Cardinal Martini:

Pope Francis:

About sin – not to talk so much about sexual

“We cannot insist only on issues related to

sins, more about social sins​: “The Church has

abortion, gay marriage and the use of

talked a lot about sin, too much.” “Where can we

contraceptive methods.” (​source​)

find today the training and preparation for the

“There is a great danger for preachers, and it is

battle against what the Bible calls sin? That

that of condemning only the morality that

doesn't mean primarily our personal weaknesses

is—pardon me—‘below the belt.’ But other sins

[personal sins], but the great injustices and needs

that are more serious, hatred, envy, pride, vanity,

of the world against which we are to fight. Jesus

killing another, taking a life … these are rarely

wants to free humanity from this distress, which

mentioned.” “Sins of the flesh are the lightest sins,

is called sin, because it is not the divine will.”

because the flesh is weak.” (​source​)

“In the past the Church probably said too much
about the sixth commandment. Sometimes silence
would have been better.”
On ​Humanae Vitae​: “I admit that the encyclical

Question: “At half a century from Paul VI’s

Humanae Vitae​ has also unfortunately created

Humanae Vitae, can the Church take up again the

negative responses. Many people have distanced

theme of birth control? Cardinal Martini, your

themselves from the Church, and the Church from confrere, thought that the moment had come.”
the people. Major damage has occurred.” “The

Pope Francis: “All of this depends on how

encyclical raised many human aspects of sexuality Humanae Vitae is interpreted. Paul VI himself, at
in a helpful way. Today, however, we have a
the end, recommended to confessors much mercy,
wider horizon in which to ask questions about

and attention to concrete situations. But his genius

sexuality.” “The Pope will probably not retract the was prophetic, he had the courage to place himself
encyclical, but he can write a new one and go even against the majority, defending the moral
further.” “Even if condoms were allowed for

discipline, exercising a culture brake, opposing

HIV-infected couples as a 'lesser evil', that is

present and future neo-Malthusianism. The

probably not enough. This opinion had got me into question is not that of changing the doctrine but of
arguments. I have become ​Cardeal da camisinha going deeper and making pastoral (ministry) take

 [….] [“Cardinal of the Condoms”]

into account the situations and that which it is
possible for people to do. Also of this we will
speak in the path of the synod.” (​source​)

On marriage​: “By self-giving, people open

Amoris Laetitia​: “...special care should always be

themselves to God. In all our physical encounters, shown to emphasize and encourage the highest
we strive toward this goal. Having this goal in

and most central values of the Gospel, particularly

view is more important than asking whether this

the primacy of charity as a response to the

or that is permitted or a sin.” “Today no bishop or completely gratuitous offer of God’s love. At
priest is unaware of the fact that physical intimacy times we find it hard to make room for God’s
before marriage is a fact. We have to rethink this

unconditional love in our pastoral activity.” “...it

if we wish to protect the family and promote

is possible that in an objective situation of sin –

marital fidelity. Nothing will be gained by

which may not be subjectively culpable, or fully

unrealistic positions or prohibitions.” “The Bible

such – a person can be living in God’s grace, can

noticeably limits itself in statements on sexuality.” love and can also grow in the life of grace and
“The times are long gone when the Church could

charity, while receiving the Church’s help to this

talk you into having a guilty conscience.”

end.”
“This offers us a framework and a setting which
help us avoid a cold bureaucratic morality in
dealing with more sensitive issues. Instead, it sets
us in the context of a pastoral discernment filled
with merciful love, which is ever ready to
understand, forgive, accompany, hope, and above
all integrate.” (​source​)

On the ends of marriage​: “Previously sexuality

“Marriage is firstly an 'intimate partner-ship of life

was seen as very limited, exclusively concerned

and love' which is a good for the spouses

with conception. Moral theologians have spoken

themselves, while sexuality is 'ordered to the

of ​finis primarius​, the primary goal of sex. Also in conjugal love of man and woman.' It follows that
this area, the Second Vatican Council opened up a 'spouses to whom God has not granted children

 much wider horizon and deliberately ascribed

can have a conjugal life full of meaning, in both

equal significance to the partnership and the

human and Christian terms.' Nonetheless, the

mutual love of the partners.”

conjugal union is ordered to procreation 'by its
very nature.'” [here, procreation is mentioned
last](​source​)

On the destruction of souls who would

“They are not punished, [...] those who do not

otherwise go to hell​: “I hope that sooner or later

repent and cannot therefore be forgiven disappear.

God redeems everyone. [….] I can't imagine how

Hell does not exist; the disappearance of sinful

Hitler or a murderer who has abused children can

souls exists.” (​source​) (this papal quote ​has never

be with God. It's easier for me to think that such

been denied​ by Pope Francis.)

people are simply extinguished. [….] But perhaps
in the other world God has new possibilities. [….]
Yes, there is hell, but nobody knows if anyone is
there.”
On Islam​: “... we must get to know others, for

“If I speak of Islamic violence, I must speak of

example, Muslims. Many say that Muslims are in

Catholic violence ... and no, not all Muslims are

favor of a holy way, that they would all more or

violent, [….] I believe that in pretty much every

less want to convert us by force. That may be

religion there is always a small group of

partly true, but it is not supported by the Qu'ran.”

fundamentalists. Fundamentalists. We have

“In the first place, we Christians have to let go of

them.” “I do not believe it is right to identify

widespread prejudices and of the notion of all

Islam with violence. This is not right or true. I had

Muslims as the enemy. Terrorists cannot claim

a long conversation with the imam, the Grand

justification for action from the Qu'ran. There are

Imam of the Al-Azhar University, and I know

fundamentalists in both camps. […] We can find

how they think ... They seek peace, encounter.”

agreement between the teachings in the Bible and

“The sacred writings of Islam have retained some

the Qu'ran, just as Islam and Judaism have similar Christian teachings; Jesus and Mary receive
roots.”
profound veneration....” “Faced with
“Muslims believe in the Virgin Mary and Jesus

disconcerting episodes of violent fundamentalism,

 the Messiah [...]”

our respect for true followers of Islam should lead
us to avoid hateful generalisations, for authentic
Islam and the proper reading of the Koran are
opposed to every form of violence.” (​source​)
“Christian terrorism does not exist, Jewish
terrorism does not exist, and Muslim terrorism
does not exist. […] There are fundamentalist and
violent individuals in all peoples and
religions—and with intolerant generalizations
they become stronger because they feed on hate
and xenophobia. “ (​source​)

God is not Catholic​: “You can't make God a

“I believe in God, not in a Catholic God, there is

Catholic. God is beyond all the barriers and

no Catholic God.“ (​source​)

borders we create.”
On religious indifference​: “The goal of all

“The pluralism and the diversity of religions,

churches, all religions, is to do good in the world

colour, sex, race and language are willed by God

and to make the world a brighter place. And Jesus in His wisdom, through which He created human
will make them better able to carry out that task.

beings.” (​source​)

[….] Buddhism and Yoga are wonderful ways into “You ask me if the God of the Christians forgives
a deeper life, […] You will be glad you are
those who don’t believe and who don’t seek the
Catholic, and you will even be glad that the other

faith. I start by saying – and this is the

person is Protestant or Muslim. [….] Religious

fundamental thing – that God’s mercy has no

communities serve to build up and strengthen

limits if you go to him with a sincere and contrite

people and to lead them to God.”

heart. The issue for those who do not believe in
God is to obey their conscience.” (​source​)

On not judging homosexuals​: “Among people I

“If someone is gay and is searching for the Lord

know there are homosexual couples, people who

and has good will, then who am I to judge him?”

 are highly regarded and public-minded. I have

(​source​)

never been asked, and it would never occur to me,
to judge them.”

On positive aspects in homosexual

Mid-term report of 2014 Synod on the Family, as

relationships​: “The deepest concern of the Holy

approved by Pope Francis: “Without denying the

Scriptures, however, is the protection of the family moral problems connected to homosexual unions
and a healthy space for children – something now it has to be noted that there are cases in which
seen among homosexual couples. As a result, I am mutual aid to the point of sacrifice constitutes a
already leaning toward a hierarchy of values in

precious support in the life of the partners.”

these matters and basically not towards equality.”

(​source​)
“The Church furthermore affirms that unions
between people of the same sex cannot be
considered on the same footing as matrimony
between man and woman,” (​source​)

On v​iri probati​: “Perhaps not all men called to be “We have to reflect about whether the ​viri probati
priests have this gift [to live a celibate life]. The

are a possibility. Then we also have to determine

Church will have to think of some way to handle

which tasks they could have, for example in far

this. Increasing numbers of parishes are being

distant parishes. […] In the Church, it is always

entrusted to one priest, or dioceses are importing

important to recognize the right moment, to

priests from foreign cultures. The possibility of

recognize when the Holy Ghost demands

ordaining ​viri probati​ – experienced men, tried

something. That is why I say that we will continue

and tested in faith and in dealing with others – is

to reflect about the ​viri probati​.” (​source​)

worth discussing, in any case.”
On female deacons​: “Leadership by women in

“And it touches on the problem of the [female]

church communities is biblical; […] In the New

permanent diaconate. ... In effect this exists in

 Testament we meet the deaconesses who were part antiquity: there was a beginning. [....] there was a
of the early church until the Middle Ages. Women good Syrian theologian there and one day I asked
theologians have discovered the importance of

him about this, and he explained to me that in the

these women for the Church in recent years.”

early times of the Church there were some
“deaconesses.” […] There are various
publications on the diaconate in the Church, but it
is not clear how it was. I think I will ask the
Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith to refer
me to some studies on this theme [….] In addition,
I would like to constitute an official commission
to study the question [...]” (​source​)

On female leadership in the Church​: “With

“It is true that women are excluded from

regard to the Church leadership, however, I would decision-making processes in the Church:
like to ask for patience. It will discover more and

excluded no, but the integration of women is very

more of women's possibilities. Things have

weak there, in decision-making processes. We

progressed a lot and will continue to progress,

must move forward … because in many aspects of

especially if we treat one another as partners. It is

decision-making processes ordination is not

noticeable that women everywhere are entering

necessary. ... For me the [female] influence on

positions of leadership in the Church.”

decisions is very important “ (​source​)

On Luther​: “Luther was a great reformer. Most

“I think that the intentions of Martin Luther were

important is probably his love of the Holy

not mistaken. He was a reformer. Perhaps some

Scriptures, out of which he created good ideas.”

methods were not correct. [...] There was
corruption in the Church, there was worldliness,
attachment to money, to power...and this he
protested.” (​source​)

On the youth and on making a mess​: “If it has

To youth in South America: “Make a mess, but

become more peaceful in the world of youth, then then also help to tidy it up. A mess which gives us
I am more disturbed by the thought that they are

a free heart, a mess which gives us solidarity, a

 somewhere else in their hearts, that they are just

mess which gives us hope.” (​source​)

not interested in the Church and its further

To young people: “Listen to the cry arising from

development any more, ….. If it gets too peaceful your inner selves! Even when you feel, like the
in the Church, if a feeling of satisfaction takes root prophet Jeremiah, the inexperience of youth, God
in society, I think of Jesus' desire to throw a

encourages you to go where He sends you: “Do

flaming torch of inspiration onto the Earth.” “We

not be afraid, [...], because I am with you to

can't teach young people anything. We can only

deliver you” (​Jer​ 1:8) […] The Church also

help them to listen to their inner master. [….]

wishes to listen to your voice, your sensitivities

Understanding and insight must be given to him or and your faith; even your doubts and your
her from within.” “The young people will be
criticism. Make your voice heard, let it resonate in
prophets; that means they must be critical.”

communities and let it be heard by your shepherds
of souls.” (​source​)

On the good side of conflict​: “Where there is still “What would a society, a family, a group of
conflict, the fire is burning and the Holy Spirit is

friends be like without tension and conflict? Do

at work.”

you know what it would be? A cemetery. Because
only in dead things are there no tensions and no
conflicts. When there is life, there is tension and
there is conflict.” (​source​)

On Proselytism​: What would you say to someone “But what should I do with a friend, neighbor, an
who doesn't believe in God? Martini: “I wouldn't

Orthodox person? Be open, be a friend. ‘But

try to convince him of anything, but would say to

should I make efforts to convert him or her?’

him instead that he should try living life without a There is a very grave sin against ecumenism:
belief in God, and think deeply about himself.”

proselytism.” (​source​) “Proselytism is solemn
nonsense, it makes no sense.” (​source​) (this claim
has never been denied.)

On a poor and humble Church​: “Once I used to “When the Church is humble, when the Church is
have dreams for the Church; of a Church who

poor, even when the Church confesses her

 goes her way in poverty and humility.” “Of

wretchedness – we all experience this – then the

course some officials or bishops of the Church in

Church is faithful.” (​source​)

our Western countries are still sitting behind walls
that are too thick, either in new offices or in old
palaces.”
In favor of environmentalism​: “A third

“Climate change is a global problem with grave

consideration: we should ask ourselves, ​How am I implications: environmental, social, economic,
involved in this misfortune and responsible for it? political and for the distribution of goods. It
For the destruction of the environment, for global represents one of the principal challenges facing
warming, for unemployment, for the radicalization humanity in our day. […] Many of the poor live in
of religion and of the oppressed​?”

areas particularly affected by phenomena related
to [global] warming, and their means of
subsistence are largely dependent on natural
reserves and ecosystemic services such as
agriculture, fishing and forestry. (​source​)