Brian Sabolik * * * VIDEOTAPED INTERVIEW BRIAN SABOLIK * * * APPEARANCES: Scott Gardner John Saraya Patrick D'Angelo Jeffrey Follmer Steve Kinas ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC. 222 East Town Street, Second Floor Columbus, Ohio 43215-4620 (614) 224-9481 Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Brian Sabolik 2 1 MR. GARDNER: 2 speech we're giving everybody. 3 Gardner. 4 Cleveland. 5 over there. 6 We sort of have a canned My name is Scott I'm a detective with the City of East I'm attached to the Major Crimes Unit Most important thing is that you 7 understand this is not -- we are not conducting 8 an internal investigation. 9 criminal investigation. 10 all. 11 We're conducting the Nothing is to you at We're investigating the incident. Nobody here is judging you. Nobody's 12 going to be looking any differently at you. 13 We're just trying to figure out what happened. 14 THE WITNESS: Okay. 15 MR. GARDNER: Obviously other people 16 have come in. 17 honest as you can. 18 I can only stress, try to be as If you don't know something, just say, 19 "I don't know." It's better for you to say, "I 20 don't know" than us to run into inconsistencies 21 later. Okay? 22 THE WITNESS: 23 MR. SARAYA: 24 BCI. Okay. I'm John Saraya. I've been doing this for awhile. I'm with I've been Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Brian Sabolik 3 1 doing officer-involved shootings for about 15 2 years. 3 Okay? We are technically assigned as the lead 4 agency. 5 going to be given your Miranda warnings. 6 doesn't mean that you've done anything wrong. 7 just means that you have all rights and 8 protections just the same as everybody else. 9 THE WITNESS: 10 11 Our policy is, this is criminal. MR. SARAYA: You're It It Okay. If at any time you have a question, ask us. 12 If you have a moment that you think you 13 want to talk to these guys first, it's not a 14 problem to step outside, confer and come back. 15 All right? 16 17 18 THE WITNESS: (Affirmative nodding of head.) MR. SARAYA: We're not going to sit here 19 and point our fingers in your face and yell and 20 scream and throw tantrums or anything like that. 21 When we get into these, please don't 22 take the questions personally. Some of the 23 questions we're going to ask are to elicit more 24 detail and have you articulate things a little Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Brian Sabolik 4 1 bit farther. 2 There are a couple of questions that we 3 admit are eye-rollers. 4 "You're really asking me this?" 5 You know, it's like, And, yeah, we are, because we just need 6 the answers from you. 7 THE WITNESS: 8 MR. SARAYA: 9 Okay. Okay? It's not because we think you're dumb or incompetent. It's just 10 we're going to ask you because we need to ask you 11 this. We're asking everybody. 12 THE WITNESS: 13 MR. SARAYA: 14 THE WITNESS: (Affirmative nodding of MR. GARDNER: Having said that, I'm 15 16 17 Okay. Okay? head.) going to advise you of your rights. 18 THE WITNESS: Okay. 19 MR. GARDNER: You have the right to 20 remain silent. Anything you say can and will be 21 used against you in court. 22 consult with an attorney, have an attorney 23 present during questioning. 24 an attorney, one can be provided to you before You have the right to If you cannot afford Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Brian Sabolik 5 1 questioning at no cost. 2 Do you understand these rights? 3 THE WITNESS: Yes. 4 MR. GARDNER: Having them in mind, do 5 you wish to speak to me? 6 THE WITNESS: 7 8 Yes. EXAMINATION BY MR. GARDNER: 9 Q. Let's start off by, what's your name? 10 A. My name is Brian Sabolik. 11 Q. Spell the last name for me. 12 A. S-a-b-o-l-i-k. 13 Q. Brian, what's your address? 14 A. 15 . 16 Q. 17 you at? 18 A. 19 Q. 20 A. 21 Q. 22 23 24 What's -- what's a good number to get Your cell number? . Okay. That is my cell. Your date of birth? . All right. First question, how are you holding up? A. Tough sleeping at night a little bit, but... Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Brian Sabolik 6 1 2 Q. What's -- what's your current assignment there at CPD? 3 A. Second District patrol. 4 Q. How long have you been working for CPD? 5 A. About five months now, a little over. 6 Q. Worked anywhere else? 7 A. No. 8 Q. What shift are you on? 9 A. Second shift. 10 Q. What are the hours of that? 11 A. 2:30 to 12:30. 12 Q. 2:30 in the afternoon to 12:30 at night? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And what are your days off? 15 A. They kind of alternate. 16 We're on ten-hour shifts, so... 17 Q. What were your days off -- 18 A. I was just starting a five -- five-day 19 stretch, so that was my -- my Monday, the day of 20 the shooting. 21 22 Q. So you were off Tuesday -- Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Tuesday, Wednesday -- Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Brian Sabolik 7 1 MR. SARAYA: Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. 2 A. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. 3 Q. Who is your supervisor? 4 A. I have a few different ones. 5 Q. Who is your immediate? 6 to to ask for a day off or something? 7 8 A. There's a -- there's a few different ones. 9 10 Who did you go MR. KINAS: Who would be your boss the day of the event? 11 A. 12 Sergeant Chetnick, Lockwood. MR. SARAYA: Before we go much farther 13 here, five months, you're still working with an 14 FTO, then? 15 THE WITNESS: 16 MR. SARAYA: 17 THE WITNESS: 18 Q. 23 24 Mike Farley. Are you working any extra duties, details, part-time? 21 22 Who is your FTO? BY MR. GARDNER: 19 20 Yes. A. (Negative shaking of head.) Not allowed Q. The day of the incident, how were you to. feeling? Sick, flu, sneezing, coughing? Rested? Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Brian Sabolik 8 1 A. I -- I felt fine. 2 Q. Did you take any drugs, whether they be 3 prescribed or over-the-counter? 4 A. . 5 Q. Wear glasses or contacts? 6 A. No, I do not. 7 Q. I see that you've come here in your 8 uniform today. Is that -- is that how you were 9 dressed the day of? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Do you wear an exterior vest? 12 A. Yes, I do. 13 Q. Let's talk about your duty belt. 14 15 16 What do you have on your duty belt? A. I have my ASP, all my -- my ASP, radio holder, my gun, and two sets of cuffs. 17 Q. What about your vest? 18 A. On my vest I had my taser, pepper spray, 19 20 21 two magazines, and a flashlight holder. Q. Do you have a backup weapon that you carry? 22 A. No, I do not. 23 Q. Did you carry any type of personal 24 recording device, whether it be audio or video? Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Brian Sabolik 9 1 A. No. 2 Q. Let's talk about your car. 3 What kind of car were you in? 4 A. Crown Vic. 5 Q. Crown Vic? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Do you know what the car number is? 8 A. 232. 9 Q. And what was your call sign for that 10 Is that a marked cruiser? evening? 11 A. 2 Adam 24. 12 Q. 2 Adam 24? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And your car -- who was -- is -- your 15 FTO, I'm assuming, was in your car? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Do you have in-car dash cam or anything 18 He was the driver. like that? 19 A. No. 20 Q. Everything in the car -- you've got 21 lights and sirens? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Those were both working that night? 24 A. Yes. Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Brian Sabolik 10 1 2 Q. Anything else wrong with the vehicle, MDT, radio? 3 A. Not that I was aware of. 4 Q. While we're on the subject of the radio, 5 what channel were you guys on? 6 A. Channel 2. 7 Q. Channel 2? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. At any point did you deviate from 10 Channel 2? Did you switch channels or anything? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Let's talk about training. 13 Do you got anything -- any specialized training like SWAT? 14 A. No. 15 Q. Prior military? 16 A. No. 17 Q. Did you qualify with your weapons this 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. And what did you qualify with? 18 21 year? Like handgun, shotgun? 22 A. Handgun, shotgun. 23 Q. Any extracurricular -- 24 A. (Negative shaking of head.) Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Brian Sabolik 11 1 2 Q. Did you take your use of force training? Did you have use of force training? 3 A. (No audile response.) 4 Q. Everything was okay with your OPOTA, 5 up-to-date? 6 A. (No audible response.) 7 Q. Did you ever have any prior involvement 8 in any shootings? 9 A. No. 10 Q. Let's -- this is sort of your 11 opportunity to tell us through your words. 12 right? 13 All work at -- Let's talk about what you -- you got on 14 A. 2:30. 15 Q. -- 2:30. 16 17 about your day. A. Just tell us a little bit How did the shift go? Pretty uneventful. Pretty slow day. 18 don't remember exactly, but I want to say maybe 19 I six radio assignments. 20 21 22 23 24 MR. SARAYA: Okay. Making traffic stops or business checks? THE WITNESS: You know, I don't really remember exactly what -MR. SARAYA: Okay. Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Brian Sabolik 12 1 2 THE WITNESS: I just know that was a pretty slow day. 3 4 5 -- what we had done prior. MR. SARAYA: Okay. Fair enough. BY MR. GARDNER: Q. At some point you became aware that 6 something was happening? 7 you were? 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 A. Yes. Do you remember where We were on lunch at the Second District. Q. You were at the house, the station house? A. Yes. I was in the roll-call room. My partner was downstairs working out. Q. Okay. Then how did you become aware that something was going on? A. We were listening to the first couple minutes of the chase -- 18 Q. You guys -- 19 A. -- over the radio. 20 Q. On your portable? 21 You guys have speakers in the stationhouse? 22 A. Portable. 23 Q. So tell us what you did. 24 A. First couple minutes I sat there. My Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Brian Sabolik 13 1 FTO came up from the basement where the gym is 2 and said, "Do you want to get involved?" 3 4 And I said, "By the time we get there, it's probably going to be over." 5 6 And he said, "Do you want to get involved?" 7 8 9 And I said, "Yeah, let's go," and we ran out to the car and got in the car. Q. Okay. Then, approximately, when you get 10 in your car, do you remember where they were as 11 far as where they were in the pursuit or -- 12 13 14 15 A. I believe they were at that roundabout by Steelyard. Q. Okay. So you guys hop in your car. They're at the roundabout, somewhere in there. 16 A. Uh-huh. 17 Q. What did you do? 18 A. We went right to the highway. Got on -- 19 by the time we had gotten in the car and 20 everything, I think they had -- they were going 21 down 14th, I think it was, at Abbey and we're 22 beginning to jump on the highway, so we jumped on 23 the highway. 24 Q. 90? Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Brian Sabolik 14 1 A. Jumped on 71. 2 Q. 71, okay. 3 A. To go to 90. 4 Q. Okay. 5 A. We -- he pretty much drove as fast as he All right. What happened then? 6 could to try and catch up. 7 Curve, I believe, when they were at 72nd. 8 enter up to 72nd, got off. 9 We were at Deadman's We When we got off, we were following a 10 Third District car, because we figured they knew 11 where they were going. 12 where we were. 13 Q. We really don't know Was there any other cars in front of the 14 Third District car, or you're just following a 15 lone car trying -- 16 17 A. We were trying to follow a lone car to catch up. 18 Q. So what happens next? 19 A. Then we went down a few streets. 20 I don't really remember what they were. 21 Again, too familiar with the area. 22 I'm not But we pulled onto Wymore, I think it 23 was, and turned into the driveway to the school. 24 And as soon as we turned into the driveway, we Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Brian Sabolik 15 1 were right there. 2 Q. Okay. So when you're -- you're on, 3 probably, Euclid. 4 Third District car or do you -- 5 A. No. Is there just still that lone By that time I knew there were a 6 bunch of cars that had been pulling down 7 Wymore. 8 Q. Do you know approximately how many or -- 9 A. No. Because I think that that road is 10 kind of a dirt road or they're doing construction 11 or something, and they had kicked up a bunch of 12 dirt and we couldn't really -- couldn't see too 13 far ahead. 14 15 Q. Did you see any other agencies as far as cruisers? 16 A. No. 17 Q. Okay. 18 21 22 23 24 All right. I'm going to flip to -- let me show you a couple maps here. 19 20 All I saw was Cleveland. MR. SARAYA: (Inaudible) there, if need be. Q. All right. So you turn off to Wymore. So Euclid is down here. You turn off to Wymore. What you really can't see is there's -the access road is right here. Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Brian Sabolik 16 1 A. Okay. 2 Q. This is what you were describing, I'm 3 assuming, as the dirt coming up? 4 A. Uh-huh. 5 Q. Okay? So you come up with the drive. 6 I'm going to show you a closer picture. 7 essentially right here this lays on. 8 This is You're still behind cars, right? 9 A. Right. 10 Q. Marked cars? 11 A. (Affirmative nodding of head.) 12 Q. Do you recall, did you -- which drive 13 did you -- 14 A. We pulled down this drive here. 15 Q. This drive here? 16 A. Yes. 17 18 19 20 21 MR. SARAYA: driveway. Okay. You pull into the What's going on in front of you? THE WITNESS: As soon as we pulled up, we started hearing shots going off. MR. SARAYA: So you just -- Wymore -- 22 you cross Terrace. 23 this row of trees here. 24 You're in this driveway in Have you even made this turn yet when Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Brian Sabolik 17 1 you hear the gunfire or -- 2 THE WITNESS: 3 MR. SARAYA: 4 THE WITNESS: 6 MR. SARAYA: We were on that side. Okay. BY MR. GARDNER: 8 9 So you're actually up in this area here where the pavement changes? 5 7 Yes, we made the turn. Q. Can you do me a favor? We're trying to get approximate, doesn't have to be exact. Can 10 you just draw on the map here approximately where 11 your car was? 12 A. (Complies with request.) 13 Q. Okay. 14 A. About right there. 15 Q. That's when you started hearing gunfire? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Okay. A. As soon as I heard the shots, I said, 18 19 What's going on? What do you see? 20 "Oh, shit." I went like this because I thought I 21 was being -- we were being shot at. 22 Q. You're still in your car? 23 A. Still -- still in the car, yes. 24 I tried to duck down, tried and crouch down as low as I Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Brian Sabolik 18 1 could. 2 3 MR. SARAYA: Seriously. 4 5 Try crawling (inaudible)? THE WITNESS: Trying to get behind the engine block as best I could. 6 MR. GARDNER: 7 MR. SARAYA: 8 THE WITNESS: 10 MR. SARAYA: Uh-huh. And you say you are where again? 12 13 So this is some cars laid out here. 9 11 I have another one. Go ahead and just draw me out there a little car. 14 THE WITNESS: 15 MR. SARAYA: 16 Okay. And what's going on in front of you? 17 18 (Complies with request.) Is there another car in front of you, other zone cars? 19 THE WITNESS: The only cars that were in 20 front of us were 238 and 217. 21 MR. SARAYA: Okay. 22 the right -- I'm sorry. 23 Is there anybody to BY MR. GARDNER: 24 Q. Was there anybody to the right of you or Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Brian Sabolik 19 1 2 -A. I know there was a car there. I just 3 don't remember -- at that time I didn't know who 4 it was. 5 Q. But, I mean, there was a car there? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Just don't know who it is. 8 A. Yeah. 9 MR. D'ANGELO: 10 You said to the right? 11 MR. GARDNER: Where is it, I'm sorry? His -- 12 Q. The zone car to your right there. 13 A. We may have been up a little more, but 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 that was our approximate. Q. Okay. All right. And what's going on in front of you up there? A. I just seen a cloud of smoke and I keep hearing gunshots. MR. SARAYA: Are you hearing anything, people yelling, shouting? THE WITNESS: Not at that point. I really don't remember. 23 MR. SARAYA: 24 THE WITNESS: Okay. What happens next? After I ducked, I saw my Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Brian Sabolik 20 1 partner open his door, got out of the car. 2 And I remembered one of the things they 3 always told us in the academy is, "Get out of the 4 car because it's a coffin," so I thought, "okay, 5 I've got to get out of the car." 6 And when I opened the door, where I 7 thought we were being shot at was directly -- 8 where I would have got out was directly in the 9 line -- what I thought at the time was the line 10 of fire. 11 MR. SARAYA: 12 THE WITNESS: Okay. So after I got out of the 13 car, I turned and fired two rounds into the 14 windshield and then as I was running backwards to 15 try and get behind our car for cover. 16 BY MR. GARDNER: 17 Q. The questions were asked -- I mean, 18 we'll ask you specifically if you know 19 information now. 20 right now of what you knew then. Just try to give us the answers 21 A. Okay. 22 Q. Okay? 23 A. Uh-huh. 24 Q. So you fired how many shots, I'm sorry? Or what you thought then. Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Brian Sabolik 21 1 A. Two -- two shots. 2 Q. Into the windshield? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Do you know -- I mean, were you shooting 5 for anything in particular or -- 6 A. I was shooting for the driver. 7 Q. And then you retreated back? 8 A. Retreated behind the car. 9 Q. Which side? 10 A. I came around this way and then came 11 12 around to this side of the car. Q. 13 14 MR. SARAYA: THE WITNESS: Yes, my partner was next to me. 17 18 What -- was your partner there? 15 16 Okay. MR. SARAYA: All right. Now, I just want to clarify. 19 You're opening the door and you know 20 rounds are coming down your side of the car. 21 come out. 22 backpedaled? 23 24 You You take two shots and you THE WITNESS: I was shooting as I was going backwards like this. Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Brian Sabolik 22 1 MR. SARAYA: 2 At that time did you know how many 3 Okay. All right. rounds you fired? 4 THE WITNESS: 5 MR. SARAYA: 6 THE WITNESS: Okay. How did you know it was two rounds, then? 7 No. After -- I'm sorry. 8 everything was done, I knew that I had shot 9 twice. After I guess I didn't know at the time that it 10 was two rounds. 11 BY MR. GARDNER: 12 Q. That's fine. 13 A. After when they did the -- they did a 14 How did you find out? check of our weapon. 15 Q. Do you know who checked your weapon? 16 A. It was Lieutenant Timm. 17 Q. Did they take your weapon at that point? 18 A. No, not at that point. 19 20 21 22 We had to go downtown and turn it in. Q. I mean, they didn't remove it to inventory? A. They -- they removed it. They checked 23 it, checked the rounds and everything. 24 it back to us. Then gave Then we had to go downtown and Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Brian Sabolik 23 1 turn them in. 2 3 MR. SARAYA: You bail out, you come around the backside of the car. 6 THE WITNESS: 7 MR. SARAYA: 8 THE WITNESS: 9 MR. SARAYA: 10 THE WITNESS: 12 MR. SARAYA: 13 THE WITNESS: 15 16 I fired again. You fired again? Yes. Okay. What were you aiming Same -- same spot. Same spot? Yes. BY MR. GARDNER: Q. Just -- okay. Just so I'm understanding -- I'm a little confused now. 17 18 What happens next? at then? 11 14 We kind of jumped ahead there. 4 5 All right. Did you -- did you fire two rounds then or two rounds total? 19 A. Four rounds total. 20 Q. Four rounds total? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Okay. 23 24 MR. SARAYA: Now, you go across the hood, across the roof of the car as you're -- are Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Brian Sabolik 24 1 you hunkered down behind the car? 2 3 THE WITNESS: little bit. 4 5 I engaged, fired again. MR. SARAYA: Okay. Where was your partner, your left or your right? 6 THE WITNESS: 7 MR. SARAYA: 8 Hunkered down, popped up a My partner was on my left. On your left, okay. BY MR. GARDNER: 9 Q. What are you -- what are you seeing up 11 A. When I was firing, I was looking at the 12 driver. And then I stopped firing because I saw 13 somebody jump on the hood of the car. 10 here? 14 Q. Which -- 15 A. A police officer. 16 Q. The hood of the suspect car? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Do you know what that was? 19 A. Not -- not at the time I didn't. 20 Q. Did you see what they were doing? 21 A. Yes. Q. So you initially -- you stopped 22 23 24 They were shooting down into the car. firing -Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Brian Sabolik 25 1 A. 2 Q. Yes. -- not because everything was calm at 3 that point, it was just someone was in your 4 direct line? 5 A. I didn't want to hit, correct. 6 Q. Okay. 7 A. I'm not too sure. 8 Then what happens? I want to say I made my way up to behind this car. 9 Q. Okay. 10 A. Yeah. 11 Q. Shooting was still happening? 12 A. No. Q. So primarily the way you recall is, a 13 14 The CPD car? By that time the shooting was done. 15 guy jumps on top, he shoots inside, and then 16 everything stops? 17 18 A. at that point. 19 20 That's really the last thing I remember MR. SARAYA: verbal commands, "hold fire," "cease fire"? 21 THE WITNESS: 22 MR. SARAYA: 23 24 Anybody still yelling out I couldn't tell you. Okay. BY MR. GARDNER: Q. During any part of the pursuit did you Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Brian Sabolik 26 1 or your partner -- I guess it probably would be 2 you. 3 Did you guys use the radio at all? A. 4 5 No. MR. SARAYA: What were you hearing on the radio? 6 THE WITNESS: We heard that the suspect 7 was pointing a gun out the window. 8 person that was calling out the chase said -- I 9 remember him saying, "Be careful, he's pointing a 10 gun." 11 12 We heard the MR. SARAYA: Okay. What else did you hear? 13 THE WITNESS: Just the streets that we 14 were passing -- they were passing in the Second 15 District. 16 were actually in pursuit, we heard them calling 17 out the streets. And then once we got in the car and 18 MR. SARAYA: 19 THE WITNESS: 20 21 22 Okay. On the -- on the east side. MR. SARAYA: Did you hear anybody broadcast their car getting rammed? 23 THE WITNESS: 24 MR. SARAYA: Yes. Okay. Do you remember Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Brian Sabolik 27 1 about where you were at when you guys heard it? 2 3 THE WITNESS: was. 4 5 MR. SARAYA: Were you guys in the pursuit when that happened? 6 7 I don't remember where I THE WITNESS: I -- the initial time it got rammed, I don't believe we were. 8 MR. SARAYA: 9 time it got rammed"? 10 THE WITNESS: Why do you say "the initial Because there was one time 11 that it was called out on the radio before all of 12 this -- 13 MR. SARAYA: 14 THE WITNESS: Okay. -- that they -- that I 15 remember Sergeant Coleman saying that, "He hit my 16 car." 17 18 MR. SARAYA: Okay. Where was the first time you saw the suspect vehicle? 19 THE WITNESS: 20 into this drive here. 21 22 MR. SARAYA: As soon as we had pulled Okay. So at no time during the pursuit -- 23 THE WITNESS: 24 MR. SARAYA: No. -- you laid eyes on the car Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Brian Sabolik 28 1 then? 2 THE WITNESS: 3 MR. SARAYA: 4 No. Okay. What kind of speeds were you going during the pursuit? 5 THE WITNESS: On the highway I believe 6 we were up to 100 miles-an-hour. 7 off, I -- I couldn't tell you, because -- 8 MR. SARAYA: 9 THE WITNESS: 10 MR. SARAYA: 11 THE WITNESS: 12 Once we got What did it feel like? I -- I really don't know. than the speed limit. 13 14 15 16 MR. SARAYA: Fast? Slow? Fast for sure. Faster Okay. BY MR. GARDNER: Q. And this is the first time you've seen the suspect vehicle, is up here? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. You would have no idea how -- 19 A. As soon as we turned that corner. 20 Q. Do you have any idea whether -- it may 21 be by radio traffic. 22 was driving? 23 A. 24 Any idea how the vehicle I -- it sounded like it was going fast. That's all I could gather. They weren't really Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Brian Sabolik 29 1 broadcasting their speeds. 2 Q. Were you aware of the sex and race 4 A. No. 5 Q. Are you aware now? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Have you heard the names before? 8 A. No. 9 Q. I mean, do you know -- do you know the 3 10 then? names now, I should say? 11 A. Oh, yeah, I know the names now. 12 Q. You don't remember the -- the names, 13 ever having any prior dealings with them? 14 A. No. 15 Q. Or anything like that? 16 A. (Affirmative nodding of head.) 17 Q. I'm showing you the two pictures. Have 18 you ever had any prior dealings with them, seen 19 them before? 20 A. (Negative shaking of head.) 21 Q. How would you consider the lighting in 22 23 24 the parking lot? A. Was it dark, lit? I -- I could see. I mean, it was a lighted parking lot, but it -- it was nighttime. Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Brian Sabolik 30 1 MR. SARAYA: Granted you have all the 2 cruiser lights flashing and everything else. 3 good of view do you have? 4 car at all? 5 THE WITNESS: 6 MR. SARAYA: 7 Yes. Okay. THE WITNESS: 9 MR. SARAYA: 10 What can you see I can see two figures. Okay. THE WITNESS: The windshield was pretty messed up from bullets. 12 MR. SARAYA: 13 THE WITNESS: 14 MR. SARAYA: 15 Can you see inside the inside the car? 8 11 How Okay. I saw two figures inside. Could you see them moving around inside? 16 THE WITNESS: 17 moving. 18 No, I didn't see them BY MR. GARDNER: 19 Q. Did you ever see any weapons as far 21 A. No, I did not. 22 Q. Did you believe that you were being shot A. Yes, with all my heart. 20 23 24 as -- at? Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Brian Sabolik 31 1 Q. He already asked you, or I believe he 2 asked, did you hear any verbal commands, "Cease 3 fire, stop"? 4 A. I couldn't tell you. 5 Q. You said that when you were -- you had 6 7 8 come over here, correct, for the initial shots? A. For the initial shots, as soon as I exited the vehicle, I fired. 9 Q. Did you see any officers in this area? 10 A. Not that I remember. 11 Q. And then you came up? 12 A. I came back around our car and fired 13 14 from here. Q. Okay. Do you remember seeing any 15 officer -- well, I know you said later you saw 16 that one. 17 18 19 Prior to that, did you see any officers in here? A. I -- at that point when I fired, I 20 didn't see anybody. 21 next to one of the officers from this car behind, 22 in the back of this car here. 23 24 Q. I remember, after, being Okay. MR. SARAYA: You think your rounds hit Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Brian Sabolik 32 1 anything? 2 THE WITNESS: 3 MR. SARAYA: 4 THE WITNESS: 5 I don't know. Okay. I would assume so, because I was aiming for the -- for the driver, so -- 6 MR. SARAYA: Your heart rate's up, 7 adrenaline's pumping, breathing heavy. 8 happens. 9 So it When you're back here, -- 10 THE WITNESS: Yes. 11 MR. SARAYA: -- again, this is your 12 opinion, how far away are you from that suspect 13 vehicle? 14 15 THE WITNESS: I thought we were about 40 feet. 16 MR. SARAYA: 17 THE WITNESS: Okay. I mean, when we first 18 pulled up, I thought we were actually a lot 19 closer than we were. 20 right there. 21 And I -- it felt like I was That's -- and that's why I said, "Oh, 22 shit," and ducked, because I thought we were 23 literally right there. 24 I don't know if I had tunnel vision or Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Brian Sabolik 33 1 what, but I thought we were right on the vehicle 2 pretty much. 3 4 5 6 MR. SARAYA: Okay. BY MR. GARDNER: Q. This question is one of those questions that he sort of touched on too, lightly. 7 A. Uh-huh. 8 Q. It's okay if you get offended. 9 probably be offended also. 10 I would All right? Was there -- if your opinion, was there 11 any availability or anything else that could have 12 been done other than what was done? 13 A. In my opinion, I really don't know. 14 Q. Do -- do you -- 15 A. I -- I would have to say no, because I 16 17 18 feared for my life. Q. Given the circumstances of the pursuit, you were hearing radio traffic, right, guns? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. So you believed them to be armed, 21 correct? 22 A. Yeah. 23 Q. You heard radio traffic when you were 24 pulling up -- or actually you said you heard the Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Brian Sabolik 34 1 2 shots flying, correct? A. 3 4 Pulling up, yeah. MR. SARAYA: How long did it feel like that you heard gunfire? 5 THE WITNESS: 6 MR. SARAYA: Two hours. No, it -- No, that's a fine answer. 7 I don't have a problem with that. 8 interpretation. 9 THE WITNESS: 10 MR. SARAYA: 11 Uh-huh. THE WITNESS: 12 As that's what we're after. It felt like they just went on forever. 13 This is your BY MR. GARDNER: 14 Q. Did you -- did you call for EMS? 15 A. No, I did not. 16 Q. Did you hear anyone else call for EMS? 17 A. I didn't. 18 Q. Whether it be on radio, did you hear 19 anybody? 20 A. I didn't hear. 21 Q. After everything calmed down, what did 22 23 24 you do; did you reload your weapon? A. The first thing I did was check my vest to see if I was hit. Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Brian Sabolik 35 1 Q. And were you injured? 2 A. No. 3 Q. At any point did you come up and move 4 anything from the area? 5 A. No. 6 MR. SARAYA: 7 THE WITNESS: 8 Go up, look at the car? I looked in the car, but I was kind of at a distance. 9 MR. SARAYA: 10 THE WITNESS: I was never -- Okay. -- never even close. 11 Probably like the closest I was was maybe 15 12 feet. 13 14 15 MR. SARAYA: Okay. BY MR. GARDNER: Q. Do you recall statements of other 16 officers, anything sticking out in your head 17 right after? 18 A. The -- one of the things that the guy 19 that I was supposed to work with this month, I 20 went up to him and I said, "Well, it looks like 21 I'm not working with you this month." 22 23 24 And he shook my hand and said, "It's okay." And then he said, "Why are your hands Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Brian Sabolik 36 1 shaking?" 2 MR. SARAYA: 3 THE WITNESS: 4 Who was that? Carl Dooley. BY MR. GARDNER: 5 Q. What were your hands shaking? 6 A. Because I was just involved in what I 7 thought was a shootout. 8 MR. SARAYA: 9 THE WITNESS: 10 (Affirmative nodding of head.) 11 You thought right. BY MR. GARDNER: 12 Q. When we ask this question, people 13 sometimes get a little apprehensive. 14 nothing wrong if you did, we just need to know. 15 16 There's Did you speak to anyone, reference this incident, other than union and attorneys? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Who did you speak with? 19 A. My family. 20 Q. Anyone else? 21 A. Friends I received texts from that said, 22 "I heard you were involved." 23 24 And the only thing I responded was, "I'm okay." Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Brian Sabolik 37 1 2 Q. Have you spoken with any officers referencing this incident after? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Who was that? 5 A. The people that were -- the thirteen -- 6 or I shouldn't say thirteen -- a couple of the 7 guys that you guys have interviewed so far. 8 9 Q. What -- what was your conversation, the course of conversation? 10 A. 11 experienced. 12 Q. 13 Just talking about what we Do you believe your actions were consistent with your training? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Do you believe that others' actions were 16 consistent with their training? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. I can't -- this next question I can't 19 emphasize the importance of honesty. 20 21 All right? Did you at any point take any photographs -- 22 A. 23 Q. 24 A. No. -- of the scene? No. Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Brian Sabolik 38 1 MR. SARAYA: 2 THE WITNESS: 3 4 No cell phone pictures? No cell phone pictures. BY MR. GARDNER: Q. Has anyone, maybe through the course of 5 the conversation with the thirteen or anyone 6 else, advised you to lie or sway your answers in 7 any way -- 8 A. 9 Q. 10 A. 11 12 No. -- to us? No. MR. SARAYA: something here. 13 THE WITNESS: 14 MR. SARAYA: 15 16 17 18 I want to go back to Uh-huh. Only because you're a relatively new guy here. Have you ever been in any other pursuits in the few months you've been here? THE WITNESS: We were in one that lasted 19 ten seconds. 20 The car went rolling down the street. 21 22 23 24 Then the guy bailed from the car. MR. SARAYA: A ten-second pursuit. Does that qualify as a pursuit, ten seconds? THE WITNESS: We didn't even have time to call it out, but we had to do a -- we had to Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Brian Sabolik 39 1 fill out paperwork for the pursuit. 2 3 MR. SARAYA: Get the guy in a foot chase? 4 5 Okay. THE WITNESS: No. He was gone. He was fast. 6 MR. SARAYA: Okay. Five months on the 7 job and you only get one pursuit that lasted ten 8 seconds. 9 10 MR. FOLLMER: hell if you would've catched him. 11 12 You'd probably catch more THE WITNESS: That's funny. I'm the fastest man alive. 13 MR. SARAYA: Your very first one you 14 usually have no clue what happened. 15 rammed up -- 16 THE WITNESS: 17 MR. SARAYA: 18 gotcha. The guy My first one we caught. Oh, (inaudible) okay, I've I gotcha. 19 THE WITNESS: The first two. 20 MR. GARDNER: Good for you. 21 MR. SARAYA: 22 23 24 I used to have a guy on my shift we called the gazelle. He was a runner. You said later on you found out what was up on the hood of the car? Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Brian Sabolik 40 1 THE WITNESS: 2 MR. SARAYA: 3 THE WITNESS: 4 Yes. How did you find that out? Because he was talking about it. 5 MR. SARAYA: 6 THE WITNESS: 7 MR. SARAYA: 8 THE WITNESS: 9 MR. SARAYA: He was talking about it? Uh-huh. Who was that? Mike Brelo. Did you see anybody stand 10 on any of the zone cars there? 11 THE WITNESS: 12 MR. SARAYA: 13 14 15 I didn't see anybody. Okay. Anything you think we need to know about here we didn't ask you? Any other details you want to add, anything you want to say about it? 16 THE WITNESS: 17 MR. SARAYA: No, I don't believe so. Okay. You're in this 18 pursuit, you're in lights and sirens while you 19 guys are doing this? 20 THE WITNESS: 21 MR. SARAYA: Yes. No doubt in your mind the 22 bad guys knew that there's cruisers behind them 23 chasing them? 24 THE WITNESS: Oh, absolutely. Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Brian Sabolik 41 1 2 MR. GARDNER: Do you have any questions, Counselor? 3 MR. D'ANGELO: 4 MR. GARDNER: 5 MR. SARAYA: No. You good? All right. I need you to 6 -- you were drawing on this -- if you could, 7 initial off and put your badge on that for me. 8 THE WITNESS: 9 MR. SARAYA: 10 THE WITNESS: 12 MR. SARAYA: 13 THE WITNESS: 14 MR. SARAYA: 16 Excellent. Sabolik is how you pronounce that? 11 15 (Complies with request.) Yes. What nationality? Slavic. Oh, okay. I'm Croatian. Okay. Anything else comes up along the way, 17 you want to reach out to us, reach out to these 18 guys, contact us. 19 We always ask for a point of contact 20 just in case we need you. 21 something comes up, we're going to reach out to 22 them first. 23 THE WITNESS: 24 MR. SARAYA: Obviously, if Okay. Okay? Nothing else I can Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Brian Sabolik 42 1 think of. All right? 2 THE WITNESS: 3 MR. SARAYA: 4 THE WITNESS: 5 (End of videotaped interview.) 6 (End of videotaped interview.) 7 Okay. I appreciate it. Thank you. * * * 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Brian Sabolik 43 1 C E R T I F I C A T E 2 - - - 3 STATE OF OHIO : SS: 4 COUNTY OF FRANKLIN : 5 I, Jennifer L. Parish, Registered 6 Professional Reporter, do hereby certify that the 7 foregoing is a true, correct, and complete 8 transcription of the above-mentioned videotaped 9 interview of BRIAN SABOLIK to the best of my 10 ability. 11 12 DATED this 14th day of February, 2013. 13 14 15 16 _________________________ JENNIFER L. PARISH, RPR NOTARY PUBLIC-STATE OF OHIO 17 18 My Commission Expires: November 23, 2014. 19 20 21 22 23 24 Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481