Con?dential 11.29.18 quft Transcription of Phone Call with Assistant District Attorney, Mindy Montford: Dawn: Hello? Mindy: Hey stranger. Dawn: Hey, how are you? Mindy: I?m good. How are you? Dawn: I?m good. I know you?re busy all the time. I really appreciate you calling me. Mindy: Oh my gosh, that was so, did you know I was here, because I saw an email that came across that just said, um, concerned citizen, and it had, it said Dawn McCracken, and then it had your area code and number, and I was like, _and then the next, Iwas like, you know, that?s my former sister in law. And Dawn: Oh, that?s so ?mny. Mindy: And then they called over and they?re like, no now she called for you. Iwas, like, but, so I wasn?t sure if you knew I was over here or if that was just random? Dawn: No, I didn?t. Well, I?m just now sure how it works, is the answer. I don?t really know anything about anything is the answer to that question. So, yeah. Mindy: Well, I?m glad that it worked out because, um, I can probably clear up some confusion on this. Urn, and I actually staffed this case, so it?s really random that you called, because they brought this case to my attention in a really weird way 888888001530 21443817.] 1 Con?dential 11.29.18 Draft Mindy: Yeah. Saying no one?s called us, no one?s updated us, you know, and I said well that?s ridiculous, let me look into it. So, when I called over, um, I talked to the detective and then the prosecutor on the case and kind of got more of the story, and then they just kept bringing me in the loop every time they would go, you know, follow up on something, and then they came back, and then I am the one who said said I don?t, I donguilty verdict on this in front of a jury. Which is always our analysis let me just tell you. Um, you know, we have to look at it from whether we can make a case beyond a reasonable doubt, and it?s just a very cerebral way, not an emotional way. A lot of times we may think, you know, this person?s guilty, but we don?t, we can?t, you know, we?ve just done these for so many years and so long we know what juries say and juries are not always reasonable. Um, and you know, rather than put the victim through all that a lot of times you tell her early on, like, this is what you?re going to face, now, and I?m going to go through everything with you, but let me tell you, I in looking at the notes I?m not sure the detective, and I don?t know the detective but I?m not sure he had the best bedside manners. Dawn: Oh my gosh, Mindy, you know what, really truly. Ok, well I?ll give you the lowdown here. daughter Emily, is the most darling sweet, I mean just, she?s just the sweetest girl. Mindy: Right. Dawn: And so I had heard about this, and 338338001530 214433171 2 Con?dential 11.29.18 quft Mindy: Dawn: Right. Anyway, I didn?t even ?nd out about any of this, I kind of just heard that she had been assaulted, and I left a letter for Sarah and I just said I?m just so, so sorry, and I didn?t even know what had happened. Mindy: Dawn: Right. But, uh, but when I found out about it I I sent her that letter, and then Sarah called me some days later and just said you know, thank you for the note, it really meant a lot. And then she just kind of, she just, she really just broke down, and I mean, like, just the pain in her voice, there was just no way for me not to, like, envision how it Mindy: Do something. Right. And it?s every parent?s nightmare. I mean, it is. 888888.001530 21443817.l Con?dential 11.29.18 Draft Dawn: Right. But, then when I was talking to Sarah, what I was going to say is that the the detective, Dennis Goddard, he was just so not good with her. Mindy: Yeah. And I don?t know him. Um, but the prosecutor Dawn: I don?t either, obviously. Mindy: The prosecutor veri?ed that he is not exactly the best. He?s a good detective, but he?s not good at communicating. And I said well, you know, maybe in these situations we ought to have the prosecutor reach out or the, normally you?re supposed to do the victim witness counselor, I don?t know if that was done in this case because it Dawn: I don?t either. Mindy: It never even got to our of?ce. Dawn: Yeah. Mindy: So it would have been the APD counselor, but nevertheless it should have been handled better on the back end. Urn, like, for example, I talked to David Bryant and probably gave him more information than the daughter gave the family, you know. Dawn: Oh, I?m sure he had been, he really has not been good to them or for them. Mindy: Well, let me tell you kind of, ok, so here?s the situation. And there?s so much here Dawn, I hate to, like, you know, give you too much information that you don?t want, but when we came on board in his of?ce, Margaret Moore, the DA, did not rehire about I mean, a few prosecutors, but two of them were super involved in, um, sexual assault and assault family violence cases. Dawn: Right. 888888.001530 21443817.] 4 Con?dential 11.29.18 Draft Mindy: They have since turned around and just, like, fought us every step of the way and and put out, in my opinion, and I know these people, so I can tell you that I?m friends with them and, um, I don?t have an axe to grind with them. But, I don?t like the way they?ve disseminated misinformation because it puts people in this, like, fear mode that?s unnecessary in my opinion. Um, but now they?ve gone around and they?ve basically gotten various victims whose cases we couldn?t prosecute to join a lawsuit. So, they?re suing us, and we?re pretty con?dent that that?s not going to go forward and have legs, but because they?ve done that and this case is one of the people in the lawsuit, um, and so here we are, and, um, now that they?ve done that, we can?t really share information because we?re being sued, so Dawn: Right. Mindy: Our lawyers now are telling us you can?t communicate about sexual assault, you can?t do anything until the lawsuit?s dismissed. Dawn: Right. Mindy: So, that?s I?m telling you that because I, and hang on one second, (inaudible) ok, that sounds good, okay (inaudible). Can you tell him this is probably, I?m going to be on the phone for just a little bit so I can ?nd him after? Mindy: Um, ok, so, um, I would not give what I?m about to give to you to anybody, just anybody. I?m doing it, we go so far back, so I?m going to give you the nuts and bolts of this, but just know I?m not really supposed to be talking about this stuff publically, so if you could keep it, kind of for your information Dawn: Yeah. Mindy: And then if you need to talk to the family and tell them that you talked to me I would just appreciate if you kept in, like, general terms. 888888.001530 21443817.1 5 Con?dential 11.29.18 Dra? Dawn: Yes. Mindy: Plus, because I think they would be morti?ed about some of this stuff about their daughter, so I don?t want, um, I don?t want to hurt them any more than they?ve already been hurt, but, urn, anyway, because it?s you I?m going to tell you kind of the nuts and bolts of it. Um, so you knew what we were up against. Dawn: Right. Mindy: So this case came in, and I?ve got all my notes here from, I just, uh, reviewed it yesterday. Alright, so she is apparently in an Uber with her boyfriend. Dawn: Right. Mindy: And I don?t remember, there?s some ?ght they have, and it?s, it?s really weird Dawn, like they end up not in an Uber but, like, somehow they get into this other car, is picking them up, and they?re like hey we?re going downtown, yeah we?ll give you a ride. They don?t even know these people. They get in, according to the boyfriend, she?s ?irting with one of the passengers, with the passenger in the front seat, and it pisses him off so they have a ?ght. He ends up leaving. She is now with these two guys. Dawn: Right. Mindy: They end up going to some sort of motel where the guys are staying, and they?re, like, well, um, you can come back and party with us or something, and I?m paraphrasing, I?m not sure how the conversation went, it?s not important. They get there, and Dawn: But wait, who?s talking, is this from the boyfriend?s point of View or something? 888888001530 21443817.1 6 Con?dential 11.29.18 Dra? Mindy: Well this is from the detective, so in other words, all the statements combined, this is what we?ve gathered happened. Dawn: That same th the detective, did he get that from the boyfriend, or Mindy: He got some of it from the boyfriend, he got some of it from her, he got some of it from the driver, and some of it from the passenger. Dawn: Right. Mindy: Um, so, it?s like he?s interviewed all these people, and at the end of the day, this is what they?re bringing us, 0k? Dawn: Right. Mindy: Um, like the evidence will show XY and Z. Um, so what, what they?re saying happened according to what their investigation revealed, she goes into one hotel room with the passenger. And they?re all drinking apparently, of course, you know how that goes. So, you?re all drinking, but then this is where it gets weird, so he says that, he says they have consensual sex, but he can?t really get erect so it kind of, like, ?ails, and they just sort of give up on it. She then leaves, and the, the driver is sitting outside the hotel rooms and sees her come out. There?s also hotel video that shows her coming out of that room and then going into this other room. Well, the other room is like some third person who was with all these guys but not in the car, like, so he?s kind of with them, I think they?re here for some conference or something. She then goes into that guy?s room, and they end up having sex, and they?re, they?re in the shower, they have sex, they?re drinking. We see her come out of that room on the video, and she?s not upset, doesn?t appear to be upset, she then goes and talks to the front desk according to her statement, she goes to the front desk and says I was sexually assaulted. When we interviewed the 888888.001530 214438111 7 Con?dential 11.29.18 Dra? front desk people they don?t remember that. They don?t have any, none, none of them could remember her doing that. Um, she then goes across the street and reports it as a rape at, like, that convenience store or wherever she went across the street, they call 911. Urn, the detective, so the detective interviews all these people. The driver and the passenger give swabs, uh, consensually, you know, like, hey yes take my DNA. Also, they go in and get a swab from the guy, that, that third guy. Dawn: Right. Mindy: When she was drinking, and then there was a shower and sex, he consents. So, you know, he says we had we did have consensual sex, and I?m happy to give you my swab. So, everybody cooperates in that regard. They rush the DNA. Oh, she also claims that there was strangulation Dawn: Right. Mindy: By the so, what she?s saying happened is that the guy in the ?rst room sexually assaulted her. She admits she had consensual sex with the guy in the second room, with the shower and all that. She tells the detective I had sex with him and it was consensual. So she?s, her, she?s saying the guy in the ?rst room who was the passenger in that car originally, is the one who raped her, and then, she also says he strangled her. Um, they go get a second interview from the victim because the ?rst time she was still kind of intoxicated, I mean, you know, she was still, she?s tired, she?s, um, you know, she?s under the stress of everything that happened, so they decide let?s go back now that she had sleep and showered and let?s get another interview. Her second interview is very inconsistent with the ?rst. It?s all over the place. Um, and her timeline?s a little weird, but at the end of the day, they go and they get the DNA from the rape kit that was done, and there?s only one, the presence of DNA from one male, and it?s the guy that she says was 888888001530 21443817.] 8 Con?dential 11.29.18 Dra? consensual. So the guy next door, his DNA is found in her rape kit, ok? But, that?s the guy who she says it was consensual, he says it was consensual, there?s not a rape there. The other guy, the passenger, there?s no DNA. His DNA is not found. Dawn: Right. Mindy: Um, and the strangulation piece, um, she?s got a little mark on her neck, but that?s it. Now, I?m not saying that can?t still be a sign of strangulation, but usually, I mean these cases always are different, but generally you?re going to see a little bit different injuries for strangulation, including, urn, your eyes have some markings that um, called petechiae. Dawn: Right. Mindy: You kind of see that and we don?t have any of that. Which, that?s okay, we prosecute strangulation cases without any physical injuries. Um, but the main thing was what do we do because if you believe the story and I?m not saying this is not made up, this is made up but if you believe her version of what happened, then you have to believe the rape happens in that one room, and then she goes and after the rape, has consensual sex with another guy. Dawn: Right. Mindy: So that doesn?t, I mean Dawn: Well Mindy: I?m not saying there?s a right or wrong way to act after you?ve been assaulted, but Dawn: No, I totally, you know, it?s interesting to hear it from you because obviously this is the story that you?ve gotten from Dennis Goddard. Mindy: Well, and from the prosecutor. Dawn: And from the prosecutor. 888888001530 21443817.1 9 Con?dential 11.29.18 Draft Mindy: She?s gone through and researched it. Dawn: Well, but I?m wondering if the weak link in all this, because a lot of the stuff that I?m I?m hearing from you was different than what, you know, I I heard from Mindy: Sure. Dawn: From Sarah, and you know really her problem was, she was saying the whole time that he was, that the detective was very dismissive and belittling, and you know Mindy: Well, that?s not good. Dawn: Like, I know when he, like, said he was going to do the, the second interview, he had told her something about it would be in a, you know, in a room where it wouldn?t be, like, where there would be windows and a door you know, where it wouldn?t be like an interrogation room where she wouldn?t feel boxed in like that. But, then when he did the interview he did take her into the, urn, like an interrogation room, you know what I mean, like Mindy: Mm. hmm. Mm. hmm. Like, she?s accused, like she?s the suspect. Dawn: Right, and I mean obviously, you know, from my perspective all, all I have is, you know, my darling friend who this has happened to her daughter, and I?m just like. I mean, Mindy, I cannot tell you that, that kind of pain in her voice, just it just shook me. And, it really all I had, I was like I, you know, I felt so helpless and just so, like, unable to, like, even absorb what happened. I was, like, the only person I know that would know anything about any of this is Mindy Montfort, and I didn?t I didn?t even tell her that. I didn?t tell her, I didn?t tell Kevin or anyone. I was, like, you know what, I?ll just call Mindy on a whim and 888888.00153021443817.1 10 Con?dential 11.29.18 Draft see if she?ll talk to me about it. And you?re ?you?re really so sweet to do this Mindy, it really does mean a lot. Mindy: Oh, I?m happy to because look, I I feel her pain. I mean, God you know, I that?s a parent?s worst nightmare. Dawn: It is. That?s right, that was what I was, I was, like, this is literally my worst nightmare. But honestly from, from talking to you it, it sounds like the detective was, I I don?t, you know, like I said I?m not in any position, like, legally to know how any of this stuff works. You are, but what I heard did not match. Mindy: What you heard, and, and let me tell you this. Um, I don?t know, I never had any communication with the family. I do know the prosecutor has reviewed this independently, so it?s not like she?s relying on what Goddard? telling her. Like, she?s looked at the statements. Urn, the hotel surveillance video is documented, but by the time they went back and got it, the hotel had already recorded over it, but I think one of the initial prosecutors actually sat there and watched it with the detective, so all of this stuff is corroborated. Um, the DNA, all of that, she?s looked at everything. Um, what I don?t know, Dawn Dawn: Did they take evidence or anything from the room or things like that? Mindy: Um, I don?t know if they collected, you see they wouldn?t have done that in the second room because once both parties say it?s consensual they?re not going to take any evidence out of that, other than his DNA. Um, on the ?rst room, I don?t know that, I could ?nd that out. I don?t remember hearing that in the staf?ng. Um, and you know, that?s a problem we have on a lot of these, um, cases is the defense, whether it?s true or not, they usually say it?s consensual, right? So, in other words, of course you?re going to ?nd my DNA because we had consensual 888888.00153021443817.1 ll Con?dential 11.29.18 Draft sex, so, you know, so the DNA becomes a little bit less signi?cant because he?s going to claim of course my DNA is in there. So, really what you?re stuck with is whether or not she consented to it. And so, sometimes the physical evidence like in the room would be important to show a struggle. Dawn: Right, to show a, a struggle or yeah, just Mindy: But what?s weird, Dawn, is that you still have to get over the hurdle with the jury Dawn: Right. Mindy: Of her leaving that room, which is on video, going to the second room and admittedly having consensual sex after she was just raped. Dawn: Right, Mindy: And, you know Dawn: Well and, and like I said that, that was, that was different than, than what I had understood, you know, Mindy: Yeah. Dawn: And so I?m not sure. Mindy: Well, I don?t know if he explained all of that because sometimes you don?t want to tell, you know, in a way he?s probably trying to protect her to some degree and not share all this with her parents, you know. Um, I don?t know how much he shared. Dawn: Well, no, I yeah. When I, when I talked to Sarah. You know, I?ve talked to her several times, and so really it?s just been kind of, like, when I?m talking to her it?s just been little pieces of this and that here and there Mindy: Right, right. Dawn: That will come out, you know what I mean 888888.001530 21443817.] 12 Con?dential 11.29.18 Draft Mindy: Right. Dawn: And so, like, every time I talk to her, I?ll hear, you know, another part of something that I, I didn?t know before that?s, you know, it?s it?s just hard to absorb the whole thing, you know. Mindy: Yeah. Yeah. And that?s why I wanted to give you all of this stuff I?m not allowed to talk about right now, but I wanted you to have it because you?ve got to have some perspective, right? I mean you?re getting, you?re hearing all this and then you?re like, and then they didn?t prosecute her what the hell? And, you know, so I wanted you to hear the other side of that because we?re not going to put her through a trial when you?re going to have a bunch of assholes on a jury judging her and then coming back and saying not guilty. I mean, I we?re not going to be able to get over that hurdle. Um, the fact that she goes right next door and now, if she was saying it wasn?t consensual, that?s one thing. Dawn: Right. Mindy: But she says it was consensual. Dawn: And, and, and she said it was consensual to who? Dennis Goddard or to the prosecutor or both? Mindy: She gave a statement. So, in both of her statements it was consensual sex in the second room. And, I don?t even think she mentioned that in the ?rst interview, I have to go back and check this, but once they talked to the guy, they got an interview and a swab from him. Dawn: Uh, huh. Mindy. They went back to her and she said, yes that?s true. I don?t remember if that?s if she told it in the ?rst statement, the second or both Dawn: Right. 888888.00153021443817.1 13 Con?dential 11.29.18 Dra? Mindy: But she de?nitely says it was consensual. Um, and then, of course, you have the DNA issue where you?ve got the ?rst, the consensual guy?s DNA and we don?t have any DNA from the ?rst. That?s not, like, if we just had that, it?s not like we wouldn?t prosecute it because sometimes you?re not going to leave DNA, especially if he says he couldn?t make it work. Uhh Dawn: Right. Or, or if they?re just doing other things that aren?t leaving Mindy: That?s exactly right. Dawn: That kind of evidence behind. Mindy: Digital, digital penetration, or something like that, yeah. Although, sometimes you?d still have it with that, but no, yeah, exactly. Um, so when they bring all this to us, I mean we just had, that?s just, you know, when you?re staf?ng these this is the kind of stuff we deal with every day, and of course I don?t know who this person is, right? I mean, I didn?t know that you knew the family. Not that that would have changed it but Dawn: No, no I Mindy: Urn, but, so we staff it and it?s just a very cerebral legal analysis over here, and Dawn: Right, yeah. No, you know, I understand that?s your job, you know, that, that?s what you do every day, you know, and Mindy: But, I don?t think the family has been fairly communicated with from what I?m hearing and sensing. Dawn: Oh, I mean, yeah, like, like really, you know, whenever, whenever I?ve talked with her, Dennis Goddard has really just not been. They didn?t, you know, they didn?t ever feel like he was really taking it seriously 888888001530 21443817.1 14 Con?dential 11.29.18 Draft Mindy: Mm. hmm, mm. hmm. Dawn: Or really invested in, in helping her in any way, um, but Mindy: And you know, and, and that?s the problem, Dawn. 1 mean it?s, like, half the time when I have these conversations with Victims? families, they?re not happy, but they?re like thank you so much for just laying it out and being honest with us. Dawn: Oh, yeah. Mindy: Of course, we?re disappointed but, you know, and I don?t know that they were ever treated that way. I don?t know one way or the other. It sounds like they were not. And, if there wasn?t a damn lawsuit in place and they?re one of the plaintiffs Dawn: Right. Mindy: I?d be sitting down here talking to them right now just like I?m talking with you. Dawn: Right, yeah. Mindy: Um, and by the way, I?m happy to do that after the lawsuit is over. You know, once there?s no exposure on either side, I?m happy to sit down and talk with them. Dawn: Well, yeah and, I mean you know, it?s one of those things where I do, you know, I I have to think that, you know, if you had been able to meet Emily that it would have just been such a different, but I, I know that things are now not in a place where that could happen like that now, but, um Mindy: Well, and I also would be interested if, if I don?t know much they weren?t sharing with the family to protect her. Urn, so I?d be interested in talking to her, you know, in a one-on?one. 888888.001530 21443817.] 15 (.11th @0043 Con?dential 11.29.18 Dra? Dawn: Right. Mindy: And then asking what we could share with the family. Dawn: I see what you?re saying. Mindy: It?s almost better Dawn: Yeah, no I, understand, that really is very delicate, you know. Mindy: Well, it?s almost better to have the family pissed off at us rather than disappointed in her, you know. Dawn: Absolutely. Mindy: And her decisions, like I?d rather take the heat on that all day long. Dawn: Yeah, no I know what you?re saying, it really does. Well, you know, I mean it does help talking to you because I?m, like, you know yeah, for me it doesn?t make sense at all because I don?t, you know, I don?t deal with this all day and, um, you know, you you really are very sweet to call me and talk to me about it. Mindy: Anytime. Dawn: It?s just, it?s just been weighing on my mind, and I wanted, you know Mindy: Sure. Dawn: Mindy: Dawn: him. Mindy: Dawn: 888888.001530 21443817.1 16 LAN Con?dential 11.29.18 qu? Dawn: Well, so part when, when I?m talking to you about some of this stuff I mean, what? If you were me and you?re in this position, Mindy: Mm. hmm. Dawn: You know Mindy: What do you do? Dawn: Yeah, what. I, I really, I?m really struggling with, you know, I want to be help?il and I want to, you know, help her to ?nd some kind of peace on this and then, you know, I don?t know what?s helpful to share, what?s not helpful to share. It?s, you know Mindy: Well, here?s what I would say to that, because I think you have a little bit of cover in that there?s a lawsuit, right? So, I think you can say, you know, that you called me and you heard it from the horse?s mouth, you know, what happened, and that I?ve offered to sit down and talk with them, but I can?t do it while the lawsuit?s pending. Dawn: Right. Mindy: And, I can?t even talk about the case with you. But, that in general terms, we had a conversation. 888888.00153021443817.l 17 Con?dential 11.29.18 Draft Dawn: Right. Mindy: And Dawn: No, I can say this is a personal conversation, not like a business conversation Mindy: Exactly Dawn: You know. Mindy: And, you know, that, that I think the big thing is, I?m willing to share a lot of these details when and if the time is right with them. I, you know, I want to talk to her ?rst, obviously. Dawn: Do, do you think there is any chance that, uh, Dennis Goddard was Mindy: Oh, I?m going to share what you?re telling me with his, um, supervisor for sure. Dawn: Do, do you think there is any chance that some of this stuff that he put in there may have been inaccurate or tilted? Mindy: No, I don?t see him as a according to the prosecutor who, she?s there daily staf?ng these cases, and so she knows all of them. She?s, she is not saying that he?s a bad cop. She?s saying she doesn?t know that he has the best communication skills. And I can see him treating her in a way where she felt not like a victim but more like an accused, and that?s not right, and I think we need to have a little training and, and also talk to the supervisors about how some of these of?cers are dealing with these cases. But, no, I don?t think he is the type of cop that is going to make up something and put it in a report. I mean, because like for example, she has to give a statement and then she gets to review it and then she 888888.001530 21443817.1 18 .Con?dential 11.29.18 Draft signs it like to Say this is accurate. And, a lot of this stuff is recorded, too, at the time. Dawn: Right. Mindy: So I, the the prosecutor has not given me any indication that she thinks something shady went down. Now, if I had a candid conversation with the daughter at some point and she tells me I never said that or I never, you know. Dawn: Right. Mindy: Then we might have an issue. But, I don?t think she?s going to say that because what, what the prosecutor told me is when they told her about the problems with the case, she was not happy but was at peace with it. Kind of like, ok I get it. And then it was the family who started calling and, you know, so I?m not saying she was or wasn?t upset that, you know, that we declined prosecution, but at the time, she was apparently at peace with it is what I was told. And Dawn: Wow. Mindy: I don?t know if, like, the family gets wind of it and they don?t really know all the details, so then of course they?re going to react the way they?ve reacted, which I get. Dawn: Right, yeah. I mean, you know, there?s obviously a lot of, you know, discrepancies there. Mindy: Mm. hmm, mm. hhm. So, the key is probably for me to have a conversation with her at some point one-on-one. Dawn: Yeah, which really Mindy: If she wants to. She may be, like, I?m done, you know. Dawn: Well, you know, I mean after, after this happened, you know, she dropped out of UT. It was her last, you know, it was her last semester there 888888.001530 21443817.] 19 Con?dential 11.29.18 Dra? before she graduates. 888888001530 21443817.1 20 Con?dential 11.29.18 Dra? Mindy: Dawn: Mindy: Dawn: Oh yeah, of course. Well, thanks for talking to me about this, Mindy. I don?t, you know, it?s just it?s just been so sad and heartbreaking for me mal? Mindy: Sure. Dawn: You know, Ijust didn?t know how to even ?nd out more about it, but I really appreciate you, you know, taking the time to discuss it with me and Mindy: Well, any time. I mean, I?m hoping this never happens again where we have to talk like this, but if it ever does, please don?t ever hesitate, you have my cell phone now, so Dawn: Yes. Mindy: You know, and in the process of all this as you?re talking to them, you need follow up, just call me and, um, you know, like I said, I?m happy to sit down with them after that lawsuit?s over. Dawn: Right. Yeah, well I will certainly pass that along. I know they?re, you know, just kind of, just struggling, trying to, you know. I think they?re just trying to get their feet back on the ground and not, um, it?s, it?s just starting to settle in and they?re getting a little bit of normalcy back, you know. Mindy: Sure. Dawn: But, uh, anyway thank you so much for talking to me about it and, you know - Mindy: Absolutely. 888888001530 21443817.1 21 Con?dential 11.29.18 Draft Dawn: I I will call you again if I think of something that I didn?t, you know, ask you about or say something that I meant to because, you know, it?s all just stirring around in my head and, you know, obviously some of that stuff I didn?t expect to hear, and you know. Anyway, it?s just it?s just an awful situation to happen to her or to anybody. Mindy: Oh yeah, I mean you having to watch their pain, you know, and someone you?ve known foreve? Dawn: Yes. Yeah, there?s just Mindy: I get it all day long. Dawn: no way for me not to, like, suddenly just go that could be one of my kids. Mindy: Right. Dawn: Just instantly, you know, getting into like a ride share or whatever, but um Mindy: Right. Dawn: You know. I was going to ask you something else, but I forgot what it was, but anyway, if I do happen to remember it later I will call you Mindy: Let me know. Dawn: or text you or whatever. Mindy: Yeah, for sure. I?m around and, um, don?t be a stranger. Dawn: I won?t. You know, I?m glad to hear that, you know, you?ll be running for DA, yeah? And hopefully Mindy: Shoot, I don?t know. It?s a long time away, but maybe. Dawn: Well, but you know, I really wish there was someone that had more of a you know, because I was just really glad to hear you say that you?re 888888.001530 21443817.] 22 Con?dential 11.29.18 Draft really disappointed that she let a lot of those people go that were part of taking care of the sexual assault cases, you know what I mean? Mindy: Well, and let me be clear. I mean, um, I wasn?t disappointed she let them go. I understood her reasons for it. Dawn: Right. Mindy: I, um, I guess what I was because I don?t want to be disloyal to her. Dawn: Yeah, yeah. Mindy: Um, I think that, um, I have been disappointed in how they?ve reacted to that in, in ways that I don?t think are appropriate for victims, but, um, I understand they?re pissed off. So, you know, they want to they?re dealing with it the way they want to deal with it. I just think they?ve kind of unnecessarily, um, created fear in people, and I don?t, I don?t think they?ve handled things the right way. So, I?ll say that. Dawn: Well, I I get the feeling you w0uld be more aggressive about it. I?d like to think that. Mindy: Yeah, well, Ithink our DA has done a great job, I really do. And I think she?s, um, revamped a lot of the programs where for example, we have these prosecutors over there to staff these cases upfront, you know, so that we?re not, you? now we?re trying to make the best cases we can from day one. Dawn: Yeah. Mindy: And so that ?cause we know what the juries are going to throw at us, and they?re crazy Dawn, they?re insane. We had this one case where it was a stranger rape. And it was a CODIS hit, and CODIS is the database where if you have an unsolved case you put you upload the DNA and so at some point if that 888888001530 21443817.1 23 AWN Con?dential 11.29.18 Draft person is ever arrested on something else, then the DNA is uploaded again then it matches, and you can now go back and prosecute the original. Dawn: Right. Mindy: Ok. So we had a hit, a CODIS hit. Great case, and the jury, and it?s always the women, two women jurors, they found this guy not guilty. And, they go back and they tell our prosecutor, well, I mean, she said she was raped because Why would she ever have consensual sex with a tampon in? And, we?ve had sex a lot of times with tampons in. Dawn: What? Mindy: We were, like, really are you kidding? Dawn: That is not what I expected you to say. Mindy: No, that?s what I?m talking about. We?ve got the most judgmental jurors. It?s out of control. Dawn: That?s so disappointing. Mindy: And that poor victim, because we?d been telling her this is a great case. You know, this son of a bitch is going to fry, you know, I mean. And then, it?s not guilty. Dawn: Well, you know, but but, at least you went to bat for her, you what I mean? Mindy: No, we did, we did. And I guess my point in that is just we see so much of that, that it just becomes like second nature and I think sometimes we forget that the victims aren?t used to that system, right? So, we have to really sit down and walk them through what it?s going to look like. Dawn: Right. 888888.001530 21443817.1 24 Con?dential 11.29.18 Draft Mindy: Because I don?t think she wanted I think in hindsight, she would have just rather not even prosecuted it. Because she had to be on the stand, go to cross-examination, she had to face him again. And then he wins, and then you get the jurors saying that crap. Dawn: Yeah, that?s so disappointing. Mindy: Yeah, and we hear it all the time. Dawn: I know. Mindy: Why would she put herself in that situation? She was drunk, and I mean, she, she was there. And she was partying and she asked for it, and Dawn: I realize, yeah I would hate to think that every time I, I grabbed a glass of wine that gave someone license to forcibly rape me, you know. Mindy: Apparently, some people think you?ve set yourself up. Dawn: Right. Mindy: Shit, that could be me every Saturday night, then. Dawn: Right? Apparently, I?ve been getting very lucking not getting, right? Mindy: I guess so. Dawn: Well, anyway, Mindy: So, anyway. Dawn: I, I will pass along, you know, to Sarah that, you know, you would be interested in talking to Emily when, you know, the, the lawsuit is no longer an issue for you. Um, but you know, I, I just appreciate you taking the time to call me on it and, you know Mindy: Of course. 888888.00153021443817.1 25 Con?dential 11.29.18 qu? Dawn: It?s just, it?s so disturbing on all sides, I?m just trying to absorb Mindy: Yeah, I know. That?s what I?m saying. You may have more questions when you absorb it, so just keep my number handy. Dawn: Alright, thanks so much Mindy, I appreciate it. Mindy: Hey, listen I?m sorry it was under these circumstances Dawn: Me, too. Mindy: But it was really good to hear from you. Dawn: Me, too. Yeah, it was good to hear from you, too. Alright, we?ll talk soon. Dawn: I will. Alright, bye Mindy. Mindy: 0k. Alright, bye. 888888.00153021443817J 26