Aw: - - . 'IS'Nbvenbor 1962 RECORD- Ir. Helms? Conversation with Luis Fernandez Rocha and Jo_ao lxria lasa of the DRE Rognrdihg their . A Organization' a Relationship. with the Agency Ann ?nial: 1500 hours, 13 Hovanbar 1962, 39135' Oftice- PERSOHB PRESENT: Hr.?e1ns, Luis _Rochn, Jose .Bancbo: (31133 a] I. Rocks stated he wanted to ao?ti?n?twd'thingu berets starting the conversation with Er. Helms: a. He was very sorry uncut ?ne difficulties which may have been caused by the ayburt-xiuni Eerald ?ewapaper incident. b. He ?enired to thank Er. Bolas for his ,h 5% "deference" and expressed his greatest cyyrociasion for heing given the opp?rtunity to diacugs their ?problqa with Hr. Reins. Hr. 89153 repliSd that he gully unaaigco?d and tccepted the expinnition about ihe newspaper article n?d he was happy t6 have the opportunity to di?cusa the Agenci's rdlagionship with Er. Rocha'n group. 14-00000 2. l?r. ?9113 stated he was fan1llar with the BER ultuet1on and deslred to work out a different (we: of oo1ng business. He realized there have been ups- and darmq"ln the roletionehip and that the Agency was 'i'not l11j inite_1h nb1d1ox of'lta co?aitneote, but that anny.of tho.ohanges were due to factors beyond the Agency's control. 30 continued there were no_dociaionn us yet aide 55 the regarding the future or-tho Castro problea. The prlnary items being considered at the present tins both in Kew York and were the rouoval of the missiles and bombers .from Cuba and on-slte loopection. Hr. Helms fully ro- al1zod that the dac1slone which may come. about at the con-_ clusion of these nogot1ntiono E111 not be decisions no- ceptablo tO'the DRE. If I time comes when too n33 feels their course of motion 13 no longer 3.8. policy, Hr. ?elnn vented to make this polo: clear,?the DRE should be frank and bonnet and so state it. He did not want to be devious about our reletionehipi and he wanted to develop the relationship "as a roaaonable collaboration?. 3. Hr. Helms informed noon: he was changing the Agencw contoct for the DES 1n kltul. He also stated the new con- tact would be :51; to come to Helms for any olirificnunu I $194 .L i 34700000 3mm . .3 -noedod regarding the roittionahlp. As {or 1 future ?operntIOth'yrogrng for tho DRE, Hr. Bolus stated.ha.pfoy s?ntly did ?ot-kno? what this would be. ,ue. nocnh'a?gced? 1 that 1n.all honesty he could not.?uarantoo that undo: 311.} 'clrcunatancos the DRE would be able to continuo'tho'fos' .lttlonahip, for a in v-3. pOlicy toinrd coexistence woulo differ from what the DRE believes is 3 out? to thoir country and he an the Seorotnry Gonoral to his non this would homo a break in our fslotiooehip no they felt they Qua: continue fighting Castro in any form 90331519. He did givo ?r.-Ho1u3.hia word of honor he would 1ororm his contaot or Er. 30135 when tho DRE felt they could no longer coopofato with the Agency becauso of the diffafonco in what they bellowed in and 0.3? policy. Rocha claimed they were anxioga to cooperate with the Agency, and it was foolish- to think that without Agency support they could continue ?thaxr present lava: of nativity.' as in tact statod that so to 90 par cent of thoir activity would coaoa 1: Agency :unda were disoontinuod. This would bo?auicidn, and according to Each: tuih he did not want provided ?'oatlafactory axrango- non: could be-resohod. . 4. Hr. L333 asked what they oouId expect regarding their future orientation ond plans; inochn chimed in and stated that this was can or tha.ditricu1tg9?rund?r . .lr' 1 -txw;4;ml . 14700000 they'had boon oporating; 1.9., not knowing that tho_plana tern or that too expected of then; to oddod that 15 order to direct his own organization, he oust be aware of Iltho diroction in which werwero moving before he could asks the proper decisions in his organization. Hr. Helms . answered ?to will tell you tho truth and what.tho score in when in know it ourselvea". as also warned than that whoa this information in divulged, it would ha in atrict- est coniidanco On basis and ant for the press or tho root or the exile community.? Er. Bolas added that.on this qu?otion' he wouid ho vary honaat with than and aithar tell them: a. I don?t know; I won't toll you; o. 1311 tell you} and give them the inroraation t: or roQuitod for . proper orientation. Er. Rains roitoratod that regarding this ty?o of intorastion they wont hoe? sipped up. Accord? ing to Salsa thajtzinga get around in t?e Cuban exile cou?nnity was, needless to any, a matter of some concern - to his. 6. Regarding tho new contact aging atntod he wanted to soioct a man ?no woald and could saintain the 'collaboration he had outlined, and wouid be helpful and I of assistance to the DRE. alno atotod that this cohtact VOuld to responsible to him ior the roistionship. Er. Rocha statod he Quoted to be the toint of oontoct in the {if Sf? a" M-i It?? :ll i . . 14-00000 -nnd in hin absence either ?annel Balvat or Jose Lass would be the alternate points ot- cont_nct. Er. -Helna stated there were eleaanta he would like to clarify: The System of kickbacks used by the DES. . . 4: . a Rocha V13 not Innillnr with the but after a shaft explanatidn exylainsd that the -d;d ?ak thagr manbara ta give a certain pofcontage' of their salary depending on what they can afford for a ganer&1 fund fram which tha organization pays for s?ch items a3 the Agency does not finance. One of these items #3 p?biication of "The Cuban Report", certain work 1a Latin America (not specified) for Much the Agency nun not pay. and n_ vex-y _1mportant itegfthe support of gqao of their people and flailing- doming cutie! Cuba;> claimed this was voluntary. b. . Finances-43:. ?31m degxrod Ito know 1: my ep!r'C3 it", kept sous systea or books, including?opa orponaen land aalar1es far-thair Latin Aaer;can oparations, and if so who th?lr books. Rocha answered tug; cud kaep books and added taey a min tine Mmtrained accouhtant In of this departasht of th?ir organizatiog. Hr. Reina 14-00000 1'55 . z" . 1 . suggested as finances are a technical and difficult matter to. keep c_loae tabs on, the Ramsey could, if. hochh so desired, help by providing a a set of books for ha ruliy n3roed.u1ih the nerit of tgis suggestion. 7. Hr. Balms again assured Rocha and Lass that with regard to the future, he would let then know as soon he himself kna? what it would be. Rocha asked how long" Hr. ?Helms thought this would he. Hr. Hula; stated this was of a hypothetical Question but satiagtod that the prasant meetings, conversations, and negqtiatiana would poaaibly take as long :5 a month. Er. Balsa stated he realized that nilitafy operations and possibly seas of theif propaganda would depend on our future course, but he wanted than to understand that there will arxiys b9 need for good, specific, information which the BER can contribute. According to Er. Be?aa, "He need it; you can contribute it; we?ll use it." Er. Reina added he realized there were ri?ka anolv?d in coilocting information, but ha. did not mt Rocha to giannd?ratmd my value of it. . Hr. 56135 3130 cautioned hacks and Lisa not to get inpatient aver what may appeir to be luck at of their iaiaraati??, but to give the Asuncy a chance to chock it out. 14-00000 8. Hr} Helms added there was one other point 01 utmost.importanca;and that vnajthat if in the future th? max daairod or wanted!? have a press conference qr to a??ear on "Let u=_kncv Shdut it"; Helga-etgted he didn?t un?t to the that; hands, and he.1ntohdnd #5 deal t?th than as ros?o?glhlo ?en,bu?, "Give us 9 fair I in. Balms did not in: the to mm are mma tg?h?oll than what t?ey can'or can not do, but he felt it is: in their Intaroat.to get our reaction on such aatt?rs. Hr. Helms added, "You, Hr. Ro?ba, are a responsible nan. I am a rcaponalble nan{ lat?a do business in a nature nann?r." Br. Rocha." runy agro?d. 9. Er. Rocha than intr?d?cod the subject of'"IEg Regort", the Bax newsletter. He said the savanna;- wan sent to the preaa, se?ntcra, congrassnen, the white Rouse, and other people in the v.3. Ha want?d to knaw how Er. new 1911; abmt tam: publication. Heine mint? ?o know if the ?gane? received the intall berets it was printed in the newsletter,? Ex. Rocha ingested that ail pdlitical and military infatuation was passed to tub Agency bef?ro 1; was printed in {he navalettor. Raina ad? sittad ha had 59% -hd the nesslefie; and'that in the mounting the BER cquld contl?ue it.' Once the matter 13 studied in more detail, Helms we any have acne if!? 1? . . U9. in?ll: . .. . NIT-.1. - ?341'; 34700000 hagga?tionnl we'nny wish in dincnsa.' Bo?hh frankly admitted tax: the ?83 felt they needed the newsletter in: their organization to be able to inxlnence public opinion in the 3 To his own curiosity, nr.aa1na asked it Koch: answered in the attirnativn. Seantor Eastingb figures were based 03 "The Cuban Inaport?. 10. Roch; than Askgd what tha_DR? aould .xpect re- ?gnr?ing axecutipn of military operations. Br. Relax in- . turned nacha that akenr?hey had a =?3135ry via: to suhnjt it. The Agency w?uld study 1t_and xive'than an nnhwer. $5133 sdd?d that if an answer was not torthcaaing in .i 7? in Einai on aither the 23rd or 24th 01 Oct ober, he felt it a r?asonabl? len?th 6: ?155, they akanld again.a?k tor the answer tram their contact. 'Er; ?3133 Assured Rocha of his personn1'1nt?reat in this relatiou?hip and he wanted Rocha to deal with big Aaangy in Sinai with this in n1nd,but he warnad Rocha that altgcugh this is case, he did not want sna'nas running and runs 09 their on matters they can 6531 with in 31331. Rocha understood. I 11.. As he (Rocha) ??nr?d thero may have been certain . misnn?erftandinxu regarding a request by the man in charge necesaary to get forth his positioa. Tag ?man in 2 1&4? Alum?, . may? -- . A MEI: 3 . . . . -. 5:15 anon} net with Each: on ago a! rho above dates fivo sen Iran the 3&3 including Roch; and Bnlvat to b8,- into Cub? for intelliganco pufposca. Can; amazing the unnalm Cuba was on full alert by" 23:15 date theretore greatty foducin? the chances of sucgeb? a! such an nttaapt,.29cha tried to'got further deta115 regarding the operati?naa but was only told they iquld' ?probably he need to diract Unable to get more details on that he considered a dangerona'a?d very risky mission ha daclinad the requeat.v no ?ddaa he found it difficult to understa?d the seriousness of such a request. 39 felt that he and aunt as leaders of their organization were not available for such algalona and th:t as hand of his organization, he did not feel he could send his men to their death on such a vaguely da- mission. Rocha continued that my hat: taxmd hm men that alt?ough the 533, as an arganxuatloa, would not take the responsibility for than in, the; were .Iree to go if they'deairad to go on their own, Er. Reina atatbd that, needless to 337, proposnla and rHQuazta from both parties had to be made in all aariouaness.' 12. Hr. Helms lashed if there In: anything else Rocha desired to discuss. Rochn_answere? negatively-and leave was taken. WM am: