Page 1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA CASE NO. 08-CIV-80119-MARRA/JOHNSON JANE DOE NO. 2, Plaintiff, -vs- VOLUME I OF II JEFFREY EPSTEIN, Defendant. ________________________________________/ Related cases: 08-80232, 08-08380, 08-80381, 08-80994 08-80993, 08-80811, 08-80893, 09-80469 09-80591, 09-80656, 09-80802, 09-81092 ________________________________________/ DEPOSITION OF DETECTIVE JOSEPH RECAREY Friday, March 19, 2010 9:37 - 5:12 p.m. 250 Australian Avenue South Suite 1500 West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Reported By: Cynthia Hopkins, RPR, FPR Notary Public, State of Florida Prose Court Reporting Job No.: 1509 (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 2 1 2 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE FIFTEENTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT IN AND FOR PALM BEACH COUNTY, FLORIDA CASE No.502008CA037319XXXXMB AB 3 B.B. 4 Plaintiff, 5 6 -vs- VOLUME I OF II 7 JEFFREY EPSTEIN AND SARAH KELLEN, 8 9 Defendants. ________________________________________/ 10 11 12 DEPOSITION OF DETECTIVE JOSEPH RECAREY 13 14 Friday, March 19, 2010 15 9:37 - 5:12 p.m. 16 250 Australian Avenue South Suite 1500 West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Reported By: Cynthia Hopkins, RPR, FPR Notary Public, State of Florida Prose Court Reporting Job No.: 1509 25 (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 3 1 2 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA 3 CASE NO. 10-80309 4 5 JANE DOE NO. 103, 6 Plaintiff, 7 -vs- VOLUME I OF II 8 JEFFREY EPSTEIN, 9 Defendant. ________________________________________/ 10 11 12 DEPOSITION OF DETECTIVE JOSEPH RECAREY 13 14 Friday, March 19, 2010 15 9:37 - 5:12 p.m. 16 250 Australian Avenue South Suite 1500 West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Reported By: Cynthia Hopkins, RPR, FPR Notary Public, State of Florida Prose Court Reporting Job No.: 1509 25 (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 4 1 APPEARANCES: 2 On behalf of the Plaintiffs, 3 SPENCER T. KUVIN, ESQUIRE LEOPOLD KUVIN 2925 PGA Boulevard Suite 200 Palm Beach Gardens, Florida Phone: 561.515.1400 4 5 .: 33410 6 7 On behalf of the Plaintiffs, Jane Doe: and 8 9 BRADLEY J. EDWARDS, ESQUIRE FARMER, JAFFE, WEISSING, EDWARDS FISTOS & LEHRMAN, P.L. 425 North Andrews Avenue Suite 2 Fort Lauderdale, Florida 33301 Phone: 954.524.2820 10 11 12 13 On behalf of Jane Does 1 through 8: 14 JESSICA ARBOUR, ESQUIRE MERMELSTEIN & HOROWITZ, P.A. 18205 Biscayne Boulevard Suite 2218 Miami, Florida 33160 Phone: 305.931.2200 E-mail: Ahorowitz@sexabuseattorney.com 15 16 17 18 On behalf of the Plaintiffs: Jane Does 101, 102 and 103: 19 20 21 22 23 KATHERINE W. EZELL, ESQUIRE PODHURST ORSECK 25 West Flagler Street Suite 800 Miami, Florida 33130 Phone: 305.358.2382 (Via telephone) 24 25 (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 5 1 Appearances continued... 2 On behalf of the Plaintiffs: 3 ISIDRO MANUEL GARCIA, ESQUIRE GARCIA, ELKINS & BOEHRINGER 224 Datura Avenue, Suite 900 West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Phone: 561.832.8033 4 5 6 and 7 TARA A. FINNIGAN, ESQUIRE TARA A. FINNIGAN, P.A. 224 Datura Street Suite 900 West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Phone: 561.835.8115 8 9 10 11 On behalf of the Defendant, Jeffrey Epstein: 12 MICHAEL PIKE, ESQUIRE BURMAN, CRITTON, LUTTIER & COLEMAN, LLP 303 Banyan Boulevard Suite 400 West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Phone: 561.842.2820 13 14 15 16 and 17 JACK ALAN GOLDBERGER, ESQUIRE ATTERBURY, GOLDBERGER & WEISS, P.A. 250 Australian Avenue South Suite 1400 West Palm Beach, Florida 33401-5012 Phone: 561.659.8300 18 19 20 21 and 22 23 24 MILTON G. WEINBERG, ESQUIRE LAW OFFICE OF MILTON G. WEINBERG 20 Park Plaza Suite 1000, Boston, Massachusetts 02116 Phone: 617.227.3700 25 (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 6 1 Appearances continued... 2 On behalf of the Witness: 3 JOANNE M. O'CONNOR, ESQUIRE JONES, FOSTER, JOHNSON & STUBBS, P.A. 505 South Flagler Drive, Suite 1100 West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Phone: 561.659.3000 4 5 6 7 Also Present: Jeffrey Epstein 8 _ 9 _ _ I N D E X 10 _ _ _ 11 12 EXAMINATION DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT 13 DETECTIVE JOSEPH RECAREY 14 15 MR. KUVIN BY MR. EDWARDS 9 242 16 17 _ 18 _ _ E X H I B I T S 19 _ _ _ 20 21 EXHIBIT DESCRIPTION PAGE 22 24 PLAINTIFF'S EX. 1 PROBABLE CAUSE AFFIDAVIT PLAINTIFF'S EX. 2 INCIDENT REPORT PLAINTIFF'S EX. 3 INCIDENT REPORT 25 PLAINTIFF'S EX. 4 23 (561) 832-7500 PROPERTY RECEIPTS PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 15 23 45 126 (561) 832-7506 Page 7 1 EXHIBITS CONTINUED... 2 EXHIBIT DESCRIPTION PAGE 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 PLAINTIFF'S EX. 4-A PROPERTY RECEIPT PLAINTIFF'S EX. 5 SUPPLEMENT FOR CHAIN OF CUSTODY LOG PLAINTIFF'S EX. 6 PAGE FROM MESSAGE PAD PLAINTIFF'S EX. 7 PHONE MESSAGE PLAINTIFF'S EX. 8 PHONE MESSAGE PLAINTIFF'S EX. 9 PHONE MESSAGE PLAINTIFF'S EX. 10 PHONE MESSAGE PLAINTIFF'S EX. 11 PHONE MESSAGE PLAINTIFF'S EX. 12 PHONE MESSAGE PLAINTIFF'S EX. 13 PHONE MESSAGE PLAINTIFF'S EX. 14 PHONE MESSAGE PLAINTIFF'S EX. 15 PHONE MESSAGE PLAINTIFF'S EX. 16 PHONE MESSAGE PLAINTIFF'S EX. 17 PHONE MESSAGE PLAINTIFF'S EX. 18 PHONE MESSAGE PLAINTIFF'S EX. 19 PHONE MESSAGE PLAINTIFF'S EX. 20 PHONE MESSAGE PLAINTIFF'S EX. 21 PHONE MESSAGE PLAINTIFF'S EX. 22 PHONE MESSAGE PLAINTIFF'S EX. 23 AND 24 PHOTOS PLAINTIFF'S EX. 25 PHONE MESSAGE PLAINTIFF'S EX. 26 MS. KELLEN'S CELLPHONE LOG PLAINTIFF'S EX. 27 LETTER DATED JULY 24, 2006 PLAINTIFF'S EX. 28 INTELLIGENCE REPORT DATED 11/28/04 127 151 196 204 205 208 209 210 212 213 215 215 217 219 220 221 222 223 225 227 230 240 241 243 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 8 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 MR. KUVIN: Just so we're clear with 3 respect to the deposition, I understand that 4 Mr. Epstein has three attorneys here today but 5 only one of them, pursuant to the Rules, is 6 going to be permitted to object to questions. 7 So I just wanted a designation as to which 8 attorney is going to be objecting to questions. 9 MR. PIKE: I will be objecting and 10 Mr. Weinberg will probably be asking questions. 11 I don't -- 12 MR. KUVIN: 13 MR. PIKE: 14 15 I have no problem -Do you have any objection with that? MR. KUVIN: I have absolutely no problem 16 if you want to switch it up as to who is 17 objecting and who is asking questions. 18 not a problem. 19 set of objections. 20 MR. PIKE: That's I just don't want to get three I will be the main on the 21 objections and Mr. Weinberg will be taking, 22 asking the questions. 23 24 25 (561) 832-7500 MR. GOLDBERGER: Do we have to tag each other? MR. KUVIN: No. I would prefer you PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 9 1 wouldn't talk at all, but we'll deal with that 2 later. 3 (A discussion was held off the 4 5 record.) Thereupon, 6 (DETECTIVE JOSEPH RECAREY) 7 Having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was 8 examined and testified as follows: 9 THE WITNESS: 10 11 I do. DIRECT EXAMINATION MR. KUVIN: All right. Just as a 12 stipulation on the record so that we have it 13 all clear, what we have discussed prior to 14 starting the deposition is, is that since we're 15 discussing girls which were under the age of 16 18, minors at the time of the incidents 17 involved in this case, we're going to be using 18 their names as previously agreed to in all the 19 other depositions in the case pursuant to court 20 order. 21 The names will be used in the 22 deposition, but they will not be used in 23 the official transcript. 24 key at the end of the transcript which 25 will be sealed and confidential only, for (561) 832-7500 There will be a PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 10 1 the eyes only of the attorneys involved in 2 this litigation. 3 Therefore, Detective Recarey should 4 feel free to discuss names with the 5 understanding that those names shall not 6 be made public outside the lawsuits that 7 are currently pending in both state and 8 federal court. 9 will avoid confusion and I just want to But that way hopefully it 10 make sure we get agreement from all 11 counsel sitting around the table that that 12 is the understanding. 13 clarification on that issue, please let us 14 know. 15 MR. PIKE: 16 MR. EDWARDS: 17 MR. GARCIA: Agreed. 18 MS. ARBOUR: Agreed. 19 MR. KUVIN: Katherine, agreed? 20 MS. EZELL: Yes, I am here. 21 MR. KUVIN: Did you hear my stipulation? 22 MS. EZELL: Yes. 23 MR. KUVIN: Do you agree with that? 24 MS. EZELL: Yes. 25 MR. KUVIN: Okay. (561) 832-7500 And if there is any Agreed. Agreed. I just wanted to make PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 11 1 it clear. 2 3 MS. EZELL: BY MR. KUVIN: 4 5 Thank you. Q. Why don't you give us your full name, if you would, please. 6 A. Joseph Recarey. 7 Q. Detective Recarey, could you please tell 8 us what you do for a living. 9 10 A. Police Department. 11 12 I am a detective with the Town of Palm Beach Q. How long have you been a detective for the Town of Palm Beach? 13 A. Approximately 15 years. 14 Q. And what is your exact title there for the 15 Town of Palm Beach? 16 A. Detective or a police officer. 17 Q. Do you work in a particular unit? 18 A. The -- currently assigned to the Organized 19 Crime/Vice and Narcotics. 20 21 Q. How long have you been assigned to that unit? 22 A. Approximately three years. 23 Q. Okay. 24 What did you do before that for the town? 25 (561) 832-7500 A. I was a general detective. PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 12 1 Q. All right. We're going to be talking to 2 you today about incidents that occurred back in 3 roughly 2005, '6, and '7. 4 time were you a detective? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Okay. All right. During that period of And let's just 7 summarize briefly what you're going to talk about 8 first and then we'll get down into the details of 9 it. 10 Did you have occasion to begin an 11 investigation with respect to a gentleman by the 12 name of Jeffrey Epstein? 13 A. Yes, I did. 14 Q. And when did that investigation begin 15 roughly? 16 17 A. That case was assigned to me on September, I believe, of 2005. 18 Q. And what were you assigned to investigate? 19 A. There was an allegation of an underaged female 20 that had went to the home of Mr. Epstein and was asked 21 to perform a massage at which time it became sexual in 22 nature and she was paid for her services. 23 24 25 (561) 832-7500 Q. All right. MR. PIKE: I'm going to object to form as speculation and hearsay and move to strike. PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 13 1 BY MR. KUVIN: 2 Q. With respect to the investigation that you 3 performed, how long roughly did that investigation 4 last? 5 looking at here from beginning to end? 6 helps you, I have the incident report. In other words what period of time are we And if it 7 A. It was approximately, I believe, a year. 8 Q. Okay. 9 Could you summarize for us generally, and like I said we'll get into details by 10 going through it, but generally what did you do 11 during the investigation? 12 MR. PIKE: Form. 13 THE WITNESS: Conducted interviews, 14 executed a search warrant, issued subpoenas, 15 continued with interviews. 16 BY MR. KUVIN: 17 18 Q. When you did the interviews, are we talking about any interviews with Mr. Epstein? 19 A. No, there was no interviews with Mr. Epstein. 20 Q. Did he ever agree to talk to you? 21 A. Originally when I was speaking with attorney 22 Guy Fronstin, there was a mention that he would be 23 available for an interview. 24 be. 25 (561) 832-7500 Q. However, that never came to Why not? PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 14 1 MR. PIKE: 2 THE WITNESS: 3 4 Same objection. It was discussed that he would not appear to, for any interview. BY MR. KUVIN: 5 Q. All right. Eventually a probable cause 6 affidavit was filled out in and around May of 2006; 7 is that correct? 8 A. Correct. 9 Q. And what was the basis of the probable 10 cause affidavit if you could summarize for it for 11 us? 12 investigation? What were -- what did you find after doing your 13 MR. PIKE: Form. 14 THE WITNESS: There were several victims 15 that had been interviewed based on their age, 16 the acts that occurred at the residence. 17 was enough probable cause to request a warrant 18 for Mr. Epstein. 19 BY MR. KUVIN: 20 21 There Q. All right. And for those that might not understand, a warrant means what? 22 23 A. An arrest warrant. MR. KUVIN: Okay. I would like to show 24 you what we'll mark as Exhibit 1. 25 you give me a sheet. (561) 832-7500 Why don't PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 15 1 (Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 1 was marked for 2 3 identification.) BY MR. KUVIN: 4 Q. All right. What we have marked as 5 Exhibit 1, is that the probable cause affidavit that 6 you filled out with respect to Mr. Epstein? 7 A. Correct. 8 Q. And does your signature appear on each and 9 every page of this probable cause affidavit? 10 A. Correct. 11 Q. And is that your signature at the bottom 12 left corner? 13 A. Yes, bottom right. 14 Q. Bottom right. 15 I apologize. All right. Let's go to, if we could, 16 Page 22 of 22. And the last paragraph, could you 17 explain to us the conclusions in the probable cause 18 affidavit and exactly what Mr. Epstein was being 19 arrested for at the time? 20 MR. PIKE: Form. 21 THE WITNESS: Based on the interviews 22 conducted, it was determined that Mr. Epstein, 23 who at the time of the incident was 24 approximately 51 years of age, did have vaginal 25 intercourse either with his penis or digitally (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 16 1 with either 2 minors at the time of the incidents that 3 occurred. 4 5 MR. PIKE: who were Move to strike. BY MR. KUVIN: 6 Q. Did you feel there was sufficient possible 7 cause to charge Mr. Epstein at that time and if so 8 with what? 9 MR. PIKE: 10 Form. THE WITNESS: Yes, I did, and it was with 11 four counts of Unlawful Sexual Activity with a 12 Minor, and one count of Lewd and Lascivious 13 Molestation. 14 BY MR. KUVIN: 15 Q. All right. The lewd and lascivious 16 molestation charge, could you explain that a little 17 more as well? 18 MR. PIKE: Form. 19 THE WITNESS: The victim, that was the 20 initial victim that came forward, it was a 21 14-year-old minor at the time of the incident. 22 She had gone to the house. 23 initial report that was taken by Officer Pagan. 24 14 at the time. 25 massage. (561) 832-7500 This was the Was brought over to perform a The incident turned into a, sexual in PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 17 1 nature, and it was at the time she was paid for 2 her services and left. 3 4 MR. PIKE: BY MR. KUVIN: 5 6 Move to strike. Q. Okay. Now, this person to learn that her name at the time was 7 A. Yes, I did. 8 Q. All right. 9 did you come And according to the information you had, she was how old at the time 10 that she came over to Mr. Epstein's house for the 11 sexual contact? 12 MR. PIKE: 13 THE WITNESS: 14 Form. Fourteen. BY MR. KUVIN: 15 Q. All right. Was she the youngest that you 16 were able to determine came to Mr. Epstein's home 17 during your investigation? 18 A. 19 20 Correct. MR. PIKE: Form. BY MR. KUVIN: 21 Q. All right. With respect to the others, 22 just so we have it on the record and we're clear, 23 would have been whom? 24 A. Jane Doe No. 103. 25 Q. And (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 18 1 A. Jane Doe No. 2. 2 MR. PIKE: I am going to object to form 3 through these series of questions so we don't 4 have to keep repeating with regard to the 5 information. 6 MR. KUVIN: 7 Yeah, well, I want to make sure I understand what is the form objection. 8 MR. PIKE: 9 Your, your questions are relating back to opinion and hearsay evidence 10 and the investigation. 11 ahead and I will put it on the record. 12 ahead. 13 MR. KUVIN: So, actually just go All right. Go I just wanted to 14 make sure I knew because I wanted to fix them 15 if there was something that I could do to fix 16 them. 17 MR. PIKE: 18 you want to start the depo over. 19 MR. KUVIN: 20 MR. PIKE: 21 No, but I can start from now. Let's go. BY MR. KUVIN: 22 23 I don't think you can unless Q. All right. you identify who During your investigation did was, and if so who? 24 MR. PIKE: 25 THE WITNESS: (561) 832-7500 Form. Yes, I did. I identified PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 19 1 2 BY MR. KUVIN: 3 Q. 4 A. And 5 6 is who? MR. PIKE: Same objection. BY MR. KUVIN: 7 Q. Okay. Now, these girls that you 8 identified in your probable cause affidavit here at 9 the conclusion, did you find that all of these girls 10 were under the age of 18 at the time they went to 11 Mr. Epstein's home? 12 MR. PIKE: 13 THE WITNESS: 14 Form. Correct. BY MR. KUVIN: 15 Q. And how old were they? 16 A. They were approximately 16, 15, 16 and/or up 17 to 17 years of age. 18 MR. PIKE: 19 Form. BY MR. KUVIN: 20 Q. Okay. All right. Do you recall how old 21 was? 22 A. I believe she was 16. 23 Q. After filling out and signing the probably 24 cause affidavit, could you explain to us what 25 occurred next? (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 20 1 A. So many things occurred with the State 2 Attorney's Office. Originally it was determined that it 3 was going to be a grand jury. 4 Q. Okay. 5 A. And then the case was going to be presented to 6 the grand jury. That was later retracted and they 7 wanted a probable cause affidavit. 8 Q. Okay. 9 A. I submitted the probable cause affidavit. 10 Shortly thereafter I was told we're going back to the 11 grand jury. 12 Q. Okay. Well, let me ask you this: After 13 the probable cause affidavit was issued, did you 14 institute the search of the home at that point or 15 did you institute the search of the home before the 16 PC affidavit was -- 17 A. Prior, prior to the PC affidavit. 18 Q. Okay. All right. Let's go back. Why 19 don't you give us, if you would, briefly your 20 training and experience as an officer. 21 with, you know, where you went to the academy and 22 where you started working and then kind of work us 23 through to when you got your job at Palm Beach 24 County or Palm Beach. 25 (561) 832-7500 A. Just start I went to the police academy back in 1990 -- PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 21 1 Q. Okay. 2 A. -- down here in Palm Beach County. I was 3 hired by Palm Beach in 1991 where I did three years on 4 the, as a patrol officer. 5 Q. Okay. 6 A. I was transferred then to the detective 7 bureau. 8 Q. Roughly when? 9 A. '94. 10 Q. Okay. 11 A. From the detective bureau, I went to the 12 Organized Crime/Vice and Narcotics Unit where I spent 13 about five, six years. 14 Q. When did you get into that unit roughly? 15 A. I would say '96, '95, '96. 16 Q. Okay. 17 A. About roughly five to six years. 18 Q. All right. 19 A. Back to the detective bureau. 20 Q. So we're looking at like 2000 and 2001? 21 A. Correct. 22 Q. All right. 23 A. I was there for up to 2006, I believe, 2000 -- 24 And you spent how long there? Then where did you go? 2006. 25 (561) 832-7500 Q. Okay. And then in 2006? PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 22 1 A. They created another, a unit from the 2 Organized Crime/Vice and Narcotics Unit. Made it 3 special investigations. 4 it was renamed back to the Organized Crime/Vice and 5 Narcotics. Went over to there where I'm -- 6 Q. Okay. 7 A. That's basically what we would operate on. 8 Q. Gotcha. 9 since then to the present day? 10 A. Correct. 11 Q. Okay. 12 A. I worked for the State Attorney's Office as a process server for five years. 15 16 Have you ever worked in any other department? 13 14 And you've been in that unit Q. Okay. And that was before going to the academy in 1990? 17 A. Correct. 18 Q. Okay. 19 A. Correct. 20 Q. Any secondary schooling, college? 21 A. College credits and specialized training with 22 High school graduate? the police department. 23 Q. Okay. 24 A. No. 25 Q. Okay. (561) 832-7500 Did you get an AA in college or no? Where did you get your college PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 23 1 credits? 2 A. PBCC. 3 Q. Are you from here locally, Palm Beach? 4 A. No. 5 Q. Where from? 6 A. New York City. 7 Q. When did you come down here? 8 A. 1980. 9 Q. Okay. All right. Let's walk through kind 10 of chronologically what occurred in this particular 11 case. 12 give you the incident report. 13 am going to ask you questions. And just so that it's easier for you, let me 14 What I will do is I If you need to refresh your 15 recollection at any point with the incident report, 16 just let us know that you're using it to refresh 17 your recollection which is fine. 18 make sure that we can distinguish between what you 19 may recall independently versus what you may be 20 using to refresh your recollection. 21 (Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 2 was marked for 22 23 identification.) BY MR. KUVIN: 24 25 I just want to Q. All right. I'm going to give what you we have marked as Exhibit 2 as the Palm Beach Police (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 24 1 Department Incident Report which appears to be 2 numbered, thankfully, and consists of 87 pages plus 3 one. 4 numbered pages and then a single page again numbered 5 as Page 1, just for the record. It looks like there is 87 consecutively 6 7 All right. First of all, do you recognize what we have marked as Exhibit 2? 8 A. Yes, I do. 9 Q. And could you describe for us what that A. It is the Palm Beach Police Department's 10 is? 11 12 Incident Report. 13 Q. All right. When this investigation first 14 began, were your, were you the first one that was 15 contacted regarding potential allegations against 16 Mr. Epstein? 17 MR. PIKE: 18 THE WITNESS: 19 Form. No, I was not. BY MR. KUVIN: 20 Q. Who was the first one that was actually 21 contacted, and could you explain to us if you would 22 how they were contacted? 23 A. It was Officer Michelle Pagan. 24 Q. Okay. 25 And do you know as you sit here today under what circumstances she was contacted? (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 25 1 A. I believe it was telephonically, by telephone. 2 Q. Okay. 3 Was she contacted by or her parents, do you remember? 4 MR. PIKE: 5 THE WITNESS: 6 7 10 I totally believe it was the BY MR. KUVIN: Q. Okay. When Ms. Pagan took down that information, how soon after were you actually brought into the investigation? 11 12 Form. step-mother that called her. 8 9 herself A. I believe she took the report in March, and I took, I took possession of the case in September. 13 Q. Do you know why the break in time between 14 March and September when you actually get it? 15 other words do you know why you got the case some 16 months later? 17 A. She was transferred to patrol. 18 Q. Okay. 19 In So, Ms. Pagan was originally investigating this case -- 20 A. Correct. 21 Q. -- until she got transferred to patrol? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Did her transfer to patrol have anything 24 to do with this case? 25 (561) 832-7500 A. No. PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 26 1 Q. Okay. When you take over the 2 investigation in September -- and just so we're 3 clear we're talking about September of 2005? 4 A. Correct. 5 Q. When you take over that case, do you take 6 any particular action to bring yourself up to speed 7 on what's going on? 8 9 A. I reviewed her reports and listened to the interviews and what she had already evidentiary-wise. 10 Q. Okay. Let's go to, if you would, Page 22 11 of the incident report. Just so we can make sure 12 that we have an accurate chronology here, it appears 13 right in the middle of the page we have got the date 14 of September 8, 2005. 15 the case notes of this file as the case will be 16 turned over to Detective Recarey. And it states: I reviewed Do you see that? 17 A. Yes, I do. 18 Q. Was that roughly the date that the 19 investigation was turned over to you? 20 21 A. It was turned over officially I think the 19th. 22 23 No. Q. Okay. And we see that in Narrative 2 at the bottom of the same page? 24 A. Correct. 25 Q. All right. (561) 832-7500 And the first entry there says PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 27 1 on September 19, 2005, you met with Officer Pagan 2 and received the information pertaining to the case? 3 A. Correct. 4 Q. All right. When you received that 5 information, is it safe to assume that you reviewed 6 the investigation materials that Michelle Pagan had 7 collected up until that date? 8 A. Yes, I believe so. 9 Q. Okay. At this point in time do you know 10 how many potential victims there were of 11 Mr. Epstein? 12 MR. PIKE: 13 THE WITNESS: 14 15 Form. No, we didn't know the extent of how many victims at that point. BY MR. KUVIN: 16 Q. All right. We know that 's 17 step-mother had called in and there is an 18 investigation regarding her. 19 minors at that point that had come into the 20 investigation? 21 MR. PIKE: 22 THE WITNESS: 23 Form. We knew of a girl by name of Haley Robson. 24 MR. KUVIN: 25 THE WITNESS: (561) 832-7500 Were there any other Okay. That her name had come up in PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 28 1 the investigation early on -- 2 MR. KUVIN: 3 THE WITNESS: 4 Okay. -- as bringing Sage. BY MR. KUVIN: 5 Q. Okay. Any other minors that you can 6 recall came up at that point; in other words the 7 point between when Ms. Pagan starts the 8 investigation until when you take it over? 9 MR. PIKE: 10 11 THE WITNESS: Q. Okay. Where is Ms. Pagan today? Is she here locally? 14 15 No, not that I can recall. BY MR. KUVIN: 12 13 Object to the form. A. Yes, she's still with the police department. She rides the bicycle. 16 Q. Okay. If you would, can you turn to 17 Page 17 for me of the Incident Report. Towards the 18 bottom, third paragraph from the bottom, it 19 references a cross-reference of Epstein's residence. 20 Do you see that? 21 A. Uh-huh. 22 Q. What was the residence that you found for 23 Mr. Epstein, the address, the physical address? 24 A. 358 El Brillo. 25 Q. Palm Beach Island? (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 29 1 A. Correct. 2 Q. Okay. And it states there that a 3 cross-reference of that address revealed certain 4 affiliated names. 5 Could you give us those names? MR. PIKE: 6 I am sorry, Counsel, what paragraph? 7 MR. KUVIN: 8 Third from the bottom starting with the cross-reference. 9 MR. PIKE: Appreciate it. 10 MR. KUVIN: 11 THE WITNESS: 12 13 Sure. Nadia Marcinkova, Mark Epstein, and Ghislaine Maxwell. BY MR. KUVIN: 14 Q. Okay. How is it those affiliated names 15 came up? 16 looking at to reference those names? 17 18 A. If she cross-referenced it, she used the Town of Palm Beach CAD system. 19 20 In other words what database were you Q. And just for those that may not know, what is the CAD system? 21 A. The CAD system is basically if someone is, is 22 we had a 911 hangup or an alarm call or any kind of 23 incident that accrues within the Town of Palm Beach, 24 when the officer responds and they encounter someone at 25 the home, whatever the reason, whether it be a false (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 30 1 alarm, 911 hangup, you get their information. 2 information gets put into the CAD system as to who, who 3 the officer encountered on that property. 4 Q. Okay. That Is it regular practice for you as a 5 detective when taking over a file from another 6 detective to review all the materials that they have 7 put together? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. All right. And are these records 10 contained within the Palm Beach Police Department? 11 In other words are these the regular business 12 records of the department -- 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. -- the information contained within the 15 investigation that Ms. Pagan had put together? 16 17 A. what you're asking. 18 19 It is no longer in the department if that's Q. No, I mean at the time, when you take over sometime in September. 20 A. Yes, correct. 21 Q. Okay. 22 A. It would be. 23 Q. All the information is contained within 24 It would be. the Town of Palm Beach investigative unit? 25 (561) 832-7500 A. Correct. PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 31 1 Q. I understand. 2 public at that point. 3 investigation private? Now, it's obviously not You're keeping the 4 A. Correct. 5 Q. But nonetheless all those documents that 6 you would have reviewed from Ms. Pagan would have 7 been business records of the police department at 8 the time? 9 A. Correct. 10 Q. I understand. Now, when you reviewed this 11 information from Detective Pagan, could you walk us 12 through exactly what 13 her? had explained occurred to 14 MR. PIKE: Form. 15 THE WITNESS: She was taken to 16 Mr. Epstein's house for the purpose of making 17 money, providing a massage. 18 MR. KUVIN: 19 THE WITNESS: Okay. Once she got there, she was 20 taken upstairs to the bedroom area. 21 time what my understanding was is they were 22 taken to the bedroom area through the stairwell 23 where Mr. Epstein was awaiting to do a massage. 24 MR. KUVIN: 25 THE WITNESS: (561) 832-7500 At that Okay. The massage began. PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. At some (561) 832-7506 Page 32 1 point during the massage Mr. Epstein -- this is 2 all off recollection by the way. 3 MR. KUVIN: If you want to use the 4 incident report, what we're referring to would 5 be on Pages 11 through roughly 15 of the 6 incident report -- 7 MR. PIKE: 8 MR. KUVIN: 9 Just --- if you need it to help refresh your recollection. 10 MR. PIKE: Just so the record is clear, 11 we're still on the one question. 12 form objection on the same answer. 13 THE WITNESS: There is a It was -- I haven't found 14 exactly where she goes into the story, however 15 I know -- 16 MR. KUVIN: 17 THE WITNESS: I think it's at Page 14. -- where there was some 18 touching involved, and Mr. Epstein then, I 19 believe, introduced a massager. 20 BY MR. KUVIN: 21 Q. A vibrator? 22 A. Correct. 23 Q. Okay. Was she asked to take her clothes 24 off according to what she told the police 25 department? (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 33 1 MR. PIKE: 2 THE WITNESS: 3 Form. BY MR. KUVIN: 4 Q. And how old was she at the time? 5 MR. PIKE: 6 THE WITNESS: 7 10 Form. Q. Was there an investigation as to how actually was taken to the home? In other words did you determine who took her there? 11 A. Correct. 12 Q. Who was that? 13 A. Haley Robson. 14 15 Fourteen. BY MR. KUVIN: 8 9 Yes. MR. PIKE: Form. BY MR. KUVIN: 16 Q. Did Ms. Pagan interview Ms. Robson? 17 A. No, she did not. 18 Q. Not at this point? 19 A. No. 20 Q. Did you ultimately interview Ms. Robson? 21 A. Yes, I did. 22 Q. With respect to what explained, I 23 would like to walk through this if I could for a 24 minute. 25 (561) 832-7500 MR. PIKE: What page are you on? PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 34 1 2 MR. KUVIN: BY MR. KUVIN: 3 4 Fourteen. Q. Was there another woman that she described in the home at Epstein's house? 5 MR. PIKE: Form. 6 THE WITNESS: Yes. She described a tall 7 blonde female which I believe was Nadia 8 Marcinkova. 9 BY MR. KUVIN: 10 Q. Okay. 11 12 And what did Marcinkova do -- MR. PIKE: Form. BY MR. KUVIN: 13 Q. -- as far as what she described to you? 14 MR. PIKE: 15 THE WITNESS: 16 Same objection. If I can just -- I am going to -- 17 MR. KUVIN: 18 THE WITNESS: 19 Nadia was the one who took her upstairs, I believe. 20 21 Yeah, take a look. MR. PIKE: Form. BY MR. KUVIN: 22 Q. Upstairs in Mr. Epstein's house? 23 MR. PIKE: Same objection. 24 THE WITNESS: Yes. 25 (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 35 1 BY MR. KUVIN: 2 3 Q. The same home that we described before on El Brillo Way? 4 MR. PIKE: 5 THE WITNESS: 6 Form. BY MR. KUVIN: 7 Q. 8 this. 9 room? All right. Let's walk through some of When she gets upstairs, the woman leaves the 10 MR. PIKE: 11 THE WITNESS: 12 Form. Correct. BY MR. KUVIN: 13 14 Q. Okay. At that point does she tell you that Mr. Epstein comes in? 15 MR. PIKE: 16 THE WITNESS: 17 18 Form. BY MR. KUVIN: Q. Pagan, yes? 20 A. Yes. 21 MR. PIKE: Same objection. BY MR. KUVIN: 23 24 This is what she's informing Officer Pagan. 19 22 Yes. Q. All right. And what does Mr. Epstein do at that point according to what 25 (561) 832-7500 MR. PIKE: explained? Form. PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 36 1 THE WITNESS: 2 3 off her clothes. BY MR. KUVIN: 4 Q. Okay. And she's 14 at this point? 5 MR. PIKE: 6 THE WITNESS: 7 10 Form. Q. What did explain was his demeanor, Mr. Epstein's demeanor with respect to asking her to take off her clothes? 11 MR. PIKE: 12 THE WITNESS: 13 14 Form. BY MR. KUVIN: Q. What was he dressed in? 16 MR. PIKE: 17 THE WITNESS: Q. In a towel. Could you explain to us exactly what Mr. Epstein supposedly instructed her to do -- 21 22 Form. BY MR. KUVIN: 19 20 I believe he was stern when he instructed her to remove her clothing. 15 18 Correct. BY MR. KUVIN: 8 9 He told her to remove, take MR. PIKE: Form. BY MR. KUVIN: 23 Q. -- and then what he did? 24 MR. PIKE: 25 THE WITNESS: (561) 832-7500 Same objection. He instructed her to provide PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 37 1 a massage pointing to the specific lotion for 2 her to use. 3 As she was providing the massage, he asked her 4 to get onto his back. 5 along his back and advised that her exposed 6 buttocks was touching his bare buttocks. 7 8 He laid on the table face down. MR. PIKE: Form, move to strike. BY MR. KUVIN: 9 Q. What happened next? 10 MR. PIKE: 11 THE WITNESS: 12 13 Form. He turned over onto his back and was masturbating. BY MR. KUVIN: 14 15 Q. Okay. Did he masturbate to conclusion according to her? 16 MR. PIKE: 17 THE WITNESS: 18 19 Form. It doesn't state in the report. BY MR. KUVIN: 20 21 She straddled herself Q. Okay. Did describe what her reaction was to what was occurring at this point? 22 MR. KUVIN: 23 THE WITNESS: 24 Form. She was disgusted by his actions but didn't say anything. 25 (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 38 1 BY MR. KUVIN: 2 3 Q. Okay. Was Ms. able to describe the home? 4 MR. PIKE: Form. 5 THE WITNESS: Correct, she did. She 6 described Epstein's house as a two-story pink 7 house with a Cadillac Escalade parked in the 8 driveway. 9 BY MR. KUVIN: 10 11 Q. Was she able to describe the inside of his home? 12 MR. PIKE: 13 THE WITNESS: 14 Form. Yes. BY MR. KUVIN: 15 Q. Did your investigation uncover any reason 16 why a 14-year-old girl, other than what she 17 described for you, may know what the inside of 18 Mr. Epstein's home looked like? 19 MR. PIKE: 20 THE WITNESS: 21 Form. I'm sorry? BY MR. KUVIN: 22 Q. Did your investigation uncover any legal 23 reason why a 14-year-old girl like 24 what's inside of Mr. Epstein's home looked like 25 other than what she had described to you? (561) 832-7500 would know PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 39 1 MR. PIKE: 2 THE WITNESS: 3 Form. No. BY MR. KUVIN: 4 Q. If we go onto Page 15 of the incident 5 report, does she describe fairly -- well, you 6 explain to me what detail she described with respect 7 to the interior of the home. 8 it vague? 9 Was How would you describe it? MR. PIKE: 10 Was it detailed? Form and speculative. THE WITNESS: When we executed the search 11 warrant, items that she had mentioned, the 12 photos lining up the stairwell were there, the 13 pink and green sofa was there, and there were 14 several photographs of naked women that was 15 there as well. 16 BY MR. KUVIN: 17 Q. So, essentially everything she described 18 in her initial report to Detective Pagan was 19 verified when you did the search warrant videotape? 20 A. 21 22 MR. PIKE: Form. BY MR. KUVIN: 23 24 Correct. Q. All right. Did describe whether or not she was able to see Mr. Epstein's penis? 25 (561) 832-7500 MR. PIKE: Form. PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 40 1 2 THE WITNESS: Yes. BY MR. KUVIN: 3 Q. How did she describe it? 4 A. She stated that his, quote, wee-wee was very 5 tiny. 6 Q. 7 Okay. MR. PIKE: Form, move to strike. Just so 8 the record is clear, Detective Recarey is 9 reading from a document that has been marked as 10 Exhibit -- 11 MR. KUVIN: 12 MR. PIKE: 13 Two. Exhibit 2. BY MR. KUVIN: 14 Q. Just so we can clarify for the record, 15 Detective, as a detective for the department, do you 16 regularly rely upon reports that are taken down by 17 other detectives in the department? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Do you regularly trust other officers to 20 take down certain reports with respect to an 21 investigation? 22 A. Correct. 23 Q. And is that part of the regular practice 24 of an investigating detective, in other words to 25 refer to reports that are taken down by other (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 41 1 officers during the, during an investigation? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Okay. 4 his wee-wee. Just so we're clear, she referenced Was she referring to his penis? 5 MR. PIKE: 6 THE WITNESS: 7 Yes. BY MR. KUVIN: 8 9 Form. Q. Okay. Was there any legal or lawful reason that you could uncover during your 10 investigation why may know the size, shape, or 11 description of Mr. Epstein's penis being a 12 14-year-old girl? 13 MR. PIKE: 14 THE WITNESS: 15 Form. No. BY MR. KUVIN: 16 Q. All right. And did describe to 17 Detective Pagan whether or not she received money 18 for this event? 19 A. 20 21 Yes, she did. MR. PIKE: Form. BY MR. KUVIN: 22 Q. During an investigation like this when 23 interviewing a 14-year-old, 15-year-old, any let's 24 say girl that's under the age of 18, a minor, as 25 part of your investigation, do you have to make a (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 42 1 determination as to whether you believe a witness is 2 telling the truth or not? 3 MR. PIKE: Form. 4 THE WITNESS: Obviously when you're 5 conducting an interview, you know, based on the 6 information gathered, you would want to verify 7 any information that she provides. 8 you would. 9 So, yes, BY MR. KUVIN: 10 Q. Okay. Is what you are telling me that 11 when you have a witness talk to you about an event, 12 you always try to verify what they have said? 13 A. Correct. 14 Q. Okay. Is it also part of your job as a 15 detective in your training to interview a witness 16 and make an internal decision whether you think they 17 are being truthful or not truthful based upon how 18 they tell the story, the detail in which they tell 19 it, and their reaction and other factors involved? 20 A. Obviously when she's providing, when anyone is 21 providing information and all the information gathered 22 has to be verified -- 23 Q. Okay. 24 A. -- you know, in any interview regarding any 25 case. (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 43 1 Q. All right. Before you were involved, did 2 the department or did Officer Pagan do a trash pull 3 of the home? 4 MR. PIKE: 5 THE WITNESS: 6 I believe so, yes. BY MR. KUVIN: 7 8 Form. Q. And this first trash pull occurred before you got involved in the investigation? 9 A. Correct. 10 Q. All right. Let's look at Page 19. I want 11 to clarify just a couple of things that we have gone 12 over in some other depositions. 13 14 MR. PIKE: Form, move to strike. BY MR. KUVIN: 15 Q. First of all, there was a subpoena request 16 for a T-Mobile wireless phone number. 17 that? 18 A. Correct. 19 Q. All right. Do you see That number that's there in 20 the incident report, did you determine what number 21 that referenced? 22 number referenced, was it Robson, Ms. 23 Mr. Epstein, Ms. Kellen, Ms. Marcinkova -- In other words what person that 24 MR. PIKE: 25 MR. KUVIN: (561) 832-7500 Form. -- or someone else? PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 44 1 THE WITNESS: 2 3 whose number that was assigned to. BY MR. KUVIN: 4 5 I cannot recall at this time Q. Okay. There was apparently a purple item pulled from the trash pull. 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. All right. Do you see that? I am trying to find, just so 8 that I can tie it into the trash pull itself, if we 9 look at Pages 1 through 19, where is it that the 10 trash pull occurs? 11 MR. PIKE: 12 MR. KUVIN: Does she note it here? 13 Just so that I can have a timeline. 14 15 Form. MR. PIKE: Same objection. BY MR. KUVIN: 16 Q. I may have it in the other document, 17 actually. Let me ask it this way: 18 looking at that investigative report when that trash 19 pull occurred, initially, the first one? 20 MR. PIKE: 21 THE WITNESS: Can you tell by Form. No, I am looking for -- it 22 might have been after based -- it's how the 23 reports are inputted. 24 25 (561) 832-7500 MR. KUVIN: second. Here it is. Hang on one Let's do this; this may help. PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. As part (561) 832-7506 Page 45 1 of a subpoena to the Palm Beach Police 2 Department, we received a copy of e-mails that 3 existed with respect to this case and 4 Mr. Epstein. 5 What I would like to mark is what 6 we'll call Exhibit 3 I think we're up to 7 now. 8 figure out where. 9 I was trying to Hang on a second. BY MR. KUVIN: 10 11 I knew I saw it. Q. This is a e-mail from Nickie Altomaro. Who was that? 12 A. 13 She was the detective bureau secretary. MR. KUVIN: Okay. And it's indicated it 14 looks like October 17, 2005. 15 it quickly to opposing counsel. 16 recent production by Palm Beach. 17 It was in the (Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 3 was marked for 18 19 Let me just show identification.) BY MR. KUVIN: 20 Q. Do you mind if I look over your shoulder 21 while he looks at it. 22 we have marked as Exhibit 3. 23 little bit. 24 this is? 25 (561) 832-7500 A. And I want to give you what This might help a Can you describe for us generally what This, it appears to be Officer Pagan's PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 46 1 incident report which was inputted by Nickie Altomaro. 2 Q. Okay. Can you describe for us the process 3 by which the information is generally taken down at 4 the department back in 2005, and how it makes it 5 into the incident report? 6 A. Nickie Altomaro was the detective bureau 7 secretary. As we update the incident report, you type 8 up your report. 9 system. 10 Q. Okay. 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Gotcha. 13 A. And we would type up the report, forward it to And at this time we were using a DOS DOS as opposed to Windows based? 14 her either in Word Document or WordPerfect. 15 convert the document into a DOS format and input it into 16 the system. 17 Q. All right. If we turn to -- it looks like 18 these are in, somewhat in date order. 19 3/21/05 which is on the eighth page. 20 the date of 3/21/05? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Okay. 23 She would If we turn to Did you get to Was surveillance instituted on Mr. Epstein's home at this time? 24 A. Correct. 25 Q. All right. (561) 832-7500 So we're talking March 21st, PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 47 1 2005, surveillance began at his home on El Brillo 2 Way; is that correct? 3 MR. PIKE: 4 THE WITNESS: 5 Correct. BY MR. KUVIN: 6 7 Form. Q. And on that exact date of 3/21/05 what else took place? 8 MR. PIKE: Form. 9 THE WITNESS: Officer Pagan requested and 10 Detective Lee initiated trash pulls from 358 11 El Brillo. 12 BY MR. KUVIN: 13 14 Q. is? 15 Can you describe to us what a trash pull What do you do? A. Well, you inform the supervisor of sanitation 16 that you're interested in pulling your target's trash, 17 you find the location, who in turn informs the driver 18 that you're going to be pulling the trash. 19 Q. The driver of the trash truck? 20 A. The driver the trash truck. 21 Q. Gotcha. 22 A. Once that's done, we coordinate with the trash 23 truck driver to ensure that the well is empty prior to 24 him going to your target location. 25 him to the target location. (561) 832-7500 He goes -- we follow PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 48 1 2 Q. The well being the back of the trash truck? 3 A. Correct. 4 Q. Before it goes into the main bin? 5 A. Correct. 6 Q. Gotcha. 7 A. Once that area is, we're confirmed that it is Okay. 8 empty, they go onto the property, remove the trash and 9 place it into the well. We then follow it to an 10 unspecified location where we actually remove the 11 contents from the well. 12 Q. All right. Let's walk through now, 13 continue turning to the date of 4/1/05 through 14 4/3/05. 15 down. You should be an additional three pages 16 A. 4/1. 17 Q. Yes, sir. 18 All right. through 4/3/05, what was occurring on those dates? 19 MR. PIKE: 20 THE WITNESS: 21 22 Form. She met with Detective Krauel of the police department. BY MR. KUVIN: 23 24 If we look at 4/1 Q. Was there any additional surveillance conducted? 25 (561) 832-7500 A. Yes. PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 49 1 2 Q. Okay. And what were the dates of the surveillance? 3 A. It appears she met with members of the B.S.F. 4 Unit, Burglary Strike Force is what it was, for the 5 purpose of conducting surveillance at 358 El Brillo. 6 7 Q. Okay. Now, this surveillance, was this kept by the department? 8 A. Correct. 9 Q. Still held by the department? 10 A. Not 100 percent certain on that. 11 It might have gone over to the FBI. 12 Q. Okay. We'll talk about that when we get 13 to that point. But nonetheless before the FBI came 14 in, all of this was kept by the department? 15 A. Correct. 16 Q. By your department. Okay. All right. 17 we look at the bottom of the page, what's the date 18 that the trash pull was actually done? If 19 MR. PIKE: 20 THE WITNESS: 21 Form. On the bottom of the page? BY MR. KUVIN: 22 Q. Yeah, the one we were talking about. 23 A. I'm still looking at Exhibit 3. 24 Q. Yep. 25 A. So, it would be -- (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 50 1 2 Q. Top of the page it starts "at times appear." 3 A. Correct. 4 Q. All the way at the bottom of the page, 5 last line. 6 7 A. conducted by Detective Lee. 8 9 On April 5th, 2005, the trash pull was Q. All right. And what did Detective Lee find? 10 MR. PIKE: 11 THE WITNESS: 12 Form. It was a message from Haley indicating, and redacted, at 11:00 a.m. or 11. 13 MR. KUVIN: 14 THE WITNESS: 15 16 Okay. The following information was obtained from the trash from 358 El Brillo. BY MR. KUVIN: 17 Q. What additional messages were retrieved? 18 A. One from Jean Luc, David, Sarah Kellen. There 19 was some redacted Alexis, redacted, Brit, Rion., 20 Joanna H., E.W., redacted, redacted, Nicole, Sherry, 21 Haley, a message for a receipt dated 4/4 at 1:05, 22 Joanne S. with a phone number, and she's looking to 23 speak to you. 24 25 Q. Okay. Let's talk about this for a minute. The redacting, do you know why those are redacted at (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 51 1 this point? 2 MR. PIKE: 3 THE WITNESS: 4 Form. Yes, I do. BY MR. KUVIN: 5 Q. Why? 6 A. It indicates either the names or the initials 7 of the victims. 8 Q. 9 MR. PIKE: 10 11 The victims, what age were the victims? Form. THE WITNESS: As young as 14 to 16. BY MR. KUVIN: 12 Q. Okay. So if we see a redacted portion 13 here, can we safely assume that that references one 14 of the victims? 15 MR. PIKE: 16 THE WITNESS: 17 Form. Correct. BY MR. KUVIN: 18 Q. Is there any other redactions that would 19 take place other than the names of the potential 20 victims? 21 MR. PIKE: 22 THE WITNESS: 23 Not that I am aware of. BY MR. KUVIN: 24 25 Form. Q. All right. had started with. (561) 832-7500 There was a reference that I I just wanted to see the timing PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 52 1 of it. But if we go back to Page 19, keep both of 2 those documents available in case we need to refer 3 to them. 4 But if we go back to Page 19 of the 5 incident report, do you see towards the bottom of 6 the page it references a purple item retrieved from 7 the trash pull? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Okay. 10 This particular purple item, did Officer Pagan attempt to identify what it was? 11 MR. PIKE: 12 THE WITNESS: 13 Form. Yes, she did. BY MR. KUVIN: 14 Q. And at the point she attempted to identify 15 it, what did she identify it as at this point back 16 in April of '05? 17 MR. PIKE: 18 THE WITNESS: 19 20 She believed it was an anal wand of some sort. BY MR. KUVIN: 21 22 Form. Q. And how did that identification take place? 23 24 A. I believe she researched it on the Internet. MR. PIKE: Form. 25 (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 53 1 BY MR. KUVIN: 2 Q. This particular jelly anal wand, this 3 purple item, was it later identified as something 4 different? 5 A. Yes, it was. 6 Q. Okay. Can you describe that for us? 7 MR. PIKE: Form. 8 THE WITNESS: 9 of the search warrant. It was during the execution During the search we 10 found that it, it was a handle of a, of a 11 utensil used to eat. 12 (Ms. Finnigan entered the room.) 13 MR. KUVIN: 14 MR. GARCIA: We added a person. There is a summary judgment 15 that I have to leave later. 16 office. 17 18 19 MR. PIKE: For the record she works with Sid, with Sid Garcia's office. MR. GARCIA: She shares a space with me. 20 That's close enough. 21 MR. KUVIN: 22 23 24 25 (561) 832-7500 She works with our Let's continue with the incident report. MR. PIKE: Actually, no, let's not. Is she listed as counsel? MR. GARCIA: No. She appeared at PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 54 1 Mr. Epstein's deposition before. 2 3 MR. KUVIN: Has she filed a notice of appearance? 4 MR. GARCIA: 5 MR. KUVIN: No. I am going to ask her to, ask 6 to excuse her. She has not filed a notice of 7 appearance. 8 this case and there are various orders that are 9 binding on various lawyers in this case. There are confidential issues in 10 Sid, this is one of the very few 11 depositions that you have actually been in 12 attendance at, and if she has not filed a 13 notice of appearance, if she has not 14 signed any pleadings in this case, I am 15 going to ask that she leave otherwise the 16 deposition is not going to go forward. 17 MR. GARCIA: 18 MR. PIKE: 19 On what authority? She is not counsel. right to be here. 20 MR. GARCIA: She's assisting me with this 21 case. 22 deposition which you did not attend. 23 She has no She appeared at your own client's MR. PIKE: That's all well and good but 24 the fact is is that she does not have a notice 25 of appearance here in this. (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 55 1 MR. GARCIA: 2 MR. PIKE: 3 MR. KUVIN: 4 MR. PIKE: 5 She will file one today. We're not going to go forward. I am not stopping. The fact is these are confidential communications. 6 MR. GARCIA: 7 Why don't you file a notice of appearance and come back. 8 MS. FINNIGAN: 9 MR. GARCIA: 10 That will resolve it. (Ms. Finnigan left the deposition 11 12 Okay. room.) BY MR. KUVIN: 13 Q. All right. 14 Let's continue on. Going to Page 20 of the incident 15 report, at some point did you gain information with 16 respect to Jet Aviation, and if so could you 17 describe what information was obtained by Officer 18 Pagan regarding Jet Aviation? 19 MR. PIKE: 20 THE WITNESS: Form. I believe it was a trash 21 pull where an itinerary was found within the 22 trash pull. 23 BY MR. KUVIN: 24 25 Q. Were there additional names found within the itinerary of pilots? (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 56 1 MR. PIKE: Form. 2 THE WITNESS: Yes. Captain David Rodgers, 3 Co-captain Larry Visoski, flight engineer, 4 Larry Morrison. 5 BY MR. KUVIN: 6 Q. Okay. In this trash pull were there also 7 messages left by some of the potential victims in 8 this case? 9 A. Correct. 10 Q. All those victims being under the age of 11 18? 12 MR. PIKE: 13 THE WITNESS: 14 Form, and form to the last one. Correct. BY MR. KUVIN: 15 Q. And that's why they are blacked out? 16 MR. PIKE: 17 THE WITNESS: 18 Form. Correct. BY MR. KUVIN: 19 Q. All right. Let's turn to the next page of 20 the investigation. 21 go to the part where you start here which would be 22 Page 22. 23 MR. PIKE: 24 MR. KUVIN: 25 MR. PIKE: Actually, you know what, let's (561) 832-7500 Thank you. For what? Identifying the page. PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 57 1 MR. KUVIN: 2 like and I want to take it back. 3 4 MR. PIKE: No. BY MR. KUVIN: 5 6 I thought I did something you Q. All right. What is the Burglary Strike Force? 7 A. It is now a disbanded unit. 8 unit of plain clothed officers. 9 being struck with burglaries. However, it was a At that time we were 10 Q. Okay. 11 A. It was a unit created just to combat and 12 locate people that were on properties, stuff like that. 13 Q. Okay. 14 A. No. 15 Q. Okay. 16 Were you part of that strike force? What occurred with the Burglary Strike Force once you got involved with the case? 17 MR. PIKE: 18 it. 19 Form. Actually I will withdraw That question is fine. THE WITNESS: The Burglary Strike Force 20 had been conducting surveillance at the home of 21 Mr. Epstein at 358 El Brillo. 22 BY MR. KUVIN: 23 24 Q. Okay. Which officer was assigned to monitor Mr. Epstein's home? 25 (561) 832-7500 A. Officer Munyan. PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 58 1 Q. Any others? 2 A. Sergeant Sorge and Officer Minot. 3 Q. Are they still with the department? 4 A. Officer Munyan is no longer with the 5 department. 6 Officer Minot is still with the police department. 7 Q. Sergeant Sorge has since retired. All right. And what did the surveillance 8 find on that particular date? 9 MR. PIKE: 10 And Form. THE WITNESS: I had asked them to input 11 that into their report so there should be 12 supplements by them as to what was, what they 13 observed. 14 BY MR. KUVIN: 15 16 Q. Well, if you look at the summary in the incident report, what is reported there? 17 MR. PIKE: Form. 18 THE WITNESS: They filled out an attached, 19 a surveillance log which was a placed in the 20 attachment file. 21 MR. KUVIN: 22 THE WITNESS: Okay. Mr. Epstein had left for the 23 airport on his jet which was over at, I 24 believe, Jet Aviation. 25 (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 59 1 BY MR. KUVIN: 2 Q. Okay. Was it determined during your part 3 of the investigation that the jet was, in fact, 4 Mr. Epstein's jet? 5 MR. PIKE: 6 THE WITNESS: 7 Correct. BY MR. KUVIN: 8 9 Form. Q. All right. Let's get to your next report which looks like Narrative 5 on Page 24. We come 10 down the first paragraph. 11 documenting an additional trash pull that took 12 place? 13 MR. PIKE: 14 THE WITNESS: 15 Form. Correct. BY MR. KUVIN: 16 17 It looks like this is Q. Were you a part of the trash pull on September 21 of 2005? 18 A. No, I was not. 19 Q. Who was? 20 A. Sergeant Szarszewski. 21 Q. All right. 22 that came out of this trash pull? 23 A. Correct. 24 Q. All right. 25 Did you review the evidence Halfway down the paragraph, there was a note that was apparently pulled on this (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 60 1 trash pull; is that correct? 2 A. Correct. 3 Q. Can you explain to us what that note was? 4 5 MR. PIKE: BY MR. KUVIN: 6 7 Form. Q. Just so I'm clear, you saw the note yourself, correct? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Okay. 10 A. This notes contained names of different girls 11 with different times. 12 13 Can you explain what it was? MR. PIKE: Form, move to strike. BY MR. KUVIN: 14 Q. If we go with the word "additionally," 15 halfway down the paragraph, do you see that where I 16 am starting? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. It says "Additionally there was a -- 19 A. "There was a note" and a redaction. 20 Q. Do you know who that redaction name is 21 referring to? As you sit here today can you recall? 22 A. I can't recall. 23 Q. All right. 24 A. "For a good time call," redaction, "and 25 Laura." (561) 832-7500 What did the note say? PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 61 1 Q. Okay. Why would that name be redacted -- 2 MR. PIKE: 3 MR. KUVIN: 4 THE WITNESS: 5 6 Form. -- if you know? of a minor, victim. BY MR. KUVIN: 7 Q. Okay. If we go onto the next sentence, it 8 says: 9 note"; is that correct? "Also there was another telephone number on 10 MR. PIKE: 11 THE WITNESS: 12 It would have been the name Form. Yes. BY MR. KUVIN: 13 Q. And then there is a redaction, correct? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Is that the redacted phone number of a 16 minor? Is that why it's redacted? 17 MR. PIKE: 18 THE WITNESS: 19 Form. Yes. BY MR. KUVIN: 20 Q. Then it says: "Also found was a written 21 note which stated," redaction, "cannot come at 22 7:00 p.m. tomorrow because of soccer"? 23 A. Correct. 24 Q. You saw that note? 25 A. Yes. (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 62 1 Q. And as you sit here today do you know or 2 do you recall who that person may have been, which 3 minor? 4 MR. PIKE: 5 THE WITNESS: 6 No. 4, Jane Doe No. 4. 7 Q. Okay. 9 A. Yes. 10 Was she in high school at the time? MR. PIKE: Form. BY MR. KUVIN: 12 Q. Playing soccer? 13 MR. PIKE: 14 THE WITNESS: 15 I believe it was Jane Doe BY MR. KUVIN: 8 11 Form. Form. Yes. BY MR. KUVIN: 16 Q. Let's go the next thing that I wanted to 17 ask you about and clarify. 18 would. Go to Page 16, if you 19 A. Actually if I can clarify my answer -- 20 Q. Sure. 21 A. -- on that one. 22 She might have graduated from high school already -- 23 Q. Okay. 24 A. -- and started attending her university. 25 Q. Gotcha. (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 63 1 MR. PIKE: Form. For purposes of the 2 record, you're pointing to Page 24 of Exhibit 3 2, correct? 4 5 THE WITNESS: Correct. BY MR. KUVIN: 6 Q. And we're talking about Jane Doe No. 4? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Okay. 9 Regardless was she still under the age of 18; is that why the name was redacted? 10 MR. PIKE: 11 MR. KUVIN: 12 THE WITNESS: 13 Form. If you know. I can't recall but -- BY MR. KUVIN: 14 Q. Okay. Let's go to Page 26 for a moment. 15 It looks like there was an additional trash pull 16 that was done on October 3rd, 2005; is that correct? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. All right. And in this particular trash 19 pull, the next paragraph says: "Inside one of the 20 white and color bags, I located a broken piece of 21 hard plastic or clear acrylic stick which was shaped 22 with small ridges." Do you see that? 23 A. Correct. 24 Q. This device is commonly used as a sexual 25 toy which is inserted into the vagina or anus for (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 64 1 stimulation. Do you see that? 2 A. Correct. 3 Q. I am trying to find out: This was a 4 broken piece of hard plastic. 5 ultimately determined was the utensil or was this 6 something different? 7 A. Was this what you Yes, that was the utensil. 8 different colors. 9 they were blue. They were They were purple, white. I believe 10 Q. Okay. 11 A. But they all were shaped very similar. 12 about that long. It was I would say four to five inches long. 13 Q. Okay. 14 A. And it had groves and had bumps along the way 15 with a rounded end and came back around. 16 Q. 17 18 Gotcha. MR. PIKE: Form, move to strike. BY MR. KUVIN: 19 Q. All right. Let's go to the date of 20 10/7/05 which is the next page, 27. 21 reported by you; is that correct? This is 22 A. Correct. 23 Q. Can you describe for us what you did on 24 this particular date? 25 (561) 832-7500 A. I was contacted by Sergeant Frick. PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 65 1 Mr. Epstein had been observed riding his bicycle along 2 South County Road which meant he was back in town. 3 set up to interview Haley Robson. We 4 Q. Okay. 5 A. We went out to her house, knocked on the door. 6 She agreed to accompany us back to the police department 7 for further questioning. 8 Q. 9 10 MR. PIKE: Move to strike. BY MR. KUVIN: 11 12 All right. Q. Let's go onto Page 28. Did you bring Ms. Robson back to the department? 13 A. That's correct. 14 Q. Ms. Robson at this time is how old? 15 A. I believe she was 18. 16 17 MR. PIKE: BY MR. KUVIN: 18 19 Form. Q. Okay. And when you bring her back to the department, do you interview her? 20 A. Yes, I did. 21 Q. And what exactly does she explain to you 22 during this -- well, let me ask you this: 23 point is she a suspect in a crime? 24 A. At this point she was a witness. 25 Q. Okay. (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. At this (561) 832-7506 Page 66 1 2 A. As she was the one that brought the initial victim to the house. 3 Q. Initial victim being 4 A. Correct. 5 6 MR. PIKE: Form, move to strike. BY MR. KUVIN: 7 Q. So, at this point she's a witness to 8 bringing that initial victim, 9 home; is that correct? 10 MR. PIKE: 11 THE WITNESS: 12 Form. Correct. Q. So as such any need to read her her 14 Miranda Rights at this point? 15 MR. PIKE: 16 THE WITNESS: Form. No. BY MR. KUVIN: 18 19 to Mr. Epstein's BY MR. KUVIN: 13 17 ? Q. And during the witness interview that you did with her, what did she describe to you occurred? 20 MR. PIKE: Form. 21 THE WITNESS: During a sworn taped 22 statement she explained how she met 23 Mr. Epstein; the time that she went to his 24 house, she provided a massage for Mr. Epstein. 25 (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 67 1 BY MR. KUVIN: 2 3 Q. Now, at the time she told you she provided a massage, how old was she? 4 MR. PIKE: 5 THE WITNESS: 6 17. 7 BY MR. KUVIN: 8 9 Q. Okay. Form. I believe she stated she was Let's go down if you would, third paragraph about the sixth line, seventh line from 10 the bottom. It starts with the words "he 11 explained." Do you see that? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. During the interview did Robson recount 14 any statements regarding Epstein and obtaining other 15 girls? 16 A. 17 18 Yes. MR. PIKE: Form. BY MR. KUVIN: 19 Q. What was explained? 20 A. She stated that Mr. Epstein explained that he 21 knew she was not comfortable with providing the massage 22 but he would pay her to bring some girls, told her the 23 younger the better. 24 23-year-old to perform a massage, and she was told that 25 she was too old. (561) 832-7500 Robson explained that she brought a PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 68 1 MR. PIKE: Form, move to strike. And for 2 the record, Detective Recarey, you are still 3 reading from Exhibit 2, correct? 4 5 THE WITNESS: the report. 6 7 MR. PIKE: The document is in front of you? 8 THE WITNESS: 9 MR. PIKE: 10 11 Some recollection, some off Yes, sir. And that's what is refreshing your recollection? MR. KUVIN: Hey, I appreciate your 12 objection. 13 then I will continue with my deposition and you 14 can cross him later. 15 Objection to the form works and MR. PIKE: That's not a, that's not a form 16 objection. 17 is clear as we go along that Detective Recarey 18 is reading from Exhibit 2 which you previously 19 marked and I am going to continue to do it. 20 That's to make sure that the record I am not going to interrupt your 21 deposition, but I am going continue to do 22 it to insure that the record is clear that 23 he is reading from the document that is in 24 front of him. You can proceed. 25 (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 69 1 BY MR. KUVIN: 2 Q. Detective Recarey, as you sit here today 3 do you have an independent recollection of that 4 initial interview with Haley Robson? 5 A. Yes, sir. 6 Q. Do you recall whether she discussed 7 conversations with Mr. Epstein about bringing girls 8 to the home? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. She discussed that with you? 11 A. Yes, she did. 12 13 MR. PIKE: Form. BY MR. KUVIN: 14 Q. All right. Are we talking now independent 15 from the incident report that we were referring to 16 before? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. And that independent recollection by 19 looking at the incident report, does that help 20 refresh your recollection? 21 A. Yes, it does. 22 Q. All right. 23 But that's not your entire recollection of the incident, is it? 24 25 (561) 832-7500 A. No. MR. PIKE: Form. PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 70 1 BY MR. KUVIN: 2 3 Q. You are not just reading a report into the record, are you? 4 A. No, sir. 5 Q. Okay. 6 A. Correct. 7 Q. Sitting in the room with Ms. Robson while 8 You were there, right? she was talking to you? 9 A. Yes, I was. 10 Q. Okay. What did Mr. Robson tell you, if 11 anything, about bringing young women to 12 Mr. Epstein's home? 13 MR. PIKE: 14 THE WITNESS: Form. She brought a 22, 15 23-year-old to the house to perform a massage 16 and was told that the girl was too old, was 17 told to bring girls; the younger the better. 18 BY MR. KUVIN: 19 20 Q. Was there any age cutoff as far as how young; I mean 10, 11, 12, was that described? 21 MR. PIKE: 22 THE WITNESS: 23 Form, move to strike. She did not advise. BY MR. KUVIN: 24 Q. Just the younger better? 25 A. Younger the better. (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 71 1 2 MR. PIKE: Form. BY MR. KUVIN: 3 Q. And that was told to her by whom? 4 MR. PIKE: 5 THE WITNESS: 6 Q. 8 Mr. Epstein? 9 And not a third party, but directly from MR. PIKE: 10 Form. THE WITNESS: Q. Did you ask her which one was youngest? 13 MR. PIKE: 14 THE WITNESS: 15 the youngest. 16 victim, Form. I did ask her which one was She claimed that the initial would have been the youngest. BY MR. KUVIN: 18 Q. She was how old? 19 MR. PIKE: 20 THE WITNESS: 21 Correct. BY MR. KUVIN: 12 17 Mr. Epstein. BY MR. KUVIN: 7 11 Form. Form. Fourteen. BY MR. KUVIN: 22 Q. At some point during your interview with 23 Ms. Robson did you determine that she might actually 24 be charged with a crime? 25 (561) 832-7500 A. At the conclusion of the interview as she PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 72 1 explained it that she had brought additional women, and 2 she explained that she had received monies for bringing 3 these girls to the house, basically, yes, that she had 4 incriminated herself. 5 Q. With respect to potential crimes? 6 A. Correct. 7 Q. At that point did you read her her rights, 8 her Miranda Rights? 9 A. At that point when we explained it to her, it 10 was Sergeant Frick who is now a captain, she expressed 11 her willingness to cooperate in hopes that in the, for a 12 lesser charge. 13 14 Q. Okay. So, she agreed voluntarily to cooperate with the investigation? 15 A. Correct. 16 Q. And did she cooperate with the 17 investigation? 18 MR. PIKE: Form. 19 THE WITNESS: When she got home and spoke 20 with her family in regards to the interview, it 21 was her family's determination and hers not to 22 assist. 23 BY MR. KUVIN: 24 25 (561) 832-7500 Q. Do you know why? MR. PIKE: Form. PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 73 1 MR. KUVIN: 2 MR. PIKE: 3 THE WITNESS: 4 If you know? Form. I have no idea why. BY MR. KUVIN: 5 Q. Just so I understand, initially she agreed 6 to cooperate. 7 and then comes back and says she's not going to 8 cooperate; is that the sequence of events? 9 MR. PIKE: 10 11 She then goes home, talks to family, Form. THE WITNESS: Correct. BY MR. KUVIN: 12 Q. While you're taking her back home, is a 13 tape recorder surveillance placed into the police 14 vehicle? 15 A. Correct. 16 Q. And were you one of the ones that took her 17 home? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. All right. 20 drive home -- 21 22 What did she say during that MR. PIKE: Form. BY MR. KUVIN: 23 Q. -- as best you can recall? 24 MR. PIKE: 25 THE WITNESS: (561) 832-7500 Same objection. She stated that she was like PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 74 1 a Heidi Fleiss. At that point it was the madam 2 over in, I guess, in California -- 3 MR. KUVIN: 4 THE WITNESS: 5 6 BY MR. KUVIN: Q. And the potential client in this case would have been? 9 A. Mr. Epstein. 10 Q. Okay. 11 12 MR. PIKE: Q. All right. When was the first time that you spoke with any other potential victims? 15 16 Form and move to strike. BY MR. KUVIN: 13 14 -- that provided girls to potential clients. 7 8 Okay. MR. PIKE: Form. BY MR. KUVIN: 17 Q. So, now just so I can understand the 18 timeline, up to this point we have been discussing 19 you knew about 20 talked to Haley Robson. 21 victim you learn about? as a potential victim. 22 MR. PIKE: 23 THE WITNESS: You What is the next potential Form. During the interview with 24 Haley, she explained, she gave us additional 25 names of people that she brought to the house. (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 75 1 MR. KUVIN: 2 THE WITNESS: 3 Okay. We identified some with her assistance of where they reside. 4 MR. KUVIN: Okay. 5 THE WITNESS: That night after we dropped 6 off Ms. Robson at her home, we began to attempt 7 to contact some of these girls that have been 8 to his house. 9 BY MR. KUVIN: 10 Q. All right. And just so we're clear, if 11 you turn back to Page 29 of your incident report in 12 the center of the page, once we get an unredacted 13 copy we will know, but for reference sake, do you 14 see in the second paragraph down where it says: 15 "With the assistance of Robson we were able to 16 identify." 17 bunch of black? Do you see that, and there is a whole 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Okay. It appears, and correct me if I am 20 wrong, that there is one name with a date of birth, 21 both blacked out; a second name with a date of birth 22 blacked out; a third name with a date of birth 23 blacked out; and a fourth name with the date of 24 birth blacked out? 25 (561) 832-7500 MR. PIKE: Form. PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 76 1 2 THE WITNESS: BY MR. KUVIN: 3 4 Q. So, as best as you can recall, were there four people that she identified? 5 MR. PIKE: 6 THE WITNESS: 7 Form. Yes. BY MR. KUVIN: 8 9 Correct. Q. birth? And why would you reference the date of What is the importance of that? 10 A. Indicate their age. 11 Q. Okay. 12 And why would it be blacked out if you know? 13 MR. PIKE: 14 THE WITNESS: 15 16 Form. At that point they were minors. BY MR. KUVIN: 17 Q. Okay. If we turn to Page 31 of the 18 incident report for a moment. This is the first 19 reference I could see to a rental car company. 20 let me ask you this: 21 any information regarding the use of rental cars and 22 transporting girls or women to Mr. Epstein's home? So At some point did you learn 23 MR. PIKE: Form. 24 THE WITNESS: Yes. 25 (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 77 1 BY MR. KUVIN: 2 Q. Tell us about that. 3 A. During the investigation it was determined 4 that one of the girls had a rental car. 5 Q. Do you remember which one? 6 A. From Dollar, Dollar Rent-A-Car. 7 Q. Okay. 8 A. I believe it was Jane Doe No. 4. 9 Q. Okay. 10 Do you remember which girl? And did you determine how she obtained the rental vehicle? 11 MR. PIKE: Form. 12 THE WITNESS: Records were subpoenaed to 13 Dollar to determine from the rental contract, 14 and the rental car was being paid for by 15 Mr. Epstein. 16 BY MR. KUVIN: 17 18 Q. Okay. And at the time was Jane Doe No. 4 a minor? 19 MR. PIKE: Form. 20 THE WITNESS: I believe at this time she 21 had started in the university, so I am not 22 100 percent certain as to her age at that 23 particular moment. 24 BY MR. KUVIN: 25 (561) 832-7500 Q. All right. Let's go down to the bottom of PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 78 1 Page 31. At some point there is an additional trash 2 pull done, and a U.S. Airways boarding pass is 3 obtained. Do you see that? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. There is a name there Janusz Banasiak? 6 A. Janusz, yes. 7 Q. Did you determine who that individual was 8 at any point during the investigation? 9 A. He was Mr. Epstein's houseman at the time. 10 Q. Okay. 11 listed there. And there is another person that's Who else was listed on a note paper? 12 A. Oh, Ghislaine Maxwell. 13 Q. Did you determine who she was? 14 MR. PIKE: 15 THE WITNESS: 16 MR. PIKE: 17 Form. She's Mr. Epstein's friend. Form, move to strike. BY MR. KUVIN: 18 Q. How did you determine that? 19 MR. PIKE: 20 THE WITNESS: 21 online resources. 22 Form. Through the media, online, BY MR. KUVIN: 23 Q. All right. Let's go down now to Page 32, 24 just so I can clarify this as well and find out what 25 this was. (561) 832-7500 It says: "While sifting through Epstein's PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 79 1 trash, I also collected a three-inch purple finger 2 size object which had a broken end. 3 appeared to be a broken piece from a sexual toy 4 similar to a Cyclone vibrator possibly used for 5 rectum gratification." 6 bio-hazard bag with possible body fluids. 7 8 MR. PIKE: The object The evidence was placed in Form. BY MR. KUVIN: 9 Q. At any time did you determine what that 10 particular piece of evidence was, whether, in fact, 11 it was a sexual toy? 12 A. I believe that that was the initial discovery 13 of the purple handle. 14 it as this was, this is not chronological. 15 16 Q. That was the initial discovery of This is going back, it looks if we go back up to the paragraph on April 1 of 2005? 17 THE WITNESS: 18 MR. KUVIN: 19 MR. PIKE: 20 Q. Form. This is what we were referring to before in the beginning? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Gotcha. 25 Gotcha. BY MR. KUVIN: 21 22 Correct. It would help if you guys did this in chronological order. (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 80 1 A. It's when it gets inputted. 2 Q. I hear you. If we go to Page 33, the next 3 page, there is a preference to a Joanne G. 4 that? 5 MR. PIKE: 6 THE WITNESS: 7 Form. Not 100 percent certain. BY MR. KUVIN: 8 9 Who is Q. There is a reference to an MSN Hotmail e-mail account with, just for the record, 10 A-d-r-i-a-n-a, M-u-c-i-n-s-k-a @hotmail.com. 11 see that? Do you 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Did you determine whose e-mail address 14 that was during the investigation? 15 A. That was Adriana Mucinska's. 16 Q. And who was she? 17 18 MR. PIKE: Form. BY MR. KUVIN: 19 Q. If you know. 20 MR. PIKE: 21 THE WITNESS: 22 I believe she was an employee. 23 24 Same objection. MR. PIKE: Move to strike. BY MR. KUVIN: 25 (561) 832-7500 Q. Was she a minor at the time, do you know? PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 81 1 MR. PIKE: 2 THE WITNESS: 3 Q. 5 Do you know how old she was? MR. PIKE: Form. BY MR. KUVIN: 7 Q. Did you ever determine how old she was? 8 MR. PIKE: 9 THE WITNESS: 10 11 I don't believe so. BY MR. KUVIN: 4 6 Form. Same objection. She was identified but I can't recall her age. BY MR. KUVIN: 12 Q. All right. If we go to the next page, 13 Page 34 references a phone contact you had on 14 October 4 of 2005. Do you see that? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Do you recall who that was that called you 17 back? 18 19 A. I could see her face. I am just trying to think of her name. 20 Q. Was it 21 A. No. 22 23 24 ? It was not MR. PIKE: I'm sorry. It was What page and reference are we reading from? MR. KUVIN: Page 34, first paragraph. 25 (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 82 1 BY MR. KUVIN: 2 3 Q. And was under the age of 18 at the time? 4 MR. PIKE: 5 THE WITNESS: 6 Q. MR. PIKE: 10 Form. THE WITNESS: 11 school. I can't recall exactly her age. Q. Okay. Did she describe to you whether or not she was taken to Mr. Epstein's home? 15 MR. PIKE: 16 THE WITNESS: 17 Q. What did she describe occurred when she MR. PIKE: Form. BY MR. KUVIN: 22 23 Yes. went to his home? 20 21 Form. BY MR. KUVIN: 18 19 I know she was still in high BY MR. KUVIN: 13 14 Do you know how old she was back on October 4 of 2005? 9 12 Correct. BY MR. KUVIN: 7 8 Form. Q. And just so we're clear, let me back up. Was she describing this to you? 24 A. Correct. 25 Q. Okay. (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 83 1 2 MR. PIKE: Q. A. 6 Yes. MR. PIKE: Form. BY MR. KUVIN: 8 Q. 9 During the investigation itself, correct? MR. PIKE: 10 11 And this conversation occurred between you and her, yes? 5 7 Still hearsay. BY MR. KUVIN: 3 4 Form. Form. THE WITNESS: Correct. BY MR. KUVIN: 12 Q. Okay. At this point this was a police 13 investigation to determine whether or not there 14 should be charges brought against Mr. Epstein? 15 A. 16 17 Correct. MR. PIKE: Form. BY MR. KUVIN: 18 Q. Okay. All right. 19 MR. PIKE: 20 THE WITNESS: What did she describe? Form. Well, the initial 21 conversation I had with her, she had advised 22 that nothing had happened. 23 when Captain Frick and I went to her home. 24 MR. KUVIN: 25 THE WITNESS: (561) 832-7500 I believe this is Okay. It wasn't until, I think, I PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 84 1 believe the following morning I received a 2 telephone call from her stating that she was 3 not being 100 percent truthful with me when I 4 first spoke with her. 5 MR. KUVIN: Okay. 6 THE WITNESS: And at which point she 7 described that she had been to Mr. Epstein's 8 home. 9 BY MR. KUVIN: 10 Q. All right. When she described this to 11 you, could you describe for us whether or not she 12 explained to you her mental state or her emotions 13 about this entire process? 14 MR. PIKE: 15 THE WITNESS: 16 MR. PIKE: 18 nonresponsive. She was upset. Form, move to strike, BY MR. KUVIN: 20 21 From what I recall I believe she was, she was crying. 17 19 Form. Q. Did she appear emotional during that conversation you had with her? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Did she appear upset about the incident 24 that she was describing? 25 (561) 832-7500 MR. PIKE: Form. PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 85 1 2 THE WITNESS: Yes. BY MR. KUVIN: 3 Q. Describe for us the details of what she 4 told you as best you can recall. 5 cannot recall the details, then let us know and 6 you're welcome to refresh your recollection with the 7 incident report. 8 MR. PIKE: 9 THE WITNESS: And then if you Form. I recall she was taken to 10 the home by Haley, Haley Robson. 11 remember exactly what she said, but I believe 12 she was, she was the girl who was upset. 13 was the one that got upset when either 14 Mr. Epstein tried to touch her buttocks or her 15 breasts. She I can't recall. 16 MR. PIKE: 17 nonresponsive. 18 I'm trying to Form, move to strike, MR. KUVIN: Okay. Why don't we do this: 19 Would it help to refresh your recollection by 20 looking at the incident report? 21 THE WITNESS: 22 MR. KUVIN: Yeah, it's been some time. That's fine. Go ahead and 23 take a look and refresh your recollection, if 24 you would, of the interview that you did with 25 her. (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 86 1 2 THE WITNESS: Yes. BY MR. KUVIN: 3 Q. Okay. Does the incident report help 4 refresh your recollection regarding your 5 conversation with her? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. All right. Go ahead and if you would 8 explain what she told you in this emotional phone 9 call that she had. 10 MR. PIKE: Form. 11 THE WITNESS: That she was taken to the 12 home of Jeffrey Epstein by Haley Robson. 13 went up -- she was taken upstairs. 14 BY MR. KUVIN: 15 Q. Who was she taken upstairs by? 16 A. Nadia. 17 She While she was upstairs they showed her which lotions to use. 18 Q. Let's be clear. Hang on a second. I want 19 to make sure that you take a look at Paragraph 2 20 there. 21 A. By Sarah, Sarah Kellen. 22 Q. Okay. So Sarah Kellen takes her up? 23 MR. PIKE: Form. 24 THE WITNESS: Correct. 25 (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 87 1 BY MR. KUVIN: 2 Q. Just so we're clear before I have you go 3 further, this narrative that you wrote out here, was 4 it, when was it written out? 5 A. October 7th. 6 Q. Okay. Was it written out at or around the 7 time that she came and told you this information by 8 phone? 9 MR. PIKE: 10 11 THE WITNESS: Correct. BY MR. KUVIN: 12 13 Form. Q. You recorded this down within days of this phone call? 14 MR. PIKE: Form. 15 THE WITNESS: Probably during the phone 16 call, transcribed it onto a Word Document, 17 forwarded it to Nickie Altomaro to input it 18 into the system and the notes were destroyed. 19 BY MR. KUVIN: 20 Q. All right. Let's go on. So she tells you 21 that Sarah takes her up to the room. 22 What does she tell you happened next? 23 MR. PIKE: 24 THE WITNESS: 25 (561) 832-7500 be used. What happened? Form, move to strike. She was shown which oil to Mr. Epstein came in. During the PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 88 1 massage I guess he tried to remove her shirt. 2 At this point she became upset and they had a 3 verbal disagreement. 4 and told Haley that she wanted to leave. 5 6 MR. PIKE: She came back downstairs Form, move to strike. BY MR. KUVIN: 7 Q. Did she tell you whether she ever returned 8 to the home? 9 MR. PIKE: 10 Same objections. THE WITNESS: She did state that she came 11 back to the home a second time. 12 wearing very tight jeans with a, with a tight 13 belt. 14 Mr. Epstein tried to touch her buttocks. 15 again told him that she did not want to be 16 touched and the massage was discontinued. 17 She was brought upstairs and I believe Q. Now, was she emotional and crying during the entire conversation she had with you? 20 MR. PIKE: 21 THE WITNESS: 22 She BY MR. KUVIN: 18 19 She was Form, and asked and answered. Yes, she was. BY MR. KUVIN: 23 Q. Did you investigate to determine whether 24 at the time of this incident that she reported to 25 you how old she was? (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 89 1 MR. PIKE: 2 THE WITNESS: 3 Form. 16 I believe. BY MR. KUVIN: 4 Q. How did you verify that? 5 A. She was still in high school. 6 attending Royal Palm Beach High School. 7 MR. PIKE: 8 MR. KUVIN: 9 THE WITNESS: 10 Q. Okay. Did you -- I located her date of birth. How did you find the date of birth? How do you verify dates of birth if somebody tells you? 13 14 Form. BY MR. KUVIN: 11 12 She was still A. Ask the victim the date of birth and we go back and confirm it through their driver's license. 15 Q. In other words you don't just take their 16 word for it. 17 you don't assume they are underage, do you? Just because they are in high school, 18 A. No. 19 Q. All right. Did her recollection of the 20 incident at Mr. Epstein's home bear any similarities 21 to the stories that you had heard told to you by 22 Haley Robson and ? 23 MR. PIKE: Form. 24 THE WITNESS: Yes, they had similarities. 25 (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 90 1 BY MR. KUVIN: 2 Q. All right. On the following Page 35 there 3 is an additional girl you speak to. It looks like 4 you go out to a home and speak to someone in the 5 kitchen area, do you see that, and a sworn taped 6 statement was taken? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Do you recall which girl this was? 9 MR. PIKE: 10 THE WITNESS: 11 12 I can see her face but I'm trying to recall her name. I want to say BY MR. KUVIN: 13 14 Form. Q. Uncertain though without seeing the redacted, unredacted, I should say, copy? 15 A. I believe it was She was the one that I, 16 I went to visit her at her house. 17 went into the kitchen area to talk. 18 19 Q. Okay. She had guests, so we This statement that you took from her was recorded? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. And she agreed to that statement to be 22 They are all taped statements. taken? 23 A. Correct. 24 Q. Okay. 25 Do you recall how many taped statements you took of girls? (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 91 1 MR. PIKE: 2 THE WITNESS: 3 4 Form. Several. quite a bit. BY MR. KUVIN: 5 Q. More than five? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. More than ten? 8 MR. PIKE: 9 THE WITNESS: 10 11 MR. PIKE: Form -Yes. -- to five and ten. BY MR. KUVIN: 12 Q. Did you take more than 20? 13 MR. PIKE: 14 MR. KUVIN: 15 Form. Just trying to get an idea of how many taped statements might exist. 16 MR. PIKE: 17 THE WITNESS: 18 It was, it was Form. I believe more than 20. BY MR. KUVIN: 19 Q. Now, is that more than 20 different girls? 20 MR. PIKE: Form. 21 THE WITNESS: Not only girls. Like 22 previous employees, people that have worked at 23 Mr. Epstein's home. 24 BY MR. KUVIN: 25 (561) 832-7500 Q. All these taped statements ultimately were PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 92 1 turned over to the FBI? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. That was pursuant to -- well, why don't 4 you tell us. 5 to the FBI? 6 given to them, if you know? Why, why was all of that turned over Why was your entire investigative file 7 MR. PIKE: 8 THE WITNESS: 9 Form. They came with a grand jury subpoena requesting all evidence, all working 10 files, all -- any notes, any, anything 11 pertaining to the investigation. 12 BY MR. KUVIN: 13 14 Q. And that would have included all the audio taped statements that you took? 15 A. Correct. 16 Q. All right. And I am sorry, I forgot the 17 name again of this girl that you talked to in the 18 kitchen. 19 A. 20 Q. what did she tell you occurred? 21 MR. PIKE: Form. 22 THE WITNESS: That she was taken to the 23 home of Mr. Epstein by Haley Robson. 24 brought upstairs by an employee of the house. 25 I can't recall if she identified who that (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. She was (561) 832-7506 Page 93 1 2 person was, but she was shown which oil to use. BY MR. KUVIN: 3 Q. Much like the other girls? 4 MR. PIKE: 5 MR. KUVIN: 6 MR. PIKE: 7 MR. KUVIN: 8 MR. PIKE: 9 THE WITNESS: 10 11 Okay. What question are we on now? Describing what she told him. Okay. Form. She went upstairs, provided BY MR. KUVIN: Q. 13 Was she asked to remove her clothes? MR. PIKE: Form. BY MR. KUVIN: 15 Q. Did she tell you whether she was asked to 16 remove her clothes? 17 MR. PIKE: 18 THE WITNESS: 19 Go ahead. the massage. 12 14 Form, move to strike. Form. I can't recall. BY MR. KUVIN: 20 Q. If we look at Page 35 about halfway down, 21 the beginning of the line is a blacked out word, and 22 it says "further stated." 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. All right. 25 Do you see that? Does that help refresh your recollection with respect to -- (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 94 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. -- what she described? 3 MR. PIKE: 4 THE WITNESS: 5 6 Form. room and asked her to remove her clothing. BY MR. KUVIN: 7 Q. And she was how old at this time? 8 MR. PIKE: 9 THE WITNESS: 10 11 Form. BY MR. KUVIN: Q. All right. And did she give him, did she describe whether or not she gave him a massage? 14 MR. PIKE: 15 THE WITNESS: 16 17 Form. Yes, she did. BY MR. KUVIN: Q. Was she partially naked, top of her clothing was off at the time exposing her breasts? 20 MR. PIKE: 21 THE WITNESS: 22 I remember she provided the massage. 18 19 Sixteen, I believe. Sixteen, 17. 12 13 Mr. Epstein came into the Form. I believe so. BY MR. KUVIN: 23 Q. All right. During the incident with her, 24 did she discuss whether or not a large white 25 vibrator was used at all? (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 95 1 MR. PIKE: Form. 2 THE WITNESS: Yes, I do recall it was a 3 large, large massage, massager, slash, vibrator 4 used. 5 6 MR. PIKE: BY MR. KUVIN: 7 Q. 8 used on her? 9 Did she describe whether or not it was MR. PIKE: 10 Form. THE WITNESS: 11 12 Move to strike, leading. recall. She did state it. Q. How did she describe it being used on her? 14 MR. PIKE: 15 THE WITNESS: Q. A. 20 And who was holding it at the time? Did Mr. Epstein. MR. PIKE: Form. BY MR. KUVIN: 22 23 Rubbed on her vaginal area. she explain that? 19 21 Form. BY MR. KUVIN: 17 18 She did BY MR. KUVIN: 13 16 Yes, she did. Q. Now, this conversation you had with her occurred in the kitchen area of her home? 24 THE WITNESS: 25 MR. PIKE: (561) 832-7500 Yes. Form. PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 96 1 BY MR. KUVIN: 2 3 Q. What was her demeanor during this conversation? 4 5 MR. PIKE: Form. BY MR. KUVIN: 6 Q. I mean, was she calm, cool, collected, was 7 she upset? 8 demeanor. 9 I mean describe for us if you would her MR. PIKE: 10 Form. THE WITNESS: I'm trying to recall. 11 think she was upset. 12 MR. KUVIN: 13 MR. PIKE: 14 Okay. Thank you. BY MR. KUVIN: 15 16 Q. Did Mr. Epstein give her money at the conclusion of this event? 17 MR. PIKE: 18 THE WITNESS: 19 Form. Yes. BY MR. KUVIN: 20 21 I Q. Does she describe to you whether or not Mr. Epstein ejaculated during the massage? 22 MR. PIKE: 23 THE WITNESS: 24 Form. Yes, he did. I believe he did. 25 (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 97 1 BY MR. KUVIN: 2 Q. Now, at the end of the page I notice you 3 have a note there regarding her description of her 4 emotional state. 5 anything, regarding how she felt about this incident 6 occurring? 7 A. What did she describe to you, if If I can refresh -- 8 MR. PIKE: 9 MR. KUVIN: Form. Please do. 10 THE WITNESS: 11 MR. PIKE: 12 Thanks. And for the record, the witness is refreshing his recollection with Exhibit 2. 13 THE WITNESS: 14 Okay. That she was ashamed and embarrassed about the situation. 15 MR. KUVIN: 16 MR. PIKE: 17 Okay. Is this a good time to take break? 18 MR. KUVIN: 19 Sure. All right. It's 11:30 we'll take a five-minute break. 20 (A brief recess was held and Ms. 21 Finnigan entered the deposition room and 22 Mr. Garcia left the deposition room. 23 BY MR. KUVIN: 24 25 Q. Okay. All right. Narrative 10 for a moment. (561) 832-7500 Let's go to Page 37 in It looks like, correct PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 98 1 me if I'm wrong, that on this particular date, 2 October 6th, 2005 -- well, you tell me. 3 you do on that date? 4 5 A. What did That was the date back then when Detective Dawson and I went to down to speak to Jane Doe No. 4. 6 Q. Jane -- 7 A. Doe No. 4. 8 Q. Okay. 9 A. To the university she was attending. 10 Q. Okay. 11 A. Yes, I believe so. 13 MR. PIKE: Form. BY MR. KUVIN: 15 16 When you went there did you get a chance to meet with her? 12 14 And where did you have to go? Q. All right. And what was her demeanor when you met with her on this particular occasion? 17 MR. PIKE: 18 THE WITNESS: 19 20 I can't recall her exact demeanor. BY MR. KUVIN: 21 22 Form. Q. Do you recall whether this conversation was taped? Was this a taped statement? 23 A. I am trying to remember. 24 Q. Okay. 25 I believe it was. And during this particular interview, did she describe to you what she thought (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 99 1 of Mr. Epstein? 2 MR. PIKE: 3 MR. KUVIN: Form. And if you can't recall, 4 you're welcome to refresh your recollection. 5 Just let us know that you need to refresh your 6 recollection and utilize the report. 7 THE WITNESS: 8 the report because it was some time ago. 9 MR. KUVIN: 10 Okay. Take a look at the report, the bottom of the page, last line. 11 MR. PIKE: 12 MR. KUVIN: 13 I'm going have to look at Are we still on Page 35? Thirty-seven. BY MR. KUVIN: 14 Q. How did she describe Mr. Epstein? 15 MR. PIKE: Form. 16 THE WITNESS: She was uncomfortable. She 17 considered Jeff a pervert who kept pushing to 18 go further and further. 19 BY MR. KUVIN: 20 Q. And if we look at Page 38, bottom of the 21 first paragraph, last line, during the incidents 22 that she described to you with Mr. Epstein, how old 23 was she? 24 25 (561) 832-7500 A. Sixteen. MR. PIKE: Form, move to strike. PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 100 1 BY MR. KUVIN: 2 Q. All right. Let's move to Page 39 if we 3 could. On October 10, 2005, you made telephone 4 contact with someone. Do you recall who that was? 5 A. Yes, I do. 6 Q. Okay. 7 A. I believe this was Jane Doe No. 103 8 Q. Okay. 9 And which person was this? And if we go through this particular phone call, I believe you actually 10 document in this phone call her emotional state. 11 we look at Paragraph 2, five lines up from the 12 bottom. 13 If (Mr. Goldberger entered the 14 deposition room.) 15 BY MR. KUVIN: 16 Q. What did you document as Ms. Jane Doe No. 17 103's emotional state was during this conversation 18 you had with her? 19 MR. PIKE: Form. 20 THE WITNESS: She was crying hysterically 21 and very upset as she was discussing the 22 incidents. 23 BY MR. KUVIN: 24 25 Q. Okay. And as she's crying discussing these incidents, does she describe to you how many (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 101 1 times these had occurred? 2 MR. PIKE: 3 MR. KUVIN: Form. And if you need the report to 4 help refresh your recollection, you're welcome 5 come to use that. 6 using it for that purpose. 7 THE WITNESS: 8 I know it was numerous times over a two-year period. 9 10 Just let us know that you're MR. PIKE: Move to strike. BY MR. KUVIN: 11 Q. If you look at the report after the 12 section that says "Ms. Jane Doe No. 103 began crying 13 on the telephone," do you see that line? 14 MR. PIKE: 15 THE WITNESS: 16 Q. How many times do you document that she tells you she had been there over a two-year period? 19 MR. PIKE: 20 THE WITNESS: 21 Yes. BY MR. KUVIN: 17 18 Form. Form. Hundreds of times. BY MR. KUVIN: 22 Q. Do you make this report, do you write out 23 this report at or around the time the phone call 24 occurred? 25 (561) 832-7500 A. Correct. PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 102 1 2 Q. Contemporaneous, essentially, as you're taking notes? 3 A. Correct. 4 Q. You type it up soon thereafter? 5 A. Correct. 6 Q. Is she, at the time these incidents 7 occurred, does she express to you whether she was 8 under the age of 18? 9 MR. PIKE: 10 11 THE WITNESS: Q. How old do you determine that she was during the incidents that she describes? 14 MR. PIKE: 15 THE WITNESS: 16 Yes. BY MR. KUVIN: 12 13 Form. Form. Sixteen years old. BY MR. KUVIN: 17 Q. And at the time that she's 16 year old, 18 was she able to recount to you what Mr. Epstein's 19 penis looked like? 20 MR. PIKE: 21 THE WITNESS: 22 Form. Yes, she did. BY MR. KUVIN: 23 Q. How did she describe it? 24 MR. PIKE: 25 THE WITNESS: (561) 832-7500 Form. I believe she recalled it as PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 103 1 2 an egg-shaped penis. BY MR. KUVIN: 3 Q. All right. I want to make sure that we're 4 talking about the correct girl here. 5 the report on October 10, 2005, does she describe 6 whether or not it is circumcised? 7 MR. PIKE: 8 THE WITNESS: 9 Form. Q. Okay. And did she understand what that meant to be circumcised or not circumcised? 12 MR. PIKE: 13 THE WITNESS: 14 Yes, she does. BY MR. KUVIN: 10 11 If we look at Form. Correct. BY MR. KUVIN: 15 Q. Does Ms. Jane Doe No. 103 also describe 16 any additional sexual acts other than naked massages 17 for Mr. Epstein that she engaged in? 18 MR. PIKE: Form. 19 THE WITNESS: Yes, she did. During my 20 interview with her, that was actually -- there 21 was one on the telephone, and I agreed to meet 22 with her to speak with her personally to get a 23 more in-depth interview with her. 24 BY MR. KUVIN: 25 (561) 832-7500 Q. Let's talk about just this phone call PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 104 1 first, and I want to go through in here. 2 at the last paragraph on Page 39, it says, and I am 3 assuming this is referring to Ms. Jane Doe No. 103 4 "became more upset, crying hysterically." 5 If we look Do you see that last paragraph? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Okay. So, during this phone call you're 8 having with her, she's actually crying hysterically 9 on the phone to you? 10 MR. PIKE: 11 THE WITNESS: 12 Q. And you documented that at the time that you had the phone call with her? 15 16 A. Yes, I did. As a matter of fact it was recorded. 17 Q. Okay. 18 MR. PIKE: 19 THE WITNESS: 20 Form. It was a recorded telephone call. 21 22 Yes. BY MR. KUVIN: 13 14 Form. MR. PIKE: Form to the last question. BY MR. KUVIN: 23 Q. When this phone call occurred with 24 Ms. Jane Doe No. 103, what was her, just so we're 25 clear, what was her emotional state? (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 105 1 MR. PIKE: Form, speculation. 2 THE WITNESS: She was crying hysterically. 3 And I recall having to give her time to regain 4 her composure to continue the conversation. 5 BY MR. KUVIN: 6 Q. And does she describe additional sexual 7 acts that she engaged in with Mr. Epstein other than 8 naked massages? 9 MR. PIKE: 10 Form. THE WITNESS: Yes. She described having a 11 relationship with Nadia Marcinkova. 12 she described at one time, I believe, she had 13 sex with Mr. Epstein one time. 14 I believe BY MR. KUVIN: 15 Q. All right. Let's do this: I want you to 16 take a look at this last paragraph on Page 39 for a 17 second and see if that helps refresh your 18 recollection. 19 couple of questions about the phone call in 20 particular. And then I would like to ask you a 21 A. Okay. 22 Q. All right. 23 During this part of the phone call, is she still, is she still emotional with you? 24 MR. PIKE: 25 THE WITNESS: (561) 832-7500 Form. Yes, very. PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 106 1 BY MR. KUVIN: 2 Q. Okay. And what does she describe occurs 3 between her, Ms. Marcinkova, Mr. Epstein, if 4 anything? 5 MR. PIKE: Form. 6 THE WITNESS: It was oral sex performed on 7 her. 8 There was other sexual toys being used, a 9 vibrator. 10 There was strap-on penises utilized. BY MR. KUVIN: 11 Q. Does she describe whether or not 12 Mr. Epstein actually puts his fingers inside of her 13 vagina or not? 14 A. 15 16 Yes. MR. PIKE: Form. BY MR. KUVIN: 17 Q. What does she state about that? 18 MR. PIKE: Form. 19 THE WITNESS: That Mr. Epstein inserted 20 his fingers in her vagina in an attempt to make 21 her climax as she was masturbating him. 22 BY MR. KUVIN: 23 Q. All of this while she was how old? 24 A. Sixteen. 25 Q. All right. (561) 832-7500 At some point you have to stop PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 107 1 the phone call; is that correct? 2 A. Correct. 3 Q. Why? 4 A. She was unable to maintain her composure to 5 talk to me. 6 Q. Did you make arrangements to meet with 8 A. Correct. 9 Q. You then meet up with her? 10 A. Correct. 11 Q. Where do you meet her? 12 A. At a park in Jacksonville. 13 Q. Is she with someone at the time? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Who was she with? 16 A. She was with a female friend. 17 Q. Does she describe for you her history with 18 Mr. Epstein? 7 her? 19 MR. PIKE: 20 THE WITNESS: 21 Yes. BY MR. KUVIN: 22 23 Form. Q. Now, does she talk to you at all about Nadia Marcinkova when you met with her in person? 24 A. Yes, she did. 25 Q. Okay. (561) 832-7500 And was that particular meeting in PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 108 1 Jacksonville tape recorded? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Okay. So one of the tapes that is 4 currently in the possession of the FBI would include 5 that interview? 6 A. Correct. 7 Q. Okay. 8 interview in Jacksonville -- 9 10 Was she still emotional during the MR. PIKE: Objection. BY MR. KUVIN: 11 Q. -- about the incidents that occurred? 12 A. At times she would get emotional and start to Q. Okay. 13 cry. 14 If we go down to Page 40 in your 15 report -- first let me back up. 16 her, do you take notes? When you meet with 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. And do you record those notes into the 19 report itself in a timely manner? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. If we look at the bottom of Page 40, does 22 she recount to you anything with respect to Nadia 23 Marcincova and how Epstein and her may have met? 24 MR. PIKE: 25 THE WITNESS: (561) 832-7500 Form. She claimed that Epstein had PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 109 1 purchased Nadia Marcincova from her family in 2 Yugoslavia. 3 BY MR. KUVIN: 4 Q. Okay. All right. Let's turn to Page 41. 5 Now, she recounts to you, or does she recount to you 6 whether she has actually seen Mr. Epstein's penis? 7 MR. PIKE: 8 THE WITNESS: 9 Form. Yes, she did. BY MR. KUVIN: 10 Q. So, she tells you that she saw it? 11 A. Correct. 12 13 MR. PIKE: Form. BY MR. KUVIN: 14 Q. Did she see it once or numerous times? 15 THE WITNESS: 16 MR. PIKE: 17 Numerous times. Form. BY MR. KUVIN: 18 Q. All right. And when she's discussing this 19 with you, is she also, is she in an emotional state, 20 upset, distraught about it at all? 21 MR. PIKE: Form. 22 THE WITNESS: Like I said, during the 23 interview as we were getting more and more 24 information, she would get upset. 25 stop. (561) 832-7500 We would Allowed her to regain her composure and PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 110 1 2 we would continue. BY MR. KUVIN: 3 Q. All right. If we look at Page 41, you 4 have there in the second paragraph an explanation of 5 her description of Mr. Epstein's penis; is that 6 correct? 7 8 THE WITNESS: BY MR. KUVIN: 9 10 Q. And at the time that this was occurring, how old was she? 11 MR. PIKE: 12 THE WITNESS: 13 Form. Sixteen. BY MR. KUVIN: 14 15 Q. And could you tell us how she described Mr. Epstein's penis at the time? 16 MR. PIKE: 17 THE WITNESS: 18 19 deformed. Form. She claimed that it was She called it egg-shaped. BY MR. KUVIN: 20 Q. What description did she actually use? 21 MR. PIKE: 22 THE WITNESS: 23 Form, asked and answered. It was oval in shape. BY MR. KUVIN: 24 25 Correct. Q. All right. If we look here, you have recorded exactly -- well, let me ask you this: (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Did (561) 832-7506 Page 111 1 you record exactly what she had told you during the 2 interview? 3 A. Yes, I did. 4 Q. All right. If we look at Page 41, she 5 claimed when Mr. Epstein's penis was erect, it was 6 thick towards the bottom but was thin and small 7 toward the head portion. 8 MR. PIKE: 9 THE WITNESS: 10 Q. All right. A. Yes. 14 MR. PIKE: Is that what she described to Form. BY MR. KUVIN: 16 17 Q. Were you the one that used the term egg-shaped. 18 MR. PIKE: 19 THE WITNESS: 20 Yes. you? 13 15 Form, leading. BY MR. KUVIN: 11 12 Do you see that? Form. No, she used egg-shaped. BY MR. KUVIN: 21 Q. Okay. Any reason that you could think of 22 at the time of this interview why a 16-year-old girl 23 would know how to describe Mr. Epstein's penis -- 24 MR. PIKE: 25 THE WITNESS: (561) 832-7500 Form, confusing. No. PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 112 1 BY MR. KUVIN: 2 Q. -- any lawful reason why you could think 3 of why a 16-year-old girl could describe 4 Mr. Epstein's penis? 5 MR. PIKE: 6 THE WITNESS: 7 10 No. BY MR. KUVIN: 8 9 Form. Q. Did Ms. Jane Doe No. 103 describe whether or not she had an ongoing sexual relationship with Mr. Epstein and Ms. Marcinkova at all? 11 A. Yes, she did. 12 MR. PIKE: 13 THE WITNESS: She stated that -- Form. She stated that when she 14 would come over, there was, she would have 15 either relations with Nadia or -- and at one 16 point she even stated there were some 17 photographs taken of her in the tub with Nadia. 18 19 MR. PIKE: Form. BY MR. KUVIN: 20 Q. Did you ever recover those photographs? 21 A. No. 22 23 24 25 (561) 832-7500 MR. PIKE: Form, move to strike the previous response. MS. EZELL: Mr. Kuvin, excuse me. I was trying to object to the form of the previous PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 113 1 question about how a 16-year-old girl would 2 know how to describe the penis. 3 phone was muted at the time. And I think my 4 MR. KUVIN: It was, but thank you. 5 MS. EZELL: Thanks. 6 that recorded. 7 8 If I could just have MR. KUVIN: Sure. BY MR. KUVIN: 9 Q. All right. If we look at your report on 10 Page 41. It appears that Ms. Jane Doe No. 103 11 describes an incident that occurred in the massage 12 room. 13 14 Do you see that, second paragraph from the bottom? 15 MR. PIKE: 16 THE WITNESS: 17 Form, leading. Yes. BY MR. KUVIN: 18 Q. All right. Why don't you for a second, 19 read the second paragraph from the bottom, and then 20 I have a couple of questions to ask you about it. 21 Go ahead. 22 want to make sure and then I'm going to ask you 23 about it. Just read the whole paragraph. 24 A. Can I use her name? 25 Q. No, no. (561) 832-7500 I just I want you to just read the PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 114 1 second paragraph from the bottom. 2 3 A. or use the redacted portions of it? 4 5 I know, but do you want to me to use her name Q. Yes. We're discussing Ms. Jane Doe No. 103 at this point. 6 A. "Jane Doe No. 103 advised one day, Jane Doe 7 No. 103 was unable to state the exact date this incident 8 occurred." 9 10 Q. I'm sorry. Read it to yourself and I will just ask you questions. 11 A. Okay. 12 Q. Sorry about that. Okay. Did Ms. Jane Doe 13 No. 103 describe to you an incident that occurred in 14 the massage room at Mr. Epstein's home? 15 A. 16 17 Yes. MR. PIKE: Form. BY MR. KUVIN: 18 Q. And what did she describe to you with 19 respect to Epstein and her and any contact that he 20 may have had with her? 21 MR. PIKE: Form. 22 THE WITNESS: She stated that she had gone 23 up to the bedroom and that both Marcinkova and 24 Epstein were in the bedroom. 25 naked. (561) 832-7500 They were already She had removed her clothing. PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. There (561) 832-7506 Page 115 1 was an appointed time when her and Nadia began 2 kissing, touching on the massage table. 3 stated that she had achieved climax. 4 She All the while this was occurring 5 Mr. Epstein was masturbating. 6 point Mr. Epstein put her onto the massage 7 table and inserted his penis into her 8 vagina. 9 BY MR. KUVIN: 10 11 Q. Did she say whether or not this was consensual or not? 12 MR. PIKE: 13 THE WITNESS: 14 Form. Q. And what did she say occurred happened at that point? 17 MR. PIKE: 18 THE WITNESS: 19 very quick. 20 vagina. 21 Form. She said this occurred for He removed himself from her BY MR. KUVIN: 22 23 This was not consensual. BY MR. KUVIN: 15 16 At one Q. Did she say whether or not she told him A. Yes. no? 24 25 (561) 832-7500 MR. PIKE: Form, move to strike. PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 116 1 BY MR. KUVIN: 2 Q. 3 And she said no? MR. PIKE: Hold on a second. The witness 4 is answering the question. 5 rather than lead the witness through his answer 6 so he can answer the way that you would like, 7 would you please ensure that the witness is 8 finished with his answer before you follow 9 through with the next question. 10 BY MR. KUVIN: 11 12 Q. Did she explain whether or not she said no? 13 MR. PIKE: 14 THE WITNESS: 15 Form. Yes, she did. BY MR. KUVIN: 16 Q. And she said no? 17 A. Yes. 18 19 MR. PIKE: Form. BY MR. KUVIN: 20 21 So if you would, Q. Okay. And what did he do when she said that? 22 MR. PIKE: Form. 23 THE WITNESS: He apologized to her and she 24 stated that she had received $1,000 for that 25 visit. (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 117 1 BY MR. KUVIN: 2 3 Q. Did she say whether or not as a result of the incident she was injured in any way? 4 MR. PIKE: Form. 5 THE WITNESS: I can't recall if -- I know 6 that during our conversations, during her 7 visits going to the house and during the 8 different acts that occurred while she was at 9 the house, she claimed that she had left very 10 sore, but I don't recall her saying anything as 11 to that particular incident. 12 BY MR. KUVIN: 13 Q. All right. If we turn to the next page, 14 Page 42, Narrative 12, this narrative is reported by 15 you? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. All right. As a result of the interviews 18 that you had done in the investigation up until this 19 point, did you request a search warrant for the 20 home? 21 A. Yes, I did. 22 Q. And was a search warrant actually signed 23 by the judge? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. When was that warrant executed on the (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 118 1 home? 2 A. Sometime in October. 3 Q. All right. If we look at Page 42, it 4 says: "on October 18, 2005, I met with Judge Laura 5 Johnson who signed the warrant." 6 October 20, 2005, at approximatly 9:36 a.m., members 7 of the police department investigation unit executed 8 the warrant? 9 A. Correct. 10 Q. Is that in and about the time the warrant 11 And then on was executed? 12 A. That's correct. 13 Q. And this warrant, the execution of this 14 warrant was videotaped? 15 16 A. The -- it's our policy when the search warrant is executed, we do entry/exit videos. 17 Q. Okay. 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. And you kept those videos at the 20 That's what you did in this case? department? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. They are a part of the investigation? 23 A. Yes, sir. 24 Q. And the videos were taken, were they taken 25 by personnel working for the department? (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 119 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. All right. 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Tell us, if you would, how you found the And you were present? 5 state of the home when you arrived on that date for 6 the inspection? 7 MR. PIKE: 8 MR. KUVIN: 9 Form. Or for the execution of the warrant, excuse me. 10 THE WITNESS: It was determined, obviously 11 when we were in the house, that the house was 12 somewhat sanitized. 13 MR. PIKE: 14 MR. KUVIN: 15 Form. Describe what you mean. I think we just got disconnected. 16 Ms. Ezell. 17 (A brief recess was held.) 18 MR. KUVIN: We lost you, Kathy. 19 MS. EZELL: Sorry. 20 Lost you for a minute. BY MR. KUVIN: 21 Q. All right. You mentioned before we took a 22 quick break there that you felt that the house was, 23 or you determined that the house was somewhat 24 sanitized. 25 (561) 832-7500 Can you describe what you mean by that? MR. PIKE: Form. PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 120 1 THE WITNESS: The CPU's were removed. The 2 CPU's being the computers. 3 removed. 4 cabinet in which they claimed all the oils were 5 being kept were, was empty except for one 6 bottle that was way in the back. 7 the bedroom where they claimed all the toys 8 were was empty. 9 MR. KUVIN: 10 11 The towers were The wires were just left. The The drawer in That's what I meant by -Sanitized? THE WITNESS: (Witness nods head.) BY MR. KUVIN: 12 Q. Okay. During the inspection that you did 13 or the warrant, execution of the warrant, did you 14 determine whether or not there were any internal 15 security cameras in the home? 16 A. 17 18 Yes, there were. MR. PIKE: Form. BY MR. KUVIN: 19 Q. And do you recall whether there were any 20 located based on your inspection in the upstairs 21 area of the home? 22 MR. PIKE: Form. 23 THE WITNESS: Not in the upstairs area. 24 There was a covert clock in the downstairs 25 office area and there was another covert clock (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 121 1 2 on the wall in the garage. BY MR. KUVIN: 3 Q. Okay. The one in the garage, what was it 4 pointing at? 5 to see from that direction? In other words what was it attempting 6 MR. PIKE: Form. 7 THE WITNESS: I believe it was, it was the 8 overview of the vehicles kept in the garage, 9 bicycles, motorcycle, cars, garage doors, so... 10 BY MR. KUVIN: 11 12 Q. Okay. And the one in the office was pointed at what? 13 MR. PIKE: 14 THE WITNESS: 15 Form. The desk living room area. BY MR. KUVIN: 16 Q. Okay. Any other cameras that you can 17 recall finding during the execution of the warrant, 18 either covert or overt? 19 MR. PIKE: 20 THE WITNESS: 21 Form. Not that I can recall. BY MR. KUVIN: 22 Q. Okay. And did you come to learn or 23 discover any information about whether Mr. Epstein 24 may have been tipped off as to the execution of this 25 warrant? (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 122 1 MR. PIKE: Form. 2 THE WITNESS: I know that some of the 3 girls had maintained contact with Sarah Kellen. 4 There was a couple of girls that stated that 5 Sarah Kellen was calling to find out the status 6 or questions asked by us, the police 7 department. 8 BY MR. KUVIN: 9 Q. This all occurred prior to the warrant? 10 MR. PIKE: 11 THE WITNESS: 12 MR. PIKE: 13 Q. A. And by the time you left the property was Yes. As we were leaving securing the residence, a Guy Fronstin walked up onto the property. 18 19 Move to strike. an attorney, did an attorney arrive? 16 17 Yes. BY MR. KUVIN: 14 15 Form. Q. Okay. How long did the execution of this warrant take, roughly? 20 MR. PIKE: 21 MR. KUVIN: 22 Form. What is wrong with that question? 23 MR. PIKE: 24 investigation. 25 hearsay testimony with these questions. (561) 832-7500 It is depending on the You're tip-toeing into a lot of PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. I (561) 832-7506 Page 123 1 don't know where it's coming from. 2 asked several questions here about-- 3 MR. KUVIN: 4 MR. PIKE: 5 MR. KUVIN: 6 of the warrant take. 7 MR. PIKE: You have The outstanding question is -Wait, wait, wait one second. -- how long did the execution I am going to answer your 8 question. You have asked several questions 9 here today that involve hearsay opinion 10 testimony from others that Detective Recarey 11 allegedly spoke to others that spoke to, for 12 instance, third parties that spoke to Detective 13 Recarey. 14 And as a result you have very serious 15 opinion and hearsay privileges that are 16 asserted here. 17 understand the point of this deposition 18 today because none of it is admissible. 19 And I really don't So, hopefully that helps you with 20 your question, and you can rephrase them 21 or, you know, just continue. 22 And while we're on that topic, let me 23 ask you this, it's 12:15 and -- 24 MR. KUVIN: 25 (561) 832-7500 I was going to break at 12:30 for lunch. PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 124 1 MR. PIKE: 2 MR. KUVIN: 3 How much longer do you have? I have no idea. I have no idea. 4 But the question that's pending that 5 I wanted an explanation or which you 6 haven't explained is how long did it take 7 you to execute this search warrant. 8 MR. PIKE: 9 MR. KUVIN: 10 Form. MR. PIKE: And the form would be? How long did it take to 11 execute: 12 What time? Him? 13 detective? I don't know. 14 What search warrant? His officers? Where? MR. KUVIN: When? What Shall I go on? Actually, yeah, because it's 15 kind of comical, but I will clarify because you 16 don't understand. 17 BY MR. KUVIN: 18 19 Q. Detective Recarey, how long were you on Mr. Epstein's property that day? 20 MR. PIKE: Form, predicate. You have 21 actually even -- here, let me help you out a 22 bit. 23 appropriate predicate and foundation that he 24 was the one that executed the search warrant or 25 whether it was his team that executed the (561) 832-7500 You have actually failed to lay the PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 125 1 2 search warrant, so... BY MR. KUVIN: 3 4 Q. Detective Recarey, did you go to Mr. Epstein's house that day? 5 A. Yes, I did. 6 Q. And how long were you at his house that A. I believe we started around 9:30 and we 7 day? 8 9 concluded I want to say around 1:00. 10 Q. Okay. I have a whole bunch of property 11 receipts that were turned over by the Town of Palm 12 Beach. 13 us the other day by e-mail. 14 15 16 This was the property receipt turned over to MR. PIKE: This is not what we discussed yesterday. MR. KUVIN: This is an e-mail from 17 Ms. O'Connor's office that was sent to 18 everybody. 19 20 MR. EDWARDS: These were all in the original production as well. 21 MR. PIKE: 22 MR. KUVIN: I have a copy. Thank you. I would like to show you those 23 property receipts. 24 let's mark all property receipts as Exhibit 4. 25 Do it as a composite exhibit. (561) 832-7500 And just for the record, PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 126 1 (Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 4 was marked for 2 3 identification.) BY MR. KUVIN: 4 Q. Can you tell by looking at the property 5 receipts what property was seized on the date of the 6 execution of the warrant versus other property that 7 may have been obtained during the investigation? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. All right. Could you pull out the 10 property receipts regarding the property seized on 11 the date of the execution of the warrant. 12 separate those out for us. 13 A. Just PC affidavit would have actually written on it 14 search warrant return on the very top, so it's easy to 15 identify plus it would be notarized at the bottom. 16 Q. Great. Take a look then. 17 A. I have five here, but it looks like I am 18 missing one because it says one of six; two, three, 19 four, five. 20 Q. Just if you would look through the 21 remaining documents to make sure we're not missing a 22 page. Yeah, keep those separate. 23 MR. PIKE: 24 THE WITNESS: 25 MR. KUVIN: (561) 832-7500 Move to strike. Here we go. Okay. Page 6 of 6. Just put the rest of it PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 127 1 back and I just want to make sure that I got 2 the entire -- let's do this if you would: 3 Stick 4, I am going to put 4-A on this document 4 just so that we can separate it out from the 5 rest of 4. 6 THE WITNESS: 7 MR. PIKE: 8 (Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 4-A was marked 9 Yes, I know. I have got it. for identification.) 10 MR. PIKE: 11 And it's six pages, correct, 1 through 6? 12 THE WITNESS: 13 MR. KUVIN: 14 That was towards the back. Yes, sir. That's correct. BY MR. KUVIN: 15 Q. Let's go through this for a moment. 16 right. Is this a document that you fill out? 17 other words is that your handwriting? All In 18 A. It might have been crime scene's. 19 Q. Okay. 20 A. Yes, I do. 21 Q. All right. 22 appear? 23 A. It would be in the performance of my duties. 24 Q. Gotcha. 25 A. Yes. (561) 832-7500 Do you sign the document at all? Where does your signature In the bottom right corner? PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 128 1 2 Q. It's got your ID number there. was your ID number at the time? 3 A. 7915. 4 Q. And the unit was what? 5 A. At that time I was Delta Unit. 6 It was Delta II. 7 8 And what Q. Okay. And the date that this property was recovered was when? 9 A. October 20th, 2005. 10 Q. All right. 11 things. 12 books from the kitchen area of the house; is that 13 correct? 14 A. 15 16 Let's go through some of these It appears that you retrieved phone message Correct. MR. PIKE: Form. BY MR. KUVIN: 17 Q. There seemed to be little bar codes next 18 to some of the descriptions. 19 describe what those are. 20 A. I would ask you to The bar codes is actually utilized by crime 21 scene to find the location of it. 22 property itself and the property receipt has the same 23 bar code, and it's to help them identify where it is in 24 the evidence room. 25 (561) 832-7500 Q. Okay. It's a -- the Did you recover numerous different PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506 Page 129 1 phone message pads? 2 MR. PIKE: 3 THE WITNESS: 4 Yes, I did. BY MR. KUVIN: 5 6 Form. Q. Let's go to Page 2 along with phone message pads. 7 8 9 Did you also recover CD's and -- MR. EDWARDS: again. MR. PIKE: Kathy, are you there? 10 MR. EDWARDS: 11 MR. KUVIN: 12 break. MR. PIKE: 14 MR. KUVIN: 12:30. We're about to break anyway. Why don't we go ahead and How long do you want for lunch? 13 15 Half hour. Is that okay with you? MR. EPSTEIN: 17 MR. KUVIN: 19 It's Let's do 30. 16 18 We might have lost her Back at 1:00? Yes, back at 1:00. (A luncheon recess was held.) * * * * * 20 21 22 23 24 25 (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (561) 832-7506