1 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE STATE OF OREGON 2 FOR THE COUNTY OF MULTNOMAH 3 4 5 6 GRAND JURY No. 1 PROCEEDINGS 7 Conducted by: 8 Dave Hannon, Deputy District Attorney 9 Nicole Bockelman, Deputy District Attorney 10 - - - 11 February 21, 2019 12 4:41:53 13 - - - 14 DDA Case No. 2395300 15 PPB Case No. 19-6556 16 17 18 19 20 21 Katie Bradford, CSR 90-0148 Court Reporter Portland, Oregon (503) 267-5112 22 23 24 25 Proceedings recorded on wma audio recording; transcript provided by Certified Shorthand Reporter. 2 Index 1 GENERAL INDEX 2 Page No. 3 February 21, 2019 Proceedings 3 4 Case Called 3 5 Examination of Erik Kammerer 4 6 Examination of Travis Gover 45 7 Examination of Diamond Randolph 56 8 Examination of Michele Taylor Stauffenberg 66 9 Examination of Desmond Pescaia 74 10 Examination of Alan Erspamer 104 11 Examination of Lidiya Omelchenko 111 12 Examination of Justin Raphael 118 13 Examination of Davis Kile 138 14 Examination of Aaron Holwege 147 15 Examination of Josh Howery 156 16 Examination of Consider Vosu 201 17 Reporter's Certificate 247 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 * * * 3 1 DA Case No. 2395300 2 PPB Case No. 19-6556 3 Deceased: 4 Date of Incident: 5 Location: Andre Gladen Sunday, 1-6-19 9610 Southeast Market Street, Portland, Oregon 6 * * * 7 (Thursday, February 21, 2019, 8:45 a.m.) 8 P R O C E E D I N G S 9 10 (Whereupon, the following proceedings were held before the grand jury:) 11 A GRAND JUROR: 12 MR. HANNON: Okay. Good morning. We are here in 13 DA Case No. 2395300. 14 involving an officer-involved shooting. 15 the State, Dave Hannon, H-a-n-n-o-n. 16 colleague. 17 18 This is a death investigation MS. BOCKELMAN: This is Nicole Bockelman, B-o-c-k-e-l-m-a-n. MR. HANNON: 20 ready to call our first witness. 21 call Detective Erik Kammerer. 23 I'm joined by my Good morning. 19 22 On behalf of And we are now on the record A GRAND JUROR: And the State will You ready? ERIK KAMMERER 24 Was thereupon called as a witness; and, having been 25 first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows: 4 Examination of Erik Kammerer 1 2 3 EXAMINATION BY MR. HANNON: Q 4 5 All right. Go ahead and have a seat. And you can start first by stating and spelling your name for the record. 6 A Erik, E-r-i-k; Kammerer, K-a-m-m-e-r-e-r. 7 Q And, Detective Kammerer, how are you 8 9 10 11 12 currently employed? A I'm a detective with the Portland Police Bureau. Q And how long have you been with Portland Police Bureau? 13 A 14 years. 15 Q And how long have you been a detective? 16 A Since 2003. 17 Q So if my math is correct, that's 18 Since 1994, so 24 years coming up on 25 approximately 16 -- 15, 16 years? 19 A Yes, sir. 20 Q And what is your current assignment as a 21 detective? 22 A 23 24 25 I'm currently assigned to the homicide detail. Q detail? And how long have you been with the homicide 5 Examination of Erik Kammerer 1 A Since 2007, so four years. 2 Q And have you had -- been -- participated or 3 undergo training to become a detective in the homicide 4 unit? 5 A Not specifically to the homicide unit. When 6 I was promoted to detective, I attended a detective 7 academy that was put on. 8 Q And do you do ongoing trainings as a 9 detective? 10 A Yes. 11 Q And just briefly, do some of those trainings 12 include trainings in forensics, witness interviews and 13 other aspects of what are typical in a homicide 14 investigation? 15 A Yeah. 16 Q And if you could brief -- please outline, 17 what are some of the functions or duties of a homicide 18 detective? 19 A So we respond to not just homicides, but we 20 take kidnappings as well; officer-involved shootings; 21 serious uses of force that result in injury or death. 22 So if someone is -- is injured to the point where the 23 doctor's saying they might die, we'll get involved at 24 that point. 25 Q And turning your attention to 6 Examination of Erik Kammerer 1 officer-involved shootings, does that -- is that 2 limited to just officer-involved shootings that result 3 in a homicide? 4 A No. Any time a police officer discharges a 5 firearm; or, you know, like, an in-custody death or 6 any kind of injury that would result in someone either 7 dying or potentially dying, we'd respond to. 8 9 10 11 12 13 Q And how -- how are you typically called to those types of investigations or locations when such an incident arises? A Generally, I'm off-duty, so I either get a phone call or a page. Q Are the page or call for officer-involved 14 shootings -- is the protocol the same as it would be 15 for, say, a homicide -- a homicide call or page? 16 A Yeah. It's -- it's a -- we call it a 17 call-out. 18 and I answer the phone or check the pager. 19 usually, I'm directed to respond to a certain location 20 for whatever it is we're going to be deploying for. 21 Q So my pager goes off or my phone goes off And, And when you arrive at that location, not 22 going into this particular case just yet, what is the 23 typical protocol when you first arrive? 24 A For -- 25 Q A -- 7 Examination of Erik Kammerer 1 A -- officer-involved shooting? 2 Q -- homicide call. 3 A So a homicide, we'll respond to the scene. 4 I'll verify that we -- that I have a contained crime 5 scene; that it's all secured; that we've located 6 witnesses; make sure that we have just one point in 7 and out of the crime scene, thus ensuring that it's 8 secure. 9 I'll talk to officers and the sergeants that 10 are there to try and figure out what it is we have, 11 what more needs to be done to secure the scene, to 12 help locate witnesses, to help locate evidence. 13 Q And is that kind of response similar or 14 exactly the same as the response to an 15 officer-involved shooting or are there other factors 16 or personnel involved in an officer-involved shooting? 17 A Yes and -- yes. 18 Q Okay. 19 A So the protocol's the same whether it's an 20 officer-involved shooting or homicide, you know; 21 whether the person shot by the police is dead or not; 22 or, I mean, the bullet didn't even hit him, they, you 23 know, shot a closet. 24 actions are the same. 25 The response is the same. Our In an officer-involved shooting, you get a 8 Examination of Erik Kammerer 1 lot more people responding. 2 oversight, if you will, into the investigation. 3 There's a great deal more On a homicide, just a standard homicide, 4 we'll have between six and eight detectives that show 5 up and a homicide sergeant. 6 from the Forensic Evidence Division that respond to 7 document the scene via photographs and video and 8 collect evidence. 9 We'll have criminalists We usually have a representative from the 10 District Attorney's Office that responds that we can 11 work with at the scene. 12 regular homicide. And that's just on a -- a 13 And then on an officer-involved shooting, in 14 addition to that, we also get representatives from the 15 City Attorney's Office, from the Independent Police 16 Review, IPR. 17 have attorneys for the union. 18 We'll have members of the union. Members from the Department of Justice will 19 also come out or send a representative. 20 a great deal more people that show up on an 21 officer-involved shooting. 22 We'll Q There's a -- And in addition to those personnel, unlike a 23 typical homicide investigation, do you also receive 24 outside agency investigators to assist in the 25 investigation of an officer-involved shooting? 9 Examination of Erik Kammerer 1 A Yeah. We partner with the East County Major 2 Crimes Team, which is comprised of Multnomah County, 3 Gresham. 4 they'll send, at a minimum, two representatives from 5 -- from their agency to assist us. 6 Q Now, the Port of Portland as well. And And with all that personnel, though, there 7 is still the maintaining the integrity of the scene 8 and -- and maintaining -- maintaining the integrity of 9 the evidence; is that accurate? 10 A That is the number one priority, yes. 11 Q So when you first arrive at a -- an 12 officer-involved shooting scene, is there an initial 13 briefing to get an idea or a sense of what the initial 14 information is that came out? 15 A Yeah. Once the investigative team has 16 arrive, we'll assemble and we'll receive a briefing 17 from everybody that has knowledge of what occurred. 18 Q And after that briefing, is there a 19 delegation of tasks, so to speak, to interview other 20 witnesses or locate other evidence involved in the 21 investigation? 22 A Yeah. Detective teams will be assigned to 23 work the crime scene; to find additional witnesses; to 24 interview the witnesses that have already been 25 located; to canvas for video. 10 Examination of Erik Kammerer 1 Q And -- and we've already said this a couple 2 times, but I just want to underscore it or make sure 3 I'm accurate in this regard as well. 4 As all of that is going on, can you describe 5 for the grand jury how the scene or the scene's 6 integrity is maintained while all of these personnel 7 are around or assisting in the investigation? 8 9 A So the -- the immediate scene is taped off with red crime scene tape. And then we'll establish a 10 larger working area that's taped off with yellow crime 11 scene tape. 12 And then we'll establish one point of 13 ingress and egress to that scene with an officer at 14 that point documenting everybody that comes into the 15 scene via a crime scene log. 16 Q And before is there anything, any 17 documentation or photographing or processing that 18 occurs before the primary investigators will go 19 through and look at the scene for additional evidence? 20 A Absolutely. Our criminalists from the 21 Forensic Evidence Division will go through and video 22 and photograph everything prior to any of it being 23 disturbed so it captures the scene as it was. 24 that's after we've established standing. 25 And So if -- if it's inside a residence or a 11 Examination of Erik Kammerer 1 constitutionally protected area, we have to comply 2 with the Constitution and make sure that we're 3 permissible under law to be there. 4 someone's house, we need to get permission or we need 5 to apply for a search warrant to go in. 6 Q So if it's Turning your attention to also more 7 officer-involved shootings, is there a protocol also 8 in place in dealing with the officer in question, to 9 photograph, examine that particular officer at -- 10 11 immediately after the incident? A Yes. The officer will be photographed to 12 show what the officer looked like at the time of the 13 incident. 14 -- a coat and gloves, whatever, to show that they are 15 the police. 16 show what he was looking like, if their badge was 17 displayed or not. 18 So, you know, if they were wearing a coat Or if it's an -- an off-duty officer, to And then we'll collect their firearm. We'll 19 conduct a countdown of the firearm to see how many 20 rounds they're missing and see if that matches up with 21 what we're finding at the scene as far as number of 22 rounds fired. 23 Q When all of that is finished and the -- the 24 evidence has been sufficiently maintained, the 25 integrity of the scene is established, at some point 12 Examination of Erik Kammerer 1 in the initial investigation, do the primary 2 investigators or other personnel involved in the 3 investigation do a walk-through of the scene and 4 examine what it -- what it looked like? 5 A Absolutely. 6 Q Is there also technology or scanning 7 equipment used by the Portland Police Bureau called 8 Leica? 9 A Yes. 10 Q And what is that? 11 A Or Leica system. It's a -- I'm not that 12 technically proficient in it, but it's a 3D scanner. 13 It sits on a -- a tripod and it's a laser system and 14 millions of measurements a second. 15 It scans the whole scene in a 360 degree 16 with a camera that also captures video of the scene. 17 So you have measurements and a -- a recreation of 18 the scene. 19 Q And as a -- as an investigator, how helpful 20 is that for you in trying to understand how different 21 pieces of evidence fit within your crime scene? 22 A Well, I -- I have the luxury of actually 23 being at the scene, so I get to see how pieces fit. 24 But I do find it very useful for people that haven't 25 been at the scene to -- to see it and have an 13 Examination of Erik Kammerer 1 understanding of what the scene looked like at 2 the time. 3 Q And then at -- as all of this occurs and as 4 the evidence of the scene is maintained and the 5 integrity is assured, at that point, then do you or 6 other investigators actually finally seize evidence 7 either for forensic processing or just to capture for 8 further investigation down the road? 9 A Yeah. When we do the walk-through of the 10 scene, we'll look for and identify items of evidence, 11 which will be marked and, again, be photographed and 12 video taken of them. 13 And once that's done and if we used the 14 Leica system, once it's all been scanned, then those 15 -- those items of evidence will be collected. 16 Q So turning your attention to Portland Police 17 Bureau Case No. 19-6556, were you called or paged out 18 as you previously described to that investigation? 19 A I was, yes. 20 Q And what were you called or paged out to, 21 based on your understanding? 22 A 23 and Market. 24 Q 25 It was an officer-involved shooting at 96th And what were some of the first steps that occurred when you arrived at the scene? 14 Examination of Erik Kammerer 1 A When I got there, I went through my normal 2 procedure of verifying that the crime scene had been 3 established and was secured; that witnesses had been 4 located and had already been interviewed. 5 And requested that officers canvas nearby 6 residents for additional witnesses while we were 7 waiting for the rest of the investigative team to 8 respond so we could conduct that briefing. 9 Q And you described earlier that there's an 10 increase in personnel on these types of investigations 11 as opposed to what would normally be, in your 12 experience, a typical homicide investigation. 13 that your experience in this particular case as well? Was 14 A Yes, absolutely. 15 Q In fact, did you have detectives assigned 16 giving recorded interviews to uniformed officers who 17 arrived on scene after the incident occurred? 18 19 A Detectives assigned to give recorded interviews of uniformed officers? 20 Q Mm-hmm. 21 A Ah, yes. 22 Q Okay. 23 A Well, we'll take -- we'll make sure any 24 witness officers are separated and being monitored so 25 that, you know, there's no possible way they could, 15 Examination of Erik Kammerer 1 you know, get their stories together. 2 We ensure that nobody can talk to each other 3 until we can interview them and get a statement from 4 them about what they saw and what they heard and what 5 they know. 6 Q 7 And let's talk about that real quick. Whether it's a homicide investigation, an 8 officer-involved investigation -- shooting 9 investigation or any criminal investigation, in your 10 experience as a detective, do you ever find either 11 eyewitnesses or victims giving accounts that diverge 12 from their own experiences as they recount it for 13 officers or detectives? 14 inconsistencies? 15 A Do you find that there's That's a very broad question. What I would 16 say is when I'm interviewing people who -- you know, 17 you have four or five witnesses that all saw the same 18 thing. 19 exact same statement from each of them. When you interview them, you do not get the 20 And that's attributed to the way people 21 perceive things, their vantage point, how they're 22 experiencing what it is that they see. 23 understanding of a situation, of what happens before 24 something occurs versus just looking over and seeing 25 it as it occurs. Their 16 Examination of Erik Kammerer 1 So, yes, there is slight variations and when 2 you interview five different people, you're going to 3 get five slightly different versions of what happened. 4 And -- and I would expect to see that. 5 I would be alarmed if I interviewed five 6 different people and I got five exact versions of what 7 they saw and they matched perfectly. 8 me. 9 see and I would be suspicious of that. 10 That would alarm That would be something that we wouldn't normally Q And when you get those accounts that might 11 have slight inconsistencies, how important then are 12 those accounts in relation to the physical or forensic 13 evidence that's available to you as an investigator to 14 compare from those interviews? 15 A Oh, it's very important. You know, certain 16 people focus on certain things. 17 this piece of evidence, another person sees this 18 evidence. 19 So one person sees Now, we know that they're both pieces of 20 evidence, but we wouldn't have known that without 21 talking to them and getting their -- each individual 22 story of what it is that they saw. 23 Q And when we talk about evidence or forensic 24 evidence, obviously, that includes evidence found in a 25 crime scene; is that accurate? 17 Examination of Erik Kammerer 1 A Yes, absolutely. 2 Q But there's also other evidence in your 3 investigation, such as BOEC recordings or 9-1-1 calls; 4 is -- is that true? 5 A Yes. 6 Q And so when -- when you're conducting your 7 investigations, is there any one piece of evidence 8 that assists you or do you look at all of the evidence 9 in its parts and -- and analyze it as a whole? 10 A No. You have to take it as a whole. You 11 cannot -- I like this piece of evidence and I'm not 12 going to think about this stuff over here 'cause I 13 don't like that it doesn't help my case. 14 every piece of evidence and use it as a whole. 15 Q You look at So turning your attention to this 16 investigation, was there -- well, let's -- first, were 17 you able to identify the -- the person who ultimately 18 died in this officer-involved shooting? 19 A Yes, we were. 20 Q And -- and who was that? 21 A Andre Gladen -- or Gladen, excuse me. 22 Q And who -- who was the officer who was 23 involved in the -- in the shooting? 24 A Officer Consider Vosu. 25 Q And -- and do the -- in uniform or does 18 Examination of Erik Kammerer 1 Officer Vosu go by any sort of nicknames with that 2 name of Consider? 3 A He goes by Sid. 4 Q All right. 5 I -- you see up on the screen some photographs, is that right, Detective Kammerer? 6 A That's correct, yes. 7 Q What is the first set of photographs that we 8 9 are looking at? A That's the corner of 96th and Market. 10 then the -- the house you can see there is the 11 location where the shooting occurred. 12 Q And Now, this yellow tape right here in the 13 first photograph, is that the outside perimeter tape 14 that you described? 15 A Yeah. That's correct. 16 Q And the red tape here, is that the inner 17 crime scene? 18 come in and out of? That is, only one entryway for people to 19 A Yes, that's correct. 20 Q And was there a log maintained for that 21 portion of the crime scene? 22 A There was, yes. 23 Q Now, tell us about -- what -- what do we 24 25 know about this particular residence? A So this residence is -- at first glance from 19 Examination of Erik Kammerer 1 the outside would appear to be a single-family 2 residence, but it's been modified on the inside to be 3 individual residences inside of this house. 4 it's a group home for mentally challenged individuals. 5 Q It's -- So each person is a tenant, so to speak, 6 with its own secured dwelling; but they share other 7 parts of the house? 8 A Correct. 9 Q And this -- this porch area, what -- what 10 was significant about this porch area? 11 A 12 residence. 13 Q And who is Desmond Pescaia? 14 A Desmond Pescaia called 9-1-1 that day 15 That's the entrance into Mr. Pescaia's regarding an unwanted person on his porch. 16 Q Is this just another angle of that porch? 17 A Yeah. So if you were standing off the porch 18 looking in the front door, that's -- that's the angle 19 you're seeing right there. 20 Q And as far as you know and recount, the 21 chair down here at the bottom, was that as the crime 22 scene was found when people arrived? 23 24 25 A That was as it was found when detectives arrived, yes. Q And so could you briefly summarize just what 20 Examination of Erik Kammerer 1 the disturbance was that led to this incident as -- to 2 your understanding? 3 A So there's two -- Desmond Pescaia lives 4 inside here and then Lidiya Omelchenko is the owner of 5 the property. 6 regarding an unwanted person. 7 And they separately called 9-1-1 Desmond Pescaia described him as possibly in 8 mental crisis. 9 to locate someone who does not live at the location. 10 He showed up on his porch, was trying It was a name Mr. Pescaia was not familiar with. 11 Mr. Pescaia, he spent roughly ten minutes or 12 so trying to assist this unwanted person, who turned 13 out to be Andre Gladen. 14 him some water and then had gone back inside and 15 noticed that he still hadn't left and was refusing to 16 leave. 17 He gave him some money, gave And that's when Mr. Pescaia called 9-1-1 18 requesting the police come by and remove this person 19 from his porch. 20 called saying there's someone laying on the -- on the 21 porch and she wanted the police to come by and -- and 22 make the person leave. 23 Q And then Lidiya Omelchenko had also When -- and to your understanding, how did 24 it evolve from their 9-1-1 calls to what is currently 25 investigated? 21 Examination of Erik Kammerer 1 A Officer Vosu saw the call holding, 2 dispatched himself to the call. When he arrived, he 3 contacted Mr. Gladen and then Mr. Pescaia on the front 4 porch. 5 Mr. Gladen and -- He was spending some time talking with 6 Q "He" being Mr. -- Officer Vosu? 7 A Officer Vosu, mm-hmm. And it appears that 8 Mr. Pescaia became frustrated with the -- the lack of 9 speed in Mr. Gladen being removed. And you see that 10 stick poking out of the garbage can there next to the 11 mailbox? 12 At one point, he picked that up and was kind 13 of holding it up in a threatening manner towards 14 Mr. Gladen, saying, "You need to leave." 15 Officer Vosu got him to put the stick back, 16 presumably. 17 So And then, at that point, Mr. Gladen runs 18 inside Mr. Pescaia's residence. 19 altercation on the porch, the chairs that you see 20 knocked down were knocked over. 21 22 23 Q And during the So where are we looking at now as we get closer? A So, right now, you're -- you can see the 24 mailbox there from the previous photo. 25 looking in the front door. So you're That's a little closet. 22 Examination of Erik Kammerer 1 Right there is a right-hand turn to enter the living 2 room of the residence. 3 And then that -- that other picture shows 4 kind of that angle as you're -- you're making that 5 right-hand turn past that closet looking in the 6 residence. 7 Q And -- and whose residence is that? 8 A That's Mr. Pescaia's residence. 9 So if you were to make that right turn and stop, this is what 10 you would see. You'd be looking into the residence. 11 The front door would be on your right and then the 12 residence continues back to the left. 13 Q And is that what you're talking about right 14 here, it -- 15 A Yeah. 16 Q -- just to the left? 17 A So this is the -- there's not much to this 18 residence. 19 room, if you will. 20 through those doors there at the back end of the room. 21 That's -- I'm going to stand up here. There's the -- the living room, the main And then there's a bedroom back 22 Q Sure. 23 A This is the bedroom door. 24 (indiscernible) here. 25 there. This is a large Then there's the bedroom back 23 Examination of Erik Kammerer 1 Q To your, again, understanding as you were 2 briefed at the scene, when Mr. Gladen ran into 3 Mr. Pescaia's residence, what happened next? 4 5 6 A He was pursued by Officer Vosu and Mr. Pescaia came in right after that. Q And -- and what, if anything, happened when 7 Officer Vosu pursued Mr. Gladen into Mr. Pescaia's 8 residence? 9 A Inside the residence, there was a -- a 10 physical altercation between the two. 11 deployed his Taser at some point. 12 Officer Vosu's vest was taken by Mr. Gladen. 13 Officer Vosu A knife that was on Officer Vosu retreated into the bedroom and 14 was advanced upon by Mr. Gladen, at which point 15 Officer Vosu fired his weapon three times striking 16 Mr. Gladen, who dropped the knife and was given 17 medical attention by other responding officers. 18 19 Q So the bedroom in question is, if I'm looking at the photograph, a left and right back here? 20 A Correct. 21 residence. 22 Q Yeah. It's at the far end of the And the struggle between Officer Vosu and 23 Mr. Gladen, did that happen just around the entryway 24 of the bedroom? 25 A That's correct, yes. 24 Examination of Erik Kammerer 1 Q What -- what is -- again, what -- this -- 2 this photograph is taken of an item within the crime 3 scene; is that right? 4 A That's correct. That's right next to the 5 bedroom door. At the top end of the picture there, 6 you can see the bedroom door. 7 Q And what are these items? 8 A It's a shoe and that's the knife that 9 Mr. Gladen took from Officer Vosu. And then that red 10 bag and everything you see around it is what's called 11 an IFAK. 12 something that our officers are issued. 13 has one. 14 It's an Individual First-Aid Kit. It's Every vehicle So you can see -- I can go through this real 15 quick for you. 16 sheers for cutting clothing, this Z-Pak dressing is a 17 -- a gauze that's designed to be packed into wounds. 18 It has an anti-coagulant that stops bleeding. 19 a pressure bandage here. 20 this is a bandage here. 21 Q You've got rubber gloves here, trauma This is This is more gauze here and And in your briefing or investigation, was 22 there evidence of uniformed officers trying to 23 medically treat Mr. Gladen in the scene after the 24 shooting? 25 A Yes, I was so briefed. 25 Examination of Erik Kammerer 1 Q What are we looking at in these photographs? 2 A So, now, you're standing in front of the 3 bedroom doorway looking into the bedroom. That yellow 4 object on the floor in that right-hand picture there 5 is Officer Vosu's Taser. 6 Q And what is that little spot right there? 7 A That is a fired bullet that when they cut 8 off Officer -- or, I mean, Mr. Gladen's clothing, that 9 bullet just fell out of the clothing. 10 Q Is that the picture of the Taser? 11 A That is the Taser, yes. 12 Q And -- and what are we looking at in this 13 14 15 16 photograph here? A Those are three nine-millimeter shell casings that were ejected from Officer Vosu's firearm. Q Now, going back to the geography of the 17 scene, those casings are found in this corner of the 18 bedroom then? 19 A That's correct, yes. 20 Q And so what did that -- what did that 21 physical evidence tell you in regards to the locations 22 of where the shots were fired in relation to the 23 physical evidence of the medical bag and the Taser and 24 the knife as to the positioning Mr. Gladen? 25 A So for those of you that aren't familiar 26 Examination of Erik Kammerer 1 with how a semiautomatic firearm works, there's a -- a 2 magazine that goes in the grip of a -- the handgun 3 that contains the -- the cartridges. 4 slide on top of the -- the -- the gun that, when 5 fired, comes back and recoils. 6 And there's a A casing is ejected out from the -- the 7 fired round. 8 scoops another round off of that magazine and loads it 9 into the chamber so it's ready to fire again. 10 And then the slide moves forward and And that occurs each time you pull the 11 trigger. 12 vicinity of that bed when he fired his handgun three 13 times. 14 each other, so he didn't move significantly during the 15 time that he was firing. 16 17 18 19 Q So it tells me that Officer Vosu was in the And those casings all landed very close to What was -- what was the significance of this photograph? A That's a big gouge on the floor. I think -- (indiscernible) the picture again? 20 Q Mm-hmm. 21 A So this is the couch that's in the middle of 22 the living room. The bedroom is off on this side. 23 There's actually defects in the corner of the couch 24 covering here where a bullet passes through, it hits 25 the floor and creates that gouge and then it's 27 Examination of Erik Kammerer 1 deflected upwards and penetrates a wall on the far 2 side of the living room. 3 Q And even though you had the casings as well 4 as the Taser and the knife, was that forensic evidence 5 significant for you in establishing, again, locations, 6 proximities and -- and the trajectory of the gunfire 7 between Officer Vosu and Mr. Gladen? 8 A Yes. 9 Q And what are we looking at here? 10 A So that's the -- the far wall in the living 11 room. 12 that's the front of the residence there. 13 the left-hand side of that picture just below that 14 lamp shade there is the defect in the wall where that 15 round skipped off the floor and penetrated. 16 Q Through that window would be the street. So And then on And just for our geography of the -- of the 17 location, off to the right here then would be that 18 entryway again coming into the residence? 19 A Correct. 20 Q And -- and what are -- what are these 21 22 23 24 25 photographs of? A So that's the -- the defect in the wall from the -- the bullet penetrating. Q And so that defect was caused by the firearm being discharged; the bullet going through -- going 28 Examination of Erik Kammerer 1 through the couch, ricocheting off the floor and into 2 the wall? 3 A Yes, that's correct. 4 Q And then we've done, basically, a 360 with 5 this photograph and we're now back at the entryway 6 again? 7 A Yeah, that is the entryway. 8 Q So the knife -- when you inspected or saw 9 10 11 Officer Vosu photographed, was he missing any items on his persons when he was being photographed? A Yeah. When he was photographed, I noticed 12 that his Taser holster was empty and then the knife 13 sheath on his vest was also empty. 14 15 Q And was this knife consistent with what would fit in that sheath on Officer Vosu? 16 A It is, yes. 17 Q And is this something that officers may 18 carry on their vest in patrol? 19 A Yes. 20 Q And what are we looking at here? 21 A That's a diagram of Mr. Pescaia's residence. 22 At the top of the -- the porch and there's the door, 23 which you come in, that immediate right turn into the 24 living room where you see the couches. 25 straight back is the bedroom. And then 29 Examination of Erik Kammerer 1 2 Q So just a recap, at the top -- top or -- top of the photo -- diagram, that's the porch entry? 3 A Yes. 4 Q You come in and take a right into 5 Mr. Pescaia's residence? 6 A Correct. 7 Q And then south and -- or down on the diagram 8 to his bedroom? 9 A Correct. 10 Q And I noticed all of these markers -- were 11 these markers made for the tangible pieces of evidence 12 or things observed in the crime scene? 13 A Yes. Those denote items of evidence in 14 the scene. 15 Q What are we looking at here? 16 A That's Officer Vosu and the overall photos 17 that were taken. 18 right there, that is that sheath on his vest. 19 then if -- just to reference overall, you can see the 20 -- the Portland Police patch. 21 If you look at the one on the bottom And And then if you look at the picture on the 22 left there, right below his badge is the Portland 23 Police badge. 24 was directly below that. 25 Q And that's where that sheath is. And what are these photographs of? It 30 Examination of Erik Kammerer 1 A Those are -- that's his duty weapon and the 2 magazines and all the cartridges that were in it when 3 we did the countdown. 4 5 Q And these are things that Officer Vosu did voluntarily and inside the -- at the crime scene? 6 A Yes. 7 Q As part of your investigation, do you also 8 do a post-briefing with all the officers and 9 detectives who conduct interviews of witnesses before, 10 11 during and after the incident occurred? A Yeah. So there -- everybody's doing all 12 their work simultaneously. So when we're -- we're 13 done, we'll all get back together. 14 lead investigator, I need to know -- you know, "Okay. 15 You guys interviewed this person. 16 You interviewed this person. 17 did this. And then as the What did you learn? What'd you learn? You What did you learn?" 18 And so I will then get briefed by all of the 19 other detectives that were out there on what they did, 20 what they learned and who they talked to. 21 Q And in addition to that, you compile or 22 collect the evidence that was found within the crime 23 scene that -- that was either placard or -- or 24 photographed and documented? 25 A Yeah. It was all collected by criminalists 31 Examination of Erik Kammerer 1 2 from the Forensic Evidence Division. Q And then in addition to that, do you collect 3 or work with BOEC to collect either the phone call -- 4 9-1-1 calls or dispatches documenting who's reporting 5 or what they're reporting in the lead up to or after 6 or during the incident? 7 A Yes, absolutely. 8 Q And you did that in this case? 9 A Yes. 10 Q And so were you able to pull the 9-1-1 calls 11 of both the landlord and the tenant, Mr. Pescaia? 12 A Yeah, I received both of those. 13 Q And were you able to retrieve or locate the 14 BOEC dispatch calls by Officer Vosu indicating he was 15 going to that scene? 16 A Yes. 17 Q And was there any call -- or were you able 18 to locate any call by Officer Vosu asking for 19 assistance when -- at some point in his interaction in 20 this call to the scene? 21 A Yes. Yeah. As -- there's a -- the radio 22 traffic of the incident and so there's no radio 23 traffic of him dispatching himself to the call because 24 that was done via computer. 25 But then when he's on scene, he gets on the 32 Examination of Erik Kammerer 1 radio and requests Code 1 cover. 2 levels of, "I need somebody here now." 3 So we have various So Code 1 is just regular driving. Don't 4 use the lights or the siren or anything like that. 5 Just come on by and give me a hand. 6 the far end would be Code 3, which is use your lights, 7 use your sirens. 8 9 10 11 Q And then the -- Get here now. And so he -- and he asked for Code 1. And then was there any followup to that Code -- initial Code 1? A About a minute after that, he asks -- gets 12 on the radio again to have cover step it up so that -- 13 that means, "Okay. 14 lights and your siren and get here. 15 Q It's time to start using your I need help." And then was there any call or dispatch by 16 Officer Vosu regarding the incident as it occurred of 17 -- that shots had been fired? 18 A Yeah. About a minute and a half after that 19 is when -- after that -- that second request for cover 20 was when he gets on the air and -- and announces that 21 shots have been fired. 22 Q So with those BOEC dispatches or calls, does 23 that establish for you any sort of timeline, so to 24 speak, between the minute he is requesting some 25 assistance to the minute that -- his report of shots 33 Examination of Erik Kammerer 1 fired? 2 A Absolutely. 3 Q And -- and how -- estimate how -- how much 4 time would you say between the first and the third, 5 the shots fired? 6 A About two-and-a-half minutes roughly from 7 when he initially requested Code 1 cover until shots 8 were fired. 9 Q And from your training and experience, would 10 you describe that as a quick escalation or something 11 that was long and drawn out? 12 A 13 situation. 14 was occurring on the porch other than what we heard 15 from Mr. Pescaia. 16 It -- it really depends on -- on the I -- I wasn't there. I don't know what So I -- I really can't put a -- was this is 17 a quick thing or was this a long, drawn-out thing. 18 totally depends on the -- the situation and what's 19 going on at the time. 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q It Did you happen to -- well, first, did Mr. Gladen actually die at the scene? A He did not. He was transported to the hospital, where he was pronounced deceased. Q And was there any items of evidence on his person that factored into the investigation in 34 Examination of Erik Kammerer 1 2 any way? A He had a hospital bracelet from Portland 3 Adventist Hospital on his wrist, which was how we were 4 able to tentatively identify him. 5 So the Portland Adventist Hospital is very 6 close to Mr. Pescaia's residence, so I was curious as 7 to why he was at Portland Adventist, what was going on 8 there and how he ended up at Mr. Pescaia's residence. 9 10 Q As also part of the investigation, do you attend the post-mortem examination or autopsy? 11 A Yes. 12 Q And did you attend that in this case? 13 A I did, yes. 14 Q And from your understanding and observations 15 of the examination -- and we'll hear from the medical 16 examiner -- but what was the cause of death for 17 Officer -- for Mr. Gladen? 18 A Gunshot wounds. 19 Q From your training and experience and, 20 again, we'll have the reports to support that, but is 21 there also, in your experience, toxicology taken from 22 a person when they go through a post-mortem 23 examination? 24 A 25 Yes. They're blood and urine is submitted to the Lab for toxicology examination. 35 Examination of Erik Kammerer 1 Q Knowing that he had the bracelet for 2 Portland Adventist and knowing the proximity to 3 Portland Adventist, did you seek a subpoena for those 4 medical records related to Portland Adventist? 5 A I did, yes. 6 Q And did you obtain those records? 7 A I did, yes. 8 Q Did that help establish for you any sort of 9 10 timeline as to what was going on with Officer Gladen in the lead up to this particular incident? 11 A It did, yes. 12 Q And -- and what in your investigation did 13 you find with that assistance of the Portland 14 Adventist bracelet and records as to a timeline for 15 Officer -- or for Mr. Gladen leading up to this 16 incident? 17 A So I was able to backtrack the whole day. 18 Mr. Gladen resided with his cousin, Diamond Randolph, 19 in an apartment complex out on 145th and Division. 20 And she ended up calling 9-1-1 that morning 21 wanting the police to come because she was afraid of 22 Mr. Gladen. 23 described him as a crazy person in the 9-1-1 call. 24 25 She wanted him to leave. So the officers responded. responding, Mr. Gladen fled. I believe she While they were And he was not at the 36 Examination of Erik Kammerer 1 residence when they arrived. 2 Officer Holwege began looking into why she had called, 3 their relationship, was concerned that it might be 4 some sort of domestic violence relationship. 5 The officer, So he starts asking questions and learns 6 that no real threats were made. 7 no legal authority to arrest Mr. Gladen for any kind 8 of violation of the law for anything that happens 9 inside the residence. 10 11 There's no -- he has So he's doing his investigation. While this is occurring, a couple blocks 12 away, somebody else calls 9-1-1 saying that there's a 13 guy laying in the bushes claiming he's been stabbed. 14 Other officers go to that and Officer Holwege is 15 listening to this as he's doing his investigation with 16 Diamond Randolph. 17 And based on the description and the 18 proximity, thinks that this might be the same person. 19 So he gets ahold of the officers out there and he 20 says, "Hey, I don't want any charges on this guy, but 21 I think this is the same guy." 22 The officers at that location are concerned 23 about the way this person -- Mr. Gladen is -- is who 24 he is -- is acting. 25 come for Mr. Gladen. So they request an ambulance to They think he's probably 37 Examination of Erik Kammerer 1 suffering from hypothermia because it was cold that 2 morning and he's just laying out there kind of 3 lethargic. 4 He was transported to the hospital, to 5 Portland Ad. 6 doctors there think he would -- had a seizure, so they 7 prescribed an anti-epileptic for him, which appears to 8 improve him to the point where he is then discharged 9 from the hospital. 10 11 And in reading the medical records, the And shortly after that, he ends up at Mr. Pescaia's residence. Q And one of the -- is it fair to say that one 12 of the issues in addition to the -- the cold, was his 13 clothing appropriate for how cold it was when he was 14 found and AMR was directing Officer -- Mr. Gladen to 15 Portland Adventist? 16 A 17 morning. 18 T-shirt. 19 Q No. It -- like I said, it was a cold He didn't have a coat. And he was wearing a Was there anything that you found or could 20 recount in the lead up to the incident at 21 Mr. Pescaia's residence, any sort of medical 22 documentation of a mental health crisis as -- was 23 there any report of a mental health crisis at the 24 Portland Adventist records or that you could find? 25 A No. And please keep in mind, I'm not a 38 Examination of Erik Kammerer 1 doctor. 2 that they were -- the doctors were concerned with his 3 mental state, but attributed that to this seizure that 4 they believe he had, which then cleared up when he was 5 given his anti-epileptic drugs. 6 Q I'm reading the medical records. It appeared Now, you -- do you have a chance to also 7 review the post-mortem examination and toxicology 8 report? 9 A I did, yes. 10 Q In the toxicology report, was there any 11 evidence consistent with that seizure medication being 12 applied to him at Portland Adventist? 13 14 15 A Yes, a medication was found. When I looked it up, it's an anti-epileptic. Q And was there any other medications or 16 intoxicants found in Mr. Gladen's system that might 17 account for some of the behavior either in the lead up 18 with Ms. Randolph or at Mr. Pescaia's? 19 20 21 A He was also positive for methamphetamine and amphetamines. Q From your training and experience as just an 22 investigator and an officer with years of experience, 23 has there ever been persons who have been under the 24 influence of methamphetamine who give signs or 25 indications of someone who's in mental health crisis; 39 Examination of Erik Kammerer 1 but, in fact, under the influence of methamphetamine 2 at the time? 3 A Yes. 4 Q But they're not mutually exclusive; is that 5 right? 6 A 7 8 That is correct. MR. HANNON: Do the -- do the grand jurors have any questions? 9 A GRAND JUROR: So what is the standard 10 firing procedure for officers when they fire off their 11 weapon? 12 rounds? 13 14 Is it natural for them to fire off three THE WITNESS: So -- and I believe you have somebody from the Training Division coming in. 15 MR. HANNON: 16 A GRAND JUROR: 17 THE WITNESS: 18 We do. Oh, thank you. Who can really address that. But you fire until the threat has stopped. 19 A GRAND JUROR: 20 THE WITNESS: Okay. So there's no fire two rounds 21 and check or fire one round. 22 the threat has stopped. 23 BY MR. HANNON: 24 25 Q It's just you fire until And in that -- so, Detective Kammerer, in addition to being on the homicide detail, are you 40 Examination of Erik Kammerer 1 2 3 4 also -- well, were you a member of the SERT team? A I'm assigned to the SERT team as an intel officer. Q And you also have gone through the Training 5 Division as far as use of force in ways to end or -- 6 or stop threats coming towards you or others; is that 7 right? 8 A 9 10 11 Yeah. I mean, I've been through the same police training everybody else has for the last 24 years. Q So while we will have a witness testifying 12 to how officers are or are not trained, your answer is 13 to -- to stop the threat, that is certainly something 14 you've been trained to do to stop a threat? 15 A Yes. 16 17 18 MR. HANNON: Any other questions? Okay. BY MR. HANNON: Q Oh, excuse me. I apologize. 19 scan. 20 you also do a Leica of this incident? Yes, so the We went through those crime scene photos. Did 21 A Yes. 22 Q All right. Apologies. All right. So tell us again, what -- what 23 24 25 I'll give that one to you. is the value of the Leica in regards to this 41 Examination of Erik Kammerer 1 situation? 2 A So it creates a three-dimensional recreation 3 of the scene, which, like I said, I have the luxury of 4 being there, so I know what it looked like. 5 that don't can view this and kind of get a better 6 sense than looking at a static picture of what it 7 looked like, what the scene was like. 8 9 People So that is -- you'll -- you'll see here, this is the -- the entirety of the recreation. So 10 here's the -- the porch, the entryway, the -- the 11 living room and the bedroom. 12 And this is the porch here. And as you're 13 looking in, you'll notice there's this black circle 14 here. 15 does not get scanned. 16 That's the area underneath the scanner that And then if it seems a little short, I 17 apologize for that. 18 normally sits on, the locking collar broke on it so it 19 has to be completely stable or you won't get accurate 20 measurements. 21 apologize for that. 22 The five-foot tripod that it So I had to set it on the ground. And here's the front porch. So I This is the 23 garbage can here with that stick in it. 24 picture of it there. 25 Mr. Pescaia provided for Mr. Gladen. And that's a And that's the -- the water that So here's just, 42 Examination of Erik Kammerer 1 again, an overall picture of that room. 2 you would see when walking into this room. 3 This is what So this is the couch with that gouge in it 4 there. 5 through the defects in the couch showing, if -- if you 6 extend that out, the angle at which the bullet was 7 traveling. 8 deflecting up into the wall over here. 9 This is a trajectory rod that was placed It then struck the -- the floor before And then you can see the knife sticking up 10 out of the ground there. That's just a close-up of 11 the knife, the knife that we believed to have come 12 from Officer Vosu's vest. 13 ground there. And that's in -- in the 14 This is the bedroom. 15 the fired bullet there, the Taser there. 16 denotes Taser wire and a probe. 17 the three shell casings in the back there. 18 your three casings. 19 So you can see the -- And then you've got to this room. 21 this doorway is the only way in or out. 22 it for the Leica. 23 want to see? 25 So here's As you can see, there's -- there's not much 20 24 The "4" There's no escape from this room. Just Pretty much Is there any other angles you guys MR. HANNON: And we'll have this up, so if they -- if anybody wants to -- you want to review it 43 Examination of Erik Kammerer 1 at any time through the testimony, we'll pull it right 2 back up. Any other questions for Detective Kammerer? 3 Yes, sir. 4 A GRAND JUROR: In Officer Vosu's service 5 weapon, when you guys did the count, there were three 6 rounds missing, not -- or you found the slug on the 7 floor? 8 THE WITNESS: 9 A GRAND JUROR: 10 THE WITNESS: There was. A GRAND JUROR: THE WITNESS: 16 A GRAND JUROR: 17 THE WITNESS: So we recovered three? Two. We didn't feel like tearing apart the entire corner of the house to -A GRAND JUROR: 20 THE WITNESS: 21 A GRAND JUROR: 22 THE WITNESS: 23 A GRAND JUROR: 25 And was the one with Correct. 19 24 Okay. the gouge in the floor the same one that hit the wall? 15 18 There was one retrieved at autopsy. 13 14 Was there a slug in his body? 11 12 Mm-hmm. Okay. So -- -- get that round. -- in that wall? Yeah. Ah, okay. BY MR. HANNON: Q But to expand upon that, so -- but the slug 44 Examination of Erik Kammerer 1 on the ground is one, the one inside Mr. Gladen. 2 A Yes. 3 Q And so then a third presumably would be in 4 the wall? 5 6 A Yeah. And it appears that it hit the wall and then dropped down somewhere down there. 7 MR. HANNON: 8 A GRAND JUROR: 9 And go ahead. So Gladen was shot twice then? 10 THE WITNESS: Shot twice. Yes, sir. 11 A GRAND JUROR: 12 MR. HANNON: 13 And if other questions arise during the Okay. Any other questions? 14 investigation, Detective Kammerer will be here 15 throughout the day to assist. 16 THE WITNESS: 17 MR. HANNON: 18 Okay. Thank you. The State will now call Travis Gover of the Oregon State Police Crime Lab. 19 All right. 20 hand and they'll swear you in. 21 If you could raise your right TRAVIS GOVER 22 Was thereupon called as a witness; and, having been 23 first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows: 24 //// 25 //// 45 Examination of Travis Gover 1 2 3 EXAMINATION BY MR. HANNON: Q All right. Could you please have a seat 4 and, first, state your name and spell it for the 5 record. 6 7 8 9 A My name is Travis Gover. Last name is G-o-v-e-r. Q time. And -- and I -- I make this mistake every Is it -- is it Dr. Gover or Mr. Gover? 10 A No. 11 Q Okay. 12 13 It's T-r-a-v-i-s. Mr. Gover, how are you currently employed? A I'm employed with the Oregon State Police 14 Forensic Services. 15 toolmark examiner in the Portland Metro Forensic 16 Laboratory here in the Portland Metro and Clackamas 17 area. 18 19 Q I'm a forensic firearm and And how long have you been employed at the Oregon State Police Crime Lab? 20 A I've been there for a little over 20 years. 21 Q And your assignment with the Oregon State 22 23 24 25 Police Crime Lab? A The whole time I've been working out of the -- basically, the firearms and toolmark section. Q And can you briefly summarize for the grand 46 Examination of Travis Gover 1 jury your educational background that qualified you 2 for that position. 3 A To be a forensic scientist for the Oregon 4 State Police, you have to have a bachelor's degree in 5 a hard science. 6 University of Oregon. I have my degree in biology from the 7 Training for the particular position of 8 firearm and toolmark examiner I received from the 9 Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms through a 10 program they refer to as the National Firearm 11 Examiner's Academy. 12 It's a full, year-long intensive training 13 course where the first four months are spent doing 14 research on manufacture of firearms, tools, 15 microscopy, even history or the science. 16 Four months after that are actually spent 17 back east in the ATF laboratory actually doing 18 hands-on stuff with microscopes, visiting firearms 19 manufacturers to see the -- the process to understand 20 what makes firearms -- firearms unique and the 21 markings they produce, what makes them unique to 22 bullets and casings. 23 It includes also other aspects of the job 24 that we do, which involves serial number restorations. 25 We do what's called proximity testing, pistol and 47 Examination of Travis Gover 1 functionality checks just knowing how the firearms 2 work inside and knowing what the safeties are and what 3 they're supposed to be doing and what could lead to 4 their mismark or malfunctions and training like that. 5 And the last three or four months are spent doing 6 assignments and research projects back in your 7 own lab. 8 9 10 Q And were you working for the Oregon State Police Crime Lab and assisting in an investigation, Portland Police Bureau Case No. 19-6556? 11 A Yes. 12 Q And I say assisting. How -- how -- how do 13 you get involved in a criminal investigation when 14 agencies refer items of evidence to you? 15 A So how we get involved is we have usually 16 the firearms and any fire evidence submitted to our 17 laboratory. 18 identify, you know, did these particular items of 19 evidence -- were they -- were they fired in or from a 20 particular firearm in question. 21 type of cases, how I usually get involved. 22 Q It usually has to be compared to That's, for these And so are you a part of the briefings, so 23 to speak, on the investigation or do you simply 24 analyze the forensic evidence that's submitted to you? 25 A We basically just, you know, analyze the 48 Examination of Travis Gover 1 evidence. 2 what happened and whys or anything else. 3 We don't get involved in the briefings and We're kind of off to the side and if the 4 evidence is submitted to us, we're just basically 5 request it, did something come from a particular 6 firearm or from a particular source. 7 we are basically focused on prior to analysis. 8 9 Q And that's what And before turning to this particular case, how -- how are you able to determine whether or not a 10 particular firearm fired a particular shot or 11 discharged a particular casing or cartridge? 12 A Okay. Well, the first thing I'll do is kind 13 of just go over some general terminology we use. 14 is the cartridge is the unfired component, which 15 consists of a cartridge case, the powder inside the 16 cartridge case, the primer and base of the cartridge 17 case and the bullet, which is the projectile itself. 18 One A lot of times you'll hear somebody refer to 19 as a bullet as the unfired component. And for us, 20 technically, the bullet is the projectile and the 21 unfired component is the cartridge. 22 we do as part of this is understanding of how a 23 firearm is manufactured and the machining and tooling 24 that goes into manufacture different pieces and parts 25 of a firearm that make contact with the cartridge as So part of what 49 Examination of Travis Gover 1 it's sitting in the firearm before it's fired. 2 When it is fired, the firing pin of the 3 firearm will actually contact that area called the 4 primer and make an indent. 5 explosion inside the cartridge case, flashes through a 6 hole and basically internal and ignites the powder 7 within the cartridge casing. 8 9 It causes a small It generates pressure, forces the bullet down the barrel. But in that same time, we have what 10 we call equal and opposite directions of pressure. 11 that cartridge case -- as the bullet's being pushed 12 down the barrel, that cartridge case is being forced 13 back into different aspects of the firearm, one often 14 referred to as the breach-face area. 15 It basically holds that cartridge in. 16 it's solid. 17 that pressure comes up. 18 So And It is something to basically support when The marks from the manufacturing process on 19 that breach-face area will get impressed into the base 20 of that cartridge case and then put the face of that 21 primer on the -- on the face of the cartridge case. 22 And other parts of the firearm that are also 23 moving and functioning can also lead to, you know, 24 additional marks and what we call sometimes shearing 25 marks. 50 Examination of Travis Gover 1 That pressure pushing that cartridge case 2 back pushes -- that pressure is pushing a primer back 3 into the hole that the firing pin comes through to 4 make that initial contact. 5 So anything that's not supported in that 6 hole -- that's almost like you're -- to blow a bubble 7 and you had a piece of cardboard with a hole in front 8 and it makes contact. 9 push its way through the hole in it. 10 That bubble's going to kind of The same thing with the primer. It pushes 11 its way into the hole. And as the firearm is 12 basically moving, if the firearm is like this, a 13 semiautomatic pistol, some of them have the slides on 14 top and the barrel are locked together for a short 15 distance as they move. 16 And then they unlock, the barrel drops and 17 the metal that's pushed back into that hole actually 18 shears off. 19 microscopic level. 20 firearm and the uniqueness of those marks to basically 21 identify the cartridge cases as being fired from the 22 firearm in question. 23 Q Those marks are very useful for us at a They're unique to that particular So, in other words, a casing -- or, excuse 24 me, a cartridge and the casing containing all the 25 materials will start off one way and then after it's 51 Examination of Travis Gover 1 fired from a gun, the discharged casing will have a 2 bunch of marks on it on a microscopic level based on 3 the movement within the gun? 4 A That's true, yes. 5 Q And -- and are these characteristics unique 6 7 to each firearm? A Yes. It's been kind of a constant study 8 with a -- an association I'm a member of called the 9 Association of Firearm and Toolmark Examiners. 10 We'll actually obtain consecutively 11 manufactured firearms to study the marks produced by 12 each one. 13 two particular firearms that produce the same series 14 of marks. 15 And so far, it's been yet to be shown and As close as we can get is those 16 consecutively manufactured one right after the other. 17 We expect to see some marks -- some marks will carry 18 over, but the majority are -- they change from firearm 19 to firearm. 20 As the firearms are manufactured, the 21 cutting surface of the tool changes at a microscopic 22 level for each of these cuts. 23 cuts is different from the previous, which then 24 renders the firearms unique. 25 Q So each one of the next So even though a manufacturer may produce 52 Examination of Travis Gover 1 five guns, say, Glock or Smith & Wesson, in the same 2 year, those five firearms are still going to give five 3 individual characteristics at a microscopic level to 4 those casings? 5 A Yes. 6 Q So turning your attention to this particular 7 case, did anybody submit any evidence to you under 8 Portland Police Bureau Case No. 19-6556? 9 A Yes. I received one box of automatic 10 pistol, three magazines, each with ammunition and 11 three fired cartridge cases. 12 Q And did you happen to go through -- well, 13 let's talk about that real quick. 14 forensic analysis, is it -- is it just your 15 observations or is there particular requirements that 16 must occur between -- in the Oregon State Police Crime 17 Lab before your -- your examination is validated? 18 A When you do a So within our system, all examinations like 19 this require identification -- what we call 20 identification sciences, require a second qualified 21 analyst to look at the evidence after -- say, after 22 I do. 23 So if I examine my evidence under the 24 microscope and determine that something is fired from 25 a particular firearm, that's verified by a second 53 Examination of Travis Gover 1 examiner before a report of it goes out. 2 everything's -- has been looked at by a minimum of two 3 people. 4 Q So And so what, if anything, did you do with 5 the pieces of evidence that were submitted to you in 6 this particular case? 7 A The first thing I did was did kind of -- 8 kind of a documentation process. 9 the firearm. I examined the safeties of this 10 particular firearm, the Glock. 11 into the trigger. 12 And so I examined The safety's built It also has some internal safeties. The 13 internal safety I didn't examine 'cause it requires 14 taking the gun apart. 15 built into the trigger. 16 But the primary one is the one So I examined that. It function at it -- as it's supposed to. 17 And then I test fired the firearm at water tank. 18 we shoot basically into a tank where you can recover 19 the bullets in pristine condition. 20 cases end up in a net right there at the port of the 21 tank. 22 So The cartridge So I, basically, examined it just for 23 operability and found firearm operates as it was 24 designed. 25 fired cartridge cases, determined that some of the And then I basically examined the three 54 Examination of Travis Gover 1 characteristics -- what we'd call class 2 characteristics. 3 So there's a firing pin shape. The caliber 4 were the same as the firearm in question and would 5 work. 6 cartridge cases to a microscope. And, at that point, I'd take the fired 7 With my test-fired cartridge cases, my known 8 samples that I obtained, and I perform the comparison 9 analysis on a microscope that basically has two stages 10 that allows us to see both images in one field of view 11 as, like, a split screen. 12 And that allows me to -- any of the 13 microscopic detail I can actually line up in that 14 field of view and observe the -- the correspondence of 15 that detail and determine whether or not the cartridge 16 cases were fired from the firearm in question. 17 And the three fired cartridge cases that I 18 examined in this case I could identify as being fired 19 in the Glock semiautomatic pistol that was submitted 20 to me. 21 Q 22 And did you document those findings in a report? 23 A Yes, I did. 24 Q And what was the report number and date 25 of that? 55 Examination of Travis Gover 1 A The -- the lab case number is 19L-261 and 2 the report -- the date of the report is January 28th 3 of 2019. 4 Q And to summarize then, the three casings 5 that were submitted to you for analysis and the 6 firearm that was submitted to you for analysis, those 7 three casings were fired from that firearm? 8 A 9 10 Yes. MR. HANNON: Okay. Does anybody else have any questions for Mr. Gover? 11 May this witness be excused? 12 Okay. 13 we have (indiscernible). 14 15 Thank you, Mr. Gover. We'll see if Anybody need to stretch out and to use the restroom? 16 A GRAND JUROR: 17 MR. HANNON: Sure. Okay. Why don't we go off the 18 record for five minutes and then we'll get started 19 with our next witness. 20 (Recess taken, 9:50 a.m. - 10:07 a.m.) 21 MS. BOCKELMAN: 22 All right. Thank you. State's next witness is Diamond Randolph. 23 (Pause in proceedings, 10:08 a.m.) 24 A GRAND JUROR: 25 The Why don't you stand right there and raise your right hand. We'll swear you in. 56 Examination of Diamond Randolph 1 2 MS. BOCKELMAN: If you can remain standing and raise your right hand, please. 3 THE WITNESS: 4 MS. BOCKELMAN: 5 Okay. (Indiscernible). That's okay. I think that was yours. 6 THE WITNESS: 7 MS. BOCKELMAN: 8 THE WITNESS: 9 MS. BOCKELMAN: 10 (Indiscernible). That's okay. I'm sorry about that. It's okay. DIAMOND RANDOLPH 11 Was thereupon called as a witness; and, having been 12 first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows: 13 A GRAND JUROR: 14 (TRANSCRIBER'S NOTE: 15 18 EXAMINATION BY MS. BOCKELMAN: Q 19 20 The witness is difficult to hear, understand and transcribe.) 16 17 Thank you. Thank you. You can take a seat. Could you please tell us your name and spell your name for us. 21 A My name is Diamond Randolph. 22 Q Okay. 23 A And it's D-i-a-m-o-n-d, R-a-n-d-o-l-p-h. 24 Q Thank you very much, Ms. Randolph. 25 And thank you for being here with us this morning. 57 Examination of Diamond Randolph 1 Do you know a person named Andre Gladen? 2 A Yes, I do. 3 Q How do you know that person? 4 A He's my cousin and my fiance. 5 Q Okay. 6 And had he been staying with you around the time period of January the 6th of 2019? 7 A January? 8 Q All right. 9 Yes. I'm sorry. Yes, ma'am. And how long had he been staying with you at that point? 10 A He came December 1st. 11 Q So he had been with you about a month by the 12 time January the 6th -- 13 A Yeah. 14 Q -- of this year ran -- rolled around? 15 A Uh-huh. 16 Q And where do you live? 17 A 2405 Southeast 142nd, Apartment 9, it's down 18 19 What's your address? the street across from (indiscernible). Q Perfect. Thank you. Do you remember 20 calling the police sometime in the early morning on 21 January the 6th of this year? 22 A Yeah. 23 Q Why did you call the police? 24 A Well, he's going through something, I guess. 25 He had told me that he's -- he -- he's talking to dead 58 Examination of Diamond Randolph 1 men. 2 something was talking to him and telling him that I 3 was (indiscernible) or something and I was going to 4 (indiscernible). 5 with one eye open or something, you know. 6 (indiscernible) keeping him up (indiscernible). 7 (indiscernible). 8 9 A dead man was talking to him or the devil or Q He needed to go lay down or sleep I mean, Plus And when you say he was talking to someone that was dead, you're talking about -- 10 A The -- 11 Q -- Andre -- 12 A Yeah. 13 Q -- Gladen? 14 A A (indiscernible) of ours that had been 15 killed by the police that he was talking to. 16 didn't -- ah, I didn't want the police to say anything 17 or have -- put that out there 'cause I was afraid 18 (indiscernible) kill me because I -- that happened 19 back to back. 20 Q Okay. And I So just talking about January the 21 6th, you called the police because Mr. Gladen had been 22 talking to somebody that wasn't with us anymore, that 23 had already died; is that correct? 24 25 A Yeah. And he was talking to that person and was also saying that -- talking about the devil and 59 Examination of Diamond Randolph 1 stuff (indiscernible). 2 working through -- you know, that person that -- that 3 was talking to him and said he didn't know 4 (indiscernible). 5 6 Q Okay. So either one of them was Something was going on. Did Mr. Gladen have anything that was giving you concern or making you -- 7 A He -- he -- 8 Q -- worry? 9 A He -- yeah. He -- yeah. He ran in the 10 room. 11 you know, cousin -- dead cousin was telling him and 12 the devil was telling him that I was a killer and I 13 was going to start stabbing him up or something. 14 He -- after I was saying to him someone was -- So he just (indiscernible) something started 15 giving me up before I could get him, he ran in the 16 room that night and (indiscernible) -- yeah, back then 17 or something. 18 Q What was he doing -- 19 A But he told me -- 20 Q -- with those items? 21 A He -- he came and told me, like, "You, get 22 your fat ass off that couch and I am going to kill 23 you." 24 laying down. 25 And so I (indiscernible) 'cause I was still And so I was like, "Oh, no." And then I was (indiscernible) for him. I 60 Examination of Diamond Randolph 1 don't know. 2 you know, that day back and forth arguing. 3 bad. 4 he was in the other room and (indiscernible). 5 (Indiscernible) he was already earlier, That was (Indiscernible) I'd been sleeping after work and Q How were you feeling at that point that 6 Mr. Gladen had the bat and the knife and was talking 7 about you being a killer? 8 9 A I -- it was just -- I let that go in one ear and out the other, but I was just, like, maybe 10 (indiscernible) he was going to start (indiscernible). 11 I mean, cousin -- our cousin, Ernest was telling him 12 that I was a killer and I (indiscernible) stuff right 13 there, I felt a different way I never felt before, you 14 know, from him. 15 (Indiscernible) he was (indiscernible) 16 telling me how I was (indiscernible) the police. 17 says, "I want to -- I love you." 18 don't have any time for this." 19 and then he said, "I'll be back sometime," 'cause 20 (indiscernible) decided that it would get a little 21 earlier -- I mean, lighter outside or -- or later on. 22 23 Q He I -- and I said, "I He said, "I love you," So when you called the police, Mr. Gladen said that he loved you and he left the house? 24 A 25 this." Yeah. He said, "I don't have time for He said, "Woman, I love you," so I don't know 61 Examination of Diamond Randolph 1 if he's just (indiscernible) 'cause I was sleeping or 2 I don't -- you know, 'cause it's where 3 (indiscernible). 4 so feeing, you know. 5 everyone to go look for him. 6 Q And I was like, oh, gosh, you know, So that's why I was calling And when Mr. Gladen was telling you that he 7 needed to jig you up, what did you understand that to 8 mean? What was he going to do to you? 9 A Jig me up? 10 Q Yeah, what does that mean? 11 A Stab me up. 12 Q Do you know whether or not Mr. Gladen had 13 14 used any drugs or any alcohol? A Ah, I don't -- I didn't see him drinking or 15 -- and doing any drugs or nothing like that. 16 mean, I know, ah, he had (indiscernible) every now and 17 then, you know, but I -- I don't know. 18 19 20 Q But, I Did you ever see him use any methamphetamine? A No, no, no, no, no, no. I've never seen him 21 do that. I -- I've seen him smoking, you know, the -- 22 the stuff, but I've never seen him doing any drugs or 23 anything like that. 24 Q Okay. 25 A (Indiscernible), you know what I'm saying? 62 Examination of Diamond Randolph 1 2 (Indiscernible). Q 3 All right. Well, just one moment, please. Ms. Randolph, let me ask you, at the point 4 that Mr. Gladen's telling you that he's talking to his 5 dead cousin, Ernest, where was the knife and the bat 6 before he grabbed those items? 7 A In the room. 8 Q Okay. 9 And so where was he in relation to where those items were in the room? 10 A What -- what was the question? 11 Q Where was Mr. Gladen when he was talking to 12 you and where were the bat and the knife? 13 those items compared to where he was? 14 to him? 15 16 A Where were Were they close Were they far away from him? Well, the -- the apartment is about -- probably about -- it's probably about (indiscernible). 17 Q Okay. It's relatively small? 18 A Yeah. They're -- they're that, you know, 19 (indiscernible). So they're little (indiscernible), 20 you know, and (indiscernible), you know, 21 (indiscernible). 22 Q Mm-hmm. 23 A So he -- he had grabbed this out the room, 24 25 grabbed those items out the room. Q Okay. 63 Examination of Diamond Randolph 1 A (Indiscernible) 'cause he didn't 2 (indiscernible), you know, if you don't -- if you 3 don't (indiscernible) that I was on the couch 4 (indiscernible). 5 (indiscernible). I was on the phone and he 6 Q That makes sense. 7 A Yeah. 8 Q He's missing one -- he was missing one eye; 9 is that correct? 10 A Uh-huh. 11 Q Was he still able to either find the items 12 by feeling for them or was he able to see the items 13 from what you saw? 14 A No, he can't see. 15 Q Okay. 16 A Feeling around. How did he find those items? That's how he trained his 17 self to -- and, plus, he used to be just a street man, 18 you know. 19 helped him to be able to get around, you know. 20 And so he had a lot of hood in him that Where he lived in Sacramento, I guess, for a 21 while, (indiscernible) he, you know, said he 22 (indiscernible) can still feel his way around. 23 you know, say something, like, the (indiscernible) -- 24 what's his name? 25 Charles -- And, (Indiscernible) that the -- Ray 64 Examination of Diamond Randolph 1 2 MR. HANNON: Mm-hmm. BY MS. BOCKELMAN: 3 Q Yeah. 4 A -- son, like, he followed -- you know what 5 I'm saying? 6 different patterns, you know, that he would 7 (indiscernible) the same way, you know. Like, the -- his footsteps, you know, 8 Q That makes sense. 9 A (Indiscernible) he take two steps 10 (indiscernible), you know. 11 12 13 MS. BOCKELMAN: (Indiscernible) believe. Okay. Thank you. BY MR. HANNON: Q So good to see you again. Dave Hannon. 14 So just to understand, despite his visual 15 disabilities, he -- I think you said he -- he's got 16 some street to him. 17 adapt and find his way around despite some of his 18 disabilities? In other words, he's able to 19 A Yeah. 20 Q Okay. 21 A Because he would -- he would feel -- you 22 know, feel around sometime. And then he would -- he 23 said he would do it so much that he just knew a 24 pattern, you know, a pattern that he would go that 25 same way, that (indiscernible). 65 Examination of Diamond Randolph 1 Q Okay. 2 A Yeah. 3 Q And it sounds like from your conversations 4 with him that day, there was something going on with 5 him, maybe some mental health issue -- 6 A Yeah. 7 Q -- from your observation? 8 A I mean, something happened -- something 9 happened. It was -- I don't know what happened to him. 10 Somebody -- something absolutely happened 'cause I 11 never -- he (indiscernible) stacks, you know what I'm 12 saying? 13 -- it was nothing at all that they were -- this family 14 was saying something was wrong (indiscernible). Everybody gives something, you know. 15 Q And -- 16 A I had never seen him this way, so -- 17 Q And while you never saw him use So it 18 methamphetamine, had you ever heard of him using 19 methamphetamine? 20 A No. 21 Q Okay. 22 A I -- no. 23 Q Okay. 24 25 MS. BOCKELMAN: All right. I think that's all the questions we have for you, ma'am. 66 Examination of Michele Taylor Stauffenberg 1 2 MR. HANNON: Does the grand jury have any questions from Ms. Randolph? 3 MS. BOCKELMAN: 4 THE WITNESS: 5 Thanks. I appreciate it, everybody. Thank you. 6 MS. BOCKELMAN: Thank you -- 7 A GRAND JUROR: Have a good -- 8 MS. BOCKELMAN: -- for being here. 9 A GRAND JUROR: Have a good day, ma'am. 10 (Pause in proceedings, 10:19 a.m.) 11 MS. BOCKELMAN: 12 Please stand next to this chair and raise your right hand. 13 All right. MICHELE TAYLOR STAUFFENBERG 14 Was thereupon called as a witness; and, having been 15 first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows: 16 A GRAND JUROR: 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Thank you. EXAMINATION BY MS. BOCKELMAN: Q Thank you. Could you please state your name and spell it for us. A Michele Taylor Stauffenberg, M-i-c-h-e-l-e, T-a-y-l-o-r, S-t-a-u-f-f-e-n-b-e-r-g. Q Thank you, Dr. Stauffenberg. How are you currently employed? A I'm the Chief Medical Examiner for Oregon. 67 Examination of Michele Taylor Stauffenberg 1 Q How long have you been so employed? 2 A For one year. 3 Q Can you please describe your training and 4 experience in terms of being the chief medical 5 examiner? 6 A Yes. I have a bachelor of science degree in 7 biology from the University of Texas in Dallas. I 8 graduated in 1992 summa cum laude. 9 medical school at the University of Texas Southwestern I then attended 10 Medical School in Dallas and graduated with my MD 11 degree in 1996. 12 I then completed a five-year residency in 13 pathology at Parkland Hospital in Dallas. 14 moved to Atlanta and did a one-year fellowship in 15 forensic pathology at the Fulton County Medical 16 Examiner's Office. 17 Q 18 19 20 Excellent. And then I Thank you. Can you describe your duties and responsibilities as the chief medical examiner. A Yes. As a medical examiner, I have a 21 responsibility to determine the cause and manner of 22 death in cases that would fall under the medical 23 examiner's jurisdiction, meaning sudden or -- or 24 unexpected or due to violence or trauma or poisonings, 25 including drug overdose deaths. 68 Examination of Michele Taylor Stauffenberg 1 As the chief medical examiner, I'm the 2 department head of the -- this division of the Oregon 3 State Police, which is the Medical Examiner's Office. 4 Q Thank you. What's the process for 5 determining the cause and manner of death in -- in the 6 cases that you look at? 7 A That can be done by a number of ways. We 8 may perform an examination, which could be an autopsy 9 examination or it might be an external examination. 10 Sometimes we do a medical record review, especially if 11 they've been hospitalized for a -- a lengthy period of 12 time following an injury. 13 We may get more information by doing a 14 medical records review than by examining the body. 15 But, generally, we -- if -- if the body comes in and 16 we perform an autopsy, then we examine the outside of 17 the body. 18 We open it and examine the inside of the 19 body and remove the organs and look at each to see if 20 there's any evidence of an injury or an abnormality 21 that would indicate the cause or manner of death. 22 Q What dictates the different types of medical 23 exams that you perform, whether you perform an 24 external review or an actual autopsy? 25 A Sometimes it depends on the value that would 69 Examination of Michele Taylor Stauffenberg 1 be obtained by doing a more extensive examination. 2 Sometimes opening the body and examining the inside 3 and the organs doesn't give us any more information 4 than just examining the outside of the body, 5 including, as I mentioned, the -- the people who have 6 been hospitalized because their injuries -- injuries 7 may heal over a period of time that they're 8 hospitalized. 9 most useful information. 10 11 12 Q But we do whatever would give us the Did you perform a medical examination on Andre Gladen? A Yes. I performed an autopsy on the body of 13 Andre Gladen or Gladen in -- in our office on Monday, 14 the 7th of January. 15 Q And why did you perform that examination? 16 A Although he had received medical therapy 17 after his injury, he was only there in the hospital 18 for a limited period of time and I felt that I would 19 be able to examine the body and get a better idea of 20 what his injuries actually were by examining the body 21 and doing a full autopsy. 22 Q 23 Mr. Gladen? 24 A 25 What were the injuries that you observed to He had two gunshot wounds that went through the left chest. He had one entrance that was here on 70 Examination of Michele Taylor Stauffenberg 1 the upper-left chest and one that was slightly to the 2 left of that wound. 3 It was near an evidence of therapy. They 4 had cut open his chest to try and resuscitate him and 5 remove blood from the chest. 6 wounds stretch out a little bit on the -- on the side 7 of the left chest. 8 9 And it made one of the But both wounds entered in the front of the chest and one of them exited on the back of the left 10 chest. The other one came to rest beneath the skin. 11 So with these two tracks, it would be nearly 12 impossible for me to tell which entrance went with the 13 exit and which went with the bullet. 14 together, there are two tracks that go through the 15 left lung. 16 Q So lumping them Were you able to determine whether or not 17 those gunshot wounds were the cause of death for 18 Mr. Gladen? 19 A Yes. There was no other injury or 20 abnormality that I could see at the time of the exam 21 that would lead to death more quickly than those 22 wounds. 23 They went through the middle part of the 24 lung where all the larger blood vessels enter the 25 lung. They then branch out as they go towards the 71 Examination of Michele Taylor Stauffenberg 1 outside part of the lung. 2 the inner part where the blood vessels are large and 3 that would allow a large amount of blood to accumulate 4 in the chest. 5 6 7 Q But the tracks went through Did you observe any other injuries to Mr. Gladen's body? A Yes. He had a number of various superficial 8 abrasions and cuts on his hands and arms, none of them 9 deep enough or serious enough to result in death. 10 11 12 Q Ultimately, what did you determine the manner of death in Mr. Gladen's case to be? A The manner of death is homicide indicating 13 that the injuries were caused by another person or 14 persons rather than by himself. 15 16 17 18 Q In Mr. Gladen's case, did you submit any samples for the Lab or toxicology work to be done? A Yes. We submitted blood for toxicology testing. 19 Q And why did you do that? 20 A It's a standard part of an autopsy 21 examination. 22 and toxicology or drug testing on all of our autopsy 23 cases. 24 Q 25 We always routinely get blood alcohol And what was the result of that testing in Mr. Gladen's case? 72 Examination of Michele Taylor Stauffenberg 1 A I don't have that with me. 2 Q I can provide a copy for you. 3 A All right. 4 Q Referring first to the analytical report 5 dated January the 16th of 2019, does this appear to be 6 a toxicology report that was provided in Mr. Gladen's 7 case? 8 A Yes, it does. 9 Q And how are you able to make that 10 conclusion? 11 A The name of the decedent, Andre Gladen, is 12 up in the corner. 13 Dr. Michele Stauffenberg." 14 "reviewed" and my initials "MTS" in my handwriting. 15 16 17 Q It's listed, "Attention, Thank you. And I have the word And what was the result of the toxicological exam in Mr. Gladen's case? A The toxicology report lists the presence of 18 methamphetamine at 0.39 milligrams per liter; 19 amphetamine at 0.099 milligrams per liter; 20 cannabinoids, which is not quantitated; and 21 Levetiracetam, which is an anti-seizure drug. 22 Q And what does it mean in terms of the 23 specific quantities of methamphetamine and amphetamine 24 found in Mr. Gladen's system? 25 A Generally, these amounts of methamphetamine 73 Examination of Michele Taylor Stauffenberg 1 and its metabolite, amphetamine, indicate that he used 2 methamphetamine prior to death within a very short 3 period of time. 4 independently for his death in -- in this case because 5 he has another more compelling cause of death. 6 The amount is not enough to account So it doesn't look like he died from a drug 7 overdose. 8 amount of methamphetamine; and, perhaps, some heart 9 disease, then it might explain his death. 10 If he had no injuries and he had this not enough to take precedence over the gunshot wounds. 11 Q Thank you, Doctor. 12 A All right. 13 But it's MS. BOCKELMAN: Just one moment, please. That's all the questions I 14 have for you, but we're going to see if any of the 15 grand jurors have any questions for you also. 16 THE WITNESS: 17 A GRAND JUROR: No. 18 MS. BOCKELMAN: All right. 19 All right. Thank you very much. 20 THE WITNESS: 21 MR. HANNON: 22 five-minute break. 23 bring in shortly. All right. Okay. Thanks. Well, we'll take a We have our next witnesses we'll 24 (Recess taken, 10:29 a.m. - 10:38 a.m.) 25 MR. HANNON: All right. We're ready to go 74 Examination of Desmond Pescaia 1 on the record with our next witness we're going to be 2 calling very shortly. 3 4 MS. BOCKELMAN: Thank you. Please stand next to this chair and raise your right hand. 5 DESMOND PESCAIA 6 Was thereupon called as a witness on behalf of the 7 State; and, having been first duly sworn, was examined 8 and testified as follows: 9 A GRAND JUROR: 10 11 Thank you. EXAMINATION BY MS. BOCKELMAN: 12 Q Thank you. 13 A Okay. You can take a seat. I meant to ask you if you guys could 14 please speak up a little, as I am completely deaf in 15 my right ear -- 16 A GRAND JUROR: 17 THE WITNESS: 18 MR. HANNON: Okay. -- so -And, actually, that's a good 19 rule for everybody since we're recording just to make 20 sure that the recording (indiscernible). 21 BY MS. BOCKELMAN: 22 23 24 25 Q All right. Thank you. Could you please state your name and spell it for us. A Desmond Pescaia. D-e-s-m-o-n-d. First name is spelled Last name is spelled P-e-s-c-a-i-a. 75 Examination of Desmond Pescaia 1 Q Thank you, Mr. Pescaia. Where do you live? 2 A 9610 Southeast Market Street. 3 Q How long have you lived there? 4 A Let's see. I moved into the house next door 5 probably about three years ago. I've been in this 6 house about a year and a half, maybe two years. 7 Q Is the house split up into different units? 8 A It's -- it's a six-bedroom home. 9 10 11 12 13 the biggest room in the house. And I have So, yeah, I have five other housemates. Q Where is your room located in relation to the other parts of the house? A If you walk onto the property, there's a 14 driveway with a -- with a bunch of parking stalls. 15 And my room actually looks like the front door to the 16 house, so it's up three sets of stairs and there's a 17 front door right there, so -- 18 Q 19 level? 20 A Yes. 21 Q Were you in your home on January the 6th 22 Do you live on the ground floor, the ground Street level, yes. of 2019? 23 A Yes, I was. 24 Q And in the afternoon, do you recall having 25 something unexpected happen? 76 Examination of Desmond Pescaia 1 A Yes. 2 Q Where in your house were you when you 3 initially realized that someone was at -- near your 4 home? 5 A I was actually in my bedroom relaxing, 6 trying to get some rest 'cause I had a really hard 7 week and I called my mentor and I just wanted to rest 8 that day. 9 Q What happened that was unexpected initially? 10 A Ah, I was lying down and I had just fallen 11 asleep. 12 And it sounded like a 25-pound sledgehammer going 13 through my door. 14 15 Q And someone was just pounding on my door. So this wasn't a light knocking, this was a very loud pounding -- 16 A Yes. 17 Q -- is that correct? 18 A Yes. 19 Q About what time in the day are we talking 20 about? 21 A 22 23 I cannot recall exactly, but I'll say it was somewhere between 11:00 and 1:00 maybe. Q When you're on your bed in the back bedroom 24 and you hear the loud pounding at your front door, 25 what did you do? 77 Examination of Desmond Pescaia 1 A I got up, I went out to the front and I 2 asked who it was and I didn't get a response. 3 when I looked out through my glass, I saw an African 4 American young man sitting there. 5 turned towards me, I thought it was my housemate from 6 the other house that's on the property next door. 7 Q And And, with his back You said that he was sitting? Was he 8 sitting on your porch or was he standing up with your 9 -- with his back turned towards you? 10 11 12 13 14 A I have two leather chairs on my porch. And he was sitting on one of the chairs. Q What did you do after you looked out your -- is it, like, a peep hole? A No. It's a -- there's a stained glass dead 15 center of the front door. 16 thought it was Ellie (phonetic), who lives next door. 17 And so I opened the door and I saw this young man 18 sitting there. 19 "What do you want?" 20 And so, like I said, I And, you know, I asked him, I said, And it -- it -- he told me, you know, that 21 some guy named Ernest told him to come to my house 22 'cause I help people out. 23 is and I never met this young man before. 24 25 Q But I don't know who Ernest When you saw the young man and he told you that someone named Ernest had sent him, was he still 78 Examination of Desmond Pescaia 1 sitting in the chair at that point? 2 A Yes. 3 Q Okay. 4 And were you able to see what he was wearing or how he was dressed? 5 A What I recall is he didn't have any shoes 6 on. He did have a pair of socks. 7 pants. 8 I don't recall the exact color of the shirt he was 9 wearing, but I know it was a collared shirt. I did see a hospital gown under his shirt, but 10 Q 11 disheveled? 12 A 13 I remember khaki Were his clothes clean or dirty or normal or How would you characterize his clothes? He was disheveled completely. looked like he had taken a mud bath. 14 Q So he was covered in mud? 15 A He was just dirty. 16 17 I mean, he I mean, there was dirt all over the place. Q When the man told you that Ernest had sent 18 him, did the man tell you why Ernest had sent him to 19 your home? 20 A 21 He said Ernest sent him over to get help and to get some food and to get some rest. 22 Q What did you do at that point? 23 A I told him that I don't know who Ernest is. 24 I offered him something to drink. I had a roll of 25 quarters and I told him, "I'll give you the roll of 79 Examination of Desmond Pescaia 1 quarters to catch the TriMet home," so that he could 2 get back to his house and get whatever help he needed. 3 Q Did he do that? Did the man do that? 4 A No. 5 Q What did he do? 6 A He continued sitting there. So I went and 7 got him some water. And then about five minutes 8 later, he started pounding on my door again. 9 Q Let me back up -- 10 A Sure. 11 Q -- before we get there. 12 A Okay. 13 Q You said that he didn't leave, so you got 14 him a glass of water; is that right? 15 A Mm-hmm, yes. 16 Q When you -- did you -- when you went to get 17 the glass of water, did you shut your door? 18 A I closed my door and locked it. 19 Q Why did you do that? 20 A I didn't feel safe leaving my door unlocked 21 and open. 22 Q Did the man at any point ask to enter your 23 residence? 24 A Yes. 25 Q When did that happen? 80 Examination of Desmond Pescaia 1 2 3 A After the second time when I went to go give him the water. Q So you close your door and lock it when he 4 asks -- when you offer the money and he says no and 5 he's sitting there. 6 So you shut the door, lock it, get the glass of water. 7 What happens when you give the man the glass of water? 8 A 9 locked it. 10 11 12 So you get him a glass of water. I gave him the water. I closed my door. I I went back to lie down and he started pounding on my door again. Q How was he pounding on the door this time? Is it the same as before or is it -- 13 A Yes. 14 Q -- different? 15 A Just as loud. 16 Q Where were you in the house when he starts 17 pounding on the door a second time? 18 A In my bedroom in my bed. 19 Q How much time passed between when you 20 initially gave the man a glass of water and when he 21 started pounding on the door again? 22 A I would say not even five minutes. 23 Q What did you do when the man started 24 25 pounding on your door a second time? A I went outside, I opened it and asked him, 81 Examination of Desmond Pescaia 1 "What do you want?" And his response was, "Well, I'm 2 legally blind. 3 the corner in a white hoodie with a gun and he's 4 coming after me to shoot me and kill me and you. 5 I please come in your house so I can take a shower and 6 get something to eat and some sleep?" 7 "No, you need to leave." And, yet, there's someone standing on Can And I told him, 8 Q You told him, "No, you need to leave"? 9 A Yes. 10 Q Did you use those words? 11 A Yes. 12 Q What did he do when you said that? 13 A He just sat there. And I closed and locked 14 my door and I told him, "You got ten minutes and you 15 need to go." 16 down again. 17 Q What happened next? 18 A About five minutes later, he's pounding on And then I went back to my room to lie 19 my door again telling me about that guy in the hoodie 20 and whatnot. 21 yelling at him -- or I -- and I told him, "You need to 22 either go or I'm going to call the cops and have you 23 trespassed." 24 Q 25 And I was just so irritated, I started When he started pounding on your door the third time and you told him that he needed to leave or 82 Examination of Desmond Pescaia 1 you're going to call the cops, did you open the door 2 to tell him that or did you leave the door shut? 3 A I opened the door and I told him. 4 Q Did you open it fully or did you only 5 partially open it? How did -- 6 A I opened it fully. 7 Q At any point, did you contact your landlady? 8 A Yes. 9 Q When did that happen? 10 A About ten minutes after the third time he 11 pounded on my door, I looked outside. 12 house is set up is -- if this is the porch, I've got 13 the two chairs here. 14 And the way the And he was lying behind the two chairs in 15 front of my front door under the awning. So I went 16 out through the kitchen to let Lidiya know, who's the 17 homeowner, that this guy's not leaving, can she please 18 come help me. 19 called the police and she called the police. And she said to call the cops, so I And -- 20 Q I'm going to stop you there -- 21 A Okay. 22 Q -- 'cause you're giving us a lot of great 23 information, but -- 24 A Sure. 25 Q -- I'm going to break it up just a 83 Examination of Desmond Pescaia 1 little bit. 2 A Sure. 3 Q So you indicated after he pounded on the 4 door the third time, that you saw him essentially lay 5 in front of your front door -- 6 A Mm-hmm. 7 Q -- is that correct? 8 A Yes. 9 Q And at the point that you saw him lay in 10 11 front of the front door, how were you feeling? A I was already pissed off. I was -- like I 12 said, that day, I was not feeling well at all. 13 know, I had a slight temperature. 14 just needed some sleep and some rest. 15 time was just too much already. 16 17 Q Lidiya. I was sick and I So the third And you said that you went to your landlady, Is that Lidiya Omelchenko; is that -- 18 A Yes. 19 Q -- right? 20 And you said that you went through the kitchen; is that -- 21 A Yes. 22 Q -- correct? 23 A Yes. 24 Q Does the kitchen exit -- have an exit 25 You outdoors or is it within the house? 84 Examination of Desmond Pescaia 1 A The -- well, if I go through the back side 2 of my family room, there's a door that opens up into 3 the main house. 4 have to open up the kitchen door to go down a set of 5 stairs to go out the backdoor. 6 7 Q I see. And the kitchen is to the right, so I When you spoke with Ms. Omelchenko, did you speak with her face to face or -- 8 A Yes. 9 Q -- did you call her on the phone? 10 A Face to face. 11 Q And what happened when you spoke with her? 12 A She said, "Call the police." 13 Q Did you call the police? 14 A Yes. 15 Q Why did you call the police? 16 A Because I did not feel safe. I did not feel 17 that I could handle the situation. I did not want to 18 do anything that would bring myself or this young man 19 harm and it was out of safety for both parties. 20 Q Where were you when you called the police? 21 A I was in my family room. 22 Q In your -- in your apartment? 23 A In my apartment, yes. 24 Q Did you use your phone to call the -- 25 A Yes. 85 Examination of Desmond Pescaia 1 Q 2 your call? 3 A 4 5 6 -- police? Did the police respond to Within, I think, about 15 or 20 minutes, Officer Consider Vosu showed up. Q Okay. But you didn't know who the officer was at the time that he showed up -- 7 A No. 8 Q -- is that correct? 9 A Yes. 10 Q So when the officer appeared, where did he 11 12 park? A He parked right out front on the street 13 across -- outside of our home, right across from the 14 academy -- Adventist Academy. 15 16 Q So it was directly outside of your home where he parked; is that correct? 17 A Yeah. 18 Q Were you able to see him when he initially 19 arrived? 20 A No. 21 Q Where were you? 22 A I was in my room lying down. 23 Q How were you made aware that an officer had 24 25 arrived and responded to your call? A Because there was an -- I mean, this -- this 86 Examination of Desmond Pescaia 1 young man, Mr. Gladen, was pounding on my door again 2 and my assumption was, great, the cops are here. 3 You know, I -- my assumption that it was the 4 officer knocking. 5 Officer Vosu standing at the bottom of my stairs. 6 Mr. Gladen was back up sitting on my chair again. 7 Q So I had opened the door and I saw And Was the officer saying anything to the man 8 that was on your porch at the point that you opened 9 your door and looked outside? 10 A No. 11 Q Was -- 12 A Not at -- not at that immediate point. 13 Q Did you hear the man saying anything to 14 the officer? 15 A No, he was yelling at me. 16 Q The man that had been on your porch was 17 yelling at you? 18 A Mr. Gladen, yes. 19 Q What was he yelling at you? 20 A He was saying that he needs me to let him in 21 my house because he -- please excuse my language. 22 is not meant in any shape or form to be racist. 23 Officer Vosu is a white man and Mr. Gladen is an 24 African American man. 25 It But And he said that he is not going to go, and 87 Examination of Desmond Pescaia 1 I quote, "With a nigga ass fucking pig ass cop with a 2 fake-ass badge and his car is full of shit 'cause he's 3 not a real cop." 4 in and I need you to protect me from this 5 motherfucker." 6 Q And he had told me, "I need to come I do apologize for the graphic. But that was the language that the man on 7 your porch was using in reference to the officer; is 8 that -- 9 A Mr. -- 10 Q -- correct? 11 A -- Gladen, correct. 12 Q So when you heard Mr. Gladen make those 13 14 15 16 statements, where were you? A I was standing in front of my door blocking it with my front door open. Q Was Mr. Gladen -- Mr. Gladen said he asked 17 you to let him in or he said that he needed to come 18 in; is that correct? 19 A Yes. 20 Q Did you let him in? 21 A No. 22 Q What did -- 23 A I told him -- 24 Q -- you do? 25 A -- he needs to go with the officer. 88 Examination of Desmond Pescaia 1 Q What was the officer doing at that point? 2 A Officer Vosu was still standing at the 3 bottom of the porch. 4 door. 5 and relax. He had requested that I close my He's calling for backup and to please go inside 6 And I told him, I said, "Look, he's already 7 cracked my door frame. I am not going to keep closing 8 my door because, if I do, I won't have a front door 9 standing." 10 Q What did you do? 11 A I stood in the doorway. I looked at 12 Mr. Gladen and I said, "Dude, you just need to take 13 ten steps, get off my property. 14 officer. 15 Please go with the Get the help you need." And he kept calling Officer Vosu several 16 different expletives. 17 guys saw the news or anything, but I did have the 18 little stick that I was turning into a cane that I had 19 grabbed to just moreso threaten the young man to get 20 him off my property than anything else. 21 So I -- I don't know if you And then Officer Vosu asked me to please put 22 the stick down, he's waiting for backup. So when I 23 went to go put the stick down, somehow Mr. Gladen had 24 slipped by me and into my home and that's when 25 Officer Vosu entered after him. 89 Examination of Desmond Pescaia 1 2 Q And we will get into that very shortly. But, again, I just want to break up what -- 3 A Sure. 4 Q -- you've described into smaller pieces very 5 briefly. 6 A Sure. 7 Q You indicated that after Mr. Gladen told you 8 that he needed to come in, that you said, "No, 9 absolutely not," and then he started -- Mr. Gladen 10 started yelling and cursing at the officer again; is 11 that correct? 12 A (Indiscernible), yes. 13 Q And, at that point, you picked up a stick 14 that you were making into a cane; is that also 15 correct? 16 A Yes. 17 Q What did you do with that stick at the point 18 that you picked it up? 19 with it? 20 A Nope. Did you do anything physically I was just holding it. 21 held it up and that was all. 22 of a threat than anything else. 23 Q And I had Like I said, it was more And when you held it up, did you say 24 anything to Mr. Gladen to try to get him off of 25 your porch? 90 Examination of Desmond Pescaia 1 2 3 4 A I told him he needs to go or I'm going to beat the crap out of him 'cause I'm tired of this. Q And, at that point, the officer told you to put the stick down? 5 A Yes. 6 Q Did you put the stick down there on 7 the porch? 8 A 9 10 11 12 13 14 I put it back into a bucket that I have sitting outside behind my chair. Q At the point that you bent down to put the stick down, what did Mr. Gladen do? A He stood up and slipped right by me into my home. Q Did the officer follow him directly in or 15 did you go in first and then -- how did the order 16 happen? 17 A I -- I'm not exactly positive 'cause it 18 happened so quickly, but I believe that I did let 19 Officer Vosu in first. 20 to get Mr. Gladen subdued. And then I followed him to try 21 Q Where in your home did Mr. Gladen go? 22 A If you walk into through my home, there's a 23 false fireplace. 24 onto his (indiscernible) and ended up on his stomach. 25 Q And that's where he slipped and fell You indicated that Mr. Gladen slipped and 91 Examination of Desmond Pescaia 1 2 fell. Were you able to see how he slipped and fell? A Yeah. His socks were wet and my floor is -- 3 you know, it's -- it's hardwood, so if you're wearing 4 wet socks or your feet are wet, it's not exactly the 5 safest (indiscernible). 6 7 8 9 Q What did Officer Vosu do at the time that Mr. Gladen fell there in your living room? A He got on top of him. him, so I did the best I could. He asked me to help And somehow, 10 Mr. Gladen had kicked me in the chest, so I had to 11 back up. 12 Q Before we get into that, let me ask. 13 was it that Officer Vosu asked you for help? 14 words did he use? 15 A How What He said, as far as I remember, "Can you 16 please help me subdue this man so we can get him out 17 of here?" 18 Q What did you do at that point? 19 A I did my best to grab his feet. I put my 20 foot on his chest. 21 could without injury to myself or to Mr. Gladen 'cause 22 I wasn't sure if he had a knife or needles or what 23 on him. 24 25 Q I did everything that I physically What was Officer Vosu doing while you were trying to subdue the man and -- and control his legs? 92 Examination of Desmond Pescaia 1 A He was pulling out -- I think he was using 2 the zip -- the police zip tie to -- he pulled that out 3 and then he had tried to turn Mr. Gladen over, which 4 he finally did. 5 ties around his hands, somehow Mr. Gladen had gotten 6 back over on his back and kicked Officer Vosu off. 7 Q Just when he was ready to get the zip So you're indicating that initially, 8 Officer Vosu was able to get Mr. Gladen onto his 9 stomach and pull his hands behind his back; but at 10 some point, Mr. Gladen was able to turn back over and 11 get away from you and the officer? 12 A Correct. 13 Q You also indicated that you were kicked at 14 some point; is that correct? 15 A Yes. 16 Q How were you kicked? 17 A He kicked me right in my sternum. 18 Q Did he ever -- did you ever see him hit or 19 20 kick Officer Vosu? A Yeah. He kicked -- he -- he kicked 21 Officer Vosu off. 22 quarters are, Officer Vosu ended up on his -- on his 23 butt in my room in front of my -- my bed. 24 25 Q And because of how close the Before Mr. Gladen kicked Officer Vosu into your bedroom, where was Officer Vosu on Mr. Gladen 93 Examination of Desmond Pescaia 1 compared to how you were working on his legs? 2 was Officer Vosu doing in terms of where his body was 3 located on Mr. Gladen? 4 A What He was sitting on -- he was sitting on 5 Mr. Gladen's stomach right by the waist area, I 6 believe. 7 8 Q Was Officer Vosu straddling him or was he leaning over him? What was the position of his -- 9 A He was straddling. 10 Q Were you able to see how close his upper 11 body was to Mr. Gladen's upper body? 12 A He was right on top of him. 13 Q At the point that Mr. Gladen kicked 14 15 16 17 18 19 Officer Vosu into your bedroom, where were you? A I was standing right behind Mr. Gladen with my back towards my front door. Q What was Mr. Gladen doing at the point that Officer Vosu is in your bedroom? A He went to go rush Officer Vosu. And that's 20 when I went up to him and I tried to hold him back 21 with both of my arms under his arms by his shoulders, 22 holding him. 23 out and started rushing Officer Vosu. 24 25 Q And somehow, Mr. Gladen was able to slip When you attempted to grab Mr. Gladen, did you grab him from behind so you're facing his back or 94 Examination of Desmond Pescaia 1 did you grab him from the front of his body? 2 A Behind. 3 Q You indicated that you grabbed underneath 4 his arms; is that correct? And you -- 5 A Yes. 6 Q -- pulled his shoulders? 7 A Yes. 8 Q Did Mr. Gladen say anything at the time that 9 10 you grabbed him? A I -- that, I don't recall. All I could hear 11 was Officer Vosu warning him six or seven times, 12 "Stand down or I'm going to tase you." 13 Q Was that after Mr. Gladen had gotten away 14 from you grabbing him and pulling him away or was that 15 before? 16 17 18 A That was while I was in the process of trying to subdue him. Q You indicated that you heard Officer Vosu 19 indicate at least six times, "Stand down or I'm going 20 to tase you"? 21 A Yes. And I kept telling him, Mr. Gladen, 22 "Dude, just stand down, man. 23 tased, you know. 24 instructions. 25 you need." You don't want to get Just -- please, just follow our We're trying to get you the help 95 Examination of Desmond Pescaia 1 2 3 Q Were you able to see whether or not Officer Vosu had pulled out his Taser at that point? A Yeah. He -- after about four or five times, 4 I noticed he started loading his Taser after Mr. -- 5 Mr. Gladen had gotten loose, I observed Officer Vosu's 6 face just turning ghost white like he was scared for 7 his life and -- I'm sorry. 8 who fell on his back. 9 Q And he tased Mr. Gladen, Did you hear Mr. Gladen make any statements 10 in response to Officer Vosu warning him, "Stand down 11 or I'm going to tase you"? 12 A Two seconds later he got back up and he 13 said, "No nigga ass motherfucking Taser is going to 14 hold me back, bitch. 15 all I remember hearing. 16 again. 17 I'm going to kill you." That's And I went to hold him back Officer Vosu told him, "Stay back or I'm 18 going to shoot you." And I saw Mr. Gladen go into his 19 pocket, pulled out a knife. 20 Officer Vosu yet again. 21 times, all I heard him saying was, "Stand down or I'm 22 going to shoot you. 23 you." He was rushing About four or five, six Stand down or I'm going to shoot 24 And after the first pop, if I didn't move an 25 inch and a half to the left, I would not be here right 96 Examination of Desmond Pescaia 1 now. And three shots, Gladen -- Mr. Gladen went down. 2 Next thing I know, Officer Vosu's put his Taser down 3 and he called and said, "Fires been -- shots been 4 fired. I need EMTs here immediately." 5 It took five minutes or less, I had 40 cops 6 outside my door with the EMTs. And I'm sitting -- I'm 7 outside dry heaving 'cause all I could smell was 8 death. And it just -- 9 MS. BOCKELMAN: 10 questions, Mr. Pescaia. 11 moment, we can. 12 couple of minutes? I'm sorry to ask you these And if we need to take a Would you like to break just for a 13 MR. HANNON: 14 THE WITNESS: Take your time, though. So they took him to the 15 ambulance. 16 followed protocol. 17 to right. 18 remember Kammerer's last name, but Officer Kammerer 19 stayed with me on the bus and we had discussed a lot 20 of stuff. 21 They tried to revive him. Officer Vosu He did everything he was supposed And EMTs, they brought a bus and I don't And before he got off, too, he had told me 22 that Mr. Gladen did not make it. And that just 23 devastated me because, obviously, if I could have, I 24 would have taken those bullets for that young man so 25 that he could have gotten the help that he needed. 97 Examination of Desmond Pescaia 1 BY MS. BOCKELMAN: 2 Q Thank you. I'm going to ask you just a 3 couple more questions about exactly what you just 4 described and I know it's very emotional, so if at any 5 point you want to just take a deep breath and -- 6 A I'll let you know. 7 Q -- get some air, let me know 'cause 8 sometimes it's easier for people to get through the 9 hardest part. 10 A I understand. 11 Q You indicated that prior to any shots being 12 fired, that you saw Mr. Gladen rush at Officer Vosu -- 13 A Yes. 14 Q -- is that correct? 15 A Yes. 16 Q When was the first time you saw the knife? 17 A When he got back up after the -- the tasing. 18 I just saw him put his head down, said what he did to 19 Officer Vosu, went into his pocket and pulled a knife 20 out. 21 go into the side of Officer Vosu. And all I saw was his hand like this starting to 22 And that was the second time -- I -- I have 23 never seen death come over a man's face and so much 24 fear as I did when I looked at this officer's face. 25 Q How many times did you hear Officer Vosu 98 Examination of Desmond Pescaia 1 tell him, "Stop or I'll shoot"? 2 A God, at least five, six times. 3 Q How close did Mr. Gladen get to Officer Vosu 4 before Officer Vosu began to shoot at Mr. Gladen? 5 A It was right in his face, less than two 6 feet away. 7 something different, but it's really difficult to get 8 an accounting or think, unless you sit down and really 9 think about it and see what happened. And I know that earlier, I had spoke to 10 just, like, right there. 11 Officer Vosu had no choice. 12 13 14 15 Q you said you heard three shots; is that correct? A Yes. 17 physically? 18 A 21 22 23 24 25 The first one went into my wall in my home, which is still there. Q 20 And, unfortunately, You indicated that after the three shot -- 16 19 And he was After the three shots, what did you do I ran outside, sat on my stairs and I was dry heaving for about 15, 20 minutes. Q How long did it take before more officers or emergency people came? A They were there in less than five minutes. Like I said, I believe -- I mean, it was -- yeah. Q Did you remain outside at the point that they ran in or did you go inside with them? 99 Examination of Desmond Pescaia 1 2 3 4 5 A I was told that I need to stay out of the house because it's now a crime scene. Q At any point, did you see what happened to the knife after Mr. Gladen was shot? A It had dropped to his side into my floor and 6 it was standing up with the handle facing towards the 7 street. So it was facing -- I'm sorry. 8 Q That's okay. 9 A It was basically sitting like this. 10 Officer Vosu was here. Mr. Gladen was here. 11 knife was facing this way. 12 Q And it was sticking up? 13 A Yes. 14 So the Sticking up and diagonally towards my front window facing Market Street. 15 Q Did you, at any point, ever touch the knife? 16 A I put my finger through the eye hole, picked 17 it up so that Officer Vosu knew that it was there and 18 he could physically see it. 19 back down and leave it in the exact location that it 20 was, which I then did. And he told me to put it 21 Q Was that before or after you ran outside? 22 A Okay. But -- God. You know, I apologize. 23 I need to back up. I ran outside. I went in for a 24 moment after they got Mr. Gladen out to see if I could 25 grab a shirt and my hat. Ah, and it was -- I believe 100 Examination of Desmond Pescaia 1 it was after the fact that they had taken Mr. Gladen 2 out. 3 4 Q And where did you put the knife after you picked it up? 5 A Right back where it was. 6 Q Did you see anybody else touch the knife? 7 A No. 8 that's all I know, but I don't know who grabbed it. 9 10 I do know they took it for evidence and Q What happened after Mr. Gladen was taken away from your apartment? 11 A I was told to stay out of my house. I was 12 sitting outside for a while. They called the TriMet 13 bus. 14 the two detectives' names, but I know one of them was 15 -- was a Detective Rico, who really helped. I went into the TriMet bus. I don't remember 16 Officer Kammerer, like I said, sat with me. 17 And then Chaplain Steve came in to talk with me for a 18 little bit to ensure my safety from myself. 19 20 21 MS. BOCKELMAN: Okay. Just one moment, please. All right. Mr. Pescaia, that's all the 22 questions I have for you, but some of the grand jury 23 members might also have questions for you. 24 THE WITNESS: I do apologize for that. 25 MS. BOCKELMAN: Oh, that's okay. We can 101 Examination of Desmond Pescaia 1 fix that. 2 THE WITNESS: Okay. 3 A GRAND JUROR: Mm-hmm. Could you -- I have 4 a question about how big Mr. Gladen is. 5 put your arms -- 6 THE WITNESS: 7 A GRAND JUROR: 8 Under him and --- under him. Was he as -- as big as you? 9 10 You said you THE WITNESS: I would say -- how -- excuse me, but how tall are you? 11 A GRAND JUROR: 12 THE WITNESS: 6'5". 6'5"? Okay. He's about five 13 inches shorter than (indiscernible) and I say he 14 weighs maybe, what, about 175, two bills. 15 A GRAND JUROR: 16 THE WITNESS: Two. Somewhere -- he's somewhere 17 around this young man's size, minus five inches. 18 BY MR. HANNON: 19 Q I -- I -- have one follow-up question -- 20 A Sure. 21 Q -- that -- as you -- as he asked that. 22 23 Dave Hannon for the State. Did it appear as if Mr. Gladen had any 24 difficulty navigating around your apartment or was he 25 moving around from Point A to Point B with a purpose? 102 Examination of Desmond Pescaia 1 A All he did was run in. 2 Q Okay. 3 A He was trying to hide. 4 Q Okay. But -- but did he indicate -- did it 5 seem as though he had any difficulty going from 6 Point A to Point B? 7 A Absolutely. I thought the guy was higher 8 than a kite on drugs. 9 days later, I thought about that. 10 11 12 And then after the fact, a few He was paranoid schizophrenic and he was not on his medication. Q Okay. So -- but that's not something you knew at the time of the incident? 13 A No. 14 Q But I guess my question, though, is: When 15 he wanted to get in your house, he did not have 16 difficulty going by you and getting into your house? 17 18 19 A Absolutely not. I mean, he just busted right in. Q And when the interaction turned towards your 20 bedroom, he had no problem directing towards 21 Officer Vosu -- with the -- 22 A No. 23 Q -- intent of directing towards Officer Vosu? 24 A Not at all. 25 MR. HANNON: Okay. Does -- does the grand 103 Examination of Desmond Pescaia 1 jury have any follow-up questions to that? 2 MS. BOCKELMAN: 3 All right. 4 Thank you very much, THE WITNESS: May I add one very quick, small thing, if possible? 7 8 No? Mr. Pescaia. 5 6 Any other questions? MR. HANNON: 'Cause -- Why don't we take one moment. Let -- let me find out what it is outside. 9 THE WITNESS: 10 MR. HANNON: Okay. I'll just make sure it's 11 admissible and then -- and then I'll come right back 12 in. 13 for two minutes. Once you -- you just -- we'll stay on the record 14 15 THE WITNESS: Thank you for your time, ladies and gentlemen. 16 GRAND JURORS: 17 THE WITNESS: 18 All right. Thank you. I do, again, apologize for the vulgarity. 19 A GRAND JUROR: No problem. 20 MS. BOCKELMAN: Unfortunately, that's part 21 of what we do every day, so they've -- 22 THE WITNESS: 23 MS. BOCKELMAN: 24 25 (Indiscernible). -- probably heard a lot of it. THE WITNESS: I come from Hawaii. I got ten 104 Examination of Allen Erspamer 1 (indiscernible). 2 that, she slapped my head. 3 4 If my mom ever heard me talk like (Pause in proceedings, 11:12 a.m. 11:13 a.m.) 5 MR. HANNON: So just for the record, he 6 wanted to introduce evidence that would have been 7 hearsay or something she learned from other people and 8 so we're not going to allow that. 9 10 All right. The State's ready to call its next witness. 11 MS. BOCKELMAN: 12 MR. HANNON: 13 THE WITNESS: 14 MS. BOCKELMAN: Yes. All right. Hello. Thank you. Could you please 15 stand next to the chair and raise your right hand and 16 we're going to swear you in. 17 THE WITNESS: 18 Of course. ALAN ERSPAMER 19 Was thereupon called as a witness; and, having been 20 first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows: 21 EXAMINATION 22 23 24 25 BY MS. BOCKELMAN: Q Thank you. You can take a seat. Can you please give us your name and spell it for us. 105 Examination of Allen Erspamer 1 2 A My name is Alan Erspamer. Last name, E-r-s-p-a-m-e-r. 3 Q And you said it's Erspamer; is that correct? 4 A Yeah. 5 Q Thank you. 6 A Where do I live? 7 Yes. Mr. Erspamer, where do you live? I live at 9610 Southeast Market Street. 8 Q How long have you lived there? 9 A Oh, since around the summertime, just off 10 the top of my head. 11 Q What part of the house do you live in? 12 A I live in the room -- if you use Desmond's 13 14 15 as the center, I live upstairs to the right. Q Perfect. So you live in the upper level just to the right of where he lives? 16 A Yes, ma'am. 17 Q Were you at home on January the 6th of 2019? 18 A Yes, ma'am. 19 Q Do you recall hearing anything out of the 20 21 ordinary? A No, ma'am, nothing out of the ordinary. 22 Every now and then, because I'm living with a bunch of 23 gentlemen, it gets a little loud. 24 is a little loud. 25 down and see what's going on 'cause me and Desmond are Desmond sometimes And at the time -- usually, I do go 106 Examination of Allen Erspamer 1 friends. 2 enveloped in a conversation on the computer 3 (indiscernible). 4 5 Q But, at that point, I decided not to. I was But it's safe to say that you heard something; is that correct? 6 A Yes, I did. 7 Q What did you hear? 8 A I heard thumps, bumps; you know, like, maybe 9 furniture being moved, something along that lines. 10 Q Did you hear any yelling at all? 11 A Yes. 12 13 14 15 16 17 I did hear a little bit, but that's not out of the ordinary. Q That's fair. Did you hear the yelling first or after the thumps and bumps? A I -- to be honest with you, I don't really recall. Q Okay. And the yelling that you heard, could 18 you hear if it was just one voice yelling or if it was 19 multiple voices yelling? 20 A I think it was just one. 21 Q Could you tell who that person that was 22 yelling was? 23 A No, ma'am. Often, there is a lot of yelling 24 around the property there, so we all just kind of keep 25 to ourselves and such. We have a few individuals in 107 Examination of Allen Erspamer 1 the house which have special needs, so it goes with 2 the territory. 3 4 Q Thank you. You indicated that you heard yelling and thumps and bumps -- 5 A Yes, ma'am. 6 Q -- like moving furniture. 7 A Yes, ma'am. 8 Q Did it sound like the thumps and bumps were 9 10 11 up against a wall or up against a floor or could you tell? A I couldn't tell, but it -- it -- now that I 12 think about it, it could be, like, up against a wall. 13 It could be (indiscernible) that way. 14 Q Did you hear anything else? 15 A Yes, ma'am. 16 Q How long -- how much time passed between I heard sirens. 17 when you heard the yelling and the thumps and bumps to 18 when you heard the sirens, if you can remember? 19 A I would have to say it wouldn't be long. 20 Like, maybe less than five minutes. 21 enveloped in a conversation with a friend of mine, so 22 I wasn't really paying attention in that type of 23 matter. 24 A little more of an eccentric day, but a normal day. 25 Q As I said, I was And all that seemed like a normal day there. Did you ever hear any gunshots? 108 Examination of Allen Erspamer 1 A No. I did not hear any gunshots whatsoever. 2 Q Were you listening for gunshots? 3 A No, ma'am. But if I did hear them, I would 4 recognize them. 5 DPSST rating with firearms and such, so I'm very 6 familiar with them. 7 8 Q I am a security officer. I have a Once you saw the police arrive, did you do anything? 9 A Yes. The situation was is that I heard 10 sirens coming, which is pretty normal. 11 busy street. 12 front of the place. 13 I live on a And then I heard the sirens stop in At that point, I went to my window, I took a 14 look and I saw officers running in. 15 pajamas. 16 leather coat on, put some shoes on and went down to 17 investigate and see what was going on. 18 It was my day off. I was still in my So I immediately got my I went out the side entrance, the kitchen 19 entrance, and into the parking lot and started walking 20 up. 21 obviously, I'm interested in what's going on. 22 that's when I saw Desmond on the porch. I saw more than three officers running in, so, 23 Q What was he doing on the porch? 24 A He was -- how do I describe it? 25 And Almost -- I can't -- I can't say a panic, but pretty close. He 109 Examination of Allen Erspamer 1 was controlled, though. 2 I approached him immediately asking what was 3 going on and he warned me off immediately. He's like, 4 "No, no. Don't come 5 here. Don't come in. Don't come here. Stay -- stay away from me." 6 And I remained, at that point, in the center 7 of the driveway. 8 by police -- a Portland police officer who asked me to 9 stay to the side, which, of course, I obeyed. 10 Q And, at that point, I was approached At the point that you were upstairs playing 11 video games, did you have anything on your ears while 12 you were playing video games? 13 A Yes, ma'am. I did have my rabbit ears on, 14 but I don't -- I don't like to have them fully on. 15 had my right ear exposed, so I had this on and I had 16 it behind my right ear. 17 cumbersome, so I didn't like it too much. 18 19 Q It's pretty big and So the -- the earphones were covering your left ear, but not your right ear? 20 A Yes, ma'am. 21 Q And what kind of video game were you 22 I playing? 23 A I was playing a game called Second Life -- 24 Q Okay. 25 A -- which is a very interactive-type game, 110 Examination of Allen Erspamer 1 which they call MMO, massive multiplayer online. 2 Q Okay. 3 A Okay. All right. 4 MS. BOCKELMAN: 5 That's all the questions I have for you, but 6 some of the -- 7 THE WITNESS: 8 MS. BOCKELMAN: 9 Okay. -- grand jury members might also have questions for you. 10 THE WITNESS: 11 MS. BOCKELMAN: 12 All right. 13 THE WITNESS: 14 Just one moment, please. Sure. No? Thank you very much, sir. No problem. You all have a good day. 15 A GRAND JUROR: You, too. 16 A GRAND JUROR: Thanks. 17 MS. BOCKELMAN: And you're going to stand You, too. 18 right next to this seat and raise your right hand, 19 please. 20 21 22 MR. HANNON: There you go. And I'll swear you in. LIDIYA OMELCHENKO 23 Was thereupon called as a witness; and, having been 24 first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows: 25 A GRAND JUROR: Okay. Thank you. 111 Examination of Lidiya Omelchenko 1 2 3 EXAMINATION BY MR. HANNON: Q 4 5 6 7 8 9 All right. Go ahead and have a seat. And can you first start by stating and spelling your name. A Lidiya, L-i-d-i-y-a. And it's last name Omelchenko, O-m-e-l-c-h-e-n-k-o. Q Thank you. where do you reside? And, Ms. Omelchenko, where -Where do you live? 10 A Market Street, 9610 Southeast Market. 11 Q And you live at that residence? 12 A Yeah. 13 Q And -- and what kind of residence is it? 14 A A home. 15 Q What kind of home is it? 16 A It is my home. 17 Q Okay. 18 And do other people live at that home? 19 A Yeah. 20 Q Do you have tenants who rent out rooms 21 from you? 22 A Yeah. 23 Q And how long have you owned that home? 24 A Over some 15 years. 25 Q 15 years? 112 Examination of Lidiya Omelchenko 1 A Mm-hmm. 2 Q And turning your attention to January 6th, 3 2010, did you have an occasion to call 9-1-1 about a 4 problem at your home? 5 A Yeah. 6 Q And -- and do you recall why you called 7 9-1-1? 8 A Oh, I don't remember, no. 9 Q Okay. 10 A Mm-hmm. 11 Q And how long has he lived at your residence? 12 A I don't know. 13 14 Is Desmond one of your tenants? It might be three years. It might be over. Q Okay. Do you recall or will it refresh your 15 memory that there was a -- Desmond made a complaint to 16 you that day? 17 18 A Yeah. He's come in my home and talked to me, "Lidiya, it's homeless sleep in the porch." 19 Q Okay. 20 A Yeah. 21 Q So Desmond came over to you and did he tell 22 23 24 25 you on the phone or in person? A No. He's one person. He's come on my side and talked to me. Q Okay. And so he came over to you and said 113 Examination of Lidiya Omelchenko 1 2 3 that there's a homeless person at his place? A Yeah. And I talked to him, "Call the police." 4 Q Okay. 5 A But after this, I said maybe I need to go to 6 see by myself. And I go to see him. 7 the home and when I come through (indiscernible) 8 Desmond -- 9 Q Mm-hmm. 10 A -- it's -- he's put on his porch -- he's put 11 two chair, big chair. 12 lay down and I just see his eye. I come around to And when I go, I saw somebody 13 Q Mm-hmm. 14 A This man it was black -- a black people -- 15 Q Mm-hmm. 16 A -- and his eye black and I don't talking 17 with him. I -- I just come, so -- and hope the police 18 come to help him because maybe it's very cold outside. 19 Maybe they will come and help him. 20 Q So let me -- let me slow you down real 21 quick. 22 and told you in person? So if I understood correctly, so Desmond came 23 A Mm-hmm. 24 Q Then you went ahead and walked around the 25 property to see for yourself? 114 Examination of Lidiya Omelchenko 1 A Mm-hmm. 2 Q And when you went to see for yourself, you 3 saw an African American gentleman laying under the two 4 big chairs on the front porch? 5 A Mm-hmm. 6 Q Is -- is that yes? 7 A No. 8 Q Well, I'm sorry. 9 A Can -- can I -- 10 Q We're -- we're recording, so -- 11 A Okay. 12 Q -- I want to make sure it's yes -- 13 A Okay. 14 Q -- or no. 15 A Okay. 16 Q So -- 17 A Yes, yes. 18 Q Okay. 19 A It was the two chairs, his -- this is his You know, this is -I'm just -- 20 door and he's (indiscernible) after this chair 21 (indiscernible) close to door (indiscernible). 22 23 Q Okay. So he's close to the door near the chairs laying down? 24 A Mm-hmm. 25 Q Yes? 115 Examination of Lidiya Omelchenko 1 A Yes. 2 Q Okay. 3 And so -- so then you also called the police to see -- 4 A Yes. 5 Q And your hope was to get some help for 6 this person? 7 A Yeah. He's -- yes. 8 Q Okay. Did you hear or see anything after 9 calling 9-1-1? 10 A I stayed and wait when the policeman come. 11 Q Mm-hmm. 12 A When he is come, I just (indiscernible) by 13 my hand, this man. 14 Q Mm-hmm. 15 A And after this, I turned and go to -- in 16 17 18 my place. Q Okay. So you actually saw the officer arrive and you pointed him where to go? 19 A Mm-hmm. 20 Q Yes? 21 A Yes. 22 Q Okay. 23 A Policeman talked to them, this man. 24 25 Policeman -- police -Q Mm-hmm. 116 Examination of Lidiya Omelchenko 1 A And I see it's not my work -- 2 Q Mm-hmm. 3 A -- and I go to my place. 4 Q Okay. So when you went into your place 5 after the police arrived, did you see or hear anything 6 after that? 7 A I hear, like, shot, but I don't know if this 8 is shot. I seen somebody maybe fell down or something 9 (indiscernible). 10 Q Mm-hmm. 11 A And I hear a -- I don't think this is shot 12 13 14 because I don't hear before shot. Q Okay. So you may have heard a shot, but you -- you're not sure if it was a shot? 15 A Yeah. 16 Q And it -- what you heard was maybe just a 17 loud noise? 18 A 19 It's not a lot of noise, but I hear -- it's, like, shot and I -- and I decide to go to see. 20 Q Mm-hmm. 21 A And I -- I get, again, go to around this 22 house. 23 Q Mm-hmm. 24 A And I saw a lot of policemen cars. 25 Q Mm-hmm. 117 Examination of Lidiya Omelchenko 1 A (Indiscernible). 2 Q So a lot of policemen arrived when you went 3 to look? 4 A Yes. 5 Q And did you see medical personnel or -- 6 A Yes. I saw it's medical come. And what I 7 saw is they took it from Desmond's porch, somebody, 8 and put him in car and go. 9 Q And I go in my place. So you saw them take the person on the 10 medical, what, stretcher or gurney? 11 like -- 12 A Yes. 13 Q -- to transport him? 14 A Yes. 15 Q Okay. 16 ambulance? 17 A Yeah. Like, the -- And then they put him in the I -- I don't know exactly it was 18 ambulance and so I saw, just took him and I -- I feel 19 not very comfortable. 20 not very good and I go to -- in my place again. 21 22 Q It just was -- you know, I feel And then later, were you interviewed by police officers? 23 A Mm-hmm. 24 Q Okay. 25 A They come in my place and talked to me. 118 Examination of Justin Raphael 1 2 3 Q the grand jury today? A 4 5 And they -- and you told them what you told Yes. MR. HANNON: Okay. Do -- do the grand jurors have any other questions for Ms. Omelchenko? 6 May this witness be excused? 7 Okay. 8 THE WITNESS: 9 MR. HANNON: 10 Great. Thank you. I'm good? Yeah. Thank you, Ms. Omelchenko. 11 THE WITNESS: 12 A GRAND JUROR: 13 THE WITNESS: 14 MR. HANNON: 15 Ready to call our next witness. 16 You can just stand right there, raise your 17 Yes, thank you. Have a good day. Thank you. And give me one moment. right hand and then we'll swear you in. 18 JUSTIN RAPHAEL 19 Was thereupon called as a witness; and, having been 20 first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows: 21 EXAMINATION 22 23 24 25 BY MR. HANNON: Q All right. Could you start first by stating and spelling your name for the record. A Sure. My first name is Justin. It's 119 Examination of Justin Raphael 1 J-u-s-t-i-n. 2 R-a-p-h-a-e-l. 3 4 5 6 7 8 Q My last name is Raphael. It's And, Officer Raphael, how are you currently employed? A I'm a Portland police officer currently assigned to East Precinct, B shift. Q And what -- and what does that mean, "B shift"? 9 A 10 shift. 11 at night, so kind of a -- a hybrid shift, if you will. 12 13 14 Q B shift is our term for our day relief It's 10 o'clock in the morning 'til 8 o'clock And what -- like, what area of town does that precinct cover? A Sure. So East Precinct is huge, if you're 15 not familiar with it. 16 Cesar E. Chavez, so 39th Avenue to the west all the 17 way to the border of Gresham to the east. 18 side of I-84 all the way down to the border of 19 Clackamas County. 20 East Precinct runs from The south So it's almost a perfect square, but it's 21 huge. Basically, Mt. Tabor to Gresham, North Portland 22 to Clackamas County. It's -- it's huge. 23 Q And how long have you been a police officer? 24 A I was hired in September of '12, so we're 25 actually right at six-and-a-half years right now. 120 Examination of Justin Raphael 1 Q And have you had to undergo any training or 2 experience for qualifications to work for the Portland 3 Police Bureau? 4 A Definitely, yeah, extensively. Before I was 5 hired, I actually put myself through the police 6 academy down in California. 7 the Sacramento Police Department's academy, which, 8 down in California, they're a little different than it 9 is up here in Oregon. 10 And then I went through Up here in Oregon, we have the one basic 11 police academy down in Salem. Down in California, 12 there is numerous basic police academies that you can 13 put yourself through. 14 So down there, I went through the Sacramento 15 Police Department's, which is one of the most advanced 16 and difficult academies down there. 17 training hours was almost 1,000 down there just in 18 their basic police academy. 19 And the total So I went through that police academy. I 20 was hired on by the Portland Police Bureau. 21 decision was made to kind of hit the reset button and 22 send me to the Oregon -- Oregon basic police academy. 23 So I went through the Oregon basic police academy 24 as well. 25 A And then after that, I went through the 121 Examination of Justin Raphael 1 Portland Police Bureau's advanced academy, which was 2 an additional 12 weeks. 3 12 weeks, so over a year in just basic police academy 4 training before I went through the formalized training 5 of the Police Bureau's FTEP program, so to answer your 6 question, a lot. 7 Q So 25 weeks, 16 weeks and And you mentioned that you do work East 8 Precinct. 9 East Precinct or have you worked any other precincts? 10 A Has that been -- have you always worked So with the Portland Police Bureau, if 11 you're not aware, when we're hired on and we're new, 12 to kind of get us up to -- up to par, they have us 13 train in each precinct during our rotational period 14 under FTEP just to kind of, you know, familiarize with 15 areas of the city and how different precincts do 16 things. 17 So I did work through all three precincts. 18 And once I was off probation, I was at North Precinct 19 for only a few months and then I was back at East 20 Precinct. 21 the whole year. 22 23 24 25 Q And I -- I've been at East Precinct nearly And you may have already said it, but just for acronym purposes, FTEP stands for? A so -- The Field Training and Evaluation Program, 122 Examination of Justin Raphael 1 Q Okay. 2 A -- other agencies call it FTO or FTEP or -- 3 4 it's just when you're -- when you're a new guy. Q So turning your attention to January 6, 5 2019, Incident No. 19-6556, were you working at East 6 Precinct that day? 7 A I was. 8 Q And in regards to this specific incident, 9 10 11 what was the first thing you recall about this investigation? A Sure. In regards to this -- so I actually 12 very specifically remember that day. 13 an area of the precinct that was nowhere near even 14 where this had happened. 15 southern-most district. 16 bordering Clackamas County. 17 call the south end. 18 I was working in I was working the I was actually, like, I was way down in what we So I just remember, actually, the exact 19 intersection I was at when I heard Officer Vosu call 20 out that he needed expedited cover. 21 remember his exact verbiage. 22 And I don't I don't remember if he said step-up cover or 23 if he said Code 3 cover. You know, we -- we have 24 different verbiage depending on, you know, how you 25 like to phrase it. But I do remember being at 82 and 123 Examination of Justin Raphael 1 Holgate and I remember Officer Vosu saying something 2 to the effect of he needed help and he needed it now. 3 Q Uh-huh. 4 A And -- and I remember, at that moment, I 5 just looked on my MDC, 'cause I didn't know where he 6 was. 7 know anything. 8 help, so I looked to see where he was and I started 9 going that direction as fast as I could. 10 I didn't know what call he was on. Q I didn't I just heard an officer say they need And as you were en route to the location, 11 did you receive any updates or new information as you 12 were on your way? 13 A Yeah. So I was, oh, maybe about a minute 14 out and I heard Officer Vosu call out that shots had 15 been fired. 16 an even faster response and a -- a -- a change in my 17 planning and how I was going to address this call. 18 And that obviously warranted, you know, So that was the major thing. I don't 19 remember if he said anything between those, any -- any 20 particular updates besides that and that was the one 21 that sticks out. 22 23 24 25 Q And do you -- do you recall approximately the time of day when all of this kind of occurred? A You know, it's funny. I mean, when I think about it right now, I actually don't remember a 124 Examination of Justin Raphael 1 specific time. I remember it was midday. That's -- 2 Q Okay. 3 A -- as close as I can give to you. 4 Q Were you one of the first or the first to 5 arrive at the location? 6 A Yes, I was actually the first. 7 Q And when you first arrived, what was one of 8 9 the first things you observed as you arrived? A So kind of an -- an interesting caveat to 10 this was the call that Officer Vosu was on, I didn't 11 recall hearing him get dispatched to this call. 12 -- I didn't -- I didn't have any details of it. 13 And I So while I am responding there, we -- we 14 have an option using our keyboard and our -- our 15 computer in our patrol car where you can just hit a 16 couple of buttons and we call it self-attaching. 17 You can get onto a police call without 18 having to get on the radio and say, "Hey, I'm going to 19 that." 20 dynamic kind of critical events, you don't want to tie 21 up the air. 22 that significant event to have the radio if he 23 needs it. 24 25 And the reason that's important is, in these You want the officer who's going through So I remember self-attaching to this. And as I'm driving Code 3, lights and sirens, trying to 125 Examination of Justin Raphael 1 get there as safely and quickly as possible, I'm 2 trying to see what kind of call this is and what 3 Officer Vosu is dealing with. 4 And so, at some point, I'm able just to see 5 it's -- you know, it's an unwanted -- that's what 6 we -- what the call type was. 7 at a house that wasn't supposed to be there. 8 all I can remember, basically. 9 And that somebody was That's So when I come pulling up to the scene, I 10 have very little information. 11 know why he's calling for cover. 12 he is. 13 up to the scene, I see Officer Vosu's police car, but 14 I don't see Officer Vosu. I don't know anything. 15 I -- I don't -- I don't I don't know where And so as I come right And -- and that -- that was just what I saw 16 when I first got there. 17 or indication of where he was or what he was going 18 through. 19 20 21 Q I didn't have any direction And did you make contact or make -- see anybody when you arrived at the location? A So I remember as I was pulling up -- I would 22 say I came up pretty -- pretty quickly. 23 remember looking around, frantically looking for 24 Officer Vosu. 25 And I And I didn't see anything. And so I actually got on my radio and I said 126 Examination of Justin Raphael 1 something to the effect of, like, "Hey, Sid, where are 2 you?" 3 house." 4 what the target address is. And he very calmly responds, "I'm inside the 5 And so I quickly realize where the house is, And on the front porch, I saw -- I believe 6 you just were speaking with him a few witnesses ago -- 7 Des. 8 frantically, you know, waving towards me and -- and 9 signaling me to come in. 10 I see Desmond standing there and he's And so, at that -- at that point, I knew where -- where I needed to go. 11 Q And did you end up going into that location? 12 A I did. So, again, I -- I didn't know what I 13 had. I didn't know what I was going into. 14 ran up to this -- the residence, the first thing I saw 15 was, on the front porch of this place, was two really 16 big, like, office chairs, like, bigger than what I'm 17 sitting on, a pretty significantly sized chair. 18 And as I And my first thought was that this was going 19 to impede officers and EMS from getting into this 20 house. 21 grabbed these chairs and I threw them as far as I 22 could out of the way. 23 And the first thing I did was I actually And then I ran into the interior of this 24 residence. And when you enter this front door, you 25 kind of go right into a -- a living room area, a 127 Examination of Justin Raphael 1 common area that had couches and what not. And so I 2 made entry in there and that's when I first saw 3 Officer Vosu. 4 Q And -- and what did you observe? 5 A Officer Vosu was kind of facing -- I guess 6 we would call it south-easterly in this room and he 7 had a subject on the ground at gunpoint. 8 9 And so my first kind of game plan was to ensure that Officer Vosu was safe and that he didn't 10 need anything immediately as far as attention. 11 then it was to form a plan into how we were going to 12 address the subject on the ground and how we were 13 safely going to proceed from there. 14 15 16 Q And And -- and were you able to establish that Officer Vosu did not require any medical attention? A Yeah. So, again, I said something to the 17 effect of, you know, "Sid, are you good?" And he 18 says, "Yes, I'm good." 19 remember two or three other officers I could see out 20 of my peripheral and I could hear coming in. And so, at that point, I 21 And so I don't even know who it was, but I 22 pointed to Sid and I said, you know, "Get him out of 23 here. 24 the scene." 25 Officer Vosu and he was now out of play. You know, remove -- remove Officer Vosu from And so I just remember an officer grabbed 128 Examination of Justin Raphael 1 And then that shifted our attention from 2 then Officer Vosu to what we needed to do to render 3 aid to the subject on the ground and how we were going 4 to do that safely. 5 -- it was Miller and I want to say Officer Letter 6 (phonetic) were next to me. 7 So, again, I think it was Officers And I looked at them, we made eye contact. 8 I said, "Everybody, let's take a breath. 9 down." Let's slow We formed a custody plan about who was going 10 to address what and then we made an approach to begin 11 to render aid to the subject on the ground. 12 Q And -- and in discussing that, because, at 13 the time you approached Officer Vosu and this person 14 on the ground, you had -- did you have any information 15 as to what level of threat or what the issue was of 16 the person on the ground? 17 A No. We just -- we -- we see what we see 18 when we walk in. Well, all we would have known is 19 that Officer Vosu had fired and that we had somebody 20 on the ground. 21 When we were kind of making that game plan 22 and we were slowing down, I did see some things that 23 concerned me about our approach and how we needed to 24 safely get to the subject on the ground. 25 Q And so was the person on the ground actually 129 Examination of Justin Raphael 1 handcuffed prior to you trying to apply medical 2 attention to him? 3 A He was. 4 Q Okay. And what medical attention, if any, 5 that -- well, after he was subdued, what steps did you 6 do to gauge what his injuries were and address those 7 injuries? 8 9 A So PPB is really cutting edge on what we train our officers as far as, like, EMS and wound 10 triage and what our expectations are. 11 ton of training on how we're able to wound triage and 12 apply care and render aid. 13 We -- we get a And so in this particular case, the first 14 thing you want to do after making sure everything is 15 safe and you're -- you're -- you know, you're safe to 16 proceed because we're trained you're a police officer 17 first and then you're basically an EMT second type of 18 thing. 19 And so once the scene is secure and he's 20 okay, we do a -- a wound triage. 21 -- I've heard some people call it blood sweep or 22 whatever where sometimes you're just trying to find 23 what's going on with this person. 24 25 We do a -- what some And so on this particular case, we started to do a blood sweep or a wound triage to locate where 130 Examination of Justin Raphael 1 he'd been hit and what our options were as far as 2 treatment. 3 Q And what, if anything, did you guys observe? 4 A During the -- the triage, we located two So that was the first step. 5 gunshot wounds to his upper-left chest area right over 6 here. 7 Q 8 those? 9 A And what, if anything, did you to address So once we discovered those wounds, we sent 10 an officer out to get a trauma kit. 11 all of our police cars have trauma kits in them that 12 have a pretty significant amount of stuff. 13 All of our FIUs, And one of the things that's available to us 14 is these chest seals, which if you're not familiar, 15 they're literally big pads and they're sticky. 16 you simply peel them off and they're meant to treat 17 gunshot wounds or -- or puncture wounds, things of 18 that nature, on the chest cavity. 19 And And what it's meant to do is, if you have 20 been hit in the chest cavity, obviously, that's a 21 tight, sealed space naturally. 22 entrance wound or an exit wound or both, that creates 23 a vacuum and that causes these catastrophic, you know, 24 injuries that -- that get worse and worse. 25 When you have a -- an So the game plan with a -- a wound to that 131 Examination of Justin Raphael 1 -- this cavity here is to apply these chest seals and 2 make it airtight. 3 discovered the two wounds, we -- I personally applied 4 the -- the seal, the chest seal, to his chest. 5 So in this particular case, once we And then we discovered that he had an exit 6 wound on his backside, so we applied a second seal 7 onto the backside to make that cavity airtight again. 8 And with wounds to the cavity, that's your option. 9 You -- you can't do anything else at that point. 10 You can't stuff them. You can't -- well, 11 I'm not going to perform surgery right then and there 12 obviously, so you're limited. 13 are our option at that point. 14 Q But the seals are -- And at any point while you were -- and other 15 officers were trying to render medical aid, did any 16 medics or paramedics arrive to assist? 17 A Yeah. So, basically, right after we apply 18 the wounds and we put him kind of in a recovery 19 position, the -- the paramedics arrived; and, you 20 know, we said -- we said what we had and we said what 21 we observed and we passed off the care and custody of 22 the subject to AMR and PFB. 23 Q And, at some point or any point, was the 24 person on the ground, later identified as Mr. Gladen, 25 was he uncuffed so the medical staff could continue to 132 Examination of Justin Raphael 1 treat him? 2 A He was. So as soon as medical came in, we 3 said what we had, we said what we did. 4 remember if they asked or if we asked, "Would you like 5 him unhandcuffed?" 6 unhandcuffed so they could provide further aid if it 7 would assist them. 8 Q I don't But he was, in that moment, After that occurred or as that occurred, was 9 there anything else -- any other physical evidence you 10 observed at the scene when you arrived and saw kind of 11 this dynamic situation? 12 A Right. Yeah, definitely. A few things 13 worth mentioning. 14 into the -- into the -- the room and I had Sid and he 15 would have been off to my right-hand side. 16 his gun out. 17 at gunpoint. 18 The first was, when I made entry And he had He had the -- the subject on the ground As I looked at the subject and I was waiting 19 for other officers to get there and we were slowing 20 things down, right off of the subject's -- it would 21 have been -- if he's on his back, right off of his 22 right shoulder, so over his shoulder stuck into the 23 ground was a dagger that was stuck into the floor. 24 25 The floor was wood, so, you know, I remember seeing this dagger being stuck into the floor and 133 Examination of Justin Raphael 1 thinking, wow, like, that had to have taken some force 2 for that dagger to be stuck in the floor. 3 just drop. 4 the floor. 5 It didn't It was, you know, definitely stuck into And so that was a concern because that was 6 within arm's reach of the subject. 7 it was involved, but it appeared to be a dagger that I 8 am familiar with, that I know a lot of law enforcement 9 officers carry. 10 I wasn't sure if I carry one personally. And so I remember seeing that and thinking, 11 that's something I need to be aware of. 12 what was addressed at the start when we initially 13 approached the subject. 14 And so that's And then at the end of it when we were 15 actually treating him and passing him off to medical, 16 we discovered that he had been tased. 17 actually removed the -- the Taser barbs out of him 18 before passing him off to medical. 19 And so we And we discovered that, actually, underneath 20 him, kind of in the chaos of all this was actually a 21 Portland Police Bureau Taser I assumed belonged to 22 Officer Vosu at the time. 23 wrapped around the person. 24 25 But it was actually kind of The -- the Taser wires and everything were kind of wrapped around. And so that was something 134 Examination of Justin Raphael 1 else that was, like, well, that's interesting. 2 didn't realize that was there and so we noted that 3 as well. 4 Q I And what, if anything, did you do with 5 Desmond or the rest of the scene after you made those 6 observations? 7 A Sure. So once the scene goes cold, so to 8 speak, the subject is removed; Officer Vosu's taken 9 care of. 10 process. 11 You know, we -- we begin to secure and And so just because in my initial 12 involvement and getting there first and seeing the 13 scene and -- and treating the subject, you know, I was 14 kind of removed; and, you know, put in a stagnant 15 position where I wasn't going to be given any busy 16 work, certainly, on the scene. 17 standing by. 18 So I was kind of At some point, we wanted to get Desmond into 19 a -- kind of removed from the scene and secured and 20 kind of calmed down. 21 with him, basically. And so I volunteered to hang out 22 Q Mm-hmm. 23 A And I walked him down to a bus that we had. 24 We had a TriMet bus for him to stay warm in. And I 25 put Desmond in a bus and hung out with him for several 135 Examination of Justin Raphael 1 minutes and kind of calmed him down. 2 food and some water and just kind of brought him back 3 down to Earth, if you will. 4 I gave him some And then once he was secure, I passed him 5 off to somebody else and I went back and was basically 6 hanging out 'til I was told otherwise. 7 Q When you say trying to talk him down and 8 bring him down to Earth, what was going on with 9 Mr. Pescaia at the scene? 10 A When I saw -- I mean, he was -- he was -- 11 you could tell, was amped up. 12 he -- he was right there in the thick of it was my 13 understanding. 14 I mean, he -- you know, So he -- he -- he was excited and he was, 15 you know, just very up and down. 16 minute, he -- he would seem okay and the next minute, 17 he'd be sobbing. 18 You know, one So you could tell he was just very affected 19 by this event. And so it was just important to, like 20 I said, try to -- try to keep him in a state of mind 21 that was, I guess, as calm as possible. 22 Q Do you recall who put the handcuffs on 23 Mr. Gladen? 24 A I believe it was me and Officer Letter. 25 Q So he -- he was not in handcuffs when you 136 Examination of Justin Raphael 1 arrived with Mr. -- when Officer Vosu had -- had him 2 at gunpoint? 3 A Absolutely not, no. So when -- when we -- 4 when we removed Officer Vosu from the scene and we 5 made entry, because the -- Mr. Gladen on the ground 6 was kind of halfway in the -- the gray room and 7 halfway in a bedroom. 8 around him to begin this process of wound triaging and 9 rendering aid, it was a pretty tight space. 10 And so when we kind of moved And so when we -- when we had to apply the 11 handcuffs, we had to roll him over and -- and apply 12 them ourselves right there in that kind of tight 13 space. 14 believe it was Officer Letter on the other and we did, 15 you know, kind of a joint handcuffing. And I was on his -- I was on one side and I 16 MR. HANNON: 17 any other follow-up questions? 18 Okay. A GRAND JUROR: Do the grand jurors have You mentioned that it 19 appeared that he had been tased. 20 remove the Taser -- 21 THE WITNESS: 22 A GRAND JUROR: 23 THE WITNESS: Did you actually We did, yes. -- barbs from the body? We did. When we were passing 24 him off to medical -- obviously, he can't take all 25 that stuff with him. That's going to interfere. And 137 Examination of Justin Raphael 1 so the medical -- it was either AMR or PFB, one of 2 them asked, "Hey, we need to get those out of him." 3 And so we just -- you know, if you're not 4 familiar with Tasers, they're nothing but a little 5 fish hook. 6 them out. 7 all of that where it was. 8 9 They come out very easily. You just pull And so we just removed the darts and left A GRAND JUROR: Do you remember where they were -- 10 THE WITNESS: I do not. 11 A GRAND JUROR: 12 THE WITNESS: -- on him? No. I do remember both darts 13 were deployed, both darts were in, but I -- I do not 14 remember specifically where. 15 16 MR. HANNON: be excused? Anybody else? May this witness All right. 17 A GRAND JUROR: 18 MR. HANNON: 19 Can you just raise your right hand? 20 Have a good day. (Indiscernible). All right. I'm going to swear you in. 21 DAVIS KILE 22 Was thereupon called as a witness; and, having been 23 first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows: 24 //// 25 EXAMINATION 138 Examination of Davis Kile 1 2 3 4 5 BY MR. HANNON: Q All right. Could you please state and spell your name for the record. A Yeah. My name is Davis Kile. Davis, D-a-v-i-s. First name is Last name is Kile, K-i-l-e. 6 Q And how are you currently employed? 7 A I'm a sergeant with the Portland Police 8 9 10 11 12 Bureau. I've been employed there for almost 18 years. Q And what's your current position with the Portland Police Bureau? A I'm a supervisor and I work out of East Precinct. 13 Q And rank of sergeant? 14 A Correct. 15 Q And how long you been a sergeant? 16 A About 15 months. 17 Q And how -- and have you been a sergeant at 18 East Precinct the entire time? 19 A Yes. 20 Q And could you briefly summarize just the 21 training and experience you've had as a Portland 22 Police sergeant or officer for the last 18 years? 23 A Well, besides several weeks of training 24 every year as a police officer that Portland gives 25 you, so I have, obviously, the basic certification 139 Examination of Davis Kile 1 training, which is -- I think in Portland, the course 2 is 26 weeks worth. 3 And once you get promoted as a sergeant, 4 there's a special, two-week academy for new sergeants. 5 And the City of Portland puts on an additional one 6 year of training for new sergeants as well. 7 Q And turning your attention to this 8 particular investigation, were you serving or acting 9 as a sergeant at East Precinct in -- involved in 10 Incident Case No. 19-6556? 11 A Yes. 12 Q And how did you become involved in this 13 14 incident? A What was going on that day? I was in the office and I heard over the 15 radio Officer Vosu say shots were fired. 16 course, my ears perk up as a supervisor when I hear 17 that. 18 this location. 19 Q Which, of So I left the office and immediately went to And when you went to the location, what was 20 one of the first things you observed when you arrived 21 there? 22 A So I think I was the first supervisor that 23 arrived on scene. As I pulled up to the door, I saw 24 Officer Vosu being walked out by Officer Storm 25 (phonetic). 140 Examination of Davis Kile 1 Officer Storm and I made eye contact and he 2 informed me that he was taking Officer Vosu with him 3 as a partner, you know, to keep him isolated from 4 everyone else. 5 That's the buddy system. So once I saw he was taken care of, I went 6 inside the house to see what's going inside the house 7 where the shooting occurred. 8 Q And let's just take a step back and talk 9 about that. When we talk about the "buddy system" and 10 "isolate," what -- what -- why is that and what does 11 that entail? 12 A Well, you know, for Officer Vosu to have 13 someone with him to make sure he doesn't talk to 14 anybody about what happened; to make sure that, you 15 know, he has someone who's -- can help release some of 16 the stress of the situation. 17 When someone's involved in a shooting, it's 18 obviously very stressful. 19 someone with you who maybe wasn't involved just to 20 help you through the steps of the process. 21 Q And it's helpful to have So, in other words, despite being in this 22 elevated situation and -- he is isolated and not 23 allowed to talk to anybody? 24 A That's correct. 25 Q And that's, I assume, Portland Police 141 Examination of Davis Kile 1 policy? 2 A That is correct. 3 Q So this system is set up so that you can 4 maintain the integrity of the evidence while also 5 having him have some support so he's not completely 6 alone? 7 A That is correct. And that support person 8 may be the one who would notify a family member. 9 say, "Hey, this officer was involved in a -- in a 10 deadly force situation. 11 just to make sure that (indiscernible) there. 12 Q They He's okay or" -- and -- and When you arrived at the scene and you saw 13 Officer Vosu being walked out, what -- what -- what 14 happened next? 15 A So I went inside of the house to see what 16 was going on inside the -- in the scene. 17 as I passed -- I believe his name was Desmond. 18 sitting on the front steps. 19 What I saw He was He appeared to be okay. I walked past him into the house and I saw 20 three officers working -- providing medical care to 21 the subject that was down on the ground. 22 officers were Officer Raphael, Officer Ross and 23 Officer Letter. 24 25 Those three And the first thing I wanted to find out from these officers was: Is there anyone else 142 Examination of Davis Kile 1 injured? 2 threats outstanding that I don't know about? 3 Is there anyone else hurt? Is there any And the response I got was no. The person 4 they were working on was the only injured person and 5 that there was no more threats at that time. 6 Q And as you observed that and -- and 7 documented that, being the sergeant, were you then, at 8 that point, the person in charge of the scene until 9 others arrived? 10 A That is correct. 11 Q And -- and being in charge of the scene at 12 that point, what -- what next did you do in observing 13 him being medically treated while maintaining the 14 integrity of the scene? 15 A So my job is I want -- you know, obviously, 16 providing medical care was my first decision to do. 17 And another officer walked in right behind me with a 18 medical kit. 19 the person that needed medical attention. 20 And -- and they were working on -- on So, at that point, I spoke with Sergeant 21 Sliter, who also showed up. 22 the outside scene, of the perimeter to make sure 23 everything was set up there. 24 inside scene. 25 I put him in charge of And I took charge of the My main concern was, you know, making sure 143 Examination of Davis Kile 1 medical professionals have access in there so they can 2 treat the person now. 3 there's no other roommates in the house that could 4 accidentally come across the scene and maybe 5 contaminate evidence that may have been -- been there. 6 And we're going to make sure And I also -- as they were working on the 7 person giving medical care, I just took a couple 8 photographs of what was around me 'cause I know from 9 18 years of being a police officer, a lot of times 10 when medical personnel arrive, they're going to come 11 six to eight firemen, a couple ambulance workers. 12 You know, and their main priority is medical 13 care, not necessarily evidence that might be rolling 14 around. 15 understandably. 16 of the scene and sat before anything was going to be 17 disturbed. 18 Q 19 20 21 That's not their primary concern, So I just took a couple photographs And is this one of the photographs that you took? A That is. I was standing right behind the officer holding the red bag, obviously. 22 Q And that red bag, what bag was that? 23 A So that's our medical kit that we have in 24 our police cars. They have trauma bandages and -- you 25 know, it's more than just Band-Aids. It was for major 144 Examination of Davis Kile 1 2 trauma injuries, as we are trained (indiscernible). Q So, in other words, you're taking that photo 3 almost live as they're medically trying to treat 4 Mr. Gladen and that is what you observed at the scene 5 as that is occurring? 6 A That is correct. 7 Q And what -- what -- what was that a -- what 8 9 -- why'd you take a picture of that? A So this photo, this is after the person 10 getting medical treatment was taken by the ambulance. 11 And he was laying on top of a Taser. 12 yellow device is there. 13 wires laying there. 14 take that picture to show that he was laying on top 15 of that. 16 Q That's what that And that -- there's also I thought that was necessary to So for geography purposes, when the officers 17 have arrived to provide medical attention and to treat 18 the individual, geographically, this is where he was 19 laying when they were treating him? 20 A That's correct. 21 Q Okay. 22 23 And is that just the same photo, but just different angle or -A So, yeah. So there's also, additionally, in 24 the corner by the wires, a -- a -- or plugged into the 25 wall -- 145 Examination of Davis Kile 1 Q Mm-hmm. 2 A -- I found -- I -- I can't remember. I 3 think it was three or four shell casings, which, you 4 know, obviously, when a shot is fired out of a gun, a 5 shell casing's going to come out. 6 laying in that corner, so I wanted to get a 7 photographs of where those were. 8 9 10 Q Okay. And they were And what was it -- what -- why'd you take a photo of this? A So this photo is from inside that bedroom. 11 And it's looking out. 12 that lamp in the corner, I found a bullet hole. 13 the -- that led me to believe that possibly shooting 14 was shot in that direction. 15 And what happened is behind So And so knowing that information, I wanted to 16 go outside the house, obviously, to make sure that 17 bullets didn't exit the house and hit anyone else or 18 there's no other property damage. 19 I wanted to make sure that those rounds were 20 accounted for. And so that was just an idea of where 21 -- where the shots came from and where I found the 22 bullet hole. 23 Q And were those all the photographs? 24 A Yes. 25 Q And you -- and when other personnel and 146 Examination of Davis Kile 1 detectives started arriving at scene, was there a 2 briefing -- preliminary briefing at the scene before 3 further investigation and assignments were handed out? 4 A Yes. 5 Q And were you part of that briefing and 6 outlining both the photographs and what you observed 7 as you arrived at the scene? 8 A Yes, I was. 9 MR. HANNON: 10 All right. 11 Okay. Do the grand jurors have any other questions? 12 And may this witness be excused? 13 Okay. 14 THE WITNESS: 15 MR. HANNON: 16 And I know we're approaching the noon hour. Thank you. Thank you. 17 We have one other witness that we could try to 18 accomplish before the lunch hour if that works for the 19 grand jury or would you like to break and come back? 20 A GRAND JUROR: 21 MR. HANNON: 22 A GRAND JUROR: 23 MR. HANNON: 24 25 We've got 15 minutes. Oh, great. I'm just messing with you. If you just stand right there and raise your right hand. AARON HOLWEGE 147 Examination of Aaron Holwege 1 Was thereupon called as a witness; and, having been 2 first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows: 3 EXAMINATION 4 5 BY MR. HANNON: Q 6 7 8 9 All right. Go ahead and have a seat. And could you please state and spell your name for the record A Aaron Holwege, A-a-r-o-n; Holwege, H-o-l-w-e-g-e. 10 Q And how are you currently employed? 11 A The City of Portland Police Bureau. 12 Q And how long have you been with the City of 13 Portland Police Bureau? 14 A Ten years end of March coming up, so -- 15 Q And what's your current assignment? 16 A I work East Precinct. 17 I work the I shift or E shift. 18 Q And how long have you worked that shift? 19 A Pretty much -- it's where I've been since 20 21 I've been hired -- or after training. Q So I'm going to turn your attention to a 22 report dated January 8th of 2019, Case No. 19-6286. 23 Do you recall authoring that report? 24 A I do. 25 Q And was that kind of a retroactive report? 148 Examination of Aaron Holwege 1 Like, not a report you wrote the day of the incident, 2 but in -- after learning the relevance of that 3 incident as it equates to the matter before the grand 4 jury today? 5 A I did. I was contacted by my lieutenant, 6 who got me into contact with the investigating 7 detective, who asked me to write that report to get a 8 timeline before he (indiscernible). 9 Q And was it close in time to the incident 10 that you were able to refresh -- refresh your memory 11 pretty easily to account for that, the events that you 12 observed that day? 13 A Yeah, I felt like it was. 14 Q Okay. 15 16 In your own words, what -- what is it that occurred on January 6th that you were reporting? A I was called as a primary officer to a 17 disturbance call involving a known subject had -- 18 there was a bat involved in the call. 19 location I was somewhat familiar with, had been to 20 multiple times. 21 So it was a By the time I arrived on scene at the 22 location where this disturbance was taking place, one 23 half of this disturbance was no longer at the 24 location. 25 Q And the two persons involved in the call, 149 Examination of Aaron Holwege 1 was that Diamond Randolph and Andre Gladen? 2 A I believe it was, yes. 3 Q Okay. 4 Who was the person who was not at the scene when you responded to the call? 5 A Mr. Gladen was -- was no longer there. 6 Q And who did you interview at the scene when 7 you took the complaint? 8 A I spoke to -- I believe it was Diamond. 9 Q Mm-hmm. 10 A Did you say Phillips? 11 Q Randolph. 12 A Oh, Diamond Randolph. 13 Q That's all right. 14 A Diamond was there. I'm sorry. She came to the door. I 15 observed a suitcase and some clothing just outside the 16 door. 17 doesn't live here." She said, "He's got to go. 18 He's got to go. He I was somewhat familiar with the location. 19 I knew that she -- she had allowed, on occasion, to 20 let, I believe, Mr. Gladen sleep on the site of the -- 21 the location. 22 location. 23 one of his eyes. Someone whose come and gone from this And I knew that Mr. Gladen had no vision in 24 Q Mm-hmm. 25 A I inquired about this bat. I'm thinking 150 Examination of Aaron Holwege 1 it's going to be a full-sized bat. 2 it was a -- a souvenir-type bat -- Come to find out 3 Q Mm-hmm. 4 A -- that you'd get at, like, a -- a baseball 5 game. I don't know if you guys have seen -- it's just 6 a smaller bat, 12 to maybe 16 inches in length. 7 asked about the bat. 8 9 "Did he swing it at you?" "No, he just had it in his hand." "Okay." I I looked for this bat. I said, Just looking around, 10 didn't see a bat anywhere. 11 she said he was using a -- a pocketknife to stab at a 12 cardboard box. 13 And she talked about -- I said, "Well, okay. 14 was just" -- I said, "Okay. 15 the knife and with that?" 16 stabbing at a box." 17 live here. 19 and Division 7-Eleven. 20 where he likes to go." 21 What was he doing with "That was it. And I said, "Okay." 18 There's a box and he He's just She said, "He doesn't He doesn't live here. He ran off to 148th That's where he went. That's So there was at least two other units on the 22 call with me. I area checked up near the 7-Eleven. 23 The other units, I'm not sure where they area checked, 24 but I specifically focused up there 'cause that's 25 where she -- she thought he had gone. Entering him 151 Examination of Aaron Holwege 1 into my computer, his last known address shows to be 2 that location where I was. 3 Q Meaning Ms. Randolph's location? 4 A Yeah. So some sort of a residency had been 5 established there some -- at some time. She mentioned 6 to me about earlier in the week, that he had broken 7 in. 8 there, that's -- that's not a crime. Well, again, if he -- if he has a residence 9 I -- through my investigation, that -- there 10 was no crime that had taken place. 11 from the location. 12 Mr. Gladen in my initial on-scene talking with 13 Diamond. 14 15 16 Q So he took off So I did not make any contact with And did you have a -- ever have an occasion to see Mr. Gladen later in this period of time? A I did. There was -- once my area check was 17 done with the other officers, I had made some notes 18 and cleared off of that particular incident. 19 A short time later, there was a -- another 20 call -- a call into police, a location -- 145th area 21 and Division, which would be across the street to the 22 south of where I was earlier on that call -- on a 23 call. 24 moaning and they could hear something, someone. 25 And they talked about somebody in the bushes And so while I was clearing off this earlier 152 Examination of Aaron Holwege 1 call, I put two and two together. 2 likely going to be the person who just left my -- my 3 earlier call." 4 I said, "Most So I attached and started back that 5 direction where other officers were already on scene 6 where they had located a male in the bushes next to 7 some shrubbery and some fencing. 8 9 In the -- in the updates by dispatch and officers on the scene, they walked about finding some 10 syringes next to the -- the subject. 11 saw the syringes or -- or recovered them. 12 time I got on scene, AMR was already on scene. 13 had been requested by officers. 14 Q AMR meaning paramedics? 15 A Correct, paramedics. I never actually So by the That They were moving the 16 -- who we knew as now Mr. Gladen from the bushes area. 17 He was -- eyes were closed, was not talking. 18 the temperature outside was cold. 19 mid-to-upper 30s. It was cold. The -- It was, I believe, He had no shirt on. 20 Q Mm-hmm. 21 A The jeans he had on were down below his -- 22 his knees. 23 they got -- came out of the bushes, I assisted that 24 last ten feet putting Mr. Gladen on the -- on the 25 gurney. He had some boxer shorts on. And so as 153 Examination of Aaron Holwege 1 Q And, obviously, you discussed earlier you 2 didn't believe there was a trespass issue and it 3 sounds like you didn't believe that there was 4 assaultive issues in your interview with Ms. Randolph. 5 So did you believe that there was any cause to arrest 6 Mr. Gladen based on what you learned or the 7 observations? 8 9 A No. Being at the original call, saw no visible signs of injury of any kind. This particular 10 bat was not swung. It was only held 11 by Mr. Gladen. 12 It was not used. He had established a residency there, so 13 there was no trespass. 14 being at the medical scene, being that he had -- he 15 was not dressed for the weather -- 16 Q Mm-hmm. 17 A -- for sure. So at the point of him not Cold, not talking to 18 paramedics; eyes were closed; not -- not really 19 responsive. 20 point, everybody on scene -- it was a medical issue. 21 I don't know if it was hypothermia. 22 professional, but we felt he needed to go up to the 23 hospital. Loaded him on and then we -- at that I'm not a medical 24 Q So for help? 25 A Some sort of medical evaluation. 154 Examination of Aaron Holwege 1 Q Okay. And is that -- was that your request 2 or is that what you asked the paramedics or AMR to do 3 with him? 4 5 A I was not the one who requested medical. Again, I showed up once medical was already there. 6 Q Gotcha. 7 A I know that he's given a patdown and the day 8 shift -- or whoever AMR was that day, they said 9 they're going to be on scene for a few minutes doing 10 some additional tests or whatever they do before they 11 make transport. 12 Q Got you. 13 A That's what they told me 'cause I asked, 14 "Are you guys good?" 15 good." 16 Q 17 And they said, "Yes, we're And I cleared. I cleared that scene. And do you know -- do you happen to know where they were going to take him for medical? 18 A I -- I don't know where they took him. 19 Q Okay. 20 A Most likely, whatever is green, they call 21 available. 22 Q Mm-hmm. 23 A They'll take him to the closest hospital 24 25 that's in that -- in that area. Q And is Portland Adventist close to this 155 Examination of Aaron Holwege 1 2 3 location? A Yes. MR. HANNON: Okay. Do the grand jurors have 4 any follow-up questions? 5 A GRAND JUROR: 6 MR. HANNON: 7 A GRAND JUROR: 8 MR. HANNON: 9 THE WITNESS: 10 MR. HANNON: 11 the testimony for this morning. 12 noon break. Hmm-mm. May this witness be excused? Yes. Great, thank you. Thank you. And I think that will conclude So we'll take our 13 * * * 14 (Noon Recess taken at 12:05 p.m.) 15 16 17 AFTERNOON SESSION (Whereupon, the following proceedings were 18 held in before the grand jury, 1:46 p.m.:)We are back 19 on the record. 20 Oh, thank you. 21 A GRAND JUROR: 22 MR. HANNON: Uh-huh. We are back on the record on DA 23 Case No. 2395300. On behalf of the State, Dave Hannon 24 and Nicole Bockelman, ready to start our afternoon 25 session and call our next witness, Officer Howery. 156 Examination of Josh Howery 1 2 Go ahead and stand right there. Raise your right hand and we'll swear you in. 3 JOSH HOWERY 4 Was thereupon called as a witness; and, having been 5 first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows: 6 A GRAND JUROR: 7 MR. HANNON: 8 9 10 11 Thank you. Go ahead and have a seat. EXAMINATION BY MR. HANNON: Q And can you start by stating and spelling your name for the record. 12 A My name is Josh Howery, H-o-w-e-r-y. 13 Q And how are you currently employed? 14 A I am a Portland police officer currently 15 assigned to the Tactical Operations Division and the 16 Special Emergency Reaction Team. 17 18 Q Okay. And how long have you been with the Portland Police Bureau? 19 A 18 years. 20 Q And can you just briefly summarize some of 21 the training and experience that you have as part of 22 building your career to become a Portland police 23 officer? 24 25 A Yes. I attended the basic police academy. I've attended the advanced police academy. I've 157 Examination of Josh Howery 1 worked on the street for several years. 2 in detectives. 3 I've worked I've investigated sex trafficking. And then in 2012, I was assigned to the 4 Training Division as the lead control tactics 5 instructor. 6 satellite instructor school for that discipline. 7 then in 2012 was assigned full time to the Training 8 Division. 9 So before that, I had gone through a -- a But During that time, I was responsible for 10 teaching advanced academy and in-service to the entire 11 Bureau for all of our defensive tactics, our control 12 tactics, various other patrol tactics. 13 I'm also a patrol tactic -- or a patrol 14 procedures instructor and a firearms instructor. 15 have attended Force Science as an analyst, which is an 16 organization that certifies officers to be analysts in 17 force events. 18 Q 19 background? 20 A 21 22 And, just briefly, what was your educational I'm sorry. I -- I attended George Fox University with a bachelor's. Q And let's go back to the forensic science 23 analyst's training. 24 What is that? 25 I A Describe that for the grand jury. That is a 40-hour class that Force Science, 158 Examination of Josh Howery 1 as the -- as the company, puts on. 2 at the end. 3 force events as it -- as it relates to times, like, 4 events. 5 We take a big test It -- it involves analyzing aspects of So, for instance, if it takes a certain 6 amount of time physiologically to, say, draw a weapon 7 and fire it, they do a lot of tests they do to find 8 out, okay, what can the average officer -- how fast 9 can they draw their weapon? 10 How fast does it take a suspect to produce a 11 weapon? 12 cover a certain amount of distance? 13 these tests and then they -- they have a curriculum, 14 so we -- we go there. 15 How fast does it take a -- a -- a suspect to So they do all So we're -- we're certified by the end of 16 that to analyze a force event and say, "Well, this may 17 be why things turned out they way they did. 18 is why an officer would react the way they did just 19 based on what the human is -- the human body is 20 physically capable of." 21 22 Q And this And going -- working our way back, you said you work with a patrol procedure instructor? 23 A Yes. 24 Q And explain that. 25 A In the academy, the -- the training is split What is that? 159 Examination of Josh Howery 1 up into various disciplines. 2 would be, you know, our hand to hand, our arrest 3 techniques, like those things. 4 Our control tactics The firearms would be a skill of shooting in 5 regard to the control procedures. When it comes to 6 that, they -- that's the discipline where officers 7 really learn how to act as a police officer. 8 they do a lot of scenario training. They -- 9 So what they do is they take the hard skills 10 that they've learned in the other disciplines and they 11 put them together so when they're actually doing a 12 real-life type of event as a police officer, they're 13 able to use those skills in figuring out how to make 14 the outcome the way they want it. 15 Q And so in -- in that -- following that train 16 of thought then, all the different skill sets that 17 officers learn or are trained to learn, is there a 18 spectrum of options available to officers given the 19 various scenarios on how to react to those scenarios? 20 A Yes. 21 Q And so starting on the kind of lower end or 22 the lowest end in the spectrum, you know, what are 23 some of the various methods or techniques or tactics 24 that any officer can use to kind of try to get control 25 of a situation? 160 Examination of Josh Howery 1 A It -- it starts from just showing up to a 2 call with their mere presence and then things step up, 3 they can use verbal techniques to try to give 4 direction. 5 could ask questions to -- to try to get the -- the -- 6 the -- the results they're looking for. 7 They could try to give commands. They And above that, then it may go to a -- a 8 control hold, hands-on techniques; all the way up to 9 if a person starts to resist or this person becomes a 10 threat to the officer or somebody else, they may use 11 less-lethal tools, pepper spray, batons, Tasers and -- 12 and -- and so forth all the way up to deadly force. 13 Q And -- and so you are an instructor for all 14 of these various trainings to assist officers both 15 with what standard practices are and then changes or 16 updates in the techniques to better enhance their 17 ability to patrol on the streets? 18 A Yes, that's correct. 19 Q So -- and as part of that training either 20 that you put on or that you have also been part of, is 21 there an aspect of training also involved with the 22 kind of sanctity of human life or the value of life 23 for officers to learn and be trained on as well? 24 25 A Yes. And that's -- that's interwoven with all of the training, so they understand that, hey, 161 Examination of Josh Howery 1 we're going out into the public and we're servants. 2 We are trying to help people. 3 The -- the idea is within their -- their 4 careers, they are going to come into situations where 5 they have to deal with conflict both toward themselves 6 and between other people. 7 that they resolve those complications, that they 8 actually take action in some cases. 9 The -- the expectation is But whenever they can, they try to do 10 that with as little reliance on force as possible. 11 And that's interwoven through the training. 12 interwoven through the policy. 13 It's You know, hey, we understand that officers 14 are supposed to take care of these things. 15 can, we would like you to use less force than we -- 16 if -- if you can get away with it. 17 Q If you And -- and in -- in that -- and consistent 18 with that train of thought, has the Portland Police 19 Bureau, itself, developed practices and trainings 20 related to people who either, A, may be undergoing 21 some sort of mental health crisis; or, B, some sort of 22 severe intoxication; or, C, a combination thereof that 23 would try to deescalate those situations? 24 25 A Yes. And -- and, really, in any situation, you know, we try to deescalate a situation whenever we 162 Examination of Josh Howery 1 can, right? 2 to go in and try to use force in every single 3 situation, but -- and then especially in certain 4 circumstances, heavy intoxication, mental illness, any 5 of that sort of thing, if you know that that condition 6 exists and you can safely resolve the confrontation 7 and you can do that by deescalating the situation 8 if -- if the situation allows you to do that, you 9 should absolutely do that. 10 Q There's not -- officers are not trained And when we're talking about deescalation, 11 obviously, in this current environment, there's kind 12 of a -- certainly, as you said, a mere presence of an 13 officer may be enough to get control of a situation. 14 But the deescalation is not just necessarily 15 between a person that comes in contact with an 16 officer, is it? 17 officer may also be trying to deescalate a situation 18 between two individuals or three individuals and that 19 the officer's not even a part of? 20 A I mean, is it possible that an Yes, absolutely right. 21 and start using verbal commands. 22 warnings. 23 Officer may come in They may be giving They may just, "Hey, hello." In some cases, I've seen officers deescalate 24 a situation where people were fighting by driving up 25 with their lights and siren on just letting folks 163 Examination of Josh Howery 1 know, hey, the police are here and they don't want to 2 be doing, you know, their bad acting where they start 3 to split off. 4 All those things could be a form of 5 deescalation; but, yeah. 6 an officer needs to interject himself into that 7 situation because the situation between two people is 8 getting out of hand and they need to interject and 9 actually get in between there, thus maybe making that 10 11 On the other hand, sometimes situation deescalate just physically intervening. Q So is there training as to the various forms 12 of use of force, starting from that low end of just 13 mere presence or verbal commands all the way up to 14 less-lethal force, using items you mentioned, pepper 15 spray, ASP baton, Taser? That training occurs? 16 A Yes. 17 Q And then is -- what is the difference 18 between less-lethal force and then lethal or deadly or 19 dangerous force? 20 A Less-lethal force is force that's not likely 21 to cause serious physical injury or death. 22 force would be considered force that's -- is likely to 23 cause serious physical injury or death. 24 25 Lethal The -- the tools that an officer typically carries or is issued on their -- as part of their 164 Examination of Josh Howery 1 uniform would be their -- their firearm for deadly 2 force. 3 Q And is there kind of -- from your 4 understanding and research as a training officer 5 and with all this experience in the advance academy, 6 in-service, patrol procedure instruction as well as 7 Force Science analytics, is there an understanding as 8 to what the federal minimal requirements under federal 9 law that would allow an officer to engage in lethal 10 11 use of force? A Yes. As I understand State law, officers 12 can use deadly force to arrest somebody or keep 13 themselves from being harmed. 14 When it comes to the arrest part, what I 15 should say here is there are certain laws or certain 16 -- yeah, certain laws that if the suspect is -- there 17 are certain crimes that the -- the suspect is 18 creating, the State law -- the State statute 19 authorizes an officer to use deadly force to take that 20 person into custody with -- for those -- for 21 those crimes. 22 It also -- it -- it goes on to say, hey, if 23 somebody is committing a felony crime involving the 24 infliction of harm against a person, that that may be 25 also authorized to use deadly force against 165 Examination of Josh Howery 1 that person. 2 But -- and then when it comes down to it, 3 it says, anytime that the officer's personal safety is 4 in -- is in question, the officer would be authorized 5 to use deadly force. 6 Q Now, that -- that's a bare minimum. Does 7 the -- 8 A Yes. 9 Q -- does the Portland Police Bureau train or 10 instruct that it's sufficient for their officers 11 and -- and their review or their training to just go 12 by the bare minimum when being trained on when they 13 can use or attempt to use lethal force? 14 A No. And then the -- the Portland Police 15 Bureau has its own policy on use of force and they 16 have its own policy on deadly use of force. 17 teach in our advanced academy, when we teach any of 18 our officers, we do not teach down to a standard of 19 the State minimum. 20 When we We -- we teach only to the policy because it 21 is a stricter standard. It is harder to get to that 22 place. 23 force to protect themselves or others from what -- 24 from what they reasonably believe to be an immediate 25 threat of death or serious physical injury. And what it says is an officer may use deadly 166 Examination of Josh Howery 1 Q And that is not the minimal requirement? 2 A That's correct. 3 Q And is -- is it -- do you have an 4 understanding as to why the -- the Portland Police 5 Bureau would have -- or train its officers to kind of 6 create that heightened requirements to use that kind 7 of force versus what would be allowed by State law? 8 9 A I think part of it comes down to the sanctity of life statement that we talked about 10 before. 11 is -- is sacred. 12 avoid taking a life. 13 deadly force when we didn't have to. 14 The Bureau understands that, hey, life is -And we wouldn't -- we would try to We will try to avoid using And if we have other means of resolving a 15 confrontation that's less than deadly force, even 16 though it may be authorized, if you could do something 17 else, well, why -- why would you not do that? 18 the -- so, in that case, the Bureau is encouraging 19 officers or, in most cases, requiring them to look for 20 other avenues to resolve that confrontation before 21 resorting to deadly force. 22 Q So And in that -- in that train of thought, is 23 it required for police officers to fill out 24 use-of-force reports when they have to use certain 25 amounts of force in their -- in the field? 167 Examination of Josh Howery 1 A Yes. 2 Q And are those use-of-force reports reviewed 3 for purposes of training and oversight to make sure 4 that it's consistent with the Bureau's policies and 5 practices for additional training? 6 A Yes. 7 Q If there's any lapses or if there's any -- 8 well, let me rephrase. As an instructor, do you use 9 some scenarios that you see in real life or on the 10 street in your interactions with officers as models to 11 create scenario-based trainings to come up with 12 reasonable uses of force in those scenarios? 13 A Yes. 14 Q And -- and just give us maybe one or two 15 16 examples of what that -- what that would look like. A We will take some real-life example 17 sometimes in the -- an officer-involved shooting. 18 Sometimes it could just be a significant-force event 19 and we return that into a -- into a scenario for 20 officers to go through, sometimes changing small 21 nuances of the way that call went, but making a -- a 22 scenario where an officer can go through and have to 23 make certain decisions along the way, certain decision 24 points so they could say, "Hey, I want to do this or I 25 want to do this." 168 Examination of Josh Howery 1 And they're trying to make -- they're -- 2 they're trying to resolve the confrontation a -- a 3 certain way. 4 We have different personalities. 5 a scenario a different way. 6 Each officer is a little bit different. And so they may see And then what we let them do is we let the 7 actors in the scenario play off of that. 8 they -- they would be able to make a decision point 9 whether they need to use force or not use force. 10 And then If they did -- if they used too much force, 11 we would be able to correct that. 12 enough force and the situation got out of hand, then 13 we would be able to correct that and say, "Hey, look. 14 Look what some of these decisions could lead to." 15 Q If they didn't use And in that scenario-based training, do -- 16 do the actors -- or in re-reviewing or analyzing after 17 incident reports, does that include incidences where 18 people are going through a mental health crisis or 19 heavily intoxicated as well? 20 A Yes. 21 Q So let's talk about -- and in those 22 scenarios -- actually, let me just ask one more 23 question, those scenarios. 24 25 In those scenarios and reviews, is it just the critical decision points or is it important to 169 Examination of Josh Howery 1 talk from the beginning of the call to the end of the 2 call in those scenarios so that they can go through 3 each step of the call to figure out what would be 4 reasonable uses of force throughout the call? 5 A We try to look at it all the way from the 6 beginning, everything that the officer knew at 7 the time. 8 9 Q And let -- and let's talk about that because -- what -- what is -- what are the principles 10 of action versus reaction when we're talking about 11 these scenarios and what an officer can and can't do? 12 A We teach the principle of action/reaction 13 and it -- it comes down to almost a scientific 14 equation. 15 time, the initiator of an action, the person who moves 16 first, will have an advantage over the person 17 reacting. 18 But the way we say it is, in a contest of And then we look at different instances of 19 that. 20 for instance, right? 21 person's job is to react to the other person trying to 22 slap their hands all of a sudden, that person that 23 gets to move first usually has an advantage. 24 25 If we play certain games, hand slapping games, If one person's hand is -- one We look at other real-life situations where action/reaction comes into play. For instance, 170 Examination of Josh Howery 1 stoplights. If we're driving down the street and we 2 see a stoplight change from green to yellow, that's an 3 indication that our right of way is being ended and 4 that we need to stop our car. 5 However, traffic engineers also, they build 6 in a -- a time buffer, if you will, because they know 7 that it will take almost a second and a half as a 8 person is driving a car to realize that that light has 9 changed from green to yellow and for them to actually 10 make the decision to stop and to actually start to 11 move their -- their foot from the gas pedal to the 12 brake. 13 It takes almost a second and a half just to 14 get that initial movement and then whatever time it 15 takes for -- to actually stop the car. 16 depends a lot on how fast the car is traveling. 17 just the reaction time, itself, is about a second and 18 a half. 19 And that But And then we take that down to some more 20 police-specific times and we talk -- we talk about if 21 a person -- how long does it take an officer to 22 actually draw a gun out of their holster? 23 But then also, how long does it take an 24 officer to actually react to a threat and make the 25 decision to even draw the gun out of the holster or 171 Examination of Josh Howery 1 make a decision to even pull the trigger? 2 is some -- there is a time lag there. 3 And there And what we've found through some of these 4 research exercises is that it takes about a quarter of 5 a second for the human mind, even if an officer only 6 has to react to one stimulus and they see something -- 7 you know, they're -- they're waiting for one specific 8 change, it'll take them about a quarter second to 9 actually decide to move and then about another 18th -- 10 18 hundredths of a second to actually move. 11 And if that's pulling a trigger when they 12 see a light come on, it'll take that quarter second to 13 make the decision and then a little bit longer to 14 actually pull the trigger. 15 Q So in the scenario of dealing with someone 16 who poses a threat, whether it's involving less-lethal 17 harm or lethal harm, what are the advantages of the 18 person who's in confrontation with the officer? 19 A They know when they're going to make that 20 move -- first move. 21 know what their capabilities are. 22 case if they have a weapon concealed, they know that 23 they have it where the officer may not. 24 25 The officer has to wait. They They know -- in the And then they -- then, again, just by -just because of the reaction time for any decision to 172 Examination of Josh Howery 1 be made, at least a quarter second ahead in the 2 thought process. 3 They don't have a reactionary time that 4 they're -- they're bound by. When they start to move, 5 that's when the time starts. And then anything that 6 happens after that is -- is a reaction to what that 7 first move is. 8 9 Q And in your scenario-based trainings or under controlled settings, is it fair to say that 10 those controlled settings, while trying to be 11 real-life scenarios, are less stressful than actual 12 real-life scenarios out on the street? 13 A Yes. 14 Q And have -- have you seen or observed any 15 experience regarding what impact, if any, the stress 16 of a real-life scenario may have on that reaction to 17 an incident that -- that -- that is occurring? 18 A Yes. What we find is the stress seems to 19 slow everybody's reaction time down. 20 makes decision-making a lot harder, right? 21 It makes -- it When we're under stress, things are 22 happening fast. 23 then, all of a sudden, we come to these decision 24 points, do I use force? 25 Things seem to be moving so fast and Do I not use force? Do I use this type of force versus that type 173 Examination of Josh Howery 1 of force? 2 more difficult to make those decisions. 3 the officer's reaction time slows way down and it 4 takes way more time for them to actually react to 5 what's happening to them. 6 Q All those things with stress, it becomes And so then And in -- in -- and, again, following that 7 train of thought, the principles of action versus 8 reaction, are there other factors that lead or can be 9 considered such as proximity between the actors in an 10 11 action versus reaction? A Yes. You know, distance -- when -- when we 12 talk about action and reaction, we also talk about 13 distance, time and options. 14 the more distance we have from a situation, the more 15 time we have to react to it. 16 And, generally speaking, And the more time we have to react to it, 17 now, our brains get to work a little bit longer and we 18 get to come up with more options. 19 that time, our options are limited. 20 only handle so much input and come up with a decision 21 in a -- in a certain amount of time. 22 If we don't have The brain can If we can, what we say generally is if we 23 are not already entangled in the confrontation, 24 distance is our friend. 25 distance if we can before it turns into a We would like to get more 174 Examination of Josh Howery 1 confrontation, before we're actually, say, fighting 2 with somebody if -- it at all possible. 3 If that's not possible, well, now, you're in 4 it; and, now, you're already in the reactionary mode. 5 So, again, if -- if we see it coming into a situation 6 and we can hold off and keep more distance, that's to 7 our advantage 'cause, now, we have more time to make 8 decisions and -- and have more options. 9 already entangled with somebody, that becomes a lot 10 11 Once we're more difficult. Q And going back to the issues regarding life 12 and the sanctity of life, persons who are not law 13 enforcement officers don't necessarily have a duty to 14 protect or help others; is that right? 15 A That's correct. 16 Q What about police officers? When they see 17 others in danger, are they allowed to run away or are 18 they -- is it kind of their responsibility to kind of 19 throw themselves in the middle of that danger 20 to protect? 21 A Well, the policy states that officers shall 22 actually help manage conflict when they see it. 23 you get the -- this call, you will go to it. 24 25 Now, it says that if you -- you know, officers, when they're managing conflict, the It -- 175 Examination of Josh Howery 1 requirement is that they have to make reasonable 2 decisions to actually interject themselves into there. 3 And they have to -- they have to calculate 4 whether, you know, they can do so safely and 5 effectively. 6 officer is perceiving at that time as they get there. But, again, that's based on what the 7 And if they perceive that, hey, I can make a 8 positive difference safely and I can actually fix this 9 situation without letting it spiral more out of 10 control by an action, then they're -- they -- they're 11 given the go ahead to make that action and -- and, in 12 many cases, encouraged because you're there. 13 If you all of a sudden say, "Oh, well, this 14 could turn into a confrontation. I'm just going to 15 step back and let something else happen," and it turns 16 to the worse, they -- they've kind of lost their 17 window of opportunity to make a positive difference. 18 But, again, that's still up to the officer 19 to -- to determine if they thought they could make 20 that positive difference in a safe manner or not. 21 understanding that they don't know the future, right? 22 They could have all the right intentions. 23 And And if everything that they saw in that 24 situation told them, yeah, I can make a positive 25 difference safely and effectively right now, and they 176 Examination of Josh Howery 1 get into it and then it turns worse and they -- they 2 could not have anticipated maybe that situation 3 turning the way it is -- or the way it does and it 4 just gets, you know, significantly worse. 5 Q Let's talk about knives. In your 6 experience, how -- how dangerous can knives be in a 7 confrontation with officers out on the street? 8 A Knives can be extremely dangerous. Knives 9 are just as deadly as guns in the right proximity. 10 Obviously, if we're standing across the street from 11 somebody, the knife is not as dangerous. 12 the gun becomes more dangerous, because of range. 13 That's why However, up close, person-to-person, a knife 14 is just as deadly. I think we saw that several years 15 ago on the MAX platform and we had three people 16 stabbed in a matter of seconds, maybe one or two 17 seconds, and two of those people died. 18 person -- one of those people were, thankfully, able 19 to be saved. One of those 20 But we see that, you know, a person with a 21 knife can be very, very dangerous, very, very deadly 22 very, very quickly, just as fast as a person with a 23 gun. 24 25 Q And turning our attention of sorts to knives -- and maybe -- maybe I'll just bring a photo 177 Examination of Josh Howery 1 of it to see if you recognize this type of knife. 2 Have you -- have you seen this type of knife in your 3 experience as a training officer? 4 A Yes. 5 Q And -- and what -- how do you recognize 6 that knife? 7 A That knife is one that -- it's called a 8 Benchmade SOCP dagger. 9 enforcement and the military as a backup-type weapon. 10 Q It is actually marketed to law And -- and -- and for what reason or what 11 purpose, at -- at least in -- in law enforcement, 12 would it have as -- as a backup piece or weapon? 13 A It is typically carried as a last 14 resort-type weapon, especially if an officer is unable 15 to -- if -- if an officer is facing a situation where 16 they're -- they're in fear for their life and they 17 believe that death or serious physical injury is 18 imminent to them and they are not able to use their 19 primary means of deadly force, which would be their 20 pistol. 21 In some cases -- there's been numerous cases 22 across the nation where a suspect has tried to take an 23 officer's gun. 24 with a suspect and the suspect tries to grab the gun 25 while they're -- while they're wrestling, that sort of An officer was wrestling with a -- 178 Examination of Josh Howery 1 thing. 2 What a knife would allow an officer to do 3 is still protect their gun with one hand, but draw 4 with the other -- their other hand a -- a secondary 5 weapon, such as a knife like that, and still start 6 to defend themselves. 7 Q So let's --let's break that down a little 8 bit. So, one, what are the dangers -- if two persons 9 are in close proximity, what are the dangers of -- 10 why -- why is an officer inclined to protect their gun 11 as opposed to try to use it if a -- if a person's 12 trying to go for their weapon? 13 A If an officer is fighting for their weapon, 14 the safest place for it to be is in the holster where 15 it has certain retention devices to try to hold that 16 gun in the -- in -- in the holster. 17 If an officer decides to present that gun in 18 close quarters, it's -- now, it's not retained. 19 could be fired, but it's also out and the person's so 20 close that they can actually grab the gun. 21 It And then if that person were able to disarm 22 the officer, the officer would be, you know, in a much 23 worse position where, now, the suspect has their gun. 24 They don't have a way to defend themselves with their 25 own gun and they could be risking (indiscernible). 179 Examination of Josh Howery 1 Q And in the scenario you just outlined, is 2 the officer the only person in danger if the firearm 3 is retrieved from the officer or is there any other 4 persons in danger if a suspect manages to take that 5 firearm? 6 A I believe that almost anybody could be in 7 danger at that point if that person -- if the suspect 8 took the officer's firearm. 9 Officer obviously would be in danger of -- 10 of that, but then the suspect probably is not -- 11 suspects don't typically stick around after something 12 like that. 13 with a firearm that they could use against anybody. 14 Q Now, they're on the loose in the public So in that scenario then, if they're in 15 close proximity, it's -- it's -- one aspect of 16 training is to suggest that protect the firearm by 17 keeping the firearm holstered as opposed to trying to 18 draw it? 19 A Yes. 20 Q And when an officer has their firearm, do 21 they keep it on their -- their primary hand or their 22 off hand? 23 keep my firearm on my left side or my right side? 24 25 A side. Is -- like, if I'm left handed, would I You would carry -- carry it on your left 180 Examination of Josh Howery 1 2 3 Q Okay. And -- and just out of curiosity, why is that? A Because officers fire their -- fire their 4 firearm with their primary hand. 5 writing with, you know, a pen and pencil. 6 your primary hand to do that typically. 7 It's just like You use You know, the dexterity is typically greater 8 with that hand. 9 are designed, it's for that strong-hand side to draw 10 11 So the way that the holsters are -- the firearm and then present it. Q So if an officer is trying to protect the 12 firearm from being unholstered, they're using their 13 primary hand typically to protect it? 14 A That's correct. 15 Q And if they're trying to use their primary 16 hand to keep it holstered, what are the mechanisms 17 inside a holster that assist them in keeping it 18 holstered? 19 A There's a hood that comes over the top of 20 the holster and there's actually an internal device. 21 They have to actually press a button with their thumb 22 to -- to dislodge the -- the firearm from the holster. 23 Q Okay. So if an officer is trying to keep 24 their firearm holstered and keep it in the holster 25 with their primary hand, does that -- what kind of 181 Examination of Josh Howery 1 advantages or disadvantages does that place them in if 2 they're in close proximity with the suspect using only 3 their off hand? 4 A It actually makes it a lot more difficult to 5 defend yourself with only one hand because one hand is 6 now tied up keeping your gun in your holster. 7 when we talk -- when I'm talking about close proximity 8 that you don't want to bring a gun out into, it's when 9 you're actually wrestling around with the person on 10 the ground where they -- you know, they could easily 11 just grab it from you. 12 And Making that distance, maybe it become -- 13 making -- maybe making a little bit of distance might 14 actually maybe make that gun -- or firearm an option 15 to draw at that point. 16 proximity, we're actually physically in contact with 17 the person. 18 Q And so what role, if -- 19 A Okay. 20 Q That's okay. But when we're talking close And so what role then, if any, 21 does then this knife potentially play if an officer 22 chooses to have it? 23 primary hand or for their off hand? 24 25 A Would it be positioned for their We recommend that they position it for their off hand, their -- their non-primary hand. That way, 182 Examination of Josh Howery 1 they could actually retrieve it, use it to defend 2 themselves, especially if they're fighting for their 3 gun, which is essentially, at that point, fighting for 4 their life. 5 Q Okay. So I'm going to show you a couple of 6 photos from the scene. Now, before I ask you these 7 questions, Officer Howery, we had a brief conversation 8 yesterday outlining that I'd like you to testify to 9 the grand jury today; is that accurate? 10 A Yes, that's correct. 11 Q But you personally were not involved in 12 your capacity as a trainings officer, a uniformed 13 officer, former SERT officer in this investigation; 14 is that accurate? 15 A That's correct. 16 Q And have -- have you reviewed any reports or 17 -- or any statements or witness statements regarding 18 this incident? 19 A No, never. 20 Q Okay. So I'm going to turn your attention 21 to the layout of this residence. So if I were to tell 22 you you enter in through this front door and then you 23 take a right in the second photo. 24 A Okay. 25 Q Then as you walk in, you're now walking into 183 Examination of Josh Howery 1 the dwelling. 2 A Okay. 3 Q And as you walk into the dwelling -- excuse 4 me -- this is the same couch here. This is the 5 bedroom belonging to the resident of this dwelling. 6 A Okay. 7 Q And as you can see, this is it. It's the 8 bedroom and this living space is essentially the 9 square footage of this residence. 10 So, first, is it fair to say, if I'm telling 11 you that this is essentially the distance and the size 12 of this normal home, but this is a separate dwelling, 13 is it fair to say that that is a small amount of 14 square footage for this dwelling? 15 A Yes. 16 Q Now, if there's -- if there was an 17 altercation between Officer Vosu and the person who 18 ultimately now is deceased, Mr. Gladen, that carried 19 into this bedroom and I told you that in this bedroom 20 this doorway was the only way to get out, what 21 problems, if any, would that create for both Officer 22 Vosu and Mr. Gladen? 23 A Well, as far as a fight, that's not very 24 much room to work. In a small, confined space like 25 that, the officer is super limited in what tools 184 Examination of Josh Howery 1 they're going to be able to be effective with. 2 know, the tools that they carry on their belt, 3 distance is their friend there and it helps them be 4 more effective. 5 You When you're in a confined space, even 6 getting some of those out is going to be very, very 7 difficult. 8 to -- like, in the middle of a fight so that you can 9 get into a -- a position of advantage where you can 10 Moving around to get correct positioning control somebody is much, much harder. 11 A lot of times, we train on open space in a 12 bathroom. 13 do scenarios in some of the smaller houses. 14 people are getting banged up against walls and 15 against furniture. 16 But putting it into a very small -- and we Now, There's a lot more stuff that becomes 17 hazardous while you're trying to control somebody. 18 just makes everything (indiscernible). 19 Q It And then as we get closer to the room, we 20 are now -- this is the -- the doorway you see right 21 here where the cursor is. 22 A Mm-hmm. 23 Q Now, we're zoomed in a little bit where the 24 cursor is. 25 recognize that device? This Taser here, do you -- do you 185 Examination of Josh Howery 1 A Yes. 2 Q And -- and -- and is that one of the Tasers 3 that you outlined as one of the less-lethal forms of 4 use of force? 5 A Yes. 6 Q If I told you that this is where the 7 decedent -- ultimately decedent fell and that casings 8 were found here -- first of all, if casings were found 9 here, just from your training and experience as an 10 officer, what would that suggest to you if 11 Officer Vosu is the only person who fired a shot? 12 A It would suggest that the officer was 13 standing somewhere along that back wall, what we're 14 looking at there -- 15 Q Mm-hmm. 16 A -- firing back this way. And the reason why 17 is because there -- the pistols that we carry, when 18 you fire a round, the shell ejects to the right. 19 Q And when going through -- again, now, we're 20 out of the living space, but inside this bedroom, what 21 concerns, if any, do you note from Officer Vosu's 22 perspective, Mr. Gladen, the decedent's, perspective 23 as far as proximity as it relates to options of force? 24 25 A From Officer Vosu's standpoint, you know, that room is not big enough to get really any good 186 Examination of Josh Howery 1 distance to get very many options. 2 hands on with somebody or just barely away from them 3 at -- at the maximum distance you can be in that room. 4 Q You're going to be And if -- if -- going back to the knife I 5 showed you in question, if, hypothetically, there was 6 a knife found in this location or if there was a knife 7 in Mr. Gladen's possession around the location of 8 where that Taser is or nearby, what threat or danger 9 did that pose to Officer Vosu if he was in that corner 10 11 of that bedroom? A That's a significant threat because the 12 distance is just so small there that a -- a lunge at 13 that point, maybe one to two steps at most, would 14 cover any distance in that room where that knife is 15 effective on -- on another person. 16 Q And just as another factor, or in this 17 scenario I'm presenting for you, are there any other 18 dangers or concerns if, where that Taser was found and 19 where the casings were found, the resident of that 20 apartment was also inside the living space? 21 A Yes, very much so. At that point, if 22 Officer Vosu is back against the wall there, he has no 23 avenue of escape. 24 retreat himself. 25 He doesn't have a chance to, like, On the other hand, if the resident is in 187 Examination of Josh Howery 1 there and he's -- becomes in danger from the suspect 2 himself, Officer Vosu is behind the curve if that guy 3 turns to attack the resident (indiscernible). 4 And, now, we have potential backdrop issues 5 if, you know, the resident is having deadly force used 6 against him. 7 using deadly force of his own may be limited because 8 the resident may be in the backdrop to potentially get 9 hit by -- by fire. 10 Officer Vosu's options to intervene Or Officer Vosu may not have enough time to 11 react before the resident is actually attacked or 12 maybe fatally stabbed or seriously injured 13 (indiscernible). 14 intervene before those things happen, not try to fix 15 them after it happens. 16 Q And, you know, the goal would be to And in this scenario, you saw the Taser 17 laying on the ground. If I were to tell you that, 18 prior to shots being fired, a Taser was deployed, 19 what, if anything, would that factor into the 20 decision-making of an officer facing that situation in 21 that corner? 22 A It would -- it would tell me that the 23 officer was trying to use less force than they were -- 24 were authorized. 25 confrontation with a lesser amount of force. They were trying to resolve the 188 Examination of Josh Howery 1 Q And does that amplify or increase the 2 threat, given that such a less-lethal use of force did 3 not persuade or dissuade the person from acting 4 further? 5 A Yes. It shows that, you know, they -- 6 they've pretty much gone up to the -- we've exhausted 7 our options at that point. 8 that we thought would be effective or else we wouldn't 9 have tried it if we didn't think it would be 10 We tried to do something effective. 11 If it proved to not be effective, the 12 officer is less -- left with even less options at that 13 point. 14 this case, it appears they had to resort to deadly 15 force. 16 Q And then (indiscernible) probably -- well, in Okay. So let's talk about that. I hope I 17 didn't -- I hope I didn't press that button. 18 that is the case, what is the goal of the officer 19 firing the shot? 20 intent of the officer to kill the person when they're 21 firing their shots? 22 A No. If -- if Is it -- is the shot -- is the The -- the intent of the officer is to 23 use deadly force to end the -- the threat, the 24 immediate threat of death or serious physical injury, 25 whether it be to the officer or whether it be to 189 Examination of Josh Howery 1 another person. 2 happening. But it is to stop that threat from 3 It's called deadly force because there is 4 the potential that the person may have -- you know, 5 receive serious physical injury or death. 6 intent is not to kill the person. 7 use that amount of force to stop them from being -- 8 being a threat. 9 Q But the The intent is to And in the scenario -- and as you saw the 10 layout of the home, did the -- did the person, or now 11 decedent, have any options that Officer Vosu did 12 not have? 13 A It appeared to me that if the -- 14 Officer Vosu was deep in the room and the other person 15 was by the door, that person would have the 16 opportunity to (indiscernible) leave if they wanted 17 to. But they -- they chose a different path. 18 They acted. They made a conscious decision 19 to stay there and continue to be -- to threaten the 20 officer or somebody else. 21 clear path of escape that -- if you're standing in the 22 doorway, you can simply turn around and leave. 23 Q But they didn't take a -- a Is another option that the person would have 24 also is to comply with the orders and simply desist on 25 whatever behavior has gotten them to that point? 190 Examination of Josh Howery 1 A Absolutely. 2 Q Now, in the scenarios and trainings that 3 you have, obviously, if someone is in some sort of 4 mental health crisis or severe intoxication or -- or 5 a combination, is that something that the officer or 6 resident of a -- a dwelling can control in determining 7 the actions of a person who's undergoing that crisis 8 or intoxication? 9 A No. 10 Q And so does that still limit then the 11 options of Officer Vosu or another officer in that 12 situation? 13 A I'm sorry? 14 Q Yeah, let me rephrase. 15 A Yeah, you can just -- 16 Q Can -- can -- can Officer Vosu -- 17 A -- (indiscernible). 18 Q -- control the actions of someone who may be 19 under crisis or heavily intoxicated or a combination 20 of that? 21 A Right. 22 person does. 23 Q No, he can't control what that And so does that go, again, back to the kind 24 of principles of action versus reaction that the 25 officers are trained about in these scenarios? 191 Examination of Josh Howery 1 A Yes. The officer, at that point, if -- 2 facing a -- an immediate threat, which is, you know, 3 something is happening to them right then, then the 4 control of the other person is lost and they have to 5 -- they have to understand that they -- they may need 6 to be taking action at this point. 7 Q One of the questions we had earlier -- and 8 it's -- it's not an uncommon question -- is, why can't 9 an -- why does an officer fire multiple shots; or, in 10 the alternative, why can't an officer fire in a 11 direction that may cause potentially less lethality, 12 such as a foot, a leg, as we see on TV from time 13 to time? 14 A Officers -- our officers are trained to use 15 deadly force to stop that threat. 16 bullets, unlike in the movies and on TV, they do not 17 stop a person with one shot. 18 over or back several feet or anything else like that. 19 It puts a hole in a person. 20 That -- many times, They do not knock people In -- in many cases, people who have been 21 show, they don't even know they've been shot. They 22 continue on with their actions. 23 multiple shots to actually get the result that the 24 officer is looking for, that threat being -- stopping 25 to be a threat. And so it may take 192 Examination of Josh Howery 1 We train our officers to constantly evaluate 2 while they're shooting, even in strings of fire, 3 right, where there's a threat, they start to fire. 4 They may continue to fire, but as that's happening, 5 they're still reevaluating the situation and they 6 are -- they're taking in information. 7 And as things change, their actions may also 8 change. 9 need to stop firing. 10 11 Their decisions may be to, "I can stop -- I I don't need to fire anymore. This threat is now -- now not a threat." Q Is there a set amount of shots to fire or 12 times to pull the trigger that they're trained to do 13 in these various situations? 14 A No. In the firearms training, they're 15 trained to fire sometimes one shot, sometimes five 16 shots, you know, just be able to control the gun. 17 But, again, when it comes to control tactics or 18 control procedures, scenarios and things, we do 19 training where there are some deadly-force situations. 20 And they, again, the expectation is that if 21 there's a -- if there -- that deadly force threat that 22 they need to stop, they will maybe continue to fire up 23 until that's -- that's stopped. 24 number that they're trained on. 25 Q And there's not a set And, again, these are controlled settings 193 Examination of Josh Howery 1 potentially for the training scenarios or in the -- or 2 on the range -- 3 A Yes. 4 Q -- but how does the stress of a real-life 5 situation factor in or impact the ability of ones to 6 shoot when trying to stop a threat? 7 A Again, stress makes anything more difficult 8 and it makes everything slower. 9 is going to be slower, but their accuracy also will be 10 So officers' reaction worse. 11 It will be harder to maintain everything 12 that the firearms program has taught them as far as 13 how to accurately hit a target. 14 that becomes much more difficult even at close range. 15 Q In times of stress, And in your training and experience on 16 reviewing these types of cases, whether there is 17 someone who, unfortunately, dies or in other cases 18 where someone does not die, in -- in your experience, 19 have you seen officers in the field under these highly 20 stressful situations miss their shots when trying to 21 stop a threat? 22 A Yes, even at close range because of stress. 23 And then, again, the -- the need to act quickly makes 24 the -- makes the accuracy much more difficult. 25 MR. HANNON: Do the grand jurors have any 194 Examination of Josh Howery 1 questions for Officer Howery? 2 A GRAND JUROR: I do. 3 MR. HANNON: 4 A GRAND JUROR: 5 item to Portland police officers? 6 THE WITNESS: Yeah. Is a knife a standard-issued We do not issue that. 7 knives that are carried by officers would be 8 individually purchased. 9 A GRAND JUROR: Any If a police officer in 10 Portland chose to carry a knife, would there be a 11 certain location that they would need to keep that 12 knife or is that up to the officer? 13 THE WITNESS: That's up to the officer. 14 We -- I had recommended that if you decided to carry a 15 knife, you would carry it on your support side or a -- 16 a position that you could access it with your 17 support hand. 18 BY MR. HANNON: 19 Q Which one's your support hand? 20 A That's your non-gun hand, just for the -- 21 the reasons that I -- I talked about earlier. 22 A GRAND JUROR: Can you talk a little bit 23 about the training that police officers have in using 24 a Taser? 25 THE WITNESS: Yeah, I can. 195 Examination of Josh Howery 1 A GRAND JUROR: Just -- just briefly, is -- 2 is it -- is it intense? 3 basic training how to use a Taser? 4 THE WITNESS: Is it just part of their It is. So they're taught how 5 the Taser works. 6 to use the Taser as far as a less-lethal-force option. 7 You know, and, typically, that boils down to if the 8 officer is -- perceives active aggression on the part 9 of the suspect, then they may be authorized to use the 10 They're taught when you're allowed Taser. 11 They talk about how effective it can be or 12 might not be due to other factors. 13 be a big one. 14 go into the skin and if a person is wearing 15 significant amounts of clothing, the Taser may not be 16 effective. 17 Clothing seems to We're talking about little darts that If you're too close to the Taser or too 18 close to the suspect, those darts come out at an 19 angle. The further away you are, the bigger the 20 angle. And then what happens is it causes muscular 21 disruption in between those two points of contact. 22 And the closer those two darts are together, 23 the less disruption that you're going to get because 24 it's not as affecting -- it's not affecting as many 25 muscle groups. And so then, again, is not going to be 196 Examination of Josh Howery 1 as effective. 2 to it's -- it can hurt. 3 doesn't affect everybody. 4 And then, in some cases, it comes down It can cause pain, but that And so they're -- they're aware of that. 5 They're aware of the limitations of drawing the Taser 6 and deploying it effectively. 7 their decision whether that's the right tool for the 8 right time. 9 10 A GRAND JUROR: And then they make And one last question about the Taser. 11 MR. HANNON: Well, and let me interrupt. 12 A GRAND JUROR: 13 MR. HANNON: 14 A GRAND JUROR: 15 MR. HANNON: Okay. No such thing as last question. Okay. You feel free to ask any 16 questions that you want. 17 A GRAND JUROR: 18 MR. HANNON: Okay. I mean, if -- if it's 19 objectionable, I'll -- I'll let you know. 20 that's why he's here. So -- 21 A GRAND JUROR: 22 MR. HANNON: 23 24 25 But the -- Okay. -- feel free to ask any question you want regarding trainings and tactics. A GRAND JUROR: anything about Tasers. In this -- I -- I don't know Do they have to be tested 197 Examination of Josh Howery 1 occasionally? I mean, a -- a Taser -- I'm not sure 2 a -- a Taser work -- works on a charge -- 3 THE WITNESS: Mm-hmm. 4 A GRAND JUROR: -- so it electrocutes 5 someone, but does a Taser have to be tested 6 occasionally, changed out, recharged? 7 operate? 8 THE WITNESS: 9 A GRAND JUROR: 10 THE WITNESS: How does it It has a battery. Okay. And so the battery packs, they 11 last, actually, quite a -- quite a long time. 12 we're talking months and months of (indiscernible). 13 Officers typically test the Taser at the beginning 14 of shift. 15 I mean, And they do what's called a spark test where 16 you press the button on the side and just make sure 17 that the -- you know, all the internals are working 18 and it actually works. 19 So they do test it. 20 And then they go on a patrol. A GRAND JUROR: And you mentioned that an 21 officer tests that before he goes out on patrol. 22 like a -- a button that you push and it turns green 23 and the Taser is good or -- 24 25 THE WITNESS: It actually sparks. It's And so it goes -- you know, you can see the electricity go 198 Examination of Josh Howery 1 between the arcs at the front of it. 2 What it doesn't do when you do -- when you 3 press that button, it doesn't actually shoot the 4 cartridges out because then you would have to throw 5 that cartridge away and put a new one in. 6 BY MR. HANNON: 7 Q There -- let's see if I can get a good photo 8 of the Taser. (Indiscernible) I think I have a -- 9 a -- a helpful follow-up question to that. If an 10 officer fires the Taser and wants to cycle it through 11 again -- 12 A Mm-hmm. 13 Q -- so let's say the prongs go out -- 14 A Yes. 15 Q -- the prongs are successful -- 16 A Uh-huh. 17 Q -- it has a -- a -- a -- a less-lethal 18 impact that -- to the desired effect -- 19 A Mm-hmm. 20 Q -- but then the person recovers, do you have 21 to do anything to try to fire or cycle through that 22 Taser again to have the, again, desired effect? 23 A So it will automatically go for five 24 seconds. If they press the side button, it will 25 actually activate that again. 199 Examination of Josh Howery 1 Q Okay. And that side button, is that this 2 button right here, this big kind of black button on 3 the side -- 4 A Yes. 5 Q -- of it? And does that black side button 6 have any other functions besides allowing the Taser to 7 go again? 8 A Yes. If you press that button just 9 momentarily, it will cycle to the next cartridge. 10 The -- the Tasers we carry have two cartridges, so 11 you would be able to fire the second cartridge. 12 Q Mm-hmm. 13 A The other thing is if there was no cartridge 14 in the Taser or both were spent and you just press 15 the -- and hold that side button, it sparks at the 16 front of the Taser, itself, and you would be able to 17 put it up against a person and do what they call a dry 18 stun. 19 Q Hmm. 20 A At that point, because the probes -- you 21 know, the -- the points of contact are right next to 22 each other, it is merely a painful point at 23 that point. 24 Q 25 And given -- so, obviously, when you hit that button on the side, it can have -- depending on 200 Examination of Josh Howery 1 how you press it, hard or soft, and the -- well, let 2 me ask you this: 3 depression or pressure you need to put on the button 4 for one of those options to occur? 5 6 7 A Is there a different sort of It's about the same pressure, but it has to do with how long you hold it down. Q So if someone's in a highly stressful 8 situation and they don't press it the right way or 9 they press it too quickly, can that impact the desired 10 effect and -- and render the Taser not as useful as 11 the person wanted it to be? 12 13 14 A Absolutely. MR. HANNON: Any other questions? May this witness be excused? 15 A GRAND JUROR: Yes. 16 MR. HANNON: 17 THE WITNESS: 18 A GRAND JUROR: Thank you. 19 A GRAND JUROR: Have a good day. 20 MR. HANNON: Okay. Thank you. And why don't we go ahead and 21 take a five-minute restroom break or stretch 22 your legs. 23 (Recess taken, 2:42 p.m. - 2:51 p.m.) 24 MR. HANNON: 25 We are back on the record and calling our next witness, Officer Vosu. 201 Examination of Consider Vosu 1 2 Just go right there. Raise your right hand and we'll swear you in. 3 CONSIDER VOSU 4 Was thereupon called as a witness; and, having been 5 first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows: 6 A GRAND JUROR: 7 MR. HANNON: 8 (TRANSCRIBER'S NOTE: 9 12 13 14 15 Go ahead and have a seat. The witness is difficult to hear.) 10 11 Thank you. EXAMINATION BY MR. HANNON: Q And, first, can you state and spell your name for the record. A Sure. My name is Consider Vosu, C-o-n-s-i-d-e-r, V-o-s-u. 16 Q And, Officer Vosu, how old are you? 17 A I am 42. 18 Q And how are you currently employed? 19 A With the Portland Police Bureau. 20 Q And how long have you been with the Portland 21 Police Bureau? 22 A Just a little over two years. 23 Q And could you please outline for the ladies 24 and gentlemen of the grand jury some of the training 25 you had at becoming a Portland police officer? 202 Examination of Consider Vosu 1 A I underwent training in regard to law in 2 regards to defense tactics, control tactics, 3 deescalation, crisis intervention. 4 training in mental health and recognizing certain 5 aspects of it. 6 regards to drugs, their usage -- uses, identifying 7 them. 8 9 10 11 Q I underwent I underwent additional training in Okay. And was that all part of the basic Portland Police Bureau academy? A Basic and also advanced. I also took the advanced program (indiscernible). 12 Q Okay. 13 A Four months. 14 Q And where -- where was that academy at? 15 A That's in Salem, Oregon. 16 Q And where was the advanced academy? 17 A Here in Portland at the training facility 18 And how long was the basic academy? (indiscernible). 19 Q And how long was that? 20 A A couple months. 21 Q And in addition to the basic and advanced 22 academy, was there any sort of field training 23 experience or FTOs that you were assigned to when you 24 were first hired with the Portland Police Bureau? 25 A Yes. During my training period, I began as 203 Examination of Consider Vosu 1 a Phase 0, which is an entry-level phase. And I 2 progressed through a number of different coaches as 3 well (indiscernible) officers up until my fifth and 4 final phase of probation. 5 Q And -- and when did you finalize probation? 6 A That would be July 26th of last year. 7 Q And -- and not to draw attention to your 8 age, but you are older, is it fair to say, for the 9 officers coming to the Portland basic -- or to basic 10 academy and advanced academy? 11 A 12 a young guy. 13 Q Okay. 14 A I was the third from the eldest at basic 15 16 Yeah, that's correct. training. Q I'm -- I'm -- I'm not Not the oldest guy, but close to it. And just by way of background, what other 17 jobs or professions have you had in your life prior to 18 becoming a Portland police officer? 19 A I've done a multitude of things. I used to 20 live in New York City where I worked at Metropolitan 21 Museum of Art as a digital imaging specialist for five 22 years. 23 was in New York as well. 24 25 I have taught at School of Digital Arts when I I was a stakeholder in a media company overseas in Armenia where I produced content, hired 204 Examination of Consider Vosu 1 photographers and writers, creative staff to create 2 fashion content for women's glasses in Europe before 3 coming to New York. 4 Q And what -- what prompted to you become a -- 5 well, did you come to Portland knowing you were going 6 to try to be a Portland police officer? 7 A No, I did not. 8 Q Okay. 9 When did you -- what prompted you to become a Portland police officer? 10 A After leaving Armenia, my ex took a job at 11 Portland Community College and I have sold my stake in 12 the media company (indiscernible). 13 old. And I was 40 years I thought, what do I want to do next? 14 I decided I'm doing what I wanted to do 15 since I was a seven-year-old boy. 16 followed my dream of becoming a police officer. 17 18 19 Q Mm-hmm. I followed my -- I And what about being a police officer drew you to it since childhood? A I wanted to help people. I wanted affect a 20 tangible good; to do something that, at the end of the 21 day, I could recognize that I have done some good 22 work, that I've -- I've made a difference. 23 Q Now, you summarized -- well, let me ask you 24 this real quick as well. 25 educational background? What is -- what is your 205 Examination of Consider Vosu 1 2 3 4 A I have a bachelor of fine arts in studio art and a master of arts in photography art media. Q Okay. Now, prior to coming here today -- you are here voluntarily; is that accurate? 5 A That's correct. 6 Q You do have your attorney outside for advice 7 or to consult if you needed to; is that accurate? 8 A Yes, it is. 9 Q Okay. 10 So going back to your training, you said you were the third oldest in your class. 11 A In the basic academy. 12 Q In the basic academy. Did you ever have any 13 training in what's called CIT, which is critical 14 incident training? 15 A Yes. 16 Q And -- and what is critical incident 17 18 training? A Critical incident training is recognizing 19 scenarios that are volatile; recognizing aspects of 20 those scenarios and attempting to deescalate those 21 scenarios; attempting to get the assets in play to 22 come to the best, safest conclusion for those -- for 23 those scenarios. 24 25 Q And -- and what does that -- what can that entail in trying to defuse those situations or 206 Examination of Consider Vosu 1 scenarios? 2 A That would be speaking calmly. That would 3 be addressing the person, perhaps by their name, their 4 first name, if -- if that's known. 5 recognizing different components that might be 6 informing the person's behavior, asking them simple 7 questions, "What's going on? 8 What's happening with you?" trying to just build a 9 rapport to start a conversation. 10 Q That would be Why are you here? And in -- as part of that training, is there 11 any conversations or thought processes related to the 12 impact having an overwhelming amount of law 13 enforcement present versus a smaller or reduced amount 14 of law enforcement present that can impact any 15 particular scenario? 16 A Sure. Depending on the scenario, sometimes 17 people respond better to a -- to a smaller group of 18 folks. 19 there's a dozen police officers that are there, 20 someone might respond differently than if they're 21 speaking with one or two officers. I mean, if -- it could be overwhelming. 22 Q And what is the ECIT? 23 A That -- I am not an EC-trained -- If 24 ECIT-trained officer, but that is an officer who has 25 taken additional coursework, another 40 hours worth of 207 Examination of Consider Vosu 1 coursework, in helping to deescalate these -- these 2 kind of scenarios. 3 Q And are -- and people who take those are 4 basically people who try to specialize in that kind of 5 scenario-based training? 6 A Correct. 7 Q Whereas your CIT training is something that 8 would be related to any police officer who may find 9 themselves in this situation? 10 A That's correct. 11 Q So turning your attention to this particular 12 incident that we're here in front of the grand jury, 13 how did it start? 14 you -- drew your attention to this call? What was the first thing that 15 A This was a call in my district. I was 953 16 for the day. 17 Q What is 953? 18 A 953 is the area kind of right around 19 East Precinct, about a mile, mile-and-a-half radius 20 from East Precinct. 21 my in-car computer terminal. 22 it was a typical call of someone who is trespassing, 23 transient that didn't want to move along. 24 these calls all day long. 25 Q Yeah. So it was a call that came up on So it seemed like a -- We get Is that -- that was -- that was going 208 Examination of Consider Vosu 1 to be my next question. In -- in inner East or 2 East -- around East Precinct, is there a -- a 3 transient -- are there numerous transient issues that 4 officers have to respond to at either businesses or 5 residences? 6 A Absolutely. 7 Q And what -- what is the typical response 8 when you happen to respond to those transient calls? 9 How will it normally play out? 10 A Normally, what plays out is you get a call 11 from a -- from a resident or a business owner that 12 a transient is on their property, premises. 13 30 percent of the time, they're gone by the time we 14 get there. 15 calling the police. 16 I'm going to call the police," and the person leaves. 17 20 or The person will call and say, "Hey, I'm If you don't get out of here, Typically, after that, I guess the remaining 18 percentage is an officer would arrive and say, as I 19 often say, "Hey, you have to go. 20 else. You just can't be here." You can be anyplace And -- 21 Q And -- and how -- 22 A -- they move along. 23 Q Yeah, sorry to interrupt you. How 24 successful is that approach when -- well, let me ask 25 you this. Strike that last question. 209 Examination of Consider Vosu 1 When -- in those other scenarios where that 2 occurs, unlike this particular incident, would you 3 respond to those move along or -- or unwanted persons 4 by yourself? 5 A Yes. 6 Q And how would you describe the kind of level 7 of presence or force or command that you would 8 approach those scenarios? 9 A Just being a physical presence is close to 10 100 percent. 11 Q That's enough. So would you have to elevate your voice or 12 amplify yourself or do you take a more low-key 13 approach when approaching those unwanted subject? 14 15 16 A Absolutely a low-key approach. I speak to them as I'm speaking to you right now. Q Okay. And what would be the typical or 17 average response to you showing up and telling the 18 person they need to move along? 19 20 21 A Close to 100-percent compliance. People leave. Q And in the situations where -- and you said, 22 "Close to 100 percent," so there -- would you say it's 23 a handful, slightly more than a handful where they 24 were noncompliant? 25 A Yes, that would be -- 210 Examination of Consider Vosu 1 Q Okay. 2 A -- that would be accurate. 3 Q And -- and in those situations or scenarios, 4 what efforts, if any, did you have to use to get those 5 unwanted subjects when "move along" is not enough? 6 A I would call for additional units. 7 Occasionally, an arrest would be made or a police 8 officer hold -- 9 Q Mm-hmm. 10 A -- based on mental health issues or 11 12 13 substance abuse. Q And does that pretty much encapsulate all of the unwanted calls that you've had to deal with? 14 A Yes, it does. 15 Q So turning to this situation, when you saw 16 it appear on your computer -- and that computer, I 17 take it, is inside the patrol vehicle? 18 A That's right. 19 Q How did you notify others that you would be 20 21 22 23 responding to that call? A I just self-dispatched my -- myself, my unit, to -- to that call. Q And I noticed you kind of almost mimed 24 pressing a button. 25 like, does it -- Is it just a press of the button, 211 Examination of Consider Vosu 1 A It is a touchscreen. 2 Q Oh, okay. So it's -- it's -- so you hit 3 the screen and that's sufficient for the computer to 4 register that this patrol vehicle will be going to 5 that call? 6 A That's right. And so dispatchers, anybody 7 who's working at their computer terminal can register 8 that I'm on that call. 9 Q So -- and where were you geographically 10 from that location? 11 get there? 12 A 13 How long did it take you to I don't know exactly, probably a mile away -- 14 Q Okay. 15 A -- at the most. 16 I was. 17 Q Okay. 18 A I did. 19 Q When you arrived, what was -- what, if 20 21 22 It wasn't far from where And -- and so then you did arrive? anything, did you observe when you arrived? A I initially didn't see the subject that the call was based on. 23 Q Mm-hmm. 24 A I saw the residence and I saw a couple of 25 chairs that were sitting on the porch, but I didn't 212 Examination of Consider Vosu 1 see him. 2 years old, 60 years old, who was standing about 10 or 3 15 feet in front of the house and she was -- she was 4 waving to me. 5 6 Q What I did see was a woman, 50 -- 50-some Mm-hmm. And -- and what did you do to that prompting? 7 A I parked my patrol vehicle -- 8 Q Mm-hmm. 9 A -- and I walked over to her. 10 Q And what happened next? 11 A I asked -- I introduced myself. I said, 12 "Officer Vosu, Portland Police. Did you place a 13 call?" 14 Q Mm-hmm. 15 A She said that there is an individual that's And she said, yes, she did. 16 on the porch over there and she told me that she 17 thinks that he needs some shelter, some food and some 18 clothing and could I check on him. 19 Q Mm-hmm. 20 A I said, "Sure." 21 Q And what did you do next? 22 A She began to walk to her residence and I 23 approached the house. 24 Q Mm-hmm. Did -- 25 A When I approached the house, I saw behind 213 Examination of Consider Vosu 1 2 3 the two chairs was a blanket covering an individual. Q Mm-hmm. And -- and what did you do when you saw that? 4 A I introduced myself again. 5 Q Mm-hmm. 6 from that blanket? 7 saw a blanket. 8 blanket? 9 10 11 A And -- and was there a response Well, let me ask you this. Could you see anything besides the Now that I was closer, I would see that there was a figure underneath the blanket. Q Okay. And so you approached the blanket and 12 you can see a figure. 13 introduced yourself? 14 15 16 17 You A Correct. And then is that when you And I said, "Officer Vosu, Portland Police." Q Okay. And is that kind of the tone and inflection you used? 18 A Pretty -- pretty accurate, pretty close. 19 Q Okay. 20 A The response after doing this once or maybe And what was the response? 21 twice was to see a head pop out from underneath 22 the blanket. 23 Q Mm-hmm. 24 A I registered that the person that I was 25 And what happened next? looking at, his right eye was discolored. Pupil was 214 Examination of Consider Vosu 1 askew. In the call, it had made mention that it was 2 a person who was blind. 3 Q Mm-hmm. 4 A The subject who was trespassing was -- the 5 transient was blind. 6 (indiscernible). So I took this -- this 7 Q Okay. 8 A And I said, as I say to everybody on these 9 10 11 12 13 calls, "You have to move along. You can be anyplace else, but you can't be here." Q And this individual, what was the response to that? A He said, "You're not the police." And I 14 said, "Actually" -- (indiscernible), "Actually, I am 15 the police." 16 I said, "Sure. 17 And he said, "Show me your badge." Here." And I pointed to my metal badge. And I 18 could see that he was looking at it. 19 off to the side, but the other pupil was -- was 20 trained on it. One pupil was 21 Q Mm-hmm. 22 A So I could see that he was registering. 23 24 25 was following my hand as it touched my badge. Q And Well, and in addition to that, is he responding -- so you -- you had a brief exchange. He 215 Examination of Consider Vosu 1 Were -- were the answers sensical or responsive, even 2 though not necessarily agreeable, to the questions or 3 statements that you were posing to him? 4 5 6 A Yeah. There was -- there was a conversation that was taking place. Q Okay. I -- 'cause I presume, in the CIT 7 training, verbal or nonverbal cues are -- might be 8 evident to you that there was not a conversation 9 tracking? 10 A Absolutely. 11 Q So after you pointed to your badge and 12 clarified that, yes, in fact, you are a police 13 officer, what -- what was the response then? 14 A He said this once again. He said, "You're 15 not a police officer." 16 don't want to arrest you for trespassing. 17 have to go someplace else." 18 Q Mm-hmm. And I said, "Again, I am and I You just And did this occur multiple times 19 or is this literally -- and I -- and I -- I presume 20 this is not verbatim, as close as you can recall? 21 A This is as close as I can recall. 22 Q And did this go on a couple more times or 23 24 25 was it pretty much tracking at this pace? A It's about this pace. It was probably,like, a five-second, seven-second conversation. 216 Examination of Consider Vosu 1 Q Okay. And then what happened? 2 A The individual stood up from -- from the 3 blankets. 4 so I couldn't -- couldn't see how he was dressed. 5 he stood up. 6 going to move along. 7 He was completely encased in the blankets, But And, initially, I thought, great, he's As he stood up, I noticed that he was 8 wearing a hospital gown and he had one shoe on his 9 right foot and it was the wrong shoe. So I asked him, 10 I said, "Did you just come from the hospital? 11 going on?" What's 12 And I said -- and I made mention to him. 13 said, "You have a -- a shoe on your right foot and 14 it's the wrong foot for that shoe." 15 me and backs up to the door of the house. 16 sleeping kind of almost directly against it. 17 And he looks at He was But he's looking at me and he doesn't 18 respond, takes his shoe foot and begins kicking the 19 door hard, as hard as he can. 20 of noise. 21 have to stop kicking the -- kicking the door." 22 I And he's making a lot And I said, "Hey, you got to stop. You As -- as I'm saying this, I'm saying, 23 "What's going on? You have to stop kicking the door. 24 We can't -- we can't do this," the resident opens the 25 door of the house. 217 Examination of Consider Vosu 1 Q And how would you describe the resident? 2 A Physically or his mannerisms? 3 Q Physically first. 4 A Physically, he's a big guy. 5 260 or 270. 6 least, at that point, he did. He's probably He has a partially shaved head. At 7 Q Mm-hmm. 8 A His chest was bare. 9 Q And -- and so describe his mannerisms. 10 11 He's irate. How did he interact when he opened the door? A He comes out loud, confrontational and he's 12 yelling. And he's yelling at the subject who is on 13 his porch. 14 here. And he says, "I told you to get out of I told you to leave." 15 Q And -- and what happened next? 16 A I tell him to get back inside the house. 17 Q Mm-hmm. 18 A And as this is happening, he's coming out of 19 the house and he starts yelling. I call for cover 20 'cause this is not going how I want it to go. 21 Q Mm-hmm. 22 A Additional units here would be -- would be 23 good. I get confirmation on the radio that Unit 951 24 is coming, which I -- is my district partner. 25 know that there are two people in that car and they're So I 218 Examination of Consider Vosu 1 close, maybe a mile away, mile and a half. 2 So I get confirmation over the radio that 3 (indiscernible) are on their way. 4 touched anybody yet. 5 6 Q But nobody's It's -- So what are you hoping to do since no one's touched anybody yet and you know cover is on its way? 7 A I'm hoping to get the resident back inside 8 the house. 9 Q Mm-hmm. 10 A That would resolve an additional component 11 to this call that's only complex -- it's complicating 12 things. 13 house. 14 cross between a limb and a stick. 15 But the resident does not go back inside the He picks up a tree limb. It's -- it's like a It's about four-and-a-half, four feet high 16 and it's maybe three inches in diameter. And he's 17 holding it like a baseball bat and he's threatening 18 the guy on the porch. 19 Q Mm-hmm. 20 A And he's saying, "I warned you to get out of 21 here." 22 was threatening him and he's holding this wooden club. 23 And I tell the resident again, "Get back inside. 24 the stick down." 25 I don't remember exactly what he said, but he Still, he doesn't. Put And the third time, I 219 Examination of Consider Vosu 1 tell him forcefully that there's a mental health 2 component in play. Verbatim, that's what I tell him. 3 Q Mm-hmm. 4 A And this time, he complies by putting down 5 the stick, puts it in, like, a -- a metal canister 6 outside on the porch; but he doesn't go back inside. 7 He doesn't close the door. 8 He's kind of standing in the doorway and the subject 9 is maybe about a foot away from him. The door is still open. 10 Q Mm-hmm. And so what happened? 11 A The subject said something like, "I'm going 12 inside," and that's exactly what he does. 13 resident there had his -- I think his arm across the 14 door and the guy crashes into him, pushes past his arm 15 and runs inside the house. 16 17 18 Q He -- the And what concerns or thoughts did that prompt for you? A I just witnessed this guy go from conversing 19 with me to getting spun up quickly and violently 20 kicking the door. 21 of with the -- the resident. 22 him inside. 23 Q 24 25 I wasn't sure what he was capable The resident followed So did the resident go in before you went in? A The resident went in before I went in. 220 Examination of Consider Vosu 1 Q Okay. And -- and, too, did you have any 2 knowledge or information as to who else might be in 3 this residence or what type of residence it is? 4 A I had no indication. 5 Q Did you at least know there could be at 6 least one other individual, the female who you met in 7 the initial call? 8 A The female who I spoke with? 9 Q Yeah. 10 A She was in a different building. 11 Q Oh, okay. 12 A She walks to a different -- a different 13 14 15 16 Okay. building. Q So when you saw the individual go in and the resident follow, what did you do next? A I immediately called for stepped-up cover. 17 That's Code 3 cover, which means everybody's going to 18 be coming, lights and sirens, as fast as they can. 19 Q And -- and why did you do that? 20 A I felt that there was a very good chance 21 that -- that a fight was going to ensue. 22 to try to protect the resident from quite likely a 23 volatile subject. 24 25 Q I was going So what -- and so after you did that, what did you do next after calling for increased code or 221 Examination of Consider Vosu 1 increased cover? 2 A I ran in after him. 3 Q And why did you run in after him? 4 A To protect the resident; to try to stop -- 5 6 to try to stop the situation from getting worse. Q And in your -- and let me ask you this. 7 These -- these decisions and this event unfolding, are 8 they -- are they happening as slow as I'm asking you 9 these questions? 10 11 12 A Absolutely not. This is all taking place in a matter of -- matter of a few seconds. Q Okay. So what thoughts specifically, if 13 any, were racing through your mind as you went into 14 that residence? 15 16 A That I need to try to protect the resident; that I need to try to stabilize the situation. 17 Q Okay. 18 A And that's why I took this job, to help 19 people, to -- to try to make people safe. So I ran in 20 after him. 21 Q When you ran in after him, what happened? 22 A I jumped up the -- I was standing at the 23 sidewalk with one boot on the stairs, a series of 24 three stairs. 25 distance between the subject and myself as I was And I had maybe about five feet of 222 Examination of Consider Vosu 1 talking with him and then with him and the 2 homeowner -- or the resident. 3 The police -- for officer safety, I'm not 4 sure what this guy is going to do. 5 door. 6 don't know, so I gave myself some distance. 7 went inside, I didn't see them for a brief second. Maybe he lunges at me. 8 9 He just kicked the Maybe he sits down. I When they After I radio that I need cover and I run in after them, I see the subject on the ground in the 10 living room. 11 he's on his left hip. 12 over him kind of bent over. 13 He's not quite prone, but he's not on -And I see the resident standing And it appears as if they're struggling or 14 fighting. 15 over him. I see one guy down and another guy 16 Q Mm-hmm. 17 A So I rush in. 18 Q And -- and taking a step back real quick, 19 were you surprised that this person darted into the 20 residence the way he did? 21 A It was -- yeah, I wasn't expecting that. 22 Q Okay. 23 A But I thought it was actually a possibility, And -- 24 which is why I was telling the resident to close the 25 door -- 223 Examination of Consider Vosu 1 Q Mm-hmm. 2 A -- remove himself from the scenario as well 3 as -- 4 Q Mm-hmm. 5 A -- (indiscernible). 6 Q So as you see him on the ground and -- and 7 the resident nearby, what -- what actions did you try 8 to do next? 9 A I tried to subdue the subject. I -- kind of 10 a side position, I ran up to him and I placed both of 11 my hands on his right arm. 12 Q Mm-hmm. 13 A And I know that everybody's coming at this 14 point. 15 minute and change before they start arriving. 16 all I need to do is subdue this guy for that much 17 period and I'll have another three or four or five 18 officers at my side to help. 19 20 Q It's going to be a matter of a minute or a Mm-hmm. So then And -- and so as you're trying to subdue him, what's -- what happens? 21 A 22 resisting." 23 -- to move his arm behind his back just so I can hold 24 him. 25 Q I believe I said, you know, "Stop And I'm moving his arm or attempting to Mm-hmm. 224 Examination of Consider Vosu 1 2 A He's about my size, maybe a little bit bigger. 3 Q Mm-hmm. 4 A But he's -- he's strong and I can't get his 5 arm behind his back. 6 -- he's now standing -- I'm behind a couch and a wall 7 -- kind of between a couch and a wall and he's now 8 standing closer to the door. 9 So I tell the resident -- he's He's standing in between myself and the 10 door. And he's a big guy, so I tell him, I said, 11 "Help me hold this guy down," and I don't get a 12 response from him. 13 Q Mm-hmm. 14 A And I'm struggling with him, grappling. 15 He's pushing with his left hand. 16 hip and halfway sitting up and he's using his left 17 hand to -- he's pushing away at me and touching my -- 18 striking my chest -- 19 Q Mm-hmm. 20 A -- and -- and my arms. 21 me to make some distance. 22 against me. 23 Q He's kind of on his He's trying to get He's -- he's fighting He's actively resisting. And in your -- taking a step back real quick 24 from that, in your training -- and you said he's 25 actively resisting. Are -- are there concerns in 225 Examination of Consider Vosu 1 training about when someone actively resists officers 2 in close proximity? 3 the person, themself, to the officer or anybody 4 nearby? Does that create dangers both to 5 A Sure. 6 Q And -- and -- 7 A It's -- 8 Q -- and why and how is that? 9 A It's unknown what he's capable of at that 10 point. 11 person, he becomes much more of -- of a threat to 12 myself and to the homeowner. 13 I am -- if -- if he accesses something on my Q I've -- And let -- let's itemize that. What -- what 14 are some of the things you had on your uniform that -- 15 that this person could've seized or taken in the 16 struggle? 17 18 A I have my firearm. I have a Taser. I have a -- I have some OC spray, a baton and two knives. 19 Q And where were the two knives? 20 A One was in my utility pocket and one was 21 22 behind my tourniquet on my vest. Q Okay. So as you're struggling with him, how 23 does -- how does that resolve itself or -- or does it 24 resolve itself? 25 A I'm not winning and I'm not subduing him and 226 Examination of Consider Vosu 1 so as we're trained in -- in the academy, if 2 something's not working, to try something else. 3 push myself off and -- and I draw my Taser. 4 activate my Taser there and I admonish him, I yell at 5 him, "Stop or you're going to be tased." 6 Q So I And I And do you recall where you were 7 geographically in the residence as you found yourself 8 in that position? 9 A I was a few feet back from -- closer towards 10 the bedroom of the house. 11 get a good Taser strike (indiscernible). 12 13 14 Q You need more distance to So by -- so did you maneuver yourself to that location to create that space? A Sure. To draw my Taser, to activate it, 15 give me some time to activate it and to aim and 16 admonish him. 17 Q So, in other words, you didn't -- when 18 struggling with him, you didn't have your Taser 19 drawn then? 20 A I did not. 21 Q You separated yourself to draw it? 22 A Correct. 23 Q And were you actually at the -- the rear 24 bedroom when you actually were able to draw your Taser 25 or do you recall where you might have been when you 227 Examination of Consider Vosu 1 2 3 4 drew the Taser? A Maybe about a step or two in front of the bedroom. Q Okay. And did that create the distance 5 necessary for you to pull the Taser and -- and set 6 yourself up for the Taser? 7 A Yes, it did. 8 Q And what, if anything, was he doing as you 9 10 were creating that space? A As I admonished him and I said, "Stop or 11 you're going to be tased," he said, verbatim, "Go 12 ahead and tase me, motherfucker." 13 this, he's getting up. 14 getting up aggressively and he's coming -- he's coming 15 at me. 16 Q Mm-hmm. And as he says And I can see that he's And you mentioned earlier you 17 noticed issues with his eyes, but did it seem as if 18 any of his actions or behavior were happenstance or 19 misdirected or was he able to kind of pick a location 20 and go to it? 21 A 22 at me. 23 Q He was picking my location. Okay. He was coming And so after he responded the way he 24 did, did you make -- give him any other verbal 25 commands or did you act? 228 Examination of Consider Vosu 1 A I acted. As he was getting up and coming at 2 me kind of from a crouched position, as he was about 3 halfway up, two-thirds of the way up, I had taken aim. 4 I had found -- I had placed the laser -- the laser 5 sights on him and I -- I tased him. 6 7 Q And where did the laser sight -- do recall where the laser sight connected with him? 8 A 9 his abdomen. 10 Q Okay. 11 A That's correct. 12 Q And -- and what response, if any, did that 13 have on him? 14 A He went down immediately, but briefly. 15 Q Okay. 16 It was in his quad -- quadriceps and in And you deployed your Taser? And do you recall if there was a cycle on the Taser or not as you did it? 17 A It's a five-second cycle. 18 Q So it -- so it was the full five-second 19 cycle? 20 A (No audible response.) 21 Q And I'm sorry, we're recording. 22 a yes? 23 A Mm-hmm, yes. 24 Q Okay. 25 So that's And so what happened after you went through that full cycle? 229 Examination of Consider Vosu 1 A So he goes down and as he goes down, I can 2 see that he has something in his hand and I don't 3 register what it is. 4 "Stop or you're going to get it again." 5 getting up again, but this time, I can register what's 6 in his hand is my -- is my knife. 7 Q Mm-hmm. I admonish him again. I say, And he starts And -- and did you ever actually 8 see when or where he would have pulled it off of your 9 person? 10 11 12 A He would've pulled it off my vest, but I didn't see it happen. Q Okay. Okay. And so -- and did you 13 recognize which knife it was that he had in his 14 possession? 15 A Yeah. I -- I looked at the knife and I -- I 16 thought, that looks like my knife. 17 vest and my sheath and found them -- found it empty. 18 19 20 21 Q And I indexed my So what -- what, if anything, did you do when you saw that? A I -- the -- the level of threat has changed dramatically. 22 Q To whom? 23 A To me. 24 to me. 25 Q Also to the resident, but primarily He's coming at me. Okay. And so what, if anything, did you do 230 Examination of Consider Vosu 1 when you saw that? 2 A I stepped back and I drew my firearm. 3 Q And why did you step back? 4 A To create more distance so that I could -- 5 distance is safety. 6 distance, perhaps I could say something, perhaps. 7 Perhaps he stops. 8 or I'll shoot." 9 Q 10 you believe? 11 A If I could have a little bit more I believe I admonished him, "Stop Now, you say you believe. Why do you say Certain things I can recall with absolute 12 clarity. 13 response, me asking the resident to help hold this guy 14 down. 15 in a situation like this before in my life where 16 someone is actively trying to kill me. 17 with 100-percent certainty that that's what I say. 18 would say 90-, 95-percent certain. 19 Q When I admonished him with the Taser and his This is intensely stressful. Mm-hmm. I've never been I don't recall I And -- and within that probability 20 or almost certainty, do you have an estimate whether 21 it was once or multiple times? 22 A It would've been -- it would've been once. 23 Q Okay. And do you recall, when you created 24 that distance, where you were creating that 25 distance to? 231 Examination of Consider Vosu 1 2 3 A I stepped back in further into the house towards the bedroom. Q Was there anything you may have observed 4 about your geography in the residence as you were 5 creating that distance? 6 A Well, the geography, I observed swiftly the 7 layout of the place. 8 the room. 9 the room. 10 Q The couch is in the center of The resident is now up towards the front of Mm-hmm. And did you see any other signs of 11 locations that you could back further away to other 12 than where you were located in the bedroom? 13 14 15 A No, I was effectively trapped. place else to go at this point. Q Okay. And did the -- well, so you gave that 16 command. 17 happened next or what did you do next? 18 There was no A You saw the knife. What, if anything, I saw the -- I saw the knife in his right 19 hand. I saw him holding it tightly and he was 20 advancing on me with -- with intent. 21 Q Mm-hmm. So -- so what did you do? 22 A I did as -- as we do in training. I stepped 23 back, drew my firearm, I believe I admonished him and 24 then fired three times. 25 Q Now, do you recall firing three times or did 232 Examination of Consider Vosu 1 you just fire your firearm and then stop firing? 2 A I recall firing three times. 3 Q Okay. And was that something you personally 4 were trained thinking to do, have a fixed number of 5 times to fire or is there a reason why three might 6 have rung out for you? 7 A I think that's -- it was more muscle memory 8 than anything. We've done this -- I've done it 9 hundreds of times in basic academy and the advanced 10 academy, on the range where we step back from a target 11 and fire three times. 12 13 Q Okay. And what, if anything, happened when you fired three times? 14 A He -- his momentum carried him further. 15 Q Mm-hmm. 16 A Towards me. 17 Q -- or away from you? 18 A At this point, I -- I must have shuffled Further where? Towards you -- Okay. 19 back another step because I was now in the bedroom. 20 And he landed on my feet. 21 my -- of my legs. 22 23 24 25 Q His legs were on top of When you fired those three shots, what was your intent in firing those three shots? A To protect myself, to stop the threat, to protect the -- to protect the resident. 233 Examination of Consider Vosu 1 2 Q And when he fell at your feet and collapsed at your feet, were your feet actually touching? 3 A We were touching. 4 Q And what were you able to observe after 5 6 7 he collapsed? A I was able to observe that I had struck him. Beneath his hospital gown, I saw the marks of blood. 8 Q Mm-hmm. 9 A But I don't know where I struck him. 10 11 12 13 I -- I shot, as we're trained to do, for center mass. Q Mm-hmm. And in doing so, what, if anything, did you observe next? A I observed that his legs, while touching 14 mine, one of them was on top of my Taser. I observed 15 him -- at this point, he was -- he wasn't moving. 16 wasn't responsive, but I wasn't sure where I had 17 struck him. 18 Q So what did you -- so what did you do? 19 A I wasn't comfortable with my position in the He 20 bedroom. This is a second or two after I had shot. I 21 had put out over the radio that I had fired shots and 22 that the subject was down and that I'm fine because I 23 know that everyone is still coming as fast as they 24 possibly can, so I tried to slow that up, let them 25 know that I'm okay. 234 Examination of Consider Vosu 1 I stepped over the subject and I see my 2 knife sticking in the floor maybe two feet away. As I 3 step over, I think -- I'm not sure if he's still a 4 threat or not, so I keep my gun trained on him with 5 one hand and I kneel down and I grab my knife with the 6 other hand and pull it from the floor. 7 Q Mm-hmm. 8 A After a second or two, as I'm talking to him 9 and I'm saying, "Ambulance is coming. 10 he's, again, not responsive. 11 I stick it back where it was -- Don't move," So I take the knife and 12 Q Mm-hmm. 13 A -- in the floor approximately. 14 Q And why'd you do that? 15 A To preserve the crime scene as it was, so 16 when people could come in, you know, they see -- 17 Q Mm-hmm. 18 A -- what had happened. 19 Q Where was the -- was the resident still in 20 there as -- as all this unfolded? 21 A He was up towards the door. 22 Q Okay. And I -- I calculated, I believe, 23 that I've been asking you questions for more than 24 20 minutes, 30 minutes maybe, dissecting this down. 25 Did this all unfold, second-by-second detail, as -- as 235 Examination of Consider Vosu 1 the way I'm asking you questions and the way you're 2 answering them? 3 A I would estimate that from the time I 4 entered until when I fired was a total of about 5 30 seconds, something like that. 6 Q So -- 7 A Maybe 40. I mean, it's tough to gauge. 8 time is -- it slows down under such stress. 9 I -- 30, 40 seconds. 10 Q The The time, How quickly would you say that when you put 11 the knife back occurred between that and when other 12 officers ultimately arrived? 13 14 15 A It was short, another 15 seconds after that, something like that. Q And was there any other interaction between 16 you and the person on the ground besides you telling 17 them, "Don't move," and, "Medical is on its way"? 18 A No. 19 Q Was there any other interaction between you 20 and the resident inside the -- inside that room while 21 you were waiting when your cover is arriving? 22 A I asked him if he was okay. 23 Q Mm-hmm. 24 A He didn't respond with a yes or a no. 25 He said -- he said something to the effect of he can't 236 Examination of Consider Vosu 1 2 3 take this crazy shit. Q Mm-hmm. That was exactly what he said. And so you stood there until the officers arrived? 4 A Correct. 5 Q In that same position? 6 A In that same position. 7 Q And then what happened when officers 8 9 arrived? A Officer Miller came in and I told her as she 10 entered, I said, "Look out because my Taser's 11 underneath his leg." 12 heard me and said, "Get out of here." And she acknowledged that she 13 Q Mm-hmm. 14 A As is the protocol, our training that after 15 an officer-involved shooting, an officer is to be 16 removed from the scene. 17 Q 18 the scene? 19 A I walked out of the residence. 20 Q Mm-hmm. 21 A And another officer, Officer Storm, was 22 there. 23 for this -- for this (indiscernible). 24 25 And where did you go after leaving He's my (indiscernible) peer-support person Q support"? And -- and what does that mean, "peer 237 Examination of Consider Vosu 1 A Someone to remove me from the scene; someone 2 to make sure that, I guess, I'm okay. 3 help put me in contact with the resources that I'm 4 going to need. 5 Q Mm-hmm. And also to And were you allowed to interact or 6 speak with any other officers after this incident 7 unfolded besides the peer officer? 8 A I spoke to my union rep. 9 Q Mm-hmm. 10 A And I spoke to the attorney that was given 11 to me. 12 Q And that was Mr. Starpoli -- 13 A That's correct. 14 Q -- who's outside? 15 A Yes. 16 Q You work with other officers at this 17 precinct; is that right? 18 A Absolutely. 19 Q And you see them like any other individual 20 who works every day, you see them day in and day out, 21 part -- part of your shift? 22 A That's correct. 23 Q Were you allowed to talk to any of them 24 25 after this incident? A No, I was not. 238 Examination of Consider Vosu 1 Q Okay. And -- 2 A There were -- there were, I should say, 3 officers that came up to say, "I hope you're all 4 right," to check on (indiscernible). 5 Q After you left the scene, did you make 6 yourself available for the detectives to do what's 7 called a round count? 8 A Yes, I did. 9 Q And what is a round count, from your 10 11 understanding? A From my understanding, a round count is 12 counting how many rounds are in the magazines of my -- 13 of my firearm as well as my (indiscernible). 14 Q And in that interaction, did they photograph 15 you as well? 16 A Yes, they did. 17 Q And in that interaction, did you also reveal 18 that you didn't have your Taser with you on your 19 person; and, in fact -- 20 A Yes. 21 Q Did you also present or allow the empty 22 Yes, I did. sheath to be photographed as well? 23 A Yes, I did. 24 Q And did you also show that you had your -- 25 in fact, your other knife that was in the -- the cargo 239 Examination of Consider Vosu 1 2 3 4 5 pants of your uniform? A I believe I did, but I wouldn't be able to say 100 percent. Q Okay. Did you sustain any injuries from this interaction with this individual? 6 A I did sustain some minor injuries. 7 Q What -- what injuries did -- if any, did 8 you sustain? 9 A I have a sprained right finger. I pulled my 10 back. I had -- I had a substantial bruise on my left 11 wrist, a bruise on my right thigh and a bruise on my 12 left calf. 13 Q Since this has occurred, there are certain 14 protocols in place that really kind of isolate you 15 from this whole investigation; is that accurate? 16 A Correct. 17 Q So in that period of time, as you say, 18 isolated, have you replayed this scenario and incident 19 in your head between the incident and -- and going 20 through grand jury today? 21 A Mm-hmm. On a daily basis. 22 Q Given what unfolded at the scene and how it 23 escalated into this dynamic situation, is there 24 anything you feel you could or should have done 25 differently than what you did inside that residence? 240 Examination of Consider Vosu 1 A You know, it's impossible to go back and to 2 try to think of different alternatives. 3 for going in was to protect the resident and it was to 4 stop things from getting worse. 5 what would happen if I had taken a different track. 6 All I know is that I had gone in with the intent of 7 protecting the resident. 8 Q 9 Mr. Gladen? 10 A My motivation There's no telling Did you -- was it your intent to kill Absolutely not. That is -- that's the last 11 thing that I would hope to have to -- I -- I never -- 12 would never want to do that ever. 13 every day. 14 Q I struggle with it And -- but since then, as you -- as you 15 recollect, you're standing in that corner reviewing 16 Mr. Gladen with the knife in his hand, do you believe 17 you had any other options at that point in time? 18 19 A At that point -- at that point, I had -- I had no option. 20 MR. HANNON: 21 grand jury have any questions? 22 Does anybody else from the A GRAND JUROR: I had one question about the 23 knife that the -- that he ended up with. 24 that knife whenever you're working? 25 part of your standard -- Do you carry I mean, is that 241 Examination of Consider Vosu 1 2 THE WITNESS: Yeah. It's zip tied to my -- to my external vest. 3 A GRAND JUROR: 4 THE WITNESS: It's zip tied? Ah, yeah. So that the sheath 5 can't -- can't come loose, it's tied -- it's tied into 6 place. It's secured on my vest -- 7 A GRAND JUROR: 8 THE WITNESS: 9 10 11 12 13 Okay. -- beneath my -- my tourniquet. BY MR. HANNON: Q Have you ever used that particular knife before in the line of duty? A I have used it, but for cutting police tape; 14 for opening sandwiches and cutting rope. 15 something that I've ever used in a self-defense 16 capacity. 17 A GRAND JUROR: What prompted you to pick up 18 the knife? 19 touch any of the evidence or anything? 20 It's not Aren't you guys typically trained not to THE WITNESS: What prompted me was that I 21 wasn't sure if he was -- that -- if -- if the threat 22 was still -- was still there. 23 BY MR. HANNON: 24 25 Q What -- what, in your head, or was your concern that could happen if you kept the knife 242 Examination of Consider Vosu 1 2 in place? A That he would go for it, that there would be 3 a struggle for a knife that's a short distance away; 4 that, I mean, I would either be trying to stop him 5 from going for the knife or potentially having to 6 shoot him again if he did retrieve that knife. 7 BY MR. HANNON: 8 Q 9 Mm-hmm. Anything else? Couple -- also follow-up questions. How 10 common is it for you to respond, not necessarily just 11 to unwanted subjects, but just either self-dispatch 12 or dispatch? 13 your own? 14 A How often do you dispatch to calls on Very often. Typically, if a call is not a 15 hot call, if it's a stolen car, if it's a trespass, 16 police don't dispatch to those. 17 Q And do you have any idea of, like -- well, 18 let me ask you this. 19 there partner cars versus single-occupant cars or does 20 everyone get a partner car or is everybody a 21 single-occupant car? 22 23 A Do -- on the patrol side, are There are partner cars, but that's more of the exception than the rule -- 24 Q Okay. 25 A -- for the -- for the -- for the most part 243 Examination of Consider Vosu 1 2 (indiscernible). Q And prior to this, had you ever been 3 involved in any other officer-involved shootings or 4 police shootings? 5 A I never have. 6 Q And prior to this, what was the -- on the 7 spectrum of use of force, obviously, you used less 8 lethal in this situation, using a Taser. 9 had you ever had a prior occasion to have to use your 10 Taser before this incident? 11 A I have. 12 Q Once before. 13 Had you -- I used my Taser once before. And is that the largest amount of use of force you've had to use in your career? 14 A Yes, that would be accurate. 15 Q And in all of these questions and prompting, 16 again, I'll -- I'll ask. 17 other choices that you -- you could make when standing 18 in that bedroom confronted with what you were 19 confronted with? 20 21 A Do you believe you had any He was -- when I -- when I fired, he was approximately five feet away from me. 22 Q Okay. 23 A A -- a second maybe from potentially 24 stabbing me. 25 Q Mm-hmm. 244 Examination of Consider Vosu 1 2 A (indiscernible). 3 4 At that point, I -- I had no choice but to MR. HANNON: Any other questions from the ladies and gentlemen of the grand jury? 5 A GRAND JUROR: You mentioned, in your 6 training, that often, you can deescalate a situation 7 just by the presence of the police or by the sirens. 8 Were your lights on when you arrived at that scene? 9 THE WITNESS: No. No -- no lights were on. 10 And, typically, we don't arrive to calls with lights 11 on. That's usually to expedite our arrival or -- 12 A GRAND JUROR: 13 THE WITNESS: Right. -- or to notate, "Hey, you 14 know, this is a -- a police scene," to keep people 15 away. 16 somebody along. 17 beginning. 18 BY MR. HANNON: 19 Q But this was just a common call of moving It was a low-key approach from the And was that your motivation when you were 20 trying to Mr. Pescaia or the -- the resident back into 21 his residence and shut the door? 22 A What, optimally, I would have liked to have 23 -- what I wanted to achieve was to move him along and 24 to do what I had told the resident I would do, to see 25 if I could get him some help. 245 Examination of Consider Vosu 1 I mean, obviously, things are not right if 2 he's got one shoe on and a hospital gown. 3 to try to give him a hand, to try to see if there was 4 something that could be done. 5 Q I was going And in your experience as a uniformed 6 officer, are you familiar with resources and community 7 partners out there to connect people who might be in 8 crisis or cold or hungry to get into shelters? 9 A Absolutely. 10 A GRAND JUROR: 11 MR. HANNON: 12 Yes. 13 A GRAND JUROR: Could -- Anybody else? Could you remind me about 14 how far the distance is from where this occurred to 15 the hospital that he was discharged from? 16 BY MR. HANNON: 17 18 19 20 21 22 Q How close are you -- how close is this residence to Portland Adventist? A It's very close. I would guess half mile, three-quarter mile, something like that. MR. HANNON: Anybody else? May this witness be excused? 23 GRAND JURORS: Mm-hmm. 24 MR. HANNON: 25 Why don't we go off the record. Okay. Thank you. Take a 246 1 break. 2 * * * 3 (Conclusion of Grand Jury proceedings, 4 2-21-19 at 3:43 p.m.) 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CERTIFICATE I certify, by signing be1ow, that the foregoing is a correct transcript, of the audio record in the above?entit1ed cause, as recorded on CD and transcribed to the best of my abi1ity and in accordance to the quaiity of the audio CD. KATIE BRADFORD, CSR 9070148 Court Reporter (503) 267?5112