7 against Mr. Deas? 8 A. I don't recall was what in the report. 9 I haven't read it in two years. 10 Q. Did you terminate them for retaliating 11. againSt Mr. Bees? 12 MR. LARKIN: Object to the form. Asked 13 and answered. 14 Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) Yes or no. 15 - MR. LARKIN: Object to the form. Asked 16 and answered. 17 Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) Go ahead. 18 MR. LARKIN: He already answered. 19 MR. CALAMUSA: I'm going to ask him one 20 more time and then we'll move on. 21 I Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) Did you terminate 22 Mr. Schmitt 23 MR. CALAMUSA: And I'm going to take it 24 separately just because we've got separate 25 cases. Freedom Court Reporting. Inc 877-373?3660 Case Document 33-3 Filed 04/17/18 Page 37 of 47 Ashton J. Hayward 90 1 MR. LARKIN: You can combine them. He's 2 already answered it. 3 Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) Did you terminate 4 Mr. Schmitt and Mr. Glover for retaliating against 5 Bees? 6 A. I don't recall. 7 Q. Did you discipline Mr. Olson for 8 retaliating against Mr. Deas? 9 MR. LARKIN: Object to the form. 10 A. We don't retaliate. ll . Q. (By Mr. Calamusa)er. Van Sickle, did 12 you ww are you aware that Mr. Van Sickle found that 13 the written reprimand 14 A. If it was in the report, it was in the 15 reportthe report that issuing 17 this written reprimand was retaliation, did you take 18 action based on that finding? 19 MR. LARKIN: Object to the form. Asked 20 I and answered(By Mr..Calamusa) Yes, sir. Did you 23 take action based on Mr. Van Sickle's finding that the 24 -issuance of the written reprimand was retaliatory? 25 MR. LARKIN: Objection. Asked and Freedom Court Reporting, Inc 877?373?3660 Case Document 33-3 Filed 04/17/18 Page 38 of 47 Ashton J. Hayward 91 1 answered. 2' A. I don't recall. 3 Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) And sitting here, you 4 don't recall, but it's the fact is, you never 5 counseled or disciplined Sisson or Olson for their 6 involvement in the Deas matter? 7 A. I don't recall. 8_ Q. So you might have? 9 MR. LARKIN: Object to the form. 10 A. I don't recall. 11 (By Mr. Calamusa) Issue No. 3 in both 12 letters are the same. Did you terminate Chief Schmitt 13 for failing to address in a timely manner the 14 battalion chief pay raise requests in the latter half 15 of 2015 and into 2016? 16 A. I don't recall. 1? Q. Did you terminate chief Deputy Chief 18 Glover for failing to address in a timely manner the 19 battalion chief pay raise requests in the latter half 20 of '15 and '16? 21 A. I don't recall. 22 Q. When did you learn of this allegation? 23 A. - I don't remember. 24 Q. Who told you of this allegation? 25 MR. LARKIN: Object to the form. Freedom Court Reporting, Inc 877-373?3660 Case Document 33-3 Filed 04/17/18 Page 39 of 47 Ashton J. Hayward . 92 A. I don't recall. 2 Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) Did you discipline 3 Mr. Olson for his conduct related to the battalion 4 chief pay raises? 5 A. I don't recall. 6 Q. Did you discipline Mr. Olson I?m 7 sorry Mr. Sisson for his conduct related to the 8 battalion chief pay raises? 9 A. I don't recall. 10 Q. What would help refresh your 11 recollection about any of this, I'm saying? 12 MR. LARKIN: Object to the form. Asked 13 and answered. 14 A. I don't know. 15 Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) Is there anything 16 there that would help you determine whether or not you 17 disciplined Olson or Sisson for the battalion chief 18 raises or for the Deas matter? 19 A. I don't know. 20 I Q. Well. I've been given their files, and 21 there is no discipline in their files regarding any of 22 this. Is that the best place to look as to whether or 23 not there would be discipline? 24 MR. LARKIN: Object to the form. 25 A. I don't know. Freedom Court Reporting, Inc 877-373?3660 Case Document 33-3 Filed 04/17/18 Page 40 of 47 Ashton J. Hayward 96 A. I don?t recall. 2 Q, (By Mr. Calamusa) Was Olson reprimanded 3 for failing to notify Schmitt of the amount of money 4 allocated when he notified the other department heads? 5 A. I don't recall. 6 Q. Did you recall that Van Sickle's finding 7 was that Schmitt and Glover were not at fault here, 8 that there was blame to go around? 9 MR. LARKIN: Object to the form. .10 .J gsA. I don't recall. 11 Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) And you don't recall 12 whether or not this was even a ground that you used to 13 terminate them? 14 A. I don't recall. 15 Q. Look at Exhibit 2. 16 Looking at Exhibit 2, which is Glover's 17 February 11, 2016, letter we I'm_looking at issue 18 No. 4. Did you terminate Mr. Glover for mismanagement 19 of the fire apprenticeship program_and rental of a .20 BMW 5 series vehicle? 21 A. I don't recall. 22 Q. Do you recall what the findings were in 23 regards to this issue? 24 A. No, sir. 25 Q. Do you recall that the findings were Freedom Court Reporting, Inc 877-373-3660 Case Document 33-3 Filed 04/17/18 Page 41 of 47 Ashton J. Hayward 97 1 there was no wrongdoing on the part of Glover as to 2 any of this? 3 MR. LARKIN: Object to the form. 4 A. 1 don't recall. 5 Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) If there was no 6 wrongdoing, did you terminate him for this reason? 7 MR. LARKIN: Object to the form. 8 A. I don't recall. 9 Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) So you might have? 10 MR. LARKIN: Same objection. 11 Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) Right? You just don't 12 remember? 13 MR. LARKIN: Same Objection. 14 A. NoJr sir. I 15 . Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) Do you know when these 16 allegations of well, it says right here 2015, 17 doesn't it, in issue 4? 18 A. Yes, sir. 19 Q. Can you tell me why none of the alleged 20 allegations, which were found to be untrue, were 21 investigated since they took place in 2015? 22 A. No, sir. 23 MR. LARKIN: Object to the form. 24 Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) Can you tell me why it 25 was that those investigations did not take place until Freedom Court Reporting, Inc 8776736660 Case Document 33-3 Filed 04/17/18 Page 42 of 47 Ashton J. Hayward 98 1 after the gentlemen's both Schmitt and Glover filed 2 their EEOC charges? 3 MR. LARKIN: Object to the form. 4 A. No, sir. 5 Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) Looking at issue 5, 6 did you terminate Mr. Glover for comments made during 7 a firefighters annual awards ceremony? 8 A. I don't recall. 9 Q. Do you recall that the finding was no 10 wrongdoing we there was no wrongdoing on the part of l1 Mr. Glover, that he did not mention the HR department 12 or Sisson? 13 A. I don't recall. 14 Q. Do you know when this incident took 16 A. No, sir. l7 - Q. But and you can't tell me if this was 18 one of the reasons you fired him? 19 A. No, sir. No. 5? 20 Q. YeahNow, let's go back to Brian Cooper. Are 23 you aware of some derogatory comments Mr. Cooper made 24 about you? 25 A. No, sir. Freedom Court Reporting, Inc 877-373?3660 Case Document 33-3 Filed 04/17/18 Page 43 of 47 Ashton J. Hayward 99 1 Q. You have no knowledge of this? 2 .A. No. 3 Q. Are you aware that he was given a 4 written reprimand as part of a second-Violation of 5 hiring protocol and included insubordination regarding 6 derogatory comments he made in public about you? 7 A. NO. 8 Q. Can you tell me why he wasn?t 9 terminated? 10 MR. LARKIN: Object to the form. 11 A. I don?t recall. I don't know about 12 that. 13 Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) Issue No. 6, there is 14 an allegation that Glover unreasonably resisted a drug 15 test request on January 20, 2016. Do you know the 16 substance of that? A. No, sir. 18 Q. Was that one of the reasons you 19 terminated him? 20 A. I don't recall. 21 Q. So it could be; you just don't remember? 22 I MR. LARKIN: Object to the form. 23 A. I don?t recall. 24 Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) And No. 5, issue 5 for 25 Glover, could be a reason for termination, you just Freedom Court Reporting, Inc 877673?3660 Case Document 33-3 Filed 04/17/18 Page 44 of 47 Ashton J. Hayward 100 1 don't remember? 2 MR. LARKIN: Same objection. 3 A. I don't recall. 4 Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) Issue 4 could be a 5 reason for termination, you just don't remember? 6 MR. LARKIN: Same objection. 7 A. I don't recall. 8 Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) Issue 3 could be a 9 reason for termination, you just don't remember? 10 MR. LARKIN: Same objection. 11 . A. I don't recall. 12 Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) Issue 2 could be a 13 reason, you just don't remember? 14 MR. LARKIN: Same objection. 15 A. I don't recall. 16 Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) Issue 1 could be a 17 reason for termination, you just don't remember? 18 . MR. LARKIN: Same objection. 19 A. I don't recall. 20 Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) And as to Schmitt's 21 letter, issue 1 could be a reason for termination, you 22 just don't recall? 23 A. I don't recall. 24 MR. LARKIN: Same objection. 25 Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) Issue 2 could be, you Freedom Court Reporting, Inc I 877-373-3660 Case Document 33-3 Filed 04/17/18 Page 45 of 47 Ashton J. Hayward 101 1 just don't recall? 2 A. Right. 3 Q. And Issue 3, even though it was 4 unfounded, could be, you just don't recall? 5 MR. LARKIN: Object to the form. 6 A. I don't recall. 7 Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) Going back to Glover, 8 issue 3, even though it was unfounded, could have been 9 a reason 10 MR. LARKIN: Same objection 11 Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) correct? You don't 12 recall? 13 A. I don't recall. 14 Q. Issue 4, even though it was unfounded, 15 could have been a reason? 16 MR. LARKIN: Same objection. Asked and 17 answered. 18 A. I don?t recall. 19 Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) Issue 5, even though 20 unfounded, could be a reason? 21 MR. LARKIN: Object to the form. 22 A. I don't recall. 23 Q. (By Mr. Calamusa) Issue 6, even though 24 unfounded, could be a reason? 25 MR. LARKIN: Object to the form. Freedom Court Reporting, Inc 877-373-3660 Case Document 33-3 Filed 04/17/18 Page 46 of 47 Ashton J. Hayward 115 CERTIFICATE OF OATH STATE OF FLORIDA COUNTY OF SANTA ROSA I, the undersigned authority, certify that ASHTON JAMES HAYWARD appeared before me and was duly fsworn. WITNESS my hand and official seal this 2nd day of January, 2018. MARY ELLEN THURSBY, RPR Notary Public, State of Florida My Commission No: 142026 Expires October 4, 2021 Freedom Court Reporting, Inc 877?373?3660 Case Document 33-3 Filed 04/17/18 Page 47 of 47 Ashton J. Hayward 116 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER STATE OF FLORIDA COUNTY OF SANTA ROSA I, MARY ELLEN THURSBY, Registered Professional Reporter and Notary Public, certify that I was authorized to and did transcribe the foregoing deposition; and that the transcript is a true and complete record of the statements given by the witness and transcribed by me. I further certify that I am not a relative, employee, attorney, or counsel of any of the parties, nor am I a relative or employee of any of the parties' attorneys or counsel connected with the action, nor am I financially interested in the action. Dated this 2nd day of January, 2018. MARY ELLEN THURSBY, RPR Notary Public, State of Florida My Commission No: 142026 Expires October 4, 2021 Freedom Court Reporting, Inc 877-373-3660