1 UNCLASS]FTED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE EXECUTIVE SESSION PERMANENT SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE, U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, WASHINGTON, D.C, INTERVIEW OF: MICHAEL COHEN Tuesday, October 24, 2017 Washington, D.C. The interview in the above matter was held in Room HVC-304, the Capitol, commencing at 10:08 a.m. Present Representatives Conaway, King, LoBiondo, Rooney, UNCLASSTFTED, COMM]TTEE SENSITTVE PROPERTY OF THE LINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES UNCI,ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE Ros-Lehtinen, Gowdy, Stefanik, Schiff, Himes, Speier, Quigley, Swalwell, Castro, and Heck. UNCI,ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE LTNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 3 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE Aooearances: FOT thE PERMANENT SELECT COMMITTEE ON TNTELLIGENCE: For MICHAEL COHEN: STEPHEN M. RYAN, ESQ. JAMES M. COMMONS, ESQ. MCDERMOTT WILL & EMERY, LLP 500 North Capitol Street, NW UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSTTIVE PROPERTY OF THE LTNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE Washington, D.C. 20001 -1 531 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE TINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 4 5 ITNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSTTIVE I Good morning. This is an unclassified transcribed interview of Michael Cohen. Thank you for speaking to us todaY. Forthe record, lrrl for the majority here at the House Permanent Select Committee on lntelligence. Others present here today will introduce themselves as they speak. Before we begin, I just wanted to give you a few instructions for the road. The questioning will be conducted by members and staff during their allotted time period. Some question may seem basic, but that is because we need to clearly establish facts and understand the situation. Please do not assume we know any facts you have previously disclosed as part of any other investigation or review. We ask that you give complete and fulsome replies to questions based on your best recollection. lf a question is unclear or you're uncertain in your response, please let us know. And if you do not know the answer to a question or cannot remember, simply say so. During the course of this interview, we will take any breaks that you desire. This interview will be transcribed. There is a reporter making a record of these proceedings so we can easily consult a written compilation of your answers. Because the reporter cannot record gestures, we ask that you answer verbally. If you forget to do this, you might be reminded to do so. You may also be asked to spell certain terms or unusual phrases. You are entitled to have counsel present for this interview, and I see that you have brought them. At this time, if counsel could make their appearances for UNCLASSIFIED, COMMTTTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE LNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE 6 the record. MR. RYAN: Thank you. Stephen Ryan of the McDermott law firm, for Mr Cohen. MR. COMMONS: Good morning. James Commons, also of the McDermott law firm, for Mr, Cohen. Thank you To ensure confidentiality, we ask that you do not discuss the interview with anyone other than your attorneys. Consistent with the committee's rules of procedure, you and your counsel, if you wish and upon request, will have a reasonable opportunity to inspect the transcript of this interview in order to determine whether your answers were correctly transcribed. The transcript will remain in the committee's custody. The committee also reserves the right to request your return for additional questions should the need arise. The process for this interview is as follows. The minority will be given 45 minutes to ask questions; then the majority will be given 45 minutes to ask questions, Immediately thereafter, we will take a S-minute break if you desire, after which time the minority will be given 15 minutes to ask questions and the majority will be given 15 minutes to ask questions. These 1S-minute rounds willcontinue untilquestioning has been exhausted. However, the time limits for these rounds will be strictly adhered to, with no extensions being granted. Time will be kept for each portion of the interview, with warnings given at the 5- and 1-minute mark, respectively, by myself. Our record today will reflect that you have been compelled to appear today UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE LNITED STATES HOUSE OF RE,PRESENTATIVES 7 UNCLASS]FIED, COMMITTEE SENS]TIVE pursuant to a subpoena issued on May 25th. I know the procedures adopted for the 'l1Sth Congress have been provided to you, along with Rule Xl of the Rules of the House of Representatives. Only you or your personal counsel may make objections during a deposition. Objections must be stated concisely in a nonargumentative manner. lf your counsel raises an objection, the interview will proceed, and testimony is taken subject to any objection. You may refuse to answer a question only to preserue a testimonial privilege. lf you and your counsel have refused to answer a question or preserve a testimonial privilege, the objection may be ruled on by the chairman after the interviewed has recessed. Finally, you are reminded that it is unlawful to deliberately provide false information to Members of Congress or staff. As this interview is under oath, Mr. Cohen, would you please raid your right hand to be sworn? MR. COHEN: Sure. I Thank you. Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to give is the whole truth and nothing but the truth? MR. COHEN: I do. Thank you The record will reflect that the witness has been duly sworn. Mr. Chairman, over to you for opening comments. MR. CONAWAY: Thank you. And I understand, Mr. Cohen, you have a statement you'd like to make? MR. COHEN: Yes, sir. UNCLASSTFTED, COMM]TTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE LTNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE 8 MR. CONAWAY: lf you could limit that to 5 minutes, and then we'll proceed with questions. MR. COHEN: I'lltry. I And, Mr. Cohen, if you could please make sure the microphone is on, the green light. Thank you. MR. COHEN: Thank you, Representatives Conaway and Schiff and the other members of the House Permanent Select Committee on lntelligence, for inviting me to appear before the committee today. I am confident that, once the investigation is completed, the committee will conclude that I had no involvement whatsoever in any collusion with Russia or anyone else to interfere in our election. I also believe it will conclude that President Trump had no involvement in these issues. Before responding to the committee's specific questions, I would like to address two critical issues: the dossier and the Trump Tower Moscow proposal, I am completely innocent of the allegations raised against me in the public square by the dossier, which are not only factually wrong but are based upon unnamed and unverified sources. I have never engaged with, been paid by, paid for, or communicated with anyone representing the Russian Federation or anyone else to hack anyone or any organization or to interfere with our U.S. election. What t seek is the committee making a public conclusion about the truth and falsity of the dossier allegations about me, My reputation was damaged in December of 2016 when BuzzFeed and others in the media published the so-called dossier prepared by a retired British spy, Christopher Steele. The dossier was riddled with totalfalsehoods and intentionally salacious but false accusations about me. My name is mentioned UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE I.INITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 9 UNCi,ASSIFTED, COMMITTEE SENS]TIVE more than a dozen times in the lie-filled dossier, and so, within moments of BuzzFeed's publication, false allegations about me were plastered all over the national and international press. The accusations are entirely and totally false. A core accusation was that I had traveled to Prague to meet with Russians regarding with interfering with the election. I have never in my life been to Prague or to anywhere in the Czech Republic. I might also add that I only have one passport, a United States passport. I have to say that to you today, that I only have one passport, because another media outlet suggested that, as a Jew, I must also have an lsraeli passport. Aside from such an allegation being incredibly offensive, it is totally wrong. So let me tell you where I was on the day the dossier said I was in Prague. I was in Los Angeles with my son, who dreams of playing baseball next year at a prestigious university. We were visiting a campus and meeting with the coaches. Media sources have confirmed these facts, and I can provide the committee with further proof. I sent a letter to the committee in August about the dossier, and I ask that it be incorporated into this record. [he information follows:] ******** coMMITTEE INSERT ******** UNCI,ASSTFTED, COMMITTEE SENSTTIVE PROPERTY OF THE LINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE 10 MR. COHEN: Now I turn to the Moscow proposal. ln 2015, I received a proposal to .build a world-class Trump-branded property in Moscow, Russia. lt is important to note that this was always going to be a licensed transaction. The Trump Organization would lend its name and management skills, but it was not going to borrow any money and it would not have any resulting debt for the purchase of the land and the building of the facility. The Trump Organization routinely received numerous similar proposals to build licensed properties throughout the world. I ultimately decided that The Trump Organization would reject the Trump Tower Moscow proposal, and no project went forward. I was involved in the proposal as part of my routine work at The Trump Organization. After some due diligence on the preliminary proposal, The Trump Organization entered into a nonbinding letter of intent with a Moscow-based developer. The LOlwas a very preliminary nonbinding agreement and simply confirmed that both sides wanted to explore the proposal further. lt was not a term sheet. After the LOI was executed, I expected the developer to accomplish three core tasks. First, I expected the developer to identify the appropriate site for the Trump Tower Moscow project and demonstrate that they owned or controlled the site. Second, I expected the developer to obtain the relevant permits and approvals for the project. And, third, I expected the developer to secure the financing needed to acquire the site and build this five-star property. By the end the January 2016, I had determined that the developer had not made satisfactory progress on the three core tasks, and I decided to abandon the UNCI,ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE LTNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 11. UNCI,ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE proposal. My decision to end the proposal's consideration had nothing to do with Mr. Trump's campaign for the Presidency, but it occurred before the Presidential caucus or primary was held. At the point I terminated consideration, Mr. Trump was 1 of 16 Republican candidates forthe Presidency. ln the end, this was solely a real estate proposal and nothing more. I was doing my job. On several occasions during the Moscow building proposal period and afterwards, I received offers to travel to Russia and others to seek Mr. Trump's travel to Russia. I never went, and I never told Mr, Tiump about requests for him to go to Russia. And he did not travel there during this period of time. I would ask that the two-page statement about the Moscow proposal that sent to the committee in August and which is attached to my testimony be incorporated into this record. [The information follows:] ******** coMMITTEE INSERT ******** UNCIJ\SSIFTED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE TINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES I L2 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSTTTVE MR. COHEN: I am very proud to have served Donald Trump for allof these years, and I wiltcontinue to support him. lf we really are concerned about a Russian attempt to divide our country and discredit our political system, then the best thing we can do is put aside our infighting, stop presuming guilt ratherthan innocence of American citizens, and address this national security threat as a united people. Othenruise, the priorities of the American people will continue to be neglected, and the Russians will use our distraction to continue to harm us from the shadows while we harm each other in front of camera lights. I look fonruard to answering all of your questions, and thank you for having me today. MR. CONAWAY: Thank you, sir. Mr. Castro? MR. CASTRO: All right. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Cohen, for joining us today. My name is Joaquin Castro. And I'm going to start off asking the questions, and Eric Swalwell will take over, and the other members on the Democratic side, once we go back and forth. Can you please state your full name for the record? MR. COHEN: Michael Dean Cohen. MR. CASTRO: And your date of birth? MR. COHEN MR. CASTRO: Place of birth? MR. COHEN: MR. CASTRO: And prior to today, aside from your counsel, had you met I]NCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENS]TIVE PROPERTY OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRE,SENTATIVES 13 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE anybody else in this room? MR. COHEN: Yes. MR. CASTRO: Which persons have you met with? MR. COHEN: Congressman King? MR. CASTRO: Okay. Anyone else? MR. COHEN: Yes. Congressman Stefanik. MR. CASTRO: Any prior conversations with the persons that you've met about this interview - MR. CONAWAY: Excuse me. Just for the record, I was seated at a table with Mr. Cohen at the inauguration ball in Union Square and fvlR. - COHEN: Oh, that's right. MR. CONAWAY: So that's -- I don't know how I get seated there, I don't know how he got seated there, but that was the extent of -MR. COHEN: You were lucky, Congressman. MR. CONAWAY: So I remember him, and he doesn't remember me. MR. CASTRO: Sure. Thank you, Chairman, for that. Any conversations with any of those persons about this investigation or your upcoming testimony? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. CASTRO: Okay. What is your occupation? MR, COHEN: I'm an attorney. MR. CASTRO: Okay. When were you licensed? MR. COHEN: 1992. MR. CASTRO: Where are you licensed? Which States? UNCI,ASSIFIED, COMMTTTEE SENSTTTVE PROPERTY OF THE LINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES T]NCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE L4 MR. COHEN: New York. MR. CASTRO: Any other States? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. CASTRO: Has your license ever been suspended? Your license ever lapsed? MR. RYAN: So -MR. CASTRO: Ever been disbarred? Anything like that? MR. RYAN: -- Congressman, it's not pertinent. I'm going allow you to ask the question, but we're here about the Russia investigation, not the state of his license. But you may answer. MR. CASTRO: Sure. And let me explain real-MR. RYAN: lt's not pertinent. MR. CASTRO: Well, ldisagree. MR. RYAN: Okay. MR. CASTRO: But let me explain real quick. We expect that sometimes you will probably answer with a privilege, for example, that you're going to exert a privilege. That privilege may be affected by whether your license was in effect. That's why I asked the question. MR. COHEN: The answer is no. MR. CASTRO: Okay. Thank you. MR. COHEN: And I'm fulty up to date with my CLE credits. MR. CASTRO: Verygood. Are you married? MR. COHEN: I am. UNCI,ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE LINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 15 UNCLASSIFIED, COMM]TTEE SENSITIVE tMR. CASTRO: And your wife's name? MR. COHEN: Laura, L-a-u-r-a. MR. CASTRO: What's her full name? MR. COHEN: Laura Cohen. MR. CASTRO: Okay. Any middle name? MR, COHEN: No. MR. CASTRO: And what's her occupation? MR. COHEN: Housewife. MR. CASTRO: Okay. I want to ask you a few questions. For the next few questions, the time period will be January 2015 untilthe present time. So, from January 2015 to the present time, how many emailaccounts have you used for your personal use or your business use in your own name? MR. COHEN: I only use the Trump Org email account. MR. CASTRO: And what is that one? MR. COHEN: lt was. lt no longer exists. MR. CASTRO: Okay. MR. COHEN: lt was Now, I also have ,n I don't even I account that I haven't used for a long, long time recallthe password. MR. CASTRO: What was the name of that one, or do you remember? MR. COHEN: . MR. CASTRO: Okay. Do you know when you stopped using it, more or less? MR. COHEN: I don't recall. lt was a long time ago UNCLASSTFTED, COMMITTEE SENSITTVE PROPERTY OF THE LI-NITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 16 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE MR. CASTRO: You said a few years ago. Okay. Do you have a -- MR. COHEN: I apologize. There was also a campaign email that was set up for me. MR. CASTRO: What is the campaign email? MR. COHEN: I don't -- I don't recall. MR. CASTRO: Do you recall using it at all? MR. COHEN: I don't recall. MR. CASTRO: Okay. So that's three emails. MR. COHEN: Correct? MR. CASTRO: Okay. Have you ever had a Proton email account? MR. COHEN: No, sir. I don't know what that is. MR. CASTRO: Okay. From Janu ary 2015 to the present, which social media platforms have you had accounts with and been active on? For example, Facebook, lnstagram -- MR. COHEN; Facebook. MR. CASTRO: Okay. MR. COHEN: lnstagram. Twitter. MR.. CASTRO: On any of these accounts, have you received or sent messages? On Facebook, for example, sometimes somebody will send you a direct message. Same thing with Twitter. MR. COHEN: On a rare occasion. I really don't use those social media platforms for communication. MR. CASTRO: So you've used it for messaging sometimes, but your position is that you've used it rarely. UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 17 UNCi,ASSIFTED, COMMTTTEE SENSTTIVE MR. COHEN: Correct. MR. CASTRO: Okay. And on which accounts? Do you recall? MR. COHEN: lnstagram, Twitter, and Facebook. MR. CASTRO: Okay. Have you ever used Reddit? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. CASTRO: 4Chan? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. CASTRO: Okay. And the committee is also in receipt of some document production from you, and all of it appears to be from your -- or most of it appears to be from your Trump Organization email, much of it, as opposed to the other accounts. MR. COHEN: But those documents were turned over to this committee by my counsel. I don't have access and privilege to those. Those belong to The Trump Organization. MR. CASTRO: Okay. So just for the sake of being thorough, because you've described other accounts where you also sent messages, is it your position that everything that was responsive to our request is contained in the production, in terms of every written email, every written communication, including the platforms that you just mentioned in your answer? MR. COHEN: I believe so, yes. MR. CASTRO: Okay. Do you use Signal. MR. COHEN: Yes. MR. CASTRO: Do you message through Signal? MR. COHEN: Yes. Actually, I apologize. January 2015 to -- UNCLASSIFTED, COMMITTEE SENSITTVE PROPERTY OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 18 IINCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE MR. CASTRO: To the present day. MR. COHEN: To the present day? Then the answer is yes. MR. CASTRO: Okay. What about text messaging on your cell phone? MR. COHEN: I use text message. MR. CASTRO: Okay. Also, before I forget, counsel, did y'allturn over a privilege log? You discussed in one of the letters that you would provide a privilege log. MR. RYAN: We have not turned over a privilege log as reason for that is the privilege ultimately belongs to Trump Mr. Cohen doesn't have control over that. yet. Org. And the ln other words, And I believe that Trump Org is preparing that and eventually will produce it to the committee. MR. CASTRO: lt just makes our job tougher today, because that would've been helpful to see ahead of time, what you may assert a privilege - MR. RYAN: To the extent that I can, if there are any -- there are very few documents that have been withheld based on privilege by the Trump Org at this point. MR. CASTRO: Okay. MR. RYAN: lf I recognize a situation where there is a privileged document, I will do my best to help. He would not be able to be do that. I alone would know that information. So I'll -MR. CASTRO: Okay. We'll take it ad hoc. MR. RYAN: Yeah, ad hoc. But l'lltry and help you on that. MR. CASTRO: Sure. MR. RYAN: But, candidly, there are so few that that's the reason I think UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE LINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES I 19 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMTTTEE SENSITIVE may be able to remember most of them. But I can't guarantee I will. But if I know that there's a privileged document, I'll indicate that. MR. CASTRO: Okay. MR. RYAN: And as long as we're on privilege, you know, I'm directing him now not to disclose privileged information but to identify where a privilege is being' asserted, So he's under instruction not to disclose the privileged information, but he can disclose - MR. CASTRO: Because -- MR. RYAN: -- the person whom that privilege is being exercised. MR. CASTRO: Because we haven't received a privilege log, counsel, if you could also assert what type of privilege you're asserting when that comes up, if it comes up. MR. RYAN: Sure. MR. CASTRO: Thankyou. MR. RYAN: The two privileges that will come up would be attorney-client privilege and attorney work product. MR. CASTRO: Okay. Do you have a WhatsApp account, or have you used WhatsApp? MR. COHEN: I do. MR. CASTRO: Okay, Now, I know that, you know, this is -- you're an attorney also, so I'm sure you've been in this situation, but we've gone through a few of these different social media ones, and it seems like each one that I ask, you've used it. So are there any other social media platforms that you've used for messaging MR. COHEN: - Right. I apologize, because I wasn't aware WhatsApp is a TINCLASSIFTED, COMMITTEE SENSTTIVE PROPERTY OF THE LINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES UNCI,ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE 20 social media platform. lt's -MR. CASTRO: A messaging platform. I'm sorry. MR. COHEN: Okay. I use Dust-- would be the only other one' MR. CASTRO: How do you spellthat? MR. COHEN: D-u-s-t. MR. CASTRO: Okay. Just so that we don't have to keep asking each one, right, anything else that - MR. COHEN: I believe that's it. MR. CASTRO: Okay. Thanks. So we're in receipt of text messages from another witness, Felix Sater, communicating with you. And so we wanted to ask you if you could go back and search your socialmedia platforms for relevant communications between you and he. Any of the other ones that you m6ntioned besides what's already been produced. MR. RYAN: We'll absolutely do that, and we'll check for you, and we'll produce anything that we find. MR. CASTRO: Thank You, counsel. All right. When did you first purchase property in Trump Tower or any Trump property? MR. COHEN: 1990 or '91. MR. CASTRO: This was before you were licensed to practice law, while were you still in law school? MR. COHEN: No, I apologize. Hold on. I'm sorry. 2001, not 1991. 2001. My apologies. MR. CASTRO: And what was your occupation at the time? UNCI.ASSIFTED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 21_ UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE MR. COHEN: An attorneY. MR. CASTRO: And the source of your income to this property was from your work as an attorneY? MR. RYAN: No. This is not pertinent, and it is a fishing expedition. As to how he bought his apartment? I honestly do not believe that's pertinent. I'd ask for the chair to rule that it's not pertinent about what we're doing here. He admitted he bought a Trump apartment. I don't think the amount or the source of his funds of something in 2001, which is 16 years ago, is pertinent to the Russia investigation. MR. CASTRO: Counsel, the first thing is that they're on record, emails with folks with deep ties to Russia. Putting aside your client's own involvement, there have been questions about leverage and influence that has been used because of financial arrangements among those persons. And so this question is aimed to get at any influence or leverage that these persons might have over somebody who is obviously very close and important to Mr. TrumpMR. RYAN: Let me make a suggestion, Congressman. Why don't you ask the question whether he's ever received any money from Russia that related to the purchase of his apartment, and then it would be pertinent. lt's not pertinent to just fish in these areas. But if you want to ask about Russia with regard to them, I think it's perfectly okay. MR. CASTRO: Well, I was going to get there, but I need to ask what was the source of your income. That's a basic question -MR. RYAN: Look, you're -MR. CASTRO: * that any request for production or interrogatory would contain, counsel. You've done this for a long time. You know that's a basic UNCLASSIFTED, COMMITTEE SENSITTVE PROPERTY OF THE I.INITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 22 UNCI,ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE question. MR. RYAN: And in the United States district court, a judge would not permit any question like this that is more than 10 years into the past unless it was relevant, which is the equivalent of pertinency. So -MR. CASTRO: Okay. MR. RYAN: - this is not pertinent. We can go a long time on this. MR. SCHIFF: But, counsel, are you asserting a privilege? Because if you're not asserting a privilege, the witness should answer the question - MR. CASTRO: Right. MR. SCHIFF: -- because you're under subpoena. MR. RYAN: lt's not pertinent, sir. MR. SCHIFF: lt doesn't matter whether you - MR. RYAN: And I'm asking for a ruling of the chair - MR. SCHIFF: lt does not matter whether you believe it's pertinent, counsel. The only question witness is whether you're asserting a privilege. The - MR. RYAN: No. You're -- MR. SCHIFF: - is here under a subpoena. He's been asked a question. MR. RYAN: With all due respect, Mr. Schiff, you're wrong about the law. MR. SCHIFF: With all due respect, sir -MR. RYAN: Well, let me make my objection, and then the chair will rule. Here's the objection. lf I object based on pertinency, I have the right to know the pertinency of it, which Mr. Castro has shared. I shared back the way to make it pertinent, to move the thing along. And I'm asking for a rule of the chair that we're not going to be doing things 16 years ago, asking him about his income UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE L'NITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 23 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE and where it came, unless it's about Russia. And l'm asking for the ruling of the chair. MR. CONAWAY: So, ask the question that gets to the point of what it is. lf you've got a financialtransaction that's a little closerto the date -MR. CASTRO: Right. MR. CONAWAY: But that one is a little dated. MR. CASTRO: And the reason that I asked about that is because that's the first interaction with The Trump Organization, the first purchase of a property. I can't control that. MR. CONAWAY: Well, just ask him if he had any Russian financing or anything, any Ukrainian financing, something that's a little closer to the mark. MR. CASTRO: Okay. We'll get to it so we get to a closer period here. It's been reported that yourself and your family members have owned 10 or 11 properties within the Trump realm of properties. ls that correct? Or how many properties have you and your family owned within the Trump properties? MR. COHEN: I own one, which I purchased in 2001. MR. CASTRO: Okay. MR. COHEN: That was 15 years prior to my employment at The Trump Organization. MR. CASTRO: Sir, I thought you started working in MR. COHEN: l'm sorry, 2006, 5 - years. Actually -- I'm so sorry. 2001 is not -- I've owned the apartment for, what, 13 years? I apologize. I'llget you the exact date that I purchased it on. But I've owned it for over 10 years. MR. CASTRO: Okay, UNCLASSTFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITTVE PROPERTY OF TI]E LTNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE MR. COHEN: Maybe it was -- l'm sony, I actually forget. But I own one apartment, and my parents own one apartment. MR. CASTRO: Okay. So you own one? MR. COHEN: Yes, MR. CASTRO: And your Parents own one? MR. COHEN: Correct. MR. CASTRO: Does Your wife own one? MR. COHEN: No. MR. CASTRO: Does your brother own one? MR. COHEN: No. MR. CASTRO: Your sister-in-law? MR. COHEN: No. MR. CASTRO: Anyone else in your family? MR. RYAN: This is not pertinent. And, you know, we'll be here a long time if this is going to go on into a dive into his life, as opposed to what's in the committee's ju risd iction. MR. CASTRO: Counsel, this is in the committee's jurisdiction. I don't know what you expected today, but this is what the other witnesses have also been subjected to, MR. CONAWAY: Go ahead. Just go ahead, Joaquin. MR. CASTRO: All right. MR. CONAWAY: Get it done. MR. CASTRO: Okay. So why did you choose to purchase the Trump property? Did Mr. Sater encourage you to purchase it? UNCI,ASSIFfED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE LINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 24 25 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE IvlR. COHEN: No. MR. CASTRO: Okay. Do you live in that unit now that you still- MR. COHEN: No. MR. CASTRO: Okay. How is it used? MR. COHEN: lt was rented -- MR. CASTRO: Okay. MR. COHEN: -- as an investment property. MR. CASTRO: Before purchasing, did you ever meet Donald Trump or any of his family members? MR. COHEN: No. MR. CASTRO: All right. How long have you known Donald Trump? MR. COHEN: Since 2005. MR. CASTRO: Okay. When was the first time that you had contact with him, and do you remember the circumstances? MR. COHEN: Yeah. I was invited to a Dennis Vacco fundraiser, and it was in his apartment. MR. CASTRO: And so how and when did you come to work for The Trump Organization? MR. COHEN: There was an issue in approximately 2006 at frump World Tower. I know several people that live in the building, and they thought I could be of signiflcant help in terms of dealing with the board that had made certain allegations about The Trump Organization and Mr. Trump that would have, in my opinion, damaged the building's reputation and value. MR. CASTRO: Okay. And so what was the nature of the work that you started doing for Mr. Trump and the organization? UNCLASSIFIED, COMMTTTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE LTNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 26 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE MR. COHEN: Legalwork. MR. CASTRO: Okay. What type of legalwork? MR. COHEN: At the time, I was a partner over at Phillips Nizer. MR. CASTRO: But, I mean, litigation? Realestate? Family law? MR. COHEN: I can't discuss the nature of the work. MR. CASTRO: There's no privilege in that. MR. RYAN: You can give the categories. MR. COHEN: Business, corporate. MR. CASTRO: Any other categories? Anything else? Did any divorces, any premarital arrangements, anything? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. RYAN: I'm going to instruct, if it's about the President and his family, that you should assume that he's done legalwork for the family that he's not going to discuss here unless it's pertinent to Russia. And I'm giving him an instruction now -MR. COHEN: And I understand that. I understand that, counsel' MR. RYAN: -- not to the disclose the nature of his work for the President or his family that is unrelated. MR. CASTRO: lgot it, counsel. But, again, the reason that I ask about the categories is because it will affect what privileges apply and what doesn't. MR. RYAN: Sure. MR. CASTRO: All right. So ahy other categories of work? Just the categories. MR. RYAN: Mr. Castro, if we can just clarify. I think he was answering the question for Trump Org, and I wanted to make sure that we didn't -- UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE LTNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 27 UNCLASS]FIED, COMMTTTEE SENSITTVE MR. CASTRO: Okay. Sure. MR. RYAN: And I think he was accurately answering. But you could ask him about litigation. I don't know if there was litigation that you were involved with. MR. CASTRO: Were you involved in litigation? MR. COHEN: Yes. MR. CASTRO: Okay. Did you also do work for The Trump Foundation? MR. COHEN: No. MR. CASTRO: ln the production that you provided, there is an agreement between a foundation in the Ukraine having to do with a speech that Mr. Trump gave over a video link, and it seems as though you arranged the -- you finalized the agreement with the grantor, Do you recall that? MR. COHEN: I do. MR. CASTRO: lt seems that that work was for the foundation, not for the organization. tMR. COHEN: No, sir. Doug Schoen, who's a frequent guest on cable television, had been putting together a symposium and requested Mr. Trump to go to the Ukraine in order to -MR. CASTRO: Okay. lt's okay. ljust want to know, was it - so it wasn't for the foundation. MR. COHEN: lt was not. MR. CASTRO: Okay. We'llget to the other part later. MR. RYAN: The money went there, but the client wasn't the foundation. MR, CASfRO: Well, that's got to be his answer, not yours. MR. RYAN: But if we ask the question correctly, we'll get the right answer, UNCI,ASSIFfED, COMMTTTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE LINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ,a UNCI,ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE tn a sense. MR. CASTRO: All right. We'll get to that. So when did you meet Donald Trump, Jr.? MR. COHEN: ln 2004. MR. CASTRO: All right. And how often did you work together over the years on business matters? MR. COHEN: With Donald TrumP, Jr.? MR. CASTRO: Yes. MR. COHEN: Very rarely. Donald Trump, Jr., was constructing my apartment at Trump Park Avenue. MR. CASTRO: MR. COHEN: Okay. ldo Do you consider him a friend? now. MR. CASTRO: Do you socialize with him? MR. COHEN: Yes. MR. CASTRO: Okay. When did you first meet Eric Trump? MR. COHEN: ln 2006. MR. CASTRO: Okay. Do you work with Eric Trump on business matters? MR. COHEN: lworked with the entire family, yes. MR. CASTRO: Okay. And would you consider him a friend who you socialize with? MR. COHEN: I consider Eric Trump to be a friend as well. MR. CASTRO: Okay. Did you attend his wedding? MR. COHEN: No. MR. CASTRO: Okay. UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENS]TIVE PROPERTY OF THE LINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 29 UNCLASS]FIED, COMMITTEE SENS]TTVE When did you first meet lvanka Trump? MR. COHEN: 2006. MR. CASTRO: And how about Jared Kushner? MR. COHEN: When lvanka and Jared were dating. MR. CASTRO: All right. When, about, was that? Do you recall? MR. COHEN: I apologize. ldon't. MR. CASTRO: Okay. All right. l'm going to ask you some questions about Felix Sater. According to press reports, you and Felix Sater know each other from when you were both teenagers in Long lsland. ls that accurate? MR. COHEN: I don't believe Felix Sater is from Long lsland. MR. CASTRO: Okay. How about New York? Did you know each other from growing up in New York? MR. COHEN: I had met Felix, yes. MR. CASTRO: Where do you think Felix Sater is from? MR. COHEN: At the time, I thought he was from Brooklyn. MR. CASTRO: Okay. Did you remain in contact when each of you went to college? MR. COHEN: No. MR, CASTRO: During that period, how often did y'all communicate? MR, COHEN: Zero. MR. CASTRO: So, after you met him growing up, you were out of contact for how long? MR. COHEN: Almost two decades. MR. CASTRO: Okay. And what brought you back into contact? UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITTVE PROPERTY OF THE I.INITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 30 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE MR. COHEN: A mutualfriend's Party. MR. CASTRO: Which friend? Do you recall? MR. COHEN: His name is Alex. MR. CASTRO: Do You know his last name? MR. COHEN: Yes. fvlR. CASTRO: What is it? MR. COHEN: Weiss. MR. CASTRO: Weiss. What does he do? MR. COHEN: He owns a business in the laundry business. MR. CASTRO: ln New York? MR. COHEN: Yes. MR. CASTRO: Okay. And how often since you reconnected with Mr. Sater would you two communicate? MR. COHEN: From -- I'm sorry, sir. From what period to what period? MR. CASTRO: Well, when you reconnected with him at Mr. weiss'party, how often would you communicate? MR. COHEN: Did not. MR. CASTRO: You didn't talk to him after that? IIIR. COHEN: No. MR. CASTRO: Okay. And what year was this party that you recommunicated? MR. COHEN: I don't recall. MR. CASTRO: ln the 1990s? The 2000s? MR. COHEN: 2000s. MR. CASTRO: All right. And then after that, when did you reconnect UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE LINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES with 3L UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITTVE him again? MR. COHEN: 2005, give or take. MR. CASTRO: So, since 2005, how often do you communicate with Mr. Sater? MR. COHEN: On occasion. MR. CASTRO: By telephone? By email? MR. COHEN: By telephone, by email, in person. MR. CASTRO: When was the last time you spoke to Mr. Sater? MR. COHEN: Approximately 3 months ago. MR. CASTRO: Okay. And did you ever travel with Felix Sater to Russia or elsewhere in Eastern Europe? MR. COHEN: No. MR. CASTRO: Okay. So I'm going to go through a little background and then ask you some questions based on that. MR. COHEN: Yes, sir. MR. CASTRO: Prior to joining The Trump Organization, President Trump had made repeated efforts to build or invest in hotels and luxury hotel housing in Moscow. And it appears that he tried, as well, during your tenure with The Trump Organization. As far back as July 1987, President Trump traveled to Moscow with wife, lvana, at the time. They reportedly stayed in the Lenin Suite at the National Hotel and toured potential construction sites. Were you aware of Mr. Trump's efforts to build Trump properties in Moscow as far back as 1987? MR. COHEN: Yes. UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSTTTVE PROPERTY OF THE LINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 32 UNCI,ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE MR. CASTRO: This appears to be President Trump's first attempt to build property in Moscow. Are you aware of any prior efforts by Mr. Trump to build in Moscow before 1987? MR. COHEN: No. MR. CASTRO: Okay. ln December 1988, President Trump is quoted as saying that the Moscow hotel project fizzled because, quote, "in the Soviet Union, you don't own anything. It's hard to conjure up spending hundreds of million of dollars on something and not own it," unquote. ln November of 1996, President Trump announced plans to invest $250 million in Russia and to put his name on two luxury residential buildings, Trump lnternational and Trump Tower, in Moscow. Neither building was constructed, Do you have any sense why this early effort failed? MR. COHEN: I do not. MR. CASTRO: ln 2005, prior to your joining The Trump Organization, Mr. Trump signed a dealwith Bayrock Group to build Trump Tower in Moscow. According to The New York Times, Felix Sater, a partner in Bayrock Group, was involved in the deal and pursued a site in Moscow that had been an old pencil factory along the Moscow River. Letters of intent had been signed, and square footage was being analyzed. Do you recall anything about this deal? MR. COHEN: No. MR. CASTRO: Did you learn about it prior to joining The Trump Organization? MR. COHEN: Only what I had heard -- no, I'm sorry. Prior UNCi,ASSIFIED, COMM]TTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE LINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE,S to? No, sir. 33 UNCI,ASSIFfED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE MR. CASTRO: How about afterwards? MR. COHEN: After, yes. MR. CASTRO: Okay. From who? Was it Mr. Trump? Was it news reports? MR. COHEN: News reports. MR. CASTRO: Did you speak to Mr, Sater about it? MR. COHEN: And Mr. Sater. MR. CASTRO: You had a conversation with him about that? MR. COHEN: He had mentioned it, yes. MR. CASTRO: And do you recallwhat he told you about it? MR. COHEN: That he had previously tried to construct and bring a project to The Trump Organization in Moscow. MR. CASTRO: Did he say why it failed? MR. COHEN: No. MR. CASTRO: Okay. ln 2007, the same year you joined The Trump Organization, Mr. Trump launched the Trump SoHo development project with Bayrock Group and another New York real estate flrm called the Sapir Organization. Are you familiar with that transaction? MR. COHEN: I'm familiar with it, yes. MR. CASTRO: Okay. So you.recallthe project. MR. COHEN: I recallthe project. MR. CASTRO: What was your role in the project? MR. COHEN: I had no role. MR. CASTRO: You didn't give legal counsel, advice, guidance? UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITTVE PROPERTY OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TINCI,ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE 34 MR. COHEN: lt was, I believe, constructed before I started employment at The Trump Organization. MR. CASTRO: You joined in what year now? MR. COHEN: 2007. MR. CASTRO: This project was in 2007. MR. COHEN: I believe it was already: MR. CASTRO: Okay. MR. COHEN: - constructed. MR. CASTRO: The Sapir Organization was founded by Georgia native Tamir Sapir. Felix Sater is one of Mr. Sapir's business partners. Did Mr. Sater introduce you to Mr. Sapir? MR. COHEN: No. MR. CASTRO: So you never met Mr. Sappier back then? MR. RYAN: That's not his testimony. You asked him a specific question about Mr. Sater. You didn't ask him if he'd ever met the man. MR. CASTRO: Okay. Have you met Tamir Sapir? MR. COHEN: Yes. MR. CASTRO: When did you meet him? MR. COHEN: 1994, '95, in that area. MR. CASTRO: And have you ever done business with him? MR. COHEN: No. MR. CASTRO: Ever been solicited for business? MR. COHEN: No. MR. CASTRO: Does Bayrock Group have an office in Trump Tower? UNCI,ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE TINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 35 UNCI,ASS]FIED, COMM]TTEE SENSITIVE MR. COHEN: I don't have the answer to that. MR. CASTRO: So you're not aware whether they * MR. COHEN: I'm not aware. MR. CASTRO: Also in 2007, President Trump testified during a deposition. Mr. Trump spoke highly of real estate prospects in Russia, saying, quote, "We will be in Moscow at some point." Mr. Trump acknowledged meeting with Russian investors at Trump Tower to explore a Moscow development deal and said his son Don, Jr., was working to get a separate deal there off the ground. On June 4th, 2008, at a Moscow real estate summit, President Trump's son Donald Trump, Jr., announced that The Trump Organization had plans for construction of luxury housing and hotels in three Russian cities - Moscow, Saint Petersburg, and Sochi -- and reportedly told the audience that he'd been to Russia six times in the last year and a half. The Trump Organization worked with Paul Fuchs of the Moss City Group to negotiate a developer's license to use the Trump brand. Did you attend the realestate summit? MR. RYAN: So I have an objection to the way you're asking these questions. You're asking a very long and complex statement of fact, some of which he may know, none of which he may know, or all of which he may know, and then you're posing a question at end. You should not interpret that he is -- MR. SWALWELL: Counsel, why don't you stop telling him how to ask the questions? He can answer it or not answer it, but you're not-- MR. RYAN: Well, let me just say something. A Federaljudge would not permit this UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSTTIVE PROPERTY OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 36 UNCI,ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE MlR. SWALWELL: This isn't Federalcourt. MR. RYAN: -- would not permit this in any way. MR. SWALWELL: Counsel, let him answer the questions. MR. RYAN: You've got him under oath. And this has to be conducted in a way where you don't ask a 3-minute question and then ask him to comment on it. MR. SCHIFF: Counsel, you can invoke the privilege on behalf of your client or not. lf the chairman wants to interject, he here a lot longer will. But we're going to be - MR. RYAN: Well, he has to know that I'm objecting. MR. SCHIFF: -- if you just keep interrupting. These questions are appropriate and relevant. And if you're not asserting privilege, your witness is under subpoena, and he's just -MR. RYAN: Mr. Schiff, you have a wrong view of the law. MR. SCHIFF: No. MR. RYAN: My role here -- MR. SCHIFF: You have a misunderstanding of the committee, sir. MR. CONAWAY: Gentlemen, stop. StoP MR. RYAN: -- is to raise objections when they're appropriate. MR. CONAWAY: Stop. Joaquin - MR. CASTRO: Let me -- can I explain, Chairman? MR. CONAWAY: Yeah. lf you want to set the predicate, set it - MR. CASTRO: Right. MR. CONAWAY: -- stop, ask your question. Don't kind of roll it together UNCI,ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE I.INITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 37 UNCLASSTFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITTVE MR. CASTRO: Okay. Well, I'm trying to provide context because some of these are intricate and complex. MR. CONAWAY: Allthis context goes in his 45 minutes, so just -MR. CASTRO: All right. MR. RYAN: I have no objection to the context. MR. CASTRO: Okay. MR. RYAN: I just have -- I need a separation of the question so that he's not impliedly ignoring some aspect of it with which he disagrees. That's all l'm asking, sir. Thank you. MR. CASTRO: So did you attend the realestate summit that I mentioned in 2008? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. CASTRO: All right. Do you know who attended from The Trump Organization? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. CASTRO: Do you know Paul Fuchs? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. CASTRO: Have you ever met Paul Fuchs? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. CASTRO: Were you involved in negotiating the license for use of the Trump brand? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. RYAN: l'm sorry, sir. ls that related to this particular thing? Because he has been involved globally. Which are you asking? I.INCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE TINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES UNCI,ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE 38 MR. CASTRO: For this particular project. MR. RYAN: Thank you. MR. CASTRO: For this particular project, were you involved in 2008? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. CASTRO: Okay. Were you involved in The Trump Organization's efforts between 2006 and 2008 to obtain trademarks in Russia? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. CASTRO: You did no legalwork for that purpose? MR. COHEN: Not for that purpose. MR. CASTRO: Did you do any legalwork for The Trump Organization related to Russia? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. CASTRO: At that time, or ever? MR. COHEN: At that time. MR. CASTRO: Okay. Do you recallwhat names Mr. Trump was trying to have trademarked in Russia? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. CASTRO: All right. ln 2008, Trump sold a property in Palm Beach for $95 million to the Russian oligarch and billionaire MR. COHEN: Rybolovlev. MR. CASTRO: Yes. Better pronunciation than mine. Trump had purchased the home at a bankruptcy auction less than 4 years UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE I.INITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTA'TIVES UNCLASSIFTED. COMMTTTEE SENSITIVE 39 earlier for $41.4 million. Were you involved in this transaction? MR. RYAN: l'm sorry, that would be the purchase out of bankruptcy. lf you could just separate the question from your statement. MR. CASTRO: Were you in any way involved in any aspect of this transaction? MR. RYAN: Which transaction, sir? The purchase or the sale? MR. CASTRO: Both. Either one. MR. RYAN: Okay. Thank you. MR. COHEN: Yes. MR. CASTRO: Okay. Which one? MR. COHEN: The sale. MR. CASTRO: What was your role in that transaction? MR. RYAN: Do not disclose privileged information, but if you can explain, your role in a categorical way, I'm sure that will be satisfactory. MR. COHEN: I looked over documents pertaining to the sale which was brought to Mr. Trump by Sotheby's lnternational Realty, who was the broker on the site. MR. CASTRO: Did you have contact at the time with Dmitry Rybolovlev? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR, CASTRO: Have you ever met that gentleman? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. CASTRO: Do you know whether Mr. Trump ever met Rybolovlev? MR. COHEN: At what point in time? MR. CASTRO: Well, anytime at allthat you know of? MR. COHEN: I'm not aware that he has ever met him. UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 40 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE MR. CASTRO: Okay. Have you ever had a conversation with Mr. Trump about this gentleman -- that doesn't interfere with a legal privilege? MR. RYAN: lf we could just separate the transaction and - MR. CASTRO: Sure. MR. RYAN: -- any other conversation other than - MR. CASTRO: Right, that doesn't interfere -- another conversation besides your Work on this legal work on this transaction. MR. COHEN: I'm sorry, sir. Can you ask the question one more time? MR. CASTRO: Have you had a conversation with Mr. Trump about Dmitry Rybolovlev about this transaction or anything else? MR. COHEN: Yes. MR. CASTRO: What was the nature of your conversation? MR. COHEN: About the price, the property. MR. RYAN: These are legal issues. Are you in the privilege issue or are You 'MR. COHEN: I'm outside of the privilege. MR. RYAN: Okay. You can continue. MR. CASTRO: Okay. Well, and this transaction, was this a cash purchase? MR. COHEN: I don't know the answerto that. MR. CASTRO: I thought that you had worked on - MR. COHEN: The transaction was conducted through Sotheby's. I did not do the closing MR, CASTRO: Okay. So you're not aware of how it was purchased -- cash or cashier's check or anything? UNCI,ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE LINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 4L UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE MR. COHEN: I have no knowledge. MR. CASTRO: Okay. It seems that Mr. Rybolovlev paid quite a premium for this propefi. Was it your sense that he believed this was a good investment? MR. COHEN: Yes. MR. CASTRO: And why do you think he paid such a premium for the property? MR. COHEN: lt was along the ocean, with a tremendous frontage which I think is greater than most sites in the West Palm Beach area. And there's actually an interesting joke. What is the difference between Palm Beach and Beverly Hills? MR. CASTRO: Well, we'll get to that another time. MR. COHEN: Nobody in Palm Beach has a mortgage. MR. CASTRO: But in the 4 years after which Mr. President, or Mr. Trump at the time, had purchased it for $41.4 million, he now sells it for $95 million, ls that correct? MR. COHEN: I believe so. MR. RYAN: Do you know the amounts? MR. COHEN: I do not know the exact amounts, but from reports in the news -- MR. CASTRO: Okay. MR. COHEN: -- I believe so. MR. CASTRO: Did you attend the Miss Universe Pageant in Moscow on November 9th, 2013? MR. COHEN: No, sir. UNCLASSIFTED, COMMTTTEE SENSIT]VE PROPERTY OF THE I.INITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 42 UNCI,ASSTFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE MR. CASTRO: Did you have any involvement in the planning of that? MR. COHEN: Yes. MR. CASTRO: What was your role? MR. COHEN: I was on the board of the Miss Universe Pageant. MR. CASTRO: Do you recallwhere the pageant was held? MR. COHEN: Yes, MR, CASTRO: Where is that? MR. COHEN: At the Crocus Center in Moscow. MR. CASTRO: Mr. Trump at the time told Real Estate Weekly that he networked at the pageant's after-party and said, quote, "The Russian market is attracted to me. I have a great relationship with many Russians, and almost all of the oligarchs were in the room." During this trip, Mr. Trump also met with a businessman from Sberbank, Russia. Did you attend any of these events, either at the pageant or anything leading up during the planning for the pageant? MR. RYAN: So all of that has to be answered more precisely. I would ask you to just reformulate the question. He said he wasn't to Russia, he said he was on the board and that he was involved. So he's answered just ask a more precise question, I'm sure he'll both. But if you could - MR. CASTRO: As part of your planning, did you attend any parties, receptions, functions where Mr. Trump was dealing with any of these Russian oligarchs or any of the Russian oligarchs were present? lvlR. COHEN: I'm -- MR. RYAN: Let me just make sure we understand the question. First of UNCI,ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE T]NITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 43 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE all, he wasn't in Russia for the event. MR. CASTRO: Counsel, my question is, during any of the planning, which also occurred here in the United States -- you were on the board -- did you attend these parties? Who was there? Were there Russian oligarchs there? Et cetera. You heard my question. MR. COHEN: No. MR. CASTRO: Can you give me a fullsentence so that I know exactly what you're -MR. COHEN: No, I didn't attend any parties with Russian oligarchs -MR. CASTRO: Any Russian -MR. COHEN: -- in regard to the Miss Universe Moscow pageant. MR. CASTRO: Any Russia businesspersons? MR. COHEN: Yes. MR. CASTRO: Who were they? MR. COHEN: The Agalarov family in Las Vegas. MR. CASTRO: What was your relationship to them? MR, COHEN: I don't have a relationship to them. MR, CASTRO: How long had you known the family or individuals within the family? MR. COHEN: ldid not. MR. CASTRO: So that was the first time you met them? MR. COHEN: Yes, sir, in Las Vegas at the Miss USA Pageant. MR. CASTRO: Have you subsequently ever been in business with any of them? MR. COHEN: No, sir. UNCLASSIFTED, COMMTTTEE SENSIT]VE PROPERTY OF THE LINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE MR. CASTRO: Been solicited or solicited them for business? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. CASTRO: All right. Did you meet anyone who worked for Sberbank? MR. COHEN: Not that I'm aware of. MR. CASTRO: During his trip, President Trump is quoted as saying, "l have plans for the establishment of business in Russia. Now I'm in talks with several Russian companies to establish this skyscraper." Do you recall being involved in any of these business discussions? MR. COHEN: ln what years, sir? MR. CASTRO: At anytime, but this is around 2013. MR. COHEN: No. MR. CASTRO: Any other year that you recall during your work for The Trump Organization? MR. COHEN: The Trump Moscow proposal. MR. CASTRO: Which was after 2013. MR. COHEN: Yes, in 2015. MR. CASTRO: Okay. We'llget to that. So did you make it out to Russia at that time, in 2013? MR. COHEN: I've never been to Russia. MR. CASTRO: Okay. I Five minutes, Mr. Castro. MR, CASTRO: On November 11 ,2013, Mr. Trump made a deal with the Crocus Group for Trump Tower in Moscow. Were you involved in that deal? MR. COHEN: For the Miss Universe Pageant? UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE TINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATiVES 44 45 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE MR. CASTRO: He made a dealwith the Crocus Group for Trump Tower in Moscow. MR. COHEN: No. MR. CASTRO: Do you know who else was involved? MR. RYAN: I'm sorry, sir. lf you could ask a more complete question. Is it about the Crocus Group? MR. CASTRO: Yes. MR. RYAN: Okay. MR. COHEN: I don't recallfrom the organization who was working on it. MR. CASTRO: From The Trump Organization or the other organization? MR. COHEN: You're talking about the * MR. CASTRO: The dealwith the Crocus Group. MR. COHEN: lt would have been done between attorneys for the Crocus Group and The Trump Organization. And as I said, I don't know -- I don't recall who it was that was working on that specific letter of intent. MR. CASTRO: Do you recallwhy this attempt to create a Trump Tower in Moscow fell through? MR. COHEN: ldo not. MR. CASTRO: You were general counsel at the time. MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. CASTRO: What was your position? MR. COHEN: I was specialcounselto Donald Trump. MR. CASTRO: You were a legal adviser, though. MR. COHEN: One of. MR. CASTRO: Of how many? UNCI,ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSTTIVE PROPERTY OF TI"IE TINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 46 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE MR. COHEN: Five. MR. CASTRO: So, based on the documents you provided to the committee, The Trump Organization appears to have pursued a project to build a Trump Tower in Moscow during 2015 and the first part of 2016. You provided the committee with a statement adding your perspective about the deal. When did you flrst begin discussions for this project? MR. COHEN: The end of 2015. MR. CASTRO: September statement 2015? ls that fair to say? I believe in your - MR. COHEN: Yes, September 2015. MR. CASTRO: All right. Who provided you with the proposal? MR. COHEN: Felix Sater. MR. CASTRO: Did you reach out to him, or did he reach out to you? MR. COHEN: Mr. Sater reached out to me. MR. CASTRO: On September 23rd, 2015, John Fotiadis emailed you with a revised Trump Tower Moscow design study sent with high importance. You replied with high importance. Do you recallwhy this proposal was urgent enough to warrant being flagged as high importance? MR. COHEN: Yes. MR. CASTRO: Why is that? MR. COHEN: Mr. Sater stated that it was very important to put together documents so that he could present it to the licensee that he was working for. MR. CASTRO: And let me ask you, going a step back, why take a proposal from Felix Sater seriously? Why possibly go into business with him? MR. COHEN: Mr. Sater has been quite successful over the years in terms UNCI,ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSfTIVE PROPERTY OF THE LINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 47 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITTVE of realestate opportunities, including the Trump SoHo and other properties. MR. CASTRO: Were you aware of his connections in Russia or Moscow? MR. COHEN: I had been told by him that he has relationships in Moscow. MR. CASTRO: Did you make an effort to verify those? MR. COHEN: No. MR. CASTRO: So you trusted him. MR. COHEN: Yes. MR. CASTRO: Do you know if Mr. Fotiadis traveled to Moscow in the process of creating the design study? MR. RYAN. l'm sorry. Mr. -MR. COHEN: Mr. Fotiadis. I do not. MR. CASTRO: And who is Mr. Fotiadis? MR. COHEN: He's an architect. l\4R. CASTRO: How did you choose him or select him as the architect? MR. COHEN: The design that was sent to Mr. Sater was an identical design that was contemplated to be built in Kazakhstan, which was another deal that I had looked at years before. MR. CASTRO: Okay. Was there any other developer or any other money partner that was part of this deal that you recall? MR. COHEN: I don't understand your question, sir. MR. CASTRO: Besides Felix Sater and Mr. Fotiadis, who else was part of this deal, as far as you recall? MR. COHEN: I was told that the licensee would be a company called l.C. UNCLASSIFIED, COMMTTTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE LINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 48 UNCI,ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE Expert. One minute, Mr. Castro MR. CASTRO: And who owns that? Do you know? MR. COHEN: Andrei-- and I'm sorry, I'm blanking on his last name. You threw me off with the Rybolovlev. MR. CASTRO: LC. Expert. Do you know if it was an American company or a Russian company? MR. COHEN: I believe it's a Russian company. MR. CASTRO: Okay. Okay. We'll turn it over to you guys. MR. CONAWAY: All right. MR. RYAN: Sir, do you mind if we just take a S-minute break? ls that acceptable? MR. CONAWAY: Sure. MR. RYAN: Thank you very much. IRecess.] UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE LTNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 49 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENS]TIVE [11:10 a.m.] MR. GOWDY: Mr. Cohen, my name is Trey Gowdy. This is Chairman Conaway. ln specific, we're looking into four areas of jurisdiction: Number one, what did Russia do with respect to our 2016 election cycle? With whom, if anyone, did they do it? The third category would be, what was the U.S. Government's response to Russia's efforts to interfere with and influence our election? And the fourth category would be generally what we call masking or unmasking and the dissemination of classified information. So I think we'lltry to do what I think might be the easy ones first. Do you have any information at all, regardless of the source, with respect to decisions to unmask U.S. persons' narnes in intelligence products? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. GOWDY: Have you ever disseminated classified information to anyone? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. GOWDY: With respect to the third category, were you in a position to know what the U.S. Government's response was to Russia's active measures during the 2016 election cycle? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. GOWDY: All right. Well, I want to focus on the first two tranches then, I'm going to use three words that to some people have similar meanings, but we're going to establish up front whether or not they have different meanings to you: "collusion," "conspiracy," and "coordination." All right. Do those words UNCLASSTFIED, COMM]TTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE UNITED STA'fES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 50 T]NCI,ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE have appreciably different meanings to you? And, if so, how would you define the three differently? We'll Start With "COllUSiOn." "COllUSiOn," "COOfdinatign," "COnSpiraCy." MR. COHEN: "Collusion" lwould define as working with at least one additional individualfor the purpose of effectuating a result. "Conspiracy," I would add that they knew that what they were intending to do was improper. And "coordination," I would say that you facilitated in some act to create the collusion. MR. GOWDY: Well, to the extent that you have even nuanced differences with respect to the definitions, l'm going to ask you about them separately. MR. COHEN: Yes, sir. MR. GOWDY: Do you have any information, evidence of collusion between then-Presidentialcandidate Donald Trump and the Russian Government ' to either interfere with or influence the GOP primary in 2016 or the general election in 2Q16? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. GOWDY: Do you have any evidence or information of coordination between then-Presidential candidate Donald Trump to interfere with or influence the 2016 primary or general election? MR, COHEN: No, sir. MR. GOWDY: Do you have any evidence, information, knowledge, access to facts, whatever, however you want to frame it in the most liberal way possible, the word "information," of a conspiracy between then-Presidential candidate Donald J. Trump and the Russian Government to interfere with or influence the 2016 election cycle, either at the primary or general election stage? MR. COHEN: No, sir. UNCI,ASSIF]ED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE {.INITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 51 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENS]TIVE MR. GOWDY: All right. The same question, but not with candidate Trump, with his campaign, his official campaign. Any evidence, regardless of the source, regardless of the manner in which that evidence may manifest itself, regardless of whether or not you conslder that evidence to be admissible, not admissible, any evidence, no matter how scant, no matter the source, of collusion between the campaign of Donald Trump and the Russian Government? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. GOWDY: The same question with respect to "coordination"? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. GOWDY: The same question with respect to "conspiracy"? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. GOWDY: All right. Now, we have covered candidate Trump, we have covered his official campaign. Now I want to ask you about unofficial campaign, which is, by definition, hard to define, but think hangers-on, wannabes, people who like to appear on television and represent that they have a relationship with Mr. Trump or someone else when, in fact, maybe they do not. So not him and not the official campaign, anyone else who's ever represented that they were somehow connected with the campaign. MR. COHEN: l'm not aware of any such person. MR. GOWDY: Let me ask the question first. Any evidence of collusion between anyone who fits that category and the Russian Government to interfere with or influence the 2016 election cycle, either at the primary or general election stage? MR. COHEN: Not that I'm aware of, sir. MR. GOWDY: The same question, "coordination." UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSTTIVE PROPERTY OF THE LINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 52 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE MR. COHEN: Not that I'm aware. MR. GOWDY: The same question, "conspiracy." MR. COHEN: Not that I'm aware. MR. GOWDY: All right. You issued a statement, not -- this is what l'd call the skinny version of your statement, I think there's a longer version, or there may have been a letter. I'm going to ask you whether or not this sounds familiar, whether or not this is a quote that can be attributed to you, via your lawyer. "Mr. Cohen is not aware of any impropriety related to Mr. Trump's relationship with Russia, nor is he aware of Mr. Trump having an improper political relationship with officials of the Russian Federation." ls that a quote that can be attributed to you, via your lawyer? MR. COHEN: Yes, sir. MR. GOWDY: All right. Well, I want to ask you about two words in here, because I like to focus on words, and I assume that words have a purpose or they wouldn't have shown up. "Mr. Cohen is not aware of any impropriety related to Mr. Trump's relationship with Russia." Pardon me? MR. CONAWAY: Do you have a page number so he can find it? MR. GOWDY: I don't. I'm reading a quote that I took out of it. But I'm happy to give you time to find it. I think it may be your attorney's letter. MR. RYAN: Yeah, he's got the letter in front of him. MR. GOWDY: All right. I don't know the page. I wrote down the quote. UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 53 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITTVE MR. RYAN: l'm sorry, what's the quote we're looking for? MR. GOWDY: The quote begins, "Mr. Cohen is not aware of any impropriety related to..." MR. RYAN. Sir, if you want to ask it as a statement that he can agree to, Rather than just having it in the document, just read it aloud and see if he agrees with it. Then we don't have to find it in the document. MR. GOWDY: Sure. I'm going to read a statement. We won't worry about the attribution. You just tell me whether or not the statement is accurate or not, okay? MR, COHEN: Yes, sir. MR. GOWDY: "Mr. Cohen is not aware of any impropriety related to Mr. Trump's relationship with Russia, nor is he aware of Mr. Trump having an improper political relationship with officials of the Russian Federation." MR. COHEN: And your question is, sir? MR. GOWDY: ls it accurate? MR. COHEN: Yes, sir, it's accurate. MR. GOWDY: AII right. You used the word "impropriety." "Mr, Cohen is not aware of any impropriety related to Mr. Trump's relationship with Russia." Take out the word "impropriety." Describe his relationship with Russia without reference to whether it's improper or not. How would you describe his relationship with Russia? MR. RYAN: Sir, do you want to put a time period on that? Like, before -- because he certainly has a relationship now as POTUS, but ljust -- think that's puzzling the witness. MR. GOWDY: Well, we can end the evening of the election, because it's UNCLASSIFTED, COMMTTTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE TINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 54 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITfVE very tough to interfere with and influence an election after the election. So we'll end that Wednesday after the election And we'll start 2 years before. How's that? Because I know when he announced, but I don't know when decided to run. in his head he So we'll say January 2014 through the Wednesday after the election. MR. COHEN: I know that there were positive statements made by President Putin about Mr. Trump. Mr. Trump responded with positive statements about President Putin. l'm unaware of any additional relationship between the two. As far as individuals from Russia, there are severalwho Mr. Trump knows that we have done some form of business with as an organization. And other than that, l'm not aware. MR. GOWDY: These two clauses are separated by a comma, at least in what I read to you. And I understand that you're not taking ownership of it; you just have testified to its accuracy. There's a comma: "Nor is he aware of Mr. Trump having an improper political relationship with officials of the Russian Federation." So, again, I'm assuming every word matters. So take out the word "improper." Tell me what you know about his political relationship, proper or otherwise, with officials of the Russian Federation. MR. COHEN: I don't believe Mr. Trump has any relationship with Russian Government employees or people working at the government in Russia. MR. GOWDY: You can see how that would lead a casual reader to wonder why you used the word "improper" to modify a political relationship. MR. RYAN: Blame the lawyer. TJNCI,ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE TINIITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE 55 MR. COHEN: I have to blame the lawyer. MR. GOWDY: All right. MR. COHEN: I think what we were trying to stress is that Mr. Trump knows people in Russia, and that relationship cannot be characterized as improper. MR. GOWDY: Okay. Did you have any advance - let me ask a different one. Do you know anything, regardless of the source -- were you aware of anything, regardless of the source, prior to the hacking of the DNC server? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR, GOWDY: Same question, prior to the hacking of John Podesta's email account. MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. GOWDY: Did you have any preknowledge, foreknowledge, advance notice that the contents of either one of those hacks would be made public? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. GOWDY: Were you involved in any way, shape, or form or know anyone who was in the dissemination of the fruits of those two hacks? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. GOWDY: You went to great lengths to mention the dossier. I don't have the dossier in front of me. MR. RYAN: I can remedy that. MR. GOWDY: Okay. Why don't you remedy it by giving it to your client, because that's who I'm going to ask about it. MR. RYAN: Thank you. UNCLASS]FIED, COMMITTEE SENSTTTVE PROPERTY OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 56 UNCLASSIFIED, COMIVIITTEE SENSfTIVE MR. GOWDY: These will be general questions, and if you want to answer specific ones, you can. You seem generally upset at references to you in that product, in the dossier. MR. COHEN: Yes, sir, lam. MR. GOWDY: Were any of the facts attributed to you, any of the actions attributed to you accurate? Before we get to the ones that are inaccurate, were any of them accurate? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. GOWDY: Which of the actions or events attributed to you are -- well, l'll let you address them in any way you want to, the falsity of said they were totally them. I think you false. You used some other similar language. What upsets you about the dossier? MR. COHEN: I would begin by pointing your attention to allegation 18, where, "Kremlin insider reports Trump lawyer Cohen's secret meeting with Kremlin officials in August of 2016 was or were held in Prague." As l've stated in my opening statement, I've never been to Prague and I've never been to the Czech Republic, nor have I met with them anywhere else in the world. Then, in the same allegation -- I'm going to terribly pronounce this word, but -- "Rossotrudnichestvo was being used as cover for this relationship, and its office in Prague may well have been used to host the CoheniRussian Presidential administration (PA) meetings." And, again, this allegation is completely false, as against me, for the same reason. l've never been to Prague, nor have I ever met with anyone UNCI,ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE LJ}IITED STATE,S HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES in the world 57 UNCLASSTFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE from this group regarding the allegations raised nor for any other purpose. Additionally, on the same page, 18, "Kosachev, also plausibly deniable, being part of the Russian legislature rather than executive, had facilitated the contact in Prague and, by implication, may have attended the meetings with Cohen there in August." Again, I believe Kosachev is an -- yes, it is -- he's an individual' Constantine Kosachev. I have never met Mr. Kosachev in Prague. I've never met him anywhere in the world The same page, allegation 18, "Cohen met officials from the PA Legal Department clandestinely in an EU country in August of 2016. This was in order to clean up the mess left behind by Western media revelation of Trump ex-campaign manager Manafort's corrupt relationship with the former pro-Russian Yanukovych regime in Ukraine and Trump foreign policy adviser Carter Page's secret meetings in Moscow with senior regime figures in July of 2016. According to the Kremlin adviser, these meetings were originally scheduled for Cohen in Moscow but shifted to what was considered an operationally soft EU country when it was judged too compromising for him to travel to the Russian capital." And, again, I claim that this allegation is completely and totally false. I never met with officials from the PA Legal Department clandestinely in the EU or anywhere else in the world. Then on page 30, the allegation: "A key role in the secret Trump campaign-Kremlin relationship was being played by the Republican candidate's personal lawyer, Michael Cohen." And I again deny this allegation, as it's entirely false. And l'm not aware of any secret Trump campaign or Kremlin relationship, and I played absolutely no UNCLASSIFIED, COMMfTTEE SENSIT]VE PROPERTY OF THE LTNITED STATES I.IOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES UNCLASS] FIED, 58 COMMITTEE SENSITIVE role in anything of the sort. On page 32, there's an allegation: "Kremlin insider outlines important role played by Trump's lawyer, Cohen, in secret liaison with Russian leadership." Again, it's absolutely and totally false. Again on page 32, "Cohen engaged with Russians in trying to cover up scandal of Manafort and exposure of Page and meets Kremlin officials secretly in the EU in August in pursuit of this goal." And, again, I completely deny the allegation as entirely false. I did not participate in any such meeting, nor would I have done so, in an attempt to conceal any suppression of information about Paul Manafort or Carter Page or anyone else, for that matter. Again on page 32, "The Kremlin insider hightighted an importance of Republican Presidentialcandidate Donald Trump's lawyer, Michael Cohen, in the ongoing secret liaison relationship between the New York tycoon's campaign and the Russian leadership. lt states that Cohen's role had grown following the departure of Paul Manafort as Trump campaign's manager in August of 2016." And, again, I completely deny the allegation as entirely false. l'm not aware of any ongoing secret liaison relationship between the Trump campaign and any Russian leadership, and I certainly had no role in any such relationship. lt also goes back to the original statement; I was in Los Angeles with my son during the time that they claim that this was happening. Again on page 32, it states, "Cohen was now heavily engaged in a cover-up and damage-limitation operation in an attempt to prevent the full details of Trump's relationship with Russia being exposed." And, again, I completely deny this allegation as false. I'm not aware of any UNCi,ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE LINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 59 UNCLASSfFIED, COMMITTEE SENSTTIVE impropriety relating to Mr. Trump's relationship with Russia, nor am I aware of Mr. Trump having an improper relationship, political or othenivise, with offlcials of the Russian Federation. MR. RYAN: I think we found the word, the quote. MR. COHEN: And I never have taken any action in order to cover up any aspect of Mr. Trump's dealings in Russia. On the following page, 33, another allegation: "Things had become even hotter since August on the Trump-Russia track. According to the Kremlin insider, this had meant that direct contact between the Trump team and Russia had been farmed out by the Kremlin to trusted agents of influence working in pro-government policy institutes like that of Law and Comparative Jurisprudence. Cohen, however, continued to lead for the Trump team." And this allegation is, again, completely and utterly false, and I'm not aware of any indirect communications between the Trump team and trusted agents of the Kremlin. I also played absolutely no role in any such communication. On the following page, 34, Trump's representative, Cohen, accompanied to Prague in August or September of 2016 by three colleagues for secret discussions with Kremlin representatives and associated operators/hackers." And I deny, again, this allegation as being completely false. I have never traveled to Prague or the Czech Republic, as evidenced by my passport, which I submitted to this committee. I also never participated in any discussions of any kind, secret or otherwise, with the Kremlin representatives and associated operators or hackers, whether it was in AugusUSeptember of 2016 or at any point in time. Again, on the same page, another allegation is, "Cohen had been UNCLASS]FfED, COMMTTTEE SENSIT]VE PROPERTY OF THE LTNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES UNCI,ASSfFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE 50 accompanied to Prague by three colleagues, and the timing of the visit was either in the last week of August or the first week of September. One of their main Russian interlocutors was Oleg Solodukhin, operating under the Rossotrud n ichestvo cove r." And I deny, again, this allegation as being completely and entirely false. I've never traveled to Prague or the Czech Republic. l'm not familiar with this organization, Rossotrudnichestvo, nor the individualthat's mentioned in this allegation, being Oleg Solodukhin. Never met Mr, Solodukhin, whether it's in AugusUseptember 2016 or thereafter or before. Then on page 35, "ln Prague, Cohen agreed contingency plans for various scenarios to protect the operation but, in particular, what was to be done in the event that Hillary Clinton won the Presidency." And, again, I deny this allegation as being completely and entirely false. I've never traveled, again, to Prague or the Czech Republic, where it claims I was. I was also not part of any operation, nor did I ever discuss or agree to discuss any plans of the type that is described in this allegation. There are also other aspects of the dossier which are not included in the statement that I put out which relate to my father-in-law, who is of Ukrainian descent, born in Chernivtsi, Ukraine, that he's a childhood friend of Vladimir Putin. That's absolutely inaccurate. Totally different countries. That my father-in-law owns a dacha in Sochi directly next-door to Vladimir Putin. That's totally and entirely false. As well as my father-in-law is one of the biggest real estate developers in Moscow currently, Absolutely and entirely false. Sometimes I wish it wasn't, but it is absolutely and entirely false. MR. GOWDY: Well, you know, sometimes in life, the factualdiscrepancies UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENS]TIVE PROPERTY OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 61 UNCLASSIF]ED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE are kind of subtle; you have to have a jury to kind of sort out whether the light was yellow or kind of off-red. The allegation that you're in Prague meeting with people while your testimony is that you were in Los Angeles is a pretty big factual discrepancy. And I guess the good news for the committee is they both can't be true. So you went through a series of things, and your denial was every bit as specific as the allegation was. Did the FBI ever approach you and say, "Mr. Cohen, you need to be aware that there are covert agents of foreign powers that are trying to contact you surreptitiously. We're not accusing you of doing anything wittingly, but, unwittingly, you need to be aware that the following is happening"? Did the Bureau ever have that conversation with you? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. GOWDY: You mentioned Paul Manafort. Have you ever had a conversation with Paul Manafort before he became campaign manager, while he was campaign manager, or after he left the campaign, about Russian involvement, interference, engagement, offers to help in the 2016 election cycle? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. GOWDY: The same question with Carter Page. MR, COHEN: No, sir. MR. GOWDY: Were you ever present for any conversations, did you ever have any conversations with anyone by any means'- written, oral, encrypted - about Russian efforts to interfere with our election via social media? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. GOWDY: Have you ever had any discussions with any Russian UNCLASSIFIED, COMMTTTEE SENSITTVE PROPERTY OF THE I.INITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 62 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSTTIVE Government officials about the U.S. 20'16 election cycle, either at the primary or general election stage? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. GOWDY: How about Russians that weren't connected with the Russian Government? Did you discuss the 2016 election cycle with them, either at the primary or general stage? MR. COHEN: I apologize. I lost track of the question. MR. GOWDY: Well, I was asking you about folks you knew to be connected with the Russian Government. You said about folks that you knew to be Russian, no. And l'm just asking you period. Did you have a lot of discussions or any discussions about the 2016 election cycle? MR. COHEN: Yes. MR. GOWDY: Who? MR. COHEN: People who I know that we associate with as family friends. We would be out for dinner just talking about the election. MR. RYAN: Let me ask, could you clarify, Mr. Gowdy, whether you mean people who are Russian Americans who are U.S. citizens as opposed to Russian citizens or who are not U.S. citizens? Coutd you divide the question and maybe ask it again? MR. GOWDY: How about we say both, either Americans of Russian descent or Russian citizens, discussions about the 2016 election cycle. And there's nothing wrong with having those discussions. I can just tell you, the question is going to come. So whether it comes from this side or that side, it's going to come. You've already said no to the Russian Government. UNCI,ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPE,RTY OF THE LINITED STATE,S HOUSE OF REPRE,SENTATIVES 63 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMTTTEE SENSITIVE MR. COHEN: Correct. MR. GOWDY: All right. Anyone you suspected of being connected with the Russian Government, even if they weren't connected with the Russian Government? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. GOWDY: All right. Now we're just going to general citizens, either Russian Americans or Russian citizens who happen to be in the United States. MR. COHEN: We know a lot of Russian Americans. Let me also divide the Russian Americans. Former Soviet Union Americans, many of them I don't know whether thet're from Russia or they were Ukrainian from birth, like my wife. MR. GOWDY: Your testimony is you've never traveled to Prague. ls your testimony also - have you traveled to Russia? MR. COHEN: Ihave never been to Russia. MR. GOWDY: Okay. So the planning that you were discussing with my friend from Texas was planning that took place in the United States for the pageant? MR. COHEN: I'm sony. One more time, sir? MR. GOWDY: The pageant, that planning, those conversations would've taken place in the United States? MR. COHEN: lt took place in New York. MR. GOWDY: Okay. I'm going to tetJ orl -f is going to ask you some questions. Thankyou, sir. BY - UNCTASSIFTED, COMMTTTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE I.NITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES UNCLASSIF]ED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE O 64 Thanks, Mr. Cohen, for coming in. As Mr. Gowdy referenced in the parameters outline for this committee, l'm going to ask you some questions pursuant to that. Do you have any information that would be useful to this committee to illuminate some of thosb parameters? Do you have any information about interactions that Mr. Trump has had, either before becoming President, during the election cycle, that he engaged in improper activities with Russians or representatives of the Russian Government? A O No, sir. Do you have any information that individuals associated with Mr. Trump, either in official or unofficial capacity, during the election cycle, acted improperly at the behest of then-candidate Trump to somehow improperly influence the elections with colluding or coordinating or conspiring with representatives of the Russian Government or the Russian Government itself? A O A O No, sir. About how long have you known Mr, Trump? A little more than a decade. And, in all that time, have you known Mr. Trump to request of you, through either your personal or professional relationship, any improper conduct with Russians or representatives from the Russian Government to do anything unlawfulor improper? A O No, sir. Mr. Gowdy asked you about the dossier, and we appreciate you going through that point by point. Do you have any idea how your name ended up in the dossier that was printed in BuzzFeed and discussed here today? UNCI,ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE I.INITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 65 UNCLASSTFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE A sir. No, Actually, l'm waiting for the committee to force somebody to tell us who paid for that dossier and find out how my name became involved with this. O So is it your testimony today, Mr. Cohen, that you are not a source for Mr. Christopher Steele for the dossier or otherwise? A O No, sir, lam not. Do you know anybody that is a source for Mr. Steele or the information that was produced in the dossier, personally or through a third parly? A O No, sir, ldo not. Can you confirm if any of the allegations against you or any individuals associated with the Trump campaign as you reference in the dossier are accurate in any way? A O I'm sorry. One more time, please. Sure. No problem. Can you confirm to us whether or not any of the representations made against you or any of those individuals associated with Donald J. Trump in the dossier are accurate in any way? A I can't answer for anyone else. I can only answer for myself. And every allegation raised against me or my family are completely and entirely false, O A O Do you know Christopher Steele, personally or otherurise? ldo not. Do you know any of his representatives or any representatives that may have provided information in the creation and production of the dossier? A O No. All right, There was some discussion earlier about your interactions with a Mr. Felix UNCLASSIFTED, . COMMITTEE SENSIT]VE PROPERTY OF THE LINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES UNCLASSIFfED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE 66 Sater. l'm going to ask you a couple follow-up questions. For as long as you've known Mr. Sater, has he provided you with any reason to believe that he's working for the Russian Government or at the behest of the Russian Government? A O He has not. And do you have any information in your dealings with Mr. Sater over the years that he was directed by then-candidate Trump and/or any of his associates to improperly influence the 2016 U.S. election? A O A O A O A I'm not aware of any such, And your last communication with Mr. Sater? Please remind me. Approximatety 3 months ago. Phone call? Email? Do You remember? I believe it was a text message. Regarding? How am I doing. Generally, can you provide this committee with the following information: ls there any nexus between you, Michael Cohen, and the Trump campaign or then-candidate Trump that would show or allow us to infer that he was acting on behalf of the Russians? A I'm a little confused by the question, sir. MR. RYAN: My apology. lf you could restate I O it. I missed it too. Sure. BYI Basically, what I'm asking, sir: ls there any information to show a nexus between yourself and Donald Trump and the Trump campaign for President UNCI.ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE LINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE 67 of any improper conduct at the behest of the Russians? A O Not that I'm aware. Okay. Mr. Gowdy, do you have anything else? I Mr. Conaway? All right. Over to you all for 15 minutes. MR. CASTRO: Thank you, guys. A few cleanup questions, and then I'll get back to the Trump fower in Moscow stuff. Who are you renting your apartment to right now? You said you're renting it. MR. RYAN: lf you want to ask if he's renting it to a Russian, it becomes pertinent. You really don't need, Mr. Castro, to know who he's renting his apartment to. MR. SCHIFF: Are you asserting a privilege? MR. RYAN: lt's pertinency. MR. SCHIFF: ls it a privilege? MR, RYAN: lt's pertinency. Do want me to quote the Supreme Court cases on pertinency? MR. CASTRO: We need to know who it is, because we need to find whatever connections they have, possibly, or maybe not. Maybe it's just some random person. MR. RYAN: This is a rummage. And pertinency, established by the Supreme Court, requires you to establish pertinence. MR. CASTRO: Counsel, you know that if it's a rummage it won't be UNCLASSIFIED, COMMTTTEE SENSTTIVE PROPERTY OF THE LINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 68 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITTVE allowed in court annvay. MR. RYAN: Mr. Castro, the difference, this isn't a court proceeding, as you made the point before. MR. SCHIFF: Mr. Chairman, the issue here is we don't know who the identity is. Now, if it's Felix Sater, for example - he's not a Russian -- MR. RYAN: Ask. MR. SCHIFF: - okay? lt would be pertinent. Well, we're not going to ask, like, 5,000 questions. ls it Felix Joe Smith? ls it - just answer the question, and we'll Sater? ls it - MR. RYAN: lt's not pertinent. MR. SCHIFF: That is not a recognizable objeclion. MR. RYAN: lt is, sir. The Supreme Court says it is. MR. CASTRO: Trey, that's not a privilege, thafs not an objection. MR. SCHIFF: You can invoke a privilege if you wish. MR. CASTRO: My time is burning up here. MR. RYAN: He's going to answer, Mr. Chairman. But my point is, we're going to have this over and over again as we do the rummage sale. Go ahead and answer the question. MR. COHEN: I sold the apartment about 10 days, 12 days ago. Prior to that, the apartment was rented to an American by the name of MR.CASTRO: MR. COHEN: I who I have known for many, many years, as well as his brother and the family. He needed a place to live. MR. CASTRO: Okay. Was he the one -- he was renting that? UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 69 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITTVE MR. COHEN: Yes, sir. MR. CASTRO: Okay. Who did you sell it to? MR. COHEN: ljust sold it to a gentleman that lives in the building narned MR. CASTRO: Okay MR. COHEN: Yes. MR. CASTRO: At what point in time did you become aware of that? MR. COHEN: Approximately 2015. MR. CASTRO: Was this before or after the email exchange where you talk about the project in Moscow? Did you become aware of this before or after that? MR. COHEN: I don't recall. MR. CASTRO: How did you become aware of it? MR. COHEN: There was an ABC television segment done on Mr. Sater. MR. CASTRO: Have you been an informant for any intelligence agency of the United States? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. CASTRO MR. COHEN: MR. CASTRO: Yes. What was the nature of that conversation? MR. COHEN: UNCI,ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSTTIVE PROPERTY OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTANVES 70 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSIT]VE MR. CASTRO: Did he mention anything about Russia, the government, anybody associated with Russia, Russian Americans? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. CASTRO: Okay. Getting back to Trump Tower Moscow, who is Giorgi Rtskhiladze? MR. COHEN: That's Giorgi Rtskhiladze. He's involved in the Trump Georgia project, when we were looking to build a building in the country of Georgia, in Batumi. He also came and presented to me a proposalto build a Trump Moscow property. MR. CASTRO: This is separate from the Felix Sater project that - MR. COHEN: Yes, Mr. Castro. MR. CASTRO: Okay. So those are two separate projects. MR. COHEN: Yes, sir. MR. CASTRO: What became of this project that he proposed? MR. COHEN: Nothing. MR. CASTRO: Nothing beyond an exchange of emails or conversations? MR. COHEN: Correct. MR. CASTRO: Okay. And was Global Development Group, LLC, a Russian company that The Trump Organization would have partnered with in that instance? MR. COHEN: I'm unaware. MR. CASTRO: Okay. Well, there was an exchange, an email exchange, between you and Mr. - "Rtskhiladze"? MR. COHEN: "Rtskhiladze." UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE I.INITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 7t UNCLASS]FIED, COMMITTEE SENS]TIVE MR. CASTRO: - Rtskhiladze, where he ends an emailsaying, "Let's get the term sheet going." Nothing became of it after that? MR. COHEN: No, sir. There was never a term sheet prepared. MR. CASTRO: He also sent you an email with the subject line "The Residential Moscow." The email appears to contain a ZIP file on a residential development. ls that correct? Do you recall that? MR. COHEN: I recall it. MR. CASTRO: lt appears that the attachment is in Russian. Do you speak Russian? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. CASTRO: He asked you if you needed a translation or not. MR. COHEN: Yes. MR. CASTRO: And on October 12th,2015, Mr. Sater emailed you about a person named Andrey Kostin, who is Putin's top flnance guy and the CEO of the second-largest bank in Russia. According to the email, Mr. Kostin had indicated that he would finance Trump Moscow. Mr. Sater goes on to say that, quote, "now all we need is Putin on board and we are golden. Meeting with Putin and top deputy is tentatively set for the 14th." Do you recall what date that was? This was on October 12th,2015. Was it November 14th? Do you recallthe date? MR. RYAN: Hold on a second. I want to make sure I understand what the - there was a lot there, and I'm just asking just to separate the question. The question is? MR. CASTRO: The question is, when was this meeting scheduled? He UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSTTIVE PROPERTY OF THE I.INITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES UNCI,ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE 72 says -- MR. RYAN: You're reading something that's from Mr. Sater to Mr. Cohen? MR. CASTRO: No, no, not from Mr. -- yeah, I'm sorry, yes, from Mr. Sater. MR. RYAN: So perhaps, sir, you could ask him if he remembers that communication, to start. MR. CASTRO: Well, do you remember the communication? MR. COHEN: I do not. MR. CASTRO: Okay. Let me see. Can we find it so that we can go back to it? We'llcome back to it. Do you know who Andrey Kostin is? MR. COHEN: Yes. MR. CASTRO: Who is he, and what does he do? MR. COHEN: He is the head of MR. CASTRO: WB Bank. WB Bank. Did you ever discuss with him the potential financing of the project? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. CASTRO: Was there an offer made on financing or anything else? MR. COHEN: No, sir, MR. CASTRO; Any other interaction with Mr, Kostin, socially, for anything else? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. CASTRO: Okay. No other phone conversations or communication? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. CASTRO: Okay. UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 73 UNCLASSTFTED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE On November 3rd, 2015, Mr, Sater emailed you, responding to a comment made by President Obama. Mr. Sater says, "Get that clip, Michael. We can own this story." Sater goes on to talk about Trump's business background being conducive to working with Putin. He then says, quote, "l think I can get Putin to say that at the Trump Moscow press conference. lf he says it, we own this election." Did you send a clip to Mr. Sater? MR. COHEN: I'm unaware of that communication. I don't recall it. MR. CASTRO: Okay. They were part of the production, so we'll come back. They're Bates-stamped. MR. RYAN: And I guess it might be just easier to hand him that, let him read from that, so he can be refreshed on it. MR. CASTRO: Okay. Why don't we get those emails lined up. We're going to present them all to you, and then we can -MR. COHEN: lf I can just clarify, l'm unaware of the clip that you're referring to. MR. CASTRO: Okay. Are you aware of the -- do you recall the email communication that I read from? MR. COHEN: I recall many communications with Mr. Sater. MR. CASTRO: Well, do you know whether Mr. Sater was referring to a press conference about the Trump Tower Moscow project? ls that fair to say? MR. COHEN: Yes, it was regarding the Trump Tower Moscow project. MR. CASTRO: Okay. MR. SCHIFF: Mr. Castro, you might want to take 1 minute. It may refresh your recollection to be able to review the documents, and UNCLASS]FTED, COMMITTEE SENSITTVE PROPERTY OF THE LINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 74 UNCI,ASSIFIED, COMM]TTEE SENSITIVE we're pulling them for You now. MR. COHEN: Thank You. MR. CASTRO: While we get those prepared, why don't I ask you a few other questions about other subjects, okay? or, actually, why don't I turn it over to Eric. while we get my part, we'll go to Eric. MR. SWALWELL: Mr. Cohen, You -MR. RYAN: Hold on. sir, if you're going to ask a question about this, we need to read it. MR. SWALWELL: I'm not asking a question yet. Mr. Cohen: MR. RYAN: Well, we'll read okay. we'll put it aside. when you come back to it, it. MR. SWALWELL: Mr. Cohen, you told Mr. Gowdy earlier -- or, actually, I that you were never familiar with Mr. Sater working at the behest of the Russians. ls that right? MR. COHEN: That's correct. MR. RYAN: Sir, it was the Russian Government. lt wasn't "the Russians." He was certainly - MR, SWALWELL: I'm asking Mr. cohen. And if you want to supplement after, you can do that, but I'm asking Mr. Cohen. MR. RYAN: Well, I'm just asking you to clarify your question, because what was said byf was "the Russian Government," not "the RuSSianS." And, certainly, there's a business transaction here. And I think you have to be accurate in the question you ask in order to get an accurate answer. UNCLASSIT'IED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE LINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 75 UNCLASSIF]ED, COMMITTEE SENS]T]VE MR. SWALWELL: Mr. Cohen, you also told Mr. Gowdy that you were not familiar and you had no knowledge of any collusion, conspiracy, or coordination between Russia and Donald Trump. ls that right? MR. COHEN: That's correct. I Five minutes, Mr. Swalwell. MR. SWALWELL: So l'm showing you an emailthat your counsel has -- it was actually provided by you -- subject line, "Putin/Trump," from Felix to Michael Cohen. You're familiar with that email, aren't you? MR. RYAN: Hold on. He can't say he's familiar with it if he hasn't looked at it. Read the email, and then look up and you can answer his questions. MR. COHEN: Okay, sir. MR. SWALWELL: The date is November 3rd, 2015. ls that right? t\IR. COHEN: According to the document presented, yes, that's the date. MR. SWALWELL: And this is an authentic document that you received from Mr. Sater. ls that right? MR. COHEN: lt appears so. Yes. MR. SWALWELL: And November 3rd, 2015, Donald Trump is a candidate for President at that time in the Republican primary. ls that right? lvlR. COHEN: I believe so. MR. SWALWELL: The subject of the email is "Putin/Trump"? MR. COHEN: That's what it says. MR. SWALWELL: And Felix writes to you in the second sentence, "ljust watched the Trump press conference. Loved Putin/Russia reference." ls that right? UNCI,ASSTFIED, COMMTTTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE I.INITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 76 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE MR. COHEN: That's what it says, yes. MR. SWALWELL: He further says a few sentences later, "By the way, a very close person and partner to Putin's closest friend, partner and adviser who has been with Putin since teenage years, his friend and partner on the largest shopping center in Moscow, is flying into the private island in the Bahamas Andrey rented next week." ls that right? MR. COHEN: That's what it saYs. MR. SWALWELL: So Felix is sharing with you that he knows people close to President Putin. ls that right? That's how you understood that? MR. COHEN: That's what he was trying to portray, yes. MR. SWALWELL: OkaY, He also says that, "Michael, I arranged for lvanka to sit in Putin's private chair at the desk and office in the Kremlin." ls that right? MR. COHEN: That's what it says. MR. SWALWELL: So Putin is demonstrating that he knows people at the highest levels of the Kremlin. ls that correct? MR. COHEN: I'm sorry. Say that again, please. MR. SWALWELL: Felix is demonstrating to you that he knows people at the highest levels of the Kremlin. ls that correct? MR. COHEN: That is what he's trying to say. MR, SWALWELL: He further says, "l will get Putin on this program, and we will get Donald elected." ls that correct? MR. COHEN: That's what it says. MR. SWALWELL: So this is an email that is talking not just about a Trump Tower deal but he also now has invoked the election that your boss, Donald UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSIT]VE PROPERTY OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 77 UNCLASSIF]ED, COMMITTEE SENSITTVE Trump, is running in. ls that correct? MR. COHEN: l'm so sorry. One more time, please. MR. SWALWELL: You would agree that this email mixes both business with Trump Tower and also the 2016 Presidentialelection? One minute, Mr. Swalwell MR. COHEN: Yes, that's what Felix is saying. MR. SWALWELL: And Felix also says, "l know how to play it, and we will get this done. Buddy, our boy can become President of the United States, and we can engineer it." ls that right? MR. COHEN: That's what it says. MR. SWALWELL: When he says "we," you take that to mean he and you. ls that correct? MR. COHEN: Correct. MR. SWALWELL: And when he says "engineer," you would read that to mean that the two of you can work in conjunction with the Kremlin to get the President elected. ls that right? MR. COHEN: I'm so sorry. Again, one more time? I was just trying to read the line that you were referring to when you were asking the question. MR. SWALWELL: Sure. He says, "Buddy, our boy can become President of the USA, and we can engineer it." We would agree that "we" is a reference to you and he? MR. COHEN: We agree. MR, SWALWELL: And "engineer" would be a reference to Donald Trump being elected President. Is that right? MR, COHEN: That's correct. UNCLASSTFIED, COMMITTEE SENSIT]VE PROPERTY OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATiVES UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE 78 MR. SWALWELL: And "also" would be a reference to working with Vladimir Putin, just from the context of the email? MR. COHEN: Correct. MR. SWALWELL: And then you would agree that the next sentence says, "l will get all of Putin's team to buy in on this." ls that right? MR. COHEN: Correct. MR. SWALWELL: Again, demonstrating closeness to Putin. MR. COHEN: His interpretation. MR. SWALWELL: Correct. He further says, "Michael, Putin gets on stage with Donald for a ribbon-cutting for Trump Moscow, and Donald owns the Republican nomination." ls that right? MR. COHEN: That's what it says. That's his opinion. MR. SWALWELL: Again, his opinion is that he can connect this Trump Tower business dealto Donald Trump winning the Republican nomination. ls that right? That's how you would read it? MR. COHEN: That's what he's trying to state. MR. SWALWELL: Okay. Then he goes on to say, "You and I willget Donald and Vladimir on a stage together very shortly, that the game-changer." Do you see that sentence? l\IR. COHEN: I see that. MR. SWALWELL: And would you agree that a reasonable interpretation of that is, again, that connecting Donald Trump with Vladimir Putin would be a game-changer that would elect Donald Trump? MR. COHEN: ln Mr. Sater's opinion. UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE I.INITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 79 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENS]TIVE MR. SWALWELL: Okay. I have more questions on the email, but * MR. COHEN: I would just like to add one last statement. MR. SWALWELL: Sure. MR. COHEN: Mr, Trump and President Putin never stood on the stage together. I don't know whether or not the statements made by Mr. Sater about lvanka are true. What Mr. Sater is is a salesman, and he uses very colorful language. What he was really interested in was showing his enthusiasm for this election so that he can keep me interested in the proposal, the Trump Moscow proposal, because there would have been very good economics for him in it as well. So the fact that he sent me this response, I never considered any of this noise. I was only looking at the Trump Moscow proposal. me, I just ignored. I didn't care if she sat in it or she didn't. Everything else, to None of this else made any sense, whether he thought by putting the two on a stage can actually accomplish anything while Mr. Trump was 1 of 16 candidates for the Republican nomination. There was never any action taken by me, and there WaS never any action taken by Mr, Trump, as neither of us ever went to Moscow on behalf of this opportunity. I rhanks. BY O Just a few questions, Mr. Cohen. l'll return to that email specifically in a moment. But, during the time period in which this email involves and over the course of the time period that's pertinent to this investigation, that is, Donald Trump's entry as a candidate for President and UNCLASS]FIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE LINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 80 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE to the day of the election, how many emails did you get regarding anything and everything Donald Trump for President? A O sorry. One more time? I'm so Sure. I'm trying to figure out sort of the totality of emails that exist that you received from individuals like Felix Sater and otherwise during the relevant time period of this investigation. I mean, were you just getting a couple of emails like this, or were you getting a lot? MR. RYAN: lf I could restate the question, He asked you first, in the first round, were other people giving advice to you about what Donald Trump needed to do in the election, separating it from Russia. That's a better way of asking it, yeah. I MR. COHEN: And so the question is what? MR. RYAN: Did you receive one email a month or many a month during the campaign period for Mr. Trump that are about advice people are giving? MR. COHEN: Many. Many. BY O A O What's "man!," if you can ballpark? A hundred a month, if not more. And how much time are you devoting to reading and reviewing each of these emails? A O A Very, very little. Why is that? Because I have no interest in those emails. I was not part of the campaign. I was special counsel to Donald Trump. And I was doing which was for the realestate company and for him and the family. UNCI,ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE LI}IITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESE,NTATIVES my job, UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE O 81 So, at the time period in question, you were not doing any work at the behest of the Donald J. Trump campaign for President. You're doing your job as special counselto Mr. Trump. A O Correct. Okay. So did people attempt to make the inference that, because you were special counsel to then-candidate Trump, that you were doing work for the Trump campaign? A I believe that my email address is very easy to find on the internet. And based upon my position at The Trump Organization, as well as my profile being on television, people believed that they were entitled to send me their thoughts, their opinions throughout the entire campaign. O A O A O And this is something that actually occurred? Yes, sir. Frequently? Very frequently. And Mr. Sater's email, does that fall into one of those categories? Or does it fall into the category of you conducting your role as special counsel to Mr. Trump? A This email is part of many emailexchanges between Mr. Sater and myself regarding the Trump Moscow proposal. O And that is specific for The Trump Organization, not -- does it have any relationship to the Trump campaign for President? A O No, sir. Right. So is there any portion of that email or communications you had with Mr. Sater that sort of bled over into the realm of the Trump campaign for UNCLASSTF]ED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE TINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 82 UNCI,ASSIFIED, COMM]TTEE SENSITIVE President? A O A Yes. Can you give us an example or a summary? The portions regarding President Putin standing with Mr. Trump at what would have been a groundbreaking ceremony, all the references in this email to Putin. I extracted from this emailwhat I was looking for, which was the advancement of the Trump Moscow proposal. O So it was common foryou to receive emails and communications that both referenced directly that you had to take for action in your role as special counsel to Mr. Trump and other information that was extraneous to your role as special counsel to Mr. Trump. A O Yes. I have no controlwhat somebody puts to me in an email. And in this such emailwith Mr. Sater, as you said, he was combining the two and assuming you would have the authority or the ability to respond for both special counsel to Mr. Trump and as part of the campaign for Mr. Trump's Presidency. A The answer is yes. I think Mr. Sater also had a second motive in terms of what I was looking for, which was part of my three-prong test. The first is that they provide me with a piece of property that they either owned or controlled that would be suitable for a Trump property brand. The second was that they had the ability to obtain the necessary permits or authorization to build the building and the size of the building in Moscow. And that, of course, would require assistance from government. And the third is that they had the ability to finance the project. What he tries to do in this email, which most of it I would say is salesmanship, is to show me that he has the government relations that's UNCiJASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 83 UNCLASSIFfED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE necessary in order to accomplish this type of a project in Russia, which requires govern ment assistance. O Now, given your relationship to then-candidate Trump and it being a relative.ly close relationship, this type of information that Mr. Sater relayed to you in this email, was it an attempt, in your opinion, to sort of ingratiate himself with you and possibly the Trump campaign? A I don't know what Mr. Sater was thinking when he sent this. All I know is I was looking at it as far as being able to advance the nonbinding letter of intent into the creation of definitive documents for a licensing deal. O So this email is an example of something you took for action solely in the business capacity in your representation of Mr. Trump. A Correct, including I never even discussed the contents of this email with Mr. Trump or anyone. O Thank you. I yield back - or Mr. Conaway. Sorry MR. CONAWAY' Just to be clear, would you describe Mr. Sater for us? How does he conduct himself? The colorful language there and the overstatements, is that his normalstyle? Just give us a quick description of Mr. Sater, because I don't know him. MR. COHEN: So Mr. Sater is, as I stated, a salesman. He was and has been successful in turning around his life, from having the convictions. He has been successful in terms of putting people together in order to build significant properties, including putting together two more Tamir Sapir's Czar Group with Bayrock. That was a company that he, I believe, was a partner Organization for a branded hotel in the downtown UNCI,ASSIFf ED, area. in with The Trump I believe he was also COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF TFIE LINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE 84 involved in another property in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. MR. CONAWAY: So, successful, but a salesman as well. MR. COHEN: That's correct. MR. CONAWAY: So you say you did not discuss that email exchange, particularly the part about helping Mr. Trump become President. Are you aware of Mr, Sater pitching those contacts and that line of logic to anybody else? MR. COHEN: I don't know the answer to that. MR. CONAWAY: Okay. Thanks. We're through on our side MR. SWALWELL: Thank you. Mr. Cohen, you stated that, with respect to the November 3rd, 2015, email from Felix Sater to you, that you had extracted what was important to you. ls that right? MR. COHEN: Correct. IVIR. SWALWELL: And what was important to you was the business deal. ls that right? MR. COHEN: That's correct. MR. SWALWELL: And you said, lwas looking at it as being able to advance essentially the business deal. ls that right? MR. COHEN: Correct. MR. SWALWELL: And Felix Sater, is he someone that at that time you trusted? MR, COHEN: I had no reason not to trust him. However, that would never change my standard operating. procedure. MR, SWALWELL: Now, Mr. Cohen, the last part of this email says, "Get UNCI,ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 85 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE me the clip. I will get it to Putin and his people quickly, and it will help our cause in process." Do you see that? MR. COHEN: I do. MR. SWALWELL: What was your understanding as far as what Mr. Sater was doing on his end with Mr. Putin or with the Russians with this business deal? MR. COHEN: I don't know the answer to that. MR. SWALWELL: I want to turn your attention to -- and I'm passing you a production that you provided, MDC-H000689, and ask you if you recognize it. And take a look at it before I ask a question. And I'm only going to ask about the front part. MR. RYAN: I'm sorry, sir. I'm just making sure it's not associated. Okay MR. SWALWELL: Do you recognize that? MR. COHEN: ldo, MR. SWALWELL: And that is a December 17th, 2015, Google alert on Donald Trump. ls that right? MR. COHEN: That's correct. MR, SWALWELL: And the Google alert is for an article titled "Russian President Vladimir Putin praises Donald Trump as talented and very colorful." ls that right? MR. COHEN: Correct. MR. SWALWELL: And the Google alert is something that you had set up on your boss, Mr. Trump. ls that right? MR, COHEN: That's correct. MR. SWALWELL: And you received that at '10:36 a.m., and at 4 o'clock p.m., you forwarded that Google alert ls that right? UNCLASSIFfED, COMMITTEE SENSITTVE PROPERTY OF THE I.INITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE 86 MR. COHEN: Correct. MR. SWALWELL: And Felix is Mr. Sater? MR. COHEN: Correct. MR. SWALWELL: And in the fonararding, you wrote, "Now is the time' Call me." ls that right? MR. COHEN: Correct. MR. SWALWELL: So November 3rd, 2015, he says, "Get me the clip." And on 1211712015, you send him a clip from ABC News. ls that right? That is, a Google alert which is a news clipping from ABC News. MR. RYAN: Do the two have any relationship is the question. MR. SWALWELL: Do you agree that you sent him a clip on December 17th? MR. COHEN: Congressman, I don't know whether or not this Google alert contained a clip or this was just a news article. MR. SWALWELL: Okay. Why did you send this news article to Mr. Sater? MR. COHEN: I don't know, but I can assure you that there's no connection between lhe 111312015 email that we spoke about and 1 month and2 weeks later. MR. SWALWELL: You would agree, though, that Mr. Sater throughout his November 3rd, 2015, email is suggesting that connecting Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin would be a good thing, right? MR. COHEN: That is what Mr. Sater says, yes. MR. SWALWELL: And you would agree that the clip that you fonuarded to him on December 17 was Donald Trump's own words connecting himself to Vladimir Putin. Is that right? UNCI,ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE LINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 87 UNCLASS]FTED, COMMITTEE SENS]TIVE MR. COHEN: Sir, I'm sorry, I don't understand the question. MR, RYAN: lt's actually -MR. SWALWELL: I'm sorry, it was the reverse. lt was Putin praising Donald Trump. ls that right? MR. RYAN: Could you just start the question over? MR. SWALWELL: You would agree that what you forwarded him was a connection between Vladimir Putin praising Donald Trump? MR. COHEN: That is what it appears I forwarded. MR. SWALWELL: Why would you fonarard that to him? MR. COHEN: I don't recall any conversation that could have taken or did take place on either that day or the day before, maybe in passing conversation. And this article may have just been on point to what we were talking about. MR. SWALWELL: Why did you type, "Now is the time. Call me"? MR. COHEN: Could be regarding the Trump Moscow proposal, in order to speak to people to get me what I was looking for, which is the documentation demonstrating ownership or control over a site with the necessary permits. MR. SWALWELL: But you agree that nowhere in the foruvarded email are you discussing business. lt's a political news clip that you're sending him. MR. COHEN: lt's a newspaper article that I foruvarded to Mr. Sater. MR, SWALWELL: And you're suggesting, though, that when you said, "Now is the time. Call me," very cryptically, because there's no other reference to anything else, that you could be calling back to the business deal? MR. COHEN: Congressman, I can assure you that there are many emails in between November 3rd of 2015 and December 17lh of 2015 between Mr. Sater and l. UNCLASSTFIED, COMMITTEE SENS]TIVE PROPERTY OF THE I.INITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 88 UNCI,ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSIT]VE MR. RYAN: I think he's asking a different question. MR. SWALWELL: Yeah, but you just stated a moment ago that "now is the time, call me" could have been in reference to Mr. Sater should call you about the Trump Tower deal. Is that right? MR. COHEN: lt could have been about the Trump Moscow proposal, yes, MR. SWALWELL: What else could it have been about? MR. COHEN: I don't know. MR. SWALWELL: Was there a reason that you didn't want to talk about it on emailand you wanted to talk about it on the phone? MR. COHEN: Not that I recall. I thought it would make more sense to speak by phone instead of these lengthy emails or text messages, which I find difficult. MR. SWALWELL: Well, I guess I don't understand. lf you don't remember what you meant by "now is the time, call me," how do you -- let me finish, counsel. MR. RYAN: That's not his testimony. He testified to you previously - MR. SCHIFF: Counsel, let him finish. MR. SWALWELL: Mr. Cohen, you said that it could have been about the Trump Tower business deal, but it could have been about something else. ls that right? MR. COHEN: lt's possible, yes. MR. SWALWELL: So, if you can't recall what it was about, how can you testify that you wanted to talk about the Trump Tower deal not by text or by email but over the phone? MR. RYAN: First of all, your question mischaracterizes his testimony. UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE UNITED STATES I{OUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 89 UNCI,ASS]FIED, COMMTTTEE SENSTTIVE Do you understand the question? MR. COHEN: ldon't. MR. SWALWELL: So, Mr. Cohen, "Now is the time. Call me." Why would you want to talk to Mr. Sater over the phone rather than have an email exchange? MR. COHEN: Because there could have been a lengthy conversation, and, instead of typing out paragraph after paragraph after paragraph, l'm old-school, I prefer to speak on the phone. MR. SWALWELL: But when you said, "Now is the time, call me," and the only subject line is a Google alert on Donald Trump and the body of the email is a news clipping about Vladimir Putin praising Donald Trump, wouldn't you agree that it appears that you're asking him to callyou about the news clipping? MR. RYAN: lt's argumentative. He's asked and answered the question, and you're -MR. SWALWELL: Can you answer, Mr. Cohen? MR. RYAN: -- arguing with the witness, Mr. Swalwell. MR, SWALWELL: Mr. Cohen, I don't understand why you would ask him to callyou -MR. RYAN: He's already answered that, sir. {IIVCLASSTFfED, COMM]TTEE SENSTTIVE PROPERTY OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 90 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE [12:15 p.m.] MR. SWALWELL: Are you asking him to callyou about Mr. Trump and Vladimir - MR. RYAN: He already answered that. MR. SCHIFF: Let him finish the question. MR. SWALWELL: Let me finish.. MR. RYAN: Sure. My apologies. I apologize for speaking over you. MR. SWALWELL: Mr. Cohen, you said, "Now is the time. Callme." The only information in the email is that Vladimir Putin praises Donald Trump as talented and very colorful. Weie you asking him to call you about the news article? MR. RYAN: Sir, it has been asked and answered. Sir, you've been asking about 10 minutes about this. MR. SWALWELL: He hasn't given us a clear answer. MR. RYAN: Well, that's your opinion. MR. SWALWELL: And that's your opinion. Mr. Cohen, do you want to answer it or you want to assert a privilege? MR. RYAN: You're commenting on his testimony, We can stay as long as we want. Let me explain something. There's an independent - MR, SCHIFF: You're going to cause him to be here longer. MR. RYAN: There's an independent counselwho's going to want this transcript. I'm not letting him answer questions that are all over the map when he's already answered it. lf you want to ask a clear question about a factual issue related to this, please ask him, but you haven't asked for it, MR. SWALWELL: When you said, "Call me," was it with respect to the UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSfTIVE PROPERTY OF THE TINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 91 UNCI,ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSTTIVE news article? MR. RYAN: lt's already asked -- it's asked and answered. You may answer again. MR. COHEN: I believe so. MR. SWALWELL: A moment ago you said that it could have been about the Trump Tower deal. Could it have been about both? MR. COHEN: About the -MR. SWALWELL: The news article MR. COHEN: The news article - - MR. SWALWELL: -- and the Trump Tower deal. MR. COHEN: I could have asked him to call me to comment on the article. -- generally in all of my communications with Mr. Sater, the sole purpose that I had in communicating with Mr. Sater was about the Trump Moscow proposal. MR. SWALWELL: But, Mr. Cohen, you would agree that the sole purpose of this email was a political one and that it was about Vladimir Putin praising Donald Trump. MR. RYAN: I object to the form of the question. lt has been asked and answered and you're arguing with the witness. MR. SWALWELL: You said that the sole purpose of your communications with Mr. Sater was about the Trump Tower deal, You would agree that this December 17th emaildoes not mention at all Trump Tower. MR. COHEN: lt does not mention Trump Tower, because the proposal was between The Trump Organization and l.C. Expert, to which Mr. Sater was the licensee's - the potential licensee's representative. MR. SWALWELL: Did you ever tell Donald Trump about Mr. Sateds UNCLASSIFTED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE TINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 92 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITfVE proposal in the November 3rd,2015, email - that we could make our boy president -- did you ever pass that along it him? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. SWALWELL: So your boss is running for President of the United States. You're one -- you're his personal lawyers. Somebody has offered to help make him Presid6nt, somebody who has worked and conducted business deals with Mr. Trump in the past before, and you never passed that information along to Mr. Trump? MR. COHEN: No, I never showed Mr. Trump this email and I never passed along any of the information to him. MR. SWALWELL: Did you pass it along to Don Jr.? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. SWALWELL: How about Paul Manafort? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. SWALWELL: Did you pass it along to anybody on the Trump campaign team? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. SWALWELL: Did you tell anybody in the world about this email? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. SWALWELL: Why not? MR. COHEN: Because I considered it to be Felix again being a salesman, I considered it noise. I was only concentrating on the Trump Moscow proposal. MR. SWALWELL: Did you tell the FBI that Felix was suggesting that - MR. RYAN: Could you lay a predicate that he's spoken with the FBI? MR. SWALWELL: Have you been interviewed by the Special Counselwith UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENS]TIVE PROPERTY OF THE LNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES JJ UNCLASSIFIED, COMM]TTEE SENSITIVE respect to -- MR. RYAN: No, you're not going to ask that question. He's not testifying about his dealings with the Special Counsel. MR. SWALWELL: Are you asserting a privilege? MR. RYAN: No, I'm not asserting any privilege. You need to lay a foundation like a proper lawyer here. Lay a foundation to your question. MR. SWALWELL: Maybe one day I will be a proper lawyer like you, sir. But right now l'm asking Mr. Cohen, have you been interviewed by the Special Counsel with respect to your dealings with respect to Mr. Trump and the Russians? MR, RYAN: I consider it totally inappropriate to be asking about the actions of the executive branch conducting a criminal case. You may answer. I think it's totally improper. And if you're treating witnesses like that, invading the space of the independent counsel, you're out of line. Go ahead and answer. MR. COHEN: No. MR. SWALWELL: Mr. Cohen, did you tellthe FBl, after you received this email from Mr. Sater, that Mr. Sater was suggesting that a foreign government could interfere in our election? MR. COHEN: Sir, I've never been contacted by the FBl. MR. SWALWELL: No, but did you take it upon yourself to go to the FBI and tell them that Mr. Sater was suggesting that a foreign government could interfere in our election? MR, COHEN: No, sir. UNCLASSfFIED, COMM]TTEE SENSIT]VE PROPERTY OF THE I.INITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 94 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE MR. SWALWELL: I'll pass it back to you. We've got more questions. MR. RYAN: I think it is probably time to take a short break. MR. CONAWAY: Yes, we're done on our side. MR. SWALWELL: OkaY. IRecess.] MR. CASTRO: We're going to come back to the letter of intent on that Moscow project, MR. COHEN: l'm so sorry. MR. CASTRO: We're going to come back to that letter of intent in a second. We're lining up the emails to that when I ask you about the emails you can take a look at them. MR. COHEN: Sure. MR. CASTRO: All right. But for now let me ask you about some trademarks. ln late 2016, the Russian Government approved the extension of six trademarks held by The Trump Organization. Four of the trademarks, all of which were related to hotet and branding efforts in Russia, were officially finalized on November 8th, 2016, election day. These trademarks were originally filed between 1996 and 2007 when Donald Trump was working to build hotels in Russia. Were you involved in obtaining Trump Organization trademarks in Russia? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. CASTRO: So no legal work associated with any of that? MR. COHEN: No. There was a trademark attorney that worked with outside counsel. UNCI.,ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE T-INITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 95 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE MR. CASTRO: Do you know who that attorney was? MR. COHEN: I don't -MR. CASTRO: Was he on the legal staff of The Trump Organization? MR. COHEN: Outside counsel MR. CASTRO: Oh, so no inside person? MR. COHEN: No, sir, not at that time period MR. CASTRO: Do you know the law firm by chance? MR. COHEN' I can provide that to you at a later date. MR, CASTRO: Okay. Thank you Do you know which Russian officials or government agents or anyone in Russia assisted in securing the extensions? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. CASTRO: And do you know why the trademarks - why they didn't just lapse or why The Trump Organization did not allow these to just lapse? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. CASTRO: Okay. Or why they were renewed? Any knowledge on why they were renewed? MR. COHEN: Sir, I didn't work with trademarks at The Trump Organization. MR. CASTRO: Okay. ljust need to ask because we need to be comprehensive. All right. Some questions on financial interests in Alfa Bank. Do you have any financial investments or interests in Russian banks? MR. COHEN: No. MR. CASTRO: Have you ever received personal or business loans from a UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITTVE PROPERTY OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE 96 Russian bank? MR. COHEN: No. MR. CASTRO: From any Russian individuals? MR. COHEN: Can we be clear? Are you talking about -- MR. CASTRO: I'll ask it. MR. COHEN: -- Russian Americans who are of former Soviet Union or are you talking about people who -MR. CASTRO: Russian citizens first, active Russian citizens? MR. COHEN: No. MR. CASTRO: Any Russian Americans or Americans of Russian descent? MR. COHEN: Not that I'm aware. MR. CASTRO: ls there a reason for hesitation on a yes or no there? MR. RYAN: lt's loans and it's U.S. citizens who have a Russian heritage, that's the question, and you answered no. MR. CASTRO: Well, he said he's not aware, right? You're not aware? MR. COHEN: Correct. Let me rephrase ttlR. CASTRO: Okay. lf you look figure that out and reporting it. I do not believe so. - would you do us the favor of trying to - MR. COHEN: Can I ask you to the time period that you're referring? MR. CASTRO: Let's say, January 2014to the present day. MR. COHEN: Then the answer is no. MR. CASTRO: How about before you're debating it in your mind. that? There must be a reason why I mean -- MR. COHEN: Not -- not that I'm aware. UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENS]TIVE PROPERTY OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 97 UNCLASSIF]ED, COMM]TTEE SENSITIVE MR. CASTRO: Okay. We would just ask if you determine that that - if there is, please. MR. RYAN: As far as I'm concerned, if he 24 hours from now comes up and realizes he gave an answer that is no and he can remember a yes, we're going to correct the record on anything like that. lt's certainly possible. I know -- MR. CASTRO: No, lgot it, Counsel. lgot it. I got it. lgot it. To your knowledge, does Donald Trump have any financial investments or interests in Russian banks? MR. COHEN: I'm not aware. MR. CASTRO: So your answer is not no, only that you're aren't personally aware. MR. COHEN: My answer is I don't believe so, but I'm not aware. MR. CASTRO: Have you overseen any legaltransactions involving Mr. Trump and Russian banks? MR. COHEN: No. MR. CASTRO: Has Donald Trump or The Trump Organization ever received personal or business loans from a Russian bank or from individuals connected with the Russian Government? MR. COHEN: Not that l''m aware. MR. CASTRO: Have you ever had any contact with any individual or entity under U.S. sanctions? MR. COHEN: Unfortunately, I can't answer that question because I don't know which banks are and are not under U.S, sanctions. MR. CASTRO: So as you were interacting with any banks that you may have interacted with in your role as legal adviser to Mr. Trump or The Trump UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSTTIVE PROPERTY OF THE LTNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE 98 Organization, you weren't aware whether a bank may or may not have been under legalsanctions? MR. COHEN: I'm not aware. MR. CASTRO: To your knowledge, did Donald Trump have any such contact before inauguration day? That is, do you know, are you aware if he had any contact with any individual or entity under U.S. sanctions? MR. COHEN: I'm not aware. MR. CASTRO: To your knowledge, did anyone else on the Trump campaign or transition team have such contact? MR. COHEN: Sir, as I said before, I'm not part of the campaign. MR. RYAN: That question has to be re-asked. MR. CASTRO: Okay. lwill re-ask it. To your knowledge, did anyone on the Trump campaign or transition team have any contact with any individual or entity under U.S. sanctions? MR. RYAN: That you're aware of. MR. COHEN: l'm not aware. MR. CASTRO: To your knowledge, has anyone connected to the Trump campaign or transition team failed to report or sought to obscure any financial relationships with Russians or Russian banks? MR. COHEN: I'm not aware. MR. CASTRO: Have you done this, sought to obscure or hide any kind of communications with anybody under sanctions, individual or business entity? MR. COHEN: No. MR. CASTRO: To the best of your knowledge, has Donald Trump? MR. COHEN: Not that l'm aware. UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF TFIE LINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 99 UNCLASSIFTED, COMMITTEE SENSITTVE MR. CASTRO: How about anyone in The Trump Organization? MR. COHEN: Not that I'm aware. MR. CASTRO: Has The Trump Organization or any affiliates taken loans from Deutsche Bank? MR. RYAN: I object on pertinency. Could you tie it up and make it pertinent to the Russia investigation? MR. CASTRO: Sure. There's issues about financing, Russian financing in Deutsche Bank, and The Trump Organization. Some of that has been previously discussed in our other hearings So let me ask the question. MR. RYAN: I'll let you answer it. MR. CASTRO: Has The Trump Organization or any affiliates taken loans from Deutsche Bank? MR. COHEN: I believe so. MR. CASTRO: Do you know when? MR. COHEN: I know Mr. Trump has had a relationship with Deutsche Bank going back many, many years. MR. CASTRO: Do you know the purposes of those loans? MR. RYAN: Hold on. Could you establish that there is a loan as opposed to that he has a relationship with the bank because he hasn't testified - MR. CASTRO: Okay. Well, no, that was my question, has he taken -- affiliates taken loans from Deutsche Bank? MR. COHEN: And I believe lanswered yes. MR. CASTRO: Okay. So what was the purpose of the loan that you know of? UNCLASS]FIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPITESENTATIVES 100 I.]NCLASSIFTED, COMMITTEE SENSfTTVE MR. COHEN: Realestate. MR. CASTRO: Which projects? MR. COHEN: I'm not sure, sir, that I can answer that question. MR. CASTRO: Why is that? MR. COHEN: Because it's personalto Mr. Trump and to each specific project. There could also be partners in those deals. And I don't feel comfortable in discussing which bank or what property they went to Deutsche Bank to discuss. MR. CASTRO: Are you under a nondisclosure agreement not to discuss such matters? MR. RYAN: You may answer and then I have something to say. Every attorney's under a nondisclosure agreement not to disclose his client's secrets. To the extent that he's aware of Donald Trump having a Deutsche Bank loan, if you could ask whether he knew that in his capacity as a lawyer to Mr. Trump or he knew it as a cocktail party conversation. He can testify to the cocktail party, he can't testify to his knowledge about -MR. CASTRO: Well, okay. Let me do this, just because our time is running and we want to get you guys out of here. MR. COHEN: Appreciate it. MR. RYAN: We would like that. MR. CASTRO: Did you work on any deals or loans or anything else between The Trump Organization and Deutsche Bank? MR. COHEN: Yes. MR. CASTRO: Okay. Can you tell us which ones? MR. COHEN: The purchase of a note that was held by Deutsche Bank on UNCI,ASSIFfED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPE,RTY OF THE LI}.IITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES UNCI,ASSIFfED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE 101 a property that Donald Trump Jr. was connected to in North Carolina MR. CASTRO: Do you know what year that was? MR. COHEN: 2014,1 believe. Five minutes, Mr. Castro MR. CASTRO: Five minutes, okay. Thank you. What role did Russian financial support play in securing or play any role in Deutsche Bank loans to The Trump Organization? MR. COHEN: I'm not I aware of any. MR. CASTRO: Okay. Just so we're clear, not aware of any Russian financiers, business people, anybody involved in the deals that involved Deutsche Bank with which you were involved? MR, COHEN: There were none, that I'm aware of. MR. CASTRO: Were you part of any discussion in 2016 regarding Alfa Bank in any context or subject? MR. COHEN: No. MR. CASTRO: Are you aware of any relationship between The Trump Organizations and Alfa Bank? MR. COHEN: Unaware. MR. CASTRO: Okay. We can come back. Let me ask you about some persons of interest here. Michael Flynn. When did you first meet retired general- Lieutenant General Michael Flynn? MR, COHEN: When he became involved with the campaign. MR. CASTRO: When was that, roughly? MR. COHEN: I apologize, I don't recallthe date. UNCI,ASSTFIED, COMMTTTEE SENSITTVE PROPERTY OF THE LINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 702 UNCI,ASSIFIED, COMM]TTEE SENSfTIVE MR. CASTRO: 2015? 2016? MR. COHEN: Some point in time. l'm sorry, I don't -- I don't recall. MR. CASTRO: Well, okay. What were the circumstances of your meeting, your first meeting, how did you come to know him? MR. COHEN: I was in Mr. Trump's office regarding certain matters that I was discussing with him and I was introduced to General Flynn. MR. CASTRO: At Trump Tower. MR. COHEN: At Trump Tower. MR. CASTRO: And you were also at times a surrogate on television for the campaign. ls that correct? You had a famous exchange with Brianna Keiler. I know that. MR. COHEN: Says who? And I was right. Can you explain your -- how you define surrogate? MR. CASTRO: Well, you were a sunogate. You went on television in the production that your counsel and you sent for the surrogates it looked like. over. You had emails of talking points ls that correct? MR. COHEN: Correct. MR. CASTRO: And you sometimes would go on television. You met up with George Stephanopoulos and had lunch regarding the campaign, I imagine. don't imagine you were talking about Mr. Trump's legal business with George Stephanopou los, right? MR. COHEN: That's correct. I was not speaking about Mr. Trump legal's business with George Stephanopoulos. MR. CASTRO: Okay. So at the time of the November 3rd email that Mr. Swalwellwent over with you, you had had a role in the campaign. UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSIT]VE PROPERTY OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES I 103 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSIT]VE MR. COHEN' No, sir. I was never part of the campaign. I was a volunteer. I elected to go on television. I was never placed - MR. CASTRO: You were paid by the campaign. ls that correct? MR. COHEN: I was not paid by the campaign. MR. CASTRO: But you were still involved with the campaign. You went on television, MR. COHEN: As a volunteer, as a person who knows Mr. Trump, yes. MR. CASTRO: Sure. Okay. MR. COHEN: I believe that's my right. MR. CASTRO: Let me read you this and then we have emails from your production here. How much longer do I have? f Two minutes. MR. CASTRO: ln your July 2017 production to the committee you provided an email from a reporter who appears to have sent you, quote, "computer logs that show 2,700 computer messages or lookups from Alfa to a Trump email receiving server in the last few months," unquote. The email is dated September 28th, 2016. So the activity referred to would have been between June and August? MR. COHEN: I don't recall. lf you have a document I could take a look at? MR. CASTRO: lt Bates stamp No. MDC-H-000019. Ir/R. COHEN: 00019? MR. CASTRO: Could I get through this question, you guys, before y'all take over? UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENS]TTVE PROPERTY OF THE LTNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 104 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE MR. COHEN: Yes. MR. CASTRO: You recallthe emailexchange? IVIR. COHEN: IdO. MR. CASTRO: All right, I could pick up after you guys go. I Mr.Kins. MR. KING: Yeah. I'd just ask one question, going back to the question of Russian Americans. lsn't it a fact that there are many, many, for instance, Soviet Jews living in New York who we even forget they are Russians? I mean after -- since the 1980s on, if somebody asked me how many Russians I have met, I don't consider myself very close to Russians, I'm sure l've had political dealings, business, social dealings. We have -- we have been really overwhelmed by the number of Soviet Jews -- thank God they came the 1980s on. - from So ljust wanted to put that in context, why you may not consider yourself dealing with the Russians. MR. COHEN: lt was actually 1973,1974 when there was the mass exodus out of the Ukraine of Jews. My wife happened to have been one of them at the time when she was approximately 4 years old and came to the country when she was 5, became a citizen, and that was four decades ago. So, yes, we happen to know a good number of individuals in New York and around the country who are of former Soviet descent. MR. KING: I would say particularly in the Brooklyn five towns area. MR. COHEN: Specifically in those areas. MR. CASTRO: Oh, back to me? MR. RYAN: So here is what we are going 1S-minute block, we are going to stand up and sit do. Every time you get a new down. l'm going to stand up, UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE TINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 105 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE you're going to stand up, we're going to sit down again, just so we know we are starting again. You're going it to concentrate on listening to the question. MR. CASTRO: Thank you. All right. Back to my questions on the email that we just gave over to you. The email goes on to say that, quote, "Hardly anyone besides Alfa used this particular server." Did this email concern you? MR. COHEN: It concerned me. MR. CASTRO: And what actions did you take in response? MR. COHEN: Myself, along with others at The Trump Organization, started to investigate. And what we found is that it was not a Trump Org server, it was an outside seruer that was sending emails. And I believe it was the server that correlated to the Trump hotels server. So for all we know, it was spam coming into Trump hotels or it was somebody from Alfa Bank who may have stayed at one of the various Trump hotels. And we were sending out * MR. CASTRO: Let me ask you, Alfa Bank was sending messages over or receiving messages from some other seruer that was in Trump Tower? MR, COHEN: lt was not in Trump Tower. MR. CASTRO: Okay. Where was it? MR. COHEN: I believe it was offsite. MR. CASTRO: Where, do you know? MR. COHEN: I -- I don't, That would be - MR. CASTRO: So you never determined where this server was? MR. COHEN: lt was a third-party server that ran the site for the Trump hotels collection. MR. CASTRO: And who would that be? Who was that third party? IINCLASSIFTED, COMMITTEE SENSITTVE PROPERTY OF THE L]NITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 106 I.]NCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE MR. COHEN: I don't recall. I can get that for you. That was being handled by the lT department. MR. RYAN: lt is the lT department, lT company that was -MR. CASTRO: Well, whoever was exchanging messages back and forth or receiving or sending messages to Alfa Bank server. So whoever that third party is. back and Or how about this? Anybody associated with those transactions at all forth. All right? MR. RYAN: No, but we can take it up later. MR. CASTRO: Okay. MR. RYAN: I will work with your staff on it to figure out how we can help you. MR. CASTRO: Atl right. Sergey -- let me ask you again about some more folks. Actually back to Michael Flynn. Did you work with him regularly? MR. COHEN: I didn't work with Michael Flynn. Michael Flynn was part of the campaign. I was not. MR, CASTRO: Well, you were stillvolunteering for the campaign, which you said earlier. So how much did you interact with him during the Trump Presidential campaign? MR. COHEN: I would talk to him when I would see him in the hallways? MR. CASTRO: How often was that about? MR. COHEN: Sometimes on a daily basis. MR. CASTRO: Did you discuss the matter of Mr. Trump and Russia? MR, COHEN: No, sir. MR. CASTRO: With Michael Flynn? UNCLASSITIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE LINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES UNCLASSTFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE L07 MR. COHEN: No. MR. CASTRO: Were you aware of any connections to Russia that he had? IVIR. COHEN: No. MR. CASTRO: At the time that he joined the Trump campaign or aftenalards, was the Trump campaign, as far as you know, aware of Lieutenant General Flynn's travel to Moscow to speak at the RT gala in December of 2015? MR. COHEN: l'm sorry, sir. Can you ask that question again? MR. CASTRO: At the time that he joined the Trump campaign or aftenuards, was the Trump campaign aware of Lieutenant General Flynn's travel to Moscow to speak at the Rf gala in December of 2015? MR. COHEN: I'm not aware of any information that the Trump campaign would or would not have known. Again, I was not part of the campaign, MR. CASTRO: When did you first meet Sergi Millian? MR. COHEN: I never met Sergi Millian. MR. CASTRO: Were there email exchanges between you and Sergi Millian in what was produced? MR. COHEN: Yes, there are were. MR. CASTRO: Okay. When did you first start corresponding with Sergi Millian? MR. COHEN: Sergi Millian contacted my office as a blind call and began to make certain statements about who he is and what he's done for Trump in the past. He also continued by talking about running a seminar or a meeting somewhere in Switzerland and he wanted Mr. Trump to come to Switzerland, as well as becoming part of the media support for the campaign. UNCLASSIFIED, COMMTTTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE LTNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 108 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE MR. CASTRO: Did you relay - any information that he communicated to you, did you relay that to Donald Trump? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. CASTRO: How about anyone in Donald Trump's family? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. CASTRO: Anybody in the Trump campaign? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. CASTRO: So you never passed along Sergi Millian's messages? MR. COHEN: Not that I recall. MR. CASTRO: Have you -- when was the last time you communicating with Sergi Mitlian? MR. COHEN: When I emphatically stated to him in an knows you. email: Nobody You've never had any relationship to Mr. Trump. The allegations you claim as being someone who sold real estate for hirn in Florida is an absolute lie. You're one of -MR. CASTRO: Was that email -MR. COHEN: You're one of millions of Russians who support Mr. Trump. And finatly, I told him if he doesn't stop contacting me, that l'm going to have the authorities reach out. This email exchange to him, I told him, nobody is interested. Mr. Trump is not going to Switzerland. Nobody wants you as a surrogate. MR. CASTRO: Did you produce that to this committee, that email exchange? MR. COHEN: Again, I'm not in control of any of these documents. So whatever was produced by my counsel. UNCI,ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES UNCLASSfFIED, COMMTTTEE SENSITTVE 109 MR. CASTRO: Okay. MR. RYAN: Sir, we think we did. MR.CASTRO: Okay. We'lldouble-check. MR. RYAN: lt would have been in the first batch, but we'll check too. MR. CASTRO: How about Erik Prince, have you ever met Erik Prince? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. CASTRO: Has he ever reached out to you or tried to contact you for anything? MR. COHEN: Not that I recall. MR. CASTRO: Do you know Mr. Trump's relationship with Erik Prince? MR. COHEN: No, sir, ldon't. MR. CASTRO: Have you described -- discussed Erik Prince with Mr. Trump? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. CASTRO: How about Thomas Barack, have you ever met Thomas Barack. MR. COHEN: Tom Barrack, yes. MR. CASTRO: Tom Barrack, I'm sorry. When did you first meet him? MR. RYAN: Sir, is there a nexus to Russia in allof this? MR. CASTRO: Again, to the leverage that may be -- any influence that may be used by folks associated with Russia or Russian agents. MR. RYAN: I have no idea who Tom Barrack is. So if you could offer why you think it's pertinent to the subject. MR. CASTRO: We'll come back to him. MR. COHEN: I've known Mr. Barrack for many years. UNCLASSIFTED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE LTNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE MR. CASTRO: Well, he seems to know him, so tvlR. 110 - RYAN: I have no doubt he knows him. MR. CASTRO: Well, he's answering the question. MR. RYAN: What does that have to do with the Russia investigation? MR. CASTRO: So what is your relationship with him? MR. SCHIFF: Counsel, we have information in the course of our investigation we're not going to share with you. So unless you're asserting a privilege, your client needs to answer the question. MR. RYAN: The Supreme Court says that you have to tellme how it's pertinent? MR. SCHIFF: No, we don't have to tellyou how it's pertinent, Counsel. You have a right to assert a privilege if there is an applicable privilege. That is the length and breadth of your right here. MR. COHEN: I do not know. MR. CASTRO: Okay. I'm going to go back to the -- how much time to I have on this one before we stand up again. I Sixminutes. MR. CASTRO: All right. I'm going to go back to the letter of intent on the Trump Tower in Moscow. We've tried to line up the emails for you guys. So when I reference an email if the staff could then turn it over to counsel and Mr. Cohen. All right.' l'm going to go to the - MR. COHEN: I'm sorry, if you wanted to ask me the question about Tom Barrack, l'm happy to answer it for you, just so that we stay in some form of semblance in the transcript. UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE T'NITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 111 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITTVE MR, CASTRO: Oh, thats fine. I have to get through this letter of intent stuff. MR. COHEN: Sure. MR. CASTRO: Mr. Sater -- on October 12th, 2015, Mr. Sater emailed you about a person named Andrey Kostin who is Putin's top finance guy and the CEO of the second largest bank in Russia. According to the email, Mr. Kostin has indicated that he would finance Trump Moscow. Mr. Sater goes on to say that, quote, "Now allwe need is Putin on board and we're golden. ttlleeting with Putin and top deputy is tentatively set for the 14th." Who is Andrey Kostin? MR. RYAN: Sir, this is an area that's been asked and answered already in this proceeding. I'll let him answer again, but we've actually gone over this ground already. lt's -MR, CASTRO: Well, we actually --we -- that's when we cut off earlier. We started * MR. RYAN: Go ahead. It/R. CASTRO: So Andrey Kostin? MR. COHEN: I'm so sorry, Congyessman, you had a very long statement that was there? MR. RYAN: Ask the question. MR. CASTRO: Who is Andrey Kostin? Do you know? MR. COHEN: ldo now, yes. MR. CASTRO: Who is he? MR. COHEN: He is the head of WB Bank. MR. CASTRO: Did you meet him at any time? UNCLASSIFIED, COMMTTTEE SENSITTVE PROPERTY OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES T]IVCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE 1L2 MR. RYAN: Asked and answered. Go ahead and answer. MR. COHEN: No. ttIR. CASTRO: Did you ever discuss with Mr. Kostin the potential financing of Trump Tower Moscow? MR. RYAN: Asked and answered. Go ahead and answer it again. MR. COHEN: No, sir. We never got to that point in the life of the Trump Moscow proposal. The very first thing that I was looking for from the licensee was the site that we were going to place the Trump Tower property on. MR. CASTRO: Okay. MR. COHEN: We wanted to see ownership and control. Without that, there was never a need to even discuss financing because you didn't know what you were going to finance. You didn't know how big a building on that specific site could be. And then it would go on and on and on. MR. CASTRO: Let's walk through some questions on this letter of intent. All right? MR. RYAN: Could we put the letter of intent in front of him? MR. CASTRO: Yes, we have that letter. MR. RYAN: I have a copy here that I can put in front of him, if you want. MR. CASTRO: The letter of intent appears to have been signed on October 28th, 2015. Does that sound correct? MR. COHEN: One second. I'm sorry. MR. RYAN: Hold on, sir. MR. COHEN: I'm sorry. MR. RYAN: Give you back you book as well. MR. CASTRO: Thank you. UNCLASSIFIED, COMMTTTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE LNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 113 UNCI,ASSIF]ED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE MR. COHEN: Thanks. l'm sorry, the question again was? MR. CASTRO: lt appears to be signed -- the letter of intent appears to have been signed on October 28th, 2015. Does that sound correct to you? MR. COHEN: Correct, MR. CASTRO: All right. I'd like to walk through the letter of intent and make sure we understand what this deal entailed. On the front page, the top of the page says, "Trump Acquisition LLC." ls this LLC a subsidiary of The Trump Organization? MR. COHEN: Yes. MR. CASTRO: Halflruay down that front page, licenser, that would be the Trump -- that would be Trump Acquisition? ls that right? MR. COHEN: And/or one or more of its affiliates. MR. CASTRO: Licensee, the organization purchasing the license is, quote, "1.C. Expert lnvestment Company and/or one or more of its affiliates." ls that correct? MR. COHEN: That's what it says. Yes. MR. CASTRO: On page three, quote, "license fees -- licensees shall pay the licensor certain nonrefundable license fees as set forth on schedule two attached hereto." So let's turn to schedule 2, which appears to be attached. Schedule 2. All right. Now, schedule 2 appears to be a list of the license fees. First is an upfront fee of $4 million, and this fee is followed by gross sales fees. First is 5 percent of gross sales up to $100 million. Thereafter, the fee goes down to 4 percent of gross sales up to $250 million. ls that right? MR. COHEN: Yes, that's what it says. UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSTTTVE PROPER'I'Y OF ]'HE LNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 774 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE MR. CASTRO: lt certainly seems like a lucrative deal. MR. COHEN: Which is why I was interested in the dealtaking place. MR. CASTRO: But it didn't work out in the end. ls that correct? MR. COHEN: Correct. MR. CASTRO: But it if had, it would have been a big profit for Mr. Trump, Trump Organization, MR. COHEN: Yes. MR. CASTRO: Did -- what made you not finally get into this agreement? MR. COHEN: Well, we did have an agreement. We had a nonbinding letter of intent. Why did the deal not come to fruition? MR. CASTRO: Why was this property not -MR. COHEN: Because I had lost confidence in the licensee for months, and you will see that in the documents that were submifted by my counsel to you. For months I had been asking for the same thing over and over and over again: need to see the very first prong of my three-prong requirement, which is the ownership or control over a piece of property that we would be able to brand this five-star project on. We would not have taken some second rate or third rate property. We were looking for a specific location in Moscow. MR. CASTRO: When abouts did you decide that you weren't going to do the deal after all? MR. COHEN: By the end of January of 2017. MR. CASTRO: This is - MR. RYAN: 2016. MR. COHEN: ln2016, l'm MR. CASTRO: sorry. lapologize,2016. Okay. Did you discuss this with Mr. Trump, the project. UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF T}TE, LINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES I UNCLASSIFIED, COMMfTTEE SENSITIVE 115 MR. COHEN: Yes. MR, CASTRO: Did you discuss not going forward with it, when you decided that you wouldn't move fonruard? Did you get his approval? MR. COHEN: Yes. I'm sorry, were you talking about approval to terminate? MR. CASTRO: Yes. MR. COHEN: Did I get his approval to terminate, is that your question? MR. CASTRO: Yes. To not move fonruard with the project. MR, COHEN: No. MR. CASTRO: Well, when was the first time you discussed it with Mr. Trump? MR. RYAN: The termination or the project? MR. CASTRO: The project first. MR. COHEN: lt was prior to, I would say, September of 2015. MR. CASTRO: Did you tell him who was involved in the project, Felix Sater and others? MR. COHEN: The very first conversation I had with Mr. Trump was a brief conversation where I stated to him that I received a proposal. I told him that Felix Sater was acting as the representative of the licensee for this deal. MR. CASTRO: Now, at this point you already know Felix Sater has had legal trouble in the past. ls that correct? MR. COHEN: Legal trouble about three decades ago, yes. MR. CASTRO: What was that legal trouble, as far as you know? MR. COHEN: He had an issue with a brokerage company, and I believe another, which was an assault. UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE TINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 1.16 UNCI,ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE MR. CASTRO: Was Mr. Trump aware of this, as far as you know? MR. COHEN: At which time, sir? MR. CASTRO: When you first discussed this project with him. MR. COHEN: Yes. MR. CASTRO: I MR. COHEN: Yes. MR. CASTRO: Was Mr. Trump aware of that? MR. RYAN: Hold on, sir. MR. COHEN: I'm is sorry. You're right. You're right. My time frame is off, allwrong. You're right. You're right. Let me rephrase. I need to correct that answer. MR. CASTRO: Let me ask - okay, go ahead and correct it. MR. COHEN MR. CASTRO: So let me ask you to be clear, because we've gotten confl icting answers here. ls that correct? MR. COHEN: That's correct. MR. RYAN: That's how he leamed of it initially. He may have learned more about it later. MR. CASTRO: He said he had a conversation later on with Mr. Sater about it in our previous - his previous testimony. All right. How often did you describe this Trump Tower Moscow project with Mr. ITNCI,ASSIFIED, COMTV1ITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERry OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 1L7 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE Trump? MR. COHEN: I spoke to Mr. Trump about the project on three occasions. MR, CASTRO: Okay. So the first occasion, what was the conversation? MR. COHEN: When I had received a proposal. MR. CASTRO: And what did you tell him about it? MR. COHEN: This conversation is not privileged. This conversation was a very brief conversation where I explained to him that Mr. Sater claims that there's an opportunity in Moscow to develop what would be the tallest building in the world. lt would compromise -- constitute -- three parts to it would be commercial, hotel, and then residential on top. MR. CASTRO: Was that the entirety of the discussion? MR. COHEN: Pretty close to it, yes. MR. CASTRO: Did you let him know that anybody else besides Mr. Sater was involved, such as the architect, for example, or anybody else? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. CASTRO: The second time that you spoke with him about it, what was the nature of that conversation? MR. COHEN. lt was the execution of the nonbinding letter of intent. MR. CASTRO: Did Mr. Trump sign that? MR. COHEN: Mr. Trump signed the nonbinding letter of intent. MR. CASTRO: When was that? MR. COHEN: According to the document, October 28th of 2015, lt's on or about this October 28th date? MR. CASTRO:. And what was the nature of the conversation that you had with Mr. Trump? UNCLASSIFIED, COMMTTTEE SENSTT]VE PROPERTY OF THE L,NITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENI'ATIVES UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE 118 MR. COHEN: There is -- MR. RYAN: A portion of this conversation is privileged. He can tell you the nonprivileged part and point you to the privileged - MR. CASTRO: For the privileged portion, please explain which privilege you're asserting. MR. RYAN: Attorney-client privilege. MR. CASTRO: Attorney for The Trump Organization or for Trump personally? MR. RYAN: No, for The Trump Organization. MR. CASTRO: But not for Trump personally? MR. RYAN: Not for Mr. Trump personally. MR. CASTRO: Okay. All right. What was the nature of the conversation? MR. COHEN: I described to him the economics of the deal, the fact that the deal is a nonbinding letter of intent, we're not obligated to do anything. lt just gives me the opportunity to receive the documents from Mr. Sater in order to try to bring this project to fruition. frIR. CASTRO: Did he ask you any questions about it that you can discuss? MR. RYAN: Don't describe any privileged conversation. MR. COHEN: Only about the various terms in the LOl. MR. CASTRO: Did he ask you any of the personalities involved, not the legal stuff but the personalities involved? MR. COHEN: No, sir. So allthree of these communications took place in Trump Tower, in his office. I had been in his office for communications with Mr. UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 119 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE Trump regarding other matters as well. So this was also what I would characterize as a very brief conversation. MR. CASTRO: And on the third occasion, can you describe the nature of that conversation? MR. COHEN: That's when I expressed to Mr. Trump that I had terminated the agreement. MR. CASTRO: When abouts was that? MR, COHEN: The end of January of 2016? MR, CASTRO: But you had just said shortly before that now would be a perfect time to do this. MR. RYAN: To be clear, that was in December and he's talking about the end of January. MR. CASTRO: Sure. So December of 2015 you say now's the time in an email which you went over. And then by the end of January it's terminated. The holidays are included in that time. MR. COHEN: Correct. MR. CASTRO: So what happened during that period? MR. COHEN: I continued to make the request for information regarding the property. MR. CASTRO: Request from Felix Sater? MR. COHEN: That's correct, from Mr. Sater. MR. CASTRO: Only Felix Sater? MR. COHEN: Only Mr. Sater, for proof of ownership or control over a piece of property, a statement that Mr. Sater had been telling me was forthcoming going back to almost the inception of this proposal. I never received it and UNCLASSTFfED, COMMITTEE SENSITTVE PROPERTY OF THE LTNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESEN'1'ATIVES I t20 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSTTIVE began to lose both patience as well as confidence that there was actually a piece of property. MR. CASTRO: Let me ask you, did you ever come to an understanding as to why he was never able to deliver that? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. CASTRO: Did you ever have a subsequent conversation with him after this thing was terminated about what happened, how did it fall apart? MR. COHEN: I never asked him that question. I terminated the agreement and I didn't want to speak to him about it again. MR. CASTRO: All right. Let me ask you some more here. You provided a statement to this committee elaborating on this project and. why the Trump Org did not proceed. ln your statement you said that, quote, that you, quote, "performed some initial due diligence to assess whether the Trump Tower Moscow proposal aligned with The Trump Organization's strategic business interests." During what timeframe did you conduct the due diligence? MR. COHEN: From the receipt of the initial communication with Mr. Sater, up and through December of 2016lJanuary 2017, somewhere in that timeframe. MR. CASTRO: ln this due diligence, how did you - MR. COHEN: Sorry, 2016 to 2015. lVlR. CASTRO: Please restate that to make the record clear. MR. COHEN: I'm sorry. MR. RYAN: We need to slow down. You need to slow down. He needs to slow down. But I can't control him, I can't controlyou. You need to slow down. UNCI,ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE TINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 12L UNCLASS]FTED, COMMITTEE SENSTTIVE MR. CASTRO: I'm going to keep at my own pace. MR. COHEN: Sorry. lt was somewhere from the inception of 2015 all the way through, I would say, January of 2016. MR. CASTRO: Okay. MR, COHEN: Sorry. I don't know what it is with me and dates today. MR. CASTRO: What alldoes this due diligence include? Who else did you reach out to? Who else did you have conversations with about this, besides Felix Sater and the architect? MR. COHEN: Mr. Sater had at one or two occasions put on the phone Andrei Rozov, who was the CEO of LC. Expert lnvestment Company. MR. CASTRO: Did you think that he was a fraud? MR. COHEN: I had no reason to believe he was or he wasn't. All I was interested in is obtaining the information that I wanted, which was the ownership or control of a designated piece of property. MR. CASTRO: Now, on November 18th you emailed Dmitry Klokov, copying lvanka Trump, and said, quote -- if you all want to find -- we have that emailform here -- November 18th, 2015. MR. RYAN: I actually have one too. Hold on, sir. There's actually two exchanges. Which one do you want to ask about? MR. CASTRO: fhey're both on Noveinber 1sth -- November 18th,2015. MR. RYAN: No, that's not correct. Hold on a second. MR, CASTRO: There is one November 18th and November 19th. MR. RYAN: There's four blocks, Klokov, Cohen, Klokov, Cohen, MR. CASTRO: We'll discuss those emails, so I assume you have them in front of you. UNCLASSIFIED, COMMTTTEE SENSITfVE PROPERTY OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENS]TIVE November 18th, 2015, you emailed Dmitry Klokov 722 - MR. RYAN: We're going to review them realquick? MR. COHEN: Yes, sir. MR. CASTRO: The second Page * MR. RYAN: Read the second Page. I apologize, Mr. Castro. MR. CASTRO: No problem. MR. COHEN: OkaY, sir. MR. CASTRO: All right. So is the letter of intent referred to in this email the same one you had sent to Mr. Sater on November 3rd? MR. COHEN: November 18th? MR. CASTRO: Well, let me read the whole thing. So on November 18th, 2015, you emailed Dmitry Klokov, quote, "Dmitry, thank you for your email. As discussed during yesterday's conversation, The Trump Organization is currently under an LOI with a local developer to brand a five-star Trump propefi in Moscow city. lt's always been my intent to come to Moscow in the very near future to discuss locations with the localdeveloper as well as other items. I would gladly meet with you and your contact in Moscow to discuss setting up the meeting between our two individuals." Who are the two individuals you're referring there? MR. COHEN: First, Congressman, the email below is actually the beginning of the email chain of Dmitry Klokov to me and mine is therefore a response. MR. CASTRO: Okay. But who are the two individuals that you reference there? UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSIT]VE PROPERTY OF THE LNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 123 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMTTTEE SENS]TTVE MR, COHEN: President Putin and Mr. Trump. MR. CASTRO: So you discuss setting up a meeting between President Putin and President Trump? MR. COHEN: Only in the event that a deal had been reached, that definitive documents had been produced. And it would be something that Mr. Trump has done almost consistently in the past, for a groundbreaking ceremony. MR. CASTRO: At the time you sent this email on November 18th, 2015, is it fair to say that you were still serious about the Trump Tower Moscow project? MR. COHEN: Yes, sir. MR. CASTRO: So this was -- this was less than 2 weeks after the November 3rd email with Felix Sater where you guys talk about Putin helping win the election for President Trump? MR. COHEN: No, sir. lt was Mr. Sater who made those statements, not me MR. CASTRO: Well, you read it. MR. COHEN: I read many things, sir. That's not my words. Those are his words. MR. CASTRO: You read the email. MR. COHEN: I read the email, yes. That doesn't mean that I agree with him or that they should be attributed to me either. MR. CASTRO: So less than 2 weeks later you in another exchange with Dmitry Klokov where you're talking about setting up a direct meeting between President Trump and President Putin. MR. COHEN: Sir, I think you're reading it inaccurately. So if I might IIIR. CASTRO: I'm asking a factual question. UNCLASSTFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITTVE PROPERTY OF THE LINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES - IINCLASSIFfED, COMM]TTEE SENSITIVE 124 MR. COHEN: lt's not factual, it's inaccurate. I received a communication from Dmitry Klokov, who was a Russian Olympian in weightlifting. And like many Russians when they hear of a significant opportunity, they talk about their relationships to either Putin or somebody else in the government to show their abilities, because this, like all projects, would require government intervention. And he talks to me in his emailand makes many, many statements about Mr. Trump and the campaign and becoming President and meetings and so on. And my response to him, which is what you're referring to, is thank you for your email. And as discussed during yesterday's conversation, I'm currently under an LOI with a local developer to brand a five-star Trump property in Moscow city. So my intent was solely about the Trump Moscow proposal. What anyone else was talking about, that's their interest and that's their desire. I was solely focused on a Trump Moscow proposal and nothing more. UNCI,ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE L]NITED STATES HOUSE, OF REPRESENTATIVES 125 UNCI,ASS]F]ED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE [1:17 p.m.] MR. CASTRO: I understand your statement and your position. l've pointed out two factual points there, that you read an email from Felix Sater and that you were in an email exchange less than 2 weeks later with Dmitry Klokov, and we've gone over what that exchange says. MR. COHEN: Felix Sater, sir, was not involved with Dmitry Klokov. MR. CASTRO: I need to ask my question. Okay. MR. RYAN: But you're trying to take an inference of the two emails, and he's rejecting that. So if you want to ask a factual question MR. CASTRO: He's already said that. I get that. * Okay. So did you -- MR. KING: There's a vote on now. So I guess what time do you want to -- I think they're about 3, 4 minutes into the vote. MR. CASTRO: We'llcome back. MR. SCHIFF: Maybe when there's 5 minutes left, we'llvote and come back. MR. KING: We'll come back. Five minutes from your time? MR, SCHIFF: We'll let you know. MR. CASTRO: After the November 3rd, 2015, email exchange - or the email you received from Felix Sater, did you have a followup phone conversation with him about that or communicate with him in any other way about that November 3rd, 2015, email that he sent you that you said you read? MR. COHEN: I don't recall. MR. CASTRO: So if we were to take a look at your phone logs, do you UNCLASSIFTED, COMMTTTEE SENSIT]VE PROPERI'Y OF THE LINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES t26 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE know whether there would be a telephone number that was dialed or received from Mr. Sater? MR. COHEN: I don't know the answer to that. MR. CASTRO: Okay. You also mention that this email, the November 1Bth, 2015, email, that in this email that it had always been your intent to, quote, to go to, quote, "Moscow in the very near future, discuss locations with the local developer as well as other items." MR. RYAN: lf your question is, does it say that, the answer is yes. But what's the question? MR. CASTRO: Does it say that? All right. The next day -- MR. COHEN: Then the answer is Yes. MR. CASTRO: l'm giving you the context. The next day, on November 19th, you responded to an email from Dmitry Klokov in which Klokov questions whether your previous emailwas your position or Trump's position. You responded that, quote, you speak "only on behalf of Mr. Trump." What did you mean by that comment? Sir, you responded that you, quote, you speak, quote, "only on behalf of Mr. Trump." What did you mean by that comment? MR. COHEN: That I have the authority to respond to his request. MR. CASTRO: Looking at the note to which you replied, Mr. Klokov thanked you for explaining your position and then asked, quote: "Forgive me for asking, but is it your client's position?" So by your response that you only speak on behalf of Mr. Trump, is it accurate to say that the position you outlined in the email would, in fact, be Mr. Trump's position? UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITTVE PROPERTY OF TFIE LTNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 127 UNCI,ASS]FIED, COMMTTTEE SENSIT]VE MR. COHEN: I rejected Mr. Klokov's request for a meeting between Mr. Trump and President Putin, and he's challenging my authority within which to make that statement to him. MR. CASTRO: So were you speaking for Donald Trump, as you suggested in the email? MR. COHEN: I was speaking on behalf of Mr. Trump, yes. MR. CASTRO: All right. And is that the case whenever you act in your capacity with The Trump Organization? MR. COHEN: I can't answer that question, sir. MR. CASTRO: What do you mean? Why not? MR. RYAN: lt's too broad. MR. COHEN: lt's so broad, ljust don't know where you want me to -MR. RYAN: He's a lawyer. He responds to his client's wishes when it's a legal matter. When it's a business matter, as it is a different one, he's -MR. CASTRO: Counsel, he's got to give that answer, not you. MR. RYAN: I apologize. I was explaining the concern about the question lf you'd ask another question that's in the ballpark. MR. CASTRO: Allright. Let's move on, because time is running short. December 17th,2015, Cohen emails Sater -- emails you -Google alert about -- actually, we went through that. - forwarding a He went through that. January gth,2016, lvan Markov emails you. MR. RYAN: Could you show it to him? MR. CASTRO: Sure. lt's Bates stamped number MDC-H-00518. Let me ask you this, just so -MR. COHEN: ljust need one second more, sir. I'm sorry. UNCIJ\SSIFTED, COMMfTTEE SENSITTVE PROPERTY OF THE LINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES UNCLASSIFIED, COMM]TTEE SENSITIVE 128 MR. CASTRO: Well, I'm not going to ask you about that email. All right. Would it be fair to say that the Trump Tower Moscow project failed not for a lack of interest by The Trump Organization, but because the due diligence didn't come through? MR. COHEN: That is correct. The due diligence did not come through. lost confidence in the licensee, and I abandoned the project. MR. CASTRO: Okay. lt's still, if everything -- it would have been a profitable project for him. MR. COHEN: ls that fair to say? Yes. That was my - MR. CASTRO: I'm that was my intention. sorry. lf they had presented a piece of property and proven that they owned it, you would have probably gone forward? MR. COHEN: No, sir. Not just a piece of property. Then it would go to the second prong, which was the ability within which to obtain the necessary permit and zoning requirements. And then the third requirement would need to be met, which is to demonstrate ability to finance the properly. Thai would then bring me to th6 creation ofthe definitivetOcument agreements. So there would be a commercial element to it; there would be what's called an HMA, a hotel management agreement; and then the residential portion of it, at which point in time I would have brought on many more people in order to work on this project. MR. CASTRO: Okay. We have some more questions. Eric. MR. SWALWELL: I want to turn your attention to a July 23rd,2016, email from lvan Markov. Do you have that email? Actually, this is the correct one. UNCI,ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES I 129 UNCLASSIFTED, COMMTTTEE SENSITIVE MR. RYAN: I'm sorry, did you say'16? MR. SWALWELL: July 23rd, 2016, yes. MR. KING: Two minutes to the S-minute bell. MR. SWALWELL: Okay. MR. RYAN: Could I ask what the intention of the committee is vis-d-vis us? MR. SWALWELL: Get lunch. You'll have 20 minutes, right, probably? How many votes? MR. KING: The votes will be a half hour. We have three votes. MR. RYAN: How long do we think we're going to go? MR. SCHIFF: I'm not sure. IRecess.] UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENS]TIVE PROPERTY OF THE LTNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES UNCT,ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE 130 [2:05 p.m.] MR. SWALWELL: All right. We're back on the record. lt's 2 o'clock. And, Mr. Cohen and counsel, thank you for being patient around a series of votes. I had last asked about who Mr. Markov was, and if you could just lay out for us who is Mr. Markov, lvan Markov. MR. COHEN: I don't know. MR. SWALWELL: Okay. But you have reviewed correspondence from an lvan Markov to you on July 23rd,2016? MR. COHEN: Yes. Can I see those documents again? MR. SWALWELL: Yes. MR. COHEN: (Reviewing.) Okay. I'm som7, sir, l'm back. MR. SWALWELL: So you're familiar with a July 23rd, 2}16,email to you from an lvan Markov? MR. COHEN: l've looked at the document. MR. SWALWELL: And when that emailwas sent, had you ever met or talked to in any way Mr. Markov? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. SWALWELL: But he had sent an emailto your email address? MR. COHEN: This is an unsolicited email sent to me by lvan Markov. MR. SWALWELL: And the subject is "great convention, kudos," is that right? MR. COHEN: That is what it says. MR. SWALWELL: And this is - July 23rd is right after the Republican Convention? UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE LINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 131 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSTTIVE MR. COHEN: Correct. MR. SWALWELL: And it says, to start the email in the body of the email, to Donald J. Trump, the boss. ls that right? MR. COHEN: Yes. MR. SWALWELL: And Donald Trump at the time was your boss? MR. COHEN: He was my boss. MR. SWALWELL: And on the second page of the email, there's a paragraph that starts with RlA.RU. ls that right? Do you see that? MR. COHEN: ldo. MR. SWALWELL: AND it says: RIA.RU is a Russian State information agency huge media enterprise which controls RT.com. Do you see that? MR. COHEN: I do. MR. SWALWELL: And it goes on to say that Russia Today, which enjoys hosting General Michael Flynn, who thinks just the way many generals in Russia think. RT picks people who think the way we think. Do you see that? MR. COHEN: I do. MR. SWALWELL: And you had testified earlier that you had no knowledge during the campaign that Michael Flynn had a relationship with RT. ls that correct? MR. COHEN: Correct. MR. SWALWELL: And so this email sent to you on July 23rd, 2016, you were being informed of a relationship between Michael Flynn and RT. ls that right? MR. COHEN: Congressman, it presumes that I actually read it. This is an unsolicited email. And I believe it was Chairman Conaway who asked me the UNCLASSTFfED, COMMITTEE SENSITTVE PROPERTY OF THE TINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE t32 question at the inception of this interview: Do you receive a lot of these emails throughout your workday and can you describe how many? Maybe it wasn't Chairman Conaway. MR. CONAWAY: ltwasl MR. COHEN: I'm sorry, you're right, it *r"I And the answer is, this is one of many, many emails that are sent to me unsolicited by individuals. lf I spent any time reading the plethora of documents sent to me by these sort of individuals, these unsolicited individuals; lwould have absolutely no time to do anything other than read them. MR. SWALWELL: How many, just to your recollection, how many unsolicited emails from Russians did you receive during the campaign? MR. COHEN: Well, I don't know the answer to that, but I'm not sure that this was coming from Russia. lt was coming from, according to the document, a Gmail account. MR. SWALWELL: You would agree that in the email, it would appear from a reading of it that the person is Russian or affiliated with Russia? MR. COHEN: That's assuming, again, sir, that I actually opened it and read it. MR. SWALWELL: Well, I guess how many unsolicited emails that you - you're familiar that you receive unsolicited referenced them. emails, because you just How many of them mentioned Russia during the course of the campaign? MR. COHEN: lt would be the ones that my counsel produced. MR. SWALWELL: And in this email is also a reference to the RNC UNCI,ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE TINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 133 UNCLASSTFIED, COMMTTTEE SENSTTTVE platform with regards to not supplying arms to Ukraine and that it had a huge positive reaction in Russia. MR. COHEN: Tell me, sir, where do you find that? MR. SWALWELL: Sure. That's page 3. Do you see that sentence? MR. COHEN: ldo. MR. SWALWELL: And you're familiar that at the convention there was a platform change that was viewed as preferentialto Russia. Do you recall that narrative in the press? Whether you agree with that - with whether that happened or not, do you recall that that had occuried? MR. COHEN: l'm sorry, sir. One more time, your question? MR. SWALWELL: During the Republican Convention it was -- a platform position that would have supported arming the Ukrainians was pulled from the Republican platform, and it was widely reported. Do you recallthat press reporting? MR. COHEN: I recall it being reported by the press. MR. SWALWELL: And you agree that this email alludes to that when it says: "Some additions to RNC platform with regards to not supplying arms to Ukraine had a huge positive reaction in Russia"? MR. COHEN: That is what it says. MR. SWALWELL: You also see, about three paragraphs down, "Hillary hates Putin much more than Obama or you." Do you see that? MR. COHEN: I do. MR. SWALWELL: And two more paragraphs down: "You could even run for office in Russia and win with this kind of platform." Do you see that? MR. RYAN: Mr. Swalwell, he testified that he never read this at the time. UNCLASSTFfED, COMMITTEE SENSITTVE PROPERTY OF THE TINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 134 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE MR. SWALWELL: Do you see it now? MR. COHEN: I see it now. MR. SWALWELL: Did you ever pass this emailalong to the FBI or any law enforcement authority out of concern that, again, it was a foreign country attempting to coordinate with your boss' campaign? MR. COHEN: No. MR. SWALWELL: I want to turn your attention to a March 1sth, 2016, email, Bates stamped MDC-H-00261, if you want to take a second and read it. MR. COHEN: (Reviewing.) MR. SWALWELL: Mr. Cohen, we're not going to go into Mr. Millian. We've discussed him before. MR. COHEN: Yes. MR. SWALWELL: But this email is from a Sergi Millian to your email address on March 151h,2016. ls that right? MR. COHEN: That is correct. MR. SWALWELL: And in the second sentence, it says to you: "Hi, Michael" -MR. CONAWAY: Excuse me a minute. Have you established if he's read it or not read it first? MR. SWALWELL: Have you read that email now? MR. COHEN: tjust read it, yes. MR. RYAN: I think the Congressman was asking if you'd read it at the time. MR. CONAWAY: Had you read this before today? Do you recall reading it? UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES UNCLASSTFIED, COMMfTTEE SENSITIVE 135 MR. COHEN: I don't recall. MR. CONAWAY: So you might as well give me a copy of it and let me read it back to you. MR. SWALWELL: l'm sorry? MR. CONAWAY: You're questioning, asking him to read something on an email that he doesn't have a recollection waste the time doing that? for. I'm wondering why do we have to Or you can give me a copy of it and let me read it back to you. MR. SWALWELL: I don't understand. We're trying to establish the foundation of whether he -MR. CONAWAY: He hasn't read it, so he doesn't know what's in it. tUR. SWALWELL: Well, he doesn't recall if he read it or not is what he said. MR. CONAWAY: So if he doesn't recallwhat he read, why are you going through the details of asking him to do that? MR. SWALWELL: Because we're creating a record about what he received and what his knowledge .MR. CONAWAY: Ask me what paragraph it is and I'll read it back to you. MR. SWALWELL: But you weren't the witness, sir. MR. CONAWAY: But you're wasting time doing that. MR. SWALWELL: I don't think I'm wasting time. what he knew and then whether it was passed up to MR. CONAWAY: He said he didn't question. He hasn't read it, doesn't I'm trying to establish - know. You asked him that last recall. That was your question. MR. SWALWELL: I think it's fairly establishing that it was him first, UNCI,ASSTFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE LTNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES r,36 UNCLASSIFIED, COMM]TTEE SENSITIVE because I want to make sure that that is the case. Then that he - MR. CONAWAY: You've done that. MR. SWALWELL: happy Okay. lf you want to ask him during your time, I'm MR. CONAWAY: No. We're done. I'm just saying I find it unproductive for you to read paragraphs to him and ask him to read them back to you. MR. SWALWELL: l'm doing it for an important record that I think is being created on this issue. MR. RYAN: lf we could just put the document in the record, the document speaks for itself. MR. CONAWAY: ExactlY. MR. RYAN: He is -MR. SWALWELL: Well, llll let you conduct your side's investigation the way you want to and we'll do ours. MR. CONAWAY: Just know that it's tiresome. MR. RYAN: I have a concern. MR. SWALWELL: lt's what? MR. CONAWAY: lt's tiresome, at best, what you're doing. MR. SWALWELL: Well, there's a lot of documents, sir. MR. CONAWAY: I got you. I understand. MR. SWALWELL: So, Mr. Cohen, the sentence says: "Please feel free to incorporate me in the Russian direction, aS you know I have an insider level knowledge on what is happening in Russia after 10 years of hosting Russian ministers, governors, businessmen, and public leaders." Do you see that? MR. COHEN: I see that. UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE I.INITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 137 LINCLASSIFIED, COMM]TTEE SENSTTIVE MR. SWALWELL: So this is, again, another individual contacting you about Russian support of the campaign. ls that right? MR. COHEN: Congressman, something I had said previously before. Because my emailaddress and my information is readily available on the internet, couple that with my position at The Trump Organization and my profile, because of television and print, my email address was used by many people, whether it's Sergi Millian, whether it was the lvan Markov and others, who, like Klokov and like many of the other people that you will be referring to from the document production, they tried to insert themselves somehow into this campaign, whether it was the Sergi Millian, who says it himself right here, feel free to incorporate me in the Russian direction. lt also with Klokov, who was looking to insert himself into what could have been a financially lucrative project, all of whom claim the same thing - I know this guy, I know that guy, I know this guy -- because they believe that that gives them power and opportunity. MR. SWALWELL: Now, my question is -MR. COHEN: lf I can just answer one more thing. MR. SWALWELL: Go ahead. MR, COHEN: The thing I'm hoping at the end of this interview and at the end of this investigation is that you acknowledge that I exercised really good judgment in terms of all of the communications. I was asked to go to Russia on almost a dozen or half a dozen occasions. I was asked to bring Mr. Trump to Russia. I want to be very clear about never filed for a visa. this. I never I never booked a plane went. I never agreed to ticket. I never booked a hotel. never intended to go unless there was a dealthat had been consummated. UNCLASSIFTED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES go. I I 138 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE MR. SWALWELL: Sir, do you recall any other foreign nationals outside of Russia contacting you about working with the campaign? MR. RYAN: Sir, there is absolutely no basis for you to say -MR. SWALWELL: Sir, again, he can answer. Counsel, counsel, you've been a witness enough today. Let the witness that we subpoenaed answer the question. MR. RYAN: And you're not going to speak over me. MR. SWALWELL: Chair, the relevance here -- sir, You're not -- sir. The relevance here., Chair -- MR. RYAN: The legalobjection. MR. CONAWAY: Let him get his objection. MR. SWALWELL: The relevance here, Chair, is that -- MR. RYAN: I'm not challenging the relevance. MR. SWALWELL: -- they're not being contacted by other countries. They're only being contacted by Russians. And that is relevant. MR. RYAN: There's absolutely no foundation that he's a Russian. You haven't proven it. lf you want to represent that you know because you're on the tntelligence Committee he's Russian, then you have a foundation for that. MR. SWALWELL: We can go back to the foundation game, counsel. MR, RYAN: There's no foundation. MR. SWALWELL: Counsel. Mr. Cohen, you agree in that email he references the Russia direction. ls that right? MR. COHEN: That's what it saYS, Yes. MR. SWALWELL: Okay. Were there any other countries referenced UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERI'Y OF THE LINITED STATES HOUSE. OF REPRESENTATIVES UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSIT]VE 139 unsolicited to you from individuals through the course of the campaign? Was there a British direction that was being offered to you? Was there a Mexican direction being offered to you? Was there an Emirati direction being offered to you? MR, COHEN: I don't recall, and I don't know the answer. The only documents that were produced were pursuant to the agreement between this committee and The Trump Organization for documents that had specific terms to it. What I will say to you is, on a daily basis I would get unsolicited emails from people: You should tell this to Mr. Trump. This would help him in the campaign. This is a talking point for him. I would get these unsolicited emails all the time. MR. SWALWELL: Mr. Cohen, I believe that. I guess my question is, do you recall receiving unsolicited emails referencing countries other than Russia assisting the campaign? We've gone through the ones with Russia. MR, COHEN: I don't recallthat. MR, SWALWELL: Thank you. How many passports have you been issued? MR. COHEN: One, as I stated in my statement. MR. SWALWELL: And that's the passport that we've reviewed and that we went over? MR. COHEN: That is correct, sir. MR. SWALWELL: To your knowledge, has Mr. Trump ever met Vladimir Putin in person? MR. COHEN: I don't know the answer to that. MR. SWALWELL: Has Mr. Trump ever told you about meeting Vladimir UNCIJASSIFTED, COMMITTEE SENS]TIVE PROPERTY OF THE LINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 140 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMTTTEE SENSITTVE Putin in person? MR. COHEN: I don't recall him saying that to me. MR. SWALWELL: Has Mr. Trump ever talked to you about Vladimir Putin? MR. COHEN: Yes. MR. SWALWELL: What did he say? MR. COHEN: Did you see that President Putin said some really nice things about me? MR. SWALWELL: When did he saY that? MR. COHEN: At the time that President Putin made the statement that was recorded in the press. MR. SWALWELL: Other than that statement, do you recall Donald Trump referencing Vladimir Putin to you? MR. COHEN: I don't recall. MR. SWALWELL: Do you know -- do you have any knowledge of Donald Trump talking on the phone to Vladimir Putin? MR. COHEN: I don't have that knowledge. MR. SWALWELL: Who is Rhona Graff? MR. COHEN: [tlr. Trump's executive assistant. MR. SWALWELL: Does Mr. Trump ever send emails? MR. COHEN: Mr. Trump does not have an email address. MR. SWALWELL: So how would I get a hold of Mr. Trump if I wanted to pass a message through someone who worked at The Trump Organization? MR. COHEN: There are multiple ways. MR. SWALWELL: Would Rhona Graff be the most direct way? MR. COHEN: She would be one way. UNCLASSfFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES L4l UNCLASS]FIED, COMMITTEE SENSTTIVE MR. SWALWELL: And if I sent an emailto Ms. Graff, how would that be presented to Mr. Trump if it was someone relevant that he would want to hear from? MR. COHEN: They would print out that email and give it to him. MR. SWALWELL: And what would he do? Would he write on the email and give it back to Ms. Graff, or would he dictate to her what he would like to be sent back? MR. COHEN: Or a combination thereof. MR. SWALWELL: But this is something that you've observed before? MR. COHEN: Yes. l've seen Mr. Trump write on emails and send them back, either to the sender of the ernail or express an interest in how he wanted Ms Graff to respond to the sender. MR. SWALWELL: Has Mr. Trump, in his capacity as President, conveyed to you or your counselthat he would give you a pardon with respect to the Russia investigation? MR. RYAN: So, first of all, you have to divide your question. You can't have me in that question. MR. SWALWELL: To your knowledge, has Mr. Trump conveyed to you or your counsel that you would receive a pardon for your cooperation or your testimony in this investigation? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. SWALWELL: To your knowledge, has Mr. Trump or anyone on his team conveyed that to anybody in the Russia investigation? MR. COHEN: l'm not aware of any communication other than communications to myself. And I want to be very clear. I would never ask Mr. UNCLASSTFIED, COMMfTTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE I.'NITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES UNCLASSIPIED, COMM]TTEE SENSITIVE 142 Trump for a pardon and Mr. Trump would not have offered me a pardon, because I have done absolutely nothing wrong except for be the lawyer who I am for him and for the corporation. MR. SWALWELL: You talked about using Signalearlier. Did you message individuals on the campaign? MR. RYAN: Hold on. Give me 60 seconds. [Discussion off the record.] MR. SWALWELL: Sorry, Mr. Cohen, I can repeat it if you like. MR. COHEN: Yeah, please do. MR. SWALWELL: I said you had mentioned the different apps and messaging devices that you'd used during the campaign, one of them being Signal. And my question was, did you ever correspond with individuals on the campaign using the Signal app? MR. COHEN: I don't believe so, but I don't recall. MR. SWALWELL: Have you ever corresponded with Jared Kushner using Signal? MR. COHEN: I don't recall. MR. SWALWELL: Do you know if Mr. Kushner has a Signal account? MR. COHEN: ldon't. MR. SWALWELL: Donald Jr.? MR. RYAN: I'm sorry, you're going to have to say what the question is. MR. SWALWELL: Sure, MR, RYAN: Please, just for clarity. MR. SWALWELL: Have you ever corresponded with Donald Jr. using Signal? UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITfVE PROPERTY OF THE LINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITTVE 1.43 MR. COHEN: I don't recalldoing that. MR. SWALWELL: How about Ms, Graff? MR. COHEN: That would be a no. MR. SWALWELL: How about Mr. Schiller, Keith Schiller? MR. COHEN: I don't recall, MR. SWALWELL: Do you know if Mr. Schiller has a Signal account? MR. COHEN: ldon't. MR. SWALWELL: How about Mr. Paul Manafort, using Signal? MR. COHEN: No. MR. SWALWELL: Would you communicate at allduring the campaign with Paul Manafort when he was the chairman of the campaign? MR. RYAN: Communication being in person, on the phone, email. Any of thatwould be a communication. MR. SWALWELL: Let's start broadly. MR. COHEN: Have I ever had communication with Paul Manafort is your question? MR. SWALWELL: While he was chairman. MR, COHEN: Yes. MR. SWALWELL: And aside from in-person communications, how would you, if you weren't in his presence, how would you communicate with him? MR. RYAN: Can you establish there's some pertinency, that he ever communicated with him about Russia, about anything associated with Russia, about Ukraine? Let's try and move on to things that are pertinent. MR. SWALWELL: Counsel, I'll conduct the investigation the way that we would like to, not the way -TINCLASSIFTED, COMMTTTEE SENSTTTVE PROPERTY OF THE IINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE MR. RYAN: You are fishing for contacts with him. L44 Manafort was in the Trump circle, so there's going to be contacts. You're not entitled to know all of the contacts with Manafofi. You're certainly entitled to know every one of them that's about the things that are pertinent to what you do. MR. CASTRO: Counsel, you know also in depositions the questions and answers are broader than what actually is admitted into evidence or anything like that. MR. RYAN: But, sir, he's already - I let him answer did he ever talk to Paul-MR. SWALWELL: You didn't let him do anything. He's here under subpoena. So, Mr. Cohen, did you ever speak with Mr. Manafort, other than being in his presence, through a messaging device? MR. COHEN: I don't believe so. MR. SWALWELL: How about just over the telephone? MR. COHEN: I'm certain that I've spoken to him on the telephone. MR. SWALWELL: Did you ever talk to him about any of the allegations regarding the campaign and Russia during the course of the campaign? MR. COHEN: Not that I recall, MR. SWALWELL: Did he ever ask you about the Trump Tower dealthat was being worked up and ultimately fellthrough? MR. COHEN: Not that I recall. MR. CASTRO: Listen, we're trying not to retread ground, so give me a second here. But given your position in The Trump Organization during this period, would you be aware if Mr. Trump had spoken to Vladimir Putin or other UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES UNCI,ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE t4s senior officials or oligarchs in Russia? Given your position, would you be aware if that had happened? MR. COHEN: Sir, can you please identify the time period you're referring to? MR. CASTRO: Since your employment began. MR. COHEN: So that would be 2007. I have never seen Mr. Trump engage with Vladimir Putin on a telephone call. MR. CASTRO: How about in person? MR, COHEN: I have never witnessed Mr. Putin and Mr. Trump together at any given time. MR. CASTRO: ls it fair to say that you're not aware of any communication between Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump? MR. COHEN: No. MR. CASTRO: lt's not fair to say? MR. COHEN: That woutd not be fair to say. MR. CASTRO: So what communication are you aware between the two of them? MR. COHEN: I believe at some point in time Vladimir Putin sent Mr Trump a card. MR. CASTRO: MR. COHEN: MR. CASTRO: MR. COHEN: MR. CASTRO: MR. COHEN: What did the card say? I don't know. lt was a congratulation type card. Was this before or after the election? It was way before the election. Do you know why he sent it? It may have been post the Trump Moscow pageant UNCLASSIFTED, COMM]TTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE LINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES UNCLASSIF'IED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE 746 MR. CASTRO: Are you aware of any conespondence going from Mr. Trump - correspondence or communication going from Mr. Trump to Mr. Putin? MR. COHEN: l'm not aware. I would like to also just add that we've also received cards from Mitt Romney, from many members of both Congress, Senate, as wellas even from President Barack Obama. MR. CASTRO: Okay. Atl right. I'm going to move to a difbrent subject now, Ukraine policy. When did you first meet Andrey Artemenko, the Ukrainian opposition politician? MR. COHEN: I don't recallthe exact date, but I met him at the request of - actually, I apologize. lt was January. MR. CASTRO: On MR. COHEN: 25th of 2017,1 believe. MR. RYAN: On or about. MR. COHEN: On or about. MR. RYAN: On or about. MR. CASTRO: At the request of who? MR. COHEN: At the request of Felix Sater. MR. CASTRO: MR. COHEN: I MR. CASTRO: By this time, the deal for Trump Tower in Moscow has been terminated? MR, COHEN: Yes. MR. CASTRO: What prompted the January meeting with he and Felix Sater at the Lowe's Regency in Manhattan? MR. COHEN: I'm sorry? UNCLASSTFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES I.INCLASSIFIED, COMMTTTEE SENSITTVE L47 MR, CASTRO: What prompted the January meeting between he and Felix Sater at the - MR. COHEN: I don't know the answer to that. I was no longer employed by The Trump Organization, I had resigned at the time that Mr. Trump was inaugurated. MR. CASTRO: What was your employment at that time? MR. COHEN: I did not have employment at the time. Yes, I -- MR. CASTRO: Did you have any other clients? MR. COHEN: I was given the title as personal attorney to the President. MR. CASTRO: I got to sort this out. You said you no longer worked for The Trump Organization. MR. COHEN: Correct. MR. CASTRO: So was Mr, Trump paying you out of his personalfunds? . MR. COHEN: Yes, as his personalattorney. MR. CASTRO: Did you visit the White House? MR. COHEN: I have visited the White House. MR. CASTRO: While Mr. Trump was President? MR. COHEN: While Mr. Trump was President. MR. CASTRO: ln your role as his personal attorney? MR. COHEN: That's correct. MR. CASTRO: So during this meeting, you were his personal attorney? MR. COHEN: I had not been to the White House as of that time period. MR, CASTRO: But you were already his personal attorney? MR. COHEN: That's correct. MR, CASTRO: Okay. Why did they ask you to come to the meeting? UNCLASSIFTED, COMMITTEE SENSITTVE PROPERTY OF THE LTNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 148 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE MR. RYAN: lf you can use something other than the pronoun, just whoever you're talking about. MR. CASTRO: Sure. The meeting between - that included Andrey Artemenko and Felix Sater at the Lowe's Regency, which you were invited to by Felix Sater, why do you believe he reached out to you to invite you? What was your purpose of being there? MR. COHEN: Mr. Sater asked me to meet him and a friend of his. He wanted to discuss with me some opportunities. MR. CASTRO: Businessopportunities? MR. COHEN: I believed that they were business opportunities. And now, free to take on new clients and to explore opportunities of my own, I elected to go. MR. CASTRO: But this is the same man that never came through with that property for the Trump Moscow deal that you basically characterized as a bullshitter. MR. COHEN: That's correct. But he had been successful in other opportunities, including, aS an example, the Trump SoHo project. So while this one did not actually come to fruition, others have. And, as I had previously stated, Mr. Sater is actually pretty successful at putting together. The Lowe's Regency is two blocks from my home. He asked me to meet him over there. I figured, why not? I took a 2-second walk, have a cup of coffee, and see what Felix was asking me to appear. MR. CASTRO: How long did the meeting last? MR. COHEN: Approximately 10 minutes, 12 minutes. MR. CASTRO: That's a quick meeting. MR. COHEN: lt sure was. UNCLASS]FIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE LNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 1"49 UNCLASSTF]ED, COMMTTTEE SENSITIVE MR. CASTRO: What aspects of the plan to lift sanctions against Russia did you discuss? MR. COHEN: He stated to me that by leasing Crimea to Russia, allthe fighting would stop. MR. CASTRO: Who stated this to you, Felix or Andrey? MR. COHEN: Andrey Artemenko. MR. CASTRO: Did he present you with any documents? MR. COHEN: He did not, no. MR. CASTRO: Did he present you with anything? MR. COHEN: Artemenko did not present me with anything. MR. CASTRO: Did Felix Sater present you with any documents? MR. COHEN: Yes. MR. CASTRO: Have you turned those over to us? MR. COHEN: No. MR. CASTRO: Will you please turn them over to us? MR. COHEN: I don't have them. MR. CASTRO: What happened to them? MR. COHEN: I disposed of them. MR. CASTRO; When did you dispose of them? MR. COHEN: Shortly thereafter leaving the Lowe's Regency that day. MR. CASTRO: So, just so we understand, this was a foreign government who was approaching the President's personal attorney to affect major government policy, presented you with documents, which you later threw away. ls that correct? You said you disposed of them. MR. COHEN: First and foremost, Mr. Artemenko is not a foreign UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITTVE PROPERTY OF THE TINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 150 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSfTIVE government. Mr. Artemenko - if you would like, I'd like to give you a little bit of a brief overview of the 10-minute meeting. MR. CASTRO: I still have questions, but go ahead. MR. COHEN: So, as I said, Felix had asked me to meet him at the Lowe's. He was going to introduce me to a friend. MR. CASTRO: Did he say who it was? MR. COHEN: I don't recall him giving me the name, and if he did I didn't know at the time. So I went and I met them. Chocolate chip cookies, coffee. Sat down. I spoke for a few minutes about my son and baseball and what he's doing. He then went into introducing me to Andrey Artemenko, who stated that he was a prime minister in the Ukrainian Government and that he considers himself to be the Donald Trump of Ukraine, he's going to run for the Presidency; then followed by stating to me that -- this is the part that I want to be careful about, about the USAID. MR. RYAN: We're in a closed room. MR. COHEN: So he stated to me at first that he has documentation indicating that USAID to the Ukraine is being stolen, and he has all the information. I said, well, l'm certain Mr. Trump would not be interested in knowing -- well, Mr. Trump would be very interested in knowing that people are stealing money from the United States. MR. CASTRO: Who did he claim was stealing it? MR. COHEN: He did not provide me with any of that information. This is what he claimed. At which point in time I realized that this is not a meeting that belong in. I'm out of my -- l'm out of my -- I'm swimming, I'm out of my UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE LTNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES lane. I I 151 IINCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENS]TTVE had no interest in his political aspirations, and l'm not versed in order to discuss Crimea, Ukraine, Russia. And then he proceeded to tell me that the best way to do it is to lease Crimea to Russia. That's fantastic, was my response to him. They then turned around and asked me if I would give a document to Mr. Trump, at which point I told him that he should mail it to Mr. Trump at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. He said, well, who else do you think that we should mail it to? Well, send it to General Flynn, seemed the right person to do, ai tne same address. Then they asked me if I would take a document with me, because I had already told them that I got to go, I don't have time. MR. CASTRO: Who asked you do that? MR. COHEN: Felix asked me if I would take the document, in case I saw them, if I would give it to them. And that document was either one or two pages in total, because I saw him put it into an 8-112 x 11 envelope. So, to be polite, I took it and I left. The entire meeting was approximately 10, 12 minutes in total, with most of it being talked about personal stuff, including my children. MR. CASTRO: Did you tell anyone about this meeting? MR. COHEN: I did press a day or not. so. Yes, I spoke I don't recall. But it was widely reported in the to The New York Times. MR. CASTRO: Did you speak to anybody - did you speak to Mr. Trump about this? MR. COHEN: I don't recall -- actually, yes, I did, after the article came out. MR. CASTRO: What did you communicate to him about this? MR. COHEN: I had no idea why I took this meeting. I should not have. TINCLASS]FIED, COMMITTEE SENSTTIVE PROPERTY OF THE TINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE,S 152 T]NCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE When I realized I'm swimming in the wrong lane, I picked myself up and I left. MR. CASTRO: Did he fire You? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. CASTRO: Did you discuss that the plan would require the Russian forces withdraw from eastern Ukraine and that Ukraine hold a referendum on whether Crimea should be leased to Russia for 50 or 100 years? MR. COHEN: Not the first part, but the latter part. Mr. Artemenko made it clear that leasing Crimea to Russia would end it. I'm sony, was your question did I discuss that with Mr. Trump? MR. CASTRO: Did you discuss that with anyone? MR. COHEN: No. MR. CASTRO: Well, you just said Artemenko said this to you, MR. COHEN: With Artemenko, yes. I thought you meant anyone other than Andrey Artemenko. lt was his proposal. MR. CASTRO: Okay. I have a few more questions on that, but let me ask you, because you did go out of the employ of The Trump Organization -- on January 20th? ls that fair to say, or was it before that? MR. COHEN: lt was on the 20th. MR. CASTRO: You become Mr. Trump's personal lawyer. Have you ever represented a foreign government? MR. COHEN: No. MR. CASTRO: So no foreign governments as clients ever in your legal career? MR. COHEN: No. MR. CASTRO: Had you ever entertained conversations with anybody or UNCi,ASSIF]ED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE LTNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 153 UNCLASSTFTED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE engage in communications with anyone about representing a foreign government? MR. COHEN: I'm sorry, sir. I don't understand your question. MR. CASTRO: Well, there are people here that lobby for foreign governments, for example -MR. COHEN: I'm not a lobbyist. MR. CASTRO: - like Ukraine. Your attorney is one of them. He just raised his hand. And that kind of work can be very lucrative. And people ordinarily have to register as foreign agents when they do that or are representing a foreign government, right? So did you ever -- were you ever approached about representing any country in front of the administration or in front of Congress? Felix Sater never said, "Hey, do you want to do some work for us," or anybody else never said, "Do you want to do some work for this country or that country"? MR. RYAN: There's way too many questions on the table. Why don't we start with Artemenko and Sater, whether they asked him to be engaged. MR. COHEN: The answer to that was not that I recall. I don't believe so, And if they did, I ignored it. t picked myself up and I left. That was the first and last communication I had with Andrey Artemenko. MR. CASTRO: So they may have offered that, but you don't recall. Maybe they didn't. IVIR. COHEN: I don't believe they did, but at the point when I picked myself up and left, ljust picked myself up and left. MR. CASTRO: Anybody else ever approach you about working for a foreign government? UIVCLASSIFIED, COMMTTTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE MR. 154 RYAN: lt's not pertinent, sir. MR. CASTRO: Well, Paul Manafort, for example. MR. RYAN: No, it's not pertinent. He told you already he didn't accept any representation from a foreign government since he became a lawyer. Who approached him and discussed it - if you want to make it pertinent, ask about Russia, Ukraine, or anything like MR. CASTRO: that. That will be pertinent. Sure. Okay. About Russia, Ukraine, any of the Eastern European countries that have been mentioned in this investigation, has anybody approached you to represent any of those nations? MR. COHEN: No. MR. CASTRO: All right. So just so we're clear on the document that Mr. Sater gave to you, did you give the document to anyone else or show it to anyone else before you disposed of it? MR. COHEN: No. MR. CASTRO: And how did you dispose of it? MR. COHEN: I threw it away, MR. CASTRO: Where? MR. COHEN: I don't recall if I threw it in a garbage pail. MR. CASTRO: At your home? MR. COHEN: At my home or by my home. MR. CASTRO: And when was the last time that you've spoken with Mr. Artemenko? MR. COHEN: That day that I met him at the Lowe's. MR. CASTRO: So no subsequent communications? MR. COHEN: No, sir. UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 155 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSTTIVE MR. CASTRO: One last question on this document. Did you deliver the proposal to then-National Security Advisor Michael Flynn? MR. COHEN: The answer is no. MR. CASTRO: Okay. MR. SWALWELL: Mr. Cohen, have you ever used an alias name? MR. COHEN: No. MR. SWALWELL: How about the name Michael Hacking, any affiliation with that? MR. RYAN: Michael? MR. SWALWELL: Hacking. You're laughing at me. How are you familiar with that name? MR. COHEN: lt's a medallion taxicorporation that I own. lt's actually Sir Michael Hacking Corp. MR. SWALWELL: What does that mean? MR. COHEN: ln New York City, the way it works is Yellow Cabs, you have two medallions per corporation. You own the two medallions and you own them in a corporate name. So I have as one corporation that I own, it's Sir Michael Hacking Corp. By the way, l'm sorry, let me go - the term "hacking" actually means driving around the street picking people up by lifting your hand. They call them cab drivers, but they used to be called hacks. MR. SWALWELL: Got it. And in 2016, four different times you left the country. ls that right? MR. COHEN: n2016? MR. SWALWELL: Yes. UNCI,ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE LINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 156 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE MR. RYAN: Do you know? Do you remember right now how many times you left? MR. COHEN: ldon't. MR. SWALWELL: Would you agree that from July 8th to July 17th, you were in ltaly? MR. COHEN: lwas in ltalY, Yes. MR. SWALWELL: And did you go anywhere else? MR. COHEN: lwas in two locations in ltaly. MR. SWALWELL: Did you ever travel outside of ltaly? MR. COHEN: During that vacation? MR. SWALWELL: Yes. MR. COHEN: No. MR. SWALWELL: And was that a family vacation? MR. COHEN: I was with my wife and friends. MR. SWALWELL: And on October 6th, 2016, you went to London. ls that right? MR. COHEN: Correct. MR. SWALWELL: Why did you go to London? MR. COHEN: My daughterwas studying there at Queen Mary's College. MR. SWALWELL: How long were you in London on that trip? MR. COHEN: A week, 10 days. I don't know exactly. I can get you that information. MR. SWALWELL: Where did you stay? MR. COHEN: I stayed at -- I can get you the name of the hotel. I was in London twice during that time period, so which time you're referring -- UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE III.{ITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 751 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE MR. SWALWELL: Did you leave London? MR. COHEN: No. MR. SWALWELL: What do you mean, you were in London twice? MR. COHEN: So we were there one time for Thanksgiving, and lwas there one time - MR. SWALWELL: I guess, I'm sorry, I meant prior to the election. So on the October 6th transit to London, did you ever leave London? MR. RYAN: Do you recallgoing to London in October of 2016, and do you recall leaving London for another place in the United Kingdom? ls that your question? MR. SWALWELL: Did you ever leave the United Kingdom? MR. COHEN: I did not. And I went in - the October one was my daughter's birthday. MR. SWALWELL: And you said youIUR. COHEN MR. SWALWELL: MR. COHEN: I don't recall the exact number of dates, but I can get that for you. I will send you an itinerary. MR. SWALWELL: Where did you stay? MR. COHEN: I forget the name of the hotel. MR. SWALWELL: Okay. Which part of London was the hotel in? MR, COHEN: Central London. lf you give me a phone and two seconds, I will ask my wife. MR. SWALWELL: ljust want to -- did you stay the whole trip, were you in the same hotel the whole time? UNCI,ASS]FIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 158 UNCLASSTFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE MR. COHEN: The whole time. MR. SWALWELL: And in ltaly, where did you stay? MR. COHEN: We stayed in Capri at a hotel called Quisisana. We were there with a bunch of friends. And we left Quisisana and spent 3 days in Rome. MR. SWALWELL: You mentioned an Alex Weiss is the one who introduced you to Felix Sater MR. COHEN: No. I stated that I had become reacquainted again at a function that Alex Weiss was putting on. MR. SWALWELL: You said he's in the laundry business. What do you mean by laundry business? MR. RYAN: Really. This is totally nonpertinent. we need to move on. think that we'Ve reached a new low, asking about the laundry guy who had a party that he met Sater again at. MR. SWALWELL: Well, Felix Sater is the one who said he could engineer the election for Donald Trump. I think it's pretty pertinent - MR. COHEN: Yes, but, in allfairness, Mr. Weiss has nothing to do with anything he owns. MR, SWALWELL: No, I understand. MR. COHEN: He owns a business that - MR. SWALWELL: When you said laundry, did you mean dry-cleaning clothes or did you mean something else? MR. COHEN: Laundromat, dry-cleaning. MR. SWALWELL: And did you say the name of the fertilizer guy in Russia? MR. COHEN: Dmitry Rybolovlev. UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE LTNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES I 159 UNCLASS]FIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE MR. SWALWELL: Rybolovlev. Did Mr. Trump, to your knowledge, know that Mr. Rybolovlev was Russian? MR. COHEN: I believe he's Ukrainian. MR. SWALWELL: Was he living in Russia at the time of the deal? MR. COHEN: I don't know the answer to that. The deal, as I stated before, was brought to Mr. Trump, I believe it was by Sotheby's lnternational Realty, where he had prior to that placed the propedy on the market. And this gentleman contacted the broker. lt's a normal realestate transaction. MR. SCHIFF: Mr. Cohen, thank you for your time today. ljust have a few followup questions on the basis of your testimony thus far, and then l'll hand it back to my colleagues for any remaining questions they have, but I think we're getting close to the end. I just want to make sure, in terms of the document production to the committee, my colleagues asked about your communications via Signal and Dust and other communication platforms. Have you turned over any of those communications that are pertinent to what - pertinent to the documents that you were requested for from the committee? MR. RYAN: Let me answer. We have not searched those other platforms. I actually didn't see a nexus that there could be responsive material on those other platforms. I'll go back and do that. l'm promising to do all of the platforms that you raised. We'll do it as quickly as we can to figure out if there's anything there that's responsive, and we'll turn it over, The source of the documents we produced to date has been Trump Org documents that related to the Moscow building proposal or anything else that was responsive about Russia in the time period. So we didn't go to look at those IINCLASS]FIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE LTNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 160 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE platforms, because I didn't perceive that there would be responsive materials on them. Whether there are or there aren't, we're going to go search for it and I'll get back to you as promptly as I can. MR, SCHIFF: Thank You, Counsel. And just so that I have clarity on this other document issue, were there communications relevant to the investigation that you have withheld because you believe them to be privileged? MR. RYAN: There are a handful. And, I mean, I think there are less than five documents that have been withheld by the Trump Org to date as they try to resolve privilege issues. I'll work with the general counsel of Trump Org. We will present you either with a document that we have decided is not privileged or with a privilege document log that would give you the necessary information to evaluate the privilege. And I will work with Mr. Garten, who's the general counsel of The Trump Org. The reason I say that, Congressman, is he doesn't control the privilege. The final decision is the general counsel of Trump Org, because they're Trump documents. MR. SCHIFF: Counsel, I understand. l'm also interested, though, whether there are any of your own documents that you haven't turned over that are pertinent that you've withheld because you believe them to be privileged. MR. RYAN: I don't think we have any document that has been withheld other than a Trump Org document. And, again, I've indicated that's a very, very small number. MR. SCHIFF: Okay. Mr. Cohen, can you tell me a little bit more about Bayrock? What is UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSTTIVE L61 Bayrock? Who is involved with Bayrock? MR. COHEN: I really don't know much about Bayrock. The dealwith The Trump Organization for the Trump SoHo project -- and it was Bayrock acted as the intermediary -- occurred prior to my becoming employed by The Trump Organization. I know Felix Sater is or was involved. There's another gentleman -- I don't know his last name, but I believe his first name is Tefik (ph) -- who's also involved. They're a realestate development company. MR. SCHIFF: And let me ask you, just as a matter of your expertise as a real estate lawyer for many years, l've read - and I'm not an expert in this area at all -- that real estate is a profitable area for people interested in laundering money, because of the nature of real estate. Can you explain that to me, why that would be the case? MR. COHEN: I'm not so sure that I actually agree with that statement. Maybe it was 70, 80, 90 years ago, but I don't believe it is now. MR. SCHIFF: Let me ask you -MR. COHEN: To me, it's -- have not heard of anybody showing up to a real estate closing with a satchel of cash, which is I guess what you're alluding to. ln New York, as an example, there are recording taxes. There's flip taxes. the sponsor tax. fees. There's transfer lf you're buying from a sponsor, you usually pick up So real estate closings are not complicated, but generally they're -- you work with a mortgage broker, or if it's a 1031 exchange, you just use it -- use the money from a previous deal. I don't know if I can agree with the statement that you're making, MR. SCHIFF: Let me ask you about the transaction my colleague asked you about earlier, in terms of the purchase of the Florida home for $95 million by UNCI,ASSTFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE LTNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 1.62 UNCLASSIFTED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE Mr. Rybolovlev. That had been purchased 4 years earlier for $41 million' ls that right? MR. COHEN: Correct. I believe it was also out of a bankruptcy. And I believe that Mr. Trump was successful in getting it because he could stroke a check for an amount that had him as the highest bidder. MR. SCHIFF: And do you know how much work or money Mr. Trump put in the property prior to its being sold for more than twice that number? MR. COHEN: I don't know that exact number, no. MR. SCHIFF: And do you know whether Mr. Trump had any other offers to purchase the property between the time of his purchase of it and the sale to Mr. Rybolovlev? MR. COHEN: I don't know the answer to real estate broker would have the answer that. That's something that the to. But remember, in real estate, it only takes one buyer. MR. SCHIFF: I understand that. But it would also be significant if there was only one offer and it was well beyond what anybody else would be willing to pay for the property. MR. COHEN: ln allfairness, sir, the original ask by Mr. Trump on the property was greater than the $100 million that Mr. Rybolovlev ended up paying. MR. SCHIFF: But are you aware of whether there was any other offer for $95 million or $45 million or anything in beMeen? MR. COHEN: I am not aware of that answer. MR. SCHIFF: Tell me, if you would, what you know about Mr. Agalarov. MR, COHEN: I met Mr. Agalarov when I was with Mr. Trump in Las Vegas at the Miss USA Pageant. I know that he owns the Crocus Center in Moscow. UNCI,ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE I.,NITED STATES HOUSE OF RE,PRESENTATIVE.S 163 IINCI.ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE How I ended up meeting him is through his son, who is an aspiring musician and actually entertained at the Miss USA Pageant as a singer. They made a proposal to the Miss Universe organization to host the 2013 Miss Universe Pageant in Moscow at his Crocus Center, which would be similar to the Jacob Javitz Center, except in Moscow And I want to be clear about something. MR. RYAN: lnterpret the Jacob Javitz Center for the people who are not Mr. King. MR. COHEN: I apologize. lt's a convention center in New York. I want to be clear that the decision to go with Moscow was not a Trump decision. So the board of Miss Universe consisted of seven people. lt was three from the Trump side, it would Mr. Trump, Allen Weisselberg, the CFO, and myself. The other three were Mr. Trump's partners, NBC, and they had three executives from NBC. And in the event that it was a deadlock, Paula Shughart, who was the president of Miss Universe organization, would make the final vote. So that vote to host - to allow the Agalarovs to host the 2013 Miss Universe Pageant was a unanimous decision by the Trump side, NBC side, and approved by the president of Miss Universe organization. So the notion that Donald Trump benefited in some way because the Agalarovs paid X amount of dollars to host, 50 percent of that went to NBC. Now, rest assured, somebody who was doing something nefarious would not give 50 percent away to somebody else, least of all NBC. So I'm not 100 percent certain that the Agalarovs, as it relates to our introduction of why they wanted it in Russia, has anything to do with anything other than wanting to host the pageant there for their own real estate purpose. UNCI,ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE TINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES UNCLASSIFIED, COMMfTTEE SENSITIVE L64 MR. SCHIFF: And my question was really not focused so much on the pageant as it was on what you could tell us about Mr. Agalarov. Do you know about his relationship with Mr. Putin? MR. COHEN: ldo not. MR. SCHIFF: And, now, you've met the son, Emin, as well as the senior Agalarov? MR. COHEN: The wife and the daughter as well. MR. SCHIFF: And how many interactions have you had with Mr. Agalarov, Sr.? MR. COHEN: One. MR. SCHIFF: And that was while - during the pageant? MR. COHEN: That was the Miss USA Pageant, yes. MR. SCHIFF: And how about the son, how well do you know the son? MR. COHEN: Twice l've met him. MR. SCHIFF: And are you aware of what kind of relationship either father or son have with the President? MR. RYAN: Which President? MR. SCHIFF: President Trump. MR. RYAN: Thank you. MR. COHEN: They know one another. MR. SCHIFF: Have they had interactions with each other, to your knowledge, since the pageant? MR. COHEN: Post the pageant? MR. SCHIFF: Yes. MR. COHEN: Yes. UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF TIIE I.INITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 165 UNCLASS]FIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE MR. SCHIFF: And what's the nature of those interactions been? MR. COHEN: I don't -- I don't know the answer to that. MR. SCHIFF: And do you know how much communication Donald Jr. has had with Emin Agalarov? MR. COHEN: ldon't. MR. SCHIFF: The emails that have become public about the Trump Tower meeting between Don Jr., Jared Kushner, Paul Manafort, and others, you're aware of the newspaper accounts? MR. COHEN: I'm aware of the newspaper accounts. MR. SCHIFF: ln those emails, that meeting was arranged, in part, through Mr. Agalarov. Do you know anything about Mr, Agalarov's role in that meeting? MR. COHEN: I was under the impression from the media reports it was from a gentleman by the name of Goldstone. MR. SCHIFF: Well, it was reported, at least, in those emails that Mr. Agalarov had had a conversation with the crown prosecutor, which resulted in communication to the son Emin, which resulted in communication to the British promoter. Do you know anything about the relationship of the Agalarovs with the Russian authorities? MR. COHEN: ldo not. MR. SCHIFF: Or how much contact Don Jr. has with either Agalarov Sr. or Jr.? MR. COHEN: I do not. MR. SCHIFF: Have you had any discussion with either the President, Don Jr., Paul Manafort, or Jared Kushner about that meeting at Trump Tower? MR. COHEN: I'm sorry, Congressman. One more time, your question, UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE IINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES UNCI,ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE 166 please? MR. SCHIFF: Yes. Have you had any conversation with either the President, the President's son Don Jr., Jared Kushner, or Paul Manafort about that meeting at Trump Tower that was the subject of those newspaper articles? MR. COHEN: Not that I recall. MR. SCHIFF: Have you ever met the attorney Veselnitskaya? MR. COHEN: No, sir, not that I can recall. MR. SCHIFF: Or corresponded in any way with her? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. SCHIFF: Evo Cavalasad, who was also a participant in the meeting, do you know him at all? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. SCHIFF: Or had any communication with him? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. SCHIFF: Akhmetshin, the Russian American lobbyist, have you had any interactions with him, either in person or through other communication? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. SCHIFF: Or anyone else that participated in that meeting, such as the Russian translator on the Russian side of things? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. SCHIFF: ln the emails between yourself and Mr. Sater that my colleagues asked you about earlier, Mr. Sater was interested at one point in your sending him a clip of, do I understand it, some positive things that then-candidate Trump had said about Vladimir Putin? MR. COHEN: I don't recall what the clip was, sir. UNCLASS]FIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE LiNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENS]TIVE t67 MR. SCHIFF: But was Mr. Sater communicating to you that he thought that things the President was saying positively about Mr. Putin would help the deal? MR, COHEN: Mr. Sater, along with many other people who appear in this document production, they all say many things in order to somehow bring themselves into the fold and to become part of this Trump Moscow proposal. ljust want to start by saying that a proposal, based upon a nonbinding letter of intent, is a far cry from a deal. And everybody wanted to somehow become involved in this proposal, and they offer their relationship to somebody, that this would be the secret sauce in order to get the project up and running. For me, I wasn't interested in any of the noise that was attached by Felix, by Mr. Sater, or anybody else. I was solely interested in seeing whether or not a deal could be had between The Trump Organization and LC. Expert. MR. SCHIFF: I understand. What I'm asking, though, is, Mr. Sater was communicating to you that he thought it would be helpful to move the deal forward if Mr. Putin was aware that the President, then-candidate Trump, was saying nice things about him. ls that a fair reading of what he was trying to get across to you? MR. COHEN: I don't know what Mr. Sater was trying to get across. Again, I only cared about trying to get the project done, because it would have been a great project for The Trump Organization. MR. SCHIFF: I think one of the emails that my colleague went over with you also from you to Mr. Sater was indicating that there was a clip of Mr. Putin saying nice things about Mr. Trump. lsn't that right? MR. COHEN: Yes. MR. SCHIFF: So isn't it fair to say you both felt that, to the degree that the UNCI,ASSTFIED, COMMITTEE SENSTTIVE PROPERTY OF THE LINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 168 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMTTTEE SENSITIVE President, then-candidate Trump was saying nice things about Putin and Putin was saying nice things about him, that would help advance the deal? MR. COHEN: I don't know if it would or it wouidn't, if Mr. Trump made a gracious statement about President Putin and/or President Putin made a gracious statement about Mr. Trump, this project then probably would have been built if it would have had some sort of an effect upon the outcome. I'd like to also just say, on more than a half a dozen occasions I was asked by multiple people to go, to bring Mr. Trump. Then when I said no, lwouldn't even discuss it with Mr. Trump, they wanted me to go. As I've said many times, I've never been to Russia. I've never accepted anyone's invitation. I never filed for a visa. I never bought a plane never booked a hotel. I never made ticket. I any plans to go to Russia. And the only way that I would have gone is if, in fact, we had a deal that was consummated that, pursuant to the terms of the LOl, I would have received the licensing fee and all of the definitive documents would have been executed to my satisfaction. Then I would have gone, and I would have possibly seen if Mr. Trump's schedule permitted for a groundbreaking ceremony. But none of that ever occurred. MR. SCHIFF: Your answers are going well beyond my questions, which is fine, but it will take us longer that way. lf candidate Trump saying positive things about Mr. Putin would help advance the deal, isn't it also true that if the President was articulating pro-Russian policies, that would help advance that lucrative deal? MR. RYAN: You're using the word "President." lt was Mr. Trump, who UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE LINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES UNCLASSIFTED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE 169 was one of 16 candidates. MR. SCHIFF: President, then-candidate Trump. MR. COHEN: lapologize. MR. SCHIFF: Let me just repeat the question. lf candidate Trump saying positive things about Mr. Putin would help advance the deal, isn't it also true that if candidate Trump was articulating policies that were pro-Russian, that would also help advance the deal? MR. COHEN: Again, I can't answer that question. I don't know the answer to it. MR. SCHIFF: Did you ever discuss with Mr. Trump the degree to which anything positive he could say or do vis-d-vis Russia would help advance this project? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. SCHIFF: Mr, Cohen, have you ever come into contact with Peter Smith? MR. COHEN: I don't know who Peter Smith is, sir. MR. SCHIFF: Peter Smith has been reported to have engaged in an op research-like effort to find the missing Hillary Clinton emails. So you never came into contact with a GOP operative/political researcher named Peter Smith? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. SCHIFF: There are a number of allegations in the dossier concerning a Michael Cohen that you've answered at length in a letter from your counsel. just want to ask you, and I think you have largely responded already, but just to make sure we're perfectly clear. A lot of the answers in your statement are very specific, in the sense that UNCLASS]FfED, COMMITTEE SENSTT]VE PROPERTY OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES I 170 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE they say things like he, meaning yourself, did not meet officials from the PA Legal Department clandestinely in an EU country in August of 2016. And that's a very iawyerty answer. And so let me ask you, without confining it to August of 2016, I take it your testimony is you never met with anyone that you knew to be affiliated with the PA Legal Department? MR. COHEN: That's correct. MR. SCHIFF: And it's also your testimony that you never met with anyone affiliated with the Kremlin, to your knowledge, in any either EU or non-EU country, during the campaign to discuss any coordination with the Trump campaign of any kind? MR. COHEN: That's correct. MR. SCHIFF: And if the allegations in the dossier concerning Michael Cohen don't refer to you, because -- Iet me ask you it this way. All of the allegations -- are any of the allegations in the dossier that pertain to you or pertain to a Michael Cohen, are any of them true as they pertain to you? MR. COHEN: They are not true, and I have stated - happy to do so again -- they are false in its entirety. MR. SCHIFF: And are you aware of anyone else within the Trump campaign that those allegations may pertain to, that is, if the identity were not Michael Cohen, is there anyone else from the Trump campaign that you have reason to believe Mr. Steele may have been referring to? MR. COHEN: I'm unaware as to what Mr. Steele was referring to as it relates to me in the dossier. MR. SCHIFF: Just to make sure that I'm asking the question UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE LNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES clearly. lt's UNCLASS]FIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE probably a mistake on my 171 end. lf the Mr. Cohen referred to in the dossier is not you -MR. RYAN: Sir, could you ask in it a slightly different way that might work? Could you say, is there someone else in the campaign that could be substituted for you as opposed to someone whose name is Michael Cohen. I think that's the confusion you're getting. MR. SCHIFF: Yes. Basically, what I'm trying to ask you is, if the allegations that pertain to a Michael Cohen in the dossier are not true, in the sense that you didn't do any of these things, do you have any reason to believe they are true with respect to someone else in the Trump campaign for which Mr. Steele may have mistaken your identity? MR. COHEN: lam unaware. MR. SCHIFF: You mentioned that after the meeting you had with Mr. Sater and others on the Ukraine proposal that you destroyed the documents. Why did you destroy them? MR. COHEN: Because I was neither interested in the political aspirations of Andrey Artemenko. I realized I was -- l've used this line before -- swimming in the wrong lane. And in all fairness, I was angry at Mr. Sater, because I found the entire meeting to be a tremendous waste of my time. MR. SCHIFF: And when you say destroy, do you mean you just threw them out, or did you shred them or what did you do with them? MR. COHEN: I disposed of them. MR. SCHIFF: And how? MR. COHEN: I threw them in the garbage. MR. SCHIFF: Mr. Sergi Millian makes reference in one of his emails to UNCLASSIFTED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE LINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES T'NCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSIT]VE L72 George Papadopoulos, bringing you up in conversation. Do you know any George Papadopoulos? MR. COHEN: ldon't. MR. SCHIFF: And let me just ask you the more general question concerning money laundering. During your time in The Trump Organization, has it ever come to your attention that foreign nationals have used Trump properties to launder their money? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. CASTRO: You mentioned earlier, Mr. Cohen, that you only have been the attorney - prior to January 20th of 2017, you only represented Trump Organization. ls that correct? MR. RYAN: That's not true. MR. CASTRO: Okay, Trump Organization and Mr. Trump? MR. RYAN: Keep going. MR. CASTRO: Who else? MR. COHEN: The family. MR. CASTRO: Okay. Which individuals? MR. COHEN: The family. MR. CASTRO: What do you mean by that? MR. COHEN: Our First Lady, the children, on some occasions the spiouses of the children. MR. CASTRO: You represent each of these folks individually or do they have some companies and subsidiaries? MR. COHEN: Whatever their needs are, they call me in order to handle. MR. CASTRO: I guess I need something more specific than that. TTNCI.ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 773 UNCIJ\SSTFTED, COMMfTTEE SENSITIVE MR. RYAN: Well, don't disclose privileged information. MR. COHEN: lwill not. MR. RYAN: So you actually called for privileged information. But the bottom line is -- let me make a proffer to you. The proffer is, he represents the President of the United States before he became President and afterwards. He represents people in the family on a project-by-project basis, as directed by the President or by the individual, in personal issues unrelated to this investigation. MR. CASTRO: Well, the problem here is that allthese people are roped into this investigation. MR. RYAN: Pardon me? MR. CASTRO: AII these folks are -- many of these folks are roped into this investigation. MR. COHEN: And they have counsel representing them for this specific issue. MR. CASTRO: But we're trying to get a sense of the landscape here and the relations and interactions among -MR. RYAN: I don't know how to do it more than what ljust did for you, which is that he does their personal legalwork unrelated to this investigation. MR. CASTRO: Okay. Then how about accept this as a last question with respect to that? What are the categories of law? For example, are you doing divorces? Are you doing criminal defense? MR. RYAN: Don't answer the divorce question, first of all, MR. CASTRO: I guess you did do a divorce. Okay. Categories? MR. COHEN: Personal, business would be the two categories. MR. RYAN: You're talking currently, right? UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSTTTVE PROPERTY OF ]-HE UNITED STATES HOUSE O}- REPRESENTATIVES 774 UNCLASSIFTED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE MR. CASTRO: Right. But personal, that's not a category. I mean family law, real estate, those are categories. There's no type of law called personal law, unless you're talking about personal injury law. MR. COHEN: I'm not referring to personal injury law. MR. RYAN: So, look, you have immensely wealthy people. They need lawyers. He's their lawyer. MR. CASTRO: So estate? MR. COHEN; lt's not for estate tax planning purposes. lf there's an issue that affects them personally. MR. CASTRO. Contracts? MR. RYAN: Don't disclose. MR. COHEN: I apologize. I can't disclose - MR. CASTRO: So you're asserting a privilege? MR. COHEN: -- on the personal matters that I have worked on. MR. RYAN: I explained to You - MR. COHEN: They are unrelated to this investigation at all. MR. CASTRO: For our purposes on the record, are you asserting a privilege? MR. COHEN: Yes. MR. CASTRO: Okay. You also did work for The Trump Foundation? MR. COHEN: No, sir, MR. CASTRO: Okay. Do we have that production here? I'll give you a Bates stamp so you can look at this. MR. RYAN: I don't have all of the documents, sir. I didn't bring them. MR. CASTRO: We have them. UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSTTIVE PROPERTY OF THE LJNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES L7s UNCI,ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE MR. RYAN: Okay. MR. CASTRO: Here you agree. There are multiple copies of this agreement. We're going to pick one of them. Bates stamp number r\4DC-H-000312. MR. RYAN: I think we've asked and answered this, but -MR. CASTRO: Well, but there's a conflict in the answer and what I perceive to be the case. MR. RYAN: Sir, there's no conflict in the answer, but perhaps he could make a proffer to you what the bottom line is. MR. CASTRO: Counsel, let's go through this. MR. RYAN: Then we'll go over the asked and answered thing 5 hours into this. MR. CASTRO: this. Okay. I know you've stayed at depositions longer than You've been around a long time. MR. RYAN: fhat's my living. MR. CASTRO: So on that Bates stamp page it says: "Signed on behalf of The Donald J. Trump Foundation, lnc., name Michael Cohen, Executive Vice President and Special Counselto Donald J. Trump," Do you read where it says signed -- do you see where it says signed on behalf of The Donald J. Trump Foundation? t\4R. COHEN: I do. I see where it says that. MR. CASTRO: So you entered into this agreement on behalf of The Donald J. Trump Foundation. ls that correct? MR. COHEN: No. MR. CASTRO: So why does this document say signed on behalf of The UNCI,ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE TINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES L76 UNCLASSIFfED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE Donald J. Trump Foundation, lnc.? MR. COHEN: As I was trying to explain to you before break at that time - I think we took a - Doug Schoen had asked Mr. Trump to appear. lt's important that you understand the context. MR. CASTRO: But - MR. COHEN: lt was not on behalf of The Donald J. Trump Foundation. They received the money for it. Because Mr. Trump didn't want to take money from it, I recommended that they send the - MR. RYAN: Don't disclose your privileged communication. The bottom line is the money was sent to the foundation. lt doesn't mean he represented the foundation. He represented Mr. Trump. IvlR. CASTRO: Counsel, you agree the document says: "Signed on behalf of The Donald J. Trump Foundation, lnc." Your counsel is familiar with legal documents. You don't put an extraneous sentence like that on a contract. ls that correct? You're an aftorney. You know that's the case. MR. COHEN: Let me also say, sir, that my signature does not appear anywhere in the document. MR. CASTRO: So you're saying that this agreement was never effected? MR. COHEN: That's not what I'm saying. MR. CASTRO: Okay, so it was effected. This was the agreement. And it says on behalf of the foundation. ls that correct? MR. COHEN: On behalf of - the foundation received the money, but I was not doing legal work on behalf of the foundation. MR. CASTRO: Okay. We can -- MR. RYAN: He received the money as President, or it's POTUS who UNCI,ASSIFf,ED, COMMTTTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES UNCLASSIFIED, COMM]TTEE SENSITIVE 177 received it as Mr. Trump. The money was then sent to the foundation, That doesn't mean he was the lawyer for the foundation, which you're insisting upon. He was the lawyer for the person who got the money and gave it to the foundation. That's the issue. MR. CASTRO: That doesn't hold up in contract -MR. COHEN: I never held a position in the foundation. lf people would say to me, "l want to do something nice for Mr. Trump," well, he has a foundation, MR. CASTRO: I guess, Mr. Cohen, let me ask you then, then why would you agree to something that says signed on behalf of the foundation when your name is there and you weren't signing on behalf of the foundation or entering into the agreement on behalf of the foundation? MR. COHEN: As I said, I never signed the document, but the money was transferred at some point to the foundation. MR. CASTRO: Okay. Because there is a conflict now in your role as attorney for The Trump Organization versus a document that says that you're doing it on behalf of the foundation, the money went to an account at Capital One, NA, Commercial Real Estate, on Park Avenue, New York. ls that a foundation account or is that some other organization account? MR. COHEN: I don't know. I don't run the books for the foundation either. I have no role in the foundation other than if someone asks me, "What can I do for Mr. Trump?" lt's very difficult to buy him something. lt's very difficult to get him a gift. So I say, he has a foundation that he uses to help people, so send whatever you want. MR. CASTRO: Okay. These are just a few cleanup questions now, okay? Are you aware of any occasions where Kushner properties or assets were UNCLASSTFTED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE LTNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 118 UNCLASSIFTED, COMMTTTEE SENSTTIVE used to pay off the debts of any Trump companies? MR. RYAN: lt's not pertinent, and I'm directing the witness not to answer it. MR. CASTRO: Sure it is. MR. RYAN: lt's so totally not pertinent. lt has nothing to do with Russia. MR. CASTRO: We've asked the same question of other folks and it was answered. MR. RYAN: lt's a family area, you are out of your swim lane, sir. This is totally impertinent. MR. SCHIFF: lf you're not asserting a privilege, you need to answer the question. MR. RYAN: No, l'm directing the witness here. l'm going to cite the case law. We're going to get this on the record now. We're going to look at the case law on pertinency. MR. Schiff: We don't need any case law on pertinency, counsel. MR. RYAN: No, we're going to put it on the record. MR. Schiff: Well, you can put whatever you like on the record, but he's going to answer the question. MR. RYAN: ll United States Code 192, as interpreted by Rumely v. The United States aL197 F.2d 166 at page 177 ,lhe D.C. Circuit, 1953. lt is still the law here that pertinent to a subject matter under inquiry not generally pertinent, you have to establish the pertinency of the questions to your jurisdiction. You're out of your jurisdiction, questioning about Jared's property. MR. SCHIFF: Counsel, you're out of your jurisdiction, l'm afraid. Depending on what Mr, Kushner may or may not have been involved in, it's very UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE LNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 179 UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITTVE pertinent. And you're not the one to judge the relevance of a question in our investigation. MR. RYAN: No, the chairman is. MR. SCHIFF: That's right. MR. RYAN: The chairman has to judge pertinency. Pertinency is the same thing as the relationship to the four points in your chart. Tell me how that relates to whether Jared Kushnefs property is involved. lf you frame it about Russia, frame it about Russia, and then you can ask about Jared's property. MR. SCHIFF: Counsel -MR. RYAN: Yes. MR. SCHIFF: -- we don't have to give you an explanation for what's relevant in our investigation and what we've uncovered in our investigation, and we're not going to, unless you're asserting a privilege. MR. CONAWAY: You have asked a similar question, sir? You can rephrase it, though. MR. CASTRO: Well, here's the thing, Chairman. That question has been asked of another witness and was answered, at least from their perspective. So I'm asking the question now from his perspective. We've covered it before. MR. CONAWAY: Help me understand how this ties to Russia. MR. CASTRO: Again, because there's obviously folks within the family who have had meetings and relationships with Russian money. We need to figure out whether there's any leverage that's being used upon any of these folks. MR. SWALWELL: Jared met with VEB Bank. He met with VEB Bank, and that was in his statement. His public statement was that he had met after the election with VEB Bank. UNCLASSTFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE I.INITED STATES I{OUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 180 UNCLASSIFfED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE MR. CONAWAY: So put a timeframe on your question that's relevant to what's going on. MR. CASTRO: Sure. OkaY. All right. ln the last 3 years, do you know of any -MR. CONAWAY: That's too wide. Trump wasn't even President. MR. CASTRO: OkaY, January 2415. MR. CONAWAY: He announced for the Presidency in what, June of 2015? MR. CASTRO: Well, he was probably thinking about it before that' So can we say January o12015? MR. CONAWAY: That will work. MR. CASTRO: Okay. Since January of 2015 to the present time, are you aware of any Trump debts that were paid using Kushner assets? MR. RYAN: What is a Trump debt, sir? I apologize. I have no idea what a Trump debt is. MR. CASTRO: Well, Trump, anything.that Mr. Trump or the Trump companies have owed to anyone or any bank or organization. lf the answer is no, it should be - MR. COHEN: The answer is l'm unaware of any Kushner payment on behalf of a Trump debt. MR. CASTRO: So you're not aware that the Kushners have used any of their assets to pay off any of the debts of Mr. Trump since January 2015? MR. RYAN: Wait a minute. We're going to make a record v. The United States, 367 U.S., page - or beginning at 456. MR. CASTRO: Chairman, we went through this. UNC],ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE LTNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES now. Deutsch UNCLASS]FIED, COMMITTEE SENS]TIVE MR. RYAN: Going on -- no, this is a second case. 467-68. 181 Let me read the sentence. "The due process clause of the Fifth Amendment requires that the pertinency of the interrogation to the topic under the committee's inquiry must be brought home to the witness at the time the questions are put to him." MR. SWALWELL: ls he asserting the Fifth Amendment? MR. RYAN: No, he's not asserting the Fifth Amendment. MR. SCHIFF: Then he should just answer the question. MR. RYAN: The due process clause of the Fifth Amendment. MR. CONAWAY: I do find it relevant, Counsel. MR. RYAN: All right. Go ahead, answer the question then. MR. COHEN: I'm unaware. MR. CASTRO: Okay. Can you finish the sentence, because we've been going back. You're unaware of what? MR. COHEN: I'm sorry. I'm unaware of any payment made by Kushner or a Kushner company on behalf of a Trump debt. MR. CASTRO: Okay, thank you. Anything else, you guys? MR. SWALWELL: Have you ever met Sechin? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. RYAN: lapologize. MR. SWALWELL: Sechin. MR. COHEN: I don't know who Sechin is. MR. SWALWELL: Have you heard the name Sechin? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. SWALWELL: Then I guess it would be fair to say, to your knowledge, UNCi,ASS]FTED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE TINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE 182 Mr. Trump has never met Sechin? MR. COHEN: I cannot answer that question. I don't know who Mr. Trump has met. I don't live with him2417. I'm only with him when I'm at The Trump Organization. MR. SWALWELL: You know, you mentioned that you were presenting business deals to him during his time as a Republican candidate and then the general election candidate. How would you, in your observation, characterize how he divided his time between his businesses and being a candidate? MR. RYAN: lt's not pertinent. lt's a fishing expedition into things unrelated to Russia. MR, CONAWAY: Let's move on. MR. SWALWELL: Have you ever met Carter Page? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR, SWALWELL: To your knowledge, has the President ever met Carter Page? MR. COHEN: I don't know who the President has met. MR. SWALWELL: Do you have any financial relationship with VEB? Have you heard of VEB? MR. RYAN: VEB, sir? MR. COHEN: Are you referring to WB Bank? MR. SWALWELL: VEB. MR. COHEN: No, sir, I don't know what VEB is. MR. SWALWELL: Who's WB? MR. COHEN: WB is the second-largest bank in Russia. MR. SWALWELL: Do you have any financial relationship with WB? UNCI,ASSIFIED, COMMfTTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE LINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 183 UNCLASSIFTED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. SWALWELL: To your knowledge, has Donald Trump or The Trump Organization ever received a personal or business loan from VEB? MR. COHEN: l'm aware of who even VEB is. MR. SWALWELL: How about VTB? MR. COHEN: I don't believe that he does, but I don't know the answer. MR. SWALWELL: Have you ever met Sergey Gorkov? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. SWALWELL: To your knowledge, has Donald Trump? MR. COHEN: I don't know. MR. SWALWELL: To your knowledge, has Jared Kushner? MR. COHEN: I don't know. MR. SWALWELL: ln 2008, Donald Trump Jr. -- and you knew him in 2008 ls that right? MR. COHEN: Yes, sir. MR. SWALWELL: He stated: "Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets. We see a lot of money pouring in from Russia." Was he correct when he said that? MR. COHEN: I don't know what he was referring to, whether he was referring to a specific project, but my understanding would be that I don't agree with that statement. I don't believe that there's a large cross-section of Russians in the building that I live in, which is a Trump property. I believe there's only 1 family out of 80, MR. SWALWELL: ln August 2013, it was reported that at a Trump National Golf Club event in Charlotte, Eric Trump said: "Well, we don't rely on UNCLASSTFTED, COMMITTEE SENSfTTVE PROPERTY OF THE I.INITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES I.]NCLASSIFfED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE 184 American banks. We have all the funding we need out of Russia." Are you familiar with that statement? MR. COHEN: No, sir, I'm not. MR. SWALWELL: Have you ever met Sergey Kislyak? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. SWALWELL: Have you ever seen him in the building, Trump Tower? MR. COHEN: No, sir. MR. SWALWELL: Have you ever met Roger Stone? MR. COHEN: Yes. MR, SWALWELL: When did you first meet him? MR. COHEN: On or about 2011. MR. SWALWELL: Would you see him in Trump Tower during the Presidential campaign, from June 2015 to November 8th, 2016? MR. COHEN: I saw him on occasion in the Trump building. MR. SWALWELL: Approximately how many -- MR. COHEN: A handful or so. MR. CASTRO: Final question. The lntelligence Comrnunity has assessed that Russia interfered with our 2016 election. Based on everything you've seen, you've experienced, do you agree with that assessment? MR. COHEN: I appreciate this committee and the work that's being done by our lntelligence Community. I truly believe we have the best lntelligence Community in the world. I have no access to any specialor privileged information that would give me a definitive answer as to what Russia did or didn't do, but what I will say is I accept the findings that I read in the media. What I will say, which I've been saying all along, ljust had nothing to do UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE LINITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATTVES 185 UNCLASSTFTED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE with any of this interference or collusion or any other words that they want to use to describe Russia's interference in our electoral process. So my hope is that at the end of this interview, that the same way that my name was dragged through the mud, I would hope that this committee and others would talk about and put out the falsity of my name being used in the dossier. MR. CASTRO: Thank you for your testimony today, Mr. Cohen. MR. RYAN: Mr. Chairman. MR. CONAWAY: Yes, sir. MR. RYAN: We had three documents at the beginning of the meeting. One was his prepared statement; the second was the two-pager on the Moscow building project; and the third was the document on the - MR. KING: Mr. Chairman? I'm sorry, go ahead. One final statement. MR. RYAN: The document on the dossier. lf those three could be part of the record. MR. CONAWAY: Without objection. MR. KING: May ljust put on the record to put this in further context for those who are not from the same part of the world as Mr. Cohen and I are. You were asked before about any dealings with Russian Americans. lf I had been asked if I had any dealings with Russian Americans in my office, I would have said said no. I spoke to me district director today, whose husband is Jewish. - I didn't mention anything about this - out of curiosity, where were his parents from? She said allfour grandparents are from Russia. So that made him a Russian American. She's married to a Russian American. His parents, who I've known for 25 years, until this afternoon I didn't know they were Russian American. So I'm guilty for dealing with Russian UNCI,ASSIFIED, COMMTTTEE SENSTTIVE PROPERTY OF THE T,NITED STATES I]OUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES I UNCI,ASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE Americans. MR. CONAWAY: We're off the record. Thank you. [Whereupon, at 3:34 p.m., the interview was concluded.] UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE PROPERTY OF THE UNTTED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 186