Case: Doc 37 Filed: 10/24/19 Page: 1 of 22 PAGEID 536 THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF OHIO WESTERN DIVISION JASON COTTERMAN, CASE NO. 1:17?cv?608 Plaintiff, Judge William O. Bertelsman ?vs? Magistrate Karen Litkovitz CITY OF CINCINNATI, et a1., Defendants. Deposition of MICHELLE LONGWORTH, a witness herein, taken by the Plaintiff as upon cross?examination and pursuant to the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure and Notice as to time and place and stipulations hereinafter set forth, at Lazarus Lewis, LLC, 915 Cincinnati Club Building, 30 Garfield Place, Cincinnati, Ohio, on Tuesday, September 24, 2019, at 9:43 before Jane Anne Fitch, a Notary Public within and for the State of Ohio. ORIGINAL FITCH REPORTING, INC. Cincinnati: 513?777?2500 USA: 800?569?7888 Case: 1:17-cv-00608-WOB-KLL Doc #: 37 Filed: 10/24/19 Page: 2 of 22 PAGEID #: 537 Page 2 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 INDEX Witness: MICHELLE LONGWORTH Cross-Examination by: Mr. Croskery Page 4 STIPULATIONS 1 It is stipulated by and between counsel 2 Page: 5 Plaintiff's Exhibit (previously marked) No. 23................................. 74 No. 29................................. 22 No. 30................................. 37 --- Page referred: 3 for the respective parties that the deposition of MICHELLE 4 LONGWORTH, a witness herein, called as upon cross-examination 5 by the Plaintiff may be taken at this time and place pursuant 6 to the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure and Notice and 7 agreement of counsel as to time and place of taking said 8 deposition; that the deposition was recorded in stenotype by 9 the court reporter, Jane Anne Fitch, and transcribed out of 10 the presence of the witness; and that said deposition is to 11 be submitted to the witness for her examination and 12 signature. --- 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 3 1 APPEARANCES: For the Plaintiff: 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 Robert F. Croskery, Esq. of Croskery Law Offices 3905 Eastern Avenue Suite 200 Cincinnati, Ohio 45226 For the Defendants: Julie F. Bissinger, Esq. of City of Cincinnati Law 801 Plum Street Suite 214 Cincinnati, Ohio 45202 Also present: 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Mr. Jason Cotterman ___ 1 MICHELLE LONGWORTH, 2 of lawful age, a witness herein, was first duly sworn as 3 hereinafter certified, and examined and deposed as follows: CROSS-EXAMINATION 4 5 BY MR. CROSKERY: 6 Q 7 A Michelle Longworth. 8 Q And what is your current address -- oh, 9 Please state your full name. wait. MR. CROSKERY: Can we get ahold of her 10 For the Witness: R. Jessup Gage, Esq. of Lazarus & Lewis, LLC 915 Cincinnati Club Building 30 Garfield Place Cincinnati, Ohio 45202 15 Page 5 11 if we need her through asking you? You will so 12 stipulate? MR. GAGE: Yes, or through the Police 13 14 15 Department. BY MR. CROSKERY: 16 Q 17 before? 18 A 19 Q How many times? 20 A Twice. 21 Q And what were they in connection with? 22 A With my employment through the Cincinnati 23 24 25 I assume you've had your deposition taken I have. Police Department. Q All right. Any more recollection of what specifically the first one was about? 2 (Pages 2 to 5) Fitch Reporting, Inc. 800-569-7888 Case: 1:17-cv-00608-WOB-KLL Doc #: 37 Filed: 10/24/19 Page: 3 of 22 PAGEID #: 538 Page 6 Page 8 1 A Cincinnati. 2 that I made, and the other one was involving a lawsuit 2 Q And what class were you in? 3 against Children's Hospital. 3 A 89. 4 Q There was only one class in '89, I take A 1 Q 4 5 One was a -- involving a traffic stop You're not a Defendant, I assume, in either one of those cases? 5 it? 6 A No. 6 A There was only one class in 89. 7 Q So, the lawsuit against Children's 7 Q So starting with your graduation from the 8 Hospital, about when was that? 8 Police Academy, can you just briefly go through with me your 9 history of -- 9 A 2008. 10 Q How about the traffic stop? 10 11 A I don't remember. 11 Q Before the lawsuit involving the 12 12 13 hospital? 13 14 A Before. 14 15 Q All right. So it's been a while since 15 MR. GAGE: I'm sorry, you looked like you were -THE WITNESS: Sorry, I was in the 89 academy class, I graduated in 2000. BY MR. CROSKERY: Q Oh, the 89th class? I'm sorry. Okay. I 16 you've had your deposition taken. My guess is the rules 16 was going to say you looked remarkably young, but that's 17 haven't changed very much, and you've had a chance to discuss 17 fine. 2000 was the class that you graduated in, and it was 18 with your counsel what they are. 18 class number 89? Basically I'll be asking questions, 19 19 A Correct. Q Okay. So starting with 2000 and after 20 you're answering them under oath. The court reporter on my 20 21 right and your left is taking down everything that each of us 21 you graduated from the Police Academy, if you could briefly 22 says. 22 take me through your history with the Police Department, I 23 would appreciate it. It is important if there is some question 23 24 that I have that I don't phrase well, you don't understand, 24 25 just let me know, and I will be happy to rephrase it. Can 25 A Out of the academy, I was assigned to District 5. From District 5 I went to District 3. From Page 7 1 2 3 you do that for me? Page 9 1 A Yes. 2 Q Also, you're doing so fine so far, just 3 4 answer yes or no instead of uh-huh or huh-uh, so we get a 4 5 clear record. Can you do that? 5 6 A Yes, sir. 6 7 Q If at any time you need a break, let me 7 8 know and we will take a break as soon as we finish whatever 9 series of questions I'm on. Fair enough? 10 11 12 8 9 A Okay. 10 Q Are you under any medication today that 11 would interfere with you giving truthful, accurate testimony? 12 13 A No. 13 14 Q Do you know of any other reason why you 14 15 could not give truthful and accurate testimony today? 15 16 A No. 16 17 Q What is your current job? 17 18 A I am an investigator assigned to the 18 19 Internal Investigations Section. 19 20 Q And how long have you held that position? 20 21 A Four years. 21 22 Q I'm assuming that you've gone through a 22 23 Police Academy? 23 24 A Yes, sir. 24 25 Q Which one? 25 District 3 I went to Criminal Investigation Section. And from Criminal Investigation Section I went to Internal. Q Can you give me the approximate dates that you were in District 5? A 2000 to 2005. Q District 3? A 2005 to -- I'm not sure, sir. I don't -Q Well, give me your best approximation. A I think I was in District 2 for about two years. Q Did you say District 2? A Or District 3 for about two years. Sorry. Q So roughly 2007? The records would show exactly -A Correct. Q -- but you had a couple of years there, and then you went to the Criminal Investigation Section -A Correct. Q -- I believe you said? What was that under, is that under headquarters or -A I don't understand your question. Q Each part of the Police Department is supervised by somebody. It is either directly under the Chief or directly under a Lieutenant Colonel, who was it 3 (Pages 6 to 9) Fitch Reporting, Inc. 800-569-7888 Case: 1:17-cv-00608-WOB-KLL Doc #: 37 Filed: 10/24/19 Page: 4 of 22 PAGEID #: 539 Page 10 1 2 under? A Page 12 1 So at that time Criminal Investigation do you take the initiative and do things on your own? A 2 I'm sorry. I'm still not sure what you 3 Section would have been under the Investigative Assistant 3 4 Chief, and I do not recall who that was at that time. 4 Q Well, let me give you an example. 5 A Okay. Q In this case, I have taken the 5 6 7 8 9 10 Q Okay. Approximately, what years were you there in the Criminal Investigation Section? A 6 I was there for about twelve years. So, 2007 until 2015 maybe. I'm not sure. Q mean. Well, that would match up, because you said you had been with your current job for about four years? 7 depositions of, oh, approximately eight people, I think. 8 A Okay. 9 Q And in those, every single person I have 10 talked to has said that they're not aware of a case beyond 11 A Correct. 11 someone's recruitment records where a police officer's former 12 Q All right. During any of the roles that 12 military records, medical records have been obtained. 13 you have mentioned before you were in the Criminal 13 In this case, Jason Cotterman's former 14 Investigation Section, did you work with Jason Cotterman? 14 military Marine medical records end up being obtained by the 15 A No. 15 Cincinnati Police Department. And so far in the depositions 16 Q Have you had any encounters with Jason 16 I've talked to people about, no one has a recollection of how that happened. 17 Cotterman during any of the time that you've been in the 17 18 Police Department, apart from the investigation that we're 18 19 here today about? Have you worked with him? 19 you had information on it. So, that's the kind of thing I'm talking about. 20 A No, sir. I have not worked with him. 20 21 Q Have you socialized with him? 21 22 A No, sir. 22 23 Q Did you know who he was? 23 24 A No, sir. 24 25 Q Okay. So it turns out that in your role 25 However, in discovery, we were told that Were you directed to obtain those records or did you obtain them on your own? A I was not directed to obtain records, Q All right. Tell me how it came about sir. Page 11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 of doing an investigation, you ended up doing some search warrants and so forth on Jason's case. Before we get to those, I want to find out a little bit more about what your role typically is as an investigator. A Okay. Q Give me your job duties. A My job duties at Internal? Q Yes. A So, I am the PO assigned to the Internal Investigation Section, so I would handle any civilian cases, and then I would also assist the Sergeants with their investigations. Q So is it fair to say that you obtained direction from someone about what you're supposed to do before you do it, you don't take the initiative and just do investigations on your own? A I do not do investigations on my own. Q And if you're told to do an investigation and you have something that is out of the ordinary, is that something that you would check out with the supervisor? A Okay. Can you repeat those questions, because there was three? Q If there is something out of the ordinary in an investigation that you encounter, do you routinely clarify what your instructions are with your supervisor, or Page 13 1 that you obtained those records. A 2 Through the course of the investigation, 3 there was allegations that Jason Cotterman had special 4 military background, that he was a sniper, Special Ops type 5 thing. 6 7 Q Who told you that Jason Cotterman had been a sniper or in Special Ops? 8 A Sir, I do not remember who said it. 9 Q Well, was it one of your supervisors? 10 A No, sir. 11 Q So you heard a rumor that Jason Cotterman 12 had been in Special Ops or was a sniper? 13 A Yes. 14 Q Did he ever fulfill the role of sniper, 15 that is, was he a designated sniper for the Marines, or was 16 sniper just an additional skill identifier on his record? 17 A What do you mean? 18 Q Well, I mean, when you say sniper, it can 19 mean two things. One, there is a designated person from a 20 rifle platoon or from a company or battalion that can be 21 designated as sniper, that is their role is to fill the role 22 of sniper, or there can be someone who just happens to be a 23 good shot, a really good shot who is trained to use a sniper 24 rifle and gets an additional skill identifier of sniper 25 marksman. 4 (Pages 10 to 13) Fitch Reporting, Inc. 800-569-7888 Case: 1:17-cv-00608-WOB-KLL Doc #: 37 Filed: 10/24/19 Page: 5 of 22 PAGEID #: 540 Page 14 Which was it in Mr. Cotterman's case? 1 1 referring to. 2 A 3 military record. 3 was interviewed up in Fairfield took it upon himself to Q 4 contact the Internal Investigations Section? 4 I do not recall either being in his Page 16 2 So I want to make sure I understand this Q So you're saying that the individual who 5 correctly, based on something that someone said, you don't 5 6 remember who said it, but it was not one of your supervisors, 6 7 you decided it was important to get Jason's military medical 7 Q Right. I understand. 8 records because he was in Special Operations and/or was a 8 A -- was concerned with things that Jason 9 sniper, correct? 9 A So what I'm saying is, the person who conducted the interview with Jason Cotterman -- Cotterman told him, and he contacted the Internal 10 A That's not correct. 10 Investigation Section of the Cincinnati Police to report what 11 Q Then tell me what happened. 11 was said in that interview. 12 A Through the investigation, trying to 12 Q Did he contact the Internal 13 clarify or confirm that he had special training through a 13 Investigations Section, or did he contact the Police 14 Special Op or being a sniper, if it was reasonable that he 14 Department and get referred to the Internal Investigations 15 could follow through with threats that he had made. 15 Section? 16 A 17 Q All right. Did you speak with him? 18 A Yes. I understand you don't remember his name 16 17 Q Okay. And I think we're getting somewhere. So, let's start with this. What was the threat that he had made? 18 A During an interview with a Pension Board, I don't know that answer. 19 Q 20 I don't exactly know what his title was, he had made some 20 at the moment. 21 threats, broad threats to members of the Cincinnati Police 21 A I do not. 22 Department to cause them harm. 22 Q Was there an incident report that had 19 23 Q Really? What did he say? 23 been taken? 24 A I do not remember verbatim what was said. 24 A Yes. 25 Q But you're certain that he threatened to 25 Q Did you review the incident report? Page 15 1 2 cause harm to members of the Cincinnati Police Department? A MR. GAGE: Mr. Croskery, can we take just 3 4 Yes, sir. a minute? Page 17 1 A Through Fairfield Police Department? 2 Q Yes. 3 A Yes. 4 Q Did the incident report state that Jason made threats towards Cincinnati Police Department members? 5 MR. CROSKERY: Sure. 5 6 MR. GAGE: Give us a moment. Can we go 6 A I do not recall what it said. 7 Q Well, in any case, you put in your -- in 7 off the record? MR. CROSKERY: Go off the record. 8 9 (Whereupon, the deposition was recessed at 8 your search warrant that you requested, that Jason had 9 committed a violation -- that there -- I'm sorry -- that 10 9:55 a.m.) 10 there was evidence of a violation of 2903.21 of aggravated 11 (Whereupon, the deposition was reconvened at 11 menacing. Do you remember that? 12 9:58 a.m.) 12 13 BY MR. CROSKERY: 13 14 15 16 Q I understand from your attorney that you wanted to clarify something? A Yes, sir. So, the investigation that I'm there, Counsel? 15 Q MS. BISSINGER: No copy for me? MR. CROSKERY: I'm sorry. referring to is when Cincinnati Police got a complaint from a 17 third party who was -- his office was in Fairfield, he was 18 19 something to do with the Pension Board. 19 with Jason Cotterman, things that were said in that interview 21 22 were concerning to that individual. He contacted the 22 23 Internal Investigations Section, and that is where my 23 24 involvement came in. 24 That's the investigation that I was MR. GAGE: That's okay, I will share with you. THE WITNESS: Oh, I forgot about this. 20 21 25 Let me show it to you. 16 18 There was an interview that he conducted I did not write a search warrant. MR. GAGE: What are you referring to 14 17 20 A 25 BY MR. CROSKERY: Q Take as much time as you need to look it over and let me know when you're ready to talk about it. A I am reading over this. I did not even remember that I wrote a search warrant, sir. 5 (Pages 14 to 17) Fitch Reporting, Inc. 800-569-7888 Case: 1:17-cv-00608-WOB-KLL Doc #: 37 Filed: 10/24/19 Page: 6 of 22 PAGEID #: 541 Page 18 1 Q Now that you have looked at this, though, Page 20 1 members of the Cincinnati Police Department. 2 does it refresh your recollection that you did indeed write a 2 3 search warrant? 3 2nd of 2015, you used this search warrant with the 4 A Yes, sir. 4 investigation -- with the basis that is here on these two 5 Q And if I'm reading it correctly, it 5 pages to seek information from Facebook in California, 6 appears that the basis upon which you were doing the search 6 correct? 7 warrant was Section 2903.21 of the Ohio Revised Code, which 7 A Correct. 8 is aggravated menacing, correct? 8 Q All right. And when you did that, how 9 A Correct. Q Now, assuming that Jason Cotterman did 9 Q All right. So, in any case, on November did Facebook respond? 10 A I do not recall. 11 make a threat towards Cincinnati Police Department members, 11 Q Well, essentially gave you access to his 12 can you tell me why that would fall within aggravated 12 account, right? 13 menacing, which appears to me at least on its face to refer 13 A Okay. 14 to making a threat towards the individual with whom he was 14 Q I mean, I know that Facebook -- 15 interviewing? 15 16 A Okay. So, what is your question? 16 17 Q Well, you told me earlier -- 17 18 A Yes. 18 the stuff out that you wanted and send it to you. They gave Q -- that you were doing an investigation 10 MS. BISSINGER: If you recall. She just said she didn't recall. Q Well, Facebook didn't go through and pick 19 you access to his account and then you went through and 20 based upon the fact that Jason Cotterman had made threats 20 looked at what you wanted and printed it out, correct? 21 towards Cincinnati Police Department members. And we have 21 22 here a window into what your thoughts were at the time that 22 23 you were doing the search warrant, because you say that 23 24 you're doing a search warrant, which is part of your 24 be? I assume this is not the first Facebook request you've 25 investigation, because Jason had committed the crime of 25 ever made in a search warrant? 19 A I don't recall. I do not remember what they -Q What would your pattern or habit normally Page 19 1 2 aggravated menacing; can we agree on that? Page 21 1 A Correct. A Yes. 2 Q And the ones that you've done in the Q Possibly, that that is what you were 3 past, has Facebook ever gone through and cherry picked what 4 basing it on, then you were kind enough to restate the 4 it thought you wanted, or have they just given you access to 5 statute inside your search warrant here, correct? 5 the account? 3 6 A Yes. 6 7 Q All right. So can you show me where in 7 A Not full access to the account. I've been given access in timeframes. 8 the statute there is something that says a threat to other 8 Q Okay. 9 people that are not connected with the person that he was 9 A I haven't been just given access to their 10 interviewing with would come under the statute of aggravated 10 11 menacing? 11 12 A I'm not sure what your question is, but I entire account. Q I understand that. And when you've been 12 given access in timeframes, has Facebook gone through and 13 state here on the second page that the Fire Pension Board 13 picked out what was supposed to be in it, or have you gone 14 reported that Cotterman made verbal threats of serious 14 into that timeframe yourself, looked at it and printed out 15 physical harm directed at several members of the Cincinnati 15 what you wanted? 16 Police Department. The threats are believed to stem from his 16 A It would be case by case. 17 pending criminal and disciplinary investigation. 17 Q Has there ever been a case where Facebook 18 Q Well, I haven't seen that in the incident 18 gave you particular information that you sought? 19 report, which I've got. But did you then say that it was 19 A Yes. 20 something verbal that was said that was not recorded in the 20 Q And that was when you gave specific 21 incident report? 21 requests that you wanted everything that happened on a 22 certain day or -- 22 A What I said was I don't recall what is in 23 the incident report. What the Pension Board guy reported was 23 24 that Jason Cotterman made verbal threats to cause harm, 24 would give like who was the user of that Facebook account, A Well, for instance, specifically they 25 verbal threats of serious physical harm directed at several 25 that would be specific information given. 6 (Pages 18 to 21) Fitch Reporting, Inc. 800-569-7888 Case: 1:17-cv-00608-WOB-KLL Doc #: 37 Filed: 10/24/19 Page: 7 of 22 PAGEID #: 542 Page 22 Q Right. And in this case, you knew that Page 24 1 Q How about the next page, Page 20? 2 Jason Karambit was an alias for Jason Cotterman, so you got 2 A No. 3 that. But what I'm talking about is -- well, let's just look 3 Q We can agree that Page 20 has a 4 at the pages -- from Page 5 -- Exhibit 29, Page 5 through 4 5 Exhibit 29, Page 44. 1 6 7 8 photograph of an automatic pistol, correct? 5 A I will agree to that. A I don't have a Page 44. 6 Q All right. Had Jason, when he made these Q Right. Of those, did Facebook give you 7 so-called threats towards members of the Cincinnati Police 8 Department, was he in possession of a pistol at that time? access to those? 9 A Hold on. What did you say? 10 Q As you go, let's just take Page 11 for a 11 minute. 9 A I don't know that answer. 10 Q Let's talk about Exhibit 29, Page 34. 11 Again, the page number at the bottom. 12 A Okay. Let me -- Page 11 or -- 12 A Okay. 13 Q Exhibit 29, Page 11, it's a photograph. 13 Q Can you tell me what the relevance of 14 A Okay. 14 another picture of Jason's wife, actually the same picture, 15 would be to this investigation? MR. GAGE: For clarification, Counsel, 15 16 when you refer to a page number, are you referring 16 A No. 17 to the number at the bottom in blue? 17 Q Well, assuming just for the sake of 18 Q 18 argument that you're the one that picked out what you wanted Yes. It will say Exhibit 29, then there is a space and then there is a number. 19 to print off out of this account, because I will represent to 20 A Okay. 20 you there is an awful lot more that is in the account between 21 Q So I'm looking at Page 11 of Exhibit 29. 21 these dates than what you printed off here, did you have any 22 A Okay. 22 criteria that you were using in deciding what was relevant 23 Q This, for example, is a photograph. 23 and what was not relevant to your aggravated menacing -- 24 A Okay. 24 25 Q I will represent to you it's a photograph 25 19 A I don't recall -MR. GAGE: I'm going to object that I Page 23 Page 25 believe she testified that she doesn't recall 1 of Jason's wife. 1 2 A Okay. 2 whether it was her that actually printed stuff off. 3 Q Now, did you go through the account and 3 Q pull this out as somehow relevant to your investigation? 4 the question with saying, assuming for the moment that you 5 picked it out? 4 5 6 A I do not recall what I pulled out or what was given from Facebook. I will represent to you that Jason's 7 8 Facebook page or feed has literally hundreds of photographs, 8 9 hundreds of photographs, and some of them are his wife and 9 7 10 Q 6 some are others. 11 12 of Jason's wife would be relevant to an aggravated menacing 12 13 investigation against members of the Cincinnati Police 13 14 Department? 14 15 A No, I cannot. 15 16 Q Well, let's go through -- first of all, 16 I will not assume that, because I don't recall if I did that or not. Q Well, there is two possibilities, either somebody furnished it to you or you picked it out? MS. BISSINGER: There is more than that. 10 Can you tell me why that, that photograph 11 A She did say that, which is why I prefaced I mean, her boss could have picked it out. MR. CROSKERY: Well, that's true. MS. BISSINGER: I mean, there is a myriad of possibilities. BY MR. CROSKERY: Q Well, let's go back to the way that you normally do these search warrants then. 17 do you recall as you sit here, whether or not you obtained 17 18 anything in the Facebook warrant that corroborated that there 18 19 had been threats made by Jason Cotterman towards members of 19 obtained material from -- obtained access to an account from 20 the Cincinnati Police Department? 20 Facebook and instead of you as the investigator going through Has there ever been a time that you've 21 A No, I do not. 21 and picking out what you wanted, that one of your bosses 22 Q Let's go to Page 29 -- or Page 19, 22 decided that he or she would do it? 23 Exhibit 29. Page 19. Can you tell me what the relevance of 23 A He or she would do what? 24 this is to the investigation? 24 Q Would do, would pick out what information 25 A No. 25 he or she, being your supervisor, thought was relevant to the 7 (Pages 22 to 25) Fitch Reporting, Inc. 800-569-7888 Case: 1:17-cv-00608-WOB-KLL Doc #: 37 Filed: 10/24/19 Page: 8 of 22 PAGEID #: 543 Page 26 Page 28 1 investigation and print it out and hand it to you, and say 1 2 this is what is relevant? 2 A 3 4 There's been situations where my bosses have looked at stuff from my search warrants, but -- 3 4 A I was the one that took it to him to have it signed. Q That's what I'm asking. You were there, and did Judge Ruehlman ask you what the reliable source was? 5 A I do not recall. 6 instead of you, that is to say your boss says, I'm going to 6 Q Well, let's look at what you requested. 7 take this over, you sent the search warrant in, but I'm the 7 On Page 2 at the bottom you say, "obtaining this information 8 one that wants to look through the account, see what is 8 is necessary to determine the legitimate ownership of the 9 relevant and pull it out. 9 items in question, or is in some manner directly related to 10 the offense I'm investigating. Therefore, I am requesting Q 5 Of course. But I'm saying, have done it Has that situation ever happened? 10 11 A I don't know. 11 authority to review, or to direct the review of this data to 12 Q You don't remember? 12 determine if it is related to the offense under 13 A I don't know. I don't know if that's 13 investigation. Should it be determined that this data is not 14 related to the offense under investigation, I shall direct 15 that no disclosure of the contents of this data shall be made." 14 happened before or not. Q 15 So in other words, during the time that 16 you've been doing these Facebook searches, it could have 16 17 happened or it could not, and you can't tell me as you sit 17 18 here; is that right? 18 A Yes. 19 Q You then state at the end that, "As soon A 19 Correct. I've been doing search warrants Did I read that correctly? 20 probably for 15 years now. I cannot remember if there's been 20 as can reasonably be done, that item(s) no longer required 21 a time when a supervisor has went through and pulled stuff 21 for the purpose of analysis, or preservation of evidence will 22 out or not. 22 be returned to the party from whom it was seized after 23 approval of the court," correct? Q 23 It's fair to say as you sit here today, 24 that during the past four years when you've been working in 24 A That's what it says. 25 the Internal Investigation Section, however, you cannot 25 Q All right. And specifically what you Page 27 Page 29 1 were -- if I understand your Affidavit correctly, what you 2 A True. 2 are asking for permission to preserve was content of incoming 3 Q And it's fair to say that as you sit here 3 and outgoing communications, subscriber information, friends, 1 remember such an incident, true? 4 today, you can't tell me, since you don't remember even 4 stored messages in media or video, IP address history, and 5 issuing this warrant to start with, whether or not you 5 log-in information and passwords that related to the offenses 6 initiated it on your own or whether or not you were directed 6 up above, correct? 7 to; is that right? 7 A 8 October 30th. 8 A Initiated the search warrant? Q Yes. In other words, whose decision was From the dates of October 22nd through 9 Q 10 it? Was it a supervisor saying, you know what, let's look at 10 A Yes. 11 his Facebook page, or was it that you decided, I think it 11 Q So for those six days that you looked at, 12 would be a good idea to look at his Facebook page? 9 Correct. 12 24 through 30 -- those seven days that you looked at it, was 13 A I don't know that answer. 13 this the sum total of everything that Facebook provided, or 14 Q On Page 2 of the search warrant, you 14 do you know? 15 indicate that investigators received information from a 15 A I don't know. 16 reliable source that Cotterman's posted statements regarding 16 Q But you were representing that the 17 the aggravated menacing offense on social media. 17 information that you would preserve was that relating to the Do you recall what the reliable source 18 offense, or the alleged offenses that you mentioned above, 19 correct? 18 19 was? A For that date period, from October 22nd 20 A No. 20 21 Q Do you recall why the source was 21 22 reliable? 23 A No. 23 evidence that you would preserve was not everything in the 24 Q Were you present in the request to Judge 24 world that was in his Facebook account for those dates, but 25 that information that related to the offenses that he was 25 22 Ruehlman that this search warrant be granted? to October 30th. Q Right. You were representing that the 8 (Pages 26 to 29) Fitch Reporting, Inc. 800-569-7888 Case: 1:17-cv-00608-WOB-KLL Doc #: 37 Filed: 10/24/19 Page: 9 of 22 PAGEID #: 544 Page 30 1 2 3 4 being accused of up above, correct? A 1 I don't necessarily know if that is correct. I don't -- what are you specifically asking me? Q Page 32 Well, I'm really asking you -- well, says to somebody else. 2 A Okay. 3 Q And you weren't there when Jason said it, 4 correct? 5 first of all, we've already agreed that you can't give me a 5 A 6 relationship of much that is in the back of this preserved 6 Q 7 evidence from those seven days to the particular offenses. 7 I'm wondering why it's in this file at 8 9 10 all. Why are there pictures of his wife on a couple of different pages? MS. BISSINGER: Objection. Asked and 11 MS. BISSINGER: You talk a lot, but you don't ask questions, and sometimes it seems like questions. So objection. answered. She doesn't know. 12 Q 13 is allowed to interpose an objection. Well, it might be -- well, I'm giving the 11 13 14 Q foundation. I'm explaining -- 10 12 Well, you can answer the question. She So to you it's hearsay? MS. BISSINGER: Objection. 8 9 Correct. MR. CROSKERY: All right. Can we go off the record for a second? 14 15 A Can you ask the question again? 15 16 Q Sure. Why, since you're representing, 16 (Off-the-record discussion.) BY MR. CROSKERY: 17 you're making the representation here to the Court, you go to 17 18 the Court and say I want evidence that relates to these 18 material that is in the search warrant, Exhibit 29, with 19 offenses, I think Facebook has it, these are the specific 19 anyone in your department? 20 categories that I want, this is the stuff that I'm going to 20 A Not specifically, no. I don't. 21 preserve. 21 Q Routinely, did you have briefs on what But what is in this file is a lot of 22 Q Do you recall discussing any of the 22 was coming about -- that's not a good way to put it. Scratch that question. 23 stuff that, at least according to you, and according to me as 23 24 I look at it, does not appear to have relevance to those 24 25 items that you've outlined that are important in 25 Who was your supervisor for the Cotterman investigation? Page 31 1 investigating this offense. 3 4 5 A 1 So first of all, I want to know why 2 Page 33 they're there at all? 2 I do not remember who the Commander was at the time, because I think it switched. Q 3 Was it Captain Mack that was working with A I don't know. 4 you, at that time it would have been Lieutenant Mack, I Q Okay. And second, I want to know whether 5 think? 6 or not there was any effort made with this, by you, that you 6 7 can recollect, to find evidence that corroborated these 7 8 offenses? 8 Q Who did they switch from? 9 A Lieutenant Gregoire was there at one 9 A I don't know. 10 Q Did you get any evidence at all that you 10 A At some point, but the Commanders switched, and I don't recall when. point, Lieutenant Mack was there at one point. 11 used -- now, the next thing is, I think we can agree that the 11 Q Switched from Gregoire to Mack, right? 12 Fairfield -- the Fairfield Police Department where this 12 A I don't know. I do not remember. 13 interview happened is not within your jurisdiction, correct? 13 Q Okay. But from Mack to Gregoire then? 14 A Correct. 14 A I don't know. I don't remember. 15 Q So what you're investigating is not what 15 Q She doesn't know either way. So, well, 16 happened between Jason Cotterman and some interviewer up in 16 regardless whether it was Mack or Gregoire, were you giving 17 the Fairfield Police Department, it is a hearsay threat that 17 updates on the investigation to your supervisor? 18 he is going to do specific harm of some sort to Cincinnati 18 A Yes. 19 Police Department officers, correct? 19 Q All right. How often would those updates 20 A I don't understand how that is hearsay, 20 have taken place? 21 when the threat was made to the Pension Board guy, and he 21 A I don't know. 22 called Internal to report that. 22 Q Well, would it have been at least once a 23 Q Well, it's hearsay. The question is 23 week? 24 whether or not it's admissible hearsay, but we don't need to 24 A I don't know. 25 get down into the weeds on that. Hearsay is what somebody 25 Q At least once a month? 9 (Pages 30 to 33) Fitch Reporting, Inc. 800-569-7888 Case: 1:17-cv-00608-WOB-KLL Doc #: 37 Filed: 10/24/19 Page: 10 of 22 PAGEID #: 545 Page 34 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A I don't know. Q Do you remember at least one update with each one of them; is that right? A Each one of who? Q Mack and Gregoire? A I don't know. Q Do you remember at least one Mack or either Mack, or either one? MS. BISSINGER: Objection. Q Do you remember giving one update at least for either Lieutenant Mack or Lieutenant Gregoire? A I don't know. They were the Commander of the unit. Q Okay. So when you told me that you gave updates earlier? A Uh-huh. Q Which is it, do you just not know whether you gave updates, would you routinely -A Who would you like the updates to, my Commander or who my supervisor was? Q Your supervisor, let's start with that. A That would be Sergeant McCurley. Q Okay. So did you update Sergeant McCurley? A Yes. Page 36 1 2 about one of these cases. A An example, maybe, whatever, if there was 3 a return from Facebook, I would have given him that 4 information. 5 Q So as you sit here today, is it fair to 6 say that you don't remember any details about any update that 7 you gave to Sergeant McCurley? 8 9 10 A Correct. I didn't even remember that I wrote the search warrant. Q And so it would also be fair to say that 11 you don't remember whether or not you updated Lieutenant Mack 12 or Lieutenant Gregoire, whichever one it was? 13 14 15 A I don't know if I did specifically. No, I do not remember. Q Do you remember whether or not there was 16 any particular interest in Jason Cotterman's case from 17 Lieutenant Mack or Lieutenant Gregoire? 18 19 20 21 A I don't know that answer. I mean, I'm sure there was, but I don't -- I don't know. Q Well, do you remember whether or not Lieutenant Colonel Bailey talked to you about the case? 22 A I don't know. 23 Q You don't know whether you remember? Did 24 25 you -- I want to make sure that I understand your answer. A I do not remember speaking to Dave Bailey Page 35 Page 37 1 Q How frequently did you update -- 1 2 A I don't know. 2 3 Q Was it at least once a week? 3 want to make sure we have clarity on the record, and your in reference to this case. I don't remember. Q I'm not trying to harass you. I just 4 A I don't know. 4 testimony is you don't remember. Well, maybe we will get 5 Q Was it once a month? 5 some help from looking at Exhibit 30. 6 A I don't know. 6 7 Q Was it at least once every quarter? 7 Exhibit 30. If you take a look at Exhibit 30, I think you I will hand you what's been marked as 8 A I don't know. 8 will find this is an earlier search warrant that was filed on 9 Q Was there at least one update to Sergeant 9 March 26th of 2015, seeking certain text messages, and it was 10 McCurley? 10 filed by Sergeant McCurley. Do you see that? 11 A Yes. 11 A I do. 12 Q Was there more than one? 12 Q Do you remember whether or not you had 13 A I don't know. 13 Q What do you recall about the update that 14 14 15 you gave to Sergeant McCurley? 15 ever seen this search warrant before? A I was not transferred to Internal until September of '15. 16 A I don't know. 16 17 Q What would have been your habit to update 17 was this -- the contents of this search warrant in the file 18 that you received, or do you know? 18 Sergeant McCurley on? 19 A My habit? 19 20 Q Yes. Would you have talked about the 20 21 items of significance, for example, that you found in search 21 22 warrants, would you have talked about what things that you 22 23 needed in order to pursue the investigation further? 23 24 25 Just give me a typical example of a type of progress report that you would give to your supervisor Q A When you were transferred to Internal, I didn't receive a file. I don't know what file you're talking about. Q I would be talking about the investigation file on Sergeant Cotterman. A The investigation that I was involved in 24 was the one that stemmed from the conversation with the 25 Pension Board man. 10 (Pages 34 to 37) Fitch Reporting, Inc. 800-569-7888 Case: 1:17-cv-00608-WOB-KLL Doc #: 37 Filed: 10/24/19 Page: 11 of 22 PAGEID #: 546 Page 38 Q A 1 2 Okay. Fair enough. So I don't know what file you're talking Page 40 1 A Yes. 2 Q And you were putting things in that file, correct? 3 about. 3 4 Q So just to clarify what you're saying, the investigation file that I'm referring to is the file that you would have initiated, it sounds like, when you were assigned to do that investigation. You're telling me that you didn't have anything that was in the file that you assembled that came from the prior case involving Jason Cotterman? A I'm not even saying I assembled a file. I don't know what file you're talking about. Q I would be talking about the file -okay. Let's start over again then. When you decided that you were going to investigate Jason Cotterman for the offenses that are mentioned in this search warrant, what did you do with the information once you obtained it? A In what search warrant? Q Well, the search warrant we're talking about from you. A We have two. You have two in front of me. Which one you are you referring to? Q Let me finish the question. Exhibit 29? A Okay. 4 A Yes. 5 Q All right. So that's what I'm talking 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 6 about. I'm talking about Jason Cotterman's investigative 7 file. I'm talking about the file that you were putting 8 things into related to this investigation. 9 A Relating to the aggravated menacing? 10 Q Correct. 11 A Okay. 12 Q And the other thing that you mention in 13 your search warrant. 14 A What other thing? 15 Q Well, you mention aggravated menacing, 16 and then you also on Page 2 talk about verbal threats, the 17 serious harm that dealt with the investigation. 18 Are you saying that the only thing that 19 you were interested in are things that pertain to the 20 aggravated menacing offense on Page 1? 21 A What the search warrant was written for 22 was anything from October 22nd to October 30th, including, 23 involving the incident with the Pension Board. 24 Q Correct. 25 A Correct. Page 39 Page 41 Q And specifically, those items that are 1 Q That's your search warrant? 1 2 A Correct. 2 violative of that law, or that shed light on violations of Q When you started out the investigation of 3 that law, correct? 3 4 Jason Cotterman for this incident involving a detective in 4 A For the aggravated menacing, yes. 5 Fairfield, you obtained information. You obtained 5 Q Correct. So there is not -- there is not 6 information from this search warrant, and I'm assuming that 6 another law that we're talking about here, that's the one 7 you also had notes, you also had interview notes? 7 that you're hanging your hat on, just to make sure? 8 A Correct. 8 9 Q You also had perhaps other paperwork? 9 10 A Okay. 10 11 Q So, I'm asking whether or not when you 11 12 assembled this information, you used any prior information 12 13 from the Police Department? A I'm not sure what you mean by hanging my hat on, but the search warrant was written for the aggravated menacing. Q All right. And only for the aggravated menacing? 13 A Yes. A I'm not sure I even know what you mean. 14 Q All right. And that is one of the things 15 Q Do you use files in Internal 15 that was in the brown file that was kept by the Cincinnati 16 Investigations? 16 Police Department related to the investigation that you were 17 A 17 doing, correct? 14 18 Are you talking about like a brown folder, like a file? 18 A Now, when you say kept, we no longer have 19 Q Yeah. 19 anything. It was sealed and sent to records. So when you 20 A Yeah, we do. 20 mean by kept, I don't -- we don't have anything. 21 Q Okay. Did you have a file on Jason 21 22 Cotterman pertaining to this investigation? Q Well, when you say sealed and sent to 22 records, you're talking about Cincinnati Police Department records, right? 23 A Personally, no, I did not. 23 24 Q All right. Did the Cincinnati Police 24 A Correct. 25 Q All right. So I think we better clarify 25 Department have one? 11 (Pages 38 to 41) Fitch Reporting, Inc. 800-569-7888 Case: 1:17-cv-00608-WOB-KLL Doc #: 37 Filed: 10/24/19 Page: 12 of 22 PAGEID #: 547 Page 42 Page 44 1 we. What I'm talking about is Cincinnati Police Department. 1 some sort of written report that lists the facts that the 2 When you send them to records, they don't disappear and get 2 investigating team or person has determined, and that is in a 3 shredded, unless someone directs they do, they're still 3 format of some sort; is it a Form 17? 4 within the Cincinnati Police Department. 4 A It could start with a Form 17. 5 Q Is there any prescribed format that is It's just you're saying it was no longer 5 in the Internal Investigations Section? 6 supposed to be used in giving these reports or facts to the 7 A Correct. 7 Chief? 8 Q All right. So when was the record of 8 6 9 this investigation sealed and sent to the -- 9 10 A I do not know. I don't know that answer. 10 11 Q It wasn't until after you were finished 11 12 with it, the Investigation Section, true? turned into the Police Chief. As far as a Form 17 goes, Form 17's are all throughout the department. They're not just -- they're just not specific to Internal. A I don't know when it was sent. 13 14 Q Did you make any recommendations based on 14 your investigation? When an Internal report is completed, if 12 13 15 A it's a report, it's an IIS summary, and that's what gets Q Oh, I didn't say it was specific to 15 Internal. I'm asking if that's what the normal way, if there 16 A What do you mean recommendations? 16 is a normal way, would be of reporting the facts to the 17 Q Well, you've been directed to do an 17 Chief? 18 investigation. 19 A 20 investigation. 21 Q 22 23 24 25 I've been directed to assist to do an Okay. So did you participate in making recommendations on the outcome of the investigation? A Internal doesn't make recommendations. Internal logs the facts and it gets -Q A 18 19 20 Q It could go on a what? 21 A IIS summary, the Internal Investigations 22 Summary. Q 23 24 And it becomes a report? It could go either way, sir. It could go on a Form 17, it could go on an IIS summary. Is the IIS summary also on some sort of prescribed form number? A 25 No. Page 43 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Correct. Q All right. A I'm not sure what recommendation you're talking about. Q All right. So forget about the recommendation part. Were you the one who wrote the final report regarding the investigation? A No. Q Who wrote the report? A I don't know. Q And so I can make sure we're talking about the same thing, when you say final report, is there a particular form number that is used? A No. I don't know what final report you're referring to. I didn't write a final report. I don't know. Q When you do an investigation, and you're, as you say, simply reporting the facts? A Uh-huh. Q Let's start with this, to whom are you reporting the facts? A To the Police Chief. Q All right. So if I understand you correctly, the outcome of the investigation that you do is Page 45 1 2 Q So that would simply be typed sheets with to, through subject, that type of thing? 3 A There is a format on it. 4 Q All right. Where is the format for these 5 reports listed? Is it a regulation, is it a guidance that is 6 written by the Commander of the Internal Investigations Unit? Where would I look if I wanted to find 7 8 out, what is the format for giving a report of facts to the 9 Chief? 10 A It's on the Internal hard drive. 11 Q So comes the day when you need to write a 12 report to the Chief? 13 A Yes. 14 Q You go to the Internal hard drive, and 15 you look up, maybe copy something? I don't want to put words 16 in your mouth. Tell me how you go about putting together 17 18 19 this report for the Chief when you do it. A So I would pull up an IIS Summary, list 20 all the interviews, facts of the investigation, whatever else 21 is important, and send it through the chain. 22 Q All right. So the sections that would be 23 in it, in a typical report like this would be what, would it 24 be an introduction? 25 A Introduction, interviews, summary, 12 (Pages 42 to 45) Fitch Reporting, Inc. 800-569-7888 Case: 1:17-cv-00608-WOB-KLL Doc #: 37 Filed: 10/24/19 Page: 13 of 22 PAGEID #: 548 Page 46 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 additional items. That might be it. I'm not sure. Q Do you recall whether or not you ever saw the report that went to the Chief on this investigation? A I don't know. Q Were you given input on it? A What investigation, on the aggravated menacing? Q Yes. That's what we're talking about. A I don't know. I don't know if I saw it or not. Q Are these reports that go to the Chief signed by somebody? A Yes. Q And it's your belief as you sit here, that you did not sign the one that went to the Chief in Cotterman's case; is that right? A I wouldn't have signed it. It would have been the Commander of Internal. Q So the one that signed the report would be whoever the Commander was at that time? A Correct. Q But typically since he did not do the investigative work or most of it, it would not be the Commander of Internal that wrote these reports; is that correct? Page 48 1 military medical records. Now, you've been identified by the 2 City as the person to have knowledge on how that happened in 3 a series of Interrogatories. So let me just ask you this: What is 4 5 your recollection about how those records were obtained? A 6 I called someone and asked if it was 7 possible to confirm through military records if Cotterman was 8 a sniper or had Special Op training. 9 Q Who did you call? 10 A His name is Matt DeBlaugh, DeBlaugh. 11 Q D-E? 12 A I don't know. 13 Q And where was Matt DeBlaugh located? 14 A The FBI here locally. 15 Q What did Mr. DeBlaugh tell you? 16 A That he would get back to me. 17 Q Did he get back to you? 18 A He did. 19 Q What did he tell you? 20 A I went and picked up records. 21 Q Picked up from where? 22 A From Matt DeBlaugh. Q On Fourth Street? Which office did you A I don't remember that. 23 24 25 go to? Page 47 Page 49 1 A Correct. 1 2 Q All right. When you write these reports, 2 3 does the Commander of the Internal sometimes have questions 3 4 or suggestions as to how the report should be changed before 4 5 it goes up to the Chief? 6 7 Q Did you just ask for records that confirmed whether or not Jason Cotterman was a sniper? A I asked for military records to confirm if he was a sniper or had Special Ops training. 5 Q Did you ask for his whole file? A Yes. 6 A I asked for military records, that's what Q So what I would infer is, someone like 7 8 you or Sergeant McCurley writes up the basic part of the 8 9 report, it goes up to the Commander for review, the Commander 9 I asked for. Q Did you use any paperwork to record this request to the FBI? 10 looks at it, then if something more needs to be done, he 10 A No. 11 calls the writer of the report in to discuss it? 11 Q How did you happen to know Matt DeBlaugh? I got his name through another party. 12 A Yes. 12 A 13 Q All right. And at that point, you follow 13 Q What other party gave you his name? A A.J. Warner. 14 the Commander's recommendations to include whatever was 14 15 missing or -- and then send it back up for filing and 15 Q Who is A.J. Warner? 16 signature and submission; is that correct? 16 A He is an FBI agent in Chicago that is a 17 A Yes. 17 18 Q Okay. Have there been times when an 18 Q former Cincinnati policeman. How did you happen to know A.J. Warner? 19 investigation was initiated, but there's been direction to 19 A He is a former Cincinnati policeman. 20 not do a final report and to just drop it? 20 Q I heard that, but you don't know all the 21 A I have no idea. 21 22 Q Has that ever happened that you can 22 23 recall? 23 former Cincinnati policemen, I'm assuming. Did you have any sort of relationship with him, had you worked together with him? 24 A Not that I'm aware of. 24 A Yes. 25 Q All right. Let's talk about Jason's 25 Q Tell me about that. When did you and Mr. 13 (Pages 46 to 49) Fitch Reporting, Inc. 800-569-7888 Case: 1:17-cv-00608-WOB-KLL Doc #: 37 Filed: 10/24/19 Page: 14 of 22 PAGEID #: 549 Page 50 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Warner work together? A I don't know what specific year, sir. I don't even remember what year he left. I don't know. Q What department was he in with you? A He was in Criminal Investigation Section. Q And he was not in Internal with you, correct? A No. Q All right. But you still had his phone number? A Yes. Q Were you directed by anybody in the Cincinnati Police Department to try to get Jason's military records? A No. Q When you obtained these records from the FBI, what did you do with them? A Turned them over to a supervisor in Internal. Q Who was the supervisor to whom you turned them over? A I do not remember. I don't remember who it was at the time. Q What are the possibilities, how many supervisors did you have in Internal? Page 52 1 there. What is the question number one? Q 2 3 Right now, do you -- can you tell me what Marine Special Operations is? 4 A No. 5 Q All right. Did you know back then when 6 you initiated the search, what Marines Special Operations 7 was? 8 A No. 9 Q So are you certain when you talked to 10 Matt DeBlaugh that you simply said, I want to confirm whether 11 or not Mr. Cotterman has been a sniper or has been in Special 12 Operations or did you ask for more? 13 14 15 16 A I asked if he could confirm if he was a sniper or in Special Ops, that's all I asked for. Q All right. Is it your testimony that you did not ask for the records? 17 A For what records? 18 Q The records that you ended up getting. 19 Did you ask -- I may not have phrased that very well. Did you ask Mr. DeBlaugh, can you confirm 20 21 for me whether or not he was a sniper or whether or not he 22 was in Special Operations, or did you ask for the records 23 that dealt with whether he was a sniper or whether he was in 24 Special Ops? 25 A I asked for the military records to Page 51 A 1 2 3 4 5 McCurley at some point left, he got made Lieutenant. At some point Mike Whitis. Page 53 1 2 confirm if he was a sniper or in Special Ops. Q So then you picked up a couple hundred Q Could you spell that last name, please? 3 pages worth of medical records apparently from Matt DeBlaugh. A W-H-I-T-I-S. I don't -- I don't even -- 4 Did you go through those records? I don't remember who else it would have been. 5 A I picked up military records, I went 6 Q Could it have been Dave Sprogue? 6 through them. I don't know what medical records you're 7 A Dave Sprague, could have been. 7 speaking of. 8 Q Did you review the records before you 8 9 turned them over? 9 10 A I looked at them, yes. 10 11 Q Did they say anything about whether or 11 not Jason Cotterman was a sniper? Q I'm talking about the records that dealt with certain medical incidents that my client had. A That was in the medical -- in the military record? 12 Q 13 A I didn't see that confirmed. 13 A Okay. 14 Q Did it say anything about whether or not 14 Q So essentially you went through the 12 he was in Special Ops? Yes. 15 records and then turned them straight over to your 16 A Not that I saw. 16 supervisor, whoever it happened to be at the time; is that 17 Q What is Marine Special Ops? 17 correct? 18 A I don't know. 18 A Yes. 19 Q Well, did you look into what Marine 19 Q Did you do any write-up on your own of 15 20 Special Ops was before you went looking for his records to 20 21 find out that he had been accused of being a Marine Special 21 A No. 22 Ops? 22 Q Did you indicate to your supervisor, we In other words, is that something that 23 24 25 you knew at one point and have forgotten? A I don't -- there is like three questions what was in the records? 23 have a lot of things that have nothing to do with what I 24 asked for? 25 A No. 14 (Pages 50 to 53) Fitch Reporting, Inc. 800-569-7888 Case: 1:17-cv-00608-WOB-KLL Doc #: 37 Filed: 10/24/19 Page: 15 of 22 PAGEID #: 550 Page 54 Q But you did have a lot of things in those Page 56 1 or alternatively had been in Special Operations in the 2 records that had nothing to do with whether or not Mr. 2 Marines, he had already been in the Cincinnati Police 3 Cotterman was a sniper and whether or not he had been in 3 Department about 15 years, correct? 4 Special Operations, true? 4 A Yes. 5 Q And so can you explain to me why it would 1 MR. GAGE: Objection. 5 6 A 7 Q Is that a question? 6 have been important whether or not he had been designated as Yes. 7 an expert marksman in 1998, '99 or 2000, to your 8 investigation? MR. GAGE: Did you get my objection? 8 9 A What was the question? 10 Q The question was, you did see a lot of A 9 I thought it would be relevant to see if 10 he could follow through some of the threats that he had made against members of the Police Department. 11 things in the military records that you obtained from Mr. 11 12 DeBlaugh that had nothing to do with whether or not Jason 12 13 Cotterman was a sniper or whether or not he was in Special 13 following. Had he said that he was going to use his 14 Operations, true? 14 expertise as a sniper to pick somebody out from an ambush, 15 what was it that -- A 15 16 There was a lot of information in that military record, yes. Q 17 And a lot of it had nothing to do with Q I'm still having a little trouble 16 A I don't recall the specifics of it. 17 Q I think you already told me that you 18 whether or not he was a sniper and whether or not he was in 18 didn't even know what Special Operations was. So I'm 19 Special Ops, true? 19 guessing that you probably are not able to tell me why that 20 A True. 20 would be relevant to the threat? 21 Q So you had received records that were far 21 A If he had special training in some sort 22 more, far more broad than the narrow scope of what you had 22 of shooting or sniper type thing, that's what I was referring 23 asked for, correct? 23 to. 24 A Okay. 24 25 Q True? 25 Q Well, doesn't every single Cincinnati police officer go through marksmanship training and testing Page 55 Page 57 on a regular basis? 1 A Yeah. 1 2 Q So what did you do with all the records 2 A Not sniper training. 3 Q Do you have a SWAT team? 3 that were far beyond the scope of what you had asked for? A 4 5 As I indicated, I turned them over to a supervisor. Q 6 And when you did so, did you indicate, 4 A We do. 5 Q Does the SWAT team go through sniper 6 training? 7 look, I only asked for stuff that had to do with whether or 7 A I don't know. 8 not he was a sniper or whether or not he was in Special 8 Q Do you know what the difference is 9 Operations, but I received a lot of other materials from the 9 10 11 12 FBI? A received. MR. GAGE: Can we take a break whenever 13 14 I said here is the military record I you get to -MR. CROSKERY: Sure. We will take one 15 between sniper training and marksmanship training? 10 A I do not. 11 Q Do you know if there is a difference? 12 A I don't know. 13 Q So is there someone who told you that it 14 would be important to find out whether or not Jason Cotterman 15 had had sniper training, or is it something that you just decided on your own? 16 right now. 16 17 (Whereupon, the deposition was recessed at 17 A Nobody told me. 18 10:50 a.m.) 18 Q So you decided it on your own, correct? 19 (Whereupon, the deposition was reconvened at 19 A Yes. 20 11:10 a.m.) 20 Q So since you decided it on your own, to 21 BY MR. CROSKERY: 21 22 23 Q So I'm trying to understand your thinking a little bit in obtaining these records. 22 you, what is a sniper? A My understanding of who a sniper is, is 23 someone who gets like a special label through the military to be able to shoot targets from far away. 24 First of all, at the time that you were 24 25 looking for whether or not Jason Cotterman had been a sniper 25 Q Does the sniper use the same weapon as 15 (Pages 54 to 57) Fitch Reporting, Inc. 800-569-7888 Case: 1:17-cv-00608-WOB-KLL Doc #: 37 Filed: 10/24/19 Page: 16 of 22 PAGEID #: 551 Page 58 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the others? A Sir, I don't know. Q So why did you decide to call an FBI agent to get the records instead of just submitting a search warrant or a request for them through the military? A I contacted another investigative entity to see if it was even possible to confirm if he was or was not a sniper or Special Op from the military. So I contacted another police entity, which happens all the time in investigations. Q I'm sure it does. So when you -- when you contacted initially your friend that was a former Cincinnati police officer, you weren't asking him to get records, you were asking whether it was possible to obtain them; is that right? A No. That's not what I asked Warner. Q Okay. What did you ask Warner? A If there was somebody locally that he could give me the name of that I could contact. Q All right. That's fine. So, when you contacted Matt DeBlaugh, you weren't contacting him to actually get records, you were contacting him to see if it was possible to get them; is that right? A Correct. Q Did he tell you that he would see whether Page 60 1 A I don't know that answer, sir. 2 Q Did you ask Mr. -- 3 A No, I did not. 4 Q Let me finish the question, so it's clear 5 on the record. Did you ask Mr. DeBlaugh how he had 6 7 obtained those military records that he gave you in the 8 envelope? 9 A No. 10 Q Were there any markings on the envelope 11 that he gave you? Just a plain envelope? 12 A I don't recall. 13 Q Did you keep the envelope? 14 A I don't recall. 15 Q Did you put down in writing for anyone 16 such as your supervisor or the department, did you put down 17 in writing the process that you used to obtain these records? 18 A No. 19 Q Did you discuss with anyone in your 20 department the process that you used to obtain these records? 21 A I don't recall that. 22 Q When you gave the records to your 23 supervisor, whoever it happened to be, did you indicate to 24 the supervisor at that time the process that you had used to 25 obtain the records? Page 59 1 or not he could get the records? 1 A I do not recall. 2 Q Do you recall whether or not the 2 A 3 back with me. 3 supervisor that you gave the records to indicated any 4 Q 4 interest in how you had obtained those records? 5 6 All I recall him saying is he would get Page 61 When he got back to you, did he tell you that he had obtained the records? A All I remember is that he -- that I 5 A No, I do not recall that. 6 Q Now, so far every single person that I 7 went -- I met him and picked up like an envelope. I don't 7 have talked to from the Cincinnati Police Department tells me 8 remember there being a discussion of what it was. I don't 8 that there is no other episode that they are aware of where 9 really recall. 9 the Cincinnati Police Department has obtained military 10 11 Q Well, he did tell you to come pick up an envelope from him? 10 records such as these, past the point when somebody was a 11 recruit. 12 A Correct. 12 13 Q Did you think there was going to be 13 obtained records such as the ones that you got for Jason 14 Cotterman? 14 15 something in the envelope other than military records? A No, I thought it was going to be military Has there been any other time that you've 15 A No. Q Did it occur to you that this whole 16 records confirming or not confirming that he was a sniper or 16 17 in Special Ops. 17 process was unusual and smacked of being violative of my Q 18 client's rights? 18 Did it occur to you that when you went to 19 pick up this envelope from the FBI, that you hadn't pursued 19 MS. BISSINGER: Objection. 20 any normal official channels to get those records? 20 MR. GAGE: Objection. 21 A I went through another investigative 21 Q You can answer. A No. 22 entity, like another department or -- for information 22 23 regarding an investigation that I was involved in, which we 23 24 do all of the time. 24 the court reporter, both of the attorneys uttered 25 the word objection. 25 Q How did the FBI get those records? MR. CROSKERY: Just for the benefit of 16 (Pages 58 to 61) Fitch Reporting, Inc. 800-569-7888 Case: 1:17-cv-00608-WOB-KLL Doc #: 37 Filed: 10/24/19 Page: 17 of 22 PAGEID #: 552 Page 62 MS. BISSINGER: They were tight 1 objections, too. 2 3 Q 1 are entitled to obtain it, true? MS. BISSINGER: Objection. 2 BY MR. CROSKERY: 4 Page 64 Q 3 So as part of your investigation You can answer. MS. BISSINGER: If you can understand it. 4 5 training, are you trained in law of search and seizure, 5 Q Do you understand the question? 6 Fourth Amendment rights? 6 A I think there was like three questions in I think there is only one, but do you -- 7 A We don't receive a specific training for 8 investigations. 8 Q 9 Q 9 A No, I don't understand it, sir. Q So let's ask it this way. You could have But you have background that tells you 7 there. 10 this is the process that is normally used to obtain 10 11 information that I need relevant to an investigation; is that 11 gone before Judge Ruehlman and sought permission to obtain 12 right? 12 Jason's military records, correct? 13 A I don't understand what you're asking. 13 14 Q Well, let's put it this way: When you 14 15 set forth a search warrant? 15 MR. GAGE: Objection. Q You could have sworn out a search warrant to obtain Jason's military records, correct? 16 A Correct. 16 A 17 Q The reason for setting forth a search 17 Q Why didn't you? A I reached out to another law enforcement I guess that could have been done. 18 warrant is to establish probable cause so that the judge can 18 19 look at it and say, given this probable cause, there is 19 entity to see if I could confirm or deny that Cotterman was 20 enough here to justify a search and seizure of information. 20 the sniper with these Special Ops. 21 Do you understand that? 21 Q I know what you did. A Uh-huh. Q But what you're doing in essence takes 22 23 A Yes, I understand that. 22 Q All right. But you would agree with me 23 24 that in this particular case, when you pick up the phone and 24 out the gatekeeper, takes out the judge who looks at whether 25 call a friend to get information from the FBI, you did not go 25 or not that information is sufficiently related for you to be Page 63 Page 65 1 before a judge to determine whether or not the information 1 2 that you were seeking was information that you were entitled 2 3 to have, true? 3 4 A I did not go before a judge. 4 5 Q And you understand that the reason to go 5 6 before a judge and obtain a search warrant is so that an 6 7 independent review by someone who is in the legal system can 7 more information than whether or not he was a sniper or 8 say that this is information that you are entitled to have to 8 whether or not he was in Marine Special Operations, and that 9 search and to seize, correct? 9 you had obtained that information without going through the MR. GAGE: Objection. 10 entitled to it. So I'm asking you not what you did, but why you did not swear out a search warrant? A Because all I was looking for was to confirm or deny if he had these sniper or Special Ops things. Q So when you saw that you had obtained far 10 process that guarantees American citizens the right to be 11 Q You can answer. 11 protected from unlawful search and seizure, did you make any 12 A If it's a specific item, like for 12 recommendation that those records should be destroyed? 13 instance, a cell phone or Facebook warrant, yes, I would take 13 A No. 14 it -- I would take a search warrant to a judge to go through 14 Q Did it cause you any level of discomfort 15 that information. 15 that you had obtained information far more than whether or 16 not Jason Cotterman was a sniper or whether or not Jason 17 Cotterman was in Special Operations through an unofficial back door channel without having gone through a judge? 16 17 Q And you did, when you wanted information from Facebook -- 18 A Yes, I did. 18 19 Q -- about his text messages and so forth, 19 MR. GAGE: Objection. MS. BISSINGER: Objection. 20 you went to a judge, you said here is what I need, here is 20 21 the reason why it relates to aggravated menacing, but it's 21 22 also fair to say that no judge told you that in the case of 22 that both attorneys have objected together again. 23 Jason Cotterman, whether or not he was a sniper or in Special 23 You can answer. 24 Operations in the Marines 15 years ago has sufficient 24 25 relevance to the accusation of aggravated menacing, that you 25 MR. CROSKERY: Let the record reflect A I don't even understand that question, sir. 17 (Pages 62 to 65) Fitch Reporting, Inc. 800-569-7888 Case: 1:17-cv-00608-WOB-KLL Doc #: 37 Filed: 10/24/19 Page: 18 of 22 PAGEID #: 553 Page 66 Page 68 1 still an ongoing investigation. I don't -- I'm not sure what 2 there any discussion that you recall within the Internal 2 you're asking me. 3 Investigation Section about whether or not those records had 3 4 been properly obtained? 4 Q 1 After the records were obtained, was 5 A I do not recall that conversation. 5 6 Q Were the records made part of the factual 6 7 file that was reported to the Chief, or do you know? Q Weren't you involved in a closed investigation of Diondre Winstead? A I have been involved in an investigation of Officer Winstead, correct. Q 7 And what was the nature of what you were investigating for? 8 A I don't know that answer. 9 Q Were those records furnished to Dr. Daum? 10 A I don't know that answer either. 10 reference to allegations that Officer Winstead was giving out Q If I told you that the records were not 8 A 9 I was assisting another Sergeant in 11 information reference ongoing investigations in District 12 even mentioned in the final Internal report to the Chief, 12 4's -- 13 that would not surprise you, correct? 13 11 A 14 I'm not sure what you mean would surprise 15 me. I didn't write the final report, so I don't -- I don't 15 16 know what you mean, surprise me. 16 Q 17 So your testimony as you sit here today 17 18 is that at no time, and I will exclude any conversation you 18 19 may have had with counsel, but at no time have the subject of 19 20 how Jason Cotterman's military records were obtained, at no 20 21 time was that a discussion between you and any higher up in 21 22 the department, correct? 22 A 23 That is not what I said. I said I did Q But you were -MR. GAGE: Can we take a break here? I 14 want to object. MR. CROSKERY: Let me skip that, I will keep her out of trouble. MR. GAGE: I want to -- I want to make sure she is not being asked about ongoing investigations. BY MR. CROSKERY: Q Correct. What I'm asking about is an 23 investigation that was closed sometime ago where it was 24 not recall if there was a conversation of how I obtained 24 alleged that the Diondre Winstead was tipping off drug 25 them. 25 dealers, you were involved in that investigation, correct? Page 67 1 Q Would it be the type of conversation that 2 you would be likely to recall if you had been given some sort 3 of discipline or counselling for having obtained records 4 through this unofficial channel? 5 6 7 8 A I don't recall having that conversation with anybody in the higher chain of command. Q You've gotten commendations at the Cincinnati Police Department, haven't you? 9 A Yes, I have. 10 Q And one of them was for being a team 11 player, correct? 12 A Yes. 13 Q And you received that commendation or 14 approbation after the investigation of Diondre Winstead, 15 correct? 16 17 18 A Sir, I don't recall what investigation I got it after. Q Well, the record will reflect, but you 19 were involved in the investigation of Diondre Winstead, 20 correct? 21 22 23 24 25 A Sir, I have been involved in an investigation involving Officer Winstead, yes. Q Do you recall the basic facts of that particular investigation? A That is -- my understanding is it is Page 69 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Yes. MR. GAGE: And I will direct my client to confirm, to be sure if we're going to discuss an investigation, let's not rely on opposing counsel's representation that it's closed. If you're aware of an investigation that he is asking about, that it is, in fact, closed, then -BY MR. CROSKERY: Q Of course. You are aware that the investigation was closed, right? A I'm not 100-percent aware that that investigation is closed, no, I'm not. MR. GAGE: I will want her to -MR. CROSKERY: I'm relying on my understanding. MR. GAGE: I also don't know anything about whether it's closed. So I would want to take a break to see. If you have any documentation indicating that it's closed? MR. CROSKERY: Let's go off the record for a second. (Whereupon, the deposition was recessed at 11:30 a.m.) (Whereupon, the deposition was reconvened at 18 (Pages 66 to 69) Fitch Reporting, Inc. 800-569-7888 Case: 1:17-cv-00608-WOB-KLL Doc #: 37 Filed: 10/24/19 Page: 19 of 22 PAGEID #: 554 Page 70 Page 72 1 11:43 a.m.) 1 2 BY MR. CROSKERY: 2 Q 3 4 Is it true that you sat in on Jason A Q 3 Cotterman and Richard Sulfsted's trial? 4 No. I did a Subpoena from October 22nd through the 30th. Correct. And you did the Subpoena in November of 2015, November 2nd? 5 A Yes. 5 A Yes. 6 Q For the entire trial? 6 Q Okay. And it was about an incident that 7 A I don't know if it was the entire trial. 7 had happened sometime before, particularly on October 22nd, correct? 8 From the time that I -- when I got transferred to IIS, or 8 9 Internal, they had me observe the trial. 9 Q 10 11 When you say they had you observe it, do you mean your supervisor told you -- 10 11 A Between October 22nd and October 30th, Q That's what you asked for, the actual yes. 12 A Correct. 12 incident was, according to your information on Page 1, the 13 Q -- to sit in on it? 13 actual incident was on October 22nd of 2015. Do you see 14 A Correct. 14 that, bottom of Page 1? 15 Q Do you remember which supervisor it was? 15 16 A I don't recall. 16 Q What was the purpose of your sitting in 17 17 18 on the trial? A 19 Every criminal trial or criminal incident A Q there still an open investigation on this aggravated menacing 19 at the time of the trial? that we have involving one of our employees, we observe the 20 A 21 trial or the Court case, we observe it. 21 the trial. 23 Q When you say we, you're talking about Internal? All right. So having clarified that, was 18 20 22 That is when the interview with the Pension Board guy was, yes. This aggravated menacing happened after 22 Q Wasn't the trial in March of 2016? 23 A I don't know. I don't recall. Q We can agree at least from your Exhibit 24 A Internal does, correct. 24 25 Q Okay. And you took notes during the 25 here, that the incident that you were asked to investigate Page 71 1 trial? Page 73 1 was an incident that took place on October 22nd of 2015? 2 A No. 2 A Correct. 3 Q Did the trial have any relevance to the 3 Q And you didn't sit in on the trial before 4 investigation that you ended up doing on aggravated menacing? 4 you were assigned to Internal Investigations, correct? 5 A What do you mean relevance? 5 6 Q Well, did you use anything that you 6 7 obtained from the trial in your investigation, your 7 Q All right. 8 subsequent investigation? 8 A And that was one of the first things that A Correct. I was assigned to Internal in September of '15. 9 A No, the investigation -- 10 Q Right. 10 11 A -- that I was involved in had to do with 11 because you wouldn't have sat in on a trial in March of 9 I did while I was there. Q But there was no trial in March of 2015, 12 the threat, the threats that were made to the Pension Board 12 2015 -- what I'm telling you is the trial was March of 2016; 13 guy. 13 isn't that right? 14 Q I understand that. And that 14 A I don't know that answer. Q Do you believe that the trial took place 15 investigation was subsequent to the trial, I understand, or 15 16 was it? 16 before this incident involving aggravated menacing? 17 A I think it was after the trial. 17 A Yes. 18 Q Well, your Subpoena was in -- 18 Q All right. Now, you had indicated to me 19 A November. 19 that you went to this FBI friend that had formerly been in Q -- November of 2015, and the trial was in 20 the Cincinnati Police Department, a Mr. Warner, but I'm 21 curious as to why you went to him at all, because isn't it 20 21 March of 2016, correct? 22 A I don't know. This -- this incident -- 22 true that the Cincinnati Police Department routinely obtains 23 Q Right. The incident that you 23 military records? 24 investigated took place in November of 2015, or at least you 24 A Sir, I don't know that answer. 25 were doing a Subpoena about it in November of 2015, correct? 25 Q Well, don't -- don't they run military 19 (Pages 70 to 73) Fitch Reporting, Inc. 800-569-7888 Case: 1:17-cv-00608-WOB-KLL Doc #: 37 Filed: 10/24/19 Page: 20 of 22 PAGEID #: 555 Page 74 1 2 3 records on every recruit? Page 76 Q 1 You also did not ask Matt DeBlaugh A I do not know. 2 whether or not the HIPAA laws had been complied with in Q Let me show you what's marked as Exhibit 3 obtaining those records, correct? 4 23. I will represent to you that this is -- it was obtained 4 A 5 by my client from the National Personnel Records Center, 5 HIPAA. 6 Exhibit 23, and it gives the list from the National Personnel 6 Q Do you know what HIPAA is? 7 Records Center people that have inquired. 7 A Yes, sir. I'm familiar with what HIPAA Q I thought you might be. So you've 8 Now, first of all, can you agree with me 9 that this shows a request from the Cincinnati Police 8 Yeah. No, I didn't ask anybody about is. 9 10 Department, a background investigation and copy of the 10 probably gone through the process of obtaining authorizations 11 DD-214, was sent out on January 16th, 2003? 11 to get HIPAA information before, haven't you? 12 A 13 14 Q 12 A I have. MR. GAGE: I'm sorry -- 13 Q But that didn't happen in this case, Did you ask anybody -- 14 15 A True. 16 Q So just so it's clear on the record, I MR. GAGE: I'm sorry, which date did you 15 16 Yes, it says that. ask her about? MR. CROSKERY: If you look at the second 17 line down, it states on January 16th, 2003. true? 17 understand that you told me that you did not use any 18 information directly that you obtained from the records, 19 MR. GAGE: Oh, I see. 19 other than just transferring all the records to your 20 MR. CROSKERY: A request from the 20 supervisor, correct? 18 21 Cincinnati Police Department for the background 21 22 investigation. 22 23 24 25 BY MR. CROSKERY: Q MR. GAGE: Objection. Can you clarify which records you're referring to? Q 23 But you would agree with me that there is no request listed on this form anywhere from the FBI for his 24 I will try to. You were not part of writing the final report to the Chief? A 25 I did not write the final report to the Page 75 1 records, correct? Page 77 1 2 A Correct. 2 3 Q And there is no subsequent request from 3 4 the Cincinnati Police Department, true? Chief. Q And as far as you recall, you didn't give input on the final report to the Chief, correct? A 4 I did not write the final report. I do 5 A You mean after the January 16th one? 5 6 Q Correct. 6 7 A Correct. 7 supervisor, do you recall anything of what you told him about 8 Q Are you familiar with the Privacy Act? 8 the records? 9 A What Privacy Act, just in general? 9 10 Q Privacy Act 1974, the one that you sign 10 11 the forms for all the time, that says in order to obtain 11 Q 12 certain private records, that an authorization is needed? 12 A I do not recall. Q Do you recall discussing in any way the 13 14 A Yeah. I'm familiar with it. 13 Q All right. You would agree with me that 14 not recall giving input on the final report. Q A When you conveyed the records to the Sir, I don't recall. I mean, this was four years ago. I don't -I'm asking for your best recollection. mechanism by which they were obtained? 15 you didn't make any efforts to get Privacy Act information 15 16 signed by Jason Cotterman prior to obtaining the records that 16 already answered that a couple of times. I don't recall 17 you got from the FBI, correct? 17 telling anyone how I got them. A No, I do not recall, and I think I 18 A No, I did not. 18 19 Q And you have no information that states 19 anyone in the Cincinnati Police Department how you got them, true? 20 that the FBI complied with the Privacy Act of 1974 with 20 21 regard to those records, true? 21 Q A And you don't recall ever being asked by True. 22 A I don't have that information, sir. 22 MR. CROSKERY: All right. I think I'm 23 Q You didn't ask Matt DeBlaugh whether or 23 about finished. Let's go off the record for just a 24 minute. 25 (Whereupon, the deposition was recessed at 24 25 not the Privacy Act had been complied with, correct? A Correct. 20 (Pages 74 to 77) Fitch Reporting, Inc. 800-569-7888 Case: 1:17-cv-00608-WOB-KLL Doc #: 37 Filed: 10/24/19 Page: 21 of 22 PAGEID #: 556 Page 78 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 11:53 a.m.) (Whereupon, the deposition was reconvened at 11:54 a.m.) BY MR. CROSKERY: Q Ma'am, if you wanted to obtain records pertaining to a suspect from the University of Cincinnati Hospital, tell me how you would go about doing it. A I would either get consent from them, or I could get -- write a Court Order. Q Why would you need consent from the suspect? A What are you referring to? For what kind of records? Q Medical records. A To get consent from them to look at their medical records for whatever I'm investigating. Q Sure. And you would present them with a form to sign; is that right? A Correct. For medical records, yes. Q And why would you get the consent for medical records? A So I can look at them. Q Why couldn't you look at them anyway? MR. GAGE: Objection. Q Wouldn't you need the consent form or a Page 80 1 CHANGES AND SIGNATURE 2 PAGE/LINE CHANGE 3 ______________________________________________________ 4 ______________________________________________________ 5 ______________________________________________________ 6 ______________________________________________________ 7 ______________________________________________________ 8 ______________________________________________________ 9 ______________________________________________________ 10 ______________________________________________________ 11 ______________________________________________________ 12 ______________________________________________________ 13 ______________________________________________________ 14 ______________________________________________________ 15 ______________________________________________________ 16 ______________________________________________________ 17 ______________________________________________________ 18 ______________________________________________________ 19 ______________________________________________________ 20 ______________________________________________________ 21 I, MICHELLE LONGWORTH, have read the foregoing 22 deposition and hereby affix my signature that same is true 23 and correct, except as noted above. _______________________ 24 MICHELLE LONGWORTH 25 Page 79 1 Court Order just to obtain the records to start with? 2 A Medical records? 3 Q Yes. 4 A Yes. 5 Q So how are military records different? 6 A When I asked for confirmation on regarding if he was a sniper or had Special Ops, I asked for the military records. I didn't ask for anything -- or I -- to 10 see if we could confirm it through a military record. I 11 never asked anybody for medical records. MR. CROSKERY: All right. I have nothing 13 further. You've got the right to review this and 14 make sure that everything is accurate, if it is 15 transcribed, which it will be, or you can waive 16 that right. 17 MR. GAGE: She will read. 18 MR. CROSKERY: She is reading, I'm 19 20 1 ordering. We are off the record. MS. BISSINGER: I will get a copy, too. 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CERTIFICATE STATE OF OHIO ) ) SS: COUNTY OF CLERMONT ) 3 8 12 Page 81 2 7 9 REASON (DEPOSITION WAS CONCLUDED AT 11:57 A.M.) I, Jane Anne Fitch, the undersigned, a duly qualified and commissioned Notary Public within and for the State of Ohio, do hereby certify that before the giving of the aforesaid deposition, the said MICHELLE LONGWORTH, was by me, a Notary Public within and for the State of Ohio, first duly sworn to depose the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth; that the foregoing deposition was given at the said time and place and was taken in all respects pursuant to agreement of counsel hereinbefore set forth; that the deposition was taken in stenotype by me, and transcribed into typewritten form under my supervision; that the transcribed deposition is to be submitted to the witness for her examination and signature; that I am neither relative, attorney, nor employee of any party or their counsel and have no interest in the result of this pending action. IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand and official seal of office at Batavia, Ohio this ____ day of _________, 2019. _________________________ My commission expires April 30, 2021 21 22 23 24 25 21 (Pages 78 to 81) Fitch Reporting, Inc. 800-569-7888 Case: Doc 37 Filed: 10/24/19 Page: 22 of 22 PAGEID 557 ERTIFICATE STATE OF OHIO SS: COUNTY OF CLERMONT I, Jane Anne Fitch, the undersigned, a duly qualified and commissioned Notary Public within and for the State of Ohio, do hereby certify that before the giving of the aforesaid deposition, the said MICHELLE LONGWORTH, was by me, a Notary Public within and for the State of Ohio, first duly sworn to depose the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth; that the foregoing deposition was given at the said time and place and was taken in all respects pursuant to agreement of counsel hereinbefore set forth; that the deposition was taken in stenotype by me, and transcribed into typewritten form under my supervision; that the transcribed deposition is to be submitted to the witness for her examination and signature; that I am neither relative, attorney, nor employee of any party or their counsel and have no interest in the result of this pending action. IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand of 'c'al seal of office at Batavia, Ohio this day of 2019. - ()3,me ommiSSion expires April 30, 2021 FITCH REPORTING, INC. Cincinnati: 513?777-2500 USA: 800?569e7888