675 1 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA 2 3 4 5 6 7 United States of America, ) Criminal Action ) No. 19-CR-018 Plaintiff, ) ) JURY TRIAL vs. ) DAY 4 - MORNING ) Roger Jason Stone, Jr., ) Washington, DC ) Date: November 8, 2019 Defendant ) Time: 9:30 a.m. ___________________________________________________________ 8 9 10 TRANSCRIPT OF JURY TRIAL HELD BEFORE THE HONORABLE JUDGE AMY BERMAN JACKSON UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE ____________________________________________________________ 11 12 A P P E A R A N C E S 13 For the Plaintiff: Jonathan Ian Kravis Michael John Marando Adam Jed Aaron Simcha Jon Zelinsky U.S. ATTORNEY'S OFFICE FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA 555 Fourth Street, NW Washington, DC 20530 (202) 252-7068 Email: Jonathan.kravis3@usdoj.gov Email: Asjz@usdoj.gov Email: Michael.marando@usdoj.gov For the Defendant: Bruce S. Rogow LAW OFFICE OF BRUCE S. ROGOW, P.A. 100 NE 3rd Avenue Suite 1000 Fort Lauderdale, FL 33301 (954) 767-8909 Email: Brogow@rogowlaw.com 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 676 1 For the Defendant: 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 Robert C. Buschel Tara A. Campion BUSCHEL & GIBBONS, P.A. One Financial Plaza 100 S.E. Third Avenue Suite 1300 Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33394 (954) 530-5301 Email: Buschel@bglaw-pa.com Grant J. Smith STRATEGYSMITH, P.A. 401 East Las Olas Boulevard Suite 130-120 Fort Lauderdale, FL 33301 (954) 328-9064 Email: Gsmith@strategysmith.com Chandler Paige Routman LAW OFFICE OF CHANDLER P. ROUTMAN 501 East Las Olas Blvd. Suite #331 Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33316 (954) 235-8259 Email: Routmanc@gmail.com 13 ____________________________________________________________ 14 Court Reporter: 15 16 17 18 Janice E. Dickman, RMR, CRR, CRC Official Court Reporter United States Courthouse, Room 6523 333 Constitution Avenue, NW Washington, DC 20001 202-354-3267 Email: JaniceDickmanDCD@gmail.com * * * 19 INDEX 20 21 22 23 24 25 Randolph Credico Direct Examination (cont.) By Mr. Zelinsky.......... 681 Cross-Examination By Mr. Buschel.................... 731 Redirect Examination By Mr. Zelinsky................ 797 * * * 677 1 THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: Good morning, Your Honor. 2 This morning we have Criminal Case Number 19-18, United States 3 of America v. Roger Stone. 4 courtroom. 5 6 7 Mr. Stone is present and in the Will counsel for the parties please approach the lectern, identify yourself for the record. MR. KRAVIS: Good morning, Your Honor. 8 Jonathan Kravis for the United States. With me at counsel 9 table are Michael Marando, Aaron Zelinsky, Adam Jed, 10 Amanda Rohde from the D.C. U.S. Attorney's Office, and FBI 11 Special agent Christopher Keefe. 12 THE COURT: All right. 13 MR. BUSCHEL: Good morning. Good morning, Judge. Robert Buschel, 14 Tara Campion, Grant Smith, Bruce Rogow, and Chandler Routman on 15 behalf of Roger Stone. 16 17 THE COURT: All right. And I note for the record that he is present as well. 18 Are both sides ready? 19 matters you want me to take up? 20 MR. ZELINSKY: 21 MR. BUSCHEL: 22 THE COURT: Do you have any preliminary No. No. All right. Before we start, I think it's 23 worth noting this morning, after several days of being here 24 together, that everyone within the well of this court has been 25 conducting themselves with complete commitment to their 678 1 respective sides of the case, but also completely, 2 appropriately, and professionally, and I appreciate it. 3 I also feel compelled to observe that there has been 4 reporting by others, who are not here, about this case and 5 about what has transpired in this courtroom, and particularly 6 concerning the selection and composition of the jury, but also 7 with respect to other matters. 8 9 It is uninformed and, unfortunately, false. It's caused great consternation among members of the public, who 10 would have a very good reason to be upset if the information 11 was true. 12 It's concerning to me because it's not only 13 inaccurate and irresponsible, but it puts the safety of all the 14 people associated with this case, on both sides, and including, 15 possibly, the jurors, at risk. 16 Since everyone has a right to express their views, I 17 just have this reminder, and that is that these are public 18 proceedings and people can observe them with their own eyes. 19 And members of the press who need to communicate in real-time 20 have also been provided with a room specifically reserved for 21 the media. 22 If you can't be here in the building, transcripts 23 being created on a daily basis can be ordered. 24 and entities who choose to get it right can easily do so. 25 So individuals With respect to the gallery, I appreciate the decorum 679 1 with which members of the public have approached these 2 proceedings over the past several days, and I'm sure that that 3 will continue. 4 I do want to underscore that these are serious 5 proceedings. 6 other people in the rows. 7 attention to yourselves. 8 9 They're not an opportunity to draw And so I would like things to continue the way they've been going to this point. 10 11 They're not an opportunity to meet and greet the Mr. Zelinsky, are you ready? Can we bring in Mr. Credico? 12 MR. ZELINSKY: 13 THE COURT: 14 (Witness enters the courtroom.) 15 THE COURT: 16 All right. All right. THE WITNESS: 18 THE COURT: yesterday. You were wearing glasses Do you need them? THE WITNESS: 21 THE COURT: 22 THE WITNESS: 23 MR. ZELINSKY: 25 Okay. All right. 20 24 Mr. Credico, you can be seated again. 17 19 Yes, Your Honor. Yes. I left them in the -- in the -- In the witness room? Yes. Your Honor, we will send someone to go get those glasses. THE COURT: All right. Okay. 680 1 I want to let you know that what's going to happen at 2 this point is Mr. Zelinsky is going to resume asking you 3 questions, then one of the lawyers for Mr. Stone has the 4 opportunity to ask you questions, and then Mr. Zelinsky will or 5 won't ask you a few follow-up questions after that. 6 It will go smoothly, I think, if you listen to the 7 question and answer it. If more is needed, or if some 8 elaboration is requested, the lawyer for either side that's 9 asking you the questions will ask for it. 10 All right. Let's bring in the jurors. 11 (Jurors enter the courtroom.) 12 THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: 13 THE COURT: All present, Your Honor. Good morning. Glad to see you're all 14 present. 15 trust that everyone was able to continue to follow my 16 instructions and not do any research about the case or discuss 17 the case. 18 And I hope you all had a pleasant evening. And I I did want to tell you one thing before we began. I 19 told you on Tuesday, in the long instructions that I gave you, 20 that if you see people associated with the trial in the hallway 21 and they don't greet you, they're not being rude; they're just 22 following the rules. 23 specifically tell you that that means me as well. 24 ordinarily, if I pass someone in the relatively tight hallways 25 that we're occupying, I would say hello and how are you; I'm And it occurs to me that I should While 681 1 not interacting with you at all. 2 anything against you or I'm being rude, but it wouldn't be 3 appropriate for me to have individual conversations with you 4 while the trial is ongoing. 5 you, I am doing that for a reason. 6 And it's not because I have So if I walk past you and ignore Also, I don't know if you know this, but you should 7 probably -- I should probably advise you at this point, that 8 the court is going to be closed on Monday for Veterans Day. 9 after today's proceedings, the next time we will gather in this 10 building will be Tuesday. 11 12 So All right. Mr. Credico, I would like to remind you that you're still under oath. 13 And you can proceed. 14 MR. ZELINSKY: 15 Thank you, Your Honor. DIRECT EXAMINATION (Continued) 16 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 17 Q. Good morning, Mr. Credico. 18 A. Good morning. 19 MR. ZELINSKY: 20 screen, please. 21 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 22 Q. 23 If we could put Exhibit 61 back on the Mr. Credico -THE JURORS: 24 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 25 Q. Can we get it a little bigger? Mr. Credico, when we finished yesterday, we were talking 682 1 about an email that you sent on January 6, 2017. 2 Do you remember that, sir? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. And is it the email in front of us? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. We had talked about that you had looked at your emails to 7 determine that you were not the person that Mr. Stone was 8 talking about in early August; is that right? 9 A. Yes, sir. 10 Q. And that you had told that to Mr. Stone; is that correct? 11 A. Yes, sir. 12 MR. ZELINSKY: I want to turn now to Exhibit 194. 13 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 14 Q. 15 January 16th, 2017, who is that email from? If you look at the email at the bottom, sent on 16 If you could read the top line that's been enlarged, 17 please, sir. 18 A. Roger Stone. 19 Q. Thank you. 20 21 And down there, there is a list. says, "Randy, You can riff beyond these. 22 23 I need." And on the top it says, "Frank, Please arrange to meet Randy to tape the following promos." 24 25 And you'll see it Do you see that? A. Yes. 683 1 Q. After the email you sent on January 6th, did you tape 2 promotional tag lines for Mr. Stone? 3 A. Yes, sir. 4 Q. And why did you do that? 5 A. I was paid for it. 6 Q. And how much, approximately, were you paid? 7 A. Yeah. 8 sure. 9 Q. You know, I don't remember; 1,000 or 2,000. I'm not I'm really not sure exactly. Thank you, sir. 10 I want to move you now to September of 2017. 11 Do you remember Roger Stone appearing before the 12 House Intelligence Committee on September 26th, 2017? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. In the time immediately prior to Mr. Stone's testimony, did 15 you and he have any conversations about his claims that you 16 were his back channel? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. And what did he say to you? 19 A. What did he say to me? 20 Q. And what did you say to him? 21 A. I said that I wasn't his back channel. 22 Q. Did he discuss Margaret Kunstler with you at all? 23 A. He had -- over the year, he had said that if -- that he had 24 a email that would prove that Margaret Kunstler would be -- 25 would be involved. That I was his back channel. That he could prove it through 684 1 Miss Kunstler that I was the back channel, that he would use 2 that connection with Miss Kunstler. 3 that I had with him, that Miss Kunstler was involved. 4 would -- that would be his -- that would be the linchpin. 5 Q. 6 revealing Ms. Kunstler's name? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. And why did it concern you? 9 A. Well, she's a very close friend of mine and, you know, And whatever text messages Thus, I And did it concern you that Mr. Stone was talking about 10 she's an older woman, and I didn't want to drag her through 11 this. 12 You know, she has always lived a very quiet, productive life. 13 Unlike her husband, who was productive but liked the press, she 14 did not like to be -- you know, she didn't like the fanfare, 15 and here she was going to be -- and, ultimately, she is dragged 16 through it. 17 Q. Thank you, sir. 18 A. -- I wanted to keep her out of it. 19 Q. Thank you. You know, I didn't want to drag her name through this. 20 But -- After Mr. Stone testified, did Mr. Stone ever ask or 21 seek your permission to name you as his intermediary? 22 A. No. 23 Q. Thank you. 24 25 MR. ZELINSKY: I want to turn now to Exhibit 62. If we could enlarge the header, the second header in this exhibit, 685 1 please. 2 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 3 Q. 4 sir? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. And what is the subject? 7 A. "Credico paragraph." 8 Q. And if you could go to the top of the header, please, the 9 header above that. Do you see the subject of that email that's been forwarded, 10 A. Yes. 11 paragraph." 12 Q. And who is the email from? 13 A. Roger Stone. 14 Q. And who is the email to? 15 A. Randy Credico, at two different accounts. 16 Q. Those are your e-mails; is that right, sir? 17 A. Yes. 18 "Thursday, October 19, 2017. MR. ZELINSKY: Fwd: Credico If we could turn now to the first 19 paragraph in that message. 20 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 21 Q. 22 "Mr. Stone has contemplated the disclosure, and is now 23 prepared, only reluctantly, to identify his source"? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Did it make you, at the time when you received this e-mail, Do you see the line there, sir, at the end, where it says, 686 1 feel better that Mr. Stone expressed reluctance to you to 2 identify his source? 3 A. A little, maybe. 4 Q. Thank you. 5 MR. ZELINSKY: Let's move on to the next paragraph. 6 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 7 Q. 8 You need not read it aloud. 9 finished reading it. I want you to take a moment, sir, to read this paragraph. 10 You can just look up when you've (Pause.) 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Sir, is this paragraph true and accurate? 13 A. Most of the stuff is true. 14 Q. And are these matters that you care about? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. And are these matters that you have spent much of your life 17 working on? 18 A. 19 Yes. MR. ZELINSKY: I want to move now to the line further 20 down, if you see the top -- I'm sorry -- the first line of that 21 paragraph, "The gentleman who confirmed for Mr. Stone." 22 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 23 Q. 24 on the Rockefeller Drug Laws and for the Mothers of Disappeared 25 were accurate; is that right? Now, you just said, sir, that the descriptions of your work 687 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. But you said that only most of this paragraph is accurate. 3 I would like you to read that first line that begins, "The 4 gentleman who confirmed." 5 please. 6 A. 7 Julian Assange's interview of June 12, 2016 with the British 8 ITV network, when Assange said he had emails related to 9 Hilary Clinton, which are pending publications, is If you could read that aloud, "The gentleman who confirmed for Mr. Stone the accuracy of 10 Randy Credico." 11 Q. Was that true, sir? 12 A. No. 13 Q. Did Mr. Stone ever talk to you about the June 12th 14 interview? 15 A. No. 16 Q. After Mr. Stone sent you this e-mail -- I'm sorry. 17 Around the time that Mr. Stone sent you this e-mail, 18 did you and Mr. Stone have a discussion about what you should 19 do if you were approached by the House Intelligence Committee? 20 A. 21 it, text messages. 22 Q. And what did Mr. Stone tell you you should do? 23 A. Well, what he -- whatever he texted me. 24 whatever -- I have to look at the text messages. 25 wanted me to go along with this, or to -- or -- I could take Yes. Once I got this, yes, there were discussions about You know, I think he 688 1 the Fifth Amendment -- take the Fifth Amendment. 2 Q. 3 did you understand that to be that he wanted you to go along 4 with something that was not true? 5 A. 6 out here in this paragraph. 7 Q. When you said, sir, he wanted you to go along with this, Well, basically, to follow this narrative here, that's laid Thank you. 8 MR. ZELINSKY: 9 THE COURT: Let's turn to Exhibit 63. Mr. Zelinsky, can I just have counsel at 10 the bench for a brief moment? 11 (Bench discussion:) 12 THE COURT: I realize that you're trying to punctuate 13 the end of his answers to keep him from talking too much. 14 you have a bit of a verbal tick of, when he answers, you go, 15 "Thank you." 16 MR. ZELINSKY: 17 THE COURT: 18 answer. MR. ZELINSKY: 20 THE COURT: 24 25 Understood, Your Honor. And that's not an appropriate thing for counsel to be doing when somebody is testifying. 22 23 Okay. And that signals that, You gave the right 19 21 But, MR. ZELINSKY: Thank you, Your Honor. MR. BUSCHEL: She said don't do that. I appreciate that. Your Honor. Thank you, 689 1 (Open court:) 2 MR. ZELINSKY: If we could turn to Exhibit 63. If 3 you could enlarge the two messages, please, Ms. Rohde, that are 4 at the top of the page. 5 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 6 Q. Mr. Credico, do you see the message marked 11? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Could you read the message that you sent on 9 November 17th, 2017 to Mr. Stone? 10 A. "I flew back from London. I saw Godfather II." 11 Q. And what did you send after that? 12 A. "Frank Pentangeli -- Frankie Five Angels." 13 Q. This reference to Frankie Five Angels, who were you 14 referencing? 15 A. A character from Godfather II, a Frank Pentangeli. 16 Q. And as -- you mentioned him earlier, in your testimony 17 yesterday, is that correct? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Had you and Stone, prior to this message, discussed 20 Frank Pentangeli? 21 A. 22 if there were text messages before. 23 Q. Whose idea -- what does this message refer to? 24 A. To Frankie Five Angels. 25 Q. Did Mr. Stone ever request that you do a Frank Pentangeli? I don't remember if we did talk about it before or after, I don't exactly remember. To Godfather II. The guy -- 690 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And what did you understand that to mean? 3 A. Well, you know, just -- can I elaborate on this, or do I 4 have to say yes or no here? 5 Frank Pentangeli is a guy who stone -- doesn't stonewall. 6 goes out there and says that he doesn't remember or doesn't 7 know the guy behind a Michael Corleone. 8 9 10 A couple of times. I just would like to say, He The problem with that is, is that in that movie -- in 1953 it takes place -- there are no text messages between Michael Corleone and Frank Pentangeli, no photos. 11 There's a ton of photos and text messages, and I've 12 done radio shows. 13 got up and said -- in front of any committee and said, I don't 14 know Roger Stone, it didn't make any sense. 15 If I did a Frank Pentangeli and I said -- I But, I think, if I did a Frank Pentangeli, I would 16 look like a fool, you know. 17 throw them off, you know. 18 Q. 19 Committee, sir? 20 A. 21 has a twisted sense of humor as well -- 22 But, I think, basically, it was to When you say "them," do you mean the House Intelligence Yeah. To really rebuff. THE COURT: To -- you know. All right. You know, but he Well, let me -- before we get 23 into whether you wanted to do it or it made sense to you, I 24 think the question was, what did you understand "Do a 25 Frank Pentangeli" to mean? If you could just answer that much. 691 1 THE WITNESS: All right. Okay. Well, I guess it 2 would be to not -- to divert -- to not -- to not recall. 3 not recall any of the conversations I had with Roger Stone or 4 any of the events that transpired. 5 MR. ZELINSKY: 6 14. 7 enlarge the document. 8 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 9 Q. I would like to move now to Exhibit If we could move on to the next page of Exhibit 14 and Sir, did you receive a letter from the House Intelligence 10 Committee on November 9th, 2017? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Did they request an interview with you? 13 A. Yes. 14 15 MR. ZELINSKY: I would like to move back to Exhibit 63. 16 17 To And I'm sorry. If we could go back for just a moment to Exhibit 14. 18 The next page. If we could enlarge the date, please. 19 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 20 Q. 21 requested an interview with you? 22 A. What was the date that the House Intelligence Committee November 9th, 2017. 23 MR. ZELINSKY: 24 And we could go to the messages at the bottom of the 25 page. If we could go back to Exhibit 63. 692 1 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 2 Q. 3 Mr. Stone? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And what did you write? 6 A. "My lawyer wants to see me today." 7 Q. What did Mr. Stone respond? 8 A. "Stonewall it. 9 plan" -- Sir, did you send a message on November 19th, 2017 to Pleads the fifth. Anything to save the 10 Q. And then there's a -- 11 A. -- "Richard Nixon." 12 Q. Did you respond to that message? 13 A. Yeah. 14 Q. How did you take the message that Mr. Stone sent when you 15 wrote "Ha, ha"? 16 A. 17 letter, and he's telling me to do this. 18 I supposed to do? 19 obviously. 20 Q. You said it "was not like a real laugh," sir? 21 A. No. I laughed, "Ha, ha." Not serious -- you know, not seriously. I mean, I got a And, you know, what am I -- you know, I got to talk to my lawyer, So, saying "Ha ha" was not like a real laugh. A sarcastic laugh. 22 MR. ZELINSKY: 23 Page 2, please. 24 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 25 Q. Let's move to Exhibit 15. Did you ultimately decline to be interviewed by the House 693 1 Intelligence Committee? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And what was the date on which you had your counsel notify 4 the House Intelligence Committee that you declined to be 5 interviewed? 6 A. November 20th. 7 Q. Did Mr. Stone's discussions with you and his instructions 8 play a role in your declining to be interviewed? 9 A. 10 A lot of people played the role, Mr. Stone amongst them, yes. 11 MR. ZELINSKY: Let's move now to Exhibit 64. 12 If we could enlarge the top eight messages. 13 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 14 Q. 15 Intelligence Committee, were you concerned about getting 16 subpoenaed? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. And you sent messages to that effect to Mr. Stone; is that 19 correct? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Are these messages at the top accurate? 22 were -- told the House Committee lawyer that "I will be getting 23 a subpoena"? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. And what did Mr. Stone tell you? Sir, after you declined to be interviewed by the House That is, that you 694 1 A. "When was your deadline?" 2 Q. And what did you respond? 3 A. "I was told that the House Committee lawyer told my lawyer 4 that I will be getting a subpoena." 5 Q. What did Mr. Stone tell you? 6 A. "That was the point at which your lawyers should have 7 said -- have told them you would assert your Fifth Amendment 8 rights, if compelled to appear." 9 Q. After you received word that you would be getting a 10 subpoena, did that make you more concerned about what 11 happened -- might happen with the House Intelligence Committee? 12 A. Yes. 13 MR. ZELINSKY: Let's move to the next set of text 14 messages, please, further down on the page. 15 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 16 Q. 17 Intelligence Committee would be sending you a subpoena? 18 A. What -- 93, here? 19 Q. Yeah. 20 A. "House Committee lawyers said I am getting a subpoena. 21 that a bluff?" 22 Q. And what else did you ask Mr. Stone? 23 A. "They won't send me a subpoena because republican won't 24 agree" -- 25 Q. Did you contact Mr. Stone to see about whether the House And what did Mr. -- Is 695 1 A. -- "right?" 2 Q. And what did Mr. Stone respond? 3 A. "I am trying to find out." 4 Q. And did you write to him? 5 A. "How does it work?" 6 Q. And what else did you say? 7 A. "If Adam Schiff says, We want him, or we're going to make a 8 big stink of it, they're going to say yes." 9 Q. Who, sir, at that time, was Adam Schiff? 10 A. He was the ranking chairman of the House Intel Committee. 11 Q. And what did Mr. Stone respond? 12 A. "Majority of the committee would have to vote to subpoena 13 you. 14 not clear they will do this. 15 Fifth, if subpoenaed, it makes it less likely." 16 Given the limited area they want to ask you about, it's MR. ZELINSKY: If they know you will take the Let's move now to Exhibit 65, page 1. 17 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 18 Q. 19 November 24th, 2017 to Roger Stone? 20 A. 21 I'm off to a trial in London. 22 appear in front of the Intel Committee." 23 Q. 24 front of the House Intelligence Committee? 25 A. Would you read the messages that you sent on "I got a subpoena. So, I'm going to talk about it and then I'll be back for the 11th, to At that point were you planning that you might appear in If we -- I was contemplating. 696 1 MR. ZELINSKY: If we could enlarge the messages 2 further down. 3 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 4 Q. 5 begin at, "All the stuff came." 6 A. All the -- yes. 7 Q. Well, let's start at the top -- 8 A. Okay. 9 Q. -- please, sir, "At any rate." 10 A. "At any rate, this is not about you. 11 my so-called back-channel status. 12 that I've met with Assange three times." 13 Q. If you could begin reading the messages that say, that 136? They don't care about They don't like the fact I'm going to stop you there for a moment, sir. 14 Had you, at that point, met with Assange? 15 A. I had met with Assange in September of 2017. I had gone 16 there to cover a trial for KPFA, and I did get in to see 17 Assange. 18 Q. And September 2017, that was after -- 19 A. A year after the election. 20 Q. -- the events we've been discussing? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. You talk about three times that you met with Assange. 23 A. Yes, I did. 24 6, I -- I met him twice. 25 the trial, there was a -- not a trial, but a court action Yes. I met him on November 6 and 13th, I believe; Because when I went back there for 697 1 bought by an Italian journalist against the Crown Prosecutor 2 Services in London, and I attended that for three days. 3 saw Mr. Assange during that period of time, twice. 4 Q. And that was all in 2017? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. And were those the meetings you were referring to in these 7 messages? 8 A. 9 first time I met him. And I A year afterwards. Probably, yes. Yes. Of course. You know, that's the 10 Q. And at the bottom, what did Mr. Stone respond to you? 11 A. "So the f-u-c-k what? 12 good one. 13 ever told me was he had the goods on -- in Hillary and would 14 publish them, which he, himself, said he -- in public before 15 you told me. 16 Assange is a journalist, and a damn Meeting with him is perfectly legal. It's a friggin' [sic] witch hunt." MR. ZELINSKY: If we could move to page 2, please. 17 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 18 Q. What did you respond to Mr. Stone? 19 A. "I told you to watch his Tweets." 20 Q. What else did you say, sir? 21 A. "That's what I was basing it on. 22 Tweets in October, not before that. 23 DNC stuff. 24 25 And all you I told you to watch his I knew nothing about the I told you to watch his Tweets in October." Okay. "I just followed his Tweets, but was not following him before the Democratic Convention. I didn't even 698 1 follow his Tweets before the Democratic Convention, but I did 2 in October. 3 Q. And then what did Mr. Stone respond? 4 A. "You never said anything about the DNC, but it was August." 5 Q. And you responded? 6 A. "It was not August because I didn't interview him or meet 7 him until August 26th." 8 Actually, it was 25th. 9 "That was my first communication with his secretary 10 in London, August 26th. I have the email with him. A week 11 later you asked me how I was able to get Assange on the show." 12 Q. And what did Mr. Stone respond? 13 A. "Not the way I remember it. 14 try to get one of us indicted for perjury." 15 Q. 16 seen, text messages with Mr. Stone in August; is that correct? 17 A. I -- I'm sorry. 18 Q. We went over yesterday -- 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. -- some text messages -- 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. -- you sent in August? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. And in particular, there was a text message you sent to 25 Mr. Stone saying Assange had kryptonite on Hilary Clinton; is Oh, well, I guess Schiff will And, Mr. Credico, you had earlier discussed, and we had Would you repeat it? 699 1 that right? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. You remember Mr. Stone did not respond to that message -- 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. -- is that correct? 6 When you say below, on November 24th, that "A week 7 later, you asked me how I was able to get Assange on the 8 show" -- 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. -- was that the first time Mr. Stone had asked you anything 11 about Julian Assange? 12 A. 13 I was talking about Gary Johnson. 14 MR. ZELINSKY: 15 further down on the same document. 16 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 17 Q. 18 front of the committee. 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. -- "First Amendment protection." 21 A. Right. 22 Q. Do you see that, sir? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. And then you say -- you wrote -- or, you see the line on 25 the page, "If they want to cite me for contempt, that's fine. Yes. It was actually more than a week later. It was when If we could move now to the next -- You write there, "I'm a journalist. I'm not speaking in I have" -- 700 1 The bigger picture is to protect the freedom of the press"? 2 A. Right. 3 Q. "I will not be talking to them." 4 A. Right. 5 Q. Did you write that? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. And why did you write that to Mr. Stone? 8 A. So he would think that I would not be talking to 'em. 9 would use that as a way not to -- a way to avoid taking the 10 Fifth would be to use my First Amendment rights as a 11 journalist. 12 Q. I And further down you note -- 13 MR. ZELINSKY: If we go to page 3, line 204. 14 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 15 Q. 16 sir? 17 A. 11-24, at 6:31 a.m.? 18 Q. No, sir. 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Would you read that message, please, sir? 21 A. "At any rate, I'm on so much heavy medication that I don't 22 remember any of the dates from last year." 23 Q. And the message there about -- is that message true, sir? 24 A. No. 25 Q. Why did you write it? -- you write -- do you see that at 1:13 a.m., 11-24-17, The bottom message, "At any rate." At 1:13:53. 701 1 A. I just -- why did I write it? 2 didn't want to discuss it. 3 Q. You didn't want to discuss what? 4 A. About the Fifth Amendment. 5 About anything. 6 dates. 7 8 I just wanted to get it -- I About the First Amendment. You know, I -- I don't remember any of the You know, I can't tell you specifically why I wrote that. 9 MR. ZELINSKY: Let's move to Exhibit 65, page 4. 10 This is line 211. 11 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 12 Q. 13 now with forensic evidence that you had no connection to 14 WikiLeaks"? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. When you refer to "forensic evidence," what do you mean? 17 A. I mean that he had no connection. 18 my text messages, he definitely -- I was not some kind of back 19 channel. 20 clear. 21 22 Did you send Mr. Stone a message that said, "You are clear Because I -- my emails, And I supposed he had no back channel. MR. ZELINSKY: So, he was If we could move to Exhibit 16, page 3. 23 If we could enlarge that, please, Ms. Rohde. 24 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 25 Q. Did there come a time after these messages when you were 702 1 subpoenaed by the House Intelligence Committee? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And when was the subpoena dated? 4 5 If you could -A. I can't -- could I get a napkin to wipe these glasses off? 6 Thank you. 7 THE COURT: 8 MR. ZELINSKY: 9 THE WITNESS: You've got Kleenex. Mr. Haley. Thanks. Thank you. 10 A. The date is 27th of November, 2017. 11 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 12 Q. Did you discuss the subpoena with Mr. Stone? 13 A. Yes. 14 MR. ZELINSKY: 15 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 16 Q. Could we go to Exhibit 69, please? You'll see there, the text message begins on line 291. 17 Could you read that, please, sir? 18 A. "I told your friend, Frank Morano, I would do his show, but 19 you have to get this idiot Morgan not to talk about this." 20 Q. Who is Morgan? 21 A. Morgan is the producer of a show -- a movie called Get Me 22 Roger Stone. 23 Q. Thank -- thank you. 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. If we could move to the next question, please, Mr. Credico. He was also guy I was working with in 2017. 703 1 Line 292, could you read that sentence that Mr. Stone 2 wrote you in response? 3 A. 4 accused of being the back channel, what [sic] do you like" -- 5 whether you like it -- "you would be accused of being the back 6 channel, what do you like it or not. 7 prison." 8 Q. What did you respond to Mr. Stone? 9 A. "I won't spend the [sic] day in prison. "Impossible. You are talking about it. 10 clean." 11 Q. What did Mr. Stone respond? 12 A. "Which means nothing." 13 "Whatever. 14 MR. ZELINSKY: 15 of this exhibit. 16 A. You will be I will visit you in I'm forensically I'll sleep real well tonight." I would like to move, now, to line 311 311, yes. 17 MR. ZELINSKY: 18 exhibit. 19 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 20 Q. I'm sorry. Actually, 310 of this You'll see there, you sent a message on 11-28-17. 21 Do you see that, sir? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. What did the message say? 24 A. "Did you watch?" 25 Q. Why were you asking Roger Stone whether he'd watched 704 1 something? 2 A. 3 "Did you watch" -- 4 Q. What did Mr. Stone write in response, on line 312? 5 A. Oh, yes. I don't know what I'm referring to here, "Did you watch?" 6 I'm sorry. This is the previous -- yes. Did you -- "you did well. Louis" -- Errol Louis -- 7 "misspeaks when he says I said you were my source. 8 at least say, I don't agree with Roger Stone on much, but we 9 have worked together for drug law reform." 10 MR. ZELINSKY: You could Let's turn now to Exhibit 69, line 11 316. 12 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 13 Q. Do you see the line at the top, sir? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Would you read it, please? 16 A. "The whole thing will be worthless unless you find a place 17 to do your Frank -- your Frank Cannon -- your Frank Cannon 10 18 July imitation. 19 that." 20 Q. 21 July? 22 A. Frank Cannon 10 July? 23 Q. Could you read the next line, please? 24 A. Yes. 25 Sure. Sure. Roger Stone this, Roger Stone Sir, are you familiar with anybody named Frank Cannon 10 No. But, Frank -- "Frank Pantsgele [sic]." MR. ZELINSKY: Let's move now to Exhibit 69, page 2. 705 1 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 2 Q. 3 actually happened? 4 A. Repeatedly. 5 Q. If you could read line 344. 6 A. "Some guy by the name of Lizza quoted you tonight." 7 Q. Keep reading, please. 8 A. "I don't know why you had to lie and say you had a back 9 channel. Sir, did you continue to try to tell Mr. Stone what had Now I had to give all of my forensic evidence to the 10 FBI. What a headache." 11 Q. 12 FBI? 13 A. No. 14 Q. Why did you tell Mr. Stone you had? 15 A. I was -- out of frustration that I was still -- this was 16 still hanging over my head. 17 Q. What else, on line 345, did you tell Mr. Stone? 18 A. "You could have just told him the truth, that you didn't 19 have a back channel. 20 until September of this year." 21 Q. What else did you tell Mr. Stone? 22 A. "You had no back channel, and you could have just told the 23 truth. 24 couldn't have you just told the truth? 25 you for perjury now." Sir, at that point, had you turned anything over to the And, so -- They now know that I was not in London Forensic experts agree, you had no back channel. Why You want me to cover 706 1 MR. ZELINSKY: If we could turn to the next page of 2 the exhibit. 3 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 4 Q. 5 respond? 6 A. Do I have to pronounce these four-letter words? 7 Q. Sir, you may just omit them in your response. 8 A. Okay. 9 has done anything wrong on illegal. After you wrote the lines you just read, what did Mr. Stone "What the" blank "is your problem? Neither of us You got the best press of 10 your" -- I can't see the whole thing. 11 can get away with asserting Fifth Amendment rights if you don't 12 want talk about." 13 Q. And then what else did Mr. Stone say regarding the FBI? 14 A. "And if you turned over anything to the FBI, you are a 15 fool." 16 Q. What did you respond to Mr. Stone? 17 A. "You open yourself up to six counts of perjury. 18 sure that wasn't sworn testimony, so you're probably clear." 19 20 MR. ZELINSKY: I guess, "life, and you But, I'm If we could move further down this exhibit, to line 386 -- I'm sorry -- line 369. 21 And, actually, Ms. Rohde, line 368 as well. 22 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 23 Q. 24 Intelligence Committee in any way? 25 A. On December 1st, 2017, had you responded to the House I don't know what date. We did respond. We did respond. 707 1 I think not yet, to that subpoena. 2 Q. On December 1st, 2017, what did you tell Mr. Stone to do? 3 A. "You need to amend your testimony before I testify on the 4 15th." 5 That was the date, yes. 6 Q. What did Mr. Stone tell you in response? 7 A. "If you testify, you are a fool because of Tromp" -- Trump 8 "I could never get away with a certain [sic]" -- with a 9 certain -- asserting "my Fifth Amendment rights, but you can. 10 I guarantee you you are the one who gets indicted for perjury, 11 if you're stupid enough to testify." 12 MR. ZELINSKY: 13 exhibit, on page 2. 14 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 15 Q. 16 do? 17 A. Could we move to line 386 of the In that same time period, what did Mr. Stone tell you to Here we go again. 18 "Start practicing your Pantagele [sic]." MR. ZELINSKY: Let's move now, to line 404. 19 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 20 Q. 21 you to take the Fifth? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Did you receive some advice from people telling you you 24 should take the Fifth? 25 A. Did you write a message to Mr. Stone about lawyers wanting Some lawyers told me to take the Fifth and some lawyers 708 1 told me to not take the Fifth. 2 Q. Let's move on. 3 At that time, did you want to testify in order to 4 clear the air? 5 A. 6 out Trump win the election. 7 Q. And if you testified, did you think that would help you? 8 A. If I testify, I could clear it up. 9 Q. And how would you have cleared it up? 10 A. I would have said that I wasn't a back channel. 11 nothing to do with this. 12 that ensued once I did take the Fifth. 13 Q. And was Mr. Stone a reason for you taking the Fifth? 14 A. He's one of many reasons why I took the Fifth. 15 what -- I finally did, but there's a thousand reasons why I 16 took the Fifth. I certainly did not want to be stuck as the guy that helped 17 I had And then I wouldn't have the problems You know, I got advice from him. One of the reasons, and I've said this before, is 18 because I did not want to drag in Mrs. Kunstler into this 19 process. 20 walking a tightrope. 21 I was walking a Flying Wallenda-type of thing, I didn't know what to do at that point. Do I protect myself being associated with 22 Donald Trump? 23 Mrs. Kunstler's reputation. 24 25 If I -- if I do that, then I sacrifice So, that's the line I was walking at that particular point. 709 1 Q. Were you afraid that Roger Stone would disclose 2 Mrs. Kunstler? 3 A. Well, he had been saying it, yes. 4 Q. And you were afraid that that would harm her reputation? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Was that part of the reason you took the Fifth? 7 A. Yes. 8 9 MR. ZELINSKY: If we could move to line 433, on the following page. 10 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 11 Q. 12 Intercept"? 13 A. 14 business with Roger Stone's father, but that was a long time 15 ago." 16 Q. What is "The Intercept"? 17 A. Intercept is a -- it's an online liberal magazine run by 18 Glenn Greenwald and Jeremy Scahill. 19 radio Intercepted. 20 Q. 21 business with Roger Stone's father, but that was a long time 22 ago," what is it a reference to? 23 A. 24 the -- from The Godfather, congressional testimony. 25 Do you see line 433, sir? -33? It begins, "I told The "I told The Intercept that I was in the olive oil That was a radio show, I did that show, yes. And did you -- this reference, "I was in the olive oil It's reference to Frank Pentangeli's testimony in front of MR. ZELINSKY: Let's move now to Exhibit 17, page 3. 710 1 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 2 Q. 3 the House Intelligence Committee that you were taking the 4 Fifth? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Following this communication -- On December 12th, 2017, did you ultimately communicate to 7 MR. ZELINSKY: 8 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 9 Q. Moving to Exhibit 69. -- did you discuss -- 10 MR. ZELINSKY: Thank you. This is going to be page 11 8. 12 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 13 Q. 14 ongoing investigations with Mr. Stone? 15 A. -- did there come a time when you continued to discuss I'm sorry? 16 MR. ZELINSKY: If we could move one more page, 17 please, Ms. Rohde, to 552. 18 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 19 Q. So you just testified that you took the Fifth? 20 A. Right. 21 Q. After that, did there come a time when you continued to 22 discuss these matters with Mr. Stone? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. On December 24th, 2017, what did you write to Mr. Stone? 25 A. "I met Assange for first time this year, September 7th. 711 1 Documents prove that." 2 Q. And what did you tell Mr. Stone to do? 3 A. "You should be honest with FBI. 4 Be honest." 5 Q. 6 your statement about being honest to the FBI? 7 A. 8 won't either. There was no back channel. What did Mr. Stone tell you in response to being hon- -- "I'm not talking to the FBI. 9 MR. ZELINSKY: And if you are smart, you Let's move to Exhibit 74, page 2. 10 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 11 Q. 12 message at the bottom that begins, "Maybe." Shortly thereafter, on January 11th, 2018, you'll see a 13 Do you see that? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Sir, that reference to "your back channel," who -- are you 16 referencing yourself in that message? 17 A. No. 18 Q. Are you referencing the individual Mr. Stone had referred 19 to in August? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Moving now to -- 22 A. Actually, September, yes. 23 "Maybe your back channel knows more than I do." Oh, yes, in August. 24 Q. Moving now, to Exhibit 78. 25 A. Yeah. I'm sorry, yes. You'll see at the bottom -- 712 1 Q. -- you wrote a message to Mr. Stone on January 25th, 2018. 2 A. "I got Mueller subpoena. 3 Q. Who is referred to as "Mueller"? 4 A. He is -- Mueller is the head of the Mueller investigation. 5 Q. Special Counsel Robert Mueller? 6 A. Special Counsel Robert Mueller, yes. 7 Q. And did Roger Stone respond -- first, let's say, did you 8 actually have a subpoena at that point, sir? 9 A. No, I did not. 10 Q. Why did you tell that to Roger Stone? 11 A. Because I really wanted to -- I was very frustrated at that 12 time, that here I am, stuck. 13 and now I am the guy who is the back channel, basically. 14 Everyone's extrapolating. 15 you have your right to take the Fifth Amendment, but people 16 extrapolate that you're hiding something. 17 am now going to be connected with the guy who is -- whatever. 18 Q. 19 gotten the subpoena from Special Counsel Mueller? 20 A. Did you?" I'm sorry. I answered and I took the Fifth Once you say that, no matter what, And there you go, I What did Roger Stone respond when you told him you had "Waste of your time. 21 "Who?" 22 "Mueller." Tell him to go" blank "himself." 23 Q. If we could turn now, to Exhibit 79, page 12. 24 are additional text messages. 25 A. Yeah. Sir, these Do you recognize them? 713 1 Q. You appear in purple, the messages you send; is that 2 correct? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. On March 5th, 2018, did you send a message to Roger Stone 5 that began, "You had nothing"? 6 A. At the very top it says, "I'm sure Trump" -- that one? 7 Q. No, sir. 8 A. Oh, "You had" -- I'm sorry. 9 Q. -- March 5th that you also sent; is that correct? 10 A. May [sic] 5th, yes. 11 Assange never spoke to you. 12 honest from this point on, because you purge [sic] yourself" -- 13 you purge -- you -- didn't "purge yourself." 14 You perjured yourself -- "in front of the House Committee." 15 There is a -- MR. ZELINSKY: 16 12. 17 A. 18 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 19 Q. Yes. "You had nothing to do with it. You are a liar. But try to be What is the word? If we could move to Exhibit 79, page Yeah. You write, "You weasel your way." 20 Do you see that, sir? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. And what did you say to Mr. Stone? 23 A. "You weasel your way into this story in which you are not 24 part of. 25 And Trump can't stand you, and you know that." MR. ZELINSKY: Let's move on to page 12 of this 714 1 exhibit. 2 Ms. Rohde, if we could continue to scroll down. 3 Keep going, please. 4 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 5 Q. 6 what he had said to Congress? 7 A. Repeatedly I did. 8 Q. And, sir, how did you know what Mr. Stone had told 9 Congress? Did you, again, tell Mr. Stone that you had issues with 10 A. Because he sent me a letter -- what he told Congress, he 11 sent me that email back in -- back in -- before -- the one that 12 he submitted, I got the email from him. 13 MR. ZELINSKY: 14 down on the same slide. 15 Let's move on to the next -- further Keep going further down, please, Ms. Rohde. 16 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 17 Q. 18 March 5th, 2018, at 6:33 p.m.? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Not the first one, but the one that begins, "I decided"? 21 A. "I decided not to be your patsy, again. 22 trouble, my friend." 23 Q. 24 wrote this message, did you feel that you had been 25 Roger Stone's patsy in the past? Do you see the sentence -- the message that begins on You are in Without getting into the details at this point, when you 715 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And did you feel that he was making you into his patsy 3 again? 4 A. Yes. 5 MR. ZELINSKY: Let's go to Exhibit 81. 6 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 7 Q. 8 March 9th, 2018, did you send an email to Mr. Stone? 9 A. No. 10 Q. Sir, if you could look at the bottom -- 11 A. Oh, the bottom. 12 Q. -- March 9, 2018. 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And did you attach a hyperlink to an article? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Let's move to the next page of the exhibit. 17 article something that had been written by Mr. Stone on his 18 website that same day? 19 A. If you look at the message on the bottom, on It says "From Roger Stone" here. "You are hitting below the belt." Was that Yes. 20 MR. ZELINSKY: Let's move to page 4 of this exhibit. 21 If we could enlarge the paragraph that begins, 22 "Credico's talents as an impressionist." 23 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 24 Q. If you could read that paragraph, sir? 25 A. "Credico's talents as an impressionist were such that 716 1 during Tom Golisano's campaign, Randy called the campaign 2 manager, as Tom, and fired the young man. 3 temperament made the gag believable. 4 Golisano's "I continued to maintain that Credico, who has heard 5 me rant over martinis and cigars, can be heard in the voice 6 message to Governor Eliot Spitzer's father, warning him that 7 his son's corruption would soon bring him down. 8 impression of me is incredible." 9 Q. Credico Sir, there's a reference there to a voice message to 10 Governor Eliot Spitzer's father. 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. What is Mr. Stone -- did you understand Mr. Stone to be 13 referring to when he wrote those lines? 14 15 MR. BUSCHEL: Objection. The grounds are in the brief, Your Honor. 16 17 Do you see that? THE COURT: All right. The record is complete on that, and your objection is noted. 18 You can answer the question. 19 A. Yes, that was a phone call that Mr. Stone made to Eliot 20 Spitzer's father, Bernard, sometime in 2007. 21 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 22 Q. And what, to your knowledge, did the phone call consist of? 23 A. Well, it was a late-night phone call, you know, like 24 2 o'clock in the morning, I believe. 25 nasty, sordid, semi-threatening phone call to Old Man Spitzer. And it was a very vile, 717 1 Q. And were there press reports that said Mr. Stone had made 2 this phone call? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. And what, if anything, did Mr. Stone say about you in 5 relation to the phone call? 6 A. 7 him; he was at the theater. 8 Q. Sir, if you could just say what he said about you. 9 A. Okay. Well, immediately, he said it was -- it couldn't have been And then that -- He said that I called up. I remember this. He said I got -- I was in 10 Argentina. I had flown in to Daytona through 11 Miami; Daytona, to see a woman who was dying of cancer. 12 remember this. 13 Rockefeller Drug Law former prisoner. We were doing a documentary on her. I She was a 14 And so when I arrived there, I got a call from 15 Elizabeth Benjamin from the Daily News, saying that, Are 16 you" -- Roger said that you're the one that imitated him and 17 called up Spitzer's father, that was you on the phone, and 18 spoofed the number. 19 Whatever spoofing is, I spoofed his number and called 20 up and left this message, at 3 o'clock in the morning, 21 imitating him. 22 Q. 23 him? 24 A. No. 25 Q. And was there a lot of unwanted publicity concerning this That's what he -- And, sir, had you left a message in doing an imitation of 718 1 matter surrounding you? 2 A. 3 who would want to do something like that? 4 the guy. 5 Q. And how did that make you feel at the time? 6 A. Feel 12 years ago? 7 Q. And was that one of other negative incidents that you have 8 had in the past with Mr. Stone? 9 A. Yes. It was -- first, it was so absurd. We've had squabbles. 11 some -- Most likely, not very good. We've had -- you know, there's been 12 MR. ZELINSKY: 13 THE COURT: 14 THE WITNESS: 15 THE COURT: 16 THE WITNESS: Let's move now -- You asked him a question. Okay. So you've had squabbles before -Yeah. Yeah, over the years, you know. 17 I'd see him every three or four years. 18 not very happy with that and -- 19 THE COURT: 20 THE WITNESS: 22 23 I don't even know Well, we've had many -- many, you know, squabbles. 10 21 And, you know, All right. This is 2007, and I was So -- I don't know. Yes, we've had -- this is just one of many over the years, yeah. THE COURT: So let's go back to this article that you were talking about. 24 Ask your next question. 25 MR. ZELINSKY: Thank you, Your Honor. 719 1 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 2 Q. 3 said you didn't want to be Mr. Stone's patsy again. 4 remember that? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Was this occasion with Mr. Spitzer one of the times that 7 you were referencing? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Let's move to the fourth page of this article, the You referred earlier to a message that we saw where you Do you Yes. That was the big one, yes. 10 paragraph that begins, "It was Randy Credico." 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Could you read that paragraph aloud, sir? 13 A. All right. 14 attention, in mid-July 2016, the public claim of WikiLeaks' 15 publisher, Julian Assange, that he had significant material on 16 the democrats and Hilary Clinton and would publish those 17 documents. 18 attention to WikiLeaks and was not following the WikiLeaks or 19 Assange feeds on Twitter." 20 Q. 21 that article, where it says that "It was Randy Credico who 22 brought to my attention, in mid-July 2016, that the publisher 23 of -- the public claim of WikiLeaks' publisher, 24 Julian Assange" -- was that true? 25 A. "It was Randy Credico who first brought my Up until this time, I had not been paying much Sir, the top of that message, where it says -- the top of No. 720 1 Q. Did you bring that to Mr. Stone's attention in mid-July? 2 A. Absolutely not true. 3 Q. How did it make you feel at the time, that Mr. Stone was 4 publicly claiming this? 5 A. 6 that. 7 Q. 8 that begins, "When the House Intelligence Committee sought to 9 question." That -- in that article, yes, I was not very happy with Let's move now to page 9 of the exhibit. The paragraph 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Could you read that, sir? 12 A. "When the House Select Committee on Intelligence sought to 13 question Credico regarding what he considered to be a perfectly 14 legal activity, well within his scope of operating as a 15 journalist, the veteran comic asserted his Fifth Amendment 16 rights. 17 hours, under oath, explaining my comments." 18 Q. 19 urged you to take the Fifth? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Let's move to the next paragraph. 22 I, on the other hand, testified for four and a half Sir, had Roger Stone -- we just looked at the messages -- Could you read that, please, sir? 23 A. "Sadly, Credico, having dodged under-oath testimony in 24 front of the Congress, is now having amnesia regarding what 25 really transpired. Perhaps the out-of-work comedian is 721 1 embarrassed that he was talking out of school prior to his 2 landing Assange as a big-get on his radio show." 3 Q. 4 this message -- this article? 5 A. 6 pleased with this. Sir, how did it make you feel at the time when you read I don't remember the exact emotion. 7 MR. ZELINSKY: 8 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 9 Q. what had happened? 11 A. 13 Let's move to Exhibit 82. In March of 2018, did you consider publicly proclaiming 10 12 Obviously, I was not Yes. MR. ZELINSKY: If you could pull up -- enlarge the first part there, Ms. Rohde. 14 Thank you. 15 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 16 Q. What is the date of this email? 17 A. March 10th. 18 Q. And who is it from? 19 A. Roger Stone. 20 Q. And who is it to? 21 A. To Randy Credico. 22 Q. And what did Mr. Stone write? 23 A. "If you go on with Chris Hayes, be sure to mention this." 24 Q. Who is Chris Hayes? 25 A. Chris Hayes is the host of MSNBC show, All in with 722 1 Chris Hayes. 2 Q. 3 telling the truth about what had happened? 4 A. 5 several shows, Erin Burnett and Ari Melber. At that time, were you considering going on Chris Hayes and I was considering doing Hayes. 6 7 MR. ZELINSKY: Let's look a little further down this exhibit. 8 9 I was considering doing If you can enlarge it please, Ms. Rohde, the rest of the text. 10 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 11 Q. 12 get information related to Libya for Mr. Stone? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And did you send that email to Ms. Kunstler? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. How did you interpret Roger Stone forwarding this message 17 to you regarding Ms. Kunstler? 18 A. 19 Mrs. Kunstler involved in it. 20 Q. 21 Mr. Stone? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. What -- let's move to Exhibit 84. 24 A. Concerned about him doing this, yes. 25 Q. Did you continue to speak with Mr. Stone? Sir, is this the message that you sent regarding trying to Well, a reminder that he had this email that had At that time, were you still -- were you concerned about 723 1 A. Yes. 2 MR. ZELINSKY: 3 says -- yes, Ms. Rohde. 4 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 5 Q. Do you see this email on March 10th, 2018? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Do you see where Mr. Stone writes, "I have no interest in 8 fighting with you. 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. What is Sparks? 11 A. Sparks is a steak restaurant -- upper echelon steak 12 restaurant on the -- somewhere midtown. 13 Q. 14 Mr. Stone and unhappy with what he was doing, did you continue 15 to maintain contact with him? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Why did you maintain contact? 18 A. You know, I certainly did -- I wanted to neutralize all of 19 this. 20 some kind of -- you know, this is 2018. 21 want to escalate this. 22 talk about it. 23 would not go like that previous email that he sent regarding -- 24 that Libya email. 25 Could we enlarge the message that Perfect. Want to go to Sparks"? During this time that you said you were frustrated with I did not want this to -- you know, I want to maintain I really -- I didn't But, at the same time, I knew I had to And I was trying to keep him neutralized so he MR. ZELINSKY: Let's move to Exhibit 89. 724 1 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 2 Q. Who is this email from? 3 A. From me. 4 Q. And when was it sent? 5 A. Wednesday, March 14th. 6 Q. And what is the subject line? 7 A. "I'm being misquoted." 8 Q. And who is it to? 9 A. To Roger. 10 Q. And you see the last line of the email, that begins, "You"? 11 A. Last line? 12 Q. Yes, sir. 13 A. Where am I? 14 Q. Yes. 15 A. "I told them that you have plausible deniability, and I 16 told you that. 17 miss, on purpose, what I was trying to say. 18 perjury, and I can attest to that." 19 Q. 20 believe it to be true, that Mr. Stone had not committed 21 perjury? 22 A. No, I did not believe it was true. 23 Q. Why did you send this message to Mr. Stone? 24 A. Because I didn't want to be bombarded with, you know, a 25 bunch of negative stories and nasty text messages and email. "You did not commit perjury"? "I told them that" -- that one there? If you keep reading. Check out the Tweets to confirm. They totally You did not commit Is that -- at the time you sent that message, did you I 725 1 wanted to -- you know, I didn't want him to get upset. 2 know, look, I didn't want to be a victim of some kind of smear 3 job at that point. 4 You So, when I said this, I told him, you know, "You have 5 plausible deniability," which he did. 6 could say that. He could say this. He He could check out my -- I gave him an out. 7 MR. ZELINSKY: 8 If you could enlarge the message there, Ms. Rohde, 9 from where the text is, all the way down to "you should do." 10 No. 11 Thank you. Turning now to Exhibit 91. Where you were before, Ms. Rohde, please. 12 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 13 Q. 14 considering doing an interview to set the record straight with 15 someone named Erin Burnett; is that right? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Who is Erin Burnett? 18 A. Erin Burnett is the host of Out Front with Erin Burnett, 19 7 o'clock, Monday through Friday, on CNN. 20 Q. 21 did Mr. Stone tell you you should do on Erin Burnett? 22 A. 23 At that point, you mentioned earlier that you were And what, on March 18th, 2018, all the way at the bottom, Frank Pentangeli. MR. ZELINSKY: 24 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 25 Q. Moving now, to Exhibit 93. Five days later, on March 23rd, 2018, what did Mr. Stone 726 1 tell you you should do? 2 A. "Very good. 3 Q. Did you continue to be concerned about Mr. Stone during 4 this time? 5 A. Use Pantangela" -- Pentangeli. I did not want to rile Mr. Stone. 6 MR. ZELINSKY: Moving to Exhibit 112. 7 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 8 Q. Did Mr. Stone send you an email on April 9th, 2018? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. And do you see the part there that begins, "You are a rat"? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And could you read that? 13 A. "You are a rat. 14 your mouth. 15 going to take that dog away from you. 16 thing you can do about it either, because you are a weak, broke 17 piece of S-H-I-T. 18 Q. 19 Mr. Stone? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. And about the position he'd put you in? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. There's a reference there, sir, to a dog, "I'm going to 24 take that dog away from you." 25 A. Begin reading there, please, sir. A stoolie. You backstab your friends, run My lawyers are dying to rip you to shreds. I'm Not a frigging [sic] I will prove to the world you're a liar." At that time were you angry, as you said before, with Yes. 727 1 Q. Do you see that? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Do you have a dog? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And are you close to the dog? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. And do you have any other family or anything besides the 8 dog? 9 A. I have no wife and no kids. 10 Q. Did Mr. -- 11 A. I have a sister, a sister that's still alive. 12 Q. Did Mr. Stone know what the dog meant to you? 13 A. Well, people -- I'm sure -- I'm sure he did. 14 know -- 15 Q. To your knowledge? 16 A. I was with the dog for the -- I'd been around the dog for 17 the previous 12 years. 18 2006. 19 MR. ZELINSKY: I'm -- you I had the dog since 2006, January of Moving to Exhibit 121. 20 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 21 Q. 22 matters with Mr. Stone? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. And did Mr. Stone continue to discuss Ms. Kunstler with 25 you? In this time period, did you continue to discuss these 728 1 A. Yes. 2 MR. ZELINSKY: Moving to Exhibit 125. 3 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 4 Q. What did you write to Mr. Stone on May 21st, 2018? 5 A. "Go right ahead. 6 Q. I'm sorry. 7 "You should have." 8 A. 9 Where? She's not Assange's lawyer." Below that. Let's start at the first message, All the way at the bottom. Where am I? Here, "You should have." "You should have just been honest with the House 10 Intel Committee. You've opened yourself up to perjury charges 11 like an idiot. 12 get into rehab and get that memory straight." 13 Q. What did Mr. Stone respond? 14 A. I don't see it here. 15 Q. Just above that, do you see -- 16 A. Oh, yes. 17 Keep running your mouth and I'll file a bar complaint against 18 your friend Margaret." 19 Q. 20 referring to? 21 A. Margaret Ratner Kunstler. 22 Q. Had you put Mr. Stone directly in touch with Ms. Kunstler 23 after the election? 24 A. Yes, I did. 25 Q. And why had you done that? You have different versions. "You are so full of S-H-I-T. Maybe you need to You got nothing. And when he says "your friend Margaret," who is he 729 1 A. Well, sometime after the election, he wanted me to contact 2 Mrs. Kunstler. 3 Judge Napolitano about getting Julian Assange a pardon and 4 needed to talk to Mrs. Kunstler about it. 5 And I sat on it. 6 act on it. 7 conversation. 8 Q. 9 about having put Ms. Kunstler directly in touch with Mr. Stone? He called me up and said that he had spoken to So I said, Okay. And I told her -- I told her -- she didn't And then, eventually, she did, and they had a And at this time period, in May of 2018, how did you feel 10 A. 11 should have never done that, you know. 12 blame me for doing that. 13 Q. 14 about Mr. Stone? 15 A. Remainder of 2018? 16 Q. Yes, sir. 17 A. Well, yes, I did. 18 Q. Why were you concerned about Mr. Stone? 19 A. Well, this is it, right here. 20 bringing Margaret into this, Mrs. Kunstler into it. 21 the crux of it. 22 Q. 23 again? 24 A. 25 I was -- I was ashamed of myself that I had done that. I I don't blame him; I For the remainder of 2018, did you continue to be concerned This is the crux of it, is That was Were you also concerned that he would make you his patsy That already happened. MR. ZELINSKY: I was the patsy at that point. Moving, now, to government's 730 1 demonstrative exhibit only, 204. 2 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 3 Q. 4 read the highlighted section? 5 A. "You had one before that you referred to." 6 Q. And that is sent on September 18th, 2016; is that right? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Could you read the next highlighted -- 9 A. Wait. 10 Q. Can you read the next highlighted section, please, sir? 11 A. "And, by the way, your friend did not have a meeting with 12 Julian Assange. 13 Q. That was sent on October 3rd, 2016; is that right? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Did you also send a message that's highlighted on 16 January 6, 2017? 17 A. January 6, yes. 18 Q. What did it say? 19 A. "There's a guy -- there's the guy you were talking about 20 early August." 21 Q. 22 Mr. Stone? 23 A. January 11 -- I don't see anything here. 24 Q. It's highlighted there on the bottom there, sir. 25 A. Oh. Sir, do you see the first line of that exhibit? Could you September 18, 2016, yes. That's a complete lie." And one year later, on January 11, 2018, what did you tell "Maybe your back channel knows more than I do." 731 1 Q. Sir, were any of these messages supposed to be a reference 2 to yourself? 3 A. No. 4 MR. ZELINSKY: 5 Thank you, Your Honor. 6 THE COURT: 7 10 All right. Why don't we take our mid-morning break before we begin any cross-examination. 8 9 That's all. I'm going to caution the jurors not to talk about the case with each other or with anyone else, and we'll resume at approximately 10 after 11. 11 (Jurors leave the courtroom.) 12 THE COURT: The witness and everyone is excused, and 13 we'll resume, beginning with the defense asking Mr. Credico 14 questions after the break, at 10 after 11. 15 (Recess.) 16 THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: 17 Your Honor, recalling Criminal Case Number 19-18, United States of America v. Roger Stone. 18 THE COURT: 19 (Jurors enter the courtroom.) 20 THE COURT: 21 MR. BUSCHEL: 22 May it please the Court. 23 All right. All right. Can we bring the jury in? Mr. Buschel, you can proceed. Thank you, Judge. CROSS-EXAMINATION 24 BY MR. BUSCHEL: 25 Q. Good morning. 732 1 A. Good morning, sir. 2 Q. Good morning. 3 To be clear, Mr. Credico, you did not deliver any 4 messages from Julian Assange to Roger Stone? 5 A. No. 6 Q. Correct? 7 A. Yeah, you're correct, sir. 8 Q. And, likewise, you did not deliver any messages from 9 Roger Stone to Julian Assange, true? 10 A. Exactly. 11 Q. You were not an intermediary between -- to or for WikiLeaks 12 and Roger Stone? 13 A. Exactly. 14 Q. Even though you led, in all fairness, Roger Stone to 15 believe that you were one? 16 A. I disagree. 17 Q. Fair enough. 18 We'll go through some items together. You will agree with me, though, that you have, in the 19 past, lied to Roger Stone? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. In fact, you went through some of those lies during your 22 direct examination, didn't you? 23 A. Probably. 24 Q. Do you recall that you did this morning? 25 A. You'll have to show me the individual lies. 733 1 Q. But you know that you have? 2 A. Over the years or specifically? 3 Q. From this morning. Just from this morning. 4 A. From this morning? Did I lie to the prosecutors this 5 morning? 6 Q. 7 prosecutors have identified. 8 A. 9 rebuffs, yes. No. No. That there are lies to Roger Stone that the There were exaggerations. 10 Q. Fair enough. 11 Roger Stone. 12 There were lies. There were Let's start with your relationship with It began in 2002, didn't it? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. You met him while you were working for the William Moses 15 Kunstler Fund for Racial Justice, true? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. New York Mothers for the Disappeared, an activist 18 organization, correct? 19 A. 20 the Mothers of the New York Disappeared. 21 Q. And you sought to have the Rockefeller laws repealed? 22 A. Yes, I did. 23 Q. Those were drug laws? 24 A. Those were the drug laws in New York state, yes. 25 Q. You felt they were oppressive drug laws? The Kunstler Fund was the organization, and the subset was 734 1 A. They're racist, draconian, and repressive. 2 Q. And Roger Stone helped you with that? 3 A. Roger Stone enlisted me with the Golisano campaign. 4 they used that as a campaign issue. 5 it. 6 Q. 7 campaign, true? 8 A. 9 I did no work -- you know, I was supposed to work on the And Put a lot of money into And I was very grateful for that work. In 2004 you and he worked on Al Sharpton's presidential No, not really true. I introduced him to Al Sharpton, but 10 Al Sharpton campaign, but he took it over. 11 Q. So, you introduced him, and he helped Al Sharpton, correct? 12 A. He took over the campaign. 13 Q. Fair enough. 14 both like impressions, correct? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Okay. 17 cigars? 18 A. 19 martinis, yes. 20 Q. But we got to be -- you're careful of that now. 21 A. Right. 22 Q. As you testified, correct? 23 A. I would love to have one, but, I can't. 24 Q. Okay. 25 You two have a relationship based on that you He is a big fan of John Byner. And you have a like of -- a mutual like of smoking Cigars and -- I know where you're going to go next -- Fair enough. And we'll get into this, but in 2007 was this 735 1 voicemail message to Mr. Spitzer's -- Governor Spitzer's father 2 that was referenced, correct? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. That was 12 years ago, correct? 5 A. It was sometime September, October, 2007, yes. 6 Q. And 19 minus 7; 12? 7 A. 12 years ago, yes. 8 Q. Good. 9 voiceover work for a Broward Sheriff's Office race in Broward In 2008, Roger Stone recruited you to do some 10 County, Florida? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. You did that work, didn't you? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And you got paid for that work? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. In 2012 he asked you to participate in another Broward 17 County Sheriff's race, correct? 18 A. 19 working against him, but I ended up working with him. 20 inveigled into that one. No, he didn't. 21 I did do it, thinking I was I was Would you like me to explain? 22 Q. Not really. 23 A. Okay. 24 Q. Let's continue. 25 He did not. In 2016, you would frequently have Roger Stone on 736 1 your show, true? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And overall, before your testimony today, you had been 4 interviewed many times by the FBI and the Special Counsel's 5 Office? 6 A. 7 was last year. 8 towards the end, yes. 9 Q. So, many times? 10 A. Not many times. 11 Q. More than once? 12 A. I can count -- the FBI or the Mueller investigation 13 investigators? 14 Q. Let's do them collectively. 15 A. Okay. 16 before I testified before the grand jury, another time -- a 17 few in October of 2018, and then, again, December 6th of 2018. 18 Q. 19 process, haven't you? 20 A. I haven't paid them, but I've hired them. 21 Q. You have lawyers working for you? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. They gave you advice throughout this entire process? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Practiced and prepared with them and with the government, Over the last couple -- let me see. Wait a second. First time, the FBI, What -- let me see. 2018, Which one do you want? So, I can tell you that I was interviewed one time You hired lawyers to give you advice throughout this entire 737 1 true? 2 A. With my lawyers, did I practice and prepare? 3 4 MR. ZELINSKY: A. Objection. No. 5 THE COURT: 6 prepared. 7 A. 8 BY MR. BUSCHEL: 9 Q. I think he can answer the question if he Yes, I prepared for this day prior. Yes. Your relationship with Roger Stone throughout the years, 10 not just what happened this morning, is, is you have lied to 11 him throughout the years? 12 A. Throughout the years? 13 Q. Yes. 14 A. Throughout the years? 15 Q. Yes, since 2002. 16 A. Well, give me some instances and I'll tell you if they're 17 lies. 18 Q. Since 2002. 19 A. Since 2002? Okay? 20 21 I can tell -- You really want to go into that, about lies? We can go into lies. want, sir. 22 THE COURT: 23 focused questions. 24 answer it. 25 We can start in 2002, if you All right. I think you need to ask So, ask a specific question and let him MR. BUSCHEL: Very good. Yes, Judge. 738 1 BY MR. BUSCHEL: 2 Q. 3 on August 29th interview, that you did not speak to 4 Julian Assange -- about Julian Assange with Roger Stone until 5 in or around September of 2016. 6 A. 7 message prior to that, but there was no conversation. 8 get a text message back. 9 Q. So when they asked you that, that was confusing to you? 10 A. I had not seen my -- well, because there was no 11 conversation. 12 September 9th, when he wanted Julian Assange on his radio show. 13 And that's what I remember. 14 that we had about it. 15 saying that I had Assange on my show the following week, but 16 there was no response to it. You originally testified to the Special Counsel's Office, Any conversation over the phone, yes. 17 I sent him a text I didn't I distinctly remember the conversation on That was the first conversation But, he had -- I sent him a text message So, it wasn't a conversation. And I didn't see those 18 emails until December 6, 2018. 19 Q. So -- 20 A. Or text messages. 21 Q. Without those emails, without -- 22 A. Text messages. 23 Q. -- those texts, your testimony was incorrect? 24 A. On that particular -- well, it depends. 25 hairs on what a conversation is? You want to split A conversation is a 739 1 conversation. 2 August 19th, I forgot that I sent him a text message -- which I 3 did to a lot of other people, too -- that Assange was going to 4 be on my show the following week. 5 A text message was not a conversation. On So, the first conversation that we had, correctly, I 6 identified that on September 9, 2016, when he got me 7 Gary Johnson on the phone, and he wanted something in 8 reciprocation. 9 And I said, Yeah, what do you want? 10 He wanted Julian Assange, and I said I would look 11 into it. So, that was the conversation that we had about 12 Julian Assange. 13 thing, that I was going to have Assange on my show, which I 14 also sent to -- 15 Q. Mr. Credico -- 16 A. Yes? 17 Q. -- let me ask you another question. 18 A. All right. 19 right. 20 Q. 21 media, correct? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. It's @Credico2016? 24 A. There's two of them. 25 Q. One of them is @Credico2016? Everything else was a one-way, braggadocio Well, just wanted to straighten that out. You have a Twitter account, which is a form of social All 740 1 A. Yes. Yes. 2 Q. And do you remember the first time that you Tweeted about 3 Assange? 4 A. 5 it was sometime in June, yes. 6 Q. June of 2016? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. And is it true that you disseminated "Assange to drop 9 coup de grâce hammer on career criminal Clinton"? Well, it was pointed out to me by Jeremy Scahill. 10 A. 11 but I did send some stuff out. 12 Yes, probably. I think I mean, I don't know exactly what I said, By the way, I was blocked at that time, by Mr. Stone, 13 on Twitter. 14 Q. So you're saying he didn't read it? 15 A. He could have read it. 16 have read it. 17 Q. Usually, on Twitter -- if I may -- 18 A. Yeah, you can find it. 19 Twitter accounts. 20 Q. If -- let me -- 21 A. You can block one specific person, but you can't block all 22 50 accounts. 23 Q. 24 25 A million different ways he could But, I don't -- you know, I'm telling you -- Listen, I know people got 50 Do you -- do you -THE COURT: All right. Let me just say one thing. The person with the most difficult job in this courtroom is the 741 1 court reporter. 2 THE WITNESS: 3 THE COURT: 4 She has to type what he's asking and what you're saying. 5 THE WITNESS: 6 THE COURT: 7 10 I'm sorry. So, it would help if you didn't start to re-ask the question while he's still talking. 8 9 Yes, I know. And it would help if you waited until he finished asking before you answer, so that she can do her job. All right. 11 THE WITNESS: Okay. I'm sorry. I apologize. 12 BY MR. BUSCHEL: 13 Q. 14 that person, correct? 15 A. Right. 16 Q. You also, on July 22nd, 2016, Tweeted about WikiLeaks, 17 didn't you? 18 A. I would have to look at the Tweet. 19 Q. Just not -- 20 A. I'm going to take your word for it. 21 probably Tweeted about WikiLeaks because something probably 22 came out that day. 23 It is true that a Twitter user cannot see who has blocked MR. BUSCHEL: 24 BY MR. BUSCHEL: 25 Q. Do you have it? If it's Credico2016, I Not for the jury. Let me ask you to look at -- 742 1 2 THE COURT: So you're just showing it to refresh his recollection? 3 MR. BUSCHEL: 4 THE COURT: 5 MR. BUSCHEL: 6 THE COURT: 7 THE WITNESS: 8 THE COURT: 9 THE WITNESS: Yes, ma'am. So it's not in evidence yet? It's not. So only the witness is looking at it. July 22nd. I know Luis Miranda -- Don't read it. Just read it to yourself. Oh. 10 BY MR. BUSCHEL: 11 Q. Do you see it, Mr. Credico? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Does this fairly refresh your memory -- 14 A. Oh, yes. 15 16 I remember that. THE COURT: What was the question? was -- 17 THE WITNESS: 18 THE COURT: 19 Yes, what was the question? -- did you Tweet about WikiLeaks on July 2016? 20 MR. BUSCHEL: 21 THE COURT: 22 THE WITNESS: 23 BY MR. BUSCHEL: 24 Q. 25 The question Yes. All right. So? Yes, I remember that. And -THE COURT: Did you say anything substantive about -- 743 1 THE WITNESS: No. All I said was something about 2 Luis Miranda. I had the wrong Miranda down, by the way. 3 was corrected. It wasn't the Miranda I was thinking of. 4 Gerson Borrero of NY1 corrected me. 5 whatever I was doing there. 6 THE COURT: 7 THE WITNESS: 8 THE COURT: 9 THE WITNESS: It That It was the wrong -- You used the word "WikiLeaks" in a Tweet. Yes. All right. At the very end -- 10 THE COURT: And what's the next question? 11 THE WITNESS: 12 whatever they said about Miranda. 13 BY MR. BUSCHEL: 14 Q. 15 Mr. Assange, correct? 16 A. -- I said, Thank you, WikiLeaks for And two days later, on July 24th, 2016, you talk about Let me see it. 17 Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'm forwarding Assange there. 18 That's all. 19 Q. So you're re-Tweeting what Mr. Assange was putting out? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Okay. 22 Democratic National Convention? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Margaret Kunstler is one of WikiLeaks's lawyers? 25 A. You'll let -- she's going to have to describe her role as And that was during the time period of the Yes. 744 1 a -- what her role is with WikiLeaks. 2 has -- Julian Assange has about 1,000 lawyers. 3 Michael Ratner was one of his lawyers. 4 of his lawyers. 5 Q. Thank you. 6 A. There are a lot of lawyers. 7 know, who's a lawyer -- 8 THE COURT: 9 THE WITNESS: You know, I don't -- he You know, Alan Dershowitz was one All right? But, that -- you The question is, do you know -- 10 THE COURT: 11 THE WITNESS: I don't consider -- -- do you have personal --- her to be his lawyer. I consider 12 her to be -- to know people, be part of a team. 13 BY MR. BUSCHEL: 14 Q. That was -- 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. -- giving legal advice to WikiLeaks? 17 A. I don't know if they gave to WikiLeaks or somebody else. 18 think it was somebody else, Sarah Harrison, maybe, but not -- I 19 don't think she was giving legal advice. 20 She wrote op-ed pieces in Newsweek. Where would the legal advice be? And the legal 21 advice where? She was not 22 the representative in the U.S. against -- with the Justice 23 Department here. 24 didn't consider her to be the lawyer or even one of the 25 lawyers; just someone that was in that circle. So, I don't know -- I don't -- I really I 745 1 Q. But you knew she was communicating with people that were -- 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. -- at WikiLeaks? 4 A. Yes. 5 19th. 6 Q. And you bragged about that? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. And you bragged about that relationship with 9 Ms. Kunstler -- Yes. That's how I got Julian Assange on my show on August It was a big deal. 10 A. Did I brag about the relationship? 11 was how I was able to get -- did I brag that she's a friend of 12 mine? 13 really bragging? 14 Q. 15 proceedings, correct? 16 A. 17 that I had is right over there. 18 people that gave me advice. 19 retainer except for Marty Stolar, who's in the courtroom. 20 was it. 21 Q. 22 because you are best friends with Assange's lawyer. 23 leave it at that. 24 A. 25 Is that the exact wording? Yes. I just said that that Did I brag that she helped me get -- was that That was my way of getting him on the show. She was a lawyer for you at some point during these I don't know if she was -- she gave me advice. Lawyers And there were some other There was nobody that I had on a That You told Mr. Stone that you know things about WikiLeaks Is that exactly what I said? Let's Is that the exact words? It's not the exact wording of 746 1 Twitter. 2 Q. You went over it this morning -- 3 4 THE COURT: Now, look, if you want to confront him with something, you can put it on the screen. 5 THE WITNESS: 6 You're paraphrasing. 7 Why don't you just give it to me directly? 8 9 Right. THE COURT: You can ask him if he said that. But, if he doesn't know, then you can't -- you have to either show it 10 to him -- but, you can't testify about what he said this 11 morning. 12 BY MR. BUSCHEL: 13 Q. Was that accurate? 14 A. Could you just show me exactly? 15 you are paraphrasing it. 16 Q. Just in general, did you imply -- 17 A. No. Do you remember that? You have to show it to me because you're phrasing. 18 THE COURT: 19 THE WITNESS: 20 THE COURT: 21 22 23 Because it's not the way All right. You don't get to argue -- Oh, I'm sorry. -- with the lawyer or object to his questions. THE WITNESS: All right. Is that it, then? I would have to see it. 24 THE COURT: Did you say something to the effect of -- 25 What's your question? 747 1 BY MR. BUSCHEL: 2 Q. 3 friends with Julian Assange's lawyer, to Roger Stone? 4 A. 5 yes. 6 Q. And Julian Assange is the founder of WikiLeaks? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. He is the leader of WikiLeaks? 9 A. The leader? 10 Q. And in reality, you say that you did not have any 11 communication with Julian Assange until your radio show? 12 A. 13 radio show, had no communication and nothing until six months 14 later. 15 Q. 16 radio show, didn't you? 17 A. 18 August 25th, that I spoke to Assange? 19 Q. Well, you wanted to -- 20 A. I had him on my radio show. 21 had him on. 22 September 9th, when I told him that Assange was going -- was on 23 my show. 24 Q. 25 that you had an in with WikiLeaks and Julian Assange, didn't Did you say something to the effect of that you are best That would be some -- you know, you're in the ballpark, He is the publisher of WikiLeaks. August 25th, that day -- or, wait -- August 25th, on my But you told Roger Stone you spoke to Assange prior to the No, I didn't. Where did I say that? Prior to my That was the only time that I And I let him know that he was on my show on You wanted to believe -- you wanted Roger Stone to believe 748 1 you? 2 A. 3 Julian Assange, or he's communicated with Julian Assange. 4 so I was -- I had my own Julian Assange connection. 5 Q. You were attempting to fool him, weren't you? 6 A. Not -- was I trying to fool him? 7 one-upping him; I did have Assange coming on my show. 8 Q. 9 Dinner in April of 2018? I was one-upping him because he had a back channel to No. And I was -- I was Do you remember going to National Press Club Correspondents 10 A. Yes, I do. 11 Q. Do you remember standing outside of that theater? 12 A. Yes, I do. 13 Q. And the National Press Club Correspondents Dinner is a 14 yearly event, isn't it? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. It is a yearly event with the press and politicians in 17 Washington, D.C., isn't it? 18 A. 19 doing something for Jimmy Dore's radio show. 20 Q. And you were doing the radio show outside of -- 21 A. Everywhere there -- 22 Q. -- outside of the correspondents' dinner? 23 A. I was going everywhere there, wearing, inside of my tuxedo 24 pocket, a cell phone, and interviewing people for Jimmy Dore's 25 radio show. Yes. I got kicked out of that event. Everybody's is there. It's a huge gathering. I was 749 1 Q. And you were introducing yourself to those people as 2 Roger Stone's back channel, weren't you? 3 A. 4 I spoke to Nancy Pelosi. 5 the -- what room was it -- the Yahoo newsroom, telling them 6 just the opposite. With a wink. 7 I introduced one person there. First of all, And I spoke to a bunch of others in When I was outside trying to get Tom Steyer's 8 attention, I said I'm -- you know, he didn't know who I was. 9 So, I'm trying to get him to interview with me. And I'm the 10 guy -- because nobody could figure out why I was even there, 11 except for I was the guy that was elevated in the news because 12 of this false claim, that I was Julian Assange's connection to 13 Roger Stone. 14 to get him to say something on the show. 15 Q. And you perpetuated that false claim, didn't you? 16 A. Throughout that -- no. 17 was up there with Nancy Pelosi and Adam Schiff, explaining that 18 I wasn't. 19 wasn't, and a whole bunch of others, that I wasn't the back 20 channel. 21 So, that's how I introduced myself to Tom Steyer, I told a whole bunch of people. I And the -- John Kasich was there, telling him that I What you got was just a little excerpt that -- if you 22 watch the entire Jimmy Dore show, you will see that I told 23 everybody that I wasn't the back channel. 24 did. 25 back channel. But, a few people, I But, it was with a wink and a nod, I am Roger Stone's You know, one of those things. 750 1 Q. Did you wink? 2 A. I didn't probably wink, but you don't have to wink. 3 can tell them Roger Stone -- or, do a -- you know, you got to 4 see it. 5 entire video of it, and you will see the entire video. 6 lot of it he put away and didn't put on the channel. 7 Q. 8 Roger Stone saying, Julian Assange has kryptonite on Hillary. 9 A. Right. 10 Q. Do you recall that? 11 A. Yes, I do. 12 Q. And Trump is the Silky Sullivan of this race? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. The purpose -- you realize that when you did that -- or, 15 your purpose was to convince Roger Stone that Julian Assange 16 has kryptonite, has information on Hillary? 17 A. 18 was going to come out with something. 19 matter-of-fact conversation -- or, text message. 20 sure he responded to that, that -- when you're watching this, 21 I'm -- I am a spectator -- which I thought Mr. Stone was -- a 22 spectator in all of this. 23 spectator, watching Assange. 24 Q. A spectator -- 25 A. A spectator, watching everything that's going on around me. He's got the whole video. You Maybe he'll give you the And a On August 27th, 2016, you sent a text message to I believe that he did. I'm going by public statements by Julian Assange that he That was just a I'm not even I'm not a participant; I'm a 751 1 Q. A spectator that -- in 2016, at some point, you lived with 2 Margaret Kunstler, didn't you? 3 A. Did I live with her? 4 Q. Is that where she lives? 5 A. No. 6 7 THE COURT: I was living with -- on 36th Street. All right. You don't need to say where someone lives. 8 MR. BUSCHEL: No, not at all. 9 THE WITNESS: No. 10 THE COURT: 11 THE WITNESS: 12 THE COURT: 13 THE WITNESS: 14 THE COURT: 15 No. I was living -- Just stop. No. I -- I'm sorry. -- we're not telling where witnesses live -THE WITNESS: 17 THE COURT: Right. -- in this case. That is personal information. 19 MR. BUSCHEL: 20 THE COURT: 21 No. Mr. Credico -- 16 18 No. I was -- I apologize, Judge. That's fine. Just, you don't need to tell her address or yours. 22 THE WITNESS: 23 about that. 24 BY MR. BUSCHEL: 25 Q. I'm not even going to say anything Simply just answer this question: Did you live in her 752 1 apartment in New York City at some point in 2016? 2 A. 3 spending that time on the West Coast, working on a television 4 show for Nickelodeon. 5 Irwin Corey, who was dying of cancer -- 6 Q. Mr. Credico -- 7 A. -- for most of that year. 8 Q. Mr. Credico, do -- 9 A. Yes? 10 Q. -- you remember my question I just asked you? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. You've also described that at a time, that you had lunch 13 with Julian Assange. 14 A. Yes, I have. 15 Q. And you've -- 16 A. 2017. 17 Q. Okay. 18 A. I had lunch with Julian Assange in 2017. 19 from Harrods, when I was there covering the legal proceedings. 20 Q. Mr. Credico, do you remember my question? 21 A. Where did I brag about having lunch with Julian Assange? 22 Just show me the -- please, show me the -- 23 Q. Did you tell Roger Stone -- 24 A. Can you show me where I said that? 25 Did I stay there for a little bit? Yes. I was also And I was also watching Professor So I was moving around a lot. Yes. And you've bragged about that? THE COURT: All right. I brought food in He now has asked you another 753 1 question. 2 BY MR. BUSCHEL: 3 Q. Did you tell Roger Stone you had lunch with Julian Assange? 4 A. I could have. 5 Q. And when you say you had lunch with Julian Assange -- 6 A. 2017, you're talking about? 7 Q. Whenever it was. 8 A. Well, you got to show me the date, please. 9 Did you tell Roger -- THE COURT: Finish your question. You said when you 10 had it, you -- 11 BY MR. BUSCHEL: 12 Q. 13 he? 14 A. 15 from Harrods. 16 Q. Was it just you and he? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. There was no one else in the room? 19 A. Me and Assange in the embassy in London, yes. 20 Q. And you probably told Roger Stone that you had done that? 21 A. Could have. 22 Q. And your goal was never, it is your testimony -- 23 A. This was 2017. 24 Q. I understand. 25 never meant to imply to Roger Stone you had some type of When you had lunch with Julian Assange, was it just you and I had lunch inside of the embassy, when I took food over That was the lunch that I had in 2017. You've got to show me the text message. This is a year after the election. And your testimony to this Court is, you 754 1 special relationship with Julian Assange? 2 A. You're talking about a year after the election, not -- 3 Q. Ever, sir? 4 A. We're talking about the year of the election. 5 special relationship. 6 irrelevant to bring that up. 7 Q. Do you recall when Mr. Stone testified and -- 8 A. Yes, I recall when he voluntarily testified and read a 9 47-page statement. 10 Q. Okay. 11 A. Yes. 12 13 I did a year later. I had no So, it was And that was in 2017, correct? MR. BUSCHEL: Government's Exhibit 48, please, on page 2. 14 Whoa, right there. 15 Thank you. 16 Yes. "It's part of the agenda." 17 BY MR. BUSCHEL: 18 Q. Do you remember this text -- 19 A. Yes, I do. 20 Q. -- Mr. Credico? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Yes, you did. 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. And where it says "It's part of the agenda," you were 25 telling Roger Stone, in September 2016, that it was part of Didn't I see this yesterday? Yes. 755 1 your agenda to see Julian Assange, wasn't it? 2 A. 3 head this thing about Gary Johnson reciprocation. 4 to get Assange on, and he wanted me to show them the Dr. Paul 5 thing. 6 that as a reciprocation for the Gary Johnson. 7 Q. 8 to imply to Mr. Stone that you had a special relationship or 9 you are planning to meet with Mr. Credico in London in the It was part of my agenda to -- he was still holding over my So, I said, "It's part of my agenda." He wanted me Yes, I would do And is your testimony to this Court that you did not mean 10 Ecuadorian -- 11 A. With Mr. Assange, yes. 12 Q. -- embassy? 13 Mr. Assange. 14 A. 15 give the letter and, hopefully, see him and get him on my 16 radio -- or, start a radio show. 17 Barry Crimmins, yes. 18 Yes. Yes. Well, yes. MR. BUSCHEL: 19 A. 20 agenda, was to get him. 21 I was going. When I was going to see Government's 51. You see this stuff about Dr. Paul? MR. BUSCHEL: And I was planning to That was part of the But, that never happened. Right there, please. 22 BY MR. BUSCHEL: 23 Q. 24 2016, you wrote to Roger Stone that, "That batch probably 25 coming out in the next drop. And during that time period, you -- during September 19th, I can't ask them for favors every 756 1 other day." 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. You are telling Roger Stone that there are more 4 publications of WikiLeaks coming? 5 A. I said, "That batch is probably coming out." 6 I said I was a spectator at that particular point. 7 I'm speculating that they are coming out. He wanted this stuff 8 on Dr. Paul. 9 wanted me to do something in reciprocation. He was upset that I had not -- not upset, but he This is what it 10 was at that point. 11 Q. 12 said. 13 A. Yes, it does. 14 Q. You are implying -- by saying, "I can't ask them for favors 15 every other day," you are implying that you had the ability to 16 ask for favors from Julian Assange, aren't you? 17 A. 18 that's how you interpret it, that's fine. 19 interpret it. 20 every day, and I didn't get him back on for six months. 21 were the favors I was trying to get for myself. 22 Q. 23 headaches" -- 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. I don't know what Rggi -- "right now. Mr. Credico, all I asked you is if that's what the e-mail "I can't ask," yes. I could not ask him. Whatever you want to say, sir. If I know how I I was asking them to get Assange back on my show "I asked one of his lawyers. They have major legal Relax." Those 757 1 A. I just wanted to rebuff him. 2 stuff here. 3 and see for yourself? 4 Q. 5 right? 6 A. Yeah. 7 Q. Mr. Stone lives in Florida, right? 8 A. Does he live in Florida? 9 New York, you know, that time, yes. I'm trying to neutralize it. Can you read that When he's "pounding" you, sir, he sent you an e-mail, Well -- 10 Q. He sent you an e-mail? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. "One of his lawyers." 13 He was pounding me with this You know that? He lives in Florida. He lives in You're referring to Margaret Kunstler, aren't you? 14 A. Probably. This is the one that I forwarded, right, to 15 Margaret Kunstler. 16 already knew in London, but I didn't. 17 satisfy him and get him off my back. 18 Q. 19 referring to about Libya, you really -- you didn't really 20 expect Ms. Kunstler to receive that e-mail, did you? 21 A. To receive it? 22 Q. Which you knew she didn't read? 23 A. Probably not. 24 Q. And you told -- 25 A. Could have. I could have forwarded that to the person I I gave it to her just to You did not -- speaking of that e-mail that you're I just sent it to her AOL address. 758 1 Q. -- the government that when they asked you for those 2 emails? 3 A. 4 three or four accounts. 5 So, that was my way of, Here, I gave it, and get off my back 6 with this Libya stuff and Dr. Paul. 7 Q. 8 Mr. Credico? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. I'll ask you to read this portion here (indicating). I do not remember if I -- AOL is not her main -- she has That would not be her main account. Do you see the -- see the document I put in front of you, 11 Does this refresh your recollection about your motive 12 or what you did? 13 Ms. Kunstler -- 14 You sent it to an e-mail address that THE COURT: I believe he testified to that, that he 15 knew it wasn't her main account, and it was a way to tell -- 16 you can take it off the screen for a second -- to tell 17 Mr. Stone he had and get him off his back. 18 your question "yes." 19 MR. BUSCHEL: 20 BY MR. BUSCHEL: 21 Q. THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: Give me a thumbs up when it comes on. 24 25 Government 58, please. Do you see yourself in government -- I'm sorry. 22 23 THE JURORS: A. So, he answered Yes, I've seen it. (Thumbs up.) Yes. 759 1 BY MR. BUSCHEL: 2 Q. 3 correct? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Okay. 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. And -- 8 A. Well, I texted it to a lot of people. 9 Q. And you were telling a lot of people then, including That is you in front of the Ecuadorian embassy in London, Looks like me, yes. And you texted this to Roger Stone, correct? But, him, too. 10 Roger Stone, that you were outside the building where 11 Julian Assange was living at the time, right? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. And it is still your testimony to this Court that you did 14 not mean to imply to Roger Stone that you had a special 15 relationship with Julian Assange, you were still a spectator? 16 A. 17 after I went in, and my -- my general manager from WBAI was 18 hoping I would get that letter over to him and talk to him; I 19 never got in. 20 days. 21 At that point I was -- the whole time -- at that point, I was there to see Barry Crimmins for three I went out there, put that in, took the picture in 22 front of the MI6, MI5, or metropolitan police guy outside, and 23 I put it on Facebook. 24 people, including Mr. Stone. 25 Q. And then the next day I sent it to other And, so -- So, yes, you meant to imply to Mr. Stone you had a special 760 1 relationship with Julian Assange? 2 A. 3 that day. 4 out there because I was never able to satisfy the Libya deal. 5 So, this was the whole deal with Dr. Paul, Hillary Clinton 6 sabotaging the Libya peace talks. 7 So, I sent that. 8 Q. So you meant to fool Roger Stone? 9 A. Look, I was still indebted to him for the Gary Johnson get. On -- I -- a special relationship? A special -- I got in But, one of the reasons why is, I was -- I put that I was never able to do that. 10 That was -- 11 Q. So as -- 12 A. Because he brings it up several times, previously. 13 Q. And as a favor, you took a picture of yourself outside the 14 embassy to imply to Roger Stone -- 15 A. 16 I was there. 17 28th to 29th, I already -- the day I took the picture, I put it 18 on Facebook. 19 could show you that I put that out there. 20 sent it to Roger Stone. 21 Not Roger Stone. To a lot of people. I put it on Facebook a day before. On September And I don't know where that exhibit is. MR. BUSCHEL: But, I The following day, I The next page, please. 22 A. 23 But, I broadcast that around the world. 24 that -- whatever. 25 I took that picture. And if he has Facebook, he could have seen it as well. MR. BUSCHEL: Yes, I was implying Right there, please. 6 -- or 8-11 -- 761 1 8-11. 2 There you go. 3 BY MR. BUSCHEL: 4 Q. And on the same day -- 5 A. Yeah. 6 Q. -- after you take your -- you take your picture outside the 7 embassy, you write to Roger Stone, "Big news Wednesday. 8 pretend you don't know me." 9 A. Right. 10 Q. It is still your testimony to this Court that you did not 11 mean to imply that you had a special relationship with 12 Julian Assange? 13 A. 14 back channel to Julian Assange. 15 THE COURT: 16 THE WITNESS: 17 THE COURT: Now My intent -- I still will imply to this Court I was not a Never was. That wasn't his question. What was the question? I think you're trying to rope his whole 18 testimony into more -- it's the foundation that keeps confusing 19 him. 20 When you said this to Roger Stone, were you trying to 21 imply that you had a relationship and information from 22 Mr. Assange? Is that what you were trying -- 23 THE WITNESS: 24 THE COURT: 25 THE WITNESS: Probably. -- to convey to Mr. Stone with this text? Probably. At that point, I may have 762 1 known, but it was based on information that was already out 2 there, that something was coming out. 3 4 THE COURT: But, you wanted him to think that you got it from Mr. Assange, is -- 5 THE WITNESS: You know what, do I know what I was 6 thinking three years ago? Possibly I did. Maybe I did. Good 7 chance that I did, that I had information, based on public 8 information, that it was out there. 9 sending that, that something is coming out this week. It could have been anybody I mean, 10 I'd been seeing it. 11 September saying that something was coming out. 12 lot of information that Assange was coming out with something. 13 Sarah Harrison had come out at the end of There was a So, at this point, to satisfy Mr. Stone, I sent him 14 that. 15 BY MR. BUSCHEL: 16 Q. 17 intermediary, or a go-between between -- 18 A. Whoa. 19 Q. -- WikiLeaks, you played him, didn't you? So when Roger Stone got the impression that you were an 20 MR. ZELINSKY: 21 THE COURT: 22 THE WITNESS: 23 THE COURT: Objection. Sustained. I never -- This question has been -- you can ask him 24 what was in his head; you can't ask him what was in Mr. Stone's 25 head. 763 1 MR. BUSCHEL: Yes, Judge. 2 BY MR. BUSCHEL: 3 Q. That was in your head? 4 A. Was that in my head? 5 Q. You thought that you played Roger Stone? 6 A. That I played Roger Stone? 7 back, my friend. 8 Q. 9 didn't you? I wanted Roger Stone off of my You gave an interview with a woman named Abby Martin, 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. She is a reporter for? 12 A. She's a reporter for -- she was with Telesur and Empire 13 Files, yes. 14 Q. And you gave her an extended interview -- 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. -- about WikiLeaks and Roger Stone -- 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. -- and Randy Credico -- 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. -- about yourself -- 21 A. Yes, I did. 22 Q. -- didn't you? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. And the year that you did that? 25 A. It was last year, 2018. It was sometime in November or -- 764 1 yeah, it was around Thanksgiving time. 2 Q. So around this time last year? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. And you had already spoken to the Special Counsel's Office? 5 A. This is -- I spoke to them December 6th. 6 Q. So, not yet? 7 A. I'd spoken to them once, and I came back later. 8 Q. You told her that you played Roger Stone. 9 Roger Stone -- You were playing 10 A. Whatever I said -- do you want to play the video? 11 if you just show me the video here, whatever I was saying to 12 her that had come out. 13 were released. 14 had not done a full interview. 15 Roger Stone. 16 There were a lot of text messages that And, so, she wanted to get the full story. I And I gave her history of Maybe we can play the whole -- if you want to play 17 the whole video? 18 Q. 19 I can -- No. Let me ask you another question. You have -- it is clear that you have testified, 20 based on your first questions in direct examination, that you 21 were not the back channel. We understand that. 22 My next question is this -- 23 MR. ZELINSKY: 24 THE COURT: 25 foundation. Objection. All right. Okay. He can lay the He's already elicited -- it's your testimony that 765 1 you were not a back channel to Julian Assange, correct? 2 THE WITNESS: 3 THE COURT: Exactly. Okay. Next question. 4 BY MR. BUSCHEL: 5 Q. 6 with Congressman Adam Schiff, didn't you? 7 A. Did I talk to him about it? 8 Q. Yes. 9 A. Yes. You did, however, speak to Julian Assange about talking Yes. Somebody within his -- within -- he was 10 already -- wait a second. 11 was cut off in March of 2018. 12 more communication. 13 He was cut off at that point. He He was -- he could not have any So, I did speak to somebody else, but not with 14 Mr. Assange anymore by text message. It was only with somebody 15 else. 16 sometime in late March. 17 White House Correspondents Dinner. 18 sometimes in June, yes. 19 Q. 20 somebody who works for Julian Assange? 21 A. 22 because he had invited me at the event that we did at the White 23 House Correspondents Dinner, where I was invited by Yahoo News. 24 And he came in there, and he said he would like to talk to me. 25 You know, and I grew up, like, five miles from where he He was totally cut off by the Ecuadorian government So, we're talking about after the I met Schiff in April. So, you didn't speak to him directly. So, You spoke to I let them know that I was going to meet with Mr. Schiff, 766 1 represents Pasadena. 2 Sure, we'll talk about it. 3 finally did speak. 4 I'm from Pomona, California. So, I said, He wanted to talk to me, and we But, I did not speak to Julian Assange about it. I 5 did speak to somebody else about that I am going to talk to 6 Adam Schiff. 7 Q. 8 to, who you claim represented Julian Assange, told you that he 9 was willing to speak to Adam Schiff? So did -- let's do it this way: 10 THE COURT: 11 THE WITNESS: The person that you spoke Can we use some time frames here? Yeah. Do you have the dates of that? 12 BY MR. BUSCHEL: 13 Q. That was in 2019. 14 A. 2019? 15 Q. Yes. 16 A. Adam Schiff was 2018. 17 Q. Okay. 18 A. So we're in 2019 now. 19 Q. So this is in 2018, that you're delivering messages from 20 Julian Assange -- 21 A. 22 was cut off in March of 2018 from all communications. 23 We're in 2019. Did you speak to anyone -- You're a year off. Not delivering messages from Julian Assange. He said he And then sometime after I spoke to Adam Schiff at the 24 White House Correspondents Dinner in April, he invited me to 25 have a conversation with him. And, so, we set it up. And I 767 1 came down to D.C. two months letter and met, not with him, but 2 his staff. 3 in there, and Mr. Assange would be happy to be interviewed. 4 Because nobody had interviewed him yet. And had the okay to say, Well, Schiff, you can go 5 Q. And so you told Adam Schiff that, Assange wanted to meet 6 with you? 7 A. 8 made the request. 9 him. Didn't say "wanted to." But, he would meet with him if he If he made the request, he would talk with 10 Q. And Mr. Schiff replied to you? 11 A. He wasn't there, Mr. Schiff. 12 on the House floor, and everybody in his office was there 13 taking notes. 14 then he conveyed a message back to Ari Melber when I finally 15 brought that up a month later. 16 Q. Right. 17 A. Several. 18 Q. And during one of those interviews, you told him that 19 Julian Assange was willing to meet with Congressman Schiff? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. And that you told Congressman Schiff that? 22 A. I told Congressman Schiff's office -- 23 Q. You didn't -- 24 A. In the office -- he wasn't there. 25 went in there and there were, like, 30 people. Mr. Schiff, he ended up being And that was the message that I conveyed. And So you gave an interview to Ari Melber? I told the office. I His counsel 768 1 were there. I was supposed to see Schiff. 2 it. 3 meet with Adam Schiff. He couldn't make So, that was the message, that Mr. Assange, I said, would 4 Now, I did Mr. Melber's show, I think, a week later 5 or ten days later, and he thought it was big news when I told 6 him that. 7 Q. 8 between -- 9 A. I pretty much kept it to myself. You told him that you were kind of an intermediary I did not say I was a intermediary. I said that someone in 10 his office said it was okay to -- gave me the okay to tell 11 Schiff -- I'm going to meet with Schiff. 12 guy. 13 ahead. 14 They knew it, this Should I say that Assange -- and they said, Yeah, go MR. BUSCHEL: Judge, I do have that video clip, if I 15 may offer it as impeachment. 16 interview with Mr. Melber. 17 THE COURT: 18 MR. ZELINSKY: 19 THE COURT: 20 (Bench discussion:) 21 THE COURT: It's 20, 30 seconds, the All right. I'm not sure -- Your Honor -- Approach the bench. You're certainly allowed to ask him 22 questions about whether at any point in time he was -- conveyed 23 a message back and forth to people who were connected to 24 Assange and conveyed them to people in the United States. 25 your predicate for the question was, You told this jury that But, 769 1 2 you weren't the back channel. Period. And what he told the jury, over and over again, and 3 what every single e-mail and text was about was, Mr. Stone, 4 when you said I was your intermediary in July and August, that 5 was not true, because I had never met him to that point. 6 So try -- so juxtaposing he's doing something a year 7 later with that to suggest that he lied to this jury about 8 being an intermediary is, I think, what Mr. Zelinsky is 9 continuing to object to. 10 So, I don't have any problem with your asking him 11 about this. 12 just asked him, which is, did he serve as some kind of a 13 go-between. 14 with the transcript because I'm not sure he's denied it. 15 I think he has admitted, essentially, what you And, so, I don't know if you need to impeach him But, if you keep setting it up with this, You've told 16 everybody you weren't the back channel, without -- it's an 17 overstatement; he's never said, I never sent any messages to 18 Assange about anything. 19 Roger Stone said he had on TV. 20 told the House that he had. 21 wasn't, not that he never spoke to him. 22 He said, I wasn't the one that And -- or that he said that he And that's the one he's saying he So, if you think it's relevant to the credibility of 23 that, that on other occasions he did convey messages, I'm not 24 going to stop you from asking about it. 25 ask foundational questions that give a false impression of an But, it's not fair to 770 1 inconsistency that isn't an inconsistency. 2 3 MR. BUSCHEL: This clip of Ari Melber is about delivering a message from Julian Assange to Congressman Schiff. 4 THE COURT: Okay. 5 MR. BUSCHEL: He's saying, I sent somebody in 6 Assange's office to somebody in Schiff's office. 7 But, to Ari Melber he says, I spoke to 8 Congressman Schiff, and I told him right away, I said, 9 Julian Assange is willing to meet with him. 10 I think that's... 11 MR. ZELINSKY: 12 First of all, I'll adopt what the Court has just been 13 saying; it's better put than I would have on what our objection 14 is. 15 Your Honor, just very briefly. The first thing I want to raise is, the government 16 does have a concern that the cross-examination has potential to 17 mislead the jury because its characterizations of the witness's 18 testimony are inaccurate. 19 characterization here by -- on cross-examination about a 20 special relationship, about never claiming he had a special 21 relationship to anyone. 22 There's been a lot of That was not at all the witness's testimony on 23 direct. It's now run on. 24 accident. 25 cross-examination. It was not a mere slip or an It's become a central focus of the 771 1 The government is very concerned that that 2 mischaracterization of the testimony has the potential to 3 mislead the jury. 4 As to this most recent thing, Mr. Credico has 5 acknowledged that he took a message from WikiLeaks to 6 Adam Schiff, years later, that he passed it along. 7 It's not clear why playing a statement of what 8 Mr. Credico has already said and already agreed to would in any 9 way help the jury, besides just playing a video of Mr. Credico. 10 It's not a prior inconsistency. 11 what Mr. Credico said he's done. 12 THE COURT: It's fairly consistent with Well, I think that you can ask him, Did 13 you represent publicly, at this time period, that you had 14 conveyed a message from Assange to Schiff? 15 then he did represent publicly that he did. 16 And if he says no, But, I do think you have tried to summarize his 17 entire testimony with overgeneralizations that aren't fair -- 18 aren't quite fair. 19 And you've also kind of been commenting at the end of 20 his testimony in a way that I stopped Mr. Zelinsky from doing. 21 If you get what you think is or is not the correct answer -- 22 23 24 25 MR. BUSCHEL: I'm seriously asking what I'm doing. Am I saying thank you or -THE COURT: or you'll correct him. No. Sometimes it will be "yes" or "no" You know, This is what your testimony 772 1 2 was. So, just want you to be careful about that. But, I think the point is, if you're going to add an 3 introductory clause or lay a foundational predicate for your 4 next question, that you need to be, essentially, quoting his 5 testimony exactly. 6 it in a way that isn't fair. 7 And then -- but, not generally paraphrasing I think it's certainly fair to cross-examine him 8 about the fact that in these texts he tried to lead Roger Stone 9 to believe that he was getting through to Assange. 10 11 admitted that on direct. I think he I think he admitted that on cross. But, if you paraphrase it differently or you try to 12 say you were, you know, an ongoing back channel, you denied 13 that, that's not quite fair. 14 this jury and to -- over and over again, and what all the 15 emails were about, was saying to Mr. Stone, Why did you name me 16 as the one you were referring to when you were on TV, before I 17 ever talked to Assange? 18 documents reflect. What he -- what he has said to That's not fair. That's not what my 19 It is true that they are after he tried to lead Stone 20 to believe that he could get a message to him, and that he had. 21 And that's all grist for cross, how these two communicate with 22 each other, which, I think, you've already covered. 23 But, I think if you want to talk about this, you 24 can't juxtapose it with something that is not inconsistent. 25 That's my concern. And I don't know that this tape is 773 1 inconsistent with his testimony. 2 do it is try to pin down what his in-court testimony is, the 3 yes-or-no question. 4 But, I think the best way to If he says, No, I never said on TV that I had 5 conveyed a message to Schiff from Assange, then you can show 6 him that. 7 given the time period. 8 MR. BUSCHEL: 9 THE COURT: But, again, I'm not sure what the relevance is, I'll probably move on. All right. 10 MR. BUSCHEL: 11 (Open court:) 12 THE COURT: Thank you. I do apologize for when the jury has to 13 sit and listen to the husher. 14 you leave the room and come back. 15 legal issues at the bench. 16 doing anything wrong by either objecting or asking the 17 questions. 18 they're not proper. 19 It's more convenient than having Sometimes we need to discuss It isn't anyone's fault. No one is We need to talk through whether they're proper or So, to the extent you have to sit there and listen to 20 it, if you hold that against anyone, hold it against me, and 21 neither party. 22 say to the jury, Well, you can pretend you're listening to the 23 sound of the ocean. 24 25 I once heard a judge, when I was trying a case, I don't think it sounds like the ocean. annoying. I know it's But, it's not because anyone is not doing what 774 1 they're supposed to do. 2 All right. Mr. Buschel, you can proceed. 3 MR. BUSCHEL: Thank you, Judge. 4 BY MR. BUSCHEL: 5 Q. 6 your name, don't use it as a connection. 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. That you did not want him to mention your name publicly, 9 correct? Now, when Roger Stone has -- you told Roger Stone to forget 10 A. 11 he had been referred to. 12 this, some kind of, you know, retroactively pushing me in as 13 the back channel that he had been touting for the previous two 14 months. 15 Q. 16 not want to be associated with the Donald Trump campaign? 17 A. Absolutely. 18 Q. This is because you are friends with democrats, correct? 19 A. Am I friends with democrats? 20 of left-wingers. 21 not like kids in cages. 22 Q. Mr. Credico -- 23 A. I -- I -- 24 Q. Mr. Credico -- 25 I did not want him to confuse me as the back channel that I did not want to be pulled into And you did not -- and one of the other reasons is, you did Would you? Mostly left-wingers. But as far as Trump goes, no. THE COURT: Because I do I don't like -- All right. A lot That was a yes-or-no 775 1 question. 2 3 THE WITNESS: Well, you want to know about Trump, this is the reason why. 4 THE COURT: 5 question. 6 BY MR. BUSCHEL: 7 Q. 8 time? 9 A. He's answered the question. Next You're friends with Hillary supporters, correct, at the Was I friends with Hillary supporters? No. I was against 10 Hillary. I was a Bernie Carrot -- Bernie Carrot -- 11 Bernie Sanders supporter. 12 the nominee. 13 Q. 14 Donald Trump's campaign, correct? 15 A. 16 being someone that at the same time was a spectator, I didn't 17 want him to put it out there that I was helping out -- first of 18 all, I didn't even think -- I wasn't even sure he was working 19 for the Trump campaign because he got bounced in August of 20 2015. 21 spectators. 22 just sent there. 23 Q. You knew that he did, in 2015 -- 24 A. I know that he worked for him, and Trump came out and said 25 whatever and dumped him, yes. I was not happy with Hillary being I wanted Bernie Sanders. But you were helping Roger Stone, who was helping That's what people might have thought, that I was -- by I wasn't sure. You know what I mean? We were I didn't know he was taking this stuff, whatever I It was already out there. 776 1 Q. And you said on direct examination, and moments ago, that 2 you did not want to be perceived as helping Donald Trump's 3 campaign -- 4 A. 5 Okay. 6 all. 7 Q. 8 that supported -- 9 A. Hillary Clinton -- 10 Q. -- Bernie Sanders? 11 A. -- no. That's not -- Bernie Sanders. 12 people, they all thought that I was -- in 2017, they all 13 thought that I helped out Donald Trump, which is, like, the 14 most ridiculous thing ever. 15 Q. 16 you know, just, Don't know me, and he replied, Say I'm -- you 17 died five years ago, that was the communication? 18 A. 19 in 2016. It was not good for a guy who had worked -- well, yes. Yes, I did not want to be connected to Donald Trump at You did not want to lose your friendships with the people Hillary Clinton So when you asked Roger Stone to -- you know, when he said, Wait a second. I don't know what the motivation was there If you're going 2016 to 2017 -- 20 THE COURT: 21 What's your objection? 22 MR. ZELINSKY: 23 No. Okay. All right. There was no question, Your Honor. was just a statement. 24 THE COURT: All right. All right. 25 Why don't you ask your next question. If you're It 777 1 directing him to a specific text, then if you could specify the 2 time period so we all know what we're talking about. 3 MR. BUSCHEL: The last one. 4 Right there. If you blow that up. 5 BY MR. BUSCHEL: 6 Q. 7 ago" -- 8 A. Right. 9 Q. -- that's communicating to you. Right there, where Roger Stone said, "You died five years 10 "Great," right? 11 A. 12 Yeah, "Great." 13 Q. 14 will die this week." 15 A. Let's see. Your response to it is, Let me see the time. I died five years ago. Yeah, "Great." And then, on top of that, you write, "Hillary's campaign Right. Just talk. 16 THE COURT: All right. 17 MR. BUSCHEL: Yes. 18 THE WITNESS: Yes. 19 THE COURT: 20 THE WITNESS: 21 THE COURT: Is that a question? You wrote that? Yes? Yes. Okay. Your next question. 22 BY MR. BUSCHEL: 23 Q. Mr. Credico -- 24 A. Yes, sir. 25 Q. -- you had many lawyers giving you advice on whether to 778 1 testify in front of the House Committee on Intelligence -- 2 A. I had many people, including lawyers. 3 Q. And this morning you said that there were 1,000 reasons why 4 you invoked the Fifth Amendment, correct? 5 A. 6 you know. 7 Q. 8 his advice, right? 9 A. Yes, I did. 10 Q. And one of your options was that -- Fifth Amendment was an 11 option to you, correct? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. It is an option that you elected, correct? 14 A. It's the option, at the end of the day, I selected. 15 didn't know what I was going to do until that last day. 16 Q. Okay. 17 A. Really drove my lawyer crazy. 18 Q. And you consulted with your lawyer, who you just pointed 19 at, correct? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. And together you decided to do that? 22 A. To get -- at the end of the day I decided, not my lawyer. 23 I decided what to do. 24 Q. Very good. 25 A. Whatever reasoning that I had. At the end of the day, there were a lot of reasons why -- And you even consulted -- you consulted Roger Stone to get But, I 779 1 MR. ZELINSKY: 2 THE COURT: 3 MR. ZELINSKY: 4 THE COURT: 5 (Bench discussion:) 6 MR. ZELINSKY: 7 THE COURT: 8 Number one, I was shocked you went into this on 9 direct, but you did. Objection. Well -If I could approach? Yes. Can you approach the bench. Your Honor, it's -- Just a second. I don't think -- I don't have any reason 10 to believe, no one has suggested to me that he waives his 11 privilege as to the substance of what his lawyer told him to 12 do. 13 he could turn to for advice. 14 I think you can ask, as you did, that he had people that He did, in fact, do that. But, I don't think, if this was where you were going 15 with your decision to ask him, Was that consistent with your 16 lawyer's advice -- 17 MR. BUSCHEL: 18 THE COURT: 19 MR. BUSCHEL: 20 I wouldn't say that. Well -I mean, I'll say, You authorized your lawyer to write that letter. That's not privilege. 21 THE COURT: 22 questions that should be tight. 23 24 25 That's fine. MR. ZELINSKY: But, I just think these are One additional matter while we're at the bench, Your Honor. After that last colloquy, probably as a slip of the 780 1 tongue, when Mr. Credico said that he had consulted with his 2 lawyer, Mr. Buschel said, "very good" in response. 3 probably accidental, but I think that's an indication of what 4 the Court was talking about. 5 6 THE COURT: Right. MR. ZELINSKY: 8 THE COURT: 9 MR. ZELINSKY: -- I just wanted to bring it to Mr. Buschel's -MR. BUSCHEL: 12 THE COURT: 13 MR. BUSCHEL: 15 As a problem child myself -- Okay. 11 14 Well, we have a number of people in this courtroom who have that habit. 7 10 That's the answer. In our defense, the witness -- Is difficult. I'm doing the best I can. And my "very good" is not approval of It's, Very good, you answered the question. THE COURT: I understand. I understand that. But 16 sometimes it seems that the lawyer knows what the facts are, 17 and that's why we should all avoid it. 18 MR. BUSCHEL: 19 THE COURT: I was conscious of it after I did it. Believe me, I think everybody is doing 20 the best under difficult circumstances. I don't usually insert 21 myself in examinations as often as I have. 22 because I'm trying to stop you from doing what you're doing. 23 I'm trying to facilitate what you're doing, and focusing in 24 ways that maybe are less threatening to him so that he can 25 actually answer the question. And it isn't 781 1 2 But, I think, hopefully, we're getting near the end of this. 3 4 I don't know. Okay. All right. Well -- MR. ZELINSKY: We anticipate redirect to be fairly short. 5 THE COURT: Good. 6 MR. BUSCHEL: 7 THE COURT: Very good. So -- Still be long. -- why don't we -- I would like to try to 8 finish it before lunch, if that's possible. 9 there, we don't get there. 10 MR. BUSCHEL: 11 THE COURT: If we didn't get Is lunch at 12:30? No, lunch is usually at 1:00. So, why 12 don't you just keep going. 13 careful about asking a question that seems to call for what his 14 lawyer told him, as opposed to asking yes-and-no questions. 15 16 MR. BUSCHEL: But, I think you just need to be Would you like me to tell him that? Would you like me to tell him not to do that? 17 THE COURT: Well, you can certainly start with, 18 Without telling me what your lawyer told you or what the two of 19 you discussed, did you agree that this letter should be sent? 20 And then he will understood. 21 Okay. 22 MR. BUSCHEL: 23 (Open court:) 24 BY MR. BUSCHEL: 25 Q. Thank you. Very good. Thank you. So, without saying, Mr. Credico, what your lawyer said to 782 1 you, you did authorize your lawyer to write a letter to the 2 House Intelligence Committee, invoking your Fifth Amendment 3 right? 4 A. Yes, I did. 5 Q. In fact, you publicly have stated one of the reasons why 6 you asserted your Fifth Amendment is that you thought the House 7 investigation was a witch hunt? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. And in addition to consulting with lawyers and many people, 10 you've consulted with Betsy Woodruff, a journalist. 11 A. Did I consult with her? 12 Q. You talked to her about it? 13 A. I talked to her about it, yes. 14 about it. 15 Q. 16 so many versions of the events, that it was in your best 17 interest to take the Fifth Amendment? 18 A. 19 radio show, that -- you know, best that you take; that was one 20 person. I talked to a lot of people I didn't ask for her advice. And, in fact, you publicly have stated that you have said Well, somebody said that when I was on The Intercepted 21 People had -- I was encouraged by other people to 22 take -- to go out and say it, otherwise I was going to have 23 this being held over my head for a long time, even if, in fact, 24 you know, that was the deal. 25 This is suspicious that Credico took the Fifth. David Corn had put something out. 783 1 I didn't want that out there. So, I knew there was 2 going to be some kind of repercussions by taking the Fifth 3 Amendment. 4 speculate, they extrapolate -- Even though you have the right to do it, people do 5 MR. ZELINSKY: 6 THE WITNESS: Yes. 7 MR. BUSCHEL: Objection. 8 THE COURT: 9 Objection. All right. Nonresponsive. Go ahead and ask your next question. 10 BY MR. BUSCHEL: 11 Q. 12 text communications with Roger Stone to bring up Frankie Five 13 Angels was you? 14 A. 15 up. 16 seen the movie coming back from London. 17 Q. 18 mid-November of 2017? 19 A. Well, I was coming back somewhere around that time. 20 Q. You remember that? 21 A. I remember being in London, yes. 22 Q. And you remember writing that to Roger Stone? 23 A. I remember watching The Godfather II on the plane. 24 Q. And that's an ongoing back and forth with you and 25 Roger Stone, talking about The Godfather II, correct? Mr. Credico, isn't it true that the first person in your I brought up that coming back from -- I know I brought it I don't know when that came up chronologically, but I had And you were in London on November -- November -- 784 1 A. Well, I think -- well, ongoing? I mean, I don't know what 2 the genesis of it is here, in the exchanges. 3 over the years, every Italian that I know knows every scene 4 from Godfather I and II. 5 Q. 6 with Roger Stone, you refer to Hillary Clinton as Luca Brasi. 7 A. I do. 8 Q. And Luca Brasi was a hit man in The Godfather, correct? 9 A. I'd have to see the -- do you have the document here, where But, I'm sure I'm one of them and he's one of them. And, in fact, during this time period of text messaging 10 I say that? 11 Q. Do you remember that? 12 A. If you could put it up for me, I could see the context of 13 it. 14 Q. 15 Okay. You could put that up for me. Let's move on. MR. BUSCHEL: Government 148, please. 16 the phone calls. 17 Government's Exhibit -- is that 200? The graphs of the number of phone calls, the 18 MR. KRAVIS: 19 MR. BUSCHEL: 20 THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: 21 MR. BUSCHEL: 22 THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: 23 BY MR. BUSCHEL: 24 Q. 25 The exhibit of 167. 167. 167? 167. Thank you. In the meantime -- this exhibit is not for you. In the meantime, you recall Roger Stone testified in 785 1 September 2017? 2 A. Yes, I do. 3 Q. In front of the House? 4 A. Yes, I do. 5 Q. And on that day, after the hearing, you called him many, 6 many times, didn't you? 7 A. Yes, I did. 8 9 MR. BUSCHEL: And just take this down. BY MR. BUSCHEL: 10 Q. And -- 11 A. And texted him, as well. 12 Q. And most of those messages that day are you calling him, 13 right? 14 A. After he had testified? 15 Q. Yes. 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Okay. 18 A. To dangle the back channel deal. 19 Q. He didn't name you on that day, though? 20 A. But, he told me he was going to name me, and we had a lot 21 of back and forth about him naming me. 22 Q. You called him -- 23 A. He did not get a -- he did not get a subpoena. 24 named me without a subpoena. 25 Q. Now -And that's what I was -- He just Is it true, sir, that on that day that Roger Stone 786 1 testified, you called him upwards of 62 times? 2 A. 3 him because he wasn't answering the phone. 4 there that there was -- that he had a back channel. 5 that out there. 6 was voluntary. 7 Q. 8 voluntarily -- 9 A. 62 times, yeah. I -- maybe. Maybe trying to get ahold of Just volunteered it. And he dangled out I think the whole thing Right. Since -- so you're upset with Roger Stone that he That he voluntarily. They didn't ask him to testify. 10 just showed up and testified. 11 Q. And had he -- 12 A. And then he puts me into the middle of it. 13 Q. Had he -- 14 A. I didn't ask for this. 15 the car. 16 Q. 17 this? I'm the bystander. He All right? He's driving I got hit on the side of the road. Had he been subpoenaed, you would have felt better about 18 MR. ZELINSKY: 19 THE COURT: 20 He put Objection. Speculation. Well, that was one of the aspects of it that bothered you? 21 THE WITNESS: What bothered me, that my name was 22 going to be thrown out there, yes. That he was going to put my 23 name out there. 24 out there. 25 something that I knew going back, circumstantially, he was And I tried to -- Please, don't put my name I wasn't the guy. Exactly -- but, this is 787 1 going to put my name. 2 he said to me, Why should I go to jail for you? 3 BY MR. BUSCHEL: 4 Q. 5 voluntarily did it, as opposed to being compelled to do it by 6 subpoena? 7 A. 8 Listen, he was showing off there. 9 doing. 10 And I -- and we had conversations, and And another thing that was bothering you is that he He voluntarily went up there and put it on YouTube. He put it on YouTube. Okay? That's what he was He delivered a 47-page screed that he read. 11 Look, did you see it? 12 Q. Mr. Credico -- 13 A. He simultaneously put it on YouTube. 14 Q. My question is this: 15 subpoenaed, rather than volunteered? 16 A. He was showing off. Would you have felt better if he was Well, when he starts calling me a rat the following year-- 17 MR. ZELINSKY: Objection. 18 A. -- and he volunteers my name, yes. 19 BY MR. BUSCHEL: 20 Q. 21 television appearances talking about this publicly, haven't 22 you? 23 A. Dozens and dozens? 24 Q. Yes. 25 A. Yes. Since that time you have made dozens and dozens of Dozens and dozens? 788 1 Q. Radio shows? 2 A. Radio shows? 3 show I've been doing out of KPFA. 4 television in a while. 5 Q. 6 shows were better to do because of your involvement in this 7 case? 8 A. Which shows would be better to do? 9 Q. Erin Burnett, Ari Melber, this one, that one, right? 10 A. Maybe. 11 in 2018, after I was named, yes, we had communications. 12 admit we had communications back then because, once again, I 13 did not want to rile the guy. 14 I can't work on his level. 15 throws a lot of junk, and I didn't want to get hit. 16 Q. 17 profile -- 18 A. Yeah -- 19 Q. -- you went on a lot of television? 20 A. I went on the shows to try to middle this. 21 understand? 22 you got this guy Ackerman accusing me of hiding something. 23 was in a box there. 24 because I took the Fifth. 25 I had some kind of knowledge from Julian Assange, and I was I've done my radio show, yes. I have a radio I haven't done any In fact, you even asked Roger Stone for advice on which Maybe. If you'd just show me what it is that I -I will I did not want to -- I can't -- All right? He plays hardball, he For someone who didn't -- who wanted to keep a low I went on Ari Melber's show. Do you Taking the Fifth, I I was in a box at that particular point He, Mr. Ackerman, extrapolating that 789 1 trying to clarify it. 2 MR. ZELINSKY: 3 THE COURT: Objection. All right. 4 BY MR. BUSCHEL: 5 Q. 6 about something, right? 7 A. 8 to -- I'm trying to explain myself, to extricate the perception 9 that I was a back channel. That's what happens when you go on television and talk When you go, a lot of people want you to go on and try And that finally happened when I 10 saw Michael Isikoff. 11 Q. 12 Amendment, you are asserting your First Amendment rights as a 13 journalist, true? 14 A. 15 again in November of 2017. 16 the House Intel Committee about those meetings. 17 talking about 2016, when I didn't see him. 18 before the House Intel Committee and I had seen Assange a 19 couple of times unrelated to this, you know, that was one of 20 my -- I could use that. 21 And today you told the jury, in addition to the Fifth I wanted to use -- I had seen Assange in September of 2017, I certainly did not want to talk to I didn't mind But, if I had gone I could use that. I'm not really a journalist. I'm a comedian that had 22 a radio show. So, you know, that was one of the options. 23 Q. Do you know who David Lugo is? 24 A. Yes, I do. 25 Q. And is it true that you told him that you were the back 790 1 channel -- 2 A. It was one of those things when -- 3 Q. -- for Roger Stone? 4 A. Can I explain that? 5 Q. Can you answer my question first? 6 A. I don't know if I told him that or not. 7 those, wink, I'm the so-called back channel, yes, when I booked 8 Roger on a documentary that Mr. Lugo asked me to book. 9 booked Mr. Stone on there. I did one of And I We went up there and we taped him. 10 And before we got there I said, I'm the so-called back -- you 11 know, it's one of those things. 12 Q. 13 were the back channel? 14 A. 15 A year later or four months later, when he started writing 16 stuff out, when he started putting hit pieces on me, did I 17 threaten him? 18 Q. Did you threatened Mr. Lugo, if he were to say that you Right then? THE COURT: A. Did I threaten him right then? Well, show me what I threatened him with. Come on, Mr. Credico. 19 20 No, not then. Did you or didn't you? Okay. Show me what I threatened him with. 21 THE COURT: That's argumentative. 22 that way. 23 argue with the witness. 24 BY MR. BUSCHEL: 25 Q. You cannot put it If you have a question, ask a question. Did you or didn't you, sir? You can't 791 1 A. Did I threaten him? Show me what you're -- show me 2 something specific I threatened him with. 3 Q. Did you verbally threaten him? 4 A. I had an argument with him, a long argument, because he was 5 saying I was the back channel. 6 out of Buffalo, out of the West Palm Beach or Palm Coast or 7 whatever, saying that I was the back channel. 8 Q. Did you -- 9 A. And he totally double-cross -- I'm the one who got He went on one of these shows 10 Mr. Stone on his show, yes. 11 Q. So you -- 12 A. Okay. 13 went to Julian Assange and got material to give them. 14 15 I'm the back channel. MR. ZELINSKY: A. I'm the big back channel. I Objection. I mean, come on, buddy. 16 THE COURT: Just -- Mr. Credico. 17 Can you ask a specific question with a date and time 18 and some words in it so he can answer your question? 19 BY MR. BUSCHEL: 20 Q. At the time you're referring to -- 21 THE COURT: 22 MR. BUSCHEL: 23 No. Do you -- I don't know the date, Judge, when he did it. 24 THE COURT: Okay. 25 MR. ZELINSKY: Your Honor, may we approach? 792 1 THE COURT: Yes. 2 (Bench discussion:) 3 THE COURT: You have suggested through your 4 questions, repeatedly, that you have knowledge of a specific 5 threat when you said, Come on, you did it, didn't you?" 6 Now, I want -- if you want him to answer that 7 question, I think you need to say, On or about this -- some 8 specific period of time -- you said something specific to the 9 person. 10 Otherwise, you are just arguing with him and we're done and you need to go on to your next question. 11 MR. BUSCHEL: 12 (Open court:) Okay. 13 BY MR. BUSCHEL: 14 Q. 15 you recall what year it was? 16 A. 17 booking his show. 18 apartment with him that day, and we stopped at a coffee shop, 19 at Starbucks, while we were waiting for Mr. Stone to show up at 20 his Morningside apartment at the time. This conversation that you were having with Mr. Lugo, do I had a hundred conversations with Mr. Lugo because I was 21 And I went up there, to Mr. Stone's So -- and I was dragging Mr. Lugo around. 22 booker. 23 Alex Jones and alt-right people than me. 24 Q. 25 that time, did you get into an argument? I was his And he ended up being closer to Mr. Stone and And during one of these conversations you had with him at 793 1 A. 2 him. Did I threaten him? What do you have there? 3 4 I don't know what you mean, threaten THE COURT: What do you have written there? The question was, Did you get in an argument? 5 THE WITNESS: 6 THE COURT: 7 THE WITNESS: 8 THE COURT: 9 THE WITNESS: We got into many arguments, yes. Yes? Yes. We did get into an argument, yes. Next question. But, not the day I took him up to 10 interview Mr. Stone. 11 BY MR. BUSCHEL: 12 Q. 13 Mr. Spitzer and the grandfather. 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. You claim that you did not do -- leave that voicemail 16 message, correct? 17 A. 18 entire life. 19 Q. 20 impression of Roger Stone doing the Spitzer voice? 21 A. 22 person. 23 spoofed the number at 3 o'clock in the morning -- I don't even 24 know what spoofing is -- put in his number? 25 Regarding -- you were asked a few questions about It's the most absurd allegation I've ever heard in my But, you actually -- you publicly, on YouTube, did an Come on. Don't even -- it's so absurd. To do Roger Stone? He's not a famous So you think that I called up, This is beyond the theater of the absurd when you 794 1 bring something like that up. 2 about. 3 Q. Did you do the YouTube video? 4 A. Somebody asked me to do a Roger Stone impression. 5 it was his friend, Frank Morano, or one of these guys, try to 6 do it. 7 doing a documentary, Get Me Roger Stone, which I was later cut 8 out off, just to prove that it wasn't me. Why don't you play that and see how well I do his voice? Play that YouTube so they can hear how great it is. 11 MR. ZELINSKY: 12 THE COURT: 13 Again, I'm not sure what you're objecting But, can you try -- I know this is an intense experience -- to not argue with the lawyer? 16 THE WITNESS: 17 THE COURT: 18 Objection. to. 14 15 I think They gave to me a script to read because they were 9 10 It's not even worth talking All right. He'll ask questions. Answer the question. 19 THE WITNESS: 20 THE COURT: Sorry. If it's an improper question, there are 21 people whose job it is to object to the question, and we'll 22 take it question by question. 23 THE WITNESS: 24 THE COURT: 25 THE WITNESS: Okay. All right. Right. So, next question. I'm sorry. Excuse me, again. 795 1 THE COURT: I'm not saying you did anything wrong. 2 I'm just trying to calm things down here. 3 BY MR. BUSCHEL: 4 Q. 5 dogs? 6 A. 7 a dog lover. 8 Q. Okay. 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. And he loves your dogs? 11 A. Does he love my dog? 12 think he would steal a dog, no. 13 dog lover, dog lovers like dogs. 14 Q. 15 shown, you didn't think he was going to hurt your dog, did you? 16 A. 17 I think he was, you know, like, pretty riled up at that time, 18 and he was -- you know, didn't like what I was saying, 19 rebutting what was untrue by him, and, so, he -- you know, 20 that's what he -- he talked about the dog. You'll agree that you know that Roger Stone has dogs, loves Yes, I do. He's got three -- I've met the dogs. And he's I acknowledge that. And he rescues dogs? He's good with dogs, you know. I think he loves all dogs. I don't I'm sure he likes -- you're a You know what I mean? So in reference to your dog and the text message you were I don't think he was going to steal the dog, no, I don't. 21 But, you know the problem is, is that when this gets 22 out there, that I don't take care of the dog, other people get 23 ideas. 24 taking care of my dog. 25 Q. So I didn't want that to go out there, that I wasn't I mean, this was just an e-mail between you and him? 796 1 A. Yes. Yes. It was, yes. 2 in fact, I know he would have never touched that dog. 3 right? All So it was hyperbole by him. 4 MR. BUSCHEL: 5 The top, please. 6 No. 7 And I don't think he was ever -- No. Government Exhibit 84, please. Just the top. Just "Attention," et al. Just "To." 8 Okay. 9 BY MR. BUSCHEL: 10 Q. 11 "This whole back-channel nonsense is much ado about nothing. 12 find it amazing that it gets any attention at all." 13 Mr. Credico, on March 10th, 2018, you write to Roger Stone, I You wrote that? 14 A. Looks like I did. Looks like from my e-mail. 15 Q. Did you mean it at the time that you wrote it? 16 A. Did I mean that I thought the back-channel thing was a 17 joke, for there to be a back channel? 18 it was a joke that I was the back channel. 19 Q. Much ado about nothing? 20 A. Much ado about nothing. 21 much ado about nothing because I wasn't the back channel. 22 Q. Yes, of course I thought About me being a back channel, Very good. 23 MR. BUSCHEL: Thanks. 24 Thank you, Judge. 25 THE COURT: Thank you, sir. About how much -- 797 1 MR. ZELINSKY: 2 THE COURT: 3 (Indicating.) Okay. We'll complete the redirect, and then we'll break for lunch. 4 REDIRECT EXAMINATION 5 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 6 Q. 7 just now you were asked some questions about some Twitter posts 8 that you made. 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. I would like to go back to those posts for just a minute. Mr. Credico, at the beginning of your cross-examination Do you remember that? 11 MR. ZELINSKY: 12 jurors' screens are on. Mr. Haley, if you could make sure the 13 This is government -- 14 THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: 15 admitted? 16 17 MR. ZELINSKY: No. But, there's no objection from the defense to admitting this. 18 THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: 19 MR. ZELINSKY: 20 THE COURT: 21 22 23 Is it something previously Are you moving it in? We're about to. We need to have a name and number at some point. MR. ZELINSKY: Well, it's about to get one because it hasn't been provided to the government until just now. 24 THE COURT: Okay. 25 MR. ZELINSKY: That's fine. All right. This is Government's Exhibit 211. 798 1 THE COURT: 2 MR. BUSCHEL: 3 THE COURT: 4 MR. ZELINSKY: 5 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 6 Q. Any objection to its admission? No. All right. You can show it to the jury. Thank you, Your Honor. Mr. Credico -- please wait a moment. 7 This is Government's Exhibit 211. 8 Mr. Credico, is this the text message -- one of the 9 Tweets that you were presented with in your testimony? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. And it says, "Assange to drop coup de grâce hammer on 12 career criminal Clinton"? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. That was a public Tweet? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. And you testified at the time you believed, for that 17 matter, you were blocked by Mr. Stone? 18 A. I think so, yes. 19 20 MR. ZELINSKY: we now move in. 21 THE COURT: 22 MR. BUSCHEL: 23 THE COURT: 24 MR. ZELINSKY: 25 This is Government's Exhibit 212 that Honor? All right. Any objection to 212? None. All right. You can show it to the jury. Can we publish it to the jury, Your 799 1 THE COURT: Yes. 2 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 3 Q. 4 shown earlier -- or, the second Tweet that you were shown 5 earlier? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. And this is another public Tweet? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Is it sent in any way to Roger Stone? 10 A. No. 11 Q. Directed in any way to Roger Stone? 12 A. No. 13 Q. This is Government's Exhibit 213. Mr. Credico, is this the second text message you were 14 Mr. Credico, is this the third Tweet that you were 15 shown at the beginning of your testimony? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. And is it, in fact, a re-Tweet of a public article from 18 NewsPunch.com? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Is it directed in any way to Roger Stone? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Do any of these three Tweets that you reviewed this morning 23 in any way indicate that you were sending information to 24 Roger Stone? 25 A. No. 800 1 Q. Do any of these Tweets in any way indicate that you had 2 inside information you were seeking to convey to Roger Stone? 3 A. No. 4 THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: 5 THE COURT: 6 MR. ZELINSKY: 7 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 8 Q. Move in? They've already been admitted. They've been admitted. I want to turn your attention now to August of 2016. 9 You were asked a lot of questions about 2018, 2019; 10 is that correct, sir? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. I want to focus you on August of 2016. 13 A. Okay. 14 Q. When Roger -- you heard Roger Stone say he had a back 15 channel on or about August 8th, 2016; is that correct? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. At that time had you provided Roger Stone with any 18 information about WikiLeaks? 19 A. No, sir. 20 Q. Do you believe that Roger Stone was talking about you on 21 August 8th? 22 A. No, sir. 23 Q. Did you tell Roger Stone, repeatedly, you were not the back 24 channel he was referring to on August 8th? 25 A. Yes. Yes. 801 1 Q. Did you ever tell Roger Stone that you -- in fact, that was 2 you, you were the guy he was talking about on August 8th? 3 A. No, I never did. 4 Q. Did you try to set the record straight with Mr. Stone 5 repeatedly, including prior to his testimony, that you were not 6 the person he referred to on August 8th? 7 A. Endlessly, yes. 8 9 MR. ZELINSKY: If we could put up Government's Exhibit 204. 10 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 11 Q. 12 series of clips from the exhibit you reviewed, the exhibits 13 that were put in today, where you referenced Roger Stone's back 14 channel from August of 2016; is that right? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. And when you consistent -- you began referring, in the top 17 there, it's September 18th, 2016; is that correct? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. And there's another message in October of 2016; is that 20 correct? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. There's another message in January of 2017; is that 23 correct? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. And another one in January of 2018; is that correct? Sir, you saw this earlier. This demonstrative, it's a 802 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. All of those references to Mr. Stone's back channel, sir, 3 are they references to yourself? 4 A. No. 5 Q. Were you trying to make sure that the truth was clear, that 6 you were not Roger Stone's back channel in August, repeatedly, 7 to Mr. Stone? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Did you tell that to him well before his testimony in the 10 House? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Did you continue to tell that to him after his testimony 13 before the House? 14 A. Yes. 15 MR. ZELINSKY: 16 THE COURT: 17 All right. Mr. Credico, you are excused as a witness in this case, and you can step down. 18 19 No further questions. Members of the jury, we're going to take our lunch break now. Seems like the appropriate time. 20 You've got everything? 21 And we'll return -- we'll resume at -- let's say, 22 23 1:45. All right. We'll start with the next government witness. During your lunch, again, you've heard some evidence, 24 but you haven't heard all the evidence. So, please don't 25 discuss the case among yourselves or with anyone else. 803 1 Thank you. Have a pleasant lunch. 2 (Jurors leave.) 3 THE COURT: All right. Mr. Zelinsky, I would note 4 that the defense gave you a lot of leeway, did not object. 5 But, redirect is not cross and redirect is not closing 6 argument. 7 questions, but probably not questions as leading as those in 8 future redirect examinations. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 And you don't -- you have license to ask focused All right. Everybody have a good lunch. (Recess.) * * * 804 1 2 CERTIFICATE OF OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 3 4 I, JANICE DICKMAN, do hereby certify that the above and 5 foregoing constitutes a true and accurate transcript of my 6 stenographic notes and is a full, true and complete transcript 7 of the proceedings to the best of my ability. 8 Dated this 8th day of November 2019 9 10 11 ________________________________ 12 Janice E. Dickman, CRR, CMR, CCR Official Court Reporter Room 6523 333 Constitution Avenue, N.W. 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682:8, 730:20 easily [1] - 678:24 East [2] - 676:6, 676:10 echelon [1] - 723:11 Ecuadorian [3] - 755:10, 759:2, 765:15 ed [1] - 744:20 effect [3] - 693:18, 746:24, 747:2 eight [1] - 693:12 either [5] - 680:8, 711:8, 726:16, 746:9, 773:16 elaborate [1] - 690:3 elaboration [1] - 680:8 elected [1] - 778:13 election [7] - 696:19, 708:6, 728:23, 729:1, 753:23, 754:2, 754:4 elevated [1] - 749:11 elicited [1] - 764:25 Eliot [3] - 716:6, 716:10, 716:19 Elizabeth [1] - 717:15 Email [8] - 675:18, 675:18, 675:19, 675:23, 676:5, 676:8, 676:12, 676:17 email [23] - 682:1, 682:4, 682:14, 682:15, 683:1, 683:24, 685:3, 685:12, 685:14, 698:10, 714:11, 714:12, 715:8, 721:16, 722:14, 722:18, 723:5, 723:23, 723:24, 724:2, 724:10, 724:25, 726:8 emails [7] - 682:6, 687:8, 701:17, 738:18, 738:21, 758:2, 772:15 embarrassed [1] - 721:1 embassy [6] - 753:14, 753:19, 755:12, 759:2, 760:14, 761:7 emotion [1] - 721:5 Empire [1] - 763:12 encouraged [1] - 782:21 end [10] - 685:21, 688:13, 736:8, 743:9, 762:10, 771:19, 778:5, 778:14, 778:22, 781:1 ended [3] - 735:19, 767:11, 792:22 endlessly [1] - 801:7 enlarge [12] - 684:25, 689:3, 691:7, 691:18, 693:12, 696:1, 701:23, 715:21, 721:12, 722:8, 723:2, 725:8 enlarged [1] - 682:16 enlisted [1] - 734:3 ensued [1] - 708:12 enter [2] - 680:11, 731:19 enters [1] - 679:14 entire [7] - 736:18, 736:23, 749:22, 750:5, 771:17, 793:18 entities [1] - 678:24 Erin [7] - 722:5, 725:15, 725:17, 725:18, 725:21, 788:9 Errol [1] - 704:6 escalate [1] - 723:21 essentially [2] - 769:11, 772:4 et [1] - 796:6 evening [1] - 680:14 event [4] - 748:14, 748:15, 748:16, 765:22 events [3] - 691:4, 696:20, 782:16 eventually [1] - 729:6 everywhere [2] - 748:21, 748:23 evidence [6] - 701:13, 701:16, 705:9, 742:4, 802:23, 802:24 exact [4] - 721:5, 745:24, 745:25 exactly [10] - 683:8, 689:22, 732:10, 732:13, 740:10, 745:24, 746:14, 765:2, 772:5, 786:24 exaggerations [1] - 733:8 EXAMINATION [3] - 681:15, 731:23, 797:4 examination [8] - 731:7, 732:22, 764:20, 770:16, 770:19, 770:25, 776:1, 797:6 Examination [3] - 676:21, 676:21, 676:22 examinations [2] - 780:21, 803:8 examine [1] - 772:7 except [2] - 745:19, 749:11 excerpt [1] - 749:21 exchanges [1] - 784:2 excuse [1] - 794:25 excused [2] - 731:12, 802:16 Exhibit [41] - 681:19, 682:12, 684:24, 688:8, 689:2, 691:5, 691:6, 691:14, 691:17, 691:23, 692:22, 693:11, 695:16, 701:9, 701:21, 702:14, 704:10, 704:25, 709:25, 710:7, 711:9, 711:24, 712:23, 713:15, 715:5, 721:7, 722:23, 723:25, 725:7, 725:23, 726:6, 727:19, 728:2, 754:12, 784:17, 796:4, 797:25, 798:7, 798:19, 799:13, 801:9 exhibit [17] - 684:25, 703:15, 703:18, 706:2, 706:20, 707:13, 714:1, 715:16, 715:20, 720:7, 722:7, 730:1, 730:3, 760:18, 784:15, 784:24, 801:12 exhibits [1] - 801:12 expect [1] - 757:20 experience [1] - 794:15 experts [1] - 705:23 explain [3] - 735:21, 789:8, 790:4 explaining [2] - 720:17, 749:17 express [1] - 678:16 expressed [1] - 686:1 extended [1] - 763:14 extent [1] - 773:19 extrapolate [2] - 712:16, 783:4 extrapolating [2] - 712:14, 788:24 extricate [1] - 789:8 eyes [1] - 678:18 F Facebook [4] - 759:23, 760:16, 760:18, 760:22 facilitate [1] - 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723:8 figure [1] - 749:10 file [1] - 728:17 Files [1] - 763:13 finally [4] - 708:15, 766:3, 767:14, 789:9 Financial [1] - 676:2 fine [5] - 699:25, 751:20, 756:18, 779:21, 797:24 finish [2] - 753:9, 781:8 finished [3] - 681:25, 686:9, 741:8 fired [1] - 716:2 first [25] - 685:18, 686:20, 687:3, 697:9, 698:9, 699:10, 710:25, 712:7, 714:20, 718:2, 719:13, 721:13, 728:6, 730:3, 736:6, 738:13, 739:5, 740:2, 749:3, 764:20, 770:12, 770:15, 775:17, 783:11, 790:5 First [4] - 699:20, 700:10, 701:4, 789:12 Five [4] - 689:12, 689:13, 689:24, 783:12 five [5] - 725:25, 765:25, 776:17, 777:6, 777:11 FL [4] - 675:22, 676:4, 676:7, 676:11 flew [1] - 689:10 floor [1] - 767:12 Florida [4] - 735:10, 757:7, 757:8 flown [1] - 717:10 Flying [1] - 708:19 focus [2] - 770:24, 800:12 focused [2] - 737:23, 803:6 focusing [1] - 780:23 follow [4] - 680:5, 680:15, 688:5, 698:1 follow-up [1] - 680:5 followed [1] - 697:24 following [10] - 680:22, 682:23, 697:25, 709:9, 710:6, 719:18, 738:15, 739:4, 760:19, 787:16 food [2] - 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780:20 inside [3] - 748:23, 753:14, 800:2 instances [1] - 737:16 instructions [3] - 680:16, 680:19, 693:7 Intel [5] - 695:10, 695:22, 728:10, 789:16, 789:18 Intelligence [18] - 683:12, 687:19, 690:18, 691:9, 691:20, 693:1, 693:4, 693:15, 694:11, 694:17, 695:24, 702:1, 706:24, 710:3, 720:8, 720:12, 778:1, 782:2 intense [1] - 794:14 814 intent [1] - 761:13 interacting [1] - 681:1 Intercept [3] - 709:12, 709:13, 709:16 intercept [1] - 709:17 Intercepted [2] - 709:19, 782:18 interest [2] - 723:7, 782:17 intermediary [7] - 684:21, 732:11, 762:17, 768:7, 768:9, 769:4, 769:8 interpret [3] - 722:16, 756:18, 756:19 interview [14] - 687:7, 687:14, 691:12, 691:21, 698:6, 725:14, 738:3, 749:9, 763:8, 763:14, 764:14, 767:16, 768:16, 793:10 interviewed [8] - 692:25, 693:5, 693:8, 693:14, 736:4, 736:15, 767:3, 767:4 interviewing [1] - 748:24 interviews [1] - 767:18 introduced [4] - 734:8, 734:11, 749:3, 749:13 introducing [1] - 749:1 introductory [1] - 772:3 inveigled [1] - 735:20 investigation [3] - 712:4, 736:12, 782:7 investigations [1] - 710:14 investigators [1] - 736:13 invited [3] - 765:22, 765:23, 766:24 invoked [1] - 778:4 invoking [1] - 782:2 involved [3] - 683:25, 684:3, 722:19 involvement [1] - 788:6 irrelevant [1] - 754:6 irresponsible [1] - 678:13 Irwin [1] - 752:5 Isikoff [1] - 789:10 issue [1] - 734:4 issues [2] - 714:5, 773:15 Italian [2] - 697:1, 784:3 items [1] - 732:17 ITV [1] - 687:8 J JACKSON [1] - 675:9 jail [1] - 787:2 Janice [2] - 676:14, 804:12 JANICE [1] - 804:4 JaniceDickmanDCD@gmail. com [1] - 676:17 January [12] - 682:1, 682:15, 683:1, 711:11, 712:1, 727:17, 730:16, 730:17, 730:21, 730:23, 801:22, 801:25 Jason [1] - 675:6 Jed [2] - 675:14, 677:9 Jeremy [2] - 709:18, 740:4 Jimmy [3] - 748:19, 748:24, 749:22 job [4] - 725:3, 740:25, 741:9, 794:21 John [3] - 675:14, 734:15, 749:18 Johnson [5] - 699:13, 739:7, 755:3, 755:6, 760:9 joke [2] - 796:17, 796:18 Jon [1] - 675:15 Jonathan [2] - 675:13, 677:8 jonathan.kravis3@usdoj.gov [1] - 675:18 Jones [1] - 792:23 journalist [8] - 697:1, 697:11, 699:17, 700:11, 720:15, 782:10, 789:13, 789:21 Jr [1] - 675:6 Judge [9] - 677:13, 729:3, 731:21, 737:25, 751:19, 763:1, 774:3, 791:22, 796:24 JUDGE [2] - 675:9, 675:10 judge [2] - 768:14, 773:21 Julian [52] - 687:7, 699:11, 719:15, 719:24, 729:3, 730:12, 732:4, 732:9, 738:4, 738:12, 739:10, 739:12, 744:2, 745:4, 747:3, 747:6, 747:11, 747:25, 748:3, 748:4, 749:12, 750:8, 750:15, 750:17, 752:13, 752:18, 752:21, 753:3, 753:5, 753:12, 754:1, 755:1, 756:16, 759:11, 759:15, 760:1, 761:12, 761:14, 765:1, 765:5, 765:20, 766:4, 766:8, 766:20, 766:21, 767:19, 770:3, 770:9, 788:25, 791:13 July [11] - 704:18, 704:21, 704:22, 719:14, 719:22, 720:1, 741:16, 742:7, 742:18, 743:14, 769:4 June [5] - 687:7, 687:13, 740:5, 740:6, 765:18 junk [1] - 788:15 JURORS [2] - 681:23, 758:24 jurors [7] - 678:15, 680:10, 680:11, 731:8, 731:11, 731:19, 803:2 jurors' [1] - 797:12 JURY [2] - 675:4, 675:8 jury [18] - 678:6, 731:18, 736:16, 741:23, 768:25, 769:2, 769:7, 770:17, 771:3, 771:9, 772:14, 773:12, 773:22, 789:11, 798:3, 798:23, 798:24, 802:18 Justice [2] - 733:15, 744:22 juxtapose [1] - 772:24 juxtaposing [1] - 769:6 K Kasich [1] - 749:18 Keefe [1] - 677:11 keep [11] - 684:18, 688:13, 705:7, 714:3, 714:15, 723:22, 724:14, 728:17, 769:15, 781:12, 788:16 keeps [1] - 761:18 kept [1] - 768:6 kicked [1] - 748:15 kids [2] - 727:9, 774:21 kind [9] - 701:18, 723:20, 725:2, 768:7, 769:12, 771:19, 774:12, 783:2, 788:25 Kleenex [1] - 702:7 knowledge [4] - 716:22, 727:15, 788:25, 792:4 known [1] - 762:1 knows [4] - 711:14, 730:25, 780:16, 784:3 KPFA [2] - 696:16, 788:3 Kravis [2] - 675:13, 677:8 KRAVIS [2] - 677:7, 784:18 kryptonite [3] - 698:25, 750:8, 750:16 kunstler [1] - 745:9 Kunstler [25] - 683:22, 683:24, 684:1, 684:2, 684:3, 708:18, 709:2, 722:14, 722:17, 722:19, 727:24, 728:21, 728:22, 729:2, 729:4, 729:9, 729:20, 733:15, 733:19, 743:24, 751:2, 757:13, 757:15, 757:20, 758:13 Kunstler's [2] - 684:6, 708:23 L laid [1] - 688:5 landing [1] - 721:2 Las [2] - 676:6, 676:10 last [10] - 700:22, 724:10, 724:11, 736:6, 736:7, 763:25, 764:2, 777:3, 778:15, 779:25 late [2] - 716:23, 765:16 late-night [1] - 716:23 Lauderdale [4] - 675:22, 676:4, 676:7, 676:11 laugh [3] - 692:19, 692:20, 692:21 laughed [1] - 692:13 law [1] - 704:9 LAW [2] - 675:21, 676:9 Law [1] - 717:13 Laws [1] - 686:24 laws [4] - 733:21, 733:23, 733:24, 733:25 lawyer [26] - 680:8, 692:6, 692:18, 693:22, 694:3, 728:5, 744:7, 744:11, 744:24, 745:14, 815 745:22, 746:20, 747:3, 778:17, 778:18, 778:22, 779:11, 779:20, 780:2, 780:16, 781:14, 781:18, 781:25, 782:1, 794:15 lawyer's [1] - 779:16 lawyers [22] - 680:3, 694:6, 694:20, 707:20, 707:25, 726:14, 736:18, 736:21, 737:2, 743:24, 744:2, 744:3, 744:4, 744:6, 744:25, 745:16, 756:22, 757:12, 777:25, 778:2, 782:9 lay [2] - 764:24, 772:3 lead [2] - 772:8, 772:19 leader [2] - 747:8, 747:9 leading [1] - 803:7 least [1] - 704:8 leave [5] - 731:11, 745:23, 773:14, 793:15, 803:2 lectern [1] - 677:6 led [1] - 732:14 leeway [1] - 803:4 left [5] - 679:20, 717:20, 717:22, 774:19, 774:20 left-wingers [2] - 774:19, 774:20 legal [9] - 697:12, 720:14, 744:16, 744:19, 744:20, 744:21, 752:19, 756:22, 773:15 less [2] - 695:15, 780:24 letter [10] - 691:9, 692:17, 706:6, 714:10, 755:15, 759:18, 767:1, 779:20, 781:19, 782:1 level [1] - 788:14 liar [2] - 713:11, 726:17 liberal [1] - 709:17 Libya [6] - 722:12, 723:24, 757:19, 758:6, 760:4, 760:6 license [1] - 803:6 lie [3] - 705:8, 730:12, 733:4 lied [3] - 732:19, 737:10, 769:7 lies [7] - 732:21, 732:25, 733:6, 733:8, 737:17, 737:19, 737:20 life [4] - 684:12, 686:16, 706:10, 793:18 likely [2] - 695:15, 718:6 likewise [1] - 732:8 limited [1] - 695:13 linchpin [1] - 684:4 line [29] - 682:16, 685:21, 686:19, 686:20, 687:3, 699:24, 700:13, 701:10, 702:16, 703:1, 703:14, 704:4, 704:10, 704:13, 704:23, 705:5, 705:17, 706:20, 706:21, 707:12, 707:18, 708:24, 709:8, 709:11, 724:6, 724:10, 724:11, 730:3 lines [3] - 683:2, 706:4, 716:13 list [1] - 682:20 listen [5] - 680:6, 740:18, 773:13, 773:19, 787:8 listening [1] - 773:22 live [4] - 751:3, 751:15, 751:25, 757:8 lived [2] - 684:12, 751:1 lives [5] - 751:4, 751:7, 757:7, 757:8 living [3] - 751:3, 751:9, 759:11 Lizza [1] - 705:6 London [12] - 689:10, 695:21, 697:2, 698:10, 705:19, 753:19, 755:9, 757:16, 759:2, 783:16, 783:17, 783:21 look [14] - 682:14, 686:8, 687:24, 690:16, 715:7, 715:10, 722:6, 725:2, 739:10, 741:18, 741:25, 746:3, 760:9, 787:11 looked [2] - 682:6, 720:18 looking [1] - 742:6 looks [3] - 759:4, 796:14 lose [1] - 776:7 Louis [2] - 704:6 love [2] - 734:23, 795:11 lover [2] - 795:7, 795:13 lovers [1] - 795:13 loves [3] - 795:4, 795:10, 795:11 low [1] - 788:16 Luca [2] - 784:6, 784:8 Lugo [4] - 789:23, 790:12, 792:16, 792:21 lugo [2] - 790:8, 792:14 Luis [2] - 742:7, 743:2 lunch [16] - 752:12, 752:18, 752:21, 753:3, 753:5, 753:12, 753:14, 753:15, 781:8, 781:10, 781:11, 797:3, 802:18, 802:23, 803:1, 803:9 M ma'am [1] - 742:3 magazine [1] - 709:17 mail [12] - 685:25, 687:16, 687:17, 756:11, 757:4, 757:10, 757:18, 757:20, 758:12, 769:3, 795:25, 796:14 mails [1] - 685:16 main [3] - 758:3, 758:4, 758:15 maintain [4] - 716:4, 723:15, 723:17, 723:19 major [1] - 756:22 majority [1] - 695:12 man [2] - 716:2, 784:8 Man [1] - 716:25 manager [2] - 716:2, 759:17 Marando [2] - 675:14, 677:9 March [15] - 713:4, 713:9, 714:18, 715:8, 715:12, 721:9, 721:17, 723:5, 724:5, 725:20, 725:25, 765:11, 765:16, 766:22, 796:10 Margaret [10] - 683:22, 683:24, 728:18, 728:19, 728:21, 729:20, 743:24, 751:2, 757:13, 757:15 marked [1] - 689:6 Martin [1] - 763:8 martinis [2] - 716:5, 734:19 Marty [1] - 745:19 material [2] - 719:15, 791:13 matter [5] - 712:14, 718:1, 750:19, 779:23, 798:17 matter-of-fact [1] - 750:19 matters [6] - 677:19, 678:7, 686:14, 686:16, 710:22, 727:22 mean [20] - 690:2, 690:18, 690:25, 692:16, 701:16, 701:17, 740:10, 755:7, 759:14, 761:11, 762:9, 775:20, 779:19, 784:1, 791:15, 793:1, 795:13, 795:25, 796:15, 796:16 means [2] - 680:23, 703:12 meant [4] - 727:12, 753:25, 759:25, 760:8 meantime [2] - 784:24, 784:25 media [2] - 678:21, 739:21 medication [1] - 700:21 meet [11] - 679:5, 682:23, 698:6, 755:9, 765:21, 767:5, 767:7, 767:19, 768:3, 768:11, 770:9 meeting [2] - 697:12, 730:11 meetings [2] - 697:6, 789:16 melber [1] - 768:16 Melber [6] - 722:5, 767:14, 767:16, 770:2, 770:7, 788:9 Melber's [1] - 788:21 melber's [1] - 768:4 members [4] - 678:9, 678:19, 679:1, 802:18 memory [2] - 728:12, 742:13 mention [2] - 721:23, 774:8 mentioned [2] - 689:16, 725:13 mere [1] - 770:23 message [66] - 685:19, 689:6, 689:8, 689:19, 689:23, 692:2, 692:12, 692:14, 698:24, 699:3, 700:18, 700:20, 700:23, 701:12, 702:16, 703:20, 703:23, 707:20, 711:12, 711:16, 712:1, 713:4, 714:17, 714:24, 715:7, 716:6, 716:9, 717:20, 717:22, 719:2, 719:20, 721:4, 722:11, 722:16, 723:2, 724:19, 724:23, 725:8, 728:6, 730:15, 735:1, 738:7, 738:8, 738:14, 739:1, 739:2, 750:7, 750:19, 753:21, 765:14, 767:13, 767:14, 768:2, 768:23, 770:3, 771:5, 771:14, 772:20, 773:5, 793:16, 795:14, 798:8, 799:3, 801:19, 801:22 816 messages [35] - 684:2, 687:21, 687:24, 689:3, 689:22, 690:9, 690:11, 691:24, 693:12, 693:18, 693:21, 694:14, 695:18, 696:1, 696:4, 697:7, 698:16, 698:20, 701:18, 701:25, 712:24, 713:1, 720:18, 724:25, 731:1, 732:4, 732:8, 738:20, 738:22, 764:12, 766:19, 766:21, 769:17, 769:23, 785:12 messaging [1] - 784:5 met [13] - 696:12, 696:14, 696:15, 696:22, 696:23, 696:24, 697:9, 710:25, 733:14, 765:17, 767:1, 769:5, 795:6 metropolitan [1] - 759:22 MI5 [1] - 759:22 MI6 [1] - 759:22 Miami [1] - 717:11 Michael [6] - 675:14, 677:9, 690:7, 690:10, 744:3, 789:10 michael.marando@usdoj.gov [1] - 675:19 mid [5] - 719:14, 719:22, 720:1, 731:7, 783:18 mid-July [3] - 719:14, 719:22, 720:1 mid-morning [1] - 731:7 mid-November [1] - 783:18 middle [2] - 786:12, 788:20 midtown [1] - 723:12 might [3] - 694:11, 695:23, 775:15 miles [1] - 765:25 million [1] - 740:15 mind [1] - 789:16 mine [2] - 684:9, 745:12 minus [1] - 735:6 minute [1] - 797:10 Miranda [5] - 742:7, 743:2, 743:3, 743:12 mischaracterization [1] - 771:2 mislead [2] - 770:17, 771:3 misquoted [1] - 724:7 Miss [3] - 684:1, 684:2, 684:3 miss [1] - 724:17 misspeaks [1] - 704:7 moment [5] - 686:7, 688:10, 691:16, 696:13, 798:6 moments [1] - 776:1 Monday [2] - 681:8, 725:19 money [1] - 734:4 month [1] - 767:15 months [5] - 747:13, 756:20, 767:1, 774:14, 790:15 Morano [2] - 702:18, 794:5 Morgan [3] - 702:19, 702:20, 702:21 MORNING [1] - 675:5 morning [26] - 677:1, 677:2, 677:7, 677:12, 677:13, 677:23, 680:13, 681:17, 681:18, 716:24, 717:20, 731:7, 731:25, 732:1, 732:2, 732:24, 733:3, 733:4, 733:5, 737:10, 746:2, 746:11, 778:3, 793:23, 799:22 Morningside [1] - 792:20 Moses [1] - 733:14 most [9] - 686:13, 687:2, 718:6, 740:25, 752:7, 771:4, 776:14, 785:12, 793:17 mostly [1] - 774:19 Mothers [3] - 686:24, 733:17, 733:20 motivation [1] - 776:18 motive [1] - 758:11 mouth [2] - 726:14, 728:17 move [41] - 683:10, 686:5, 686:19, 691:5, 691:6, 691:14, 692:22, 693:11, 694:13, 695:16, 697:16, 699:14, 701:9, 701:21, 702:25, 703:14, 704:25, 706:19, 707:12, 707:18, 708:2, 709:8, 709:25, 710:16, 711:9, 713:15, 713:25, 714:13, 715:16, 715:20, 718:12, 719:9, 720:7, 720:21, 721:7, 722:23, 723:25, 773:8, 784:14, 798:20, 800:4 movie [3] - 690:8, 702:21, 783:16 Moving [1] - 726:6 moving [9] - 710:7, 711:21, 711:24, 725:23, 727:19, 728:2, 729:25, 752:7, 797:18 MR [245] - 677:7, 677:13, 677:20, 677:21, 679:12, 679:23, 681:14, 681:16, 681:19, 681:21, 681:24, 682:12, 682:13, 684:24, 685:2, 685:18, 685:20, 686:5, 686:6, 686:19, 686:22, 688:8, 688:16, 688:19, 688:22, 688:24, 689:2, 689:5, 691:5, 691:8, 691:14, 691:19, 691:23, 692:1, 692:22, 692:24, 693:11, 693:13, 694:13, 694:15, 695:16, 695:17, 696:1, 696:3, 697:16, 697:17, 699:14, 699:16, 700:13, 700:14, 701:9, 701:11, 701:21, 701:24, 702:8, 702:11, 702:14, 702:15, 703:14, 703:17, 703:19, 704:10, 704:12, 704:25, 705:1, 706:1, 706:3, 706:19, 706:22, 707:12, 707:14, 707:18, 707:19, 709:8, 709:10, 709:25, 710:1, 710:7, 710:8, 710:10, 710:12, 710:16, 710:18, 711:9, 711:10, 713:15, 713:18, 713:25, 714:4, 714:13, 714:16, 715:5, 715:6, 715:20, 715:23, 716:14, 716:21, 718:12, 718:25, 719:1, 721:7, 721:8, 721:12, 721:15, 722:6, 722:10, 723:2, 723:4, 723:25, 724:1, 725:7, 725:12, 725:23, 725:24, 726:6, 726:7, 727:19, 727:20, 728:2, 728:3, 729:25, 730:2, 731:4, 731:21, 731:24, 737:3, 737:8, 737:25, 738:1, 741:12, 741:23, 741:24, 742:3, 742:5, 742:10, 742:20, 742:23, 743:13, 744:13, 746:12, 747:1, 751:8, 751:19, 751:24, 753:2, 753:11, 754:12, 754:17, 755:18, 755:21, 755:22, 758:19, 758:20, 759:1, 760:21, 760:25, 761:3, 762:15, 762:20, 763:1, 763:2, 764:23, 765:4, 766:12, 768:14, 768:18, 770:2, 770:5, 770:11, 771:22, 773:8, 773:10, 774:3, 774:4, 775:6, 776:22, 777:3, 777:5, 777:17, 777:22, 779:1, 779:3, 779:6, 779:17, 779:19, 779:23, 780:7, 780:9, 780:11, 780:13, 780:18, 781:3, 781:6, 781:10, 781:15, 781:22, 781:24, 783:5, 783:7, 783:10, 784:15, 784:18, 784:19, 784:21, 784:23, 785:8, 785:9, 786:18, 787:3, 787:17, 787:19, 789:2, 789:4, 790:24, 791:14, 791:19, 791:22, 791:25, 792:11, 792:13, 793:11, 794:11, 795:3, 796:4, 796:9, 796:23, 797:1, 797:5, 797:11, 797:16, 797:19, 797:22, 797:25, 798:2, 798:4, 798:5, 798:19, 798:22, 798:24, 799:2, 800:6, 800:7, 801:8, 801:10, 802:15 MSNBC [1] - 721:25 Mueller [9] - 712:2, 712:3, 712:4, 712:5, 712:6, 712:19, 712:22, 736:12 mutual [1] - 734:16 N N.W [1] - 804:13 name [15] - 684:6, 684:11, 684:21, 705:6, 772:15, 774:6, 774:8, 785:19, 785:20, 786:21, 786:23, 787:1, 787:18, 797:20 named [5] - 704:20, 725:15, 763:8, 785:24, 788:11 naming [1] - 785:21 Nancy [2] - 749:4, 749:17 napkin [1] - 702:5 Napolitano [1] - 729:3 narrative [1] - 688:5 nasty [2] - 716:25, 724:25 National [3] - 743:22, 748:8, 748:13 NE [1] - 675:21 817 near [1] - 781:1 need [17] - 678:19, 679:19, 682:21, 686:8, 707:3, 728:11, 737:22, 751:6, 751:20, 769:13, 772:4, 773:14, 773:17, 781:12, 792:7, 792:10, 797:20 needed [2] - 680:7, 729:4 negative [2] - 718:7, 724:25 network [1] - 687:8 neutralize [2] - 723:18, 757:2 neutralized [1] - 723:22 never [20] - 698:4, 707:8, 713:11, 729:11, 753:22, 753:25, 755:20, 759:19, 760:4, 760:6, 761:14, 762:22, 769:5, 769:17, 769:21, 770:20, 773:4, 796:2, 801:3 New [5] - 733:17, 733:20, 733:24, 752:1, 757:9 news [3] - 749:11, 761:7, 768:5 News [2] - 717:15, 765:23 NewsPunch.com [1] - 799:18 newsroom [1] - 749:5 Newsweek [1] - 744:20 next [31] - 681:9, 686:5, 691:6, 691:18, 694:13, 699:14, 702:25, 704:23, 706:1, 714:13, 715:16, 718:24, 720:21, 730:8, 730:10, 734:18, 743:10, 755:25, 759:23, 760:21, 764:22, 765:3, 772:4, 775:4, 776:25, 777:21, 783:8, 792:10, 793:8, 794:24, 802:22 Nickelodeon [1] - 752:4 night [1] - 716:23 Nixon [1] - 692:11 nobody [3] - 745:18, 749:10, 767:4 nominee [1] - 775:12 none [1] - 798:22 nonresponsive [1] - 783:7 nonsense [1] - 796:11 note [3] - 677:16, 700:12, 803:3 noted [1] - 716:17 notes [2] - 767:13, 804:6 nothing [11] - 697:22, 703:12, 708:11, 713:5, 713:10, 728:16, 747:13, 796:11, 796:19, 796:20, 796:21 notify [1] - 693:3 noting [1] - 677:23 November [16] - 675:6, 689:9, 691:10, 691:22, 692:2, 693:6, 695:19, 696:23, 699:6, 702:10, 763:25, 783:17, 783:18, 789:15, 804:8 Number [2] - 677:2, 731:17 number [8] - 717:18, 717:19, 779:8, 780:5, 784:16, 793:23, 793:24, 797:20 NW [2] - 675:16, 676:15 NY1 [1] - 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690:5, 725:21 stone's [1] - 762:24 Stone's [13] - 683:14, 693:7, 709:14, 709:21, 714:25, 719:3, 720:1, 749:2, 749:24, 792:17, 801:13, 802:2, 802:6 stonewall [2] - 690:5, 692:8 stoolie [1] - 726:13 stop [4] - 696:13, 751:10, 769:24, 780:22 stopped [2] - 771:20, 792:18 stories [1] - 724:25 story [2] - 713:23, 764:13 straight [3] - 725:14, 728:12, 801:4 straighten [1] - 739:18 STRATEGYSMITH [1] - 676:6 Street [2] - 675:16, 751:3 stuck [2] - 708:5, 712:12 stuff [10] - 686:13, 696:5, 697:23, 740:11, 755:19, 756:7, 757:2, 758:6, 775:21, 790:16 stupid [1] - 707:11 subject [3] - 685:3, 685:6, 724:6 submitted [1] - 714:12 subpoena [17] - 693:23, 694:4, 694:10, 694:17, 694:20, 694:23, 695:12, 695:20, 702:3, 702:12, 707:1, 712:2, 712:8, 712:19, 785:23, 785:24, 787:6 subpoenaed [5] - 693:16, 695:15, 702:1, 786:16, 787:15 subset [1] - 733:19 substance [1] - 779:11 substantive [1] - 742:25 suggest [1] - 769:7 suggested [2] - 779:10, 792:3 Suite [4] - 675:22, 676:3, 676:7, 676:10 Sullivan [1] - 750:12 summarize [1] - 771:16 supported [1] - 776:8 supporter [1] - 775:11 supporters [2] - 775:7, 775:9 supposed [6] - 692:18, 701:19, 731:1, 734:9, 768:1, 774:1 surrounding [1] - 718:1 suspicious [1] - 782:25 sustained [1] - 762:21 sworn [1] - 706:18 T table [1] - 677:9 tag [1] - 683:2 talents [2] - 715:22, 715:25 talks [1] - 760:6 tape [3] - 682:23, 683:1, 772:25 taped [1] - 790:9 Tara [2] - 676:1, 677:14 team [1] - 744:12 Telesur [1] - 763:12 television [5] - 752:3, 787:21, 788:4, 788:19, 789:5 temperament [1] - 716:3 ten [1] - 768:5 testified [16] - 684:20, 708:7, 710:19, 720:16, 734:22, 736:16, 738:2, 754:7, 754:8, 758:14, 764:19, 784:25, 785:14, 786:1, 786:10, 798:16 testify [8] - 707:3, 707:7, 707:11, 708:3, 708:8, 746:10, 778:1, 786:9 testifying [1] - 688:21 testimony [30] - 683:14, 689:16, 706:18, 707:3, 709:23, 709:24, 720:23, 736:3, 738:23, 753:22, 753:24, 755:7, 759:13, 761:10, 761:18, 764:25, 770:18, 770:22, 771:2, 771:17, 771:20, 771:25, 772:5, 773:1, 773:2, 798:9, 799:15, 801:5, 802:9, 802:12 text [37] - 684:2, 687:21, 687:24, 689:22, 690:9, 690:11, 694:13, 698:16, 698:20, 698:24, 701:18, 702:16, 712:24, 722:9, 724:25, 725:9, 738:6, 738:8, 738:14, 738:20, 738:22, 739:1, 739:2, 750:7, 750:19, 753:21, 754:18, 761:24, 764:12, 765:14, 769:3, 777:1, 783:12, 784:5, 795:14, 798:8, 799:3 texted [4] - 687:23, 759:5, 759:8, 785:11 texts [2] - 738:23, 772:8 Thanksgiving [1] - 764:1 that's.. [1] - 770:10 THE [187] - 675:1, 675:1, 675:9, 675:15, 677:1, 677:12, 677:16, 677:22, 679:13, 679:15, 679:17, 679:18, 679:20, 679:21, 679:22, 679:25, 680:12, 680:13, 681:23, 688:9, 688:12, 688:17, 688:20, 690:22, 691:1, 702:7, 702:9, 716:16, 718:13, 718:14, 718:15, 718:16, 718:19, 718:20, 718:22, 731:6, 731:12, 731:16, 731:18, 731:20, 737:5, 737:22, 740:24, 741:2, 741:3, 741:5, 741:6, 741:11, 742:1, 742:4, 742:6, 742:7, 742:8, 742:9, 742:15, 742:17, 742:18, 742:21, 742:22, 742:25, 743:1, 743:6, 743:7, 743:8, 743:9, 743:10, 743:11, 744:8, 744:9, 744:10, 744:11, 746:3, 746:5, 746:8, 746:18, 746:19, 746:20, 746:22, 746:24, 751:6, 751:9, 751:10, 751:11, 751:12, 751:13, 751:14, 751:16, 751:17, 751:20, 751:22, 752:25, 753:9, 758:14, 758:22, 758:24, 761:15, 761:16, 761:17, 761:23, 761:24, 761:25, 762:3, 762:5, 762:21, 762:22, 762:23, 764:24, 765:2, 765:3, 766:10, 766:11, 768:17, 768:19, 768:21, 770:4, 771:12, 771:24, 773:9, 773:12, 774:25, 775:2, 775:4, 776:20, 776:24, 777:16, 777:18, 777:19, 777:20, 777:21, 779:2, 779:4, 779:7, 779:18, 779:21, 780:5, 780:8, 780:12, 780:15, 780:19, 781:5, 781:7, 781:11, 781:17, 783:6, 783:8, 784:20, 784:22, 786:19, 786:21, 789:3, 790:19, 790:21, 791:16, 791:21, 791:24, 792:1, 792:3, 793:3, 793:5, 793:6, 793:7, 793:8, 793:9, 794:12, 794:16, 794:17, 794:19, 794:20, 794:23, 794:24, 794:25, 795:1, 796:25, 797:2, 797:14, 823 797:18, 797:20, 797:24, 798:1, 798:3, 798:21, 798:23, 799:1, 800:4, 800:5, 802:16, 803:3 theater [3] - 717:7, 748:11, 793:25 themselves [1] - 677:25 thereafter [1] - 711:11 they've [3] - 679:9, 800:5, 800:6 thinking [3] - 735:18, 743:3, 762:6 Third [1] - 676:3 third [1] - 799:14 thousand [1] - 708:15 threat [1] - 792:5 threaten [6] - 790:14, 790:17, 791:1, 791:3, 793:1 threatened [4] - 790:12, 790:17, 790:20, 791:2 threatening [2] - 716:25, 780:24 three [9] - 696:12, 696:22, 697:2, 718:17, 758:4, 759:19, 762:6, 795:6, 799:22 throughout [7] - 736:18, 736:23, 737:9, 737:11, 737:12, 737:14, 749:16 throw [1] - 690:17 thrown [1] - 786:22 throws [1] - 788:15 thumbs [2] - 758:22, 758:24 Thursday [1] - 685:10 tick [1] - 688:14 tight [2] - 680:24, 779:22 tightrope [1] - 708:20 today [4] - 692:6, 736:3, 789:11, 801:13 today's [1] - 681:9 together [4] - 677:24, 704:9, 732:17, 778:21 Tom [4] - 716:1, 716:2, 749:7, 749:13 ton [1] - 690:11 tongue [1] - 780:1 tonight [2] - 703:13, 705:6 took [16] - 708:14, 708:16, 709:6, 710:19, 712:12, 734:10, 734:12, 753:14, 759:21, 760:13, 760:15, 760:17, 771:5, 782:25, 788:24, 793:9 top [16] - 682:16, 682:22, 685:8, 686:20, 689:4, 693:12, 693:21, 696:7, 704:13, 713:6, 719:20, 777:13, 796:5, 796:6, 801:16 totally [3] - 724:16, 765:15, 791:9 touch [2] - 728:22, 729:9 touched [1] - 796:2 touting [1] - 774:13 towards [1] - 736:8 transcript [3] - 769:14, 804:5, 804:6 TRANSCRIPT [1] - 675:8 transcripts [1] - 678:22 transpired [3] - 678:5, 691:4, 720:25 TRIAL [2] - 675:4, 675:8 trial [6] - 680:20, 681:4, 695:21, 696:16, 696:25 tried [4] - 771:16, 772:8, 772:19, 786:23 Tromp [1] - 707:7 trouble [1] - 714:22 true [26] - 678:11, 686:12, 686:13, 687:11, 688:4, 700:23, 719:24, 720:2, 724:20, 724:22, 732:9, 733:15, 734:7, 734:8, 736:1, 737:1, 740:8, 741:13, 769:5, 772:19, 783:11, 785:25, 789:13, 789:25, 804:5, 804:6 Trump [13] - 707:7, 708:6, 708:22, 713:6, 713:24, 750:12, 774:16, 774:20, 775:2, 775:19, 775:24, 776:5, 776:13 Trump's [2] - 775:14, 776:2 trust [1] - 680:15 truth [5] - 705:18, 705:23, 705:24, 722:3, 802:5 try [12] - 698:14, 705:2, 713:11, 769:6, 772:11, 773:2, 781:7, 788:20, 789:7, 794:5, 794:14, 801:4 trying [21] - 688:12, 695:3, 722:11, 723:22, 724:17, 748:6, 749:7, 749:9, 756:21, 757:2, 761:17, 761:20, 761:22, 773:21, 780:22, 780:23, 786:2, 789:1, 789:8, 795:2, 802:5 Tuesday [2] - 680:19, 681:10 turn [10] - 682:12, 684:24, 685:18, 688:8, 689:2, 704:10, 706:1, 712:23, 779:13, 800:8 turned [2] - 705:11, 706:14 turning [1] - 725:7 tuxedo [1] - 748:23 TV [3] - 769:19, 772:16, 773:4 Tweet [8] - 741:18, 742:18, 743:6, 798:14, 799:4, 799:7, 799:14, 799:17 Tweeted [3] - 740:2, 741:16, 741:21 Tweeting [1] - 743:19 Tweets [9] - 697:19, 697:22, 697:23, 697:24, 698:1, 724:16, 798:9, 799:22, 800:1 twice [2] - 696:24, 697:3 twisted [1] - 690:21 Twitter [8] - 719:19, 739:20, 740:13, 740:17, 740:19, 741:13, 746:1, 797:7 two [9] - 685:15, 689:3, 734:13, 739:24, 743:14, 767:1, 772:21, 774:13, 781:18 type [3] - 708:19, 741:3, 753:25 U U.S [3] - 675:15, 677:10, 744:22 ultimately [3] - 684:15, 692:25, 710:2 under [4] - 681:12, 720:17, 720:23, 780:20 under-oath [1] - 720:23 underscore [1] - 679:4 understood [2] - 688:19, 781:20 unfortunately [1] - 678:8 unhappy [1] - 723:14 uninformed [1] - 678:8 UNITED [2] - 675:1, 675:10 United [6] - 675:3, 676:15, 677:2, 677:8, 731:17, 768:24 unless [1] - 704:16 unlike [1] - 684:13 unrelated [1] - 789:19 untrue [1] - 795:19 unwanted [1] - 717:25 up [43] - 677:19, 680:5, 686:8, 690:13, 706:17, 708:8, 708:9, 717:9, 717:17, 717:20, 719:17, 721:12, 728:10, 729:2, 735:19, 749:17, 754:6, 758:22, 758:24, 760:12, 765:25, 766:25, 767:11, 767:15, 769:15, 777:4, 783:12, 783:14, 783:15, 784:10, 784:12, 786:10, 787:7, 790:9, 792:17, 792:19, 792:22, 793:9, 793:22, 794:1, 795:17, 801:8 upper [1] - 723:11 upping [2] - 748:2, 748:7 upset [5] - 678:10, 725:1, 756:8, 786:7 upwards [1] - 786:1 urged [1] - 720:19 user [1] - 741:13 V verbal [1] - 688:14 verbally [1] - 791:3 versions [2] - 728:11, 782:16 veteran [1] - 720:15 Veterans [1] - 681:8 victim [1] - 725:2 video [9] - 750:4, 750:5, 764:10, 764:11, 764:17, 768:14, 771:9, 794:3 views [1] - 678:16 vile [1] - 716:24 visit [1] - 703:6 voice [4] - 716:5, 716:9, 793:20, 794:10 824 voicemail [2] - 735:1, 793:15 voiceover [1] - 735:9 voluntarily [5] - 754:8, 786:8, 786:9, 787:5, 787:7 voluntary [1] - 786:6 volunteered [2] - 786:5, 787:15 volunteers [1] - 787:18 vote [1] - 695:12 vs [1] - 675:5 W wait [6] - 730:9, 736:7, 747:12, 765:10, 776:18, 798:6 waited [1] - 741:8 waiting [1] - 792:19 waives [1] - 779:10 walk [1] - 681:4 walking [3] - 708:19, 708:20, 708:24 Wallenda [1] - 708:19 Wallenda-type [1] - 708:19 wants [1] - 692:6 warning [1] - 716:6 Washington [5] - 675:6, 675:17, 676:16, 748:17, 804:14 waste [1] - 712:20 watch [7] - 697:19, 697:21, 697:23, 703:24, 704:2, 704:3, 749:22 watched [1] - 703:25 watching [5] - 750:20, 750:23, 750:25, 752:4, 783:23 ways [2] - 740:15, 780:24 WBAI [1] - 759:17 weak [1] - 726:16 wearing [2] - 679:18, 748:23 weasel [2] - 713:19, 713:23 website [1] - 715:18 Wednesday [2] - 724:5, 761:7 week [8] - 698:10, 699:6, 699:12, 738:15, 739:4, 762:9, 768:4, 777:14 West [2] - 752:3, 791:6 White [3] - 765:17, 765:22, 766:24 whoa [2] - 754:14, 762:18 whole [12] - 704:16, 706:10, 749:16, 749:19, 750:4, 759:16, 760:5, 761:17, 764:16, 764:17, 786:5, 796:11 wife [1] - 727:9 WikiLeaks [23] - 701:14, 719:18, 732:11, 741:16, 741:21, 742:18, 743:6, 743:11, 744:1, 744:16, 744:17, 745:3, 745:21, 747:6, 747:8, 747:9, 747:25, 756:4, 762:19, 763:16, 771:5, 800:18 WikiLeaks' [2] - 719:14, 719:23 WikiLeaks's [1] - 743:24 William [1] - 733:14 willing [3] - 766:9, 767:19, 770:9 win [1] - 708:6 wingers [2] - 774:19, 774:20 wink [6] - 749:3, 749:24, 750:1, 750:2, 790:7 wipe [1] - 702:5 witch [2] - 697:15, 782:7 witness [8] - 679:14, 679:21, 731:12, 742:6, 780:11, 790:23, 802:17, 802:22 WITNESS [48] - 679:17, 679:20, 679:22, 691:1, 702:9, 718:14, 718:16, 718:20, 741:2, 741:5, 741:11, 742:7, 742:9, 742:17, 742:22, 743:1, 743:7, 743:9, 743:11, 744:9, 744:11, 746:5, 746:19, 746:22, 751:9, 751:11, 751:13, 751:16, 751:22, 761:16, 761:23, 761:25, 762:5, 762:22, 765:2, 766:11, 775:2, 777:18, 777:20, 783:6, 786:21, 793:5, 793:7, 793:9, 794:16, 794:19, 794:23, 794:25 witness's [2] - 770:17, 770:22 witnesses [1] - 751:14 woman [3] - 684:10, 717:11, 763:8 Woodruff [1] - 782:10 word [4] - 694:9, 713:13, 741:20, 743:6 wording [2] - 745:25 words [3] - 706:6, 745:24, 791:18 works [1] - 765:20 world [2] - 726:17, 760:23 worth [2] - 677:23, 794:1 worthless [1] - 704:16 write [19] - 692:5, 695:4, 699:17, 700:5, 700:7, 700:15, 700:25, 701:1, 704:4, 707:20, 710:24, 713:19, 721:22, 728:4, 761:7, 777:13, 779:20, 782:1, 796:10 writes [1] - 723:7 writing [2] - 783:22, 790:15 written [2] - 715:17, 793:2 wrote [13] - 692:15, 699:24, 701:7, 703:2, 706:4, 712:1, 714:24, 716:13, 744:20, 755:24, 777:19, 796:13, 796:15 Y Yahoo [2] - 749:5, 765:23 year [21] - 683:23, 696:19, 697:5, 700:22, 705:20, 710:25, 730:21, 736:7, 752:7, 753:23, 754:2, 754:4, 754:5, 763:24, 763:25, 764:2, 766:18, 769:6, 787:16, 790:15, 792:15 yearly [2] - 748:14, 748:16 years [18] - 718:6, 718:16, 718:17, 718:21, 727:17, 733:2, 735:4, 735:7, 737:9, 737:11, 737:12, 737:14, 762:6, 771:6, 776:17, 777:6, 777:11, 784:3 yes-and-no [1] - 781:14 yes-or-no [2] - 773:3, 774:25 yesterday [5] - 679:19, 681:25, 689:17, 698:18, 754:21 York [5] - 733:17, 733:20, 733:24, 752:1, 757:9 young [1] - 716:2 yourself [15] - 677:6, 706:17, 711:16, 713:12, 713:13, 713:14, 728:10, 731:2, 742:8, 749:1, 757:3, 758:21, 760:13, 763:20, 802:3 yourselves [2] - 679:7, 802:25 YouTube [6] - 787:7, 787:9, 787:13, 793:19, 794:3, 794:10 Z ZELINSKY [155] - 677:20, 679:12, 679:23, 681:14, 681:16, 681:19, 681:21, 681:24, 682:12, 682:13, 684:24, 685:2, 685:18, 685:20, 686:5, 686:6, 686:19, 686:22, 688:8, 688:16, 688:19, 688:22, 689:2, 689:5, 691:5, 691:8, 691:14, 691:19, 691:23, 692:1, 692:22, 692:24, 693:11, 693:13, 694:13, 694:15, 695:16, 695:17, 696:1, 696:3, 697:16, 697:17, 699:14, 699:16, 700:13, 700:14, 701:9, 701:11, 701:21, 701:24, 702:8, 702:11, 702:14, 702:15, 703:14, 703:17, 703:19, 704:10, 704:12, 704:25, 705:1, 706:1, 706:3, 706:19, 706:22, 707:12, 707:14, 707:18, 707:19, 709:8, 709:10, 709:25, 710:1, 710:7, 710:8, 710:10, 710:12, 710:16, 710:18, 711:9, 711:10, 713:15, 713:18, 713:25, 714:4, 714:13, 714:16, 715:5, 715:6, 715:20, 715:23, 716:21, 718:12, 718:25, 719:1, 721:7, 721:8, 721:12, 721:15, 722:6, 722:10, 723:2, 723:4, 723:25, 724:1, 725:7, 725:12, 725:23, 725:24, 726:6, 726:7, 727:19, 727:20, 728:2, 728:3, 729:25, 730:2, 731:4, 737:3, 762:20, 764:23, 768:18, 770:11, 776:22, 779:1, 779:3, 779:6, 779:23, 780:7, 825 780:9, 781:3, 783:5, 786:18, 787:17, 789:2, 791:14, 791:25, 794:11, 797:1, 797:5, 797:11, 797:16, 797:19, 797:22, 797:25, 798:4, 798:5, 798:19, 798:24, 799:2, 800:6, 800:7, 801:8, 801:10, 802:15 Zelinsky [9] - 675:15, 677:9, 679:10, 680:2, 680:4, 688:9, 769:8, 771:20, 803:3 Zelinsky......... [1] - 676:21 Zelinsky............... [1] - 676:22