! Premium content from before 2018 is now available for everyone!

IPID & Civilian Secretariat for Police progress reports on Police Portfolio
Committee 2014 recommendations
! This premium content has been made freely available

Police
29 January 2015
Chairperson: Mr F Beukman (ANC)

Share this page:

"

#

$

%

Meeting Summary
The Committee was briefed by IPID on their responses to the BRRR recommendations. The brieﬁng covered ﬁnancial, administrative,
investigations and information management and legal recommendations.
Members questioned IPID's responses to recent acts of police misconduct in the attacks on foreign shop owners in SA townships and if
the Directorate was planning any proactive investigations into these cases. The level of consultation and coordination between the
Directorate and the CSP was questioned, given the importance of their relationship for the purpose of SAPS oversight. Members were
concerned about the impact of under spending and possible corruption in IPID with investigators colluding with the very SAPS
members they were supposed to be investigating. Linked to this were questions about eﬀective deterrents for police members
involved in crime and corruption, as well as IPID being treated with contempt by SAPS. A key point of discussion was the level and
impact of vacancies, retention strategies for holding onto institutional memory. The IPID Executive Director was Member also asked a
question on the IPID report into Lt. Gen. Dramat.
The Civilian Secretariat for Police briefed the Committee on its responses to the 2014 BRRR recommendations. The thorough
presentation covered all the programmes of the Secretariat including ﬁnances and administration where spending patterns and
certain transactions were highlighted. Vacancies were explained in terms of particular posts, patterns and action plans. The role of
partnerships was discussed along with policy and research priorities. Relevant legislation was discussed as well as monitoring and
evaluation.
Members posed questions about budget patterns, links between stolen goods and second hand outlets, outstanding reports and the
use of innovative technology. Members were particularly concerned with vacancies, why these were occurring, why were staﬀ leaving
and the changing of post grading. Community Policing Forums were also discussed in terms of the need for a policy foundation,
resourcing, impact analysis and the kind of projects conducted.

Meeting report
IPID Progress Report on BRRR
Mr Robert McBride, IPID Executive Director, began by noting IPID appeared before the Committee on 22 October 2014 where the
Committee made recommendations for implementation by IPID. IPID sent detailed responses on 4 December 2014 and was invited to
present before the Committee a status report.
Looking at ﬁnancial recommendations, it was recommended IPID provide a copy of the ﬁnancial turnaround strategy of the
Department by end of November 2014. The strategy must include measures for IPID to spend its budget eﬀectively and eﬃciently. On
this matter, the overall spending performance for the third quarter period ending 31 December 2014 was 58% against the expected
spending target of 75% of the allocated budget. Although the spending trend was within the allocated budget, the Department had
performed below the expected spending target by 17%, excluding the commitments. The spending trends ranged from 22% to 60% in
programmes, with the economic classiﬁcation ranging from 45% of transfers and subsidies to 62% of compensation of employees.
With the review that was done during the adjustment budget on the compensation of employees, it was expected that even though
the actual expenditure was at 62%, the implementation of budgeted performance bonuses and pay progression for staﬀ members as

 well as expenditure related to all vacant positions that were recently ﬁlled will improve the spending in this item. Whilst with regards to
goods and services, the measures that were currently in place to procure all the required working resources, particularly for
investigators and also for those who had recently joined the Department, the expenditure will drastically move towards the
satisfactory level once all the procurement and delivery had been ﬁnalised. The process was underway to transfer the skills
development levy in line with the National Treasury directive. The delays were mainly caused by the issuing of an invoice and other
compliance documents by the receiving Department, however this had been addressed and the transfer will be implemented. Bulk
procurement had been planned mainly to address the shortage of investigative equipment which in some cases aﬀected the work of
investigators. A needs analysis had been performed to determine the required items. The remaining budget in machinery and
equipment and potential internal shifting from goods and services will address the funding of the needs. The 58% reported in
machinery and equipment was expected to improve signiﬁcantly taking into consideration the commitments. IPID was also
recommended to ﬁll the necessary vacancies relating to the internal audit and ﬁnancial environment without delay and report before
the end of the ﬁnancial year. On this recommendation, the internal audit candidate had been appointed and she will assume duty on
the 1st of February 2015. The Head of Asset Management and the Head of SCM were appointed on 1 September 2014 and 1 October
2014 respectively.
Within administration, IPID was recommended to undertake an impact study on the measurement of the community outreach
programmes conducted by the Department and provide a report before the end of the ﬁnancial year. Currently the impact of
community outreach events cannot be measured scientiﬁcally, but at each outreach, a template had been developed to try and
measure the reach of our events in terms of numbers and communities visited. An analysis of the information collected will be done
before the end of the ﬁnancial year. The Committee recommended that IPID should ﬁll all vacancies within the organisation as soon as
possible and that IPID should aim to have its vacancy rate below 10%. The vacancy rate had dropped from 23% during the second
quarter to 17.5% at the end of the third quarter. The process of ﬁlling all vacant posts was underway. All positions were advertised in
December 2014, the short listing had started. Vast improvement was expected in the next two months. The retention and recruitment
policy was being ﬁnalised and will be adapted at the next MANCO as soon as it done it will be sent to the Committee. The Committee
recommended that the Consultative Forum between IPID and the CSP must be held before the end of November 2014 and that a full
report be made available to the Committee about the outcomes of such meeting. The IPID and CSP had a joint Consultative Forum
Planning meeting on 25 November 2014, during the meeting the departments discussed the Terms of Reference (ToR) for the
Consultative Forum and the oﬃcial launch of the Forum, which was scheduled for 6 March 2015. The Minister will be invited to the
launch. The ToR will be signed during the oﬃcial launch ceremony. The Committee encouraged the Directorate to improve the gender
equity within its Senior Management Structure (SMS) and bring it to 50 % improved gender parity in line with government priorities
2014/15 ﬁnancial year. The Committee also recommended that the Directorate should ﬁnalise the Information and Communication
Plan as a matter of urgency. The percentage of people with disabilities had improved from 0.9% at the end of the second quarter to
1.5% at the end of the third quarter. This percentage was expected to improve before the end of the fourth quarter. The percentage of
women representation at SMS level improved from 39% at the end of the second quarter to 44% at the end of the third quarter. This
percentage was expected to improve in the next two months as more SMS positions were being ﬁlled. The ICT Governance Plan had
been signed oﬀ by the Executive Director and implementation has commenced.
Mr McBride turned to investigations and information management noting the Committee recommended that IPID tracked all
recommendations to SAPS and followed up on all such recommendations and made the responses available in quarterly reports to the
Committee. IPID will, as part of their quarterly reporting to the Committee, report on the responses received from SAPS for the
period. IPID, SAPS and the CSP had a Recommendation Workshop on 26 November 2014 in order to address the challenges
experienced by all parties and identiﬁed a Task Team consisting of members from the relevant stakeholders to meet and prepare the
presentation to the Committee on the Resolutions that were reached by all concerned. The Task team, consisted of IPID, SAPS, MPS
and the CSP and met on 11 December 2014 and 15 January 2015 to ﬁnalise deliberations. The Committee recommended that the IPID
must improve its performance on predetermined performance targets, especially within the Investigation and Information
Management Programme. The delivery on predetermined targets should be optimised to ensure eﬀective and eﬃcient delivery on
Government Priorities. A report was to be made to the Committee on how the IPID intended to improve on its predetermined
objectives by end of November 2014. An Executive Directive had been issued that dealt with targets setting backlogs, quality of
investigations and progress reports. IPID regulations were being reviewed, especially in regard to time frames. The Committee
recommended that the Directorate should make a copy of its Service Delivery Improvement Plan (SDIP) available to the Committee by
the end of November 2014. This SDIP was submitted to the Committee on 4 December 2014. The Committee recommended that the
Systemic Corruption Strategic document of the IPID should be ﬁnalised before the end of the ﬁnancial year. The Draft Document was
in the process of being ﬁnalised, which included reviewing the existing documents. The reviewed document will be adopted at the next
MANCO. The ﬁnal document will be forwarded to the Committee. The Committee oﬀered its full support to all eﬀorts made by the
Directorate to improve its achievement of performance targets, including the revision of the 90 days target for the conclusion of all
investigations.
With legal issues, the Committee recommended that all outstanding appointments to the Legal Services programme be made without
delay. IPID must report on such appointments before the end of the ﬁnancial year in March 2015. Interviews had been held for the two
Director vacancies and processes for appointment were currently underway. Interviews for the Chief Director: Legal Services were
scheduled for 23 January 2015. The Committee recommended that IPID attended SAPS disciplinary hearings and report thereon. IPID

 will attend some of the disciplinary hearings subject to available capacity.
Mr McBride concluded by stating that substantial progress was made in implementation of Committee recommendations. The
implementation of the ﬁnancial turnaround strategy was currently underway, Employment Equity targets were expected to improve
substantially by the end of the ﬁnancial year, consensus was reached with SAPS, MPS, CSP and IPID on IPID recommendations and
performance was expected to improve by the end of the ﬁnancial year.IPID will report on the ﬁnal Systemic Corruption Strategy by the
end of the ﬁnancial year as well as report on the Impact Analysis of Community Outreach events by the end of the ﬁnancial year. In
addition, the Consultative Forum Meeting was held in November 2014 with the launch to take place in March 2015.
Discussion
The Chairperson questioned IPID’s response to criminal behaviour and criminal acts in SAPS in light of recent attacks in Soweto,
Alexandria and other townships. Was there a possibility of a proactive check IPID could conduct with this and if not, why not? He
noted the lack of a consultative forum between IPID and the CSP aﬀected oversight over SAPS and aﬀected coordination and this
raised questions about the money spent on the bodies. Commitment was needed to get the process moving because when he listened
to SAPS, the service had moves in place.
Mr McBride noted the question was twofold: (1) what were the police doing and (2) what the community was doing or the perpetrators
of the looting and xenophobia highlighted in the instances given by the Chairperson. All police were au fait with what they were
supposed to do and the law they were meant to uphold. IPID had been targeting, over the last few months, to appeal to people to keep
all forms of protest within the law as all individuals had a legal responsibility if involved in engagements. This message was also
communicated in newspapers which had high circulation numbers like the Sun. Communities as well as the police were bound to act
within a certain way. In the cases of looting, there were societal issues involved and the police could not be the only ones
reprimanded.
The Chairperson asked for clarity that there was no investigation currently being run into these recent incidents. Was the corruption
around illegal ﬁrearms perhaps an issue of interest for IPID to follow up on? He wanted to get a sense of proactive investigations
instituted by IPID within the SAPS domain.
Mr McBride stated IPID resisted the temptation to handle matters collectively but chose to handle each oﬀence individually on its own
merits. IPID was reluctant to assume everyone was acting in concert. Allegations of corruption involving the ﬁrearms registry fell under
systemic corruption. IPID’s general motto was to work on cases with low volume, high value and maximum impact – this was how
investigations were prioritised. If a complaint on any misconduct or criminal activity, in the ﬁrearms registry for example, was received
it would be investigated but it might to receive the necessary attention some might perceive as immediate because IPID might be
caught up in what it viewed as a higher impact investigation.
Mr Shaik Emam was confused by the statement that there was under-spending which did not have an impact – there should be
consequences for under-spending. Were the consequences for SAPS members found guilty of corruption enough to deter any future
corrupt actions or as a deterrent for others? Was enough being done in terms of sentencing and the punishment metered out?
Mr McBride indicated that what was highlighted about under-spending was the trend detected in a ﬁnancial year along with the
necessary corrective measures. As executive director of IPID, he stated if there was one instance of corruption, the sentences and
sanctions were not enough.
Ms Kohler Barnard noted that when the Independent Complaints Directorate (ICD) existed, SAPS treated it with absolute contempt and
did not implement recommendations. Well over 80% of ICD recommendations were literally ignored even if some SAPS members were
guilty as sin. She wanted to hear that SAPS took the recommendation more seriously because she repeatedly heard of SAPS members
found guilty of various oﬀences but were simply moved to another station or province. She sought some input and reassurance that
things had improved. While IPID was present, she asked if the IPID report exonerated Lt. Gen. Dramat.
Mr McBride noticed an improvement in the cooperation with SAPS through the various workshops held. It was not only an attitude
problem which resulted in perception of contempt but it was also an issue of diﬀering interpretation which was sought to be cleared
up with the relevant stakeholders and partners. With the mysterious and Holy Grail IPID report, it unfortunately could not be realised
or commented on as it was still alive docket with the NPA. He could say IPID recommended prosecution for at least one member of the
DPCI. IPID did not want to hamper the decision making of the NPA nor create the impression such serious allegations were handled in
the absence of thoroughness. The investigation was conducted thoroughly, cut to the bone and he was quite proud of the
recommendations made. He awaited the outcome of the NPA. The Minister and National Commissioner were in possession of IPIDs
recommendations in terms of the disciplinary aspects.
Mr Mbhele asked about recently made appointments and the impending plans to ﬁll the vacancies. He was curious to know if the
majority of appointments were people from other places in the public sector or did they come from outside the civil service. What
measures and prospects were in place for long-term retention to build the capacity for institutional memory?

 Mr McBride said appointments were a mix of some people from SAPS and some from other aspects of the civil service. There was a
combination of youth and maturity with diﬀerent experiences which people bring. The major obstacle against retention was the level
of the department and in particular the provisions of section 23 which provided the conditions of service of inspectors in IPID to be on
par with that of SAPS. This was a key issue. IPID found itself recruiting and training people only for them to be poached by the
Department because the exact same work was oﬀered at a higher level. This was a major obstacle which the Committee could perhaps
assist with.
The Chairperson asked if the performance contracts for the new provincial heads were ﬁnalised.
Mr McBride said these contracts were all in place and had been concluded.
Mr Groenewald sought feedback on the availability and user friendliness for the public of compliant forms which were supposed to be
available at all police stations. He knew of a number of stations, Klerksdorp for example, where the forms were not available.
Mr McBride indicated there was a lot of common ground in terms of the ﬁgures between IPID and SAPS which the Committee would
be informed about at tomorrow’s meeting. The two entities tried to converge on most aspects.
Mr Matthews Sesoko, IPID Chief Director: Investigations, said the IPID Act was very clear with regard to complaints as encapsulated in
section 28. When a member of the public went to a police station to complain, the police were bound by law to register a case as
would occur with any other normal case. Once the case was opened, section 29 stated the police member was bound to ﬁll in a Form
Three for referral to IPID within 24 hours of the opening of the case. Even before the form was submitted, IPID was phoned and
informed of a case opened against a police member and the details of the case were relayed. This meant the member of the public
was not engaged in ﬁling in forms at police stations – this was the obligation of SAPS. If any member of the public found her/himself
trying to open a case of complaint against a police member and the member refused to assist, the member of the public could
complain directly to IPID. The IPID investigation would then not only look at the compliant of criminality against the SAPS member but
also that he/she refused to open a case on behalf of the member of the public. To reiterate, the form the Member referred to was not
for the public to complete but for the police member to submit.
Mr Groenewald understood this but thought that members of the public were obliged to place complaints in writing instead of directly
approaching IPID. He asked if these forms were available on the internet for submission by the public.
Mr Sesoko explained the form was meant for the SAPS members to ﬁll in to report the compliant referred to them by a member of the
public. There was a similar form which members of the public ﬁlled in when directly approaching IPID to register a case. In this way,
the member of the public was protected. This changed from the ICD to the new IPID regime were the police itself was used as a fodder
to refer complaints. The idea behind this was that police stations were more accessible than IPID oﬃces to report any criminality for
investigation.
Mr McBride added that in some instances, members of the public complained directly to IPID through a phone call or email. Very often
the complaints were not IPID mandate complaints but the Act compelled IPID to refer the complaints to the competent authority which
was done. A complaint was not disallowed because it came directly to the Executive Director or Head of Investigations, for example.
Every case was dealt with.
Mr Ramatlakane commended IPID on steps taken to fulﬁl vacancies. However, the Minister of Finance stated that unﬁlled vacancies
would be frozen or cut. Was IPID not fearful that some posts could no longer be ﬁlled in light of the timeframes presented? What was
the level of the vacant posts? How did the vacancies impact on the work of IPID?
Mr McBride highlighted IPID had to comply with the prescripts and processes around recruitment in the civil service and this
sometimes took time. At times suitable candidates were not found and the recruitment process had to start from the beginning. He
preferred this as opposed to being in position where he had to dictate who to appoint. It took time to allow the selection process to
run its course through appropriate advertisement, closing dates and capturing the data.
Ms Molebatsi asked how capacity problems were being addressed. Was there ever a situation where IPID’s investigators colluded with
SAPS members – the very members under investigation?
Mr McBride said systemic corruption was a complex issue and amounted to people basically using the system which was meant to
serve and protect to conduct crime or other misconducts. A number of players were needed to nail the perpetrators and this was not
always easy. IPID tried to look at joint operations with other agencies. He indicated there were no collusions between IPID investigators
and SAPS members being investigated. There was a system where if there were any queries around an investigator, an investigation
was instituted immediately which ran from the oﬃce of the Executive Director to ensure there were no doubts about the integrity of
the organisation. Attempts at pressure were experienced in one way or another but he could day without an iota of doubt, IPID had

 managed to repeal the attempted pressure. The word was out there that IPID could not be pressured.
The Chairperson concluded that progress was being made but it would be monitored. Most of the issues were being addressed, which
was a good sign, and IPID should continue in this fashion.
CSP Response on BRRR
Mr Hendrick Roberts, CSP Director: Finance, began by looking at the administration, speciﬁcally the ﬁnances, of the Secretariat,
highlighting the state of overall expenditure as of 30 September 2014, 31 December 2014 and 15 January 2015. Members were then
taken through expenditure patters. Few measures were implemented in this environment including monthly reporting by Chief
Directors on spending including reasons for over/under-spending, procurement and spending plans to be submitted monthly going
forward and funds were to be redistributed by the newly established Budget Committee to areas where spending can take place.
Special programmes were initiated like a Communication Strategy introducing CSP to public of SA and implementation of the
Secretariats own systems and Virtual Private Network was in an advanced stage which would increase spending. Financial Structures
and Accountability was in place, funds were transferred and expenditure claimed from SAPS was to be ﬁnalised in January 2015 and
the transfer of personnel was to happen in February 2015 for 1 March 2015. All BAS and PERSAL structures were in place to do salary
and other payments, most ﬁnancial policies, outstanding policies and delegations were to be signed-oﬀ before end of January 2015,
there would be fortnightly meetings between CSP and SAPS on progress of the transfer of functions and negotiations were ongoing
with Treasury to have LOGIS ready for implementation 1 March/1 April 2015.
With the possible transactions to go through before the end of the ﬁnancial year, once the following payments had gone through, a
projection of 99.7% will be achieved at the end of this ﬁnancial year. An order was generated for the full SITA service of over R17,0
million. This could boost goods and services expenditure if all expenditure realized. The Administration Programme was ready to start
functioning on its own separate from SAPS which would increase its spending even further as it would be responsible for generic
departmental related expenditure e.g. computer time for transversal systems, internet access, telephones (dependent on the
switchboard) and other related expenditure.
The compensation of Employees was at 58,4% spending overall and the main reason was the fact that the level 9 and 11 posts were
budgeted for on level 10 and 12 respectively. This will increase by R10,5 million (15.1%) with the retrospective payment of upgraded
posts in line with Resolution 1 of 2012. If the goods and services spending was as high as anticipated, all savings on the compensation
of employees will have to be "viremented" to goods and services.
Mr M Mashibini, CSP Chief Director: Corporate Services and Acting CFO, looked at the status report on vacancies from September to
December 2014. As of September 2014 there were 16 vacant posts, 9 posts ﬁlled as of the end of December 2014, 7 posts remaining
as of December 2014 and 4 transfers and services were terminated from November 2014. With the planned action on these vacancies,
1 post was advertised, 4 were due to be advertised on 23 January 2015, 2 posts were due for short listing before 31 January 2015 and 4
appointments were due but there was a delay because of competency test results and criminal checks. In total, there were 11 current
outstanding vacancies. The vacated posts included that of the CFO, which had been advertised, human resource management deputy
director after the individual had been transferred to another department and a senior registry clerk after the individual was
promotionally transferred to another department. Within the oﬃce of the secretary, the vacancies included a deputy DG, director:
fraud and anti-corruption and an administrative clerk. A post for deputy director for policy development also needed o be ﬁlled.
Ms Reneva Fourie, CSP Secretary, discussed the consultative forum noting a meeting was held between IPID and the Secretariat in
November 2014 and the terms of reference were drafted for collaboration but the launch of the consultative forum was postponed
from January 2015 to March 2015 due to other pressing priorities.
Another oﬃcial from the CSP presented on the partnerships unit looking at the resourcing/funding of Community Police Forums (CPFs)
noting the establishment of a Task Team to address CPF policy issues held three meetings. The CPF training committee was also
established for an emphasis on the representivity principle with broader stakeholder engagement with vulnerable groups including
women, youth, children. Also discussed was:
- The resourcing of CPFs
- Branding of CPFs
- Redeﬁning criteria for membership
- Developing Community Safety Plan/Programme of Action with cost
- Enhancing marketing through media and social platforms, malls, key entry points (airports) and creating and intensifying awareness.
- Advocate for active-citizen participation through izimbizos
- Training of CPFs
- Strengthening sector crime forums
- Joint support to CPFs by Provincial Departments of Safety, SAPS and Civilian Secretariat for Police at station/community level.
There were varying levels of established Community Safety Forums (CSFs) across municipalities in eight provinces, except in the Free
State. Financial commitment had been provided for by some Provincial Departments of Safety and some municipalities to support

 CSFs programmes and there were enhanced stakeholder engagement in CSF activities in line with policy. Some CSFs had developed
Community Safety Plans/Annual Plans in line with municipal Integrated Development Plans (IDP) which was an ongoing process, some
CSFs conducted projects and on a, quarterly basis, some CSFs held quarterly meetings.
With the eﬃcacy of SAPS’s national rural safety strategy, no research was conducted by the Civilian Secretariat for Police on the matter.
However, a summit on Rural Safety will be held at the end of March 2015 to address this issue. Thereafter, activities accounting for
expenditure were highlighted along with partnerships prioritised in the fourth quarter.
Ms B Omar, CSP Chief Director: Policy and Research, said the Draft White Paper on Security was to be advertised for public comment in
late February 2015, Gender Based Violence policies were ﬁnalised in the 3rd quarter and there would be commencing of the last round
of consultations in February 2015, the ﬁrearms project was to be ﬁnalised end of March 2015 while preparatory work on the joint
ﬁrearms workshop with the Committee was completed.
Ms Dawn Bell, CSP Chief Director: Legislation, explained additional staﬀ in the legislation programme would be appointed without
delay and all the outstanding legislation would be fast-tracked by the department. Additional staﬀ for the Unit will be done together
with Human Resources Unit in Corporate Services. Currently there was a new structure under consideration and it was awaiting
approval of the Department of Public Service and Administration (DPSA). The ﬁlling of new posts will followed after approval of the
new structure and the funding of posts. In terms of miscellaneous costs, there were outstanding accounts to Government Printers on
passed Acts assented to by the President and the compensation of board members of the DNA Oversight Ethics Board. Additional
expenditure will be drawn from the legislation unit with regards to litigation.
The legislation prioritised in the fourth quarter included the Firearms Control Amendment Bill, the Protection of Constitutional
Democracy against Terrorism Amendment Bill while various processes of the review of the SAPS Act was underway, pending the
outcomes of the White Paper Process.
Ms Millicent Kawuti, CSP Chief Director: Monitoring and Evaluation, stated under spending was due to slow progress in ISM
development and deployment but Phase I of the IMS would be ﬁnalised by March 2014. Within this programme of M&E, the activities
accounting for expenditure included an agreement reached with SAPS and SITA for SAPS will support the Secretariat until it was fully
operational with its own secure network supported by SITA. Fourth quarter priorities included the deployment of the ISM phase 1 and
phase 2 at the cost of R3.9 million which was an ongoing process. Police station oversight visits were to be conducted by March 2015,
continuous monitoring of the Domestic Violence Act (DVA), business process mapping on complaints management and policy dialogue
on police conduct, evaluation of the Fingerprints Act and the launch of the consultative Forum by 20 March 2015.
Discussion
Mr Shaik Emam noticed half of the CSP’s budget was spent in the ﬁrst nine months and there was talk the rest of the budget would be
spent in the last three months. In simple language this was called dumping and he was seriously concerned by this. He did not know if
other departments had the money to divert funds from one programme to another or if this was the correct thing to do. Was under
spending a pattern? When could the Committee be certain this pattern would stop? Was there any discussion with cell phone service
providers to play a more pivotal role in trying to combat cell phone theft? Added to this was the fact that most crimes were committed
through stolen cell phones. He wanted to know why there were vacancies and why were they being advertised so late into the ﬁnancial
year. Why were vacancies not addressed timeously? Were there challenges in recruiting people in this specialised ﬁeld?
Ms Fourie said it could appear as ﬁscal dumping but all the activities undertaken were in line with the APP and the priorities of the CSP.
This was just an expedition of matters already on the programme which were far behind. The biggest portion of the budget was
related to ICT infrastructure which was quite costly. She did not realise this expense and its impact on expenditure pattern. Some of
the blockages with spending were also because of the relationship between SAPS and the Secretariat but there had since been
signiﬁcant improvement and realisation that the CSP needed its independent ICT infrastructure. It was quite correct that money could
be moved willy-nilly from one programme to another but there was room for virements with Treasury approval – Treasury would not
approve the irresponsible movement of money or for the sake of ﬁscal dumping.
Ms Fourie explained the CSP had not explored the utilisation of cell phone technology to enhance the eﬀectiveness of the Secretariat.
It was an innovative idea and she believed the Committee had already picked up on the fact that the CSP was quite antiquated. The
Secretariat ﬁrst needed to establish its own infrastructural base which was being worked on with planned conclusion for the end of
March. The next plan was to digitise the monitoring system which was ﬁnally being dealt with after being delayed for over a year. Once
the basics were in place, like an independent oﬃce which was not broken into every second week and ICT system, the Secretariat
could start looking at more creative and innovative ways of using other technology to enhance the eﬀectiveness of the CSP.
Ms Fourie turned to vacancies and retention strategies, there was a gap and CSP was losing a lot of people. Members should also
understand that the Secretariat moved from being a sub-programme within SAPS to being an independent department. This meant
that, despite ICT systems and transferring of ﬁnances, within in three months, the CSP had to get all ﬁnancial policies in place, set up
a risk and audit committee and the general systems. All of these responsibilities meant that staﬀ was working almost 20 hours a day

 and this was very tiring for the CFO.
Mr Mbhele asked if the CFO was lost to another department within the public sector or government entirely. He wanted to understand
such systemic patterns.
Following on from the previous answer, the CFO did not move to another government department or even another job but just
decided that he was tired and needed a break. He was oﬀered other allowances for consideration because government allowed for a
month of unpaid leave or sabbatical, as he had been in the public service for a while, but he decided he was tired. There was
absolutely nothing the CSP could do to convince him to stay. He was a very good CFO with ethical practices and was of tremendous
support to the Secretariat. It was really sad to see him go.
Mr Twala was primarily interested in the role the CSP could play in assisting SAPS in overcoming its challenges. He saw the CSP had a
budget item for training detectives and asked if the Secretariat had seen in results from this item. Would the item be repeated in the
budget this ﬁnancial year? Policing was a science but people were not coming to grips with this reality and scientiﬁc tools were needed
to ﬁght crime.
Mr Ramatlakane sought clarity on the upgrading of posts and the retrospective budgetary implications in terms of the salary scale.
How long would it take to really ﬁnalise the issue of the CPF and its support? It seemed like a moving target. CPFs were critical for
community participation and engagement and needed to be underpinned by policy. This had been spoken about for a long time yet
nothing was being done.
Ms Fourie said the upgrading of posts was negotiated in 2012 but was never implemented. It was important that the decision was
activated to comply with the labour court and unions.
The matter of the CPFs was one of long standing engagement that appeared to be never ending. The policy issues were being looked
at as currently the CPF resources were allocated in SAPS but the CSP wanted a shift. This process would still take a while and as
mentioned, the White Paper for Police would be taken back to Cabinet. While the paperwork was going there was a critical need to
resource the CPFs with cell phones, vehicles and oﬃce space. Service providers were being engaged for assistance in this process but
it was not within the budget of the CSP. This engagement was quite far and positive so hopefully in the next Committee meeting there
would be something substantive to announce.
Ms Mmola questioned the transfer and termination of services – what were the reasons for the employees leaving?
Ms Molebatsi asked what the “pressing priorities” were which led to the postponement of the launch of the consultative forum. On
Committee oversight visits, it was found some CPFs received some funding from municipalities while others did not – why was there
no uniformity around this? Was there a linkage between the anti-stolen goods campaign and second hand goods outlets as many
stolen goods were then sold at outlets? She again raised the point that at the end of the month, the DNA legislation would commence
yet the board was not established which had to be done a month before the time – this had not yet happen. She sought more
information on this point.
Ms Fourie said the pressing priorities were largely around the acting secretary who was statutorily also the chief advisor to the Minister
of Police. At the time the acting secretary was assisting the Minister with the Lt. Gen. Dramat issue. Unfortunately the date of the
consultative forum had to be postponed but it would deﬁnitely take place.
There was a deﬁnitely synergy between stolen goods and second hand goods outlets. The CSP was working very closely with SAPS on
the matter with SAPS having launched a forum on the matter with a number of key role-players in government and the private sector
which met regularly.
The amendment act of the DNA legislation was operationalised on 31 January. The Minister signed the letters for the establishment of
the board but she was unable to say when the ﬁrst board meeting was going to be but the Committee could be provided with a report
in this regard.
Mr Maake asked what types of projects were conducted by CSFs as highlighted in the presentation. He asked if the CSP had an impact
analysis on all its awareness activities accounting for expenditure and whether this was used as a gauge of eﬀectiveness.
Mr Mashibini responded that before an impact analysis there needed to be an audit of all CSP implemented policies together with
partners. This had already begun with the CSF policy to assess if it was being complied with before an analysis could be done.
Functionality indictors had also been developed to assess the impact of programmes on communities at large. Most of the projects
undertaken by the CSFs cut across sector programmes undertaken by various departments at diﬀerent levels. Speciﬁcally, there had
been projects to assess the national crime prevention strategy, crime prevention environments, school safety, drugs, road safety
education, ward based support programmes and violence across vulnerable groups.

 The Chairperson noted there was still an outstanding report on the station oversights which should have been submitted to the
Committee in November – where was this report?
Ms Kawuti was of the impression that the report had been submitted but it would be done before end of business tomorrow.
The meeting was adjourned.

Share this page:

"

#

$

%