Case 1:17-cv-06404-BMC-SMG Document 244-5 Filed 02/21/19 Page 2 of 19 PageID #: 8099
HOWARD RUBIN - 10/25/2018

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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
EASTERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK
----------------------------------------------x
HILLARY LAWSON, KRISTINA HALLMAN,
STEPHANIE CALDWELL, MOIRA HATHAWAY,
MACEY SPEIGHT, ROSEMARIE PETERSON, and
LAUREN FULLER,

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Plaintiffs,

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- against -

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Case No.:
1:17-cv-06404 (BMC)

HOWARD RUBIN, JENNIFER POWERS,
and the DOE COMPANY,
Defendants.
----------------------------------------------x
225 Broadway
New York, NY 10007
October 25, 2018
10:11 a.m.

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VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION of HOWARD RUBIN, in

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the above-entitled action, held at the above time

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and place, pursuant to order, taken before ESTAMARIE

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CASTELLI-VELEZ, a shorthand reporter and Notary

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Public within and for the State of New York.

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Epiq Court Reporting Solutions - New York
1-800-325-3376
www.deposition.com

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HOWARD RUBIN - 10/25/2018

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A P P E A R A N C E S
BALESTRIERI FARIELLO
Attorneys for Plaintiffs
225 Broadway
New York, NY 10007
BY:
JOHN BALESTRIERE, ESQ.
john.balestriere@balestrierefariello.com
BRIAN L. GROSSMAN, ESQ.
brian.grossman@balestrierefariello.com

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DECHERT LLP
Attorneys for Howard Rubin
1095 Avenue of the Americas
New York, NY 10036-6797
BY:
EDWARD A. MCDONALD, ESQ.
edward.mcdonald@dechert.com
MICHAEL GILBERT, ESQ.
michael.gilbert@dechert.com
BENJAMIN E. ROSENBERG, ESQ.
benjamin.rosenberg@dechert.com

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SCHLAM STONE & DOLAN LLP
Attorneys for Jennifer Powers
26 Broadway
New York, NY 10004
BY:
JOLENE F. LaVIGNE-ALBERT, ESQ.
jlavignealbert@schlamstone.com
DOUGLAS E. GROVER, ESQ.
dgrover@schlamstone.com
NIALL O’MURCHADHA, ESQ.
niallomurchadha@schlamstone.com
ALSO PRESENT: Phil Glauberson, Videographer
Epiq Global
YIFAT V. SCHNUR, ESQ.

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HOWARD RUBIN - 10/25/2018

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S T I P U L A T I O N S

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IT IS HEREBY STIPULATED AND AGREED, by and

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among counsel for the respective parties hereto,

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that the filing, sealing and certification of the

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within deposition shall be and the same are hereby

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waived;

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IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND AGREED that

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all objections, except as to form of the question,

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shall be reserved to the time of the trial;
IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND AGREED that

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the within deposition may be signed before any

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Notary Public with the same force and effect as if

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signed and sworn to before the Court.

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*

*

*

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HOWARD RUBIN - 10/25/2018

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Page 85

can tell the dominant person to stop.

12:10:28

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Q

Did you have a standard safe word?

12:10:35

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A

I did.

12:10:38

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Q

What was it?

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A

I had two safe words.

First, was yellow

12:10:39

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light which meant it's okay, but please slow down.

12:10:44

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And the second was red light, which meant stop

12:10:48

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immediately.

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Q

12:10:56

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Do you remember using any other safe words

other than those two?

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A

Never.

12:10:59

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Q

Did you come up with those safe words

12:11:01

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yourself?
A

12:11:05
I don't recall when I ended up deciding on

the safe words.

12:11:14

Besides through use of a safe word, was

12:11:17

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there any other means by which a submissive could

12:11:23

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indicate to you discomfort or a choice to stop with

12:11:27

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the play?

12:11:33

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Q

I believe it was my decision.

12:11:09

A

I'm not sure what I -- can you -- can you

restate the question?
Q

You know how in wrestling you can tap out?

Do you know what I mean by that?

12:11:39
12:11:41
12:11:43
12:11:47

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A

I do.

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Q

Okay, so I mean, besides the use of safe

12:11:48

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HOWARD RUBIN - 10/25/2018

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A

Page 100

There was a cross in the room, and there

12:28:42

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were two different types of benches, and at some

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time in the past we had a canopy-type bed in that

12:29:04

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second room.

12:29:17

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Q

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Sir, you brought up the room.

mean by that?

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What do you

12:29:18

Withdrawn.

12:29:18

You talk about the room and the

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second bedroom.

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space?

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A

It is.

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Q

Okay, where was the second bedroom?

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A

In the apartment.

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Q

Which apartment?

12:29:29

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A

It was in the apartment I rented on

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First of all, is that the same

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.

12:29:36

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Q

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case, right?

12:29:42

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A

Excuse me?

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Q

You read the complaint you said?

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A

I did.

12:29:44

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Q

Do you remember a reference to the

12:29:45

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penthouse?

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A

I remember a reference to the penthouse.

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Q

Is that apartment where in the complaint

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You said you read the complaint in this

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is called the penthouse?

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Page 101

It wasn't a penthouse, but I assume that's

what you were referring to.

12:29:55
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Q

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A

.

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Q

And was there a name for the building?

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A

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Q

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What was the address of this apartment?

.

12:29:57

12:30:06

I'm not sure if you may have just said

this, but what floor is that?

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A

It was on the

floor.

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Q

Ms. Powers talked about the second

12:30:15

Is that the same second bedroom that

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bedroom.

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you're referencing right now, sir?

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A

Correct.

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Q

And it had a keypad to enter into; is that

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correct?
A

12:30:24
In order to get in to the second bedroom,
There were was

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you had to enter a code to get in.

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no lock to get out of the second bedroom even if the

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door was closed.

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Who at any time has known the code for

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Q

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that keypad?

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A

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I believe it was only myself and Jennifer

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Powers, but it was -- I believe it was just myself

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and Jennifer Powers.

12:31:08

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Q

Did you provide the code to anyone other

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A

Page 103

Have they ever been in that second

bedroom, yes.
Q

12:32:16
12:32:16

Prior to 2011, did you keep sex toys or

exotic toys anywhere other than the second bedroom?

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A

Yes.

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Q

Where?

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A

Jennifer Powers kept some sex toys, but

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not everything I'm talking about at her apartment,

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and I would use them when I met women at hotels.

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Q

How did you get them -- withdrawn.

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How did you get the toys to the
hotels from Mr. Powers' apartment?

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A

She transported them.

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Q

So, Ms. Powers would meet you at the

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hotel; is that correct?

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A

Sometimes, yes.

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Q

Or sometimes, if not meet you at the

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hotel, how would she transport them there for you to

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be able to get them?

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A

I'm not sure.

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Q

But they would simple be in the hotel

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room, is that what you mean?

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A

Yes.

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Q

Or maybe left with like a concierge or

12:33:14

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something like that for you to pick up, or no?

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Q

Did Ms. Powers get that for you?

12:48:28

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A

I don't recall.

12:48:31

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Q

Did you ever have the sybian before you

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had the second apartment?

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A

No.

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Q

When did you get the second apartment?

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A

2011, I believe.

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Q

Is there a reason why you got it in 2011

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as opposed to going to the hotels as you discussed

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you had been doing at one time?

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A

I don't understand your question.

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Q

At one time you were meeting women with

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whom you had BDSM play in hotels; is that correct?

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A

That is correct.

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Q

Is that how you started your BDSM play at

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hotels?

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A

Repeat your question.

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Q

Sure.

12:49:17

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Well, you engaged in BDSM play with

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, right?

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I did.

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Q

Was that only in hotels or in another

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location?

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A

That was in other locations.

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Q

Where?

12:49:31

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question.

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A

I'm not sure what they thought.

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Q

We discussed earlier how there were blank

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copies of the NDAs in the safe?

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A

Consent and release form, yes.

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Q

You also called them NDAs.

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MR. MCDONALD:

Objection.

Objection.

Is

there a question or a statement?

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MR. BALESTRIERE:

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That's a statement.

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I just ask counsel refrain

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MR. MCDONALD:

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from making statements.

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Q

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The -MR. MCDONALD:

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record?

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Q

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Did you get that on the

Thanks.

The -- did you show those forms to the --

to any of the women that came to the apartment?

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A

Yes.

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Q

When in relation to your meeting with the

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women?

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A

Prior to any physical sexual interaction.

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Q

Did you have a discussion with the women

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about the form?

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A

Yes.

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Q

Did you ask them to sign the forms?

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A

For the most part, Jennifer Powers was

15:04:57

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present when women were signing the forms and I

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wasn't.

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present.

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myself,

There were occasions when I was the one
For instance, for
, and

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6

15:05:15

there when

15:05:19

signed the release form.
Q

present when Ms.

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Ms. Powers that -- on that occasion?
A

15:05:23

How come it was you -- how come you were

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, it was

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signed the form and not

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15:05:37

I assume she was busy for some reason, but

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I don't have any specific recollection of why it was

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just myself and

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in that assistance.

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Q

When did you first have a form written up?

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A

In fall of 2014.

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Q

What prompted you to seek to get a form at

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that time?

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A

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A couple of things; one, is I had been

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, and I had also seen

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online a NDA form that Justin Bieber had used for

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women that visited him, and that gave me the idea

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that I needed or wanted an NDA release form to use

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for myself.

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Q

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The

,
?

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A

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Q

Page 185

.

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?

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A

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Q

15:08:14

.

15:08:22

How did you end up getting the forms?

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Like, who did you go to?

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NDA forms.

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2014, you had these experiences, you saw a form that

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Justin Bieber used.

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We're going back to the

15:08:23

You discussed how it was the fall of

Who did you hire to draft the

form for you?

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A

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15:08:30

15:08:41

The same attorney that I used to help me

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with the settlement agreements with the women and

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that's

15:08:49

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Q

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.
How did you get connected to Mr.

in the first place?

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MR. MCDONALD:

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15:08:57

Objection.

Grounds of

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relevance.

15:09:00

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A

15:09:00

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20

You know, I don't recall how I got his

name.

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Q

Did you have any kind of relationship with

15:09:03

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him, personal, professional before you hired him

15:09:04

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with regards to those women?

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A

I did not.

15:09:09

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Q

And you know he is a criminal defense

15:09:10

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lawyer, right?

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as I sit here, I can't recall under what

15:19:59

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circumstances.

15:20:03

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Q

Prior to the summer of 2017, so prior to

15:20:04

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about 15 months or so ago, what other legal

15:20:09

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services, if any, did Ms. Schnur provide to you?

15:20:12

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A

Restate the question.

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Q

Sure, I can ask it a different way.

15:20:19
That

15:20:20

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was about two years ago when you hired her for that

15:20:20

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immigration issue; is that correct?

15:20:25

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A

Estimating.

15:20:26

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Q

You had not met Ms. Schnur before the time

15:20:27

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that you had hired for that immigration issue; is

15:20:30

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that correct.

15:20:32

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A

That's correct.

15:20:33

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Q

After the that immigration issue, when was

15:20:33

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the next time that you hired Ms. Schnur or sought

15:20:35

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legal services from her?

15:20:41

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A

A few months after that.

15:20:44

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Q

For what did you seek her services?

15:20:47

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A

I --

15:20:49

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MR. GILBERT:

I'm going to caution the

15:20:50

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witness not to reveal any substantive

15:20:50

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discussions you had with counsel.

15:20:52

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You can answer this question.

15:20:53

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MR. BALESTRIERE:

15:20:56

I'm not -- I'm not

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Page 195

asking what you talked to her about, sir.

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THE WITNESS:

Okay.

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MR. BALESTRIERE:

I'm asking you what you

15:20:56
15:21:00
15:21:00

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hired her for.

15:21:00

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A

15:21:02

I wanted her to look over the consent

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agreement and see if there was any updates she

15:21:09

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thought would be worthwhile to make in the consent

15:21:14

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agreement.

15:21:18

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Q

So, around what time was this?

15:21:19

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A

You're -- meaning -- 2017 sometime.

15:21:24

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Q

So, it was actually last year sometime

15:21:29

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when you asked her to do this; is that correct?

15:21:31

13

A

That's my best estimate.

15:21:32

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Q

By that time I believe your testimony then

15:21:34

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is that you had been using the other forms for

15:21:35

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something like two years or a little more; is that

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correct?

15:21:40

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A

That's correct.

15:21:40

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Q

What prompted your desire to get anyone to

15:21:41

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21

update the forms?
A

Always thought a second set of eyes, legal

15:21:45
15:21:48

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eyes, on the form would've been worthwhile to have

15:21:53

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someone look at.

15:21:59

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25

Q

How come you didn't get that second set of

legal eyes prior to that time if you had been using

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Page 196

the form a couple years?
A

15:22:09

It's because I had just gotten introduced

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to Yifat Schnur on this different matter.

4

it was just easy to ask her to take a look at this

15:22:20

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form as opposed to trying to go out, find a new

15:22:26

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lawyer, kind of have them all come up to speed on

15:22:35

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what the form was, or something like that.

15:22:39

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gotten an introduction to her, so I asked her to

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take a look at it.

15:22:49

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Q

So, in --

15:22:12

I had

So, how long after she handled the

15:22:14

15:22:50

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immigration issue for you did you ask her to look at

15:22:52

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the forms?

15:22:55

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A

Few months maybe, I can't remember.

15:22:57

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Q

Did she --

15:22:59

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A

They were never changed by the way.

All

15:22:59

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the original forms were the same than the ones I had

15:23:01

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gotten from

15:23:08

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Q

19

.

You're paying for Ms. Schnur's fees in

this case, correct?

15:23:11
15:23:13

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A

In the case that you sued her from --

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Q

Yes.

15:23:19

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A

-- for and being sanctioned for?

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Q

Yes.

15:23:21

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A

Yes, I am.

15:23:21

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Q

And you're always paying for her to

15:23:22

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Ms. Powers with regards to the payment of her legal

15:24:09

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fees?

15:24:12

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A

No.

15:24:14

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Q

Do you have an oral agreement with Ms.

15:24:15

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Powers with regard to the payment of her legal fees?

15:24:17

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A

No.

15:24:21

7

Q

If there was a judgment entered against

15:24:22

8
9

Ms. Powers, have you agreed to pay for that?
A

I think she's going to

15:24:26

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11

15:24:25

15:24:28
Q

That wasn't my question.

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15:24:30

My question is, if there is a

15:24:31

13

judgment entered against her, have you agreed to pay

15:24:32

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for that judgment?

15:24:36

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A

No.

15:24:37

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Q

So, when was the first time that you had

15:24:50

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any contact at all with

?

15:24:52

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A

2009, 2010ish.

15:25:00

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Q

And you may have testified to this

15:25:04

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already, but how did you first learn about Ms.

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?

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A

Through

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Q

Did you go to Ms.

15:25:05
15:25:07

.

15:25:09
and ask to meet

15:25:13

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with a particular kind of person and she made the

15:25:16

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introduction?

15:25:22

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 Case 1:17-cv-06404-BMC-SMG Document 244-5 Filed 02/21/19 Page 17 of 19 PageID #:
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Page 249

D E C L A R A T I O N

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I hereby certify that having been first

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duly sworn to testify to the truth, I gave the above

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testimony.

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I FURTHER CERTIFY that the foregoing

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transcript is a true and correct transcript of the

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testimony given by me at the time and place

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specified hereinbefore.

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_________________________
HOWARD RUBIN

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Subscribed and sworn to before me

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this _____ day of ____________________, 20___.

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____________________________
NOTARY PUBLIC

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 Case 1:17-cv-06404-BMC-SMG Document 244-5 Filed 02/21/19 Page 18 of 19 PageID #:
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Page 250

I N D E X

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EXAMINATION BY

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MR. BALESTRIERE

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E X H I B I T S
EXHIBITS

DESCRIPTION

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PAGE

* * * NO EXHIBITS INTRODUCED * * *
*

*

*

*

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 Case 1:17-cv-06404-BMC-SMG Document 244-5 Filed 02/21/19 Page 19 of 19 PageID #:
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Page 251

C E R T I F I C A T E

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I, ESTAMARIE CASTELLI-VELEZ, a Shorthand

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Reporter and Notary Public within and for the State

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of New York, do hereby certify:

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THAT HOWARD RUBIN, the witness whose

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deposition is hereinbefore set forth, was duly sworn

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by me, and that such deposition is a true record of

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the testimony given by such witness.

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I further certify that I am not related to

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any of the parties to this action by blood or by

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marriage and that I am in no way interested in the

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outcome of this matter.

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__________________________
ESTAMARIE CASTELLI-VELEZ

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