SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA IN AND FOR THE COUNTY OF SAN DIEGO DEPARTMENT 28 HON. DAVID M. GILL, JUDGE THE PEOPLE, ) ) PLAINTIFFS, ) VS. ) ) JAMES EDWARD GARY, ) ) DEFENDANTS. ) _______________________________) DA NO. AEA005 CASE NO. SCD266372 PRELIMINARY HEARING CERTIFIED COPY REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS FRIDAY, JUNE 10, 2016 A P P E A R A N C E S: FOR THE PEOPLE: FOR DEFENDANT: FOR THE MINOR: BONNIE DUMANIS DISTRICT ATTORNEY BY: MARTIN DOYLE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY 330 WEST BROADWAY SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA 92101 OFFICE OF ASSIGNED COUNSEL BY: PATRICK DUDLEY 450 B STREET, SUITE 840 SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA 92101 ANGELA A. BARTOSIK, CHIEF DEPUTY ALTERNATE PUBLIC DEFENDER BY: JO PASTORE ALTERNATE DEPUTY PUBLIC DEFENDER 450 B STREET, SUITE 1200 SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA 92101 FOR RONALD POSNER: A. ROXANE BUKOWSKI ATTORNEY AT LAW 550 WEST C STREET, SUITE 1400 SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA 92101 REPORTED BY: ADELA MEDINA, CSR 11964, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 1 CHRONOLOGICAL INDEX OF WITNESSES 2 PAGE LINE VOL 3 4 - PEOPLE'S WITNESS DIRECT BY MR. DOYLE . . . . . . . . . . .7 CROSS BY MR. DUDLEY . . . . . . . . . . 35 23 2 1 1 RONALD POSNER - PEOPLE'S WITNESS DIRECT BY MR. DOYLE . . . . . . . . . . 41 CROSS BY MR. DUDLEY . . . . . . . . . . 45 6 26 1 1 CHRISTINE PENWELL - PEOPLE'S WITNESS DIRECT BY MR. DOYLE . . . . . . . . . . 55 CROSS BY MR. DUDLEY . . . . . . . . . . 68 REDIRECT BY MR. DOYLE . . . . . . . . . 73 6 9 19 1 1 1 BRANDON POWELL - PEOPLE'S WITNESS DIRECT BY MR. DOYLE . . . . . . . . . . 75 CROSS BY MR. DUDLEY . . . . . . . . . . 79 10 27 1 1 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 1 ALPHABETIC INDEX OF WITNESSES 2 3 4 5 PAGE LINE VOL BRANDON POWELL - PEOPLE'S WITNESS DIRECT BY MR. DOYLE . . . . . . . . . . 75 CROSS BY MR. DUDLEY . . . . . . . . . . 79 10 27 1 1 CHRISTINE PENWELL - PEOPLE'S WITNESS DIRECT BY MR. DOYLE . . . . . . . . . . 55 CROSS BY MR. DUDLEY . . . . . . . . . . 68 REDIRECT BY MR. DOYLE . . . . . . . . . 73 6 9 19 1 1 1 - PEOPLE'S WITNESS DIRECT BY MR. DOYLE . . . . . . . . . . .7 CROSS BY MR. DUDLEY . . . . . . . . . . 35 23 2 1 1 RONALD POSNER - PEOPLE'S WITNESS DIRECT BY MR. DOYLE . . . . . . . . . . 41 CROSS BY MR. DUDLEY . . . . . . . . . . 45 6 26 1 1 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 1 INDEX OF EXHIBITS RECEIVED 2 PAGE LINE VOL 3 DEFENSE A DETENTION SERVICES BUREAU MANUAL OF POLICIES AND PROCEDURES SECTION ON MONITORING TELEPHONE CALLS 88 9 1 PEOPLE'S 1 USE AND DERIVATIVE USE IMMUNITY AGREEMENT 10 27 1 87 8 1 42 8 1 4 5 6 7 8 COURT'S 1 9 FOURTH WAIVER AND E.C.P.A. SEARCH/SEIZURE CONSENT FORM 10 PEOPLE'S 2 11 RONALD POSNER USE AND DERIVATIVE USE IMMUNITY AGREEMENT 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 1 1 SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA; FRIDAY, JUNE 10, 2016; 11:31 A.M. 2 -- O0O -- 3 THE COURT: THE COURT CALLS FOR PRELIMINARY 4 EXAMINATION AND ALSO HEARING OF A MOTION PURSUANT TO 1538.5, 5 THE CASE OF THE PEOPLE VERSUS JAMES EDWARD GARY, CD266372. 6 STATE YOUR APPEARANCES, PLEASE. 7 MR. DOYLE: 8 GOOD MORNING, YOUR HONOR. MARTIN DOYLE ON BEHALF THE PEOPLE. 9 MR. DUDLEY: GOOD MORNING, YOUR HONOR. 10 PATRICK DUDLEY ON BEHALF OF MR. GARY, WHO IS PRESENT BEFORE 11 THE COURT, IN CUSTODY, SEATED TO MY LEFT. 12 THE COURT: 13 SENTENCING IS CASE C354022. 14 THAT CASE? 15 16 THANK YOU. MR. DUDLEY: I DO. I THINK ALSO TRAILING FOR DO YOU REPRESENT MR. GARY ALSO ON I WAS APPOINTED ON THAT AT MY LAST APPEARANCE. 17 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. WE HAVE PRESENT OTHER 18 COUNSEL, I THINK, SO IT MAY BE APPROPRIATE FOR THEM TO STATE 19 THEIR APPEARANCE AND WHO THEY ARE REPRESENTING. 20 21 MS. BUKOWSKI: REPRESENTING A WITNESS BY THE NAME OF RONALD POSNER. 22 23 GOOD MORNING, ROXANE BUKOWSKI AND I'M THE COURT: HAVE YOU HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO TALK TO HIM? 24 MS. BUKOWSKI: 25 THE COURT: 26 MS. PASTORE: 27 I'M APPEARING ON BEHALF OF THE 28 OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK WITH HER, AND I DO HAVE A COUPLE OF Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) I HAVE, YOUR HONOR. COUNSEL. JO PASTORE, ALTERNATE PUBLIC DEFENDER. I'VE HAD AN 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 2 1 REQUESTS REGARDING HER TESTIMONY. 2 THE COURT: YES, WE'LL GET TO THOSE MOMENTARILY. 3 I MET WITH COUNSEL EARLIER AND WE DID DISCUSS SOME 4 PROCEDURAL MATTERS FOR WANT OF A BETTER TERM. THE COURT ALSO 5 HAD ON ITS CALENDAR THIS MORNING FOUR OTHER MATTERS STARTING 6 AT 8:45, AND I EXPLAINED TO COUNSEL THAT IT WOULD BE MY 7 INTENTION TO COMPLETE THE HEARING ON THOSE MATTERS BEFORE WE 8 STARTED THE HEARING ON THIS CASE. 9 BE BY FAR THE LONGEST HEARING. THIS CASE WAS INDICATED TO THE OTHER FOUR MATTERS 10 INDIVIDUALLY WERE NOT ANTICIPATED TO TAKE THAT LONG, BUT 11 COLLECTIVELY IT WAS ANTICIPATED THEY'D TAKE A GOOD PART OF THE 12 MORNING. 13 SO IT'S NOW 11:37 AND WE'RE JUST NOW READY TO HEAR 14 THIS MATTER. 15 PERHAPS, FOR PART OF THIS MORNING BUT CERTAINLY THIS 16 AFTERNOON, BUT IF WE DID NOT CONCLUDE THE HEARING IN THE GARY 17 MATTER, THEN I INDICATED THAT WITH A WAIVER OF HIS RIGHT TO A 18 CONTINUOUS PRELIMINARY EXAMINATION I WOULD BE ABLE TO HEAR THE 19 MATTER FURTHER ON MONDAY, MONDAY MORNING AT 9:00. 20 JURY RETURNING FOR SOME BRIEF INSTRUCTIONS AND THEN CLOSING 21 ARGUMENTS, AND I EXPECT THE ARGUMENTS WILL CONSUME A GOOD PART 22 OF THE MORNING ON MONDAY, BUT THEN I'D BE READY TO RETURN TO 23 AND COMPLETE THE HEARING ON MR. GARY. 24 WE DID DISCUSS THE COURT'S AVAILABILITY, I DO HAVE A I THINK COUNSEL INDICATED THAT IF THAT TURNED OUT TO 25 BE THE SITUATION THAT THAT WOULD BE ACCEPTABLE TO THEM AND 26 MR. GARY WOULD WAIVE HIS RIGHT TO A CONTINUOUS PRELIMINARY 27 EXAMINATION. 28 THE TWO OTHER COUNSEL WHO JUST IDENTIFIED THEMSELVES Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 3 1 ARE HERE AS COUNSEL FOR A COUPLE OF POTENTIAL WITNESSES TO 2 PROVIDE THEM COUNSEL AND BE PRESENT DURING THEIR TESTIMONY IN 3 TERMS OF THEIR OWN PRIVILEGES AGAINST SELF-INCRIMINATION. 4 ONE WITNESS IS, I THINK, A JUVENILE. 5 THOUGHT WE SHOULD CONCENTRATE ON TAKING THE TESTIMONY OF THE 6 WITNESSES SO AS TO NOT INCONVENIENCE THEM AND COUNSEL MORE 7 THAN NECESSARY. 8 9 AND AND I INDICATED THAT I I HAVE READ THE NOTICE OF MOTION AND MOTION TO SUPPRESS EVIDENCE PURSUANT TO 1538.5(F) AND 1546 FILED BY 10 MR. DUDLEY ON BEHALF OF MR. GARY. 11 BUT HAVEN'T REALLY -- JUST SORT OF BEGUN TO READ THAT MATTER, 12 THE PEOPLE'S OPPOSITION TO THE MOTION WHICH WAS FILED ON 13 JUNE 8TH BY MR. DOYLE ON BEHALF OF THE PEOPLE. 14 COMPLETE THAT READING AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, BUT I WANT YOU TO 15 KNOW THAT I -- THAT'S THE STATUS OF MY READING IN TERMS OF THE 16 1538.5. 17 18 AND I HAVE BEGUN TO READ I WILL WHICH WITNESS, MR. DOYLE, WHICH WITNESS WOULD YOU INTEND TO CALL AS YOUR FIRST WITNESS? 19 MR. DOYLE: THE MINOR WITNESS, YOUR HONOR. 20 THE COURT: THE MINOR WITNESS. 21 IT'S NOW 20 MINUTES TO 12:00. 22 WITNESS, YOU HAVE A COUPLE OF MOTIONS TO PRESENT TO THE COURT. 23 WE DID DISCUSS THOSE MOTIONS INFORMALLY EARLY THIS MORNING, 24 BUT I THINK NOW WOULD BE AN APPROPRIATE TIME TO PUT YOUR 25 MOTIONS ON THE RECORD. ALL RIGHT. OKAY. COUNSEL ON BEHALF OF THE MINOR 26 MS. PASTORE: 27 MY FIRST REQUEST IS THAT WHEN SHE COMES INTO COURT TO 28 THANK YOU. TESTIFY THAT SHE BE UNSHACKLED. Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) SHE IS A JUVENILE. THERE'S 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 4 1 CASE LAW ON THIS POINT THAT UNLESS THERE'S A SPECIFIC SHOWING 2 FOR A NEED FOR SHACKLING, THE COURT SHOULD UN -- ORDER THAT 3 SHE BE UNSHACKLED. 4 THE COURT, THE LINE OF CASES IN JUVENILE LAW ARE MORE FOR THE 5 PSYCHOLOGY REASONS. 6 BE SHACKLED IN PUBLIC AND SO I'M ASKING. 7 UNDERSTANDING IN SPEAKING WITH THE D.A.I., AS WELL AS YOUR 8 SHERIFF DEPUTY, SHE'S NOT PRESENTING ANY PROBLEMS. 9 A FLIGHT RISK. 10 AND I UNDERSTAND, IT'S NOT TO PREJUDICE IT CAN BE VERY DAMAGING TO A JUVENILE TO IT'S MY SHE'S NOT SO I WOULD ASK THAT SHE BE UNSHACKLED. AND IN ADDITION, DURING HER TESTIMONY, I WOULD ASK 11 THAT THE COURTROOM BE CLEARED OF EVERYONE EXCEPT ESSENTIAL 12 PERSONNEL. 13 COUPLE OF LAW CLERKS THAT ARE INTERESTED, AND SHE SHOOK HER 14 HEAD VIOLENTLY AND SAID THAT IT'S HER WISH THAT NOBODY BE HERE 15 UNLESS THEY NEED TO BE HERE. SHE HAS AN ADVOCATE. 16 REQUESTING THAT SHE BE HERE. I THINK COUNSEL FOR THE OTHER 17 WITNESS CERTAINLY NEEDS TO BE HERE AND I NEED TO BE HERE, BUT 18 I'M GOING TO ASK THAT EVERYBODY ELSE NOT AND ESPECIALLY GIVEN 19 THE NATURE OF HER TESTIMONY AND THE FACT THAT SHE IS AN 20 ALLEGED SEXUAL ASSAULT VICTIM AND A JUVENILE. I SPECIFICALLY ASKED HER. I TOLD HER THERE'S A 21 THE COURT: MR. DOYLE. 22 MR. DOYLE: SUBMITTED, YOUR HONOR. SHE'S I JUST ASK MY 23 PARALEGAL, PERHAPS, BE ABLE TO COME IN AND OUT FOR WITNESS 24 SCHEDULING, IF THAT'S NECESSARY. 25 MS. PASTORE: 26 THE COURT: AND THAT'S FINE. ALL RIGHT. ALL RIGHT. MR. BAILIFF, IS 27 THAT CORRECT THERE'S NO -- YOUR DEPARTMENT TAKE ANY POSITION 28 THAT SHE NEEDS TO BE SHACKLED? Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 5 1 2 THE BAILIFF: UP TO YOU, JUDGE. THE DEPUTY THAT'S WITH HER RIGHT NOW DIDN'T SAY SHE'S BEEN ANY PROBLEM. 3 THE COURT: THANK YOU. 4 ALL RIGHT. WELL, I GRANT THAT MOTION THAT SHE NOT BE 5 SHACKLED WHILE SHE'S IN THE COURTROOM, GRANT THAT. 6 THE MOTION CONCERNING THE CLOSING OF THE COURTROOM WITH THE 7 EXCEPTION OF THE ESSENTIAL PERSONNEL JUST IDENTIFIED. 8 9 ALL RIGHT. I'LL GRANT I'M READY TO -- I DO HAVE A MEETING, CONTINUING EDUCATION MEETING, OVER THE LUNCH HOUR THAT I WOULD 10 LIKE TO ATTEND. 11 THAN 12:00 AND MAYBE EVEN A COUPLE OF MINUTES EARLIER. 12 MEETING REQUIRES -- IT'S NOT HERE IN THE COURTHOUSE. 13 NEARBY. 14 UNDERSTANDING, I'M WILLING TO GET UNDERWAY FOR ABOUT 10 15 MINUTES PROBABLY IF YOU THINK THAT'S WORTHWHILE OR WE CAN -- 16 SO WE'RE GOING TO RECESS, I THINK, NO LATER SO I NEED A LITTLE BIT OF TRAVEL TIME. MS. PASTORE: THE IT'S WITH THAT WELL, I ALSO KNOW -- I KNOW SHE'S GOING 17 TO INVOKE AND I THINK THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY WANTS THAT ON THE 18 RECORD. SO WE CAN TAKE OF -- 19 THE COURT: TAKE CARE OF IMMUNITY? 20 MS. PASTORE: 21 THE COURT: 22 MS. PASTORE: 23 THE COURT: YES. MAYBE WE CAN TAKE CARE OF THAT THEN. SURE. YES, WE DID DISCUSS INFORMALLY AND 24 COUNSEL DID INDICATE THAT HER CLIENT WOULD INVOKE, AND 25 MR. DOYLE, I THINK YOU'RE PREPARED THEN TO OFFER A GRANT 26 IMMUNITY. 27 28 IS THAT CORRECT? MR. DOYLE: READY TO GO THROUGH THE PROCESS, YOUR HONOR. Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 6 1 2 THE COURT: WELL, IF WE CAN DO THAT, THEN WE CAN GET INTO THE SUBSTANTIVE ASPECT OF HER TESTIMONY THIS AFTERNOON. 3 MS. PASTORE: 4 THE COURT: 5 THAT'S PERFECT. ALL RIGHT. EVERYBODY EXCEPT FOR THE INDICATED PERSONS IF YOU'LL LEAVE THE COURTROOM, PLEASE. 6 (PAUSE IN PROCEEDINGS.) 7 THE COURT: 8 THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. THAT LEAVES PRESENT IN THE COURTROOM THEN MR. GARY AND HIS COUNSEL, MR. DOYLE AND HIS -- 9 MR. DOYLE: YES, YOUR HONOR. I'D ASK THAT MY 10 INVESTIGATING OFFICER BE DESIGNATED AT THIS TIME. 11 CHRISTINE -- DISTRICT ATTORNEY INVESTIGATOR CHRISTINE PENWELL. 12 13 THE COURT: AND THEN LEFT IN THE COURTROOM WOULD BE THE VICTIM ADVOCATE FOR THE WITNESS. 14 MS. PASTORE: 15 THE COURT: YES. AND THE OTHER TWO PERSONS, COUNSEL, I 16 GUESS, FOR MR. POSNER, MS. BUKOWSKI IS PRESENT PROVIDING WITH 17 THE AMENDMENT COUNSEL, I THINK. 18 AND THE OTHER INDIVIDUAL IN THE COURTROOM? 19 MS. PASTORE: 20 MR. DOYLE: MY PARALEGAL, YOUR HONOR. 21 THE COURT: SO THAT'S ACCEPTABLE TO YOU AS COUNSEL? 22 MS. PASTORE: 23 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MR. DOYLE: YOUR HONOR, AT THIS TIME PEOPLE CALL 24 25 I DON'T KNOW. YES. YOU MAY CALL YOUR FIRST WITNESS. 26 27 THE BAILIFF: 28 THE COURT: Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) THEY'RE BRINGING HER IN THE BACK DOOR. ALL RIGHT. 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 7 1 MS. PASTORE: 2 THE COURT: 3 (COUNSEL AND CLIENT CONFER SOTTO VOCE.) 4 MS. PASTORE: 5 THE CLERK: 6 CAN I JUST HAVE ONE SECOND WITH HER. CERTAINLY. THANK YOU. WE'RE READY. MISS, WOULD YOU PLEASE RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND TO BE SWORN. 7 DO YOU SOLEMNLY STATE THAT THE EVIDENCE YOU SHOULD 8 GIVE IN THIS MATTER SHALL BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND 9 NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH SO HELP YOU GOD? 10 THE WITNESS: 11 THE CLERK: 12 I DO. THANK YOU. WOULD YOU PLEASE STATE YOUR FIRST NAME FOR THE RECORD. 13 THE WITNESS: 14 THE CLERK: 15 THE WITNESS: 16 THE CLERK: . HOW DO YOU SPELL YOUR FIRST NAME? . THANK YOU. 17 18 19 CALLED AS A WITNESS ON BEHALF OF THE PEOPLE, 20 HAVING BEEN FIRST DULY SWORN, TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS: 21 22 23 24 25 DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. DOYLE: Q. GOOD MORNING, . HAVE YOU AND I EVER MET BEFORE? 26 A. NO. 27 Q. DID YOU WANT TO BE HERE TODAY? 28 A. YEAH. Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 8 1 Q. YOU WANT TO BE IN THIS COURTROOM TODAY? 2 A. OH. 3 Q. HOW DID YOU GET HERE? 4 A. I GOT DROVE HERE. 5 Q. WHO DROVE YOU HERE? 6 A. BOB. 7 Q. THE GENTLEMAN TO THE LEFT -- 8 A. YES. 9 Q. -- MR. HINKLEDIRE? 10 A. YES. 11 Q. WHERE DID HE DRIVE YOU FROM? 12 A. G.R.F. 13 Q. WHAT'S G.R.F.? 14 A. A REHAB. 15 Q. IS THAT WHERE YOU'RE LIVING RIGHT NOW? 16 A. YES. 17 Q. WHY ARE YOU LIVING THERE? 18 A. BECAUSE I WENT ON THE RUN. 19 Q. THE RUN FROM WHAT? 20 A. FROM MY HOME. 21 Q. YOU RAN AWAY FROM HOME? 22 A. (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.) 23 Q. IS THAT A "YES"? 24 A. YES. 25 Q. SORRY, 26 NO. THERE'S SOMEBODY TYPING DOWN WHAT YOU SAY AND SHE CAN'T GET THE HEAD NODS. 27 A. IT'S OKAY. 28 Q. DO YOU KNOW THIS GENTLEMAN SEATED OVER HERE ON MY Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 9 1 LEFT WITH THE BLUE JAIL JUMPSUIT? 2 A. YES. 3 Q. HOW DO YOU KNOW HIM? 4 A. FROM FACEBOOK. 5 Q. YOU MET HIM ON FACEBOOK? 6 A. YES. 7 Q. DID HE CONTACT YOU ON FACEBOOK? 8 A. YES. 9 Q. WHEN WAS THAT IF YOU REMEMBER? 10 A. I DON'T REMEMBER. 11 Q. AND WHAT DID HE SAY WHEN HE CONTACTED YOU? 12 MS. PASTORE: SO AT THIS POINT, YOUR HONOR, AFTER 13 DISCUSSING IT WITH MR. DOYLE, I AM GOING, ON BEHALF OF HER, 14 INVOKE HER FIFTH AMENDMENT PRIVILEGES AGAINST 15 SELF-INCRIMINATION. 16 INCRIMINATING, BUT AT SOME POINT SHE'S GOING TO SAY SOMETHING 17 THAT'S INCRIMINATING. 18 19 THE COURT: I KNOW HER NEXT SENTENCE MAY NOT BE ALL RIGHT. YOU HAD A CHANCE TO TALK WITH YOUR ATTORNEY? 20 THE WITNESS: YES. 21 MS. PASTORE: THAT'S ME. 22 THE WITNESS: YES. 23 THE COURT: YES. ALL RIGHT. AND YOU UNDERSTAND THAT 24 YOU CAN REFUSE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTION THAT MIGHT INCRIMINATE 25 YOURSELF? 26 THE WITNESS: 27 THE COURT: 28 THE WITNESS: Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) YES. THAT'S PERSONAL TO YOU? YES. 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 10 1 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. YOU CAN'T REFUSE TO ANSWER 2 QUESTION ON THE GROUNDS IT MIGHT INCRIMINATE SOMEBODY ELSE, 3 BUT YOU CAN ON THE GROUNDS YOU'D BE INCRIMINATING YOURSELF. 4 AND HAS SHE ADVISED YOU TO ASSERT THAT PRIVILEGE WITH RESPECT 5 TO MANY OF THE QUESTIONS THAT SHE THINKS THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY 6 WILL ASK YOU? 7 THE WITNESS: 8 THE COURT: 9 THE WITNESS: 10 THE COURT: YES. AND DO YOU INTEND TO DO SO? YES. AND SHE'S RIGHT -- JUST AN ARM'S LENGTH 11 AWAY FROM YOU THERE AT THE WITNESS STAND, AND CERTAINLY AS WE 12 PROCEED, IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, ANYTHING, YOU WANT TO TALK 13 TO HER, JUST LET ME KNOW THAT AND I'LL CERTAINLY GIVE YOU THAT 14 OPPORTUNITY. 15 ALL RIGHT. MR. DOYLE, I THINK I'M WILLING TO ACCEPT 16 HER, 17 THAT SHE WILL INVOKE HER FIFTH AMENDMENT PRIVILEGE WITH 18 RESPECT TO PROBABLY MOST OF THE QUESTIONS YOU MIGHT ASK HER, 19 AT LEAST MANY OF THEM. 20 STATEMENTS AND HER COUNSEL'S REPRESENTATION MR. DOYLE: SO... UNDERSTOOD, YOUR HONOR. AT THIS TIME I'D 21 LIKE TO PRESENT THE WITNESS WITH WHAT HAS BEEN PREVIOUSLY 22 MARKED AS PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT 1 AND PROVIDE A COPY TO HER 23 COUNSEL, MS. PASTORE. 24 IMMUNITY UNDER PENAL CODE SECTION 1324. 25 26 IT'S A GRANT OF USE AND DERIVATIVE USE AND I HAVE PROVIDED A COPY FOR COUNSEL FOR MR. GARY AS WELL. 27 (EXHIBIT NO. PEOPLE'S 1 RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.) 28 THE COURT: Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) COUNSEL. 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 11 1 2 MS. PASTORE: SO THIS IS THE LETTER THAT WE TALKED ABOUT, OKAY. 3 THE WITNESS: OKAY. 4 MS. PASTORE: THAT'S FINE. 5 YOU. 6 BY MR. DOYLE: 7 Q. 8 9 IT'S SATISFACTORY. THANK AND THEN I'D LIKE TO REASK THE PREVIOUS QUESTION. WHAT DID MR. GARY SAY WHEN HE CONTACTED YOU ON FACEBOOK THE FIRST TIME? 10 A. "HI." 11 Q. AND DID YOU GET INTO SOME KIND OF CONVERSATION WITH 12 HIM OVER FACEBOOK? 13 A. YES. 14 Q. DID YOU KNOW WHO MR. GARY WAS BEFORE HE CONTACTED YOU 15 ON FACEBOOK? 16 A. YES. 17 Q. WHERE DID YOU MEET HIM? 18 A. AT THE TROLLEY. 19 Q. HE MET YOU AT THE TROLLEY? 20 A. NO. 21 Q. WAS THAT AFTER HE CONTACTED YOU ON FACEBOOK OR 22 I SAW HIM AT THE TROLLEY. BEFORE? 23 A. BEFORE. 24 Q. SO YOU ALREADY MET HIM BEFORE YOU STARTED TALKING TO 25 HIM ON FACEBOOK? 26 A. YES. 27 Q. WHAT WERE THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF YOUR MEETING MR. GARY? 28 A. CAN YOU SAY THAT A DIFFERENT WAY? Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 12 1 Q. 2 SURE. THAT WASN'T A VERY GOOD QUESTION. DID YOU AND MR. GARY START HANGING OUT AFTER YOU MET 3 AT TROLLEY? 4 A. NO. 5 Q. WHEN DID YOU START HANGING OUT? 6 7 10 11 THE COURT: ASSUMES A FACT NOT IN EVIDENCE THAT THEY MR. DOYLE: SORRY. DID. 8 9 I'M SORRY. BY MR. DOYLE: Q. DID YOU START HANGING OUT WITH MR. GARY AFTER YOU MET WITH HIM AT THE TROLLEY? 12 A. NO. 13 Q. AT SOME DID YOU START? 14 A. YEAH, AT SOME POINT. 15 Q. WHEN WAS THAT, IF YOU REMEMBER? 16 A. I DON'T REMEMBER. 17 Q. AT SOME POINT DID YOU AND MR. GARY EVER DEVELOP SOME 18 KIND OF ROMANTIC RELATIONSHIP? 19 A. YES. 20 Q. WHEN WAS THAT, IF YOU KNOW? 21 A. I DON'T REMEMBER. 22 Q. HOW OLD ARE YOU, 23 A. 15. 24 Q. WHEN DID YOU -- HOW OLD WERE YOU WHEN YOU STARTED 25 WITH YOUR ROMANTIC RELATIONSHIP WITH MR. GARY? 26 A. FIFTEEN. 27 Q. SO IT WAS RECENTLY? 28 A. YES. Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 13 1 THE COURT: I'M SORRY. 2 THE WITNESS: 3 THE COURT: 4 TO BE SURE I UNDERSTOOD YOU. 5 BY MR. DOYLE: WHAT -- HOW OLD? FIFTEEN. FIFTEEN. FIFTEEN. OKAY. I JUST WANTED 6 Q. DID YOU EVER HAVE SEXUAL RELATIONS WITH MR. GARY? 7 A. YES. 8 Q. WAS THAT WHEN YOU WERE 15 AS WELL? 9 A. YES. 10 Q. DID YOU CARE FOR MR. GARY? 11 A. YES. 12 Q. DO YOU STILL CARE FOR MR. GARY? 13 A. YES. 14 Q. WERE YOU WITH MR. GARY IN A ROMANTIC RELATIONSHIP IN 15 JANUARY OF THIS YEAR? 16 A. YES. 17 Q. AND AT SOME POINT IN JANUARY OF THIS YEAR WERE YOU 18 AWARE OF MR. GARY GETTING ARREST? 19 A. YES. 20 Q. AND DID MR. GARY CONTACT YOU WHEN HE GOT ARRESTED? 21 A. YES. 22 Q. DID HE CALL YOU? 23 A. YES. 24 Q. DO YOU KNOW WHERE HE CALLED YOU FROM? 25 A. NO. 26 Q. WELL, WHERE WAS HE WHEN HE CALLED YOU? 27 A. I DON'T REMEMBER. 28 Q. WAS HE AT HIS HOUSE WHEN HE CALLED YOU WHEN HE WAS Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 14 1 ARRESTED? 2 A. I DON'T REMEMBER. 3 Q. DID YOU SEE HIM AFTER HE CALLED YOU WHEN HE WAS 4 ARRESTED? 5 A. NO. 6 Q. DID YOU SEE HIM AFTER HE WAS ARRESTED? 7 A. NO. 8 Q. AT SOME POINT DID YOU SEE MR. GARY AFTER HE WAS 9 NO. RELEASED FROM JAIL? 10 A. YES. 11 Q. DID YOU TALK TO HIM IN THAT INTERVENING PERIOD WHEN 12 HE WAS IN JAIL AND GOT OUT OF JAIL? 13 A. I DON'T REMEMBER. 14 Q. DID HE CALL YOU? 15 A. YES. 16 Q. WHEN -- WHAT DID YOU TALK ABOUT? 17 A. I DON'T REMEMBER. 18 Q. DID YOU TALK ABOUT A MAN NAMED RON? 19 MR. DUDLEY: 20 THE COURT: 21 MR. DUDLEY: 22 OBJECTION. SHE ANSWERED THE QUESTION. I'M SORRY? ASKED AND ANSWERED. SHE DOESN'T REMEMBER. 23 THE COURT: NO, I DON'T THINK SHE WAS ASKED DIRECTLY 24 REFERRING TO A PERSON BY NAME. 25 BY MR. DOYLE: SO OVERRULED. 26 Q. DID YOU TALK ABOUT A MAN NAMED RON WITH MR. GARY? 27 A. I DON'T REMEMBER. 28 Q. DO YOU KNOW A MAN NAMED RON? Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 15 1 A. YES. 2 Q. HOW DID YOU MEET RON? 3 A. FROM FACEBOOK. 4 Q. AND HOW DID YOU -- DID YOU CONTACT RON OR DID RON 5 CONTACT YOU? 6 A. I CONTACTED HIM. 7 Q. WHY DID YOU CONTACT RON? 8 A. I DON'T KNOW. 9 Q. FOR NO REASON AT ALL? 10 A. YEAH. 11 Q. WAS IT BECAUSE MR. GARY TOLD YOU TO CONTACT RON? 12 A. NO. 13 MR. DUDLEY: 14 THE COURT: 15 OBJECTION. OVERRULED. LEADING. HER ANSWER MAY STAND. BY MR. DOYLE: 16 Q. YOU JUST CONTACTED RON FOR NO REASON AT ALL? 17 A. NO. 18 Q. HOW DID YOU KNOW RON? 19 A. FROM MY FRIENDS. 20 Q. WHAT FRIENDS? 21 A. MY FRIENDS I HANG OUT WITH. 22 Q. IS ONE OF THOSE A GIRLFRIEND BY THE NAME OF 23 A. NO. 24 Q. DO YOU KNOW A 25 A. YES. 26 Q. HOW DO YOU KNOW 27 A. I KNEW HER FROM A LONG TIME AGO. 28 Q. DO YOU KNOW IF MR. GARY KNOWS I KNEW RON BEFORE. Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 16 1 A. DO I KNOW IF HE KNOWS HER? 2 Q. YES. 3 A. YEAH. 4 Q. HOW DOES GARY -- MR. GARY KNOW 5 A. I DON'T KNOW. 6 Q. DO YOU RECALL -- 7 8 THE COURT: IF YOU KNOW? ARE YOU GOING TO MOVE NOW INTO A DIFFERENT TOPIC? 9 MR. DOYLE: YES. 10 THE COURT: THEN WOULD THIS BE A LOGICAL PLACE TO 11 TAKE A BREAK? 12 MR. DOYLE: SURE. 13 THE COURT: IN TERMS OF YOUR EXAMINING, YOUR SUBJECT 14 MATTER OF YOUR QUESTIONS, WOULD NOW BE A -- 15 MR. DOYLE: YES. 16 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. 17 POINT. 18 AT 1:30? YES, FINE, YOUR HONOR. YEAH. WE'LL TAKE THE RECESS AT THIS EITHER -- ANYBODY, COUNSEL, HAVE ANY OTHER APPEARANCES 19 MR. DOYLE: NO, YOUR HONOR. 20 MR. DUDLEY: 21 THE COURT: 22 MR. DUDLEY: 23 MR. DOYLE: YES. 24 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. 25 JUST FOR MY -- SO MY UNDERSTANDING, MR. DOYLE, IS THE YOUR HONOR, I'M FREE. SO WE CAN RESUME AT 1:30 THEN? YES. WE'LL RESUME THEN AT 1:30. 26 WITNESS PRESENTLY ON THE STAND JANE DOE 1 AS IDENTIFIED IN 27 COUNT 1 OR IS SHE JANE DOE 2. 28 MR. DOYLE: Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) JANE DOE 1, YOUR HONOR. 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 17 1 THE COURT: JANE DOE 1, OKAY. 2 MR. DOYLE: AND, YOUR HONOR, MR. POSNER IS OUT IN THE 3 HALLWAY. 4 GIVE HIM A PROJECTED TIME. 5 6 I KNOW HIS COUNSEL IS MEETING. THE COURT: PERHAPS WE COULD WELL, WHAT'S YOUR -- IS HE GOING TO BE YOUR NEXT WITNESS? 7 MR. DOYLE: YES, YOUR HONOR. 8 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. 9 MR. DUDLEY: 10 MR. DOYLE: MAYBE HAVE HIM HERE AT 1:45. 11 THE COURT: OKAY. 12 13 14 HOW MUCH TIME DO YOU HAVE LEFT? YOU THINK WE'LL BE FINISHED WITH THIS WITNESS BY THEN? MR. DOYLE: PROBABLY NOT, BUT I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT HE'S HERE AND READY TO GO. 15 MR. DUDLEY: 16 THE COURT: 17 MR. DOYLE, ANY -- ERR ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION, SURE. ALL RIGHT. MS. BUKOWSKI, ANY PROBLEM WITH YOU BEING BACK? 18 MS. BUKOWSKI: 19 THE COURT: NO PROBLEM, YOUR HONOR. OKAY. DO YOU WANT ME TO HAVE HIM COME IN 20 AND ORDER HIM BACK, MR. DOYLE, OR WILL YOU ACCEPT COUNSEL'S 21 REPRESENTATION? 22 MR. DOYLE: THAT WOULD BE MY PREFERENCE, YOUR HONOR. 23 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. 24 HIM TO COME IN FOR JUST A MOMENT. 25 MS. BUKOWSKI: 26 MS. PASTORE: 27 THE COURT: 28 MS. BUKOWSKI, WOULD YOU ASK YES. I'LL BE BACK AT 1:30, YOUR HONOR. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. MS. BUKOWSKI, YOU WANT TO STATE FOR THE RECORD WHO'S PRESENT NOW? Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 18 1 2 MS. BUKOWSKI: YES, YOUR HONOR. TO MY RIGHT IS MR. RONALD POSNER. 3 THE COURT: THANK YOU. 4 MR. POSNER, WE APPRECIATE YOU BEING HERE THIS 5 MORNING. COUNSEL HAD NO WAY OF KNOWING EXACTLY WHICH 6 DEPARTMENT THE MATTER WOULD BE SENT, AND I ALREADY HAD THREE 7 OR FOUR OTHER SHORTER MATTERS ON MY CALENDAR THIS MORNING. 8 I FELT IT WAS APPROPRIATE TO TAKE CARE OF THOSE MATTERS BEFORE 9 WE GOT TO THIS MATTER. SO SO I'M SORRY THAT WE WEREN'T ABLE TO 10 GET TO YOUR TESTIMONY THIS MORNING. I'M PRETTY CONFIDENT 11 WE'LL GET TO IT SHORTLY AFTER THE LUNCH BREAK, BUT I'LL ORDER 12 YOU TO BE BACK HERE AT 1:45. 13 ANY PROBLEMS WITH YOU BEING BACK HERE AT 1:45? 14 MR. POSNER: 15 16 I'M SUPPOSED TO GO TO MY OFFICE, BUT IF THAT'S THE ONLY TIME, I GUESS I'LL FIGURE IT OUT. THE COURT: WELL, I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY THE BEST 17 SOLUTION. I'M SORRY FOR THE INCONVENIENCE. 18 ORDER YOU BE BACK HERE AT 1:45. 19 THINK WE'LL BE READY FOR YOUR TESTIMONY SHORTLY THEREAFTER AND 20 TRY TO INCONVENIENCE YOU AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE. COUNSEL WILL BE HERE. 21 MR. POSNER: 22 THE COURT: 23 MS. BUKOWSKI: 24 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. 25 MR. DOYLE: NO, YOUR HONOR. 26 THE COURT: THANK YOU. 27 (LUNCH RECESS TAKEN.) 28 Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) ALL RIGHT. I'LL I OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU. ANYTHING ELSE FOR NOW? THANK YOU. -- O0O -- 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 19 1 SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA; FRIDAY, JUNE 10, 2016; 1:36 P.M. 2 -- O0O -- 3 THE COURT: COUNSEL FOR THE WITNESS, ARE THE TWO -- 4 ARE THEY FAMILY OF THE WITNESS? 5 MS. PASTORE: OH, I APOLOGIZE. 6 GRANDPARENTS. 7 COURTROOM AND SHE DOES. 8 9 10 I SPECIFICALLY ASKED IF SHE WANTED THEM IN THE THE COURT: I WANTED TO BE SURE. THAT'S FINE. HERE MOMENTARILY. (OFF THE RECORD.) 12 THE COURT: 13 EXAMINATION OF THE WITNESS. 14 MR. DOYLE: 16 17 I ASSUME THAT WAS THE CASE. SHE WAS IN THE RESTROOM SO SHE'LL BE 11 15 THESE ARE HER MR. DOYLE, YOU MAY CONTINUE WITH YOUR THANK YOU. BY MR. DOYLE: Q. I WANT TO TALK TO YOU, ABOUT RON. HOW OLD IS RON? 18 A. I DON'T KNOW. 19 Q. IS HE OLDER OR YOUNGER GUY? 20 A. OLDER. 21 Q. HOW OLD? 22 A. I DON'T KNOW. 23 Q. IS HE -- WHAT DOES HE LOOK LIKE? 24 A. WHITE. 25 Q. HOW DID YOU MEET HIM? 26 A. THROUGH FACEBOOK. 27 Q. AND DID HE REACH OUT TO YOU OR DID YOU REACH OUT TO 28 HIM? Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 20 1 A. I MESSAGED HIM. 2 Q. WHY? 3 A. BECAUSE... 4 THE COURT: CAN YOU PULL THE MIC JUST A 5 LITTLE BIT CLOSER? THE CHAIR DOESN'T MOVE, BUT THE MIC DOES. 6 SO I WANT TO BE SURE I'M HEARING YOU CORRECTLY. 7 THE WITNESS: 8 THE COURT: 9 THE WITNESS: 10 OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. BECAUSE I NEEDED MONEY. BY MR. DOYLE: 11 Q. WHY DID YOU NEED MONEY? 12 A. BECAUSE I WANTED TO BUY STUFF. 13 Q. DID YOU GET MONEY FROM RON? 14 A. YES. 15 Q. HOW MUCH MONEY DID RON GIVE YOU? 16 A. WHATEVER I ASKED HIM FOR. 17 Q. DID YOU HAVE SEX WITH RON? 18 A. YES. 19 Q. DID HE GIVE YOU MONEY AFTER YOU HAD SEX WITH HIM? 20 A. YEAH. 21 Q. DID HE GIVE YOU CASH? 22 A. YES. 23 Q. DID HE EVER GIVE YOU A MONEY ORDER? 24 A. NO. 25 Q. DID YOU EVER ASK HIM TO BAIL OUT YOUR MOTHER? 26 A. YES. 27 Q. DID HE GIVE YOU MONEY TO BAIL YOUR MOTHER OUT OF 28 YES. JAIL? Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 21 1 A. YES. 2 Q. WHAT DID YOU DO WITH THAT MONEY? 3 A. I BOUGHT STUFF. 4 Q. WHAT DID YOU BUY? 5 A. CLOTHES AND SHOES. 6 Q. IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE YOU BOUGHT WITH THAT MONEY? 7 A. NO. 8 Q. DID YOU -- WHEN YOU SPOKE WITH MR. -- OR WHEN YOU 9 10 SPOKE WITH THE DEFENDANT, MR. GARY, WHILE HE WAS IN JAIL, DO YOU RECALL HIM TELLING YOU TO CONTACT RONALD POSNER? 11 MR. DUDLEY: 12 AREN'T IN EVIDENCE. 13 THE COURT: 14 17 MISSTATES THE FACTS. FACTS WELL, I THINK THE CALL OF THE QUESTION, DOES SHE RECALL HIM ASKING HER THAT. 15 16 OBJECTION. THE WITNESS: SHE MAY ANSWER. CAN YOU REPEAT THE QUESTION? BY MR. DOYLE: Q. DO YOU RECALL THE DEFENDANT, MR. GARY, TELLING YOU TO 18 CONTACT MR. POSNER ON FACEBOOK AND THAT HE WAS A FOR SURE 19 FISH? 20 A. I DON'T -- I DON'T REMEMBER. 21 Q. YOU DON'T REMEMBER THAT? 22 A. I DON'T REMEMBER THAT. 23 Q. DID YOU KNOW ALL THE CALLS AT THE COUNTY JAIL ARE 24 RECORDED AND THAT EVERYTHING YOU SAY ON THEM IS RECORDED? 25 A. YES. 26 Q. SO HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT? 27 A. BECAUSE IT SAYS IT WHEN YOU CALL -- WHEN PEOPLE CALL 28 YOU. Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 22 1 2 Q. AND IS THAT WHAT IT SAID WHEN THE DEFENDANT, MR. GARY, CALLED YOU? 3 A. YEAH. 4 Q. SO WHEN HE CALLED YOU FROM JAIL, YOU KNEW THAT YOUR 5 YES. PHONE CALLS WERE BEING RECORDED? 6 A. YES. 7 Q. SO DO YOU RECALL MR. GARY, THE DEFENDANT, TELLING YOU 8 THAT MR. POSNER WAS A FOR SURE FISH AND THAT YOU SHOULD 9 CONTACT HIM ON FACEBOOK? 10 MR. DUDLEY: OBJECT, YOUR HONOR, AND THIS IS AN 11 ONGOING OBJECTION TO THIS LINE OF QUESTIONING. 12 TO SAY IT ONE TIME SO THE RECORD IS CLEAR. 13 CONVERSATION -- 14 15 THE COURT: AS TO PHONE WELL, I CONSIDER THAT YOU -- I SHOULD SAY FOR THE RECORD I'VE READ THE PLEADINGS ON THE 1538.5 AND SO -- 16 MR. DUDLEY: 17 CONTINUE TO DO IT, YOUR HONOR. 18 19 I'M JUST GOING HEARSAY. I JUST WANT TO MAKE IT. I WON'T FOUNDATION AS WELL AS THE E.S.P.A. SECTION 1546 OF THE PENAL CODE. 20 THE COURT: 21 MR. DUDLEY: 22 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. JUST FOR THE RECORD. OKAY. WELL, I'LL OVERRULE THE HEARSAY 23 OBJECTION BECAUSE -- ASSUMING A LITTLE MORE FOUNDATION'S LAID 24 MAYBE, BUT THAT WILL COME ON THE 1220, BUT I'LL PRESERVE TO 25 YOU, WITHOUT YOUR NEED TO RENEW THE OBJECTION, YOUR 1538.5 26 MOTION AND OBJECTION. 27 28 MR. DUDLEY: THANK YOU. /// Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 23 1 2 3 BY MR. DOYLE: Q. SO YOU DON'T RECALL MR. GARY TELLING YOU THAT MR. POSNER WAS A FOR SURE FISH? 4 A. I DON'T REMEMBER HIM SAYING IT. 5 Q. BUT IT COULD HAVE BEEN SAID? 6 A. YES. 7 Q. DO YOU HAVE ANY REASON TO BELIEVE HE DIDN'T SAY THAT? 8 A. NO. 9 Q. DO YOU RECALL TELLING MR. POSNER -- OR TELLING 10 MR. GARY THAT RON HAD POKED YOU ON FACEBOOK? 11 A. YES. 12 Q. DID RON POKE YOU ON FACEBOOK? 13 A. YES. 14 Q. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? 15 A. IT'S -- CAN YOU, LIKE, REPHRASE IT? 16 Q. WELL, WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO POKE SOMEBODY ON FACEBOOK? 17 A. I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT MEANS. 18 Q. DID HE POKE YOU ON FACEBOOK? 19 A. YES. 20 Q. WHAT DID HE DO? 21 A. HE JUST POKED. 22 THING. 23 Q. COULD YOU DESCRIBE FOR US? 24 A. NO. 25 Q. DO YOU RECALL TELLING MR. GARY THAT YOU WERE TRYING 26 JUST -- HIM -- IT'S LIKE A POKE. IT'S LIKE A I DON'T KNOW. TO ARRANGE A DATE WITH RON? 27 A. YES. 28 Q. WERE YOU TRYING TO ARRANGE A DATE WITH RON? Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 24 1 A. YES. 2 Q. WHY DID YOU WANT TO DATE RON? 3 A. SO I COULD GET MONEY. 4 Q. I'M SORRY? 5 A. SO I COULD GET MONEY. 6 7 THE COURT: I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THAT. BY MR. DOYLE: 8 Q. COULD YOU REPEAT THAT? 9 A. SO I COULD GET MONEY. 10 Q. MONEY? 11 A. YEAH. 12 Q. WHAT IS BACKPAGE? 13 A. IT'S LIKE A PLACE WHERE PEOPLE TRADE THINGS. 14 IT'S LIKE A TRADING THING. 15 Q. DID MR. GARY EVER EXPLAIN TO YOU WHAT BACKPAGE WAS? 16 A. YES. 17 Q. WHAT DID HE EXPLAIN TO YOU BACKPAGE WAS? 18 A. I DON'T REMEMBER. 19 Q. DO YOU EVER RECALL HIM TELLING YOU TO POST ON 20 BACKPAGE? 21 A. YES. 22 Q. AND DID YOU POST ON BACKPAGE? 23 A. YES. 24 Q. WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO POST ON BACKPAGE? 25 A. I DON'T -- I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT MEANS. 26 Q. BUT YOU DID IT AND YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT IT MEANS? 27 A. YEAH. 28 Q. DID YOU POST ANY ADVERTISEMENTS FOR YOURSELF ON Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 25 1 BACKPAGE? 2 A. WHAT DO YOU MEAN? 3 Q. DID YOU POST ANY ADVERTISEMENTS FOR YOURSELF ON 4 BACKPAGE? 5 A. YES. 6 Q. WHAT SECTION OF BACKPAGE DID YOU POST THEM TO? 7 A. I DON'T REMEMBER THE NAMES. 8 Q. DO YOU RECALL MR. GARY TELLING YOU TO POST THEM TO 9 CAN YOU REPHRASE IT? THE FETISH SECTION OF BACKPAGE? 10 A. NO. 11 Q. DO YOU -- 12 A. I DON'T REMEMBER. 13 Q. DO YOU RECALL WHICH SECTION YOU POSTED YOUR 14 ADVERTISEMENTS ON? 15 A. NO. 16 Q. WHO IS 17 THE COURT: COUNSEL FOR THE WITNESS, I -- YOU MAY 18 WANT TO TALK TO YOUR WITNESS. 19 SAYS "I DON'T REMEMBER," AND THE IMMUNITY DOES NOT IMMUNIZE 20 HER FROM PERJURY. 21 HER. 22 HER? I DON'T BELIEVE HER WHEN SHE YOU MAY WANT TO HAVE THAT DISCUSSION WITH YOU WANT TO GO IN THE JURY ROOM SOMEWHERE TO TALK TO 23 MS. PASTORE: 24 (COUNSEL AND THE WITNESS CONFER SOTTO VOCE.) 25 MS. PASTORE: 26 THE COURT: 27 28 NO, NO. WE -- THIS IS FINE. WE'RE READY. THANK YOU. BY MR. DOYLE: Q. Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 26 1 TRUTH AND A LIE? 2 A. YES. 3 Q. AND DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE IMMUNITY AGREEMENT THAT'S 4 BEEN GIVEN TO YOU? 5 A. YES. 6 Q. YOU UNDERSTAND THAT IF YOU TELL THE TRUTH YOU CAN'T 7 BE PROSECUTED FOR WHAT YOU TESTIFIED FOR? 8 A. YES. 9 Q. AND IF YOU LIE, NOT ONLY CAN YOU BE PROSECUTED FOR 10 WHAT YOU TESTIFIED FOR, BUT YOU CAN BE CHARGED WITH PERJURY. 11 DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT? 12 A. YES. 13 Q. AND YOU COULD SPEND ADDITIONAL TIME IN JUVENILE 14 DETENTION BEYOND WHAT YOU'VE ALREADY BEEN GIVEN? 15 A. YES. 16 Q. OKAY. 17 SO WITH THAT UNDERSTANDING, DO YOU RECALL MR. GARY DESCRIBING TO YOU HOW TO POST ON TO BACKPAGE? 18 MR. DUDLEY: 19 THE COURT: 20 THE WITNESS: 21 OBJECTION. ASKED AND ANSWERED. OVERRULED. I ALREADY KNEW HOW TO DO IT. BY MR. DOYLE: 22 Q. HOW DID YOU LEARN HOW TO DO THAT? 23 A. THROUGH MY FRIEND. 24 Q. WHAT DID YOU POST ON BACKPAGE? 25 A. MYSELF. 26 Q. AND WHAT DID YOU ADVERTISE? 27 A. MY BODY. 28 Q. DID MR. GARY EXPRESS ANY INTEREST IN YOU POSTING ON Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 27 1 BACKPAGE? 2 A. CAN YOU SAY IT IN A DIFFERENT WAY? 3 Q. SURE. 4 BACKPAGE? 5 A. YES. 6 Q. WHAT DID HE ASK YOU TO DO? 7 A. I DON'T REMEMBER THE EXACT WORDS. 8 Q. WHAT WAS THE SUBSTANCE OF WHAT HE ASKED YOU TO DO? 9 A. CAN YOU SAY THE DEFINITION OF SUBSTANCE? 10 Q. BASICALLY WHAT DID HE ASK YOU TO DO WITHOUT USING THE 11 DID HE EVER TALK TO YOU ABOUT POSTING ON EXACT WORDS? 12 A. POST ON BACKPAGE. 13 Q. POST YOUR BODY ON BACKPAGE? 14 A. YEAH. 15 Q. WHO IS 16 A. JAMES' GIRLFRIEND. 17 Q. YOU'RE ALSO JAMES' GIRLFRIEND, CORRECT? 18 A. EX-GIRLFRIEND. 19 Q. DID YOU AND JAMES EVER ARGUE ABOUT 20 A. ONCE, YEAH. 21 Q. DID 22 A. I DON'T KNOW. 23 Q. DO YOU RECALL JAMES GARY TELLING YOU THAT 24 EVER POST ON BACKPAGE AS WELL? HAD TO GET -- GOT SLAPPED BUT IT HAD TO HAPPEN? 25 MR. DUDLEY: 26 THE WITNESS: 27 SAYING THAT. 28 /// Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) OBJECTION. HEARSAY. I DON'T REMEMBER. I DON'T REMEMBER HIM 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 28 1 2 BY MR. DOYLE: Q. 3 4 COULD HE HAVE SAID THAT? THE COURT: WELL, ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE, COUNSEL. BY MR. DOYLE: 5 Q. DO YOU HAVE ANY REASON TO BELIEVE HE DIDN'T SAY THAT? 6 A. UM, NO. 7 Q. DO YOU RECALL ASKING WHAT DESCRIPT- -- DID YOU EVER 8 POST FOR ANYONE ELSE ON BACKPAGE? 9 A. MYSELF. 10 Q. DID YOU EVER POST FOR SOMEBODY NAMED 11 A. NO. 12 Q. DID MR. GARY EVER ASK YOU TO POST FOR SOMEBODY NAMED 13 14 MR. DUDLEY: 15 THE COURT: 16 MR. DUDLEY: 17 THE COURT: 18 THE WITNESS: 19 20 21 OBJECTION. HEARSAY. I'M SORRY, HEARSAY? YES. OVERRULED. NO. BY MR. DOYLE: Q. DO YOU RECALL TELLING THE DEFENDANT -- DO YOU RECALL THE DEFENDANT, MR. GARY, ASKING YOU HOW OLD 22 A. YES. 23 Q. AND HOW OLD WAS 24 A. 16. 25 Q. DID YOU TELL THAT TO MR. GARY? 26 A. YES. 27 Q. DID HE TELL YOU WHAT AGE TO POST HER AS? 28 A. NO. Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) IS? 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 29 1 Q. YOU DON'T RECALL HIM TELLING YOU TO POST HER AS 19 2 YEARS OLD? 3 A. NO, I NEVER POSTED HER. 4 Q. BUT DO YOU RECALL HIM TELLING YOU TO POST HER AS 19 5 YEARS OLD? 6 A. NO. 7 THE COURT: 8 MR. DOYLE: WITH A "K" OR "C" OR WHAT? UNLESS I'M SPELLING IT WRONG, 9 10 THE WITNESS: 11 THE COURT: 12 13 THANK YOU. BY MR. DOYLE: Q. 14 DID YOU EVER POST ON CRAIG'S LIST? THE COURT: DID THE WITNESS EVER POST ON CRAIG'S 16 MR. DOYLE: THAT'S CORRECT. 17 THE COURT: OKAY. 18 THE WITNESS: 15 19 LIST? YES. BY MR. DOYLE: 20 Q. DID MR. GARY EVER TELL YOU TO POST ON CRAIG'S LIST? 21 A. NO. 22 Q. DID HE EVER TELL YOU NOT TO FORGET ABOUT POSTING ON 23 CRAIG'S LIST? 24 A. NO. 25 Q. DID MR. GARY EVER EXPLAIN TO YOU A SCREENING PROCESS 26 WHEN SOMEBODY CALLS ABOUT YOUR BACKPAGE POSTING? 27 A. CAN YOU REPEAT THE QUESTION? 28 Q. DID MR. GARY EVER TELL YOU WHAT TO DO WHEN SOMEBODY Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 30 1 CONTACTS YOU ABOUT YOUR BACKPAGE POSTING? 2 A. NO. 3 Q. WHAT DO YOU WHEN SOMEBODY CONTACTS YOU ABOUT YOUR 4 BACKPAGE POSTING? 5 A. I TEXT THEM BACK OR TALK TO THEM. 6 Q. DO YOU EVER TRY TO FIGURE OUT IF THEY'RE A POLICE 7 OFFICER? 8 A. NO. 9 Q. DID YOU EVER -- WHEN MR. GARY WAS IN JAIL, DID YOU 10 EVER TALK TO HIM IN A THREE-WAY CONVERSATION WITH 11 A. YES. 12 Q. WHERE WERE YOU WHEN YOU SPOKE WITH MR. GARY AND 14 A. AT HOME. 15 Q. WHO'S 16 A. I DON'T KNOW. 17 Q. WERE YOU EVER AT 18 A. NO. 19 Q. DID YOU EVER TALK TO ANYONE ABOUT BAILING MR. GARY 13 20 HOUSE? OUT OF JAIL? 21 A. I DON'T REMEMBER. 22 Q. DO YOU RECALL TELLING MR. GARY THAT YOU BAILED 23 SOMEBODY OUT -- THAT YOU TALKED TO SOMEBODY ABOUT BAILING HIM 24 OUT OF JAIL? 25 A. CAN YOU SAY THE QUESTION AGAIN? 26 Q. DID YOU TELL MR. GARY THAT YOU TALKED TO SOMEBODY 27 28 ABOUT BAILING HIM OUT OF JAIL? A. YES. Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 31 1 Q. WHO DID YOU TALK TO? 2 A. MY FRIEND. 3 Q. YOUR FRIEND? 4 A. YEAH. 5 Q. IS THAT 6 A. NO. 7 Q. WHO DID YOU TALK TO ABOUT BAILING MR. GARY OUT? 8 A. MY MOM. 9 Q. DID YOU TELL MR. GARY YOU WERE GOING TO TRY TO GET 10 MONEY FROM RON TO BAIL HIM OUT? 11 A. YES. 12 Q. WERE YOU ABLE TO BAIL HIM OUT? 13 A. YES -- NO -- YEAH. 14 Q. YOU BAILED MR. GARY OUT? 15 A. YES. 16 Q. AND IS THAT WITH THE MONEY YOU GOT FROM RON? 17 A. NO. 18 Q. WHERE DID YOU GET THAT MONEY? 19 A. FROM OTHER PEOPLE. 20 Q. DID YOU GET MONEY FROM RON? 21 A. YES. 22 Q. WERE YOU THE ONE WHO POSTED THE BAIL BOND? 23 A. NO. 24 Q. DID YOU TELL MR. GARY THAT YOU WEREN'T 18 SO YOU 25 YES. I'M NOT 18. NEEDED SOME HELP TO GET SOMEONE TO BAIL HIM OUT? 26 A. I DON'T REMEMBER. 27 Q. DO YOU RECALL HIM TELLING YOU "JUST BAIL ME OUT SO I 28 CAN SKIP STATE, I'M NOT EVEN WAITING FOR THE JUDGE"? Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 32 1 2 3 THE COURT: DID SHE TELL -- BY MR. DOYLE: Q. DO YOU RECALL MR. GARY TELLING YOU THAT? 4 THE COURT: 5 THE WITNESS: 6 7 OH, OKAY. IF HE DID, I DON'T REMEMBER. BY MR. DOYLE: Q. DO YOU RECALL TELLING -- ON JANUARY 24TH OF THIS 8 YEAR, DO YOU RECALL TELLING MR. GARY THAT BOTH YOU AND 9 WERE TRYING TO HOOK UP WITH RON SO THEY CAN GET MONEY TO BAIL 10 HIM OUT? 11 A. NO, I DON'T REMEMBER. 12 Q. DID YOU SAY THAT? 13 14 I DON'T REMEMBER SAYING THAT. DID YOU TELL MR. GARY THAT BOTH AND YOU WERE TRYING TO HOOK UP WITH RON SO YOU CAN GET MONEY TO BAIL HIM OUT? 15 A. YES. 16 Q. WHY DID YOU TELL MR. GARY THAT? 17 A. WHY DID I TELL HIM THAT? 18 Q. YES. 19 IS IT BECAUSE YOU AND WERE TRYING TO HOOK UP WITH RON TO GET MONEY TO BAIL HIM OUT? 20 A. NO. 21 Q. WERE YOU LYING TO MR. GARY THAT THAT'S WHAT YOU WERE 22 DOING? 23 A. YES. 24 Q. YOU WERE LYING TO MR. GARY ABOUT THAT? 25 A. (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.) 26 Q. IS THAT "YES"? 27 A. YES. 28 Q. WHY? Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 33 1 2 A. BECAUSE I WANTED HIM TO THINK THAT I WAS GOING TO BAIL HIM OUT. 3 Q. YOU WANTED HIM TO WHAT? 4 A. TO THINK THAT I WAS GOING TO BAIL HIM OUT. 5 Q. AND, IN FACT, YOU DID BAIL HIM OUT, CORRECT? 6 A. YEAH. 7 Q. SO WHY DID YOU LIE TO HIM ABOUT THE SOURCE OF THE 8 FUNDS? 9 A. 10 OUT SOONER. 11 Q. 12 I'M SORRY. BECAUSE I WANTED HIM TO THINK I WAS GOING TO BAIL HIM DID -- DID MR. GARY DISCUSS WITH YOU HOW MUCH HE THOUGHT RON WOULD GIVE YOU FOR SEX? 13 A. UM, I DON'T REMEMBER. 14 Q. HOW MUCH DID MR. POSNER -- HOW MUCH DID RON POSNER 15 GIVE YOU FOR SEX? 16 A. WHATEVER I ASKED HIM FOR. 17 Q. HOW MUCH DID YOU ASK HIM FOR? 18 A. UM, I THINK $600. 19 Q. EACH TIME? 20 A. YES. 21 Q. AND HOW MANY TIMES DID YOU GET MONEY FROM MR. POSNER 22 FOR SEX? 23 A. THREE TIMES. 24 Q. DO YOU RECALL SPEAKING TO MR. GARY THE DAY BEFORE YOU 25 BAILED HIM OUT TELLING HIM THAT YOU WERE GOING TO BAIL HIM OUT 26 AND THAT YOU WERE GETTING MONEY FROM RON? 27 A. YES. 28 Q. WHERE WERE YOU WHEN YOU MADE THAT CALL? Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 34 1 A. I DON'T REMEMBER. 2 Q. DO YOU RECALL TELLING MR. GARY THAT YOU WERE AT RON'S 3 HOUSE WHEN YOU MADE THAT CALL? 4 A. YES, I -- NO, I DON'T REMEMBER -- YEAH. YES. 5 Q. WERE YOU AT RON'S HOUSE WHEN YOU MADE THE CALL 6 TELLING HIM THAT YOU WERE GETTING MONEY FROM RON AND YOU WERE 7 GOING TO BAIL HIM OUT ON FEBRUARY 3RD THE DAY BEFORE YOU DID 8 BAIL HIM OUT? 9 A. YES. 10 Q. HOW OLD DID YOU TELL MR. POSNER YOU WERE WHEN YOU HAD 11 SEX WITH HIM? 12 A. 18. 13 Q. AND AT SOME POINT DID YOU TELL HIM YOU WERE YOUNGER? 14 A. YES. 15 Q. DID HE HAVE SEX WITH YOU AFTER THAT? 16 A. NO. 17 Q. WHAT DID HE SAY -- NEVER MIND. 18 STRIKE THAT. HOW OLD IS 19 A. SEVENTEEN, I THINK. 20 Q. DO YOU EVER SEE HER OVER AT MR. POSNER'S? 21 A. NO. 22 Q. DID SHE -- DO YOU KNOW IF SHE WENT OVER TO 23 24 25 26 MR. POSNER'S HOUSE? A. NO. MR. DOYLE: THANK YOU. I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER FOR THIS WITNESS. 27 THE COURT: 28 MR. DUDLEY: Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) CROSS-EXAMINATION. YES, YOUR HONOR, JUST A FEW QUESTIONS. 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 35 1 2 CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. DUDLEY: 3 Q. 4 QUESTIONS. 5 GOOD AFTERNOON, JUST A COUPLE FOLLOW-UP MR. DOYLE WAS ASKING YOU A BUNCH OF QUESTIONS ABOUT 6 SOME CONVERSATIONS THAT YOU HAD WITH MY CLIENT. 7 YOU'RE AWARE, THESE CONVERSATIONS THAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT 8 OCCURRED BETWEEN JANUARY 24 AND FEBRUARY 4TH. 9 AND JUST SO DO YOU REMEMBER WHERE YOU WERE ON JANUARY 24TH? 10 A. AT HOME. 11 Q. YOU DON'T REMEMBER WHERE ON JANUARY 24TH? 12 A. AT HOME. 13 Q. AT HOME ALL DAY? 14 A. I THINK SO, YEAH. 15 Q. OKAY. 16 DO YOU REMEMBER WHERE YOU WERE ON FEBRUARY 4TH? 17 A. NO. 18 Q. DO YOU REMEMBER WHERE YOU WERE ON FEBRUARY 3RD? 19 A. NO. 20 Q. DO YOU REMEMBER HAVING ANY SPECIFIC CONVERSATIONS 21 WITH MR. GARY DURING THAT TIME PERIOD? 22 A. YES. 23 Q. OKAY. 24 A. BAILING HIM OUT. 25 Q. BAILING HIM OUT, OKAY. 26 27 28 WHAT DO YOU REMEMBER TALKING ABOUT? DID MR. GARY ASK YOU, ENCOURAGE YOU TO GO HAVE SEX WITH RON IN ORDER TO GET MONEY TO BAIL HIM OUT? A. NO. Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 36 1 Q. CAN YOU VOCALIZE YOUR ANSWER? 2 A. NO. 3 Q. SO YOUR ANSWER IS THAT MR. GARY DID NOT ASK YOU OR 4 ENCOURAGE YOU TO GO HAVE SEX WITH RON POSNER IN ORDER TO GET 5 MONEY TO BAIL HIM OUT, CORRECT? 6 A. YEAH. 7 Q. OKAY. 8 HAD YOU POSTED ON BACKPAGE ON YOUR OWN OR ONLY UNDER THE DIRECTION OF MR. GARY? 9 A. ON MY OWN. 10 Q. AND HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU POSTED ON BACKPAGE? 11 A. I DON'T REMEMBER. 12 Q. MORE THAN ONCE? 13 A. YES. 14 Q. MORE THAN FIVE TIMES? 15 A. YES. 16 Q. MORE THAN 10 TIMES? 17 A. YES, I THINK. 18 Q. AND UNDERSTANDING THAT YOU'RE UNDER A GRANT OF 19 IMMUNITY SO YOU CAN SPEAK CANDIDLY AND HONESTLY ABOUT THIS, 20 WHAT -- DID YOU GET ANY PHONE CALLS FROM THOSE POSTINGS ON 21 BACKPAGE? 22 A. YES. 23 Q. OKAY. 24 AND WHAT DID YOU DO WHEN YOU RESPONDED TO THOSE PHONE CALLS? 25 A. WHAT DID I DO? 26 Q. YES. 27 A. I WENT WITH THE PERSON THAT CALLED ME. 28 Q. OKAY. SO YOU WOULD GO TO A PERSON'S HOUSE OR WHAT? Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 37 1 A. YES. 2 Q. OKAY. 3 HOUSE? 4 A. HAVE SEX WITH THEM. 5 Q. AND WOULD THEY GIVE YOU MONEY TO HAVE SEX? 6 A. YES. 7 Q. OKAY. 8 9 AND WHAT WOULD YOU DO WHEN YOU GOT TO THE THE COURT: COUNSEL, I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO TO MAKE IT SO I CAN HEAR HER, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHETHER 10 SHE'S INTENTIONALLY MAKING IT DIFFICULT, BUT IF YOU WANT TO 11 ADJUST THE MIC OR TELL HER TO SPEAK UP. 12 IS HEARING HER ALL RIGHT. 13 MS. PASTORE: 14 THE COURT: 15 MS. PASTORE: 16 TRYING TO DO THIS, YOUR HONOR. 17 DIFFICULT. 18 OKAY. 19 THE COURT: I GUESS THE REPORTER SHE IS. I'M HAVING DIFFICULTY HEARING HER. I DON'T THINK SHE'S INTENTIONALLY I THINK SHE'S 15. THIS IS SO TRY AND SPEAK RIGHT INTO THE MIC. I DON'T THINK BEING 15 MAKES IT DIFFICULT 20 TO SPEAK UP, COUNSEL. 21 MS. PASTORE: I UNDERSTAND. I THINK IT'S MORE THE 22 SUBJECT MATTER THAT'S DIFFICULT FOR HER TO TALK ABOUT. 23 BY MR. DUDLEY: 24 Q. 25 A SECOND. 26 THAT QUESTION. 27 28 OKAY. LET ME KNOW IF YOU NEED TO STOP FOR I DON'T WANT TO -- LET'S -- LET'S CONTINUE WITH AFTER YOU HAD SEX WITH SOMEONE, THEY PROVIDED YOU MONEY. WHAT DID YOU DID WITH THAT MONEY? Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 38 1 A. I SPENT IT. 2 Q. OKAY. 3 A. CLOTHES. 4 Q. OKAY. 5 A. SHOES, FOOD, AND GAMES. 6 Q. DID YOU PROVIDE ANY OF THAT MONEY TO MR. GARY? 7 A. NOT ALL THE TIME. 8 Q. OKAY. 9 A. I DIDN'T GIVE HIM MONEY ALL THE TIME. 10 Q. OKAY. 11 A. WHEN HE NEEDED THINGS. 12 Q. OKAY. WHAT DID YOU SPEND IT ON? WHAT ELSE DID YOU SPEND IT ON? EXPLAIN WHAT YOU MEAN BY "NOT ALL THE TIME." AND WHEN WOULD YOU GIVE HIM MONEY? SO LET ME BE CLEAR ON THIS. WHEN YOU WOULD GO 13 HAVE SEX WITH SOMEONE, MR. GARY -- GARY WAS NOT REQUIRING YOU 14 TO GIVE YOU [SIC] ANY PORTION OF THAT EVERY TIME YOU WENT TO 15 HAVE SEX WITH HIM, CORRECT? 16 A. CORRECT. 17 Q. SO MR. GARY WAS NOT YOUR PIMP, CORRECT? 18 MR. DOYLE: OBJECTION. 19 THE COURT: YEAH. 20 21 22 23 SUSTAINED. BY MR. DUDLEY: Q. MR. GARY WAS NOT COLLECTING A COMMISSION ON YOUR WORK, CORRECT? A. CORRECT. 24 MR. DOYLE: OBJECTION. 25 THE COURT: YES. 26 27 28 CALLS FOR LEGAL CONCLUSION. VAGUE AS TO TIME. SUSTAINED. BY MR. DUDLEY: Q. YOUR TESTIMONY IS THAT MR. GARY AT NO TIME EVER OBTAINED MONEY FROM YOU HAVING SEX FOR THE SIMPLE FACT THAT Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 39 1 YOU JUST HAD SEX WITH THAT PERSON, CORRECT? 2 MR. DOYLE: OBJECTION. 3 THE COURT: SUSTAINED. 4 THE WITNESS: 5 MISSTATES THE TESTIMONY. CAN YOU, LIKE, SAY IT A DIFFERENT WAY? BY MR. DUDLEY: 6 Q. I'LL REPHRASE THAT. 7 A. OKAY. 8 Q. HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU GONE TO HAVE SEX WITH SOMEONE 9 FOR MONEY? 10 A. I DON'T REMEMBER. 11 Q. OKAY. ON ANY OCCASION THAT YOU WENT TO GO HAVE SEX 12 WITH SOMEONE FOR MONEY, AFTERWARDS DID MR. GARY ASK YOU FOR A 13 PERCENTAGE OF THAT MONEY? 14 A. NO. 15 Q. DID MR. GARY ASSIST YOU ON ANY OF THESE CALLS TO GO 16 HAVE SEX WITH PEOPLE? 17 THE COURT: 18 MR. DUDLEY: 19 THE COURT: 20 21 22 I THINK "ASSIST" IS A LITTLE -OKAY. I'LL REPHRASE THAT. -- VAGUE. BY MR. DUDLEY: Q. DID MR. GARY EVER RESPOND TO ANY OF THESE BACKPAGE ADS THAT YOU POSTED ON BEHALF OF YOU? 23 A. NOT ALL -- NOT ALL OF THEM. 24 Q. OKAY. 25 YOU MEAN? 26 A. NOT ALL OF THE CALLS OR TEXTS. 27 Q. WAS MR. GARY WORKING WITH YOU WHEN YOU WERE WORKING 28 AND WHEN YOU SAY "NOT ALL OF THEM," WHAT DO AS A PROSTITUTE? Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 40 1 A. WHAT DO YOU MEAN WORKING WITH ME? 2 Q. DO YOU UNDERSTAND? 3 4 OKAY. LET ME REPHRASE THAT. WERE MR. GARY AND YOU IN BUSINESS TOGETHER WHEN YOU WERE WORKING AS A PROSTITUTE OR WERE YOU WORKING ON YOUR OWN? 5 A. I WAS WORKING ON MY OWN. 6 MR. DUDLEY: 7 THE COURT: REDIRECT. 8 MR. DOYLE: NONE, YOUR HONOR. 9 THE COURT: MAY THE WITNESS BE EXCUSED? 10 MR. DOYLE: YES. 11 MR. DUDLEY: 12 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. 13 MR. DOYLE: PEOPLE CALL RON POSNER. 14 THE CLERK: SIR, PLEASE RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND TO BE 15 I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER. YES, YOUR HONOR. THANK YOU. SWORN. 16 DO YOU SOLEMNLY STATE THAT THE EVIDENCE YOU SHOULD 17 GIVE IN THIS MATTER SHALL BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND 18 NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH SO HELP YOU GOD? 19 THE WITNESS: 20 THE CLERK: 21 THANK YOU. PLEASE BE SEATED AT THE WITNESS STAND. 22 23 YES. SIR, WOULD YOU PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND SPELL YOUR LAST NAME? 24 THE WITNESS: 25 THE CLERK: 26 /// 27 /// 28 /// Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) RON POSNER. P-O-S-N-E-R. THANK YOU. 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 41 1 RONALD POSNER, 2 CALLED AS A WITNESS ON BEHALF OF THE PEOPLE, 3 HAVING BEEN FIRST DULY SWORN, TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS: 4 5 6 DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. DOYLE: 7 Q. HOW OLD ARE YOU, SIR? 8 A. SEVENTY-FOUR. 9 Q. AND WHAT PART OF TOWN DO YOU LIVE IN? 10 A. BANKERS HILL. 11 Q. AND DID YOU HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO SEE THE YOUNG LADY 12 WHO JUST WENT OUT THE BACK DOOR? 13 A. I DIDN'T SEE HER HERE. 14 Q. HAVE YOU SEEN HER BEFORE? 15 A. YES. 16 Q. AND WHAT NAME DO YOU KNOW HER BY? 17 A. 18 Q. HOW LONG HAVE YOU KNOWN HER? 19 A. ABOUT, I DON'T KNOW, THREE OR FOUR MONTHS. 20 MS. BUKOWSKI: YOUR HONOR, AT THIS POINT I WOULD LIKE 21 TO ADVISE MY CLIENT TO PLEAD THE FIFTH AMENDMENT AND NOT 22 ANSWER ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS REGARDING THIS WITNESS. 23 THE WITNESS: 24 THE COURT: 25 THE WITNESS: 26 MR. DOYLE: OKAY. DO YOU INTEND TO FOLLOW HER ADVICE? YES. YOUR HONOR, AT THIS TIME I'D LIKE TO 27 PRESENT MR. POSNER WITH WHAT'S BEEN MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 28 EXHIBIT 2. SWITCH THOSE OUT FOR YOU, SIR. Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) I PROVIDED A COPY 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 42 1 TO HIS COUNSEL AND ONE TO COUNSEL FOR MR. GARY. IT IS AN 2 IMMUNITY AGREEMENT UNDER PENAL CODE SECTION 1324 GRANTING TO 3 MR. POSNER USE AND DERIVATIVE USE IMMUNITY FOR ANY OF HIS 4 TESTIMONY HERE TODAY. 5 TESTIMONY. 6 HE CANNOT BE PROSECUTED ON THE BASIS OF ANYTHING HE SAYS HERE 7 TODAY AS LONG AS HIS TESTIMONY IS TRUTHFUL. IT'S CONDITIONED ON HIS TRUTHFUL AND AS I'M SURE HIS ATTORNEY HAS EXPLAINED TO HIM, 8 (EXHIBIT NO. PEOPLE'S 2 RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.) 9 THE COURT: COUNSEL. 10 MS. BUKOWSKI: YES, YOUR HONOR. 11 CLIENT REGARDING THIS IMMUNITY. 12 THE COURT: THANK YOU. 13 ALL RIGHT. YOU MAY PROCEED. 14 I HAVE ADVISED MY BY MR. DOYLE: 15 Q. HOW DID YOU MEET 16 A. SHE APPROACHED ME ON FACEBOOK. 17 Q. AND WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY APPROACHED YOU? 18 A. SHE SENT ME A MESSAGE. 19 Q. DID YOU RESPOND TO THAT MESSAGE? 20 A. YES. 21 Q. DID THE TWO OF HAVE A CONVERSATION OVER FACEBOOK? 22 A. VERY BRIEFLY, YES. 23 Q. WHAT WAS THE SUBSTANCE OF THE CONVERSATION? 24 A. SHE WANTED TO GET TOGETHER. 25 Q. AND DID YOU WANT TO GET TOGETHER WITH HER? 26 A. EVENTUALLY I DID. 27 Q. AT SOME POINT YOU GOT TOGETHER WITH HER? 28 A. YES. Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 43 1 Q. WHERE WAS THAT? 2 A. I THINK AROUND TOWN MAYBE FOR LUNCH OR DINNER. 3 CAN'T REMEMBER EXACTLY. I AND THEN EVENTUALLY MY APARTMENT. 4 Q. AT YOUR APARTMENT? 5 A. EVENTUALLY, YES. 6 Q. AND DID THE TWO OF EVER HAVE SEXUAL RELATIONS? 7 A. YES. 8 Q. ABOUT HOW MANY TIMES? 9 A. TWO OR THREE. 10 Q. DID YOU EVER GIVE MONEY TO HER? 11 A. YES. SHE ASKED ME TO HELP HER GET HER MOM OUT OF 12 JAIL, AND I GAVE HER -- SHE NEEDED BAIL MONEY AND I GAVE HER 13 THAT MONEY. 14 Q. 15 ABOUT HOW MUCH MONEY DID YOU GIVE HER OVER THE COURSE OF YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH HER? 16 A. PROBABLY 5- OR $600. 17 Q. DID YOU EVER GIVE HER A MONEY ORDER? 18 A. I MAY HAVE GIVEN HER WESTERN UNION. 19 REMEMBER. 20 Q. DO YOU REMEMBER WHEN THAT WAS? 21 A. DURING THE COURSE OF KNOWING HER. 22 Q. WHO DID YOU MAKE THIS WESTERN UNION MONEY ORDER OUT 24 A. PROBABLY TO HER. 25 Q. DO YOU RECALL -- OH, I'M SORRY. 23 I DON'T TO? 26 I DON'T REMEMBER EXACTLY. DO YOU KNOW ANOTHER PERSON BY THE NAME OF 27 A. YES. 28 Q. HOW DID YOU MEET Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 44 1 A. THROUGH ONE OF HER FRIENDS. 2 Q. WHOSE FRIENDS? 3 A. ONE OF 4 Q. AND -- 5 A. ACTUALLY, HER SISTER'S FRIEND, I THINK. 6 Q. 7 A. YES. 8 Q. AND WHAT DOES 9 A. SHE'S PROBABLY ABOUT 5'2, BLACK HAIR. 10 Q. YOUNGER? 11 A. YEAH, YOUNGER LOOKING. 12 Q. DID YOU EVER HAVE SEX WITH 13 A. YES. 14 Q. ABOUT ON HOW MANY OCCASIONS? 15 A. A FEW. 16 Q. DID YOU GIVE HER MONEY? 17 A. YES, A LITTLE BIT. 18 Q. AND AT SOME POINT DID YOU EVER GIVE HER A MONEY 19 ORDER? 20 A. WESTERN UNION. 21 Q. WHO WAS THAT MADE OUT TO? 22 A. IT WAS MADE OUT TO -- SHE DIDN'T HAVE AN I.D. SO I FRIENDS. SISTER'S FRIENDS? LOOK LIKE? 23 THINK IT WAS MADE OUT TO GARY DAVID OR DAVID GARY -- I CAN'T 24 REMEMBER EXACTLY -- AND MAYBE ONE OTHER PERSON. 25 26 Q. AND WHY DID YOU MAKE THE MONEY ORDER OUT TO THIS GARY PERSON? 27 A. BECAUSE SHE DIDN'T HAVE AN I.D. AND SHE ASKED ME TO. 28 Q. DID YOU KNOW THAT NAME? Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 45 1 A. NO. 2 Q. WHO PROVIDED THAT NAME TO YOU? 3 A. SHE DID. 4 Q. DID 5 A. HER MOTHER. 6 Q. AND DID -- 7 A. THAT'S WHAT SHE TOLD ME. 8 Q. DID YOU GIVE HER MONEY TO BAIL HER MOTHER OUT? 9 A. YES. 10 Q. ABOUT HOW MUCH MONEY? 11 A. I THINK IT WAS AROUND 4- OR $500. 12 Q. HOW OLD DID 13 DID. TELL YOU WHO SHE WANTED TO BAIL OUT? TELL YOU SHE WAS WHEN YOU FIRST MET HER? 14 A. 18. 15 Q. AND HOW OLD DID 16 TELL YOU SHE WAS WHEN YOU FIRST MET HER? 17 A. 19. 18 Q. AT SOME POINT DID 19 DIFFERENT? 20 A. TELL YOU SOMETHING NO. 21 MR. DOYLE: THANK YOU. I HAVE NO FURTHER QUESTIONS. 22 THE COURT: CROSS-EXAMINATION. 23 MR. DUDLEY: YES, YOUR HONOR. 24 25 26 CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. DUDLEY: 27 Q. GOOD AFTERNOON, MR. POSNER. 28 A. GOOD AFTERNOON. Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 46 1 2 Q. YOU UNDERSTAND THE IMMUNITY LETTER THAT YOU RECEIVED FROM THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE? 3 A. YES. 4 Q. OKAY. YOU UNDERSTAND THAT EVERYTHING THAT YOU 5 TESTIFY TODAY TO CANNOT BE USED FOR A PROSECUTION AGAINST YOU 6 FOR PROSTITUTION, SOLICITATION FOR PROSTITUTION, OR UNLAWFUL 7 SEX INTERCOURSE WITH A MINOR. YOU UNDERSTAND THAT? 8 A. YES. 9 Q. SO YOU'VE ALREADY TESTIFIED THAT YOU HAD SEX WITH A 10 YOUNG WOMAN NAMED 11 OCCASIONS? 12 A. YES. 13 Q. CORRECT? 14 A. YES. 15 Q. AND YOU HAD SEX WITH AN INDIVIDUAL NAMED 16 ON A COUPLE OF OCCASIONS AS WELL, CORRECT? 17 A. YES. 18 Q. OKAY. 19 ON SEVERAL OCCASIONS, TWO OR THREE DID YOU ALSO HAVE SEX WITH ANOTHER AFRICAN-AMERICAN FEMALE NAMED 20 A. 21 MENTIONED. 22 Q. HAVE YOU EVER BEEN CONVICTED OF A FELONY? 23 A. NO. 24 Q. HAVE YOU EVER BEEN INVESTIGATED FOR HAVING SEX WITH 25 26 THAT NAME DOESN'T SOUND FAMILIAR. JUST THE TWO YOU MINORS? A. NO. 27 MR. DOYLE: 28 MR. DUDLEY: Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) OBJECTION. CALLS FOR SPECULATION. IF HE KNOWS. 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 47 1 2 THE COURT: 5 6 WITH THAT -- WITH THAT QUALIFICATION, IF YOU KNOW, YOU MAY ANSWER. 3 4 ALL RIGHT. THE WITNESS: NO. BY MR. DUDLEY: Q. HAVE YOU EVER SPOKEN TO A POLICE OFFICER ABOUT AN ALLEGATION THAT YOU SLEPT -- HAD SEX WITH A MINOR? 7 A. NOT ON THAT PARTICULAR POINT, NO. 8 Q. ASIDE FROM THESE TWO INSTANCES WHERE -- OR THESE TWO 9 10 YOUNG WOMAN THAT YOU ADMIT TO HAVING SEX WITH, HAVE YOU HAD SEX WITH OTHER MINORS? 11 A. NO. 12 Q. SO LET'S GO INTO THE MANNER IN WHICH YOU MET THESE 13 TWO YOUNG LADIES. 14 ONE, YOU MET VIA A FRIEND OF HERS, CORRECT? 15 A. YES. 16 Q. AND WHAT WAS HER FRIEND'S NAME? 17 A. 18 Q. 19 A. YES. 20 Q. AND HOW DID YOU KNOW 21 A. JUST SOCIALLY. 22 Q. WHERE DID YOU MEET 23 A. JUST SOCIALLY AROUND TOWN. 24 Q. DID YOU MEET HER AT THE BAR? 25 A. NO. 26 Q. DID YOU MEET HER AT A BRIDGE CLUB MEETING? 27 A. NO, JUST MUTUAL FRIENDS. 28 Q. AND HOW LONG HAVE YOU KNOWN Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 48 1 A. A COUPLE YEARS. 2 Q. AND HOW DID A. SHE SAID, "I'D LIKE YOU TO MEET A FRIEND OF MINE," HAPPEN TO INTRODUCE YOU TO 3 4 5 AND SHE BROUGHT HER OVER TO MEET ME. 6 Q. WHY DID SHE SAY SHE WANTED HER -- 7 A. SHE DIDN'T HAVE A REASON. 8 9 TO MEET YOU? SHE JUST SAID, "LET'S GET TOGETHER WITH SOME OF MY FRIENDS." Q. 10 WAS THE IMPETUS FOR INTRODUCING YOU TO A PLATONIC RELATIONSHIP OR A SEXUAL RELATIONSHIP? 11 MR. DOYLE: OBJECTION. 12 THE COURT: THAT CALLS FOR SPECULATION, YES. 13 SUSTAINED. 14 BY MR. DUDLEY: 15 16 Q. ALL RIGHT. HOW SOON AFTER YOU MET DID YOU HAVE SEX WITH HER? 17 A. 18 MONTH. 19 Q. 20 WITH HER? 21 A. NO. 22 Q. OKAY. 23 CALLS FOR SPECULATION. I DON'T REMEMBER EXACTLY. MAYBE THREE WEEKS, A I DON'T REMEMBER EXACTLY. DID SHE ASK YOU FOR MONEY FOR SEX BEFORE YOU HAD SEX DID YOU OFFER HER MONEY FOR SEX BEFORE YOU HAD SEX WITH HER? 24 A. NO. 25 Q. HAVE -- ASIDE FROM THESE TWO WOMAN YOU'VE ALREADY 26 DESCRIBED, HAVE YOU PROVIDED MONEY FOR SEX -- YOU KNOW YOU 27 HAVE IMMUNITY HERE -- PROVIDED MONEY FOR SEX WITH ANY OTHER 28 WOMAN, BESIDES THOSE TWO WOMEN? Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 49 1 A. IN MY LIFE? 2 Q. YES. 3 A. PROBABLY IN MY LIFE, YES. 4 Q. OKAY. 5 LET'S SAY IN THE LAST TWO YEARS, HOW MANY OTHER WOMEN? 6 A. MAYBE ONE OR TWO. 7 Q. OKAY. WERE THE SIMILARITIES SIMILAR TO THAT, WHERE 8 THAT YOU DID NOT -- LET ME FINISH THE QUESTION -- THAT YOU DID 9 NOT PROVIDE THEM MONEY UNTIL AFTER YOU HAD SEX? 10 A. YES. 11 Q. AND THERE WAS NO DISCUSSION OF MONEY BEING EXCHANGED 12 BEFORE SEX? 13 A. THAT'S TRUE, YES. 14 Q. SO EVERY TIME IT WAS "I'M GOING TO COMPENSATE YOU 15 AFTERWARDS," CORRECT? 16 A. 17 AFTERWARDS. 18 Q. DID THEY ASK YOU FOR SPENDING MONEY BEFORE? 19 A. AFTER. 20 Q. DID THEY EVER ASK YOU FOR SPENDING MONEY BEFORE THEY 21 NOT EXACTLY. IT WAS "CAN I HAVE SOME SPENDING MONEY" HAD SEX? 22 A. NO, AFTER. 23 Q. SO NONE OF THESE YOUNG WOMEN YOU MET EVER ASKED YOU 24 AFTER. FOR SPENDING MONEY BEFORE YOU HAD SEX, CORRECT? 25 A. CORRECT. 26 Q. THEY ONLY ASKED YOU FOR SPENDING MONEY AFTER YOU HAD 27 28 SEX? A. YES. Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 50 1 Q. DID YOU HAVE ANY SENSE WITHIN YOUR OWN FRAME OF MIND 2 BASED ON YOUR LIFE EXPERIENCE THAT THESE WOMEN WERE 3 PROSTITUTES? 4 A. I DIDN'T KNOW THEY WERE EXACTLY THAT, NO. 5 Q. HOW WOULD YOU CHARACTERIZE WHAT THAT RELATIONSHIP WAS 6 THAT YOU HAD WITH THEM? 7 A. WHICH ONES? 8 Q. 9 A. 10 Q. 11 A. SAME. 12 Q. DO YOU ONLY GIVE MONEY TO FEMALE FRIENDS OF YOURS FOR EXAMPLE. JUST FRIENDS BASICALLY. 13 AFTER THEY HAVE SEX WITH YOU? 14 MR. DOYLE: OBJECTION. ARGUMENTATIVE. 15 THE COURT: OVERRULED. YOU MAY ANSWER. 16 THE WITNESS: 17 18 19 ASK AGAIN. BY MR. DUDLEY: Q. DO YOU ONLY GIVE MONEY TO FEMALE FRIENDS OF YOURS AFTER YOU HAVE SEX WITH THEM? 20 A. NOT ALWAYS. 21 Q. OKAY. 22 SAY THAT AGAIN. SO SOMETIMES YOU DO GIVE THEM MONEY BEFORE YOU HAVE SEX WITH THEM, CORRECT? 23 A. NO, AFTER. 24 Q. OKAY. NOT BEFORE, AFTER. I'M CONFUSED. MAYBE I CONFUSED MYSELF ON 25 THAT. 26 D.A.'S OBJECTED TO IT, BUT I THINK THE COURT OVERRULED THE 27 OBJECTION. 28 LET ME ASK THE QUESTION ONE MORE TIME AND I KNOW THE THE QUESTION I WANT TO ASK IS: Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) DO YOU ONLY GIVE 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 51 1 2 3 MONEY TO FEMALE FRIENDS OF YOURS AFTER THEY HAVE SEX WITH YOU? A. WELL, I DON'T GIVE -- I DON'T GIVE THEM ALL MONEY AFTER, BUT NOT BEFORE, IF THAT'S YOUR QUESTION. 4 Q. THAT'S MY QUESTION, OKAY. 5 A. NOT BEFORE, SOMETIMES AFTER, BUT NOT ALWAYS. 6 Q. DO YOU KNOW A WOMAN NAMED 7 A. YES. 8 Q. HOW DO YOU KNOW 9 A. THROUGH SOME MUTUAL FRIENDS. 10 Q. HOW DID YOU MEET 11 A. THROUGH THESE MUTUAL FRIENDS. 12 Q. WHO WERE THESE MUTUAL FRIENDS? 13 A. HER COUSINS. 14 Q. OKAY. 15 A. JUST, YOU KNOW, SOCIALLY. 16 Q. WHERE DID YOU MEET THEM SOCIALLY? 17 A. YOU KNOW, A RESTAURANT. 18 19 WHERE DID YOU MEET HER COUSINS? THERE AGAIN THROUGH MUTUAL FRIENDS. Q. DO YOU HAVE A PROFILE ON ANY DATING SITES ONLINE? 20 MR. DOYLE: OBJECTION. 21 THE COURT: COUNSEL. 22 MR. DUDLEY: RELEVANCE. IT GOES TO -- IT COMES UP IN THE POLICE 23 REPORTS WHETHER MR. POSNER'S ACTION ON DATING SITES ACTUALLY 24 SEEKING OUT YOUNG AFRICAN-AMERICAN FEMALES, AND I BELIEVE IT'S 25 RELEVANT AS TO WHETHER HE'S A PERSON WHO'S INITIATING SOME OF 26 THESE CONTACTS OR NOT. 27 THE COURT: MR. DOYLE. 28 MR. DOYLE: SUBMITTED, YOUR HONOR. Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 52 1 THE COURT: 2 THE WITNESS: 3 ALL RIGHT. OVERRULED. YOU MAY ANSWER. I'M ON ONE SITE. BY MR. DUDLEY: 4 Q. OKAY. WHAT'S THE WEBSITE CALLED? 5 A. PLENTY OF FISH. 6 Q. AND IN YOUR PROFILE DO YOU -- DO YOU ASK -- OR DO YOU 7 INDICATE YOUR INTERESTED IN WITH ONLY A SPECIFIC TYPE OF 8 WOMAN? 9 A. NO. 10 Q. OKAY. 11 12 13 14 SO DOES IT RUN A GAMUT OF AGES THAT YOU'RE INTERESTED IN WOMEN? A. I DON'T REMEMBER EXACTLY WHAT THE PROFILE IS, BUT IT DOESN'T REALLY HAVE ANY DETAILS. Q. DOESN'T IT SUGGEST IN THE PROFILE THAT YOU HAVE TO 15 SORT OF SEE WHAT PEOPLE YOU MIGHT BE INTERESTED IN, WHETHER IT 16 IS VIA AGE, ETHNICITY. 17 A. 18 LIKE THAT. 19 Q. 20 DO YOU RECALL HAVING TO FILL THAT OUT? I THINK IT SAID LIKE, YOU KNOW, 30 TO 45, SOMETHING OKAY. IS THAT THE -- IS THAT THE ONLY BOX YOU CHECKED? 21 A. YES. 22 Q. SO YOU DIDN'T CHECK A BOX FOR ANY WOMAN UNDER THE AGE 23 OF 30? 24 A. NO. 25 Q. OKAY. 26 DID YOU CHECK ANY BOXES IN PARTICULAR TO WHAT WOMEN YOU'D BE INTERESTED IN BY ETHNICITY? 27 A. NO. 28 Q. NONE. SO ALL WOMEN BETWEEN 30 AND 45? Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 53 1 A. PRETTY MUCH, YES. 2 Q. I'LL ASK YOU A QUESTION WORKING AROUND THERE. 3 4 DO YOU HAVE A PARTICULAR INTEREST OR FANCY IN YOUNG AFRICAN-AMERICAN FEMALES? 5 A. YES, I'M INTERESTED. 6 Q. OKAY. 7 A. JUST FRIENDSHIP MOSTLY. 8 Q. WELL, IN A SEXUAL WAY AS WELL? 9 A. OCCASIONALLY. 10 Q. HAVE YOU PAID FOR -- AFTER HAVING SEX WITH YOUNG IN A SEXUAL WAY? 11 AFRICAN-AMERICAN FEMALES, OTHER THAN THE TWO I'VE ALREADY 12 MENTIONED, HAVE YOU PAID ANY OTHER ONES IN YOUR LIFE FOR THAT? 13 A. PAID -- PAID THEM? 14 Q. AFTER YOU HAVE SEX BECAUSE THAT'S YOUR -- THE WAY YOU 15 16 17 WORK. A. I'VE -- WHEN THEY ASK FOR FOOD MONEY OR SOMETHING, I'VE GIVEN IT TO THEM. 18 Q. OKAY. BUT HAVE YOU ON OTHER OCCASIONS? 19 A. YES. 20 Q. OKAY. 21 A. PROBABLY MORE THAN ONE. 22 Q. MORE THAN FIVE? 23 A. MAYBE FIVE -- FIVE OR SIX. 24 Q. AND THOSE OCCURRED IN SAN DIEGO? 25 A. YES. ON ONE OCCASION? 26 MR. DUDLEY: 27 THE COURT: REDIRECT. 28 MR. DOYLE: NONE. Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) YES OR NO. MORE THAN ONE OCCASION? I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER. THANK YOU. 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 54 1 THE COURT: MAY THE WITNESS BE EXCUSED? 2 MR. DOYLE: YES, YOUR HONOR. 3 MR. DUDLEY: 4 THE COURT: 5 THE WITNESS: 6 THE COURT: 7 OKAY. THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. HAVE A NICE WEEKEND. MR. DOYLE: YOUR HONOR, AT THIS TIME PEOPLE CALL DISTRICT ATTORNEY INVESTIGATOR CHRISTINE PENWELL. 12 13 YOU'RE EXCUSED. MS. BUKOWSKI, THANK YOU FOR PROVIDING MS. BUKOWSKI: 10 11 THANK YOU. COUNSEL. 8 9 YES, YOUR HONOR. THE CLERK: MA'AM, PLEASE RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND TO BE SWORN. 14 DO YOU SOLEMNLY STATE THAT THE EVIDENCE YOU SHOULD 15 GIVE IN THIS MATTER SHALL BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND 16 NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH SO HELP YOU GOD? 17 THE WITNESS: 18 THE CLERK: 19 THANK YOU. PLEASE BE SEATED AT THE WITNESS STAND. 20 21 YES. MA'AM, WOULD YOU PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND SPELL YOUR FIRST AND LAST NAME FOR THE RECORD. 22 THE WITNESS: CHRISTINE PENWELL. 23 SPELLED C-H-R-I-S-T-I-N-E. 24 PAUL, E-N-W-E-L-L. 25 THE CLERK: 26 /// 27 /// 28 /// Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) MY FIRST NAME IS MY LAST NAME IS PENWELL. P, AS IN THANK YOU. 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 55 1 CHRISTINE PENWELL, 2 CALLED AS A WITNESS ON BEHALF OF THE PEOPLE, 3 HAVING BEEN FIRST DULY SWORN, TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS: 4 5 6 DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. DOYLE: 7 Q. BY WHOM ARE YOU EMPLOYED? 8 A. THE SAN DIEGO DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. 9 Q. IN WHAT CAPACITY? 10 A. I'M AN INVESTIGATOR. 11 Q. HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN AN INVESTIGATOR WITH THE 12 DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE? 13 A. ABOUT SEVEN MONTHS. 14 Q. BEFORE THAT, DID YOU HAVE PRIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT 15 EXPERIENCE? 16 A. YEAH, APPROXIMATELY 20 YEARS. 17 Q. AND WHERE WAS THAT? 18 A. FIFTEEN OF IT WAS WITH THE CHULA VISTA POLICE 19 DEPARTMENT AND ANOTHER THREE AND A HALF OR MORE -- THREE AND A 20 HALF OR SO WAS WITH THE REDMOND, WASHINGTON, POLICE 21 DEPARTMENT. 22 Q. 23 AND YOUR 15 YEARS WITH CHULA VISTA, WAS THAT AS A SWORN PEACE OFFICER? 24 A. YES. I RETIRE AT THE RANK OF LIEUTENANT. 25 Q. AND WERE YOU ASSIGNED AS A DISTRICT ATTORNEY 26 INVESTIGATOR TO ASSIST IN THE INVESTIGATION OF A CASE WITH A 27 DEFENDANT BY THE NAME OF JAKIER ROSEMAN? 28 A. I DID. Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 56 1 Q. DID YOU MEET WITH THE VICTIM IN THAT CASE? 2 A. I HAVE. 3 Q. AT SOME POINT DID THE VICTIM IN THAT CASE EXPRESS TO 4 YOU SOME KIND OF APPREHENSION ABOUT TESTIFYING? 5 A. THAT'S CORRECT. 6 Q. WHAT DID SHE TELL YOU IN THAT REGARD? 7 A. SHE TOLD ME SHE HAD RECEIVED, FIRST, A FACEBOOK 8 9 10 POSTING FROM A GENTLEMAN BY THE NAME OF JAMES GARY. Q. WHY WAS SHE CONCERNED ABOUT THIS, OR AT LEAST WHAT DID SHE RELAY TO YOU WAS THE CONCERN ABOUT THIS? 11 A. 12 HIS UNCLE. 13 CONSIDERED EACH OTHER RELATIVES. 14 15 16 Q. THE DEFENDANT IN THE CASE REFERRED TO JAMES GARY AS SO THEY WERE GOOD FRIENDS TO THE EXTENT THAT THEY AND WHAT WAS THE SUBSTANCE OF THIS FACEBOOK POST TO THE VICTIM AND IN THE ROSEMAN CASE? A. ACTUALLY, THE POST ITSELF WAS JUST A REQUEST TO GET 17 IN TOUCH WITH HIM, AND THEN SHE RECEIVED A PHONE CALL FROM AN 18 UNKNOWN 916 AREA CODE WHICH IS THE SACRAMENTO AREA. 19 20 21 Q. DID SHE TELL YOU WHETHER OR NOT SHE WAS CONCERNED ABOUT MR. GARY AND HER INVOLVEMENT IN THE ROSEMAN CASE? A. YES. SHE HAD A CONVERSATION WITH MR. GARY. HE WAS 22 THE ONE WHO WAS CALLING FROM THAT UNKNOWN NUMBER. 23 THAT HE KNEW WHERE HER MOTHER LIVED, HE KNEW WHERE HER COUSIN 24 LIVED, AND THAT SHE SHOULD PROBABLY LET JAKIER OR MR. ROSEMAN 25 WIN THE CASE. 26 27 28 Q. AND HE SAID AND THAT'S WHAT THE VICTIM IN THE ROSEMAN CASE TOLD YOU? A. THAT'S CORRECT. Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 57 1 2 Q. AND AS A RESULT OF RECEIVING THAT INFORMATION, DID YOU LOOK INTO MR. GARY? 3 A. I DID. 4 Q. WHAT KIND OF INVESTIGATION INTO MR. GARY DID YOU 5 UNDERTAKE? 6 A. 7 I FOUND OUT THAT MR. GARY WAS -- HAD BEEN ARRESTED, AND I LISTENED TO JAIL CALLS THAT HE HAD MADE. 8 Q. AND DO YOU KNOW WHEN HE WAS ARRESTED? 9 A. HE WAS ARRESTED ON JANUARY 23RD, 9 -- 2016. 10 Q. BY WHOM? 11 A. THE CHULA VISTA POLICE DEPARTMENT. 12 Q. AND AFTER BEING ARRESTED, WERE YOU ABLE TO DETERMINE 13 WHETHER OR NOT MR. GARY WAS PLACED INTO CUSTODY? 14 A. I WAS. 15 Q. HOW DID YOU DO THAT? 16 A. I -- WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I LOOKED HIM UP IN THE 17 BOOKING PROCESS AND FOUND OUT WHAT HIS BOOKING NUMBER WAS, AND 18 THEN LOOKED UNDER HIS BOOKING NUMBER UNDER SECURUS WHICH IS 19 THE SHERIFF'S JAIL CALL SYSTEM. 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. AND WERE YOU ABLE TO -- WHEN DID YOU -- WHEN YOU DID DO THAT? A. AFTER DISCUSSIONS WITH PEOPLE INVOLVED WITH THE CASE, I -- I INITIATED THAT ON FEBRUARY 23RD. Q. AND ON FEBRUARY 23RD WERE YOU ABLE TO DETERMINE WHETHER MR. GARY WAS IN CUSTODY ON THAT DATE? 26 A. ON FEBRUARY 23RD HE WAS NOT IN CUSTODY. 27 Q. HE HAD BEEN RELEASED? 28 A. THAT'S CORRECT. Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 58 1 2 Q. WERE YOU ABLE TO DETERMINE WHEN HE'D BEEN RELEASED FROM THE JANUARY 23RD ARREST? 3 A. HE WAS RELEASED ON FEBRUARY 4TH OF 2016. 4 Q. DURING THE COURSE OF THAT INCARCERATION, DID YOU 5 DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT HE CALLED ANYBODY? 6 A. YES. 7 Q. AND HOW WERE YOU ABLE TO DETERMINE THAT? 8 A. BY LOOKING AT THE SECURUS SYSTEM THROUGH THE 9 10 11 HE -- THERE WERE 52 JAIL CALLS. SAN DIEGO COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE. Q. AND IS THAT SOMETHING YOU HAVE ACCESS TO AS A DISTRICT ATTORNEY INVESTIGATOR? 12 A. I DO. 13 Q. AND IS THAT SOMETHING DISTRICT ATTORNEY INVESTIGATORS 14 COMMONLY UTILIZE IN THE COURSE OF INVESTIGATIONS OF THIS 15 NATURE? 16 A. YES. IT'S A VERY COMMON INVESTIGATIVE TOOL. 17 Q. AND IS THAT SOMETHING YOU'VE DONE IN THE PAST? 18 A. THAT WAS THE FIRST TIME I HAD DONE IT. 19 Q. AND WHEN YOU ACCESSED THAT SYSTEM WERE YOU ABLE TO 20 DETERMINE WHAT CALLS WERE ASSOCIATED WITH MR. GARY'S BOOKING 21 NUMBER? 22 A. YES. 23 Q. HOW WERE YOU ABLE TO DO THAT? 24 A. WELL, THROUGH THE SYSTEM YOU CAN ACTUALLY TYPE IN THE 25 BOOKING NUMBER AND IT WILL -- THE SYSTEM ITSELF WILL GIVE YOU 26 ALL THE CALLS MADE BY THAT PARTICULAR INMATE ASSIGNED TO THAT 27 BOOKING NUMBER FOR THE TIME THAT THEY'RE IN JAIL FOR A 28 SPECIFIC PERIOD OF TIME. Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 59 1 2 Q. AND WERE YOU ABLE TO DO THAT FOR THE PERIOD OF TIME FROM JANUARY 24TH OF THIS YEAR TO FEBRUARY 4TH OF THIS YEAR? 3 A. YES, I WAS. 4 Q. AND AFTER DOING THAT WERE YOU ABLE TO DETERMINE 5 WHETHER OR NOT MR. GARY HAD MADE ANY CALLS? 6 A. YES. 7 Q. AND DID YOU LISTEN TO ALL 52 OF THOSE CALLS? 8 A. I DID. 9 Q. AND WHO WAS THE PRIMARY PERSON CALLED IN THESE 52 10 CALLS? 11 A. TWENTY-EIGHT OF THOSE PHONE CALLS WERE MADE TO A 12 13 14 15 HE HAD MADE 52 CALLS. AS SHE'S REFERRED TO IN THESE PROCEEDINGS. Q. AND HOW WERE YOU ABLE TO ASSOCIATE THE NUMBER THAT WAS CALLED TO A. IN THOSE 28 CALLS? THE SECURUS SYSTEMS GIVES THE NUMBER THAT'S CALLED 16 FROM THE JAIL, AND I TOOK THAT NUMBER AND PUT IT INTO LAW 17 ENFORCEMENT RECORDS DATABASES, SPECIFICALLY ARJIS, AND THE 18 NUMBER CAME BACK ASSIGNED TO 19 20 Q. THE FIRST OF THOSE CALLS ON JANUARY 24 OF 2016 AT 3:25 IN THE MORNING, DID YOU LISTEN TO THAT CALL? 21 A. I DID. 22 Q. NOW, YOU LISTENED TO A LOT OF CALLS. DO YOU RECALL 23 SPECIFICALLY WHAT HAPPENED ON EACH OF THOSE 24 CALLS EVERY 24 SINGLE TIME YOU LISTENED TO THEM? 25 A. NO. 26 Q. BUT DID YOU TAKE SOME KIND OF NOTES TO REMIND 27 YOURSELF AS YOU WERE LISTENING TO THOSE CALLS TO HELP YOU 28 LATER ON? Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 60 1 A. THAT'S CORRECT. 2 Q. DO YOU HAVE THOSE NOTES WITH YOU? 3 A. I DO. 4 Q. AND WERE THOSE NOTES CREATED AT OR ABOUT THE TIME YOU 5 LISTENED TO EACH OF THE CALLS THAT MR. GARY MADE? 6 A. THEY'RE CREATED WHEN I'M LISTENING TO THE CALLS. 7 Q. SO THEY WERE RECORDING YOUR -- WHAT YOU WERE 8 9 10 11 LISTENING TO AS YOU WERE LISTENING TO IT? A. YEAH, THEY'RE ACTUALLY NOTES THAT YOU CAN PUT DOWN JUST BELOW THE CALL ITSELF. Q. REFERRING TO THOSE NOTES, DID YOU HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY 12 TO LISTEN TO A CALL ON JANUARY 24TH OF 2016 AT 5:44 IN THE 13 MORNING? 14 A. YES, I DID. 15 Q. WHO WAS THAT CALL TO? 16 A. I WOULD HAVE TO REFER TO MY NOTES. 17 Q. PLEASE DO. 18 A. AND WHAT TIME ARE YOU REFERRING TO? 19 Q. IT WOULD BE CALL SEVEN AT 5:44 A.M. ON JANUARY 24TH 20 OF 2016. 21 A. THAT PARTICULAR PHONE CALL WAS MADE TO 22 Q. AND DID YOU LISTEN TO THAT CALL? 23 A. I DID. 24 Q. DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE VOICE OF 25 TESTIMONY HERE TODAY? 26 A. YES, I DO. 27 Q. YOU HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO LISTEN TO 28 FROM HER TESTIFY IN YOUR CAPACITY AS INVESTIGATING OFFICER? Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 61 1 A. SEVERAL TIMES, YES. 2 Q. AND DOES THAT APPEAR TO BE THE SAME VOICE THAT YOU 3 HEARD IN THE CONVERSATIONS BETWEEN THE DEFENDANT AND 4 A. YES. 5 Q. ON THAT JANUARY 24TH, 2016, CALL AT 5:45 IN THE 6 MORNING, WAS THERE A CONVERSATION -- WHAT WAS THE SUBSTANCE OF 7 THE CONVERSATION BETWEEN THE DEFENDANT AND 8 9 A. MR. GARY, THE DEFENDANT, TOLD THAT IF SHE BAILED HIM OUT THAT HE WAS GOING TO SKIP STATE UNLESS HE COULD 10 CONVINCE THE VICTIM OF HIS ASSAULT TO DROP THE CHARGES. 11 ASKED HIM IF HE WAS PLANNING ON MOVING TO SACRAMENTO, AND THEN 12 THEY STARTED TALKING ABOUT ANOTHER INDIVIDUAL BY THE NAME OF 13 RON POSNER. 14 CONTACT ON FACEBOOK WITH MR. POSNER, BUT SHE NEEDED TO LOOK 15 OLDER TO GET HIS ATTENTION. 16 17 18 Q. SHE AT THAT TIME GARY TOLD HER THAT SHE SHOULD MAKE WHAT DID HE TELL HER ABOUT PICTURES ON HER FACEBOOK, IF ANY? A. HE TOLD HER THAT RON WAS GOING TO LOOK AT HER 19 FACEBOOK PHOTOS SO SHE SHOULD DELETE ANY PHOTOS THAT MADE HER 20 LOOK TOO YOUNG. 21 22 23 24 25 Q. AND WHAT, IF ANYTHING, DID THE DEFENDANT HAVE TO SAY ABOUT MR. POSNER? A. THE DEFENDANT DESCRIBED MR. POSNER AS A, QUOTE, FOR SURE FISH, END QUOTE. Q. TURNING YOUR ATTENTION NOW TO CALL NUMBER 11, CALL 26 MADE ON JANUARY 24TH OF THIS YEAR AT 9:38 IN THE MORNING. 27 YOU HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO LISTEN TO THAT CALL? 28 A. DID I DID. Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 62 1 Q. AND WHO WAS THAT CALL FROM AND TO? 2 A. THE CALL WAS FROM JAMES GARY MADE TO 3 Q. AND WHAT WAS THE SUBSTANCE OF THAT CALL? 4 A. THE DEFENDANT ASKED IF SHE HAD POKED RON ON FACEBOOK, 5 AND SHE HAD -- TOLD HIM THAT SHE HAD, AND THEN HE DESCRIBED 6 HOW TO SET UP A DATE WITH MR. POSNER. 7 Q. TURNING YOUR ATTENTION NOW TO CALL NUMBER 12, CALL 8 MADE A JANUARY 24TH, 2016, AT 10:11 IN THE MORNING. 9 HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO LISTEN TO THAT CALL? 10 A. I DID. 11 Q. WHO WAS IT FROM AND WHO WAS IT TO? 12 A. IT WAS FROM DID YOU AND SHE SAID THAT RON WAS 13 TEXTING HER, AND SHE ASKED GARY FOR ADVICE ON WHAT TO SAY BACK 14 TO HIM IN REGARDS TO THOSE TEXTS. 15 Q. TURNING YOUR ATTENTION NOW TO CALL 14, A CALL MADE ON 16 JANUARY 24TH OF 2016 AT 10:47 IN THE MORNING. 17 CHANCE TO LISTEN TO THAT CALL? DID YOU HAVE A 18 A. I DID. 19 Q. AND WHO WAS IT FROM AND WHO WAS IT TO? 20 A. IT WAS FROM MR. GARY AND IT WAS TO 21 Q. AND WHAT WAS THE SUBSTANCE OF THAT CALL? 22 A. SHE SAID THAT -- SHE WAS TELLING HIM THAT SHE WAS 23 24 STILL TRYING TO ARRANGE A DATE WITH MR. POSNER. Q. TURNING YOUR ATTENTION NOW TO CALL 18, A CALL MADE ON 25 JANUARY 24TH, 2016, AT 11:58 IN THE MORNING. 26 OPPORTUNITY TO LISTEN TO THAT CALL? 27 A. I DID. 28 Q. WHO WAS IT FROM AND WHO WAS IT TO? Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) DID YOU HAVE AN 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 63 1 2 A. IT WAS FROM -- I'M SORRY. I MISSPOKE. IT WAS FROM JAMES GARY TO 3 Q. AND WHAT WAS THE SUBSTANCE OF THAT CALL? 4 A. HE DESCRIBED TO HOW TO POST ON BACKPAGE, AND 5 HE EXPLAINED HOW A, QUOTE, HOME GIRL OF HIS, END QUOTE, WOULD 6 POST FETISHES TO BACKPAGE, AND THEN ASKED IF SHE KNEW THAT HE 7 HAD TWO FACEBOOK ACCOUNTS. 8 9 10 Q. TURNING YOUR ATTENTION NOW TO CALL 19, THE CALL MADE ON JANUARY 24TH OF 2016 AT 12:47 IN THE AFTERNOON. DID YOU HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO LISTEN TO THAT CALL? 11 A. I DID. 12 Q. AND WHO WAS IT FROM AND WHO WAS IT TO? 13 A. IT WAS FROM JAMES GARY AND IT WAS MADE TO 14 Q. AND WHAT WAS THE SUBSTANCE OF THAT CALL? 15 A. JAMES GARY WAS TALKING ABOUT ANOTHER INDIVIDUAL BY 16 THE NAME OF 17 BUT THAT HAD TO HAPPEN, END QUOTE. 18 DESCRIPTION SHE SHOULD PUT ON BACKPAGE FOR AN INDIVIDUAL BY 19 THE NAME OF 20 HER HOW OLD 21 16 YEARS OLD. 22 TELLS HER TO POST HER AGE AS 19. 23 POST TO CRAIG'S LIST AND EXPLAINS THE SCREENING PROCESS WHEN 24 SOMEONE CALLS ABOUT A BACKPAGE POSTING. 25 Q. AND HE TOLD QUOTE, SHE GOT SLAP THEN ASKED WHAT HE EXPLAINS HOW TO POST TO HER. IS. HE ASKS TOLD MR. GARY THAT HE TOLD HER THAT SHE ACTUALLY LOOKED 12 AND AND HE ALSO REMINDS HER TO TURNING YOUR ATTENTION NOW TO THE 24TH CALL, A CALL 26 MADE ON JANUARY 24TH OF 2016 AT 1:56 IN THE AFTERNOON. 27 YOU HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO LISTEN TO THAT CALL? 28 A. WAS DID I DID. Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 64 1 Q. WHO WERE THE PARTIES TO THAT CALL? 2 A. WELL, THIS WAS ACTUALLY A CALL THAT JAMES GARY HAD 3 MADE TO 4 THAT SHE HAD FOUND 5 EARLIER. 6 AND MR. GARY ASKED HER TO THREE-WAY THE CALL. 7 WOULD HAVE INCLUDED THE THREE OF THEM EXCEPT FOR 8 DIDN'T SPEAK DURING THAT PHONE CALL. 9 AND AT THAT TIME HAD TOLD MR. GARY THE INDIVIDUAL THAT I SPOKE OF SHE HAD FOUND HER TELEPHONE NUMBER THROUGH BACKPAGE. SO THE CALL Q. AND SO YOU WERE ABLE TO HEAR THE DEFENDANT SPEAK WITH 11 A. THAT'S CORRECT. 12 Q. WHAT WAS THE SUBSTANCE OF THE DEFENDANT'S 10 13 14 CONVERSATION WITH A. SAID THAT SHE WAS AT THAT SHE HAD 15 ALREADY SPOKE TO SOMEBODY ABOUT BAILING HIM OUT. 16 GOING TO TRY TO GET MONEY TO BAIL HIM OUT FROM RON. 17 ASSUMING THAT'S RON POSNER. 18 SO SHE NEEDS SOMEONE TO HELP BAIL HIM OUT. 19 QUOTE, JUST BAIL ME OUT SO I CAN SKIP STATE; I'M NOT EVEN 20 WAITING FOR THE JUDGE, END QUOTE. 21 Q. SHE WAS I'M SHE SAID SHE ISN'T 18 YEARS OLD AND HE RESPONDED LATER THAT DAY -- TURNING YOUR ATTENTION TO CALL 25 22 ON JANUARY 24, 2016, AT 2:18 IN THE AFTERNOON. 23 AN OPPORTUNITY TO LISTEN THAT THAT CALL? DID YOU HAVE 24 A. YES. 25 Q. WHO WAS THAT CALL BETWEEN? 26 A. THAT WAS A CALL MADE BY JAMES GARY TO 27 Q. AND WHAT WAS THE SUBSTANCE OF THAT CALL? 28 A. HE EXPLAINED THAT HE -- HE TOLD Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) THAT HE HAD 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 65 1 BOTH 2 HELP BAIL HIM OUT OF JAIL, AND HE THINKS THAT RON WILL PAY UP 3 TO $500. 4 AND 5 SORRY -- NOT 6 PERSON, IS HIS GIRLFRIEND AND 7 GIRLFRIEND. 8 Q. 9 10 AND TRYING TO CONTACT RON FOR A DATE TO DURING THE PHONE CALL IT'S APPARENT THAT DON'T GET ALONG AND THAT -- THAT , BUT IS -- I'M WHO IS ACTUALLY THE SAME THINKS SHE'S HIS TURNING YOUR ATTENTION NOW TO CALL 47, A CALL MADE ON FEBRUARY 3RD OF THIS YEAR AT 9:04 IN THE AFTERNOON, DID YOU HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO LISTEN TO THAT CALL? 11 A. I DID. 12 Q. WHO IS THAT CALL FROM AND WHO IS IT TO? 13 A. A CALL WAS MADE ON FEBRUARY 3RD AND IT WAS FROM 14 15 16 17 JAMES GARY TO Q. AND WHAT DID THE TWO OF THEM DISCUSS DURING THAT CALL? A. IS TELLING HIM THAT SHE IS GOING TO BAIL HIM 18 OUT, AND SHE'S GETTING THE MONEY FROM RON TO DO SO. SHE 19 ACTUALLY -- SHE TOLD GARY THAT SHE HAD TOLD RON THAT SHE 20 NEEDED MONEY TO BAIL HER MOTHER OUT. AND -- 21 Q. DID SHE SAY WHERE SHE WAS AT THE TIME OF THAT CALL? 22 A. YES. 23 THE CALL. 24 Q. SHE SAID SHE WAS AT RON'S HOUSE AT THE TIME OF DID YOU HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO LISTEN TO CALL 49, A 25 CALL MADE ON FEBRUARY 4TH OF 2016 AT 1:00 -- 1:06 IN THE 26 AFTERNOON? 27 A. I DID. 28 Q. AND WHO IS THAT FROM AND WHO IS IT TO? Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 66 1 A. THE PHONE CALL WAS FROM JAMES GARY AND IT WAS MADE TO 3 Q. AND WHAT WAS THE SUBSTANCE OF THAT CALL? 4 A. SHE TOLD HIM THAT SHE HAD TRIED TO BAIL HIM OUT, BUT 2 5 THEY HAD TOLD HER THAT SHE HAD TO WAIT UNTIL AFTER COURT TO DO 6 SO. 7 OFFER SOME TIME. 8 THE ONE EARLIER WITH HE TOLD HER THAT HE HAD GONE TO COURT AND THEY TRIED TO 9 10 11 14 IT WAS THREE-WAY CALL BETWEEN AND JAMES GARY AND GARY'S UNCLE TO COSIGN TO GET HIM OUT OF JAIL, BUT HE COULDN'T DO THAT. Q. 12 13 THERE WAS THEN A THREE-WAY CALL SIMILAR TO AND WHY COULDN'T MR. GARY'S UNCLE COSIGN WITH TO GET HIM OUT OF JAIL? A. BECAUSE HE HIMSELF HAD BAILED OUT AND HE HAD SKIPPED ON HIS BAIL. 15 Q. THAT'S THE UNCLE OF MR. GARY? 16 A. THAT'S CORRECT. 17 Q. AND WHAT DID MR. GARY DO AFTER -- WHAT DID MR. GARY 18 19 SAY AFTER HIS UNCLE TOLD HIM THAT? A. THEY ADDED ANOTHER PERSON TO THE PHONE CALL WHICH WAS 20 MR. GARY -- I BELIEVE IT IS MR. GARY'S GRANDMOTHER, WHICH 21 WOULD HAVE BEEN THE UNCLE'S MOTHER, AND JUST TO SEE IF SHE 22 WOULD BE WILLING TO COSIGN. 23 Q. FINALLY, TURNING YOUR ATTENTION TO CALL NUMBER 51, A 24 CALL MADE ON FEBRUARY 4TH OF 2016 AT 2:00 -- 2:07 IN THE 25 AFTERNOON. 26 CALL? DID YOU HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO LISTEN TO THAT 27 A. I DID. 28 Q. AND WHO -- WHO WAS ON THAT CALL? Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 67 1 A. JAMES GARY HAD CALLED HIS MOTHER. 2 Q. AND WHAT DID THEY DISCUSS? 3 A. SHE TOLD HIM THAT SHE WAS IN THE HOSPITAL BECAUSE 4 THEY THINK -- THEY MEANING HOSPITAL STAFF -- HAD THOUGHT SHE 5 MIGHT HAVE HAD A STROKE. 6 SHE WASN'T IN THE HOSPITAL THE FOLLOWING DAY. HE ASKED HER IF SHE COULD COSIGN IF 7 Q. AND WHAT DID MR. GARY'S MOTHER RESPOND TO HIM? 8 A. MR. GARY'S MOTHER TOLD HIM THAT 9 HAD CALLED HER AND SAID SHE WAS GOING TO BAIL HIM OUT, BUT LATER FOUND OUT 10 THAT HE WAS -- IN HER WORDS -- FOUND OUT ABOUT ALL THE OTHER, 11 QUOTE, BROADS HE WAS MESSING WITH AND WOULD NOT BAIL HIM OUT. 12 Q. AFTER REVIEWING THESE CALLS, DID YOU HAVE AN 13 OPPORTUNITY TO TRY TO IDENTIFY WHO THE WAS IN THOSE 14 CALLS? 15 A. I DID. 16 Q. WERE YOU ABLE TO IDENTIFY THAT INDIVIDUALS? 17 A. I WAS. 18 Q. HOW WERE YOU ABLE TO IDENTIFY THAT INDIVIDUAL? 19 A. WHEN MR. -- WHEN JAMES GARY WAS ARRESTED ON 20 JANUARY 23RD OF 2016, HE WAS IN THE VEHICLE WITH AN INDIVIDUAL 21 BY THE NAME OF 22 HAD MENTIONED THE FACT THAT THE 23 ABOUT IN THE JAIL CALLS WAS THE SAME PERSON HE HAD BEEN 24 ARRESTED WITH. AND EARLIER IN THE JAIL CALLS, HE THAT THEY WERE SPEAKING 25 Q. AND WERE YOU ABLE TO DETERMINE THAT PERSON'S AGE? 26 A. YES. SHE WAS 16. 27 MR. DOYLE: THANK YOU. 28 THE COURT: HOW LONG DO YOU THINK YOUR CROSS WILL BE? Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) I HAVE NO FURTHER QUESTIONS. 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 68 1 MR. DUDLEY: IT'S GOING TO BE SHORT, YOUR HONOR. 2 THE COURT: 3 MR. DUDLEY: 4 THE COURT: 5 THE REPORTER: 6 THE COURT: I'M SORRY. VERY SHORT. I THINK 10 MINUTES. CAN YOU GO ANOTHER 10 MINUTES? YES. ALL RIGHT. 7 8 9 CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. DUDLEY: 10 Q. GOOD AFTERNOON. 11 A. YOU MAY. 12 Q. ALL RIGHT. CAN I CALL YOU DETECTIVE? FIRST THINGS FIRST. ON THOSE JAILHOUSE 13 CALLS THAT YOU LISTEN TO, YOU HEARD A RECORDING OF THE 14 TELEPHONE CALL, CORRECT? 15 A. THAT IS CORRECT. 16 Q. ALSO IN THAT SAME SYSTEM YOU WERE PROVIDED A PHONE 17 18 19 20 21 NUMBER THAT WAS DIALED OUT FROM THE JAIL; IS THAT CORRECT? A. YES, THAT'S CORRECT. THE NUMBER THAT THE INMATE DIALS IS ALSO LISTED ON THE JAIL CALLS. Q. THAT'S CORRECT. SO THOSE TWO PIECES OF INFORMATION WERE ACQUIRED FROM THE SAME CALL SYSTEM? 22 A. THAT'S CORRECT. 23 Q. AND PRIOR TO LISTENING ON THESE -- AND I KNOW THESE 24 ARE VERY PRO FORMA QUESTIONS, BUT I NEED TO ASK THEM. 25 PRIOR TO LISTENING TO THOSE PHONE CALLS AND OBTAINING 26 THAT INFORMATION ABOUT THE PHONE CALL, THE PHONE NUMBER THAT 27 WAS DIALED, DID YOU HAPPEN TO OBTAIN A WARRANT? 28 A. NO. Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 69 1 Q. DID YOU OBTAIN A WIRE TAP ORDER? 2 A. NO. 3 Q. DID YOU OBTAIN AN ORDER, COURT ORDER FOR ELECTRONIC 4 READ OF RECORDS? 5 A. NO. 6 Q. OKAY. 7 A. NO. 8 Q. DID EVER HAVE A CHANCE TO TALK TO MY CLIENT DIRECTLY? 9 A. YES. 10 Q. WHEN DID YOU TALK TO HIM? 11 A. ON APRIL 20TH OF 2016. 12 Q. OKAY. 13 A. THAT CONVERSATION WAS ABOUT SEVERAL DIFFERENT THINGS. 14 Q. DID YOU ASK HIM AT THAT TIME FOR CONSENT FOR YOU TO 15 AND WHAT WAS THAT CONVERSATION ABOUT? LISTEN TO THOSE PHONE CALLS? 16 A. 17 CALLS. 18 Q. 19 AND DID YOU OBTAIN A SUBPOENA? NO, BECAUSE I HAD ALREADY LISTENED TO THE PHONE VERY GOOD. A. YES, I DID. 21 Q. OKAY. AT SOME AND DID YOU TALK TO HER AFTER YOU LISTENED TO THE PHONE CALLS? 23 A. YES, I DID. 24 Q. OKAY. 25 DID YOU TALK TO POINT DURING THIS INVESTIGATION DIRECTLY? 20 22 OKAY. AND DID YOU ASK HER FOR SPECIFIC CONSENT TO LISTEN TO THE PHONE CALLS? 26 A. NO, BECAUSE IT WAS A MONTH AND A HALF LATER. 27 Q. OKAY. 28 NOW, I WANTED TO GET SOME TIMELINE STUFF STRAIGHTENED OUT AS WELL REALLY QUICKLY. Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) YOU INDICATED THAT 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 70 1 YOU BEGAN LISTENING TO THE PHONE CALLS ON FEBRUARY 23RD; IS 2 THAT CORRECT? 3 A. THAT'S CORRECT. 4 Q. ALL RIGHT. 5 6 7 AND YOU FINISHED YOUR REVIEW OF THE CALLS ON MARCH 14TH, CORRECT? A. NO. WELL, LET ME CLARIFY. I FINISHED MY INITIAL LISTENING TO THE PHONE CALLS ON THE 26TH. 8 Q. OKAY. 9 A. AND WROTE A REPORT TO THAT EFFECT. 10 Q. OKAY. 11 A. AND THEN TO THE ACTUAL CONTENT OF THE PHONE CALLS, I 12 13 14 DID NOT COMPLETE THAT REPORT UNTIL MARCH 14TH. Q. HAD YOU LISTENED TO ALL THE CONTENT BY MARCH -- FEBRUARY 26TH? 15 A. I HAD. 16 Q. OKAY. 17 I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT'S CLEAR. NOW, AT THE TIME THAT YOU LISTENED TO THAT -- THOSE 18 PHONE CALLS -- SO IT WAS MARCH -- IT WAS FEBRUARY 26TH WHEN 19 YOU COMPLETED YOUR REVIEW OF THE CALLS, CORRECT? 20 21 22 A. YEAH, MY FIRST REVIEW. I REVIEWED THEM TWO OR THREE DIFFERENT TIMES. Q. OKAY. AND DURING YOUR LISTENING OF THOSE CALLS, DID 23 YOU REASONABLY BELIEVE THAT ANY OF THOSE CALLS RELATED TO 24 CHILD PORNOGRAPHY? 25 A. NO. 26 Q. OKAY. 27 28 DID YOU BELIEVE, AFTER LISTENING TO THOSE CALLS, THAT -- WELL, LET ME REPHRASE THAT. AT ANY TIME EITHER BEFORE OR DURING OR AFTER Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 71 1 LISTENING TO THESE CALLS DID YOU APPLY TO A COURT FOR A 2 WARRANT OR AN ORDER AUTHORIZING YOU TO LISTEN TO THOSE CALLS 3 OR OBTAIN THE PHONE NUMBERS THAT WERE ON THOSE PHONE CALLS? 4 A. NO. 5 Q. OKAY. AND I DON'T WANT TO GET INTO THE NUANCES OF 6 THIS CALL SYSTEM. YOU SAID -- YOU TESTIFIED EARLIER THIS IS 7 THE FIRST TIME YOU ACTUALLY ACCESSED THAT CALL SYSTEM. 8 A. YES, IT WAS. 9 Q. OKAY. 10 SO I'M GOING TO GUESS YOU'RE NOT INTIMATELY FAMILIAR WITH THE DETAILS OF IT. 11 A. 12 MORE TIMES. 13 I AM NOT. SINCE THEN I'VE PROBABLY USED TWO OR THREE MR. DUDLEY: OKAY. JUST 30 SECONDS, YOUR HONOR. 14 MAKE SURE I DON'T HAVE ANY FOLLOW-UPS AND THEN I THINK WE'LL 15 BE GOOD. 16 17 18 19 THE COURT: YEAH. BY MR. DUDLEY: Q. LAST QUESTION. WHEN YOU -- BEFORE YOU WENT AND ACCESSED THIS SYSTEM, COULD YOU DO IT FROM YOUR DESK? 20 A. YES. 21 Q. OKAY. AND WHAT DID YOU HAVE TO DO TO ACCESS IT? 22 LIKE WHEN I SIGN IN TO GMAIL, I HAVE TO PUT IN MY USER NAME 23 AND PASSWORD. WHAT DO YOU DO? 24 A. 25 PASSWORD. 26 Q. OKAY. 27 A. AND -- WELL, YOU HAVE TO OBTAIN A USER NAME AND YOU 28 THROUGH THE SECURUS SYSTEM YOU HAVE TO OBTAIN A -- A HAVE TO OBTAIN A PASSWORD AND YOU HAVE TO GET CLEARANCE Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 72 1 2 3 THROUGH OUR COMMAND SYSTEM THROUGH OUR D.A. INVESTIGATORS. Q. OKAY. SO LET'S WALK THROUGH EACH OF THOSE, IF WE COULD, REALLY QUICKLY. 4 A. OKAY. 5 Q. WHAT IS THE FIRST THING YOU HAVE TO DO WHEN YOU SIGN 6 UP FOR THIS SECURUS SYSTEM IF YOU'RE IN YOUR POSITION? 7 8 YOU HAVE TO GET AUTHORIZATION OR DO YOU HAVE TO GET THE PASSWORD? 9 A. WELL, SINCE THIS IS THE FIRST TIME -- 10 Q. UH-HUH. 11 A. -- I CALLED THE COMMANDER OF THE SPECIAL -- WHAT WE 12 CALL SPEC OPS. 13 Q. OKAY. 14 A. AND HE GAVE ME A PASSWORD. 15 AND THEN I WAS ABLE -- ACTUALLY, LET ME BACK UP A LITTLE BIT. 16 I ACTUALLY HAD TO SPEAK TO A SHERIFF'S COMMANDER TO 17 DO IT, AND HE GAVE ME A PASSWORD AND ACCESS INTO THE SHERIFF'S 18 SYSTEM TO DO IT. 19 Q. OKAY. SO WHEN YOU CONTACTED THAT SHERIFF 20 REPRESENTATIVE, DID YOU JUST SAY, "HEY, THIS IS DETECTIVE 21 PENWELL FROM THE D.A.I. 22 IS FIRST TIME I'M USING IT. 23 24 I NEED ACCESS THROUGH SECURUS. THIS WALK ME THROUGH IT." HOW DID THAT CONVERSATION GO? A. HE DIDN'T HAVE TO WALK ME THROUGH IT. IT'S PRETTY 25 SELF-EXPLANATORY ONCE YOU GET INTO THE SYSTEM. 26 TO -- ONCE HE GOT ALL MY CREDENTIALS AND DOCUMENTATION FROM 27 OUR SPEC OPS UNITS -- 28 Q. BUT HE HAD OKAY. Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 73 1 A. -- HE WAS ABLE TO -- HE -- ESSENTIALLY ALL HE DID WAS 2 GIVE ME CLEARANCE BY GIVING ME THE PASSWORD TO GET INTO IT. 3 ONCE I GOT INTO IT, I CHANGED MY PASSWORD AND THEN I WAS INTO 4 THE SYSTEM. 5 Q. SO ALL YOU DID WAS JUST INDICATE YOU'RE D.A.I., HE 6 DOUBLED CHECK WITH YOUR SPECIAL OPS THAT THAT WAS THE TRUE 7 STORY -- 8 A. THAT'S CORRECT. 9 Q. -- AND YOU'RE GOOD TO GO? 10 NO OTHER INFORMATION ESSENTIALLY NEED TO BE PASSED FROM YOU TO HIM? 11 A. I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT INFORMATION WAS PASSED TO HIM -- 12 Q. OKAY. 13 A. -- BY MY COMMAND. 14 15 MR. DUDLEY: OKAY. I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER. THANK YOU. 16 MR. DOYLE: ONE QUESTION. 17 18 19 20 REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. DOYLE: Q. WHEN YOU SPOKE TO MR. GARY, THE DEFENDANT, ON 21 APRIL 20TH OF THIS YEAR, DID YOU RECOGNIZE HIS VOICE AS BEING 22 THE SAME VOICE FROM ALL THE CALLS YOU PREVIOUSLY TESTIFIED TO? 23 A. YES. 24 Q. AND WHEN YOU TESTIFIED THAT THAT WAS MR. GARY'S 25 VOICE, THAT'S THE SAME VOICE -- YOU RECOGNIZED THAT VOICE WHEN 26 YOU SPOKE WITH HIM ON THE 20TH OF APRIL? 27 28 A. YES. MR. DOYLE: Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) OKAY. THANK YOU. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS. 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 74 1 MR. DUDLEY: NO REDIRECT -- OR RECROSS. 2 THE COURT: 3 MR. DUDLEY: 4 THE COURT: 5 YOUR SEAT AT COUNSEL TABLE. RECROSS. NO RECROSS, YOUR HONOR. ALL RIGHT. 6 THE WITNESS: 7 THE COURT: 8 NOW. THANK YOU. YOU MAY RESUME THANK YOU, SIR. ALL RIGHT. WE DO NEED TO TAKE A BREAK ARE YOU GOING TO HAVE ANY ADDITIONAL WITNESSES? 9 MR. DOYLE: JUST ONE WITNESS FOR THE MOTION. 10 THE COURT: OKAY. 11 ALL RIGHT. WELL, LET'S TAKE 15 MINUTES THEN. 12 MR. GARY, YOU NEED TO USE THE RESTROOM? 13 THE WITNESS: 14 THE COURT: 15 FACTOR THAT IN. I'M FINE. IF YOU DO, THAT'S FINE. OKAY. JUST NEED TO TAKE A BREAK. 16 (RECESS TAKEN.) 17 THE COURT: MR. DOYLE, DO YOU HAVE A WITNESS TO CALL? 18 MR. DOYLE: I DO, YOUR HONOR. 19 THE COURT: PLEASE. 20 MR. DOYLE: PEOPLE CALL DEPUTY BRANDON POWELL. 21 THE CLERK: SIR, YOU DO SOLEMNLY STATE THAT THE 22 EVIDENCE YOU SHOULD GIVE IN THIS MATTER SHALL BE THE TRUTH, 23 THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH SO HELP YOU GOD? 24 THE WITNESS: 25 THE CLERK: 26 27 28 YES. THANK YOU. PLEASE BE SEATED AT THE WITNESS STAND. SIR, WOULD YOU PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND SPELL YOUR FIRST AND LAST NAME FOR THE RECORD. Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 75 1 2 THE WITNESS: BRANDON POWELL. B-R-A-N-D-O-N P-O-W-E-L-L. 3 THE CLERK: THANK YOU. 4 5 BRANDON POWELL, 6 CALLED AS A WITNESS ON BEHALF OF THE PEOPLE, 7 HAVING BEEN FIRST DULY SWORN, TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS: 8 9 10 DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. DOYLE: 11 Q. BY WHOM ARE YOU EMPLOYED? 12 A. SAN DIEGO COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT. 13 Q. IN WHAT CAPACITY? 14 A. I'M A DETECTIVE WITH DETENTION INVESTIGATIONS UNIT. 15 Q. AND ARE YOU CURRENTLY ASSIGNED TO MONITOR OR 16 ADMINISTER THE SECURUS SYSTEM? 17 A. YES. 18 Q. WHAT IS THE SECURUS SYSTEM? 19 A. SECURUS IS A COMPANY THAT'S CONTRACTED BY THE SAN 20 DIEGO COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT TO RUN AND MAINTAIN ALL 21 INMATE JAIL VISITS AND JAIL PHONE CALLS. 22 Q. AND ARE THEY THE SOLE CONTRACTOR FOR THAT SERVICE? 23 A. YES, FOR THE PHONE CALLS. S.D.C.J., SAN DIEGO 24 CENTRAL JAIL, ON THE THIRD FLOOR OF THE VISIT AREA BACK THERE, 25 IT IS ACTUALLY CONTRACTED THROUGH BLACKWATER, WHICH IS A 26 DIFFERENT ENTITY. 27 SYSTEMS FOR THE FACILITY, BUT THAT'S THE ONLY -- ONLY AREA 28 THAT I'M AWARE OF. Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) THAT'S THE ONES THAT ALSO DO THE CAMERA 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 76 1 Q. AND THAT'S FOR MONITORING A VISIT, NOT FOR CALLS? 2 A. CORRECT. 3 Q. SO ALL JAIL CALLS THAT ARE PLACED FROM COUNTY JAIL 4 FACILITIES ARE FACILITATED BY WAY OF YOUR CONTRACT THROUGH 5 SECURUS? 6 A. CORRECT. 7 Q. CAN AN INMATE -- HOW CAN AN INMATE PLACE A CALL FROM 8 9 A COUNTY JAIL FACILITY? A. ONCE THEY'RE BROUGHT INTO CUSTODY, THEY WILL BE 10 ISSUED A BOOKING NUMBER. AND DURING THE INTAKE PROCESS, THE 11 CALLS ARE FREE. 12 THEY WILL BE ALLOWED TO MAKE A CALL OUTSIDE THE FACILITY. 13 ONCE THEY'RE BOOKED IN, THEY'VE SEEN OUR AND SO THEY'LL ENTER THEIR BOOKING NUMBER AND 14 CLASSIFICATION DEPUTIES, THEY'LL BE ISSUED A PIN NUMBER, AND 15 THESE PIN NUMBERS ARE ASSIGNED TO THEM, ALONG WITH THE BOOKING 16 NUMBER, AND THEY USE THAT TO DIAL OUT. 17 Q. AND OTHER THAN USING THAT, CAN AN INMATE PLACE A CALL 18 FROM A COUNTY JAIL FACILITY, OTHER THAN USING THE SECURUS 19 SYSTEM? 20 A. NO. 21 Q. UNLESS THEY -- 22 A. USE. 23 Q. -- USE A KIND OF CELL PHONE OR SOMETHING? 24 A. CORRECT. 25 Q. NOW, DO YOU KNOW HOW LONG THE SECURUS SYSTEM HAS BEEN 26 OR USE SOMEONE ELSE'S ACCOUNT. IN PLACE AT THE COUNTY JAIL? 27 A. SINCE AUGUST 2012. 28 Q. AND WHAT ARE YOUR DUTIES WITH RESPECT TO THAT SYSTEM? Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 77 1 A. I PROVIDE MINIMAL TECHNICAL SUPPORT. I ASSIGN USER 2 NAME AND PASSWORDS, SEND PHONE CALLS TO OUTSIDE AGENCIES. 3 SAN DIEGO POLICE DEPARTMENT -- OR ANY -- ANY ENTITY OTHER THAN 4 SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT, I'LL SEND THE PHONE CALLS TO THEM. 5 6 Q. SO IS THERE A -- WHEN AN INMATE PLACES A CALL USING THE SECURUS SYSTEM, IS THAT CALL RECORDED? 7 A. YES. 8 Q. IS THE INMATE TOLD THAT THAT CALL IS BEING RECORDED? 9 A. YES. 10 Q. IN JANUARY AND FEBRUARY OF THIS YEAR WAS THERE A 11 STANDARD RECORDING THAT EACH INMATE HEARD PRIOR TO A CALL 12 BEING CONNECTED? 13 A. YES. 14 Q. DID THAT RECORDING TELL THE INMATE THAT THEIR CALL 15 WAS BEING RECORDED AND THAT IT WOULD BE SHARED WITH ANY LAW 16 ENFORCEMENT OR GOVERNMENT ENTITY THAT ASKED? 17 A. AS OF APRIL 2 -- APRIL THIS YEAR, IT ACTUALLY CHANGED 18 AND THAT WENT INTO EFFECT, THAT IT WOULD BE SHARED WITH ANY 19 LAW ENFORCEMENT OR GOVERNMENT AGENCY THAT REQUESTED IT. 20 Q. PRIOR TO APRIL OF THE YEAR -- APRIL OF THIS YEAR, 21 WERE INMATES AWARE THAT THEIR CALLS WERE BEING RECORDED AND 22 COULD BE SHARED? 23 A. YES. 24 Q. AND WAS THAT MESSAGE GIVEN TO BOTH THE PERSON PLACING 25 THE CALL AND THE PERSON RECEIVING THE CALL PRIOR TO IT BEING 26 CONNECTED? 27 A. YES. 28 Q. IS THERE ANY KIND OF SIGNAGE IN COUNTY JAIL THAT Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 78 1 INDICATES TO INMATES WHETHER OR NOT THEIR CALLS ARE BEING 2 RECORDED? 3 A. ONLY IN THE VISITS. 4 Q. AND WHAT DOES THAT SIGNAGE SAY? 5 A. I HAVE NOT SEEN THE SIGNS. 6 Q. CAN A -- IS THERE SOME KIND OF WAY THAT THE SECURUS 7 SYSTEM ORGANIZES CALLS BY INMATE? 8 QUESTION. 9 10 LET ME WITHDRAW THAT CAN -- CAN YOU ACCESS THE SECURUS SYSTEM TO SEE WHO HAS PLACED CERTAIN CALLS ON CERTAIN DATES? 11 A. YES. 12 Q. AND HOW ARE YOU ABLE TO DO THAT? 13 A. THE ASSIGNED BOOKING NUMBER THAT THE INMATES HAVE. 14 Q. DOES THE DATABASE ALLOW YOU TO SEGREGATE CALLS BY 15 BOOKING NUMBER? 16 A. YES. 17 Q. AND BY DATE? 18 A. YES. 19 Q. ARE THERE INDIVIDUALS OTHER THAN YOURSELF WHO HAVE 20 ACCESS TO THE SYSTEM AND ARE ABLE TO PULL THOSE CALLS AND 21 SEGREGATE THEM BY BOOKING NUMBER AND DATE? 22 23 24 25 A. ONLY THOSE THAT ARE ASSIGNED TO A SHERIFF'S TASK FORCE, SHERIFF'S DEPUTIES, AND THE DISTRICT ATTORNEYS. Q. AND DO YOU HAVE ANY ROLE IN DETERMINING WHO HAS ACCESS TO THAT SYSTEM? 26 A. YES. 27 Q. ARE YOU AWARE OF ANYTHING THE SHERIFF HAS DONE TO 28 GIVE INMATES A FALSE IMPRESSION THAT THEIR CALLS ARE PRIVATE Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 79 1 AND WILL NOT BE RECORDED? 2 A. NO. 3 Q. ARE YOU AWARE OF PHYSICALLY WHERE THE DEVICES THAT 4 STORE THE CALLS ARE LOCATED? 5 A. THAT WOULD BE IN AN OFF-SITE IN TEXAS, DALLAS AREA. 6 Q. BY SECURUS? 7 A. YES. 8 Q. AND THE CONTRACT WITH SECURUS, DO YOU KNOW IF IT 9 GIVES THE SHERIFF AUTHORITY TO ACCESS THOSE DEVICES FOR THE 10 PURPOSE OF SEGREGATING OUT CALLS AND DETERMINING WHO PLACED 11 THEM? 12 A. YES. 13 Q. THE CONTRACT DOES DO THAT? 14 A. YES. 15 Q. AND WHO PAYS FOR THAT CONTRACT? 16 A. THAT I DO NOT KNOW. 17 Q. DOES THE SHERIFF -- BUT THE SHERIFF IS THE PAY -- 18 PAYOR AND SECURUS IS THE PAYEE? 19 A. YES. 20 Q. BUT YOU DON'T KNOW THE ACTUAL PERSON? 21 A. RIGHT. 22 MR. DOYLE: THANK YOU. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS. 23 THE COURT: CROSS-EXAMINATION. 24 MR. DUDLEY: YES, YOUR HONOR. 25 26 27 28 CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. DUDLEY: Q. YOU'VE SAID THAT ON APRIL 2ND OF THIS YEAR THAT THE Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 80 1 WARNING THAT INMATES -- WHEN INMATES MAKE A CALL, THE WARNING 2 THAT THEY HEAR CHANGED, CORRECT? 3 A. CORRECT. 4 Q. OKAY. 5 6 7 8 9 TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE, DO YOU KNOW WHY THAT WARNING CHANGED? A. PRIOR TO APRIL 8TH -- NO, I DO NOT KNOW WHY THE WARNING CHANGED ACTUALLY. Q. OKAY. WHAT WERE YOU ABOUT TO TELL ME, IF YOU DON'T MIND SHARING THAT WITH ME? 10 A. THAT IT CHANGED. 11 Q. OKAY. 12 A. THERE WAS AN ADDITION TO IT. 13 Q. AND WHAT WAS THAT ADDITION? 14 A. MAY I REFER TO MY NOTES? 15 Q. YOU MAY. 16 A. THE ADDITION WAS SHARED WITH ANY LAW ENFORCEMENT OR 17 GOVERNMENT ENTITY SEEKING TO LISTEN TO AND USE IT. 18 Q. OKAY. 19 A. THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN APRIL 8TH, SIR. 20 Q. I'M SORRY. 21 AND WHAT IS THE PRE-APRIL 2ND WARNING? APRIL 8TH. WHAT WAS THE PRE-APRIL 8TH WARNING? 22 A. MINUS WHAT I JUST READ. 23 Q. YOU MAY CHECK YOUR NOTES IF YOU NEED TO. 24 A. THAT WAS -- BUT THAT'S WHAT I JUST READ. 25 Q. OKAY. 26 A. THAT WAS IN ADDITION. 27 Q. I'M SORRY. 28 LET'S -- OKAY. LET'S JUST SORT OF DO THIS VERY SMOOTHLY, WHICH I'M NOT VERY GOOD AT, BUT GIVE ME THE Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 81 1 PRE-APRIL 8TH WARNING, JUST WHAT THAT SAID. 2 A. WANT ME TO READ THE WHOLE THING? 3 Q. PLEASE. 4 A. "THIS CALL IS BEING RECORDED. IF YOU ARE AN 5 ATTORNEY, PHYSICIAN, OR RELIGIOUS ADVISOR AND WOULD LIKE TO 6 SPEAK TO YOUR CLIENT WITHOUT BEING RECORDED, YOU MUST FIRST 7 CONTACT THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT AT (858)565-3519 DURING 8 NORMAL BUSINESS HOURS. 9 SO WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT THIS TELEPHONE CALL IS NOT IF YOU PROCEED WITH THIS CALL, YOU DO 10 CONFIDENTIAL AND IT WILL BE RECORD BY THE SHERIFF'S 11 DEPARTMENT. 12 "IF YOU AGREE -- 13 Q. GO AHEAD. 14 A. "IF YOU AGREE TO HAVE THIS CALL RECORDED AND WISH TO 15 PROCEED WITH THIS CALL, PLEASE CONTINUE. 16 TERMINATE THIS CALL NOW." 17 Q. OKAY. OTHERWISE YOU SHOULD AND IF YOU COULD READ THEN TO ME THE 18 POST-APRIL 8TH WARNING THAT IT'S NOW BEEN AMENDED TO. 19 ENTIRE ONE TOO, PLEASE. 20 21 A. THE YES, SIR. "THIS CALL IS BEING RECORDED. IF YOU ARE AN 22 ATTORNEY, PHYSICIAN, OR RELIGIOUS ADVISOR AND WOULD LIKE TO 23 SPEAK TO YOUR CLIENT WITHOUT BEING RECORDED, YOU MUST FIRST 24 CONTACT THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT AT (858)565-3519 DURING 25 NORMAL BUSINESS HOURS. 26 SO WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT THIS TELEPHONE CALL IS NOT 27 CONFIDENTIAL AND WILL BE RECORDED BY THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT 28 AND SHARED WITH ANY LAW ENFORCEMENT OR GOVERNMENT ENTITY Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) IF YOU PROCEED WITH THIS CALL, YOU DO 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 82 1 SEEKING TO LISTEN TO AND USE IT. 2 PHONE CALLED RECORDED AND WISH TO PROCEED WITH THIS CALL, 3 PLEASE CONTINUE. 4 NOW." 5 Q. 6 OKAY. IF YOU AGREE TO HAVE THIS OTHERWISE YOU SHOULD TERMINATE THIS CALL THANK YOU. ONE OTHER QUESTION. ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE 7 SAN DIEGO COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT DETENTION SERVICES 8 BUREAU MANUAL OF POLICIES AND PROCEDURES? 9 A. YES. 10 Q. OKAY. THAT'S A MOUTHFUL. ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE SECTION ON 11 MONITORING TELEPHONE CALLS FROM THE 2016 EDITION OF THAT 12 MANUAL? 13 A. I CAN'T SAY THAT I'VE READ IT. 14 Q. OKAY. 15 A. SPENT UP ON IT LATELY. 16 Q. IF I SHOWED YOU A COPY OF THAT SECTION -- IT'S ONLY A 17 LITTLE OVER THREE PAGES -- WOULD THAT REFRESH YOUR MEMORY AS 18 TO WHAT THE RULES ON THAT AND PARTICULARLY IN AN AREA THAT YOU 19 COVER ON YOUR JOB? 20 A. OKAY. 21 MR. DUDLEY: 22 THE COURT: 23 MR. DUDLEY: MAY I APPROACH, YOUR HONOR? YES. THIS IS COURT'S EXHIBIT A, WHICH I'VE 24 HAD YOUR CLERK PREMARK. 25 BY MR. DUDLEY: 26 27 28 Q. TAKE A MINUTE TO GO OVER THAT AND PLEASE JUST LET ME KNOW WHEN YOU'RE READY. A. I'VE SHOWN IT TO MR. DOYLE AS WELL. TAKE YOUR TIME. OKAY. Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 83 1 Q. DID YOU GET A CHANCE TO REVIEW THAT? 2 A. YES. 3 Q. DOES THAT APPEAR TO BE THE SECTION IN MANUAL ON 4 MONITORING TELEPHONE CALLS AS YOU RECALL? 5 A. I HAVEN'T REVIEWED THIS MANUAL IN A WHILE, SIR. 6 Q. OKAY. 7 A. SO I DON'T -- 8 Q. DOES IT APPEAR TO BE? 9 A. IT APPEARS TO BE A PART OF THE DETENTION SERVICES 10 11 BUREAU. Q. DO THE REGULATIONS IN THERE COMPORT WITH YOUR 12 UNDERSTANDING OF THE REGULATIONS REGARDING TELEPHONE CALL 13 RECORDING, BY AND LARGE? 14 A. TO MY KNOWLEDGE, YES. 15 Q. OKAY. 16 ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE DETENTIONS INVESTIGATIONS UNIT? 17 A. YES. 18 Q. NOW, I KNOW YOU JUST READ THIS DOCUMENT AND YOU 19 HAVEN'T REVIEWED IT FREQUENTLY IN A WHILE. 20 KNOW THE ANSWER TO THE NEXT FEW QUESTIONS, JUST LET ME KNOW, 21 AND YOU CAN REFRESH YOUR MEMORY BY LOOKING AT THAT DOCUMENT, 22 BUT JUST LET ME KNOW, AND THAT WAY YOU DON'T FEEL LIKE YOU'RE 23 MAKING A GUESS OR JUST BASING ON WHAT YOU JUST READ, YOU MIGHT 24 NOT REMEMBER THE EXACT VERBIAGE TO. 25 26 SO IF YOU DON'T DO YOU KNOW WHO THE, QUOTE, UNQUOTE, ADMINISTRATORS OF THE PHONE SYSTEM FOR THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT ARE? 27 A. THAT WOULD BE THE DETENTIONS INVESTIGATION UNIT. 28 Q. OKAY. AND DO YOU KNOW WHO THE AUTHORIZED PERSONS ARE Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 84 1 WHO SHALL BE GRANTED ACCESS TO THE PHONE SYSTEM IN AN ONGOING 2 MANNER ACCORDING TO THE MANUAL? 3 A. ARE YOU REFERRING TO WHO WE GIVE ACCESS TO? 4 Q. CORRECT. 5 A. I DON'T KNOW. 6 Q. YEAH, YOU CAN LOOK IT. 7 ACCORDING TO YOUR REGULATIONS. CAN I LOOK AT IT AGAIN? ABSOLUTELY. JUST LET ME KNOW. 8 A. OKAY. 9 Q. YOU'RE WELL WITHIN YOURSELF TO DO THAT. 10 OKAY. SO DOES THAT REFRESH YOUR MEMORY AS TO WHO THE 11 AUTHORIZED PERSONS ARE? 12 A. YES. 13 Q. AND WHO ARE THEY? 14 A. DO YOU WANT ME TO READ IT. 15 Q. WELL, IF YOU NEED TO READ IT. 16 17 IF YOU CAN'T JUST REMEMBER WHAT YOU JUST READ, SURE. A. "OTHER INVESTIGATORS, AUTHORIZED PERSONNEL, OTHER 18 AUTHORIZED PERSONS THAT ARE GRANTED ACCESS TO THE CALL SYSTEMS 19 IN AN ONGOING MANNER." 20 Q. OKAY. 21 DOCUMENT? 22 A. AND DOESN'T IT REFERENCE SECTION 4(C) IN THAT "ACCESS TO THE PHONE SYSTEM SHALL BE GRANTED TO 23 SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT PERSONNEL, DISTRICT ATTORNEY PERSONNEL, 24 OTHER COUNTY AGENCIES AS DIRECTED." 25 26 27 28 Q. OKAY. NOW, DO YOU KNOW IF THE INDIVIDUALS -- WELL, LET ME REPHRASE THAT. ISN'T IT TRUE THAT UNDER THE DETENTION SERVICES BUREAU MANUAL, ON PAGE ONE OF THE MANUAL YOU HAVE IN FRONT OF Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 85 1 YOU, THAT THOSE INDIVIDUALS LISTED IN 4(C) HAVE ACCESS TO THE 2 PHONE SYSTEM AND THEREFORE DO NOT NEED TO PRODUCE A WRITTEN 3 REQUEST FOR PHONE CALL RECORDINGS TO BE DOWNLOADED? 4 THAT WHAT THE MANUAL SAYS? ISN'T 5 A. CORRECT, BECAUSE THEY HAVE ACCESS TO THE SYSTEM. 6 Q. SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO ASK FOR YOUR PERMISSION TO GO 7 IN THERE? 8 A. CORRECT. 9 Q. OKAY. AND TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE, THEY ALSO 10 DON'T HAVE TO ASK FOR CONSENT FROM ANY OF THE CALLERS TO 11 LISTEN TO THOSE PHONE CALLS? 12 A. CORRECT. 13 Q. AND TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE, THEY DON'T HAVE TO 14 GET A WARRANT TO LISTEN TO THOSE PHONE CALLS? 15 A. NO. 16 Q. AND THEY DON'T HAVE TO GET A COURT ORDER? 17 A. NO. 18 Q. THEY DON'T HAVE TO GET A SUBPOENA? 19 A. NO. 20 Q. AND THEY DON'T HAVE TO GET A WIRE TAP ORDER? 21 A. NO. 22 MR. DUDLEY: 23 THE COURT: REDIRECT. 24 MR. DOYLE: NONE, YOUR HONOR. 25 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. 26 MR. DOYLE: YES. 27 MR. DUDLEY: 28 THE COURT: Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER. MAY THIS WITNESS BE EXCUSED? YES. THANK YOU. ANY FURTHER EVIDENCE ON 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 86 1 BEHALF OF THE PEOPLE? 2 MR. DOYLE: NO, YOUR HONOR. 3 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. 4 5 EVIDENCE ON BEHALF OF THE DEFENSE? MR. DUDLEY: YOUR HONOR, I WOULD ASK THE COURT TO 6 CONSIDER TAKING JUDICIAL NOTICE OF A CONSENT FORM, WHICH I 7 HAVE IN FRONT OF ME, AND I'LL -- I'M SURE THE COURT IS 8 FAMILIAR WITH IT. 9 SEARCH/SEIZURE CONSENT FORM, WHICH EARLIER ON IN 2016 THE IT'S A FOURTH WAIVER AND E.C.P.A. 10 PROBATION DEPARTMENT AND THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE WERE 11 ADAMANT, AS WELL AS THE COURT, FOR DEFENDANTS TO SIGN WHILE 12 THEY -- CLIENTS WERE ON BOND OR ON PROBATION. 13 I'D ASK THE COURT -- I DO HAVE A COPY OF THAT TO TAKE 14 JUDICIAL NOTICE OF IT. I'M SHOWING IT TO MR. DOYLE RIGHT NOW. 15 I'M PRETTY SURE HE'S SEEN IT BEFORE. 16 CURRENTLY IS NOT IN EFFECT. 17 TO THE DYNAMIC OF OUR E.C.P.A. ANALYSIS IN THIS CASE. IT HAS BEEN -- IT HOWEVER, I THINK IT IS RELEVANT 18 CAN I APPROACH WITH IT? 19 THE COURT: MR. DOYLE. 20 MR. DOYLE: YOUR HONOR, I DON'T THINK IT'S A PROPER 21 SUBJECT UNDER EVIDENCE SECTIONS 451 AND -2. 22 THE COURT: 23 MR. DUDLEY: 24 THE COURT: I DON'T THINK SO EITHER. OKAY. AND I DON'T THINK THAT IT WOULD BE 25 RELEVANT IN ANY EVENT, BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S SOMETHING I CAN 26 TAKE JUDICIAL NOTICE OF. 27 28 SO THAT REQUEST IS DENIED. IF YOU WANT TO HAVE THE CLERK MARK -- MARK A COPY OF THAT AS A COURT'S EXHIBIT SO SOMEBODY REVIEWING THIS RECORD Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 87 1 2 3 4 5 WILL UNDERSTAND WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. MR. DUDLEY: ABSOLUTELY. I THINK WE SHOULD DO THAT. THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: THAT WILL BE MARKED AND RECEIVED AS COURT'S 3. 6 THE CLERK: COURT'S EXHIBIT 1, YOUR HONOR. 7 THE COURT: OKAY. 8 (EXHIBIT NO. COURT'S 1 RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.) 9 MR. DUDLEY: 10 POLICY AND PROCEDURES. 11 MR. DOYLE: 12 MR. DUDLEY: 13 MR. DOYLE: 14 15 16 AND THIS IS ALSO A COPY OF THE MANUAL OF AS COURT'S EXHIBIT A. A. AND I HAVE NO OBJECTION TO ITS BEING RECEIVED. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. SO BOTH COURT'S EXHIBITS ARE RECEIVED. 17 MR. DOYLE: YES. ONE IS RECEIVED. 18 THE COURT: OF COURT'S EXHIBITS. 19 MR. DUDLEY: 20 MR. DOYLE: ONLY ONE IS ADMITTED? 21 THE COURT: WELL, ARE YOU ASKING -- 22 MR. DOYLE: WELL, I GUESS I WAS -- I HAVE NO PROBLEM YES. 23 WITH THE RECEIPT OF A AND B, BUT I'M OBJECTING TO THE 24 ADMISSION OF B. 25 26 27 28 THE COURT: OKAY. WELL, I'LL RECEIVE THE MANUAL IS MARKED AS COURT'S A. THE CLERK: YOUR HONOR. IT IS. THAT WAS IN ANY ERROR, I GRABBED THE WRONG STICKER. Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 88 1 2 3 4 DEFENDANT'S A. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. SO WE'LL REMARK THAT AS DEFENDANT'S A AND I'LL RECEIVE THAT IN EVIDENCE. THE OTHER CONSENT FORM, IF YOU WILL, I WON'T RECEIVE 5 IN EVIDENCE, BUT I'LL RECEIVE IT AS A COURT'S EXHIBIT SO IT 6 WILL BE PART OF THE FILE SO SOMEBODY REVIEWING THESE 7 PROCEEDINGS CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. 8 ALL RIGHT. ANY ADDITIONAL EVIDENCE THEN? 9 (EXHIBIT NO. DEFENSE A RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.) 10 MR. DOYLE: NOT BY THE PEOPLE. 11 THE COURT: BY THE DEFENSE. 12 MR. DUDLEY: 13 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. 14 MR. DOYLE: WHAT WOULD THE COURT LIKE TO START WITH? 15 THE COURT: WELL, DO YOU WANT ME TO ADDRESS THE 16 1538.5 FIRST AND THEN OR... 17 18 MR. DUDLEY: NOT BY THE DEFENSE, YOUR HONOR. ARGUMENT. WELL, I THINK THAT'S DISPOSITIVE. I MEAN IT WOULD BE PROBABLY BE A LOGICAL PLACE TO START. 19 THE COURT: 20 MR. DUDLEY: 21 THE COURT: WELL, I WOULD THINK SO. RIGHT. AS I INDICATED, I HAVE READ THE POINTS 22 AND AUTHORITIES BY BOTH SIDES, BY THE MOVING PARTY, THE 23 DEFENDANT, AND THE PEOPLE'S RESPONSE. 24 COUNSEL, IT'S YOUR MOTION. 25 MR. DUDLEY: GOOD QUESTION. IT IS MY MOTION. YOU'RE 26 RIGHT, ALTHOUGH I DID -- WASN'T SURE THE -- LET'S JUST BE -- 27 I'LL BE HONEST, GIVEN THIS IS THE FIRST ONE OF THESE MOTIONS 28 I'VE FILED, I THINK THE MECHANICS OF IT MAY BE A LITTLE BIT Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 89 1 DIFFERENT. I THINK MY SENSE OF IT WOULD BE SINCE I'M 2 ASSERTING THAT IT'S A WARRANTLESS SEARCH THAT IT'S THE 3 PEOPLE'S BURDEN. 4 THE COURT: WELL, I THINK -- I TAKE THAT POINT. 5 MR. DUDLEY: AND I'LL MAKE WHATEVER THE COURT 6 PREFERS. 7 THE COURT: 8 WARRANTLESS SEARCH? 9 MR. DOYLE: CORRECT. 10 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. 11 12 THE PEOPLE AGREE THAT THIS WAS A WELL, LET'S HEAR FROM THE PEOPLE THEN. MR. DOYLE: WELL, THEN, YOUR HONOR, I'D, YOU KNOW, 13 I'D BE HAPPY TO EXPAND UPON ANYTHING I'VE WRITTEN. 14 PRETTY VOLUMINOUS MOTION, AND I APPRECIATE THE COURT'S TAKING 15 THE TIME TO READ IT. 16 LAID OUT IN MY MOTION, THAT THIS EVIDENCE IS SOMETHING THAT IS 17 UNAFFECTED BY E.C.P.A. 18 HAS CHANGED IN THAT REGARD. 19 WITH RESPECT TO THIS PARTICULAR TYPE OF EVIDENCE. 20 E.C.P.A. ITSELF MAKES THAT VERY CLEAR. 21 SAID, I DON'T EVEN THINK THERE'S NECESSARY A MANDATORY REMEDY 22 OR THE REMEDY THAT THE DEFENSE IS SEEKING FOR A VIOLATION. 23 AND IF THE COURT IS INCLINED TO VIEW THERE'S A VIOLATION, I'D 24 LIKE TO BE HEARD A LITTLE BIT MORE WITH THAT RESPECT TO THE 25 REMEDY ARGUMENT, BUT AT THIS POINT I DON'T THINK THERE IS ONE. 26 27 28 MR. DUDLEY: I WROTE A I THINK I'VE -- FOR ALL THE REASONS I'VE I DON'T THINK ANY LONG-STANDING LAW THE LAW MAY HAVE CHANGED, BUT NOT I THINK AND THEN AS I FINALLY AND I'LL SORT OF START BACKWARDS AND WORK FORWARDS. I BELIEVE THAT THE REMEDY, IF THE COURT IS INCLINED Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 90 1 TO GRANT IT, IS NOT A CONDITIONAL REMEDY. 2 MANDATORY REMEDY. 3 I THINK IT'S A I THINK THAT THE -- THE COURT: WELL, I DON'T THINK -- I DON'T KNOW THAT 4 I'D USED THE WORD "CONDITIONAL." 5 I GET TO THAT POINT -- I THINK YOUR POSITION IS IF 6 MR. DOYLE: RIGHT. 7 THE COURT: -- THAT I HAVE DISCRETION TO. 8 MR. DOYLE: CORRECT. 9 THE COURT: OKAY. 10 MR. DUDLEY: 11 THAT'S MY POSITION. 12 THE COURT: 13 MR. DUDLEY: I DON'T THINK WE'RE AT DISCRETION. OKAY. AND THE REASON FOR THAT, I THINK THE 14 PLAIN LANGUAGE OF 1546.4 SAYS -- 1546.4(A) SAYS, AND I'LL 15 QUOTE IT, "THE MOTION SHALL BE MADE, DETERMINED, AND BE 16 SUBJECT TO REVIEW IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE PROCEDURES SET FORTH 17 IN SUBDIVISIONS (B) TO (Q), INCLUSIVE, OF SECTION 1538.5." 18 AND AS I RECALL FROM 1538.5, THAT IF THE COURT FINDS 19 THAT THERE HAS BEEN -- THAT THE EVIDENCE SHOULD BE EXCLUDED, 20 IT SHALL BE EXCLUDED. 21 TO NOT EXCLUDE IT. 22 ISSUE. I DON'T THINK THE COURT HAS AN OPTION SO I DON'T THINK THERE'S A DISCRETIONARY IF WE GET TO THAT POINT. 23 SO I'LL WORK BACKWARDS AND THEN GO FORWARDS. 24 THE COURT: 25 MR. DUDLEY: ALL RIGHT. THE SECOND THING I WOULD POSE IS -- 26 LET'S JUST START WITH WITNESSES. E.C.P.A. IS A LANDMARK 27 STATUTE. 28 COMMUNICATION INFORMATION AND A PERSON'S OR AN ENTITY IN IT PROFOUNDLY CHANGES HOW WE VIEW ELECTRONIC Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 91 1 PARTICULAR, A GOVERNMENT ENTITY'S ACCESS TO IT. 2 GAMUT. 3 JUST TALKED ABOUT, A SUPPRESSION, A STATUTORY SUPPRESSION 4 MECHANISM THAT IS LAWFUL BECAUSE IT HAS BEEN PASSED UNDER THE 5 PROVISION OF PROP 8 BY TWO-THIRDS OF THE MAJORITY. 6 GO TO WHAT -- HOW THESE PHONE CALLS ARE COVERED. 7 IT HAS A WIDE FOR THE FIRST TIME I'VE EVER SEEN, IT INCLUDES WHAT WE BUT LET'S THESE PHONE CALLS ARE CLEARLY ELECTRONIC 8 COMMUNICATIONS UNDER THE STATUTE. IT CANNOT BE ANY -- THERE 9 CAN'T BE ANOTHER READING OF THAT. AND THE REASON IS IF YOU 10 LOOK AT 1546(C), "'ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATION' MEANS THE 11 TRANSFER OF SIGNS, SIGNALS, WRITINGS, IMAGES, SOUNDS" -- I 12 THINK PHONE CALLS ARE SOUNDS. 13 COVERED ON BY ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATION. 14 THOSE ARE PEOPLE'S VOICES BEING AND ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATION INFORMATION IS INCLUDED, 15 NOT LIMITED TO, THE CONTENTS OF THOSE CALLS, THE SENDER, 16 RECIPIENTS, FORMAT, OR LOCATION OF THE SENDER, RECIPIENT -- OR 17 RECIPIENTS AT ANY POINT DURING THE COMMUNICATION, OR ANY -- 18 AND I'M SKIPPING AHEAD -- ANY INFORMATION PERTAINING TO ANY 19 INDIVIDUAL OR DEVICE PARTICIPATING IN THE COMMUNICATION. 20 NOW, I THINK THE WAY I'VE SORT OF DISSECTED THIS 21 STATUTE BECAUSE IT'S -- THERE ARE A LOT OF DEFINITIONS WHICH 22 ARE NEW HERE AND A LOT OF DEFINITIONS WHICH SORT OF ARE 23 DIFFICULT TO GET TO IN TERMS OF WHAT -- WHO PLAYS WHAT 24 PARTICULARLY IN THIS CASE. 25 WAS LOOKING AT EACH -- SORT OF WHO'S WHO IN THE WAY I SEE THE 26 CASE IN THE MOST SORT OF LOGICAL, COMMON SENSE WAY. 27 28 BUT THE WAY I SORT OF DISSECTED IT I SEE IN THIS CASE UNDER 1546(E) THAT MY CLIENT, MR. GARY, IS AN AUTHORIZED POSSESSOR OF AN ELECTRONIC DEVICE. Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 92 1 THE COURT: 2 MR. DUDLEY: WHAT ELECTRONIC DEVICE DOES HE POSSESS? THE PHONE. WHEN HE'S IN JAIL AND HE'S 3 USING THE PHONE, HE'S IN POSSESSION OF THAT PHONE. 4 THE OWNER OF THE PHONE, BUT HE'S POSSESSING THE PHONE AS HE'S 5 ON THE PHONE. 6 AUTHORIZED POSSESSOR TO BE. 7 POSSESS THE DEVICE BY THE OWNER OF THE DEVICE AND THAT WOULD 8 BE THE COUNTY OR THE JAIL, HOWEVER YOU WANT TO FRAME THAT. 9 HE IS NOT THAT'S -- THAT IS -- THAT WAS WHAT I SEE AND HE'S BEEN AUTHORIZED TO AS FAR AS WHAT ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATION HERE IS, 10 THAT'S THE USE OF THAT JAILHOUSE PHONE. 11 COMMUNICATION INFORMATION ON 1546(D), IT'S THE CONTENTS OF THE 12 PHONE CALL, BUT IT'S ALSO THE SENDER/RECIPIENT INFORMATION, 13 THAT'S THE PHONE NUMBERS CALLED, AS WELL AS ANY METADATA WHICH 14 MIGHT BE IN THAT PHONE INFORMATION. 15 ELECTRONIC 1546(E), WHAT'S THE ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATION SERVICE? 16 THAT'S THE PHONE SERVICE PROVIDED IN THE JAIL. 17 ELECTRONIC DEVICE HERE IS THE PHONE IN THE JAIL AND ALSO THAT 18 GOES HAND IN HAND BECAUSE IT'S A PHONE SYSTEM THE WAY IT'S 19 BEEN CHARACTERIZED BY THE WITNESSES AS A PHONE SYSTEM MANAGED 20 BY SECURUS WHO HAS THE DATABASES, I BELIEVE, IN TEXAS IS WHAT 21 THEY SAID. 22 IN FACT, WHEN YOU -- WHEN I TRY AND CALL A PHONE -- A CLIENT 23 WHO'S IN CUSTODY, I NEED TO FUND MY ACCOUNT OR HAVE THEM CALL 24 ME COLLECT. 25 AND THE BUT THEY'RE THE ONES WHO MANAGE THE PHONE SYSTEM. I HAVE TO FUND AN ACCOUNT THROUGH THE SECURUS. SO THEY MANAGE THE WHOLE SCOPE OF THINGS. 26 MANAGE THE -- RECORDING THE CALLS. 27 TIMES. 28 THE SERVICE PROVIDER HERE. THEY MANAGE THE PHONE THEY MANAGE ALL OF THAT STUFF. Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) THEY SO I THINK SECURUS IS 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 93 1 AND AS FAR AS GOVERNMENT ENTITY, HERE IT'S THE D.A.'S 2 OFFICE. 3 STATE OR A POLITICAL SUBDIVISION HEREOF -- THEREOF OR AN 4 INDIVIDUAL ACTING ON BEHALF OF THE STATE OR POLITICAL 5 SUBDIVISION THEREOF. 6 GOVERNMENT ENTITY MEANS A DEPARTMENT OR AGENCY OF THE THE D.A. HERE IS A GOVERNMENT ENTITY. AND AS I SAID 7 BEFORE, UNDER THE 1546(J), THE SERVICE PROVIDER IS SECURUS. 8 AND I THINK AN IMPORTANT ISSUE WHEN WE GET INTO THIS CASE IS 9 THE DEFINITION UNDER 1546(K) AND THAT'S SPECIFIC CONSENT. AND 10 THAT MEANS CONSENT PROVIDED DIRECTLY TO THE GOVERNMENT ENTITY 11 SEEKING INFORMATION, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE 12 GOVERNMENT ENTITY THAT IS THE ADDRESSEE OR INTENDED RECIPIENT 13 OR A MEMBER OF THE INTENDED AUDIENCE OF AN ELECTRONIC 14 COMMUNICATION. 15 THE INTENDED RECIPIENT HERE IS THE PERSON THAT 16 MR. GARY IS TRYING TO CALL OR IS CALLING. 17 SOME HANG-UP CALLS ON THOSE CALLS. 18 THAT'S THE INTENDED PROVIDER. 19 DEFINITION, THAT'S WHO THE INTENDED RECIPIENT OF A PHONE CALL 20 IS, THE PERSON THEY'RE TRYING TO CALL. 21 SOMETIMES THERE'S BUT HE IS THE PERSON -- BY ANY KIND OF COMMON SENSE NOW, WHEN WE LOOK AT THE STATUTE, AND THAT'S WHY I 22 WENT THROUGH SOME OF THOSE MECHANICS WITH EACH OF THE 23 WITNESSES ABOUT WHAT A GOVERNMENT ENTITY NEEDS TO DO IN ORDER 24 TO ACCESS THIS INFORMATION. 25 LIKE MOST THINGS, IS THEY CAN GET A WARRANT. 26 A WARRANT HERE. 27 DIDN'T GET A WIRE TAP ORDER. 28 RECORD WHICH IS OBTAINED THROUGH A SECTION OF THE CIVIL CODE. ONE OF THE WAYS THEY CAN DO IT, THEY DIDN'T GET ANOTHER WAY IS TO GET A WIRE TAP ORDER. Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) THEY ANOTHER WAY IS ELECTRONIC READER 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 94 1 THAT WASN'T OBTAINED THAT WAY. 2 OBTAIN THIS INFORMATION VIA SUBPOENA. 3 THE ONLY WAY THAT THE GOVERNMENT ENTITY, NOT ANY, THE 4 GOVERNMENT ENTITY, IN THIS CASE THE D.A., CAN OBTAIN THIS 5 ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATION INFORMATION IS WITH THE SPECIFIC 6 CONSENT OF THE AUTHORIZED POSSESSOR OF THE DEVICE. 7 AND LASTLY THERE'S A METHOD TO BUT FOR THOSE METHODS, NOW, THE SPECIFIC CONSENT OF THE OWNER OF THE DEVICE 8 CAN GIVE THEM AUTHORIZATION TO THAT BUT ONLY IF THE DEVICE HAS 9 BEEN REPORTED AS LOST OR STOLEN. IT'S A PHONE. NO ONE'S 10 REPORTED IT LOST OR STOLEN. 11 NOT LIKE A SITUATION WHERE THE PHONE WAS LOST OR STOLEN IN ANY 12 SENSE. 13 14 15 THE COURT: AND IT'S A PHONE IN A WALL. IT'S HOW WOULD THE JAIL PHONE SYSTEM EVER GET LOST OR STOLEN? MR. DUDLEY: I THINK THAT THAT SCENARIO IS SUPPOSED 16 TO BE DONE FOR LIKE A CELL PHONE, PERHAPS, IS LOST OR STOLEN. 17 THAT EXCEPTION DOESN'T APPLY. 18 MENTIONED ON CROSS ON SEVERAL OF THEM WERE WHETHER OR NOT -- 19 AND LOOKING AHEAD HERE. 20 PROVIDER HERE CAN DISCLOSE IT. 21 22 THE OTHER EXCEPTIONS WHICH I THERE'S OTHER WAYS THAT A SERVICE AND I WANT TO JUMP HEAD TO THIS. IMPORTANT PART. THIS IS AN I KNOW THE D.A. IS GOING TO BE ON THIS. 23 A SERVICE PROVIDER UNDER 1546.1(F) MAY VOLUNTARILY 24 DISCLOSE ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATION INFORMATION OR SUBSCRIBER 25 INFORMATION WHEN THAT DISCLOSURE IS NOT OTHERWISE PROHIBITED 26 BY STATE OR FEDERAL LAW. 27 28 BUT HERE'S THE CATCH. IN SECTION (G), "IF A GOVERNMENT ENTITY RECEIVES ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATION Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 95 1 INFORMATION VOLUNTARILY PROVIDED PURSUANT TO SUBDIVISION (F), 2 IT SHALL DESTROY THAT INFORMATION WITHIN 90 DAYS UNLESS ONE OR 3 MORE OF THE FOLLOWING CIRCUMSTANCES APPLY." 4 AND THAT FIRST ONE IS "THE ENTITY HAS OR OBTAINS" -- 5 THEY DIDN'T DO EITHER. 6 AT THE MOMENT OR DONE IT LATER -- "OBTAINS THE SPECIFIC 7 CONSENT OF THE SENDER OR RECIPIENT OF THE ELECTRONIC 8 COMMUNICATIONS ABOUT WHICH INFORMATION WAS DISCLOSED." 9 10 11 12 13 I ASKED THAT QUESTION HAD YOU DONE IT THE OTHER EXCEPTION UNDER (G)(2), COURT ORDER, THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN. THE CHILD PORNOGRAPHY EXCEPTION UNDER (3). THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN. UNDER (H), IF THE GOVERNMENT ENTITY OBTAINS THE 14 ELECTRONIC INFORMATION PURSUANT TO AN EMERGENCY INVOLVING 15 DANGER OR DEATH OR SERIOUS INJURY, THE ENTITY SHALL, WITHIN 16 THREE DAYS AFTER OBTAINING INFORMATION, FILE THE 17 APPROPRIATE -- WITH THE APPROPRIATE COURT AN APPLICATION. 18 I ASKED THE DETECTIVE PENWELL, HEY, AFTER OR DURING 19 WHILE YOU'RE REVIEWING IT WITHIN A CERTAIN PERIOD, DID YOU 20 EVER GO TO COURT FOR A COURT ORDER TO DO SO. 21 NONE OF THOSE. I THINK THIS CASE LIES IN ONE THING. I THINK WHEN IT 22 BREAKS DOWN TO IT I REALLY SEE THE -- THAT THIS INFORMATION, 23 JAILHOUSE CALLS, DO -- ARE COVERED BY E.C.P.A. 24 ALTHOUGH IT'S NOT DISPOSITIVE, I THINK THERE'S STRONG 25 PERSUASIVE EVIDENCE TO INDICATE SUCH BECAUSE OF THE SAN DIEGO 26 COUNTY SHERIFF'S COMPLETE ALTERATION OR ADDITION TO THEIR 27 WARNINGS THAT THEY PUT ON TO PHONE CALLS. 28 IMPORTANT ADDENDUM AND THAT WAS THAT IT WILL -- THAT ANY LAW Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) I THINK, THEY ADDED A VERY 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 96 1 ENFORCEMENT AGENCY COULD LISTEN TO THESE CALLS AND IT COULD 2 LEAD TO YOUR PROSECUTION. 3 IT VERBATIM, BUT THE COURT I'M SURE HEARD IT -- IS DIFFERENT. 4 THERE'S A REASON THEY MADE THAT CHANGE. 5 REASON IS SENSITIVE BECAUSE THEY KNOW THAT THESE JAIL CALLS 6 NOW FALL UNDER THE AMBIT OF THE E.C.P.A. 7 THAT WARNING -- AND I'M NOT QUOTING AND I THINK THAT NOW I THINK THEY HAVE A MUCH STRONGER ARGUMENT. MY 8 ARGUMENT WOULD STILL BE IT'S NOT STRONG ENOUGH BECAUSE I DON'T 9 THINK THEY'RE SAYING UNDER SPECIFIC CONSENT DEFINITION IN THE 10 STATUTE, THE CONSENT MEETS -- SPECIFIC CONSENT MEANS CONSENT 11 PROVIDED DIRECTLY TO THE GOVERNMENT AGENCY SEEKING 12 INFORMATION. 13 KNOWLEDGE ON THE PART OF MR. GARY THAT THIS PHONE CALL WAS 14 GOING TO BE LISTENED TO BY ANY LAW ENFORCEMENT. 15 BE A REASON WHY THEY ADDED THIS VERBIAGE TO THE END OF THEIR 16 WARNING. 17 MAKES SENSE. 18 COVERED -- GAVE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR MR. GARY TO PROVIDE 19 SPECIFIC CONSENT FOR THAT RECORDING TO OCCUR, FOR THE 20 INFORMATION OF THAT PHONE CALL TO OCCUR. 21 THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN HERE. THERE WASN'T EVEN THERE HAS TO I THINK THE REASON IS BECAUSE OF THE E.C.P.A. IT AND I DON'T THINK THAT THE PRIOR WARNING AND I KNOW THAT THE COURT AGREES WITH MY ARGUMENT 22 THAT THE RESULT IS DRACONIAN. 23 IS SUPPRESSED OF ALL THE PHONE CALLS. 24 INTERVIEWS OF THE OTHER INTERVIEW -- OTHER WITNESSES IS FRUIT 25 OF THE POISONOUS TREE. 26 DOCTRINE SAVES IT. 27 HAVE GOTTEN THIS INFORMATION BUT FOR THE PHONE CALLS. SO I 28 KNOW -- AND I KNOW THE CHARGES HERE ARE VERY SERIOUS. BUT I Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) THE RESULT IS THAT THE EVIDENCE I THINK THE SUBSEQUENT I DON'T THINK THE INDEPENDENT SOURCE I DON'T THINK THERE'S A WAY THEY COULD 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 97 1 DO THINK THAT THIS IS -- IT'S CERTAINLY AN AREA OF THE LAW 2 WHERE I THINK THE COURT WILL MAKE A VERY REASONED AND LEGAL 3 DECISION BASED ON HOW IT SEES THE STATUTE BECAUSE I THINK 4 IT'S -- IT'S GROUNDBREAKING IN TERMS OF WHERE THIS COULD GO 5 AND HOW IT'S GOING TO GO. 6 NOW, THE LEGISLATURE DOESN'T ADDRESS IT IN THE 7 STATUTE SPECIFICALLY ABOUT JAILHOUSE CALLS. 8 ELIMINATE IT AS A POTENTIAL. 9 EXCEPTION TO IT. 10 11 THAT. THEY DON'T THEY DON'T SAY THAT'S AN THEY COULD HAVE VERY WELL EASILY HAVE DONE BUT THEY DIDN'T DO THAT. SO WITH ALL THESE THOUGHTS IN MIND, I KNOW IT'S A -- 12 AND HONESTLY AND READING THE E.C.P.A. MYSELF, IT'S A LITTLE -- 13 GAVE ME A BIT OF A HEADACHE YESTERDAY. 14 INFORMATION THERE AND A LOT OF DEFINITIONS WHICH ARE NEW. 15 IDEA OF SPECIFIC CONSENT IS SOMETHING WHICH I THINK CALIFORNIA 16 COURTS ARE NOT -- THERE'S NOT A LOT OF FAMILIARITY WITH. 17 I LOOKED AT SPECIFIC CONSENT AND RESEARCHED IT ONLINE, THE 18 CLOSEST THING I FOUND WAS THE DEFINITION OF SPECIFIC CONSENT 19 WHEN IT COMES TO ACCOUNTANTS WITH THEIR DUTIES TO THEIR 20 CLIENTS IN DISCLOSING INFORMATION. 21 ETHICAL OBLIGATIONS IS TO PROVIDE THEIR CLIENTS WITH THE 22 SPECIFIC CONSENT THEY'RE RELEASING INFORMATION TO THEM. 23 THERE'S A LOT OF THE WHEN AND THAT DUTY UNDER THEIR WHEN I THINK OF JUST MERE CONSENT, I THINK OF 24 SOMETHING UNDER PENAL CODE SECTION LIKE 632 WHICH IS WHEN YOU 25 CALL YOUR CREDIT CARD COMPANY, YOU GET THAT BLANKET WARNING. 26 YOU KNOW, PLEASE BE ADVISED THIS PHONE CALL IS BEING RECORDED 27 FOR QUALITY ASSURANCES, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. 28 AS CONSENT. THAT'S WHAT I SEE WHEN YOU ADD THAT WORD "SPECIFIC," I THINK IT -- Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 98 1 IT -- THERE'S A -- THAT WORD HAS MEANING. 2 A -- A REASON THEY PUT THAT WORD IN THERE BECAUSE IT MEANS 3 MORE THAN JUST SORT OF ASSENTING TO IT. 4 TELL THESE PEOPLE AND THE STATUTE SAYS THAT. 5 THE GOVERNMENT ENTITY THAT WANTS THAT INFORMATION, YEAH, YOU 6 CAN HAVE IT. 7 AND I THINK THERE'S IT MEANS YOU GOT TO YOU GOT TO TELL NOW, THERE'S EXCEPTIONS TO IT IN THE STATUTE TOO WHEN 8 CERTAIN INVESTIGATIONS ARE GOING ON THEY DON'T HAVE TO. THE 9 CHILD PORNOGRAPHY EXCEPTION, FOR EXAMPLE, BUT THAT IS NOT 10 COVERED IN THIS SITUATION. 11 D.A. MAY ARGUE, WELL, THERE'S -- YOU KNOW, THEY HAD GIVEN 12 CONSENT TO THE PERSON WHO MIGHT BE A UNDERCOVER CALL, YOU 13 KNOW, ON OTHER LINE. 14 CONNECTION ON A JAILHOUSE PHONE AND GOES BLAH, BLAH, BUT THEY 15 DON'T KNOW THAT THE PERSON ON THE OTHER LINE IS AN UNDERCOVER 16 OR AN INFORMANT. 17 THINK THEY'RE TALKING TO THAT PERSON AND THEY'RE CONSENTING TO 18 TAKE TO THAT PERSON. 19 AND I KNOW THE DEFENDANT -- THE SAY SOMEONE CALLS INTO THEIR DRUG BUT THAT -- THAT'S ALSO COVERED. THEY JUST SO I THINK THAT THAT'S WHY I SEE THIS AS A SITUATION 20 WHICH MAYBE THE LEGISLATURE DIDN'T FORESEE -- SOMETIMES THAT 21 HAPPENS -- THAT COVERS MR. GARY'S PHONE CALLS. 22 REASONS I'D ASK THE COURT TO SUPPRESS THE EVIDENCE OF THOSE 23 CALLS, SUPPRESS THE SUBSEQUENT INTERVIEWS OF THE PEOPLE THAT 24 LAW ENFORCEMENT FOUND OUT THROUGH INFORMATION DERIVED FROM 25 THOSE CALLS AS FRUIT OF THE POISONOUS TREE AND I SUBMIT. 26 MR. DOYLE: AND FOR THOSE YOUR HONOR, THE PEOPLE HAVE THREE 27 SEPARATE ARGUMENTS, AND THEY'RE STANDALONE ARGUMENTS. 28 COURT ONLY HAS TO ACCEPT ONE OF THE ARGUMENTS TO DENY THE Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) THE 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 99 1 DEFENDANT'S MOTION. AND I THINK THAT THE ONE THAT MR. DUDLEY 2 HAS THE HARDEST, YOU KNOW, OAR TO CARRY ON THIS PARTICULAR 3 CASE IS THE AUTHORIZED POSSESSOR. 4 CREATIVE ARGUMENT TO SAY THAT HIS CLIENT IS THE AUTHORIZED 5 POSSESSOR OF THE JAIL CALL SYSTEM WHILE HE'S MAKING THE CALL. 6 BUT IT'S EVEN MORE OF A STRETCH TO SAY THE SHERIFF IS NOT. 7 THE SHERIFF IS, OF COURSE, THE AUTHORIZED POSSESSOR OF ITS OWN 8 SYSTEM THAT HE CONTRACTS FOR. 9 CAN ALWAYS SHARE INFORMATION IN ITS OWN SYSTEM WITH A THIRD IT'S A STRETCH IN A AND THE AUTHORIZED POSSESSOR 10 PARTY WITH OR WITHOUT CONSENT OF ANYBODY. 11 OR ANY KIND OF ELECTRONIC INFORMATION, I CAN ALWAYS SHARE THAT 12 WITH A THIRD PARTY IF IT'S MINE AND I POSSESS IT AND IT'S MY 13 DECISION TO SHARE IT WITH SOMEBODY. 14 THIS CASE. 15 IF I OWN A COMPUTER THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE IN THE SHERIFF IS THE OWNER AND AUTHORIZED POSSESSOR OF 16 THE JAIL SYSTEM, AND THEY ARE SHARING WITH THE DISTRICT 17 ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, WHICH IS PERFECTLY COMMON SENSE, WHICH 18 HAPPENED IN THIS CASE, WHICH WILL HAPPEN IN ALL JAIL CASES, 19 WHICH SHOWS WHY JAIL CAUSES WILL NEVER BE IN THE AMBIT OF 20 E.C.P.A. 21 NOTHING TO DO WITH CONSENT. 22 THERE'S NO CONSENT ARGUMENT THAT NEEDS TO BE MADE. 23 AND THAT'S PEOPLE'S ARGUMENT TWO. AND THAT HAS THERE'S NO CONSENT REQUIRED. WITH RESPECT THOUGH TO THE THIRD ARGUMENT, THAT THE 24 JAIL IS A SERVICE PROVIDER, AND I AGREE WITH MR. DUDLEY ON 25 SEVERAL POINTS. 26 PROVIDER. 27 AND I AGREE THAT THE D.A.'S OFFICE IS A GOVERNMENT ENTITY. 28 BUT FOR SOMEBODY TO TALK INTO A SYSTEM AND THEY'RE TELLING YOU I AGREE THAT THE SHERIFF IS A SERVICE I AGREE THAT THE CALLS ARE ELECTRONIC INFORMATION, Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 100 1 THAT EVERYTHING IS BEING RECORDED, YOU'RE -- YOU HAVE THE 2 KNOWLEDGE THAT'S THAT BEING RECORDED, AND IF YOU CONTINUE TO 3 TALK, WHAT ARE YOU NOT -- WHAT -- WHAT, IF NOT CONSENTING, ARE 4 YOU DOING BY CONTINUING TO TALK AFTER BEING -- THAT 5 ADMONITION. 6 CONCLUSION. 7 I JUST -- I JUST CAN'T COME TO ANY OTHER POSSIBLE THE FACT THAT MR. GARY MAY HAVE -- THE STATUTE SAYS 8 WITH THE SPECIFIC CONSENT OF THE INTENDED RECIPIENT. AND 9 MR. DUDLEY'S ARGUMENT PRESUPPOSES THAT THE PEOPLE THAT 10 MR. GARY IS CALLING ARE NECESSARILY THE INTENDED RECIPIENT OF 11 HIS COMMUNICATION. 12 NECESSARILY THE PERSON CALLING. 13 SYSTEM ALSO GETS TO DETERMINE WHO THE INTENDED RECIPIENT IS. 14 AND IF THEY INTEND THAT THEY ALSO RECEIVE THIS ELECTRONIC 15 INFORMATION, WELL THEN THEY, SEPARATE AND APART, HAVE THE 16 ABILITY TO CONSENT TO ITS DIVULGING IT TO A THIRD PARTY, WHICH 17 HAPPENS IN THIS CASE. 18 STATUTE SAYS THAT IT'S THE PERSON WHO CREATES THE ELECTRONIC 19 COMMUNICATION WHOSE INTENT DETERMINES WHO THE INTENDED 20 RECIPIENT IS. 21 SYSTEM ALSO HAS SOME SAY IN WHO THE INTENDED RECIPIENT OF THE 22 ELECTRONIC SYSTEM CREATED IN THEIR DATABASE IS, WHICH I MADE 23 IN CLEAR IN MY POINTS AND THEORIES AS PART OF ARGUMENT THREE, 24 AND IN THAT CASE THE SHERIFF IS CLEARLY, BY DEFENSE EXHIBIT A, 25 SPECIFICALLY CONSENTED TO DIVULGING THAT INFORMATION TO 26 DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, WHICH THEY DID IN THAT CASE. 27 28 WHO GETS TO DETERMINE THE INTENT? NOT THE THE PERSON WHO OWNS THE IT'S NOT MR. GARY. NOTHING IN THE I THINK THAT THAT PERSON WHO PROVIDES THE SO EITHER ARGUMENT TWO OR THREE, I THINK THE PEOPLE PREVAIL. AND SIMPLY BECAUSE THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE OR Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 101 1 THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT MAY HAVE MADE SOME SUBSEQUENT 2 REMEDIAL MEASURES, THAT'S, FIRST OF ALL, NOT ADMISSIBLE UNDER 3 THE EVIDENCE CODE, SUBSEQUENT REMEDIAL MEASURES, BUT IT'S NOT 4 THEIR THINKING ABOUT HOW THAT CONTROLS. 5 IT IS THE COURT'S. AND FINALLY, YOUR HONOR, I THINK THAT JUST THE -- 6 PEOPLE'S 1. IF YOU LOOK AT THE WHOLE STATUTE AND WAY IT WORKS 7 AND JUST THE ABSURDITY OF THE SHERIFF BEING THE AUTHORIZED 8 POSSESSOR AND HAVING TO GO THROUGH THIS WHOLE PROCESS TO GIVE 9 THIS STUFF TO HIMSELF OR TO OTHER LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES, 10 MAKES IT VERY CLEAR THAT E.C.P.A. NEVER WAS NEVER INTENDED TO 11 APPLY TO JAIL CALLS, WHICH I THINK THE LEGISLATIVE HISTORY 12 BEARS OUT. 13 SO I'D ASK THE COURT TO DENY FOR REASONS ONE, TWO, 14 AND THREE OF THE PEOPLE'S RESPONSE GIVEN THAT ONLY ONE OF 15 THOSE REASONS THE COURT NEEDS TO ADOPT. 16 COURT BELIEVES THAT THERE'S SOME KIND OF VIOLATION, I URGE THE 17 COURT NOT TO SUPPRESS IN THIS CASE BECAUSE I THINK, FOR THE 18 REASONS STATED IN MY MOVING PAPERS, THAT IS NOT A MANDATORY 19 REMEDY BUT A DISCRETIONARY REMEDY, AND I THINK A GREAT 20 INJUSTICE WILL BE DONE IN THIS CASE BY THE COURT EXERCISING 21 ITS DISCRETION TO SUPPRESS THESE CALLS. 22 MR. DUDLEY: 23 THE COURT: 24 MR. DUDLEY: AND IN THE EVENT THE JUST A QUICK RESPONSE, YOUR HONOR. YES. AS ONLY AS A QUESTION FOR THE COURT, NOT 25 RESPONDING ARGUMENTATIVELY, BUT IF THE COURT IS GOING TO MAKE 26 A RULING FOR THE PROSECUTION, I WOULD ASKED THE COURT TO SORT 27 OF WALK THROUGH MAYBE WHICH ONE OF THEIR -- 28 THE COURT: Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) ALL THREE. 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 102 1 MR. DUDLEY: 2 THE COURT: 3 MR. DUDLEY: 4 THE COURT: -- EXPLANATIONS. HE'S CORRECT ON ALL THREE GROUNDS. ALL THREE GROUNDS. YEAH. I DON'T THINK THE STATUTE APPLIES 5 AT ALL, BUT I THINK HE'S CORRECT ON ALL THREE GROUNDS. 6 MOTION IS DENIED. SO THE 7 ALL RIGHT. 8 THE EVIDENCE FOR BIND OVER. 9 MR. DOYLE: 10 STATUTE BUT NOT QUITE AS NEW. 11 IN THIS CASE THE EVIDENCE IS OVERWHELMING THAT THE DEFENDANT 12 CAUSED, INDUCED, OR PERSUADED OR ATTEMPTED TO CAUSE, INDUCE, 13 OR PERSUADE BOTH OF THESE YOUNG LADIES TO ENGAGE IN A 14 COMMERCIAL SEX ACT. 15 IT TO HAPPEN, BUT IN THIS CASE IT ACTUALLY DID IN THE EVIDENCE 16 WE HAVE THROUGH 17 THINK HIS INTENT IS PERFECTLY CLEAR. 18 THROUGH THE CALLS THEMSELVES, AND HE INTENDED THAT THEY -- 19 THAT TO MAINTAIN A VIOLATION OF PIMPING AND PANDERING, AND 20 THEN FINALLY WHEN THE DEFENDANT DID SO, THE OTHER PEOPLE WERE 21 UNDERAGE. 22 UNDERAGE BY THE STATUTE, BUT WE HAVE THE TESTIMONY OF 23 THAT THEY WERE, IN FACT, UNDERAGE AS WELL AS INVESTIGATOR 24 PENWELL. 25 26 NOW WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE PETITION OF YES, YOUR HONOR. THAT ALSO IS FAIRLY NEW THE CALCRIM IS 1244 AND I THINK NOT ONLY DID HE ENCOURAGE OR INTEND FOR AND MR. POSNER. WHEN HE ACTED, I HE MADE HIS INTENT CLEAR HE DIDN'T ACTUALLY EVEN HAVE TO KNOW THAT THEY WERE SO I'D URGE THE COURT TO BIND OVER. MR. DUDLEY: YOUR HONOR, I SUBMIT ON COUNT 1. YOUR HONOR -- 27 THE COURT: 28 MR. DUDLEY: Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) YEAH. -- ON COUNT 2, I JUST DIDN'T SEE THE 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 103 1 STRENGTH OF THE EVIDENCE AS FAR AS JANE DOE NUMBER 2. 2 THE COURT: THAT'S -- 3 MR. DUDLEY: 4 THE COURT: -- 5 MR. DOYLE: YES. 6 MR. DUDLEY: I DON'T THINK -- WHILE WE MAY HAVE 7 HEARD -- AND I KNOW WE DID HEAR EVIDENCE THAT MY CLIENT MADE 8 CALLS REGARDING HER, WE DON'T HAVE ANY PHONE CALLS DIRECTLY TO 9 HER. WE KNOW THAT HE MAY HAVE TRIED TO COMMUNICATE STUFF TO 10 HER. EVEN THE TESTIMONY OF JANE DOE NUMBER 1 THIS MORNING 11 WAS -- AND I KNOW THE COURT WAS A LITTLE HESITANT TO BELIEVE 12 SOME OF IT, BUT SOME OF IT WAS, YEAH, I DIDN'T DO THAT OR I 13 DIDN'T FOLLOW THROUGH WITH SOME STUFF. 14 THE COURT: I THINK I INDICATED I -- WHEN I SUGGESTED 15 HER COUNSEL MIGHT WANT TO TALK TO HER, I THINK WHAT I 16 INDICATED WAS THAT I DID NOT FIND CREDIBLE HER REPEATED 17 ANSWERS "I DON'T REMEMBER, I DON'T RECALL." 18 DIDN'T FIND CREDIBLE, NOT SO MUCH -- WELL, I -- I MEAN, THERE 19 MAY BE OTHER DISCRETE ANSWERS SHE GAVE THAT I HAVE QUESTION 20 ABOUT CREDIBILITY, BUT THAT WAS MOSTLY HER REPEATED ANSWERS OF 21 "I DON'T REMEMBER, I DON'T RECALL." 22 MR. DUDLEY: THAT WAS WHAT I BUT I GUESS I WOULD SAY THERE WASN'T 23 MUCH STRENGTH AS TO HER BEING A CONDUIT OF INFORMATION FROM MY 24 CLIENT TO JANE DOE NUMBER 2, AND I THINK THAT'S WHY THAT'S A 25 WEAKER CASE. 26 I REALLY DO THINK THAT. WE DIDN'T HAVE ON THE STAND HERE TO TESTIFY AS TO THAT AS WELL. 27 I'D ASK THE COURT TO NOT BIND OVER ON COUNT 2. 28 1 I JUST SUBMIT. Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) SO WHEREAS, COUNT 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 104 1 THE COURT: THE EVIDENCE MAY NOT BE QUITE AS 2 COMPELLING WITH RESPECT TO COUNT 2, UNDERSTANDING WE DID NOT 3 HEAR DIRECTLY FROM JANE DOE 2, BUT FOR THE PURPOSES OF A 4 DETERMINATION OF PROBABLE CAUSE, WHICH IS THE BURDEN AT THIS 5 POINT, I THINK THE EVIDENCE IS SUFFICIENT WITH RESPECT TO BOTH 6 COUNTS, UNDERSTANDING THAT COUNT 1 IS THE JANE DOE -- IS THE 7 WITNESS WHO DID TESTIFY AND COUNT TWO IS JANE DOE NUMBER 2 IS 8 9 BUT I THINK WITH RESPECT TO EACH COUNT, CONSIDERING THE EVIDENCE AS IT RELATES TO EACH COUNT, THE EVIDENCE IS 10 SUFFICIENT TO ESTABLISH AN OBJECTIVE AND A REASONABLY STRONG 11 SUSPICION ON THE PART OF THE COURT THAT HE COMMITTED EACH OF 12 THOSE SEPARATE CRIMES AS SEPARATELY ALLEGED. 13 TO ANSWER TO EACH. 14 15 IS THERE A ANY REASON NOT TO HAVE AN IMMEDIATE ARRAIGNMENT? 16 MR. DOYLE: 17 MR. DUDLEY: 18 THE COURT: 19 NO, YOUR HONOR. NO, YOUR HONOR. ALL RIGHT. THE COMPLAINT MAY BE SIGNED BY THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND BECOME THE INFORMATION. 20 21 SO HE'LL BE HELD AND YOU MAY ARRAIGN MR. GARY ON WHAT IS NOW THE INFORMATION. 22 MR. DUDLEY: 23 THE COURT: 24 MR. DUDLEY: SHOULD I ARRAIGN MY CLIENT, YOUR HONOR? YEAH, PLEASE. MR. GARY RECEIVED A COPY OF THE 25 COMPLAINT NOW DEEMED THE INFORMATION. HE WOULD ENTER NOT 26 GUILTY PLEAS TO BOTH CHARGES THEREIN. THERE'S NO ALLEGATIONS 27 HE NEEDS TO DENY. 28 THEREON. HIS TRUE NAME AND DATE OF BIRTH APPEAR WE WAIVE FORMAL READING OF THE COMPLAINT. Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) MR. GARY 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 105 1 HAS ALREADY ENTERED, SUBMITTED, LODGED WITH THE COURT AN 2 ADVISEMENT OF RIGHTS FORM, AND WE WOULD JUST REQUEST DUE 3 COURSE DATES. 4 5 THE COURT: MR. GARY, HOW DO YOU PLEAD TO EACH OF THE SEPARATE COUNTS IN WHAT IS NOW THE INFORMATION? 6 THE DEFENDANT: 7 THE COURT: NOT GUILTY. 8 ALL RIGHT. MADAM CLERK, THE DUE COURSE DATES, THE CLERK: SUPERIOR READINESS JULY 22, 8:30 A.M., 9 NOT GUILTY. PLEASE. 10 11 DEPARTMENT 31; JULY TRIAL CALL JULY 29, 9:00 A.M., WITH 11 12 DAYS LEFT; MOTIONS DUE JUNE 27. 13 THE COURT: BAIL REMAIN AS SET AT 500,000. HE IS 14 ORDERED TO APPEAR ON 22 JULY AT 8:30 IN DEPARTMENT 31; 15 29 JULY, 9:00, IN DEPARTMENT 11. 16 HE'LL BE PRODUCED. 17 APPEAR ON 22 JULY AT 8:30 OR 29 JULY AT 9:00, ANY POSTED BAIL 18 WOULD BE FORFEITED AND NEW WARRANT WOULD BE ISSUE FOR HIS 19 ARREST, YOU CAN SAFELY ASSUME WITH NO BAIL OR MUCH HIGHER 20 BAIL. 21 ASSUMING HE'S IN CUSTODY, IF HE'S OUT OF CUSTODY AND HE FAILS TO THE TRAILING CASE, C354022, I THINK THAT'S TRAILING 22 FOR SENTENCING. DOES HE CONTINUE TO WAIVE TIME AND AGREE THAT 23 WE CAN CONTINUE THAT SENTENCING UNTIL THE RESOLUTION OF THE -- 24 OF THIS CASE? 25 MR. DUDLEY: 26 THE COURT: 27 MR. GARY, YOU AGREE TO THAT, THAT WE CAN CONTINUE 28 YES, YOUR HONOR. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. THAT'S THE ORDER. YOUR TRAILING CASE UNTIL THIS CASE IS RESOLVED? Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 106 1 THE DEFENDANT: 2 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. 3 MR. DOYLE: 1275.1 REMAINS IN EFFECT? 4 THE COURT: I'M SORRY. 5 MR. DOYLE: THE 1275.1 REMAINS IN EFFECT? 6 THE COURT: IS THERE ONE IN EFFECT? 7 MR. DOYLE: YES, YOUR HONOR. 8 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. 9 MR. DOYLE: THANK YOU. 10 THE COURT: AND THE APPOINTMENT OF COUNSEL, OF 11 COURSE, IS CONTINUED. YES, SIR. ANYTHING FURTHER? THAT WILL REMAIN IN EFFECT. THANK YOU. 12 MR. DOYLE: 13 MR. DUDLEY: 14 THE COURT: 15 (THE PROCEEDINGS CONCLUDED AT 4:01 P.M.) 16 THANK YOU. THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. THANK YOU. -- O0O -- 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6 1 2 STATE OF CALIFORNIA COUNTY OF SAN DIEGO ) ) ) SS. 3 4 I, ADELA MEDINA, CSR NO. 11964, OFFICIAL 5 REPORTER FOR THE SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF 6 CALIFORNIA, IN AND FOR THE COUNTY OF SAN DIEGO, DO 7 HEREBY CERTIFY: 8 9 10 THAT AS SUCH REPORTER, I REPORTED IN MACHINE SHORTHAND THE PROCEEDINGS HELD IN THE FOREGOING CASE; THAT MY NOTES WERE TRANSCRIBED INTO 11 TYPEWRITING UNDER MY DIRECTION AND THE PROCEEDINGS 12 HELD ON JUNE 10, 2016, CONTAINED WITHIN PAGES 1 13 THROUGH 106, ARE A TRUE AND CORRECTION TRANSCRIPTION. 14 15 16 DATED AT SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA, THIS 20TH DAY OF JUNE, 2016. 17 18 19 20 21 ____________________________ 22 ADELA MEDINA, RPR, CSR 11964 23 24 25 26 27 GOVERNMENT CODE 69954(D): ANY COURT, PARTY, OR PERSON WHO HAS PURCHASED A TRANSCRIPT MAY, WITHOUT PAYING A FURTHER FEE TO THE REPORTER, REPRODUCE A COPY OR PORTION THEREOF AS AN EXHIBIT PURSUANT TO COURT ORDER OR RULE, OR FOR INTERNAL USE, BUT SHALL NOT OTHERWISE PROVIDE OR SELL A COPY OR COPIES TO ANY OTHER PARTY OR PERSON. 28 Electronically signed by Adela Medina (201-356-778-2044) 1934393e-c8de-409e-9e38-dcf5ec4f3ee6