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Texas State Library and Archives Commission
-

~---

:;zua _

 PROOEEDIBGS

of the
JOINT COMUITTEE OF THE SENATE AND THE HOUSE

IN THE INVESTIGATION OP THE
TEXAS

STATE

RANGER

FORCE.
~4

99

123

I

•

S'/5

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 V 0 L U' ll B

l •

-- . -

IUD l~ X.

Pae; a

Oho.rgoo nos. l - 5 - - - - • - - - - • - - • • • • - • Teotimony of William G. B. ~orrison - - - - - - - - - - -

a

n

"

A. G. Crawford

- -

35

"

"

B. F. Johnaon - - - • - - - - - - • - - - •

4:9

t1

" Alba Ro~od - - - - - - - - - - - - - - " L. R. t!1ll1oan - - - - - - - - - - - - - - " DaJ'ton uoses - - - - - - - - - • - - - - - -

Gl

n

"

Ohargoe nos. 6 ... 10
Exoopt1one to Chargoe

- - • - - - - - - - -

3

- .. .. - - - - - - - - - - ~ - ~ ~ - -- ~ -- - ~ --

-

.Anawor to Oliarges - - - - - - - - - - - - - - • - -

cho.:rsos uos.

11 - 111

I.:aa . CaMlco'

Repl~

.......... -

- - - ........... - - - - - ..

to P..nD't'tor of Adjutant Genero,l

of Col. H. J. Slocum -

-

167

"

Eduard Tyrrell - - - ... - - - - - - - - ... -

n

"
"

- .. -

202

208
221

J. B. Scarborcm,.r;h - - - -

253

"

"

c. Goor~ - Dr. s. ll. Loe.oh

"

"

!h'a. Virgili.1a Yeo.gor

J.

CMrso fi1ed by Thomas

D~ng

.. - - ..

195

J. Hemnor - - - - - - - - - - - - - Thom.a u. Hook - - - - - - .. - - - .. - -

"

w.

• .... - - - ... - -

- - - - - -

Hook

R. B. Croa.gcr - -

238

208

- - -

of Ventura R. Sanchoz
"

- - - - - -

Ed

"
"

"

.144

- - - - - - - -

n

~eotimony

143-A

164

Capt. Harry &lrrioon - - • - -

ff

135

-

... - -

"

"
"

123

156

n

--

99

- -

Oha.rgoo uoa. 18 and 19 - - - - - - - - ~eotimony

- -

94

- - ....... - - -

288

- - - ..... - - - - - -

301

- -

- -

- ..

- - - - - - ... - - - -

Docl.fl.l'ation of ~oribio Roclr5.gqc~

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

-

- -

- - - - - - -

535

357

563
3r15

 VOLU?JE l.

IndO:& •• Page 2.

-

Photograph of Bandits at ltoriaa - - ...

-

........ ..... - ....

mostimony o~ W. W. Beall· - • • • - • • • • • • - - • - n

tt

"

n

"

394

394

M. Barbee - - - - - - - ... - • - • • - - -

406

n

Jolm Br~ - - - - - - - - - .. .. .. .. - - .... -

421

n

~. D. Thorqpson - - - • - - - - - - - - •

433

" w.

.-

-" 3Udge J. H.
-" Joeua Vil1eroa1 - - - - - - - - - - --F. c. Deckor - - - - - - - - - - - - - - " Jesce Dennett - - - • - - - - - - - - .. ......... _ ........ .
Jack

Yo.rboroush - - - -

-

Bea.ll - - - - - - .. - .... - - -

n

Page

"

"

John Edds

Louis Brula,. - ..

"

Oscar

"

" Capt.

'l!ostimony of

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

w.

,.

44.4
456

467
4'19

511
52'1

535

- •

541

• ...... - - •
(Reonllod, Vol. 3, Page 1089)

558

o..

Do.no~ ... - - - - - .. - - -

-

We T. Va.nn - - • .. - - -

l7. Jonea

..... - - - - - - - - - - - - - ..

590

"

"

R. J • Kirk • - .... • • - ... • - .. ... ... - ... - ... -

596

"

"

Joo soott

607

"

"

Russell savage - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

................. - .. -.- ....

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

---

609

 THE 30INT COUJ.tITTEE of the Senate and the House oonTened
at ten o'clock A. M., Friday, January 31, 1919, in room of

Railroad Commission,

Oap~tol,

at Austin, Texas, pursuant to

resolution authorizing an investigation of the Texas State
Ranger Force.

PRESENT:

Hon. W. H.

~lodsoe,

Chairman.

Senator Paul Page, Vioe-Chairman.
Senator Williford.
Hon.

w.

K. Tidwell.

Hon. Dan

THE CHAIRMAN:

s.

McM1111n.

The committee will now oome to order.

Gentlemen, in the conduct of this investigation, I want to say

at the outset that we are not partisans in any sense but we
are here for the purpose of oonducting an absolutely fair and
impartial investigation with reference to our state Ranger
Foroe, their activities and the neoeeeitiee for a continuance

of the force, and what, if anything, oan be done for the
betterment of the condition and rendering to the people of
Texas a better service.

We are glad to have you gentlemen

before us, and any other citizens of the State who may know
anything or who has any knowledge 1n this matter will be gladly
heard at any time.

We are going to ask you to cooperate with
I

us in order to expedite business for we have other matters
1.....

that must have our attention, and in addition to that we are

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 3

going to ask you to give us absolute order in the room. We
want to keep a stenograph1o report and we want a complete
record until we get through•

ourselves.

We only ask this in fairness to

Now if you gentlemen will indicate who among your

numbers desires to be heard, immediately upon the reading of
the ·charges that have been prepared, or the speoifioations,
whiohever you choose to term them, we will be glad to hear
their evidence.
(At this time Walter Pridemore was duly sworn to sot as
official shorthand reporter and seoretary of the joint committee·.)

MR. J. T. CANALES:
committee:

Mr. Chairman, and gentlemen of the

I have here the charges which I have prepared and

wish to file with your committee.

I have made an original

and a copy to be served on the Adjutant General and have made
a oopy for each member of the oommittee.

(Ur. Canales' original charges were filed and
presented to the committee, and here follow: )

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

by

him

 Austin, Texas,
January 30, 1919.
To the ~onorable v~ ~.Bledsoe, Chai:rman, and the
Members of t~~ Joint Committee of the ~ouse and
Senate to !nvesti~ate the Char~ee A~ainet the State
.'EBn~er Force:
$j

rs:
!, J. T.

Canales, Representative from

hereby make the

followin~ ohar~ee

and protest under oath that the

purpose of

enabli~

permitted in the present

77tn District, do

upon information a nd belief,
hereinafter made are not

oha~es

prompted by malice or any improper
t~e

t~e

moti~

on my part, but for

the Committee to inveetiqa.te the abuses
Ra~er

force in various sections of the

State: to wit,

<....

! oha.r~e that on or

First.

B. Huret and Daniel Hinojosa, while in a state of

Ra~ers Geor~e

intoxication,
Die~o,

about November 16, 1918

disohar~ed

their piatole in the streets of San

Duvnl County, Texas, and intimidated the citizens of said

town that, and
their arrest,

t~at

t~ey

afterwards, when complaints were made for

made threats

th.e life ot Constable

a~ainst

Ventura R. Sanchez in the event he sh.ouJ.d execute the warrant
of arrest

a~ainst

them.

! submit herewith the affidavits of said

constable accompanied by the affidavits of witnesses

l~

A. Munoz

and Juan Barrera. and, in addition to these, the letter from
Yrs.
!

who resides in San

Vir~inia Yea~er

Die~o.

Texa s, all of wh.i"1

mark "Exhibit A", and which ! desire to be made part of tli.ese

charges.
Seoond.

I

ch.ar~e

t11at Jesus Villarreal, a citizen of

Duval County, while under the oueto«y of
~ether

Ser~eant

J. 3. FAds to-

with other ra.ru;ere, whose names at present are not known

to me, on or about th.e 15th day of September, 1918, was tortured
and brutally trea ted by said
'.c.

Ran~ers,

assisted by one Royal Col-

lins, in order to make him confess to a supposed violation of the

Texasla•r.
StateInLibrary
and Archives
Commission
th.is connection
! eubmitt
tl-\e a:.f':fidavit
fJ'

of said Jesus

 Villarreal, accompanied by the affidavits of Eulalio Benavides
and Guillermo Benavides , all citizens of Duval County, Texas ,
whioh affidavits I mark

" ~)tnibit

considered in connection with this

I

Third.

ask that the same be

ahar~e.

that on or about October 5, 1910 ,

J . Edds, stationed at R10

ser~eant j .

by

ohar~e

a

B", and

Grande City, Killed a man

the name of Lizando Munoz at l'unoz' Ra.noh which is near Rio

Grande City under circumstances

murder in the second
by Captain

w. u.

de~e.

Manson on.sz

I

whio~

makes said Bide

ohar~e

that

~uilty

investi~ation

par~ee af~1davits

of

was made

of said FA.de and

others and said charges were turned over to the Adjutant General
of this State and his attention called thereto.
this

1nvest1~ation
~ouse

eral to the

hae not been turned oser by the Adjutant Gen-

but must remain in his possession and ! wish

to submit in connection with this

w.

L.

Wri~ht,

D.

w.

Low,

0

ti~ation

ohar~e

the letter of Captain

written October 9, 1918 1 addressed to Hon. Sam

Actin~

Exhibit C" .

Adjutant General, which letter ! refer to as

l further cltarge that

notwithetap.di~

made by the Adjutant General said J .

retained in

The record of

t~e

this inves

J. Edds has been

Service and is still in the service.

to eurranon as witnesses

jn

I desire

this oase R. Ooetel"'lene, County Attor-

ney of Starr County, Texas , wlto resides at Rio Grande City, F.
Oostervene, Justice of t11e Peace , Starr County, Texas, Rio Grande
City, and Sheriff G. A. Guerra, Rio Grande City, Starr County,
Texas.
Fou~'th.•

l

char~e

th.at on or about September 2 , 1918,

one Jose l'ari• Gomez Salinas was murdered. in Jim

lfo~~

County by

two mexioans named Sabas Ozuna and Frederico Lopez under ciroumstanoee that lead me to believe that said Mexicans were
under the orders and at the request of

4

Ser~eant

J.

j.

aotin~

Edds .

In

oonneotjon with this charge l submit the record of the invest!-

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 w.

gation made by Captain

M. Ranson,

acti~

under the orders of

the Adjutant fene.ral , as per letter dated September 16 , 1918,
enclosjn~reoo:ro.

'

of the

1nvest1~ation

ma.de by

~im

which papers !

mo.rk "Exhibit D" , and l desire that the Committee should consider same in oonneot1on with my cliarg.e • .
Fifth.

J ohar~e thPt on or about April 4, 1918 , one

iJ.orenoio Garcia was 'kil):)d while in the custody of

Ran~ers

Locke,

saddler, and possibly Sittler, of Captain C"1ae . F. Stephens

~

pany, under circumstances which aacordi~ to inv~t)~ation made
by the Adjutant General's Department , shows th.at it constituted

murder.

I further ohar~e that notwithetandi~ this investi~ation

nejther of said

Ra~ers

in whose custody the man was before he

was killed was dj.soha.r~ed from the Servi oe, or in any way repr1·

ma.nded for their action by the Adjutant General's Department.
And in oonneotion with this

char~e I

desire to submit the

OOl'-

respondenoe a.nd statements that are taken from the files of the
'

Adjuunt General's Department which are here marked "l!Zhibit3¥" ,
and in add5tion thereto ! desire to submit the names of the followin~ witnesses:

H.

w. Gray,

Brownsville, Texas. Oscar c. Dan-

cy, County Attorney of Cameron County, Brownsville, Texas, captain

w.

T. Vann, Sheriff of Cameron County, Brownsville, · Texae,

Jud~e ~. J.

Kirk, ~ustj~ of the Peace, Preoinot No •. 2, Cameron

County, Brownsville, Texas , and deeire that a
_t~

subpeon~ duce§...

should be issued a.&Sainet Frank Champion, Dist.riot Clerk

of Cameron County, Brownsville, Texas , requ1rin~ him to brin~ in
all records before the Grand Jury of Cameron County with re~ard

to

t'l-le 1 examinin~

trial of said case.

In addition to the above

ohar~ee !

reserve the

to file further ohar~ee for other violations of law.
sire also to submit to you the

5

ohar~es

Ford which accompanies this 11at of

ri~ht

And ! de-

made by Ronorable Jol\n J .

o~ar~ee .

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 RespeotfUlly Submitted by
J, %: Oa.na.lee.
Representative from the ??th District.

In

con~eotio:n

wi-th tlte abov-e the

tollowin~

is coneid•

ered.
HOUSE OF REPRESENTAT!VES,
State of Texas;
Aust:fn.

w.

lton.

rt. Bledsoe, Chm.•
Committee,
Rana-er Force,
Austin, Texas.
~ouae Ynvestj~atirus

Dear &ir:

l submit to your oormnittee the na.mea of

c.

McKenzie, and Private t.
your
they

investi~a.tion,

and

Ser~t.

Sam

Bille, of the State Rl.~er force tor

char~e

that on or about

each maltreated a prisoner in

t~e

A~st

l, 1918.

County jail of Nolan Coun-

ty and abused such prisoner in an unwarranted manner.

I think tale

correct address of eaoh of the pa.rti es abused wltose names I do
not

kno~

oan be obtained from J,

s.

Beall, Sweetwater or Sheriff

Kemp, of Paint Rook,

Yours very truly.
John J. Ford.

Since further

refreeni~

my meaory ! think one of the

partieo was named Tyson, and lives near ?"ullin, Texas,
definite information from

a.

Can

~et

J. Tyson, Mullin. Tex.a.SF who IS fa-

tliereof injured party-

t,
FILED
jANTJAR'f
llst,Commission
1919. Walter
Texas State Library
and
Archives

Pridemore, Secretary

 EXHIBIT A,
Attached to Charges of J. T. Canales.
------------~---~--

San Diego, Tex. Jen 26, 1919.
Hon. Canales,
Austin, Tex.
'J,t y

dear air:---! note with satisfaotton that you are bringing

into notice the injustice done by that lawless band of highwaymen known as Rangers. Twice within the months they have
"shot up" this town. They have no regard :ror either the o1v11
or military laws. They make their own out of a bottle, it used
to be old Rippy

it is mesoale now. Seriously, I've seen them

drunk and abusive without the least exouse for it. They have
abused me and I have appealed to the Adj. for rel1of. I oan tell
you of many instances to my personal knowledge of their lawless
praottoes. If you wish.

I am sure that they are the German

Propogand1sts--they keep strife between the

u. s.

& Mexico they

harass the lives out of the Mexican speaking citizens. The
Germana are alone of strangers to find weloome to this part of
Tex. !!any men went to Mextoo. not to avoid the service of the

u. s.

but to avoid the 1nevttable unwarranted assault and arrest

by the RanGere. It was and still ie a reign of terror. They are

1n to overy thlll6. even civil cases. I can give you detailed
aooounte of their frightfulness here lf you wish.

Respeotftllly,
MRS. VIRGIIJIA YEAGER.

I am Chairman Women Suffragists of this

6-a
Texas

State Library and Archives Commission

co.

 Joint Committee.

In~esti~ti~

THE CHA!tU!AN:

Texas State

~n~ers.

Gentlecien, a 11et of some twenty or twenty-

five names hos been handed to me ea the names of gentlemen
from down in that oountry who desire to be heard. Uow I am sure
that this seneral testimony le gotng to bo along the lines of
the general work and off1o1ency or the Department. Uy suggestion
would be that we let these gentlomon select those that . they woula

like most to be hear<l--! am sure we ere not wanting to hear twentyfivo or thirty witnesses just on eeneral condlt1one.
gentlemen

~ould

It you

hola e conference and eeloot those you desire

first to be hear.d amongst your number we will commenoe on thos9
at onoe, or we will take the llet as lt le.
MR. CAESAR

~lmG:

I believe we are _read7 now. When they

get to talking too um.oh just oall them down. We are not gotna to
shoot them all at yon.

THE CH.AIF.l!Ali:

The question is, who are you going to oell

firat?

UP.. KLBBElRG:

We will call on Mr. Uorr1eon first.

(At this polnt all witneeeea present were duly
sworn by Ron.

w. M.

T1awe11. of the committee,)

7
Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 WILLIAM G. B. MORRISON,

of San Benito , fir st having been duly sworn , testified as follows :
EXAMI NATION BY l:R . BL.tlIDSOE, CHAIRMAN :
Q

Your name , please?

A William G. B. Morrison .
Q

Of what county?

A

Cameron County .

Q

What is your profession?

A

An attorney .

Q How long- have you lived in Cameron County?
A

Over seven years.

Q

Have you been engaged in the active practice during that

seven years?
A

Entirely .

Q

Of what character , general practice , or have you specified

in some lines?
A

General practi c e .

Q

You are acquai nted generally, not only with Cameron but

with the surroundi ng counties , o.nd conditions existing in that
section of the State?
A

Nith Hi dalgo and Cameron Counties .

Q

Have you known anything of the Hanger force in that county

or in these tv:o counties during the time of your residence there?
A

I have .

Q

Hovi many di f.~ erent Rangers have you Jmown?

A

I suppose I have known ten or twelve so that I spoke to

trem and they spoke to me , and a great many more whose naMes I
do not know but whom I know by sight .
Q.

Can you give us the names of any of those you have known

during that t i me?
A

Sone I have known are not no·.1 in the service.

Q

Give us the names of those you have knovm .

A

Boe Tayl or.

8 State Library and Archives Commission
Texas

 Q

Indicate those in service and those that are not.

A

Rock Phelps.

those boys quite we 11.

They are not now in the service.

I know

The Saddler boys. I know by sight.

They

are still in the service though I believe one of them died recently.
I know a Captain Stephens,

Captain Taylor, Captain Saunders,

Captain Hanson by sight, and some of them fairly well .
Hinojosa

by reputation very well.

I know

I know Edds by sight.

Several

others whose names I do not recall now, gentlemen.
Q

How many Rangers are usually kept in Cameron and Hidalgo

Counties?
A

There is usually one or two companies through those

counties.
Q

Do you know the number of men to a company?

A

I believe twenty men to a company.

Q

In those counties you usually have something like forty

Rangers?
A

It varies. Sometimes from a part of a company to two

companies,- depending largely upon the conditions.

Q

Do you refer to local conditions?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

Ynat local conditions do you have there to make it necess-

ary to maintain so large a Ranger force in that section?
A

The menace to the Hexican border and the unusual state of

unrest that has existed in Uexico for some years past, and the
fact that there is in l:Iexico and along our side a large number of
cattle thieves and men whom we might term outlaws, who are Mexicans
who slip back and forth across the river almost at will except as
they may be

prevent~d

by the Rangers, and then, of course, the

unscrupulous \11hi te folks who manipulate the illi te.rate Mexicans
and cooperate with the cattle thieves.
Q

Have the Rangers operated with the local authorities in

the enforcement of the laws of the State?
A
Q

Yes, sir.

Or, have
acted independently
Texas State Library
andthey
Archives
Commission of

local authorities?

 A

Well, that would be a sort of combination answer.

They

are an independent force, of course, as the Committee recognizes,
and, to a large extent, they operate alone, but my experience
bas been they very largely cooperate with local authorities
in those matters.

Is there a unity of action or friction between them and

Q

the local authorities in the enforcement of the law?

A

During our worst troubles there was a very close unity

of action between the local authorities and the Rangers and the
army.
I

Recently there has been considerable friction-that is,

speak for Cameron County.

Q

What is the cause of that friction?

A

The political conditions that obtain in Cameron County

and Hidalgo County.

Q

What character of men have been on the Ranger force

with reference to those located in those counties at the times
you speak of?

A

There have been many who were good men and true. I do

not mean to say.that they were all highly educated men by any means,
and there have been one or two who have been of not such good
caliber that I know of.

Q

With reference to being law abiding and conducting

themselves as peace officers should, what has been their conduct?

A

The greater portion of them are unobtrusive, go about

their own business and, except for the fact that they wear the
large sombreros and cow boots, you never would realize they were
Rangers.

They come into our city with their coats buttoned and

you don't know that they have a gun.

That is true of most of them

that I know.

Q

They make no special efforts to demonstrate that they

are Rangers?

A

No, sir.

Q

Don't play "bad men" generally?

Texas
0 State Library and Archives Commission
=

 A

No sir .

Q

V'i th reference to dissipating, what is their conduct?

A

I would say that there is an extreme difference, of

course, in the present day and the old days.

Tihen I first went
statio~ed

dovm there there was one company of Rangers

there

and usually a good many of the members spent the greater portion
of their time in the bar- room.

These latter days that has not

been the case, and, of course, we have not had saloon in our
town and through most of our county for some time, so that condition does not obtain.
(At this time

w.

D. Cope, Assistant Adjutant General appeared

before the Committee and Chairman Bledsoe stated to him the
following:

"Here is a copy of the first specifications filed

by Mr. Canales. tie stated to General Harley yesterday that we
would file them with your department.
filed.

These charged have been

If you gentlemen desire to be heard we will hear you at

any time.

We will hear evidence under each of the charges made

and we will be glad to have a representative of the department
to hear this examination at any and all times. "
(MR. COPE:

Thank you.

THE CHAIRMAN:
THE \''IT NESS:
Q

Had you finished your answer?
Yes, sir.

Say, in the last two years, to what extent have the

Rangers been drinldng and disorderly in anc around your county?
And in Hidalgo County, so far as you knov
A

p e~sonally?

In the last t\.o years I think I ca n honestly say that I

have not seen a disorderly Rang er.
Q

Have there been any co "'lpla in ts made

u t_; ,

i nst them for dis-

orderly conduct or for drunkenness that has come to your personal
attention in that time?
A

Not in my county.

l.Ir. Canales ca lled my attention to

one in Duvall County since I have up here this week.
~

You think local conditions there are su.ch that the main-

tenance of a large Ranger force on the border is absolutely
necessary?

Texas StateA Library
and
I think
so.Archives
Not onlyCommission
for the benefit

of our country but

 for the entire State.
Q

You do not think that the local authorities are suffi-

ciently organized or are capable of taking care of conditions
existing on the border there?
A

I think not.

They do not .

Q

In your judgment, is that because of their unwillingness

to enforce the law or inability to do so?
A

I

think it is partly due to several reasons, one of

which may be due to political conditions, the other due to the
fact that it is almost imponeiblc for a sheriff to maintain a
sufficient number of paid deputies to handle all of these matters over the vast extent of border that we have.

Cameron is a

very lsrge county and Hidalgo is quite large, and right bacir of
thet we have this practically uninhabited country that extends
up as far as almost to Kingsville.

There are several good

counties in between but the country back of there is most all
pasture land and part of it is sandy desert.

If you get off of

the road and don ' t know the country you can wander around there
for several weeks and starve to death.

And then the fact that

these cattle thieves and outlaws operate back and forth across
the river and from one county to another, it makes it a very
difficult matter for county officials--oounty officers to handle.
Q

Do you think any change should be made in the personnel

of the Ranger force, so far as you know, at this time?

A

I think there are some Rangers that certainly should be

removed from the force .
Q

Why?

A

I know of one myself that is a man who is not of such

character as should be on the force.

However, I believe he is

no more than the kind that could be expected to serve on ·the
force at forty dollars a month, or whatever wages they are paid
at this time.
Q

Could you give us his name?

Yes; Daniel Hinojosa.
Texas StateALibrary
and Archives Commission

 Q

You think he is not the kind of man who should be in

charge of enforcing the laws of the State?
A

Not unless he has improved wonderfully since I have known

Q

Do you know how long he has been on the force?

A

I have learned through Captain Hanson who was in the

him.

office the other day, that he was on the force and stationed in
Duvall county at the present time.

Q

Is he a dissipated man?

A

He did drink a great deal.

Q

Is he a man who has ever been charged with any felony

as far as you know?
A

He has never been officially charged, no, sir.

Q

Is he a man that is generally an undesirable character?

A

Had that reputation in our city.

Q

Had the general reputation of being an unreliable and

not a law abiding man?
A

Yes, sir.

Q

Hov. many men have been killed in your city during the last
1

five years? ---- \those command is he in now?
A

I think he is in ·capt. Hanson ' s company.

that by hearsay.

I just have

I might add further that Capt. Hanson and

the Adjutant General were surprised to learned of the reputation
that he bore, or, at least, said they were, and said he was engaged in some special work and they would dispose of him immediately.
Q

You have recently called their attention to it?

A

Our San Benito people---

Q

V-hen did they make this statement to you?

A

A day or so ago.

Q

Was Capt. Hanson in the city then?

A

He was then;

Q

In this city, in Austin?

11

Yes, sir.

Q

He was here and you discussed the matter with him?

I haven ' t seen him since .

A
13 State
i~e discussed
it with the
Adjutant General.
Texas
Library
and Archives
Commission

 Q

Did you discuss it with Capt. Hanson too?

A

He was present . I don ' t remember that we discussed it

particularly.
Q

He heard the charges made?

Does he have the reputation

of being a "killer" or just unreliable?
A

Just an unreliable, undesirable character.

Q

V.nat did Capt . Hanson say about this man whe n you told

him about the char acter of man he was?
A

He said he was surprised to know that .

Q

\~'hat

did he say about the retention of him in his com-

mand?

A

He said they·would dispose of him just as soon as he

finished some

~ork

that he was then engaged on and had nearly

completed .
Q

\That work, if any, do you know that he was doing?

A

I don ' t know .

Q

Just sa i d some special work on which he had been assigned?

A

Yes, sir .

Q

Who else do you know on the Ranger force that should not

be there?
A

None of them. Other criticisms I have heard are entirely

hearsay to me.

I don ' t know that those things happened.

Q

In the charges you heard this man, - -what do you call

A

Hinojosa.

Q

Hinojosa, he is charged with on or about November 16,

him?

1918, - - George B. Hurst and Daniel Hinojosa discharged their
pistols on the streets of San Diego, - Do you lmow this man Hurst?
A

No, sir.

Q

Never have seen him?

A

I may have seen him but I don ' t know him.

Q

Have no personal acquaintance

A

No, sir.

Q

Do not know what character of man he is?

~ith

Texas
1 .. State Library and Archives Commission

him?

 A

Ho , sir .

Q

Have you any personal information

abo~t

his incident

of them being drunk end shooting up the to1m?
A

:No , sir .

Q

He is the

onl~

man on the force you lmow that you think

oueht drn be re noved f'or the good of the force?

up :

A

~hat

is the only one I blow, yes , sir .

Q

You say that thc:r car1e to to'\m with their coats buttonod

Do they make a

prac~·ice

in that country of going around

town in their shirtsleeves e.::hibi ting their arsenals and belts
of cartrid[;es?

A

In the

su.r~~er

time it gets

~uite

hot and rie frequently

run around in our shirtsleeves .
am speaking nov: of the Rangers?

Q

I

A

I can only five you the information I have .

remember the Ransers pa:radine that country with their

I don ' t
a.rtiller~~

a1splayed particularly so that it is very noticeable .

Q

It is not the usual cuatom then?

A

l'To , sir .

Q

.Jo they

c~rry

any other a.rms ordinar'lhly than just their

piDtols?
A

I frequently see them going out on horseback v:i th their

Winchesters in a boot under the saddle .
Q

:Jo you ever see them carrying their Winchesters around

tO\m in their hands?
A

lTcver except in times of emergencies that we had d.o\m

there v1hcn most of us carried g1ms around .

a

Do you know this man J . ~. Edds?

A

I k:no17 him by sight.

Q

You have :::o personal acq_uaintancc '\7ith him?

A

lro . sir .

Q

\that is his general reputation?

A

It seems to be good , so 1·ar as I lmow of hin' .

Texas
15 State Library and Archives Commission

 Q

Do you 1.rn.oVT Royal Collins?

A

Ho , sir .

Q

Do you know anything of the circumstances of his being

charged with killing

a man at

a ranch near Rio Grande City?

A

Only by hearsay.

Q

You know nothing of it personally?

A

I:To , sir .

Q

Made no personal investigation?

A

:No .

Q

Do you know Capt .

A

Yes , by sight .

Q

Vhat kind of a man is he?

A

I judge him to be a very fine gentleman •

.Q

Matters told me by Wrr . Canales .

u.

L. Wright?

Do you know Capt . W. M. Hanson?

A

I knov.r him by &ight .

Q

What kind of a man is he?

A

I have tal1rnd :vi th him a good deal; he seems to be a

thoroughly reliable c i tizen .
Q

Do you think they are both men who can safely be retained

in the service of the State?

A

I imagine they could .

In fact , I could endorse them .

Q

Do you know Ranger Locke?

A

llo , sir

Q

Do you know Saddler?

A

The Saddler boys I knew by sight .

Q

Did you

A

No , sir , I don t t know him .

Q

Do you Jmo\7 Captain Stephens?

A

I have met Captain Stephens in San Benito and Austin.

Q

What do you think ought to be done with the Ranger

Si ttler?

kno~-;

force for the betterment of the service?

(

A

I t'_ink that first their wages should be increased so

that they get a living
offices and the men .

~age

and

gr~duated

according to the

My honest notion is that the Ranger privates

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

1h

 should got not less

tha~

9100 . 00 a month and their allowance

Hhen off on duty for feed , etc .

Then I believe there should be

some system of a sliding so.ale increase , such c.s they have in
the army .

11or

inst~nce ,

five them a ten per cent . increase

for every so - many years of service until certain maximums are
reached and thcrby induce a man to remain in the service and
build it up to the service that can be done , that we can be
prolild of , and be thoroughly efficient and attract the best :peace
o ~'ficers that we have .

Q

Do you think that any man who is under conviction for a

felony , even though his a_ase is pending on ap:._;eal , should be
retained in the service?
A

I think tha-.: should be held in abeyance until that matter

is decided .

Q

You think he ought to I e retained or suspended fron

service? pending the appeal?
A

If I were in command I

Q

Do you think a man who is an tU1pardoned. convict sh0uld

thin~r

I should suspend. him .

be in the service?
A

Ho , sir .

a

How many men have been killed by Rangers in your county

in the last five years?
A

I don 1 t

~

Can yo 1. a ppr oximat e it?

A

lfo , sir .

:lal.0;7.

rumors dovm there .

There are all sorts of violently conflicting
The enemies

o~

the Rangers accuse them of

killing anywhere from one hundred to five thousand , and we know
that during our troubles

do~m

there that there were a great many

fights in which both the citizens and the Rangers took parts and
I am inclined to beli eve that the citizens and the Ra-1gers killed
probably some innocent people in the excitement .

·:re

\7ere almost

in a terror- stricken down ther , and. of thecc innocents ,
I should inagino the citizens killed just as

Texas
11 State Library and Archives Commission

Pl 0

ny as any Rn.nger .

 Do you think there has been any wanton or wilful killing

Q

by any member of the Ranger force in your country?
A

Uot that I know of .

Q

Have you any reason to Jelieve that any of the killings

of \':hich you have heard have teen llantonly and wilfully done by
the Rangers?
A

Uo , except from general conversat ioll , there has been a

great deal of critici;;,m of Captain Ransom, now deceased .
Q

CaT'\t.ain Ransom uas the man who was killed at Swcctvmter

some time ago?

A
pany ;

Yes .

I have never been out uith Captain Ransom ' s Col!l-

I don ' t know as to ·Lhat .

of him and

There was considerable criticism

a· great deal of criticism 0£ some of the things that

he did.

~s

Q

Have you heard any critie ism of any other member?

A

1.o , sir .

Q

You have not other man down there who has been recognized

being an unnecessary killer?
A

l'o , sir .

Q

Do you thin3: the Raneer force should be under bond?

A

I

Q

Why not?

A

It is my notion that it would limit their efficiency.

do~ ' t

hhink they should?

It may be that it would not work out that uay but my notion is
that

under 'tho ccndi tions that prevail alo!fg the ?.io Grande

riv er that any such system would limit their efficiency and
limit their VTOrk, the kind o:f
Q

1

ork in which they _arc engaged .

You moan limit their efficiency or limit their ability

to get me to

t~ke

the position?

A

It would do both .

Q

Don ' t you think it would put a higher class of men on

the force?
A

I don 1 t think you would accomplish any greater end

Texas
18 State Library and Archives Commission

 by puttin a bond on them than you \;ould by a strict regulation
of the men employed and paying them proper wages .
Q

Have you any s1lggestion to make as to the change in

the method of hadling and irmncd.iate control o:f the men on
the Ranger force?
A.

I have -ueen puzzline; over it for sometL:ie e.nd have not

arri vcd at a satisfactory solution mys el:.'.

T'"owever , some

regulatory system , I believe , should be ueviscd which should
satisfy the Legislature and some other people who have complained
in the Northern part of the State .
bond system is th

Q

However , I do not think the

system that rTould acconrplish that.

We++ , "rihat 1.70Uld you suegest as to the change in the

method of handling them?
A

I do not lmov1 what regulation the Adjucant General and

the Governor have laid dovm for the employment or for their
course or conduct 1Then they are in the field .

I believe that

should be carefully visecd and e~pecially I believe that the
Rangers are a military force .

They are designated under our

present statute , if I rememucr correctly, as having all the
authority of a peace officer , but the moment you impose upon a
military force , ITho must of neces:::.i ty do things right n0\7 , the
limitations im1)osed upon a constable or a sherilf , I believe
their efficiency would ve hampered.

It has occured to me that

some s¥stem along the lines rercmbling our industrial accident
insurance or our war risk insurance might be dmvised whereby
premiums to be paid by the Rangers to the State-- the State under"''
writing the risk, if that could be .
constitutionality of it.

I have not looked into the

Somo syste.n like that , - and that v;ould

also insure a very careful selection of men and in the event a
Ranger is t1uod upon, for some violatio~1 of the law or interfering
\7i th the rights of some citizen to the extent that he i s entitled
to monetary damages that the defense be handled for the-- - the
suit could be brought ag-.inst the Ranger and the defense be
handled throu~h the legal department of the ~tate , of necessary

Texas
1 \) State Library and Archives Commission

 to secure a just verdict , and bring the case up here for trial
and the Attorney General defend a:n.y recover y that might be had,
paid out of the fu.r..ds accw1lated under Juhis system.

:S:o11ever ,

I thin}: that that risk will be very largely eliminated by
getting the right sort of men and paying the right sort of 11ages .
~fe

do not have that_ t rouble with our police force in our cities .

Q
tha~

You keep referring to rcasing their wages .

Do you think

vvo"P.-ld be materially improve the personnel of the present

Rongcr force by tho payment of an aderuatc salary?
A

Yes , sir .

Q

You do thinJr that we have sone men on the force that

should not be there?
A

I am inclined to believe that there arc some nen that

should not be there .

There arc some miehty good men.

I

under ~

stand , some you find , the y are not that -- but so::le seem to be
mit,hty fine fellows ruid coJ.1scicntious men.

As I aay, they are

not \7ell educated men or anything like that but they are entitled
to

~

better wage than they do ·receive because they do daily risk

their lives and in a manner I would not care to do for a much
lv.rgcr smn.
Q

Uhat per cent of the membcr:J of the Ranger force dro you

think ought to be replaced \Tith more efficient men?
A

I have not the Jmowledc;c to say.

Q

Take those Tiith whom you have associated andbeen acquaint-

ed with .
A

Outside of this one I .have mentioned and several who have

since-- \7ho have left the service before this time , I do not lmov1
of any others personally.
Q

Hou many real bad men do you lmow who have left the

Ranrcr service in the last few months?

the

A

I don 1 t !:110i7 of any of them .

Q

Say in the last year?

A

I don 1 t 18.0VT Of any of them .

Q

There has ... e:e.n no real bad men do"m in your conntry in

Ran~cr

fo r ce exce)t this one Hex· c:::n?

20Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 A

I don ' t know o:: o:ny of them , no .

Q

The others have been first class men , law

abidi~g

citizens?
have b e en law abiding men .

A.

~1 hey

Q

A credit to the peace

A

They have done 11cry ·well , indeed .

Q

Any other member of the Committee want to ask him?

o~ficors?

EXJ\.i)'IINATIOH BY I11R . TIDWELL, o:f ELLIS

COU1~TY .

Q

About what size is the to\m of San Benito?

A

San Benito has between four thousand and five thousand

peop le .
Q

About

~·hat

percentage of that :populat ·on is

~.1exican

and

what .Anglo- Saxon or .American?
A

In the torr.!l I sho1 ld thin1r ab out one- hald :.iexican and

one- half Arnericans .
Q

You knou a goo( many ladies of that tovm, do you not?

A

yes , · sir .

Q

Jhat is , so far as you have been able to hear , the general

reputation of this 2anger force among the high- toned i.adies of
tho tO\m of San Bcnito?

Arc they knovm as rufi'ia.ns or are they

looked upon as protectors of the home s of the to\m?
A

They are not throvm toBethcr a g r eat deal , Judge , but

spenki'.g for m;y· omi family and the families uith -;:-'b:.ch I am
'

throvm in contact· sociall ,

"' l e

1001r

upon the _.angers as more

or less of a God send to our Valley.
Q

~ hat
1

is the notion of tho ladies you have heard a.iacuss

the matter?
A

Yes , sir .

~

Have you known of any events , incidents o:r happenings

in r1hi ch the '?allfer force attempted to obstruct the ad..rninstration
of the civil or criminal la': and at which they \lGre at variance
with the p eace of'ficers i:n inforcing the civil or criminal la s
of your country?

21

A

lTo , sir .

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 :iX..L -rllAT:O:N BY :rm .

Q

~IJ.CMILLAlT '

OF GRAYSOIT COUlTTY.

You spoke of one rtanger , you thought he ought to be

discharged from the service .

I don ' t remember his name .

A

Yes , Sir .

Q.

}le is a man of Capt . Hanson ' s com any?

A

I believe he is .

Q

You discussed his undesirability with the Adjutant Gen-

eral and Capt . Hanson since you have been in this c ity?
A

Yes , sir .

Q.

And they exuressed surpri se that he was still in the

service?
A

~1 hcy

expressed surprise that he had that re-outation.

Q

Capt . Hanson expresced surprise although he was a member

of his company?
A

Yes , sir .

Q

~/hat

is you:c opinion about a man who has another in

cho.rB'e and probably has had for a long time and doesn 1 t lrnou
anything about his reputation?

Do you think that is :tiretty good

public pea.icy?
A

Hell , I would not employ any one without first making

inquiry as to him , as to the place Tihere he had previously lived .
T

owevcr , we must conside the fact that there is a :.?OSsibili ty

that hhis Ranger might not nave disol sed his previous 9lace of
residence .
Q

.:30th Capt . Hanson and this Ranger had been located in

that secticm of the country for qui to a 'Hhile?
A

I don ' t 1mow ,

I have only seen Capt . Hanson dorm in the

Valley once .

Q

You understood that t hosc Hangers were in the Valley and

rv.ther permanently located ther0 and were r.'lembers of Capt . Hanson ' s
company?
A

J.To , Capt . Stephens ' company has been there and I thinJr:

C ..)t . Ta....,.lor ' s men are there at present .

Texas
State Library and Archives Commission
2~

. e tave had some of

 Ca'Jt . ·.·right ' s men there c.nd Ca"l')t . Baundcrs ' •

Q

Prom Capt .

Hanso'1. ' ~

expression he vas unaware of the

reputation of th:.s man?
•

Yes , sir .

A

Eli 'II!ATION :BY SENATOR

Q

ILLI1!10RD :

You spoke of there being sometimes as many as two com-

panies in

C~eron

County and Hj.dalgo County:

What i s the range

of' those corn1?anics?

A

Along the river fron the mouth of tho river t o Hidalgo

line nI}7Bt be seventy- five or one hundred mil s ; along IIidalgo
County i

probe.blu from sixth to eiehty or ninety miles , and

Hidalgo County is equally lane; , -- Cameron 001. nty, there mi. st be
ab ut sixty miles from 13rounsvillc to the coPnty lin e .

Q

I will ask this (1uesticu :

·1ow, :if you J.:no11, do violators

or \!O"t;.ld be violato r s of the lau in that so dtion
!langcrs and peace officers generally?

.

loo~r

on the

Do _they have a high res -

poet for the Rangers?

(

A

The le.vr vi0lr.i.tors?

Q

Yes?

A

~1 hey

arc scared to death of the ?.angers .

"-·

~hey

a.re looked on as men uho strictly enforce the la'7 ,

I ?;lean by \70uld be v io lators , as UJ.-iderbtood generally?
~4.

I run ·1ot a criminal lawyer so I

ui th outlaws but it is

m~~

haven ' t r.mch acquaintance

O"'"'inion and my W?lpression that Rangers

have a very restraining influence upon the Hexican and i7hi to men
that might :>ecome outlaus but the Ranger hai: put the ::'ear of God
in those that are .

Q

You think the i r presenc e there tends , at least , to have

a good effect on the morals of tho CoTntry?
o~

A

I am very

Q

The very fact that they

A

Yes , sir .

S1!.re

it ,
a~e

stationed there?

That is illustrated , if you ".Till permit !Je ,

by the fact , durir..g the mobilization uc had at one point in

2J State Library and Archives Commission
Texas

 Hidalgo County about 20 , 000 soldierB; in San

~enito

we had

5 , 000 and in Brovmsville they had 10 , 000 State troops and
regular troops , and time and time again these bz.ndits would
slip upon these camps stationed along the river and d.i::':fcrent
outposts and. shoot up these men and get away '\"Ti th it , and they
seemed to regard a soldier as more or less of a joke although
there is not question there Yms an enormous moral force , for the so
would be bad men would run into soldiers at evcrw change in the
road , but the only time they ran agai.nst a Ranger or ever tackled
a Ranser in \7hen they have them dead- to- rights and can shoot them

in the back.

·:hen the Rant;ers come in the little grape- vine

tclee;raph system that exists among Mexicans , goes along in the
underbrush , God .only Jmows hos , the fact gets ::nown that the
Rangers are here and it has a very salutory
:XAl.IHL.iTimI BY

ihat would

Q
o~

e~fect .

:i.m. TID~.":JLL :

pe the length from the beginning of the mouth

the Pio Grand as fas as those two companies go , what would

be the distance or the territory

tho~;e

tow compani es cover?

A

You mean by the meanders of the river?

Q

Yes .

A

Over tITo hundred miles .

C.

Do you Jmou anything of the c i rcumstances and facts sur-

rounding the train ITreck when t he eng ineer
A

iW.. s

killed there?

I was at the train soon aft<.;ruards as '7e could get there

in an automobile , in fact , the nord came to myself and to the
Secretary of theChamber of Commerce

\'1l10

uas sitting up that

night and ue had been talking for n considerable time vrhen the
word came .

Q

I s there any suspicion or anything you suspect that the

Rangers had anything to a..o uith the ,.,recking o: that train or
that the bandints ITere the ones?
A

Q

le were

practicall~..

certaih that the bn.ndi ts did it .

About how far did that wreck occur from your home ?

24 State Library and Archives Commission
Texas

 A

Something about ten miles from San Benito .

Q

~hose

bandits

surposed to be in hiding in that

~ere

community?
A

In that territory or thereabout.

Q

Did the soldiers make an effort to run those bandits

• ?.anger force attempting to
do1m or uas the
A

They both tried .

run them down?

I think the Rangers captured all the

men that vere tried .

Q

You spoke about assembling soldiers at Brovmsville , about

ten thousand , I believe there were :

the bcndi ts , you sa. , some-

times made u. raid on their outposts .

Diel the bandits , from \7hat

you can

gather_~

have riore fear of the Rangers operating 1:1hen

they would go on those raids and dcprede.ting tours or "7ould
they fear the soldiers would capture them?
A

~hey

have a greater fear of the Rangers .

Q

Do you 1mow of any friction betueen the Rangers and tho

soldiers?
A

The contrary., I think a very real admiration exists

in the hearts of the officers of the army lfior the Rangers .
Q

Do you

A

I :-::n.ow many officers

Q

Do you

A

I have met him several times .

Q

He was one of the men that 1:ent out on the road when they

k:nOYl

kn0\7

any officers of tho arm:r at :S111onnsville?
Oj

various ranks .

Captain Conser?

made a raid on tho soldiers at one time?
A

He was on duty there .

Q

Which line of service was more effective in running them

down , Captain Conger ' s cavalry or tho Rangers?
A

The Rangers .

Q

Very well .

A

I have been out on the river after dark, and there is now

o erating a cavalry

I can tell you why if you nill permit me .
~hat

~atrol

is what

up

~nd

1·10 i7ant

to

1mov1.

do,,n the river , and , of course ,

we know the soldiers operate under certain orders and for half

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 ~n

hour or more before

t~is

cavalry patrol do'\7ll the line , if

there are s vcral men , you can hear its clatter , clatter and
the crunch of leather and the rattle of accouterments.and it is
obvious to any one that here comes the cavalry pat rol , and if
I -rrere r unning cattle or doinr; somet· ing out of the way I know
, I

could escape befor e they got ther , and , on the other hand , the

Ranger is used to that country, used to

t~~cking ,

used to

~exas

and the roads , and he la1ows the Mexicans , and you are just as
apt to run slap- bang on to him \'Tithout seeing him as not .

Q

Do you

1~1ow

of any Rangers that have been indicted in

Cameron County for murder of any citizen or for any crime?

A

In the city e.11d Tiasn 1 t suspected?

Q

I say do you Jmow of the murder of any citizen or any

man by a i'exas Ranger when in truth and in fa.ct the person might
have been murdered or killed by some one else?
A

:rot ·oersonally.

BY THE CHAIIDlWJT:
Q

HoTI many Rangers are under indictment in Cameron and

Hidalg o vountics at this time?
A

I don 1 t keep mu.ch track o:f the criminal docket but I

don 1 t hink there are any ui1der indictment in Cameron County.

Q

Are there any in Hidalgo?

A

I could not say.

Q

Have you ever cno'.:n of a Ranger be· ng convicted dovm

I have not hea1dr of it .

there for anything he did?
A

I don 1 t rcmcmlier any in Cameron Comity and I have not

heard of it in Hidalgo .
~1 1IE

CF..AiillIDr : That is all •

IlIR .

l.i ...

1

.!.

--.!iL S: :.:a;>- I have :;:ermission to ask s o 1e questions?

HE Cil.AIR ...dlT :

f."nat is the disi1osi tion o:: the Committee \7i th

reference to the examination?

Shall it be conducted by the Com-

mittee or shall Mr . 0analcs be permitted---

2()

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 SENA:!OR \'!ILLI: ORD :

I think he should have the right to

ask ques-i;ions , \:hcther they should be asked through the Committee or by himself?
.L HE

'.rhat is all I am asking the Comrni ttee to

ClIAIR!iA.r:

1

determine nou .
S

.NA~OR

iILLIFORD :

I move iilr . Canales be permitted to

ask questions .
MR . '.L1ID'.f.&LL :

Reserving the right of the committee to strike

out such parts of questions as they may thing nro)er .
~HE

CHAI?'"T.AH:

EXA..\U

Q

.!i th that limitation, go ahead , I.Lr . - Oanales .

.A.!IOH co::rnuc.i.1:8D BY

i.~ .

CAHA'.fi~S :

That Ranger dovm there , Hinojosa , is it not a fact that

he nas 3onstable in San Benito during 1915 when tho beginning of
the bandit trouble started?
I am not sure

A

/hether he i7as then constable or night

watchman .
Q

And 1!1rank Carr uas the City l.larshall , wasn ' t he?

A

Yes , sir.

Q

!lo you 1 no,·1 \7hethcr he had anythini.r, to do '7i th the first

l;>...-nching there done by some officers and so. ne mob near San Benito
--north of San Benito ,
A

I do not

k110\7

011

the way to Brownsville?

the.t of my :perBonal lmowledge .

various conflicting rumors ui th '"eferencc
Q

~Vasn ' t

There were

to it .

that t c general rumor ; that v1as o;>en and notorious

dovn therfi, 'msn ' t

~ t?

A

Yes , the hanging uas .

Q

Do you

~:non

A

Carr?

·1

Q

And if you do , state what his connection i7as?

A

You mean Daniel?

Q

Daniel?

A

The circu.msatncos were ext~emely sus:)icious ; there was a

'7hether he had sometni.ng to do with it?

2 1State Library and Archives Commission
Texas

 suspicious Hexican character arrested at San Benito and the city
I

.

marshal and Daniel Hinojosa started to take this man to Brownsville in an automobile after dark and the man was afteruards

~ound

hanging to a tree vith his body riddled uith bullets , and they told
the story th<lt they ·:,'Ore held up on the road by some armed men
and told to get out of the car and they got out and stood by the
side of the road , covered by guns , and these mo took the Mexican
away and the men that held them up told them to "beat it to hell
out of he::c:e . "

Q

This man , do you know his name or do you remember it if

I mention his no..rne?
A

The Mexican?

Q

Yes .

A

I think that VTas his name .

Q

Is it not a fact that uas the beginning of the bandit

'"todo lfo Munoz?

trouble ·in 1915 , that \'7'£•,s the fi rst incident?
A · I thiny that was the spark that fired the

~lame

among

the white peo1 ie •
Q

Is it not

a fact that this man wa.. arrected in San Benito

and ~ept there all the day and the officers never attempted to
take him to 3roi:r.nsville until after de.rk?
A

That is true .

Q

They could have ta1rnn him on the afternoon train or they

could have taken him o:n the noon train but they choose to take him
after dark, about midnight?
A

They di that ; they gave as excuse the fact they vrcre

afraid the citizens would take him out of jail and hang him .

Q

Isn ' t it a fact this same Daniel Hinojosa was indicted

together ui th ]1rank C&.rr for running a gambling house and participating in gambling ent erprises in San Benito?
A

·I do not know hou the indictment read , but my recollection

of' it is thut Daniel Hinojosa and Brank Carr were indicted for

Texas
28 State Library and Archives Commission

 levying tribute upon the :1cxican l.Lousci;; of ill fame .
I

Q

Hothing uas done with that case , uas there?

A

lTot that I know of .

Q

~hey

A

I do not believe they have ever been tried .

Q

Is it not a fact that the conduct of this Daniel Hinojosa

wore indicted but not tried?

is notorious not onlu in San Benito but practically all i n
Cameron County?
A

I only know his reL)utation atound San :Benito , Joe .
(4t this po i nt a recess vras taken from 11 : 20 u...~til

11 : ..5.5 , excuning Senator Page and
~cried

enator Williford during that

of time . )
(2.:xamina.tio:n of Vim . G. B . I.1orrison resUL1ed by :1r . Canales . )
(At rcCj_uest of :.:r . Canales the l:;.st prededing questions

and the answer thereto ucre read by the stcnogrcpher .
Q

Do you !mo-r; whether Capt . 'V . M. Hanson is vrell acquainted

with all that border from .)rovmsvillo and Laredo , having served
~.larshal?

for many years as U. S. Marshal and deputy U. S.
A

I beliGve he is familiar uith the c0untry.

Q

With regard to the condi t · ona that you

mentio~1ed

for the necessity of tho Rangers ; you mention one
on

acc~unt

o~

there ,

them as

of the iilefficiency of our county officers now to

enforce the lans there .

Is :not the chief and main reason fol' them

that?
A

No , I don ' t think so .

Q

lTo\7 Mr . Ilorrison , is it not a fact that for the enforce-

':r.10nt of the smuggling lavlS that the Unite States Govorment keeps
and maintains a very able and very numerous force of revenue
off icers all along t hat border , and backs them wi th the soldiers ?
A.

~hey

Q

Is it not a fact that in 1915 , during this t rouble , there

have their River Guards and Revenue Officers , yes , sir .

rras a post along from tuenty soldiers to -f'our comuanies stationed
alo"1t_, the river

~ron

u rownsville to

idaleo , up to Rio Gra11de City1

Texas
29 State Library and Archives Commission

 A

Ycs , sir .

Q

Is it not a fact , also , that this United States Goverment

has a mounted force of inspectors who are very com-"etent men ,
ridinf on horseback and are uell a cquainted Tiith the t r ails there;>
A

They

~ave

knovr all of them.
Q

many men who

~ire

well acquainted .

I don rt

That i s too bro ad .

Is i t not a fa ct als o that hose offi cer s , the mounted

inppectors and also the i 1m11igr ation inspe ctors r i de a l l a l ong
the border constantly, l oo 1dne; for v iolators or our i mn1i g:eation
laws , as nell as the revenue lav1s?

A

That is the i r duty, yes , sir .

Q

r:ov,

you mention that the only bandits , - persons that

were guilty of i7recking that train wore arrosted by Rangers ;
is it not a "act that the only bandits who \Tore arrested Ulld
convicted for that outrageous

affa~r

were t rro ki ll:d by Li eut .

Benata at San Pedro r anch tno d.ays after this affair and that
the others ,-,ere arrested by the deputy sheriffs of the county
and two of them wc-:ce hung for that offense?
A

Ho , I am not certain as to that .

:.Iy notion

\laS

that

there had bot;!' many a :vrests in conne ction v1i th that and a great
many of the supposed
Rangers arrested

s o~e

perp~trators

excaped entirely and that the

of ther'.1 and that some of the1:i \ier e appre-

hended t\r ot.gh the sher iff ' s office in conjunctipn -r1i th the
Rangers .
Q

Don ' t you :.:noi;1 that all tho so apprehended by the Rangers

on the scone were found deed next day about four mi l es f r om
Brownsville ?
A . Mo , I d on ' t know that .
Q

Don rt you know .there r1Cro four bodies f ound. dead about

four miles north of Bromisville that were arrested by the Ran-

- s c ene o:f action the follo\1-.ng day a.21d the i r
eers on the very
bodies left unburied until the 3rovmsville citizens r a i sed

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 srufficient funds to have them buried?
A

I knov:1 there vrnre some bodies found around Bro\lllsville

at differe·'t times l;>ut .I don ' t know a s t h that fact .

Q

The only persons who were put to trial as being impli-

cated in that outr ageous affair were those arrested by the
deputy sheri ffs and by th:; soldiers , vrcren ' t they?
A

I don ' t remembe r who they were and just what those

circunstances we r o , Mr . Canales .

Q

How, don ' t you be lieve that id we have good , efficient

peace officers , the sheriff with a corps of deputy sheriffs ,
and given sufficient

)O~er

to employ ·as many deputy shermffs , as

necessary , thaJG they can enfo ce the laws there in conjunction
with the aid given :from the Federal revenue o-fficers and i1m1igrati on
officers without the necessity of having any other morce?
A

i.

o , sir .

Q

"iliccept for·oxtraordinary cases?

A

No , sir .

Q

I am asking you , that ig the sheriff and his department

The best answer is , that they have not done it .

i::ould ve such a man as would enforce the laws and have de '"!Uty
sheriffs that would do so i h
operatio~

conjm ~ct

· on \Ii th and ui th the co -

of the ir.nnigration o=ficers and the revenue officers

o:f the goverment of the UI:ited Stctes , they uill enforce the laus
without tho necessity o= fnrther aid , except in extraordinary
cases , such es occured in 1915 .
1\

I will tell you how I will answer that .

Q

Ansvrnr "yes 11 or

A

The question ca .not b e answered

Q

A11swor in the affirmative or ltlhe negaJ·ive and then give

11

no rr and then ex )lain .
11

yes 11 or nno 11 •

your explanation.
A

It can be best ans\7erod i11 this vmy :

If you will give

us the Rangers who are disinterested and an average and honest
set of r!lcn , assist us to " lean up these thieves a::.1d outlm s that

Texas31State Library and Archives Commission

 lnfest the country , and cleo..n up these political conditions
t:Jith us , a few years fro"'l nou we can say to the Legislature
and the State of '.:exas , "Gentl"men, -.--;e don 1 t need your Rangers

or a large sheriff 1 s force . 11

Q

~hat

is exactly Tihat my question was intended for ,--

thut is was from extraordinar;1 conditions and on accow1t o±"
political factions , - if they i;rore removed and }')roper officers
were selected with sufficient power to C:rl]?Cb.oy proper

de,~uties

to the enforce the laws , except in such extraordinary conditions
as in 1915 , the laws c ould be enforced there without the neeessity of Rangers?
A

If some syste1~1 co~ld be diviscd whereby counties without

taxing themselves unnecessaril-T could omplo

a sufficient force

to operate through that entire country, yes .

Q

Do you :£:now in 1914 , 191J , during that bandit trouble

of the orgu:nization of the 1.Iexican .... couts \Tho O)erated with and
gave aid to the military force \/ho were organized there?

A

Yes , s ir .

Q

And paid for by the county?

..c\.

Yes , sir .

Q

:Jo you :::no'.7 who organized the.t?

A

.l

believe you ·.mre largely instru."lental in the organiz -

ation . l
Q

.Jo you :mo'\'7 that after that organization took place ,

'\"Ihich uas in the rirst part of :rovember , .... here was no :further
raid made in 1915 ,- there uas no further raid made in Cameron
County?
· A

My r emembrance i s that tho raids , as far as the different

tovms were concerned , ceased some17hct;e in October , al though there
were several attacks upon th0 soldiers &nd

01~~osts ;

whether the

organization brought it about or not I cannot say.
Q

The raid

~on

the trc..i.n \7as made about October 19th or

20th , uas11 1 t i t , some-;.'here abou.t th.<:.t , 1915?
It was made sonetimc just be~ore I ;nt.rricd , I remen er ,
.A

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 rnd I went from that excitement to get married , so that was
around October 23rd .
Q

That is what I said ,

MR .

'"'ID..L!l..L :

That is all .

You sated wr.iihe ago something a 1.Iexican

Q

suspect had been arrested and was

aft .Jr~;vards

carried by this

Mexican and some other person, the city marshal , I believe ,
start ;d to Brownsville:

Was that City marshal ever arrested

for participation in that lynching oJfi that 11.Iexican , i f he was
lynched?
A

He was n ot arrested on that matter .

Q

What became of him?

A

He left San 3enito and the last I heard of him he was

somewhere around Bay City .
Q

Who.t became of tris Mexican?

Was he a member of the

Rang)r force?
A

No , sir .

Q

At that time neither of them were Rangers?

A

No,sir .

QHAIRMAN BLEDSO.& : Q You spoke of being an at t orney: Do
you appear as representative of any inter est or merely as an
individual citizen?
A

Simply as an individual of Cameron County, at our own

e:l.."Pense •
int ~ rest

Q

Not representing any

at all?

A

No , sir.

Q

Having no int erest in .this matter except that of a good

law abiding citizen?
A

That is all .

MR . CANALES:

Q

With regard to your statement that by

giving a man better pay that you believe that that way will bring
bett :r men :

Do you believe if you pay a thug

~~ 150

a month that

he will cease to be a thug and_ be a respectable man?
A

No ; but if

Q

Wait a minute---

we

havJ---

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 A

But i f we have an Adjutant General ' s Department or

a Go vernor-- --- CHARIMAN BLJDSO.C: :
A

One man ta.Ht at a time.

I f we have an Adjutant Gener l ' s Department or a GovernDr

that v1ill hire thugs at that price the change ought to be made
not in the Ranger force but at the Car itol .
Q

Do you believe paying a man of the cbaracter of Daniel

Hino josa ~hoo or $ 1 50 a month , that it would change hi s characte r?

A

I would not rire him

That has never b een my argument .

at all .
Q.

You believe there ought

~o

be some regulation so as to

elimi nate the employment of such men and
by

t~en

attract good men

higher pay, ttat i s it, is it?

A

That is it .

I

prior to the time ti"a

~ill

8ay t h is for Daniel Hinojo sa , that

he took to drinking ancl running around

wjth that gang of suppoRed peace officers , Daniel was a mighty
good oficer and a very efficient one .
S..£1'lA'rOR 1,'IILLD,ORD :
~Vould

Answer this question direct , i f you can :

the lives and .1:-roperty of the citizens of 'fexas be safe

on the border wi tr.out the Hanf- Jrs or some other officers in their
plHces?
A

Ho , sir .

CHAI.R!'.Alf BL...illSO..:!i :
he became a

memb~r

Q

Did Hinhosa develop those traits after

of the Ranger force?

A

No , it was prior to that time .

Q

I say he developed those traits prmor to becoming a member

of the State Rangers?
A

Yes , s ir .

Q

At the time he was employed in the State Rangers he was

that kind of character?

34

A

Yes , sir .

Q

11ho employed him , do you lrnow?

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 lfo , sir .

A

CHAI.rll.tAN BL&DSO..cl: :

If there is no

c:P jection the Committee

will --MR .

CA~"'SOR KL~13

Before you a.dj·)urn I would like to add

·.RG :

the name of Judg e Mos es to that list .
CLAI RMLN

BL:.ID80~ :

Very well .

BL.L!.D S O~ :

Gentlemen , the Commi ttoe will now adjourn

We will add the name of

Judg e Moses .
CHAI.cl.tiAN

until t wo o 'clock . and v;e will ask the witnesses who desire to
be here to be here promptly.

,;e are go i n g to . try to expedite

CU tt ) rS •

(Whereupon the joint committee recessed unti l two o'clock

r . 1.: .',

:B'riday , January 31 , 1919)
I

AFTERNOON SES6 I Oif. CONV.h1NlID AT
TWO 0 ' CLOCK.

CHAI RHAN

BL.:!.!D ~ O~ :

MR . MORRISOH :

Who sha ll

vre

have next?

Mr lilerberg said he wanted Ur . Crawford to

go on .

A.

G.

CRA

~

F 0 R D,

having fir st been dul y sworn , t c::-: tified as f ollows , to-wit :
EX.AMI NE.mION by CHAIRMAN

Q

BL JID S O~ .

State your name.

A A. G. Crawford .

Q

What is your age?

A

Forty- five .

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 ~

Where do you live?

A

Mercedes .

Q

ifhat County.

A

Hidalgo .

Q

How long hava you lived in that county?

A

Six years .

Q

What business are you in , or occupa tion?

A

r·have been in the garage business.

Q

Are you ac quatint ed with the Ranger fo rce who

ha~e

been

in that and ad joining counties during the time you have lived
there?
A

Quite a number of them, yes, sir .

Q

How many of them do you know personally?

A

Oh , I

Q

Have you known any of them at all i ntimately?

A

Quite a number of them, yes , sir .

Q

I didn ' t catch the County you said you lived in?

A

Hidalgo .

Q

What character of m8nconst ituted the Ranger force

wo~ia

say ten or fifteen .

~uring

the time you have know them?
A

A large percentage of the Rangers have been , I would

class as good men:i there haf' b een some that Zle call nrough necks"
but not a gr eat number of them.
Q

Do the local conditions down there

~ak e

it necessary

that a substantial number of Rangers should be maintained in
~-ou r

seation?

A

I t h ink so , yes , sir .

Q

Without detailing all of the circumstances making it

nec essary , are conditions similar to those you heard described as
exi sting in Cameron thi s mor ning?
A

Yes , just about .

Q

Are there any other conditions than those that have

b-een set out or de t ailed by Mr . 11orr ision in you county?

3()
Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 A

I don't think so.

Froceeding across the river and such

things as thatm as Mr . Morrison s et out .
Do you, or no t, have a large pereentage of outlaws

Q

w~o

infest and orerate in that section of the State?

A

Quite a numver of them that are on the other side of the

river now .
ope~ate

Q

But they do

A

Jes , they do; it is not as bad now as it has been , of

across the rivef?

course, before the Rangers came there and before the recent
trouble .

Q

Are your county officials able to take care· of the

situation there independent of the Ranger force?

it?

A

No , sir .

Q

To what do you attribute their inability to 0are for

Is it their inefficiency or just their disregard of their

official duties?

A

There is not enough of them.

in our county , a good office ,

~nd

We have a good sheriff

lots of his deputies are good

men but there is not enough of them.
Q

The local force is insufficient to care for the situation?

A

Yes , sir .

Q

Making it necessary to

A

Yes , sir .

Q

How many tlie

A

I would say as gentlemen ;

Ran~ers

m~intain

a number of

Rangers?

conducted themselves in that country?
my experience with them has

been that they conducted themselves very gentlemnly .

Q

During that time had you had any drunkenesss amon them?

A

We had one that left

and came back intoxicated.

Mercedes and came ht3me on a visit

This ·.va.s during the time Captain

Hansom was there and he wac a member of Capt . Ransom ' s company.
Be arrived on the noon train and left for
train .

Be w·.. s dischargeJ'immediately .

37Texas State Library and Archives Commission

hom~

on the after noon

 Q

',Jho wa s he?

A

I don ' t rememb er; he -::rnsn ' t around there very long .

Q

Pave you seen any other drunkenness?

A

No , sir .

Q

have you seen any disorderly conduct on the part of any

other ranger.
A

No , sir.

Q

Pave you ever known of any of them beating up anybody?

A

No , sir , personally I have not .

Q

Have you ever known of them cursing or abasing the c i tizens?

.tl

No , sir .

Q

Rave you over Zn.o\>'ll of any of thcri :tilling anybody?

A

Not

Q

As a matt8r of general inEormation , in your county?

A

Just rumor s .

ersonally .

People , some of the Hexican bandits whom

they captured , said t hat the Ran~ers captured them and t h en
the bodies were found our on some
Q

~f

f

the roads.

Tell us the names of any Hanger suspicioned o:: do i ng anything

of that kind?
A

Captain Ransom ' s C'omp_any was suspicioned at that time .

Q

State the names oi some of them .

A

Captain Ransom , Sergeant Reno , a.nd a r.an named Stillvrnll ;

that is about all the names I can call now .

Q

Ho~

It was during 1915 .

many men are there they are supposed to have arre ted
0

and then taken out and mundered thatr way?
A

I would say that all that I kn'lW of close a.rounP. was three .

That is , it

v1as

rumored that they had captured and

k5llled ~

Q

They were prisoners and then taken out and killed'?

A

Yes, they were pri soners at the time that the Military

and Sheriff's possee and also the Rangers-- but it was said
the Rangers did it but that was just a rumor.

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

38

that

 Q

Han'"'ome , of course , is de:·d?

A

Yes, sir .

Q

Where is Stillwell?

A

I don ' t know.

(Some one in the audi:a.nce stated that Stillwell was aead)
Q.

'ilhere was he killed?

A

rre was killed do\·m in that country .

·Q

You say that Stillwell is dead?

Witness: A I don ' t know .

I have been with the army for

eighteen months and away from that part of the country until
about a month ago and have lost track .
Do you knor1 w)Jat the conduct of the Tangers has '"' een /

Q

durin · the time , last year or eighteen months?
A

It has been good .

Mercedes;
w~s

Par~

of December and January 1 was in

that ''1as a. year afo , and at that time Ca1)tain Stephens

located there .
Q

Have you ever heard any men who are now c;onnected ni th the

force accused of killing anybody?

A

Not irt our part of the country , no , sir , I don ' t know of a

· thing .
Q

Did you know of anyone

killed any of their
No, sir .

Q

Do yon knou of any
Ran~ers

there nov; w]lo i Fl said to have

pri~oner s ?

A

to t).e

a own

rrii~conduct

whatever that the charged

down trere?

A

You mean down there now?

Q

Yes .

A

No , sir .

Q

1...na

yon don ' t recall now any man uho is alive that hs.s

been accused of killing their prisoners?
A

No, sir I don ' t.

Texas State Library and Archives Commission
--

 E.X.MIIF .:D BY SJNA':'OR WILLIFnRD :
Q

row <to law

abidin~

citi?.ens

1001~

on the

ilan~ers?

Do they look on them as outlaws and bad people or as detectives?
A

As detectives , emphatically ,

Q

Have

A

Yes , sir .

con~ i dence

UAI"IHrc:D 13Y Jilli .

si~ .

in them?

'I'IDiV~I.1L :

Q

What is your name?

A

Crawford .

Q.

Hr . Crawford , did Lhe Rsngers patronize your .c<ara.P.'e

when you
A

~ere

in the garage business?

Yes , they had their headquarters

ri~ht

across the street

from my place .

Q

Did you ever take them out in cars from time to time?

A

I have .

Q

What was their conduct when you took tberr. out?

·were

they quiet and peaceable officers or loud , boisterous , or was
their conduct such as v1ould intimidate the people ?
A

I have never seen them intimidate anybody .

Of course , in

e. rour·h way , I have seen them nck questions and question those
~exicans

wtiom they had reason to believe were bandits but t

never sa.v: a Rall£" er strike one of tr o so fell ow al 'though people
have sai0

t~ey

hsve.

Q Do they question those people after the same manner

the ether peace officers would

que~tion th~w

when they met them?

A

Just about .

Q

Or were they overbeoring nnd intolerant?

A

They were not.

Q

Would the fact that they

petroni~ed

you nnd your

influence you r testimony?

40

A

Not a bit .

Q

Do you kno·;; any o:f the ladies of your town?

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

~rra~e

 ~

Practically all of them.

Q

Fo"1

do the ladies regard the Rangers there , as a set

of outlaws or as
A

~rotectors

of theirhomes?

They do not regard them as outlaws at all .

They do

regard 1 them as pDotectors of their homes?
Q

That is all .

A

I want

~c

say, if I might , that there is a

gre~t

mnny

ladies who a.rive their oi;m cars around town who drove in and
out of this garage at the time tt .~se Rrn'"ers were stationed
there and I

nev~r

more respect tLan

seen anybody trat tr ·ated any lady -.·.ri th any
tho~e

men did , ano the men who had the repu.t-

ation of .Stillwell and Ransom are included in that ; they we13e
just as respectful as could be .
~l.UH8D BY S-1H:."OH 'MG..!: .

Q

Would you ree;ard Hanf!om as a Closirnba.e ci tizen , a man

who ought to be on· the Ra.nger force? a peace officer?
A

At· that time he we:s u man for the job?

Q

That was after he committed that ·nurder in Eouston?

A

I nev er heard about that .

Q

You never heard about that?

0

A

I have heard about i t .

Q

All right ; you kp.ow he was a murderer?

··A
Q

I have heard that .
You think a nmraorer was the fellow for the job is

that the idea?
A· How is that?
Q You thi nk t hat is the p:ibac e for a murderer?
A

I v1ould not class it as a murder.

Q

You say you think he vms t.he very man for the job?

A He was in that respect .

41

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 .r~XA1UN ~D

BY MH . UcMILIJ IN •

Q

You sa"Ld you have been in the army fo r about eightenn

months up to about a month ar.o?
Yes .

·A

dhat has been the situation for the p~st eighteen

Q

months you could not know that for you were away from home?
A

I was at home part of last December , a year ago , and

January, and h1 ebruary, in fact, up to about the :f i rst of Aprtl .
You have been away from homw, though , a s.:rood part of

Q

the time?
11

No , I left Mercedes at the beginning of the war, about

eighteen months , und then I was back about December , J anuary ,
1Pebruary and March .
Q

But the greP..tor purt of eighteen months you ha.we been

awa:] from home?
A

Yes , the biggest part of it.

Q

Then you could not know whether the Rorvice of these

Hangers have been satisfactory to the people or not1
A

I was in touch with them during four months I w~s back ·

there .

Q

But for foutteen months you were away from homYI and

could not possibly know what their services wero, could you?
A

Not during the tiMe I was away only from general reput -

ation .
CBAIRI.IAN BLifil)SO.!l: :

~

You say Fenry Ransom wa.a the right

man in the right place?
A

At that time , yes , sir , because it was very strenouE

times on the border at that itme and it took a man of his disposition to get along.
Q

It took a man wro did not mind goinR out and killing a

fellow if it was necessary?

42

A

Yes, I believe that would

Q

That is your ides. of it?

ve--

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 A

At that time it was pretty near that way .

go out on those roads and you

h~d

You had to

to be a fearless man to go

out on the roads; I don't mean necessarily to

k~ll

a man, but

he was absolutely fearless .
Q

That was the principal thing they were doing those

days , wasn ' t it?

A

If you ran on to those fellows you had to kmll them or

they would kill you .

Q

How many men do y6u know of that we re serving in that

country in

tho~e

days that had the reputation of being that kind1

We:ii , I don't knov1 anything about them until th 0y came

A

down tber e .
I am asking you about those you know .

Q

How ma.ny of them

d i d you knov· that had tl-.e reputation of bmlilng absolutely fearless ,
that would kill and kill quick .

A

I would say Captain Ransom and Stillwell are all I

can call right now .
~

Let ' s try to fix part of thi s responRibility on somebody

that is alive?
1Vell, I didn't know Captain Ransom very

A

lo~

or lonp at

the time .
~

Do you think it is fair to pass it up to the two men tha t

are dead?
A
th ~

They were good officers .

That i s ·:1hat I am trfling to leave

impression, and Captain RanRom was in command and Sergeant

Heno , I think he is alive, ho wa19 a good men down there at

that

time , and was with Captain Ransom at the time .
Q

You cannot tell us the name of any other man that was

in that crowd?
A

No , sir .

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 ·EY...AMINF.D BY SENATOR WILLIFO?n :
Ian' t it a fact that Captain Ransom run with the State

Q

guards and drilled with them and worked With them?
A

Yes, in military af:fairs.

Q

And helped them in every way possible?

A

Everything he could. The first time the posse came through

there, composed of Sheriff Baker and the possee and Rangers and
Captain Mee ~ of the Twelfth Cavalry who is now Brigadier General
in France and has just received the distinguished service cross,
they worked together structly during all that trouble.
CHAIRHAN BT.iEDSOE:

Q.

Do you know of any change to be made in

the personnel of the State Ranger force that would be of benefit
to the service?
.A

'flle men Vie have no,·, during the last few weeks I have

been there,are nice gentlemenly men .
Q

Do you know any men on the Ranger force to- day that

oueht to be taken off?

A

No, sir, I do not.

Q

How many men are on the force that you know personally?

\'"e have one hundred and ten men on the force to-day.

A

I

~ill

say I have seen only a matter of four or five

around 1.Iercedes recently.
Q

They are the only ones you know that are on the force now?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

You know of nothing that could be done to improve or

make their service better?
A

No, not those men that are there now.

Q

\llhat county is :Mercedes in?

A

That is in Hidaleo.

Q

You say you have never known of any of the Rangers being

charged v:i th murder down there?
A

44

No, sir, I have not.

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 ~

Do you rememver the circumstance , I am not sure of the

n ame but I think a Uexican by the name of Garcia , take . out
of jail and v1as i n charg? of Rangers and was found dead by
the s i de of the raad in thirty days aft0rwaras, shot all to
pieces?
MR . CANAL .!t"'S :

That was in Cameron Connty.

CEAIHMAN BL<illSO.ri::

No : that was another circumstance .

A

What time?

Q

I think some fifteen or

A

no , I don' t remember .

SENA~OR WILLIFO~D :

Q

~ixteen

months ago?

Have you any further interest or

motive i n this matter except for the benefit of the people
and lives and ti.ings of that kind?
A

That i s all .

I feel like if they taken the protectinn

of the Rangers we have there no;·1 avvay a lot of us might as well
l eave.

In fact , when I wao i n business if they han not 8ent

the Rane 1re and soldi ers there I would have had to walk out
for I was loosing business and I was afraid al:}. the. time .
MR . TID\V&L :

Would you be afraid to continu e your residence

there if they should abolish the Rangers •

•

A

I think it w·ould be dang-erous •

I think it \7oul d start

all over again .
Q

Indicate to the cor.imi ttee the ·vay in v;T:i ch you think

it would ve
A

dang~rous

t f the Ran ers should be withdrawn?

'.i.'he bandits and outlaws across the river now vtill come

on this side more .

Of

cours~

i f you stay around town I don't

believe there woul d be any danger bwt if you

d~ove

I believe it would be v ery dunRerous .

Q

Are there not revenue officers?

A

I should say one about every twenty miles .

Q

Are there not insrectorn?

A

~here

are , v:hat we call riv .,,r guards.

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

on the rosdw

 ~

The feneral agents , inspectors and revenue men , do they

take cognizance of the violation of State

la~s

or notice of the violation of federal statutes?

or only cogni zance
I f they catch

a man stealing a cow do the officers , federal agent-s , arre:·t this
man

or wait until he violateD a federal law .
A

I think if they int r,)rcept him takinll; them across the

river they arrent him .
Q

Your personal knowlcdge ---

A

I haven ' t , but if I understand if they catch them taking

these cows and things across the river a federal off i cer will
arre ,,t them .
Q

Do you know anythlng about the

circumstances of seven Mesicans being strung up at

~"benezer

lHation .
A

No ,-- that is severteon or eighteen miles west of us .

Q

I s it i n your count y?

A

Yes , sir .

~

You don 1 t remember

A

No ; I heard

anythin~

somethin~

about it?

of it when it happened but I

was pretty busy---Q

Was it a

matt~r

of so unusual an occurence , or so

unusual in its nature that the hanging of

~even

I.1exicans in one

bunch would not attract public attention in your county?
1~

I heard of that but ·we h,;d a.nout all vie could atter..nd

to in our part of the count ry .
Q

Seventeen or eighteen miles from there?

A

Yes , sir .

Q

Did you hear of any of the RanO'ers veinf.' accused of·

do·ng that?
A

No , sir , in fact I

understoo~

it , at the time , that

it wa2 said that it was a part 6f the Sheriff ' s possee , although
•-

that was heresay .

4()
Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 MR . TIDWllILL :

Who ).s Rheriff of your county?

Q

Bak er •

A

.A • Y.

Q

Is he a sober man?

A

Yes ; a good officer .

Q

Is he a good sheriff?

A

Yes ; good

Q

Is he a Qan of means?

A

I don ' t know as to that .

Q

Is he a man ttai tries to enforce tr.e

A

Yes, sir.

Q

Has he ever 1)een accused of any crime that you lrnow of?

A

No , sir; and ha has co- operated with the Ranger force

tbe best
lJr .

o~

o~licer.

I think-l&w~

his ability, I believe .

Uc~.ULLIN:

Q

Has your sheriff ever 1>een on the RAnP-er

force , or do you know?

A

Not that I know of , poorsonally , but I understood in the

early days he was a member of the Ranger force.
Q

You don ' t lmow how long ago?

A

No, sir .

~MINATION

BY MR . CANAL.ci:S :

Q

You say you live in hlercedes?

A

Yes , sir .

Q

You remerihrer the incident of the young man that ca.me t o

Mercede.§' during the bandit trouble

~e

had in 1915, on the

train , a·rived there about noon and was arrested by
He had his hand in a slmng and was arrePted by

br~nch

Ran~ers?

Ranger ~

and was

found dead a few mi nutes afterwards?
ne~er

A

I don ' t remember it .

Q

You know he was being treated by a doctor over there in

I

heard of a case 6f that

kind.

MercedeEl?
A

Do you rememver the name of those aoctors?
\'le

had

1<,~o,

doctors then I believe .

4 (' State Library and Archives Commission
Texas

Doctor Buck and I

 tihink Doctor Schoolmaker . Doctor 6choolmaker is dead now.

Q

I think it was Doctor Buck was treating this very man

and the incident was so notorious that the doctor himself stated
at the time that they hnd killed the -:r11ong man because he m1s
not wounded but he had a tumor in the hand and he was trerting
him, it

WAS

pumpin~

shortly after the raid at the Uercedes

plant

by some Hcxicans across the river?
A

We never had a raid at the Mercedes plant .

The Uercedes

plant ncvar has veen fired on from across the river .
Q

It was something near?

A

We had one raid two miles west of town and there was

on man that

w~s

sho1; that ha.d a wound in his hand

understood, was killed but I don't know
or

whet~er

af~erwards ,

I

it was Eanpers

nnt .
Q

This VIounded man you knov1, it

tl:at incident that this man

arri~ed

wa~

a nay or two after

at !forced ~s on the noon train

with his hand in a sling to see the doctor

~~nd

~."

s ar.r csted and

immediately ta.ken out und f'ho t think ing he was one of those
persons wounded in that?

A

No , I nev Jr heard of any such ease as that .

Q

CHAIRI.'lAN BL.lIDSOE :

Anything further that you gentlemen

desire of Mr . Crawford?
J.ffi .

TIDWlliLL :

CBAI.HMAN

No , sir .

BL.:IDSO~ :

Have you any further statement you

desire to make?

MR . CRAWFORD :
CHAIRMAN

No , sir .

BL~DSOE :

All right . You are excused.

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

48

 B. F. J 0 E N

~

0 N,

tirs t having been duly wworn ; testified as follows :
~'xamined

by Chairman Bledsoe :
t~is

Q

You were sworn

morning?

A

Yes , sir .

Q

Give us your name , age ana residence .

A

B. F . Johnson , 42 years old ; Harlingen , Texas .

Q

Jhat county is that in?

A

Cameron County .

Q

How long have you lived in Cameron County?

A

About fourteen years .

Q

What is your business or oc cupation?

A

Up to the 26th day of lest nonth I was in the banking

business having been in that business beteeen sevJn and eight
years at.Jforlingen .

Q

Are you pretty generally acquainted in Cameron County

and adjoining counties ?
A

I am acquai nted with Cameron and some i'lith Hidalgo .

Q

Are you acquainted ·:ii th the officials of. your county?

A

Yes , sir .

Q

Have you been

acqt1ain~ed

with the Ranger force during

the time you have b een there?
A

Not intimately with them personally but I have come i n

contact with them in different ways since I have be en down
there enough to observe them .
Q

~specially

in the last eighteen months or two · years ,

how many officers have you.c known per sonally?
A

I have know Mr . Andrews , now captain .

Recently I have

met Capt in i/right , Captain Saunders , Car tin Stephens-- I met
quite a bunch of them at the M:oreland hotel a while a.go but' I
am not familiar with their names .
at Brownsville ;

I met the one that was k illed

K knew him .

Texas
4!J State Library and Archives Commission

 Q

V/ha t was his name?

A

I think Craighead .

Q

How long since he was killed?

A

Three of four months--probably longer .

Q

·.ihat has been the conduct of the Rangers in your

country during tte time you have

~n011

them?

A

I have never observed anything but good conc'luct .

Q

Have you seen any of them in a state of

A

no , sir .

Q

Havo you ever known of them , any of thmrn

in~oxication?

hav~ng

persona1

difficulties and beating up men with their guns?
A

Mo , sir •

.Q

Did you

A

No , sir .

Q

Have you ever heard it said-- -

A

I have known of them

Q

How many men have you known of the Rangers killine; .

A

Well , one particular cnae I know of , CDptain Andrews

ev~r

know of any of them killing anybody?

~i lling

killed a man down at Pace Real;
found him in the bed ;

people , yes , sir .

he was looking for hi , ;

he

he shot at him first and he killed him

afterwards , was supposed to have been a bandit .
Q

Vas he charged with the commission of

A

The man that was killed'?

Q

Yes .

A

Not that I know of .

~:my

crime in Texas

There was a report sent to

Harli ngen there was some bandits at :Pace Real and the·y sent a
man out to get them; they got one or two and had to kill this
man i n self defense .
kno~

of any one else that they

ki lled ~

Q

Do you

A

I don ' t know of anybody they k i lled personally , only

rumors scattered over the country down there .
Q

Did you know or has it been currently said that they

50 State Library and Archives Commission
Texas

 had \ arrested-- any portion of the Ranger

f~ rce

had ever arrested

a man and then killed him?
A

The reports I heard came to me

j_n

this way : there were

certain men arrested and afterwards found dead .
Q

How many times have you heard such repe.rts , with

ence to how many
A

tran~actinns?

I heard that twice .

Once in regard to this Carr ana

Hinojosa occurence and the next time in connection
man that was

tef~r-

arre~ted

with

t~is

at Po int Isabel .

Q

What was his name?

A

Garcia. .

Q

Eow long after he was arrest?d was it before he was

found dead?

A

I could not tell you the time.

Q.

~pproximate

An

He was reported ,- - Yes , I think it wan about three or

it .

A day or two?

four days .
Q

~vnat

A

I understand Saddler and Sittre .

Q

Sadler and Sittre?

A

Those two men I came in contact with personally a good

Hangers had him in charge?

deal , I knew them .
Q

Did you ever hear them make any expla.nati.ons how they

come to die?
A

No , sir .

Q

As far as you know

\18.S

ti ever inve st igrted by the

officers of the county?
A

I think it v1a.s .

Q

Were any indictments ever returned against either of

A

Not &hat I know of .

them?

Texas
51 State Library and Archives Commission

 · Q

The fact of the business was they didn 1 t consider it of

enough importance down hhere to indict a Ranger fo:D killing a
Mexican?
A

Well . I don ' t know how to an-e;.:·er that exactly .

Q

You soid you

~ere

familiar with

the general conditions

existing there?
A

My opinion is that the public down there never did

think that any Ranp:er or peace o ~ficer or otbervlise was
justified in killing a Mexican or anybody else unlawfully .
I don ' t think the public believes that way .
Q

Have you had any of them indicted down there in the

,.

last two or three years for killin- any of them~
A

Mister Chairman , I don ' t keep up

mi

court reocrds very

close down there .

Q

You came here to testify as to conditions existing

in your country?

th~t

A

No , I don ' t recall any .

Q

Do you think there is anybody on the RanRer force now

ought to bo taken off?
A

Only from heresay , and If Mr . Hinjosa is gui lty of

the acts he has beeI;J. accused of I
removed at once .

houla. say he ought to be

Also tl:e others if reports should be proved

against them .
Q

These two men you say Tiere prisoners and found dead

a short time aft<:Jrwards ,

If that is true do you think they

arc fit characters to bo on the Rabgor for de?
A

Absolutely not.

Q

Do you think citizenship of your countr y would

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 want those kind of men

k~pt

on the Ranger force?

A

No , I do not .

Q

Do you think a man who has been convicted of a

felony and in under conviction for a felony and h i s sentence
suspended by appeal to the court of

appea~s

should be con-

tinued on the force?
A

No , sir I do not .

Q

Have you any suggestions to make looking to the better-

ment of conditions , the betterment of the Ranger force and
services?
A

I believe their pay should be increased and I believe

an understanding shi:imld be reached between the Governor and
the citizens of the State of Texas that if . the Rangers are
found to be the wron kind of men , e.nd it the

citi~ens

would

cooper ate with the State goverment in havinR those kind of
men removed from the force -~

Yon think that a Ranger ought to be

a party for

the enforcement of the law or a man put on there simply by
reason of his reputation as a bad character and for the punpose of intimidation?

A

I n enforcing the law .

Q

Do you think a man should be put on merely for the

purpose of intimidation?
not .

i1

~tbsolutely

Q

How do the bePt people of your country look upon the

Hanger force?

A

~hey l~ok

-

upon the '-anger force as a protection to

our country there, both ladies and men do .
Q

Your judgement is that they should be continued?

A

It is , yes , sir .

Q

Do you think that the peraonnel of the f orce ·sho11ld

be raised?
A

The personnel of the force?

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 Q

Yes .

A

If there is any reason for having it raised I think it

certainly should .
Q

Don ' t you think conditions would be better by gradually

working in better men?
A

Certainly , yes ,

~he better men you get the better he

is going to perform his duty .
EXA1UN~D

Q

BY S-~A~OR .'fILLLl!,ORD :

The Ranger operates over a greater scope of territory

than a peace officer

ca~ , doesn ' t

he?

A

Yes , sir.

Q

As a general rule they are not stationed at any one

place but are moving about along the border?
A

For that reason I have not become very well knovm to

most of them because there will be four or five Rongers ilh my
town or vicinity for s i x or eight days and maybe for some reason
they are changed and others sent there .
Q

It is your su~gestion that there might be some way or

some mode or operation between the people and the authorities
at .tlustin by which Ran.c;ers not suitable could b e summarily and
wo11ld be sumriarily removed?
A

Yes , I feel perfectly satisfied if the authorities at

Au~tin will request the citizens dov~ there to gove thorn any

information or assistand e in any way or proving that

on~

certain

man is not competent to be on the Ranger fo r ce that ful l cooperation nill be had .
Q

As

a matter of favt a groat deal of this k i lling we

have he~rdabout , hs.sn ' t that come about s i nce the ·msettled
situation brought about by the war and t r ouble in 1Rexico and of
all our unsettled conditions?
A

Yes , because when. I first went to Cameron County cDscs

like that were not

ht~Urd

of any all of these cases have 'been

re1orted during the time of th$s fermentation ttere on the border.

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 Q

There was a great deal of talk at one time was there

not , about the citizens of I.:exico trying to f orment trouble
on this side'?
A

Not only tal d

b ~t

they did it , in my opinion .

l!XAli1IU ·~D BY HR . T ID\J .&LL :

Q

Have you ever served on the grand jury down there?

A

No , sir.

Q

Have you been personally · cquainted with the members

of the grand jury from time to time or some of them?
A

Yes , sir .

Q

Have those grand jur ies been supJ)osed , as a rule , to

be mixed , some Mexicans on the grand jury and some Americans
or Americans exclusively?
A

I think s.s a rule they have a mixed grand jury.

If

they find a man that can talk .:!lnglish and knows our laws they
make it a point of putting him on the grand jury.
Q

Another matter , I don ' t think the

you about :

Crai~man

asked

Do those Rangers parade the town with guns on and

weapons in an intimidating manner or do trey go about quietly
in an onobtrusive , ino!"tentat i ous way?
A

~ight

years

a~o ,

when I first went to Farlingen they

did wear thei r guns withont a coat and I didsee a. good deal
of artillery .

In the last four or five years you would not

know a man was a
could judge

b~

Ran~er

unless he took

mi s boots or large hat .

h i~

coat off or you

They aust appear as

any other citizen .

Q

Have you lived in Harlingen all those fourteen years?

A

NG. Only.a9out eight years .

Q

During that eight years of time do you know of a

single instance , can you tell tt-is committee of a single
instance in v1hich a RRne;er ha.s killed a citizen there , a law
a bin ing c i tizen or one that was not a la.vi abi.diz:g· c i tizen , in

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 the terms of Harlingen?
A

No , sir .

~

Do you lrnov; of a single inRtance in which a Ranger

has been killed down there by some

~erson .

At I:arl i ngen?

A

Yes , in the toVJn where :rou live .

,Q

There was only one man trat

A

·:vas

killed the:re r-nd I

think he was a special , if I am not mistaken , and that was
private Prouble between r.imself and some other party .

That

was renry Pritenack.
Q

~Vhs.

A

I don ' t think he was .

Q

How long ago did that killing eccur?

A

1~/hen

Q

Vihat s ise is the town of Harlingen?

be a Rangnr?

I first \·,rent ther , about eight years ar:o .

A About fifteen hundred or eighteen hundred .
Q

In regard to the population?

A

About two-thirds Americans .

~HIN~D

Q

13y S.£NA'.:'OR WIDL IFORD :

Do you know any sentiment of the part of the citisens

or officials to diturv or bother a law ab i ding Mexican?
A

No , sir.

lJR . TI D'dliliL :

Q

Do you know of any dispostition there

on the prrt of good cit izens of that town to

k~ll

Mr . Conales

or hurt him in any way?
A

I nev :r beard of it , of any such dispost tion .

Q

Have you ever discusses those questions with the

Rangers about their service , any of them whom you have been
acquainted

~vi th?

A

Since what time ?

Q

Since l ast summer when we began to have troubles

there last summer?

5b

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 No , I never discussed a Ranger's business nith him

A
at all .

Have you aver heard the Hangers discusR i t amont them-

Q

. selves when in your institution?

A

No , sir .

~1JHN ~D

BY

rm .

1JcJ,1IL ...JIN :

Mr . J ohsson asked you a quest ion

Q

wl' j

le ago , you said

you were satisfied if the authorities at Austin would make a
request of the citizens do·nn there they wonld 'h.ave treir
hearty sooperation .

Are we to understand bu that that at

present they do not have the cooperation

~f

the citizens

there?

A

No . I did not nake that assertion .

I said that is

onw way, by closer cooperation the personnel of thi s Ranger
force can be improved .

I

make that a s sertion for these

reasons , also , that with that

coo~eration

on both sides it

leaves the .rla.nger in the same position he is right now
so he can
Q

effectivel~

corry out his duty .

Are we to understand that ht the present there is

not the closest cooperation that is desired aown there between
the Rangers force ana the citizens?
A

Hot that I l:now of .

I have no compl aint to moke of

the Ranger force at present .
Q

was not .

Your

am~wer

is what led me to t11ink possible there

You answered while ago , if the Governor here would

request closer cooperation you are sure they would p:ct it .
To my mind it implied they v-1ere not getting it?

A

No , I did not mean to imply that because I feel sure

the sooperation exists already and ryill contineu to do sp .
JIB . IicI.HJ,LIN :

ThPt is all .

5,
Texas State Library and Archives Commission
--==------

 ZXAl':!I'' ~D BY ],ffi.

Q

CANAL.t£S :

You answerea while ago to the question by the

chairman , you did not 1mow of any trouble between private
citizens and t~e Hangers.

,/ho is your city marshal?

A

Oscar Morris .

Q

Didn 1 t you hear about tr•e trouble he had had with

Rangler Saddler there?
A

Yes;

that slipped my

mem~ry .

I will go over it

with you if ·ou wish me too .
Q

I

simply asked you .

A

That slipped my memory .

Q

They had some aisturbance over

A

~hey

Q

Do you remembar also the incident of the- - I think

there~

had a fight , yes , sir .

it was a special RanBer , John Fill , son of Lon

c.

Hill .

Hnd the con~tc.ble thcr, - what ' s his name , Vi do.l Cantu?
b

No , sir ,

I nev )r heard of any trouble between them

at all .
Q

Do ,,vou remernbor the ti'"'le that he arrcRted Vi dal Cantu

and hand cuffed him for

~ome

renson?

A

No, I don ' t rememb0r that .

Q

And took him to Mercedes and turned him loose?

A.

:No, I don ' t know anytring about that at all.

,..,he

only man I know concerned in it w, s Anastacio Robles .
Q

He was a notorious character? .

A

Yes , sir .

Q

A bad man there?

A

He i~ not considered to be such a bqd man but he is

that is considered ·;1onld steal a cow if he -saw it out w·here
nobody could see

hi~ .

Q He is generally

in the pay or service of Lon C. Fill

and the Hill boys , isn ' t he?
A

58

Not to my kn,owledge.

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 ~

In regard to the incident--- - Do you recollect tre

fact on several occasions men were taken out of jail in San
Benito ana their bodies .were found lying by the road between San
Benito and Harlinp.en?
I heard a ru~or about that nnd pcss ed down tre s ame

A

road pretty shortly"aftor and did not see anything of it .
Q
there

Wasn't it a notorious fact , their bodies wouldlie

t~o

A

or three dnys sometimes?
I hearcl ·that rumored , yes, but I never saw the "bodies

and in fact never fo oJ.owe"I. up those rumors very much .

':'hey all

led to a blind trail , s ometimes , as a rule.
Q

\'/hen Capt . Hanson was located at Farlin~en you say

you did not hear of Pny killings down there

bein~

done by

his men?
A

No , sir .

Q

OJ.tmside of the one at far.se Real?

A

Around Harlingen?

Q

Yes ;

I mean by that , not immediately in but in

reacting dist&nce from Harlingen?i
A

You could hoar every day about somebody being killed ;

I don ' t knou how to take those runors there .
Q

Is it not a fact that durinR 1915 and 1916 ri~ht

iibout betv1een Harlingen and San Boni to and around San Bonito
and Brownsville and around Passe Real and that -place , there
were a larffe number of persons killed?
A

Yes , and I also heard rumors there were a good many

ski rmi shes a.round i n the brush .

I expect tha.t is where they

got killed .
Q

I s it not a fact that the first trouble we had in 1915

was the incident related by Hr . Morrison about thnt boy that
'

vras taken out of San Benito to Brownsville and was lynched ,
right near San 3enito?

5U

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 A

The bc.ndit trouble may have started along- about that

time but p ersonally I do not attribute it to that .
UR .

CANAL i~S :

That is all •

•rulIIUED BY MR . T I DWiLL :
Q

You spoke of trouble bet\;een a Ranger and the city

marshal of Ilarlingep.?
A

Yes , sir .

Q

Did :that trouble grOVI out of private feud?

A

Absolutely, yes sir .

I will explain it to you if

you wish me too .
n~t

Q

It did grow out of off icaal duties in any wFJ,y?

A

Well , the Hang: er ' s carryinR out his official duty

brought i t up .
Q

State it .

A

t.fy

understanding

closing law went into

o'!:

ef~ect

the proposition was Then this
that the party, he

u~ed

to be rather

prominent up here , I think , was intoreRted in a saloon and
failed to close it on time and this

Ran~er

arrested him and

the city marshal ab jected to it and they haa some

~ords

that

led to the fight .
Q

Do you know what t he name of that Ranger. was?

A

Saddler .

Q

Is he still in the service .

A

I don ' t know whether it was him or his brother tha t

got k i lled .

One is $till in the service .

Q

I s the city marshal mtill marshal of the town?

A

St i ll marshal of our town , yes , sir .

Q

What is his name?

A

Oscar llorris .

MR .

T ID 11!~L :

That i s all .
,..
----------------

60 State Library and Archives Commission
Texas

 ALBA

H~YWOOD ,

f i.rst having been duly sworn , testifiea before the
1

Committee as follows :
~Mil:!i:!D

BY CHAIRM!J{ BLJ:DSOE :
resi~ence .

Q

Give your name , age , and

A

Alba P.eywood , fifty- nine years old; San Eenito.

Q

How lond have yourl ived in Cameron County?

A

Since 1907.

Q

Have yon or not been acquainted vii th the Ranger force

operating in that section?

A

I have in a way .

Q

How many of them have you known. intimately?

A

I have met them from time to time, many timeR, but I

am sorry to say that my memory : s to their names and whose
company they.were with and whether they were at this time on
tbe Ranger force or no , I could not be definite in the matter
of

there are some of them that have

dates or names , very;

~

been River Guards at one time ana Ranp:ers at another time and
deputy sheriffs at another time , and I got acquainfiloa with them
and I
th e

~ometimes

Ran~er

Q

don ' t know

~hethor

they

~ere

at that time of

force , River Guard or deputy sheriff .

We want you to donfine yourself, we want to confine

tbis inquiry to their conduct as Rangers and

~e

do not want

them to get any credit for any one else ' s work ana
want .them to

bea~

any one else ' i=> responsibili tics .

~e

do not

Vie ask

you in so far as poscible to limtt your testimony wi th tef erence to their conduct as Rangers .

·:that has been the conduct

of the Ranger force in that section, so far

a~

you know?

A

So far as I know . in the maj rity it has been JSOOd .

Q

All right.

~

Mino rity has been bad .

Q

How many men do you Jrnow during that tj.me whoso conducr

Eow a.bout the minor ity?

as State Ranger hes been bad?
A

61

I conld not

~ ive

the number .

I know in a P;,"eneral way

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 report-- Now , I have long since been convi nced thatour
trouble dovm there had its root and the seed in the political
situation and that i s the thing I have been thinkgng of and
g~ ving

more attention to than the dets.ils of the Ranger
I hoard rumors here and there but I did not trace

matt~rs .

them do1·m .

Just as the case of theman from :Po i nt Isabel; I

heard he was '.ii th soldiers , the Rangers with them parted at the
parting of the road and in a mile or a few miles he was found
dead .
Q

No explanation made?

A

No explanation made;

I don ' t know whether these

men were indicted for it or not ,

It has passed

~ram

my mind .

were the RanFers?

Q

~/ho

A

Could not tell you that .

It has developed to - day

here I believe , that one of them was Saddler .
Q

You are acquaintnd

~ith

conditions generally over

that county?
A

Very well , yes

I have lived there per petually

~Hr .

s i nce 190'7, scsrcely hnv13 taken a. vacation away .
Q

W!1at businesf' are you in?

A

I am trying to pay my

Q

Hasn ' t been much sale for sometime?

A

Yes ,

R

a ebts

by sellinr: my lands .

littl e , quite a little .

The land

busine~s

is very lively down trere at prePent time .
Q

One of the Committee desires to know what you

occupat ~

ion has been other than your----

A I went there as
and Wat er Com) ~my .

pre~ident

of the San Benito Land

Mr. Snm Ro1nrtson had a propostition as

engineer and my brothers and

~

put our oil money

~rom

ana Jennings into it and rut San Benito on the map •
.. _We v1ent there \vhen t t ··was a blue print .
Q

You promoted that?

A

Yes , s ir ;

YG:l.J;t are still connected with it?
Q
62
Texas State Library and Archives Commission

Beaumont

 A

I

No ; the old San Benito Land and Water Company went

into the hands of receivers ••• I wcs very active for the
irrigation district to take over the old canal .
Q

You still have investments?

li.

I still have land ther , stock in the bank .

All I

have i R there except a ljttle oil .
Q

Are loc'"l conditions there such

!'S

to demand the

maintenance of the Ranger force?
A

I believe so .

because this bill

~as

That is what I am here for .
intDcduced by

I~ .

'.Ve came

Canales , that feature

in i t to put the Hangar force under the county offic i all':'. , and
that i s the last think vie wanted.

We want. the Hanger force

there a.Bd want it independent absolutely in ev !r;/ v:ey , C)}1ape
ana manner of the local Politicul situation .
them to be beb lden to anybody.

We do not want

'1 o i.1onld like for them to

work in harmony, so far as the Sheriff and hiP department V"ill
work in harf"1ony , so far as the Preriff and his department Will
work in harmony 1ni th them for the good of the eause hut we do
not want the Rnngers tied up and t rameled ana hog tied to the
local situation there .
Q

You s~y the real trouble down there ts in the local

political situation . ?
A

That is my

bel ief .

Q

You tr.ink if yo11 ever purify that --

A

I think if you will help us and the Governor will keep

his r lcdge to clean politics C!nd eive us a chance to clean up
you c n keep your Bangers there t wo or three years ana we won ' t
be up here to

pu~l

the situation there

for them , bµt we want them to
an~ ,

1~e1p

clean up

therfore , we do not want them subser-

vient to local-Q

Hlwc you any sufm0stion to make Ds to the bett .;r -

mcnt of the Renger force a nd the service you people are entitled to fror.i it?

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 A

My suggesti-on wo1 ld be that their pay be increased

t o not less then one hundred dollars

~or

any of them and that

for the "Oll.rpose of V'lidening the number of men that v1ould 1e
applying for those jobs .

I don ' t

think it uould be any good

to give an

undesirable Rangers 1 etter wages but thm1 you incr-

ease

so a man can live Lnd 1 ve decently in these high

~ages

times of living then you have more good men come in competetion
with those bad men to get the jobs and you can pick your
better .

That is my theory.

I think this :

~en

I think that the

Ran, er force is a unique organization as a peace organization
and it has got to be hcmdled in a different way from politics .
It is free -

qr should be free -- from politics , and I thin] that

just as soon asnit is tied up to politics its efficiency is
damam ed and hurt , and I think t at no orcanization or not int t i tut ion is any bigger than the men that arc in it , and I th·i nk
that

i::

tho Governor and ,

Jhat is their depLrt..1cnt?--

Q

Adjutant General?

A

Adjutant Gener.i:..1 ,- will give their S'1ocial attnntion

to it they can cl an up the Ranger force to such an extent
that this opposition to tt will be rmnov-.ed .

As near as I can

size i t up tho opposition is due to overt acts of Rangers gere
and there throughout the

Sta~e .

cleaned out of ot , exi1ccially so

~nd

those men ought to be

rhen we give a certain depart -

ment like the Rangers a ccrtein freedonand. clothe/ them ui th
i:mthori ty and power th.... t way end untrammeled , vie have to look
very carefully as to ·hat !dnd of men 1:e put in there 'Jlaces .
:iot
Vle aan htrust those unlimited :-ewers to To;:i , Dic 1 : and Harry
at forty and fifty dollars a mo11th ; that is

Q

go~

better men?

I \lOuld nut say as to th, :percentage .

good .nen there .
saws .

theory .

You think we ought to raise their salaries , fire a

good portion of them :?.11.d
A

lllY

~hey

are courageous .

You have some (

They uill fight buzz-

There are no men that have sho\rm. ip. Prence or elsewhere

64
Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 ~ny

more courage or nerve than your Rangers chow.

undesirables have shown the same nerve .

There is no qucotion

about that , about their physical courage at all .
right .

Some of the

That is all

They have got to have i t.

Q

You think a Ranger shotld have some regard for the law?

.A

Absolutely.

I

think if e. Ranger misuses his pouer

it is \7orse than for a man not clot her wi th this p mwer to·
abuE-e i t .
D6n 1 t you think a man ought to be a good man to be a

Q

Ranger?
A

Yes , sir .

Q.

.And should not Jo entrusted with that authc ri ty unless

he is?

A

I think i f he betrays it he ought to be

Yes , sir .

re noved .
Q

Do you think a co..,vict shQ.uld be renoved?

A

I Hon 1 t say that .

I am one of these me that won 1 t

say that ·b ' cause a man has b eon a convict he shonld not have a
chance afterwards .
I

am

goi~g

If a man reforms and coraes out and is better

to watch him close- - he must expect that .

be generous if put on un equal bas i s with a man

th~t

He must
has not

been a convict , and thankful for that generousity, but if he
co:...acs clean I am ready to stand by him .
Do you think a man who is under conviction for a

Q

felony , a

penitcntia~

sentence hanging over him , simpiy

suspended by appealing to the court of a1rrnals , ought to le
continued on the force?
:tro , I don 1 t think he ought to want to continue on the

:A

force .

I

would not if I rms m1dcr that ban.

Q

Aside from that have you any other suggestions to

A

I think not .

make?
I think all the Ranger force shouJd be

clean and cercfu_ly handled , very ,

ver~

carefully handled .

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 It

they arc not there are things going to

~reep

into it .

_To , I want to say in regard to the killings , I cannot
blame the Range r force altogether for some of our citizens ,-they range .all the way from men who think every l.foxican should
be driven into the Rio Grande and no quarters shovm , to men
uho are very liberal with them .

(

Personally , I do not think

that the icxican ignorance and the i.Iexican corruption that
they talk so much about io our menace .

I

the intelligence and shrewdness and the

corru~tion

.American men

~ho

lead them.

And

I

t hinJr our manace is
of tho

don ' t believe in spraying the

loaves to cure citrus canker and I don ' t believe in cutting off
tho limb , as they -;1ou:J_d , to cure the yellows .

I

think citrus

canker , and we have polit ical citrus canker , should be gone
after

~s

they go after citrus canker , and cut the tap root .

Mine is tho tap root theory.
Q

You do think that there arc conditions existing in the

Ranger force that necessitates some very careful consideration
at the hands of the Department?
A
I

I should judge so from what I have hears ,- much thc.t

have heard since I have been here .

the

Q

From your obser ration on the border you would think so?

A

Yes , I i1ould say that the institution shoula 'be one

~ost

carefully handled departments Gn our State gov0rment .

Q

You thinJr it could be made a bencifcial department of

our State goverment?
A

Yes ; absolutely.

Q

The better clas s of citizens ,

ho~

do they look on the

Rangers there?
.A.
I am

That better class of ci tizenshi:p is a ·?cculiar thing .

not one of these men 't7ho , '7hen a man

disa~rces

any :?roposti tion , to say he lt.s a bad citizen and

v1i th me on

I am n

good

one .
Q

I am spea.tnng about the t'.lajori t~T?

A I don ' t subscri ue to that , that tho
6()
Texas State Library and Archives Commission

men that do not

of

 &isagree withus are not g ood citiacns .

We have lots of

citizens who disagree with me on the ::.::e:x:ican question , the
face question and. the Ranger question and. they are good. citizens , my b oot friends , some of them
dition there .
much to

e have a very bsd con-

As I have told some of them I uoiiold. hate very

·e a Republican but I would rather be two Re'1ubl icana

than one Jim \/ells Democrat .

What

~ave

rise to it , in my

opinion , ...-as that they suspend the sentence i nstead. of sus i•

pending the criminal .

They have gone out on straw bonds and

they hav , come back aeain .

They find a man guklty of fraud

\Ii th all the proof necessary and put him ·under a thousand-

do llar bond and that is the L st v1e hear of him.
trouble dom1 there .
on it .

That i s our

We look to Governor :lobby to he l p us out

He )ledged it;

it is a plank in his :platform. WE LOOK

to him to stand on that p lank.
Q

You look to Governor Hobby to purify the Ranger

force L S much as you look t o the Rangers?
A

I think

many ways .

~e

ought to get on another basis in a good

Our citizens did a good many thigs they s hoUld

not havo done ;

they are excusable in a good many ways .

They

co.me from the North, ...;ast and 'lest , not from the South ; they
never had seen a 1.IeAican in their lives and they look £or
them to have a knifD in their boot- logs to cut you.
not found them that way.

I have

I have found them ready to be led.

Our citizens d0'\711 there became pariid sticken.

~he

first hang-

ing we had was our ovm city officer , as I understand , - I
don 1 t 1mow from my positive

1o1owled~e ,

I wasn 1 t ther , but I

understand that he had his prisoner and tood hi''.l by midnight
in an auto11obile to Bro'tmsville and soriebody tried to rob him
of him and they did .

'.!.'hat opened the ball , breaking the ice

for mob law and violence .
thieves and stealing .

.1c

The cond.i tions were that vrn had
have thcr.1 now.

61 State Library and Archives Commission
Texas

I have a telegram

 in my pocket I just
11

rcc ~ived

Hcy11ood , .Jris'rill Hotel .

yesterday

~hievcs

or the day before .

made another re.id last

night ; stole all of Knox 1 s harness and tuo horses ; also Carmi.chael r s ha1·ness "-- those are good citizens ; there that have
been rob d ,-- sirned by Mr . Prentice .

Re .has h£..El all of his

s c ck but one plug taken anay from hifu .

I a.on 1 t think the

Mc:x:icans across the river have done it· all .
nobbi!'lg with tho

Llexic~ns

'£hey are hob -

on this side of the river , o.nd

1\.mericans , so the Rangers told us , and are egged in and eooperated'.
with by whi tc men in the lead •
.l:JXA.l'\iDL:D BY MR . '.i.1 IDWELL :

Q

Do you know of a Gingle instance where a Rane:er

dovm there has wilfully c.nd vrantonly killed any .citizen?
A

Hot unless you call such cases as the one they

spoke of on the uay from Po· nt Isabel to San Benito as

0:10 .

I clon 1 t knou anything about it only i;7hat I heard .

Q

You live at Harlingen1

A

No , sir , 3an Benito .

Q

:Nothing like that do\m there?

A

San Benit o is my baby.

Hothing like that dor.m there .

I don ' t kl1o't"1 of any one killi:hg any one in San Boni to .

I

know tilis uas d.one -- I do-.., ( t know whether Rangers , citizens
or our marshal did that , - I J.:now of four r.aen brought in
thc·r.c from the river by the soldiers ;

they ·were turned over

by the soldiers , soldiers put them in the city coo l er and
that night they · ere taken out on some o f my le.nd and the
next day they 'lore found there , fact up , shot , killed.

I met

the soldier who v-ms bringing them in ; he said they 1;,'ore taken
as suspe cts for stealing ,

re~orted

in as sispects for steiNli118' ,

tuo of them \;ere young men; they iicre going to have them a s
witnesses , ana. the others were old men they thoucht wore tho
criminals ;

that was tho end of them .

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 Q

Got them all four?

A

No , ,11'0'0 of them were let to go and the other t'7'0

we c killed .
Q

What '"ecDL'.!e of t:1e h·o that Yiere not killed?

A

I don ' t

1

mow .

they were young men .

I understood that they wore let go ;
•
../hen they vrnnt to make Jlihe arrest they

killed one \/ho tried -'.;o get away.

CIIAiru:inr

BLEDSO.J :

Q

))id those men ever get in the hands

o·f the Ranger force as far as yor Jrnow?
of' ~

A

Hot that I know

Q

Were the Rangers there at the time?

A

Oh, yes , the Rangers were there at tho ti:@e .

was during the time v:e had

Q

~6 ~mch

Did they undertake to

That

t rouble .

~ake

s.ny investigation to see

who had assisinated those prisoners?
A

Not that I know of .

RXA:.:r:n...m BY

Q

SE£:.A~1 0R

PAC..::: :

You spoke of the political situation dovm

Have the Rangers at any time since they have ·been

ther ~.

here
'

interfered with local politics to "my extent?
A

Lately.

Q

At any time?

A

Yes , lately I think they have .

Q

Hqs thet been the cause of ciiy or sorJe of this trouble?

A

I could not say that it had .

·.:o

figured uhen ue came

up here that that was the cause of the movement zto remove them
and abolish the
Q

~orce .

Latel.r, you sa•·~ the Ra...llgers have inter'fnred some

with lolZal political conditions?
A

Yes , sir .

Q

:io ,,hat cztent?

A

I understand that they tool.. part in getting evidence

regard: 11.g our last )rimary elections .

They Rangers , \7hich

will co,ne our i:ri our Parr- Galsscoc}· controversy .

Texas
State Library and Archives Commission
GB

 Q

I am not

A

No , but I am stating it relatively that the Rangers

loo~::ed

tr~ing

to go into that especially?

over the polls-- attended

found politicians at tho

SO''lc

of the pools ,

anrl.

they

~)ools .

understand those things will come,- -

Q

I

A

Yes , they will come out .

Q

The

loc~l

- eaco officers of CaMeron County, tho

sheriff and his deputies , there

w .LS

friction between that

force and the Rangers , 11asn' t there?
A

Yes , I believe there uas.

Q

Why was that·? .

A

My opinion is , and it is gained from pretty direct

testimony, is

th~t

the

politic~l

boss under ook to boss them .

Q

Undertook to boss the Eangers?

A

Yes , sir .

Q

You mean

A

Yes .

Q

You think Mr . Wells controls the sheriff?

A

I think so .

Q

The friction between the Rangers and the sheriff

:tr.

Wells~

That is what I thi1' , from tho Ro.ne;ors themselves .

grou out of the fact that Mr . Wells undertook to d.011inate
tho Ranger force?
A

I think so , best of my k:no'\"rloctr;e .

Q

Abo~

A

I think so .

Q

What character of man is the sheriff of Ce.meron

the election business?

Cou.11ty?

A

He has a recommendation froB his old home , for the

prohibitionists and from citizens that was very excellent
before he cane to Ca.neron County.
Q

Do

you know

A

lTo , I have known .

Q

'What has been his conduct since he hrs been sheriff?

whc1~e

he caiac fro...21 there?

Texas State Library and Archives Commission
'

 ~

Durine the bandit time he worked with the Rangers to

q_ui te a good e...<:tent a.:nd I think did everythh1g he could ui th
them , £or all I know .
Q

Do you think that friction between the sheriff ' s

department
~cts

~nd

the Rangers , any of it greTI out of lawless

of Rangers zilling citizens?
A

I don ' t thin1

that caused the friction .

Q

Your idea is that the fric ion is pu1·01w

A

Yes , sir .

Q

Do you think the Rangers , in addition to the

~o li tica;L?

~,e rson:rel

being raised , do you think there is any necesmity for any
f'urther restraint?

All )Cece officers , other than Ran.e;crs ,

are under bond so for any unofficiJ.l acts there coP_ld be
financial ropreation?
A

My idea is , so far as I have investigated it , it that

th.e boTJ.d would hamper them .

I don ' t

people who i70ih.ld give bond .

I

t hiuk you ,-,ould fi d

don 1 t want the Rangers bonded

bcc ..;.use I think it would hamper their effecicncy, but if
the Jovernor and the Adjutant General will look out for it ,
wetch it closely, I don ' t think it is necessary to bond them ,
but if they arc going to be bonded I would like them bonded
as our fri11ed that ca.no with ms , I.Ir . Lomax , sue;gested , that
the State under\:rite it or bond it themselves .
State 1 s business .
provide .

I

Iti is the

don 1 t i.:now what the constitution would

I am not a lm-,ycr , but it seems to

10

it vroi 11i be

up to the State to bond its own Rangers , and , if necessay,
to underwrite it so a

~urety

company fould bond th0m .

I

think

if a bond \'Jould have a restriction ana keep the Rangers within
their bonnds his boss should "')ay the bill .

I think it would

mn.ke .)chem more careful e.nd give a hi5her moral tone .
Q

You think if the State did undoruritc them and

) fJ.Y

expense of bonding , you thi!1k the bond uould be a good thing
or a bad thing?

7l
Texas
State Library and Archives Commission

the

 A

I could not

~uy

as to that .

If the bond woul d insti-

tu to or increase the suits that trould be brought against the
Rangers , to r1eke him timid to do his duty ut uould hamper
him.

I believe we can b ey by v,ithout a bond by careful

handling of it by the Adjutant General
Q

an~

the Governor .

Your opinion is , the best thing is for the Adjutant

Gene ral and the Governor to be more carcfu::.. about \'ho they
put on the Ranger force and then there uould b e no necessity
for a bond?
A

Yes , that is my opinion .

If uuch bond could be put

on them in such c way as to hamper them in no vray then there
would be no objection to the bond .

But , as far as ue have

discussed it , the ooneensus of opinion is , that bond would
hamper them and that it is not necessary.

EXA:UH3D :SY l.ffi • McIU LLA:H :

----

Q

Regarding the.t incident r:her-c there was four men ,

as I understand you to say , i.1ere captured by United States
authorities and brought to your to\'1?1

o.nd~ tu~nea}ovcr

to the

civil authorities , is that so?
A

Yes , that is the point?

Q

And they were taken on the road toward Brormsvillc .

A

Ho , sir .

Q

Started vrith them , at

A

:No ; they were takcn-- they were not taken towards

le ~st?

Prownsville ; they were taken in the back :fields , they "CTcre
taken a _1ile noth of Ban Boni to and about a mile east -Q

Was there any indication that the Rangers had any-

thing to do with that mobbi:cg?

that?

A

I don ' t

Q

You say you under&tood

A

Yes , two were turned loose .

Q

Would you r.'.lind telling us fron whom you understood

k10\/

i.:ho did it .
~vo

cf them were turned loose?

72 State Library and Archives Commission
Texas

 A.

I uould :not mind it if I could remember it .

just a current report that they were turned loose .

It Y1as
~here

was so much of that stuff going around in tho atmosphere
I could not begin to locate it .
Q

It was just runored they were turned loose , so far

as you knov1 you neverstIW them anymore?
A

No , sir .

EXAI.ITJ'IED BY I.tR . TIDWELL:
Q

Have ··ou ever served on the grand jury in Cameron

County?

A

Yes; once .

Q

Was tho grand jury corri:_...,osed exclusively of .A!'Jericans

or did it have Mexicans on it.?

A

They had Mexicans on it .

Q

I do not uant to make :10u disclose-- that would be

improper-- Hovr long ago has that been?
A

I think just about the time of tho draft law.

Q

About a year and a half ago?

A

Yes , something like that.

Q

It would be a year ago last June?

A

I think so .

Q

Wero t here any matters of inquiry about the Rangers

exceeding their authority and maltreating and mistreating
people?
A

The Rangers uerc not ..'.lontioned , to my memory at all .

Q

Before the grand jury?

A Uo , sir .

Q

No grand jury indictments were returned at that time

a 0 ainst the Rangers?
A

I think not ; nothing at all .

Q

Do you knou of any grand jury indictment ponding

against the Rangers in Cl neron Couhty now fo r exceeding their
f

authority and malfeasance in office?

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 '
l~o .

A '

lTot U..'Ylless the Point Isabel matter has been brought

to that stage .
Q How lone; since the Po'itnt Isabel matter occured ?
A

Oh, from memory I would say four or

five inonths aro .

Q

:>id the Eexicans on the grand jury make a:ny compaaint

about the Ranger f orce there?
A

Not at ·all.

Ranger force , my memory , was not discussed .

Q

Did the Ranoer force attempt to aid , did they in any

way cooperate ui th the grand jury in getting y·i t·11es;:.es before
it , otc ., or not?
I think so .

A

I th.:.nk it uas

so~-Je

of the Rangers gave

us Eome 01· the evidence and testimony regcrding some matters .
11hc

Federal authori tins wore before us also .
Did the sheriff and his deputies , were they punctual

Q

in serving you:r processes and getting yo-.:a: witnesses before
the grand jury- the county authorities , I mean?

A

I heard of no com laint of anything .

Our prLnci'al

\!Ork uas with the slackers and ·ni th pro:fi teers , violators of the
espionaee act .

Q

As o. matter of fa.ct you visited Brovmsville frequostly

did you not?
A

Yes , sir , possibly--

Q

For the lo.st two years ,

I

will put it , s:i.nce the

first of DJce11vor , t\'To years ago , hasn ' t :Brownsville been
practice.lly a wide open to\:n in i7hich saloons run end gambling 1;rcnt

011 ,

and didn ' t General • Parker when he v1as there

have to close tho saloon and gambling houses in that toVJ"E.,
in 1917 and ' 18?

A
I

Yes , sir , I believe so .

I have never been an any ;

did not; frequent the gambling houses o.nd don ' t :'mov1 anything

exce)t from hercsay.
,., 1

' ..

Q

street?

They were plainly to te seen a:s you walked do\7!1 the

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 A

yes , and I lmow from newspaper articles and general

talk that there uas a ereat deal of
in Bro'Wllsville and it

u~s

ea~bling

and drunkenness

a very hard thing to contr ol and that

the· laws were not enforced .
Q

Don ' t you. J.mow--

A

That the

Q

Don 1 t you 1mow as a

~ilitary

forces had to take a hand iL it .
matter of fact tho.t sometimes

those outlaws made a raid on a cavalry i:>atrol at time and
sometines those cavalry officers had to take a

comp ~ny

out

to cu. ?turo those I!lare,udc1·s there?

A

No , sir .

Q

You don ' t

A

Ho , sir .

·~o~

that ti be a fadt?

EXA:.Hl\JED BY CHAIL.1..1.AN BLED SOE :
Q

Dur.; ng the time that tovm vms run so uide open

,.,ere there no Rangers there?

·A
Q

I think so , in and out all the time .
Did they know these saloons and gambling houses v1cre

running wide open that way?

A

I suppose to ,

I don 1 t lnow.

I have never fgonc into

that in any vmy.
Q

There 'ims ·nothing to keep them fro n 1mo17ing it?

A

Iro , sir .

Q

Did you ever hear of Rancors

A

::.;o , I don f t remember of any CD.Se whcrc ·they did . 'i1 here

tr~ing

to close it up?

have been raids made , a couple of years ago there was a
in there among the peace officers of

Bro~msv ille

~ieht

and the

con'1ty officers of Brownsville .

Q

Over the gambling houses and saloons?

A

In the gaJ!lbline houses and scl. oons .

Q

In the gambling houses and salo ons?

A

Yes , if I remember right oneeside undertook to raid

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 ,

thp houses '·hi le the other side was in it .
Q

Wero the Ra11gcTs mixed up in it in any way?

A

I could not tell as to that .

~here

lines of pev.ce officers dorm there an(l

Q.

I

arc three or four

clo not keep them

But one of' them was ungentlemanly enough to try to

raid the house while the others were there?,
A

Y(>s , sir/

There was a distinct antugonis:o bet\'1ecn the

C:rn..11ty o:fficers and. the town off'icie.ls .

Q

Which oues were on the inside lmoking out at that ti.:ie?

A

I think that the --- if I remember right , that the

County

offici~ls

uere

011

the inside and that · the tomi officials

wanted to Jct in.
EX.li.'IHIED BY hlR . ':1 IDWEL:i :

Q

You visit there frequently; did you 1mow Gener!ll

Parker , \7hen ho was· cornme.nding that ..army post .
A

I have met him but I have been too busy to zet very

well acquainted with the army of'ficers and the soldiers .
I ha.ve never bade a business o..Z it .

I have c.ttcnfted strictly

to my mm vmsiness , • I met them all- met most of the men doi;m
there , just to meet the •
Q

Have you been in Pro\'11sville frequently for , say

within the lnst six months?
A

I have been there probably four times in the last six

months ,-- four or five tifl).es .
Q

Isn ' t it a fact that they run gambling wide open in

J3rovmsville at that tii!lC?
A

Ho , I don ' t lo1o·n that .

Q

You could not say that they or did not?

.A

Ho , I would believe it if 'J! heard it .

I don 1 t think

that there is very m' ch doubt about it , but I don ' t Jmow it .
Q

7G

I heard the other day so.Jething about one of the county

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 Commissioners there being

arrc~ted

with a car load of booze ;

do you 1mov: anything about that?
A

Yes ;

the Ranr;crs v1cnt to Point Isabel and got him and

br·oue;ht him to San Boni to .

He passed bcfor~

I didn ' t see him.

the Justice the1~e and uas aftcrwc.rds taken to IJercelit.es .

Q

Do you know hou W.uch they go, of him?

A

I have heard it differently re ported , f1·om 62 to 82

quarts .
Q

Do you knou what rms done with the material?

A

That booze ,--no , sir , that is another thing I never

Q

Do you know whether or not he we.s r>rose cuted in the

want .

district fourt for having- A

I think he was indict ed .

Q

Do you. :imo17 whether he has boon suspended :Crom office

pending the indictment in a matter of that kind?
A

I think not .

I never beard of it .

Q

You do not know VThether

member o f the court of not
A

he is still sitting as a

1

I think he is , to the best of my knowledge he is .

Regardine; thc.t matte r , I don ' t

novr as it is germane to this

s itua.tio11 exce".>t in a general v1ay to shou th

situation :

I heard one of tho County Co mnissioners dovm there the other
day say that he had just put through a deal in this road business by which he hb.d gottnn an outside engineer to survey
the roads ,- and ue have ju&t voted a ~?300 , 000 . 00 bond issue
. for new roads , and he uas very hilarious from the fact that
he had clor1inated the corroni ssioners ' court and got his engineer
put in i n opposition tm:1a local ingineer whom all the re nt
Tiantcd , and the way he did i t was t o threaten if they voted
against his ma.n that he '. ·ould vote cingle and go

011

record and

g o out ?bei'o:r~ the people in the coL.ntw and tell uhy he voted
that \'lay and that he uo ulcl give up every thing h0 knew about

'

Texas
State Library and Archives Commission
(
"'4 •'

 the grand jury and that he know about .

They all voted his

way.
LlR .

.u..ORRISO::.~ :

A

Hoi:: is that?

MR . 11rrn:ELL:

Commissioners r Court , you mean?

Q Do you know who is on that County

Co..:nmissioner r s bond \7ho was fom1d with that war cargo?
A

no , sir , I don Tt .

SENATOR W ILLIFORD :

Q Was the Ranger indicted for

ar~esting

arresting the man or

the booze?

A

I don rt think the Ranger was indicted .

Q

The man that had it- - I understood you to say that

the Ranger was?
A

Mo , I don r t think the Hanger wc.s indicted.

I think

the county commissioner was indicted.
CH.AIRMAN BJ.JID':OE :

Q

In other wo rds , you have a very

bad situation in Cameron County?
A

I think so .

up here to

t

And the sequel to the story is ,

'.Te

et the Governor to riako goo , ho L:p us out and

clean it up .

I believe if he will.l do it o.na get clean

poliJ.:; ics down

the""'~

O\"ill

forces .

l:?.re

that we c:::n handle the situation with o r

'fe may always have smuggling since the tcrri tory

is there unless there i
men back and forth .

SOin6

cooperation there for handling

You may always have to kee:p some

Rangers there but Pe can clean up a great :;iercentage of the
matters dom1 there if'

\70

can get clean politics .

I have

talked ,1ith your Ranger Stevens ; ho tells mo that the authorities

011

the other side are more than 'filling to eoope:rate

with him as a Ranger in handling back and forth bad men to
each other , and if we can get a cotu1ty judg e that will work
tr' th the people on the o:;>posite side and if any arre..:ne;omcnts

can Ge brought about by which legally they can be exchanged
the thing cen be -eleaned up nnd I believe they ·will v1illine;ly

78

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 work uitli us to clean up .

They say they have their bandits

and renceades there und they would like to cieand up b¢; they
say their bandits can come to our side and be harbored and
our can do the same thing , - cooperation betveen the Governor
and the authorities there would "ue the best thing to clean up
things doi;m there . It is an &uful tasy matter to \'1ade that
river or go acro ss it &omctioes .

have

Q

Have you ever soon any Texds Rangers dovm there drunk?

A

I don 1 t think I have seen any of them drunk but I

he~rd

of thei:1 bein5 drunk in the early clays .

Q

I mean in the last four years?

t

Ho , sir .

Q

Have you hearcl of .any of those Texas Rangers being

arrested or charged with the commission of nny

~dnd

of mis-

demeanors in a toun nhere they were operating or in scrvicw ,
rightine , carrying arms , displaying pistols or

inti~idatint;

people or beat i nG up the people?
A

I don 1 t

~mow

intimiclatin[ citizens .

of a time that I have heard of their
I don 1 t .:mow whether at the time

they '\rere Rnngors or not , thir: was so 'let ime
lately, ui thin the last year or tuo .

ago , ~ 'V'!e

have not

I think in the last year

or two that the Ranger force do\m there has been very clean ,
and I think that the tendency regarding the gun business is a
point I would like to speak of .
Q

Could you indicate to the

co~~jttec

at this time any

Ranger in. the service there that you know that ought to be
rerioved from the service?
A

That is in the Rangers there now?

Q

That is in the service anyuhero?

A

Yes ,

1.o , I don 1 t .

I don 1 t think Daniel Hinojosa is a f it man to

e · n the Rane:er service .
Q

Do you know any others?

A

l.o ; liot persoually and not by name .

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 1

0,

How , you can make your other statement .

A

About the Dun business : 17hcn we fir::::t went there the

Rangers used to ..,e around the depot and

0:.1

the streets with

guns on , in ple.in vieu , and no disposition t

-eovcr them at

all .

Q

That has

A

Yes ;

~'aylo:r. ,

Capt .

~een

several years ago?

Capt . \'iright and Ca.pt .. 0te:phens and I think
they have them orders to wear their coats when

ever it was cool enciugh to they could and to keep th0m o-p.t
of sight .

It is a bad emotion for our

:.~orthcr

people who

v1e1·e corQ.ing there to spend the vrinter for their heal th , to
come there uith ideas of settling there , to sec those men

sun

those
r10

~alkins

men

Lre "'lot used

~

arou..t1d .

o that .

V.'hat does thut mean?

something awful down here . "
out

~exas

'.llhey say , "What docs this m0ah?
~ou

must have

':le just explain that they

arc

Rangers , and we are on tho border , and make as light

of it as possible and let it go at thl!.t .

I do not say that

the Rangers have gone arot..nd in a bullying way i;1i th them P..t
all ; they simply wear
EX.A.III!. 'D BY

Q

~ill .

~tihem

in sight , that is all .

TID\/ELL:

Have you ever had any law aliiding Mexican citizen

down there that i11ould be called an ordinary Mexican ci tizon
laH abiding?
A

Absolutely.

r.:an;," of them .

Q

Have you had any

citi~en

of that kind in your presence

or to co.no to you as an indiviP.aul and make complaint of intimidation or mistreatment ·e.t tho hands of the

~ex

s :.angers

.Poree?
A

All this--

I col ld not name any.

Q

Have tho:- come to you as an individual or haveyou

heard tb.Eln through other i11di vi duals makin j' com-olaint of
intimidation or aistreat!?lont at the hands ol th, Ranger force?
A

Yes , I have hoard

·~hey

say t .hat the Rangers were a

menace , thav they did not use discretion enough o.nd that

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 tb.ey frifhtenod innocent people ano. that the innocent
peop l e were

o~raid

of them as guilty pco:?le .

Q

That the lavr abiding i....exican citizen---

A

That the law abiding Iioxican citizen were afraid

of them ,

YL~ ;

that it

i"!aS

a question of intimidation , but a I

think that Capt . Step hors ' method and Capt .
uill

r.i~1e·

~7rights

method

that out and I believe that if it can be brow;ht

abort that the Rane·or force , tnet we citizens can

im:prc~s

them that they are there siP.i11ly to catch tho lm7less and not
the innoc0nt , that the confidence anC. coopere.tion of a
percontae-e of the Mexican people can be gained and help them
out .

I do

ot believe that any racb has a monopoly of all

vittuos or of all sins ;
in every race .
perconta.<)·c

o~

I believe there arc good and br.i.d

I believe this ;

I do not care hou small a

the race is good snd reputable citizen-s, that we

can afford to capi tilize that little c,n(l

0

nfcr induce' ients to

the others by shoi7ing that hhose r;no do right Tiill be treated
richt , that will be the q_uickest

Q

ray to get them to do right .

You are personally acquainted with so"lo la\7 abiding

lle±ican citizens?
A

Absolutely.

Q

You have.ri.cvor had any trouble with IHexicf!ll citizens ?

A

He is our asset and necessity .

I- never had any trouble with any of them .

I have been

very much out of :patience with the \?ay they work!led and. the
way they did. someti.ne s and. al that , but I have had. the same
experience ':Ii th A.nericans I hired. .

In the oil busi!rnss

not find all of the oil men that are sa:!; i sfactory.

~ ;c

I c>,m one

that does not believe in the race line of crine or sin or
virtue .

8t

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

do

 75

EXAMI NED BY MR . MCMILLAN :

Q I n the beginning of your testimony you spoke in general
that the actions of the

~Rngers

were satisfactory , but that

there had been cases of misconduct .
stitutcs misconduct in a
A

To your mind what con-

~anger?

I think if a Ranger goes into n place to arrest a man

and intimidates him and bullies him

inste~d

of simply arrest-

ing him and doing what is necessary to arrest him that he is
overstepping his authority .

If he goes in and brmvbea.ts him

or gun beats him or anything of that sort I don ' t believe it
is right .

If it is neccs ary to do it because he is breaking

army or trying to i:?:et away from bim , there are exceptional
circumstances which warrant it , but I do not think it is
nece~sary

to go any farther than necessary to accomplish this

object .
Q But you have information that there has been conduct

of tJ:iat kind?
A \le hear it all the time .

IiU is self evident fact

from wl:at I gain in the Cfpitol and everywhere , that that
is done to a certi>in degree by
knowledge .

cert~

in 11en.

It is common

'Pb.at is the cause of this investigation , if I

understand , so far as I can find out - it is the wrong ao ing
of some - and I \!ill say a small percentage , I judge of the
HanBers , that he.s brought the great shame upon the Rar:gers
which is upon them today, and which is the cause of t h is
investigation .

·,"/e are not developing anything nevi by admitting

that and I think that should be looked to just as essentially
as nny other part of it, but we need the Rangers down there .
&XMIIN~D

Q

BY iIR .

CANAL~S :

Colonel , there have been Rangers stationed at Brovm-

ville forseveral months past , haven ' t there?
A

I think they have been there almost continuously since

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 I have been there.

I haveh ' t kept close track of them . I know

they are going and coming .
During this time you saw them often do...-n town in tre
dqytime?

A I have seen them there , yes sir .
Q Judge Tidwell asked you about the gambling going
rampant, sometimes the court house gang was in and sometimes
the city gang was in , and wanted to get out ,- this has happened
while the Rangers were there?
A

While the Hangers were in the Valley?

Q

Yes , while the Rangers were in the Valley, in Brovms-

VillG?
A

I could not swear to dates . I believe so , but I could

not swear to dates.
Q

Isn ' t it a fact that the gambling has been permitted

in Brownsville , sometimes

protecte~

by the City authorities and

sometimes by the county authorities , and sometimes byconjunction, and during all this time sometimes the Hangers have 'been
there?
A

I could not say protected.

Q Well , overlooked?
A

It has not been cleaned out, yes , and the army officers

have taken a hand in it to clean it out.

I have heard that

army officers said that it was nbout as rotten as anything they
have been up against .
Q

They never told me that , however .

You know of the disturbances in restaurants and other-

wise by Rangers there in the last four or five months?
sir .

A

No

Q

Captnin \/right has only been stationed there a short

time, since

Capt~in

Taylor was relieved last December?

A Yes, I believe so .
~

Ca~tain

Taylor had been stationed there a

and sine e Ca:!.)tain Stephens v1as rel icved tb ere?
A Yes, I think so .

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

~hart

time

 Q

In fact , Ca1>tein Stephens was in Brovmsville up to

about the latter oart of August?
l...

I believe so .

Q And prior to Ca:ptrin Stephens do you remember who
used to be there - wasn ' t jtCapt sin Ransom?
A

Captain Ransom was tlere during tre bandit trouble .
And then Captain

A

S~

unders , for a little v1hile?

I believe so ; yes , Captsin Saunders .

I have met

Capt Hin Saunders once or twdic e .
Q Captain Stephens was not there possibly for more than
about trree or four months?
A

I should judge so .

~

A, d then Cart::in Taylor was there about tr.ree or four

months and Cuptain :'..'right simply about a month or so?
A

I think that Captain Taylor was there from the time

of the removal of Ca1,ta in Stephens up to a month ago, and
Ca~t~in

Q

Taylor came in .

You mean Captain Wright ccne in?

A Yes , Captain \!right .
Q Now , those are the men that you say - Captain Stephens
and Captf in 11right -

they have conducted themselves apreea'bly

and nice , isn't that night?
A

I think so , to tte best of my knowledge .

Q Prior to that you said you noticed some drunkeness and
mistreatment?
A

Yes sir .

Q

The incident about this man being

,~illed

on the road

from Point Isabel to San Ben;to by Ranger Saddler and Sittre
was under Capt"'in Stephens ' Command , v1asn ' t it?
A

I don't knov1 whose command that happened under.

Q

Under whose command at the

ti~e

- It was Ranger Sittre

wasn ' t it?
A

~hat

could be very well estrblished .

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

I h9ard it after

 it had happened sometime ; it vms rumored in the way that such a
thing had happened .

Q Colonel , wi th regard to this tPking part in politics ,
you stated in answer to Sena tor IaP-e tha,t ; t was only lately I s it not a fact that formerly tl· ey have always taken ei des in
intimidating voters at the election but it

hap~ened

to be on

t he prevailing side the.re and nothing was Stlid about i.t?

s

~hat

Q

Ye s , formere ly? ·

A

'ile have und ersteod , and there has never been anyth ing

Ra.ngers participaterl in the elections ?

done about it, that t:,ey were co - operating with tbe Ri ng ,
yes sir ; that trey cane tr.ere and worked with the "rine."

Q

You recollect the time when the Independent Iarty had

cundidDtes there tv10 or three times during 1908, 1910 ancl 1912 ,
then the Hangers used to intimidate the - were used at the
polls tllerc for the l)Urpose o'! intimidating the voters - wur-n ' t
tr.at a. fact?
A

I don ' t knon .

I e:ould not say.

I absolutely refused to

h ib ernate with either the rea orthe blues on lines down there
at that time .
slu~h

r:ihey both R0mi tted to me tr at they hall tr ei r

funas and were fighting the devil

~ith

fire . I told them

e.,s long as they fought the devil vii th fir$ they

;·:oul~

have two

hells and all· :ould be the s11me - the only vvay was to :!'ight
Li m with holy wate r, end when they organized a whit e party I
.voul d to.ke part in it and vrn -..voula. have the red , whi t e a.nd
bll.40 , but
~hey

T

refused - I held tt e right to vote :for . .-.-horn I pl ell secl •

call me a Democrat because I

~ouldn ' t

vote on tte

yello~

basis ; I told them I difn ' t believe i n the yellow dog basis ; I
woul 1n ' t fol lon it and I told them I v. ould vota for v1hornsoever

I ples secl on v1hatev er ti ckot ;rave me tr.e be st. man, and as long
as they

were:~

both f ighting the

a evil

vii t:r fire , I via.Rn ' t goin~

to go into tl- e :!: i ght .

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

dog

 ~

Colonel, with regard to the friction between the

sheriff then and tl:e Rangers last summer, warn ' t it due to
the fact tJ:at there was a candidate

brou~l:t

out ap;ains t

Ca9tain Vr.nn and supported , that the RangerR were supporting
that other cindidate as nR'ainst Ca.11tcin Vann - wasn ' t that
~hat

the friction was due to?

A 'i'he fact that a candidate was running against Vann?
Q Yes , and supported by the Range r s .
A

No , I aon ' t think so . I think that the cause of the

Rangers looking into the proposition was the move tl:at J . C.
Bowie and myself headed to clean up politics down there and
that we rl n four dandidates , not because they i·1ere our choice
of candidates but because trey were not Jim Wells ' choice . They
we r e on opposite s i des - they were neither red nor b l ue; they
were independents , some of them hadcrawlefl on their stor'lachs for
Jim

i"/ ellr

' :mpport and ha.dn ' t r,ot it so

ticket because we

~anted

\70

pnt them on the

sonebooy else and tley got on the

tickets and we did what we could on very short notice to oppos e
the ring , and we ma.de a very gooa showing and have been ·patting
our selvei:- on the backs· ever since .
Q

Grolonel , 7;i th reeara to the trouble -

A But as far as the Hanp;ers interfering with the polls
there , so far as I know , I took no part ana didn ' t go out with
them , but as far as I know the report came that one of the
county officials was holding the ele ction in one precinct a.nd
tl:ere was trouble in the other precinct and c-.ome people
were deputized and went out there and just the condit i on that
they found I· r . Bowi e can tel l you better than I can .
Q

With regard to the sta.rting of that t rouble in 1915 ,

would you for the benefit of the committee give what in your
opinion you consider was the starting - I think you r:ientioned
tt-at lynching of that man by Daniel liinojosa and Frank Carr ,
or with their consent ?

8() State Library and Archives Commission
Texas

 A

I did not state that it was them or ttat they had

their conrent .

I

stated that the man was started for Brownsville

along in -- by Frank Carr - I don ' t know that Daniel Hinojosa
was with him at the time. He was his deputy . I know he was his
deputy.
Q The character of Daniel Hinojosa - do you know what
kind of character he in?

A Only what I have seen and heard of him . I heard him in
the presence of a mass meeting down there state to us .all
that he under Frank Carr ' s orders had collected ten dollars

a week from the booze go'''s and yussy joints and had

'1 ivided

it (don't put that down) ; he stated that in a public Plecting ,
a.nd under that statenent they wer e both arrested ana put under
a thousand - dollar bond; that was the last we heard of it .
Q

When he was made a Ranger were you surprised , or not ,

at that character of 1nan being :placeO. on the Ranger force?

A I don ' t know about my surprise at it. I was sorry .
Q

Did you call attention of any offic'ial v1ith regard to

that matter?
A

Since I came here?

'
·~

Yes sir .
I mentioned it ; yes sir .

To whom?
A

I think to th~

Ao jutant

General and one of the gentle-

men over there in the office .
~

Now you were oll at a Meeting there with the AajutEnt

Gener1l?
A

Yes sir .

~

The whole delegation , practicelly aJl the parties were

there?
Quite a number of us, yes .
(\

'<-

And they asked his opinion as to urat was the best

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 meth-.>d t .:> cJpe with the si Cu tt. ti on of t he Ranger E].Uestion'?
A

I don't ktiow that we a sked him thut question.

Q

Well, he offered s ome su( gestion a s t o wha t shoul d be

done, didn't he'?
A

I think he

si.

mply suggested a cleaning up of the

force, he wal:3 willine to clea.11 it up and w1..1.11 ted to do so.
Q

And tha t the way t o clean it was by r a isi.ng s a laries?

A

That ei.11d d ischa rgi11g the ba d element.

Q

Now, Colonel----

A

I understood from tha t off ice that they were going

to discha rge Daniel Hinojosa as soon as he had finished
a certain job, ~s I understa nd the Adjutant General did not
know his chu raoter.
Q

Do you think by raising the salary of Daniel Hinijosa

or any man, whether Mex icau or Anglo-Saxon, thei. t it would
cha11ge his c:hu. rao ter?
A

· It would lessen his temptation t o co l leot money from

booze gows;

he w0uld have somethine t o live on if they

raised hiB sulary, - he wo 11ld have some thing to live on but
I would not be i ll favor of taking my cha nces

011

that.

is another class of Hanger8 I would be afraid of .

There

One een t le-

man told me that there wa s one gentleman who wa s a first c l~ ss
Ra nger but that he was there not for the fifty dollars a
month but for the sensation of the game.

My idea about that

is that a ma.a ~ho goes in that business for the sensation of
it at fifty dollars a month , if the se11s a ti on is not running

high enough he is liable to the temptation to create the
opportunity to collect his pay, if that is the basis he is
there on.
Q

You said you have not met the personnel of the

Rangers outside of Captain Stephens and Captain Wright,
both of the m very fine gentlemen.
kI1ow all¥

88

pri~ates,

Outs ide of them do .you

private Hangers?

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 A

If I were t 0 s ay here I did not know those gentleman

they would meet me at1d s ay afterwards, "Why did you deny the t
you knew me?"

I have met ma11y of them but I have a faculty

;..-traveling the country f i fteen ye t~rs. as I did. 111 the
theatrical business and meeting ~om. Dick a..nd Harry. never to
speak t ~ them aga in, I formed the ha.bit of forge t ting names
in conrte c tion with faces.

I c an remember faces but I do 11ot

connect t he name with the faCJe and I labor under a. v ery sad
disadvantage that way .

I cannot say I know this man or t ha t

man for I may meet those men and speak t o them because I know
their faces, and shake hands with them on a friend l y basis , but
I

dont remember their names many times afterwards .
Do .Y'''u know aity other persons aside ·from those you

Q

menti oned taken out of jail a nd found deaa next day around
San Benito in 1915?
A

I heard of them.

I heard me n say that they started to

take them t o this place or that place and they got to
quarreling with each other and killed each other , and such
things as that.

That is what I don't belieYe in. That is what

I am opposed t o .

Q

Do you know Judge Pur vis , who used t o be Justice of the

Peace, of San Benito?
A

Yes, si r.

Q

Do yoQ know where he is?

A

I do no t. The l a.st I knew of him he was very sick and not

expected t o live.
Q

Wher~

A

I th ink he was i n San Benito. I think he was Just ice of

was he at that time?

the Peace at that time.
Q

I want tJ examine him if he is there .

MR . L10HH1S0H : If you will a.l lovr me t o volunteer, I t h in k he
is

clea.d .
TlD~ WI':i:'IIE SS:

I hadn' t hea rd.

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 {MR· CANALES)

You did n o t see personally any of those

Q

man dead a.ro Ulld Sa11 Benito during this trouble?
I saw those two men that were out on my property and

A

I saw two men that were brought in from the back country and

put in the back of a store that had been very badly beaten
up but I don't know whether it was soldiers or who it ~as that
did that .
MR. CAUA1~S: That is all.
b.:XA1HHED BY MR. TIDWELI,:

Have you ever heard any threats of personal violence

Q

to or towar d Mr. Canales in that sec ti on of the country'?
A

No, sir.

Q

Now, you spoke while ago of that M.exica.n that is on

the Rnnger force making a confession that he h1,td aecep ted
bribes fr om the j oints and other disreputab l e places: did he
make tha t confession in that meeting, - was that before he was
appointed ·a Ranger or after he was appointed a Ranger?
A

I doa' t know:

my impression is he had been a Raneer

before and wa s our local as s istant aI1d that he afterwards has
been put back in the Hangers.

I don't know of my own knowledge

that he had ever been a Ranger before that time.
Q

Do you knov. whether or not the Adjuta.11 t General's

office, if

he was afterwards pu.t 'oa.ck ill the service, if he

was put back in the service after this happened, do you know
whether or not the Adjutant General's office had ever been
advised of his having made that confession?
A

No, sir:

did n o t know that.

I

thiflk the Adjutant General said thu t he
There is another point which is,- it

ta.lees co11s idera ti on. they say, a.ll.d it is an o lcl ada ge, "set a
rogue t o catch a rogue."

~hey say we have to have this fellow

that has been in those slums and dives and .knows the ropes to
go get him, that he . caI1 do it better tha r1 the man who don 't

HO
Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 kn:OW vhc

ropes , better than a high- class man .

There is argument

in that , gentlemen.

Q

That is a matter that is larf cly acadcillic rather than- -

A

It is up to the head of it to kno\l VJho they get .

I

don ' t doubt that :>a'1icl Hinojosa could "70rk out a scheme as
a detect ive ,-- it is not my intention or desire to go into
the p""st , to .Li nd fault or pick flaws. or to criticize anybody- 1l'H

time

CllAIRIWT :

~s getti~s

A

I am

If you vlill pardon me , the Committee ' s

to very limited .
loo~ing

THE C J:A.I:::w~ :

to the future .
\'fe feel •that ·the examination should be

conducted on a question and ansvTCr bas is and
f

robably

v10

can

et along faster .
MR. '... IDW.J ..::i :
1

Q
~or

What has

I want to ask one more question.
ee~

tho class of the Ranger service

the le.st ci :htccn months , compared nith thet of the Ranger

service for the eighteen montbhs p receding?
A

I think there ho.s been a decided iuprovement , as

far as our section of the

cou11.tr;j~

is concerned

Q

The Ranger servi ae of 1915- 16?

A

I am prejudiced on that be cause---

Q

You did not catch my qy:estion .

The Ranger service

for 1915 and 1916 wasn ' t s o good , that is , it was more of a
lav1les s mob than it was for 1 17 and 1. 18 , if I understand
you correctly?
A

Yes , the circumstcnccs Here vefy different ; there was

the bandit situation there th._t ;year that is not t'-iere now .

The

clo se of the ·war has Y!ipcd out a groat mo.11y-Q

Do you remembe r uhen the -:mgine was wrecked dorm there

in uhich the engineer , Kendall , was ki lled?
A

I s uw the vre ck the next morning , yes , sir .

Q

What year \'las that?

91 State Library and Archives Commission
Texas

 A

I think that was in 1915 .

1

Latter part of 1915?

A

I thinlr so .

Q.

Conditions 7vere chaotic at that "1iime?

A

AbRolutely.

~

And still were in 1916?

11

Yes sir.

Q How was it in 1917 and 1918 in respect to its condition

on 1915 and 1916?
A

Better .

Here is a thing that possibly bears upon it.

I don ' t ·;1a.nt to take up too mrwr. timA , but false reports and a panic was ma.de ttere by false reports , as an incident, there
ca1-::e a report to to·;m one time that there wercseventy bandits
in camp down there ready to tnke trc tov:n ,

ana

t:r.e soldiers

went down one side of to'.711 , fifty or si:xty , and civilians on the
otl er side, and when they got there tr ere ·;:as one old tiexican
and their little boy and one oln burro and tortillo ana they had
culled e21 ss to thatch their cottwe , that is all their was to it .
The next report went out over the United States that Mr. Jim
Landrum ' s da ugrter who was married at Bro,·ms ville and caMe 7.ri th
their automobile to San Benito :had to duck from bullets fired by
these

tlan~ers

- or those bandits .

filhose things wer e believed and

the air was rife with reports of such things . Jhen we spoke to a
newspa1Jer -;;ho P;ave out such thinP.'s he defended himself by
saying hP. could not follow up those reports , to trace them
do~n

before he sent tre news in and that he got four dollars a -

piece for every one of

t~ose scoo~s

he sent in, that's the

connition .
CBAifil,lAN BLJIDSO~ :

A

He was getting his take- off was he?

He was getting his take- off .

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 ~¥

Q

[IJ:Um BY I.lR . Iuci.IIL:i°.JI:N :

You are az1are of the Ce.ct that

.;i

is

ap~ointment

of

this fcllo,·; Dan Somebody that seems to ue so bad , do you knovr
hen he was a pointed?
A

-r
.r.o
' sir •

Q

Do you

1'110;1

anylihine; about his acts in service before

his appointment?
A :No , I don ' t {mow anything about it .

He v1as in San

Bc!!i to after that happcnc9- , he was put on out San Benito
force as deputy city marshal .

The next I knew I caine here and

found he vm.s on the Ran er fo ce .

I didl:P t Jo1ow he was a Ranger

until I reached here the other day.
EXAJHNED BY iffi . TIDWEJJL:
~

Do you remember

about the date that he made this

confession of having accc)?ted bribes from those disreputable
places?
A

How long has that been?
That has been , I suppose , three years ago .

------------------------------

9J State Library and Archives Commission
Texas

 CRAIR!!AN BmDsOE :

I

ar.i

going to sa7 to you we are going

to get off of this branch of the investigation pretty soon.
We oannot spend all our time on this Benerel oond4.t1on down

there. We muat go into epectf1o facts and matters looking
more to the ultimate oonolus1on of the inveetigatton.
MR. HBY\1"00D:

That 1s whet I v.unt to g1.ve you. some epee1fic

fGots about raids and murders up there and I am looking for

ur. Avant

do~'ll

on the noon train.

__ .,.. _____ .........

h av1nr, first been dul·y s'?:orn by !tr. Tidwell, testified

before the Committee. ao follows:
(Examined by Chairman Bledsoe)
Q

Give thE> stenographer 7our name. age, ocoupation and

ree1denoe ..

A

lly name is L. R. Milli can;

Baptist minister out 1n

the trana-Peoos country. for over thirty-one years •
...........

~

Where do 7ou live?

A

At Alamo, Hudspeth County.

Q

Dia you over

A

No; I am out in that

liv~

down in San Benito?
u~per

n10 Grande country from

El Peso down aa fe:r as Alpine. that :B1g Bend aountry.
Q

Do 1ou know anything about condtttons existing below

Brownsville and that country?
A

Not a thing except in a general way ae I see in the

papers.

Q

You are up tn the---

Texas State Library and Archives Commission
94

 Yea. Sierro Blanco 1e our

A

ooun~

seat. where the two

Railroads, the T. & P. and the Southern l'ac1t1c come together.
you~ llved

in that oountry?

Q

How long have

A

I have been livine at Alamo, I believe, l"ill soon be

nineteen years,- thirty-one years (ago) the !iret of October
I went to Midland.

Have you or not been acquainted with the Ranger force

Q

tba t ha a been operating in thEt t 1mmod 1et e s oct ion tho la st

two or throe

~ers?

A

Yes, in a general way. and some of them in a pe.rtiouler

Q

All r13ht. How many of them have you known and do

way.
you know intimately?
Well, ! know, I have known a good many of them tolerably

A

1nt1matoly and not very intimately eithor. I lmow them in a
general way and meet them and sometimes when there ia a bunoh

of them at Valont1ne I heve
~eale

gon~

out eeverel times and taken

with them; the same way et S1erro Blanco. When Captain

McDonald's company was stationed there. 19ers ago, before we
baa muoh town.
Q

What bas beon the oharaoter and condition of men con-

stituting the Ranger force in 7our v1oin1ty, sa7 for the last
two or three years?
A

It has been. as far as I know end could understand,

all right.

There was one of the RerJgors killed a man, a

soldier, in El Paso, in a saloon.

That oroated a good deal of

stir; that wee four or five years ego.
remember dates and

names~-but

I undetetand--I cannot

it was in the papers. and he was

indicted and tried.- I don't just know what booeme of the
matter.

Wbieky was, I suppose, at the bottom of it.

Mr. san6e

we.a ordinarily said to be a fine offioer down below and at
plaoee he wes said to heve done good work but from the reports

he and the soldier that he first got in a fight with, that he

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 beat up was-

Q

You are testifying about matter you have no personal

knowledge of?
A

I don't know pereonelly except what I reed 1n the

papers.
Q

You are referring to the k1111ng of that old sergeant

by Sands?

A

I don't know anything personally about it.

Q

Let's limit 7our testimony to the matters about wh1eh

1ou have poreonal lmo•1ledge. I would rather you tell us about

the Rangers that you have known personally and what the
character of their operation has been in
A

~our

neighborhood.

Well. Captain Hughes was out in our country tor a

long time.
Q

Who was?

A

Captain Hughes.

Q

ThE\t

A

That ls baok several years. Then oame Captatn McDonald

was---

end then Captain Fox. Mr. Vaughn and Yr. Bishop and Mt-. YoKensie and various men heve been out there as Rangers. and !tr.
Goodwin.
Q

Have 7ou known of any misconduct on the part of any

Rangers in your

A

co~unity

tn the last two or three years?

I do not. There was some reports about something that

happened down on the river about somo Uexioans that had been

arreetod and killed. - some oonneoted the RaDgers with 1t
end some oonnaoted various onoa.- I don't know a thing about

it personally.
Q

You have no information you oould give us about it?

A

I have no personal oonnection with the matter.

Q

Ia

A

now, I would like to make some statement about gre$t

the~e

any question by any member of the committee?

9t) State
needLibrary
we have
of Archives
the Rangers
out there.
Texas
and
Commission

 CHAIR!Wl B!EDSOE:

So far as the Committee is oonoernea.

I am sure we are going to oonoede that the necessity
erlste. We had just as well understand that

n~w.

What is the feeling of the Con:mittee with referenae to it?
SENATOR PAGE:

I do not think there 1e any question about

the necessity for the Ranger force.
mE ''ITNF.SS:

~e

oould not live out there without 1 t.

We oould not exist wt thout 1 t.
EXAliIIBD BY SE!fA IGR WIT.1LIFORD:
Q

You say you are a m1nister1

A

Yea, sir.

Q

Traveling a good deal?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

Up

A

Sir?

Q

Up and dovin that oountry?

A

All over that country.

Q

Did you hear any serious complaint against the

and down the river?

Ransore from the good people?
llo. from good people it was all in favor of the

A

Rangers.
Q

Do yau. know of any instance of them abusing any

pooplo or being boiste.roua in their presence?

A
Q

A

Bo. ! do not.
. Or

mldd.ng arrests in an unwarranted manner'?

llo. I do not. As f ar es my aoqu.a1ntanoe wt th them and

m1 aaaooiation with thern, 1 t he.a been--! have slept in the aeme
z-oom a number of timea at Velent1ne with them.
Q

How many Rangers are located 1n your town now?

A·

We

Q

Ha_v e none?

A

Marta ts the headquarters.

Q

Do you visit ?!arfa frequentl7?

ba~e

none in Blanco.

Texas
"9 ' State Library and Archives Commission

 A

I am there about onoe a month. passing through.

Q

How long do you stay there?

A

! ftm just passing through there.

Q

Don ' t atop off?

A

Yes. ! stop off: usually spend the night going to

Fort Duvis and cet e meal somotimes at night ae I come baok.
Bev~

Q

you seen a Texas Rangor out there int1m1det1ng

or mistreating s citizen in any way?
A

No. sir.

Q

Hos any o1 tizen oome to you in any loaa11 ty where

you are

an.a: · s~ocitied

any pnrtioular place or time when he

was mistreated by Texas Rangers?
A

No. I don't remember of sn1thing of th.at kind and

the only oooasion that ! know now

abou~

the Rengers being drunk

out in there 1n the last years were the ones ! spoke of, but
peruonal11 I don't know anyth1ng about lt.
Q

We a:re not going that many yeat"a baok--at least I

don't want to.
CliAIRHAlJ B!.IEDSOE:

•

I guess that 1s about all that tho

gontlemsn knows.
A

years

We have had raids out there dating baok to a number of
dO?ill

to laat spring when GlGn Devils was killed down

south of Van Horn.
CIIAIR..!All DLEDSOE:

llR. CJ,IU LES :

Do you desire to ask him?

No. sir.
- x-X- :<i•

~-1r-x-:r.-:x-~«-x-x-

9
Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 CHAIRMAN BLEDSOE:

statement this

Judge ttosee. do 7ou desire to make any

a~ternoon?

JUtGE DAYTON MOSES:

If I make any I would desire to make

it this aftornon beoause I em leaving.

DAnoN HOSES.

having been f1r$t duly sworn by Ur. Tidwell, of the

Committee, and being examined, gave the following testtmon1:
EXAMINED 1'Y OHA IRU..UJ B!AEDSOE :
Q

Give the stenographer your name and residence?

A

Dayton uoaes:

Q

You are one of the attorneys for the Texas Cattle

Fort WORTH.

Raiaors' Association?
Si~.

A

Yes,

Q

How long have you been?

A

Nearly three years.

Q

During that time you heve booome more or leas temi11er

with the operation of the cattle industry and its business up
and down the Rio Grande river?

A

Yee, sir.

Q

Keny of the residents of that country are engaeed in

stook ra!.atng?
A

Yea, e1r.

Q

And are members of your aesoc1at1on?

A

Yee, sir.

Q

Your duties as a member of that aaeoo1et1on has brought

From El Paso to Brownsville.

you more in contaot with them than horetofore1
A

Yes, eir.

Q

Do you understand the conditions

~xtsting

there end

oan you tell us what neoessit1ee exist for the cont1nuat1on
of the Ranger force along the border, if the neoessities demand, or cond1tione, rather?

94J

A

I think 1t 1a necessary that tho Ranger force be oon-

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 t1nued in operation along the $nt!re intornationel boundary
line from El P.aso to Brov.'?lsv!lle;

reason of the fRct

the neoesei ty exists by

to a very large extent it is a country

th~t

of msgnificient diatanoes, largo rsnohea, rough land. The
topography o:f the country prevents it from being i;hiakly
populated.

A great ma.ny of the people ''ho live on this side

of the river are of a dif.fercnt race trom our o~n. There nre
a good many people

e~~-a•.eli~t+

o:f our own r.aoe who live on this

side of the rivar who are not ottr boBt oltizens. and the
dangers of bandi tey from the

u...~happy

ooun·t.ry on tho other

side i.s onr menace and threatening, and unquee·tionably will

oontinue for sevoral ycsrs, end that, oonpled

'\\~lth

the faot

th.at 111 the lcmer portion of the rivor country from Lnredo
south anr north from the river for a atetence, in some places,

of 150 miles, the oountry ie extremely brushy, which nakes it
easy

~or

theives and bandits to hide. and it ia unfortunately

truo that tho S:JUIPSthy that exists because they ere of th&
o~me

rsoe. there are a great many l!fe:d.oans on this side of the

rive!.• who perhaps <lo not thomaclvcs vi olete the law 1et they

harbor, or it is Benerally supposed, st least, thst they
harbor mon who aro believed to be violators of the law, who

eithar orosa the river from the othor aide or looal talent
on this sido of the

rive~,

mskes it neoeaaary to have a foroe

that in the disob:lrge of their duties, constantly, or at least
a portion of them, arc aonatantl7 on the scout.
Somo qu&stions 'rtere suggested thie morning as to v1hether

or not the sheriff' a department could hendl.e these situations.
It 1.s unfortunately true th&t our ·ree.cso off:ioers in TeJJ:as are

not paid as mueh money as they ought to be paid, especially
in the smaller counties.

It ts probably true that 1n the eity

thoy are paid too much money. but whnt is commonly known es
oo~ntr~

oountios,

the~

are not pata enough mone7 to justify

keeping men. deputies constantly on the soout. and !

1ij tl

thin-~

it Library
ta absolutely
necessaryCommission
that the force be continued, end
Texas State
and Archives

 I vtlll eo fnrther and say thRt if: the F.anger £orco was abolished

or if it

~as

aonoluded

th~t

tho lceislation whiah is

no~

ing in the House would have tho offect to neutroy its

pend-

effici~nay

thet the business of raistng stock, o:?.ttle, sheop and goats ,

alone the entire border line would extremely

ha~erdous

and would

result in l.tnquestionnble losa to the ownerc of that stock,

z.m.

T!DW:gi:.!J:

Thorc

Q

'"'.!lS

e wealthy Uex!can down on the

border e few years se;o, ! do not roca 11 hie name,- the band! ts
croseed tho river and. csrr.1e<l him into :.foxioo and then he was
brought baak ano killed:

do you :r.omembr.r. thnt?

llo, sir, Judge. I personally am not familiar by aetual
(

!~nowledse

of condi tlo!ls in

~hat

ia known as the Yalle.v.

I

only know of those aondit1one from the reports of men ?!hou I

know live down there.

I never had any ocuasion to porsomtlly

know the cond1 tions along the lowor. Rio Grande.

I <.10 not recall

tl10 incident to ':"hieh you l'()for.
c~

Something rms snid <lbou1; sona a·pocial men,.

You are

paid. tis logal advisor of' tho citoak ns9ociatlon?
A

Yea, sir.

Q

Do you kno\': anythine about

A

Yefl. sir.

Q

1\bout how many men clo they have in the service---

A

I can not answer

·~hnt

th~-tt?

quostion in the sense it hes been

asked. '.i'he 6attle tta:!.sers' saDoclation, in ord~r to make it a

porfaot record, is an organization of cattle men \1ho live prino1 -

pell7 in the State o-f

in othor

St~tes.

Te~aa;

!n the

of. course

nan~ltne

th~.!'e

of the

aff~irs

ton we have what sre known aa Inspeotora.
fifty-nine of thoso

Insp~otors,

side of the state of Toxas.
what are known as Field men.
oeny, to

~soertain

~e~e

of the aasootatare -bout

Some of them are st8tionod out-

There are brand inap&otors and
The field. men, in the diaoharge

of their duties aro e:rpeatod to

101

are a good many

hunt out oeaes of cattle lar-

who is gu!lty, if they oen. and to assist

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 \

local of.fioora in working up ovidence in the oase. locating the
\'Yitnesaes and ascertaining what they know, with specific
instructions from the general managers
Assooiation to

wor~

0£

the Cattle Raisers'

!n conjunction with looal peace officers

of the county in whioh they may be stationod.
~'hose

brand inspectors are also charged with the duty and

rooponsibility of ftss1st1ng the loaal officers in any oases
of tho!t that ocotu' in thA.ir immod!ntc vicinity, ano in order
to assist them. make them ot more

asa!st~nce

to the looal

oi'fioors and to g1.ve them greater authority to assist in
enforcing tho law, the Adjutant General has been kind enough
on applioe tion made to his department by m3 fi:tm, to appoint
qui to a number of them Spec .1 ttl Re ngers.

They are serving,

of course. without pay to the State of Texas. with the distinct
unaeratan.d ine that thoy sre sub jeat to be called on at "llY

tima by looal of!ioera of the oounty in whioh they may be
stationed or by au.ch orders ea the At1jutant General may give

them.
CHAIRii AN BT.EDSOE:

Now. goinCT beck to the eonditions

o~­

iating. more espec1a1ly in the Western portion of the Stato and
along the !ntornationt'll boundary, you were stating tho rc3oons
for the oontinuntion of this Ranger force:
that it is absolutely

na~easnry

Your judgment is

for tha Ranger force to be

maf.ntainod?
A

Yes, sir ..

Q

Nc~'7.

bow many men are ke11 t. a a far as you know, in that

part of Texas, by the Ctep*u·tment?
A

In the Ranger :foroo?

Q

Yes.

A

! oould not say,.llr. Chairm8n, the number.

Q

You have mot and been associated with a great number

of them?
A

Yea. sir.

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 Q

Have met them at courts sn.a other placos?

A

Yes, I mow a groe t many of thoti.

Q

Whet cbar:.;cter of men cone.ti tuto the F.snt;er :.orcc 1.n

the t section of the country, more ccpecially?

· A

Well. my

~cquaintanoo--

I 1mor· Captsin'"'right very

,,·ell; have known h:lm for many , riony- years. I k:t1ov: Captain
t»~ill

narlow . \vho ls

know Captain Taylor

in t.hn service, :!!or t\<'enty
V<;ry

o·~her

!

! know Cn-pttdn Willis , who is,

v,·ell .

r.. boliovo. stationed st T...are<1o. ! know Cn-ptein
have l:iet acmo

S'C~ra.

m(m, nomo of thci.r names

P-y~n ,

and I

1. :night be able

to oall; others I might not be abl<l to cnll their names,
cou1•t.

This last fa 1.1 ! he.c\ oacesion to

end

sev~rel

of thetr

men. They were able to procure tho tcsttmony o:!." samo oattle
stealing that

oacurroc1 on tha line of .Atascoae and Frio

oountios. and it wes fair to say, am1. not
o:f:licors to aay thet it vms

throu.~h

a "NhOl<lsula cattle stec.ling

i)ropo~i ti on

~mocking

thG loosl

their of.forte that rather
was

expo£u~c1

ena the

srand jut>'J havo found ocr.te1n incii.ctnrnnt th.it are ncml1?18 in
·~hare

the courts <lovm

ever

lmc,,·~n

now for trinlo

of an:J lnv:lor:s
conc1uc t on
tho -pe.!.·t o:L any Renger?
.
/
"

A.

Do you mean :tn the last tvlO or' threo years?

Q

YM>. in-a rcaeonable t1ma. say since

~our

conneation

with the Cattle P..ai.aers ' ASSociatton?
\

A
Rang~re

no.

·none Si.nee that time.

for !\bout foj:t:ctoon

O.f

ooti"r~1C

! heve kn.own

ym~rs a~ · it'1:sttf. c1; ~"tt~rney

in a

rather large district where the ¥angers were.. freqUetntly oallea
,,

to ettend oourta when certain
important oases were being
.
~

It is my belief,

bes~d

~ried.

upon what I have heard and whst I have

seon, that the personnel of the Ranger f.orce has been very
mygh bettered and

last few

~e~~s.

b&ir oondtct hes vory.muoh improved in the

Some of their conduct was very objectionable

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 to

... ~

very many of the gooc1 peopl() of the Stato. Much oi' 1,t ie

.

bettor now than it was
Q

~: ould

l!l

good many yoara ago.

you make any auge;cstionr: as to the improvement

of the for8e at this time?

A

1. must heartily endorse

~hat

hsa been said by other

w1 tnes$eB that they ought to be paid more money, and I think

thn t they oue;h t to be nai.d mora money, and ! think there ought
to bo a oloser '\Uitch kept on them by tho Adjutant Gener~l. and

in referring to this I would say that the same thing would be
true

perha~s

of other Adjutant Generals who preceded General

Harley, and I bolieve this very invostigation that is going on
here now '\'ill have a e;ood effect an<l wl 11 have the effect to

an sdvantage of the Hangers. Some of them. it is not neoessery

to say, or

anyth~ng

of that sort, that in the discharge of

their duties th<Jy must reapeot the rights of the citizens.
They muat not reaort to any brutality or to any unneoeasar1
htu•shneS3 in
Q

ma~d.l)8

arrests

Ol"

in the invoatigation

Of

orime.

You then think the.t the pet•aonnel of the :force oould

eraduall77 ho im'!'rOVOd tUld built .up?
.A

?es, sir, ! th1n..lt so.

,Tust as a matter o:r comparison,

we aro very proud of our inspect1on force of the Cattle ha1sers'
Aaoooiation. ,Once in

t\

while some mer'lber of

out when oompleinte: are tmde

tht~t \':'Oulo

t110

foroe is let

ind) cate that he is not

n pror>or man and not a good cl tizen, but taJte it es a whole,
wlth fifty-dollar rnon on the pay roll, f.t is, really, I think ,

"'
a very fine body of man lind they ar.e apleno1d peace
officers,

but

we are able to hold that claae of men because they are

paid nll the way from seventy-ft ve dollars to t-wo hundred and

fifty dollsrs a month.

'.mle manneT in whtch they are recompensed

for their services might have a t6ndency. as compared with the
nanger pay, might have a tenflency to attract more aesirahle men

or men who in the
of the

a1scr~rge

h~rah metho~a

of their duty do not employ some

for wh1eh Rangers have been criticized ao

1t• -1: State
muoh
in theand
past.
Texas
Library
Archives Commission

 The :tact of the bus ineae 1 a.

Q

oloae touoh with those

o~

!n pretty

you~~

your men?

J\

Yes. sir.

Q

You have regular reports from them, you

kno~ ~here

they are and ,.-:hat they are doing?

A

Yes, sir; the brnnd inspectors

aaily reports; th$ field

inapector~

s~e

required to malte

ere required to make re-

porte at the end of aaoh trip that they l!.lay make and 1f the

trip is continued for several weeks th&J' are expected to make
~porte during that time.

The general manager of the Cattle

Raisers' Aaaociation at all times, I have found,

i~

able to

locate any of hls inspectors b7 the constant eommun1oat1on
that ia going on betweon them.

Q

You demand

~bso1ute

observance end respect for the

rights of others at all times?

A

At all timGs.

Q

And promptly 1nvestiga to the oomplaints made'?

A . Promptly investig3ta all complaints made and to
aas1et whenever tho officers, even 1f it ia not a cattle
larceny os.se whon called on by locel o!fiaers, beoause no

oonv1ot1on can be had in any oounty on ev&idenae furnished by

brand inspectors who may be s:rocisl Rangers unless the officials
of the county went a conviction end go out ana fight for 1t.
Q

Do you think a man who has not proper regard
I

(

-

~or

the

rights of othors ana vno ~ould ~ant to bully enc run over the
helplesa o1tizen beoause he· could by reason of his office,

ousht to bo oontinuea on tho Ranger force?
A no, ! don't think that oha77scter of man ought to be
oonttnued on the Ranger foroe. I non' t th1.nk that ahareotor

of man OUBht to bo oonttnued on the Ranger :force. po11oe
foroo.or in the sheriff's department or oonatable's force.
bcceu.ne tho!·e is no room now. 1n my op1n1on, for lalrleas

men armed with the authority of a gun, as peace officers.

Texas
1'' a State Library and Archives Commission

'·

 EXAMIIiED BY

SEUA~OR

PAGE:

Do you not think it would be a good idea for the

Q

Captein of the Ranger force, whenever his men have engaged
in a personal difftoulty, that he should mako e personal
investigation of
repo~t

due

th~t,

especially if it is a cttlzen end that

ot that should be made to the Adjut8llt' General's

department and 1f it is found that the Rnnger wae in the wrong
in it that he ought to bo immediately discharged?
I think so.

A

EXAUINED DY MR. lfc!IITJ,IU:

Did you 7mow Mr. Haymer?

Q

A
.Q

'

Yes. sir •
How lolJ8 d!d you know

hi~?

A

! havo lmown Ur. Haymer about five ~.,are.

Q

Has he been on the Ranger force ever since you knGW

A

not actively.

h1m'?

activ~ly

Ho has only boen on the Ra:nger :fot•ce

a fow months. since the time I first got acqualnted

with him. Whet I mean by actively is. on the pay roll.
Q

Do

YQU

oonstder him, .tr. Ha;ymer.-a proper man to be on

the Rnngor force• from your knov:lodgo of him·?
A

\'lell. I don• t care to g1 vo my opinion in regard to any

particular man, Mr. UoHillin. ! don't know of anything that
Ur. Hay.ner hna done since be

h~Ls

been an active member of

Captain Taylor's oompany and. so far ea I know. s1noe ho has

been on the pay roll of the State. that morits any crit1o1sm et
all, to my knowledge.
G

You would not care to testify as to hia garteral raput-

ation before he came on the pay roll?
A

Well. his general reputation in the oounties where I

kne·1 him 1s oweine to who you tnlk to. ! w111 say this:

I do

not desire to ahirk anowering any question that ought to bo

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

...

 l.00

answered or. t-.'1 thhold

an.3

information that ought to be g1ven

the corn.mi ttee but ! know !.tr. Haymer in Kimball County first;

1 t ,-.·as a B.Ount1 that Tras ovsrrun \,,1th goat thieites-- that
seemed to bo the prevailing custom of tho thieves out there,
to steal goats, and the danger r.as so

g~eat

and they were

loe1ng so mnoh atook thst Ur. Haymer was employed b,y tho looel

citizens there and paid e salary, I understand, to assist in
trying to

disco~er

snd ' aecerta1n tho namos of men who were

guilty of that partieular offense.

There was a great deal cf

goat stea1ine eoing on,--! know that by reason of the investigation in tho grand jury, of which I was district attorney.
~here ~ere

a ereat many undesirable citizens in thet county

et that time,--at thet time--they have perhaps reformed now-and there r.ere a great many good citizens of the oount7 who

believed that some of the methods that were used to?.arda suspects were· too hnreh.

There was one element in that country

who 'believed Ur. Hnymor was a first olass man and a first
class offioer end there was enother element, and they were
not all bad men. there were a great many good men who believed that he was entirely too harsh and too harsh as an
offioer in the o1soharse of his out1es.

I think that would be

a fnir statement of the situation of the perty in that county.

At other plsoea I have--- I know

o~

no oomplaint---I have heard

of no complaint, at least against Ur. Haymer in any other

oount3 e:x-o.ept in that section out there.
Q

The general complaint, ea I understand from you. is

that as an officer or en omployee of them. I don't know whi¢b
you would oall him. he v:ae rather hsrah in his methods of

dealing wtth sust>eots?
A

I have beard that stated, yea, e1r.

Q

That was the main anuse of oompla1nt?

A

Yea, and rigbt on that point, ea a

S'Od many 21oars

stan~ill6

~roseoutor

of a

and as of a deputy sheriff of a little

atR:nd!ng, I have no pationoe with any man who in me1ting an

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 arroet will unnecesasrily use a eisshooter or find it neo.
.
essery to use vile epithet~ toward the man that he is arrestOf course. if a person is resisting

ing.

~rrest

that is a

d1iforent proposition but any off.ioer who io prone to pull

his sixohooter and use vile or>ithets toward the who :is about
to be hie

pr1aon~r.

and bent him

OV<)r

the head or threaten

to. even if he does not. that ls conduct unbecoming an offioor

EXAMIN1'~'D

Q

BY SEUATOR WILLIFORD:

Could you offer eny suggestion for the

b~tterment

of

the Rangers?
I think the Adjutant General ousht to get all the

A

1n~ormation

possible an to the type of men applioable for

the poait1on of itangers and to eelect men whom

be

believes

to be good men end havo the ce:paci ty to make good peeo&
offioers.

It 1s · not every good man who can make a good peeoe

of r icer and if they get on the force I think he ought to
keop in oonstent touoh with them nnd !:f he finds an:T -:nan is

guilty of •onduot unbecoming a gentl9oan he ought to be fired.
Q

What would be a !air salary, in your

A

Well. I don't know.

~udgment?

I should sa1 that tho

·

e~lary

of

privates ought to be not lean then seventy-five dollars a
month.

I believe that if tho salary of the private

K~Dgera

was made seventy-five dollars a month it would be very
attractive to a
to tlmo,

8S

gr~at

many good

m~n.

and increase it frOl!l time

they hftVo ""4'4 stayed in the eervtoe many, many

,earo; in other words. have

oorpor~la

and sergeants. they oan

do that. and when one hae become ver1 prof!o1ent and has a
long and

honorabl~

serv1oe, that he might get a little more

money than one Who atsrts in at the bottom.

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 Q

In consideration of what Rnnger service costs i n relif~

ga11d to protect!rlB

i t1 on to the State. you

A

and 'Pro-port;. in 1 t

~

112:ving 'Propoa-

think?

Yee. I thinl< leevtne; out the

-prot~otion

of life along

the border and limiting it solely to the V8lue of property
in dollars and oente that they protect from the deprodettona
of thiavea. that the anount of proporty ·t hat they protoct
and koep trom being stolen exceeds many. many times the oost
of the Ra.near service,flo matter how much it has St>Ont, v1hcn
thoy baa. the largest number in the service.

·(

On

a~aonnt

of your intimate connection with the Ranger

eerv1oe the oomm! ttee v.·ould 11ko to know your opinion about
tho bonc.11ng feature of. the Hanger force:

What do you 'believo

about the praatioal features of thst?
A

lily judgr.ient is, you mleht ns well repcf.11 tho law

-providing -for the

~arie;or

servi.co a.a to adopt that feeturos of

the Canales' bill.

Q

You think it fa impractical?

A

Yea,- ! think 1t is impreatioal.

~ere

aro a great

many other c on.'!'lties e<.,ay :r.rorn tho border. anc aomet ii:lee an

unfortunnto

~olit1cal

situation exist s , and those situations

are not confined to the 1o·r.er

~io

Gr unde. They erlet in our

interiol'" cou.nties, sornetlmes f.ighto

tho

Bh<ir~:!"f

arie~

in wh!ch one s1de,

is a good man, wa will say, and one

.st 4e has· no

confidence !ri the sheriff,- they believe tho sheriff
• ..l · ,\\.

to aeskasinate one

or their

{$

trying·

bunch,- when a oase of that sort

ar1 sos aotno o! the nanger.os come in there anc! they aiae ordi nar117
acoepted by both n14ee,i~ they don ' t use too harBh mothods. Bn

being the oonscrvatore o! the peace and are respeeted by both
sides enu n greet de3l of good is dono.

In the oount1 of

San Saba, with tha facts of wh1oh I am tamt11ar. a good many

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 years ago thet had a mob eonatt1on in that

countr~

in which

more than twonty men wero aassssinnted in eighteen months.
I do not boltevc that oonaition evor would have been settled
exoept :for tho Uangera in thot eount1•y. for fourteen

that was broken

u~.

aftar aooaas tnntione

h~d

~are

after

ceased ! was

diatr1ot attorney an« I don't know of any more law abiding
county in Texas to-da1 then San Saba County, and I bel1Gve the
more thoughtfnl people of that county now, and praetically all
o~

them are unanimous in thet opinion thct it was duo to the

Rangers that that unhappy aond1t1on wns relieved.

CHAIP.MAN BLEDSOE:

~

You think the

aa~

for having a bad

mon on the Rangor force has passed?
A

Yea, sir.

I don't think there ever. wns an necesait7

for them ln the ttrst place and if. there ever was it

o~rtsinly

dooe not exist at this timo.
Q

And if si1ch a man le on the :force now wbo maintoins hte

-position by reason of his roputation ac e bad man or killer
or anuthing liko that. it is time

t~

get r16

or

h1~?

A

I think so.

Q

1'ou thin'k tho Y1holo force ,.,·ould be betterea by removing

any auoh mun who may bo on thore?
J,

I think so.

Q

You apoke about th•se men beine sent into th& interior

oountlea; do you th1rlli: they should bo sent 1.nto those oountiee

only on tho request

or

tho oher.f.Yf.. district at1:crne;v or diatrf.o~.

judge?

A

I think thnt is a very good ru.la, and that is, as I

understnnu, the ru.lo now. that ttangero wt 11 not be sent to a

county

e~oept

on the request of such officers as you named,

usu.ally on the request of the sheriff.

I bol1e"Ve the t if the

ehor1f! in any oounty-- 1f the sheriff. district judge and

district attorney all agree that there is no nocessity for
rangers to be sent to a county, that w1th the charP.oter ena

110State Library and Archives Commission
Texas

 type of men thnt we have in thoeo offices that we ea..'1 safely
leave tho Rangers out of tmy oounty where those ol.'f'i cers are
op~osed

to

t~eir

soing in.

It mir,ht be that s week man,

not neceasar1ly e bad man. but a weak man mteht be in the
shor-1f:t~' s o~fic a.

shor1ff snd

bu.t it wonl d herdl y ba pro bab lo that the

~ustriot

ettorney and di atriot jn.dhe woulei all

three be bad men or so

weu~r

o.a to agree to sot..'lt' pronos1 ti on

of that nort to keol) tho Range.re out when they ehon1d go.
Q

Don t t you th ink that 1n a county of that kind where

tho Rang0rn arc nont in and

the~

make an arrest that they

should not unc1erts.ke to handle the law independently of all

local officera but should

juage
1'.

re~ort

to tho ahorif! or distriot

irm.~cdistoly?

!

th1.n1r as soon ea an:; m~n 1s ar.raated in any county

for an offense coMmitted in that

count~

ho oucrht to be immed-

ietcly taken to tha county judgo .at the county seat where
there is always a mns!etrate. ·t o be htmdle d end diar1osed of bJ

the local
Q

authoriti~a.

Do you think that the Ranger force should have a right

to go into a jail nnd conduct a privato investigation, using
e threat o'f hnne!.ng or irnmeuiute execution, or tv.rning the

man over to a mob. to obtain a sta1• oment from him?

A

If tho1 did not intond to do that, tf they aro just

oamoui'l.a3e1ng.

~ar.sona1ly

I don't know that there is any

speo1s1 in.jury done to him;

howevor. It'ion't think that he

n'l1ght to bo inau.ltod or abuaea or anything
a-ottrs-&. in gott1ne oonfes.il10tts .from

01~

that sort. Of

orim1nels, you oannot

alwa:rs juet track a lino ond tell the alleged oriminal the

whole truth because eomettmos 7ou have

tt

make him believe that

you know a great deal more than you do know or make htm bo11eve
you know soroeth1ng when often you don• t know anyth1xag at all.

11t
Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 EXAliI1IB'D BY SEf;.L\ TOR :·trJ,!li,•£.D:

Can you get a conviction U-om ~ eonfesa1on obtained

Q

that way?

A

Mo, we hsve a oontcssion law 1n thia State that ts

found 1n no other State in the Unton. thst absolutely prohibits

the introduction o:r.

uny

coni'oas1on at alt rlada wh1le under

arreat.
Wasn't it juat anoh <t>nduot as that that is oomplained

Q

of that brought that a.bout?

A

I don't know.

Q

Wasn't you District Attorney at the tiMo it ~as done?

A

Yes.

I will say that it was

by

reason

o~

the testimony

of officers in some portions of the State to Whom it ~as
oleimed that the prtsonars always 0011feesed that brought

about the enaotmGnt of this statute, or at leaet. that was
ola imoa st the time o:r 1ta enu.otroon t.

Q

You would not----

A

I

will ear th1s.- I do not think any aontession ought

ever to be used unloss it olosrly shows that it was freely and
voluntarily mane.
Q
Say that the Rangara go into the jail et night where a
man ta. he ia there a priaonor, ha is amenable to the laws ot
the State, and they ·u:ndertako by threats of

ta~ing

his life, even

go1ne to the o:'{tent of putting a rope arour1d his ncclt and

pulling him up a wal1. of t'he jail ana making h!m believe he ie
about to be hsngoa !n order to :me1re hi:n con'i(!ea. do 1ou think

a man guilty of t'1ose things ought to be retained t'ln the force?
or~toer,

A

Well, ! would not do that if ! was a peace

Q

If you were in ohergo of a foroe would you p~t'm1t it

from :rour r.ion?
A

No, ! would not permit my men to do that if I had
,

charge

o~

them as a poace officer.

Texas11~
State Library and Archives Commission

 Don't you thin1' it 1s a mist~?ke to mit Rar.gers 1nto any

Q

county -v1here the sher!.i'i', d1str1ot judge anCI d.i std.ct attornesr

all are onposed to their romaininB thor.e·r

A

As a general propoait1on ! r.outd say 1oe, th.et would

be a mistake to take them to any such ootUt.ty.
th~

more densely

popu~ated

Q

Espocially

eoct!on?

A

Unless there •~as somo reason to ma'li::e an exaeptt on to

the rule---tn othor ~ords. ~ome exce~tional--substantial facts
that showed that the dtstriot juage or tho district attorney
ana the sheriff wore not thomnelvee acting
Q

eE

good citizens.

I w111 not ask you for your op1nton on any man but who

is Robi.nson. i !

know?

:1011

~sssett.

A

2:!r. Robinson is ranoh mnnagor for Julian

Q

Is he on tho force, aa fer as you lmow. either as a

rogulnr or

s~ecial

rangar?

A

t. don't

Q

!c he 1n any cease onmloyed by or under the d1root1on

~now.

of the Texas Cattle Raisers' Aoeoc1ot1on?
A

!To, S1?".

Q

He ie no longer v.·t th 1;hem?

A

ltO, he ?'eniened to ecaapt the post ti on Tilth J'ulie.n Bas-

sett aa ranch manager. llr. Baaaett has lmown ht~ for some
twenty yeat'.a.
Q

Is this roan Sands •:orking

or the nettle lioisars •

Aaooc1ation in an1 wa~?
A
no, tl!."ld no'V'er hae. ea :r.er aa ! knoV'.
Q

Have 1ou or

c~u1d

9ou aecur.o !or us a list of the

omployeea of the Texas Cattle Ha!aore .Aaeociat!on

~o a~o

opoolal rangers?
A

Yes, I will be •err glett whon I go to Fort worth to

furnish you the1r names and ndareseee, !!'her are scattered

throughout the northwest, 1'oat, southwest and southeast Texns.
Q

So far as you 'know they ere all high clasG lew-ab1d1ng

1 .~ Statemen?
Texas
Library and Archives Commission

 A

Yes, they are be11oved to be such end r believe them

to be euoh

an~

r Will say further that I have heard of no

complaint being made ageinat eny of those men b~ reason of any

mleconduct on their part ae ofrioera.
Q

no you think an unperdonoa oonvict. a men 11vho bail been

oonv1oted of e felony and served his time in tho penitentiary

nnd ie unpardoned should be put on the force as a ranger?
A

I wonld not do 1t if I wan Adjutant

~eneral

beoauoe

t~

he te worthy to 50 on the i'oroe he would be worthy to receive ·
a -pardon.
Q

t o you think any man who is under oonviction of a

felony and hie ease ie ponding on appeal before the court of
appeals should be permitted to serve on the Ranger force?

A

No. I think that is contrary to good

during the pandonoy of the
EXl\MIICD DY S~~NATO:t

sound

publto policy

a~neal.

r::n, rJ!FORD:

Q

Yon a:t.e in court a good doal ·~

A

'!en • sir.

Q

And

.A

Yea, sir.

Q

What is trteir

A

! have hsd ooession to use them as witnceses as dis-

see the Hanc-F>l9S tn court a gooa deal as wi tnessca?
ste~ding

bof¢re courts nnd juries?

trict attorney and as aRsietunt district attorney 1n prosecut-

ing cases s number of times in tho laat several 10ars and I
res~ect

beve not 'know o! one that did not oor:miand the

people in the county ~hors tllo Gaae vras being trted.

of the
!\ow. of

course. a suggeetion made to ilr· tiaymer while ago,-- he was
not what ,you might term an active .ttaneer. Ur. lia:mo1" with a
great many

am

~oople

p~epared

in Kimball county was very

unpo~ular

and I

to say that a greet many of those men who did not

like Haymer are as good

citi~ons

ae I am. but

r.it~

that

exee~t­

ion • the Rangers that ! have used were men who maf.e a good
1mproee1on before the people.

Texas
114State Library and Archives Commission
-,...,,---

=

 Q

Had good standing bofol"e the jury?

A

Yes.- in other words I thought their standing was

aufrioient to ~ut thom on the stand, being will1ng to tlsk
their testtmony and th<t effect it would have.
F.XA!illl~~D .BY

.ruage

Q

!x:R. OAliALis:

~.1osoa. you. hsvo been tUstriot attorney for a

number of years?
.h

Q

"'!ea , air.
And no~ arc e, prnetically a sort o~ assistant district

attorno7 in the prosecution of theft canes, as a rop~esontattve

of the Cattle Raisero' Aosootatton?
Well , I assist tn tho prosabution of cases Vihore tbe
A
local a1atrict ettorney rcqtto~ta me to ooroe in.

_,..

<:!

Do you kno11; o:f any bed t?fficera?

A

You mean loeal o:r:r1cere?

q

Yee:

A

We'll, ! don't know. I find eot:1e once in a while

or othcrwtae?

that I imagine 1t ~as ~robnblJ a mistsko when they wero eleoted
to tho o!!ice .- don't hsve a turn f.or it.

To say I ~,.now any

eol'.'ru.pt officers. I could not en¥ I know any right now. Of
course 1 t is not ovory goo6 mt~11 "lhO will make a gooa peace
officer.
Q Every peaoo of~1oer you heve come into contact wtth

is c. good t.'lan?
A

no, ! would not say all of them.

Q

J,a:rtne ssil!e the onptuina.

beceu.Be aa e

general rule

it 1s almost a universale rule to select very good men f.o~
a (}aptain of the ~;tate J:tangors.- coming do?:n to privates. if
1ou were Aojutent General today would you reta1n all the

Rangers you have mot now.- you have met tn the last ,ear or
two,- all those good ~angers you aey you have met in the last
1"'er or so·?

Texas
State Library and Archives Commission
11tJ

 •

A

I saw a great bunch of them at P.earsnll and .KarnGs Gi ty

in the last

t~o

or three monthfl; thoy were members of Captain

Wright• s company., Captain Ryan' a and Car;ta!n Willis '

company~

I would say unhos!tetingly that ! would retain ovory one of
those beys ..
Q

I

0J:1

airn:ply asking you. tllio proposi.tion:

You have

como in contack with practically ell of them. nll you have
cO''.'lo in aontaat ":i'l th in the lant year or so, "r.Ould yo11 rota1n

them, whethor they bolone to Captain nrieht'a company or to nny
other company. would you retain them in the aorvlce?

A

! don't ltnO\'l ":'ihothor I woul6 or not.

There is some of

them ! tRblk have only mot oaauall1, the only ones I have met
in tho d1scherge of their duties,

atno~

I have been with the

Cattle «a!sors• Aeeocintion. hnva

b~en . aown

1n that portion

of the country, in the Southern portion of tho

and I know

~tate.

of no renson -imy anv or. those man ought to be diachsrgod nor d.1d

r hear of any oompleint of any o:t• those men.
Q

!n other words, yon are w1.ll1ng to state here that all

the hangers that are
.ti.

T

aon' t know:

eervloe I do not
Q

no~

in the servlao are gooa

~ho re

kno~.

~angcro?

nre a great msn;v Rangers tn tho

ana have not hnd 3n opportunity to meet.

lint ell tho ""angers yon do know "'ho nre io"' in the

:i::.1u· 0 era a?.9e good ilangGrs?

A

Yas, thoee whom I have soon 1n th0 d1 scharge

dutiea aa

l~angors

in tho laat two or

opportunity to judgo

o~ the~

years and had an

in tho discharge of their duties

are oon whom I have no erittoism to
Q

~hreo

o~ tho1r

m~ko

of aa peace of!ie&ra.

You say the men \r()u have seen in the diache.rge

o~

their

dutles, we want eYeryth1ng upon the statement of those 7ou
know. whethor those you have seen

or

in the discharge of their

duties, do 7ou eay all you know no~· should be retained as Rengers?

A

You mean good

~angers

and good mon?

11l>
Texas
State Library and Archives Commission

 A

Good Ral:lgers and good men?

A

I oould not Jm1ge r1hothor a man wao good Ranger unleos

I was in the aountr' where ho was porform!nr, h1A out1 or had
eome porsonal knowiouge of the mannor in

he diaehsrged hie

~bioh

If ! was Captain of a J."ango1· oornpen:r 1! might ~oh pret'er

dut,-.

to have men whor.1 I knew bettor than to have some man T1ho was a
stral'lgor to rue. ! SUTJpOso that ovory mon who tek~o cha~go of a

Ranger company mskoa soma changes but I woula not say that
tho man whom the Capta1.n leta out to roako way for a r.isn he :rtnowa
betto1·. is a

w~rse

man tbau the ono taken 1n.

Q

You. know Captain Fox?

A

I

casually

'knew
Vlhon

Captain Pox

~hen

ha

~as

he uas aonstoblc hare.

Captain Fox al though I

kn~-;

r

at Austin. T knew him

wao never intima.te with

him to sj)esk to hi.m and he knows

me to S})oak to mo but during the time he was constable here I

know him <Uld in a genarnl 'r.?ey what his rcplttation we:s and so
far as I know or heard during tho time that ho was sn officer

in Travis Cou..vity I think he

v:8t: gano:r.a111

rep;ard as a good

officer. trow horv he (Uncharged hts <htt,- as a ca-pta1n of the

Ranger £oroe

~

don't know for r. have not much

occasi~n

to be

ont 1:1 that Bie :Send country where he onerated.
Q

You etatea that tho ponding log1slat1on

Legislature in

~eg~ra

to tho Ranger force will

bo~ore

the

d~Rt~oy

the

e:f:fioienc:;r , - will you plonne apeci'!y and say 111 whet way

the

legislation you retor to?
A

tho

The legislation to which I ref.er 1a what is known 1n

new~nt?pers

bill,

a.s tho bill 1ntrodnced by yQu, the Canales '

thst 1s the bill to whi.dh ! ref.er. and it i.a my opinion

that to put those men under bond and nut them in the same
cntogory ne loonl

~oaoe

officers. that you

~~uld

might as well

repeal the lai{' • because the effect of that w()'llcl be to 1'!18ke

moral oowards of them, of a lot o! them, and
.
t

the~

would hsve to

bo ao doubly oautious in the discharge of thoir dut1os ae that

Texas
State
andof Archives
Commission
the Library
neoese1ty
hsvt:ng the
force would no longer exist.
1

 Q

!n other vrords, putting your sheriffs and oonstablee

U.'1dor b onCI makes them

Q

co~ards?

!n other norcls,

deputy marchal

'Ptt~tine

every

e..~d

A

mor~l

o~

the

coward.a an<l 1ne:f'f1o1ent?

I made no au.ch statement as that, nor do ! understand
~oquir&s

tbe t tho lm':'
Q

pooce officer outside

oth~r

Rangers under bond makes them

a Un1tod States !:'..arshnl and

aeputy sheriffa to give bond.

Deputy sheriffs

ar~ a~pointcd by

re~nonai ble

sheriff's bond a.rt)

the

sh~riff

end the

tor their actt on?

A

Thero ie a gront deal of differonoe----

Q

Answer that question 1e$ or no?

lffi.

T!D~~r,rJ:

think that 1s l>Urel:r a question of lew.

T

Mr. Canaloa • .·

It in true, but a!.noe we heve e laeyor here

UR .. C.UM.,.,ES:

and ho 1A eivtng an

r

about that lnw.
juag~ont . as

o~1nton

we want to know how t!IUOb he knows

asked e i'eir, very :fair queatl.on. He passes

to norno ponding mctter

of.

legislation.

h~

says,

and ! mn asking about thooe msttera,- ! em aek1ng the gentlemen-. THE CUAIP1.:An:

I th ink the t

1~

a mat te:r that woultl come

before the oot!r.'.11ttoe st another t1me.
MH. C.AtA!J:S:
bill~

Cenales'

of

omcrgnno~

Q

Herc the tenturos,

you soe,

~rov1ces t~~t

seot1on one of the

the Governor in 4aaes

may appoint as many RangorA as ho wishes.- Are

you in fuvor of t/'.a t ott against that :f'oeture?

A

I

thin~

thet is n pOYJer thnt can very well be vostea

i:n the Covnrnor and Ad jutnnt Gem oral.

Q

Is it a good

.A.

Ye~!,

Q

The seoond section

t~ing

or not?

I think 1 t is.
6~

that paragraph requires that

the men should be of gooa moral aharP.oter and men that understand the requ1r <'me?Sts . that stand for the enforcement of the
law and have s reputation as law abiding citizens, that they

should be o1t1zol9.8 of tho United States, should be over twonty-

11 GState
fiveLibrary
years of
ageArchives
and should
have had some experience as peace
Texas
and
Commission

 .

offiaera:

Do you think that a good provision?

A

! think the;r are all good ·prov-lsions. l.1r. Canales.

Q

Tho thir<'l paragraph provides i'or the payment of

to privates seventy-five dollars. to sergeants one hundred
dollars sw.:i. to a Gaptain ono

hundre~

e.nd fifty dollars end

-provides twon·ty-eight dollars more for horse feed. whioh is

an 1nureaoe of

~sy

over the present pay today; is that fcoture

bad?

A

I think !

anm~ored

in response to questions eeked b!' the

ohairman th2t I believed tho pay ought to be increased. I
boliave ! sugBcsted

th~t

the leust pay ahould be seventy-five

e.olla'ta a month. As to exactly how it should be scalea above

that I don't know
Q

b~t porha~a

your ouggest is e good one.

The fourth feature is when they arrest a person thc7

should not m1stront a percon and should give trie party arrested
tho snl!le treatment as is required · of' other peaoc off1oors and
that . it they aro arrested for a bailable of:fonse fue:v should be

permitted to give bail: are you against that proposition?
A

No. certainly not.

<t

Why do you sa.y it will cripple the service t•hon you

accopt the four '!!lBin fea:trw.·es o:r that bill, with the exception

of the bond feature?
A
good,

..\sauming that. agreeing thnt all those pro"1isions ere
they ere no more than what I would aay tbu t l.he Adjutant

Genoral ought to roquiro o:f tho Ranger :E'oroo eny way.

Q

I thought so.

Why 1a it then that the Adjutant General

baa toquosted various 1nd1vlc1uals to me.ke tho statEment that
the Csn.slca• bill will absolutely put tho !\anger servioe out

of question if you approve of.
A

!

th~e

proVis1ons?

have not been in oonsu.ltation wl th the Adjutant General

- -! ha~e not seen tho Adjutant General for two months. He has

made no request of that sort o:f me. I don't know thllt he has
made lt of any one else.

Texas
11 ~jState Library and Archives Commission

 Yo~

Q

say the only objectionable feature is the bond

feature?
A

t know tha. t it in necessary

Oh, I <ion'

·to enact a:tJ."9'

la\'7. I belinvo if I \i~S :\djutunt General, and ! beliove

General Rarloy i~3 able to run the oi':P.ico as vrell as ! could,
I beliovc

c" o~:c

are matters which can safoly be attended to

by him.
Q

When conrplain'ts are n:a de aeair1st irJdividuals who ar0

n ov1 in tho ;-:nneer service for mistren tment, rough treatoent,
ou trage exg and murders that have been conrnitted by them and
they ere not e".rcn (!;~plained, do you belioi1e then that it is a

good course
A

:~or th ~

Adjut2nt Generul to pursue?

I think the Adj':itant Gc11or3l ought to 1 vestigate all

tho Ee charges enc if he finds them to be true

8

man

o~ght

to

be su~pcnde<J, and unleso he finds they are not true, or his

invostigation leads him to believe they are true, - injustice
ahoulcl not be oone the l:~mger b.v snPponf ing him hacause aom~laints

Q

are

~ade .

If complaints are made

011cl

tho Acl,jutant General is

slow or refuses to make this invcl::'tigntion and aleDr out this bad
olomont, don't you think the people of Texas for their own
proto0tion sholild have e law to make him do it. when ho !'e;Cuaes
or ncglocts to do it'?
A

!"ho~c

are tiattern that

bottor. : am not fn:ni15.ar
triaC.c

'7:. th

re.f-o.r0n0 e

ThT. CHP.IRl.:M::

".1i

l.Tt:mer~l

Harley could answer

th any complalnts, if any have been

to them at all.

l:r. Csnalos. I think thet further e-:{amination

atorir, that line '\'.onld be !1nprope r.

-----------------(Witness excused.)

Texas
1~ State Library and Archives Commission

 THE CH.AIPJ&.Alt:

Gentlet.,en, I Wflnt to say to

,-Ott

that as far

th& general conditions ere oonoerne& that exiet along the

as

border. and tho neoessi ty for the <;ontirmance o:f the P.snger

foroe, we heve heerd ell the
It

an~ gentle~an

~itnoases

we

to henr.

~oaire

preeent knows of any fact relatine to the

m1aoonc1uat of a Ranger or !lhorlng hiA di sq\u\liiientton for
ht s position "''e wi 11 be ela<> to hear l1im. .If any apeui fie

ohsrao is made

\Vi th

re i o!•enco to the oona.uot of any Ranger or

any member of thi&"i-3. wt th l"Oi'e:·cnco to a Ay>oc 1 fie tranaaoti Ota

and any gentlornan prosont knows of uny fact or eir.eUl'!lstsnces
tcnc1 ing to establish or to -shoY' the untruthfulnssa of that
charge. \Te will consider it a peraonal favor if you wtll come

to us n11d tell us and you

~ill

be given an opportunity to

testify wt th rei'e:renco to those charges and t".ntters.

far as the general oon«it1ons are oonoernen
rensoneoly well edv1seo.
OCfOrO US al'ltl

'.YO

~think

We Rre glad to have had

But so

we

~ou

a~e

gentlemen

a'}'rpreciate the r>rOmptneaS nnd the Jt!ndneSS

shol'm ln tho µreaentat!on of theso matters ..

At thin time we aro not undertakine to malte u-p our f1ndin~s

at all.

I do not think there will be any question on

the -part of this OOl!Ir.'littee that tho Rnnr,er f orae shall be
oontlnu.ed anc\ i?inteaa or b ei ng
to

hol~

hlil:i'f>(H~ocl

1 t '\':'111 be endeavored

in every way pOS $lble to rendor to the people, and

to B1Ve the border country and the c!.tlzens of that part of the

oountry overy service it ia eble to give.
----------~~~-~-

(A·t this time, · £3.ve o'c,.. 'J ok ?.

::t••

Jen. 31, the

Committee r"oessed unt11 ten o ' olock A. M., :&'eb.

Texas 12
State
t Library and Archives Commission

z.)

 •

Monday. Feb. 3. 1919.--The Joint Committee. inTeatigating

Texas State Ranger force, convened at ten o'clock, A. M.
Present:

Chairman

Sen. Williford; Hon.
THE CHAIRMAN:
MR. CANALES:

w.

w. H. Bledsoe; V1oe Chairman Hall Page:
M. Tidwell and Hon. Dan

s.

Hcll11l1n,

The oommittee will now oome to order.
I desire to present some additional charges.

(Whereupon Mr. Canales read the further continuation of
ohargee, which follow:

Texas
12~State Library and Archives Commission

 Auot1n, Texas,

To t'he ,,.onor"c.\ble i i . 1'. llledtJoe, Chtli man,. and tl\e
?''embers Of tlle Joint 1ttTGBt,qatin~ Conrni ttee Of tl\e

Rouoe and Senate to !nvoetiqatc
State fianqer ?orce.

6.
neat

w.

n,c~bu.n;

the town

or

Aa!ainot the

on or about the 19th

J oha.r~e tl-\llt

ber, 1918,. Riin£te:t"s

C~ar~es

day of

DecGTr~

:r. n. rialle and Jo)m Bloxo!Df Jr. killed

about 9:00

n:u:u~er,

P.. u.

El\-

in his ovm place ot business jn

Texas. under ci roumatanoee whio'h, wider t\\e

la.w, oonatitute mlll'der•

I ol\arqo ti-at this matter was oa.lle4 to

t'te attention of Governor VI. P.

meetjnq ot titizena

~eaded

by

fobby on December 22 by a tnaee•

t~e ~on.

w.

D. Suiter, State Sen.

ator. andthia matter wae referred to the Adjutant

Gene~al

or

t~e

State '6r inveetiqation and that the Adjutant General ma.1 nta:i ned

tl\eee two men in t""e force until January 10 , 1919, four days

tore

t~e Le~iolaturs

Tice.

I

mat, when they were suspended from

char~e t~a.t t~ie m~tter

b~

t~e Se~

wa.e of such notorious ol\a..raoter

and tiie f'aote were so accessibl1&r t}\at t'1e

l~j u.tant

!Jeueral' a

Department could 113ve secured all of the evidence nacesaary to
R:i~eN

ehow trw.t the

wl-to killed rr.

cumata.noee Vlhiolt ma.do tltern ~11 ty

been

suspended f:rom the Servioe

n,

clibur~

did so under o:ll."-

ot rnu:rd.er and they shou1.d l\a.ve

with~n

a week trom t'1e time the

offanoe wae oommttted, but that th1B delay in their suspene!on

was due to

t~e

tact

t'iat

t'1ere

~e,

and 1'\ae been, a disposition in

tlie Adj uta.nt General• e Department to proteot a.nd

ah~ eld

men of

desperate oh&U.'e.Oter !n theLt' unlawful a.ots while :In t'1e Dallqer

force,

!n oonneotion

vit~

th!e

cl\ar~e

! call tho attention of

the comm1 ttee to the letter of Sergeant Sam UoEenzie add,.-essed to
Captain J.

r.

Andres in whic't he ueee tho follclw!ng

la~u~e :

n'n\e boys 1'\ad to kill a fellow last niqht a.t. lb~er,

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 Texas . Tl\ey ra~dod a ~~bli?UJ den and t"'11s mamlade
a ti~l\t and the boye shot him but overyt~iru; quieted
dovm tod.4y. Sunt tal~ed to John Bloxom over t~e pl\one
and ne said evefyt1':i nq was qu1et. Ttie judqe' s ver.di ot wae he resioted arrest.'' ·
! wi ol\ aleo to oall a.ttentf on to the tole~ra.m addreseed to Oov-

emor '<I• P. r.tobby s1~ned by Hon.

w. :o. au1 ter, dated neoembor 22,

1918 1 ol10.ra.oter1z1nq thia 1noident as oold•bloode4 murder and an
aee6st1na.tion.
7.

te1nber, 1918,

Tltose lGtters I mark ttl«ldb1t

0

.r. "

'I c~rge that on or about the· 24tlt
te11~er

aa.y of: Sep.

D. F. Ba.mett, a member of capta1n 3erry

Gray' a Compa~ stationed at Parfa, Tcxa.e • dSd, in a manner \1hic'h

was unjustifiable, altoot a.t two J•exicane, uoundi ~ one, and tha.t ,
~ltho~h

the oiroumetano$s ao ohown CJ"O'J'tl

t~e investi~at!on

made

by the Adjutant General 'e l)epartment conclueively oltou that tlio

lbnqer wae '?t\ilty or aoeault wit~ jntent to oo:mmtt lltU'l'dcr, or
a.t lea.et

a~qravated

assault and batte:ty• tl-\o Adjutant OeneJ.>al ,in

person tnade tl'te follow'! nq st.atement

DO

quoted

fl'Ol\1

his lette:\9

of Ootober 18• 1916:

"I £1ncl that Ea.rnett wae aotinq perhapa ind1ooreetly.
but nevertheless not entirely to blame tor the trans•
aetj on. The matter \11111 b• overlooked t111a tixne prov1ded you advise l'Um to be morecareful in f'uture and
not to be uain~ hie qun too promieoously Wl\en not
necessary. ••
!n the aftidavit made before a notary public by the eaid Barnett.
~e

etateo the

t~nsaotion

to be ao follows:

"On the 24th day of .September. 1918, Nr . w. T. rav1s
and 1 went out in ~20 ptleture to p1ck up some cattle
fol' Mr. ,..avi a; nbout one o' oloo'k tl-tat a fternoon, "'' m
about two mtlee from Mr . Dav1et 1'touse. we satt two
1J'ex1oan'3 ~ ,.,,ho were '1.ora~baok, 1 n Ur. ravis t paut1.ire;
they were about tl\r$e quarters of a mile from where
'"e "1e:t*$. V1e p!olced up a bunoh of ca.tt1o and sta.rtecl
back to t~e ra.noh wit~ them; we m1eeed a portiott of
the cattle and went bac~ jnto a draw to pick them up
and tound t~ese two r e:d cans follow1 ng usf' wl1en we
oame up · on them l '1·. Dav:i e a.steed tl-lein why tneJ> were

folloWil'.ll? tts. Che of them replied: "We 0 are tfl'Q.ili~
eome mares; wliat the l\ell 1o it to yo;~.
l'Jlien tl\e
rexican said this, J'r • Ilavj G rode UP to tl'\e M'e xioan
and hit him with hie p1etol. At that the Mexicano
rode off and ilr • Inv:! a a n d "! a hot tltree or four times

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 eaolt! we were sl\ootS~ in the air ove:r tl1e Uextoano
for 1.lie .purpooe of lkeep1M t':tent from follotfin~ us. 'f
were rtot e,,_ooti~ to ~1it t\.\e l~ex5ca.no. but for t1'te . ~
pose of' t'riq'1t~ni~ tnem s.nd to keep them £rom tollowint; us rurt1\er. n •

!n oonneotion w1t~ this o~~e

!

eubm.it tor the ooneiderat,onof

the Committee all oorr•epondenoe and the inYeet1qat5on ~de by
the Adjutant Gene!'Ql •a Department which !B "1ere ma:rked ".~'11.1b1t

G"•

a.

!

charge thnt on or about October 2, 1918. at the

San Franoiuoo care in San Antonio. Texao, Rl~er
brutally aeuaulted Jolm Them1e, a waiter in

DB!d

w.

13.

Cate, etr1ld~

l'\im in the head w1tl'l a pietol w1 tl'tout any provocation.

to oall the attention

or

l3entley
I wiel\

the Comnittee to the faot that t~e cit1•

zene ~J.O were witneoses in the transaction and who ma.de ota.tementa
ret;a.1-di~ this ocounenoe r$fuaed to a1qn tl'te sta.1,ement beoauee

they vere a.fra~d of be!~ o1mtla-rty treated by said lll.n~er. vm1c1'

cliowo t~e notoriC'UC cha.ractet'
today.

ot nome or tne Rlnstera :ht t"te for<>e

!n tl't1s natter t'he Adjutant C"eneral 1'\ns cli&char~ed tho

lbn~or from the aet"ViOe and, rdnoe tli1a is one 1nnt.anoe in wli1¢h
t~e A~1utant General ltae diool\a.rgec\ a person from the nerv1oe
~or uro~ful action. 1t 5o wort'1y

to.

ot calli?UJ. your attention tliere-

Jn oonnect1on w1t'1 thie aho.r~e ! aubmi t ttie record and co~

reponddenae on t11.1e eutUeot .from tr:ie ·Adjutant General• e file

w"'i o'1

! 111.'l.l'k ":SXhib 1 t H" •

9.

l o'l'tar~e t~1:1t CCf.-ptaj n

w.

1!.

1

tanean, w'1.o 1e and. '1.ae

been tlie inveatiqat!n~ off,cer or ti-,e Ad.1utant G•n ~al. !e un.
:t~t for au.id off"ioe beQa.uee he oonducts moet, f,f not all., or
tl\e im'eEJtigationa a.ga.5 not R.ln~ero with the ~dea of' juati:fy~nt?

the uctiona ot t'ie na.~ers 1?1 oomm1ttin~ the of~nee cha.~ed.

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 ! fur~11.e~ O~l\lG t•1nt 'tl 1mcme

ot hie own lcnowledt?Et

th.'lt

there

aro nor/ :l n tl\e senioe persona of deupera te o1't.araotel- and that
in rormar 1nveetiJt9.tiona made by ltim they ~e been ohovm to
be 17;uil ty of murder and tl\11.t. n<>tw:i thotandi~ tl'\i s fa.et, l\e pe~

m1 t~ ou.cl\ persona to remain in tho £erv3 oe and wh1 t~ol\eo them

in

t~e 1nveeti~ations

that he

conduct~

ospeoially call attention to the

made by myse1r, beirut
witl~

c',,~es

t~e Depat~~Gnt.

for

1nvoeti~atiol13

uo.'o 3,4, and 5.

of the

l

ol-ta~ea

!n connection

tl11s charge :r w1s'h to call the attention or ti-te Conmltte

to the faot tl-at said Co.pt.a.in
1nv~sti~t1on,

'l!anso~,

.v.i:lkes up lti& mind t11.nt

before he starts upon an
t~e

party to be 'nYeett-

ptQJ'd by lt1m 1s not ~ilty or the offense charged and ! reter to

l\ia letter addrassed to James A, tta.rley. >..djuta.nt General. Cot-

obo::r 15• 1918, from whioh ! quote ae f'ollow&:-0Aa soon a.c ! can P'ot a,vay fx•om ltere :r will continue
my- invaeti~tion w1 tn ref~renoe to ·t"1.e mistreo.tlnent
or l"e»i.Cla.n cit3zena at nonM. TexaB• aa v1ell ae t~e
killinq or J,:l zandro MU!lo~ by 3qt. Edds, abov~ ni o
Grande C~ty ecmettme a.~o. r '1o.d a lOnt£ talk yeete~

day uit~ our mutal friend Repreoentative Cana.lGa,
and '! -f'nd t~at 'ho 1o rather bitter, and seems a little bit unroaoonable, ae usual, a.nd tnat he ao well as
all other Mex:icano believe the J"exioans e'hould b.ot
be ~illed re~rdleso of t~e raotu of ~ustifioation in
tl-\e oase. I AM FCU T!V~ FROM W"lA'1' CAPTA!N "'!MG~
T ; ti3 i~ T!tAT SGT• EDDS VIAS PEffi"ECTLY JUST!FIABt:fil.

"""'"'....,.....i:? '.Ft'.'NK !'.!' ilECESSAll'l 'l'O ~'Om'! FY YCUR DEP/Jtl'lil!!UT
nr S'iJC:tfil FACTS FOO!} DOT'{ S'.\'D;;.o OF T'tE Q.U.ES'l'!O!l I
ii!LL DO T1U s AS SOON A5 j C/J.11 G 'fl' t!ATTERO SW.Pm UP
Ti.ERE YN A SAT!G!f'ACTO::r! l"ANNBB.,.

10. l cnarqe that the Adjuta.11t neneral lll.io been ueSn4
tlte p1•esent l~?lt'}Gr force fol" the purpose of tJ~oW1 ne: opeoial ~av-

oro to hie political

totra.tion.
ot&.nd~ ng.

f~iondo

£nd politioal

"pets~

ot the adm1n-

! further ol\a.3.~e ·ihat this '1aa been a custom of' long

but 'liae been nuirkedly abused by tl\e present inownbent

ot the offj.oe and

'! ui ab to ca.ll attention eopG<.liG.14' to one

amo11"' ot\\ers tl'lllt can be proven, to ,71 t:

In M9' di st~iot larl)e

numbers of Rl.nqers are etatSoned and 1':\a.ve been kept and me.int

12u State Library and Archives Commission
Texas

 tained at tlie · State• c o,.;penae on the :ranches of what :1 e knovm

ao the

K1n~•n ~nch

wl\ich cona1ota

or

over 2, 000 , 000 aores and

of.' which ttie l!on. Ceasar lQ.ebeJ';' :le 'fenoral ma.na1;er. · the enme
~eon.:' l~obBq
~ecut:f ve

who ia

·member ot

no\1 a

~'is

Oomni ttee and Wl'to

to requlatc

t~e ~resont

been

t\.ie D$nO<Ura.tl.<t

aot~ve

RE&no;er JoroG was

Gtate

eve» •dnce cy bill

~nt:roduoe4 lohby1n~

a'!ajnet t11~>.t bill and see1dn1J to tntluenoe members ot t.he 'fouoe

to vote

a~:tnst

~enohmen

it and

110.0

brouc;ltt a number of 1\Se politice.l

to act as lobbyiete

aa1d bill.

a~a1nut

The said cea-

oar f.leberg, "'! ohar~e, 1B one of t".ieee voli t1cal "petstt of the

a.dmin,stration and.

his

th~h

~nt'luence,

be qete undu$ and un-

neoeeaary protection from the Adjutant Gene1-a1 who details a
nUlftber of Jan(Jera at the m:pe11se of the State on tl\~ K1n&; ;ro.n-

0'1.es. eopea1al1y 1n Wfllaoy Couttt.y wl\ere

people
I

l1v1n~

n~e~e

their

exctept

t~eir

are lta.:rdly acy

o'm employees and they uee

tor the pur;pooe ot d•privin« the people or

ri~hte und~r

turen of more than
e.q~reva.t.ed ~ n

the law to hunt in lartte

5.ooo

aoree.

t~$se

exero1o1n~

~nolosures

or pao-

And these polit1cnl favor$ are

v1 evt of' the tact. ttiat the eame protection 'has 'hem

requested by otlter le.me cattlemen 1.n
~een

the~

th~

otate and

tlt~y

l\llve

denied t1'\e eame proteot1on. cli!etly because the:r did not

"'8.ppe~

to he pol!t,oians.

!n

des1re to call as •!tneeees

oonn$Ot~on

~on.

A.

n.

1t~

Ro~ero,

this

cha~e !

of f>an Atlton1o,

TexA.e. and on~ Maplt l-orenz who lives '" l .ive CB.k County. 1'exr..o.
1 i'lirt'her

re$e~e

tt,e r:litht to tile

ad~Ht1ona1 o~uu.·~es .

Respectfuty im.b>N tted,

R8pres!~t!t1e:~:- rit~ ·n~titr1at. · ··
:&"'!led

~1eb.

l , 1919.

investi~at~n~

:/alter

Texas State

Pr~demore

seo' y , Joint Oomt1i ttee

Rin~~ra .

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 Auottn, Texas.
r.tebruar.y 1. lSl.9.

To

t~e

Adjutant General of tho

state ot Tda.e.
You are beraby not1f1ed
Legielative

and

requeBted to present to

!nveatiqatin~ Co~mittef. 1nveetiqat1~

au,,ai net the nanqer force,

t~e

toll owing pa.pc rs now

c1'\a~es

the
~n

t~

you1• poeaee"9

ion:
The reeo:t'fi or t'he 1nvcstiq-a.t1on or tl\e 1dll1~

l.

of

1.i2&ml1"0

?!unoz by Sergeant J.

.r.

l';d.de on or about Ccto'ber 6,

1918,· contu;n.: rq t.'he aff'!dav1te of caid F.ddc nnd other !Bncg:o1•e

taken l1efore

n.

Oostervene, '.Mota.ry public.i or. Starr County. Tex...

ao, ancl \1l\jol\ trtJ.tter is mentioned 1n trw t'hied char~•• oopy Qt
wlt1o~ ~~o

beon se~ed on you.
2. t.!'he record or 31\Y tJorr$opondence ,71 t'1 your Dep:trt-

mant 'rl tlit refiu:anaa to t'he th~eate trw.de upor.i me by r~~er Frank

tta.mcr,
and two

oonciat~ng
l$tte~

or a letter addressed by me to

r~•ernor ~obby

addressed to you.

'1':110 record of t"1c :1 nvestigation made by your De-

3.

pa.rtmont 't.fi th reference to tl'\e dioclla.ri;te of Ca.pta.:fn J.

:r.

lii:IX

and lt:fo n?cn for 'kill'~ p:-~noners while !n t'he'r cust.o<iy.
The r()Oord of' tho irwest:t~ation m':lde by your 1>~

4.

pe.rtment with reteronoe to tlle killin~ of Ernest 'It. !Uc'hburs
a.t Tb.nqe~, T~s. by P.n.ntters J •

on or about

nooembe~ 19~

n.

Nalle and .Toh.n Dlc:xotn.* J:r.. 1

1910 •

Very trtll;r youm,

, , , . . .r., T.

Qa.nal~Qt
• - • •.. .• -:.
from 77t~ D!atriot.

Represent.a.t~vo

~"he

. ...

above not,ce on.me to my 1'\3.nde on this the r1:rst

day of ..,eb:tua 'l:'J a.nd VJQ.G by me

sarvcd on Col. Cope in

Texas
12 State Library and Archives Commission

t~e

Ad.•

 jutant Genel'Q.l•s· Office on t~e let day ot ~eb:rtJ.ary at 11 O'
oloo'k A. lt.
... • :1'.Q!'m. ~·--~l),glJ.
• Se•·~ea.nt-a.t-A:r.me. '!ouse
I

I

I

1

ot

Repr~

f -

eentat:t.ves•

..

12. State Library and Archives Commission
Texas

·- - - -

 CHAIRMAN BLEDSOE:
~resents

charges

Gentlemen. the last prov1e2.on o~ these

a question that we may as well determine now.

I am w1111ng to spend any t1me that may be necosser1 to go to

the bottom of the charges that

mar

be ma~e but I do think that

under the original resolution and the ortg1nal aot1on of th1e

oor.u:nittee thet there ehou1a be some t1me 11m1t within which
the oharges should be filed.
We gave

ur.

Canales until this morning. As

~er

as I am

concerned. we will consider the matter ea oloeed in filing his
charges trom his seotton of the State.
from

d~

If we keep thla up

to day we never oan see the ena of it.

UR. 0.1\NAT,ES:

statement?

\1111 the Chairman permit ma to make thie

I wish to call your attention. Gentlemen of the

oommitteo, on Februar1 first I made this request of the Adjutant General.--- I

~ow

the records are in thero. gontlomen.

and ! know the records have been thore beoauee I eaw them

myeolf and I em willing to go on the stand and ewear I saw
those particular original records..
e~d

requested to present to the

"You are hereby notified

~ogielative In•est1g~ting

Com-

mittee. investigating the ohargee er,elnst the Ranger force, the
following papers now in 10ur possession:

t. The record o:r the

investigation o~ the killing of L1zandro MUnoz by Sergeant J.

J. Edde on or about October 5 1
of said

~dds

and other

~angers

~918,

oontetning the a!f.1dav1ts

taken before R. OosterTene,

notary public of Starr County. Texas, and wh1oh matter le

mentioned in my third oharge, oopy of whtoh hss beon served on
you. "

I am willing to be put under oath and say I aotuell1

saw the affidavit of Sergeant

othor

lt~ms ora

~dds

and the affidavit of . tho

and th$ affi dsvl ts of two Mex1oane in tho re. I

want that in order to complete my record.
CHA!R~t11i BLB"!)SOE:

roee that

!'elate to the charges alread1

made?

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 MR. CANALES:

Already t!lade, 7f)s. sir.

T"rlE CHAIR!t.AH:

The qtiestlon of time to be consumed for

filing

ohargo~-

im. CANALES:

"The records of my oorreapondonoe wlth your

department with referenoo to the ''reate made

u~on

me by Ranger

Frank Hamer, consisting of a letter addressed by me to Oovernor
Hobby und two letters addressed to you.
tThlrd:

1

The rooord of the 1nvestigat1on made by your

Department w1th reference to tho d1echarge of Captain J. J.
Fox and bis men for killing prtsonere while ln their custody.
"Fourth:

~e

record o'f tho 1nveat1get1on made by your

department w!th referenoo to the killing of
burg at Hanger.

~e~as,

by

~angers

~rnest

w.

Htoh-

J. B. Nelle and John

Bloxom. Jr •• on or about December 19. 1918."
And on February 3rd I requested the Adjutant General to

produoe the record of the 1nvoet1get1on mode

by

Ca~tein

w.

ll.

Hanson of the shoot112g of a Mexican by the name of Garcia and
another Mexican whose name is unknown to me at Donne.

"Tho record of the 1nvest1Bation

mado

by Ca'J)tain

~exas.

w. u. Hanson

of the :i'loggtng of a Mexican by tho name of Hernandez on SUS•
p1cion of stealing a jack. Thie flogging was done by

bolong1ng to the company ot Captain Stephens.

~angers

The record

of the 1nvest1r at1on made by your depertmont of the killing of
Hanger Dudley Whlto."

I take the

A~jutent ~eneral's

there wee no investigation made there.

word that

With those matters.

I will allow them to olose, as far ae I am concerned about

this matter.
TU~

I oannot t.1le this untll I get my reoord strs1ght.

CHAIRMAN:

! will say, so tar ae the 1nvest1gat1on

that refers to nudley White la concerned. 1n oonnect1on with
somo of the committee that has already been discueeed and we
eooo process to bring some Witnesses hero.

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

13

•

1as~ed

 GENERAL MARLEY:
House committee as

The papers have been turned in to the
sho~n

tho Vu.dley nh1te case.

by the records of the House clerk. in

llr.

Canales seys they are not in the

file but tho record of the olerk of the House shows that they
wero turned in. tle has a list ot all the papers turned in.

Those papers were among them and of oourse

~le

record shows.

If they are not there we are not responsible for them.
have not been in our office sinoe that time.

The

They

House

Comnittee clerk' a list shows that the Dudley White papers were
received, we think.

Mr. Canales has had oharge of those papers

I think and if they are lost he is probably the man who has lost
them.
SENATOR PAGE: ·He charges here first that the record of
the investigation of J. J. Edds, October 5, and the affidavits
of Edda and other Rangers are in your poseeas1on and you decline

to--GENERAL HARLEY: · They are here and have been filed with the
clerk. this morning.

SENATOR PAGE:

Seoond, he says the records of your depart-

ment with reference to threats made by Frank Hamer consisted
of two letters addressed by him to Governor Hobby and two letters
to you.

Are they your letters?

YR. CANALES:

Yes, sir.

GE!l&RJ\L HARLEY:

!

will state I had copies of those letters,

llr. Canales, and have filed them with the clerk, they are with

the olerk this morning.

tm. CANALES: Where are tho originals?
GEUERAL HARLEY:

In the hands of the Department of 3ust1ce.

They took the investigation up.

SENATOR PAGE:

He oalls for the investigation of Captain

Fox's oompany.
03NERAL HARLEY:

Those

papers went to Washington. We had

to get those papers back. They are filed this morning, I think.

Texas
State Library and Archives Commission
13~

-

 l.l.9

If not we oan get as many es we can.
SENATOR PAGE:

He c ells for the 1nveetigation regarding the

killing of Richburg.
GENERAL HARLEY:

SENATOR PAGE:

That has all been filed.

The record of the 1nvoat1gat1on made by

Captain Hanson of the shooting of Garo1a?
MR. CAUALES:

The shooting at Donna.
I think those papers have al1 been

GENERAL HARLEY:

filed.

I think you will find those papers this mo~n1ng. It

has all been gotten up here this morn1ng---That ~ probably bas
not oome U'P yet.
SENATOR PAGE: You have them in your department?

A

Yes;

aENA~OR:

I think so.

PAGE:

The flogging of Hernandez?

I ENERAL HARLEY:

We have to look that up. We were just

served with that about ten o'clock.
SENATOR PAGE:

The record of the investigation

0£

the kill-

ing of Ranger Dudley White?
~3NERAL

HARLEY:

SENATOR PAGE:
by

Those papers have been filed.
I understand all those papers called for

Mr. Canales are here.

I think we ought to fix a time limit

for filing of additional charges. If he wishes to file papers
on these ohargea this morning we might give him time to do that
and then close the time of . filing charges.
UR. CANALES :
SEUATOR PAGE:
MR. CANALES:

Yes, sir.
How much time do you require?
If 7ou will give me until to-morrow, I think

I can close to-morrow. I have to be present here this evening.
I can look into them tonight and dictate them tomorrow morning. ! believe I can file them by two o'clock tomorrow after-

noon.
SElUTOR PAGE:

THE CHAIRMAN:

Any objection to giving him that time?
Not two o'olook tomorrow afternoon.

13
() State
morning.
Texas
Library and Archives Commission

In the

 BBNATOR PAGE:

I move Ur Canales be given until tomorrow

morning at ten o'clock to file such sff1t1onal charges and
that that shall be the end of his charges.

That after that

time no further ohargee are to be 1nvest1geted.
THE CHAIRMAN:
objection?

You hear tho motion of Senator Page.

Any

If not 1t will be considered the order of the

committee that Mr. Canales present suoh additional charges
by ten o'clook tomorrow mornipg as he desires.

In issuing process I thought we could have the witnesses
back here for this morning .

I overlooked the fact that they

could not work the Rio Grande Valley on Sunday.

It will be

morning before we oan have any of those witnesses here.
I have also taken the liberty of having process issued for
the district judge. the sheriff and justi"Oe of the peace at
Sweet Water , with reference to the general oondit1one that
have been contained in the oomplainte here, and I desire the
Department to have the advantage of that information.
Ia there an1 other member of tho oomittee that has a suggestion to make about the taeuanoe of prooesa at this time?
Is there any witness present Who desires to be heard this
morning?
General Harley. do you prefer to be heard now or after
these matters have been gone into more fu.117?
GElffi:RAL HARLEY:

I have some exceptions to some of the

charges filed. I would like the oommittee to take them up,

THE CHAIRMAN:
GENERAL HARLEY:

Have you prepared them in writing?.
Yea, sir.

I w111 read them to the com-

mittee and committee oan pass on them.

134 State Library and Archives Commission
Texas
=

==

 EXCEPTIONS OF THE ADJUTANT GENERAL TO THE
CHARGES FILED BY MR. CANALES

---o--Aust1 n, Te.."!as ,
February 3, 1919.

To t'lie tfonorable w. 1.f. Bledsoe, Chat:tman, a.nd the
~embers of the Joint Comm1tteeof the qouae and
Senate to 1nvesti~ate t"'e Char~es A~ainet the
State Ra mer Foree:
Sirs:
Wow comes, Jamee A. T.farl ey, Adjutant General of
Texas and files tl\is answer reply~n~ to tl-te char~es filed herein
on tl\e 30th day of January 1919 by .r. T. Cana.lee, Representative from the 77th District and says:

Fi rst.

That for the sake of

joinj~

issues and in

order t'liat testimony may be heard upon information denies t"le
fjrst

c ~er~e

made by said Canales and says that ea.me is not

true and if true, which 1e not admitted . wishes to state tha t
t~e ohar~~ s t~erein

conta5ned as stated by said Canales, has

never been brouPht to the attention of the Adjutant General 's
Department. and states tha t the eaid Canales 1f

~e

ledqe of such conduct on the pa.rt of such Ra.no:e r s ,
Hurst and Daniel llinojosa, never di eolosed such

had lrnow~eorP'e

knowled~e

information o f the Adjutant Genera.l ' s Department, and in
i f he had such

knowled~e ,

B.
for
t~1s,

he was derel1ot in his duty as a

citizen.
Seoond.

To the eeoond oharqe ma.de by said Canales,

a denial is hereby entered for the sake of

join1~

issue in

order that t estjmony may be produced before tl-\e Conmi ttee and

t1'te ea.id Jamee A. ttarl ey, Adjutant r.eneral of Texae, etates
t~at if such viol~tion of the person of Jeous Villarreai did

,,

ooour, tliat i t was unknown to th e . Adj utant Oenera.l' s Depart-

ment and if euoh conduct on the part of said J . J . Edds and othe r
Raru;ere is t rue and the said Canales had

-

13tJ

knowled~e

o f such fact ,

he did not d1solose it to the proper authorities, either the

novernor
or the
Adjutant
Gene
1~1. and in t his
Texas State
Library
and
Archives
Commission

he was derelict

 in hie duty ae a citizen.

~ea,

char~e

To the third

Third.

ae ma.de by the said Cana-

the Adjutant General adrni to t"'ie fact of

t'1eld.lli~

of Li·

zando Munoz. but ~tates tlla.t same vJae un·a vofdable.
Fourth.

To the fourth
r~neral

Ca nal es. the Adjutant

o'mr~e

as made by the said

enters an adm1os1on t'iat a

ican by name of l'aria Gomez Sal1 nae wao killed by two
hut in
of

killi~

Ser~eant

said Salinas

t~ey

were not

~'exioane,

killi~

at the ti me.

To

Fifth.

'ex-

so under orders

doin~

J . J. Edds; that said Edds did not order

and was not pr esent

1

t~e

fifth

made by the said Canales

oliar~e

that on or about the 4th of April 1918, one Florencia Garcia.
wa s killed while in trie custody of
flittre. the Adjutant

~eneral

Ra.n~ers

J.ock, Saddler and

enters a denial and says that

t~e

ev!dence as djeclosed does not prove to any rea.eona.ble persai
tha t t he said Garcia was killed by the
t~ e

Grand Jury of Cameron County, to

whjo~

juta nt General,
Jury, and

acti~

believS~

tiqate said

~ainet

lil~ers

t~e

That

said ca-

comp'8.1nt and found

aamed.

T~a.t

th Ad·

upon the official action of said G:rand

tha t

t~ey

alle~ed kill!~.

killed by said

the

aforesaid.

county

alle~ed

nalee 18 a resident. invest1v,ated tlle
no bill of indictment

Ba~ers

Ra~~ra.

were !n better pos!t5on to invesdi d not fi nd tha t said C.aroia was

1?urtller, th at the Captain of said com-

pany, Captain C'liarlea F. Stevens whom the ea1d Carnies admitted
before thi s Comrni ttee wa.s

a; ~ood

adjutant General tlla t trom hia
tha t the

Ra~ers

of said Garcia.
of

t~e

o t"fioer, had report.ed to the

i nveeti~at!on

he djd not believe

above named had a ny t hina to do w1th the

Tl-le Adjuta nt General,

Cameron County Grand Jury a nd

aotin~

w~1cll

killin~

upon the find1nqe

county is the reai•

dent county of the said Canales, end upon the report of the
Said Captain

Cha~les

?. Stevena, whom

t~e

13h State Library and Archives Commission
Texas
is

said Canales states

 ~cod

states is a

and reliable of'ficert did not find that tlie

evidence presented to t'1e Department

·~011ld

,.,arrant ti.ie conclu-

sion

t~at

the :A:Lrusers killed the said Oarcia.

in~ .

t'1e Adjutant General says that the said

?irtlier anewel'-

took and

Ra~ers

Saddler are now out of the service and are no 1orurer on the
Rantter ?oroe.
F~fth .

(a) Further

anewer1~ oha~es

made

by t~e ~O?)oo

orable John J. Ford as presented b y the said canales
~ers

were

~il ty

Ran-

of mi aoonduct 1 n :tlolan County and that they

brutally treated prisoners 1n
~ilty

t~at

the~r ohar~e .

or that they were

of any other serious mieoonduot, the Adjutant General

enters a denial and says that same is not substantiated by any

record filed in hie Department. or any evidence obtainable eo
far as he has been able to ascertain.
S'xth.

Answerin~

ales herein on the first of

tlie sixth charge filed by said CanFebrua~,

1919, the Adjutant Gen-

eral oays that the statements and allegations oontained in said
charge .re unfair, mislead:f nq, and made with the

deli~e:rate

attempt to reflect upon the Adjutant General's Department )n
the di aoli.arge of tl'leir duty for the reason that the said J. :R.
l!allo and the said Jol\n Bloxom alleqed to have killed Ernest

w.

Richburg at

duty on

~e

Ba~er,

'l'exae, were di aoh.ar~ed and relieved of

10th day of January 1919 , after the Adjutant neneral

:In compa.Y\Y with·;;.

v..

11n~ and interviewe~

Hanson ha.d

visit~d

tlie aoene of theki l•

the witnesses that were

ava~lable.

after the Adjutant General left the aoene of the

killin~

That
he left

Captain qanaon in charge to cont1nue andto make a more thorou~h inveeti~ation

of the said

killin~

of

Richbur~.

T"tat

afte~

the evidence was collected and presented to the Governor reoommend1 ~ the

13,

done.

dj~oharge

of the eaid

~alle

and Bloxom. the same wae

That upon the advice of tli • o1tizena of tlie town of Ban-

Texas State
Library
Commission
~er, the
sat e and
HalleArchives
and BlolliOm
were left on duty as the onl y

 protection the town of Ranger had against lawlessness. mun-
der and bootleceing until relieved the 10th day of January in
the due course of events. That the whole investigation and
statements taken in this investigation were turned over to the
District Attorney at Eastlend, Texas, for his benefit in the
trial of the said Eloxom and hallo.
GENERAL HARLEY: Number 6, that has reference to the
Ranger matter. There is no issue on that matter on?
cept as to when the Ranger should have been discharged.
These men were discharged as soon as the investiga-
tion could be ma?a. Thorough investigation was made
and when conclusion was reached that they ought to
be discharged from the Ranger Roroe they were d?so
charged.
BEHATOR PAGE: We charges that was not the cans. He
charges there was a delay.
GETTERAI. That is the only issue. whether or
not this committee is going into issues of policy or
some delays of some few days. We might be at that
all the year. if he continues-if the committcc wants
to go into that. It struck me that that was an is?
relevant matter and a matter that would take a great
deal of evidence and a great deal of time to reach
any canolusion. The investigation wan made as soon
so it could be madsunder the ciroumatanoes and when
it was made the man.was discharged from the Ranger
Service.
SETATOR I think that creates an issue.
GEWERAL WARLEY: i do not object to having it heard

but it is going to take up a good deal of time of

the 121.30..

 

 

 

•

T~t.£ OHA!RTtAN:

\'.ltlter,

You tske the fourtl'\ cha.r~e at sweet,;.

There 1s

vo1~

to be

sue~

a oloae connection

with the cornpany of lll.rw.ere in that 1rnmed1ate aecti·on. ! think you will find that an iseue.
GENERA!. "1AllL:!!.Yl

Al rt ~lit .

SE..'.'ATOR FA~E: !n ord er to ta.ke the-in order ·to keep

the record etrai~ht. ! move that tltat exceptionfo~
tlie adjutant General be ove:t'-ruled by our committee.
! second tlte motion.

s:ei-.NtCR W!ll!PO!ID:

'l''fE c·tA!R?!Alf: !t 1a moved by sens.tor Pa~e tl\a.t this

objection be ovel'-ruled, those in favor of that mo•
tion

sj~n1f'y by

eay ng .&ye and those oppose No.

( l'o ti on carri ed) •

Seventh.

Reply1ru; to the seventh

ohar~e

of the ea.id

Canales on "tl\at on tlte 24t.'h day of December 1918, aaid I-a.ngec '.Barnette d!d snoot at two J'exioanc, woundSn~ one...

The Ad-

jutant General states that the alleq&tions as set out by the said
cana.les are unfair.

mieleadin~

in tnat he attempts to show tha t

the Adjutant nenera.l was enco~ra~h1~ bad conduct on tlie :pa.rt of

Banqers when in fact the same is not tru•

The evidence will

show that the 1~exican wounded on the oocaeion menti oned above

was wounded by one Deputy Sheriff,

t y, who

w. T.

Davis of Presidio Coul1!i>

aaoumes all responsibility for the

said Barnette merely

disohar~ed

h1s

~un

sh.ooti~.

Tl-tat

t~e

in an effort to appre.

hend the 1rexioan aforesaid and t'l-\at he was reprimanded for eo
doina;.
Git.lfB.RA!. ~RLEY:

Th·it cl'la.~e has reference to dis-

o""tal'qirus the pistol out in 'Vest Texas out on somebody

13tJ

ranch where th.tt man Davis tha t l'r. canales mentioned

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 in his cnaree. he 1& a
not a

dep~ty

t~ere

and

Jle.~Gr.

Tliat

T1 '11 C'V.!m!AN:
~tAnI:,J*N:

r..EimnA:r.

~s

very ma.te111a.1'·

! f he adrllj ta t1te man Da.vi s ia

Ghei~5. ff......

T'!f.;

sheriff out

CTtA!Rt!A~r:

na~er

li' s

Tha.t 1s not

narr1ette was a member

oli.a.~e.

or

a. deputy

f.Te au.ye the

Cept. J . A. Grays

Compar:\V sta tioned at J.'arfa, Texas, did shoot at two
~'eXi

cans etc. ,

ahot

t"t~ a

He c"'!iart;teo directly t":tat the RaMer.o

r::an•

SEMA?OR PAGE:

1

move that

t~at

objection be

ove~

ruled.
(ro~ion

Seoonded)

T 1 I1~ CTtATRl'AN:

!t ia moved and eeoonded that that

exception of the Adjutant General trie charge number
'1 be ove~ruled.

61gnify by

sayjn~

Tliose in

Aye and

favol' of tliat moti on
t~ose

oppose No.

( lotion prevailed and the exo$pt1on to

o"liar~e

';o.

7 v1a.s ovel.'- ruled)

Eighth.

Aneweri~

the eiqhth oharqe as set out by the said

Cana.lee, the Adjutant <'eneral ayae t'liat t'he aame af; stated by
the aaid Canales is false .

That the said Canales knew it V/aa

fa.lsEI when he so etat.ed it , but tha.t he deliberately and with

evil intent to mislead this comm1tteti. stated tho.t the sa.id
nentl ay wan a Ra~er wi-ten in fa.ct and :in tructh the se.S d :Bentley

had been prior to the alleqed trouble at San Antoni o
from tha lb~er 'Korce for n1! sconduot.

T'i.a.t vth$n tl\e said a.aeaul t

took place at San Antonio , the said Bentley had been

froJll the

Rl~er

djsohar~ed

diac'tiar~ed

Force.

14 O State Library
lfinth.
To the ninth
clia.r~e, the
Texas
and Archives
Commission

Adjutant Genexal

 enters a denial and nays t\.\at t·1.e said Captain 'i. 'K. Ra.neon
dili~ent

ha.o been B
th~

and

fait~ful

offjoer.

That he

~as

incurred

d1 e:ra.vor of tlie ea1d Cana.1 ea because he h.R.s been too aot1 ve
'

in enforcement of law in th tl oa:fd Canales' section or the

count~

and jn th5o oon · -ection the Adjutant General requests. th.at. the
Comm1 ttee have the said Captain lfa.nson before

1nvest1vation of

tl-\~m

for a full

t~is c~n~~e.

To tlie 10th

Tenti-t.

Ca.nflles that tlie Adjutant

cha.r~e Bii

~eneral

r1•eaented by the eai cJ

has been s'l-\ow1rur special fa.vors

to poli t:f cal friends an<l pets of t'he administration, . the A.dju'

tant General enters
for t"'te deliberate

a: den:f sl and ea.ye tliat tli.i a chari7,e is mtlde
purpose or rcneoti~ upon tli.e Governor of

Texn.e and upon l' r . Caeaar

ly to the

beoo.uee 1-\e happens to be frien:l-

admSriiat~tion.
T~e

whole

Rlebe~

cha.r~e

Adjutant General ma.kee emp1'\at1c denial of this
unwa.J~ra. nted

as a nalioiouG,

untruth.

•l'lte authority

of t'he Adjutant General has not beon 11oed fort>ie purpose of ahow

1nq favor to anyone

a.\'ld

th:is Adn11nistration has no political

pets.
Tlte reason for

to render protection to

keepi~

t''l~t

Harl£!el'3 on the

Ki~

:Ranoh. is

E.rxotion of Texas f'rom Mexican ....anTh.e Ai~ ~no"l, to vh.1cli. lie re

d:i ts. tli5 eves, and murdel'ers.

fere in Willacy a.nd 0th.er oount 1es lVle mucli less t11an two milliob acres.

Yr·

Klebe~~ ~s

here.

to~et'her

oomm1tteee rrom that section of Texas, to
of tl-ta

I. e~i sla.tur.~

with several
en11~hten

lar~e

the members

wli.o do not know cond1 t.ions th.era as to the

true conditions ancl. tlie

n~ed

of'

Iia~ere,

a.nd to assure them that

the trood oi tizenship of that oountry cannot live :in t1ia t .sec-

tion of Texas in peace or safety to their lives and
leoe a

utron~

force of

4epen1ently of local

ta~ers

of~1oe ra.

are ota.tioned
T11.e

Ki~

t~ere

pro~erty

and act 1n-

Banol\, as well as

14i
that
section Commission
of ttie oountry,
Texas ot~er
Stateranches
Libraryin
and
Archives

have

un-

~or t~e

t~e

last

 ~ou.1

f1 fty years been tl\e special

and

aide of the Riv.er ue

t~1e

ha~

for the bad element froI". i(exioo

been evidenced by the mal'\Y'

raids and murders co:mnUtted Jm triat section of the country.

'1'l1e Adjutant 'tene.re.1
teotion

11

fu:t•tlt~r

denies tYt.at proper pr<r

:ia been denied other stoclcmen in tl\at aeotion v1ltere i t

wae poas1ble for the limited
oaee of Adolph Lorenz, a

.ra~er ~oroe

~nt~er \VS.&

to

~et them ~

sent to l\im but

!n the

the Sl-\ari ff

'19.d matters oompalined of •1ell jn hand and no necessity for a
Ra.~er

at that time•

will bo

618

~lad

Sher5ff

~ullia

of Oalcville, Live Oak County,

to testify to thia as \7Gll as 1'r.

~roat Pld~ • •

c.

1l.

Arnold,

ua.n Antonio, Texas.
Reapeotfully Youre,
Rames A. Ttarley,

The Adjutant General. State of Texas.

OEN'ERAI,

Tl1at l\ao reference to tr. KolbGrg

RA.PL~:

having, special ta?ore.
SE"~ATOn

l\,t Oenera.1 you would want tiiat inves-

PAGE:

ti~a.ted.

GE

~l~.Y ~m,1!.Y:

l don't oare- ! want to except to it.

!

would just as soon for i t to be

!

thjnk it

the reasons

ou~ht
~or

inv~sti~ted

to be investig,ated beoauoe !
the

c~ar~e ou~ht

to be

as not
t~i nk

inveeti~ated

eepec !ally.
I raove that that obj eotion-~xoeption

SE"i\.TOR PA1E:

be ovel'--ruled • .
(Duly aeoonded)

11-te

C~!RNAN:

It is moved and seconded that

exception be ove:x-ruled .

142

JYake it known
No .

by

Tl-ioee in favor

~his

~nity.

siqnitying Aye and. those opposirus

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 (Motion

.carried)
! vront

~o f~le

a.n answer to h.is cltu.ri;-

...

es.

W1tex-eupo11 tho am;iwer of tlia .Adjutant renr1al was

presented to

t~e

CorM'littee.

Beo

~a~e

After ti1e answer of ti,e Adjutant General im.d
been l>resented
'

any

t''H~

w ~tneesea w~o

Serator

jia~e

10 o'clock . .~ .

Cha1 l'llatl h'lqUired

deojred tc

j

~e ~eanl .

f' t"tol'e were
Non~ appearj~

n".oved tl-tat t'"le Coiril'rdttee arise until

r.

Tuesdo.y Febrwiy 4tl\.

~·n-ticl-t

mo ti one-

bei n~ duly seconded ca.rri ed o.nd tltc Comni t tee recessed

until t'1at t1me.

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 Austin, Texa.s.
February, , 3 , 1919.
To the Ionorable w. 1 t. Bledsoe, Cliairma.n, and the
1Aembers of· the Joint Commi ttoe of tne House a nd

Senate to !nvesti~ate the Charq.eo A.J;ainst the
State Ban~er Force~

Uow aomee, James A. 'rtnrley, Adjutant General of Texas

and files tnis answer replyinq to tne

ohar~es

filed herein on

t 11e 30t'1. day of January 1919 by J. T· On.na.les , Representative
from t1'le 77 th

D1ao~iet

First.

and aa.ys:
r

Tha. t for the sa.'ke of j oinin~ issues and in 01'-

der that testimony may be nea.rd upon information denies the

first cliarge mad$ by said Canales and eays that same is not
true and if true, 'wniah is not admitted., wiehee to sta te that
the charges therein contained aa stated by said Canales, \\as

never been

brou~bt

to the attention of the Adjutant General's

Department, and states that the ea.id Canale$ if he na.d '.knowled~

of suoh conduct on the part of auoh.

Ran~ers ,

and Daniel HinojQsa, lever disclosed suoh
rna.t:f on of

h.e

nad

Georqe B.

knowled~e

~uret

for infor-

th.e Adjutant General' e Department, and in thi::> , 1 f

suoh. knowledge, he was dereliot in his. duty as a citizen.

Second.

To the second

ohar~e

a denial is hereby entered for the sake

made by said Canales ,

o:

joinjng issue in

order that testimony may be produced before the Committee and
tl-\e said Ju.mes A. Harley, Adjutant General of Texas, states if'.,

that if such violation of the person of Jeeue Vi llarreal did
odour, that i t was unknown to the Adjutant General's Department
and if such conduct on the part of said J. J . :Eddea 4nd other
Ri.ngers is true and the said Canales had

knowled~e

of such.

fa~t .

he did not disclose it to the proper authorities, either the

Go•ernor or the Adjutant General , and in
143 a

t~is

he wae deeelict

in his duty as a citjzen.
Tltircl.

To tl\e th.1.rd
·charge a.s made
Texas State Library and Archives
Commission

by

the said canals e

 the Adjutant General admits the fact of

t~e killin~

of Lizando

Vunoz, but states tnat same was unavoidable.
~ourth.

~~e fourt~

To

charge

a~

t~e

made by

nales , the Adjutant General enters an admission

t~tlJl.t

a

said Ca?t~~ica.n

by name of' 1ft.a.ria. Gott.lez Sa.lina.e wa$ killed by . two !lexica.ns, but
do~. n~

in kill:fnq eaid Sa.lina,s they were not
Se~~eant

•

'

I

J. J. Edd$) that said :aide did not order

was not present at the time.

killin~

and

.

.

.

Fifth.
th~t

eo under orders of

To the fifth oha.rge ma.de by the said Canales

on or about tne 4th of April 1918, one Florencia. r,a.rcia

ot I'langers Lock, Saddler and

was 'killed while in the custody

Sittre, the Adjutant General enters a denial and says tnat the

evidenoe as disclosed does not prove to any reasonable person
th~t

'

the said r..a.rcia

the Grand Jtlt!f4Y of
al~

.

wa.~

Caa~n

is a resident,

3ury, and

a~ainst

aoti~

believi~

That

Courity, to wltioh county the ea.id Can-

invest1~ated

no bill of indictment
jutant General ,

.

killed by the na.~ers aforesaid.

tne

alle~ed

Rnn~ers

the

oompiain* and touni

named.

That the Ad·

upon the oft1o1a1 action of eaid

~rand

that they were in better position to invee-

tiqate said aJ.le~ed k1ling, did not find that said Garc1a. ' was
killed by said

•

na~ers.

~rther.

pany. Captain Charles F. Stevens
before this Con:mitt$e
Adjutr~nt

wa~

a

~ood

that the capta1n of said oon>o
w~om

~dmitted

officer. had reported to the

General that from h:l o investiqat1on he did not believe

that said Iangera•that the

na.n~ers

do with theld.llhli4 of ea.id Garcia.

era.l ,

the aaid Canales

a.cti~

upon the

findin~e

above named had

anythi~

to

Furthel'- T1'\~ Adjutant Gefllii

of t'h.e Cameron County Grand Jury

and which county ia t~e resident county of .the said CaTh~lee ,

and upOn the report of
vrh.om

t~e

said captain

the ea.id Cs.nales states is a

~ood

...

C~les

F. Ste•ene,

and 1·eliab1e officer. did

not find t'flat the evidence presented to the De1Jartment
143 b

warrant the conclusion that the

~~ere

1·10Uld

killed the said Garcia.

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 anawerj~•

n\trthcr

the Adjutant General saye 'that the said

~~ers

Look and saddler enoe noY1 out, of tlte sertice and a:re no . lo?l"!e4'

on the

lb.n~er ~orce.

Fift~.(a}
or~bl

".further

anewe~5ng

charge$ made by the

~on..

e John J. b'ord a.a presented by the said canal es t1,1a t l:a1.,..

gere vtere

~11 ty

of misconduct

j

n Uola.n County a.nd that tl'ley

brutally treated prisoners in their charge, or that they were
guilty of a.rry other serious ntieconduot, the Adj u.tant General

enters a denial end says that same is not substantiated by any

record filed in hte Department, or any evidence obtainable DO
far ae he

been able to ascertain.

ha.a

Dixth.

Aneweri~

the sixth oharge filed by said Can-

ales herein on the firet of Debi-uary, 1919, the Adjutant Gen eral says tha.t the statements and

alle~atione

contained in said

'

oha.rqe are

Qnfa~. mieleadin~,

and made with the deliberate atr

tempt to reflect upon the Adjutant

'

~e~eral'e

Department in the

discharge of their duty. for the reason that the said J. B. Nalle
and the said John Bl0%0m alleged to have killed
bur~

~meat

at lbnger. Texas, were diooharged and relieved

th.e 10th day of January 1919,
!it~

.company

w.

a:tter ~

duty on

Y.. Hanson had visited the ~cene of the kill1~

· the Adjutant General left the eoene of the

in~eati~ation

Rio"h-

the Adjutant General in

and intervieued the witnesses that were available.

ohar~e

tain Hanson in

or

w.

1dlli~

he left Cap.

~

thorou~h

to continue and to make

of the s•id

killin~

That after

of R:iohbur«•

more

That after the

ev1d4nce was oolleated and presented to the Governor reoommendin~

done,
~er.

the

disoha.r~e

of the aa1d Nalle and Bloxom, the

wae

That upon the actvice of the citizens of tne town of Rlnt~e

said Nalle and Bloxom were left on duty as the only

protection t'he town of
and

same

bootle'S'?;i~

Ra11~er

had a~ainst lawlessness. murder

until rel:feved the 10th day of January in the due

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 course of events.

~t

the whole

and statemen1s

1nveeti~ation

ta.ken in thio 5 nvesti~ation were turned over to the District
Attorney at l astland, Texas, for hie benefit in the trial

or

t'he eai <1 Bloxom and the said Balle.
s~venth.

Replyjn&; to the seventh

ot the said

·O'liar~e

Ca na les on "'l'hv..t on the 24th day of Deoember 1918, sa.1d na~er

:Barnette did sl\oot a.t two mexicane , ~oundin'!; one" • t~te Adjutant
General states th.at the
ale& are unfair,

misleadin~

Ad.Juta.nt General was
~era

alle~ation

as set out by the said Canattempt~

in tna.t he

encou~i ~

to show

tl\~t tlle

bad conduct on the part of

when in fact the same is not trv.e.

~n

The ev1deno ewill ewti/W

th4't the J1:exican wounded on the occasion mentioned above ,r;ra.e
wounded by one Deputy 3heriff,

w.

T. Da.vjs of presidio County,

who assumes all responsibility for f,h.e ah.Qotin~.

Barnette merely diaoharged hie
the

1~·exica.n

~un

T11s.t the said

in a.n effort to apprehend

aforeaa.id and that lte was reprimanded for ao dointg•

.EJ.~hth.

the said canalee,

Anaweri n~ th.e Ej ~11.tli
t~e ~d.jutant

oha.r~e

as set out by

Geheral says tnat the same as

stated by tlte said Canales is false.

That the said Canales knew

i t was talse ~hen he so stated it, but that he delibel'6tely and

with evil intent to mislead

Dentley was a

Ra.n~er

t~i e

committee, stated tha t the said

when in fact and in truth the ea.id Bentley

had been prior to the

alle~edtrouble

" from t11e Iian~er 'Force for mi aoonduot.

at San Antonio d1echarqed
That when tl\e said es--

eaul t took pla.ee at sa.n Antonio, t'1e said Bentley had been
diac'V'targed~

£:-om tlte

Nineth.

Ra~er

.Force.

To tne Nineth

ohar~e,

the Adjutant General

enters a denial and says that the said captain
has been a dili~ent and faithful officer.

~.

That

M. Hanson

~e

has incurred

the disfavor of the said canales beoa.uee he 1'ae been too active

in enforcement or law in the said Canales' section
try

143
d
Texas

0£

the coun-

and in th.is connection the Adjutant General requests tha.t

State Library and Archives Commission

 the Commi t t ee have ti-te said Ca.pta.1n rranson before them for a full
1nveotigat1on cf this
Tenth.

Canales that

t~e

oh.ar~e.

To the 10th Char~e as presented b~.. the sajd

Adjutant General

~as

been showing speoial fav-

ors to pbl i t1ca1 .friends and pete of thc Administration. the
1

ehar~e

Adjutant General entere a. denial and saya t 11a.t this

made for the

deli~era.ta

of Texas and upon Ur.

~efleotin~

]ntrpose of

Ca~ear Kl~ber~

beeauee

is

upon the Governor

~e

happen& to be

friendly to the administration.
The Adjutant General makes emphatic denial o'f this
w~ole char~e

as a ma.licioua.

un~rrnnted

The ·authori~;

untruth.

of the Adjutant General nae not been used for the purpose
s'howj. n~

or

favor to anyone and this Adm.inf strat i on hasno poli t:!.ca.l

pets.
The reason for

keepin~ Ien~e~e

rende:r. Protection to thn.t

thieves , and murderers.

sq~tion

on the

Xin~

Ranch is to

of Texn.s from li!a.x:ioan ba.ndi t el

The Xin~ Rlnch, to which he reters i n

V/1llacy and other count:f.ea ha$ much leas than t\vo milllon acres.

rr. Kleberg is here,
th~t

to~ether

with several

lar~e

committees from

I

section of Texas, to em!J.iqhten the members or tne

ture who

do not kno,1 condi tiona there as to the true co11di tions

and the need of

lbn~era .

zenshi p of

country oonnot live in that section

t'l1.&t

and to assure

peace or safety to their lives and
of

Inn~ers

officers •

Le~iala-

tl~'llll

p~operty

th.at tne
unless a

~ood

or

citi-

Tex.as in

st~o~

f orce

are stationed there and act independently of local

The

Ki~

l\l.nelt, as well as other ranches in that

n•otion of the country . have fo·re the last :r1 fty years }Jeen

the opocial goal for the bad element from Mexico and thie eide
of the river as has been evidenoed by the many raids a.nd mttl'-

dera committed in that section of the country.
~'he

Adjutant General further denies

t~~t

proper pro-

teotion has been denied other stoolauen in that sec tion where i t
· 1 4 Texas
3 e

State Library and Archives Commission

 wae possible for tne limited

tan~e r

Force to get to them.

t~e

Ran~er

was sent to him but the

oaee of Adolph Lorenz, a

In

Sheriff ha.o mattere oompla1ned of. well in. nand and no neoeeaity
for a Fan~er at that time. Sheriff Tullis of Oakville, Live
oak County._ will be 'Slad to teetify to this ae well ae Mr. C. H.
Arnold, 618 b"rost

B1d~ .,

San .Antonio, Texan.- ·

Respectfully youre,
J'a.e . A. Harley.
Tl\e Ad,1utant

.

G~neral ,

State of' Texas •

F!LED FEBRUAN'l 3rd, 1919. Walter Pridemore, Seoy • , Joint Oommi t..tee

!nv enti~~tin~

Texas State

Ran~ers.

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 Texas

!a~Sl'S

C0!1Vened ~t

w. ''f.

10 A.Y. ...itl\
<p1•esidin~.

Dledsoe

Present:
Sert'ltox•

n.

~on.

y;~ 111

ford

c. iaokey.

of the house, to f:fle "1ere 7 more

ohar~es-there

a.re

tlirae at the requeat of members of tlie 1 rouse now beint;t
prepared.

Tllt! records W$rt!t not before me and it is

not in the record h&re.

Tm·

! t will be filed sometime

en request of Qther members

C"'t'ATP.f.'A.,.l:

than yourself?

1m.

facts at all, but
myself.

Ye$ s:f r .

OAF.Al.ES:
o~

! clo not know t"le

request of other members tlian

The list of additional

char~ee

! have here

·qh1 ch '! wi oh. to preaont to you, and ! al ao 'have a

reply so as to

bri~

in focue tne

:f seuee

raised

by

th.e Adjut.ant General yesterda,.- o. reply to liis anew.-.

'1' 1fE CtfA!R!'AU:

lh~ereupon

th.e

followi~

!,et us hear youl." supplemental
..

!'r• Canales read to the Co:mm:ittee

addition:i.l chargesv
Aust1n~ ~exae ,

Jf'ebrua.ry 3 , 1919.

Tc . t~e

~onorable

w.

~.

Bledsoe, Cha1rnan, and the members of the

Texas Joint
State lnveot1p;atirut
Library and Archives
14~
Cormnittee Commission
of the 'fouoe n.nd Senate to :f nveeo--

 t1gat1ng Comm1tte of the House and Senate to Investignte
charges against the State Ranger Force:
COll'l'IlTU.t\':!.'IO'.i.. O.l!'

ll.

Ol:U~1CES.

I charge

that on or about January 28, 1918,

fifteen lloxioans. after they had boon arrested end
stat a

diaa~med by

under Ca1Ytsin J. :1. :!!"ox's oomnend. et or near El

r~anBero

Porvonir !n ?reaidio County. having boen arrested on suspielon.
~:ero

1lnlrdered by saiii Hangers without any juati .f'ioet1on or

excuse and wi tilou"i; giving oaid

i~exicane

an opportunity to prove

themselves innocent of the of roneea charged aea1nst them.
charge that there

~ere

I

two investigations made of th!s affair.

one conducted 'by Capt. W.

~f .

Hnnson, the investigating of ~ioer

of tile Adjut3nt General's nepartmont, which investigation eeake
to justif:'l the l\ant"era 1n th ta sf:r1e.r. and the invest lgati on

oond.ucted by tho United Stat$S Authorities under the direction
of :First Lieutenant

~str!ok

!(elly, of the iJ.

s.

Army . in

\1~1oh 1nveet1gation he conolus1 vely shows that these i'tfteen
Mexiaons , after havtng been arrnated

were killed !n cold blood.

~ma

diasrmea by tlH:t Rangers ,

I call this to the attention of

the oommi.ttoe in further SUI>'.POrt of my charge

~o .

9 against

Capt. w. :.{. Hanson as un!'i t !or the oftioe l'l"hich he holds under

tho Adjutant General.

! wish also to oall the attention of the

Comm1. ttee to the !aot thnt. although the Adjutant General dieohareoc1

the !{angers who eom.mi ttod this outrage as well ae Capt .

J. M. Fox. who was 1n GOtlManet of the Rane;era et the time• yet

aooording to Capt. Fox's letter of June 11, altholl8h he, Capt.
Po~. ae~umed

the

res~onsibilitjB:B ~or t~is

outrage and asked that

he, himself, be disahsrged, the Adjutant ueneral of tho State who.

1s

the present incumbent reftu3e<t to diechsr6a hlr'l at the time,

but Capt.

~ox

chargaa that h1a eubs9quent d1soharge as captain

o-f the P.angers was duo to tho tact that he was not aupJ>Or-ting
GoveJ.·nor. Hobby for Govornot l>ut was a supporter o:f &x-Govomor

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 Fereuson.

! further charge that from the reoords 1n this ·

invosttaation and the r.ay aaid 1nve,t1gat1on Wa9
the Adjutant

General~s

Do-partmont r em

1~d

han~led

by

atronely to baliove

that the diacharr.e of cant. l!'ox. as he ol.nit"la. wtr du.a to
~olittcal

reaeone rather than to thn

~act

that ho had

approved the outrage oorltllitted by h1.s men an" has ammmn<l the

>:oapnnsibi.lit:v tliarefor. In this oonnectlon ! wish to suhntt
for the oona1dorat1on ol the oommlttee the whole file of the

Adjutant Ganora1's
as

"l'~xhtb!. t

snd herein

of~ioe rnar1~d ~-4tt

!".

! oharge thnt tre 1.nvcstJ.cptf.on helC! neccmbor 29,

12.

1910. '"'· t~ regerll to the murder <>f t;rneat
Te~ce.

to

ro£erre~

re:!err.ed to 1n

mr

was

t~urdered

lUohberB at l{anger ,

otxth cbargo wna condnctod hy <.;apt.

P'annon and that. al.though it Vlss
~iohbcrg

w.

ft

notor·2ous

ft~ct

that aa1d

in his own place or busineso, the recora

of i:mid tnvoetiget1on ocndueteif by

ifi.

M. Ranson seeks to justi-

fy the actions o:f. sr:iic\ .:.tnngers b y loaCJine; the 1,epe:rtmcnt to

beliove tl1&t tho killing tock -plaoe in 9n attem t to

~eiil

a

gmnblinSJ 'hm.t.se and thua justf.ty t'he .t:l13ngere 1 n such nnla":ful
lct 111ng. In th1 a rJOn:t'.loctl.on I wish to call yo11r

the fact that oince this

tnveet1g~tton

ot ona of tbeae rangors ono the
! oall this matter to the

!~ry

attentJo~

attention to

there has beon a trial

has found the man e;ttilty.

of the eomm1tte in

furt'hor suppor.t or my charge No. 9 e3a!nat the un:fitness of
Ca!)t. Hanson as 1nv'?stlgst1ng ofi"ice:c of the 'Der>artmout, tmd
in au.pr>ort o! this 01 a'."'zG I here offer the record. or the invest! ..
gatf.on meoe by hlm of nttHl a!tair at

13.

I chare;c

exaot date I am
~ounty, ' 1'!}~S'1.,

with

~mother

th~tt

l10t

tt~meor,

Tnxas, which 1a

in 'the fire t part of August , 1918. the

-

acle to give, at o;,· noar 129.nna. B!dalgo

a ''exlcan by the namo of Artiioro Garc1.g . in oespany

Mcxicnn by the name o

.f'e<lro

t110 jnil at von~a, Tc:!(as, by aome off1cero
46
Texas State Library and Archives Commission

T~,

was taken out

ana ! havo reason t o

o~

 beli eve that among t hese of ficere there were some St ate
Eannors, belongine to the com~an1 ot Capt. Stephens stationed
at :ieraedes, Hidalgo County, Texaa . about nino miles :from

Donna. antl that those ..Je::doens. after being taken out

or

town

in an automobile. ~e~e told to go away and thoy were shot at

byJ~r~foers.

among whom there

WGr~

State Rangers, wounding

tho aaid Arturo Garqie in the lGg end he was left thf>re all

that ninht until he was ricked u~ by a 3.r~ Busby who lived e t
that ttme at ~~rondos. Texae · I charge that in making
•

this inVGBtlgation Capt. W. ~i. Hanson SOU(tht to fasten the
reaponsibilit~ for th1s unlawf.'nl act on the loaal off.1oG~a

and ot t1:~ens !n order to shie l d the ~angora trho oommi tted

thf s outrase. ! call the attention

or

the Commi.ttee to his

letter of Vctober 24, 1918 , addressed to General James A.

Hsrlay and alan to all correspondence and tnvest1gat1on maaa
in ree;ar.d thoreto. Wh1ch

14.

r

here mark "Exblhi t X" .

I charge that on or about tho

same ti::ne ae in the

abovo charce no 13 that in or about Donna. Texas. a other

~roxican by the name of Joso Hernandez was f l ogged and horeewh1 ppec1 and maltreated b.7 State ~angers from tho ocmnsny of
Captain Stephens beonuse he waa suspected of having stolen a
jack. I ~urther chttrge tha-c Cantain ~. :!. Ranson . before he

.riniahed said investigntion, told me in Browns~tlle that one
Fred Winn, a deput7 sheroff oi Cameron County had told him that
+he

hn 'W.la,Yone who had comm! ttea this outrage. and st the time I

knei.1• tbat auoh informeti on was untrue sa tho offense waa
oom!u! tted at a ranch south of Donna 1~ 1~1daleo Co. and about

fift1 mil es from 3rownnv11le ann tho said ~rod Winn did not
knO\'! enyth!ng 1.1bout th' s transact! on .

hecau3c it was about this timo thet

r

I mention thla i"lolden.t

woke np to th~ .!sot

that, in ell 5.nvcat ig1ttlons maclo b:,• Capt. Hanson. ho e1.thcr

tr lod to jm:~tif.y the set tons of the Ranf~:·n•s or to shield thom
by gettint\ statements ...rotn locml etttho1·1 ties in whloh the;y· aneumed

14,Texas State Library and Archives Commission

/

 the rospons1bili ty t or the unla\".'ful sots 1n order to shield ·

the Rangers . In connection with thia oharse I

ar:~in

refer to the letter of Cert. Har.son o"! Vetolier 34, 1918.
e<lor~gaea

15.

to Je.1-;co A. ilarley, enCl marked "l:xhibit Y.."
! further o.herge thot thore er<: now, and there

have been £or some tit'!e. tn the atete Rnr.iger force men of
deRnerote ~h~raeter, notori.ou.Rly 1010\•,111 aB gurroon,

~.~>'. ~ •...

thetr on'f~. t
I

a

investigat6 him e.fterwcrd;

~nn

first and then

that the ohsracter of

in notorio\':.s end v.-ell

1~no'l\n

seid men in tha State

l~nngrr

nr.cl

th~t

J.\

tn the amplo9

the~e
i~nt

man
()f

i'orce tho A<1Jutsnt General !.s

at thcr nct;'!.it;c;nt in tho selection of. t,ts m1.1l1 or else it ls
hiu r>oli.cy- to hrn-o onch chsrl a'f;e:r:s J.n the ;.ar.15c1· ....orco to te.rrori

zc end 1ntiuldste tha citizens of tl1ls State. In connection

with thic charge I desire th!g Committee to pass in review
the

v~ry

m0u thDt are now in the

for~e

and examine for them-

ee 1ves by lookint; at these mozs who have been , and are now ,

in the force.
l o" ..

I

aha~ge

that c1t1zona in my eounty and sdjoining

counties rof'uae to l'lAke charges against Ilangors for violations

bcoauae they hevo become convinced of tho fact thet the Adju-

tent Uenernl's department, lnstoad of 1nvesti8ating the cffioer
\1.ho a:r.o charged -;v!th vi.olattng the lew, would put S3id officers

on notice of the ohc.rges '!"1ade against tho:n and then hold oneeldecl and. ·1,artlal inv~1:JtiBations of tho charges a6e!.nnt the
Stet~ !\enc~ra ~l th a view ·to jt1et!f31llfl their aeti.ons. In this

oonncction ! wish to call tho attention
my oorres'{)ondence ':'·ith

·~he

oi'

thta committee to

Governor em' tho Aojutent General

with regard to cae.rgos made ngsinat State Hangers wherein, after
the charges v;ere r.mde. instead o;f keoptng those charges secret

by the Adjutant General's department. they would pnt the por-

2on chargeo on notice that charges were made and for that

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 reason peaceable and 1aw-ab1ding aitizena would not make
cBargee ar,a!nst
m~n

t~e

Rangers, knowtng the character of the

in the f:oroe. When I filed my charge o'f the threste

made ageinot

~ by

11nngor Pr3nk Hamor at

Bro~nsvtllo,

with Gove:nor Hobby and reterrod hy him to General
for 1nveet1;:rnt1on. the said '1eno;-a1 Rsrley, then
Ad'~tant

General, wired said Ranger

~rank

Texas,

~arle~

am~

nov.•

Hamer on December

23, 1918 , as follows!

"Under. Governor's oraors you are instruoted not to

?:lake any threeta ags1:rst the ltvea or any ot.ttzans
o~eoially J. T, Canales and that he is to be siven
'l'ro1Hn• -protoot1on ea s ct tt ~en. ComT>leint hes been t':l led
thet ~ron have made so~'le thraats. '\ii thout 3oinc; 1n1;o the
truth of the msttt>-r 1ou fire 1nstructea to be crnro""·al end
courteous ut all ti!."lOs and not to make e. l>oraonal
matt~r o-r :vonr o'!'t1c;1al ant1ee.
1Jndertako to acljt1st ~!;
d!fferenoes as best 1ou can VTi thout C!:!U.81.nt.r any t1:0~1bl&.
Ancwnr."

"H arley, Adjutant

~eneral . "

In connection wlth th!s oharge ! here'tlth submit the oorl'esponnenee on th ta sub jeot :trorn th~ Ac1 ;Tuta1lt v ,.,n!}r!'?1 ' ~~ off ice ,
marked "B·2" and herein referred to ae "Ex-hib 1t T," ..
l~.

! charse that the Adjutant Cenoral could have,

w1 thout the least expanse to the State• made pro!)er lnvest1est1ori
and al• minetod from the .Ltangcr Serv1oe notoriously bed men
t·hoso nemea have hoen called to his attention as shown 1n my

nreviou3 charges, but that it hes boon h1a

G1a~os1t1on

and the

dtspoeition o! t;he Department to r-een snct maintain ench
ohar3oter of Men tn the foroo, and that lt wltl
something like

~12 ,000

or

~15 ,000

for

oo~t

inv~stigatton

the State
of this

charaoter. and ! thgrefore charge th.at the r.rosent 1neumbent of
the office

am~

ts wholly incompetent.to discharge the duties

of his office and that this

oom~ittee,

should ao flna and recommend to the

in !ta investigation.

Gov~rnor

that he ahould

select for ea id of.flea some proper per.son who ts able to &'X$ro 1ee

the duties or said offtoe with dignity anu eo"not!ly and with honor

to the State .

RospQetful1y Ero.bnlttod,

14U State Library and Archives Commission
J. T. CANALES.
Texas
the 77th District.

Re~tcsentativo

from

 Austin, Texas. February 3, 1919.
To theAd'jutant General of the State of Texas:
Dear Sir:
You are hereby notified and requested to produoe before
the ~egis1ative Investigating Con:mittee or to file with the
Chief Clerk of the House of Representatives the following
papers now in your possession:

1.

The reoord of the investigation made by Captain

W. ~! . Hanson of the shooting of a Mexican by the name of Garcia
and another Mexican whose name is unknown to me at Donna, Teyas.

2.

The record of the investigation made by Captain Hanson

of the flogging 'of a Mexican by the name of Hernandez on susp1o1on of stealing a jack. This flogging was done by Rangers
belonging to the company of Captain Stephens.

3.

The record of the investigation made by your Department

of the killing of Ranger Dudley White.

Very- tnily yours,

J • T. CANALES.

Representative from

~'th

District.

The above notice oame to my hands on thie the fourth day

of February and was served by me by delivery of a true copy thereof to Gen. Harley in the Adjutant General's office on this the

3 day of February at 9:45 o'clock A. M.
J. M. SNELL,

Sergoant -a~-Arms,

BILED Feb. 3, 1919.

House of

Re~ resentatives.

Walter Pridemore, Seo'y. Joint

Committee Ranger Investigation.

I

Texas State Library and
Archives Commission
'

\

 l:R.

:r

:r wjoh r.enera.1

CA"'-~Bfl:

·r~1'ley.

the le.st letter

Trrote to you of Peeerobex• 25th. 1'hcrein ! told you a.bou~ the

oomparinP.

or

P.an~ers

the

to

~ud~e G~inea

Chicken• was not in

! would like to have t~Rt letter becauae it has a ~reat­

file.

a very qreat si.q;nif1ca.noe in '!ftere.

letter- ! thjnk it in a masterpiece.

r

t.a,ke ~ree.t pt-1de in tha t
! would '1['1 Ve to ~o to

Brownsville to .q;et St because : did not oome here prep9.red- to

file these

char~es .

'have to look 1:'u up.
j

ourrl9.l ,

~t

We rn:i&tht have aent H. to some 'humorous

mi,n ao lmmo:rous.
~rn. CAJTAL.!~:

l run Sllre the Conmitt~e will enj oy

thA.t.

:·r r. Canelo!!. and 8entlemen o:f the

CHA!IDtAN B1..EDSOE :

Commi.ttee, it ocoura to ma that the last paragraph of these
apectflcat1ona or recommendations therein rnade are absolutely
beyond and not in the

co~templation

of the resolution under whioh

we ero working, at all, and we have no authority to inTestieate, or

to entertain a matter

that kind , and in my

o~

~udgment

it

shoul~

be stricken out.
SENA~OF.

1mov.•

WILL!POr.D•

In the absence of any exception I don't

"'h<.•ther 1t is necessary to take action or not.

Our author! ty

not

ia gi ~1on us in spcc1 fie terms an" we arE1Jeutbo1.. 1zed to s~v Who shall
f ill Stato offices other than i.n th& 'Ran6er i'oroe.

SENAITIOR PAGE:

The speoif1cat1on authorize the 1nv0ati-

gation of the Adjutant General ' s policy in ao far as we are investi-

gating the State
tho

Ad2u t~mt

i~fmgcrc'

General es

!\l'\

force, that portion o:r the charee against
incorrrpetent r>ereon and calling on us in

our report to ask to replace the Adjutant General is beyond our

150

scope.

! ask that por~1on of Mr. Canales ' charge be stritken out.

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 CRA!IDUN BLEDSOE:

Is there a second to tho motion as

made by the Senator trom Bastrop?

_'1:.

! ucaond it.

Tn1m;11~:

CHJ\IIUMl~

BI1lfft>OB:

It ia moved and aooondod that that

charge oado aeainst the Adju.tnnt General and the rocoJ11.1endat1on

with roferonco to his departt:lent be utricken out.
The reason ! made that chargo is this:

?!P.. CANA!,l!S:

!

have that :f.nf'ormation not only ae to the oonduet o! the I.anger

:f'oroe but ! talked to several members eo to whether lt was in tho

eoone of this

co~~1ttoe

to

eo

the roaol1ttion p'1saed, and the

through with that. They beliovod

"m.:r it

was passed f at tho request

of the Adjutnnt Coneral himself, was as broad as oould be and laid
do~n

tho fiood g3tes of liflht.

stated on the floor of tho house

his recorda.

r

T

did not want to have a eort

r waa go1nB to make spec1fio charges.

of fishing not and

that reason

I C'let htm on that question. I

demandec1 his recordn so l could base my ohu:'.'gos on ,

Els spokeamsn 1n the House,

went speoi.fio el1nrges;

~e

:!r.

Hiller, said

!m~ediately

epeci fio charges.

0

We <lon't

want an ebaolu.tely w!de 1nvestigat1on. ''

When we mErt in tho first rneet1Dt1 laat l'riday ! noticed the

Genorel

For

suggoated to the

conn~1ttee

! Sa\'' tho General• a

~'\djutant

that I ahould mako

tactlos. Ho thought ! was

going to file -- to shoot rab,ita. little rabbite here. nnd any
thie men and this,- thst is what he thoueht. I

hev~

information, y-ou will aee, from my ansr.er. that the
were responsible :f'or this transnct1.on.

up with the

memb~···s

• • • So

reliable
"hi~ber-upa"

! took this matter

of the house as to whether this oon..1ittee r-as

\vithin its scope.
CUAir~:r.A.N

llT.J:DSOB:

If you would addrose yourself as to

whether this invosttgstion. not Y:ha t the rnombeas of the J:louee think,

to t-:laking addi t1onal eharg0e age.inst th,, .Adjutant Generel as nn
ot'ftoial . and diacusEJ whether tho scope ot thA resolution es

adopted

autho~iv.ed

you making those ehergaa---

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

15t

 Absolutely; so I looked into that matter

m~. c~rATJES:

and ! believe, gentlemen, from a thorough investigation, that

it is within the scope of the resolution as 'Passed.
~ha.ir111an

would only read that resolution,- 1 t let1ves absolutely
llow if this aommi ttee deoides . to out it out then

no 11t'li ts.
I

dmn~nd

If the

an 5.nvest1gat1on of that 1f1nd.

want to find out

If this committee does not have jurialdotion

V'here I am"

that matter I
so as to put

~·ant
t~1s

of ~

,

to go to the House to pass a resolution
additional power in ·the oomm1ttee.

ts all right, entertain it.

rieht here.

r

If it

Ii' it is not I want to know

! t is through my original bill to have an

investigation of the whole matter.
SENAT0R PAGE:

Mr. Canales, have you the resolution there

that the House passed?

rm. CANALES:
SENATOR PAGE:
authori~es

No, ! haven't the resolution.

Whst language is there in the rasolution? that

sn investigation of theABjutont General's department

and to file charges against the Adjutant General that you think
would be broad onough?
HF.

CA~ALES:

The whole matter of the Ranger force is being

investigated. The Adjutant Ueneral is at the he.ad of the ilanger

.roroe. • •
SENATOR PAGE:

r understand you a.r.-e bound by the scope of

the reeolution. ! haven't it before me. If you want .to go back
to the House and ask that it be broadened so as to investigate

the Adjutant General's department I have no objection.

I do not

·think though the. t the resolution ta uroad enough.
1m. CANA!.iES:

THE CHAIR!fAN:

I think it is. It is done in good f aith.

You are bound by the scope of your resolution.

You oannot make charges againat the Adjutant Goneral in an 1nveetignt1on of this kind.

Texas
State Library and Archives Commission
15~

 135.

MR. HcUILL!N:

The question comes up whether or not he is

in fact a member of the Ranger force.

His duties as Adjutant

General are multitudinous, it is true, and being the head of the
Ranger force there is a question as to whether the head of the
Ranger force--GE!mRAT" HARLEY:
foroe.

The Governor is at the head of the Ranger

Uhen I do these things I am merely acting under his

orders.

You have to investigate the Governor if you investi-

gate me because I have been acting under his instructions. '!'hat
i a what 1 t at!lounts to.

SENATOR PAGE:

We hear all this testimony incidentally

but as far as investigating charges against the Adjutant General-;

?.m.

Hc~Urr;r,IN:

Genoral Harloy, tho 1nd1 Vi dual acts of the

Rangers, are they in accordance With the direct orders of the
Governor or your orders?
G7.NF..RAL HARLEY:

The Govornor pasaea on all mattors that

come relative to the a1soharges, When anything happens we submit
the matter to the Governor; tho Governor is consulted about it.
11R. McllI~LIN:

That might be With refere~ce to the matter of

diacharge--GENL~AL ~JU?LEY:

So far as the Adjutant General's duties

aro concerned they are merely to onrry out the orders of the
Governor.

-

The A~jutant Ceneral ~s the Chief ot Staff of the

Governor and oarries out the Governor's orders.

Re3lly, if you

get right down to it, hebls mery little disoretionary power, very
little.

My question is to e11oit information as
~o just how fer the Adjutant General mtght be considered as a

member of the Ranger force of Texas.
GENERAL HARLEY:

Only in so far as he represents the Govern-

or in looking after that--no more than ohief clerk-- that is
r eally his duties.
SElt'\TOR WILLIFORD:

•

Yhese ro-ports are all made to you?

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 GENEFt>.L R.An!SY; YO$ .:i
ic cub it""od to

G'EUEattL
fP01 !1

a.m-·tlling it?<-&inri(;.n\ f.\Oouro . 1 '\

~he t-0vo1~~ .

cmE CHAimtlN:
:i.lr;tti.l~

nu:t when

l.oft \'ti tl~

\';bo v.a.kee tho
mlRLEY~
me~

c.;pttoit!.tr~el:lttj,

~

.,,p61ntme-ato?

ncl ation oi' tbcoo -0,f'ii:taro to

tlncopt 1n r,omc 1nrrt~noo-n t ~e GoveJ."nO'-'
:t01~

a..nl;n

U.J;lpointmer.to,

t\~\d M'-r~.~an

ouer

-:a->vo!ntt110nto.

Thfi)y ~~ ~.Mr ~t'l~.:u.,y, by both of ttG, CO fu;r ~e tlle t-0vc~not OGt'l...

no11

c~tt()nd

to th.n.t

so

ff$,~ ~('} tlH'l J:r1di:~:l().1g~.l rr.n:tnbO~n

th.9Y rf.'J:~ oolootad. merot1.y b°l'

t110 foroo

of uoo.t .c;.
~'l't~

matt.a~~~

mo,

of

\'U th o-·oma o..:oeptiono

Of oou.~l~e ·tI10 Gonor.nox- mtOJ.".::~.:--en hirJ :~'.t,:1to to ooloot

r '\~1 (-bf.it lie \7e.ntu .

l r~\¥\'O thn.t t,110

tATOR IT'!P::

arc

~oting be re~:i

~ ~eQ..<\

tho

~~uluticn

"l ets..1·1 do not GOG tbat · u l:.Cl'1'0

Vf'lotign.te the .ll!.tj\tta.nt r.·an{l:ro,l .

deeie.o . 't)
THE d!A.'tatr.AU: M<1.
from Bao t :top?

\m®~~ "-1hi~b uc

aloua.

(Whoroµvon the
m~lted~

ranullu"1on

:ml!G ca"\\'

o..mr

It io tiv

fro

ti.n.d than

t;.utho:i:~:ty

the

l'O-

to in-

C¢1'amittec to

~1 <.:1t1 heiiA.~ 1;he nu1;ii011 ~-t~O'i~·

i;he SQn&to~

otftoz- mt.'ll1~r o~ tlta co1r:1nt ·tt~& o:nything t.o

oo.y?

rm.

'110\i'ELL!

Qooution ..

Tfl£ Cl~:tramu :

".31'.'.>(JO !n favor of

tlu.~

~t:

motiC"ttt

·e by tao

scnatcr ~"O ~.t kn.own b~ ec~ytne a.ya~ t~oe cont~~ v.c • - - ~et
\

o.yee have it, ;.;.nd it tc co

o~ra(t .

S;JoOU?ient!o:n l!c . 1? wlU

bo nt:dokan (mt .

';h ..t

t

i

tw~e

no

obj~ot

<:.n.

~t t\j.l

to 1nvcir,ti@::t()

·di~: \~~:tvttlee
l(

i \ I\

of

tho A~.ju.tont C.km.ernl•o Depo.:rtmont in 1no;lting the' ~I>!l\'>t~t'!J.Ont of
J

I

~

• j

:ro.ng<:)rs • but I do not thi l: thtl.t tho z.'oBolution i6i~\~ enough

to ontartain a...11 inveot1sa,t1on 0£ tho Adjutant Gane~i\l
.J •
,1

MR. OANALES:

I

I

~\\Or foroo
e.bool~ehr
., . undor

thoucht in i11veatigat1ng tl1e

aa £rom tha a.otiv1ty of it, thn.t thoy

O.l"O

\

'.

tho

control of tho AdJ'1tt'.nt Gonara.l ., Of couroe ho acta ~®i\ the Com-

Texas State Library and Archives Commission
15:l

\

 'mtlnder in Chief.

'mE mw.w~~:
· • CANALES:

tat • o pace to eo
Z

GElfP!fU\L RARLT:.::

to

ttl'.f')Wer

m. CAl!AtES~

a reply to bio

el.ca .

W.ll\7C:r ,

Hu.VO ~O\~ ~ reply tc hiu apecs.1·1csti$r-o .

'!HE tltn.!tmtJJ:

-:,111~e

~~o

~thing

I 'ha.vs ~uc • '.':GOc~ ved ~ oor~Y ,.

t h o:ira not bO.d

that• ..

~io 10 ln re.ply, ~d~Gcnm.i to ¥01.t gentlemen.

{Whol~llJ.?Gn P~· . C1J.ne.:t~a ~4=«1 hts ~oply tc t.11~ u.r:Mre~ filod by

tho Adjutant ~noJ!'al~ n.a foll QWC : )

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 Auat1n, Texas ,
Felh 5, 1919.

To tlle Hon. W. R. Ble4aoe, C,"atrman
a.nd the lf-embers o"f tlie Joint Comm1 tte
of the House and Senate to !nvesti~ate
the ~har~es Aga5nst the State Ri.n~er
Po1•ce z

Sirs:
How comes J. 7. Canales, Ilepree:•ntatived,,..•froro tlte 77tll
~. n

Dietrict a.nd

reply to tha anower filed

w.J'amee A11

Ha,rley,

Adjutant General of Texot.e on th.e 3rd Day of 1i'eb1•uar,v 1919;

ea.ya;

1.
To the first

para~raph

of hjs answer wherein the Ad·

juta.~1t

General says tha.t t"t-te matte1• compa.a.ined of in the first

char~e

was not called to his attention by me, and that ! was

derelict in duty as a ai tizen.

!1•eplied that it is ti"'..ie that

! d id not ca.ll th.ie natter to' t'h.e attention of the •-1-djuta.nt Gen-

eral , because

r

ho.d

Adjutant General to
pet:ra.ted by tY\e

becQme convjnoed of the inoapaoity of the
~jve

na.~ers.

relief to the people for

outra~ea

pel'-

or 0£ hia un1rfiJ.lin'?!ness to do so.
~dxteen th

ae out more fully in my

I

oha.rl?;e.

a.
To hi& second

para~l;'aph

of his answer wherein the Ad-

j·utant General claims that the natters complained of by me in
the second

oha.r~ed

were not called to 1'\is attentjon, ! . replied

the same ao tc his f"irst

To

tlle third

para.~rapn.

para~rapn

o1a.1mo that tne killing of
replied

th•~t

of hie a.newer wherein he

J, iza.nd:t.~

J"unoz v1as unavoidable, I

liie records 'h.sows t11at th&

killi~

'Ida.a under

•'

ompstanoe~ oonstituti~

murder in the aeoond

d e~ree,

and 1n

addition to the evidence submitted in oonnection with
cnar~e !

here' offer th.e reco1'Cl of t"'1.e

Adjutant General 's

!nvesti~a tin~

inveeti~ation

of'fic er,

ri1y

t,l'tird

made by t t e
.
Captain w. Ii. Ranson.

and whioh ! h.ere mark for identifica tion "EA:hibit

4.

oi1~

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

-w.•.

 4.

To the fifth

para~rpph

of his .answer wherein he says

tha.t be was informed by Captain C"tarlee F. Stevens. whoJb ! ad-

mitted before this investj ~tin~ oolTQ!lt}ttee that hw \1&ea ~ood
offioer, that he did not believe that the ~ngers above named
had a.AYthi~ to do wi tn the killi~ oaid Garoia and that '11.e aa-

ted under said in:forma tiort.

I repl1 ed t'r\at ·t he in11esti~at1o·n

made by Capt. lta.neon as irtvesti~atin~ orficer( &ltho~h Captain
Kanoon in h1s letter aaccmpanyin~ said inveeti~ation eeeKB to
clear ea.id re.~ers of the ona~e) 01early snows that the teru;era

and no one else could have done the murder cha~ed to ~ave been
committed.

To bis chai•&;e t'1.at tl-te Grand Jury of Cameron County

failed to indict the H1n&i:ere for the offense ! wioh to eay that
it 1s a ouotom ~Ont?; the bo11der for tho Grand Juries to refuse

to indict ~~ere for unlaw~ul. acts, and thie is the rea.snn ww
appt8'ed to t~e Adjutant G~ral for protection. and I furt~er
stated and oh.arge th.at the ldllin~ ea.id Garcia. is nt)VJ being irt. veeti~a.ted by the preaenJi; Grand Jury of Camel'On County. ·

To th.e l!'i fth (a) para.graph of his answer with. referenoe to a ohar~e made by Hon. Jolm J . 1"<>1'<1, a j:ember of the Ho us a

of Ueprese11tatives, 1 reply that ! did not know anytnin~ further
than what Mr. Ford eh.argee.
To the si?tth para.graph. of his answer ! do not think
t~ere needs any

tuevner reply, but in support of a.aid

char~e !

call t11.e attention of the Oona:nittee to "k hi'bi t J'" bei~ tl\e

.

reoo1--d of the inveetigation taken by Captain

w.

.

Wt. Ranaon, tl-te

' 29th day
imr.eati'!ati~ of'fjoer of t'1.t;)\djutu.nt General on ti'\e

ot

Deoember 1918, and whom tl\e Adj uta.nt Generu.l. 'refers

diligent and

fa~.thful

to aa a

officer. v1h:fclt 1nvesti~ation~ clearly

Gh0718

tnat eaid Hanson 4id not take the testimony of anY- r~putable '

ci t1zena \iho reside at ~n~ers other than some barbers, and
one c.Library
B. Booth,
is a watchman
for the
Texas State
and who
Archives
Commission

Prairie Tank Farm.

 Cn th.e

otli.c}~

ltand , he could have secured Ute reliable

tion from men of

.

hi~h

character and integrity.

Suiter 0tate Senator, who was Cha1rman of the
oitSzens who called

on the Governor for

I~ read1n~ t~e investigation

as~on .

info~

w.

D•

~ass Meeti~

of

euo~ inveati~ation.

by Captajn ff'aneon, th.e

Committe~

will b$ aonvineed of the effort ma.de bv 'tfa.nson to justify

t~e

action of sa.id .R!\ngers.

To the seventh

iterate my

~tatement

para.~rapli. o~

hie answer l desir• to re

made in the seventh oharge, and call th.e

attention of the Committee that bbie oh.a::ge is made solely upon
tho evidence in the possezsion of the Adjutant General , and fran
h is ovm records as filed with th.e Chief Clerk of the Rouae of

Re)):t"esenta.tivea 1n answer to my resolution

oa.lli~

upon him t o

file eaid record.a there.

a.
To the

ei~nth

says that Bentley, who

paragraph of his answer. wherein

a ~ eaulted

one Jo'hn Therm.is , a waiter of

the San !i'rancisco Ca4e in san Antionj CJ• Texas, was not a
~er

~e

~n­

at the time,. and that :r knew that this oharise was false! w'l1Ell

so stated by me, and that I deliberately and witn evil intent
mielead the con'Ql\ittee and stated that said Bentley was a Ra.n~er,

wnen in fact and in truth the said Bentley

to the 1a. te trouble at San Antonio

disclta~ed

had been prior

from the

lb~er

:ro:roe f'c)l• m1soond.uot. l ,.,; an to repJ.y trt.a.t hie own record, wh!ol\

has been introduced here ae ":Rx:hibit R" snows that on tne .5tn
day of October

c.

q. Arnold ,

Ser~eant

of the State

tioned at San Antemio addressed Ca.:ptain

Fa~era

w. N. t{anson

Sta-

wi tn · r&-

garcl to this matter as follows: "I am informed that .i6nt;?;er

w. v.

Dentloy of Ca-ptain .allis' Company of: Del lUo, Texas was in the
15~

city a day or two

a~o ,

and \Vliile at Sa.n Fra.noisco Resta.uxant

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 ar~ent

he had an

with one of the waiters and pulled his '5Un

and hit the waiter over the head. "

That at the bottom of the

ea.j d 1 etter Captaj n' J-fa.nson in his own h.andwri t:i.~ on Cctober 611.
1918 m.~de the followin~ entry:
lb.~er

service

w.

"Nill s~~eet you suspend from

B. Bentley pending the

inveati~ation,

assault

oommi t·~ed by him in San trancisa:o RCo'staurant · some day aso .
Si~ned

w.

Th.St on t'he ea.me qay • Ctober 6th, 1918 capia1 n

°Rana on. 0

?!. Hanson wired Ga.ptajn J;on Wi llis 1 stationed at Del Ri o,
11

Tex3e as follows:
ger

w.

SU'?;~est

W'ill

you suspend from service

pendin~ 111vesti~ation

JL Bentley

assault co:mrnited by him
Si ~ned ~·i. M. Ra.neon.''

in San 7ra.nci eco P.estaurant some days ago ,
!

further reply

t~a t

Haneo~,

the

Captain

not know on Cotober
t~d ,

if Seri!eu.nt Arnold of the State :rarusers and
inveot1~atin.q;

officer of the !angers did

four days after the

6t~ ,

out~e

wae commit

that Bentley was not a na.nger at the time. now could a Yem
te~islature ~et

ber of the

auoh

in~o:tfta.tion

to deliberately lie about euch char~$s .
not a

na~

na~~er

ae would make him

Again if Bentley wae

at the time . why was he oarry1nt.?; arms and pistols

in the city of San AntoniO? ! ful•ther reply
record submitted

by

thn.t there io nQ

t'-le Auj utant General ahowiru?; t'.i.t ea.id Bentley

had been disc'harged :from oervica pr:ior to the assaUlt except .
the above ine?tti oi1ed tele~ram of Captain Hanson, al thou~h. Cap-

t a in Hanson in h i s

lette~

of October 9th addr$ssed to the Ad-

j uta.nt Gene1•al says t 1·1a t nentl ey haci been di scha.r~ed from

vice on October lst, put as
thorou~hly

unreliable.

!

:r

Bel'-

find Capta:i n Manson's etatements

therefore again reiterate my

oha~~e

as heretofore · set out·.
9.
To the ninet; para~rapl1 of· t~e Adjutant General's
anawer, wherein h.e says thx Ca.ptel-i n Af!. M. Hanson h.!;l.s been a.
di1i~ent

15

ti

and faithful officer, and that he has 1nourred the

djfavor of th.e said Canales • section of tl\e country by reason
thereof l wish to reply th.at J join i ssue with him on

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

t~is

point.

 I adfni t that tlte

~id

I deny that he ie

":'/. M. Hanson is a. snrewd, amart man, but

a dili~ent

and faithful officer, unless the

oommittee wiehea to conuider

t~e word ' dili~ent

mean to cover up and protect and defend
~~e1•

\7ho are nov; in the

f'orce.

dili~ent

mean:i n&?; of the word

and faithful to

despe~te

oli.aracters

!n do1 r.15 this. if' this is tlte

and fa:t thfUl,. 1 concede .it, other

wise, ! deny it.

10.
Tb tlte tench

para~raph

svrer

vil1.ere' n 1-\e say a that my

poae

or

reflectin~

upon the

of tl\e .:"-dj\tt.ant General's an-

+. ~nth

charf!e 1o 1r.ade "for tl:te pul'-

Governo~

or Texas and upon Mr• Cae-

sar ln.eberg, ! wish to state that 1 ·daey thia instnue.tion, and
j.n further reply 1 w:l sh. t,o sta,te th:-it on sa.tul'day, .T:i.nuary 25th.
investigatin~

·oefcre th.e

resolutio'l'l was introduced :r called on

Governor Hobby in oompa.ny wi tl\ Sena.tor .T. J. St'.t"ickland and told

the '1ove?'nor then that ! vras not a.f:raid of a
~tion,

inveeti-

thorou~lt

but that I vr.ls afraid tl1at it would reflect upon his

a.dminist~ation,

and

r had

to do so, espeo1aily t?i th.
depa~1'ment ,

fa.eta in my possession whio'li. tended
re~ard

to the Adjuta.nt Oeneral and n1-3

and that as ltis friend and staunch ouppcrtar !

did not wish. to cast the el i ~hteat refl eot.ion ,upon liim or his

adminiati·at1on- and that all
the

na~er

:r '"'8"1ted

\.'19.S

the

Force all desperate cha.ra.ctero ::..nd

01eanin~
~n

men

out from

"!hO

had

.!--

committed, and ¥!ere committing, outratJes' upon th.e ~ood oiti~ens
of th.is state. and the Governor then, in the presence of Sen-

ator Strickland stated th.at he wanted the

investi~tion,

and

th.at if anyone of l1.1s appointees were not doing their duty, or

were unworthy to

disohar~e

the off1ce to whion they were appoint.

ed, that he wished to know it, or wards to that effect.

I take issue with the Adjutant General on this poit

1 ti\)

and deny the reflection na.de upon me and upon my motivee.
RespeotfUlly,eubmitted.

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 Repreaentative 77th Distriot.

FILED February 4t~ 19lg.

''!a.l ter Pridemore Secretary JGint

Committee investi~atin~ Texas Stqte har~ers .

16t
Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 136.

GE1~ BJJt~:

teo •e wtohoo

o.o 11ot

Qr;nt~n, l

:!:CC \'11th

l:nc•7 f:ha.t the Gommit-

referenoa ·o tatd.ng \Ji'l

•lould tt-!r.e \l!> one o11art;rc rJ;t

t1u·~

(1'

oltnr\aa, 1hothor

t .h¢t)O

or ~'o ~

b'U.t ! £h.1~st the.t

wo clo tn.ko one Chet'ga a.t a time and c~l.l'Jtn the evitli'ncc on tho.t
\

be~"o

.'Q

wo t".lto un a.n<,'U1ar one, u:.'\lnoe ~~:t ~ in t.he oaP-'G .Qf ~omo

r1Atnao ,

Q

,;~·ll.p a.~ ®~:o

a:~:~

·mdowa.;1b

t~avo OtimG ill y~t Ofi tlMJflG ChM'~;es •
·cn~i·.z e.ro

oo.ilOGJ."nOd.,

~fto:cr.t1.!!ds

a.~poa;r 1n .

vcey GQOO

ll;JpliOO. to t

.o

OS ®f ':ti tnp~~~

at-e

~c · ~.~oulr.1. lik~~~ .t~o~

tho

$Q :eiu•

oxe thcc.t
a.l:tVn

(;.o~m

. ·tow.o.r

.end tho m:, ·t;,t~r Qould

olll:l:rge

For int~eJ t hu.vo Col . Sl cur:

i.o

l'ih -

r.n to .'m1cii\~hey

O""\ld li ka to put

hi~ cm. -tiha

h9

Cocrnitt~

tnnd a.:nxi be\·
I

tJ.'3\Y ':Zl tnot.Hlf)~

socc f3.t to l1f.W.il!' it.

u.p~oua!ed

h0-'0 under :9:tOOCCt.> tll\,* \~ #\,
•

c~od .

hie

ta tll\l JJl.ea.eu..-oo uf thtl

ucm:

\Vi tr..eocee

••i"tg?

v.ra ~:<'\ t" or pro\~1'

,

Co:nmltt~o?

·\. \:.\
•

1,

"\
'\.

r

I

end n li.at of the r. i tnoaees m<iei·

t®l\

>tte~ s

ex. edl to

th~ ul~wgoJ

'!"t!E C1llAXRJ\!m:

\ '"

~~)l.

m.:11 tho«e '00 l.1.1lY obj(lotictn t<> hl'..O.l'i

Sl.ocu i u.t thio t~..t~)?

/".,

l

It ~ill uc at.\"~ ~:r ~rd"~* l)"..t'f.
r 1ll~ r, ....·flh

t>U~Btl<lX\

{}f

S.\t.d

Gf.1n~l'i't~1'l. !t1<•~1~ :' ~i' tlM~.i~~'
1 1

t1orl* wo trill hoatt him a,t · tbio t1me .
· lli: .ccmi.1oe, Ot\r ouggootion 10 {!01.ntt to bO

.

'·

up

\,u.te 1t

~

l.n thr1t nu..-y .

ot

of an.ob

0

At ·the

.

J .:;

pa..:r; "'Ux.."pl1, und 1et thece wt t:uoa o li~ 1'l~d ~o wo air~

~~..

,

I r.n.tgc.est :.:r. Ob 1eo 10 betto~; -O'~~n.. " \7ith

theae Clta.rt:i'¢o tbo.t c.i-e ct"tz>ti OJ.:U~-d to Al'. Win

n.na.

All

I

of youc11and 11.!' 'Who h1J.v<1 llol!n &~llll'.-d r.n1 Wh o

UR.

a:·Xl !'lt'eocnt .

I I '.\

1

•

~i.f1..t

Cllrllt"lG~ oome

hi'G~f; t e ~·s..mony in

•

11~1

no\ in

Cif th(?~ 9}1...,·1:3¢ b~aueht

Q!\G

· ..
'·
t~ . CUA!ilrWB Lot •a O.:JOc>.:tW!:n h¢"~1 ~..nr wit1v".snw~.
·• if 'tba

io

hTS!'G ""tiHr

ho WJ.n bo'"n cicl~ a~'l:. 1rf o..tru..1d

Ho Ct'~'le bG~"a With :.tei'O ~nOO 'L.:>

00.0l.. •
:\d. I

t11• t~o l

th~it· tet:i~iw.ony

Oom.'ili ttG to t1rz.vo
1Xl

one

~~rr t{i i;nod ec
'
I
\

over , VOr"i

........Ob~ea-

) \

tbll.~ ·~.' fro.ne:o thooe

chn goo in tho order that uo d.ooiro to p1-eeent th~ a;.~ got the
11itnOBCGO 1101'0

on el\Ch OpOOifiC Olm1'g<> o.nd. ll.ot 1 0

thie juat ao fa.st a.a
UR . CANALES:

GOt ~~
·. f

no oan.

sovo:ro.l of our \71 tn&saoo a.ro bOrc

1
Texas
State
and Archives
Commission
moned:i Library
t)Ut in order
to nr~.ngc
thom, you lmcr;r

\

lith

\

\\ \
t?U:it $ ho.d oum.\

how 1 t

', \

1~ !~- ~.

I

 l.39 .

oourtroom, we bavo to cornmunloo.to ttl th thom, end I>Orha.po after

hearing Ool . Slocu , if you will 61Vo mo o. fe\1 minu\ec I oo.n

prooent

t!JY

ovidenoe in a lo(!lcal and oonoioe form .
And proba.bly o~vo tlmo .

TIIE CHA:tm.wt:
UR . CANALES :

\"11th ea.oh oho.rBO I mu.ka o.n exhibit A and I vrtah

tbo.t exh1b1t to .bo eonaide'J!'Od oo po.rt of tbo oha,rtQ a.i1ct my evl-

donoe .
THE CRAIR?.!JT:

You '7111 00.vo to introdt100 lt .

oa.oh oho.rcro, introduce
llR . CANALES:

!t

in ovidonoe.

I 1'..o.va a.dd.i ti ona.l oluu:goo precontcd to rno by

the rncmbo:ro of tho houoo _.
THE CUAIRUA1H

ot th" other

Aa you take up

Do you \11oh mo to preoont them noo?

.

You hear tho ota.tcmont of Ur. Co.no.lee.

of tho llouoo

mcmbaro

111~ve

oont in -

b1

Somo

oemboro

of

the bouoo .
GENER.AL HARmltt l think tho rulo ie tho.t those ohc.rgoe ah®ld.
bO p rooontod to me

oofo:r.o t1l&Y

a.rs p:toentod.

I

ou~t

to 'be so:r.vod

rtith u. O<l/.lY of th~ fil'at .

Aro thoy in d~lioo.to?

THE OHAIRUAtlT:

tm • GAN.ALES~

Yeo • otr •

THE CHAitu!f1t:J:

Gtve

tho General o. copy of tl1em n.nd vo '1111

bOnir theo before tho Ocmm1 ttoc .

GElmRAL H.ARLE"'x :

I

ould like to • o aho.t tho Committeo•a

uioboo nro \'11th reforenco to f111ne i\lrthor ohargen.
lo.ot d.O."f on whioh chnl'e;GG
THE OH.Amt!AN ~

of' Auot1n.

ohou!~d

to b

f!lod 17; onybod¥"?

I ahoulil thin k o,ny o1t1aen, not a. rHo1dOnt

bO 0.110.Jed. to f1lo them durinc; the hetirin13.

GENERAL HARL!i.iY :

lll: ·. Co.ntJ,lOO oould rop:r:oaont

file tho oha.rgoa in

n.n endlooo

ti.t'O

lo th1o tho

the11~

tb.oao

!)SOp le eind.

name o.nd thia \1111 oontinue on ond on,

ohal~

THE Cilt1ImIAN:

I an ouro there 1ill not be a.n G.lmae of thnt

privilege .

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 Auati Y! • Texas ,
February 4 , 1919.
~o

tne tfon. W. 'f.

~ledsoa,

Chai:rman, and the members of th.e

1nveetj~atin~ Committee
toinvesti~ate o~~r~ea a~ajnst

Joint

Cont~nuatj 011

of

C1l,nz:c~s .

!,

18..

~.

E. Roberson,

did in Sierra

the Stat.e

~

am reliably

fo~

Bl<~.nca ,

Rln~er

Force:

cha.rr~e-

on :infoxmai-

,

:r . T. Canaleo , do fur.t'her

tion and belief, tnat

that

of t'l1e House and Senate

a

lon~

inf~~t"med

and verily believe

time s member of

t~e F.Jl.n~er

Fora,

Rudb:?eth Cotinty, Texas, about two and a

half years cute . unjuaM t";Jably 'kill !1. F . Boykin, a well known and
higiuy honored cattleman Qf tt-ta.t section, sn.1 d :Boykin, a.t tlte

time

.bein~

tols e.nd

una:rmed, and. t'he s:J,id Roberson

W:inol?~~{'

bei~ a.rmed

witlt p i s-

and on account of his reckless conduct not

only killed eaid Boykin but also killed an innocent bystander.

:r

do not ch.eiiY,c that at tlic v e~y t5me o:f tlte killin'S co,j d Robel'-

son was a rneml>er of' the

Ran~er

:f'oroe of Texas , but he had been

unt11 very s11ortly befox-e t°l'\e lcilliviq:. an&ttl'l.en after the kill -

iru;, and A.t, or a.bout t}\e t.:i.me of hie first conviction for
der he wao re-comm1aajoned a
Department of Texas.

ran~er by

ntul\-

the Adjutant General's

! furthe~ 01rt;?r~e th~t t~e record in said

:murder case whows tl\a.t sa.1 d Roberson 1'tad been commi osi oned e.
ran~er

t~rra .

after he had heen tried for murder at

the kill:f mi; of

Boyk~ n.

"! refer thic

previoue to

lfonorabl e Committee to the

racord of aaid mu1-d.e1• case, w'l'\1c1t can proh'\nly be obt.a.~. ned from
,;

the

Cou·~·t

of Cr:hninR.1 Appeals, and r a;Jiao ask process for Senat or

n. M. Dudley and Representative Adrjan Pool and R. E. Thomason.
19.

!,

s.

T. Canales, do further

aha~e

on informatiQn

and belief. that! am reliably informed and verily belitWe that l
1917 . one

w.

B. Sanda . a member of the Ban1;er Foroe of the St ate

of Texas , while 1n a ve'r'J int oxicated oondition, in the Conley
Island saloon a nottr1ouo resort in the city of El Paso . Texas,
did kill

Se~eant

Owen Dierne, wh.o for nearly t wenty-five years

16-t
had been an able and honored re~ular aoldi er
Texas State Library and Archives Commission
said

~ierne 11.a.v i ~

of tl\e United Statet

b een sent to sai d saloon t o quell

~ ~ isturbance

 there and to remove

certa~n

soldeil?S tli.en in said aaloon, and

sajf.l Sando , vih:ile intc•:idcated n.nd armed with. a

:piatol , did u n..

j us ti f: ably kill aaid B:torne.

!n 3Upport of . tli.in

chal'~e

! ank that process be issued

for Senator R. 16 • . Dudley , a.nd Repreaentatjve.s Adrian Pool and
R· E.

T~1omason ••

.Reepectfu.1 ly l!lubmi tted.

Reapreaentativo from

Filed

~ebruary

i nvesti~a t i~

??t~

D1strict.

4th., 1919 , Walter P:M.demore Sec'y jo!r.t Conrnittee

Texas State

~n~ers .

16;.,

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 Austin. Texas.

To the Adjutant General

of

t~e

State of Texas.
You are hereby notified and requeeted . to produGe beii-

:fore t1'\e Le~ial et ive :rnvest:i .11,a.ti n~ Connni ttee o:i.~ to file w:i t h. th.e
Cni ef OJ. erk of th.e t.Touse of' Repreeentat1.ves the followin~ papers
no~

in your possessi on:

1.

Tl1e record of the

inveet,~ation

made by Captain

·y. ~ ... •t'l.nson of th.e sh.oot:i n~ a Wexican by tlte r..ame of Gi..1•c i~ and

anct11er 1.fexica.n whose name is unknown to me at Donna, Texas .

2.
Ia.neon of the

The reoord of

t~e inveeti~ation

Fl.O&Sttin~

~ex i oan

of a

euepicion of stP.al:i n~ a jack.
bel Ol'W'1 tw,

by

Captain

by the name of "lernanclez on
flo~gin~s

done by

!b.n~6re

to the cQmpany of Capta:l n Stepnena..,
3.

partmen~

Tl-tis

ne.de

Th.e records of the in'Y'esti~ation ma.de by your De-

of" the ki!Llinu, of R:l.n~er J:>ud1ey \~ni te,

Vecy trtl'ly yours.
____'1..!.T..!. .Qa.naJ.e.§. ___ _

Repr esentative from ?7th District
The above notioe came to TrfY hands on this the fourth
da.~r

of i?'ebrua.:cy an<~ '•,ra'.J ee1~ed by me by <lel ivery of a ti~e oopj"

thereo£ to Oen . ~al:"ley in th~ Adjutant GenA~al's Office on this
the 3 cla.y of 'J'ebruary at 9: 45 o' t:loo'k A~ M.•

- __ ,l.•_N4

~n..§ll•-

..... ...,. ,... _ ·- __

Ser~eant-at-arms R~use

.

of Represent-.t,ivea!

FYI.ED Februa.:ry 3, 1919, Walter Pridemore, Seo'y J'oint Committee
inv est1~at 1~

Tex.i.s State

R:l.~ers .

16b
Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 CCJ.10NEL H. J. SLOCID'.

l?iret havin~ been duly sworn testified before the
committee as follows.

EXAM!Nl!!D BY ADJUTANT GENERAL.HARLEY.
~Your

name is Colonel H. J. Sloown, js it not?

A Yes eir.
Q Please state your rank and official connection at this time

with the Army oolonel?
A ! am Colonel 13tb Cavalry command at Ft. Sam Houston.
~

w~ether

State

or not wbthin the last year you commanded the

post at Brownsville. Texas?

A Yes , l commanded the Brownsville District from Brownsvi lle
to above Roma, •
~

I will ask you if while

eervi~

to come in cont•ot with the
A

down there you had oooasion

Ra.n~er

Foroe?

Yes, 1 did.

~Will

you mind

statin~

to the Commjttee what your experience

was, whether or not they co-operated with you in the enforcement of the laws

r

A

They

~

I will ask you whether you,

d,d.

Hanson of the

Ra~er

w~ether

or not you knew Captain

Force?

A ! d1d.
~

State whether or not he performed so far as you know hie
duties as an officer?

A He did.

Q ! would like to ask you

w~ether

the border with reference to
~ood

t~e

or not the conditions on
enforcement of the law is

or bad?

A Well the Border always has been more or less troublesome.
~

Yes?

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

I

 A And the enforoemont of tl'le Federal Law, wlt1olt wae my duty,

and the enforcement of tli e State :r...aw wore ·separate and d1 ee
t~not

ma.ttera. · ! ha4 noth1niJ to do

enforoernent of the Fed$r<:Ll

law.

w~th

wh~ol1

anyth1nq but the

wae at timee violated,

especially the lawe of .Neµtra11ty , whioh waa the ma1n o"bjeo.v

ot .m.v duty tl-tere

Q, W
he tliere neey

w!tl\ the 6 or '1000 men ! had.

violations of the nuetre.11 ty laws durin~

your tenure down

t~ere?

A Constantly.
~

By whom were they violated mos tly?

A Well tl-tat wae done
r~ver.

the

T~at

by

all olassee of people wlto lived aloni;

was not confined solely to one

e~de

of tl\e

r1ver.
~

Cne nor tho other?

A C:lne to tlie 0th.er.
~

r

w~ll

aek you •hether or not there was

tlter.t any
A

dur1~

your tenure

pro-~erma.n propa.~anda?

Con~1dera.bly.

Q, Cons1derably?
A T1iat was my main anxiety for tl-\at year, from J'anuary 1918 until lTovember 1918 . under the inetruotione of our novernor

to be part1culnrly concerned and aotive in euppreeninq proOerman propa~a.nd&.
\

~ !

tl\~nk

you stated there were also

1aws• mnw:r.~lf~·wae

A

!t

had been

~o1ng

there a.

~ood

v~olatfons

denl of

of t,,e exmeption

amu~~ljn~?

on t,,ere ever sinoe t,,e river flowed to the

Gulf.
~

Been

~oin~

on there cons tantly?

A Yes o,r.
Q.

:r

•1111 ask you it you reoe!ved any

or did tltey oo-opeeate v1th you .:in

a esiatance rrom the
endeavors~

Texas State Library and Archives Commission
160

Ba.n~em

to check. German

 propoqanda and vSola.t:tone of tlie l aw ot neut1'611ty and viola--

tiona of

ex~tion

lawa?

A They <Hd.

q ! w1ll nuk you 1.t you CGlled ·on tli.em any time und whether or

not they aaeieted you?
A l d1d and they did.
~

Did they &lwaye aeeiet you whon called upon?

A Yeo o:i r .
Q.

We.a tl\eb work tn oonnect:fon w:ttl\ your department aatietaotory?

A Ent 1 rely so.
~

l will ask you

tr ,.ou received

any aoo1etanoe from local author

jtioa down there?
A

~'liat.

do you mean b.v looa.1 aut'i.or1 ti es?

q ! mean

t~e Sher~tfta

depar.tmont and the

Oone~ablee?

A ! llad no opec1al relattono w1 t"1 them one way

~

Cur

rel~tiona

were fr!endly

'~

called upon

t~e S~er1ff

enoug~.

Ol' tl\ e

ot'-ler.

but I do not recall

l\av~

or the Conotable to-

To asa!at you at any time?

A No no more than to look after Soldiers \flu> m!Pht get too

muc~

meecal .
~

! will aek you !f you came in contact with Capt. Haneon-I b0'!-

{

\

l!eve you mentioned it?
A Yes s!r.

q, :rs it not n fact that Capt• rra.nsen nnd all otlier
ed Sn tta.rmoey w1th

M~ere

work·

your der,artr:if)nt there e,t all tim ~?

A Yeo air.
~

Djd you

~n

your experience down

tlie~

know ot any

Ran~er

t1'\at

~!aconduoted ~!meGlf?

A ! did

-not.

Q, rlould you mjnd stat:fn~ tthat

you know of Capt. !-faMon• s

lawlesaneee down tllel"e and pro-Germa.niem on the Border?

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

att~tude

 A A1l that ! obeened. ot Ca.pt. rta.noen• s work there i1ae with an-

ef'f'ort to entorce t1'te law. not only the State 1 aw but tl\e i'ed·
era.1 la.w.

I satt no oooaeion where Capt. lf.aneen wue in th.e leaet

b!t derelict in
qr~ et

ltold no

carry:fn~

out his o:rdore and 1-\e aseiot$d me.•

l'

for Capt. ttaneen at. all but am simply stat1 ~ t\\ e

tacts 1n the oaee• . rrovt aa tor Pro- Gernan, ! th1nk t11at ! pro-o

bably at eome eeferal t1mee

sen about t1'\e
confer Tdth
~

p~Gennan

~!m 1

~d

oocau1on to talk to Capt. Han-

propoJJancla and at all

found h1e

will!~

Rjs attitude was try1rur to oreate a
der ttae it net and to

enf~~••

t~mea ~en

did

l'

nese to co-operate with me.
~ood

teelirut on

t~e bo~

the law?

A Str2ot1y.
Q,

no yllu kno\'1 of any oaee dovm t'tere wh.ere the R an~ers perpetrated

any

outra~eo

aqa.in&t th.e

C~t~zene

at any time?

A ! dod not.

Q. Ho\1 long

A ! first

to tl\e border in the catarina Ga.rota revolution

~cnt

30 yeal"o

you been on tl\e border?

~ve

~t>

aa a I.teutene.nt and wae etationed at Cal!neno.

just above Roms., and then I have been on t,,e nol'Cler ott and
on ever.

El Paoo. tared o. Columbus and Brownsville.

e~ noe-

ooneSdetablo 1nt0rcourae tt1 th the
!

i,ad thom 1n

rrw

Force trom Laretlo

camp at Ealineno in 94,

when Ute Catar1na Garcia

~

na.n~er

a

~reat

!

will aek you if the

campa.i~n

Rad

as well ae

d~wn.

:r remember

was on and ! depended on tltein

deal.

na ~er

'Force are any woroe tl\9.n

t~ey

were

'n 1hooe daye?

A ! don't
Q,

t~ink

so.

trave tlie1 improved arwf 1n tl'le laet few yeare?

A tie far as J kno\1 they are about the same
Q,

Tlte same clano

or dlen.

efficient body

or

men

Do you know a.eytli:!ntf wit1\ reference to

tho Adjutant Ganaml'o policy

touohf n~

upon tl\e

Texas State Library and Archives Commission
17U

Ra~er

fHtuai-

I
~

 t5 Oll down tliero? .

A Sometime a.tto the Adjutant General \n'Ote a letter

w~ich

in connect1cn with a ma.n'o caoe• . na.m«t Fox or

11o~ed

wae pub-

c~

Q. .Fojt.

A

~Capta.!tJioow~ioh bro~t

frcm mo a letter to

expreeajn3 ttJY

h!~

adndration o.nd approval of tlte policy ae outl:tned by Gene1'&l ..
in that Fox caee.

~r.u.rley

:r

e.n«l Y.taa told :It was h ere.

asked for th.at letter downete.tre

Gene:ral

~nrley '

e "i'ox letter and my

\

letter to Oeneral lla.rtey wherein I e.xpreesed myoelf' for t'he
v~ewo

a.a expref.HJed by 'farley 1n t"tie l"ox Letter 1ftere reoo'Stlieed

and co.rri ed out. if thoY were tl\en never would be any question

aa to

and dee!re on

t~o ~ntent

teat th.e law.ab1dirur

q,

t~e

part of the

lbn~ert.J

to pro.

That lotter 1e h.ere somewhere.

oit~zene.

D!d you o.t any time attend the masa meet!WJ of.' the citizens

nrownevtlle proteatjtuf

n~~1net t~e

reniova1 of tl'tc

ot

l\an~er fo~oe

from. that eeot1on.

Al' don•t recall t'f.i.em.
meeti~e.

! don't remember.

l'

wae a.t eevet"al mase

oo called• in nrownav!lle, in the early part of

t~e

year 1918, wlten tli,fMlS looked kind ot bad e.loru; that ri.ver• .

ncrma.n

~ropo~anda

was threateninJ? and it waa not

tell hou fer $UCeeasftll that would be.

my rrovernment were to
Q, Tli ere

~atoh

out

t~ o~

1,
\

Q.

You h.nd ll

or

them in qr

ot them !.n your

A Yee. that ic
by

throWJl'\.out that sec-

of the country:

A "! th1 nk 1 l'ta.d 11
~

from

;Fee1i nq enqendered 4lO!U!

work.in~

the !?-order and pro-<Jerma.n u.11ente

1nst~ctions

to

that.

fo~

~od 4eal Ant1•Amer1 can

was a

t'Y

pose~ble

t~ese

~a~

~a.rd

houoe.

house?

enelJ\Y a11ons, Germans

a~d Auotr~ane ,

pUt the•

the Department of J'uat!oe however.

~Did you

liave

occas~on

to catclt any trexioarin down t.l'tere 1.n

oo~

\

nect1on with

t~at Anti~Amerioan

and Pro-German

171
tr. : Archives Commission
Texas State Library and

Prc>~nda-

.

do

 you

reme211b$1''/

A I do not

remembe~.

Q. ! vdll aok

you it you knovt Ur. Cane.lee· tl'tGt

ll'~eo at Browne•

ville~

A ! do not remmnber
~

Did he

~er

~im•

come to you and offer any asoistanoe of any

~1nd

durj n~ t~io wa:r to itelp you to keep down Geman Propaqanda?
A not .t lia t ! remember.
~

And Anti•Amer1caniem down there?

A Not that 1

reme1nber.

Q. Do you tl'li nk

~t

~~e1~

Boroe

as an oft!oor ahou44 eo tar ae you

~now?

ttioul.d be a qood idea to Nmovo tl\e

from ti-ta.t eeot:t on of the oountry'l
A ! do !'lO t•

A Yeo air.
~ D~d lt$

conduct

~imoelf

A So rar aa ! lau>w.
~

Did he gi7e you asajtanee and oo-operation at all timee in t"tat
\70rk?

A \'lhen ! caJ.1 eel upon lrl m.

ct capt.

llrl'?l-rt;.i.. ! don• t beliet!e he \7ae there dur:inq your timo'(

A ! have IJOt Stevens aild Wr:Jqht mixed up.
~

1ri~ht \'T&O

oatne

j

at Rio Grande Cjty.

! don't suppooe Capt.

Witi~~t

n oontact w1tl\ y<>u va4•y mucl\ because '1e r1aa fartl't ~

~P

t<tie ri,re1•?
A The Ca.pt. at t"ert:ed~s , wltat wae '1:ls name?
~ ~'hnt

vras Ga.pt. Stevens?

A Otcpliene, Yee.

.

"

Q. ?l'rorn the aondi tion of ti-at country
led~e

17~
Texas

down tltera and your 1tnt>•

ot 1t. colonel do you think that it is possible for that

Country to be

~a.rded

properly by a snnll force ot men

State Library and Archives Commission

O!• Ci.

 lar'.fe force ct me1ir-1e 1t neceosary 'to have a J.al.'qe force ot
lbn ei·u tl\ere?
A

Well t~'l.t <leperidG upon wlmt the oondi ti one a:re aox-o-es t".i e

river.

q, ! l\ave reference now to otea.11WJ and
!'eference to evasit>n but to

steal.i~

emuqql~~l

don't l1ave

s~~l'jru,r

and

and band1t-

'l"Y there; Do you t11inlc you can ha.v• too many off'-ero there.
I

:Sn

othc~ ~vords?

A No.

C., You oannot?
A Tliat is 1£ you ''Ant to otop all the raeoal!ty

Q. Ga.pt•

1

ttu1oen n.e ·a man.- do you know with

tliat 1& ~01~ on

your experience witl\

h1rn-uould you fa:flf)d. atat:lni; your opiniem ot '!dtn aa an of'.ticer
and a. man 7
A ! bave al"JIQ.ys found ca.pt• tla.neel') on to ltio job, doinq \tie duty
do5~

it fait~tully.

Every t1me

lm.d oocao1on to ~o to ~1~.

and ! went to him evei'Y time he v.tas in town to find out what
Vta3~iq on e.nd to qet 1ni'ol"ll'IO.t1on from liim

and 1 f neceaear.Y to

call on t~e na.rvJers throui$lt ltSm for aeo,etance in runnin~ dovn
tl1e bad elements and hs was already. he v1as allwayo :1.'$ad7 to
ase~st

in

a~

'i,r&y

lie oould.

·re 'know tl-ie people and 'know the

l&rutUatle end knei1 tl-ie mexica.n and the cuetome em kneTt t'rie

country. tar better
q Are you familiar

t~an

wit~

the

! did.
~~n~

R!i.noh Colonel?

A ! ha"O'e been the1-e. .

q l.>o you t~ink t~at it ie qood po11oy or bad polioy to station
a number

or

ra~19:rs

there to protect that eeot!on

or

t'l-te oou.,,..

t:ry?

A Well for the oa.me reaeon-yee- for t·1 e aanr a 7eacon ! ptat tztoopa
doVln on the Fipc1' :plantation.

At tl'1e tj:ree the Ce:t!lf;Lns propo-

ognndc. was on, when 11e ~el"e 1nvolved in t"iD.t ~re&t wa.s, wao not

Texas tlState Library and Archives Commission
17;j

 a.blo

)uo

tell 1m:it

ri~er

plislt anrose the

a nd oa.ttl e a.nd
e~dera.bl

Oe:r.nnn '.\nfl.ueoe would be able to aocom-

.:the

:l.nd the neoess1ty for ~ett:iru: 1-l'orsea

foodt=Jt~ff ao~ao

the l'jve:r

e oonoidei-ation a.na 1 placed a

·l!ipcr ;t;lanatation wlt;ieh is :t1et1'\t

atealinq nnd
.ti:lnch. for

aturt to

amu~~11n~

:t do not
r~vei-

nerose the

mow

~.reat

driven acroso

onoe

t~ ~e

e.nr1 ! -ml8

we

1:~·~

~~d

:r

but

dSd not

\'!Orllt

a body or

retttlln~

~eber~.

t11 1':'r~,

:r~V'ilr

wl\ere

i,av~

!

know that at

troops under Cener:i.l Bullcok

l tl\1nk. to eee if l oould not

a o>m.11 detachment on 'f..'1 a 10 rut Ibnolt.

:! made t.hat Nquest or t'te'

conima.ndi~

Gen5l and he told me .

t1'te troops to spare and it was not done.

Q. Wore you in that i3Got1on oft.he country at tt-ie time of thG

rat4,

t~e

t"tat

w11ei-e our enem:f es were at work.

:rjver for tt'litt·, oa.me purpoae.

:put R'1t:tuJ.n.r T:roopn

not

t~nt P1~er

quantity of cattle and hol'8ee that m:lalit be

asked by Mr.

ti1at rre 4Ud

oo~

:river :t>eoauoe tl-iey we1'e

No\1 it might bl) said th11.t ra.rtltar back f"itom the

tltero was a

ot'

of troops ort tlt•

~uard

tl-tG

1nt\~ter

acroso the river cattle from

'1~'\3.t pu~ose

~o

on

a

W:'le

ra.jd en the

no~iao

lnnoh,

t~Gt

wo.s !n 1915.

th~

?Ior1ae
lo · er

Ir! n~ Rlnc1\'l

A

~o.

there Tta.e a raid on tie ranoe there in

ia.

Q. That tm.o the Biot Re.nolt.

no

A :El\st Ratic"1?

! dt)rt* t know anyt)l,nt,t about the

ror!ae fllnolt.

<i ..]) you know anyt.'°li nq about the c1'mrn.cter ot men ,.,'°lo M<Ie tl'le
l"llifl on tl\ a

~tult ~nol'l?

A lTo, <;nly w'to\a.t ! .b.9.ve been told .

Q. You do not lc:now

t~:lt t~ey

came no:roae the

r~ver a.n d

J.'G.YlC"1?

A ! don• t know.
Q. r.tow 1onq "9.ve you been 'n the United StateaArmy?

A About Jl'l ye.arc.

Texas State Library and Archives Commission
174

ra1d.ecl t*ie

 at present•

4l

lll~

! eee

CA?-11il ES':

t:com

t'h.a queet1o nn o.skcd by tne

tant Genora1 tliat he s.ttked t'1e

w' tnesa abou:t liia conduot ae

Adjutant Gen<:ira.l. :In t'1ia TIU3.tter.

:r

t~1e

A.dJu... ··

Co:mnittee .lo not e;oing to

1 th.out.?ht t'l-w.t
oona~der ~'1e

·

l1ae out out. ·

'l.'itneot• aons:Ider

t"1e ev!dence• ..,. w111 not crosC"!'exandne thewitneee on ti1at ma:t-

ter.

mu1:nn:AN Btm>soni 14r. Cana1·eo, so t"o.r as his conduct or
l\is ordero v:i th .reference to the retention of men down tlle:re
or

thenana~em~nt

conduct nnd
~vopa~

the

of men on the border, with reference to h1e

t~cir

duties na

offic~alc

! think it would be

~

inqui1>y, but ae to hiG titneoe for Adjutant Gene1Ul. and

eu.~~eation t~..at h~s

lec ted, we

~tf.Ve not~i n4

off1ce be vauated and another ma.n ee-

to do

w~ t~t

t'li.at. ·

r'n. r.A 'tA.:U~: Q, Wlien you we:re nta.-ti oned 1n Browr1ev11l.e
whcm did you reliev$.
A I trsnt 'Lo
Q. Whom did

~1~ownoville

the 2nd of J'a.nunry, 1918.

~"ou

t~ere·t

relieve

A Relieve Colonel Jfeddi i~ton.
<};

Do you remerr.bel' \1..,o wc,a there before Colonel

A Colonel Steir
~

WS.$ t~ere.

Genera.1

Y~rton.

"teM~ nq;tcn?

General

Park~r.

And Colonel Blockecm?

A Colonel Dloc'keoni.
Q. Colonl)l

:n1ookso111 1n 1915, he via.e

r.nd then. Parker l'el ! cveu by

i~elieTed

Gene~l

by General Par"l{er

ltox·ton and General JJorton

i·e1 ! eved by Colonel Sayern and. Colonel Say ors relieved by tl'le
Guut.be~n

you juet mentioned, and then you reliwed lt:fm- ia

that a fa.ct?

A ? think eo.
'

Q, You don't lmo1.1 c.ny <ti11 ~ l1.:J.d ha.ppeMd there prior to

175Texas State Library and Archives Commission

.rn.n-..nry

 •

2nd,

11'18~
9~

A Up to

<4

~"11.~t

a.nd 95.
t~ere'l-

iu ·..tp to 1911• 15 u.nd 16 • you uere rt<>t otationed

·

A iro. 7 ·waa in !tQw Uex.ioo .
Q; You don• ·c. know a.bout t1ie ~ettinan Propoganda t'liat ·took place
dur~nf.€

191? in c!un-l where in 1 o~operate~ with G·en ~x-a.1 i!o~

ton nnd whe1·ein we

do you know

oa~itt ?

anyt~i~

Pr:lestu a.ml that whole a.f!'a.iJ:•

about tnat?

G!'N:Ent;J.. '!AP.l»Zf: · ! r Colonel Slocum hs.e not been l\are !
ou~ht

dont t t'1.ink l!r. canalefl

ne

ment, t1'\at

did

t~eao t'lj ntf:S •

not know anyt11inr& sbout it.

atrirmative

~orm,

to be allowed to nuke t't1ie state-

:r think

W<lO

not tl'\ere lie doep

He 1o puttinq hia Q\lcetjona in the
t~1nk

and ! do not

Trt1: Cft/.!?J~UJ:

! f 1-:ie

it ie

admi~aable.

thie QXa.tnirll~tion ou~n.t to be 11tn1te4

to 1r.n.tt.l!.L"a wit'l1in the tcnowlege of tlt\:10 wi·tneas.
S:'. ~.: Ton r-AOt!:

l make tliirJ et~Qeet1ont General lfartq ask-

ed Colonel 01.ooum it
in

runni~l$

nr.

down German

Ca nil oc had vol1.mteered ltia

Propo~a.nda.

o~r:ioE)s

"! t'l11nk on Crose- e..."'tatr.i na--

ti on he may a.sl'-•

Gl'mBHAL ·rARtEY:
T~u::

c·t\ !ro.';1tm

! will waive Ute
! do not

objeot~on.

'!l.nt to bem1aunderstood, but !

t11.:ink t he crot:s... e:mm1 nation ol-\ould be 1im1 ted to t'"le t~me !n

111'.tiolt Colonel Slocum wao in oha.rqe

aelced

th~

witraeae ao I reoa11M i t

t.~iore i •1'. Ca;~leg

llad ten64red

'h~m

jcut1on and! th1nk it would\>$

t1ree.
j

l simply want

~Y

l"Ul1~

ecti o ns but ! thjnk it would

ot o.ftira.
duri ~

Cleneml 'Tarley

t'ie t'me 111J

! l'tave no o~

1-\is oervioea.

leq~t!n-.a.te

inquiry

uneratood•

t~at

b~

pertinent end a

\'t~e

du.~J~

ti.mt

! have no o'bprope~ ~nqu1ry

to OWl3-.examine with reference to the time that tlte witneao
wa13 intarro:jated about o..nd ia oho\1n to ,'lave been in
tl1o post, but "c.o

pe~it a.sldn~

oha~e

o:f

queat1ono about na.ttQi"S that

17tJTexas State Library and Archives Commission

 tl-\e witneeo sayo '1e· did not know

or and.

of oc!our:frut one Y~l.~ or two yeari;s
t~~

direot

G'.ll&m~nation,

s.s~~·on

J do

not

Wl'J...L!POR.t4 ! bel.i

oould. not l\a"te knovm

prior to t~e time ot>-vered · by
t~1n~ t~at

etu :r

it would b$

prop~.

un-our undereta.ndinq; is,

are prooeediru; here ae nearly ae ' pra.oticable under
of the pl"Ooedu.re of iJjatr.f.ot and Count)' Court.

t~o

we

:rules

lt.o 'J unders"tand

it wider a.11 the rules l!r• Canales would l\ave the ril?"it to &l10l't
~lty

lte had not made

sue~

offer ot

that he uas not there

~elp,

or ooul ct ahow-•

:r

l'n. CA1Tl\ LBfU
tltou~h

n•t

he waen•t

don't kno\1 w'hat the Colonel knowo even

t}iere~

Jtowever if the Colonel oays \to does-

lcnOVI anytl\:f~ about it 'J WOUld take liif.J WO~ to be tr~e

beoau~•

! know any

member ot the Un! t ecl utateo

stancli r¥; his wori ie absolutely t:ru.. :r never
!fir.t:; CHA.:rm,fJ\N:

! \VO\lld D-e

Alri11nt.

Arrrry in l\i~~

baol: ot t"ta.t.

~o

~lad

to l\ea.r fl'Om

tlie conmi ttee ae to whether t't\e orose- examt nation snouid ex•

tend asto time

ot~er

was otationed at

tnan

t~at

SN '4tTOR PAGE:

t~at

covered by the time

t~is

witneoe

post.

T11:1s Yli tnesoon

by General ifa.rl ey wnose ui tnese he

t1'reot

1••

examin..~t:lon \1as a.eked

if Jir• Ca1al es, t.h.e pro-

aeouthl8 mtneee we mi'$1'tt call ldm in tllie mt:ttor, 1'\ad ever

been to him and' SW?g$eied to ~im that ~e would aaoi$t bim in
runnir.tf? dOl1n Ge~ Propoqa.nda. and h.e said ~ \'tad not.

Canales a.eked 'hitn tl\is one queet:f on and oa:td dSd

yf>u

Ur.

know or

do you know tlla.t dur'.'lnq the time of il-le offjoer w'l1o eened ther

before lle did tl-\at 'he went to him and

Geritlan

propo~andas.

thinlc he

ou~ht

to

~o

ri~ht

1 think he has a

\mat tl'te answer of' tl'te Colonel would

farther

th~ lvt.d.

be !

t~an t~at

run do'Wi\ certan

to aek

t~at quaet~cn

do not lcnou

l do not

jn the field of specu--

1a.tion and t>tat is tl\e only quenti on 1'\e can answer.

17Texas State Library and Archives Commission

~'hat

woUld

 be tror vierr.
Gf.n'EiiAL ftA..~~ElC

!

obj ~ot to any

queot~.on t'1...~t

go ea beyond

:tho ltnO !leULJe ·Or t'lia .w:Ttneoe• t\'ta.t ~eG to vthat tnis;"!it n:l.Ve l\np...

w\.ten lle '.\'tao not t11ere.:

),1e·1~d

! ul'>Jeot to tiie <lll'1ot:ton 011

«i-ound. th.il.t it clo1Ja not specify t1ie

Jr.att~~

that

w1 t'h1n t'1$ knorvlediJe

cf the witness .
T'1E

C~!m

:\lr.L

! ::--..m

~<J1ng

to aa

t~at t~e

examination be

uo lirnj ted• but in order .t o aa.ve titm go a.l-tead with your qul!S-.

tjon.
(Laet qu.t3at:ton ;read n.s follo "'
G~nnan

Propoga.12:ln t ._,at toQ k place

Optf rated V'1 t""t

General

1

)

~n

,.

You don't 'know abouttlte

191'1 in iTune wl\en 1 co-

l~o;rton n.~id \1'he:ra~ n :tG cnu~ht

47 p:i..•ieata

in th!i.t \'hole affa.i~do you lfno...-1 anyth:lno; :ibout t'!1at")
Ca.n you a.11swe:r thrit?

A

:r

do not.

Q, (:By Cana.loo) Yoi.:~r jntell!~once off~oe1· was Capt• :rtarrieon?

A

Ye~

air.

A Under
~

Yeo.
all

me.
!p :it not a. tact that it wae customary to refer to l\1m

t~ose

matters for

A Yea; ancl a;sair T
my

nct~'9'~

~de

1nvest~~tion?

.nome !nveot5ga.t1ane myself, but he was

man in ct1arge

or

t~e 1nte11i~ence

department.

Qi l:C:>w ~·ou have a.nnwered that you e.'luttllt 7 1 t'11~ r th1n1: i tt.v

rm,s 7 GerrilG.nt a?1d A.1u~tr~a.ns , you "la.d them j n t."1e l°'rUa.rd ..1ouee

f'o r

Propo~ndaj

! tl'l:f ntc you '1a.ve •'ll.neiwered, 1 tl\1 n'k you ~ad at

one time 11 0$rmann and Autriane 1n

t~e

Gual'd

~ouoe

but

t~at

they we:t.'e axraated by· tlt e Department o-t J'uotioe- you mean tli.e
tr11S 't.ed States !>spa.rtmertt of
A

1 7b

Just~ce.

not

No.

Q, ~fow lon~ have you i<novn C:ipt• rfa:rison~

TexasAState
Libraryorand
Archives
Commission
I.a.et Sp~i~
last
sunrner some
t1me .

t~e ~rffBre?

 Q. Dzrd you knc-.1 1-l:im p1•ior to tlia.t time'l

A ~efcre tl'.tat t~mc?

Q. Do yau know \:/nether he r:ae a ttetlret eerv.i oe man

ot General

Diaz, President of ?.ter.:too at t'l-\a.t time?
A ! do not.
~

Do· you 1:now vr11ether or not 'he ®a an a.ot1ve supporter in 1917 ,
! think,

~ll alor~ ~wnpioo?

A r do not.

q, J)o you bhow t1hcn

he eas a.rrectcd. by the

l,exic~.n Aut~1or5til:7D

and expelled on accounting of 'beil"J;r a.n undea:irabl. citizen
0 ..'j ~e;::i CCI°?

A ! clo not.
~

'l'he fact tha.t you wei-e aoqua.fntecl, t'ti.at

worked on come opocifio

Q. Yee Do~~cr oond! ti ono.
you re.meinbe.r

A

!

meet!~

mtttJl'D

~o

rn01•ely 4asu.al and h.e

of neutro.1 !nterstJt t11t'h

You naid you did not 'know r11e.

Ne

o.t t\-\e offjce of

J'f1.l'l'!~o

r~

Don't

n. ne11rtl

have been in t'i.at ortico many tSmon.

A lJo you rernerai>er t"te e..ppoi11tment of J'am13c n. Welle-! called them

to Dee nim on .a pro!'eus1 onsl ID9.ttcr of law o.n<l • you

we~~

t here

am.l ;,.e intt·odu<Jed me to you?

A ! tlo not.

1 wia'l?.

:r did.

Q. You <l:!:'e a. fri eril to ;ri:m !3. Wellu, ti.re youi'?

A Yee oir.
Q. \V-ttat ao!'t o

a

JD?...n

!a he?

G.ElT.:.."l\.\L 't!A!lLr!'f:

C.entlemeti. are ne

.. mx·a.oter i!l iooue •1cre?

:r

~ 1ng

to :put 3tim Welle

l1'0Uld l 1l<e to kno10-we ltave lots o:

Texas State Library and Archives Commission
17H

 tion on !t, on

tn.~t~ .

'!ty Pll).';POSC ~s t'>tiDt J'ud«e \l/ell8 i~ a

U!i. CAJ."'J>..t,:!'S:

mem-

ot

. 'her of t11e State Council cf l>etenoe a nd "ie also 'ha.cl <:'hal.'ie
:r:urm 1~

d.cwn German

l?.ropo~ntla.

. v er-J norvoue about ms

'.!:he ~entl.~n Deema to be

a41d~ th~£

quout1on but 1 tell him !!

he oto.yo colleotoo and oon1pooed ! will bring thio out aJ.r!s;ltt.
Gl·:"' EH.'~t r!l\ttt.:u:
~l~d · to ~car,

':'tiat i a a.l:'CitJnt l! r. Ca.rinleo. :t would bo

fa~

as

au! wn

conae~ed , !

woUld be

~lad

to

hea r it•
! do not soe at t'1:la t:hnu llow Jim Welln

T•r.c: Cltf\.!rn.:A1i :

repdtat1on au a

~un,

tion and :in the

:inveut~~a.tion

1~ n.

c ....i UiJ.,T:!n!

or a citizen !a involved in

t~is ccnn~~~

oftbe lbntfcr force.

"te is a n1a111ber or the

St~,te

Co\lnoil or De-

.f:enao. c1~re&ed wi tll· the very ma ·vtere of o~erlook.1113 alo~ on

t'1e oo,1ntl.".Y and

bei~

well known, abou.t th1!l

propo~a.nda.

and ""' t>\

t11e co-opex:l h:fon of the Sta te Governement, we f.j;enera.lly "leld
rnar--3'. co11feret1cel3 alons;
~entl eman.

line and '! \'•iel\ Lo prove by the

t~i s

because l nad

~im

si.imnoned l1JYB6l£, !

njm

consult~d

a nd ~ave h:im nd-:-ice and ~nformation nbout t'1:le mattGl."• and to
eho·4 \V'lY ! did not ace the Colonel ! knmf the Colonel T.ta.D f'r!erMi

ly ~it'l'.l Judge ''.'ell:iJ zr,d l 'knew J'udtie ·~·ells m.>ulcl ~:ive my info~

mation to h.ir.a.

!s
c mrgect

~~e.1nst

Ve.El t:l (!ata :It?

t~ere

any speo1f!c aot or a miaoonduot

J'im Welln thu.t

j·~ ~s

neoeaou:ry for us to

j;)ot

·

"TI. CA:rAL1m;

ilr. '(..t-.a:f :rnnn )' am anowe:'dnq

tlte

question and

i m3:f uua.tion made by tlle answe~and the qui:eti ono ort~e General

that I hRd net,

althou~h

a member of nv district, had nQt

OO!oop

era.ted witiiie C)ut'-:ior:ft:iee in ntV d:fetrict in running down
German P1•opoganda..

! a.m te' 1ing you :'!'hy ! did not '12ve to

t itc Ccilonel becauEe 'l-ie wan

j

n close touoh. wi i.l\ men

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

w~o we1·~

- - - -==---=-=-~=-

sc~

 you und&rstand. that

pr.opoo~t1on1

!.

'l''-IE C'l'A~R!h\"H

unde2'."nto.11d . it to say tlK~t I mu f!&Oi~ to

ove~l'Ula tt at t~'• \1me. 'n-i~o Cnr~11tte cnn ov~rtule ~e 1f it

see fit.
all

or

t1
t~e

Y(m dt'>n't. want no to ~ttql1i~~ ·~nto tlte reputa.ti'on ·ot

t11e @Od oit!zen.'l of the Dl'O\YnBV1l,.e Count:....v'!

! am t;t>!M to 1"told othernise· arid

.rav1c1on ot t~e
rn. PAGE:

nw

But t'Vti9

rulint; is ~ubject to

Comm~ttec•

! do not t'>tinl: the t!"ta.racter of Jad~e wella is

in ttJeua at all and tht!!

r~a1rnan' s ~int; is oorroot but 1

would presume l.rr. cane.lea wou!l.d ,1:.\vc t\te
Wells was a cl\n.i rnan

or

rt~h.t

tc chow ii'

J'ud~e

the Cl)Unty Cotmvil tJt lJefensea he would

have 'flbt ri&Jht to ia'how t'hn.t ~e wtJ.& ooppexa.ts l'W! '1i tl\ J'udD;c '!Ql lo.

tm. CA:ZAT,,FSt
Tl!E CTfA!~'ANt.
l!n. CAliT.AJ\,E S;

W~ll

:vou lllC<4ae anm.:er ti,at

'fttt S~ r~

'!11a

! appeal.

t'rom

(lUGUtion?

OM~ :c rules t~n.t

it io

tm»rc>1u~a:i

t~~ rulint; cf t'1e Ohair•

:t

believe I ~ave tl\e riq'ht in o~~~r to pr~d:too.te tiff subeequen·t
quests on, tlla.t ! 1'\ave t't'te r~ 1tl'lt to rely upon Ju.d!l;e UellG to
~ive

llJm my infornat1oi because

~e

!o known

t~ere

ae an hoi,,..

orable m:a.n and ti,erefore "! could address 111m ~11d ~ive ltim any

!nforma.tton ! 'tlad "'tlt reqard to t'he e1"'f'o%'Ceml?nt of ti1e la.w.

un.

PAGE:

J.'r• Ce.nalee ~uld ~t not 'be uati~ .aetory to you

to develop Judl!,e We'.tle pon1t!on. t~a..t

Oounty Council

ot

'•1e Wfte

Def~me, ~~t11ont r~~'~nr;

Cltn.il'llan o-r t1\e

into '!-\is oni+.tauter?

! f you tt.o into his c1'tA.~eter. he 'ha.a a /SOOd many tr1nnde u.nd
enemies and we "1'H4d be 11er-"' :?and '1ear i!Bl'lY poople :Vl.'O a.D co~

I do not t)\1ntc t'tle c"tm:trmn ho.a :ruled tl\a.t you 'tad not the r11;1'tt
to px-o~e that he we.a m.to.~ :rma.11 of t.11e State Council or jjei"$nse
bt1t we do not v..r~elt to go

t'R. CAm,ES:

!nto l'liG p:rivD.te cnaracrter.

Only in t'-1~s connection, ! had to rely

upon l'lie be1~ a law abid1n'! end la'ti m1torci:ru? e~tizen-

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 lm. PA&!t Won't you cotabl 1 eh tliat by oliow:J ~ t~e poet•

tton tltat 1uclqe Wetle l\eld?
Pn. <'A'W~LES:
~

A1liq-11t ! w1 tltd:ro.w t'1Bt question and ask J

You "3.ve known 3udq$ We11o for a number or

yca~s~

A Yes sir.
~

And are oloee frtende

A

Yee.

~

Now what poe1t1on did lte

w~t,, 3ud~e

Welle?

the1'G i t you

~old

1c ~ovl/

A W'iat?
~

\11\a.t pueition did

A

fl\v l1.e

Q,

Yee.

\'IS.O

~e ~oad?

a praotioinq attorney,

A· And ! belSO?e.- was a member

or

tense, Sub-Oomnittee ot Natsonal
~ T~e

!t

ot

State Council of Defense waen't

tlVlt 'kind.

tao not he Yery

to

Dof~nse.

ot our Dintriot?

A ComQt"tintr
~

DefennEH-Th~

State lTat!gnal

n.,.

tlt e Oorr.tnittee of lfationa1

propo~nda

aot~ve

and

tl'lo

!n

~iv!ng

tllin~e

that

you :fnfomation witl\

r~rd

would co-operate wt tlt you

in w! nnin~ the wart
A Ke was a very patr!ot:to American Citizen in every

very rm.tel\ !nereotedin winnin.t; the war because he

v.~

l\a.d

and

2 sone

over t"'1ere.

'6 now Co1onol 11 ie tt not. a fti.Ot you often frequently visited l'lim
and you caled in '1.!s offioe and he also would call to see you
wit~ reqa~

to

t~oee aot1vit~es?

A On \7hat aotivi ti est
~

That io about
anytlii~

t~e oopper~t!on

Yes.

t~e

tlw.t was necessary toward.a that end?

A To w1 m~ rui t1'\e~
Q,

about winnfruJ

•r?

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

war and

doi~

 A Aiwaye. ·
~

Do you know about t\.te fa.ct of t"1e, ma:icari by the n11.nte of
Oaro1o. tlta.t wae taken

trom P1pe:ra

taken by tl1e Jlantters to. by t"ie

l?lantation, a ranolt• and

Ia~Gl'fl

of CJ.apta:tn StSV'ens

Company to Point !sabel, and lield tne:re in Jail , and taken

out that

rt!~nt

and atterwarde oompletely los•

s1~~t

of?

A Only by wliat 1 saw in tl'lo ne\'lepapere.
Q, Do you know wltat was tlie comnon report in Bro\fn&Ville about

tltut ttme?
A 'l/l\a.t?

Q. l>o you tcnow v~t uae tlte common report :ln B'°11no•ille abou

t11a.t t!me?

A 1'babt that -.n?
Q. Yee., as to ~o tc:tll e4 tltat ma.n?

A T~ere wore all •orts of opinions.
SE'HATOR PAGE:

I ha.rdly t~!nlo- \Ve liave adopted tlo\e nllea of

Court Procedure-! llardly tl-l1nk common reports 1r0uld be adJnie..
sable.
J(}l. CA'.t~~.ES :

The only reason 18 1n as muol\ as the wi tneee

ltae test! f1ed and nenei-al tarley attempts to el\ow tl1at tl\ie

\rltness wae well acquainted, I was qoinq to

e~ow

tl-mt

nesa vtas not well aoqua5nted, that is all, tt-tat l1e

YJa$

the law of tlte United Stat$o and '.'rnternational I,a,.ns ae

t~ia

wit...

enforoSrui
t~e

Col•

onel 11.ae veey w!ll!n!l)r eta.ted• ld a mind was on t.,,at and not on
t~e

act,vit1es of the

~n~ere.

nut ot oouree

!

will wjthd:raw it

upon objection ot an,y member of t'lte committee.
Q. You do not know or any epeo:l.fi o acts of violati one 'by ttie I?an~era?

A :r do not.

q You confined your act,v1tieo to t'lte

Y111~ lin~

and to

t~e

enforcement of t\.\e Federal ta.we wi t'lt i-e.«ard to ?reutit'lli ty and

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 A. ! did,.
13-to,t~d

Q. You

you eta..t.1 oned

m~n

en J:'lipo1•' fl

~lanta.tjor... tfl:.'lt

is ora

A Yeo ch.·.

1n nf$' s ranc'h !a abol.tt 60 or 70 ·n il ea rron1 t•-ie river

Q. Tric

~an'

t

it?
A

~arthcr

think.

~

t1tan that

Q. And iu i t not true tltat it if! a.-thereie a layerof thickly set-

tled o.nd popule.ted country in t'1o valley vetween the 1~im;•s

lbnahco o.nd tllc
A \!ell

r:1ver~

tho~1e ~eti!em;:,ntf'

over,

£'1•01t1

10 to 20 :mil ca back f.l'om thi:i

u.p to t"t-1e !(ii:ttJ' ~

!o

rR~'!!lon1sville

Q. lo. not on

we::e not acai.tored boyon:.l Eian 3\.n11..Q

t~e

i-1ve~,

fl"Okn t'1e~e

on

Iln.nah Count".Y you ·:ottlrl not call i t oottlod.,

on thnt R5ve1•?

line lmt :it 1s 47 mil ea t:ron Dt•ovnioville on

th~

011lf f!oa.nt Road?

Q, Do you lcn:J 1 vtio~ !vford ls a:ltua.tcd?
A

no .

Q. 110 miles from 13:rovmevi lle9

A ! h.ave licen tl~l"Ough th.l:JX'C on t.''~ train.
Gillr!iJHA!.. "tt. .:r~:1"Tn

~'h~ t

io not on the Gulf' CQas·t it 10 on
'

ti lo 'i'q:x:us
;'-'1· •

!~ic~n 1sn~

;ro,

.CAI:.A1.m::;:

~ftn C'rt"!RrtAllf!
inte~i~-ax>ti<>no b~

1

t .it.?

it h1 on

t~1e

O.llt Coast.

~- am f,!oin~ to h.?.ve to ~ak tno.t these

midein order and let'a not make it neceasa1-y

to <?all oit'lcr ?_)a1"'ticp attention to :ft as vie go Uloru;.
Q. :-s it not a

i~a~t J?Oi _11~

nlorctr on tho Gulf Coast PDr,d- st. l . ou.ia

n1•.chmsv:ille anc !"~dean fu.5l.vr.1y q;oi~ Seu.th as you paaa on b"ck

a.a

f~;r

as w~1ere the county-w~e:t'c t"'le Kenedy u.:r1d

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

law:' s

fun<:~,~e

 arc tl1at tlte

r11·a~

liJ.l'tle oettlmnent ic l<ayniond1JV'flle, 4'1 m..'l l es

, from Brown3ville?
A. ! don' f, 1mow.

Q,

~· 1en

A

~~·ea.

,!n.:rl ~n~en?
!

kn~"

iarlinisen very v<?ll .

Q, !list io 25 milqs from 13ro moville?

A Yeo Sir.

direction wh.s,f, we cal

Q, '£l\en ru.11nin1 north in a lio:rt'hweetel!"ly

ti1e

b1nnc'h ~

you hn-"1e

.~ercedeo ,

a very

thicl~ly

po:pUlnted, yon

i1ave Dorna.. D.luo tl1ickly uottled., M.Jenozel°'• :3an .Tuan,, t'o.;t11en
an~ !!~j

os1 or.- i3n' t it a fuot :f n

a1~nc 'Ll\ia

lY aet.tJ.od. ootl?l'lrl'Y lies b<:lt ·11.~~n :Ki:1~a

\"/C.y ao ::ill thiu tnj ok

.mnoh

G:r!.t.1;ue'!

r;A.nd t.he R:i9

A A1 on1! t'111t blnnab t-atlroad?

I\ Yo11
wna

otat~Oi'Wd
ri~l-tt

t~:a.t t:irn·~

t'')oee rnen o.t t•1at

alor.iz

·tl'te

t~e ~jver,

R~vel"

pipe~

bl.1t itls

W'.l.a low and

:plantaticn bedb.use it

it not a fact also t'ha.t at

pecpl~

could Cl"Oss the

~ive~

o.·t w111, aomet:tnea simply on toot?
A Anywhere~

Q, :ro 1 t not

a. fact

a1no Colonel that

account 0£' tho taot th:-· t

or

~~t

ua d1d not

ort. otarv1 ~.e;
corn an1l
1\

Yee

l

s~

ne~

t~1e

cm

nccou11t or the tood, on

!"exiaan lopu.lation on the Ooutlt

i:-ood, c<mld not i:;et tood. t.·'lAt

t~$"J 11~l'a

and t:"ame ove~, orosrJ111'? n.t n!«ht ntHl ,.,<">\.tld

cta~l

vctatoea and

th~nstn

l:lke

bad

otGal

t·~llt?

r.

nll

t~1~

wny f:i.""Cm t\1e :Viper Plantation Ooutl'l

et Browno-

ville clear up to !"ercedes?

A Above t1vlt-a1l ·i'he uay up

t~ie r~vel'.

Q, '?ou hC\ve then ~1 $0 to cQ- opero.te

w tli you the Jede:t".i.l

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

Revenu~

 o!•tjc~rs 171,0

a.re 'Very act.ive veey ett1.c!t:mt and rat"ter

nw~e~

oua?

Q, ~· <:·n you have P..l.ao co...ope:ca.titl~ v1:ft1'\ t!1e• w1t'1 you t"'c ::3'ederal

i!lttnigl'a.t:i on of'ficera, n.1 ao very
~-d

,,•lm.t nwncl40ua? an<l yo·..t

of t'he ·'il:t tary :'o!'oe

t~at

o.lso

a.oth~e.

very cffici cnt tllnd some

co-opera.tin~

with you then. o.ll

were unde;.• your comnnnd.; will you

pleaae sto.t3 how !~1\Y of t'l-\em 't,"1nre was?
A Of my

troops?
'

4 \/ell St va.r:i.ccl :f1"'0m

Q 1~ow 0010·101 ir:r St,
l~nJ<l

'1 to

6000~

not n. f"act t'litit outc:tde of thc.t

whio'h tot.k place in Zapato. or .r1m

t' em you

WG1•0

~liet."e

Ro~v.

~at ~'«'lC'°t

Cot.\nty, at the

t,here \Vore not·aey oa.ttle 2?:?.ids in :1.ny

count:t13F,.,..
A

:r

t

1·· 111:

thn.:t 1 a t.iie only one.

T'"R. t.;A-rAI ~ :

~

Tl\at 1 n e.l 1.

you one

1 jttst \1n.nt

~io ~~le

oo~Gicn

~1lV111is ~,,.,l

o!'

roor~ quent~on.

Do you

re~r.!be~

the

three :.t'enf?er$ BtP-t.:ioned on the !lipoi-

X: a.ntn.tion?

~i

! vd i:sh yot1 vrC:Hlld ota.t.e t10 the eommi tteo what. you stated to mo
w~

t.lt re£erenoe to tlw1 r act:i on f.11ere nc to t'he' :r:- value ne of•

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 er

m&n 1ntert:'ats
on th.e Fil)er
'kind~

!n all

Ame1~jcc.n

111y

;icl~cd

there

"1e pat:r.olled that l"5ver day a.nd n:f.n;l-lt
~~e ave~

of. wet:\ther., wllile the r-teal :tnis . wen·t on.

1'0\7

to dea.1 l!l t'i.

expei•ience ,,.:it."1 the

'hnd 1.'hem

!

Plant~tion..

3oldei41' doe&!· not untl~r~t.a.nd SJ>nnfs1i, don• t 1mO\'f ·thu

or

pob:r;l,e

not.- ! didn • t 1tnOt.'-~O ! put a s~eoial q-11s.X'd

j

n 2ty camp

f)1GYn o.ton~ t.•10

~ngcrs ~11

~ll

hor<l-$r and,

r~cr..ll i n~

t,'1c narc!a. rev('lUt'.!O.Z1 w11cn I

t •1e t:hne... a.nd r:ltanaver I o·ould ?:et

th~m

bhem tc i1n.ve 2 Pf.ln&Jc:rc, or 3 , ~ l\!).Ve foX"ISot. ~ut dO\.'l'l

iA'l

that big bend country. in tl-te

: ooultl not otop

t~at

tlown

~fa.s

t.~cre

t-i1e:ro

<;n.ttle

Gt~~ir.u:r.

r:tper countl"J, ·to see 1. t
After the

not any more cnttl e

7'a.n~e~a ~ot

ntenlJ~ .

A Abottt 700 .

q, T'..,exe 1at3 the
A T.11P.y t,1d a,

:tot

~ip~r t'lnn:~a.ti or:-

Of f;jne bloodetl

it ,..u.o a. di;Qri.1 •;,-asn' t ! tV

anhnals.

Q, Tl-toy lind at,out 36 cf t•ierr.... nll t'l-le
t'i t i·!ac

b~f"o:retho Ra119'el's

catt.le-stol.en at one

vumt t •1ere?

A Ven.
.,~'len

Q, And

1.'hey sol<l th~ rest or tt1ern d dn' t t'iey?

A D1,1 • ,.,,at?

q, Sold the tect o'f thcri ..
A ! don' t 1010\''•
Q, ~",ie:it

A

rnnt ont of bun inens?

! do1"'' t 'know ..

A 1To.

q Do you know 1':1.·· Y.enedy?
A Yen.

Q. ·=< ,.

.

A

t~n

"eo .

Ke:1et,ly

R9..nat-1~

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

1 ~·,

th~

S

 ~

You knov,also l"r. Kenedy lived 1n Willacy county and ha& over
ac~es

4 or 6000

ot land- it io a

lar~e

Ranch?

A He liaa a la~e l"Qnolt tltere.
~

'{e has ao mucl\ oa.ttle or more tn Willacy County th:)G tl>te 1'1~

interest l1aan•t he?
A '.L'l,at

1 don' t knOVI•

Q, ~o you lm0\1 tltat Ml-• Kenedy doea not na.e d a!\Y lr.~$%'9 to tal<:e

care ot..A

l>o ! wha.t?

Q. Kno,., t'ha.t t~r· Kenedy ne'1er need any r&n1Je:ra to take on.re of
h1~-

A

T~at•o

hie busSnese not mino.
uJ.1.

Q Tho.t 1e

GWERAI, JtARLm: ft \1)\en thooe lbnqers went down to the Pi-

per Plantation there were etill some oattle

t~ere?

A Yes cir.

Cl How mm\Y'?
!tow rinny cattle d~d they l1.av$ down 1l\tite

A r dC>n' t know ltow ntib1•

rr. Canales?
1irn. CA fl,J',l';s :

I don• t lmo w, about someth1rus like 150

or 2()0J. juut eimply a da1Xfy.
A ! tl\1 nk

nw

ti flll1r1 ..s ot ·100

G ;?ii'.ERAL tfARL~i

\Vere t'D'O lar~.

T~ey

had quite a number anyway.

A Yee.
~ u1t~

reference to

tiOnjru; Solde!ro.

station~ruf
t~oy

.

men, with the reference t o •ta.

are not stat,oned

wit~

reference to

t~e

number o t" ncrea tl\a.t a. man ovme. are thoy. but more wi tll ref•

eredoe to
d~ ts

may

otl"Q~et1cal

points or the

03'0$6 tl1 e rive~

p&ir'ticul.a~

plaoe

w~er~

ban-

io thn.t not a taot'I

A Yee ..

4

~en it ~ t t1ould be t10re likely, or 1 f tl-te !Ci ~s ibnclt w\\re
t~e ~~ere

were utatjoned would he a more vulnerable po76t

· tnan t11u I\ene<Jsr rancll wouldn't it be proper 1 o eta.ti on t'-len at
the R1 n~ Ibnoh?

l!n.

CANALESt

That ie opeoula.t1ve on tlie oonolllS:!On

1 Texas
~
~itnacs
and tt and
opensArchives
t'1e real.ni
of epeouJ.ation.
State Library
Commission

or tlte

!J."he witness

 co·lld not poecfbly

~1~e

to the fa.eta ancl it
lht;-i,~e~:it;al '>l"

£01•

1~

hie op:hiiom

fo-r:" thin conmi!t.teo to eo.y vrltetlier 1t

ot'1t~:~ ~ea.no,Jo .

to Ol'<H3f1.. e:xe.min~t1021 Of ti1e

not

conclu~>ions

C

·1n

~· ;;F/~

e.."{})<~tM.

rroro t."te

''Am ~t!

Tl\e witnean oo.n tct11t1 fy

!

1~

!

actua~j

t

,1.~'k

~e

to.eta. to draw f;.\eta

t~ 1e

t'i t ..,e known

~Uld

~a~a ..

1'>eli~v$

1'11.0ws "'

e

t1utt j t ba eonf'1ned

t"ie '11 tnoso has qua.1 ! N e<1 ae

vdt.neaa in •-:ilita1--y .t\ffu.11..G• i · ·t · e ifl a

l ti~tomr. t'1nt

j

etrate~:tcal

mar;te~

of

point when l'te seeo . it,

proµer l'>lr>.oe tp plaott

ic inen

o~

tl1e pro11er

place to pxo0teet on t ..10 'bordfJ.r and as an expert a.lcl'l9: that
li110 : an· •1.1m th<Jt \!L'HH.3t·lon t!1Ul t"'io con:w.i te e's coi".\!3ent>.

! t1, nk he cn.n a.sk 1 t'

G·;:·ATOH ''J:'I I.!"i'O:RD!
had. any

cc:C"t~:i n

'i';~ •.
oo~ r."

place

<l'-'-<~nt1on ~1ae
·w~e ~~

The q iectJons

o::ea•

e Solt i

~:i;oa

didn' t rst,a.t:f Pn thern a..1> aey ..

01.. 11.tf.1y h.~

GA.i\i\TJ:i8: · T?-\nt

t\1

not -.·.d th referonoe to

h.c at.at!ort<ld

!Wl.n~cu•a

70 mtl.en

frOl'tl !~l'OW11$V:i 13.e.

Tn~ c•tA "'~''A:"'·:

ahead. a.rd

Go

11novrer.

"'ou otat!one<l t•1e mon
~ot1o:.U rea~orus

~.ore to~

t•1e

at~

that you did for tho territory, did you not?

A ! d!V.

Q Arc :rou aequaint.cd witl1 t, 1-e co111tri o

ourrottnd~~ t~c !'1ri~s

a.nr1 the l"onedy an'!h?

~nc'1

A '.t "l\'l"te

rnc1,u~t?d o;re:r t~"le

t.~mes-p::'l.i•tt

'4 ! ''iil.1

ot

uel~ yci1.t

yo11 i.'15 n'k

i~..tat

Kinr:t .Rl.noli w:fth ?lr•

!O.ebe~~ a~v~r.11

~t·'bt1t ! don' t kr1oi1 t'H~ l(t'lnedy l'it.1.ncll at all ..

t.hit qu.et;;t:t on tl'teni
it :as

p:rop~j~

A~

a

m~ l i tary

'to et.nti on F.n.nt?;em c

man woul d
'l

t'ie

Rj~

FGnoh to prevent. r.a~ ds eorn:I ~ f:t"mm t'\1x1oc?
/.t.. Yen ro-1: the r~son t at !
~nch
h~tre

endoroed o. requeEt of the Kinp;' B

I\:ople to put. a 'bunc}1 of'

a.lrc:'\dy

·:t t 11e t.~ n:.o,

~a,d 1

:re~a.l•

troope t.'1er.e as !

an< spoke to "'cner3l 'tJ'olbrook who ms

on the

1~~

Ti""'S na..noh• or 111.wkman- !

1 'Texas State Library and Archives Commission

~ve

t."1ere

'fot'f$otten,.

 nut my reeownentia.tion was d.:f sap:p:roved. by t\te
t~e

de.r for

'he d:t d not i1a.,et.,.,e troo??s to

t'"'~-t

reasons

fu.ot t'lint they put TI.ant!;ers t'1eret~at ,

ther~

but

'ias a

na.ncli, a.tao on the
t1'to.t

:mi~ht

De~'lrlment

~ood d~~l

~(ennerly

~pare.

Tl-wa

<lo not 'know anyt)tint.r, a.bout
t~e~eon t~a Ki~

of property

Ra11ch, t11at

~ood

have 'Veen of" a

~

1J0Jl!"a.n-

tll~~lit

ha:7e 'been all-

deal of 'tG.ltte to our Germain

frierJds a.c:i"Oaa tlie creek and ,,,,e djd not ·.nant them to l"'et that

'

stuff.

?m.

q

CA~f.ALES:

Cclonel as a

No~

st:t'ft.~etioal ~~n.

w1-ten you ,,,ant to catac'h tlte enenw do you P'.lt your men

OTI

an

open i:irn.1rie wlter.e they could be oeGn, or in the country where
t~ey

could be hidden and not be saan?
T m C'tA !P.rfAN:

Gentl emen, t'l1'.i o is

~o i

no;• ! am

~o int{

to

hold that the question js improper.
1.rn •.

CAFALES~

I am

~oin~

to appeal for t"1e

hns been pel'm5tted to ao into it and if
! nto speculation
~x~e~t

to snow

not be any

r nave a

t~e

r1~·1t

~e

:f n

18 pe:rmjtted to

putt~n~ ~en

t"K~t

there

~ar:ry

in •

Now ! appeal from t11e deci eion of the Chair.
TrrE

~tA::m~~N:

Oentlemenej di1 you

that was aslc-:td and the rul 1nu, of the Ohair?

cares to
~has 1·

s~ou1d

on absolutely open prai•

r5es where tney oould be seen by ever:r Tom, Dick and
tl-teri.

~o

to use the same .. i tneas as An

other facts and to show

stre.te~

iJen't11~ma.n

~ear

the question

! f the comi tte

th.en111'el ves a.bout 1t o:t• ca.re to over- rule t'1e

~press

1 wou.ld be

~ld.

sm~TCR

t.o

~ve

t'1em do ao.

PAG.!t: ! thinl< the rul111t of tiie Chair wae

correct.
THE CTtA!nl~l..tf:

A11y other member of the Comn:fttee

any other expression? ••• The cl'tair ia
?.~R.

C.A'TA!.BS:

susta~ned.

Will you tlten mo.lee tl-\e ea.me rulj rute

hereafter?
1~Hl
Texas

State Library and Archives Commission
I

 'l'ft-p, cr.rA;1~tA~1 :
c~fio

question

rr. Canal es

r vdll rule on eaci,

ape- ·

it ar1oes.

~6

l'n .. CA~1ALES: ~ l'o you know wltere t'1e laM' s Ranch.
~n

Willacy County is,

~t

is

ope~

country on the bald psatrie

made tt sand a.n d sf>.rid '1il1s or :ia it thickly. or a tliick wood-

ed country oountr.r?
A '.J'ha.t pa.rt t'l1.at ! lts.ve been over is open country

saw some

q, Is

bunc~es

alth.ou~n

,.

of timber.

i t not a fact tn~t :pract; . ally R.ft.er you lc~ve Ra.ymondev1J.le

com1~

Horth ''ntil you

~et

near to R'f rBJSV1lle, it is practically

open country,, t.l1a..t it 5.s eanoy and na.nd hills and. only "iere e.mJ
t~ere

a mott of live

oa~?

A 1 don't recall where :Raymondevf1le ,e.
~

Do you know where

r~~ias

is?

A No; There are stat j.ons al on~ the ra.ilrod between Rj nP"svi 11 e a.nd

Brownsville.
~ ~aven't
~o'.f.n~

you nct1ced

nru.ch

open space

a~ter

you leave

X1n~svi1le

Soutlt, you find l o.rg'e open spaces, and motts here

here but mostly open

~nd

motts

co1~ntry?

A Yes sir.
Q, !s i t not a f~.ct t'1at a. person \'!a1k5no; or ridin~ on t'1at open

country oould easily be seen for miles away?
A Yes if he ste.1d in the open but H' '-le VTae llP to a.ny tric'ke 11.e

would not atay in the open.
Q, Ti,Ei.t 1 a all.
l'f.EllERAI, !-fARtl :Y:

Yr. 'l'JDWEtL:
at.q,ted t...,i t

you

1'\~.d

~''in. t

$ s all.

Q, 011. Colonel one question; 1 bel'.f eve ycu

'knc.,vn Captain

yC1u ever call on him tC' ma,'ke any

~!:l.naon

for several months; Did

5nvest1~a.ti ons

for you in t'he

line of your service down there o:r '.fn t'lie line of i-t.:fs service?
A ! t.'i! nk so.

19 1Texas
~ State
I V,'OUldLibrary
like toand
askArchives
you !fhet~er
or not lte e'fer by
Commission

word ind1cated

 •

tho.t he wns bi.avec\ one i:ra.y or t"tc ot11er 1n lll!fis investiti:a.t1on or

A

!

n.nd openly?

·ftt.~ 11.y

w11ether h(! rrad9 t.liero

anw no evidence of n1as.

Ao

f~r.

na

t~e

information : V:Ot from

Cnpta.in "Ta.neon, "! "liolieved 1t to 'be tlie oorreot

Q.

tlia.t

kno;trled~e

:r

~ta 11t od.

'l'

vm.nt to aolp you ·to state ·:1t1ether or. not you ever 1 ndioa.ted that

his i nveetiao.t:iona were m1de '7i t'i the idea of just] fy5 n~ 11.is -vnen
01•

Justifyi~

any 0th.er percon?

A l do not t'!ttink ao .
Q,

r

vd 11 ask you uhP.tlier o:c- not he cwnr indi outed to you a knowl-

of

ed~e

ha.v1n~

men ir.

Servjoe t1'\at were disreputable.

L~ e ~-ru.ter

tl'lat 1'tad baen 4?:Ui1 ty of ""ux-der or

A 1tot that ! knov1

of~

SE'S.~TCR ·i;:I!.l!?CR1~:

ever aaked him to
A ! did not
~

other offense?

f1.ny

Q, You ha7e not · answered

inYest1~ate t~e

t~'7.t

yon

oonduot of any offio4t.ll?

~et that.

inveot1~ate t~e

You did not ask h5m to

oonduot of any other ot-

f.icia.1?

Q, Cl' o.µy

Rl.~ex-?

A No Sir.

Chu.irtr4''3.n

~IEDSOB:

Q, Your

~rea.dq1l8.rters

were in or near

the C1ty of TirowtlsVille?
A At Ft . nrcn7n.
~ ~ow

tar is

A The

c~ty

~You~

th~t

and

duty

out of

~ort Ero~n

t~e

C1ty?

are practjoally one and the same

necess1tatedyou

bej~

or. the publ!o streets and

t~~~ .
t~o-

roughfareo ver-J often?
A Yea edr.

Q; YJ'l·u1t was t'°le conditjon with referer¥:E) t()

drinkin.~

State conduct
Library dur:f
andngArchives
19Texas
~
derly
t'he timeCommission
you v.ia.o t"l'tere?

and

djeo~

 A Well it was prac ~i¢ally- cH d' not exist J r. Cna.irmu.in.

! don't

recti.ll havj n~ aeen a d1•unken Soldiel.' :in '.Pro\'lnevi lle• much to
my
~

del:i~ht.

D1d you oee a.ny TID.11.!Jers t 'rt.J.t '.7et'e drunk or under

If

l~ 1quo1•

a.t

tri~

j

nf'lttonoo

i~.11~1

A ~ .mm :: don't th.ink ! eve:!... oavt a drunkon ~n in Bro,1ns ville.
Q, Vll1atwas t'1e c ondi ti on with. reforence to Oa.mbli~ "fouoe rurminq

open o:i: not?
A Not that ! knoY of.

!

~new

of none of it or !

~ould

have

~otten

after t'l-lem.
Q. T11e entire la.wa of t"1e C1ty and. E>tate were so far aa you could

eee well enfol.'<led durini.s the Mrne t"lat. you v1e:i:e located V1e:re?
A !n Drov:nsville'?
Q, Yes.
A Yes.

~

!

belj eve you

saiC

oonduct out of t..., e

t~t

you had not obse1-ved any reprehensible

Ra~ers?

A l' have never• .
Q, T'1en w'hi:tt called forth. your letter

ot

001nmenda tion to t "he Adj\11-

tant General on tiie disolmrqe of Ca.pt. J'ox and 'his Company?

A Wetl 1 believed

t~e

policy as outlined by General

an exoellent one. t\'ta.t· 1 t would restore a

~reat

~rley

was

deal o f t'1e oon-

fj denoe amoru.s t~e people alon~ t'he border if not all of t~en. t'1e

let t er b1 d.d5 ~ t'he people. the tenor of Oencaral !-Ja.rley• a letter

wae to my mind a very excellent pres entatjon of
Texas over t'l-\e
~

a uthority of

lb.~ers .

I believe General l{arley asked you about, nade a epecific as t o
Capta)n Fox or somet'hirus of

t~at

kind

course, and you personal ly don't know
;~

t~e

A lTot'lrt:l <itt at all but what

a ~J

you comnended 'his

anyt'hi~

e.ppeared-not'1i~

of

t~e

i ncident

at al l a.bout i to. wliat

19Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 brouqht about my letter
announo~d by

ptt.I>er.

'fnz.

A

:r

ap:peara.noe-'1'as t'ie

!7en-:?ral qa.rley in t'liat letter. ·

! did not

P.diic:re<\ to

W3·S t.hc

~et

:r

pr~nciplea

read it in a new·e

it from General lia:r.ley•

CA'~l'J., ilJS:

Q. Do you know that l'lene'l'Q.l Tfar:tey lta.a

t.'1:~ t :pr~l"o1plea

aa annou.r1ced in that letter?

do not 'knoi·!.
Does any oth.E'l' member of· t"le ooim11 ttee

THE CtTA!mrAn

desirP. to ask th.e Colonel

a~yth.in~?

Colonel iiave you

anyt~ing

furt11 £>..r?
A T\1ank

you.

Uo.

l:T""

~:rJW'l~.I,t .

Garnbl~n" e~tua.t1on vtas~n

Q. You dontt lmom what the
191<3 at 11rownsv!lle?

drin'k5n~

a.nd

You etated yov..

were not looe.ted t'iere.
A No;

:r

vta.e in Me:x:1oo w:ltl1
1·n· Cttft..:rm~.AJ!:.

Pershj~

nt. that time.

C.entlernen. thi:a cn?l'lt11ittee w111

reconvene at 2 C' Clc·ck.

194
Texas State Library and Archives Commission

~1se

to

 (The Cot'.mtttoe r.eco11venod a.t 2 : 00

p.u••

Oht,.i1"ma.n Bledooo,

prooidlng. )

Co.pt. Ha.riv tla'tl'lton

hnv1ng

fi~st

been duly

Gttorn~

toet1tied baforG the Oommitteo

ao f'ol.10,,10 t

EXAHiliIED BY GE!tlim.AL HARLEY;
Q Oo.ptthin) you. \'fOre unttl recently tho Intell1genoo O:f:tiocr

of the Er<Mnov113o Diotriot. aero you not?
A Yoo, elr.
Q And in oha.rr.;e of tho Intolligonoe Dopw:tmont of tho Arrw

tboro?

A tn tho Brovinoville D1atr1ot .
Q I 11111 ook you to sta.~o tYhcther or not you ho.d oooao1on to
uootho mnse:i;ia a.t d.1tfOl"&nt timon'i
A Yoo., frefl'\1ently.
Q

I uiil oo'k yott t1hotber ot not t.btd.r oervioeo wero oo.tioft.io•
toey?

A

Q

They were •

they anointed you in every no.y they oould?

~o

A Yan,
Q

e1r .

t \'11 ll c.uk you if they o.uoiatod in a.pprehend1ne; oomo

diolo~l

pa.r ttoo tl1eroJ oomo people oho.raod tti th viole.ticno 0£ noutral-

iltY o.nc.t othOl? cr!.t!lco a,g !.not thooo United Sta.tea?

A Yen. oir.
Q ! w111 auk you. 1f Mr. Oo.na.len o.eoieted you in o.ny trey?
A I novor hr'd tt.ny ooocai on. to get a.ny nolp from h1i:i.

He never

a.ooiated mo in any way.
Q

I w111 o.ak you if nit any time 1hon you bad anybody

in yow: cmares f'or vlolQtiono of the

neutr~li ty

Oa.nu.loe or not aok you to roloo. o thoao mon?

19a

A

no

d1d .

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

. ~:tt?...eotod

or

lU.Oo, did Mr .

 I did not untleratand that anawor .

SENATOR PAGE :

A. Ho did .
Q I will nak ;ou to otete the t1mo and plAoe, a.o near

you

OD

onn?
A ! think it was in a.bout

th~

r.iontho ot• At,suat tb.a.t Oo.pt .

Wiloon, ntetioriee. a.t Vonie R1vozi., ar.roatod a. tr.an by the nama
of Ano..otooio Muno~ t-ot 1llogBlly oroouing tho .rivoi-~ a.nd tihO

:mu.r:. that aooiotod htrn in croeoina,
telliaonoo office a.t Fort
llutloe

t1t?.O

held in. the

llroWn~

guc~:rd

~nd

broUCht thom to the ln-

o.nd they woro invoet1entad. o.nd

houCJe e.nd ono othe:c

OO)l•

X don •t

reco.ll l'iio name, o.nd tho othOro aoro x-eleo.ocd e.nd. oent
to Vtnie m.vor in o. eovel'n.'.nent truck tho.t mo:m5.Df! ·
Mr. Canales ca1aoa me u.p a.nc.l. ea.id rJo bad nomo r?>an

euo.1•d houoo c.nd be tboucrht thW ouct:t
c..a ha t11ought t .hey

\70?<~

1;0

~l:

Abou.t noon
tb\!11~

n the

bo roloaoad. et o oe.

l tcld

a;ood men and c;ood oi t1 aena .

!1int I \1n0 holding t11om to cauoe :£ 'WOO i~ tructed to do ti o, the

mu.n

faQt.d ~tt:om:vtod to

a.na

\'IC lltl.d

otooa tho rlvor, c,nd iJ.:tegu,1 011oaa1na.

1notl'Uoticue to lloJd them and tu!'n thom ov'7>l' to the

n.utllor1tieo who he.ndlod that olttoo - ·
UR • TIJ1.1ELL;

Wa.o tho.t t h·o lo.ot August?
'

A Yon, thio

la.~t

Aueuot • o.nd Ohortly bofore tho umiotioo· 11Q.o

al.gnod.
GEJlERAL n.ARLEY:

ttho.t tho

~?Om.lty
kno~:r~

A I don •t

Q. I n!ll a.ok

ym.t to oto.to t r the Committoo

to-r the crimo

001.nndttod

but tlu:> pan1phlet tho.t

i.10

;c,n?

roooived htld a. 2."Ul1ns

in t11ora tlltl.t they oou ld bG 0011tenoad e.u:yw11oro from ton to

twontv

ye~o,.

til\d a. fine u.p to not o>to.ead.ing tw"~11ty

th-0uoo.na

<i.olle.l'O .

tno Fede;ta.1 ponltantia.ry, ya"' mca.nt
A Vco • btit 1t 141aa o.n immigration ~ , of couroo • a.nd

Q Gcntent:ed to

turit

Ol'

rtG

wero to

·the1 ovor to the iw'nlsration u.uthor1t1eo. ttbioh \70 <i1d,

tho J>3pe.rtmont of' Juot iCO •

Q Did thO 1ungexa ever o.ol. you to t\.\>."?l anybody e.leoee tho.t you
ca.uaht d.Olfn tho1'0 fo r v101n.t1ne the la.':10 of neutra.ili ty?

19h
Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 A

No.

Q Or any other lawa of the United States?

A Not to nrf knowledge •
Q

Ar the State of Texas?

A

Not to my., knOVI ledge •

Q

nut they did aaeiet you in every \Vay to enfo:roe thoee
and cooperate with you Vlheneve r

~ou

laws

o.aked. them?

A Yee.
Q

Did they a.t any time show disloyalty of any

kin~?

A liot to 1rrf knowledge.
Q

Do you know CS.pt. Ha.neon?

A Yea, e1r.
Q Have you had oooasion to use his aervioee at

&DJ time during

your t enue of oervica down there?
A Well, through his men that he had there, Capt.

St~ne

and

Capt. Taylor.

Q Oapt. Stevens and Capt. Taylor?
A I thiak ca.pt . Wright was there for a short time also; all of
t hem a.saiated ue in our work.

In fact, every time ca.pt. Han-

son oame to Browneville he always called a.t our off1oe and ·
a.eked if there lla.s anything he or themnger force oould do to
assist us in our work, that they were very gla.d todo so.
Q Did you :rely more upon the ra.ngero or the looa.l authol'i tiee to

aaaist you down there?

A Everyone assisted ue as far ae they possibly oould.
Q Everyone ase1eted you as far as they possibly oould -- You did

not rely u:pon one more thnn the other then, did you?
A No, I oannot say that we did; beoauae whenever there was a

caae that the · looal authorities could help ua, they assisted
.

•.

uo, and whenver the r angers oould a.seiet us, they did; and

likEn1••e, whenever· we oould aoeiet them in any of their wort
we mutually helped ea.oh other .
Q Do you kn0\7 anything a.bout Oapt. Ha.neon• s reputation as a.n

1~
off1cer do\1n there?
Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 A

No , except he ha.o n.lwo.ya dona hio \Vork. to the beot of rt:/

kncmledge. in the beet poaoible ay.
Q

\Jbo.t wa.o the . g ene1'al opln1on no to hO\'l bo did his work d.o..in

thorci
A I nOVO>i GQkOd anya1a .
Q

You

novo~ h~a.r.d

tho.t <13.eouaaod?

·A Mo, oti.

Q 'l'hat •o all .
EXlltfXNED BY SER'ATOR PAGE~

Q Who.t beoamo

ot tliooe

rr~ttoro -- thcoe mon tba.t you had fl.llreated

fort ~yin(E to oronG the rlvor, tlu.tt tlr . Co.no..leo twkod you to

roloL\00? flhat bOotuna of t ha ou.oo

~~1not

thom?

A 'rnoy uo:ro tttrnod over to tho Dopo.rtmont of JUotice a.nd tho

imm1grati cn

officials~

and

t~o

rnattar ueo reforrad

to

1

tho

Dopo..itiimont or JuotiOG h'l. San Antonio, u.nd they roleaaod them .
Q

Ao

Ll.

rua.tte3:' of

foot~ they 101·0

roloa.oed by the J)lpa.rlment of

Juattoe?
A

Yoo, n.1t.

Q After 1nvaatigo.tlon?

A Yoo, oir.
Q

And th

uoro the rnon that Mr. Cana.leo 1a.ntod jou to roleo.eo?

A Ito r1antod t\l! of them r" loa.oed .
Q I Ml Mking you about thoco llo a.oltod you to rolcaeo?
A& 'Yeo, they t70ro all --

Q Itow many did you. have a.rreoted a.t that t!mo?
A

~~o .

Q Wers thoso ntte~r.e.l"do rolcesed?

A lio

w~nt~d

not!:O raleo.oed t b.a.t uore not ar.reotod.

Q IIov1 oould you rela~oo CJ..'lyboey tho.t wao not o.rrcnted?

A Thc.t S.o ;}UGt rrho.t I told him .- Thay 11ad already beon o ont home .
Q Ubo.t boon;~ of. ih o ~tiea tho,t wora aftoraa.rds reloaaod?

A 'l'hoy wero brought from Vonio ·River in army truoko by Co.pt .
U1loon .

196.

Q

Ao a. matte~ of fo.ot~ cba.rgeo were never pl\~sood a.g !not tboeo

Texas State
rnon?Library and Archives Commission
=:.

 A lio<t cir.

Q Oh~t roaoon d!<i ha g1ve for mnting thorn :releu.oac.?
A Just tnid they nez-e good rnen a.nu <'U.d.1.1•t think they

r1ero gu.1lty

0£ doing Gnytbing. he thwaht thay \1o:ua a.11 l':ic;.bt .
Q

fJ)id* t think thoy

rIG!'O

guilty of doing anything -

'1ho.t Qpinion

lifo,c t:t.no.lly oQinoldod in by the Dopartmant of Juatice?
A Yee. 01r.

EX.M!nnm BY im. <M.MAtEa:

Q You kno\. Ur. Danoy?

A Yoe, o1r.
Q Uy formor ltm P'-"rtnoi-?

A Yeo. air.
Q You conaul tod With hint often \71 th rer:;a.rd to D-civioo in a. logo.l
wny?

A Yeo,

o1~.

Q An<lJ'pualao on one oooao1on a.okod r.ie to look up u. vecy tmpcrt(l.nt
mo.ttc1· •

tte

to whothor oh1ldron born 0£ Mextcoo~~

but

born' on tldo Bl® t'Hd beooma oi' azo boro,, \7hethor or not they
uoro U~toe:n cit1aons?
A I don•t rernatiiber tMt. Ur .. ca11~loa, but probably I did.

Q You reoolleot the quoetion ooming up thoroT
A ?.'bore were ao ma.iv <iucotion -- e uaod to go to ttr. ninov u.nd

ho uaod to help uo .
Q You know lt'-' . J»ncy .and I ,.,~ro voey oloooly oooooteted and you

oonou1 tod \'11th tfr.. Da11oy o,ll the t!mo?

A Yea, oir.
Q Wo.o not tha rrJ.7,n I u.uked yot\ to
A

roloo.oe

na:i.t1v·d 3'hntoo Ecoon?

I don •t remember the i'lU(ne .

Q Waan •t the r.um I Mkod you to rolonoo the voey mnn 'C>bo.t you
told rne o.t tho time tho.t ho t1a.c not a:rreetod a.nd was brouent
over ther.e aa a W:l.tneoo, tbt..t ho vro.o brouaht thoro p.a o. \'11tncoo
o.nd \1ould bG retui'ncd that do.y on a, tt"Uok?

A I don ' t :mmamber that .
19~,

Q You Clletn to bo V0'£1 po.xai'ul of rnomory -

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

you ouy Uunoz ......

 tho only n:n.n ne over hru1 a.rreotod.

I

Ho

Q

Z knevt St.w1too Beba.n. I kr.Grt ha \ia.a e. goOd rntm) Md ·,1a.o on

10

hla

0\1n

~rnisoa. and

Vian tha ntU'!ie of

Y<>U told me then -- do you believe that
tho . !lO:r.aon tl1e.t r;a.n bJ;"Ought \Ti th tvto 11 tt l$

boya ·as litnonoeu • a.tld thoy
thllt ~u.y 1n tl1e truokY

Yl-Cra

rcleaoed

A !t 1o pocH!1tl)l.e tha.t. :Ge.a bis noilna. but 1

Md. \70U.J.d

bo roturned

v.a not OEU,~('..tn.

Q 'lbtt.t • e t\.ll •
ffo <iOld you. that tliGy tro1·e n.ll good men.

<rimE!UtL HlffiLEY: Q.

did he not?
A

m.

TIDWELL :

You kno\7 Co.pt . ltanoon?

A Yoo, o1r.
Q With him f~quently tboro,. ua:r.o you?

!

\7ao ho ff.'o·=i.uentl;y thel'O?

Q

i nay vtere you vti:th him ~~'tVlntlsr thora?

'..

A Ml®. ll.o viettea Gl"a11nev:tllo6 y G~ a1J: .
Q

· Diet you 9vei-oonoUlt \-'11th h3.n1 ~n refe7:0noe to 1nvent1ea.tins
o.ny oottoo:» c tlrd.t tni$ht be ohargea. with

irae thero?

A lt io quite possible .
Q Did you ccmault ~itb him in rofcrenoo to 1nveet1~t1ng o..ny

ohargeo

ag~inat tha

rarlBore tor '/J:ny miodeoao cf

the~~o?

A I don ' t thinl: o~. no e1r.
Q

Did

l'O\.\

ovor hea.r him cxprooo himoolf ao boina of: a £uoa.

mind bofo1·a be :.?ant to inveotie;a.te o.n.y queotton?
A no*
Q

oir ,

'lllat 's

~~ll .

SEUA'ro.R PA<I!:

Any

Gfil?ErMt HAntEY: Q,

further quootlono?
Wo~

you prccont '1bon these r.lon were a~

~-Ot.ted?

A Uhi all anon'?
Q ~'ho tnon that lll'. Ca.nailco· a.oketl you to tum loom~... - oe~o you

preocnt?
A 110 ~

2ob
Q

air.

You don•t It.now the 01x-ournotanooo of tho arroot then, do you?

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 A \>nly a.a 1!.tt.jor \q'lloon

~t.\VEJ

mo the pO.l"tioularo \'lhcn ho brought

them in • He o~nlG in f tom Von10 Rive= a.bou·~ n:t no 01' ten mi l<to

'+roet <.1£ Brc':'lnovllle, U.P tlle river.
Q

Ha onid they wero o.,,.ror·tod oroootne tho r.tva:r.1

A The Dt:t.n tt''\o in the t\Ot of oroooing th

b)?<rue;ht tm.ttk th~

ri.var, t':l.nd Wh&n be vto.a

ha wa.v prol,Ubly half' wa.y e.or.oa a tho rl vol' u.nd

aolc.U..e:r.n 11;1cnt in to {Set hf.a ou.t . He we.a

euena

C.rowned., ... I

ho \'iOUld hn.vo

~a.1nod

llJ-~ttoMlJ"

if they bad not acno

in aftor bin.
Q

I 1111 aek you tb1o quootion, i:f you Jmcm wtbb.t tho gonoro.l 1m-!)reoa1on iu

to tlto

a.mone

:canser~1'

the ltw1looo olcrnant a.own tbot'U .r11th l'Qt'erenoo

Ho.cvo you lived thoxao lone &no'Ufj1 to lm.ow tho.t?

SENA'rcr:t !&OE; Are fOU intiootine tbnt tho e-ontlomen to inti•
mnto with the lauleeo olomant?

.A

GEUER&L HARLEY: I wanted to
SENA'l'OR PAGE: Co a.he •
Wel . • J don •t ltt;.d.f .
tm. CANALES:

00e.

(l. You. d.ontt run w5.tl1 the lo.uleoo

elomont. do

you?

UR . PAGE:

tm.

StMd o.o!

TIDWELL:

l'ttE OHAXRMAU i

'tb.· ~

•

Ohail'rnrul,•

Yea?

im . TIDWEtr.: Q.ltcn1 lone tt.uvo you rcoided in the Dror1na\1'illo

oountey?
A

In 191B" I tbink :1. t ~n.o,

110 \7G:te

c,f.i.v1ood from Vn.oh!.1)6ton,

a.t tl1e timG of tho troops c;oina to Vo:o. oruaJ I had beon liv·

ing 1n MOxloc and out proportiea uore noar
the H0X10Q.ll Olde ,
Q

~owno~lllo

on

»o itou knoi1 <>f M.1 frtot1on bo~ret)n Ctl.pt . Hanoon• fJ uron nnd.

tho looo.1 oivil a.uthoritieo. oheriffo c.nd oonettlbleo?
A l: hu.vo howl in a general mJ.y tlVJre wo.o a. oort of 1.11 feeling.

tu y on.ra paot.
Q
2tt

I ha.ve rorevenoe to tlie lu.ot tttelvo montho?

A No .

Texas QState
Library
Commission
Do you
know and
wiw.tArchives
Oa.pt . Hcnaon•a
eenoral

i'Oputat!on

~t10ns tho

 J.4.7 .

le::t

~b1etine

poor>J.e 10 o.e bo1nr; an oftio1ont

offS.oo~f

A Yee . ntr.
Q

\Tu.at io hio reputation?

A

flol:l, ovoeybody n... en.ko very woll of h:bn .

tm . OAP.ALES:

Did. you t.-n

'i &pt .

Uo.nson in Ue&tao?

A ff.o. sir.
Q Did you. 1''1lo'il at the
A

No.

ttme be lived hi.

~1co?

o1r.

GENERAL

tho timo ho woo u.otetl,, ..

~t

Q Do you li:now

ItAnLEY~

He did not knO\'t hirn in Uox1oo, I think tlU.\t

!. c c not\Eth •

m:t.

CANA~S~

Q.. Do 10\l know the time ths.t he ttl:4Cl OXfH:1llod

f'rom MGnico u,t

f!t\tamo~s .-

you 'Jetia l!Vinfl in

tro11nav1~1e

a.t

tlu.tt· timer?
A J1ot

t 4cm•t know anytl..ing o.oout it .

Q You. don• t :rN>r.iembOl" about tho.t?

GEN'P!RAt

n.Mtm: no

didn't o:w

ue

didn•t ~omcmbel-' tti ho oa.ld

be cU.cln ' t know it.

Edward ~roll~

fi:tnt hrt.ving been dly

a~1orn,

tcctifiod before the oornmittoo

as £ollowo ;

EXiWINED BY GENER.AL I"ARI,EY I
Q

Juat ata.te you nmno?

A Edt'a..td fyrroll .

your

Q

Gt~te

Ii

Agent in cha.rge of tho Unitod Stateo secret serv1ae, Sl\n

oaoup~t1on?

Antonio Diotriat .
11 , E .. L .. In:U:Ott'l'i

Q. H01r1 lona wore you in tho aeoJGt earvloo?

A Ovo:t j>wontv yoare .
Q

J\.nd tho la.at yQo.r you

hu.\10

ooen ota.tionod in thO

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

D~o\'moVillc

-

 A

~o,

a17ti dllz-ing tho

oi~t

yoarc

heotJ.'lU0.7.'tax-o havo bOon

ley'

Sn,n Al1tonio .
"l

tm .

C.AUJ..L~S:

I have no o bject!on to h'lve unybotlU ~lntar:rogn.tod-­

:t aoulcJ. l!lro t.o nak the gontlG>ntm. ub.o !a
pooition be

l101d.~.

ao

we nt11

n~t intel:t>":"O{,~t1ng ~;ho.t

ltt101 nhothO~

the Adjuto.nt cone.d,t o !)epv.l't.nwnt, o~ o,a 4\

wo wtll

~nm CttAtRll~'·f:

m1 .

Ia.rtottt:

~ok

Yoe» I ho14

nr.

t.ie i o acting for

pnv&te lndivlduo.l?

OOgJit .

ittv oho.rt

ftom tho 1ttn~l' ~mice b1

t .h e c.djutu.nt 'o of£1co ~1.d a.ll e;t the ooc'l.Wa\i..
T1m CH.A!RMAM:

It tlw.t o.11 x-1gbt?

na.

CAllAtES: Yoo, l juot

tm.

XNIGHT:

Q. Ha.vo

~ante~

it

fa~

tho reoord.

you ha.d o.rtJ! offJ.o!a.l.

nQoo ro1'~t~i.ona w1 ~-. , «i.pt . HU.noon

e.nct.

po~no.l

a.nd 'bu01•

t'anGeX- ~o.roe during

theno yeerc you ba.v-0 boon in thG oorv!oe of tho oou11tr.y?
A Yea, elr.
Q lia.vo you h~

fl

~ight

buoy timo 11th tllo la.v1l0es elainaa1t r.tl nfl8·

tho :Ocn:dol'?

A oconsionu.lJ,1 ~ yoo.> at:t .
Q i;a.;rti oi1:ta,,_..11

n con)iootion

:vr~, th

a bA1·1d. of eou.ntol.'fo1 tero?

yeo, o1r.

A

Oountcr£(~11~h~g;

Q

Ila.vo yon llad oo<:mo1on to oo:U.oit tho ooopor:.ition ~nd ~nsietrinco
of tho i-:angor ~croco?

A Yoo, oir.
Q

You VI

~

.,htolln j_n oonaulta.t!on o;nd conte.ot Wit11 C"-4Pt • Ha.noon

o.nd dl .. ·f'1"ent momber.o of tho oe;1'anizo.t1on?

A Dif
Q

ro11t mombsra of the orgJ.n1zt1tlon; yon 11 oia: .

KincUy j\wt tall tho comm! ttoo \7ho.1> a.9c,:.Gtt\noe they f9.ve you,.
tho q,uo.lity of it~ tb.$.t in ~11-uthor '· t w'-"B 1:eD.\J:Y a.nd :;~~onto~\1ooun
~~i:td Oitrt\Otlt ~

mld DO on1

A It wao a.l\'lt\YO W1l11ngnouo and they nl\·rayo £\Oaompliohod \-Vha.t

they uet out to ncoonpl.ish .

tnforumt1t>n tba.t would be ro·:'.!UG017.:d

of themo they ha.v-o iil.wa.ye ~oaiotod mG to got o.o any other- ot'fi -

2

'

t~

oore ha.vo done ...,. very r11111n3ly t7.nd. very o.blo .

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

  

(?73

The oountry aim-m them in inz?cs-ztcd with a: chumtar
of banditz'y of Wwioun quality, innit it?
You, sir.
1 ~71 3.1L arm}; you to tell the aormittea whether or act than mum:
farce consists: of rugged, robust, md?lmded fearless man or
Bmzday mhocl ?Samba? and ?waoifmw? 
2m. Just momentu? I Hill as}; you me, chaimn that
the gontlemn be canfimd to the: mica. that he ahmld net load
311:3 witneao. It seems to me he is v. very able and vary bright
witnela and he should mt make srf;~;eation, imt he should con-
foam: to the 111192: of evidence.
THE GTLAIRHAIT: Mr. Imigjat in Well z'zctluzxintca with the rules: of
widenoe.
15?. HIIQIT: Yes, but I did net presume in a. smart; cf this
dignity ordinary petty rulau timid. be: in?ated on.
W. HOOK: I mime to a point of personal privilege. Befam
I entamd the nawico m: u. vcmtoer I mm a 81mm}: school
Macho: and 1 dc: net mild the point to argb-cdy to being; real-
bloudad .nci able inc. --
well. air, you are hare as a. witmea?

HOOK: Yea, 913:.
m: 33mm you {5'0 on the we will he 3th1 to
hear 3mm (:11 that point. At present we will process: with the
exzmmuxion cf the witness. If you object ts?- the UB'i?'md pur-
sued by Izmimt, you me a Lama?: right to 320 cm 15119 mm
and. give New: abcmt ?hmt. but not at this time.
We. mm: 1' have a tenant warnpathy with the I
maelf am an 33va wheel teacher and did not 2.23m my
ruflactiam on mymalf and certainly not an him.
HR. GMIALES: 8111: yea are an onI.
THE CHAIRBAN: Let's: have order.
we. EMGHT: Q, In other worda, did them gentlemen have anything

 

 

 

 

250.

evo~

-

!.n MY P'"rtic\lle,r fo.tl to do

t~11!

dUty as o1rouinatnnoeo

I

\1M"l'ant0d tha..l'!l e.t tl1e time they uda.rtook it?

A

no,

o1!' .

Q Did Ulc:t.v,, r;itl1in yau.r: t.~\ttle<.t.ae. ever

tto~

for:oo thu.n

11aoanoo.1y to J..~pol foroe rmd to ovoroome the lir.Yloosnestt
thou we:ee twinf! to 0\\!1P.t0tHl~

t10.s

tht.vt

A Uo~ oi:t; not oo :tn:t' ao l k.nov1 .
Q '>rou o.t·o fMiliar nith tho r.oputa.tion of Capt . HUnoun dot1n in

tlio.t country, are you not?

A tn

oeeno~o.1 \ra.y .

Q Ao a foa.:c-leao. oonuc1ent1ouo offioor and officiont officer,
\'.rhet lo iti

A It

~D

gooo,

0.3 fC'.1"

~lOl"Y

a.a I knoti.

good.

Q Do tho ln\1l~ao el<:UZl.Gnt otu.nd. in OOfO of him?

a.a i

A

All

Q

DO tho lJl\7 t:i.bid:b'Jg

ftt.r

k..'Tloti , they

t.\o •

°"1e.m0nt :aoopoot tmd lend. him

tho;.~ oo-

pp~nt,t1r.m. ~nd ar.siet~noo?

.A Th"Y do .

rm.

t obj act " Ur . Olla.:tr

OM.ALES:

Who.t io

Tim QUAit'WM:

tm .

OA!~t~ES:

objeotion?

!t 1o aboolutely 1e&tine.

THE CUAIRUAlH
Do yau k.1.ow

th~

n.

Don~ t

load tlie

1.

tn oa.

co.pt . \7ncrht tmd ro.n.-'iOr 3ohn Ett ?

A Yea~ ! fl.rat mot Ur. Ed.do poraona.lly tbio morning,. wt l he.we
ltM 001mnu..11ioo.ti()ne

Q Ha.ve they

a\ta!'

t1t th

tbem .

4Jooperatcd

\fi th

you?

A Yon. 01".
Q

.ten Mteotine erimG UM 03.tOhlnn Oll..'\pr1to? ltevc ycru a!le:c bo.d

ctooo..a:ton to onooun·ter tho looD.l cnt!pnthy on tbo pfU"t (ti county
offiocrc, nutbo:M tie"., to o.rra~y hemsolvea boldly 111 suppreooins

O!'imo <md bed to .oau on tba ro.nr;oro?
A

e Mvo never b.('A u.ny troubl.o of that sort at 0..11 .
Off'lcGra a.nd tho l:e.ngera lis.va boon very ~:111inG to
,

ttherovor at .

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

'Tho county
OAOJ;;GJ.late

 151.

Q Yw callee.'. 011 a~rt . VltU1t Gnd John Ed.de on one ocaa.iJton--

.A 3'u.'!?t recently 1 tb.(4.t io not ~ocntly,, t'lOOot blY fO'J.r or f1v-o morll c
Et.gqt .

Q iua. they .oonie i~o yo1~1·

aooictanoo?

A ~tca\t ~ix-~ r.,,nd d~.d wey

e tf1cient •1orl)4

Q Ti~VG f"-l.\ M)" XO@;GOn to 'b>J!J.evc Or 000tii~1on t.o i.m9-ginQ that

Cupt . Ha':loon or rcey cf Ula Ol.'(€Ani~tt.t1on oncou:t'itg(l ~ a.d.v1s0 o.~

oountononoo

E'~

otte!.tboer!ne; an4 1l:tego.1 atti tu4o en tho · .o.J:t
,

pf tho men in t11a ra.pg'Or foroo 1n run.nine; d.<n"'Yn thooe cri m1no.l,B?

1.m.

C.M7ALED:

Just a. rnc nt,• o objeut to thc. t a.s oalliue fo:r

tbe oonQl:ue~on ot: tbe "·1tnoso .

o ~-ok for the pt~ to oto.to

h1a fa.ct~, and not e1ve Wl'1 opinion <;f the vu.tneco Without £\b...

eo1ute1v knowing h<>W locus he kno\7o hie ~n a.oo WhetLGr be !m

a

,·.1m.t f!j.a bu.sinomi .tt>~ 'G.nd '-lt~lifioQ biQ oo n.o t-0 su.!f'ioiont:y

bl.ca the.is. op1.n!ort u~n ~:Mto, not rnoroly a. oasu~l opinion .

un. mnoi1:r; r t¥1ll ~•u:\vo

tl•Gt 11

mvo~ thikl

qu$si;i<>n, .... Ste.to

~o tb~ ognn·:tttoo \'ll~thcn~ n.ny of you1· exp~i:!onoe ha~ tioon in thu.t

oauntry ~

A

i~o,.

air

J"OU.

ever ltt"-:ed t'rotll 1;ho couroc of J.orr; ®1dir~. po.tli.ot1o

•

Q !U. 10U lt:i't.~1 o.btn.tt U; 1S -

A Who-A ho iould.

G()tiG

tnto my o.f't:tco bofo.ta ho titto With the

~e:-:o-

2 \C

Q

Pcl'aoMllY, nhc.t do you Jmorr oibout i t'l

Pernoni:-vlly
I lmort °'bout
1t 1o my doalinse
Texas AState
LibraryTlbat
and Archives
Commission

\71 th

him ..

tie

 10Uld. oom~ in ond ~ve carte.in inforan;tion e.M. we 11-0Uld run

it ou1; •

ho htv~ bGen ~11th, the ~ .rigex-o ~ ho hn.o

81&'\00

g VOi'!

cor...

ttiin "~ 1 !ct1~00 .
Q Yott llt:!.VO not been

w~ th

ll'.n1 \'ihon be tilG,d.O t~rL o.r:r.ea'li?

A No> air .

Q And poroon::>.l y don4t know \iTho.t ha onyo to thmu whon he c,~..

rootc thom• o;:
A t ha:f1o

2leve.r.

h<i.1

he traCitts t..11.em?

beOtl vi! th l~:i.m \'hon h~ a.~i-ea.tod o.t1.ybot,l,V,,

MR . T:ttmrett:

you vioit

Do

c.montly in you!'

A I 110.vo not & na

oo~ioe 11\
iO

Br<.Wrnsville o.nd. th~t SCQt1on f!.~....

tllo lu.st year?

tral.y 1'!1UOh, I hnve t:aon confined rnootly. to

tho offloa a.nd tho men undor me me.de thoco trive.
Q You~ hon{!q'Ui, .~tG~u

A

Uy h~~oo.r:tero

u.:t:G

ti.t Sr.n Mtoii:to?

are at

t&l.

Antonio; yoo 1 st:r ..

Q Ila.Ve tlle!'G OOell o.ny OOl'lplGinto filed t:i.tb YOl.\ Qn the !'tJ,rt o:('
l.o;;1 t.tbtding c,, tizcna a.o to ci,,n.y oWJrt a.oto on the ~ of. Oa.,!lt .

Hn.nocm that ~rould diGClU3.lify hbn,. in your cplnion, t':com t»~
VitJ01

A I htwe hoard

ttl'

Q, Hee thoro been
A

no, oir• n

neno .

c.a1y e>ompl.&.int file-cl Q{1iinct him \1he..tovor-?

incofa.r u.o

<ll.1.%' \"l"O~k

or aey

othe~ .

Cl There ia oomothine a.bout o., ~or otrtld.nc; e. r.c.tter J.n s n
Mtonio at tho aatl F-ra.nc>itCcQ Ca.£e, do you kn.011 a.nyat,nc· about
1~

I

:ret.d. :lt in tllO ~:i: tho

otbor tl\11 th:J.t le tho ;1~st i boo.rd

of it.

Q You htt.trc no !)e~aonM. itlforrtltl·U,cm tl.bcro.t the.t?

Q·

Uow rtitmy of tho l'1.t.t;ecrs db you l~nou peroono.11r?

A

I poz-tJonally kna\v Cs.tpt . Stovcnn ~n ho wa.o in tho oMr1ff' c

offioo J.n

$-.;'1n

Antonio ior a. nwn'ber '3f yoa.wo; leter v1$.th ·he

polioo dQpu.rtment. end lC:.ter lw t1ont with tho
then I 1'.a.ve mat Ca.pt . Vl:right ru'ld qW.te n

r~l"Ot

too ot the

2t\ '
different times !n nty exper1anoo th~t I huvo
Texas State Library and Archives Commission

4nd

l':me;oro n.t

come 1nto oonttl.ot

 For inct&.nce~ X go ·to uerocaca.; I mat d1ffe~ont aazaeanto

w1 tJ •

tmd d1ffo).1011 t ?!en dffi'tn thoro \7llo

I
~

mi~t

n.os!.otod me on thoao rnn!ttoro

lw !nll'est:te,o.ting.

Y0'0.2 inventigati01lo nte coniina.a. to the Fedeml v! ola.tiono?

A Yeo :t ;ro ~l:O n~·" :l.nto~oted in tho otu:~eQ Sto.~
\'IOf.!a

whether or riot you have .uoen any l'one0ru tthon they
intrud.01?tiOd o!l° i1n a oeem:ttlgly i:ntoxtoa.·tijt\ O(md.1 t1ont

J.,. Rua :air .
Q

You. hr.wa not otlcn anytb!.11~ like thot?

A Uu. oir.

Q ~h6\.t ' o all .

Tiit!'? C.HA!nt.'1ll :

Anything further., sentlsmcn9

no.vu you {mybody

0100?

it ha.VO ac>t t'VI<>

tEIW.:RAL HARW:
~mt

more, 1£ Ur. (Jn.ru.iloa doeo

objeQt .

~

·m!lTATOR P.AGE ~
tm " OAiJAm~~;

Jt~V'.o

;rou a.ny ol,jactiotJ?

I~ona wt;

a '.i l .

J

I

<lBI·l't1th!, HAatl:.i'T :

I \11ll put Ool.anol Ohaz>a on "

- - - - - - - - - -- - -

COLONEL F. A. m!A.'T?A,
h.tt.vi~ig

ft:.r.ot ooc.n nUl-y owom,, tor>t~fied bofore

a.o followo :

(E~w.n5.Md

tllO

comx,11ttee

by GGnem:t. Hrn.• ley)

Q Givo ~mt~ n.ooe t\I tlte (Ji:cmo~t~phGx·?
A Ch3..ou.el F. A . CfhSi)U. .

do you livo!

Q

11h.or~

A

a~.l1 Jl1n.to111 o. B~c.:i·

Q

I v;!:ta (1,.0k you
c round tho

county "

,_f you

~11\mr'-lle

o.r.o famtllaw w1 th bor@r
uect1on?

A l tw •
Q

I vri11 nak )rotJ. 1:: ye.at lmow O~t . rtanson?

A Very \7Cll .
~

:

Hem long lO,ve you t~Olm him?

2n6
A Perho..po ior tho laot £!ftoen or oi teen
Texas State Library and Archives Commission

y®~ .

00111.U. tiono

 Q Do you

kno~

hie

gen~r.

1 reputation as a.n officer

~nd a~

a

tnttn, 11 i o character?
A Yes, .! kw11t.

Q. What ia that reputation?

A His

is good no

rcpµte~ion

~

me.n.

~nd

an an offioer.

Q He,ve you kn.own of him mis·treat:l.ng t:.nY'body that he would

ai:r•

:reet in the performa.noe of hio off1c:ta.l d:Uty?
A No ) air.
Q

Have you l::nown of him taking the siue of ~rleosneoo or anu1oting or condoning o:rime1

A On the oon trtt!'Y •

knovm of him enoou:r.o.ging !?0-ngero to commit crime

Q Rave y01.1 over

or condoning

tbci~ not~

whenever thay

di~

oo?

A lfo , oi:r .
Q Do you knon \1hethe1' or not he uoed every effort to keep the

l.'angar fol:oe in geiod oondi tion and aoove ori tioi:em?'
MR. CA!iALES:

I make the same objeotion, that he is leading

his vt:i.tnesa.
THE CHAIRMAN:

What 1170..8 the question?

GENERAL 11.ABLEY:

Dqen ha know Whe t her or not. Ca.pt. !·Ia.m1on had

advised G.nd encoumgod tha

rang~re

to conduct

themsel~ea

pro-

perly .
~E'E

a.tIAIR!WT ~

He o~in aa1~1er tha.t quention .

A Ca.1rt . Hanson,. on the contl.'ary.

I kno'.'1 peo.:1le calling a.t hio

office ve:r:y often# being oonneoted with the Governor•n otaff,
a.na you rnay aee men that keep in t ouoh w1 th the bo:r.dor oondi-

tiona > and ! go to the Oovernor•e office and l know the rules
h0 says to hie

capta:lno to tr/ to deal with tho people a.long

the border anti even

Tti th

the peo1.,1e of llexioo, to be friendly

With ther:t.
Q

t will ask you if you were sent to the

bordo~

loyalty cpeeches uometime last aummar?
A I uae duri1'lg the waf.; yeo e1r.

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

..

to mo.kc Gome

 ~

t1r;k you !.£ dun~

l ·v111

thtit tieo f<>t'- rnde ~>€.Wh<Hl :.Mivio1ng

tho t~a,;ic:;ms to bo p~triotio t~ericD:na C.n8. c/ci~~ 11"! the ,t..,-nor-

iec:n 5ovornrnont?
tl'f}E Q&lrot~ :

\'loll -

n~Jtt.J~t:

Gm?EllflL
e;e~

t¢

'tHE

OIIJ\.!RMAN~

t v1uni: to

l.~ntl

Ul-> to tho .q.ucetioRt .

l rr11J.

1;l;t£?.;t ~

llEI~EP.lt

! t7iJ.l bsnr jO'l).'1: qi,.eotion .

W.nt.EY: Q! At llatt tim

tho o.uoot1en

!f()l.'t d.$.ti d1-n0\J.t10

publ lo~~t no 1:0 a~t . Ilt;i.neo111e t.";t ~t.10.u:: ~\'.!C!:'tis ~1112 people
in

t~t ~Ot"tnOV!"llO

om.mi.. ~'?

A I w·L-n n1tll CSP"'t . ~n;;m,-

!

\700

1:ith tho cacro·t G01""1oo mon

r,:i . v,r.'r& men e.nct ! nm>oz- h!J.tl>:Cd ~ Uttl~;;.n l'. ord a.~S.~lilt Capt •
t~on;

on the

told me tl1ct1

oein~~...v . .

tlto peo lo of tho ~c~ mo G~dO

'~e l'-3 oc.t~.ofj.~d ~11 'f:h

ca,.:.t .

~~®1.l sr11C\ VH)ro

glAd

to n..1~e :nim at the hw.;,4 01~ thG r....!tGv~
..
. flJ:+~aft
. , .
Q l w;.l.1 u.ok ~~au if 'M r. tu..:n:...!oe &d n<tt lMJl:o_ ~ ~~q11 l~out that
£18..\110 ti~titt ~,... n~n wu.~ th~t,'

when ;tuu

w-'01,-; 11.t, t~c-adou?
,.

A Oor.t!tif!!G b1. tho
Q

Of th!t yet.ti,..?

A Nineteen

e~gnte~n .

Q · I w111 Ml~

yati S.f trr. 0•},Yi~lea did not .rna.J~o u

POCtU)f,¢n~

A

no &a.

!t?
A Yoa~ aix- .

State
Library
and Archives
Commission
21 Texas
,
Q About
f.out- montho
~n-o?

..

.
\

\

I

.\

.

 100 .

A

Ye~.

Gtr.
Q Tho..t•o all .
~IWD BY ilR. CANALES ~
Ool.Onol~ !. n

Q ?ic.m j

w1·oio you

ot

tt~.t

1. t not

cl.

fti<:.'t tbu.t aubncu..uont th(!reto I
o:j./·~i tu.de

l we.IJ vGX'f :tn.tob mtsto.lton nc to the

Mr. t1M~i1 in ~g:i.o:.l'ld to thf> mttl.'ti.,&"ec. pOit>c:t ~W'ttl4 ~ tho

ri;.~eet-a?

A :You cl.id ..iob tay ~thl~·tg lbc~t

Capt .

~bCJu.t n. c~a Oi'~ F.io Gr"'.nda 01 ~J;

a.

cu.n uao kil4,ett

%~1· .

llo.nson.

Ytili tcild me
~oxi•

Str.i?:r 001.ulty, \fheto n

l'ou OJ.4

~wt

comt)l< .in i.\.bout Ca:pt .

Ito.Mon .
Q Did):t' t I t~ll vou tbete tlt~t Ur. l~cn h~

1

i'lrt mo th<>f;G

nfiidn.vt ta mid 'I a.dvlaed: txi . HJ.noon ba,t it ttla.~. mtrdssi: in tho
nacond da~tJO, an:i thtit Mr . it&Wo1l ,1a.a :1.1y n_g

*lnn

v:l)d c~t,c,

to tiea n<1nar~1.

J\ i<n"-. i~h« :totter ew11 to 001
Q ITCitVn Y<lll (lQt th~"h l.et·her?

t.> t..iBtify
i1tii·lg1 ®out 1t y
",

•

'·to

·.

\\

tJSa Gel~~~ at+~~~ ,.\

.• ·

ii. · I h;~V<m • t (;01j i'i; .

. 1\

Q Wi,.l -;<tJ intro~tQa tbAt aotte1·r
A ! f I f~n.d 5.t; X dan tt ln~l t.ht~·c,

that

\

\~\

:t

did

lth it .

\

\ \find.

:J,f.

\

I

it~

\

:I\

J' ,:-. . ..

.

A

I

hlWG ?mo.m O'O-~t . H;J;)l.Ui; ~ Ginoo ha

f'hO.l ~ p:n"h~s Oh.'r)out r11xttJen yct<..-:ro
Q Diel yw ld1.G"-."7 h.1tn a·e 'til10 tirao he w
Qlno:i:n.l

~cs?

t!t:.O

l\

•

'~

Unit1!1cl Qt~to

t!(!O .

\

· \

~ !>,.-:L~~.to deteot.~ ro\ :r~-

gl

~
'~ ." / \
j~ j

1i l'ihent
Q. 1':ri1mte detapti.ro :to:i: ('..il1(J1'el lliWl'

A I don• t l\nn¥i ~Ahotlm:t he wa.tl p~iv~to doteat:tve to~ Gttne:t'~ ~
lltnz)- I }.mow he

Wt\a

oant by Generl\l nt.o.s on

~

roton!on

t \11:.10
\

~,

United Staton, ir'-.t'U not nan. pt-J.vo..to dctaot:tve .

Q Did you

kn0t1

him ct tho tima ho ~as living no~r f'\tr~ioo, ·tlia

T~ pigo o!l :t1el <-- n, l'Then Uue~ta

\1U.G

tn cont~ol

A Yeo,
s 1r . and Archives Commission
Texas State
Library

•

I '1

ot J!~.:..010

I

\

\

 7.

.

ml ;; nv.e~~!ett\,, {,.l>l,\d v3.otting f~1utot tho ex:iatipg c;ovomrnent?

A ik,.. X .(L{m •t know tb~t ,

be

\"' ·G c.unut to
p~:t:e;t~n.~

sa.tter l'

I J:rHr~1 th.et he hwd t;een u.rto ateu .nnd

~l&eoutel\
~.

llf

qttout1on purely

!

A pu~oly param1'\l mtt0r.

Q.

A\11'.! tt".cn hQ

~M

02do:!' Df t:10 f)

fr~im

oent ,o-ve:r

e!n'rtll01\t > it na.o

c.

pe~11r;nci.1 .

rtoxi<!Q na en

undcel~ble

c::. ti ..

\ tt:0il 1'·

i:noo.,

A I d\:i"m.'t

. ,

~

Tfe!'E'J

mt a.loo

yoi.t

t-:t··}.~.t f.~o~otcl.

t

ho l.Cft tho oount.ry for? oa:fety •n
.~ntl.1Gted

noyem

nt Bronr.avillc

oa.t~ .

ro~ ~tl.kine;

po.rt

111

i\~V~l.Utiont

Yeo, tl1:.t .

Q ¥c.&

we~

frond. gttilty ~ wore you no...?

A ·na.<n

tJ.u•,t

~thine;

CE!!nlAL flJ~HU~Y !

to d.O w1t11 thio trial?

I objt'Jot ~

A If. thu'l: MO cnything to do \':'ith thtn tr! .• 1 '1111 0.UCJ\ GZ. G:ey
~1.UGnt!on

~;

vou rum.t .

% bOl~.a~o,

01:'.t!lJRJ!mt !

UndCU:

the :r.uloa udoptcrd, WG ht.\VG

it..tlopt-Od the rolef:l of tho 6..io'tr.iot o(;u,?"t, ood n.o you aZ>e n the
t'I! t1H?IU'J eta?1d; I bcl1t)V0

rar.

ta.'ltil.OG ll~O (], ri(li\t ·~o t>.Gk

that

QU$h"tion.

tt

'fo:~ ym\

it\

not

o.lG{) ft\dtdto~rJX'l...t

mrcntt \ti1le f.011 tttl'1.n3 po.1·t
tl\a Goiul!'itl RevoJ.uts.cn and ~loo tor violtl. ·tt\Z' tli.G nottt.t'Ul-

.:L'ty 1t,Ul1(j

T!{g OH!lJ:mtAJ'f:

Ao I unde1rstn..n~t 'the ~-0.G, e,e Q\.V!aOfJted by

Ju.L.tgo 'N. dr"10ll,. 'i.f tho wi tn"Qoos

~lrod

n. qt\~Ustion involving

1rernl 'l:m:'J.'i tt.."'ie i ho Wc.>Uld hllve th'1t 1'lc:l1t ao

lJGo.1'1~6

".t.-ttte1' of ia-ot:l~-~hrrJtit to eek lltm tbio Q.ueotion .
ri

'1QU!1 be i1t10'thcx tJ~a violo.t!om of tho nOW'"ruJ.ity of

touahet) upr,n l!lot~f.t.1 ttlt'p ... t-udc ~

tJoul<t .
A

!Chi~

Go

Ant: rQr

~haatt~

on the

Q.uoatiCln

U;

oount17

l a.m of the opinion tha.t it

the queottcn. Oolono:t .

212Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 tm. OJUilAU?S: Q. Wez.ie l' en.._ not indleteC.?
A 'Yeff • £li.r.
'

Q And you vore
Q

·r:n~.t

ocnvt~oted?

•t, till .

CENERtlL Ut~tr.Y.' ; ~ ~
.l.~a.~ hR:~,. ¢'Q ~
Att~e~icrn..;u

i

rr.

a.n

.\ba\tt the tJi.t:iO th.tit OO»t . nruitt°':n j,1,14 to
:undot.~1i:·abl.e o.tti~{en,, pl~etty" ntHtl' o;re~; othoi:

!lttO. to ler;.vo tt~o Pnde i al)le ott1.~o:r10 of t.?l$,t -eountr.,t

.~o ~~ thou.srutdr: in thic countZ")" ~uot aa good

cm oottcr men

thttn Ct!.Ml.oS "
Q

t u111 n£k you ttm question tf 1t ~Ota not a foot tlio.t Er .
0(.UW'.loo .&.c v 11' higll in lll.e pro.ic

of C-a-pt . ltS\;!1tfon s.i th. t

"1Ji. a~- l1l Ss9tsinber on tlw bO?der \;hen li~
Ji

Me thc,t s:ooooh?

rre CPti<L c~,t . r~soJ:i wno a,n td.0-al r.ie.n; ii.1lat 06vait-no~ IIobby
hr.4 put tf.fl !d~a.l mo~ on tho trmg0%' fo ~;co .

Q :t ~d'.:tt. iWl: YOl.J. 1.1! it t~ni~ not tJho.,tl.1 &..fter ti'ttltt thet ())pt .
!lr: ~.mi. }JC:9"Ltn his !rrve~t'.!g;.i,t10.1i ·of the Glo:?ticn :t~o..~J.o a.~1n
Lhex•e?

'1 ··.

A

".x"co , nix .

ll

lYld ~·eu. crvcr. ben.:r ef ~.ac.le

t~bOut Ca.pt ;

1·....won t'tnl.if. he oo~ t.o ~ke 1.nveotiet).i~ion of titelle $lootlon
frorule?
" ··o,

i.1'~

not to mt> that ,. lma\1 .

Q Dlu t!10 n nge:,:a do n:oct of 'the ln'\l'~~ti :atS.ttG ~.¢un the!·o?
A

Bo ~ unde1';ltooa..

Yon r;mm of the-- -?

Q Ott' t.hoQa pt•!r.-:!'t.ey- -

A

P~1oary · el.Cction-~

~

!'I?1tr~l'Y oleotion fmwl.s ?

f,

Yos"' oS.l."1'

Q

Violfl.tion ot the no.1 pritno..w oleot 1on

lf.l,\1 .

EXAUIHED m!' iliSll . OAUALES :
)

· Q You oey that I nt:~v-ox rr4'1o o.ny oompla;int v..bou1~ o pt . 1'. noon u·ntil

Bi*tor tho inveotinat1on ot thor~e elnotion fmudn : you ~'l o.fter
the lflst e~mer.~..1 &lootlon, that 10 tho only !nvoat,fi-i~.:t1on

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

rou

 CVG:- ~ej after tho ltlnt t:1lootio11 ln Wovam~~?

/i. .. ~~ou .are e.ln~~~a ~111 of ~!'e,toe fo!.·~-

.r.ntr.fc:r my quoot~.on? (La.~t prooed:tng C1UGut:.i.on ti~M)

Q

A i~ Ct>i."tl)ltl'.!lod,- ~~· t Ol)ltplein 'W'l.til the1 went ·~:o invostie;e.tllng tha <'f1cet~.on :t~,:ni~ao <iQ.m -on tbs l:U.o a:r.r~\C<1 ,

<t Don •t l'l'l\l knc.w lie ;n(..;v\Ji• bwauttgo.uea au,vtld.ng ttc.;.ti~. fJ.f·h):I: ·b.hc .
Novomoo}: elootion?
A Mo 1 :t don' t ~o;<J it .
Q Co.pt . niltloon neve~ invoatiWlhOO. u:.iyth!ng unt.;.,:t. tl~to:~
A 1. cll'}n' +. know 1 t •

NoVOil

r . ....

Q Bm~ ~~ yoo b'lo-.v ! :r.ova? oo~~lBin cl of nnytl1i.flg until n,ftox- the

1:!1v:oottcation1
A ¥ou l'1ero a1t~u~'a .~tl o~
Q

Wtti..t

nn.n :i.n

~~iJ.n , ....

SQptooibo~1

A You i'la-r~ u'-.1·.;~y~ :£till of :p;caioo .

Wn e h~ htin l>omA n-%0 ~n!nu nn

ycai" GQo!i, .....
Q 'l'h<.?n in Cto'Uol/u-~ I

\1 l'.;il~e

Y'>U iilW.t let~t~ .~

A You 1~:o't~~ ma n let·Z;~:~ a.'bout th{) ~ lli1'8~ Y~ d$.dn' t b:tu.mo

t.

H 1U~Oll f{)~ L ·,~ tht'.t ~W.tJ~ 1 '£

rm.ta bs 0Ut.oba1- ! t1'1!ote yo1~ u.bout lt'l

Q

A To nho•1 you he>?; t~oh,- ·
ii

IE OHJ1~; :

~nt!e~n, 1tuGt

e.. raomcnt . trow

I

~..Qk tlUtJ \"J:ltnaoe

I

ouch ciuesti-ona u.s 7ou ~la.."ttt nua. he . u.~~t a.nawQ:i· them.

J.m. C!AlUifJ!!s: ~ . t mtr!t'l to ;vou i'.a. ootobe~~ ;; ·trrotc to
I

tn thu.t le;l~·~i$r•.-.. Mt1 the». u~J.,a~~er1..... Ji

·:r

too

tmd

avo.~ ~1r.1l'°1rl'.noel

a.~thit~{t to

y:cru.. wa.o tn ·t-hq;t :t~·tto i 'o f Oo.to}'>S~ . b.efo~ ;r~'ut
tw1c:;nty ~a or :ico~i'bll;t 1n0w ifflfu. ~ 'allil N®ol!).;.illl' 3li;¢~i.0111\\.
A 1' ...0 1

y,ou

W~<:stet it 'bqfe>~(I tl~b NCN~lill :r ~:lt>Oti;cm .;

'rl!1! ~1:.IPJ!i!lH
! . l \llt'n.tld like
Q

;U~ yw ~ine ltl.ok tn ~n Jlnton!c?

to so

J

"W

®on ~ PQ.DClblO .
•

O".l

'

'

!

ha.Ve tho lottar thoJ::O thct Hr. ~?4'7.les v;:rot6. you?
\

\\

\

.

\

A Ho MkOd me to send !t to Gon01•01 ~rlw and Gov~i:no~ ilobt,yi·.
Q Uh.ere !n toot lettet"?
\.
Pcrha!)u
!n rill'and
pon~ieooton.
TexasA State
Library
Archives Commission

 .160 .

Q \70 ~ll.1 t"e!! you cthen yeu go homo,-

ill be gk\d to oond it to ynu .

A . If I hll'V'o 1t, 1
Q 110 will n·k

to

!t

m&,t l

~.m .

W~ H. :Sler.tsoo •

1~ g,.~

A I Wl11

to ttlJ,tl it. i.f you Mvs it, to the oom1ti9.ttoo.

!{ctJ.

to t.\a so.

'!:he

!'Xm'1.et.:J,:

1

~:V..t.timleh!p

bet.teen

YOU

l'.nd.

)!r,.. Ct';Mleo~

ho,e ! t bo ·~tof ore boon plea.oa.nt?
A Voey pJ.Oal l~lt indeed.
Q

Uhen did thio first

A 1 6.idn •t

ootl"tL~ent

Jm~ thel?~ W'lri

ooour?

o.ny; I oat:?e here

fto'l!

Son Antonio on

onother ?rAtter., Q mu:.. ~ ie
A ! ~

Ci H01
A

a.

wcw.r ooo~O.t1on
~e1st und

l.on~ 11n,ve

or bublnooo?

0011opo.par •"".rln end a ha.lf-•10.y fn.roo!' •.

ycu 11v d !11 S~'l .Antonio?

~.~ce ~ io~J,.Q.ho~ld .

Q 1:10~ lfOl.1 l~~d in S~n A.!!'J.t on1of

~

~ ~a11t

to O.'$k ytri..\ t!•io, COlonel ,- tho.to lw.D t-x;cn oor..;c ·hina

o:c.id. '-:;.bout
r~r .

A

no ~ o

Co yvu

-r-·o •10.i tsr balng ot;mJ.ol: ®e.r the hetl(.l

kn~ o:ey1H.;i~

o..bo11t

t.rrmro wa.o a win I und.0rsta.nd waa o.

~

a.

th~t?

apeo1~1

1:ange1'. ht kio.o tli"Unk

tl1G:t'e •

Q

'l'hO

:t"J'J',\~ Y.' U0..9?

A I d1®' f ?~Q'l\1 ?Him ~bey ~0£~!'.i:'ed

to

e.-0n~~:1l i!tt-Jtles-

o., .o.·ua. tbnt r:w...~ ~;e,o 2\;po!'tod

Hnd he woo imeiec.U.o.toll" e ~O:P.:.:l~a. on

th~n

Qh~g~ ..

Q Do y()I; li.:n~ th~t?

A I J~m tho t1l~....~.,.. h0
Q

})& ~Patt k?').(~

e:.:.mo

to tho ®fa &10nk ..

.h_~t Of fOUI' ()\'rtt l:llOfr/ledgO?

A I did r&>t oco the .fight. of. courua; ! aw:; tho ~Mgc)1' .
GEmmtt ~ .RLE"i~ Po1" the l:enof~t of the ooo!!'ittee, ! u111 oto.te
l'>..o .':'aot:o of that ceGO ~d the pzoof rtill !;UGtfi~n !~ u.t oroai-.:10 .

21a

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 161.

(~!?'. Cl?nalea interposed

Tffg CE'.~rr.:UN:
~ct

t!mo.

a.1 ehjeotion.)

T think that o3n be ste.tod

the Judgo examino Col.O~epa.

:m.

TIDWELL:

.A

! didn't see the fight, no, etr.

stand

You aaid

r wmln ' t lonk1ng for

Q

a.t tho ·proper

yott

df.d not aea that t1•ansaot1on?
Yon getrC;1orion under..

tht~t kind of ·tronbl<;.

!n thnre an;rth1ng in tho rolatlonsht.p bet•r.eon yourself

Capt. ifonr-mn that nYQkca you b:t.uset1 in his favor?

3tlt!.

.A

Not in the least. I would testify arq~htng against h1m

that I know.
Q

Is there anything, ony <IJ.sneroemcnt oaoaaionine a feeling

th.et has aanaEtd 30u to teati:!y un:ruvor::.b'.1.:1 to,·:ards ?l..t.·. Canales?
A

The truth of the m3tter, I have a

Hot 1n the last.

very hJ gh rogara for the young man.

ot
genoral

aa a

\"ia,y.

your

0 1Ntl

knowledge o"! anything. in a

that ,~·outd disqu.ali.fy Capt. !ianeon :rrom aorv!oe

Hanger·~

Q

Not in tile le aot.

q

T;o you know enything v.'f th refcrnnce to tho dlaqualii'i-

oation of u:ny other Ranger th.ct hse bean around ::>an t~ntonio
or in that aommuni ty'?
.1

That la the on1y one,. the one re!orred to, and I report-

ed it to IJ.anettal ~arley an<i he \·.as d1Sol1!lrgeC1 imr:iecUatel7.
Q

You

A

To General Harley.

Q

You did

A

Yes. sir.

~eported

it?

yourael~?

THAT IS Al'.aL a

E.T..A!1Ilm'D DY

Q

m.

KNIGHT :

Colonerl, are you advised , or not. that t his ~anger that

had tho di fficul ty with the waiter down there had been di scharged
at that t hat time?

Texas StateALibrary
Yes , and
e1r. Archives Commission

 Q

You unouratood that he had been?

A

Yes. sir.,.

rm~ CHJ~!::i.7A1i:

that time or

You nwon the t ho had 'boen dt aaharr,ed l:e fore

afte~:ar<1:)?

2IIR. KlHCKT:

No. boforo.

G:f':l~~ffiA!.1 H.:\!U,f.Y:

:r~m Off~\IR!it\11:

He was diaohargod by the-....

:1e are a sking tho \Titneaa •

! d 1dn' t :-:no-.-:- the mnn.

..A

TIP·; C:iA!lUM!J:

You any that you reported th!c Imnger to

Yea, sir.

A

And he a3s iume <l i ately

~isohergodi

.:.

Yes. sir.

Q

'~'hen ha ·r.as dlsohurged by

I

him, v.-aa

uen. n.arl&y after you reported

he~

,.

• 1.

1cs, sir.

Q

~at

l'l XA~Ur:f~D

is whst I wanted to nsk

hi~.

HY MR . KNICHT:

l
Your 1mpreas1on ia that he weo discharged a~ter the
occurrence ·f
A

Yes , sir.

If he h3d been discharged bofore you bad not been
advised of it?
Q

.A

Q~.k

.i,eraonf!lly • n9•

All right. now •
EY,.AM!ll.AED BY

Q

MR. T!nwmr,r,,;

Now. d1d you e oommunloation or address a letter to Gen.

Harle7 or to the Governor either eavistng either o~ them of this
mieoonductI on the part of the Ranger down there?
A I called the General.
he lmmed1atel7·--

General ttarley over the'phone and

Do 7ou know now that you talked to General llarle7 h1meelf?
Texas StateQLibrary
and Archives Commission

21

 A

Yea. air.

Q

You recognised hls voiae?

A

V:hy ., ! do. I talk to hira almost every da:r.

Q

What was th$ substance ot that 0011vereati.on?

A

I told hitn ebot1t th!a Itanger whom I didl1 1 t know: he

told mo he was a Ranger from El Paso. end he

~aa

drunk. ! didn't.

know anything abou.t his i'ight1ne; but I told him there was a

Hangar in n state of !ntox1out1on antl croating trouble and
making

fl

l)U.n play and 1mr.1edietety ! understood he telephoned

to the deteeti ve et Sen Anto11io to oatch hi.m· and land htm 1n

the

p~oper ~lace.

telephone that to you or eid. you .1uet hear 1t?

Q

Did

A

Uo., he told me,.

Q

ne to1a you that?

fl.

Yea,

}H)

~tr.

R XflT1I!fr:n nY Mn. 1\'ll!CHT:

When you -n1aro tn1.k!nt; to Gnneral Harley he loft the

Cl

itnpreaaion on your mine that he d1d not knov.J the r:isn was dis- ·
charged~

that io tbo impression you cot in the

conve~satton

ovor the 'phone, that General Harley d!dn ' t knor tr.e man wee
d1ao~erged?

A

!lo. air.

Q

You didn't glve him the nnme of the man, you didn't

remembor it 7onrsolf. just a Reneet?
A

1. don't think ~ geve htti tho nnme end ! cl on• t remember

the name of the man ' riow.
Q

You were not advised and have not been advised up to

this time. t?hen 7ou were tel king to General Ilarley and before

the ooourrenoe in the restaurant took place. that the captain
in charge there had already dieohsrged that Ranger?
A

That I did not know.

!lfIGHT: That ls all.
Texas State tm.
Library
and Archives Commission

 EXf.liINED :BY MR.
Q

CAUAT~S:

Is it not a fact that you made a at~tement when you

and I spoko

f:ro~

the same platform in th9 early part of

Septem.ber. th~t Captain Ranson was plaood at the head. of the

Ranger foroe at your reeor.nncndatton?
A

Yer., a1r.

Q-

You atsted -you were lookinp; out for a man het"& and.

there that was. qualified for the off!oe and you founa a good
Rcplublioan.- Captain nnnson, and 7ou recommended him and you
were proud that the Covernor acted on your recommendation and
~ ppointed

A

Hanson?

Don't put ~o~ds in my mouth that I did not saJ• ! said

this to you. that ! was giad to ano CaT't• Hanson--! wasn't the

one on the committee. there wor.e othor men on tho cot.m:'littee,! said this to ~u.

r

~·as glad to see a man that was humane,

~-humnno, at the head of the Ranr, o~ foroe, a. man that knaw

oonili ti on~ alonB t.lte Rio Grande, llecause ha baa been there for

many, many ye Ara,- be epeske ::=pnnlsh aa wel1 as the natives

anc1 'knows merohsnts. business mon, lawyers. cottonrnen. - he
knows every one the!'e; ! told you !

wa3

glm1 to aeo

G'Uch

a man

st tho head of the Rengcr forco rogat"i1loas of hls poli tios.
Q

\';ean•t the mayor, Albert Droml, also v:ith us at that

time?
A

r don't know whcth.er he war nrP-eent '..'i'hen you anti I had

thet oonvereetion.
Q

You made that statement f.t'om the platform.- didn't you

tell the Moxtosn people there 1n Spaniah, antl you matte pr.ac:tioal~y
tho same epeeoh in ~nglish. and I esy a very good an4 a very
eloquent apeeoh,- didn•t you toll them that you reoommended
him to him and at the time you told him you had gone around and
found a man fit for the plsoe and found ?Er. Hanson. who was a
Repbblioan, and notwithstanding that fact. you recommended
him?
Texas State
Library and Archives Commission

 A

I wasn't

looking !or a man,- I say r ondorsed the

man.
THE CHAIR~[Alf:

He juat ~sked :rou a question. ,.,n~m-er "yes"

or "no".
A

I say no.

I wasn't lookinglbr the man.
/J.nj :fur·ther q'ij.ostions?

TEE CltAIRHAN: I understand.
liow r

LE. ian:GHT:

V\'Ol.4ld

suggest that the General explain

to the committee--EXAl!nIBD BY Mrl. :loHII.T,I.N:

Q

You said when you learned of thts

occ~rronce

in

San Antonio · you put in a call for Qf.)n. Eerlcy?

A

Yes, air.

Q

Some one anS\\erea thet you recoguizeC. aa the vo1oe

of Gen. Harley?
~·s.s

A

Yea: I will testify it

Ueno1·al Harley.

Q

You explained to him the oonditton of this occurrence

over the 'phone?
A

About the Ranger being drunk and making gun plays.

Q

\'that t1Ui Gen. Harley say to you'?

A

Gen. l:tarley told me to t.r1 to land him in ttfront" and

get the city detectivos to look for
EXJ\JUUI~D

BY

:JR.

hi~.

LACKEY:
l~angar

Q

Did youever see this

A

Yes. air. Ile oame in my ntoro.

Q

In a drunken condition?

A

Yes, eil'.'.

Q

~at

A

Yea; he told me when he oame in, he was a Texas Ranger.

yourself?

was after this supposed gun play?

He was appointoa under the ~revloue administration.
Q

But you saw him after thts supposed gun play?

A

!es. sir. Re was a special Ranger.

EXA~fiUED

Q

I

BY MR. TIDWELL:

belie~e

t understood you to say that he

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

~as

appointed

 \

by the previous a dministration?

A

Yes , sir.

Q

Did you see his oommisaion?

A

lie showed it to me . He kept talking to me about being

a ranger, and being drunk I says , "Are you a ranger?" He says ,
"Yes, I am,n and pulled out his oomm1ss1on.
HR . TID1!.'ELL: That is all.
E~MIN3U

Q

Q

B'Y ~TOR WI!,LIFORD :

Whose name
...

'\f

t_t .

--·

~as

9igned. to the ooJJlr.lJssion?

!!utchins.

All ::."ight .

He claimed to be a ran,?; er in your store

aftarwardc?
A

Yes , sir.

Q

You thought he was a r anger?

A

Yes ;

THE

CHAIR!L~N :

~ffi .

KNIGHT :

and co~plaints finally began to come.

I think we understand that matter .
Gentlemen of the committee, I think, --! have

just appeared on the seene, I think at this particular time
the privilege ought to be accorded General .tiarley to explain

fully the relation of this drunken man to the service.
THE CRAIID.fAN :

The matter is in this oondi ti on: General

Harley is simply askine to put these wi tnE~sses on the s tand
this afternoon who ~anted to g~t out of to\Tn in a hurry. ltater

on this testimony will come more properly.

'I

\

ED.

J.

HA1mER ,

first having boen duly sworn , testified before the
committee , as fo llows :
( Tllli CHJ~ IRH.Al:T :

22Texas
~

Q Your namo is Zd. J . Hamner?

A
Yea,and
sir.Archives Commission
State Library

\

 Q

You live at Sweetwater?

.A

Yes , sir.

Q

Your business is what?

A

! J!n'ly.l'lr.

EXMUIIBD :BY BR . KNIGHT. on behalf of the

~djutant. ~eneral's

Depurtmont :

Q

Judge. where do you reaide?

A

Sweetwater,

Q

Were you resioing there in August , 1918?

A

'Tes , sir.

Q

Judge. you gave the State Counoil of l,efense your

Te~as.

full coo-peretion and assistance, did you not?
J,

'.'!ell, I quit. MY TJracttce and closed my of'iioe and

attended to the government ' a buatnoss i.n

th~t

and other depart-

mEmts.
Q

'"hat col\c1 ition of a.ffnirs ex:lsted there to c1 isturb the
...

ci ti '{eno in that nf>ighborho'>d regarding recret armed resistance to
th<~ oon~rnript

.A

act?

I oannot say 'thn.t 1. t re i'er.,'od to the seeret armed

res1 3tanco or the conscr11)t net, but as chQ!rtia.n of the County
Council of Defense , in the various 1nveutt3stions that I made

at the time ! ·found a con std orabl(\

ln~lcos

elqment in !Tolan

County, in ')ne part of l t th.er€. ';'an nc:rhsns fifty or sixty

German

~smilies

and I didn't find a loyal aitizen among them

at f1 r at . !n the town of Sweetwater there

~as

a character of

citizens that were known there as F. !'-P.A. 's,

They were not

openly disloyal but they were not loyal. The loyalty had to be
brought out of them and brought to the surface.

r think j ust

before the council got to work pretty vigorouslyt or while.
perhaps; we were organizing, anonymous letters we re received

by parties there threnten1ng their lives and properties. I

222Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 received one myself notifying me that I was to be killed.
One night a fire alarm waa sounded-THE CHAIIU!AH: I do not think we have ocossion to go into
all this.

Q

All right.

services of the

Did you have occasion to enlist the

~anger

foroe?

A

Yes, air.

Q

Did you make the requoet for the assistance of the

Rangers for your oounoil?
A

No, sir; they were there and I called on Mr. Sam Uc-

Menzie. who was in charge, to· furnish us with .Rengers, as our
of~ioers.

Now the reason I did that was, our sheriff and his

deputies were thoroughly in comport and thoroughly loyal
but they were being used almost entirely by the draft board
and the Council of Defense used the Rangers.
Q

In other words , conditions were auoh that your looel

officers could not handle it and you had outside assistance?
A

Yes, sir.

Q

And the same thing was ture 1n several portions of

the west?

A

I oould not say of my own knowledge.

Q

Do you know whether or not

that was done at the solioi-

tation and the oo-o~eration of the State Defense Council

ano

the government?

A

I didn't ask. I thought it was necosaa.ry to set and I

acted in the most efficient manner I oould.
Q

How many Rangers were out there?

A

Well, first and l ast there ws several special rangers.

Q

Yes?

A

Do you want them?

Q

Give the committee their names?

A

Jlr. Barbee, Willia Barbee was appointed special ranger,

as I understood 1t to guard the District Judge there and
there were two special rangers appointed by the Governor to

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 travel around v.1. th :,!r ••Tim Cunningham and ~uard hin.

Q

\.hen wss thet?

A

I cannot give you the exact

tl~a.

I can tell you who

was gov ernor.
Q

Who was governor at that time?

A

Governor P.ex·guson.

Q

No\-:-, go aheacl.

A

Ancl

then as I

unc1 ersiood

it. !moet1·"a ter v-as entablished

as hes.dquar.ters of a co:npany of Uangors bocause o~ it~ railroad
i'acil1 ties. '"here ~":'a~ Capt. r:ensor.i; thc!'e :"as a dark complected

ranger, but

T. have !orgotten his name nov·. And the:n there

wus a tall, thin youns fo llo-r; , and then there v.as ;!r . . ..c.K.onzie
and !11 r • :Bills.
Q

'.7hat was the c··araoter of t he general conduo t of

those rangers in your country out thoro?
A

.As far as I know of the servloes rendered to the

Council . they

~ere

absolutel y porfcct .

Q

Sir?

A

.As far as ! lmov.- and as i' ~r as the services to the

Council. absolutely perfect.
Q

Uow. do you remember the oiromnstanoes of a prisoner

being i ncaraerated by them about Aug. lat , 1918?
A

1lo . I

have no knowledge of that.

~he only

thing I 'WO

know is what was generally repute about the facts. I have no

personal knowledge.
Q

DO

~ou

suoh prisoner by
A

an~

maltreatment or cruelty visited
these rangers¥

know of

No, sir, I don't know any.

Texas State Library and Archives Commission
2B4

upo~

 :Q

l1aa the :e 04'11 complaint lo:ignd bY tho.t p X"isonAl" oz 1110

:t1'iendo "t that tino vzith

you~

oouncil for tht\t maltreat-

rr.em.t?
Ii

lto~

dur~'"'.f?

rd.r;

:tepo~tec1

tM elM)tion tho.t fell it was

't;he country- t hat J>,he oheri££

ot' h5~o

over

ctopu.t-y ba.d miGtren.ted

them and i;l1n.t, \7ao lJ.eod a,gn:t.nat hirn in the e,.soticn .
Q Yen Jw,\'fa bnt ona ia.il tl1aro i'o:r. the. ~t\11ga:r.te o.nd. 'hhe Ui'l.1 ted

Stn.too
A

Yo~ ,

Q

'I.'J1Cl

c.~d

the caunty) o.,.l?

oir .
ch<tr.!tff ht>,a olla;rgo l:r.l'ltl ld.o j:i;l 2,ar of c.11 thG »1·~-nonara?

J. Yetl ) ni:c.
Q rrould it ha.vs beall l)C'.lf'H>i hl~ !or t.l10

%'1.tnze)!a

to ha.·..ro 11tid

Pllilrge m" ·· hti.t jtdl with lt .ha oot1 on4t o.nd ~,reuenoa- ot tho

ahari:f:t who had

Ohn!' .

oZ i ?

A The nliol'!i£ MO cbD.:r.'t:G of ii•, u.nd 0\1~~ '1nder.t.lta.nd.ine; e.t tha:t
t9.t-l~ Wtin thn..t the ahe1'1..:'f had

t.r4ct f!}\::4,~,..41?

ha hncl l'Mt ·a. ba:tl ttb'IVe tJ1 $ jtlt~l !.n
·t~mpt

to

09.!:;G

of

:t 1. V.nrt that

there \ t'"·~ ~mr ~t­

f~1t th<~ l lt'io(ffl.orn ('tilt bf the ja.11

.wn::r~

tlhvt
'

•

put in tl.tfl!'-3,- tho~t:' F .t .•P . • o~- ! t th..~t 'bt1l.'-1 w~:'!
I I
the leyal ei+.1 ~ert~
~oll!'

Q

an

t1aing

I

we:t-~ to c,~r. ~:1 "> J.(?,
\
tJ...'\ · ~:tnrr :H +.\m,tj.c:m. dGva J

ot th:1t to :n

I

\

.c·o
~

:i:ing

1. +. w~

:-

A1: AbilO _ r.na. Otho!' plnnae~

Q Taore 5.s o.

~~

J

tu.temoot J??a.cto h :ro thn.t e-s~.,.ont ~tt f{oE:S!tzie-.

'
.
~
!1'?:'!."'F .~· ~!~ 1 on. o..
\

:,

o.nd prl!.v«.to r,. o. Bl :>.:ts ot the Sta.ta . ·'nfJl"i!
. . '
vbout AU(;N.ot ls·t, l9lS, m.n.ltrnn.t. priaone.r in) th~ . c

..

~

ty ·.

ja.11 of Nolan County ond _abwe thct p~oon:or 1~, ~ unvter'
od trAMG2: .

'

ltt\ve you cvol:* hel'lr.d of :t hAt 11' t'oro )\tlUJt time?

A

no.

Q

nilo 1G the .tirst time you

A

~1e

\

and. l ha"te not heard it 01noo .

I

I

eve~ hea.t:"d

ot J.tt

·~

.l

1o the f1rot time
.. I evor he ·d UcKenz10 ff14 \nille
/ .
u1th m1otronting a pr1soier.
I,

Q l7h1oh aide did the ranger roroo adopt, the

or the
oide and
~ theArchives
lopa.l 01Commission
tf.zono?
Texas State
Library

'

nf~e of tho r.t~? .Ab
I

.

 A

1io~ 11ii!'J ti'Wy wo.rG ii:. 'J:t.'</O~ of

tho 1....,,., nb

L1~ olti~eno .

Q pia. thw cr.t . <;. their Qoo,pe::at~on Gni •~c·:v:i,o.;i: t-c ~ten.!; the
dQ.:'<:noQ Q~urwll ~ &!.~ otl1e~ L.'WT o,bid.tng ci~iz .. nol'

A

i~o

they

i

cat !o;r

ll1!l j}J.~'°lt

Q rJbec;xfu.11y ~~J-!l !~coly

o,ne. tJAy .

P-!1"t (tf .:.io'Lently"t

£Iio.i,cni.ly

tho

i\~;.d

,

1n

cm~. tctri;i ~71 .

q p1' to to tl~~

t ;lo: tth tliO!!.' thoi: nozr."V'i Ji .... th z<J i _ 'the

Ocml

A Abuo:tut j.y •

Q ~
J\

to 11hst

o:t

Q~ hot t!t~r.? ia~- lMt olct.eo of 1eo,plc, - ~tha.t

Tihen?

Ol D~r::t·1 tho ele1~ti on_, tho .!a.uu eix .ol thu i.'t!i~l t4o :.rLJ.;nu"DrO
Yi'e~c thC,X'<) ., ... Wf)~~ ·~

• ~.i

-..... ~ T .l'.I' 1!•

Oh CV'-.¥;. ~- ... • , • u . -

A !lll)t . Ol!ld bs "

MR.
. hio

i'(;Rl):

=w.·

r

l QIJ

d~~

l'LJ,i;S, :tep\ibl!ou.t~t; ~ OCICiU.l • aiD

'.BOl-

1

..1-..;.l

ll~i:.;...m.u.l -0

I d.on tt n... e \7hat a

q.o \"ii th

i

o.bJ c...:.ng Ci• ·1!.C?lOllip .

Tm~ CIIJi!Irul.!l' :

! <ion •t kr..w. ... h0.tt i

na.o .
I

\

.A Yoa,
Q

I

ai~ .

I

And <ntv.dcd to D~lae?

"',

-

\__
A )?a.rd.on mo , I hn<to l'eoo1leotod. tho.t thero TTGG anotboz> Z"UllfP.~, ~-

Who dooperated out thore

by

the name ot Uontaomery snd he W®

tl&e rttt>.@lr I think nho mt.\dG most of tho a.n-eeto ~f tho F .L . ~ ..

A•o .
Q

Thoy uorc o.r:r.eoted Md carried 'b D

lloo and qui-ts

tl.

lot of tho.tn

t:tted at Abilenef
A The onos e.l'.'rented were kapt 1n jn.11 a.t SvT&etwwtser unti l thoi J'

22tJ

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 trial \,a.o l.w.cl, 10 1J!Y underatu.nding, and thcrt ,e_a tc.ko11 "uo l)a.llAo
for the tl'.'1G.l .
Q Who ropttet)entoa. thom?
A

ur.

Q

~a

Ford told me thc~t bo dtd.

thnt John J. 1lo1'd?

A Y.oo 1 tl10

reprooen~ti'\"e i':to

Q He :top t'.Ssented tbein.

I beliGVe t110.t ia 0.11,

W1 th tho l:i~tt1niSGlon of tho aommi ttoc, Jtld.~

'llre OHA!RUAM i

Ford '1111

Molan County .

croa-a~xa.mina

the flitnees .

EXJU!IMED BY UR. FORD:
Q

,

do you know o.nythinr:, u.oout t!ho rapreaentea those pa.r-

tioo, waan•t
A

the~e

oevorul attarnoyo?

l~ot except Wht'lt you told n10 Jud~-e 11 you told ms you d:t.d. .

Q Did.n ' t I tall you I ropreaented ono or two of those pa.rtioo

Who were in ja.il?
A I didn •t undctrota.nd you• you rteL"o diooueoing u1 t.ll 11'.:l thG

liabili ·ty for thoso O.t'teoto a.nd told

you rep~eented them.,

You m~y have oa.14 ."ono., JUdeo~ but

tt.o ! undorotoocl you·.

uncl.orotoOd. that you

n10

t

re~renentod the~.

Q Woll, nov Jud.go, Wt\o 8'ny men ever ind1otoc1 frot1 N~lv..n Oounty .

f.or dio~alty of

a.nv

,.

l:t.nd?

A Mo, air .
Q

~ore

\7c.o not t wan tlio ~?

Jl !:fo, Dl :t •
0,

lfow, 1an•t ~t

flt

fact thv..t .either ot thooe pa.rt1os \"/ho wore
l

111 prtDon noro cvor 1ndtoted for o.ny offence,- don ' t YO\\ *'1
~\

tlle.t 1o
t

fa.ot?

A Grow!ne out 0£ their
Q Yoe?

a~oot?

'

A No. X don tt think it wao .
Q nan there owr nny Wm>ra.nt ~ r 1oouo<1 for e}ny of tho?>s-t1es

rtho wore plt,,oed in ja11?

A I oould not tell you tha,t, I llavent t any 1ntormo.t1on on the

outljdot, except what you told me •

221
Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 Q About tllic ·Oherge of

t.l,

f'ln xi in j

19~8,

theee two prieionere

~ho

e~o

oon-

hu:'1e you oircx: h v.rd Jtl.dgo J . H. Boa.:U. ooy

anything a.bout the11e p•onei:r. being miat:rec:ted ou·li 'ijhoro?
TiiE CHAIFtttAN :
'fHF. WITNESS:

Jua't a minute , -

na

~vi<J.ently

;poi.v whioo l an.Olfto~d,

tha

ia ire:f'o:crine t9
&ta.t~mont

"not®~:

wfe:rrc<.l.

wttor

to oono one tn

p:r.ist>n.
'lHE OH.1UF.MAN:

l>id you ever l1eo.r JUdge Ben.ll ao.y a:i1ything a.bout

anybody With respeot~- oa.y anything a.bout being miotrou.tod?

A I l1ave not •
un. FORD:

Yvu a.m •t know anything c.botJ.t how tiley lfJ?'O tt"Gatod?

A Only thoo& t lw.d connection vlith in iec'Uing warro,nto ip tho

inveotisation
~:1th

~nd

the Oouno1l

getting tho

o~

ot~tomen~u~ eto .~

in conneot1on

D £enna .

Q Yt>u know notJ\i.1fS e..bcn:1.t bow they t:too.ted. ther.1 wh~n th~.. YM1·e
:a.n

tlc.1.l. <>:t> t'.nyth1ng o±' tho.t a()X'ti
Ford~

A -101l.,. we didn•t iut. them !n ja.111 Mr .
··~

pl.nn

Wo adoptodtho

f' btingi~ them bOfo~ ua a.nd lecturing tl1om c "'Od o.nd

B1Vi¥lg them a ohtmoe to beoome
r,f 'hotng

eooa,

loyal 01 tiaens instead .

r~:-:a l'lexe uoed f.o~

pu.t in jtU.l and tho

tho.t, lb.: ge ...

lY Q Xon do not know ho\l they wero troo.tod. Jthen they

\VOre

1u t 1n

jail?
A

Yt=rn, I dt> 'Deco.uno they told tha . oouno:l.1 how they \1(J:to t:r.oo.to<i

o.nd. ri~do t11e atu.taments, eto . " o.lld thtU1ked tho council, n.nct .
'·

tbG ..ange~ fo't" the rro.:y thof ~roro treated.
.
,. .
.
Q Au o. matt$r of foot ~ the~ \'lae neV'() r
d.1JJ'l.oyo,1.t3t •""'

ooy

\

j

rl(\O

not

•

aw ind1.otm~ t a.ga.i not tinybody fl'"Otn Nolo.n County, I believe you
ta;tod tliD.·:;

lx:fn~

tha.t :\rJ n. :ftt.ot 1

~e

it?

A No, sir; mi~ policy tha.t ~e u..do~tod When wo :f'irot o~gan.3.zed
the~o

~!

•

rm.o not · to not ht\ut11y bu to e;tvo every tncm a: d.1e.nce .

We figured th~t pc~hap~ a

t.w..tl rl'ould

.

ehoot hi.o !'l'!O'll'th off end

uttor clloloyn.lW Without a z.teq.1 1ntent1on, end. no ~a adopted

Texas State Library and Archives Commission
'j'
(

 \

tha.t meth6d

p\U'ouad it.

~

Don ' t you laioo one of the men o.rreoted bad n. son in tho a.rrfV

Q,

ho o.o a.fter.1a.:tde

ounded in Fra,noo?

A

Q.
\
A \ 1 h~. .va '' u.'-·u.
\

~tJn r t.

Q.

y ~ k.u.url

A I l

;ve

Q J1n

i1~ 1a.e

i

•

i:10 •

lo'-"

&l~\;; ho}l ~~tJ \'f :;H.U'l 1. ~ i.n ·i;h-c <J.l.'atf?

llO •

.upi·i£Jont1d ~'id '.no oliu.1·go :~ , i ~.-:,c t),(;;ainot hltn 1

Uf.)

tte;1,.• of fe.ct?

A I d<~•t *t kno •

Q

ou don 1 t kno. how

r::~ny

2>riconera : ro in ;tho,t a.u·ii 1

A Im, oi:r. .

Q Ao :i:tu: ~a Mo~n Co'l.>.nty ie ch~i c ~~n id f(~l .•o net ~. .(;"., h
mn

lOl.'e

.1

i?l;i.llf

p;rouecutou. in thf.f.t loJi;•l

}.. I <ion ' t ii.110\'.I •

Q As

(l,

mt~l?l'be:: ol' -~ha C<JUtl<Si :i.

A Ii '· ; rul.(l come to <Uhe

.r·onld you lln.vc 1ilt<J11n j. t '?

nom1o:i.J.,

ur h

-»o.m, l. ~~k 1:'/J.\

invoe... ·

ti@;l ;ion,. yes .

ou kept pretty violl un Wi'.vh uoll th:i.nga'l

Q

Ye-a .

I A

Q Ha.ven ,t ycu heard a. good ~ a.l of cor.ri->l..'\int frr.n.li tl c lo Dt

oi lii~ n& of that count:c-y ao to th6 ~&nga_·a conduot a"~-t the"?"~?
Q Hori io tht?.:t;'?

A n~vert •t l 7 0U hee.ra a. good deal of oan1pUt~i1r~ fxom ·the bJ 01 oitl..
\

A

•01-iB o'1:

Mo) !

that oQ\mt;q a.rj to tho

i-t-~n~I'$1

oqnduot cr1J.t

have not, 'b\.tt 1t hau oome :f:com the wo:..ot

ooc1ctv

Tl'..cz.s?

ol.o~.nent o:t ouv

~ut ~hel"O .

Q You bu.ve not hc.d My convorDa.tion 1'1.tth tU'lY ot' tl101.."l l

J.t 'the rro*

OJ.Om3llt?

11

!lo~ I didn ' t ho.ve N>.'1 convaran.tion \11th thoms you oould hear therza

VO\tling on the stioecrt .

2 !)(
• v
Q Did you kn01'7 anything a.bou·l; a.ny 6fld?lbl1ng
Texas State Library and Archives Commission

eoing on out there?

 A

Ro~ ~i~;

Q !la.va not

r don •t gsable rnyaalt .
bean Mytbing abo :t :1 t?

A Yan, I ha..vc hsB-n.l of it bu1; it 1n

don• t hiew aeyth:ln' p~v.rrH."l1!J., :iy i)\ rag~1.1:d to it?

Q

y,

A

Mo,

Q.

ltho ood

tt

r.11·~ .

nubr,oon.aed; do yat.i lauwt

:rot1

telar;£~r.1 £rorn J\t1.jn

A 116 1 I got a
hG.d. been

a.nd. I
Q

Ul"e~r 1',t.o.:i:.•gay -.

~nm.t

BU!?l!?lon~d

11ad.G

a:nt '1en r;;.l B'.a.~'~ tt~o.t !

to appe~r h~~ tbia mo~r ng a~ nin

o ' clock,

it .

iu lil.1! •
! nant to ro~er to your rtofi.n .~'4t1 ~ t:.

:t'J.'t1E T1I'T'11'ES3!

the timti ! ·,"fa.a o. "\°\mliar
:ta.~r&rl'

Cl\to0ted hi t.h

b~»np: £! cne , R.~c1 t'!.!l

or

•·o

nurtng

th& CounoJ.1. of. Dofen.se I war.i re-

e:rve ~1:1 O tm ·r J'

1

·

~ tr?'. OoolH;o;n

auoh T. ~o.~ ·lhdcre of the Jt'l:'\l"t,•n} J.n <Jou.rt.

I

Utvl fo1n~ hoyo ttp baf.o'-"G mt~ f(''t- ~:he.ft, l~reeJ~ nl!' 3.rto o~·:J:>tl; one

-

.

o:f tllern \'Ul.O . !ltil:ll~r•e lX>Y e.n<l no:t tbG~ Al .1f.:er r-.r ''iO ·tJ.fe

camG b etand

u~)

f,,r his l oy nnd I

ut tb;'lt t. y on

h~~

or1n honor

nut! tumod hii,, 3.oQoc nnd. 11c hna rr.ndo good •

.

Q

J'l;iae, tor fe~ >. t nti.gh.i; -ref. cct, I \71J..l'l·t y-:-u to ~011 t,·1riJ

ttto&,- 0£ co'lu..:ose, 'boinc: an a

t:r/r.tor.ney •
for hi n
A

l'i~ht

(;ervic~

to

l

! rom.~nt ony hing·, ...

3'~1. ~(Ilg~~ &u

t. "'Y u.ouall/ pcy him

?

SU..l.~ .

Q You ho.vs known me for a. good wh:tl.dt
al

orn(?'.Y,

Have you evor kn.own

t.10•-'

vtb"t n1<lo ha.ve ! been. on?

A !f you wwit 1110 to tell yot.'.t Jolin~ I Will tell you. •.
Q l'lcll, ltt)..van •t I eonrod,-

THE CHAIHUAN:

I do not think your roputo.tion is in isouo

heix> .

MR. Im'IGHT:
TIIE ClWrn.tAD':

We vtaivo tho objeot1on~ gontlemen of tllc oommittoe If you 11iah to t\'Jatify

· a.tar, you oan

2:J
t1
thoro
1s nothi11e;
hoxo &ga1not
rou.
Texas
State
Library
and Archives
Commission

do BO" but

 l.70 .

HR . nr!Gtrrt

?he Conl1'!littee un1erstn.nds that

t •• I I GHT !

to hltiJ

Q

~:5. ~:!.<>YGlt~(

i'O!:

la~ ... 1r~ tey

I<~r:r

"'C.O

~.o •

Q

Ti 01

.•· _-:

it u" intc ei'i'oct.?

.... no»•.•• :.l··-"
- -i.

n
_·~_ 1....,._,i_;o..

~:

in

•..

t ""'·"'"'"'
"""·"'

1)1 ... """"1' ....
·•f .........
~........

"

4

l•l!-."'

" ......... ..,

"'"'~ota
...............

' ,rdu > tho 1 / i;aa :not j.n of'fc.<,·t. r:1u.1n thoao

.otile:r~

air, n
~1,w .

o la\• ·
••t?A~.t

er \,hiuh they om.Uc

t.:o.e:t'E· ~1ao

l1"t..h tl '-#,, ::.;.o 1.i~11~00J.

A Yoo, I bcllev\.1. it

ti.i 7

lJLoar.d?

:ceoo:tlcot.i.on.

A Ye • tli ·rJ

Q,

dv you. :t."cm0r.1oer th!.. .v.t~ 1hon the

le

}.

Q

beer.. anybody

ai:r: .

f;"'ln'.'I
.·~~rri.n:.. n.A:J ·,r
•_
~-1.&J ... -

l.!.R .

tliclo/al ty ;

4-.c L we.a

\7L,n u.'.

i

:~o.

Ui.· . li'O?:<l n.cJrcd ycu if thai·e

it 1,..,ic j.a

Y(.i ~

1.

tiaiye all

It in an o.rbitr:.w ruliug on. the r>a.:tt of the oomm1tt CQ .

objcotionA .
in liotvd

i1e

t.\.ftor lih ..t i;oo 1

cap~.r.:nmE"v

~~n ' t

:.aw ,

it ?

~rl).a .

Lotn t;""1bseid a.t ·tu:J.•
,ppolli ticn in · the

tl,o ).i\.Je1:n.J.

o ;t.•X<>Goout~C.?

l.h "" .

3~,ui

Do yt1'l h1ov1 t.n athc4'

03~

not tl.o:ra wa.s

.c ....... in U1e Houao to t.l,e Hobby l<>yalty

a.~1.1?

A Of 'tllY 0•1n knowledge?

UR . CAI

a~s ;

!fn&t

~o

it·:c . ovc.nt and itmna.ter al c..n{! absolutely

'\.U!Ca.J.j.ed :f ~a: .

MR . ICNIGffi1 :
2~~

l

1t io niu.teriul .
Ho~.

J.ong 110.ve ym1 livod in Swect-rrn.te:-1 Judgo'i

Texas State Library and Archives Commission
dR . TIDl7ELL :

 Db ~nu lfuow N. T. 1fyaon of Ht~llno~ TC~ms?
A lfo, oi:t .
Q

It seer.in that he io "t't.ted ho~ to be tho fa.tltt)r. of tho

boy?

A I clon•t J~no\4 tllone raon. a.t a. l~ I don ' t th!nk they u.:-.-e cit1-

20Texas
2,
ono of
ilOl(J..n. and
Councy
o:t- of thtLt
immodio.ta
State
Library
Archives
Commission

v1c1ru. ty .

 (
Q State to the committee whether or not there was art'/ oomplaint
made there with referenoe to the abose of this young HuJ.line
in the SWeetwa.ter ja.11.- or Tyson, I mean?

A I never heard of a:n.y abuse of any citizens at all in the
SWeetwa.ter

ja.11~

and no question raised of

that ~

eave and ex-

· 4ept With reepect to a man by the name of Si Bostick until I ea.w
a letter from Mr . John J. Ford. addressed to S. B. Myers in w hioh

it referred to something Judge Beall had ea.id about some ol1ente
of }lie.

That 1e the only time I heard anything a.bout 1t . 1 •xs

Judge Bea.11 here?

.A No.

Q Ie

s.

B. Myers here?
sirj s. D. Myere , he is here.

A

~ee.

Q

Tell ue whether or not you ever heard or saw a ranger out
there intox1oated or Whether you ever knew of his frequenting
a

~bling

house or engaging in any other aota tha.t would be

considered as violating the laws of the state of Texas?
A I have never seen a. ranger in Nolan County take a

d~ink

of

Whiskey or one I thought was under the influence of whiskey .
or had taken a drink of Whiskey, not did I ever hear of a.

ranger charged with gambling or being oonneoted with gambling
until I arrived in Austin th1s morning, and then I heard that
charges had been made that one of the ranger force out there
had engaged in gambling at a pri va.te house.

That ie a.11 I

kno\T about that gambling proposi t1on and a11 I ever heard
aboutit.
Q I want to know whether or not the range rs went out and a.oted

in a.n appropriate way , or rather, an overbea.rtng W&ly, so ao

to

intimidate the citizens> or whether they went out in a quiet
orderly way like the sheriff and his deputies go abqut?

A When we eent out for disloyal parties I isoued a oomm1ttment
or order of arrest ae Chairman of the Oounoil of Defense for
that party .

I never did that lllltil statements had been made

Texas StatetoLibrary
and Archives
Commission
ue in Writing
and signed
by witnesses charging disloyal a.eta

 o~ aoto viola.ting

·the eepiona.Ga aoto , I inotruotod tho

r'J.nQ'O:t inV~!nbly

tho firot timo to BOt

UO VCU"10UO

itnOOOOOt

given in o.ddi tlon to thtB c we had, t\nd to get tho etatomonta
of thoao nitnoeoeo,. a.nd if thooe

i tneooon eta.tad thon tho

foot, I told tbetl they uould,. thon l told th0ti1 to pitt 1t 1n
Wrt tlng o.ild. then go C\nd oeo th~ party o.nd

make o. Written otatcment ~they would .

thBt party then oo.r.toborated what

w~o

t tho pa.rty to

I.f they did• nnd

dono 1 to bring bim 1n

tbera; if they did not. juat br1ncr hie ote.te11ont . Thoro wa.o
but ona insta.noo in ~ioh a

ra.naor bJ.'OUglit tho man to my

off1oo .
Q

\'lbo.t

ra.ngor nae that?

A U ~ . Bill •
Q \7ho \'la.a the party ho brought in?

A p,irdon l!IO, llr. UYero, do you reoolleot .t ho man that ma.do

tho eto.tomont to tho rllngo~ o.nd then oorreoted it in

0\1*

office,- nae brought trom Oh~J.cn, tho.t the ota.tomont wo.o
rw.t.t.e v.t tho ~ burial of 'Y CLU1£t Da~herty t
Q

Uha.t wao dono '11th the.t~or \7hom you iooued a 110.rront of.

a.rroot?
A Tha.t pa.rty mMo a ota.tor.10nt to the ranger whioh

a. violntlon ~f the

Wt!4J

o.booluloly

cpionogo a.c o.nd. tho ro.nger roquooted l11m

to oomo to totln :tith him .

..rho oauno1l o.oeomblcd .

We told

this party tiba.t we hM, thin otatcmont, and o,al{ed him i:f' he

it .

mMO

ne

aa1Q. ho did, and wo aokod him if' he s1gnc<1 1t

and he cw.id he d1di \Te o.eked him to be m1om t\.."ld hf) \"lac owom 1
a~d

I hrui.dod h1m tho ottl.temont thon tbat ·wea

he ha.d a1gned .
th~t gravel"

~ritten

out that

I so.1d. ttD;t.d you mtl.ke tho.t ta.lk a.t tha.t burio.l,

He o:J.1d 11lfo, olr. u

I eaid "How ca.mo you. then

to mu.ko th1o otn.totl9nt?" He onid ••I don' t know sir. " I euid
"You d1d not make th1o ota,toment a.t tbo.t gro.vo?• Ho oaid "No~
01~ . "

Mr. Billo wa.o precont; llr. Blllo oaid ha wao oorroborat-

od in that by ovory

111 tnooo

tho.t wa.o thero, and he did not mnko

234
tha.t
otetoment,
but he ma.Cl.o
it to mo, a.nd \1hon
Texas State
Library
and Archives
Commission

! urote it d0V1n

 ieo .

SEHA'l'OR WILLIFORD: WoUld they expla.in the oond1t1ono 1hen they
asked thooo quaetione?

Texas State
Library
A Oh,
yea# and
they Archives
did, thoy Commission
hnd their guno on -

You know the Rangero

 ~eo.r

tllo1r B'U.t\&, •ear their bolto \Vith their guns on ancl everybocy
I can oay I ncwe:r: ec.w n. rnoro gentlorna,,'Vll.'J of:tioer

knowo a. Ranger .

in 1!f!J lito than Ur• Dillo ·and Mr . MoKenzio!l ha.vo eho\rA thGmoelveo
to bo out 1n H'ollln County .

EXAlUMED

MR. llOitltL:tN:

I:rl

Q '!'hoy didn' t preoont tllo1r oroden.t1a.ltt? Thay uould junt wa.lk
up to a. mo.n a.nd o.ok h:lm who ho wao &nd whoro he
A

WOJ>

going?

Yest o1r .

Q About ' the only oredcnt1a.J.o they ca-vo thom nero

o. gun o.nd

o. oixnhootar?
A No, they didn •t do it tha.t ua.y . Tllo o1Xohootor wao on thorn a.nd
th~ no.:tkod up to theu1 and oo,1d 11\7b1oh

tho way I

\70\lld

hnvo o.pproaahed a ma;

wa.y aro you soing?u Tho.t 1e

if I lmd mmted to find out

anything.
Q If c, man \1t\lk&d up to you ond O·'lid, "Dho a.re yott a.nd whore
you fa"Oing?" ...-

Q.l'e

A .S~anltaat:x:tJmm It l hM thought 1t r1aon ' t any. of. l11G buoinooa
I \70Uld htl.vo oaid nmia.t io 1 t to you?"
ha.'10

but if I l~ thought I \7ould

on.id "It is a :Rangern and nould have anor1ered hio quoation .

And never d1d

l: hou.rd anybody aott the quection tha.t no..y .

Q 'l'hoy didn rt aondUat 1 t o.o you

\10U1d.

oond'uot 1t?

A Yea. air_ eJtactly . If I had thought tho e;ontlcmt:i;Jl tte.o a. olnoker
or a. doserte,_. I · culd hcwo \'1tr.lked up to him c.nd oo.1d, "Uhioh nay

aro you going? Ha.vo you got your 1dont3.ftcat:ton oa.rd.?1t
Q Sttppooe he would. have o.novrerod o.o you oa1d you would o.nower?

A I \1ol11d ho.ve told him

would have hnd to

to.k~

Q Did you e "lter lmow

\1110

I t1a.c o.nd unleos he ha.d a. ri~bt I

ohE\.rgo of. him.

a. rta.nsor out thoro named Na.lle?

A If I over Jmew ttc..110 I only oa.r1 him but '7.idn' t knolY hio no.me.
Q Bl<»tn~?

A I kn(4i7 John Bloxsurn; ho hno only been a. Rrmeer a short whilo .

State Library and Archives Commission
2Texas
:_~ Ct>
He livod out in liolan County on tho divide.

 EXA:tilJED BY UR. KBIOHT:

Q

What was Mr. Bloxsum'a reputation. how about him?

A

I didn't know him aa a Ranger at all. If he evor

appeared around Sweetwater
ae a
.

Ran~er

I nevor saw him •

SEHATOR PAGE: Yott do not know hla r~rrntatton as a Ranr er?

A No; he was taken to .Kaatland c·ounty after he wse -put
on the force.
SENATOR

~ !TTE:

If there was soma oompleint on the part

or some of the oitizona what seemed to be the basis

o~

their

oomnle1nt. ae to the Hangers?
A

:u-.

The first complaint rataer arose from the

Darbee wss

law. the

~ppointed

~1otr1ot

~act

that

personal bodyguard for his fa t her-1n-

Judge; ae

r underetooa it. because his life

had bocn t hreatened by the F. Tie P. A. And thon 1-!r. Jim Cunning-

ham, oarr.1ed two Rangers with htm traveling through the country
ell the time. and it

~as

commonly reported it was a body guard

furnished by Governor Hobby because his lite had been threa ten-

ed by the F. L. P. A.
Q

He was district attorney?

A

No. he was a defender

o~

or1m1nals entirely. Re hardly

ever represented tho State but he woe a personal friend

o~

!.! r. ForBUson' e and for a while he wae furnished a body guard

of two Raneers.

;.m.

LACZBY:

A

That started complaint.

im. KlUGHT:

That brought on com-plaint?

Who a'J)pointed the young man to be botiy guard

to hts i"athor-in-law, the distrtot ju<tgo?
A

Govornor Ferguson.

Q

That brought on tho oomnlaints?

A

That is when the

com~la1nts ~1rst

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

started.

 JUDGE THOS. W• HOOK,

having been first duly sworn by the committee
testif1e4 as follows on direct examination by
Am. J. T. CJ~NALES:

MR. PAGE, Vioe-Chairman:

I have talked to some of the

oomm1 ttee and they ·want this examination as 11m1 ted as posai;'ble.
MR. TIDWELL:

Will you indicate what special charges--- ?

MR. CANALES:

No,- not on that.

to

wanted

It is because Judge Hook

testify ~ere. I wrote him to send me the data and he

did not send it and came here.

MR. PAGE:

You mean there is no oharge here now?

·MR. CANALES:

Except the general charge of people being

taken out of jail and killed.
(Objection interposed by the Adjutant General's Department.)
MR. PAGE: ·We could not pass on that until the committee
asks him some

questions.

THE CHAIRMAN:
Q

Q What is your name?

A. Thoe.

w.

Hook.

Where do you live?

Kingsville, Texas, ie my home.
Camp Travis.
A

I am living now at

EXAMINED BY MR. CANALES:
Q

Judge Hook, your pro~easion before you entered the

A

A lawyer.

Q

Vlhere were you i:Cationed?

A

At Kingsville, and also practiced at Falfurias and

army?

,
~

surrounding county seats. Brownsville and Corpus Christi • . '
You are acquainted with the Ranger Force an~ the Ranger
aotivites along those counties?
Q

A

Somewhat, yes, air.

Q

Now do you know

ct.

ad

1Dllbrx 1noident that loc.eurred in

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 239

Kingsville about two Mexicans by the name of Ponae and one by
the name of 'Morin that were t!lken out of jail and they were
never heard of?

GENERAL HARLEY:

I object to thst on the ground there is

no apeoifio charge covering that particular transaotion. Under
the rules of the committee he m*st file--- .

UR. CANALES:

I wrote to Judge Hook---

THE CHAIR!!AN:

Oh, it would be impossible for this oommtttee

to hear ·evidence where there is no definite charge before the
committee. You were given until today to file your charges. If
you wish to use this witness about some matters of that kind
you must understand that we cannot go into it until the oharge

·.

is filed.

MR. CANALES:

Wasn't it the ruling of the Chair this morn-

ing that you would hear any witnes s ss to any corruption of the
Rangers~

whether oharged or not, that was one of the matters to be

investigated. Notice was given 1n the papers that any witness
who knew anything about specific charges in regard to . the conduct
of the Ranr ors that they would appear before this committee and
.:..

be heard •
THE CHAIRUA.U:

Yes, if any one has any oharge but there

being no epecifio oharge filed I don't' see how we can go into

it.
SENATOR WITTE:

I move we go ahead and heer this

man's~

I

testimony with the understanding that Mr. Canales will this
afternoon charge a specific fact, file a charge oovering
oase. so as not to delay this man.
THE CHAIRMAN:

·

tH~

·\ .

Is there a second to the motion of !enato~

Witte?
GENERAL

HARLEY:

I was going to state this:

I think it

would be somewhat a differentiation from the rules to permit J!r.
/;39

Canales to file the charge but the Judge himseld could file the

Texas
2J9 State Library and Archives Commission

'\
·\

 charge this evening, not having had an opportunity, but I
think ~Ir. Canales{ time for filing charges has passed.
THE CHAIRTuIAN:

If there is no objection on the part of

the committee we will hear this witness and i .f he wants to file
a charge he can do so.

All right, proceed, .Mr. Canales.

(~XAMIUATION RESUMED BY MR. CANALES:

Q

You heard my question, Judge?

A

Yes.

Q

Please answer that question.

A

I knew something of that incident, yes, sir.

Q

State that to the committee, all that you know about

it.

MR. KNIGHT:
knowledge, is it,
A

Your knowledge is personal?

It is personal

~udge?

You will see as I answet what kind of knowledge it is.

I will testify all I know.

THE CHAIRMAN:

We want to 'know what kind of knowledge. We

don't want hearsay. We want the fact that you know.
A

I will state my own activities only in connection with

the matter.
THE CHAIRMAN:

MR. KNIGHT:
A

Al1 right, proceed.
That is all right.

I waw called upon by Morido, who was a pastor of a

little chap~el we had built in the Mexican part of town in behalf-he spoke in behalf of Ganzales, the editor of our paper at Kinssville, who had been apprehended and put in jail.

MR. KNIGHT: Were you present at the apprehension?
A

No, sir.

MR. KNIGHT:

The point I asked you, if you were going to

testify from hearsay.
THE CHATIU.1.AN:

It is a fact that he was apprehended and put

jail?
Texas in
State
Library and Archives Commission

 A

Yee, e1r.

tm. KNIGHT: That is ell right,
SENATOR W!TTE: tibat wee the man's name?
A

hi a name.

! beli~ve 1t wae muruel Gonsales. I think that was

·I made some 1nq·uiry anti appeal"ed before a group
'

0

~,

o'f men Who were el tt1ng tn one 01' the roo..s of the Oasa R1oard~:~~L·~~ 1 r) ..
~
i -.
that 1s one ot ~ur hotels 1n Kingsville.
II tolB
them,- I spoke ln .:

behal~

of Gonzalea. and rr1ends I knew and could depend on

considered him en excellent men and wished to lqJow ir there was
anythins I could do for him.

I wee 1nformod

by

a man after a

lit t le bit that ho repreeentod the Department of Justice, Federal
Department of Justioe, and that he was conduating an tnquir1, an
1nveetigat1on and I said, "'hat ia entirely in order, to investigate Gonzales as far as you wish. I hope though after you have

completed your investigation tt you find that he le all right
you will turn him loose."

Not long after that the oommon

report and the public ~reee published the fact that two othe~
mon had been taken from t ho jail at Kingsville and hed been
gotten away with.
MR . KNIGHT:

Judge, one moment. Will you k1ndl7 tell

tho oomm1tteo what year 7our testimony relates to?
A

Yes:

1~

was during the month of Hay. 1916.

MR . XB!GRT: That was under the Old regime and prior to ~he
Captain's appointment?
I

A

f

There were then this eame Morido, anO the presidant Of

ot the ~pworth League of that little chapel ana Castanado who wee "
on& of the best reputed merchants 1n the llex1oan part of town,
end Gonsales came to me and told me that the matter of getting
away with llextoans was, appoarea to them to endanger their own
lives. that they tbought~--

HP.. KNIGHT: I don't know, gentlemon---THE CH!mYAN: Just a momont.
241.
Texas

YR. itUIGH~:
Is it hearsay?
State Library
and Archives
Commission

241

 Questioned by the Chairman:
Q

Did they tell you an7th1ng about the Rangers?

A

No, sir, they didn't mention the Rangers.

Q

Didn't mention the Rangers'f

A

No. sir.

THE CHAIRMAN: Well, I don't think thta investigation is pertinent at all.
MR. CANALES:

ZrlrX¥ Will

you permit me to make this state-

ment?
THE CHAIRMAN:

Yes.

You know a great deal of that kind

of testimony was just given by the previous witness.
UR. CANALES:

Xes, I know and I---

THE CHAIRMAN:

Why didn't you objeot to it?

MR. CANALES:
hide.

I didn't objeot because I have nothing to

I believe 11 you will let the gentleman make the statement

you will find it oonneoted with the Rangers.
THE CHAIR!UN: All right. He says it is not. though.
and make your statement.
A

Go ahead

There is no dlfinite oomplaint against the Rangers. The

~ 'l

asked me if it would not be proper for them to petition some
authorities for the protection of their li\' es. r thought 1t was a good
opportunity for the good element among the Mexloans to get in
oloeer tough with the government and the government in closer
touoh with them and recozmnended the action.

I stated to them

if you will get up your data I will prepare the petition and they
brought to me the data and I addressed a petition to, one to the
chief exeouti~e officer of the nation, President Woodrow Wilson,
and the other to the eh1ef exeoutive officer of the state.
THE CHAIRMAN:

That was Governor Fe rguson?

A
Q

That was Governor Ferguaon.
Yes.

A

Thie is a oopy ot the petition which I prepared for

them from the data they furnished and ~hioh they signed and it

242Texas

24~

State Library and Archives Commission

 and 1t was fo.rwarded to the president.
after that I .received

replies

~rom

Not long. or sometime

both the Governor and the

President 1n answer to that petition.
THE CHAIRJ.Ul.11:

A

The

TH~

CH.AIRMAN:

We don 't oare anything about those.

reply from the pres1dent--We don't oare about those replies.

State

anything you lllay have to state that effects the Ranger Force of
Texas or that affects this inquiry.

A.

In that connection might I state that the matter com-

plained of had been investigated thoroughly by the President

or under the Department of Juetioe,
in his letter as to

how~ these

and he made a :fU11 report

.men were disposed of.

Q

Who did he say disposed of them?

A

He attributed it to the State officers.

Q'

Rangers?

A

He didn't say Rangers. no.

Q

Who did he attribute 1t to?

A

The only connection the Ra?Jgers had with it was one

that they themselves took up and this is the 1no1dent which I will
relate wh1oh will show--THE OHAIRUAN:
l

All right. Go ahead. We will·hear you.

I was in Falfur1as sometime after that, attending a term

of oourt and two men walked 1nto the court room whom I did not
know but whom I afterwards found out were Capt •.Saunders and another
Ranger •

..

/J, s:ENATOR nTTE:
i

/;.y/ A)

I do not •

Do you know the other man' a name?

rhe man whom I afterwards learned was Capt.

Jau~~'~s walked over to the table where I was standing and asked

m p1~ 1m1

'.

name was Hook. I said "Yes, sir."

He said "When

~ou

are

/
a~~esi:ure
I would like to see you." He immediately walked out
th~ aisle followed by this other man, into the lobby or hall and
ll

~

/t

l;aid m:y book over some papers that I was arranging and followed

1

hil~. out!

at onoe. Arriving at the

hall I walked over to the side

of\~he
the man---" he
l ..../room where he was and said to me, "Are ,,ou
J

Texas State(·l Library and Archives Commission
I

~

 didn't use that term. Do you wish me to use the therm he used?
Q

You may if you wish.

A

I am rather sorry to use it.

Q

Go ahead.

A

"Are you the son of a bitoh that wrote that petition at
I said "r took data that was fu.rn1shed me by a Mex-

Kingsville?"

ican and put it in the form of a formal petition. "

He said,

"Don't you know that all tha t stuff was a damned lie?"

And I

said No, I donit, and more than that I believe it was all true."
He then drew his pistol, keeping the handle of it 1n his hand, and
came down at me With h1s right hand.

I warded the pistol off

with my left and he recovered himself and oame down again and
again I caught his pistol and warded it off. He oame down again
and that time the man Who had oome out of the court room with
him and who was standing at my left, grabbed my la:ft hand with
whioh I v.·as warding off the pistol. However, I managed to :free

it and to ward off the pieto~. and the oaptain. he came down the
fourth time with his pistol. r said then. "You are a pretty offioer

By then or about

to attaok an unarmed citizen withs pistol."

that time I made the statement, '~lhat is the matter with you-- are
you drunk?"

He said "Do I act aa though I were drunk?"

"You smell as though you were,"

I said

and the deputy sheriff had come

upstairs and the court reporter had oome out of the adjo!ning

room and the Capta in then said, "I beg your pardon, I didn't know
you were unarmed,"

and he said, "I apologf>ze."

apology goes all the way I will aooept 1 t."

I says. "If your

lie said, "It does,"

but , then he said something that I don't just remember about, the
effect of which I gathered was that he was only apologizing for
only having attacked me because ! was unarmed, for that p~rt of it.
l

Tqe deputy sheriff came over to me and says, "Hook. he b/as done all
he oan, he has apologized, let him go," and then pushed me into
~he court room.

The captain and the other Ranger left ; the place.

t went into the court room with the deputy and

244

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

l/S$W ~

friend of

 mine there.

I said to him, "If you

will tell Captain Saunders,

please, if he will take off that gun of his I will meet him any
time, anywhere.

He said, "I am too good a friend of both yours

end Capt. Saunaers to carry any message between you."

I said

"I will oa.rry it myself then," and I went out o:f the court room
to the hotel in town,- the oaptain and his deputy had checked
out of the hotel, already,- I went down to the mean part of town
and I found that they bad left town in an automobile.
Q

This was Saunders?

A

Captain Saunders.

Q

Who was the other man with him?

A

I don't know his name•

Q

Haven't you heard his name since by hearsay or other-

A

Ho, sir.

Q

Who was the deputy sheriff that came out?

A

Porter.

Q

Do you know his first name?

A

His initials, L. N. Porter.

wise?

I

Q

Where does he live now?

A

l!'alfur1as.

•

.. ~""'

'-.

'

Uow, anybody else that saw that, that was present at thi'"'
incident that you know of and knows about it?
Q

•1

A

\

CSl?le out\ 'b~ut

The stenographer---the court stenographer

)~'

that time.
Q

Do you know what his name was?

A

What 's his name, Mr. Canales?

MR. CANALES:

l

·.\/ '
,'.,

/

J. B. Dodson. He is now at Rio Grande
I

,('\_

\1du ·"\' .,'-,

City~ \

'

\

~

THE CHAIRMAN: Proceed, Captain.

.

·~ \

That is all I have to say,- except that a widow of one~\\
~
of those men ·who was taken from that Kingsville jail and killed !\.\
A

asked me if' I oould recover the body or rather Castanado, the

storekeeper.
me and asked
me if' I oould recover
Texas State
Library came
and to
Archives
Commission
== -

the body

..,1

J

'n

 of her husband for her, and I instituted some search through
the undertaker's at Brownsville especially to see if I could not
recover the body and give it

a burial but they were never able to

reoover the body.
THE CH.AIP.MAN:

if the committee if

In

that connection I would 11"re for you,
to read the petition that you prepared

willing ~

that Capt. Saunders was abusing you

~bout?

{Witness reads the petition inquired about, whioh is

A

as follows: )

To Hon. Woodrow Wilson,
President of the United States of America.
Washington, D.

c.

We, t he undersigned, for the
most part citizens of the United States and of
the State of Texas, of the Mezican race, but some
' citizens of Mexico, and all residents of

King~vl~le,

Texas, lovers of peace and of good order, loyal
~aw

~nd

abiding people, most respectfully petition. you,

our President, ln this a matter of direct and vital
'

oonoern to us, to wit:

We deeply deplore the faot that
among Mexicans there are any who would perpetrate , the
'
I , ..

.

terrible wrongs wrought by bandits in the territory

I

·

.· . south of here. or who would . conspire against thi a~ ., \

' our government. But we would oall attention to· the
I

.

I

\..

' fact' that 1 t . is ae unjust and as un:-American to kill k

\

·. s.n innocent man of the Mexican race because of the
, i

..

·

I

crime of 8, :;~~iin
~bandit' as it would be 'to kill
~~I r
'

an

\

I

\

.

~

l

l

· Atneriaan citizen of any other re.ae. although i nnocent, \

for the crime of another.
11·

A·

,

And in this connectipn let

me point out that it is no crime to belong to the Mex-

I

ioan race, but we must believe that many Mexicans in

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

I

I \

\

\'

 this State, who have been killed without a trial
lately, have been guilty of no other orime

th~n

being Mexicans.
About the middle of last month,
several Mexicana were arrested end lodged in jail in this

•

cit~.

The arrests were mado without warrants, although

we are informed. those arrested were not taken while
perpetrating a crime, nor while fleeing after having
perpetrated a crime. But of this alone we would not
complain.
Of those arrested, all but two were
turned loose by the officers representing here the Federal
Department of Justice, who had oaused their arrest. And
for his courtesy in expediting the ·examination of those
arrested, and for h1s

~romptly

releasing

t ~ose

relasod,

we commend him and his department.
The two who were not released, have
disappeared, and it is published in the public press,
that they were, by the Federal officer referred to,
turned over to the local county

of~ioers

and again lodged

in our jail here, Later they were ordered by some
(
I

h

,f
I

I

I

I

officer, conveyed from here to

~rownaville,

an<l the publio

press informs us. were killed in transit. The place
where and by whom killed, is not learned.
they were prisoners of, and in

oh~rge

But we presume

of, and under the

protection of the Department of Justice of the United
States
they

Govern.~ent.

~ere

And before being tried, and while

still presumed innocent under our law. they

were killed . And their widows, after making diligent
inquiry, are siven no information as to where the bodies
may be found.
247
Texas State Library and Archives Commission
\

 From this 1nn1dent, . e.nd from all
that we have s a id

gener~lly

1nd1sc~iminate

regarding the

killing of Mexicans in this. State lately, without a
trial, many of whom we believe were wholly innocent,
and all oi whom are presumed so· until proved guilty,
' you see that we have reason to believe that our liberty
/,

I

I

I•

and even our very lives are menaced. One or more of us
may have incurred the displeasure of some one, and it
seems only necessary for that some one t o whisper
our names to an officer, to have us imnrisoned and
killed wi thout an

to prove in a fair trial,

the falsity of the charges agains t us. We have reason

I

I

on~ ortunity

~o believe that we may be denied, not only the right of
trial by jury, anr. the r'.eht to be face to face wt th

with witnesses against us, and the right to counsel, and

''

\
the right to cross-question the witnesses
accusing

us, and the rlght to nroduoe evidence of our innocenoe;but we, some of us who sign this

~etition,

may be killed

without even knowing the name of him who aocuses. Our
privileged denunoiators may continue their infamous
proeeedinga,-anawerable to no one.
If there are conspirators in this
part of the country, or bandits, let the strong arm of

/,t:

1\

1
"

/

the law take hold o~ them, let the even scales of Justice

~

\

' ,. ").

l

r11

weigh them, and i:f found guilty, let them
' ··,,

'/

f/

,I

'\

b~

punished

in o on:formi ty with law. I :f law is supreme here , though '
. 1t may punish them, the same law will protect us. But
if there are those here who are above law, we who are \

certain of our lives under the law, are uncertain thereof
under those despots.
And in this oonnection let us point out
that the great majority of the people of the tiexican raoe

living
in Archives
this cityCommission
and county, are
Texas State Library
and

honest, law-abiding

 250

and peaceful citizens, who labor for good order, community betterment and culture within their modest sphere.
It is the right, guaranteed under the United

~tates

of

Ameriean c onstitution, to life, liberty and the pursuit
of happiness, that each of ua, and of these, expected.

It is those rights whioh have been ruthlessly and vio-

.

/

lently denied. And we look to you, the constituted
authority, the custodian to whom is entrusted the

I

guarding of such rights to all, to safeguard such rights

I

I

to us.

< I
I

We earnestly recommend that you issue

I

~

safe~

auoh instructions to officers

I

. ,'

in South Texas,

as your discretion advises will prevent the reourrance of

I

the unjustifiable acts herein complained

./

respectfully suggest th t an

l

o~erating

I,

\

:.

mau be brought to trial

a~

offic~r

o~.

And we

who disreGerds law

effootually as 8 bandit who

I

/

'

disregards law. In this way only will we know that law

'

is supreme, and entitled to our profound respect.

\ >.'

~

J,
~

Dated at Kingsville, Texas, this

/'

3rd day of June, A. D. 1916.
--------~----------~-----

---~----------~---------------------------------- n

SENATOR PAGE (V.Cha1rinan1:

.,

mat~riality

.,
I

Who

wa~

~t

1

I

was going to suggest that the

of that petition appeared in the evidence of the attack •

the sheriff Of your oounty at the time?

A , ~.

s.•

Scarborough.

I

Q

Is he in the court room now?

A

lres, sir.

'
I

I

THE CHAilLlf.AN:
~ith
\

1 0~

Capt. Hook, it 1a suggested that you

the committee a gpecific charge setting up in writing the date

this assault. Will you do so?

240. State
/\
Texas
Library and Archives Commission
:

~11e

 A · I will do so, not for my own individual protection- I do not ask protection for myself. If it is a matter of publto
policy I w111 be glad to do so but I do not care to ever ask any
oourt for protection in a personal encounter.
SENATOR WITTE:

Q.

Had Captain b'aunders been in that

oommun!ty before this tiMe?

/

A

Yes, sir.

MR.

TIDWE~~:

Q nad you and Captain Saunders had any

prior acquaintance, prior to this?
A

/

No, sir. I didn't know him until this encounter.

Q Hal'j you had pesaonal acqun1ntanoe with him since that

time?
I ,

A

lfo, sir.

Q

Have you seen him since that?

A

I have only seen him

at

a distance since then and he was

only passing through on a troin.
SF.NA 'l'OF l"l!TTE:

When was about the date of thi a?

A

Of.this incident?

Q

Yes.

A

Tha petition was dated the third of June. 1916, and

the encounter at Falfurias was some months subsequent to that, at
a term of court,

tim~

pos~ ibly

at the tall term of oourt.

MR.

o~NALES:

A

It might have the fall or the spr ing term. Jt was &ome

lt was Votober, 1916?

a:f'ter that.
SEUATOR WILLIFORD: Do you know whether knowledge of that

1no1dent aver reached the Adjutant General ' s offioe or not?
A

That 1no.ident of mine with Ca-pt. Saunders?

Q

That transaction at

A

I don ' t 'know. I never made any complaint of it.

~alfur1aa?

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 SENATOR WITTE:

This petition you have read, the one you

wrote, was direct ed to the President of the United

State ~

Did

you send a similar one to the Governor of Texas?
A

l: did.

Q

Did your

re~ly

to that oome from the Governor or the

Adjutant General?

A

From the Governor.

Q

Governor lergueon?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

You never had any communicstion from the Adjutant General

'

wtth reference to the matter?
A

N0 7 sir.

EXAl fINED BY MR. LACBEY:

Q

Mr. Hook, do you know of your own knowledge any con-

nection that the Rangers had with those two men that are named
by you, olaimed to have disappeared down there?

A

No, sir.

Q

You have not?

A

No. sir.

Q

Do . you know who took

A

lio, sir.

Q

You don't know who stated to teke them to Brownsville?

A

no, sir.

Q

Do

A

They disappeared.

the~

from j ail?

you know whether or not they were killed?
I know from the President's letter

that they were killed.

SENATOR WILLIFORD:
A

Have they been seen or heard of since?

No, sir.

SENATOR ;~TTE:

You say you know from the President's letter

they were killed ?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

What was the statement of the president?

Texas
2S1 State Library and Archives Commission

 He stated that he had had the matter investigated by the

A
Dijpa~tment

Q

of Justice and that his report they haa

~ade

to him.

Did he state in what way they v·ere killed or by whom

they were killed?
A

~o,

only by State officers.

Q

Did not indioate whether they had been killed by the

local authorities or by members of the Ranger force?
-::
~

A

No, sir.

.Q

You made no further investigation?

A

No. sir.

HR.

TID~..ELL:

A

I have.

Q

At your home or with you?

A

I have it here.

Q

\', ould you object to me seeing it?

A

Not in the least.

Have yolJ_ that letter from the President?

\

THE CHAIRMAN: Anything

GENERAL HARLEY:

:further· from this witness?

I would like to ask him if he called the

present administration's attention to this.

Have you ever called

the present governor's and the present Adjutant General's attention
to this matter·?
A

No, sir.

nor

~~.

~

KliIGHT:
Governor's?
A

the former administration, except the

No, air.

T"dE CH.AIRMAN:

Captain, you will be excused from the stand

at th1a time but 1t is going to be necessary for you to remain
here in the oit~ as they have sent for other parties, the oommittee
will probably desire to hear from you further when they come.
MR. HOOK:

The chairman

know~.

of course, that I am under

military authority and my leavebas a limit and I must report to
those military authorities unless my leave 1s extended.
see that
myArchives
leave is Commission
extended?
Texaschairman
State Library
and

Will the

 THE CltA!R11Al1:

Wlien did you have to report?

A Ly time is up tomorrow.

MR. LACKEY:

I

su~~est t~ at

he oan come back from

San Antonio.
T~E

If it ie nece4ary we will seeure such

Clf.A!RJAA.N:

permission as is necessary.
Wt\en did you inform Mr. Canales a.-

GBNEBAL 'fIAm..EY:

ohar~e

bout this offenee tha t you
belieYe that

A !

Jud~e

canales was in attendance on the court

at th• time or at some time
t~at

with this committee?

durin~

tl-tat term.

!

don't '!{now

1 mentioned it to him particularly but he knew probably

about it on accou-nt of

bein~

in attendance on

t~at

court some

time.

Q

He

knew i t prior to last September, prior to last yean-

yo~­

he knew this happened· in 1916 didn't he?

A ! should

jud~e

so.

MR. CANALES:

Am l'

connected or an

:inveeti~at:in~

of-

fi oer or report1 n~ ofticer of ti, e Adjutant General's Depart-

ment or any department or do you know?
A Bot that 1 know ot.

#

#

#

#

#

J . B. SCARBOROUGlf.

· Witness called by Mr. Canales

liavin~

personally been

duly sworn testified before the Committee as follows:
EXAV!N.ED BY lffi. CAllTALES:

Q. You are She r i ff of
A !

Klebe~

Co?

am.

Q. And were :in 1916-1917?
A I was.

i ' '?
Texas
State Library and Archives Commission
2
U•

 · Q, You remember the time wltene two men were plac ed in jail by

bhe name of Horine .:and Yonce.
A Yes

Q,

s:ir.

Who took these men from your jail?

A Sheriff Atkins of Sarita.
Q, Was h.e al one?

A

No

sir.

Q, Who was with. him?

A Sheriff Atkins of Williaoy Co.
Q, Who was with him?
A Wait a minute! want to tell it just like it was.

tte sent

John Cordova his deputy up to see if h.e knew th.is man Vorine
Cordova h.ad lived in llexioo and on th.e border, he said if he

was Jose lforine- he 'had tl-tree names that was raised at pali to
Eianoo that he wanted him on a oharv,e of theft of horses so Mr.
Adkins ph.oned me and

me if ! could

as~ed

that he l\ad papers for him,
not

~o

up

ri~ht

had ma.de any
ff•

then.

tl-tat he didn't nave a car and could

him and ! told h.im they nad not•

warrant for 1-iim.

1tt Adkins, llandcufted him and put
you can

bri~

Morine to him,

He asked me if the federal Authorities

c'iar~ed a~ainst

ea.id I hold a

brin~

Well ! took 1'iim to Sherchains on h.im. He said if

lUm, ! will l'iave a man h •re tomoreow tlia.t can

identity Horine as bein~ in two of those raids in the ·valley.
! told him yes but ! .woUld have to nire a oal"-my car was broke

a ford, and r

~ot

a

youn~

man named Tom

18 jn the ro om now;.he was at

~ome

on a

Allbri~ht

furlou~l-i

I tnink he

and may be

now- to take me Aown tnere and he woUld pay the car hire.

Tom lloseley was in town and Tom went •ttn me and
Brooks, to

t~e

!

believe

Well
~oe

beet of my recollection Joe Brooks.

Q, Is t1-ia t a Ra.~er?

A I believe it was, would not be positive, but tney went with. us

Texas
1 State Library and Archives Commission
~.}t.;
0

_

 a~d

and I turned him oeYer to Sheritt Adkins

if he was ever

1dent1tied·1f Ponce wa.e identified, he was then to be taken
to

Brownsvi~le

as the man that did the

ehooti~

on that wrecked

train, and 1 turned him over to Slleriff Adkins in the Ja.11.
~e

had 1'\andouft and cl\ains on him so that he would not get a.way

~

You say it was Morine? W1iy did you turn Ponoe over to him?

A

Ponce was aocu9ed as be1nq a mexican tha t done the
c f this Lorenzo

Lopez done the shooting.

supposed to ha.ve do ne t he

ro bbi~

Ponce

and

was the man

and was identified by one

man in D'\Y jail, Ur. Adkins says 1 want My want
believe l can

robbi~

~orine

and I

a man tomorrow to identify them both ae

~et

be1 n~ 'n tltose raids down t h ere and ! bold a warrant for Mor j ne· n

Well the

:aa.~e rs

were

helpin~

us around there, you

know, and Tom Moseley wa s worki~ for the Cattle Ban~era Ae-

soc1ation a nd a ny time we would call on him tor any hel p,
any officer, he was always

will!~

to

~o ,

and ! wanted some-

body with me to help me. for protection i t

anythin~

should

oome up a nd ! took them and turned them over to Sheri ff Ad-

kins, and vr. Moseley,

or whoever i t waa, staid ther91and

Tom Allbri ~li.t brou~h.t me ba.olc.

TqE CrtA! RVAN:
to Sheriff

I wasn't tliere half an hour.

W'iere di d you t urn the prisoners over

Ad~ins?

A At the Jail.
I

et

In wliat town?

A In Sar j ta.
Q.

What county?

A Sarita, Willacy Co.

lie was Sheriff of the County and, Gentle-

men, they were· put in the Sari ta Jail.

!

saw tl\em

~o

in and

wl\en he del iYered me D\Y cbains and l{andouffe ! went home.
l!R. CA"'ALES: Q, What di d you say the name of the Sli.er1ft

of Barita was?

A It was Clint Adkins.
~ Js

he still Sheriff there?

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 A No.

Q, ~ere i e ':le now?

A He is dead now.

Re died at BrownsT111 e not

lo~ ~

o•

John

Cordova wl\o came th.ere to see if h.e knew Morine, he is th.e

present Sheriff of Willacy County.

.

He was tliere wh.en ! de-

livered the men at the Ja11.
TttE Cl{A!Rl'AN:

Who

were

th. e

Ran~e cs

that ·went up

there wi tl\ you.
! don't know wl\eth.er h.e was a ran~er at tl'tat

A Tom Moseley•
time or not•

ire was

worki~

f'or the cattle

~isers

Assooia.-

ti on.

Q, And

\dld

A Yee,

been associated with. t h.e Offjoers th.ere?

11.elpi:~

all of

tlth

He

would l\elp any officer that . wouJ.d

call on l\im.
Q,

What otl\er one?

A Tli.e other man ! a.m not sure, but 1 bel1 eve .roe Brooke.
Q, Is he at th.is time on tn.e
A I
~

~n~er

Force?

th.ink so.

Was h.e at th.at time?

A Yes

sir.

Q, Did both. of th.ose men remain in Willacy County and you

~o

back

wi tl'r the driver?

A Yea; ! came back with. the driver and J th.ink both. of them

said

t~at

they were

~oi~

to .Raymondeville.

to th.em I asked them if th.ey woUl.d
yes th.ey woUld

~o

because th.ey

~o

with. me.

wer p ~oin~

Tl\ey said

to Raymondeville and

to Brownevilletomorrow and would be qlad to
they went

When I spoke

~o

with me, so

alon~.

Q, D1d you eTer see those Prisoners an:y more?
A !

d:fd not.

Q. Do you know

anyth.in~

about wh.at became of theJ11?

A I do not•
l!R. and
CANALES:
Q. JoeCommission
Brot>ks ie in
Texas State Library
Archives

capt. Sanders Company

 is lie not?
A Yea sir.

Q When wae

Senator Witt!

l~ie?

A In Uay 1916. sometime after tne lOtli of lby uprisjng.
~You

made 2

di~~erent

&rips to sarita?

A No sir.
Did you take tnem both the same trip?
A Yes sir.
Ur. CAN.A:tES:

Q. 1it

Q. Wasn't capt. Ranson in

K!~sville alo~

about tl\at time?
A capt. llanson was there

dur:n~

Kr· Barnes and

Ooverrment.

tl\e

~r·

inveeti~at1on

of tne Federal

Wright both I believe were th.ere

from San Antonio•
A That is all .

EXAMJNED BY S.EWATOR WITT.
Q, was there any investigation made. by any authority, State or Fedio-

e:ral, ae to tne dieappearanae of those two men?
A If th.ere wae I did not know it.

EXAU!NED BY KR. TIDWELL:
Q Did you take the Sheriff's reoeipt for them when you delivered

th.e Prisoners to him? ·
A No eir, I did not, beoause we hardly ever do that.

Wh.en one

Sh.er1. f f calls on 'another one 1t is just tor a courtesy sake
you

know.

! never took a receipt.

Q, Do you know what became
w~etlter

of them, wheth.er they were mobbed or

they died or were turned alooee?

A

:r

~

Were they prominent oitizene 1n the community where you lived?

do

not.

A Ponce liad been there ab out 20 months, came £rom Mexico.
Q.

~

you know whetlter tltey ever had a trial at that tovn f

A No sir.
~You

never appeared as a witness

a~a1nst

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

them at a tri al?

 A No , never was called on ae a witness.
~Do

you ever h.ear; from any eouroe, tl\at they h.ai been taken out

of jail and murdered or

hu~?

A No ! never lteard tlta.t t"1.ey had been taken out of Jail· a rd l\urut.
Q,

delivered them to tite County Officials?

You

A County Slteritf,
~

Are you sure of that?

A I am sure of that, yee sir.
EXAMINED BY 'SENATOR \'l!LLID'O:RD2
Q,

You

nev~r

iteard of any 1ndiotment aqa1nst any one for killin'f

tl'\em?
A No air.

Q.

Their 1'\on:iee we'r e· in your County?

A No sir, th.is :man llorine' s 'home was in 1lex1co and everyw"lere-

you could' hear of l\1m most everywhere.
MR. TIDm..L;....,. He wae supposed to be a General in Vil la' e
A'1!f.lJY

wasn't

h.e?

A Yes I think so .
Tte was a refu~ee f'ro:m Uexico at t"iat time?

~

A Yes si:r.
~Do

you know whether he .went back to MeXioo?

A J do not.
Q, What abou~

Pono.. do you know what ltie connection was?

A So I learelled

th.rou~h. ciiftere~t

l!exicane that _knew ltim, I

believe he claimed 1'\imself tnat he was a captain over there
under

Vill~

and oame to tlte United Statee.

EXMl!NED l3Y MR. KN! GTtT ON BE!tA:tF OF TTtE ADJ'UTA?lT GENf

ERALS DEI ARTM.ENT.
~ ~aptain

djd th& autborjties unearth there in

in 1916 a conspiracy to develop an
·-

.a~tdnst

·

t~at·

uprisin~ amon~

Border

Count~

the Nexioane

tl\e Wh.i :te People down there?

A Tliey r.U d yes sj r .

Q What relation if any did those 2 men bear to that insurrection?

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 Jt you know? ·

l!R. · CllL\L:.ES:

A ! believe I know it.
Mr . KtUOtfT:·
A ! saw l\1s

ali.ead Captain.

Go

p1~clamation

and J think I

p:rocla.mat1on to tl\at e:rf'•ct.
in the Soutltern :O:i str5ot.

~ave

He 'ti.ad

a copy of Jose JIOrineS

or~anized

a company over

H1s proclamation read,

as well ae

:r reiDembel'"o ..
MR. CANALES:
'

~·

If tl\e

~entleman

hae tl\e proclamation

that is tl\e best evidence.
I

Q. T!ave you the proclamation?
A

Not w itl\ me.

Q. You nave read it?

A I have read it and I believe ! have it in my office; I am not
sure.
HR. CANA'Ll!5S We haven't any obj eot1 one to the proclama. t1on

be!~

introduced in the 1'V1denoe.

SENATOR

PAGE~

You have no objection to his reoolleot ion

about
MR. CA '11.LES:

denoe was

used.

bei~

THE CHAIRYAN:
alon~

A Well

accept this, ! thou'?;ht the rules ot evi •
.

Go ahead.

about somewltere the last of April or middle-m aybe

the middle of Apr11• 1916 , ! oould

ot

a n attempt

or an

called it.

t~i&

upr1eiru;"t Tl-\at Old San

be~an

1 asked some of those citizens

to bear it

Cannot you
t~e

Die~o

Die~o

move

here, •w•iat is

movt• ! never

t~o~~ muo~

'1 imee 1'.lad been rather equal.ly in that country and I
a~ain

the first direct news !
~

to hear once in awhil e

in 1916- the old San

upriei~

t~ey

about it.

be~1n

~et

and direotly !
~ot

~ot

news trom San Ant onio

of it over from the Valley.

the proclanation

wit~out

contents of it?

A ! would like to make it plain?

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

all

t~is

and

~ive

us

..

 tltere was a man there that 1ntormed me-T~ E
~

mtA!Rl'AN.

We hATe some rulee of eTidence
are

stretclti~

w• would be
A ! wa$

we must obeell'Ve.

\fhile we

tne rule• to let you state the contents of that

~lad

to let you do t'h.a t. · · .

warned to look out on t'h. e 10 t'h. of

out; ! ltad already 'lieard il't.

-.:

t~at

~.

'1 ·..,e'!an to look

~y,

tlte news

~ot

to San Antonio

and 1 wae notified from San Antonio to look out for t'h.e lOtl\ of

Jlay uprisim;·, a.nd, gentlemen, we did
the

ni~nt

busy to watcl\ tlte lOt'h.,

· ~et

ot trie lOtll., and to try to ltea.d tha t oft, prevent it,

to eaten them and there ie how came us to

~et t~is

Jose Marine was captured in San Antonio the

ni~ht

proclamation.
of the 9tb

on lllle ,,ay to KirU?;svill e.
~

With the proclamation on him?

A Yes, ! un darstand the proclamation was

on

him or wae taken a-

way from one ot his men, I don't know w1\1oh.
into

Xin~avilleby ~··

He wae

brou~l\ t

Farnes on the morning ·ot the 10th.
Who was l!r . Barnes? Of the .Federal

SENATOR WITT:

Sel."-

v1 oe was he not?
A Of

t~e

Federal service.

So tiiat day we beqan to

mke arreste on thi• proclamation and the

we 'SOt oft of

Pon~•·

investi~ate

d~fferent

letters

am.

t~at

We li.ad a. copy of li.is 1 ette~-or t'1e or1...

qinal letter tli.at Ponce had written to Morine and that Morine

had written to Pono.. weJ.l , we

~ot

eome letter

o~f

of Ponce

for »:>rine.
THE CftA!EMAN:

I do not want to interrupt you

a~ain

but the only permission we extended to you was to atate tli.e

oon•ents of that proo1arnation which you said you could etate.
A .Al.riqht exouee m••

Well the proclamation was to orqanize and

start tl-\e night of the lOb of l!.ay 1916 and blow up every town

and county seate trom Xinqsville to

~

Paso at one o'clock.

It was all to be touched off at the same hour.
hie proclamation.

·

Q, Whose name was siqned

to tria 't?

Texas
2GU State Library and Archives Commission

That was in

 A 3o se llorine. ·
Q. One of the men tlt4

you had under arrest?

A Tltat' s t'1e man-that was tl\e Captain.

Q. You l\eld l'lim and hio oo-oonspiratora tor th e Bedera.l Government?
A

Yee .sir.

Q.

Th:is proclamation and ot'1er data was turned over to tl\e

Fed~

I

era.l. autl\o:d ties was 1 t?

A ?think Mr . Barnes ltad t'1e proolama.tion copied and

~~ve

me co-

pies.
Q,

Just answer t'1e question please? rt was reported to t'1e Federal
Autl\ori t iea?

A Yes sir.
~

And yet tlt ey never 1ndictedh.1m tor any oonspi'tacy in th.e Fed•
era.1

Courts?

A Not that I know of.
~

You held him for eome time?

A Yee,, &.VeraJ. day.ea, I don't know Juet bow ma.ny.
Q.

The ?ederl\l Government took no action whatever witn

re£e~enoe

to it?
A Well I don' t know, llo.
'

Q. So far ae you know?
A St>

tar as ! tmos
JIP.. RllIGH'r:

upr1si~

Q, Was t't\e conspiracy suppressed and the

preven t ed?

A Yee air.
Did th.e Fedeml aut'nor1t1 ea ever au-

SENA'rOR Wl'TT:

throize
oth.•r

y~u

to

r~lease

tn$se mtn or tu11m them over to that

Sli~ri ft?

A lTo sir.

MR. KNf~ft:

Who arrested him- was it tne Fede11al ·Au-

Texas
261 State Library and Archives Commission

 t~•»itie•

or the stat e Authorities?

A Jlorjne?
Q, Yes.
A Wliy

:r. tltink it \las the. State a nd Feder.i.l both, was

standjn~,
sin~

at San Antonio.

We a ll were

worki~ to~ether,

u-

ev ery effort in the world to prevent it.
S.mNATOR WTLL!FORD:

ea~e

nw undel\e

You do not lmc. whether any knowl•

ever came to the present Governor and the Present

Adju~•nt

General , do you?
A No s:f r.

l'R. TIDWELL:

Are you still S"teriff of your County?

A Yes sir.
~ Have

Ran~ ers

the

co-operated with you or not in t he enforcement

of tlle law.
A Yes sir. ever

sin~e !

have been Sheriff•

Q. ffave you a.ny complaint to ma.k e ~a j net any

of them or any in-

d ividual. ?
A I have not.
~

Have you ca.1.led on them to assist you in anyway?

A Several time.
~

Did they a sejst you?

A Tl-tey di'1•
~

qave you seen them

e:xerciein~

ard

abus1~

their authority

in

theperformanoe of their services?
A

:r never

~

Ever see one of them in the

d.id.
Gamblin~

house

Gambl1~,

or one of

them drunk?
A

le ver did.

Q, Have you any complain t to ma.lee

a~a.inst

any way? It so ! would like to hear it?
A I have not in t'he l

26'~

Q, Row

lon~

Ea.

st.

have you been Sner:f ff?

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

the

Ba.n~er

Serv:fce in

 A Well al to~ether I serv:ed. as sn·e rif'f in

rained 14
~

nty

County wlt.ere ! was

yea.rs.

l' mean on the border?

A Four yeare.- ! am on my third tem.

q You think

t~e Ba~er

Ser.vioe is beneficial to those people

down there or not?
A ! think

so~!

know it.

as tar as you

ci W'iat would be the oondition, in your opinion,
t~e ~~er

know, in the County and State if

Foroe shound be

withdrawn trom down th ere?
A Jtow is tli.a t?.

\

Q, What

would 'be the condition,

·BO

tar as you know and the way

you see it a s a peaoe oftioer 1f the

Ra~er

f.oroe should be

withdrawn from down there?
A Well Gentlemen, and your Ronor• if tl'\ere was not some other
way provided for

to
Q_

le~ve

we would have to leaTe there-we would have

that is all.

You a.re 11ot hostile towards the 1.•ex1can popuiation because they
are !reX' cans?

A No s1r, I am not.
~

If. they are

1aw-,abidi~

citizens you look upon them like you

do your own nationality?

A Yes.
t~at
~

! rr.

Cana.lee father and brotner "1111 testify to tl'ta. t;

r have done lots of

~ood

Do you lc:now of a

sin~le

has miet.rea.t ed a

prieone~?

A ·y d.o

service for him.

instance in your County Where a

F&~er

not.
SENATOR WILLIFOB:

an offioial, do you think l'te

If a prisoner is turned over to
ou~ht

prooeed1n'SB if tl'tere is aruthing

to be kept for a court

~inst ~im

or do you think

be out to be primarily dealt with under oertan eiraumstanoea?

A Sometjmes we get a man and 1f we know he ie a

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

~ad

man and know

 th.at he knows that we are in possession of th.e faots and that
we know that he is a bad man a :-d a criminal and lte knows a
was not to ltold tl\at man awh.1le

th.ing, th.en if that, if we

we never would be able to arr:f.ve at
someth1n~

Q,

came

anytl\in~ at

all unless

out open.

Y.ou d1.dn't answer the quest,on ! ael<ed you; do you think a
peaoe officer should hold the pr:f soner to the action of tlie

courts or do you think he
Court

ou~nt

to be disposed of without any

Prooeed1n~s?

A No eir; there ou~ht to be compa41nt firled a~ainst h.1m or a
bi 11 to hold 'him.

MR.

KNIG~T:

! didn't

exactly catch the gentleman;

Are you in favor of puniah1n~ him accordin~ to law or by mob?
A Oh.,

accord!~ to law certainly••! didn't lmderstand 1 t.

t""R. T!DWELL:

Are the Amer:f oans or

an~ o- Saxons

arrayed a~ainst the NexScan Citi?.ena who are ~uilty of murder or are tney arrayed a~ainet th e Lawless?

A No, they wi ll

~roteot

them.

~ The Americans and An~o sa.xon oit~zenahip will protect the

?·exican c1 t1 zensltl.p?

A Yes

w~en

he is a law abiding oitjzen

t~ey

will protect him.

' Have you any Vexican officials in your Coumty?
A No sir.

~ J.ny juatiee of t~e Peaoe. Constables or Deputy Sh.eriffe of

Y.ex1oan E2ctra.otion?
A No not at !)resent.

We ha.ve a l'exi can Ja.n:l tor a.t the Court

house but there is no County otf1cials
VR. CA:N'At..ES:

amon~

them.

'Row far is Ki ?U?;avi 11 e from t lle Rio Grande

from :Brownsville?
A 118 milee.
~You don't call a Bo:rder County do you?

You are not consid..td

aborder county, it is a hundred and ei~hteen miles you say?

264 State Library and Archives Commission
Texas

 A Yee

.

s~r.

\

\Vere you acquainted with. captain Martin

JJH. KN!dB'.T:

who wa.o killed d0\'111 th.ere last year on th.e Kinq

Q, He wae ass6esination, ..... state the nanner

ot l-tie

~nch.?

talci~

off?

r. was not

A I oould only tell. how ! hoard lte was ta.ken off.
there.

Q, Well you, well h.e was assassinated?
A He was assassinated.
Q, The depredations tlien and the lawlessness

0

r th.e border

l\ ts

readli.ed way up that tar?

A Oh yes.

Q

T'~at 18 wli.y

.

you include it in th.e border?

A Well tli.at is wliat we

~enerally . ca:t.l

on

th.e lb~rde~-th.at

is my

understanding.
Q, Th.e border is not frjnged of tlie llio Grande?
A No a1 r.
Q, t:fow

lonis Y\ave you ltno m Capt. Hanson, head of t he

A J nave known

h.im~nd

known of h.im about 12 or 13 yea.re•

never with h1m much. unt11

Q I was

qoin~

durin~

jud~e o~

t~e

years

?

I was

last 4 years.
~ave

to ask you about what your relations

the last 4

.Ra.~ers

BB ~1vi~

been

you an opportunity to

nim not only as a man but as a fearless and capable

and efficient bumane officer?

A

'l\Y'
~ood

~

~e

has always--!

thou~~t

he was always a

~ood

ma.n and a

officer.

.Ras he been of service of not in build1ng up a condition 0£
law and order down

t~ere

in tltat lawless oountry?

A Yes air.
Q, To \"th.at extent if o.t ar.Ll h.ave you h.eard th.e law

stantiaJ. citizenry of th.e

265

borde~

abidi~

sub;.

bountry or1tieize h.im or h.is

a.dm~n:f stratj on of that offiae and the

oonduot of his department?

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 A I never have nearcl any.
Q, '1"'1at i s all?

lfR. CA,A:Ll.'S:

mto is the Captain ?artin you refer t o?

A Re ask el me if I knew Captain '!'art in;

r. knew him

an .F rank lnl'-

tin nt Faymondsville.

about 50 or 60 miles ·from t9here you tfe:re?

Q. Paymondaville '·a

A Yea sir.

You were not pr9sent at all1 all you know ia what somebody else

~

told yon about it?
A J 'know he is dead.

Was Frank Jlartin a

Q,

lbn~er?

A ! could not say whether ne was a special
Mll. Iill!OY{T:
A One ,art

Re was

mana~er

11an~er

or not.

of ti1e IO. ebe~ Ba.noh?

ot it.

1in. T:rDWEI.L:

!Tow far from

~ere

t1i.e Brownsville train waa raided and

you

E~ineer

lived to where
Kendall was kill-

ed?

A ! expect it

~as

about 100 m!les--it is about 100 miles

f~om

Brownsville isn ' t it?
~

No, about 90 miles.

A

About 90 miles.
!

~ad

one.

You asked me if 1 had any Mexioan Deputies

Itnou~ht

he was a

~ood

nan.

ffe was too old, he

was old but after the United States declared war a.ga.inat nel'%1lany h.e took ltis boys and went to liexi oo and tha.t 1 ef't me with-

out a Deput1.

rn. !J..OK _'T:
drawin~

W''len dj d you ti rat '1.ea.r ot" Capt . Sande re

a pis toil on l.fr. l!ook a.n

Attorney of your city- , 1 t

'happened at Falfurrias- when did you first hear of it?
A ! declare jud6Se I don't know when ·1 first '1.eard <>f it.

!

did

h.ear of it, but ! don't know wlio was the first one told 1 t. ·
~

Did you hear of it about the time it was supposed to nave haPpened?

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 A 7ell no eir.
SENATOR WITT:

Do you know Capt. Sanders?

A Yee cir.
~

Has he

wor~ed

with you in your

wor~

in your County?

A Yao s :ir.

q, ''111.a.t h.a.e been bis demeanor t'li.ere,
arbitrary

ae

fl. ~ o oo,

offi cer, or an

offio~r?

1915 with. Cap t. sande rs and Mr. va.nn

i~

A Twas in the valley

try in~

r wae do wn there several times. just

to help tlte off5.oere

you know and ! have liad Ce.pt . Sander• in my County and l ha~e
been wi tll li.im at different places when we woUld eta.rt out to
nake a run.

You akked me ltow

known lt1 m 26 years.
ha rt a nd I always
tioUl a~

officer•

lo~ !

nave known ltim.

I 11ave

I knew ltim wh.en lte was Sheriff at Lock-

tl\o~nt

tl'\a t Cs.pt. Sanders was a very

He was cautious and

c~utioned

nae sent me some of h.io men a nd he would

~o

pal'i

hie men.

with

oaher~

rrc
or

send eomebody else and li.e would eay " Now h.ere boye they tell

me, we

undereta~d t h.

or

don't do noth.ing raan" •

.

a.rtt bad

men. be oare.ful •. be careful·,

and t.1'\a.t i.e aJ.l ! lta.ve

~ot

to s ay a..

~'

bout it.

'

J.t.R. B!GlfT:

You have knot1 n h:im for 25 years; did you

ever know him to mistreat a prisoner or citizen, to your pel'!"
sonal knowled~e?
A No

sir.

Q, Di d you ever know an instance of :it except in tli.e case <> f 'Ur•

ttook?

A I nel'er have'•

-------o--~---·-

267
Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 :Mn. . CA'.l\!ALES:
acter~

ley

J'udi:r.e

brou~ht

:r. c.

l 'have one more witness on

44'or~•·

or two instances !

woul~.

char-

T1'te mt.airman will r €oa11 Gen e:al Ha ~

in quite a number of witnesses on the

d~tion ' cf aff~1ra t~ere

~eneral

~eneral

co?P

anrl T des,re to have him and! tvive one
11lce to ask hi:m a.bout in particular.

<lENEJlAI. RATILEY: r have one :w:ltness whose wif'e is 111
~et

and who would like to

ba.ok home, it is Dr· I,each of Sweet-.

water; ! und•rstand there is an epidem1o of Flu
ovm

W1f~

t~ere

and his

1e sick.

.T. C. OEOROE.
called as a witness by l'r. Ce.nlos ltaving been fi rat duly sworn

testified to the Col!ll11tt$e as followa:
EXAM!NED BY MR. CA"TAJ,ES:

' State your name?
A

:r . c.

~

Your profession?

A

r

Geora-e •
• i

am a lawYer.

~"lave lon~

have . you been

praot1oin~

law?

A s~ nee 8'7.
Q, °""'l e-re did you :p,.-aatioe ia.w bef'ore you came to nrow11sville?

A lfamil ton Cotmty and
Q,

~ow ion~ ~ave

::re.th

County.

you been in cameron County?

A J,! ttle over five yeare?
Q. State what offioia:L potHt1on you lteld --.dth. regard co th1a la.st

elect:fon •dt·lt th.e Gol'e:rnor'a race ?
A I was ch.a1rnan
campa.i~

oft~

County }l}Jceout1ve conm1ttee in the Robby

before the Prinartea.

Q, ! wieh to c2.11

you~

attention witlt

re~ard

to a traneaot1on th.ere.

You h.a.d some trouble yourself or'· th.e clients you represented,

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 with. some member of tlie

Bln~er

force,

wit~ re~rd

to

l"Unn1n~

off l1tGX1oans , off' ot tltei r . land,. state all tl\e facts to th.is
Com:n:! ttee.

A I don't know llr• canal es wh.eth.er l' can state tliem very
ly or not it has been so

and ! did not know

lon~ a~o

ca.me up h.ere ti.,at th.at wa.e wl'lat you was

or 1 oould h. sre
. wit~

~

be~ore

!·

to aek me about

papers :tn th.e case ·and refresh my memory

~ott"en

names. parties and dateC, but I suppo se you re£er to tl\e
brou~lit

su1 t t11at wae
w~at

~o'k~

acturat~

at tl\ e Dilar Villa Real, ! don't kno'\f

pert1oular pltase of 1t you want to aek me about .

You know, r talked to you

~n re~ard

to t hat matter-.

Go ah.ea.d and aak speo~ fi c queeti o JS Yr.

Tli-µ; CRA!Rlf.-A.N:
Ca.na.1 es?
~

With.

re~ard

t~

'thefact th.at those

oertain part,es

p er~ected by

the

~enetlemen

Ien~era

were l'Un out

and that

~ot

by

an il1-

junct1on and tliat ih.ese persons T:!ola.ted tl'le injuct:i on-- the
very

~n~ers

violated the injunction--

A Personally T cannot ¢eetif:t abo t1.t it except tlia t the a.ot:ion
1 took as an attorney in the case-•
~

Go

a~ead

and te•tifY to that?
G:Fl'tTEnQ;I, T:TARJ'..:E.Y:.

t would like to know under what

char11,e t.h 1e t$eti111ony 1 e beinGS offei-ed?
MR. CA'ZAI,F.S:

On the 1'eneral questjon of tl'\e dea-

perat'e ch.<i.r a cter of men tl\at you

GFiNEBAL HAm.EY:

1HE

0~1R'5ANt

·~ ave

on your force.

Tf the Comn5ttee sees fit to

!f

~o

't can be shown that they run

into
t~em

away from an election it can be done.
A

T~is

was not an election; it was a oaee of the

~~ers ,

certain partjes from running sheep from offtheir land.
Q.

When wae thief

A Two or three yea.rs

a~o·

Texas
2G9 State Library and Archives Commission

to keep

 J.m.

KNrGffT:

Jlandamue or

Kl! TGlfT:

Injunction

w}\ ~t?

A !njunctio n

r n.

T~E C~A! R~Aff:

A Yea, ! do n't want to be

alr1~ht.

can y ou etate about 1t? .
tellin~ oomethin~

tl1at

mi ~ht

be h eal'-

aay .
Q, \7ell state 1 t.

A

T'1e~e

was an old tellow natne<i Dilar Villa Rea.l and some sons

and rela tive& and probably son&,.:fn law newt'

a t:raat

'kn0'111't'l

Ki~eville

on

as Deillo Survey a nd rep resented to us that he

ha d l ived t li.ere for 30 or 40 year..• near a 11 ttle town ot Ha:l'l:f. n~ en,

11.a d been bom 3.nd raised t"'tere, a

t hey cla i med to us th.a t J1':tt• Lon

c.

~ood

many of t "em and

Hill and otl\er persona un-

der h.is c ontrol one in particula ,. one o-£ w 1ioh v:a.s a
1

~ W'1~t

A

was hi s name?
oal1 hi e name.

! cannot

S:eNATOR W! TTt

of t'1nt

A We

Ba.na;e~ -

Jhn~er

bro u~~t

a nd t heae

a

When yo 1~ ~o baok home find

out the name

and let us 'know.

~uit settin~

p eo~le

up the facta tliat Dilar Villa Real

owned th1s land and had been on it all t e s e

years and 'r• Ifill a nd thi s

y ou n~

~ellow des1~.ated

and pointed

ou t a e a

~~er

before,

l\e. was not a county of f :f oet--we o:ot out this little in-

j unction

a~ai ns t

t~:f

and who oarr1 e d· a pistol-· ! never n ad seen h i m
him, and th is fellow for ru. nninu then ott.

nk they claimed they burned their

housee~

!

I

don't know ju st.

how bad they were ! know they tmd.e it a brutal t a le to ua about
them

:runni~

them off a nd ! prepared a.
'

t h em s wea r to it a na took it befo r e

lo~

Jud~e

pe titi on

Hopkins a nd

and

h~d

Ju~e

a n injunct5 on and stopped. i t. Mr•
.
'
Vann c ened it a.nd in a. very short time atterward this same man
Jfopk:f na ve ry rea d,ly

~ranted

r epor ted ba ck to ua tha .t l~r. lUll a nd 1h1 s yo~ man

did not

pay al'ly 13.t t ention to tl\e injunction Ur. Vann had served on them

2·-·n
{ .....
Texas
State Library and Archives Commission

 and then I drew an a.tf1daTit
ed th.at over to 11r.
brou~ht

to

·vann

citi~

them for contempt and turn-

and ~ot Lon· and tll.is ot'her fellow and

them up there and Lon came in

ha.vim~

a h.ea.ring and we

insisti~

twistin~ a~ound obJeoti~
standin~

on Lon

up and

an.:.

swerin~ to t~e cltar~e and tli.e other boy, and finally lte to.ok us ·

off to one side and confessed if we would eaee u.p on ltim h.e would
quit,, him and the boy and if we would not put

lt:t~

in jail for

contempt , h.e would. pay all of t~e coats o'I pr¢Oeediniss-• which
! don't think he ever did•· but we let ltim

Jail and let the other
Y,OU ~eked

yo~

fellow

~o wit~out ~ojn~

too.

iso

l told you w· en

me that I d:id not personally know about it.
~ot

the paper& and

out

t~is

to

l drew

writs on the complaint and affi·

dav:tts of these men that they were ter1'0rh~in~ tltem and runnin~

off from th.ei r h.omee.

thern

cases.

Lon h.as neverinsi sted on tryins;: 'the

They are still there.

T1-te old man went back to tlie p1ace

a.nd died sinoe.
~

Lon

A

~e

c.

Hill is the one you refer to?

is the prime defendant and this other

think of his nme, a tall
eut a s a
~

s~ooth.

faced

your~

youn~

tellow 1 oannot

fellow and pointed

:tan~er.

Do you know in

w~ose

Company?

A lio I don't know, it has been 2 or 3 years a££<> and ! have not
refreah.ed my memQr.r about it.

You da. n firid ottt all about who

tYie fellow is.

q, You 'lave obeerved tlte oond:ition of the

lb.n~ers

:fn Brownsv111 e

and Cameron CoWlty and as to tlle necwssity of it; please state
to th.e Oonmi ttee your observation al on~ that line ?

A Well nq

personal observation does not extend outside of Just

around town.

I <bn't 'know bf personal observation

bout

one way or th.e

th.esem~n

Q, Have you observed

4 No

s:ir

anyth.in~

oth. ~r.

Gamblin~ ~oin~

on openly in Brownsville~

•

271 Q. A. iseneraJ. oond:i.tion of' drnnkennesa ove:t'
Texas State Library and Archives Commission

there?

a-

 A No Sir; conditions aze

mi~hty ti~ht t~ere

now.

Q ~ow lon~ has that ti~ht oondjt1on existed? .

A liver s'ir.ce the state 'lide Law was passed.

Q. 1n June ot lz;..st year?
A Yes sir.

Q. ! a sked you l'r.

Oeor~e.

as an Atf.lorney and a person who knows

those conditions out there and ao on, do you believe
t;n~

A No. !
Q. t/:f ll

the

ra~ers unde~

t~int

you

dest~oy

bond will

t~at

put-

their effiaienoy?

it would increase it.
' .

pl~aee e~lain

.

to the Comn.ittee your answer?

That '&Oes into the realm of policy.

MR. KlUOWl':

TqE CttAIRl'AN& It is one of the matter• to be

!nq~ired

into.
A Gentlemen ! tl-tink th1s a'bou t, jt; I t"'Jnk t&'1.a.t 1n the .Pant;ers
a.o'lfm t'1.ere, 1 f you want to lcnow my opinion, I believe tl\at all

of thiP Country from where Capta1n Cardwell lives do"t"m. to wher3

then on

we live a nd
ble both

fo~

tt!.a.lly do; .

u~ t~e ~iver, that EP.n~ers are indjs~ensa-­

t'1e mora.l etfeot
T'i.ey are

ot

ef:t"i d~ ent

! t a.nd for the.

~ood

they ac-

and the labors th.ey perform

I

e.c v:el 1 e.s th e mor:al effect but ! do belieTe ttiat in the l ast

3 or 4 years th.e
not h.elp from

Ra~ers

do~ng

th.in~•

1'\a.ve done eome

and probably

ou~ht

that they could ·

t

never be mentioned.

t llin1c on t.he ot,1er "land th.ey have done some

th.in~.

~one

too

f'ar. e.nd p orh.aps private c5t:Jzeno have done just the ae.me th.in'J.
bu~ bein~ Offi Cera Of

Pnd enforce the 1e.w J
11ould be
o ne o anC.

tl-\e lE'.Vi' a.net

.
believe the

authori~ed
i nterest~

CS.~191

weapone

of public justice

eerved .: by :ray:Jn~ th.em more money and ~ett:! na: 1'letter
putt:f~

them unda:r. bond.

I ha...,

a nd of couree I hmre been acquainted
30 yea re.

to

11ved ti-\ere eome yeare

~1th Ra.n~ers

for more th.an

! used to be Di str' ct Attorney and ~ l'la ve ~tclted

theJn a "!l A-1 on~ the 11ne.
a.long w1thout tl-\e

B$m~ere ·

I really believe we could net
We nave

~ot

a pecuJ.iar atf;4te of

s oaruoro~n
:\,.
Texas State Library and Archives Commission
atfai l 's down tll.ere Gene•er.~en.
-"

"'
.i..r.

~et

a while

~o

could

 per'1apa liave 'liven you· moreinf'omation tliat n ~ can ~ive you.

Th ere have been lot·e of' men vrho hav e eTapora.ted in th.at coun•

tnr in tli e la.st three or 4 years

am

l

not ill tlte attitude of

· nquir:f no; into a nd -.ras not w'i.en ! h eard o-r tl\eir evaporation .
bttt it would lie talked aroun'f upon the i:Jtreet t.h e next
,T

cla.y.

remember tli.e incident t h ri t Atkins wn& suppo s ed to "lave brouqht

t~ie

man do•n to 8rownev1lle; I remember

oomi n~

down on the

tra in se'V'eral ot'tler t'mes 'vhen people were suppos ed t o come to
BrowneTfll e ad never 11.o t ti,e re.

J am not p repar e d to criticize

l{r. Atkine, llr• Scar'horou~h. or any bf?dy else, while

that we need
Ra n~ er

Forae

hi~h

here a
~entl

:Ran~er

of respona1b111ty

amon~

the

enen.

SEN'ATOR PAOE:

tha t t h e

d~~ree

tnink

T

:P'orce

Q. What do you thjnk ab out
ou~'ttt

admitMwt

to be bonded, t.Yi.e priva tes--- t."1. e

practicality of that proposition, the .'\vera. t?e

~n~er

~" ve

them a nd Conattl

a bond, eu rety oompan' es would not

would not•• wl\a.t do

~rou

~rite

oould not

th:fnk abou t the pr.l.cti cality of 1 t.

A ! th.:f nk th e State ouo;'tt to pay triem

enQu~h.

th.a t th.ey can afford

to pay the premium on th.e:f r bonds.
Q; '! do not be11 (fife you could fjnd a. Surety Comr>any tli.a.t would
oi~oumstancee.

write them under any

Do you belise

A l don't know, I never inqu ired. 5nto th a t.

yo~

:rt m,:- iy be

could?

tl-\a t

they

would not.
Q Do you tldnk the matter oeuld be rea c1'1.ed it th.e offi c e r e or

Captain- ot tlie

~n~er

Force

shoul'~

be

l'~ttired

to

~i ve

bond

arid made str:f ct1y responsible for th e a cts of the men d irect-

ly under ltim!
A '.t thlnk the !.e~1elatu:re oouJ d ena ct a. l aw p utt j n£S the Cn.pta.1n

under bond and ma'k:i11~ bhi responsible for t n3 aots of t. ~ m~n
in lt1s CClmpany.
~

Do

you t~1nk tha t would meet the exi~encies of the situation?

A Poss1bly so.
rn~.

OA'NJ.l.ES2

You

l-\av e 'hea.rd about tlla t nan Garcia

Texas
27B State Library and Archives Commission

 tha.t vras ta.teen by the ~~era trom Point Ysabel on the road ·

t o f:A n Benito a nd also eva:pora•ed?
A ! am

d ef ~nd i n~ t~ose ~entlemen .

Q, T'-, a.t i

B

a ll •

T"'a. t evapora t i on was

'R. lCUG"CT:

unobj ectionable

wa.on ' t 1 t .r u rJge?
A Well

! ria.ven t t

lU:Ln~er

Q. ! an't ti'tat
t i:r~

on

filed a.ny .

~h. e

_ out~rowth

Se:tvice an

Border,

of the c ond :i tio ns exis-

f or:inata,nc a t1te re i s c ome of Vill u. ' s l!en

and Lopez man come aol'Oss and depredate. the
! take it.

~olioeraen

lar~e

on a

back aorosa, .any sort

ar

arr~t

.tan~ers

t erritory. tho s e men coUl d

MR. V:!!.:LIFORD:
Sta tute~ , cou1d

Tan~ ers are

~et

~ et

baok wh.il .e

wa:r.i..·in~-

a

oouJ.d b e re~ul ated by a sp e~ial

it not?

r.im. K1-TGGl'!T;

A '.1"1e

Tllat

~et

without a warrant would render

t licm 11 able and th.e ba.ndi ts oouJ.d oome over a.nd

t "1.e 1-a!l.'!:er a we re go j no; o : r to

are really

Proba bly

n'30ee$a.ry.

so.

Tltey a:re absolut.ely neaeesary• in

my jud~ernen t , but tlte point is this; it won't do, in my jud~c­

ment. to :pl a ce
Ran~e r e

the exercise of tlte

~reat

di coretion as

t~e

aometjme h.ave to exercise 1n the hands of men wlto are

no t really mo r e responeible than some o f t lte boY s are of a
h i ~ "l1.er

aense of' l"eepcn aibility

hi ~he r p~y

and

hi~her

is what tl-\at country needs.

and t.hen if they are forced in an

reqa irementG and

We n&ed bett er men

ame~ency

to do

aome t'liin~

t na.t aometimes lta s to be done they will know h.O\V to do it.
~

T,.,e

JJ!mer~anci e~

are frequent down th.e re when action 1s imp er-

at1ve and medi tatl on is al4ba equant t o t'lia.t?

.

.

A T11r-:.t :ls \'rli\a.t l say, th.a. t ia, wlty you want

'1i ~h.

cla ss men.

Q, Ti,e y o1 ,n~ man t '1at wae wi tii. my friend Lon Smith--

A Lon 'Iill?

n'

t '.li.e?

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 .t

I don't know. That is the reason I told mr. Canal es

like to have hie name. I was under ~he impression he wae a .
Ranger. He might not be. That can be determined, o~ course.
Q

When was that?

A

Two or three years ago.

Q

1916, wasn't !t?

A

Probably 1916 or maybe as far

Q

That was before the elootion of Governor Hobby?

A

Yes, sir. r think the boy wee under bad advice and I

bac~

as ' 15.

think llr. Rill's aotion ~as not justified and so told him. :.tr.
u111 is s good friend of mine, and we had to make him behave, .
ie all.
Q

You le.ave the impression oil

my

mind that the average

officers end citizens enjoy the ~eilings of human nature.- they
are not 'Perfect?

A

No, sir.

Q

Th~t

law s ~it, I undegstond, some effort on the part of

ton !1111 3ncl his henchman to cl i Eroseae:fsome individual?
A

Absolutely by force, ia what I thought about 1t.

Q

~id

A

I~o , I

the party being dispossessed have paper titlo?
don't think any mau in that country has paper

title to that survey of land.
Q

Cstoh-as-outch-oan and hold all you get?

A

Uot exactly that. These people i7ere descend ants of this

ola. Mexican 11ho livell man~,T years there and they probably had

better .title than any living man, by limitation-- haa better title
Lon hae.•

than

Q

r.~1ch

A

The !.Iexioans.

Q

Did not represent Lon? Do you remember the c1rcunstanoes

side did you represent?

0£ one of the county commiss ioners down ~here being checked in

his career as a bootlegger by the rangers?
A

I aaw then- - -I was there.

Q
275
They never hesitate to oooperata with the lew and order
Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 element of the country, as far as you have observed and
know?

A

Well, I cannot say that. I think there has been a

lot of friotion ·there between the local authroit1es and the
rangers•
Q

Yes?

A

They have not got along well.

Q

!here was some friction between the rangers and that

oounty commissioner was there?
A

Yes, sir• decidedlf.

_They took him out of the county• ..:

I met thee juat before they crossed the Hidalgo county line
with him.
Q

As a matter of

~m"K

faot, you personally had called the

Rangers to your relief and assistance there, at Edinburg,- Did
you have some trouble there with them and called the Rangers
to come and proteot you against

t~e

sentiment of the communit1

in some way?

A

I don't know. I don't know what you are speoak1ng

Q

Last J'ane, something about some clients of yours you

of.
were defending, that the sentiment became aroused and you took
the preoaution to wire for some of the Rangers to come there
and restore order. - at l!eroedes?
A

Mercedes?

Q

Mercedes, yes?

A

No, I

\

\,
~

\

don't think you have got that right.

Capt. Stevens--did you call Cs-pt. Ste-,,ona to assi1st\ .' . ~
'
. \ ~ "
you in s situation there?
~.I
Q

(

A

had · him in hock, and I went up there to get
him loose and he would not do it.

21(1 State
Texas

.

No , Captain Stevens had oharge of one of my clients

O Capt. Stevens was a Ranger?
A Yes,and
sir.Archives Commission
Library

Cs~t.

Stevens ·to
'I
I .

"

j

 277

\

~'
\

\'
\

Q

Haa one of your clients

A

Yes, sir.

Q

Wouldn't turn him loose on your suggestion?

A

Mo, sir.

Q

You didn 't blame him for that?

A

rrot at all.

'•

UR. XNIGHT :

?

Doeen't it sometimes occur that the inve stigat-

i on of t he local off icers are visited in gossip and suap1oion
· on the Rangers?
· A

.fire.

I sum,ose tho1·e is always inore smoke than there is

I think the Hangers are oredited with doing things,

that propably other people do.

· Q

You think the Rangers are credited with doing things

that probably other people do?

They are not identified with

the locals like other people?
A

The fact is. that t he Rangers are a kind of terror,

you know, to evil doers- - Q

Exaatly.

A

I think the moral effect ·o f the presence of the Rang ers

is a fine thing, aa well as the aotual worth and efficienoy of
tho Itang ers .
Q

Are you personally acquainted With Capt. Hanson?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

Do you know his offioial oonduat?

A

Not extensively.

Q

What you do know?

A

I think he is a might y nice gentleman.

Q

What is your opini on of the

ef~ioienoy

of the department

under him and his management and «1reotion of it?

A

He has been ve~y attentive, as far as I know .My know-

ledge of Capt. Hanson is rather casual.
Q

Going back to your bond f eature, and I see reasons for

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 th.1Dgs of that kind,- the only di fficulties I see are the
praoticable difficulties. Suppose it would be impossible to get
bonds in any oompsny, and I think it would be, do you think it
beat to do away with the.Rangers -or let the bonds go?
A

I think that then they ought to be g1ve~ 1 bie safe guards

that the Legislature
them.

oan throw around for the protection of

There ought to be such things as having ! t determined

with other high class men.
HR. LACXEY:

Do you know ot any specific acts of any

Ranger in the Valley thore in your county or adjoining oounty
that would bring discredit on. the Ranger service, from an7
captain, private or sergeant, any of them?

A

Not from my personal knowledge.

Can you give us the name of any witness who does know
any specific act?
Q

A

Well, -- not without-- I Will say this,- there are men

here like Capt. Vann, Mr. Canalest Mr. Hells and Mr. Rabb over
there, and Judge Kirke over thore, who held the examining trial
in some of those cases; they oan gi~e you tho names of people.
better than I oan, although I would not like to say under oath
th.a t I could not give you name. I just cannot now recall them.

I think from what I have ~uggested to you you can get more
information from those men than you can fr om me, especially

.

Capt. Vannt who is sheriff of the county, and has been on

these raids and he knows about what has happened rmch more
accurately than I do. Re oan give you the names of th~ men
who have or have not done things.
MR . KNIGHT:

I will ask you one question:

~

You have

be~n
\

in that country how many years?

A

Going on eight years •

Q

During the last three years. from the time

\

\

youw~

\
down there, I will ask you to state whether or not th~ ~itger ~.
27~
Texas

State Library and Archives Commission

.

t~

I
I

.,.

.,

;"\

\

 service baa not been improved from the standard in the particulars you speak of?
A

When I first whnt down there there was nothing particularly

on and when this trouble. oame up in 1915 and just suoh eorapes
happened as Capt. Scarborough told aµout, they were happening
all

ov~r

the country; it wasn't the Rangers altogether, it was

deputy sheriffs and sheriffs and river euards and the immigxiation agents and Department . of Justice ,- there would oome in all
kind of tales Ivery few days while that banditry was going on;

r

the country was full of these people, ! think,_ no doubt. there

was fifty or seventy-five of them killed, that came over from
that side.

I went out on some of the hunts myself:

I was

out there once the next morning after they found those two boys
dead at the Fresnos.

I did not see anybody killed bnt I know

they were scouring the whole country. r was out there in an
I

automobile, helping hail people around. Didn t find any one to
my knowledge but I heard it reported afterwards that people
were found, found dead.

I don't

thin~

the Rangers were any

worse than the lawyers on the proposition, but what I failed to
tell you was this: that thing kept on and kept on until there
was a good deal of complaint of the Rangers goine too far, some
of them not

bei~g

prudent enough: that is what mek es rne say we

cannot get along without the Rangers but we want character with

it.

' '

EXAMINED BY UR• CANJ\TJES !

Judge Knight asked you about this commissioner, ,this bootlegger ooimnisaioner.

r

would like, if you know of your

ow~

\

personal knowledge, to tell the whole transaotion?'
A

I don't know the whole traneaotipn of

m~

I

I

personal\\

"~\

knowledge,- I just know part of it.
Tell what you know?

A

The day before the prlma~v. I think it was, I think

279 State Library and Archives Commission
Texas

i.
~

Q

1

\

I,\ \

 on Friday, I wae up in the Valley and the first thing

was

I saw was a oouple of

\\

~angers

with Eddie in tow in Harlingen,

about forty miles from where he lived, under oircumstnnoee
that indicated they had

~rought

him in a oar from down that

way and tha·~ was· the information I got from the Justioe of the

· Peace's office. I went arouna out of curiosity to eee what

was going on and to pay my

r~speot ~o

the county commissioner

and I had ocoaaion to go on up into Hidalgo

Count~

that even-

ing in my car on my own bus!neas and away later In the

just before n1ght,some

hou~s

evening,

after I had seen him at the. Justice

of the Peace ' s office where I supposed he

~as

going to be bound

over for some bootlegging information, as I understood that

was what they had him for. I met Eddie and these same

~angers

going rapidly toward Hidalgo County line e.nd very close to it •

.

probably just over 1t, or right at the line.
Wasn't that st the time tha t I was with you, and weren't
oleetioneering
you and I/~ee4;a•iHe for Governo~ Robby?
Q

A

That is what we were up. there for, and since I recall

it, you are the man that was with them, you were the man we

met; you l'i-ere with them when we mot them; you were distributing

Hobby literature.

MR. KNIGHT:

But still you have not

ans~ered.-

your connect-

ion with the booze itself?
.
.
A
I don't remember connecting with thst booze.
MR. CANALES:

Judge Tidwell asked

~

about the

threat~

upon my 11f&9 he has been askine about common report of threats
upon my life. I would say he could inquire about that.
MR. TIDWELL:

You may inquire about that.

HR. CANALES:

I simply tender tho witness. 1f you

..
I

deai~e

to inquire.
MR. LACKEY:

'\

What did they do with the man oharged W1 th

bootlegging in that county?

\

I think
frainds Commission
get together and made him a bolld . I
280 State ALibrary
Texas
andhis
Archives
'•

\

 think they turned him loose on bona.
Q

Do you know whether or not they took him up there so he
•

oould give bona?
\
I~

\

A

No;

he cnuld give bond better down there the other

Q

What was the idoa for taking him u:p there?

A

That is what I don't know.

way.

11)'

}

'

MH. CANALES: Q Tho following

day w~a

the primary electi on?
~..now.

A

Yes, sir. I had an idea but I don ' t

Q

And that commissioner has some popularity in hie own

precinct, hasn't he:

•

A

V'ell, out of 102 he would get very ne ar 101-~. (votes )

THE CHAIRMAN:

What was this man's name charged -r•.i th

bootlegging ·?
~dwards,

A

Eddie

Q

Is he a Mexican?

A

Oh,

Q

His home is in Cameron County?

A

Point Isabel, Cameron County, I suppose ·seventy-five

no~

we call him.

he is an American.

miles from where I last saw him with the boys.
Q

.If he was oharged with the

commis sion of a felony

less than capital, of course, he would be entitled to ba11?
A

Sure. They denied him bail. I went in there and they

refused him bail.

Q

Who did?

A

The Justice of the P-aoe.

Q

And

•

~angers?

A · No; Judge Mothershead was the lawyer that was there;
he did that.

He said it was not bailable, he said it would not

be bailable•
Q

Could he have made bond it they had granted it to him,

in a reasonable sum1
A

They would not grant 1t to him

281 State Library and Archives Commission
Texas

at that time.

 Q

That is not what I am asking you?

A

Could he?

Q

Ye a, air.

A

He could probably have made bond for fi f ty thousand

dollars.
1
.:

~\I

\
~
I

Q

Tho were those Rangers taking him i nto Hi dalgo County?

A

I don't know t heir names. You ooutd fina out wh o they

are. It is a matter of public notoriety in t own. - everybody
saw it; wasn't any seeret; they were wal king him eround the
Justice 's office, parading up t he street and put him in a oar
t~ey

and took him down the b18 roaa. I suppose

met a hundred

peopl e.
Q

Ware there any conditions existing in Cameron County

taken \

that would have made it unsafe for him to have been
back to Cameron Oounty for the purpose of making bond or

\

being placed in jail?
A

Not a particle.

Q

Was there any efforts, as far as you

I

kno~, evq~ 1 ma\de

to have h1m taken a"·ay :from thore •t
A

'

'~

,i I
I

Not a· particle .

\

\

pe~e

If they had taken him before any

officer he v;ould immedia t ely had mad e hond for h,is appearance
and anybody woul d have-Q

Wasn ' t there a dis t ric t ju dge nvnilable in Cameron

.

~

County?

A
ti~e

(

1

I don t remember wheth or he wa<i 1n the

:~ " nty et t ~t ~

or not . The district judge livas in Corpus Chri sti, out of ·
.

I

•

the county. The county judge was there and the j):lstiee
.

pPace was there; they took him out before this

I

o~

th&

~

.~;a J'ust1~? 1

of

the Peace, ae I recollect, and Mr. Mothershead, ,.!tho is a "
1\

lawyer friend of mine, said he ouuld not be bailed. I got._the
.

\

book and showed him the page, artiole and number and put my
'l

finger on it for him, and he finally gave in that he

oo~ld

be ·,·
\

bailed.

I thought the fellow then would make bond 1n a little \

28:~ State Library and Archives Commission
Texas

 bit and be turned loose and I went off, and thought he would
be turned loose in a few minutes. and next I saw

o~

them was whe

Canales and I met them going out with.them.
Q

l"bd those were two RaDgers, you say, taking him out?

A

Yes, that is my impression. I sµppose Joe knows who

they were, if he don't I am c ertain he can get forty men who
do. There is no doubt but what 1t was Nangera that had him. At
least that ie my testimony under oath, according to my recollection of it. ! just cannot point them out.
Q

You think the personnel of the Ranger

section oan be
A

~oroe

in that

1m~roved'

I think the porsonnel of those boys that had him, that

is just tho ktnd of thing that I tk say should not be done. That
is why I say

~ou

ought to have men of a higher degree of

discretion than to do that.
Q

Has not the conduct of the Ranger force in that section

discredited them in the eyes of a groat many

~eople?

so.

A

I think

Q

Po you th1nk those condt1ons should or ahoula not be\

remedied?
A

.,.

. I think they should be remedied and in the manner I ha'~
l'.

indioatod and go right on.
Q

'

,...

You think by

~aying

"""

f'

higher salaries and inducing better

~

men to come into the service·?
A

That ls the idea. Gapt. Hanson or any other captain

oan not be with his

~angers

at any

o~e

\I

time; they. have to be

distributed and scattered out in the country and then it devolves~
upon the 1ntell1genoe and moral character and the indiv1d1lal and
moral etamltla and act of the 1nd1T1dual

~angers.

That ie why

they should have high olass men •
Q

.

You spoke of having trouble. which of the three Rangers

are your clients?
A Al1 three of them.
Texas State Library
and Archives Commission

\
\

h

 \'rnat were their names?

Q

Sitt re, Saddler a nd Looks.

• A

They a.re the men who are cha rged vd th the evaporation

Q

of one
\

~exican

from---

A

? oint I sa bel.

Q

What was his name·?

A

Florenoia Garcia.

Q

Where were they supposed to be taking him ?

A

I am just telling you the report came to me from outside

- -not asking what I krlow about my case from my clients. I will
tell you what was reported .on the street be1ore those gentlemen

aatle to me. ·that they were arrested on the Rabb ranoh and
carried to Point Isabel-MR. R.ABD:
A

ranch

\'.'e di dn't have any on the Rabb ranch.

I mean Piper. He was arrested somewher e on the Piper
an~

taken to Point Isabel and started from there to l'stBi

iaalnd Brovmsville and tba t is tho la.st he 11aa ever seen alive •

.

Q
.A

1

.lha t

are they charged with now?

I expeot tl~ey are charged with murder

by

now. From what

I know of the . complexion of the present grand jury do~~ there.
Q

Is t he grand jury. of Cameron County in session?

A

I think so.

Q

Have complaints been filed against them aharg1ng them

with murder?
A

Evidently. I think Capt. Stepaens was With them when

they oame to my office to defend them.
arrest then.

I think they were under

Q

And under bond?

A

I don't know whether they were under bond or not~

I'

think the oaptsf.n had them v1i th him and he had the warrant •. I

think Vann swore out the complaint against them. I think it was
Captain tann, and he was sheriff of the county.
Texas
Z84 State Library and Archives Commission

\

 The thing I wanted to e stablish 1 a ""hether there was

Q

complain·~ a'-~ainst
\

\

those three men at this time in Cameron

County?
A

Hy idea is

that t he matter is unde~ investigat i on end

they are probabl y indicted.
Q

You do know that they staild charged in some of the

courts in Cameron County. with murder at t~is time? Just answer
that .
A

I cannot answer tha t " yes" or "no" for this reason.

Somebody made complaint, before the Justive of the Pea ce

or some peace officer and issued a warrant of arrest on i t and
Vann sent that warrant of arrest to Capt. Stephens and Stephens
brought them in my office; they were bound ov~r to await the
action of the grand jury. The grand jur~ f ailing to ind!ot.as murder 1a never barred, . the present grand jury is investiga ting them and by this time they are .probebly indicted. That

1a 811 there is to it.
EXAMINED BY MR . KNIGH!r:

The first grand j ury Wh i ch met after the oocu~renoo
r efused to indict them?
Q

A

Yea, sir.

Q

The second one did?

A

Probably the third.

MR. WITTE:

I am anxious to know what they were taking

that commissioner out of the county for?

A

You can ask them. You oan get them. I juet passed them

in t he road. I have got my opinion. I think I know why they t ook
him out of there.
·SENATOR PAGE:
A

Judge, di d they have any liquor With them?

They never offered me any.

n!E CF.AIRMAN: Seriously, do you know what became of any of
the whiskey that they took away from this supposed bootlegger,
who was said to be a county commissioner of Cameron County?
Texas
State
Library and Archives Commission
28.j

 A

No, sir.

SENATOR WITT:

How long before that Commissioner returned

•

to his home?

A

In a day or two.

He got baok in time to vote next

day. I think his friends got after him and got him loose.
MR. JmIGRT:
Q Do you know whether or not they have what they oall

a Federal zone down there, where the rangers acted under Federal

warrants or something?
A
I don't know whether they aoted as Federal agents. I
know that they have a zone law, that it is illegal to sell
liquor within a certain distance of solders' oamps•
Q

They did give him a chance before that Justice of the

Peaoe to make bond and he said it was not a bailable. oase?
A

I understood before I left that they were going to

let him have bail.

They took him to this fellow's office.

l happened to drive up there and they said "There are the
Rangers with Eddie Edwards," and I walked up there beoause I
knew the Justice of the Peace and Mothershead and--Q

'

You say that man waa Mothershead that said it was not

a bailable oase•t
A

Yes, sir.

THE CBAIRllAN:
Q Was he from

~rath

A

I don't know.

MR.

~:

County also?

Was there any assurance that any other Justice

of the Peace would give him bail lny quicker than this one1
A

Oh. yes.· At Point Isabel or at Brownsville they would

give him bail right now.
SENATOR WITT:

You don't know the names of those two

RaJJgers?
A

.No, sir.

YR.

TID~LL:

Military district,- Brownsville is 1n a

military district?

Texas
280 State Library and Archives Commission

 A

Well, there is a post there.

Q

Don't they have a post there?

A

Yes, right 1n the heart of the town.

Q

Wouldn ' t he be guilty of violating the State law

with reference to what is known as the Zone Law passing there
as well as an ordinary bootlegger?
A

I don ' t just recollect the wording of the statute.

Q

Isn ' t there also a Federal law where a man is intro-

ducing whisky around a m1latary post?
A

!ly reoollection is we had two or three statutes

about that time, one Federal and one constitutional, one of
which has been held unconstitutional since.
EXAMINED BY

:t.m.

LACKEY:

Q

Where _you saw this man was ten miles from Brownsville?

A

He was 28 miles from Brownsville. They caught him .at

Point Isabel, I understand .
EXAMINED BY lm. TID\VE1".iL:

Is there a squad of soldiers kept at Point !sable all the
time?
A

\V el~.

I think t here are some soldie-rs kept there to

guard the light.
Q

Will you kindly tell the committee. if you oan, why

they were taking him to Brownsville?

A

I

say I can only express my opinion about 1t.

MR. KNIGHT: Express it. I would like to know.

A

I do not think it was intent to do the man any bodily

harm. They did not hurt him, did not offer to hurt him. They

were • ot trying t o hurt him.
CHAIRMAN BLEDSOE:

Do y-ou think they were taking him away

from there to get him away from his friends where he
~

oo~l d

not

make bond to delay him for a few aays?
\

281

Texas

A Yes? sir , I think t~ey were taking him away fro~ t~ere
so he
could and
not be
there next
da7 at the primary-.
State
Library
Archives
Commission

 287

im. KBIGHT:

If he had stayed there with that whisky they

would have had a hilarious time next day, wouldn't they?

A

I expect so.

HR. CANALES:

With regard to the charges here, with regard

to making threats upon me:

you have heard that report in

Brownsville?

A

Yes, I heard the report. I never heard the threats.
Threats made

CHAIRMAN BLEDSOE:

some member of the

by

Ranger foroe against llr. Canales?
A

I just heard that he had been t hrea tened.

MR. KNIGHT:

That is just the report you saw in the paper

1n oonneotion with this matter?
A

No, sir, I heard it long before I oame up here.

MR. LACKEY:

Have you heard anybody say that they heard

the Ranger make the threat or just general rumor?

A

Just general talk. I don't know whether any Ranger

.

threatened Hr. Canales or not. I never heard one say an unkind
word of him.

D R.

S.

N.

L E A 0 B;

having previously been sworn. testified
· DI R E 0 T

a~

follows:

E XA !! I N A T I 0 N

by General Harley:

28~
Texas

Q

State your name, residence and

A

s.

Q

What is your occupation?

A

Physician.

N. Leach;

ooou~ation?

Lyra.

State Library and Archives Commission

. I

•

.
l

 I will ask you if you were present in Nolan County

Q

when there was an inquest held over some man who met death
in the jail there?
A

Yes, sir.

Q

Do you remember what h1s name was?

A

I think Bostick.

Q

Do you know what the man was charged with?

A

I think murder, possibly.

Q

1furdering who?

A

I don't really know the man's name, while I do, if I

beard it.
Q

Was it not Judge Higgins?

A

Yea, sir.

Q

Charged with murdering Judge Higgins?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

State to the Committee what your examination showed

.

there With reference to the man's body: did you examine it?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

State whaf your examination showed?

A

He was hanging

by

a strap, evidently his belt, his

pant'e belt, to one of the iron bars of the walls of his cell,
with a handkerchief stuck in his mouth, crammed down hfs throat.
I believe either his right or letf hand was slightly bruised,
was the only evidence of external violence.
Q

·What was slightly brus1ed?

A

The le·ft hand, if I remember oorreotly was slightly

bruised.

Q

What was your opinion as to the cause of his death?

A
\

I thought he committed suioide

by

hanging.

I

Q; · Were there any Rangers there at that time?
A

In Sweetwater?

Q

'
Yes, where this happened,
that is Sweetwater?

289
Texas State Library and Archives Commission

\

 •

A

Yea, air.

Q

Were any Rangers 1n town and there present at the time?

A

I don ' t think at the time of the inquest, not that I

remember.
Q

Were any Rangers staying at the jail there that you

know of?

A

No, I don' t know of any.

Q

You don' t know whether there were any Rangers in town

at that time, do you?
A

At that time, or not, I do not; they were in and out

every day.
~

EXAUINED BY SENATOR PAGE.

Q

You say you think it wae a euioide?

A

That is my

Q

You supposed he pushed that handkerohief down his throat

opini~n.

to prevent himself from ory!JJg out?
A

I think so.
EXAMINED BY MR. FORD.

Q

Was he in a cell?

A

Yea, sir.

Q

I: will ask you if h1s clothing was not in one cell and

I

he was in another and different oell from where hie clothing was?
A

The best I remember his clothes were in the same oell

near the door.
'. Q

j

I

I

/f,

;

At that

Q

They were open?

A

The oe11 door T'as , yee, sir.

Q

) A'

/

Q

ti~e,

yes, sir.

· How about his handkerchief? Did you pull the handkerohie:f

~t o~ his

,

o~en?

A

I

I

The oell doore were

mouth?

Ye.a , sir.

Was i t pretty difficult matter to get it out, or. not?

Texas
2~u State Library and Archives Commission

I

r- '

 A

Not Tery. It was well down in his throat though.

Q

How far down do you think it was?

A

Well back to what we call the pharnJX, as far back as you

could push it conveniently, a portion of it.

Of course it was a

large red handkerchief, bandanna, I believe .they call it.
Q

How long had the man been dead, do you have any idea?

A

Probably several hours, more than an hour. He was st iff

at the time.
MR. LACKEY:

Were there any other

~rtsoners

in jail with him?

A

lfo, sir.

Q

Do you know whether or not he oonfeesed to the killing

of that District Judge out there?
A

No, I don't know.

GENERAL HARLEY:

I was told that he had confessed.

That was an aastssinatton, wasn't it?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

Where the Judge was shot through the door of the hotel,

through the window?
A

Yes , sir.

GEBERAL HARLEY:

I think that is all.

EXAMINED BY SENATOR WILLIFORD.
I

Q

Did you make a olose 1nvest1gat1on of it?

A

Yes;

Q

The handkerchief was rammed down his throat to the

as I usually do;

went over his body

oare~lly.

"

larnyx?

'

A

Yes, sir.

Q

Would an examination show that he choked

tben hanged himself or that he hanged himself
a:f.'t~rwards?

~.

and

h~~aelf ~n~
o~o~ed ~1ms lf
.

: A · You coUld not determine which the man would, do
. I
.
. .
hands were not tied at all.

wa~

\ :

\

,fh•\t. Hie
~\

1

i~~\

'·,
~,,

Q

O:f course a good physician oan tell?

A·

/\
They could by a post mortum, yes, sir. The way the\'1oop

\)"
(

put on I presume he did not put the tongue in any of tbe holes

291. State
I Library and Archives Commission
Texas

\

 at all; it was left so it would slip, put around one of the bars
and brought back around eo 1t would fasten on the inside. I presume, possibly. he held himself by a tight position upon the
bars of his oell until where his feet would not touoh the ground
f+

by possibly eight or ten 1nches.

CHAIRliAM BLEDSOE:

What was the height o.f the oell wall?

A

I presume about eight feet.

Q

How high was this tied into the wall, or from the ceiling

of the oell?

A

He was a man possibly hardly six feet high, five feet

ten or eleven, maybe six; I presume be was maybe a foot from the
oeling.
Q

How long was the strap from where it was tied to where

it was tied ·around his neok?

A

Pretty olose up.

Q

That is indefinite.

A

The

~elt ~or

an ordinary man would be thirty-three or

four inches, and suff icient to go around an ordinary man's neck
would be fourteen or fifteen inches of it.

I

Q

How much in the tie?

A

I reckon three

Q

How far were his feet from the floor?

A

I think seven or eight 1nohes.

Q

You are positive his feet were entirely off of the floor?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

Were his legs drawn up and contracted?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

If they bad been straighted out would they have reaohed

or four inohes. maybe.

to the floor?

29''

'

\

A

I think not.

Q

Did you make an effort to ascertain?

A

Yes, but not by straightening them out because it was

/ almost impossible.

'•

~

I don't think his feet would touch the floor,

Texas State
Library
don't
thinkand
his Archives
feet were Commission
touching the floor,

not even his toes.

 Q
side?

Th•t was an ordinary cell, made with cross bars to the

A

Yes, sir.

Q

Was he near the corner or near the center of one of

those aides?

..

A

Near the center.

Q

Wh~t

A

r presume about half an inoh.

•

I am not speaking about the Width?

is the thiokneea of

~hose

bars?

A

I understand;

about half an inch.

Q

How far are they apart?

A

Best I remember something like two inches.

Q

And you think now that a man five feet, ten or eleven

inches in height,- of what approximate weight?
A

One hunddred and sixty, sonething like that.

Q

What ap'Pl:"Oximate age'?

A

About forty or forty-five years old; middle aged man.

Q

Of that age and weight aould hold himself up on the aide
\

of the oe11, constructed as that one one, with a bandana handker-

chief already tucked down into hie 1ar\ijx and have tied that
belt around the side

o~

that cell

or one of thos b9 re of that

\'

cell, as that one wae tied?

I

J

A

Yes, sir, I think it is possible.

Q

You think it was a clear ease of suicide?

A

Yes, s1r.

Q

You don't think he had any help?

A

No, sir.

MR. LA.OKEY:

Do you know of any mieoonduqt of the Hangers at

Sweetwater?
A

No, slr.

MR. LACKEY:

As :tar as you know they oonduc'ted themselves 1n

a proper manner?
A

Yes, air.

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 GENERAL HARLEY:

·of the

la~

Hae there been any objection on the part

abiding citizens out there to the Rangers being

there, Doctor?
the law-abiding oitizens,--

A

Well~

Q

Yes?

A

Of course, they are

to be.

of them have

law-abiding,--som~

I have heard some talk, not with the best class of

oit1.zensh1p. however.
GENERAL HARLEY:

! think that 1e all •
•

EXAMINED BY CHAIRMAN· :BLEDSOE.

On the point of citizenship, how would you class Warren
:Beall?

A

First class, all right.

Q

How

A

I don't like to olassify people.

Q

How is Louis Dowthit?

A

Goon.

Q

How ls Bryan, the Just1oe of the

A

All right.

Q

How is your present ·sheriff?

A

All right.

Q

Did you ever hear any oriticism of the'

would you olaae Henry Beall?

.

;

Peace~

~anger

force

in that ootmty from either of those n;en?.

A

No, sir.

Q

Who . have you heard it from?

A

I don't remember of having heard 1 t def1n.1 tely • .It' is

"
I

more street talk than anything else.
Q

it came
A

I

You satd that aritio1sm of it had
fr~m

come,~ inti~~ted

I

those who had to be made l aw-abiding.

My. first recollection of the matter, the F.L.P.A~.
•

I

...

when they were first uprooted there, and that osused s gqod
'

deal of excitement emong them and a good deal of talk.

Q

Thet

~as.

long prior to the Bostick trouble, and the

Texas
294State Library and Archives Commission

,

~

 Boet6ok trouble and assassination of Judge Higgins had no conneotion with the F. L. P. A.?
A"

No. sir.

Q

The criticism of the Ranger foroe and the arrest and

supposed,- we will say the death of

Bo~tiok

in that jail had no

connection on earth with the F. L. P. A. trouble did it?
A

Except possibly from a political standpoint;

a matter

of politics, in my o~inion, is ~here the whole thing binges.
Q

Don't you know the whole thing between Cullen Higgins

and Bostick nas about Cullen Higgins had prosecuted Bostiok's and
another boy there who at this time is charged with mttrder for
murdering this other boy's father?

A

I have been told so.

Q

And there was absolutely no politics in that, was there?

A

I don't mean politics in that respect.

It was politics

in one favoring the Hangers and others against the Rangers for
having committed--- .
Q

'~

As far as the term po11tios 1e oonoerned, there was

·~

absolute1y no lo.cal po11 tics mixed up in that trouble?

A

The aocuaations I have been told made on the Rangers

were the result of pol1t1oal conditions, 1n my opinion.

Q

'

This assassination of Cullen Higgins never occurred in

a hundred miles of Sweetwater?
A

No, sir.

Q

He never had lived at SWeetwater?

A

lfo, sir.

Q

Bostick never bad lived there?

Q

It had absolutely no oonneot1on with local cond1t1on

A. No, sir.

existing in Nolan County, did it?
A

No, I think not.
EXAMINED BY GENERAL HARLEY.

They did not charge them With mistreating this prisoner
t
29 ;1nState
jail until
after
F. L. Commission
P. A. trouble, and then they .b egan
Texas
Library
andthis
Archives

Q

\

\

\

 to make it a political issue, did they not?
A

It was a politioal. issue from the beg1nn1ng beoause

there was one faction seemed to have beenS1J;>porated by the
element who before they were known to mlong to this society
were friends person.ally and by relat1onsh1p as well, and

o~

course that began the dissention and 1t was continued throughout
the year and is existing yet, and there is where the accusation
oame that possibly the Rangers had hung this man and then it was
heralied as auoh by one man.

MR. FORD:
Q

Yott did you hear

that the Rangers had some oonneot1on

with the death of Bostick within twenty-four hours after it occurred?
A

No, sir.

Q

Don't you know it was a matter of street talk?

A

Not that soon after; possibly in three or four days.

Q

Don't you know it was a matter investigated at the in-

quest at which you were a witness?
A

Not at the time. I only helped hold the inquest. I ·a on't

know anything about it for I was very busy and in and out a great
deal of the time.
Q

\

You and Tom Barnes are pretty good friends?

\
\
\

A

Yes, sir.

Q

He is a pretty good a1 tizen?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

Has he always been a law-abiding man, as far as you know?

A

Yes, sir •

.Q

·~
'

I

He has been Sheriff of that County?

A

Yes; air.'

Q

Didn't you denounce the action of the Rangers in

A

I did.

Q

And told me that it was an outrage?

29{).State Library and Archives Commission
Texas

~utting

A. Yes, sir..

 /

---

Haven ' t you heard lots cf g ood citizens in that town
--as gocd men as there is in

th~ t

county, and men who believe

in a higher clans cf law and order, Etld like Judge Hamner, denounce

these Rangeru ·?
A

I felt very mortified of the fact thf; t they would put

him in j uil until after I fcund out thti.t he would connect himself

with this t3oc1.ety;

tha t lo11ered my opinion of Mr. Barnes.

Q

You personally knew several of thos·e fellows?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

Wasn't there several of those fellows pretty good men?

A

lla.d been good citizens, as far as we knew.

Q

Had either of them ever been considered criminal in that

A

lfo, sir.

~

Wasn't every one of them without excep tion turned loose

town?

without any complaint ever being filed against them or any warrant
~s

ever issued ,

far as you kn ow, for them ·? They were just released

weren't. they?
A

Yes;
'

know.
~

held,

as to whether or n ot they should have been I don't

. '

You don't know of any renson why they should have been

JoI you?

/!A

al~ays

It was

~yth~ng

or

.

my opinion they should have been. Any society

else that gets

~P

against the g overnment of the United

States /"s thnt wus should-·~on ' t you know at this time that the U.

'

'

Dul~fS t~oro ughly

s.

Grand Jury at

investigated those fellows and exonerated them

wi tftou)"'find.ing an ill.die tment against a single man?

/l f
I

Evidently they should ha.ve.

rQ,

Don 1 t

~;OU

think they did '?

I ·hope so.

Tou heard that they did, didn't you? Haven't you heard
1
/

of oth.e7· instnnc~s

Hhere those Rangers have exceeded their

J
•\
29
Texas State
Library and Archives Commission
I

i 1;~ ln 1bhe

1

town·?

a~thor-

 A

I have heard a great many things but I don't know.

Q

You have heard a good deal of complaint there, haven't

A

I have eveq where-

Q

J. H. R. Leggo is a pretty good man?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

W. M. Bright is a pretty good man, J. A. J. Bradford

J'OU?

is a pretty good citizens?
A

Yes, sir.

Q

Willis Barbee is a pretty good man?

Q

The present sheriff, Hr. Bledsoe asked you about him;-

A. Yes, sir.

all those men stand for law end order, don't they?
A

Yes, sir.

Q

They always had that

re~utation

in that town:

You have

been there a good long time?
A

Yea, s1r,

Q

How long have you been in that

A

Twenty years.

Q

You have known

~ractioally

county?

all those men you have named

ever since you have been there, haven't you?

A

Yea, sir.

Q

Haven't they always stood for law and order?

A

Yes, air.

EXAMIUED BY UR. TIDWELL.
Q

You spoke about that man having died in jail at SweetDid you examine the body?

water:
A

Yes, sir.

Q

Strip his body?

Q

Were there any abrasions on his body?

A

None except a little on the hand, just the prints of the

A. Yes, air.

belt.
Q
When a perso~ dies o1rculation
29Sv;
Texas State Library and Archives Commission

stops and a rope or

 string or belt aro1..Uld the neck will make an indenture in the
fie sh that does not respond after its removal?
A

Yes , air.

Q

Is that what you found?

A

Yes, · sir.

Q

\Vaa

that

handkerchi~f

in his throat pushed so far down

that it went into what is known as the thorax, below the larnyx?

' the strap around him and tie the strap, the loop being suffioient
I

'

'

to go over him, accounting for the distance, from the dietano~

it was tied to where it went down over his neck; and before he ~
got that far he crammed the handkerchief in hie mouth :
the only solution I oould give.
Q

What season of the year was 1t?

A

I think early in the Spring.

1

tha~ 1 ~ ·~·~

Q

Waa the weather cold enough that the body would
gradually oool in a short time?
A. Yes, sir.
Q

Do you remember about what the temperature was?

A It was along in March. I don't know what the temperature was at that time.
Q

Did you hear any testimony taken during the examining

trial?

'Gha

A Yes; there weon't very much to it. There were more at
jail than et the court house.
Q

Did the Justioe pf·th.e . Peaoe examine the body?

A

Yea, air.

Q

Was there any testimony addueed at that trial?

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

,~

\~

\'

•

\

)

 A

Yea, just

a~eiteration of what had been said in the

jail while we were examining the body.

The evidence was colleoted

and formulated by the county attorney.
Q Was it developed at that trial that he had threatened
to oommit suicide?
A

Uo, sir.

It was a matter of speoulation as to how he did come
'
to his death?
Q

A

Yes;

absolutely.

MR. LACKEY:
A

What was the date of his death?

Last Spring, 1918.

SENATOR PAGE:

You aey he baoked up to the wall?

A

Evidently.

Q

Hie back was to the wall when he was found?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

And that waa a su1oide,- all right.

MR . TIDWELL?

A

Did he have his shoes on or was he barefooted?

I think he was barefooted; almost stripped, I think.

\

(At this time, the Committee reoessed to re-oonvene
at ten o'olock A. ll., Wednesday , February 5th.)

Texas State Library and Archives Commission
L

\

 WEDNESDAY, February 5, 1919.
The Joint Co?Il!littee of the Senate and the House of Representatives appointed to investigate· the oonduot o~ the Ranger Force
and the causes and sources of complaint. reconvened at ten o ' clock,
A. M., in the Railroad Commission Hearine Room.
Presiding., Ron.

w.

w.

Senator Williford. Hon •.

and Hon.

s. c.

H. Bledsoe, Chairman ; Senator Page,

s.

M. Tidwell , Hon. Dan

MoM1111n

Lackey, present.

CHAIH~!!\N BLEDSOE :

The Comm1 ttee will come to order.

SElJ'ATOR WILLIFORD:

In view of the fact, 1n fairness to

all parties, I think the attorneys for all parties examining
the witnesses should be held strictly to the rules o~ ev1denoe
prevailing in dis~riot courts, else we will have a cumbersome
reoord and the Committee will be here a week.
THE CHAIIDLUT:· We will say this then:

We will ask that

all parties interested taJre not1oe, that in so far as ev1denoe

relattng to particular facts anct charges made is aoncerned the
rules of evidence will be followed just as closely as possible ;
'

that oounsel for either side shall finish hie examination and
then, unless soce special reason arises, he will have concluded
hts part of the examination, unless it . is for a

l~idt1mate

oross

examination after the oross- exam1nat1on of counsel for the op~o s1 te side.

In so f~r as evidence relating to general conditions

1n a certain community, it may be neoessary to rel ax, but this
reoord is getting to where it is going to be cumbersome unl ess
the rules are edhered to as adopted by thisOommittee.

M R S. VIRGINIA YEAGER,
having previously been duly sworn, testified as follolfs
before the Committee:
I

D~I R E c T

E

x ~ ·11

I N A T I 0 N

by Ur. . Canales.

State your name?

A.

lira. Virginia Yeager.

Texas State Library and Archives Commission
301

\

 .

Q

Where do you 11ve?

A

I live right at San Diego.

Q

What county?

A

Duval County.

How long have you resided in Duval County?
A
I don't know. I have made my post office in Duval
County for several years, for ~ive or six yenrs, but part of the
Q

t1me I have lived right at the edge of Duval County.
Where did you come from ba~ore you came to that part
ot the oounty?
Q

was Colorado Springs, Colo.

A

Hy home

Q

Do you remember writing me this letter.- is that the

letter?

(Witness is shown a paper.}
that is my letter.

A

Why, yes;

Q

Do you ·remember the incident you mentioned there with

regard to drunkenness and disorderly oonduct of some Rangers

stationed at or near San Diego?.
A

I told you that they oame there.

Q

Will you please relate to the Committee just what you

know about it?
A

I did not expeot to make a point of that.

I did expect

to make a point that they had been rather ugly toward me but not
at that time.

Q

We ·will get to that, please. You know ~he first charge

we have out there is with regard to the fact that the ~angers
had been drunk there and disorderly.
Rangers drunk?

A

Have you seen any of the

I think I have. He was oither drunk or something else

'/was the matter. I waa in a garage and getting some little thing
1
f1%ed on my oar and the boy who ~~a fixing it, he ·called him to
one side and put his pistol on him, here,- he touched his shirt
imt.t l 1. saw the mark when 1t was removed, and eeid, "You go get

30·~
Texas

State Library and Archives Commission

 ID1' oar and fix it or I w111 whip you" or "shoot you". I believe

he said, "like a tied dog," and then he said; "I will get your
oar." He says, "Where is 1 t?"

He says, "It is tV1enty miles out

but you must 'fix that oar." "I will do so," he said, and he

pulled the pistol down and said, I don't know what he said, but
the Ranger turned around and winked at me.

I had never seen him

before but he wae a Raneer.
Q

How do you know he was a Ranger?

A

Because this man seid he was a Rnnger and this boy

that was

~ix1ng my

MR. XlT!GHT:

oar said he was a Ranger.
Gentlemen, I don't think under the rules of

ev1denoe this is admissible.
The objeot1on was overruled by the Chairman.

A (Continued.) And he had this arm, and he was .with a man
in uniform and they were taking this uniformed man somewhere 1n
this oar and it had been fixed there and it had broken down twenty
I

miles out. and they wanted it fixed again, wnnted him to go after
I

it.
Q
A

I

How was he dressed? Had he any guns around h1m?
Yes. he had guns, and he had a gun 1n his hand and the

point of it was DA this boy's shirt. I sew it. ~e had on a white

shirt.
j

Q

What sort of hat did he have on?

I

A

He had on one of those hats they wear.

Q

Well?

A

Well,

Q

Broaa brimmed hat?

Q

You mentioned the feot thut there were two shootings

f

~

I

~

t .h ink they oall them John 13. Stetsons.

j
,itOC?k place at .san Diego.

A, Yes, sir,

From general report there will you -please

1

tell the Cornm1.ttee what you know about 1 t?
I

A

r waa 1n the house

of a neighbor 't hat had a sick ohild

heP.rd some shooting and in a few minutes a boy came to this

.

\

snd asked i'f the man who had the keys to the jai 1 'f;as in

3 Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 the house. that the Rangers were shooting people and they had
or were going to arrest them and they wanted to take---,

GE?lERAL HARLEY:

Just a minute. If we are going to adhere

to the rules of evidence?
A

Gentlemen, that is what I know about it.

GEITERitL HARLEY:

I t 1s me'rely hearsay, the statement she !s

making. If we are going to adhere to the rules of ev1denoe suggested by the Committee this morning I suggest we will beg~n now

and insist on a knowledge of the facts and not What somebod:?\\aid.
A

It is a f>act. It was brought in oourt.

\
\

CHAIRlWl BLEDSOE: Just wait, Mrs. 'tesger. My constructi,on ,

would be if it was a matter that was ooouring there right

at~~\

time of the shooting and the matter in connection with the shoot-~
ing 1t is clearly admissible.

I would like the ruling of the Com- \\,

mittee if I am wrong, but I think under the holdings of our Court
•

of Criminal Appeals recently in a number of cases,- I re~ll one
'
especially, from .Inn Angelo where a eimilar 1asue was raised.

OEMER.AL HARLEY:

I believe they first have to establish the

fact that they were Rangers and the sot was committed before she
would be enabled to state that somebody had told her these things
'

and I do not think you could establish the fact by hearsay testimony first and then prove res gestae afterwards.

THE WITlIBSS:

They were arrested.

THE CHAIRMAN:
6ontrol that.

1.m.

If the identification is not complete we will

C1'MALES: Q. Complaints were made and they were sought to

be arrested?

A

Excuse me.

LIR. KNIGHT:

Just a minute.

TRE CHAIRMAN: Just wait a minute • .i..et one talk at a time.
UR. XHIGHT:
Committee.

I didn't exaotly understand the ruling of the

Texas
Library
and Archives
30 4 State
THE
CH.AIRMAN:
The rulingCommission
of the Comm1ttee is 1f this was

8

~ ~~

 oiroumstanoe occurring and remarks made by some-person in connection with the shooting at or immediately following the shooting
and immediately preceding the arrest of those yarties or the
attempted arrest of them and the 1dent1f1cation of them as Rangers
is shown it will be adm1ss1ble.

You understand the d1ffioulty of

making all of your proof at on~ time, and I said we would control

it in the event the idnnt1f1oation was not
MR. KHIGHT:

com~lete.

I understand the rule I have in mind, that is

remarks of .bystanders at the scene of the shooting would be res
gestae but I understand this lady was et the home of a friend With
a s1ok child and somebody oame in and asked if the custodian of the

key of the bastile was there and if so they wanted it because

..

somebody was shooting up the town. '!'hat m1gh~ have been ten miles \

\
\

away or fourteen hours before.
The lady has just testified that it was im-

THE CHAIRM.Ali:

mediately following the shooting that she heard there in that immediate neighborhood.
THE WITNESS:

~his

was the boy that had been invited to the

danoe where they shot.

SENATOR WILLIFORD:

I thil?k the Chairman is oorreot, if

they oonneot it U].
A

He was seeking the jailer who had the keys. This was

the boy who had been invited to a dance, as I understood it.
THE CHAIRMAN:

non't go into any matters further than that

that you don ' t know of personally.
A

He told me that.

THE CHA!Ri.fAN:

MR. CANALES:

We don't want what he told you.
Q When was that?

A

I don't know.

Q

What month?

A

I don ' t know. It was thts Winter; it was before Christ-

Q

Then it was during the month of December?

305 State Library and Archives Commission
Texas

 ~

I

A

I cannot say that.

It is on record.

Q

And that was one time; have you heard of any other time,
of some oocurrance taking place in oan Diego?

A

I heard - is hearing it - tne man that had been run and shot
at told me -

Q

No; 1 want t o find out whether you heard the shots2

I heard the s~ots and the man w~ o was shot at told me that
they were sho >ting at him.
Q with regard to the conduct of these Hangers~oward you
personally, with regard to the conduct of tne Hangers toward
you·personally, as to any misconduct or any mistreatment,
please it to t he Committee now.
Mr. Knight: l don•t lmow - we are thoroughly in accord
with the Committee's idea of abreviatin~ this record and
this brings up the question of tne source of the prolixity there i s no specific allegation of any discourtesy shown
on the part of the lady by a member of this force.
THE CHAI.HMAN: ~hey have general charges of lawlessness
a 1d lawless conduct on the part of the Hangers toward the
citizen-ship in a number of those to·"lls. I do no t know
whether names are mentioned specifically or not.
MH KNIGHT: It is not in this instance. · ~be incident mentioned
is the sh8ting~of a town on the 16th day of November 1918.
THE CHAIRMAN: But there is tne date showing they are guilty of
misconduct MR. KNIGHT: Dlt those are generalities. I dont know how far
the Committee contemplates indulging counsel in that vaporous
realm. l dont want to nag the Committee or make objections
from the standpoint of the law or predeliction of the court.
SF.NATOH PAGE: My opinion is if any outrage toward a citizen of
Texas, especially a lady, can be snown tnis Committee ought to
hear it, we ought to relax the rules to that extent. I move
Texas State Library and Archives Commission
306 that tne Committee relax the rules and hear the evidence.
!

 305.

llR. KNIGHT:

I agree with you on that, in

thi ~

particular

case that is all right.
THE WITNESS:

Well what must I do?

THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead and answer the que.tion that was
propounded to you by Mr. Canales.
A

I dont remember ito
MR. Canales:

I asked you to go ahead now and tell the conduct,

what, if any conduct toward you personally, or any mistreatment
of any Ranger to you bas taken place?

·\

!

There have been the several occasions -

Q

Go ahead and tell who as far as oo.u know has made tnat misconduct

or that mistreatment.

A

nP.11 there was a dispute about some of my water; the man that

_ leased it and had not paid me and 1 closed the gates and it was
a civil case and 1 thought they had no business there, ·but the
Ra:o.gers cazne into my home and I was alone, and they came with t his
man who was a Sheriff of another county, and tney were there and
frightened me and one of them came and told me that I would be -he said be wa s a Ranger -- that I would be always mistreated if I

did not do what this man said for me to do, that was to give him

my water -- t "e only bit of water tor about forty miles around, I
was to give him that or just P.ive it up.
'2

A

What was that man's name?
It bas been in court.

Q

W
hat is ·his name?

A

Oscar l hompson, tne sheriff of .l:febbronville • .And tne Rangers
11

were in t ne house, we were having --

Q

what was the tianger's name?

A tlis name that stood in t he door was Pat Oleghead or Cleghorn,
or something like that.
GENERAL HARLEY: Craighead is t ne present
County.
MR. OANALBS:

~eriff

of that

lie ~as a ~angrr at that time.
30?Texas State Library and Archives Commission
A And this other man said, it is your water, it fell on your

 land but I am going to have it and it is your or my -- (witness
illustrated her answer by drawing her index finger across her
throat) -- that WffS, and the Hanger did not offer any protect~o~
for me or anything, but I reported it to the Governot and the
Governor · sent Captain ·Fox and some two others whom I did not know
to my house.
Q Captain who?
A

Fox• he was a Haneer.

Q

Now as regard to any other mistreatment of you by any member

of t ne present Hanger force?
A I believe that theee are some.of those still in the Ranger
force, I see them still with gnns on tnem, though I dont know.
Q

Do you know their names?

A

I have neTer inquired tneir names.

Q

Do you know Captain Sanders?

A

I know him.

Q

Has· he done anything to you?

.l

Yes he has done something to me •
G9"" ahead and tell the Committee what he has done.

Q

!
Q

J.

It is a long story.
Just talk to the Committee and not to mo.
I thought he was asking me.
OHA.IHJIAB: He is asking the questions and ue are hearing the

evidence •
.l

RXeuse me.
THE CH!lro.IAB:

!

That ia all right go ahead and we will hear it.

Well they had a, . I thought they were - well if you will just

ask me a question I can tell more about it.
UR. O.ANALES: Q I say do you know Oa.ptain sanders, and if you
do what has he done to you?
A He has told me that he had a boy arrested.

I had been asked

by the young man's mother, he is not a boy, but he is a young man,
add he asked me as I passed his place, he was working on the
county roads, to go with bis mother in the morning and ask the
30'~

Board, the local board, what they would do with him -- he had been
Texas
State Library
anditArchives
Commission
examined
Friday and
was ::>unday
afternoon and he wanted to know

 ::J07

what they were going to do with him, if he was to be sent immediately
or if be was to be permitted to finish his work o; this road, it
was contract work. ahd she did not speak English, and their ~anches
were near mine., and the local boards did not give them very m.Uch
encoflragement about answC'iing quest ions and would I ask, and I did
go to the local board and I asked Oo~rt

no I did not -

I went to the

house and I asked the sheriff, Mr. Tobin if he could tell

me and he sai.d yes, they are looking for him now, the Rangers are
out after him~, go to him and tell him - - if you use your car and tell him that to go on to lcCaskey and take the train there
and he can still get into the camp before the others get there,

that they had gone this other way at 3:00 o'clock that morning, and
he had not been notifi ed so

h~

did not know it, is what he told

me.
He said go - . CH.AIRMAN: Bring it down to your connection with Captain
Sande re •
.l That

ss

what I wanted to do; that has connection with Captain

Sanders.
THE CHAIBM.All: Bo.t you are relating so much.

Tell me when I am wrong.
THE OH.AIRMAN: Tell your conversations, if any, with Captain
Sanders.
! Well I went back, went to his mother, she did not have her
oar and we went in mine to find him and when we got there I
told him what this man said. This Captain Sanders and his men
came out of the brush close to the house ...... he came out of the
brush with his men and tney came to this house and they talked -his men, they all came and I told Captain sanders that the Ju.dge
had said to me, who was on the local board, I saw him, and what he
had said to me to tell this boy to come back into town, that they
were not in their rights to arrest him, beo~use he had only -be still had seven days-- and Captain Sanders said All right,
and said, just take him;.on, just go on ahead, and he said I dont
30(JTexas
know State
what Captain
saia toCommission
me but it was something that
Library Sanders
and Archives
!

Excuse me.

 308

me.de me think that he wanted us to hurry.

I thought he said

something about a train or something, at any rate my son drives
for me, he drives very fast, faster than ·I wish to go, b~t I
will tell you it is a Ford and does not go so very fast and they
were along in ·their Ford -- it was a Ford at that thne -- and
they followed us. Captain Banders was polite to me then and
these two men that he had with him, or three men that he had
with him were speaking Spanish to this young man, and 1 said
"he speak English as well as you do," because they were -- his
mother and sister and all the family were there too -- so he got
in the car with me, be was sitting by my son~ and I was sitting
by bis mother in the baoj and Captain ~anders or S811Ilders, I neTer

knew which, said go on and we went on and we came, I dont know
bow far, but the road was being made, and it was impossible to get
out of that road, there was no get out of it and there was no way
to get out· of th Pt road because you bad to stay in it, with an
autanobile you could not get out, so we went on as far as we could

.

and there was one place at a bridge where they could turn around
before us and 1 think it was four or five miles from that place

they came in front of us very quickly and two got out and they
came to our car and they jumped out ahd they ran to my car and they
. .
.
had two pistols, like this (illustrating) to me and they said,
1

"WelWill not take any chances on any woman," and they used language

my son

that was most humilia ting to me.
'
TBE
CHAIBMAN: Go ahead now, no matter how much you dislike

before

·
1

1

(:of o so, use the langa.age.
4Y Well it was like damns and

·
things like that, so I said,
~t do you mean, '"'what is this for anyway?" and they had, two of
;;

~

/
('
/

/.

,

them, two most dreadful looking m~, they were young men though,

they did ndt open the door of the car but they took his wrists
and je~ked him over on bis head, and Captain tlanders said, "I will
take charge of him,

rt

and I said "What is this for anyWfJ3, what

are you doing this for?tt

3l t

And he diet not, he said you are driTing

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

too fast, and I said "Not faster than you, you told me to drive

 309

fast," and one of those others said "We are not going to ta)ce
eny chances with you.D So we went on, then l went on to
8e.n Diego, and they took this boy and put him in their

~ar

and

we went on and when we got to San Diego I told the Judge what
he had said, and be said, "The Hangers are not in their rights
to do it."
Q

You need not tell what the Judge said.

A But he was a member of the local board.
Q

That doesn't make any difference.

J.- .All right.
there?

When the .Hangers did cane in Ha~ers

Q

Yes, anything that the

A

Well I said to him, l have to

is that not right

said or did?
say

this to you, that I

said to the Judge, I said to him, he was the local board, I said
"Yott told me to tell the Hllngers what you told me"right?
Q

is that not

If they were present.

A Yes, they were present. "Tell them what you told me."
He says, "Well I told you and I told them that it was not right bDt
t)eJ can do as they please,• and I said "It is spite." and Sanders

said, "We are used to women's cutting up and we aint afraid of.
her," and I said to him, "Will you let me speak to a doctor?"
and he said, "We dont take orders from nobody lut Doctor Wilson."
and that was not the President, bhat was a member of the local
bo9rd who was using these Rangers for personal spite against me,
and he told me that be was going to run all the Mexicans out of
I
·tbait Country and they were going ,so fast te could not get our
'~ /

crops gathered.
Q That is all.

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 31.0.

IXAUINE BY MR. KNIGHT:

Q
~

Q. Mrs Yeager, you say that Mr. Oscar 11hompson desired to
consume some of your water and the Rengers were with him~

A It
fl

was the cattle that wanted the water.

I understand; the .Hangers were with him, is that correct?
Yes, that is correct.

A

Well that is fine. Now Oscar ~hompson was the local
authority there was he not?
Q

A

No iir.
\Vas he Sheriff?
No sit.
What was he?

Q

:A
Q

A He was Sheriff of ttebbronville, Jim Hogg County, or Jim ·
8ometning County.

He

Q

wa~

a loeal authority?

A

No he was just a Sheriff in his own county and he was not
in his own county.

Q I thought you said you were not advised about those th_ings?
We have a better understanding.
1 You m~y be sure . that I am advised.

Q. Well was the Sheriff of an adjoining county?
A

Yes but not in that County, he was not in his own county
an4~ a Hanger has no business in a civil case.
Q He had a ranch in your county?
I
•
' I•

J

H~ di~ not.

He had leased my land and another man's -Did he have a lease with you and sub-let it to some other
man?

A Yes -- no. He l eased with me entirely and leased it
to another man as if it were his own.

Q tte only point I caee for is that .Mr. Oscar Thompson lived
in that Oounty or some adjo ining county, be was a well known
individual
there
and had
local habitat
didn•t he?
Texas
State
Library
andaArchives
Commission

31 ''

 3.1.l..

A

Yes 1 guess so; I didn't know him very well, but that

doesn't make him a sheriff of the other county.
Q I understand that. The nanger Force co-operated with

I

the sheriffs in those Counties down there?
A They are not permitted to go into other counties with

,.,f
/

two different sheriffs.
Q • I really am not advised, I want argu.e with you.
A

I will tell you.

Q
A

Is that a statute or is that the ru.les there?
They are not permitted to go into other cou1tties without
I

t•

they go -- with the sheriff of that county.
Q I am seeking informationa Is that a statute or. is that
the rules of the business?
A 'l'he 11engers have no roles, they have no law. ~hey are the
law unto themselves, so one of tnem tQld me, and that certainly
must be tru.e from the way they aot.
ilhey are under the law of
no country nor military law either, and tney are certainly not
under the civil law.
1 As I understand you, Mr. Oscar ~hompson did the talking
on that occasion except the ..11B11ger said he probably ought to have
a little water, is that what the ~anger said on tha t occasion?

J. 'l'e11 me again what you said?
~
It was Mr. 'fhompson's cattle wasn•t it?
A

No sir.

Q

Is ne the man that wanted the water?

A

Yes sir •

Q

Vid he have the cattle in his custody?

J.

No
. sh·.

Q

Who di d?
A man named Timberlake or something else, I have forgotten.

A

1- where were they on this occasion?
A

One of. them was sitting on the couch and the other was

awayState
some Library
where else.
my parlor?
Texas
and in
Archives
Commission
~

 A

And Oscar Thompson and two gentlemen you thought were

Rangers? You didn't know they were Rangers?
A

Yes, sir.

Q

Wha~

A·

Pat Cra ighead was one of them. I didn't bother about

were their names?

the rest.
Q

What was his name, Pat What?

A

Craighead.

Q

Is he on the foroe now?

A

I think so. He still wears a gun.

Q

Does every man on the border who wears a gun belonr to

the Ranger force?
They should be. They are violating the law if they are

A

not. If they are an

of~icer

•

out of their county.

Q

Did you testify that Mr. ~Rt Craighead 1s still on the

A

Mey I ask you a question?

foroe?
I

MR. TIDWEtL:

I think she has answered the question.

THE CHAIID!AN: I think the lady has stated that in her judgment or her best information he was still on the force.
/'

!~. ·DCIGHT:

,I

All right.

Your judgment regarding other

•

me•bers of the foroe to whom you have referred is of the same
quali~y

as your

j~dgment

regarding Mr. Cra1ghead's being e Ranger

st11_}. 1s it?

/

A

Oh, no. If you mean do I think there are no gentlemen

--there &re some gentlemen. Mr. Newman was a gentleman, and

'Q

l

A\,
puat
I

1

1

31

1

I

All'

When did this all hanpen?

I don ' t know. They d1dn' t ask me when 1t happened. They

~~k~a

/;

~ight.

Ur.---

me

di~

it happen. Shall I answer the question?

T~ CHAIRllAN:
\

•

•

Yes, answer any question that he asks.

Ql ·.

When did it happen?

A\·

I~

I

:

happened in July.--if I tell you I will be tell1.ng

what \'~ don't know. I don't remember except that it was in
I' you
~,
Texas
State
Library
and Archives Commission

.
I

,

'

 July.
Q

It was not last July?

A

?To, it wasn t last Jul y, nor the July before that nor

1

the July before that .
Q

Can you tell me whether it was July preceding?

A

No, it waa not , nor the July preceding nor the Jul y

preceding.
Q

It was not? ·

A

!t was the July "Preceding. That would make it about

four years.
Q

About four years?

A

Probably,- I am not sure. I am not saying that positive-

ly. It 1s on record.and you oan

~ind

it.

Q

The Governor you wrote to was Governor &erguson?

A

The f1rst Governor I wrote to was probably Governor

~lergueon-- Governor

Culqui tt -probably.

Q

And the next one was Governor Ferguson?

A

Yes, you are right, and the last time I wrote to the

State I did not write to the Governor. I wrote to the Adjutant
General.
I

the

Q

When was that, Mrs. Yeager?

A

The last time I wrote to the Adjutant General was when

~angers

arrested me on the road and it was in Vctober, I

•

think, last year.
Q

You wrote then to the present administration regarding

I

I

I

that?
\A

I did. I don't know. No, I didn ' t. The present adm1n1e-

I

tratio:h has just come 1n.
/
'
was
,

/" (Q

That was the one before.

But in October, last year,- the present administration

.
in?

Oh, no, it wasn' t. We have had an election since that

A

time.

31:;Texas State Library and Archives Commission
I'

 Q

Wasn ' t Governor Hobby.--

A

Yes, Governor Hobby was--

Q And General Harley was Adjutant General too, was he

not?
A

I don ' t know.

Q

Did you get any reply to that lettter?

A

I did.

Q

Have you it?

A

Govenor' Robby's repl tea have always been very oourt-

Q

The Adjutant General ' s reply? .

A

His reply was courteous to me.

eous.

That they would inves-

t1gate it.
What are the cbndit1ons down there with reference

Q

. to lawlessness and Tioletion of the statutes relating to the law
of slaokers and things?

A

Do you want me to answer that?

THE CHAIRMAN: As far as you know.
It is just like this:

A

The Kexioans left that aountry

by thousands, not because they _were afraid to go to war. they

wanted to but they were afraid of the Rangers; that is the truth.
1

Q

Were they e fraid of anything else?

A

They were not afraid of anything else.

Q

Exactly. There is a great army of refugees just aoross

the river. there ~e~ anxious to get baok, is there not?
•

r

4
/ J

I ..
J

I

A

How do I know?

Q

You seem to be pretty well posted.

'

,..

~HE

'

CHAIRMAN:

Only answer those questions that you know.

A1 · How could ! ·answer that without- -'

TatE
)

A

1

.

CHAIRMAN:

If you don't know 'tell him you don ' t know.

What does he mean, anyway?

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 THE CHAIRMAN: If he asks you matters that you do not have
persona1 knowledge of just tell him so.
A
I know;

Thank you. I don't know.

Let me tell you one thing

I know some boys who went into Mexico and wanted to come

baok and I have written to the Department of. Justice because
their slater asked me to; could they oome baak and under what
oonditione?
MR. KNIGHT:

Slsokers, wero they?

A

I don't know whether they were slackers or not.

Q

What is your best opinion about it?

A

I have none.

Q

You interoeded without knowing the quality or gravity

of' the ei'i'ense?

A

I told the

De~artment

of' Juatiae whet their sister told

me about the boys. She did not write English and I did.
Q

Ia it not a fact, you say that prectioally all the

Mexicans went across?
A

No, I did not say that. I said many went.

Q

What percentage of' them? What do you mean by many? Give

the 6ommittee an idea again. I got the idea that the Rangers ran
practically all of them out. Tell the Committee how many you
think are away from down there?
. A

Some one told me that twenty thousand left the border

country but that is all I know about it and I don't think hearsay is admissible.

31~/

I

Q

How many of them were you acquainted with?

A

I don't know.

Q

A great many of them were wealthy, were they not?

A

They w9re not.

Q

Are you sure of' that?

Q

I will ask you to state, if you in any way concornea or

A. Yes, sir.

•

, interested yourself in.aiding, abetting or assisting any

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

o~

those

 He%1oans slackers down there?

A

Now what does he mean?

Am I · to tell him that I am a

slaoker , that I have been trying to be a slacker or what?

I was

an associate member of the looal advisory board and I helped to
make out the questionnaires and r tried to get those boys to go
and told them they would enjoy. it, that the army was not like t he
Rangers, that they wo11ld be better men for going, and I sent many
willingly who did not really care very much about going, for they

had seen their friends arrested and run off.
I will ask you 1f you have assisted, aiden or abetted

Q

any slaoker to avoid the law and get across the Rio Grande?

A

Certainly not.

Q

Knowingly?

Q

I will ask you to state if this young man you spoke of

!. Certainly not. ·

that was in the car with yon the day Captain ~anders stopped you
on the highway, if he was . not a deserter?

A · Ho was not a deserter.

He

was' a volunte,r.. He volun-

te.rred·.- a company of S'f'aniah speaking Hmorioan young men, to
General Pershing, and 1t was

'oi

records

ao~epted,

as you will find on the

the War Department, and just after that at the aama

time that Colonel Roosevelt was raisine a company this happened,

,.

and soon after that, those volunteers

~ere

not accepted any

I

more ,end the boards, the boards passed on it.

.,,.

Q

You tell the Committee now that the young man waa not

~

being sought by the exemption board and the authorities for
being a deserter or failing to report tor enlistment st the

/
/.
l

I

time

l

' A

·1

A,,

I
I

was ordered?

h~

What was he going down there for?
I

I

I

I

Re was not.

Q

I

I

I

.

A

Going where?

Q

t'~at

did you take him to the board · for?

A
Did I take him to the border?
3 L~ \ /
Texas State Library and Archives Commission
,.

'

 Q

the

Didn ' t you say you went down to adk the board what

~angers

had a right to do?

T.dE CHAIRilAN :

I think you misunderstood, Judge Knight.

He said what was he being taken to the board

A

I thought he said the border.

MR. KNIGHT:
A

for?

No, no,- the board?

It wee not because he was a deserter; it was not

beoauae he was evading anything, because he had not received any
card. He was examined on Friday and this was i.:onday morning. .lie
had not reoeived anything.

I was simply taking him because a

member of the board told me to bring him there.

Q

What was the name of the member of that board, lladam?

A

The member of the board who told me that had no

authority on the board.

The member's name was Judge Clarkson,

but the Rangers told me that they did not take orders fro~ him
at all or from anybody exoe~t Wilson, - I mean Dr. Wilson.
Q

Do you know Judge ~.fo Campbell?

A

Judge UoC8'1J>bell is a man from Alioe, Texas, and he

was a lawyer and this family that this young man was in, and !
went on to Alice to take this boy's mother, following the Rangers to ask Judge HcCampbell to do what he could for him. The
mother believed he would be killed, and I met Judge YoCampbell
then. I don't say I know Judge lloCampbell now, I don ' t think I
would know him but ! know who he ie reputation but I am not sure
I

~ould

Q

recognize him.
Did you assist a young man in California that was

evading the oonsoription?
A

I did not.

How did I asa!et him?

s young man in California.

Yea, I did assist

I bed a lP.tter from the local board

from t his same Judge Clarkson. who wsa my attorney, and he aaid
to ~e . "If you see this young man tell him to come back on the

State" Library
andonly
Archives
Commission
319Texas
f irst-that was
three days
more,- so

I went r.1 th this

 young man, I hadn't seen h1m, that was the notice he got, I hadn't
seen hiM but I aacidentally saw him. He came to the same town
I was to meet some of his friends and I accidentally saw him

and told him about this. He said "I must go a'ti once."
"I hava no tim0 to

He says,

I oannot got there because it takes so maztv

~o.

I says, 1'Yes, we wi 11 go to the local board and I w1 ll

doys,"

identify you there. I will id ontfflr you at the local board and
l

.

.

the local board there sent him on to California.

They said, "I

wieh I had your chance, young man, as a slacker, I wish there
were more men like you tbet have the patriotism

y~u

arc showing."

I says, "I·f you think that give him a letter like that and let

him take it. because he is very much concerned."

He said ''All

right, we will do so,'' and they did write him a letter of recom-

mondat1on to hia boa rd saying that he was doing all that he aould
to get there, and then this young man said,
listen:

He

m~ys,

aided him. now

"I aan't wait to go baok to where I am working

to get any money and it I
late."

--T

tclegra~h

home for it it will be too

lie says, "Will you lend me the money to go on?"

I says,

"!will lend you the money," and I did lend him :fifty· dollars

to come

horn~

on, ane he came homo.

I did aid him.

Q. You went to California yourself?
A

I dld, and I hf!ve been to Cali:fornia many times.

Q

You went there with him to assist him?

A

I did not.

Q

Ma'am?

Q

Were you in California when this young man arrived•?

A

Is that nart of this prooeedine?

THJ: CH.A!ID.tl\N:

I

~ent

there to Mr. Yeager.

A. I went to my husb!\nd.

Yee;

go ahe ad. Answer the question.

A

Yes. I was there.

Q

Where was it you saw him when he told you he would have

to get there in three days?
A

At Venice, Cal.

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 Q,

Ke

~ot

triere with:f n tl\e t in1e limit did l\e?

A I don't know.
~

At all events you were bere

w~en

he arrived?

A No I was not•
Q, ! un<lex-etood

~ rou

cqA!RMAN:

T~E

A He is rnietakeh

r wan not.
Q. J

to. say...

~imself

~asin

!

Sli.e

for

l\ae answered tiiat question.

me

says wao

r

there when

~e

arrived,

California when he arrived in Tdxas.

mean when he arrjved in Cali fomia?

A Yee , ! was in California.
Q. You were jn California when l\e arrived there?
A I 't1as.

Q Your

meetin~

with l\im was in Texael

A Yes sir.

Q. And your assistance jn ~iv1n~ him money was in Texas?

A Mo I d j d not say that.
Q

Where did you

firs~

hear that he li.ad to

~o

to California then, !

:misunderstood you. ,. don't 'know whetli.er the Comm1 ttee d:td or not.
! think you a.re

Tr.t.E 0!-!A!R!lAN:

of the road and ohe from the other.

ness sl-te saVI him in Cali fo:t"nia and

work!~

from one end

As l understand the wit~ave

"rim koney

to come to

Texas , is that correct?
A Ch No, t""tat is not

oorreot.

lent him t'i.e money.

r did not

~3ve

l!e paid it bacl! to me

San Die~o and tltrowsh the Bank at San nje~o
YR. t"UGHT:

him the

tm»o~l-t

mone~.

!

the bank at

Cali?ornia.

I had the impression tltey met 1 n Texas and

went there ani came baok to Texae.
TltE C'R'.A!RUAN:

Wl'\ere

did you advance tl\e money?

A !n Cal 1 fornia.
Q,

Was h.e in California when l\e was

A vn-tat do you mean
~ !

eou~l\t

by tli.e »cemption board?

sou~ht?

eay where was l\e before he went to California,.did you assist

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

321

l\im in ~etti~ from Texas to California, is what I want to know?

 A

r

d:id

not .

Q. You aseited 1'\jm to

~et

f'rom California back riere only?

A I loaned him the money to come back. !e

t~~t

ass1stanoe?

Q, And tlia t \fas. all tl\at you ltad to do rtS tlt it .

!s that t1'te

same young man that was in your oar wh.en r..a.pt. Sande n
ltel d you up?
s~r•

A Yee
Q,

Ris name is

~elipe o.-~rc'a •

jsn•t it?

A Yes sir.
Q,

~en

was it you and he were

i fornie.-how

lo~

n California-you meCl nim in Cal-

was 1t between the time of

Cal:t fo rnia and tl-te tjme you

A ! don't know. 1t

.j

mj~~t

t~e meetin~

in

were held up by Capt. sanders?

'have been six weeks or

mi~ht

have

been three weeks, ! don't know.
~Now

Mr.

Yea~er

you don't know

w~ether j t ~as

four weeks f:rom the t;.me you saw him 'n Cal

tltree week e or

1forn~a.

tliqttliis

occurred down ther4?
A ! don't 'know.

! came back on business and vra.s much. trou-

bled and I don't remeber the date.
Q.

rr110

A

~e

t

left caltfornia f'r:ist . you or k,elipe Garcja?

left fjrst, but T cannot

"13 s .

ae~ t~at

this

~as

any

bear5n~

on

He ca.me on t1'le t ra:i n and I oame en an Automobile wi tlt

. my fanrlly.
~ Leavin~

A

there about the sane time1

No . net leavi ngi; tliere t"fle aalft time.
mont~

Q Then

r staid at least' another

there, ! th,nk•.
~ow lon~

were you

oomin~ throu~h ~n

an automobile?

A :t don't 'know.
~ T~en

it was much more than three or four weeks when you saw

hjm here after· leavin~ Californ8a?

Ar

don't know.

!

don't remember

t~e

exact hour and the exact

days•

TexasQ. State
Library and Archives Commission
32''
You said t\ie Ra.n~ers ran all the youn~ 'Mex1 cans

into 1.'i'e.xico?

 A Djd

eay

T

J was :Jn error if

t~at?

Tlley run tl-le

J'(>un~

r

did.

r sa.i d

l~exi cans.

and the old 'n Ute fu.miliee,

Q. Tliey p ractj oally run them all in?

A No,
~

r rnean to say,

don't mean to say.

~

W~ole

families.

~

D10 tney do that prior to the establishment of t"e Exemption
:Boards I' and tlle extension of t 1tt e oo n.eor'p t l ind.t?

A To t"e ei-tame of t "I e Sta 1.e, ! vd 11 say t 1ia t
~·

Oerma.n

intrS~ue

t'l-iat t"tey were

hop1n~

:r

t 1 '1 '.ink :it vtas

&o keep up &tri fe be-

tween t 1-te United States and 'Me.x:J.oo, 11.opi n~ to start t1tte war
r.laht there.
Q. Vtlio d.o you t'liink was :in tlie German

!ntri~ue--The Ran ~erf'•t

A ! do.
~

You are posJtjve of that are you?

A ! am not.
Q, Do you lcnow anytl-ti~ a.bout

A Yee

:r

\~

do.

ct When d]d you first
A Well the f:f rst. !
tellin~

J'"e x1co

and he wae
and

tne plans or the plots of' San Di e~q?

h.O\f

"tear of t 11at and

11~rd

w'iat do you know about it?

of 1 t, T 1-tea.rd D11. i:;a 1iott a. man from

'1.ow it could be done a no h o1v 1t Y1ould be done

point)~

i t out on tl-\e Nape,

~ow

it could be done

it would be done.

Q, 1A"1 o wac t lia t '?

A Dr. Elliott from san Di e~o. but he was s. man f rom

he is a

He

Dji~o.

2 t'1jnk he js a Tirjtjon eubjeot and l

thorou~ruy

loyal A:merjcan, ! mean loyal to the

's still in San
tn~nk

!! ex:ieo.

Al 11 ea.
~

Are you aware that th.ere was a well arranqed conspiracy and
plot on the part of a qreat many Vexioa.ns and some Americans

who inauqurate a massacre of all AruJlo-Saxons both, all tl-te
men excet>t the old men. t'1 e women and t'1e cltildrerl and all

men above the 8'te of 16 years, to be started in the Sprinq at
2 o•.01oclc in t"te

mornjn~

at a certain da!i e in the

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

'""')'~
J.~

191541

Sprini~

of

 A No S1r.
~

never hear of tnat?

D1d you

A Yes 1 1'\ €8 rd of 1 t •

Q. Then tell t1ie C0 mmi ttee
A Well San

n; ew;o

~eta

you ltave heard of it •

t 1ll:~t

nervous, i r this i a wlnt you are taJ. ldnq

about, they ,,ave had some k1l11nP,S there. some Americana ltave
'killed t.1'\e :Mex1.co..ns and t'hey ''oul d
~

f somebody slams a
~. s

t'iere
thj~o

~ate

upriein~

an1t:ex1can

~et

up and

~o

to Alice and say

and t"lj s waa one of ttioee Nervous

th~ou~lt

t'l-\a.t spread all

R.=\.~ers-t'l"\a t

they

nervous ocaasi ona.lly and

~et

i e tl-te par;t the

the border.

Ran~ers

!t is not on the

play-it is proteoted d own

on t"ie borcter.
Q, YO\lr attitude was to tr.eat i t l)i:r,'fttly?

A There

\"ISS, noth.in~

to i t.

! had no men

worki~

for ma but

Jrexjoane and I ltad to look: to them for proteot:ion and they

were all loyal .
know

Q, Do you

l\ead of t'1e

~

know.

tltrou~h
Iam~er

t"'le S nvt rumental 1 ty of. Ca.pt . Ra neen, tl\e
Fo roe )n 'l'exae, tliat t:.,at conapiracy wa.e
not

deteoted and t"1at

its/bei~

faot that just on

t~e

er of

]t

put !nto exeoution was due to tlie

eve of

im tlte town of

t~e upriaip~

Y.~n!?BV111e ,

~exas

lte arrested the lead?

A ! don't believe a word of :it.
~ Of

course not.

You don't believe t-:.1at?

A No , beoanee 1 lived

have

:r
~

~une.

amon~

t,.,,one people and tl\ey did not even

Tltey ooUld not have.

'.i'~e~r

were .1t1at as soared ae

~as .

Are you aware tlrtat tlie Adjutant General
1~tere

~as

in l\is custody

written pro and oon between t he ditferent

leadi~

conep5ra.tors and tltei r c¢-adjuto r s al onq the bo rder
and

eat.bliehi~

A ! am no t..

tli.at

consp~raay- ~were

outli n1n~

you aware of that?

r don' t see wltat 1 t liae to do wi tlt the

n:t.~ers

thouql\.

TexasQ. State
Archives Commission
It is Library
just in and
re~y to your SU"Cqeet ion tlta.t tl\ey were ru ·
321

inq

 :r w:il.l ask

tl-te labor away.

you if you

iJe1~e

advised of tlieir

co-operation w:itlt tlte .Federal Aut"i.or;t:i es a.nd I.ooa.l Feop:t. e
9'

loniz tlie border, th.at the ;CQ.n'lere 'Salfe trud r

eew':Soe in c'h.ecl<:jnu, o~ stoppjnss t~te

thje s1de to the other side-the

mot>t

eff~cient

exoduE of la.bor :from

~exican

!.abor.

A ! kno.w t'lia. t t'1 e Ferw.ers ha.vo al waye been cruel and unjust to
me vr1t11
on9 or t\210 exoe:pM o ns. and that 1 s all t. Y\a t ! ltnow a,

Q. l did not ask you about t.lia. t !ia.da.m.
~

was

as~in~

you .

t~ree

in svery County
l'e~il.l a 1·

~e~e

you advised t'1at

loyalty

Ran~era

over t '1-\a.t .

'1a7e ~one

You

Gove~nor

Hobby

a~po!nted

to co-operate with the

force and t1te local a.ut"'lor:itjee :fn

ltoldi~

tlie l'ex•

ioans jn this oountJ.'Y ?
Y:R. CANAJ, r;;s:

I ob,jeat to that kind of exantinat1on.

.

rt :is a ma.t.ter of

askj n~ w"i at Govewor appoi nt.ed.

record and is aimply

delayjn~

T'Ur, 'C''-tA'."f/JfAN:

A '!f he mee.ns loyal
Ian~ers

there, then

annoyjn~ th~

witness .

Qo al\ead wH,'h th.e answer.

Itan~ers.

when they abuse

and

~ublic

! don'

r,1e

loyal

t kno't what ''le reeans by

and ! a.m almost the only American

what js loyalty?

:if ycu don't l~n~w say you den' t kno ''•

A l don't 'kno\1, but he
vi'1at he

'78.~ted

m~oe

me to ans,·1er.

MH. KU!G'J-F.f:

t '1.e

lbn~e1~

thin~e

~

s11e see11'.s to be v:i. 01 ently opposed t o

Service a.114 '! r1anted to 'know :if erie 'knew wl'\at

they liad been

A May ! ltave

a point of loyal-! t '11oU'S'ftt th.at is

t~at

dojn~

~ood

down there?

out, that J nm violently opposed? ! llad some

very precious fr:i'&nds

amon~

tlie

Ra~ers

and.s> some of tltem l\ave

been very abus5•e to me and 1 did thi nk that they were not
controlled very badly, only to myself ! am

Texas State
Library
and Archives Commission
some of
my friends.

3 2'

sayi~

and to

 q,

No'1!

{~a trees Vea~er

couple of

F.an~ers

you ,.,_a,,e rel ated. tlte 1noident ''lien a

with ?Tr. 0Bcar Thompson came tliere and t'1e
follow:in~

controversy ret7ardin'?; the wat er and t"\e oonduot

cccured.

of fact

! v1il l ask you to state if you djd not as
re~ard

J~r.

heart and not vjait 1t upon
A ! critieieed the

~n~era

in

T~ompson

t~e

4on't think you

in your

own mind and

I{an~ers?

bein~

inees , no natter w118t t'"let'/ VJere

~~n

~matter

the unk:indneee of t'tat ooca.eion or the boorish.neas

on t"'1e pa.rt of any one but

'!

it

there where they "iad no b us•

doi~

orv1'11.o they were with.

understood my questjcn; did you not 5n your

mind and heart hold acoount•hte

Oeoar

~~ompson

alone on

tY\e conduct of that occa.s ~on?
A J th1 n'k ho

l''8.S direct:in~

terests and ti-a.t he wae
~et ri~ht

Q To

t"tE:·ee men 1n protect1n~

them for their

us1n~

down to the quention.

certain i n-

p1~tect1on.

!sit not a fact

sued l'r. Oaca1.. Titompson in JtcJ'ullen County

tor

Dama.~ea

t~r.¢

you

on &C•

count o'f' h:io treatment to you on that occae:ion't'

:r• is

A ! t i a a. fa.ct ! ·did not.
~ainat

myself.

~e

a. fact t 1'\at J answered a su1 t

enjoined me from

usjn~ ~Y

water any more

and not pay for it, llw open t'te isates or anyt..,.:.w, . just-... poeaeea
i t '1.)mself and 1-te sued me a1d l answered "11s pi'Oceas and tlte man
t"1Gt ia now ~ post in~

you , I refuse to answer '11 s quee- .

tiorm and tl''\e J'ud~e perm:! tted

doea not speaK

bnislis~.

me not t.o ammo:r t'iem because l'\e

~e ap~lca

German.

Q, Yon told the Comni ttee you d:f d not oue Csca.r T'hOJ?JPson in a.ey di s-

trict court on that occasion?
A! answered the question.
Q. Jn that suS t 1n

Duv~l

1 an6"ere4 l'\js sujt.

County, l '!?till aetc you if you did not

ffle a orose bill there

a~4-l1net

'1.im for datt:a£tes,

predicatin~

your claim for compensat1on on what occurred on that occas ion?
A !
"

did

Wi10

not.

waa your Attorney on

t~at

occas ion?

Texas State Library
and Archives
Commission
MR. CANALES:
l objec
t t o t"iat.

 ·.i11at djfference does it rnalce'l

HElTATO"\l?AG~:

Jud1~e

A J!ly Attorneys wer e, ! '1a.d

:r

en~a~ed

.) u d~ e Wa lli~

:B!l.lloc:k and

and

a. man f'rom ltol!ull en County: named, it ia a Ge:rman

'

\

name, ! wou.l d

c~oke

to say it , but a.ny·wa.y

lie too'k my papere

went to Court '1 e said, ''Oli. no , 1 am Oscar 'l'llompson'

~nd 'Vhen 1

Lawyers a.rid
now, and '!

11.!lv~

l;ee11 for 18 yea:t"s .

triou~Yi.t

m.v

he wao

that Court Cpeneti and h.e

j

He ' ~

11

ar

s p oatint::r. t11:tis man

l f.;fl.rtyer, and t'lio.t was tne morni nq

a a Oerman.

Q, But. you lia<l t.'1ree 0th.era lawye :ro to ·,,,;atcli

hi~?

I° u.ot these ot'1er lawye.ra. someone t old

A r~o not t.o watc'1 }\jm.

me who would no t do to trust. t'1a.t ~ ne~ded other counsel anyvt ay

!

and ! l-\."1.d aJ. ready

~ot

aome more.

Q. Yes , but 1 d jdn'

am

toei 'It "l~m
there and then
·,

t unde rstand the n.i.we of t;IB,t Gentleman· you
G1ve t"te Oommittee t'1.e name of t"le man who

pootin'! me?

A :i:. cannot ss.y 1 t ,
T'fE
A

aS"ed one

no you underet.l.rd it?

aay :Js pcutin~ me .
~a

e~

:r know it and

OtfA!RlfA:M:

! kno11 t lte flice .

\

:rs th.e faae 11ere tc<lay'J

\

Yes, ' t i s t'la.t one :r.5~'l1t tlicre (;pojnt:inl))

irn. CAlf.AI,ES: Mr. :Bu;r111eiot~r :i s t\1e orJ.e isn't it?
I

I

A Probably.
v.e

~ot

"e is tl-te one '! erw.ao:ed t'1at had\

papers and a fter
'"
to Court l\e f;ajd trtt '•e \'1as t'lie othe1· ron 1 s iawyei.-.
J~R.

to your
A

J&:rmrir:

oase</

\

Cel~tajnly .

Certa:f nly.

\ .\

t '1e result?

\

A Now you aeked me awhil e
li a r.
Q,

..o 1

\

'\

.\

Q, '11li e oa.ae was tried?

Q. V/ha t was

ley"

'
\
Q, Did all, -tli.e otlter lawyers :rem~in l oyal

I

A

....

a~o,

you are

try1n~

to

\

make ~ me

ou t a

\

am not l:adam"!

A You
asK:ed
me did
mal(e t '11 s Commission
suit a.nd l said ! did not... in
Texas
State
Library
andT Archives
'\
32'1 Cou6ty. you a s ked me Duval County and r said n~. ·.
I

I

\,.

Dt.tval

 ~!asked

vou in any Distrjct Court, or 1n any court.

Now did you

liave a tuit i·n any Di strj ct Court•/
A Tltat maKes me so nervous (referri~ to Nr· Kn~~1'\t 'a ~estioula­
t~ono

and mannerism).

Q, D:i cl 7rou. sue l!.r. 0eca.r ':''iornpson in any court dovm tl-\er-e?

! am no't tlie 1 east b:l t rleaf. (8-fe :ls refer:d n~ to 1.f.r. Y.ni~'l-\t ( s

A No.

tone of v~ioe).
Q,

:r

he~

your pardon.

r

Did yoti

court do\Tn V'lere?

sue him in any
A No

voio-1 hs sometimes exnloei ve.

My

answered a suit and in ans"ter:f~ an

injunction suit one 1'\sa

t'!ie pr:fvjle~e of asK1~ for dam~ea and ! did eo.
~

you djd that?

Oh

A No J d5d not. ! an&wered a eui t a.nd 'J asked fo:t
Q. Oh tli a.tis flne.

we ujll F.eop :it

dam.il-~~s.

tltat,

We al·e, we were a lona: t:ime isettirnz to
r:i~ht

now.

T'tE CTiA'!"lillA'ff:
acme neoeasary Mme,

J t"'iinlc u0 unsel mi&;11t eave t'te Committee
lY'.atte~''c

matters t'1at ax•e

of record; you

can a.ale her9 i f t"'tey are and th en you m:i o:"l t :ref er to t'1e re-

oo rds.
\.~at

l'R. KlITG't£T:

A 'l'lia.t is record t6o.

A

T

S~all

was t'~e reslll t of that s11:it?
'! answer it'?

TfIE C"fA!lUf_.\N:

Yss a.newer j t u. nd 1 ets ~et t~ro~l\.

SE!iTA'J. en

! hel:i eve

v..ron jt.
~V!T 'l' :

r

will oppose obj ectjon to

fur-Uher inter.ro&);a.tori es vd t.''1 reference to Ll"!t;ue quest! ens .

ca.nnot see where tYiey effect t.lie matters under
T~E C~A1RMAN:

very

\Vi de

inveeti~ation.

I tl\ink the examination 1e takiru:t a

la.ti tude.
l.~R.

t~e

I

KNIGHT:

tzy only obj eot

wae th:i s; She

a.rl"ai~ed

lBnv,era on tl\ie particular occasion for tl\e:ir conduct and !

waa endeavorina: to sltow that ehe v:is:ited. an

outra~e

part of
Oscarand
T~ompeon instead of t~e
Texas State
Library
Archives CommissionRan~ere-in
32\,,

upon the

t~is

litiqa-

 ti on.

was t'lr\e only ob.j

'l'n~t

SENATO~

W5tt1

~ot

Were

~

t'hat l '1.a.d 5n my Jl\ind a.t all.
t~e

FAn~ers

parties p'8int1ff i n

).

t''\at oizit at all?
A "(ITo but t'iey were

as"l<in~

?'1e about tl\e

.Ibn~ers ,

t'lote oonneot ion !

That 5 s tlie oonneot:i on 1 had.

rHv3. w1 tl\ t11em.

l'R. KN!G!-!T!

!Tone of t"ts ~n~enJ we:ee Sn tV\at lit1~a.­

t5on at all?
A T11.c~y

were sent there to Court
SF..'N.'ATOR '.~TT:

auit
A l~o

Q.

a~ainat

'1'1'\ey dj d not j otnw; "H.:r• Thompson in tl11 s

you?

s:ir.

'!'here:fo~e

you

dj

d not sue tl1em, you juat sued back a.'Sa:i ne t

':i'liompson ] n a cro so-action'?
MR. KN!O!t'l':
~n<ljv~duals

r~red

At San J)j eD;O the time you

off their revolvero to refresh your

tj c1n, waszi' t that on tl\e ni ~ht, wa.en' t th.ere e.
'f'ir5n~

say certa.i n

~oo

r~ooll e o­

d <lea.l o f

t'iare t'l-\en a.nd v;asn' L th.at d.mnediately, a. day or

t\10 ,

A ! r}on' t l:now.
Q, \1as

j

t. i-:erore'l

• A !t wa..e after, but ! don't know, the

r1 rst firj n~ l neal'd.

uaed to come a.ro\;me. ImJ house or pretty near me and a'ioot
and·, a.nd '! heard it wae
~

t~

e

Ian~ero

'l'l\ey
~ns

d oj nl", :1 t .

You qon't know t,,eir names?
I

A ,. do not.

: just aalted the S1'iariff to etop it and i t wa.s stopped .

Q. ! l>el i eve tlia.t' .s a11.
l,

CHAYm'AN m..EOSO:E:

Capt. sanders the
A r t was n't
~ Alrj~~t

ni~ht ,

ni ~nt

v'lh.o w4re tl\e

that were wi th

you say tney l\eld 5lP your ear?

it was in the

mornin~ .

in t'ie day then?

No , J Library
don' t and their
namesCommission
TexasAState
Archives
azq
~no~

Tan~ers

exc~pt ~ie .

 Q, Wo111 d you 'know tii.em if you snoul d oee t"tem?
'

A 1f t~ey snarled and s~owed about that much (i ndic • tin~ yellow
teetii.) T m1 ~ltt, and curse, but

they wer~ clean and ~entl e­

jf

manly looki n~?
~) anders

Q, Now d :J d Ca:pt.

&Set out of t11e car i n w'lii clt "le was

ri«in~

and come to your ca.r?
A Yes s:l :r.
~

D5ri

:pull h.ie

lte

pis tol'~

A No lte d:i d not 1.'Ull hi a pi atol on rr.e t

·re cent t'1ose boys to do

11t. these man to do it. and t"'iey were in the

to

~_,ave

Q. Yoil

t~a.v

been

j

dr~

ft aue and ou~ltt

n tii.e Army.

you did nc t know them?

A ! aa5d :ff they looked tht:n. those faces ,. w11l a1·r!a.ys remanber.
~ T

A

naked you if you know

:r

Cne of them. !

do not•

Q. You refel" to tne

to your 1'\ouse

a'1oot1n~

"tantjn~

'had t 11. a 'key to t "1. e j

f1nd

~ 1 id ~e

A Olt not.

Q.

or

t~em?

~im

h~ard- -

! am poor

bere at

the~r

look-

in to':.·m tna.t n:f.;t,ltt v.rhen tl\e boy same

tne jailer:

a~ l

a.t names.

D1d. lte fina tlie man

t~at

?

t~e hou~e?

not t'1.ere?

your own

lrnoVJled~e

do you l<now

w~etl\er

o:r,. no;t that tiiose

men w"10 }tad done the s'l-\co t:i nq; were arrested?
A Yee.

!

d:J d not see t."'lem a~:rested , but one of t"te offj cers

told me that t"'tey were.
4

CT.fATIDf.AW

BJ.EDSO l<~

:

ber oftt"i.e Committee desire to ask
MR.

T!D'tr[f.JJ:

...

Tl-lat is a11.
a~ythin~?

"?r-iat County do you live in'/

A Duval County.
Q, W't\a.t pa.rt 1 cul ar

town?

A It 1s
ran Die~o.
State
Library
and
')Texas
~ fI

r) )

Does any other mem.

Archives Commission

 Q, 'l'hat size town ia San

Dietr.o~·

1t js just a ra.nch.

AC~

Q. t10\1 ma '1y eto rea t

1

'1

ere?

A Ch. l oould not tell you;

j

t "1.ae about 3500 ! t ltink tl'\ey say.

Q, I~o\V lon~ 1we you lived thor~*?

A

:r

1-tave lived in San D:i e'to

a 1no~· J l\ave bot been

t"le:re cont in.

uo11s1.v .
lota~re

lcna

Q. 1 fo,·1

you. been

ca.111n~

t'1.at your 1'\ome, conside.X-in&S tltat

your ht'me. a.bout appr~Jmately hOVJ lo~. i.n years?

A Well ! l\ad lived jn tl1e tc . .m jn part of' la.st year and part of
t"'ii s

year, up to tliis tHlre, tl-\i s

~rea l\- J mean si nee

lio?"ember.

Q, When Capt . Sanders apprehended you on the rca.d , tl\a.t occurred
sometime 1 nst yea.I'?
\

A Yes s~ .

Q, TYi at was after t"ie draft l aw beoame effeot:i ve and t'ie beys were

h e1 na. sent to t"le Army?

A Yea a t.
Q, !a your T{11sba.nd at San D5 t~Q; o now, or is lte lte:re?

A ! ltave no ltusband.

q,

'l'low muc'h land do you own wown th.ere•?

A !e

t~at

necessary too?

Q, '! th1nk so,

want to 'know wriet'lier you are a

J

A 011 no , "" am not.
l~:R .

a 'he :le a.

A

~{e

th~n1'

we ouQ;1'tt t.o know tl1a.t, wlteth.er

wan ts to 'know wi.iet'1.er ! liave much land or w1'tetlter ! 11.ave not.

your

h.oldin~s ·

ques t ~

Q,

!

land owner do-um tllere •

TqE cqA11WAN:

A "!

rancl\ owner?

!t is limited.

T:!Dm<rr.r~ :

la.r~e

la~e

We are entitled to 1'\ave tlte extent of

How mu oh land do you co ntroll there, answer tl1e

on.

~ve

leased my place.

Alri~ltt;

~ow

muolt do you

! do not oontrol any ri~ltt now.
01111?

A "! own a section and a ltal f .

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 T!lE C1!A!Rl"A f\:':

Was th.at your question,

tlR. TJD"?i:E!LI,:

i a all

'1'1-ta t

Ju~g?

! care to ask.

lfR. LACKX: '.!here wae Capt. Bandera w'rten trieee men

you say that looked l ike

Gel"m~ns

held th.e pistol on you?

A H'e was wi t'l-\ t'1em.

Q, l>id lie '!,et out of t'he oar?
Te .1 uct sent tli (~m a.n<l t'l1.-en '1-\G ~ot 011t of t'he car.

A

1

~

Where vr e lte, i.n tne car, 'rl.e aent t"t.en,--11.ow far apart were the
ca.re?

A R'o car wae about
the

passa~e

~hey

Wdre

bloc~ed,

o~

of mine.

ri~h.t nea~

eaon

oppos1te of m1ne . about blocked

ot~el'-• did

you hear h.im send tliose

men'?
A l saw liir11 motion to tllen.
Q, D:i d he aay anytliJnQ.; to t'1.em \·/hen t11.ey drew tlte pi stol on you?

A l' could not liear 11.:Jm.

'I.'y care was runn1nu, and his vta.e too.

!

ooi.;J d h.ear t'1.em.
Q. D:id t-i1ey point th..e pistol at your?

A They did,
~You

r:f ~h.t direqtly at me.

say you don't 'know the names of those men?

A l know the man th.at corrananded th 811.
Q. \'!ere they Ra.nESers?

A They were l suppose. tli.ey ltad on

~ne

and t'li.ey were w:ith f\im and

he wa o comrnandirus t'1.em.
~

Judqe niedaoe asked if those men who arrested, if those men were
ar:r.·e zted that did the ehootjng-were they

:ran~ers?

A ! don't know.
~

Do you know wl-io t11.ey were?

A 1 do not•
'

I know they were

Ra.n~ers ,

tliat is all.

Th at did tlte sh.oottru;?

A Vlnere.
~

The

n1~ht

they did the

uhootin~

up of t'l-\e town and oame to the

Statea:fter
Library
Commission
',J> ')
3Texas
liouae
theand
key Archives
to tli.e Jail.
You eai d

tl\ey were 16n~ers .

 .J

A Tlt ey were.

don't know wno

~You

t~ey

were?

A l never heard them apol<en of only Juat ae !anc;ere, · Sa.pt. SanBa.n~ers .

ders'

waa 1 t tlte :Rarusera who dj d the s'l-\oot1nq

SENATO.r-1 WITT:
and. \'1ere

A 'llint

j

a f terwards arrested?

e •vl\a t t '1.ey told me •
SJ!!11A'fCiR PA~J!<:

Vl'iat was your maiden n ame befo :c-e you

T1Brr~ed'?

A ! e t?'la t necessary?
Q. Well ! h.ave asked you t"lie questj on?

A UcGorn.
Q, Your irusba.nd•s name was what?

A

Yea~er.

Q, How do you spell that?

Q. ire was German w~an' t

he?

. A Uo a:lr.

Q, Vlliat t1ae h1s

fatjonaJ.ity't

A 'Ffje people came from t'ie Unj t.ed Sta.tee--oame to th.e United Sta.tea

and settled 1n a colony, in SHlpepper County Vj ~inia from Enisl and .
~

Then

A 1'To

~e

ne

wan an

hn~l ! sltman?

was an Amer:i can.

Q, He waa from En~la.nd?

Vf'ten the war brolce out

Sta.tee and Germany what

we \"Tera juf.>t:ified in
A

\~y

oe rtajnly we were

~

You

t~ink

~as

6?;01.n~

between tl-i e United

your 1dea a.bout t ''lat •r

Do you tltin'k

I

to war w:lt'h. Germany or not?

justif~ed .

we were?

A Certainly •re were .
~

!n other words your sympathiea were wjtlt the All i es in t...,,at mat -

ter?
A Certainly.
Texas
State Library and Archives Commission

3~·1

 EXAl111Ul> BY lffi. CA?{AJ.ES: Q, You stated you were an

aosociate member of tfte Lo <nl Board of Let!al Adv:i eers :in your
Ccunty?

A Yes sir.
Q, Besides th.at djd you hold any olb11er offjce, off:fc.:ia.l. pos:itjon?

A Wh:~t is offfcjal pts:it5.on?
~ You ei~n your name '1ere as V; ce 0lia.1 nna.n

or

t'1 e 'Joma..n' s Suffra~e.

do you 'Ytold tl-tat pos:i.tion?

A No not V:ice Cli.air.man.
l'R. KN!GP.'T:

! eajd J wae County

Ch~ i:rman.

Do J underot and you to aay tli& you ltave

no T.fusband.now jn a nswer to J('r. Witt·?
TttE C'!-IA!.R'trAN:

Ans,.1er t lie quest jon.

A ! did ane 'ler it, yes.
Q, ! wanted to 'know.

A ! t 1s on

~eco1"d.

THE CH'A!n.T!.AJ:r:

You '1'111 saye much t5me,

A Well ! have no t.
~

Wllere is your husband?
T~ C"!l~rm··J..:r:
~et

:nea.ae answer t'l-\e quest~on and let{s

t i,rou~'1..

A! 1 have none.
SENATOR 'P Jrse:

V/\1. ere is

t.~e

'ientl eman ifo 1"ttom you l\ave

'heen marr:i ed?

A! don't knovr.
T~:B CtfA:rro.~AN:

Are,,. you divorced from 11.im or 1 s l-te dead?

A Di vorcecl.

NR.

KNIG~T:

111'\en did

t~at

oocur, wli.en were you divo?'-

oed?

A Last year.
~

What t1me plfase?

33Texas
J
A Jlay
or Library
.Tune, I and
don'tArchives
remember.Commission
State

 ~

~en

visa it you uent to California?
Ttt.£ C.."tlA!EUA.m

tfon nlcn

t~~t

J'u~EI f~lJtltt,

line would be

T think furtlier e.xamSna-

impr.ope~ ~nd

; think it 1a 1rmna"

terial.

-~--~-------------------~-----·

CtrARGF. FILED BY Tf.l'OJ'AS

WESJ~EY

l-fOC

r.

To non VI '! Bledsoe; C'l-iairman, and the otlier members of t'l>\e

Committee

investi~atin~

Ra.n~er

the State

Force:
followin~

At your directjon ! fjle with you the
cliar~e

ai:i:ai net tiffo Ste.te Rant;era; Captain sanders and - - - - wh.o

was vd tl-\ liim on t'1e ocoaej on her.ei na.rter ref er red to:
\

Durin.v. the term of D:tstr:f ct Court for Brooks County,
I

Texas held either in

t~e

fall of the year 1916 or the

of the year 1917, while ! was in,,

t~e

sprin~

attorneys enclosure of the

Dj str:i ct Court Hoom, a man w'l-\om ! had. never met'."-but whom 'I afterward 1 earned was Ca.pta5.n Sanders of t'l-\e na,n:::-er force, accosted
I

me

aekin~

! repl:ied :in t'1e '-affirmatiYe and

~ook.

if rny name was

\

/

.

~

wae at l e1eu:r.ie. , ! immediately
\
~
. laid

he asked to see me when

T

a hook on th.e papers in

t~e

.

\

~andlinu,

case : was

..

'\

him and th.e ot'1er ramr,er who wa~ w:i trt htm; out int~~~ th.e h.a.ll.
/

1

\

and followed
~\.

(

Th.ere h.e asked me 1 f 1 had pr,pai;,ed a ~et. 1 ti on at 1\~~uevill e. 1
replied jn the affi.I'l!lative

statin~,. tl-\a~

'!' lia.d used

to me by some !'exioans, and had/ formulated i t into

/

~

\

~ta brouo;ht

a~pelf.ition.

qe asked me if ! didn't know th.~th.e da~a' was all a lie. ! stated
that

r did not know it to

be~, but beli~ved now and th.en be-

lievedLibrary
i t to be
T~ere}tl>On
he drew hie
Texas State
andtrue.
Archives
Commission
t

~~

pistol and attempted

to ei tl-ier beat or snoot me with. 1 t , he holdi~
~.t by t'1.e '-1.andl e.
\

 I warded it off with my left hand four different times. During
this the other Ranger who stood at

my

left while I faced Captain

Sanders, attempted to seize my left hand but I shook him off.
Captain Sanders desisted end I said,"You are a pretty officer,
attacking an unarmed citizen with a pistol."

He re-plied that .he

t

didn t know I was unarmed. I stated "What is the matter with you.

-

are you drunk"

He replied "Do I act as though I was drunk"

I

•..

answered "You smell as though you were."
By this time the deputy Sheriff had come up, also the oourt
stenographer had appeared from an adjoining room. Captain Sanders
made a partial apology, the deputy sheriff herded me off into the
court room and Captain Sanders and the other ranger left.
(Signed)
FILED FEB. · 5th, 1919.

THOHAS WESLEY HOOK.

Walter Pridemore, Sec'y.

---------------------~----

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 VENTURA R. · SADCHEZ •

having previously been

~uly

sworn. teet1f1ed as follows

before the Joint Committee:

DI RE CT

E XA H I N A T I 0 D.

By flr. Oanalee.
Q

Where do you live?

A

San Diego.

Q

What is your offio!al position?

A

Constable.

Q

How lone; have you been constableY

A

Since last election.

I was appointed before ·,- if

you will wait a second, I was appoint ed the 14th day of Oct- .,
ober, 1918.

Q

Do you know any of the Rangers stationed at or near

San Diego?

'

~

A

Yes, I do kno'"' nearly every one of them.

Q

It is charged.here that some of those Rangers had .\

fired their pistols and they were somewhat intoxicated

'

an~1

\

1'

raised all sorts of oa1n over there in your town on or ~.'b6~\:
Deoember of last yeer.

\

,.

A

Yes, sir.

Q

Now will you please relate that circumstances , tp

:1

,i·.~

.

t~e

Well, I was there about eight o'clock at n1ght on the \\.
/

::t:a:fD::::m:::~ts:::::a:rn::::~_:h:::Y:nm:r:a::e:e:::P
when I heard some shooting down town, about a blook ,from

r

~

' '\,, j\ "'.

Committee?
A

\

was. I got up from the chair; I thought it was: a

.

\"
\''

~~re

~ire brok~

out somewhere, When I got 'llp to the "corner,~ go.t up trom the \
chair and went outside and stood at the oorner and I heard a
car running just a block

fro~ ~~ere

I was and turned the other

oorner. It was on the opposite side from where I was,

an~

\

7
Texas
State Library and Archives Commission
33'
turned the oorner just one block from where I was and I saw I~

1

\
I

)

 the fire and heard the shooting. I didn't get through (shaving)
- - I just had one side shaved, and I went inside and I heard
some holloaing and shooting and I knew there was some drunk
fellows there,-- ! didn't knew who they were. I went inside and
got through and ~ent down to where the shooting started and
investigated the matter and they told me who they wera.
Q

Who were they?

A

George Hurst and· Daniel Hinojosa.

Q

What position did they hold?

A

Ranger.

Q

Whose

A

Captain Sanders.

Q

·Stationed at?

A

A11ce.

Q

What were they doing when they were arrested?
~~ey

Q

com~any?

were drunk and raising

thu~der,

that's all • .

\

Is it the custom for the Rangers to come there an4
l'
'

get drunk?
.A

\

~\'

In San Diego, yes •
,

Q

f\

Isn't it a £act that the best place to get a dri~ .·~

now is to go to a Ranger camp and get it?
A

\

That· is what I have been told. y:es.

'A
,
\ ''1 \ ..
Q Have you seen them drunk on any other occasions? ' '\, . .·". . .......,_
~
A
Yes·•• the 24th day of December, 1918, righ,t at the \\
~
.
corner of the State-- -! met Mr. George Hurst and when . I was ,

-

I

going by him, and another man.

·'

\

Q

A,

I

·~

Do' you
. know who the other man was?
Blac-kman or :Blackwell.

'

Waa ~ he

'

'l

, (q

~t

'

'\

I

Yes. but he was leaning against the Bank,

leanin~
t

aga.f pat the

.~all,

ever. it is,

~nd

that is ?.tr. Blackman or Blackwell, whioh

/
Mr. Geor ge Hurst wsp on the ou'ffside
· of

\

I,

.

also a Ranger?

I

Al,_

I

"

\
\

~he
\
\
s~.ewalk,
when
I was
going Commission
by where they were he told me, Mr.
Texas State
Library
and
Archives
l

/

/

t.

 George Hurst, he says, "Now, here, you Ventura, you son of a
bitoh, I don't like to see you in front of me and if I ever
see you before me I am going to shoot hell

o~t

of you, you

son of a bitch," and jerked hie hand to his pistol, and I
knew right at the time that he was drunk, so I didn't have
my gun with me, wasn't no use to stop to argue •he matter with

him while he was ·drunk. ao I kept on going.

I says, "All

r1ght, George," and kept r'ght on going. Right in the middle
of the street from where I left I met Mr. Ganzales, the
deputy sheriff. He was on the other side of the oorner of
the street. He asked me what was the matter.

I say, "George

tell me he didn't want me to be 1n front of him," so I had
to leave. !I I knew he was drunk and put hie hand on his gun
and waa going to shoot hell out of me, like he said. eo I
kept right on going and went down to the corner and I just
'I

went arour1d a block and went to my house and met Mr. Joe BrQoks
who was ooming on a ·oar with Mr. Hornsby.
Q

Whnt Joe Brooks?

A

He is a

Q

What official position doea he hold?

A

He is a Ranger.

Q

Is he a sergeant of Sanders' company?

A

~anger.

\
\

,~

I think he is, sergeant. He is a Ranger. I met him ~ \

Mr.
' \

the oar. He was sober and a good friend of mine also. Also
Huret bed been a good friend of mine but a1noe that

sboo~in~

\

he has been kinder cross-ways with me, but I met Joe Brooke'

\

.

on the way home and Mr. Hornsby.

\

Q

Another Ranger?

A

Yes, sir. another Ranger by the name of Wright, and

I stopped the car and I told Joe I would like to aee him, I
wanted to speak to him.

He got off of the oar and we walked

farther
the car
and I said, "Now, Joe,
a little
Texas State
Library
and from
Archives
Commission

! want

\

 you to go and tell George I don't want to have no shooting
scrape with him, I don't want him to kill me or have me to kill
him, ·and tell him I am his friend; what I did to serve the
warrants on him, to deliver the warrants is my duty and for
'
him being an officer
he ought to appreciate what I did for them

and not be mad at me, I don't want him to be my enemy, I don ' t
want to be his enemy eithero"
he is drunk," and he

laughed , be says, uI will attend to that

matter, he is drunk."
Later on,

He says, "All right, Ventura,

Well, he got in ' the aar and went on.

that was on the 24th day of December,

when this

oocurred, and on the 30th day of December, Arturo Uunoz oame
to me and says, "You better watch out," he says, "George ie
looking for you. Be asked me while ago for you and he is hunting you up and he is drunk."

I says, "Well, it 1s all right.

I am going to get out of his way if I oan so as not to meet
him and have trouble but avoid that," but before that one
Juan Cantoz Deputy Sher1 f'f, Jailer

at San D~ ~ . tlttl.t was.

on the 25th day of December when Oantoz came to me and says
" Now you bdtter wato~ out whenever you ~o out of town or
~o

around tovnr. "

He eays, •Of course

and he told me he wae

~ojn~

Geor~e

islooki?ll$ for yo

to kill you and if he $Ver aomee

down to San Die~o ra:t si~ any can• or hell for us not to ~o

around but let ltim

~o

because he ~s ~oin~ to shoot neil out of

you and kill you l i ke a

do~. "

! says " Alri~ht , ! 'have to do

my duty if ! hold my office and 1f ! am Constable I ·liave to ~o
and awrest
~o ,

~im

or any other man who raises thunder jn San Die-

T have to do it even i t he :ts the Sheri ft.

n

and on the 30 t

day ·Of December I left the Court t!ouse about 6 O' Cloc'k in t he

e veni n~ on t'he way to my ra.nclt.
oouple of miles.
t~e

name

! 11 ved out of town about a ' ·

Wltile ! was goi ~ in the ca.r a fellow by

of Fred Sltedo

\I

, ! n1red his oar to take me to my

Banoli; ! ,.,ent to ll'lilk and iset t'1e meat w'hile ! was out there

State
Archives
Commission
3Texas
fl'
wl&~leLibrary
! was and
at th.e
milltn~ 1:r.
Geor~e Hurst

was comin~ jn a l i t-

 tle red Roadster car and he eaw me and when he
~oin~ thl7''1U~h

he

sa~

me he waa

the street and went around the block ..by the time

around the block l got jn frr3' car and went on my way home.

~ot

When he eaw 1
~o

! \ta.ve to

in the car he followed me about 4 blocks and

~ot

out in the oountry a

l told that boy when I saw him

couple of miles like ! ea1d •

follow in~

me and was as olose to

me as to that sh.ow oa.se over there 1 ea.ye ite l§etter turn around
and

~o

j

nto town beoa.uae if l!•

ahootin~

~o

fart lier on he mi :sltt start

at me and ! have to shoot at him, and if it happens

! do kill him then the blame would be on me for

road and then he wouid say ! was
he

~-,as ~oin~

~ome

~oin~

bein~

on the

on the road outside and

on the road and shot him.n 1 turned around to my

·q e eaw me and followed.me to the house and when I went in

the house

~e

drove around the block one

o~

two didferent times

and then be left and went on.
Q, How nany times did they ehoot up that town that you kri>w of?

A Tltat !

know just t"t\at

Q, But you have

A That

ni~ht

.

s:1~le ni~l-lt •

eeen him drunk?

and on the 24th day of December, tryat wae in the day

t:ime.
Q, And it :is a coum1on report that they always ~et drunk?

A Yee eir.
Q, Another

thin~,

4id you arrest them?

A Well ! served, I

~ot

the warrants ne.xt morninq; that

ni~ht

ne

went to loo le u;p the Justi cei of tlie Peace to P,;et t'li.e Warrants
a~e er
f~om

!

found cut who they were and

and l had advice

the County ClerK at San Diego , they are drunk. they are your

t r ! ende , you 1et
Q,

eveiyt~in~

t~en ~o

and you serve

wa.rranta tomorrow.

t~e

W"lo told you t'li.at?

A Tlle County C1 erlk.
Q, I s he here jn town?

A Yee he ie here.

~e

says they are drunk.

You

and Archives Commission
34Texas
1
tState
'rt em ~oLibrary
•

mi~ht

as

~ell

let

 Suppo oe you don't have your wi tness

THE C"H:A!R?,.AU:

detail ao much of tlrl e stuff'.

Don't detail any oonversat5.one

now occurjrus bet\Teen you and anybody except yourself and the

.

Ra~el:'e o :r when the '.Ra.n'1:ers were present,

A To come to the

~~er

one or more of th.em•

propos1 t1on about the wal"re.nte , I have to

a;o farther on or ot"terw:ise J oa.nnot t;et to jt ,

tm.

CA !V..!.ES:

~

D:f d you f:l nally serve

t

lie warrants on

them or not?

Q, Did tl:tey come be:fore the justice of the peace for trial?

A Io tl1ey djd not; I f$Ot the warrante and went to Alice where
When Y ~ot to Alice 1 tound they were ~one throu~h

they stajd.
t~e

lower country, both of them, and 1 had

r vent to the
t~em

to San

wa.rr~ts

for bothl

Sheriff at Alioe and told them to be sure to serve

Die~o

when

t~ey

came

b~ok

so that

n1~ht !

went to

tlie Slieri ff wl-to was ~oi n~ to be Sli eri ft and :f s n• , tli.at is Yr.

Price-Q. Waen' t lte a

Rln~er.

A He was a
up w:f tli.

Ra~er?

t~e

Re went to San

Die~o

and tried to fix natter s

Justice of the Peace and looked for me and

didn't

find me because! wasn't tl:tere and fixed it some way or another
with ~e J'uetioe of the Pea.oe, tli.at they would not do it ~in,

they were

~oi ~

to atay there and behave and tltey were very so 1"'
~ad

ry about what they

done and 1f they would let them

f'irst time they would never do it
~eaoe

told me the

follow1n~

a~ain,

~o

for t lte

eo tlie Justice of the

day.

Q, Tl'tat ~ e alri~ltt , don't deta:f l wlia.t the J'uat1oe o.f tl-te Peace

aaid•

Tliat iu all.
EXATf.!NED BY ?KR. KN!GHT:

Q. Tltat was on the

evenin~

A ! ...a.et year, yea sir.

of

t~e

16th of November last year?

State Library and Archives Commission
"i,_ •)
3Texas

':.

__

 ~ood

Q. There was a
not and

deal of ex citement in town that

ni~ht

vtas it

celebratin~?

A Not tkat ! know of.
~

Do you know wh.eth.er a number of cars or people tnat oame in
'

A I wa.s there all

ni~h.t

and 1 never saw a.ny di eturbance o f Ute

peace whatever except that

ohoot1n~·

Q. You djd not see any of that?
A

No sir •.

Q. Tl'tere was no

f~re

except by these

R;Ln~ers

?

A Tnat ia a11 , yea sir. that.niu.ht.
Q, Yes tliat ni~h.t . r.rere the streets noisy or were tl-ley dese1·ted?

A Not that I 'know.
Q. You never sened a;ny warrants on any oft '11..ose men did you?

A Not on the

Rln~ers.

I left th.em to th.e Sheriff of Jtm Wells

County .
Q. 'Tl\ey \Vere never arreate• at all?

A No eir t"1e-• on account they oame to Aiioe-~

The papers were never eervod on them at all?

A Mo sir, ti.at ie that J know r

Q. There is a

~ood

~ave

tltem to the Sl1eritt.

deal o! feeling down there isn't there?

A How 1 s tliat.

Q. I eay ti.iere is a

~ood

deal of

feeli~

down t1'tere in your country?

A Towards what?
Q. OTer po1101e1?
A I have not mixed up in politics very much, l cannot tell you a.

bout that .
~

Rew did you happen to

~et

to be Constable?

A \iell tl\eyr came tome and asked me if tney run me as Constable
\70tll.d

I take the poai tionand I told tl-\em if tltey

tliou~nt

I was

suitable for it I was willi~to take it, a boy tha:t llad been

1 ')
Texas
State
andborn
Archives
v~}
raisedLibrary
there and
in SanCommission
Die~o, ! tho~nt
~

i t was best for

 me to talce i t.
Q. You !l1<1de the race?

·.

A Yes s; r .
Q. "'ou

A

1~0

were in politics
see1dn~

not

see'ld.q~

o f:fi oe?

Wey told me if' tltey '7ould run me \'IOuld

offj ae.

,. take :1 t .
Q. Who told you?

A Some of

mv

beat friends . the County Clerk and Juan Veone who Se

dead now.

Q. '7ho did you suppose for Senator down t"tere?

MR.

.s

CA..~AL BS:

!

Don' t ~o into that brancli of it .

Tl-tE Ctt.AJ :m!AN:
1cR . 1UH&3!1T:

objeot to tl-Bt •

~!

will ask you to state 1 f tltos e mm

wllen tli.ey oarne in there th.at

ni~l\t

were not 1 nvest:i 'Sa.tin~ :EJ.ec-

t :ion fl"aud?

I

4 No sjr.
~

And

~ad

they been active there for a number of weeks since the

eleot1on?

A They were there before.
Q, T~ey had been very

tion

~ra.ude

inveetiqatin~

and

developin~

Elec-

in your County?

A No. these t-cnr
doin~

actjve in

~en~lemen

already--! don't know what they were

or what they were a.fter--

Q. Were any otlter of the foroe there

investi~ati n~

the Elec tion

Fraud?
A No t'lie one e ! know, because we had a bus i neee matter oon·f"erenee

tliat \'1as l' r. Hansen, we 11.ad private business oonvereat:ion, not

a.bout these natters•
Q, As I understoo

a. you

there was no ot'her

ran~ere investj~a.t:fn'S

l!il. ectlon .TI'rauds except tltose two?

3 . ~~ AState
Yes s1Library
r.
Texas
and Archives Commission

 ~

You are a constable in Daval

Count~?

A Yes ! am now.

Q. Have you property in Jtm WBlls?

4 ! have if es sir, and in Duval. both.

Y..re. sanohez live in J1m Welle on the Ranch?

~Does

A Uone t"ttat 1 knovt sir.

't You are a rrarriednan?
A ¥es ! am.
~

Does Mra

Sano~ez

live in Duval ?

Q. She does . not live on t'lie Ra.non in Jim ·vells?

A She does

~o

to tne :Eanch whenever I stay

S"1e ~oes \'Ji th me to serve and.

t~ere durin~

wait on my dinner and we

theday.
GJ;O

baolc

to thetown at ni~nt . We have ~ot a b~~ where we ~o back and
t'orwa.rde.
~Which

county is your resjdenoe?

A Duval. County.
~

Tnere was also an

inveeti~ation

oorxluoted by the Ran?;ere of the

Election Frauds in Jim Welle County wa.en't there?
A

None · t•-iat ! know~ Wllen Jtr• Tian sen went out t"iere--

- I don't care to

~o

into it.

1 just wanted to ae'k you if you

knew•?

A None
~You

tlta.t !

are an

'know; tnere may be I don't know.
off~cer

down

~ere

and you were raised down the1:t?

A Yee born and X'S.:i sed th ere.
O.. Ro\' many

re~istranta
'l~lIE

f11 ed in Duva.1· County?

O!-fA!RMA.N:

J:R. KNIGTtT:

Just wait a moment .
1 wanted to show tl'tat a la.r~e pereent

of the djeappea.red before the day to report and went across the
Bo mer ancl that is w"1at the lla.rusere were tliere for and in oon-

necti on wi.th the inveet:fgat:ion· of the election frauds t11.ey were
tryin~ to detect those slsolters and tiiat the sentiment
Texas State
Library and Archives Commission

was di-

vided• one orowd assist in~ tl1.er11 across tlte Rio G:ra.nd e a.nd the

 otl-te:r. crowd tr.,rirus to ~et t:iiem into the '11.ands or tl-te l
tli e Rarusers and ~reat, and aeoret

ernment.

8111

tltrouqn

service of the ?edieral Gov..

! v1ould like to have some proof of tiiose who were forc-

ed to :rei?;j ate:r and the proo£ of tl-te number of than w'r\o disappear
~

before the t imc came to enli et.

1. n~

on tlte case.

tltink 1 t would '11.:re a bear-

!

d.on' t 'know, 1 t occurs to me that :f. t may •

!

1 t r1otlld ahow animcue and the a ituation down there, it 1 s ex-

t r'cl o rd.l nary.

tlle CoJ1.nn1 tt.ee that that the
nized by the

1~1

on the part ot

T1'lere :f. a 110 question

Tt.TE CHA1RMAU:

Ra~ers

is an

or~aniza.tion reco~

and that the necessity exists for 1te contin-

uance but the question we are

investi~atjn~

conduct of 1ndivmduaJ. members of the

Ra.~er

now is of tl-\e misforce and to

~o

out

into that political field woUld call for proof on the question
ae to the number cf

Re~1strants

who were elaokere and wh.o were

not, and that is to a ~reater extent than we are d~epoeed to ~·

MR. KN!GHT:
:in

T~e

Uo1l'l11ittee has my complete sympathy

thl?&, {'ltnd :r wantea. to conduct · the examination with ciroum-

spect1on; :ff t"iere is some

eent~ment

and order as represented by the

trie,..e triat is

.Ien~er

a~ainst

law

Force arx:t they are es-

sential to a partial preservation of decency it is necessarj'ly
a faot that the lawless element are

a~a1 net

them.

I want tne

Co:nunittee to be advised and I desire to be adYised zqyself because l a.m s~mply see'kjnr, t'1e truth. as to

attack) s im.de th~u~h.

entm•s,

whetlter or not tlrl.e

~enerated by

reason of tne

para

tic:ipa.tion of th.es~ men wl'to are t"'ie ni~"'it errants of ou;.:- civil

ati on and "We been

Viet'

all know,

tion

~rauds,

t~erefo~ore
~ad

known

t11rou~l\out

the entj re history of Texas as

or whether or not it ea.ne a.bout
a~ter

for

tltey were unearthed by

e1~hteen

t~ere ~ad.

tltro~h.

t~em,

there

t"'ieee eleccon~ct

years, as one witness has sta t ed

~e

been entirely eat1atactory--

34f3 State Library
SENATOR WIL1'.IFOiU.;: l'ha.t i e immaterial
Texas
and Archives Commission

unless you aliow

 b~r

some w:i t ness here wliether lie 1 s loyal or-T'ia.t is wllat I waa tryj ne: to 'Set a.t.

!rR. KN1GHT:

I

don't know a.nytlt.i ~ about this witness, wl-\ether 1'\e hae. rel&-

t ives itl'\o hen
ask1n~

~one

across tlle R:Jo Granie or not.

I wae eimi>lY

him about tlie number and T proposed to follow it up with

anp.

1 think a Oerma.ne apertinent question as to whether or not he
'I

himself had an;v blood that ,.,ad
~s

~one

aoroes the R1o Grande, he

unmistakably a W
exican by descent.

C1tizen, ! li.ope he is and a

SF:NATOR W!TT:

one, but the blood is th!re.

Ask him the direct question.
I ltave tli.i a idea, that tli.ere was a vast

rR. KN!G'!.fi':
peroer1ta~e

~od

qe may be an Arnerjcan

of l'exi oa.ns who did

~o

aoross and who were s,.,ielded

Re was elected to office, and, his freinds

by thejr friends.

•

w•re evidently in ma.Jor1ty and the lawless elements in some
of those oountiee may be trie Jrajor:lty and therefore J want
to

~et

to the facts and want to know myself·-it is hie blood--

.

the majority are J1(exi cane • therefore l want to s11ow his sym.
pathy and ltis

to the ejtuation.

a~le

TttE C'qAT Hf.AN':
de~tatdn~ ~oin~

l a.m

~o :l n~

to say to you, you are un-

into a scope that Vie cannot perm:i.t at this time.

MR. lCN!'GH'l': Q, What

peroenta~e

of those c onscrip~ed

disappeared before the tin1e came to enlist?

A

:r don't 'know.

D~

d you co-o:p erate with. the exemption board in tltn.t County?

No

A~ s~r.

Q, rta.ve you any blood relativea v1lto were oonecr:ipted and who

djd

no~

show up who enlisted finally?

A le are two brtbC.b.ers;

! am one of thern and 1 'ia ve

~ot

one bro•

ther and both, we came from J!ex:l can descent and we are :proud of
:i. t but ten times
1 l"J
3 ~~

~

r~o:t..e

qave you any blood

proud t'hat we are Amer:i can Citizens.

~elatives

in Mexico that are

Texas State
and Archives
Commission
by theLibrary
aut~orities
for service?

be1~ so~ltt

 A I h:l. ve one brother:
~

He

s at home td th me and l'ar:t<i ed.

j

Have you no cousin s?

A No Sil..
Q, No relatives at all?

A No sir.

•rtrn

C!t.Aimf.Al'i:

to avo1 d eervjce by

You mean you have a broth.eX' who sou£;ht

~o~ ~

aero so into 1'"ex1oo?

A No ajr, we are two brothers, both live in San

w:f'llinn- to
~

~o

Die~o

and are

to -war if called.

Both liTe in San

Die~o?

A Yes sir.

Q. Ie your fa t'1er dead''

A No he is

livjn~•

.

Q, qo 1r1 lorni; hae he been a res,_dent of t'1a.t County?

A 45 yea.rs .
~

To he a native American or Mexican born?

A ·rte io lfex:i oa.n born.
~

le he a naturalized citizen?

A Yessi r.
Q, Gj ve us t1ie names of the

Ra~ers

you say \Vere sh.ootin'S up t1'\e

town t'hat ni~nt?

A Daniel Hinaj.i>sa and

Geo~e

'ffurst.

Q. '1.~ ve you ever eeen any other Ran£?;e1·e hi tliat county drunk?

A Hone t"li.at 1 know of no &1r.
Q.

1

ra ire you

proper
A No s:ir.
~

ever known of any of th.e others

bei~

'Sllil ty of im-

oonduot~1

! do

not-.

Hurst is the man you say

said he would shoot hell out of you?

A Yes J went to . the Justjce of tli.e Peace ar.d tr5ed to t?et him under bond and t i1e .T us t j ce wae afraid--

3 1,.1..'
... >
.. Tliat is alri~ht. just a.nsuer t.11e question.
TexasA State
Library
andout
Archives
And new
if ! ~et
cf hereCommission
! wish the oomnittee

would

~ive

 me eome protection because 1 kn0iv the man well , '11e

mi.~·ht

<io 1 t ,

or otlierwioe-'I'R.E Ctt.A!Fl'AU:

!e

Hurst l\ere?

Oeor~e

A Yeo he is here.
Q, Te this 1'ex1 can you e-peak of here?

A No eir.

Q. Ye

Hurst on the

Geor~e

.Ba.~er

force at th.is tjme?

A Yee oir he is etill.
~You

say

he is here in Austin?

A Yes he is here in the house.
THE CrtA!RJlAN:
of him;

Just

~o

ai1ead.

Did you ever report that transaction to

l :R. KtTIGTfl':

]

: will say you need not have any fear

the Ad.j utant r:eneral, of November 16th?
A Mo sir.
Q, Or to the Governor?

A Mo Sir.
Q. Stand aside.

'£TtE CHAT.m!A1'1:

Were you subpoenaed

to come here and

testify?
A Yes eir.

You

lJ'R. J,ACKSY:
ni~ht

Of November 16th

w~en

6Sy you were in a barber shop the

this

shootin~

took place?

AYeee:ir.
Q, How do you

know mo lt •1ae doin'!: t'1e sllooting?

A They went just a
through ! went to
boys qho were

Q Somebody

ele~

bloc~
t~e

around me and in a minute when !

place where the

t'ie~e t~ld

ehootjn~

~ot

started and

t~e

me who they were ••

told ycu?

A Yes, wait. a eec;ond and we '1111 o;et to lat; and I went down tol7!1

and the Juot1ce of the Peace to

~et

nim and by the time they

Texas State Library and Archives Commission
o&Dl$ around in

t

11.e car I saw them.

 Q. Did you oee them
li~ltts.

A ! saw the

snootin~?

yea.

Q. You saw the fla.s"l-tes of

~uns·t

A Yee air.
Q. Did you identify the men?
A ~'lie ca.'t'.
~

You i dentified tlte oar?

A Yes.

Q, And a f't erwards aaw t 11 em 5 n there?

A Yee and then some boys came from up town. soared because they

sliot at them and came down loolc1 ~ for me to see about the matter.
Q. Were those men f1.ned, did

they pay a fjne for tl-tat?

.

-' No sir t.hey .did not.•

Mn. ID.TG!1''J.T: Q, Mr. Sanchez did the

Ha.n~ers

ever a.rreet

you"'
A Yeo sir.
Q,

J~o r

wh::i. t?

11

A I went downto tlte
V1ae

there

~ Didn't you

Gamblin~

t~ey oau~ht

houae and tltey were there the time !

me.

propose if they uould let you loose to ~ive away

your friends and others down tliere who were

e-ambli~?

A :Fo I didn't •
~They

didn't let you loose

~he

A '!1':1.ey did not let me loose and

they?

r

never proposed anytltin~ about :lt

Q, T1-tia vtae before Nov ember 16 t'h w~sn' t it'?
A Yee s:1 r .

q,

Weren't you runn:in15 a

~amblin~

ncuse yourself at one time?

A No sir, ! am not•
4, Mot nov.-A No sir never be.fore.

Texas
State Library and Archives Commission
~ You never d:d run a ~amblin~ house?

 A No Sir•
Q, You are

aur e of that?

A l knot7 it .
~

ls your

fat~er

a voter?

A Yee sir.

Q. rta.s he taken out '1.!s papers?

A ! thj.nk li.e did .

Q,

~jret

A I
Q,

or second papers?

~ess

a11 of them, otherwise-•

You don't know.

A No sir ,

!

do know.

Q. He don• t

vote does lie?

A He used to vot,e; he ha.a not voted for about 8 years .

q,

\1hy did he quit'!

A Me lives in ,-:-1m Wells County and he don't 1 1 ke to

~o

fartlte:r

to the votin~ plao~ .
SR'NATOR W!T'l': .
ed

A !t

you , how

lo~

~hen

wae

t~ie

oocaejon that they arres t

wso '.vas that?

was ab out a year

a~o .

Q. Wae llr• Geo . Huret the .Raruser who a\r1unet ed you?
A Yes

ej r .
l~R.

~J'D'NELL:

Tria t v~as before you were in o ff:!c e?

A Yee, before ! was in o ff:ice.

I came in office on

J bel:l eve I stated you before, la.at

.

1 4th,

y~r •

?JR. KNI GitT:

You 1-tive been in Of'fioe ainoe Oc:tober wnat?

Nineteen and

Ei~nteen .

A

~ourteen ,

~

Tell the Committee. wltet"iter or not
~oi.m.

~ctober

now with your

knowled~ea.nd

A ! h.a.d a re1>ort Gambli ng was

15 or 20 days

Gambl i ~

oonaent 9

~o:f h~

i s R:Oing on i n that

'

on and I arrested tliem, a.b ou t

~o .

Q, It is not ~oj nv, on the're openly with your lrnowled~e and conse nt?

A Uo sire, i f I do imlbw I

~o

and

~et

them.

S.EHAT OR WT..~ :
Rave
the Ra.n;sers
Texas State Library
and Archives
Commission

been since October or

 earl i er than tha.t. some members of the force , constantly in ·

San DietSO?
A Yee.
Q. Tfa.v3 you h ea.rd of' t~'lern arre st i~ any p eople for ~amblitllS

other

tha n on thia occasion of your arrest?

A No a i r none

w~atever.

·

~---·---0---------

At t":tis ti.me t1'te Joint Committee recessed until 2
o'clo c k P . :v..

'

-.
)

J }·~ State Library and Archives Commission
Texas

 Wednesday Februar y 5t h, 1919.

The J oint Commi tee
$!;a.te

t,1~

charises

a~i nst

of the

the Sta te

~ouse

Ha.n~er

and

Senate to investi

Force c onvened at 2

0 t OlO Ok I.>. 1f..

A F T E R N 0 0 N S E S S ! 0 N.

R. B. CB.FAGER

havin~

previously been duly sworn t es-

tified before t.rie Commit t l'le as follows :
EXAMHTm Ff MR. CANALES:
~

Mr.

Crea~er

wh ere were you born?

A ! waa born in :Taco ,

Q,

Texas.

Rave you lived in Br ownsvil le or t'Y\at

v1o1nj ty

i n the Va.t ley?

A Si nee I was 7 'yea.r s of a~e .
Q. W'liat

j

s

your profession?

A Lawyer.
~Rave

A !
~

you attended a t St ate Univere! t y?

~raduated

Eeen

at State Univers1ty f n 1900 .

pra.ct i cin~

l aw since that tjrne?

AYes ei r .
~

Have you been 1n

touc~

in our County and the

with the activi ties of

Adjo i njn~

t~e

Ran~er

Force

Counti es?

A r t depends on wl\at y ou mean by in touclt wit'tt tll an·:

course been intimately fam,lia r w:ftl t heir

! '11ave of

doin~s aJ.o ~ t lie

tron-

t1 er, that is the section i n which I have l i v ed.
Q.

~ave

you had ooaeion to observe the i ndividual personnel ot t h is

Ra~ er

force?

A I \\av e.

For how
lon~? and Archives Commission
TexasQ. State
Library

 A Well ever since ! ltave been old
!

~ould

enou~~

to observe such matters,

eay principally sjnce about. for tlie last 20 years.

Q, Wha.t has 'heen the conduct of t11eee men alon~ th.at border?

A !t Vias var:i al l:r. Canales .

''Ve have had a m.unber of tlte f1nes t

men T have ever known on the
~entlemen

r-an.~er

Force,

1-ti~l\

class clean

and fine l'eace officers. On the other ltand a

~reat

many 'V'ho were of the oppos1 te character.
Q, Wl1 0.t lias been tli. e sta11dard of that p e1•sonnel in t lie la.st three

or four or fi "le years ae compared with th.a standard say ab out
10

~rears a.~o?

A lt ha.a not varied so fe.r a.s l know.
a'V\,e~a~e .
~er

Force v:l-to has been dorm tYiere in the recent force wl\o
Ra.n~er

part~oula,i"'

Q. Were you t.he'.1'."e

hav~

force for probably ten years but I cen note

difference in the ave.ra'?;e rnen jn the R:1.rurer i.i'o1·oe

now tlia.n 10 years

A l

speaking now of tl'le

Of course there is quite andumber of men in the Ran-

been on be
no

! am

a~o .

durin~

1915 and 1916

durin~

tli.e bandit trouble?

'!JS.e.

Q, :Oo you mind tell in~ t'1.e comni tteo what occurred th ere

tjme? as

~enera.lly

durin~

tl\at

reported in that country?

A Mr, Canales T 'lt~e sajd many time t'hat t'1e oomuot of tli.e 1'6.n~er

Force and the conduct
"'

or

oertain of the local peace officers,

and in eayin'S that I want especially to except tri e man

s ..,eriff

of Cameron Count.y at tria.t time and wli.o is now Sherif:f

of that County and w'l-to
went d:id

was

W~'\O

so far as l knO\"{ and as current re:port

not participate i.1 i·1'1at I a.m about to talk a.bout, but

tlie oonduct of tn.e majority of t'1.e

Ran~e .re

and of a

~reat

number

of our local peaoe otfi oers, De:puty Sheriffs a.n:l other local

peace officers
worse

wae such as to add fuel to that flame,

t.l'\at bandit condition.

!n fact! bel i eve-- ! know tl'\at

the conduct of tnose officers more
th1 ng caused

t~make

t~an

any

ot~er

one other

trat bandit trouble to attain tf\e dimensions that

t did. Library and Archives Commission
Texas1State

 ~

Will you

explain more partjcularly in what flame, 1n uhat way

they added fuel to the fjre and thejr c onduct added to the

tro.1b1e ratll er tlian minimized it?
A rn t'ii.a way.

'!here were ! should aa:y conservat ively one i,undred,

rnaybe two hundred Mexicans afJlled

arrl jn my

jue~ement

durjn~

that bandit trouble

90% of those k1ll0d were ae innocent as

you or ! of complicity jn those J3andit outra1See .
ma.kjn~ iv'iat

p:re.otjce of

J!R. ~'! ThVELL :

...._

they called

:r beli ~ve

T'1ey had a

BJ.al.'k Li sts •

Do you know that of your own

knovt.l.ed~e?

A I know that they had these 15.ets yes .
Q, You aa.w those 1 i sts?

A I did not see all of then.

l have seen a list and 1 'know that

tl-:tey had them and tliat will not be denj ed ! think by any one
m1r.

"r

·would say l'r. Canal ea a11d

~entl
emen
.

of the C"tnmi
tteee
.

lnr~e

part of tri1s tes-

tliat as you will readily understand a.

t 1mony

alon~

this line must of

neceee~ty

l.a.wyere I want to l et you know 1;'1.at
and it these rulee of evidence are

l'H. CA1"AI;rB:

be hearsay anQ ae a

:r apprec:ta.te tliat faot
jnvo~ed

l wjll try not to

You are tal ki ms about t'ie Black J, i ate?

A ! tlijnlc tliey were called a black list; and the name of a.-qy
l~x~can ~ho

was suspicioned

by

any men of

standjn~

in the

vo.lley or even half way stand:i ~ who would report t""te fa ct tl\at

a certain 1'ex1 oan was a ba.d mexj can

\70U1

d be placed upon one of

tlioae lists and i t was a co:rronon rumor and report, and it was

true, that. in mo st instances that Mexican would disappear.
Q, EYaporate as they call it here?

A If he would learn that hie name was ~•med in his course ot
course would be to take a

retu~e

aorose tl\e river.

If he did

not learn · it-he was usually--he woUld disappear some 0th.er way.

3;;) Q, l~r. Crea~er duri~ that time did you l\appen
Texas mexican1,
State Library
and Archives
Commission
JIDDI mzkilled
or their
dead bodies

to eee some

or

those

of Nexjcans that 1'tad

 been killed; ! refer you more or less to the inc1dent

r1~ht

near.

Ebenezer?
A Jr. Canales! did not see thoee . bodieo.

Tli.e 1oca.l ma.na~er in

chaTD;e of ~eadqus.rters P,ncl three or four of hie men found tlioee

h odj e~ .

You a re referrj t1f5 to 1:.'h e f:fve bodl ea who were found

v.d th em,Pty beer bottl os

sti.'l..ok in tliej r moutlla?

Q, Yee.
A ! d:i d not see those bodj es Tcy'ael f .

Q. Do you kn<r1 of

aw

epec1 f:tc 1nstance of mistreatment or bad oon-

duct of the Ra.~ere of your own personal knowled'Se?

A As an Attorney up until the last few years J pract~oed C~iminal
1..cw1 a11d up untn tlie last 2 yea.rs

number of oases
ib.n~ers

an
Q,

w~ere

there were oompl~ints :rm.de a~ainst the

in an andeavcr either to

inveot1~at1on

had occasion to ~o 1nt".' a

T

of k1111nu,s and

~et

so

Will you mentj on any one of those

j

people out of jail or 1nto
on--yes.

natanoee?

A 1 bel1 eve that Nr• Ca.nal es that tlie mo et, one of t't\e moat outra.~eous

oases of violation of iaw whjch l know in this connec-

tion was perpetrated by Ca.pt. Ga.ndere, his men and some deputy
Sneriffs jn Cameron County.
~

!s i,e now in the service?

A Jfy unders tanO.i n¥; is that

ne

j

s.

~Go ahead and ~elate t~at inc:ident-- it ia very pertinent?
A T 11ere wa.s a. roan by the n11. ne o 'f ea.venio for whom t'tie .Pan'?;ers and

t1ie Sheriffs Depai·tment had a. \.,.arrar.t.

'l'ne man my recollect j on

to cha.r~ed vdtti. Sta.tutocy ra1>e. on a cert.a.:! n ni~ht they went :in
a. ci"..y

1

rack to a 1-\ouze in the outakirte of J-\:rownev1J.le and th.ere

captured ti-tis man. There vr o some four or f:ive or mcybe six, I
don't know t11~ exact number of lb.r~era ·?.nd DiJpt~t.y Sl'\.;:rjffs :f n
t~c nack.

T11.ey cau~ht t 1'1.ia man in ti,is

to\1n w1 t'h ,,im in the 1tack.

T\ie,y were m~t 'by three city police--

Texas State Library and Archives Commission
men on horsehack.

1'\ouse and started :into

Tlie Hack uaa mtncut li~hts , thia wa.s alonq

 probably towards

midn:f.~li.t

or coneiderahly after dark.
~aokdriver

three policement called to ti,e
j t bej~ a~ainet

street wStltout

11~"1.t

to

'flie
li~hts

his

the city ordinance for liacke to be on the

lS.~h.ts

and the reply I don't know but at a.11 e-

vents it wa.s not satjsfaotory and the Police rode in front of
the T{S.ok to atop it whereupon they were fjred upon by those
jnejde of the hack and one of the pol 1cement by the name of
Tor~bio Rodri~ez rr:y

recollection ie was ehot

the

Tlie three policemen at once took

arm and fell from his horse.

Rodri~ez

their heels and ned.

tnrou~h

went to liio home ;;nd v:ent to

bed and sent for i)r. Stell of Brownev:ill e tn'ho treated his arm
!n an honr or so l ater Ca.pt. Sa.nde:rs

ancl put him to bed.

probably three or four of lti s Ra.ru?;e:r: a, two or three anyway a.nd
at lea.st 2 . depnt.y sher.:i ffa, tr1ey being i'a.nuel Saldena and Andres

Ureat1, '! dont t

kn0\'1

wli.ether lie v1as a

Depty S"'ieriff or Ra~er,

my impression is · tliat he had been botli..

was at thj s tjme. le

:r don't knovr what Fie

of t11oe men went to the '1ouae of To:ri bio
:in

t~e ir

hand and fo:roed thej r l"7ay

of the house

~1ome

was one or t'1e ot •·er.

was s creamin&$

am

j

six or s even

Eodri~uez ~dth
:r~1e

nto t"'ie house.

i•ines

«'Oman

took t'rtia man 'lloribio Rodri'Sllez

be.refoot part iel.lly clothed out of bed and started to to;m with
li.im wal ki~.
wallcin~

T'-ii s must liave bt:en close to

After

a. l ittle moret'han a. block f:L•om the i-\o;ise ft'om which. lie

v1aa ta~en

he was shot throug'li the ba.o'k.

One

on e:f th er aide of him ad all of tliem were
I

n11.dni~1'lt .

Ia.n~el' T;as uallci~

to~ether

in one body.·

'Fie wae shot tl\rou~b. tl\e back by one member of the party whom

this man in his

dyin~

declaration stated was this party you

Uresti, the bUll et entered hie baolc under the Shoulder Blade
and oame out in his

c~eat.

seated in the bottom of

3 ,)i" './

~e

was then placed in a city hack

t~e hao~

carried to the County Jail.

witn n1s feet

lia~ing

out and

From the Jail he was afterwards

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

carried to tne City Sanitarium and his people ca.me to me early

 the next

morn1~ a~kin~ t~at

condi t :I on.

1

~et

to h i m 3nd find cu t his

'J'n<y h.ao been forb i dden a.oceao to 'hi m.

! euntnoned

Dr . Lowe who ,.,as then city health o rn c er antl went cut to tl1e
hosp'.f tal and found an armed rnan on
o~cdere

~ua:rd

'\.'Tho sa:i d t ,,,at he "lad

that no one was to be permitted to see t'l-\e man. \'/:it.hout

goi n~ into deta.:il e of what paaaed between ue ,
~oj,n&r.

told h:fm ! wa.s

to see theman, that J vta.a "1:1 e Attorney and that t'l-iG Do o-

tor with me was his phyei c:f :ion and that
7e forced our way paet

t~is

w~

were go:i.n&; to see him.

man and did see him.

dyjnu, declaration, a copy of which ! h~ve.
decl.~ratjon,- this

co~y

jn my own handw:-dtjnis.

t r5ct J,tto:rney ltr•

The

!

from the
?he

lQeber~

~rj~jnal

took hi s

ori~inal

is a carbon wr)tten up from the

Tt ie a typewritten

j

r

of this

Cri~inal- ·

which ! wrcte cut

r turned over to the Dia•

C\r:f~:inal

to endeavor to have these

Ra~ers

~'he S~eriff a f

and Deputy S'ie!'jffs ind) cted fo.r t'11:1 a murder.

tho County at th.at t:f.me was an ex,.ranger, an ex eer~eant of

the

.B-i~ers ,

ancI it was impossible to do

anythi ~ .

They

ooul d

· secure no indj ctment to the best of' my koowl e4~e. no indictment was ever
about it .

~ceturned;

if trie:re \1ae not hi~ was ever done

I do not assert tliat positively;

that some in<lictment vraa returned.
of it•

rt is possible

:r never

If ao

'1ad lcnowl ed~e

No one ttas eve'r pun&ehed for tlti a.
'111en clid ti-iat i:>ccu:::-?

SENATOR W!?l':

A T·1at occurred en Noveir1be:c 11th, 1912 .
Q, You aay o~c of t'l-\oee iren

A Yes

~ ix·,

to the be~Jt of

j

e et:ill 1n tlie

~n~er

Sen:ice today·?

my knowlaclr.;e o.nd :fnformatior., Capt.

nand~ :n: .

Q, DQ you know t.Yie nfln:e of any other

na.n~e1""S?

A ! rlo not 'kno\7 t'he name of any ct.her Ran~era at triat t,jme,
....
t'ie m.il"lea of &.11

\711.0

r knew

we;•e in tl-1e ps.rt.y and the5.r • but their

na.mc$ are not '"'15th me 1irotr•

Texas~ State
Library
Archives
Commission
qave you
ce.me and
5n contsot
~it~ come of t~e

Ranu,ers who nave been

 stationed a.t Brownsville in the la.st year or so?

A Only in a

~enera 1

way.

Q, V/'ia,t ; s t1'\ei r appearance?

A Only the appearance of the
~

avern.~e

Ra.n~er.

Peecribe them?

A. Of course tlte:re is a yariat:ton :f n tlieir p'hysi oal appearance.

They usually
~

a1"e

dressed a.a you ordinarily oee

nam~era

dressed.

Do they carry their pistols?

A Al.wa.vs. of course.
Q, It is liei~

said here t'r1at they don't--do they carry their pia•

tole?
A rt i e universal, to
Ran~er

~un

my

knowled~e.

J canot recall

on the str-ets of nrownoville that 1'\as not

seein~

eit~er

a.

1'li3

:in ei ~11t untier hi a coat vthere :ft can izlery eae ily bee eon

or frequently tliey we:ar t '1ese alio :rt coats vl'l'\ere it can ea.cjly

be seen.
~

Do t1'\ey para.de the streets t1'\at way?

A ! don't. say they parade the streets-- 'Lh EU are on the streets
t'ia.t way.
Q, 1n

re~ards

to the:ir ha.bits about drjnk1

n~.

Jlien 'l'le

li.ad

s a.loons-- of course now'?

A Oh

~es;

the headquarttn-s

of the

Ra.n~~r ~oroe

in Brownsville

were at tl\e Saloons in I3rowneville, pre,otioa.lly up to the times

they would aloae.
before the

alosin~

!

t,,in~ tt~ere

of the saloons

was an order jssued sliortly
forbiddin~

t,,eee Saloons, I am not sure about that.
:! mproTement in tl\at resp

tli e Ran~er Force were

understand

w~en .

16n~er ~oin~

into

I think there was some

ECt, but dur:i nq the nany years my a c-

quaintance with tl'le Ban1Ser fo .r ce

or

a

l\ae existed tlle headquarters

in the Saloons at BrownsTille·

! say hea.dqaarters,

You

1 mean that if a?\Y man want-

Texas State
and Archives
ed to Library
find a Ra~er
he wouJ.dCommission
~o to a saloon to find him.

(

 Q. Have you ever seen them drunk or under c ondi tions tiia.t would

1ndicate that tliey we re under the j nfluenoe of Li quor?

A Oh yea, I saw one instance that !

~ave,

I don't know t'ttat I

could c;jve you i.he name of the indivi dual ·t11at ! have seen
drunk in fact j n most instances

:r do not know tlte na.rnes of

men a.t all. :r know tltem as Rana;ers by their reputations.

t~ese

'l'ltey

and are dressed as suoh but r don't suppose that r

wear

~uns

kt10\'1

pe:raonally

one in ten to have a. p ersona.l aoquaintano~ with

them.
Q, !a it not a fact tliat recently wi th;n the last four

02•

five montltaj

Our cit~r police have h ad a. '!:rea.t dea.l. of trouble in suppreosintS
troul>le and disorderly conduct of Ban~ers in Brownsville, :restaurants and ot'hel''liae?
A I hu.ve t11at by hear sa.y t'hnt they liave h.ad ecme trouble, t''lat
tl!I~
~

'have been drank at a place called

'Floni;o •

Hat h1 t '11c~t '?

A Th at ia a J'exican dance ha.11.

eay

Understand this

is purest hea.:r--

~ith ll'!i:.

Q, What i e a.

tfon~o?

A A 1.rexi can c.lanc e hell.
Q. \Iha t ki rd of claea?

A

T~e

lowest olass .

Q, Were you 1n Brownsville laot week dv.rin~ tlie tin that

:r

unde~­

ntand tliey hiad a ~ree.t bl~ IIBss meet:in~ with re~ard with. what i s

knovm aa the Conalee
J

A

:r

B~ll?

don't know whetl1er J W'd.a :in town 011 t.h.a.t particUla.r day or

not.

:r know of the alledi:r,ed rrnsa meet in~.

Q, ·rre:r-e you tlir?r·J?
A !

wae 11ot.

Q, De you know tlie si?.e of t'1at meetin'1;, wr.ether it '-;-as a repre-

~f,(}

eentn.tjve m~etin~ o~ not?

Texas State Library
and Archives
Commission
JrR. NJGHT:
He says he
\13.S not t"-1.ere.

 IfR. CANA:i.ES:

From hGarsay or oth.erwj Ge, from conmion

report?
Probably Jtr. Ca.ml.es you h.ad better

THE CRA!Rtf,A"ri :

let someone who t7as th.ere tesfify?

Do you knooof anybody trnt waa t'1ere?

J! H• .CJil>l'AJ.].'S:

'l'lie Gent1e1m1n says that he was not

'l'TUJ CRA!RPJ'l1.N:

Suppose .vou ~et someone t11at vra.~ tliere and let's ~et

tlriere.

ti-i rou~'li v!'.I th th.is •

Do you know tlie

lli'R. CANAT.E8:

sentiment in Browns-

ville today with reual'd to th e Ra.no;ers , t.lie a.ttf:tude and well-

there or not they should be piaoed under bond·
Q, ! tr<:Ul d cay t,hf"...t a very 1 ar~e percenta~e of t'he Fopulation beli eYe v

jn

keepih~ t'1P- Ran~er

ali.ould be s1,:rict

foroe jn existence but believe that there

re~ulat:foris

a.no. strict reat.rainta t'i.rown about

tli.em, such as h ave not existed in t '1e past.
Q, '11th i-e~ard to the bond feature? J~r. Crea.~er a.e to wheth

not th.nt fea.tu:!'e should

~o ~n

ec or

in o ltle:t• to restrain tltem from

unlawful a.eta?
A Tlii s

matter has been u:p only a. compa.rati vely slio:t"t time, and to

say J know t'1e sentiment of the oommuni ty of triat pa.rt1 cular
rea.ture would be 11ard..

js tlt:l.t , well ! would
undoubt~dly

:r

can only ~ivc you my opinion on it

~ave

to r epeat what l 88.id a moment

a~o.

a ~reat majority of our citj?.ens think there sl\oul.d

be s~r~n~ent restrjctions a nd ro~1~tions and amen~ those wit~
whom ! l'\a.ve t.aJ. ked t11e eent:Iment

Lu ia pract 5.cally unanimous

that th.ey sliould be pl a::ed under a reasonable bond•
Q, Do you thin'k tlla.t would destroy their eff'ici ency?

A It 1ould to a certain extent
f'jo case;

~C

!

A

ran~er

meeto a man

th~

well and rj

din~

horse;

~e

is out

rr.

Cana lee. Let's take a speci-

lookin~

for a lto»•• theif and l\e

fits the deacription of, that he

llas no one at tlie time for this man.

and

fairly

a horse tliat fits the deoor:iption of t"ie stolen

Texas State Library and Archives Commission
tomary,

~as

indeed

alon~

tne border it is almost

Now it is cusnec~ssa:ry

 t'hat they

ha~re

a cert.a.in amount of la.ti tude in deta.i.nin15 t.11.a.t

man. row 1 cnnoee t'liat a bond

r,n t'tte otii.er 11and if t'1er.e ia

man.

ta.l J>rjnciple
~o

mi~llt

11ave the effect -from re-

acyt"iin~

in tliF..t fundamen-·

t1'\dt it 1.a b'-E?tter that ninety 11ine

~til'f.y

men

free than tha.t one innocent ma.n surfer that is not a. real

obj ect1 on.
~

rs

it not a fact that under the law today you can arrest a pe.l'-

oon on ausp:!.cion when you ha.ve rea.acm to b-elieve that the culpr1 t vri 11

A

T~1at i

~So

and

lii t1iout a wa.rro.nt '! mean?

eaoa~ e,

e the law,

yes sir.

really it ia not objection:-t'ble unlcas i t is an exceptional
~xtraordinary

A ! <io not t"tink

C9.se?

t~at

with. a level minded :pea.c4! oftjaer a bond

v;ould aerioualy t-ia.n<lica.p lt1a
t~xtent,

but 1 think t.l-te

actjvi·~y.

rt would to a

c~rtain

evil 0£ bei ~ v!'.1. th.out l1ond and suclt

i a etra:t nin~ innuenaea or ~reat.er i.h.an if tliey were placed

under t"t\at restrraining influence by
Q. ! will ae\.: you if in t"tiat country

ot'ttertfiEe, does h.is duty, he ia

be)n~

placed under bond.

when an officer,

bac'ked by

t~"le

best

:Fa~er
8lem~nt

or
in

that c omrnu11:i ty':,
A Ho doubt about that.

'.i'a'ke f.:ttch men a.c Capt.

a man tliat is universally loved.
He :ta one of the

:in 1'exae.

lti~ltest

Tfo tras a.

·aria.

11e

"t7e

opera.t~d alon~

is respected and

Q. no you remember the time that r ·11·.a

ther~.3

th.nt border anrl

clans pea.ct} offi ci:Jrs

:ran~er

proo 'hl.y twenty yer..ir& and

a1on~

Hn~'1.ee,

sup,po:ctin~

Yia re

i a

res~ectcd.

ever '\i,;'ld

tl-\:\t bo.rder for
l-ti~"11.y

re~ard~d .

i,jm for S'!ierH'f

of my County?

'H">

t..-U • .,

A YeBBi:t•.

Q. Do you ever

~1a.ve

oc<.1a.sion to '$0 to ",.atamoras?

Texas State Library and Archives Commission
r:r. Fl";~GHT : l"'ay l>t, please t"ie Comrn1 ttee,

! hope you

 you vr:fll marlc tlte :injection into the
political a f:f'iliatjons.

proceedin~s

we

a matter

!J.:, :ia

t.'1 :f :n~ to :i nt. roduo E: in co ntra.di ct 1 on .

! hope he will

~o

r:.r. Canale•

"'1.av.e

some-

no o b.i eoti on to it.

'1.~.,re

farther.
! a.on t t

OA}TAI.ES:

Mi?.

I

th~t/m~1.y

of

T1{E CRA'."RfA:M:

rr.

CA!':AI.E:.:

·.~H.P!

CK.AJR?:AlT:

you auppo rted Capt.

una.e:reta.tld.

Go ahead.

:re he

Just

Ru~h.ee

mak!n~

a 11 ttl e

1nre~ard

spe ec~

out t.l\ere?

to your proposition that

for Gl-ierfff' at

one time.

rR. CA TIJ..ES: J.fave you occa.e:i on t.o a;o into :?fexi oo,

l'etamome on your -oro:fessj onal business, soc:i.ally or on busi nees vr:I th retr2.rd to intercourse between b

I!

two si dee , fr,endly

sjd ee?

A Yea ! am vrell. acquainted in }.'ata.moraa and alonQ'. the 1"exican

no :rdl?r, t.h e loyrer from.ti er.
~

Yl'liat :i a trie r eel in&?; tlia.t t1iose people l-\are t.cvnrde ue on aooount
ou tra.~es

of varjoue

perpetrated on

N~xica.na

artl ],texican p eople

of texican descent and tlie fa.ct tl\.'\t t:1e cUlprits '11ave never

been

brou~l-tt

to justice?

?JR. KNIGHT:

J don't lcnovi

Ythether you care to let this

al pro:po x•tions or not.

·r11m
tory

investi~a.tion

of t"rle Committee

ta.ke on intel'nation•

We 1-\a.ve no ob.j ectj on.

I th:i n'k i t :i e c over:in~ a

iar~e

CJ.11.TALES;

Before you rule on that you will see

pertinenoy of this matter.
SET:TATOR P.NJE:

:U.r.

Crea~er

is your 111itness.

suppose tha.t the Adjutant General's Department and the
·1

~({

terri•

Ju~e.

J~t:..
t~e

C'ffA!IC"AN:

~entlemen

Force iiave been advised of tlle fact that you were
find cut what the

~oino;

1 don't
n:a.n~er

dOMl. to

op1nio~e are in Mexioo and consequently 1t

Texas State
Library and Archives Commission
you J'l!'OVe by J!.r. Crea~er th<1t in llexi,co t,,,e.t

\\e ltas found peopl e

 hostjlc to tht? poeple of Texas a r.d

t~1e

th~,it .

tliese peo"Pl e be able to :refute

ReNJe r force 'iow woul d
Tl1ey

d not 1-i·we an

\70U1

opportunj tJ, cc-m::isquently it ic not jn line fol' you to

~c

into

] t.•
},' H.

an<l Senator

GAUAT..J.~S:

ttr~t ~ 1re

! t ":a.a on t'h:l o account Mr. Cltai rman

a.nawer we neo e as::ir1ly

O.l't~

a. border country

t11 Qre a.nd we have our neit;libors across the :rlve:r that in 01·cler

to keep peace on t'l1i s side 1 think tiiat--.Tud?e

Y.ni~ltt

"'1ae made

liia epeec~es , pe~hapa I "ou~ht to be permitted to make a few.
Tt.t.E cu.A:R!:A.N:

You are

out cf our jurisdiction

~ettin~

a.nytvay .

(r. Creager '1ave you seen t. 'ha.t piotu-re?
( 'fanda ·:-ri tne~s a p'li.oto~rap'l't vrhi ch wi tnnas exa.mi nes)
A Yee.

Q. 1ta.ve you ceer.

c:l1•oulatod jn the C"ity

jt,

of" Texas Unj t.ed r'tates of
A '.f t v.'f:t.s sold 't'1'tlerever tl'1ey

Arrier:ic~ ,

of 'Brownt:v5.lle , State

h ave you\>

t1iese picture po at card a in Browr13

se~l

ville .
Q,

Wh~t

effect dj d th.at li:J.ve on tl-\e l'ex:f oan popula Mon in Browns-

ville,

thooe pictures?

!n. Kl:!G?.IT: r don't ,,.nc ' no ':1,

:

don't underst nd nt'W

tt:.mt J<r . Ci•ea'Ser liae qualified as an expert on

F.1~or

mortue i\nd.

thin'!;s of that. sort or anyt""iirll5 about P1ir4s cf tliut k:ind or not

rt eeems t11at er-me of t'1e
·r~J1

of

·~l-tose

C't:i. :rrotA:li:

piotu·res

,.,.. (' r:

)

Fox

t~1ere.

you undertal-"e to say thnt e:i Jt11er
I~n~e:i.•

a. 1nm in 1.})e

Servj.de'?

Yes and aot't'le of t'1em 1'\;:i.ve been d:fsc'l-\ar'~

One nar11e 5 a en tl10 1 i ot or

JR. CA:iA..TE8:
t., )

~'Ti 11

re~·resent

HR. i.;A,U'>iJ •:S:

eil .

boyo 'lia.ve oome dead men

~3pec:f nl

B.ang-e:ca .

! t i s ··n t'1ere, and the other :f s Capt .

who w; :; d: :ac'l-ta.rved on ac:c runt of 't\i s brutal i ty by t"ie Ad..

Texas State Library and Archives Commission
j utant Gene:i--a.l .

~,,.ayb.; the

.djutant Gen13ral ;11.11 recotSnize t riem.

 GENERAL 1tA.Rr.J<..Y:

T

cannot. reool!n! ze a;py of t1ien exoept

<.:apt. "&'ox.

FR.
:rreGent:I

n~

Va.tea and

~T!OT.JT :

!

wonde~

a poet deP..th scene of
a ~reat )l'lany

ot li.era

MR. CA~AL·r.-:s:

if there is any ph.oto~raph.
}~r.

do\1n t

Well a or Commi ss:i on i::r

liere.

No1r ~rou say ti, cse :pictures v1ere sold

an Po at al Ca. rd e in :Bro·,,."11avi1 le/.
A Yea s:i ~.

Q. !t wa.e dur:i n~ t1ie t :im3 of t,, e bandit t:r-b:0b~e wafl i +, not?
re~ard

ef'fect d:ld t'iat i,2,re t1ith.

What

with. plaonti"la; the band:Jt

t.ncmble or inc:i tinP;: tli ~ bandit t.rou'hl e?
?"R. KNJ'G'tl'r:

very ind:l acrt!!'et,

Ju st a. moment.

t'h.in~.

cornmerciali~ed witli

have

been a

It rnay :l.llustrate ":.lie mo i'bid condj ti on

on the border, but unless i t

waa

Thu tmi~ht

j

o s'1own t'liat t.lie DJ.n'Sc.r Service

buaineeo ! do not t1ijnk it 1a pertinent

'1ere.
SEN'ATOn PAG1~

r11iat do yo11 t'1:fn'k about them :permittinq
a:ttua.t~on?

ti,etrr ;pictures to be ta.ken :in tl'ln.t
YR. nT:rG-;:rT:
~"OU

'know as muc'1 nbou t.

THE C'qA!R!!AN:

I t'1:f nk t i-iey did tremenduously
t.l1e

tfron~

but

s.1 tuatl on as you w5.ll evar know.

I am

~oin~

to

~ay

thjs; The fact of

t"1ese p:l otur!?S h.a-.r:f n~ been 2m.de, ,,.,he th er or not t'1ey reprasent

811Y of the

Ban~e~ ~orce

wiIJ be

le~itimate inqui~J

but ae to

wli t 'Mr.. Crea.~ers op:i.ni on mj P;ht, be a~ to the :p;ro'bably effect

on the "tiorder

or on any of t"lie inhabita.nt.e of tliat country,

r do not tlii.n'k would be proper.
l•R. D!Ol.fT:

In order to abbreviate ?patters as :t un-

derstand. it , everys one of tlleae men have been diooltar~ed and i f

't ,. r.

vOJ

they hare not

be~n disohar~edt"liey

he i s lcrx>wn.

We h.ave seen that pi oture a.nd you liave seen it

will he harpooned as soon as

"

and wlty waste t ime.

Texas State Library
Archives
Commission
1m. and
CANALRS:
I beli
eve Jud~e 'kn1v"tt

sl\ould not be

 '
pend tted
to make a speech every time ! ask a question.

I be-

1 i eve he ouc;h.t to 1)e r.onfi ned to tlte rules of .maki nR; obj ect5.ona
an'~

not be permitted to make a apeech about these imperial kniq;ltte

t.11at 1'le epeake ahout. every t1 me.
mtAJ'tlfi~T :

'J1HE

~""e

ohaerve t.'-1e rules.

They a.re both ex:perjenced men and. can
c~vd

~usta.jns

r

your obj oot :i on to the

quec:tio n as asked.
l' R. CAJ'.TAJ.ES:

Q.You stated tlieee pictures were

lar~ely

circulated jn Ero\"ITlsVille and vic1n i ty?
A 1°hey were on sale at puliJ j c post card star.de in Browncv:ille

•

Q,

B'ave you seen

one :in the Ner!spapers?

A l do not reoaJ.l seein.t', one in ti1e newspapers , there mi-<s'1t have

been.~ Do you 1•eco~nize a.ny one of t11oae men in there?

T'11 s

1s an enlar~ement tltat 1 made of the same picture. (Exhib i ts in
J.ar~e Pj_o ture)

A I 'know two of tho ae men. the one onth.e l.eft and t1'\e one on the

4' llame

tli em pl ease•/

A T~'le one on the. i eft is a ~nser · ! tl-tink, ths.t is .1!'ox.
on tlie

ri~ht

ia Tom Tate wh.o was rqi£ed in Drowneville.

Tlie or1e
Tlie one

in the middle ! don't know.
Q. rsn' t

Tom Tate a d

~

now

O!'l

th.e

l\an~er

Fo1·ce and 'las been on

t~e Rl.n~er 2o~ce?

A Yea he hae been.
:Ril.nqer or Spec:i:.tl
t1F~oetJ:,

t'hat he is

eit~er

a

nov.r, but l rath.er would not

a.nm.~1er

tlitl.t .

!t is my
119.n~er

'!!Afir,li!Y:

und erstandin~

! wiJ 1 state a l s o

t'h~

s is not the l i st

of Special ~ i t t l:ca now, but special .Ra~ers that were.
all di sch:re

1'/B S 1

January 1st.

T'1ey were

&"ox ha.sbeen discltar~ed. , "vao .die-

cnn.r~ed 1 ed and si .

3{)(

....mty a f fairs weJt.E~:

Ac soon ns I f ind t-:-ie be.d men they a l ways

For quite a numberCJc~iarged.
Texas State
Library and Archives Commission
tween tli.ese

factio~.

 Q. ! asked ~rou !?het'1.er tlie pic·tures, ao you find t11 an in that

:picture, 1 a t}iat not tlte a·;:.tj tude li.ow
rjnin~

th.eir horses and

wal~i~ the

OE}?E RAT. HART, 1Y:

Q. !

oa~,

lan~ere will

tli.c

~a

street

Vfil l yo u ocnfj ne

i;o out

you fin d t~em now?

you rs elf to tlte

now; isn•t tllat th ey way they vrear thei:.i." pistols?

A Yea.

Q,

-:.' n. KN!G'R'l':

Al ways h ea been, and since

you were a.

c"1Hd. '

t'on jn ord er.

We are

~oin~

\'Ja.nt to 'he unki nry. about the na tt.e1·, t '11 e
1

l don't

t o ins i s t tnat y ou do so.
o fen<.1~rapher

ca n ·only

rrj te after on~ man at a t. :ime wh:ll e Vr. CEl !1ales is conduct in~

tlie exe.m:fnatjon.
A

Anfl~ter1.n~

your. que-atio n l':t"• Gra.na.J es, 1 eay it is a fairly ty..
Han~e:('

picn.1 picture of tlie

cut on tfox-sebaok today or at .any

time dur:in~ the 1 ast 20 years.

:r don• 1. mean with a rope around

a mybcdy.

Q. Do you kno v; wlo\etl-ier

a

p a.rt in t'1e election
~R.

KN!G~T:

r not the Rana:ers r:tav e taken an ·acc·t.Irate
intimidatin~

!s

votero?

t~ere ~ny ch~ r~e

ves 1 the

oover that too, but

c~~r~es

vr~ ~Mlll a ~ aslc :Mr. Crea.P.er to teat i. fy to 1i:f

of that kind?

R

own lcnowled~e.

A We h a ve a\l wn.ys comp]!.a.i
nt of tria. t 'A"r. Ca.nalee and my om 1cnow,
led~e
~i

of i 1 t .o,'Oes to tli:f s , ti-11t on elect; one. 1 v1ill have to

ire you a. ::i,1 ttle e;,::planation tliere posaibly.

years

tli~re

!for a. nwn.ber of

. was wliat was 'known a.a t'lie inde pendent pe.rty,

controlled. a .nd st.ill oontrol 1 s th.e City of Brownsville.

1t
The

County affairs w~~re controlled l'.iyl tlie loca.1 democra.tj c ma.chine.
~7
3 0"

r

'!:!or quite a numb er of

~rf'.a:ra

the:re was a. very bitter fiisnt on be-

Texas tween
State tliese
Library
and Archives
Commission
:factio:is
a.nd ! will
say t"'iat

co nt1nued until

w•.D.

 J:d!lfton bec::.me Ch iG:f'

_o.f "Polioe of t'1e City a.'ld ,.;. Ii' . Yann h e-

ca.."'I!e S'l-ter.; f f s.nd from t'1a.t t :J me fo:rward those cond:itoris cease d

to e:x:jste a.nd t'ic
+,\70 bod.i.~a

fr~endl i eat

cond:itic·n t:xi at no\f

betwe~;n

tliose

of pe;J.ce off:l cers but up t.o tlio.t t i me tiie Ra.nv;e;ce

J ectiona around the p oll in~ pl n.o ee .

Tlie ef'fec t of Duch ue e be·

ing to j ntiruidate oppoa1ng votern.
Q, You 'V"Ve be.:n around · t '10 Ge el ectj on o yourself?

A T have al,S"a.ys for year$ taken a very nct::·... e inte 1•eot in t l-tem.

A "! hllve.

Q. J)"lt:ln't. '.'rou sc•wet.:ime 1-t~.tve some vrords i.1it.h th1.:·m i r.. order t.o hol d.
t.''1el'l1 j n checi< from vj 01a t :ion of t'-1e 1 a.w?

never t'liat J

q~n

r.ec oll wt of been i'hreatened o r

~. eyth.1 ~

of

t11at 'k:i n<l 1,ut J h.ave had '1"'.fOX"lo w:l th. them, prote s ted al$aj nt>t t ltetr

conduct, around t'1e pol ls and so on.

A Yee, I was horn in
Q,

1-£0\1

\~'a.co .

1 on'7; h:ive you knO"'n Capt. !!a neon.

of 15

year~ .

Q, He has 1Jeen a peace o ff':i cer a

iar~e

.rc r t.:ion of t''la.t t:ime :i!"l Tex-

aa?
A !

k?tel.'!

r1i:w•
'"' -".

C·1baeqttently au Uni ted Stat eo

n;er

,::" (,· ~

t~

'a:r.-01'\all e.nd then a.iain :f n th.e

eer-ri ce .

o '11 and 11a.s been all the yeare of

~rour

TexasA State
Library
and:.}3.ra
Archives
Commission
You 1.,, ea.n
t'-le a:pp
1ce of t'-tern?

rec ol lection?

R9rl

 Q

The anpearsnce of them, yes?

nractically as it always

has been?

A

Summer time in the warm weather

wh~never

they have their

coats off.
Q

The costume is just as they have , as it always has been

· sinae the days of

Capt~in

~ave

HSNes?

A

Yes, since I

known anythinr, about it.

Q

Back to Captain Hanson: Are you acquainted with his

\ '

*

..

co11duot of the various places of trust that he has filled and

his efficiency and devotion to the public interest as to being a
peace officer and an offic <' r of tho government?
A

was

Yes; I was first U.

u. s.

s. Commissioner

while Captain Hanson

Marshal. I subsequently became collector of

while ho was U.

s.

ousto~a

:!arshal and consequently was thrown fairly

,,

intima.tely in touch with him off.toial during those years.
Q

Vlhat is your opint onow of htm as a man and as an officer

and as a ca-ptain of tho Rangers?
A

I regard him highly.

(~

Is he or not a man entirely devoted to duty?

A

I hsve . so found.

Q

And controlled by a high sense of integrity of purpose?

A

Thet is ~y b~lief, !Ir. Knight.

I don ' t think Captain

Hanson is an angel by any meens, and ! think he is one of the
beat men that he.s been connected with tho Ranger

de-p~:rtment

1.n

a greet many years.

Q

A man must not be too angolia to fill that positton,

must be?

36"9

A

Ifo. sir.

Q

If he was you would not wsnt him? A good many of those

matters to whioh you have deposed antedated the present aam1n1stration?

Texas StateALibrary
and Archives Commission
Ye !'J ~ sir.

 ..
Q

Both of Capt ain Hanson and Gone r al Harley and even the

present Governor?
A

Yas , s i r .

Q

Has there or not been

percepti ble impro vement in that

very e ssential department of the e ov e rnment si noe the regime
of General Ha rley and Captain Hanson?
A

I am inclined to beliflve there has. I want t o say

furi.;her i n that connection. now, here again of necessity a l arge
part of my knowl edge is hearsay, and yet i t ia such hearsay as
will enable any reasonable man to form a just opinion.
Q

Yes.

A

It is my understanding that CRptain Hanson, for instance,.

since he hes been connected with the Rangers

hAS

been one of ·

the prime causes of the discharge of a whole Ranger company
which perpetrated some outrage i n West Texas. I have had
numerous conversations with him e.bout the Range r s and the ir
activites s i nce he has been connectaa with the Adjut ant General ' s department and he has expressed such

~entiments

as lea d

me to think that he has the right ideas about the handling of

tho Ranr,cr for ce .
Q

And you beli eve he will do 1 t?

A

I do. So f c.r as any man ts ab l e to. The great trouble

is, he is not actual ly over the men l:ho are in the field .
Q

Ther e has alw3ys existed more or. less turbulent c on-

ditiono al ong that border
A

do~~

'

there?

There han been more impressions among the average

Texans along tha t subject,- upf"'to the time

the J.texio an r evo-

lution started there was never a more ft1 endly people on earth

t han the Mexicans
on
'
. t he Mexi can side o:r the r,_ver ano. the
Ame ricans on t he American s i de. The Mexican au thori t ies cooper ated
"1 •
!

tJI

0.

no

re ~e

freely with the Ame ric an authorities and there was
on either side of t h e river because if a Mexiasn

Texas State
Commission
went Library
to t hat and
aideArchives
of t he river
they l'iere

arreste d t here . We

 had no such condi.t i on as d eveloped t here dur ing thEt bandit
outrages an n t he only thing that permittoii the bandit outrages

,·

to de velopo res the fact th~i. th~ t o oo~erntion between t he
I

,X.

'

\

authorltiea on the t wo sides d:id not :e:xib.ot.;·: our l .ocrn.l, pe~eo
.
officers f.ollcmea. t!:lo wrong r>ol.icy of trying to te rro~l ze ·the
I

j

•

·,

•

\· ~

'

Mexic ~·ns. locnl ponce c1i'fi cors end Hang ors -particu l r~rly ,

j •

.\

I

l;

~ryi.ne to tor rortze the Mey, icen -ponu l ctton on our s:l ae · of the
.. ' '

. . • ' /I

,"

Tl v~r and int tmidat ed them, and :s a a r o 3ul t the ·!~exic ans

'\'1

11

I

\

6¥1\

, ·-

~{·

tl"e Me"X"ican s1.de become very i ndignant and they i;;ot

to the \ , ~ ·

">Oint fi:oally where the general i n command, Gene.ral

Naferatt~\

w3s

~ooporating

hed

3

'::ith those ·cor s sir..r, the river.

tho11~~nd l!en;;ers

We

" ..,r .

~ight ha~l ~

in Cameron County without stopping

(

\

those o J.t~:.ges . The only . .,vs~r they 7,e re sto1med wa s a l ot o:f uel:

get to gethcr and having a conf e rence witn tho offici als of the
Cnrru11za governi:.lent and Genera l Carrauza

anc. Gcn~ral Carranza

sent hts own nephev:. Col onel Rico to i:nko command there and they
I

bagan to cooporat o with us and there was no ot her raids across
that rive r.
Q

Since the 1 ·~voluti on aguine t Di az uta r ted tho re has been

r.iore or less turbulen"'ii conditions'?

A

Yes , there h nve.

Q

That is i n connection with Inter nAtional complications,

the re has always be en more or 1ess complications from a ~o11tioal
s t:m dpcint?
A

Yes.

Q

Your loca l

situa~ion

as t o peace off i uers i s very much

i mproved?
A

Thnt is as good as any in the State of Texas.

O.

'L'h at has evolved through a long prooess and has recently

been obt ained?
( ......
3 ,...1

A

Ye s , si.r.

Q

A process of i mpcrvement along the lines of humanity

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 has taken charge of the Rangers now under Captain Hanson ' s
administration?
A

I would not say that.

aame type of men in

t~c

I tn1nk you have largely the

Ranger service

no~

that you had ten

years ago and until you devise some means of

thro~ing

a res-

traint around their operntions, these young men, hot bloode d
young fellows without muoh educl\tlon, men who are willing t o

go out and risk their lives for forty, ~if'IY o~ sixty dollar s
a month and lead the klnd qf lives they do, are not the type
of men you want to entrust the lives and nropertics of the
citizens to nithout throwing arouna them· some safeguard. We
would be infinitely bettor off without the Ranger force unless
you ha'7e sor:io restraint thrown around thot1 that will protec t
the citizens o:f the State more than it ~ has in the last twenty

.......

years.

Q
thB t,

You take the type of red blooded young ~ellow like
are they, or not, about the only type we c~n get that can

contend with· those conditions down there, that have a reckl ess
disregard of their

°''i'll

v:ell being, and so forth, such as to

successfully contend with conditions
A

do·.~n

there?

Mr. Knight·, I think by very rua terially increasing the

pay Of the Ranger force you z10;1lc1 get a better class of men on

it.
Q

The pay would have to be cons1aerably increased, houldn't

~ake for instance, Col. Slocum v;as on the stand; I beli~ve

it?

,.

he seia he had four or five thouscnd men aown there and he aould

not accomplish the same results with hio four or five thousand
that was accompl ished by the Hangers; they have military discipli?\'
and all that and he confesses his inab1 li ty to cope >.' i th the
situation, and the .t<angers could?

3'/')
•

..J

.A

Don't get me for a momont as saying that the Rangers

have not done many good things. I don ' t want to leave that

Texas State
Library and Archives Commission
impression with the Committee 9t all; but in the main, there

 being no restrai nt about them has oauaed them to do such a multitude of things I actually

beli~vo

they· have dor.e more harm on

that frontier sinca the years ' of my boyhood thnn they have Rone
good , hcvo done more to etir up trouble th3n to stop it.
Q

You think their reign down there in the l es t t·rent y

year s hes done more harm than good?
A

I actually think that to be true.

Q

Are you in i"avor of ubolinhin6 thetG?

A

No , sir. I am. no t . I thlnk a police force lbi tha.t

kind is probably still necessary in Texas, but it 1a up t o the-

wi edom of this Leglclature to throw such restraints about t hem
even at the e.x-penae of somewhat han.Cl icapping their effici enoy ,

to throT uuch restraints ebout that as \rill -protect the citizens.

If

the~

cannot do that they had bet t er abolish them.

Q

You S8Y there is two factions down there in polit i cs?

l\

Pardon me, Mr. Knight ,- ·we used to have

a fight on .

bct'\\ecn v:hat we called the Jim Wells orowC: do7m thore and the
o-pposltion crowd ,- now ;. :t,at ftght hes gotten around to a point
where we have gotten a 1ot of pretty s &tisf actory l ocal of ficers
in on both s i des, both city and county, and it is about over.
Q

Hov.: about any other counttos down there?

A

Now . then the fight now, I am very glad to say, h as

gotten into the ranks of you Demoorats and we Republicans oan
sort of etaud on the side lines and watch you scrap.
Q

U..r. Canal es asked you about the Ranger force down there:

On wM.ch side did Mr .. Canales ally himself. wi. th?
A

Hr . Canale s was ori ginelly with what we called the Wells'

crowd.
Q

Jus t one question there :

Di d the Wells ' crowd,you think,

ever in any way intercede, request or by indi reotion o1a1m the
pr eaenae of any of the Rangera at any of the polls 1n the last
'J ... ')
u i ,,

t wenty- -

Texas State Library
Archivesand
Commission
A Oh, and
constantly,
all the time.

 •

Q

At v;'h ose i nstance Y"'Ot<.l d the Hant;ers be e-:; those p olls?

.i\

At the i nstance of ei tho r J:idge \\'ell s or s ome of h is

l ieutenants. I v.a.nt to say . this in fairness, I see nhat you are
driving at. I ,-.- 111 say it in fair 11oss and ±'rankness , since I

have

kno\~n

Hr . Canales he has been an op-ponent of the Hangers.

~.TR .

c ".H..:\r.&s: You m'e an an orrponent in which ws.y?

A

I mean that he did not approve of their oond:u.ot and aats ..

lie has so stated to me .
·Q

Has that been constant, the constant attitude of lir.

Canales'?
A

Yes, I think so, I have hesrd him orittoize them time

and again.
Q

Do you know tl.c. Canales ' sttl tude v.-1 th r o:ference to

Captain Hanson in the last few years?

A

Mo , I do not .

I have underst ood that he has had aome

differences wi th Captai n lianson but the details of those dii'feron~es

Q

·r am not acquainted with.
I wi 1 1 ask you to state, .lr. Creage r, if the Ranger f oroe,

since the l ast eleotion, have not acted down there 1n the matter
of an attempt to unearth supposedly election irr egularities and

frauds?
A

They have. The Ranger force has been very active duri ng

the laet three or four or five

~on~ha,

probably in connec tion

with thi a Gla sscock- Parr oontoat.

Q

The ourrent ha s r eaohed the capitol here now. I w.i. 11 ask

you to sta te if IU- . Canales or any of hie crowd ever msde you an atta~k

on the Ranger force,

a . ~ublio

or r aganized effort, such as

t hi s is , prior to that election in November?

A
....:~ ·,·· J_

I do not think such a fight as this, such a contest a s

t h is--! don't think "fight" is the word for 1t,has

ever ari s en

Texas State
Library
and Archives
in Texas
before.
I have heCommission
ard ~fr. Canales from t he pl atform

 in public speeches in Cameron county oondemn the Rangers and ·
their conduct.
Q

Do you understand Spanish?

A

Yes. I apcek it nearly es well as I do English.

Q

Those speeches Ur. Canales mde in Spanish or English?

A

In both;

we would have Ma'!fioan audiences and Amerioaa

aud i ences .
Q

You spoke of a unhappy instances in which Ca·ptain Sanders

was in company with certain local officers ; that was a number
of years ago?
A

Yes .

By the way , I woul d like to leave wi th this

Committee that copy of this dying declaration.
I would like to introdu.ce 1t i n evidence. Also

:dR. CAlULRS:

those pictures i n evidence.
THE CHAIRLIAN: Do you care to read that, Mr. Creager?
I w:i.11 j.o so.

MR . CREAG:X.:

THE CHAIRliAN:

You may resd it in .connection wi th your

testimony.

DYING DECLARATION
of
T 0 R I B ! 0 R0 DR I GUE Z
read in evidence

by

Mr. CreAger.
"Brownsville, 'l'exas .
"Nov. 12, 1912.
"2: 55 F . 11.

"I heard a shot and went near the

~res

Puentes , end

there was Guadalupe and Santos, poliaomen. All very dark.

Soon a carriage oame, its light being out. I told them to
light the lamps. They went on. The occupants of the haok
said they could not light lamps. Cursed me. I heard shots,
one of whioh knocked me off my horse. They went off and I
went

,......,. ....

,i ' ')

home.

my arm.

The only wound I then received being one in

I then went to my home, I fell. Dr. Stell saw me

Texas State Library
and came
Archives
there. They
to myCommission
house. They were washing the wound

 with Turpentine. I then went to sleep, barefooted. Then the
Rangers ana

~nuel

Saldcna, and

And~es

ca~e.

Uresti

They

e;ot me out of the house. and then one o:f them shot me in
t he beck. I think it z.ras uresti. The Ca-ptain of the Uangere
said that if I did not have enough with that to die, they
would give me more• A£ter 'th"'t they took me to jail,in a
haok, -putting me on the slie:o of tho coanh, I seated in the

of the coaeh with my feet on the stop. The shot

~iven

me

through the back was given after they took me from the
house. When Dr. Stell examined me I only had the wound 1a
goi~g

the ar•n· I understar,.d and hellove I am

to die .

his
nToribio- x Rodriguez"
mark
rr.;; i tne sse s
"H.arry Kalmn11 I,oew.

"H. L. D. Kirkham.

"J. L. Rentfro.
"J. A.

Saldana, Sr.

"R .. B. Creager."

-----0------Q

Net ther of thoae men· arc in the fo.roo nor.?

A

The only one ! know in

Q

He is not one of those prAsent

th~

force !.s
~hen

s~nders.

he v.as shot in the

back?
~ban

he

wa~

A

Ho is one of those prosent

shot in the back.

Q

It was the other men thet he said 5hot him?

A

The cnrTiagc cpieocle occurred first. This t!lan was shot

in the erl'!l and v;ent home; nubsoquentJ.y tho Captain and his men

and deputy sheriffs

~ent

to his house and he was shot in the

back 8fter he was tsken out of his house.
i~

Isn't it a :f.'sat that the average :Mexican there re :f'ore to

all peace officers as Rangero?

no, str; they usually knov~ the
A
37{)
throur,h living in the sane little towns
Texas State
Library and Archives Commission

loo al peace officers
with them.

 Q

I t hought---

.A

!To, s i r; they kno't' the distinction very clearly.

Q

'.Yhich one ';"as 1t he sa id fired. t:'lo shot mr he thought

that killeo. him?

A

Uresti.

I think .Andreas Uresti was a de puty sheri f f

at that time; I am not sure .
GEh"ERA.,., H~\RLEY :
A

He is not in the Rang er ser vice now ~

Oh , no. I don ' t think he hes· been on in the Ranger

service, if at al l ,
. TR • .KliIGHT :

for ten yea rs , for five or ten years •

You say, of course . and quite correctly , that

out rages hsve occureed as a matter of fact, that has char acter•
ized the entire developeme nt of our

~e x e.s

ci vil ivat i on, beginning

at t he i:orth and goii:g on around?
J..

Bey ona any ques tion.

I I; has reiwhed the stage when 1t

ought to be stop·oed.

Q

There has been a great many white men killed down there

t oo?
..A

~·ell,

of c ourse by a great man.y, I don ' t bel i eve there

has been as many whi te men killed on t hat fronti e r i n the last
t en years

a~

there ha s been 1.n your city of Dallas.

Q

That is bad enough, if it ia as bad as that, Lord 1

A

There has been no wil d frontier , Judge, unti l during

these bandit out r ages .

That is the only time since ! was a

ch ild seven years old when wo had dangerous conditions .
Q

Arc you familiar

A

Yes , s i r .

Q

When was thst?

A

During the bandit trouble in 1915, I believe.

Q

That wa s an att aok of a real militar y si ze?

A

The bes t

\'Vi th

thet Dorias r a id?

estimation I cou ld learn . t h ere

~ere

over

on e hundre d men in that raid , armed with military rifles .

37'1
Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 Q

How many men were killed in that raid?

A

I think five;

Q

You are familiar with the recent, comparatively recent.

five Americans, soldiers I think.

in the last year. of the assassination of Mr. Frank 1"18.rtin
down there on that r anch?
A

Yes, I know of that, of course.

Q

You know of the raid on the East ranch?

A

I know of it, yes, sir.

Q

When was it'?

A

That was in

Q

That was last year, wasn 't it? That, likewise. was a

re~ent

years.

raid that assumed the proportions of a real military attack,
didn't it?
·A Hy reoollect1on is that involved a less number but it
was quite a fight.
Q

Not quite as large as the Norias raid?

A

Just a moment.

I am oonfustne the Norise raid with

an attaok on the American soldier patrol in Hidalgo County.
In the Norias raid there were probably, I believe the evidence
wbowed forty or fifty involved in that.
Q

I am going to get to that.

That up there involved some-

thing like a hundred? What was the arm of the law whose duty it

was, or rather, wh6 did, so tar as it was done, ferret out
those outrages? Was it, or not, the Rangers?
A

The Rangers made every effort within their power. I

believe, to ferret out who did it.
Q

You spoke of a "blaok 11.at."

That means a list of bad

men, as best they could get them on their list?

3(' ~

A

Yes, sir.

Q

You spoke of them frequenting a questionable resort there

--the

"tango-p~noo"

or something?

Texas StateA Library
and Archives Commission
I understood, again by hearsay, that recently some Rangers

 and deputy sheriffs were drunk at this bongo.
Q

As a matter of faot, if any of those bandits

should be skulking around in that

country they would be

more likely to find them at the joints, would they, or not,
wouldn't 1t be common

and good espionage service .to look out

for them in those kind of places1
A

The bandits would hardly frequent a public dance hall.

They would probably be a little more careful about showing
themselves where a hundred or so people are congregated together.
Q

That was Captain Taylor's oompany:

they have all been

discharged anyhow, haven't they?
A

I understand that they have, but understand me,- this

recent drunken spree I am talking of ooourred recently, s1noe
that company was discharged.
Q

Do you know when that was?

A

I think in the last three or four weeks. I think Captain

Vann, our she.riff, could tell 1ou about that.
Q

He is here?

A

Yes.

My information about that is hearsay, and has

very little welght.
Q

You remember that raid of Villa in Arizona and New ilex-

In addition to those conspicuous, organized attacks that

ico?

I called your attention to, there were a great number of individual
bad characters that

dri~ed

backwards and forwards across that

border?
I

I

'

A

Yea, sir.

Q

And the conditions by reason of those.- and again th\re

\

was---The part of prudence would suggest to the R~g6r fo~ \
to be on the alert constantly for fear of some other

organiz~d
~

r aid as well as for the individual bad man;

....q
3t ' ,

now they would

.

~
\

necessarily be constantly on the alert and knowing the chara&ter
T/

of those men they would sometimes probably act too hast111'. .µi~.

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 do a wrong, but if they were under bond, if they were hand1oapped, and even if they could make the bond, wouldn't that
praotioally destroy

th~1r

effic1enoy in the matter of

be~ng

ready to apprehend and capture those skulking culprits or to
resist forcibily anyhow the attacks of the organized bands,
wouldn't largely destroy the very faot of the Ranger service?

A

My opinion is it would not. We are not now 1n any wise.

troubled by the bandits'

raids; that is a thing that has been

gone for two or more years.

The•e 1e d1sulto17 stealing from

across the river .• - come aorose and steal a few head of mules
or horses and taking them back aoroee the river.

The Mexicans

authorities have during the last couple of years been cooperating fairly well 'With our local author1t1es,blt the point I wanted
to make in connection with that, the matter to which you refer
is that through the oonduct of the Rangers and 111 advised
.
'
I
local oonstanulary that followed the lead of the Rangers, they
simply multiplied the number of bandits with whom
oontend. They would go out and

w~
•

tt

had
'f

t~

hang them to trees until praot1,

\

'
\
oally dead, or would shoot d..loaV& dead on the ground some\

Mexican, who was es innocent as you, who had never been

in\~

Brownsville, the result or that wae :;ou would make that ma{•.e

brothers and relatives for two or three generations band1taVor ·
potential bandits.

They would say, "You Americans are

do1ri~~

nothing to ~rotect us and t here is nothing left for us to a~\b
'

to become bandits."

I

I

\

I have seen ranohee in ruins, bur~ing, . ~~ ~

several matches that they set a match to them and burned ~~e~. :'l\

'·\ \.~

Q

Who would do that?

A

The Rangers and local officers.

Q

'\
\
Do you know of anyy instance where the Hangers did ).._t hat? \

A

I was not with them but I know that the Rangers took

the ~
j

lead 1n that sort of thing along with local peace officers ~ho ~

Texas State
were Library
just as and
muchArchives
to blame.Commission

\~ 1.
~

 Q

Isn't it a fact that the o1t1zens themselves of some

of them did some of those things?
A

Yes. although the oitizens never did those things

unless under the encouragement and protection of Rangers and
loca l officers;

that the Rangers · were involved deeply in that

sort of thing there is no shadow of
Q

doubt~

I rsther agree with you in your forecast and theory

in regard to those matters and I am heartily in accord with
you but at the same time isn't it more a condition that ~gs
confronted th1s country in the last three or four years than a
theory,- hasn't the very situation itself warranted the extremes?
A

Absolutely not. In fact the older o1t1zens all say this,they

that know the llex1can p·eople intimately and well, knew that oours e
of conduct that was being followed there was absolutely the worst
thing in the world that oould happen to the frontier beoause
they were multiplying the bandits. those who would want to go
out to get revenge for the killing of their relatives. and -we
did everything we could to stop it. and thie conduct did

~o,hing

to stop it. It was increasing constantly, that flame was, growing higher, until we secured the removal of the commander

o~

Matamoras and replaced him with a man who would · cooperate with
the men on this side.

The very moment

~

we deprived them of

that refuge those raids and outrages stopped.
Q

The raid at Columbus, that was not a continua tion

\

\

that kind, was it?
A

I know as muoh about that as you do, from the

pape1ts~
\

Q

That Tom

~ast

affair, that actually took Tom

i '
I

~ast a~ ~

lfy

recollection is that a hostage, -

\

\ \
i

hostage for a while, did they not?
A

'

.\

'
my

I

recollection\

about that 1s oonfueed. I believe they had some one as a ~o6t~ge : .

Texas State
Library
Archives
381
there,I won•and
t say,
what I Commission
·saw 1n the papers

just as you ia1d;

 I know about that as much as you do. from the papers.

I don't

· remember the details at all.
Q

You remember the assassination. the killing of Ranger

Shaw, do you not?

A

When did that occur?

Q

Last year?

A

Where was it?

Q

And Ranger Timberlake, at Brownsville?

A

Below Brownsville.

Q

Ranger Shaw. Timberlake and Cunningham?

A

Yes, I remember that.

Q

How many white people have been killed down in that

country would you say in the last three or four years?
A

Including those and those that were killed during the

bandit troubles?
Q

Yes.

A

Probably t wenty.

Q

You say you think that probably ninety per oent. of

the Mexicans that were killed were innocent of the partiouler
oharse of which they were aooused?

(

A

I believe that is a safe perceutage • .

Q

What was the percentage of thos white people who deserved

death, wouia you say?
A

None of them, in my opinion. ·

Q

What has been the extent---

A

You ar~ missing my point entirely.

If my evidence means

anything it has no oonneotion--not those Americans that we'r e
killed were to blame in any way,- they weee assassinated in a .
cowardly manner. The point 1 s,

1\

what the Hangers and pe.ao-e
I

officers of that character were doing was causing the killing
of those Americans.
Q

That is your theory?

Texas StateA Library
and
Commission
That is
a Archives
coTreot theory,
too.
38 '~

{

I
J

.
/

 Q

Expressed in dollars and cents, what has been the

quantity of property destroyed down there by those bandits
raids and ravages and individual bandits in the last four or
five years?
MR. CANALES: I object to that as being immaterial and
irrelevant. We are not investigating about property. It is
not the dollars and cents-- it is men we are investigating
here and their conduct.

This gentleman comes from Dallas

where they alwsys look at things from a dollars standpoint
but we fellows over here believe that the citizens and the
lives of the citizens are worth more than dollars and cents.
THE CHAIRHAN:

I think the examination le taking a rather

wide range.

UR. KNIGHT:

Q That word was suggested to you, ! don't

know whether you used it or not, that word "evaporate";

there

were two different forms of evaporation, some disappeared back
into 11exico. they disappeared, ! don't know wl!ether they went
back into Mexico or went the· other route:

when that word is

used it means they got out of that country?
A

I did not use that word.

Q

All you mean by evaporation is that they, not that they

killed anybody but that they used the better
A

~art

of discretion?

You know there . were large numbers of bodies found in

the brush. A lawyer at Brownsville. Frank Pierce, now dead,
prepared a list of twenty or thirty who were identified.
Q

A great ma?Y of those murders were committed by the

citizens, individual citizens, growing out of

differen~

feuds,

eta.?
A

It all grew out of the bandit troubles.

Q

·I will ask you if a number of them did not have on

Carranza soldiers' uniforms?

A

Those that were 1nvolved in those larger raids did. For \

instance
. at the
time
of the Commission
attaok on that patrol,- of course a
Texas State
Library
and
Archives

381

 Carranza uniform did not mean but but there was no dount there
were local Carranza troops involved in that larger riad, that
is true.
Q

Here is a system of rules inaugurated recently: you

'

tlilfe them and read them at your leisure and we. may introduce
you again to give the committee the benefit of your opinion.
A

I am awfully anxious to get away. If you will let me

get away by tomorrow at noon•
EXAMINED BY I.nt. Cl\NA ':aE S:

Q

You think any system of rules will change conditions

over there, don't you think the personnel of the foroe would
be a better safeguard than rules, knowing the character of the
Rangers as you know them?
There is no question but that there ought to be a weeding
out of the Ranger f orce.
A

Q

You were talking about with a committee going to ask

the removal of General Nafarati;

wasn't I member of that com-

mittee and didn't I also address Carranza?
A

You were a member of the committee, yes.

Q

You mentioned with regard to t he faot of Captain Hanson.

that he was instrumental in the dieoharge of Captain Fox, as
being one of .the reasons why you think he is a very efficiant
off icer?
A

That is ~om he~ rsay and my understanding .

Q

If the facts show that in his investiga tion made in

that affair that he ~ought really to cover up and justify these
men

would you not change your opinion?
11R. KNIGHT: That is purely ~rgumentative and I object to it.
Q Wouldn't you?

A

I know nothing of the facts of the killing of those fifteen

men by that Ranger company for which they were discharged. Such
as I saw
in Archives
the press,but I had a talk with Captain
Texasreports
State Library
and
Commission

 Hanson shortly after he had examined it and he expressed
very general i ndignation over the conduct of those men, and
taking the fact that they were subsequently discharged I took
it he had been instrumental in discharging them .
Q

He al so stated that to me but the fact that he attempted

to justify those very
!'HE CH.AIRHAN :
that testified

men~

Statement by you of the facts cont rary to

to by the witness,

judgment is absolutely improper.

or upon which he bases his
Now, should you desire to be heard

at any time as a.witness or to introduce any fact in your possession
of contrary nature it would be entirely proper

for you to do so,

but for you to lhlxmr+ state a different srt of facts and ask the
witness to draw his conclusion from that is improper and it will
unnecessarily lengthen an examination that has already gone too
far.

MR. CANALES:

I am sorry that my cross-examination always

goes too far and it seems that , to me , that the other

o~e

never

goes far enough.
TH~

CHAIRHAN :

v;hile · I am chairman of this committee I am

not going to permit any suggestion of that kind from. you. Every
courtesy on earth has been extended to you and will be, and
every opportunity will be given to you that can possibly be extended
to you by the committee but I am going to ask you to respect
this committee and its rulings.
UR. {!IANALES:

I will respect this committee and its rulings

but I belive that some that rules that apply to me should apply to
opposing counsel.
THE CHAIR::AN:

Mr. Canales, they have;

and I am not going to

have a suggestion otherwise .
MR .

CANALES:

This witness has been asked on cr oss - examinat-

ion by Judge Kmight that I had expressed to him my opinion of

Mr. Hanson.

I have a right to ask the witness whether- -- and

the witness stated his opinion of Cantain Hanson as an effeficient

Texas State Library and Archives Commission
officer on the the fact

that

Captain

Hanson

has

discharred tho se

 men and that he was advised by Cantain .Hanson himself that he·
did so,- I believe I have a right to ask the witness that if
the facts wi ll prove in fact and in truth that Captain Hanson
did tell me the real faots in that case, that he would also
change his Qp1n1on, as I did, and my opinion wae not changed
on the , faot that Captain Hanson w~s acting in unearthing eleotio;
frauds.
~HE CH.A_IRM.AN: The Chair will adhere• to 1 ts ruling that the
question is; improper.
I

/,

EXAllilmD BY SENATOR WILLIFORD.
Q

si~~a

It is a faot that desperate characters congregate on both
of that borderr

1

During the bandit trouble it was true, and since .Mexico

A

~has remained in a disturbed condition, even up to the present,

dti there
/, ·is

/.I ,.
,,,/

certain amount of that' yes.

.

Suppose you

Q

tak~

what you oall

~ay with those class of men has he time

I

end

\

with . them. to find out whether he 1s right man or not?

to stop and parley

I

·1

'

No;

A

but it is better that some of those men escape than

/~ou or I to be shot down or

)

I

/

beaten in the head with a sixshooter

You make a SU8geat1on as to what you think would be best
to fix that?
Q

/ IJ/ay
A
II f
(\

I think in the first plaoe· the number of Rangers now in

/~~~~9, State ought to be limited,

I

a high-olass Ranger,

that 1 really · wants to do his duty, if he has to do business night

//

/

8

,

I know that hundreds were

appointe~

.

1 (I\ spec !al ?angers: down in my country you never know when you are

~t
I ing
1

to ~un into a m~n with· a large sixshooter on , and you pre-

sume he is a special Ranger. However , that probably does not apply

\

~ now, but with reference to the regular Ranger. force, with which

7ou ,'really have to do, I think the power that the Governor has to

a~p~int those special Rangers ought to be curtailed. I think the
/

/

\

regular
Rangers
ought
to be decreased. I think their
Texasni;r.fber
Library
and
Archives
Commission
, State of

I~

"

,/

ru8f~/·

I \

.

 salary ought to be increased.
petent man for

fi~y

dollars

You can never get a really coma month.

And then I believe they

should be placed under bond,- though I see some objeot1ons to 1t.
Q

When you put a man down there on official duty and it

~

is known by the bandit and bad man ·that he 1s a Ranger .he oarries
his

in bis hands, in a way?

1~fe

A

!es;

yet we do not want to exaggerate that.

There have

been very few Rangers killed; take the number of them operating
down there, there heve been a very few number of them killed.
For •wenty years there have been very few of them killed.
EXAMINED BY SEN!iTOR WITT.

Q

Unless there is some change in the personnel of the

.

Rangers or restraints do you think that country would be better
off without the Hangers at all?

I

I
I

A

I do;

Hr. Witt, during the twenty years of my experience

on that frontier, I say it witb all solemnity, that
/ have caused more trouble and

dif.~ioulty

~he

Rangers

on the frontier than

they have done uu good.

MR. CANALES:
faot that

I

~anger

That assassination of Ranger Shaw.' isn't it a
Shaw was killed by Salinas in self-defense?
\

A
Q·

I don't know about tha t.

.'

I

Salinas went over to look after his corn .and the ~anger

fired on him with bird shot and then he fired on the

~anger,

'\

killing him?
A

\

I don't know the details of that.
EXAMIIIBD BY SENATOR WITT.

Q

., \

What is the oo cas1on of having !!sneers there when ~leot~\ \

,,

ions are being held?
A

Nominally there, they a re sent there to . keep pe~ce ~1\:,e.en

the local partisans; as a matter of tact they have always be~~\
partisans of one faction or the other. I eay "Alwaye"--thefp may\___
'!

have been specific instances that ths t ie not so.

I know ~eoifio \

~ngers who tried to keep out of it. but in the m~in they ha~e the

/

Texas State
Library and Archives Commission
/

38'/

;

 effect of helping one snd hurting the other.
Q

They have not been effective 1n keeping the peace at all?

A

No:

I tell you there have been more fights and- votes

used wrong through the presence of Rangers than if they had not
been there.

You take a

ma~faktke we have as sheriff of Cameron

County to-day and I will tell you we have less trouble in Cameron
County with a sheriff 11ke him without Rangers unless you improve
the cha·r aoter of the .tcange re we have down there.

Q

Is this a situation where local political

.

~?oss"
,.

would

get the Aanr:ers thereJ to help keep----

A

Yes, thatis it

exactly~

I think tho politiosl .boss

oan get Rangers to help him and I think t hat is what he is
doing right now 1n this Glasscock-Parr contest.
Q

In what way do they help?

A

The ignorant class of voters. many Mexioan voters and

the ignorant olass among the white voters are afraid .of the
Rangers; they a re terror1 zed by them;

•'

the .ltangers wlil b,e \

runn1n~

about the polling places and they will be ohumming end
1

with one faction and not at all with the other. They wi.il be ·\

'.

giving their faction liberties and and on the slightest e~us~

\

they will arrest one of the adverse faotion and put him in
Q

You are not interested in either one of the

j~11.
j \.

Demoora~~

feotions?
A

Hot a bit in the world.

Not a partiale.

,\

They do not affect the issue between the Democrats and
Republicans?
:~
Q

A

r.'

~

l
\

The Demoorats used them on us pretty strong •. That
~I

reason I remarked while ago, I am glad 1t has degenerated to a , f 1

I fight
/

I
I

r/

//

'

~eplublicens

to watch.

\
\

\

Q

You say Captain Stephens was present when this

was taken from his house and shot?

Not Stephens.--Captain
~anders.
Texas StateALibrary
and Archives Commission

;~

/
'

EXAMINED BY MR. LACKEY.

l \

/

between you Democrats and left us

\.

Mexioa~
\

 Q

He was present when he was shot?

A

Yea, sir.

Q

Any

A

other nangers with him?

• Yee. sir.

Q

You say you don't knew their name a?

A

I don •·t know their names.

I will ask you if it la not a fact there were a great
many people found dead in the brush while the ~ational guard was
Q

~io

stationed along the

Grande?

A

Yee, sir.

Q

A great many men found dead in the brush?

A

Yes, that is true.

Q

Do you know whether they attributed the death of any of

them to the National Guard or the Aengere?
~A

The

~angers.

The Dattonal Guard was under pretty strict

control of their officers; they were kept fn camp and only went
out under officers in detachments, and so on.

There is no

question but that they had very little, aomparat1vely very 11ttl
to do with those promiscuous killings and that Federal troops had
very little to do with thsm.
Q

Do you know of any Ranger in the service now, in Cameron

County or along the border, that has been guilty of any acts
that would be detrimental to the service?
t

A

.•

I don't believe I know the neme of a Ranger in Cameron

County now. I see them and know some of them by sight but do
not believe I oan mention the name
ty.

o~

a Ranger in Uameron Coun-

I see very little o~ them myself an~ em not nartioularly

in toueh with them and I do not believe now r oan call the name
of a one.
EXAMINED BY SENATOR PAGE.
Q

You spoke about the faot you thought it possibly might

be better ·to place the Ranger force under bond:

I suppose you

realize it would be a little hard for a private Ranger to

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 s1ve bond. the private. not the officer,- the surety oompanioa
would not write those bonds,probably you yourself would not
oere to go on them?

A

I would not unless I knnw the man.

q

I want to get yo\U" idea as a business mrul:

by

the

bonding of the offioers and making them responsible for the
acta,- for fnstanoe, the sheriff 1s to some extent responetble
for the nots of his deputy:

by

Could we handle 1t in that "'ay?

A

Dy having a Raneer captain undor bond?

Q

Yes. by having the captain undor a heavy, bond?

A

!n that case you would hAve to amend the present law

giving the Captain

~ower

to name his own con because it would

be unfair to allow the Adjutant General to name the man and
make the oaptain responsible for them.
Q

Leaving aside that question.- 1! the oapti.n was unfter

bond?

A

It would be a very greet improvement.

Q

Don't you think that. to a great a::rtent. would alleviate

the situation?

A

! believe 1t would help tremendously.
EXAYI.NED BY CHAIRHAN BLEDeor;.

Q

What percentage of the man on the nangor f orae th6t have

oome under your observation ought to be dtschar3ed from the
force?

A

That 1e

Q

You oan appromJ.mate it.

A

I don't think I know personally a fourth of the men on

ver~

difficult thing.

the Hang or force a.t the present time, by sight.

I know mo et of

the captains by s16ht and by name probably but as to the

private~

not
I don't believe ! know half a dozen of. them by name. I wou1dAhes1-

tate to answer it a moment lf ! .'know those men personally. but

I do not.
Texas State
Library and Archives Commission

3~U

 Q

What percentage of those that have come under your

observation do you think

oug~t

to be disoharged?

A

Running baok in the course of years?

Q

Say in the last five years?

A

That is a very, very hard question for me to answer.

I don't believe I can answer that in fairness.

Q

Going back to this dying declaration you have intro-

duced. there was something said in it to the effect that the
captain said to the men who was wounded, says, "If this shot
is not sufficient to
~ive

you more."

~ill

you or to cause your death, we will

Is there such an expression in substance in

that declaration?
A

Yes, sir.

Q

To whom did this man refer as the Captain, if you know?

A

To Captain Sanders.

Q

He was the

A

Yee, sir.

Q

Did you or not see him around there?

A

He was in Brownsville the night and day before and the

~anger

Captain in charge?

following day, to my knowledge.
Q

You spoke about, that at that time the headquarters

of the State Rangers in Brownsville was in the saloons, ·
--did that condition continue up to the time the saloon wer$

on.osed in Brownsville?
A

~

I said a moment ago, to the bes~ of my reoollection

\

\

the Adjutant ~eneral issued some oharacter of order forbidding

Rangers to go into saloons sometime before that Zone law closed

the saloons.
Q

Approximately , how long?

~

I don't know; maybe six months. I don't remember how

long but I will say during the course of · years up until practi-

Texas State Library and Archives Commission
391

oally the times the saloons were closed by law it 1s a positive

 fact that the headquarters of the Ranger force in Brownsville
was in saloons, and furthermore, they were in certa in factional
saloons,- that is, belonged to factions to which the looal
sheriff at the time belonged.
Did or did not open gambling continue in Brownsville

Q

up to within the last two yea rs?

A

but concealed gambling, I understand. has gone

No;

on like ! presume it has in most cities of th-at size, but open
gambling has not gone on in Brownsville for probably eight or
ten years, at least eight or ten years.
Could you say that the

Q

~ang ers

at times were just a

little oppreac1ve towards the Republicans?

A

They seemed to feel that we did not have quite the same

rights as an honest Democrat did.

OUr fi ghts down there. during

our time, have not been so much between Renublicans and Demoorate as between the Independent faction and the local
maoh1ne.

Demoorati~

There were some Hepublioens in the local Democratio

machine.
You say the Hepubl1oans were in the local Democratic

Q

maobine?
A

I say some were.

Q

Some lined up on the other side?

A

Yes;

Q

That is the side you referred to as the Jim Wells faot-

1

the majority were lined up with the Independents.

ion?
1

, A

·Yes, sir.

•

'!

~ EXAMINED :SY MR. LACKEY:
f

,•

'

.

Q , Several years ago 'didn't they have a shooting

fell~ws killed 1n the o1ty of ~rownaville
~cit~ a~thorities ~nd the county authro1t1ee?
e,,..(erel
I

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.ft

scrap~

between the

an4
'\.,

I

Yes , sir •

j

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Were the Hangers mixed up in that?

Texas
State
Library
andremember.
ArchivesThat
Commission
.}~
I don't
ooourred in
u·~ ,~!)
;:.,
/

I

I

a house of

pros~itutt.o11

 in Brownsville. The then sheriff, the predecessor of our
present sheriff, and several of his deputies were in this house
of prostitution and several of the oity officials went in and
undertook to arrest them. I don't know whether any ftaD(!lers were
mixed up in that or not.

You could easily find out because

the parties. were indicted for it on both aides.
Q

Wes any one convicted on either side?

A

No, sir.

Q

The case was dismissed?

A

The cases were all d1sm1.s sed to the best of

reool-

my

letition.

.

.. .

.~

EXAMINED BY MR. KlIIGHT.

You are familiar with conditions there: Say Captain Vann

Q

was required to give a fifty thous and dollar bond.- suppose

that was required of a Ranger captain or Adjutant qeneral, and
suppose the salary of the men was retained at fifty dollars a
month, now, you nor I either one would take that job, I will
answer that myself,- Do you think it is possible to get a capable
man to take charge of tha t condition of affairs under those
oiroumstanoes and being oalled from El Paso to Texarkana and
from Brownsville to Texline? Wouldn't it be
to seleot a

m~n

almost unthinkable

and bond him under those conditions and not pay

f

him any more?
A

Absolutely.

the pay of ,the whole

I think it is impossible, without
~anger

raia~ng

force.

Do you think it is possible, in the oonduot of human

Q

\\
\.

affairs,, to ,get better men on an average at the price:3 .they pe.y?. ,
!

I

A ' At the prioes they pay I don't believe they can.
,t

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MR •. CANALES:

Q

Isn't it a fact that one of the parties

in the aff.air named by Hr. Lackey was ' named Davenport? ,
I

A

One of the parties where?

Q

That was in that fight between the city and the county

I
I

Texas State Library and Archives Commission
I

!

"'

 officers in that house of prostitution?
A
of

my

I believe he was.
knowle dge,

th~ t

GENERAL HARLEY:

I think that is correct, to the best

i s correct.

Was he a special Ranger or a regular Ranger?

I don't know.

A

--------~0------~--~Photographs which were identified by the witness R. B.
Creager were introduced in evidence by Ur. J. T. CaDl.es.
GBNF.RAL HARLEY:

I obj ect to the introduction of those

pictures.
THE CHAilU!AN:

I think the picture is admissible.
----------0----~------

w. w.

BE ALL,

as a wttness in connection with the oharges prepared

c~lled

Hr. John J. Ford, having previously been duly sworn, testified

by

before
the committee as follows:
'
(

I

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EXAMINED BY MR. JOHN J. FOBD.

/

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Q

What is your name?

A·

W; W.

Beall.

!

Where do you live?

I

11'/ ,; II
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Sweetwater.
AQ ·

:

A1! that?
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long have you lived 1n Sweetwater?

1Si~ce 1896~

You .,have lived in that and adjoining oounties longer than
''

A

Yes.

Q

k hat official position do you hold now?

A

~udge

\

j

·~ow

I have lived in that country since 1881.

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

3)v)
F1 I

of the 32nd Judicial District.

 Q

How long have you been judge of that district?

A

I was elected in 1912.

Q

As district judge are you to some extent familiar

with the Ranger aot1v1t1es in that country?
A

Q

Well, yes, to some extent.
Are you familiar with the public opinion in that

country in regard to the Rangers in that vicinity?

A

Well, I think I am, yes.

Q

Have you heard any complaint from the best citizens "

of that country in regard to the Ranger service out there and
in regard to the Ranr ere?

A

Well, yea, I have heard quite a good deal of it but to

give you the names of parties it would be almost

!~possible.

Q

You have heard quite a good deal of complaint?

A

Yea, sir.

Q

llave ·you heard some of the beet citizens of that

oountry express themselves as to the regulation of the Ranger
force?
·A

It has

be~n

a matter of .discussion

u~

there for a year

or so.
/

Q

From what you knov1 of the ci tizenehip there and the

opinions you have heard expressed, what

the opinion of the

public generally out there in regard to the regulation of the

.'

Ranger force, Judge?

/

'

A

I

Well, the general opinion of the people as expressed to

I me in my travels over the district, is to the effect that

I

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ought to be regulated.

.

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~

they

Q

As an officer in that dis t rict and having been associated

with people and heard those complaints and knowing something of
the

Ra~ger

force, do you in your opinion believe that the

force should be regulated?

Texas State A
Library
and Archives
Commission
I certainly
do.

Ra~ger

 What kind of a system of regulation would you suggest
to this Committee?
Q

A

Well, I would suggest this:

if I had to make a suggest-

ion about it at all,- I believe that the Ranger system is a

necessary thing for the policing of the State of Texas. I am

not at all opposed to the Ranger system, that is the Ranger
'

law, and I believe it is almost indispensihle, but I believe
that the Rangers should be put under bond just the same as

sheriffs of the State. I can see no reason why they should not.

I do not believe it is a proper thing to-aa7 to arm

men and

I

sent them out

I

into the country among the oitizenship of this

State ta perform their offioial duties with nothing in the
world behind tnem to deter them exoept their own ideas of
things and their consoienoes. I do think they 1'0.ght to be put
under bond to the extent that they are responsible in any injury
that should oocur trom anything unlawful. I think that could be
rea 0 hed in a number of ·ways.

First, r think it oould be reached·

by proper men bing put in those offices. Understand, I have

.

nothing against any one who la on the Ranger force at all,- they
have been ' very nice to me; and I feel that we could get better
,
men in those offices....that would be more satisfactory by letting
the representatives of the several counties select their own
rangers, to be subject to the oall of the governor and to draw
pay while· in service; when not in service

or

tke Adjutant General he oanbe a Ranger without pay until

celled into ee·r vioe.

I think,agein. that the Rangers receive

entirely too small a pay.
,

for the governor

I think they ought to have a fee that

would pay men a sufficient salary. to oall good men, and res-

J

ponsible men, into the service, or else they should be appointed
perhaps on the recommendation of the court.
Q

,In your opinion is there or has there been any necessity

for any >Rangers in that section of the oountry for quite a long .

Texas State
Library and Archives Commission
while, ! f ever?
3911

 A Yes, I think so.
The last few months has there been any necessity for

Q

them?
A

None thet I know of.

Q

From the expressions you have heard from the citizens

of that country what is the

opinio~

generally as to the regu-

lation of the Rangers, from the best people there?

SENATOR WITT:
A

That question has been asked, Mr. Chairman.

Well, they have not expressed themselves as to how they

should be regulated espeo1ally but the general expression, eo
far as I have been able to ascertain, in talking t~ the people,

they ought to be under the same laws aa the sheriff of a
· Q

·A
', Q

/

oounty~

Do you know the sheriff of that oounty?
Yea, sir.
.Y:ou. oonsider him and recognize him as being a good

~ffice~ ·ana

. ...

a good man?

"A\ ·. r : think he is, so far as I know; of oourse he is reI

cently in and has not had a chance to prove himself yet.
~

~.,.
I

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Do you know of any reason .why the sheriff and his deputiett.

Q

~

looal ,Pitjoe offioers

4hat country?. , · \.•,\ .\'"
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•

oannot handle the situation now out in

1, ,

No • • sir , ! do not •

•

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.Q ' That is all.

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....

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Rahgets now, I believe, get fifty dollars a month?
~hat

/~,· Q,

EXAMINED BY MR. XNIGRT •
is my understanding.

,I
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Now, what ·would be your idea about what shoul d be paid

t~?
/

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/~·¥, .

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I expenses.

J
Q. Do you think you oould get any better men f or
Texas State Library and Archives Commission
1

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A . ' They ought to be paid one hundred dollars a month a~d

a hundred

 2S9tS

than you oould get for fifty?
A:

~

I

inclined to

th~nk,so,

yea, sir. I am not saying that

the men in there ere not good men but I believe you can get men-You spoke of a bond. You understand that the Ranger is a

Q

polioe, he goes to your country, my country,

~l

Paso, Browns-

ville, to the State line; do you think it would be praot1cable
at all to

put the individual Ranger under bond, that is, in

any bonding company that would write them?
A

Why, I suppose so. If a men oannot give bond I don't

think he ought to be circulating around emong the people.
Are not conditions entirely different in the oase of

Q

constables and sheriffs,- they are at home where they a·r e known
by the people, whereae, . ns Captain of the Hangers, for instance .

where there is a big political embrogl1o, as in the South part
of the State, one said they were guilty of one thing or the
other .end the other side I don't doubt will introduce testimony
of what they allege, These

~angers

to there and get testimony,

wouldn't 1t be.- the liability of incurring complaint, and the
liability of bankruptcy might very well prevent any.man of
I

prudent capacity from seeking a job like that?
1

I don • t know.

A

I oan see no reason why ff a man is

;

ealled into service in this State from the Governor down, why
he

not be made to give a bond.

ahoul~

oaee. I will g1ve

yo~

one back:

You gave me a

~uppqsed
'

~

Here is a Ranger· goes out ·1n

I

the oountry armed with nothing except his
•,

w1th 1noth1ng but a

.

s1xshoote~

o~ aonsoienoe--ar~ed

and a big gun, · he

m~y h~ve .

some \

desire on hie part to make a run on a citizen and injure him
or

k1~~

\

him; he may hurt him. Now. why 01J8ht that Ranger be 1n

an attitude · that he 1s to be protected beyond that of the
sb'er1ffs of our country who are elected by our people? Why not
make him just as responsible as anybody else?
Q

I will answer that question candidly:

Texas State Library and Archives Commission
the effioiency and----

it would destroy

 THE CHAIRllAli:

Judge, the examination is becoming too much

of an argument.
(Mr. Knight)

Q

You take the case of the soldier; he is

under military discipline. If a general was required to go
under bond or put his soldiers under bond would not thet result
necessarily in destroying the efficiency of the army?

A

In military matters it might and might not.

Q

And

i~t

it your understanding that the lianger service

in theory at least. and I believe in practice. is s military
organization?

A

It may heve such features.

Q

You had oooaaion. I believe you parsonally called for

Rangers out there in your country?

A

Yes, I have. more than onoe.

Q

How many times have you had oooaoion to oall upon the

Governor for protection?
ti~ea.

A

I think two or three

Q

Would you hesitate aga1n1f~the condition should arise?

A

Not a bit in the .world. I would oall for them in· a

minute if ! needed them.
JU.dge, ~ou are familiar,--- You viewed the body

Q
Bostiok?
A

Yes. I saw it in the jail.

Q

Was that a suicide or not?

•

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I

A

I

'

I oould not tell you to eave my life, but I will tell

you what I believe about it.
CHAIRMAN BLEDSOE:

I think so. ·

.f

Bow long have the Rangers 'been . kep't
I

.
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\

in

your district?
{

A

To tell you the length of time they have been 'in my

district, I do not remember, but they have been there a year

or more, maybe two years.

Texas State Library and Archives Commission
I
T

 Q

Did they, or not, come 1n there at your request?

A

The first time they d1d. They came to Snyder at my

request.
Q

That is in Scurry County, about a hundred miles above

A

Yea, no, no; it is not that far; something like forty

you?

miles, thirty-five or forty miles from our town to Snyder.
Q

Anyway, it is in an adjo.in1ng oounty?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

During the last s1x or eight months has there been any

neoessity for maintaining a Ranger force in your town?
A

Bot that I know of.

Q

Have they been maintained there at the request of any

of your officers or yourself?
A

not that

Q

You nave fairly law abiding citizenship there?

A

I think so.

Q

You have officers able to take care of the local s1tuat-

A

Yes. s i r.

Q

How many Rangers have been kept in there on you f ~'1ks?

A

To answer that question,

I

know of.

ion?

'

l

"

J~dge,

I

oannot answer th!\t

definitely. There has been some wheres from one to three alld\
four maybe from time to time. Sometimes there is one and

\

\

ao~e-

\

times there is two and sometimes three. For awhile, as I reme,-

ber, there were

~our

~\-

or five tor a little while• b,u t not a

great while.
\'
Q As Judge of that district, do you think it for the best ~
interest of your town and oommunity for that bunch
. to be there?

A . I do not see what food they oan do there.

o~ ~ange~s

\
No, I don't

thinkLibrary
eo.
Texas State
and Archives Commission

\

 Q

You do not think it is for the good for the community?

A

Not now. I do not, but there are times when I think

we need them.• and when I think there is certainl y aall them.

There has been 1n the past.
Q

You say there are times when you would have called

for them?
A

There were times When I did oall for them. yes,

Q

In your own county?

A

No, sir.

Q

But these men have been put into the town of Sweetwater

sir~

and have been kept there, one or more of them. for the most of
the time for a numb er of months. heven't they?
A

Yes, air.

Q

Was that done at your request or under your direction?

A

Jo, air.

Q

In your judgment as an offioial, was it necessary

\

h

~r
I

A\

for the best interes't e ot t he oounty that they were or 1 sho~ld
. \

be

ther~?

A

For a while it was.

Q

When was that?

A.

During the time that we had that F.

~.

P. A.

A~

,.

assoof~tton,-­

that Boleheviki outfit going on.

I

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1

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~\

Q

Was any man tn it from your county?

A

No, sir.

Q

Was any man indicted from your county?

A

No. ·air. There was a number of them put in l)ail there)

j ~ )·'\

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though.

\
\

(

Q

How long ago was that?

A

Mus t have been something like s yes r ago.

Q

Don't you know that the men 1nd1oted were

and all except one acquitted at Abilene?
I
Texas
and Archives
4 ~ ! State ALibrary
11.y opinion
was theyCommission
were not indicted.

\

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~big

tried

 There was a crowd from West Texas ind:f.eted and tried

Q

at Abilene?
A

Yea·, s1r.

Q

It was durin£ that 1nyestigat1on the men were arrested

in your county"?
A

Thay were arrested before that invest1rat1on came un.

Q

I say it was all

A

Yes, it was all along at the same time.

Q

Tn!e man Bostiok that Judge Knight asked you about:

alo~g

·.-,., ,_

about the same time?
'

who brought him to your town 8nd put him in jail?

A

I don't know only from hearsay.

Q

Did you ever d1scuss that with any of the Rangers?

A

Yea, I discuosed it with Captain Raneom.

Q

Did he tell you who brought him there?

A

Yes, he told me that his

Q

Ransom was the l"lan who was killed there in. the Wi\ight

Rang~r

force brought him there.
)

hotel sometime ago?

a

A

Yes, s1r.

Q

Are tho Hangarn still maintained 1n your town?

. 1; •

A

I oould not say as to that. I saw some of them

there

fe~

\
.

l

days ago but whether they are maintained ·there or nGt I

could not tell you. They may be there by aocident.

\

)\

Q

You usually know when you see one of them?

A

Oh, yes;

Q

Row do you

A

By sight.,

Q

Does a Ranger dress and oonduct himself in suoh a wsy

\

yes, I know him.
kno~

I

him?

"

.~
I~

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thet

~ou

usually know him when 1ou see him or do you have to be
;.

thtroduced to him?
I

A

' '\

l\

/

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'\

.

Of oourse, I would not really know that a man was a '\

Ranger without I was told so but they usually wear a parapherii;l.a11a

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

40?

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 that does not look like the ordinary citizen.
Q

This paraphernalia usually oonsists of high-topped

boots, big white hat and sixshooter?
A

Yes, sir.

Q

It is not unusual to see them oarrying a Winchester

rifle?
A

I have seen them carrying them. Ordinarily on the

streets they do not have thoir guns with them.
Q

Who is judge o~ the district in which Eastland is?

A

Judge Joe Burkett •

Q

Do you know where hie court is at this time?

A

No, I do not.

..

SENATOR
A

~ILLIPORD:

Q How far is your town from t he border?

I guess somewhere around 250 or 300 miles.

MR. LACKEY:

Q You said you thought it was possible

the l'(ancrera might be eleoted by the districts?
A

'

th~t
'
'
~ \.

No, by the representative districts, let them elect t'h e1r
~

I

own .Hangers.

Q

v

Do you think that the Ranger . elected by the people

in a case of a mob or anythine of that kind would give the

\

s~me

service that a stranger would?
A

Oh, yes, there is no reason why they should not,- not ' a

bit in the world.

~

The idea is this:

The Govornor can call any

number into service that he wants. If he wanta ·ten he can

oa~l

them; he may send them out at a moment's time; he may send the~
to any part of this state, and with the same eff iciency that

h.

i'

l

has now. I oan see no reason why Re should not. That is the

are eleoted by the people than .the Governor or the Adjutant

/'

Ganeral can have so many of them serve as long as he wants the~

Texas State Library and Archives Commission
40 '~

1·. ·

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· reason why I say let them be eleoted by the people and after they

to serve and send them home and eleot others.

t,

'f

I .think it is ;a

I

\
\

\

 nioe way of electing competent men. In other words. my feelings
are that the people ought to say as to who they should be.
EXAMINED BY lo!R. KNIOHT.

Q

How many Rangers have been there in your town in the

last several months?

A

I oould not answer you def initely, as I said while ago,

there is sometimes one, sometimes two and sometimes three.
Q

I wil·l ask you if they have not been effioient, or i:f' they

have in any way interfered with local conditions there?

A

I could not answer that. If they have interfered 1n any

way I have not heard of it.
Q

Sweetwater la on both the mainline of tha Santa Fe and

the T. P.?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

It has a road reaoh1ng out of San Angelo?

A.

Yea, air.

Q

How many roads there?

A

Three roeda there.

Q

Thet is the moat accessible plaoe in all that

·~
'.

aoun~ry

for Hangers to stay in looking aftor that country?
A

As far as railroads arc concerned, in getting out of.

there; you oan get out of there easily and quickly.
Q

You have no objection for State t<angers using that aa '

headquarters, looking out after that part of the country?
A

Me, per sonally?

Q

mie people?

.4

Why. no.

I

r·

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I~

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~

EXAMINED BY MR. FORD.

Q

You have no objection to them staying there as long es

they behave themselves?
A

Personally, no.

Q

You have heard a good deal of complaint about them?

Texas State Library and Archives Commission
40~

\

 A

I have heard a good deal of stuff here and there. I don't

know about that.

You have heard a good deal of oomplaint about them

Q

th~re, there · along different linest in making arrests?
A

fit
1

~Jiaoe tt
;('

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)
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•

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Q

,

fa)I

)
/

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the suppression of that Bolehevikl out there?

A

Yes.

,That they arrested some people there since then?
Yes, air.
Were they disapproved of by parties?

Q

,.

Ii

Ravo you heard of any expression of opinion from anybody

AQ

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oteates bad feelings.
I

EXAMINED BY MR. KNIGHT.

~e~\e
jfo

Sometimes
it does ooour that in keeping Hangers st a
'

A °'

\ \

I could not say about that. The parties I have heard talk

~ about · 1t very much disapproved of it.

\

-----~o-~------o- ~-----

\l
'

W.

M.

(WILLIS) BARBEE,

called as a witness in oonnection with charges prepared

by

Mr. John J. Ford, having previously been duly sworn, testified

before the Committee, as follows:
EXAMINED BY MR• FORD.
Q

What is your name?

A

w. u.

Q

Where do you live?

A

SWeetwater.

Q

How long have you l'ived around in th· t section and about

Barbee.

Texas State Library and Archives Commission
Sweetwater~

 I
4

I

A

About fourteen years.

Q

What official position do y-ou now hold?

A

Deputy sheriff of Nolan County-.

Q

Are you active-office deputy?

A

Yea.

Q

How long have you been an offioor at Sweetwater at

different times,

1·

~\

how many years?

A

About eleven years, off and on.

Q

Did you ever serve on the Ranger force?

A

Yes, sir•

Q

How long?

A

I served under Captain Hughes in 1911 and 1912 and

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!.;
J, •f

~o~

191~

t and 1918 I was in the Ranger aerviae.

..J·
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,;I

,,.,
,#

~·'./

.

Q

How long have you been deputy sheriff?

A

Two months. Since the new sheriff went in.

Q

As

:,

\

de~uty

sheriff of that county, have you had any oom-

\ plaints made to you a.s to the Rangers in that section?

/

\:

Uell, we have had some oompla1nta.
I will ask you if you have had a complaint against Mr.

McXonzie for attacking a boy in a restaurant?
A

Well, there were people reported that to us but that was

before we went into offioe. I heard that talk. Thero has been no
complaint filed against Mr. McKenzie.
Q

There has been some talk to you ebout it sinoe you were

1n office?

"

A

Yes. sir.

Q

Do you know how it oaourred?

A

No, I wasnot there.

Q

Do you know what was done?

MR. KlfIGHT:

Re has answered that question; he said he wasnot

there.
Texas State
Library and Archives Commission
A

I was away from there at the _time; that has been some

 four or :f1ire l'.?lonths ago. that happened.
Q

Have you heard of any other complaints with regard to

tho Rengers, Ranger service there?
A

,

' Well , people come into the offioe and oomplain,-some

ten days ago we had some complaint.
that?

Q

Vi hnt was

A

Mr. McKenzie abused a barber there in town by the name

of Buckner Allen.
Q

Well, Willis, with your eoquaintsnce of the people out

there, what is the opinion of the beat people of that town and
country generally around in thBt county as to the Rangers being
looated in Swoetwater?
A

Well, it is like everything else, Judge; there is two

factions thorc, in regard to that.
Q

!n your opinion whioh faction is in the majority?

A

Well, tho people that do not want them there are in the

majority, by a large majority, aa to that.
Q

People who do not want the ~nngers there are in a large

majority, in your opinion?

A

Yes: very few people that want them there.

Q

Vory few people want them there?

A

Yes, in my opinion, from the way people have talked to

myself and the sheriff.

Q

In your opinion 13n't it imperatively necessary that the

Rangers be moved from thnt town in order to save friction?
A

I believe it will quieten doivn the friction in Nolan

County if they were removed.
Q

How is that?

A

I believe it will quieten down the friction in Nolan Countj

if they were removed and prevent a senitment, if they were removed.
Q

Have you heard people discuss the reguletion of the ~anger

force?

Texas State Library and Archives Commission
A

I have heard that discussed , yes.

 Q

What is the

op1n1~n

of tne best people there generally

as to tho regulation of the

I~anger

force'? Do they think they

should bo rogulated or not?
A

I oould not answer that quostion. I have heard people

discuss it. Of course, the 'PHOple I have haal"d disouss lt
were the people who were oomplainiJ18 nnd that all the people I
have heard dtaousa it.
Q

You have heard quite a number d!souss it?

A

Yee, I have heard a number of good citizens there.

Q

What seoas to be tho opinion of the best citizens? of that

oountry, . w!th reg8rd to the regulation. of the force?

A

I think the arguments of people in regard to it, lots of

them think they ought to be regulated. Now my opinion would not

agree with some of them. I have been a Ranger myself. I have had
arguments with people in regard to it.
Q

Well , do&sn't it

that section that the

see~

.:.-~nger

to be the opinion of the

~eople

in

Foroe ahonld have some regulati·on?

A

Yes, that is the opinion of the peoplti I have talked to.

Q

Isn't the sheriff and yourself eble to cope with t he sit-

uation out there and take care of the condition?
A

Yes: if we were not I would be in favor of us resigning and

got out.
Q

Ia there any condition in that oountry

o~

has

~here

been

in the last several months that demands the maintenance of the
Rangers in

4

th8~

country?

I could not sny. I have not been in Sweetwater but about

two months. ! quit the Hanger servlc<"' and \\'ent to work for thG
sheriff.
Q

\'i'hat does the sheriff say about it'?

A

The sheriff is very much opposed to Bangers being there.

Q

He findn them in his way, isn't that a fact?

A

I could not say •. could not answer that question because

Texas State
Library
and
he neTer
told
me Archives
that theyCommission
r,ot in hie way.

40~

 Q

You . just know he 1s opposed to them being there?

A

lie is very much opposed to it, yes.

Q

Do you know at whooe request the Rangers are being

kept there, stationed there?
A

I have hes.rd there was a little petition, gotten up---

th1s 1s hearaay, I don't lmov. anything about that-- that •here

waa e petition gotten up beeauee

th~y

were moved from there

a short time ego, I understand, and that they were potitioned
back. I don't know whether that is so or not.

They e re the re,

however.
Q

Knowing the people of thst

country, isn't the vast ma-

jority of the people opposed to Rangers being in that seotion?

A

Yes, I have h~d occasion to be ovor the county and around

and the country people are unanimously opposed to it, an~ I
will venture to say th8t seventy-five or maybe ninoty per oent

of the peoP,le in town are opposed to them.
R XAM!lTF.D BY MR• TID'.'fETJL:

How many porsons have told 1ou that ·hhoy di<l not want
the Rangers?
Q

A

That is n quostion I could not answer because we have

friends around the office all the time.
Q

llame some of them?

A

I oould not tell you.

Q

You could not name sny people thet have• aeked ;you?

A

Yea, ! can n~me a number of people th~t h~ve asked me.

Q

Well?

A

I can neme Mr • .Ueggo, Mi'. Charlie Ro~ers. Mr, I:!orrow's

brother-in-law, there: Robert's boy, thore, and .the Commissioner
--two of the Commissioners have menti.oned it to me.

Q

How is the County Judge?

A

I never talked with the county judge with regard to it.

The Judge has been away; he has been eick and haa been away

Texas State
and
Archives
from Library
there for
some
time. Commission

409

 408

Q

Ro~

oth~r

A

I nev~r h!>ve he~rd thorn d1Elcusc it. The~' live oi1t in

are the

the country nnd

r

Commissioners?

have not talked to th nm. Hr.. Childr~a·a and

:!{r. Askins.

Q

Ho~

A

There sre some e:ood peoplo thnt want them kept there

do thooe

peopl~

stand that T.snt them kept there?

..

.

but they seom to want to do it to causo friction between
the
,
\

sheri:!:f' ' e acpartl':lent ~nd the other onea; that io 1.ho w3~ it
loolrs to me.
Q

Have ~ou ever asked s Hsnto r to essi.st :,rou in any ,

c~tter thn~

thny f!iled to assist you?
~nd t~ey

never have o!fered to

assiat · ~e.

A

No:

Q

Do you know of :tny overt act that a Ranger hns .aone

.

~

\

th•t would be a violation of the lawo of the State., an~ ·. a d.~fP11otion of auty?
~ ~
\~~ I
,

A

'

I

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No; 1f there hnd been I would arrest them tll.'! ~8me ~a I

wou~d ay::

'

1

1
:::: ;:: :::· not arrest

the Ranger

th:t

.

:

1

~~;;:the

as3aul t on the bnrbc:: r"?
A

1

'

·
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He die! not ~ ~seul t tho ba rb er; he cursec. the barbel.t..

Outsiders t~llroO. nbout this.

r

\

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w..,nt and ee kec~ the barber. ke

\ ,,

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f1 \

sa1cl th3t Mr. !Tc.Kenzie cursed pretty loud. end uaed. sort'le vc-r"y

bsd 1enc;uage.

.,,

\

\

\

didn't you ~a ko complelnt against him?

Q

Tihy

.A

! f he did not """~ nt to tile a oomplaim; against him that
l

wee not--Q

\t
'1

1>on ' 1i you th:tnli: aa a matter o:f lew , ea a 'peece ·off[icer

th t it is your duty to do it?
.A

Q

.I

.

'

\'

l r.
J1

If the witnesses are wil l ing to appeer ega!nst him ~or

anything he ac id, yes .

I went over and asked---

.\\i \

If you knew a men that hed stolen an automobile v·o,1ld

you weit for the roan who owned the oar to make a

Texas State Library and Archives Commission
or would you arrest him?

\

'

 A

No, that 1s a different proposition altogether.

Q

Do you know arqthing about the man thRt wns hung in\ the

jail?

'

'\

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I

A

no, absolutely nothing. I T1as no t in

'

Sweetwe~er. ' ·~\~o~' t

know anythinB about it.

'\

Exti:!INED BY MR. FORD.
Q

Do you know

o~

any gambling going on out there
I

which some of . the Rangers have boen connected?
A

Well, there is lots of talk there ebout tt.

Q

Haven't you seen some of the written nvidence?
Yes, I have read the evidence.

Q

Who dooa that connAct with---

A

I don t know that I would have any right to divulee,

the

1

s~crats

of the grand jury. I read this through

at1,orney and I have talked to w!tnosans.

\ \,1

}\

tho icon~ty
'

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.

\

I
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Q

Who heve you talked to? ·

A

llose !~ewmen, J. R.BLllingsly f"lld Joe Booth; ,there were~,\ ~

/

'

'•

I

\

Jf\

I

:t~umbAr
Q

•I

of others.

~hey were

the only onee

~

talked to

eb~ut \~

In your opiniOn, the metter of ke ~ping the Ilaneora ther•"\
~

ia pol! tiaal more then anything else•?
A

Th~t

1s my opinion.

I may bn wrong. As fnr as ne3e:ing

\

'

the Rangers there. I don't th1nk we need them.
Q

You are sure of that,

~r!n't

you? Wtt haven l t any

ton.i of law hardly, have we?
A

no;

we have a very qui~t ~own out thore; not enough

to

keep ua busy, let alone the Rsngers.
Q

There is pract1celly no violetione except people coming

in there occs'e:ionally, isn't that the truth?
A

Yes; about the 'flay, a Post City bunch oome down there\ or

something like that.
Q

And pull off s fight or something 11 lce that'?

Texas
State Library and Archives
41
l
EXAMINEDCommission
BY MR. KNIGHT.
Q

rou were 1• the servio• some years?

 r

A

I sorved 1911, a par~ of 1912, under Captain Hughee.

Q

Did you boys have any f1xod placo of stt• 7in3 wben

we:r.e on

t~1e

10U'

i'orce?

A

Yes. sir ..

Q

You v;ould 'he <ll vided into oquads a:1d sent to dl:t'ferent

\
\

parts . in tho State and have headquarters at certain places?
h:?VO haactquarter~~.

A

Yea;

we would

Q

Your tow11 is ~ ra1lrorq1 cnn1;or of tlrn1; whole Western
l

\

country, the best one?
A

Yes; railr.oan center.

Q.

And th~ b oys on duty out in that oountry, there 1:a no

more logical or conveniont place tor efficient service t-0 stop,

\

is there?
A

No, sir.

Some of thaM stay hero; thoro ere some kept at Brown~~
\
Ville?
Q

A
C~

I don't kno\t.

I haven't been in "Brownaville.

\

Do you know \;hnther thoco gontl6m~n ur" being knpt out

there oth~r thsn just simply as a convenient plaoe to radiate

from?

II

A

I coulc not soy.

Q

!t ~ould be a very h~ndy thing. wouldn't it?

A

Y~n,

Q

Thtt e~ntle"!I!an ~rnk~c1 you ~bout tho lav: noid.1np Condi ti on

n1r.

of things out there. I will a~k you to state 1f matters have
not quieted down there,- in other words, Judge Berll aslted

II

the

Governor to send th~ ~engers out thore some ti~e ago: you remem-

ber that?

I

A

Yoe, sir.

Q

At thF.t time you ne~ded them to assist the peace officers

or at least the district juc\ge thought ao?

A

I gu.eas ho thought he did or he would not have ordered them.

41
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Texas
State Library and Archives Commission

Ii
II
11
L

--

~

- s

 Q

Wasn't you designated by the Governor

yoursel~

to be

the body guard for the Judge there?
A

I was instructed by the Adjutant

~eneral

to report

and do what he wanted done, and make arrests.
Q

When was that?

A

That was ln 1917.

Q

How long did the Judge oonsider it necessary to retain

your serv1oee? When did you oeaee thet job?
A

I was sent to the border on the 29th day of December,

1917.

Q

Then things quieted down and the Judge

wa~

willing to

let you go in December, 1917?
A
The I.

Well, he didn't need me. The State sent me down there.

w. w.

business was all over with.

Q

It broke out there and some

A

It broke out there and a number of arrests were made.

Q

The Rangers and the looal officers did all they could

$rreste ~

were made?

and it was finally suppressed?
A

Moat of that happened a short time

bef~r•

I went into

the Rangers.
Q

A great many were taken to Dallas and in a

oon~erence

with the d1strtct attorney a great many promised to behave
themselves and were permitted to go baok to their fam111•s?

A

I think so.

Q

By agreement with them and their oouneel?

A

I think so.

Q

Who was their counsel?

A

I oould not tell you.

Q

They did have counsel from SWeetwater at Dallas?

A

I could not tell you.

Q

You were not there?

A

No, sir;

I was not there.

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 412

Q

I will ask you. Mr. Barbee. if when you were on the

force inforcing the law against the oriminal element. and aow.
in your position as deputy sheriff. if there is not a good

deal of oompla1nt agalnet you among some of the boys?

..

A

Sure:

of course.

Q

And some good people ortJ·totze you?

A

It 1s exaotly pol1t1oal fear.- that is what this is.

Q

When 7ou were on the force. 7our ohums and your com'/

r ades'· good people. or1 t1o1zed you too?

A

Yea; I understood from Captain Jerry Gray that there

~II

were letters sent him stating that I had gone to El Paso to
make an investigation and get 1el1x Jones out of jail. and
such matters es that.
EXAMINED BY MR. T!DWEL;.,.

Q

Do you know of any overt aot in
Whioh the Rangers
.
.

violated a law or mistreated azaybody? If so I would like to
know

I

~t?

A

Personally, I do not.

Q

When did you cease to be a Ranger?

A

On about the 25th day of April I wired the Adjutant

General my resi~nation from San ADgelo. Texas.
I

Q

How many Rangers did you serve under?

A

Captain ~ansom. Jerry Gray and Captain Cunni~gham.

Q

How many were in the company?

A

There were sometimes from ten to fifteen in my company.

'

Q

Where were your heedquartere moat of the time?

''

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\l

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roo•.

,

I

•

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,

•

A

Sweetwater in 191~ and ·1 wae at Eagle Pass. 2

Q

Was there any complaint against you as a Rang~r at that

time up there?
A

Ae I stated while ago. all the complaint I heard of--

they would not tell me personally. nobody wouldn ' t. but the
'

Texas State
Library
and was
Archives
Commission
Adjutant
General
reoeivlng
letters here or my Captain re-

414

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1

11

:~

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11

•

 ported to me, and ask6d me about---

Q

Was there any complaint about those who served with

you and exercised their duties with you from .time tt time. as
a Ranger?
A

I oould not speak for them.

Q

Do you know?

A

There were complaints aga1ast •DJ' man who Will do his

duty, any officer.
You say there are complaints against any man who will
. '
do hie duty? Is that true now, or is this a fictitlous ,
Q

\'.

tranesotion against these Rangers or is there ground for
'

I

~t?

-\

A

I oould not- --

Q

You know whether there is ground for the oompla1nt? ~~
.
There are citizens ~ut there that are afraid Qf t ~
I,

A

[

Rangers. There are good law-abiding oitlzene- -

Q

When you were a Ranger at

~weetwater

1

•

did ·you 'do

thing to make the people afraj.d of you as a Hanger?
A

If I did I didn't know it.

•

\~

~11Y.I

,~~ ~

\'-

I

A

Yea.

Q

Name him?

A

Barron G• Parrish.

Q

Any other man?

A

The other man the people talked of is dead aow.

Q

~ame

A

Ur. White.

Q

How long hae he been deed?

A

Be

Q

Where was he killed?

him?

wa~

killed some time last year, I think.

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

a.1
->
.

·/'

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·~

"\.
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~

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"

 A- I oould not say. I read an account ot it 1n the
paper. in East Texas.
Q

Did you ever serve with him?

A

I have been with him

Q

Wae ho killed in

bu~

~aet

never worked in his oompaft1'•

Texas about the time they were

supposed to attempt to arrest eome slackers over there?
I read it in the paper.

A

I think so.

Q

You were not there and don't know anything about 1t?

A

No; I was at Kagle

~sse.

.'

EXAMINED BY UR. KBIGHT.
Q

Parrish is off of the foroe at this time?

A

I think so.

Q

He at that time wao arresting those people?

A

Yee; what got the Ranger ~er:tioe in bad was men like -~.

Barron B. Parrish cold-decking men of the town and dirf~rent
places. They thought the 8tete should not have a man like
\

A

Yes, air.

\

EXA!fINED BY MR. FORD.

\

Q

He was overbearing and <lisagreeable too, wasn't h•?!;Ir: ,'
(

A

He had that reputa t ion and he d1d th1ase in town th.\t
,,

\,.

....,

\

oeueed Raugere to be criticized and he did things in SWeet4'
.

water such es going and searching ledie.e' trude at their
residences.

I

•

.~
\~
i

You have hed complaints ot the present Rangers being!I
I
overbearing and disagreeable?
I

Q

A

I

Yes, we have had oomplainte like that since I have b~en

in the sheriff's offioe.
Q

You have had complaints of them also exceeding their'

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

\

\~ ·
·'

\~

 authority end raising rows, especially 1n that restaurant

racket,- 7ou had oom-(la1nts regarding that?
That was before our time but there la lots of talk

A

about that at the present time.
Did you ever hear J. H. Beall say anything about a

Q

oouple of prisoners he defendant out there?
A

No; the only thing I heard him speak of the Rangers

that ie in service aow, one that had been raised there, that
talked a little abrupt to him, or smart, or something, but

he 1s not in service now.
MR. KNIGHT: You say he was raised in that county?
He was raised in the county.

A

MR. TIDWEtt:
A

I think he has been discharged. His name was John Block.

.MR. FORD:

of that
A

Is he still in the service?

Q

~oMmunity

Do you know whether or not

the citizens

opposed his appointment?

He wae a man I considered should have been in the

army, service.
Q

He was of military age?

A

Yes.• sir.

Q

Do you know the o1t1zens of that oommunity

. I

proteate~

about it to Adjutant GeneraL Harle7?
A

\

"'
I '

I don't know about thst. I know thetr feelings about it.
\

There were 'two .. or- three in the office playing dominoes there
.. ,,
the other night and they ' were disoussing tt then.
Q

What were their feelings in regard to 1t?

A

The~

wero not very good.

MR. KNIGHT: Do they play dominoes in the sheriff's office?
A

Yee; they were playing dominoes in the sheriff's

office, at night;

we

~on't

oarry that on but that just hap;

pened to be a bunch came up---

State Library and Archives Commission
4 lTexas
l
1

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'

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 EXAUIHED BY YR. LACXEY.
Q

You say there are two pol1t1oal faottons out there?

A

Yes, sir, seems to be.

Q

Do the Rangers out t here now in service take any

part in those political faotione?

A

I have not heard any

oomplai~

about them taking any

poli tieal---

Q

Is the sheriff's department working in harmony with the

RaDgers or are they working separatoly and apart

or

have

•othing to do with ea611 other?

A

It the .Rangers have been to the sheriff's offioe and

offered their assistenoe I don't know it.
·Q
A

You say the sheriff never requested theirs?
No, sir. I will be plaint Wi_th 7ou, that the sheriff's

' department don't care to work With the Rangers.
Q

Do you know of any Rangers that have been gembltng

.

out there yourself of your own knowledge?

A

I hav•--I do from evidence.

I doa't know whether

it is all right for me to ell what I have read

~om

the

evidence?
Q

Have those men bee• indicted?

A

No; they were not indicted.
·.1

Q

'.

You don't know of your own knowledge?
/

'

'

A

No, sir;

~

.

Mose Newman, a ver7 prominent man. , tol.4( m-._i
\

J

that he had played .as man7 as twenty games With a certsi-tu
t

Hone of the Rangers

A

No, sir.

wer~

.

J

1nd1oted?

~

~ ~\ ii\ \ ( "-.. . _

What did B1ll1n.galy sa7 about it?

' i.•
"

A

Texas State Library and Archives Commission
Q

I'

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He had some complaints; didn't think they had tr~ate~{

him right in a oertain betting or gamingor

4 t~

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~·f 'i~
l t
y· ..........

EXAMINED BY MR. PORD.
Q

~~

\

. Ranger there and he wns indicted.
Q

\

What Ranger was that?

eom~thing.·

1

\
?"'-

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"-,
·'

 A

Banger UoXenzle.

Q

Did he tell 70tt bow man7 games he played with him?

A

Bo:

he didn•t ea1 bow man7 gamee. I don't believe.

!hat caused quite a lot of tal.k ·among our o1t1z•ne about the
games there.
As deputy sheriff

Q

good oltizens of th

~en•t

there. been quite a number of

town comple1ned to you ln regard to the

aatio• or those ltengera around there at the depot at Sweetwater and

la~tee

passing through, their attenti ons and eo

on?
I never paid an7 attont1011 to that. as I said While

A

ago they will complain about anything.
~

There has been some

c~mplaint

on that lin•. hasn't

.I

there?

A

There hae b•en come

oom~lalnt; th~ro

has been tnlk--

no cOtlplaint, but talk.
El'AUilfED BY CHA !RllAli BLEDSOE :

Q

oa1'e

For the purpose of 14entlfioat1on, who
wh~re

oondu~ta

the

th1e Ra11ger is supposed to ha'ff made the assault

on the bo;sr!

Green.

A

J. ll.

Q

What is the nam• of the bo7?

A

Budd7 Creeoh.

Q

Is he he?'e?

A

Bo:

he is at Ranger. tterae, working !'or the Soott

Re8taurant Compa117.
Q

You spoke about aome Ranger go1ng

th~oueh

aome

trunks, eearohing them?

A

Yee.

Q

What Ranger was that?

A

Barron G. Parrish.

Q

Is ho still ln the

A

Bo. air.

\'
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'I

~ountr7

v

there?

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

.

'"
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 Q

Can you give us the names of any of those whose trunks

were searohed?
A

Mrs.

Heisl~r

is the lady I heara oomplain. Parrish

was looking for information in regard to this man being aa
I.

w. w.
Q

Was her husband a resident of the cit7 there?

A

Yes. and is now; an employee. of the Santa Fe and a

good man.
Q

What are his initials?

A

Heisler?

Q

Yes.

A

I oould not tell you.

Q

.
What does he do for the Santa Fe?

A

He was cashier but since they went together in the

Ua1011 station he is employed at the station, ! don't know

what he does.
Q

He is an employee at the station?

A

He is not employed at the paaaenBer station.- at the

freight station.
Q

What RaDger was it that was said to have made this

assault on the boy?
A

In the restaurant?

A

Yes.

A

Sam HcKenaie.

Q

Is he the man

you said, that one of the men said waa

in thirty poker games with him?

.\·

A

~enty

Q

Did he say who won?

A

Yes. I think he was made because Sam got o~£ with t~e

poker games.

I

'

..

money.

EXAMINED BY MR. KNIGHT.
Q

Did you or any of the deputies or the sheriff or

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

4 ~ (J

Beall, any one .in authori t;y there, eTer ask the Adjutaat

Ju~e

 General to remove the Rangers

f~om

Sweetwater that you

. know of?

A

I never have. I cou1d not say.

Q

The boy in the restaurant, how old was he?

A

He is a grown man; he has been in the •rtDJ' and die-

charged.

Q

That is all.
******~**~*****~*****

JOHN BRYAN,

called as a witness before the Joint Committee in

conneotion with the charges prepared by llr. John J. Ford,
having bee• duly sworn,

testi~ied

as follows:

EXAMINED BY lm. FORD.
Q

What is your aame?

A

John Bryan.

Q

r.here do 7ou live?

A

Sweetwater, Texas.

Q

Ho~

A

I have lived in that vicinity since 1882.

Q

What official position do you hold there now. ! f an7?

A

Justice of the Peace.

Q

Juetioe of the Peeoe in the Sweetwater preotnct?

A

Justice of the Peace, preoinet number one, res,

Q

How long have you been there? How long have you been

long have 7ou liv&d in SWeetwater, Texas?

si~.
'

Justice of the Peace?

I

'

A

I am serving my second term•

Q

Were you Justice of the Peace of that precinct on or

about the time that Bostiok was placed in jail over there?

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

42(

 A

Yes. sir.

Q

I will ask you if you made an examination 0£ bis body.

went to the jail and investigated that. held an inquest?
A

Yes. air.

Q

What conclusion did you oome to in regard to thatY

A

I made an investigation. I Will stat e how I came to

make it:

Mr. Yarborough was sheriff; he oalled me at my

residence on the morning of the 22nd of Jlaroh. 1918, end
told me there was a man dead down there in the jail. We went
down there and went

1n~o

the jail. _He was on the third

floor. our jail there is a three-story oonstruction. -He

f

opened up a trade leading upstairs into the upper story and
this man was hung to the bars of the cell.
third cell on the left hsnd side as we
third floor.

~ent

I think the
up

atai~s

on the

I found the doors were open up there. of the

cell. I found his body in cell number two. that is m7 beat
recollection; that is the second cell from the landing; hie
coat and hat and his shoes and hose were hung around in this
other
cell. other oell. and the door of the cell was open too.
<
There was no door up there closed in any of those cells and
there was nobody else. no prisoner and no other corpse. I
don' t reokon, up there.
Q

Did you or any one else pull anytbing out of his

throat?

A . Doctor Leach pulled a red handkerchief out of his
throat, one of those cotton handkerchiefs.

Q

Did be have any difficulty getting a it

~ut

of hie

mouth?
A

He said it was mighty hard to pull out. He is not

ve~

stout.

42'~
Texas

Q

How far did that appear to be down in his throat?

A

He said it was way down. he made examination; it wae

State Library and Archives Commission

\

 pretty well stuck doWD in his throat.
How was the fellow hanging-- did his feet touch the

Q

floor?
A

He was lopped up on the floor sorter. in that shape.

bowed up.
MR. KNIGHT:

A

His feet touching the floor?

His feet were on the floor and his knees bowed up

six or seven inches.
(MR. FORD. resuming)

Q.

How was he fastened to the cell?

A

He was tied to the bars.

Q

From your 1nvostigat1on could you s ay anyway how he

could have bung himself there?
idea about it;

A

That was

Q

In your opinion----

SENATOR PAGE:
A

'fil7

Ask him what

~is

I don't know.

verdict was.

I gues~ if he hung himself he had to rear back llke a

ba1ky horse.

SENATOR PAGE:

Didn't you make a finding as Justice ot the

Peace?
A

Yea. air.

SENATOR PAGE:

A

I found a£ter the grand jury made investigation.

SENAIOR PAGE:
A

':ihat did you find?

What did you find before the grand jury met?

I never entered up any verdict until after the grand

3ury met.
Q

Then what did you find and enter up?

A

I entered it up as suioide.

Q

What did you wait until after they met to enter it

~P

for?
A

I didn't know but what they mtght develope something

Texas State
else.Library and Archives Commission
\

 SENATOR PAGE: In

~our

opinion. Judge. was that a suicide?

You would have to ~ake it ~or. one. You oould not prove

A

that there was anything else done.
CHAIRMAN BLEDSOE:

\7e are not hearing anything you are

sa~ing.

A

I . aay we had no proof that it was anything else but ·a

suiaide.

MR. FORD :
Q

You so stated in your verdiot. in your opinion that it

was not a auio1de, though?
!!R • . IGTIGHT:

I object to that.

SENATOR PAGE:

UR. FORD:

No. s1r.

THE WIT:MESS:

tm.

FORD:

Are you tryi:cg to impeach your witness?

What is the matter?

I said in your opinion you did not believe

that it was a suicide?

UR. KNIGHT:

I object.

(Objeot1oJl' sustained by the Chairman.)
THE WITlfESS:

It d1dn'.t look reasonable hardly ~or a

fellow to commit suicide in that shape but I guess he could.

im.

o~

FORD: Q You say it didn't look reasonable?

A It didn ' t look reasonable.
SENATOR PAGE:
Q How came you to enter up a solemn judgment on that ~nd
a thing?
A

I talked ·to the county attorney and that was about the

only conclusion . I could come to.
Q

What did the oounty attorney have to do with ·it?

A

He generally represents the business there.

Q

You en~ered up the judgment because he told 7ou, to?

A

No, sir.

Q

Wh7 qid you!

A

I thought it was the best thing to do.

,,

Q Whether it was a fact, or not?
Texas State
Library and Archives Commission

42~

 A

Yes, sir.

Q

Do

J'OU

know the Ranger serv1ce out there. &DJ' of the

Rangers in service?
A

I

ar.:i

pretty wella3qua1nted with some of them. two or

three.
Q

As Just1ve of the Peaoe there have been ao complaints

made to you

abou~

the Rangers. as to their service out there?

A

Never been any complaints made.

Q

I mean, has anybody oome to you and complained?

A

There has been some grumbling, yes.

Q

What seems to be the opinion of the best people out

there generally in regard to the Rangers be1Dg stationed out
there?
A

Well, there are some good people there that differ, some

of them think we need them there and some of them think we don' •
Q

What do you think about it,as an officer?

A

At this present time I don't think there theyare needed •

.

, There ain' t nothing doing up there.
Q

What ta the majority opinion of the people there? ·What

is your opinion ?
A

I have not talked to many of them. I don' t know but I

think that the majority of them think we don't need them at
this present time. That would be

IllJ"

opinion about tt.

EXAMIB'ED BY lm. TIDWELL.

Q

You live inSweotwater?

A

Do I live there?

Q

In the town of Sweetwater?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

Were there any Rangers about that jail or in tnat jail

et this time?
A

Yes. sir.

Q

Who were they?

Texas
andRansom
Archives
42S StateALibrary
Captain
was Commission
present.
•

 Q

Was he aot1ng as body guard over that prisoner?

A

I don't know.

Q

I am talking about when the man committed suicide

He d1dn 1 t know----

or was killed.- was there any Ranger staying ln that jail?

A

Bone that I know of.

Q

What time did you go there?

A

.About seven-thirty.

Q

In the morning?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

Hadn't some Rangers stayed in that Jail that night?

A

I don't think they did.

The only Ranger I seen present

was that Captain that corning.
Q

Was he there when you got there?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

What did be say about it?

A

He went up there with me.

Q

He went

A

No. from the outside of the ja11.

Q

He was outside of the jail when you got there?

A

Yea, sir.

Q

Who was the custodian of that jail, the Rangers .or the

u"O there with you from town?

~

'

sheriff?
A

The sheriff. I suppose.

Q

Who was the sheriff?

A

Jack Yarborough.

Q

Did he ilver tell you whether or not the Rangers we'r e

\

\

in that ~ail that. night that the man was supposed to have }~1ed?
A

Bo, sir.

Q

Did you examine that man' a

t

tie never told me anything about it • . 1·;.
'

·~

t

·
'

body. remoTe his e1oth~s; 1 f~o

see if there were. any bruises about hlm?

:

~

~

A

We opened up his clothes.

Texas
Library and Archives Commission
42f~ State
Q Did not take them off?

'' \I

.I
\

.;.

 A

No . si r .

Q

Was there any bruise s on his neok. shoulders or arms

as if he had been in any encounter wi~h any person?

A

There was no bruees on him only on his hand~ he had his

hand bruised.
·Q

Were his hands tied together or loose?

A

His hands were looae.

Q

Were they drawn up or hanging by his side?

A

Hanging down;

Q

Did you look at the palms of his han<Je or his fing~rs t o

see if he had
A

be~n

engaged in any encounter with anybody?

I looked at hishands; his left hand.- no, lt was his

right hand, it was ~his hand on this s1de (ind1oat1ng). was
bruaied on the back of it. right smart bruise. skinned plae&.
(Indicated right hand.)

Q

Was that a bruise that had been brought about by oontaot

with an object at the time he was dead or was it an abrasion
made by s strike or liok?
A

I thought that he might heve hung himselt, that he may

have done that himself on the bars.
Q

Whose testimony did 7ou take?

A

Kr. Thompson's, the deputy sheriff.

Q

Anybody else?

A

Several present at the inTestigat1on.

Q

Did you take that testimony in writing? .

A

Mo, sir.

Q

You don't know why you did not make a written repQ~t o~

the testimony for the grand jury?
A

I think .Mr. Thompson' s

Q

Signed by

A

No, he didn' t sign it.

y~u

sta~ement--- ·

and sworn to?
we kept this inTestigation op~n.

I didn' t decide then.

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

\'
l

 Q

Do you know

o~

any particular event or oacas1on when a

Ranger mistreated a c i tizen,

1~

so , state when it was?

A

I don' t know of a Ranger,- just hearsay.

Q

Did you hear about this Ranger that abused the barber

that time?

A

I heard it. ..talked of •

Q

Why didn't you have him arrested?

A

Where they come in and make a complaint. they generall y

~

make a complaint when they want a man arrested.
Q

Did you hear about

that Ranger gambling with some cit i-

zen there?
A

Not until I came down here.

Q

Never heard of that before?

A

I have heard it talked around thet they were gambling

there.

' ·
EX..4MINED BY MR. LACKEY.

Q Heard it talked that Rangere were gambling or

general
.jp~t.
, .

gambling?
Q

Q

Just general poker playing.

. .
Have you had any frictioa in your otf1ce as Justice of

the Peeee
A

~ith

tbe Rangers?

·,

No, sir.

:..

Q

Have they copperated with you in discovering Vit.ations
-: ;.

l\

of the law sinee you have been Just10e of the Peace? ·
A

- &o.~a/J~

They have been around m:r off1oe: the;y have no_t

business there.
Q

I meet them frequently.

41nce,
}
·\/.
. i\ ._ .

No one has filed any complaint against the Rangers

you have been

Q

l\ '.

.
.

A

\

uo.

J~stice

of the Peace?

sir.

•

, •·

I

l

.

}...

'•

'

State Library and Archives Commission
·2~.
4Texas

J.,

\

I

r

Did you examine the .jailer that had the ke7s o~

jail the morning after the suicide?

·'

. ..

,

•

that\

~

I

\

  

 

pug 31.1. 

 

.

,i
~

.

y \!...

.,.
\

\

~

\

\

'J'

\

'\'!'i

\

I

\'

~-

\ 1

d

!\
~ \

\

l\

\

'~

1\
"

Yes; !Ir. Thompson.

Q

Did he state whether anybody had been in there the

night before or not?

\

\

A

\

A

He said this man waa brought in there the morning before

he was found dead on the second morning.
Q

He was evidently hanged the night before?

A

The night afterwards.

Q

Was there anybody in there the night of the hanging?

A

Not that I know of.

Q

Did you ask the jailer about it, did the jailer or the

sheriff hsve the keys?
A

The jailer; deputy shoriff.

I think Mr. Yarborough,

whei he was fetched in there was out of town, and he was turned

over to the deputy sheriff, M.r. Thompson.
Q

Who stayed at the jail that night?

A

Yarbo~ough

Q

Was he there?

A

I think he was there tho night that the7 supposed he

liYed in the jail.

hung himself; this investigation was on the 22nd day of Jlaroh,
1918, and my understanding, this prisoner was fetched in there
on the morning of the 21st 4ay of March and · turned over to the
jailer, Ur. Thompson, and it was the noxt morning that he was

founa dead.
Q

The next morning after the day he was brought in?

A

Yea, sir.

Q

And

A

I suppose he did.

Q

He had the keys?

A

Yes, sir.

Mr. Thompson stayed at the jail that night?

Texas
429 State Library and Archives Commission

 .l

r
'

EXAl!INED BY SENATOR WILLIFORD.
Q

In 7our investigation d1d the t estimony show who macte

the discovery of the dead man?
A

Ur. Thoopson.

Q

nho is Thompson?

A

Deputy sheriff. under Ur. Ynrborotigh.

He ls present

in the house.
UR. TIDWELL:

Q.

Did

the -~angers

have access to the jail?

A

Bo. sir. not that I know ot.

Q

Didn't see them

.A

Bo. sir.

Q

You said just now when he is supposed to haTe hung him-

self;

wit~

any key to the jail?

is that supposition on your part or a supposition of the

.oommuni ty there?
A

That is a supnoaition of the oommunit7.
EXAUilIBD BY lffi. KNIGHT.

Q

Captain Ransom was there when you got there?

A

Yes. sir.

Q

He came up that morning, or down, rather. in company

with Mr. Lud Williams, a lawyer from Waco. didn't he?

A

I could not tell you who he oame down with.

Q

He aame in about seven o'clock and went to a hotel and

he 1eft Kr. William's side to go down to see about his prisoner.
did that develope on the trial?

A

No, sir.

Q

Ur. Ransom was the only Ranger in town?

A

Yee, sir.

Q

Mr. Thompson was the jailer and a deputy sheriff?

A

Yee, sir.

Q

Kr. Yarborough lived in the jail?

A

Yes, sir.

Texas
Archives
Commission
4 )IJ State QLibrary
Thereand
were
prisoners
on the first floor?

 I \
i \

\

•

'
I

A

On the fioor above his residenoe.

"
\

Q

I mean the seoond floor. the floor above his residence?

A

Yes. sir.

\

Q

This man was on the third floor and was the only prisoner

\

up there?

\
\

. ''\
..

\

A

Yes, sir.

Q

Could anybody have gotteD up from the ground

floor~

from

.

the oells of the floor in whioh prisoners were. up to the third
floor without the prisoners having seen them?
A

I should not have thought so.

Q

I v.ill ask you another question: Didn' ·t Yr. Thompson

state there in his statement---

llBE

CHAIIU.iAll~

Let's don't go into that. llr. Thompson is

here.
Q

The grand jury investigated it and refused

(Mr. Knicht)

to return a bill against anybody and you entered a judgment that
'

it was a suicide?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

And it is of record'? That is all·
EXAYINED BY MR. FORD.

The prisoner bad been placed in the jail with the cell

Q

doors open, is that the way it was? in the run-around of the
ja11, is that right?

A

The door was open when I went up there.

Q

Just the main door

or

the jail was the only one that was

olosed?

A

The jailer just unlooked the door as we went up there.

Q

The oell in which the man spent the night, . where his

olothes were, was open?
A

Yes, sir.

Q

And the cell in whioh he hung himself, the door was open,

Texas
4. 31 State Library and Archives Commission

 ..

4

\

is that right?

s •

'
't

i

A

The ael l doors were or>en.

Q

He had the freedom of the run-around: . What kind of 3a11

is that?

\

\

)

A

Three-story constltUct!on.

~

What is it built of?

A

Brick.

Q

When he was in the run-around there wasn' t anything

holding him but a brick wall. was there?

A
of it.

I don ' t know about that. I have not examined that part
It was full of· cells up there • .
EXAUINED 'BY Lffi. TIDWELL.

Q

Could this prisoner have come down from the third floor

into the seoond floor where the other prisoners were and thea
oome on down into the sheriff's

o~f!ce

or residenoe and escaped

on aooount of having the freedom of the run-around on the
third floor?
A

He would have had to get through that door.

Q

I want to 1mow whether or not the door was open or

· whether he had any means to pt out?
·~

I

A

I ·said

~~e

UR. KBIGHT:

door leading up there wee looked.

i : want to state that Mr. Thompson in his state-

ment said that the cell door was opened
the gentleman his

break~aat

by

Hr. Thompson in giving

the following morning, that he opened

it to speak to him and I want to show by the Judge that is what

he testified to there.
THE CRAIRUAN:
MR. LACKEY:

That is not proper, to show it.
You don' t know who had been up there before

went to hold the inquest?
A

Bo, sir.

---------... . . . . 0------------Texas
t1_u
') •), State Library and Archives Commission

y~u

 T. B. THOUPSON.
called as a witness ln ooJlJlection with charges prepared
by

Kr. John J.. Ford,. having previously been du.ly sworn, tes-

ttfied before the Joint

C~mmittee,

as follows:

EX.WINED BY UR. KNIGHT.

Q

What is your name?

A

T. B. Thompson.

Q

Where do you live?

A

Big Springs.

Q

Did you ever live in Sweetwater2

A

Yea, sir.

Q

When did you live there?

A

I left there the 11th day of November, 1918.

Q

When was it that the body of Bostick was found in the

jail?

A

t don't remember the exact date. I think

it was March,

1918.
~as

Q

What

your business at that time?

A

I was deputy sheriff and the jailer. had charge of the

jail.

the

Q

Did you sleep 1n the jail that night?

A

Yea, sir.

Q

Was Jack Yarborough there himself?

A

He was there.

Q

You both slept there that night?

A

Yes. sir.

Q

Who else sleptthere, outside ot Yarborough's family?

A

.No one.

Q

Whose business was it to go up and feed the prisoners in

morning?

A

Mine.

Q

Did you go to feed the prisoners that morning?

43'l State Library and Archives Commission
Texas
A Yes, sir.

 Q

I will ask you if an7 prisoners were at that jail that

Jlight?

A

?lo, sir.

Q

That

A

Yes. sir.

Q

Wbat tioe did they brina him there?

A

It was about one o'o1ock ln the morning; it was after

priso~er

was bro'Q.Bht there b7 the Rangers?

twelve o'olock. I had gone to bed.
Q

They delivered him to you?

A

Yes. sir.

Q

nhat became

A

I can only tell you what they told me.

o~

thoseRangera?

They brought the

prisoner there and wantGd to leave him in jail and wanted to go

baok to Clairemont in Kent County before daylight. I locked the
I

prisoner up and didn t seethim any more.

-

Q

They disappeared?

A

Yes. 'sir.

Q

You did not see &JlYthillg more of those two Rangers at all?

A

I didn • t see anything more of those t wo Rangers at all I

expect for four or

fi~e

days.

Q

Was it the following morning you found his body there?

A

Yes, air.

Q

The very morning he was brought there?

A

no, it was the next mornins.

Q

You .fed bim the next morning?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

He was .there the follow1:ae da7?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

The following morning 7ou found ht s oorpse?

A

Yea, .sir.

Q

Had those Range rs been l» ck?

?lo. sir.
Texas State ALibrary
and Archives Commission

 Q

That was Sam MoXenzte?

A

Sergeant J!cKensi·e and a :f'ellow named Coone.

Q

Tell the Committee what you discovered next morning?

A

Thi.e pr1.aoner Bostick was on the third fioor; there was

no prisoners on that floor but him. I went to the third floor
first

to get his pans and _discovered him and seen he was dead,

and went back downstairs and told ltr. Yarborough and went over
to the court house and told the Juet1oe o~ the Peace, 8lld I
think we got everybody in the oour~ house, we got a crowd and
went over. 14r. Yarborough went to the post office and when he
oame back Captain Ransom came in;

my understanding was he oame

in on the train that ·morning.

Q

Describe Tlhere you found the body?

A

We had what we called the "bull pen" on the third floor,

four cells in that and a 1il#-around in front of the cells. The
prisoner was in the third cell. He bad acoess to the run-around,
when I opened up the door, when I went into hls cell I discovered

him and I turned and went back downstairs.
Q

And left the door open?

A

Yes, left the big door open.

Q

That 1a how came the big door open when the orowd got

there?

A

That . is how oame the big door open when the crowd got there.

Q

It was looked when you went up?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

You unlocked it?

A

I

Q

Captain Ransom oame up there with 14r. Yarborough?

A

Yes, e1r.

Q

Did you see Lud Williams that morning?

A

If I saw him I don't remember it.

unlooke~

it.

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 Do you know whether or not he came to t11wn with

Q

· C.apte1n Rensom?

I

A
'

\

Williams 1n town that morning.

r llllderstand

he oame with Ransom.

'

J

sa~ ~nd

Where :troo?

\

\

A

\

\~~

! \

Had anybody knoolre4 on that door. or been tn that jai 1 .

Q

·\"i~hat

1

night after you retired except yourself ana Mr. Yarbo:tiough?

A

That 1a all.

Q

Nobody had gone

A

l!o. Sir •

there at sll?

Just tell the Cot:Jmittee ns nearly ns

. Q
t~n

u~stftira

thero. wtth

re~erenco

to that corpse:

vou

can the eltuat-

7ou saw 1t suspended and

Re had a small bolt. something 11ko mtne, ano had tied a

A

string 1n the buekle and run that around his neck. took part of
bta s"'eett- and got up at tbe top of the bar and wound 1t around

that bar. had it tied to something like his weint. stuffed a

hanakerehtef' ..a- in his mouth snd just a11d out.
0.

Hov;

A

His feet werf) stiokS.ng out:

like~

~·ere

his :teet?

he waa just standing . looked

when I first diacoverea him, in a lennlng position against

the bars. He was kind of 1ean1nR, in position like this, his feet
kind of stuck out.
Did you examine the hody o! the corpso with

Q

d1aoover1ng

! neYer

A

to the

any

~ront

abrasions or

made eny

re~erence

eT.laonce of e'X'ternal Violence?

e~amination

at th3t time. When I walked

of the cell and looked at him I went back down and

reported to Mr. Yarborough end went ana got tho Juet!oe of the
Peace end the bealth otftoer and when the crowd got up there
I looked

ove~

him but never made any close examinati on of him.

I reckon ten or

~ifteen

were looking hlm over.

Q

You saw Dootor Leach ioold.ng him over?

A

Yea . saw Do.tor Leach looking him over.

Texas
4 :~, ~.' State Library and Archives Commission
~

to

 Q

Doctor Leach ' s idea was that his feet-- -

THE CHAIRMAN:

Judge, 1et's don't

Q

You are certain tnat his feet were on the ground?

A

Oh. yes; absolutely certain that his

~eet

were on the .

ground; he had them in a twisted position something like that
(illustrating).

EXAMINED BY MR. PORD.
Q

How long have there been Rangers

A

I don' t really know.just how long they have been there .

Q

You

A

Four years.

Q

In your opinion are the Rengers necessary there at this

~ere de~uty

out there?

sheriff there how long?

time?

A

t'ell, I really don't know; right around the town there

the 1atter part of the last year that I stayed there there was
really nothing to

do~

Q

.V:aen' t anything to do?

A

No. sir.

Q

In your opinion. haven't you so expressed yoursel f. that

the Ranger force should have some regulation?
A

I don't know. The Ranger rorae never did bother us while

we were there. ny connection

?Ti

th the sherl:f:f and the Rangers

force was very pleasant.
Q

You have ezpressed yourself that tpe Hanger force ought

to be abolished, haven't you?

A

I don 1 t know that I have expressed myself in regard to

but one Ranger who was out there. We had ·one lianger who imposed
on quite a lot of
Q

fo~ks

with oold decks, named Parrish.

Haven't you ta1k&d to me, not stating •Ill' special mia-

oonduot, but haveu' t you stated that the Ranger force ought to
be

ab~l1shed

orregulated in some way?

Texas
43·~· State Library and Archives Commission

 •

A

Ho. I don't think I ever did.
EXAMINED BY MR. LACKEY.

Q

Mr. Thompson, you have sone pretty warm political

factions out there?
A

Yes, they get pretty warm out there.

Q

You know of the Rangers taking part in the elections or

anything of that kind?
A

No; I never heard

o~

tho Hangers taking part in the

elections on any side.
Q

You asy in your foUl· years as

the RaDgera and they

cooperat~d

dep~ty

you cooperated with

with your department and had no

friction at all?
A

Had no friction whatever.
EXAMIIIBD BY

Q

Ir';R.

TIDWEJ,L.

Do you know of any instaDce 1n which a Ranger exceeded

his author1t1 and over-did--or intimidated any citizen out there?
A

No, sir.

Q

Do you know of Sll1 inetanoe in whioh a Hanger or any par-

ticular Ranger was acting in an improper. overbearing or intolerant way towards a citizen or any particular person?
A

Ho, sir.

Q

Do you know of any transaction in

~hich

a Ranger habituall

participated in gambling?
A

Never knew of any of them gambling.

Q

Do you know of some incident out there in which some

Banger 1s supposed to have cursed a barber out?
A

I have never heard of 1t.

Q

When did you 1eave the office?

A

I left the office the 11th day of November,

Q

Do 7ou know anything about a transaction in a oafe

191~.

there in which a boy was struck or maltreated or mistreated?

Texas
tJ '' ~I State ALibrary and Archives Commission
- t)

,

A11 I know is what Mr. llcKenzie told me himself.

 Q

Is that the Renger?

A

Yes.

~e

came into the office one morning and said he

had a diff iculty with a "hasher" down there in the restaurant.•

Q

Did he tel1 you what the trouble was and what was done?

A

No, sir.

Q

Is that all he said?

A

He said he guessed,- I don't remember the exaet words he

did say.

He

said that he had had a difficulty with a hasher

down there in the restaurant.

Q

Is that all?

!

That is about all he said about it. I never heard any

complaint of the hasher.
EXAMIUED BY MR. FORD.

Q

Do you remember the names of the two boys the Rangers

arrested and placed in jail over there. oharged with murder, I
beliove. supposed to be, from Conoho county?
A

I remember one of their names. one of them wss named

Guthrie; I don't remerober the other fellow's name.
Q

Do you know his initial?

A

Sam.

Q

Where does he live, do you know?

A

No, I don ' t~

he was brought there and kept in jail tor

severe.l days.
Q

He was kept in jail there for several days?

A

Yea, sir.

Q

Do you know anything about the Rangers going up there and

torturing and cursing h1m or abusing him pretty bad?

A

No. sir.

Q

You don't know anything about it?

A

No, sir;

Q

Well, would you absolutely have known it if it had ooourr-

nothing like that ooourred.

Texas State
Library and Archives Commission
4aq ed?

 A

?i.te or Ur. Yarborough one would be with them , When they

had prisoners in ja11. It never occurred while I w~s in jail. I
..
bow. When 'Ur. Yar-borough when up "''-th thc?!l I don• t know what

occurred.
EXAMINED BY CH.AmY.AH BT11''DSOE.
..

\

\
'

-~

\~'
~

•

Q

Do you

A

Yea., sir.

i'\

Do 'ou

"1;

kno~

Ranger Hodges?

reme~ber

the circunatancc of n1m brir.Bing

I

in your jail in· 19l8 and keey1ng him in your jail?
\

. r·
i\t
J" -

t1\

T\

A

Yoo. e!r.

Q

~'hat

A

ry:'he:ft •

Q

Hodras went oHt there and brought him in?

A

My under.stnnd is he brought him in !ro111 Sen Angolo.

<1

~here

'\

·~~
/-f ~
r

/I

\

/ ,

I

'

,~

(

Q

11·

~
lf \
I \
1t

/:·j .

~;'~ o'ut
),

~

:i.

/{,,,-y( ' \\
,/

9
/

.

1

•

to haTe been oommttted?

'

A

He broueht hie there ond put h1m in jail.

Q

Yott let him put hirn 1n your jail and keep him there with-

any warl'Bnt on earth?
A

Yes, s!r.

'l

And keep him there a week or ten days?

~ ~ A

'1

euTJ~osed

And he brought h1m there i'rom San J.nselo without a

\Warrant?

'

was the theft

San Angelo.

' A

I

I

41

\

was that negro charged with?

Ke11t him there part of e day. my renollectlon le,

\i.;.as taken out the next morning.

I \'

J \ _Q
~

~I
'I

.~

he

Don ' t you know his laWJeJ;"S came up

~1 ve

or six da7e

~terwards end applied to the district court for an order to
return him and thet he was kopt there for that length of time
in your ja11. for that length of time?
A

The lawyer either came the even1ll8 after the negro was

put in that morning "or tho next morning. I remember it ver7 well;
I had a conversation with this lawyer in an hour

State
Library
Archives
4Texas
4 I)
the nagro
up and
and he
told meCommission
he was coming.

a~ter the~

looked

I don't know Whether

 he got there the next day, that day,-- ! am positive the negro went
away the next· day, not longer than the next day.
Q

~hat

did those Rangers tell you was the reason for bring-

ing him out of the county where he wae arrested and where the
theft was supposed to have been committed?

A

If he gave me any reason I don't remember it.

Q

Was it your ouetom to let one of those Ran,sers bring

.-

anybody they wanted to and look them up whether they had process

or not?
A

We had a custom if a Ranger or officer brought a prisoner

there end wanted him locked up we usually locked him up,
Q

All that was necessary was for a

Ra~er

to bring a man

there?
A

When a Raneer or an officer brought a men there we

umially locked him up.
Q

I am not asking you about anybody but a RaDger?

A

Well, when a Ranger brought a

~riaoner

there we usually

looked him up.

Q

If a Ranger brought a prisoner to your jail you l ocked
I

him up without a warrant?
A

Yes. sir.

Q

You slept in the same jail with Yarborough that night?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

Did you sleep in the samo room with Yarborough?

A

No, s1r.

Q

Did you have in your possession one key of that room up-

stairs?

A

The onl7 big key;we had two sets oi little keys; when

anybody eame in I had to get up at nieht.

Q

You said the man's feet were on the floor?

Texas State ALibrary
Yes.and
sir.Archives Commission

 Q

Row far from where the belt was fastened to the bar

above his head, how far was it to his neok?
A

I don't understand you? \',-here it went over the bar?

Q

Yes.

from the end in the bar where it runs through

the buckle and around his neok?
A

Down to the buokle?

Q

Yes,.

A

The belt waa

looped around his neok; he reached around

the top bar and looked like wound this sheet down or tied it
down to his seat.- l don't remember.
~

Q

How far do you say his knees were from the 'floor?

A

His feet were

sticki~

out; he wse in kind of a leaning

position, something like th1a.
Q

His back or fase towards the wall?

A

Ria back was to the wall.

Q

His feet sticking out in front?

A

Yea,- I don't know,--little bit in rron~.~ he was in a

leaning position. loooked like had just e11pped out.

. Q Did you put him in the cell or did the Ranger put him
\
in the cell?
A

I put him in the cell.

~

Did he go

A

Mr. McKenzie went upstairs with me, I think, as well

as I remember;
Q

I

u~

with you?

am not sure.

You reported thls to Yarborough and before he got back

he went · out and got a Ranger and brought him baok?
·A

N~;

I went and reported to Mr. Yarborough and I told

him I would go to the court house and get the Justice of the
Peaee and somebody and have them oome to hold an inquest and ttr.
Yarborol.tgh went off to the poet o~fice and when he came back

Captainllansom was with him
lJ ...l, ·>"' State
Q Library
Before and
he went'
· upstairs
he went' and got a Ranger?
Texas
Archives
Commission
~

 r

A

If I ain't mistaken he went upstairs and I

could not

be positive whether he went and looked at the fellow before he

went out or not. I aould not be positive whether he went upstairs and looked at the fellow before he went out or whether
\

\ he went right on out, before we took the Juati•e back up there-;.......
I

,, for the inquest.
EXAMUJED BY MR. Kl:lIGHT.
Q

I:f I understand you ·that belt was tied with. a knot on

to this aheet and went right around these different places?
A

Yes, sir.

Q

Did you hang that fellow, Thompson?

A

Well , i£ he was hung I am the man that is responsible

for it. There were
UR. TIDWELL:.
A

DO

Rangers in the jail.

He was hung, wasn't he?

Yeo, but he hung himself, is the opinion we all had of

it.
EXAI:UNED BY

Q

i.m .

KNIGHT.

What was his condition about beine nervous or melanoholy

the day before?

\

·

I

I

A

Yes, he was very nervous.

Q

He was not a bright man anyway, was ho?

A

Didn't seem to be. That was the first time I ever seen

him, Wben he was first brought to the jail.
Q

He wae just as assassin, hired---

Q

The health officer was there before you

down. wasn't he?
"A

Yes. sir.

(Witness excused.)

Texas State Library and Archives
Commission
------0--------

let ~~b&

body

 JACK YARBOR1UGH,

oalled as a witness in oonnoction with o~arges prepared
by l!r. John J. Ford. having previously been duly sworn. test1\

\

~1ed before the Committee, as follo~a:

\

EXA!.fIHED BY lffi. KlfIOHT.

\

Q

Wbnt ta your name?

A

Jack Yarborough.

Q

Where do

A

Sweetwater.

'l

Row long have 7ou resided there?

A

A little over four years.

Q

Where did you go from there ?

A

I went from Rosaoe, or south of lioscoe.

Q

That was in the same oounty?

A

Nolan County.

Q

How long have you been in Nolan County?

A

About thirteen years.

Q

What official position did you ever occupy there?

A

Sheriff of Nolan County.

Q

How long?

A

Four years.

~ott

live?

You served your second term this last term, y ou gave
up o:ffioe when?
Q

A

First of December.

Q

You were sheriff in March of last year?

A

Yes. sir.

Q

Do you remember the ciroumstances of Bostick's body being

found on the . cell wall in 14arch of last year?

.A
Q

A

Texas
41~

Y&a, sir •

Your residence was on the tirat floor of the
jail?
Yea, sir.

Your family
were there?
State Library
and Archives
Commission
Q

A

Yee. sir.

 Q

Kr. Thompson was deputy and jailer?

A

Yes. sir.

Q

Who were in thejail in additioa to your

~amil7

and

yourself that night except the prisoner?

A

'Thompson.

Q

Was there an7 Ranger there that night?

A

No, str.

Q

Was there any Ranger in town to 7our knowledge?

A

No, sir.

Q

llr.

A

Yes, sir.

Q

The followtng morning was there a Ranger in town?

A

Bo, sir.

Q

I mean the morning that the bod7 was found?

A

There was a Ranger c ame in there that morning.

Q

Do you know Lud Williams of Waco?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

Did he come in w1th a Ranger that morning?

A

Yes, . sir.

Q

What was his name?

A

Captain Ransom.

Thompson reoeived the prisoner the

mo~ning be~ore?

I 'phoned to Captain Ransom; they

told me he was on his road to Sweetwater, and oame in on the
Santa Fe at seven o'clock.
Tell your first 1ttf 6rmation that this body was up-

Q

stairs?

Thompson went up to

A
I was
.

in

·""·...

,.

back and said we bad
~

a suicide

so, 'who 'was it?" and he says,

er went

t he prisoners that morning and

the kitchen, my wife and I, getting break:tast. He came

.

.

~eed

b~ck

last night.
0

I says, "Is that

s1 Bostick." and be and I

togetb~

up there to this oell and we came down and I

told Thompson, "You 'phone the Juetioe of the Peace and I
will oall up and see if I can get Captain Hansom and tell him

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

•

<

 about it.

so I called to Sll'Jder and the7 said be was oa his

road. left there that morning for Sweetwater. so I drove
drove down b7 the Wright hotel and oalled. him out and he
and Lud ·Williams oame out together and I told him what had
happened

1~

the jail.

Q

Did he go with you to the jail?

A

He .did not go back with me to the ja11 I don't think.

He was there when the bod7 was brought down.- when the orowd
came down he was standing on the outside of the jail.
Q

He was there at the inquest?

A

No; they held the inquest upstairs in the third

..

floor. Captain Ransom never did go upstairs. if I remember
right.
Q

,·

Some year and a half ago Judge Beall called on the

Governor or the Adjutant General for some Rangers; they were
sent out there in obedience to that request?
A

I had a talk with Captain Ransom; he told me that the

Adjutant General had told him to go to Abilene and he told the
Adjutant General that he was aoquainted with me and if 1t was
just the same he would rather go to Sweetwater, and on acoount
of the railwa7 fac111ties he could get out and in either way
he should go.

lie asked me if it was all right with me and I

.

told him it was all right. would be glad to have him. lie came
to me and asked me if it would be all right with me.
Q

During the oontinuance of 7our administrati~n what were

the relations between the sheriff 's office and

th~

Ranger

force in that county?
A

. l
at~~nd

We all worked together. The Range~e never did

to any of my business.
\

441J

Q

Was there harmony and cooperation?

A

Yes. sir.

Texas State Q
Library
and Archives
Did you.
as shetiffCommission
of that county. have

.

(

\
,i
\

.

' '

~.coas~~ er

.i.

 414 10\l receive authentlc .oomplalnts of OTerbearing oo1lduot
or outrages perpetrated

by

those Rangers upon arq oi'tlsen?

A

Bone Whatever.

Q

Did you ever, in J'OUl" count7. ha-ve 8Jl7 aoqnalntanoe

with tho F. L. P. A.?

A

Tha'f;

ns

Captain Hansom oame there. quite a

b~tore

while.
Q

Did you make any, make a good r'l.eny arrests in tbst

oonneotlon? The F. L. P. A.?

A

Yes, air.

Q

\"ihere were

A

l'ut 1n jail.

Q

Were

~hey

A . Yee.

sir.

Q

th~

oarrled?

finally released?

Juet tell the Committee where and by Whom and the

nature ot the understanding or arrangement.

A

Well~

when we founa out we bad an

--I flgurea that froo all reports and
would have to be something done.

there

organi~atlon

eyer~hing.

there

I bad no oon:rplai nt for those

men: I was up against it. I didn't know what course to pur-

sue, ao I called the Dietriot Judge for thai. a~strtet,
Beall, he lives

there~

w. w.

and I had Ellis Dowthtt, Henry Beall

and posa1bl7 half a dosen more. I don•t remember how men7 I
did have in counoil.

I told them the whole thing, I put lt

up to theQ and showed them a letter that the men had written
I told them. ttrt ls pretty rank," that

from Sourey County.

the7 had one hundred and eighty members hei-e. and something

ought to be done.

They advised me to get the Rangers ln

oase somebod7 might want to sue our bondsmen for false arrest

or mistreatment.
Q

Do you remember who gaTe you that advlce?

A

Judge

Bea~l.

4.4'i.' State Library
Q
JUdge
l:iallaoe
or Judge
Jieney?
Texas
and
Archives
Commission

 A

Judge Aenry, Judge \'fa1lace and Judge Dowth1t were

the three

~ttorneys.

Q

Some ot the best attorneys of that country?

A

Yes. sir.

Q

Go ahead.

A

We put twelve or fifteen o~ those fellows in ja11;

we got John White and Montgomery, a speo1al Ranger, working for
the Cattle Raisers' Aasoo1at1on, he worked and all of us boys
out there during this uprising of the F. L. P. A.

I got one

of them 1n my office and he gave me the ndope", the names of
the officers and the rankest class.
o1t1zens in the F. L. P.A.
in it.

There were lots of good

Some of the best citizens. were

I told him I wanted the names of the officers of the

lodge and the rankest socialists of that lot.

I knew them;

he gave them to me. I gaTe them to the Rangers and the• if we
would strike one of them on the street I would potnt him out
to him and they would put him in jail, and I put quite a '.few

in there 1?J7Self. Went out in the country in my oar and brought
them in.
'

.

Q

You acted on the advice of Beall and Dowth1t in having them come there?
A

Yes. sir.

I went out in the country and met several
'

men myself, and the men ~om the Federal Departmen~ o~ Justioe
oame there to investigate the whole tling.

They went' .baok. ~o
Dallas. the Federal Grand Jury was in session, .and_ the~ wired
me to come to Dallas and bring three of those fellows. with \ .
l

me, whioh I did.

.

those fellO\Vs, and Judge Gant1s of Sweetwater.
one went before the Grand Jury.

\

I w8s .the ~~st

Allen asked me .what I tho~~t

about the proposition in that country.
Q

~

John Ford there went with us, r.epre~ent1~'·

Who was Allen?
Texas
44~ State Library and Archives Commission

,,'.\ \\
,

.

\

.\
·' 'f .

\\

\

 Federal Assistant District Attorney. and I told Hr.

A

Allen. "As far as I am individually concerned. those men out
there are all poor inen. all have families and if they a re
willing and will break up. disband. not meet anJ' more, I am

satisfied and fil3 people are satisfied to turn those people

Re excused me out of the grand

loose."

jury

room.

The whole

three were not in there .over five minutes all put together. When
they came out

h~

told me what they had decided. Re said they bad

all prorilised to disband and , I am not sure, but I am pretty

.

positive that on the advice of Judge Ford.theii , r epresenative,
that h~ gnaranteed that they would disband.

I went out of the

Federal building · ana wired mJ' deputy to release those men I had
in ja1i. · !
Q

.

· Y~u

an~

band
~

'

,,. . ,. J..I

j

,

l

l

4

~
.
I

,/

I

.

~

Yes,
sir •
•

.

/

/

paroled them on their promise that they would dis. .
behave themselves?
\

Q

A~~hing

A

Not

~n

else you want to state to that Committee?

that line. That is the reason those men were not

indicted. '

After that time was there an1111ore of thi s agitation

Q
go~ng

on? ·
2Jo, sir.

iA

Q'

Other good people were Dot decoyed into it?

A

·Absolutely broke it up.

. .
There were lots of good ' citizeus

went into it when they organized lt, but' when you founa one of

.

.

those good citizens in it he looked you in the eye and told you
how he got, ·into 1 t and apologised and got out.
:

that got

citizen

of us boys
• !'

'

i

or

When _you 'tolind a
.

int~ that be always came to y~u. came to: ~ome

the· Federal authorities or some

...

you how. he got into it and apologized.
\
.

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

of

~s,

and told

.

..
~

.

; .
j

I,

·''
\

 RXAUIIED BY MR. FORD.

Q

There never was any more trouble at all was there? They

entirely disbanded and you never had any complaint against any
of those fellows

9

did you?

A

Yes. we had complaints against them.

Q

I mean after this ooourred?

A

Not after they disbanded, no.

Q

Didn't some of them come to you before you arrested

them, wasn't there something of that, and tell you tbey would
like to turn you over all their books and everything, that they
had not done anythiDg?

A

No, sir.

Q

Carter did not come to you?

A

lie came to me but he never did promise to turn over

anything.
EXAMINED :BY !!R. TIDWELL.

Q

Was it possible for a Ranger to have gotten in that
•

,

I

3.a fl that night b7 a ladd&r or otherwise and hanged "that t. ni~

'Bostick?

· A

l

.Absolutely no.

'·

:

p~saessJ.n t~~

I had the keys in my

night.
Q

inoiden1:
· ·
\,
Do you mow of an7 w.ie•fi••«'BfJ or any occurren:c e ·)

out there in which a Ranger has acted

in an

over~earing

mistreated any citizen in the Sweetwater community?' ..A

.

.

.

oulty in the restaurant. I inTestigated

~ad

~

/\ ~

I\\.. "·' · ,

I

Swe&.~at?r
" : \'\1

The ouly thing that has ever occurred 'in the

oommunity is when Sam McKenzie and this hasher

wa7 ot\ ·

·I

\.

°\

d1~17

•

f

that
•

I

'\

"ii•

..

that , diffioult~ mrs~"u.f.
•

•

j

1

,~

I talked to Green, Kl"s. Allen 1n there also. ' · I talke4 ' to \ "~
\ r

.' H

the other day. She was in the rostatt1"ant and did not hear
~~y
. . .. .
the conversation. I found that this boy is a kind ~f ,smart \Ale'\k•
\

in other words. if you go in there and order anything he 1d

\
1

inolined to be kind of smart; he might not have intended ~tfl8)

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

.

'

\

 when he said what he did to Sam.

Anyhow, the conversation

oamo up. I disremember what . he said to Sam, anyhow, Sam threw
a salt cellar at him and used a little rough language, . which
any of ue would have used in an ooourrenoe of that kind, but
it didn't amouht to anything and wasn't any more sa1d about it.
Q

That is the only incident that happened?

A

In regard to this barber now--

Q

Were you sheriff when that happened?

A

Yes, sir. I am not right sure about that.

I believe I

was. It was at the time this Dudley White was killed, and this
barber made some alight remark, 1n regard to th•t and it made
Sam mad. I think, and Sam made some slight remark. There wasn't
any words passed that I know of, and I expect the barber cursed
as much as Sam cursed.

~e

lie is pretty bad to swear himself.

Dover made any complaint about it, the barber never lrlade atey' oom-pla1nt about it to me and I notice UoKenzie goes in there end
shaves when he is in town. I don't think they are at outs about it at all.
Q

. i

State about when they brought a negro there -~d ~~ \
.

him in jail without a warrant?

A

'

I was out at the time.

Bill Futoh is the man. epec,al
,.
agent for the Santa Fe; be came there and got Hodge to go get" ,"
\

this man, that he had a complaint for; when he came back and ·t\'
found he had no complaint Captain Ransom made

h4~

H~dge".~\

and

~

I

himself take this man back to San Angelo jail and deliver
to them.

Be was put

1~

hi~t

. 'l:
I

day. I believe.
Q

What was the aharge against the nogro?

A

Theft, ! believe.

Q

Tho ft :from a railroad oar?

A

Theft from a railroad car.

~,.

\

.-

'.·,
I

\.

\

\
I

t. \\

\

.'

\

Texas
Library
Archives
Commission
41\ J. State Q
You and
understood
it was
a Federal violation?
t~

\

there one day and taken out . the ne'' ·~· 1
.

~

,

'

l

"

. ,

 4lJO

J.

No. sir.

Q

Theft from interstate commerce shipment is a Federal

violation?
A

I know but I don't think this was an interstate ship-

Q

You don ' t know?

A

I am not sure about it.

ment.

EXA?fiN.ED BY MR. KNIGHT.

Q

half?
·A

Sam MeXenzie has been out there about a year and a
Same oame there just before Christmas, last December,

was a year ago.
Q

Did any other aitizen there loose their temper during

that pe1od, get a little off, or lose their temper for some
reaae? Ia that the only man that lost his temper in that county
dur1ng that tim&?

A

That is a common everyday occurrence.

Q

In tact, he had forgotten the incident, he still con-

tinued to go to the barber ship?

THE CHAIRHA?l:

Judge, I suggest that you let the witness
' .

do some of the testifying.
Q

As a matter of fact, did you oons1der the barber inoi-

dent seriously, or not?
A

I took it as a joke more than 'anything else.

Q

He continued to go back to that same barber shop?

A

Yes, continued to patronize that barber.

. .,
I

Q

·no

7ou know

goes and exposes his

&Di'

li~e

reason in the world

why, because a m.'ni

as an • ..,.,. of outlaw.ry,he

shoul~

\

take

the insUl.ts of any other man?
A

\

No, I don't.
,,

\
'i

\

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 EXAJlIDED BY MR. TIDWELL.
Q

Do you think the presence of Rangers at SWeetwater

at this time is so aggravating to the people there that they
ought to be removed?
A

I will tell you about that:

I have heard nobody say

anything about the Rangers, while still at the same time, you
take the class of people we have there, you take those boys

t~wn in jail. they don't like m~ and they don't like any
officer that will enforoe the law, some of them

don't~

and that

olass of people don't like the Rangers. Those Rangers have aot
anything to do. there and only stay there on account of the
facilities for getting in and out .there. if I understand it. I
don'~lfifOW'

the

eherif~

of any serious objection, while I understand they and

don't get along very well together.
EXAMINED BY UR. !1ACXEY.

Q

You understand that is their headquarters for that ~er­

ii/1 toey?
A

any of

th~ee

trials and murder oases where they

are called there and on account of the railroad facilities. as
Captain Ransom explained to me. they were stationed at · Sweet- .

water.

EXAHIBED BY UR. TIDWELL.
Q

What do you know about the Rangers that were in that

poker game. testified about while ago?

A
way:

-...

.:~ ..

........

I was sheriff at that time. I will answer that in this

the grand jury worked some eight o~ ten days and the cnl7

bills they found was I think around thirty bills for gambli)lg,
gaming. and those thirty bills were age1net four ·or five bo,s.
and that ia the only bills returned.
Q

Do you know on 'Whose testimony those bills were found?

A

No. I don't. i think they were found on the testimony

,.o.f a fellow by the name of--Texas
4 t ) '.State Library and Archives Commission

 !HE OHAIRlUB:
b1t dangerous.

That is gottlng into where it is a little

You might aek him 1f any ot the11 were returned

on a Rallger's testimon7.
UR. LACKEY: Were the Rangers 1nd1ated?
A

No, sir.

There being an. apparent11. at least, c11Tlded

MR. KNIGHT:

sentiment as to the Rangers there. there would be

ftO

disposition

on the par:t of a Nolan c ount;y grand ju~ not to lndiot a Ranee~

for gambling if the evidence suggested it?

A

No. sir.

rm.

FOOD:

As a matter o'f faot. MoKensie did play in some

of those games. dion't he?
A

If be had I would have reported him to the gr8nd Jnr1

and done r::q boat to have got him indicted. because he is no
better than arq other private c1t1~en when it comes to violating

a lew.
Q

You don't know. as a matter of faot. who all were play-

ing ln the

A

go~e.

do you?

No. eir.

(At this. time the Joint Committee· of the Bouse and
Senate to investigate the charges against the State Ranger Force
recessed until nine A.

!t••

Friday. Februa17 ?th, 1919.)

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 FRIDAY. FEBRUARY '1th.
,/

M 0 R B I N G S E S S I 0 H.

The Joint Committee of the House and Senate to investigate
the oharges aga inst the State Ranger Force convened

a~

ten

o' olook, A. M.

CHAIRMAN BLEDSOE:

Gentlemen, let ' s have order. • • •
By agreement of counsel all witnesses ~rom SWeetwater are
excused :fir-om fll.rther attendance on the Committee and they oan
go home when they please, ~xcept Judge J. H. Beall.

You gentle-

men who have been so anxious about your 011 wells and siok wives

can go too.
------- - - - 0----~-----

JUDGE J. H. BE.ALL,

haVing been previously sworn, testified before the

Joint Committee, as follows:
EXAHIDED BY UR. TIDWELL

THE OHAIRHAN:

Judge Tidwell, you understand the partioul.ar

phase you desire to interrogate Judge Beall on.
Q

You live at SWeetwater, in Nolan County, do you?

.A

Yea, sir.

Q

What 1s your age?

A

Sixty years.

Q

How long have you lived at Sweetwster?

A

Thirty-nine years.

Q

What is your profescion?

A

Lawyer--an attorney.

Texas
StateQ Library
andhave
Archives
Commission
How long
you been
practicing in that eountr7?
4 ,)r. ,)-

 A

About thirty-three or four years. the thirty-five--

thirty-six years.
Q

There is some testimony before this Committee that I

desire to inquire about with reference to oond1t1ons there
about the people desiring Rangers removed: are you pretty
well acquainteo With the sentiment of the people there with
reference to the Rangers remaining in Sweetwater and about
Sweetwater?
A

.

I don't believe I oan answer that question affirmatively.

I have heard more of this matter in the last few days than I
have ever heard before.

Q

When did you first hear of the Ranger situation being

diaouseed?

A

Bo.-

I mean as to t he general public sentiment. Well,

I have heard critio1sms , but 11m1tea. for the last two or three
years, couple of years. Some criticism but I could not state
that that is at all general.

Q

Well, state whether or not you think t he majority of the

people in that city. that county. desire that those Rangers be
removed, and if they do state why they desire them to be removed
from that section?
A

That is a question that 1s pretty difficult for me to

answer from the fact that I have

no~

canvassed the matter at all

and I have not heard expressions
,

~rom

anything like a majority

of the people. In fact, what conversations have occtrred 1n Jll7
· presence in regard to 1t have been so limited that I fell that
I cannot. am not qualified to answer the
Q
exprea ~3

queet~on.

Well, of those with whom you have talked and heard
t hemeeives are the majority in favor of having the

Rangers remain there or do they desire that they be removed?
Well,and
now Archives
I have not
oast up as to that feature. Possibl7
Texas StateALibrary
Commission

 espre ssions I have heard as to --they are limited. there has
been a majority o~ those who have apoken of the matter in my

presence favorable to the removal of the Hangers.
\'i hy. and what reason do they g1 ve for their sentiment

Q

that way?

A

Well, 1t seems to be that they reoognize that our

Sweetwater community is a law abiding and o1T1l community and
the presence of the Rangers is unnecessary and that it is somewhat a refleotion upon the town, the community or the vicinity
~or the Rangers to be stationed within its

midst,t

think, has

been about the chorus of the expressions that have Jaeen made tn
f117 presence in reference to the

Q

Rangers.

Have those people or do those people so regard the

Rangers by reason of their intolerable or overbearing aets ot
the Rangers or just stzmply beoa~se they think it ia 'a reflection
upon that community?
A

I have heard expression of that nature. that they are

-

excessive in their acts towards thoa· e who are supposed to be
orim1nals or that the7 have acoueations against but I don' t
think I have heard any expressions of excessive aots on their
part towards the public generally at all.
Q

The major portion of the complaint is by persons who

·have accusations against them and not be peaceable. law abiding
citizens, as J understand you?

THE CHAIRMAN:

Gentlemen, ;you must stop that private con-

versation back there and if you must carry it on go out intbe
hall.
A

I could not answer that question in the affirmative 1n

as much as I have no r~colleotion of discussing this matter with
any one having a complaint against the Rangers tor personal
treatment towards them except a couple of defendant that Judge

Texas
State Library and Archives Commission
t1 . . '}
... ,) ft

 Henderson and I defendant;

of course I am personalLy connected

with that matter but otherwise I do not have aiq recollection
of any such complaints.
Q

I want to get you to state whether or not you know

of any instance in which a Rtnger or Rangers have been intolerant or overbearing towards a law abiding oitizen in that eommuni ty?
A

~ersonal

Q

Yes.

A

I have none.

knowledge?

Do you kn.ow of any person that oould enlighten us
along that line?
Q

A

I have not thought of a matter of that kind. I cannot

answer that question,"yes" or "no".

I have not considered that

proposition. I don't recall that I can think of people who could
give the information 1 and I might be able by oasting over the
oit1zensh1p to to do ao, but just at this moment I have no one
in mind that I oould give you their names.

I have heard within

the last two or three days of some transactions in which 7ou
had witnesses from Sweetwater that possibly knew things of
that kind, but personally I know nothing about lt at all.
Q

Do you know of any serious oom~laint on the part of the

law abidine citizens of Sweetwater with reference to their
acts?

A

I think the wo ~st I ha~e ijeard, that is

indicated to

me as being some abusive conduct on the part of the Rangers towcrda parties at the OOZEY OAFE of whom you have witnesses this
morning; of this I have heard--Q

That is the only instance you have heard of, 1s lt?

A

I could not say whether that is or not. I have paid

no attention

to it and I don't know; possibly I have heard of

Texas
State matters
Library but
and IArchives
Commission
dJo:,)r: c') other
don't recall,
except the two defendants that

 I spoke of representing. They made complaints to me of
treatment whieh they received

but that is al1 I know about that.

What they stated to me as conduct towards them on the part of
the Rangers but I have no personal knowledge of that.

Q

I want to inquire about the man Bostick that was found
I

dead in jail. Do you know of any well ~unded suspicion that
leads you or the people of that community to believe that
that man was hung by Rangers in the jail or otherwise mistreated
by Rangers?

A
is well

Judge, I can't say. There is a suspicion but whether it
~ounded

or not I Bo not know.

I was not in town on

that oooaaion. I was not there and did not see the body, was
not at the ja11; had no oonneotion with that investi.gation
whatever.

Now, whether this suspicion is well grounded or

not I don't know. I know nothing of it personally. I have heard
the suspicion discussed. some affirmative

susp1oi~n

expressed;

I have heard it denied, that 1s, affirmatively denied and

negatively expressed.

Now that is all I lo know. ·I have no

knowledge as to the facts that would authorize me to say that
the suspicion was well founded.
Q

Do you know how the sheriff

in charge of that jail at

that time was regarded, with reference to being a fearless.
faithful and law abiding otfioer, Yarborough, I believe that
was his name?

A

Jaok

~arborough;

I know him. I don't think I ever heard

him discussed as being fearless but then he is oonsidered as
law abiding. I never heard any one discuss his qualifications
as to oowardioe or bravery but then he is gegareea as a pleasant,
smooth and courteous officer, but I have no recollection of &DJ'
expressions as to his fearless attributes or oharaoteriatioa.

Texas
4:59 State Library and Archives Commission

 Do 7ou know anything about how Thompson. that ja11er,

Q

wae regarded as to being a faithful, law abiding deput7 sheriff,
in oharge of those men?
A

Yes, I have heard expressions but about the same as to

Jack Yarborough and in oonnection with the handling of the
jail by the officers, my understanding was, and I will state
that from just a general discussion, that is, general statements without any special discussion with the officers in regard to it, but the Rangers in plaoing their prisoners in the
jail were given the privilege of the jail without supervision
o~

their conduct towards their prisoners on the part of the

sheriff.

That is as r understood it.

Q

You did e general criminal praotioe?

A

Bo.

I try to keep out of the criminal practice

all I oan. I do not mean to say that ! was forced· in_to the

J;>ractioe but I mean to say I was not following the ariminal
practioe as a profession.

1.fy

line of

bus~ness

ls o1v1l. I took

oooaeionall7 a criminal oase but 1t is only incidentally. I
am not following it as a general practice, but in this case
~enderaon

I refer to I took that in connection with Judge

of

Milao and those two defendant, and in the handling of those
oases I would go to the Hangers for

~ermies1on

to see and talk

with the defendants, not to the sheriff, because my understanding at that time was that the ~rlsoners wore ~nder the control

and management of the Rangers and not the sheriff.
Q

Did the ~angers have acoesa to the jail?

A

No;

Q

Where would you go to get admittance?

A

I think I went to the deputy sheriff or, I don't remem-

for permission J would go to them for permission.

ber, poaaibJ.7 !tr. McKenzie went with me once to the jail. I
don't Library
recall,but
would go Commission
to Mr. MoKens1e for
Texas State
and IArchives

permission.

 I mean with refe r ence to admittance when they wou1d

Q

open the door

and get in, wou1d you go to the Rangers?

No, that would be usually to the sheriff or his deputy

A

sheriff or his o:ffice, some one in t}\e office of the sheriff.
Q

Thompson?

A

Yes, s1r.

Q

That is all.

--- --- --- ----EXAllillED BY CHAIRY.AN BLEDSOE.

The fact is, at times it was felt by some of your

Q

citizens there that the Rangers made themselves a little too
prominent around town?

A

Oh, I have heard those statements, yea.

Q

The fact is, llBlOng some ot them, your citizens, and

among some of the good men of your town, they acted as an
irritant *8d the people f elt they ought to be taken awsy from
there?

A

Well, it may have been off ensive to some

o~

them, Judge

Bledsoe. I would not say that it had that ef£ect, but from the

expressions I heard casually possibly that existed.
Q
town~

A

It was a feeling rather of a goneral nature around the
wasn't it?
The express ions seemed to be that they reall7 did not

regard the Rangers as necessary there and it was somewhat often-

sive for them to be there.
Q

The fact is. at this time you have rather a law abiding

and q~~' agrieultural and railroad town there. haven't you?

A

Well, I think we have one of the best classes of people

there in the country, one as good, I won't say tho best.
Q

And one that has little use for an additional class of

officers?

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

4G1

 A

I don't think we have any need for the Rangers locall7.

Q

As fsr as your county is concerned?.

A

Yes, sir.

Q

You have no large or1m1nal olass 1n your eounty at .

A

.No, sir.

Q

You have always been fortunate in having good otfiGers,

all?

haven't you?

A

I think so. I haven t heard any co~181~t. I don't
1

care who you have in office. somebody- w111 make complaint oc02 sionally.
the trouble existed in the county north of you?

Q

~ut

A

North and Northeast, yes, the troubles with wh1oh we

have been connected snd the troubles occurring at SWeetwater
'

\ti

\

!"1

.. ...

have usually been -pa.rtfea· coming in there, Sweetwater b·eing a
railroad town, parties coming in there and pulling· off their--Q

Shows?

A Yes. air.
Q

That is all.
EXAHIDED BY MR. KlUGHT.

Q

If I catch your position, it is largely predicated

upon the idea on the part of a . great many- of your good people
that tbo Yary ~act of the Rangers being there ia a reflection

upon your

communit~?

A

Yes, and some of them don't like it.

Q

Have the Rangers at one time---

A

I w11.1 state in connection with that. that this offen-

sive featurehls

reall~

led to some little dieturbanoe in some

wa7; what they were I don't know.
Q

As I understand it,

sweet~eter.

is the railroad center of all that

oountr~?

Texas
and
Archives Commission
c·,? State ALibrary
Y
1

4l

~

es. s r.

as a matter of fact .

 Q

And it is the best point from which to radiate in

co~er­

ing that country?
A

Yes;

Q

No~,

we elaic that, anyway.
if the people really kn9'ff, in other words, is there

any objection to Sweetwater being usea as a radiating point

for the Hangers?

They have nothing to do with local

aff.airs unless called on, no more than they would here,- Would

they objeat to Sweetwater being a radiating point for t he
'

Ranger service?
A

Oh, I don't think so.

Q

If they knew that was really what it was?

A

Certainly;

Q

Tho difficulty is, a greet many of them t hink they are

! don't think so.

there for the purpose of espionage and are a refleetion on them?
A

Yes. sir

•

Q

There is no reason for a man to be criticized

than any where else--

out there

Do you remember the time you and I were

attending the Hamm-Hamsey meet1ngY There was a great deal of
er1t1oism of that great rev1Tal,
A

I think so.

Q

All right.

was~'t

there?

Stand aside.

BY UR. LACKEY:

Q. At

one time they did keep the Rangers

out there, about SWeetwater, needed them?
A

Do you mean in that distant past?

Q

In the last

A

There has been two or throe oooasi'ons. that is two,

the ooeurrence

o~

'tWO

or three years?

the citizens' meeting and having difficulties

there but there is no local cause. wait,- there was a political
measure, occurring a couple of years ago, which we recognized as
being a movement on the part of the I. W. W. 's where we felt

that Ranger service was very beneficial in that particUl.ar.

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 Q

Ras not a lot of this complaint grown out of the

arrest of some of those I.

w.

w. •s or whatever that faatioD

was out there.- dian't a lot of complaint come from that
faction?
I oould not say; there has been nQne of that d is-

A

ouseed by any of them with me. I don't know.
Q

You have two political factions out there yet?

A

Well, J regarded the I.

w.

W. proposition as a dead--

I will say a dead nucleus--it was a nucleus.
Q

Outside of that have you a political faction out there?

A

hell . I could not answer. I could not say that there is.

~-

Tht~ t

A

What do you mean by faction?

is all.

You mean a political

faction?
Q

Yeo, a political faction or any kind of faction you

want?

A

There are oontraey and divergent views on l.ooal question$

there. For instance·, in our municipal government there are
factions, in our county there are opposing parties, like the
political measures of the government. We have our local d1fforonoes but now as to any special factions I could not say
that there is.
Q

What is the politioal feeling between the present

county local
A

of~icers

and the .l'tangers?

I thought that it was good and without

~ny

friction

whatever but I heard yesterday ovoni?l8 in conversation for
. tho first time t}'.lat there pos sibly was some friction but I
never heard of it before.
Q

They do not r.ork in harmony, you understand?

A

My understanding was that they .4'.m had been working

in harmony.

4(){
Q
Is it your understanding now that they do not work in
Texas State Library and Archives Commission
harmony?

 A

I could not answer

that.

! heard yesterday evening to

the first time that there waa some little friction but it was
~hether

not explainea.

that exists or not I don't know.

I had

never heard of it before.
Q

That is all.

BY MR. KNIGHT:

Q Do you remember that man Will .r.iewman

that was at lar~ out there in that oountry a good long While?

A

You mean T..oveman?

Q

The Rangers finally got him, he was on the scout for

two or three years?
~

He was living at Poet.

Q

Garza CTounty?

A

At Post; he was the man that was charged with killing

Cullen Higgins.
Q

Th~

A

I understand the Hangers 8rrested him; whether the

Rangers arrested him?

Rangers arrested him I don't know. The Rangers were there. I
understand

:u-.

Norman Rogers, I think, secured his surrender.

I think Ranger White was up there at the time.
Q

Is there any idea in your mind at all that either Jack

Yarborough or TJ:lompson. his jailer, hung that man, Si Bostick?
A

What is that question?

Q

Do you think it is possible that either Thompson or

Jaok Yarborough would ba a party to the hanging of--THE CHAIRMAN: Wait a minute. You are asking him if there
is any possibility. in hia mind.

Q

All right; I will ask you to state. fudge. what

their oharacter and reputation- -

A

Oh, I never imagined a thing of that kind.

Q

Every other good citizen out there, every man you have

heard o:f--CHAmUAN: Judge, let ' s don't go into too broad * field.
4GS StateTHE
Texas
Library and Archives
Commission

Let's confine ourselves---

 UR. llIG!IT:

I wanted to ask if he even heard any other

good citizen ever susplo1on-1'BE CH.AllUillt:

I am interpoaidg objection. I dc,n' ·t want to

investigate the thoughts of every other good Q!ti?.en.

MR. KNIGHT:

I•~

{ Jt~
\

/,

I
f

f

'\

/>·
~

~-!'1?11E.SS:

THE

Understnnd • Judge. I am not '{ias sing on the

proposition as to whothor he was hung or nott but as to those
two otfioera ycu spoka of--

1!

llR. ENIGR'!':

1

l
I

\
\

All right.

A

I don't

'fil.

Kll!CHT:

I understs.nd.
kno~

a thlng---

If thsy were the only men in thst jail that

n1ght, having charge of it. and 31

Bos~ick'o

body was

~ound

as it was the next mo~g. would you say th~t Si oommttted

"'·

au1oide, juet from the reputavion of the men?
THE CH&IRMA?l:

I think 1 t 1 s an im·propol:' que~~t1.on~ gentle-

men.
"1R. XNIGH'.i,:

all right.

HR. CANALES:

MaJ I be

Tim CHAIR:J!lf:

MR. CANALES:

permltt~d

to eek one question?

Cert~1uly.

Q Do 7ou say Judg& Knight was criticized

for attending the Hat:m!l-I'<amaey meeting or for

u:al~ng

liamm-Ramse7

spoeohes 1n that county?

"
I attenaed that meeting 11th
e riumber of good men end I

A

believe Judge Z:night,- I don't
rence or

in~erruptions

rem~tnb(}r

of ney special occur-

on bis part at thct meeting •

. THE OHAilll!AlI: · Was it so unusual for him to go to ohuroh

that it was tallced about?
A

It attracted some attention in that particular.

UR. KNIGHT:
A

You escorted me out of town. 41dn' t ,-ouY

Yes. sir.

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 o.

Valle. du17 sworn b7 !!zt. !14well, of the Joint Committee,

to act as interpreter. interpreted the oath to the witness
JESUS VILLEBEAL,
who. having been dul7 sworn, teet1f1ed, through the
interpreter

c.

Valle, before the Joint Committee, ae followa:
EXAUtllED BY UR. OANATES.

Q

What ls 7our name?

A

Jesus Vlllereal.

Q

Where do 7ou 11ve?

A

Dear Coplta.

Q

What count7?

Q

It is charged here that on or about September of last

A. Duval.

7eer that 7ou had been tortured and been mistreated b7 some
R8D8era?
A

(By iaterprater: "He don't understand the question • .He

ss 1s he hes to teat1f7 to the truth.")
Q

Tell the Comolttee just what happened.

HR. TIDWELL:

I suggest that !!r. Conales tell us what the

transaction is.
llR . CANALES:
A

It 1s the second oharge.

On the third da7 of September I went to Bio Grande City

to bring a nephew ot mlne, named lilguel Vlllereal to be married
at Falfarias;at one o'olook on the fourth at the ranoh of V11lereal there was a ranger standing out there.
Q

One o'olook in the morning or afternoon?

A

Ono o'oloek in the morning:

And he told me to stop ana

I stopped there. He asked me, "Where do you oome

~rom?n

I told

him. "C9p1ta. !ens.'' Be asked me, "Whore are ;you going?"
I told hlm nTonlght I would sleep at rrq ranoh and in the morning
I

111 go to Roma to receive these passengers.ff '!'hen he asked

me toLibrary
do him and
a ~avor.
to t Commission
ke him over there to
Texas
Archives
4G? State

where h1s oar

 was as he had no water, he had run out of water.

I asked him

how far. and he told me it would be a mile or three-fourths
of a mile.

I . told him to jump in my car. We got there and I

was arrested, pl.aced under arrest.

They took out, one by one, ·

all the boys and when they came back they took me out by myself.
Then they told me to stand--lay flat on my back. Then theJ asked
me if these boys were going to aoross
"no, sir."

~he

river.

I told them

Then they got hold of me by fII3 throat, mouth and

nose and they held me that way about five minutes. They told me
to speak. I oould not speak on account my breath was about all
out, you know.

When I recovered myself I told him there was an

untruth, the boys were not going aoross the river but I was
taking them to Roma.

Then the cooked pistol was put into 'art

mouth. They told me I would tell the truth or they would kill
me. I told them to do as they pleased but I was test1f11ng to
the truth. They told me then, "Thia is the last time you are
going to be asked about it. If you don't tell they have gone
across the riTer we are going to kill you."

They put the oooked

pistol in fil7 mouth for the second time; then they told me what I
had to say

bu~

I could not speak on aocount of haViDB the gun

in my mouth; so they pulled the gun out of mt mouth and I told
them that it was not true.
to place a knife in my hand.
other, "We will put it there
he had attaoked us."

Then one of them told the other one
"Bo, sir", one of them said to the
a~er

he is dead and tell them that

I told them to do as they please. Then

they told me to get up. !hen I told. them to get off of me so I
could get up. Then I got up. They took me to where the other
boys were.

~

companions; then one asked them if it is true

that this fellow was taking you across the river. and the boys
said, "yes, sir."

I told them that they were telling a lie.

Then I said, "All three are lying."
towards the side;

Then they told me to go

the1 took us to the .post. or oamp. and they

Texas
46~ State Library and Archives Commission
~

 left us over there under arreet. placed us over there unde·r
arrest. They brought us up to Rio Grande and they turned us
loose on a bond. and on the second day of December, last term
of oourt, at Brownsville. we were turned loose.
Q

Do you know any of those person that abused you in that

A

I know three of them.

Q

Name them?

way?

A.One of them ia ca1led John Edds. They told me one of them
was named John Edds.
Q

I e he here today'?

A

I have seen him here in to'WD.

Q

Tell him to stand up and see if he can identify him.
(John Edds stands up and is recognized by the Witness.)

Q

Was he shaved like that the day of this attack on you?

A

The time I was arrested he bad a little red mustache.

Q

What ' are the names of the othe·r s?

A

I was told his name was Roy--aomething like it.

Q

Royal Collins?

A

That very same gentleman. yes.

Q

They were before the Federal Grand Jury last December.

weren't they?
A

Yes, sir.

:tm.

C~NALES:

That is all.
EXAMINED :BT UR. KNIGHT.

Q

How old was his nephew?

A

I am not pretty oertain of it but about twenty- two

years, more or less.
Q

Bow old were the other two young men in bis car?

A

The other two boys they were about eighteen or nineteen

years, more or less.

4 l~ 9 State QLibrary
Had those boys been registered at that time?
Texas
and Archives Commission
A

..

It was before the registration da7.

1

 How long before?

Q

A

About eight days before the day ot the registration.

Q

How far were they apprehended from the river?

A

He said he cannot be positive as to how far the river

le on aooount of the new channel, on aeoount of the overflows
of the river.
Q
A

You are familiar with that country, are you not?
Yee, sir.

Q

Can't you approximate the distanoe you were from the

river when 7ou were apprehended?

A

I was arrested on the main road and trom there to the

river I take it to be four or five hundred steps.
In which direction was the rtver from where he was
arrested?
Q

A

To the south.

Q

Which way were you going?

A

I was going to the West, you know. where the SUn sets.

on the road, on the road
Q

Doesn't that road lead across the rlver?

A There ls
they can do so.
Q

to Roma

a terry at Roma and if they want to cross

Did you not leave the big road and take a lane that

went to and across the river?
A

There was no lane there.

Q

You did not leave the main road and take a lane then?

A

I was going to take him to me ranch and there is a

lane between
Q

rrt9'

field fenoe and. another f ellow's fence there.

And he was in that lane?

A I was going to my ranch and taking the road that leads
me into my house th~re.
Q

How far is ~our house from the river?

Texas State Library and Archives Commission
'

 A

About the same dietanoe--tbree or four hundred steps.

Q

Were 7ou not a deputy sheriff or a constable at that

time?

A

Yes, sir, I was.

Q

Which?

A

I was oonstable.

Q

Of what county?

A

Duva1 Oount7.

Q

Did this ocour in DuTal County?

A

No. sir.

Q

In what county did this occur?

A

In Starr County.

Q

How far is the point where he was apprehended from

his precinct in Duval County?
A

Ninety or one hundred miles, more or less.

Q

Where did those boys live?

A

At Concepcion. Texas.

Q

In what oounty is Conoepo1on?

A

Duval County.

Q

They lived in the same county where you were constable?

A

Same oounty, yes, but j!Dt 1n the same precinct.

Q

And that is eighty or ninety miles from where you were?

A

More or less. yes, sir.

Q

And this was some seven or eight days before the draft?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

Is it not a fact that those boys had all registered?

A

They were to register there on the twelfth day.

Q

Isn't it a fact that the men whom you encountered or

who apprehended you and the boys ooneisted of two soldeirs and

two Federal scouts--two Rangers and two Federal scouts. I mean?
A

Rangers.

I don't know what they are but I judge them to be all

4 'i'l
Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 Q

What were their names, of those three bo7s?

A

Guillermo Benavides, Eulialo Benavides end Ramiro Ramos.

Q

You were armed?

A

Bo, s1r.

Q

Had on no pistol?

A

No, sir.

Q

You were an officer at that time?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

Did you, or not, refuse to talk to those officers

when you were apprehended?
A

No, sir.

Q

Are you,or not,under bond now before the Federal Court?

A

No, air.

Q

Is this information or prooeedlngs still pending against

you down there?

A

No, sir, they turned us loose there.

Q

Isn' t it a fnct that the grand jury has not met on
'

eocount of the "flu*' since that time?
A

I don't know whether they met or not. I don't know any-

body on the grand jury.
t~ken

Q

Now you were

to Brownsville after arrest?

A

They turned me out of Rio Grande under bond and I was

cited to appear before the Pederal court on the second.
Q

Of December?

A

On the eeeond day of December.

Q

At !rownsv1lle he was turned out on bond to appear

before the next Grand Jury 1n December?

A

Yes. sir.

Q

Now then, isn't it a fact, that the grand jury has not

yet met on account of the "flu"?

A

I was told that we were turned loose and I know that the

bonds were raised.
Rave you ever been called before the grand
- """'' ') StateQLibrary
Texas
and Archives Commission
' .,.,

jury?

 A·

Bever a time.

Q

Didn't you hear that the grand ju17 had not met because

of the "flu"'?
UR. CANALES:

The grand jury did meet and failed to find

aJl7 1ndiotment in this case; they were disaharged after four or
f1Ve days for the "flu" but the grand jury did not find any
bill.

SENATOR PAGE:
UR. XltIGHT:
jury

I suppose you can develope that, Ur.

Canales.='"'·~

I w111 ask you, Hr. Canales, did your grand

or not meet down there. Mr. Canales. and adjourn without

do1ng--transferr1ng everything over?
HR. CANALES:
UR.

KBIGH~:

MR. CANALES!

They indicted several mon.
How long were they in session?

Prom Monday until Thursday.

:MR. KNIGHT: Did they pass on these oases. to your knowledge?

MR. CANALES:

My understandins 1a the judge oalled all

those parties and told them to go home, that they had no
further. that their lresence was not further necessary. and
except certain men that he called ln there and this gentleman ·
was not among them. ·

MR. KNIGHT: · Isn't it a fact, Ur. Canales, if you .know.
that the grand jury elmpl7 passed on the jail cases? ·

A

Bo, sir;

they began to indict quite a number of cases

where persons were on bond and the last two days they devoted
themselves to jail cases on account of the "flu".
SENATOR PAGE:

Just a moment, lh". Knight. 2robably you

,,,-

can develope that best by the clerk or somebody down there.
MR. KJIIGHT:

I thought probably Ur. Canales knew of the

fact.

SENATOR PAGE:
MR. KNIGHT:

Yee;

I understand.

Q Now, isn't it a fact that those three

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 young men confessed that they were slackers. to the United
States off1o1als?
A

Yee, they said so because they

we~e

punished and

tortured by them, they made them tell so.
Q

By whom were they punished and tortured?

A

The boys were taken out or taken away by John Edds

and Mr."Roy" but I didn't see them tortured or see them say
an~hing

to them;
1

Q

Then he doeen t know whether they were tortured or not?

A

I know it beoause they told so, they said so.

Q

. Not of your own knowledge though?

A

All I saw one of them had been hit over the head by the

Q

Who examined him?

"

gun.

UR. CANALES: You mean the witness?
MR. XlfIGHT:

The witness there.

!BTERPRI:!TER:
SENA~OR

What kind of examination?

PAGE:

MR. KNIGHT:

Yes,- What kind of examination?

On this oooas1on when you say they abused you?

SENATOR PAGE:

Wait a minute. I don't comprehend, .Ii-.

hight.
!AR. KHIGH!':

.tie said John Edds and somebody bad him. I

want to know who had hirn at the same time.
SENATOR PAGE:

Who bad him at the same time?

.MR. KNIGHT: Yee, sir.
A

I stated alraad7 it was John Edds and that fellow Roy.

MR. KNIGHT:

JohJ1 Edds. and 'Roy e:ram1ned both he and the

bo;rs?

A

They examined the boys first and when they came back they

took me out

o~

my car.

Then and
they Archives
had gottenCommission
the oonfess1on from the boys
Texas StateQLibrary

 before they took him out of his oar at a11, hadn ' t they?

A

Yes. sir.

i.m. KNIGHT:

We stop right there.
Anything further, Ur. Canales?

SENATOR PAGE :

MR.

No, sir.

C~NALES:

EYi.AMINED :BY UR• TIDt:ELL.

Ask him whether those men spoke Spanish or English

Q

in talking to him?
A

They spoke to me in Spanish.

Q

Was all this conversation in Spanish?

A

Yes. air.

Q

Wbiah one of the men was it that had the pistol in

his mouth?
A

That te1low Roy.

Q

When did this event ooour?

A

On

the.4th day of September. about one o'elook ln the

morning.
Q

Where was he going anyhow?

A

I was on my way to Roma.

Q

How came

h1~

to be going up there at one o' clock in the

morning?
A

Beoause t left Copitaat two o'clock in the evening.
it

Q

What

we~e

•

1'9U .go1ng to Roma for?

A . I was going .to take those two .boys; they said they
were going to buy some goat_s at Homa.
Q •• :Ask..lJ.'-~.. ~:f they a~uld not buy those go.Q.ds a1i :,~o~e?
\.

YR. · KNIGHT:

Goats?

Q · \ "Goats".

tfj')

.

'

A

That part I don't know.

Q

Ask him if they had any goats around there' where he did

liTe?

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 A

There ls no big bunch of them but some small bunches

around.
Q

Ask him 1f they were men that were running a goat

ranoh?

A

They do not run a goat ranch.

Q

Ask him what they were going to do with those goats?

A

He don't know what they wanted them for.

Q

Ask him what they said they were going to do with

them?
A

All they told me. they

~ere

going to buy some goats to

bring them back home.
Q

Ask him if they we r e going to br1n~ them back in the

oar with them?
A

Bo, air;

my automobile was to take them down there

and I had to come back with my nephew only.
Q

.Aek b'im how many they were going to buy?

A

They never told me how many.

Q

Ask him if he knows how many they were going to buy?

'A
goats.
Q

No. sir;

they only told me they were going to buy some

Ask him how far they were from Roma when this trans-

aoti on occurred?
.A
I

~as

He says about tw~lve miles on this side of Homa.where
arrested about four miles from H1o Grande City.

Q

Ask him •he they were going to buy those goats from?

A

I don ' t know.

Q

Ask him whose house they were going to look at goats?

A

They never told me anything only' to take them to Homa.

Q

Ask him if that boy who was twenty-two years old had

hie r egistration card with him?
SENATOR PAGE: Ask him whether or not he knows whether th1 s

Texas
Library and Archives Commission
'17'\ State
boy had his rogiatration oard with him at this time.

 --70"

..

r

•

...
"- .

..

·.

.,

I

,.

y

.

... ..,

f

~.

,..

: . :i.'

:

..

,,, .

...

..

., '

.'
....

samoq

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

9t{i.t

V

 A

You mean to say those I was taking to Roma?

SENATOR PAGE: Ask him if those boys had their registration
cards.

INTERPRETER :

The ones he had 1n the car with him?

l'lo, sir.- I just testified that they were going . to be

A

r egistered on the twelfth of that month.
But he said one of them was twenty- two years old: I

Q

wanted to know if he had a registration card?

My nephew,- the one who was twenty- two years of age,

A

I was going to bring back from there to Falfurias to be married, had a registration card.
Q

With him?

A

Yes, he had it.

(HR. TIDWELL, resuming) Q.
A Bo, sir.

You say you were not armed?

Ask him whether either one of those boys had ~ny arms

Q

on them?
A

No, air.

Q

Ask him if they had a Winchester or any other kind of a

A

No, sir.

gun?

Q Ask him if they had any boot-leg or mescal o~ : wh!~
or anythine like thet?
A

... ~

No, sir.

Ask him whether these Rangers cursed them or
them when th~y went through that ?
Q

.

.

A

Yes, they maltreated us.

Q

What?

A

Abused us.

J

.

'\

: '

' .

,,

.....

'

'~

·\

..'

.'

\

.

Q

.~~ne)~.~.··.

\

I asked whether or not they oureed him or ~bused h~
\
in that particular wa7?
A

\'t

,..

.

!\
\

We had no booze there.

t-

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

~
~\

/

c \

I

\.

\

I

ti

 SENATOR PAGE:

A

He asked of those men cursed him.

Yes; that John l!ldds and Roy.

SEDATOR PAGE:
A

Cursed him?

Yes, sir.

mi. TIDV:'ELL: Cursed him
A

in Spanish or in English?

In Spanish.

EXAMINED BY ml. LACKEY.
Q

Ask him who the third man was that was with those

Rangers on this occasion; he said John Edds and Roy Collins,
and a third man,- ask him who the third man was.
·A

There was another fellow; they said his name was Lino.

Q

Was he a Jlexioan?

A

No, sir.

Q

Did ho know them personally, know any of those men?

A

Yea, I

Q

n1a he know John. Edds and Roy Coll1ns

A

Yes, sir.

Q

There were just three of them?

A

There were tour of them.

Q

Ask him if he knows who those four. who the fourth one

A

The fourth one. I don't know him.

Q

Ask him if any of them had on uniforms?

A

It was a very dark night. I oould not distinguish. eny-

kno~

him personally.
~ersonally?

was?

thitlg.
Q

Ask him how he aould distinguish the men if he o.q uld not

"

distinguish the uniforms?
A

\,

\

\

I oould distingu~ah the men all right but I could not ~\

say whether he had on any

un!~orm

or not.

Q

He could not tell what k1nd of clothes they had on?

A

?Jo. sir.

LACKEY: That is all.
47:; State MR.
Texas
Library and Archives Commission

'

 MR. TIDWELL; .Have on caps or hats?
A

They had hats on them.

I have not seen any cape on

them.
SENATOR PAGE:

That is all.
---------0-0-0~~~-~---~

•

JOHB EDDS,
having been duly sworn, testified before the Joint
Committee, as follows:

YR. Ycll!LLIN:

Before we begin questioning this witness

I want to protest against the wide range this investigation
is taking. Under the purview of the resolution I think we are
confined to the investigation of the Ranger foroe and its
aot1v1t1es, ·the questions of intent and Qiot1ves of those clearly outside of the Ranger force is taking too wide a range and we
would not get through in two months. I am sure the · Committee
doesn't want to do that.

Outside of inquiries. with referenoe

to the conduct of the Ranger forae and the 'dm1n1str2tion of
the Adjutant General, in as far aa it conoerns the Rangers,
I mean to protest. I don't think it aomes within the purview
of this resolution under w.h1oh we are aoting.
CHAIR:!Al~:

statement?

3ledsoe:

Any other member

of the Comm1 ttee any

I think your statement 1s oorreot.

I was out the

last few minutes. I will ask counsel to read the resolution
caref ully and be governed by its provisions.
i.m.

LACKEY:

As I understand. this investigation is to

investigate the Hanger service. and the 'djutant General and
the Governor and -.rl§ Rangers held over. The men d1seharged

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 r

prior to the administration of the present Adjutant General
I don't understand this committee is to go into unless they
are still in the service.
CHAIRMAN BLEDSOE:

I think 1n so far as their acts might

relate to any o~ the offioere or mem~era still on the force~­
MR. LACKEY:

Those discharged prior to that time, prior to

the time this administration oame in?
CHAm!L\?J BLEDSOE:

Some men who were discharged prior to

this administration may have been acting under instructions
of some superior who is still on the force.
KR. f.!oMILLIN:

I have no predeliction in favor or against

the RaDger force. There is not a Ranger in a hundred miles
of where I live. so far as I know. and has not been in years.
I want to arrive at the fact that this oomm1ttee is expected to
investigate.
'

l1R. Kl'lIGHT:

I am completely in a propos. w!th the sentiment

. as expressed by Ur. licM1111n, and we shall endeavor in the
briefest poar:1b1e wn7 to acoompli.sh only two things; I am sure
you will agree with me those are neooassary~ not only ~~er any
specific oharge like the one we haTe just investigated, in order
for the committee to enlighten themselves, in order to pass
intelligently on the situation, it will be necessary for them
to know the tacte and t~en the motive o~ the witness, that is
all. That is all I am going to try to develope at all, just
the taots and the motive underlying the testimony.
I

JOHN EDDS.

EXAMINATION BY UR. CANALES.
Q

I call attention to the third and fourth charges:

John Edds is your name. isn't 1 t.?
A

Yes, sir.

4Bl} StateQ Library
You are
a sergeant
the Rangers?
Texas
and
ArchivesofCommission

 Q

Aren't 7ou now?

A

I have been suspended pending this investigation.

Q

Uhen were you suspended?

A

I have been suspended pending this investigation.

Q

When'?

A

I think it was day before yesterday that the Adatutant

General notified me.
~rande

Q

You have been stationed at Rio

A

Yes, sir.

Q

Under Capt.

A

Yes, sir.

Q·

Now,

A

Yes , sir.

Q

In fact, your mother is of Dexican descent?

I

She !a Spanish, not Mex1oan.

Q

All right: Spanish.

w.

City?

M. Wright. he is your captain?

Edds, 7ou speak Spanish, don't you?

Mdda, you

.

k~lled

Llsandros Uunoz

didn't you, on or about ·the fifth day of. October, 1918?
I••

A

Q

On the sixth

day

of October.

"4•

I

'

'

l

Tell the committee the c1roumetana$B under ,Which you

killed him?

A , Viell---

SEilATOR PAGE:

I don't know who is defending this man. I
'

would like for him to be werned.

The grand jury found a bill
I

'

againet him.

IJR. CANALES: I don't know.
SEU.ATOR PAGE:

I would like for him to i'ind out what he is

testifying about.

MR. XlHGHT:

The grand jury came on normally down. th'e re and

I presume they will all be normal, and refused to indict. It is
possible that in some counties in Texas there might be a grand
jury arranged

to make indictments but the grand jury has already
\

refused to indict.

481 State Library and Archives Commission
Texas

 DllAIRMAll BLEDSOE: 1lr. Edds. a telOD.7 oharge might be
formed against you and an indictment might be returned agalnet
J'OU

in that oounty charg1nc you with the murder of this man.

?lurder le never barred by -limitation and the fact that one

grand jury has not 1nd1oted
J'OU

J'OU

la no proteotion to you. but

might be ind!eted in one year or five years or ten years.

or at ony subsequent time.

The ntatemonta that you make at this

time could be used against you ehould the7 be of an incr1m1nating .
oheraoter. You are not oompelled either here or elsewhere to
test1f1 to any fact or oircumstanoes in oonnect1on

~th

this

that might 1nor1minate 7ou. but in so tar as 70u are willing
to tell the details and c1rcW?Jstenoee of that killing we will be
glad to have you do so. but there is

bsolutel7

no~h1ng

compul-

eo'r7 and you will not be oompelled to answer any questions
relative to lt should you desire to claim your exemption under
the laws of Tena.

I will sa1 that tho 1nformstion has just come

to ue that you have already been indiotod in that county.
m. KUIGHT:

By this last grand jury? Vie have expected es

I went to say for the witnoso. I

muoh.

atn

authorised to apoak

for him. that he has nothing in the world to hide. there is no
objection to him telling 7ou gentlemen everything he did 1n

thto oonnoction.
CHADU!AB DLEtSOE:

Are you representing him 1n the or1m1nal

oase?

MR. KliIGHT:

I am representing him now. Ask him

1~

that le

oorrect..
CHAIR!IAli BLEDSOE:

\71 th this explanation. regardless ot

'lfho does or who does not represent 7ou. you caa
wish to do

tlO.

testi~y

1f you

I Will say if j-ou do go into it and· make 8llJ'

statement at all then you must oome right on through and answer
11 questions asked you with reference to 1t. You cannot make a

partial explanation.

Texas
48'~ State Library and Archives Commission

~

 JOHB EDDS:

I reeliae tho warning and I have nothing to

oonoeal about it.

CiiAIR.lj!lf BLEDSOE:

Go ahead wlth the e:ramlnation.

(Examination resumed by Ur. J. T. Canales.)
Q

You said 7ou killed L1eandros llunoz on or about Oot-

ober sixth. 1918:
A

Elease tell the oommittoe about that fact.

Well, mJSelf and. a couple of other Hangers went up to

a J!ex1oan house to arrest a deeerter. 1t was early 1n the morning. just about daylight.

THE CHA!B!!AH

(After calling tor order in the room)

:ur. Edds.

oan • t you talk louder than trust?

A

Well, ! onn.

Well, C17Self ana two other ttangers went

up to a man's house euly one morning. the morning ot thia
killing, to arrest a deserter.

It

as about daylight in the

morni.ng, just about daylight, and I got into a dlffloulty there
with a man
Q

an~

was forced to kill him.

Uho was that man?

A · Lisandros Munoz.
Q

~as

A

!lo. air.

Q

Who

A

Alonza Sanohez.

Q

Did 1ou have a warrant to errest him?

A

He was a deserter from the army.

Q

Answer whether ;ou had it or not: Did you have a war-

that the man you wanted to arrost?
as the man you anted to arrest?

rant or not '1
A

Why. no. sir.

Q

'!'hie man iJunoa. ~hotn you killed, seeking for Alonza

Ssnehez. was sleeping in whose house?
A

They were sleeping in the 7ard juat baek o-t Jesus

Sanchez', who was the father of Alonza Sanchaz.
Q
Jesus Sanchez. was the ~ather ot Alonza Sanchez?
Texas
48'1 State Library and Archives Commission
i

 A

Yes. air.

Q

And the man llunoz was sleeping in the baek--

A

In the back yard.

Q

In another house. isn't it?

A

No, sir, out in the yard.

Q

Was he sleeping on a oot?

A

On a cot.

Q

Did he have any guns around him?

A

no,

Q

\

A

Zaragoza Sanchez. the brother of the deserter.

Q

At the time you killed munoz he was unarmed, wasn't

A

Yes, sir.

Q ·

And you had two other Rangers:

A

They were armed but they were not there with me.

Q

How far were they from you?

A

I stationed one of them at the corner of the house.

si~.

ho was the other fellow sleeping with him?

ho?

Were they armed?

out on the st4eet at the corner of the house, he was about
thirty or t'ort;v feet away; the f enoe was between us; the other

was stationed upon another street about twenty yards fl:oom the
house, about twenty yards from the place where we had this

diffi ou.l. ty.
Q

All Within hearing distance from where you were?

A

Yes, sir • .

Q

How were you armed?

A

I had a rifle and a pistol.

Q

A pistol and a rifle;

A

I did.

Q

It is also charged here that one Jose ma Gomez Salinos

you had the r1rle-in your hand?

was killed ab~ut September second, 1918:

man?
No. sir.
48.J. StateA Library
Texas
and Archives Commission

did you arrest that

 Q

Who arrested h1m'

A

Some Jde:rlesn cowb.oys.

Q

Weren't you

A

.Uo, sir;

Q

Didn' t you have anything to do with. that man?

A

Nothing

ther~?

I was miles awa,Y from there.

~t

all.

I

Q

Didn t you oome to the I•~~erra
ranch at his (}all
1 •• ii

and go into Rio Grande City from that ranoh at that time?
A

Yos,. sir.

Q

Then didn' t you o.r der this oerta1n man to be conducted

.,

by those two Y~xicans to

Hebbronv1lle?

A

Yes, s1r.

Q

Then you gave them orders to take him to ttebbronville?

A

I did.

Q

And you gave them the hando'1lfs to handcuff him ~ith?

A

No, sir.

Q

~hose

A

I am not sure. I don ' t know whether they were Ranger

Hutchins--

'

handcuffs were they?

I think they we.re Hutchins.

Q

Who in Hutchins?

A

Be is a

Q

H~w

A

He went with me.

Q

You were in

A

Yes, sir.

~anger

also.

did he happen to be there?
comm~nd,

the sergeant?

Q Inntead of taking him to Rio Grande Cit~ you sent him
to Hebbronv1lle?
A

I had no authority to take him to H1o Grande City.

Q

Yo11 sent him t <>-- -

A

To

Q

Whet was the name of those two men?

A

.. Sa bas Ozuna

Hebbronville.

·and

Frederico ·rooo.z.

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

---

--

 Q

The man was handcuffed?

A

Yes, when we left he was handcuffed.

Q

Didn ' t you tell those men if that man tried to e.110ape.

to kill him?
A

I did not.
1

Q Ian t it a fact you gave them orders that 1f he attempted to escape to kill him?
A

I did not.

Q

Those two fellows took him to Hebbronu lle?

A

Sir?

Q

Did they take him to ttebbronville?

A

They took him within four miles of Hebbronville.

Q

What hapl)ened to him?'

.A

Ha was killed •

Q

What happened to those two men?

A

They were arrested by the Rang&rs and placed in jail.

Q

And did they give bond?

A

Sir?

Q

Didn t they giTe bond?

A

They did, I understand.

Q

Five hund?"ed dollars each?

A

Five hundred dollars.

Q

Ana they have never been proseoated?

A

I don't know.

Q

They are still

A

Yes. air, they are still there.

Q

But they are not in jail?

A

They are not in jail.

Q

That is all.

I

11R. KNIGHT:
A

th~re?

Who is representing them?

Judge Wells was, I understand; I don ' t know.

Texas State Library and Archives Commission
MR. CANALES:

Representing whom?

 l~. KNIGHT:

Those two cowbo7s~

EXAMINED BY MR. KNIGHT.

Anything else you want to state about this Salinas

Q

matter? Yo~ have stated all your oonneot1on with it~
I stated al1 I hav to do with 1t.

A

or

ei~hty

I was seventy- five

miles away from there when the killing occurred.

Q

How many miles away?

A

Seventy-£1ve or eighty miles

Q

When you heard of 1 t the mt11 were under arrest, were

a~ay.

tbey not?

A
Captain

They were arrested and placed in jail by the Rangers.
\~right is here and can testify to that.

Q

You had noth1ne; to do with their arrest?

A

No, sir.

Q

riow, the case of L1sandroa !tunoz: What time in the

morning,- as r understand it you were seeld.D8 a deserter?
J..

Yes, eir.

Q

You ~ent to the home of tbe deserter's ~ather?

A

Yes, sir.

Q.

f.nd one of the deserter' a brothers was there a t

the

place?
A

Yee, sir.

Q

Was his :father there?

A

He

Q

What reason did yon have to beliove that the deserter wa+

W3S

inside of the house.

I

there?
A

I had learned that he had oome· afroas the river or was

coming across the river that night, about dark.- what the fellow
told me.

Q

Whnt Raneers were with you?

.A · Ranger Lawrence and Ranger Wells.

DHi anybody
eo into Commission
that place that night. the
Texas StateQ Library
and Archives

home?

 A

Into the homes. no; s1r.

Q

You all were watching the orosa1ng and the avenues--

What time was it you approached the house?
pee~

A

Just at the

Q

Just tell the eoromittee what you did when you went

of day, just at daylight.

there.
A

Well, when we got to the house,the house opened out

OD

the oorner of the street, for instanoe, like this , the house
opened right out on the street; it was situated on the
oorner, ttere were trees on this .side and trees on this side
over here.
CRAIB.KAN

~TEDSOE:

Couldn't you g1ve those directions?

"This side" doesn 1 t mean anything in the record.
A

Exouse me. I am not aoquainted--- The house was on the

corner of the block facing Eeat and Borth and there were trees
leading out of the house , opening out right into the street on
e ach side, that is, on the east side and on the west side, and I
stationed one of the Ranfters

mt

right at the corner of the house

so 1n the event tbis man was 1n the house and tried

~o

get out

through the front door into the street this man stationed at the
corner would have a ohanae to
Ranger Welle went

a~prehend

him and then myself ond

up a string of fence, a string of yard fence,

trying to find a gate to get into the back part ot the house, baek
part of tho yard, and when wo got up, that is up to the north side
ot the string of fenoe we could not find any gate but we could get
a good view of the yard from there snd it seomed there was one or
two little outhouses there and a wood patch back there and a
wagon or two,- I didn't °k"loT. where ho v.aa sleeping,- tho3c men on
the dodge, 7ou osn't tell where you will find them,- sometimes they
sleep at home and sometimes sleep out !n the lot. we couldn't find
any gate· but we could get s good view of the back yard. I told
Wel1s to stay there while I went down the corner and went down the
other string of fence, I

tho~ht

there surely would be a gate

Texas State Library and Archives Commission
48~

 -

on the other string of fence• I went around and a&nt down the
•

4

other string of fence and locate't the gate. ind got into the
7ard and

~hen

I did I seen that there was another little 7ard

made out of pou.1try netting that led tnto that·• in other words•
e little yard made out of poultry netting that led into the baok
part of the house

adjoi~ing

the

d

back...part~the

house• and I notioed
co~s

two men sleeping on cots there; lying on cots; the

were olose,

.

.

together--about two or three feet apart• So I didn't .know this
man Sanchez,- they ba-d given me a description of him; described
him and snla that he was a man that wore a black mustache and

also described his brother being a clean shaven man; and told
me that there was no one in the habit of sleeping at the house
but tha old man and the other boy and if I found a man there in
all probability one of those would be th.e deserter;.

-So I went

into this little ya:rd and eazed up to the oots and they were
both asleep and I looked at it a good while and the best I could;
they

were

~overed Up

and I oould see their f'aces. they ·were COYered

up to the neok with a sheet or som9thing. I saw one that was olean
shaven aud the other had a blaok mustaohe. so I
1 t was Sanchez; thia deserter we were looking

na~ally

for~-

thought

so I eased up

-

to his oot and began to oall him. "Alonzot" his first ,name. ealled

him "Alonzo,n softly. trying to wake him up, and directly he woke
up

a~ter

I called him two or three times, he woke up

~d

straighten-

ed up in his cot and said , (Witness repeated the phrase in ~
Spanish) ''What is it?"

I aatd, "The .Rangers. John Edds."-- that

is my namet 8Ud he said, (witness repeated the
"What do yon want?"

phr~Se

in

~pa~isb)

I sa1d, "I w11nt to talk to you .., :What is · yov

name?»

He cou1d not answer me. I guess he seen . thQ Eif-1.e oook&d
--I don't know what struck him. he got to whet~·--~ Qould not talk
to me. Re got up from his cot. I said, ''Sit down, I w~nt. 't o talk
'·
to you." Suddeniy he reached and grabbed 1111' ~ifle by the barrel
and I said, "Turn it loose, I ain't going to hurt you." He never

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

I

\

\
\

 paid aDJ' attention to me. and around and aro'lllld we went. souftlltJg -

in tho ;vard. He was trying to take my rifle away trom me. He was
a litt le bigger man than I wee end I
"Come bere qu1ok. l!unroe.w
was a high fenoe,- he

~ee

o~lled

to

his first name ts

~anger

~unroe.

Welle,
but there

stationed outside of it and he had

trouble getting over thG fence and before he could get to me
I shot this man. The gun was right up against him when I shot
him. It burned a b13 hol.e in his drawers and m dly powder

bUrD.(Jcl

his flesh; it shot him right here in the groin.
BEIJATOR:V'ITT:
,\

Did that can die?

Yes. sir.

Kt. Kn!GRT:

At that time did you still ih1nk it was the

deserter?

A

I thought it was him.

Q

Instefid of talking to you he made the attack?

A
Q

He made the attack.
And in the scuffle he woa shot?

A

Yes.

Q

Wea thet reported to the nuthor1t1es1

A

Oh, tmmedietely.

~ir,.

I stayed there and sent one of the

boys to phone, to see the oounty judge first, but the count7
judge wasn't there. They said he lived at this little ranch but

I heard

a~crwards

he didn't wont to Gome dov.n, and I told them

to ' phone and notif,y Captain Wright, who wee in Rio Grande City at
the time. and notify the oheriff end Justice of the Peace. and
we sta7ed rlght there. That was just after daylight. We staJed
r13ht there ana didn 1 t let &%110ne come near the body so they
would not put out the tracks, you know, because . there were
signs where we batl aoufi'led plainly visible. and I wanted
Justive of

~he

th~
th~

Peace to oome there and hold an inquest, and

ViO

sta19a there until about ten-thirty, when Captain Wright end the
local authorities got there.

Texas
Commission
4 'j O State QLibrary
\"ihenand
was Archives
that, John?

 was on the mornine of the sixth of Ootober.

A

Tlu\t

Q

This last Ootober?

A

Thie la st Ootober.

Q

When did the gr8lld jurJ meet? .

A

It convened last !.Xonda7. I left there Sunda7.

Q·

Did the grand jur-J meet before that?

A

No, etr.

Q

Uo grand jury met before that?

A

!fo, alr.

Q

How far was this from the river?

A

Oh, it ts only. well, it la not 300 71lrds.

Q

Your informs t1 on waa that th 1 s bor was coming across

and being harbored there?

A

Yes, end my information was perfectly reliable. The

peoplo thenr.elvea. this boy's f ather, arr:l his brother, both
admitted to us and to all the Mexicano that v.ore there that he

had been thore and thnt h0 had left shortly after midnight that
same night.
Q

That he had been down thore that aame night?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

Now. after you were advised and, he mentioned there, did

you have time to get a warrant?
A

Get a warrant tor what?

Q

For his arrest?

A

Why, tor this deserter?

Q

The deserter?

A

I never beard of a

~arrant

for a deserter. £resident

Wilson in his proolatnation gave us that authorl.tJ'.
Q

No

warrant under tho lan, as you understood it, v:as re-

quired at all?
A

Never heard of aueh a thing.

Q

Where did you work before you were on the Ranger foroo?

Texas
Library
Archives Commission
491 State
What ~as
your and
business?

 490

A

! was in the customs eel'Vice for about two

Q

For what government?

A

Our government, United States government.

Q

Where were you stetioned?

A

At different plaoeaalong the border.

Q

I w,.11 ask you, here are the names of the grand jury

ye~rsJ

who indicted you, and if you know any ot them; I would like
for you to toll the committee whe ther or not they speak English.
We object.to that.

!-ffi . CAlJAJiES:
TH": CHAIRMAU!

That is

irrelevant and unnecessary, and

inoumbe rs the record, Judge.
UR . KMIORT:

~e

would like for the record to

oo~tain

thoso

name s , anyway.
BE NA TOR PAGE:
:m~ .

KNIGHT:

Vlhat is the object, lilr. Knight?

I wanted to show their probable antipathy to

him or their ra.cial prejudioe, something of th.et snrt.
SFHIATOR PACE:

I think 1t ia

im'!la~erial,

because I th.ink

a man who killed a man under suoh o1roumatanoes ought to be
indicted v1hether he ie convicted or not, anll I think most grand

juries take that view of it.
MR. KNIGHT:

All right. We will omit that.

Q (l!R. KNIGHT)

If you oould have avoided killing that

fellow would you have done so?
A

I certainly would. If I

him I would not have oalled

CHA!Ri!AN 3T.EDSOE:
A

Mr.

di ~n't

want to avoid killing

Wells to aome to my assistance.

We cannot hear you?

t

If I didn t want to avoid killing him I would not have

called Mr. Wells to come to my aaeiatanoo.

I

Q

You did overything you oould to keep from aoing it?

A

Absolutely everything I oould; he was a larger man than

I am.

•,

Q

Where was he shot?

Texas StateALibrary and Archives Commission

n·

Shot in the groin, right in here ( 1nd1c atea.)

 Q

Only one shot?

A

One shot.

Q

As soon as you were extricated from his attack you did

not shoot anymore?
A

No. he fell and when Wells got there he helped me take

the rifle away from him.
Q

He still had the rifle after he had fallen?

A

Why oertainly.

Q

What did you do then with reference to the ministering

to him and assisting the doctors?
A

Hie cousin, this othor boy that was there, his cousin,

he v1oke up when he heard this shot and asked what was the mattor ·
and everything and I told him; he said "I wonder if he is dead,"
I said,"I don't know,Doe if he is dead and if he 1a not we will
got a dootor.n
Q

Are you acquainted with Jeaue Villereal?

A

I have known him for a few months.

Q

He was on the witness stand this morning. You heard his

testimony this morning?
A

Yea, sir.

Q

I believe I will let you go ahead and state that trans-

action in your own way. for the benefit of the committee.
A

Well. Villereal was arreated by myself and other officers

on the morning

0£

the fourth

o~

September about three o'olook, in

the morning.
Q

What officers were they?

A

Ranger Hutchinson end scouts, two scouts. one of lhem

name Dickens and the other named Collins.
Q

Lee Dickens and Royal Collinsf

A

Yes, sir.

Q

u. s. · Army scouts?

A Yes, sir. We arrested him at a point about
Texas
State
Library and Archives Commission
~ 9'l
b
'-!...

•

a ove Rio Grande Ci t;v • about three

six miles

o'olook in the morning; at the

 49.2

time he was conveylng three slackers to the river to :put them

acroea the river. and

~e

arrested him and took him up and delivered

him to the military authorities at four o'alook that same morning.
The next day the military authorities end the agent of the Department ot Justice or intetligenoe officer, one of the two, .got
written statements from thoseother boys that Benevadiz' father--It would be improper tor- you to tell what

. THE CHAIRMAN:

tho military authorities did when you
statement s were taken they cun be

w~re

~roved

not there4

If such

in some other way. You

tell about your conversation with those men, if you had one.
1.!R . KNIGHT:

Is the

famili~r

rule regarding hearsay testimony

tO be invoked in thiS proceedings?

\''e

haven I t been doing it.

I understood it was relaxed;
THE CHAIRMAN:

It is invoked when it 1a so flagrantly violated

that this man _would undertake to tell about someth1ng · that was
done by some other officiel when he was not there.
MR. KlHGHT:

I haven• t even raised that objection. We have

let the bars doWn--THJ~

CHAIRMAN: As ! have repeatedly said, and other members

ot the comMittee have said, we must oontrol this examination and
get down to where we can see the ultimate conclusion of it at some
time.

rm.

KNIGHT:

Q.

You turned him over to the official author-

ities?
.A

Yes, air.

Q

What was aone while you were tllore?

A

There was nothing done while I was there. We turned him

over 3nd their baggage, suitcases, turned them over to the military about four o'clock tha t same morning, 8nd went on to
Ranger camp.

the

':'!hat was all I had to do with it; dic1 not have 8.?JY--

thing farther to do with it.

Texas
and Archives Commission
'ig.t State Library
Q
Did you . have ~Icy' prisoners when you arrested

those?

 A

We had two.

Q

Tell the oommittee how you happened to come into contact

with them ana what you bed b&en doing?
A

We had been on a soout up the river, it is about thirty

miles above thnt. and we oame back and we had two prisoners
and when we got within about s1x

Rio Grande City our oar

sto~ped

miles-~fivo

and a half miles of

and upon examination

~e

found

out we did bot have any water. Then this fellow Diokens, this
scout, he went down, he went

of~

on foot--

{At this point a reoefe was taken for ten minutes. )
THE CF..J\DUUU:

MR. KNIGHT!

Proceed w! th the examination.

Now, Mr. Edds, just proceed. You bad stated

that you bad two prisoners you got up the river, go ahead aniJ
tell the oommittee in your own ws1.
MR. TIDWELL: Is that the transaction tostified to by the
other man first?
MR. KNIGHT:

ies, when they had the three men at one or

three o'clock in the morning.

Q

You had been up the river and had three men prisoners,

go ahead.

A

When the car ~ke dovm---;-

MR.

TIDWET~:

A

When our car stopped Diokens ,- we examined the car and

Wait just a minute. I didn't catch that.

one of the boys said that it didn't have any water and Dickens
went down to the house to get some water. about three- quarters or
a mile away from there, and when he oame back he came back in a
oar with Villereal and threG othor Mexican boys.
we said. "What is that?"

When he rode up

He as.id, "Fellows , here are three men,

do 7ou want to 1nterrogato them?"
we talk about questioning anybodr.

That is a by- word with us. when
I said, "Sure,"· ao we separated .

them immediately and we talked with those boys an.1 we learned from

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

I

 them that they

we~e

all going across the river to try to keep

from having t ·o register.

RegiJtration nay was to be held on

the twelfth and it was only about seven or eight days until
registration day; and one of the boye stated that his father had
given Vitlareal seventy dollars to bring them down there and see
them safely across the river. so when they admitted this to us
then we tslkod to Villareal.

He denied everything and acted very

impudent and had been drinking. We questioned him about where he
got his booze, etc., and he didn't know nothing about that, and
when we went to search him,- when we first went to search him he

stepped bock and when ha did I shoved a pistol in bis stomach
and searohed him, and when I went and talked to those boys and
they admitted that he had assisted to put them across the river
we came beok and talked to him again end he said that he wasn't
no bandit, ohd ought not to be h&ld up, that he was an officer
of the lav:, that he was a constable of Duval County, and I told

him, I said, "\iell, you are a pretty eon-of- a-bitch to be a constable. taking slackers to the river."

is just the way I

~elt

I couldn't help it. That

about it. That caused me to make that re-

oark.
Q

You had talked to the boys already and gotten their

story then?
A

Yes. sir.

Q

And their father had paid him seventy dollars to put them

across the river?
A

Their father had paid him seventy dollars to put them

across the river.

They had several suitcases, all fillod with

clothes. a.nd had on good clothes and one boy was a itexican oitizen, so he

~as

turned loose.

We told him we would turn him loose.

would take hlm back to town, wouldn't turn him loose on the road;
He said

he

was n :~exiean citizen and we didn ' t have e.ny way to

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

..
1,

r
\

"

 prove he wasn't; we could not make him register and put him in the
army anyway, so we told him we would turn him loose, so we taken
them back to town snd delivered them over to the military authorities.

This

ha D~ened

about three o'oloak in the morning and we

delivared them to the military authorities about four o'clock
the Bame morning.
Q

Did you have anything fttrther to do with it?

A

No. sir.

Q

Regarding the oontente of those grips?

A

It was wearing apparel, oloth1ng, just ae much clothing

as they could

~ut

in their grips; they had three or four suit

oases packed full of cl othing.

Are you familiar with the familiar goat herd down in

Q

tha t

coun~ry,-

did they look like goat heras, men going to buy

goafis?

No, they did not look that way; they were well aressed

A

and I thought they had too muoh wearing apparel, too muoh new
olothing to be out buying goats.
How near to the river when you apprehended them there,

Q

J!r • .r;d cl. e?

It ie something in the neighborhood of a mile, it ie

A

more or leas, you know.
State whether or not Villareal refnsed to Jlake any statement

Q

at first?
A

Yes, he denied everything. Tho boys

it but he

~ould

told the truth about

not admit a thing. He just denied everythiDg. He

just said he was going to his rench. I asked him Where hie ranch
was at. lie said it was over at Vera

~ealis.-

Vera Realis is a

little settlement and be had already passed 1t.

l.m.

'LACKEY:

A

I was not along when he was detained, when he w&s first

Was he going towards Roma?

arrested. Thia fellow Dickens arrested him. I could only testify

Texas
State Library and Archives Commission
~ 97 to where Dickens said he was when he arrested him; I was waiting 1it

 the oar while Diak.ens we"'· after the water.

Q

Was his oar headed towards Roma?

A

Dickens brought it up the Roms road afterwards to

where we were; we were on the Rio Grande City and Roma road.

MR. K.U!GHT:

In whiah directiou wero they going with referenc~

to the river, .Me:rlao?
A

r
'/,

Viell, right there on this public road, the.re is four or

five roads that turn off and a little crossing on the river that

they oa11 the Ferry crossing, it ia a cros sing where most of the
smuggling is done and where most fellowe cross that cannot cross
ot the Ferry where the immigration of~icers will not let them

cross at the Ferry and they have to go aaross the river some way
or another, most of the crossing ls at this o!'osaing.

Q

How far was the Ferry orossing from this stop?

A

It wasn't a mile.

Q

Have you stated all that you dta there thst night.

with reference to abusing or punishment of Villareal?

A

Villareal. I told him to sit down once. to sit down on

the side of the road.
Q

Dia what?

A

I told him to sit down once and made him ait down. If

you will permit me I will explain why I told him to sit down.
Q

Explain to the committee '?

A

There were only fcur of us: we had tU'o prisoners. we

arrested those four, made six; we wanted to separate these men
as much as we could while we were talking to them. If you take a
man and make him sit down out there in the brush that way, when
he jumps up to run he has less ohanoes to escape, he cannot

escape as qu1ok as if he was

standi~g

up and if he gets into any

argument with you he cannot get into a souffle with you as qu1ok
as if he was standing on his feet first.

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

I made him sit down. He

\

 didn't want to do th.et.

Q

Did he aay anything to you th.et night about those boya

boing goat herds?

A

No; the

fir~t

I

heard of 1t afterwards when it waa

tu.lked on the street, the t was tho C.efonse that their attorney

put up.
Q

Villereal was constable of snothcr county. wasn't he?

A

So he ae1d.

Q

How far would his precinct

b~

from

~here

you found him

at throe o'clock in the morning?
A

I am not

~cquainted

with the country between but 1t would

be almost seventy-five or a hundred miles, somowhere along there-I don't know how far.

Q

Does V,.llereal speak English?

A

Not that I know of. We tried to te.lk to him in English

that night; he would not answer at

~11.

I had to talk Spanish to

him altogether.

Q

Did he expla1n to you that night what he was doing with

those young men nnd where he was takine them to?
A

No, he di dn 1 t explain; he jnst said he was going to his

ranch.
Q

Did the young msn themselves tell yon mere they were

going and what they were doing'?
THE CR.A!RUAN:

I think he statec'\ th.at. Seid ths.t he lied been

hired to tnke them scroas the rivar.
MR• KNIGHT:

Q

A!!l right.

Referring back to the Munoz tranaaotion, I will

a~k

you

to state after the inquest was held and the officers had arrived
and heard the testimoD.1' and saw the situation there, I will

ask you if you were ever arrested for that transaction?

A

No, sir;

the looal authorities investigated, that is,

Texas State Library and Archives Commission
. gq
the oounty attorney and the sheriff, the

looal authorities there,

'I

 investigated the matter and they are lfoxicans themselves,

am

they never plaoed me under srrest and never filed.any case against

me.
Q

Waan ' t the Justice of the P.oaoe a Mexican?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

He refused to bind you ovor?

A

He never said anything about it ot all. He said it was a

oase where ! v.as justified under the circumstances.
EXAMIIU!D BY MR. BLEDSOE.

Q

Those boys that are charged to have been murdered by two

men you sa7 were Mexioan oowboys in Jim Hogg county?
A

Vies a

Mexican rancher, yea.

Q

\~here

did you arrest those boys?

.A

I did not arrest them •

The Rang era at- liebbronville

arrested them ' and -pl aced them in jail.
Q

".)here?

A

liebbronville.

Q

What county is Hebbronville in?

A

It is in Jim Hogg county.

Q

Did you take them out of jail there?

~

No, sir.

Q

Yes, the man who was killed, wb.et's his name? Jose

Take who?

Thoae two boys?

Gomez?
A

This man· Gomez had bt~en captured by those !Jecrica.n them-

selves, this Mexican and three other Mexicans• he was armed

the time they oaptm:ed him.
theft against

~im

at

We had traced several oases of horse-

and had been tr7ing to catoh him for seven .or

eight months, when he wae captured they taken him to Izaguerra's
ranoh.

They were men who worked with this lldexican

ranch~n,

the7

took him there. I was at another part of the oountry looking for
him; I oould not find him; we oould not get any traoe of
Texas State
Library and Archives Commission

him.

 I came baok to Rio Grande City and Izaguerra 'phoned to me--I
'phoned to him rather, if he had heard anything. He said "I have

just got word from my ranch that my cen havo got him,"

Just as

I stepped out the door the sheriff summoned me as a witness; d1etr1ot
ootlrt was in session; he summoned

as a witness. I told him"I have

m~

to go out to that ranch," --I explained the oircumstences and he
said "I ca11not excuse you, see the District Attorney."
to see the district attorney.

I went

I told hj.m I had to go out there

to toke ohargo of this man nnd take him to Hebbronvi lle jill ."
He said, "When will you get back?"

until

d~y

I said, "I wcn 't get back

after tomorrow, at the least it is eighty miles from

I

Rio Grande City to Hobbronvi lle. ''

R~

says "',ie cannot let you

off, we just simply have to have you here. tomorrow, we want to
wind this business up here e.t court."

He says, "We will arrange

it someway or another.'' lie says, "If you will go out to Izaguerra'e

ranoh and be back tomorrow at noon I will let .vou off until tomorrow at noon."

He let me off until tomorrow noon, next day at

noon, and I got out thore that night at nine o'clock and these
fellows bad tho prisoners. I had to be baok to Rio Grande City the
ne::rt day at twelve, lt is forty miles from that ranch to Hebbronville •. eo there I was with

t~is

man on my hands. I didn't know

whet to do, I could not figure 1t out any other

titr~,

anything

that I could do,- ! didn't have time to take him to Hebbronville
and I could not take him to Rto Grande City, so I askeJ !zaguerra
what aould I do.

He said "Well, you c:-rn send him to Hebbronville

by my oow-punohers.rr

I thought about it. lie said n! can let you

have two trusted men." I says, "Who are they?"

They were those

two boys,- he waa in the party that captured him,- he was armed
at the time he was oaptured by .these Mexicans

and~

tried to

resist, and they_ didn ' t kill him when they had him out in the
brush and had ample opportunity---

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 THr~ CP....A!Rl!AN:

You a re arguing the matter. Let's get down

to the facts. we will give you an opportunity to make your
speeohe s later.

Q

You say it was forty miles from there to Hebbronville?

A

About thirty-five or forty.

Q

You were there in t he car?

A

Yea, but 1 t was heavy aands All the 'i.ray through.

Q

But oars do go across there?

A

Yes, but they go another road. They Qon 't travel that

road from this particular ranch very much; they have to ·pull
thei.r cars through the sand there with horses.

Q

You said you oonld not take him to Rio Grande City

with you;
A

why couldn't you?
I

~~uld

have no legal authority to take him to Bio Grande

City, for several reasons I oould not take him to Rio Grande City.

If you will permit me to explnin-didn 1 t you have Hutohinson with you?

Q

Why

A

I did.

Q

Why didn't you leave him in charge?

A

He was a witness in some of the same oases I was a wit-

ness in. we were summoned st the same time und the District Attorne7 refused to excuse him;

we both bed to be back at noon tbe

next day.
Q

You did leave the prisoner there in charge of these oow-

boys?

A

Of the men who captured him.

Q

He never got to jail?

A

.He got Within four miles of jail anit was killed. They

took him about thirty miles. I suess.
Q

They took him thirty miles and then killed him?

A

Yea.

Q

Did you ever see his body?

I don't know under what circumstances he was killed

Texas State Library and Archives Commission
~

o·)

 601

A

I did not. I was seventy-five or eighty miles from

there and seventy-five miles from there--Q

You had gone back to Rio Grande City?

A

I had gone back to

Q

Did you make any investigation of why the killing

~io

Grande City.

occurred?
.A

I did not because Captain WriBht oame down there; he got

there--there were Rangers at Heb bronville and Captain Wright was
f arther

u~,

near Laredo, and he camo down there, so I di d not

investigate it.

Q

What wa s th e namos of thos e boys who did the shooting?

A

Frederico Lopez and Sabas Ozuna.

UR. LACKEY:

Q Did you or any of your party the night Villa-

real was arrested or stopped put your pistol in his mouth?
A

No, sir, I didn't do anything like that.

Q

Was that the only time the pistol was pointed at him,

when you told him you were going to eearoh him end he stepped
back and you pointed the pistol at his atomaoh?
A

Yes, sir.

Q

That was t he only time the pistol was drawn?

1m.

TIDWELL:

Did you make him lie down on his back on the

no, sir;

I had .him to sit down. as I explained to you

ground?
A

while ago.
Q

Was there any one cho'kir.tg hlm by the throat, or any

transaction like that occurred?
A
BY

No, sir; nothing like that occurred.

im.

:MoHILLI.N:

Q

What did you find on Villereal when you

searched him?'!:
A

Collins got a big knife off of him.

He did
notArchives
have any Commission
fire arms;?
Texas StateQLibrary
and

50·~

I

I

 A

No, sir.

Q

What did you do to him to make him aet down? You said he

didn't want to sit down?
A

I told him that he had to sit dov:n. I told him he had to

sit down, and he sat down.

Q

If he had not done it what would you have done to him?

A

I guess I would have oaught hold of him by the arm and

pulled him down.
Q

I

You did not exhibit your gun, you kept your gun 1n your

hand al 1 the time?
A

I drew my gun when I went to nDrest him and after we

searched him I put rrry gun back in my scabbard.
EXAMINED BY

Sr~NATOR

'TILTJ!FORl).

Q

Wh&t was the name of that deserter you were looking for?

A

Alonzo Sanchez.

Q

Ylhat was the name of the man you killed?

A

Liaandros Munoz.

Q

You say the man's name was Sanke.y?

A

~o,

Q

Why didn't you ssk that fellow 1f that was his name?

A'

I did. I

Q

~hen

A

I <1.id.

Q

What did he say?

A

He would not answer. Ho mumblod eometh tng; I could not

sir, !lonzo Sanchez.
c~lled

him by that, "Alonao."

he waked up why didn't you ask him?

understand.

lll

Q

When he got up

A

He straightened up on his cot first.

Q

And then sat down again?

A

No, he did not sit down again. He straightened up in his

sat back down on his cot?

oot, sitting up in the cot, this way.

Texas
and
Archives
Commission
~ () l StateQ Library
He d1 dn
• t get
up?

 A

Not right then.

Q

How close were you to him?

A

Three or four feet sway from him.

Q

Was your pistol in your hand?

A

Ne, sir.

Q

Why didn't you---

A

I had

Q

Ybu

A

I "id.

A

No.

Q

Why did you get up oloae enough to a strange man to

rifle in my hand.

my

bed it ready

for uae?

He did.

grab your rifle?
ne~er

thought he would attempt anythine lilce that.

A

I

Q

You were a Ranger in the night, araresting a desperate

man and got close enough to him to grab your weapon?
A

It was just at daylicrht; you could see a little.

BY MR. KN!OHT:

Q Did ,you all hit either of those boys

over the head with a revolver or anything else to make them con-

fess?
A

No, sir.

Q

Did you apply any violence at all to them?

A

No, sir.

Q

Did you infliot any bruises upon them o'L any kind?

A

llone at all.

BY 1m. Mo?!ILLI.li!

Q

!:tow long did the man 11 ve a:tter he was

shot in the groin?

Texas State Library and Archives Commission
)l))

A

He Bied immediately.

I say. he d1ellt immediately because

 when the shot .was fired his brother
- aolred me ~hat had happened
nd I told him, then his cousin said, "Is he dead?" ! says "I
don't know, see if he is, if he is not we will get a dootor," so
his brother went and felt of him and . be V!sa dead, so he died

immediately.
Q Do you know where his cousin is now?

BY MR. TIDWELL:
A

Which cousin?

Q

The cousin to the one tha t died?

A

I don't kno'\".

1;

he is still tho r e in Starr county, I sup-

pose. lie was practically raised there.
Q

r.11at was his name?

A

Zarogosa Sanchel•

Q

Is that boy's fathor still living at that place?

A

Yea;

Q

Whet' is his name?

A

Jesus Sanchez.

Q

You say you understand that he owns a place and lives

l•

I understand he owns the little

pl~ce

there.

there?
A

The home, I understand, is his.

Q

Did you go into the house that raorning?

A

N~,

Q

You did not
know who else was in the house?
.,.
I do not. but I didn't know what that man who was sleeping

A

sir.

there at that other cot had under his pillov:. It is customary
in that oountry, if you have a aixehooter, to put it under your
pillow. and I didn't know but what he would smoke me up a little
bit.

BY SENATOR WILLIFORD:

Q Did you get your deserter?

A

lio, sir.

Q

Why didn't you go in the house to see if he waa in

30" State
there?
You went
that house
after him,
Texas
Library
andto
Archives
Commission

lVhy

didn ' t you look

 in there to see if he w.? s in there?
A

..

I was in enough trouble then. I didn't oare anything

ab out oatehing the ieserter aftor a thing like that occurred.
V,1 e

had

tfO

BY MR.

to catch that morning .
~IDWELL:

Were you Hangers furnished with a list of

deserters down there'? .
A

·We had an awful h3rd time gettine a list from the Board

there but we finally got

8

list from theM nno it is a large One,
I

too.
Q

Had you been furnished with a list at this time?

A

Yes; I always carried it in my pocket, and this man had

notice of it--it was posted at the post off ice.
Q

Do you kno•.v the name of those two .li'ederal o:ff ioers

who were present at the time you haa this trouble with Villereal?
A

They changed the Military authorities there so often

it is hard to renembcr but I am pretty sure it was

Ca~tain

Dunn.

Q

He was the intalligonoe officer?

A

He was what t hey oalled tho officer of the a ay that

night.

Q

A military camp there?

A

It is a foLta

Q

Whe.t

A

Fort Ringgold.

1s ·the name of the place?

BY HR. LAC1!3Y:

A

It i s at Rio Grande City, isn't it?

Yes, sir.

BY MR. CANALES!

You s aid that those two boy.s, the ones

with Villereal, three boys, one of them was a Mexican citizen;

1ou turned him looee a:m. the other two were slaokers?
A

Yes, sir.

Q

lan't it a fact those two boys hau not been registered

beoau8 e registration day had not e rrived yet'

Texas State Library
and
Archives
A
They
were
going toCommission
try to get out

of the country.

 Q

That is your opinion. Could they have registered before

that time?
A

Ho;

they could be errested and put under bond for

trying to avoid registration.
ti~e?

Q

Could they have registered before that

A

No, sir; aertainly not.

Q

Don't you know th.at those grtps you examined belonged

to tho boy that was a Mexican cl tizen and was e;oing to Mexioo?
I

no, air; they said that those grips were theirs; I
don't know who they belonged to.
.

.

Q

Wasn't you present at the examining trial the next

day or two or three days after that'?
A

Ito, sir.

Q

Wasn't you present at the time those boys were examined

there?
A

Ho. ·air; I had. to r;o otlt in tho country.

Q

Isn't it s fact you were there. present et that time

'

and you heard him testify and those boys tell the U.

s.

Commission

er that they had given you that information beonttse you had given

the!~ome tr~atmcnt

that you had given Villoroal?

A

I was not thor~; I was out in the 001mtry that day.

Q

They te~t1.fied to that· fact, didn't they?

A

I was not there. If they testified to it how oould I

know?
THE CRAIRHAU:
A

What was done with them?

I was informed, I don't know--

THE CHAIRMAN: · If you don't know clon't tell.
A

They were placed under bond.

UR. KNIGHT:

I wanted to show the number of deserters and

the number of men th.et really got in the army from Duval County,
.

.

just for your infortlll t1on.

Q

Do you know the number of, the total number of deserters

Texas State
Library and Archives Commission
from---t

() \..)

f

 THB CHAIRMAN: Wait a minute. As far ae I am concerned r
don't think it is admissible. I think it is going to open
up a field we never would finish.
UR. TIDWELL:

How many mon that had actually deserted from

the army or failed to respond when onlled for military service
did you arrest during that period of. time, down there,

~f

you

remember?
A

I

I arrested, I don't remomber,- I v.-o ulcl have to look

up the records. I arrested many and thore

~ore ~any

I.

that-- I

oen explain why we did not arrest moro too.
THE

CHAIH~.IAN:

I r.i sh you would ans".":er the question and not--

GENERAL HARLEY:

A

Just state the number.

I don't remember the number, sir.

MR. KUIGHT: Approximate 1.t as near au you ce.n, if you have

a way?
A

If you will give me time to look over a list I have in

my pocket I can tell you pretty no3r about how many I arrested.
SEUATOR PAGE:

Ho\'.' many did you arres t?

A

I could not tell you, sir.

Q

Uine or ten?

A

Oh, Christ! lJore than thet.

Q

Twenty- five?

A

Oh, probably about that many.

SENATOR PAGE: That is all right.
UR. LACKEY:

Q Mr. Edds, this man

th~t

claimed to have been

killed, or "evaporated"- ...whate·ver you oall 1t, that they started
up to Hebbronville With there, were theJ:" any cases -pending
against him in Hebbronville?
A

No, there wasn't any oases filed aga1mt him yet. Lots

of times when we want them badly we don't file cases against them.
Q

You say he was supposed to be charged with horse theft?

A

In Jim Hogg count·y .

Texas
. . o< State Library and Archives Commission
t)

·

I

 Q

liebbronville is the county seat of that oounty?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

They started wi. thhim to

A

To the t place.

Q

Where was that ran.oh you went to from Rio Grande when

Jc; hat

county seat?

you were excused by the district attorney, where

~as

that ranch

located?

A

In Jim Rogg county.

Q

Then

A

Uo, sir.

L

l'l'i

was ·not in Starr county at all, this man?

SENA'.lOR WirT :

You say those fellows were arrested for

hor ae theft?
A

Yes, sir.

Q

Have

A

No; there are many men we want that we don't file oases

any warrant?

against.
TEE CHAIH!:l{A?i:

A

What becomes o:f' them if you don't file cases?

Will you let me explain why we don't file oases against
We have to do it in that country. ! can explain it to you

them?

why we don't file oases

SENATOR

WILLI~ORD :

agai~st

Don't

them.
~eed

a warrant to arrest a man

in that oountry'?

A

If you go ahead and file a case against him before 7ou

arrest him he is one of those fellows on the dcd ge bl ck e.nd

forth the river, the moment you file a cese against him it gets
out that day and in two days they know it aoross on the other aide
and it is impossible to keep anything seoret there with that

orooked bunch.
SENATOR WILTJIFORD: You oan answer this as you like.

Have

7ou ever been oherged w1 th the oommiesion of any felony, unl ess
you are indicted for killing this fellow down there now?

Texas
State Library and Archives Commission
) ) You need not. you cannot be compelled to answer.

 A

Well, under those circumstances I will refuse to answer

it then.
Q

Answer this then, if you oare to:

Havo

?OU

ever been

oonv1oted of any felony? .
A

No, sir; nor indicted either until just now.

-

I will ask you to stete, to relieve your self

1m. KNIGHT:

of any odium, v.rhethor or not you v:ere ever ina.icted for any

felony prior to this time?
A

no, sir, I was never indicted for an y thing.
--- --- --- 0 --- --- ---

Tirn CHA !RUA lr:

The Committee Will now rise to re-convene

at t.wo o'clock.
--- --- --- 0 --- --- ---

February 7th.

AF TE RH 0 0 N

The

Joi~~
1\t

S E S S I 0 N.

CoID!!littee of the Senate end the House to investi-

gate tho charges against the Texas Ranger Force, re-convened at
two o'clook, P.

n~

F.

c. DECKER,

havtng boen duly sworn by Mr. Tidwell, of the Joint
&>mmi tte·e, testi fled before the Committee as follows:

THE CHAIRMAN:

This young man is here from Eastland and

it is important that he get awey at onoe and I am assuming the
responsibility without seeing li!r. Ford, who· had him subpoenaed,

State
5Texas
l to
haveLibrary
him putand
on Archives
the stand,Commission
and I will indicate

the exsm1nat1on

 CS2.0

and you gentlemen can conduct 1t as far as you want.

THE CHAIIDtAN:

c.

Giva the stenogre1'hcr your name.

A

F.

Q

Where do you 11 ve?

A

In Ee.et land.

Q

How long have you lived in Eastland?

A

About twelve years.

Q

In wbnt business are you now engaged?

A

! am hauling woo a, helplng in hauling mo cl.

Q

Did you live there about n yesr ago?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

Have you recently been in the service?

A

I have been in eight months.

Q

Dnrinc the time the. t you have lived there have you

Decker, Filmore Decker.

eeen the Texas Rangers thcr e?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

About a year ago did you meet one

o~

more of them azil

have a conversation with them?
A

I met two of them.

Q

Just state to the committne, if you don't know their

names give a description of them, as near as you oan and tell

what oocurro<1 betvfeen you and them?
A
and

One of them was a heavy set big man with a black mustache

l~oked

to be ab out, maybe ab out five feet eleven inches high.

something along there, and this other fellow was a tall slim,
eliok-faoed fellow.
Q

Where?

A

At Ranger.

I

~as

coming down tho street one morning---

I had a pint o! whisky in m7 pocket and

they seen 1t and oalled me off behind a restaurant.and wanted to

talk to me ab out it. I went out behind the re ataurant with them
and the7 said .,Where did you get that whisky?"

I told them I got

Texas State
Library
Archives
Commission
it from
I. D.and
Davis,
Fort Worth.
I didn't no more than get it

 out of my mouth when they said "You are a damned liar" and
knocked me down and handcuffed me ar·ound a tree and phoned to
the sheriff and deputy to oome after me.
Q

You say they handcuffed you around a tree?

A

tea, sir.

Q

Where did that ooour?

A

Right behind the restaurant.

Q

Was it in a public plaoe where the public could see

A

Yes, sir.

Q

How long did they leave you?

A

About two hours, or two hours and a half.

Q

What size tree was it?

A

It was about a foot through, I think.

Q

Could you reach around it comfortably?

A

Yes, .sir.

Q

How high did they fastexn

A

I stood up, you know, and that is as high @S they put

Q

Did they injure you in any way except knocking you down?

A

No; that was ell.

Q

Which one of them hit you?

A

The biggest one, the blaok muataohed one.

Q

You say you don't know either one's name?

A

No, sir.

Q

Who was your sheriff at that time?

A

Lawrence, I don't know his initials.

Q

Who came and got you?

A

Lawrence.

Q

Lawrence aame himself?

A

Yea, air.

you?

your hands?

me.

Q

Did they take you to Eastland?
Texas
Yes, and
sir. Archives Commission
~1t~ State ALibrary

 Q

Did they file any complaint against you?

A

No. air.-- yes they did, too. They put a drunk fine

against me.
Q

Did you .plead guilty to 1t?

A

Yea. plead guilty to it.

Q

Was that in the day time or night?

A

It was in the daytime.

Q

Did they take the whisky away from you?

A

Yea, sir.

Q

What did they do W1 th 1 t?

A

The sheriff taken 1 t home w1 th him and when they

turned me loose they gave 1 t baok to me.
Q

Were you drunk at the time?

A

No, sir.

Q

Had you been drunk?

A

No, sir.

Q

Disorderly in any way?

A

No, Sir.

Q

Why did you plead guilty?

A

Well, I had to: I could not beat tt.

Q

You thouhg it was the easiest way out of it?

A

lea, sir.

Q

How muah fine did you pay?

A

I laid it out.

Q

-

in jail?

A

Yea, .sir.

Q

Are you a man of family?

A

Yes, air.

Q

How much family?

A

Five oh ildren.

Q

Wife?

,) 4
Texas
State Library and Archives Commission

A

Yes, sir.

(
I

i

 Q

You live in the town of Kast1and?

A

No, I 11vet about five miles from Eastland.

Q

On· the farm?

A.

Yee, sir.

Q

Where did you live at that time?

A

About seven miles from

Q

What time of the year did th.is oocur?

A

I don't remember

Q

Was 1t in the summer. spring or winter?

A

Kind of 'in the spring or Winter.

Q

How long did you sta1 in jail?

A

I stayed in about six days , I believe.

jus~

~a atland

at that time.

what time of the year it was.

EXAMINED BY MR. KNIGHT.
Q

I didn't oatoh your name?

A

Filmore Deoker.

Q

You reside five miles from Kaotland?

A

I am now.

Q

Where were you residing then?

A

I liTed about seven miles

Q

Where?

A

Borth of £astland.

Q

In the country?

A

Yea, sir.

Q

What town were you arrested in?

A

Abilene--- You mean registered?

Q

No. that you were arrested in?

A

Ranger.

Q

Any · juatioe of the peace or constable in Ranger?

A

No, sir; Texas Hangers.

Q

Didn t have . any precinct officers? ·

A

I suppose so; I don't know.

.

.

from Baetland then.

I

Texas State Library
Commission
Q
Whenand
wasArchives
this?

 A

It was about a year ago.

Q

Before or after 7ou got in the army?

A

It was before I got in the army.

Q

You say you have got five ohildntn?

A

Xes, sir•

Q

How old are you?

A

~enty-nine.

Q

Did you urge ,-our exompt1ona to the board?

A

I didn't have no show to.

1

I am thirty now.

l

f

Q

Why not?

A

They would not give me no showing.

Q

Who would not?

A

Would not let

'trI1

wife a1gn the questionnaire for me.

Just sent me right on•
Q

Who would not?

A

Them Bangers and the sheriff. and deputy sheriff.

Q

What did the .t<angers have to do w1 th it about you

signing the registration oard?
A

They a re the ver7 ones that tied on to me fire t; they

started it.
Q

How?

A

TheY, knocked me down at Ranger.

Q

About what?

A

Because I had that pint of whisky.

Q

I am not asking you about that. I am asking you

about your getting into the ar1n1? Why did--where did ,-ou get
in the army?
A

Why did I?

Q

Yes?

A

Because .I was workel into it because I didn't have no

eduoat1on. dian' t know how to get out of it.
Q

Who worked you into it, the Ra?Jgers?

A

Yes, I suppose so.

Texas State Library
and
Commission
Q What
didArchives
they do to
work you into it?

 A

They throwed me in jail. I knew I never had any question-

naire and While they had me in jail they ru~tled up my questionnai e
and brought it to me to be fixed out and didn't given l1l1" wife no
ohanoe to sign 1 t.
Q

Who brought it up?

A

The jailer. deputy sheriff brought the papers up.

Q

The jai 1er?

A

Yee, sir.

Q

What's his name?

A

Joe Hague.

Q

Did you know him?

A

Yea, sir.

Q

Did he know you were a farmer out there?

A

lie knew I wae out there. yes, sir.

Q

What did the jailer do ab·out it~

A

He just brought the papers up the re, him and the lawyer

and fixed it up· and sent the papers to Abilene and did not
give my wife no ohanoe to sign it.
Q

The lawyer was thore?

A

Yea. sir.

Q

What waa the lawyer 1 a niune?

A

I don't know. tle was a one- armed lawyer.

Q

Rad he been there before?

A

1

Q

He

A

Yes, sir.

Q

Did 7ou tell him you had five children and a wife?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

How long were you in the ermy?

A

Eight months.

Q

Where?

A

Camp Cody. N. ll. and Campt Dick, N. J.

es; he lives there.
was known of the people there?

Texas
andyou
Archives
Commission
When were
arrested
about th ie whisky?
- State
'"/ Q Library

 A

About a year ago.

Q

Before or

A

Before I was in service.

Q

!rhey arrested you at Abilene?

A

No; at ltanger.

Q

They arrested you behind a Restaurant?

A

Yes, air.

()

And handcuffed you to a tree?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

That was in broad daylight?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

.Anybody in town?

A

Yes. sir.

Q

Who were they?

A

Lots of them; I 4i'lt' know. who.

Q

Anybody you knew?

A

Not as I know of.

Q

Then tlis deputy sheriff didn't g1v e you any ohanoe,

a~er

you were in service?

the deputy sheriff didn 1 t give you any cha?lOe?

A

Yes; I knew one' man, Luther Da.enport.

Q

What d1 d he do about it?

A

Nothing;. just came around and seen me.

Q

What did he say?

A

Didn t say anything.

Q

How 1ong did you know Luther

A

About twelve years.

Q

He

A

Xea, sir.

Q

He did not say anything?

A

lfo, sir•

Q

He was a

A

There was a good big orowd around; I guess there was

I

kne~

~avenport?

who you were?

~riend

of yours?

Texas State
Library
Archives Commission
a hundred
menand
there.

 Q

How did you got

A

I was discharged.

Q

When't

A

I got out about four days before Christmas.

Q

Where'?

A

At Camp Diak, N. J.

Q

Who did you tell about this .traneaotion out there at

o~t

of the army?

Ranger?
~id

A

Who

Q

Yes?

A

Well. I don't' know as II told anybody.

Q

You P.l ead guilty?

A

Yes. sir.

Q

.Mr. Davenport • your friend, was there 1n the county?

A

Yea, sir.

Q

Anybody else there that you knew?

A

No·, not as I know: of.

Q

Been 11Ving there twelve years?

A

No, not in Ranger. ·

Q

I mean th ere in the t county?

A

I know lots of people ·in the county.

Q

K~ow

A

tea. sir.

Q

Know the county judge?

A

1 es,

Q

Justice of the Peace?

A

Xes, e1r.

Q

The . coun~y clerk?

.A

Ho, sir •

Q

You knew all those people and yet you plead guilty?

A

Yea, sir. · ·

Q

Did you know any lawyer there?

I . tell?

anybody in Abilene'

sir.

r,: t q
Texas
StateALibrary
and Archives Commission
Yes, sir; .Dick Hunt.

\

 ..
Did you ask any of those friends or tell them about

Q

being pers•outed?
A

No;

didn't tell them anything about it.

Q

What were the names of those Ranvera?

A

I didn ' t know them•

Q

Did you a:sk 1our

~r1end

Davenport what their mimes

were?

A

No, sir.

Q

Did you ask the sheriff what their names were?

A

Never asked nobody, no.

Q

Hade no attempt in the world?to find the names of the

two strangers that came and chained you to e tree 1n breed daylight?
A

No, air.

Q

You are .a man of fam11y and five children?

A

1ea, sir.

Q

And have been living there in that county twelve years?

A

Yes, sir.

THE CHAmllA?f:

You ar,e repeating a good many of the statenente

made by the witness.
HR. KU!GHT.

You know this 1s not a jury trial.

No, it is not, Your Honor, but at the same time

I think a matter of this sort, the testimony will be seriously
ooneldered. I don ' t know that this committee will--THE CHAIRMAN:

done that

1~

If it 1e true and 1t is shown that they have

is going to be very seriously considered.

MR. KIHGHT:

I want to show 1t is not true. It is absurb.

There is no evidence ot 1te truth here; there is no evidence of
its identification.
THE ~ CHAIRUAN: I lmow the sheriff very well and have taken
his name and will have them summoned. The thing I am objecting
to is the ·r~petition and burdening the record.

MR. KNIGHT:

I just thought probably the committee wanted

Texas State
Commission
to lsLibrary
ar it. and
ThisArchives
is an unusual
thing to me.

 THE CHAIRll.AN:
MR. KNIGHT:

No, not constant repetition.
I wasn't oonacioue of the repetition.

I am

weak, I admit.

THm OHAIRKAN:
that kind.
Q

No, we are not making any accusation of

(llr. Knight.)

Would you know th oee men if 7ou saw them?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

Have you seen them since? "'

A

One time; yes, sir.

Q

Where?

A

Seen them at Eastland.

Q

Did you find out what their names were then? .

A

No, sir.

Q

How often have you been in jail in the last twelve

years?
A

I have been in it a good many times.

Q

How many times? ·

A

I don't kriow just how many times. four or five times,

I gueae.
Q

What

A

Well, one of them was assault and

Q

Assault and attempt to what?

were tbe ohargee?
~~

attem~.

A

Assault and attempt to murder, I guess, thst is what
they put against me.
Q

What else did they put 7ou in jail for?

A

I

Q

Just think now a moment, what else now did they put tou

do~'t

just remember.

1n for ?

Q

Thay put me in a time or two for being drunk.
You were not drunk on this oocasion?

A

No, sir.

Q

Where did

A

I.

Q

Were you in Fort Worth?

A

').

».

you get that whisky?

Davis. Fort Worth.

Texas State Library and Archives Commission
~

hJ

-

 A

lio, air.

Q

How did you get it?

A

I ordered it.

Q

Ordered it?

A

Yea, sir.

Q

How oftenhave 7ou

A

Twice • .

Q

Where?

A

Eastland.

Q

Both at Eastland?

A

Yea, .sir.

Q

What were you in jail for? on those two occasions?

A

Well, one of them was for aeeault and attempt, I think

broke~

out of jail?

,
l

ad . to murder. and the other was for being drunk.

Q

You broke out of jail tw1oe? Were the Rangers advised

of your reputation or not

y

I mean thooe parties that. arre.ated

you?
A

No, sir.

Q

I mean tho sheriff and those you knew there, di.a they

know who you were?

A

The sheriff, he did, yes, sir.

Q

Have 7ou seen those partie s here thit handou!fe4 7ou

to that tree?
A

·n o, sir.

Q

Have you seen them about town here?

A

No, sir.

Q

You say tha·t that man deliberately knocked you down,-

wi th what?
A

With his fiat.

Q

Were you resisttng arrest?

A

No, sir.

Texas
andgoing
Archives
Commission
-')•) StateQLibrary
Were you
through
any menacing
'-

conduct at all?

 A
Q

No, sir.
Complacent like you are now, and he knocked you down?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

A great deal bigger man than you are?

A

Yee,

Q

They were armed?

A

Yest

sir.

s1r.
That was done in a Christian, civilized co!!lmunit7 in

Q

broad daylight and nobody complained about it and you plead
guilty to the offense?

sir.

A

Xca,

Q

You can stand aside.
EXAMINED :BY MR. TIDWELL.

Q

Was it at Ranger they knocked you down or at Abilene?

A

It was at Ranger.

Q

Vlaa

A

No, air.

your wife at Abilene?

THE CHAIRMAN:

You misunderstood him. He said he registered

at Abilene.

:.m.

TIDWELL:

A

Thirty years old.
You d1dn I t have your wife to sign the questionnaire?

Q
A
Q

You say you are how old?

Ilo, . sir.
How came you did not have your wife to sign the quest-

ionnaire?
A

They told her she oould sign the next one that came, t~

next paper that came· and she oould sign 1t and the7 bad me where

I didn't. have no ehow1Il8•
Q Did you go ~o the town of Abilene to sign that questionnaire?
A
BO•and
sir.Archives Commission
Texas State Library
Q

~here

did you sign it?

 A

At Eastland. right in the jail. They knew I didn't

have no education and didn't know how to fir that up and I
fi~ed

it up the best way I knew how.
Q

Did you swear to that questionnaire?

A

Yes. sir•

Q

Did you recite the fact 1n that questionnaire th.et you

had a wife and five children?

A

Yes, sir,and I put my name down in the wrong place and

I ought not to. I didn ' t know and the lawyer didn't tell me.
BY llR. LACKEY:

Did 11:1e ·1awyer help you make it out?

A

Yea. sir.

Q

You told him those facts?

A

Yes, s1r.

Q

lie gave you no opporuntty to have }our wife sign 1t?

A

No, sir,

Q

You noed not ansWer this question unles·a you

t'

\

gave

m~

have you been·oonvicted

.

no opportUJ:?.ity at all.

for~ anyth1ng

Yes, sir.

Q

Orie other time?

t o:

else than this drunk you were

on at the time?
A

wan~

MR. KlHG HT ' S EXAUI.HA TI ON.
Q

What were you convicted for at that time"'?

A

I don't remember.

Q

Were you ever in the penitentiary?

A

Yee, sir.

Q

How many times?

A

One time.

Q

When was that?

A

It has been about ten )ears ago.

Q

How long were you there?

A

Eighteen months. twon·ty- two months.

Texas State QLibrary
Archives Commission
That and
is all.

 EXAMINED BY MR MCiilLLIB:
Q

Can you read and write?

A

No, sir.

Q

You didn't know anything in that questionnaire except

just what the1 told .you was in 1t?
A

Yes, air.

r

MR. TIDWELL:

Didihe Governor grant you

Q

pardon when you oame out of

the penitentiary?

A

No, air.

MR. MouILLIB: Where did you go from to the penitentiary?

A

Abilene.

UR. KNIGHT :
don~t

What did you go there tor?

A

I

Q

Stand aside.

MR.

LAC~Y:

remember.

How do you lmow these men that· arrested you were

Rangers?

I wae
.. told they were •

A

Q · Who told you?
I

A

I don' t remember who it was.
~

; How many

Q

11

•

•

people did you aak?

I

A . tI asked · several •
.'

Qi
peop~e·
•

'

/A

I

Ooutd you call the names so you oould identify those

y9u

;':/Q

•
~~ked?
1

'

.No, ·I never did f1nd out their names at all.
.

I

•

Vler~ th~ .so.ppoaed "'"angers present when you asked 1t

tJ(e~were Rangers or not?
.'.

.. .
I;
/

l

.

·A

lio, sir •

\Q.

How do you know how to identify them?

i

'

, : A I just supposed they were Rangers.
,...')r: / State
1f { Library and Archives Commission
Texas

7 {~

,
I

 Q

Who did you ask, were the Rangers and the people present ·

when you asked them?

A

llo, sir.

Q

VI.hat did you ask them?

A

I asked them were they Rangers, Texas Rangers.

Q

Were who Rangers?

A

The people that knooked ·me down.

Q

How did they know who knocked you down? Yous ay they

were not present when you asked them?
A

They we.re not present when 1hey knooked me down.

Q

Hou did you identify them when you asked them?

A

I just asked weee they Hangers.

Q

Did they know who arrested you?

A

I suppose so.

Q

You suppose so.

SENATOR WILLIFORD:
A

Are you an American oit1zen?

Yes, sir: raised in Arkansas.

THE CHAIR14.AN:

tlentlemen. is there any further questions from

this witness?
UR. KMIGHT:
THr~

CHAIRJ!AN:

A"

Yos, .sir.

Q

Is

A ,

Yee, sir.

h~

No, not a thing.
Did you say Joe Hague was the jailer?

still there?

. .

Which way did you come, by lort Worth?
Ye·a ,' sir.
t

Is that your quiokest way here?
I

I

I think
this other way would be the nearest but they
I

tolwme ·r hed to aome by Fort Worth. If I ha:d come on the fexas
1

I

I

Ce~xal

/

I believe it would be the Dear.est.
~----~------~---~- -~-~---

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 JESSE DENNETT,
having been duly sworn by Mr. Tidwell, of the Joint
Committe, testified as follows:

Examined by Ur. J. T. CANALES:
Q

Do you live in Brownavi.lle?

A

Yee, air.

Q

ITTlere were you born?

A

Brownsville.

Q

Lived there all your life?

A

~ea. air.

Q

How old are you?

A

~enty-nine

Q

What official position do you hold in Brownsville?

A

I am president of the Dennett

•
Automo~ile

Sales Company,

automobiles.
Q

State what official position---

A

City Commissioner.

Q

I

.),
'

)

Were you not also eonneoted with some bank prior to that?

A

Yea, sir.

Q

First t•ational :Bank?

A

Yes, air.

Q

What position?

A

Assistant Cashier.

Q

How long did you

A

Twelve , years.

Q

Do

A

I do.

Q

Do you remember the time Frank

hol~

that position?
,1

you know Frank tt mer?

I

1

1 •

./
. ,·
.
'
went, ,to
(

.tlam:i:

and I

•I

;your

garage early in December?
/

I

'

A

I do.

Texas State QLibrary and Archives Commission

\'lill you. please relate that inoident to the'

I

oo'tµrDf ttee?

 A

I was at my office in the Dennett Motor Sales Company

and I .was hailed

by Mr. Canales and told

to listen to a eonver-

setion that he ba4 had with Mr. Frank Hamer. Ur. Canales then
repeated the conTersation.
Q

What waa that converention?

A "Mr. Ramer has just told me that if I did not qu1t
.
.
monkeying With the Rangers I am going to get hurt." Mr. Ramer
did not say a word.

I turned to Mr. Hamer and asked .him if that

was the truth, and he said. "Yes."
Q

What was Mr. Hamer at the time, do you know?

A

I believe he was a state Rancer.

Q

How long bad he been stationed in Brownsville or had

you seen him around there?
A

I have no idea, no, sir.

Q

Did you hear anything

.A

No, a1r.

Q

That is all.

:f'urth~r.~

THE CHAIRMAN: · What are Hamer•s
MR. CANALES:

WITnESS:

Fran1r Ramer.

I don't know. I know him if I see him though.
~XAMilfED

Q

BY MR. KNIGHT.

Do you know what Mr. Canalee bad been doing ()r saying

regarding the Rangers?

.

A

No, sir, I do not know.

Q

To provoke th1s statement of Mr. Hamer's?

A

No, sir.

Q

What was the apparent animue, if any, on th~ part . of

e~thcr

Texas

initials?

.

man?

A

I have no idea.

Q

They were apparently in good humor while

withLibrary
you: You
know Commission
what had occurred?
State
anddidn't
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No, sir.

Q

You didn ' t know what .had preceded it at all?

.A

I don't know what had 'transpired •

Q

You di c1n~t know that was beiDg done as a pred1oate to

yank 7ou up here as a witness or anything of that sort?
A

No, Bir.

Q

If you had you would not have listened. would you?

A

Yee, I would have gone out and listened, certainly.

Q

You have been down there· a long time?

A

Born

Q

You know something of the service and work of the Hangers

.

.

the ~e - -yea.

in that country in proteoting the li•es and property?

A

Yea.

Q

Tell the Committee in yoil.r own. way what you think ti> out

A

I feel that there is .no more fearless men in the Stete of

them.

Texas than the Te:ras Rangers. I have soen the time in Brownsvil le

when people were afraid to walk on the streets on aooouht of the
Texas Ranger, ana again I have

~een th~

time when the people of

the lower Rio Grande valley welcomed the Texas Ranger there w1th

open arms to defend their homes. When I was with--a minute to say that the impress ion of a

~t

border . to~

me divert

is wrong in
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a more ' peaceful

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the minds of most people. I do not believe there ' is

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oommunit7 in the State of Texas than ~rownsville, and whe~ I say
I

that I mean the !!exican as well

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as the American, be cau8e Browns-

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ville is made up of two-thirds lloxioan ana one-third Amer1oans, and

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believe that the · Mexican is a law abiding per son. ' I-_.:rn.rt~r .

believe that the Rangers should

beawciilr~d by the

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Texas State 'fegis-

lature. Their names should go before the State t.e~1s:iat~e'r' · ou\representativea. end these men discuss the oharaote;s
.

thai ..~~~me\
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up.'Blld. then let them be responsible for the

Texas State Library and Archives Commission
\

 Rangers. I don' t bel1 eve that one man should be made to blame

for their actions entirely.
aotiona of the State

~angers

I :furthermore believe that

in the

on the border that ninety- five per

oont. of their actions--they are used as tools for men higher up.
That is all I have got to say.
Q

Have they rondered nny · aerv1ce in protecting life and

property down there?
A

They certainly have;

yea.

Q

Have they given relief when it oould not be had from the

looal offioers frequently?
A

Yes, sir.

Q

They are only called in there on extraordinary oooasions?

A

Yes, s1r.

Q

They are not held there all the time?

A

In former years they were.

Q

But they never

1nter~ered

unless called on by the 'local

authorities?

A

I don't know about that.

Q

\'/hat about that,- there has been some pretty.-- two

politioal taotions down there in the Democratic party?
A

Yes, sir.

Q

I believe you are a republican?

A

I am.

Q

Things have been

p~etty

warm down there since· the last

election, haven't they?
A

Well, a little bit.

Q

The !<angers have gone down there and inaugurated an in-

vestigation in the alleged election frauds?

A

I believe ao.

Q

~rior

to that time do you know what the fee11ng tma. .

relation of the g•••«s% gentlemen who are now prosecuting the Ranger

Texas
·- ~ l' . State Library and Archives Commission

 frooe wae with ro!erenoe to them?
bel~

A

Xea, !

ve I do.

Q

What was it?

A

Well, ii' I

~aeratand

1 t oor reotly they were on the

Demooratio side.
Q . I understand that. Now then, there was no movement there

to inaugurate this nroceed1ng prior to the last eleotlon?

A

I think not.

Q

It haa all oome on since then? ·

A

Yes, sir.

Q

They have a right hotly contested proceeding in the

Senate Chamber now?

A

That ls what I understand.

Q

Uow yon. know General H rley, of the present administrat-

ion, has been in vogue something over a year:

Do 1ou think the

Ranger foroe baa been any worse in the laet year than it was prior
to thet?
A

Ucll, I don't

kno~.

I have not paid particular attent-

ion to it.
Q

~bat

1s your opinion

bout the

b111t~.

in squally times

along the border and up there in Texas to get along without the

Rang ors?
A

I think they are absolutely eaeential to the State of

Texas throughout; ! don't mean in ono ooflf"'..ninlty but throughout

the State.
Q

Your idea is, of course. that it, with all other govern-

mental instrumentality and functions . should be improved?
A

'rhoy ,oortalnly ought to.

Q

What do you think ebout increased pn7?

A

I think that is

those Rengers

o~e

of the essential thingd, and

appointed by t 'h e .Uog isle.ture, their name s investi -

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 gated and found out who they are and when they out of here from
Austin unbiased, that is, I moan Americans as well as Mexicans,
and they receive a pay suffio1ent to warrant them to be .be men,

I think that your

~anger

service, that this will be the end of

your .Ranger . trouble, absolutely.
Q

You think the foroe ought to be dignified and its power

increased?
A

Yes, sir.

Q

And its wages?

A

There is absolutely no man with law and order in hie

heart that is going to put up with that kind of stuff.
Q

You are in favor of elevating it and dignifying it,

That is all.
f')

BY MR.
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When ,did that conversation with ~eferen.oe to Mr. Cemles
if

ooour?
A

et~?

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Within the past three months. I don't rE1Dember the date.

I never paid any more attention to it uhtil the time I was summoned to oome up here.
Q.

Do you know what led to the conversation?

A

lio, sir.

Q

What did the other man say?

A

•
lir. Hamer told me.- llr. Canales was the one that rppeated

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the oonversation. He aa:vs. "Dennett. I W•nt you to 11st'en tQ what
I

this Ra!lBcr baa to say."

Then Mr. Conalea said he told me

didn't quit monkeying with the Rangers I would get .hurt. '

i\e

Yea; this other J'l'l8n was a ranger.

Q

Was he stationed there?

A

Yes; I know him as such. I known very well. ·

Q \·ihat did· he say?
... 3')
Texas State ALibrary
and Archives Commission
The Ranger did not et:iy a wora.. Then I turned to

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This other man was a ranger?
A

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Ur.

 and said, "Ur. Hamer. is. this true," and he said "Yes."
kno~

refer~ed

Q

You don•t

A

No, I don't know what that referred to at all.

Q

Are you feiendly or unfriendly towards that Ranger?

A

I am very friendly.

Q

Are you 'friendly
or unfriendly
towards Mr. Canales?
'
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I am very ~riendly towards Ur. Canales.

A

what he

to?

!ffi. LACRZY:
Q

Had h o made this remark or had l.lr Canales made this

remark?

I only listened to the repetition by lir. Canales as to

A

what the Ranger had told him a?ld after he got through I asked

the Ranger if thst.was so, and he said, yes • .
~anger

Q

Was the

going to do this to you or to Mr Canales?

A

To Mr Canales, I presllI!le,

Q

Th0re was some question, some difficulty

..

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ales and the Ranger?

Cen-

b~tween
,
. 1 M~

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Yes.

Q

H3ve you had any trouble

A

.

Q

Do you know of any act down there that ~ - Range~ on

No·t

w1 th

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the Ranger J'O~rs~~f? \

I consider him my personal friend.

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the force did that has been on the foroe in the last fift(yon

months that ought to be brought before thie comrni ttee?.
A

No, sir.

Q

You don't

A

No, air.

l

knOVl

anything at all?

..

BY MR. KNIGHT.
Q

/

Are 7ou acquainted with Captain Hanson?
.

A

Yes, sir.

Q

What do you think of him as a man and en officer ,iof

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3 State Library and Archives Commission
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I cannot pass an ·opinion on that. I just met Captain

Hanson about two months ae o and met him for just a few minutes,
that was all.
Q

Outside of this political activity

·~ · there

7ou have

heard no criticisms of him down there?

A
•

No, I have always beard . he stand very high. ·

BY SENATOR VIT'2:

Do aondlt1ons in Brownsville- at this ttme

in your judgment demand Rangers there?
A

I think that the border ought to have Rangers at all

times but more particularly s o now when prohi b ition will go
through next year, there will be an element, sa1oon sots and the
11ke--4?ld when I say this I am not a prohibitionist-- but there
will be a lot Will :follow that, they will follow across the border

and we need protection not only of the poace off icer but all other~
who can oarry out the law throughout the State.

I do :not mean that

the men should be made Rangers .and havo their hands tied behind
his back; however, I do believe he

~hould

be controlled and J:&:de to

carry out the laws of the State o:f Tens as they ought to be.
Q

And during the present times 7ou say when there is nothing
'·

unusual, 7ou say there is a need even now. a need to in:foroe State
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lawa along the border. there is a need of the Rangers beiAS stat"
\
ioned there now?
A

I belie ve at all times the Rangers ought to be

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sta~1oned

along the border.
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 LOUIS BRULAY.

having been duly sworn

by

Ur. Tidwell. of the Joint

CoI:Jmittee, testified as follows:
· EXAMINED BY MR . CANALES.
Q

Your name is Louis Brula;v?

A.

Yes, sir.

Q

Whore were you born?

A

Dear Bro\msville.

Q

Ho\":

A

Almost forty.

Q

Do you know where the Brulay plantation !a located?

A

I should think so; I was born there.

Q

Your mother owns it?

A.

Yes, sir.

Q

How far is that from Brownsville? And in whbh direction?

A

Itis Southeast from Brownsville, about eight and one-half

eld are you?

miles by the rond. ·

Q

~here

does the Pipe p1antat1on lie and in which direction?

A The Piper plantation is just midway
and our place.

my

bat~een Browns~ille

.

~

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Were you there during the Bandit troubles 1n 1915 and 1916?

A

You mean in the county?

Q

Yes.

A

\'Ve11. I was o·u t on the plantation.

Q

Did you keep in touch with that situation?

A

Nothing further than what concerned me right there in

Q

I v.1.11 ask you what, if you know,- If that situation was

na1i~orhood.

relieved, v:as remedied, what the Vias eRuse
A

tm t

remedied it?

Well , the .Mexicans began to leave the country and they,--

Mr. Albert Brown and two or three of us, tried

ou~ very bes~ to .

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Texas State Library and Archives Commission
stop them; they kept on going, ao I took it upon ·myself to 1nvestt53:\

J

 gate the cause of their leaving and I found out they were just
soared to death of tho

~angers.

"Well."

I told them. "I have

lived here all my life.and I don't think I have seen Rangers in
this part of the country over once or twioe and I don't think tbey
are going to bother you."
over to see Colonel

It didn't do a bit of good. so I went ·

B1ocknon~--

Q

Who was in command?

A

He was in command at the post.

I explained the situation

to him and I told him that I thought that if he would station some
troops down there it would have an effect of stQpping the llex1cans from leaving. He then agreed to send the tropps there

and asked me if I

~ould

in command

go elong With the officer

'

to

I

speak to the Mexicens, and we not only went and spoke to them but

we gathered up every gun that they had and we told them distinctly
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that tho objeot of that was th2tm.:iv Mexican caught w1 tli a gun would
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t-µrhed

be oonsidered ~s out of the law and they all cheerfull7
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their

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guns over. The of"fioer gave them aa receipt and,as I und~t~tafl, the

1

guns were kept the re, I suppose fiye or six months, and ith~.: :~:r1-.
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The troops rem~1ne~f; up to

oans th.an stopped leaving the country.
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about four or fl ve months ago they were still there_~ ·
Q

Do you remer:ib.er General Nafarrata?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

Where was he located?

A

Matamoras.

Q

Do you know whether or not he was

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as~·1ating

at that time ?

..

A

Yes, he was.

Q'

Do you remember when he was re11eved?

/

A

Yes, sir.

'

Q

Do you rememb er '\\ho was instrumental 1n asking that he 1

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should be relieved from duty?

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A

No;

I was at the plantation at the time. I don't kno• who.

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

I

 Q

Do you remember that a committee went from Brownsville?

A

l{o. I don •t.

lie says he doesn't . know personally.

THE CHAIR!!Ali:

MR. C.f\ll.'lLES:

It is a matter of general knowledge.• lie may

not know personally.
THE CHA IH.I1A!l: Ask him somoth1ng else.
.
.

Q

Do you know whether or not the bandit raids stopped

immediately after Gen. Rafarrata was relieved there1
A

Yefl, in::ncdintely afterwards.

Q

I will ask you if it is not true that the removal of

Nafarrata trom over there was really .t he oesestion of the bandits?
A

I am po31tive of it.

Q

Do

"JOU

believe that the liansers had anTthing to do with

the cessation of the bandit troublo there?
.A

lio, sir.

EXAh!J:IDJD BY 1ffi. Kll!GHT.

THE :,··rTJ:U;ss:

L1r.

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ine · to .I vil11
y

Chairman, if you will allow

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relsto a 1 i ttle incident 1n regard to Nafarrata, .the ~e~son',r
I

know ho was helping the bandits.

TF..E CHAIR!lAN: Unless

co~nsel

for one side or the

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oth~r

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ask it of you I would not care to assume the respons1b!ltty for
,

it.

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It really has no reference to the Rangers at all.

HR. XlHGHT: We have no objections,

·SO

oerned.

far as, W~ - are con-

.

.

It has no connection with th&. Rang~r~. a'ti all?
A

It hns connection this way, that it' 'shows·.
Ba:tarrata .)
. that
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was the oauae of the trouble and when he wee removed that th8i
trouble stopped.
THE

CHAI!--.~T.AN:

MR. 101!.GilT: Certainly.

Texas State Library and Archives Commission
HR . C.:UTAT,ES:

'

I don't think t"here is any issue on that .l

Let me ask one question.

)37

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Iia:f.'arrata ~as afterwards killed?

 A

Yes, sir.

MR.

KNIGH~:

A

In Tampico.

Was he killed on this aide or the other?

llR. KNIGHT:

t

Didn t the population down there get the

officers mixed, don't they call practically all offieers Rangers?
A

No, sir.

Q

You think not?

A

No, sir.

Q

How long was ~afarrata there across, in 14atamoras,after

the !1.aDgers got down there?

A

I don't know exactly but he was there quite a While.

Q

Quite a whi1e after that?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

And they were still there when he was recalled? '

A

As far as I kniw. yes. They were not around ;--pro,b ably

-

.

,

I was at the plantation, they never wero at the plantation .· o'r
.

:

around that seotion of the country east of Brownav1·11e
southeast, the Rangers never did go down, eo ~ar as

r

or \I .'
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know.

·\

Q

But they were in the.t lower country?

A

Yes, I understood that they were in tha t lower ad~try\;
\
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You say that the average llexioan of the lowe~;· o.~asse~ .(~

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Q

were inspired wt th awe of the "angers?

.

, · .'·

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A

They were after the bandit trouble etart~a_;. ·~ot. pre\v10~~\r ,.,

Q

There had not been any serious trouble there until \
/

band! t trouble did start?

A

No;

!

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ooaasionaly there was some little tht~g! ha~pe~ that

I would hear about but not serious
Q

•

trouble~

Thi a fear on their part grew up ai'ter

began?

~

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th(b_-~1·~ ' i,~le
,· .. ,> ' .. " ·...
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A

Yes, sir.

Q

Ana after the .l'langers were

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there, there-,,..was, ~~r~ ,- e~ t'lae,

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where. a great det~l of German propoganda, was there not?~'
A
If there
I was not
in a po~1t1on to know.
Texas State Library
andwas
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You were not advised of 1t?

A

No, sir.

Q

T.h.~re w~s a propoganda continued in connection with

} Japan and Mexieo in_an uprising against this country?
I

.,

A

Y es. si r.

\'

Q

You heard of it?

A

Yes, sir.

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The Germans resorted to all sorts of propoganda to

'•

'_; g6t liexiaans to cripple the production of livestock and agriculture
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•n this side?

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Yea, I think so.

Q

You were advised of it?

A

Yes, air.

~

Do you know to what extent this

p~opoganda

was induced

I

by German agents and agent a of the Reiser?
A

.Uo, s1r.

Q

Did you

A

Yes, sir.

~

You saw him while he was stationed over there?

A

In i.iatamoras, no, sir. From one time, for what we told

kn~w

Bafarrata poraonAlly?

him in Brownsville I didn't go back to see him.
Q

I understand you di dn't go hick to visit him an7 more?

A

No, sir.

Q

Isn't it a fact you citizens were on the al.ert and stood

in mortal dread of these bandit raid.a during that time?
A

Well. yes, we were.

Q

That is the reason you did not go back to ~xico .- there

is just the river dividing you?
A

As far as I was concerned the only reason I didn't go

back into Matamoras was due to bis presence there; otherwise I

would have gone, although I was asked not to go. I went anyway
until he came and then I quit going.

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 •

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Do you

Q

know

what his connection was with running

Captain Hanson . out of Mexico

t~seme

'1.'

A

No, sir.

,\

Q

You never heard of that?

A

No,

Q

You never heard, never saw him after your interview

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wt\ th.. him

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in Brownsville
when you told him where to get off?
.

A

Bo; that is the last time I saw him.

Q

Mr. Brulay, ·do you predicate your opinioc that Kafarrata

was the inspiration of the raids on
,,

ay?

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knowledge or just

rumor?
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~otuai

A

Yee, actual knowledge.

Q

How is that established?

A

I will tell you how. One night about midnight or so

...

th~re was a ~n who was in the eml>loy of Nafarrata who had
~

o~

lived on

also my

pla?& for years and thought a good deal of me and

!oroman~

he aame over to notify us that there was a raid

planned on the Brulay

~lantation

for the next day. that

~afarrata

had twenty- two men at a certain house in the outskirts of Matamoras, al"Dled for the 't>urpose, and he asked the foreman to tell
me and a1so asked him if he hed a gun. The foreman said no, an:l
he said "Well, I Wi 11 go and get you my grui. n Ile went hi ck e.o rose

the river and

br~ught

him back his 30- 30.lhe next morning when I

got UP--THE CHAffiYAN:

Judge Knight, I again am going to have to

interpose an opjection.

.aa enoumb&ring

We are taking up time and detaining men

the record With absolutely immaterial and irre-

levant matters, and matters, wh1oh, I am sure, will not in any
way effeot the judgment of the committee.

It is interesting

but it is expensive.

MR. KHIGHT:
anything about it.

It is immaterial to us anyway • . we don' t oare

Texas State Library and Archives Commission
)..t.f)

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E.IAlll?lED BY l.!R. LACKEY:

Q

Do you know of any special act of any nanger in the

service w1 thin the 1est fifteen months that ou.eJl t to be called

attention of this oommittoe?
Not of my own knowledge. Uf hearsay, yes.
Just hearsay i a what you know?

Yee. sir.
Do you know of any political situation down there?
Yes. sir.
Was there any very great complaint until the Rangers
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went down there in the -politic al "raid"--was tho r e a!ly great
· complaint about the

'

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one of the, particular instances I refer to I think

took place before that political trouble.
Q

Do you know anything about 1t yourself?

~

No, it was just

.

he~reay

with me.

HR. LACKEY: That is all.
-------

OSCAR

C.

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DAllOY.

having been dUly sworn, testified before the Joint
Committee,

as

follo~s:

EXA?llz;&D BY MR. J. T. CAifALES.

Q

You live in Brownsville?

A

Yes, sir. ·

Q

What is your occupation? A. County Attorney of Cameron

County, Texas.
Q

How long have you resided 1n Brownsville?

A

Ten years in January.

Q

Where did you come from before you came to Brownsville?

A

North Carolina.

Q

You confess to that offense, do you?

Texas State Library and Archives Commission
fl 41

A. Yes, sir.

 W$re YOU in Brownnille during the you.,.8

Q

A Yos, sir.
Q. I!r .. Dancy,

de; ;y~u

or

1~15 and 1916?

knvw of a.n in<:idont i.ha.t took place

on or a.bout April :fourth, 1918, e>t one Ji'le)roncia GD.rcia, cl&imecl

to

h~ve t.!~;n

kllled, h ia corpse

touu~,

ola.imed to have been

kille d ~ ~10 lft R~ers?
A

I d<>.

Q,

'lha.t. c<.1nnec.:tion hQ.ve yo v. had with 1.hcm1

A Well, l proeecuted the case.

l tould like to be allowed

just simply to t e.ke t h e order of timG and. tell y ou all about

the

caao ~

if that is satistactory?

T!IB CIIAlilltAl:t:

Ve a ...k that ho be coni'inecl

i thin reasonable

rules.

rn..
""

C.AlrALES:.

lAr· Dancy has b&en p~actic~ug law tor ten yea.ra.
Y• ask that. you ubaervo tlla rul es '->t evider,ce.

THE CHAlBMJl.li:

THE WITNESS:

.

.

yea j About a week u.t't<»r th.o alieged incident

m old Mexican whom I ltB4 never se•~1 ·before ca.me to my r·esidonoe
in West BrownaTille, came in com1iauy •i U>. e. liexic&.n lll'ho knew m•
very well, h~d

bft.Xl

a fr i and o1: mine i Md ropu1•ted that hits Aton

had been e.rreeteei by· 1>ff icera.
the

l don t t recollect that h• use<l

or<.1. np~ng rr~• b ut h ad boeu ari·~utod .::.r1d b& had n.~t oeeu hi-'11

ftinc4'1, ~'"'l~- ~ant... d t o f'i nd out if I had u.r:y ~omplu.int against him

for Bny 11ftense.

I told him 1 hr.d not.

He anked

so.id he eould not- !ind out £t.nythi:ng ab:;iut it,

v.i;.cl

r.ia

to find out

roll.owing that

1 took t."'ie 7.nL'..tter up, 1 think 1'1.ret with Ca.11te.in Vai.m, asked him
11' h<'t had flJ1!rl auch prisoner.

Ce.pte..iu Vanri advised 1na that the

r;\Ui t1o,ry tt.u.thori tioe orten ~ot those 1>r15onera, a.ml 1 aak:ed the
mili to.ry e.~:thori tie~ ::!.bou t l. t and t.h~y t old m~ they had no euoh

priscnsr and about t h u.t tim~ the Uo:tican consul 'a otfice also

made

a.

complaint

missipg.

1 don't

to my

ott1ce, that one Florenoia Garoia n.e

recollect exactly the order o~ time ~ut not

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

- Ii')

;) "'t

 ~...

1'1cding h.:l.m l took

time end na.me<.l
arre'-'t"'1,

~

t;,

ur.

w.ell t the vld

came ba.clc the second

mw:1

party >1;'ht> aa.w hint, who ho claimoo. aaw th• aon

Will!.auis, whoiu l knew lived bolo• Brownaville

on tl1e P1pGr plantation, and 1 then_ 'phoned \lut . to the Piper

planto.tioa to got

'phort but

~ent.

him e .lett r.

~r.

\'1illiau1~ •

l could net get him on the

-oTCrd fer him tv como 1n to see me.

Re didn't

1 wrote

l eent a. c.iou.nt.y a.ttornoy•a

c ~:.i\t..

:subpoena, !>"l-.tA•}'3d it in ·t ho huncla .<.1£ the ah.er i t f an<l the ahori!:f'

B~abp01lnae<.\

course,

him ,,rid hci cwua

wnu. . . 110

tuld ne 12

tv the a.tJr' 3t, that is
me thnf; the bexiy

he~say.

all~

Of A marl

in and told me the etory.

ot

It ie tJimply relating

Latex- on 1.nfonua.tion was given to

hs.d

bGGl'.l

founds in tact, all. the in-

:tormation mowed \.lw.t th& pt"iSOnfl.l" hE:.d been a.n-ested below
~rownsvill

; had boen oarried, aa 1 recollect 1t. donn th• river

e.nd to Point l34bal.

Later the

in1"onn~t1on

ca.119 to mo that

b'.X\;;,. ot ....... that the bonee ru.th~r, bones und. cl.otbu ot
known ru:L11 had

1Ht sn.

f otmd, fi.)un1.i at 'Ray

£\0

&

un•

lhi ta• paat.urf1 bet•••

:Hruwnnille and P{)int Isabel., nat dir~ctly un th.G nrotJl'llSV1ll•

a.nd :P<>:b1t loa'bl'tl roa.o. 1 bl.4t i•ather on tlte

aa.n

l?enito and. Point.

Ioa.bttl road; and thl li~xl~M oonot,l •a a.ff ice aleo notified
me of th$ aam~ 1'aot, or n.:nyh1.nr, l g ot notice a.nd.tMmd. out that

they PJ11r• going dc.~n ~..h rs and l ! t i t th~ e uruter at1 tge circ\i.Jllttt.anc .,s it

i:'Ta.6

m:I' duty t o g o down th~rt'.

80

the J\\$t1o• or

the P~~ccs ~d. the midt\r~.ker and representatives ot t.i'l~ aheri!f 'e 4E:ipa.rt:nent, il.r. Barnoe, \tho is horo, and lir. Kirk, Jue-

t1cc

or

the Peaeo, uh ; 15

&ltW

here,

tt1l

~•nt cl.Om the :rollow-

ine; ~voning. ..J1e morniug t ollowi n c:: the ov~ning l gc't a report
1

01.'

the rinding of thio boet:,i, s.bo1.ct four or tive o•clocl: in th•

attornovn.

l b ~li~v~, lly :re!reuhing m...v m~mory f'r-0m e.. :letter

l wroto ct th~ tbns: th':i.t it waa about May 20 or alut that. ••

wont doml ~~ the rsmain6.

Be!oTa l s&t to ttw.t pQ:L.ui, the ol4

man, the i'ather or the boy, was at my off'ice.

Be was i.t Dl3 ot-

tice t\70 or three timea Q.lld 1111' reDidence onoe.
mauy times he came to aee ma about it, but 1
Texas State
Library and Archives Commission

1 4on•t kilo• ho•

asked tbe ol'1 man _,

 identity the boy• my recollection ia he told me that he wa.a a
little bit tall and 1 rorget the age; he told me about how old.
he wae. but he specified that he

h~d.

a co11boy hat., trom the in•

!onr.ation 1 had it n.a a cowboy Stettton 1 a. lieht hat., a.a die•
cl~n' ii

tinfJ u&aha<l trO't:l a blaok llat, l

remer.iber the col or, and

a. co•l><>Y bx-own or redd..tfW. brvwn, soruethilJ.g
I thh!k

tll~.

old W\l.:l $.(}.enti.fi•i

lect JMst exactly 91141-t he said

theae i1arties and. the 1.iexioan
resentative there. I

the JUst1ca Gt the
repreeent.a.ti~es

b~l1eve

Pe~oe,

'lh~t

~t

Jumper.

l don't reool-

l nnt down in company with

ottie•. they had a rep-

Ur. Garza ·ia peraon was there, an4
~

l.lr.

Roman. e. Bane6r• and the two

of the sheriff 'a department, aud trr. J'aire, Who

WI) t"otmd a pair of

Q

h.i.~ ~hoee to~. 1.rt~t

cons~'"

io now a. cadet at We3t :Point.

a s12irt,

lik~ tlu~t.,

p~ts

We found boues or a human being.

and a jumper and. a.a 1

recollect. it,

. black hair and a hat.

color ot a hat?

A Light ho.tar

<i Stfttson? ,

A A light

T~xa.tJ

oo1'boy Stotaon hat. "1th tho wore •L. Garebo

& Sons• on the inside, and as 1

r~collect

mourning on the out•

side.

are

r...

Gtlrebo & Sona?

Q,

.i10

A

A firm ot 11$rchanta in Bromaville..

holes.

bull~t-holes

a conclva1on ot

--- I

a~id

th~ ~itnass,

'1'.b.ere vrere aome

bullet holee, -- perhaps that ie
there were holes, i t 1 may be al-

lowed to state my opinion, there wera holea through the jacket.
Q,

Bow many?

A 1'•o, perhaps tllree.

I E-m going to tell you "13y 1 didn't

impreoa that &o torcibly, becauee the sheritr•s department took

charge ot the clothes and 1 inatruoted the:m, and

o~

courae pre-

sumably they needed no inatruction> but l discussed •ith them
the importance ot keeping those cloth.ea to be shown in the trial

ot the case, and consequently 1 did not impreaa

Texas State
;)-t..i
aa 1 Library and Archives Commission

my mind aa

much

 otherwise would, but afterwards I ca.'!le back to Bronnsville and
investigated, from an investigation of the records of the firm
and also from knowledge of the clerks of L. Garibeau & Son -Can I tell ·vhat I found their books showed as to the sa],.e of
the hat 9
MR . KNIGHT :

I think it is immaterial, so far as we are con-

cerned.
A.

I found ; to my re collection ·, I found where L. Gari beau &

Son had sold to Florencia Garcia a Stetson Texas Cowbow hat,
as I recollect it, the price was $5 . 50 .

Immediately after-

.vards, Nhile I did not file complaint the day I came back, I
mean I did not take a complaint the day I came back, altpough
I am not positive, 0 1.At I took a complaint soon thereafter from

the father of the boys

of the boy, rather, against Messrs .

Sadler, Sittre and Locke .

Q Who are
A Rangers of Captain Stephens ' company .
Q I will ask you whether or not you had communicated with

Cantain Stephens inquiring ahout this boy?
A

I had .

o

Did you ,g-et any information as to his v1hereahouts from

Captain Stephens?
A I .rnuld state this, I
before leaving Brownsville .

m--ote a letter to Captain Stephens
I tried to find all the letters,

but I did not find the first letter that I

recollect writing ,

and in three or four days, perhans a week later, I wrote him
a~ain,

stating ":hat I did not get an answer -- This is not to

be construed as a reflection that Captain Stephens did not
act. promptly, perhaps he was away is the reason he did not
answer my very first letter, but immediately, I think, perhaos
the same day that the second letter ras mailed, the gentleman
called

~e U? fro~

Mercedes.

I did not

at that time, and he stated that he was

kno~

Captai~

Texas
5.;_. -. State Library and Archives Commission
( 543 )

Captain Stephens
Stephens, and

 as I recollect the conversat ion , he stated tha t his boys

turne~

this man loose , that they had arrested this man, is my recol lection, and turned him loose .

I

a1!1

not absolutely positi ve

as to the conver sat i on, bt.t that is the b.e.st of my recollectio~

Q,

Did you writ e t o Governo r Hobby with regard to th i s i nc i-

dent ?
A

I uid .

Q,

I

A- 1".

~vi ll

show you this letter, which I have marked "E.xhi b i t

I wil l ask you whether that i s the letter .

A

That is the letter .

Q,

I s that your signature?

A Yes, that is my signature .

I brought a copy along with me

Q,

Were those Saddler, Si ttre, and who was the other one?

A

Locke , as I recollect .

Q,

We r e they ever suspendeu , so far as you know?

A

I don ' t know ; they \Vere not s usp ena.e<l while they were down

there , they were removed, as I understood it, to the Marfa
country, the Big Bend country sometime af.terwards .

Q,

Did you have an examining trial about this cas e?

A

I did not.

We had the case set for an examini ng trial .

To be frank with you and to be frank 1.vith the Commi ttee, I
maneuvered to k9ep from having an examining trial .
Q,

Why?

A

The Mexican c onsul had requested a copy of the testimony .

He ·.vas reported to
pathy with Germany .

:i:1e

from different sol.4rces as being in symHe had in his office a man in his employ

~vho was of German descent, educated in Germany , and I Cl.id not

think it was to the best i nterests of the public fo r that testimony to be pv.t i n •vri t i ng to be spread by German propagandists probably i n 'Mexico, and ... maneuvered -- .Tudge W. R. Jones ,
ex- United ~ tates District

ttorn ey, rep re s ented t he defenda n t,

and exami nati on wa s waived.
Q,

He was i n partners .,.,i th Mr . George?

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 A

Yes, partners with Mr- ('!eorge

0

They represented the def endanta in the case.,

A

'!'hey represented the defendants i n the case

"

Were the defendants bound over?

A

Yes, bound over to await the action Of t h e Grand Jury.

Q,

Do you remember t h e i ncident of t h e train wreck near

Brownsville"

•

A

- do .

o

October 19, 1915.,

A

I don't

reme~b er

the day of the month, but it was in

October 1915
O

Do you remember the day after the accident -- Were you on

the scene of action?
was·

"

I

Q

Did you see some persons arrested there in charge of t h e

Rangers"
A

I never

sa~ ~.ny

arrests made

I saw, to the best of my

recollection, two Mexicans, perhaps only one, but I am quite
sure two, in charge of -- The poor man is dead now -- Captain
Ransom and other

~angers

.. don't recollect -- I said "other

""angers " -- they presumably •vere other Range"rs, they had the
dress
MR ·
A

I would say they were Rangers, t h ey were officers.
T<1irl~RT~

year was that?

1915

MR· r. '-lil'"T~- ;
A

Wha~

0

Do you know wh at became of those

"exicana~

I kno\V nothing of my o'vn knowledge except the general

report
o

What was the general re port?

A That they were kill ed -- Well,

1

don't say that those

particular Mexicans were killed, but t h at there were "'exicans
killed by the Rangers there O How many?
A My recollection is that there were

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

fo~r

reported killed.

 Did you take an active part in prosecuti ng those -- or one

Q.

of those men , that had perpetrated that outrage --

o~

wrecking

:the train?
A

T

d id, like everybody else I stirrea around the country

to see what could be aone , what
Were you County

0

No,

i

~ttorney

T

could do .

at that

time~

was in company with the then County

~t torney,

Mr.

Kent, and we had a Mexican constable in the auto with us.
Q

Were there any bandits arrested during that time?

A There was a Mexican arrested by the constable in my presence -- the fact,

T,

in~ company

with the county Attorney , ad-

vised his arrest.
Q.

Weren't there other Mexicans that •vere connected \'li th

that train wreck arrested, and if so by whom?
~

There were two at least, as I understand, arrested by

Pedro Lirma and Tijerina.
~

What relation, if any, do you know exists between this

man and myself?
A Mr . Tijerina, I think, is your cousin through blood, and
Mr. T.irma through ma rriage .
~

Are you acquainted with the Mexican scouts?

A

I am , in a general way, by hearsay and · general knowledge.

Q Not only by hearsay -A

I know that you closed your office --

Q Who

establishe~ those Mexican scouts?

A To the best of my knowledge, you were active in it, perhaps you d i d it yourself.

You acted in connection with General

Elockson, as I recollect it •

Mr. Canales and myself, we were

law partners at that time, and Mr. Canal es virtually closed his
law office, as I recollect it, two or three weeks, at least
a week, and got in his Ford and rode all up and down the River
helping organize that scout movement

I will say further, he

did it at the risk of his own life, and perhaps risked capture

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 and torture .
MR . KNIGET :
A

I didn ' t catch that .

What v1as that "

That he risked his ovm life and perhaps risked capture

and tort1J.re .

Q From who?
A

Bandits.

Q.

For what ?

A

In

o~ganizing

the River Scouts.

You mean capture and torture by the Rangers

l1!R . TIDWELL:

or by the bandits"
A

No, no -- not the Ran g:3rs at all - - frorri the Scouts - -

Q

Did you know what effect that r.ad in stop iing the bandits?

A

I can only give my

MR . IOTIGPT :

hased

Do you know that?

MR . CANAJ,ES :
A

o~injon

After we organized did the bandits cease"

Yes, a.nd General Nafarrata. tad stopped about the scune time,

as I recolJ ect .
Q,

no yoi.l remember who Nas Xk1m in the Commission t:bat asked

for hjs removal?
A

J!r. Creager and Mr . Canales -- I don ' t know, I rather

believe Mayor Bro;m and two or t:bree more citizens .
·was not .

I

I know I

was not present , only I just know, I know of your

P.Oing over there .
Q

Do you renen1he r ah out the German propaganda in 1917, in

June, just prior to the first registration"
A

I do .

Q

With regard to certain priests there?

A

I do .

Q

I want you to relate to the Committee .'/hat activity I

toe 1( , if cat all, in suppressing that .
A

You reported an incident; I know of the priestx going in

your office, I rememh er seeing him .
Q

0o you remember his name ?

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 A

I do not .

He had. a German name all right .

Q Was it Herrnan.1?
A

He \Vas a German frou Alsac e , in other ·1or cis , tl-10.t h ad

settled ill Alsace after the ·.var in 18'7 0 -MR. KNIGHT :
stan~,

A

l s thut connectea. with t h e Rangq rs ?

I unuer -

the i nc i dent you ar e g oirie; to rel a. te novf?

I don ' t know that it i s .

MR. CANALES:

This issue

w~s

brought i n there with regard to

Colone l Bil:ockson , that I did not taKe t.i.ny part whatever in
i

iving information ana. sup pre:;;;sing propagan<la , anu yot.. aumi t

that Colonel Bl ockson aa..litted. he w·as not there i n 191 ? a nd I
as~ea.

about that i ncia.ent i n 191? .

MR. McMILLlN :
JAR. CANALES :
SENATOR PAGE :

Bl oc kson?
Colonel Slocurrl.
I re •1ember sor:iething was

~aia.,

he

\VC:J.S

not

active in refu ting German propaganda -- I suppose h e has a
right t c• refute that .
MR. CANALES : · Wasn ' t that Ger..1an pr iest nar.led Hermann?

A Fathe r Hermann was his name .
Q

How many of those fellows ·vere "TOrking there ?

A

I u.on ' t re...e~1ber tho:) i r nw.• e.:> , t h ere

•Vu.1::>

mora than one

German pries t .
SENATOR PAGE :

I ·voulcl as< that the witness confine himself

as b riefly as possible ab uv't the

.atter, ·,·1i tho~t go i ng i nto

every little a.etail.
A

Mr . Canales reported the ioc ia.e n t to 1e , ana. he i mmed iate-

ly re 11orte<1 it to General Blocks on .
MR. CANALES:

A

General Morton?

General Morton is the man .

I r eporteu i t t o J uu.ge Wells,

and •vhat is "!.Ore , to Mrs . Wells, becaus,e she is a very uevout
lady and. a Catholic, ar1u the most bitter Anti- German I ever ,...et
Q

You ,.+on 't know the effect of it?

A

I never saw that prie""t frO'.l that u.c..,, to this -- I d.on • t

Texas State Library and Archives Commission
5. ·f)

I

 know "That became vf hiT:l•
~·

A

KN l crn:·r :

He uia. not " evaporate " , eiia. he ?

No , he UiQ not evaporate .

I felt like he ou.ght to

eva~ ­

orate .

MR. KN I GHT:

That is all .

The Rangerti had noth i ng to do wi th

that " evaporation"'1
A

No , they d i d not .

Q,

Who wa.s a c t i ve ii1 purs'l.A.i t of h i m?

A

I don ' t

kno~

what happened after Mr . Canales reported --

He fir::>t told .rre -- We had auj oining off ices, 1,ve were partners
at that time .
Q,

You a!1J. :Mr . Canales- \Vere partners i'or a. long time?

A

'le :.vere partners for a little more tha1_ thre e years , until

J une of last year .
Q,

Which \Vay was that prie::>t going the last t i me you saw hir!l?

A

He wa:; goi:ig oi....t of the uoor

01'

ov.r 01fice -- out of t!1e

door of my off ice .

Was any search made for his clothes?

Q,

A No ; Mr . Brown , a witne;:)ti from Brownsvi lle , can tell you
wi'1a t happened .
~

Q'

We will get to hi

A

Oh , he didn ' t " evaporate " , of cour::;e .

Q.

Now, Hr . Dancy , he got across the 1 i ne or dOI!lething , I

a little later .

guess - - that i s the way -::ost of the·.1 " evaporated" , i sn ' t i t ?
A

I really don ' t know .

Mr . BrO\'ffi can tell you i n cietail --

Mr . Albert Br own .

Q.

Now you sa i d at the instance

or

certain part i es aown there

certa i n Me xican Sc outs were appointed?

A Yes, sir .
Q.

They 'Vere Mex icans , 1veren ' t they?

A Yes .
Q.

They 1vere appoir.teu. by the .F eaeral Gover&1ent?

I think so .
Texas StateA Library
and Archives Commission

.

{

 Q They have recently been a.ischarged? .
A

I u.on ' t kno;v .

Q In the last three or four days?
A

I uon ' t .6:no•v.

Q When were they appointed?
A

In 1915 .

Q

I ·vill aaK you to state if they ever, is it there of rec -

ord or in tradit i on there that t h ey ever tangled up with a bad
man during the whole time they \Vere scouting up ana. down that
•
River?

A

I o.on ' t know .

Q Or ever arrested one or located one?
A

I u.on ' t Know.

Q

If th9y had: you ;voulu likelJ know· .::>oinething of it

\VOUldn I t you?
A

Why, yes , as a matter of kno 1.vledge I c,voulu liKe to J:{no•v it

Q

The Rangers were finding t h em ana. colliding \Vi th them q l l

the time ?
A

I don ' t Know of my

o ~R"n

knowledge .

I was not an official

at those times .

Q Do you know· -.vu o selected those Mexican Scouts ?
A

I think Mr . Canales ·vas V9ry instrumental in selecting

ther1.

Q Do you Know the men?
A

I know so;19 of t h e ..•

Q,

Ho•v

A

I a.on ' t Know.

Q

Na~ e

A

To

.any wera there?

l

the ones y ou know .

t~e

best ·of my recollection, Anastacio Cavazas was one ;

I don ' t know that I can name any others .

I believe Mr .

~

~rra •:ms one and Antonio Longaria, as I recollect it, was
~tationed

at Santa Maria .

Q Your idea is that Mr . Canales ana. oth er citizens there who

Texas State
Library and
Archives
partici..rateu
exposed
theuCommission
selves to tortl.Are?
r: - •)
).~

 A

l think so , I th i nk those banuits were capable of anyth i ng

Q

But I unuers tooc.i

JOU

to saJ that t.i'lere is no record or

rwnor down there that they ever uisturbed t n e bandits or interf'ered with them'l
A

I don ' t know about that,

I simply uon ' t know.

stood. it, they ''lere establisheu to

co - operate ~. •vith

As I unuerthe mi litary

author i ties .

Q You say that when you 1'ound the Cowboy Ste t son h a t and a
tuft of blaok ha i r and the blous.e ·--· a mere ske l eton -- tha t
there was an inques t held and certain of the Ranger boys we r e
arrested?

A Yes , sir .

Q And bound over to the Grana J "'ry?
Yes .

A

Q Diu the Grand Jt..ry convene ?
I t uid .

A

Q Diu they i nd i ct them?
A

'.Rhey d i d not .

Q Has there peen a Grand J ury organized down there s i nce the
last elect i on tha t has acted on those cases ~
A

There has been a Grand J ury s?i:nce then , well i t was organ-

i zed, yes , or ganiz ed on the 20th of J anuary .

Q

An~

{

that same p r osecution was revived before that Granu

J \il'y , \Vasn 1 t it?
A

I have heard so , but Capta i n Vann can tell you nore about

that .
A

There was nothing said to

l!le

about it .

And they have decl i ned to find a bill -- i s that your

information?
A My informat ion is there was no bill pending at a ll against
those parties.

.

I havs hear d that since I have been up he r e ;

the Grand J t..ry was i n session ·vhen I left Brownsvi lle .

Q

I

a1 very au.ch oblig~d to you, Mr . Dancy .

Jffi. TIDWEJ..L :

Did that old man go with you out there to look

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 at the remains of that party?
A

H~

uid .

Q,

Did he i dentify the boy?

A

He uid. .

MR. KNIGHT :
A

I i.1ean he id:e.ntified the rer.1u.inti as that of the boy .

MR . TIDWELL:
A

The boy?

And iclen tif ied the ::shoes?

ldanti fied the shoes and especially ident i fied a little

handkerchief with a monogram on it, but I don ' t recollect as
having 1:1entioned the handkerchief before we 'fient there .
Did the Grand J v.ry that 1'ir.Jt ... assed on that case, was it

Q,

composea. of Americans or Mexicans?
A

All our Grand Jt..ries are almost solia.ly Americans, ... ostly

ne~'!co m ers .

Q,

Th e last Grana. Jv.ry?

A

The last Grand Jury, t h ere ·.vas only one l\1exican on it anu.

only two oldt i mers, as I recollect .

It was composed of what

we call the ne;vcomers, like r.yself ; I have been there only ten
years .

Q,

Do you know whether that Grand J ury h as plainly refused

to indict those men ·vhen they 111ere killea., or did not indict
them because there '"1as not svff icient evidence?
A

I uon ' t know.

Q,

Does the County Attorney wvrk with the Grand Jv.ry?

A Not especially .

We have a s~ecial District Court .

The

first week the Grand J ury works ana the District Attorney can
devote his entire t i me to the Grand Jury usually .

Sometimes

I \VOrk ; I am a l ways at its be Cl{ anu call, ana. they call me v.p
t~ere frequently, and I was in the room on tnis matte r.

Of

course i t woula. be impDoper· to testify if I knew , but I don ' t
know the testimony that went before the Grand Jury.
Q,

Do you !!lean to say now· that the Grand Jur y corruptly

refused to i naict those Rangers?

Texas State Library and Archives Commission
al

 A

I do not .

that

1 trust that I said nothing that would leave

infere~ce.

I have not intended to say a nyth ing that would

leave that inference at all .
SENATOR WILLI.EORD:

What kind of hat uio. you say tha boy was

weari ng?
A A Texas Cowboy Stetson hat, light color .

Q Did you have the
A

numbe r~

l don ' t recollect the number .

Q Did your investigation d i sclose the house where he bought
it?
A

lt u i d .

The nrui.e of the hov.se ·.v as in the house -- L. ·

Garibeau & Son was the hou.se i ns iue of the hat, ano. ·as qui~ as
I got back to Brownsville I -.ve11t baci<: to thib house anci. ..:".ade
th i~

investiga ti on.

SENATOR PAGE:

There is no uoubt bv.t

~.vha t

those •vere the re -

niains of the boy?
A Ab sol ute l y none i n my mi nd as to the remains .
SENATOR PAaE :
MR . KN IGHT:

I don ' t th i nk so .
The bones of th i s skeleton were pretty bauly

ocattered around over the prairie, weren ' t they?
A

To smne extent .

Q

T'ney ,.,ere perfectly ury and white , were11 ' t t hey?

A

I believe they were ; they were scattered .

I wi l l say thi s;

I uo:1 1 t bel ieve a ny of them were scattered out any fa rthe r
I don ' t bel ieve any of tneD were as far as to the corners of
th is ro om from the P...Lain ;1lace .

Q When was that d. i::;covery nade?
A May 21st , as I recoll ect .

Q

~1en

A

Ri ght close to the 5th of April .

Q

Sixty days had. i n tervened bet'veen the time of his " evap-

d i d Florencia Garcia d i sappear?

orat ion " and. the d iscovery of those ::fni te, bleached bones?
A Abot..t forty - six days , I believe, to be exact .

Texas State Library and Archives Commission
Q

Wha t y ear was it?

I

\

 A

1918 .

MR. KNIGHT :

Did you examine the recora.s of that store to

~sci:-rtain •Vhether Or not au ring the twel Ve months before that,

or the twenty- four months before that, they haa sola. an offcolor cowboy Stetson hau besides thi$ one?
A

I c.i.id not .

Q,

What would be JOUr j t..ugm.ent as tu the ones they probably

o.id sell?
h~rd

A

I don ' t know, it would be

Q,

l s not that the conventional hat down in that country?

A

To a great ex tent it is among the ranche ros there.

Q,

I

~ill

ask you about

for me to tell .

that , jumpe~ ,

if that is not a con-

ventional jumper there?
A

It is .

Q,

I will ask you about those shoes, if t hey ·irere not the

conventional shoes "10rn?
A

I could not tell you , I don ' t recollect the kind of shoes

they were .

Q

I

A

I did, but the kind of shoes I don ' t recall .

thought' you men tioned shoes .

Q The bandanna handkerchief, do you recollect about it?
A

It was a white handkerchief with a monog ram on the corner,

1 don ' t

Q,

recall t h e non ogram.

No human being coulu identifJ the erstwhile possessor of

those bones and tufts of hair, coulu they?

A No, sir .
MR. TI DWELL :

Q

Do you Know of any conspiracy. or confederacy

or determinat i on on the part of the Range rs or any set of
people in and around Brownsvi lle to do Mr . Canal s harm or injury personally?
A

I do no.t·.

Q,

Have you ever heard any pe r..,on threaten vengeance on Mr .

Canales for anything?

Texas
,_ ... ,... State Library and Archives Commission
~). ) )

a

 A

I have not .

SENATOR NILLI.FORD:

Yo u say there was

so~e

paper stucK inside

of that hat?

A

I believe there were in the sweat- band .

Q Did you try to find where it

ca~e

from?

A No, I rather- believe it wa s wrayping paper .

I will tell

you frankly, because the Sheriff ' s office took the clothes and
hat and everything, l d i d not iden~ify them with the closeness
I

other,vise 1,vould; i f it was solileth ing that \Vas going to be

buried ·vith the remai ns, l 'l'lOuld perhaps have made notes of it,
but I d i d not .

Q His father i d entified h i m?
A Yes , and l am sure his brother was there .
were three Mexica n s .

I believe there

Sone 0f the other Mexicans - - witnesses

can t all you mo re spacif ically -- Mr . Barnes perhaps .
SENATOR WITT :

Was this boy last s"'en in charge of those

Range rs?
A My answer would be hearsay .

Q

'Nas

he supposed to be?

A Yes, that is lhe informat ion I have .

Q Members of the company that was i n charge of Captain
St ephens'?
A I n Capta in Stephens ' companJ, but not in charge of Captain
Stephens .

Captain Stephens, as. I una.ersta11d, was i n M.ercedas

a~ that tirne .

Those three -1en were below Brow-.asville, Captain

Stephens was not there at that time .

Q What was this l!lan charged with?
A

I have heard tha t pro anu con, l have heard him accused

of being one of t he biggest cow thieves in Mexico, and t h en l
have hearu of him as being an absolutely straight, square
:Mexican boy, above the average laborer or pe on .

Q How olu was he?
A

I don 't recollect ; it seems so .1ething like twenty -- he was

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 in his twenties, I

a~

.met quite sure he was not thirty, perhaps

twenty- eight -- would not undertake t o be p ositive about that.
MR. LACKEY:

Do you Know .the Rangers down there pretty well

about Bro\vnsville?
A

Yes.

Q Do you

~n ow

of any specific act or conduct on the part of

any of those Rangers that ought to be brought before this Committee?
A

I know nothing except from hearsay .

I aon 't know from

anything I have seen myself .

Q

You

A

Oh, no, none whatever;

have not had any trouble with any yourself?
I get along all right with all of

them.

Q Do you think they are needed in your country?
A

I do , I think t h ey are needed on the border , I thin£. t i1a t

Rangers are needed on the boraer most all the time.

------------CAPTAIN W. T. VANN,
having previo usly been dul y sworn-, testified before the committ tf
as follows:

E~MIWD

Q Your na.ne is Captain

w.

BY .. ffi . CANAL~S .
T. Vann?

A Yes , sir.

Q You are Sheriff of Cameron County?
A Yes, sir.

Q How long have you been Sheriff of Cameron Coun t y ?
A A little over four years .
Q,

Where did you c ora e 1rom there ?

A

Leon County.

Q 'Nere you Sher iff of Leon County?
A Yes.

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 Q.

How many years?

A

Twelve years .

Q What do you know about .Fl orencia Ga r c i a whose dead body
was found on the road from Po i nt Isab61 t o San Benito?
MR. KN IGHT :

Gentlemen of the Commi ttee, I don ' t knO\V , of

course, what importance might be attached to this testimony ,
but this relates back, it is a re-tr i al of a case down on the
border that occurred some two years ago, upon the facts of w'hicl~
as I unders t and it , the -- How many Gr and J uries have you had
since then?
Two .

A

MR. KN IGHT:

-- Two Grand J uries have investigated it, anu

the; have failed to find a bill, and I really know of or uis cern what effect it could have on our ..iinds in this investigation.

I t looks like we ought to be content

it was passed on

by local authorities under the jurisdiction of the .Local court
and the highest peace officerd in the county , and a nw~ber of
wi tnesses have stated the de t ails, and we know what the facts
are, and we now understand and it looks to
unnecessary consuClption of time .
THE CHAIRMAlil' :
MR· IG.~ IGHT :

A

me

like it is an

I don ' t know·.

I think the evidence is admissible .
I grant you tha~, out it is cumulati ve .

There is very little I Know about it anyway .

go uown.

I sent a cou~le of ~eputies .

MR. CANALES :

Q

I

I a i d not

uid not see t~e body .

Have you .ia~e any effort to locate that man?

A Yes .
Q

.Fr om "/'h O!:l?

A

Capt~in

1

Stephens first .

Q Di<..1. Capta i n Stephens give you any informa tion wh ere he was?
A

He said his men arrested him but sai~ they tur ned him loose

and he went across the river he guessed.
Q W'ere you Sheriff of Came ron County in 1~15 ?
A

Yes .

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 Q It has appeared in the record here about the killing of
a certain man by the

na...~e

of Rodriguez at Pasa Real by a Range r

at t hat time named Andr es ·11ho \Vas w·ith Captai n Hanson ' s company ,
no'v Captain of the Rangers stationed at Austin .

Go ahead atld

state about that incident .

MR.

!<N IGHT:

I uidn ' t catch what i nc ident that was .

l.ffi.. CANALES :

The one yo"U broi...ght i n here stating abot.t the

Ranger .killing the Mexican out there nar:.ed Rodri guez in 1915 .
THE

CHAIRMAl~:

I t is one of t '1e i:1a.tters that has been re-

fer r eo. to r.ie .
A

There were three killed over the re at Pass Real one n i ght .

Q 'Nere you \Vi th them?

A Yes .
Rang~rs

Q

What

were over thsre ·vi th thern?

A

Captai n Rans om -- he ·.vas a S ergeant at that time .

An-ires

and J oe Taylor, I am not sure whether Taylor was a Ranger at
that ti'1e or \Vas in the Cu"3to 1s Service .

He haa. been a Range r.

There '!'las a p retty good c rowd , twenty ur thirty , and al so the
Adjt..tant General of the State at that tir1e. was \Vith us, General

Hutchin ~$.

Q Now relate that i nc i den t .
A

Wel l , I have forgotte11 •v:.at road it 1rms,

'f{'3

"f:ff9

1

out t '1e

uay before, bvt the P asa Real wa~ about the pass out going
north, if they d idn ' t go out across the River going north Pase
Real or Pass Hondre is the passed that \Ve "70i....1:1 u.l'Vays try to
make it to.

t

It is t:.venty- five .o.t thirty miles to Paso Real , or

may be a little !!lOre.

\Ve

:.vor.J.<:ed all day ana huu. information

that probably they woul-.1 croos at Pa.so Real, and
above at Real Hondre and went down the arroyo .

\Ve

pasc>e.:i.

It \Vas the raid

n,

\Vhere t'"'ley killed. Stephens at S ebastian , and ·ve ·vent to S ebastian a d -·rnnt fror.i there do>vn to Pas ~ Real, thit.King •.1a; be they
had
~

~ 3nt

that ··1ay .
I.

You mea h Austi n i ns tead of Stephens?

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

-

 A

Yes .

~

Augus t 3, 1915?

A

I have the date::> 01· those raills in my booK , I made a

randum of then .
I go t

it .

emo-

Austin was killed August 7 , 1915 , i s the 1fiay

I d r ov e my c a r right down next to the ferry -

boat where they w·o"4.ld corae ac r o.ss .

I

had the best l i gh t or

thought I d i d, and a.id have the best l i ght on my ca r, and I
thought by turn i ng the button I could throw the l i ght across
the arroyo and see for a hvndrad yards .

I

a.on ' t rem.e::1ber who

was in :ny car ·:ii th me, •vhethe r General Huthcins was or not .
I

sup :> ose there was 1' if teen or t•venty of us , several other

ra.1ier..; too .

When I drove down to the cross i ng, right down

to where the fe r ry- boat co'nes across , anu stationed my car
the r e so in the event we did not need it , to l ook ac r oss , J oe
Taylor and Cap t a i n Ransom , as I remember , and 1 bel i eve Marcus
'
Hines and Capta
i n Head all went up to the house of f of t he r oad ·

. t h irty or fo rty steps f r o~ the 9ass .

1 heard so~e loud t alking,

t hey ..ve r e squabbl i ng, they evidently went in the hov.se , they w~ e

were on the back p or ch a nd wh en I got a ro wid and r a n i nto th e
house

and they were squabbling, of course I could not under-

stand

1 'Understood a little bv.t not a great ci.eal

-- and ci.i -

rectly a gun fired , and whe11 it uia. ana. the smoke fell awaY. we
had two dead men ..there and one of the r.. en was shot and was not
k i l l ed ana. evi dently had crawled. into the hot..se

a.Du

they h~d

h i m under the bed until the next morning , anu the boys went
back there to find h i m -- That was the one , I th i nk , that Andres k D:l ed .

Of course I don ' t know who killed those two men ,

of course I know the posse there uid .
Q.

Were those two men arr.ted that were k i lled.?

A

No , the last man

•VC:i.S ,

tne naxt r.1orning , he s:1ot at Captain

Andres .
Q.

After he had been wounded?

Ye~ , he
been shot
in the leg
Texas State ALibrary
andha~
Archives
Commission

the night before .

I t waf

 da r k and we d i dn ' t kno•v this man got a way that was shot i n the

•

leg .

On~

of the men neve r u i d move - - laid there all night .

Q We r e those Mexicans killea. i n their own home?
A

Yes .

Q Did you have a search wa rran t to go in the r e?
A

No .

Q You say the nen we r e not ar....e1.1 at the time the sh ooting
oc curred?
A

No , i f they we re I nev er did see any arms .

Those two who

fell in t .1e back yard 'Vere not armed .

Q After that , the Range r s on sorie other oc ca si on during tha t
t i me , were you ·vith the:r.i , an..i if so relate it, ana. just go aheau. .
A

I was •vi th them several times , and we mad e s eve r al runs .

Thoy got qu i te a gooa. many - t h i ng happened .

~ve

a. i d .

I n fact , every time any-

We had a bunc h of r a i ds and bandi ts came across

the Ri ve r, most of them , there is no uoubt i n my mi nd ; the r e may
have

b~en

a fe w on this s i de helping, b1.tt most of them came a -

c r oss the Ri v er.

Q Do you re>nembe r the t i me four Mexi cans we re k ill ed the

day

af t e r tha t train wr eck?
A Yes .
Q

I n whos e p ossession were those foi... r .lii.ex i cans?

A

Th eJ we re i n captain Ransom ' s possess i on the las t t i me I

saw them.
Q

What was a.one wi t h the ..?

A

They carr ied them out i n the woou.o anu shot them• ')

Q

. s arrested by the Rangers ever t l.Arned
Wer e any of t he par t ie

over to you i n your j a il ?
A Yes , there has been a few turned over to me .
Q

At that t i me?

A

I can ' t r eca ll i t , at th~t t i me or not .
1 1.•iill

a~K yol..A ·'lJ1.ether or net yc'l-<r ue.._)u.ty - - those a r resteu

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 by your uept..ties and the soldier s , >vhether or not they ·; vere
bro1;ght to the ja i l

to stand trial?

There was one of .ny uJplAties at San Ben i to -- so"!'le of them

A

were h o t brought to jail to stand trial .
Q,

W'.tlo was that?

A

A Mr . Carr.

Q,

Relate that .

A

They hau a s c rap at Galvetiton Ranch anu the mi li tary au-

thori t i es arr es teci. f i ve rrnn .

They carried them to San Benito

.vhere they had a c avnp at that time, th·3m five r::. en, and they
locked them v.p in the calaboose, ana. Mr . Carr -- they locked
them up in the calaboose Gi.na. three ·1ere killed that night and
two left in the calaboosa .

Q They
A

Yes .

~ere

taken

o~t

of the calatoose?

I don ' t .know· wheth~r ti1e Rangers d i d i t or lt~r . Car r,

except from hearsa y .

Q Did. you know any of the Range r s under Cap tain Ransom that
are now on the f orce?

A I don ' t remember who was with him .

I remember And r es was

with h i m, s t at i oned down there , 1 uon ' t just recall who all were
·vi th Captain· Ransom \•then he 'Vas ..... o ..m there, there 'vere several ,
though .
.as been

I have not refreshed my ·1emory , anu j t.st off hanued , it
t,1 0

or t .. 1r'3e years aclo , I u.o,, ' t j t.st re:u1ember •'tho was

in his company , who all v1as :.vi th h i m, anu hav i ng just a 11i nlAte
ago thOlAiSht abot..t Andres being ... 1-:.ot maue me thi11k of h i u , or I
probably \VOuld not hav

0

thought of h i m.

was wi th ... Ranso+ru~a.t that t i me .

I don ' t

remember who · •.=.

He had a company of man stationed

there .
Q

Ho.,v hiany Mexi cans c....id. yov.. see dead d1..1r i 11g 1 915 a nd 1 916 ?

A

I don ' t know.

Q Can yo\A est i :ma. te it?
A

No ; I saw a good many .

I expect 1 saw fifteen or twenty .

I uiun ' t see so very nany .

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 Q,

Did you see any arounu San Benito?

A Yes, l saw one bet•.veen Bro·,vnsville anu San Benito and. those
four killed at the railroad wreck and those three that were carri!d out of San Benito, and then l was up in
go County
l

~11en

th~

edge of Hidal -

they had four or five killed up there that l saw.

don ' t know who killed them, and l don 't recall.
Q,

Do you remember who were the first ones that arrested the

first bandits who •vere brought. to trial and put i n jail?
A

I believe Ramon Pizana was the fir8t bandit we arrested anJ

put in jail

the first bandit I Jid .

Q,

He was tried?

A

Yes.

Q,

Given fifteen years?

A Yes .
Q,
A

l

appeal~d

the case anu the case was

rever~ed,

wasn ' t it?

Yes, sir.

Q, · After the train wreck who were the ones first arrested?
A Lorenzo Lopez and Lajala was arrested .
Q,

I asked you who arrested the banuits around there?

A

I

iliink your Sheriff Scarborough of Kingsville arrested

that Lopez boy and brought him uown there, and I think l arrested Lajala, l a.."!l not sure about that, and then I arrested
one or two that never wao killed, i'ot.ir of the, after the train
wreck -- l don ' t remember .

•

Q,

Do you remember Ranger Shaw?

A

Yes .

Q,

THat was k i lleu over there --

A

Yes.

Q,

Was he murdered?

A

1 dici.n' t see him shot, I

time.

•

I

WCl.S

not in the county at that

u. id not come in until the . . n~xt day about noon.

had been in East Texas, anu he was shot the night before .

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

I

 Q Do you remember Timberlake?
A

Yes, sir .

Q

Were you present at the time he \Vas killed?

A Yes, sir .

Q Re·1a t e that c ire w:is tanc e .
A

Timberlake and Captain Taylor and myself

MR . TIDWELL:
A

Was Timberlake a Ranger?

Yes, anu. a good one, too , r . think , Judge •••• Mr. Hamer

and Mr . Atkins , four or five or six of' us , went down -- someboa.y had given us some dope that they \Vere coming across the
River for some mescal that night .

'

When we g ot ready to leave

the jail I told the boys, t h ere is tw·o trails \Ve want to wa t.ch,
I had gone out the evening bef ore a nd p icKeu our places to
for t h em.

I says , supp ose somebody

we kill somebody, flay be a

s~ldier

co~es

loo~

along t _1.at trai:+ and

or somebouy, we discussed

it a fe\V mi nutes, Captain Taylor and I, and decided if anyboc.l.y
came along ;vi th baggage we would try to halt them, and

\Ve

made up our minds, because this party said he w~a going to kill
anyone that said a word to h i m, told us that every time we
talked to him -- we decided if they did
\Vould halt them .

n~t

have baggage we

He u.id come along , anu l expect passed within

six or eight feet of me and Timberlake .

I let h i m go thirty or

forty steps before I said. anything , h e u.i<in ' t have anything, I
coulu see, t h ere >vas a new moon a couple of hot.rs high, and he
was going i n to the light and not into the brush, a_~ei -..ve let him
pass on thirty or forty steps before l said anything , then I
raised up and holloa ed , I saw he uidn ' t have anyth i ng, and he
fired his pistol ,· and I think the f irst s h ot he shot k i lled
Timberlake , he died the next morning, and then we shot him , and
t h e other two got a1,vay.

He ,..Lie.in ' t have any me~cal w·i th h i m,

but he was a forerunner anu his clothed were all wet where he
ca.'le across t h e River .
.... £' .....
;) \). '

He lived in Matamoras and was Captain

of the bunch •

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 Q Did you kn o'v .Frank Mart i n?
A

Yes .

Q Did

JOU

Know anything abovt that investigati on after he

was k illed?
A

I 1.·1ent up the next claJ after he -.va.s killed .

·Ne got bills

a gainst a couple of parties that k i lled h i m, in fact we kno who
killed h i m, George 'Nells vias 'Vi th hir1 at the t i me he \Vas k illed .

Q Is h9 a Ranger?
A
ti~1e

I think :Mar tin was a Ranger ;

he \Va.s killed .

Wells wu.s Constable at the

They ' phoned ne tnei, t night , arid I ·7en t i...p

the next norn ing .
Q

They say he was assassinat3u .

I ·.vant you to ralate the .

c i rcumstances .
A
I

l u a 'flay, p robably, he ·.va.;;; asoassina ted ,. he was killed .

th i nk they

ha~ s~ e kin~

of a little

" blowo~t "

or

~exican

floto , whatever theJ call the.a , in the to'm of Raymondsville .
I

think Hr . Wells and .Frank Martin and I th i nk a Mexican had

a little· troi...ble, and 1 sent for

he went over there

W~lls

anCA. told the..1 t hey woulu have to cvt that trouble Ol.(t , anCl they

went on over home and the tw·o

-fJ,;.err o.. boys, that 1 i ved across

the railroad track, and Vells and

artin went up that way, theJ

\Vere not sa tisfied, I ...i.on ' t thin.l{,

\Vit'~

the re;:iatr1(, one of tl1em

saiu, they ·.,ent l..lp ~hat \Vay ancl when they got up on the railroau a.ump up bet·veen ·vrere

th~J 11.u.1.1

their little patch anu. this

Mexican 1 s house , and the:,' evic.teil tly got their gv.n::> a_1d ca.. e
back -- I uon' t .Ano>v where they got the±r guns -- anu k il led
.Frank ?A:a rtin ano. shot George Wells bt.t cdun ' t kill hir.t.
Q,

Have you :3een

A

Oh ; I cannot say thut 1 "1av·~ ::;0en any ol° tllem o.runk.

"30

e of the Rane;er.J drir.K i ng anu drun.r:.<:?
I

huve deen a Rar~er ta~e a ~rink occasionally , like 1 do , anu
with '1le, we take a drink one e i n a :-.rhile .
Q

Not sir ce this law· :w.ti gone i11to effect?

A

Yes, and before too .

Texas
State Library and Archives Commission
r cf~
t} \)

••

 ~

·rou a lso d rink sinc e tr~s l aw has gone i nto effect?

A Somet i mts , Rhen I can g et i t .
It l s alleged here that gambli ng i e open 111 Bro;:nsvi l le

Q.

and 11h~n your depa rtme nt wa s in and somebody else wa s out and
wanted to get i n -A

How is that?

Q,

I;, h<:Ls been i n evidenc e that gambling is op en i n Browns-

.ville , and thaL your department' has bee n i n a nd t hat somebody

else wc..s out and wanted to get i n 1 I 'Nanted to f i nd out if

that was true or not .
I don ' t know , there has be e n some g amb li ng in Brownsville ,

A

and will b~ when I pass away , I guess ; they don' t run gamb l ing

#idc open , though .
~

Have the Rangers steppe~ all that gamb ling~

A

I never heard o:f a Hangdr arresti ng anybody f o r gal!lbling

or having anythi ng to do VTith it.

I expe ct the Ci ty .Marshal

has more to ~o with it than anybody el se , and I he lp some with
1 t myself .
Q.

Hav e the Range r o stopped a ll -the dr inki n g the re '>

A

.Not that I knoVT

Q.

H<l.ve the Rangers stopped all r.hat. b ana.1 try the re?

of.

A I don ' t thi nk they had any more to do ~ith stoppi ng i t
than the rest of us .

They w~re there and helped u s on i t .

They stopped. some of 1.hem.

:EXAMINED BY MR . KNIGHT •
e~id

they asslsted you i n

~his?

Q,

You

A

YE;.s .

Q

\.iht:n you ~.~ed tr.em to go with you they di d ·not quit y ou

as long ~s you were l)Oing, d.id they?

t

No .

Q

Now as I un~erstano it , you took a poss e out -- I am not

Texas
State Library and Archives Commission
r:,'~ .,
t ,u~

familia.r wit;h the cond i t i ons -- and some parti es went in --

 A

Yes .

Q At the time

yo~ put

your car up there was about fifteen

in that party?
A

Yes, I expect fifteen or tv1er.t.1 .

Q General Hutchins was in the part.1, you were there, and some
of your deputies probably

aid you ueputize anybociy that night

Were the ·,&jority of the fifteen at yuur instance, or ·the Rang"rs ' ?
A

thin .• they were all officers .

I

I

think my cieput i es were

along.

I have had seven or eight, f'ive or six -- I don ' t

membe r

and probably there ;vere eight or ten Rangers .

re -

Q You were not there at t he time the two 1"'.len were killed?
A

I was not there at the time the shooting start d .
0

About

the t iT.e they ·vot.nd up I ran. arouncl to the front gate, and.
~hey

Q

were in the house.
So~e

co T1otion started and t·vo men 1vere killed. -- that

is all there
A

WdS

to it?

That was 'all .

Q A.,d the next morning the th i rd r1an who was WOl.lhded, he
resisteu. arrest
A

~nd.

.Lle was ::>hot?

Yes, I cio_1 ' t know· ;.vhether you ;voul\..L call it he resisted

arrest or not, he "'la;;j in the house , cra•vl ed. una.er the bed, a.1d
the wo .• enf ol.!!:s tooK boxe;;s a.nu everything else and stuff eci una.er
the bed. to hid.s hi :i, anu .,;>robably thought we \VOulu.
and

\Ve

!10t

kno•v it,

diun ' t know it until , to tell the truth , we thought we

had k i lled all there was .
Q

The participation of the Rangers there

'llCA.b

·.vi th your r'l..• 11

knowledge and consent ?
A

Yas, I cion ' t think it coulu. have been avoided .

It might

have been when they first raiseu. the fv.;;ss, if somebody hao. not
been too hot- headeu and firaci the fir;.)t o to t .

Q mverybouy was at a
A

t~nsion?

Yeo , I thi nk it :1ic,ht huve been helped before the first

Texas State Library and Archives Commission
l.

 shot was f i red , bl..tt after the first shot ·Nas fired it had to
be carried Ol..tt .
Q.

I unuerstanu at a.i0ther

dcp~tiao

A

tim~

three r..en arrasteu by your

were pvt !n your calaboose?

.Five men arrested in that bi...nch by the mil i tary avt11or i ties

and carried to San Ben i to .
we call it .

They were at the Sebasti an fight,

The ' dl i tary ha.u. char(.;E' of

t~1~i11

anu offe r ed. to

t~rn

1..her1 over to me, a.r1d I told them to carry them w-i th them to that
po::> t , I 1•1an tea. to ..1a.tce an inve.., t i gajr, i on , anu. they carried them
to San Eeni to ana. tu.rnea. th 311
put them in the calaboose .

OV'ff

to tne City .i.:1ar::>hal. , anu he

I uon ' t think I 1vent home that

night, I stayed. ot..t all night ,

1"l

unu. my littl3 bunch , anu ;ve

got in i1ome next ,1orning, a.uu Colonel Albert Haywood called me
up and. said , Captain th~ra is f ou.r or five men k illed. up here
last night , taken out of tha calaboo:::le .

I called up Carr a.ad

askea him if th.ere was anybo~J in tho calaboose , and he sa i e
no .

I said , wasn ' t there anybody in the calaboose las t n i gh t,

u.ncl he said no.

I

\Va::5

rather satisf i e<l unu went on .·

couple of hour s Col onel HaywooCl called

m3

In a

up CA.ga i n and said

there was a cov.ple of men k illed. up there last night , better
co~e unu look afte r i t , an~ I went up anu ~sked Carr ag~i n

if there were any men i n the calabOO.;;>e , anu he sai u , yes> t•vo .
I as.Kea. h i m if any ha.Cl been put in yestera.ay , a.no. he s a ia. 1es .
I sa i d ,. Did &rot< permit anybody to tu.ke those men ou.t .

He said.

he gt.iessed they d. i d , but he wasn ' t goi....g to stanu doi,vn there
and watch that damned. ol d calaboose a l l night .

I sai d , Mr.

Carr , I u.on ' t l ike thCl.t kinu. of b1..1si1 es;.:>, I want to tell you
we are under oath ana. we a r e under bond and under oa th t oo, and
a good one , that we •'li ll protcc t the 1 i ves of that man or men
u.rre::;ted , anu began to baw·l him out .

I saiu i f they shoi..ld

arrest ol a. An i n c eto P izana , the leauer of that bunch , and i f
the; ahoula. c o~e acro8s the River before they had a n

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 opportunity to surrender to me 1 I would try my beat to kill
him, but if anybody would catlh them and turn them over to me
I would do my beat to protect them bef'ore I would let them
get them, and he aaid • I don't feel that way about

it~

and I

eaid, you cannot work for me.

Q What became of the other two?
A They were finally turned loose.
Q,

You don't know wbat becamo of

them~

A No, except from hearsay.
Q. Mr. Canales asked you a number O'! questions abe>ut the

number o t Kex1 oana Yotl bad seen dead in the last

~ew

7eans,

and you said some fifteen or twenty.
A Yes, I think may be that many.

q How many white men have 7ou seen dead down the re during
that time, Captain'
A I have seen aeyeraJ..

I saw some soldiers, more eol.diers

than anybody else.
~

I mean oo1d1ers, your men and oit1sena.

A

I did not aee Shaw, he wae killed and those two men were

k111ed rooently s1noe the band1 t trouble.

At the train wreck

t he engineer wae killed, and I eaw two or three soldiers killed,
and Dr. K clrean was shot and died the next day I believe, and

Harry

allace waa shot but d1d not die, at the Galveeton Ranch.

T o or three men we.re shot , I don• t remember Just how many died:
a t the Sebaetian raid there were two men killed, at La Fergos
raSd there were two men killed, and at the l1or1as raid there
were two or three shot, I don't remember whether there was

anyone killed or net.
Q.

Caeear D.eburg' s f'oroman, what• e h1a name -- tba.t waa

aaaaeeinatea last spring -- Kartin'
A llartin.
Q,

You have namecl some f'1t'teen or twenty, all White men too,

Texas
State Library and Archives Commission
5 f} that were killed -- you think there wore

other soid1 era be•idee?.

 'o ~ I ·.ic·n' t

A

.re.m.e.•!~b ~ r

of any mo re.

Q.

'Herti is seine photography;x: dic'i you see that train wreok?

A

I .;aw it 1.he next morning.

G

I~ th~t

A

Ye3 , looks very ·mnoh like it.

A

1 1·.hin1; t~o or th.ree soldiers wt:ir~ killed and the engineer
kill~d

wa3

of

~ pho tcgrap~

nnd Dr. McRean

it~

«a~

killed.

l i ,,VP. they !H:1.ve be~n 0:1 sc~rged .rroIA t'ho force, had some of

~·;;

A

That v.ras

Q.

That. ·::~s th~ time they ma.de thu raid on Norias, how many .

MR . K~11':HT:

A

Nori as .

7!e of:fer the picture of the train wreck for

I n th~t ·n~s :ra:ilroaU. ~tl'ec;J:: tn.ey had lfo. 16 uire and t.oo.k

a pi.eco off o:f tl1e track uud. tiod ~1in~ in it, and when the
tru~n

~

went to run on ii; tr.ey pulle:i it out.

That

:\at)

t:ae :'~oz·.ias x.D raid ( refe..cring to photogra.:ph)?

k illoci on t~.a-C .rci.id?
A

I

·le,,
,__ t

\

l;

j.

latO.t.• t

I think two or thNt; shot, I don't know

whet1"!er ar·Y wcrt- lcilled

Ot'

not .

Q WerG tho~~ thn:e ~lJ. killed?
A

I 1ihink that is all that we re found;.

lik0 an Indian e:.bout mo vi r.g ·c;hem out.

Those Mexicans are

If you don • t find them

ri gl'it no : ·t:r1~y \\Ti 11 move t!1.e!Jl. out .
Q.

At the tin.e you~: deputy T :irn.bc rlake '.'la~ killed you were

advi uf;d that if you se..5 d anyth ing to that man somebody . would
be l. i llccl."'

A Ye f: , and l ..,ou.15. nnt hc.ve uaid anything to him if he had

Texas
Library
and Archives
r:···i State
haci that
1acka.ge
cf l1ie scal Commission
on his shoulder •
•)

(

61

/

 Q,

·ucn; i.dviac;d Gxactly a:3 it transpired?

Yot~

A Yta.
~i.o

':l:i.mbe.rlt:.ko ca.z

l\

Yt!k$ , I

Q.

Cu;Iit«ain, you 1u.-ve l'E.:en evidently very proficient as well

h~dn'

~

gcoa. off icE:!r'!

t known him very long.

as diligen-c in running down thoee bandit e down there in your
~vill

county, a.1Tested a. numbc:t of tnem, I

ask ,yot.L to advise the

CoUlDlittee oi' the number·you have· succeeded in getting to <-.ibt:i.uclon
,\

M:ight.y f6·w.

l~o

It. il> mighty hu.td

stantial 6Vidence.

thcr~,

I huag tso

convict -- .it is circumsentenced~

and we

thi u man to the penitentiary, but he beat the oase.

it and. t.ht:y :l'inally turlldd him loose

He c.ppealed

he Wdnt aero as.

~nd

It

is aiighty htu·d. t c d.o, but I believe in doing these kind of

r

things.

i

You hwig

Ii

one beat h is ca.6c, a.nd you wert: successfu.l,

t; ..10,

thv llgh, in iuc""rcera.t ing qui 't.e a nulllbe .r oi'
Thi a

A

we nent

::n.usp~ c't,

ut:rt.

tt..lkiag about th.:! train wrt:tck, I

r~men~ber

ihor.::: --

State if it. i

Q

theni~

~

not a hs:.bi t

'iTl th

.awn that you :run down,

backt;

A A good many of

th~ru

go back und they are etrong on proving

alibi&:> too .

have

Q.

You :.tkb.dt/a. grea.v numbet· 1Jf slackers and deserters and

oth~r

criminals who have gon$

ac~oss

the River?

A Yes, we .have gc1.. a good many slackers.
Q.

If your v igila.noe or t111:.. vigHianoe

ho\1 embod:l ec. , should

ar~

A

weC:.t.lth;,v

Yee,

po~pl.;;

So.file

L~

crippled,

o i~ };.ave.

'.)f

~10\.t1dr... • t

w~althy

the law, no matter
i

·i;

be an invi ta·tion

:fri 0nds on this side?

cf them .

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 Q They would pay !" great deal to get back, wouldn't they"
A I expect -- I don't know.

Q Anyone who would assist them to get back or detend them
after they come back?

A I don't know, if they would give them enough.
Q.

In Cazneron County you had six or seven or eight hundred

registrant•"
A I don't remember.

That 18 along the eam.e line.

THB CHAIRllAlT:

I wanted to show the number of deserters.

UR. DI GHT :
•R. CANALBS:

If they are going to inject that --

THE CHAimulJ:

Tbat hae already been ruled upon.

Otherwise I would want it stricken from the

MR. CANALES:

record.
I just wanted to ehow the conditions.

R. tmIGHT:

I don• t think the re 1 a any doubt on earth 1n

TP.E OHAtHU.N:

t he minds o~ the Committee about the conditions on the Border
'

and the 4111genoe ot the local· peace ott1oera and the Rangere.
YR . !NIGHT:

All right• it you are aatiatied.

All right, I

have done m;y be et •

Q

You eay tour men were carried out and ehot atter that

railroad wreck'

A Yes, sir.
Q.

Who were they"?

A Oh, God, I don't know their nam.ee.
p rbbably have a liet

Of course. I would

ot them. I don•t remomber whether I

kept

that or not.
Q Who took them out and shot them'

A Captain Baneom and I don't know the balance of the Ra.rgers

who were there that morning, but Banaom had charge of them.

Texas
Library
Commission
5 i' :~ State
~ How
ma.DJ'and
wereArchives
-in the party?

 A Three or tour, •nd one of my deputies went with h1m.
Q

Do you think a man who would h•e prisoners in hie charge,

a State Ranger, and to take them out and execute them that

way

should be retained on the torc.e'
A Absolutely no, I don•t care Who he ia, not only a Ranger

or a local peace otticer.
Q Did you keep your deputy9

A Yes, tor a while, but he is not with me any more.
Q Have you any way of ascertaining who the other three or

four Rangers were who were with Captain Ransom'
A I think I coul.d find out.
up between Ransom and I.

I know a 11 ttle squabble came

When they appointed Captain Ransom

Captain of Rangers, Ferguson was Governor, and I came to Austin
to see him.

saw in the paper they were going to send him to

I

the Border, and I came to see Goyernor Ferguson and asked him
not to do it.

He aaid, "Ransom will make you a good man if you

will warm up to him.•

•r

I says,

don't like his style, I have

heard a good deal about Captain Ransom, I don't want him down

there,• and he insisted that he woul.d go; old man Woodul I
think was with me , he said, "You haTe got it in for Ransom

becauee he killed old Brockman over there in Houaton• -Q.

Unless there 18 some special reason for you giving that --

A All right, but he finally sent him down there, and the
morning we came out there and arrested those four men, Captain
Ransom had them and walked over to me and aaya, I am going out
to kill these

t~ll~wa,

I don• t belieTe

guts enough to

are you going with

you, are going •

.
dq it,

me~

I saya no , and

He says, 1 f you haven• t got

I •111 go myself.

I eaya, that takes

a whole lot of gµts, four tellowa with their hands tied behind
'

'

them, it takes a whole 1ot of gute to do that, and I went up
the road four

o~ ~1ve
•

~

miles.

They took those soldiers otf ot

I

the cars and their shoes were tound and the place where they

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

(

 took their ehoee off and sold tmm.

I arrested those two and

they told me where they bought the shoes, and I thought that
was pretty good evidence, and coUld hang them probab1y.

They

told me they bought this pair of shoes from a couple of Kexicans who lived in town, in Brownsville, and I t-0ld one of my
deputies and two of the Military to hold them here until I
coUld go out, and I got in my car and went to BroWl'lflille five

or six miles and I went to the house and I asked those parties,
and the old man, he said he bought them f'rom his brother --

brother ot the man I had arrested.
everybody was a:f'ter the

railro~d

He was soared to death,

wreck, and he swore he didn't

I carried him over and put him in jail, and

sell them to him I

I oarr1 ed those two and put them in j a.11 •

His brother kind ot

had a squabble, his brother said Jlr. Handley let you haTe
those shoes, you know damn well you sold them to him.

~

got

Handley and he identified the shoes as being the soldier•s
sh<>es.

When I went back Ransom had killed his men, and I tol<l

my deputy, you take these men and put them in the car and
He says, Ransom says he 1 s going to kill

carry them to to"Vn.
them too.

I says, no they are my two •. he hasn't enough Rangers

here to kill 1QY' two . at all, and we carried them and put them

in jail and they proTed to be innocent.
Q. . Yas Andres with them at that time.,
'

A He was stat toned the re, but I would not swear that
'

b~

was

I

with them that day.

A

What is your· re~oi:iect1on?
'
.
I woUld hate t~; ~a.Y, but I rather think he was.

Q.

Can you_
p~ssil>1Y
· give us the name ot' another man who was
.
·.

Q.

along at that time? ,

.

I c oUld or
A I don t t know· whether
.
(

I

Q I belieTe you
names for us?

not •

•

·~~
I

you would undertake to ascertain the

<

Texas
State
Library
A Yes,
air. and Archives Commission
r: .....,
~

t) { }
'\

I

;

'

 Q Do you know whether either of these men are on the force

A Of course I know Ransom 1• not; he is

dea~.

I don't know

whether the other men are or not.
Q JUdge ltnight showed you thie Ranger picture where they had

a bunch of dead Mexicans roped; did you recognize the men in

the picture'
A

Two

Q.

Who->

ot them.

A Captain Fox and Tom Tate.
Q

Is Tom Tate st ill down in that country'?

A Yee, sir.
Q.

Is he here as a witness'?

A I have not seen him.
Q Is Tate on the force

now~

A I always thought Tom was a special Ranger.
Q.

Is he still acting as --

A I don't know; t saw him come to town the other day with
a six-shooter, dressed in Ranger style with a six-shooter and
cartridge belt on, I guess he 1a.

Q Was he wearing one of those double-decked belts'?
A Yes, sir.
Q. Would you bave permitted him to go in that garb if you

had not thought he was an officer?
A No , but th ere are so many of them. down there you cannot
tell whether he is an officer or not.
\

mi~dle

Q

Who is the

A

I don't know! :

Q

Ca~

man 1n this picture?

:.
you look at the big picture and tell (enlarged photo-

graph exhibited) •. Look at that and see i t you can tell who the
I , , .

middle man ia.

A No, I oan•t remember; it must have been one of Fox's men.
r.
Texas
,) I }State Library and Archives Commission
.~.,.

 Fox was just down there a few days, he was not stationed there

long.
How tar did this bunch of Rangers take those four men trom

Q.

you to kill

them~

I did not go out until after they were buried; I expect

A

it was three-quarters ot a mi le from the road to where they killed them, may be a mile -- 1t wasn•t very far.

EXAllINED 13Y MR. TIDULL.

Q I wanted to ask which of those men were Rangers and cowboys'?
A Tom Tate I always supposed was a Ranger, he alwaya passed

as a Ranger, and I suppose he was, and Captain Fox was Captain
of the Rangere •

Q You were on the streets of

~rownsville

a great

deal~

A Yes, sir.
Q

Can you recall any 1nstance in the last several months

in which any Ranger down there baa been intolerant or disebeyed
the lawe of the State

o~

has

exerc1s~d

his power as a Ranger

about and towards 'law-abiding citiaene in an arbitrary way?
A Bot right in town l haven't.
Q,

Do you know of 1 t in the country?

A Yes, I think I do.

phena and I kind . of

~eil

That 1 s one thing that Captain Ste-

out about.

---

It was norrated around

in that part of the country by a good many of my friends and
'
political enemies'··' ma;r
be you would C6\ll them, that I cannot

get along with the Rangers.
I

Along last spring hardly a year

ago Captain Stephens was stationed at Har11ngen at that time

and I think under, the influence of a
to him; I think

he was .stationed

men were stationed at Harlingen.

~ew

people that

dic~ated

at Keroedee but some of his

They went to Lyford and dis-

armed a lot of lla;lcans and took their' guns away trom them

Texas
,) (' State Library and Archives Commission
r: ,.........,

 and went in their houses at night and scared the womenfolks .
to death, and they wired me to come up.

I went the next morn-

1 ng and the Rangers bad left and gone to Harlingen, and Harry

Wallace posed as a deputy Ranger, I don't think he ever

~e.

I bawled him out about i t a.nd said, · Harry unless they have
something against these people I don't think they have a right
to come up here and take the stuff away from them, disarm them.
He said they bad the stuff.

I .wrote Stephens a letter.

I think

Kr. Sorrenson in a few days wrote me a letter that they wanted
their guns back, and I wrote Stephens another letter and I

wrote two or three letters before he answered, and When he did
he wrote me a letter that was very ungentlemanly I think.

They went below Harlingen and disarmed them.

Pedro Lirmes, I

think he is a .good citizen, I never knew him to do _anything
wrong in my 1ife, I think he is a good citizen as we have for
a Mexican. · t wanted to know of the Captain and hie men too
why they disarmed him, but they never would tell· me anything

about that, just kept his stuff.

q Is Captain Stephens on the toroe now?
A Furthe rm.ore, I would like to read a little correspondence
between the Captain and I, to show my position in the ma.tter.

Q Do you Jcnow where he is located no•'
A No , I don' t ·.

KR. CANALES:

You· have seen him here , haven't you?

A "1es, sir.
Q,

Why didn't

'you tell him that? :

A I have seen him, , he refused to sp~ak to me a few days
ago; I don•t know whether he is a

Range~

or not, and care less.

How many deputy sheri:tts have .you.· in to·wn'
A. I haven• t got very many now; tlie ,: tegialature passed a law

"

\

' '· ~we put them on $45 .oo a
that we could not have so many unless
I.

month, and I ha.ve.n•t so many.

l'

i

Texas
State Library and Archives Commission
r:::·-.u
,)

'')

 ~

I would like to ask you whether, in your judgment, it

would lend to the efficiency or the Ranger service if they
should be placed. under

bond~

A Absolutely, the captain a~ay, they have no right to b~

without bond, no more than I have.

act my deputy does.

I am responBible for every

If they oannot hire a man to obey the

laws and d,o right and do the right thing, they should pay enough
to get men who can do it, at least the Captain should be.

A

man told me at San Benito, he said if you do that you hamper

the force, because they could not arrest

~en

on suspicion.

They have no more right to arrest a man on suspicion than I
have.

If they go and arrest a man on suspicion and put him in

my jail, DlY bond begins to operate the minute he goe$ in ms
\

jail, I am responsible, as much so
~

no

you believe that these Rangere are necessary at this

time to peace and good order of the town of Brownsville?

A Yes, but

~ot

to the town of Brown&ville, to the county.

Some men on the Rangers are good men, I think they ought to get
better men and better pay.
~

It is the .desire of the Committee, as I see it, to tell us

who they are.
A Really that would be pretty ha.rd to do.
any trouble with any

down there.

I haventt had

ot the recent Rangers tha.t we have had

Old Captain Wright seems to be a prince.

Old

Captain Taylor down there is a tine man and seems to have a
bunch of good boy,:J.

I have not had an.v troubl.e with anybody

down there except Captain Stephens lately, and he ha.s moved
out from down the re • · . ·
'

Q How long has' he been gone from down .there?

A Four or five monthsr I presume, I don•t know how iong.
~

Do you believe to increase the salary of those Rangers

would attract a better class of- men to the

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

service~

 A I think so, and it may be possible you have s-0me pretty

good boys on there, or pretty good men, may be they don' t exactly understand the law, or j'ust don't think, I don't know

about that.

or course

if ~ou pay better salaries you w111 get

better men, I think.

no

~

you believe that the Banger service within the last

twelve months, 1918, has been more efficient and a better class
of men than it was in

191 5~

A Some of the better class are still Rangers.

The re have

been eome new men appointed who are mlghty good me-n.
Captain Wright is a good man.

I think

I don't know all of his men.

Captain Taylor was stationed in my town a good while.

I think

he was a good man.

Q Have the Rangers been willing to lend you their assistance and co-operate with you in the enforcement of the laws in
your town.,

A They nave , since Ur. Stephens left there, but Mr. Stephens
refused to do it.
SENATOR PAGE:

Q

Who •as the last Ranger, Captain, you spoke

of and said he was a good

man~

A

Captain Wright~

Q.

I thought you said "Sande r s•4? .

A Captain Yrdght.

He is down there now.

Sanders is stationed up about Alic e, I

think.
Q I want to ask you about an incident that was testified to
here by someone yesterday or the day before, ·by Yr. Creager,

a client of his that was killod by Captain Sanders e.rtd two
Rangers.
A That was before my time.

HR. Kll!GHT:

Do you kno\:v Captain Hansom?

A Yes, sir • .
~

The head of the P.angers?

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 A Yes.
~

What is your impression of his efficiency and service?

A The captain bas always treated me nice, and every time I
have had any trouble it looked like he tried to treat me nice.

I don't know whether he reported it correctly to the Adjutant
General or not.

not.

Since I have been here I have been told he did

If he did not, he has double-crossed me. Captain Hansom ,

so far as I know, is all right. ·
~

This man Tate, you don't knon whether he was a special

Ranger or not? Have 7ou ever reported hia claims to the present
Adjutant General or to' the present Governor"
A No, sir.
Q

There

ha.a

been no complaint made?

A The re has been no complaint made.

I heard the other

night the report that him and another Ranger belonging to
Captajn Taylor's comp$1Y both got drunk.
gation.

There was an investi-

I believe Captain Ha.mer· invest iga.ted it.

O ! quite agree with you in the idea of better

pay

and bet-

ter men, but I want to ask you if in your judgment you don't
think better pay will
and better men

m~ke

better

o~fioers

out of the same men,

sometimes~

A It may do it, but it ought not to.
~

I understand that, but i t will give a man pride in his

position.

The bond 1dea hae been advanced, and of courae that

ie one cf the remedies.
A Every peace · officer in Texas is under bond.
Q.

I understand that; you ar·e in Cameron County, if you are

sued you are on · the ground, if you go to

Texlin~

or El Paso

you are bankrupt in defending auits.
A There are t?To or three features in Mr. Canales :Bill I
don't like.

One is the Commissioners' Court being permit·ted

to remove, and the other is if they are sued, to be sued in

Texas
i) 81 State Library and Archives Commission

 Tr.i.vis County. · Another thing is, some clabb&r-hea.ded boy
writing me a 1etter, he had got a saddle and a good carbine
a.nd can speak the J.ingo, and I think that is about the l:imi t
of his qualifications, and he thinks that is about the limit
to get on the Ranger force.

I generally thro\'7 these letters

in the waste-basket.
If' the Captain was put under bond and tr..e men put under

Q

discipline, woUldn't it be an imp~vem.ent?
A Yes.

If Captain Stephens was under bond, he would not

have le~ his men acted as they have done.
Don't you believe Captain Wright was all right"')

Q.

A Yes, he is a prince.

~ Don't you believe if his men fail to do their duty he

would fire them like that?
A I believe he would.

Q Since Captain Hansom has been in there, hats there been
anything in the operation of ·the force that has been obj ect1ona.ble, outside of this ma.11 Tate probably'}

A The killing of tha.t Mexican that I tried to get out ot
Stephens and he 'Yould not tell me anything about it.
Q \Yhen was that'? ·

A

That ;1a.s the man they were supposed to ba.ve killed at

Point Isabel.

~

You mean Garcia?

A Yes, and I expect Captain Stephens and his men arrested
ten or twe1ve or fifteen men, they ar~ssted them and would

carry ·chem to the post or to Ilida.lgo County.

I would like to

explain t~.at to the Committee.
o Tha.t Captain did not ~rite you as promptlY as he should,
about Garcia'?
A .And there were·: t'Wo or three other things he did not write
to me about.

He did not write to me about disarming those men

Texas
State Library and Archives Commission
:-g·>
.)
~·

 out there and about those boys taking their ~uns and never
have been delivered back.

I have heard they have been sold up

there and the money tor them --Q.

no you know whether or not that disarming was under mil-

itary orders"
A I could not say.
Q.

'Do you know whether or n.ot thay were turned 1 n to the

Military -- those guns"
A I understood they

~re

not

no, they

w~re

not, because

after Stephens 1 ett that part of the country they

'Ne re

turned

ever to Captain Taylor; three or four old shotgwis that won't
stan~ cocked, he has no guns that they could sell, or by God

they would have gotten rid of them.
THE CP.'AIR?.fAN:

There hae been some testimony about a certain

County Co~iseioner who got quite a lot of booze just before
election time and he was taken out of his oountY'

A Yes.
Q Do you know a~hing about that occurrence'?

A Yes, I heard of it, of course, ~t the time.
at Harlingen that night.

I saw him

They carried him to San Benito, and

they had some kind of a Kangaroo court. I understand, and they
committed the Commissioner, I understood, without bond.

They

carried him to Ridalgo County, and I think the •big boss", as
Colonel Heywood c~ls him, got 1n touch with the Fida.l.go authorities and to1d him they could not hold him.

They turned him

back to Stephens and Cap ~ent him baek to Harlingen with young

Sanders.

I happened to be in the newspaper printing office

when they came back, and Thad Owen, another Commissioner, sent
for me to come over and said this man has a bond that is worth

t100,ooo.oo,

what do you think about it9

ought to be turned loose
what I thought about it.

whe~ h~

I said, I think he

was arrested; wanted to know

I think it wae a plot to -catch me.

i8'l
Texas
)
..State Library and Archives Commission

 I wo~d not have anythi.ng to do with it.

The boy Sanders said,

\.

I don't know what to do, he said I think I will call Captain
Taylor up to see what to do about it.

I says, use your author-

1 ty, I saya I would know what to do 1:t you turned him over to
me •

He says, what would you do.,

I says, I \d ll turn him loose

just as quick as I can, sign my name approving that bond.

He

says, I belieTe I will do that, so he turned him over to me,

and I turned hlm looee about nine o'clock that night.
THE CHAIRflAN:

Were there any conditions in your county that

made it necessary

~or

that party to be held to answer a criminal

charge without bond9
A Absolutely not.

MR. LACKEY:

It was politics, ie all there wae to it.

Who were the Rangers that took him away"?

A 13y George, I ea• them, I think it was Saddler and this

fellow Sittre, I am not sure -- Young Sanders brought him back,
though.
Q.

These men were 1n charge of Captain Sanders"

A Yes.
MR. KNIGHT!

Who is the "b1g boss•'?

A I said Heywood called him the •big boas• -- JUdge Walla.
MR. LACKEY':

Captain, tne time those men were killed on the

crossing when General Hutchin;r was a1ong, you say Andres, one
of the Rangers, was

shot~

A

Yea.

Q

Was anybody else or the party shot.,

A W'ae shot , you mean.,

Q I mean

or

Yes, he was shot.

your crowd?

A None of our crowd.
Q Andres was the onl.y one shot!
.A

Yee.

Q You got there after the shooting'
A Yee, I got around to the house after the boys had done

Texas State Library and Archives Commission
584

 fell.
~

Can you give the names of any of those Rangers?

A Joe Taylor was along and. Captain Ransom a.nd I don't think

Joe belongs to the -Rangers, and Cap Heading was there, but he
was one of my. own men.
Q.

Do you know of your own knowledge who started that shoot-

ing, who was to blame for the shooting and how it sta.rtea?
A Mo, I never did see anything a.bout that, because right in
the spur of the moment -- I think it

pr~bably

could have been

avoided if gona at right, but in the heat of the moment and
after.the fir6t gun fired, nobody could not stop it. · I said

nothing

abou~ it

and went on.

That is a.ll there was to i t .

I didn't know what kind of men they were and didn't investigate
I heard some man say they were bad hombres.

that.
Q,

Uo you know the names of a.n;y of those men that took those

Me:xica.na from San Benito?
A

~o.

Q,

You

A

':i.'he man who has charge of the city jail i a my deputy.

Q,

You don't knor1 any of the Rangers that took them out?

A

l~o.

say the

UR. KUIGllT:

I

Ja.i le r

~1a.a

your deputy'?

understand that you don't know that it wae

Rangers that took them out?
A No, sir.

MR. LACKEY;

You .sa.y you will get the na.mee of those men who

were with Captain Ransom when he took those four men
A

out~

Yea.

SENATOR WITT;

Do you

vould like to

nee~

Rangers in your county now?

A

I

Q.

How many do you think ought to be th ere?

A

I think a dozen men in that county \vill be al1 right.

h~ve

them.

heard :from Colonel Slocum that they stationed a couple of

18 .}
Texas State Library and Archives Commission

I

 Raf13CTS

do~n

there .

That is the main thing we ho.va to contend. with new.

the River and they Btopped all the stea1ing down

There is a lot o.f stealing going on up the River.

put those two do'Hn there.

They should

There is a lot of slackers crosE

the River and a great many waiting to cross the River, a great

many crossed on account of the dl"aft and some .on account of the
fear of the Rangers.

They 11erc born and rais~d in our part of

the country and know every 1mlX fat horse and cow in there ,
and they Vlill continue to give us trouble.

The Range re r...ave

beun e. good thing t of couruc, and. the moral effect of the
Rangers there "Nill be a1l. right.

So far as stopping them :f'rom

stealing cows and taking thom across the River, General Harley
has not enov.gh Range:rs in his ft',rce to do that.

We caught a

fellow in Bro ;vnsville the other day :ror burglary, tho other
d~y,

had to shoot him to catch him, knew he was guilty, and he

went "before the Court and pled. guilty and the jury ga.ve him a
suspended

aent~nce.

The aon-of-a-gun lives in Matamoras and

brought a lot of men over there with him.
YR. I1ACKEY:

You

s~y

they gave · him a suspended e.entence"

A

Yes , two ye: ars •

Q.

Looks lil:e .re need some new jul'ies clown there, as v1ell

as nen- Rangers'?
A There has quite a lot of them betin up here pepping off

be:f'o re this Committee, .is the reauon I made tl>..at remark.
MR. TIDWELL:

Do you know of any tendency down there among

the Rs.ngers or a..."1.ybod.y tc do Mr. Canal6'6 any harm'?
A

The re is nothing exce :pt \then hilil and Mr. Hamer had that

littlo trouble tbat evening.

The Rangers seem to think I

cannot get along •1dth them, and some of them are more or less

raw at me.

I met Captain Stephens in the hall the other day,

I a poke to the gentleman, he refused to speak to me.

have been some few here

~ho

have not spoks to me since I have

Texas State Library and Archives Commission
58()

The r~

 been here.

I try as ha.rd as anybody to get along m th the

Rangers, a.nd it they will treat. me right I will get along with
them.

Something was said about the city and county official.a

not getting along; we get along fine, if there is something I
want done they do it.
l.'R. CANALES:

Q.

State whether or not even some of the

Rangers bring prisoners to your jail and deliver them there

without any commitment and

~ile

no complaint, and those prison-

ers lay four or· five days a.nd you have to turn them loose?

A Yes, four or five da.,ys ago they brought one down there.

o Who wao that Ranger?
A I don't know uhether Brooke was in that bunch or not.

One was no.med Davis.
Q

Row long was that prisoner kept in .iail before commitment?

A He 11aa in Jail before I knew it, and 'Ile kept him there two
o :r three days more trying to get in touch with the Bangers.

Q Have they stopped that

practice~

A It has b<Jen pretty recent 1 f they have.

thing Captain Sto13hens and I tell out about.

That is the f'irat
Stephens• men

brought tour Uexioans down there accu3ed of stealing oattla --

I think that is the tirat thing we :tell aut about ... they were
charged w1 th stealing cattle.

had an examining trial.

T~eir

They came through Harlingen and

bonds were set at $400.CO apiece.

I a.eked how muoh it coet to get them down there.

this fellow Sittre brought them doHn there.
all right.

I said, I want to pay you

~or

Sa.ddl.er and

They said that was

your expense, and I

gave them a check tor a $5.vO bill for the expense for bringing
theu: d.:>wn there.

They said, Captain there is one thing we

want to &ak, we don't

~ant

those men turned out of jail 1 there

is a little dope,we think we oan catch some more.

I said, as

faat as they give bond and some of their friends come a.long

I kno

what I am going to do, I am going to turn them looee,

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 and sure enough some

trom L,yford came

~r1ends

th~re

fromHeltronv!lle and Hr. Sorrenson

and made their bonds.

I asked

th~in

not

to do 1t yet, I told them I would bring them down and teed
them, but they TIOUld not do it, and they
I had to turn them out •

~de

their bonds and

I wrote Captain Stephens three let-

ters and wanted to know What he did with Garcia and thy he

d1sant.ed one or two men. and

so I

*18.S

in Harlingen one

get h1m ovsr even.
C~ptain,

$0

on.

eTen1~g

Re never did 'Vrite me back,

and called him up, could not

About t:te t i rst thinJ$ he said• Is that you,

a.nd I said yes, I want to know where that fellow

Garcia. 1s -- I d! dn' t know whe ro he was, people came to my

office every day and I promised to co-operate -- About the
tiret thing he eaid was, •By God, I want you to understand I
don't want you to start fighting tl'..ose Rangers.••
"'!!old on, I don•t want you to start f1Q"ht1ng me

I said,
eith<~ r,

we

ain't going to bave tt, I have as much right down here as you
have; all I want to know 1s Where those people are .

You dis-

armed those people on the River and old Pedro Linnea is aa
•

good a man as you or I am, every man is presumed to be innocent
and hae a right to a speedy trial, and you know 1t;

don't kno

it, it is time you were learning it.•

i~

you

Re wrote me

a letter that I was the biggest crook 1n Cameron County and he

understood I lnd criminals as my deputies and that me and him
get t.o where we could not

gftt

along at allt and when :Mr. Ransom

came there he f'1nally removed him.
ta~1ng

those three parties out and

It haa been d1ecuased about
su~pesed

I went before the first Grand 3ury that met .
ment Stephens and his men are

l

ecientiou.sly

--"

precedent by

1nd~ct1ng

gon~,

to shoot
I so.id,

t~em.
8

Gentle•

and if you can do it con•

nuring the bandit trouble 11e eet a very bad
nobody.

I said, those days are gone

a.nd 1f you can conscientiously do it, let it go by.

I asked

the 3ustice of the Peace to 'phone or .write Stephens tha.t the
58.~ State
case Library
would beand
eet Archives
in ten days.
I didn' t
Texas
Commission

want tt;em to ban to

 stay in Jail..

I tre.a.'ted them right.

They pulled off some raw

deals, of course, especially during that bandit trouble.

I

wrote the President of the Sheriffs' Association to abolish
the force. I thought it was beet to do it than to have i t go
on like it was. but after Canales introduced his bill to have
better me n and better pay, I jumped on to that right now.
think that 1 s all right.

r

I

There are some things I think mighty

I wouldn't ~ant them sued· 1n this county, nor for the

good.

County Commieeioners Court to remove them, and so on•
In regard to that killing of Andres, I under-

MR . CANALES:

stood you to say Kr. Andres was shot at the time those two

Mexicans
A

w~re

killed

first~

Yes.

Q Isn't it a fact that Andres was not shot until the next
morning when he went to arrest the man who was wounded?

A Sure, I misunderstood you.

There were two men killed

T.hat night and another man shot and left wounded there.
Q:

In the morning Andres \"1ent to arrest tha.t wounded ma n,

and t he wounded man shot him.,

A I don't kn<> W what he went for, ho went there, vrhen he

commenced pulling this etuff out the man tired.
Q He was in his own home, wasn't

ha~

A Yee, tr.ose other two the night before were in their own
home too, and those four arrested over there a t the train
wreck t11ere ir1 their own hon1e too, they were arrested -- they
wer e unfortunate by living tbat close to the wreck ..

MR. LAClfRY:

Y<>u think if a bandit. kne ~ th~t· the Ranger had

to go thirty or forty miles to a J'uat1ce of the Peace for a

wa rrant be f ore he could arrc&t him, don't you think he would
get across the River before he could get the warrant~
A Sure.
l~B .

Re

TIDWELL:

c~.,,

arrest him without a warrant.

Don't you know for a. man to enforce the law

589 State Library and Archives Commission
Texas

)

 he should ~rreat hi~ and carry him before a magistrate~
A Yes, in bis own county and not carry him out of his countJ'

and b store some other magistrate .

I want Rangers; I think there

ought. to be better men an<l bonded men, is what I ~hink about it.
You oan a.rreat ·a man if l1e is trying to get a11a.y, or if you see

him in a fight or drunk or viol&ting the law, you have a right
to arrest them without "warrant.
SEUATOR WI!~:

You arrest men 's ometimes when they aro not 1n

the act at the time?
A If I aaef a co?I thief I ·tfould arreet him, but I go im?rn) ...

diately and fi1e a complaint against him •

......
W.

-~---

..-

• JON'iS,

being duly aworn by Ur. Tidwell of the Committee, testified ae
fo110'N8:

EXAMilmt> :BY JIR. CANALES.
~

You

A

Yea.

liv~

at Corpus

Christi~

Q You own extenaive interests, I think, in Jim Hogg County?
A Yes.
Q You are a

ca~tleman'

A Yes.
Q Have you bad protection trom Bangere9

A Yes, I have bad protection from
Q,

th~ R~~gers.

Have you ever requested theD1 to come around th ere'

A Yes, I have called on the?n: to come down there, a.nd theycame.

I have not called on -the Rangers tor snera.l years, two

or three years.

About three yearn ago I had tt:Jo Rangers that

stayed at my house all the time "111le I was absent.

as gone they were there.

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

While I

 Do you know where the Ranger!' were stationed at the ·iring

Q

Ranch~

A Yest I think Range re were stationed at King• s Ranch.
~

How long were they stationed

there~

A I don't know, I i;aw them t.here every time I went to to
Mori as.
Row many'?

Q.

A I don't know.
~

Approximately~

A I have seen two or three.
Q

Is that country open or thickly wooded'

A

Oht it ia an open country.

Q How tar f'ro:n there to the nearest large settlement~
A

I don't know ~actly how f'ar it is down there to Raymond-

ville, I think that is the nearest settlement.
q

Raymondville to the south ia the nearest settlement'

A Yes.
Q

Sarita to the north 1e a large settlement'>

A

Yes.

Q

Between those two large Bettlements is a large range

country, cattle eountry, between there and
A

Yea.

Q.

Who 11 "98 on tbeso ranches

or

King~

K1ng' s besides their own

employes.,

A ! don't know o~ anyone that lives the re besides their own

einployes.
Q Sn t ,he only t.hing that ~angers 11ould be doing o"\Br there

would be to look after Yr. K1ng 1 Q cattle~

A To keep

~hievee

THE CF'AIF&AN:

from depredating.

If you have vr1 tnesses upon any o~ the ee

speci~1c charges, let's have

them.

I am going to ea.y to you

frankly, I do not think this 1 s a matter that ~ have juris-

Texas
r>91 State Library and Archives Commission

 diction over.

I mean that your charges that ~avors have been

shown to any particular community in southwest Texas by putting
Rangers there, so far as I a.~ concerned we are net going to
investigate.

I will let the major1ty control.

MR. CA~ALES!

I understood there was no objection to that

charge.
THE CHAIR¥AN':

I am making one now.

If the Committee desires

to ovsrnile me, they may do ao. · We muet get through with this
t h ing b etore it wears us out and ba.nkrupte the State.

I am

more than w1111ng to go into any charees of. misconduct on the
p art 01.' the Rangers, but aside trom that

ber of t he committee ~ho disagrees with me~
he3itate to ao.y so.

Is there any mem-

If you do, do not

Re was asking him if there n-as a~~~ng

else the Raneers could do besides to guard ~he King's Ranch •

•

I em overntling it upon tha.t phaee by 3a.ying that 11e hava no

time to go into tbat.

I have ruled.

It the Com.,ittee wante

t o hear the evidence, they can do so.
SENATOR WITT:

I think 1 r !t is a fact that Rangers are being

used to look after one person ' s property to the exclusion of
lookina after other people's property, it would be proper to
hear it, if that is a faot.

(Stenographer read last preceding (!Ue•t1on, as follows:

•so

the only thing tr..at the P.a:ngers TIOUid be doing over there would
be to look after Yr. King's cattle'!•)

GEt'ERAL RAJU'..EY:

I am not objecting, not taking any iseue

with the eommittee in their objection to proving ~he matter
I would state that is a leading question.
T:n:g CltAIRMAN:

It would be leading, but this witness knowe

enough u..'tiout these thing~.

It the Committee oaree to go into

t hat invest 1gation., I w1ll interpose no ·f urther objection.
SENATOR PAGE :

MR. CAYA!..ES:

I understood him to say that he didn•t know.

I will ask you 1 t they are stationed at Horias,

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 about halt way between those two large settle~ents I told you,
RaymondTille on the north a.nd Sarita on ths eouthi

I believe

you anawcred also the question as to whether or not there is
anybody else except their own employes living around or in the
immediate vicinity.
A That is all that is living right there.
How f&r to the ~est 1 e there any large settlement from

Q,

Norias"! ·

•

A The re is none untiJ. you get u1> "to Hebbronville.

They are

all large ranches west cf there.
Q.

And to the ea.st the Gulf o'f 11exico~

A Gulf

oi~

Mexico.

Q There is no large settle:nent between those

points~

A No, but Norias is a very loc1c~l point to put Banger~ at
that station.
away.

I don't kno •.- what the Ranger.:! do uhen they are

I only see. the!D when I am there.

for them to ecout from.

It io a good place

They oan maet Rangers c-omirie from Rio

Grande City and Rebbronvil1e being on the railroad it is a very
good place.
Q.

Do you think it has more advantages than a.t Baymondv1lle,

where there 1s a large

settlement~

A I will te1l you, I am opposed to putting Rangers into
these litt JS toYIJlS.
Q

V/hy?

A They form ba.ci ha.bits, loafing around town.

When they get

around these towne they don't like tc get out as ~ell au they
do when you put them out on a ran.oh, and the towns ha.ve local
o ff1~era tc nrotect thai r tor1n, a.nd I think the .Rangers do

better in the ccuntry.
Q

Have you seen any of ths Rar~~rs in the past eix or oight

months drunk or disorderly?

A ' N'o, I have not seen any of them drunk; in f-act, I have

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 not seen any Ra."lgers f'or the last six or eight month~ only

meeting them en t'he train.
MR. XNIGET:

is that

~here

Q.

captain jonea, that !Joriae Ro.nch mentioned,

the raid was last year9

A

Yes.

Q

.:as tl'.at the same ranch where t.he torema.n was killed last

year -- Martin"'
A He ~as not killed at that ranch, I don•t 91:.X think.
0.

The lfor:lan B~nch ia where your :photograph owne :from isn't

:lt (indicat~$ postcard)?

A I don't know.
Q.

Mexican bandits killed at Norias -- Wasn't Captain Hartin

~oreman

A He

of the Nor!as Raneb9
li~ed ~n

a ranch.

Q They made two attemz>ts, he v1a.o wounded the first tima on

tne ranch and was uftenmrds killed"
A He wa.1:'1 over on a ranch west of Morias «here he lived.

Q You 8ay some time ago you asked for protection and a couple
of Rar.gera stayed on your ranch"'
A

That was about three yoars ago •

Q Do you know anything in the world Why a citisen whose
property or li~e 1o exposed in the 113ht of depredations that
have been committed on the same ranch recently should b~ denied
the protection of the Bangers?

A I don't th1r.ik !t would be right to deny them the protection.
S]lNM:OR 'llITT:

tlie use

{)f

You don•t know of o.ny t'avors being shown in

.

P.angers tc prci;eet one community• s property or one

estate'~ property, to the exclusion ot' ~nyboey else, do you?

A Nt'> • I don't know tha't I do •

In regard to the Rangers

being on Kin~• s Ranch, I hava been

,_n

tlia.t country for more

than twenty years, ann th~re has been more or lesa depredation
on King' a Ranch tho.n ~.my other place, and I don't know but what

594 State
they Library
baYe been
down Commission
there more than
Texas
andneeded
Archives

anywhere else and

 ..
being atat1oned at Nor1ae it 1s a very logical point where they
could go all over the COlJlltry.

If' they do their duty, 1t 1a a

good place tor them, and they oan aoout the entire country from
1lor1as.

UR. KNIGHT:

The only railroad. line in that country ia there'

A From th ere to Falf°urriaa.
MR. LA.CKBY:

'Doesn't the Armetrong Banch adjoin the Noriaa

Ranoh or the King Ranch4?
A Yea, on the nGrth.
Q.

And the Irenned.y Ranch on the weet?

A Ho, the Kennedy Ranch joine them on the north also.
ct You join them on the west, the Armstrong Ranch and the
Kennedy Ranch on the north'

A Between them and the ----

0. Do you know ot any act of any Ranger down in that seot1on
or t h e country in the la.et two yeare that was detrimental to

t he eerv1ce or that thio Committee ought to investigate'!

Do

you mow of' your own movledge of any act of' the Rangers'?
A No, air, not ot my own knowledge I don't know of an.J'•
SEF..ATuR WITT :

Bae there been complaint that you thought wae

reliable of m1econduot of the Rangers'
A Well. no. only I Juet heard some little talk.

I heard

some talk about aome Rangers going to San Diego three or four
months ago and getting drunk, drinking and shooting \lp the

t. own.

I ha.Te not been down on the R1 ver and ha•e not been

thrown 1n contact wlth the Rangere.

All the Rangers I ever

met alwa.rs acted very nice.
MR. I.ACREY:

Ro• far are yon from lrhere this raid • • made

on the Bast Ranch 8ome time
A

ago~

It is about t.wenty-five miles from my headquarters ranch

over t o the East Ranoh.
Q

That 1 s where

t>rwn this raid was made

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

by those band1 ta

 at this timett
A I have one ranch about ten mi lee f'rom 1 t,

~

headquarters

ranch 1a about twenty-f'ive m1lee.
Do you know whether the Rangers captured any o-r those

Q

bandits . or not'
A I don't know whether they did or not.
Rangers caught one

or

them.

I understood tbe

Right at the time they tound them

I don't bellf.?'le the7 captured al'13'; they might have captured

some later.
Q How tar wae that from the River?
A I guoaa the cloeeet point, about forty or torty-t1ve miles •

.......,......-

B. J'. IIRI',

being dul7 sworn by Kr. Tidwell

or

the Committee, teatified ae

tollowa:
/

EXAJIIDD :BY KR. CANALES.
~

You are Justice ot the Peace, Precinct No. 2. in Cameron

County'>

A Yee, sir.

Q How long have you been in »rownaville'
A Twelve years.
Q

9lhe re d.14 you come from."!

A Chicago.
Q

that

You were the Coraner that held the inquest over the bodY
1'a8

round on

the road trom Point Isabel to San Benito,

supposed to 'be the bOO.y ot Florenoia Garcia?

A It was nearer the coast than San Benito.
~

I eaid on the road trom Point Isabel to San Benito?

A

Yea.

q Have you got with 70u the copy of your proceedings there

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 that you held'

A Yes, sir.
Q

Will 70u please exhibit 1t here.

MR. DIGRT:

le that calling for the copy ot the findings,

or the teet1aony?
HR. CANALES: . Copy ot the f'1nd1nge,.
UR. XNIGF.:'l:

I think if wo obeene the precedent set th! s

morning in the case ot :Nunoz, he -sim.pl.y stated that the J"uat1ce
of the Peace simply tailed to bind him over.

He oan ask th! a

same th1ng 9 Whether he did or d1d not bind them over.
THE CRAIBJIAB:

It is on the question of identification, I

think; 1t is not a question of whether the defendants were
bound OTer or not bouncl oTer -- it is on the queetion o-r 14entifioation, I think.
MR. CJJlAIES:
identity
A

t

I s that a copy of your 1'1nd1ngs as to the

ot tbat bodY'

Yee.

u.

CAHALBS:

I want to .introduce th&t in evidence.
I

It may

b e read now.

MR. DIGEr:
MR. CANAIBS:

Let's clean 1 t up ae we go.
Q. Read 1t.

A This is No. 51, •!Jo. 51, Inqueat hel.d by Henry :r. Kirk,
J'. P •• Preo•t 2 on 1'ay 22, 1918, at Place on _the \fa.it Pasture

on the body

o;- Fl.orenc1o

Garcia.

Nature ot intormatien given
I~

1uatioe of the Peace and by whom given.

.

Garza, Kr. Gray,

company with Coneul

'

Fulen~io

Lopez, Co. Atty. Dancey, Raf'ael Cowen,

H. 11. Barnes, l?re4. Wynn
and Ur. ?:hayer represent 1ng the Hinkley
.
.
Undertaking Co. visited spot 2S xn1lea 'tr~ Brosnsv1lls N. E ..

and 8 mt lee . lf. W'! :

"t

1ef't of aKex1e&.n;

fl~eh

Point I eab&l Tex.

8ome black . hair, .'Jacket

!here f'ound what wae

all gone practically, a1l bones found,
1th 3 holes, shirt 3 holes:t l hd'kf

(small monogram) l pr shoes, 1 gray :"felt hat purchaeed f'rom
I

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 L. Gariboy E'v1lle, 2 olaap garters, 7 teeth missing front lower

jaw and 1 1eft back, 10 upper front teeth good, Identification
by Kigucl Garcia (Father) Iaadoro Garcia {Brother) •ho recog-

nized the clothes as belonging to Fulencio Garcia.

The rem.a.ins

were brought to Brc>\'tllSTille and later vio•ed by Dr .. B. L.

Cole - all etfeets ta.ken charge ot by Sheriff Dept.
Inqueet, Hay 22, 1918, noon-

Where · Inqueet was held - on epot

Da.te .of death unknown.

where remains were found.

Date of

Where diad

or where body was found. - Body found 1n the Wait pasture,
exact place of death unknown.
Garcia.

Bame o'f Deoeased - Florencio

Description of deceased - Noxthing but bones, hair,
Finding by the justice - Cause o:t

and some clothes found.

death unknown.•
UR. ltllIGHT:

llR. CA'tULBS:

l'hat was the date

ot your :rinding'

Did you hold inquest on other dead Kex1cane

in 1915, 1916 and 1917 • and you helpod the1 r -parents to bury
their bod1ee-?

A Well, I cemnot say tbat I did hOld a regular 1nqueet, but
I went to places, they were lying there, but in such advanced

etage of decomposition they were buried there.

Q Why did you go there?
A At the request

o~

relatives.

A They aeked me to.
Q I will ask you whether relativee were permitted to bury
those people.,
A They said not, no, thoy aa1d they were afraid to.

Q Whom d1d they say they were afraid ot?
A Orie afternoon about two o'clock a party came to me and
said tha.t there was dead bodiee in the neighborhood and they
•

were ao offensive that they anted them dispoeed
to know why the authorities did not take action.

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

o~

and wanted

I didn't

 know anything about· it before, and a little later on a man
named Nathan Lightborn came to me and asked me 1 f I would go
out there with him and rela.tivea to bury these bodies.
him why don'·t you go out and bury them yourself?

I asked

He said he

was afraid to go, and I asked him why, and he said he was
afraid that the Rangers would shoot them.

That is what he

said to me.

Q Uid you go out there?
A

I did.

Q How many bodies were there?
A Four.
Q.

Were you requeated· to go somewhere else where there were

about twenty bodies'

A Yea, sir.
Q Where were those bodies?

A They were up -- I learned later they were on a ranch owned
or operated by a man named Jeff Scribner.
Q. Well, did you assist those

people~

A I did not.
Q.

Why'?

A Because it was out of my J*r1sdiot1on.
Haye you seen some of the Rangers in BroWD8V1lle lately?

Q.

A Yes, very often.
~

Row do they come there and how are they dressed?

A They are not all dreaaed alike, but most of them are in
the usual Ranger garb, a large felt bat, coat and shirt and a

big belt full of cartridges and a big gun exposed and boots,

mo st of them are that way.
Walking around that way'?

Q,

•

A' Yea.

Q How large a town ' is

~rownsTille?

A Six or seven thousand .

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

(

 Is it a very disorderly town->

Q.

A Wo, I don't think so; I think quite the contrary_
What is the averagti popnlat1on, between .Americans

Q.

am

:texicans or of Kexican deecent"
A I could not answer that detini tely, but I have always been

led t-0 think that it is about seventy-t1ve percent Uexicans
and twenty-five Americans.
Q

Do you find those Jlexica.ne · 1awless, rowdy, da.~erous people4?

A Why, generally speaking, n~, but ot course in my duties

I have run across a good man:r that I did think wore wrong,
naturally.
Q.

Did you hear some ot those rangers talk -

they come to

your office of'ten to make att1dav1t"i

A Yes, most of them oome every month, and I make out atti•
davits for them.
Q. How do they talk'

A Wel1, eo~e of them talk a little bit wild about people
and things.
Q

What do 7ou mean by •wild"'

A Well, they eeem to be 41aaatistied, from the talk I have
heard• they seem to be d1esatist1ed at the amount ot remuner-

ation they get -- I have noticed that lu.tely.
Q Did they use any bad language with regard to tbat~

A Well, I heard them ouss some.
Q.

Did they use .any language tovra.rd the Adjutant General' a

Department'
A I don•t

. kn0'7

just Who it was directed to, but 1t was to

the people •ho regulate their pa.,y.

MR. l!c!!ILLIN:

The Legislature.

llR. CANAIES:

Ra,-e you seen some

intoxicated or. tinder the influence

ot them "11en they appeared

ot liquor'!

A I cannot say t:ha.t I have; I havs seen them in places where

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

 they could hare got that way 1t they

anted· to, individually.

I cannot isay that I bave seen one ot them that wa.s apparently
. that way.

I am talking now from the standpoint of my individ•

ua.l knowledge •

EI.Al!IHED BY liR. KNIGE!·.

q You have been in :srownaville twelve yearsf
A Yes.
You were asked 1f 7ou held any inquests ot Helli cans down

Q.

there: how long have you been 1uatice do\1Jl1 there?

A Two tel'D18, a little over.

Have you had occasion to hold any inquests over any dead

Q

Texans down there at any time?

A Yee.
How many?

Q.

A That is pretty hard to tell.

-

If' I had my records I could

tell• but I don't know What n'Qmber, I didn't know wllat I wae
coming here tor.

ot do&d

Texans~

(t

ii/hat would be your idea of' the number

A

Well, there have been a good many white men, I eoul.d not

state ho' many llexioans.
q

All right .

The dead bodies in the neighborhood, I didntt

catch 1here that ne1ghborho4d was where there were some dead

bodies and individuals wore afraid to go to them ~1n

was

that

Browne<J1lle~

A Yea.
~

When was it

-~

I mean where yon claimed they said

~he

odor wae nox1oue?
A That was right after that train wrecking• I don• t reoall

the date.
Q

That was 1915.

Were those the bodies ot· bandits tba t

were k1lled there at that time?

601 State Library and Archives Commission
Texas

 A ! don't know tbat they were bandits, they were four Yex-

icans.
Arter the train wreck there were some men kille-d, weren't

Q

there?
A Well, they were dead Jlex1cane ..

Q Someone came to you and told you the reason he
burie~

them he was

ba~

not

afraid~

A Nathan Lightborn.
Q Ie he a Mexican?
he speaks English very

A He 1s either Spanish

-

~luentl3.

as he ntlated to them'?

Q

A Re 1e related to a great many tl".at went to tlla.t f'Uneral.
Q.

Are the tears always well :rounded of' the Bangers->

:For

instance, before the Committee a constabl.e from dmm there

stated to the Committee that he was afraid of an attack of the

Rangers here ...
A

\Vho was he?

~

A constable

~rom

Duval County.

A I don't know, I don't know Why he should be afraid.
Q Now do you know of any reason why tha..t man that reported

to you should be any more 1n actuality a:rra1d tha.n waa this
constable~

A Well, he has heard the general Mexican population and he

kno"8 the~r vi&ws, their ideas and their tee1ings. I think ira
t'hat 18 why, and the majority, before we got out to that place
I think there must ban been five or. tdJt hacks filled up with

men and wornon who finally

~ent

out to this plaoe of burial.

,G. There was a goo~ deal of German propaganda all .a.long the
border nbout tmt time, wasn't there?
A I ho a.rd the re was some.
'

q

ao a

There was real -- at the .headquarters at El Paso there
~ell

formed conspiracy to stir up trouble down on the

60'.~ State Library and Archives Commission
Texas

 border, you heard of it'
A

I heard of it.

Q

Do you mow whetl'er or not that tear wai;; not inspired by

reaeon of German propaganda at that time?

A I could not answer tba.t queation.

I know that there tms

a. great exodu~ of' Mexicans from BrCJlllBVille to litexioo and I know
that I 1nqu1red -SENATOR WILLIFORl»:

It oooure to m~ that the Committee has

thoroughly threshed out the general situation down there, having spent two clayg on it before it went into the pa.rtieulars.
MR. KNIGHT:

Probably so, I was not here in the beginning.

Q Now there were twenty dead bodies reported to you eome-

where out in some pa.ature"I
A

No, seventeen bodies is what I have always heard.

Q You never did see

them~

A Never did.
Q' It was hearsay so far as you are concerned?
A It cane to me from several different parties, but it t:ae

hearsay.
Q Were th$ Bangers accueed of being responsible tor those
bodiee'
A

Tb&t its :shat I always heard.

q

How long a.go was that'

A

I cannot ata'te the elate• but I believe it 'fl&u after that

train wrecking .matter t 1 t was after that.
MR. lCNIGltt ~

Is there any allegation in the indi~tment re-

garding that episode?
i'HD CHAIRUAN:
out.

~here is an allega·tion tha.t fifteen were taken

Ie ta:.t.t correct, Mr. Canales"

UR. CAl:fALES:

I think there ia one allegation that there was

f i:tteen.

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

-

 EXAKIN'.BD BY KR. TIDWELL.
Q,

W1 thin the past f'i:tteen or eighteen monthe can you report

to the Committee a single 1nstanoe that occurred under your
personal observation in which a Ranger exceeded h1e authority

or acted in a disorderly manner around Brownev1lle"?
A Through my personal knowledge I cannot say that I do.
lty inf'ormat1on comes to me in a partly official -- anc'- knowing

nearly eTeryone down there I hear a great deal, and how much
o t tbat 1 s true I am not prepared to aay, but I know what the
general. thought ie amongst Uexicans down there and Whether that
1s well founded or not I am not prepared to say, but I do know
that we are interested down there and we want a quiet country
and we don't want the people that ia doing the work, that we
regard as good Mexicans, we don•t want them to leave, and they
have been leaving there for some cause in an alanning wa.y.
It was a eommon occurrence to aee team atter team loaded with

I

household goode going acroes 1nto Mexico.
Q

Isn't 1t also true when a man is 1uat1ce ot the Peace

that there are complaints made against the Sheriff' and the
depu.t:f es

and. the local peace otticere in the same way'?

A I don•t think our local peace ott1oere are entitled to
much blame now.

Our police depart.cent and the Sheritt• s

dera.rtment worlc in harmony.
now.

There 1s very little crime there

In tact, it is the quietest place imaginable.

SEN~OR

VIILLIJ?UBD:

Isn't it a ract that the Hoxicane left

to keep trom going into the United States Army?
A

1

0 •

they were too old for that, and a great many of them

left children there and daughters that instead

or

Mexico, they had little jobs there in Brownsville,

going to
orking in

storea, they said, some of whom I married and their husbands
deserted them, they came to me and I aaked them why their

604

parents wero all leaving, and I know the general answer that

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

/

 they bave a1ways given me.
SEJJA'.l'OR PAGE:

What was 1t?

A They eaid that they ware afraid ot the Rangers, atraid
\

of the Bangers, that has been the talk right straight aiong.

SRNATvR WILLIFORD:

That condition did not exist onl.y' in

war time'>

A Well, it has not .been tbat teeling so tar as I know all
the time• but I kno'1 1t has been .a good pa.rt of the time

of

late year1.
SENATOR WI~T !

Q Ras that :tee ling been in the last twelve

months• Judge•
A Well, no, not as much in the last t•elve months as it waa.

I not1ced i t more after tbat wrecking busineea down there.

I noticed i t more for some time
Q.

~er

that.

That was back in 1915 and 1916'?

A Yee, there haa not been aa much of that lately.
Q These older men and women that went across the River 1n
those days, have they returned'
A Some have, but a great many have remained.

They had

li tt; le place a in the country, and some eeemed to be doing well,

they seemed to aa.crifioe their household goode and leave and
ae I heard it, it was through fears, and as I heard it, it wae

because they feared the Rangers wo~d visit them.
~R. LACR'BY:

Did you ever hear of any white peop~e crossing

the River down there bec•use they were afraid of Rangers.,
A No, I don't think I have -- nearly all ltexicans.

They

have their general feeling here, I don•t know but tha~ 1e the
way they
Q

talk.

Do you know that tbe fear

ot

.
the Rangers was due to German

p ropaganda'
A It may have been.

I never ran across much German propa-

ganda, I don't know much about it.

It is all hearsay with me.

60'.) State Library and Archives Commission
Texas

 In my twelve years' experience there I have met the majorit~
. of the Rangers and their Captains, and so 'f'ar as I a:n. concerned

I 11ke them all• a nd the y al: like .m.e.

me

a favor

Any of them wou.ld do

if' I bad occasj on to ask one, but when I hea.rd

t he se things I want to state pra.otioally all I know.
Q.

Yon stated Just now you had seen the Rangers in the saloons

but you ha<1. never seen any or them drunk.

I 11ill ask you i1'

you h~.ve aoen the city and oount.y otf'icial.& aleo in the saloons'

A Yes. I lave ..
Q. · Tht;y frequent them of'ten"

uh, yest

A

is when the

I have seen officers

s~loons ~ere

or all

kinds· in there. that

open.

Yonr relations with the Rangers have been pleasant t they

Q

come to you to make out their account'?

A Yes, I know them all and I like them all too.
Q.

n:t d yau ever hear of them abu8ing anybod1'1'

A

Mo.

Q.

Cir cursing on the

A

No.

streets~

o You say they curse in your

office~

A They curse in my office once in a while.
MR. CANAIRS:

When there was n big exodus last year, do you

remember when I, in company with others, made speeches to
\

pacify them and keep them from going, about .Tune o·r July or
August_,

'°"

A I am not just sure of the time e:taetly, but perhaps it baa

been a.bout a year.

you recollect the year be:f:"ore 1917 when

General L!orton was there, the.t I went out there also making

epeeohe c in order to keep them :t'rom.

going~

A Ye s., I remember that• but I am not sure of the exact date •
.MR . :P:MIGP.T:
moat C>f them.

You stated that these leavir.g were older p eople,
I w111 ask you to state if you are a.dvhsed that

c- H' State Library and Archives Commission
u
Texas
7

)

 the records ehow that there were ?57 deeertera an d military
d.el1nquenta bad left after thoy had registered, as shOwn by the

ni<fence 1n that county.
(Objection interposed by Yr. Canales)

THE CHAI&!AN:
UR. KNIGHT:

e have excluded that evidence.
~hie is in repJ.y to hi a statement that it was

the older people that had left.

-----------J'OE SCOTT ,

.

being duly sworn by »r. Tidwell of the Committee, tes~itied aa
followa:

Q State your name.

A Joe Scott.

Q Where do you ree1de?
A

San Benito.

q How long have you resided there?
A I have been there eeyen yeara.
Q.

Do you remember the circumstance or eeven dead :Mexicans,

of th&i r bodiee being round there some time ago'
A During the band1·t trouble"'
Q.

Yea.

A I heard the Sheriff' telling it.bout, 1 t.

He is maat&ken

about the number and the way tbey diecl.
~

Tell the Committee the number and how they died.

A Thoao Mexicans were arrested
Q.

Sir"'

A

Those Hextoans were arrested

to town with them, and on the

'Via::/

by

the soldiera.

by the

so1dJ era and etarted

to town, to San Benito., the

Texas
r..J U't State Library and Archives Commission

 eoldi era made one of them a propos1 ti on, gave him a start of
a hundred yards and gave him a chance to nm, and he acc~pted it.
THE CHAIRMAl1:

Were you the re?

.

A No, tha.t . 1s what I was told.

GEttERAL HARLEY:

We understand the Sheriff stated from What

he merely heard too.

THE CHAIBLWJ:

I am going to

the version of every man.

say

seriously, we cannot take

You t.ake an of'f1c1al who has made

an officSal investigation, in my judgment it the rules are
....

relaxed at all it ought to be where an off1c1al. ha.a made an
1rrYest1gat1on.

As I understand 1t, Captain Vann wae detailing

the resul.t of his 1nveet1gat1ons.
MR. KllIGRT:

i l l right.

Q They were arrested by whom?
A The soldiers.

O. Do you know that f&ct of your own knowledge?
A No, I have been told so.
Q.

Row many of them were the re'

A There were tiTe of them.

q Row far did you live from the scene of the accident'
A Well. :trom where they were arreeted I suppose I 11ved
seven or eight mile•, but I heard the guns very plainly that
killed them.
ere there any Rangers in that country at that time'?
Q,

A The Bangers were at Harlingen, I rarely ever saw a Ranger

at San Benito.
Q. At the time you heard those gune were there any Rangere
in San Benito">

A Not that I know of.
Q

Tha.t 1s all • .

Texas State Library and Archives Commission
GO~

 RXNlINED BY ?lR. TIDWELL.

Q You have heard they were arrested by
.L...

soldiers~

~~----~~--======---====:==.=:;;;~~--=~~~~

Q

You heard the guns that

A

Yee ..

Q 'Did you go up the, re'

A No.
Q

1)~ d yt)U see them4'

A

Un~

o

How long betore you did eee t.hemt'

A I didn't see them untjl some parties who went down there
told me.

·-------.....
. RUSSELL SAVAGE,

being duly nQrn by Kr. 'l'idwell of the Committee• test. ifj ed as

follows:.

EXA!!!NE"D BY .MR •
Q

CAl~ALES.

Ycur name is Russell Savage?

A Yes,

~ir.

Q You live in Corpus Christi'
A Yes, $1 r.

Q What official position do you hold there1
A City Attorney.
Q.

Were you ever guilty of being a tl3lllber of the Legislature" ,

A Once only.
W"-" s

1t"

Q

When

A

I ·ma a menber of

th~

i'Oth Leg1ale.ture.

o Mr. Savage, in the last primary in Corpue Christi
out during that day v1sitinG the various polls?
A Was I out?

Texas State Library and Archives Commission

~ere

 A Yes.
Q Did you notice any Rangers stationed

A I neTer noticed

any

at the polls.

Q Where were they4?
A

I eaw some RMgers in town bef'or.e· the primary on th~ morn-

1 ng of the primary election day.
Q,

Where were they located~

A I think I saw them driving around town.

Saw them once

sitting in a car down town.
Q I neVer heard

or

Corpus Christi being a very corrupt

Was it neoeesary to have Rangers there?
A

Not a.t all.

Q

Have you obeerved Rangers usually around .that city">

A

.No; sir.

That is the only time you.eTer eaw them'
A Yes.
Q

MR. K'llIGHT:

Have you eyer heard

or

Peregrinus'?

A Yes, very familiar wjth him.
You aa.y you saw a.om.e Rangers sitting in a car?
A Yes.
Q.

Q.

That 1 s all.

(At this time the Committee reoeaeed until lO:ov
Saturday, February 8th. )

........,.._____....

. ('\} Texas
q
State Library and Archives Commission
...

)