Erin O'Donnell * * * VIDEOTAPED INTERVIEW ERIN O'DONNELL * * * APPEARANCES: Scott Gardner John Saraya Patrick D'Angelo Jeffrey Follmer Steve Kinas ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC. 222 East Town Street, Second Floor Columbus, Ohio 43215-4620 (614) 224-9481 Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 2 1 MR. SARAYA: I'm John Saraya with BCI. 2 We are working on this with -- in a task 3 force-type fashion. 4 kind of got almost like a panel interview. 5 got some questions that we're going to go through 6 that everyone gets asked the same thing. 7 What we've done is, we've We've Please don't feel funny if we ask 8 certain questions. We're trying to get you to go 9 into details, make sure we're getting all the 10 information we can from you. 11 to be a couple questions I'm sure that will be 12 kind of an eye-roll-type thing. 13 And there are going It's not that we're belittling you or 14 second-guessing you or anything like that. It's 15 just, like I said, we're trying to elicit details 16 here, making sure that we're getting all the 17 information we need. Okay? 18 THE WITNESS: Okay. 19 MR. GARDNER: I'm Scott Gardner. 20 detective/sergeant with East Cleveland. 21 I'm a assigned to Major Crimes. 22 I'm Just like he stated, we're -- we're not 23 here to judge what happened. 24 one way or another. We have no opinion We truly are just trying to Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 3 1 attempt to find out what happened. 2 I'm assuming probably your union reps 3 have advised you that, I mean, we are going to 4 read you your Miranda warning. 5 you're a suspect. 6 point that it be done. It's not because It's just a formality at this All right? 7 THE WITNESS: Okay. 8 MR. GARDNER: You have the right to 9 remain silent. Anything you say can and will be 10 used against you in a court of law. 11 right to consult with an attorney and have an 12 attorney present during questioning. 13 cannot afford an attorney, one can be provided to 14 you before questioning at no cost. 15 16 You have a If you Do you understand these -- each of the rights? 17 THE WITNESS: Yes. 18 MR. GARDNER: With these rights in mind, 19 do you wish to speak to us now? 20 THE WITNESS: Yes. 21 MR. GARDNER: Again, like I said, it's 22 sort of standardized questions that we're just 23 going to run down. 24 you. We've asked everyone before We're going to ask primarily the same Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 4 1 questions to everybody after you. 2 3 EXAMINATION BY MR. GARDNER: 4 Q. Let's get off -- what's your first name? 5 A. Erin, E-R-I-n, O'Donnell, O apostrophe 6 D-O-N-N-E-L-L. 7 Q. Okay. And where -- where do you live 8 at? This isn't public information. 9 to be redacted. 10 Q. 12 A. 13 Q. 14 But it's part of the report. A. 11 It's going A. 15 . Yes. . . 16 Q. 17 A. 18 Q. 19 Do you want an address? What's the zip out there? . What's a good contact number for you? You have a cell phone or -- 20 A. Cell, 21 Q. Date of birth? 22 . MR. D'ANGELO: 23 last person. 24 A. We missed that on the . Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 5 1 2 Q. All right. First question, just how are you holding up at this point? 3 A. Okay. 4 Q. What -- what's your current assignment 5 there at Cleveland? 6 A. Third District Vice detective. 7 Q. And are you assigned to a specific shift A. It's Fourth Platoon hours, usually 1800 8 or -- 9 10 to 0200. 11 12 Q. Do you remember what it was on Thursday? Was it those hours, 1800 to 0200? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Your shift supervisor? 15 A. Sergeant Putnam, P-U-T-N-A-M. 16 Q. And he was working that day or -- 17 A. Correct. 18 Q. What are -- what's your regular -- do 19 you have regular days off, or how does that work 20 for you? 21 22 A. In November we were off Saturday, Sunday; but it -- 23 24 It varies monthly. Q. That doesn't seem like too bad of a deal. Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 6 1 A. No. It -- that's the first Saturday, 2 Sunday we've had in a while. 3 Sunday, Monday. 4 out with the new captain and new commander. 5 6 Q. Usually it's But they're trying to work stuff Do you work any extra-duty detail, overtime? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Is that like a -- is that through the 9 City? 10 11 Off-duty? A. Part-time deal? It's off-duty secondary employment. Commander Stevens runs it. 12 13 I work at Tower City. Q. And when was -- on Thursday were you working within 48 hours? 14 MR. SARAYA: 15 you work that detail? 16 THE WITNESS: 17 MR. SARAYA: 18 THE WITNESS: Tuesday to Wednesday did 19 Sure. I think I did work that day. 20 21 Can I check my book? MR. SARAYA: Relax. Whatever you need to do. This is a formality. 22 THE WITNESS: 23 MR. SARAYA: 24 THE WITNESS: That was the 29th? Yes. Yes. I did. Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 7 1 2 MR. SARAYA: You did work it on the 29th? 3 THE WITNESS: 4 1800. 5 Correct. I worked 12 to BY MR. GARDNER: 6 7 Went from there straight into work. Q. How are you feeling that night? you groggy? Tired? Alert? Were How was your -- 8 A. I was fine. 9 Q. Fine? 10 A. Yeah. 11 Q. Any -- any sickness, cold, flu? 12 A. No. 13 MR. SARAYA: 14 What's -- how long have you been at 15 Cleveland PD? 16 17 THE WITNESS: I'm going into my fifteenth year. 18 19 Jump back for one minute. MR. SARAYA: Anywhere before that, any other agencies? 20 THE WITNESS: 21 MR. SARAYA: 22 Stay-at-home mom. Big jump stay-at-home mom to being a cop. 23 No. BY MR. GARDNER: 24 Q. Were you taking any medications, Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 8 1 2 prescribed, over-the-counter? A. 3 4 5 Q. 6 MR. SARAYA: 7 THE WITNESS: 8 9 10 MR. SARAYA: 11 12 13 THE WITNESS: BY MR. GARDNER: 14 Q. 15 A. 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Q. Do you normally wear glasses or contacts? A. No. I do have them, but I don't usually wear them. Q. Just to sort of clarify, I mean, you don't need them or -A. Once in a while for reading or on the computer, but for the most part I can see very Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 9 1 well without them. 2 3 Q. And I somewhat remember you were in plainclothes that night, correct? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Tell -- tell -- remind me, how were you 6 -- how were you dressed? 7 A. I had jeans on, a sweatshirt. I had my 8 black Body Armor vest that has pockets in the 9 front that says Police across the front and the 10 back. 11 top; and it had a Police on the left breast. 12 And I had a jacket, blue jacket, over the Q. What -- what do you normally carry as 13 far as non-lethal, lethal? 14 have on you? 15 A. My taser. I mean, what do you I have my handcuffs. 16 extra magazines. Hand sanitizer. 17 I have to do the whole thing? 18 Q. No. 19 A. Flashlight. 20 21 22 Do you want me I mean -The usual. The flashlight, then the drug bags. Q. More so looking for what kind of weapons, like less than lethal. 23 A. And then my Glock. 24 Q. Did you have pepper spray, anything like Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 10 1 that? 2 A. I did carry my pepper spray, and lately 3 I haven't been because I put an extra flashlight 4 in. 5 Q. It's always amazing to me when -- you've 6 been on the road a little while longer than I 7 have -- but when I was on the road I always had 8 Purell that would hang from my belt. 9 would also ask, "Well, what's that green thing?" Everybody 10 They didn't care what anything else was. 11 just said hand sanitizer, so.... 12 13 You Didn't have any backup firearms or anything like that? 14 A. No. 15 Q. How did you carry -- I mean, were your 16 magazines -- what condition were they in? 17 Were they fully loaded? 18 A. Fully loaded in my pouch right in front. 19 Q. What -- I can't remember what weapon you 20 had there. 21 magazine? 22 A. How many did you have in each Fifteen in the Glock 19. 23 MR. KINAS: 24 THE WITNESS: You carried a Glock 19? (Affirmative nodding of Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 11 1 head.) 2 Q. So 15, 15, and 16? 3 A. Correct. 4 Q. And the magazines are carried in the 5 pouch on the exterior or -- 6 A. Yes, in my center pouch. 7 Q. Did you have any personal recording 8 devices or anything like a tape-recorder or -- 9 A. No. 10 Q. Some people have the little movie 11 cameras. Anything like that? 12 A. No. 13 Q. Let's talk about your car. 14 What -- it's an unmarked car? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. What kind of car is it? 17 A. It's a black Taurus. 18 It has lights in the front and the rear, the red and blue. 19 Q. Equipped with siren? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Everything working that night okay? 22 A. Yes, it was. 23 Q. Anybody else in the car with you? 24 A. Yes. Detective Demchak was driving. Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 12 1 Q. Demchak? 2 A. D-E-M-C-H-A-K. 3 Q. No personal dash cam or anything in the 5 A. No. 6 Q. What channel do you guys operate on? 7 A. Tac 3. 8 Q. Tac 3? 9 A. (Affirmative nodding of head.) 4 car? 10 MR. SARAYA: That's not the Third 11 District channel. 12 channel for all the zone cars, or is that -- 13 That's -- that's not the THE WITNESS: No. It's an extra 14 channel, because we do a lot of undercover work 15 and we don't want to tie up radio or the air. 16 usually have one on regular three. 17 MR. KINAS: 18 MR. SARAYA: 19 We (Inaudible)? That's fine. That's why I wanted to clarify. 20 MR. KINAS: Channel 3, you have the Alt 21 channel, and then you have the Tac channel. The 22 Alt channel will allow you to hear any of the 23 channels that are there but only broadcast on its 24 own. Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 13 1 MR. SARAYA: 2 MR. KINAS: Okay. The Tac channel is dedicated 3 to itself, so you can only hear if your both 4 radios are on the Tac. 5 Channel 3. 6 7 8 9 10 MR. SARAYA: And the same with Gotcha. BY MR. GARDNER: Q. So how were you able to -- were you able to hear the pursuit traffic or -A. No. My partner and I had just finished 11 up booking a male we had arrested just prior to 12 10:30. 13 booking this male and had just pulled into the 14 Third District parking lot when we observed 15 Sergeant Putnam and Detective Ereg running to 16 their car. 17 something serious was happening. 18 Q. We had just left the Justice Center after And Sarg had his AR15, so we knew Just so I'm understanding, on Tac 3, 19 though -- during the pursuit were you hearing 20 information on Tac 3 or -- 21 A. No. We had turned our radio off, 22 because when you go up into the jail I usually 23 have my personal radio that's in my vest on 24 regular channel; and then the car radio's on Tac. Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 14 1 I had turned my personal radio off, because up in 2 the jail it bleeps and it makes noise because it 3 says Out of Range. 4 So I had turned it off and not turned it 5 back on when we got back in the car, because we 6 knew we were just heading back to the district to 7 do paperwork. 8 9 10 Q. Do you have any specialized training in any like SWAT, anything that's -A. Other than the regular classes that I've 11 taken, no. I've done some private training. 12 worked two 90-day details with the ATF. 13 Q. Prior military? 14 A. No. 15 Q. Qualified this year? 16 A. I Yes. 17 18 MR. SARAYA: 21 Shotgun? Anything else? 19 20 Handgun? THE WITNESS: Both handgun and shotgun. BY MR. GARDNER: Q. Are supervisors -- just for my 22 knowledge, are supervisors primarily the only 23 people that have the ARs? 24 A. No. Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 15 1 Q. 2 No. A lot of people? All right. Okay. Use of force training? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Ever had any prior shootings? 5 A. No. 6 Q. All right. 7 go into it, so just burn away for a second. 8 9 You guys were booking a prisoner in and you were coming back down, you said? 10 11 I sort of -- you're sure to A. Yeah, heading back to the Fifth District -- Third District, sorry. It's the Fifth Third. 12 Q. Okay. 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. He's running around with his AR15, so 15 So you see Sergeant Putnam? obviously something's going on. 16 A. Correct. They were heading to the car. 17 We pulled up beside them, because we had just 18 pulled into the lot. 19 our cars. 20 going on?" 21 or if it was Ereg that said, "They're shooting at 22 the police. 23 2." 24 heading eastbound on 90. We didn't even get out of Pulled up beside him and said, "What's And I don't remember if it was Sarg Turn to Tac 2 -- or turn to Channel And we did that and heard a vehicle pursuit I believe at that time Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 16 1 they were approaching Chester. 2 Q. So what happened? 3 A. Once they passed Chester and we knew it 4 was pointless to head down Chester to 55th, we 5 started heading north down -- I believe we went 6 down East 105. 7 should take MLK or head towards 72nd. We were determining whether we 8 Once they stated they were trying to get 9 off at 55th but missed the exit, I said, "They're 10 probably going to get off at East 72nd, so let's 11 head that way." 12 13 14 15 And we headed to 72nd. Just prior to us getting to East 72nd and St. Clair they came through the intersection. Q. So did you actually see them at the intersection at that point? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Okay. 18 A. We tried to stay -- I don't want to say What happened after that? 19 paralleling, but we tried to stay in the area in 20 case the suspects bailed from the vehicle. 21 tried to stay a couple blocks on either side. 22 23 24 Q. So we Do you -- what are you hearing at this point on the radio? A. There was someone stating that, "Be Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 17 1 careful, I believe the passenger is holding a 2 gun." 3 was pointing the gun out the window. 4 else stated it was a pop can. 5 later you hear that they were loading -- it 6 appeared "The passenger was loading a weapon, so 7 be careful, keep your distance." 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 We heard at one point that the passenger Q. Somebody And then moments And this -- is this all prior to you getting to 72nd or after, or some before? A. Some before. Some as they're crossing through and still driving. Q. So were you sort of like stationary at the intersection when they drove past or -A. Yes, yeah, because they were just all 15 driving; and that's when we chose to go up -- 16 they went south on I believe it was Addison and 17 we went I believe south on 71st -- or 79th and 18 maybe they were at 71st. 19 20 Q. Did you actually see the suspect vehicle at this point? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Did you see the occupants inside? 23 A. No. 24 Q. All right. So you -- you go off Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 18 1 somewhat, using my own words, parallel to them on 2 71st and -- 3 A. On 79th. 4 Q. Oh, I'm sorry, 29th. 5 A. On seven-nine. 6 Q. Okay. 7 A. They headed eventually eastbound on Wade And then -- then what happens? 8 Park and then southbound on I'm not sure what 9 street, I think it might have been 118th, and 10 then eastbound an Euclid. 11 broadcasting, you know, "Keep your distance 12 because we believe they have guns." 13 Q. Again still What kind of -- I mean, like are you 14 seeing -- seeing them at any point? 15 slowing up, speeding up? 16 vehicle -- vehicle doing? 17 A. Are they What's the suspect The only time that I believe they slowed 18 up was on Euclid when traffic began to -- the 19 zone cars began to back up. 20 back in the pursuit. 21 Q. Okay. We were pretty far Did -- how were -- how did they 22 appear to be driving? 23 following the law pretty much or -- 24 A. No. I mean as far as were they They were out of control. Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 19 1 MR. SARAYA: 2 THE WITNESS: Who was out of control? Whoever was driving the 3 vehicle, the suspect vehicle. 4 MR. SARAYA: 5 THE WITNESS: Why do you say that? No regard for human life, 6 running lights, driving not in the right lanes. 7 BY MR. GARDNER: 8 9 10 11 12 Q. So they were crossing into opposite lanes of traffic? A. Yes. They were doing whatever they could to get away from the police at that time. Q. May sound like a stupid question. 13 Do you have any doubt in your mind that 14 they knew that the police were behind them or -- 15 A. Oh, they knew, yes. 16 Q. All right. 17 eastbound. 18 So we're on Euclid heading happens then? 19 A. We're passing East 118th. What Someone called out to notify East 20 Cleveland. Somebody else said Cleveland Heights. 21 They're asking for spike strips, "See if anyone 22 has spike strips in the area." 23 Q. All right. 24 A. And then they made a right-hand turn -- Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 20 1 I'm not sure what the name of that street was -- 2 so we took the right after that. 3 4 Q. turn. All right. So they made a right-hand You went to the next -- 5 A. Correct. 6 Q. -- road, made a right. 7 A. Again, just in case a foot pursuit 8 9 10 entailed. Q. If I told you the name of the street, would it remind you, or -- 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. -- do you not know? 13 A. No, it probably -- W. 14 Q. Wymore? 15 A. Right. 16 17 18 And we took the street whatever is right next -- east of that. Q. Would it be Lee? Does that sound familiar? 19 A. I believe it was. 20 Q. So then what happens? 21 A. You could see several -- I could see 22 several police cars following them down Wymore; 23 and all of a sudden one of the officers says, 24 "There's no way out." Somebody might have said, Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 21 1 "This is a deadened. 2 Be careful." And as we're coming up, you could see 3 cars heading down. 4 not to go any further south on Lee, because if 5 they bailed they were going to come towards us. 6 Because you could see a big hill, and I figured 7 it would be harder for them to go up the hill. 8 We stopped right there, and you could 9 10 I told my partner to hold up, see the congestion backing up -- I could see the congestion backing up with the cars. 11 I told my partner to hop the curb and 12 head over that way. 13 curb, I heard a couple of shots; and you heard at 14 least one person, possibly two different people, 15 state, "They're shooting at us." 16 And as we were hopping the As we pulled the car a little bit 17 further westbound, the car was still coming 18 towards the police cars that were kind of -- 19 20 Q. I'm going to -- I'm going to show you an overview photo just for everybody's benefit here. 21 This is Lee road here. 22 access. 23 this. 24 This is the It doesn't really show it too well on from Wymore. This is the access drive that comes up Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 22 1 A. Okay. 2 Q. This is -- 3 A. This is Lee. 4 Q. -- Lee Road. 5 So you guys -- when you say you guys 6 hopped the curb, right in here, like in here? 7 8 A. We hopped the curb here and came right into this area. 9 Q. In the grass? 10 A. It was on the grass, correct. 11 Q. And this is where you start -- when do 12 you -- I don't want to put words in your mouth. 13 When do you start hearing shots fired? 14 15 A. you could hear -- I heard a couple shots. 16 17 18 Just as we're coming up over the curb Q. Heard it or heard it on the radio or A. No, both. both? I heard it outside the car. 19 And I told my partner, "Be careful." 20 up over, and the congestion started right in this 21 area with the cars. 22 ducked down, because we didn't know where -- 23 which way the shots were going to go. 24 And we came And at that point we kind of They said that they're firing, we knew Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 23 1 the car was coming back, so we figured, you know, 2 depending on who's firing, they could be coming 3 any way. 4 My partner pulled a little bit further 5 forward, and we hear a few more pops as we're 6 getting out of the car. 7 There was, I'm not sure exactly where it 8 was, but a police car right here. 9 I'd say we were right in this grass area here. And I went 10 to the front door of the police vehicle that's 11 over here, and it was pretty much -- 12 MR. SARAYA: 13 How about that? 14 there. Okay? Let's use this one now. You've got the car we want This is our suspect vehicle. 15 THE WITNESS: 16 MR. SARAYA: Right. Okay. So go ahead and draw 17 on there to your heart's content of where you 18 guys were about. 19 20 21 22 23 24 THE WITNESS: Do you want where our car was originally? MR. SARAYA: Where your car is at. Where you got out on foot. THE WITNESS: I believe our car was right about here. Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 24 1 MR. SARAYA: 2 THE WITNESS: 3 MR. SARAYA: 5 THE WITNESS: Okay. We -- I got out on foot and went to the front of this car here. 7 MR. SARAYA: 8 THE WITNESS: 9 Might have been a little bit further, like there. 4 6 Okay. Okay. I'm not sure if there was another car here or not, but I know that I had a 10 clear shot from the front of this car to the 11 passenger. 12 MR. SARAYA: 13 THE WITNESS: Okay. As I took cover by the 14 front of that car, I looked to see behind, 15 because somebody started yelling, "Crossfire. 16 Watch crossfire." 17 playground area. 18 now numerous shots were ringing out; and I could 19 see the driver and the passenger both moving. 20 thought the driver was shooting, and it looked to 21 me like the passenger was reloading. 22 There was nobody over in the I looked to the vehicle, and I drew my weapon. I Again, there was 23 nobody on the other side, so I fired several 24 shots into the passenger window, which no longer Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 25 1 existed. I don't know if the window was down or 2 if it had already been shattered. 3 MR. SARAYA: 4 THE WITNESS: 5 Do you know how many shots? I shot 12 times. I thought I shot 5 or 7. 6 MR. GARDNER: And you said at the 7 passenger window, but it wasn't actually there 8 anymore at this point? 9 THE WITNESS: 10 MR. SARAYA: Correct. When you got -- when you 11 walked up to this cruiser here, when you took 12 your position, was that window still intact at 13 that time or was it already gone by the time you 14 got there? 15 16 THE WITNESS: gone. 17 18 MR. SARAYA: Okay. BY MR. GARDNER: 19 20 I believe it was already Q. Originally you thought it was five to seven? 21 A. Correct. 22 Q. And then how do you know that it was A. When they asked us to remove our 23 24 12? Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 26 1 magazine. 2 Q. Do you remember who asked for that? 3 A. I do, but I'm drawing a blank on his 4 name. He's got a brother that's on the job. 5 MR. KINAS: 6 THE WITNESS: 7 MR. KINAS: 9 MR. GARDNER: 10 12 13 14 Yes, thank you, Stacho. Sergeant Stacho. 8 11 Stacho? MR. KINAS: Tim Stacho. S-T- -A-C-H-O. Internal Affairs. BY MR. GARDNER: Q. Did he take your whole gun, just the magazine, or what? A. He -- he took the whole weapon and then 15 asked for my other magazines, and then he 16 returned them after they checked to see how many 17 rounds were fired. 18 Q. How long do you think -- again, just in 19 your opinion, how long do you think the shooting 20 was going on for? 21 A. Seconds. 22 Q. Do you know where your -- where your 23 24 partner was at this point? A. I do not. Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 27 1 Q. Do you know who was -- well, let me ask 2 you, was there anybody at the driver's side of 3 this cruiser? 4 A. Yes, there is. 5 Q. Who was that? 6 A. I -- I don't know him well. 7 8 9 Biler? Q. Beeler? I didn't know his name at the time. He was at that driver's side of that patrol car? 10 A. Correct. 11 Q. Did you see any other officers around -- 12 A. Detective Ereg was to my immediate left, 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 and he was yelling out, "Cease fire." Q. That was towards the -- at which point was he yelling? A. Towards the end of the shooting. There weren't too many rounds going off by then. Q. Did you see a gun or hear gunfire from the suspect's vehicle? 20 A. I believed I heard gunfire, yes. 21 Q. When -- when this car was coming back 22 towards this way and you were running up, did you 23 see anything else happen? 24 A. No, I didn't. Because we were coming up Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 28 1 over the curb, we didn't have a clear view. 2 There were so many cars. 3 4 Q. A. I heard over the radio that he struck car? 5 6 Did you see it strike the other police several police cars. 7 Q. Along the way -- I mean, I understand 8 that, again, my words. You were paralleling the 9 pursuit in most of the regards. But at any point 10 did you see anything being thrown from the 11 vehicle or -- suspect vehicle? 12 A. 13 14 MR. SARAYA: Okay. I'm going to jump back here a second. 15 You come up to where the marked unit is 16 at. 17 firing. 18 No, I did not. You said you -- you thought the driver was What -- what gave you that impression? THE WITNESS: Because I saw the 19 passenger's hands or arms that were down towards 20 the lap, which made me believe that the passenger 21 was reloading. 22 shots that were occurring, I believed that the 23 driver was shooting at the police officers and 24 the police officers were responding or returning And due to the numerous amount of Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 29 1 fire. 2 3 MR. SARAYA: Thank you. BY MR. GARDNER: 4 5 Okay. Q. How would you describe your proximity to the vehicle during the pursuit? 6 A. We were pretty far back. There were 7 numerous cars in front. 8 because we were trying to stay off a block or 9 two. 10 11 And, again, when we -- Usually there might have been one car with us, maybe two. Q. How would you describe traffic during -- 12 let's start with maybe the early part of the 13 pursuit. 14 the streets? 15 A. How would you describe the traffic on For the most part the side streets were 16 clear. 17 Euclid; but by the time we came through, cars 18 were pulled over. 19 20 Q. The only part that was congested was When did you become first aware of the sex and race of the occupants? 21 A. After the shooting. 22 Q. You knew it was a male and a female at 23 24 that point? A. I believed it was two males. Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 30 1 Q. Have you heard the names by this point 3 A. I have. 4 Q. Names sound familiar to you? 2 5 or -- Have you ever had dealings with them in the past? 6 A. Not to my knowledge. 7 Q. Have you seen pictures of them? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. You don't recognize them? Don't 10 remember them from any other calls or any other 11 situations or anything? 12 A. Not that I recollect, no. 13 Q. Okay. 14 How would you describe the lighting at the scene here? 15 MR. SARAYA: 16 A. 17 Your interpretation. It was somewhat lit, but it was still pretty dark. 18 MR. SARAYA: 19 explain that answer. 20 A. Okay. Now you've got to There were lights, but I believe they 21 were off on either side in the distance. 22 weren't like a streetlight right up above. 23 24 MR. SARAYA: Okay. They What about with all the patrol cars there? Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 31 1 A. 2 3 4 Other than all the red-and-blue lights? MR. SARAYA: A. Distracting. on the lighting. 5 Uh-huh. But my focus really wasn't I -- MR. SARAYA: Okay. 6 Q. Did you issue any verbal commands? 7 A. No. 8 Q. Did you hear anyone else issue verbal 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 commands? A. Yes. Detective Ereg. And there were quite a few coming off from the northeast. Q. Anything that stands out, I mean, as far as your memory what they were saying? A. "Cease fire." I guess I did issue one. When I went to 16 check after somebody else ceased fired and the 17 firing had stopped, I walked over to the 18 passenger, because I was so close, I was going to 19 check for a pulse, but there was so much glass 20 and blood; and I didn't have gloves and it didn't 21 appear that the passenger was alive. 22 walked over towards the driver side. 23 24 And then I Someone was coming up with a shotgun; and I just said, "Don't shoot me." And I checked Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 32 1 the driver and -- was about to check the driver; 2 and, again, the same, so much glass and blood and 3 I didn't have gloves. 4 "Call the EMS." 5 6 Q. A. 8 okay to say. Q. 14 If you don't know, it's All right? You somewhat answered the question. But did you observe weapons from the suspects or -- 12 13 I don't recall. MR. SARAYA: 10 11 Did you hear -- did you hear any of the officers issuing commands to the suspects? 7 9 And someone was yelling, A. When I went to look at them, no, I did Q. So the movements -- any other movements not. 15 that -- you were saying that you were pretty 16 close to the passenger. 17 anything else? 18 of movement, it looked like she was reloading. 19 Anything else that you can remember? 20 A. No. Did you see her doing You said she was making some sort When she stopped moving -- well, I 21 say "she" because I didn't know at the time but 22 now I do. 23 when I stopped shooting. 24 Q. When the passenger stopped moving is Do you know where -- and again this Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 33 1 is -- 2 MR. SARAYA: 3 Q. 4 of question. 5 Subjective. were hitting? 6 7 A. -- an often subjective insensitive sort But do you know where your rounds I'm not 100 percent, but I believe I did hit the passenger. 8 Q. Do you know where? 9 A. Center mass is what I was aiming for. 10 Q. Some of these questions are the 11 questions he's referring to where you're welcome 12 to reach across and slap me on the face on some 13 of them. 14 15 16 But was there any other availability or practicality of other options? A. 17 18 Okay? None that I could tell. MR. SARAYA: Okay. Let's back up a second here. 19 You're standing and you just get out of 20 your car. All right? 21 as you're getting out of the car? 22 THE WITNESS: 23 MR. SARAYA: 24 Were rounds already flying They were, yes. Okay. So the -- outside of engaging, there's no other practical options, get Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 34 1 back in your car and drive away or anything else. 2 That's what I'm -- that's what we're getting at. 3 THE WITNESS: 4 MR. SARAYA: 5 THE WITNESS: Oh, absolutely not -Okay. -- other than getting back 6 in my car and leaving, and I -- I wasn't going to 7 do that. 8 9 MR. SARAYA: position or anything like that. 10 THE WITNESS: 11 MR. SARAYA: 12 Drawing up in a fetal Right. Okay. BY MR. GARDNER: 13 Q. Any other observations that sort of 14 stick out in your mind as far as other officers' 15 actions? 16 there? Anything that struck you funny up 17 A. No. 18 Q. You said that somebody was calling -- or 19 shouting out to call for EMS. 20 Did you call for EMS? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Do you know who called for EMS? 23 A. I do not. 24 Q. After -- after the shooting and things Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 35 1 subside, what are you doing at this point? 2 3 4 MR. SARAYA: shooting. A. Your actions after the Did you reload your gun? No. I went down and checked to see how 5 they were. 6 arriving on scene and asking anyone who shot to 7 stand in this area and non-shooters to go to 8 another area. 9 And then several supervisors were Prior to that fire came through, and I 10 just asked if they could get by our car -- or by 11 the car that was in there, parked up on the side; 12 and they said that they could get through. 13 MR. SARAYA: 14 THE WITNESS: Where were they going? To check on -- I guess 15 they were called in connection with the shots 16 fired. 17 18 MR. SARAYA: injured at all? 19 THE WITNESS: 20 MR. SARAYA: 21 No. Flying glass? Stray round hit you in the vest or anything like that? 22 THE WITNESS: 23 MR. SARAYA: 24 After the fact were you No. No? BY MR. GARDNER: Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 36 1 Q. Do you remember what -- do you remember 2 any specific statements afterwards from what 3 everybody's talking about afterwards or -- 4 A. Other than the fact that there were a 5 lot of shots fired and people were hitting the 6 ground, that was -- 7 Q. After this happened you guys are sort of 8 lined up. 9 up the shooters, non-shooters. 10 11 I guess the supervisor had you lined Is anybody making any statements that come to mind? 12 A. No. 13 Q. Since the incident obviously you've 14 talked to union reps, you've talked to the 15 attorney. 16 regarding this incident? 17 not a bad thing that you did. 18 verify and know that you've talked to somebody. 19 A. Have you spoken to anyone else Before you answer, it's I talked to my dad. 20 best friend, Marjorie. 21 I just need to Then I talked to my job. 22 Q. She used to be on the Have any of the officers contacted you 23 or have you contacted any of the other officers 24 that were involved in this incident after? Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 37 1 A. 2 Only to see if everybody's okay. MR. SARAYA: Do you know which officers 3 those were that you guys were checking? 4 like everybody's checking in with each other or 5 somebody in particular? 6 THE WITNESS: Is this My partner, Detective 7 Demchak. 8 sergeant. 9 couple of other guys from the unit called. 10 11 Detective Ereg. He made sure we were okay. MR. SARAYA: THE WITNESS: 13 MR. SARAYA: 15 16 And then a That weren't involved in it? 12 14 We talked to our Correct. Okay. BY MR. GARDNER: Q. Were you yourself in fear of your safety, safety of others? 17 A. Absolutely. 18 Q. Can you describe a little bit? 19 A. When the shots rang out, it was do I 20 crawl into the glove box of my car or do I get 21 out there and assist my fellow officers? 22 not a coward, so I got out there to help. 23 Q. Scared? 24 A. Absolutely. And I'm I just know I had a better Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 38 1 angle, because I wasn't right in front of the 2 car. 3 4 Or I believed I had a better angle. Q. Do you believe your actions were consistent with training? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Do you think that everyone's actions 7 there that night was consistent with training? 8 A. 9 10 MR. SARAYA: eye-rollers now. 11 12 Yes. All right. These are two All right? Has anyone asked you to lie or otherwise try to influence your statements to us? 13 THE WITNESS: 14 MR. SARAYA: 15 phones with cameras. 16 and taking pictures at the scene or anything like 17 that that you saw? 18 THE WITNESS: 19 MR. SARAYA: 20 No. Everybody's carrying cell Anybody pulling them out Not to my knowledge. Okay. BY MR. GARDNER: 21 Q. Did you make any calls from the scene? 22 A. Yes. I called my daughter. 23 get ahold of her. 24 mom. Couldn't And then I called my dad and a And when I couldn't get ahold of my Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 39 1 daughter, because I didn't know that I would be 2 home in time to drive her to school, I called my 3 aunt, who stays at my house. 4 5 6 Q. that you think is important that we should know? A. 7 8 Is there anything else that we skipped No. MR. SARAYA: Counsel, do you have anything? 9 MR. D'ANGELO: Sergeant Putnam, your 10 supervisor, was he present on the scene? 11 see him? 12 THE WITNESS: 13 MR. D'ANGELO: 14 MR. GARDNER: 15 MR. KINAS: 16 THE WITNESS: 18 MR. KINAS: 20 Yes. That's all. Go ahead. What was your call number, your call sign? 17 19 Do you 3 Victor 83. (Inaudible) never ask that (inaudible) everybody else. You guys went to Channel -- from Channel 21 3 to Channel 2. Did you stay on Channel 2 for 22 the entire duration of the incident? 23 THE WITNESS: 24 MR. KINAS: Yes. And your partner was driving Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 40 1 the car? 2 THE WITNESS: 3 MR. SARAYA: 4 anything here. 5 Yes. Let me see if I have notes. 6 7 I have several other pages of MR. KINAS: You guys are killing a lot of trees. 8 MR. SARAYA: 9 wholesale, believe me. 10 MR. D'ANGELO: Through the State we get it 11 Do you mind if we step out a second? 12 MR. SARAYA: Absolutely. 13 (Pause in proceedings.) 14 MR. D'ANGELO: Absolutely. Upon reflection of the 15 question did she take a picture, she took a 16 picture on her cell from a distance. 17 18 I guess when you located a vantage point when you -- 19 THE WITNESS: 20 MR. D'ANGELO: Where we first came in. And that was triggered by 21 the question about another officer. 22 that question -- 23 24 MR. SARAYA: Okay. So to answer So you took a picture. Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 41 1 2 MR. D'ANGELO: And that was triggered by the question about another officer. 3 So answer that question. 4 MR. SARAYA: 5 your phone? 6 THE WITNESS: 7 MR. SARAYA: 8 point of view again. 9 10 11 12 THE WITNESS: MR. SARAYA: 14 MR. SARAYA: Give me the You're parked up here? Yeah. It's probably right Up from where you -- from Correct. Do you still have that on your -- on your phone? 16 THE WITNESS: 17 MR. SARAYA: 18 THE WITNESS: 19 MR. D'ANGELO: 21 From -- okay. where you fired. THE WITNESS: 20 Yes. in this area. 13 15 So you -- you took it on I believe I do. Check that for me. (Checking phone.) And as you're doing that, explain the other matter. THE WITNESS: My partner who was next to 22 -- well, coworker who was next to me at the time, 23 Detective Ereg, took one closer up; and I asked 24 him to send it to me, and he did. Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 42 1 2 MR. SARAYA: Did you send this picture anywhere? 3 THE WITNESS: 4 Here's the photo that I took. 5 MR. SARAYA: 6 THE WITNESS: 8 MR. SARAYA: 10 Okay. This was your point of view from that night? 7 9 No. Correct. No. Did it go black? It's okay. these you can rotate them through. problem. 11 Some of Okay. No All right. Do you have a problem signing a consent 12 for me so we can walk back to Cyber Crimes and 13 they can pull that picture off of your phone? 14 THE WITNESS: No, that's fine. 15 MR. GARDNER: Do you -- is there another 16 photograph? Do you have that still? 17 THE WITNESS: 18 MR. KINAS: 19 MR. SARAYA: 24 Technically (inaudible) evidence we're supposed to pull it. 22 23 Could you just e-mail that photo up to Cyber Crimes? 20 21 Yes. MR. KINAS: I just figured it would be easier. MR. SARAYA: Probably. Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 43 1 MR. D'ANGELO: 2 MR. SARAYA: What, to forward it? Yeah. Let me double-check. 3 I would rather pull it just to follow evidentiary 4 procedures. 5 one picture off of here -- two -- two pictures. 6 The one that -- 7 8 MR. GARDNER: MR. SARAYA: THE WITNESS: MR. GARDNER: 14 MR. SARAYA: MR. D'ANGELO: THE WITNESS: MR. D'ANGELO: 24 So this is the one that Right. That's where I was Okay. Where is the other one? 22 23 I want that and the one shooting from. 20 21 I don't care about that. you took? 18 19 It's all pretty much that Ereg sent you. 16 17 Yeah, we're not going to photos from part-time and -- 13 15 And we're not requesting carve through anything else. 11 12 We just want anything else on the phone. 9 10 It's just real simple. THE WITNESS: (Pulls up picture on the phone.) MR. SARAYA: And it's a Verizon? Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 44 1 THE WITNESS: 2 MR. SARAYA: 3 THE WITNESS: Samsung. 4 MR. GARDNER: Is that the other photo? 5 THE WITNESS: Yes. (Shows photograph.) 6 MR. SARAYA: Okay. I'll pass this over 7 to you. 8 Yes. What make phone? paper.) 9 You can read the legalese. (Hands Let me walk back to Cyber Crimes and 10 give them the heads-up we're going to want them 11 to pull two pictures for us. 12 Leave that here right now. 13 MR. FOLLMER: 14 MR. SARAYA: Oh, okay. That's fine. All it says 15 is you're granting us consent to go through all 16 the cyber stuff and we're going to keep the image 17 -- a copy of the image. 18 (Pause in proceedings.) 19 (Mr. Saraya and Mr. Follmer exit the 20 21 interview room.) MR. D'ANGELO: I just want to confirm 22 that this is just for these two photos. 23 about all this other jargon. 24 MR. GARDNER: It talks Yeah, I don't -- this is Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 45 1 their form, so I'm not familiar with it. 2 (Reviews document.) 3 Let me see if I can just have him -- 4 would you feel more comfortable if he just added 5 here two -- 6 MR. D'ANGELO: 7 photos, nothing else. 8 MR. GARDNER: 9 Only -- only the two That seems to be broad. I'm sure it's like a generic form that they use. 10 MR. D'ANGELO: Uh-huh. 11 (Mr. Saraya enters the interview room.) 12 MR. GARDNER: John, can we put 13 more-specific language on here just -- it's only 14 those two photos? 15 16 MR. D'ANGELO: The letter is pretty broad. 17 MR. SARAYA: It is. Because I just went 18 back, and they said basically for the software 19 they've got to bump everything to pull those 20 images out. 21 MR. D'ANGELO: 22 that. 23 Well, we don't consent to to you. 24 I mean, we'll -- we're happy to forward it MR. SARAYA: Well, the other Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 46 1 alternative, then, is then we're going to seize 2 it and go get a warrant. 3 MR. D'ANGELO: 4 MR. GARDNER: Yeah. Do you maybe want to have 5 a discussion with him? 6 else on the phone, maybe you want to have a 7 discussion with him in private. 8 THE WITNESS: 9 If there's maybe anything MR. D'ANGELO: 10 There's not. Well, let's have a conversation in private. 11 THE WITNESS: 12 MR. D'ANGELO: 13 destroy evidence. 14 Okay. We're not going to conversations. 15 That's why we're having the So you're saying they're going to -- so 16 I understand, they're going to, like, take 17 everything -- 18 19 MR. SARAYA: They just do a full dump of the phone and we'll pull those pictures off. 20 MR. D'ANGELO: 21 MR. SARAYA: (Inaudible.) If you want, our Cyber 22 Crimes guys are in there. 23 be able to explain it too. 24 MR. D'ANGELO: Or Dennis or Mark will Okay. Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 47 1 (Pause in proceedings.) 2 MR. SARAYA: 3 Just one more we got right. (Laughs.) 4 MR. GARDNER: 5 MR. SARAYA: They require -Yeah, print and signature. 6 And, Counselor, if you could witness that also. 7 You can have that one. 8 9 How's that? And actually when you get done, if you could initial off on that too that you -- that 10 was your doodles on that spot. 11 THE WITNESS: 12 MR. SARAYA: 13 THE WITNESS: 14 MR. SARAYA: 15 (Complies with request.) And signature on that one. (Complies with request.) On the drawing here if you could just initial off on that as well. 16 THE WITNESS: 17 MR. SARAYA: (Complies with request.) And while my brain is 18 functioning here, first page of notes for you, 19 what is your badge number? 20 THE WITNESS: 21 MR. SARAYA: 22 1027. Give me a few moments and we'll take care of this. 23 (Mr. Saraya exits interview room.) 24 MR. GARDNER: Did you eventually move Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 48 1 your car, like after the shooting? 2 3 THE WITNESS: We were told by a supervisor to move it. 4 5 Yes. MR. GARDNER: Did you pull it in front of -- or pull over here? 6 THE WITNESS: Yes. 7 MR. GARDNER: Okay. Just so I know, 8 it's like the lighter-colored car, is that 9 representing where -- 10 THE WITNESS: Where what? 11 MR. GARDNER: What kind of vehicle was THE WITNESS: A Taurus, black Taurus. 12 it? 13 14 We moved onto the playground. 15 MR. GARDNER: 16 MR. D'ANGELO: 17 Oh, okay, okay. Does it take a while to do that? 18 MR. KINAS: Yeah. 19 MR. D'ANGELO: 20 MR. KINAS: It does? Yeah. Depends on actual 21 transfer rate, how many -- how much memory she 22 has on -- megabytes on the phone to transfer. 23 Did you have a lot of pictures? 24 THE WITNESS: They're all from work, Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 49 1 but -- 2 MR. GARDNER: Larger than 200K? 3 THE WITNESS: No, probably not that 4 many. 5 BY MR. SARAYA: 6 Q. While they're doing that, I've got to 7 ask you a couple questions here, because 8 apparently the media is reporting that 9 supervisors went on the air and told cars to 10 break off the pursuit. 11 Did you hear anything like that? 12 13 A. I was on Channel 2. I did not hear Q. Well, that's where the whole pursuit was that. 14 15 No. on was Channel 2, wasn't it? 16 A. The -- 17 Q. This started out on Channel 2. 18 A. Correct. 19 Q. So anything going on -- then you said 20 supervisors were present, they were involved. 21 Yes? 22 A. Correct. 23 Q. Okay. 24 So -- but you don't remember hearing anybody saying, "Break it off"? Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 50 1 A. 2 That's correct, I do not. MR. D'ANGELO: Okay. It's a sound byte 3 that was on Channel 5, the Fifth District -- a 4 Fifth District boss went on there; but that was 5 for the Fifth District personnel. 6 7 MR. KINAS: It was a supervisor who told their cars, "Do not engage in the chase." 8 MR. SARAYA: 9 MR. D'ANGELO: 10 grabbing that from. 11 Okay. That's where the media is terminate. 12 The Second District did not In fact, Sergeant Coleman and Sergeant 13 Daley from the Second, they were part of the 14 pursuit. 15 MR. KINAS: 16 MR. SARAYA: 17 MR. GARDNER: 18 19 20 And nobody (inaudible). Okay. So let's clarify that, then. Each district has its own marching orders, per se? 21 MR. SARAYA: 22 THE WITNESS: Yes. 23 MR. GARDNER: Okay. 24 Its own chain of command? So just because the Fifth District boss tells Fifth District to Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 51 1 terminate, that doesn't necessarily mean for you 2 to terminate. 3 THE WITNESS: If the Fifth District boss 4 came over Channel 5, I would have not heard the 5 Fifth District boss say that. 6 MR. SARAYA: Okay. Gotcha. Gotcha, 7 gotcha. 8 Getting to be more and more like Colombo than 9 anything else. 10 11 Something else I wanted to revisit here. One thing I forgot to ask. You guys were running -- you're parallel -- 12 THE WITNESS: 13 MR. SARAYA: 14 this. 15 whole caravan go by. 16 Yes. -- kind of paralleling suspect vehicle? 17 You said at one point you could see the THE WITNESS: 18 MR. SARAYA: 20 THE WITNESS: Did you see the It depends on what intersection it was. 19 All right. 21 22 Okay. For the most part, only the zone cars. MR. SARAYA: How many times did you -- 23 were you able to see them crossing in front of 24 you or running parallel to you? Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 52 1 THE WITNESS: 2 MR. SARAYA: 3 Okay. During the pursuit did you see the suspect vehicle? 4 5 I don't know exactly. THE WITNESS: Initially saw it on St. Clair by East 22nd. 6 MR. SARAYA: 7 Uh-huh. THE WITNESS: And maybe one other time, 8 and I'm not sure where it would have been. 9 then not until the end. 10 MR. SARAYA: Okay. And You're watching the 11 whole caravan go by, the zone cars. 12 agencies you see in there, or are they all 13 Cleveland cars? 14 15 THE WITNESS: Any other I believe they were Cleveland. 16 MR. SARAYA: Okay. Any unmarkeds in the 17 procession that you noticed, or were they all 18 marked cars? 19 20 21 THE WITNESS: There were a couple unmarked. MR. SARAYA: Okay. So you didn't see 22 the highway patrol car in there or the sheriff's 23 car or anything like that? 24 THE WITNESS: No, I didn't. Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 53 1 2 MR. SARAYA: Okay. I think there was something else. 3 This should be relatively quick. All 4 pictures are stored on an SD card in your phone, 5 so all they've got to do is pull the card, copy 6 that, and be done. 7 About how fast do you think you guys 8 were going during the pursuit? 9 THE WITNESS: 10 MR. SARAYA: 11 THE WITNESS: I don't know. Guesstimate? With -- since I wasn't 12 driving, sometimes we were going pretty fast. 13 really have no idea. 14 MR. SARAYA: Okay. I You guys were 15 running lights and siren as well as everybody 16 else? 17 THE WITNESS: 18 MR. SARAYA: 19 MR. GARDNER: 20 me out with this. 21 Yes. Okay. I'm a little slow. Help Vice? 22 23 24 3 V is Third -- Third District MR. KINAS: Third District. You know what, let me get you a call sign cheat sheet. MR. GARDNER: Okay. Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 54 1 MR. KINAS: I'm also going to run you a 2 V class cheat sheet tomorrow so you'll understand 3 the V days when they say "I'm in (inaudible) 4 class" or "I'm in H," so you'll know what days 5 they have offage. 6 MR. GARDNER: 7 MR. KINAS: 8 Okay. But that would be Third District Vice. 9 Any of the eighties are vice cars. 10 80 would be a supervisor. 11 So sequentially numbers by cars. 12 13 MR. GARDNER: 81, 2, 3 would be So this was an 83rd vice car. 14 MR. KINAS: Yeah. This wasn't 15 necessarily set shifts. 16 designates what shift they're on. 17 MR. GARDNER: 18 MR. KINAS: 19 MR. GARDNER: 20 MR. KINAS: 21 Okay. Except in the case of vice. So it's shifts. Okay. So -- but the 80 is your sergeant. 22 THE WITNESS: 23 MR. KINAS: 24 The third number usually Correct, 3 CM 80. If the second designation is an S, it's for supervisor. Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 55 1 MR. GARDNER: 2 MR. KINAS: Supervisor? And that's the standard. 3 All the CM 50s are the commanders. 4 First District commander. 5 Second District commander. 6 7 2 CM 50 would be I'm the one that entered that, so I know this best. 8 MR. GARDNER: 9 MR. SARAYA: 10 So 1 CM 50 is Oh, okay. We've got the right guy here, then. 11 MR. KINAS: Although it's not being used 12 the way we wrote it up for the ten-hour shifts, 13 but.... 14 15 MR. SARAYA: Okay. Perfect. You guys came up this way or you came up Lee Road? 16 THE WITNESS: 17 MR. SARAYA: 18 this one. 19 We came up Lee. Okay. So let's start with You guys come up here and then baha'd the curb here -- 20 THE WITNESS: 21 MR. SARAYA: 22 Right. -- come across this part and then keep driving down the grass. 23 THE WITNESS: 24 MR. SARAYA: Correct. Okay. Gotcha. Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 56 1 I appreciate you coming out with the 2 picture on the phone. 3 know, it's just one of those things because we 4 need to know what goes on. 5 (Inaudible.) But, you There have been many a time where 6 someone grabs a picture right away at the scene 7 and by the time Crime Scene gets there things 8 have been kicked and moved and changed and 9 everything else. 10 And the flip side is nowadays is you get 11 too many people that took pictures and put them 12 up on Facebook. 13 THE WITNESS: 14 MR. SARAYA: Yeah. Well, that -- yeah. I had a case where an 15 agency asked for pictures in the case and two 16 weeks later they were on some guy's website out 17 of New York. 18 don't know where they went." 19 "I know I didn't leak them. I I called that agency for them to start 20 an internal on that, because that should have 21 never been released. 22 things. 23 24 So it's just one of those I appreciate people coming up and going, "Yeah, I did get one. You know, I just wanted to Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 57 1 make sure this is my point of view, this is what 2 I saw." 3 THE WITNESS: 4 MR. SARAYA: Right. When you saw that whole 5 caravan go by, about how many cars were in it at 6 that time? 7 8 9 THE WITNESS: On Euclid when they went by us? MR. SARAYA: Sure. From where you could 10 see it there, what do you think? 11 cars went past? 12 THE WITNESS: 13 MR. SARAYA: 14 About how many At least ten. Okay. And where were you at when you saw that, on Euclid you said? 15 THE WITNESS: 16 MR. SARAYA: Correct. Okay. Did you ever get the 17 chance to broadcast any radio traffic? 18 call out anything? 19 THE WITNESS: Did you I called out -- I remember 20 the female who was calling out the chase I found 21 out later was Sergeant Coleman said, "I'm not 22 sure what street we're on," and I said, "You're 23 westbound on Dibble approaching Addison." 24 That's what I said. Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 58 1 MR. D'ANGELO: 2 calling out the chase? 3 THE WITNESS: 4 MR. D'ANGELO: 5 THE WITNESS: 6 MR. D'ANGELO: 7 MR. SARAYA: 8 THE WITNESS: 9 MR. D'ANGELO: 10 11 12 Did you say she was Yes. Okay. Giving directions. Okay. Sergeant Coleman? Yes. She's Second District Vice. MR. SARAYA: Okay. I'm going to go see what's going on with that. 13 (Pause in proceedings.) 14 (End of videotaped interview.) 15 * * * 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 Erin O'Donnell 59 1 C E R T I F I C A T E 2 - - - 3 STATE OF OHIO : SS: 4 COUNTY OF FRANKLIN : 5 I, Jennifer L. Parish, Registered 6 Professional Reporter, do hereby certify that the 7 foregoing is a true, correct, and complete 8 transcription of the above-mentioned videotaped 9 interview of ERIN O'DONNELL to the best of my 10 ability. 11 12 DATED this 14th day of February, 2013. 13 14 15 16 _________________________ JENNIFER L. PARISH, RPR NOTARY PUBLIC-STATE OF OHIO 17 18 My Commission Expires: November 23, 2014. 19 20 21 22 23 24 Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481