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Rod Rodriguez (00:00):
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Rod Rodriguez (00:36):
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Rod Rodriguez (00:52):
And welcome to military matters. This is a fast take where we talk about the last episode we did and
answer some of your questions, comments, and emails. I'm rod Rodriguez. To help me along with this
episode, I brought back to the show former ranger and Green Beret turned author and investigative
journalist, Jack Murphy. We talked about some of the feedback we received from you all and also about
recent news of a plot to kidnap Michigan governor Gretchen Whitmer. If you're interested in hearing the
whole unedited interview I had with Jack Murphy, go to stripea.com. The video will be right there with
this podcast. So let's kick this off with a quick intro from Jack Murphy.
Jack Murphy (01:54):
My name is Jack Murphy. I am a investigative journalist. I previously served in army special operations
for eight years. Wrote a whole book about it called Murphy's law that you check out if you're interested.
Um, I've reported from Syria, Iraq, the Philippines and elsewhere. And I report primarily about military
affairs.
Rod Rodriguez (02:16):
As I mentioned in the Q Anon episode, Jack Murphy's article for connecting vets about Q Anon and the
special operations forces or SOF community is what inspired me to research the topic of Q Anon in the
military. I wanted to know what inspired him to approach the topic of Q Anon and SOF.
Jack Murphy (02:32):
Oh, well, I, I think what I found most disturbing was how many special operations veterans I've saw a
falling into Q Anon, um, in particular, uh, I'm somebody who I'm close to. I was close to my team
Sergeant in special forces was one of them who went all the way down that rabbit hole. And, um, it's
very concerning and, uh, to speak personally to it, it also undermines your sense of who you are as a
man, because it's sort of like, you know, if Batman is crazy, then Robin starts questioning who he is
because so much of his identity is invested in that. So in this case, we're talking about my, uh, my senior,
my, my, uh, leader, my superior in special forces, somebody who I admired, um, he went down this

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rabbit hole. Uh, so now I, Jack Murphy, have to ask that, well, what does that make me? Who am I, you
know, so I think, uh, yeah, it undermines your sense of reality. When that happens.
Rod Rodriguez (03:35):
One of the comments that we received about our QAnon episode was that our listeners didn't feel like
our guests, Travis view, and Jack Murphy understood Q's writings that they hadn't read them all. And if
they had, they would understand that Q doesn't call for violence. Some even argue that our guests
weren't qualified to comment on QAnon. Let me just say that Travis is extremely familiar with the
QAnon theory and that his podcasts QAnon anonymous is he remarkable resource to learn more about
the QAnon conspiracy theory or belief, whatever you want to call it. He's also written extensively on the
subject for the Washington post. As for Jack,
Jack Murphy (04:10):
I have read some of the cute posts. So though I'll readily admit, I have not read all of them. I do not
follow it religiously. I've read enough that I see a complete lack of any factual basis in what's being
posted. What I see posted is sort of a form of hypnotism, a very broad statements that allow the reader
to project, whatever they like into it. And that's part of the, the fun and the allure of QAnon for the
people who follow it is that they follow the breadcrumbs that they call it, they're baking the loads. So
they're taking these breadcrumbs that Q posts, and then, you know, trying to work out the puzzle in
their own mind. It's a sort of a participatory sort of thing. It's not like a traditional cult where you're just
there in receive mode. So that's, that's my perception of that.
Jack Murphy (04:54):
I think to say, it's nonviolent at this moment, that's largely accurate. Although there have been a couple
murders associated with Q Anon people, largely the movement itself has not been violent thus far. They
are, they're not out in the streets, killing people. And probably most of them don't want to do that.
However, they are espousing an ideology, a belief system that says there's a fifth column in the United
States government, that there are these deep state cannibalistic pedophiles who are ritualistically
abusing children and doing all these nefarious things. And they are looking forward to a moment that
they called the storm, that the storm is coming, that all of these bad, bad, bad people are going to be
rounded up, notionally, nominally arrested and imprisoned, maybe executed. We don't really really
know. So to say that there's no violent aspect of Q Anon is really not accurate.
Jack Murphy (05:51):
They're there, there's this messianic fervor around Q Anon. That's very disturbing. My concern guess you
could say is that yes, while they're not out in the streets killing people right now, I acknowledge that it is
that at some point, people who truly believe this conspiracy theory might get tired of waiting for the
storm. What happens when the storm doesn't come? And if you legitimately believe that there are
cannibals and pedophiles running our government, why would you not pick up a gun and start shooting
these people or that you suspect, right? Why would you not do that? It, so this is the concern is what is
the next step? Where's this going to go from here
Rod Rodriguez (06:33):
Just a few days after our Q Anon episode premiered a story broke about a foiled plot to kidnap Michigan
governor Gretchen Whitmer involving a militia group and two former Marines. Now, as of this recording,
there is zero evidence to link the militia group in question, or the accused Marines to Q Anon. In fact,

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some early reports have them possibly linked to the Boogaloo boys, which is a completely different thing
and different set of ideology. We're not going to get into right now, but this plot to kidnap a governor
involving veterans kind of supports my notion that we're a vulnerable group to extremists of any
leaning.
Jack Murphy (07:05):
Yeah, well, yeah. Again, it's a, it's an incredibly complex issue and there's all sorts of different extremists.
Um, and you know, I believe there's the director of the FBI recently said that it's the right wing elements,
the extremist right wing elements who are the most dangerous, which I think is accurate right at this
moment. Um, however, there are also a lot of fly by night experts out there. People who should know
better or should be credible, but they, they put out all kinds of false information about essentially
exaggerating a lot of these threats. Um, as far as why it's a national security threat. I mean, in this case,
we are talking about a fifth column, a deviant fifth column inside the chain of command be they Q Anon
neo-Nazis, um, uh, communists it. There are these people out there that we've seen in recent years who
have a deviant ideology, a deviant agenda, um, that is not in any way congruent with American values or
the American government.
Jack Murphy (08:05):
Um, and when you have those people who have infiltrated into the special operations community, um,
who could potentially be in charge of our nuclear security, uh, other very important critical positions in
the U S military, that's absolutely a national security threat, um, or, or in the conventional military,
everyday infantry men, for that, for example, um, learning the skills to conduct small unit tactics, um,
eh, and, and then getting recruited into an extremist organization and bringing that training to them.
There's definitely a threat there, uh, that, that this military training ingratiates itself into, uh, into these
networks. And I even spoke to a woman who was a, she's a former Neo Nazi. She has given, it gave all
that up a long time. She's no longer interested in any of that nonsense. Um, I've talked to her on the
phone and she told me that she grew up in a military community and she was involved in the movement
since about the age of 16. And there were always military people involved in it. Uh, and she said, you
know, what's especially concerning is that you have a, uh, let's say basic training platoon, a bunch of
young men who were away from home for the first time. And she said, if you have just one guy in that
basic training platoon who is a Neo Nazi or a white supremacist, and they're just a little bit charismatic,
it's a fertile ground to recruit new members into the movement.
Rod Rodriguez (09:31):
I want to make it clear that I am not saying Q Anon is racially motivated. What I will say is that racists
have a way of hijacking just about any cause movement or ideology. Another aspect of racism is like Jack
said, it has a virulence to it. It's infectious. And as it spreads, it picks and chooses what it wants from any
belief system to reinforce itself. So it's not surprising to me to see cross sections of QAnon and racists,
creating vocal groups. Now I'm not going to go into all of the nitty gritty details. Folks pointed out to me
about what they thought we got wrong about Q Anon. I would, if there was a fact we got wrong, but
when it comes to Q and Q Anon, there's really no concrete facts. Everything is symbolic or hidden, and
it's all up to interpretation. But what I walked away with from our last episode was a question, what is it
about veterans and service members that makes them so vulnerable to extremism? And I'm not talking
about violent extremism, per se. I'm talking about political extremes, ideological extremes, the
foundation for violent extremism. Jack Murphy has a theory that joining the military is kind of like

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entering another world. And that the person you were when you joined, kind of goes into a state of
dormancy.
Jack Murphy (10:44):
Uh, and I think that happens to all of us, that our minds are loaded into a sort of time capsule, where
we're putting a hypersleep we're in stasis for however long we're in the military. And then when we get
out, we can't relate to people. Uh, we don't understand people. It's like, it's like, you know, you've just
arrived on this alien planet and you, you don't know what to do, or how you fit into the fabric of society.
What it is is that we're bringing the global war on terror home to the United States so that we, as
veterans can maintain our relevancy because we do not have that or any relevancy. We have that failure
to adapt that failure to transition into regular life and find that something else that we can do some,
some other way that we can contribute to society. So our only relevance is as the guy with the gun.
Rod Rodriguez (11:33):
So I have this theory that I've shopped around for a couple of years. Now, my theory is based on a fear
that the pendulum will swing the other way in regards to our country's adoration and respect for
veterans that enough negativity and bad press can change us from assets to liabilities. I know this is a
dark and gloomy theory, but it's one that worries me. Some vets feel there's already a stigma associated
with being a veteran, the stigma that we're damaged, we all have PTSD and we're all on psych drugs. I
don't think that stigma is very widespread or at least folks for the most part, don't buy into it. But
recruiting vets and service members into extremist organizations is a good way for the military
community as a whole to gain unwanted reputations and stigmas
Jack Murphy (12:16):
Long story short. Yeah, I think so. Um, you know, in poll, after poll Americans, you know, love the
military, they've loved veterans, and I don't think that's going to change necessarily anytime soon, but
what we're seeing, uh, is a persistent politicization of veterans and veterans themselves politicizing
themselves, um, using that as political platforms to run on or using it to advance some other, uh, social
or political agenda, they use their veteran status as their credibility to advance some sort of a political
agenda or social agenda. And some of those agendas are nonviolent and it's that person's right to
express themselves politically in that way, others are a bit more nefarious. People who belong to militia
movements, Neo Nazi movements, um, could be even far leftist movements. And I, I think that, yeah,
it's, the public could come to see us in a different light. And if I'm correct in that there is going to be a
increase in political violence, veterans expressing political violence on the streets of America. And I
shudder to think of how bad that could get. But if we do go down that road, yes, I think the public will
come to see us in a very different light.
Rod Rodriguez (13:30):
The point of our Q Anon episode, wasn't to discuss the validity of the Q Anon theory, but to discuss its
effect on veterans and service members. I want to make it clear belief or consideration in Q Anon,
doesn't make you a bad person, a stupid person or anything like that. I draw the line at violence, that's
it. I worry that groups interested in violence are going to see our military community as a resource,
instead of a deterrent, we already have enough to worry about: service members, disappearing and
dying on military bases COVID-19 and suicide rates. And like Jack mentioned, the politicization of our
military by both sides of the aisle has created tension in the ranks that shouldn't be there. Now. I'm not
claiming to have the inside track on anything. And I'm not going to say that conspiracies don't happen. I

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will say, without a doubt that our military community, to include veterans service members and their
families, are a fierce, talented, and resourceful bunch of people that will do anything to protect the
freedoms we all enjoy
Rod Rodriguez (14:37):
with that said no matter what you believe or think there's one way that I know of that you can make a
difference in your world, in your life and in mine vote, make sure you've registered and actually get out
there and vote. I'm not endorsing anyone get educated on the issues that matter to you and make a
decision about to whom you'll cast your ballot for that's it.
Rod Rodriguez (14:46):
folks subscribe to stars and stripes use promo code podcast, get 50% off your digital. That's 50% off your
digital subscription. And as always, military matters is free to subscribe to available wherever you listen
to your favorite podcast. And it's also available to download and stream from stripes.com. I'm rod
Rodriguez. I'll see you at the next episode.

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