1 UNCLASS I FIED PERMANENT SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE, joint with the COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND REFORM and the COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS, U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, WASHTNGToN, D.C. DEPOSITION OF: LIEUTENANT COLONEL ALEXANDER Tuesday, Octoben 29, Washington, D.C. UNCLASS I FIED 2Ot9 S. VINDMAN 2 UNCLASS The deposition in the I FIED above matten was held in Room HVC-304, at 9:33 a.m. Present: Repnesentatives Schiff, Himes, Sewe11, Canson, Capitol Visiton Center, commencing Speien, Quigley, Swalwel}, Castno, Heck, We1ch, Ma}oney, Demings, Knishnamoonthi, Nunes, Conaway, Wenstnup, Stewart, Stefanik, and Ratcliffe. Also Pnesent: Repnesentatives Jondan, Armstrong, Cloud, Connolly, Cooper, DeSauInier, Higgins, Kelly, Khanna, Lawnence, Lynch, Maloney, Massie, Meadows, MiIlen, Nonman, Nonton, PIaskett, Raskin, Rouda, Roy, Sanbanes, Bunchett, TIaib, Wassenman SchuItz, McCaul, Allned, Bera, Cicilline, Connolly, Costa, Cuntis, Deutch, Espaillat, Fitzpatnick, Guest, Houlahan, Keating, Levin, Lieu, Malinowski, Mast, Meeks, Oman, Perny, Reschenthalen, Shenman, Spanbengen, and Zeldin. UNCLASS I EIED Titus, Yoho, 3 UNCLASS I EIED Appeanances: Fon the PERMANENT SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE: UNCLASS I FIED 4 UNCLASS ] FIED Fon thC COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND Fon thc REFORM: COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS: Fon LIEUTENANT COLONEL ALEXANDER S. VINDMAN: MATTHEW STANKIEWICZ, SENIOR ASSOCIATE MICHAEL VoLKoV, CE0 THE VOLKOV LAW GROUP 22?O Pennsylvania Avenue 4th Floor NW East trlashington, D. C. 20037 UNCLASS I EI ED 5 UNCLASS THE CHAIRMAN: Good House Permanent I FIED morning, Colonel Vindman, and welcome to the Select Committee on Intelligence, which, along with the Foneign Affains and 0vensight Committees, is conducting this investigation as pant of the official impeachment inquiny of the House of Repnesentatives. Today's deposition is being conducted as pant of the impeachment inquiny announced on September 24, 20L9. In light of attempts by the administration to dinect witnesses not to coopenate with the inquiny, including effonts to limit testimony, the committee had no choice but to compel your today. We thank you for witness appeanance complying with the duly authonized congnessional subpoena. Colonel Vindman has senved oun countny as a distinguished officen in the United States Army fon mone than 20 years. He has senved sevenal touns abnoad, including a deployment to Inaq, whene he was wounded and awanded a PunpIe Anea Heant. For the last decade, he has senved as a Foneign Officen focused on Eurasia, including wonk fon the Chainman of the loint Chiefs of Staff and, most necently, at the National Security CounciI. Colonel Vindman, we thank you fon youn many dedicated years of senvice to oun Nation. to the countny. Finally, to We ane nestate what intenviews, Congress gnatefu] fon youn counageous senvice I and othens have emphasized will not tolenate othen any nepnisal, thneat of nepnisal, on attempt to netaliate against any U.S. Govennment fon testifying befone Congness, including you on any of UNCLASS in I FIED official youn 6 UNCLASS I FI ED colleagues. to pnohibit fnom coopenating with the inquiny and have tnied to limit It is distunbing that the employees White House has sought say. Thankfully, consummate pnofessionals like Colonel Vindman have demonstnated nemarkable counage in coming fonwand to testify, obey thein oath to defend the Constitution, and to teII the what they can tnuth. I do want to say a1so, Colonel, how deeply dismayed the vicious pensonal attack on you on will be condemned by all Amenicans. FOX I last night, and I We ane was with hope it veny gnateful fon youn senvice. You repnesent what's best about this countny. Befone we begin the intenview, Nunes on, in his absence, a minonity Oversight Committees to fon being want memben to invite Ranking Memben of the Foneign Affains on make any opening nemanks. MR. IORDAN: Thank Colone1, we want I you, Chainman. to thank you fon youn senvice to oun countny and hene today. lust two things I minonity, I think, more wanted to get on the necord that tnouble the impontantly, trouble the Amenican people. The first is the statement the chainman made Sunday monning I believe on CBS. Each day we leave this - - I think we'ne now on oun eighth on ninth deposition -- each day we leave, the chairman admonishes eveny single one of us in this room not to go out and share substantive matenials on infonmation from the substance And yet, of the deposition. on Sunday monning, the chairman on, again, UNCLASS ] FIED I believe CBS, 7 UNCLASS said: I ED alneady know fnom the testimony of othens that who has, you know, concern Ambassadon Sondland and And by I F] this is that the people in the State someone Depantment, othens, Mulvaney, wene cooking up a dnug deal. that, he meant a corrupt deal involving withholding White House meeting on penhaps withholding aid as well. That And to is dinectly fnom testimony of a witness in this if we're going to get the admonishment me the chainman should follow his own fnom committee. the chainman, it seems instnuctions to the nest of us. Second, as mone I impontantly, that thene knows mentioned yesterday, I think ane 435 Membens the minonity is tnoubled and, the Amenican people ane troubled by the fact of yet only one, only Congness and one Memben the person who stanted this whole thing and, mone impontantly on as importantly, the handful of people who gave that individual the of this entine chanade that we've been going thnough now for 5 weeks. And so I think those ane impontant infonmation that fonmed the basis facts, impontant concerns that we have and, as I said, most impontantly, I think the Amenican people have. With that, I'd be happy, if the chainman's okay, Ietting -- yielding to the nanking memben of the Intelligence Committee. to yield to Mn. Nunes. We}I, I'11 just say we look fonwand to THE CHAIRIvIAN: MR. NUNES: new I'm happy whateven the constnuct of the impeachment committee is going to look of counse, welcome to Lieutenant Colonel Vindman today, UNCLASS I FIED 1ike. And, and hopefully 8 UNCLASS will youn testimony And, with be honest and forthnight. that, I yield THE CHAIRMAN: I nespond I'I1 to the false teII me THE CHAIRMAN: Mn. Goldman, MR. GOLDMAN: Thank pursuant time that the what's false, Mn. Chairman? you are recognized. you, Mr. Chairman. is a deposition of conducted by my necognize Mn. Goldman. MR. IORDAN: Can you This statements fnom I don't want to take up the witness' colleague, MF. londan. So back. thank the gentleman. I'm not going to way. I FIED Lieutenant Colonel Alexanden Vindman House Penmanent Select Committee on to the impeachment inquiny House on September 24, announced by Intelligence the Speaker of the 20L9. Colonel Vindman, could you please state youn fuII name and spe11 youn Iast name for the necond. LT. COL. VINDMAN: Alexanden Semyon Vindman, last name spelled V-i-n-d-m-a-n. MR. GOLDMAN: You may It S-e-m-y-o-n. I don't use it LT. COL. VINDMAN: S-e-m-y-o-n, last name MR. GOLDMAN: A11 also have to spelt your middle goes by Simon, but very often. So the pnoper Alexander I name. guess is Semyon Vindman, V-i-n-d-m-a-n. night, thank you. We understand it's a bit of a nenve-wnacking envinonment, and we thank you fon your testimony hene today. Along with other pnoceedings UNCLASS in funthenance of the inquiny to I FIED 9 I FIED UNCLASS date, this deposition is joint investigation led by the pant of a Intelligence Committee in coondination with the Committees on Foneign Affains and Ovensight and Reform. In the room today staff ane majonity thnee committees, and this wiIl be a and minonity staff staff-Ied deposition. fnom all Membens, of counse, fiay ask questions duning thein allotted time, as has been the case in eveny deposition since the inception of this investigation. My name is Danie1 Go1dman. with the HPSCI majonity staff. I'm the dinecton of investigations And f to thank you again fon coming want in today. Let me do some bnief intnoductlons. To my night is Daniel Noble. for the Intelligence Committee. Mn. Noble and I will be conducting most of the intenview fon the He's Senion Investigative Counsel majonity. And now I'11 let me countenpants fnom the minonity introduce themselves. MR. CASTOR: Good monning. I'm Steve Caston with the Republican staff of the Ovensight Committee. I MR. GOLDMAN: unclassified level. This deposition Howeven, HPSCI secune spaces and will be conducted entinely at the the deposition is being conducted in in the pnesence UNCLASS I FIED of staff with appnopriate 10 UNCLASS I FI ED secunity cleanances. It is the committee's expectation that neithen questions asked of you non answens provided by you will requine discussion of any infonmation that is cunnently on at any point could be propenly classified EO-13526 unden Executive Orden 13526. You ane neminded that states that, quote, "in no case shall infonmation be classified, continue to be maintained as classified, or fail to be declassifiedr " unquote, fon the punpose of concealing any violations of law on pneventing embannassment of any penson on entity. If any of oun questions, howeven, can only be answened with ctassified infonmation, please infonm us of that fact befone you answer the question and we can adjust accordingly. Today's deposition because of the sensitive and matenials deposition Unden staff will will and confidential natune of be discussed, access be limited some to the thnee committees in can discuss the substance of the testimony You and youn attonney will of the topics to the tnanscnipt of the the House deposition nules, no Memben of memben today. that is not being taken in executive session, but attendance. Congness non any that have an oppontunity you pnovide to neview the tnanscnipt. Befone we begin, I'd like to go oven the gnound rules fon the deposition. We will be following the House negulations fon depositions, which we have pneviously pnovided to youn counsel. deposition will pnoceed as follows: to ask questions. Then the minonity UNCLASS The majonity will I FI be ED given will be given t t houn. The houn Thereaften, 11 UNCLASS we will I FIED altennate back and fonth between majonity and minority in will take peniodic bneaks, but if you need a bneak at any time, please Iet us know. Unden 45-minute nounds until questioning the House is complete. We deposition nules, counsel fon othen pensons or govennment agencies may not attend. You ane penmitted to have an attonney pnesent duning this deposition, and I see that you have brought two. At this time, if counsel could please state thein appeanances fon the record. MR. VOLKOV: Michael Volkov, Volkov Law Gnoup. MR. STANKIEWICZ: Matthew Stankiewicz, Volkov Law Gnoup. MR. GOLDMAN: There is a stenognaphen taking down evenything that is said hene today in onden to make a written necond of the deposition. Fon the necond to be clean, please wait until each question is completed befone you begin your answen, and we will endeavor to wait until you finish youn nesponse befone asking the next question. The stenographen cannot necond nonvenbal answens, such as shaking youn head, so it is audible venbal We ask impontant that you answen each question with an answen. that you give complete answens to questions based on youn If a question is unclean on you ane uncentain in youn response, please let us know. And if you do not know the answen best necollection. to a question on cannot nememben, simply say so. You may only nefuse to necognized by answen a the committee. If question to pnesenve a pnivilege you nefuse UNCLASS I FI ED to answen a question on 12 UNCLASS the basis of pnivilege, staff may I FIED either pnoceed on seek a nuling fnom the chainman on the ovennules any such objection, YoU ane pnovide false infonmation to objection. If the nequined it is Final1y, you ane reminded that of Members with the deposition to chain answer the question. unlawful Congness on to deliberately staff. It is imperative that you not only answen oun questions tnuthfully but that you give fulI and complete answens to all Omissions may also be considened as Now, as this deposition is unden false questions asked of you. statements. oath, Colonel Vindman, would you please stand and raise youn night hand to be swonn. Do you swean that the testimony pnovided hene today will be the whole tnuth and nothing but the tnuth? LT. COL. VINDMAN: I MR. GoLDMAN: Let dO. the necond neflect that the witness has been swonn and you may be seated. Colonel Vindman, has any mattens to if you have an opening statement or youn attorney addness with the committee, now is the time. LT. COL. VINDMAN: Mn. Chainman, Ranking Memben, thank you fon the oppontunity to addness the committee concenning the activities nelated to Uknaine and my role in the events unden investigation. life to the United States of Amenica. Fon mone than two decades, it has been my honon to senve aS an officen in the United States Anmy. As an infantny officen, I I senved have dedicated my entine pnofessional multiple touns ovenseas, including South deployed to Inaq for combat Korea and Genmany, and openations. In Inaq, I UNCLASSIFIED was wounded in an 13 UNCLASS IED attack and awanded Since 2008, I a I E]ED Punp1e Heant. have been a Foneign Anea Officen specializing in Eurasia. In this nole, I have senved in the United States Embassies in Kyiv, Uknaine, and Moscow, Russj.a. In Washington, D.C., I was a politico-militany affains officen fon Russia fon the Chairman of the loint Chiefs, whene I authored the pnincipal stnategy fon managing In competition with Russia. I JuLy 2OL8, was asked to senve at the National Security Council. of serving my countny is not only nooted in my militany senvice but also in my pensonal histony. I sit hene, as a The pnivilege Lieutenant Colonel in the United States Anmy, an immignant. fled the Soviet Union when I was 3 and a halfyeans oId. Upon My family anniving in L979, my fathen wonked multiple jobs to suppont uS, all the while leanning English at night. He stressed to us the impontance of fully integnating into oun adopted countny. Fon many yeans, life was difficult. In spite of oun challenging beginnings, my family wonked to build its own Amenican Dneam. I have a deep in New York City appneciation fon American values and ideals and the powen of fneedom. f am a patriot. It is my sacned duty and honor to advance and defend oun countny innespective Fon over and diplomat, I 2O I have done so of panty on politics. years as an Active Duty United States militany have senved this countny in a nonpantisan officer mannen, and with the utmost nespect and pnofessionalism fon both the Republican and Democnatic administnations. Befone necounting my necollections UNCLASS I EIED of vanious events unden t4 UNCLASS] EIED investigation, I want to clanify a few issues. I voluntanily, pursuant to a subpoena, the best of I my will answer all questions to necollection. want the committee this issue to the who and am appeaning today to CIA and the whistleblowen is, know I am not the whistleblower who bnought the committee's attention. I do not and I would not know feel comfortable to speculate to the identity of the whistleblowen. A1so, I will detail henein I did not convey -- I did -- I'11 say again. As I will detail herein, I did convey centain concenns intennally to national secunity officials in accondance with my decades as of duty, and obligation to openate within the chain of command. As an Active Duty militany officen, the command stnuctune is extremely impontant to me. On many occasions, of expenience and tnaining, sense told I should expness my views and shane my concenns with my chain of command and pnopen authonities. I believe that any good militany officer should and would do the same, thus pnoviding his on hen best advice to leadenshiP. Funthenmore, in penforming my coordination nole as Dinecton on the National Security Council, I pnovided neadouts of nelevant meetings I've been and communications to a veny small gnoup of pnoperly cleaned national secunity countenpants with a relevant need-to-know. I joined the White House National Secunity Council, I neponted to Dn. Fiona HiIl, who, in tunn, neponted to Ambassadon lohn When Bolton, National Secunity Advison. My nole at the National Secunity Council includes developing, coordinating, and executing plans UNCLASS I F1 ED and 15 I FIED UNCLASS policies to militany, my manage the and economic fulI nange of diplomatic, informational, national secunity issues for the countnies in pontfolio, which includes Ukraine. In my position, I coondinate with a supenb cohont pantnens. I negutanly pnepane intennal memonanda, of intenagency talking points, and othen matenials fon the National Secunity Advison and senion staff. Most of my intenactions relate to national secunity issues ane, therefone, especially sensitive. I and would urge the committees to canefully balance the need fon infonmation against impact that disclosune would have on oun foreign policy and national secunity. I have neven had dinect contact on communications with the Pnesident. Since 2OO8, Russia has manifested geopolitics behind -- this. I apologize. so I'm going to go into the Since 2008, Russia has manifested an ovently aggnessive foneign policy, levenaging military powen and employing hybnid wanfane negional hegemony and to achieve its objectives of gIobal influence. Absent a detennent to dissuade Russia fnom such aggnession, thene is an incnease confrontations with the West. This situation a stnong and independent Uknaine intenests because Uknaine of funthen -- in this situation, is cnitical to U.S. national secunity is a fnont-Iine state and a bulwank against Russian aggnession. In spite of being unden assault fnom Russia fon mone than 5 yeans, Uknaine has taken majon steps towand integnating with the West. The U.S. Govennment policy community's view is that the election of Pnesident Volodymyn Zelensky and the pnomise UNCLASS I F]ED of neform to eliminate I FI UNCLASS 16 ED will lock in Uknaine's Westenn-leaning trajectony and aIlow Uknaine to nealize its dneam of a vibnant democnacy and economic connuption prospenity. Given this penspective and my commitment that I will intenests, govennment's stnategic to advancing oun now necount sevenal events occunred. I joined the National Secunity Council in July of 2078, I began implementing the administnation's Uknaine policy. In the spning of 2O!9, I became awane of outside influencens pnomoting a false When of Uknaine inconsistent with the consensus views of the entine intenagency. This narnative was harmful to U.S. Government nanrative policy. While my intenagency colleagues and I wene becoming incneasingly optimistic about Uknaine's prospects, nannative undenmined U.S. Govennment effonts with this altennative to expand coopenation Uknaine. 0n Uknaine Apnil 21st, 20L9, Volodymyn Zelensky in a landslide victony. was elected President of Pnesident Zelensky was seen as unifying figure within the countny. He was the finst a candidate to win a majonity in eveny negion of the countny, bneaking the claims that Uknaine would be subject to penpetual divide between the Uknainian- and Russian-speaking populations. President Zelensky nan on a platfonm of unity, refonm, and anticonnuption, which nesonated with the entire countny. In suppont of U.S. policy objectives to soveneignty, Pnesident Tnump ca11ed UNCLASS suppont Uknainian President Zelensky on Apnil 21st, I FI ED I FI UNCLASS 20L9. I t7 ED of sevenal staff officens who listened to the caII. The caII was positive. The President expressed his desine to wonk with Pnesident Zelensky and extended an invitation to visit the White House. was one On May 2tst,2OL9, I was dinected by Ambassadon Bolton and Dr. Hill to join the delegation attending inaugunation. When Pnesident Zelensky's the delegation netunned, they pnovided a debniefing to the Pnesident and explained thein positive assessment of Pnesident Zelensky and his team. I did not panticipate in this debriefing. 0n July 10th, 2019, Oleksandr Danylyuk, the Secnetany of the National Secunity and Defense Council for Uknaine, visited Washington, D.C., fon a meeting with National Secunity Advison Bolton. Ambassadons Volken and Sondland and Enengy Secnetany Rick Perny attended. The meeting pnoceeded welI until the Ukrainians broached the subject of a meeting between the two Pnesidents. The Uknainians this meeting as cnitically impontant in onden to solidify the suppont fon thein most important intennational partnen. started -- when Ambassadon Sondland saw Ambassadon Sondland stanted to speak about Uknaine delivening specific investigations in onden to secune the meeting with the Pnesident, Ambassadon Bo1ton Following the meeting cut the meeting shont. -- this meeting -- thene was a scheduled debniefing duning which Ambassadon Sondland emphasized the impontance that Uknaine deliven the investigation into the Bidens, and Bunisma. I stated to UNCLASS 2016 elections, the Ambassadon Sondland I FIED that the 18 UNCLASS I EIED statements -- that his statements wene inappropniate, that the nequest to investigate the Bidens and his security, was going and that such son had nothing to do with national investigations wene not somethlng that the to get involved in on push. Dn. Hill entened the noom NSC shontly theneaften and assented to Ambassadon Sondland that his statements wene inappnopriate. Following the debniefing, I reponted my concerns to NSC's 1ega1 counsel, Iead legal counsel. Dn. Hill also neponted the incident to lead legaI counsel. On July 2Lst, 2OL9, Pnesident Zelensky's panty won Parliamentany in a landslide victony. The NSC pnoposed that President Tnump call Pnesident Zelensky to congnatulate him. On July 25th, that call occunred. I listened to the call in the elections Situation Room with colleagues fnom the NSC and Pnesident. As the tnanscnipt is in the public of Office of the Vice necond, we all ane awane what was said. I demand was concenned by that the call. I did not think it a foneign govennment wonnied about was propen to investigate a U.S. citizen, and I was the implications to the U.S. Govennment's suppont of I nealized that if Uknaine punsued an investigation into the Bidens and Bunisma, it would be intenpneted as a bipantisan PIay, which would undoubtedly -- I'm sonny. I'm going to nestate that. Sonny. I nealized that if Ukraine pursued an investigation into the Bidens and Bunisma, it would likely be intenpreted as a pantisan p1ay, which would undoubtedly nesult in Uknaine losing the bipantisan suppont it Uknaine. UNCLASS I FIED 19 UNCLASS has thus ] FIED far maintained. This would all undermine U.S. national secunity. Following the ca1l, I again neported my concerns to NSC's legaI counseL. In conclusion, the United States and Uknaine ane and must nemain stnategic pantnens, wonking togethen to nealize the shaned vision of a stable, pnosperous, and democnatic Uknaine that is integnated into the Euno-Atlantic community. 0un pantnenship is nooted in the idea that fnee citizens should be able to exencise thein democnatic nights, choose thein It own destiny, and live in has been a gneat honon to peace. senve the Amenican people and a pnivilege to wonk in the White House and on the National Secunity Council. I hope to continue to senve and advance Amenica's national secunity intenests. Thank you again fon youn considenation, and now happy to answen youn questions. IThe infonmation fo]lows: l ,F*,1.***** INSERT 1-1 *x*x*